# Sticky  Your Personal Property Investments & The UAE Real Estate Market



## Dubai-Lover

actually there have been so many threads about specific questions on specific properties like towers.

in my opinion it has become too much and a lot of double threads have been created.


this is why i go for a new sticky thread in which everybody is welcomed to ask our members about their views on specific property, private investment ambitions and the property market in general.


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## arfie

*Dubai property rises are steady now*

It seems to me over the last 6 months or so Dubai property prices are pretty steady. I think the days where people made 30% premium quickly are long gone. The max increase in the last 6 months seems to have been about 10% and that on only good projects. What is the price per sq ft in dhirams for apartments in the Marina and JLT at the moment ? 

Are the signs of prices rises still good for those out there in Dubai at the moment ?


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## dubaiflo

Well Horizon Tower has no about 860 Dirhams / 1 sqft.
But it is not thaaaat expensive , and of course everything depends on position and availability...!


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## Kamal (UK)

Given that with the new Dubai Waterfront project there will never be a shortage of land or accomodation surely the market will now be saturated with developments. My view-you will only ever find appreciation of value of property at inflationary figure (ie how much more a building is costing to build, given labour rates and material rates). The "X factor" will be location and reputation of certain devlopments which will be "must haves" such as the Palm and the World...

Its a pretty tall order to find up to 500k people (allowing for 2 people per household and say another 1 million new units of housing) willing to either buy holiday homes or to move to Dubai and secure large income jobs)-this is unless the country becomes kind to people with "funny money" and therefore becomes an undesirable place to live anyway...I for one am really disappointed that the new scheme has been announced when so much property is still on the market today..


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## Dubai_Steve

Kamal, remember that it will be at least 5 years before the waterfront phase 1 is complete. By that time it will be a more popular place with the western world and DubailLand will be going strong. So prices will continue to rise as more and more come in. (Build it and they will come) Where else can you buy an apartment overlooking a marina and in walking distance to beautiful beaches for less than 200,000 US $ Price will be rising in 2005 and onwards for sure.


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## Kamal (UK)

I went though the same process in the late 90s when I worked for a telecomms company who are a provdier of bandwidth-they used the same formula and are now almost worthless..ie they put more fiber in the ground then anyone thought people would need for 5-10 years and then allowed even more room for expansion-providing almost indefinate bandwidth. The idea was that the more they provided-the more people would want-this is known as silicon economics (as per silicon chip). The problem is that they didnt consider the fundamentals-ie who was actually going to need all this bandwidth-i.e what was the "killer application" 

For Dubai the "killer ap" will be industry that will provide skilled and highly paid jobs-I know of no country that is weathy on the back of tourism (which usually provides crappy wages for majortity of workforce for majority of time).

Hats off to Dubai for bringing in Biotech/Telcoms/IT initiatives into play but I cannot find any stats that show the performance of industry (ie demographics of workforce, demand etc). So there is a choice-make Dubai a partyland or provide it with sound economic fundamentals-not sure if you can do both...


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## arfie

Is the dubai property market still busy out there ? I hear from Real Estates here in the UK that the market has been pretty slow for the past 3 months. One of the major reasons for this is that its pretty expensive to buy in Dubai now. At least 100k for even a 1 bed and big deposits are required and people in the UK dont have that kind of money.

Just wondering is it the same out there in dubai is the market slowing ?


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## juiced

It could be slowing...buyers are expected to put down a 10% deposit + premium all in one go, and apart from your wealthy investor who has one house for each day of the week not many ordinary buyers can afford to do that. Maybe when companies start financing the premiums the market will pick up


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## Dubai_Steve

To me, Dubai seems a sound investment:

Take a 1 bed apartment (eg. Bonnington Towers, JL)
85,000 UKP + 6,000 UKP Furniture = 91,000
Renatal income after expenses approx. 15,000 UKP (assuming 70% occupancy)
That means 17.6% return on investment per year! Which will pay of a 100% mortgage (obtained by personal loan + Dubai 80% mortgage) + give you an income which you can use as a deposit on your next property investment!

(I have been doing this and now own 7 properties in only 2 years - starting with no money - ie. deposits obtained from personal loans)

(in th UK youd be luck to get 6% in a depreciating market)

Buy off plan and you can also expect +Min 30% increase in value by completion time.

Remember that the population of Dubai is increased at 21% last year. Demand will soon outstrip supply. The waterfront development is good as it will make Dubai a more desirable place to live.

Where would you prefer to live ? (cloudy smelly bognor regis or the futuristic luxury sunny resort of Dubai)


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## juiced

Oh that's a tough one.. I think I'll take the ex-council flat in Bognor..


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## ahmedr

> Remember that the population of Dubai is increased at 21% last year.


I was imagining a big number but that just blows my mind, thats almost as fast as Vegas grows if not more! Is that number official?


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## Dubai_Steve

Some quotes from websites on Dubai's population

"The Ministry of Economic Planning projects that the population of Dubai will grow to two million residents by 2010, from 1.2 million currently, placing pressure on the real estate market to accommodate the requirements of the population. Furthermore, the impending ratification of real estate ownership laws should contribute significantly to the growth in demand for real estate."

"Dubai is growing very fast. Dubai's population, which is 1.4 million now, is expected to increase up to 3.5 million by 2020. That means it will almost triple." - Prof. Dr. Ing. Wolfgang Meyer 

"The phenomenal growth in the population of Dubai, which expanded by 25% between 1995 and 2000 alone to 826,387, is one of the factors that explains the emirates 10% plus annual growth in GDP over the past decade. For an expanding population creates economic growth just by expanding."


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## Krazy

The Al Fattan Marina Towers are being offered with a 10 per cent down payment and easy instalment plans at the Dubai Property Investment Exhibition this week.


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## Kamal (UK)

Dubai_Steve said:


> To me, Dubai seems a sound investment:
> 
> Take a 1 bed apartment (eg. Bonnington Towers, JL)
> 85,000 UKP + 6,000 UKP Furniture = 91,000
> Renatal income after expenses approx. 15,000 UKP (assuming 70% occupancy)
> That means 17.6% return on investment per year! )


According to all the agents I have spoken to in Dubai (around 7 or 8) the rents in Dubai are currently quoted at 8%-10% per annum of capital value. Remove the sevice charge at 4-8dhs per sq foot and you are down to around 6% which is the interest rate of the mortgage-so no capital is being paid back. This could yeild worsen as supply rises...(dependant on demand-see below)



Dubai_Steve said:


> Buy off plan and you can also expect +Min 30% increase in value by completion time.


- There are plenty of apartments for sale in developments that are nearing completion so why will people pay a premium? If anything the developer may drop prices to get rid of these remaining units and then move on



Dubai_Steve said:


> Remember that the population of Dubai is increased at 21% last year. Demand will soon outstrip supply.


Are these builders/taxi drivers/domestics? or are they people who will be able to afford the rents? No one seems to have the answer. This 21% is likely to be the builders who are building the apartments and developments! 




Dubai_Steve said:


> The waterfront development is good as it will make Dubai a more desirable place to live.
> 
> Where would you prefer to live ? (cloudy smelly bognor regis or the futuristic luxury sunny resort of Dubai)


I concede on this-but find me an employer willing to pay me the salary I need to take the risk to move and gain a better life than I do in London-I am finding this a tough call!


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## arfie

I agree with Kamal the rental yield will be around 7% at best. Also if your buying properties at a premium then obvuously the rental yield will be less. 

I really think its going to be difficult for Dubai to fill these apartments I can see alot of them being left empty. Also many people have bought to rent out and if they cant rent them out I see them trying to sell quickly. 

Its a pretty uncertain market at the moment.


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## Dubai_Steve

7% rental yield (after costs) is correct if renting long term. However, if you are renting as holiday lets (eg. 1 week at a time to UK couples etc.) then rental yield will be around 15% That is why I bought Marina Height Tower as it is more suitable as a holiday let being walking distance to the beaches etc. Dont think I would buy at the lakes etc. as I am uncertain if this has holiday letting potential before DubaiLand is finished. 

Remember that target is 40Million tourists per year - many of them will want cheaper accomataion than the luxry hotels can offer - thats where apartments come in - but only in certain 'holiday' locations.

Re: +30% increase - I bought my apartment at approx. 100,000 UKP - With rental yields of 15% it is well worth 130,000 to any investor. So I could sell it at 30% premium once complete. I also expect it to doouble in value to 200,000 at least when Marina, Palm and DubaiLand are complete. Although I do not plan to sell as I would prefer to pay of the 100,000 quickly and retire on the 15,000 per year income.

Compare this possibly tax free income to that of a comparable investment in say Bulgaria (another hotspot) where a 50,000 aparmtnet will only give you 4 000 to 5000 per year income.


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## arfie

I think Jumeria Lakes will be similar to Holiday Lets as in the Marina. Jumeria Lakes is also walking distance to the beach. I think when all complete Jumeria Lakes will be on par with the marina. You get better value for money in the Jumeria Lakes. 

I think its very unlikely you'd be able to let out apartments to tourists week in and out also alot of hassle that way.


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## Dubai_Steve

70% occupancy at 450 per week = 16380
Can then pass the hassle to an agency at 15% (who also do cleaning between lets) - so net income is up to 14,000 per annum at 70% occupancy

Dont think Jumeira lakes is walking distance to beach (how can you cross Sheik Zayed Road without getting squashed!)


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## arfie

Jumeria Lakes is 5 minutes from the Marina. Alot of the people who are professional real estate believe the Jumeria Lakes will be a better place than the Marina in terms of living. 

In the Marina in the evening its going to be pitch black when the sun goes down. 

Also I dont think your gonna get 450 a week rent. Do you have a 2 bedroom or a 3 bedroom apartment ?


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## Dubai_Steve

Below is a quote from 'The Guardian' from March 04, which mentions that anticipated rental return for a 1 bed (golf view) is 300 - 400 per week. Since my apartment is higher up and with sea view and rents have since increased in Dubai I can expext 400 - 450 rent per week for my 1 bed (2 bed with pullout sofa)

"What your money could buy

For a remarkably low £65,000 you can get a one- bedroom apartment on one of the lower levels of the Marina Heights tower, just inland from Dubai's beaches. This is the latest property from local developer Saeed, and for £170,000 you get a two- bedroom flat on about the tenth storey, with spectacular views over the coastal strip. 

Apartments can be used as longer-term business lets but would almost certainly produce more income as traditional holiday flats. The complex has pools, saunas, squash courts, gyms and restaurants, so expect high service charges, which should be checked before purchase.

Set aside 5 per cent as a contingency for fees when you buy, although there are no local taxes. Anticipated rental return is £300-£400 a week for the smaller flat, and up to £600 a week for the larger one. The holiday season is literally year-round, but August bookings in Dubai are slow because of the extreme heat. Rental agencies will charge up to 20 per cent for manage-ment and bookings in your absence."


ps. why do you think the marina will be pitch black as opposed to the Lakes?


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## Dubai_Steve

yes, my advice is to find someway to buy something now before construction is complete. I would guess at another 20-25% increase around then (2006-2007), followed by a slower increase rate of 1.5% per month as people start to buy and sell, pushing the prices up each time. Later after another 2 years I would expect another big increase jump of 25% as DubaiLand and Atlantis etc. get operational and well advertised. Then prices should level off at to the global market rate. Would guess at 100% increase in next 7 years.

Note, This is all in my opinion only.


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## ChrisO

*Three important factors*

You have to keep three things in mind:

1) law situation still not 100% clear
2) buildings are not completed
3) Dubai is one big construction site (at least for the projects we are talking about)

Those three factors are knock out criteria for many prospective buyers. Once those are out of the way, there will be a whole new wave of buyers coming into the market. 

There are people who have enough money but they would never buy off plan. They prefer to wait until they can see and feel it. 

On the other hand many people with a more limited financial background would never buy into a market without clear a law situation. This should be dealt with this year.

Then most people hate noise and there will be noise and chaos for the next 2-3 years at least until the larger projects are finished.

I am expecting a slow but steady increase in prices until rental yields are down to international standards.


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## Dubai_Steve

ChrisO, so in other words if you want to make some money buy now before points 1,2 and 3 have been dealt with. ie. before the mass of non risk takers enter the market and push prices up. Surely this would create a surge in prices rises rather than a slow stready increase as it seems many of the major project will be complete around the same time.


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## Imre

If 1, 2 ,3 points will ok , coming to Dubai Investment Funds too, and come a big boom on the market , maybe 150-200 % incr.. 
(Reality Investmens Founds and other )


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## ebby

I think one of the major contributors to a booming property market, which you guys have missed out, is the increasing number of Banks who are prepared to give out mortgages for these developments.


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## ChrisO

*Funds*

I just got info on an investment fund financing one of the JLT projects. The timeframe is 3.5 years, so its only financing the construction phase until all apts. are sold.

Will post more info on that one as soon as I get it.

Ebby, banks will increase their commitment to the market once the law situation is clear.


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## ChrisO

*Dubai Star (JLT plot L2)*

The project is called "Dubai Star" located on plot L2 at JLT. A 45 story tower.

More info on the website: http://www.ac-invest.com/


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## Kamal (UK)

The banks have onerous terms-

HSBC- very limited in the developments that it will fund
30% downpayment
Repayment over 15 years. 
Very strong requirements from borrower regarding financial background (almost too onerous)

They are really taking very little risk and the market is far from competitive. Compare this to UK where they are willing to provide any loan size to people who can put a 20% deposit down.


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## Dubai_Steve

I have also found that the banks are very strict in lending criteria. I think property would sell much better in Dubai if this matched international standards. The worst thing is that there seems to be very little Buy to Let mortages available in Dubai and will not take rental income into account ie. in the UK only 15% is required with no proof of income as long as the rental assesment shows that rent will pay 133% of mortgage interest payment. Unless Dubai follows suit they will not have very good sustained international interest.


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## Krazy

*Resale and Rental show next month*

Dubai : The Dubai Resale and Rental Property Show is being launched by Dubai Shows Ltd.

This new event has been scheduled to be held on March 24 and 25.

The Government of Dubai's new law enabling foreigners to own or lease property has led to a huge number of developers offering properties "off-plan" at prices to suit all budgets.

Many of these properties are nearing completion, which will result in a huge demand from the public wishing to buy properties in the secondary markets and move in immediately.

Those who prefer to rent will also have a larger choice in the coming months.

This event, being supported by Gulf News, Dubai Eye 103.8 and InTV, will enable buyers and renters to meet a large number of leading real estate agents, brokers and lenders exhibiting under one roof.

Mike Bridge, regional sales director for Dubai Shows, said: "The market here in the UAE is changing from 'off plan' to corporations and individuals now keen to sell onto the secondary market. Also many buyers who work here don't wish to wait several years for their home to be built and this is creating a strong resale market."

He said the event had been scheduled to benefit from the large numbers of overseas investors and buyers expected to be in town for the Dubai World Cup.


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## SamSam

Well this is god to hear:

http://www.ameinfo.com/cgi-bin/cms/page.cgi?g=Detailed/53307.html&d=1

"Premiums decline on new property launches"


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## Krazy

Hope we still get to see all the towers which have been announced but havent started construction yet.


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## ebby

Let's not forget that the banks in Dubai are lending in spite the fact that there is no federal law in place for foreign ownership, nor is there a proper legal framework for repossession. In the UK, the law is well defined and well enforced, so the banks should be falling over themselves to give out mortgages, since they have all the legal safeguards they need.

The fact that these highly conservative institutions are prepared to take financial risk of this magnitude is an excellent sign for the future of Dubai
property market.


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## Krazy

I guess they all trust Shk Mohammed to the fullest.


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## Kamal (UK)

ebby said:


> Let's not forget that the banks in Dubai are lending in spite the fact that there is no federal law in place for foreign ownership, nor is there a proper legal framework for repossession. In the UK, the law is well defined and well enforced, so the banks should be falling over themselves to give out mortgages, since they have all the legal safeguards they need.
> 
> The fact that these highly conservative institutions are prepared to take financial risk of this magnitude is an excellent sign for the future of Dubai
> property market.


Risk-what risk! Not many people are going to walk away after putting down a 30% deposit and I am sure local courts will be happy to allow the local banks the right to repossess the property


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## juiced

Jumeirah Village was sold out in 24hours (over 7000 villas) to mostly speculators. If you wanted to buy, you had to go and hand in the deposit for whatever property you want (3 bed villa, apartment, etc) but you wouldn't get to see any floorplans and you couldn't even look at a masterplan so you could choose the plot! Instead they would call you later and tell you your plot number :bash:
Now tell me, would anybody that was intending to live in that property buy in such conditions??


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## arfie

I had the same expeirence. I was being sold the EXECUTIVE TOWER in Jumeriah Lake Towers by a company when I asked for the floor plans and design of building they could not show me as they home builders who are the designers have not printed any info on it yet.


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## NickDubai

What are your plans to finance your purchase? Have you got mortgage arranged? Who is the banks to approach as I see certain banks are only lending to certain developments. Will this change soon?


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## ebby

More than Dh30 billion worth of property is projected to be released in the Dubai market in the next 3 years. While the property sector sold Dh7 billion worth property, Dh4 billion was financed through mortgage channel. Currently, the market has premium levels ranging from 10 to 30 per cent.

http://www.albawaba.com/en/countries/UAE/180202
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...ary/business_February347.xml&section=business


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## Nazim

where will the Dubai resale & Rental Property Show be held???
Will there be exhibitors of NEW projects there as well??

Do you think this is a show visiting for someone interested in buying an apartment??


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## ebby

Good news for investors in Dubai Marina and the Palm:

*Dubai Municipality to complete new road network at a 
cost of Dhs611 million*
...
.... one of the new interchanges would be built in Al Safouh 
Road consisting of fly-overs, tunnels and ring roads that allow
free traffic flow around the Dubai Pearl project. This project alone 
will cost Dhs178 million 
and is expected to be over by February 2006. 
The second interchange would be located between the
*Interchange No.4* (Police Academy Interchange) and 
*Interchange No.5* (Dubai Marina Interchange) on Sheikh Zayed Road. 

http://www.ameinfo.com/news/Detailed/54370.html


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## hg3z15aa_1

i want to ask all hwo nows much about dubai. pleas...

i want an apartment in dubai, so what is the best homesides to find apartments or villas in dubai or sharjah.


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## ebby

Nazim said:


> where will the Dubai resale & Rental Property Show be held???
> Will there be exhibitors of NEW projects there as well??
> 
> Do you think this is a show visiting for someone interested in buying an apartment??


Hi Nazim,
There is a "Home Owner Dubai" exhibition at the Madinat Arena in
the Madinat Jumeirah complex. Opened Feb 26th, for a duration of 3 days.
There are showcases of new properties from various developers. 
For more details check out this link:

http://www.strategiy.com/inews.asp?id=20050226001727


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## ebby

UAE real estate market set to grow manifold

*The real estate market in the UAE is set to witness an enormous growth rate in the next seven years and will touch an estimated AED230 billion-mark (US63 billion dollar) in value.*

Dr. Mohammed Raheef Hakmi, Chairman, Armada Group. 
This is well above the total value of the real estate market achieved over the last two decades. 

"This growth will be made possible on the back of several regional and global factors. *The chief among these factors will be the sustained uptrend in current international oil prices * which lead to the availability of surplus funds especially with the GCC governments. These funds are mostly invested in government-sponsored development projects including infrastructure. *Real estate one of the key areas these funds ultimately are directed at*," according to Dr Mohammed Raheef Hakmi, Chairman, Armada Group, leading real estate investors in the UAE. 

http://www.ameinfo.com/news/Detailed/54643.html


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## Imre

I am interested in properties prices in Dubai.
Now , in Dubai Marina and Jumeirah Lake Towers , what about the prices of sq feet?


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## Krazy

*Dubai crackdown on con-artists*

Dubai is taking strong measures against con-artists hoping to exploit interest in the booming property market, and has jailed one scammer. Briton Maz Akhtar tricked investors by offering them fictitious properties in a Dubai investment project, the Seven Wonders of the World. Akhtar also sold non-existent European property, through his company HK Inversiones.


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## DarkBlueBoss

i am not very sure how dubai is moving, i mean, living here is pretty cool, cause u know the whole is watching and admiring dubai for what is it doing, however, lets look at this way, 
I decide to buy a house (ie. $1 million) as an investment, i put a down payment , get approved get the house
wait a month of 2 
sellf it for lets a profit of 20% ( ie $1.2 million) , thats the average profit range here in dubai for investment, assuming i bought the villa when it was first annouced, 

i pay the bank back, i get my 200,000 profit, and everyone is happy, 

however, the person who bought the villa from me, is gonna do the same, hoping for maybe selling parive of 1.4 million, assuming he does so, he is happy, bank is happy, but the cycle repeats it self , we are gonna each a limit (ie $2 million) , person X has put dont a huge downpayment, his villa is not selling, bank is asking for its money, X doesnt have it, X is forced out, Bank takes over, however, bank cannot use the villa cause no one wants it, (too expensive) , 
bank is left with 2 million dollar villa that is useless, 
now multiply this by the thousands and thousands of villa's apartments, and projects in dubai, this will eventually, cause an economic crash, the whole economy will crash if banks go bankrupt, and i am afraid this might happen, hoping that it wont, however, something has to be done. . . .


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## Krazy

*Dubai R&R Show on March 24*

3 March 2005

DUBAI — Dubai Shows, a property exhibition company, has announced an exhibition called 'Dubai R&R — The Resale and Rental Show', to address the concerns regarding resale and rental market in Dubai.

It is the UAE's first exhibition dedicated to resale and rental properties and will offer local developers and estate agents a unique opportunity to showcase their portfolios under one roof.

The Dubai R&R Show will be held at the Crowne Plaza Hotel on March 24 and 25.

Mike Bridge, regional sales director of Dubai Shows, emphasised that the exhibition was designed to make a difference to Dubai's property rental market, as well as its newly emerging freehold resale market.

He said: “The exhibitors participating in Dubai R&R will have three benefits, they can sell their freehold properties, lease out their rental properties, or procure properties from landlords and investors.’’

He confirmed that several property agents like Asteco, Pegasus, Landmark, Dubai Land, Paradise, Vista and City Tower are participating in the event.


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## Krazy

*Dubai to host UAE's first resale and rental show*

Dubai : The UAE's first exhibition dedicated to resale and rental properties will be held in Dubai.

Property exhibition company Dubai Shows has announced Dubai R&R, the resale and rental show, will offer local developers and estate agents an opportunity to showcase their portfolios under one roof.

"The exhibitors participating in Dubai R&R will have three benefits: they can sell freehold properties, lease out rental properties, or procure properties from landlords and investors in an interactive and innovative fashion," Regional Sales Director of Dubai Shows, Mike Bridge, said.

"As many residents now make decisions browsing through realty classified advertisements, this is a forum to make it all come alive," he said.

He said several top companies like Asteco, Pegasus, Landmark, Dubai Land, Paradise, Vista and City Tower will attend the event.

Jane Woods, Manager of Asteco, said: "We understand only too well that in a busy city like Dubai, residents don't always have the time to scour the market and study the options available to them before they make a decision to move house. We will be showing ways in which Asteco can assist both the tenant and the landlord with various services and products. For Asteco, the event is an obvious and comprehensive location to reach people who are interested in property in Dubai."

The Dubai R&R Show will be held at the Crowne Plaza Hotel on March 24 and 25 to maximise convenience for visitors. The official media sponsors of the event are Gulf News, Dubai Eye and IN TV.


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## ebby

DarkBlueBoss said:


> i am not very sure how dubai is moving, i mean, living here is pretty cool, cause u know the whole is watching and admiring dubai for what is it doing, however, lets look at this way,
> I decide to buy a house (ie. $1 million) as an investment, i put a down payment , get approved get the house
> wait a month of 2
> sellf it for lets a profit of 20% ( ie $1.2 million) , thats the average profit range here in dubai for investment, assuming i bought the villa when it was first annouced,
> 
> i pay the bank back, i get my 200,000 profit, and everyone is happy,
> 
> however, the person who bought the villa from me, is gonna do the same, hoping for maybe selling parive of 1.4 million, assuming he does so, he is happy, bank is happy, but the cycle repeats it self , we are gonna each a limit (ie $2 million) , person X has put dont a huge downpayment, his villa is not selling, bank is asking for its money, X doesnt have it, X is forced out, Bank takes over, however, bank cannot use the villa cause no one wants it, (too expensive) ,
> bank is left with 2 million dollar villa that is useless,
> now multiply this by the thousands and thousands of villa's apartments, and projects in dubai, this will eventually, cause an economic crash, the whole economy will crash if banks go bankrupt, and i am afraid this might happen, hoping that it wont, however, something has to be done. . . .


What you have described is what's called speculation, but you're assuming
everyone buys to sell in the short term for a quick profit. You are also
assuming that the banks lend without checking their client's
ability to pay back their loan. This is not the case.
But your main point about the danger of speculation is valid, and now the major developers are trying to attract long term investors and make it
tougher for the speculators. Check out this link:

http://www.ameinfo.com/news/Detailed/54642.html


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## soennecken

The repayment structure here in Dubai limits speculation because you have to pay a lot of money up front and wait a long time to get a return, because, realistically to sell on for a profit you have to wait until close to completion. An investor will not buy "off plan" from you at a 20% premium when he can buy direct from the developer cheaper. Of course this is the Middle East and normal investment guidelines are sometimes ignored due to the high amount of expendable funds held by certain individuals. These people however tend to buy the whole building not individual apartments. There will come a time when supply exceeds demand and some people may be left with apartments they cannot sell for the profit they had hoped. In the next few years a lot of new buildings will be completed and I think that the market will become more active with buyers purchasing completed apartments for their own use and this will soften the speculation further. The rule is if you are an individual, do not buy anything you cannot afford to keep! :bash: 
At the moment though the growth of Dubai is being limited by the lack of accomodation. This I think, is destined to continue for some time yet.


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## den2dxb

All I want is the opportunity to buy something from the developer, LOL. "Sold out in 30 hrs". Perhaps, then, I find out some guy in Taif bought three floors! Plus, another from Kuwait, buying 10 apts, etc.

Understand, I'm a strong advocat of what's happening in Dubai. I make people sick, because I'm always "selling" it! Dubai this-Dubai that. But, this whole "right hand feeding the left" is way too obvious. There are plenty of people wanting to buy, and make Dubai there home. Like me! But I have to go search for some idiot who's trying to sell a property that is way over inflated! I mean...c'mon now.


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## Krazy

*Property visa concern*

UAE based lawyers say that some developers in Dubai are advertising residency visas as part of property purchases even though there is no specific legislation in place covering such agreements, reported Gulf News. Property experts say that residence visa issues will increase once speculators leave the market and that a free-hold property law is needed.


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## Krazy

*How high can Dubai property prices go?*

The many announcements of new massive property projects in recent weeks seem at least partly designed to put a ceiling on booming rental and capital values in Dubai. But is the promise of new supply in the future going to affect supply and demand today?

The Dubai Government seems to have been pulling out all the stops to keep the local property boom from getting out of hand.

A slew of major project announcements - from the Dubai Waterfront mini-city near Jebel Ali to the 250-tower Dubai Business Bay in the downtown - appear to be aimed at keeping the market well supplied and therefore to prevent rentals and capital values getting out of hand.

The last thing Dubai wants to become is an expensive place to do business. The emirate grew by being a highly competitive, low-cost business location and would not want to become overpriced like certain Asian markets.

Indeed, there are some signs that price increases are now more muted and that the re-sale market is cooling down. From the rental cost perspective there has been some market resistance to price increases, though often people are accepting smaller accommodation to meet their budget.

However, there is still a time-lag between these massive new developments and the demand for property. The supply is coming tomorrow. The demand is there today.

With this supply and demand position it is impossible not to conclude that the cost of buying property and the cost of rentals will both continue to rise at least until this new supply begins to become available.

Of course, by then the demand for property may be bigger again, and the whole supply/demand equation will have shifted in the direction of permanently higher prices.

This has already happened. Some top local estate agents thought the Jumeirah Beach Residence project might flood the market with apartments, but few hold that view today and prices for the original buyers are three times what they paid. Now the argument has shifted to the tertiary tower developers. But will that be proven wrong too?

Eventually the supply and demand position in Dubai will top out, and then the market will undergo a correction. But with rental and capital values rising at the same time, as they are currently there is nothing immediate to worry about.

Only when rental yields collapse, as the have done in the UK over the past few years, should buyers start to become concerned. We are just not there yet!


----------



## Zoheb_Akhtar

So all in all it's a dog eat dog world? For example, a person (individual) buys an apartment hoping to get a decent return. Although the current market seems to suggest that it is possibe because demand being greater than supply. However in 2 years time when a majority of developments are due to start being completed, the supply is likely to be greater than demand. So individual investors like my self are likely to be left with a deficit! :bash:


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## Zoheb_Akhtar

*Home Finance for Freehold Properties (Just 20% deposit required)*

Just visited www.gowealthy.com after reading on http://www.ameinfo.com/news/Detailed/55698.html that "Gowealthy.com, a website for freehold properties in Dubai, has tied up with Tamweel to provide home finance for its clients. Tamweel will offer its range of Sharia'a compliant finance products to buyers of approved freehold projects in Dubai at competitive rates and terms". 


Tamweel Home Finance

Gowealthy.com and Tamweel, one of the largest mortgage companies in the UAE, have tied up to bring you more home financing options. Tamweel offers a wide variety of products that include financing properties under construction as well as completed homes. 

Tamweel offers Sharia'a compliant products with flexible and fixed profit rates. Products offered by Tamweel are:

Home Builder (For homes under construction) 
Home Owner (Ready property on deferred payment terms) 
Flexi Rent to Own (Installments on flexible profit basis) 
Flexi Lease to Own (Installments on fixed profit basis) 
Eligibility

Tamweel Home Finance is available for UAE residents and non-residents, salaried and self-employed. Eligibility details are as follows:

Minimum age is 21 years 
Maximum age is 60 years upon maturity of financing 
Resident Salaried applicants: minimum monthly salary AED 10,000 
Non-resident salaried applicants: minimum monthly salary AED 15,000-20,000 (GBP 2,144 - 2,858; USD 4,088 - 5,450) 
Self-employed: operating a successful business for last 2 years 

Approved Properties

Tamweel Home Finance is available for properties from the following approved developers: 

NAKHEEL All Projects 
EMAAR All Projects 
ESTITHMAAR Jumeirah Beach Residence 
ABER Dubai Arch Tower 
ASAM Green Lakes 
DEEYAR Al Seef Tower 
IFA Golden Mile and The Palm Residence 


Home Finance Features

Tamweel home financing is available for a minimum amount of AED 180,000 (GBP 25,715; USD 49,048) for UAE Residents, and a maximum amount of AED 5 million (GBP 714,286; USD 1,362,398) for non-residents.

* Conversion rate used 1 GBP = 7 AED; 1 USD = 3.67 AED

Key features of Home Finance are as follows:

Down payment of 20% 
Competitive Flexi and Fixed profit rates based on reducing balance 
Loan tenure is 25 years, 15 years for fixed rate profit 
Payment through monthly post-dated cheques or standing instructions 
Arrangement fee of 1.25%

Wow, with such a great deal, I'm gonna apply asap! :eek2:


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## juiced

I think you're a bit too young for their liking: min age 21!


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## Zoheb_Akhtar

Damn!


----------



## Snatch

*Buying an Aparment in Dubai Good or Bad idea?*

Hey all,

I am thinking of purchasing an apartment in Dubai but with a certain budget limit. I am still thinking about if its better for someone to rent it out or if i should live there if i can find some sort of job. I was hoping for your advice, do you think if i buy it in the next year or so, would it go up in price and can be sold for a nice little profit in say a few years time maybe 5-10 even. Also what is the best and cheapest areas to purchase an apartment/house. 

Il be greatful for your advice and also what are the chances of someone from the UK who is from a pakistani background of getting a job over in Dubai with a decent wage which will last me. I am 18 years old and have got qualifications at say high school level and maybe soon to be college level. 

Cheers


----------



## juiced

Well do you have a UK passport? If you do your salary will be higher, but you have better chances of having a good job if you have a uni degree
Cheapest apartments are in International City or the Greens
Some people say the market is in for a crash, I think prices will still go up until the 2006-7 period, then they will either stop rising or rise a lot slower than they do now.


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## mc

Dubai_Steve said:


> mc, your logic does not apply to Dubai property. Prices are still rising steadily with no sign of a crash because rental yields are still 10%+ (and some say they are rising) so its better to buy now in the correct part of the property cycle not later. Only when rental yields fall below 6% do you need to worry about the market prices slowing. Only if yields go below 4% then a price correct is in store before the next cycle. Also it is cheaper to buy on a mortgage then sell in 10 years for 3 to 4 times the original price (tax free if handled correctly)
> 
> There is no need to live in your apartment - just rent it for a nice profit (After paying the mortgage) ie. get your tennant to pay your morgage for you and enjoy a profit also. If you get an apartment suitable for holiday rentals (eg. very near to the beach) you can expect to make a very big profit which you can use to pay off the mortgage early.
> 
> Tamweel.ae will give you a mortgage online in a few days (if over 21) on many off plan properties in Dubai for up to 25 years. Payments dont start until completion where upon you can rent it out to pay the mortgage. If you buy off plan you can also expect a 30-40% rise in price when finally constructed.
> 
> The other benefit of buying in Dubai is that it is so easy. Just sign a contract - no solicitors needed and no purchasing costs or taxes (apart from your 20% deposit)
> 
> You also need to remember that Dubai is slightly different to other markets because of its fast drive to success. With so many huge developments and investment going on (eg. DubaiLand, Palm projects, waterfront etc.) and a huge tourism drive there will always be interest and excitment in Dubai which also keeps prices up. It has only just started.




Dubai_Steve,

I thank you for your coments which are in line and full accordance with the macroeconomical angle and your knowledge as it relates specifically to Dubai's markets and economy.

In your coment you mentioned an healthy 10%+ and maybe higher yield...*that* I didn't know was even there - and that's just amazing. That in itself is a strong enough figure to throw anybody's rebutal out of the wndw including mine.

However, eventhough I am not in any way disputing the validity of your argument - that's already established, I wanted to simply add that judging from a global real estate market prospective and the everyday talk abt global economy and global mkts (which is why I included Dubai n my prvs comment) like....US, France, Spain, Britain, New Zealand, Ireland, Netherlands, Belgium - the house prices in these countries are at record levels in relation to rents - and that's where Dubai real estate mkt separates itself and does not conform with the rest of the crowd. (yields are at record lows in these countries versus Dubai's highs).

It's definitely interesting how Dubai has managed to separate itself and keep such healthy numbers. You are right when saying that Dubai's mkt is different. The figures are just striking.

mc


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## DarkBlueBoss

:badnews:


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## juiced

The foolish man built his house upon the sand, and the houses on the palm are built on ?


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## DarkBlueBoss

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: this is the only way all this would make sense :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


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## Dubai_Steve

Some houses built on sand:










Some investors making it happen:


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## DarkBlueBoss

nice pic


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## candace

Hi my name is Candace, I am new here, i have tried a few dubai 4rums without learning much. 
I have been offered a job with etihad in AUH. i have been offered accomodation or an allowance. I am thinking of taking the allowance and purchasing an apartment. I am not sure how the market is in AUH. Is it possible to live in Dubai and commute to AUH? I would not have to travel every day. i like this forum there is a lot of good stuff here.
Candy


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Speaking before industry leaders at the MEED (Middle East Economic Digest) conference 'Major Project Development in Dubai' Jagersbacher said: 'It is not difficult to find the rationale for the wealth of hotel-related projects in Dubai. With currently more than 105 airlines providing direct links from Dubai to 160 destinations worldwide, and Emirates Airlines' advance order of $15 billion of new aircraft, Dubai's International Airport anticipates more than 60 million passengers by 2010. These extraordinary forecasts speak volumes of the tremendous growth this city is yet to experience'. 

The latest region-wide industry survey undertaken by TRI Hospitality Consulting revealed over 9,628 rooms will become available by 2008, with more than 300 hotel expansion plans confirmed between 65 hotels on the Jumeirah and Jebel Ali Palm islands, 12 on Sheikh Zayed Road and Al Barsha, as well as seven hotel and resort developments on the emirate's now world famous Jumeirah coastline


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## DarkBlueBoss

candace said:


> Hi my name is Candace, I am new here, i have tried a few dubai 4rums without learning much.
> I have been offered a job with etihad in AUH. i have been offered accomodation or an allowance. I am thinking of taking the allowance and purchasing an apartment. I am not sure how the market is in AUH. Is it possible to live in Dubai and commute to AUH? I would not have to travel every day. i like this forum there is a lot of good stuff here.
> Candy


well u have to know, that from the Marina, to Abu Dhabi, its about an hours drive, and its not a fun drive, 
second of all, the cheapest apt you can buy is probably a studio in international City , which is around 300,000 (please anyone correct me if i am wrong), so depending on ur job, ur allowance, and your willingness to drive back and forth (1 hour each drive) not including Abu Dhabi traffic , 
so good luck my friend


----------



## Krazy

*New online system for property management*

DUBAI Municipality has developed a new online system called DM Property and Lease Management System (Ta'jeer) using Oracle Property Manager.

Announcing the project, Engineer Abdullah Al Shaibani, assistant director general for technical services affairs, said launching of the project comes as a step by the civic body towards enhancing the services that are much sought after by the customers and the systems that need to be updated.

He said the new system will be integrated with other online systems of the municipality, which strives to become a model for e-governance.

Shaibani said during its first phase the project will be implemented for the administrative section of the markets department.

The next phase will be rolling out the system for other departments who are involved in the property and lease management business, he said.

AbdulRahman Al Jaziri, director of the markets department, said his department will be the first beneficiary of the project, which will serve different departments, sections and units of Dubai Municipality.

"With the introduction of this system we will have more opportunities to deal with investors. It helps people to find out about the availability of sites and shops owned by the Municipality. The system will also help them find out the fines and records," said Jaziri.

The administrative section of the markets department is responsible for contracting and leasing the properties, which includes, markets, cafeterias and shops in parks, and other Dubai Municipality buildings.

Its major role is to execute the DM property rent committee decisions, follow-up the lease/tenancy contract, coordinate and follow-up any issues related to lease/tenancy contract, tenant and leasehold/title with other departments, like the legal affairs department, general maintenance department and contracts and purchasing department.

Engineer AbdulHakim Malik, director of the information technology department, said the project will implement Oracle Property Management as a web-based, fully integrated suite of software to provide enterprise-wide management, decision making and reporting system.

He said the online customers will be able to inquire about the leasing of municipality properties that are offered for rent or municipality lands that are open for investment.

"The system will provide online customers with maps and detailed drawings of the municipality properties. They can also submit online applications and pay the required fees online as well as follow it up during its different stages," said Malik.

He said the system is also linked with other concerned internal online systems such as the GRP system, fine system and document management system.

Malik said implementation of the first phase of the project is expected to be completed by mid-July.

The new system will reduce the time for issuing and renewing lease/tenancy contracts; offer complete visibility of information regarding vacant, rented and full leasehold/title; help tracking and monitoring the rent and contract payments and ensure seamless flow of information to DM rent committee.

It will also be help the customers in tracking of expired lease and tenancy contracts, provide information concerning tenants' fines and penalties.


----------



## juiced

candace said:


> Hi my name is Candace, I am new here, i have tried a few dubai 4rums without learning much.
> I have been offered a job with etihad in AUH. i have been offered accomodation or an allowance. I am thinking of taking the allowance and purchasing an apartment. I am not sure how the market is in AUH. Is it possible to live in Dubai and commute to AUH? I would not have to travel every day. i like this forum there is a lot of good stuff here.
> Candy


I know some people that live in Dubai and work in AUD its not as hard as it sounds, but you would probably want to buy in Dubai Marina or Jumeirah Lake Towers


----------



## Krazy

*Emaar completes project*

Dubai: Emaar Properties, the region's largest property developer, has completed the deployment of Oracle E-Business Suite to fully integrate and streamline the company's back-to-front-office business processes.

The project enhances operational efficiencies and financial reporting, and increases the quality of customer service.

The Oracle E-Business Suite of business applications links Emaar's financial systems, property management, project development, and customer relationship management (CRM) functions for enhanced customer service.

Sahm Technologies, the Information Technology subsidiary of Emaar Properties, has managed the complex project implementation for completion on time and on budget.


----------



## Krazy

*Dubai property booms on steady inflow from regional investors*

Talking to Dubai watchers there is always a question they ask, especially of weathered residents of the country like myself, about how the property boom is being funded.

This in a sense takes on the from discussion I raised last week about the future of this boom.

In the first place we notice that the total bank borrowing in the banking system in 2004, as an example, went up by around $3.5 billion (Dh12.88 billion) in net terms. Further it is unlikely that this increased borrowing went into real estate funding, as various other sectors of the economy, which traditionally have used the banking system, absorbed the additional lending by the banks.

For the sceptics the question then becomes even more apparent as to where the additional money has flowed into the Dubai property market, and hence its boom.

Some of the largest cash inflows are coming from regional investors who have deployed their wealth into Dubai. As an example, it is estimated that Saudi investors brought in over $7.5 billion (Dh27.6 billion) into Dubai into various investments, with over 90 per cent going into real estate. This is a flow that continues and is coming from investors who have been traditionally used to the idea of long term holdings in real estate assets.

In addition to the Saudi investors, there is a steady inflow from investors from Kuwait and Qatar, and one can see a number of projects within Dubai have been taken up by investors from those countries.

The interesting element is that many property experts often talk of the inventory of apartments and villas that are in the hands of investors, and some have led to the conclusion that these investors will be the first to panic in the event of a slowdown.

This is where I disagree with the pundits on the grounds that the profile of these large inventory holders is such that they would easily and traditionally be apt to look at the investment as a long term vision. Indeed, there is a chance that the panic would come from the speculators, who on the submission of a small deposit on a property are hoping to flip it to an end user for a profit.

Such "scalpers" are large in numbers, but in terms of the firepower they command they have minimal cash effect on the market, though admittedly they do provide an interesting conduit to the end-users.

My guess is that the long-term investors are waiting for these people to panic, and they are the ones who would be squeezed out of the equation. Interestingly the life of these people is getting more difficult with new developers insisting on resale provisions that tighten the market for these speculators.

My guess remains that investment capital is large and will continue to seek a home in Dubai. A total estimate of property investment into Dubai last year (including commitments) exceeds well over $11 billion (Dh40.48 billion), and this is without counting the end-user. The entry into the personal mortgage market by major banks also indicates that the end-users, especially those resident within Dubai, are emerging as strong buyers.

In addition, of the 230,000 annual estimated increase of the population in the country, a large percentage is coming into Dubai. Given a base figure increase of around 120,000 additional residents in Dubai a year and an average family size of three people, around 40,000 units will be required per year for this new influx.

Excess demand

Let us assume that 75 per cent of these new residents will go for sharing abodes, that will mean 30,000 additional units need to be created for the new residents.

Judging by the manner in which the rental levels have been exceptionally robust, one can assume that there is demand excess for which the supply is just not there. It is likely that currently the shortage of residential units is such that most of the units under construction will be easily absorbed.

My estimate would be that given the current construction schedule and, indeed, delays in some construction projects, the current 75,700 units under construction will be absorbed by the time they come to the market.

I agree that some may point out to the occupancy of the completed units in the last year was around 33 per cent and goes against my theory. I ascribe this to an element of rental pricing for those units and the affordable level of sustainable rents.

New landlords have entered the market at a price point which makes them pricey and could be one reason for the vacancy.

Further, the test of the theory will be when the first units bought by residents are ready and the fact that these residents will move into their own properties, we will see a balance between demand and supply developing.

Overall, I feel that the issue is always of demand and supply, and this is where the current market conditions are settling in. Given large inflows from strategic investors I am certain that there will be no issues for the moment.


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## candace

Thanks for the info boys
Candy


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## DUBAI

candace said:


> Hi my name is Candace, I am new here, i have tried a few dubai 4rums without learning much.
> I have been offered a job with etihad in AUH. i have been offered accomodation or an allowance. I am thinking of taking the allowance and purchasing an apartment. I am not sure how the market is in AUH. Is it possible to live in Dubai and commute to AUH? I would not have to travel every day. i like this forum there is a lot of good stuff here.
> Candy


well first of all try to get a job with emirates insted of ethihad!

seccondly, failing that, live in dubai! you will have loads more fun, from what i hear quite a few ethihad staff are getting fed up with abu dhabi!


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## candace

*liberal*



DUBAI said:


> well first of all try to get a job with emirates insted of ethihad!
> 
> seccondly, failing that, live in dubai! you will have loads more fun, from what i hear quite a few ethihad staff are getting fed up with abu dhabi!


Thanks for the advice, I have heard that Abu Dhabi is less liberal then Dubai...can i wear my short skirts and crop tops in Abu Dhabi ?? :lol:


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## DarkBlueBoss

you can, but expect alot of people to stare and maybe u might hear a few comments now and then that u might not like, but , very rare in dubai for that to happen, if not to happen at all,


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## Krazy

depends on which area ur in Abu Dhabi, it's not as bad as DarkBlue makes it sound I assure you.


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## juiced

candace said:


> Hi my name is Candace, I am new here, i have tried a few dubai 4rums without learning much.
> I have been offered a job with etihad in AUH. i have been offered accomodation or an allowance. I am thinking of taking the allowance and purchasing an apartment. I am not sure how the market is in AUH. Is it possible to live in Dubai and commute to AUH? I would not have to travel every day. i like this forum there is a lot of good stuff here.
> Candy


If you are a trolley dolly you will probably want to live in Dubai anyway, there is no nightlife in AUH !


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## juiced

DarkBlueBoss said:


> you can, but expect alot of people to stare and maybe u might hear a few comments now and then that u might not like, but , very rare in dubai for that to happen, if not to happen at all,


Very very true (don't listen to Krazy, he is exactly what his username suggests  ) and in Dubai you can go topless and no one will really care.


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## Admiror

High rents to drive freehold boom: experts 
16-May-2005 



CEO Asteco Elaine Jones said "We're seeing colossal demand for well-maintained, affordable properties with amenities like gym, swimming pool, and underground parking," "There is some new construction, but this is falling well short of demand. A better investment right now would be to put money into buying a home, but an Abu Dhabi freehold law needs to allow full ownership with the right to demolish, renovate, or expand the property."


Landlords can implement 10-20 per cent rent increases after every two years according to the new Abu Dhabi rent laws. Asteco analysts say rent reductions look 
unlikely in the remainder of the second quarter, with many landlords entering into the new rent cycles this year.


Rapid population growth is forcing prices up in Abu Dhabi. From a population of just 140,000 in 1980, the UAE capital is home to 600,000 today, and city planners expect its numbers to swell to 1.35 million by 2020. With the rents up by an average of 8 to 10 per cent since December 2004, the cost of Abu Dhabi office space is also soaring high.With the occupancy approaching 100 per cent, the average rents for new buildings are now AED600 to 650 per square meter.


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## Dubai_Steve

Dubai's property market has begun to soften much earlier than expected, after a strong growth in demand over the last few years, developers said.

A number of new players have surfaced in the resale market over the last few months hoping to take advantage of high demand for new units, and fuelling speculation.

Until recently, some bookings of unbuilt apartments were changing hands at 100 per cent premiums.

Some of the biggest developers, including Nakheel, recently warned speculators not to inflate the market.

Private developers last year indicated that strong investor demand, mostly based on increased resale transactions and speculation, would sustain the market for a few years.

The scenario, however, is changing, *although this may be a temporary slowdown*, developers say.

They say new developments are no longer selling so quickly, and resale margins on unfinished properties are falling. "A lot of people are not getting the expected resale prices on their purchases," Faris Saeed, general manager of Diamond Investments, told Gulf News.

Developers say this is the beginning of a "correction phase" that will help the market to stabilise.

"The market is in the correction stage. Many new buyers are waiting for the new federal law, which we expect, will eventually legalise the freehold property market," a senior official of a private development company which is selling residential units to expatriates said.

This is happening, surprisingly, as land prices are going up, due to the announcement of new projects and infrastructure developments.

Dubai witnessed land deals worth Dh843 million last week.

However, developers *expect the property market to pick up once a new UAE law introducing freehold property ownership for expatriates is introduced later this year.*
"This will encourage more expatriates from the rental market to enter the freehold market as they will be able to receive title deeds in their name.

"It will also help the market to stabilise further," a developer said.

There is no UAE law at present that allows freehold ownership by expatriates.

"The UAE Constitution says that land law comes under the jurisdiction of the individual emirates' Rulers. 

"It also says that individual emirates' laws should not conflict with federal law but there is only a vague reference in the federal law to the ownership of fixed assets. 

"In essence, the federal law is silent on whether foreigners may own land and buildings," according to the Economic Report of the National Bank of Dubai.

Saeed said, "From what we hear, the law will be an advanced one and will legalise freehold property for the expatriates.

"The market is currently softening as *new investors are waiting for the new law to be issued.* The profit margin in the secondary market is also not that high, compared to what it was last year."

In some cases, investors are not getting the expected price of the apartments, he said. "We will see further stabilisation in the market in the coming months," he added


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## juiced

Good news, Steve this might mean prices will not be going up by a further 40% at the Marina.


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## Dubai_Steve

juiced, I thought you would want them to go up as fast as possible since you bought there? 

Im not sure this is true - the new torch tower was released a few days ago and is almost 40% sold out already.

I dont know what all the fuss is about regarding freehold law - it will come one day but that doesnt really affect anything - you just get a tempory lease until the law is passed. You can still rent out or resale your apartments and make some cash. Doesnt really affect anything?


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## juiced

True, but the higher prices go, the greater the chances of the bursting of a bubble (if there is one).

BTW Check this link, it's VERY interesting.
http://www.7days.ae/content/view/1336/12/

The media in the UAE, and Dubai in particular, has undergone a rapid transformation over the last few years thanks to greater competition, and a more liberal stance from both business and the government. However, there remains a lack of clear guidelines over what can and cannot be printed. The result is a broad spectrum of publications, some of which push things to the extreme, and others that conservatively stay well within known bounds.

‘The line’, delineating what can and cannot be said is long and squiggly-looking depending on what area of public life it is snaking its way through. But one of its boundaries has been found this week, by our friends at Arabian Business, who made some insinuations about the acitivites of some public relations executives on a press trip to Amsterdam with a major company, which, it appears, does not take kindly to inaccurate suggestions that its PR team took advantage of some of Amsterdam’s more leafy offerings, and has responded by pulling advertising from the whole of ITP, Arabian Business’ publisher.

The company spent about $1 million a year with ITP, so this could turn out to be a rather expensive error, depending on how long the boycott stays in place.

Thank you Arabian Business, for finding the line for us. At the other end of the scale, we have evidence that taboo-reinforcing *Gulf News has recently spiked a column because of its questioning of the property market in Dubai*.

Entitled “Dubai: are you a fantasy or a miracle?” The piece questioned whether or not planners are turning the city into an entertainment park, and called for some real debate on the future of the city, a pretty reasonable request, you may think, considering the rapid pace at which Dubai is evolving.

*One wonders whether it was a desire not to upset the decision-makers in Dubai, or whether it has something to do with the fact that its parent company Al Nisr Media recently launched a magazine called “Property Weekly” that relies on advertising revenue, partly from those city planners*.

It would be wrong for me to hazard a guess, but I will leave it up to you to make up your own mind. Of course, ad revenue mght have had nothing to do with the decison. But it seems fair to say, though, that the line was nowhere in sight when that particular decision was made.


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## Dubai-Lover

i don't trust all these articles

one article says the market will grow even more
another one - like this right here - says it's slowing down

one day there will be a crash for sure, simply because they have to set the prices down as it's impossible to get some 200.000 people in the completed towers simultaneously in 2007
once the apartments & villas are cheaper more people can afford to move in.
then the occupancy rate will grow, the prices will rise again to what they're now

maybe this even is the way dubai wants it to be? :dunno:

i only see a "short-time crash" for dubai's property market.


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## juiced

How badly will the market crash do you think? Do you see prices returning down to original price levels, and then up again?


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## Dubai_Steve

Dont think prices will go down at all - they will maybe stagnate a few weeks before going up again. Prices are still very reasonable and affordable in Dubai, plenty of room yet for growth. Also rental yields are very high which means prices should still go up according to economics. Only when rental yields fall low do you see any sustained slowdown or drop in prices. I think the property demand will be greater than the supply of property that will become availble in 2007 & 2008.


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## Dubai-Lover

i have a feeling the crash will bring the prices back to where thy were at the very beginning.

this means all the investors will lose a hell lot of money in the worst case or they won't earn what they hoped to earn one day.

technically it's impossible to get so many people into the country within 1 year. besides all of them have to be able to pay the current prices which will rise even more until projects are completed in 2007.

we should not forget how many people dubai needs to fill all residential units in 2010. MILLIONS!!! this will never work!

but again, once more people can afford an apartment or villa in dubai due to the low prices caused by the crash
the big advantage is that dubai as a city will be very new and extremely beautiful, as everything is masterplanned. people will love it! this will lure people to dubai, filling the units.


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## juiced

That makes a lot of sense, just one last thing, *when* do you think the crash will happen?


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## smussuw

Experts say that there is something called apartement cricle. It is five years long. So every five years the prices tend to come back to its reasonable and right price whether it is higher or lower. So if Dubai circle started at 2001 then 2006 will be the year to see whether there will be a crash or not.


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## Dubai-Lover

as soon as a few hundreds of towers & villas have been completed
make it 2008
and a lot more will be finished after the projects to be completed in 2008. a hell lot!
just think of the following:

what do you think? how many people will be able to live in the following projects??

dubai waterfront
jebel ali airport
palm deira
palm jumeirah
palm jebel ali
DUBAILAND!!!!
business bay
park square
the world
difc
burj dubai complex
media city
silicon oasis
jumeirah islands
dubai marina
jumeirah lake towers
the lost city
jumeirah gulf estates
festival city
emirates living
international city
jumeirah village
discovery gardens
the views @ emirates golf club
the gardens
international media & production zone


these are the projects which offer residential units

you can easily put 5 million+ people in these!!! and we know there is more to come, much more!!!
arabian bays
seven pearls
the arabian canal @ dubai waterfront and jxb airport
....

how do you plan to get 5 million+ people to buy an apartment/villa until 2010???????????


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## Dubai_Steve

Many or most of the aprtments will be rented to tourists - Remember Dubai is pushing for mass tourism. It still makes sense for an investor to buy whether or not prices go up or down becasue the rental yield is very high because of this all year round tourism.

The idea is you pay around 50 or 60k as 20 or 30% deposit - then the rent pays off the mortgage in 10 years or less - leaving you with a rental income for life. So 50% may be rented to tourists and another 50% for people to live in perhaps.

So maybe on 2.5 million are required by 2010 ? and I think the population growth is supposed to exceed this isnt it?


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## juiced

I think the beginnings of the 'crash' has already begun. 
Even though Jumeirah Village was launched and sold months ago, premiums are seriously struggling. You can find villas there for only *4% premium*
Premiums on new developments are very very low and the market is not as busy as before.
But when apartments flood the market in 05/06, prices will start to go down.


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## Admiror

The question is ; who initially came with the idea of building hundreds of thousands of apartments in the first place?? Is it just a government lead race to make more money out of the projects or was this actually planned keeping the demand in sight? I find it a difficult idea that thousands of poeple are making a mistake in the estimation of future property market at the present and just buying for the sake of buying. One of the ways to look how reasonable prices are could be to look at apartment / villa prices in other capitals of the arab world e g Riyadh, Doha etc. and to give Dubai the advantage of being the future "entertainment city" as well as a mass tourist attraction.I personally think that prices would not drop by more than 5 % of what they are at the moment. However, it is very likely that the from now onwards the increase in property value would be quite gradual (not that steep, for sure). What will make a crash is if for some reason Dubai failed to meet its dream of becoming the future tourist hotspot.


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## Dubai-Lover

the real question is:

what do dubai's leaders really have in mind?
i mean, they know how many projects they have and how many units these will have!
they know it will be dubai's toughest job to fill everything.

i think they have something in mind to attract even more people. whatever it is.


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## juiced

Freehold property cannot really be bought in other parts of the Arab world (by expats) so there is not much to compare it with.


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## Dubai_Steve

Dubai property investors are a pretty smug and self-satisfied bunch. Those who bought early have made spectacular profits, and almost everyone has been a winner so far. 

But inflation could prove the icing on the cake for local real estate investors. This will drive up local rental prices even further, and improve rental yields. House prices will follow rents upwards. And for those who borrow against their investments, inflation will erode their debts. 

The only losers here will be those who do not buy property, and continue to rent, hoping perhaps that at some point in the future the market will undergo a big correction. However, the burden of rising rents may prove far higher than any savings that they could conceivably get in the future. 

You only need to look at how much you will pay out in rent, and then ask, 'will I really be able to buy this five bedroom villa for $300,000 less than today in five years' time?' 

Actually, when you think about the effect that rising general inflation in the UAE is likely to have on house prices, then any fall back in prices will probably be from a higher general price level than that seen today - which is universally agreed to be low by international standards. 

In real estate the general rule of thumb is that buying and gearing up makes very good investment sense in a rising market. In a falling market - such as the UK today - renting is definitely better than buying, as the gearing works in reverse in a falling market. 

But how likely is the UAE to become a falling market in the current frenzied investment environment, with more than $100 billion committed to projects in Dubai alone, and Abu Dhabi now beginning to plan its own massive expansion programme? 

There might be a case to answer if real estate was expensive in the UAE, and all the good news was therefore in the price. But that is simply not the case. Moreover, the UAE has an outstanding economic outlook, thanks to ownership of 10% of the world's oil reserves and an enlightened government. 

Buying property under these circumstances still requires the normal application of due diligence and common sense. But as High Highness Dubai Crown Prince General Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum has said, sometimes the biggest risk is not taking a risk. 

Those who are paying outrageous rents in a few years time, while those who bought homes are paying monthly mortgages that are practically unchanged, will rue the day that they ignored these words of wisdom!


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## Admiror

Everybody however, should keep in mind that rising hose prisec and high rents is not a welcome news for the economy as a whole. As is the case now in Dubai, companies offer accommodation or rent advantages for skilled workers. If the prices are going to rise endlessly, the possibility is that the comapnies will stop doing that and poeple will have to find their own accommodation arrangments. This will clearly drive the skilled force out of Dubai as at the moment it is only possible to make savings as you do not have to pay the rent yourself. So for Daubai's economy in the long run, the best news will be house prices coming down, not going up. I think this is one of the key points why so many units have been planned ----to bring the rents down in the long run. This will automatically bring the house prices down as well----the correction phase---as it is called.


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## Koi

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dont think prices will go down at all - they will maybe stagnate a few weeks before going up again. Prices are still very reasonable and affordable in Dubai, plenty of room yet for growth. Also rental yields are very high which means prices should still go up according to economics. Only when rental yields fall low do you see any sustained slowdown or drop in prices. I think the property demand will be greater than the supply of property that will become availble in 2007 & 2008.


You are always very positive about Dubai property investment. Can you see that prices cannot go on rising forever (speculators and government controlled media are driving up prices). When all those developments are completed, rental yields will fall because supply will be greater than demand, which mean less people wanting to invest in property.


----------



## DUBAI

The first rule of being a property mogul....

Stay Positive!


----------



## juiced

One reason why I am getting a little sceptical is something AlMillion mentioned some time ago. There was a penthouse he was interested in buying (before getting the MH one) that was on sale for a certain price. He ended up not buying that particular penthouse, but when he checked it a few months later, the price had reason substantially yet no one had bought the penthouse all this while! This is what is so flawed, you cannot just raise the price like this is no one is buying. Eventually the developer would have to reduce the price back to more reasonable levels to get a buyer. Unneccessary price rise


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## Salty

*Rollercoaster Riding, or Fear and Loathing in Dubai*

Nice to make first contact with a new neighbour Alt Tab. When we are on the island having just taken delivery of our apartments next year you must come over for a :cheers: 

Myself I continually vacillate over all this. I'm on a proper sine wave. Sometimes I think that one day I am indeed going to be "officially rich" (may you live long and prosper Dubai Steve for the expression of this worthy sentiment), whereas at other times I feel I may end up eventually taking a bit of a loss on my Palm Jumeirah purchase. It's true of course that we would all like to think that our Dubai properties are located in the equivalent of the next Puerto Banus or Monte Carlo, and that 8 or 10 years from now they'll be worth a million quid or so. Stranger things have happened I suppose. I mean the truth is the universe is quite indifferent to our individual prosperity. It's all one to the world whether we end up as princes or paupers. Yeah, I suppose it could happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

Perhaps what you've got to ask yourself in the end is, "Am I happy with what I've got for what I've paid for it." When I look at the quality,size and position of my apartment on the Palm, and compare it with what I would be able to get for the same price on the Costas for instance - well I'm very  happy indeed. Of course I hope to turn a reasonable coin from letting the place out, hopefully enough to pay my UK mortgage every month. But whatever happens I'm just very very pleased with the prospect of taking ownership of a beautiful new home at a truly amazing spot in my favourite town in all the world.

Basically, we may not win big, but I don't think we can really lose here.


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## Admiror

well said Salty


----------



## Nomad

Salty said:


> Nice to make first contact with a new neighbour Alt Tab. When we are on the island having just taken delivery of our apartments next year you must come over for a :cheers:
> 
> Myself I continually vacillate over all this. I'm on a proper sine wave. Sometimes I think that one day I am indeed going to be "officially rich" (may you live long and prosper Dubai Steve for the expression of this worthy sentiment), whereas at other times I feel I may end up eventually taking a bit of a loss on my Palm Jumeirah purchase. It's true of course that we would all like to think that our Dubai properties are located in the equivalent of the next Puerto Banus or Monte Carlo, and that 8 or 10 years from now they'll be worth a million quid or so. Stranger things have happened I suppose. I mean the truth is the universe is quite indifferent to our individual prosperity. It's all one to the world whether we end up as princes or paupers. Yeah, I suppose it could happen, but I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> Perhaps what you've got to ask yourself in the end is, "Am I happy with what I've got for what I've paid for it." When I look at the quality,size and position of my apartment on the Palm, and compare it with what I would be able to get for the same price on the Costas for instance - well I'm very  happy indeed. Of course I hope to turn a reasonable coin from letting the place out, hopefully enough to pay my UK mortgage every month. But whatever happens I'm just very very pleased with the prospect of taking ownership of a beautiful new home at a truly amazing spot in my favourite town in all the world.
> 
> Basically, we may not win big, but I don't think we can really lose here.



Cheers Salty for making those of us in the same boat, feel better.


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## juiced

Premiums on the re-sale of off-plan property have been squeezed in recent weeks, reported Gulf News. Developers said re-sale margins are falling and that a lot of people are not getting the expected re-sale price on their purchases. They suggested this was a correction phase before the expected introduction of a new UAE property law.

http://www.ameinfo.com/60573.html

Summary: Oversupply stage now


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## montecristo

juiced said:


> Premiums on the re-sale of off-plan property have been squeezed in recent weeks, reported Gulf News. Developers said re-sale margins are falling and that a lot of people are not getting the expected re-sale price on their purchases. They suggested this was a correction phase before the expected introduction of a new UAE property law.
> 
> http://www.ameinfo.com/60573.html
> 
> Summary: Oversupply stage now


This means in a short time prices will go down.


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## Imre

When will be introduced a new UAE property law?


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## ragga

what IS the new uae property law? (just the freehold one?)


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## ragga

man you guys scare me with my investments.. im thinking of just selling out and buying only pre-launch and just flipping them quick for profit... 

*nervous*

i need :cheers:


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## arfie

Will Palm Jebel Ali be a good place to invest once the government allows Developers to sell ?


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## Imre

The Palms  
These are enormous and fascinating projects that have become famous throughout the world. They comprise the reclamation of not just one, but three palm-shaped landmasses, off the coast of Dubai.

The basis for all three is to build apartments, some townhouses and commercial units and hotels along the 'trunks' of each palm, with villas along the 'fronds'.

Prices here are for the Palm Jumeirah, the smallest of the three, and the first to complete (due during 2006).


*Palm Jumeirah* 
Apartments


Dhs 
1 bed: 1,400,000
2 bed: 1,600,000
3 bed: 2,000,000

Villas

Town houses: 3,500,000 
'Garden' villas: 5,200,000
'Signature' villas: 10,000,000


The other two palms are the Palm Jebel Ali and the Palm Deira. The Palm Jebel Ali will be larger than the Palm Jumeirah, and the Palm Deira will be the largest of the three.

*Arabian Ranches * 
A large development, comprising around 6,000 townhouses and detached villas. The Ranches centres around two main leisure activities. The first is a new championship golf course, which is now open to members and to the public on a 'pay & play' basis. The second is a large equestrian centre, comprising stabling for over 330 horses, two polo fields and arenas for dressage and show jumping. Throughout the development will be bridle paths. 
There will also be two 'town centres' and a school to service the community.

Arabian Ranches will form part of the Sports & Outdoor World Theme Project of the enormous DubaiLand development.

Town houses
2 bed: 1,150,000
3 bed: 1,195,000

Detached villas
3 bed: 1,700,000
4 bed: 2,500,000 
5 bed: 3,100,000 


*Emirates Hills * 
Another large development with houses of varying sizes and styles. Within Emirates Hills are The Springs, The Meadows, The Hattans and Emirates Hills. The Springs are the smallest units and all are either semi-detached or terraced, with Emirates Hills being the largest. 
Within Emirates Hills is another championship golf course (designed by Colin Montgomerie), various 'town centres' and a new school is being established.

Emirates Hills itself was initially launched some years ago: purchasers bought land, and then built to their own design, within certain restrictions. As a result, the Emirates Hills part of the development comprises large family detached homes that are individually designed, and those for sale start at around Dhs 6 million.


*The Meadows * 
A large, multi-phase development of 3/4/5 bedroom detached houses, varying in styles, depending upon the phase in which they are located. Part of the Meadows is already complete, with several more phases sold. 
The finished development will feature childcare centres, fitness centre, swimming pools, children's play area, shops, cafes and restaurants.

Detached villas 
3 bed: 1,970,000 
4 bed: 2,200,000
5 bed: 3,200,000 


*The Springs * 
Located within the same area as The Meadows, the Springs are attached (terraced) townhouses, again of varying shapes and sizes, and again being built in phases. The features of the Springs are similar to the Meadows: children's areas, fitness and retail.

Townhouses 
2 bed mid terrace 775,000 
2 bed end terrace 1,000,000
3 bed mid terrace 1,250,000
3 bed end terrace 1,650,000

*Dubai Marina * 
This is a 4 km long man-made marina, around which approximately 100 blocks of apartments, serviced apartments and hotels are being built. Most of the apartment blocks will have their own pool/leisure facilities, and some will house cafes/ restaurants/retail/cinemas and so on. There will be additional commercial/retail outlets and the Marina is expected to become a vibrant social centre as well as forming a new residential district. 
Most developments around the Marina have studio, one, two and three bedroom apartments, with a more limited number of larger flats and a few villas. At the time of writing, six apartment buildings have already been built and are occupied; a seventh block is due for completion any day. There are approximately 40 further buildings in which apartments can currently be bought off-plan, mainly in the re-sale market.

Apartments

Studios: 425,000
1 bed: 675,000
2 bed: 800,000
3 bed: 1,300,000

Villas: 4,000,000


*Jumeirah Lakes Towers * 
Close to Dubai Marina is another area that will be developed around a man-made lake, with approximately 70 apartment blocks planned. As with other developments, most blocks will have their own leisure facilities, and some will have restaurants/cafes and retail outlets. 
There are currently approximately 30 blocks in which you can buy, off-plan. None of the developments at Jumeirah Lakes Towers has yet been completed. Most will have studio, one and two bedroom apartments, with a few three-bedroom units. With so many blocks already under construction or planned, sizes and prices vary considerably, but as an indicator:

Apartments

Studios: 400,000
1 bed: 800,000
2 bed: 1,000,000
3 bed: 1,300,000


*Jumeirah Islands * 
This is a development of 48 'clusters', each with 16 detached 4-bedroom houses, built around a large man-made waterway. There will be a sports facility at one end of the development with a marina and retail/restaurant mall at the other end. 
Jumeirah Islands is different to most villa developments because of the range of choice offered in terms of the exteriors of the houses. Prices vary dependent upon water views, and on which of the three internal layouts have been chosen.

From 2,800,000


*Jumeirah Village * 
Comprising mainly smaller houses of 1 to 3 bedrooms, Jumeirah Village is the second phase of the Jumeirah Islands project. 
1 bed: 850,000
2 bed: 1,400,000


*Jumeirah Beach Residence * 
This is a very large development of approximately 6,500 apartments located very close to Dubai Marina and set just behind main Dubai's beachfront hotels. Again, it has studios, 1/2/3 bedroom flats, with a limited number of penthouses, lofts and villas. Completion is scheduled for the end of 2005. 
1 bed: 628,000
2 bed: 1,300,000
3 bed: 1,700,000


*The Greens * 
A development of competitively priced 1/2/3 bedroom apartments in low-rise blocks in an informal courtyard setting. Adjacent to Emirates Golf Club, each part of the Greens has a pool, gym and children's play areas. There is also a small shopping centre, with a supermarket, chemist shop, coffee shop etc. 
Apartments

Studio: 475,000 
1 bed: 650,000
2 bed: 856,000
3 bed: 1,150,000


*Gardens of Discovery * 
Known locally as 'Discovery Gardens' this is a development of apartments within very easy reach of one of Dubai's three very large new shopping malls, the Ibn Battuta mall. Ibn Battuta was an Arabian explorer, and the various components of the Mall are being developed to represent the countries to which he traveled, such as Persia, Morocco etc. 
Discovery Gardens comprises 290 low level blocks between four and eight floors high), built in groups of three or four around courtyard areas.

Studios: 300,000
1 bed: 600,000


*International City * 
Approx 1800 apartments within various blocks designed to represent various different parts of the world. The apartments within most of International City are studios and 1 bedroom units. 
Within the Central District of International City will be a small number of high-rise blocks, with studios and ½ bedroom flats.

International City is based around The Dragon Mart, which is a 1.2 km long centre housing the largest trading hub for products from China outside the Chinese mainland. In addition there will be office and retail elements within the project.

Apartments

Studio: 250,000
1 bed: 350,000
2 bed: TBA


*Dubai International Finance Centre * 
Apartments being developed to complement the new financial business district. DIFC is being designed specifically to create a major Middle East financial hub along the lines of New York and Hong Kong. 
From: 1,800,000 (1 bed)

'Downtown": being developed around the site of the Burj Dubai, set to be the tallest building in the world. A range of apartments is available in the 'Old Town, district, as well as in buildings close to and within the Burj tower itself.

Old Town
1 bed: 1,200,000
2 bed: 1,500,000

The Residences 
1 bed: 950,000 
2 bed: 1,700,000
3 bed: 2,500,000

The Views: 
1 bed: 1,100,000
2 bed: 2,000,000
3 bed: 3,300,000

Burj Dubai (Tallest Tower): 
2 bed: 4,300,000


Whilst there already a large number of developments under construction, the overall plans for Dubai's future mean that plenty more will come to the market over the next few years. Amongst those already on the drawing board, and with off-plan resales available are: 
*Silicon Oasis*: 
A technology-based integrated manufacturing and research project for the semiconductor and microelectronics industry. Despite it's industrial nature, around 400 apartments and approx 550 houses will be available for purchase. 
*The Villa: * 
Within the overall Dubailand scheme, The Villa, located behind the Global village, is based predominantly on the sale of plots. However, there is also the option to choose one of five villa types, or to 'build your own' property. 
*Sports City: * 
Sports City is part of the DubaiLand project. Various blocks of apartments, and numerous villas will be available - the first launch is called Victory Heights. The residential, commercial and retail elements of Sports City will house a community of around 70,000. As it's name suggests, Dubai's sports will be focused within Sports City: elements include an 18-hole championship golf course (designed by Ernie Els), at least four purpose built stadia, and sporting academies (an MOU has been signed with Manchester United Football Club for the soccer academy). 
The world cricket body, the ICC announced in early 2005 that it would be relocating from its dual headquarters in London and Geneva to Dubai. Once the facilities of Sports City are complete, this is where the amalgamated body will be located.


*DubaiLand:* 
Within this massive project will be a number of residential developments including those at Arabian Ranches and Sports City mentioned above. Each of the future phases will also have it's own residential element. 
*The Waterfront/Arabian Canal:* 
This is the most recent, and probably the most ambitious, project announced to date. The Waterfront is anticipated to house up to 750,000 people. The Arabian Canal, which will link up with The Waterfront, will be around 75 kms long and will have both commercial and residential developments along it. The Waterfront alone will have 10 distinct districts, up to 250 planned communities and plots for 150 hotels. 
*Jebel Ali Airport * 
A second international airport for Dubai was due by around 2015, however work was brought forward to begin in February 2005. Within the airport site will be large commercial and residential districts. The commercial element will focus on logistics and industries linked to the airline business, although there will be a total of around 850 office blocks within the site. 
The residential scheme will have a new 18-hole golf course at its centre. It is anticipated that it will include both apartments and villas.


* The Business Bay * The Business Bay is designed to complement the new Financial Centre and the various companies within the Burj Dubai. Comprising around 250 towers in total, there will be a large element of both commercial and residential accommodation. 
New developments are being launched frequently, so this is not designed to be an exhaustive list, but rather to give an outline of some of the larger projects that have already been announced. 

http://www.dubaipropertytours.com/


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## Admiror

mama mia :hammer: 

Ver nice post btw


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## DarkBlueBoss

Imre ....anything on the prices at the Green Community?? , I am looking for 3 - 4 bedroom villas


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## Imre

DarkBlueBoss said:


> Imre ....anything on the prices at the Green Community?? , I am looking for 3 - 4 bedroom villas



Sorry ... I have just found these details.


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## juiced

DarkBlueBoss said:


> Imre ....anything on the prices at the Green Community?? , I am looking for 3 - 4 bedroom villas


We want to buy there as well, the townhouses are at around 2 million for 3 bedrooms and one study, but they are very big at 4200 square feet.
And then the family villas are around 5200 square feet, around 4 bedrooms with study and family room and so on for Dhs 3 million.
They are really good value for money and the landscaping is really good www.up.ae/gc


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## DarkBlueBoss

wow, why expensive, a friend of mine got a town house, 6800 sq, at the greens community, for 1.2 million


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## juiced

That was the launch price, 4200sq feet built up on 7000 plot of land, now they've gone up but they are much cheaper than all the emaar developments (3100 sq feet villa in AR for 2 million)


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## juiced

Green Community Photos


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## DubaiDream

From what I've heard, a lot of these new villas in dubai have problems with rats, spiders, flies and sewerage etc


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## DarkBlueBoss

i guess i should have bought one at the launch, i actually when to the first few days of the launch, but didnt make up my mind, now i kinda regret it


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## juiced

Buy now before it goes up to 3 million for a townhouse, then you will really kick yourself.
BTW how come GC is significantly cheaper than Emaar? I know GC only sells leasehold and not freehold but it can't make that much of a difference?


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## DarkBlueBoss

well, its a 90 year lease, and EMAAR has the reputation, nothing much really, i really liked the GC, very lovely place, been to friends palce there a few times, very nice


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## juiced

Emaar may be freehold but do you really see any of Emirates Hills or Arabian Ranches still standing even 20 years from now?


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## DarkBlueBoss

ur right, no house, (especially this quality of construction) will last more than 20-25 years.


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## Salty

Has everyone seen the Oqyana website? www.oqyana.com 

Prices are on the Betterhomes site. Studio apartments (from AED 1,174,022) and 1 bedrooms (from AED 1,761,032) aren't too ridiculously expensive (but they are very small at these prices). Once you move to a 2 bedroom though the cheapest you'll find is AED 2,935,054.

This place is like a high tech Maldives off the coast of Dubai. I suppose if privacy is your number one priority then it might be the spot for you. For me though The World just seems too remote and inconvenient to get to. I like the idea of being able to nip downstairs and either hop in my car or grab a taxi straight into town. To be relying on boats and helicopters would turn a quick jaunt into a bit of an expedition. It's too cut off out there.

Oqyana is of course only the first of very many developments to come on The World. It'll be interesting to see how they sell. Seems to me that either something like the Shoreline Apartments (well connected to shore) is still significantly underpriced or Oqyana is too expensive. Maybe the Palm Jumeirah and The World are just catering for two very different markets.

Any thoughts?


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## juiced

The Palm lost its exclusivity when they decided to realise the Giant Fern AKA Palm Deira.
They do cater for two different markets, the Worlders will be the type that come to Dubai for a few months in the year, they probably work actually be working (rich, wealthy with many second homes) so they dont have to worry about daily transport to and from the shores.
The Palm is for the wealthy, but they will most likely be working in Dubai (company owners, top manangers??) and the Palm Jumeirah would be most likely where they would stay.


----------



## Imre

40 KV firms protest rent hike
By Meraj Rizvi 

29 May 2005 



DUBAI — While several international universities located at Knowledge Village (KV) will refrain this year from passing on the 30 per cent rent hike to their students, a cluster of KV partner companies running small businesses and struggling to control operating costs have voiced concern to fund the increase, forcing many to explore alternative office locations.


Around 40 KV business partners offering training and educational services with limited staff and tight budgetary constraints to remain competitive, have put their names to a petition demanding talks with the KV management to reconsider the size of the increase and the negative impact it will have on their businesses.

“The rent increase combined with maintenance charges from Dh85 to Dh110 per square feet from April 2005, will force small businesses to either pass on the raise, against their will, to clients by hiking up their service prices or close down their office,” signatories to the collective petition said.

The group of tenants claimed their petitions and several requests for a meeting with the management have failed to evoke positive response.

“We are surprised and extremely disappointed that the office of the Director General of the Dubai Technology, Electronic Commerce and Media Free Zone (Tecom) has not responded to our letters, particularly given the fact that this is an official request by 40 KV business partners to obtain clarification from Tecom concerning their delivery of our business services,” said a KV partner spokesman.

Although, KV management in its web site claims to provide help to business partners to run their businesses smoothly, the spokesman disclosed, “refraining to meet collectively with KV partners to discuss the rent increase is anything but a hassle-free experience.”

Another signatory to the petition pointed out that rent hike is only one of the issues faced by KV business partners.

“There is lack of accountability and transparency on the part of KV management, inefficient services and maintenance provided to partners, and poor construction quality with cracks in the buildings already visible in just over two years of the KV infrastructure built,” said the tenant who spoke on condition of anonymity.

He said: “When we first agreed to move in to Knowledge Village we were told that rents would be considerably cheaper than in Dubai Media City and Dubai Internet City, because of the types of organisations that operate here. But once maintenance fees had been added to the rent we ended up paying only four dirhams per square foot less than other Free Zone properties.”

Apart from high rents, the tenant explained that operating a business from KV involved a trade licence issued by Tecom. A decision to move out of KV would mean cancellation of the trade licence resulting in a huge financial loss.

“For companies operating on the mainland in Dubai there are rules concerning how much one can put up in rent in a year and there is a rent committee you can turn to if you have a complaint. Here there are no tribunals. They have their own rules,” the tenant complained, stating it was impossible to operate under the circumstances. “At the same time, it’s difficult to move out of KV leaving us with no choice but to either close down business, or absorbing the increase and intensifying our struggle to survive with increased operational costs.”

When contacted, the KV management refused to comment.

However, in a letter to tenants on December 30, 2004, the KV claimed that it needed to increase rent charges in response to inflation.

“In addition to the rent increase for 2005, we will implement another rent increase for 2006,” the letter stated.

Some are miffed, some are not
REPUTED offshore university campuses located in Knowledge Village (KV) have expressed concern over the 30 per cent rent hike which is standard for all KV business partners. However, they aired apprehensions of passing the hike over to their students by raising tuition fees in the new academic year.

A source at BITS Pilani and MAHE, two of the reputed Indian institutions which have campuses in KV, said: “The rent increase will put on hold our proposed salary hike of faculty and staff. Several services to students and faculty will also have to be put on hold temporarily to absorb the rent hike, since we do not want to roll it over to our students.”

The source said the objective of their institution is to cater largely to expat students from middle income groups whose families cannot afford to send their children back home for higher education. “KV is a good address for education institutions, but if the rent hike continues for another year, we will have to consider moving to an independent campus in the Academic City as early as possible,” it said.

Professor Nick van der Walt, CEO of University of Wollongong in Dubai (UOWD), however, did not rule out a proposed increase in tuition fees in the new academic year. “But, a fee hike cannot be attributed to the rent hike in KV. Our academic fee review is usually carried out during this time of year annually and a number of areas will be looked into before a decision to revise fees is taken at UOWD. It is a bit early to tell the decision of the review committee,” he said. 

UOWD which occupies two buildings in KV will continue its operations smoothly with no major impact on staff and faculty recruitment or introduction of new programmes and courses, Nick added.

An official of the SP Jain Centre of Management said the rent hike will not have a sweeping effect on his institution because “our long term plans include moving to the Academic City.”

“Ours is a very different model and does not operate in a normal environment since most of the faculty is visiting faculty and involves technology in classrooms for teaching,” he said.

The official believes there will be a little noise initially on the rent hike, but it will settle down and institutions will learn to survive with all the odds. 


...
Could anybody tell me how much is it today ?
Rent:
- 1 and 2 B/R in Dubai Marina 
- 1 and 2 B/R in Deira or Bur Dubai
- 2 and 3 B/R villa in Jumeirah 

Thanks


----------



## juiced

I checked the property pages for you.

1Br in Marina for Dhs80000
2Br for Dhs 100000

1br in Deira or Bur Dubai for Dhs 40000
2br for Dhs70000

3br in Jumeirah for Dhs120000


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## Imre

Thank you.. prices go higher..


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## Dubai_Steve

A new law streamlining ties between landlords and tenants will be published soon, Saeed Mohammad Al Gandi, Chairman of the Rents Committee at Dubai Municipality, said on Saturday. 

On his part, Shaikh Hamdan Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Deputy Ruler of Dubai and Minister of Finance and Industry and Chairman of Dubai Municipality called on the Rents Committee's chairman and members to look into disputes between tenants and landlords and protect the rights of each party, Gulf News reported.


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## DarkBlueBoss

^ none effective , "look" into disputes , thats doesnt help, there should be a LAW in which it states the maximum allowed rent increase annually, i remember in Dubai, it used to be 10% maximum a year, and thats only after 2 years of renting the property, but with this real estate boom, that law kinda faded away, or I guess, is being "looked" into
(i.e. my office rent went from 65K to 100K and nothing could be done about it, and the landlord was actually asking 135K) so go figure 
a friend of mind had a small work shop, his rent went from 35K, to 90K, thats almost 300% increase, go figure again (they are "looking" into it)


----------



## Imre

Be aware of unnamed projects !


Brit jailed over ‘dream project’ in Dubailand
By Mohsen Rashid 

30 May 2005 



DUBAI — Mazhar Akthar, a British national, spun a web to trap several businessmen and doctors to invest in what he termed as a ‘dream project’ in Dubailand, and swindled several hundred thousand dirhams. He is now cooling his heels in prison and set to face more court cases.


Having found guilty of fraud by a criminal court, and set to face civil court, Akthar is already facing a one year jail term. One of his victims, Sulaiman Al Kharashi, a Saudi national, will be filing a chargesheet against the man in the civil court, for duping him.

Kharashi’s law firm — Al Obaidi and Saud Al Zarooni — said Akthar had conned and duped their client of his money, claiming that he was coming up with a massive project in Dubailand, including construction of towers.

The plot of land that he claimed was in his legal possession had, in fact, received only initial approval and did not have the final approval.

To cheat the unsuspecting customers, Akthar rented out a luxurious office in a prominent hotel with a full complement of secretarial staff and other frills. He produced pictures of himself fixing flags on the land and even showed a book issued by Dubailand to prove that he had obtained approval for the land.

Many businessmen, doctors and other investors fell victim to his con game, and coughed up huge amounts towards the real estate deal with the assurance that the returns would not be less than 30 per cent.

Al Kharashi, however, smelt a rat, and began questioning Akthar about the project and his credentials. Whenever he demanded of Akthar to return the money, the latter would come up with some excuse, the lawyers said. Al Kharashi finally lodged a complaint with the police, accusing Akthar of cheating him.

The law enforcement authorities arrested the accused, even as he was attempting to leave the country from Abu Dhabi airport. He was produced before the criminal court, which found him guilty of fraud charges and sentenced him to one year in jail, besides referring the case to the competent civil court.

Al Kharashi’s lawyers, recounting the fraud played by Akthar, said he had successfully managed to dupe several persons by making impressive presentations of architectural designs of the project, launching a massive publicity campaign and even arranging a grand inaugural function in a posh hotel. Akthar had obtained the initial approval from Dubailand authorities, but could not get the final approval, since he did not meet several requirements, including completion of some works, Saud Al Zarooni said, adding that the accused also tried to placate his client by offering him a post-dated cheque for the amount he owed him.

Among Akthar’s victims, according to the lawyer, was an Irishman, who had parted with Dh1.5 million, and two doctors, who gave him Dh450,000 each. One person, however, got wise in the last moment, and saved himself and his associates Dh180 million, which they had put together for the purchase of two towers. The lucky person, a UAE legal adviser, pulled out in the last minute, not falling to Akthar’s charm and guile.


----------



## Nomad

What do you guys think of this article ?

Dubai property: Scenario in 2007 
http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=93520

Please comment...


----------



## malec

I'd love to be able to comment on this properly but I just don't know enough about real estate to answer properly.I'll give my opinion anyway.I don't know where he got the "800,000 people needed to fill everything" though? The marina is designed for around 100,000 people isn't it? Then add all the meadows, arabian ranches and all that stuff and you still don't have that. 

"It is tragic that some developers have manipulated demand and misled the market with fake "sold out" projects, phony sales figures and wildly inflating prices by keeping units in inventory"
I've heard some stories about this kind of stuff though and it's not looking good at all. An example is when one source said Nakheel sold 100 world islands while another source said they sold only 40. This kind of stuff really worries me and I don't know why the hell they do it.

About filling the marina though and the prices. I'd say that in 2008 when this is finished and there's an oversupply they'll have to sell all this so the prices should come down. Then more people will move in as more people will be able to afford it. Another worrying thing for me however is when the 2nd batch of housing units appear with the massive projects like the waterfront, palm deira and the airport city. That'll need almost 2,000,000 people to fill. I've no idea how that would work. As the guy in the article said there's too much being built for the upper and middle class but not enough for the lower class.

I'm surprised though because couldn't someone make a load of money by building cheap housing as there'd be loads of demand?

Again this is just my opinion and I don't really know how this all works. I only come to this forum because I like skyscrapers. Waiting some replies from the UAE forumers aswell though.


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## juiced

The Palm Jumeirah - estimated 4,900 housing units and 15,500 people
The Palm Jebel Ali - estimated 6,400 housing units and 20,000 people
The World - consisting of 250 islands ranging from 250,000 - 900,000 square feet strategically positioned to form the shape of the world map available to individuals and investors
Jumeirah Lake Towers - estimated 5,000 housing units and 18,500 people
International City - estimated 21,000 housing units and 60,000 people
Dubai Marina - estimated 14,000 housing units and 50,000 people
Emirates Hills - estimated 621 housing units and 2,200 people
The Meadows - estimated 1,800 housing units and 6,300 people
The Springs - estimated 3,888 housing units and 13,600 people
The Greens - estimated 800 housing units and 2,800 people
Arabian Ranches - estimated 1,800 housing units and 6,300 people
Burj Dubai - Part of the Burj Dubai development, this will be the world's tallest tower
Emaar Towers - estimated 168 housing units
The Garden View Villas - estimated 208 housing units and 750 people
Dubai Pearl - estimated 2,000 housing units and 25,000 people.
Jumeirah Beach Residence - estimated 6,000 housing units and 21,000 people


----------



## juiced

Green Community - estimated 600 housing units and 2,100 people
UP Town Mirdiff - residential and retail shopping covering 350,000 square feet area
The Lakes - estimated 231 housing units and 850 people
The Gardens - estimated 3,828 housing units and 13,400 people


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## John-Dory

Nomad said:


> What do you guys think of this article ?
> 
> Dubai property: Scenario in 2007
> http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=93520
> 
> Please comment...


Oh..No...the sky is falling in and its going to land on Dubai!!

Settle down people. Rents and sales will slow or stop in 2007-2008 thats for sure. But there will be a 2009 you know and a 2010 after that and a 2011..etc..


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## juiced

First of all it's a good thing Khaleej Times had the guts to write something like that, well done.
Secondly, I think there are some interesting points made there, but I don't think it will be such a dramatic crash, but there will be a slowdown for sure.


----------



## Imre

juiced said:


> The Palm Jumeirah - estimated 4,900 housing units and 15,500 people
> The Palm Jebel Ali - estimated 6,400 housing units and 20,000 people
> The World - consisting of 250 islands ranging from 250,000 - 900,000 square feet strategically positioned to form the shape of the world map available to individuals and investors
> Jumeirah Lake Towers - estimated 5,000 housing units and 18,500 people
> International City - estimated 21,000 housing units and 60,000 people
> Dubai Marina - estimated 14,000 housing units and 50,000 people
> Emirates Hills - estimated 621 housing units and 2,200 people
> The Meadows - estimated 1,800 housing units and 6,300 people
> The Springs - estimated 3,888 housing units and 13,600 people
> The Greens - estimated 800 housing units and 2,800 people
> Arabian Ranches - estimated 1,800 housing units and 6,300 people
> Burj Dubai - Part of the Burj Dubai development, this will be the world's tallest tower
> Emaar Towers - estimated 168 housing units
> The Garden View Villas - estimated 208 housing units and 750 people
> Dubai Pearl - estimated 2,000 housing units and 25,000 people.
> Jumeirah Beach Residence - estimated 6,000 housing units and 21,000 people


Juiced !

Where did you find this details?


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## juiced

I have my sources


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## Admiror

Scary article, Nomad :soapbox:


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## Dubai_Steve

The article Nomad posted is irrelevant for the majority of properties on the marina. Most of them eg. JBR, Marina Heights etc. will all be rented out to holiday tourists so the popuplation increase required does not apply. Rents will not go down for these properties. However, the villas and so on may not be rented out so easily. Also, these properties will not all be complete in 2007-2008 many of them will not be ready to much later - look at Ocean Heights constructions hasnt even begun. I dont see the bubble happenening it will just be a slow down for a couple of years in 07,08 while the population increases. Think long term and its all irrelevant there will be huge price increases - but speculators should be careful in the next 2 years.


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## Dubai_Steve

"Abdullah AbdulRahim, Director of Dubai Municipality's Planning and Survey Department, was quoted as saying by Khaleej Times on Wednesday that "It is ideal that rents in Dubai should not cost more than 25 per cent of a resident's income, though presently it stands at 40 per cent or higher." 

In its report last year, the Planning and Survey Department had warned that players in the real estate sector in the emirate were investing in luxury apartments and villas while shying away from housing for low-income group. "


25 % seems very low - most people I know in the UK have mortgages which are more than 50% of their total net income. 40% sounds like residents are have a big party with all that spare cash each month.


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## juiced

Steve even though I think IMHO it is the norm for expats to have housing allowance many don't, and even though 40% might not be much you have to remember that many have kids and all schools here a fee-paying, and many dont get car allowances and have to buy their own cars, etc, so it adds up to more than 40% just to survive.

BTW, you can now buy Palm Deira villas in the secondary market for *100,000dhs* less than the original price. Looks like some people are getting desperate and we are in the 'correction' phase as they like to call it.


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## Dubai_Steve

Palm Deira is not popular with expats that is why the price has gone down. Palm Jumeirah on the other hand is still selling very fast. eg. the fairmont is almost sold out because investors see the potential. Diera just isnt popular (yet) because it is a Fern Diera with too many leaves and is in the wrong part of town for expats.

Most people in the UK also pay more than 50% of net income for a mortgage, thats why they drive clapped out vauxhalls and send their children to state schools rather than BMW and Mercedes and public schools. Although I know of a few who have to eat bread & jam for dinner but send their children to public school. I dont think 60% of net income to buy food,car and education is anything to complain about compared to what is going on in the UK. 
Altough I agree in a perfect world 25% would be ideal


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## Dubai_Steve

Sales of land plots worth $199m this week underlined the red hot nature of the Dubai property market. The Dubai Lands & Properties Department said the largest deal was for a $33m plot in Al Barsha 1. Agents said trading in the re-sale market was at record levels with little sign of a summer slowdown this year.


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## juiced

Housing supply will not catch up with demand in Dubai for at least another five years, leading to continued upward pressure on rents, according to Abdullah AbdulRahim, Director of Planning Department at Dubai Municipality. “It will be five years before there is an adjustment in rents,” said AbdulRahim, speaking on the sidelines of a seminar he presented for Dubai Property Group about the masterplan for Dubai.

It was natural for Dubai landlords to try to make as much as they could during this period of high demand, and limited supply, he said. “They are businessmen,” he said. “This is their time.” But rents should not be more than 25 per cent of an individual’s wages, he said. “Currently, there are people spending up to 50 per cent, and more, on rent. This is unacceptable.”

Low-cost housing is being developed in Al Quoz and Al Qusais for people living on between dhs1,500 to dhs2,000 per month. The Municipality is building the first phase of the development, but hopes to use third-party developers for the rest. However, developers charged with creating affordable housing in the past have not kept to their remit Note by Juiced: Are they talking about JBR here?, and have appealed to the high end, so as to maximise their returns, said AbdulRahim.

Market forces tend to push up the prices of rents whatever they are released onto the market for in the first place, he said. “We have to make sure that the person we rent to does not sub-let the place for double the rent and live on the street,” he said. “If we find this happening, we will take the property away."

His department, which acts as a co-ordinating body for the whole of the Municipality, is concerned about inflation throughout the Emirate, and is preparing a paper to present to the economic committee on how to tackle the problem.

AbdulRahim also warned Dubai residents not to expect any let up in traffic in the growing city. “In mega-cities, you have to live with traffic,” he said. “The difference between successful and unsuccessful cities is how you reduce the effect of it.”“The main solution for traffic is building of community and neighbourhood facilities that are within easy reach of people wherever they are,” he said.

http://www.7days.ae/content/view/2176/3/


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## Nomad

Nomad said:


> What do you guys think of this article?
> 
> Dubai property: Scenario in 2007
> http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=93520
> 
> Please comment...


Here's my opinion:



> ...
> Which real estate buyer in his right mind would buy an apartment
> in the Dubai Marina for land valued at 1,000 AED a square
> foot when he can own a landed property a stone's throw
> away with land cost at 125 Dirhams? The Meadows is
> next to DIC, DMC, Knowledge Village.
> ...


Distance wise, the nearest villas to the Marina from the Meadows 
are in Meadows 2 (and probably Meadows 1), and these are not
a stone's throw away, so that's not a valid comparison.
A more realistic comparison would be with
the villas on the Marina itself. 

Here's an example I found for a villa on offer from Dubai
Properties web site: (Date found: 2.6.2005)

A MarinaScape Marina Home Villa 
3 Bedrooms - 5,134 sq ft (477 m sq) 
AED 6,118,200, (USD $ 1,665,859, GBP £ 874,029) 
AED 1,191 (USD $325, GBP £173 ) per sq ft.

This is nowhere near the 125 Dirhams stated in the article.



> ...
> I noticed that apartments in the Marina are priced at an implicit
> land cost of 1,000 dirhams (AED) a square foot.. Villas in the
> Meadows, the fabled Street of Dreams, were available at 2.2
> million AED. This would be an 8000 square foot plot and
> 4000 sq ft built area. Obviously, either land in the Meadows
> villas is being given away for nothing or the apartments are
> wildly overpriced. All over the world, from Bombay's Marine
> Drive to Hong Kong to San Francisco to Clifton, land cost is
> three or four times more than apartments in the same
> beachfront/seafront area. Yet Meadows villa land costs are
> one-eighth those in Marina apartment?
> ...


Here are a few prices I found on the internet for similar sort of
Marina apartments: (Date found: 2.6.2005)

3 Bed, 2,567 sq ft, LA MER, Hong Kong, 
Price: USD $3,598,972- (AED 13,208,000-) AED 5,145- per sq ft.
3 Bed 1,808 sq ft, LA MER, Hong Kong,
Price: USD $2,570,694- (AED 9,434,000) AED 5,218- per sq ft.

4 Bed, 1,720 sq ft, San Fran Bay
Price: USD $3,650,000- (AED 13,395,000) AED 7,788- per sq ft.
4 Bed, 2,290 sq ft, San Fran Bay
Price: USD $6,000,000- (AED 22,020,000) AED 9,615- per sq ft.

And Dubai Marina apartments definitely looked more impressive than some
of the photos in these ads. 
Now compared to these prices, 1000 Dirham (USD $273) per sq ft
at Dubai Marina doesn’t look that expensive.



> …
> This means the supply overhang is at least 180,000 new units even
> assuming no projects are announced in the next two years. So
> 200,000 new units in 2007-8 is a very conservative forecast for
> new supply.
> …


Not all construction work started simultaneously, 
and the completion will also happen gradually, so there will not
be a “200,000 unit hit” as stated in the article.

Also the fact that Dubai is spending billions to become a tourist 
hub is not even mentioned once in the article. Tourism 
will have a significant impact on demand, at least
for the short term rental demand.

Furthermore the article ignores the fact that there is a
significant number of cash buyers in Dubai property market,
who can afford to sit on their investments for much longer
and this makes the market more resilient to a downturn.


----------



## smussuw

juiced said:


> AbdulRahim also warned Dubai residents not to expect any let up in traffic in the growing city. “In mega-cities, you have to live with traffic,” he said. “The difference between successful and unsuccessful cities is how you reduce the effect of it.”“The main solution for traffic is building of community and neighbourhood facilities that are within easy reach of people wherever they are,” he said.
> 
> http://www.7days.ae/content/view/2176/3/


They always try to find an excuse for the traffic by saying that dubai is a booming city. :cheers:


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## arfie

Any body interested in purchasing in Dubai just drop me an email on [email protected] and I will help you purchase your dream home in dubai.


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## juiced

What company do you work with, arfie?


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## arfie

Working for buydubaiproperty. So anyone need a hand in purchasing in dubai just mail me on:- 

[email protected]


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## butterfly

There's just so much crap being thrown about in Dubai just for the sake of selling an apartment or villa. I won't mention names but even the DIFC isn't safe from this. One of the projects recently launched promised its buyers they could sell once they paid 10% downpayment. Once they bought it and the cheques were cashed they turned around and said sorry you have to pay 30% before you can resell. 

There's 2,500 real estate agents in Dubai out of which only approximately 500 are active. Almost the whole of the new development in DIFC was sold to only 9-10 investors. Tells you alot about the so-called drop in speculators. 

One of Dubai's most well known agents which have offices in Jumeirah are selling 4 towers in JLT exclusively. All have similar prices and locations. How the heck can you offer something as 'better' for a buyer then? Where's the business ethics of having a property you call 'exclusive'? 

There's a crash coming alright, and its not just the prices!


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## juiced

butterfly said:


> There's 2,500 real estate agents in Dubai out of which only approximately 500 are active. Almost the whole of the new development in DIFC was sold to only 9-10 investors. Tells you alot about the so-called drop in speculators.


 :eek2: :eek2: Really? How did you hear about this? If you dont want to reveal your source(s) in public just PM me. A whole development to just 9-10 investors/companies is a little dangerous. 



> There's a crash coming alright, and its not just the prices!


I think it will start later this year or early 06.


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## Imre

UAE among most competitive countries in world

Staff Report
Dubai :

The UAE is among the most competitive countries in the world and a haven for businesses, as per rankings contained in the Global Competitive Report 2004-05 issued by the World Economic Forum.

Dubai in particular was judged as holding a rank higher than many other developed countries in many crucial factors, and even surpassing them.

The UAE ranked third with regard to the organised effort to improve competitiveness, and second globally after Bahrain regarding the tax burden on enterprises.

"The Marginal Efficiency of Investment in the UAE is high and, combined with low rate of interest, will stimulate investment, leading to higher volume of domestic and foreign trade, and to rapid economic development," the report said.

Developed countries like Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States placed 13th, 17th and 20th respectively with regard to organised effort to improve competitiveness.

On the tax burden count, the UAE was adjudged at 1.6 per cent, narrowly behind Bahrain's 1.5 per cent.

All other states worldwide were estimated to impose a higher percentage of tax burden on their enterprises.


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## Admiror

I have a question.What is the usual way to deal with the situation in which somebody has not been able to pay his installemnts on time? I mean does it vary from one project to the other or its kinda uniform.Also it would be useful to know if there have been any court cases regarding this and what was the outcome.How easy it is for a develepor to forefeite the money of the customers who have not been able to pay on time?? :eat:


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## Imre

I checked my contracts and it said , I have to pay some interest for late .


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## arfie

Yeap most developers in the contract will say interest to be paid on installments not kept up. However this is a common problem in Dubai at the moment alot of people have bought apartments and have struggled to either get finance or off load the property. In some cases like GIGA will refund customers if they cannot get finance. I know alot of people that have bought in Marina Diamond not keep up with there payments and the developer has not chased up yet.


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## juiced

arfie said:


> Yeap most developers in the contract will say interest to be paid on installments not kept up. However this is a *common problem in Dubai at the moment alot of people have bought apartments and have struggled to either get finance or off load the property*. In some cases like GIGA will refund customers if they cannot get finance. I know alot of people that have bought in Marina Diamond not keep up with there payments and the developer has not chased up yet.


 :runaway: :runaway: That is insane! How can anyone not say Dubai is in for a huge crash if something like that is true, especially when AMEinfo said up to 85% of apartments and 50% of villas were bought by spec'ers


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## arfie

Not really I just thinking the finance ( mortgage ) structure will need to be revamped this summer and that will help to pick up the market. I dont see the market crashing its too strong in Dubai for this to happen at the moment.


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## Imre

Dubai targets 59 per cent urban growth of by 2015
Dubai Property Group (DPG), the association of professionals involved in the region's fastest-growing real estate market in Dubai, hosted Dubai Municipality in a seminar attended by over 130 DPG members and non-members.









Abdullah Abdul Rahim, Director of Dubai Municipality's planning and survey department. 



Abdullah Abdul Rahim, Director of Dubai Municipality's planning and survey department presented Dubai's Master Plan with an emphasis on urbanization and community planning. 

Speaking to the delegates at the event, Abdul Rahim said: "Observing Dubai's ultra modern skyline today and the plans for development, it is difficult to imagine that just 20 years ago there was a vast desert instead of today's modern city. Residential land use occupies the largest percentage of land in Dubai with 30.0 per cent, roads are 19.3 per cent, industrial occupy 14.2 per cent, government, institutions, sports/recreation institutions occupy about 12.8 per cent." 

In 1993, the developed area in Dubai constituted 149.6 square kilometers, and in 2005, it grew to 244 square kilometers, and in 2015, the urbanized area is expected to grow to 604.8 square kilometers, or a growth rate of 59 per cent as compared to 2005. The Municipality has therefore begun taking steps to insure that this brink growth does not affect environmental elements. 

'Preservation of environmental and rural areas from urban expansion is an important factor in Dubai's overall Master Plan. Preventing unplanned growth outside urban areas and protecting the city's water supply in the aquifer zone and underground water reservoirs is essential,' he continued. 

In terms of financial responsibility for the city's infrastructure, the Municipality bears about 66 percent including 33.5 percent for roads and leveling, while DEWA bears 29 percent and Eitsalat 5 percent of the total cost. The development cost for residential areas for one hector is about 750,000 Dirhams. 

Adel Lootah, Executive Director of Dubai Property Group, said: 'Dubai Property Group members are leading real estate players and have a role to play in the development of Dubai's infrastructure. Our purpose here is to act as a mediator between the private and the public sector and to raise issues of concern and mutual benefit. On behalf of DPG members I would like to take this opportunity to commend the hard work and intensive planning that the Municipality is doing.' 

Independent of favor or influence, DPG represents the combined interests of Dubai's real estate community. The Group's 91 members include some of the highest profile real estate players in Dubai, such as the Dubai Development Board, Cluttons chartered surveyors and property consultants, Arenco Real Estate, Union Properties PJSC, Better Homes LLC and facilities management firm Asteco Property Management LLC. 

Apart from the on going monthly 'Awareness and Networking' events and as a part of its services to improve and grow member benefits and increase their business potential, DPG provides advertising opportunities through its website, newsletters and exclusive agreements with UAE based media, aimed at helping members reach larger and more diverse audiences be they business related or the general public. The Group also regularly puts together training and educational packages and seminars.


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## DubaiDream

Yes there may be some form of correction in the short term, and people may be able to pick up the properties at more atractive prices, but there might not be a correction or any correction might be fairly mild, and given the attractiveness of dubai as a long term term investment, most people are not willing to take the risk of not having a significant exposure to dubai. i.e most people believe the potential upside long term significantly outweighs any potential short term downside. as someone said, "the biggest risk is not to take a risk" And God knows Best!


----------



## juiced

I really fail to see how people can say there won't be a crash in Dubai.


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## Dubai_Steve

10 reasons why Dubai property will boom this autumn

Dubai real estate agents report a seasonal slowdown. But doom-mongers are trying to make this something it is not. There are still at least 10 good reasons to believe that Dubai property will boom this autumn.

1. Rents are very high
Ask anyone how much their rent has gone up in 2005; 10% and you are lucky, 50-65% if you are not. Against a background of stable to moderately rising house prices in 2005 rental yields have therefore taken a sharp upward movement. 

This attracts investors into property, while pushing those renting into buying in order to avoid future rent rises - and who says Dubai is not growing fast enough to push rents higher again in 2006? 


2. Prices are low
Compare Dubai to a prosperous UK city and you will find that house prices are around one-third per square metre; tax-free incomes in Dubai compare more than favorably with UK post-tax income levels, and borrowing costs are similar; this huge price differential clearly marks a market opportunity, not as big as it was three years' ago, but still big enough. 


3. Mortgage costs are falling
Local and international banks and financial institutions in the UAE are producing more mortgage options by the day, and the net effect is to lower the cost of borrowing. If it costs less to own a home in Dubai then this has to be good for prices. 


4. New federal law
A new federal property law is expected this autumn; this would remove a major area of uncertainty for investors and increase the pool of investors who would consider Dubai a possible investment option. More investors will be good for prices. 


5. Supply short in key areas
The inventory available from Dubai estate agents is relatively small compared to the massive influx of new residents expected and still arriving (There were 250,000 in 2004). Try to find a one-bedroom flat, it is tough even now; imagine how it will be this autumn. 


6. Demand high in key areas
The rapid expansion of Dubai as a business and trading hub for the Middle East is bringing in more and more expatriates. There is huge pressure on the existing housing stock; hence the massive rental increases this year. 


7. New supply is delayed
For all the talk of over-supply the reality on the ground is a serious shortage of accommodation. This is compounded by delays of a year or more on many high profile construction projects. 

It is a moot point as to what the impact of this supply will be eventually, but at the moment its absence is the more significant factor in the market place. 

Besides, what is being built? Is this where the most demand lies? If not, then shrewd investors can still invest wisely in the alternatives. 


8. UAE economy continues to boom
Oil revenues are sky-high, economic reform is happening fast, and Abu Dhabi will be next to invest hugely in its domestic infrastructure; Dubai will be happy to supply and contract to meet this ambition next door. 


9. Dubai is becoming famous
No city in the world is presently more successful at marketing itself than Dubai. Foreign investors are already active buyers of local property and may buy more. Dubai has advantages as a tax haven. These are only just being recognized. 


10. There are still too many skeptics
Consider this view of market psychology; in any investment market the top can only be truly called when almost all the participants are convinced that they can not loose. This is not yet true of Dubai property. 

There are many skeptics; otherwise this article would simply be stating the obvious. Indeed, a few skeptics have cashed out this summer; perhaps when they are buying back into the market in a year or two's time that is the moment to be really nervous! 

To give an example, last August in the UK almost everyone was confident about property, and prices have been falling since then - Dubai property just has not reached this critical inflection point. The cycle is not at the top.


----------



## juiced

The market will crash in 2006-7, and fall back down to more realistic levels. And I don't see the point of that article in comparing Dubai to a UK city, what point was trying to be made I am not sure.
So if a property in the Bikini Islands in the Pacific is cheaper than California, all of a sudden everyone is going to buy there just like that??
:bash:


----------



## DarkBlueBoss

^ makes alot more sense than the article, i predict a crash as well, hopefully sooner than 2007,


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The Bikini Islands won't have a DubaiLand or Burj Dubai or the largest shopping mall or the ......


----------



## juiced

The entire Bikini Islands wouldn't also be bought by about 50 individuals and companies in 24 hours and put on the market a few months later a la Jumeirah Village style.


----------



## Imre

..


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> 4. New federal law
> A new federal property law is expected this autumn; this would remove a major area of uncertainty for investors and increase the pool of investors who would consider Dubai a possible investment option. More investors will be good for prices.
> 
> 
> .


This is very important because many big international property founds want to buy properties in Dubai what is more want to invest lot of money in lands , apartments and commercial properties but the law is not too clear now.


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> 10 reasons why Dubai property will boom this autumn
> 
> 
> 9. Dubai is becoming famous
> No city in the world is presently more successful at marketing itself than Dubai. Foreign investors are already active buyers of local property and may buy more. Dubai has advantages as a tax haven. These are only just being recognized.


Dubai will get more advert next year because start Dubai Team in the Formula One.


----------



## arfie

have to say currently the market is pretty flat. Not many people in the UK at the moment enquiring properties in Dubai like last year. I think its just got abit expensive for some people. I can certainly see prices falling on certain developments. Arabian Ranches are an excellent buy at the moment still and they will go up in prices. If anyone wants any info just mail me on [email protected]


----------



## juiced

Why do you think that way of the AR in particular?


----------



## arfie

When DubaiLand is built it will shoot up prices near that area and Arabian Ranches will be hot stuff for rental also as this where large families will come and stay when they want to visit Dubai land.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Many UK investors are still waiting for the freehold law and easier mortgages.
Don't think there will be another big property rush until these are sorted out.

As an example - the torch is doing well because it comes with a mortgage option.
So investors can take the risk that rental income will be available to pay the mortgage and so dont need to budget for mortgage payments. 

If you apply with Tamweel or HSBC you have to prove affordability and can't take rental guarantees into account. So this excludes a huge potential market. Dubai would be wise to do something here!

In the UK you can get a buy to let mortgage for just 15% deposit and no proof of income so long as rental income is 125%+ of mortgage payment. Dubai needs to follow suit if it wants another property boom. 

Otherwsie we need to wait until the other developments come such as DubaiLand or the Marina become more complete ad not a building site - then prices will go up again.

arfe, agree with you on Arabian Ranches - demand and hence prices should go up when DubaiLand arrives. Will be like Orlando where anthing a few miles from Disney is in demand.


----------



## Imre

Abu Dhabi Property Boom 
15-Jun-2005 

The 363 town houses and villas offered by Aldar Properties at the Al Raha Gardens Abu Dhabi were completely sold out in less than an hour as hundreds of investors rushed to buy homes in Abu Dhabi yesterday. "The first phase of the development was sold out within 45 minutes this morning," said Ahmad Ali Al Sayegh, Chairman, Aldar Properties. "This has been a tremendous success for Aldar and it marks our first step in meeting the pent-up demand for nationals to purchase their own accommodation." 

Shaikh Surour Bin Mohammad Al Nahyan, Chairman of the Presidential Court, visited the Al Raha Gardens Sales Centre and reflected that "Such a development has been long awaited in Abu Dhabi. The concept and specifications are of an extremely high standard".

The sale of the Al Raha Gardens was based on the first-come-first-served basis. Around 600 people queued since 11pm on Monday and there was a massive crowd waiting when the doors finally opened. The town houses and villas cost between $380,000 and $817,000 and are being offered to the UAE nationals only.


Al Raha Garden community has been modelled on a true urban village ideology; the development will provide convenient retail amenities, car free streetscapes and a supporting infrastructure of prestigious schools. Another particular feature of the development will be the Polo Hotel and polo club. The overall design theme will reflect the traditional Arab heritage, along with contemporary specifications offering contemporary convenience. 

The development will be sold in phases during the next 12 months, with construction of each phase being completed in 20 months. Unlike phase one which was solely for the UAE Nationals, subsequent phases may be offered to expatriates in line with any changes in Abu Dhabi property laws that may be ratified in the future.


----------



## DUBAI

lol, perhaps we should all put a bit of money together and buy an ad in the gulf news. for a 20 story tower. put a map of dubai there with about 6 arrows pointing to different parts of town. we could also include a cartoon sketch of a tower.

i propse...."the juiced tower"


----------



## DubaiDream

Drive along the Sheikh Zayed Road and you can not fail to see the longest-ever billboard advertising Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank's entry into the mortgage market. But this is the first sign of an explosion in mortgage offerings to come this autumn.
Saturday, June 11 - 2005 at 10:00
Bankers are cautious folk who make money minimizing risk rather than taking risks. They have thus been slow to come forward with mortgages for Dubai property. But all this is about to change. 

The present mortgage market in Dubai is dominated by the developer-lenders Amlak Finance (partly-owned by Emaar Properties) and Tamweel (a joint venture between Dubai Islamic Bank and a Government investment body) with strong links to Nakheel. Alongside these new lenders are the banks: RakBank, HSBC and Mashreqbank, and most recently the National Bank of Dubai and the Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank. 

The arrival of the last two UAE banks is enough in itself to portend a competitive market this autumn. But there are others about to launch as well, including at least one major international bank, and more local banks. 

Thus far competition has tended to take the form of lower interest rates to new borrowers, albeit for a limited period. The existing lenders have been aided by the falling cost of long-term borrowing this year, as the UAE monetary policy effectively follows that of the USA with the dirham pegged to the US dollar. 

Indeed, there is probably scope for tighter pricing yet, particularly if some new entrants decide to take a loss on initial lending to gain market share against the incumbents. However, the greater volume of business needed to justify lower mortgage rates is also likely to occur this autumn as lending to the re-sale market gets into full swing. 

For the 'buy or rent' equation has swung decisively in favor of buying rather than renting: many current tenants are concerned about their likely rent rises next year; while the cost of a monthly mortgage is falling. So more-and-more people are going to want mortgages to buy Dubai property which will put downward pressure on operational costs for the banks. 

It is going to be interesting to see how long this particular phase of cheap property remains on offer in the Dubai market. There may be such a rush to invest that prices take off vertically, until demand is back in equilibrium with supply. Or the market may remain skeptical of the prospects for Dubai real estate and hold off buying. 

However, if the case for buying rather than renting stacks up, then the availability of finance is the next factor to be faced by most prospective buyers. So having a wider range of options in the mortgage market, and flexible lending to suit a variety of individual circumstances is essential, and likely in itself to stimulate real estate activity. 

Fortunately the UAE banks appear to have recognized the huge market opportunity for them in financing Dubai property, and are strongly committed to developing a competitive mortgage market. 

Naturally they will feel even more comfortable if and when a federal property law emerges, and that should also have a favorable impact on the mortgage sector.


----------



## Imre

This is just speculation now....


----------



## mc

Nomad said:


> Published: 16/7/2005, 07:26 (UAE)
> 
> New property law may deny freehold rights to foreigners
> 
> By Saifur Rahman, Staff Reporter
> 
> Dubai :
> The new federal law, expected to be issued this year, may fall short of allowing freehold ownership of properties to foreigners, industry sources said.
> 
> It might offer a 99-year leasehold to foreign buyers.
> 
> "What we hear is not freehold, but a 99-year leasehold ownership extended to foreigners," said a UAE national developer.http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/BusinessNF.asp?ArticleID=173254



this is disturbing to say the least and most dfntly not what investors would like to hear. If they do not issue a federal law allowing foreigners full ownership ....than it seems to me the 99 year lease option is more like a gap and trap.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Whats wrong with a 99 year lease - this is what you buy in the UK when you buy a flat/apartment.


----------



## Imre

What is is the situation after 99 years ?


----------



## Imre

Timeshare laws for Dubai
United Arab Emirates: 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
The Dubai Government is expected to issue legislation governing the timeshare industry in the emirate by December, reported Gulf News. This will allow Dubai to offer timeshare accomodation for sale. Around the world some 7m people own timeshares.


----------



## DubaiDream

Dubai_Steve said:


> Whats wrong with a 99 year lease - this is what you buy in the UK when you buy a flat/apartment.


A 99 year leashold as ooposed to a freehold/commonhold would be disastrous, the expected capital gain over the life of the investment would follow a different pattern


----------



## ChrisO

What happens if the property is sold after 10 years. Does the new owner get another 99 years or just 89 years? If he gets 99 years, one could just sell the property back and forth and thus add another 99 years.

This leasehold concept is wierd...


----------



## DubaiDream

ChrisO said:


> What happens if the property is sold after 10 years. Does the new owner get another 99 years or just 89 years? If he gets 99 years, one could just sell the property back and forth and thus add another 99 years.
> 
> This leasehold concept is wierd...


No i assume the leasehold in dubai would operate as a leasehold in England, whereby the owner will only get what ever term is remaining on the lease. When 99 years is up, the owner has to negotiate with the freehold owner to purchase another 99 year lease. I'm not sure but as i understand it there are regulations in england governing the renewal of the lease and the price paid for this. Every year you own the lease, you suffer from depreciation as a result the fact the you have one year less left.... In central london it is difficult to buy houses on freehold, they are hard to come by, and there is a significant price difference between freehold prices and leashold


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## Dubai_Steve

It is common to have a 999 year lease in the UK now instead of 99 years seeing as how the averge lifespan will be 125 now for the younger generation, who will not want the property to depreciate.


----------



## Dubai Freak

*Freehold status*

Will non-government owned property qualify for freehold status, if it is built under a project owned by a government company? Example: Non-Emaar towers built within Emaar's Marina Complex.

Marina tower developers past & present clearly advertise & contract to investors 'Freehold Status'


----------



## DubaiDream

Dubai Freak said:


> Will non-government owned property qualify for freehold status, if it is built under a project owned by a government company? Example: Non-Emaar towers built within Emaar's Marina Complex.
> 
> Marina tower developers past & present clearly advertise & contract to investors 'Freehold Status'


Hmmm, i pray that the ameinfo article is incorrect. If Freehold is solely reserved for Nakeel, Emaar & DP towers and projects, then that would piss off alot of investors who were promised freehold!!!


----------



## Imre

I think , freehold and leasehold are similar to Palm Deira canceled....rumour and speculation..


----------



## mc

Dubai_Steve said:


> Whats wrong with a 99 year lease - this is what you buy in the UK when you buy a flat/apartment.


Imo, donwplaying the significance of this article won't be advantageous in the long run whether ur an existing or a future dbx investor as myself.
Two important factors to be taken under consideration here: I think no matter how one looks at this issue - the term Leasing will never substitute the Freehold ownership title on a piece of real estate.

The concept of a 99yr lease is a stated end versus enduring forever n the freehold. The distinction here biz-wise is not only important but crucial psychologically in making markets ; besides market appreciation being confined to only term of lease which is not dfntly a plus , if a buyer would be interested in a property and that property is listed as 99LEASE as oppose to Freehold one, then buyer would stop and think hard b4 deciding ; this stoppage time and even worse eliminating it as a consideration will eventually take away liquidity from mrkts which as we all know must be two way streets in order for them to work. so - this scenario will then translate in a slow down of mrkt if not stagnancy. so I can not see how a 99L law will benefit uae gov. from an economics stand point.

second factor would be Dubai unlike London has yet to establish itself in terms of its credibility to the foreign investor, especially to the western one as place where you come in and invest without much red tape involved. so far seems theyr doing just fine except this bump which is pivotal imo.
I understand post will spark reactions since many members have already invested in Dubai , but do think it is an objective one.

ps; steve has helped tremendously in educating me initially about Dubai markets and its mechanics since I was barometering everything via US markets for which im very grateful...so this post is not about lecturing him or anyone else for that matter but rather offering my 2 cents only.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

mc, I tend to agree with you on this and take back my comment after carefull consideration.

I now believe that a 99 year lease concept would in fact be a disaster for Dubai. Especially since the rumour is freehold is to be offered only to governement backed companies such as Emaar!

Can you imagine, no one will want to buy any of the properties on the Marina anymore, instead they would only want to buy in Emaar or Nakheel towers. 

The end result - complete stagnation of the property market and a huge failure for Dubai. It seems to me that the government if thinking of pomoting its own property (Emaar / Nakheel etc.) over other private developers. This would be a very bad move for the Emirate. 

Dubai should carefully consider the outcome of such a move. I think the rumour could even have been started as a Government test to the reaction of leases.

In any case lease or freehold - the concept must be the same for all developments in order for Dubai to succeed.


----------



## dazz

come on... who cares if it's 99years or 999years, I wouldn't. 
we'll be all dead and all those buildings have already been replaced in 99years anyway... :|


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Due to technology advances, the minimum projected average lifespan for those now under 40 is 125. So everyone will be walking around homeless when they are old. :dance2:

But seriously, of course leases are renewable but the point is there is extra cost involved.

However, my main point is that the system should be the same for all apartments, not one for Nakheel and another for the torch for example.


----------



## mc

just don't think this will even make it through its initial stages in legislature if proposed into law, unless political authorities start hinting it. way too much to risk on UAE's part. It's as if they want self-distruct. doesn't make any sense really imo.


----------



## DubaiDream

mc said:


> just don't think this will even make it through its initial stages in legislature if proposed into law, unless political authorities start hinting it. way too much to risk on UAE's part. It's as if they want self-distruct. doesn't make any sense really imo.


just seems worrying that ameinfo has postulated the idea of 99 year leases, as far as i know they are not an independent think tank, and alot of what they publish is just dubai marketing material focusing on the positive points of investing in dubai. it doesnt make sense for them to publish such a negative article


----------



## Tractor

All sounds like speculation to me


----------



## Dubai_Steve

DubaiDream, AMEINFO did make a positive version of this news, see below - the previous posting was gulf news report on it. Here is the positive version:

"Speculation grows about new Dubai property law

The latest speculation is that the UAE will get a two-tier property law this autumn. The federal property law will permit 99-year leasehold for foreigners, while Dubai will keep freehold for foreigners with its own local law, at least on projects by Government-controlled developers.

This legislation is eagerly awaited by the Dubai property market. Up to now foreign buyers have bought on the understanding that their 'sale agreement' will be transferred into a title deed as soon as the law is passed. 

Observers expect another wave of buyers to enter the Dubai market as soon as this legislation is in place. At the same time, the arrival of the new property law or laws will clarify the situation for lenders, so that many more mortgage products will become available. 

Competition in the mortgage market should result in a lower cost of monthly ownership for buyers who need finance. And the arrival of more mortgage finance in the Dubai real estate sector should also be good for prices. 

Indeed, another leg to the Dubai property boom is generally anticipated after the passing of the new legislation, local and federal. There are still a lot of long-term expatriates, for example, who are unconvinced about buying in Dubai, and these should be the next to enter the market. 

At the same time, the ponderous progress of some developments is leading to a shortage of supply to meet any new upturn in demand. Every project delay is bad for supply. This should put upward pressure on prices at least in the short-term. 

However, the current thinking on local Dubai legislation does leave one glaring anomaly. It appears that freehold will be reserved for Government-controlled developers only - i.e. Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Holdings - so that private developers will have to content their buyers with 99-year leases. 

If this speculation is confirmed then two classes of tenure will be created. In fact, this already exists as Union Properties only sells on 99-year leases, and has always argued that this is the only tenure appropriate for its developments. Thus other private developers would merely be falling into line. 

But we still need to wait to see the legislation first before any solid conclusions can be drawn. On the other hand, those would-be buyers who want to close deals at the best prices should really be looking to take advantage of the quieter summer months. 

The autumn promises a far more hectic Dubai property market, particularly now that the UAE stock market has entered a correction phase, and will likely cease to interest speculators."


----------



## juiced

I disagree, I think the Ranches will be hip


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Does anyone know if this Marina project has the go ahead - each of the squares on the waterfront being a floating restaurant ?


----------



## V Kapoor

Hi Steve,

Ain't all this getting too complicated. Hope Marina won't get too cramped! The speghetti like serpentine walkways or building entwined into each other!


----------



## dubaiflo

this is an old render of the marina mall but we don't now how it looks like actually. doubt it will be like that.
btw the area is already fenced!


----------



## Mini Me

Dubai_Steve said:


> What towers did you buy in Mini Me?


two bed appt in Goldcrest views (17th floor rhs lake view) & 1 bed in New Dubai Gate1 (25th floor front lake view).


----------



## dubaiflo

Published: 8/9/2005, 08:54 (UAE) 

New Dubai property law will 'regulate freehold ownership'	

By Saifur Rahman, Staff Reporter	

Dubai: Dubai's proposed property law will boost investor confidence and attract more investment, officials said. 

Essam Al Tamimi, managing partner of Al Tamimi and Co, said, "There is lots of liquidity in the market. The law will help investors to invest freely without any doubts about their rights and privileges.

"The proposed law will establish the basic guidelines that will govern the property sector in the emirate. However, we expect bylaws to come in phases to deal with issues relating to rental, common use area, the secondary market as well as brokerage commissions.

"However, the new law, once it comes into effect, will regulate and legalise freehold ownership, land transactions and leasehold."

The law, expected to be enacted before the end of the year, is likely to grant freehold titles to foreign investors both on land and property that will be registered with Dubai's Land and Properties Department, eliminating ambiguity in the freehold mechanism and clearing doubts among investors. This will be followed by a series of bylaws regulating the rental, brokerage, mortgage and secondary market, he said.

This takes property ownership a step further than that permitted under the law announced by Abu Dhabi last month. Foreigners will be granted a 99-year leasehold on "surface properties" in designated areas. They will not be granted leasehold on lands.

Al Tamimi said the new property law announced by Abu Dhabi will encourage the other emirates to announce their land and property laws. However, the widely expected federal property law may not be on the cards.

The new property laws, he said, refer to the Civil Law or Motasaha, that guides the country's civil code, where there is any ambiguity.

"The new Dubai property law will also be in line with the UAE's Civil Law. In case of a conflict, the Civil Law takes precedence over others," he said.

The government is currently obtaining feedback from the developers on the new legislation on sensitive issues such as title deeds, land title and leasehold.

Dubai opened its property sector to foreigners in 2002 when certain developers began to offer freehold ownership to expatriates in designated areas, in the absence of proper legal and regulatory framework.

So far, more than 10,000 people have moved into freehold homes. Thousands of others are awaiting delivery in the coming months.


----------



## DubaiDream

Thanks dubaiflo, an encouraging article!


----------



## mc

"_This takes property ownership a step further than that permitted under the law announced by Abu Dhabi last month. Foreigners will be granted a 99-year leasehold on "surface properties" in designated areas. They will not be granted leasehold on lands" _ 

so, basically theyll implement AD's law. unless am reading this backwards - dont understand remark of taking it a step further.
A freehold law d'be taking it further not imitating the 99yL law, is just weird.


----------



## azimo

i wonder what the response from foreigners dubai would have had if royal fmly had promised 99 lease law to investors instead of free ownership may 02.


----------



## DubaiDream

mc said:


> "_This takes property ownership a step further than that permitted under the law announced by Abu Dhabi last month. Foreigners will be granted a 99-year leasehold on "surface properties" in designated areas. They will not be granted leasehold on lands" _
> 
> so, basically theyll implement AD's law. unless am reading this backwards - dont understand remark of taking it a step further.
> A freehold law d'be taking it further not imitating the 99yL law, is just weird.


 I read it differently, The step further is referrring to the new Dubai Freehold Law, whereas the following sentence "Foreigners will granted a...." is describing the Abu Dhabi law.


----------



## dubaiflo

exactly. read:
Abu Dhabi Law: Foreigners will be granted a 99-year leasehold on "surface properties" in designated areas. They will not be granted leasehold on lands.

Dubai law: This takes property ownership a step further than AD law.


----------



## mc

tx guys - my bad. 
in that case then this is just awesome. If they come up w/freehold dbx ll'be slammed with a new wave of investors on top of existing ones , which will liquify the mrkt even more.


----------



## dubaiflo

i don't know if there will be much difference to the current situation..
so many people waited because the law was not yet passed?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

It will make a BIG difference to UK investors - they don't trust anything and act like sheep. When freehold is law expect a property buying rush from the UK. Although it will take some time for better mortage offers to arrive.


----------



## Salty

I agree it should be a very positive development. For those of us who've lived and worked in Dubai it is not difficult to have faith in the place and rely on the Sheikh's word. Those potential investors who don't know Dubai so well will definitely be reassured when unambiguous full legal ownership is made available.

There will be lots of other positive spin-offs too - not least the arrival of proper, consistent and accurate valuation surveys on the back of mortgages offered on the basis of current real values (as opposed to the starting prices of a couple of years ago).

By the way Steve, did you have any luck selling your apartment and buying somewhere new?


----------



## mc

Salty said:


> Those potential investors who don't know Dubai so well will definitely be reassured when unambiguous full legal ownership is made available.


man, u've hit this one dead center. imo if freehold becomes law (and it seems theyr heading toward that direction and lets hope they seal the deal) it will dictate a rush on part of other investors who r just waiting on sidelines for confirmation. the impact will be dfntly positive.


----------



## mc

,,,


----------



## DubaiDream

Yes, and I expect particular demand from institutional investors who were sitting on the sideline before because of the uncertainty. More mortgage lenders will also be attracted to the market improving competition and liquidity. The sooner this law is enacted the better


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Salty said:


> By the way Steve, did you have any luck selling your apartment and buying somewhere new?


Decided to keep it since I can rent on vacation rentals making the rental yield very high! Bought a 2nd one in the Marina instead  Profits of the first will pay towards the mortgage on the 2nd.


----------



## dubaiflo

Dubai_Steve said:


> Decided to keep it since I can rent on vacation rentals making the rental yield very high! Bought a 2nd one in the Marina instead  Profits of the first will pay towards the mortgage on the 2nd.


at least thats your calculation .. 

where did you buy the 2nd one? trident grand?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The market for completed property ready for immediate occupation continues to be strong in Dubai with rents and prices still advancing, agents told AME Info. This is a notable contrast to the off-plan apartment market which has slowed down considerably in recent months.


----------



## DubaiDream

*UK Lender stops buy to lets on new flats citing oversupply*

I guess the fact that UAE banks are still willing to lend on new developments in Dubai despite fears of huge oversupply are somewhat encouraging!



Portman refuses to lend on buy-to-let new flats
By Jim Pickard,Property Correspondent 
Published: December 8 2005 02:00 | Last updated: December 8 2005 02:00

The Portman Building Society yesterday became the first lender in the UK to refuse buy-to-let mortgages on new flats in a sign of growing fears about the stability of the sector.

The Portman, third largest buy-to-let lender in the UK, said it would avoid lending on new properties until "the market forces of supply and demand" had returned to equilibrium.

The move by the group - which lends such mortgages through a subsidiary, The Mortgage Works - comes amid a 5.7 per cent fall in the price of new flats over the past year.

Matthew Wyles, group development director at The Mortgage Works, said dubious valuations of new flats were becoming "endemic". Valuation had become "more of an art than a science" because of the current oversupply of new flats.

Mr Wyles said: "Some developers are now prepared to do deals on prices outside the formal contract. In these cases the lender may be unaware of the actual price being paid and end up relying on a valuation that may in turn be based on erroneous assumptions."

To ensure a stable market most mortgage lenders allow buy-to-let mortgages only when a candidate has a large deposit, typically of 15 per cent or more.

But suspicions have been growing that buy-to-let investors have been finding ways round these restrictions - such as counting discounts as deposits. Mr Wyles said the returns in the sector no longer justified the risks.

Ian Fletcher, a director of the British Property Federation, commented: "This has long been a concern for us, that valuations were perhaps overestimating the real values of flats."

The number of flats built has leapt since 2000 under pressure from the government to build on brownfield land.


----------



## DubaiDream

*UK Lender stops buy to lets on new flats citing oversupply*

I guess the fact that UAE banks are still willing to lend on new developments in Dubai despite fears of huge oversupply are somewhat encouraging!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Portman refuses to lend on buy-to-let new flats
By Jim Pickard,Property Correspondent 
Published: December 8 2005 02:00 | Last updated: December 8 2005 02:00

The Portman Building Society yesterday became the first lender in the UK to refuse buy-to-let mortgages on new flats in a sign of growing fears about the stability of the sector.

The Portman, third largest buy-to-let lender in the UK, said it would avoid lending on new properties until "the market forces of supply and demand" had returned to equilibrium.

The move by the group - which lends such mortgages through a subsidiary, The Mortgage Works - comes amid a 5.7 per cent fall in the price of new flats over the past year.

Matthew Wyles, group development director at The Mortgage Works, said dubious valuations of new flats were becoming "endemic". Valuation had become "more of an art than a science" because of the current oversupply of new flats.

Mr Wyles said: "Some developers are now prepared to do deals on prices outside the formal contract. In these cases the lender may be unaware of the actual price being paid and end up relying on a valuation that may in turn be based on erroneous assumptions."

To ensure a stable market most mortgage lenders allow buy-to-let mortgages only when a candidate has a large deposit, typically of 15 per cent or more.

But suspicions have been growing that buy-to-let investors have been finding ways round these restrictions - such as counting discounts as deposits. Mr Wyles said the returns in the sector no longer justified the risks.

Ian Fletcher, a director of the British Property Federation, commented: "This has long been a concern for us, that valuations were perhaps overestimating the real values of flats."

The number of flats built has leapt since 2000 under pressure from the government to build on brownfield land.


----------



## mc

7 December 2005 

*Free hold properties law to be enacted next year*


ABU DHABI — The bye-laws of the landmark free property law may be enacted as early as the first quarter of 2006, a senior government official said. This would enable expatriates to own free hold properties on 99-years lease.

Speaking to a large gathering of businessmen and notables at the annual dinner organised by the Australian and Iraqi business Councils here, Ahmed Ali Al Sayegh, chairman of Aldar Properties, said that the law has been instrumental in multiplying the scope of property development in the emirate.

He said his company has 20-major real estate property development projects which includes residential as well tourist facilities also.

Last month, he said that Dh1.2 billion Al Qurum project was launched which would develop a mangroves forest area in the western Abu Dhabi suburbs into a tourism hotspot.

On the same lines two more projects have been planned which are likely to be announced with in two months time period.



*Sharjah decree on real estate sales*

8 December 2005 



SHARJAH — Shaikh Sultan bin Mohammed bin Sultan Al Qasimi, Sharjah Crown Prince and Deputy Ruler and chairman of Sharjah’s Executive Council , issued yesterday a decree on sale of real estate in the emirate.


The decree sets a number of conditions for obtaining building licences for new commercial buildings on ownership basis, whereby the land where the property is to be constructed is completely owned by the proprietor and that the proprietor shall maintain the right to exploit it as per the conditions and regulations of the appropriate laws.

The decree stated that licences shall be granted to UAE nationals and GCC countries’ citizens only. The decree shall take effect from the date of issue and be published in the official gazzete.


----------



## juiced

Is there a chance non-nakheel/emaar areas like Safa, Umm Suqeim, Jumeirah will be made legal for expats to own leasehold property in?


----------



## dubaiflo

in the long term but not that fast.
even green community is not yet freehold


----------



## dubaiflo

The total value of land transactions in Dubai last week from 5th till 7th of december peaked at Dhs715.28 millions, of which sales exceeded Dhs374 million. The total value of mortgages during the period was Dhs340.86 million, according to the Land Department. 

A total of 25 sale transactions were registered with the Department by the end of the week, the most valuable of which was a plot in Al Rega that was sold for Dhs120 million. The next two most prominent sales saw a second plot in Um Suqaim Second acquired for the sum of Dhs60.648 million and another in Hor Al Anz East for Dhs48 million.

The Jumeira Third area was the most active in terms of the week's sales, with some 3 transactions. Um Suqaim Second followed it with 3 sales.

During the period, Al Rega recorded the highest turnover by value, at Dhs120 million, followed by the Um Suqaim Second area, Dhs70.01 million, and Hor Al Anz East area, Dhs48 million.
�


----------



## Dubai_Steve

London Taxis Advertise Dubai

In a bid to entice tourists from the United Kingdom, the Dubai Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DTCM) has launched a taxi advertising campaign in London, said the Emirates News Agency, WAM Tuesday, quoting a local media report.

"This is the first time that the DTCM is experimenting with this mode of advertising and whether the campaign is extended to other countries will all depend on its success in the United Kingdom," officials at the department said in a report in The Emirates Today.

Dubai is already a desirable destination for travellers from the United Kingdom.

According to the report, around 600,000 guests checked into Dubai hotels in 2004, an outstanding figure which has grown significantly in the first three-quarters of this year already.

The department is still targeting the United Kingdom as it wants to build on Dubai's popularity with that country.

It also wants to exploit the fact that there are 115 scheduled flights from the United Kingdom to Dubai every week and the demand has remained consistent throughout the year.

In addition, the number of hotels in Dubai has grown from 372 in 2004 to 394 this year.

"Dubai has 37,000 hotel rooms to fill so we have to find new markets to draw crowds," officials at the department said.

Officials also feel that this is the best time to launch the campaign as it is the holiday season in the United Kingdom and holidaymakers are looking for safe international destinations.

Apart from the taxi campaign, which showcases different themes, the department has also launched an advertising campaign on major television channels in the United Kingdom.


----------



## BOLSCHOI

Hello,

I would like to buy a small apartment for 550000 AED. Can you give me some information about residence visa in UAE for me and my family?


----------



## dubaiflo

21.12.2005
The GCC construction boom will continue to grow, V. Jayaraman, General Manager, ETA Star Properties claimed at the Fourth GCC Economic Summit. He said: 'The Gulf is experiencing an unprecedented period of economic expansion. We expect the growth to average 6.9 per cent in real terms among the six GCC members in 2005. The GCC real estate sector is booming with considerable inflows coming from the repatriation of funds in to home markets. Governments within the region have also been proactive in diversifying their economies and the region has witnessed a dramatic increase in tourism. The construction spend from entities such as Dubai alone has exceeded $40 billion.'
�
2005 Mena Report


----------



## juiced

BOLSCHOI said:


> Hello,
> 
> I would like to buy a small apartment for 550000 AED. Can you give me some information about residence visa in UAE for me and my family?



You get a residence visa when you buy property, and if you cannot otherwise get one, like through an employer. But you have to renew it every 4 years or something.


----------



## AltinD

^ I think it is 5 years, but I've heard that it is way more expensive then a normal employment visa.

If you get the residency, you can sponsor the residency of your wife and childrens up to 18 years, as per Dubai laws. (extra money to be paid)

However, if you are holding a Russian passport, you have to check first becouse there are restrictions on Russian pass holders. (It remains from the mid 90s when Russians flocked to Dubai and the Russian Mafia became a big problem for the authorities)

However we have a Russian citizen as member here (beiklopa) and he's family semas to have bought a property in marina, so he might know better.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The cost of development land in Dubai has increased by 184% over the last year and a half, with prices still rising, according to a survey by CB Richard Ellis and Construction Weekly magazine. The result could mean tighter margins for developers and contractors. There is also 53% less land available for sale now, compared to January 2004, according to the report.


----------



## DUBAI DRUM

BOLSCHOI said:


> Hello,
> 
> I would like to buy a small apartment for 550000 AED. Can you give me some information about residence visa in UAE for me and my family?



IF YOU BUY A PROPERTY IN ONE OF THE DESIGNATED AREAS YOU WILL BE HANDED A THREE YEAR RENEWABLE RESIDENCE VISA. PLEASE NOTE THIS IS "NOT" A WORK VISA AND IF YOU DECIDE TO GAIN EMPLOYMENT YOU WILL STILL HAVE TO BE SPONSORED.
TO RENEW THE THREE YEAR VISA IS APPROX 2000AED.
P.S. THE VISA WILL COVER YOU AND YOUR FAMILY


----------



## shayan

shak said:


> Hi,
> This question might have been alreasy answered but can't find the answer. How does one make money in the property market. For example if you buy a property for 400000 AED and then sell it 2 years later for 500000 AED (I am guessing). By that time all the other properties in the market would have nearly gone up the same percentage.
> Then the money you receive in relative terms can't buy you a better property.
> Is letting the only way to make money?
> Thanks
> shah


Shak, what i´ve heard of iranians investing in dubai they say that you have to pay 30%before the house is build (maybe like 100.000 dollars) after the house is finished the value of the house is much higher (for dubai+s case most times 100% higher) at that momment they sell the house for like 700.000 dollar (when ints finished) than they pay 70% of the left payment to the developer and they put like about 400.000 dollar in there own pocket and at that momment the european has a house witch would cost like 400.000 dollar less if he bought it when it was still in the build . This is what i call smart buisiness


----------



## shak

Hi,
I was if anyone from the UK had bought a property in Dubai and had to get forms legalised from UAE embassy in London? I have just been told by estate agent that i have to get this done, as nakheel do not accept signature from a solicitor. Is that ture?
thanks
shak


----------



## Salty

shak said:


> Hi,
> I was if anyone from the UK had bought a property in Dubai and had to get forms legalised from UAE embassy in London? I have just been told by estate agent that i have to get this done, as nakheel do not accept signature from a solicitor. Is that ture?
> thanks
> shak


Yeah Shak, we went through this sort of process. 

If you are giving Power of Attorney to a legal representative to do the signing at the Palm office on your behalf, you have to get a Notary Public to complete the relevant papers with you. On some occasions (I'm not quite sure on the exact circumstances) it is necessary for the embassy to check and approve the documentation (I think it depends on the status of the Notary).

Hope this is helpful.


----------



## DUBAI DRUM

shak said:


> Hi,
> I was if anyone from the UK had bought a property in Dubai and had to get forms legalised from UAE embassy in London? I have just been told by estate agent that i have to get this done, as nakheel do not accept signature from a solicitor. Is that ture?
> thanks
> shak


YOU CAN AVOID GOING TO UAE EMBASSY BUT IN DOING SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THE LOCAL COURT IN DUBAI.
I WENT WITH MY SOLICITOR AND SIGNED A POWER OF ATTORNEY SO THAT MY SOLICITOR COULD DEAL WITH ANYTHING IN MY ABSENCE.
HOPE THIS HELPS


----------



## Krazy

can someone please suggest good banks for financing ur property if ur gonna buy from an owner and not straight from the developer? someone told me ADCB is good, im looking for a few more to compare the different financing schemes available for buying property in dubai.


----------



## dubaiflo

did you find sth finally?


----------



## Krazy

well we are looking into the lighthouse but nothing is final, gotta find a good financing scheme first


----------



## dubaiflo

not the lighthouse krazy... really!!! 
foundation took 1,5 years for this building...


----------



## DUBAI DRUM

Krazy said:


> can someone please suggest good banks for financing ur property if ur gonna buy from an owner and not straight from the developer? someone told me ADCB is good, im looking for a few more to compare the different financing schemes available for buying property in dubai.


KRAZY
IF YOU CAN HANG ON A WHILE, MORGAN STANLEY ARE OPENING A MAIN LENDING OFFICE IN DUBAI AND THIS WILL REALLY SHAKE UP THE LOCAL BANKS AND HOPEFULLY GET THEM TO BE MORE COMPETATIVE,BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY MORE EFFICIENT!


----------



## Krazy

tell me more about this dubai drum

flo, man im getting a real good deal on this one that's why my family might go for this one. infact, i'm getting an unbelievable deal.

btw, does anyone know what the "waterfalls" in dubai marina are supposed to be? the apartment that im being told about in lighthouse is supposed to be "facing marina water falls".


----------



## dubaiflo

facing the falling marina waters whatever no idea but i heard this expression already somewhere. i think it is just supposed to mean you have water view.. 

well anyway if it's a real good deal then go for it. if you don't mind pm me with the details, would like to know which apt typ you bought etc.


----------



## juiced

nosy parker


----------



## Krazy

anyone got an opinion on Home Owner Dubai? is anyone from here gonna attend it?


----------



## juiced

My parents attended it when they were in the market for new property, I think its good to attend especially if you still haven't decided what you want to buy but I've never been myself.


----------



## Krazy

thanks juiced, do they announce any new properties for sale during this event? coz my parents are looking to buy something straight from the developer instead of paying premium on resales...


----------



## dubaiflo

AFAIK this would be coincidence, it is not like cityscape, more of a presentation. but i am sure most of the companies there offer properties for sale.


----------



## juiced

According to my parents you could start negotiations there on buying property and some property was put up for sale, then again they were really only looking at villas, not apartments so did not pay any attention to those.
Btw a tip, if your looking for a villa you can buy Saheel and Savannah homes at the Ranches ready to move in direct from Emaar now even though this hasn't been advertised as much, no premiums, they will be at current market price now so Dhs1.9million for a 3300sq feet villa and upwards, but its better than having to finance the premium yourself. Long story as to how this happened but basically Emaar are reselling a number of Ranches houses.


----------



## dubaiflo

nah they are looking for a smaller apt not a 2m DHS ranches villa.
btw juiced did you have a look at la collecion @ mirador?

these are really amazing, funny thing though, there is luxury and super luxury upgrades, i rather wonder what's the standart then  :runaway:


----------



## juiced

dubaiflo said:


> nah they are looking for a smaller apt not a 2m DHS ranches villa.
> btw juiced did you have a look at la collecion @ mirador?
> 
> these are really amazing, funny thing though, there is luxury and super luxury upgrades, i rather wonder what's the standart then  :runaway:


they probably look good on paper, but i'd wait till the finished product before buying mirador. i bet the finishings in typical emaar fashion are:

standard finish: bucket and water well for the toilets
luxury finish: bucket and tap
super luxury: tap and basin :bash: :bash:


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## Krazy

yup definitely not looking for a 2 million dirham villa, more interested in a good 2 bedroom apartment - first preference dubai marina otherwise JLT.


----------



## Imre

Dubai real estate to have a positive outlook 
15-Jan-2006 

The real estate firms of Dubai disagree with the fact that the Dubai real estate would decelerate as reported yesterday. According to them the Dubai real estate market would never come down as the demand for the buildings always exceed its supply. Explaining on the fall in the land during the last few months' dealings they said that it only indicated a slow down and not a deceleration.


According to reports the land deals have dropped drastically during the last few months. And also the absence of a real estate law has badly affected the buyers. In spite of this the property market has been developing as cited by the officials of the real estate firms. 

"We believe that the real estate market in Dubai will stabilize by 2010 when there are more units available for buyers. However as the Dubai government expects demand to increase in proportion to the economic development, there will not be a set back as such. The investment factors in Dubai are very conducive for investors, who are attracted by the favorable property prices and tax-free investment opportunities, especially when compared to other developed markets such as Hong Kong and London. Also with the property law an imminent development in the coming months, we can expect to see more growth as Dubai grants property ownership rights to buyers," Wassim G Merhebi and Rachid A Mikati, the Directors of ACC commented. 

Considering the huge developments already committed in the real estate projects. We are positive on long term outlook for the industry. Like else where in the world the real estate business in Dubai is bound to go through its business cycles. We see the market maturing with strong end user segment emerging this establishes the confidence that the public has on Dubai real estate future, stated Abid A Junaid, Executive Director, ETA Star.


----------



## dubaiflo

this is also what think.

a slow down, slowly, till 2010 or even later.

but i don't think prices will rise dramatically, not more than a small 10% increase maybe.

i'd also say the rental market is more important.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I take it that you mean 10% increase in price per year from now on until 2010?
The last 2 years has seen 15-20% increase per year.


----------



## dubaiflo

most of the projects won't see major price increases,
i'd say prices on launch won't increase by more than 10 % within the next 2-3 years.

supply is there, nevertheless the top of the line projects, for example Burj Dubai or the top projects in the marina might increase by more than 10%.

but don't forget prices in SZR area are already 50% more than average marina prices.

also, prices have NOT increasey by 20% a year in the last two years, if you bought a JBR apt in 2003, then you might be correct, but the launch prices haven't increased that much.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think you will see at least 10% increase in the re-sale value of completed apartments each year. Especially since rents are increasing at much more than that. The purchase price is always related to rental price in an investment market. When rental yield dips then the home owners market comes in and the price is related only to the purchasing power of home owners and amount of supply. In Dubai GDP is very high and increasing. So the only issue is over supply which will not be a problem until at least 2010. But I am not even sure if then there will be an over supply, since Dubai's population if growing extremely fast.


----------



## dubaiflo

yepp i agree with you, but i was indeed talking about new released projects, not completed re-sales!


----------



## Imre

Dubai real estate to experience robust growth in 2006. 
28-Jan-2006 

Dubai real estate is experiencing a tremendous growth and wide expansion because it's supported by factors like the UAE's surging economy, the liberalization of freehold property ownership and the increasing number of foreign companies setting up operations in the country.










Mr. Mohamed Ali Alabbar, Chairman of Emaar Properties and Director General of the Dubai Department of Economic Development (DED) 


Mr. Mohamed Ali Alabbar, Chairman of Emaar Properties and Director General of the Dubai Department of Economic Development (DED) said, "The property market will witness robust growth in 2006." Backed by the nation's surging economy, the liberalization of freehold property ownership and the increasing number of foreign companies setting up operations in the country the real estate would continue to grow, he said in a sessioin at the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum (WEF) currently being held in Davos, Switzerland.

Another important factor that adds to the real estate boom is because of the continued investment in residential property by the younger generation in the nation due to the increase in rents at a very high percentage.

The investor optimism in the region had also resulted in the Middle Eastern stock market indices witnessing sharp average growth of 80 per cent in 2005, he added. 

Mr. Alabbar was speaking at the session entitled "When the Bubble Bursts". Other panelists at the session included Stephen Roach, Chief Economist, Morgan Stanley, Robert Shiller, Professor of Economics at Yale University, and Barry Sternlicht, Chairman and CEO of Starwood Capital Group. The session was moderated by Pamela Woodall, Economics Editor of the Economist.


----------



## kano

What did the others have to say?..... Mr Mohamed would say that being chairman of Emaar!!!!


----------



## Imre

Emaar fills a portion of the void of growing demand of residential units 
29-Jan-2006 

Emaar Properties, the Dubai based real estate developer has completed 3000 residential units and supplied to the buyers in 2005. This has filled only a portion of the void of growing demand of residential units in Dubai. 

Despite the rent hikes the demand for the housing units are increasing. Over the period 2000-2005, the number of residential buildings in Dubai increased by more than 42%, rising from around 56 thousand buildings to 79 thousand during the five years period. On the other hand, residential units rose remarkably by more than 63%, adding more than 92 thousand residential units to reach an expected total in the emirate of 238 thousand by end of 2005. 

According to real estate experts the demand for residential will never come down as there is always a gradual increase in the population and also the Emirate's labor force. Statistics point to a 31% growth in Dubai's population (in terms of numbers, 268 thousand individuals) during 2000-2005, reaching a total population of 1.3 million. Recent data reveals that Dubai's workforce grew by 53.6% during 2000-2004, where more than 318 thousand workers have entered its labour market that reached a workforce of 913 thousand workers. 

The construction and real estate sector contributed significantly to these high growth rates in the emirate's labour force. The number of workers in the construction and real estate sector grew remarkably by an annual average of more than 23% during 2000-2004, adding a total of 140 thousand workers to the sector's workforce. As a result, the construction sector's absorption level reached 26% of Dubai's total labour force in 2004, in comparison to 18% in 2000.


----------



## DarkBlueBoss

i know this is not dubai related, but what do u guys think of investing in RAK, 
i mean i got this offer to land for sale, each piece is around 9500 sq ft, and they are selling around 180,000 dirhams, in an area called Seeh Al Fahlan, 
anyone know the area, do you recommend ? dont recommend ??
comments please


----------



## juiced

RAK people have a thing for shagging camels.. maybe if you used to money to open a Camel City?
But IMHO I wouldnt invest there yet.. I'd wait and see what their plans for the future are. Right now they seem to be pumping money into flashy projects e.g. Hamra Village without actually stopping to look at the infrastructure first like roads, business centres to attract companies and so on.


----------



## dubaiflo

agree, would never invest there. it seems cheap and everything and could eventually turn out to be a great investment but wouldn't take the risk honestly.


----------



## Guest

*My economic analysis of this action*

This sheikh had better hope that this rent cap is not below the equilibrium price/quantity. If the rent cap is below the equilibrium then he will be creating a shortage (quantity demanded greater than quantity supplied). That is not good for anybody! Rent caps have often led to deteriorating conditions for rental properties because owners have no incentive to take care of their property (they cant make money on it!)


----------



## dubaiflo

ehm a 15% (!!!) increase/year should be quite ok, especially if the years before witnessed average increases of 30%++ usually.
i think home owners should be able to take care of the property easily.

if you are familiar with dubai then you should know that there is a constant shortage for 10 years here, that's why we build so much stuff.

---------------------------------------------------------

29.1.2006

The total value of land transactions in Dubai yesterday peaked at Dhs440.26 millions of which sales exceeded Dhs25 million. The total value of mortgages during the period was Dhs415.19 million, according to the Land Department.

A total of 6 sale transactions were registered with the Department by the end of the day, the most valuable of which was a plot in Al Barsha First that was sold for Dhs9.777102 million. The next two most prominent sales saw a second plot in Al Murqabat acquired for the sum of Dhs4.5 million and another in Um Suqaim First for Dhs4.5 million

� 2006 Mena Report (www.menareport.com)


----------



## DarkBlueBoss

ok, get this, 
so, in Nov 05, i purchased shares in Emaar(27.7 dhs/share) & Tabreed (7.2 dhs/share) thinking that by the new year prices would sky rocket ..
unfortunately, that didnt happen and prices have been on the decline since then

so yesterday, i decide to give my broker a call, and ask him to fax me a statement, or what i own and what balance money i have. 

and to my suprise and delight, i find out that the idiot didnt received my order in Nov, and actually didnt buy anything for me, ofcourse i was pissed, but then again, i was so happy, cause, i can buy now at bottom prices, and thats what i did yesterdya, 
so :cheers: to the mistake of the idiot of a broker...


----------



## Mini Me

*Mosque at JLT?*

would there be a Mosque at JLT? If not where is the nearest Mosque to JLT?

Thanks.


----------



## Imre

New property law to accelerate real estate growth. 
1-Feb-2006 

The new property law which will combine the features of both the 99-year renewable lease and freehold rights in limited locations will be soon introduced in Dubai. This will be followed by a decree that will regulate the freehold market for expatriates and limit it to certain projects being developed by a handful of developers.

According to reports the law will be implemented by the second week of February. Once the new law is issued, Dubai Land Department will facilitate the registration of freehold properties in the name of respective owners. Foreign property owners will then have title deeds registered by us in their names. They will then be able to sell these to others on their own and the Land Department will facilitate the transfers and issue new title deeds to the new owners. 

The Land Department will publish booklets on the fee structure on transactions and step-by-step guide on registering properties, inheritance, mortgage and change of ownership of properties for the expatriates once the new law is issued.
Currently, Emaar Properties, Nakheel and Dubai Properties are the only three mandated master developers allowed to offer freehold properties.

More than 13,000 expatriate families have already moved into new freehold homes whose ownership will be formalized through the registration process, to be initiated by the master developers. Of the 13,000 homes, Emaar delivered more than 12,800. 
Currently, homeowner rights are guided by an agreement between the buyers and developers who extend a government guarantee on the ownership of property.

The new law offers a broad guideline to regulate the emirate's real estate market that witnessed explosive growth in 2003-2005 period. It also has provision for collective ownership and community responsibilities, especially linked to the large towers where each apartment owner also owns a part of the land.

Courtesy: Gulf News


----------



## Imre

Published: 02/01/2006 12:00 AM (UAE)



Dubai likely to unveil property law this month 
By Saifur Rahman, Staff Reporter



Dubai: The Dubai government is expected to announce the new property law this month, the final copy of which awaits the Ruler's approval, said a senior government official.

The new law is expected to allow a combination of 99-year renewable lease and freehold rights in limited locations in Dubai.

This will be followed by a decree that will regulate the freehold market for expatriates and limit it to certain projects being developed by a handful of developers.

"The proposed law is in final shape and is awaiting the signature of His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, to become a law," Mohammad Sultan Thani, director development and marketing administration in the Dubai Lands Department, told Gulf News yesterday.

"We expect the new law to be approved anytime following the mourning period that ends in the second week of February.

"Once the new law is issued, Dubai Land Department will facilitate the registration of freehold properties in the name of respective owners.

"Foreign property owners will then have title deeds registered by us in their names. They will then be able to sell these to others on their own and the Land Department will facilitate the transfers and issue new title deeds to the new owners."

He said, the Land Department will publish booklets on the fee structure on transactions and step-by-step guide on registering properties, inheritance, mortgage and change of ownership of properties for the expatriates once the new law is issued.

Currently, Emaar Properties, Nakheel and Dubai Properties are the only three mandated master developers allowed to offer freehold properties.

More than 13,000 expatriate families have already moved into new freehold homes whose ownership will be formalised through the registration process, to be initiated by the master developers. Of the 13,000 homes, Emaar delivered more than 12,800. 

Currently, homeowner rights are guided by an agreement between the buyers and developers who extend a government guarantee on the ownership of property.

The new law offers a broad guideline to regulate the emirate's real estate market that witnessed explosive growth in 2003-2005 period.

"The new law also has provison for collective ownership and community responsibilities, especially linked to the large towers where each apartment owner also owns a part of the land," Thani said.


----------



## dubaiflo

now we will see if they can do it, or if we will witness another delay.
but would be another step in the right direction and secure another boom in Dubai's property market during 2006.


----------



## kano

About time .....This will be good for Dubai...


----------



## malec

Gowealthy are selling this tower now

http://www.gowealthy.com/realestate/uae/dubai/alareifimarina/index.asp


----------



## thedubailife

Room sizes look smaller then average the one beds as an example are only 58 sq mt, But they psychologly they seam cheaper, but there 2 beds are only slightly bigger then a one bed in say for example infinty tower for the exact same price, which is in a better location in the marina.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Does it make sense to invest in a good apartment in Dubai Marina or is it better to invest in DubaiLand seeing as how an investor will want to maximise rental return. Will tourists prefer DubaiLand or staying at JBR or the Marina and then travelling to the nearby DubaiLand for some of their stay?


----------



## juiced

I would say Dubailand for families, but business visitors will probably go for the Marina and JBR, it depends who you're targetting.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Interesting discussions on Dubai can be found here:

http://www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/95530/ShowPost.aspx

and here:

http://www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/106501/ShowPost.aspx


----------



## Alt-Tab

Dubailand is hit by big freeze on new projects

http://www.itp.net/business/news/details.php?id=19465&category=construction

Projects worth billions of dollars have been shelved on the massive Dubailand development.

Over 200 individual projects were originally planned for 
the 300 million m2 development, when it was unveiled in October 2003 — but just 21 have been signed off.

Construction Week has also learned that no more residential-based projects are likely to be given the go-ahead in Dubailand.

It follows an order from the ruler of Dubai, Sheikh 
Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum.
“We’re not accepting any new projects anymore,” said 
Bahaa Abouhaeab, senior business development manager 
of Dubailand.

“Sheikh Mohammed has asked for a slow down of projects across Dubai — there is too much going on all at once. So we’ve been instructed to stop offering new projects for the time being and get started on the construction of the projects we have already agreed.”

Located around 20 km from the centre of the city, Dubailand was initially billed as the biggest leisure-based development on the planet. 

Original designs included 45 main projects and 200 sub-projects, along with 55 hotels and resorts offering up to 50 000 new rooms.

Among the 21 projects to have been given the go-ahead are the $1.5 billion (AED 5.5 billion) theme park, Legends Dubailand, the $1 billion City of Arabia, including the Restless Planet dinosaur park, and the $540 million Dubai Sports City.

Other projects approved include the $136 million Dubai Sunny Mountain Ski Dome and the $231 million Aqua Dunya.

While the project freeze will come as a blow to contractors and consultants who are hoping to win work on the Dubailand development, it will be welcomed by real estate players fearful of an oversupply of residential and retail space hitting the Dubai market.

An official close to the project said that some of the ventures proposed since the development was announced went ‘off the scale’.

“Many were unfeasible and inpractical — the numbers just didn’t work, and they were simply shrouded by the glitz of the idea.”

Another insider said that any projects awarded will have to stick to the original plan of being entertainment or leisure-based.

“The instruction is for no more residential complexes. Dubailand has been told to get on with the core project, and make sure that what has been agreed so far comes together.”

The move could impact on the financial viability of some projects, which aim to use funds secured from apartment and villa sales to fund associated non-residential construction.


----------



## smussuw

For the thousands of foreign property owners in the emirate, the draft Dubai Property Law is set to put to rest much of the uneasiness they have over their ownership rights.

Thousands of expatriates have funnelled money into properties in flagship freehold developments since Dubai allowed freehold ownership in 2002.

While developers assure that Dubai purchasing agreements are contractually sound, industry officials say the market is losing out on a pool of potential overseas buyers who are wary about buying property in absence of a formal property ownership law.

“It is about time to recognise the sale and purchase agreements that were signed between foreigners and developers in Dubai. It’s time to recognise their ownership and to clear the uncertainties,” said Omar Momany, a legal consultant specialising in property law with Habib Al Mulla & Company.

Currently the three mandated master developers of freehold properties – Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Properties – extend a guarantee on the ownership of properties, but these are not considered to be the same as titles or deeds to ownership.

According to the draft law, the Dubai Land Department will be responsible for registering all freehold properties in the names of respective owners, including foreigners, who will receive title deeds to land.

But with all its strengths, the draft law does not delve deeply into details about various property-related issues, like selling rights, observers said.

“It sets out the basic principles. But this law is not enough.This is a platform upon which other laws have to be based,” said Essam Al Tamimi, managing partner of Al Tamimi and Company, pointing to the lack of clauses dealing with community rights and service charges. “There must be something that regulates the community,” he said.

He explained that owners in an apartment building, for instance, would require regulations on how the property will be maintained and how individual owners, in a condominium for instance, would be allowed to alter their premises.

Momany added that the law does not go fully into detail about what would happen if a building is destroyed.

Andrew Chambers, managing director of property company Asteco, said that in the past the market was “speculative”, but now prices have come close to their real value.

As a result, the law would not lead to the same onslaught of sales as when freehold promises were made almost four years ago.

But institutional investments in real estate are also poised to climb. Chambers said he knows of a handful of real estate investment trusts that would diversify their portfolios by investing in Dubai once the law is announced.

“I believe you will get institutions and funds coming in because they will be able to understand the value of the asset,” he said.


----------



## Krazy

Lot of :blahblah: but no substance
We still haven't been told when the law will be passed... they said at the beginning of this month that it would be passed this month :bash:


----------



## Imre

from gowealthy website:

*New property law to benefit the investors * 

28-Feb-2006 



As the new property law would accelerate the growth of Dubai real estate in an unprecedented manner it will also certainly give more confidence for the investors in buying and owning a property in Dubai. This is because the new law ascertains 100% ownership rights for the expatriates. 



The new property law will allow the investors and buyers to own land in designated development zones in New Dubai but not in old Dubai (Sheikh Zayed Road, Jumeirah) 

Secondly, the new property law will be beneficial for the lenders as well as the bank loans or home finance as the interests availed by the banks will be much lesser than before. This is because the banks will have confidence to lend as the banks can be certain of the ownership of the properties. 

This will in turn drive down the cost of mortgages. Presently home payers who are paying about 7.5 % interest on their loans can avail the loans at a very lesser interest. More banks will begin the facility of home finance as there is a guarantee in the ownership of the properties.


----------



## dubaifirst

What would happen to investors who bought in the marina area last year? Do you think the developers would be prepared and co-operative to change the contracts?


----------



## dubaiflo

in fact i think every freehold developer promises in the purchase contract that they will register your apt/property once the law is passed for free.

actually the buyers don't have to take care about that, it is up to the developers afaik.


----------



## maltster

dubaiflo said:


> in fact i think every freehold developer promises in the purchase contract that they will register your apt/property once the law is passed for free.
> 
> actually the buyers don't have to take care about that, it is up to the developers afaik.


Not so for the Marina Diamond buyers. The developer will deal with the paperwork with regards to registration etc, but the buyer has to meet all expenses including the appropriate proportion of the transfer fee.


----------



## dubaiflyer

Wow...this is really funny thread, great entertainment! If this tower is 50% sold, it was certainly not the advertising that did it. Maybe the developer has a very large family that all want to live together....and enjoy gardening!


----------



## Naz UK

Its not even the tower, its the unbelievable marketing of it! If they have used this multi-million dollar marketing agency for the publicity, they should sue them for every last penny, and then use the money they win build a decent tower!


----------



## dubaiflyer

This, taken from the Go Wealthy website, , speaks volumes about the ineptitude of the marketing for this tower. 

"Alareifi Marina invites you to indulge in the sheer pleasures of life, spend a quiet evening on your balcony gazing at the *unfathomable sea and drown in it’s ethereal beauty*, or contemplate as the yachts sail by, or indulge in a long afternoon by the *misty pool *". Drown in the sea? A misty pool? Perfect copywriting! :bash:


----------



## malec

So if you buy in this tower you'll drown in the sea :hahaha:


----------



## Krazy

*Dubai Property Law to bring in a second wave of fresh investments in Dubai*
_6-Mar-2006_

Trident International Holdings is a part of a global conglomerate with presence in major cities world wide. This group is engaged in diversified corporate activities with interests in Horology, Global corporate financing, Telecommunications and Real Estate promotion and development.

Recently Gowealthy caught up with Mr. Wazir Daredia to talk about the latest happenings in Dubai real estate. Here are some excerpts from the interview:









Mr. Wazir Daredia, the CEO of Trident International Holding

*1. Trident has made a name in luxury living. Could you explain how you incorporate this in your real estate projects?*
Our USP is presenting homes that redefine 'luxury living'. All our four projects are located at the exclusive Dubai Marina and are focused on presenting a home, not just to live in but also to enjoy. The luxurious and innovative features at our projects are an outcome of our vision of being an innovative developer of niche propositions.

Trident, for the first time in the UAE, has applied the Science of "Aqua Living" in a residential venture 'Bayside Residence'. Oxygen Bars are a new wave of health and relaxation service sweeping worldwide, we have brought this to our project. Location and luxury are hallmarks of all Trident properties.
*
2. Could you brief about your current Dubai real estate projects?*
The Waterfront, boutique 20-story residential tower, located in the heart of Dubai Marina, Marinascape, located at the edge of the arterial man-made marina within the community, Bayside Residence , the 22 storey waterfront apartments and Trident Grand Residence, a luxurious residential development are our present real estate projects in Dubai.









Trident Grand Residence

*3. How can you explain the present Dubai real estate market?*
Dubai as a city is positioned as one of the fastest growing cities in the world, the expansion in relation to tourism industry, liberal business policies will see quality population move towards this part of the world, who would want living facilities matching their lifestyle. The demand synergy which emerged as a result of city's growth is poised to grow even further in medium to long run. I see tremendous opportunities in this sector. Further, the market is maturing - product differentiation and defining niche would be the call of the future significantly. In relation to the market, the natural market forces will control and define the dynamics. It would lead to the same phenomenon that matured markets (globally) have gone thru. The momentum in relation to investor confidence is further bound to grow because the Dubai government has been promoting large scale projects both in the residential and the industrial sector, thus maintaining the equilibrium of the market. There are clear indications in terms of population growth and demographics, till the time Dubai's strategy of equilibrium is balanced and the trend will continue in the medium to long run.
*
4. Has the Dubai real estate market always been open to the needs of customers who fall into any category? Or only to a particular category?*
- People looking at second homes
- People looking at holiday homes
- People looking at investment propositions
- People looking at retirement homes

*5. Do you have any other real estate projects outside Dubai?*
No, we don't as of now.

*6. Can always Dubai rely on its real estate sector for its economic development?*
It is not true that Dubai is relying on real estate to drive economic development. While the real estate sector plays a significant role, sectors such as tourism, aviation, trade, and commerce among others, play an integral part in the economic development of the Emirate. Dubai has also become a central Middle East hub for trade and finance.

*7. Do you agree that the new property law would accelerate real estate in Dubai?*
Dubai's much awaited property law will tilt the investor confidence for sure. This could possibly result in a second wave of fresh investments, which would be more concrete on a strong foundation. There is still a large chunk of real buyers, "habitat movers", who are interested to make Dubai their real home. "After living in this amazing city", which caters to people of multiple tastes and preferences, who would want to go back home. The disposable income in relation to professional population who is migrating to this part of the world is like never before, it's surely on a surge. People talk about stagnant income level, not true … like all matured markets; it's the performers who are fetching good rewards. Announcement of commercial projects which will require core professional expertise is again a positive indicator; there will be a large segment which will be wide and open - ready to be tapped.

The law will definitely send positive signals, resulting in a strong surge. There would be greater transparency and "no ambiguity" whatsoever. This will "regulate and legalize" all the issues related to title and ownerships.


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ i wonder why they talked to trident ceo.

anyway, i agree with this guy, seems to be a reasonable man.


----------



## Salty

Now that the final draft of the property law has been looked over, any whispers on when it will be signed into law?


----------



## Salty

Salty said:


> Now that the final draft of the property law has been looked over, any whispers on when it will be signed into law?


No answer was the loud reply. I'll take that as a "No" then.


----------



## Tractor

New law has been passed today - take a look on www.gulf-news.com!

Woohuu!


----------



## Naz UK

~Great news! Finally! Now it remains to be seen what effect this has on property prices, both short and long term...


----------



## DUBAI DRUM

This is indeed great news.
You will now see financial institutions like Morgan stanley and Royal bank of scotland lending in this city.
this will have two main effects:_
1. borrowing will be cheaper as lenders will have more security.
2. Prices will go up as there will be a new demand from a whole new demograph i.e clients who's funding needs were not straight forward enough fot the old financial institutions.
I am not a realtor just a very happy investor.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


----------



## III

Am I right in thinking that the marina properties for emaar are not yet confirmed as freehold?


----------



## Gorilla

no freehold, its a 99 year lease similar to UK laws.

However in UK its easy to get new leases when they fall short and the law protects owners as how much freehold owners can charge, lets hope UAE laws have the same safeguard.


----------



## III

Thanks G - Were investors in the marina not under the impression that their properties would be freehold once the law was past? That's the way that Dubai select for the Torch sold it to me


----------



## dubaiflo

gowealthy is selling 1Bdr for 840.000. keep in mind i was talking about launch prices of course.


----------



## Krazy

ur right... those prices are probably a year old... i got my prices from a DP sales agent at property week


----------



## Naz UK

Most agents deliberately keep old prices on their sites to attract buyers. I've had this done to me so many times now, and its a pain in the arse!


----------



## dubaiflo

of course, gowealthy always keeps the old prices, but indicates you have to pay premium.
anyway. the damac prices were like that since launch, so Exe were in fact much cheaper.


----------



## Ashka

Does anyone know what an agent's Goffer (or the Tout, one for a better description) get as a kickback? 
My contact got a bit uptight when I mentioned another agent had approached me. They insisted that I was their client. (I guess forever  !!!).


----------



## Krazy

Best thing to do is don't tell your agent that your dealing with others.... or just stick to one... and if you do that make sure it's someone professional like better homes, gowealthy or asteco. Dont waste your time with crappy small unprofessional agents


----------



## arfie

Dubai Luxury Homes are very professional also.


----------



## xrayman

whatever happens dont buy from dubaipropertylink.they fooled me into buying in t
he international city and then later their service was so poor i am repenting buying in dubai


----------



## Naz UK

OMG...holy shit...same damn thing happened to me! ALMOST! I had to resell within a few days of giving them my deposit, and luckily I found a buyer, otherwise i'd have been buggered! Dubaipropertylink suck arse!


----------



## xrayman

naz UK you were lucky.The only reasaon i stuck to it later as they have emirates advocates as the lawyer and all the money was being paid to them.
finally the papers have been submitted to Nakheel and registration is in progress.I bought it in nov2004.


----------



## Naz UK

I purchased my around Sept 04....it was cheap as chips..but the whole experience was horrible! Put me off for a whole year or so..before i decided to take the plunge again..this time with a reputable well researched developer!


----------



## xrayman

whom did u buy it from


----------



## avion1

I was also mis-sold a shit property by *propertysupermarket* in International City, with the promise that I would get guranteed mortgage and price will go-up blah blah. I am stuck with that property now. The Propertysupermarket was not helpful at all. Then I bought another property from www.click4dubaiproperty.com  A small but very helpfull company. very good advice.


----------



## onetickin_onetickout

xrayman said:


> whatever happens dont buy from dubaipropertylink.they fooled me into buying in t
> he international city and then later their service was so poor i am repenting buying in dubai


What was wrong with dubaipropertylink? I met them, and seem to be OK, but I didn't end up purchasing from them.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Do you think anyone will want to rent an apartment other than JBR in the Marina for a holiday? Why would you rent in Infinity or the Torch for example instead of staying at JBR, where you have 400 shops and the beach right next to you?


----------



## onetickin_onetickout

Totally agree with you Dubai Steve. Firstly, whenever I've been on holdiay, hotels are the only places I've ever stayed at. Second, if I were to rent an apartment, it would be JBR for the simple appeal of a beach.


----------



## kano

You are correct dubai steve ...especially Europeans who always love the beach....however having said that towers like the Torch and Infinity will still be popular with holiday makers. The Marina is a probably the best time to be during the evenings and nights where there will be a lot of entertainment and there is no stopping people visiting jbr . Further the agents will always say its close to the beach even if it 15 minutes away.


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ JBR will be short term rental, expensive of course, while the rest will be long term, or the towers like marina diamond cheap short term.


----------



## Naz UK

I can't comment on JBR rental rates just yet, for obvious reasons, but I've said it before: The reason why some ppl will choose an apartment (immediate beach access or not) over a hotel, is that the equivalent room/luxury in a hotel will cost you up to 3 times as much.

Ave. current price for a 1-bed apartment in the Marina - £650-750 for 7 nights.
Ave. current price for a beach hotel room - £2000 per 7 nights (approx.).

Secondly, if like me (and a million others) you have kids, 1 room will simply not be enough, you will either need a triple....or a suite....and that will set you back in the region of £3150 for 7 nights (or more).

For some ppl, thats just simple mathematics.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I agree Naz but I imagine JBR rates will be the the same as you quote above in which case families will choose JBR over Marina apartments? So in the long run it may be that the marina apartments will have to be priced cheaper than JBR for rentals.

I only want to rent my apartment on holiday rental not long term so I am getting worried that this is not possible unless done at a price compared to marina diamond in order to compete.


----------



## Naz UK

Well Steve, there is a clear difference between the supertalls, and developments like Marina Diamonds, thats the first point. People will always expect to pay a bit more to for an apartment in say the Torch, than any Marina Diamond. If some ppl try and compete, then thats a different issue. It's gona be a tough market, there's no doubt about it. And if as you say, JBR will be priced similar to the hotels, then lets face it, thats an arugment to choose a hotel over JBR, in my opinion. We all would rather be waited on and pampared at a hotel, rather than DIY it in an apartment, if the price difference was minimal. Once again, this strengthens the positive aspect holiday let apartments, because they will be at least half the cost of the equivalent JBR/Hotel prices.


----------



## Tractor

Don't forget there will probably be high demand for accomodation during big events, not just high season where most will want a beach/pool.

Personally I'd not want to rent in JBR as the beach is likely to be seriously crowded and I doubt it'll be as well looked after as one owned by a hotel.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Sorry meant to say that JBR will be in the same price range as current apartment rentals - £650-750 for 7 nights. In which case people will choose JBR over hotels. Especially since I believe they will be marketed by expedia. So all other super talls in the marina will have to rent out at less than this it seems.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

In some ways the marina diamond has advantages over the torch. There are less apartments so the pool will be less crowded.


----------



## kano

I think that jbr is going to be for holiday lets and other marina towers will be for long term. I have a special apartment in a tower right next to Le Royal Maridean and access in and out is very quick....i have been told that the further in the towers it takes longer to get out especially in the mornings and more difficult to let to executives etc for long term............but NAZ the rental i would expect for my 2 bed would be far cheapear than the hotels .


----------



## Ashka

I am really nervous about the housing boom in Dubai. Especially in the DM area.

Speculators have pushed up prices to extraordinary levels and £300-£400 psf is similar to London prices. 

Am I correct in stating that, over the next few years, a projected 150,000 apartments will be built in and around this area.

For those planning to suppliment by letting will have a smaller and smaller cake to share.

There is an arguement for this area eventually going the same way as Costa Del Sol.

I am really nervous!! :runaway:


----------



## Naz UK

Ashka said:


> over the next few years, a projected 150,000 apartments will be built in and around this area.


Well, if Dubai's official estimation is to be believed, there will also be in the next few years, a combined increase in visitors/expatriates to the tune of 2-3 million people.

As long as the current rate of growth in tourism and long term stay expats. continues we have nothing to worry about. Officially, the government is quoting that the demand for rental accommodation far exceeds current supply.

Do we all trust the Dubai government?


----------



## malec

I presume most of that demand is for cheap housing


----------



## Tractor

Don't be so sure, Dubai is a tax haven like Monaco or Gibraltar ...


----------



## DUBAI DRUM

*JBR RENTALS*

Hi Everyone
I do not post often as you can see, but I do follow the SSC site quite often.
If this helps, but I have bought eight(8) apartments in JBR and am currently looking for a good management company to sort out rentals and the figure I will be renting out for will be approx £700.00 per week.
The apartments are all one bedroom with full marina view .
The reason I decided on JBR is primarily the Beach access . I have recently inspected the beach club next to Oasis Beach Hotel and can confirm that it is fantastic which includes a large pool with a swim up bar. It will in effect be just like staying in any five star hotel.
Dubai steve and Naz I agree that Beach access is essential when supplying a holiday let.


----------



## kano

Dubai Drum ...how did you come to the figure of £ 700 per week ...have you made enquires?


----------



## Naz UK

I reckon you could get a lot more than that, once its all complete. Especially that its got beach access thrown in.


----------



## maltster

DUBAI DRUM said:


> Hi Everyone
> I do not post often as you can see, but I do follow the SSC site quite often.
> If this helps, but I have bought eight(8) apartments in JBR and am currently looking for a good management company to sort out rentals and the figure I will be renting out for will be approx £700.00 per week.
> The apartments are all one bedroom with full marina view .
> The reason I decided on JBR is primarily the Beach access . I have recently inspected the beach club next to Oasis Beach Hotel and can confirm that it is fantastic which includes a large pool with a swim up bar. It will in effect be just like staying in any five star hotel.
> Dubai steve and Naz I agree that Beach access is essential when supplying a holiday let.


Dubai Drum, let us know if you find a good Management company. I need to find one for my shoreline apartments but dont get the opportunity/time to come over to Dubai as often as I would like. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## dubaiflo

Naz UK said:


> Officially, the government is quoting that the demand for rental accommodation far exceeds current supply.
> 
> Do we all trust the Dubai government?


just have a look at what prices people are willing to pay to rent an apt or villa...


----------



## DUBAI DRUM

kano said:


> Dubai Drum ...how did you come to the figure of £ 700 per week ...have you made enquires?



Hi Kano
This is the figure that would make it financially viable for me to rent them out.
I bought these apartments in 2004 November. so do not need to risk trying to rent them out for a larger amount.
I will of course remain flexible and if the market dictates that a much higher figure is achievable without compromising the amount of weeks i rent out then I shall of course amend the rates. 
I also have bought an apartment in Palm Springs (Palm Jebel Ali) but that will just be for my/friends use as I see that palm as being more exciting than Palm Jumeirah.


----------



## DUBAI DRUM

maltster said:


> Dubai Drum, let us know if you find a good Management company. I need to find one for my shoreline apartments but dont get the opportunity/time to come over to Dubai as often as I would like. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.


Hi Maltser
Will do I am going to Dubai on June 04th so will let you know.
cheers


----------



## kano

Hi Dubai Drum Jebel ali should be good when it is completed......but i expect the palm to look great when it is completed. 

The rate of £ 700 seems reasonable as hotel rooms cost £ 200 plus per night and with all the resturants and shops at jbr people won't have to spend far too much on food and drinks....like you end up paying in hotels.


----------



## kano

Dubai Drum having bought quite a few apartments at jbr have they told you when they are liekly to hand over


----------



## DUBAI DRUM

kano said:


> Dubai Drum having bought quite a few apartments at jbr have they told you when they are liekly to hand over


Hi
I recieved 8 letters about 6 weeks ago stating it will be the second half of this year they were not any clearer than that i'm afraid.
They stated they would give approx 1 months notice of completion.
It seems they treat me like everyone else who gets delays on other projects, but to be fair i am in no immediate rush anyway.


----------



## kano

yeah i got the same letter...it looks more like sept the way they are going at present


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Good choice. In the long term prices will shoot up even further. Although probably you have already made a bundle! And so nice to have your own holiday home. My only concern for you at the moment is if you can also use it yourself. Can you rent it OK on the holiday market since the marina is still so much under construction. Renting long term should be no problem there is a serious lack of available apartments.

Regarding global prices, take a look at London - ontario tower for example - off plan price for a 2 bed which is only 963 sq ft (just a little bigger than your 1 bed) start at around £600,000 !


----------



## Dubai Freak

*Investors be aware!*



kpage said:


> I hope Ive made the right choice for my family, I ve brought the larger of the 0ne bed apartments at the Marina Heights Tower for a holiday home and for some rental income in between times. I would appericate your views on this as an investment. thanks.


Without putting a downer on this lively thread I also bought a large one bed apartment at the Marina in June 2004, with similar ideas to a lot of investors. Looking forward to a nice holiday home & some rental income to help out, the future looked bright    

Unfortunately I bought in The Lighthouse & as most people are aware the developer Emad Ayoub fled Dubai in mid March 2006 leaving TLH investors with nothing (& all the Ayoubco workers). It is true Dubai does some wonderful things but at the moment Dubai's 'system' does absolutely nothing to protect their investors. Although lawyers are still representing TLH investors, the light is definitely not shining at The Lighthouse >( >( >( 

* . . . Investors in Dubai be aware Dubai does not do problems!*


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ i feel really sorry for you.

and i still think the top officials are not aware of this problem, otherwise more would happen.

write 7Days.

btw since we are in the investment thread i can recommend u a good investment, it is Silicon Boulevard in Dubai Silicon Oasis.

if u want more information, just PM me


----------



## Dubai_Steve

So the new property law in Dubai is taking positive affect at last!


*Barclays launches Dubai mortgages*

_Barclays Bank today announced the launch of mortgages in Dubai that have been specifically designed to meet the requirements of buyers in the Emirate's booming property market._

The new mortgage range will be available in four different currencies (UAE dirhams, pounds sterling, Euro and US dollars) and *will be approved within 24 hours*. Barclays will be the first mortgage provider in Dubai to offer customers an extensive number of currency options and quick mortgage approval. 

David Roberts, board member of Barclays PLC and chief executive of the bank's International Retail and Commercial Banking operations, said; 'Barclays has clearly stated its international ambitions and Dubai is an attractive, fast growing market in which Barclays wishes to grow. Today's launch of new mortgage products in Dubai is a tangible example of how we are using our proven global expertise and competitive advantage to develop innovative product propositions that benefit our existing and new clients.' 

In February 2006, Barclays announced its intention to increase the proportion of profits it generates from outside the UK to 50 per cent within three years, from 40 per cent in 2005. The new mortgages will be offered by the banks international retail arm, International Retail and Commercial Banking, which is focused on growing Barclays presence in attractive markets, including Dubai. International Retail and Commercial banking operates in 21 countries with over 10 million customers and 46,000 employees 

Barclays is offering the following mortgage products to UAE residents and non residents: 


• Owner-occupiers wishing to buy a completed home ready to move in 


• Off Plan Buyers looking at homes that are planned or under construction 


• Buy-to-Let mortgages for prospective landlords 

Philip Ward, Barclays' Head of Mortgages in Dubai says, 


'Dubai is maturing into a home-owning environment, and Barclays expects to shake up the market with its strong product range and customer-focused service levels. By bringing our experience, multi currency and service driven approach that has been developed over many years, we are confident that our mortgages will be very attractive to Dubai home buyers, whether home owners or investors.' 



Barclays is one of the world's leading banks and Barclays has the largest presence of any UK bank in the European non resident mortgage market, serving mortgage customers through its operations in Spain, France, Portugal and Italy. Barclays is also one of the UK leading mortgage providers with a mortgage book of GBP 59.6 billion (AED 387.4 billion) and the leading mortgage provider in South Africa following its acquisition of a majority state in Absa. Building on this experience, today's announcement further strengthens Barclays international mortgage credentials, with the addition of Dubai in its portfolio. 

Barclays mortgages in Dubai will be available from a minimum of AED 500,000 up to a maximum of AED 7.5 million, in areas where all nationalities are allowed to own residential property. 

All mortgages will be available in four different currencies - UAE dirhams, pounds sterling, Euro and US dollars. For sterling, dollar and euro loans, customers are expected to have an income source in the same currency. Thereafter, the principle will be sanctioned and drawn down in AED and then converted to the foreign currency. 

In another benefit, a team of expert mobile Barclays mortgage advisors will meet customers to discuss the best mortgage for their requirements. The Advisors will travel around Dubai in Barclays-branded Minis. Loan approvals will be made within 24 hours, at competitive interest rates (all rates indicated below are variable rates). 

Mr Wards adds; *'With the recently announced changes in the property law ownership in Dubai, specifically with regards to non resident ownership, and the ongoing highly positive economic climate in Dubai, we believe that now is exactly the right time to bring our breadth of international mortgage experience to this market'*. 'We have examined the marketplace in great detail, and we believe that our products will hit the right note with prospective buyers.'


----------



## Salty

Steve - this is brill. Come the new year we'll be swapping our UK sterling mortgage for a sterling mortgage on our apartment on the Palm and then offsetting the mortgage interest against our tax bill when we receive rental income.

The whole set up really is maturing.


----------



## Admiror

Can the poeple who have already bought and are paying installments apply for a Barclay mortgagae.Also its not clear whether UK residents will be eligible to apply for these and from when ? Any ideas Steve, Salty ?


----------



## Salty

Admiror said:


> Can the poeple who have already bought and are paying installments apply for a Barclay mortgagae.Also its not clear whether UK residents will be eligible to apply for these and from when ? Any ideas Steve, Salty ?


I think you will be able to transfer an existing mortgage if you think you will get a better deal with Barclays (beware of early redemption penalty clauses though). In fact, this is just what we want people to do as competition of this nature should drive down the still rather high interest rates that the banks are charging for Dubai mortgages.

I know that someone living in the UK was eligible to apply for an HSBC mortgage with the Dubai Branch of that bank in 2004 because I looked into it at the time. Don't see why Barclays should be any different.

The best situation IMO would be if a major bank was willing to provide a sterling mortgage in the UK using Dubai property as the security for the loan. We wouldn't get ripped off so badly over currency exchanges then.

Best thing to do is have a chat with Barclays. Be interested to hear what they tell you if you do.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Interesting that they offer "Buy-to-Let mortgages", will need to investigate this. In the UK BTL mortgages are usually offered at 85% loan to value and there is no need to prove income / outgoings etc. so long as estimated rent covers 125% of the mortgage payments.

However, not sure if those who have already paid 30% deposits could make use of this?


----------



## Naz UK

Steve BTL interest rates are higher too.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

How will Al Bawadi's 30 or more hotels affect rentals in Dubai Marina? Do you think it will be possible to rent on short term lets to tourists in buildings like the Torch, Infinity, Marina Heights etc.


----------



## Naz UK

God knows..only time will tell...

Just an interesting thought..what would happen if the boot had been on the other foot so to speak..and some international developer say in Hong Kong..or America announced a replica Dubai...with its own full-sized Burj Dubai? How pissed off would the Dubai government be upon hearing that!


----------



## scoobydoobyBUY

*Dubai contract*

Does anyone know how to protect your investment if the contract between developer and buyer for an off-plan apartment due in 2008 is in English?
If there is a dispute with the developer concerning false advertising what laws are useful?


----------



## kano

it should say in the contract which country's laws apply


----------



## scoobydoobyBUY

Yes, but are there any laws in Dubai in relation to e.g. "unfair contracts"? do the contracts have to be translated into in arabic to be used in Dubai? should an apartment sale contract contain a plan of the apartment, or just a floor plan? or are there no guidelines at all as to how off-plan property contracts are drafted in the UAE? Is there any law against knowingly falsely advertising (in writing) a property, e.g. saying an apartment has desirable premium features when in fact it does not?
Are there any laws to protect investors against e.g. a U.K. marketing company issuing UAE contracts on behalf of it's sister company in the UAE but using false advertising tactics to secure a sale?
Is this a good forum for such questions?


----------



## kano

Not a good forum for thse questions......i think you should contact a lawyer in dubai really if the contact says dubai law applies...


----------



## Dubai Freak

scoobydoobyBUY said:


> Does anyone know how to protect your investment if the contract between developer and buyer for an off-plan apartment due in 2008 is in English?
> If there is a dispute with the developer concerning false advertising what laws are useful?


My contract for 'The Lighthouse' although written in 'Legal' English was not worth the paper it was printed on. Emad Ayoub the developer was in breach of contract constantly & when we (the investors) tried taking him to task he always quoted his side of the contract & the penalties imposed if 'we' breached. When the going got tough he fled Dubai with the investors money, that says it all.

I have read similar story's on this forum about poor contracts, changing specifications & major redesign without consideration for the investors, fortunately nobody has suffered the same ending as The Lighthouse ( . . yet?)

. . . I am not trying to put anybody off investing in Dubai, I am just trying to communicate a warning, due to what happened at The Lighthouse & the lack of protection from 'the systems' within Dubai.


----------



## Admiror

Thanks Salty and others for the info.

On the issue of unfair contratcs i notice that the marina diamond contracts say that if you miss one installment , the contract will cease to exist and the developer will forfeit all the previous money paid. This is clearly an unfair clause and i wonder how would the courts in Duabi would rule if such a dispute occured. I know that many poeple have not kept up to date with their payments and therfore risk losing the money they have paid so far.


----------



## DJRage

Hi 
Anyone taking advantage of the good GBPAED rate at the moment - worth while taking the rate if you have installments to pay this year (i.e. a fwd contract) - currently 6.7-6.8 - which I hear is highest in last 12 months.


----------



## Mr Moose

DJRage said:


> Hi
> Anyone taking advantage of the good GBPAED rate at the moment - worth while taking the rate if you have installments to pay this year (i.e. a fwd contract) - currently 6.7-6.8 - which I hear is highest in last 12 months.


Yep
I did just that on Friday evening (5th May) for the rest of my installments and got a rate of 6.75. At least I've managed to make up some of the 'loss' on my other payments due to the poor rates since Xmas.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai demographics strong, but supply growing*

_Recent figures from the Dubai immigration authorities point to strong demand for housing in Dubai. But the first signs of significant price discounting are starting to emerge in the Dubai Marina. Whether this is a new trend is probably too early to say but it is being closely watched by analysts._

In March a total of 56,000 new residency visas were issued for Dubai, and many of these visas will have been for the head of a household. Not all of these people will be potential buyers or occupiers of upmarket property in Dubai, indeed 15-17% are said to be in this category in an average month. 

This figure translates into a demand for 85,000 property units in 2006, almost exactly the estimate of supply of new property suggested by the estate agency Asteco. In short, new immigrants are supporting the expansion of the Dubai real estate market at its current fevered pace. 

That supply and demand are in such a balance should not really come as a shock. It explains why rents are still rising and why it is so hard to find an apartment when you actually try. 


Achilles heel
On the other hand, this is also an Achilles heel for the market. Any interruption to that flow of new residents and the backlog of construction projects would quickly result in a huge oversupply. 

This does not appear to be on the cards at present, although the near 60% fall in the Dubai Financial Market is a reminder that the emirate is not immune from investment cycles. Besides with so many foreign buyers there does not need to be a problem in Dubai, some kind of financial chaos overseas would have a contagion effect. 

The property market, on the other hand, still seems to be strengthening with strong rental rates, new sales and the launching of yet more projects. And the real test will be after the summer, and whether sales rebound after the inevitable summer lull. 

In the meantime, the full-page advertisement in the Gulf News this week for the Horizon Tower, and unusual circular tower in the Dubai Marina, is offering four-bedroom apartments from $440,000, which is below the current market rate. 


Market risk
Interestingly local Islamic mortgage provider Tamweel is offering 70% finance on this tower, while it is providing 90% finance on villas at present. Perhaps this reflects a difference in the perception of the risk involved in apartments and villas in Dubai. 

Most commentators visiting the Dubai Marina point upward to the 40-plus towers of the Jumeirah Beach Residence when asked to hazard an opinion on the direction of the market this autumn, or in early 2007, when the JBR is delivered. 

It will indeed be a test of the strength of the Dubai property market to see whether the thousands of new JBR apartments can be absorbed. Given the current level of new residency visas being issued in Dubai some skeptics may be surprised by the outcome, provided that nothing happens in international markets to spook the foreign investors on which Dubai increasingly depends.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai Dreams for Aussies*

With capital appreciation at 18% and rental yields running at 15%, the United Arab Emirates state of Dubai is becoming one of the World’s investment hotspots. But how easy is it for Australians to invest?

Dubai has embarked upon some of the most daring construction developments in modern times. Dubailand is bigger than Disney Land, with six themed worlds and over 200 individual entertainment projects, while Hydropolis will be the World’s first underwater hotel.

These mega structures are bringing jobs to the region and attracting tourists (the number of visitors is estimated to increase from 5 million to 15 million by 2012) which, when combined with the influx of enterprises moving into the region, has resulted in a massive boom in residential property build and a situation where demand outweighs supply. As a result rental yields and property prices are soaring.

Why Invest?

Capital appreciation was around 18% in 2004 and, as an estimate on your return if you were to sell, many of the off-plan purchases have literally doubled in price between commencement and completion. Unlike the Australian market, Dubai rental returns have been running constant at around 15%. This is exemplified by the Government’s recent intervention to cap rental increases at 15% to the end of 2006 in an effort to slow the speed of inflation created by the short property supply.

In addition to the promise of high returns, Dubai offers investors a tax free environment. It is not a tax haven, but simply a country with no tax or tax department. The price of property is also more affordable than Hong Kong and Singapore, which have to date attracted Australian investment due to their tax status.

To buy a 100m² unit on the waterfront of the prestigious Dubai Marina will cost approximately $260,000, whereas a similar property in Singapore would set you back around $1,000,000. This relatively low property price makes the entry accommodation affordable, and without the taxation of 48c in the dollar you can see why interest in Dubai’s property market is rapidly gathering pace. 

Location, Location, Location

With so much development on-going in Dubai where should you buy? Currently the most sought after locations include Dubai’s Marina and the Palm Islands, a palm-shaped development of 3 islands where numerous celebrities are believed to have purchased property. While the cost of a villa on the palm can be as high as $6 million luxury apartments in flagship developments like The Torch on Dubai’s Marina can be purchased for $302,000, with investors having access to the same facilities you would expect in a five star hotel.

What’s the Catch?

To date it has not been possible for a foreign national to own the freehold on a property in Dubai. This situation is now changing however as a statement in March announced the finalisation of the land registry legislation. With this hurdle removed, the only real obstacle to investing in Dubai is that you will need to have cash ready to invest. In Australia, mortgages for overseas property are not readily available and Dubai’s developers require payment by completion to fund the construction of their development. Therefore property is typically purchased and paid for over the term of the build. Your upfront costs will be around 20-30% of the purchase price, with monthly instalments throughout the term and a final payment upon completion. It is worth looking around for different finance options however as some developers have created their own schemes which are more flexible, for example, Dubai Select, a developer who has recently launched in Australia, offer a payment plan which lets investors pay in quarterly instalments.

Whilst few banks are offering finance on property in Dubai at this time, it is likely to change now that the land registry legislation is now being finalised. On the positive, the apparent lack of finance options is helping to keep prices low. The message seems quite clear - the best returns are going to be to those who get in early. Once mortgages are available and the ability to purchase property becomes more accessible, it is anticipated that prices will escalate.

Why Invest: In a Nutshell

All master-planning is Government controlled so the demand to supply ratio is managed, thus maintaining strong growth & returns
No capital gains or income tax. 
The range of properties on offer is vast. 
The quality of build is high. 
Legal fees aren’t compulsory, but recommended. 
The buying process is simple. 
Flexible payment plans allow payments to be deferred following an initial reservation deposit. 
80% of property available is still off-plan which means investors can purchase on attractive interest free instalments. 
Prices are attractive and very affordable by other countries standards. 
Capital Appreciation has risen between 15 - 25% annually. 
High rental yields on completed properties. 
Three year resident visas are available with non-UAE.


----------



## Naz UK

^^ Posted on the Australia subforum!


----------



## Morrismarina

Just thought I'd let everybody know I'm as sick as a parrot.........what's going on with the Dirham exchange rate. It's up to 6.9 to the UK £ now. Good news for investors but not me. I was a bit concerned at the rate being around 6.3 about six weeks ago and was told by my currency broker that this was due to US domestic interest rates being higher than the UK and set to go even higher this year. So......exactly a month ago at 6.46 I sought their advice and they told me it was a "good window" a "good buying opportunity" so I fixed all my future instalments (I've got 70% of the off plan price still to pay) at this great 6.46 rate. Bloody hell .....it was crap...it's cost me an arm and a leg. (They're telling me now the fall in the dollar is due to the high oil price and the interest rates between US & UK are not a factor now). Now I know they haven't got a crystal ball ..... but I could have saved myself £8,000 in the space of just a month. Oh shit !! Me and Nick Leeson have a lot in common !!!


----------



## Naz UK

I just paid my 2nd installment today and got a rate of 6.83.


----------



## Mr Moose

I'm looking for advice on how to set up a local bank account in Dubai (to collect rental income & pay the bills etc. in AED) but while still living in the UK.

i.e. Can I only do this (locally) once I have my residence visa or can I set up remotely as a foreign national? 

Could someone please point me to the right forum or am I OK asking here?


----------



## Morrismarina

Yes you got a really good rate Naz, wish I'd just run with the rates instead of fixing. An expensive lesson in currency dealing. I would say why don't you fix at 6.8/6.9 ...I don't think the rates ever been much higher, but you'd better not take any advice from me.


----------



## Naz UK

lol. Well actually, the rate touched 7.2 in Jan 2005. But the point is, don't be dispondent, its not really that big a deal really. The biggest financial issue in buy an apartment for investment is a)value appreciation and b) rental income/appreciation. So all is not lost by any means. Just think, you've easily made more than £8000 on your apartment since your purchase!! After all, your's got bigger and better remember! You jammy bastard! Arggghhh ! Stop complaining! :lol:


----------



## Morrismarina

Cheers Naz........you've cheered me up. I suppose I'm just annoyed with myself, feel a bit of a fool really, but yes I've been lucky in the other areas you mention so need to count my blessings ....and yes it's a long term investment. So...I'll stop being a whinger. But pleased for you on the rate mate.


----------



## Naz UK

^^ Great. Send the next patient in. "Ah, Mr Askha, how are you? take a seat..." :jk:


----------



## Morrismarina

I love it...nice one Naz.


----------



## Salty

Mr Moose said:


> I'm looking for advice on how to set up a local bank account in Dubai (to collect rental income & pay the bills etc. in AED) but while still living in the UK.
> 
> i.e. Can I only do this (locally) once I have my residence visa or can I set up remotely as a foreign national?
> 
> Could someone please point me to the right forum or am I OK asking here?


Moose,

Please see the PM I've sent you (got to keep Florian sweet).

Salty


----------



## dubaiflo

DELETE DELETE move it whatever.
but not here :bash:


----------



## dubaifirst

*Forward contract*

Has anyone bought a forward contract tof fix the dirham, the rate of £ to UAD
was 6.9 on Friday, do you think it is a good time to fix the Dirham at this rate for the next two years if you have regular payments to make or do we think th US dollar might even deteriorate further?


----------



## FWIW

*Steer clear of Dubai?*

Just read this article on the MSN website:
http://money.uk.msn.com/Mortgages/I.../Buy_To_Let/article.aspx?cp-documentid=481358

I found tip#2 to be utter bollocks as Barclays now offers buy-to-let as stated here: http://www.citywire.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?VersionID=81590

Ajay’s tips for the budding buy-to-let investor
Along the way, Ajay has also picked up a few tips for anybody looking to enter the buy-to-let market.
1 Don’t buy brand new flats off-plan
“People buy them and when you ask them what the yield is, they talk about the potential growth in value. This is the wrong way to look at it.”
*2 Steer clear of Dubai*
“People talk about Dubai as if it is the next big thing. But you won’t find lenders willing to offer a buy-to-let mortgage on properties out there.”
3 Do not furnish your flat
“The minute you start doing that, you get tenants calling up, complaining that their pillow case is ripped. Far better to allow them to impose their on character on the property.”
4 Avoid students
“They are young, away from home for the first time and they have no commitment to your property. You are getting not one set of tenants in a property but three or four separate ones. That said, if the rental yield is high - like 25% - disregard this rule. And the previous one, as student properties need to be furnished.”
5 Working tenants are not always best 
“Most people survive from paycheck to paycheck. If they lose their job, it becomes much harder for them to pay the rent. But if you take a DSS tenant, the rent is stable and their circumstances rarely change.”


----------



## malec

SunnyS said:


> 4 Avoid students
> “They are young, away from home for the first time and they have no commitment to your property. You are getting not one set of tenants in a property but three or four separate ones. That said, if the rental yield is high - like 25% - disregard this rule. And the previous one, as student properties need to be furnished.”


Not to mention that your property will most likely be completely wrecked!!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I have emailed Ajay about the Barclays BTL mortgages  he needs some educating.


----------



## FWIW

Dubai_Steve said:


> I have emailed Ajay about the Barclays BTL mortgages  he needs some educating.


Nice one Steve!

Although Dubai does not need his help; helping him change his mind and accepting that progress has been made will be a positive step. Especially with dispelling the wide spread belief that Dubai is a white elephant!

If i had a penny for everytime someone said that to me! :bash: 

I look forward to any response you get!


----------



## Morrismarina

I'm really surprised the US Dollar has fallen so much in value, doesn't seem much reason for it to me. I'st one hell of a sharp spike as it looked to have settled comfortably within the 6.3 to 6.4 ($ to £) band over the last 6 months. I would guess that the dollar will pick up sharply the next few weeks but not so quickly as it fell back. Three years ago the rate to the UK £ was only 5.4 so it's a terrific rate at the moment. I'd be inclined to sit back and see how far it will go, when you see it falling, say three days in a row then go for it. .....might reach 7.2 perhaps. Unlikely to go much higher than this as over two dollars to the pound is pretty much unheard of......at 7.2 I'd definitley take it.......But hey what do I know......I fixed at 6.4 so don't take my advice whatever you do. (Saying that 6.4 is still historically a fairly good rate).


----------



## Ashka

dubaifirst said:


> Has anyone bought a forward contract tof fix the dirham, the rate of £ to UAD
> was 6.9 on Friday, do you think it is a good time to fix the Dirham at this rate for the next two years if you have regular payments to make or do we think th US dollar might even deteriorate further?


If it helps I fixed my August installment on Friday (6.9). I guess you know that you pay 10% to FX dealer now and balance closer to due date.
:cheers:


----------



## limey

Salty said:


> Moose,
> 
> Please see the PM I've sent you (got to keep Florian sweet).
> 
> Salty


Salty/Moose, I have the same question re: bank accounts? Can someone please advise (or PM?)

Thanks!


----------



## new/wirral

Hello There,any comments about the point at dubai marina by dubaiselect!! bought one bed marina facing,fingers crossed.new to this chat,hope rent covers costs when built.any other good projects about,cheaper.Ta for any help.....


----------



## Morrismarina

Welcome to the forum NewWirral...........The Point is a good choice, will have incredible views and I have found DS a very good company to deal with ........I'm sure you'll be pleased with them as your build progresses. There is a dedicated thread for The Point (you'll find it in the Dubai Marina index) but please do not post investment issues there, keep them to this investment thread otherwise folks get very upset.
Are you thinking about renting out long term or short term holiday lets ??


----------



## scoobydoobyBUY

*Dubai Select or not!*

Hi Dubaiwirral
I'm sure your choice in Dubai Select was well intentioned. Do you remember Yorick?
Yeeharr!


----------



## azimo

guys, do we know how much of an increase %wise torch or marina heights have had since introduced up til now? if anyone had any flipping done and could put this in $ or pounds that be great. thank you.


----------



## new/wirral

Morrismarina said:


> Welcome to the forum NewWirral...........The Point is a good choice, will have incredible views and I have found DS a very good company to deal with ........I'm sure you'll be pleased with them as your build progresses. There is a dedicated thread for The Point (you'll find it in the Dubai Marina index) but please do not post investment issues there, keep them to this investment thread otherwise folks get very upset.
> Are you thinking about renting out long term or short term holiday lets ??


The thing is have bought 2 one bed apartments next to each other,myself & 2 friends,both on front.im new to all this so lets hope ive done the right thing!the cost is about 100k each,thats approx £400 month interest only(£100 per week)so its £300 per week for all 3 of us,so if rented for full 12 mths must cover £150 per apartment,still dont know the going rate for rent,any ideas what can be asked? long or short term,whatever pays the bills.although i aint been over,the location seems ok.any other good projects up & coming,100k or less(cheaper) .I did go on the point thread,well what can i say im here,is it more about design.Ta for info


----------



## Rider

*The Torch - Fitted wardrobes*

Hey Guys,

Does anyone know if Torch apartments come with built-in or fitted wardrobes in the bedrooms?

The specs in the contracts make reference to wardrobe doors being made from wood veneer but the illustrations on DS webisite show no wardrobes.

I don't have my contract at hand otherwise I could look up the detailed plans. 

Cheers


----------



## Naz UK

Rider said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Does anyone know if Torch apartments come with built-in or fitted wardrobes in the bedrooms?
> 
> The specs in the contracts make reference to wardrobe doors being made from wood veneer but the illustrations on DS webisite show no wardrobes.
> 
> I don't have my contract at hand otherwise I could look up the detailed plans.
> 
> Cheers


The revised illustrations (from the plan, not the artists impressions) clearly show fitted wardrobes in all bedrooms except the redesigned Marina view and media city view apts, which have huge walk-in wardrobes in between the bedroom and bathroom. Lucky bastards. I hope they all slip on soap and land on their sore arses (the ones with these redesigns)...oh Hi there Morris..didnt see you mate.


----------



## Morrismarina

Yes Naz, the walk-in wardrobe is so large I'm thinking of converting it into a second bedroom.......ha ha.
Sounds like you had a good buy NewWirral I thought the one beds were more expensive than £100k but guess the exchange rate has improved prices when converted to UK£.
With only £100 per week to cover in mortgage finance you're going to be laughing all the way to your account with Emirates Bank. I would guess at around £700/£800 per week per apartment in holiday rental income especially with the Marina views. The fantastic view would add some extra to the rent say £100 per week as against a non marina view for a one bed like mine in the Torch. But hey...I'm no expert only going what I've seen advertised around Dubai but the marina is hardly being rented out yet as not much is completed to date.
You will need though to factor in agents costs, unless you've got hundreds of friends who want to holiday in Dubai. Also there is a community charge thing to pay, a bit like council tax in the UK, not sure how much this is exactly could be around £800 per annum. And there will be the annual Point maintenance fee say £1,500 p.a. (only guessing here) plus electricity bills, could be quite high with the air con running costs. And then there's the cleaning charges, changing sheets etc. And then you have to spend some more money furnishing it when built and on-going you'll have to replace items. Also...sorry to go on...it might take a year to get the rental bookings up and running to a fair capacity. So there's quite a few things to take account of.
Don't forgot though to balance this up you'll have great capital appreciation - I reckon the prices will comfortably double in the next 5 years.
I'm also very confident that the Marina is going to be one of the best holiday locations in the world and you should do very well indeed with your investments. I definitely feel you've made the right decision to buy in the Marina, it's excellent value for money and despite what some investors have said on the forum DS are a very good company to deal with.


----------



## scoobydoobyBUY

Just don't believe anything they tell you!


----------



## Rider

I've heard that DS are possibly building more towers around the marina - even after the Point.
Looks like the Torch income could be used to buy up more plots.


----------



## Morrismarina

There you go.......sounds like DubaiSelect are doing very well then.


----------



## scoobydoobyBUY

*rental income for a Torch 1 bedroom*

Quote from an email by Adam Price of Dubai Select
sent in Jan 06

"The typical rental income you can expect to generate from a 1 bedroom apartment in the Torch has been estimated to be in between £1250 and 
£1650 per calendar month."


----------



## Krazy

^^ Too high of an estimate.. dont believe them


----------



## new/wirral

Well all i can go by is its £300 per week in Llandudno,thats just a room.If you have ever been then you will realise that the figures quoted in Dubai seem fine.Flights from Manchester what we talking price wise,cheers for reply morris.


----------



## Alt-Tab

Check any of the following sites, you wont find a 1 bed in the Marina for less than £100 a day. Meaning if you get 50% occupancy you would easily get a rental income of around £1500 per month. 

http://www.dubaishortbreaks.com/apartments.html
http://www.dubaifurnishedapartments.com/selfcater-main1.asp
http://www.expatriates.com/classifieds/dub/vr/
http://www.dubaivacationhomes.com/Default.aspx
http://www.worldhomesonline.com/pro...action=subAreaSearch&pager.offset=0&sort=true
http://www.travel-library.com/villas/middle_east/uae/dubai/
http://www.holidaylets.net/properties-in-dubai/20/1482/2
http://www.dubaiapartments.biz/
http://www.villarenters.com/villas-to-rent/dubai-marina/default.htm
http://www.moveandstay.com/dubai/apartments-for-rent.asp?room_type=4


However there is a huge shortage of apartments at the moment. We have to wait and see what happens, when JBR floods the market with thousands of apartments at the end of this year. 

AltTab


----------



## maltster

I've got a couple of apartments that will (hopefully) be completed during the last qtr of this year. I will almost certainly use one of them for long-term letting, whilst I decide about the other. I'm in Dubai for a week or so at the end of June and thought I would take the opportunity to speak to a few lease/letting agencies and try and get things organised before the apartments are completed.

Can anybody recommend some decent, reputable letting companies that I could visit whilst I'm out there. All suggestions/advice much appreciated.


----------



## Salty

Maltster,

Better Homes and Asteco seem to be the most well-established. If you PM me with your email address I'll send you some interesting info I obtained from Better Homes.

What will probably become clear is that this is a whole new world for them just as it is for us. I'd be interested to hear what they've got to say at the moment mind you!

Regards,

Salty


----------



## arfie

£1250-£1500 for a 1 bedroom ? I don't think you'll be getting that in 2008 when most of the apartments will be complete. I anticipate £800-1000 for 1 bed and £1500-£2000 for a 2 bedroom. There will be alot of properties on the market for rent from 2008 onwards.


----------



## scoobydoobyBUY

*Valuation comparison*

Does anyone know what a pool view from the balcony might be worth? !!
Dubai Select told us just 2 weeks ago (12 apt) that "Yes you will be able to see a clear view of the pool from your balcony", a blatant untruth. Now that we have become extremely dubious about any claims that are made, and looking at the plans, we finally got an admission that in fact there would be no view at all of the pool from the balcony guaranteed (due to the huge structural walls that jut out).

I guess what I am really looking for is a surveyor or someone who can assess the value (even though this is also personal) of what you are in reality getting versus the property you thought you were getting based on blatant false information (not just the view from the balcony!) from the sales people? Can anyone recommend such a person, preferably in the U.K.?


----------



## Naz UK

^^ Yes. Specsavers. Try them down your local highstreet. They're very good.


----------



## Rider

Scooby,

You could ask DS to install a state of the art angled mirror relector system which would transfer a view of the pool back to your balcony via a series of strategically positioned mirrors. The worst they can say is no - which will probably turn out to be yes.


----------



## new/wirral

whats the price of flights from manchester,best airline,cheers :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


----------



## Rider

You can fly direct from MAN to DXB with Emirates, who have a very good reputation.

Check out www.travelsupermarket.com for alternatives with connections.


----------



## scarlet_ohara

indirect flight man to doha.....doha to dubai qatar airways approx £250 economy

indirect flight man to abu dhabi..abu dhabi to dubai (via coach) app £260 economy

direct flight man to dubai emirates approx £450 economy

flight are cheaper during UK summer (jun/jul/aug)

try travelocity or airline-network websites


----------



## scoobydoobyBUY

When are you planning to travel? Ryanair have their eyes on Dubai, should be £1 each way.

But not from Manchester.


----------



## Admiror

Does anybody know when the Dubai land department are going to start the official registeration of the apartments to their owners under the new property law. Do you have to come to dubai personally to accomplish this. Thanks.


----------



## Naz UK

No and Yes. By-laws need to be passed in order for the first thing to happen. And a personal visit is a must to register your property and obtain a title deed.


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ as far as i know it is actually NOT a must to register in person, the developer of your property is supposed to hand the contract to the master developer who then registers your ownership with Dubai Municipality's Land Department?


----------



## new/wirral

scoobydoobyBUY said:


> When are you planning to travel? Ryanair have their eyes on Dubai, should be £1 each way.
> 
> But not from Manchester.


£1 each way sounds good,any cheaper flights out there!!


----------



## Naz UK

new/wirral said:


> £1 each way sounds good,any cheaper flights out there!!


Cheaper than £1??? Are you on drugs??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## new/wirral

Naz UK said:


> Cheaper than £1??? Are you on drugs??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


is it £1 return,on drugs i wish,the coach from abu dhabi how long does it take?


----------



## kano

As a lawyer i have been checking on rental properties in dubai. investors in Dubai . One thing i have been able to find out is that that although the property may be considered freehold if you were to put your market you may not be able to get it back for some time if the tenant refuses to leave as the Tribunals in Dubai usually favour the tenant in nearly all occasions even though you may have given a long notice ....so it appears that it is presumed that a tenancy is renewable for as long as the tenant wishes to stay there................any thoughts?


----------



## maltster

^^ There have been complaints recently that landlords are getting round the 15% rent increase cap introduced by the Dubai government, by serving notice on tenants and then re-letting them at vastly increased rates. The fact that this has been occurring and reported on would suggest that terminating tenancies, so long as it is in-line with the tenancy agreement, may not be that problamatical.


----------



## Gorilla

what is "flipping" everyone is talking about :|


----------



## Morrismarina

"Flipping" covers a few scenarios. It's where;

1) You purchase a property in a foreign country without first visiting the site where it's to be built to verify the information you have been given.

2) You sign your contract without even looking at it.

3) You then, after you have commited yourself to your property, start to continually slag off the developer to put off anybody else buying into the development, on the basis that what you have purchased will then fall substantially in value. (It's similar to a turkey voting for Christmas).

Sorry if my explanation was bit brief, if you need more detailed information have a word with ScoobydoobyBuy.


----------



## Admiror

Thanks Naz and Flo for your reply


----------



## Dubai_Steve

scoobydoobyBUY said:


> Does anyone know what a pool view from the balcony might be worth? !!


About £4.57 I think.


----------



## scoobydoobyBUY

*Dubious Selection*

Morris, are you slagging me off? !!
Seriously you have seen some of the major problems we and others have had with Dubai Select. Lets take an a simple example, the balcony. As you are aware Dubai Select until April of this year had been deceiving some potential investors for almost 1 year into believing the corner balconies were huge (13 sqm was the original size) with views to the front left and right.

http://www.jeenterprises.com/balconyweweretoldwewerebuying.jpg

This was a major selling point passed to us via brochures, the website, and email direct from Adam Price which led us to send off the -non-refundable- reservation fee of £2000 in January 06. The Dubai Select procedure is for customers to send this non-refundable reservation -prior- to issuing the contract.

We realised in late March that this is the balcony we will in fact be getting:

http://www.jeenterprises.com/miserablebalcony.jpg 
(now 3.7sqm with severely restricted view)

The website was finally after almost one year updated in late April 06 with a correct plan.

In any case the contract did -not- contain an apartment plan. 
Dubai Select fails to acknowledge this deception (and others) or try to make amends.

Without chewing the cud regarding all the other problems and deceptions, please let us know how you rate Dubai Select on this one alone:

a) out of this world
b) fantastic
c) average
d) poor
e) shite
f) criminal

Thanks again Morris for your input, we can rate all the other problems I've mentioned before if you wish! Don't forget Dubai Select have told me that only about 10 people use this forum so this will be between friends! We want to be friends with Dubai Select but this seems difficult to achieve.




Morrismarina said:


> "Flipping" covers a few scenarios. It's where;
> 
> 1) You purchase a property in a foreign country without first visiting the site where it's to be built to verify the information you have been given.
> 
> 2) You sign your contract without even looking at it.
> 
> 3) You then, after you have commited yourself to your property, start to continually slag off the developer to put off anybody else buying into the development, on the basis that what you have purchased will then fall substantially in value. (It's similar to a turkey voting for Christmas).
> 
> Sorry if my explanation was bit brief, if you need more detailed information have a word with ScoobydoobyBuy.


Morris Marina


----------



## Morrismarina

Thanks for all that Scooby...........you've confirmed exactly the point I was making. People just don't go around saying that their own baby is ugly.


----------



## scoobydoobyBUY

*clones*

Morrismarina, lets be friends. We are all claiming to have invested our money in the Torch and hope for the best. I admit the marketing material and website information and the friendly staff in Dubai Select are just great. If only they told the truth.
This is a forum where according to Katie Moores of Dubai Select there are only about 10 people involved, so don't panic. Everything we claim is backed up with hard evidence, so why do you not try to help? we are in this together, apparently.
By the way, as this is an 'anonymous forum' where people sign on anonymously, is it true that you and Naz U.K. are one and the same person? e.g. Mark Stott? !!
There are 3 years ahead of us all (or 2 years if on schedule) so there is time to try and ensure an amazing quality building is constructed, instead of blindly accepting that DS has our money, therefore they can cut costs to the detriment of the building standards for the investors, pay labourers so little (perhaps slaves, apparently £10 a day to be confirmed...) all in aid of maximising Mark Stott's profit (not our profit).


----------



## Morrismarina

Okay Scooby I don't really want to fall out with you, yes you are right in a number of points you have raised such as the website being incorrect, having to pay £2k non-refundable reservation fee without having the contract etc. etc. .
I can see you're clearly not happy with the design of your apartment, the smaller balcony and also that the views may not be as advertised etc.etc. . but at the end of the day your contract does stipulate that DS can change the design which is a risk of buying off-plan. 
To be honest I'm just really intrigued as to why you have not taken the refund DS have offered you and bought in another tower ?? You had said a few days ago on TT thread that in your opinion there has been no increase in the value of a Torch investment "a big zero" so surely you'd be overjoyed to have all your money back ???
Now for some bizarre reason you don't want to tell us why ?? I assume then that underneath all this you must be fairly happy with your purchase and certainly don't want hand it back to DS. All I would say is please acknowledge that a full refund was offered (come on lets be fair to DS here) and that you declined it and tell us the reason why.

(By the way your comment about me and Naz being Mark Stott was very funny...had me falling off my chair....nice one).


----------



## Rider

*Which area in Dubai to invest in?*

Guys,

If you had £100k to play with - which area or project in Dubai would you invest in for the best capital gain and rental income potential? a 1 bed on the marina perhaps, jumeira lakes or should i wait for Dubailand.

Just looking to get an idea of general opinion.

cheers


----------



## mission

I think the marina is the best place to invest,

I brought my 1 bedroom apartment in October 2004 for 480,000dr. Aint got a clue how much its worth now :eek2: , but the rental vlue of it i have been told is about 8k a year.

So i would rec the marina all the way unless you can afford the world or the palm


----------



## Morrismarina

I agree. I was told the best development was The World followed by The Palm and then in third place The Marina. In any part of the world the word "marina" explains exactly what it is - near the coast, water, lots of boats etc. A property near water will always be the best development. Also the marina is right next to the beach area and some properties will have sea views. Yes there are those inland developments on the water such as Jemeriah Lakes but I reckon the word "marina" just does it all.


----------



## mission

I toally agree, 
The Marina sounds really upmarket.

Cant wait for it all to be completed its will be well worth waiting for


----------



## Morrismarina

Mission your apartment was a very good price just wondered where have you bought ??


----------



## mission

TIMEPLACE


----------



## azurkiyeh

The Palm Jumeirah is another good place to invest, especially on the shoreline apartments!!


----------



## mission

anything on the palm is a good investment,


----------



## Morrismarina

A good buy Mission, Timeplace is great, right on the edge of the Marina, a lovely location.


----------



## Krazy

Can someone please give me the telephone number for Barclays in Dubai?


----------



## Rider

Krazy, 

Barclays number is +971 (0) 4362 6888


----------



## scoobydoobyBUY

Does anyone have the number for Tescos in Manchester?


----------



## mission

Scooby that actually made me laugh


----------



## Krazy

thanks Rider!


----------



## DubaiDream

Oh Gosh! it really seems like the price of villas have significantly increased over the past year in Dubai. and theres a shortage of freehold villas. Are there any more villa developments to come? All i c is apartments shooting up all over the place

Wheres my best chance of getting a half decent villa and how much is it going to cost me


----------



## azurkiyeh

IFA Hotels & Resorts launches IFA Properties 

IFA Hotels & Resorts (IFA HR), leaders in the development of premier integrated and mixed-use hotel and tourism resort projects throughout the world, launches IFA Properties. IFA Properties is a subsidiary of IFA Hotels & Resorts, and will focus on property sales, property consulting and property investment management to both commercial developers and individual buyers. 

At a corporate level, IFA Properties will provide a turn-key solution by offering external sales and marketing services for developers seeking access to international exposure and strategic positioning. IFA Properties can develop new market sectors on behalf of other developments by leveraging a solid platform and worldwide client base, which has been created globally through IFA Hotels & Resort's existing sales projects. 

For consumers, IFA Properties will provide a one-stop-shop to individuals seeking to invest and purchase properties around the world, supported by a full suite of real estate advice on each market. In addition to IFA Hotels & Resort's existing signature developments, IFA Properties will also sell properties on behalf of other developments outside of the existing portfolio. 

Werner Burger, President & COO of IFA HR, said: "With over AED1 billion of international sales in 2005, it is a natural progression to diversify our company based on client needs and the growing property market. Following the launch of each of our successful sales and marketing campaigns, we have seen considerable demand to provide these services to other developers, and therefore we are primarily looking at international projects, on a selective basis, for which IFA Properties can offer their services. Locally, IFA Properties will primarily focus on individual investors where we have seen demand from our clients to purchase other upmarket homes beyond our existing portfolio." 

For commercial developers, the track record for IFA Hotels & Resorts speaks for itself. Throughout their projects, they have achieved phenomenal off-plan sales, demonstrated by the recent Movenpick Hotel & Residence Laguna Tower project which has achieved a pre-sales rate of 90% in just over five months since its launch date, in addition to the well publicized Palm Golden Mile project where they sold 778 units within 48 hours. Their two shoreline buildings on The Palm, Jumeirah, achieved a 15% premium to the market, based on a sales strategy which delivers a premium service offering over and above the other shoreline apartments. Internationally in South Africa, they have increased international sales from 3% in 2004 to 21% in December 2005 at their Zimbali Coastal Resort. 

Wayne Holder, Sales Director IFA Properties, said: "We offer a "boutique style" exclusive service to clients and partners providing quality, service and value. We know that international investors and buyers require premium services and we intend to be a class apart in this highly competitive arena. We offer advice to buyers on a project by project basis, right through to tailoring an international portfolio of properties for investors who wish to invest in a wider geographic area." 

Talal Al Bahar, Chairman and Managing Director of IFA HR, concluded: "IFA Properties is a strategic step in the growth of our company, as we are now able to leverage our existing infrastructure to a wider market. We are targeting our new business at a discerning audience who enjoy an exclusive lifestyle in quality surroundings with the finest services. IFA Properties confirms our commitment to expand and diversify throughout our global network making a considerable contribution to earnings, and is part of the overall expansion strategy for IFA Hotels & Resorts." 



For further information please visit our websites: 

www.ifaproperties.com
www.ifahotelsresorts.com

Tel: +971-4-3602938
Fax: + 971-4-3664644
[email protected]




IFA HOTELS & RESORTS FACILITIES & PROJECTS:

The Fairmont Hotel & Resort, The Fairmont Palm Vacation Club 

The Fairmont Palm Residence, www.fairmontpalmresidence.com 

The Palm Golden Mile, www.thepalmgoldenmile.com 

Zimbali Coastal Resort, South Africa, www.zimbali.co.za 

Zimbali Lodge Hotel, www.suninternational.co.za/Resorts/Zimbali 

Zanzibar Beach Hotel & Resort, www.zanzibarbeachhotel.com 

Sheraton Algarve & Pine Cliffs Resort , Portugal, www.pinecliffs.com 

Laguna Tower / Movenpick Hotel, www.lagunatower.com 

IFA Properties, www.ifaproperties.com 

IFA Travel and Tourism, www.ifatraveltourism.com 

IFA Yacht Ownership Club, www.ifayoc.com 

Al-Abadiyah Hills Resort Lebanon - Managed By Kempinski, www.abadiyahhills.com


----------



## new/wirral

*its a lovely day*

is IFA LIKE DUBAI SELECT :cheers: :cheers:


----------



## new/wirral

*its so hot here*



DubaiDream said:


> Oh Gosh! it really seems like the price of villas have significantly increased over the past year in Dubai. and theres a shortage of freehold villas. Are there any more villa developments to come? All i c is apartments shooting up all over the place
> 
> Wheres my best chance of getting a half decent villa and how much is it going to cost me


keep me posted on the villas ta,its hot today must be close on 20 degrees, :cheers:


----------



## mission

Does anyone know roughly how much my property in TIMEPLACE is now worth.

1 bedroom 703sq with rd view no balcony.

Some advice would be appreciated


----------



## NeilP

If people cannot raise investment questions on other threads ! Why do people who have obviously never invested a single Dirham bother with an investment thread. It seems very odd to me.


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ what r u talking about?

do u have any idea of my investments or those of my family in Dubai or elsewhere?

same goes for krazy.

so keep ur mouth shut.

---

samir, point is that most people searching for short term rentals don't think the marina is the best place for this at the moment, since i doubt most of them search for a holiday let.


----------



## dubaiflo

Future scenarios for Dubai real estate


It is a truth not always universally accepted that conventional wisdom is often wrong. There are so many people who did not buy Dubai property who would like the market to crash that it probably is unlikely to oblige them. Other market scenarios look rather different and should be taken more seriously.
United Arab Emirates: 12 hours, 24 minutes ago

Many visitors getting off an aircraft in Dubai take one look at the huge population of tower cranes, 30,000 according to one estimate this week, and conclude that a property crash must be imminent. 

Yet the market forces that put all those tower cranes there in the first place are not about to disappear overnight and there are so many factors weighing in favor of the continued growth of Dubai that the pessimists are unlikely to be proven right anytime soon. After all, in markets timing is everything, and saying something long enough until you are right is just not a business strategy, let alone a way to buy a home. 

For one thing, the Dubai property market continues to absorb the supply of property as it emerges, and rising rental and property prices this year confirm that there is still a shortage of accommodation in pretty much all categories. 


Huge GDP growth
Last year the UAE was probably the fastest growing economy in the world with 26 per cent nominal GDP growth, and this dynamic is attracting a huge inflow of people. Everybody has to live somewhere and even a supply of property growing like mushrooms can not keep up, for the time being. 

The real test for Dubai real estate will therefore possibly not emerge until this rate of GDP growth slows down. The oil price is still the key to the UAE economy, and any weakness here will flow through to the property sector. But the oil price is currently close to a record high, and geo-political instability is more likely to shift prices higher than lower. 

The huge supply of property now being delivered in Dubai is actually very timely. Without this new space the city's rentals would have spiked to even higher levels that would deter new business activity, as has so often been seen before in emerging markets. 


Growth dynamic
Indeed, real estate is now a large part of the dynamic UAE economy, and will help to sustain the booming economy in any oil price downturn. Moreover, much of this investment is from equity sources and not borrowed money, so it is unlikely to dry up and leave property uncompleted as happened in the Asian Financial Crisis of the late 1990s. 

For the reality of the Third Great Oil Boom in the Middle East is that surplus wealth has been invested back into property development on a heroic scale. 

If the oil boom ever goes bust this modern infrastructure will still remain to sustain the local economy. But in a world of scarcer natural resources is it not more likely that Dubai will become the even more sophisticated urban centre of an energy rich region; and possibly richer than Singapore or Hong Kong, with property prices to match?

----
Answer: NO!


----------



## Krazy

NeilP my family has invested in multiple ongoing projects in Dubai just like Flo. And besides you dont have to be an invester to post your comments and suggestions. This is an open forum - its not dubaipropertyforum.com where only the investers are allowed to post.


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ well it seems like we are not respectable enough to be investors samir, even ur moderator job does not help


----------



## Krazy

maybe because we dont go crazy asking for updates and discuss the brand of tiles we'll have in our bathrooms


----------



## Rahmani

Is there a chart of average real estate price growth since 1990? Or other long term chart?


----------



## Krazy

no but the growth in prices is very clear... for example we were offered a 5 bedroom villa in the springs for Dhs 800,000 in 2002 but we didnt take it :doh:


----------



## Rahmani

Krazy said:


> no but the growth in prices is very clear... for example we were offered a 5 bedroom villa in the springs for Dhs 800,000 in 2002 but we didnt take it :doh:


So how much is this worth now?


----------



## Rahmani

Krazy said:


> no but the growth in prices is very clear... for example we were offered a 5 bedroom villa in the springs for Dhs 800,000 in 2002 but we didnt take it :doh:


So how much is this worth now?


----------



## dubaiflo

somewhere in the 2m range?


----------



## nord

*Searching*

Hey guys, I'm new to your forum and think it's really awesome. 
I'm unable to locate a search function and am looking for a development called Casa Del Mar located in the Dubai Marina. Does anyone have any info about this?
thanks


----------



## Krazy

here u go nord

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=216608


----------



## lovedubai

I'm trying to pull out of Eden Gardens as the whole basis of the contract has been totally altered. Initially it was meant to be serviced apartments with furniture and parking. The apartments would all be managed by Better Homes who would distribute the revenue based on your share of the entire building, so therefore not dependent on whether each individual apartment was let. My agent Property Frontiers and the Eden Gardens/ Better Homes team have not been in touch since taking my money in November. I only found out about the changes by chasing them. Despite endless phone calls and emails, I'm getting nowhere. Absolute nightmare!


----------



## DubaiDream

it will be interesting to see the impact of rising interest rates on dubai property, my view is that it will impact but still outperform other foreign property assets

of course there is a view that buyers are not sensitive to this driver, im not sure to what extent this is true. global interest rates have fallen to all time lows and have fuelled a boom in liquidity

i believce tehre is a shortage of villas for the foreseeable future 2


----------



## NeilP

Krazy and Dubaiflo

People with lots of money or other peoples money do not always worry about detail. Others who have invested hard earned cash do worry about their investments thousands of miles away, and have an unquenchable desire for information about their property. If we ask detail questions on individual threads Krazy complains about it.

That said u2 provide some excellent info and chat from time to time. Keep up the good work.


----------



## cheath

*JLT and saba*

First time post. So I will say hello.

We signed up for a Saba apartment in Nov 2004. It is a corner 2-bed circa 1300 sq.ft. We paid 1.29m AED (think we probably overpaid) What do you think?

No one seems to mention Saba or JLT. So any thoughts?

Happy with Dubai as a location mind we have visted it 3 or 4 times in the past couple of years


----------



## Krazy

NeilP said:


> Krazy and Dubaiflo
> 
> People with lots of money or other peoples money do not always worry about detail. Others who have invested hard earned cash do worry about their investments thousands of miles away, and have an unquenchable desire for information about their property. If we ask detail questions on individual threads Krazy complains about it.
> 
> That said u2 provide some excellent info and chat from time to time. Keep up the good work.


NeilP if you're implying that I have "lots" of money, you're highly mistaken. Please don't assume that I have money to throw just because I have invested. My money is as "hard earned" as yours, if not more. Anyway this is a pointless argument. 

I apologize if you feel I complain too much but that's what the majority wants here - no investment related discussions in project threads. It's not my decision. If today majority agrees that investment discussions should be allowed, I will be the first person to let you guys discuss that in project threads.


----------



## Krazy

cheath said:


> First time post. So I will say hello.
> 
> We signed up for a Saba apartment in Nov 2004. It is a corner 2-bed circa 1300 sq.ft. We paid 1.29m AED (think we probably overpaid) What do you think?
> 
> No one seems to mention Saba or JLT. So any thoughts?
> 
> Happy with Dubai as a location mind we have visted it 3 or 4 times in the past couple of years


Yes paying almost Dhs 1000/sq ft for an apartment in JLT is in fact overpaying - especially JLT where the standard price for a 2 bedroom seems to be around Dhs 800/sq ft. For the price you paid, you could have bought a decent two bedroom apartment in Marina - a project better imo for both living and investing. But dont worry, JLT is a good location too and I'm sure it will be nice on completion (not for another 3 years at least).


----------



## Gorilla

Krazy said:


> I apologize if you feel I complain too much but that's what the majority wants here - no investment related discussions in project threads. It's not my decision. If today majority agrees that investment discussions should be allowed, I will be the first person to let you guys discuss that in project threads.


if with majority u mean a couple of people who are the loudest and have ambitions of becoming mods then I disagree with you. However this question was never asked and so the answer is unknown. How about a pole if not opposed by the gang!


----------



## Toofif

*Y-a-w-n*

Naz, it's time to grow up mate. Either you suffer from attention deficit disorder or you're connected with Dubai Select. I'm starting to think it's a bit of both.

Let's remember that Dubai Select have delivered nothing yet so we can hardly judge them. But let's just agree that, like all Dubai developers, they are not perfect... after all, I'm reading complaints about disappearing balconies after contracts have been signed and before construction has even started! For me personally, the balcony is a very important part of an apartment and I'd be livid if Damac changed the format of my balconies after I'd signed the contract. No one else is ruining the Torch thread by stating this 10 times a day (but I could start now if you like?)

I've also spoken with Dubai Select on a number of occasions over the last couple of years and I can assure you they've tried to give me the hard sell on a number of different properties. They've also been very quick to confidently state 'tax benefits' which are at best misleading and at worst factually incorrect. Luckily for me I have a reasonable grasp of the tax situation but I wonder how many people have been duped by this tactic? No matter what company you deal with, the guys you talk to are Salesmen and anyone who believes 100% of what they say is naive.

At the end of the day, it's the contract that matters. Anyway Naz, I'm sure your Torch contract includes all fo the following:

1. late completion compensation?
2. staged payments linked to construction stages rather than dates?
3. max. maintenance charges (say 8 AED/sq.ft.) in writing?

As my DAMAC one does, then I couldn't really give a monkeys what you spout off about Jaguars/catering companies. And frankly, I've got a lot more confidence about the size of Damac's operation than Dubai Select who, up until a year or so ago, appeared to be just an agency. We can hardly declare them the Kings of Construction just yet.

So how about growing up a bit for the benefit of this everyone on this forum?


----------



## Naz UK

"The construction of the tower is already underway, with the piling nearing completion and the project is expected to be completed by the end of 2006."

The above quote is from an agent's site (Investors Provident) about Ocean Heights. Now, the below quote is from Melanie, at the Damac Manchester office today at 10am:

"Completion has been delayed unfortunately due to a lack of readily available construction workers and his now expected 4th quarter 2009."

She did also say that it could be well possible its delayed further, into 2010. That was this morning, at 10am. So there you go. I rest my case.


----------



## Naz UK

Toofif, I take your comments on board, thank you very much. As a Damac investor, I can clearly understand why you would be annoyed at my comments about Damac. Thanks for your input though.


----------



## Toofif

How did you get through to DAMAC, I thought they never answer the phone?

Okay, so that's one defamatory and frequently made nonsense that you can save us all reading from now on. Please now take the point with your comments about catering/jaguars etc etc etc.

Your post about delayed construction is worth reading (for once). It's unacceptable to shift dates like this. This isn't limited to Ocean Heights or DAMAC though, it's pandemic in Dubai. When companies like Wind are conducting themselves in an infinitely worse way I wonder why you take such a special & detailed interest in DAMAC? I only assume you have a vested interest somewhere along the line. As I've stated before, I've bought with DAMAC and, to date, have no complaints whatsoever.

By the way Naz, what's your opinion about changing balcony sizes in Torch? Do you think this is acceptable? And does your contract include late completion compensation clauses because you might just need those later on? Genuinely interested to hear your comments (as long as they're not in your usual 'playground' style).


----------



## Naz UK

I'm still in shock over the first point. It's the first time i've ever spoken to anyone from Damac over the phone, and that's not through lack of trying, believe me.

There is nothing "playground" about genuine concerns about a company that I honestly believe is more concerned with its international image and "name-dropping" than actually delivering an acceptable level of service to its investors.

Why do i bang on about Damac? I've answered this one already a few times in an amongst the "Damac" threads. But once again.. because I almost bought a 1-bed in OH before instinct got the better of me and I had my suspicions, which i must say, were actually well founded now in hindsight. I have never once considered buying in the Wind Towers (any interest in the development on my behalf was purely sarcasm).

Another way of looking at it is this: DAMAC have single-handedly beaten their own drum in Dubai (and elsewhere now) more than all the other developers in Dubai put together, including Emaar and Nakheel! They constantly tell the world "how wonderful they are, how many awards they've won" etc etc. It gets a bit boring after a while, but the point is, if you're gona go to such lengths to self-promote yourself, then you'd better watch out when things go wrong, as they clearly have done in Marina Terrace (burst pipes and flooding) and Ocean Heights (unacceptable delays). I hope that answers your questions.

Final point (once again answered in Part 3 of the Torch threads) the balconies in the brochures were "illustrations". The balcony designs in the "actual" contract never changed since 2005. That's all there is to it.

And yes of course it does include late completion compensation clauses. It's an off-plan property contract!!!


----------



## Toofif

Naz UK said:


> ...It gets a bit boring after a while, but the point is, if you're gona go to such lengths to self-promote yourself, then you'd better watch out when things go wrong...


The same could be said of you and your promotion of Dubai Select. Remember, they've only dug a hole so far.

I would consider the 'Tax Advice' Dubai Select's salespeople tried to give me to be dangerously misleading - anyone who's UK resident/ordinarily resident taken that advice could end up in a serious mess. The difference between you and I is that I don't ruin this forum by ranting about it in every single post. I can add it to my signature though if you like? Hmmm, how many cheap jokes can I make up about it as well (give me an hour and I'll make up 1000)? How about I also put something in there about the uninterrupted sea/marina views Dubai Select also unequivocally stated etc etc etc.

I'm pleased with my own choice of DAMAC/Lake View. However, I don't support them like a football team and I welcome valid & balanced criticism of them and other developers. For you it's Dubai Select v DAMAC and that's getting very boring especially with your childish & myopic posts.


----------



## malec

How about we stop this torch vs ocean heights crap


----------



## Naz UK

Naz UK said:


> if you're gona go to such lengths to self-promote yourself, then you'd better watch out when things go wrong, as they clearly have done in Marina Terrace (burst pipes and flooding) and Ocean Heights (unacceptable delays).


I was referring to Damac, not you!!! Read it again. As in, if Damac are going to continually bang on about how great they are, they should be able to take criticism when things go wrong. I am not the one perpetuating a childish argument here, I am posting about DAMAC!!! NOT INDIVIDUALS ON THIS FORUM LIKE SOME PEOPLE.


----------



## Toofif

Naz UK said:


> ...It gets a bit boring after a while, but the point is, if you're gona go to such lengths to self-promote yourself...


I read it the first time, thanks. The point (and perhaps it was too subtle)was, that reading your remarks every day gets a bit boring and I can only think it's because YOU like to promote YOURSELF. Why else do you say the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over? Don't you think we heard you the first time?

Everyone's entitled to their opinion and all developers are open to criticism. It's just that some of us are fed up with reading the same old rubbish from you day in, day out. Like I said, if you want me to post my crap experiences with Dubai Select at every opportunity then just let me know. I can even make one up about no-one answering their phone.


----------



## Morrismarina

To be honest I'm not an expert when it comes to Damac having not had any dealings with them - Ocean Heights is a great looking tower one of my favourites along with Infinity.
I'm buying at into the Torch and agree that DubaiSelect do not have a record yet of building anything but it is unfair to start saying that their projects are going to be delayed just because this happens with other developers. It may just be the case that DS prove everybody wrong and do deliver on time at the end of the day. Let's keep an open mind.
What I can say though is that DS keep everybody up to date with their Memebers section on their website constantly updating it with construction photos and messages. Name me another developer that does this ? Also the phone is always answered first time when I ring them. And....they are even going to install a webcam when the flooring stage is underway... has Damac or any other developer done this....I doubt it.
Somehow I get the feeling that DS want to do things the right way ....but of course only time will tell.
With regards the change in balcony size on some of the smaller two bed apartments the current floor plan (including the reduced balcony) was contained within the contract and investors only have themselves to blame by not looking at it before signing. (I myself would prefer the smaller balcony and the larger lounge/dining area so I guess not everybody would be unhappy with the changes that occurred BEFORE THE CONTRACTS WERE ISSUED).
With regard to taxation advice I normally ask my accountant or the Inland Revenue...... not an estate agent.


----------



## VEEZEE

There surely must be some way of preventing this guy Naz from spewing filth accross all forums. All his comments are deeply motivated, defamatory, slanerous, and libelous towards one particular developer. All that he is interested in is to lament over Damac and gloat over DS.


----------



## Ashka

Naz UK said:


> The question was "have Damac delivered a project on time yet?". And the answer is still a "No."


NAZ-UK you have to be an inbred. I can bet my Damac apartment on it if you like!
Afterall, there is no other explaination for you not grasping polite reasoning and instead getting peoples backs up to your enjoyment.

You didn't buy into OH. Neither did I? My reasons were its location and surrouding development. Not to mention the Torch behind it.

FYI, I also had researched into TT and had cordial chats with DS. The sales team is no different to anywhere else in the World. Their bread is buttered on a 'close'. You were charmed by the ladies at DS rather than a Jag + discount from Damac. I don't know of your perversion in that arena but I can make a good guess!

Move on son! You are only going to continue to disgrace yourself.

PS
Sorry everyone else.


----------



## Morrismarina

I must correct you Veezee you obviously know very little about legal matters.... Naz's posts cannot be slanderous....slander is when something is spoken......libel is when something is written....so as Naz is not communicating verbally he cannot be charged with slander. :bash:


----------



## Naz UK

Ashka said:


> NAZ-UK you have to be an inbred. I can bet my Damac apartment on it if you like!
> Afterall, there is no other explaination for you not grasping polite reasoning and instead getting peoples backs up to your enjoyment.
> 
> You didn't buy into OH. Neither did I? My reasons were its location and surrouding development. Not to mention the Torch behind it.
> 
> FYI, I also had researched into TT and had cordial chats with DS. The sales team is no different to anywhere else in the World. Their bread is buttered on a 'close'. You were charmed by the ladies at DS rather than a Jag + discount from Damac. I don't know of your perversion in that arena but I can make a good guess!
> 
> Move on son! You are only going to continue to disgrace yourself.
> 
> PS
> Sorry everyone else.


I feel like doing a "Stephan" : :lol: :rofl: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: btw, Ashka, that number for Dubai Select you were after, its 0870 111 0000. Tell 'em I referred you mate and just explain the situation that you made a grave mistake with Damac. I'm sure they'll understand. They'll allow you some time to get your money back off Peter and you'll end up saving some too! Take care and good luck mate. 

P.S. Please don't take too long in paying your 10% deposit, otherwise I don't get my commission! Seen a lovely 42" plasma HD tele at Currys!!! :rofl:


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## Krazy

Time for Part 3.


----------



## Krazy

*Property & Investment in Dubai: Your questions about the market*

Continue the investment :blahblah:


----------



## BankerMan

Ragga in his Post # 422 (previous thread) wrote: 

“*[/I]My analysis is this... for the renters, obviously they are going to complain as rents will continue to go high. For the early property buyers, most of them they bought at 5-10% off preconstruction prices (if they were smart and made deals), so even if there is a dip it wont affect them too much, they will still be positive. It is the late property buyers that it will hurt tremendously if it crashes or dips a lot. We will have to wait and see*_.”

This is an excellent analysis of the direction that the property market in Dubai could take. I would like to expand on this a bit and show how various factors in play at the moment in Dubai will impact the property market.

Property investors in Dubai can be broadly classified into three categories:

(1) Those who have bought property *and* have taken possession of it. The folks in this category are clearly the winners and will enjoy substantial returns from their investments, not only as a result of capital appreciation but also good cashflows from rental income.

(2) Those who have bought property in buildings that are 50% or more complete. Provided the buildings are completed on time (or with a “short” delay), the folks in this category could also be winners and may benefit from capital appreciation and some rental cashflows.....but could also face problems.

(3) Those who have bought property in buildings that have not yet started construction or where construction has recently started. These folks could face serious problems going forward.

The reason I say folks in categories 2 and 3 could face serious problems is simply that there is very little likelihood they will be able to take possession of their property on time. I am certain there will be delays in the handing over of properties, and such delays will be of 2 to 4 years duration. Thus, for example, those folks who expected to get their property in 2006 will likely get them in 2008 or 2009, and so forth.

My statement above, of course, begs the question “*Why* will there be such massive delays in completing the buildings?” Here are the reasons why:

(1) The cost of steel and cement has not only tripled this year but both items are in short supply. If a developer sold flats and/or offices in their building in 2004 or 2005 without having a hugely adequate cushion for increases in costs, such developers could very well face the prospect of taking a loss in the project……and, believe me when I say that not a single developer will take a loss.

(2) The huge increases in oil price during the past few months has also raised the price of other building materials (pipes, fittings, tiles, etc.). Again, this will raise the cost of the project.

(3) Over the past few months, we have seen daily demonstrations and strikes by construction workers demanding better pay and living conditions. Even the Americans have got into the act when, in Free Trade negotiations with UAE authorities, they insisted on the UAE enacting minimum wages. Should there be wage increases for construction workers, this will again cause costs to skyrocket.

(4) Also over the past few weeks, there has been a disturbingly high incidence of power failure in Dubai affecting mostly the newly-developed areas of the city. Could this be an indication of endemic power shortage in Dubai, given all the new units that have come on-stream recently? Have there been massive increases in *power generation capacity * in Dubai? If the answer is no, then there will be further delays in the completion or handing over of new buildings as developers wait to get electricity in their buildings.

We have already witnessed slowdowns in construction, and the slowdown in endemic. Most developers will make some excuse or the other about the delays, but the bottom line is always money…..costs have gone up, their profits have dwindled away, and they are now caught between a rock and a hard place. Will the developers behave like good corporate citizens, stick to the contracts signed and complete the buildings, come what may?? I don’t know.

However, like I said in the first few paragraphs above….those who have taken possession of their property can bask in the hot sun of Dubai and enjoy considerable cashflows from rental income. Not for long, however…..those buildings that are already completed (and there are a huge number of units in these buildings) will soon come onto the market and rents will trend down, but not by much. Prices will also move downwards.

Those who haven’t taken possession of their property can look forward to pretty long delays, lost income, and probably mounting costs as interest rates trend upwards. If your contract requires most of the funds to be paid upfront, then you will be out-of-pocket for a long time.

Mine is, as usual, a contrarian view……I am certain very few will agree with me. Certainly, those who have invested their hard-earned life savings in Dubai’s property will not accept anything that I’ve said above. But these are simply my thoughts and opinions to which I am entitled, exactly the way you folks are entitled to your views. At any rate, good luck to all you brave Dubai property investors......I wish you well._


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## kano

^^^ Your analysis is probably correct.....will just have to wait and see.....people have been talking about a bubble burst since two years now and it has not really happended yet, although people are now being cautious and wanting to buy completed rather than off plan.You are ofcourse right that there will be many buildings that are already completed which will soon come onto the market and rents and prices will go down at some point.


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## new/wirral

well thats just great news :scouserd: is currys best place for plasma tvs  are electrical goods cheapish in dubai :cheers: :cheers:


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## new/wirral

for example the point,if possession & occupation of the property continues to be delayed beyond 30th march 2009,if the buyer has fulfilled all his obligations(1year late).then refund of amounts paid.no other claims in respect of damages or compensation.so are we saying builders are not accountable?..................is there a forum on furniture packages,best place to buy   ............................ :cheers: :cheers:


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## Tractor

The mass of new units going onto the market is more likely to hurt rental incomes (both short and long term contracts) than the prices of properties themselves. As you say, costs are going up - labour, materials, etc. and so it will soon be impossible for any new development to build as cheaply as the existing developments ... prices will rise AT LEAST according to the inflation of construction costs. Labour is the big one for me - Indian workers are now reluctant to come to Dubai as salaries in their home country are rapidly on the increase. Dubai will have to at least match this.

The majority of the units in completed or nearly completed buildings are already owned by someone else so there is unlikely to be a deluge of cut-price properties going on the market. Few investors will sell at a loss while there is rental demand.

The problem for many future developments is many have to be pre-sold to a certain percentage (e.g. 60%) to actually be built! This will cause significant delays to many.

That's my 10pence worth!


----------



## Morrismarina

The UK newspaper The Independent are running a Dubai Special today.... some very interesting comments

Here's the link:

http://money.independent.co.uk/property/homes/article322417.ece

Also if you click on the right hand side of the article there are some more Dubai Special wrtie-ups.


----------



## Morrismarina

Thanks for your great post Bankerman.........could you tell me from which outlet you purchased your crystal ball ???


----------



## V Kapoor

kano said:


> ^^^ Your analysis is probably correct.....will just have to wait and see.....people have been talking about a bubble burst since two years now and it has not really happended yet, although people are now being cautious and wanting to buy completed rather than off plan.You are ofcourse right that there will be many buildings that are already completed which will soon come onto the market and rents and prices will go down at some point.



Hope NAZ doesn't read post 2 above..


----------



## xrayman

Hi,
have u looked at the red residence and kensington royale by MED in sports city.they are serviced apartments and the split is 60/40.
i have bought in windsor residence in city of arabia with them.they were very good and professional.


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## Morrismarina

Naz will be back soon.


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## Krazy

*New buildings could see rents fall says report*

A new study sees rents in Dubai stabilising or even falling as new developments reach completion. However, it also questions whether the relief will be too little too late.

“With the completion of the proposed projects in the UAE and the change in the investment patterns of the population, it is imminent that prices may stabilise or even fall, thereby gradually transforming the market from an investors’ market into a buyers’ market,” said a study released by the Dubai Chamber of Commerce and Industry (DCCI).

Due to construction delays and the lack of supply, rental prices soared 38 per cent in Dubai in 2005 – and 70 per cent in Ajman – the DCCI said. While a rental cap of 15 per cent is now in place in Dubai, cases have emerged of landlords increasing rents by up to double the level.

“The market has been swayed towards an investors’ market, not a buyers’ market. This has resulted in highly inflated real estate prices and poor user/consumer confidence,” the DCCI said.

Property investors say that stabilisation is on the horizon.

“I believe rents will stabilise, they will not keep rising,” Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem, the Chairman of Dubai World, the massive conglomerate that operates the likes of Nakheel and DP World, said this week. “I think the market forces will determine the price. Do not expect drops in rents, but expect the prices to stabilise as 60,000 to 70,000 units become available. These will have an effect on the price.” Whether this will come too late is a question that the DCCI poses in its report.

The DCCI warned that the UAE is facing increasing competition from more competitively priced property markets across the Gulf.

The study said that Gulf countries would attract $80 billion (Dh293.8bn) in real estate investments in the next five years, leading to potential oversupply.

Companies are looking to relocate elsewhere in the GCC – to Qatar, Bahrain or Oman, for instance – in order to escape the escalating cost of rent.

Up to 48 per cent of Dubai companies are considering a move, a Kershaw Leonard study revealed last week.

“This large oversupply of property in the region has in turn led to a stiffening of competitiveness of the UAE real estate market within the Gulf.

“With cheaper property options now being made available within the region much of the long-time expatriate population unable to cope with the inflationary living in the UAE are relocating to other GCC countries,” the DCCI said in its report.


----------



## V Kapoor

Can all this also lead to stalling or delaying of some projects which are due for completion more than one year hence, Krazy. And how will the builders and developers cope with cost escalations.

Will prices of real estate also come down or become stagnant?


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## mc

bankerman, nice work. realistic post.

besides the high buliding material costs eating into developer's margins, another thing worth bringing up imo ud also be - the cost of imports from eruope and asia resultin from dirham strict-pegged to a continously weak and declining dollar. this no doubt keeps contributing in higher pricesr across the board. Dubai's costs get effected , no ? about it.


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## Dubai_Steve

“With cheaper property options now being made available within the region much of the long-time expatriate population unable to cope with the inflationary living in the UAE are relocating to other GCC countries,” the DCCI said in its report.


Does that mean we could actally see a drop in population rather than an increase?


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## shayan

Why do you people think the supply demand rule doesn't count for Dubai? I think people are expecting something like "the big crash" in the USA after the roaring twenties. Well i dont think that will happen. Because Americas problem was a non healty economy. As long as the economy is healty it wont crash. But Dubai has the watch out if its not manipulating economic rules. Like making mega projects on speculation and not on demand. Dubai?s rulers should watch who is buying these apartment and villa'S. If the dont controll that you can get a big problem, for example empty units (something investors dont like) or a money laundering problem in which a tower in nothing more than a game for people with black money to wash it white. This problem was big some years ago in Holland... Keep your eyes open, dont manipulate economic rules and keep the economy healty and the bubble wont burst but will slightly get smaller with a sssssss..... sound lol...


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## DarkBlueBoss

anyone know of any developments with 2 bedroom apt for sale 
i looking for something not less tht 1700 sqft area , and a reasonable price...
and something that is due in comlete within the next couple of years..

please let me know, thanks


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The Dubai Land Department has one of the world's most sophisticated electronic land registers, and compiles accurate and open statistics for the market. 

Until this month the official Dubai real estate market was only open to GCC nationals whose title was registered in the Dubai Land Department. Now the land registry is accepting registrations from non-GCC nationals, although this move has been widely anticipated and nobody buying a property in Dubai thought that they would ever face a problem. 

However, this comes at a time when the first half real estate transaction figures from the Dubai Land Department have shown an 11 per cent fall in the total value of deals done to $2.7 billion, and a 40 per cent fall in the number of buyers to 1,253 this year. 

Annual house prices up 12%

Officials blame rising real estate prices for the decline in transactions. And the Dubai Government's own real estate prices index, which tracks the per square foot value of transactions in 20 Dubai districts, is up by 12 per cent over the past year. 

At the same time investors in off-plan properties report that it is impossible to sell at a premium on many developments, which was a major source of transactions even a year ago. Instead, off-plan buyers now have to wait until completion for any hope of realizing a profit on their investment or must sell at a loss. 

But to have rising house prices while the market is slowing down looks much more like a soft landing than anything like a crash. Indeed, there are reasons to believe that a slowdown in the Dubai real estate sector will be an orderly affair. 

No debt crisis

For one thing the Dubai real estate market has been largely driven by equity investment rather than debt. Property markets generally crash due to pyramids of debt which are vulnerable to price movements. In short, the banks call in their loans and crash the market. 

It is rather different if you are say a Saudi institutional investor with a deep pocket. You can afford to sit and wait with an empty property until buyers come along. You might, of course, decide to discount units to sell them, and not to build any more but this is not likely to be a property crash of the kind seen in the West. 

Besides high inflation levels in Dubai will protect the nominal values of Dubai property, and interest rates are still negative in real terms for those who have borrowed. 

Having freehold registration open for foreigners is a nice sign that the Dubai realty sector is progressing as planned but may not do much to stop the slowdown in progress. However, it is another reason to believe that those expecting a market crash may be disappointed.


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## mc

Higher construction costs and land prices have slowed land sales in Dubai, Gulf News reported. Dubai recorded $2.34bn worth of real estate deals *in H1 2006, 11% less than in H1 2005, according to statistics by the Dubai Land Department. The number of buyers dropped by 40%, from 2,077 in 2005 to 1,253 in 2006. * 

seems mrkt peaked and now it's retracing. typical cycle pattern imo.


----------



## BankerMan

*Rising cost of living dents Dubai's attraction*

Following article appeared in the Financial Times (Deutschland)


*Rising cost of living dents Dubai's attraction*

von William Wallis, Dubai

Many immigrant workers are falling into debt as employers often fail to respond with increased wages.

The rising cost of living associated with Dubai's frenetic development is taking its toll on the hundreds of thousands of expatriates who have made the Gulf city their home. Soaring rent and the increasing cost of imports from Europe and Asia as a result of the dirham currency's peg to the declining US dollar have pushed prices up across the board, eating into the city's cost competitiveness. 

Inflation for the United Arab Emirates is officially running at an annualised 6 per cent. However, economists estimate the figure for Dubai - the fastest growing of the seven emirates that make up the UAE - at between 12 and 20 per cent in the past 12 months. They say the official consumer price index is based on an old model rendered out of date by the city's rapid evolution from entrepôt to tourism, services and financial hub, peopled by growing numbers of immigrants from across the world. 

Businesses have made Dubai a regional base for different reasons, facilitated by the ruling Maktoum family's bid to diversify the economy before limited oil supplies run out. Thanks to their success, demand for housing and commercial office space is now one of the principal drivers of inflation. "It is still the best place in the region to live for many factors but from a pure cost point of view it is becoming less attractive," said Joanna Mollo, regional director of YouGov, the opinion pollsters that carried out a survey on price increases for Dubai-based Gulf News. 

Polling 732 respondents from a mix of mostly immigrant communities in the UAE, the survey found average price rises of 20 to 30 per cent for accommodation (27 per cent), foodstuffs (20 per cent), healthcare (18 per cent), education (20 per cent) and transportation (25 per cent). About 20 per cent of respondents said their rent had more than doubled, in spite of a 15 per cent cap announced by the authorities. The survey found nearly half the respondents were breaking even or falling into debt, with employers mostly failing to respond with increased wages. Forty-four per cent were considering moving to cheaper or shared accommodation and 23 per cent were sending their families away. 

Mrs Mollo said those in lower-paid jobs were worst affected, increasing an "unsettling social divide". "You can't save as much money any more, so their reason for being here is going away," she said. Lower-paid immigrants work long hours and often seven-day weeks to send money home. 

Steve Brice, regional head of research at Standard Chartered Bank, said concerns were growing that inflation was eroding Dubai's competitiveness as the regional base for business. However, he said foreign direct investment was still nearly 13 per cent of Dubai's gross domestic product. Prices would begin to stabilise as the many housing developments under construction came on stream towards the end of the year. 

Some real estate developers have also been hit by the rising cost of building materials eating into margins.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai ‘property frenzy’ is set to continue * 

Dubai’s ‘current real estate frenzy’, is likely to continue in the short term at least, the Kuwaiti investment company Global Investment House has concluded. 
Its UAE Real Estate Sector: The land of bulding opportuinities report cites a number of reasons, including the growing number of expatriates moving to Dubai, high rental yields, continued speculation, ‘and most important of all the recent announcement of the foreigners’ freehold property ownership’.

Prices in Dubai real estate have witnessed dramatic increases over the past couple of years, according to the report. The ‘Springs’, which initially launched units selling at £66,700 in August 2002, has been recently selling at £90,400, representing an increase of more than 35 per cent. ‘Jumeirah Islands’ villas have increased by 20 per cent during 2005, and ‘Dubai Marina’ prices have increased by more than 50 per cent over the past two years. 

However, while villas should continue to command high prices, there is concern that when the majority of high end apartment projects currently under construction are completed within the next two to three years there could be an oversupply of such accommodation which will affect prices.

Meanwhile, given the huge demand in the leasehold market and because buying is not always a feasible option, rents are not likely to come down in the short term, especially at the lower end and middle market.

Rentals have increased by 40 to 50 per cent over the last few years in Dubai. In Sheikh Zayed Road, annual rents for a one bedroom apartment were within a range of £5,600 to £7,400 in 2004 and are now in the range of £8,200 to £9,700. Similarly, annual rents for a two bedroom apartment were within a range of £8,200 to £11,100 and now are within a range of £11,100 to £12,600. Rental Yields for property in Dubai ranges from 7 to 10 per cent, with residential yields at the lower end and retail yields at the higher end.

‘However, we do not expect rents to appreciate at the same previous high levels giving the recent 15 per cent ceiling imposed by the government on rental increases’, said the firm.

Unlike Dubai, the Abu Dhabi residential market had remained slow in the past due, said the report, to the Government’s enforced restrictions on sale of properties. But a 2003 change in approach has triggering activity in the market. 

Meanwhile market conditions have also changed in the northern emirates of the UAE, especially Sharjah and Ras Al Khaimah where growing investor interest has been witnessed. ‘The expansion of business to the northern emirates has been supported by announcements of projects in Sharjah, Emaar’s entry in Umm Al Quwain, private sector developments in Ajman and the government initiatives in Ras Al Khaimah, which has recently opened up both its residential and commercial real estate sectors to private investment, and announced its own foreigners’ property ownership law. 

‘Going forward, we expect these emirates to continue to offer good value proposition for investments considering the relatively low entry price. However, in terms of the scale and the number of developments, opportunities would fade in comparison to those in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. We see a steady evolution of these emirates into higher levels of activity, but there are no signals pointing to a shift of activity from the bigger emirates’.

The UAE is constantly developing, growing, and opening up, said Global Investment House. Restrictions on foreign investment in the country are getting progressively relaxed with the expansions of free zones. Although, the law of commercial agencies by which UAE firms have exclusive distribution rights of foreign brands within most of the emirates, is still applicable in the country. The country has been recently discussing amendments to the law in order to comply with WTO regulations which require that foreigners should be permitted to compete with UAE nationals as agents. The country is also expected to raise the current 49 per cent ceiling on the stake that foreign companies can acquire in domestic companies. 

The change in laws on foreign ownership of real estate in emirates like Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Sharjah, and Ras Al Khaimah also signals the intent towards reaching the stage of being seamlessly integrated with the global economy. In Abu Dhabi, expatriates can now own surface property, but not the land within designated investment areas on a 99-year lease basis.

‘These anticipated regulatory changes help in developing the country into an attractive destination for doing business’. 

Major developments to be delivered in the next few years in Dubai

Currently, villas account for approximately 40 to 50 per cent of the total residential property in Dubai. This will change in due course, as majority of projects to be delivered in 2006-2009 are apartment buildings.


----------



## Krazy

*Key players target short-term rentals*

Property and real estate companies are eyeing the shortterm rental segment in the emirate, thanks to the increase in the number of travellers to Dubai during the summer months and the low availability of hotel rooms.

While Better Homes recently launched its Short Term Rentals (STR) division, some other players, such as Asteco, are also targeting the segment.

Wilson Saldhana, a property consultant with Asteco, said the STR segment accounts for 60 to 70 per cent of the total property market in Dubai.

“However, this scenario might change after the Dubai Summer Surprises period ends. Right now, there is a huge demand for short-term accommodation on rent.” Better Homes said the demand for STR offerings in Dubai has increased 10-fold in the past eight months. The consultant has seen its STR service grow by 400 per cent over this period.

However, although Better Homes is focused on furnished apartments as well as hotels for STR, Asteco is looking at setting up a division to deal with hotels only.

Asteco’s head of leasing, Vivek Kumar, explained the reason. “The STR offering is preferred more by business travellers than visiting fami lies. A lot of people come to Dubai for jobs or to set up their companies and they prefer staying in hotels on a shortterm basis, rather than in furnished apartments,” he said.

On the other hand, Better Homes’ managing director, Ryan Mahoney, is of the view that this segment is still in its “infancy”. While there is a demand for STR products, people in Dubai hesitate to rent out their apartments for short periods, said Mahoney.

“About 95 per cent of our tenants still do not want to consider short-term rentals,” he said, adding that Better Homes manages about 50 units in this segment. The STR business now accounts for about 10 per cent of Better Homes’ total revenues.

Better Homes’ STR manager, Amina Harris, said STR hotspots include areas that provide easy access to Sheikh Zayed Road – such as The Greens or Dubai Marina.


----------



## DarkBlueBoss

DarkBlueBoss said:


> anyone know of any developments with 2 bedroom apt for sale
> i looking for something not less tht 1700 sqft area , and a reasonable price...
> and something that is due in comlete within the next couple of years..
> 
> please let me know, thanks


anyone ????


----------



## Salty

DarkBlueBoss said:


> anyone ????


One of the road facing Shoreline Apartments on the Palm Jumeirah? They will be beautiful apartments, they're at a very exclusive address, they're yards from the beach or Golden Mile, they give you access to a private gym and beach club on the Palm, and they are very competitively priced for what they are (take a look at the Better Homes website for instance). In 2 or 3 years when the Trunk of the Palm is in a much more finished state I think these apartments will cost a hell of a lot more than they do now.

Nakheel are starting to hand over keys to Shoreline owners from the beginning of December this year (so they say). Anyway, delivery is relatively imminent.

Don't take my word for it though. Might just be wishful thinking on my part (we own a canal facer in a Shoreline building). Just a suggestion for you to think about.


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## DarkBlueBoss

thanks, i'll check it out and see, however, i doubt that they are reasonably prices since they are on the palm island


----------



## Krazy

*Rents in Dubai up despite expectations*

Estate agents in Dubai believe that rents of residential properties have continued to rise this year despite speculation of a downturn.

Jasmine Ferrer, a property sales consultant for Arabian Homes Real Estate, said: “Rents do vary depending on the location, but on a broad scale, most properties have seen an increase. A two bedroom apartment at one of the residential complexes used to go for Dh75,000 last year and it is now being rented to new tenants for Dh105,000.” She added: “New properties will set their rates based on current market prices and since not too many properties are entering the market until 2007, the demand is still high and people can expect that prices will not fall.” A large number of tenants who rented property last year have seen an increase that in most cases complies with the 15 per cent rent increase cap set by the Dubai government.

James Grumley from Alpha Properties shares the same perspective on the situation.

He said: “Let me put it this way; a residence at one of the development centres that used to go for Dh90,000 in December 2005 is now being rented for Dh150,000, but people are still very keen on taking it.” Grumley believes that as the number of expatriates com ing to reside in Dubai continues to rise, the demand will remain high.

He added: “A large number of people are also offered packages by their employers and most of those companies tend to cover the rents.” Commercial properties have also been affected by the rising demand that continues to cater to an influx of international companies keen to secure a location and compete in the business hub of the region.

Omar Al Obaidi, office manager for Pacific Real Estate, said: “In general, any rent property has seen the 15 per cent increase, but with a demand that does not match the supply we have seen commercial property prices increase by a [large] margin.

“An office space that used to be rented for Dh100,000, is now being rented for Dh160,000.”


----------



## True Blue

dubaiflo said:


> Soooo guys.
> 
> finally things have been settled and we are buying another apartment in Dubai.
> 
> AED 2.000.000 +/- range.
> 
> 
> what do u think?
> 
> i am focussed on Shoreline apartments at the moment.


Yeah! I can't disagree with anything Salty said however capital outlay is not likely to be your only substantial expense. I am guessing in years to come maintenance and DEWA charges for PJ are going to escalate  in line with the address kudos (sky high).


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ thanks salty and true blue.

no i think sea facing should be better, burj al arab view.

on the other hand, high floor canal facing is suerly ok.. but only 8th F +.

yes we have been looking into F type as well, best layout and position no doubt.

will see what is available... 

if we won't find anything, i guess burj dubai complex or CoA are the next choices.


----------



## Krazy

flo i feel canal facing will have real good views... sea facing will just give you view of the water... i dont know .. it's nice but i'd personally like to have views of a lot more than just water... and look at the renders for trump tower.. the canal looks awesome


----------



## dubaiflo

since when do you judge from renders  especially if they were released from Nakheel 

anyway in the end it is a matter of taste, and also availability.

remember i doubt we are going to use the apartment, probably rent it or sell it once a major part of PJ is done.


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## Krazy

^^ I've always said that PJ is the only good project coming out of Nakheel... a lot of delays and I wouldn't count on the quality... but overall it's a great project


----------



## vin.vinay

Hye property pundits, wht an insight............

Whats wrong with International City............Especially if one may want to live there and dont have monies like 1.5 M and above.


----------



## mission

Vin

There is nothing wrong with International City. I think its good for Dubai


----------



## Krazy

*Waterfront living can also have a spin-off for nature*

One of the most interesting trends in the UAE’s booming property segment is waterfront development. Over the years, waterfront living has emerged as a popular choice for investors who prefer the tranquillity of a home that overlooks the sea and at the same time offers picturesque views while being away from the hustle and bustle of city life.

Other than the obvious lifestyle benefits associated with waterfront projects, these properties also command a potentially larger capital gain when compared to an equivalent investment on a nonwaterfront development.

Also being relatively scarce, waterfront properties automatically attract higher rental prices. A lucrative option is to invest and lease – be it a short-term rental or timeshare. In such cases, rents take on a whole new dimension.

As with everything else, if there are pros there will be cons. For waterfront homeowners, the main concern is the high home maintenance, especially electronic appli ances, wooden surfaces, painted finishes, gardens and, yes, cars too. The culprit here is the salt in the air which cannot be avoided.

For developers, the main challenge is to ensure that the development’s design allows for current flows, removal of sediment and also adequate mechanics to control the impact of sea tides and sedimentation.

Questions have often been raised on the damage to marine life and sewage disposal systems. However, welldesigned islands and waterfront properties have minimal, if any, negative impact on surroundings. In fact, if projects are designed with a genuine concern for the natural environment, they could have a positive outcome.

For example, the creation of artificial reefs gives rise to nurseries for marine life to develop. Waste, sewerage or leaching into soil can be managed by various methods – all of which ensure the effluents do not reach the sea.

The UAE is home to several waterfront projects such as the Saadiyat Island and Al Raha development in Abu Dhabi, Mina Al Arab in Umm Al Quwain, The Cove and Saraya Islands in Ras Al Khaimah and of course, The Palms, The World and Dubai Marina in Dubai. The above are only some examples of carefully planned developments coming on board.

If we broaden the picture and compare the UAE against the rest of the world, it is safe to say that the country will house the most ambitious range of manmade islands in the world – certainly the biggest in design and offerings. No country can compare with this scale!


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ where the heck did u get this article ... :sleepy:


----------



## mission

Does anyone know how the market is going at the mo?


----------



## carpetking

check your email mission


----------



## greenbage

Hi Guys,

Can someone please let me know how much money would you get for the smallest 1 bed in diamond 2 to rent it for the year ?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## V Kapoor

see gulf news Classifieds!
60-70K maybe.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai rents and house prices up again!*

Even the most cursory glance at the property sections of a local newspaper reveals that both rents and house prices in Dubai have gone up again at the start of the autumn season. Completed property is at a premium with construction delays hampering the supply chain and new expatriate arrivals growing by the day.

Taking a reality check in the Dubai real estate sector means a review of the columns of local papers to discover how rentals and property prices have been moving. 

The start of September adverts reveals a firming of both rentals and property prices for completed homes. Only in the off-plan market are a few 'distressed' sales in evidence, perhaps a harbinger of future 'distressed' sales of completed property in the future but no consolation to somebody looking to rent or buy today. 

Let us review how some benchmark properties stand up. The standard one-bedroom apartment in The Greens was Dhs820,000 in early summer, now the price is up by Dhs100,000. Rent for the same property is up from Dhs85,000 to Dhs90,000 plus. 

Villas are harder to judge because there are now so few on the market and they move very fast. But with a check book handy a five-bedroom Meadows villa that sold for Dhs3.5 million earlier this summer might command Dhs4.2 million, though the rental is unchanged at around Dhs220,000. 

*Upward momentum*

Thus the Dubai property market is still moving upwards, and inflating living costs and more than outpacing the fall of the US dollar to which the UAE dirham is pegged. 

Those deciding whether to rent or buy are caught in the classic top-of-the-cycle trap. Do they rent and take the risk that prices go yet higher before an inevitable correction? Or do they buy now and take the risk that the all too evident massive supply under construction suddenly undermines the marketplace? 

The obvious delays in delivering finished product should allay fears on the last score. One person's construction delay is another person's price increase. And in the short term the shortage of supply of completed property at a peak time of demand - with the influx of new post-summer expatriates - leaves predictions a no-brainer. 

*Is Dubai still cheap?*

But how much higher could house prices go? Could that Greens one-bedroom flat become worth $700,000 as it would be in London SW1? Or will it stay closer to the $250,000 level? 

It has to be said that with Dubai white-collar salaries now on the way up and tax-free take home pay not so far short of London that you have to wonder why property prices are so low by comparison. 

On the other hand, London has just been officially named as the most expensive place in the world for residential property, a title that usually precedes a big fall in valuations. Could it be that London property on the way down will be overtaken by Dubai on the way up? Unlikely but who can say what the future holds?


----------



## Krazy

*Doubts linger in property market*

Dubai: Potential investors in Dubai real estate claim the market is still plagued by numerous grey areas despite recent additions to laws governing the sector.

Big questions remain over property inheritance, compensation for late delivery of units, the definition of freehold, and maintenance of common hold areas, they say.

According to property analysts, Dubai's rulers added confidence to the market by officially declaring the freehold zones and granting non-UAE nationals the right to register plots in their name.

However, legal specialists say several other areas need clarification.

"From a legal perspective things are looking up for non-nationals," said Alexis Waller, at legal specialists Clyde&Co. "The property law was a very positive step forward in terms of legislation, but there are still areas where we need more regulation."

Speakers at a recent meeting of the Indian Business and Professional Council identified inheritance arrangements as a key issue needing clarification, especially whether laws of an individual's home country will apply upon death.

Addressing the conference, Waller said: "The position of the civil code is that the law of the expatriate will apply for inheritance matters, but there is an exception to that rule. When you have properties situated in Dubai which are disposed of by will, local law or Sharia law will apply, and yet expats can opt out. This discrepancy needs to be clarified."

However, the most pressing concern for the property market is whether penalties should be enforced for late delivery of properties to consumers, according to Sudhir Kumar, executive for the property division of Dubai-based Morison Consulting.

"Regulation on penalties should be introduced before the condo law and before escrow accounts are introduced. There are a lot of delays in delivery and it is affecting consumer confidence," he said.

Doubt also remains over entitlements to owners of freehold land. Many expatriates living in Dubai think freehold title grants them unrestricted ownership of a plot. But legal experts say owners are subject to various restrictions, including requiring consent before selling or sub-letting the property.

_New measures_

- Areas of freehold ownership for non-UAE residents have been declared by the Dubai Land Department and include all major projects by Nakheel, Dubai Properties and Emaar.

- A condominium law establishing responsibility of common hold areas and formation of owners' associations will be passed this year.

- Dubai Land Department is also considering establishing an escrow account system where investors' down payments are held by independent bodies.


----------



## Krazy

*Dubai needs more office space*

Dubai: The amount of commercial space in Dubai must be doubled to meet future demand levels, according to a company linked to a newly-launched office development.

Recent focus on the freehold residential sector has seen the supply of offices and other commercial units dwindle below the required 80:20 ratio of home to commercial space, said Harshit Kantaria, managing director of Aspire Real Estate, the company marketing and selling a new three-tower complex in Dubai. "The cycle of development has created an acute shortage of commercial space in Dubai," he said.

Kantaria was speaking at yesterday's launch of Jumeirah Wave Business Towers in Jumeirah Village South (JVS). The Dh1 billion development will bring 960 office units onto the market and space for 48 shops on the ground and mezzanine floors.

Designed by Dubai-based architect and design firm Dimensions, the 45-storey project will begin later this year and is set for completion in December 2008. Construction contracts will go to tender at the end of the month.

The 1.2 million square feet of office space will help meet a current commercial space shortage in Dubai of nine million square feet, according to Faisal Ali Mousa, owner of project developers High Rise Real Estate.

Ali Mousa said the lack of supply was revealed by a strong sales response to the first tower, with a variety of international investors taking units. According to Aspire, the second tower will be aimed at the UK market.

Officials at High Rise Real Estate denied Business Bay would have been a better area to locate the complex, claiming the proximity of JVS to major highways, planned metro routes and wealthy residential zones such as The Springs and The Greens will attract investors.

However, one glitch on the horizon could be the project's name, which might be slightly altered if the Jumeirah hotel group raises objections over branding.

High Rise Real Estate boasts an overall investment portfolio of Dh7 billion, including the recently-launched Rotating Tower. Ali Mousa said the company will launch real estate developments worth Dh20 billion throughout the UAE before the end of the year.


----------



## HarryKane

*delete*

delete


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## BankerMan

*Buy to live or to rent?*

Buy to live or to rent?
Author: Tessa Morris Tuesday, September 05, 2006 at 18:19 

So you’ve finally bought yourself a nice pad in Dubai’s booming property landscape – what do you do with it? Stupid question – you’re obviously going to do it up and live in it, right? Well, if you are prone to some financial juggling, that might not be the right answer. The option of renting out your property, while you yourself continue to live in another rented place may not be such a far-fetched idea, considering the high rates that new properties entering the rental market are commanding. 

“If you are well settled in an apartment or villa for a number of years and are happy there, why not consider renting out your newly acquired property,” says Shaun Corrigan, Sales Manager of DSL Exhibitions, who are organizing the 3rd edition of the Resale and Rental Property Show (The R&R Show) on the 8th and 9th September 2006 at Dubai’s Crowne Plaza Hotel. “Typically, if you are half lucky, you will be able to retain your existing property at a low price while your new property could fetch a higher price on the rental market,” he adds. “Then again, it is mostly a personal decision and we all know that sometimes emotions take precedence over practicality.”

Take Ahmed Abdul Hadi, an Egyptian businessman who lives and works on Deira’s Rigga Road. “I have lived in my existing apartment for the last eight years and my children have grown up here,” says Hadi. “I took possession of my villa in the Springs two years’ back and have rented it out for a price of AED 120,000 since then.” Although Hadi had initially bought his home to live in, he changed his mind for two reasons: money and convenience. “My office is on Rigga Road and my current flat is just a stone’s throw from it,” explains Hadi. “Besides, I pay AED 90,000 for my four bedroom flat – it is huge and comfortable - so I am able to save some money as well. Although my villa in Springs also has four bedrooms, the living space is less.”

Terry Booker, a British National who works in Dubai Media City, however moved to her apartment in the Greens from a villa in Mirdiff – for the same reasons. “The morning traffic coming to New Dubai is murder,” she grimaces. “I simply had to find a solution, so I looked around and chose my current apartment in the Greens.” In a reversal of fortunes, Terry is now joining another company at the Dubai Airport Free Zone. “I will now rent out my apartment and use that money to rent myself another villa, back in Mirdiff,” she adds. “Besides, my dogs need the open space that comes with a villa, but I will miss my apartment, which I did up with such love and attention.” There is, however, an upside to this – Terry’s apartment will now command a higher price as it will enter the market as a furnished property.

In both cases cited above, location of bought properties has played a key role in the decision to live in or rent the home. There are cases, however, of people renting out their owned properties for financial reasons alone. Alton Makisa, a Russian in the trading business has been living in a rented apartment on Sheikh Zayed Road’s Defence Roundabout for the last 12 years and owns three properties he has rented out. “This is an older building where hygiene is not taken very seriously and there are other drawbacks – such as having only a single bathroom for a two bedroom apartment – but I spent nearly AED 40,000 doing up this flat, so it is quite comfortable now.” Alton pays AED 42,000 for his rented apartment while he makes nearly AED 250,000 from the three properties that he has rented out. “I bought these properties as a business decision and I do not plan to live in them.” 

So if you’ve bought yourself a new flat or villa, consider exploring the rental market before moving in – you just might be able to create a nice recurring income from it – unless, of course, you wife insists!


----------



## Krazy

The Resale and Rental Property Show takes place this Friday and Saturday at Crowne Plaza

website: www.dsl.ae

For those interested in selling or renting their properties, this looks like a great event


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## Dubai_Steve

^^ Seriously considering it


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## Dubai_Steve

Come on Krazy give me your best guess for the fun of it.. How much will a 2 bed on the top floor rent for on a 6 month contract on completion ?


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## Krazy

a 2 bedroom in dubai marina with good views right now goes for about 120-140K dhs per year if you're lucky to find someone whoz willing to pay that much... so being really optimistic and not realistic, I would say the rent would rise to about 160-190K per year.. for a more realistic figure I would say close to 145-150k Dhs per year.

I would seriously suggest to you to consider type 3 (2 bedroom, 1496 sq ft) in Delphine Tower of Marina Promenade. Cheaper than BC and great views of the entire stretch of the marina (wall to wall glass through the marina facing wall... check the location of Delphine - it's the shortest and leftmost tower in MP) ... Already topped out and ready in Jan 2008.










this one even has a "breakfast" room that u cud easily use as another bedroom thus making it a 3 bedroom apt... also check the services offered in this complex.. includes facilities like guest hosting and squash courts along with a ton of others... not really 5 star complex but neverthaless it has a lot to offer.


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## Morrismarina

Many thanks guys...I've just go to pay for it now !!! Thanks for all your thoughts/contributions etc on this forum.
I purchased on 16th floor for a few reasons......was looking at 8th as recommended to go low down but I know Flo thought around 20th was best. Mall is opposite so thought about 16th was right to give a reasonable view of Jemeriah Lakes and also not to feel sort of isolated by going too far up. The 16 floor seemed a good compromise. (And I don't like odd numbers !!) 
I'm paying 1281 per sq ft after 2.5% discount - Yes it does seem a bit pricey but I compared it with The Point a similar one bed but 12th floor (they did not do a marina facing any higher) came in at 1198 (after 1.5% discount). BC equates to 7% more expensive but say 6% as I'm 4 floors higher. Also Point was launched about 6 months ago.
I think the extra price differential is justified given the location, right in the very centre of Marina and the hotel complex will help in my view as I'm looking for holiday lets. (Though may rent long term for a year to give time for some bookings to get going).
The other major factor is the 15 year payment plan, it was not an option with The Point and I had to go non-status as my personal UK income is not that great. The Promenade is a great development in my view and 95% mortgages are available with Amrak but they would not consider me as I don't live and work in Dubai. And if they saw my UK mortgage they'd lend me just enough for a taxi to Diera.
So there was only DubaiSelect who I could get any finance with. Having said that I do really like the towers and layout of the apartment, nice sized balcony, powder room etc.


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## Dubai_Steve

Well at 190k per year (remember this is a 5* chain so optimistic is taken). That equals a rental yield of 13% rather than 16%. Still not bad.


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## Dubai_Steve

Morris, what are your thoughts on competing with JBR for holiday lets in BC ?


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## Dubai_Steve

Krazy, have same problem as Morris - will not be considered for Dubai mortgage - have to go non status but agree Delphine is very nice.


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## dubaiflo

i read your posts now steve and samir.

rather interesting.
it is so hard to project.

i still have a feeling that anything which is hotel or seriviced apartments will be quite different to normal apartments if you want to rent out.

i guess a lot of people especially in the marina will appreciate these services.

around 140k for a 2bed top floor is guarenteed imo.


JBR won't be much difference to BC if you do it reasonable. the big advante is beach access as u all know.



Morrismarina said:


> I purchased on 16th floor for a few reasons......was looking at 8th as recommended to go low down but I know Flo thought around 20th was best. Mall is opposite so thought about 16th was right to give a reasonable view of Jemeriah Lakes and also not to feel sort of isolated by going too far up. The 16 floor seemed a good compromise. (And I don't like odd numbers !!)


i think 16th floor is about prefect for BC.

i mean, you do not need to overlooks sth, you will get a decent JLT view and on the other hand you will still be able to see people and boats down in the marina.

we bought 14th floor in MS to make sure you get a palm and sea view but still enjoy the lively community down there.


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## Krazy

good point Steve ... barclay doesnt finance emaar projects as far as I know. Hmm... taking that point into consideration, you're left with very few choices.. and DS does seem appealing then.


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## Morrismarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> Morris, what are your thoughts on competing with JBR for holiday lets in BC ?


Difficult one to be honest, JBR have presumably use of the beach which is a big plus, but other than that I can't see they have any other advantage over BC. Sea view I suppose, but Marina view is still as good IMO. I'm no expert but I reckon the holiday market depends entirely on the marketing quality and a photo of the West Tower next to the Central Tower with a big "Marriot Hotel" sign on it (purely speculation of course) will go a big way to get your holiday bookings. Even to the most sceptical it's surely got to help.
Another factor for me is I like DS they have been a great outfit to deal with so far and I'm 100% confident they can deliver on time and with good quality apartments. 
Having said that, I really like The Promenade and I think Krazy is right to purchase there. This two bed look really nice indeed and will convert to a three bed easily. Also ready in 12 months BUT a non-starter if you need non-status finance.


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## Dubai_Steve

Thanks for your 140k guess flo, puts the yield somewhere between 10% guaranteed and 16% DS projected then.

I am not so sure that the BC residential towers will have any special hotel style services. Only the central tower is serviced apartments. Promenade has more facilities, squash courts etc.

I think you will still be able to access the beach quite easily from BC since it is so very close to Al fattan.


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## dubaiflo

^^ but not for free and i tell u again, even the beach clubs of the hotels which are freakin expensive to get membership have at least 1 year waiting list...

that won't be better if 50000 people live in the marina..


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## Morrismarina

Another factor in my decision to buy was the exchange rate. I've fixed my 30% down payment today at 6.88/UK£ which is a very good rate. (Used Moneycorp). Three years ago we were well under 6 AED/£ so again this makes BC price look better.


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## Dubai_Steve

dubaiflo said:


> ^^ but not for free and i tell u again, even the beach clubs of the hotels which are freakin expensive to get membership have at least 1 year waiting list...
> 
> that won't be better if 50000 people live in the marina..


Yes but surely you can just slip down the side of Al Fattan and walk on the public beach front without using the clubs.


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## Krazy

I didnt know you had financing issues with Amlak n co Steve... taking that into consideration, I think you shouldn't hesitate and go for the 15 year plan in BC... But then again it's your decision at the end and we are here only to advice (remember we are just some random people on the internet  )


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## dubaiflo

^^ with me being 18 years old :runaway:

that public beach will be crowded steve.. and if at all public forever .. who knows.

valueable land.. 
on the other hand u can surely promote the apartment with beach access..


----------



## Morrismarina

I've calculated that on my one bed I need around 110,00 AED per annum to break even. If I can get this I'd be very happy especially as in my break even figure I've included the fact that 70% of my payments are on a 15 year capital repayment basis. The other 30% I've raised on my UK mortgage on an interest only basis and included in my break even figure. So in 15 years time all I'll have left is the £43,000 I've raised, which although still outstanding, with inflation will be small change. 
If BC is your only option Steve from a raising finance requirement, then I'd say go for it. It's that or nothing, which doesn't make it right of course, but it is a great development. I'm sure you won't be dissappointed. As you've said prices will be 7% higher next year so with your discount you're 10% up in a short time.


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## Dubai_Steve

Makes me wonder what happened to all the other banks lending on all properties in Dubai now that freehold law is passed ?

I think BC is attractive because of this and as you say can be advertised with beach access and the photo will have a big name hotel (eg. Marriot or Hilton etc.) sign on the tower.


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## Krazy

^^ Don't you own another property in Marina?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Morrismarina said:


> If BC is your only option Steve from a raising finance requirement, then I'd say go for it. It's that or nothing, which doesn't make it right of course, but it is a great development.


Yes this is my only option in Dubai, but am considering other locations first. In the UK you can buy any property with only 10% deposit non status which means if prices rise 50% in the UK I will get twice as much capital gain as if prices rise by 100% in Dubai.


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## Dubai_Steve

mission you should get about a 16% yield or in other words get your money back in less than 6 years.


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## mission

I bloody hope so!!!

2008 completion is annoying me though. It will be 3 years without a penny of rental return. Plus i hate it when Krazy is right :| 

A year late thats not good. I wonder if Abraj will pay my first years rental return


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## mission

Does anyone know if i can use the equity in my TP apartment and purchase another one?

Do you think this will make good sense?


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## Dubai_Steve

Not until completion I would say


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## dubaiflo

first it is only two years until 2008, 2nd, they won't pay you compensation but offer you to buy your apartment back at original price + interest which you will refuse because you would miss a 20% premium


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## Imre

today rent prices e.g...:

Dubai Marina

Al Majara 1 B/r 125.000
Horizon Tower 4 B/r 165.000-180.000
Murjan 1 B/r 125.000
Waves Tower A 1 b/r 90.000 , 2 b/r 140.000
Trident Waterfront 2 b/r 140.000 , 3 b/r 180.000
Al Anbar 3 b/r 310.000
Marina Diamond 2 2 b/r 120.000 studio 10000/month

Burj Dubai , Residences

1 b/r 85.000-130.000
2 b/r 125.000-190.000
3 b/r 180.000-220.000


Greens 

1 b/r 80.000-100.000
2 b/r 120.000-125.000

Al Barsha
1 b/r +study 85000-90.000
2 b/r +maid 120.000-125.000

source : Gulf News and AlBABWorld


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## Krazy

al majara 125K???/ no wonder we dont see any lights on in these towers at night... i guess marina walk really hiked the rents


----------



## Imre

and I also saw Marina Terrace 2 or 3 levels penthouse for 650.000/year


----------



## Morrismarina

Imre said:


> today rent prices e.g...:
> 
> Dubai Marina
> 
> Al Majara 1 B/r 125.000
> Horizon Tower 4 B/r 165.000-180.000
> Murjan 1 B/r 125.000
> Waves Tower A 1 b/r 90.000 , 2 b/r 140.000
> Trident Waterfront 2 b/r 140.000 , 3 b/r 180.000
> Al Anbar 3 b/r 310.000
> Marina Diamond 2 2 b/r 120.000 studio 10000/month
> 
> Many thanks for the info Imre that's great. Which of these marina developments would roughly equate to Bay Central in your opinion ??
> 
> Yez Plez - my BC apartment is 1601. Regarding my break even calculation it was a little higher than yours as my place is costing 988k AED. It was not done with complete precision to be honest as exchange rates will move and I was costing in the £43k deposit I've raised on my UK equity at 6.8 AED/£ which will vary tremendously no doubt over next few years. But I reckon on a rough calculation AED 105,000 and I'm covered. Included the maintenace charge but you've reminded me forgot to include agent's commission.


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## Morrismarina

Regarding comments about apartment size and rental income. Does the size really matter ??? I can see a one bed being rented to a single person or couple, unlikely to be a family. Would they really be that bothered as to whether it's 750 sq ft or 1,000 sq ft. There'll only be one or perhaps two persons living in it. :? 
(I can see a two or three bed having some variance on rental income as the renters will probably be families and extra space useful).


----------



## Krazy

Morrismarina said:


> Regarding comments about apartment size and rental income. Does the size really matter ??? I can see a one bed being rented to a single person or couple, unlikely to be a family. Would they really be that bothered as to whether it's 750 sq ft or 1,000 sq ft. There'll only be one or perhaps two persons living in it. :?
> (I can see a two or three bed having some variance on rental income as the renters will probably be families and extra space useful).



Yes it does matter... one who can afford a higher rent wud prefer a more spacious apartment if he had the choice.. simple as that.


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## Imre

I think , could be similar as Waves .. I would say now 1 B/r 90-100k


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## Imre

price depends on the View,location, level, size...


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## HarryKane

Dubai_Steve said:


> mission you should get about a 16% yield or in other words get your money back in less than 6 years.


How do you figure?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^

80,000 rent / 484,000 purchase price = 16.5%

484,000 / 80,000 = 6 years (assuming inflation covering running costs)


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Will be interesting to see what happens to rents. A yield as high as 16% usually means that prices will double easily. 

Interesting to see that DS are also specifying 16% that much later for BC, reason being they are projecting a much higher rental because of location + 5* hotel I expect. But then again this is only their word, worst case is 10% for BC which still represents very good capital gain potential.

Only when you hit 6% rental yields should you be worried about capital gain.


----------



## mission

To be honest 

As long as i get 65000dr a year i am not to bothered.
Where is the cheapest place now to buy in the marina


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^
> 
> 80,000 rent / 484,000 purchase price = 16.5%
> 
> 484,000 / 80,000 = 6 years (assuming inflation covering running costs)



MD2 1 B/r - B type (small) Original price 400.000(fully furnished and full kitchen) /80.000 = 5 years
this is not bad


----------



## Imre

mission said:


> To be honest
> 
> As long as i get 65000dr a year i am not to bothered.
> Where is the cheapest place now to buy in the marina


I found this :

DEC Towers 1 bed 692.250
Manchester Tower Studio 431 562
MD1 studio 565.000 , 600.000
MD4 1 bed 610.000
MD5 1 bed 581.196 , 634.956
MD6 1 bed 610.831 , 635.000
MD1 studio 565.000 , 600.000
Marina Pearl studio 592.000


----------



## carpetking

Does anyone know how much the cheapest apartment in TIMEPLACE
with a good Marina view is ?? (1 Bedroom) i am asking for a friend


----------



## jagban

Which is the best place in Dubai to invest now? 
Is best to buy in already developed areas like Marina or is it best to go for off-plan appartmnents in Sports City?
I am looking for a 1 bed/ 2 bed appartment. There are so many advertised it is very confusing?

Any advise would be much appreciated?


----------



## HarryKane

Dubai_Steve said:


> 80,000 rent / 484,000 purchase price = 16.5%
> 484,000 / 80,000 = 6 years (assuming inflation covering running costs)


Too many assumptions. Yes, if that is the actual rent over the whole period, the return is correct in regards to the O.P. However, its almost guaranteed that the rent will certainly fluctuate, and where it goes is anyone's guess. Furthermore, IMO, comparing the return to the O.P. is not accurate. The worth of that property is certainly more than the O.P. Therefore, you should be comparing the return to its current worth, since, obviously, you could cash in that property at any time. Also, you have not considered that the property is not generating any return at the moment while your equity is being tied up for years. And finally, you also assume that the property will be fully occupied, when in reality, nobody knows what the rental market will be like over such a long period, especially in a relatively, volatile region.


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## Dubai_Steve

Yield calculations should always be done on the original purchase price.

Yes you need to add the construction time to the number of years to pay off the mortgage.

Do not think rents will be less than now on average over the next 10 years due to inflation.


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## Morrismarina

HarryKane said:


> nobody knows what the rental market will be like over such a long period, especially in a relatively, volatile region.


I agree the accepted practice is always to calculate the rental yield using the current property value. (Whenever reports talk about yield in different countries or cities they always use the current value).

I was not aware that the UAE was a volatile region :?


----------



## mission

Morris 

I think he means Iraq/Iran/Afgan


----------



## mission

If you had 1 million dirhams to spend on a property in Dubai where would you invest?


----------



## Naz UK

Erm...i'd buy a 1-bed sea-facing apartment on the 73rd floor of the Torch.


----------



## HarryKane

Dubai_Steve said:


> Yield calculations should always be done on the original purchase price.


No, not really, especially when you're comparing different investment vehicles. That property has a current value, which if liquidated, would yield a different return in another potential investment. That is what you should consider and compare.




Dubai_Steve said:


> Do not think rents will be less than now on average over the next 10 years due to inflation.


Frankly, I wouldn't believe anyone who gave me a definite answer to this question, especially in this part of the world.


----------



## HarryKane

Morrismarina said:


> I was not aware that the UAE was a volatile region :?


My perception is that the UAE itself is stable, but it is probably part of a larger volatile region, and thus, prone to being unstable as a side effect. For example, reports have it that the US is using the UAE as a base for spying on Iran. Do you think that the Iranians will take this kindly? Again, those reports could be baloney. But, having a nearby nuclear reactor in Uncle Sam's radar can't be taken lightly.


----------



## HarryKane

Naz UK said:


> Erm...i'd buy a 1-bed sea-facing apartment on the 73rd floor of the Torch.


While you're at it, why don't you give the exact apartment number?


----------



## Yez_Plz

Rightly or wrongly i've still goy itchy feet on BC...especially now the 'volatile region' subject has come up (although this had lurked at the back of my mind and that's where i left it until someone brought it up here).

With BC i would be funding the best part of £70k over 3 years before seeing any rental return or being able to luiquidate things. A few pages back discussions on investing similar monies in UK and being able to buy a number of properties with lower deposits (ie 10-20%) and achieving similar collective returns surfaced.

Would I be better off buying 2 properties over here and feeling more secure about the whole (damn!) thing???

I:nuts: really should get my reservation deposit for BC in the post today - can anyone help me make my mind up?!


----------



## mission

Yes plz

You make money by taking risks, we are all in the same boat, just post the chq


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yez_plz, bigger risk = potential bigger gain.

Personally, do not think the "volatile region" issue will be a problem. If anything happens with Iran/US many would flee and want to live in Dubai anyway. Also terrorism would just be a setup back not a disaster. Dubai has reached a certain point of no return now. Look at london, after the attack prices have still shot up even more this year. Dubai and London have been rated as equal in terrorism risk assesments.

The thing you should consider is if to invest in UK or Duba because of financials. You can get much higher gearing in the UK. Buy to Let mortgages are now available at 100% rent / mortgage ratio and 90% LTV from last week. This means for 70k you can buy 6 or 7 house for around 100k in the north or a total porfolio of 700k. If that increases by 50% you make 350k pre tax profit from your 70k deposit. Question is many are saying UK house prices will crash (in which case you would have to ride it out maybe for up to 10 or 12 years to make a good profit) but others say it will go up by 60% in the UK over the next 4 years because of a housing shortage. Nobody knows for sure what will happen. 

Dubai on the other hand is set to increase further for the next 3 years but after that there is a potential crash depending on demand growing enough in the meantime.


----------



## mission

I think property "crash" is to easily used.

There might be a property slowdown in Dubai but there will never be a crash.

Most investors in Dubai are cash/majority buyers.

The only way there will be a property crash is if there is a interest hike and oversupply.

If one of them happen then it will not crash.


----------



## malec

Naz UK said:


> Erm...i'd buy a 1-bed sea-facing apartment on the 73rd floor of the Torch.


you mean princess-tower view


----------



## Naz UK

malec said:


> you mean princess-tower view


No...on the 73rd floor, I would get a clear sea-view (yes with a minor block form Princess) but otherwise i'd be looking straight over EMSAS, EC, MC and Le Reve.

So 1 block and 4 clear views is a "sea-view" in my book! Now go draw some 3-D objects!


----------



## Imre

mission said:


> If you had 1 million dirhams to spend on a property in Dubai where would you invest?


I would buy:

Jumeirah Lakes Towers 
1. because of 2 Metro station (2009-2010)
2. easy to rent out because of lot of commercial towers ( Jumeira Business Centers , Al Mas , etc)
3.opposite Dubai Marina
4.ready for 2008-2009 
5.good location 
6.still cheap price

or

Marina Diamonds
1.still cheap price
2.Dubai Marina
3.close to Marina Mall
4.good rental income
5.close to the beach and good location

If you have 1 million you can buy a big 1 B/r or small 2 B/r of JLT or MD`s 

or 1 studio and 1 B/r


----------



## Imre

29/10/2006

from Gulf News Freehold

rent prices

just save the pic and after you can increase the size


----------



## Morrismarina

My personal opinion is that we're not going to see much price growth in the UK property market now for many years. Prices are levelling off and affordability is being stretched to the limit. Repossessions are up 50% and there surely cannot be 60% price rises within the next 5 years. There's no affordability to support such a forecast. I think it's going to be relatively flat for the next 10 years. Also rental returns are low. In most cases rent will barely cover mortgage interest and then add in repairs/redecoration and void periods plus agents costs and you're likely to be losing money each month. 
Now I've just bought my one-bed in Bay Central and judging by the rentals that Imre's posted here I'm looking at 100k AED per year equating to about £15k sterling per annum. (Let's say £13k after I've paid the service charge). My marina one-bed costing me £145k, where in the UK could I possibly get that kind of rental return ??? I'd be looking at £550 p.m. if I was very lucky, ie. £6,600. Dubai rentals return are double this. 
Then factor in the potential capital growth in Dubai and I know where I'm investing. Forget the UK. :banana:


----------



## HarryKane

Dubai_Steve said:


> Personally, do not think the "volatile region" issue will be a problem.


I said "relatively volatile". Surely, most people would think that a country such as Switzerland, just as an example, is currently part of a more stable region than the Middle East.



Dubai_Steve said:


> If anything happens with Iran/US many would flee and want to live in Dubai anyway.


Personally, in the case of a nuclear fallout, Dubai would be one of the last places I would want to be in.



Dubai_Steve said:


> Also terrorism would just be a setup back not a disaster.


"Terrorism" is not the problem. These acts are usually localized events. I'm talking about established countries that literally disappear off the map in the matter of two hours like what happened to nearby Kuwait in 1991 and the repercussions of that event. That is the nature of the region, where surrounding countries are still feuding over their boundaries, although not always overtly. That's also part of what I mean by "a relatively volatile region". These factors make an educational guess about future economical conditions that more difficult, no matter what the sales pitch some developer is pushing.


----------



## Morrismarina

So I take it Harry that you're not even remotely interested in investing in the UAE then ??


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Morrismarina said:


> My personal opinion is that we're not going to see much price growth in the UK property market now for many years. Prices are levelling off and affordability is being stretched to the limit. Repossessions are up 50% and there surely cannot be 60% price rises within the next 5 years. There's no affordability to support such a forecast. I think it's going to be relatively flat for the next 10 years. Also rental returns are low. In most cases rent will barely cover mortgage interest and then add in repairs/redecoration and void periods plus agents costs and you're likely to be losing money each month.
> Now I've just bought my one-bed in Bay Central and judging by the rentals that Imre's posted here I'm looking at 100k AED per year equating to about £15k sterling per annum. (Let's say £13k after I've paid the service charge). My marina one-bed costing me £145k, where in the UK could I possibly get that kind of rental return ??? I'd be looking at £550 p.m. if I was very lucky, ie. £6,600. Dubai rentals return are double this.
> Then factor in the potential capital growth in Dubai and I know where I'm investing. Forget the UK. :banana:



Not certain still,

It is possible to buy a nice 2 or 3 bedroom semi in yorkshire and humberside for around £110k, maybe less if you put in an offer to a desperate seller and buy below market value.

Buy 6 of these for £70k deposits at 90% LTV and rent them out for £550 pcm each covering mortgage interest at 5.7%

Because value is relatively low, only £110k, price will rise in the next 5 or 6 years because of under supply and these will be affordable houses for first time or 2nd time buyers.

If price rises 50% then you would get back £330k plus your £70k put in.

Compare to Dubai :

Put in 70k - prices rise 50% in next 5 years: your 145k apartment then is worth £217k. Sell and get back £72k profit + £43.5k depost + £8k reypayments = £123k only (compared to 400k in the UK)


But as you say will prices of affordable house in the north of the UK go up by 50% in the next 5 years. That is the question. They may well stagnate or go down slightly.

So still deciding on BC.


----------



## Morrismarina

Just out of interest do you live in or close-by to Yorkshire ?? If so, fair enough.
If not then you're going to do a lot of travelling maintaining your 6 or 7 Yorkshire properties, let alone getting them ready (decorating.etc.) for rent in the first place. If you don't live close to Yorkshire then say goodbye to your weekends on the golf course !!


----------



## HarryKane

Morrismarina said:


> So I take it Harry that you're not even remotely interested in investing in the UAE then ??


You've missed my point. Being interested is one thing. Predicting, and relying on, that investment to yield me long term returns with any kind of reasonable accuracy is a totally different story. 
Like Steve said, the higher the risk, the higher the potential return (and higher potential loss). It depends on your tendencies, but Dubai is certainly not the riskiest place in the world to invest. I feel somewhat comfortable in the medium-term, but I'll still try to play it cautiously.


----------



## HarryKane

Imre said:


> 29/10/2006 from Gulf News Freehold rent prices


Don't forget, though, that these are the asking prices. I once had a villa in the Springs that was offered at the going asking price and there were no takers for about 5 months. Finally, I had to settle for a price lower than the prices that were advertised in these papers. At least, that was my experience.


----------



## HarryKane

Morrismarina said:


> If not then you're going to do a lot of travelling maintaining your 6 or 7 Yorkshire properties, let alone getting them ready (decorating.etc.) for rent in the first place.


Aren't there property managers who can handle this? Of course, they take a cut, but it might be worth it.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

It will be interesting to see what happens when JBR is finally released. I wonder how much that will affect rents in marina diamonds for example.


----------



## mission

I think the rents will be 8-10% in 12 months

I would never invest in the uk anymore


----------



## greenbage

*Dubai News*

Published: 10/25/2006 12:00 AM (UAE)

Andrew Jeffreys, Editor-in-Chief,Oxford Business Group. 

Evaluating the Dubai model 
By Gaurav Ghose, Staff Reporter

Gulf News: What trends in Dubai's current growth story strike you the most?

Jeffreys: One trend that's interesting and which goes beyond the usual conversation of the property market going bust or the traffic situation getting worse is that with excess liquidity around, the major public and private players in Dubai - Dubai Holding, Dubai World, EMAAR and others - are increasingly and aggressively going overseas. They are now feeling that it is almost a requirement to invest abroad to continue on the path of growth and prosperity. The "Dubai Model" is now being taken outside Dubai. When Dubai embarked on its own expansion, there was a lot of cynicism in the region as to whether the model will work here. That was in the late 1990s. But now looking at the success stories, we can say that, broadly, the model has worked.

Gulf News: Will the Dubai model work elsewhere? 

Jeffreys: I believe so. First, you have these huge funds. When you talk about diversification, Dubai is a case study in itself - it has tried to make itself a major player in so many areas - real estate, tourism, high-tech and increasingly in education and health. These large real estate projects-sort of mixed use developments that we see here which are upscale residential buildings with swimming pools, golf courses, shops, marinas-you haven't seen in the Levant or North Africa until now. Two years ago, Dubai Holding was not known in Morocco. With its announcement this year of massive investments in large real estate projects in Morocco, Dubai is aggressively pursuing investments abroad. It is also looking at Tunisia and other parts of the Middle East. Also, they are investing in different projects in Pakistan, India and China.

Gulf News: What are the strengths of Dubai's companies investing abroad? What are the challenges?

Jeffreys: Many big groups are taking advantage of the synergies of different companies within the holding group, which is an important feature of the Dubai Model. All individual companies are competitive and efficient than just being state-owned. In Pakistan, Dubai World, for example, is exploring opportunities leveraging all three - Dubai Ports to build ports, Nakheel for real estate projects and Istithmar, the investment arm. But the bottom line is these are companies that have operated in a country where they are a part of that country. When you go to other countries, you have to operate under different laws and regulations. Thus far they have done well. 

Gulf News: What does it all mean for Dubai's domestic growth? 

Jeffreys: The market is cooling down. We are not seeing prices rises as we saw last year. We now see that the government has been reducing the number of projects. If you compare projects launched in the past six and the previous six months, there is a clear reduction. I look at it as the end of a cycle, not the end of Dubai's external growth. There is so much demand not just from the Middle East and Asia, but also from the North Africa and the UK. It won't undermine the level of growth with more and more companies going abroad. They will be bringing profits back to Dubai, helping it to grow.


----------



## turbo

Any thoughts on the following:

paradise lakes tower B5, 2 bedroom, 981 sq feet, AED 309,000
AED 1,000 floor charge per floor.
Parking, extra AED 15,000

Projected rental on completion (2008?) AED 45-50,000 p/a

Not sure of the location or the rental demand.

Turbo


----------



## Dubai_Steve

mission said:


> I think the rents will be 8-10% in 12 months
> 
> I would never invest in the uk anymore


Yes Dubai Marina is on the way to being a cooling spot and no longer a hotspot. Prices are still increasing but rents should be decreasing with the release of all the units in JBR very soon and so on.


----------



## turbo

Paradise Lake is a group of towers (25 levels) created to cater to the need of an ultra modern lifestyle! Not to Mention its breathtaking ambience & aesthetic charm! it's conveniently located on the Emirates Road and its is just 20 Minutes drive from the Dubai International Airport. Features An awe - inspiring lifestyle designed for the discerning.. Facilities • Private elevated covered car parking • Temperature controlled swimming pool • Kids pool & Snack Bar • Gymnasium & aerobic • Games Area • High speed Elevators • Shopping Mall at Ground Floor • Security System • Quality fittings and lights


----------



## Morrismarina

turbo said:


> Paradise Lake is a group of towers (25 levels) created to cater to the need of an ultra modern lifestyle! Not to Mention its breathtaking ambience & aesthetic charm! it's conveniently located on the Emirates Road and its is just 20 Minutes drive from the Dubai International Airport. Features An awe - inspiring lifestyle designed for the discerning.. Facilities • Private elevated covered car parking • Temperature controlled swimming pool • Kids pool & Snack Bar • Gymnasium & aerobic • Games Area • High speed Elevators • Shopping Mall at Ground Floor • Security System • Quality fittings and lights


Wow.....you've found all this out within 3 minutes of your last post. Incredible. :lol: :lol:


----------



## mackie1964

*New to this, please take it easy*

I along with a friend very recently bought in both the Torch and Timeplace, 1 bed apartments with Marina View.

Can somebody tell me what return I can expect from rental on both of them?


----------



## Imre

Paradise Lake Ajman (just be careful , I saw some no name developers adverts with cheap prices...)

I would recommend ETA STAR project:

Goldcrest Dreams
Dreams in paradise
The four majestic residential towers of Goldcrest Dreams is being built ing the newest mixed use development on the Emirates highway, Ajman. Aptly named the Paradise Lakes, it caters to a wide range of tastes and preferences – an ideal environment to build your dream home.

Dreams and Visions
Located on the Emirates Highway, Goldcrest Dreams is:

• Twenty minutes drive from Dubai international Airport.
• Twenty minutes drive from Sharjah international Airport.
• Twenty five minutes drive from Dubai City Centre.
• Zero Minutes away from your heart.

Dreams at your doorstep
The moment you step out of your comfortable apartment, you are spoilt for choice with ready access to shopping areas within Paradise Lakes.

And if you are not an avid shopper; perhaps you could choose to spend the whole day staring at clouds silently moving above or working out in the gym while your children splash about in the covered pool on the roof top.

All this before you choose which restaurant or café to dine in when you’re in the mood.

Enjoy a wonderful life at Goldcrest dreams.



Dreams welcome you
The plush lobby of each block is designed to impress your friends and relatives every time they visit you.

• Dreams 1 Bedroom

Four different variations on the one bedroom will ensure that you find the one that’s just right for you.

• Dreams 2 Bedroom

Large two bedroom apartment that’s ideal for your family


Ajman
This smallest of the seven emirates with an area of just 260 sq kms is centrally located on the western coast of the UAE. Like the other emirates Ajman too has a pleasant blend of the old and the new, the simple and the sophisticated.

You can enter Ajman city from sharjah which brings you in to the corniche, with a fine sandy beach on one side and the city spread out on the other. Away in any one of the beautiful beaches of Ajman, barga in hunters could do well with a visit to the Ajman Souk renowned for its architectural splendour.

The Ajman City Centre is another shoppers destination with about 50 international and Local retail line shops to cater to a diverse range of tastes.

The capital city, Ajman, contains the beautiful old fort as its centre. In addition to the Ruler's office, various companies, banks and commercial centres the emirate is also blessed with a natural harbour in which the port of Ajman is situated, home to one of the largest ship repairing companies.

Two in land enclaves belong to Ajman emirate. Masfout ia an agricultural area located 110 kilometres to the southeast of the city, near Hatta, whichfeatures some of the most beautiful yellow-blossoming 'farfar' trees(Tecomella undulata) in the UAE. Manama, the other enclave, is located just north of the main Dhaid- Masafi highway.

Ajman port also offers best facilities for business specially imports and exports


Facilities
• G + 4 Parking – 25 Floors • Choice of Single & Double bedroom units • Actual 100% ownership • UAE residence visa • Lakes, waterways and fountains • Landscaped gardens • Swimming pools • Playground areas • Security systems • Satellite TV • Neighboring shopping mall 

Architecture
Dreams built in time Goldcrest Dreams is being designed by Adnan Saffarini Engineering Consultant. Headquartered in Dubai with branches throughout the Emirates, Qatar and Jordan, Adnan Saffarini has built its reputation brick by brick over a period of 3 years. In this span of time, it has designed an successfully executed a number of projects such as royal palaces, universities, schools, towers, commercial and residential buildings, embassies, mosques, villas, shopping malls and warehouses. 

Payment Terms
Special highlights: • Pre-approved finance from the developer • No banks, minimum paper work. • Dream homes from AED. 1,999/- per month! • 100% freehold + UAE residence visa 

here is more info:

http://www.gowealthy.com/realestate/uae/ajman/goldcrestdreams/index.asp

price now around 375 dhs/sqfeet


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ low prices and 5 years interest free payment terms. Quite interesting.


----------



## Imre

here is a payment plan:

PAYMENT PLAN 

Type 2 B/R - A	1 B/R - B	1 B/R - C	1 B/R - D	1 B/R - E
Sq Ft 1,187.84 823.62 881.09 970.92 1,075.71 
Rate 375.00 375.00 375.00 375.00 375.00 
Sale Value 445,440.00 308,857.50 330,409 364,095 403,391 

Sr. No	Installments	Amount	Amount	Amount	Amount	Amount
Booking 50,000 37,500 38,000 40,000 45,000 
1	01-Oct-06 11,000 6,000 7,500 10,000 10,000 
2	01-Jan-07 11,000 6,000 7,500 10,000 10,000 
3	01-Apr-07 11,000 6,000 7,500 10,000 10,000 
4	01-Jul-07 11,000 6,000 7,500 10,000 10,000 
5	01-Oct-07 11,000 6,000 7,500 10,000 10,000 
6	01-Jan-08 11,000 6,000 7,500 10,000 10,000 
7	01-Apr-08 11,000 6,000 7,500 10,000 10,000 
8	01-Jul-08 11,000 6,000 7,500 10,000 10,000 
9	01-Oct-08 11,000 6,000 7,500 10,000 10,000 
10	01-Jan-09 11,000 6,000 7,500 10,000 10,000 
11	01-Apr-09 11,000 6,000 7,500 10,000 10,000 
12	01-Jul-09 80,000 55,000 55,000 60,000 60,000 COMPLETION
13	01-Oct-09 19,000 16,000 16,000 17,000 19,000 
14	01-Jan-10 19,000 16,000 16,000 17,000 19,000 
15	01-Apr-10 19,000 16,000 16,000 17,000 19,000 
16	01-Jul-10 19,000 16,000 16,000 17,000 19,000 
17	01-Oct-10 19,000 16,000 16,000 17,000 19,000 
18	01-Jan-11 19,000 16,000 16,000 17,000 19,000 
19	01-Apr-11 19,000 16,000 16,000 17,000 19,000 
20	01-Jul-11 61,440 38,358 42,910 35,095 55,392 
Total 445,440.00 308,858 330,409 364,095 403,392 

Note: - Price excludes a car park space

car park space: 25.000 dhs 5000 dhs now 20.000 on completion


----------



## mackie1964

mission said:


> 1 bedroom at Timeplace, 1b floorplan brought it for 484000dr
> 
> Anyone have an idea how much its worth now i aint got a clue


A Bargain, At Present Re-sale Value for Type 1B = AED 772,924 (high floor 20+). Direct from Developer =AED 995,115 (floor 32)

This should make your day Mission. My day was ruined by what I found about my investment in the Torch.


----------



## Morrismarina

Mackie I do sympathise with you and I hate to say this but, but it is a case of "buyer beware" to be honest. I assume there's nothing in your contract stating that no development will take place in front of The Torch ?? Assuming there's not, then did you purchase purely on the basis of what some excitable sales person told you on the phone ?? Did you go out to Dubai to view the plot before signing ???


----------



## mackie1964

All that the contract says is that it is a full marina view, what ever that means. I have not seen this specific plot by I have seen photos showing the marina club and a small roundabout in front of it.

I will be checking with DS within the next few days and also via a contact at Emaar. Did not do much homework I know, very unlike me


----------



## Krazy

^^ mackie check your PM


----------



## Morrismarina

It really is a shame that you didn't go and look at the plot first, so many people buy overseas without viewing the development. Nobody would ever buy a property in the UK without seeing it first. 
Please don't beat yourself up about it, The Torch is going to be a great investment. Not sure what you've paid for your apartment but the Torch prices are very competitive. By the way when did you sign up for it ???
I've just paid £145k for a one bed at BayCentral with Marina view but to be fair it's a lot of money and it's nowhere as near as big as your Torch one bed which is huge. I'm also buying Torch one bed other side of tower Media City facing and these are larger than the one beds on the other sides as they were made 10% bigger following the tower re-design.
What are you planning to do with, rent it out ?? And if so long term or holidays ??


----------



## mackie1964

I have been to Dubai many times and I love the Marina Area, specially the top are where the Torch is, that is why when I had the chance to get a marina view I went for it. The short-term plan is to rent it (any idea on Typical rental value?) and long term to use it part of the year for our family's use. I have also invested along with a friend in the timeplace and we were going to sell it when the time is right, this one has a full marina view for sure.
I paid around AED 960/sqft including Balcony.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

(continued from Torch thread)

^^ Market in Dubai went up around 15% - 20% last year I believe. Dubai Select quote 18%. Also BC prices are much higher than the Torch. Resale on Torch apartments is possible because location is very good and in demand and the Torch will be a major landmark tower. Also views will be good to the side even if there is a tower in front and so on. On completion you will see much higher gain as market will continue to grow over the next 2 years. Also apartment quality should be very high with granite/marble finishes etc. Rental returns will also remain high for towers in this location.


----------



## lalaland

Dubai_Steve said:


> (continued from Torch thread)
> 
> ^^ Market in Dubai went up around 15% - 20% last year I believe. Dubai Select quote 18%. Also BC prices are much higher than the Torch. Resale on Torch apartments is possible because location is very good and in demand and the Torch will be a major landmark tower. Also views will be good to the side even if there is a tower in front and so on. On completion you will see much higher gain as market will continue to grow over the next 2 years. Also apartment quality should be very high with granite/marble finishes etc. Rental returns will also remain high for towers in this location.


Dubai Select are selling apartments in The Torch at prices 3% more than 18 months ago, so don't know how 18% can be justified !


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Can you give an example of the current price of a torch apartment if reserved today. Perhaps mackie can provide this. I will compare with the original price list. Remember prices went up 2.5% alone on launch. So I find it hard to believe you scooby that there was only 0.5% increase in Dubai Select's prices in 18 months.


----------



## mackie1964

I believe there are very few left at lower level.

Type 4 & 5 at lower levels = AED930,000 Approx.
Type 4 & 5 at a higher level = AED 875,000 Approx
Type 7 & 8 at a medium ish level = AED 950,000 Approx.

Hope this helps, please let me know how does this compare with old prices.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

mackie1964 said:


> I believe there are very few left at lower level.
> 
> Type 4 & 5 at lower levels = AED930,000 Approx.
> Type 4 & 5 at a higher level = AED 875,000 Approx
> Type 7 & 8 at a medium ish level = AED 950,000 Approx.
> 
> Hope this helps, please let me know how does this compare with old prices.


Type 4 & 5 at lower levels were around AED 720,000 to AED770,000 Approx at launch. So that means prices are around 15% higher now if comparing to 875,000 which I think you meant?

However, it is not a fair comparision, we would need to compare exact apartment numbers as the price varies a lot for floor to floor and view etc.

Do you have any exact apartment no. and price ?


----------



## Morrismarina

Take no notice of Lalaland, you can't have anything near a sensible discussion with him (or perhaps her ??). Just out to discredit DubaiSelect at all times. Krazy - I thought this individual had been banned from these forums ?? :bash:


----------



## mackie1964

Sorry the top line should have read 830,000 approx.

I have compared some old prices with new ones and it is between 12% to 15% increase in most cases. Not bad.


----------



## Krazy

Morrismarina said:


> Krazy - I thought this individual had been banned from these forums ?? :bash:


It's not scooby


----------



## Morrismarina

Of course it's Scobby....... :bash:


----------



## Naz UK

Morrismarina said:


> Of course it's Scobby....... :bash:


Maybe its Shaggy.:runaway:


----------



## yecabel

...


----------



## jjmconsultants

*INVESTING INLAND*

HI ALL
ANY IDEAS ABOUT INVESTING INLAND IE IN DUBAI SILICON OASIS?
CAN ANYONE PROVIDE INFO ON THE BUILDER TAMEER, HOW ARE THE PROJECTS THEY UNDERTAKE?


----------



## Morrismarina

yecabel said:


> the unit we did buy is in the 72nd floor, marina view(?),hopefully at least at that height no towers will block the view.
> i do agree that sales rep.s should be properly trained as their exagerations are only harming DS reputation.


Your view will be stunning. Did you buy a one or three bed ???


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What is the highest floor for 2 beds in the torch ?


----------



## jagban

mackie1964 said:


> A Bargain, At Present Re-sale Value for Type 1B = AED 772,924 (high floor 20+). Direct from Developer =AED 995,115 (floor 32)
> 
> This should make your day Mission. My day was ruined by what I found about my investment in the Torch.


What is the problem with your Torch appartment? The picture on DS website seems to imply it is located on the edge of the Marina.


----------



## yecabel

Morrismarina said:


> Your view will be stunning. Did you buy a one or three bed ???


1 bed. yes, hopefully the views will be stunning.

by-the-way, does anyone know if DS can personalize the interiors at extra cost? we were thinking to have marble or granite in the kitchen and bathroom instead of those common tiles stated on the contract.

i'll contact them to find out.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

yecabel said:


> 1 bed. yes, hopefully the views will be stunning.
> 
> by-the-way, does anyone know if DS can personalize the interiors at extra cost? we were thinking to have marble or granite in the kitchen and bathroom instead of those common tiles stated on the contract.
> 
> i'll contact them to find out.


Threshold and counter tops are already marble for the bathroom and kitchen in the contract. Do you mean the ceramic floor tiles ? Entrance and living room are graniti tiles - what is graniti as opposed to granite ?


----------



## mission

When i ever speak to an estate agent in dubai they always ask me for a price for marketing my apartment. Soon as i ask them the value of the apartment they dont answer it


----------



## Dubai_Steve

A warning on Dubai property prices has been issued by Standard Chartered Bank, which is predicting both residential sale prices and rents will fall back by 5 per cent next year.

It reasons that with a stream of developments coming to completion, that even though demand currently outstrips demand, this situation will soon be reversed.

The bank suggests prices, which by its reckoning are still rising at 18.8 per cent per annum, will peak in the first half of next year. However, while Dubai will feel the heat, Abu Dhabi may move ahead on the back of recently liberalised investment rules.

A Prime Group report cited by Standard Chartered estimates that around 52,000 new Dubai residential units will be completed next year, with a further 63,000 set for release in 2008. Given ‘a reasonable assumption’ of 7 per cent population growth for the emirate, this suggests supply will exceed demand by around 6,000 units in 2007 and 33,000 units in 2008. The result is likely to be that property prices and rents will slip for the next two years.

‘We have argued before that residential property prices are likely to come down around 20 to 30 per cent in the next two to three years and we believe that we are getting close to the peak in residential property prices’, said Steve Brice, regional head of research for the bank for the Middle East.

‘While demand is likely to remain strong in the coming years, as Dubai continues to focus on diversifying its economy away from oil, the key is supply’. 

The Bank said prices jumped by an ‘extraordinary’ 12.9 per cent in October after a 1 per cent fall between July and September. This ‘may have come from a realisation that estimates for the release of properties reported for the second half of the year are unlikely to be attained. Indeed, one developer at one point suggested it would be releasing 60,000 units onto the market in the second half of 2006 and Prime Group now estimates the full year market figure will only be 40,000. There may also be a seasonal effect at play here’.


----------



## Morrismarina

Thanks for the article Steve which as it's Standard Chartered Bank has quite a bit of credibility IMO. Some interesting issues identified here namely concern about oversupply in 2008 & 2009.
I agree that any Dubai investment needs to be medium to long term. 
I'm going to have to rent my properties out as cannot finance the monthly payments from my own income. Does anybody think there will be any issue over actually obtaining long term tenants 2 or 3 years from now in the Marina with so many properties comming to completion ? Would I be correct in assuming that most are rented "unfurnished" and if there is tough competition would going down the "furnished" route be an advantage ??


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ They are only predicting a 5% descrease in rent next year. Maybe same again the following year. So you will still be able to cover your mortgage especially because you are buying into a fantastic development - Bay Central.

Anyway they are basing this on the fact that JBR will be ready in spring next year, but I do not think it will be as bad as they predict as many owners of JBR will not be renting their property out as they want to keep it purely for their own holiday home usage. Many of the original buyers will try and sell on however to make a profit on the cheap purchase price they paid years ago.


----------



## eudora

*3 bed appt in Bay Central*

I am interested in a 3 bed property in BC. Not been able to to get full details of spec as yet?

Please could anyone give me idea of the current level of rental for short term and long term lets?

thanks

Sorry this question has been answered before.


----------



## DUBAI DRUM

*DUBAI PARTY*

Hi Guys
As you can see in the last 2 years i have not posted much.
I have bought a few apartments in JBR and will be leaving blighty for dubai on the 02nd DEC 2006. I will be staying at oasis beach tower hotel (in the middle of JBR development) with a few mates and was wandering if any of you dubai based guys fancy a few beers?
Imre your first few beers will be on the house (the pictures are a godsend).
Also wandering how Naz is getting on (check your pm) .
We are thinking of investing even more in dubai as we can negotiate discounts due to the number we usually buy and would be interested in your thoughts to the few questions that we have. rents etccc...
thanks
Tony


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ I can join you guys for a few beers at oasis beach tower in mid December  All drinks for Imre will be on us!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

eudora said:


> I am interested in a 3 bed property in BC. Not been able to to get full details of spec as yet?
> 
> Please could anyone give me idea of the current level of rental for short term and long term lets?
> 
> thanks
> 
> Sorry this question has been answered before.


Don't think spec has been written or published yet. 3 bed is better for long term rentals than vacation rentals. Best to compare with current rents in better homes www.bhomes.com for a high quality development. Somewhere between 180,000 and 220,000 I would say.


----------



## Naz UK

Hi Tony, got your PM thanks mate! Yes no worries, would definitely like to join you for a drink, obviously depends on my schedule though. I've been dropped straight in the deep end at work, its the busiest time of the year, a ton of exhibtions to attend...(INDEX, GITEX, CITYSCAPE, etc)...so hopefully i'll send you an email near the time with my number. I'm settling in OK, but as always with me..the humidity is something that takes some getting used to for me, even though I'm aware its currently no where near as bad as it gets in the summer! Oh well, just hope I can climatise well.


----------



## Morrismarina

I'm having a few seconds thoughts about my one bed I've reserved in BC. A little concerned about the number of units comming onto the market and the possibility of not finding a tenant. An option for me would to go for a 2 bed in BC but would *have* to sell my one bed in Torch immediately on completion to fund the higher payments on the 15 year plan. So would have a two bed to rent out, rather than two one beds. Do you think a two bed would be easier to let out ??? Or should I stick with the one beds ??


----------



## Krazy

^^ I would recommend a two bed because then you can use it for your family if you decide not to rent it out... however the two beds in BC are small in size and not something that you would like as your "home" in the long term.. so a one bed would be better off from an investment point of view... but thats how i feel.. i cud be wrong


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think it will be quite difficult to rent any apartments for vacation rentals in 3 years time because JBR will get the first customers and then there are so many hotels openning. If renting a 1 bed to a single professional or a couple long term you need to think who would want to rent it as opposed to a bigger and cheaper 1 bed somewhere else in the marina. Competition will be fierce. BC apartments are not very big but the location/view is good. But I think I would prefer a 1 bed in the torch and 1 bed in BC rather than a 2 bed in BC.

I was also wondering if it is better to wait for the BC hotel serviced apartments but 50% higer price is a lot.


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## Dubai_Steve

2 beds in BC are 1233 sq ft with balcony - not that small - good enough to rent on 6 or 12 month contracts to a professional couple or wealthy single.


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## Krazy

^^ As compared to a 2 bedr right next door with 1600 sq of space for a cheaper price with a full marina view at the widest bay - with wall to wall glass thruout the marina facing walls?


----------



## Morrismarina

Many that's for the info guys. To be honest I was fairly certain about what I was doing until a few nights ago when I suddenly started thinking I might not be doing the best thing.
I'm thinking that holiday lets may not be the way to go, just as you say Steve JBR may take up all the capacity. Long term let may be best option.
Which leads me to wonder why I've reserved a BC apartment. Hotel nice attraction but is this really beneficial to a long term tenant at work all day??I'm driving myself mad here at the moment........
Another option may be to purchase one of the last one beds in Torch, so I have two there. Much bigger size and a little cheaper, may be better for long term tenant. Also helps my stretched cashflow hell of a lot as Torch will be completed in June'08 only really 18 months away now whereas BC is almost 3 years time (Sept'09) (assuming both complete on time of course). With Torch I'd be getting my rental income in much quicker. Oh dear......looks like I'm heading for another sleepless night tonight.


----------



## Krazy

^^ For long term rentals, it's better to go for medium income housing rather than high end market like marina. Not everyone can afford 85K rents for a one bedroom apt in dubai


----------



## Morrismarina

Thanks Krazy........yes another option for me to consider. :nuts:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

2 beds in the Torch are about the same size as 2 beds in BC I think.

BC should be easier to rent out than the Torch. There will be a lot of units in the upper marina location. BC has the advantage of the hotel name and better views.

Morris, I would just keep 1 bed in each. Spread your risk across both, unless you think you can't afford to keep both with delayed completions.

or if you want a really sleepless night, why not invest somwehere else like panama where prices will be going up rather than down for the next 3 years


----------



## arfie

Regarding BC being easier to rent out than the Torch I'm not so sure. Views of both apts will be very good obv it depends whats going to get built in front of the Torch. However the Torch is located on the widest part of the marina so you should get very good views whatever happens. 

Morris if you already have something in the Torch it maybe worth investment elsewhere in Dubai rather than the marina.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ nowhere else in Dubai offers non status mortgage/loan.


----------



## Morrismarina

Been doing a bit of research & comparison on the web, here's an interesting site with lots of UK new builds:

http://www.1stop-propertyshop.co.uk...htm?gclid=CIjcseG5v4gCFUYGQgodBRSOKA#admirals

UK sizes very small, some two beds are less than 600 sq ft and some haven't even got parking. Dubai prices seem very cheap in comparison hence my feeling that prices over next 7 years will double, may be even sooner.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I still think they may double in Dubai the next 7 years also but depends on the supply/demand equation. When do you think demand will be greater than supply again in Dubai after 2008 ? How many units are due for completion in 09 and 2010 ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

While on the subject of the UK:

The world's third largest container port operator, Dubai Ports World, announced its plan to invest $2.87 billion in developing a harbor and business park in southeast Britain. 

United Arab Emirate-state-owned Dubai Ports World issued a statement on Saturday. 

It announced that the plans included a quay big enough to handle 3.5 million containers a year along with a 1,500 acre site that would generate more than 14,000 jobs. 

According to Reuters, Dubai Ports World has a capacity to handle 50 million containers a year and is expanding in India, China and the Middle East.


----------



## Morrismarina

I haven't got the figures Steve. But if I had would not be much use without knowing the future increase in population (which is pure guesswork). The number of new unit figures would apply to the whole of Dubai anyway. As most on this thread are looking at quality investments, mainly the Marina, then any oversupply not taken up could be just in the cheaper areas, International City, Dubailand etc. and may not affect the Marina. Most purchasers in Dubai would be realtively wealthy and be looking at The Palms and Marina (or The World if you're in the Beckham league). People like to be near the coast and water. Also Marina is near Internet City etc. and people like to purchase near to where they work. Perhaps...just perhaps...there won't be a supply shortage in these quality areas even over the next few years.


----------



## Morrismarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> While on the subject of the UK:
> 
> The world's third largest container port operator, Dubai Ports World, announced its plan to invest $2.87 billion in developing a harbor and business park in southeast Britain.
> 
> United Arab Emirate-state-owned Dubai Ports World issued a statement on Saturday.
> 
> It announced that the plans included a quay big enough to handle 3.5 million containers a year along with a 1,500 acre site that would generate more than 14,000 jobs.
> 
> According to Reuters, Dubai Ports World has a capacity to handle 50 million containers a year and is expanding in India, China and the Middle East.



Bloody hell....they don't do half measures in Dubai !!!! Everything's twice as much and twice as big as anything else !! :lol:


----------



## mackie1964

Interesting information, it aligns with an Interview I watched a few days ago with a British Minister visiting Dubai for some kind of exhibition.

In the interview the level of investment coming into the UK from the UAE worried me, It is good for this country of course.

In the same programme a topic was discussed that I found both positive and interesting and I am interested in reading your views about it. The topic was about the value of the AED against the $ and the tie that exist between them, there was a talk of how the AED was very much under valued and that they are looking at doing some thing about re-evaluating it and also the tie to the $. I think a value of around AED 5 to £ was mentioned by one of the financial experts on the programme. What do you think?


----------



## Morrismarina

That's very interesting Mackie. I'm not that good at currencies but lets see how this would work. I paid AED 752,000 for my TT pad. At say AED 6.5 to UK£ equates to £116k. Now if rate was 5.0 AED and I sold my apartment for what I paid then I would get back £150k. Hey I like this idea, sounds good to me. 
Ok another one, so I rent my TT unit for say AED 80,000 p.a. and bring the money back home to UK each year. At present rate would be earning £12k p.a. but at new rate would be £16k. Nice.....
I would lose out though on the mtge pyts (or DS payt plan) if paying them by sending sterling to Dubai. But assuming apartments are rented out would have no effect as would pay mtge in Dirhams and collect rent in Dirhams.
As I say I'm no expert, but downside would be somebody selling their UK property to live in Dubai and purchase one in Dubai. Would find their sterling would go far less than before making Dubai property much more expensive.
BTW anybody know if Dirhams have always been 3.67 to the dollar ??


----------



## Dubai_Steve

A downside may be that inward investment into UAE decreases thereby reducing potential capital gains.


----------



## mackie1964

No body mentioned the de-crease in inward investment into the UAE, in fact they talked about a massive increase in the Abu Dhabi market.

My thoughts were more about the confidence that the locals have in the British economy rather than their own, but that could be just a sound investment rules by spreading the risk. Emaar and Nakeel are also investing in the UK market but what do I know, I just want to make some money and live later for free in my apartment long term (well not totally free, service charges).


----------



## mackie1964

Has any of you thought about fixing the exchange rate at the current AED 6.96 to the £ for the payments until the completion date. You only need 10% I can't see the rate going higher but I can see it going much lower. I could be wrong.


----------



## Morrismarina

Makes perfect sense to fix at this rate, max it's ever been was Jan'05 at 7.2 but doubt it will go to this.....could be wrong though....don't take my advice I fixed my rates in April this year at around 6.5 thinking dollar would strengthen, but it's had a right old hammering the past 6 months......never saw that comming. But without a crystal ball I'd definitely fix now at this rate.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Research commissioned by Zabeel Investments and carried out by AC Nielsen has shown that British expatriates are the largest group of non-national investors in the UAE, primarily putting their money into property. But uncertainty over the new property law has left some potential expat investors hesitant. The survey also found that nationals preferred putting their money into stocks, rather than property, in the hope of achieving fast returns.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Britons prefer Dubai as second home*

Dubai is one of the fastest emerging cities in the world, and its popularity among Britons looking to retire, or buy a second home, has made it an ideal 'place in the sun', according to Dubai Properties.

Over 100,000 Britons have purchased homes in Dubai since the start of the property boom in 2002. Dubai is competing with Spain and France in the second-home market, with both countries accounting for roughly 35 per cent and 24 per cent respectively of British homes overseas. 

Fahad Al Gergawi, Director of International Relations, Dubai Properties says: 

'British investors are keen to invest in Dubai because of its tax free status, low crime rate, excellent services and enviable lifestyle. The sunny weather, of course, is another favourable factor in the equation, particularly when you take into account winters in the UK.'

According to statistics issued by the international marketing arm of Dubai Properties, around 24.2 per cent of purchasers of Dubai Properties' projects live either in Dubai or the UK, and are British citizens. 

'A UK resident would ideally like to live in individual houses [attached or detached], preferably with a small garden for the children. It can be a beachfront or a unit in the desert - that's not really important. It's not where the unit is but what the unit is,' said Al Gergawi. 

According to Dubai Properties, the overseas home market has matured considerably, particularly in this region. At one time, Dubai used to be the perfect investment for speculators looking to make a quick profit. Capital appreciation has risen between 15 to 20 per cent annually, making Dubai the ideal place for investors with disposable income. 

However, the current market trend favours only people looking to own a home, or for people seeking healthy and steady investment returns both from the resale market and high rental yields on completed properties. Rental yields in Dubai are around seven to 10 per cent, while in the UK they average around three to four per cent annually. 

A key factor in the recent popularity of Dubai as a second-home investment is the Freehold Property Law, issued in March, 2006, which granted non-GCC citizens the right to purchase freehold properties in designated areas. The inclusion of Dubai Properties' key master communities in those designated areas added another dimension to the master developer's offerings. 

'Business Bay, Culture Village, The Villa and Jumeirah Beach Residence were all included in areas designated as freehold by the Dubai Government. This move gave confidence to investors as well as homeowners as it ensured that their rights were protected by legislation.' 

According to Al Gergawi, Dubai's main competitors are upcoming holiday resorts in the Balkans, including those in Bulgaria and Croatia, which are also good investments in terms of value for money. 

'However, with the recent property ownership laws and the long link that Britons have had with Dubai as tourists or expatriates, most home owners still prefer this region for a variety of reasons,' he said. 

Dubai Properties international business development department has held several road shows in the UK and Europe to promote Dubai as an ideal second home destination and viable investment opportunity.


----------



## cheath

Hi there people it is a while since I posted and I see a few new faces here.

We have bought in Saba Tower 3 and from photos on the site it appears they are getting on with the project. It will be interesting to see what sales prices and renatl prices saba Tower 2 acheives when it is complete. It will the give an idea of jow JLT will progress as a location compared to marine. In the short term the ongoing construction may affect rental levels.

Does anyone know if local agenst are currentl 'taking order' on JLT apartments?

On the money side of things one option you can investigate is chaanging your £ inot US$ and placing them in a US$ bank account. Nationwide do a great one based in the Isle of man and currently pay 5.25% gross intertest on deposits over $100,000


----------



## True Blue

It's the Chinese again devalueing the dollar (and linked dirham)

LONDON, Nov 13 (Reuters) - Sterling held around half a U.S. cent away from a recent 1-1/2 year high against the dollar on Monday, with sentiment for the U.S. currency still damaged from a broad-selloff last week. The dollar fell broadly last week after Chinese central bank governor Zhou Xiaochuan told Reuters China would diversify its $1 trillion foreign exchange reserves -- a move interpreted as negative for dollar-denominated assets.

Investors were awaiting UK producer prices data on Monday and consumer prices figures on Tuesday ahead of the Bank of England's quarterly inflation report later in the week for clues on whether the BoE would raise interest rates again having hiked them last week to 5 percent.


----------



## Krazy

*Investors say property laws are not clear*

A senior finance executive has called for clarification of the UAE’s property laws as new research shows more than half of potential investors are still unclear about them.

The research, commissioned by Zabeel Investments, shows that concerns over clarifications in the country’s property ownership and liability laws are making 64 per cent of investors hesitant to part with their money.

Mohammed Ali Al Hashimi, the executive chairman of Zabeel Investments and managing director of Amlak Finance, said: “It has been interesting to study the results of the research and get a dipstick of general feelings towards the UAE as an investment opportunity, particularly from those looking to stay in the UAE. It is clear from hesitation by the expatriate community that there needs to be clarification about the ownership and liability laws with regards to property.

“The UAE, and Dubai in particular, has grown in popularity among expatriates, but we still have a way to go to reassure them that this is a viable and healthy investment opportunity. The government has tried to explain a lot of these issues, but there needs to be further clarification.” Al Hashimi told Emirates Today he has confidence in Dubai’s long-term investment prospects despite the possibility of “glitches” in the property market. “You have to look at the long term,” he said. “Anyone looking to come in to make a quick buck may get burned, because markets always tend to correct themselves a number of times.

“I am not a believer in this ‘bubble’ theory – I think the long-term growth is always going to be there. Will it have glitches here and there? Possibly. The availability of property finance is always a good sign, and you now have all the banks offering it.” The research into investment habits in the UAE was carried out by AC Nielsen, who interviewed 300 people including nationals and Arab, Asian and Western expatriates.

Expatriates from the United Kingdom were shown to be the largest group of expatriate investors, particularly in the real estate sector. Up to 50 per cent of respondents were looking to invest in the UAE in the coming year.

Of all expatriates polled, Westerners have the highest investment rate across the UAE. The research also showed that nationals prefer investing in the stock market first, then property.

Al Hashimi said: “This is due to the short-term gains that can be made in stocks, whereas property takes a little longer to appreciate, and can also take time to show return on the initial investment. However stocks can be incredibly volatile, whereas with real estate development there is something tangible.”


----------



## turbo

*Inheritence laws in UAE*

I would be obliged if some kind soul could enligten me on the issue of property passing on to the survivor if one of the joint owners dies. I have been told that the law is not 100% clear on this.

I suppose what I'm really saying is what is the best way to buy property without having problems with inheritence issues later on.

And any thoughts on using offshore companies to buy property in UAE?

Cheers

Turbo


----------



## ragga

Turbo, that is what we have done. We have an offshore company setup in JAFZA and it is the sole owner of all the properties / land that we own here. Then whoever you want to own it, just like any other company, the company will issue shares to each member. It is the safest way to do this. In case of death there will be VERY little paperwork and less hassle since all the directors of the company are already established.

If you already have property and want to transfer the property to your corporate name, it can also be eaisly done. Some developers will charge 2% or 1% however most of the ones we have dealt with just do it for free since its our own company. They would not waive the transfer fee if we were selling the property. If you need assistance in setting up the offshore company let me know, I have some really solid accountants here in JAFZA that can give you all the information you need.


----------



## lalaland

Ragga, how much?


----------



## turbo

Thanks for your reply ragga, you have a pm

And another thing, linked to this topic is the issue of minimising tax payable in your country of residence.

Turbo


----------



## glover

at the speed these guys are going, i wouldn't be surprised to see the Promenade finished by July. I live next door in al-Sahab, and unlike JBR, you can tell that their building techniques are geared up toward fast construction. All the buildings are toped out, and cladding is almost 70% done. The platform also looks like way ahead of schedule.


----------



## agressor_agressor

I've got a question. Is there any finished projects for sale? Any pages, suggestions where to see some listings? I would like to buy an apartment and rent it immidiately. Any possibilities?


----------



## IISinbadII

glover said:


> at the speed these guys are going, i wouldn't be surprised to see the Promenade finished by July. I live next door in al-Sahab, and unlike JBR, you can tell that their building techniques are geared up toward fast construction. All the buildings are toped out, and cladding is almost 70% done. The platform also looks like way ahead of schedule.


What do you think about al-Sahab......positives and negatives. Thanks.


----------



## glover

i love my building, Sahab 1 (the round shaped building), panoramic views, floor to ceiling windows, open kitchen layout, the balcony is in an enclave which gives you a lot of privacy, the AC has separate controls in each room. i'm not so thrilled about having the bathrooms all tiled out, would rather have a combination of paint and tile.

Don't like the management company Emrill, and EMAAR acting as a landlord.

would like to see more parking spaces. have a 2-bedroom, but only one designated parking spot.

wish the gym had a steam room and a sauna, and more exercise equipments. i think EMMAR did a poor job in the gym facilities.

Overall, i am very happy here! Love the marina, will love it more in 2 years time!


----------



## mission

Does anyone know any decent apartment for sale in th marina for about 850,000dr ?


----------



## dubaiflo

I have been given 3m Dhs to invest in Dubai.

We need fast completion (at least before 3rd Q 2007) 
and not only good investment in terms of money but also when it comes to sth where u would really want to live.

Looking at F type shoreline right now or Old Town?

anyone suggest more?

what about villas? Arabian Rances? Mirador?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

If I was to live in Dubai, I would want a villa with private pool and garden, but not sure you can get that for 3m ? Alternative would be a shoreline apartment, Al Fattan unit or good JBR unit because of the beach access and parks / walk.


----------



## Krazy

^^ I agree, a good unit in JBR or Fattan Towers would be an excellent investment and great for living too.


----------



## kano

Flo the special apartments at jbr are quite good but expensive...for 3m dhs you would get a three bed facing the palm....the fattan towers may be even better and also larger than jbr.


----------



## Salty

dubaiflo said:


> I have been given 3m Dhs to invest in Dubai.
> 
> We need fast completion (at least before 3rd Q 2007)
> and not only good investment in terms of money but also when it comes to sth where u would really want to live.
> 
> Looking at F type shoreline right now or Old Town?
> 
> anyone suggest more?
> 
> what about villas? Arabian Rances? Mirador?


Pity you are after fast completion with your money Florian. At the moment Palm JA Garden Homes are being advertised for 3.85 - 3.9 million AED. Garden Homes on the PJ are going for 6.8 million AED and above.

Buy a Palm JA Garden Home villa, wait 3 or 4 years, and watch it be worth at least 3 million AED more by the time it is built. In fact inflation will put more on it, as will the fact that these properties will probably be thought nicer on PJA rather than PJ because the distance beween the fronds is much greater (giving a better expanse of water to gaze over).

If you really must have something due to complete very soon you won't be able to afford a sea facing F-type on PJ unless you borrow some more. People seem to be asking 3.5 - 3.6 for these now. Perhaps you should consider a high floor F-type overlooking the canal and the sea beyond. These will shoot up in value once the Golden Mile and the Trump Tower and the rest of the Trunk buildings are developed and get finished.

I could probably be persuaded to sell you my 9th Floor F-type in the Al Tamr building for AED 2.9 million or so ...


----------



## True Blue

Flo, stop being impatient! Buy a water home and wait! These guys are unique and will offer the best in rental returns. No pool to maintain, and you can park your 60 footer right on your door step. Just imagine those spring evenings snoozing on the deck with a cold beer in one hand and a fishing rod in the other.

If you pick the right outlook you could set up your own golf driving range off the deck!! FORE!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Why did I not think of that? :bash


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ True TrueBlue, but PJA is a loooong way out from the central marina / Dubailand area etc. let alone Dubai city/Diera. Of course the waterfront will be a great city when done but thats a long wait too.


----------



## Krazy

when will u ppl learn to keep ur hard earned money away from nakheel hno:


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ i trust in them. as of now there is nothing to be said against Palm Jumeirah.

Thanks for your views guys. i will further enquire on the F typs i have various contacts with palm pirates in Dubai right now.

As for Al Fattan.. i do like them no doubt but we already have a very good 3bed in Dubai Marina so not another one here.

On the other hand i also begin to appreciate Old Town and Old Town island.


----------



## dubaigreen

*Some more question on Dubai investment*

Hi,

I know it has been asked before, but here again for perhaps some updated views of the experts on this forum:

(1) What will happen with the prices of Apartments in Marina, JBR and JLT once many towers are ready at end of 2007 or even into 2008? Any expectation that they will be lowered? So, will it make sense to wait for buying?

(2) Do you know how long apartments are on the market (on average) in these area´s before they are sold (I am on talking 2nd market, no direct sell from developer)?

(3) Do you have more tips on Apartments that will be ready latest in March 07, at least 1400 sqft and below 1000 dirham per sqft ?

thanks
Flex


----------



## eudora

*Interior Design Co.*

Hi 

Can anyone recommend an interior deisgn co in Dubai. There appears to be a lot of companies offering standard turnkey solutions, but really looking for a co. that can deliver 5 star look and feel without it appearing like a hotel.

Please PM if necc.

thanks


----------



## rexdmx

Now what can be said about Dubai real estate? Honestly now it is compared to Hong Kong as the next big place if it isn’t already!! 

Well there are many points which should be taken into considerations



Well, the property sector like many other sector move in cycles are we in the top cycle before a bust or are we just in the beginning of a boom cycle? Now in a boom or a bust, a good investor should be prepared. What we are witnessing is a chain of events



There has actually been a delay in the delivery of apartments which are pushing rents ever higher. If you can recall, at the cityscape, some developers actually had the nerve to push buyers into buying whole cluster of units to sell off after two months for a huge profit. This is speculation of the worst kind. Silly buyers!!! Shouldn’t you be aware that nowadays the discrepancy between the price and the value is not much any more so you cannot take advantage like two years ago?



Do you think the market would crash? Well everyone said so before and it didn’t happen. Why do you think? For me, this reminds me of the housing units in London a while ago. With the increase of interest rates, analysts wondered why the buying didn’t stop as cost of borrowings increased. However, some analysts finally pointed out to the increasing immigrants as a source of fuelling boom.

What does this mean for the potential investor? I would advice you if you are indeed interested in being part of the real estate market, you should first of all concentrate on paying your liabilities if you have any. For those with enough cash, I said earlier focus on value investments because there are still some with either splendid locations or excellent prices where the discrepancy between price and value is very high. Consider buying a town house for Aed 500 000? Lol



What would save us? Well the cost of mortgages which is not usually taken into consideration would be of great help as overseas companies set up camp here which heats up competition. By the way, I am still waiting for the report from the Federal Reserve regarding interest rates.



With so many developments being revealed everyday, what is an investor to do? Focus on the business model of your portfolio and not of the follies of others in the market so that even in a sharp correction, you know you have bought into a good investment.



Booms do not usually collapse until people stop talking about it!! So while others keep talking about a bust, look for undervalued and I repeat undervalued assets with which to make investments.


----------



## IISinbadII

eudora said:


> Can anyone recommend an interior deisgn co in Dubai. There appears to be a lot of companies offering standard turnkey solutions, but really looking for a co. that can deliver 5 star look and feel without it appearing like a hotel.
> 
> Please PM if necc.


I was told that interior deisgning for a 1 BR apartment costs appx. AED 20,000 to 25,000 (including furniture). What are the rates for these standard _turnkey_ solutions. Thanks.


----------



## Imre

rental prices are still going up... today I just saw somebody rented out a studio apartment of Marina Diamond 2 for 70.000 dhs/year ...


----------



## dubaigreen

*"Al Shera" Tower*

Hi,
Has anyone more info on the "Al Shera" tower in JLT? Is this tower ready? Is it sold out? How can I buy direct from the developer (tried to find web-site)? Etc..
Thanks if you know more
Flex


----------



## dubaiflo

i doubt it is ready and i am not sure about sales. 

developer is Deyaar afaik.. www.deyaar.ae

it is not listed on their site as of now.


----------



## docc

Flo,

If you wan't maximum rental yields along with long-term price appreciation, i would suggest that you purchase within the Burj Dubai development. Thats is one place where prices will skyrocket once BD and Dubai mall are built and at the same time will provide maximum rental yields. Since it is within a commercial cum residential district, you will never have to worry about your apartment being empty. In places like the Marina etc, there will be an overflow of apartments (long term) and you might have trouble unless you have one of those really chic places (which cost more than 5-6M).

I have said it a hundred times before and will say the same again....best investment in Dubai without doubt is the BD development.


----------



## Krazy

^^ I agree, and at present, south ridge and burj views are two really good projects to invest in besides old town


----------



## sameerl

Guys,

Has anybody considered Greeen Community West family villas or the villa project in DubaiLand? GC West villas are trading at a little over aed 600 psf; when compared to the Ranches or Meadows, which are at AED 1000 psf, this appears to be a steal. Marbella villas in Dubailand (developed by Dubai Properties) are also trading at similar psf levels, and should be considered.


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ Green community is AWESOME!! Go for it the villas are good but remember this is not freehold unlike Dubailand and Emirates Living.

Thanks guys.

I am currently looking into Old Town Island, Bahar and Attareen.

I think Burj Views are too far from the places to be same goes for south ridge.

I'd prefer residences phase 2 and will look into this.

F-Types in PJ are currently 3.5m Dhs, i am sure they will appreciated a little bit more, but the quality won't be too good (launch price was only 1.6m Dhs or sth) and apart from this maintenance will be high.
We are looking into smaller and extremely cheaper D- Type also.

Of course my family would love The Palm but i also think Burj Dubai is AT LEAST equal value for money.


----------



## Krazy

^^ the reason I suggest south ridge is because it was recently launched so there is a chance that you can still buy off emaar instead of secondary market. Also the views for south ridge will probably be the best in BD Downtown, especially if you have a higher floor overlooking the old town and mighty BD.

@sameerl, keep in mind the low prices of GC is because they are leasehold and not freehold.


----------



## sameerl

Agreed thats the reason but two factors to keep in mind:

1) UP is stating that they are also allowing lands department title deed in the naer future; this automatically implies freehold status. UP sales reps are saying that official announcements are expected shortly

2) How do you justify the discount in the Dubai Villa project? That is freehold.


----------



## Tractor

Emaar are selling everything through: http://www.hamptonsuae.com/ now so check their site out.


----------



## Allam

*Why in the world you rent a house in Dubai when you can easily buy it.*

Rental costs are the key reason to buy in Dubai
Soaring rental costs this year have encouraged more expatriates to buy in Dubai. With the total cost of buying a house on a mortgage now lower than renting, is this a compelling argument? It depends on how long you intend to stay and what happens to the local real estate market.

For somebody intending to make Dubai their long-term home then buying is down to three factors: saving on rent; using a house as a savings policy; and the pleasure of being able to do what you want with your own home, subject only to planning constraints. 

Let us take a concrete example here, and homes in the Dubai Marina are made of the stuff. 

Say you buy a typical two-bed apartment for AED 1,200,000 and take-up an 90 % interest-only mortgage at 6% over 15 years, this gives you a monthly mortgage repayment of roughly AED 12,500, plus you will have AED 500 in service charge and municipal tax of around AED 500, making a total of AED 13,500. 

Of course you have to find your 10 % AED 120,000 down payment; in some cases 3 % = AED 36,000.
AED 180,000 in rent
Now if you were renting the same apartment the rental cost would be around AED 180,000 or AED 15,000 per month. Consider then the cost of renting over a five-year period. You would pay out around AED 200,000, if rents do not rise which after the new law 7 % plus each year is quite an assumption. So you'll be paying AED 1,000,000 in the next 5 years.


What about a fall in house prices? Clearly if apartment prices fell significantly in the five-year period then you would be no better off than if you paid rent over this period. But the saving on rent is a cushion to a limited extent against falling prices. 

But it is not more likely that in a dynamic economy like Dubai that a more optimistic scenario will emerge after five years, whatever the ups and downs of the local economy? It might be that rents continue to rise, and that house prices also increase at least for some of these years. 
Inflation helps cut debt
There is also the impact of inflation to consider on buying a fixed asset like a house. When inflation rises costs go up for consumers, and eventually salaries just have to follow. The overall level of prices and salaries therefore goes up. 

However, your debt is fixed at today's prices. Thus as inflation accelerates the debt falls in real terms - as every other cost rises while debt is fixed. 

Of course, this may also push up interest rates and cause monthly payments on a mortgage to rise. But then again Dubai mortgage rates are presently high by comparison to US dollar mortgages, and this gap should narrow as the market develops. 

In short, seeing a house as a saving's policy and an investment in the future of Dubai, quite apart from providing a roof over your head is a sensible approach. And it is the phenomenal expenditure on rent that is the best reason to buy in Dubai, not any assumption about capital growth. 

Interestingly in most global real estate markets it is the other way around: people buy for capital growth and not to save on rent - indeed it always costs more to buy than rent - and that is a sign that these markets do not offer great prospects to buyers. Dubai property, on the contrary, is relatively cheap. 
Oversupply and prices
One final caveat, if the Dubai real estate market suffered from chronic oversupply and prices plummeted to more than 50% of current valuations then this argument would not stack up. It would then be better to rent in anticipation of a crash. 

However, Arab property investors have a tendency to sit tight in a downturn, and are not usually highly leveraged as in other global markets, and so can afford to ride out the downturns. This produces an unusual kind of property market in which buildings can stand empty without impacting on property prices. 

Again in such a market paying down a mortgage with money saved on rents is a sensible approach to the cost of living in Dubai. Perhaps expatriates sitting on the sidelines waiting for a crash will still be there in five years time, while today's owners will have paid down a large chunk of their mortgage.
And don't forget that by doing that you'll be participating in changing the market and send a message to those greedy landlords to put down the renting prices as they will have no other solution except putting it down to seduce enters to come back.


----------



## GoDubai!

Allam said:


> Say you buy a typical one-bed apartment for AED 1,200,000 and take-up an 90 % interest-only mortgage at 6% over 15 years, this gives you a monthly mortgage repayment of roughly AED 12,500, plus you will have AED 500 in service charge and municipal tax of around AED 500, making a total of AED 13,500.
> 
> Of course you have to find your 10 % AED 120,000 down payment; in some cases 3 % = AED 36,000.
> AED 180,000 in rent
> Now if you were renting the same apartment the rental cost would be around AED 180,000 or AED 15,000 per month.


AED 180,000 would be an outlandish amount for anyone to pay or charge in rent on a typcial 1-bedroom apartment in DM. The going rate is about half that, which means at rental rates one could own their unit in about 10 years, not 5.


----------



## DubaiDream

Guys, anyone know where I can get a list of current and forthcoming freehold villa developments in Dubai, Thanks


----------



## IISinbadII

docc said:


> If you wan't maximum rental yields along with long-term price appreciation, i would suggest that you purchase within the Burj Dubai development. Thats is one place where prices will skyrocket once BD and Dubai mall are built and at the same time will provide maximum rental yields. Since it is within a commercial cum residential district, you will never have to worry about your apartment being empty. In places like the Marina etc, there will be an overflow of apartments (long term) and you might have trouble unless you have one of those really chic places (which cost more than 5-6M).
> 
> I have said it a hundred times before and will say the same again....best investment in Dubai without doubt is the BD development.


Very well said. 

Commercial, Residential, Tallest Tower (Burj - a tourist attraction), Mall, Old Dubai (Bur Dubai - next door), New Dubai (Sheykh Zayed Road), Business area, Metro...........you get it all at Burj Complex. As someone has said, the only thing missing is the beach.


----------



## IISinbadII

Tractor said:


> Emaar are selling everything through: http://www.hamptonsuae.com/ now so check their site out.


I searched for 1 BR apartment in Burj and found only two and both are ready. So how can you say that Emaar are selling everything through this site?


----------



## dubaigreen

Hi,
What would be an alternative for JBR/Beach-way of living. What is the closest development outside JBR (but not too far away from Internet city) where you can enjoy beach lifestyle for a reasonable price (so, I exclude the palms). Are these developments ready?
thanks
Flex


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> ^^ I agree, and at present, south ridge and burj views are two really good projects to invest in besides old town
> 
> the reason I suggest south ridge is because it was recently launched so there is a chance that you can still buy off emaar instead of secondary market. Also the views for south ridge will probably be the best in BD Downtown, especially if you have a higher floor overlooking the old town and mighty BD.


Dear Krazy, 

I am seriously thinking of buying in Burj Complex. Any idea how much will be the cost of a 1 BR apartment in South Ridge with view buying off Emaar. Also how much will be a similar apartment but without view. Thanks.


----------



## IISinbadII

dubaigreen said:


> Hi,
> What would be an alternative for JBR/Beach-way of living. What is the closest development outside JBR (but not too far away from Internet city) where you can enjoy beach lifestyle for a reasonable price (so, I exclude the palms). Are these developments ready?
> thanks
> Flex


Dubai Marina, you can possibly walk to the beach from Marina.....


----------



## dubaigreen

IISinbadII said:


> Dubai Marina, you can possibly walk to the beach from Marina.....


Ok, only if you pay for beach clubs (which is expensive). What other developments are there, perhaps further into Jebel Ali, etc.. ?

Flex


----------



## dubaigreen

docc said:


> Flo,
> 
> If you wan't maximum rental yields along with long-term price appreciation, i would suggest that you purchase within the Burj Dubai development. Thats is one place where prices will skyrocket once BD and Dubai mall are built and at the same time will provide maximum rental yields. Since it is within a commercial cum residential district, you will never have to worry about your apartment being empty. In places like the Marina etc, there will be an overflow of apartments (long term) and you might have trouble unless you have one of those really chic places (which cost more than 5-6M).
> 
> I have said it a hundred times before and will say the same again....best investment in Dubai without doubt is the BD development.


What towers would you recommend that are ready for possession in March/April 2007 and still are reasonable priced (2 bed room).

thanks
Flex


----------



## IISinbadII

dubaigreen said:


> What other developments are there, perhaps further into Jebel Ali, etc.. ?


On one side JBR/Marina you have the Power plants and on the other the Palaces. So the area seems to be limited. No wonder the prices are so high.


----------



## dubaigreen

IISinbadII said:


> On one side JBR/Marina you have the Power plants and on the other the Palaces. So the area seems to be limited. No wonder the prices are so high.


What beach-life developments if you allow 30 to 45 minutes driving away from Internet city?


----------



## HarryKane

Dubai_Steve said:


> Must be the best investment then. Prices should double surely on completion when it is in the world news all the time. Can't see any other property doubling in value over the next few years in Dubai.


A few months ago, some units were even being sold at a loss. Apparently, the prevailing sentiment is that the prices on these are currently inflated. Anyone know what firm has a good stock of these for sale so we can see exactly what the deal is?


----------



## Richard Head

dubaiflo said:


> http://www.remaxunlimiteddubai.com/public/listingSingle.do?listing.listingID=229520
> 
> what do you think? worth it?
> 
> does not have special location though, i mean golf course or park facing..


Flo,

3324 square feet is Saheel type 7, as per my PM I know because I have one. These are not 4 bed, somone is stretching a point and including maids room as a 4th bedroom. Neither are they 3.5 bath, master bed is en suite, family bathroom also upstairs, downstairs there is a toilet and the maid has a toilet. A little bit of exaggeration here.

You could put that pool in for less than 100k. Still say mine is a better deal if you look at plot size (everything is negotiable!!). You won't get one with a golf course view, only the 5 beds have that. 

Good luck

Richard


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ thanks again. well we are considering this.. 

i still have to talk to my family regarding our budget. 

as for the exaggeration.. palm pirates... we are used to that but remax is quite good. 

thanks for your pm again, i will contact you as soon as things are cleared.

http://www.remaxunlimiteddubai.com/public/listingSingle.do?listing.listingID=505867

we are looking into this one now. it is type 8 which is much better.


----------



## Richard Head

dubaiflo said:


> ^^ thanks again. well we are considering this..
> 
> i still have to talk to my family regarding our budget.
> 
> as for the exaggeration.. palm pirates... we are used to that but remax is quite good.
> 
> thanks for your pm again, i will contact you as soon as things are cleared.
> 
> http://www.remaxunlimiteddubai.com/public/listingSingle.do?listing.listingID=505867
> 
> we are looking into this one now. it is type 8 which is much better.


Type 8 is nice, agreed, apart from the pointless fireplace hno: A bit smaller than a 7 but you probably wouldn't notice 158 square feet extra. Tiny little plot though, which is why they don't tell you the Sq ft, and also why you can only take 2 steps from the patio doors before you fall in the pool !! Also looks like it might back onto another row of Villas which explains the row of trees to prevent being overlooked. Note the price is excluding fees and probably agents commission, so likely this will cost you 3.6 all in. 

All in all not the great deal it initially looks, you'll find plenty of better options if you look around, and with the 100-200k you can save by buying without a pool, you get a bigger plot and can easily afford a bigger pool to your own design.

Sorry, sales pitch over.............................


----------



## smussuw

The ministry of economy has accepted a demand from Nakheel changing its' capital budget from 100 million to *82 billion*.


----------



## dubaifirst

Buy in the Trident Grand Residence, prices will double in 3 years time.


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ well i also considered that but .. they want completion now..


otherwise i'd love it, i loved it from the beginning.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ For AED 3m you could buy 2 x 2 bed marina facing apartments in Marina Heights Tower. Would give the best rental return. Will still have a great view in 01 apartments no matter what goes in front.


----------



## docc

smussuw said:


> The ministry of economy has accepted a demand from Nakheel changing its' capital budget from 100 million to *82 billion*.


What?!?!


----------



## Krazy

^^ that's right.. i read it too


----------



## HarryKane

dubaifirst said:


> Buy in the Trident Grand Residence, prices will double in 3 years time.


Does your crystal ball also say when the bubble will burst?


----------



## Farhad007

*which tower to choose for buying*

Hi everybody!
I am new and have a simple question.How should I choose the best residence tower.What do you think about V3 and Y2(lakeshore tower)?
Thanks!


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ i'm with him on that.. they might not double but TGR is DEFINETLY worth it.

apart from that.. nakheel might also use it for overseas investment, nothing to fear


----------



## dubaifirst

HarryKane said:


> Does your crystal ball also say when the bubble will burst?


Dubai property prices can only go up!


----------



## True Blue

dubaifirst said:


> Dubai property prices can only go up!


You need to study economics, in particular the law of supply and demand! 

You should measure the possibility that one day the demand for property may be satisfied. After years of price hikes in Spain, prices are now starting to fall.


----------



## arfie

True Blue said:


> You need to study economics, in particular the law of supply and demand!
> 
> You should measure the possibility that one day the demand for property may be satisfied. After years of price hikes in Spain, prices are now starting to fall.


Only in certain areas will prices go up in Dubai as there is alot of options for consumers to choose from. 

The key question is what will the rental market be like in 2-3 yrs. Will all the towers be easily be rentable ?


----------



## dubaiflo

honestly the situation in the rental market nowadays (while some towers are already completed) makes me feel as long as you bought reasonable you won't have problem in renting your property out.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The question of being able to rent is a good one. One thing to consider is that when a new tower is completed not to expect to be able to rent your apartment in it immediately. Some of the taller towers have many hundreds of units all being released at the same time and 50% of the owners will want to rent them out to pay their expenses. I doubt there will be any kind of waiting list so it could take many months before you get a tenant unless you have a very good location in the building or are lucky. 

It is also difficult to decide if there will be enough of a tourist market that would be interested in apartments other than JBR. Somehow I doubt it and you will have to rent long term contracts instead which has the downside of not being able to use your own apartment until you have paid of your mortgage.


----------



## arfie

Agree with Dubai Steve JBR will be great for tourists. They may look ugly but great location and obviously tourists want beach access. Some of the towers in the marina will be good for short term rental but very few.

Once Dubai land is up and running apartments there will be good for letting out to big families.


----------



## dubaifirst

True Blue said:


> You need to study economics, in particular the law of supply and demand!
> 
> You should measure the possibility that one day the demand for property may be satisfied. After years of price hikes in Spain, prices are now starting to fall.


But Dubai,s market is different from Spain, the majority of buyers in Dubai are cash buyers . I agree with arife when the marina and dubailand are completed prices will soar. A bubble is just not going to happen in Dubai. Don,t wait to buy , buy and wait!


----------



## carpetking

Yes buy and earn much money in the next years


----------



## worried1

*Condo Hotels are better*

Most of these are guaranteeing 8% to 10% for the first 3 years and then sharing the profits.

Does this not make better business sense and also reduce risk?

:cheers:


----------



## carpetking

If you buy an apartment you can rent it out or sell it in a few years.

But YOU can do that and not a company who do it for you !

This is better i think.


----------



## mackie1964

arfie said:


> Some of the towers in the marina will be good for short term rental but very few.


Timeplace and the Torch


----------



## dubaiflo

Welcome to the forum. 

make sure you ask questions related to your investment http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=419153&page=8

in this thread.

As for your question, it depends on how you plan to use the apartment, what is your budget etc.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

mackie1964 said:


> Timeplace and the Torch


What do you think makes a marina tower suitable for short term lets, just location or any other factors?


----------



## dubaiflo

location, similar to the palm pirates u will be able to claim beach access.

apart from the usual marina advantages.. being the fact this is just a great city within a city and waterfront.. love it.


----------



## Morrismarina

mackie1964 said:


> Timeplace and the Torch


Hey Mackie you forgot the best one...how about BayCentral ?? Surely much better than these two as it will have the 5 star hotel ??


----------



## arfie

Morrismarina said:


> Hey Mackie you forgot the best one...how about BayCentral ?? Surely much better than these two as it will have the 5 star hotel ??


Time will tell if BC is better than the Torch and Timeplace.


----------



## Morrismarina

arfie said:


> Time will tell if BC is better than the Torch and Timeplace.


Well that's very informative......many thanks.


----------



## mission

TIMEPLACE ROCKS


----------



## mackie1964

Morrismarina said:


> Hey Mackie you forgot the best one...how about BayCentral ?? Surely much better than these two as it will have the 5 star hotel ??


Sure & Bay Central. I visited the site last week with DS.

The best has got to be the one right in front of my balcony in the Torch, fantastic location. I took a boat ride at 11PM a few nights back and it is awesome approaching this area of the Marina. 

Location and planning helps but I think you have to be lucky more than anything else. It also helps that if you have a good agent. I intend in enjoying the ride whatever the future brings.


----------



## mission

mackie1964 said:


> Sure & Bay Central. I visited the site last week with DS.
> 
> The best has got to be the one right in front of my balcony in the Torch, fantastic location. I took a boat ride at 11PM a few nights back and it is awesome approaching this area of the Marina.
> 
> Location and planning helps but I think you have to be lucky more than anything else. It also helps that if you have a good agent. I intend in enjoying the ride whatever the future brings.




You still in Dubai? What floor is TP on?


----------



## Morrismarina

mission said:


> TIMEPLACE ROCKS


I agree TT & TP & BC all rock :dj:


----------



## mackie1964

The 30th Floor, I returned to the sunny warm England yesterday.

Check your PM Mission I have answered your questions.


----------



## Krazy

can we stop with the ego boosting posts for each one's tower...


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ yeah because MARINASCAPE is the best of em all anyway


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Don't worry Krazy, the Promenade rocks too! 

I would put them in this order

Marinascape
Torch
Bay Central
Promenade
Timeplace


----------



## dubaifirst

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Don't worry Krazy, the Promenade rocks too!
> 
> I would put them in this order
> 
> Marinascape
> Torch
> Bay Central
> Promenade
> Timeplace



I would put TGR first.


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ or i would at least put TGR in it.

put then infinity is also missing.. and al fattan..

it is not so easy guys, so leave it


----------



## dubaiflo

Market cap of real estate firms at $75b - UAE



Khaleej Times - 13/01/2007



(MENAFN - Khaleej Times) Driven by the exponential growth of UAE's property sector, the listed real estate companies in the GCC increased their market capitalisation to $75 billion or 6.7 per cent of the region's total market cap last year.

Led by the UAE, whose real estate companies boosted their market cap to $41.464 billion, this buoyancy was reflected across all GCC property markets. Saudi Arabian real estate companies contributed $17.716 billion to emerge as the second most vibrant growth market in the region.

According to a recent report on behalf of IREF Jordan, the GCC's real estate sector companies' market cap accounted for 2.7 per cent of total the region GDP. "It is interesting to note that Saudi Arabian capital accounts for the vast majority of this investment in the UAE as well as in neighbouring GCC states such as Bahrain," it added.

Quoting Global Research, the report said the property boom, on an unparalleled scale, is driven by the GCC region's record growth in private liquidly which is estimated at $1.5 trillion, accounting for more than 50 per cent of the Middle East and North Africa region's total of $2.3 trillion. 

"The contribution of the real estate sector to the GCC region's GDP, which totalled $27,274 million in 2004, or 5.8 per cent of GDP, continues to grow at a phenomenal pace," the report said.

The report noted that the real estate market boom in the Middle East is not only confined to the GCC states but also to emerging markets such as Jordan and Turkey. In Jordan, according to Global Research in Kuwait, real estate constituted 4.5 per cent of GDP in 2005, and has attracted a growing portfolio of regional and international investments over the last few years. 

In Istanbul, a Dubai-based investment group is building the multi-billion dollar Istanbul Tower, destined to become the country's tallest building. Gulf investors are also some of the most active players in the Turkey's realty market.

According to the report, a major feature of the regional real estate market is Islamic real estate financing and investment, which over the last few years has emerged as an exciting new component of the regional and global realty sector. "This has driven cutting edge innovations in real estate structures in Sukuk (Islamic bonds or trust certificates); asset securitisation; construction finance; social housing and mortgages."

"An interesting feature of the growth dynamics in the Middle East real estate sector is that there is a move away from the primary rental market and a greater focus on commercial property development, speculative property purchases and real estate investment funds, which for instance increased to $2 billion in 2004 from only $42 million in 2002," it said.

Noting that the growth trend of real estate investments is projected to continue over the next few years for several reasons, the report said one of the most promising market indicators is that 36 per cent of the Middle East population is under the age of 15. "This alone suggests huge future demand for housing stock. High quality office space is also in short supply."

It said the projected magnitude of the capital flows in the GCC economies over the next few years is "mind-boggling." This massive liquidity in the market has also generated huge private wealth which is continuously in search of value added investment opportunities both at home and abroad.

"Saudi Arabian and Gulf investors are emerging as some of the top investors in real estate assets in traditional markets such as the US and UK, and in emerging regional markets such as Jordan, Egypt, Turkey and Lebanon. Gulf investment in the commercial property market has increased from 4 per cent in 2004 to 11 per cent last year and this trend is projected to increase over the next few years. In addition, as highlighted by recent transactions, investment savvy GCC investors are exploring new opportunities in emerging new markets such as India; China; Japan and Eastern Europe," the report said.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Is Dubai still a good deal?*

For those of you who think that Dubai’s property market has turned into a bubble waiting to burst, here’s a thought: it might not. Certainly, property prices have soared in recent years and many people think it is time for the market to fall - sharply. But increasingly, more experts are starting to believe that there isn’t enough evidence to elevate property prices in the emirate to bubble status just yet. So is buying property in Dubai still a good deal? 

The answer is yes, if you go by what the ‘sunny-side’ market experts have to say. “Ten years from now, in 2017, property in Dubai will be much more expensive that it is now,” is the prediction from Danial Husain, vice-president, Dubai Lagoon. “Conservatively speaking, I believe property prices in 2017 should be at least 50 per cent higher from where they are today.” Dubai Lagoon is one of the emirate’s largest private sector real-estate projects under development. Located in Dubai Investment Park, the three-billion-dirham project comprises 53 residential buildings spread across 40 acres - equivalent to the size of about 40 football fields. Divided into two phases, the whole project is set to be completed by June 2008. With such a large project on his hands, it is possible to dismiss Husain’s optimism simply as a way of talking up the market. But he’s quick to reject the idea, pointing to the buyer response to the Lagoon project as proof that developers are not in chase of a dwindling catch: “We’ve already sold about 80 per cent of our project,” he says.

However, he does admit that the developers have had some moments of doubt. When the project w as first launched, industry consultants warned Husain not to expect to sell more than three apartments a day. As it turned out, the project sold all its Phase I apartments - 1,752 of them - in 52 days - making it an average of 31 apartments sold every day. That experience seems to have convinced Husain that Dubai’s property market is not bursting at the seams - not yet anyway. “This market still has a real need for affordable housing,” he argues. “About 80 per cent of projects currently under development are intended for upmarket buyers and investors looking to park their money.” But with the average salary of the Dubai income-earner ranging between dhs8,000 and dhs10,000, there is still strong demand for ‘real homes for real people’, says Husain, adding that that will keep prices buoyant. “Going ahead, I see property prices increasing by ten to 15 per cent a year.” Not s urprisingly, he’s also upbeat about Dubai Lagoon’s prospects: “I believe, on a conservative estimate, that on completion, its prices will go 30-35 per cent higher from where they are today.” 

The prospect of easing mortgage rates is another reason why Husain believes demand is not in danger of collapsing any time soon. “Mortgage rates are extremely high,” says Husain. “As more competition comes into the market and the mortgage market matures, these rates will drop substantially and it will be easier to get mortgages. This will increase demand and prices.” Nevertheless, rising prices bring their own set of problems to developers, acknowledges Husain. “Contractors in Dubai are facing huge demand from all ends. Resources are extremely tied up.” According to a report by industry consultants EC Harris, constructions costs in Dubai jumped by 28 per cent in the first eight months of 2006. Copper prices rose by a hefty 66 per cent during the same period while cement prices gained ten per cent. Labour costs also experienced a 20 per cent leap. Indeed, Dubai Lagoon opted to bring in construction experts from Thailand and Myanmar to ease the financial pressures of constructing. “Because of the huge demand in Dubai, using foreign contractors ends up being more financially viable,” explains Husain. “They also have more experience than local contractors. They even source their supplies of steel, cement and other materials from the global market and that allows better rates and quality.”

Yet the pain of rising prices - for developers and buyers - is unlikely to curb the passion for investing in Dubai’s property market, says Husain, who continues to be optimistic about the city. There really is no mystery to Dubai’s appeal, he says: the emirate offers tax-free status for companies and individuals; good investment returns; is relatively crime-free; and promises a good standard of living. All this will continue to attract foreign workers to come and live here. “Over the next two years, 180,000 to 200,000 new housing units will come into the market. Still, demand will stay extremely strong due to an influx of new expatriates,” adds Husain. Besides, obsessing about high prices misses half the story. “In any real estate market in the world, the key criteria for investing is the rental yield. And Dubai still offers very good rental yields,” says Husain. Rental yields refer to what a landlord can expect to receive in rent, usually in a year, expressed as a percentage of the purchase price of the property.

“Dubai still offers rental yields of eight to 15 per cent, tax-free. This is much higher than anywhere in the world. In developed countries, average rental yields range between two and three per cent, after tax,” points out Husain. “Dubai is still a great place to invest in.” And that’s why Dubai still remains the ‘happening’ city for real-estate investors and second-home buyers. It’s crazy, yes, but it’s the kind of crazy we may have to live with, it seems.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ So In addition to at least a 50% price increase in the next 10 years you can also expect the revaluation of the AED to give you 20% increase around 2010/2011. Therefore I would expect a total gain of around 100% within the next 10 years from today's prices across the board. Some areas will also increase more because of demand in that specific area, perhaps the marina or burj dubai areas depending on how the lifestyle and desirability turns out there.


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ uhhhhhhhhhh though prediction there.

i wouldn't put my money on what that guy says.
on the other hand i'm also optimistic when it comes to property prices, as you said it all depends on how the situation develops, this will make some locations and towers more desirable than others.

but we are talking about 2020 in the world's fastest growing city. everything could happen.


----------



## worried1

*50% in 10 years is peanuts*

50% in 10 years is less than 5% compounded, you can get more than 5% in US treasuries or even a Fixed Deposit.


----------



## worried1

*Yellow Bird*



Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ So In addition to at least a 50% price increase in the next 10 years you can also expect the revaluation of the AED to give you 20% increase around 2010/2011. Therefore I would expect a total gain of around 100% within the next 10 years from today's prices across the board. Some areas will also increase more because of demand in that specific area, perhaps the marina or burj dubai areas depending on how the lifestyle and desirability turns out there.


You must be Yellow_Bird on singingpig.co.uk under Overseas and dubai:nuts:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

worried1 said:


> 50% in 10 years is less than 5% compounded, you can get more than 5% in US treasuries or even a Fixed Deposit.


But not 50%+ with high gearing.

for example,

buy an apartment worth £300k now for £60k deposit (remortgage uk house to get funds, negligable repayment difference). Wait 10 years

at 50% gain apartment would be worth £450 or 7.5 times your orginal investment.

at 100% gain apartment would be worth £600k or 10 times your orginal investment.

So £600k for just doing a few hours paper work is not bad.


----------



## Smergel

*Supply - Demand*

Well it all comes down to supply - demand.

There will be a lot of apartments ready in the future but they can all be "consumed" by the growing population.

My concern is just wether this growing population will happen. Dubai hopes to become a businesshub or what you call it. Hope that foreign companies open up daughter companies etc and then need employees. Are we seeing this?
I mean CNN, IBM, Oracle, Siemens etc are already in Dubai but are there coming new ones?

If 2 million people are moving to Dubai then Im not scared about the supply of apartments. Does anyone have an idea about that Dubai will succeed in attracting companies to Dubai?

I spoke with a bankman. He suddenly said "Dubai is talking about growth but we are not ready for it" 

What do you guys think?


----------



## Morrismarina

Interesting article Steve.

Another way of looking at this is to take Mr Hussain's lowest projection of 10% price growth per year. Say you buy an apartment now for AED 1m at 10% compound growth over 7 years will be worth 1.94m (nearly double). Then assume the dollar gains 20% against sterling as it is incredibly weak at the moment, you'd effectively be selling at 2.3m, giving a 130% profit in just 7 years. (Of course if you look at the deposit/gearing angle as you did then profit % is much more). So my Marina apartment value could go up 130% in 7 years and to be fair 10% price increase per annum is not unrealistic.
Then factor in the fact that there's no capital gains tax in Dubai and there's effectively another 40% gain !! (Yes I know, I'd still have to declare and pay UK CGT but I could be living in Dubai by then, so my profit could potentially all be tax free). 
Now compare this will buying in say Eastern Europe, where you'd be paying 20% VAT on your purchase price, plus your legal fees on top and then CGT when you sell. IMO buying off-plan in Dubai wins every time.


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ i think those 10% yearly gain rates are unrealistic. 



worried1 said:


> 50% in 10 years is less than 5% compounded, you can get more than 5% in US treasuries or even a Fixed Deposit.


c'mon.. but you own a home that way or you can rent it out for another 8-15% yearly return.


----------



## dubaifirst

I agree with Morrismarina. Where else in the world would you get this sort of return for your money?


----------



## worried1

*Gearing Good or Bad*



Dubai_Steve said:


> But not 50%+ with high gearing.
> 
> for example,
> 
> buy an apartment worth £300k now for £60k deposit (remortgage uk house to get funds, negligable repayment difference). Wait 10 years
> 
> at 50% gain apartment would be worth £450 or 7.5 times your orginal investment.
> 
> at 100% gain apartment would be worth £600k or 10 times your orginal investment.
> 
> So £600k for just doing a few hours paper work is not bad.


Gearing can also affect you adveresely. If prices go down, your 60K could become zero in a hurry.

Also your are assuming 100% occupancy, minor expenses and a yield higher than your mortgage interest rate during the duration. 

So if someone wants to play the gearing game and take risks, the easiest is buying long term treasury futures.


----------



## worried1

*5% compounded*



dubaiflo said:


> ^^ i think those 10% yearly gain rates are unrealistic.
> 
> 
> 
> c'mon.. but you own a home that way or you can rent it out for another 8-15% yearly return.


Well 5% compounded in a "risky" market ???? When the long term appreciation in New York, Boston, San Francisco, LOs Angeles etc is 7%.

I am not sure about UK ( London etc) but it could also be over 5% compounded.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

worried1 said:


> Gearing can also affect you adveresely. If prices go down, your 60K could become zero in a hurry.
> 
> Also your are assuming 100% occupancy, minor expenses and a yield higher than your mortgage interest rate during the duration.
> 
> So if someone wants to play the gearing game and take risks, the easiest is buying long term treasury futures.


If prices go down your 300K property may be worth 250K at the worst. In which case your 60K becomes 250K after 10 years or 4.17 times your original investment. Rental yields are between 8 and 15% so there is little chance of the running of the property costing you anything at all. This is the advantage of Dubai over London because the rental yields will protect you from costs, so even in a loss making capital gain situation, which would not happen, you still make an extremely good return on your investment.

Remember also that currency adjustment will give you a 20% boost on the 300K property value to 360K so there is almost nil chance of the capital value going down in sterling.

But come on, can you serioursly believe a good sea or marina view apartment in dubai marina will be worth less than now in 10 years time!


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ you deserve your username.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

One thing to consider then in order to protect yourself financially is to look for little money down on your investment with no payments until completion and a good rental return.


----------



## worried1

*Foreign Currency*



Dubai_Steve said:


> If prices go down your 300K property may be worth 250K at the worst. In which case your 60K becomes 250K after 10 years or 4.17 times your original investment. Rental yields are between 8 and 15% so there is little chance of the running of the property costing you anything at all. This is the advantage of Dubai over London because the rental yields will protect you from costs, so even in a loss making capital gain situation, which would not happen, you still make an extremely good return on your investment.
> 
> Remember also that currency adjustment will give you a 20% boost on the 300K property value to 360K so there is almost nil chance of the capital value going down in sterling.
> 
> But come on, can you serioursly believe a good sea or marina view apartment in dubai marina will be worth less than now in 10 years time!


OK, but I would not bet the ranch on Dubai. A portion of your assests for speculation is fine. Now foreign currency. Dubai is high inflation. Generally inflation causes a currency to depriciate. However, if one is so confident of a 20% currency appreciation, one can play the currency game and with the right amount of leverage make thousands of percentage points.

Talking about rental yields and there have been a lot of posts on this board indicating the probability of rental yields comming down as supply catches or overtakes demand. So rental yields in all probability are at the highest now and on their way down.

Also if the most optimistic scenario a CEO can come up is 5%, then truth generally lies lower.:cheers:


----------



## DubaiMarina

What is the best place to advertise your rental apartment if you don´t want to use agent?


----------



## Krazy

^^ depends on which area. I would suggest using an agent though, your job is easier and u get a good price.

From what I've heard, MD2 1 bedroom apartments are being rented out for 70K


----------



## Morrismarina

worried1 said:


> OK, but I would not bet the ranch on Dubai. A portion of your assests for speculation is fine. Now foreign currency. Dubai is high inflation. Generally inflation causes a currency to depriciate. However, if one is so confident of a 20% currency appreciation, one can play the currency game and with the right amount of leverage make thousands of percentage points.
> 
> Talking about rental yields and there have been a lot of posts on this board indicating the probability of rental yields comming down as supply catches or overtakes demand. So rental yields in all probability are at the highest now and on their way down.
> 
> Also if the most optimistic scenario a CEO can come up is 5%, then truth generally lies lower.:cheers:



I agree, rental "yields" are on their way down, this of course has got to happen mathematically when prices increase. The important thing is to buy now as Dubai property is still very cheap IMO.
I also agree that high inflation should cause a currency to depreciate and Dubai has high inflation. However this is of no direct relevance to the Dirham, as the exchange rate is fixed to the US dollar and hence it's US inflation that matters.


----------



## lovedubai

Interesting article - not sure if this is the right place to post it, but couldn't think where else.

Dubai - The Largest Development Project in the World! 

As we prepared to return home after a weeklong study tour in Dubai, Realcomm NextGen Tour delegates were asked to share their thoughts on the trip and how they were planning to describe what they had seen to their friends, family and business associates back home. Aside from their favorite projects or biggest concerns, almost every delegate agreed that describing the scope, scale and speed of development in Dubai would be almost impossible -- it is truly something one must see firsthand to believe! 

As the plane neared Dubai International Airport, our delegates were tired from the long trip but anxious to experience this extraordinary city. With so many stories of rampant growth and extreme projects, no one knew quite what to expect. There was some anxiety, due in large part to the constant news stories of violence in the Middle East, but everyone relaxed when we arrived at one of the most sophisticated airports in the world. In fact, Dubai International Airport ranked 9th in the World Airport Awards (not one US airport ranked in the top 10). This airport has achieved a pretty amazing growth rate in the last 10 years. In 1995, it greeted just over 7 million passengers, while in 2005 the number more than tripled to over 24 million passengers (Dubai International Facts & Figures). 

The first day of the Dubai NextGen trip involved orientation meetings by the Dubai Tourism Board and other business organizations, including Du, the new telecommunications player in the region. The rest of the day was spent on a driving tour to provide delegates with an overall sense of the layout of the city. For those that had visited Dubai before, it was quickly apparent that there were fewer cranes in the sky. Instead, those cranes in one short year had turned into mammoth Commercial Real Estate projects. 

Over the next 4 days, the list of projects we visited continued to grow. Burj Dubai, the tallest condominium tower in the world; the Dubai Mall, soon to be the largest mall in the world; Ski Dubai, an indoor ski resort in the middle of the desert; the Burj al Arab, the only 7-star hotel in the world; the Palm Islands, towers and homes built on a man-made island the shape of a palm tree; The World, a series of private islands in the shape of the world; DubaiLand, an entertainment complex that is 2.5 time larger than Disneyworld in Orlando - the list goes on and on! The degree of architectural innovation witnessed in this short trip rivaled any other place on the globe. These projects represent concepts never before attempted (a palm tree shaped island), and are attracting international attention. Not only are they being noticed, but the amount of capital investing in the region is unprecedented for an area this size.

There is also a great deal of technological innovation present in the region. The luxury condominiums that are being built in the Burj Dubai will have state-of-the-art home automation systems that do everything from open the drapes to order lunch from restaurants in the building. During a presentation at Festival City, we heard how one Building Operations Center (BOC) will serve as the hub for the building automation requirements in this 180-building project, as well as the central point for management of public utilities, traffic and safety systems. Their goal is to run all of these traditionally disparate systems over one standard IP network. Technology was also present at the airport, where free wireless was available (wireless access is not uncommon in the United States but it's seldom free). Another subtle yet significant presence of innovative technology was found in restaurants, where servers arrived at your table with a small wireless device ready to take our order. Before they even left the table, your drink order was placed and on its way. 

Despite the grandiose projects and 22nd century vision, it became apparent after a few days of visiting these extraordinary projects that the region was in for some real challenges. Given that no city has ever been built at this speed, one wonders how they will avoid real disasters. The first big issue is that of master planning. From the street, it seems that these large-scale projects were planned in a vacuum, not taking all of the other mega projects into consideration. The direct result of this lack of large scale planning was apparent in the traffic situation -- the city is experiencing gridlock at 25% build out. Everyone on the tour wondered what would happen when all the tenants arrived. The third major concern was density. While these projects all looked great when viewed as models or renderings, the actual quality of construction was less than expected and the units (especially residential) were actually built much closer to the lot lines than represented in the sales models. One major, high-density project stacked next to a similar large-scale development could result in some real problems.

One thing felt consistently across the study group was that Dubai would definitely be a place to watch over the years. It could turn out to be a premiere case study - one to be studied for years by organizations such as ULI, Harvard and others. A development scenario of this magnitude has never been witnessed anywhere in the contemporary world. Even China, with its unprecedented growth, has no region the size of Dubai that is experiencing development at the same speed, density, scope and scale. When asked to describe Dubai, Whit Peyton, the Director of the Minneapolis Office for CB Richard Ellis, just shook his head, rolled his eyes, stretched the air with his hands and made a strange sound. In other words, it cannot be described with words or, for that matter, pictures. Everyone in the group agreed, the only way to truly understand the scope of what is happening in Dubai is to visit, there is simply no other way!

For those readers not ready for the 14-20 hour trip to get there, we have prepared the following list of links for the projects we either visited or discussed. Enjoy!


----------



## GreenKiwi

Interesting insight from a developer. Developers who sold a while back and sat before signing up contractors are now finding in some cases that the costruction costs only give them a marginal profit. Contractors and material prices are likely to keep rising and some developers may find they are unable to turn a profit. Interesting if we see 1 or 2 projects terminated and developers offering refunds and bet they can make more money by selling the land. This developer says if prices of apratments etc fall in Dubai from current levels developers won't launch more projects as they can make as much buying US trasuries and doing nothing with their money. So maybe the market economy will sort out the supply/deamnd equation.


----------



## Morrismarina

GreenKiwi said:


> Interesting insight from a developer. Developers who sold a while back and sat before signing up contractors are now finding in some cases that the costruction costs only give them a marginal profit. Contractors and material prices are likely to keep rising and some developers may find they are unable to turn a profit. Interesting if we see 1 or 2 projects terminated and developers offering refunds and bet they can make more money by selling the land. This developer says if prices of apratments etc fall in Dubai from current levels developers won't launch more projects as they can make as much buying US trasuries and doing nothing with their money. So maybe the market economy will sort out the supply/deamnd equation.



If this is the case then will any of Damac's numerous projects ever get off the ground.


----------



## kano

Do we know what the land registry fees are now in dubai . Have they gone down and what % does the investor have to pay and the developer?


----------



## worried1

*Very Worrisome*



GreenKiwi said:


> Interesting insight from a developer. Developers who sold a while back and sat before signing up contractors are now finding in some cases that the costruction costs only give them a marginal profit. Contractors and material prices are likely to keep rising and some developers may find they are unable to turn a profit. Interesting if we see 1 or 2 projects terminated and developers offering refunds and bet they can make more money by selling the land. This developer says if prices of apratments etc fall in Dubai from current levels developers won't launch more projects as they can make as much buying US trasuries and doing nothing with their money. So maybe the market economy will sort out the supply/deamnd equation.


Very worrisome, but hardly surprising. World history is littered with the corpses of grandiose projects.hno:


----------



## propertyladder

I am considering investing in the booming Dubai property market but have a few doubts concerning the position of foreign investments.

For foreigners who purchase in UAE - is the property freehold with access to TITLE DEEDS like in UK for example? or is everything property of UAE Govt.? And if one does buy there and rent out how do you receive your rental income to your non UAE bank account? i,.e from Dubai to UK is that taxable to get it to UK? and how easy isit to re-sell?

I really did like the sound of The Diamond at Dubai Sports City -been looking at the Diamond -was sent some details about the Diamond. But at the moment it over my budget, the least I could afford in the Diamond would be a studio flat (at £100k), would that be worth it? Theres seems so many apartments in Dubai at present would I be able to re-sell it? or is there more demand for 1-2 bed apts? would a studio be useful enough?

Another question is as its a luxury apt with service fees etc, whats to say in Year 2 the fees won't double? Or is there some statement saying they will be kept at a reasonable %?

Also been sent details on: Castle Lawns, Jumeirah Village -executive Building,

Any thoughts on which properties would yield more income and growth in Dubai, what areas should I concentrate on...

Thanks, for any help, I'm new to property investment in UAE (but love Dubai) 
Cheers


----------



## sameerl

Title deeds are just now being issued for Meadows properties...i received mine a few daya ago. Have heard that they are starting for springs and ranches as well....however, since no condominium/strata law has been passed, title deeds for apartments from the lands department still appears to be a ways off...

And there is no guarantee that common area fees wont double. In point of fact, many private sector developers have already hiked their fees up between 25-50% already..


----------



## sameerl

Sorry, just to clarify above, i received a registration packet from the lands department acknowledging that my title deed was under process and would be issued soon....


----------



## True Blue

kano said:


> Do we know what the land registry fees are now in dubai . Have they gone down and what % does the investor have to pay and the developer?


I can't find the article so I can't be certain, however I recall it being 1.5% total. 1% paid by the purchaser and 0.5% paid by the seller.


----------



## worried1

*buy GCC country stocks*

Does anyone know, how someone can buy a GCC or Dubai based stock on the London Stock exchange or New York Stock exchange?

Does a company like Emaar or damac have ADR's etc


----------



## sameerl

True Blue is correct on the fees. That is in the packet that I have received...


----------



## mission

I thought Dubai Government dropped the fees by 0.5%


----------



## sameerl

I heard the same, but it is not reflecting in the package that i have received. What it states is that on the first registry (which is the case for all of us); it will be 1.5%, but for subsequent transfers, it will be 1.5% and 0.5% being paid by the buyer and seller respectively.


----------



## glover

" buy GCC country stocks
Does anyone know, how someone can buy a GCC or Dubai based stock on the London Stock exchange or New York Stock exchange?

Does a company like Emaar or damac have ADR's etc"

In general, Gulf-based companies have no ADR's, though some I heard are looking into into getting listed in American and European exchanges. 

I think Emaar is going to have an Indian listed IPO soon.

As a non-GCC citizen, I know you can open an account in Kuwait to trade Kuwaiti stocks. I think the same applies here in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. You need though to be physically present here to open such an account as far as I know.

another option you have is to buy ETF's focusing on developing/Gulf countries.


----------



## worried1

*ETF on Gulf Countries*

^^


glover said:


> " buy GCC country stocks
> Does anyone know, how someone can buy a GCC or Dubai based stock on the London Stock exchange or New York Stock exchange?
> 
> Does a company like Emaar or damac have ADR's etc"
> 
> In general, Gulf-based companies have no ADR's, though some I heard are looking into into getting listed in American and European exchanges.
> 
> I think Emaar is going to have an Indian listed IPO soon.
> 
> As a non-GCC citizen, I know you can open an account in Kuwait to trade Kuwaiti stocks. I think the same applies here in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. You need though to be physically present here to open such an account as far as I know.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks:
> 
> Do you know a ETF on Gulf Countries?
> 
> 
> 
> another option you have is to buy ETF's focusing on developing/Gulf countries.


----------



## glover

don't know if they exist! ask your broker. i am sure though there are ETFs focused on developing countries. where are you based!


----------



## cheath

Just back from a relaxig 5 days in Dubai. Wjilst there thought I would take a look at how Saba Towers is getting on as that is where we are buying. It is rising slowly but they are being very optimistic about completion dates. JLT is startihg to come together but as ever it will nly prove itself one peoople move i and the complementary commercial offer is taken up.

Now thinking about the Marina, but would like a completed unit so we can sue it and also rent out. facny a 2-bed with parking. Any suggestions on best agents to try, buildings to go for and avoid (heard bad things about Marina Pinaccle). What is the AED sqft target price at the moment (presumably this excludes balcony area).

Cheers


----------



## carpetking

@cheath

try betterhomes.com or gowealthy.com

i bought about gowealthy with no agency fees.


----------



## worried1

*ETF for Gulf Countries*



glover said:


> don't know if they exist! ask your broker. i am sure though there are ETFs focused on developing countries. where are you based!


I am based in USA, there are ETF's for emerging markets etc, but none that I know about for Gulf countries.


----------



## Krazy

does anyone know if I can apply for home loan/mortgage in the US (american banks/institutions) for property in Dubai?


----------



## worried1

*Loans in US for property in Dubai*



Krazy said:


> does anyone know if I can apply for home loan/mortgage in the US (american banks/institutions) for property in Dubai?


No one that I know does this in USA. The solution appears to be to take out a home equity loan or mortgage an existing US property or use your brokerage account as colatteral. The good news is that all these loans have an interest rate below what some Dubai banks are offerring. Also the paperwork and hassles involved in Dubai make taking a loan from US more compelling


----------



## DubaiMarina

It is very hard to get loan for property in Dubai outside Gulf countries.


----------



## glover

worried1 said:


> I am based in USA, there are ETF's for emerging markets etc, but none that I know about for Gulf countries.


try to find an ETF with few Gulf stocks, and then sell any non-Gulf stocks in the ETF.


----------



## montranieri

Hi everyone. I am just new in this forum site.

I purchase one week ago 1 bedroom flat in Panoramic Building in Dubai Marina.

It is not a famous building, but I think that the price is appropiate considering the location and view. 
Mi idea is that some buildings are overpriced now and some not.
So it is a matter of where and how much.


----------



## worried1

*Thanks must be a better way*



glover said:


> try to find an ETF with few Gulf stocks, and then sell any non-Gulf stocks in the ETF.



Thanks for your help, but there must be a better way. Hardly any ETF has any Gulf stocks, and I would have to sell hundreds of stocks short to be long a few gulf stocks.

So, I guess real estate (the physical asset) is the only avenue available to gain exposure to the gulf economies at this time.hno:


----------



## cheath

Can anyone give me an idea as to how much AED sqft I should be looking to pay for a Marina property? Thanks


----------



## True Blue

montranieri said:


> Hi everyone. I am just new in this forum site.
> 
> I purchase one week ago 1 bedroom flat in Panoramic Building in Dubai Marina.
> 
> It is not a famous building, but I think that the price is appropiate considering the location and view.
> Mi idea is that some buildings are overpriced now and some not.
> So it is a matter of where and how much.


Welcome to the forum. 

I like the rooftop pool in Panoramic, ideal for sunworshipers and a great viewing gallery for the marina.

You may be correct about buildings being overpriced. Some developers are charging top dollar but as yet are far from delivering the goods. I know Panoramic is not far from completion so you picked wisely and reduced your risk of owning a hole in the ground for 2 years.


----------



## dubaiflo

did u buy from the developer montranieri?

welcome to the forum!


----------



## Krazy

Can someone who has experience with short term rentals in Dubai explain the procedure? Does the landlord need the master developer's permission before they can rent out their properties on short or long term basis? What paper work is required? Is Dubai Municipality's permission required?

Also, on an average, how many days do you think a one bedroom apartment with good location, views and facilities in Dubai Marina, be rented out on a short term basis in one calendar year? 100 days? 200 days?


----------



## True Blue

^^ Went to a better homes seminar on short term rentals and I am about to try out My Dubai stay while in Dubai next. Both companies insist that you buy their furniture package. Both companies take 20% as commision for renting.

On the paperwork side, don't know the answer but BH did mention that they deal with the administration. 

I asked my developer if there was a problem with me buying for letting purposes and they replied, no. Then when I read the contract it clearly stipulates that the apartments are to be used for "private residential purposes only". This could be open to interpretation.

Short term rents are achieving better than 75% occupation in the marina. Who knows what will happen when JBR floods the market. I think it will be good as it will mark the slow down of construction activity and the creation of a large shopping and leisure zone. In other words a major tourist draw. So I don't expect to see this causing a down turn in rentals. By the end of this year the marina is going to be a totally different place.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

"private residential purposes only" simply means no business is allowed to operate in the premisis, eg. not a shop or office. Renting your property to a 3rd party is allowed so long as the 3rd party does not operate a business and uses it for residential purposes only.


----------



## ferrari430

Does anyone have any views on the following:

1) Investment in aparthotel coming upto completion in 1/1.5 years time. To be specific i am looking into Bonnington tower in JLT. Is there a shoratge of aparthotels currently - will it still yield a decent return in 2 years time compared to residential long term lets. Bonnington hotel will be a 5 star hotel with the first 13 floors dedicated to the hotel and will manage the short term rentals of the apartments above

2) 3 bed apartments in Marina Wharf 2. This I believe is located near the bottom of the marina - front line marina development and all 3 bed apartments will have marina views as they are located on the front and sides. Prices start from around 900DHS sqft. Target completion October 2008. Developer DEC (dheeraj east coast) who have also done the DEC towers. Anyone know about this development and have any views regarding the investment

Thanks


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Do you think Al Fattan is potentially still a good investment ?

Rental prices are AED 1,825 per day for a 3 bed with palm view and apartments are fully booked until MArch 2008 at present. That means 100% occupancy or potentially AED 666,126 per annum in rent. What is the purchase price of such a unit on the resale market ? Must be an extremely good rental return and hence good investment ?


----------



## ferrari430

wow, that is some view. I prefer AlFattan and JBR tp PJ simply because of the view from such heights


----------



## worried1

*condo hotel--appartment hotel*

As I have indicated before, it appears that a condo hotel/appt hotel may be the best way to invest for a person living outside dubai or wanting peace of mind.

Along with Bonnington tower, look at plot a1 in JLT, hotel and appartments will be managed by Movenpick which is a well known brand name.

You may also try some of the hotel appartments in sports city.


----------



## HarryKane

Dubai_Steve said:


> Do you think Al Fattan is potentially still a good investment ?
> Rental prices are AED 1,825 per day for a 3 bed with palm view and apartments are fully booked until MArch 2008 at present. That means 100% occupancy or potentially AED 666,126 per annum in rent.


I know one agency (Vacation Homes) has vacancies this month and next, another (Villarenters) has availabilities for any month you want, Edwards & Towers for a monthly rent, and Landmark has one for 250k per annum.


----------



## greenbage

Guys can I please have some advice as I am thinking of selling my apartment in Dubai Marina, in Diamond II and would like to find out what the current market value is from the experts on this forum details are posted below.

The details of my 1 bed apartment are as follows bellow.

(Building) Marina Diamond 2. 

(Size) 572 Sq foot

(Type B) 1 bed apartment on the 15th floor with marina views on the entrance side of the building, the bedroom has a partition wall with a gap at the top to let the light into the living room as the living room has no window.

Fully furnished apartment.

Thanks for any help/advice


----------



## ragga

Any help/advice about Umm Al Quwain? I am thinking of purchasing studios outside of Dubai... what do you think?


----------



## carpetking

Dubai_Steve said:


> Do you think Al Fattan is potentially still a good investment ?
> 
> Rental prices are AED 1,825 per day for a 3 bed with palm view and apartments are fully booked until MArch 2008 at present. That means 100% occupancy or potentially AED 666,126 per annum in rent. What is the purchase price of such a unit on the resale market ? Must be an extremely good rental return and hence good investment ?


so looks my dream apartment in Dubai with palm view great


----------



## mackie1964

carpetking;so looks my dream apartment in Dubai with palm view great :)[/QUOTE said:


> You have a palm view from your apartment in the Timeplace (tiny view mind you).
> 
> @ Dubai Steve;
> 
> I know what you mean, I struggled to get a 2 bed in Marina over the new year and it was much cheaper for us to get two rooms in a 5* Hotel.


----------



## greenbage

I would like get your views on the prices quoted here please please http://www.bhomes.com/Results.aspx thanks chaps.


----------



## ferrari430

*Marina Diamond 2*

An agent sold the same size apartment in MD 2 for 95K GBP in London 3/4 weeks ago and hence my estimate of 650K DHS. Remember 650K was the selling price not the asking. In Dubai anyone can ask whatever they want but they are not going to sell unless the price is in line with actual selling prices


----------



## IISinbadII

I just want to know why are so many people from UK and other EU countries buying property in Dubai. Do they want to move and live in Dubai or is it for investment reasons.


----------



## ragga

Some are investing, some are moving... even though Dubai is getting expensive its still much cheaper than living in the UK.


----------



## IISinbadII

ragga said:


> Some are investing, some are moving... even though Dubai is getting expensive its still much cheaper than living in the UK.


Do you mean people with Indo-Pak origen or whites. I have doubts if white Europians are buying property in Dubai. I feel that most foreighners you see in Dubai are just working and will return to their countries once their contract is over......but I may be wrong.


----------



## DubaiMarina

*Tax paradise for me*



IISinbadII said:


> I just want to know why are so many people from UK and other EU countries buying property in Dubai. Do they want to move and live in Dubai or is it for investment reasons.


Taxes are the reason for me. In Scandinavia we have to pay so much taxes. When I live in Dubai I don´t have to pay taxes.


----------



## montranieri

Yes I purchased from developer. They told me one investor purchased lot of flats but could not be on time with payment schedule so he returned 2. I do not know if it is true. 
Anyway developer sold me for 945 dhs per SQfeet. Definetely higher than original price.





dubaiflo said:


> did u buy from the developer montranieri?
> 
> welcome to the forum!


----------



## IISinbadII

DubaiMarina said:


> Taxes are the reason for me. In Scandinavia we have to pay so much taxes. When I live in Dubai I don´t have to pay taxes.


Thats a good reason. Why not other palces like Malaysia....why choose Dubai which is totally different from Finland. 

BTW, I am asking these questions to understabd the logic of Dubai investment and its future prospects.


----------



## montranieri

Hi trublue,

yes, the roof top pool has great sea and marina view at the moment. I do not know in the future, but according to Panoramic location, it will not be compromised to much anyway.

Completion for Panoramic is expected within 2 months. I say within 3 months.







True Blue said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> I like the rooftop pool in Panoramic, ideal for sunworshipers and a great viewing gallery for the marina.
> 
> You may be correct about buildings being overpriced. Some developers are charging top dollar but as yet are far from delivering the goods. I know Panoramic is not far from completion so you picked wisely and reduced your risk of owning a hole in the ground for 2 years.


----------



## Sonic

IISinbadII said:


> Why not other palces like Malaysia....why choose Dubai which is totally different from Finland.


Here is a wild guess - but perhaps *BECAUSE* it is totally different from Finland? Change is good sometimes...


----------



## DubaiMarina

IISinbadII said:


> Thats a good reason. Why not other palces like Malaysia....why choose Dubai which is totally different from Finland.


Dubai is a safe place and I want to do business in growing market. Dubai is business friendly city and Finland isn´t business friendly country. I live summers in Finland and winters in Dubai.


----------



## DubaiMarina

*Investors worry over construction delays*

"I asked for a compensation clause to be written in the contract for my apartment, but they refused and I was told to take it or leave it," he said.

"The worst bit is that they are only letting me know 28 days before I move in. Do I rent at the Greens for another three months or do I return to a country where it is cheaper. Giving a three month window [for unit hand-overs] is a complete and utter joke," he added.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10098088.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

This is very bad because that is a first impression for many Dubai investors. I hope investors don´t loose their intrests to invest Dubai.


----------



## glover

I am not from Europe, but i can see many reasons why one from Europe would want to move to Dubai. Here are some of them.

- The Weather
- Proximity (travel time and time difference)
- Tax Free
- Relatively Tolerant and Open City
- Business Friendly and Booming Economy
- Residency Visas are Easy to Get
- High Standard of Living
- Attractive Megaprojects
- Cosmopolitan Environment
- Good Night Life
- Beautiful Beaches
- Slower Pace of Life
- Lower Cost of Living
- Low Levels of Crime and Violence
- The Hype (though with substance)
......


----------



## V Kapoor

One reason is extremely good returns by way of rentals!

It could work out to more than 20% if you bought off-plan 2-3 years back.


----------



## Morrismarina

I reckon your apartment Greenbage is worth around 650k tops. Sorry to say this but the main problem will be " the bedroom has a partition wall with a gap at the top to let the light into the living room as the living room has no window ". Hence it's really a studio & doesn't sound too attractive IMO. I'd sell a.s.a.p. if I were you.

Regarding who's buying in Dubai, I read recently the biggest overseas purchasers were the Brits (100,000+ so far) followed in second place by the Russians. 
Big plus for us Brits is there is no language problem as everybody speaks English ......and as all the electrics are UK fittings we don't need to take a travel plug :lol:


----------



## IISinbadII

glover said:


> I am not from Europe, but i can see many reasons why one from Europe would want to move to Dubai. Here are some of them.
> 
> - The Weather
> - Proximity (travel time and time difference)
> - Tax Free
> - Relatively Tolerant and Open City
> - Business Friendly and Booming Economy
> - Residency Visas are Easy to Get
> - High Standard of Living
> - Attractive Megaprojects
> - Cosmopolitan Environment
> - Good Night Life
> - Beautiful Beaches
> - Slower Pace of Life
> - Lower Cost of Living
> - Low Levels of Crime and Violence
> - The Hype (though with substance)
> ......


I agree with some of your reasons BUT there are several things I need to point out:

- The Weather in Dubai is extreme. In winter it is pleasent but in Summer it is HOT even at night. One may say everything is air-conditioned, but no outdoor activity is possible. I doubt if one could even go out for a walk............Now good weather is some place like South California where temp remains arround 70 dig F. So you need no AC no heater.

- Proximity (travel time and time difference)???????????? 

- Dubai's "Booming Economy" is mostly due to the construction going on. The stock market is way down and inflation high.

- Dubai Beaches are good but not as good as beaches in Thailand or Florida gulf cost where you have snow white sand and palm trees. 

- Cost of Living is higher than that in US.


----------



## IISinbadII

Morrismarina said:


> Regarding who's buying in Dubai, I read recently the biggest overseas purchasers were the Brits (100,000+ so far) followed in second place by the Russians.


That is my question. Are these "Brits" people who have Indo-Pak roots OR are Brits with no previous cultural or ethinic attachments with South Asia and Middle East moving to Dubai.


----------



## Dennis-Florida

*Clerical and Nursing Salaries*

Does anyone have an idea as to what one would pay (hourly) for clerical staff as well as nursing staff in Dubai?

Thanks for any information you'd care to share.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

IISinbadII said:


> That is my question. Are these "Brits" people who have Indo-Pak roots OR are Brits with no previous cultural or ethinic attachments with South Asia and Middle East moving to Dubai.


I would say 60% of these have Indo-Pak roots and 40% are white caucasian Brits.


----------



## lovedubai

Judging by people at the Dubai and the Gulf Property Show today, I'd say about 60% were non-white and 40% white if that's any indication of the ethnic origins of British buyers. The whites buying seem older when compared with people I've seen at property shows for other destinations. I would think a lot of older people (like us) buy as holiday homes and to rent out whilst they are not there. 
Britain is a nation with a lot of problems - crime being an especial worry for older people and Dubai is a major draw. Many people want to escape Britain, although not to emigrate entirely and Dubai is seen as an exciting, yet safe destination for holidays. 
That's my personal view at any rate. All Glover's points are valid and coupled with a great investment and increasing publicity, it's no wonder people buy.


----------



## mackie1964

lovedubai said:


> Judging by people at the Dubai and the Gulf Property Show today, I'd say about 60% were non-white and 40% white if that's any indication of the ethnic origins of British buyers. The whites buying seem older when compared with people I've seen at property shows for other destinations. I would think a lot of older people (like us) buy as holiday homes and to rent out whilst they are not there.
> Britain is a nation with a lot of problems - crime being an especial worry for older people and Dubai is a major draw. Many people want to escape Britain, although not to emigrate entirely and Dubai is seen as an exciting, yet safe destination for holidays.
> That's my personal view at any rate. All Glover's points are valid and coupled with a great investment and increasing publicity, it's no wonder people buy.


Enough of the Old, A lot of us still young.

I would say it is 40% - 60% the other way around, I have an article some where from one of the big developers and they mentioned these figures, I will try to dig it out.

Weather is the main reason for a lot of people that I know including us, when you go to work in the dark, return home in the dark, get rain all day every day and pay as much Taxes as we pay, it becomes clear that the quality of life is not great (not the standard of life). Safety, I am not sure, it is just a matter of time with the mass immigration for Dubai to catch up. Of course it is always a bonus if you can make some money too but who knows, the next few months should make things a bit clearer.

These days and due to Technology people can work remotely, I know at least 7 people that are moving over the next couple of years and will work remotely from Dubai. It is very hard to try to predict the Dubai Future as it does not follow any typical business/investment model, so it is a big gamble no doubt. Just jump on and Enjoy the ride.


----------



## IISinbadII

Thanks mackie1964, lovedubai and Dubai_Steve for your comments. It is good to know that Dubai is becoming a multi-ethinic city. Dubai's future looks bright wilth all the future mega projects however only time will tell how things work out in the end. In the near future I am expecting some correction in property prices and rents. This is because all the units coming out starting mid 2007. JBR prices would be something to watch.


----------



## glover

IISinbadII said:


> I agree with some of your reasons BUT there are several things I need to point out:
> 
> - The Weather in Dubai is extreme. In winter it is pleasent but in Summer it is HOT even at night. One may say everything is air-conditioned, but no outdoor activity is possible. I doubt if one could even go out for a walk............Now good weather is some place like South California where temp remains arround 70 dig F. So you need no AC no heater.
> 
> - Proximity (travel time and time difference)????????????
> 
> - Dubai's "Booming Economy" is mostly due to the construction going on. The stock market is way down and inflation high.
> 
> - Cost of Living is higher than that in US.


- Summers are intense in Dubai and definitely extreme, but the rest of the year, the weather is pretty good. I will take 7-8 months of good weather a year anytime, anyday.

- With proximity I meant traveling time (5-6 hours) from Europe to Dubai. The time difference is only 3 hours for most European countries.

- You should see the construction boom right now as one phase of the booming economy. The megaprojects being done here generally aim at increasing tourism and business (Dubailand, Business Bay, etc.). It's like expanding the infrastructure of the city to push for further economical growth in the future. Dubai is already a business hub for multinational companies in the Gulf/Middle East area, and tourism is rapidly growing and becoming a major sector of the economy. One of their goals is to be the midpoint link between Europe and the booming economies of Asia. Imagine the appeal of Dubai once all these projects are done!

- Cost of living in Dubai is still cheaper than that of any major cosmopolitan city be it in Europe or the States.


----------



## lovedubai

Sorry about the 'old' mackie, I was referring to the decrepit inhabitants of this house, not your young vibrant personage!


----------



## worried1

*Dubai vs Mumbai-Delhi-Bangalore-Pune*

Folks,

When we discuss investments in Dubai, perhaps we should compare with other emerging markets as well as developed markets.

I am souring a bit on Dubai vs other countries in the world.


----------



## greenbage

Dubai_Steve said:


> Can you find any others for sale in the building to compare with?


Thanks Dubai_Steve,

I have looked at a few other sites and they quote anything from 750-900 

The situation has changed slightly as I have had 2 phone calls from agents this morning.
One has a potential buyer and the other someone who was interested in renting for 90,000. Do you think I will be in a better position to sell the apartment with a sitting tennant? Can you foresee any potential problems if I decide to do this?

Thanks in advance for any advice


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What price did you get offered from the potential buyer?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

worried1, for investment the thing to consider is low money down, no reypayments during construction and high rental returns. Dubai can offer all of these still if considering the right investment and mortgage lender. Few other countries can offer such high rentals. I would also consider office space in Dubai if I were you. eg. Metro Tower in CoA as rental returns could be as high as 20%


----------



## mackie1964

lovedubai said:


> Sorry about the 'old' mackie, I was referring to the decrepit inhabitants of this house, not your young vibrant personage!


I was only kidding, look forward to seeing you around the Marina.


----------



## greenbage

Dubai_Steve said:


> What price did you get offered from the potential buyer?


I was offered 750.000AED but asked for 775.000AED.

Is it best to sell with a tennent, I mean do you think I will be in a better position to sell the apartment with a sitting tennant? Can you foresee any potential problems if I decide to do this?


----------



## worried1

*Dubai vs other countries*



Dubai_Steve said:


> worried1, for investment the thing to consider is low money down, no reypayments during construction and high rental returns. Dubai can offer all of these still if considering the right investment and mortgage lender. Few other countries can offer such high rentals. I would also consider office space in Dubai if I were you. eg. Metro Tower in CoA as rental returns could be as high as 20%


All good points, but 20%; that is the present with the building already constructed. Presently all blogs are showing delays in construction, it seems that the norm is atleast 1 year. So the money is tied up.

Also low money down!!! Blogs are complaining that investors have paid all the money and the building is still not started.

Mortgage lending to a non Dubai resident is a nightmare. For example even with 50% down lenders ask for expensive life insurance. That means even if I have a 5 million dollar life insurance policy I must take life insurance on each and every property again.

If I can get a 20% yield I would buy something right now.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What is the best Dubai mortgage deal out there at the moment for non residents. Is it still 70% max. I know that for residents it is possible to get 100% finance on a few developments. That would mean a free apartment!


----------



## ragga

anyone selling any studios... contact me....


----------



## greenbage

*Advise please*

I was offered 750.000AED but asked for 775.000AED for my 1 bed apartment in Diamond 2 15th floor.

Is it best to sell with a tennent, I mean do you think I will be in a better position to sell the apartment with a sitting tennant? Can you foresee any potential problems if I decide to do this?


----------



## IISinbadII

greenbage said:


> Thanks Dubai_Steve,.
> One has a potential buyer and the other someone who was interested in renting for 90,000.


90,000 is a good rent for 1 BR considering that rents in Greens are arround 75 to 90 k depending on the property, view etc. You must have paid less for the appartment, but even if it sells for 750,000 AED you are still making 12% on rent (less maintenence fee, brokerage commission). So my question is, *Why you want to sell the appartment?*


----------



## greenbage

IISinbadII said:


> 90,000 is a good rent for 1 BR considering that rents in Greens are arround 75 to 90 k depending on the property, view etc. You must have paid less for the appartment, but even if it sells for 750,000 AED you are still making 12% on rent (less maintenence fee, brokerage commission). So my question is, *Why you want to sell the appartment?*


Becouse I am going to invest my money in Morocco, the investment in Morocco now is very good with growth at 30% to 50% per year.
visit www.propertyborders.com


----------



## lovedubai

Don't believe the hype from the agents - 30% - 50% is unbelievably high. I bought on Mediterranea Saidia last year and the growth is nowhere near what the agents say. I think Morocco has great potential - just be careful what you believe!


----------



## greenbage

lovedubai said:


> Don't believe the hype from the agents - 30% - 50% is unbelievably high. I bought on Mediterranea Saidia last year and the growth is nowhere near what the agents say. I think Morocco has great potential - just be careful what you believe!


I myself have had growth of 30% in Morocco last year its not only agent talk.

I would look in Tangier myself as this is where the tunnel linking Morocco with spain is going to be.


----------



## ferrari430

*morrocco/dubai/bulgaria*

greenbage - which development did you buy in last year and how can you tell the price has gone up 30%. Is there a resale market? I have heard a lot about morrocco but need to know a few things - like who will be the end users of these properties and if bought for letting what will be the occupancy rates and yields. I do regret buying in bulgaria couple of years back - i.e. went with the hype, now there is hardly a rental or a resale market - at least dubai currently has both!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Since you are all comparing other countries for investment with Dubai. I would recommend Campeche Playa in Mexico. 30% deposit - then nothing to pay until completion. 70% mortgages available at 4 or 5%. Huge rental market. Jack Nicklaus Golf etc. 20% to 30% annual capital growth with property prices predicted to double in next 4 years. http://www.campecheplaya.com/index_eng.html Plenty of agents around for this one - just search for "campeche playa" in google.


----------



## nisha

A friend of mine purchased a 2 bed + study at the Marina (one of the emmar blds) for Aed 1.5 million a month back.


----------



## mackie1964

Krazy said:


> therez a bunch of stuff across szr in TECOM


What would you expect to pay for office space per sqft?


----------



## nisha

IISinbadII said:


> The yield for 2 BR in Springs is appx. 6.6%.


Variable. But what are the current mortgage rates - higher?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yields in good 2 bedroom Dubai Marina apartments are still 12%+


----------



## Krazy

Nothing below 1400-1700 dhs/sq ft


----------



## nisha

Dubai_Steve said:


> Yields in good 2 bedroom Dubai Marina apartments are still 12%+


I know someone who got a 3bed+study for AED 150k (down from 200k) in the Marina just last week! Ofcourse this owner was desperate to rent!
Will PM you the link if you're interested


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ So at AED 150k per annum that would mean around 12 to 14% net rental yield at today's purchase prices for 3 beds. Still very nice return! Which tower was it?


----------



## Krazy

^^ are you suggesting current price for 3 bedroom + study in dubai is below 1.4 million?


----------



## Morrismarina

OK lets look at the figures:
1) I paid AED 752k for my Torch one bed. Say I rent it out for 90k that's a 12% return.
2) My BC one bed marina view cost me AED 988k say I get 100k in rent then that's an 11% return.
These are excellent rental returns there's nowhere else in the world I can get these kind of yields. (I've no idea where these quoted low returns of 5% & 6% are comming from, you can even get 6% in the over-priced UK if you buy the right property.)
Another option would be holiday rentals which should in theory provide even better returns than these.
Even a 10% fall in rents will not affect me that much.


----------



## mission

is it 20% for mgnt fees


----------



## mackie1964

Krazy said:


> Nothing below 1400-1700 dhs/sq ft


Thanks Krazy; Any specific recommendation?


----------



## Krazy

^^ gowealthy only has damac towers listed for tecom

http://gowealthy.com/realestate/tecom.asp

i would definitely recomment to STAY AWAY from damac

and then there is this.. but price is abt 2200 dhs/sq ft

http://gowealthy.com/realestate/uae/dubai/tebyanclaritytower/cost.asp


----------



## IISinbadII

mackie1964 said:


> I am looking for an office space close to the Marina, to minimise travelling.
> 
> It has to be useable within the next 12 to 14 months (18 max for the right place), about 80 to 100 sqm.
> 
> Before I speak to agents, can the people based in Dubai give us some advise / indication to where is the best buys.


Check out JLT. It is across the road from Marina. And I believe it is both free zone and free hold.


----------



## IISinbadII

Morrismarina said:


> OK lets look at the figures:
> 1) I paid AED 752k for my Torch one bed. Say I rent it out for 90k that's a 12% return.
> 2) My BC one bed marina view cost me AED 988k say I get 100k in rent then that's an 11% return.
> These are excellent rental returns there's nowhere else in the world I can get these kind of yields. (I've no idea where these quoted low returns of 5% & 6% are comming from, you can even get 6% in the over-priced UK if you buy the right property.)
> Another option would be holiday rentals which should in theory provide even better returns than these.
> Even a 10% fall in rents will not affect me that much.


You missed the point. At the moment there is shortage of appartments. Soon there would be excess. The 5% low returns are that of large Villas and not appartments.


----------



## ferrari430

So for offices in JLT about 1200 DHS/sqft. Is this good value or would i look elsewhere like business bay. Are office space a better investment compared to residential apartments or will there be an excess in the coming years as well. Any views much appreciated


----------



## nisha

Morrismarina said:


> OK lets look at the figures:
> 1) I paid AED 752k for my Torch one bed. Say I rent it out for 90k that's a 12% return.


Isn't that the building expected to be completed by 2010? Don't forget to take into account the number of apartments coming into the market and the widely expected fall in rentals.

A


----------



## dubaimat

ferrari430 said:


> So for offices in JLT about 1200 DHS/sqft. Is this good value or would i look elsewhere like business bay. Are office space a better investment compared to residential apartments or will there be an excess in the coming years as well. Any views much appreciated


New on this forum and after browsing the threads for a few days, I did not think that this would be my first post.
To the best of my knowledge todays prices for good quality office space (and yes not DAMAC) in JLT is about 1200 AED/sq foot whereas Business Bay goes for +/- 1050 AED/sq foot. I am working in that business and we do have an availability list.


----------



## ferrari430

Isnt buisness bay more expensive i.e. in the region of 1600 AED/sqft


----------



## dubaiflo

office space would be the next boom - if it just wasn't so expensive already.

At the moment there is not much difference if you buy office or residential imo, when it comes to possible return or gain in value- a good one might be serviced apts..


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What about office space in Dubailand for the future - prices are cheaper there. eg. metro tower ?


----------



## ferrari430

it might be positive or negative or a mixture of both. 
Positive in the sense that more iranian expat families to move to the safe haven of dubai thus increasing demand for property.
Negative in the sense that a war so near to the emirates might be too close for comfort for some as a result deterring people to move to the region


----------



## dubaiflo

nisha said:


> Not sure about your views krazy - the data does not appear to support it. Am a bit concerned with the slowdown in visitor growth.
> 
> This is some information sourced from the Ministry of Economy and DTCM:
> 
> In 2006, the Dubai’s Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing estimated that hotel and hotel apartment guests (hereafter referred to ‘visitors’ which is reportedly standard in the industry) in the Emirate rose a mere 3% in 2006, down from 14% in 2005 and a peak of 31% in 2002 (refer to chart 16). Note that official data does not include visitors staying with friends and relatives.
> 
> In order to achieve the stated goal of 15mn visitors in Dubai by 2010, growth in visitors (based on official measures) will need to average 24% in the coming years – a feat never consistently achieved in the history of available data.
> 
> After peaking at 30% in 2002, the number of air passenger arrivals actually staying in Dubai hotels and hotel apartments has fallen to 22% in 2006.
> 
> It appears relatively high hotel room rates are deterring visitors. The data available for 2006 thus far, points to a modest decline in hotel room occupancy rates. That is, hotel room occupancy declined from 85% in 2005 to an average 81% over the first three quarters of 2006.
> 
> DTCM reported that 6 new hotels opened in 2006. Any perceived shortage of hotel rooms should be resolved in this year as the DTCM expects an additional 20 hotels to be opened.
> 
> Cheers
> Anya



Krazy is right , we discussed this before.

As you point out the incredibly high prices for hotels in Dubai keep a lot of possible visitors away, but nevertheless we are talking about 90 % occupancy and growing demand.

So what does it tell us, if there would be two times more hotels at the same prices, maybe occupancy would drop to 70%, but then again prices would fall and if they reach an average acceptable price level in Dubai, i bet demand would double or triple.

So what we need to attract more people is lower prices which ends up in more hotels and serviced apartments.

those 20 hotels in 2007 will not solve the issue.


----------



## nisha

dubaiflo said:


> but nevertheless we are talking about 90 % occupancy and growing demand.


With all due respect the 81% occupancy rate in 2006 was obtained from DTCM.

So who's your source?


----------



## Morrismarina

dubaifirst said:


> Impact of Iran war on dubai property market?
> 
> US annouunces doubling of strategic petroleum reserve.
> 
> 2 aircraft carriers move to the gulf.
> 
> If US launches war on iran this year, what impact would that leave on Dubai,s property market?



I wouldn't worry about this I think it's incredibly unlikely (impossible) the US would start a war with Iran given the problems they're encountered in Iraq. Will never realistically be an issue as far as I can see for Dubai investors.


----------



## ferrari430

Morrismarina said:


> I wouldn't worry about this I think it's incredibly unlikely (impossible) the US would start a war with Iran given the problems they're encountered in Iraq. Will never realistically be an issue as far as I can see for Dubai investors.


Against all odds this is what Bush is doing. As he has already lost popularity and his term is coming to an end striking Iran will be his last ditch effort in causing instability in the mid east. The first signs were to move an extra 20000 troops to iraq and also the aircraft carriers to the persian gulf. You will be kidding yourself if you dont believe that iran wouldnt be attacked.


----------



## Morrismarina

ferrari430 said:


> Against all odds this is what Bush is doing. As he has already lost popularity and his term is coming to an end striking Iran will be his last ditch effort in causing instability in the mid east. The first signs were to move an extra 20000 troops to iraq and also the aircraft carriers to the persian gulf. You will be kidding yourself if you dont believe that iran wouldnt be attacked.


I was going to reply....but I don't want to risk opening up a massive debate about this and straying off topic as this is the Investment thread. You're entitled to your view , fair enough.


----------



## dubaiflo

nisha said:


> With all due respect the 81% occupancy rate in 2006 was obtained from DTCM.
> 
> So who's your source?


i am talking about 5 star + hotels, which are the target of almost all serviced apartments developments. 

Also you are only giving the first 3Q, missing a high occupancy period before and during christmas.


----------



## Krazy

guys Amlak is going to charge me over 10% interest on my home loan.. this is madness! can someone suggest alternatives for me? I'm a non-resident, living in the US


----------



## nisha

Krazy - try RAKBANK (please remember to bargain hard on the processing fees and interest rate). Will try and find the interest rates from another service provider I know well in the same industry (on Sunday) for you.

I also hope you won't be socked with early repayment charges by Amlak if you decide to move.


----------



## Krazy

^^ thanks, I have looked at RAKBank too and they charge a similar interest rate. My other option is Mashreq Bank, I will try to find out their rates.

You bring up a good point, what happens if I relocate to Dubai in a couple of years?


----------



## nisha

I would stay well away from Mashreq.

Like I said let me use my contacts and find out who's providing the best deal on Sunday.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wow 10% that is mad! How can Dubai succeed with such greedy idiotic banks. Suggest you transfer to the Torch, only 7.9%. I am only paying 4.5% for a european mortgage.


----------



## Morrismarina

In enquired at Barclays a couple of months ago and non-resident rates were 10 - 11% :nuts: ......makes the 7.8% I'm paying with the DS payment plan on BC look cheap.


----------



## Krazy

Steve Torch interest rates are for UK residents only.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

huh? I don't think so. It is just a lengthy payment plan - no bank involved. Anyone can own a Torch apartment surely


----------



## Dubai_Steve

10 - 11% this is madness. I give up with Dubai! It is doomed


----------



## Krazy

^^ Im thinking same.. is it really worth it? I end up paying more than 1 million dirhams over a period of 15 years for my 500K loan.


----------



## Morrismarina

Remember that as Dubai property completes in the comming years banks can lend on properties actually built rather than off-plan (so risk is less) then interest rates should come down and you can re-mortgage for a cheaper rate. (Also with off -plan you only get a choice of 1 or 2 lenders as they have a tie -in with the developer, but when built you'll have many lenders to choose from).


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Still I don't understand why Dubai banks are sooo greedy or scared to lend. You can buy off-plan in other places in the world and get 4 or 5% interest rates during construction, the same risk. Why does Dubai feel the need to charge 10%. Is it related to the property law still not finalised ?


----------



## Krazy

Why should Amlak be scared of Emaar properties when they themselves are a part of the Emaar empire??


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> Gulf News today


Come on!! 180,000aed for a 1 bed in MD1 thats about £25,000pa. I suppose if the company is picking up the tab then tenants would not consider the value aspect.

Not so special offer surely! I saw a post on the PJ thread where a shoreline owner managed to let for 140,000aed per annum.


----------



## HarryKane

Krazy said:


> I have spoken to a representative of Barclays and they have given me an interest rate of 8.25%.


Have you tried Tamweel or DIB? I know they do Emaar props.


----------



## carpetking

Krazy said:


> I have asked Emaar about residence visa. I don't know if this applies to all developers, but my father or I will be applying for visa for our property in Paloma. Emaar has told us that the six month visa does indeed apply. However, Emaar issues a letter for Dhs 100, which is mailed to you when your abroad for more than 6 months. You can present this letter to the imigration and enter the country without any problems.


Krazy,is it so that you must pay only 100 Dh's for a visa if your father
takes the residence visa for 5000 Dh's ?


----------



## Krazy

^^ on a one bedroom apartment, only one owner can apply for the residence visa. So if needed, either myself or my father will apply for a visa. Then if the visa holder is out of the country for over 6 months, Dhs 100 fee will apply.


----------



## Morrismarina

So husband and wife purchase a one bed....... is it the case that only wife can have a residency visa then ???


----------



## Krazy

^^ no.. the rule is on a one bedroom unit, only ONE owner can apply for residence visa and this includes his/her direct dependants (in the UAE, that is spouse, unmarried daughter and son till the age of 18)


----------



## carpetking

Krazy said:


> ^^ on a one bedroom apartment, only one owner can apply for the residence visa. So if needed, either myself or my father will apply for a visa. Then if the visa holder is out of the country for over 6 months, Dhs 100 fee will apply.



Thanks for information Krazy


----------



## Krazy

saskia,

Did Barclay require you to purchase Life Insurance from one of their recommended vendors BEFORE your loan could be approved or do they let you take your time to decide after your loan has been approved?


----------



## Imre

carpetking said:


> Krazy,is it so that you must pay only 100 Dh's for a visa if your father
> takes the residence visa for 5000 Dh's ?


my friend has got a residence visa from Emaar , but it is very expensive...

he paid 6750 dhs/3 years , because visa fee 5000, medical fee 400, admin fee 250 etc fee....


----------



## Krazy

saskia,

Do you know anything about Barclay's "Buy to Let" option? How does one qualify for this option and how does the interest rate vary?


----------



## IISinbadII

Imre said:


> my friend has got a residence visa from Emaar , but it is very expensive...
> 
> he paid 6750 dhs/3 years , because visa fee 5000, medical fee 400, admin fee 250 etc fee....


I dont think it has much to do with Emaar as most of it seem to be going to the government.


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> ^^ no.. the rule is on a one bedroom unit, only ONE owner can apply for residence visa and this includes his/her direct dependants (in the UAE, that is spouse, unmarried daughter and son till the age of 18)


plus you could be eligible to sponsor a female *House Maid* (only Eritrean, Thai, Filipino, Indonesian or Sri Lankan nationals).

Please note that Emaar does not provide visas for:

-Parents of the applicants
-Sons over age of 18
-Married daughters
-House Maids of some nationalities
-Drivers/Houseboys (plus no Cook or Watchman, etc) 
-Sisters and brothers of applicants
-Applicants on restricted list (Iraq, Somalia, Yemen)
-Applicants who do not pass the Medical examination
-Husbands of women who have applied for residence visas as sole buyers
==========

I asked Emaar if they sponsor Visit Visas for those who are coming to Dubai for pre-handover inspections or handover of their property and they said No.


----------



## saskia

Krazy, 

On life insurance - Barclays will only approve your mortgage after the life insurance is in place; they need to see the policy as part of their mortgage approval process. You don't need to use any of their recommended insurance providers, you are free to chose any provider you want. We did find it hard to find an insurance that was willing to assign the life insurance to the bank (which is why we ended up with a UK insurance company).

There are a number of conditions to qualify for the mortgage; it starts by completing the application forms, then the apartment needs to be valued (this costs approx 3000 dhs). Also, as a non-resident, the UAE embassy in your country needs to attest your proof of address and you need the life insurance to be in place. We also had to submit the original sale and purchase contract for the bank to register the mortgage (for which Emaar charges 3000 dirhams). 

There are no additional requirements for a buy-to-let mortgage; you simply need to indicate what type of mortgage you want on the application form. 

Do keep in mind that is a time-consuming (and at times frustrating!) process to get everything organised. For the life insurance, for example, we had to attend medicals and the valuation of the property will also take some time to organise. 


Saskia


----------



## Morrismarina

saskia said:


> Krazy,
> 
> On life insurance - Barclays will only approve your mortgage after the life insurance is in place; they need to see the policy as part of their mortgage approval process. You don't need to use any of their recommended insurance providers, you are free to chose any provider you want. We did find it hard to find an insurance that was willing to assign the life insurance to the bank (which is why we ended up with a UK insurance company).
> 
> There are a number of conditions to qualify for the mortgage; it starts by completing the application forms, then the apartment needs to be valued (this costs approx 3000 dhs). Also, as a non-resident, the UAE embassy in your country needs to attest your proof of address and you need the life insurance to be in place. We also had to submit the original sale and purchase contract for the bank to register the mortgage (for which Emaar charges 3000 dirhams).
> 
> There are no additional requirements for a buy-to-let mortgage; you simply need to indicate what type of mortgage you want on the application form.
> 
> Do keep in mind that is a time-consuming (and at times frustrating!) process to get everything organised. For the life insurance, for example, we had to attend medicals and the valuation of the property will also take some time to organise.
> 
> 
> Saskia


Cheers for the info Saskia but are you able to tell us how the affordability is calculated on these BTL mortgages please ? Do they need to take any of your earned personal income into account or are they happy to use only the potential rental income. If so what percentage rental is required to cover the mortgage payments ?? 
On the issue of the residency visa whilst this does seem initially expensive this only works out to around UK £300 per year and living in Dubai the great benefit of course is all your income will be tax free


----------



## saskia

> Cheers for the info Saskia but are you able to tell us how the affordability is calculated on these BTL mortgages please ? Do they need to take any of your earned personal income into account or are they happy to use only the potential rental income. If so what percentage rental is required to cover the mortgage payments ??


As far as I know Barclays did not take the potential rental income into consideration - they never mentioned or asked about this; they only looked at our personal income and financial commitments (mortgage in home country etc). The only clause with regards to rental is that they reserve the right to approve rental agreements. Barclays told me this is a formality - they want to avoid you would rent the apartment out to five families with 10 kids each...


----------



## Krazy

thanks again saskia..

can I rent out my apartment on completion even if I dont go for the BTL option?


----------



## mission

Krazy said:


> thanks again saskia..
> 
> can I rent out my apartment on completion even if I dont go for the BTL option?


Of course you can, your mortgage lender will never know. Its very common in the UK


----------



## Krazy

^^ but is it against their terms n conditions?


----------



## mission

Krazy said:


> ^^ but is it against their terms n conditions?


How would they ever find out?

This is how i got onto the buy to let market in the uk!!!!

For example:

If you own a house and you get together with a woman who also has a house. You decided to move into your girlfriends house and rent the other house out!!!!!

Same situation very common in the uk


----------



## kano

^^^ krazy it's only when you default and can't pay that you will get problems from them...


----------



## Krazy

^^ homeowners insurance is a requirement by almost all mortgage providers


----------



## Anjam

IISinbadII said:


> I was wondering if you have to buy *homeowners Insurance *when you buy property in Dubai. I mean are all these towers coverd for fire, earthquake, flooding, storms, structural damage, etc and if so who pays for this coverage?


Interesting question. Home and contents insurance would cover your apartment and contents. God forbid if there is an earthquake, fire, lightening strike which damaged the whole building what would happen then? Does the service charge include some sort of buildings insurance to rebuidl/repair??


----------



## Krazy

saskia do you have a contact at Friends Provident that I can discuss my life insurance policy requirements with? Email address would be prefered.. thanks a lot!


----------



## Morrismarina

Krazy said:


> ^^ that's because there is no such thing as credit history in the UAE is there?



I doubt whether this has anything to do with the lack of BTL mortgages, after all banks are happy to give residential mortgages without any credit history......they can obtain bank statements, references from UK banks, etc. etc.
It's more likely to do with the fact that the rental market in Dubai is very new, not really stable with a possible oversupply of rental accomodation in the next few years. Landlords could be in a position where their properties could be empty for many months and hence unable to pay the mortgage !! The rental market in the UK is very different, stable rental market, no prospects of oversupply and demand is likely to remain strong over the comming years. There's hell of a lot more risk for the Dubai banks in relying solely on rental income.
I can't see this changing for quite a few years as the risk of over supply with be with us in Dubai for quite a while yet. May take many years for the market to settle down and banks to gain confidence in the rental sector.
My own personal opinion is that the rental market will remain reasonably strong although there'll be peaks and troughs in supply of rental property as developments are completed at various times.
But this lack of proper BTL mortgages is good news for investors in Dubai who have already purchased to rent. Means there'll not be hoards of newcommers to the market, only those with good personal incomes or a load of cash can buy property to rent. Keeps away the " 10% deposit " investors from the UK.
(And......if you really want to buy a rental property in Dubai & struggling to find that proper BTL type mortgage...... you could always purchase from Dubai Select on their 15 non-status payment plan with no restrictions on who you rent it out to......no fees to pay and an equivalent interest rate of under 8% !!!  ).


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Krazy said:


> ^^ that's because there is no such thing as credit history in the UAE is there?


It is even easy to get a UK BTL mortgage even if you have been bankrupt in the past and not able to prove any income (self certification). You just need to prove that the rental will cover 90% or more of the mortgage interest by getting an independent rental valuation.


----------



## Morrismarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> It is even easy to get a UK BTL mortgage even if you have been bankrupt in the past and not able to prove any income (self certification). You just need to prove that the rental will cover 90% or more of the mortgage interest by getting an independent rental valuation.


To be fair there's very few BTL mortgages being agreed at 90% or even 80% in the UK now. With prices so high and interest rates rising the rental income cover (usually 125% of the monthly interest) is restricting loan to values. With interest rates continually rising the rent is covering the mortgage interest payments less and less. Virtually impossible to get much past 75% ltv now. 
Yes Steve you can get a BTL mortgage if you've been bankrupt but you'll need to go to a sub-prime lender and you'll need to be discharged for at least one year. (Though some lenders will accept being discharged for only one day but the interest rate is through the roof !!). And as explained above, you'll need a fairly large deposit these days.
The advantage with a BTL in Dubai (for now anyway) is that the rent is so high that you'll easily cover your mortgage interest. The future is less certain of course....either property prices will rise to meet the high rents to bring yields down or, alternatively rents will fall. That's the gamble.......but worse case scenario, you can always sell up in the UK, retire to the sun and live a tax fee life :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Krazy

What is considered a good rental return in the UK and elsewhere in europe? In Dubai, anything close to 10% is considered good (and acheivable)


----------



## Morrismarina

If we measure the yield as annual rent as a percentage of the current property value........ in the UK a yield of 5 to 6% is considered good.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

8% is still achievable in the UK with lower value properties but very difficult to find ones at this yield now.

edeus.eu will give you a 90% Loan to Value BTL mortgage at about 6% at 100% rental interest coverage in the UK. Completion of funds possible in 24 hours.


----------



## Krazy

* Battle lines drawn by developers over escrow accounts*

By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter


Dubai: Real estate developers are strongly divided over the upcoming introduction of a key law in Dubai's property sector, say officials at Dubai Land Department.

Some fear government proposals to phase in "escrow accounts" will restrict their ability to launch new projects, while other say the move will bolster sales.

The government has drawn up a draft document outlining its plans to hold buyers' payments in escrow accounts, which would be managed by fin-ancial institutions such as banks. The payments would be released to developers in stages as construction work on a property progresses.

Dubai Land Department is currently seeking feedback from developers on how the new regulation will impact the city's property sector.

"The feedback we have received from developers has been very mixed," said Mohammad Sultan Thani, director of development and marketing administration at Dubai Land Department.

"Large developers who have no shortage of funds strongly welcome the law saying it will add confidence among buyers and improve sales. Smaller developers say restricting access to buyers' payments will hinder their ability to finance projects and slow down the market."

Add legitimacy

Industry analysts have consistently called for escrow accounts on the grounds that they will add legitimacy to a market where developers' use of buyers' payments is currently unregulated.

At the moment developers can use downpayments acquired from off plan unit sales, as well as monthly installments, for anything from promotions to advertising campaigns, rather than financing actual construction costs. It also means "cowboy developers" are in a position to rake in money from off plan sales and flee the country without a brick being laid. According to Thani, large scale developers have told the Land Department that the accounts would boost their sales volumes.

"If this is introduced, confidence levels for foreign buyers will go through the roof," explained Iseeb Rehman, managing director of Sherwoods Independent Property Consultants. "It will give them great peace of mind that that the money they are handing over is safe."

However, for many smaller private developers, the funds they build up by selling units off plan is vital to meet ever-increasing construction costs.

"Small developers told us that the law will deny them the money they need to get projects underway and will significantly slow their construction progress," said Thani

Developers' suggestions

He added: "In some property markets, the escrow accounts are such that developers have no access to payments until construction is complete. We recognise that this will severely hinder market growth so we are considering a system where funds would be released in stages according to the progress of the building."

According to the Land department, the draft law will be adapted to include developers' suggestions before going receiving final approval. Officials were reluctant to exactly when the law will receive federal approval.

The move to tighten controls over developers is seen as a logical next step to the recent introduction of a by-law requiring property brokers to register their details with the Land Department.


----------



## Krazy

will this result in real estate prices rising this year, especially for new launches?

*UAE construction costs set to soar by 20%*



Construction costs in the UAE will rise by at least 20% this year after surging in 2006, according to the chief executive of Abu Dhabi developer Aldar Properties.

Abu Dhabi, the largest of seven emirates in the UAE, is investing windfall oil revenues in developing tourism and infrastructure. These projects and others across the Gulf and Asia are driving demand for everything from cranes to cement.

Construction costs, including the cost of cement, steel and other building materials, rose 25-30% in 2006, Aldar Chief Executive Ronald Barrott told Reuters on Monday on the sidelines of a presentation to investors for a bond sale. 

"We expect construction costs will go up 20% plus this year again in the UAE," Barrott said.

"They're still moving quickly because demand simply outweighs supply. Contractors are taking advantage of that."

The pace of construction and rising costs are squeezing profits, Barrott said, echoing concerns raised by developers in Dubai, including High Rise Real Estate which said in September their margins were under pressure.

Abu Dhabi, which has more than 90% of the UAE's oil reserves, is trying to wean its economy off energy exports and emulate the success of neighbouring Dubai, the Gulf's commercial hub.

Dubai's kicked off rapid growth in real estate prices in 2002 by allowing foreigners to invest in property.

Abu Dhabi is poised for similar growth after a 2005 law allowing foreigners to buy properties under 99-year leases, triggering a flurry of new projects by Aldar and rival Sorouh Real Estate, Barrott said.

"There is pent-up demand from the expatriate market to acquire these properties," Barrott said. "It will take five years before the supply crunch eases."

Aldar plans to invest $50 billion in Abu Dhabi real estate projects in the next five to 10 years. One of its projects is a $40 billion island of the coast of Abu Dhabi that will host a leisure complex including a Ferrari theme park.

Although Aldar has got most of its 30 million square metre land bank free from the government, the company spends about AED 7bn ($1.91bn) to develop 1 million square metre for residential use, said Chief Financial Officer Shafqat Ali Malik.

Aldar is trying to contain costs by forming joint ventures with suppliers and building companies, including construction group Laing O'Rourke, Malik said.

Residential properties account for half of all Aldar's projects.

Aldar expects a return of 15 to 20% on residential sales, while rentals properties, both homes and offices, will yield between 8 and 12 percent a year, Malik said.

The company also expects to sell about a third of its land as bare plots.


----------



## True Blue

^^ This may explain why Cayan's latest release is way above the pricing level of their previous projects. Tenders coming back with sharp increases in the rates.

As for the Escrows, need to happen if Investors are expected to pay up front like this. European developments require a deposit to hold a property, the balance being due at completion. The way Dubai does it is similar to the way it would happen if you or I were the developer employing the contractors direct and making stage or progress payments. The difference being you or I don't have control over what is happening on the site or with the funds. Currently wide open to fraud and abuse (funding other developments, land purchases and Directors fat bonuses).


----------



## IISinbadII

Anjam said:


> Interesting question. Home and contents insurance would cover your apartment and contents. God forbid if there is an earthquake, fire, lightening strike which damaged the whole building what would happen then? Does the service charge include some sort of buildings insurance to rebuidl/repair??


Exactly. You are paying millions to buy an apartment, God forbid if something happens. Insurance, not only should cover for apartment and contents, but also pay for personal injury, medical expences and rental costs for alternative accomodation.


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> What is considered a good rental return in the UK and elsewhere in europe? In Dubai, anything close to 10% is considered good (and acheivable)


10% rental return is one of the major incentives for Dubai investors. But I don’t think it is sustainable. As supply surpasses demand, the rents are bound to come down to more realistic 6% or so. After paying annual maintenance fees and brokerage commission the net will even be less. 

Anyone buying property in Dubai should keep this in mind!


----------



## glover

Krazy said:


> ^^ that's because there is no such thing as credit history in the UAE is there?


I saw an interview the other day with a local banker who said a credit bureau was actually initiated in Dubai/UAE about a year ago, but not enough banks have signed up yet, though he felt that would change soon with the growing finance market!


----------



## saskia

> saskia do you have a contact at Friends Provident that I can discuss my life insurance policy requirements with? Email address would be prefered.. thanks a lot!


Krazy, we used Richard Boyd at Global Eye in Dubai (insurance brokers) - his email is [email protected]


----------



## cheath

I know I have asked this one before but please bear with me. How much AEd sqft should I look to pay for marina property with a full or part marina view?

Thanks in anticipation!


----------



## cheath

In response to the thread about payment terms/Escrow accounts. I run a property development and investmnet compnay in the northwest of England. As a developer it always fascinates me how purchaers are expected to pay up front for their property. Its great from a developers point of view as it reduces you cash requirement. IN fact if you are lucky you may even be cash positive at an early stage. There is an obviuos risk to the purchaser as there is no guarantee that you will actually get what you have paid for (obviuolsy you can try to seek redress thorugh the courts but it is hard to sue if someone has gone bust). Early on people were getting a good deal but now prices are much fuller and purchasers are not really seeing any risk premium in respect of their advance payments.

Escrow accounts do offer some security to purchasers but to be honest its as much in the banks interest as it is in the purchasers and the terms under whihc the money is held/released become yet another layer of legal issues whihc need to bo considered (by lawyers who know how to charge) or as often happens, ignored.

It will make it harder for developers to fund projects and may preclude smaller developers, but is that such a bad thing? If a developer cannot secure the cash or has the assets to secure against the cost of borrowing for the funding of acquisition and construction, then maybe they shouldnt be developing? Stewardship of cash is one of the major skills in the developmnet process.

If developers had to fund the majority of cost in terms of land and constrcution then purchasers would be assured that the developer would be very motivated to ensure deleivery. Similarly if the banks were providing the fudning they would have a vested interest to ensure the project continued and the units sold if the developer went bust.

Certainly it would add to the cost for developers but this would be taken care of by the marketplace. The units can only be sold for the price the market will pay and although it is a simplistic view it is the land cost that would be affected! It would have to come down in price


----------



## dubaifirst

cheath said:


> I know I have asked this one before but please bear with me. How much AEd sqft should I look to pay for marina property with a full or part marina view?
> 
> Thanks in anticipation!


Considering the 20% rise in the cost of labour and materilas, I would expect the price to be between 1300 AED to 1500AED depending on the location, quality and the provided facilities.


----------



## IISinbadII

cheath said:


> I know I have asked this one before but please bear with me. How much AEd sqft should I look to pay for marina property with a full or part marina view?


A lot depends on quality, developer, plan, location, floor, complition date and facilities. But I would say that you should be able to get full marina view in very good quality development @ AED 1200 to 1300 /sqft.


----------



## GreenKiwi

You should only pay AED 1200-1300 for a superb marina view or from an overpriced developer. Pre launch in Silverene at AED 870 PSF pool/marina for lower floor 1 beds but the marina view is actually pretty good given the orientation of the building and as it is on the marina edge nothing will go in front.


----------



## dubaigreen

*RAS AL KHAIMAH or Umm al Quwain*

Hi,

What are you thinking about investing into northern Emirates, like RAS AL KHAIMAH or Umm al Quwain. There are many projects:
* Al Hamra, latest is the Royal Breeze apartments in this project
* The Cove
* La Hoya Bay (on Marjan Island)
* White Bay
* Quwain Marina (Emaar)
* Etc..

Prices vary between 450 to 750 per sqft, depending on view and location.

I am interested in Sea view (unblocked). What is your view on these developments? What would you go for?

cheers
DB


----------



## IISinbadII

RAK and other areas are good for those who have some reason to live there like work, family, etc. Another reason would be for the attractive prices. But they are far behind Dubai i.e. if you like a big city lifestyle, shopping, infrastructure, etc. But maybe in 10 years or so these places will catch up with Dubai and those who have purchased property at today"s low prices will benefit.


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## sameerl

I have seen the Cove, and it is very impressive...not too far out of the city with ready access to the city lifestyle...looks like great value for money


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## IISinbadII

What is the story with *DAMAC* Properties? Thanks.


----------



## sameerl

I think people will tell you all kinds of things about the company (there is another forum here on SSC), but from a secondary market investment perspective, there is hardly any activity, which is ominous for investors. i have no idea what their end product looks like


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## IISinbadII

deleted


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## Krazy

saskia,

what kind of a letter do I need that wud certify my residential address? All that Barclay's told me is that I need "my residential address attested by the UAE embassy". What I'm trying to say is, is this going to be a letter written by ME and addressed to BARCLAYS... and the letter will be attested by UAE embassy? Not too sure about the format


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## GreenKiwi

Krazy good luck with Barclays but their mortgage operation in Dubai is staffed by some disinterested and inefficient people - like a lot of business in Dubai too much business, high staff turnover and insufficient training . At least that has been my experience. If you get frustrated then copy e mails to [email protected] who is the boss and then sometimes the staff will react. If Barclays are asking for a document then surely they should provide the template rather than you asking in this forum. By the way a document that needs to be attested before the UAE embassy/consulate needs to be signed before a notary public where you live then attested by the relevant gov ministry where you live that recognises notary signatures and then taken to the UAE embassy. Ring the embassy and ask about procedures but this will cost you a lot ( far more than you might expect) and will take time. Barclays seem to be taking advice from local lawyers in Dubai who are fixated with attestation at the UAE embassy. If you do make it past all the hurdles Barclays puts up to piss off customers then you will deserve a medal !! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !! BTW Barclays start charging mthly payments as soon as they make any installment payment unlike others who only start charging on completion. I think some might roll up the interest but agtain CHECK THE DETAILS.


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## Krazy

^^ thanks for the info. Quite frankly, saskia has provided me with a much more detailed description of what Barclays require than Barclays agents themselves, and for this I'm really thankful to saskia.

As for the attestation requirements, you're right. When I called the UAE embassy today, they told me about these requirements and I was told that I could do all this by myself or I could choose to go with a company called ASAP Documents (which the embassy recommend themselves), and they would get everything done for me within 5 business days, for a fee of 120 dollars. In addition to this, UAE embassy charges 30 dollars.

I also need to get my passport photocopy attested by a local notary. 

It's ridiculous that Barclay's hasnt given me a template of the kinda letter they require attested. I will keep trying, in the mean time I hope saskia can help me out.

Also, the reason we chose to go with Barclays, despite them charging interest immediately after they make the first payment, is because of their lower interest rates compared to the ridiculous rates quoted by amlak, their reputation and their low early settlement fee of dhs 3000. I hope I've made the right decision, as my choices are very limited.


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## saskia

^^ 
Krazy, 

Barclays provide you with a standard form for the attestation of your address. All you need to do is fill in your address and sign it. I am not sure how it works in the US, but we then took it to our local municipality office, who attested the form (took ten minutes). Subsequently, the Dutch ministry of foreign affairs legalised it (ten minutes again) followed by the UAE embassy in the Netherlands (this takes one day and cost 40 Euros). 

We were lucky that all the above offices are located in our city (The Hague), so we did not have to travel far or courier documents - it would be a real pain if you have to travel to the other side of the country...

Within Barclays, there are a few good people in the mortgage department who will be able to provide you with the standard form. Try Amanda Reeves - she is manager of the mortgage sales department. Email: [email protected] - tel +97143636778 (mobile: +97150 6408532). Head of the admin department is Julie Viine ([email protected]) - tel +97150 6525731 (Julie is off sick today - if you need help today, contact her assistant Deidra Faria - [email protected])

Phil Ward does not work at Barclays anymore, he has been replace by Shaun Kotwal ([email protected]).

On another note, I have just heard that Emaar has increased its mortgage registration fee from 3000 to 5000 dirhams... A lot of money for a little bit of admin!

Krazy, let me know if you need any other info, we are going through the process at the moment and I know it can be a real hassle!


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## Krazy

^^ thanks saskia, so is the barclays declaration for non residents the only form that has to be attested by the UAE embassy? I mean, there is no need for my electric bill, bank statements etc to be attested by the embassy right?? This whole thing is getting very confusing due to the lack of proper communication


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## V Kapoor

delete


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## Morrismarina

I don't think Krazy has removed any posts or banned people for this Investment thread........may be for the construction threads where people have been talking investment, which is fair enough IMO.........I actually find Krazy's posts very helpful as I may be trying Barclays for a mortgage myself shortly and I'm very interested in the procedures. So leave Krazy alone.


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## Dubai_Steve

I agree, this is an investment thread, watching how a mortgage application goes is useful for everyone.


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## saskia

> thanks saskia, so is the barclays declaration for non residents the only form that has to be attested by the UAE embassy? I mean, there is no need for my electric bill, bank statements etc to be attested by the embassy right?? This whole thing is getting very confusing due to the lack of proper communication



No, no need for utility bills or any other documents - you simply need to declare you live at the address indicated by yourself on the form. 

I agree with you on the lack of communication - we have had to courier various documents on two different occasions as the bank had 'forgotten' to ask for them earlier (they did admit they made a mistake and paid for all couriers though...). Once all the paper work is done, it will go quite quickly - we submitted the final documents a week ago and heard today that our application has been accepted and will be registered in the next week or so. 

Would recommend you keep in very regular touch with the bank - you will need to chase them for confirmations of receipt of documents etc. Contact Amanda Reeves or Julie Vine for this, I found these two ladies the most useful. Feel free to mention my name (Saskia) if you want.


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## saskia

^^ 
Forgot to mention: keep in mind that registration of the mortgage with Emaar will take anywhere from five working days to two weeks...


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## Krazy

^^ thanks saskia, I managed to get the notaries done today. Now I have to wait for a week to 10 days before I get my UAE Embassy attested copy of the address certification. 

I know I'm not going to be able to get the mortage arranged in time to avoid Emaar's late fee (1% every month). So I've given up on that... I just hope I can get this out of the way sooner than later. I will keep everyone updated.


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## Salty

Good luck Krazy. 

Here's something from today's Khaleej Times to cheer you up and reassure you that you are doing the right thing by investing in Dubai property:

*Project delays to avert oversupply*
15 February 2007 

DUBAI — With at least 50 per cent of the ongoing residential projects expected to be delayed by up to two years beyond their scheduled completion in 2008, there will be little room for oversupply in Dubai's property sector over the next five years, according to leading market analysts.

Dismissing the current over supply projections on Dubai's property sector, RichVille Advisory Group yesterday said there will be an additional demand on residential units by around 480,000 as Dubai's population is poised to grow to 2.5 million by 2010. While the expected projects scheduled for completion by 2010 do not exceed 500,000 residential units and since most of these would not be completed by 2008 as scheduled, there will be no room for oversupply and a price drop, it said.

"We do not expect most of the developments to be actually completed by 2008 as scheduled, given the construction progress of these projects, the difficulty of finding good contractors, as well as the cash flow management from the developers," it said while giving much brighter outlook for the real estate market. "While we agree with the experts’ interpretation of the available statistics which suggesting some sort of correction or softening in certain real estate segments, we believe that there are several measures and factors that can offset any risk of a market downturn," RichVille report said.

"Our expectation is that the population will actually double over the coming five years, especially once all the 'specialised free zones' are completed by 2008/ 2009. Furthermore, the population mix will also shift to more high and mid-high income professionals, when in the past the majority was mid-low and low-income professionals as well as many labourers," the report said.

According to Tariq Ramadan, chairman and CEO of RichVille, the current over supply projections are mostly limited to high-end properties and does not take into consideration the fact that almost 50 per cent of the demand on such high-end units actually comes from second homebuyers (not investors) from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Northern Emirates, as well as Qatar. "More Europeans also started to buy second homes in Dubai. These buyers create a significant demand on such units, way beyond population growth rates."

"Current return on investment in the residential market is above 12 per cent. In addition, there is a price appreciation of around 20 to 30 per cent as projects are completed. As long-term returns, these are considered significantly higher than international rates. As explained above, we do not expect a significant gap between supply and demand over the coming five years, however, should there be any over supply for certain periods, we expect that returns will always be attractive and above international standards, at least for the foreseeable future," the company said. 

The report noted that most historic sales were driven by speculators who drove the "quick" sales of several projects. "However, with the increased construction cost and prices, this target segment is disappearing. This makes of the market more of a real one, based on end-buyers as well as long-term investors. In other words, demand form the "true" buyer of projects has not declined, but actually is increasing especially since many projects are getting close to completion."

According to the report, Dubai's office market is currently offering one of the highest returns worldwide, while prices are considerably below international average. 

The current return on offices exceeds 20 per cent, and it is expected to increase over the coming two years. 

"The current office space available in Dubai is around 12 million sq m, and is expected to increase to over 30 million sq m over the coming five years. Current occupancy rates are around 99 per cent and are expected to maintain their position for at least the next two years. With the significantly increasing current demand, office rents are also expected to increase by 30 per cent to 40 per cent over the coming two years."

However, the report noted that in the unlikely case that demand does not keep up with supply over the coming five years, occupancy rates will not go under 75 per cent, which is higher than market averages around the world. "Furthermore, return on office rental income will likely continue to be higher than current rates and significantly above international averages."


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## Krazy

that is a very encouraging article indeed.. let's see how things hold up for Dubai.. I still feel JBR handover will be the first big jolt for Dubai's real estate market


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## dubaiquote

Qucik questions , 

Omniyat - good company to invest with?

Ipad - Good investment ?


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## Krazy

One more article pointing out how valuable commercial freehold in Dubai is


*Dubai office rents among most expensive in world*


Offices in Dubai are the 10th most expensive in the world, with average annual rental costs touching Dh291.7 ($79.93) per square feet in 2006, the world’s second largest real estate brokerage said yesterday.

Cushman & Wakefield, the New York-based brokerage, said that the Middle East and Africa has seen the most buoyant growth, with rents rising by 32 per cent on back of rising oil prices over the past few years and strong levels of foreign investment.

In its Office Space Across the World study, the company said office markets in both Dubai and Abu Dhabi have performed extremely well in 2006, but both the cities have a dearth of prime space and high demand is pushing up rental values as a result.

“There is limited new space at present, although the pipeline for 2007 is larger, particularly in Dubai where this is likely to put an end to very large rental rises by next year. In Abu Dhabi, the pipeline is smaller and is unlikely to satisfy demand in the short term.” The market with the highest rental value in the region was Kuwait, where rents were Dh284.7 ($78) per square foot. Kuwait also had the second highest level of rental growth, moving up 41 per cent during 2006.

Abu Dhabi’s rental growth rose by 200 per cent, the highest growth rate in the world by some distance.

“Economic growth will continue to be driven by Asia, but Central and Eastern Europe and the Middle East are also likely to outperform world average growth rates,” Ken McCarthy, managing director for research services at Cushman said. Rents are expected to increase 100 per cent in Middle East and Africa locations, while no market in either region is expecting a drop in demand.

The region’s property markets are likely to continue to do well. Lebanese interests are widely expected to bounce back next year.

Rents rose in 74 per cent of the 211 markets in 51 countries surveyed and declined only six per cent. The world’s most expensive office markets last year were London’s West End, with average occupancy costs of Dh898.5 per square foot; Tokyo’s central business district, at Dh667.5 per square foot; Hong Kong, at Dh648.9, and Paris; at Dh452.5.

London and Paris maintained their year-earlier rankings, while Tokyo and Hong Kong switched positions.


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## qwazy

*Apartments in Dubai Marina?*

Hi,

I am not a regular to the dubai forum but I do check it every now and then. I was considering buying 2 apartments in dubai marina, a 2 bedroom one for myself, and another suitable one as an investment. I wanted to ask you guys a few things.

1. How is Dubai marina as an overall location in Dubai? I mean it is a really nice place, and, it is good value for money when you compare the cheap prices of dubai marina to the prices in the rest of dubai, e.g. in the palms. What do you guys think? What are you're views on this?

2. Should I buy Emaar built apartments or other company built apartments? Which ones are better and why? I really liked the offerings of Trident Internation Holdings such as the bayside residence, marinascape, trident grand residence. Really liked the idea of "smart" homes and ocean like swimming pools and oxygen bars. Among Emaar's offerings, I liked the Quays, but it didnt have innovative features like the Trident ones

3. What is best apartment size to buy for investment? 1 bedroom? 2? Studio?
And what do you think the future of Dubai's real estate market is, for instance what do u think will be the price of an apartment in Dubai marina in 5 years time that today I pay 1 million AED for?

4. What is the best way to buy apartments in Dubai marina? Direct from developers or through real estate agents or something? I don't have much knowledge about the dubai real estate market. Also how many more apartment buildings are coming up for Dubai marina and when will it be completely finished? I can only buy something during the summer. What will be on offer then?


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## IISinbadII

Here is my *non-expert* opinion.



qwazy said:


> I am not a regular to the dubai forum but I do check it every now and then. I was considering buying 2 apartments in dubai marina, a 2 bedroom one for myself, and another suitable one as an investment.


If you want to buy two apartments I would suggest buy one in Marina and other at some other place like "Burj Dubai Complex" for investment. This would give you a little diversity.



> 1. How is Dubai marina as an overall location in Dubai? I mean it is a really nice place, and, it is good value for money when you compare the cheap prices of dubai marina to the prices in the rest of dubai, e.g. in the palms. What do you guys think? What are you're views on this?


There are cheaper places than Marina like JLT, etc. But from what I have seen Marina is a nice place esp if you can buy an apartment with a nice view like this (see photo).












> 2. Should I buy Emaar built apartments or other company built apartments? Which ones are better and why? I really liked the offerings of Trident Internation Holdings such as the bayside residence, marinascape, trident grand residence. Really liked the idea of "smart" homes and ocean like swimming pools and oxygen bars. Among Emaar's offerings, I liked the Quays, but it didnt have innovative features like the Trident ones


I would say go for Emaar. I like their quality. Also they are known for delevering on time (or even before time). 



> 3. What is best apartment size to buy for investment? 1 bedroom? 2? Studio?


Smaller units are said to move fast. Meaning they would sell quickly as less money is involved. I could only guess that they would go out on rent fast too. On the down side, studios and 1 BR units are usually located on the side or back of the buildings so they dont have the best views.



> And what do you think the future of Dubai's real estate market is, for instance what do u think will be the price of an apartment in Dubai marina in 5 years time that today I pay 1 million AED for?


No one can see the future. But with cost of construction going up and possibe increase in value of the UAE dirham it is possible that property prices will appriciate ove the next 5 to 10 years. In short term we are expecting a price and rent correction. 

Long term it is all about what Dubai will become once the Mega projects finish. Dubai today is like Manhattan in 1920 or so. Soon you will have the Metro, the worlds tallest tower and Disney style parks........




> 4. What is the best way to buy apartments in Dubai marina? Direct from developers or through real estate agents or something? I don't have much knowledge about the dubai real estate market.


Buy directly from developer. This way you will save brokerage commision and transfer fees etc. Besides it is quicker and you will feel more comfortable dealing with the developer directly.



> Also how many more apartment buildings are coming up for Dubai marina and when will it be completely finished? I can only buy something during the summer. What will be on offer then?


There is still a lot of space in Marina. So expect many more buildings to come. Also if you ure not able to buy at base price you may be able to buy with some premium.

One more thing hang out in this forum and you will learn a lot.........and read the following thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=439973

Feel free to ask questions and discuss. This way we all learn.


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## Dubai_Steve

IISinbadII said:


> In short term we are expecting a price and rent correction.


I do not expect this to happen anymore because of the delays in projects, demand will outstrip supply. I think 2007 will continue to see price increases. Best to buy something quickly. A resale unit in marina heights tower is worth considering if you find one at a good price. Can then rent it out straight away and generate income now.

My choice would be 1 in the Marina + 1 in Burj Dubai tower or some Office space.


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## qwazy

office space sounds interesting? where would i look for that?

secondly, what about buying something as an investment in Abu Dhabi?

They have been introducing a lot of new projects in AD recently


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## Morrismarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> I do not expect this to happen anymore because of the delays in projects, demand will outstrip supply. I think 2007 will continue to see price increases. Best to buy something quickly. A resale unit in marina heights tower is worth considering if you find one at a good price. Can then rent it out straight away and generate income now.
> 
> My choice would be 1 in the Marina + 1 in Burj Dubai tower or some Office space.


Steve, do you know of any one beds for sale in MH and price ??


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## Dubai_Steve

^^ www.marinaheightstower.net


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## dubaiflo

Commercial space to be completed soon is a very good possibility to make money in a short period of time.

it is similar to the residential market two years ago.


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## Dubai_Steve

Which towers do you recommend flo ?


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## IISinbadII

Yeh, it would be nice if someone could educate us about Office and Commercial space. What are some good developments (Business Bay?) and towers. Thanks.


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## dubaiflo

Dubai_Steve said:


> Which towers do you recommend flo ?


i am pretty much into omniyat and those koreans..


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## qwazy

yea. anybody know about office and commercial space around here?


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## sameerl

Office space is currently available in JLT. Business Bay, Silicon Oasis, IMPZ, and in some developments in Dubailand (City of Arabia etc).

In JLT district, prices range anywhere from 875 psf to 1550 psf (the latter for completed proejcts like Saba Tower), and close to completed ones (like Palladium, Indigo etc). 

In Saba Tower, the rents currently range from AED 175 psf to 225 psf, making the yields very attractive.


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## IISinbadII

@ sameerl 

Is it true that JLT is a free zone like Jabal Ali? Also what do you think about the Business Bay for Office space and what are the prices there. Thanks.


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## sameerl

IISinbadII

Yes its true, JLT is a multi purpose freezone, the bylaws of which can be found on their website www.jlt.ae.

Business Bay prices vary from AED 950 psf to AED 1400 psf depending upon the developer/location. I think that Business Bay's proximity to Burj Dubai makes it superior in the medium/long term...but if you're looking for immediate rental returns, as well as capitalize on the current short term shortage of commercial space, go for JLT...Buildings like the Palldium/Indigo/Saba/1 Lake Plaza, and others which are due for completion in the current year(Saba is already complete) should rise higher in price in my opinion as companies currently have little choice in office space.


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## rexdmx

there is a good office in saba tower for around 1570dhs/sq ft all in which came with 2 extra car parkings. quite nice huh?


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## heatstor

Whats a good place to see what properties are available and at what prices both completed and under construction. 
For example, in the US, everyone goes to realtor.com

Asim.


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## ferrari430

today from ameinfo

The Richville Advisory Group report sums up many of the most optimistic claims about the Dubai market and takes a very bright view of the future. However, even a cursory analysis of the numbers in this brief document should sound alarm bells to readers. 

The report says 'Our expectation is that the population will actually double over the coming five years', and then notes 'We expect the population of Dubai to grow to 2.5 million by 2010, leading to an additional demand on residential units by around 480,000.' 

Then the document adds: 'The expected projects scheduled for completion by 2010 do not exceed 500,000 residential units'. So nothing much to worry about there perhaps! 


2010 outlook
Now let us first point out that 2010 is in fact three years away, and not five years, which is a major error. So will the population of Dubai double in the next three years to take up the forecast completion of residential property? Well, it is possible with mass immigration in a regional crisis but hardly likely and certainly not expected by the Dubai Government. 

Besides, even if 500,000 new residential units were to be needed by 2010 how many people would be able to afford this sort of accommodation? The Dubai population profile includes a large percentage of workers earning low salaries, and this is often forgotten in the most optimistic projections about future demand. 

Richville Advisory Group counters with the argument that 'almost 50 per cent of the demand for such high-end units actually comes from second home buyers'. That might or might not be true, but what about the other 50 per cent? 


Government action
Then the report suggests several measures that the Dubai Government could take to support the market. Other market commentators such as Standard Chartered Bank have also noted that the Government could manage the market in a crisis but still predict a softening of prices. 

The Richville suggestions are very contentious: automatic residency for buyers; making Business Bay a free zone; central bank changes to make mortgages cheaper and easier to obtain; and delaying mega projects while the market absorbs the new supply of property. 

But you still have to ask yourself, is this going to be enough to provide the wealthy population required to occupy the new luxury property developments now being built in Dubai? If you do not think so then the inescapable conclusion is that the more pessimistic surveys predicting a significant market correction in 2008-10 are correct.


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## ferrari430

...


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## Morrismarina

DubaiFive0 said:


> I have a Emirates savings accounts but it lets me do all of the above + more. Just checking now and it has in built payments for DEWA, Etisalat, Dubai Police! and options for bank to bank transfer and Telegraphic Transfer (hope to be using this soon!).


Thanks for the info.... this sounds great, but solves only half of the problems NOT "all of the above + more "". 
So how DO YOU actually pay all the other stuff from your Emirates account. ie. your developer the annual service fees for your apartment, the electrician/plumber for the repair work, the mortgage and contents insurance premiums (as Dubai banks do not operate direct debits) possible refund of rent to tenant....etc.etc ???


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## Imre

DEWA bills you can pay directly here after registration http://www.dewa.gov.ae/ 

Dubai Police fines here: http://www.dubaipolice.gov.ae/dp/english/e_services.jsp?Page=A344&dPg=1&isEng=true

you need just a credit card , no need local bank account..


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## Morrismarina

Imre said:


> DEWA bills you can pay directly here after registration http://www.dewa.gov.ae/
> 
> Dubai Police fines here: http://www.dubaipolice.gov.ae/dp/english/e_services.jsp?Page=A344&dPg=1&isEng=true
> 
> you need just a credit card , no need local bank account..


I'm still not sure about this........

1) how easy is it to get a credit card from Emirates Bank when you live and work outside of the UAE ??? 
2) how likely is it your developer will be registered with Visa/Mastercard ??
3) and even more likely that the local guy who fixes the repairs will take a credit card ???
4) And.........will your tenant really have Visa/Mastercard facility when you need to pay a him back his security deposit or rent refund ???

:nuts:


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## IISinbadII

Morrismarina said:


> I'm still not sure about this........
> 
> 1) how easy is it to get a credit card from Emirates Bank when you live and work outside of the UAE ???
> 2) how likely is it your developer will be registered with Visa/Mastercard ??
> 3) and even more likely that the local guy who fixes the repairs will take a credit card ???
> 4) And.........will your tenant really have Visa/Mastercard facility when you need to pay a him back his security deposit or rent refund ???
> 
> :nuts:


Good points.


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## Imre

I wrote only Dewa and Dubai Police... any credit cards is good for them..


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## DubaiFive0

Morrismarina said:


> Thanks for the info.... this sounds great, but solves only half of the problems NOT "all of the above + more "".
> So how DO YOU actually pay all the other stuff from your Emirates account. ie. your developer the annual service fees for your apartment, the electrician/plumber for the repair work, the mortgage and contents insurance premiums (as Dubai banks do not operate direct debits) possible refund of rent to tenant....etc.etc ???


Your better off getting a residence visa with your apartment and getting a 'proper' account with credit card and all.

However, with a 'visitors' savings account you can pay the:

1) Developers annual maintenance fees: bank to bank or TT (telegraphic transfer) same way I guess a lot of people are paying their installments but from the UK
2) Refund rent deposit: bank to bank or TT
3) DEWA: direct from bank account or as Imre pointed out can even use your existing VISA etc. credit card sitting in your armchair in the UK (Thanks Imre kay: did exactly that last week after you told me!)
4) Mortgage: Good luck getting one if your not a resident! Not sure about this, seen an option for standing intruction (SI) but unaware if you can use it for this purpose. 
5) electrician/plumber for the repair work: hmmm I think for the 1st year the developers are normally responsible for any repairs etc. After that your better off using a management company to look after things like that otherwise you have no idea if the repair man is pulling a fast one. If your going to go down the short term rental route then they can look after the majority of the above anyway (for a 25% cut you would hope so too!). This is not normally included in long term rentals but can be provided for a fee (except for the mortgage part).


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## Dubai_Steve

What do you think about Mina Al Arab in RAK - can buy a 1 bed there for AED 350k with only 5% down and 10% in 6 months then 10% in 12 months - could sell on before 1 year and double your investment ?


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## Morrismarina

DubaiFive0 said:


> Your better off getting a residence visa with your apartment and getting a 'proper' account with credit card and all.
> 
> However, with a 'visitors' savings account you can pay the:
> 
> 1) Developers annual maintenance fees: bank to bank or TT (telegraphic transfer) same way I guess a lot of people are paying their installments but from the UK
> 2) Refund rent deposit: bank to bank or TT
> 3) DEWA: direct from bank account or as Imre pointed out can even use your existing VISA etc. credit card sitting in your armchair in the UK (Thanks Imre kay: did exactly that last week after you told me!)
> 4) Mortgage: Good luck getting one if your not a resident! Not sure about this, seen an option for standing intruction (SI) but unaware if you can use it for this purpose.
> 5) electrician/plumber for the repair work: hmmm I think for the 1st year the developers are normally responsible for any repairs etc. After that your better off using a management company to look after things like that otherwise you have no idea if the repair man is pulling a fast one. If your going to go down the short term rental route then they can look after the majority of the above anyway (for a 25% cut you would hope so too!). This is not normally included in long term rentals but can be provided for a fee (except for the mortgage part).



Good reply. The bank to bank transfer sounds like it will do the job in most circumstances then, would just need to obtain the bank account details for whoever you need to pay ie. developer, tenant, repair man, etc... And as it's internet based could even do this from the UK. I reckon this will cover most circumstances then. 
And I'm really pleased I can pay my traffic fines so easily :lol:


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## IISinbadII

DubaiFive0 said:


> can even use your existing VISA etc. credit card sitting in your armchair in the UK


Convinient but expensive! They may charge you extra for use abroad and exchange conversion. Read "Terms and Conditions" or check with your credit card provider first.


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## DubaiFive0

IISinbadII said:


> Convinient but expensive! If you use your credit card to pay in another country in another currency they may charge you extra fee in % for exchange conversion. It happens all the time with people who travel and use credit card abroad. Better check with your credit card company.


True! Almost all cards secretly add a ‘load’, an extra charge usually of 2.75% when spending in a foreing country, worse still, it isn’t broken down on statements so you won’t notice:mad2: . One of the only credit cards that doesn't do this is Nationwide (hence the reason why I got one!) I've been to Dubai 3 times in the past 6 months and its the only one I use (when I have to) for car hire etc. 

Most payments using credit card normally incur a fee, this is also true for DEWA payments online via CC (aprox £1 at the moment). So the armchair scenario was a one off until I get some money (from rent) into my Emirates acc.
But its nice to know that you can do it and saves me worrying about being disconnected before a tenant moves in.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> What do you think about Mina Al Arab in RAK - can buy a 1 bed there for AED 350k with only 5% down and 10% in 6 months then 10% in 12 months - could sell on before 1 year and double your investment ?


Before you buy ask yourself these questions:

-What makes this property/location unique? (extra room, space, view, proximity to a shopping center, major road, metro station, tourist attraction, beach, airport, free zone, school, college, etc).

-What am I getting extra for free with the property (parking space, access to a garden, fitted kitchen).

-How is the layout (attached bathroom/dress room, powder room, balcony, utility space, etc).

-Is the price at par with other area buildings? How much extra do I have to pay in brokerage, tranfer fee, registration (other hiden costs).

-How are the surroundings, neighbourhood. Is it in an upscale safe locality? 

-How far is the petrol station, news stand/shop, school, ATM, etc.

-How far drive is it from city centre/downtown.

-How are the access roads and traffic situation during rush hour.

-Any risk of flooding, fire, etc. Any nearby factory, smoke, noise problem, etc.

-Is the developer known for its quality, reliablity, delevers on time, etc.

-Will my view be obstructed after 5 years when another tower comes up in front of my window?

-Will I be able to sell easily? Who will buy the property from me in a down or slow market.

-If I am unable to sell, will it rent out?

-If not, am I willing to live in it?


----------



## dubaiflo

We are still looking at properties below 3.5m Dhs to buy as soon as possible and to be completed as soon as possible.

But there is nothing which fits perfect for me for some reason..

any ideas?


----------



## IISinbadII

dubaiflo said:


> We are still looking at properties below 3.5m Dhs to buy as soon as possible and to be completed as soon as possible.
> 
> But there is nothing which fits perfect for me for some reason..
> 
> any ideas?


In that price range one should be looking for small villas or townhouses. Have you checked Arabian Ranches? You get Emaar quality plus many of them are ready.

Here are some examples:

3 Bedrooms 2,437 sq. ft. AED 2,550,906 (Better Homes Ref: VI 56971)

3 Bedrooms 2,936 sq. ft. AED 2,958,000 (Better Homes Ref: VI 8252)


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## IISinbadII

Sorry but I could not find the thread on Arabian Ranches. Wonder what would be the prices starting from?
-------

*Emaar unveils Alma lakefront townhomes at Arabian Ranches*

Dubai, UAE, February 25, 2007: Emaar Properties is launching picturesque lakefront townhomes located centrally within its established Arabian Ranches residential development. The independent gated community, named Alma, a Spanish word meaning ‘soul,’ will feature two-storeyed townhomes ranging in size from 2,400 sq ft to 3,150 sq ft. Pre-registration for sales will be announced soon and sales will start on Saturday, March 3, 2007.

Arabian Ranches is a thriving residential neighbourhood spread over 1,650 acres with over 4,000 homes. The Alma townhomes suit the requirements of potential home-owners looking for elegant residences within an established community. 

“Alma townhomes will feature Spanish-style architecture and offer views of the Arabian Ranches Golf Course, community park or the lake,” said Ms Bahiya Kayed, Assistant Director of Sales, Emaar Properties. “These are perfect buys – as homes or as an investment option – and will appeal to those who are looking for a much-preferred living address in Dubai. The Alma homes are centrally located within Arabian Ranches, and therefore offer residents easy access to all amenities, with some of the units having direct access to the Village Community Centre,” added Ms Kayed. 

Arabian Ranches is one of the most sought after residential developments in Dubai and is acclaimed for its leisure components – the Arabian Ranches Golf Course and the Dubai Polo and Equestrian Club. Additionally, the development integrates the Jumeirah English Speaking School, lakes, landscaped gardens, retail areas, fitness facilities and community centres. 

Arabian Ranches is located away from the hustle and bustle of the city and yet offers convenient access to Dubai’s thriving nerve-centres such as the Dubai Media City, Dubai Internet City and Jebel Ali Free Zone. Located within a desert stretch that has been efficiently landscaped to offer green relief, the development is near the Global Village and Dubai Autodrome at the junction of three key ring roads. 

“Accessibility is one of the key considerations these days in making home investment decisions,” said Ms Kayed. “The direct access to the three ring roads that lead to Abu Dhabi and Sharjah greatly enhances the convenience of residents in Arabian Ranches.”

Potential homeowners can visit Downtown Burj Dubai sales centre for more details on Arabian Ranches or the Alma townhomes community. They can also call toll-free 800-EMAAR (800-36227).


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## dubaimat

Curious about hearing something from someone who lately has been to Arabian Ranches or who is living there. Besides that there are some nice properties, not mentioning e.g. some of the Hattan Villas and the Golf course! the location is the greatest pain in the axx, when it comes to getting there or getting back once you made it. 
We have friends living there. In order to get to work at Media City and back home it takes them more than 3 hours every day, no matter which road they (try) to take.


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## IISinbadII

What do you guys think about the new *Dubai eGovernment Prepaid Cards* to pay utility bills, buy grocery, do shopping, etc. What if the card is lost or stollen. Has anyone used these cards and are there any fees or hidden charges. Thanks


----------



## Imre

Marinas
At least two further large marinas will be built on The Palm Jumeirah, located
on either side of the trunk. Facilities will include an upland clubhouse on a
grand and luxurious scale for The Palm Jumeirah main yacht club, as well
as marina offices and a capitainerie.
Island Global Yachting (IGY) is the world’s leading marina company
with projects under management and developments worldwide. IGY is
designing, developing and managing marinas and mega-yacht facilities
to a 5-star hotel standard, previously unheard of in this sector.
Befitting the name, Marina Residences on The Palm Jumeirah offers
its residents panoramic marina and island views spanning the Arabian
Gulf and Dubai coastline. At the doorstep of each tower is one of
Dubai’s largest marinas, Anchor Marina, with berths for over 700
vessels and world-class facilities.
Access to the marina’s clubhouse and the finest marina leisure
facilities will allow residents to live the Riviera lifestyle providing
the ultimate waterfront lifestyle experience.

Panoramic
Located at the tip of The Trunk of The Palm Jumeirah, Marina Residences’
six towers rest on landscaped podiums. The towers rise to form a ‘v’ shape,
maximising the sea views outwards, while the architecture of the towers
echoes that of the region with arabesque forms and colouring. Featuring
exceptional unit layouts and balconies surrounded by calm, azure waters,
year-round sunshine and exceptional waterfront views, Marina Residences
offers high-rise living on The Palm Jumeirah, where an exclusive address
meets a central location.







Amenities
Outstanding amenities and services are available to residents of the
community. Technology features include high-speed Internet access and
‘future technology-ready’ features, and homes are cable TV-, telephone-
and entertainment system-ready. Safety is also top-of-mind, realised by a
state-of-the-art security system, high quality switches and outlets, CCTV
monitoring of public areas, and secure undercover car parking facilities.
For the health and well-being of residents, membership to an exclusive
club surrounded by landscaped gardens is also available, with facilities
including a gym, Jacuzzi, swimming pool and children’s pool and play
area. A concierge desk at the main entry of each building is ready to serve
the everyday needs of residents.

Finishes
Finishes, available in classic or contemporary styles, accentuate the
craftsmanship and thoughtfulness that go into each and every Marina
Residences apartment. From full body porcelain tiles, stainless steel
sinks and branded appliances to timber floors, stone vanity tops and
full height wall tiles, Marina Residences offers the choice and high
standards one would expect from a home on The Palm.

Unit A
3 Bedroom
Internal Area 342 sqm - 3685 sqft
Terrace Area 51 sqm - 548 sqft
Total Area 393 sqm - 4233 sqft

Unit C
2 Bedroom
Internal Area 148 sqm - 1593 sqft
Terrace Area 20 sqm - 215 sqft
Total Area 168 sqm - 1808 sqft

Unit D
2 Bedroom
Internal Area 153 sqm - 1647 sqft
Terrace Area 31 sqm - 334 sqft
Total Area 184 sqm - 1981 sqft
B B
D D

Unit B
3 Bedroom
Internal Area 196 sqm - 2110 sqft
Terrace Area 38 sqm - 409 sqft
Total Area 234 sqm - 2519 sqft

Destined to be a residential, tourism and boating
paradise, The Palm Jumeirah was launched in 2001. In only five years
since the first grain of sand was laid in the Arabian Gulf, Nakheel has
begun handing over properties to the island’s first residents.
Construction work for The Palm Monorail, which began in March 2006,
is scheduled for completion in December 2008. This will transport
2,000 to 3,000 people per hour on and off the island and will stop at four
main stations: on land at the Gateway Tower, the Trump International
Hotel and Tower, the luxury shopping centre, and will terminate at
The Crescent at Atlantis.
Progress Soil improvement on the Marina Residences site was completed in mid-
October 2006 with structural works commencing on the towers in
December 2006. The structural completion of towers is expected by
the end of 2007, with final finishing works projected for completion
in December 2008.
The preliminary master planning of the marinas was completed in October
2005. Each Marina on The Palm Jumeirah is currently undergoing the
Concept Design Review Phase. Nakheel Marinas and IGY work closely
with Dubai Municipality to ensure that cultural and environmental
considerations are satisfied.

Launch prices:
A type: 5.7-6.5 M dhs
B type: 3.3-4.1 M dhs
C type: 2.5 - 3.1 M dhs
D type: 2.3-2.7 M dhs

If you want to buy something before public launch or just need more info call Judy (+971 50 515 1065) or email [email protected]


----------



## Imre

..


----------



## Krazy

*Delays hit 'volatile' property market*



UAE mortgage provider Tamweel predicts that construction delays could reduce the number of houses delivered to tenants in 2007 by one third.

The company had expected a handover of 54,000 units this year, with 36,000 now expected to be delivered, according to CEO Adel Abdul Aziz Al Shirawi.

He said that real estate developers and mortgage financiers in the Middle East should focus on medium and low-cost developments to ensure a sustained return on investment.

Al Shirawi added that, given the cyclical nature of GCC economies, medium and low-cost developments and commercial projects would witness less price fluctuation in the longer term than more high-cost developments.

According to him, developers are still launching projects based on early studies, which predicted high overall demand for housing.

"Developers should dynamically evaluate demand and supply situations and the volatile and fluctuating nature of the real estate sector in the region. More careful analysis of the nature of the demand for housing shows that the situation has begun to change, and developers need to address the increasing demand for medium and low-cost housing," he said.


----------



## dubaiflo

^^ wise guy.


----------



## glover

^^ 
i wouldn't be surprised if 5.5 was completed within 14 months, so probably mid 2008.


----------



## googly

Krazy said:


> ^^ From an investment point of view with gains in the near future, I'd go with Burj Dubai Downtown or Dubai Marina....


I have heard that Emaar properties are usually sold out on launch day. Why is it then that Emaar is still selling its properties in Dubai Marina? Does this mean that Dubai Marina is not a good place to invest?


----------



## glover

^^ 
LOL


----------



## IISinbadII

googly said:


> I have heard that Emaar properties are usually sold out on launch day. Why is it then that Emaar is still selling its properties in Dubai Marina? Does this mean that Dubai Marina is not a good place to invest?


Here is my understanding. Emaar does not offer everything on launch day. They hold a number of units that they sell from time to time, at a premium, i.e. they add a % to the original price and sell more units latter at a higher price. Its not just with Marina, this is the case with other Emaar develpments too.


----------



## mission

For long term let is it easier to rent as a unfurnished or furnished.

My understanding is that companies in Dubai give furniture allowances to there employees

Any ideas


----------



## smussuw

^^ It depends on the company


----------



## Krazy

^^ so what did you decide?


----------



## smussuw

^^ I gave up as usual


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> Here is my understanding. Emaar does not offer everything on launch day. They hold a number of units that they sell from time to time, at a premium, i.e. they add a % to the original price and sell more units latter at a higher price. Its not just with Marina, this is the case with other Emaar develpments too.


Can you tell me what the launch price of a 1 bed apt in Marina Promenade was? Emaar is currently selling for Dhs 900K. It would be interesting to calculate their premium.

BTW, Marina was the only place Emaar was able to offer me an apartment...apparently they are sold out at all other places.


----------



## IISinbadII

googly said:


> Can you tell me what the launch price of a 1 bed apt in Marina Promenade was? Emaar is currently selling for Dhs 900K. It would be interesting to calculate their premium.


As you know Marina Promenade has 6 towers. The price would be different from unit area, location, view, floor, etc. But to give you a an idea:

-The launch price for Paloma 1 BR was starting from AED 780,000
-The launch price for Aurora 1 BR was starting from AED 815,888

Also you can ask them about the individual apartment and they may tell you what the premium is roughly.



> BTW, Marina was the only place Emaar was able to offer me an apartment...apparently they are sold out at all other places


You may have gone to the office that deals with Marina. You see Emaar has several offices/sales centers that deal with different developments. For example the sales center near Greens deals with Marina and other developments like The Views, etc. Burj Dubai site has three offices one for Old Town, another for Downtown and third for the Mall/Retail. I suggest you go to or call all offices and they should be able to offer you more appartments at other places.


----------



## YounGun

*Jumeirah Lake Towers*

Hi all Jumeirah Lake Towers owners,

I must say this forum is awsome. After reading through this forum, I am thinking about purchasing a studio or 1 bedroom unit in the Jumeirah Lake Towers development, so I am going to through some questions to all you Dubai Property experts.

1. Which building in the Jumeirah Lake Towers would provide the best entry level ROI and rental return for the short term investment?

2. Which reputable agents are majority of Dubai investors are going through?

3. Which reputable lawyers are majority of Dubai investors are going through?

4. What is the current interest rates in Dubai? What is the process of aquiring a loan?

Thanks Heaps!

Cheers!


----------



## Naz UK

^^ The Wind.


Discuss.


----------



## True Blue

*Lengthy article but some good pointers for investors.*

*Hot property, or not?*
_by Diana Milne on Thursday, 01 March 2007 _

Cynthia Trench recalls her friends’ reactions when she announced in 2002 that she had decided to buy property on the Palm Jumeirah in Dubai.

“Some people I told thought I’d gone totally mad,” she says.

“A lot of people considered it to be a very risky venture.” And to a great extent they were right. 

Story continues below ↓ 
advertisement



At the time when Trench, a partner in the Dubai based law firm Trench & Associates, made her purchase, real estate freehold had just been released to expatriates for the first time and few property laws existed.

The concept of non-GCC nationals buying freehold property in the emirate was previously unheard of, many of the homes expatriates could buy had not yet been built and there was no clear indication of whether property values would rise or fall.

Yet five years later Trench is laughing all the way to the bank. She paid a 10% deposit for her US$707,848 (AED2.6m) property on the Palm then sold it just eight months later and made a 100% profit on her down payment. She then bought a property on the Arabian Ranches development for which she paid US$503,661 (AED1.85m) in November 2005 and which is now worth over US$817,000 (AED3m).

A lot has changed since Trench first jumped on the property bandwagon. Last year a law was issued formalising the rights of non-GCC nationals to buy freehold property in Dubai.

Property values in the emirate have rocketed and there are now thousands of properties to choose from.

They range in price from US$532 per square foot on The World development to US$134 per square foot in International City. Banks and financial institutions are suddenly falling over themselves to lend money to prospective buyers, some offering 90% mortgages. The number of “designated areas” where expats, not just locals, can buy properties is on the rise.

Yet Trench remains within a minority of expatriates who have taken the plunge and invested in Dubai’s booming property market. Many remain nervous about investing in what is a relatively immature market and prefer to rent instead, unsure of the true costs, risks, and long term viability of buying property in Dubai.

It means that rent is rising just as fast as property prices. Liz Hopkins, a 32-year-old television executive who rents a two-bedroom villa in the Springs has the money to invest in a Dubai property — but after looking into the process and taking advice from lawyers and accountants has decided to stay put.

“It would make sense for me financially to buy a property here because I pay so much in rent every month and I’ve got the capital. But I just feel uneasy about it all particularly as nobody can predict whether Dubai’s luck will suddenly change and prices will crash,” she says.

The unpredictability over whether property prices will rise or fall in Dubai over the next ten years, is one reason behind expats’ reluctance to buy. Property prices in the emirate are linked to supply and demand and so far the steady flow of expatriates into the country has seen property prices rocket.

According to Puniet Singh, commercial operations manager for Sherwoods Independent Property Consultants, prices increased by a massive 50% between 2004 and 2005 and averaged out at around a 30% rise in 2006.

“It’s been a demand driven growth because there’s been a strong influx of expatriates and rising income levels,” says Singh.

“Dubai’s future in the next ten years is about balancing out supply and demand. They are projecting population growth at anything between 5% to 8% per annum which would create a healthy demand for new units,” he adds. However he admits maintaining this level of growth could be a challenge for Dubai and that any slowdown in inward migration could lead to a balancing out or even fall in property market prices.

“Until now Dubai has shown every sign of measuring up to the challenge. But if demand is not regularly maintained then the supply might overflow the demand. And that’s when it could become a buyer’s market,” he warns.

Dubai based financier Stephen Corley, managing director of Paradigm — a strategic planning consultancy — believes it is impossible to make any firm prediction on whether house prices will rise or fall in Dubai. But he believes, particularly in the case of apartments, that supply will inevitably outstrip demand.

“At the moment, one can quite clearly say that as far as apartments are concerned in Dubai, supply is categorically at some stage, this year, next year or the year after, going to outpace demand. Economically, text book speaking, prices could fall.” However, he adds, anyone choosing to invest in property now is unlikely to lose out within the next ten years. “If you are going to buy on a ten-year basis, the balance is very much in your favour in terms of doing well out of it because you would be spending the money on rent anyway.”

Despite the fact that in recent years property prices in Dubai have risen sharply — they remain highly competitive when compared to those expats can expect to pay in places such as the UK.

Billy Rautenbach, director of operations for real estate firm Better Homes, believes you get “more bang for your buck” in Dubai with a range of prices to suit all budgets.

“If you came to Dubai with US$195,000 to spend you could buy much more for your money here than you could in London for example. And that’s in terms of size, location, all those things. If you look at locations like International City, investors can buy property there where the entry level is about US$81,674 (AED300,000). And I don’t know many other places in the world where you can buy a studio apartment for that kind of money.”

“Everyone thinks we only have high-end stuff but there are still properties where your entry level is quite low,” she goes on to say. In terms of mortgages, buyers now have a wide range to choose from with a number of local home finance companies and multinational banks offering up to 90% of the purchase price to UAE nationals and residents and up to 70% to non-residents. Some 100% deals are also reported to be filtering through.

The maximum mortgage that can be granted is US$1,361,247 (AED5m) and mortgages must be paid back in monthly installments within a period of 25 years. Buyers pay a process fee to the bank of around 1% of the loan amount, and a registration fee of around 0.5% of the loan amount. Currently interest rates are high, rising to as much as 9.5%.

“Everybody quotes ludicrous figures here for mortgages,” says Corley. “Mortgages are very high comparatively speaking.”

Singh describes the interest rates as “very high compared to the UK. We are looking at anything between 7.5% to 9.5%”. However he hopes that in future the influx of foreign companies now offering home financing in Dubai will lead to a more competitive market with lower interest rates.

“Today not only local financial institutions but also international financial institutions are entering the foray of providing mortgages. Hopefully that will create a more competitive scenario,” he adds.

When investing in properties in Dubai legal experts advise people to buy through an offshore company, rather than registering ownership of the property in their own name. This is because the law relating to inheritance of real estate in the UAE still needs clarification.

Article 17.1 of the civil transactions code specifically states that the law of domicile of the foreigner would apply upon death as to the distribution of the estate. But article 17.5 states that with regard to real estate, the laws of the UAE would apply.

“And that means a huge question mark because there are no laws of the UAE which apply to real estate distribution to foreigners. Some people say it’s governed by Sharia law and others say article 17.1 still applies and they apply the law of domicile,” explains Trench. “If a person buys a property through an offshore company however, their property is protected because the company itself cannot die. For the purposes of peace of mind it’s definitely recommended that you buy property in the name of an offshore company,” she adds.

“So let’s say you form a company in a tax haven like the British Virgin Islands and you own it 100% with your husband. If unfortunately your husband dies, the master developer wouldn’t be concerned at all because all they need to know is that the company that owns the property is still alive and kicking which of course it would be.”

Similarly if the sole shareholder of the company which owned the property died, the executors of that person’s will could apply to the offshore country where the company was formed and get the distribution of the shares of that company to the rightful heir.

However, there is a drawback to forming an offshore company in order to buy a property, which is that it makes it far more difficult to obtain financing from a bank or home financing company.

“Banks are very reluctant to lend money to offshore companies,” says Alexis Waller, a property lawyer with the law firm Clyde & Co. “So people are often facing a tough choice. If they want funding or financing they are better off buying the property as an individual. But if they want to ensure that the property is kept in their family if they die then they’d be better off registering it in an offshore company name.”

Even if money were no object, the choice of homes on offer to expats in Dubai can put them off investing in property. The fact is that no matter how new and luxurious these homes are they are restricted to around 23 designated areas or master developments.

Unlike GCC nationals, expats cannot pick and choose where they buy freehold property in Dubai. It would be impossible at present for a non-GCC national to buy a freehold property in parts of Dubai where there are no designated areas or master developments at present, such as Satwa.

Rautenbach has chosen to continue renting a property because none of the master development locations currently on offer suit her needs. “I live in Satwa because I work on Beach Road. I’m not going to live in Arabian Ranches where it would take me hours to get to work. So I choose to rent — and I think there will always be a market here for the renter because of that.”

Similarly, Corley says he wouldn’t consider moving out of his rented villa in Jumeirah so he could invest in property.

“I don’t want to live in a single development that’s being offered in Dubai. I’m very happy in my house in Jumeirah One. It’s private, it’s un-overlooked, it has got its own swimming pool and I don’t care how much it costs me to live here.”

Buyers investing in property in a master development, such as the Arabian Ranches, must consider the additional cost of service charges and the fact that they will be subject to the developer’s own regulations when it comes to making alterations to their home. When it comes to making any changes to their homes, owners are subject to the restrictions of the master developer who in most cases will be keen to maintain consistency in the appearance of the properties.

This of course also has the advantage that the area in which buyers invest will maintain a consistent appearance designed to be attractive to future buyers.

“With a villa there would be restrictions within the community declaration which would say what you can and you can’t do in respect of the community because they want to preserve the integrity and the feel of the place,” says property lawyer James Hemmaway who works for the law firm, Denton Wilde Sapte.

“So you would have to get the consent of the master developer as well as the Municipality in respect of planning decisions.”

Homeowners are usually expected to pay annual service fees for the maintenance of the common areas within their building or development, such as the swimming pool or grounds — something renters like Corley don’t have to consider. “Nobody’s charging me at the moment for digging up the streets to put in new pipes or street lamps,” he says.

Waller explains the charges: “There are two kinds of service charges. If you own a villa you’ll generally pay a service charge to the larger community. So let’s say you are in a villa in the Springs — you have often got use of a swimming pool or a tennis court and also the roads within the Springs. They are all maintained to a standard and people contribute to that. If you’re in a building you pay what we call a two-tier service charge in that you pay one form of charge towards the upkeep of the building, so that’s the structural part, the corridors, the lifts, the lobby. And you pay a second part towards the larger community and it’s a fee that’s imposed on the building because it gets the benefits of the roads around it.”

She says developers will often give buyers a verbal indication of what the service charges on a property will be but that does not necessarily form part of a contract.

At present says Waller there is no cap on service charges but she expects this to change as competition between the developers increases.

“What we might see as developers try to make their developments more marketable is that they will tempt buyers in by placing a cap on the service charge or by only increasing it by 1 or 2% each year.”

Such a cap would prevent residents from being hit with far higher than expected service charges, which Hemmaway says is a risk at present.

“Developers do give estimates of what the service charge is going to be but generally when the property is completed and things are running along, it’s going to be a lot more than that. A lot of the developments are luxury, high-end, developments with facilities like swimming pools and tennis courts.

Purchasers are not going to get that for free and the more luxurious the facilities are, the higher the service charge will be,” he says. Surprises such as unexpectedly high service charges are just one of the risks buyers face in a young market where so much is untested. An even greater risk comes with buying off plan property, as so many purchasers do. When Trench bought her Palm Jumeirah property in 2002 she was buying a plot of land on the promise that one day a villa would be constructed on it. The person who bought it from her eight months later did the same and the value of the property has now gone up to over US$1,361,247 (AED5m). 

But despite these fantastic returns on investment not everybody would feel comfortable buying property off plan and the process can be risky as Hemmaway explains. “One risk at the moment is that if you are buying property off plan then the purchase price which you pay is paid directly to the developer in installments which are not linked to milestones in the construction. You pay that money directly to the developer and it’s linked to specific dates. So there’s no real incentive to complete the building on time and there is that risk that if the developer goes insolvent you are left with nothing except a contractual claim against the contractor,” he warns.

The situation is due to change however, and the Dubai government is working on Escrow laws which would give buyers the ability to pay the money for the property into an Escrow account — a bank account managed by a third party rather than directly to the developer.

“They (the third party) will oversee the payment out of those funds to the developer. And they will only pay it to the developer once the building is at a certain stage, so you have some protection,” Hemmaway explains. 

These and other legal ambiguities point to the fact that it is vitally important for buyers to take legal advice when buying a home in Dubai. Trench says she is shocked by the number of buyers who only realise once their purchase has been completed that they should have sought legal advice.

“There have been horror stories. One is late completion, extremely late completion of over a year, so clients have to continue renting extremely expensive properties and they are incurring damages and huge expenses. People say it’s not necessary to get legal advice when you buy out here, which it strictly isn’t. But it’s certainly advisable.”

Trench’s own experience of buying into the Dubai property market has been a happy one. She has already made a significant return on investment and has been satisfied at all stages with the way the whole process was carried out. 

Those friends who advised Trench not to buy in 2002 are now eating their words on hearing how successful her investment has been. “The other night I went out for dinner with one of those friends, who asked me how Arabian Ranches was going,” she says. “I told him how much the value had gone up and he just sighed and said ‘why didn’t I buy at the time like you told me to”.

But regardless of how profitable buying property in Dubai can be — not everybody is suited to the properties on offer — or the idea of making such a big financial commitment in a place they don’t call home. Anyone considering whether to buy must think about more than just finances when making their choice. It’s also about how long they want to live in Dubai, which area they want to live in and whether life in a master development like The Springs suits their needs and their tastes. 

As Stephen Corley puts it, “It’s a very emotive subject, house purchasing. Life is about slightly more than just adding up the sums at the end of the day and looking at how much money you are making.”

But at the rate at which shrewd investors like Trench are seeing the value of their properties increase, adding up the sums will be more than enough to persuade many to buy.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

YounGun said:


> Hi all Jumeirah Lake Towers owners,
> 
> I must say this forum is awsome. After reading through this forum, I am thinking about purchasing a studio or 1 bedroom unit in the Jumeirah Lake Towers development, so I am going to through some questions to all you Dubai Property experts.
> 
> 1. Which building in the Jumeirah Lake Towers would provide the best entry level ROI and rental return for the short term investment?
> 
> 2. Which reputable agents are majority of Dubai investors are going through?
> 
> 3. Which reputable lawyers are majority of Dubai investors are going through?
> 
> 4. What is the current interest rates in Dubai? What is the process of aquiring a loan?
> 
> Thanks Heaps!
> 
> Cheers!


A quick comment for now - I would recommend you buy in a JLT tower that is close to the metro station and marina mall and has a good floor plan. Such an apartment will always be in demand for long term rentals.


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> As you know Marina Promenade has 6 towers. The price would be different from unit area, location, view, floor, etc. But to give you a an idea:
> 
> -The launch price for Paloma 1 BR was starting from AED 780,000
> -The launch price for Aurora 1 BR was starting from AED 815,888
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks for the info. I have been offered 1 BR in Shemara for AED 968,888 on the 17th floor. At 1073 sq ft, the price comes to AED 903/sq ft.
> 
> When did Emaar launch this project? What do you think the launch price was for the above apartment? If we know that, we can caluclate what premium Emaar is charging.
> 
> Do you think purchasing from Emaar is better (in terms of cost of the apt) or from a property dealer like better homes, etc.


----------



## Krazy

^^ the price you're being offered for the 1 bedroom in shermara is good but it's probably got no views whatsoever (facing JBR)

Emaar launched Marina Promenade in March 2006. The launch price was probably the same and hasn't been changed by emaar. From what I remember, the average going prices for 1 bedrooms in MP has always been in the Dhs 900-930/sq ft range. 

There is no better option between the two. The only positive that comes out of buying directly from Emaar or any other developer is that you don't pay premium and start off fresh instead of carrying on from someone else's payment plan. The advantage of buying resale is you have a much wider choice, if that's more important than having a set budget. So it all depends on your personal preference. Look around the market for a while, don't rush things.


----------



## Krazy

Just an FYI, Shermara in particular was launched in July 2006.


----------



## IISinbadII

There is always this problem of view with 1 BR apts. Usually they have 1 BRs on the side or the back thus view is compromised. Personally I feel that atleast a partial or side view of Marina is a must if you are buying in Marina.

It is always better to buy directly from a developer esp if it is someone like Emaar. You get peace of mind, things are handled in a professional way, you dont have to pay broker commision and no transfer fee. Thats a saving of about 3%. 

But sometimes developers dont have what you want, are already sold out or have prices higher than the secondary market. In that case you you have to buy from a broker and pay 3% extra. 

Take your time to research. See if you can increase your budget to buy something with a view. You should also visit other Emaar offices so that you have more options in other developments. 

Having said all that Marina Prominade is a quality development. Having 6 building complex has added benefits and a sence of something like a 4 star hotel. Just go through some of the amenities they are offering plus you get the appliances (oven, frig, dishwasher, washer/dryer).


----------



## googly

The apartment is on the side so it has a partial view of the marina. It does not face JBR. 

If the price is the same now as it was at launch, then there is no premium charged by Emaar. This gets me back to my original question: Is it worthwhile to purchase in Marina where either there has been no appreciation in property value since launch or Emaar was unable to sell its properties there as quickly as it does at other sites? I wonder if the case is similar with other builders in Marina. 

BTW, a friend of mine bought a 1 BR apt in Marina Sails (9th floor, side view) last month for AED 916K (AED972/sqft) and was able to rent it out immediately for AED80K/year. Thats a return of 8.7%. However, a year from now when the Promenade will be ready (and so will so many other buildings in the Marina) I wonder if one will be able to get that kind of return.


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Dont expect high appriciation or rental returns as has been the case in the past. Over a short span a lot of units are coming in the market and this will most definately cause a correction. However if you are in for a long run you are likely to do fine. Make sure you buy quality at a good location.


----------



## Krazy

still the fact that these units are in the ugliest tower alive in Dubai Marina HAVE TO cause some kinda decline in the prices... and from what I've heard the apartments here are built to poor quality.. something's not right.


----------



## arfie

I'd be amazed if anyone is interested at all in buying a resale in Manchester Tower. Its awful!


----------



## Morrismarina

The Jewels seem very good value per sq foot, and completion not that far away now. Wasn't too keen at first, but looking a really nice development good now. Is there anything still available to purchase here, or have all the units gone now ??


----------



## Krazy

^^ I think Cayan has a few units left but with no views.


----------



## googly

Krazy said:


> I dont know about the interiors and facilities but I can definitely assure you about the surround towers....
> 
> Also I dont think JBR should be looked at as a bad neighbor to have...I doubt PI has something similar in store.


Thanks Krazy for the pic and the clarification. You are right that some Towers will come up between PI and the Hotel. Even if they didnt, I dont see how that would make PI more expensive than MP. I think Emaar is trying to justify the higher prices in PI by such sales pitches. Also, if PI was launched before MP, why is it being constructed after it? 

Regarding JBR, my only concern is that they are so many and so tall that they have a major influence over the neighbourhood. Sort of like a "bully" in the area.  Not to mention the traffic problems they will cause to the residents of MP.


----------



## googly

Can anyone tell me where the metro station is in the Marina? A picture would be great. Thanks.

*****************************************************

By a staff reporter (KHALEEJ TIMES)

15 March 2007 

DUBAI — Contrary to what officials concerned had to say, real estate agents opined that once the Metro and its stations are operational in 2009, prices of surrounding land and property will witness a dramatic increase.


Hassanain Jaffer, Manager of IRMA Properties, said that land prices could increase by 14-15 per cent.

Talking about property located in the area, Mohammed Amir from Al Maq Real Estate said that like land, prices of property, too was expected to increase drastically.

“It is natural that people will choose to live in areas closer to Metro Lines and stations, so when the demand goes up, the prices, too, will increase,” he explained. 

“In my opinion, this will not only happen in the areas around the Metro, but everywhere in Dubai because many other major developmental projects are coming up such as the Dubai Airport in Jebel Ali,” said Amir.


----------



## Imre

googly said:


> Can anyone tell me where the metro station is in the Marina? A picture would be great. Thanks.
> 
> *****************************************************
> 
> By a staff reporter (KHALEEJ TIMES)
> 
> 15 March 2007
> 
> DUBAI — Contrary to what officials concerned had to say, real estate agents opined that once the Metro and its stations are operational in 2009, prices of surrounding land and property will witness a dramatic increase.
> 
> 
> Hassanain Jaffer, Manager of IRMA Properties, said that land prices could increase by 14-15 per cent.
> 
> Talking about property located in the area, Mohammed Amir from Al Maq Real Estate said that like land, prices of property, too was expected to increase drastically.
> 
> “It is natural that people will choose to live in areas closer to Metro Lines and stations, so when the demand goes up, the prices, too, will increase,” he explained.
> 
> “In my opinion, this will not only happen in the areas around the Metro, but everywhere in Dubai because many other major developmental projects are coming up such as the Dubai Airport in Jebel Ali,” said Amir.



2 metro stations at Jumeirah Lakes Towers site.
1. Marina Metro Station , front of Green Lakes Towers (S plot)
2. JLT Metro Station , front of Indigo Tower ( near Almas Tower)


----------



## Imre

Krazy said:


> Can someone explain why the going price for many Manchester Tower units right now is close to 1400AED/sq ft? :weird:


no explain , just somebody crazy

Gulfnews has every day some ridiculous prices..

I saw today first rent of JBR from April 

1 bed 90.000
2 bed 140.000-220.000 
3 bed 160.000-200.000


----------



## kano

^^^ well i don't mind giving my special apartment for 150...but 220 is not even achievable for my tower at jbr.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

90,000 is about 30% rental return on original prices of a 1 bed !


----------



## Naz UK

Are you saying you could have bought a 1-bed for 300,000Dhs in 2003???


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yes I think prices were less than £50,000 for a 1 bed? or did I get that wrong?


----------



## Imre

mid 2003 prices: ( i dont know these are original or not , maybe original prices were less )

Studio: 270.000 - 299.000
1 B/r: 385.000-449.000
2 B/r: 550.000-599.000
3 B/r: 689.000-
4 B/r: 949.000-


----------



## Krazy

^^ very believable. In 2002 you could buy a 3 bedroom villa in Springs for 400K. Today they are going for close to 2 million.


----------



## Imre

yes , my friend bought a villa at Emirates Hills 600k in 2002-2003 and sold for 3 million


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Why Dubai condos are not like Miami and will avoid a real crisis*

_The overbuilding of Miami condominium buildings is worrying realtors. They point to 10,000 completions this year and 10,000 next year, while only 11,000 units were absorbed by the market in the previous decade. Importantly the developers are highly leveraged and so are the off plan buyers of many of these units._

At a superficial level there is a comparison with Dubai. One private building materials group has its own estimate that suggests 50,000 units will be completed this year and 50,000 next year, with around half of these units bought by wealthy people as second homes, usually without finance. 

The annual take-up of apartments in Dubai is a matter for some debate among analysts. But estimates range from 10-30,000 apartments. Thus the most optimistic analysts see this bulge in completions being very quickly absorbed, and the more pessimistic see a couple of years of oversupply. 

Pessimists are more concerned about the leveraging of off plan units, although the figures from Dubai mortgage providers suggest that no more than 15,000 off plan apartments have been bought using finance, and that means that 85 per cent are bought with cash. 

Defaults possible

In theory if apartments fell sharply in value then those borrowers who had not actually paid down much more than the deposit, which can be as low as four per cent, could be tempted to hand the keys back to their lender and default. 

But the potential for such bad loans is clearly on a far smaller scale than in the US where borrowing is almost universal for real estate while in Dubai such leverage is in its infancy and at low levels. Repossessions could therefore depress the Dubai market for a short while but would not leave it seriously undermined. 

Indeed, the amount of equity investment in Dubai real estate is one reason to believe it will ride-out the predicted correction period next year in much better shape than the more advanced markets like Miami. For Miami has less apartments under construction but considerably more real estate leverage wrapped up in this process. 

1999 precedent

In the 1999 real estate downturn in Dubai, which followed a local stock market crash and the Asian Financial Crisis, many observers were amazed at the resilience of the sector which at the time again looked to be overbuilding. 

What happened was that property owners were not greatly leveraged and just sat out the downturn, even leaving buildings empty rather than cut their rentals. 

It could be different this time. But as in 1999 the biggest player in the Dubai market is the Dubai Government, so expect a case of deja vu all over again. 

Also it should be noted that the capacity of a dynamic emerging economy like Dubai to absorb spare residential capacity is a lot stronger than a mature economy like Florida which may have similar levels of sunshine and tourism but that is where the comparison ends. 

Sure a few fringe developers may decide to axe over ambitious projects, and some might collapse. And that will be the correction, not a massive collapse of real estate prices or a major crisis. Without the leverage it just will not happen, and bargain hunters might have to wait for another future crisis when real estate borrowing forces prices too high to be sustainable.


----------



## Krazy

* Master developers eye Abu Dhabi property exhibition*

Abu Dhabi: As many as 47 exhibitors, including local and regional developers, will participate in Ireis 2007, the third edition of Abu Dhabi's property show, which will be held from March 21 to 24 under the patronage of Dr Shaikh Sultan Bin Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, Member of the Abu Dhabi Executive Council.

"There won't be any property bubble in Abu Dhabi now or in the future... developers expect more demand on their developments," said Antoine Georges, director of Dome Exhibitions, organisers of the show.

"Since mid-2004, projects with a total value of Dh380 billion have been announced in Abu Dhabi," he added.

Georges said these projects include The Quay, Yas Island, Saadiyat Island, Al Raha Beach, Danet Abu Dhabi, Najmat Abu Dhabi, Shams Abu Dhabi and Capital Centre.

"The show has doubled in size since last year's edition and will occupy 6,500 square metres and two exhibit halls at the Abu Dhabi National Exhibition Centre," he said.

Georges added that such an event will be a platform for investors and real estate providers to interact and conclude deals directly, and is focused on the final consumer rather than members of the trade community.

"The steady repatriation of Abu Dhabi into the region and increasing econ-omic prosperity has coincided with a liberalisation of property laws... a range of real estate projects have been presented to the market and investors have reaped good returns," said Georges.

"Dubai has had a head-start in attracting property investments for a few years, and Abu Dhabi's initiatives and projects in the sector have been making waves recently."

According to the Abu Dhabi Chamber of Commerce and Industry statistics, Abu Dhabi will see Dh500 billion being pumped into real estate investments, and the emirate's construction and real estate investments are expected to contribute Dh40 billion to the emirate's GDP in 2007.

Ireis 2007's exhibitors includes: Sorouh Real Estate, Al Qudra, Tamouh Investments, Falcon City of Wonders and Manazil Real Estate, and property development companies such as Profile Group Properties and Hydra Properties.


----------



## Naz UK

^^ How can someone so arrogantly say "there won't be a property bubble... now or in the future"??? Stupid idiot.


----------



## Plet

Very few here on these pages mention the monthly maintenance charges.

They start low because a new building does not need much maintenance. But what happens after 5 years?

And what maintenance charges have they promised you the first year?


----------



## Plet

Can I ask you guys, if you get a solicitor to go through the contract on your apartment? 
Is it worth paying the money for a solicitors fee?


----------



## glover

ask the seller to write a postdated check in the same amount. writing a check in situations like this is common in dubai. 

my realtor did that when I bought my place in the marina. I had to pay the outstanding balance on the mortgage, so the owner wrote a postdated check to the realtor as a guarantee.

i did the same when i sold my property in ras al-khaimah. wrote a check to the realtor as a guarantee.


----------



## Morrismarina

glover said:


> ask the seller to write a postdated check in the same amount. writing a check in situations like this is common in dubai.
> 
> my realtor did that when I bought my place in the marina. I had to pay the outstanding balance on the mortgage, so the owner wrote a postdated check to the realtor as a guarantee.
> 
> i did the same when i sold my property in ras al-khaimah. wrote a check to the realtor as a guarantee.


Yes but what if the post dated cheque is not honoured ??


----------



## Krazy

post dated checks are illegal arent they?


----------



## Naz UK

I thought bouncing cheques (thats checks for Krazy!) was illegal, not post-dating them.???


----------



## Krazy

^^ post-dating *checks* is illegal here while bounced *checks* aren't.. i thought it wud be the same everywhere


----------



## Morrismarina

The writing of a post dated cheque is fine .......but it's considered illegal if the cheque is dishonoured. (Actually this also applies in the UK). But this is no help at all, if the cheque bounces you're still in the same position as not having taken the cheque, you're going to have to go to Court. And the seller is still refusing to transfer the property and has run away with the money. What can you do ?? The post dated cheque has been a waste of time ??
To make matters worse what if the seller has absconded from Dubai and is living overseas so you can't even get him into a Dubai Court !!
Can't see the post dated cheque is any comfort at all here.


----------



## IISinbadII

glover said:


> ask the seller to write a postdated check in the same amount. writing a check in situations like this is common in dubai.
> 
> my realtor did that when I bought my place in the marina. I had to pay the outstanding balance on the mortgage, so the owner wrote a postdated check to the realtor as a guarantee.
> 
> i did the same when i sold my property in ras al-khaimah. wrote a check to the realtor as a guarantee.


Thanks for your advice.  

I feel it is a good way to protect yourself since you can recover your money and my understanding is that a bounced check is a crimnal offence in Dubai. 

Is the post dated check mentioned in the MOU and do you think one should get a lawyer to witness the MOU in these kind of situations (i.e. when you are paying off sellers mortgage)?


----------



## glover

Morrismarina said:


> Can't see the post dated cheque is any comfort at all here.


bouncing a check n Dubai is a felony punishable by imprisonment. once you file a complaint at the local police station, an arrest warrant will be issued against the seller. i bought my place from a local, so i didn't have to worry much about him fleeing the country. but when you buy through a Realtor, they will act in a sense as a guarantor and lawyer! So go with a reputable Realtor, they know what to do!

if you are looking for a 100% risk free in transactions like this, then Dubai is not for you!

one of these days we will have a settlement day like in the States when monies and properties are exchanged in the same day in a lawyers office (who charges you plenty in fees by the way in return for the peace of mind).


----------



## boni1981

no one reply to my question?

BAY CENTRAL 

so the price are rise from west tower to central tower for about how many% ?

if we imagine that now is 2010 how can i get for one year apartment? my apartment is n.2301 one bedroom direct marina facing.


----------



## glover

IISinbadII said:


> Is the post dated check mentioned in the MOU and do you think one should get a lawyer to witness the MOU in these kind of situations (i.e. when you are paying off sellers mortgage)?


the post dated check was not mentioned in the sales agreement, only my payment to the bank to cover the mortgage in advance of completing the sale. the seller's check was handed to the Realtor in an informal way. in the end, it doesn't really matter, because under any circumstances, bouncing a check is still a felony!


----------



## Morrismarina

glover said:


> the post dated check was not mentioned in the sales agreement, only my payment to the bank to cover the mortgage in advance of completing the sale. the seller's check was handed to the Realtor in an informal way. in the end, it doesn't really matter, because under any circumstances, bouncing a check is still a felony!



Yes it's a felony.....and you can go to Court about it and you'll win the judgement ........but there's no guarantee you'll get your money. That's why the cheque bounced in the first place, cause there's no funds......they've gone, done a runner !!! So the guy's in prison but you ain't got your money. There's no way I'd pay somebody's mortgage off in return for them giving me a cheque. Crazy.


----------



## Morrismarina

boni1981 said:


> no one reply to my question?
> 
> BAY CENTRAL
> 
> so the price are rise from west tower to central tower for about how many% ?
> 
> if we imagine that now is 2010 how can i get for one year apartment? my apartment is n.2301 one bedroom direct marina facing.


Prices have gone up by about 5% based on square footage. And you're likely to get about AED100k for a one bed marina facing apartment if letting today......but what you'll get in rent in 2010 is anybody's guess.


----------



## glover

Morrismarina said:


> Yes it's a felony.....and you can go to Court about it and you'll win the judgement ........but there's no guarantee you'll get your money. That's why the cheque bounced in the first place, cause there's no funds......they've gone, done a runner !!! So the guy's in prison but you ain't got your money. There's no way I'd pay somebody's mortgage off in return for them giving me a cheque. Crazy.


having a check in hand is not the same as having nothing as you have implied. the seller knows that he/she will be a felon if the check bounces. unless the seller is scheming from the beginning to rip you off and flee the country leaving his property behind him, then i would say the check is definitely a very good guarantee!


----------



## glover

Morrismarina said:


> So the guy's in prison but you ain't got your money. There's no way I'd pay somebody's mortgage off in return for them giving me a cheque. Crazy.


with that kind of attitude, you will never be able to buy a mortgaged property in the second hand market in Dubai. Not only did i pay off the mortgage of the property i bought before completing the deal, i wasn't in Dubai when it happened. I was in Kuwait at the time and asked my Realtor to pick up the manager's check from my bank and hand it over to tamweel, which he gladly did. that was last July, my property is now worth about 30% more!


----------



## Krazy

^^ which property is that?


----------



## glover

^^ al-sahab. i paid 1.35m for my 2-bed, they are going for 1.7-1.8m now. it's not marina facing, but i love my view, which includes a panaromic view of 6 swimming pools and partial sea and marina views.


----------



## Plet

ps500 where can I find the floor-plans for BC Central Tower?

Imre, thanks for the maintenance prices. Interesting.
And for the recommendations of of MP and JBR. Am I the only one who is not keen on JBR? The balconies are terrible!


----------



## Plet

Sorry PS500 I just found the floor-plans  

I think if I did not buy in Al Dua'a, I would probably buy in Marina Scape. I love these 2 towers and the balconies.:nuts:


----------



## Sheltie

The Bay Central floor plans are on the Bay Central thread in Dubai Marina, page 23. I think they are small and perhaps overpriced.


----------



## HarryKane

Imre said:


> Home insurance I paid 400 dhs/year (inside value 100k AED , covered fire , water ,earthquake demages etc..., I need only this because the developer has own insurance of the whole building)


Thanks for the info. 
So, the building is insured by the developer, but it doesn't cover fire, water, earthquake damages etc.?
Anyone know what the situation is for Emaar properties?


----------



## glover

Sameerl

The Sheik would not allow it! He will intervene. Remember, this is his town! LOL

You know what, we could have a case of a self-fulfilling prophecy!

Anyways, i am not worried a bit long term! Thanks.


----------



## worried1

*Dubai Maritime City*

Anybody has any inside info on this project. The web site does not name projects, builders, time of competion etc etc.:cheers:


----------



## IISinbadII

OK, lets cut to the chase. Is it time to buy, hold or sell?

:nuts:


----------



## sameerl

Love Dubai: I agree. What happened was that the property was revalued down by 8%, and the customer had to top up (he was approved 70% of the property value; when the value declined, he had to pay the difference). He could not come up with the money during teh specified time frame (30 days), and therefore his property was seized. Now this whole episode reeks of inexperience, and thats why there is a possibility that a small correction could magnify due to the inexperience of bankers. 

Something else that is happening is the leverage of capital gains. In other words, as property is being revalued higher, many customers have been taking out higher loans, as banks are willing to lend on the property value. (This is normal in most developed countries), but is again a sign of increasing leverage. 

The point is high and increasing supply which could force property prices downwards, would be magnified in the eventof high leverage. 

Long term (5+ years) i agree with Glover and others that there should not be a problem. In fact even Moodys stated that the risk of a "short term" downward price correction is high.


----------



## glover

sameerl said:


> Something else that is happening is the leverage of capital gains. In other words, as property is being revalued higher, many customers have been taking out higher loans, as banks are willing to lend on the property value. (This is normal in most developed countries), but is again a sign of increasing leverage.
> 
> The point is high and increasing supply which could force property prices downwards, would be magnified in the eventof high leverage.


Point well taking, though from what I understand, mortgage lenders usually undervalue the price of the property by about 10-15% in cases of second mortgages (this is when home owners try to tap into their home equity). thus the correction risk is already built into these second mortgages, or so it seems!


----------



## sameerl

Perhaps youre right... I have seen events that prove both sides, which i guess is another sign of a market that is still evolving. 

We have discussed at length the issue of leverage that is inherent in the economy. However, the prime catalyst still remains the issue of supply. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on this issue

Thanks


----------



## Naz UK

It's time to buy a bit. Then hold for a few moments. Then sell later. It's also time for all to write 3000 word essay on our opinions on..will it..won't it.


----------



## DJRage

*Office Space in Dubai*

An interesting article from Bloomberg - very promising for you people just interested in investment in this city.

(Full link: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=awPrleqYYc4w&refer=home )

Dubai Runs Out of Office Space as Economic Boom Draws Companies 

By Sean Cronin

April 6 (Bloomberg) -- Dubai, the Middle East's fastest- growing city, is running out of office space, according to the commercial property broker CB Richard Ellis Group Inc. 

Nicholas Maclean, managing director of the firm's business in the Mideast, said the lack of space is making it more difficult for foreign companies to profit from the sheikdom's economic boom. Some U.S. companies have agreed to occupy premises that won't be built for two years, he said. 

``There's a desperate shortage,'' Maclean said in an interview. In some cases, companies are ``running their operations from other locations until the space eases up.'' 

The United Arab Emirates economy, the Arab world's second- biggest, grew 8.9 percent in 2006 as the country earned an average of $65 per barrel of oil, about 22 percent higher than the previous year. 

David Lesar, Halliburton Co.'s chief executive officer, plans to move to Dubai to oversee the company's expansion in the Middle East and Asia. The world's second-largest oilfield-services provider is ``looking at a number of potential places to put an office,'' spokeswoman Cathy Mann said in an e-mailed statement. ``We have not yet settled on which one it will be.'' 

Merrill Lynch & Co., the world's biggest brokerage, and Lancashire Holdings Ltd., a Bermuda-based insurer, are also looking for office space in Dubai. Baker Hughes Inc., the third-largest oil contractor, plans to create as much as 700,000 square feet of space at the Jebel Ali Free Zone, a 25-acre site owned by the government where foreign companies benefit from government incentives and tax breaks. 

Rents Jump 

``There is no available space for several large-scale international office requirements we have from companies wishing to enter the Dubai market,'' said Maclean. 

Commercial rent in Dubai has jumped the past two years as landlords capitalized on the lack of space. Prime office space can cost more than 400 dirhams ($109) a square foot to rent, up from 165 dirhams in May 2005, according to CB Richard Ellis. 

Some office buildings are being sold to investors by the floor, said Abdullah Hageali, chief executive officer of property developer Tameer Holding. ``When it comes to leasing space, occupiers often have to deal with multiple owners,'' said Hageali, whose company is building the 107-story Princess Tower in Dubai. 

Companies seeking new office space in Dubai are also paying for the fit-out costs of the premises that are being let by developers on a ``shell and core'' basis. 

``If it's a new building, you can add another 300 to 500 dirhams per square foot in fit-out costs,'' said Ian Albert, director of the real estate broker Colliers International. 

``The annualized cost of occupation over a three-year lease could be 363 dirhams per square foot,'' he said. ``Three years ago it was 160 dirhams per square foot.''


----------



## Morrismarina

*One Step Ahead*

Dubai Select were one of the first developers in Dubai to provide an escrow account for their developments. 

Dubai Select proactively chose to provide this service to ensure the security of client’s money, as opposed to sitting back and waiting for this type of protection to be imposed by the authorities in Dubai.

It is an advantage to hold an escrow account as it protects your funds and ensures safety of purchase. With an escrow account you have the assurance, security and safety that your monies are protected by an impartial third party. New legislation will ensure escrow accounts become standard in Dubai.

Eagerly-anticipated legislation, concerning escrow accounts and a condominium law have passed the final draft stage and are awaiting official approval from the emirate’s rulers.

It follows a lengthy period of consultation between the land department and property developers in Dubai.

“The draft laws have been finalised and have been submitted for government feedback and approval,” said Mohammad Sultan Thani, director of development and marketing administration at Dubai Land Department.

Legal experts say the Trust (Escrow) Accounts will protect buyers’ stage payments in independently-held accounts.

According to information obtained by Gulf News, escrow accounts in Dubai will be managed by a number of domestic and international financial institutions, all of which will be supervised and monitored by the land department.

Meanwhile, the release of the Condominium Law will also pave the way for a by-law to be signed on the rights and responsibilities of owners associations.

Source; Gulf News


----------



## Hanna

Morrismarina said:


> *One Step Ahead*
> 
> Dubai Select were one of the first developers in Dubai to provide an escrow account for their developments.
> 
> Dubai Select proactively chose to provide this service to ensure the security of client’s money, as opposed to sitting back and waiting for this type of protection to be imposed by the authorities in Dubai.
> 
> It is an advantage to hold an escrow account as it protects your funds and ensures safety of purchase. With an escrow account you have the assurance, security and safety that your monies are protected by an impartial third party. New legislation will ensure escrow accounts become standard in Dubai.
> 
> Eagerly-anticipated legislation, concerning escrow accounts and a condominium law have passed the final draft stage and are awaiting official approval from the emirate’s rulers.
> 
> It follows a lengthy period of consultation between the land department and property developers in Dubai.
> 
> “The draft laws have been finalised and have been submitted for government feedback and approval,” said Mohammad Sultan Thani, director of development and marketing administration at Dubai Land Department.
> 
> Legal experts say the Trust (Escrow) Accounts will protect buyers’ stage payments in independently-held accounts.
> 
> According to information obtained by Gulf News, escrow accounts in Dubai will be managed by a number of domestic and international financial institutions, all of which will be supervised and monitored by the land department.
> 
> Meanwhile, the release of the Condominium Law will also pave the way for a by-law to be signed on the rights and responsibilities of owners associations.
> 
> Source; Gulf News


Hi 


Hi

I was wondering with this new Condo law and escrow accounts coming out
in the very near future will Damac have to sign up.I read yesterday that all
new builds that has not been started would have to adhere to the new law
Damac would have to put all the money into one of these accounts and draw
down as per agreement with whoever is holding our money,I bet a lot of people would sleep easier if they were forced to do this.:cheers:


----------



## googly

Having bought in Marina, I am now thinking of purchasing in International City. The rental returns are higher there (10%) but it seems there are problems with delays, smell and transfer issues. Can anyone advise with regards to investing in International City? Thanks.


----------



## IISinbadII

googly said:


> Having bought in Marina, I am now thinking of purchasing in International City. The rental returns are higher there (10%) but it seems there are problems with delays, smell and transfer issues. Can anyone advise with regards to investing in International City? Thanks.


Renatal returns are important but so is capital appriciation, quality and location. You already have Marina. Why not invest in Downtown something like Burj Dubai or Business Bay.


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> Renatal returns are important but so is capital appriciation, quality and location. You already have Marina. Why not invest in Downtown something like Burj Dubai or Business Bay.


Burj Dubai area is really expensive. I cannot find anything reasonable. I was offered an office space in Business Bay in Churchil Executive Towers but I am not sure whether its a good deal. Being not present in Dubai has its disadvantages. :bash: 

The advantages of International City is that I can purchase a studio for less than 350K and have a tenant in it immediately. However, I thought i should get feedback from others about the development. BTW, A friend of mine bought a studio in Spain last year for 250K so the capital appreciation is also good, not to mention the 10-12% rental return.


----------



## Naz UK

Capital appreciation is not that good. You can still pick up studios for 275k if you look hard enough.


----------



## googly

Naz UK said:


> Capital appreciation is not that good. You can still pick up studios for 275k if you look hard enough.


Where can you get a studio for 275K? I cant find any for less than 310K and those too in Persia. In Spain, Italy, France, or England, prices are 330K+. 

My friend was offered 340K for his studio in Spain but he didnt sell. At 340K, he has a capital appreciation of 35% in a year. Thats very good. 

Can anyone tell me which building is a good buy in Business Bay? Has anyone heard of Churchil Executive? Who is the builder?


----------



## Morrismarina

Regarding this "holiday let" restriction imposed on JBR apartments. I've checked my TT & BC contracts and they're the same as what I believe is written into the JBR contract, simply saying the property is for "private residential use" . (so open to interpretation).
Anybody know if owners of any of the other completed Marina properties (eg. Marina Diamond & Marina Heights) have come across any problems with holiday lets so far ??
Is this just a JBR thing or is there a danger that could it apply to the whole of the Marina ??


----------



## Dubai_Steve

googly, my experience is that if you can buy low priced property which has a high rental yield (above 10 or 12%) then capital appreciation will be high regardless of location.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

morris, "private residential use" is normal for all apartments including those for holiday lets. It simply means the tenant is not allowed to use it for business purposes, eg. shop/offices. I think it was the 2nd clause which was the problem in the JBR contracts.


----------



## glover

Morrismarina said:


> Anybody know if owners of any of the other completed Marina properties (eg. Marina Diamond & Marina Heights) have come across any problems with holiday lets so far ??
> Is this just a JBR thing or is there a danger that could it apply to the whole of the Marina ??


checked my association rules in al-sahab (emaar building), no restrictions whatsoever. there is a clause also that gives owners the right to change any association rule with a 75% majorty vote.


----------



## romaforever

*Studio with view on Wadi Walk (City of Arabia). Good deal?*

Hello,
I am thinking to buy an off plan studio with view on wadi walk (one of the towers of City of Arabia). The price is about $169k. I will pay 50 % and 50% after it is completed in 7 years. The studio is on 32th floor. 

Questions.

1) Do you think it is a good investment? 

2) What about capital apreciation?

3) What about possible rent in 2008-2009 when the building is complete? Will I cover the monthly payment with the rent? I calculated that the financed 50% over 7 years costs to me (with interests) about $ 1,400/month. 

Do you think it is convenient? Please let me know.


----------



## sameerl

romaforever:

If you want to stay in Dubailand, then Queue Point looks good with lower prices. If you are not restricted, then look at JLT for completion in 2009 at prices of approx AED 900 psf or even less perhaps. (eg Global Lake View/ V3 Tower)

COA looks to be mired in delays and i think that the market may punish them because of this. Anyways, just my thoughts


----------



## IISinbadII

Could someone educate me on Dubai rental rules.

-Who pays the rental commision to the estate agent (the owner or tanent) and how much is it usually?

-Can the tanent refuse to leave even after his contract is over? Is this something one should worry about.

-If you want to rent out your apartment for only one year, what do you have to put in the contract so that there is no problems when you ask the tanent to leave?

Thanks


----------



## glover

maltster said:


> Anybody know where the nearest Post Office to Dubai Marina is located ??


Jebel Ali Free Zone, but you have to go inside the zone. I usually go to the one in Jumeirah, which is about 20 min drive from the Marina if traffic is clear. It really sucks that there is no post office around here, even in Dubai Internet and Media cities.


----------



## Naz UK

maltster said:


> Anybody know where the nearest Post Office to Dubai Marina is located ??


I normally use an Indian on a bicycle. It's far more efficient and a lot quicker than the shambolic state of affairs the Dubai government fondly refer to as a "postal service".


----------



## maltster

*HSBC Bank - Internet City*

Heard there is a HSBC in Internet City. Anybody know if this is an actual branch where you can open accounts etc - it doesnt seem to be listed on their website as such.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ No I think it is just offices.


----------



## smussuw

guys is there any websites where I can check prices in feet of of not built plots across Dubai.

My father told me that our area reached 1200 AED per feet square so I wanted to confirm that.


----------



## mackie1964

Morrismarina said:


> Regarding this "holiday let" restriction imposed on JBR apartments. I've checked my TT & BC contracts and they're the same as what I believe is written into the JBR contract, simply saying the property is for "private residential use" . (so open to interpretation).
> Anybody know if owners of any of the other completed Marina properties (eg. Marina Diamond & Marina Heights) have come across any problems with holiday lets so far ??
> Is this just a JBR thing or is there a danger that could it apply to the whole of the Marina ??


The Torch has a time share/Fraction ownership and DS are offering to manage you property both long term and short term. I have stayed twice in the Marina area paying directly to people from this very forum (Approx £750 a week/1bedded room) and it was a great place both times


----------



## Morrismarina

mackie1964 said:


> The Torch has a time share/Fraction ownership and DS are offering to manage you property both long term and short term. I have stayed twice in the Marina area paying directly to people from this very forum (Approx £750 a week) and it was a great place both times


Good point. I'm probably just being a bit paranoid worrying that this short term let restriction will start to apply elsewhere. It's always a concern when you hear of something like what's happened at JBR. Without any sort of reason or explanation it's difficult to get to the bottom of things. There again it's not easy to explain why JBR purchasers are being "done over" ..........hopefully it won't happen anywhere else.


----------



## hamad_1980

*Al Mazaya's groundbreaking index, to be up and running by mid-May.*

" - Six Property indexes were calculated to manage the general index
- The value of commercial, residential and industrial indexes include plots and space
- The index works after calculating the volume, number and value of the buying and purchases of all properties

After the successful launch of the first real estate index in the region at the beginning of February 2007, Al Mazaya, a leading real estate development in the GCC, expect to begin operation of its groundbreaking Al Mazaya Index by mid-May. The firm has come a long way in the creation of this index, with the collection of all the necessary data of the six Gulf States, currently being compiled in cooperation with the Department of Land and Property in Dubai, the Department of Real Estate Registration and several government departments and private firms specialized in registering real estate transactions.

They also announced the statistical formula which will be used to form the index and chart the progress of prices, which will all be done with the aid of a state-of-the-art computer program that was created specifically for this process. This unique program in addition to determining and evaluating the figures, will also distribute data to the firm's stakeholders as well as the media simultaneously.
The Al Mazaya index is unique and the first of its kind in the region, characterized by the fact that it measures the level of development in real estate prices (taking into account the sales and purchases) across the GCC, while also incorporating and measuring the prices of the shares of real estate companies listed in the stock exchanges. The figures will be used as an indicator to chart the progress of the real estate sector in the Arabian Gulf. Using this as an indicator, the results of the index will be compared with the value of current properties, thus future market trends can be detected. Since the general index is the sum of all the smaller indexes, the system has been designed to garner a near precision picture of the market's health; fully taking into account, residential, commercial and industrial property in all phases of development. The figures are based on three values - namely, the size, quantity and value of acquisitions made in every sector of the GCC's market."

http://www.azhom.com/ArticleView.php?index=1655


----------



## glover

Morrismarina said:


> Good point. I'm probably just being a bit paranoid worrying that this short term let restriction will start to apply elsewhere.


i have to say that the the impression I got about you from other posts is that you are a bit paranoid about investment in Dubai in general. LOL

whether you think “private residential use” allows short term holiday lets or not, in the end, a new law will be passed soon where rules like that will be in the hands of the owners, not the developer!!! so chill out!


----------



## Morrismarina

glover said:


> i have to say that the the impression I got about you from other posts is that you are a bit paranoid about investment in Dubai in general. LOL
> 
> whether you think “private residential use” allows short term holiday lets or not, in the end, a new law will be passed soon where rules like that will be in the hands of the owners, not the developer!!! so chill out!


Thanks Glover......that's good news......I'll try to chill out now :hammer:


----------



## DubaiFive0

IISinbadII said:


> Could someone educate me on Dubai rental rules.
> 
> -Who pays the rental commision to the estate agent (the owner or tanent) and how much is it usually? *
> The tenant pays the rental commission and its normally 5% of the annual rent (you should also get around 5000 AED for the security deposit that you hold on to for the duration of the tenancy).*
> 
> -Can the tanent refuse to leave even after his contract is over? Is this something one should worry about.
> *In theory if they stick to the contract no. One way landlords are getting around the 7% rent cap is kicking tenants out after a year making an excuse that there gonna sell etc. but then renting it out again to someone else for more than the allowed increase, greedy baskets *
> 
> -If you want to rent out your apartment for only one year, what do you have to put in the contract so that there is no problems when you ask the tanent to leave?
> *Looking at my contract (which is for a year), you don't need to add anything, as per my contract you just need to give 60 days notice for vacating or renewal of the tenancy contract*


Finally, if they don't want to leave then you have to call the heavies in.


----------



## Krazy

I was contacted by the resale dept of Emaar advising me to put my Marina Promenade unit up for sale on the resale market immediately since the dubai property market is "expected to crash in the near future" by their analysts.. they said I could sell at about 15% premium right now and save myself.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

That is very strange. Why would Emaar advise you that the market is going to crash. Such a statement would only affect their future sales. Obviously they have a strong demand for your unit and the sales rep wants to make a quick commission. I would have thought Emaar were more professional than that!


----------



## Imre

somebody wanted to buy same cheap apartments


----------



## HarryKane

Krazy said:


> I was contacted by the resale dept of Emaar advising me to put my Marina Promenade unit up for sale on the resale market immediately since the dubai property market is "expected to crash in the near future"


I never knew that Emaar had a "resale dept". Are you sure that wasn't Hampton's that contacted you? In any case, they might truely believe in the coming "crash", based on their decision to sell their rental properties.


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> I was contacted by the resale dept of Emaar advising me to put my Marina Promenade unit up for sale on the resale market immediately since the dubai property market is "expected to crash in the near future" by their analysts.. they said I could sell at about 15% premium right now and save myself.


Here are my comments:

-Emaar does have a resale office that is situated in Emaar business park Building # 1. It was there before Hampton came in the picture. Hampton's office is also in Emaar business park but in another building.

-Emaar has sold out Marina Promenade. Emaar has nothing to offer in Marina that would be ready in 9 months or so. Being one of the best develpments by Emaar that would be ready soon, there may be a demand from buyers who dont want to wait 2 years for other Emaar develpments to complete in Marina. So they may be wanting to sell your unit and earn commision.

-It is common in Dubai for Real Estate agents to contact owners earging them to sell their units for a profit. One agent told me that he got a list of unit owners from developer and is calling them to see if they would sell. So getting calls from agents is normal and infact a good thing. It tells you that there are buyers interested. Atleast now you know that your property is up atleast 15% 

-Right now real estate agents dont know much about Marina Promenade so its not "hot". Its value is likely to increase once it is complete (Jan 08) and people can walk in and see the quality and views. When there are adds of Marina Prominade on every other page in the newspaper classifieds. When there is activity (buying and selling) and it becomes "hot property". 

-Other factors that may effect your property include bar on short term rentals in JBR, complition of intersection 5.5, Marina Mall, other Marina towers and the Metro.

-Having said all the above. There are many reports that a correction is coming due to over supply of apartments. The resale office may be doing this independently espacially if they have said this verbally. It this is an official e-mail generally sent to others it would be something very surprising.

-In any case you should have a stretagy. Are you willing to sell your unit now at 15% premium only to find that you could get more money once its complete? On the other hand are you willing to take losses if there is a correction? Are you willing to accept a more realistic 6% rental premium..... It all depends on your expectations and reason for buying. If you bought the apartment to live in, all this shouyld not mean much to you. If you are a long term investor you know that there are ups and downs in property market so the correction would be over at some point. If you are a short term investor my advise would be to wait atleast till Jan 08 when Promenade completes.


----------



## Morrismarina

Krazy said:


> I was contacted by the resale dept of Emaar advising me to put my Marina Promenade unit up for sale on the resale market immediately since the dubai property market is "expected to crash in the near future" by their analysts.. they said I could sell at about 15% premium right now and save myself.


It would have been interesting to find out why they have this view, I bet they didn't explain how they had come to this conclusion. Were they talking about the Marina or Dubai in general. Also would be interesting to know when their "analysts" expected the market to recover after this supposed crash. Bet they didn't go into that either. I agree it's just a load of BS to scare you into selling, best forgotten about IMO. :nuts:


----------



## googly

Krazy said:


> I was contacted by the resale dept of Emaar advising me to put my Marina Promenade unit up for sale on the resale market immediately since the dubai property market is "expected to crash in the near future" by their analysts.. they said I could sell at about 15% premium right now and save myself.


Since you dont live in Dubai Krazy, how were you contacted by Emaar? By email? I have a unit in Marina Promenade (which i bought directly from Emaar a few months ago) but i have not been contacted regarding this. In fact, I recently sent them an installment for the unit and they didnt mention this. 

I must admit I am shocked to hear that Emaar would advise people to sell their units.


----------



## Krazy

^^ My dad who lives in Abu Dhabi was contacted regarding this. He didnt pay much attention to the call. We are looking to rent it out (preferably short term rental) on completion.


----------



## HarryKane

Morrismarina said:


> It would have been interesting to find out why they have this view, I bet they didn't explain how they had come to this conclusion.


The view that a correction is imminent is not in anyway unique in Dubai at the moment, so it would not be surprising Emaar held the same view.



Morrismarina said:


> I agree it's just a load of BS to scare you into selling, best forgotten about IMO. :nuts:


Again, if Emaar thought that prices were about to appreciate, rather than correct, it would make no sense for them to sell off their rental properties at the current time.


----------



## heatstor

Krazy said:


> I was contacted by the resale dept of Emaar advising me to put my Marina Promenade unit up for sale on the resale market immediately since the dubai property market is "expected to crash in the near future" by their analysts.. they said I could sell at about 15% premium right now and save myself.


I can't believe someone like Emaar would make such an offer, definitely not use the term "expected to crash". There must have been either a misunderstanding in the communication or the caller had other interests besides Emaar's.


----------



## mission

There will not be a crash in Dubai maybe a cooling period but defently not a crash. 

Dubai is a second home city or for the very rich.


----------



## Morrismarina

HarryKane said:


> Again, if Emaar thought that prices were about to appreciate, rather than correct, it would make no sense for them to sell off their rental properties at the current time.


How sure are you that they're selling off their rental stock due to a possible property crash ?? Perhaps it's for other reasons, after all Emaar could easily ride out any downturn for 1 to 2 years until prices recover - I wasn't aware they had cashflow problems and needed to sell. If you're a landlord a property price crash is irrelevant as you're renting the property out not selling it. What's more important is that you're making a profit or at least breaking even each month.


----------



## Morrismarina

It's a bit pointless anybody talking about a crash unless they define what any downturn would be. ie 10% or 30% and for how long it will be until prices recover. So many comments & articles just state a "crash" without giving any further detail around it. I tend to ignore this kind of stuff, unless there's any real information given to back it up.


----------



## mission

I am with you there Morris


----------



## IISinbadII

Morrismarina said:


> It's a bit pointless anybody talking about a crash unless they define what any downturn would be. ie 10% or 30% and for how long it will be until prices recover. So many comments & articles just state a "crash" without giving any further detail around it. I tend to ignore this kind of stuff, unless there's any real information given to back it up.


On the other hand, some people deny any correction and believe that Dubai property prices will keep going up for ever.


----------



## Tractor

The time to sell is when everyone agrees its time to buy!


----------



## mackie1964

*Exchange rates*

Where are these experts that have predicted the great fall of the £ against the AED/$, today is the highest (ever I think) £/AED exchange rate at 7.36, it must be time to buy.


----------



## HarryKane

Morrismarina said:


> How sure are you that they're selling off their rental stock due to a possible property crash ??


I didn't say I was sure. Its a definite possibility, though, especially if you think that the market is correcting.



Morrismarina said:


> I wasn't aware they had cashflow problems and needed to sell.


Selling their property doesn't mean they have cashflow problems. 



Morrismarina said:


> If you're a landlord a property price crash is irrelevant as you're renting the property out not selling it.


As a landlord, a property crash is absolutely relevant. If I thought that the market was about to decline, lets say, by about 30%, why wouldn't I sell now and pick up the same property again later at a 30% discount? Of course, I would.


----------



## HarryKane

Morrismarina said:


> It's a bit pointless anybody talking about a crash unless they define what any downturn would be. ie 10% or 30% and for how long it will be until prices recover. So many comments & articles just state a "crash" without giving any further detail around it.


Personally, I tend to ignore people who give such precise details as to how much and when, because nobody can know those details for certain, and if they did, they wouldn't be publicizing it for free.


----------



## Morrismarina

HarryKane said:


> As a landlord, a property crash is absolutely relevant. If I thought that the market was about to decline, lets say, by about 30%, why wouldn't I sell now and pick up the same property again later at a 30% discount? Of course, I would.



Well a few things here:

1) Firstly you be incredibly lucky to pick up the same property again because somebody's bought it from you - what are the chances they want to sell it back to you at a 30% loss. (Yes it's remotely possible but incredibly unlikely).

2) If you're taxed in the UK you're going to pay capital gains tax on any profit you've made, probably at 40%. And there are the selling agents fees and legal fees for sale and the purchase again. 

The supposed crash is never certain and I reckon as a landlord it would be unlikely you'd sell just on your "thought" that a crash will happen - what if it doesn't and you lose out ? Paid all that tax and fees for nothing !! Most landlords would rather not chance it as they've decided they are in the property game for the long term, so I think in reality a landlord would have to be incredibly brave to do what you suggest. Of couse if they've got to sell for other reasons then that's different but betting on a crash and then a re-purchase........ it's possible but IMO very unlikely stratergy for most landlords. That's why if prices do dip in Dubai so long as tenants can be found landlords won't be in a rush to sell..........hence I reckon a crash is unlikely....... a dip perhaps but not a crash. The problem is when tenants can't be found, then that's a different ball game and I can then see landlords rushing for the exit door fairly quickly. (Only my thoughts sorry for going on a bit).


----------



## IISinbadII

Morrismarina said:


> If you're a landlord a property price crash is irrelevant as you're renting the property out not selling it. What's more important is that you're making a profit or at least breaking even each month.


Actually it is very relevant. This is because in a crash not only the property value but the rental return will also fall. Breaking even is not good enough as rental return is a source of income for many.



HarryKane said:


> If I thought that the market was about to decline, lets say, by about 30%, why wouldn't I sell now and pick up the same property again later at a 30% discount? Of course, I would.


"_Timing the market_", is a risky stretagy. In an up market one would loose a lot, in a down market its like _trying to catch a falling knife!_ So you can get hurt both ways.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

If the JBR rental returns are going to be going down now because of the change of policy in not allowing vaction term rentals at JBR then could it be that the rental renturn on other properties at Dubai Marina will increase because there will be less supply of properties which are able to be rented on vacation lets ? In which case price will be going up for these but down for JBR.


----------



## Morrismarina

Good point Steve. I suppose the one saving grace with JBR owners who wanted to let short term is that they've made a killing in terms of profit. Any idea what say a nice sea-view one bed would have cost in 2002 (which I believe was launch ??) and what it would fetch now ??


----------



## HarryKane

Morrismarina said:


> 1) Firstly you be incredibly lucky to pick up the same property again because somebody's bought it from you - what are the chances they want to sell it back to you at a 30% loss. (Yes it's remotely possible but incredibly unlikely).


When I say the same property, I don't mean necessarily the same exact property, but the same type. In a down market, believe me, you'll have your choice of properties.



Morrismarina said:


> 2) If you're taxed in the UK you're going to pay capital gains tax on any profit you've made, probably at 40%.


Since I'm not taxed in the UK, I couldn't speak on that particular situation.


----------



## HarryKane

IISinbadII said:


> in a down market its like _trying to catch a falling knife!_


No doubt, timing a bottom is difficult. However, if I bought back after a decline of 30%, and the price declined a further 10% after that, I've lost 10%. Whereas, had I held on to my original purchase, I'd be out 40%.


----------



## Morrismarina

HarryKane said:


> No doubt, timing a bottom is difficult. However, if I bought back after a decline of 30%, and the price declined a further 10% after that, I've lost 10%. Whereas, had I held on to my original purchase, I'd be out 40%.


I agree, but in fairness you can't time it perfectly right without a crystal ball. It's a bit like trying to guess the US Dollar exchange rate, who would have thought it would be as weak as it is now. I fixed my rate 12 months ago thinking it was a good deal......how wrong I was !! Anybody think the Dollar will weaken further or has it reached it lowest point now ??


----------



## agod

Crystal balls, and Hindsight are wonderful things, over the years, I have had some good deals and some bad deals, but they only ever show up when I look back at them, and then decide if it was good or bad, trying to sell something now in the hope it will go down so you can buy it back cheaper, is really only for the George Soros, or Warren Buffet, who can move markets, and suffer losses, time is what you need in all things, if my rentals cover the mortgage and expenses thats all that is required of them to see me through, i don't like selling anything, even if I have to support it until it comes right in time.

Alan


----------



## True Blue

Dollar woes, Facts not guaranteed but a good bedtime story. 

Once upon a time banks and finacial institutions thought it a sound idea to keep gold bullion in the vaults as paper money was volotile and bonds sometimes struggled to keep pace with inflation. Banks had so much gold swilling about that there was no more room so they stopped collecting it. Production was maintained and the gold flooding the markets had no buyers, as a result the world price fell to around 25% of its peak value. Wow! 75% of all bank reserves wiped out in such a short time.

Needless to say the love affair with gold bullion was over and the banks turned to the dollar as the next most collectable asset. The dollar seemed to be the answer as it was easily tranferred and most world comodities were priced in this currency. The world money markets then started to buy dollars and US bonds. The dollar then grew in strenght year on year. Infact it wasn't that long ago that we were looking at the dollar being worth £1. Of course things change and Europe got together to form monetary union and create a single currency that would eventually challenge the dollar as a world currency. Ambitious, some thought, if they were only alive today to see that a dollar is now only worth a few euro cents. But what did the dollar fear, everyone still accepted it worldwide. The incoming Bush administration could not see what was around the corner.

You see Mr Bush knew everyone loved dollars and he spent and spent and spent to buy japanese cars, chinese electronics and Middle East oil. Little did he know that printing more dollars to fund purchases when no one was buying anything from America, would devalue his currency. But just kept spending and spending.

Then one day a (adlib your own bit here) and they invaded Iraq. Everyone believed that in a couple of years it would all be over and the US would have a say in the distribution of oil reserves much needed for its gas guzzling cars. Not so, things didn't go to plan and Mr Bush started to print more dollars to pay for his expidition. Billions and Billions of dollars were produced and the value started to decline. Other countries (in the far east) watched with interest and eventually decided that they didn't want dollars in large reserves in their banks. That new Euro thing looked like a good idea so they started converting their dollars into euros and GB pounds. 

This was the worst news possible for the dollar as markets all over the world began to follow suit. Gold and oil was still priced in dollars. The devaluation of the dollar was good for countries buying oil as they got a discount from the cheap dollar but the effect on the gold value was not so good. Banks still had vaults full of the stuff and did not like the dollar falling as it devalued their reserves. Some banks set limits to support the dollar at, to prevent their gold falling critically below the percentage of cash they had in circulation. This worked for a while then more bad economic results sent it into the "2 for a pound" abyss.

The world banks now have to make a big decision, do they let the dollar sort its self out at what ever level that takes it to, or do they support it to maintain economic currency and gold stability? Difficult one when a country which hold a large percentage of oil reserves has just decided that it is no longer accepting dollars in payment for its oil. It now bases the price of its oil in euros. 

The poor property investor is left with the dilema, will the dollar return in the short term to its recent one for one with the euro and $1.75 for a pound? No one can say for sure but if no one else wants dollars at this time why should I want them. May be it is worth holding off and watch what happens next! 

Good Night!!


Now if I could have found this article on the net last year before I bought £100,000 of dollars at $1.77 to cover installments, ah!! hindsight.:bash:


----------



## Morrismarina

Nice article True Blue......you did marginally better than me though...... I bought £115,000 worth of Dirhams (which is really dollars of course) at rate of $1.75 to UK£.
I was reading a few months ago that the issue with the dollar is due to the large US trade deficit. It would normally correct itself over time as the dollar falls against other currencies. However the US is buying a large amount of goods from China and the Chinese government fix the Yuan at a specificed rate to the Dollar, so the dollar is not floating against it & hence not being devalued ..........so the amount of US imports from China cannot reduce. The only way the US trade deficit with China wil decrease is by the Chinese Government floating their currency which is very unilkely, or at least reducing the rate at which it is fixed to the Dollar. The US authorities are pushing them to do this, but so far they're not interested as they prefer to keep the status quo and keep their exports to US high.......so unless the Chinese start playing on a level playing field and float their currency the outlook for the Dollar and eventually all the world's economies, could be quite bleak.
(Four years ago the UK£ was trading at $1.4 now it's $2 which is a massive variation in a short space of time). 
Not sure how this all affects the future of the Dirham though -will they have to break away from the Dollar soon or are they happy with the Dirham being so weak ??


----------



## mackie1964

*Interesting article from the Sunday times this morning*

Worth a read

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/money/investment/article1686697.ece


----------



## True Blue

^^ Only resales. Check the agents like www.dubaipropertycentre.com and www.bhomes.com


----------



## dubaigreen

*Transparancy and Oman*

Hi,

Some questions:

(1) Transparancy. My colleague told me that the government is going to build a web-site in which you could trace the actual sales of properties in Dubai and for what price. This would be great of course. Than we finally get to know the actual market prices, as the Gulf-news ads are inflated or dream prices. Can anyone confirm this initiative ?

(2) How about Oman/Muscat. I just saw the model apartments of the Wave project in Muscat, and woouh, they look beautiful (will put pictures later on this site). Spacious, quality design, etc...and prices most likely from 0.9M dirham to 1.5M dirham for 3BR (200 sqm). Ok, selling will start at end of year, but I am willing to wait. Greg Normal 18-hole golf-course, 6km private beach, marina, etc...Ok, I know, not a proven real-estate market (yet), but worth to have a look at if you like to live there yourself,

Cheers
DB


----------



## Imre

fionnuala said:


> ANYBODY AN IDEA OF COST OF 2 BEDROOM SHORELINE PALM JUMERIAH NOW? OR IS ANY AVAILABLE?



just see the gulfnews, lots of available ,with different prices.

2 beds:

D , Park View , 8th floor , 1582 sqfeet 2.076.789.- AED
E , Garden View , 3rd floor , 1646 sqfeet 2.426.500.- AED
E,Garden View ,2nd floor,1646 sqfeet 1.973.480.- AED
F, See View , 10th floor , 2055 sqfeet 2.905.630.- AED


----------



## sameerl

It is true that each of the master developers (Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Properties) are moving towards web based accounts of all transactions of each of their individual properties. Emaar is furthest along in this development and reports indicate that thwy should be atleast partially online before the end of the year. There is a similar initiative that is being undertaken by the Lands department as well (for all properties in Dubai, freehold and non freehold) but this should take a few years before it comes up.

I agree with your comments on Oman. It certainly appears to be great value for money


----------



## ragga

can someone PM me a thread or some info on muscat/oman?


----------



## Krazy

^^ i believe gowealthy has something


----------



## Dubai_Steve

ragga said:


> can someone PM me a thread or some info on muscat/oman?


http://thewavemuscat.com/?


----------



## mackie1964

A friend of mine has just sold 2 units in JBR for nearly 2.5 times what he got them for back in 2003.....................lucky P*****d.

The interesting thing is the buyers were locals, I don't understand why would a local pay that high premium for a beach front unit. I thought that locals prefer villas and certainly not a beach side high riser..........Now I am really confused, a second home may be!


----------



## smussuw

^^ Perhaps a long run investment?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

mackie1964 said:


> A friend of mine has just sold 2 units in JBR for nearly 2.5 times what he got them for back in 2003.....................lucky P*****d.
> 
> The interesting thing is the buyers were locals, I don't understand why would a local pay that high premium for a beach front unit. I thought that locals prefer villas and certainly not a beach side high riser..........Now I am really confused, a second home may be!


wow, that was a very impressive investment. Especially if he was sensible enough to borrow the money rather than use his own. For example, if he put only 30% deposit down on 2 x AED 700,000 apartments he would have got 500% return on his investment within 4 years.


----------



## IISinbadII

mackie1964 said:


> The interesting thing is the buyers were locals, I don't understand why would a local pay that high premium for a beach front unit. I thought that locals prefer villas and certainly not a beach side high riser..........Now I am really confused, a second home may be!


Why do you think they bought it to live in? Many don't live in vills because they are too expensive to buy or maintain, too big for a small family, too far away from work, etc. But any senceable person will prefer a villa over an appartment and a palace over a villa. So its not an issue of locals or non-locals. May be the locals want to rent them out for extra income, or expect the prices to go up even further (?) and they think its a good investment.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> wow, that was a very impressive investment. Especially if he was sensible enough to borrow the money rather than use his own. For example, if he put only 30% deposit down on 2 x AED 700,000 apartments he would have got 500% return on his investment within 4 years.


Yes, but they also took a *big risk*. I mean in 2004 who knew what will happen to Dubai property in 2007. So now they are being rewarded for the risk they took. Also dont forget the all the delays and what not they had to go through. Now you can buy property in Ajman or RAK for cheap, but the question is, are you willing to take the risk!


----------



## mackie1964

You both make some good and valid points.

He bought them through his company (he is a young entrepreneur) so in a round about way, he used the Bank’s money and I see what you mean Steve. 

@ Sindbad, my opinion is purely based on discussions I had with a local family we met last time we were in Dubai and we since became friends (and possibly future business partners). I got the impression that it would be difficult at present for local families to integrate into the Marina and JBR like communities due to local traditions, I could be wrong but it is a subject that I try to be very sensitive about when discussing. He studied her in the UK but he is (and rightly so) very traditional and would not do any thing that would be seen as diversion from his tradition. I can see most local people similar to this family but I could be wrong and that is why I was surprised if it was purchased as a home. On the other hand if they were bought as an investment, I think it is the wrong time at that premium but again I could be wrong.


----------



## IISinbadII

mackie1964 said:


> @ Sindbad, my opinion is purely based on discussions I had with a local family we met last time we were in Dubai and we since became friends (and possibly future business partners). I got the impression that it would be difficult at present for local families to integrate into the Marina and JBR like communities due to local traditions, I could be wrong but it is a subject that I try to be very sensitive about when discussing. He studied her in the UK but he is (and rightly so) very traditional and would not do any thing that would be seen as diversion from his tradition. I can see most local people similar to this family but I could be wrong and that is why I was surprised if it was purchased as a home. On the other hand if they were bought as an investment, I think it is the wrong time at that premium but again I could be wrong.


Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thaught you were talking about locals and apartments in general. As far as JBR and to some extent Marina is concerned I agree it could be difficult.


----------



## agod

If you pay a premium for something then, it is reconised as being wanted by the majority, therefore it is commanding that premium, I alwasy look for something with a premium on it, luxury cars are a good example, when they hit the market you have to pay a premium to get them, then they turn to dust after 6 months, no different to most things, I have a huge Villa in Florida, www.viewourvilla.com it also commanded a $65000 premium because it was South Facing on the Lake, so it will always get that back in spades, I wouldn't want to live there as huge Villas have huge bills as well with the Mortgage over $5000 a month, but the rentals are covering that.
I suspect this chap, is buying for Investment, as you say he is a traditinalist, so I probably think he did not want to borrow money in the first place, but this Bank seemed to have made it happen, perhaps he had no choice and had to buy at JBR.

Alan


----------



## mackie1964

.....


----------



## IISinbadII

*Why the Dubai Marina traffic jams are unlikely to persist*

A couple of years' ago access to the Emirates Hills district was a nightmare, particularly when The Springs villas were first occupied. Today there is hardly a bad day. It will be the same for the Dubai Marina which experienced near gridlock last week as the new owners of the Jumeirah Beach Residence started to take up possession.

Naturally it would be better if road infrastructure and property handovers could be seamlessly coordinated. However, the Dubai Government is investing many millions in a huge new interchange for the Dubai Marina and Emirates Hills that is only now months away from completion. 

Already this interchange has vastly improved traffic flow from the Dubai Media City to the Emirates Hills, and as its feeder roads into the Dubai Marina are completed it will speed up entry and exit to this district as well. 

Somewhat further down the line and the construction traffic will also be removed from the Dubai Marina as this densely packed region of more than a hundred high-rise towers is completed. Then we will see if the transport analysts have done their homework correctly. 

*Price outlook*

Another concern hovering over the new residents of New Dubai is the outlook for house prices. As with the traffic flow, it could well be that the news gets a bit worse before it gets better. 

For the supply chain in New Dubai is just starting to deliver. The JBR is more than 6,000 units, there at least as many towers from other developers in the immediate area and then the Jumeirah Lake Towers are coming up on the other side of the Sheikh Zayed Road. 

Even the villa market is going to have to contend with the 3,000 villas of The Palm, Jumeriah, a big increase in supply for villas. 

Given that the Dubai Marina is a trendy township, with five-star beach hotels and a waterfront environment, this will probably still be a location of choice for many new migrants to Dubai, assuming that it is possible to get in and out by car. 

*Secondary locations*

Indeed, if you look for precedents in other cities then it is more likely that secondary, non-coastal construction projects will feel the supply pressure exerted by the Dubai Marina with people opting first for the coastal location as oversupply will keep prices down. 

Only when the Dubai Marina is full up, and perhaps also its city counterpart Downtown Dubai by the Burj Dubai, will new residents begin to look at the alternatives. 

For buyers the message should be clear. In a market where oversupply is an issue and demand remains strong but not sufficient, then the old real estate owners' maxim 'location, location, location' is a truer guide than ever. 

It is the outlying areas, where nobody wants to live unless they have to that will suffer most in a downturn. On that estimate any short-term traffic problems in the Dubai Marina should be seen as a buying opportunity and not a long-term issue. Traffic issues can be solved but you can not shift a location. 

Sunday, April 28 - 2007 

Find this article at:
http://www.ameinfo.com/news/Detailed/118162.html


----------



## glover

good find, thanks. A new feed to Dubai Marina was opened a couple of days ago on Interchange 5. An overpass taking you right from SZR to the traffic light in Marina phase 1 is fully open now.

My trips to ibn Battuta are now as traffic free as can be!


----------



## DubaiMarina

*Nakheel to stamp out hidden charges in property transactions* kay:

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10121740.html


----------



## Spotty

Hi everyone, I started to follow this forum some months ago and as a newbie (this is my 1st post) I thank Skyscraper and its members for all the precious informations we can find!

I have read an article in gulf news (21/04/2007 - see below) and I would be the most grateful if you could react on it. One day the notion of freehold (life time) really seems to exist and the other day it's just leasehold... 

"Dubai: Expatriates can purchase an apartment, villa or a plot of land in Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Ajman, Ras Al Khaimah, Umm Al Quwain and get a three-year residency permit.

But they will own the property for only 99 years and the land purchase is only allowed in certain areas of the emirates. 

Sharjah also allows expatriates to invest in land, villa or an apartment for a maximum 99 years, but will not issue a residency visa. 

The residency visa has to be renewed after three years and can be obtained from the residency department at the emirate from which the expatriate purchased the property. The sponsor of the expatriate property owner will be the national property development company from which he or she bought the property. 

While a residency visa is not issued in Sharjah, the expatriate will only receive an "investment contract" from the owner of the property.

The investment contract will be endorsed by the Sharjah Municipality and it will allow the buyer to 'invest' in the apartment for 99 years. But a plot of land can be 'invested' for a specific number of years, but not more than 99 years. However, the ownership will not be given to the buyer because it is an investment contract between the two parties. None of the emirates allow freehold ownership of the property. Freehold means that you fully own the property. As a freeholder you will have full responsibility for the maintenance and repairs of the property.

Maintenance

One should not forget that he or she need to pay yearly cost for his or her property maintenance such as security, cleanliness and for other services.

The maintenance cost will be paid for by the real estate that will take care of the maintenance. 

The cost of maintenance in Dubai for an apartment may exceed Dh50,000 per year depending on the price of the property itself while in Ajman it will not exceed Dh3,000 per year. The property laws are still under review, but most of the expatriate ownership of property is leasehold at present. That means that you own the property for as long as is specified in the lease, such as 99 years. 

At the end of the lease, the property again becomes the possession of the freeholder. The lease stipulates who is responsible for maintaining and repairing different parts of the property and any conditions you must meet as a resident. 

Expatriates can choose from a wide range of property development companies around the emirates who offer wide range of prices for villas, apartments, townhouses, lands, offices or shops."


----------



## IISinbadII

My understanding is that most property development in Dubai is Freehold. In Sharjah however it is leasehold (for 99 years). The maintenance in Dubai for an apartment is arround Dhs 8 to 14 per sq foot per yaer. So for an average 1 BR apt. it would be something like AED 10,000 per year. The residency visa is renewed every 3 years.


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## Krazy

^^ there is nothing "freehold" in the true sense in the entire U.A.E


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The Economist forecasts a slow puncture not a burst bubble for Dubai real estate

Lunch guest at the Arabian Hotel Investment Conference this week was The Economist Group's senior vice president, Dr. Daniel Thorniley who offered his views on the outlook for Dubai real estate. In the same week the CEO of Deyaar, Zack Shahin, suggested the demand for new property in Dubai stood at around 70,000 units a year.

This is clearly a debate that is not going to go away. But it was interesting to have the view from The Economist, which has been talking about real estate bubbles around the world for the past two years. 

'I don't see a bubble in Dubai,' said Dr. Thorniley. 'It is more like a plastic ball that will let a little air out but it will not explode. But no economy booms forever.' 

He pointed out that 80 per cent of the Fortune 500 companies are now located in Dubai, and that such diversification would support the real estate sector going forward with Dubai achieving the critical mass to support further economic growth. 

Deyaar's optimism

Zack Shahin, CEO of Deyaar - the real estate arm of Dubai Islamic Bank whose $877 million initial public offering this month will be the largest ever in the UAE - repeated his view on the real estate demand situation in an interview with Gulf News. 

'There is a monthly influx of more than 60,000 people to the UAE to take up new jobs. And even if we take into account 10 per cent of this influx as the potential number of residents in Dubai, we need to add around 70,000 units every year.' 

But this interpretation of what must surely be airport arrivals is open to question as a source of likely future real estate demand, particularly as it makes no adjustment for the population profile of Dubai which is skewed towards lower-paid workers. 

So even if 70,000 units were required every year, how much of this demand would be for the 200,000 mid-to-high-end units under construction in Dubai? However, it is remarkable that Dubai has managed to convince even the skeptics at The Economist that its economic model will continue to deliver miraculous growth. 

New Dubai entrants

It is certainly not impossible to produce a wish-list of new companies that could enter Dubai or expand their operations here, and for these accommodation requirements to fill up what is being built. For example, every month Emirates Airline adds another aircraft and that flight crew has to be housed somewhere in Dubai. 

In the past Dubai has always worked on the theory that 'build and they will come'. And that is probably what makes forecasting so tricky in Dubai real estate. This is an investment driven market and as a regional hub Dubai has a capacity to create its own future demand from nothing by attracting global business. 

Whether there will be a mismatch in supply before that demand can be created is another issue, and perhaps that is where some air might be let out of the Dubai real estate boom, with the government choosing to hold back some developments while the demand emerges.


----------



## SYP

Comming back to "Freehold" and Spotty's quoted article from Gulf News...

"None of the emirates allow freehold ownership of the property. Freehold means that you fully own the property. As a freeholder you will have full responsibility for the maintenance and repairs of the property."

Does anybody know what legal ground the property/apartments currently sold as "Freehold" is based on? It has been stated that they can be registered with the Dubai land department in the owners name, the developers sell the property/apartments using "Freehold" title leading to believe one thing... and yet Gulf News states that "Freehold" doesn't exist :wtf: 

Most grateful for any inputs on this! Cheers!


----------



## IISinbadII

SYP said:


> Comming back to "Freehold" and Spotty's quoted article from Gulf News...
> 
> "None of the emirates allow freehold ownership of the property. Freehold means that you fully own the property. As a freeholder you will have full responsibility for the maintenance and repairs of the property."


Offcource you have full responsibility for the maintenance and repairs of the property in Dubai. There is a guarantee period after that you have to get everything fixed yourself. You maintain your lawn, etc. 

However there are some things that are shaired by the community. Like the lanscaping and maintenence of the neighborhood roads, community pool, children play area, pay for street lights, security, etc.. At the moment the developer does it for you and you pay a maintenence fee to them for all these services. But new laws are in the pipeline when owners can have an association that will handle all this according to the wishes of the owners.


----------



## DubaiDream

mackie1964 said:


> A friend of mine has just sold 2 units in JBR for nearly 2.5 times what he got them for back in 2003.....................lucky P*****d.
> 
> The interesting thing is the buyers were locals, I don't understand why would a local pay that high premium for a beach front unit. I thought that locals prefer villas and certainly not a beach side high riser..........Now I am really confused, a second home may be!


Does anyone know how much I can expect to pay for a 2 bed in JBR sea facing?


----------



## kano

between 1.6 to 2.00 million aed.....on the secondary market.....you need to check the apartments out before you buy it as the views vary ....even with sea view.


----------



## DubaiDream

kano said:


> between 1.6 to 2.00 million aed.....on the secondary market.....you need to check the apartments out before you buy it as the views vary ....even with sea view.


thanks! Anyone know any agents who might have these on their books?
i'll try bhomes, colliers cre, and hamptons

Does anyone know how many sea view apartments there are likey to be in dubai excluding palm once construction finished?


----------



## IISinbadII

JBR 2 BR with Full sea view arround 2.3 million. If you want Partial sea view it would be cheaper. In any case as kano said, you have to go and look as the views vary from floor to floor and apartment to apartment. 

Here is a list of some JBR apartments at Premier Real Estate Bureau LLC (Phone: +971 4 347 1499 ask for Mr. Zia) who specialize in JBR:

http://www.prebdubai.com/Properties.html

If you have that kind of budget look at other options like the Shoreline apartments at Palm Jumeirah, something in Marina with full Marina view, 2 BR apartment in Old Town with Burj view or better book a Villa with Emaar or Nakheel.


----------



## DubaiDream

Thanks for your help. V. helpful.


----------



## Salty

Have any of you guys noticed that HSBC have introduced an eSaver account paying 6% interest. If you have other accounts with them you can switch your money between the accounts at will using the internet.

Here's the link:

http://www.uae.hsbc.com/1/2/esaver?WT.ac=UAE_CAM0_2007_eSaver02

I don't know of any other accounts paying interest anything like this in Dubai. A very positive development imo.


----------



## Krazy

^^ do you have to be a resident of UAE?


----------



## Krazy

I know it's a bit early but has the handover of early phases of shoreline and JBR had any affects on the average rents in Dubai Marina area?


----------



## DubaiMarina

Krazy said:


> I know it's a bit early but has the handover of early phases of shoreline and JBR had any affects on the average rents in Dubai Marina area?



Not yet but it will.


----------



## glover

Salty said:


> Have any of you guys noticed that HSBC have introduced an eSaver account paying 6% interest. If you have other accounts with them you can switch your money between the accounts at will using the internet.
> 
> Here's the link:
> 
> http://www.uae.hsbc.com/1/2/esaver?WT.ac=UAE_CAM0_2007_eSaver02
> 
> I don't know of any other accounts paying interest anything like this in Dubai. A very positive development imo.


sounded too good to be true, and it is! Read on.

"*6% per annum introductory rate payable until 30th June 2007, thereafter the rate may be varied by the Bank. Terms and Conditions apply."


----------



## mission

Krazy 

I spoke to a director of a well known mgnt agency and she confirmed that there is to much demand for Marina apartments and JBR will not effect the rental income as most JBR apartments are going on holidays lets and family homes.

She told me that everyone wants to live in the marina


----------



## mackie1964

Krazy said:


> ^^ do you have to be a resident of UAE?


The eSaver account is an online only account. It is in UAE dirhams and is available to UAE Nationals or Residents. (from the web site)


----------



## HarryKane

dubaigreen said:


> For now, I am thinking buying 2 townhouses, one in RAK and one close to Abu Dhabi.


Are you put off in any way by the fact that the townhouse in AD is leasehold?


----------



## Krazy

^^ every property in the UAE is leasehold


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> ^^ every property in the UAE is leasehold


Could you explain that please. My understanding is that some are freehold while others are leasehold.


----------



## IISinbadII

HarryKane said:


> Unfortunately, I'm not currently in Dubai to pick up the GulfNews and their online version is not showing much to choose from. As for BH, well frankly, I've gotten better prices than the inflated prices they ask for.


Ask someone to mail you a copy of the Gulfnews Property and Freehold sections. Maybe you can call Gulfnews and they can FedEx them to you.


----------



## mission

Why dont you just look online much easier


----------



## AWE!

Krazy said:


> ^^ every property in the UAE is leasehold


Krazy
There are zones in dubai that specify that the property is freehold. This decree was passed in may 2002 by Sheikh Mo . Thease certain zones include Dubai Marina and the Palm Projects.
Hope this helps.


----------



## IISinbadII

mission said:


> Why dont you just look online much easier


Looking online is one thing, actually being able to buy is another:



> Buying property in the secondary market from real estate agents is not easy. This is what one learns the hard way:
> 
> -The prices quoted on web sites, on phone or even in person are not fixed. Once you show interest in the property the agent checks with the seller who can "update"......... i.e increase the price.
> 
> -Sellers list their property with several agents at the same time......so if you contact other agents you may be offerd the same property with different prices and conditions.
> 
> -Also there could be one or more agents involved between you and your agent...........while you may be under the impression that your agent is talking directly to the seller!
> 
> -Once the negotiation is over, the agent will ask you for a "deposit" or "down payment". There is no fixed amount but it could be 10% of the property value. Giving a deposit does not mean that the property will be sold to you........ It simply means that you are serious!
> 
> -After the deposit a MOU will be written with details the property and the price, etc. You will sign the MOU...........but remember the seller has still not signed it........which means he/she could back out at any point. Seller can ask for more money, may decide not to sell or give it out on rent.............while you were thinking that you have made a deal!
> 
> -Seller could be outside the country. It may take him/her a few days or weeks to return...........while your hotel bill is going up every day!
> 
> -Property may be financed by a bank........this could delay the whole process by 5 or more working days!
> 
> -The seller may not have paid all his/her dues, late payment panelties, etc. So at the time of transfer dont be surprised if the developer needs to be paid (by the seller) more than what you had calculated.
> 
> -Even on the day of transfer, seller may ask for more money........dont give in!
> 
> It is best to clear some of these issues at an early stage of the deal.
> 
> How was your buying experience? do share it with others.....Thanks.


----------



## Krazy

going back to my mortgage with Barclays... you guys have no idea how difficult it is to deal with these guys... after running around in Washington DC, getting Condolezza Rice to verify my residential address and writing 15 post dated checks and a security check for the compelte amount and cutting my limbs and presenting to them as a token of appreciation, my loan has finally been approved and should come through in the next week. I started the process back in late January so you can imagine..

Many thanks to saskia for helping me out. You definitely made it a lot easier for me mate.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Congrats on finally getting it done Krazy! I am glad I went with Dubai Select in the end (which has inbuilt 15 year finance with no documents needed), sounds like a nightmare getting a real Dubai mortgage approved for foreign investors!


----------



## saskia

^^ 

We're planning to rent it out (long term) and eventually sell it - to make an absolute fortune, retire and spend the rest of our lives visiting all five star resorts in the world...:cheers1:


----------



## Krazy

^^ thanks Steve. It's even a bigger pain in the ass if your property is not by one of the big three (Nakheel, Emaar, DP)... then Barclays doesnt finance you and if your choices become extremely limited


----------



## ronski

More than likely, I will be making it my Dubai home


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## Krazy

We will be looking at either short term or long term renting... havent made up our minds.. also have to decide whether to furnish it or not


----------



## Krazy

*Builders stuck as cement prices soar*



Dubai: An unusual jump in cement prices and restrictions on supply are cutting margins and forcing some retailers and customers to opt out of major contracts.

The situation, if not contained now, could have a major impact in the country's real estate market as soaring prices of building materials could make freehold homes costlier.

Companies manufacturing products such as concrete blocks and road kerbs say cement prices have shot up by 15-20 per cent since the start of the year, resulting in halved margins at some organisations.

But, more importantly, the supply of cement churned out by UAE factories is falling well below demand — which can cause missed contract deadlines and late delivery of properties. Some companies even accuse cement manufacturers of holding back supply to drive up prices during the current intensive period of construction activity in Abu Dhabi, Ras Al Khaimah and Dubai — a fact that contradicts the UAE's rules. The Ministry of Economy yesterday said that it is monitoring the prices of essentials and warned against price manipulation.

"It's not all cement companies, but some are cutting back their capacity and using the shortage on the market as an excuse to raise prices," said Nabeel Khu-deiri, marketing manager at National Tiles and Block Co in Ras Al Khaimah.

"They're taking advantage of the current market situation and there's nothing we can do about it — we're like sitting ducks," added a representative of a leading UAE-based concrete block manufacturer, who wanted to remain anonymous.

Companies say price fluctuations and a supply gap could result in their having to opt out of some contract bids as they cannot guarantee delivery times or the future price. A majority of companies contacted by Gulf News said the price of cement is now above Dh305 a tonne compared to Dh260-Dh270 at the start of the year.

Cement price

* May 2007: Dh300-305 per tonne
* January 2007: Dh260-270 per tonne
* May 2004: Dh200 to Dh220 per tonne
* August 2004: Dh270 per tonne


----------



## dubaiflo

It must be the job of the govt to intervene here.


----------



## HarryKane

Krazy said:


> ^^ every property in the UAE is leasehold


Are you saying that the ownership of my freehold property in Dubai will revert back to the Gov in 99 years? That's not what the recent decree states, but it does state that for leasehold villas purchased in AD.


----------



## IISinbadII

saskia said:


> ^^
> We're planning to rent it out (long term) and eventually sell it - to make an absolute fortune, retire and spend the rest of our lives visiting all five star resorts in the world...:cheers1:


kay:


----------



## Krazy

Sindbad are you thinking about buying in MP?


----------



## IISinbadII

ronski said:


> More than likely, I will be making it my Dubai home


The only requirement is that you should also own a yacht


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> We will be looking at either short term or long term renting... havent made up our minds.. also have to decide whether to furnish it or not


Naturally you will make much more money renting short term. Here are some points that may help you make up your mind.:

-It takes a months time to get it all going.
-You should have the money to furnish it (AED 30,000 for 1 BR). You could recover it in the first year so starting year two you make good money.
-You dont get the years rents upfront, you get it on monthly bases. Takes 2 months to receive your first check. So its hard if you need cash rightaway.


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> 4 Bdr units in Yansoon in Old Town are being advertised for Dhs 250,000/year rental


Burj area is like the _Upper East side _of Manhattan and _Champs-Elysées _of Paris. The rent could go even higher once the Mall and Burj completes. Besides I bet the rent is less than 10% of the market value of the apartment.


----------



## rexdmx

sinbad;you heard of this no doubt. what was your view on this???note especially the role of the government..






Deyaar IPO closes on strong note 
By Babu Das Augustine, Banking Editor



Dubai: The Dh3.178 billion initial public offering (IPO) of Deyaar, the real estate arm of Dubai Islamic Bank, closed yesterday and was oversubscribed, the chief executive officer of the company told Gulf News yesterday.

"The investor response has been excellent. We have crossed 10 times subscription. Thousands of last-minute applications are still under process and we expect to get the exact figure in the next couple of days," Zack Shahin said.

The IPO - the largest in the UAE - got off to a slow start on May 6 but subscriptions picked up as the closing date neared.

"Both institutional and retail tranches received manifold oversubscriptions. Investor response has been particularly very good from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the UAE," he said.

Institutional tranche represented 80 per cent of the issue. The 20 per cent retail tranche received more than 50,000 applications by Wednesday afternoon, Shahin said.

The retail subscriptions got a big boost as the Dubai government guaranteed a firm allotment of up to 20,000 shares to each of the UAE national staff working in the Ministry of Education.


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ I think it is an Islamic banking product which is in demand nowadays. A large sector of investors are likely to favour such products.


----------



## sameerl

Would appreciate if you could expand on that comment. My understanding is that this is a real estate developer..its main shareholder is Dubai Islamic bank, but this by no means should influence the investors who choose to buy the product...infact, if you look at the balance sheets, emaar is even less levered than Deyaar (both companies debt are islamic, although emaar has the option to go for non islamic debt as well).


----------



## mackie1964

sameerl said:


> mackie1964:
> 
> Yes you need a license for consultancy activity. Not too difficult to get, especially in free zones. If you are interested, i can PM you contact nos for some people that have been helpful in this area.


Many thanks for the Contact Information, they seem to be a good company and I am currently talking to them.


----------



## rexdmx

i know that it is a subsidiary of DIB 
By the way how is the debt level in emaar and deyaar? 
are most developers financed by debts?

if you are looking at emaar's balance sheet(could you mail it to me please..)
how would you rate its potential from a strictly fundamental point of view 

i mean; what would buffet do???




sameerl said:


> Would appreciate if you could expand on that comment. My understanding is that this is a real estate developer..its main shareholder is Dubai Islamic bank, but this by no means should influence the investors who choose to buy the product...infact, if you look at the balance sheets, emaar is even less levered than Deyaar (both companies debt are islamic, although emaar has the option to go for non islamic debt as well).


----------



## mackie1964

Lloyds TSB enhances UAE mortgage market 
Lloyds TSB Dubai has contributed to the ongoing development of the finance sector in the Dubai property market and the United Arab Emirates'' (UAE) other segments by offering mortgages to a broader range of real estate developments.

The institution, which is the only AAA-rated bank in the UAE, will now be offering loans on Al Hamra Real Estate''s Al Hamra Village and Royal Breeze developments in Ras Al Khaimah.

Al Hamra Village is a 2.5 billion dirham (£342.6 million) addition to the property and tourism market and is popular owing to its natural scenery and laid-back lifestyle.

It has been developed in phases and both expatriate and national homeowners in the village are currently receiving delivery of new real estate units.

Dr Khater Massad, adviser to the crown prince of Ras Al Khaimah, said: "People living and owning properties today at Al Hamra Village demonstrates our resolve to create and deliver world class user-friendly communities for global citizens under the vision and leadership of His Highness Sheikh Saud bin Saqr Al Qassimi.

"We welcome Lloyds TSB to the Al Hamra Village family and this tie-up represents our commitment to provide our customers with best services."

Property in Dubai and other parts of the UAE has proved increasingly popular recently with investors who want to enjoy a lifestyle and environment that is detached from the stress of living in the UK.


----------



## 974agk

Quick one here can anybody advise what it should cost for a 2 bedroom appt in the JLT area & is £147K reasonable value.

^^ 
Krazy sorry if this is on the wrong forum please accept my appoligies , just requiring some on advice on best areas was looking at the Torch earlier today ,but it's way behind schedule .
Thx
Eck


----------



## HarryKane

974agk said:


> Quick one here can anybody advise what it should cost for a 2 bedroom appt in the JLT area & is £147K reasonable value.


It would be helpful if you could at least mention which building you were considering.


----------



## Krazy

974agk said:


> Quick one here can anybody advise what it should cost for a 2 bedroom appt in the JLT area & is £147K reasonable value.
> 
> ^^
> Krazy sorry if this is on the wrong forum please accept my appoligies , just requiring some on advice on best areas was looking at the Torch earlier today ,but it's way behind schedule .
> Thx
> Eck



Are you looking to buy property solely for investment purpose or are you gonna use it yourself? what's your budget? if you can provide more details, then you can be advised accordingly.. whatever it is, dont rush into making a decision


----------



## IISinbadII

974agk said:


> Quick one here can anybody advise what it should cost for a 2 bedroom appt in the JLT area & is £147K reasonable value.


Thats a little over AED 1 Million. The price depends upon many things including area of apt. (excluding balcony), floor, view, date of completion, quality, developer, etc. You should compare the price with those in nearby Marina and also in the Greens area.


----------



## sameerl

rexdmx:

Emaar is trading at a price earnings multiple of less than 10, which almost alone qualifies it as a buy on most value investors lists. The debt/gearing levels are low for emaar as well as deyaar (you can access emaar's financials on their website ww.emaar.com), a fact that works against them. Most property developers have high gearing ratios, and this enhances their ROE levels. Emaar has not gone down this route, (although they have issued a couple of sukuk instruments). Their most recent land for stock swap with dubai holding further increases their equity level, and makes it that much more difficult for them to service. 
If youre a value investor (3-5 years), emaar is cheap by any standard. If youre more short term, momentum based, then this is not the pick at the present time


----------



## rexdmx

thanks for your comment
are you a fund manager or something??
which portfolio of stock do you own? (u can tell me PM..:righton: ?
i would keep it a secret :lol: 

but serious sameerl what is the minimum gearing ratio one should expect for a property industry...




sameerl said:


> rexdmx:
> 
> Emaar is trading at a price earnings multiple of less than 10, which almost alone qualifies it as a buy on most value investors lists. The debt/gearing levels are low for emaar as well as deyaar (you can access emaar's financials on their website ww.emaar.com), a fact that works against them. Most property developers have high gearing ratios, and this enhances their ROE levels. Emaar has not gone down this route, (although they have issued a couple of sukuk instruments). Their most recent land for stock swap with dubai holding further increases their equity level, and makes it that much more difficult for them to service.
> If youre a value investor (3-5 years), emaar is cheap by any standard. If youre more short term, momentum based, then this is not the pick at the present time


----------



## razz

IISinbadII said:


> Thats a little over AED 1 Million. The price depends upon many things including area of apt. (excluding balcony), floor, view, date of completion, quality, developer, etc. You should compare the price with those in nearby Marina and also in the Greens area.




I didn't know that the price of an apartment did not cover the balcony area.
Does that mean that when a completed apartment is valued for resale it will not take into account the balcony?


----------



## IISinbadII

razz said:


> I didn't know that the price of an apartment did not cover the balcony area.
> Does that mean that when a completed apartment is valued for resale it will not take into account the balcony?


When you calculate the price per sq. ft., usually the balcony is not included same way as the car park area is not included. No doubt a large balcony, nice view, etc help in resale.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ I am not sure you are correct about that.

The sq footage is usually taken from the developers plans or brochures. In these brochures the balcony is usually included in order to make the apartment sound bigger than it really is.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ I am not sure you are correct about that.
> 
> The sq footage is usually taken from the developers plans or brochures. In these brochures the balcony is usually included in order to make the apartment sound bigger than it really is.


Let us take the example of Emaar. In the main contract they give the sq footage of your unit without balcony. They attach a floor plan seperately which gives you the size of the balcony. So I guess it differs from developer to developer.


----------



## sameerl

rexdmx:

Well, the answer depends on which part of th world you are looking at. For example, in the West (Europe and North America), leverage ratios are pretty high (average of 30-50% debt/equity levels). In Asia (Japan predomiantly, but applicable even in Hong Kong and China), the gearing levels are much higher, as interest burden is lower. However, what is clear is that debt levels for UAE real estate companies are pretty low. Now this is primarily because much of the land to the companies has been granted (in the case of Emaar, Dubai Properties, Nakheel, Limitless, etc), or given at subsidized rates (Deyaar) which eliminates much of the need to borrow. Project finance levels should increase dramtically as off plan property sales slow (evidence of this is already taking place)...Also, international expansion for Emaar that is taking place will have to logically be funded partially by debt as granted land will not be an option. Now, if you take the current ROE levels of Emaar, or Deyaar and halve it (to account for slowing property markets), but increase the level of gearing to world norms, you have ROE levels that exceed 18-22%, thereby making the decision to buy a no brainer...again, for the long term


----------



## rexdmx

you seem to have a point there about the project finance levels which should soar in the future  . see the latest article from gulfnews in the banking/finance sector...




UAE banks to borrow more from abroad 
By Babu Das Augustine, Banking Editor 



Dubai: The banking sector in the UAE is poised for huge growth in external borrowings this year, according to international rating agencies.

Banking sector analysts with both Moody's and Standard & Poor's said the growing funding needs of domestic and regional economies have given rise to a boom in long-term external borrowings. 

According to Mardig Haladjian, general manager of Moody's Investor Services, UAE banks are increasingly targeting longer term big ticket lending in areas such as infrastructure lending and mortgages. "To match the tenures of their new assets, many banks are looking at international capital market to raise medium to long term funds," he added. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To address growing long term funding needs, Emirates Bank is seeking to raise funds through medium term borrowing. Last month the bank announced an increase in its Euro Medium Term Note (EMTN) programme ceiling to $ 7.5 billion. 

A number of UAE-based banks have medium term note issues of various sizes and maturities in the pipeline. Like all companies, banks' assets must equal liabilities plus shareholders' equity. The two largest items within the different categories are customer deposits and customer loans. This funding gap needs to be financed, and this is usually done initially by increasing inter-bank borrowing, then by increasing long-term funding such as debt financing, and ultimately by increasing equity financing. 

Lending opportunities

"In the UAE the lending opportunities are growing exponentially and the local banks will be forced to borrow to increase their asset size," said Emmanuel Volland, Director, Financial Services of Standard and Poors.

According to Moody's, the UAE banks' move towards more stable funding sources is a positive step that will reduce future maturity mismatches. 

"While most UAE banks are over capitalised and have enough room for further leverage, there is a healthy appetite for debts from these institutions in Europe and Asia because of the strong credit ratings they enjoy," said Haladjian.








sameerl said:


> rexdmx:
> 
> Well, the answer depends on which part of th world you are looking at. For example, in the West (Europe and North America), leverage ratios are pretty high (average of 30-50% debt/equity levels). In Asia (Japan predomiantly, but applicable even in Hong Kong and China), the gearing levels are much higher, as interest burden is lower. However, what is clear is that debt levels for UAE real estate companies are pretty low. Now this is primarily because much of the land to the companies has been granted (in the case of Emaar, Dubai Properties, Nakheel, Limitless, etc), or given at subsidized rates (Deyaar) which eliminates much of the need to borrow. Project finance levels should increase dramtically as off plan property sales slow (evidence of this is already taking place)...Also, international expansion for Emaar that is taking place will have to logically be funded partially by debt as granted land will not be an option. Now, if you take the current ROE levels of Emaar, or Deyaar and halve it (to account for slowing property markets), but increase the level of gearing to world norms, you have ROE levels that exceed 18-22%, thereby making the decision to buy a no brainer...again, for the long term


----------



## glover

anyone knows what Emaar's policy is about late payments!! are they kind of flexiable about payment dates! do they charge interest on the outstanding balance!


----------



## rexdmx

Published: 21/05/2007 12:00 AM (UAE)

Zabeel buys 12% stake in Emaar Industries 
By Shakir HusainStaff Reporter



Dubai: Dubai-based Zabeel Investments said it has acquired a 12 per cent stake in Emaar Industries and Investments (EII), an Emaar Properties subsidiary that operates a number of light manufacturing units in the country.

The company said the EII stake is part of its efforts to diversify its investment portfolio, which is currently dominated by the real estate sector.

According to Zabeel Investments executive chairman Mohammad Ali Al Hashmi, the company's property portfolio is worth Dh12.5 billion.

"We are looking for opportunities to diversify into new areas. There are many sectors that are important to the Dubai economy like healthcare, education, finance and services," Al Hashmi told Gulf News. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Developing a viable industrial sector is considered crucial to Dubai's ambitious target of an 11 per cent annual economic growth to achieve a GDP of $108 billion by 2015.

Manufacturing contrib-uted Dh73.4 billion to the UAE economy last year, accounting for 19.5 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP), Al Hashmi said.

Zabeel's 12 per cent EII stake includes purchase of Amlak Finance's 10 per cent share in the company. Zabeel did not say how much it paid for the transaction.

Zabeel is now the second largest shareholder in EII after Emaar Properties, which owns 40 per cent of the company.

Al Hashmi said the current focus of his company's investments will remain on the UAE.

"At the moment our focus is within the UAE. Opportunities that exist in the UAE are not available anywhere else in the world," he said.

To benefit from the boom in hospitality projects, Zabeel recently ventured into the hotel management business by setting up Tiara Hotels & Resorts.

Zabeel Investments and EII were among three companies that created Advanced Industries Group (AIG) in Sharjah's Hamriyah Free Zone last year.


----------



## Masood

*Desert Rose - Jumeirah Village South*

Dear All,

Hope some of you guys can shed some light on studios apartments that I have purchased on the Desert Rose development in Jumeirah Village South.

Details of the apartments are as follows:

Development: Desert Rose
Developer: Desert Home
Master Developer: Limitless
Location: Jumeirah Village South

The questions I have are as follows:

1) Can anybody tell me if they have heard of Desert Home and if so, what sort of reputation they have (I belive they have one other development in Dubai which they have completed)

2) I purchased the studios (424 sqft) at approximately 350,000 AED each. Does that sound like a good investment for this development/area ?

3) I have recently been told by the developer that the project was due to be completed by March 2008, but shoring had only started in March 07 and that they believed the project would be completed by June 08. Does this sound like usual developer talk or is this feasible (anybody with any recent news on progress at Jumeirah village south!) ?

4) Realistically, what sort of price could I expect from this sort of apartments now, and when fully complete (based on similar developments in the village) ?

Anybody able to answer any of the above questions will help me allay some of my fears as I live in London!

Thanks...
Mohamed.


----------



## IISinbadII

Kuwait yesterday dropped the Dinar's peg to Dollar and attached it to an undisclosed Basket of Currencies. Do you guys think UAE will do the same with the Dirham...... And if so what impect will this have on the property market? Thanks.


----------



## Imre

^^ Gulfnews

*Chances of UAE revaluing its currency increase *
By Babu Das Augustine, Banking Editor 



Dubai: Kuwait's decision to peg its currency to a basket of currencies instead of the dollar has increased the chances that the UAE will revalue the dirham, economists and currency analysts said yesterday.

"*We see a 25 per cent chance of the UAE revaluing its currency by the end of this year*. Kuwait's decision to drop the dinar's peg to the dollar will put pressure on the UAE and other Gulf countries to revalue their currencies, but we see the UAE as the most likely candidate," said Steve Brice, an economist with Standard Chartered Bank.

Due to the growing frustration over the declining value of the dinar and the pressure of imported inflation, there was strong speculation that Kuwait would revalue the dinar. However, the change in the peg was least expected. 


"The move towards an independent monetary policy would be tempting for many Gulf central banks, but I would still be surprised if we see any [other] Gulf country changing the value of its currency or nature of its peg," said Simon Williams, an economist with HSBC Middle East.

Although the UAE Central Bank did not officially comment on Kuwait's decision, central bank governors from across the region said Kuwait's move would not have any impact on currency pegs in other Gulf countries. 

"Our position is clear, there is no change," Rash-eed Al Maraj, Bahrain's governor, said.

"In light of the change in the Kuwaiti dinar's exchange rate, the bank reaffirms that there is no intention to change the exchange rate of the riyal," Saudi governor Hamad Saud Al Sayyari said.

Before shifting to a currency peg against the dollar in January 2003, Kuwait managed its exchange rate on a trade-weighted basis. This model still holds some sway at the central bank. 

In 2003, Kuwait allowed its dinar to trade in a 3.5 per cent band around the reference rate of 0.29963 per dollar. It revalued the currency in May 2006, allowing a 1 per cent appreciation against the dollar.

"The goal of the adjustment is clearly to fight imported inflation. However, the basket is expected to be dollar heavy. The nature of the basket can be judged only after we see how the currency moves in the next few days," said Williams.

"If the target is imported inflation, Kuwait should opt for an import-weighted index to benchmark its currency. In the import-weighted index dollar has a weightage of less than 30 per cent while in a trade-weighted index, the dollar still holds a weightage of more than 70 per cent," said Brice. 

With inputs from Reuters


----------



## interfox

IISinbadII said:


> When you calculate the price per sq. ft., usually the balcony is not included same way as the car park area is not included. No doubt a large balcony, nice view, etc help in resale.


Hi, in prospectus Dubai Star, sizes 1 BR with a balcony are specified:

385*404=155540 = 15.5540 sq.m bedroom
350*155=54250 = 5.4250 sq.m balcon
375*570=213750 = 21.3750 sq.m living
235*250=58750 = 5.8750 sq.m pantry
255*200=51000 = 5.1000 sq.m bathroom
130*190=24700 = 2.4700 sq.m washroom
80*120 = 9600 = 0.9600 sq.m laundry

We get total area 56,77 sq.m instead of 87.35 sq.m =940 sqft, that is only 65%, I can’t find still 35% area.

How it to explain?


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ any walkways inside the apt., cupboards, area under the walls. Some may even asign a share of the _common area _in front of your apartment i.e. area from the lift to your door......best thing would be to just ask them.


----------



## IISinbadII

You have already purchased the apartments...... You should have asked these questions before buying, don't you think?


----------



## dubaigreen

*Funny*



interfox said:


> Hi, in prospectus Dubai Star, sizes 1 BR with a balcony are specified:
> 
> 385*404=155540 = 15.5540 sq.m bedroom
> 350*155=54250 = 5.4250 sq.m balcon
> 375*570=213750 = 21.3750 sq.m living
> 235*250=58750 = 5.8750 sq.m pantry
> 255*200=51000 = 5.1000 sq.m bathroom
> 130*190=24700 = 2.4700 sq.m washroom
> 80*120 = 9600 = 0.9600 sq.m laundry
> 
> We get total area 56,77 sq.m instead of 87.35 sq.m =940 sqft, that is only 65%, I can’t find still 35% area.
> 
> How it to explain?


Funny, I have gone through the same process. I ended up looking at the total width (X) and length (Y) (you can calculate X and Y by looking at the room sizes), and than just multiple X*Y, so you get a feeling if the quotes on the total size is more or less correct. Many times it is not. Most interesting one I found is that they sometimes calculate the car-park space as well.....


----------



## IISinbadII

glover said:


> anyone knows what Emaar's policy is about late payments!! are they kind of flexiable about payment dates! do they charge interest on the outstanding balance!


^^ 



> 12. DEFAULT BY THE PURCHASER
> 
> The Purchaser shall pay interest at the rate of one percent (1%) per month on all instalment payment and other payments due to the Vendor for each day that payments are in default. In the event that this default is not cured within thirty (30) days from the due date, the Vendor shall have the right, at its option, on fourteen (14) days written notice to the Purchaser, to terminate this Agreement and if the payment default has not been remedied within the said fourteen (14) days notice period, this Agreement shall automatically terminate and in such event all payments previously made by the Purchaser (the “Agreed Amount”), shall be absolutely forfeited to the Vendor as liquidated damages. The parties hereby agree that the Agreed Amount constitutes a genuine and reasonable pre-estimate of the damages that will be suffered by the Vendor as a result of such default by the Purchaser. The Purchaser hereby acknowledges and agrees that the forfeiture of the Agreed Amount in the foregoing circumstances is fair and equitable, is not harsh or unconscionable and does not constitute a penalty.
> 
> From:
> http://www.emaar.com/Developments/contract_conditions/unit/Index.asp


----------



## interfox

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ any walkways inside the apt., cupboards, area under the walls. Some may even asign a share of the _common area _in front of your apartment i.e. area from the lift to your door......best thing would be to just ask them.


Sorry, walls and total area for all enters into cost of square foot, walls are calculated in volume, instead of in the area. Means, what total area for all are calculated two times?


----------



## Masood

Don't you think I would've asked these questions ?

The fact of the matter is you get all the talk from the agents and developers about the location, estimated capital appreciation e.t.c. . . . and it's hard to gauge how much they really are talking up the development.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing IISinbadII, unfortunately I neither any other person have been blessed with . . .


----------



## IISinbadII

Masood said:


> The fact of the matter is you get all the talk from the agents and developers about the location, estimated capital appreciation e.t.c. . . . and it's hard to gauge how much they really are talking up the development.


Hypotheticaly speakiing, this is how some agents and developers in Dubai may talk:

_Here is a great investment opportunity. The developer is offereing 15% pre-launch discount. Only one day left. The price will go up tomorrow. Only one floor is left. I have a list. If you buy the whole floor, we can get another 10% off and you get the parking space free. You can book today with just 5000 dirhams refundable check. So you have nothing to loose. Next week when the project is launched prices will go up 15%. If you hold another 3 months you can double your money as it ill go up another 10%. This location is the future of Dubai. Compare this price with similar apartments in Tokyo, Hong Kong, London and New York, its way cheap. Actually its cheaper than the average cost of such a unit in Dubai. There is a health club, swimming pool, business center, retail shop, blaa, blaa, blaa....."_

What they dont tell you is:
The developer has little experience. The project is in the middle of nowhere. The construction has not started yet, or is only a big hole in the desert. The have released only 2 floors for sale (out of 8) one has been sold so far after months of effort. So the other floor is still to be sold. There is no guarantee that prices will go up in 3 months or if there would even be a buyer for your unit. God knows when the project will complete. The aminities are part of almost every development in dubai. A market correction is due next year.


----------



## IISinbadII

Now regarding your investment and questions. I would not be able to help you much. But here is some food for thought.

In International City you can buy a completed (or near completion) Studio unit 470 sq ft for AED 330,000 or so. You can rent it out for AED 35,000 per year or so. If your net is say 30,000 per year. BY June 08, the studio would cost you about 300,000 AED. 

Now assuming Jumeirah Village South is likely to be more prstigious than International City and the quality of your studio would be better also.....you can do the math and see if it is a good investment.

You should also look at prices for units in Discovery Garden area.

This is the best I could do for you brother. May be someone elso could help you out more. I hope the investment comes out good for you, InshaAllah.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dear *Krazy*, I request you to merge these posts with the investment thread. May be someone could help this brother. Shukran.


----------



## Masood

IISinbadII said:


> Now regarding your investment and questions. I would not be able to help you much. But here is some food for thought.
> 
> In International City you can buy a completed (or near completion) Studio unit 470 sq ft for AED 330,000 or so. You can rent it out for AED 35,000 per year or so. If your net is say 30,000 per year. BY June 08, the studio would cost you about 300,000 AED.
> 
> Now assuming Jumeirah Village South is likely to be more prstigious than International City and the quality of your studio would be better also.....you can do the math and see if it is a good investment.
> 
> You should also look at prices for units in Discovery Garden area.
> 
> This is the best I could do for you brother. May be someone elso could help you out more. I hope the investment comes out good for you, InshaAllah.


IISinbadII, thanks for your advice brother - appreciate it. Hope I didn't sound patronising, but there's just all this information around and it's difficult to ascertasin what the real story is.

Thanks once again.


----------



## Imre

2 HOT Deals today , I think this is very good price

22/May/2007

Marina View Towers







and I found 2 very good deals in the Gulfnews 

studio 18th floor , Marina View 412 sqf 535K
studio 11th floor , Marina View 441 sqf 575K

contact:+971 4 399 5544

HURRY!


----------



## IISinbadII

Masood said:


> IISinbadII, thanks for your advice brother - appreciate it. Hope I didn't sound patronising, but there's just all this information around and it's difficult to ascertasin what the real story is.
> 
> Thanks once again.


You are welcome. My advise to you is to stay with this forum. If you have any questions feel free to ask as there are many knowledgeable members. I have myself learnt a lot by reading these threads. Esp the one on investments.


----------



## rexdmx

all right then,,
sameerl, sinbad; you both heard of the UAE deciding not to delink the currency to the dollar.
what is the effect for the common man here, abroad and investments especially towards the real estate sector,
what is effect of inflation here as well.
do you think a strong monetary policy is needed here or not..

more question coming...


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ I am no expert. So here is my understanding:

It will remain cheaper for Europians to buy property in Dubai against their stronger currencies. If UAE were to delink, it is said that it would have helped with the inflation problem. So I would say things are likely to remain same for now.


----------



## sameerl

rexdmx:

I have given my opinion in the other thread (i think a revaluation is likely and is probably coming sooner rather than later)

Impact on the real estate sector: 

If the appreciation is +3to 5% then a negligible impact, if any. If its more than that, then there will likely be a pause in real estate prices, as they become more expensive in USD terms. 

A strong monetary policy is needed, (a flexible monetary policy is perhaps the best indicator of a maturing economy with depth). Inflation has become endemic, and inflation expectations are very high. A medium term depreciating US Dollar will only add to these concerns. Kuwait's move, i think, is the first that many in the region will emulate


----------



## rexdmx

that is once in a blue moon.
marina apartments save for some are usually small...

BTW where did u get the centro floorplans? which website..



Krazy said:


> that's not particularly true.. for example have a look at the floor plans of the recently launched centro towers... one of the smallest apartments in dubai freehold market


----------



## IISinbadII

rexdmx said:


> they are going within the same range now...


This could be because the cost of construction is incresing or for whatever reason Emaar has increased its price for newer projects.


----------



## glover

rexdmx said:


> they are going within the same range now...


on average, its about AED 1,400 pr sq ft in Burj Dubai area, and that's 18 months to completion. you can buy something ready to move in in the Marina now for about AED 1,200 per sq ft


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Where is 1200 per sq ft in the marina. Do you mean the arse end?


----------



## Krazy

^^ no even Time Place should be around that price range


----------



## Julito-dubai

http://www.gowealthy.com/realestate/uae/dubai/b2btower/index.asp


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Seems time place is around 1200 to 1300 per sq ft at the moment, during construction. Seems surprisingly cheap. I guess this will zoom up after completion. Apartment sizes are small though.


----------



## mackie1964

^^ 900 sqft for 1 bed apartment is not a bad size, by October it will achieve AED1500/sqft for the right apartment easily.


----------



## Krazy

*Abu Dhabi office rents double*



The UAE capital saw office rents double in the five months to May, a report said yesterday.

Abu Dhabi, New Delhi, and Sofia witnessed the world’s fastest-growing office rents in the year so far, according to data from consulting firm CB Richard Ellis.

The property services company’s report said London and Tokyo have the world’s four most expensive office locations. The West End in London has average rents of $241 (Dh885) per sq ft for prime office accommodation.

New Delhi made its debut in the top 10, replacing Mumbai in 7th place, which rose to 5th on the back of a continued boom in data-centre and information technology operations.

The world’s fastest-growing office rents were in Abu Dhabi, where rents more than doubled in the given period.

Sofia in Bulgaria was the third fastest-growing market, with a 63 per cent increase in rents, as economic expansion in the European Union newcomer lures multinational companies and nurtures domestic business growth.

But London’s West End and City districts remained top of the European rental league. Office rents in West End were around double those paid in Moscow, Paris and Dublin – Europe’s most expensive office markets outside London, the data showed.

Hong Kong has the world’s highest average apartment rents for expatriates, well above Tokyo, New York and London, according to another study released yesterday.

Altogether, Asia accounted for half of the top 10 most expensive cities for rental apartments for expatriate workers, while Nairobi was the world’s cheapest.

The survey was carried out by international human resources consultancy ECA among relocation companies, real estate agents and foreign workers. The study took unfurnished three-bedroom apartments as a base as they were the most commonly rented by expatriates.

In Hong Kong, such a flat in an area popular with expatriates would fetch nearly $8,600 (Dh31,575) a month.

That is more expensive than the average rental price for foreigners in Tokyo, which ranked the world’s second at a little under $7,360 (Dh27,025) a month.

After Hong Kong and Tokyo, the third most expensive city was New York where a three-bedroom flat for an expatriate costs an average $7,250 (Dh26,615) to rent, then Moscow, Seoul, London, Mumbai, Shanghai, Caracas and Paris.

Large increases were noticed in rental prices over the past decade in Doha and Dubai, up 130 and 100 per cent respectively.


----------



## DubaiMarina

*Gulf economies face real estate risk*

*Gulf economies face real estate risk*
by Reuters on Thursday, 24 May 2007 

Gulf Arab economies would be at risk should regional real estate markets crash as investors and banks continued to inject petrodollars into booming property projects, National Bank of Kuwait (NBK) said on Wednesday.

The rise in the number of buildings, increasing construction costs, higher interest rates and regional tensions represented a risk for Gulf real estate markets which were difficult to assess due to lack of transparency, it said.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> Seems time place is around 1200 to 1300 per sq ft at the moment, during construction. Seems surprisingly cheap. I guess this will zoom up after completion. Apartment sizes are small though.


Its not fair to compare Emaar products with those of small developers. Not that other developers dont do a good job, just that Emaar has become a symbol of quality. Also multi-building complexes should not be compared with single towers even if they are by the same developer. One should compare Emaar products in Marina and their prices with similar developments in Burj. For example how much is 1 BR in _Park Island _at Marina and 1 BR in _Lofts_ at Burj.

BTW, I have seen Time Place from inside.


----------



## glover

^^ 
good point. 

BTW you can get one beds for less than AED 1,200 sq ft in the Promenade now, which is only 6 months away from completion. Also, i talked to a real estate agent today. she said the Brj Dubai area is more expensive than the Marina. An average one bedroom is going for 1.5m now (mind you, none is completed yet!) she also said the occupancy rate for short let furnished apartments is over 90% now, with an average rate of AED 700 per night!


----------



## mackie1964

IISinbadII said:


> BTW, I have seen Time Place from inside.


When did you do so and what did you think of the quality?


----------



## IISinbadII

mackie1964 said:


> When did you do so and what did you think of the quality?


Dec 06, I saw a few apts I think on the 2nd floor. Marina view was good. The quality was ok for the price.


----------



## romaforever

Hello everyone,
I have a question about the tax in Dubai. I realtor told me that not all areas are tax free in Dubai. So, he told me that City of Arabia has tax. Could you explain if this is true? Would I have tax on the rent or capital apreciation in City of Arabia? Thanks


----------



## Morrismarina

That's just BS it's the same as anywhere else in Dubai.


----------



## romaforever

Thank you. I had the same feeling but I liked to be sure. This realtor has been trying to convince to buy one of his deals and because he does not have offers in COA then he invents BS. I just liked to have the certainty. Thank you


----------



## Krazy

^^ which real estate company is this? :weird:


----------



## romaforever

Krazy, I contacted you with a PM. 

For everyone, what are the *best projects* (please list the name of the buildings) which *will maximize the long term capital apreciation and long term rent income*? I do not care if residential or commercial. If all the conditions are the same better residential, so I have a place where to go (just in case  ). I would like to spend less than $100k in cash and finance the left over with the rent. COA (for example Wadi Walk or Metro Tower) has a nice payment option to give only the 50% and then the rest in 7 years. But is it good investment? Some of you guys said NO. Please advise.

I care about the rent income because I ma thinking to work for my pension because I do not trust the governments anywhere. So, I think about it now when I am young


----------



## Krazy

^^ any commercial space that will be completed and handed over to you in the next year or so is an excellent investment in my opinion. In the next year or so, there is going to be an over supply of residential space accompanied by an existing shortage of commercial space. I suggest buying an office in JLT area since it's both freezone and freehold. 

Have a look at Saba Tower (already completed), Fortune Executive (completion in about 2 years), Tiffany Tower (completion in about 2 years) etc...


----------



## IISinbadII

romaforever said:


> Thank you. I had the same feeling but I liked to be sure. This realtor has been trying to convince to buy one of his deals and because he does not have offers in COA then he invents BS. I just liked to have the certainty. Thank you


Are you sure he said "tax free" and not "*free zone*". There are some areas in Dubai that are free zones for busnisses. Which means that people can open offices and businesses without a local partner (sponcer). For example Jumerah Lake Towers (JLT) and Dubai Silicon Oasis (DSO) are free zones. What area was he trying to sell you.


----------



## IISinbadII

romaforever said:


> For everyone, what are the *best projects* (please list the name of the buildings) which *will maximize the long term capital apreciation and long term rent income*? I do not care if residential or commercial. If all the conditions are the same better residential, so I have a place where to go (just in case  ). I would like to spend less than $100k in cash and finance the left over with the rent. COA (for example Wadi Walk or Metro Tower) has a nice payment option to give only the 50% and then the rest in 7 years. But is it good investment? Some of you guys said NO. Please advise.
> 
> I care about the rent income because I ma thinking to work for my pension because I do not trust the governments anywhere. So, I think about it now when I am young


I agree with what Krazy has said. Just want to stress that there is risk in every investment and a market correction is possible next year. Having said that,if you want to achive your goals i.e. long term capital apreciation + rental income with lesser risk, stay with projects along Shaikh Zayed Road. Here are some areas:

-Downtown Burj Dubai area.
-Business Bay (BB).
-Jumerah Lake Towers (JLT).

The areas you have mentioned are far off from the city center. No doubt one day when Dubailand develops they could come in the middle of the city but that will take many years. So if you want to get returns in the next 2 to 5 years stay close to the city. If you have the appitite to wait for your returns in 5 to 10 years you may want to invest in those areas provided you get them at a big discount from what you can get in the city.

So when you get nice payment options there is a reason for that.


----------



## Krazy

Is it normal for mortgage companies to take "ownership" of your apartment till you pay off the mortgage? Because I think that's what Barclays did with us... saskia?


----------



## saskia

^^ 

I could not believe the never-ending list of 'securities' and guarantees the bank demanded, and at some point in the process I asked them why - surely the apartment itself would be sufficient as guarantee! 

Barclays told me that they legally could not reposses or own the apartment, which apparently is why they ask for zillions of other details and guarantees, including the ownership documents (so you can't sell the apartment to anyone without their knowledge / approval). So, we are still the owners of our (!) apartment..


----------



## Krazy

^^ Why did I have to pay Emaar Dhs 5000 transfer fee then?


----------



## saskia

As far as I understand, that fee is simply to register that the apartment is now mortgaged. You're a bit unlucky - they increased the fee from 3000 to 5000 dirhams approx two weeks before you registered the mortgage. 

Highway robbery if you ask me!


----------



## Krazy

^^ yes and I also missed out on the Dhs 8000 early settlement fee that Barclays was offering... they now have changed that rule to something less favorable.


----------



## saskia

^^ 
Incredible - I thought they would become more competitive and come up with some more attractive conditions as more and more mortgage providers enter the market!!

The good early settlement fee was one of the main reasons we took the Barclays mortgage - we might want to sell the apartment in the not too distant future, and I think their fee was only 3000 dirhams (after two years) when we signed the mortgage with them...


----------



## Krazy

^^ do you have an idea of how much is the per sqft price right now for Paloma units? Last month I was in the UAE and I scanned a few property suppliments but for some reason, there dont seem to be too many MP units in the resale market out there right now... no demand? or not too many people willing to sell?


----------



## glover

there are some at better homes. check their site!


----------



## saskia

I asked Emaar when I called them today - they still have a few units in MP available - prices are approx: 

- Altessa 02 apartment - 1.77 mln AED (11th floor)
- Shemara - 02 apartment - 1.7 mln AED (27 floor)
- Paloma 01 apartment approx 1.5 mln AED
- Delphine 04 apartment approx 1.4 mln AED
- Delphine 01 apartment approx 1.47 mln AED

I don't know what the prices for these were on the launch, but I don't think they have substantially increased...


----------



## Krazy

glover said:


> there are some at better homes. check their site!


I did.. but there are very few compared to other emaar projects like Quays or PI... compared to which MP is far ahead in construction. Puzzling.


----------



## glover

there was one 1 bed listed last week for 970k in the promenade. i inquired about it and better homes called the seller who said he doesn't want to sell anymore. he wants to wait for a better price. maybe therein lies your answer


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> ^^ Why did I have to pay Emaar Dhs 5000 transfer fee then?


If you sell your apt. you will have to pay them another AED 1000 for clearing the mortgage.



> Last month I was in the UAE and I scanned a few property suppliments but for some reason, there dont seem to be too many MP units in the resale market out there right now... no demand? or not too many people willing to sell?


I have noted that too. Even real estate agents are unaware, they know the Emaar Golf Towers but not MP.......I wonder why?


----------



## rexdmx

GCC hunts for Asian assets 
By Babu Das Augustine, Banking Editor



Dubai: Asia is fast emerging as a prime destination for regional investors as the Gulf's political and business leaders enhance investments across Asia. 

As part of the petrodollar recycling frenzy, GCC states are shifting focus to investment opportunities in Asia's emerging markets, especially China, India, Pakistan, Malaysia and Indonesia. 

During the past 12 months, companies, mainly state-owned investment arms and private equity firms from the GCC, have acquired more than $50 billion in assets across the world with Asia's share accounting for less than 10 per cent. 

While the GCC's acquisition spree continues in the US and Europe, several state-owned investment companies and private equity players have quietly begun exploring opportunities in Asia. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Middle East-based strategic investors in the hospitality sector are targeting large Asian assets because of their huge growth potential and attractive valuations. 

"Asia, particularly China, has huge investment opportunities for strategic investors looking for attractive investment options," said Tim Hansing, senior vice-president of acquisitions and development at Kingdom Hotel Investments (KIH), which is listed in both Dubai and London. 

KIH, which made $1.5 billion worth of acquisitions last year, has most of its new assets in Asia.

Istithmar, the Dubai-based real estate investment company with a $7 billion portfolio, is also targeting the Asian hospitality sector. 

"Currently most of our investments are in North America and Europe, but increasingly we are looking at opportunities in Asia and Africa," said Richard Johnson, managing director of real estate at Istithmar.

GCC governments are increasingly recognising the strategic importance of investing in Asia. 

During his official visit to South Korea, His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of UAE and Ruler of Dubai, emphasised the growing interest of UAE investors in Korea and the rest of Asia. 

Parallel to Shaikh Mohammad's visit, the focus of Business Week's Middle-East Asia Leadership Forum in Dubai was on the GCC's growing interest in Asia. 

Speaking at the Forum, Nasser Saidi, chief economist at the Dubai International Financial Centre, said the ongoing structural changes in India and China, coupled with the economic liberalisation in most countries, make them a natural focus for GCC investors. 

"While Asia has the huge potential to soak up the excess liquidity available in the Middle East, the time is ripe for both regions to trade, invest and integrate resources."

State-owned Kuwait Investment Authority (KIA) is eyeing stakes in Chinese financial firms and infrastructure projects in India and Pakistan as part of a push to double its investments in Asia. KIA, with assets worth more than $150 billion, decided last year to increase the Asian share of its portfolio to 20 per cent from 10 per cent. 

Qatar's state investment company, which has a couple of hundred billion dollars in its war chest, is on the lookout for international assets including infrastructure ventures in India, strategic stakes in banks and financial institutions in China and Malaysia. 

"While the opportunities are growing, risk levels of Asian assets have come down substantially in the recent years," said Ronnie Chan, chairman of Hang-Lung Properties Hong Kong.


----------



## Tina1511

great seems to be capturing the market slowly.


----------



## rexdmx

What's driving UAE markets? 
By Ahmed A. Elewa, Staff Reporter



Gulf News: What is behind the return of liquidity?

Osmansoy: There is no secret in that, as everyone knows that the valuations of the UAE stocks became very attractive within the past six months. Accordingly, local and international investors, especially institutions, started moving in.

Gulf News: Many attribute the market rally to the flow of foreign funds. Is that true?

Osmansoy: Foreign institutional investors have a mandate to allocate funds for emerging markets, and keeping in mind that the combined gross domestic product of the GCC countries exceeds that of Australia, it was but natural that these firms target the region's equities markets.

Gulf News: How strong is the correlation between the UAE stock markets and security-related issues in the region? 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Osmansoy: Problems with Iran, Iraq or Lebanon may create an overhang if they deteriorate. However, foreign investors have seemingly discounted that factor when they invested in the region. A market collapse is not expected, as it is also unlikely that the security of the region will reach to an apocalyptic scale.

Gulf News: Will the law allowing for 30 per cent listing of family business positively affect the market?

Osmansoy: No doubt, as we are aware of several families who are keen to tap into such financial instrument. Nevertheless, more flexibility in this law can yield better results, as the condition of running the business throughout two family generations to qualify for family business, also dual business sponsors must be taken into account given that many families have joined hands with foreign counterparts.

Gulf News: With the summer approaching, do you expect the markets to slow down?

Osmansoy: The irony is that substantial market movements in the past were initiated during summer, accordingly such scenario cannot be ruled out. What we anticipate is a long-term incremental appreciation of share prices.


----------



## IISinbadII

rexdmx said:


> Gulf News: Will the law allowing for 30 per cent listing of family business positively affect the market?
> 
> Osmansoy: No doubt, as we are aware of several families who are keen to tap into such financial instrument. Nevertheless, more flexibility in this law can yield better results, as the condition of running the business throughout two family generations to qualify for family business, also dual business sponsors must be taken into account given that many families have joined hands with foreign counterparts..


^^ what law is this?


----------



## sameerl

Earlier, ESCA was mandating that 51% of family business shares would need to be offered in order for an IPO to take place. This has been revised down to 30%, thereby making the listing process easier for domestic family business houses. 

Thats my understanding


----------



## Imre

one of the last tower in the Marina:

KPM Tower

location: near Sky View and TGR


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Villa is likely to be a good investment. I like Springs/Meadows because of their proximity to shopping malls, schools, SZR, etc. But they have a boxy look. Also consider Lakes and Arabian Ranches. A few months back Emaar was offering townhouses. Check how much they are in the re-sale market. 

(BTW, this is first time I have seen a serious post by you!!!!!!?????)


----------



## mission

Can i set up a uae bank account from the uk?

If not i am in Dubai next week can anyone tell me what i need to take to ensure its not a wasted trip


----------



## Krazy

I've noticed quite a few ppl are interested in setting up accounts in the UAE. 

My question is , why? what are the benefits of doing so? 

If I rent my apartment out in Dubai, can I have the rental money directly deposited to my account in the UAE? If yes, do banks in UAE offer good online banking services? The reason I ask that is, if I'm sitting here in the states, is it possible for me to make money transfers to and fro my UAE account just by going online?


----------



## mission

Hi Krazy 

The main reason why people want to set UAE bank accounts is to keep there rental income from Mr Gordon Brown.

But yes you can make online tranactions on the net with a uae bank accounts,


----------



## eudora

Krazy said:


>


Krazy

Do you know if this type of information is available for sales prices - or is is the Dubai market too young?

thks


----------



## Krazy

^^ the only sales prices u can get are the ones on real estate agents property listings


----------



## Naz UK

Sarcasm always contains a serious undertone. So it could be argued my posts are very serious. You just have to read between the lines. 

Hmmm..thanks for the tips guys. My main issue, besides location, is privacy. The villa needs to be a good distance from it's neighbours. The walls need to be high enough.

I haven't really got the time to drive around looking for hours on end, so was wondering if anyone knows of any particular villas or types of villas that meet my requirements.


----------



## mackie1964

mission said:


> Can i set up a uae bank account from the uk?
> 
> If not i am in Dubai next week can anyone tell me what i need to take to ensure its not a wasted trip


I opened one with HSBC and they only took a copy of the passport, other banks I believe require the last 6 months bank statements (originals). Remember that you can only open a saving account. Good luck.


----------



## plotman

Krazy said:


> I've noticed quite a few ppl are interested in setting up accounts in the UAE.
> 
> My question is , why? what are the benefits of doing so?
> 
> If I rent my apartment out in Dubai, can I have the rental money directly deposited to my account in the UAE? If yes, do banks in UAE offer good online banking services? The reason I ask that is, if I'm sitting here in the states, is it possible for me to make money transfers to and fro my UAE account just by going online?


Try Citibank One of the best online US banks, big worldwide,can hold 4 currencies in one account,you will have to open an account in US first,then international transfers online are free.


----------



## Naz UK

Er, you seem to forget the rather important residency visa that is required, assuming it is a current account thats needed by Mission.


----------



## plotman

UAE current account agreed, but you can transfer on line from savings account.


----------



## mission

I would prefer a savings account!

So passport it is then Cheers Mackie


----------



## Plet

Morrismarina said:


> Well the service charges quoted above unless I'm wrong, are for the first year only - may have been lower to tempt purchasers into the development - there's every chance they will be higher in the future. It all depends on what the maintance costs actually are in future years. With BC accounts have to be produced detailing the expenditure for the year and then a new rate could be set for the comming year. Could be that the service charge comes down or, of course may increase. But this will be the same with all developments in the Marina.


I was told that normally the service charge is lower the first 3 years when the building is new, and not so much repair is needed. 
Then after 3 years the service charge will normally go up.


----------



## mackie1964

True Blue said:


> ^^ It's the equivalent of UK council tax. Covers streetlighting, cleaning, waste disposal, roads and landscaping maintenance, police,fire etc,etc. I think you can get the charge off Emaars website. Last time I saw it, it was an odd figure like 10.85AED/ft


Are you sure? [email protected] DiamondII does not know about it and he has been living there for 6 Months!
Can you list all other charges that you are aware of?
Has this been discussed elsewhere on this forum? Can you let me know where?

@ Morris

Are you sure the master developer would charge for Fire Service? Rubbish removal is already included in the maintenance charge (I think).


Are you both sure that you are not confusing the Emaar own properties services charge with this?


----------



## AITU

Morrismarina said:


> Well the service charges quoted above by True Blue and Mackie, unless I'm wrong, are for the first year only - may have been lower to tempt purchasers into the development - there's every chance they will be higher in the future. It all depends on what the maintance costs actually are in future years. With BC accounts have to be produced detailing the expenditure for the year and then a new rate could be set for the comming year. Could be that the service charge comes down or, of course may increase. But this will be the same with all developments in the Marina.
> 
> Regarding the Emaar service charge did you think you'd get all these services ie. rubbish removal, fire service etc all for free. It's up to you to do your homework and find out what these costs are. No where in the world I know of are these services for free. If you buy in the UK surely you ask what the Council tax will be ? It's not up to DS to tell you, they're an estate agent selling you a property not holding you by the hand making investment decisons for you.


Well if this is the case then it makes JBR service charges look like good value for money at DHS 9.5 sq/ft as JBR does not fit under the Emaar / Marina coverage...bearing in mind JBR is less than 50 meters away from Bay Central


----------



## lovedubai

Mission

Don't assume you can keep your money from Gordon Brown. Every payment transfer to / from the UK can easily be traced these days. With the clampdown you could risk huge fines for tax evasion if and when you're caught - especially if it's a few years down the line.


----------



## saskia

^^ 
But if you use the rental income for mortgage payments, Gordon will never need to find out... :cheers:


----------



## lovedubai

Why risk it? Mortgage interest payments and loads of other expenses are offset against your tax bill anyway. With proper accounting, tax is not that onerous, but it is if you have to find say 5 years' worth plus 100% interest plus fines, that's one hell of a lot of money.


----------



## True Blue

I have been looking for the info on the Marina Community charge and can't find it now. I seem to remember that it was an AME info article announcing that Emaar had decided on the level of charging to be levied in the Dubai Marina community. Best people to ask are the current residents as they will know for sure. :dunno:

Had a look at The Palm Jum thread as I was sure they were mentioning the community charge on their thread and there certainly is a mention of a Master Community charge.

Fingers crossed it's not required as I have it in my budget for this year, more money for beer!:cheers:


----------



## mackie1964

*To Furnish or Not to Furnish, that is the question!*

If you are renting out apartments in the Marina Area, is there any value in furnishing the apartments? How much of a difference that it makes?

Working on an example apartment of 1000sqft so every body can factor back from this, How much per year does it cost the owner for the up keep of an apartment, Can some body who has already done it work through this for us.


----------



## agod

Hi Mackie

I always look at that from a different angle, not how much it costs, but who am I wanting to rent it to, if you are looking for top end money, and want it rented all the time, you do it luxuriously, with a bit of wow factor somewhere thrown in and you should never have voids, never take the view, "its only renters" so it doesn't matter, it is more likely to get trashed if you do that than if you put some decent stuff in it, and as the cost of furniture is pretty cheap there I would spend a bit more on it.

On the banking side, I have a TSB account in this country, I rang TSB in Dubai, and asked if I could just move the account over, no she said you have to be resident, Ah I said but I will be as I want to live there, still not good enough, we are a UK bank and all transactions are reported back to the UK, but all I wanted to do was pay in my rent cheques and pay some bills, still no, she recommended a local bank like Mashreek (spelling).

I have USA accounts as well, and I can wire in but not out, you have to do that in person, even online you can pay local bills Etc, but not internationally, the other way you can do it is by Paypal, set yourself up as a Verified trader, and nominate accounts and you can do it that way, the charges are horrendous though, you have also now got (since 9-11) anti-money laundering laws in place (the patriot act) so moving money is more difficult, I do like the idea of Citi Bank where you can do that by having all your multi currecy accounts in one. I was told no residency visa no bank account.

AL


----------



## IISinbadII

mackie1964 said:


> If you are renting out apartments in the Marina Area, is there any value in furnishing the apartments? How much of a difference that it makes?.


For *long-term rentals* furnishing is optional.

Pros: 
-Your apt. will have an edge over others.
-You will probably get appx. AED 5,000 - 10,000 extra in rent.

Cons:
-Cost you from AED 25,000 to 50,000 for a 1 BR. _(I have heard as low as 10k(?) and as high as 75k. Naturally if your apt. did not come with kitchen appliances it would cost you more))_
-Tanents have their likes & dislikes about furniture. Some may be turned away by your choice of style/colors.

Tips:
You can get an interior decorator who could do it for you. They charge appx. 10% of the purchases (furniture, etc) as their fees. OR you could go to a store like Home Center (Mall of Emirates) and they have models that you could choose from. Whatever you do, dont do it yourself. Avoid black furniture (some people hate it). Make sure its sold wood so it lasts long. Avoid glass (table tops, etc) so it doesnt break. 

Again this is for long-term rentals. Short-term rentals (holiday lets) is a different story.



> Working on an example apartment of 1000sqft so every body can factor back from this, How much per year does it cost the owner for the up keep of an apartment, Can some body who has already done it work through this for us


Sorry cant help here.


----------



## Imre

Home Center (Mall of Emirates) gives 25 % discount now for all items.
When starts the DSS (Dubai Summer Surprises , June 21 - August 31) ,possible more discount everywhere, last year they gave 25-90 % discount.
This is the best time for buying furniture , electronics etc...


----------



## IISinbadII

Boom promotion now in the hands of secondary property developers

http://www.ameinfo.com/122200.html


----------



## Wannaberich

Apparantly this has already sold out.Guess its a combination of the area plus the financing thats made the difference


----------



## MaaaD

I am looking to buy a 1 bed in "The Jewels" project in the Marina for me to move in to, how much should i be expecting to pay for it in the secondary market ?


----------



## mission

dont furnish your apartment 90% of dubai long term rentals are unfurnished.

It will not increase rantal value by much if you did this.


----------



## Krazy

Guys, I contacted one rental service regarding renting out my Paloma unit and this is the quick estimate I got from their General Manager based in Holland:




> Hello Samir,
> 
> 
> 
> I did a quick check with other properties we have for rent in that area. I think we can make an income of *$160 average a night*. With an occupation rate of 70% that will be $40.900,00 a year. We now do almost 90% occupation, so let say we get 85%, then it will be around *$49.600,00 a year*. Ofcourse there are various costs, I can make an open calculation for you, so you can see the costs. This is now in Dutch, so I’ll translate it for you and send it to your email address.
> 
> 
> 
> (above income is the income minus our management fee of 20%)


----------



## yecabel

Krazy said:


> Guys, I contacted one rental service regarding renting out my Paloma unit and this is the quick estimate I got from their General Manager based in Holland:


krazy,
how big is your unit?
thanks.


----------



## Krazy

^^ approx 892 sq ft


----------



## Naz UK

yecabel said:


> krazy,
> how big is your unit?
> thanks.


A girl once came up to me in a bar and asked me the very same question.

I ignored her and looked the other way.


----------



## mackie1964

@ Alan, Sinbad, Imre & Mission.......Many thanks.

@ Krazy; WOW 70% to 85% Occupancy level, Short term sounds interesting! :banana:


----------



## yecabel

Krazy said:


> ^^ approx 892 sq ft


sounds like a great return. well done!


----------



## mission

I would advise people to rent there apartments out long term for the next couple of years to maximise your income while you can.

When more units come onto the market there is going to be more competion!!!



Have you sold your flat in the promendade


----------



## Krazy

^^ no what makes you think I did?


----------



## mission

Dont know just curious

I thought you wwere going to sell it


----------



## Morrismarina

mission said:


> I would advise people to rent there apartments out long term for the next couple of years to maximise your income while you can.
> 
> When more units come onto the market there is going to be more competion!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Have you sold your flat in the promendade



And with more people comming to live in Dubai there is going to be more demand.:banana:


----------



## Krazy

^^ no one can really predict that to be honest... there will definitely be an oversupply of residential apartments in a year or two... In my opinion, the only safe assumption at the moment is healthy returns from short term renting because of the shortage of hotel space in Dubai for at least 3 more years.


----------



## agod

I have a couple of properties in Florida, they are 10 minutes from disney, I rent them on a short term basis, from a couple of days to 3 weeks, the work involved in keeping them rented is huge, they are listed on 25 rental sites, as well and you have to markrt them yourself, answer emails and enquires all the time to get them filled up, do not beleive anyone who can promise you 70/85% occupancy in Dubai, which is an unknown market, 70 million people a year go through Central Florida, and most stay on Disney Property, the majority of owners struggle to get 20 weeks per year booked, most of them listen to promises by Management Companies that they can fill them, the homes as well get hammered with the amount of traffic that goes through, new carpets, new towels and linens, complete paint every year, cleaning and bed changing, laundry, mechanical breakdowns, renters always dissatified, and I have a lovely home, they always looking for way to get compensation, and costs are horrendous, short term rental is bad news, but why did I do it, because the Location ensured that the rental I obtained is high, and everyone want's to go to Disney all the year round, they have also trebled in value in 3 years, I think when Dubailand comes on stream then you might get some, but you have the best hotels, and service in the world there, you might win if you own a large villa, and let it to 3 or 4 families.

I also have long term rental's, no problem, sign up for 6 month's minimum, and stay for a few year's, half furnished, so they put there own stuff in and look after the place.

But what I have wanted to get into for years is Commercial, so I have bought at Cambridge Business Centre, at Dubai Silicon Oasis, great rental, sign up for 5 to 10 years, fitt the place out themselves, and minmal cost and good returns, should also appreciate, and I can sit on my Terrace, smoking my Cigars.

Alan


----------



## IISinbadII

agod said:


> I have a couple of properties in Florida, they are 10 minutes from disney, I rent them on a short term basis, from a couple of days to 3 weeks, the work involved in keeping them rented is huge, they are listed on 25 rental sites, as well and you have to markrt them yourself, answer emails and enquires all the time to get them filled up, do not beleive anyone who can promise you 70/85% occupancy in Dubai, which is an unknown market, 70 million people a year go through Central Florida, and most stay on Disney Property, the majority of owners struggle to get 20 weeks per year booked, most of them listen to promises by Management Companies that they can fill them, the homes as well get hammered with the amount of traffic that goes through, new carpets, new towels and linens, complete paint every year, cleaning and bed changing, laundry, mechanical breakdowns, renters always dissatified, and I have a lovely home, they always looking for way to get compensation, and costs are horrendous, short term rental is bad news, but why did I do it, because the Location ensured that the rental I obtained is high, and everyone want's to go to Disney all the year round, they have also trebled in value in 3 years, I think when Dubailand comes on stream then you might get some, but you have the best hotels, and service in the world there,


The picture you have painted of Orlando is what could happen to Dubai in 5 to 10 years. For now there is shortage of hotels and they are very expensive. I am sure you could get a decent hotel room for $ 100 in Orlando, but not in Dubai. 



> you might win if you own a large villa, and let it to 3 or 4 families.


Villas in Dubai are very expensive. Also many investors dont live in Dubai so they can't run the place themselves.



> I also have long term rental's, no problem, sign up for 6 month's minimum, and stay for a few year's, half furnished, so they put there own stuff in and look after the place.


I like it.



> But what I have wanted to get into for years is Commercial, so I have bought at Cambridge Business Centre, at Dubai Silicon Oasis, great rental, sign up for 5 to 10 years, fitt the place out themselves, and minmal cost and good returns, should also appreciate, and I can sit on my Terrace, smoking my Cigars.


Again thats good. If you sign up for 5 to 10 years will they increase the rent every few years?


----------



## Krazy

^^ I was thinking the same.. is it based on who is living in the apartment or who owns the apartment? :nuts:


----------



## mission

Question 

is the reduced working hours 
June,July,August or July,August,September
Also is it only working outisde not permitted so workers can still carry on working on interiors


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## Morrismarina

There was a TV report a few weeks ago in the UK, think it was on Sky News, saying that travel agents in the UK were suffering an ever increasing downturn in business due to people booking their own tailor-made holidays via the interent. I bet a good proportion are booking into apartments given that they're much better value.


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## Naz UK

^^ It's only a matter of time. The GCC has some of the lowest internet usage figures in the world, and booking holidays online, let alone using holiday rental apartments, is still a relatively new concept here. That's why I keep on suggesting that the holiday rental market will boom in the coming years, regardless of what happens with the increase in the number of hotel rooms and residential apartments.


----------



## glover

^^ factoid, the middle east has one of the lowest internet penetration rates in the world, around 8-10%, but the GCC countries have the highest rates in the mideast, around 25-30%.


----------



## jeetha

My last vacation in Dubai was in a serviced apartment. We loved it and will never stay in a boxed Hotel room again.


----------



## agod

I am not sure these short term rentals are good value, good for us owners, but I am not convinced they are occupied for the percentage of the time they say they are, but at this moment, yes, they could be as it is a shortage of them at the moment, once more come on stream the price will drop,
They seem extremely dear for what they are, I would rent an apartment if I was in a place that had other attractions, hire a car, and get out during the day, and back at night, not sure Dubai fits that bill at the moment, in the weekend papers Airline Network normally have a deal, 3 nights at the Jumeriah Beach Hotel, Breakfast, Transfers, flights, for about £490. extra nights for £70.

Alan


----------



## Naz UK

Broadband internet penetration is extremely low in the Arab world (less than 5%), unless you're counting dial-up internet into the figures. Have you ever personally used dial-up internet in the Middle East, my friend? Its quicker to drive down to your mates house and tell him what you want to say to him to his face, than sending an email.


----------



## glover

if you are only referring to broadband, then you are right! but the gulf countries still have the highest penetration rates in the region in broadband too. and it's above 10% for sure!

internet usage by definition includes all internet subscribers, be it dial-up or broadband!

256k broadband is growing rapidly in the Gulf due to its low cost! i would imagine it will do the same in the rest of the region pretty soon!


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## Naz UK

Bahrain has the highest penetration of broadband use, and its around 5%.


----------



## glover

^^ my guess is that your numbers are outdated. in the last couple of years, dial-up dosent cut t anymore if you are in the gulf, not only because of speed, but also because the service ties up the line. it doesn't make sense anymore to saty on a dial-up, because you pay just a little more and get 256k and another phone line so to speak. most who have internet have upgraded to broadband!


----------



## Imre

mission said:


> Question
> 
> is the reduced working hours
> June,July,August or July,August,September
> Also is it only working outisde not permitted so workers can still carry on working on interiors


June , July, August , mid of Sept , between 12-16 no works , after 16 not so much works...

around 25th of September coming the Ramadan , 30 days , everything slow


----------



## Naz UK

glover said:


> ^^ my guess is that your numbers are outdated. in the last couple of years, dial-up dosent cut t anymore if you are in the gulf, not only because of speed, but also because the service ties up the line. it doesn't make sense anymore to saty on a dial-up, because you pay just a little more and get 256k and another phone line so to speak. most who have internet have upgraded to broadband!


My numbers are very "in date" actually, from a recent world study. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/inde...-in-arab-world-still-lagging-behind&Itemid=73


----------



## Krazy

moving from broadband usage back to Dubai real estate...

I just got an email from another Emaar rep saying that in addition to the developer's service fee, there indeed will be a community fee that will be payabel to Dubai Municipality. hno:


----------



## Suj-D

Morrismarina said:


> So if you rent the property out long term the tenant pays the fee based on the annual rent and therefore the price paid for the property is irrelevant ? So anyone on the DS long term payment plan would "presumably" not be affected by the inflated purchase price if you rent your property out long term ?


So this more or less confuses the hell out of us if we decide on short term lets. As an owner one could end up paying the 0.5% of the LPP purchase price even if you are not living there and short term lets may not be fully booked?
I guess you have to pass on the cost!


----------



## glover

Naz UK said:


> My numbers are very "in date" actually, from a recent world study.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/inde...-in-arab-world-still-lagging-behind&Itemid=73


it looks like that study's numbers are per person, not per household, which gives a better picture of the penetration. You only need one broadband subscription for the whole famliy. Read on:

"Citing from analyst company Point Topic’s published figures that confirm that the number of broadband subscribers in Middle East and Africa grew by 38% in 2006, while the number of those subscribers using DSL access technology grew by 81.9% to 4.3million.

Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Lebanon have the highest broadband penetration, with almost half the households in Qatar connected to the Internet via broadband, 28.87% in the United Arab Emirates and 22.5% in Lebanon.

Turkey has the most DSL subscribers in the region and almost doubled the number in 2006 to 2.9 million.

Tunisia, Egypt and Qatar all increased the number of subscribers in their respective countries by over 100%, while in the United Arab Emirates, DSL subscribers grew by 63.45% to 207,080."

http://mybroadband.co.za/nephp/?m=show&id=6375

btw, the US's broadband penetration per household is 40%.


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> moving from broadband usage back to Dubai real estate...
> 
> I just got an email from another Emaar rep saying that in addition to the developer's service fee, there indeed will be a community fee that will be payabel to Dubai Municipality. hno:


What is developer's service fee and how frequently is it payable. Is is same as the maintenence fee. And what on earth is this community (Municipality) fee and what do you get in return? How much is it and again how many times does one pay this per year. Is it just for Marina or all Dubai. 

We need some answers Krazy!


----------



## mission

Cheers Imre


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## IISinbadII

Guys, who cares how many people in UAE have broadband, or for that matter a computer. You should ask what % of people in EU have internet and if they are booking short-term on the net, :bash:


----------



## Grubbman

Are you really getting upset at .5% cost over a year?? At £150K thats £750 per year...Try paying tax on your rental income like in other countries and then you will realise its not all bad.......


----------



## Krazy

IISinbadII said:


> What is developer's service fee and how frequently is it payable. Is is same as the maintenence fee. And what on earth is this community (Municipality) fee and what do you get in return? How much is it and again how many times does one pay this per year. Is it just for Marina or all Dubai.
> 
> We need some answers Krazy!



From what I understand, there is an annual maintenance fee payable to developer... in most cases it's under Dhs 10/sq ft.. for Marina Promanede it will be Dhs 13/sq ft at least for the first year.

In addition to this there will be a community fee payable to Dubai Municipality (for maintenance of marina, waters, lights, promenades, streets etc) - like True Blue posted in the BC thread - it will be 0.5% of your purchase price divided by 12 months - paid monthly with your utilities bill. I think this fee will be applicable for any master development... best option would be to ask current owners of apartments/villas in Greens and Springs.


----------



## jeetha

Suj-D said:


> As an owner one could end up paying the 0.5% of the LPP purchase price even if you are not living there and short term lets may not be fully booked?


Do Hotels also have to pay 0.5%?

0.5% is a lot of money. I'm sure there is mistake somewhere.

Thought this is covered by the service charge, and it should be.


----------



## jeetha

Grubbman said:


> At £150K thats £750 per year


My head....I was putting "0" behind £750 = £7500

I CAN live with that. 

Cheers


----------



## glover

here is what i found about the housing fee on DEWA's site.

"DM Housing Fees

Housing fees is included in DEWA bills as per the instruction of Dubai Municipality. It is calculated as 5% of the yearly rental charges. For any queries, clarifications and complaints please call Dubai Municipality Housing Fees Toll free number 800900."

http://www.dewa.gov.ae/consumers/consguide/housingFee.asp


----------



## Krazy

So can someone call that number and ask them this...

If we own an apartment and rent it out long term, who pays this housing fee - the owner or the tenant?


----------



## glover

^^ they probably don't have an answer. all they would care about is the bill getting paid. dewa charges are billed under both the renter and owner's name. it will make more sense that the occupant would pay it, and that's what the practice seems to be right now!!


----------



## Krazy

Morrismarina said:


> Many people renting will have noticed that the ‘Housing Fees’ column on their DEWA bill is empty. This does not mean you don’t have to pay it. A tenant is beholden to take their rental contract down to a DEWA office and register the amount they pay rent. DEWA will then charge 5 percent of that amount.


Where was this article taken from? Looks to me like if you dont register with DEWA, you dont have to pay a dime. But then again in another article, DEWA threatens to impose fines on people who do this. But really, how strictly is it enforced? How can we expect our tenants to be sincere residents and register with DEWA?


----------



## Grubbman

I understood it to be one set of rules for tenants ie they pay 5% on top of the dewa bills and if the owner is residing in thier apartment themselves then the .5% per year added onto the bill each month comes into play. For short term rentals obviously the owner is responsible for this so the latter scenario would apply. Someone please correct me if this is not the case.


----------



## IISinbadII

So if you get your apt. and rent it out long-term straightaway, do you have to register with DEWA, internet provider and phone company?...... Or does the tanent does it since he/she would be living, useing utilities and paying the bills.


----------



## glover

post this question in the JBR thread. some of the owners there just went through something like that!


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> From what I understand, there is an annual maintenance fee payable to developer... in most cases it's under Dhs 10/sq ft.. for Marina Promanede it will be Dhs 13/sq ft at least for the first year.
> 
> In addition to this there will be a community fee payable to Dubai Municipality (for maintenance of marina, waters, lights, promenades, streets etc) - like True Blue posted in the BC thread - it will be 0.5% of your purchase price divided by 12 months - paid monthly with your utilities bill. I think this fee will be applicable for any master development... best option would be to ask current owners of apartments/villas in Greens and Springs.


Maintenance fee + Community fee + Property Registration fee.

Dont forget the *Property Registration fee *that you will pay to the Govt. department to register the property in your name. How much is that (1.5%????) and when will you pay it.


----------



## Grubbman

Not too sure about how it works as am just learning about these things myself but it would make sense that the tenant has to register that he is renting the flat so they can enforce the extra allocation onto the bills and put them in the tenants name.


----------



## Grubbman

you pay the 1% or 1.5% of the purchase cost at the land department when you register the property in your name


----------



## IISinbadII

Grubbman said:


> you pay the 1% or 1.5% of the purchase cost at the land department when you register the property in your name


When do you register? I understand that this is a new thing so do they have dates set for different developments, or can you go anytime after you get the keys and register. What if you dont register. I mean is it a must or is it something you dont have to do. Thanks.


----------



## glover

IISinbadII said:


> So if you get your apt. and rent it out long-term straightaway, do you have to register with DEWA, internet provider and phone company?...... Or does the tanent does it since he/she would be living, useing utilities and paying the bills.


to turn on these services, the tenant would need a lease from you. so in the end, your name will be in their systems someway or another!


----------



## mission

isnt it 0.75% now not 1.5 i think it has changed


----------



## IISinbadII

glover said:


> to turn on these services, the tenant would need a lease from you. so in the end, your name will be in their systems someway or another!


Yes, but if you register, you will have to pay the registration fees, deposit money, etc. If you have no plan to stay in the unit, why get the electric, phone and internet turned on?

BTW, while we are at it, I have heard that in Emaar develpments AC is free i.e. cooling is included in the maintenence fee? Is that true, if so is it for some developments or all.


----------



## glover

^^ that's bull. before i bought my place, an emmar rep told me the same over the phone. but guess what, my power bill was almost down by by 40% in the "winter" when the AC was off!


----------



## Masood

I've purchased 2 studios in this Desert Rose project by Desert Home. :banana: Anybody else out there whose purchased . . . ?


----------



## carpetking

glover said:


> ^^ that's bull. before i bought my place, an emmar rep told me the same over the phone. but guess what, my power bill was almost down by by 40% in the "winter" when the AC was off!



but you have a central aircon,no chance to switch off hno:


----------



## Morrismarina

glover said:


> ^^ was told by Emaar it's 1.5% of the selling price just a week ago. Here is the fact sheet they gave me!


Sounds like Emaar are trying to scam an additional 0.5% from you. Interesting that you pay the fee directly to them rather than you forwarding a cheque to them made out to the Land Registry !!
The fee was previously 1.5% and was reduced to 1% about 12 months ago. I would guess that they're relying on some people being unware of the fee reduction. I'd take this matter up with Emaar if I were you.
They're obviously out to fleece people by stipulating that if you sell the property on, you'll have to obtain a No Objection Letter from them at a cost of AED 5,000. And they can have a say in who you sell your property to - outrageous !!


----------



## glover

^^ thanks for alerting me to that. don't think the no objection letter is designed to give power to developers to have a say on who is buying the property; rather, it's to ensure that you don't owe the developer any money (maintenance fee and such). Hope the new condominium law (called Strata Law here), which i hear is about to be released, will change that! but that 5k fee is a rip off to say the least


----------



## Doctor_UK

guys a quick question...

do the developers always include 'the balcony area' in the area/sqft they tell us? or are there any exceptions?


----------



## True Blue

Doctor_UK said:


> guys a quick question...
> 
> do the developers always include 'the balcony area' in the area/sqft they tell us? or are there any exceptions?


A few years back each developer had a different way of defining areas. Due to the property registration process, everyone now uses gross or plot size. This is the entire area occupied by the structure including walls or half the wall if it's a party wall. As the balcony is part of the structure it is included although some developers detail them seperately for clarity.


----------



## Krazy

anyone stacking up on apple stocks? 

http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/070614/38349_id.html?.v=1


----------



## Plet

Morrismarina said:


> Sounds like Emaar are trying to scam an additional 0.5% from you. Interesting that you pay the fee directly to them rather than you forwarding a cheque to them made out to the Land Registry !!
> The fee was previously 1.5% and was reduced to 1% about 12 months ago.!!


Sorry if I sound stupid.... :? Is this something we all have to pay when we take over our apartments?


----------



## Doctor_UK

thanks for the info true blue... much appreciated


----------



## HarryKane

Plet said:


> Sorry if I sound stupid.... :? Is this something we all have to pay when we take over our apartments?


Not when you take over, but when you register it with the Land Department.

BTW, when I asked Emaar if I could register my property, they told me "no", they would do it. When I asked when, they said when they get around to it, which might take months, or even years. So, in the meantime, I guess I'm in limbo land.


----------



## IISinbadII

*Off-plan sales registration a welcome initiative*

http://www.ameinfo.com/123467.html


----------



## Masood

Hi All,

I have an apartment in Jumeirah Village South which I am selling on to another buyer. The property itself has yet to be started, although I've been informed that shoring works has started. Can anyone inform me of the process of selling the property on to the buyer ? What paperwork may be required ? Do I need to go to the master developer (Limitless) or can my developer do all the paperwork for us ? Do we need to be present in Dubai or can it all be done from abroad ? What sort of fees are involved (I hear it's 2% transfer fee and that covers everything)?

Please advise . . . 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## IISinbadII

Buying and Selling in the secondary (resale) market could be easy or difficult. To give you a general idea once the buyer agrees to purchase he/she will give you a deposit which could be as low as a few thousand to 10% of the value. Both the buyer and seller signs an MOU. A date is fixed by which both of you agree to complete the deal. Both of you present in front of the developer, show the MOU, clear all dues, receive the payment and pay the developer the transfer fee. Papers are signed and a week or two is given after which the buyer receives the contract from the developer. 

If a bank is involved, buyer or seller is abroad, the buyer is unable to arrange funds on time, etc things get complicated and time consuming.

Regarding if it could be done from abroad, check with your developer. You will probably need a lawyer to represent you and a power of attorney.


----------



## Plet

HarryKane said:


> Not when you take over, but when you register it with the Land Department.
> .


Do I not register it _when_ I take it over?

And here in Denmark I have to pay 1% tax on my Dubai apartment EVERY year!!!:bash:


----------



## HarryKane

Plet said:


> Do I not register it _when_ I take it over?


In theory, yes, for comfort of mind, more than anything else, at the moment. I have never registered any of my properties before. Who's the developer of your property?



Plet said:


> And here in Denmark I have to pay 1% tax on my Dubai apartment EVERY year!!!


In Denmark, you must declare your overseas properties? I guess so, otherwise, how would they know?


----------



## rexdmx

i had apple stocks for a while now...:lol: 
lets see what happens when the iphone comes out...
around $120.5 per share now.. down from $ 121 a while agohno: 
well i am long term anyway...:lol: 
plus it is not my real money...




Krazy said:


> anyone stacking up on apple stocks?
> 
> http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/070614/38349_id.html?.v=1


----------



## rexdmx

sinbad and sameerl ; check this out. doesn';t it remind you of the excessive credit handed in america decades ago?...

Published: 17/06/2007 12:00 AM (UAE)

Debt issues in Gulf set to soar 
By Babu Das Augustine, Banking Editor



Dubai: Seeking funds for a slew of mega projects and international acquisitions, Gulf-based companies, banks and semi-government establishments are all raising funds through regional and international debt issues.

During the past six months alone, debt issues from the region exceeded $17 billion - eclipsing the amount of money raised during the height of the equity boom in 2005.

"There is a growing market for debt financing opportunities in the Gulf region," said Jan Willem Plantagie, managing director of infrastructure finance at Standard & Poors. 

Plantagie sees demand growing for corporate debt from the region, but said government-backed projects are likely to get higher ratings and better pricing.

Regional firms are resorting to both conventional and Islamic debt issues to meet their financing needs. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Last week, Deutsche Bank said the global sukuk (Islamic bonds) sales could more than double to $50 billion this year, up from $20 billion last year. 

While Islamic debt is becoming increasingly popular, trends in corporate issues and medium term note programmes (MTN) by regional banks suggest that the total leverage, including the conventional debt, generated from the region could be close to $100 billion this year.

Gaining importance

Although UAE banks lead the MTN issuers, few Qatar-based banks such as Commercial Bank and Doha Bank are already in the MTN market, more Saudi and Baharain-based banks are expected to take the MTN route to raise long-term funds.

Gulf companies sold equities worth $15 billion and $11 billion respectively in 2005 and 2006. 

During the first six months of this year, Gulf firms announced Islamic debt issues worth more than $10 billion.

"We are expecting $10 billion of sukuk issues to come to market by July 15," Geert Bossuyt, head of Middle East structuring, told media recently. 

With regional equity markets remaining sluggish, the IPO and rights issue routes to raising funds are not attractive anymore - many mega projects are looking at debt markets.

On the corporate side, international acquisitions by regional firms has also increased the demand for debt financing. 

Firms such as DP World, Dubai International Capital and Saudi Arabian Basic Industries (Sabic) have been using debt for financing acquisitions or refinancing existing debt.

DP World is issuing $5 billion MTN notes through DP World Sukuk Ltd, a Cayman Island registered special purpose vehicle, and issue US dollar denominated sukuk trust certificates. 

The money raised through the combined MTN and trust certificates will be used to partially refinance its existing debt. 

Given their very comfortable fiscal positions, government borrowings are unusual in the GCC. Although governments themselves are not likely to go to the market in the near future, a large number of debt issues from government backed companies are already in the pipeline.


----------



## canada2uae

what happen if the buyer go for a long term payment plan, would he be able to recieve the permanent residence upon building completion or upon he finish all the paymnets (say 15 years)


----------



## IISinbadII

*Emaar warns against short-term rentals *

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Housing_and_Property/10133225.html


----------



## Krazy

^^ is this applicable to only communities like Meadows or also individual Emaar towers like MP or BD Residences?


----------



## IISinbadII

*Emaar warns on lettings*

http://www.ameinfo.com/123781.html


----------



## rexdmx

Published: 18/06/2007 12:00 AM (UAE)

New realty firm to unlock value 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter



Dubai: The formation of a body to manage properties owned by the Dubai Government will enable more effective use of the government's sizeable land bank, say real estate analysts.

The government announced on Saturday that a new body, the Dubai Real Estate Corp (DREC), will operate on a commercial basis, owning all land and property registered with the Dubai Government and signing property deals on behalf of the emirate. 

Analysts say the move brings Dubai more in line with western governmental practices, where real estate assets such as municipal buildings, economic departments and industrial sites are often managed by a professional body on the government's behalf. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


They speculate that the new body will give the government an accurate database of its land assets. The government is currently sitting on 25-30 per cent of all commercial property in Dubai, according to an industry estimate.

"This should enable the government to first determine the exact value of it landbank. This knowledge will allow it to decide what to do with what it holds and how to effectively manage it," said Nicholas Maclean, managing director of property services firm CB Richard Ellis (CBRE) Middle East. 

"If government property has a reputation for being properly managed, this will set a standard which could have an impact on the private sector - it's a very positive step." 

According to Saturday's announcement, the newly-formed entity will carry out all real estate-related activities, including construction and investment services and the use of lands and commercial and industrial properties. It will also provide leasing, marketing and management of buildings and commercial properties. 

Analysts say creation of the entity could lead to more effective maintenance and facilities management of buildings, as well as free up unwanted assets for private commercial or retail use and encourage overseas investment into public sector real estate.

Tom O'Grady, partner at DLA Piper Middle East, speculated that the new body would seek joint venture partnerships with private firms, potentially using sites for mixed-use purposes that would raise capital for government use. "They could release property that's been locked up in government use for commercial purposes. The market should react positively to this." 

O'Grady also predicted that the move is a prelude to full outsourcing of the government's land bank management.

On guard: Corporation appoints chief executive 

Hesham Abdullah Al Qasem has been appointed chief executive of the newly-established Dubai Real Estate Corp (DREC).

The chief executive's duties include general supervision of the corporation's activities and drawing up and implementing its strategic policies. He will also make suggestions on new programmes and projects and invest funds in projects that fall under its general policies.

- WAM


----------



## Krazy

two of you stop it


----------



## Ali_Syed

sorry if this has been asked before. but this thread has 150 pages so is hard to track all the conversation!

how is canal residence west in sports city for investment? i have bought a studio and 1 bed apartment in there. in mind of selling the studio next year. the 1 bed cost AED 737K for off-plan of course, which seemed high already to the standards of DM where you can get 1 bed for slightly more than this which is completed too. anyhow, i guess the canal residence is a bit of a exclusive spot to live on?

thanks


----------



## amplesou

*canal residences west*

i believe canal residence will start constuction about end of july!
here are some pictures of construction around the canal area taken last week ! shs how do i get these pictures on here !!!:bash: 
if i can,t upload these latest images if you leave your e-mail i will send them as an attachment!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzybonita 
I thought you was luck down for good May 3rd, 2012 08:06 PM ... Thread's Playa

You sir (BIZZYBONITA) are appointed to moderate here NOT sit back and mess with, and BULLY members. 



You have done this repeatedly with myself,despite my contribution to the D.Sc. threads and other since 2007..

My contribution to DSc is less because of your single handed ,sick minded bulling attitude imo!

take a look at your pointless tirade against me since the turn of the year below

I have repeatedly asked you and atlind, for your help for improvements to the Mess ,which your lack of "moderation" has led too in the first place on the DSc threads....


I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG TO DESERVE THIS !!!!!! 


Profile Infraction
Reason: Random Post
July 3rd, 2011 06:06 PM by bizzybonita 3 / May 3rd, 2012 06:06 PM

Profile Infraction
Reason: Inappropriate Language
February 7th, 2011 09:28 PM by bizzybonita 1 / Expired

Profile Infraction
Reason: Posting random stuff/opening random threads
February 4th, 2011 02:21 PM by bizzybonita 2 / Never

Profile Warning
Reason: Wrong attitude
February 4th, 2011 02:17 PM by bizzybonita 0 / Expired

Bizzybonita your are one sick human being...


----------



## Julito-dubai

amplesou, for uploading imagehack is the best...

Julito


----------



## amplesou

*pictures of the dsc constuction*

sorry not ready!


----------



## Doctor_UK

thanks for the info glover.. it was very useful

anyone from uk had a personal experience of getting a mortgage from a uae bank???? SOS...


...


----------



## MaaaD

99% financing for JBR from Dubai Bank .. 

http://www.ameinfo.com/124495.html


----------



## rexdmx

what the f***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
splendid.. i was in shock after reading that mate



MaaaD said:


> 99% financing for JBR from Dubai Bank ..
> 
> http://www.ameinfo.com/124495.html


----------



## Naz UK

I know, its shocking. They look like a mile-long-communist prison block.


----------



## IISinbadII

Ali_Syed said:


> sorry if this has been asked before. but this thread has 150 pages so is hard to track all the conversation!
> 
> how is canal residence west in sports city for investment? i have bought a studio and 1 bed apartment in there. in mind of selling the studio next year. the 1 bed cost AED 737K for off-plan of course, which seemed high already to the standards of DM where you can get 1 bed for slightly more than this which is completed too. anyhow, i guess the canal residence is a bit of a exclusive spot to live on?


Don't you think you should have asked this question before buying.


----------



## MaaaD

Naz UK said:


> I know, its shocking. They look like a mile-long-communist prison block.


i agree .. fugly from outside but from the pics Imre posted seems like the finishing is pretty good .. and if you have a sea view apartment and the walk gets completed those apartments seems to still have opportunity to appreciate. I think the current rental return on them is not bad 8-10% of market price today if i am not mistaken.


----------



## rexdmx

well.....that is not what i had in mind:| 




Naz UK said:


> I know, its shocking. They look like a mile-long-communist prison block.


----------



## rexdmx

*from AMEINFO TODAY*


JBR apartments and Palm Island villas and flats hit the market
Letting agents are concerned by a sudden influx of apartments and villas in the Dubai Marina district which are likely to test the strength of the local real estate market this autumn. Local newspapers are presently full of these attractive new apartments and villas but there are a great many for the market to absorb.

The Jumeirah Beach Residence is touted as the world's biggest ever single delivery of residential property with 6,500 apartments handed over this year. At the same time, hundreds of shoreline apartments on the nearby Palm Jumeirah are now ready for occupation and a similar number of villas. 

This property is in the mid-to-luxury end of the Dubai real estate market, and the delay in delivering these schemes has meant a shortfall in supply to meet rising demand. 

But now this huge volume of new property is ready for occupation. And at the other end of the scale the affordable apartments in Nakheel's even bigger International City are also coming on to the market. 


Oversupply?
Will the supply and demand curve now tip decisively into oversupply? This is certainly what the pessimists about the outlook for Dubai property have long argued. 

But the jury on this case will really be out until the autumn. Only in October, after the Holy Month of Ramadan will it become clear whether these apartments are selling, being let and achieving the high rentals that have become expected in Dubai. 

The announcement of a one per cent down payment mortgage on JBR apartments from the Dubai Bank in association with Dubai Properties should help to find buyers for units that the developer has not yet sold. 

The pessimists include some heavy hitters like EFG Hermes and Standard Chartered Bank, while ranked against them is the entire massed army of estate agents and Dubai developers who continue to energetically roll out new schemes as if demand was insatiable and supply always needed. 

When the music stops somebody is going to be left with egg on their faces. But will that be this year, next year or sometime later? 


End coming
No boom can possibly continue forever, and a real estate correction 18 months after the peaking of a local stock market bubble would be a typical cyclical pattern for an emerging market. That critical moment has just passed. Whether Dubai with its newly created freehold market can break this pattern for a while longer remains to be seen. 

However, having this sort of doubt resting in the minds of investors can not be a good sign really, particularly with real estate markets from Spain to the US now in trouble. And it only needs a serious hesitation to make commitments to precipitate a correction. 

For at the end of the day the market forces of supply and demand will dictate what happens to the Dubai property market, not the commentators, developers or estate agents. And if the demand is not there for the supply that will be an important turning point.


----------



## dm10

hi Ali,i bought in the cananl residence west med.tower,last year ithink it's a great investement and it's a unique place in Dubai.can't wiat for it to be ready!


----------



## Ali_Syed

IISinbadII, yes perhaps. but now that i have invested. i just wanted to know the views of people here.

and hi dm10, yes am excited too! i dont know when exactly this will be finished, may be by mid 2009 or slightly earlier. but will be great place to live. shame i wont be living there personally (will put it on rent).

talk soon,
ali


----------



## choco

*kensington manor*



Jay1234 said:


> Investing in Kensington Manor, Jumeirah Village THROUGH ACW HOLDINGS LTD, I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THIS COMPANY...ARE THEY LEGIT???


me too..and i hope so!!!


----------



## Imre

*Metro fires up property prices *



Dubai: Demand for real estate near Dubai Metro stations is heating up in response to the rapid physical emergence of the RTA's Dh15.5 billion project, say property consultants and agencies. 

Companies and residents on the hunt for real estate are increasingly prioritising locations near metro stations and are willing to pay a premium to avoid congested roads and tolls.

Meanwhile, landlords and real estate developers are responding by heavily marketing links between their properties and the first phase of the metro, which will follow a route along Shaikh Zayed Road and is scheduled to open in September 2009. The second phase will be built mostly underground and should open in March 2010. 


The trend means Dubai's future property hot spots will be dictated by proximity to the metro, says Craig Johnson, general manager at real estate consultancy Landmark Properties. "We have witnessed a huge surge in interest from prospective investors regarding the metro. Proximity to a metro stop has become a leading strategy for investors looking to maximise appreciation on their investments," he said, without specifying expected appreciation rates.

"Significantly, a number of reputable investment funds who are considered particularly astute in the market are targeting property located close to metro stations."

Peter Penhall, CEO of Dubai-based realty portal Gowealthy.com, said it is hard to estimate appreciation levels or premiums for property near stations, but said it will have a greater chance of holding its value should the market dip.

Recent trend

The seeds for the project were sown 10 years ago when a feasibility study concluded that Dubai could no longer rely on road networks to cater to escalating traffic. But investor interest in land near the metro has only recently picked up in response to the physical emergence of train lines and station locations, said Ryan Mahoney, managing director at Dubai-based real estate agency Better Homes. "People are realising that the metro is not just a pipedream. Construction work is happening quicker than they had anticipated."

He said prices should appreciate for non-luxury property within walking distance of stations, but said it is unlikely that Dubai's future demographics will change as the project is being built along existing road arteries. 

The majority of investor interest so far has been for commercial real estate, he added. "Business owners are thinking about how their mid-level staff will be able to commute to the office, especially as congestion and tolls are considered barriers to road use."

Retail real estate in and around stations will also be attractive to investors because of the guaranteed high shopper footfall that a metro station can provide, said Penhall.

It remains uncertain how close a property must be to a station to command a premium. In cities with moderate climates the distance is up to 400 metres, but in Dubai it will be nearer 100 metres, said Mahoney.

Source:Gulfnews


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ BD, BB, Greens/Golf Towers, JLT, Marina, what else?


----------



## Josau

The Metro will be a revival of certain malls as well , who have been "dead" recently, like Burjuman, which has a stop right next to it.


----------



## High Times

*METRO LINKS*

Anyone know exactly where the Marina Metro station link will be located ?


----------



## glover

^^ 
http://vgn.dm.gov.ae/DMEGOV/images/metro-lines-b.jpg


----------



## Naz UK

Josau said:


> The Metro will be a revival of certain malls as well , who have been "dead" recently, like Burjuman, which has a stop right next to it.


Burjuman (like Wafi City) is dead because its filled with expensive garbabe which only 0.1% of Dubai's population can afford to buy.


----------



## Imre

High Times said:


> Anyone know exactly where the Marina Metro station link will be located ?


front of the Jumeirah Lakes Towers S plot ( Green Lakes ) , opposite Marina Diamonds


----------



## Krazy

*Business Bay witnesses 25 PC jump in property values*


Owing to its close proximity and easy access to the main city, along with increasing demand for quality office space, Dubai's Business Bay development has witnessed a 25 per cent increase in property values over the past 18 months, according to leading property services company, Asteco.

'Demand for Grade 'A' commercial space in Dubai's main business district is high promising lucrative returns. Case in point is the overwhelming response to launch of sales for the recently announced Oberoi Office Building project at Business Bay which was snapped up by eager investors immediately,' explained James Knowles, Asteco's Sales and Leasing Director.

Asteco was awarded the sales contract for the AED800 million Oberoi Centre and Office Building project, an integrated freehold development comprising a 33-storey commercial tower and a 249-room luxury hotel occupying an enviable location near the gate of Dubai's Business Bay.

'Business Bay's closeness to Sheikh Zayed Road and infrastructure progress adds tremendous value to strategically located projects such as the Oberoi Office Tower. Existing buyers include a majority of Russians, UK nationals and Indians, including few national investors,' Knowles added.

Due for completion in 2009, the project owner, Rani International - part of Saudi-based Aujan Group - has signed a Management agreement with India's five-star hotel chain, the Oberoi Group.

Overlooking stunning lake views, the Oberoi Office Building offers both office and retail space, with single unit sizes starting at 2,000 square feet with the flexibility of buying up to 10,500 square feet for the entire floor. Situated close to the upcoming Metro station, tenants will also have access to the high-end leisure and dining outlets and services provided by the adjoining hotel.

Hepher Project Management has been appointed as Project Manager for the development while Dutch Foundation Company is the piling contractor. Construction works on the project started two months ago.

Founded in Dubai in 1985, Asteco is the UAE's largest property services company. Its services include retail, commercial and residential sales and leasing; strategic consultancy; property management and marketing; feasibility studies and valuations; and research and investment.


----------



## V Kapoor

Imre said:


> front of the Jumeirah Lakes Towers S plot ( Green Lakes ) , opposite Marina Diamonds


And isn't there a Metro Station very close (accross the road) to Marina Diamond 2?


----------



## Imre

that is the Jumeirah Lakes Towers Metro Station , front of Indigo, Lake Terrace , Almas etc..opposite Horizon Tower , , yes close to MD2 as well.


----------



## TGI FRIDAY

*Legal Consultation..*

Shocking news from Bonyan...

Dubai Gate 1

I sold my apartment at DG1. I received down payment from purchaser and spent almost 75% of the money.

When I called Bonyan to indorse the apartment to the name of the buyer, they told me that the area of my apartment is only 50% of what is mentioned in the contract. e.g. if the area is 2000 sq. ft. it became 1000 sq.ft., due to re-engineering of the building.

Now I can not take a replacement apartment, as they suggested in a different floor with different area, because I need to pay back the money to the buyer.

What can I do in order to protect my rights, specially if they cancel the contract and give me back my money, I'll be loosing the market value which is almost 50% higher than original price. Also they held the money for over a year and a half.

If any one can advise me, I'll be very greatful.


----------



## glover

*Slow projects to keep rents high*

Property Weekly
Manoj Nair, Editor
Published: 21/06/2007

The new generation of landlords in Dubai will have something to look forward to in the short term — demand for residential units will continue to far outpace supply right through the rest of 2007 and 2008.

This would place them in an advantageous position with respect to fixing rents during this period. Delays in key projects mean that deliveries were much less than that forecasted in 2006 — against an expected 40,000 units, only 14,000 were delivered.

But the leverage landlords have enjoyed to date could come under threat in 2009. By then the first hints of over-supply will start to make its presence felt, according to a new report by Asteco.

According to these estimates, Dubai would require anywhere between 39,000 to 45,000 mew residential units added each year to meet the current demand.

“Demand is projected to fall significantly short of expected supply in both 2007 and 2008,” says the report which looks at trends in Dubai’s residential space during the first quarter of 2007.

“However, a situation of over-supply is unavoidable by 2009, which may put downward pressure on prices. The extent of the situation will depend on the timeliness of deliveries.”

Even now, rents have started to level off in some localities, particularly those areas where on-going residential projects have started to enter the home stretch.

Rental rates in Dubai Marina, Greens and Shaikh Zayed Road saw lower rate increases — of between 8 and 13 per cent — possibly due to on-coming supply expected in these areas later this year and the availability of more reasonable accommodation in upcoming areas such as International City.

“The mismatch between supply and demand is expected to soften the Dubai residential market, severely affecting the high-end apartment units targeting the high-income proportion of the population. In contrast, the apartments catering to middle income residents might see high occupancy levels,” says the Asteco report.

The apartment rents for the first quarter peaked to more than Dh200,000 for a three-bedroom apartment in Dubai Marina and on Shaikh Zayed Road.

Increasing demand, coupled with the lack availability of completed units increased rentals in these areas. Dubai Marina had the highest rentals of around Dh110,000 to Dh210,000, and on average, rents there increased by 20 per cent, compared with the fourth quarter of 2006.

Across the emirate, rentals increased in both New and Old Dubai areas at an average of 13 per cent. Villas in Al Garhoud and Umm Suqueim witnessed the highest rental increases of 15 and 14 per cent respectively, in Old Dubai.

Heading downtown, villas in The Meadows and Hattan had the highest increases of 15 and 14 per cent.

New Dubai refers primarily to the freehold developments located near interchange 5 on Shaikh Zayed Road.On average, rental rates have increased by 14 per cent for one-bed, 18 per cent for two-bed and 13 per cent for three-bedroom apartments.

The highest increase was noticed in Oud Metha, where one-bedroom unit rents increased by 31 per cent, two-bed rents by 47 per cent and three-beds by 32 per cent. The rental increases in Mamzar, Muraqqabat and Satwa were a close second in the first quarter, with average rentals increasing by 16 to 20 per cent.

Average rates

The average current rental rates for one-, two- and three-bedroom apartments in the first three months of the year were approximately Dh80,000, Dh115,000 and Dh140,000 respectively.

As regards projected increases in Dubai’s resident base, Asteco finds that the population is forecasted to rise by 99,540, 106,508 and 113,963 in 2007, 2008 and 2009 respectively based on a 7 per cent annual growth.

The current population size is 1.4 million.

“If Dubai is benchmarked against internationally accepted standards, then a residential unit accommodates 2.5 persons,” Asteco notes.

“Taking that into account, the demand for residential units is estimated to be 39,816, 42,603 and 45,585 units in 2007, 2008 and 2009 respectively.

“The annual units supplied factoring in a 20 per cent delay in completion of units, the supply is estimated to be 34,835, 66,991 and 61,616 in 2007, 2008 and 2009 respectively.

“The project delays will leave a portion of demand unmet, which will create excess demand for next year. The net effect would be a situation of under supply till 2008. An over-supply situation is possible in 2009 with an excess of around 9,500 units, despite accounting for a 20 per cent delay in project completion.”

Set for completion in 2007

* The Palm Jumeirah (4,000 luxury Villas)
* International City
* Jumeirah Golf Estate (First Phase)
* Jumeirah Beach Residence (6,916 units)
* Dubai Sports City (First Phase)
* Palladium Towers (210 residential units)
* Lake Terrace and Lake Views (1,100 units combined)
* Al Shahd Tower (Emirates Hills)
* Discovery Gardens


----------



## Stephan23

Anyone close this thread!!!


----------



## glover

*Marina is still the same magnet*

Property Weekly

Sahana Sen, Freelance Writer

Published: 27/06/2007

With the handover of completed towers becoming a regular feature, sharp variances have started to surface in prices across the Dubai Marina master development.

The highest prices are commanded by buildings parallel to Shaikh Zayed Road up to the Dubai Marina Mall, while the circle around Grosvenor House is also rated ‘hot’.

The current quotes on ready properties are in the range of Dh1,300 to Dh1,400 a square foot, but there are apartments with partial sea-views going for Dh850 to Dh900.

"They vary from developer to developer, apartment to apartment. Facilities and luxuries within a tower and even maintenance fee of a tower is a factor in consideration," says Amr Solaiman, Residential Manager at Coldwell Banker.

There are six districts within Dubai Marina — pink, red, orange, green, yellow and blue. Red and green are rated as the plum spots and seem to enjoy the highest premiums.

"There will always be pockets in the development which will command premium,” adds Solaiman.

“Demand for them will never end. The circle around Grosvenor House will always be a Singapore Bay or Champs-Elysees of Dubai. The others areas will suffer because of JBR's clutter."

When Dubai Marina was launched, rates were Dh400 per square foot, which has since seen a 150 to 200 per cent appreciation.

Land values too have gone the same way with an average 100 per cent increase. Current rates are Dh300 to Dh350 a square foot.

In the recent past, the gains have started to stabilise, which could be an indication that new capacities have started to have an impact.

"Since over a year prices have been stable in Dubai Marina and the rate of increase has come down to 10 to 20 per cent," the official says.

As a case in point, in January 2006, ready properties were commanding a price in the region of Dh900 to Dh950 per square foot.

In July this year, these went up to Dh1,050 to Dh1,100, while the current rates are between Dh1,350 to Dh1,400.

The growth pattern on off-plan units has been almost the same with annual gains of 20 per cent.

"All ready towers are available in the secondary market now. There is still demand for ready properties, but premiums are going down.”

There will be at least 260 towers in Dubai Marina by 2009.

"More expatriates are exiting their leasehold properties to buy their own in Dubai,” says Solaiman.

“Although they have bought properties in the Marina, many are not intent on staying there. It is the GCC and international investor clout that is apparent. Most investors come straight from the airport to enquire about the Marina."

Rentals

* One bed unit Dh95,000-Dh110,000
* Two bed unit Dh140,000-Dh170,000
* Three bed unit Up to Dh210,000
* Four bed unit Up to Dh250,000


----------



## Imre

I went to the JBR sales center yesterday, they have lots of apartments for sale.
1 bed starts from 1.15 M , 2 bed 1.37 M , 3 bed 1.93M ( low floors , marina/garden/pool view)


----------



## DubaiPads.com

Hi Imre,
By lots do you mean dozens, or hundreds?


----------



## HarryKane

Imre said:


> I went to the JBR sales center yesterday, they have lots of apartments for sale.
> 1 bed starts from 1.15 M , 2 bed 1.37 M , 3 bed 1.93M ( low floors , marina/garden/pool view)


Do you know if they have any with full sea views?


----------



## Imre

DubaiPads.com said:


> Hi Imre,
> By lots do you mean dozens, or hundreds?


I have a list with apr 100 apartments , afternoon I will try to scann it and post here.


----------



## Imre

HarryKane said:


> Do you know if they have any with full sea views?


they have , I will post here soon.


----------



## High Times

glover said:


> Property Weekly
> 
> Sahana Sen, Freelance Writer
> 
> Published: 27/06/2007
> 
> With the handover of completed towers becoming a regular feature, sharp variances have started to surface in prices across the Dubai Marina master development.
> 
> The highest prices are commanded by buildings parallel to Shaikh Zayed Road up to the Dubai Marina Mall, while the circle around Grosvenor House is also rated ‘hot’.
> 
> The current quotes on ready properties are in the range of Dh1,300 to Dh1,400 a square foot, but there are apartments with partial sea-views going for Dh850 to Dh900.
> 
> "They vary from developer to developer, apartment to apartment. Facilities and luxuries within a tower and even maintenance fee of a tower is a factor in consideration," says Amr Solaiman, Residential Manager at Coldwell Banker.
> 
> There are six districts within Dubai Marina — pink, red, orange, green, yellow and blue. Red and green are rated as the plum spots and seem to enjoy the highest premiums.
> 
> "There will always be pockets in the development which will command premium,” adds Solaiman.
> 
> “Demand for them will never end. The circle around Grosvenor House will always be a Singapore Bay or Champs-Elysees of Dubai. The others areas will suffer because of JBR's clutter."
> 
> When Dubai Marina was launched, rates were Dh400 per square foot, which has since seen a 150 to 200 per cent appreciation.
> 
> Land values too have gone the same way with an average 100 per cent increase. Current rates are Dh300 to Dh350 a square foot.
> 
> In the recent past, the gains have started to stabilise, which could be an indication that new capacities have started to have an impact.
> 
> "Since over a year prices have been stable in Dubai Marina and the rate of increase has come down to 10 to 20 per cent," the official says.
> 
> As a case in point, in January 2006, ready properties were commanding a price in the region of Dh900 to Dh950 per square foot.
> 
> In July this year, these went up to Dh1,050 to Dh1,100, while the current rates are between Dh1,350 to Dh1,400.
> 
> The growth pattern on off-plan units has been almost the same with annual gains of 20 per cent.
> 
> "All ready towers are available in the secondary market now. There is still demand for ready properties, but premiums are going down.”
> 
> There will be at least 260 towers in Dubai Marina by 2009.
> 
> "More expatriates are exiting their leasehold properties to buy their own in Dubai,” says Solaiman.
> 
> “Although they have bought properties in the Marina, many are not intent on staying there. It is the GCC and international investor clout that is apparent. Most investors come straight from the airport to enquire about the Marina."
> 
> Rentals
> 
> * One bed unit Dh95,000-Dh110,000
> * Two bed unit Dh140,000-Dh170,000
> * Three bed unit Up to Dh210,000
> * Four bed unit Up to Dh250,000


Would you say that the Torch is included in the circle around Grosvenor House ??


----------



## Imre

DubaiPads.com said:


> Hi Imre,
> By lots do you mean dozens, or hundreds?


1,2,3 b/r , I think they have more I just asked some cheapest apartments list


----------



## glover

High Times said:


> Would you say that the Torch is included in the circle around Grosvenor House ??


my inclination is that they mean the roundabout next to GH, could be wrong on that though!


----------



## Morrismarina

High Times said:


> Would you say that the Torch is included in the circle around Grosvenor House ??


I've never heard of this coloured zoning before, reckon it's all a load of BS invented by some crazy journalist. hno:


----------



## glover

^^ looks like it's coming from Amr Solaiman, the Residential Manager at Coldwell Banker.

"They vary from developer to developer, apartment to apartment. Facilities and luxuries within a tower and even maintenance fee of a tower is a factor in consideration," says Amr Solaiman, Residential Manager at Coldwell Banker.

There are six districts within Dubai Marina — pink, red, orange, green, yellow and blue. Red and green are rated as the plum spots and seem to enjoy the highest premiums.

"There will always be pockets in the development which will command premium,” adds Solaiman.

“Demand for them will never end. The circle around Grosvenor House will always be a Singapore Bay or Champs-Elysees of Dubai. The others areas will suffer because of JBR's clutter."


----------



## Krazy

glover said:


> my inclination is that they mean the roundabout next to GH, could be wrong on that though!



:lol: I know where you're going with that... no they don't mean the round about... the circle they are refering to includes:

Phase 1
Marinscape
Marina Tower
Marina Terrace
Grosnevor House Residential
Infinity
Torch
MH
Unknown Emaar project



although this circle talk IMO is a lot of BS.. the most "prestigious" spots in Dubai Marina are going to be the tallest block, marina walk and the marina mall block


----------



## mission

Does anyone in the uk know a good financial advisor on tax from abroad income?

Is it possible i can set up my own offshore company to avoid tax, i really dont get it but i would like some professional help


----------



## glover

Krazy said:


> :lol: I know where you're going with that... no they don't mean the round about... the circle they are refering to includes:
> 
> Phase 1
> Marinscape
> Marina Tower
> Marina Terrace
> Grosnevor House Residential
> Infinity
> Torch
> MH
> Unknown Emaar project
> 
> 
> 
> although this circle talk IMO is a lot of BS.. the most "prestigious" spots in Dubai Marina are going to be the tallest block, marina walk and the marina mall block


wow, thats quite a change around. just yesterday you said there is no one part in the marina better than the other (you actually said anyone who says that doesn't know what they are talking about), and now you are saying that indeed there are parts in the marina better than others.

and no, you are wrong, i am not trying to pump Park Island. why would they say GH circle when they could simply say phase 1 circle if they are referring to the buildings you mentioned! that would put GH at the end of the circle, not in the middle of it!


----------



## Krazy

^^ There is a reason I put the word prestigious in quotes... I was referring to these spots being more upscale/expensive/rich than others. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out... just have a look at the facilities/tower heights in the areas I mentioned not to forget their property prices. I still believe that it's naive to think that "my area of Marina is better than yours". Every region in the Marina will have its advantages and disadvantages and it depends on personal taste.

And no I am not wrong.. when they talk about the "circle" they are referring to the marina circle and the towers that surround it and not the stupid roundabout.. you expect to see aerial pictures like this in Dubai calendars:










and NOT this:


----------



## glover

^^ you could be very well right about the circle, i am not arguing about that! however, to put it in the terms you did "my area of Marina is better than yours" is really a childish way in looking at things. people pay more for one side in the marina over another because of tangible factors, not prestige per se. if you think people pay top money to say that, i am sorry to say that that's a very childish way of thinking. living anywhere in the marina gives you all the prestige you need. 

it's actually naive to think that there is no one part in the marina better than other parts.

and when i said you are wrong, i wasn't referring to the circle thing, i was referring to "
I know where you're going with that". where was i going with that! that came form nowhere!


----------



## ps500

Morrismarina said:


> I've never heard of this coloured zoning before, reckon it's all a load of BS invented by some crazy journalist. hno:


Morris

I have a Marina plan in front of me published in the Dubai property guide www.projectdubai.com, this has these zones coloured as follows:
Red District - Tallest block +Torch, Marina Heights
Green District - Phase 1 Marina down to the bridge at Marina View
Orange - Grovesnor House down to Marina Promenade (including Trident Grand Residence
Pink district - JBR
Yellow - Atlantic and Marina Mall down to the waves
Blue - Unflatteringly referred to as arse end by others on forum

I will try and get the page scanned


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Dubai property guide has the whole of Dubai devided into colored zones http://www.projectdubai.com/search.php does that mean anything?

On another note, lets cut up BD, BB, JLT, etc into colored zones too and figure out which zone is more prestigeious and which less?

hno:


----------



## Imre

Gulfnews


*Cement prices bring smiles to producers, tears to others *



Dubai: In a region where $1.7 trillion worth of real estate is being constructed or in the pipeline, price trends in the cement industry take on heightened significance.

The bad news for local property developers and contractors is that between 2003 and 2005, the value of cement per bag jumped by 88 per cent in the UAE, according to figures published by Emirates Industrial Bank. 

This year alone, bills for bulk cement shot up by around 20 per cent - reaching more than Dh300 per tonne earlier this month, say cement buyers.

While cement factories enjoy profitable times - some say they are taking advantage of high demand - the trend is putting strain on the construction industry. 

Cement accounts for around 20 per cent of a tower's construction cost, putting developers' margins under pressure. 

Meanwhile contractors and companies manufacturing products such as concrete blocks and road curbing claim cement factories are jacking up prices by around Dh10 every fortnight, making it almost impossible to plan long-term fixed contracts.

Even government projects are being affected, said Ebrahim Al Shehhi, director, UAE Ministry of Public Works. "As a ministry we are tendering two or three times for a project. Contractors are not coming forward because they don't know what the price of steel, cement and electrical cable will be the next day."

Industrial consultant G. Prithviraj, managing partner at Dubai-based PRG Consultants, recently speculated that prices would hit Dh350 per tonne in four to six weeks, before going through a correction triggered by imports from overseas and increased production capacity at UAE factories.

Price control

A combination of these forecasts and pressure from cement buyers encouraged the UAE Ministry of Economy to slap a Dh295 per tonne price ceiling on cement and Dh17 per bag of 50 kg. The controls, which were announced two weeks ago, are expected to remain in place until at least the end of 2007.

Although welcomed by cement buyers, the move has raised some reservations among analysts.

Ken Rumph, global cement analyst at Sustainable Building Strategies, said while cement prices are being capped, other costs of cement production, such as fuel, continue to escalate.

Cement factories themselves say price hikes are a response to increasing cost of clinker, a raw material used to produce cement, and higher energy and freight costs.

Meanwhile, Richard Feraud, managing director of Quadra Trading, which trades building materials, said cooling the market by raising the level of cement imports would have been a viable alternative.

Commenting from a developer's perspective, Damac Properties CEO Peter Riddoch, said he supports government price controls, but only because suppliers appear to be 'taking advantage' of high demand. 

"I'm very much in favour of free economies, but I'm not in favour of any supplier, whether cement producers or landlords of residential buildings, taking advantage of a market situation. In these cases the government has a role to play in establishing control," he said.

Several cement buyers contacted by Gulf News also claim that some producers restrict supply to justify price increases and give less than a week's warning before upping rates. 

Cement factories have denied the allegation, claiming they are operating at full capacity.

Over-capacity

While the price cap has introduced protection from price inflation, a more long-term answer could be on the horizon for the UAE's construction industry. 

Major concrete producing countries including the UAE, Saudi Arabia and Iran will all have sizeable capacity overhangs in the next 2-3 years, easing pressure on prices, according to presentations made at the recent Cement Middle East conference, an event organised by MEED Conferences. 

Last year the UAE's cement production capacity stood at 14 million tonnes compared to an almost identical level of consumption.

By 2009 the UAE will become one of the GCC's biggest cement producers with annual production of up to 50 million tonnes, said Al Shehhi. However he stressed this figure will only be reached if all planned plant expansion and new production lines are realised.

If cement demand grows at the expected 10-15 per cent rate between 2007 and 2009, consumption will reach around 17 million tonnes per year, creating an oversupply of up to 33 million tonnes.

Crucially for the construction industry, Al Shehhi said prices could sink to around Dh220 per tonne by 2009 as a result.

A similar scenario will occur in Saudi Arabia, said Saud Islam, board member and CEO of Yanbu Cement Company in Jeddah.

By 2009 the country is projected to demand just under 33 million tonnes of cement per year, compared to a forecast supply of 49.3 million tonnes - an oversupply of around 16 million tonnes.

Islam admitted this would drive rates down. But he said a combination of capacity upgrades, increased mergers and acquisitions and greater foreign ownership would create economies of scale and improve operating strategies, thus cutting production costs and easing pressure on profits.

Meanwhile in Egypt, cement production hit 37.1 million tonnes in 2006 - a 60 per cent increase on 2000, said Hatem Khalil, board member of Qena Cement Company Plant, Egypt's leading cement producer.

With domestic consumption of 30.5 million tonnes of cement in the same year, Egypt was able to export 8.8 million tonnes of cement and clinker.

Looking to the future, Khalil said planned housing and infrastructure projects are expected to drive up consumption to 42.9 million tonnes in 2011.

Contracts for five new cement plants were signed last year and with the expected announcement of several more new plants, production will increase to 52 million tonnes in 2010-11, creating opportunities to export to Africa, Europe and the America's via Egypt's Mediterranean and Red Sea ports.

Iran, another major concrete supplier in the Middle East, will have surplus cement capacity of 25 million tonnes by 2012, according to Mohammad Basiri, Iran's deputy minister of industry.

If these expansion plans are realised and most cement producing countries experience production oversupply, a new issue emerges - what to do with tens of millions of extra capacity.

For many in the construction industry, it's a problem they won't be in any rush to solve.


----------



## Imre

this is not Dubai but interesting:

*Ajman is new property hotspot *


Dubai: Ajman may be the smallest of the UAE's seven states at only 260 square kilometres, but its property sector is one of the country's most active.

Close to 200 freehold residential towers are either under construction or have been completed since the city's freehold property sector kicked off in 2004.

With the possibility of 100 per cent ownership rights and guaranteed residency visas for buyers, the emirate has attracted strong investment from GCC nationals, expatriates and overseas buyers.

"All of the northern emirates are witnessing major real estate development, but Ajman is possibly the most active in terms of construction," said Roger Wilkinson, managing partner of Northern Emirates Property, a Sharjah-based property leasing and management company, which runs the website Ajman Property.com. 


The city markets itself as a place to get away from busy city life, but getting away from Dubai's high rents seems to be a key reason for moving there. Average outright purchase prices are also significantly less - up to four times lower than in Dubai, said Wilkinson - and flat sizes tend to be bigger.

Target

Real estate companies are only able to offer affordable housing aimed at mid-income earners if they can keep their initial development costs down.

Amir Ameen, director of Star Giga Establishment, said the land price in Ajman for his Dh700 million Goldcrest Dreams project was around Dh40 per square foot compared with about Dh150 in Dubai.

At the project launch, the 1,600 apartments within the four building project started at Dh285,0000 for a one bedroom apartment and climbed to Dh416,000 for two bedroom apartments.

Ajman's close proximity to Dubai is another plus point. The 35 kilometre drive can take as little as 20 minutes or more than two hours. New highway and rail connections are expected to shorten the journey.

However, the emirate does not want to be considered merely a satellite town to house Dubai workers. According to Wilkinson, who has monitored Ajman's real estate development for more than 15 years, the emirate is attracting commercial, retail and hospitality investment, as well as improving its general infrastructure and boasting major banks and retailers.

As amenities increase and transport links improve, prices invariably climb - good reason for investing now, say property agents. The city currently lacks mortgage facilities, but once these are introduced, buyers will be able to finance bigger purchases, which would in turn drive rates up.

Average prices for freehold property are now Dh350-550 per square foot, says Wilkinson, but can be as high as Dh750-950 per square foot mark for more luxurious projects. Rents have gone up by 10-20 per cent since the start of the year, he added.

Lisa Dale, head of Al Tamimi & Company's property department, said Ajman allows a maximum rent increase of 20 per cent after the first three years of a contract.

Although the market is less mature than Dubai, meaning prices will continue to increase while the Dubai market eventually stabilises, there will always be a gap between the two, say major developers.

"I'm sure prices will increase but they will never reach the level of Dubai," said Omar Ayesh, president of Sharjah-based private developer Tameer, which is developing Al Ameera Village in Ajman.

"There will always be a gap because the standard of living, the infrastructure and facilities in Dubai are very high. You pay a price for the Dubai brand."


Private developers show increasing interest

Ajman's freehold property sector opened up in July 2004 with the launch of Al Naeymiyah Towers - a 15-tower development split into two phases. 

Purchase prices during the launch of the first phase were just Dh157 per square foot and increased to Dh180 per square foot for the second phase.

Developed by the government of Ajman, which acts as a master developer for the emirate, the project has been completed - proof that the city can deliver major residential projects and a major confidence booster for property speculators and end users, said Roger Wilkinson, managing partner of Northern Emirates Property.

Since then, projects including Rashidiya Towers, a complex of 11 buildings which sold for Dh220 per square foot on launch, have been delivered, while the nine-building Al Khor Towers development is scheduled for completion by the end of the year. 

Other major projects scheduled for delivery by 2010 include Horizon Towers, Falcon Tower, Ajman One and Corniche Tower. 

Although most of these are developed and financed by the Ajman government, some land plots have been snapped up by private developers.

Star Giga Establishment last year launched a Dh700 million freehold residential property development at Paradise Lakes on the Emirates Road.

Goldcrest Dreams will contain 1,600 one and two bedroom apartments and is scheduled for delivery in mid 2009.

Gulfnews


----------



## Sady

*Alareifi Marina postponed again to December 2008!*

Hi Everyone,
Yet again I have been told yesterday by Alareifi that the completion has now been moved to Dec 2008. hno: 

Has anyone got any latest picture as Alareifi told me they have finished 2 floors?

According to my contract this was due to finish next month. Has anyone started any proceeding to get the fine paid? 

I do hope the project get completed eventually. Has anyone bought this apartment and is worried like me?:bash: 

Regards


----------



## kHAN66

hi masood 

how much were they?
is it good location and full furns package in them?


----------



## agod

Hi Imre

I have just been looking at your photo’s in the Archive’s and on this thread, and I would personally like to thank you, for the massive amount of time and energy that you have put in, from actually going around taking them, and then the work involved in posting them on the Forum.

What you have actually achieved, is a massive photographic Library of the birth of a city, you have a huge record of all the happenings of Dubai that will sure to become a most sort after historical document, I can see in 10 years time or less, it will be in huge demand for Exhibitions, and Photo Agencies, looking for the the pictures that told the story.


Thanks for your dedicated service.

Alan


----------



## High Times

^^ 

Absolutely.

Well done Imre, and thank you.


----------



## rexdmx

A Short History of Dubai Property: Part 4
The last article in this series was published three years ago, and a lot has happened in Dubai property since then. Indeed, the whole market has matured considerably and the much discussed slowdown has failed to materialise to date. This is the first of three summer articles bringing AME Info readers up to the present day.
From the vantage point of the Montgomerie Golf Club's terrace there is a magnificent view down over the Dubai Marina and New Dubai. Even in the year 2000 this was an empty patch of desert with a recently completed 1.8 kilometre long artificial marina. 

But by 2005 more than one hundred high-rise towers started to emerge in this compact area facing the famous Jumeirah Beach and across the Sheikh Zayed Road at the Jumeirah Lake Towers. A similar picture might have been drawn for many Dubai mega projects, from the Palm Jumeirah to the Dubai Festival City site or the Dubai International Financial Centre. 

Everywhere the sound of pile hammers echoed against concrete and floors rose skywards at a dizzying speed. Some three floors per week appeared at the Burj Dubai, set to rise to around 170 storeys and become the tallest building in the world. 


Property riches
However, in 2005, the Dubai Property column on AME Info correctly judged that the boom was not over yet. Sceptics were a lot thinner on the ground by this point of the boom. Rising prices and flipping properties had made quite a few people rich, while the sceptics found that their rental costs were now surging, leaving them poorer both in investment terms and in their monthly outgoings. 

At this time Dubai share prices were also heading to giddy heights, and AME Info suggested that a share crash would be a good thing for property prices because more cash would flow into real estate. The Chairman of Damac Properties dismissed this idea from AME Info as completely absurd but it proved correct nevertheless. 

However, times were changing as the Dubai freehold revolution moved into 2006. As we noted on AME Info, 'Delays on delivery are not new in Dubai, but waiting times are getting longer. The Meadows 3 and 4 came in two months late just over a year ago, now slippages of more than six months are the norm.' 

But the local real estate market was changing and maturing even at this point in the boom. The move by investors away from speculating in off-plan sales was matched by a new interest in buying villas. 


HSBC mortgages
By October 2005 the Dubai real estate market showed another sign of maturity when HSBC announced that it would begin offering local mortgages. At this time, AME Info published an article that is among the best-read articles of all-time on the website. 

It explained: 'The pioneer home buyers in Dubai three years ago faced a short-list of one company when arranging a mortgage; Amlak Finance was the only place to go. Since then Tamweel has been created as a local rival and several local UAE banks have entered the mortgage market, most recently the Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank. HSBC has been in the market for a while but was offering finance on a very limited selection of Nakheel properties. Now this giant of international banking has rolled back the frontier a stage further with its flexible mortgages.' 

New finance is good for any market, especially from a trusted global household name like HSBC. But in 2005 the first cracks emerged in the until then breathlessly optimistic outlook for Dubai business with the stock market hitting a top in June, then crashing and recovering into November, and then heading down again. 

One article summed up the year-end position for Dubai property: '2005 was a tale of two markets: re-sale of completed property continued strongly with prices either holding steady at higher levels, or advancing 10% or more in the case of villas; but off-plan sales slowed considerably and the first negative premiums emerged on certain developments, such as The Golden Mile on The Palm Jumeirah.' That was the first sign in three years that booms do not last forever!


----------



## Imre

Thanks Agod and High Times


----------



## glover

ps500 said:


> Morris
> 
> I have a Marina plan in front of me published in the Dubai property guide www.projectdubai.com, this has these zones coloured as follows:
> Red District - Tallest block +Torch, Marina Heights
> Green District - Phase 1 Marina down to the bridge at Marina View
> Orange - Grovesnor House down to Marina Promenade (including Trident Grand Residence
> Pink district - JBR
> Yellow - Atlantic and Marina Mall down to the waves
> Blue - Unflatteringly referred to as arse end by others on forum
> 
> I will try and get the page scanned



did you have time to scan it! i checked a couple places in dubai, but they did not carry the guide!


----------



## Masood

kHAN66 said:


> hi masood
> 
> how much were they?
> is it good location and full furns package in them?


Hi Khan66,

I purchased them at around AED365000, but without any furnishings package, apart from the basic such as washing machine, cooker e.t.c.

The Desert Rose Development is located in District 12 and looking at the present situation, my contacts in Dubai believe it will take a month or so for plot handover. Being a G+4, I don't think it'll take too much time to go up.

However, most independent agents I have spoken to tell me that the developer Desert Homes have a decent reputation and I don't have any problems with them returning receipts e.t.c...., although communicaton can be a bit slow as with all developers!

Any other information brother, you can PM me.

Hope this helps.


----------



## foxy

*Rich boys and thier toys*

Hi guys

Here's something to bring a smile to your face!

http://www.sea-dreamer.com/newspage.asp?storyid=960

There's a sporting chance that Dubai will get the next America's Cup. too early for these :banana: :cheers: 

Fingers and legs crossed


----------



## ps500

*Marina district map*



glover said:


> did you have time to scan it! i checked a couple places in dubai, but they did not carry the guide!


Glover

Marina layout from Property Guide.


----------



## glover

thanks a bunch. so after all, in the story published in Property Weekly about the different zones in the marina, when they said the Grosvenor House circle being a hot area, they did mean the roundabout right next to GH you see in the above zoned map, not phase 1 and tallest block area, which they referred to it in the story as the green and red zones!!


----------



## rsm

Hi Folks, could do with some advice. Have spent 2 years lurking on here before i took the plunge and bought at the point in the marina. Unfortunately my personal situation has now changed and it looks as though my getaway paradise isn't meant to be. I bought one of the marina facing type 1a? 1 bedroom flats. I bought on a lengthy payment plan and have paid all the big payments, i now only pay a few thousand a 1/4.

If i phoned dubai select on monday how much of my initial investment would i get back. I'm thinking worst case my inital investment minus admin charges. Best case ? 

Thanks


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ did you try to sell the apartment in the market?


----------



## rsm

no not made any move yet


----------



## glover

^^^ Marina facing 1bed would easily go on the market, with 15-20% return at least imo! call realtors in dubai and get an appraisal.


----------



## pcheesman

*My View On the Market*

Hi


Sorry for the delay in replying, as we have had our weekend here and I was away.


My views on the market in Dubai are as follows (it's a bit long).

Over the last 4 years we have of course seen a massive boom in the property market in Dubai, and currently the demand for property is far outstripping supply; clearly leading to escalating property prices and rentals. 


There are core reasons for investing and living in Dubai and these are what I generally discuss with my clients:


•	Location

Dubai is in an excellent stratgeic location, placed between Europe, Africa, and Asia. There are 2 billion people living within 6 hours of flying from Dubai, which is a huge market. As a logisitics hub, Dubai is second to none in the world. You only have to see the success of the Jebel Ali Freezone/Port to understand the benefits of having your business located here. So many goods are imported here and then re-exported to new markets.


•	Business Environment

It is very easy to set up a business in Dubai wherever it's a local company (with sponsor) or a freezone. Our real estate company is located in a freezone and I have nothing but praise for the management and staff there who are professional and quick to resolve any problems. The UAE is a tax free zone; specifically corporation tax, capital gains, and income tax. The UAE is however a 'fee based society', i.e. whatever you want you have to pay for it. 


•	Security

The UAE is relatively crime free. I have lived here for 3 years and I have seen maybe 2 fights in bars in that time. There is very little street crime per head of population. There is a lot of attempted fraud and money laundering going on but this is gradually being reduced as new laws and enforcement is being put in place. Many of my clients (particularly with children) love it here because they can walk down the street at 2.00 am and not be robbed. The UAE have a very effective system here. If you get caught committing a crime, you do your time, then you get sent home and banned from returning. It's a very effective system and you don’t get any repeat offenders.


•	Weather

Being from the UK, this is quite important and a huge factor in staying here. The exception is of course during the summer months when many people leave because of the extreme temperatures.

•	Facilities

There are excellent schools and hospitals here now. There are an increasing range of tourist activities. Traditionally this has been the beach, restaurants, bars, night clubs, shopping but increasingly and in the future there will be more theatre, opera, museums, and other more cultural activities. Of course we will also have the massive Dubailand project which will dramatically increase the number of tourists coming to visit the country.


•	The economy.

The UAE GDP is expected to reach nearly AED 700 billion for 2007 and the trend is upward. In Dubai the GDP is only 5% based on oil; the remainder is from tourism, construction, financial services, aerospace, information technology, manufacturing, logistics and others. It has become a well balanced economy due to the massive investment that has been made.


•	The government

The government here is a monarchy which has a very strong vision about where they want to be. It was recently reported in the press here that there are plans in the pipeline for a city for 11 million people in Dubai over the next 25 years. That is a staggering investment, and makes it a very exciting place to live and work here. The government are very pro-business, they want to get the best ideas from around the world to develop the city, and they want to make it an amazing place to live and work. They are gradually introducing a more democratic framework and more representation for the people which can only be a good thing.



So these reasons and others, make it a very attractive place to come and work. 

Of course Dubai has problems as well like the traffic, the bureaucracy, lack of planning and regulation in some areas but these are all improving over time. 


The biggest risk to Dubai is a major geo-political event in the region such as the US attacking Iran. However based on previous experience, this may actually benefit Dubai. The city has only prospered further through a 10 year war between Iran and Iraq, two gulf wars, and the Lebanese/Palestinian crisis. Many people in the region see Dubai as a safe haven and have moved their money and themselves to the city.

I have written all the above because I believe the fundamentals are very strong for Dubai and the UAE.

Now back to the property market 


The current boom in property in Dubai is caused by demand being way ahead of supply. The demand has been strong because of all the reasons mentioned above. 

There are tens of thousands of new people entering Dubai every month of which an increasingly large percentage has the ability to buy property in the city. In the past, most buyers have been cash buyers, but now this is changing as more and more people take out mortgages here. Thus many more salaried employees have the ability to buy property.


Back in March the government reported an increase in population in Dubai of 292,000 for 2006, thus increasing the total to 1.422 million source: 

http://www.uaeinteract.com/docs/Dubai_population_makes_big_surge/24196.htm

which is just over 24,000 a month. 

On top of this there are an increasing number of non-residents buying property for investment purposes. I don’t have any figures from a national point of view, but from my own company, I can state that over 65% of our buyers are non-resident expats looking to invest.

If we assume 10,000 people a month are buying (from people coming here to live) and with 2.5 years to go until 2010, that means that 300,000 people will want new homes. If we assume that there will be 2.5 people per property then they would need 120,000 properties for end-users.

However we also have investors (ex-pats and locals) who buy multiple units for investment to flip or too ultimately rent out which will absorb a large percentage of these units. If we assume another 5,000 units are bought every month by investors then that is another 150,000 units snapped up in the market over the next 2.5 years.

This gives demand for 270,000 units over the next 2.5 years. But this figure does not take into account any growth in the number of people coming to Dubai or investing from outside. Personally I think these figures will grow substantially.

I don’t think these figures are unrealistic although of course I don’t know for certain. As a company we have had a continuous trend in growth for the last 2 years and every month we have exceeded the previous month in terms of sales. People have been expecting a slow down (or a burst of the bubble) but it hasn’t happened yet.



What about the supply side?

I have heard and read through various sources that between now and 2010 there will be anywhere between 150,000 and 300,000 more units introduced into the market with projects like Palm Jumeirah, Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Lake Towers etc etc.

It sounds a lot but there are some major issues in Dubai. The cost of materials and labour has risen and have caused huge problems with developers by giving them cash flow problems. There are not enough contractors in Dubai to carry out the work that has been announced let alone what is still on the table. Projects have been delayed and I personally suspect that we will see the number of units supplied at the lower end of the range mentioned above. In addition a new law being proposed in Dubai will mean that developers will have to hold investor’s money in escrow and cannot use this money unless certain criteria have been met. So developers will have to fund more construction by themselves which I am sure will have a huge impact on the number of projects announced.


So it is my opinion that we see continued strong growth in the market at least until 2010. It is impossible to predict any further with any certainty.

However markets work in cycles and these strong growth rates will not be seen forever. There is always an adjustment which will come one day. 

When it does come, I believe it will not be a burst bubble but more like a slow puncture. The market will not collapse but eventually supply and demand will equalise and we will see slower growth and a more stable environment.


Now after saying all that, it is important to look at the individual projects in Dubai and the UAE, their location, the price you are paying, the facilities etc. 

I will try and answer that in my next posting.

Please feel free to comment on the above and these are my views only.


----------



## dm10

thank you pcheeseman. very thourough and clear informations. my only question is, have you got any thoughts on investing in sport city and dubailand on general? thanks.


----------



## IISinbadII

Thanks *pcheesman*. Indeed a very comprihensive answer. 
I am looking forward to hear your views regarding different projects and locations. Esp. your views on Dubai Marina, Burj Dubai area, JLT, Dubailand and others.


----------



## muffassa

does any one know about the restrictions imposed by dmcc on the nature of business that one can have in the jlt

i have heard rumors which r not good ?

can any one help please ?


----------



## sameerl

Mufassa:

Check out the website www.jlt.ae It spells out the criteria of businesses (both core, which is defined as commodities businessess, and non core, of which criteria are given) which will be permitted in the jlt freezone business district.


----------



## Morrismarina

rsm said:


> Hi Folks, could do with some advice. Have spent 2 years lurking on here before i took the plunge and bought at the point in the marina. Unfortunately my personal situation has now changed and it looks as though my getaway paradise isn't meant to be. I bought one of the marina facing type 1a? 1 bedroom flats. I bought on a lengthy payment plan and have paid all the big payments, i now only pay a few thousand a 1/4.
> 
> If i phoned dubai select on monday how much of my initial investment would i get back. I'm thinking worst case my inital investment minus admin charges. Best case ?
> 
> Thanks


I didn't think DS did the 15 year payment plan on The Point, thought it was 5 years max ?

If DS offer you anything less than your original investment (or you can't find a buyer at a premium ) please PM me as I might be interested in giving you your investment back so at least you don't lose out.


----------



## rsm

Morrismarina said:


> I didn't think DS did the 15 year payment plan on The Point, thought it was 5 years max ?
> 
> If DS offer you anything less than your original investment (or you can't find a buyer at a premium ) please PM me as I might be interested in giving you your investment back so at least you don't lose out.


Yes it is 5 years. I'll pm you after i've spoken with them.


----------



## agod

Pcheesman

Interesting view, and very like my own, another thing about Dubai, which a lot of people forget, when they moan about the charges in Dubai, is the Ruler is paying for the infastructure to be built, no tax on it's occupants yet, and when there is it will not be swingeing like it is here or the USA.

I am selling my interests in the Uk and abroad, and will be joining you soon, as soon as that Marinascape is built, just can't wait to get out of this place, and go somewhere that still has family values, integrity, and morals.

ALan


----------



## rexdmx

Dubai's property market is far from a bubble burst 
By Duraid Al Baik, Foreign Editor
Published: July 10, 2007, 00:15


For Simon Azzam, chief executive of Union Properties (UP), the growth curve of Dubai's property market has a long way to go before it reaches its peak. 

"Dubai's housing market is still at its infancy and it is very early to predict 'a bubble burst'," he told Gulf News. 

One of five people who launched UP almost 20 years ago, Azzam has seen the spurt of construction activity in the booming emirate and his company grow to become a leading developer. 

He says there will be growing need for more real estate development in Dubai and the time for a declining trend of property price has not come yet. 

UP, which was worth Dh1 million at the time of establishment, has recorded an unprecedented growth in assets in the past 20 years. Now, the total value of its shares exceed Dh3.8 billion. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The company boasts "green community" as its trade mark. 

Lacking sophistication

In Azzam's view, Dubai's young market suffers a lack of sophistication. Studies on the property market are still rare or lack the depth required to forecast trends, he says. "This depth will come in the coming years as they [studies] will be in high demand.".

But even this doesn't seem to be the immediate problem. "Now, the demand for different types of properties is still very high, and thus the need for a variety of products is below what the developers can offer. In future, developers will definitely need to know more information about the market," he says.

The future need, according to Azzam, is to have exact statistics, for example, of the need of office units, hotel rooms, etc. This scientific approach will replace the reaction of developers to market demand. 

"The lack of transparency might result in excess production of certain types of units in the market," he warns.

While he rules out the idea of the market suffering a bubble burst, he warns that saturation might come as a result of misinterpretation of some indicators in the market. 

"For instance, the market has started to appreciate the difference in quality and developers will soon find themselves not being able to sell anything at any price. This is a positive development, and we have to reinforce it," he says. 

"There will be a balance at some stage in the market, and a fair grading of apartments and properties based on their quality, location, culture etc. will eventually become the norm in the market. What is happening now is more of a mismatch; all apartments on offer are going out at the same price regardless of specifications other than their area. This is wrong, and is not going to last," he adds.

According to him, the real estate industry is currently undergoing phenomenal changes and the services offered by developers and property management companies will distinguish them in the the future. 

"Property users, whether they were owners or tenants will become powerful, and dictate their needs on managements" he says.

"The phenomenon of overpricing and over promising will vanish soon. It will become difficult for a developer to sell his property at a price higher than its actual value. Certain areas in Dubai - based on location, culture and services - will be appreciated better in the market and properties in such areas will get extra points by customers," he adds.

Quality matters

Moreover, developers will need to invest in the building materials they are using. Their reputation and image will be judged very much on the durability and functionality of their projects, so the price of their properties will depend mainly on their history in the market, according to Azzam.

So is it a good time now to buy in Dubai? Azzam's answer is that purchasing a property in Dubai is still considered cheap compared to other markets. 

"The market has not stabilised yet and there could be a regulating process of prices in different areas," he says.

While he believes that Dubai has a shortage in villas since they are in high demand, the apartments market suffers from a mismatch. 

However, Azzam sees the market on the path of continuous development, which comes in line with Dubai's sky high ambition to the become the number one city in the world with greater emphasis on environment issues. 

"There are parameters that are set by the government. Developers like UP have to work within those parameters. If we ask whether we have achieved the goal of becoming the number one city in the world and exploited technologies that focus on energy saving and protection of the environment, the answer is we are still at early stages and we have a long way to go," says Azzam.


----------



## muffassa

please explain investment is jlt better or in business bay and why ?


----------



## IISinbadII

muffassa said:


> please explain investment is jlt better or in business bay and why ?


I am not an expert but from what I have learnt from others is that *JLT* is better in the short term because the towers are all-most ready plus its a free zone and also near Jabl Ali port... so you can get returns earlier while there is a shortage of office space.

On the other hand *Business Bay *is better in the long term because it will be the business hub of dubai (in 3 -4 years when the towers complete), its near downtown.....and its possible that it could be declared a free zone too (?).

In short JLT is good now while BB completes and becomes the place to be for businesses.


----------



## mackie1964

agod said:


> Pcheesman
> 
> Interesting view, and very like my own, another thing about Dubai, which a lot of people forget, when they moan about the charges in Dubai, is the Ruler is paying for the infastructure to be built, no tax on it's occupants yet, and when there is it will not be swingeing like it is here or the USA.
> 
> I am selling my interests in the Uk and abroad, and will be joining you soon, as soon as that Marinascape is built, just can't wait to get out of this place, and go somewhere that still has family values, integrity, and morals.
> 
> ALan


Al;

Are you going to live there full time? Do you really think it is worth the move? I was very sure myself before but I am not so sure at the moment, need some encouragement, my Dubai vision has gone a bit blurred


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## agod

Hi Mackie
That's an easy one for me.
If you lived where I live in Brixtion on one side, Peckham, Herne Hill, and Norwood on the other, the lack of Police presence, only ever see them when the School turns out, and the gangs are Knifing one another, those Yellow incident boards, of Muggings, Robberies, Murders, the state of the roads, Ken Livingstone, the communist Mayor, who allows a St. Patricks day March, but not one for St. Goerges day, the Traffic calming measures and Cameras, watching every move you make, it more like Stalin's Russia, than a free society, and we have no kids, so yes easy to make, if you live where you do in Rural Cheshire perhaps not.

I did my homework before we made the decision, we traved the world looking, the wife has a brother in Durban S.Africa, but we all know what can happen there, Australia, just a hotter version of here, heavily taxed, and going the same way. New Zealand, if you like living in the Fifties, USA, we love the people and country and as you know have homes there, but Immigration to hard, and my Medical Condition, a non starter for Insurance, so we always loved Dubai, so that's were we are going, free residency, no tax, all the infasructure going in, care of the Ruler, exciting projects happening all the time, Real Estate set to be worth a fortune, nice law abiding city, and this is just the start, Dubailand goes in and there will be huge opportunities for all you youngsters to make a lot of money. 

Alan


----------



## yecabel

^^ ^^ ^^ 
i agree.
now-a-days in London, at least one teenager is stabbed every single week.


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## HarryKane

agod said:


> USA, we love the people and country and as you know have homes there


What kind of property tax, if any, do you pay over there as a non-resident? And, have you thought of Canada?


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## rexdmx

*just for your information*

Emaar gets stable Moody's rating 
Staff Report
Published: July 11, 2007, 00:02


Dubai: Moody's Investors Service, an international credit rating agency, has assigned long-term foreign and local currency ratings of A3 to Emaar Properties, the Dubai-based property developer. 

The outlook of the ratings is stable. This is the first time that Moody's has assigned ratings to Emaar. 

"Emaar's ratings are underpinned by the group's solid operational track record as Dubai's most established property company, as well as the good cash generation and low leverage that currently characterise its financial profile," said Philipp Lotter, Dubai/DIFC based Vice President - Senior Credit Officer and lead analyst for Emaar in a statement yesterday. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Emaar's A3 ratings reflect the group's intrinsic credit strength and the additional enhancement that can be derived from the financial strength of the Emirate of Dubai, which currently owns a 32 per cent stake in the company, which is likely to grow to over 50 per cent following a recent share-for-land transaction with Dubai Holding.

In its rating note, Moody's said that it views Emaar as a government-related issuer (GRI) and determines its rating in line with its methodology for such issuers.

Strong figures

Emaar's ratings reflect its leading position in the Dubai residential market, strong financial profile and conservative risk-management policy as well as the institutional support it benefits from, albeit mitigated by the cyclical nature of the homebuilding industry, the group's medium scale, large exposure to a single economy and ambitious expansion strategy.

"Ratings incorporate the potential softening of the Dubai property market, to which Emaar is heavily exposed despite growing international expansion", Lotter said

In addition to Emaar's market share Moody's said that it has factored in Emaar's conservative capital structure, thus resulting in robust interest cover and strong liquidity. The group's credit quality is also supported by its conservative risk-control guidelines aimed at ensuring that the amount of speculative development remains limited. 

Emaar's rating outlook is stable, reflecting Moody's view that, despite rising investments, the group will maintain a strong financial profile. Moody's has factored some financial flexibility into the rating but would expect Emaar's net debt to capital not to exceed 25 per cent, in line with the group's internal target.


----------



## agod

Hi Morris

I have been reading a book about property taxes as well, I lent it to my mate so I can't remember it's name at present, but it says if you leave these shores, the day after you go, you can sell all your property and not be liable for Capital gains, as you say, you must not return within 5 years then you would be liable, but it does not stop you coming back here for visits, I beleive 180 days, also a lot of people dont realise about Commercial property, if its let to a trade, it would get the business taper relief of 75% instead of 40, I think I am right but I will get it back from him, but there are some good ways you can reduce your gain right down to a reasonable amount, you being in the job will know better.

Al


----------



## Grubbman

Just stick the cash in an offshore portfolio bond which to set up you will need an address outside of the UK. One can set up a tax free at source pension plan as well, anyone interested in this please pm me and I can pass on more details.


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## High Times

^^ 

Offshore Portfolio Bonds can be set up using a UK address too.

Anyone with massive lump sums of cash to invest please feel free to pm me.

:wink2:


----------



## ccjr

*Spinning real estate online*

Spinning real estate online

Restate.ae is a new website to help people share information on the UAE's real estate sector. Rida Al Barazi, Development Manager, Spinbits, explains why interactivity is vital.

from http://www.ameinfo.com/127194.html


----------



## glover

*JBR Beach Clubs to open to the public in 2008*

In an interview today with Arabic Daily al-Bayan, Dubai Properties sales director Abdulraheem Mathloum said:

“The Beach Park will open its doors to residents of JBR in mid 2008, and the park and its facilities will be open to visitors for a low fee. It is just natural that we set low fees so that visitors can enjoy the environment, security and the beach available in the Park. This is in line with all other beach facilities in Dubai, such as Almamzer Park; and will be in addition to offering membership in 4 beach clubs in JBR.”


----------



## High Times

^^ 

This is great news for the future tourist market IMO.


----------



## glover

indeed it is! a small fee will attract visitors from both the marina and outside the marina. which will boast business establishments in JBR and the marina, and left up prices of non-JBR apartments (as True Blue pointed out). buyers know now for certain that they have access to the beach at almost no cost!


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## DubaiDream

*Dubai mortages*

I spoke to a broker in London who specialises in Dubai Property Financing for UK residents. Acoording to him, there are no self cert / true buy to let / non status mortgatges available for UK residents on Dubai Properties. According to him, all existing lenders (including the Barclays Buy to Let product) need some form of income certification to support the application and lending multiples. 

However, if anyone out there is aware of a self cert/non-status/true buy to let product, i would be interested from hearing from them.

Cheers


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Dubai Select offer a 15 year non-status buy to let product on The Torch and Bay Central.


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## DubaiDream

Cheers Steve, just checked out their website.

Really want to get a villa though - somewhat concerned about the oversupply of apartments.


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## Dubai_Steve

They are both great locations. Don't think you will have a problem with either of them for investment purposes.
Torch is better value at the moment I think, if there is any availability with good views.


----------



## Morrismarina

Where exactly will the Beach Park be located ??


----------



## Alipalipoo

I am about to pay a deposit on a Project In Jumeirah Village called Al Muhra 2 and I can't find any information about this project on the internet. Does anyone know anything about this Project, please write back urgently.


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## glover

Morrismarina said:


> Where exactly will the Beach Park be located ??


here.


Shot at 2007-07-23


----------



## Krazy

so close to MP :banana:


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## Dubai_Steve

^^ Will you be able to get access Krazy ?


----------



## True Blue

^^Anyone can gain access by paying the addmission fee. It's now looking like the JBR residents will be paying also. I am sure alot were led to believe that the beach park was for their exclusive use and was free.

Good news for the marina in general and better news for properties located on the island with easy access to the park. Properties in the immediate vicinity should receive a boost in their premiums


----------



## High Times

^^ 

This is fantastic news for all Marina investors. A great selling point to be within walking distance of good quality beach facilities.

Glover - any idea of pricing ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

hmm, a long walk from the tallest block though


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## glover

since Dubai Properties compared the admission fee of the Beach Park to that of al-Mamzer Park, i checked al-Mamzer rates. Admission to al-Mamzer is only AED 5 per person. Can't see the Beach Park being more than AED 10 per person, since the Sales Director of Dubai Properties described the fee as "small" in his interview with the Arabic daily al-Bayan!!


----------



## foxy

Thanks Glover for the map. I would be amazed if there wasn't a bus service or a water taxi to get around the marina.


----------



## Imre

*Burj Dubai prices climb*


The cost of buying into the Burj Dubai has increased by almost 25% in the past couple of months, with prices likely to go higher, Coldwell Banker CEO Hisham El Far told Emirates Today. Residential space in the world's tallest tower is selling for Dhs4,000-6,000 per sqft, while commercial space is fetching Dhs5,000-8,000 per sqft. Another source said prices were increasing as more floors were added. The tower will have a mix of residences, corporate suites and the Armani Hotel & Residences.
(ameinfo)


----------



## kano

True Blue said:


> ^^Anyone can gain access by paying the addmission fee. It's now looking like the JBR residents will be paying also. I am sure alot were led to believe that the beach park was for their exclusive use and was free.
> 
> Good news for the marina in general and better news for properties located on the island with easy access to the park. Properties in the immediate vicinity should receive a boost in their premiums


No we are not going to pay for the beach park only the beach clubs.If we had to pay for the beach park then there is really no beach area for jbr residents and would be in the same position as marina apartment owners .


----------



## DubaiDream

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Dubai Select offer a 15 year non-status buy to let product on The Torch and Bay Central.


My initial thoughts on the financing product Steve are positive, however I have huge concerns about the stability/credibility of Dubai Select and their lack of development (or any) experience.


----------



## rexdmx

*from ameinfo*

Emaar has warned property owners at its developments against short-lease letting of properties, Emirates Today reported. The developer has sent a circular to residents of communities such as the Greens and Springs in Dubai advising that short-term lets - or holiday lets - were not allowed under the terms of their sales agreement. Master developers make their own rules on how their communities are managed as there is no federal law on the subject, a property consultant said.


----------



## rexdmx

In January 2006, the Dubai Property column asked the question whether buying was still a good idea, and concluded that, 'from a pure investment point of view, it is now harder to make a case for buying Dubai property.' But this was still a tough call. 
AME Info explained: 'There is a large oversupply of property of certain types - mainly middle to up-market apartments - due in 2007, and this is almost certain to lower rentals and at the very least keep nominal Dubai property prices contained at present levels. 

'For somebody intending to make Dubai their long-term home then buying is down to three factors: saving on rent; using a house as a savings policy; and the pleasure of being able to do what you want with your own home, subject only to planning constraints.' 

Indeed the waning investment case for Dubai property was underlined by a new house price index published in early 2006 from the Investment Boutique modeled on the UK's well respected Halifax House Price. It showed that 2005 was a tale of two markets, with villas performing substantially better than apartments. 


Villas outperform
In fact, the average price per square foot of a Dubai villa improved by 31 per cent over the 12 month period. But the the average price of apartments fell by 10 per cent in the first half of 2005, and then rebounded back in the second half, to close pretty much exactly where it started. 

However, 2006 was not a bad year for Dubai real estate as it turned out. Delays in the delivery of new projects continued to push back the date of likely oversupply, and the long-awaited Dubai Property Law was finally decreed. 

This meant that for the first time foreigners could register properties under own names in the Dubai Land Department. And if the latter conjures up images of Dickensian title deeds think again; this department offers the very latest in electronic land and property title registration. 

As AME Info noted, 'Previously buyers held a contract of sale from the developer which allowed transfer of ownership only through the developer, with an agreement in the contract that a full and unencumbered freehold title would be granted on the property as soon as it became available. 

Indeed, the biggest practical impact may be felt in the local mortgage market rather than the re-sale market.' 


Construction delays
But in the spring of 2006 the biggest factor in the local property market was a shortage of completed property and longer and longer construction delays. 

As we pointed out: 'A brief glance through the ever-thick pages of the Gulf News property sections, and there are three of them, confirms that price levels are up in 2006. If you look at apartments in The Greens or villas in The Meadows you will find that 10 per cent is about the going rate of house price inflation so far this year. 

'How can this be explained? Well we are looking at completed property, available for occupation, and not one of the many towers emerging from the ground in the Dubai Marina and Jumeirah Lake Towers district. 

'Yields on Dubai villas of 7.5 per cent compare very favorably with 2-3 per cent available in more mature markets like the UK, and are therefore attractive to investors who will drive prices higher and rental returns downwards.


----------



## glover

*Dubai issues escrow account law for property sector*

Gulf News

By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: July 25, 2007, 16:44

Dubai: Payments towards ‘off plan’ property purchases in Dubai will be protected in specially managed accounts after a law was issued this week by Dubai Government.

The eagerly-awaited ‘Law No. 8 concerning Guarantee Accounts of Real Estate Development in the Emirate of Dubai’ has now come into effect after being published in the Official Gazette.

The law applies to any company or individual receiving ‘off plan’ payments for property that is not yet completed. However, at this early stage only properties that are launched from this week onwards will be subject to the law, according to Dubai Land Department.

Developers launching new residential or commercial multi-storey buildings and compounds will now have to apply to Dubai Land Department to open a guarantee account, which are known more commonly as trust or escrow accounts.

To do this they must submit certain documents, including the title deed of the plot being developed, approved architectural designs and layouts, a letter of approval from a master developer and a trade license.

If these papers are in order, the trust account will be opened according to a written agreement between a developer and the Land Department.

Money paid by buyers or financiers towards properties will then be deposited in a special account opened under the name of the property development in an approved bank.

Dubai Islamic Bank (DIB) on Wednesday acted swiftly to launch the Al Islami Escrow Account, the first such service in the region designed specifically for real estate developers.

After setting up the account, the issue of how they are managed and when money is released becomes crucial.

The law states that developers must apply to the trust account manager to release money from the account. The developer must first produce a certificate from a consultant working on the property that an agreed stage of construction has been reached.

The trust account manager then must inform the Land Department about the sums being released to the developer.

Even when a project is complete the developer will still not be given access to all the payments. The Land Department will keep 10 per cent of the project value for one year after completion until all units are registered in the names of buyers and title deeds are issued in their names.

Fines of no less than Dh200,000 will be handed out if certain requirements within the law are not kept.

*FULL TEXT OF THE LAW*

LAW NO. (8)

CONCERNING GUARANTEE ACCOUNTS OF REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENTS IN THE EMIRATE OF DUBAI

We, Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum - Ruler of Emirate of Dubai

After perusal of:

- United Arab Emirates Federal Law no. (5) of 1985, as amended concerning Civil Transactions,

- Law no. (7) of 2006 concerning Real Estate Registration in the Emirate of Dubai,

- Rule no. (3) of 2006 concerning allocation of areas where foreigners can own properties in the Emirate of Dubai,

Do hereby promulgate the following law:

Chapter 1
Definitions & General Provisions

Article (1)

This Law may be cited as (Law no. ( ) of 2006 concerning Guarantee Accounts of Real Estate Developments in the Emirate of Dubai.

Definitions

Article (2)

In implementation of the provisions of this Law, the following terms and phrases shall have the meanings appearing parallel thereto, unless otherwise provided by the context.

Emirate : Emirate of Dubai

Department: Department of Lands

President: President of the Department

Director: Director General of the Department

Register: Register prepared by the Department for registration of developers.

Guarantee Account: Guarantee account of a property development in which sums paid by buyers of units on the plan or by financiers of developments are deposited.

Concerned Authorities: concerned government or semi-government licensing authorities.

Developer: A natural or corporate person licensed to carry on property development business in the Emirate, including a main or minor developer.

Property Development: Projects involving construction of multi-storeyed buildings or compounds for residential or commercial purposes.

Property: Everything that is permanently fixed in its space and cannot be shifted without destruction or alteration in appearance.

Unit: A partitioned part of a property which a developer sells to third parties.

Article (3)

Provisions of this Law shall be applicable to a who sells units on the plan of the Emirate’s property developments that are not yet completed, whether under or in the process of construction, and who receives payments from buyers or financiers against such units before completion of the developments.

Article (4)

A special register known as (Register of Developers) shall be prepared at the Department to register names of developers licensed to carry on property development business in the Emirate. No developer may carry on such business in the Emirate unless being registered in the Register.

Article (5)

A developer shall not advertise in local or foreign media, or participate in local or foreigner exhibitions, for promotion of sale of units or properties on the plan or in the process of construction in the Emirate, until having obtained a written permit from the Department. The Director shall issue the necessary decisions to regulate the terms and conditions of advertising in media and participation in exhibitions.

Chapter 2
Establishing A Guarantee Account

Article (6)

Without prejudice to provisions of Article (3) of this Law, a developer wishing to sell units on the plan shall apply to the Department in order to open a guarantee account and shall enclose the following documents:

1- Trade license and certificate of registration of membership in Dubai Chamber of Commerce & Industry.
2 - Title deed of the plot intended for development.
3 - Letter of approval in relation to the development and issued by the main developer.
4 - Architectural designs and layouts approved by concerned authorities and the main developer.

5 - A balance sheet approved by the development’s consultant about sums payable to creditors of the development.
6 - Building permit issued by concerned authorities
7 - Copy of a sale contract between the developer and the buyer.

Article (7)

A guarantee account shall be established according to a written agreement between a developer and the Department through which sums paid by buyers of units on the plan, or paid by financiers, shall be deposited in a special account opened under the name of the property development in an approved bank in the Emirate.

The agreement shall determine the conditions of account management, the rights and obligations of contractual parties and other terms and obligations.

Chapter 3
Management of a Guarantee Account

Article (8)

The Department shall enter into a contract with an approved, experienced and qualified auditor to manage a guarantee account under its supervision. Spending from deposited sums shall be according to the conditions of contract and the provisions of this Law, and the guarantee account shall be governed by criteria of financial and accounting control that are in force in this regard.

Article (9)

Depositors or their representatives may examine their own accounting records and request copies thereof. The representative of official authorities may also examine the records as well as obtain copies thereof.

Article (10)

In the event that a developer mortgages a development to obtain a loan from financing establishments or companies he shall have to deposit the mortgage sum in the guarantee account. Disposal of a mortgage sum shall be according to provisions of this Law.

Article (11)

A developer may apply to the auditor for spending from a guarantee account after submitting a certificate issued by the consultant of a development describing completed stage and the requirement of a subsequent stage. The auditor shall have to inform the Department in writing about sums paid to the developer.

Article (12)

Without prejudice to Article (11), an auditor shall disburse payments due to a developer within 7 working days from the date of request for payment or the date of completion of required documents.

Article (13)

The Department shall keep 10% of the value of a development in the guarantee account for a period of one year after a developer has obtained a certificate of completion. The held sums shall not be spent until the units are registered in names of buyers and title deeds are issued under their names.


Chapter 4
Penalties

Article (14)

Without prejudice to any penalties provided for in any other law, a penalty of incarceration and payment of a fine not less than 200,000 Dirhams, or either one of them, shall be imposed on anyone who:

1 - Carries on property development business in the Emirate without a license.

2 - Submits false documents or misstatements to concerned authorities in order to obtain a license for carrying on property development business.

3 - Offers to knowingly sell units in bogus property developments.

4 - Embezzles, uses or squanders payments delivered to him for the purposes of construction of property developments, and misappropriates such payments.

5 - Any auditor who deliberately prepares a false report about the result of an audit he conducts on a developer’s financial position, or conceals significant facts from his report.

6 - Any consultant who knowingly approves false documents about a property development.

Article (15)

If proved that a developer is unable to execute a development, the Department shall take necessary legal actions to protect rights of third parties.

Article (16)

1 - A developer shall be cancelled from the Register in any of the following events:

1 - If he declares his bankruptcy.
2 - If he cancels his license.
3 - If carries on prohibited business in the Emirate.
4 - If he repetitively violates provisions of Article (5) of this Law.

Chapter 5
Final Provisions

Article (17)

Existing developers at the time when provisions of this Law are applicable shall adjust their status in accordance with the provisions herein.

Article (18)

The Department may collect management fees against services offered in accordance with this Law.

Article (20)

This Law shall be published in the Official Gazette and shall be effective from the date of publication.


Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum
Ruler of Emirate of Dubai

Promulgated in Dubai on Tuesday 10th of October 2006, corresponding to 18th of Ramadan 1427 AH.

- The above stated amendments on the draft law was made on 12/12/2000.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

DubaiDream said:


> My initial thoughts on the financing product Steve are positive, however I have huge concerns about the stability/credibility of Dubai Select and their lack of development (or any) experience.


The quality of the work done on the Torch so far is outstanding and proceeding at a very fast pace now. DCE carry out the work not Dubai Select. They simply manage the collection of investors finance and channel it to DCE. No worry at all in my eyes. Dubai Select were also the first to introduce escrow security for investors in Bay Central. Zero risk.


----------



## Hanna

*Escrow accounts*

Hi All

This must have been the reason for Damac to launch a new
project a week,they don't need to escrow anything in the past and
I think you will see far fewer launches in the future when they have 
to abide by the law.:cheers:


----------



## Krazy

the article teases that existing off plan projects might be forced to abide by the new law in the future.. if that happens, where will the damac cowboys run to?


----------



## rexdmx

DIB unveils region's first escrow trust account service 
Staff Report
Published: July 25, 2007, 22:58


Dubai: Dubai Islamic Bank (DIB) yesterday announced the launch of the Al Islami Escrow Account, the first escrow 'trust' account service in the region designed specifically for real estate developers. 

The new service will contribute to further protecting investors and enhancing confidence in the UAE's real estate sector. 

The announcement was made during a ceremony where DIB and the Dubai Lands Department signed an agreement governing the general trust account conditions for real estate developments. 

The agreement was signed by Sultan Butti Bin Mijrin, Director General of Dubai's Land Department, and Sa'ad Abdul Razak, CEO of DIB Group. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Al Islami Escrow Account service will help property developers manage their project receivables in accordance with the new regulations of Law No. 8 pertaining to the trust accounts for real estate developments in Dubai, issued by His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai. 

Guidance

The bank will provide guidance on the completion of the Land Department's formalities and requirements. The developers will benefit from the comprehensive information systems of the bank that will provide details on the status of payments received of the various units in their buildings.

Bin Mijrin said in a statement, "This agreement follows the issuance of Law No. 8, which reflects the level of maturity that the real estate sector has now achieved. The new law will enhance confidence in this vital sector and develop a strong basis for regulating the process of selling residential units and will protect the rights of buyers.

"Our agreement with DIB complements the regulations stated in Law No. 8 based on its considerable experience and significant role as a leading financial institution in the area of real estate development," he added.

Sa'ad Abdul Razak said: "We are delighted to announce the launch of this innovative product, which reflects DIB's premier position in the real estate development area. This experience provides us with the advantage of being the first bank to offer this trust account service across the region under the new law.

This product reflects DIB's vision to offer a host of tailor-made, value-added services to property developers, he said. 

Developers will be able to benefit from our expertise in managing their project receivables. The service will offer guidance on completion of Lands Department formalities, account opening services, as well as balance management services, he added.

Additional facilities

"The escrow product will also provide comprehensive services wherein developers can benefit from additional services offered by DIB, including managing contracts to sell residential units, as well as a detailed status of units in the customers' buildings, unit payments received, overdue payments at unit level and other services. 

A dedicated customer service centre will be a window to the know-how, services and expertise that DIB offers, allowing developers' requirements to be addressed in a prompt and efficient manner. 

DIB will also have an experienced team of in-house engineers to provide payment certificate verification services as per Land Department requirements," he concluded. 

DIB, established in 1975, is the first Islamic bank to have incorporated the principles of Islam in all its practices. The bank has recently announced the breaking of another world record by raising $3.52 billion sukuk for the Nakheel Group.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> ......................Dubai Select were also the first to introduce escrow security for investors in Bay Central. Zero risk.


The risk is reduced with an escrow certainly not as low a zero. If DS went bust then all the owners would become ordinary creditors. It is likely that DCE will have insisted on preferential creditor status before entering into a contract with DS. In that case they would be paid first. Any residual would then be distributed to the ordinary creditors. Remember though that if someone goes bust, its because they don't have enough money to pay the bills!!

Escrows protect you from fraud, someone emptying the account and running off, they don't protect you from a poorly run business.


----------



## rexdmx

*sorry if this doesnt belong here as i did not find a thread*

Boom time for UAE property 
Staff Report
Published: July 25, 2007, 22:58


Dubai: The UAE's real estate sector will hit Dh800 billion in three years, according to the organiser of Sharjah's first property exhibition.

Nawwaf Mohammad Obaid, director-general of Emirates Vision, organisers of the Sharjah International Investment and Real Estate Exhibition 'Acres Middle East 2007' added that the entire Gulf real estate sector is currently worth Dh1.5 trillion.

He said Sharjah is becoming an increasingly important real estate investment destination thanks to its 'available resources and sophisticated infrastructure'.

Trade and tourism

According to statistics released from the Sharjah Commerce and Tourism Development Authority, the trade and tourism sector has gone through a major leap with the construction of new shopping malls, hotels and hotel apartments. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Figures show that 15 new hotels opened in the first half of 2007, bringing the total number of hotels in Sharjah to 89. About 1.3 million tourists visited the emirate in 2006, compared to 600,000 in 2001. 

Acres Middle East 2007 is the first ever event specialised in property investment and finance to be held in Sharjah, said Obeid. The event, which will bring together property developers, investors and other related companies, will take place from December 25 to 27 at Expo Sharjah Centre


----------



## rexdmx

Law reduces risk in realty investment 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: July 25, 2007, 22:58


Dubai: Payments towards "off plan" property purchases in Dubai will be protected in specially managed accounts after a law was issued this week by Dubai government.

The eagerly-awaited "Law No. 8 concerning Guarantee Accounts of Real Estate Development in the Emirate of Dubai" has now come into effect after being published in the Official Gazette. 

The law applies to any company or individual receiving 'off plan' payments for property that is not yet completed. However, at this early stage only properties that are launched from this week onwards will be subject to the law, according to the Dubai Land Department.

Developers launching new residential or commercial multi-storey buildings and compounds will now have to apply to the Dubai Land Department to open a guarantee account, more commonly known as a trust or escrow account. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Documents

To do this, they need to submit certain documents, including the title deed of the plot being developed, approved architectural designs and layouts, a letter of approval from a master developer and a trade licence.

If these papers are in order, the trust account will be opened according to a written agreement between a developer and the Land Department.

Money paid by buyers or financiers towards properties will then be deposited in a special account opened under the name of the property development in an approved bank. 

Dubai Islamic Bank (DIB) yesterday acted swiftly to launch the Al Islami Escrow Account. After setting up the account, the issue of how they are managed and when money is released becomes crucial.

The law states that developers must apply to the trust account manager to release money from the account. The developer must first produce a certificate from a consultant working on the property that an agreed stage of construction has been reached. 

The trust account manager then must inform the Land Department about the sums being released to the developer.

Foolproof

Even when a project is complete, the developer will still not be given access to all the payments. The Land Department will keep 10 per cent of the project value for one year after completion until all units are registered in the names of buyers and title deeds are issued in their names.

Defaulters faces fines of up to Dh200,000.


----------



## rexdmx

Law to protect realty buyers 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: July 25, 2007, 22:58


Dubai: The chance of cowboy developers raking in buyers' payments for new property and running away are now remote after an eagerly-awaited law was issued this week, government officials said.

Click here to see the full text of the law (pdf)

Under Law No 8 on Guarantee Accounts (commonly known as trust or escrow accounts), people buying properties in Dubai off plan will make their payments into special accounts managed by banks, instead of directly into property developers's pockets. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Government officials say money in these accounts will be released to developers only when certain stages of construction are completed, encouraging companies to keep building work on time and easing fears that they will gather payments and flee the country before a brick has been laid.

"It's a major step towards consumer protection in Dubai. We want people from all over the world to have trust in Dubai when buying off plan," said Mohammad Sultan Thani, director of development and marketing administration at the Land Department.

Industry analysts and many established developers have long called for trust accounts on the grounds that they will add legitimacy to a market where use of buyers' payments is currently unregulated.

A draft law was finalised in April and submitted to Dubai Government for comment and approval before being published in the Official Gazette this week.

Overseeing mechanism

Dubai Islamic Bank yesterday launched its Al Islami Escrow Account, the first such account service in the region designed specifically for real estate developers. Several more banks will follow suit, and the Land Department will oversee the system, said Thani.

An area for concern during the law's consultation phase was the impact it would have on small developers. Companies who lack large financial resources and struggle to secure bank finance tend to rely on money generated from off plan sales to fund their projects.

From now on all developers launching new projects have to produce certificates showing that building work has reached certain pre-selected stages before trust account managers give them access to buyers' money. "This could weed out smaller private developers operating in Dubai," said Iseeb Rehman, managing director of UAE-based property consultants Sherwoods.


----------



## Hanna

Krazy said:


> the article teases that existing off plan projects might be forced to abide by the new law in the future.. if that happens, where will the damac cowboys run to?


Hi Krazy


They will run with a hell a lot of money and bad debts hanging over them,I think that guy Sajwani the owner, new fine well what he was doing when his main man Desperate Dan Riddoch WAS LAUNCHING new projects every week.
I have spoken to some of the main players in this company and I didn't get good vibes from any of it,it was a pity I did not talk to them before i invested or I would have ran the proverbial mile.
I will be the happiest person alive when they hand me the keys for my apartment in Ocean Heights then they can go and swing on it 'and never go near them again':cheers: 

P.S 

The only saving grace is he is supposed to be well in with all the Dubai leaders and it would be seen as a serious embarrasement if it went down 
the tubes.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Emaar has warned property owners at its developments against short-lease letting of properties, Emirates Today reported. The developer has sent a circular to residents of communities such as the Greens and Springs in Dubai advising that short-term lets - or holiday lets - were not allowed under the terms of their sales agreement. Master developers make their own rules on how their communities are managed as there is no federal law on the subject, a property consultant said.


----------



## yecabel

Dubai_Steve said:


> Emaar has warned property owners at its developments against short-lease letting of properties, Emirates Today reported. The developer has sent a circular to residents of communities such as the Greens and Springs in Dubai advising that short-term lets - or holiday lets - were not allowed under the terms of their sales agreement. Master developers make their own rules on how their communities are managed as there is no federal law on the subject, a property consultant said.


emaar is th master developer of dubai marina, will the above restrictions affect this area as well as those mentioned??


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## Dubai_Steve

No this would only affect Emaar properties such as Marina Promenade and not the entire Marina master development.


----------



## DubaiDream

Although it is positive that Dubai Select have managed to get Marriot to sign up as a hotel operator in Bay Central. I'm thinking of going for a 3 bed marina view but would prefer an apartment in JBR


----------



## Dubai_Steve

You will be close to the new Beach Park so will have beach access anyway. Bay Central will be more exclusive than JBR.


----------



## Rider

*Apartments near the Marina Metro stop*

Does anyone know of any towers with reasonably priced apartments available (off-plan or being built) which are near the future Marina metro stop.

Many Thanks


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I am wondering why the upper marina, district 10 area has so many towers planned for the 'tallest block'. Other locations in the central marina seem better because of the marina mall, beach park and JBR walk. The only thing that may change this is the unknown emaar development in front of the torch and marina heights. Hope this will be something special to boost that location.


----------



## Rider

Given that the original design included an arcade and boutique hotel, it sounds like something lifestyle related was/is being considered for this plot. This would be ideal given the volume of residents in the surrounding supertalls. 

Then there was talk of Marina Phase II going here.

Who knows...


----------



## Tom_Green

What`s the ration between commercial towers, residential towers and hotels in Dubai?
It Frankfurt it would be like this 10 Com 1 Resi. 1 hotel.


----------



## Morrismarina

DubaiDream said:


> Although it is positive that Dubai Select have managed to get Marriot to sign up as a hotel operator in Bay Central. I'm thinking of going for a 3 bed marina view but would prefer an apartment in JBR


Don't forget that in JBR you can't rent out short term (holiday lets) whereas in Bay Central this will be no problem. Even if you don't plan to let out your apartment, others may wish to do so, this IMO is a great bonus that will increase the value when you come to sell.


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## rexdmx

actually i read in the papers quite a while ago that it was 2 residential to one commercial which was seen as bad...can't recall properly though...




Tom_Green said:


> What`s the ration between commercial towers, residential towers and hotels in Dubai?
> It Frankfurt it would be like this 10 Com 1 Resi. 1 hotel.


----------



## DubaiDream

Cheers Morrismarina, i just love the direct sea views from JBR; in years to come there wont be many on-shore developments which will be able to offer those views; However,lots of sea view units will be available in the palms


----------



## nwusaad

Does anybody know what banks provide mortgages for Tameer projects for non-UAE residents. 
I am looking to purchase one of their properties in Umm Al Quwain. Most of those I checked dont offer financing for tameer or dont finance properties outside of Dubai.
Thanks


----------



## Morrismarina

DubaiDream said:


> Cheers Morrismarina, i just love the direct sea views from JBR; in years to come there wont be many on-shore developments which will be able to offer those views; However,lots of sea view units will be available in the palms


Yes if it's great sea views you want then JBR is the place.:banana:


----------



## dubaiote

which banks provide mortgage for tameer acquisitions? More specifically in the al salam city?Thanks guys


----------



## rexdmx

Emaar cuts certificate charges by 90% 
By Daniel Bardsley, Staff Reporter
Published: July 28, 2007, 23:03


Dubai: Developer Emaar has made a major cut to a controversial charge paid by homeowners who want to sell their properties.

The company has slashed by 90 per cent the cost of issuing a Notification of Completion certificate (NOC), decreasing the fee from Dh5,000 to Dh500.

The move follows ongoing complaints from property owners that Emaar was charging a much higher fee than other developers.

Homeowners who already hold the title deeds for their property must provide Dubai Land Department with the NOC when transferring ownership to another party.

Verifying costs

Developer Nakheel previously charged Dh1,000 for an NOC, but earlier this year cut the figure to Dh500. The price of the NOC covers, for example, the cost of verifying that there are no outstanding issues, such as unpaid service charges, relating to the property.

However, homeowners described the Dh5,000 fee as excessive, particularly as they said they had to provide original receipts showing that the service charge had been paid in advance before the sale could go ahead.

In a statement to Gulf News, Mohammad Ahmad Al Humairi, property transfer manager for Emaar Properties, said: "Emaar is committed to the continuous improvement of both our products and services, which is in line with our focus on customer satisfaction.

"This initiative is aimed at providing value-added services at nominal costs to our customers and will enable them to maximise their investments with us."

The Interim Steering Committee that represents residents of The Meadows and The Springs, both Emaar developments, welcomed the cut in the cost of an NOC


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## pcheesman

*My Property Investment Views*

Hi


I will try and answer some of the points raised from the responses from my earlier posts. 

First from High Times


_Hi Patrick,

Some interesting points that you make in your last post, most of which I agree with particularly in relation to your comments on the Palms.

With regard to Dubai Marina which I am mainly interested in from an investment point of view I would say that I disagree about your "sea facing apartment" comments, as I own apartments in other global locations and enjoy ones with sea views and marina views. Having a sea view is fine if you want to sit and stare out to sea all day but once the sun goes down life gets a little boring looking out into a dark nothingness. Whilst if your apartment is marina facing the views are 24 hour, interesting, well lit, and are never the same as marinas are typically a hive of activity both day and night. If you are looking to rent out your units for profit then I would suggest that most tenants, be it family holiday makers, or working ex-pats wont be in the apartment much during the day, when a sea view looks it’s best.

I am not saying that a sea view is of no value, as I know real estate agents the world over use it as a massive selling point. I just think that if you actually live in an apartment with a sea view for a week, then the same apartment with a completed marina view for a week and then had to choose which one to buy then in my experience the "marina view" wins hands down.

_

These are good points, but I personally have always considered sea views ad more valuable. In my experience in Dubai, these are the units that are always bought first and considered by most people to be the most valuable. Not everyone will feel that way of course and there will still be a demand for non sea view property.


Also your suggestion that;


_

"The towers such as Princess Tower, Elite Residence, Emirates Crown, Ocean Heights etc etc have the best views and quality."

This should be followed with a caveat that "the land between Al Sufouh road and the beach is potential for future development and could spoil views from the towers that you favour for their superior sea views.

Anyway just my thoughts, good to see some well informed non biased comments on this forum though._


This is a very good point. In fact I should have put that in my post. There are no 'local property searches' here in the UAE as they're in the UK. (This is where you can go to the local authority and check if someone is planning to build a 10 lane highway next to your property.)

I personally don't think they will build something directly in front as you have the Marina there. Plus most of these buildings have the Le Meridian in front and its extension.

Although you can never say never in this town 

I consider Trident to be my favourite private developer in the Marina, but if you look at their Waterfront Building (which is completed and excellent), you will see that a huge road junction is being built right next to it which is the back exit on to Sheikh Zayed Road. Those people in the swimming pool will have a lovely/noisey view of the cars racing by. I wonder if Trident new this would happen. Probably not.


In answer to worried1

I completely forgot about JLT  which I should be very ashamed about. Actually being a broker is Dubai is not that easy. There is so much out there, and being announced that it's impossible to keep track of everything. But I have no excuse for forgetting Jumeirah Lake Towers.


I like JLT. I think as a mixed project it is very attractive. It's a good location, has a freezone status, and will have all the usual facilities. We have seen major growth in the value of properties there, which I think will continue because people will want to live close to work due to the traffic problems there. I think commercial investment here is also strong due to the freezone status. I know that Dubai Internet/Media/Airport/Jebel Ali freezones have a huge backlog of applications to join, because the main problem is lack of office space. I expect the same in JLT. 


In answer to IISinbadII

I don't deal much with the Emaar buildings in the Dubai Marina so it is difficult for me to give an opinion.



Best wishes


Patrick


----------



## pcheesman

Hi there


Unfortunately at this time, there are no banks that provide finance for the Ala Salam City project from Tameer. Tameer uses Emirates Islamic Bank for most of its Dubai based projects.

I believe the problem with Al Salam City is that it is 99 year lease rather than freehold.

Regards


Patrick


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Buying properties and renting them out is a good and growing business in Dubai because the market here is developing and younger compared to those in the US and Europe and there is a dearth of hotel rooms for the growing number of business and leisure travellers.


"Dubai presents a very good potential market for those who want to engage in the buy-to-let property business," according to Tatjana Drief, manager for short-term rentals, Better Homes. 

She said the residential and commercial properties being leased out by Better Homes, a Dubai-based leading provider of real estate services, on a short-term basis of one-week to one-year has doubled to 140 from a year-ago level. She added that renting out a property on a weekly, monthly or yearly basis is 10-20 per cent more profitable than doing it on a long-term basis of, say, 25 years. 

Meanwhile, Drief said Better Homes has been making representations with the Dubai Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DTCM) on small companies and individuals engaged in the leasing out of properties that do not have the quality required by the government. 

"The government is taking a relevant measure to find out whether these so-called 'black sheep properties' offer clients the necessary facilities and adhere to acceptable standards in the property market," she said. "And Better Homes is in contact with the Dubai Government regarding this." 

She said Better Homes, which manages a mix of properties for their owners to be leased out, sees a significant revenue growth this year especially because of the high occupancy rate of hotels in Dubai and the influx of migrant workers and visitors. 

Dubai leads all major cities in the Middle East in terms of hotel room occupancy at 89.4 per cent, followed by Muscat at 84.7 per cent and Doha at 84.4 per cent, according to HotelBenchmark Survey done by Deloitte & Touch Middle East in April. Deloitte provides professional services and monitors 7,200 hotels in 420 markets across 140 countries. 

DTCM said UAE's population reached 4.2 million last year compared to 3.8 million in 2005. 

Saying that most Better Homes landlords have bought their property as an investment, Drief noted their desire to turn this into income-generating asset. She said it is a wise move for an owner to rent out his property, but wiser to do it through a management office, especially during the time that he is on vacation or out of the country, in order to generate further income. 

"This way the landlord's interest is protected and need not worry about finding a tenant for his property," said Drief, adding that Better Homes' professional fee is very reasonable for the services it offers. 

She said a short-term rent is also economical and a better alternative to expensive hotel rooms for travellers, especially families. For instance, a family visiting Dubai for a week may rent a fully-furnished two-bedroom apartment through Better Homes for Dh1,450 per night as compared to a hotel room of Dh1,200 per night. 

She also said that a short-term lease is suitable for business people who come to Dubai only for a week or months during the duration of their project. She said travellers are finding it increasingly difficult to book a hotel room in Dubai in short notice.


----------



## Tom_Green

I had a dream some days ago......

They build a Marina Diamond 6 in Tecom. I bought an apartment on the 13th floor. The view was not stunning but okay. I paid a little bit over 900.000 dirham for 2600square feet. 

Did i made a good deal in my dream?

I know this sounds stupid but i always asked myself in the dream: Am i doing the right thing? 
Can you help me


----------



## rexdmx

not bad...less than 400/sq ft. good investment in terms of price
u sure it was 2600 sq ft and not 260 sq ft!

when is it getting ready?
location? 

margin of safety is quite high so u r safe even in a downtown...




Tom_Green said:


> I had a dream some days ago......
> 
> They build a Marina Diamond 6 in Tecom. I bought an apartment on the 13th floor. The view was not stunning but okay. I paid a little bit over 900.000 dirham for 2600square feet.
> 
> Did i made a good deal in my dream?
> 
> I know this sounds stupid but i always asked myself in the dream: Am i doing the right thing?
> Can you help me


----------



## Tom_Green

rexdmx said:


> not bad...less than 400/sq ft. good investment in terms of price
> u sure it was 2600 sq ft and not 260 sq ft!
> 
> when is it getting ready?
> location?
> 
> margin of safety is quite high so u r safe even in a downtown...


I am 100% sure it was 2600 sq. I got a discount or something. The list price for such an apartment was over 1.2 mio dihram. 

The apartment was completed. I visited it. There was not much inside but the living room was really big. 

It was in Tecom. Close to the SZR and between the EMAAR Business Park and the BAVARIA EXECUTIVE SUITES.


----------



## rexdmx

there is a chance i may eat you alive if you dont buy this apartment!!!
its ready!!!
there is a splendid chance for a high upswing...

i know for example that other places like marina is more popular but what you are doing is the buffet style...you dont have to buy the glamorous investments just buy into the smart ones...

this is the smart one. it wins on price, the location is not bad at all. what is the building name..?

PS: 2600 SQFT!!!

damnit!! it's just a dream ..



Tom_Green said:


> I am 100% sure it was 2600 sq. I got a discount or something. The list price for such an apartment was over 1.2 mio dihram.
> 
> The apartment was completed. I visited it. There was not much inside but the living room was really big.
> 
> It was in Tecom. Close to the SZR and between the EMAAR Business Park and the BAVARIA EXECUTIVE SUITES.


----------



## IISinbadII

Tom_Green said:


> I am 100% sure it was 2600 sq. I got a discount or something. The list price for such an apartment was over 1.2 mio dihram.
> 
> The apartment was completed. I visited it. There was not much inside but the living room was really big.
> 
> It was in Tecom. Close to the SZR and between the EMAAR Business Park and the BAVARIA EXECUTIVE SUITES.


Did you buy directly it from the developer or in the re-sale market. Did you pay any transfer fee. And finally, did you take any *pictures*?


----------



## Krazy

* New agencies to monitor property laws and registration*



Dubai: The Dubai Land Department, the organisation that oversees the emirate's ballooning property sector, is undergoing a major restructuring process.

The department will create two agencies under its umbrella in an effort to cope with a tidal wave of freehold property registrations, as well as numerous additions to the emirate's regulatory framework.

It follows a decree issued yesterday by His Highness Shaikh Mohammad bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, which established the first new body affiliated to the Land Department - the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA).

The agency will oversee key regulations governing the property sector, including recent laws on real estate brokers, trust accounts, and upcoming rules on the responsibilities of Home Owners Associations (HOA).

A separate agency will be formed at a later date to deal exclusively with the ongoing registration of freehold title deeds in Dubai.

"The Land Department has two core businesses -- registration, and monitoring and regulating and the market. All regulation and monitoring will be handled by this new agency," said Land Department official Marwan Ahmad Bin Ghalita.

Sudhir Kumar, executive director, property division at Morison (UAE) Consulting, said the huge expansion of Dubai's real estate sector made the Land Department's move inevitable.

"Controlling the land registration process and overseeing regulations are huge jobs, so we were expecting this segregation," he said.

"It makes sense to split these tasks, which will bring in greater performance and efficiency that can only benefit the investor."

One of the agency's main roles will be to license and regulate real estate brokers in Dubai. The agency will also oversee the trust (escrow) accounts which were introduced last week to safeguard buyers' payments in special accounts.

Key roles

* Oversee operations of property developers, property management companies, financing institutions, brokers and owners' association.
* Responsible for registration and endorsement of lease contracts and licensing property development establishments.
* Responsible for approving financial institutions qualified to manage escrow accounts.
* Manage and supervise the works of Home Owners Associations and monitor property adverts.


----------



## rexdmx

Condominium Law is in highest stages of consideration 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: July 31, 2007, 23:12


Dubai: The all-important regulatory framework governing Dubai's property sector took a huge leap forward last week with the introduction of trust accounts safeguarding home buyer's payments for off plan purchases.

Attention is now focused on preparing the market for a long-awaited law which will dictate management of the common areas of housing developments. 

A draft of the Condominium Law (also known as Strata Law) was submitted to Dubai's highest authorities some time ago and is in the "highest stages" of consideration before official approval, said Dubai Land Department. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In countries where the law is established, developers hand over control and ownership of the common areas of building (such as pools, gyms, car parks and lifts) rather than only individual units. Currently in Dubai, many buyers legally own the actual unit they bought, but have no claim on common areas.

UAE Strata Global, a strata title management company operating in Dubai, warns that disputes between owners and developers over maintenance and service of common land will continue unless the law addresses the legal rights of owners' associations, the role of the developer after handover, and payment of service charges.

When eventually approved by Dubai government, the law is likely to divide common areas by the number of units and give each owner an equal share, said Dubai-based real estate agency Better Homes.

It will put building ownership, and therefore management and maintenance, into the hands of home owners who will ensure that these areas are properly managed and maintained. Each building will elect a committee, known as a Home Owners Association (HOA), to oversee these matters.

Better Homes said the committee will budget for all required maintenance work for the building or area, including an allowance for unforeseen issues. The total sum will be divided by the number of units and all owners will be asked to pay that sum as a service fee, the firm said.

Much stricter

In a move that will be much stricter than strata laws in other countries, Dubai government will introduce tough policies for fee payment, added Ryan Mahoney, managing director, Better Homes. He said owners who fail to make the necessary payments in a given period of time could face having their unit sold as a penalty.

In preparation for the introduction of the law, residents of Westside Marina Building, with the support of its developer Tulip Developments, have signed a joint submission from Better Homes and AUAE Strata Global to manage both the property and HOA of the building. 

The arrangement calls for Better Homes Property Management to be contracted in the pre strata law stages while Tulip developments remains owner of the common property. 

AUAE Strata Global will then step into a strata management role for the home owners, undertaking all duties required in relation to the strata law and its regulations, developing a framework to help them move forward towards strata title.


----------



## dubaiote

I am a non UAE resident seeking to buy a property in UAQ from the secondary market, but was advised against it. I am told that it is preferable to buy directly from the developer. 
I would like to know what are the reasons and dangers of buying from the secondary market. Many individuals enter the property market to resell for a profit in the short term, hence I would think that the secondary market is well structured.
Please let me know the difference between buying from a buyer and from a developer, as well as the disadvantage.
thanks


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Can be cheaper to buy from the secondary market for something in the middle of construction compared to a newly announced developent. Also you could buy something completed and start making profit from rent now. 

Downside is trying to get a mortgage on the premium asked for by the seller. Is this now possible? 

I know people who have bought on the secondary market and had no problems, just make sure that a good lawyer is used for the transaction.


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ When you buy in secondary market you may have to pay a transfer fee to the developer. When you buy directly from developer you dont have to pay any such fees.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Transfer fee to developer is usually only for properties that are not yet complete. Typically 2% paid on day of transfer.


----------



## rexdmx

New real estate authority will give boost to market 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: August 02, 2007, 00:33


Dubai: The formation of Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) is further evidence that the emirate's strategy on property law is on the right track, say industry experts.

The agency was announced yesterday following a decree issued by His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai. It will be affiliated to the Land Department with responsibility for overseeing key areas such as property brokers, trust accounts and owners associations.

Analysts say the fact that the Land Department has split its regulatory work from the massive task of registering freehold title deeds, allowing it to focus on each role in greater depth, is good news for the market and another step towards building a solid legal framework governing the sector. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Land Department says it has so far registered more than 6,000 villas and close to 6,200 flats in Dubai since registration got going four months ago.

"The formation of a single body overseeing an increasingly sophisticated regulatory framework governing the property sector is an excellent step and the market will react well," said Adel Lootah, executive director of Dubai Property Group.

One of RERA's main responsibilities will be to take over the Land Department's work in licensing and regulating real estate brokers in an effort to weed out unqualified free-lance agents.

Making life tough

"They are really making life tough on agents who aren't professional," said Craig Johnson, managing director of consultancy Landmark Properties. "We have already seen for ourselves a big decline in the number of freelance property agents operating in the market. It's getting too hard for them to exist."


----------



## eudora

*Opening Bank Account in Dirhams*

Hi 

Is it possible to open a dirhams/UAE bank account - without going to Dubai. We are not due to visit for some time and hope it might be possible with one of the international banks.

thks


----------



## DubaiDream

eudora said:


> Hi
> 
> Is it possible to open a dirhams/UAE bank account - without going to Dubai. We are not due to visit for some time and hope it might be possible with one of the international banks.
> 
> thks


HSBC in the UK helped me to open a AED account at an HSBC in Dubai. Fairly straightforward process, just fill out a few forms. You get a cashcard.


----------



## /-/_E_C_T_O_R 8§8

*Al burj*

Al Burj Tower page????????? www.alburj.com


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## Krazy

* Escrow law 'needs clarification'*



Dubai: Clarification is needed on key issue relating to Dubai's recently released law on trust accounts (also known as escrow accounts), say two Dubai-based companies.

One aspect, which targets foreign investors and developers looking to buy and develop plots in Dubai's freehold areas, was not addressed by the law, according to law firm Bin Shabib & Associates and Morison Menon Chartered Accountants.

Currently the licences required to develop land and sell and purchase property are only granted by Dubai Economic Department (DED) to UAE or GCC nationals.

"This means that foreign investors, who have a title deed to a plot of land, have had to go through 'local' companies, mostly contractors, to gain the appropriate licence and right to build developments on these plots," said Jimmy Haoula, managing partner at Bin Shabib & Associates

"Will expatriate developers be comfortable investing in the name of UAE or GCC nationals," asked Raju Menon, managing partner at Morison Menon Chartered Accountants.

According to the trust account law, development licences are required for developers to set up trust accounts, which safeguard buyer's payments and release funds upon completion of certain stages of building work.

HSBC, Dubai Islamic Bank, Badr Al Islami (the Islamic financial division of mashreq) and Standard Chartered Bank have stepped forward to establish trust accounts, and more could follow. Clarification of the issue is essential as foreign developers will only increase their activities in Dubai if they are provided with adequate security and the legal framework to do business, said Haoula.

"This would mean them being granted licences to develop projects on the plots they own without having to go through local intermediaries," he said.

Haoula said this can be done through the DED by opening up the licensing requirements to permit foreign investors to hold property development licences.

Alternatively, the recently established Real Estate Regulatory Authority could act as the licensing authority for real estate developers (UAE/Gulf nationals or otherwise) in the freehold designated areas, he said.

Menon also suggested that the introduction of the trust account system could pave the way for development licence to be opened to 100 per cent expatriate ownership.

"As construction is guaranteed for investors, Dubai free zones may come up with development licence, which will hold good the legal requirement to have a trade license and Dubai chamber membership," he said.


----------



## Krazy

* Escrow law will sift good developers from the bad*

By Ryan Mahoney


It was great to finally get confirmation of the implementation of the escrow law last week. This will help put the Dubai market on a more level playing field with its international counterparts, and should help entice more investors to the market by ensuring only credible developers are operating here. The law is something we have been requesting for some time now, it's a standard mechanism that has been used in other markets for many years and is critical to protecting consumers and the viability of the Dubai market.

In other news, there has been talk on the short-term rentals market and whether or not property owners are legally allowed to short-term let their units. While it isn't for me to comment on the content of specific contracts between developers and owners, I will say that I believe that if conducted through the correct channels, investors should be able to use short-term rentals as a means to achieve the highest returns possible on their investment.

However, the key to this lies in professionally managed operations. To ensure the best interests of all parties are considered, short-term rentals must be carried out in the correct manner, as a commercial enterprise with a trade licence, and not just by someone trying to capitalise on an under supply of hotel rooms in Dubai.

Professional management

I understand that there have been complaints from residents in developments where owners have taken it upon themselves to let their apartments on a daily basis. This isn't an ideal way to manage the rental of a building and I can fully understand residents concerns when their neighbours change on a nightly basis.

In terms of maintenance, the wear and tear on the building will increase significantly with such a high turnover of occupants. Developers are well aware that some individual owners are offering short-term lets on the side with only the interests of their pockets in mind, and quite rightly have acted to put a stop to such illegal actions. In contrast, professional letting agencies act as a buffer between the owners and tenants to ensure the needs of both parties are met and all transactions are conducted legitimately.

A reputable agency would put legal contracts in place to manage all lettings, thus protecting both owners and tenants, they would use a specialised booking system to record all visitor activity and they would employ a professional maintenance team to preserve the building and maintain standards. In addition, some service providers restrict stays to a minimum of one week to further minimise the risks involved with having a high turn-over of tenants.

Win-win situation

When managed properly, short-term rentals offer a win-win situation for both investors and paying guests. In Dubai's current climate of an under supply in accommodation such options are essential to those who have recently relocated, are on holiday with family, or are here on extended business.

A blanket ban on this rental option by developers could damage investor confidence with some taking the view that if they are investing their hard earned money they should be able to choose how they rent their unit, within reason of course, to ensure the maximum gains. In short, using professional services is the best quality guarantee for both owners and tenants.

For some time now, the Dubai market has been getting closer and closer to developed status. The freshly announced establishment of a regulatory authority, along with laws aimed at protecting buyers such as escrow, and the continued efforts of developers to crackdown on illegal traders, can only help to further enhance this status.




_The writer is managing director of Better Homes._


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## jeetha

I had a phone call today, for exchange rates (£1 - 7.45 dhs).


----------



## agod

Dubai Dream
Do you already have an account with them here in the UK? as I have one with TSB, and they would not entertain me transfering to Dubai, said I needed a residency visa's, which I will get when I live there, but no, they would report all my dealings to the UK Tax man.

Alan


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## muffassa

hi guys 
i need some advice i am planning to buy a villa will it be good to buy a villa in emaar development where the prices are almost dhs 1000 per sqft or will it be better to buy in up motor city project please explain your choice.

i would appreciate all the help you can forward.

thanking you in advance


----------



## rexdmx

*a nice read*

Simplicity is the new mantra for builders 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: August 03, 2007, 23:12


Dubai: The days of twisting, rotating, dancing towers being launched in Dubai could be numbered. 

Developers' emphasis on extravagant exterior building design is being replaced by a new demand - that of making the most efficient use of increasingly expensive land, say architects.

"Dubai is still a hotbed for new ideas, but it's now at a stage where the quality of an idea is the most important factor, instead of purely a desire to be different," said James Law, chairman of James Law Cybertecture International, which counts the iPod shaped The Pad (an Omniyat Properties project) among its Middle East projects.

"In some new developments, you can see that the masterplanner is looking for sustainable, responsible designs," Law said. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Using a building site effectively often translates into simple, sleek designs that fit well into their urban surroundings and make efficient use of interior space and energy. In the past developers tended to focus on the exterior, largely overlooking the ‘intimate living experience' of the building residents.

"Developers realise that quality means just as much as location and clever marketing, while the investors themselves are becoming more discerning."

Dubai could soon draw similarities to Hong Kong, where steep land prices make design efficiency essential, said William Yuen, director, P&T Architects and Engineers Ltd, Dubai branch, which counts City of Arabia in Dubai and a major residential project at Ajman Corniche among its UAE projects. 

"In Hong Kong, a combination of stringent building regulations and expensive land prices means the developers know exactly what they want from a site. We as architects have to come up with very efficient designs to get the maximum sellable area from a site," he said.

On average, Dubai land values increased by 35 per cent in 2006 from 2005 and 24 per cent in 2007 from 2006, according to a report published by UAE property services company Asteco.

"As the Dubai market matures and land prices increase, developers will look towards honest designs that are approached logically and efficiently and don't try to do too much," Yuen added. 

"But having said that, it doesn't mean you can't create simple, but interesting, architecture. If you go to Hong Kong, you will still find many iconic high-rise buildings."

Yuen said the trend towards simplicity and sophistication is an important path for Dubai to follow. In Dubai's competitive market, developers are under pressure to create buildings that will draw attention and investor interest. 

But too many iconic buildings without proper reference to the surrounding urban design could ‘cancel out each other', he warned.

Emirates Towers in Dubai is an example of a relatively simple yet iconic structure, he added.


----------



## rexdmx

*important point*

Dubai utilities struggle to keep up with realty boom 
By Stefania Bianchi, Zawya Dow Jones
Published: August 03, 2007, 23:12


Dubai's $300 billion real-estate boom may be slowed as the emirate's power and water utility struggles to keep up with demand from residential and tourism projects, property developers say.

The Dubai Electricity and Water Authority "is really struggling to keep up with demand, and quite frankly I don't think it is keeping up," Peter Riddoch, chief executive officer of Damac Properties, the UAE's largest privately-owned property developer, said. 

"Power and water supply is one of the biggest challenges facing Dubai's real-estate sector. In a number of areas, the government is playing catch up," he said, adding that although none of Damac's projects have been delayed to date, he is concerned about developments coming onstream later this year and early next year. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We have a number of properties coming onstream in the near future, and if properties are finished and the services aren't ready, it will be a real problem," he said. 

Dubai's power and water demand is rising by an average annual 20 per cent and 15 per cent respectively, according to Dewa, as the emirate's economy and population rapidly expand. 

Population 

White collar expatriate workers are flocking to Dubai, attracted by tax-free earnings, and an oil-fuelled regional economic boom is pushing up demand on services and housing. 

The emirate's population is expected to grow by almost a third to two million people by 2010, according to the London-based Middle East Economic Digest. 

Dubai is also using bumper oil revenues to embark on massive infrastructure development, which includes some of the world's largest and most ambitious real estate projects. 

This will also fuel power demand due to the wide application of energy-intensive air-conditioning. 

The National Bank of Dubai estimates that developers will pump $300 billion into real-estate development over the next ten years. 

Burj Dubai, the world's tallest tower, is being developed by Emaar Properties as part of its $20 billion Downtown Burj Dubai project. 

Nakheel, which is developing more than four billion square feet over the next 20 years, is also constructing three giant palm-shaped real estate projects off Dubai, which will add approximately 1,000 km to its coastline. 

The Palm Jumeirah, which will be completed first, will house 70,000 residents and 30 hotels.

The Palm Jebel Ali and Dubai Waterfront complex will hold a total of 1.7 million residents, and Palm Deira, the largest and most ambitious of the Palm trilogy, will hold some one million residents and will cover an area almost as large in size as Paris. 

"The sheer size and nature of Nakheel's waterfront projects means that often a different kind of approach to infrastructure provision is required," a Nakheel spokesperson said. 

"For example, Dewa will supply water and power to The Palm Jumeirah, where ultimate water demand will be around 20,000 cubic metres a day, and to assist with this undertaking Nakheel is building its own substations and networks." 

Frank Donnachie from Abu Dhabi-based Oasis International Power, said there are some "serious problems" with fuel supply. 

"It's a reality that Dewa is behind schedule. Infrastructure isn't keeping up with property development. Demand is outstretching the availability of power and projects such as Dubai Industrial Park and Dubai World Central are waiting for power," he said. 

Behind schedule

Donnachie said the government is struggling to keep up with rising demand. 

"The Dubai Government is looking for alternative sources of energy, but the time factor isn't clear. For example it takes three to four years to build a power station, so real estate projects have to slow down so they can get power in time," he said. 

Adel Lootah, executive director of the Dubai Property Group, which represents the emirate's real-estate industry, said the government is aware of the power challenges and is doing all it can to respond. 

"Dewa is definitely having a lot of sleepless nights, but they aren't just waiting. They are doing what they can. The problem is we don't have enough oil or gas but we are beginning to get it," he said. 

More megawatts 

A report by Arab Petroleum Investments Corp last week said the UAE will invest $61.2 billion to boost power and water capacity by around 60 per cent by 2011 from the 2006 level of 14.8 gigawatts.

Dewa plans to build a 9,000 megawatt power and desalination complex near the border with Abu Dhabi, known as P station, and adding 5,000 megawatts at new sites at Al Habab power facility by 2017. 

Another 400 megawatts will be added by upgrading existing power plants at Jebel Ali, a port and free zone adjacent to which most of the emirate's power generation capacity of about 5,000 megawatts is presently located. 

"Present production capability is in excess of 4,500 megawatts. If we assume there are one million people in Dubai that is 0.0045 megawatt per person. 

"This would include all power usages, not just domestic homes. There are estimates that this will be almost double that in the next five years," said Lisa Henthorne, global director of desalination technology at CH2M Hill, a power, water and infrastructure consultant.


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## True Blue

Some very interesting facts. Thats everything except the statements by Riddoch.

Land prices up by 67% in the last 2 years, that can only bode well for property prices and stem any possibility of bubble bursting real estate prices.

Picked this up on http://www.prebdubai.com/Rentals.html about JBR long term rental prices.

Jumeirah Beach Residence Price Guide:

Studio 80K-95K 
1 Bed 120K-135K 
2 Bed 150K-180K 
3 Bed 180K-220K 
4 Bed 250K-300K 

The release of JBR onto the market does not appear to have corrected the market. Infact the rates for 1 beds are still rising.


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## glover

^^^ i'll take their 2bed figures with a grain of salt. judging by Better Homes listings (which is the most updated realty site i seen), the average 2bed in JBR is going today for about 135k. A couple are even listed for as low as 120k. Maybe it's the summer, but rents for 2beds have come down a bit in the marina since JBR came on the market.

On the other hand, rents for studios and 1beds don't seem to have been affected by the flood of JBR apartments.


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## plotman

*POWER SUPPLY*

Its been muted in a few places that UAE will finance new nuclear stations in UK , in return for the knowledge and assistance to build in UAE


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## IISinbadII

True Blue said:


> Jumeirah Beach Residence Price Guide:
> 
> Studio 80K-95K
> 1 Bed 120K-135K
> 2 Bed 150K-180K
> 3 Bed 180K-220K
> 4 Bed 250K-300K
> 
> The release of JBR onto the market does not appear to have corrected the market. Infact the rates for 1 beds are still rising.


Is that for real? 

Are these prices for regular JBR apts or those with sea view. Why would someone pay 250K for a 4 bed "flat" when he/she could rent a 5 BR plus real Villa for that price?


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## rexdmx

Dubai's real estate regulator gets new CEO 
Staff Report
Published: August 05, 2007, 00:00


Dubai: Shaikh Hamdan Bin Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, chairman of the Executive Council, yesterday appointed Marwan Bin Ghelaita as chief executive officer of the Real Estate Regulatory Agency.

The agency was established in Dubai last week will be responsible for four key aspects of the sector which include policies and strategies, regulation and registration, research and studies as well as programmes and projects.

The establishment of the agency underlines the objectives of Dubai Strategic Plan 2015, which has placed significant emphasis on the real estate sector as one of the major drivers of the emirate's economy. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As CEO, Bin Ghelaita will submit a strategic business plan to the Council. He will also be responsible for implementing the Executive Council's decisions, proposing initiatives and projects related to the agency's activities, preparing the annual budget, proposing the organisational structure as well as financial, administrative and technical by-laws.

Marwan Bin Ghelaita said: "The establishment of the agency aims to develop the real estate sector in line with the Dubai Strategy Plan 2015, especially since it was listed as one of the stronger sectors in Dubai and a major element in determining its competitive advantages.

"We will embark on reviewing and updating current laws and regulations and suggesting new regulatory frameworks to protect the interests of all."


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## glover

good news, just found out that my service fee in al-Sahab (Emaar development) has come down this year to AED 11.62 sqft from AED 13.52 sqft in 2006. i still think Emarr is making at least 30-40% profit on these fees. Looking forward to the soon-to-be-issued condo law. only then, and through competitive biding and cost cutting measures, the owners association will be able to bring it down to around AED 5-7 sqft. i see more people working for Emaar in my building than i see residents!


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## True Blue

^^Do Emaar not submit a statement of account to justify the sevice charges. Surely that's how it works!


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## True Blue

IISinbadII said:


> Is that for real?
> 
> Are these prices for regular JBR apts or those with sea view. Why would someone pay 250K for a 4 bed "flat" when he/she could rent a 5 BR plus real Villa for that price?


The table of rates was copied directly from their website. Worth a look to see if they provide views etc. http://www.prebdubai.com/Rentals.html


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## rexdmx

they probably do...just like union properties did for green community when they were subsidizing the residents. do u remember when it was in the news?




True Blue said:


> ^^Do Emaar not submit a statement of account to justify the sevice charges. Surely that's how it works!


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## rexdmx

a villa is actually more difficult to maintain





IISinbadII said:


> Is that for real?
> 
> Are these prices for regular JBR apts or those with sea view. Why would someone pay 250K for a 4 bed "flat" when he/she could rent a 5 BR plus real Villa for that price?


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## googly

True Blue said:


> The release of JBR onto the market does not appear to have corrected the market. Infact the rates for 1 beds are still rising.


What about the occupancy rate at JBR? When I was in Dubai last month, I couldnt see anybody living in JBR (especially at the lower end of the marina). Unless people move in, rates will fall.


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## IISinbadII

^^ Not all JBR has been deleverd yet. Also there must be many investors and people who bought this beach-front property as holiday homes. Besides these are hot summer months of the year. So I dont expect to see two many people actually living in JBR yet.


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## High Times

Krazy said:


> * New agencies to monitor property laws and registration*
> 
> 
> 
> Dubai: The Dubai Land Department, the organisation that oversees the emirate's ballooning property sector, is undergoing a major restructuring process.
> 
> The department will create two agencies under its umbrella in an effort to cope with a tidal wave of freehold property registrations, as well as numerous additions to the emirate's regulatory framework.
> 
> It follows a decree issued yesterday by His Highness Shaikh Mohammad bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, which established the first new body affiliated to the Land Department - the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA).
> 
> The agency will oversee key regulations governing the property sector, including recent laws on real estate brokers, trust accounts, and upcoming rules on the responsibilities of Home Owners Associations (HOA).
> 
> A separate agency will be formed at a later date to deal exclusively with the ongoing registration of freehold title deeds in Dubai.
> 
> "The Land Department has two core businesses -- registration, and monitoring and regulating and the market. All regulation and monitoring will be handled by this new agency," said Land Department official Marwan Ahmad Bin Ghalita.
> 
> Sudhir Kumar, executive director, property division at Morison (UAE) Consulting, said the huge expansion of Dubai's real estate sector made the Land Department's move inevitable.
> 
> "Controlling the land registration process and overseeing regulations are huge jobs, so we were expecting this segregation," he said.
> 
> "It makes sense to split these tasks, which will bring in greater performance and efficiency that can only benefit the investor."
> 
> One of the agency's main roles will be to license and regulate real estate brokers in Dubai. The agency will also oversee the trust (escrow) accounts which were introduced last week to safeguard buyers' payments in special accounts.
> 
> Key roles
> 
> * Oversee operations of property developers, property management companies, financing institutions, brokers and owners' association.
> * Responsible for registration and endorsement of lease contracts and licensing property development establishments.
> * Responsible for approving financial institutions qualified to manage escrow accounts.
> * Manage and supervise the works of Home Owners Associations and monitor property adverts.


KRAZY,

Do you think that this department will publish what units are being sold for when a transfer of ownership takes place in UAE ?

In the UK and i think US this sort of information is available publicly.

As the resale business is still in int's infancy do you know if there are any records kept of what units actualy sell for ?

If so, is this available to the public yet ?


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## DubaiDream

agod said:


> Dubai Dream
> Do you already have an account with them here in the UK? as I have one with TSB, and they would not entertain me transfering to Dubai, said I needed a residency visa's, which I will get when I live there, but no, they would report all my dealings to the UK Tax man.
> 
> Alan


Yep I have a premier account in the UK; not sure about the tax situation of my UAE account; dont really use it yet


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## Imre

Gulfnews, today

prices going down or just a correction?

JBR and Palm Jumeirah 1 B/R from 100K.



JBR




Palm Jumeirah


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## glover

i think it's a marketing thing, the trick here is the word "from"! they probably have one or two apartments in those prices, but most will be above that. i am basing this conclusion on the listings available at Better Homes. For example, there are 2beds going for 120k listed on Better Homes, but only two. The rest average around 135K. 

with summer almost done (not talking about the heat here), rates will firm up.

i think prices have held up pretty well given that we had over 6k apartments delivered in the last 3 months in JBR alone.


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## rexdmx

Demand for residential units 'to outstrip supply' 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: August 06, 2007, 23:03


Dubai: Demand for residential units in Dubai is expected to outstrip supply until at least the turn of the decade, making chances of a price correction appear slim, according to a new report.

Supply of residential properties will total approximately 175,000 new units by 2010. But an estimated 181,000 units will be required by the end of the decade - an undersupply of 6,000 units, according to the MEED Dubai Real Estate Report 2007.

In total, the value of projects either planned or under way in Dubai will hit $310 billion over the next decade. 

Of this, close to $230 billion, equivalent to almost three-quarters of the total, is planned in the property sector, the report stated.

Angus Hindley, research editor at MEED, said the report shows that the property industry will prevail as the main factor fuelling Dubai's booming economy until at least 2010. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Real estate has played and will continue to play a vital role in Dubai's growth. It is a lynchpin for the emirate's economy, fuelling the construction boom and attracting billions of dollars to Dubai," he said.

Uppward momentum

The other main findings show that construction has grown at an average of 32.7 per cent a year since 2001 and in 2006 accounted for 12.7 per cent of total GDP, up from 7.2 per cent in 2001.

Averaging at 17.9 per cent since 2001, the economy of Dubai has been one of the best performing in the Gulf over the past five years, largely due to property development.

Real estate and business services have recorded average growth of 25 per cent a year, driven in large part by government-empowered developers, such as Emaar Properties, Dubai Properties and Nakheel, and landmark projects like Downtown Dubai, Business Bay and the Palm Islands trilogy, said Hindley.

Numerous real estate analysts contacted by Gulf News agreed that a major price correction in the residential sales market before the turn of the decade looks unlikely.

Many said they expect the market to maintain its upward momentum, but returns on investment to shrink slightly as increased supply puts pressure on sellers to set "more realistic" prices, especially in the mid-market residential sector.

Forecast

"There is still plenty of life left in the market - plenty of room for investors to make some good profits, although maybe not the kind of profits that were made two or three years ago," said Craig Johnson, general manager of Dubai-based Landmark Properties.

A correction will be more likely to occur in the rental market, analysts say.

Second quarter 2007 figures provided by UAE real estate services company Asteco showed that rental rates for apartments in Dubai increased just two per cent on average, compared to 12 per cent for villas. 

In the commercial sector, Asteco said office rents should remain high through 2007 and 2008 due to delays in bringing supply onto the market. 

2009 could be the turning point for rents, said Asteco's managing director Andrew Chambers.

Some 50 million square feet of commercial space will be available in Dubai by 2010, 28.5 per cent of which will be in Business Bay, according to Asteco's report.


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## Krazy

^^ Marina is a better project to buy in if you're personally going to use the property. Burj Dubai is better for investment.


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## googly

Krazy said:


> ^^ Marina is a better project to buy in if you're personally going to use the property. Burj Dubai is better for investment.


Burj Dubai is prohibitively expensive! Unless you are loaded, you are most likely to invest in the Marina (as opposed to BD), even if you dont intend to personally move there.


----------



## OmarPERU

IISinbadII said:


> Congratulations Omar.
> 
> I know that you were also looking at apartments in the Burj Dubai Complex. So what made you decide to buy MP in Marina and not say the Residences in Burj area? Thanks.



Thanks Sinbad, there were 2 reasons why I finally didn't buy an apartment in Burj Area.

1. The Prices, per sq-ft are very expensive. My idea was to get a 1 BR with at least partial view to the Burj. These ones you get in W1 tower. They were a few on sale. fisrt one I got was 1.8M (1.7K AED per sq-ft). I made an offer, and the owner told me that he received another 1.95M and I decided not to bid. After, I had similar experience in 2 apts more. Everything was happenning 2 weeks before the Burj reached Taipei 101 height. After the big announcement of Burj, prices went to aproximately 2.0K AED per sq-ft, without a view. Not for me.

2. Together with this pricing increase, the fact that everything in Burj Residences I was sold, you need to deal with the secondary market. And I had very bad experiences trying to work with the real state companies in Dubai. I have been offered exactly the same apartment by 4 different companies, at different prices. each one, adding their own fee, on top of the previous price. This didn't happen once, but 3 times. Even couple of times I received a call from them: "I am sorry, but the apartment was sold yesterday"... and the next day, I was shown the same apartment by a different company at a lower price... hno: 

In the other hand: Why MP? I really think it is the best option to buy right now in Marnia, in the case that you want to live there. The quality of the project and the close delivery date of the apartments made my decision easy. Also, the fact that I studied a lot about the Residences I project, and when I was moving my decision to Emaar in Marina, MP was very similar. I have seen in detail many apartments in the Residences I, and I expect similar quality in MP.

I still want to invest in Burj area, but most probably will wait for the next Emaar project to be offered. Residences III? I'd really would like to get something in Boulevard Crescent, but will have to wait, and save some money...


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## IISinbadII

googly said:


> Burj Dubai is prohibitively expensive!


Yes its expensive, but there is a reason for it. Mark my words, these prices could look cheap by the time the Burj and Mall completes. Plus you have the Aquarium, Ice Skating Ring, Metro, Tram etc coming........... Burj is where the money is!


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## IISinbadII

OmarPERU said:


> Thanks Sinbad, there were 2 reasons why I finally didn't buy an apartment in Burj Area.
> 
> 1. The Prices, per sq-ft are very expensive. My idea was to get a 1 BR with at least partial view to the Burj. These ones you get in W1 tower. They were a few on sale. fisrt one I got was 1.8M (1.7K AED per sq-ft). I made an offer, and the owner told me that he received another 1.95M and I decided not to bid. After, I had similar experience in 2 apts more. Everything was happenning 2 weeks before the Burj reached Taipei 101 height. After the big announcement of Burj, prices went to aproximately 2.0K AED per sq-ft, without a view. Not for me.
> 
> 2. Together with this pricing increase, the fact that everything in Burj Residences I was sold, you need to deal with the secondary market. And I had very bad experiences trying to work with the real state companies in Dubai. I have been offered exactly the same apartment by 4 different companies, at different prices. each one, adding their own fee, on top of the previous price. This didn't happen once, but 3 times. Even couple of times I received a call from them: "I am sorry, but the apartment was sold yesterday"... and the next day, I was shown the same apartment by a different company at a lower price... hno:
> 
> In the other hand: Why MP? I really think it is the best option to buy right now in Marnia, in the case that you want to live there. The quality of the project and the close delivery date of the apartments made my decision easy. Also, the fact that I studied a lot about the Residences I project, and when I was moving my decision to Emaar in Marina, MP was very similar. I have seen in detail many apartments in the Residences I, and I expect similar quality in MP.
> 
> I still want to invest in Burj area, but most probably will wait for the next Emaar project to be offered. Residences III? I'd really would like to get something in Boulevard Crescent, but will have to wait, and save some money...


Thanks for the detailed reply. Indeed its very hard to buy in the secondary market (esp. if you want something good at the right price). 

Every few months Emaar offers something in Burj area. The only problem is that the base prices are not as cheap as they used to be. Plus you have to wait two or more years for completion. :bash:


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## rexdmx

Theme parks to be big attraction 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: August 07, 2007, 23:05


Dubai: More than Dh20 billion will be spent on turning Dubai into the site of some of the world's most prestigious theme parks.

Dubai's ambitious target of 15 million tourists by 2010 has seen local companies attract the biggest names in the global entertainment business, such as US film studios Universal and Paramount Pictures.

If current projects are realised, Dubai will become the location for rides and attractions based on hits such as Titanic and Mission Impossible, turning the emirate into more than just a haven for golden beaches and luxury hotels.

Guy Wilkinson, partner at Dubai-based hotel consultancy Gloster Management Consultants, said the projects will play a major role in meeting Dubai's ambitious tourist targets up to and beyond 2010. 


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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


He said their main impact will be to add permanent variety to holidays in Dubai, thereby increasing the average length of stay, which currently stands at less than a week, and increasing the rate of repeat visits.

Average stay

"These projects are very important to Dubai's future. The emirate has 160 confirmed hotel projects and just one day added to the average length of stay will have a significant impact on their business," said Wilkinson.

He added that linking well-known names such as Universal and Paramount to Dubai's attractions will be a huge pull for Middle Eastern families who mostly travel to the US or Europe for amusement park holidays.

Paramount Pictures recently allowed real estate company Ruwaad Holdings to build a theme park in its name. 

It will be the hub of a Dh9.2 billion mixed-use development expected to feature hotels, resorts and shopping centres. A location within the UAE was not identified yet at the June announcement.

The project will face competition from its Hollywood-based rival, Universal Studios, which will help set up a Dh8 billion Universal City Dubailand.

Universal Studios will provide technical support to the development while Tatweer, part of Dubai Holding, the Dubai government's investment arm will invest a further Dh8 billion, the two firms said.

The 6.5 million square foot project will be among the world's largest theme parks and will attract more than three million tourists to Dubai by 2010, officials said. 

The project will also include hotels, retail outlets, offices and residential compounds.

Content creation

Meanwhile, UAE-based Al Ahli Group said it has partnered with American kids TV network Nickelodeon to co-develop its Dh3.67 billion ($1 billion) Dubai amusement park and also create content for its foray into local movie and TV entertainment.

Al Ahli, which owns businesses in industrial manufacturing, real estate development and publishing, said the amusement park is scheduled to open in 2011, but did not reveal its location. 

In March, the company signed a similar licensing deal with Marvel Entertainment, the owners of the Spiderman and Batman comic book hero franchises.

As well as attracting big names from overseas, Dubai is also creating its own amusement park themes.


----------



## DubaiMarina

The first account under Law No. 8 of 2007 becomes operational. Investor payments in Al Manal Development's new La Vista Residence project at Dubai Silicon OasisDubai Silicon OasisDubai Silicon Oasis are being banked with Badr Al IslamiBadr Al Islami, Islamic Banking Division, MashreqMashreq PSC in the first property trust management account to be opened in Dubai. 

http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZAWYA20070809080507/SecIndustries/pagReal Estate


----------



## DubaiDream

I think the Burj Tower itself is a fantastic investment - one of the best in Dubai Real Estate with some way to go in terms of capital appreciation. If I had the cash, thats where it would be. However, I was looking at the bhomes site and the cheapest apartment they are selling is £650K Sterling. With financing that makes a 25-30% deposit quite painful.

My next favourite investment would be JBR (Full sea view), then Villa developments, then the Marina.

I love the Marina, and as Dubai continues to develop it should continue to benefit, but I have some concern that an incredible amount of supply in the pipeline will limit capital appreciation.


----------



## glover

IISinbadII said:


> When investing one should look at both, _Rental Return _and _Capital Appriciation_. Renal returns could be the same for both but BD is in lead when it comes to capital appriciation.


then the question is what is the rate of appreciation in BD compared to the marina (in the past and going forward). My 2bed was sold by the developer (EMAAR) off plan for 1.1m in 2004, it's worth now around 1.8m. That's almost 75% appreciation in 3 years. i could very well see my place going for 2.5m in 3-4 years, if not earlier! 

For obvious reasons, you really can't use the Burj itself as a comparison point. it has to be the other buildings in the BD district! 

As far as I understand, EMAAR's prices in BD have a much higher mark up than in Dubai Marina! In other words, even if the square footage is going higher in BD now than in the marina, that doesn't mean that there is higher appreciation in BD compared to the Marina!


----------



## rexdmx

*from ameinfo*

Will the Burj Dubai mark the top of the Dubai property boom?
Tall building syndrome is a well known phenomenon. The topping out of the world's tallest buildings has frequently happened at the point when a local market turned down. 
The twin towers in Kuala Lumpur was completed just in time for the Asian Financial crisis in 1998. The World Trade Centre in New York opened just before the 1973-4 Wall Street crash. London's Canary Wharf tower opened in 1990 just at the start of the worst post-war recession in the UK. 

So could the news that the 512m high Burj Dubai has now topped the 508m Taipei 101 as the world's tallest tower be an indicator that Dubai now faces tougher times? 

Well people said the same thing in 1999 when the Emirates Towers became the tallest building in the Middle East. And while it is true that oil prices at $10 a barrel that year slowed Dubai's development the rebound into the new millennium was spectacular by any standards. 


Deja vu?

Could we experience the same again with Emaar's Burj Dubai? With oil prices hovering around $75 a barrel that does not seem likely. Demand for commercial and residential property in Dubai is enormous and rents have surged upwards again this year. 

It seems that property just cannot be physically delivered fast enough to meet demand. Of course, at some stage there will be too much supply, rents will fall and property development activity will subside. 

But predicting exactly when that might happen is a fool's errand, and project delays are getting longer, not shorter. Nakheel has announced that infrastructure work on the second Palm Jebel Ali will not now be completed until 2012. 

Besides booms tend to last longer than people expect. Perhaps that is just because projects get delayed, or more likely the main driver is a snowball of confidence that takes as long to slow down as it took to get going. 


Boom to continue

Either way unless something goes drastically wrong in the global economy and a recession hits the oil price for six, then the Dubai real estate boom will continue for some time. 

But Dubai's new Law No 8 establishing compulsory escrow accounts for new developments is likely to dissuade many smaller project promoters, and marks a new era for Dubai real estate. 

However, this is an orderly winding down of a construction boom and not a collapse. Dubai managed that in 1999 and the government's capacity as a developer should not be underestimated. 

When it is completed next year the Burj Dubai will be a symbol of Dubai's achievement in quadrupling local GDP in the past decade. Then the global competition to build higher will take a new turn, and Australian James Packer has just announced plans to build a super-tall building in Las Vegas. 

But the Burj Dubai's most likely competitor will probably be closer to home. Nakheel's proposed Al Burj tower is expected to be significantly higher!


----------



## rexdmx

Dubai must watch out for less pleasant superlatives
The tallest, the biggest, the fastest - superlatives such as these are what Dubai is all about at this point in time. Over the past few years especially, the city has been keen to maintain a frenetic speed of development and innumerable ostentatious projects have underlined the emirate's self-belief and, shall we say, chutzpah.
Dubai's place at the forefront of some of the UAE's most headline-grabbing projects is undeniably impressive. How many countries of any magnitude around the globe have four large-scale offshore development schemes on the go? Yet, Dubai, just one emirate within a relatively small Gulf state, does - with its three 'palms' and The World. 


Unsurpassed ambitions
But such ambition is still not enough for this booming desert metropolis and regular users of the city's Sheikh Zayed Road will have watched the Burj Dubai rise ever skywards over the past eighteen months on its way to becoming the world's tallest tower. A recent newspaper report suggested that by 2015 Dubai will contain six 'supertowers' (buildings consisting of at least 100 storeys) more than any other city in the world. 

Last year, Sheikh Mohammed himself unveiled Bawadi, an almost unfeasibly huge tourism and hospitality complex to be built out in the desert at a cost of $27bn with 31 hotels, including, almost inevitably, the world's largest hotel, Asia Asia, with 6,500 rooms. But, barely two months ago, the initial investment was doubled to $54bn and now 51 hotels will be built, providing a staggering total of 60,000 hotel rooms. The complex will also contain what has been described as the biggest shopping area in the world, with a mall covering a whopping 40 million square feet. 


Fast-growing flyer
Dubai's airline, Emirates, has also not been slow to embrace the city's ferocious appetite for growth and expansion, emboldened perhaps by statistics such as those revealed recently by the Airports Council International which suggest that the Middle East is presently seeing its international traffic grow at three times the global average. 

The airline already flies to well over 50 countries but it is determined to keep notching up new destinations with flights to Venice launched just this month and the likes of Newcastle, Toronto and Sao Paolo on the horizon. The carrier also has an eyebrow raising order book of 118 aircraft worth $30bn as it seeks to play its part in making Dubai the leading regional business and tourism hub. 

The $4.5bn expansion of Dubai International Airport will almost triple the facility's passenger handling capacity to 70 million passengers a year by 2009 and double its cargo capacity. But this ambitious scheme is in itself dwarfed by the mammoth $33bn Dubai World Central project which will include what is being billed as the world's biggest airport, the $10bn 'JXB', which will be able to handle up to 150 million passengers and 12 million tonnes of cargo a year when complete. 


Less impressive statistics
But while Dubai's pace of growth has been relentless and its drive and ambition unfaltering, this has also come at a price. A recent survey by GulfTalent.com found that Dubai is the most congested city in the Middle East, knocking the seemingly permanently grid-locked Cairo into second place. Commuters living in Sharjah and working in Dubai spend, on average, nearly three hours behind the wheel of their cars every day as they negotiate a round-trip which should take little more than an hour. The introduction of the new road toll Salik has brought some promising but as yet inconclusive results with regards to easing congestion. 

Dubai's economic growth has out-stripped its ability to provide adequate core infrastructure for its burgeoning workforce. Commuters live in Sharjah of course because Dubai's property values and rents are too steep for many pockets, while the city's roads are jammed because it has yet to develop a suitable public transport system and its much-vaunted metro is still a good two years away from any sort of readiness. 

The city's impressive growth rates have also impacted on commercial rents and Dubai presently has the most expensive office space in the entire Middle East and North Africa region. The danger is that companies seeking to keep their overheads to an acceptable level could choose to locate elsewhere in the UAE where rates are less fierce or, if they are considering a regional base, they could bypass the UAE all together. 


A question of time?
The re-assuring factor for Dubai is that many of these less impressive superlatives will undoubtedly become inappropriate once more of the supertowers, apartment blocks, residential communities and office blocks come on stream, thus cooling rents and property prices right across the board. From an infrastructure point of view, the many road projects presently being undertaken by the Roads and Transport Authority, coupled with the metro scheme, should also make Dubai an easier place to negotiate in the medium term. 

But the big concern for Dubai, a number of years from now, might be whether, in its bid to constantly underline its expansive ambition and drive, it inadvertently managed to over-stretch itself. If so, the city could then find itself with some of the cheapest hotel rooms, most affordable office space and bargain air fares around.


----------



## True Blue

djamel said:


> Jumeriah Beach residence property analisys , look the report on http://www.alineah.com/market_analysis.asp


^^Interesting information, JBR 1225/ft2 and rising versus Marina 1486/ft2 and falling. Maybe not far off as I think Marina is closer to 1350aed/ft2.
It does not give any indication how large the data count is though. Would be good if all real estate agents got together and pooled their sold prices data to create a more realistic market trend.

I have copied this to the investment thread.


----------



## jetsetter

Guys,

I may have a chance to buy a 2 bed apt on 47th floor (800 sq ft) in Burj Dubai Lake Hotel for £260,000. 

Any idea if this is a good deal? 

It equates to AED 2400/ sq ft but I think this could be worth a fortune in 5 years time.

Thoughts & comments appreciated...


----------



## Krazy

Have any projects been launched in Dubai since the escrow law came into effect 3 weeks ago?


----------



## rexdmx

KM Properties signs up under new law 
Agencies
Published: August 11, 2007, 23:04


Dubai: KM Properties, the real estate development arm of KM Holding said it has become the first developer to register under the Land Department's new law (Law 8) concerning real estate purchases and escrow account deposits. 

"It was one of the first companies to respond to the new law and immediately applied for registration to get licensed as a developer under the new rule," said Sultan Bin Butti Mejren, director of Dubai Land Development. 

The new law requires real estate developers to obtain a license from the Dubai Land Department to carry out property development business in the emirate. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Asked on the impact the new property law has resulted in the market, Marwan Bin Gileetah, the executive director of the Real Estate Association, said: "The Dubai property market is very healthy. There was a great response received from main and sub-developers.” 

He added also, "Being one of the respected companies operating in Dubai, we have high confidence that KM Properties will open the escrow account for all its recent projects since they made the first correct step by complying with the new rule.” 

Sanjeet Joher, Group Chief Operating Officer of KM Holding, the parent company of KM Properties, said the new law "allows for greater transparency in the real estate sector".

"KM Properties looks forward to working in tandem with the Land Department who will ensure on behalf of our customers that their investments are in good hands," he said.

He added that KM Properties "will further promote hassle-free investment opportunities to local and foreign based investors following the new investment protection scheme supported by the Land Department".


----------



## sameerl

Krazy,

You raise a very valid point. The introduction of the escrow law (and its subsequent clarifications to include off shore and free zone companies) marks an inflection point in the UAE real estate markets, and one that will not only weed out the questionable developers, but will also perhaps accelerate a correction, as second and third tier developers fall out by the wayside, hurting some investors in the process. Everybody agrees that this move was long overdue and healthy for the UAE market, but it will have ainful repercussions in the short to medium term.


----------



## rexdmx

Offshore realty firms can open escrow accounts 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: August 12, 2007, 23:00


Dubai: A major grey area in Dubai's new law on trust (escrow) accounts has been rectified, according to Dubai Land Department.

Click here to see the full text of the law (pdf)

A department official told Gulf News on Sunday that "a special arrangement" has been created which will allow foreign developers registered as offshore companies to set up trust accounts, which were introduced last month to protect buyers' stage payments. 

Under the conditions of Law No 8 concerning Real Estate Development Trust Accounts, developers wanting to set up the accounts are required to submit certain documents, including a trade licence. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Several legal experts subsequently highlighted the fact that licences required to develop land and sell and purchase property in Dubai are only granted by Dubai Economic Department (DED) to UAE or GCC nationals, while freezone companies are issued the document by their freezone authority.

It meant that foreign offshore companies who have a title deed to a plot of land have had to go through 'local' companies, mostly contractors, to gain the appropriate licence and right to build developments on these plots. 

Doubts

"Would expatriate developers be comfortable investing in the name of UAE or GCC nationals?" asked Raju Menon, managing partner at Morison Menon Chartered Accountants.

Land Department official Omar Bushahab told Gulf News yesterday that "a special arrangement" has now been introduced to solve the problem. 

Offshore companies wanting to register trust accounts in their name must now submit a series of documents to the land department, including several certificates from the authority in which the company is registered, he said. "We realised there was an omission and have rectified the problem," said Bushahab.

Jimmy Haoula, managing partner at Bin Shabib & Associates, earlier told Gulf News that clarification of the issue was essential as foreign developers would only increase their activities in Dubai if they are provided with adequate security and the legal framework to do business.

"This would mean them being granted licences to develop projects on the plots they own without having to go through local intermediaries," he said.

List of documents to be submitted

In a statement, Dubai Land Department said the following documents must be submitted by offshore companies wanting to set up trust (escrow) accounts in Dubai:

- An official certificate issued from any competent authority in the country in which the company has been registered. The certificate will state that the company is incorporated and registered in that country, as well as stating its legal status and capital amount.

- Original certificate of property ownership or contract.

- A copy of the decision issued from the competent administrative authority in the company concerning purchase/sale of the property, along with the authorisation issued to the representative (agent/nominee) in this regard.

- A power of attorney duly authenticated authorising the company's representative to purchase or sell the property and register the same at the department in the name of the company.

- A list of the incorporators/ partners, names of managers and their addresses.

- A certification of name and address of the approved agent in the country.


----------



## rexdmx

All payments go to special trust 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: August 12, 2007, 23:00


Dubai: Under the trust account law, people buying properties off plan at Dubai projects will make their payments into special accounts managed by banks and financial institutions instead of directly to the property developers. 

The law came into effect on June 28, 2007 upon publication in the Official Gazette. It applies to any developments where off-plan sales were launched after that date. 

For developments that are already 70-80 per cent completed, the developer will not be required to open a trust account. 

For developments where work has started on site and passed the shoring stage, a trust account will need to be opened by December 28, 2007. 

For developments that have not reached shoring stage, a trust account will need to be opened immediately, the Land Department said. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Government officials say money in these accounts can only be used for the project for which they were intended and will be released in stages only when certain levels of construction are completed. 

Titles

The account trustee will retain five per cent of the total amount paid into the trust account for one year after the developer has transferred titles of the units into the purchasers' names. 

This is to act as a guarantee that the developer will remedy any defects in the property which appear within the first year following hand-over.

List of documents to be submitted

In a statement, Dubai Land Department said the following documents must be submitted by offshore companies wanting to set up trust (escrow) accounts in Dubai:

- An official certificate issued from any competent authority in the country in which the company has been registered. The certificate will state that the company is incorporated and registered in that country, as well as stating its legal status and capital amount.

- Original certificate of property ownership or contract.

- A copy of the decision issued from the competent administrative authority in the company concerning purchase/sale of the property, along with the authorisation issued to the representative (agent/nominee) in this regard.

- A power of attorney duly authenticated authorising the company's representative to purchase or sell the property and register the same at the department in the name of the company.

- A list of the incorporators/ partners, names of managers and their addresses.

- A certification of name and address of the approved agent in the country


----------



## glover

sameerl said:


> Krazy,
> 
> You raise a very valid point. The introduction of the escrow law (and its subsequent clarifications to include off shore and free zone companies) marks an inflection point in the UAE real estate markets, and one that will not only weed out the questionable developers, but will also perhaps accelerate a correction, as second and third tier developers fall out by the wayside, hurting some investors in the process. Everybody agrees that this move was long overdue and healthy for the UAE market, but it will have ainful repercussions in the short to medium term.


it seems to me that the law will actually affect supply to the downside! if the main reason real estate in Dubai keeps going up (along with rents) is inadequate supply, how would less supply "accelerate a correction" if demand stays at the same level!


----------



## rexdmx

imo, i feel if this escrow has the desired effect of weeding out the bad developers, i feel there would be a massive supply crunch sameer
an increase in price is what i see here!!! glover is right here unless you have another reason


----------



## Morrismarina

I agree, the escrow law will reduce the number of developments being launched, hence reduce supply and prices will increase. Simple supply & demand economics. Plus investment confidence should increase as investors feel more secure pushing prices up still further. Good news for those who have already bought in Dubai. 

:cheers:


----------



## jetsetter

Guys,

Which 3 develepments in Burj would you rank as the best for investment - I am thinking that somewhere close to the mall and the metro would be the best.

I'm not sure whether to go for an old town apt (with no view) or one in Burj Lake hotel (facing old town) or one in Burj Views (perhaps this is a bit far from the mall and metro).

Also, is it worth spending an extra AED 400-500k for a 2 bedroom?

Advice greatly appreciated...


----------



## Morrismarina

jetsetter said:


> Guys,
> 
> Which 3 develepments in Burj would you rank as the best for investment - I am thinking that somewhere close to the mall and the metro would be the best.
> 
> I'm not sure whether to go for an old town apt (with no view) or one in Burj Lake hotel (facing old town) or one in Burj Views (perhaps this is a bit far from the mall and metro).
> 
> Also, is it worth spending an extra AED 400-500k for a 2 bedroom?
> 
> Advice greatly appreciated...


All depends on what you plan to do with them ??


----------



## jetsetter

Morrismarina said:


> All depends on what you plan to do with them ??


Long term hold - aimed at either long term corporate let or short term holiday lets (for mall/tower enthusiasts)


----------



## Krazy

interesting rental and price averages for Dubai Marina... exaggerated or realistic?

http://restate.ae/en/neighborhoods/1-Dubai-Marina


----------



## True Blue

Krazy said:


> interesting rental and price averages for Dubai Marina... exaggerated or realistic?
> 
> http://restate.ae/en/neighborhoods/1-Dubai-Marina



I am begining to see why the figures are slightly flawed. Some top class penthouses with values above 2000aed/ft2 are moving the average price higher than normal for your 1 and 2 bed mainstay. 

A decent development with a view should be around 1300-1400aed/ft completed.


----------



## IISinbadII

jetsetter said:


> Guys,
> 
> Which 3 develepments in Burj would you rank as the best for investment - I am thinking that somewhere close to the mall and the metro would be the best.
> 
> I'm not sure whether to go for an old town apt (with no view) or one in Burj Lake hotel (facing old town) or one in Burj Views (perhaps this is a bit far from the mall and metro).
> 
> Also, is it worth spending an extra AED 400-500k for a 2 bedroom?
> 
> Advice greatly appreciated...


Think about Old Town, Residences, Lofts and South Ridge among others. Lofts is very close to the Metro station. Also note that there will be a local Tram that can take you to the Metro and the Mall, etc. So being close or far won't matter that much.

For investment smaller is better. Best is an Studio or 1 BR. Rental yealds are higher and they move faster in case you want to sell.


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> interesting rental and price averages for Dubai Marina... exaggerated or realistic?
> 
> http://restate.ae/en/neighborhoods/1-Dubai-Marina


Realistic if they have marina view.


----------



## sameerl

The reason why i say that there will be a correction is that in weeding out bad developers, there will be various customers that will be affected (people that have bought property off plan but those that will not see their developments being delivered). There are already rumblings in the market of projects in Jumeirah village being cancelled by developers who cannot put the money into escrow. This will reverberate throughout the market in the short to medium term. 

I agree that in the medium to long term that there will be a net benefit (there is pretty much a consensus on this). I think though that a short term crisis of confidence period can be in store.


----------



## Morrismarina

sameerl said:


> The reason why i say that there will be a correction is that in weeding out bad developers, there will be various customers that will be affected (people that have bought property off plan but those that will not see their developments being delivered). There are already rumblings in the market of projects in Jumeirah village being cancelled by developers who cannot put the money into escrow. This will reverberate throughout the market in the short to medium term.
> 
> I agree that in the medium to long term that there will be a net benefit (there is pretty much a consensus on this). I think though that a short term crisis of confidence period can be in store.


If a project has already been launched before the new law then the funds do not have to put placed into escrow, so projects launched will not have to be cancelled.


----------



## glover

^^^^ Not true. But that doesn't mean I agree with Sameer on this point. Read on:

The law came into effect on June 28, 2007 upon publication in the Official Gazette. It applies to any developments where off-plan sales were launched after that date.

1. For developments that are already 70-80 per cent completed, the developer will not be required to open a trust account.

*2. For developments where work has started on site and passed the shoring stage, a trust account will need to be opened by December 28, 2007.

3. For developments that have not reached shoring stage, a trust account will need to be opened immediately, the Land Department said.*

if anything, what this means short, medium and long term is that it the cost of developing property in Dubai is going higher, and therefore there will be less developers in the market and thus relatively less supply.


----------



## IISinbadII

glover said:


> ^^^^ Not true. But that doesn't mean I agree with Sameer on this point. Read on:
> 
> The law came into effect on June 28, 2007 upon publication in the Official Gazette. It applies to any developments where off-plan sales were launched after that date.
> 
> 1. For developments that are already 70-80 per cent completed, the developer will not be required to open a trust account.
> 
> *2. For developments where work has started on site and passed the shoring stage, a trust account will need to be opened by December 28, 2007.
> 
> 3. For developments that have not reached shoring stage, a trust account will need to be opened immediately, the Land Department said.*


It says this law will apply on projects sold after June 28, 2007. 

Lets say a development is 70-80 per cent completed and now they start the sales. So the law will not be applied. The key point is the date they start selling the projects. So how can it apply on projects that started selling 6 months ago or 2 months ago?


----------



## ccjr

Krazy said:


> interesting rental and price averages for Dubai Marina... exaggerated or realistic?
> 
> http://restate.ae/en/neighborhoods/1-Dubai-Marina


We calculate the statistics in restate.ae from the current properties available and advertised on restate.ae itself, for example there are 147 listings available for sale and from them we calculate the current statistics.

We are improving the statistics calculation everyday, we still have an issue with the Office/Studio scenario but for all other statistics are accurate.

Please let us know your thoughts, any suggestions or number you would like to see.. by having a big database of listings we are able to calculate and produce almost any statistic... etc...


----------



## glover

my bad, i missed that. i stand corrected! however, i read somewhere that any complaints against a developer, even if this law does not apply, will force the land department to act and enforce this law on the developer!


----------



## High Times

glover said:


> ^^^^ Not true. But that doesn't mean I agree with Sameer on this point. Read on:
> 
> The law came into effect on June 28, 2007 upon publication in the Official Gazette. It applies to any developments where off-plan sales were launched after that date.
> 
> 1. For developments that are already 70-80 per cent completed, the developer will not be required to open a trust account.
> 
> *2. For developments where work has started on site and passed the shoring stage, a trust account will need to be opened by December 28, 2007.
> 
> 3. For developments that have not reached shoring stage, a trust account will need to be opened immediately, the Land Department said.*
> 
> if anything, what this means short, medium and long term is that it the cost of developing property in Dubai is going higher, and therefore there will be less developers in the market and thus relatively less supply.


^^ 

I agree.

As with any cost or restriction placed on any business the net result will mean that the price of the commodity that the company is building or selling will go up.

A bit like when an airline suffers fuel surcharges its us, the customer who foots the bill, some crooked airlines even use it as an excuse to profit from the scenario.

Escrow will ultimatley have the same effect on the property market in Dubai. If developers dont have free access to their funds in order to protect the customer, then their cash flow will be restricted (to a degree), there will inevitably be additional costs (borrowing,financing) incurred by this situation which devlopers will simply pass on to the customers.

Effectively resulting in price hikes to properties sold.

Dont get me wrong i think escrow protection is a good thing for the market but *Theres no such thing as a free lunch.*


----------



## Morrismarina

glover said:


> ^^^^ Not true. But that doesn't mean I agree with Sameer on this point. Read on:
> 
> The law came into effect on June 28, 2007 upon publication in the Official Gazette. It applies to any developments where off-plan sales were launched after that date.
> 
> 1. For developments that are already 70-80 per cent completed, the developer will not be required to open a trust account.
> 
> *2. For developments where work has started on site and passed the shoring stage, a trust account will need to be opened by December 28, 2007.
> 
> 3. For developments that have not reached shoring stage, a trust account will need to be opened immediately, the Land Department said.*
> 
> if anything, what this means short, medium and long term is that it the cost of developing property in Dubai is going higher, and therefore there will be less developers in the market and thus relatively less supply.


I must admit I'm totally confused now:

1. For a project to be already 70-80% completed it must have been launched prior to 28th June '07. So what the heck does this mean ? What about say a project only 69% completed or less, such as The Torch, presumably escrow does apply ??

2. Again how can a development be launched after 28th June and have reached shoring stage ?

Sounds to me like the escrow law certainly does apply to projects launched before 28th June otherwise points why have points 1 to 3. But this can't be right can it ? does anybody understand this ?


----------



## IISinbadII

Morrismarina said:


> I must admit I'm totally confused now:
> 
> 1. For a project to be already 70-80% completed it must have been launched prior to 28th June '07. So what the heck does this mean ? What about say a project only 69% completed or less, such as The Torch, presumably escrow does apply ??
> 
> 2. Again how can a development be launched after 28th June and have reached shoring stage ?
> 
> Sounds to me like the escrow law certainly does apply to projects launched before 28th June otherwise points why have points 1 to 3. But this can't be right can it ? does anybody understand this ?


I cant say anything for sure. But Emaar at times launches projects when the building is already several floors up. There could be other developers who do that(?). In this case law will apply to them if the project is less than 70% completed.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Imre's photo really shows how good JLT will be, a good invetment. The metro right outside and an easy walk to the marina mall and gourment tower for dinner. Will also have nice views of the marina from there, probaby better than from some towers in the marina as they are all blocking each other's views.


----------



## Morrismarina

IISinbadII said:


> I cant say anything for sure. But Emaar at times launches projects when the building is already several floors up. There could be other developers who do that(?). In this case law will apply to them if the project is less than 70% completed.


Thanks Sinbad, I think you're right, thinking about it developers can launch a project after a fair bit of work has been done, so points 1 to 3 cover this off. They're saying that if the development is 70-80% complete at *launch* ie. launched after 28.6.07 then escrow need not apply, which makes sense.
Anything launched prior to 28.6.07 escrow will not apply whatever stage the development has reached, hence of course why Damac have launched all their projects prior to this date.


----------



## sameerl

I was at the Lands dept yesterday and they have categorically stated that any project that has been launched but that has not been 70-80% complete by 28-7-07 is included in the escrow law. This means that all damac projects launched recently come under the ambit of the new law, as do other problematic projects like dubai lagoon,wind towers, dubai star and others. This also explains why there have already been some problems in jumeirah village and international city, wheerby developers have been asked to submit their sales registry to the master developer and have not done so.
Interesting days and weeks ahead.


----------



## glover

Sameer,

thanks for the info. maybe its a poor translation that's making the law, at least the English version, a little bit confusing. but i guess getting the information straight from the horse's mouth sets the record straight. Given the nature of the law, you would think that it would make sense that the law would apply retroactively in the way confirmed to you by the Land department.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

sameerl said:


> This means that all damac projects launched recently come under the ambit of the new law, as do other problematic projects like dubai lagoon,wind towers, dubai star and others.


This is probably why DAMAC are creating their own bank to get around the escrow law problem. I wonder if they will be allowed to do this.

Not sure what will happen to wind towers, dubai star etc.


----------



## Naz UK

Someone's gona be purchasing a lot of lubricant very soon.


----------



## Sheltie

I'm still a bit confused about it. We bought an apartment in the Snowdome Residences (Group 32) but nothing has started, does this mean that they have to get an escrow account which will protect our money?
We're getting a bit worried in case the project falls through.


----------



## Krazy

so if escrow law is indeed applicable to all projects, irrespective of the launch date, can we expect property prices to go up since no longer ppl who have invested in projects like wind towers will be trying to make a quick sale at low or zero premium and every investment will now come with a financial security?


----------



## Rider

Krazy said:


> so if escrow law is indeed applicable to all projects, irrespective of the launch date, can we expect property prices to go up since no longer ppl who have invested in projects like wind towers will be trying to make a quick sale at low or zero premium and every investment will now come with a financial security?


I think we could see prices rise for new developments since the inherent risk of off-plan purchasing to buyers will be reduced and the cost to developers in complying with the law will be passed on to the buyers. 

If this is the case, prices for existing developments should move in line with new ones.


----------



## jetsetter

I know that Dubai Select introduced the escrow thing voluntarily with Bay Central.

Does this mean they will need to do the same with The Torch and The Point?

Surely this must give investors a bit more piece of mind with non-established developers such as this...


----------



## Ali_Syed

Spoke to the canal residence west officials in regards to the canal's size. The length of the canal is 1km (1000 meters) and the width is 60 feet (18 meters).


----------



## mackie1964

If any of these companies go bust, the major creditors/banks/big boys get their monies and small investors get escrewed (screwed):bash:


----------



## abf

*escrow*

where can one find out if certain developers are at what stage


----------



## Morrismarina

sameerl said:


> I was at the Lands dept yesterday and they have categorically stated that any project that has been launched but that has not been 70-80% complete by 28-7-07 is included in the escrow law. This means that all damac projects launched recently come under the ambit of the new law, as do other problematic projects like dubai lagoon,wind towers, dubai star and others. This also explains why there have already been some problems in jumeirah village and international city, wheerby developers have been asked to submit their sales registry to the master developer and have not done so.
> Interesting days and weeks ahead.


Thanks for this but your posted simply says "project that has been launched". Now does this mean before 28.7.07 or after ?? or both ??

I still find it very hard to believe that projects launched prior to 28.7.07 are included in escrow law. After all, why have Damac rushed to launch so many projects prior to this date ? If it was going to apply to 99% of their projects anyway why the rush ?

Developers can't be expected to put investors funds into trust accounts for projects launched years ago, they couldn't possibly do this.


----------



## abf

you seem to be right - is there an official website?


----------



## Morrismarina

OK guys, I've sent an e-mail to Dubai Select who are building The Torch to see whether the new escrow law applies to the development. Will let you know what answer I get in a few days time.


----------



## sameerl

In response to queries:

1) Existing developments launched at whatever date come under the escrow law, if the project is not 70-8-% complete. I have spoken to lawyers, investors, developers as well as the lands dept. As i said earlier, master developers like emaar and nakheel are already contacting individual developers and asking them to show them thier sales registry.(this also explains why projects that have been launched prior to the escrow date have stopped advertising in the daily papers) Now as far as the evolution of the law
is concerned, what will probably happen is that the law will stipulate the creation of escrow for future instalments. This explains the rush of projects being launched. Atleast developesr like damac got thier first inslatment in. 

2) As i have been saying earlier, a lot of developments will suffer in the short to medium term, and investors will suffer as well. Some projects will get cancelled; in the long term this is beneficial to all.


----------



## Krazy

so the law is no good for people who have invested majority of the price in projects like wind towers and dubai lagoon


----------



## Morrismarina

sameerl said:


> In response to queries:
> 
> 1) Now as far as the evolution of the law is concerned, what will probably happen is that the law will stipulate the creation of escrow for future instalments.
> 
> 2) As i have been saying earlier, a lot of developments will suffer in the short to medium term, and investors will suffer as well. Some projects will get cancelled; in the long term this is beneficial to all.


So as far as point 1) is concerned you're saying the law does not at the present time force developers to pay funds into escrow accounts. Glad you are with me.

Point 2) This is not benefical to anybody. Investors could lose all their money paid to date if their developments get cancelled. I'm sure the escrow law wasn't introduced to have this sort of effect. I'm still convinced that he escrow law does not apply at all to anything launched prior to 28.7.07


----------



## sameerl

Gentlemen,

As I said, interesting days and weeks ahead. I have spent further time with the Lands dept today and then with a lawyer. I have had the following text approved by the laywer, so there should be no confusion (I have been doing all this for my own reasons, which are irrelevant for this discussion):

1) Existing developers have 6 months to comply with the escrow law. By end dec, they have to be regsitered with the lands dept and have provided the monies, or an equivalent bank guarantee to the dept for the monies collected. (my post above was speculative on my part where i suggested that future instalments would be covered). If they fail to do so, then they can and will be penalized.

2) All customers have the right to go to the lands dept and enquire whether the development has been resgitered. For existing developments further instalments cannot be called for by the developer unless that developer is in compliance with the escrow law.

This has caused quite a consternation. This was what i was referring to earlier when i satated that the transition to the new law will burn many investors and create a crisis of confidence as some developers fail to comply. Existing developers have already appealed to master developers seeking relief and clarification. The next few weeks promise to be eventful.


----------



## High Times

*Dubai talks to China on state fund tie-up*

Singapore: Dubai and Chinese officials have begun talks on cooperation between their state investment agencies even as China readies a vehicle that could wield as much as $200 billion. 

An executive of Dubai World said yesterday senior officials from both sides have already spoken about possible tie-ups, which could involve asset swaps. 

"We are starting to talk. The Chinese will be looking at investments that we already have in the Middle East and in Western regions of the world," Yu Lai Boon, chief investment officer at state-holding company Dubai World Group, said on the sidelines of a property conference in Singapore. "We will be looking at things within China itself. Whether it's asset swaps or tie-ups, we will consider it." 

Connection 


"At the highest level there is already a connection. But the next step is going to be at the various business-entity levels," he said, adding that Chinese Vice Premier Wu Yi had already visited Dubai. 

Yu said the financial sector would probably be the first area of cooperation between the two sides as China was keen to see its state-owned banks play a larger role in the international capital markets. 

"[The Chinese banks] will be interested in proposing investments to us or funding our investments because they want to have a bigger stake in the capital markets," Yu said. 

Dubai World, the investment holding company of the Dubai government with a multi-billion portfolio that includes British ports operator P&O to New York luxury retailer Barneys, last year bought a 2.7 per cent stake in Asia-focused bank Standard Chartered. *"[The market] is now dominated by American investment banks but the Chinese banks will be the next force to be reckoned with,"* Yu added.


----------



## Morrismarina

The real estate market in Dubai, as the world knows, has developed at a pace never before seen with the population and size of Dubai increasing dramatically in the last five years.

Most of this development has been financed through offplan sales by Developers to end users, and concerns have
been expressed by purchasers of properties for the security of payments made by them in advance to Developers based
on “off-plan” schemes, often with a substantial proportion of the funds being paid before the development has even
progressed above ground. This has been the trigger for the Dubai Government and his Highness Sheikh Mohammed
Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, in his capacity as Ruler of Dubai, to approve a new Law:“Regulating Escrow Accounts in the Property Developmentin the Emirate of Dubai”, which was published in the Official Gazette of Dubai (323) on 28 June 2007.

WHO DOES IT APPLY TO?
The Law will apply to any Developer that sells off-plan units in multistorey buildings or residential or commercial
estates in Dubai where the Developer is collecting “on account” installments during the construction of the
project. There has been some debate as to whether the Law will apply to existing Developers and to existing
projects. The Law prohibits any Developer from carrying on the business of “off-plan sales” unless it is registered
and licensed by the Department of Lands and Properties of Dubai (“the Department”). Article 18 says that existing
Developers are obliged to bring themselves in line with the Law within 6 months of its publication in the Offi cial
Gazette (i.e. on or before 28 December 2007) but that the Department may extend the deadline as it deems
appropriate from time to time. Therefore it remains unclear as to whether the Law will apply to its full extent
to existing Developers and developments, but it does seem to suggest that it will.

PRINCIPAL EFFECTS
The Law is designed to control the way in which projects are sold “off-plan” in Dubai and to protect Purchasers in
respect of phased payments made to a Developer during the course of a construction project and in advance of title
being transferred into the Purchasers individual name.The Law provides for: all off-plan sales programs now being subject to prior
approval by the Department; all Developers are required to be licensed by the Department in a “Register of Property Developers”. No
Developer will be able to conduct business in the Emirate of Dubai unless it is so registered with the Department;

The Impact of the New Dubai Escrow Law:
The opening of Escrow Accounts in respect of each individual project by a Developer, and in order to do so
the Developer will be obliged to give advance notice to the Department of any off plan project and submit a
number of documents including the Developer's trade license, membership of Dubai Chamber of Commerce,
the title deed to the land and so forth to the Department as part of the approval process;
the appointment of a number of “Escrow Account Trustees” (“Trustees”) who will be fi nancial or banking
institutions approved by the Department to operate an Escrow Account;
an Escrow Account to be opened in accordance with a written agreement to be entered into between the
Developer and the Trustee under which any amounts paid by Purchasers of off-plan units or which the
Developer receives from their fi nanciers or its own fi nanciers are to be deposited in this Account to be
opened with the Trustee in the name of the project.
The conditions for the operation of the Account and the terms for withdrawal will be the subject of the
agreement with the Trustee and are not laid down in the Law itself;
the Law allows for Sub-Developers or Master Developers, and individual plot and unit Purchasers to register their
contracts for purchase with the Department who will note the fact that the agreements have been entered into against
the title to the plot in question in the Register; the Department will maintain a special Register called
the “Register of Account Trustees” and in order to qualify as a Trustee the relevant institution or bank must
be “highly qualifi ed for the management of the Escrow Account”. A number of Dubai based banks including
Dubai Islamic Bank have announced that they have been licensed;
the Trustee will be obliged to provide regular updates to the Department on the operation of the Account
including movements of cash in and out of the Account and so forth; a retention of 5% to be held in respect of all Purchasers
money paid into the Escrow Account until 12 months after registration of the unit in the name of the
Purchaser, which can only happen following completion of the handover of the unit in question. This maypresent some difficulties to individual developersoutside the “freehold areas”.

ENFORCEMENT PROVISIONS
The Department is tasked with policing of the Escrow Accounts and the performance of the Developers and
Trustees, and can request information on a regular basis and require any data to be provided to it that it deems
necessary. The Department can determine that a breach of the Law has occurred and will be responsible for notifying
the Trustee in writing of any violations and providing a period within which such violation can be rectified.
The Law provides for a series of penalties in relation to breaches of the Law including imprisonment and fi nes of
not less than AED 100,000, and these sanctions can be imposed not only on Developers or Trustees for breach of
the Law, but can extend to auditors, consultants and others involved in the development process who are knowingly
involved in breaches of the Law. In addition, a Developer can be subject to such penalties for transacting business
with a broker who is not registered as a property brokerwith the Department.

OTHER PROTECTION
Payments made into an Escrow Account are to be ring fenced in terms of insolvency and no attachment order
can be granted to creditors in respect of monies paid into an Escrow Account and therefore any funds within
the Account are protected against the insolvency of the Developer. In the event that the Developer is declared
bankrupt or fails to commence construction works within 6 months after obtaining approval of an off-plan sale,
or has its license revoked, or otherwise is in breach of the Law or any regulations issued under it, then the Developer
can be “de-registered” at the Department and prohibited from carrying out development activities in Dubai.

FURTHER DEVELOPMENTS
The Act provides for the Chairman of the Department to issue resolutions for the enforcement of the provisions
of the Law and it is envisaged that further enabling regulations/rules will be introduced by the Department.
In addition, of course, the Department are currently considering draft legislation to deal with ownership of
“horizontal property” or “strata/condominium laws” along with laws to deal with Homeowners Associations
in respect of Master Communities, and these laws are expected to be passed in the near future.

OUTLOOK
The Law is clearly a welcome addition to the real estate regulatory regime and further enhances Dubai reputation
as a jurisdiction in which it is safe and attractive to invest. The Ruler has shown the desire and willingness to regulate
the real estate market in Dubai, through the introduction of a system of compulsory registration, the widening of
the ownership of real estate to non-Nationals in designated areas, and now the introduction of protection for purchasers
in respect of off-plan sales.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

How will this affect DAMAC?

*In the event that the Developer *is declared bankrupt or *fails to commence construction works within 6 months after obtaining approval of an off-plan sale*, or has its license revoked, or otherwise is in breach of the Law or any regulations issued under it, *then the Developer can be “de-registered” at the Department and prohibited from carrying out development activities in Dubai.*


----------



## malec

They could easily just dig a tiny hole and say "construction started", then do nothing for a while.


----------



## Hanna

Dubai_Steve said:


> How will this affect DAMAC?
> 
> *In the event that the Developer *is declared bankrupt or *fails to commence construction works within 6 months after obtaining approval of an off-plan sale*, or has its license revoked, or otherwise is in breach of the Law or any regulations issued under it, *then the Developer can be “de-registered” at the Department and prohibited from carrying out development activities in Dubai.*


Hi Dubai Steve

That is a good question they must be up to something they have been very quite since the law was announced.As you may remember they are the first ones to go to the papers and announce things like we are Dubai biggest private property developer and all the rest of the bull they put out,we did not see them rush out and announce we are Dubai's first 'private' property developer to impliment the new escrow law.I am sure they new about this law on the very first day it was talked about by the highest authourity on the subject.So the big question is what will they do when the time limit is up around December 'open there own bank' as the rumours said in Skyscraper city.There owner does not want to open all there accounts to be scrutinised by the Government departments I bet,I have had past history with the accounts Dept in Damac and to put it mildly they were a 'shambles' and I suspect they still are a 'shambles'.Damac have about 6 months to come clean then we will see what they are up to,in the past because of the Government protection and gagging papers with threat of lawsuits they ran the business like drunken cowboys on a permenant Hooray.This time it is different they have to comply with the law and the big question is how can they get round it without showing there accounts to outsiders. :cheers:


----------



## avion1

*Summer Promotions*

http://www.dubaiproperties4sale.com/Champion-Tower-4.htm


Champion Tower 4 offes Lake View and Golf course View. Location looks very good.

Developer of Champion Tower 4 is offering during summer promotion. 

1. Free Parking
2. Rental Guarantee.
3. Free Maintenance.
4. Buy Back facility.
5. Easy Payment Plan


----------



## Naz UK

Dubai_Steve said:


> How will this affect DAMAC?
> 
> *In the event that the Developer *is declared bankrupt or *fails to commence construction works within 6 months after obtaining approval of an off-plan sale*, or has its license revoked, or otherwise is in breach of the Law or any regulations issued under it, *then the Developer can be “de-registered” at the Department and prohibited from carrying out development activities in Dubai.*


Not sure really, but the image of someone bent spreadeagled over a mahagony pub stool and a well lubcricated rolling pin comes to mind.


----------



## Morrismarina

Naz UK said:


> Not sure really, but the image of someone bent spreadeagled over a mahagony pub stool and a well lubcricated rolling pin comes to mind.


Mr Riddoch being the recipient I assume. 

Actually I had the same image but in mine there was no lubricant !! :lol:


----------



## Hanna

Morrismarina said:


> Mr Riddoch being the recipient I assume.
> 
> Actually I had the same image but in mine there was no lubricant !! :lol:


Hi Morris


That would be some site Riddoch in a kilt with a rolling pin hanging there :cheers:


----------



## High Times

^^ 

Great to see some first hand real experience and views of the Dubai property market on here instead of the usual bullshit.

Great news for investors too if things are able to sell without too much effort.

Looks like the so called bubble isn't gonna burst just yet.


----------



## Naz UK

Real estate agents and banks are the two illegitimate children of the Devil himself. They're pretty much shit the world over. When you put the two together, you get a recipe for utter chaos and a demonstration of the lowest form of human ineptitude, which unfortunately most human beings become victims of at least once in their lives.

In Dubai, ^^ this whole situation is currently running at 10x magnification, at twice the speed, with a quadrupling of the ingredients, and with the "warning label" peeled off.


----------



## Imre

last week I met somebody who wants to buy apartment in Dubai Marina.He told me that one of the real estate agency offered him the KG Tower, especially the power station side and they said that is no problem because after 6 months it will be removed.:lol: 

I have heard another story with this, power station will be removed and coming there Dubai Marina 2 :lol:


----------



## jeetha

Imre said:


> I have heard another story with this, power station will be ramoved and coming there Dubai Marina 2 :lol:


Imre… that will not surprise me at all.


----------



## carpetking

I need your help,

How much was the launch price for a Studio-Appartment in Silvere Towers ?


----------



## mission

Silverene
ID Developer Development Community Type Bedroom View Area Price 
#S701B CAYAN Silverene Apartment 2 Marina 1214 Sq.ft AED 1,410,000/- 
#S609A CAYAN Silverene Apartment 2 Panoramic Marina 1568 Sq.ft AED 2,050,000/- 
#S1801A CAYAN Silverene Apartment 3 Prime Marina 2023 Sq.ft AED 2,130,000/- 
#S1907A CAYAN Silverene Apartment 3 Panoramic Marina 1972 Sq.ft AED 2,690,000/- 
#S1414B CAYAN Silverene Apartment 2 Prime Marina 1214 Sq.ft AED 1,460,000/- 
#S2401A CAYAN Silverene Apartment 3 Prime Marina 2023 Sq.ft AED 2,190,000/- 
#SR1307B CAYAN Silverene Apartment Studio Prime Marina 607 Sq.ft AED 695,000/-


----------



## mission

Silverene


Designed by RMJM, one of the world’s top architects, this marvel of architecture offers 35 floors in Tower A and 26 floors in Tower B. It encompasses all the benefits of waterfront living, topped by a unique interior treatment. A captivating glass and mirror effect reflects the blue waters and maximizes the breathtaking view on each floor.
Within the towers, you have a large swimming pool, a kids pool, sun deck, and a state-of-the-art gymnasium in each tower. Residents can indulge and enjoy the towers’ coffee shops, restaurants and retail outlets. And on each apartment, floor to ceiling windows give residents a panoramic visual treat. Fully equipped kitchen, high-end finishes and fittings enhance the cutting-edge design. 
Silverene is located in Dubai Marina, possibly the world’s most exclusive waterfront development, where a stylish, sophisticated lifestyle has been created to delight its residents. In between the new Marina Mall and Al Majara community, Silverene enjoys boat harbours in front of the towers and is only minutes away from one of the region's largest boat harbours.
Project Type: 
Location: 
Type of Units: 
Facilities & Amenities:











Interiors: 
2 Residential Waterfront Towers
Dubai Marina 
studio, 1,2 & 3 bedrooms, duplexes and penthouses, retail 
Great location on Dubai Marina
Large swimming pool
Sun deck and kids pool
State-of-the-art gymnasium 
Retails stores on the promenade 
Walking distance to the marina mall 
In front of boating berths
Close to the yacht club 
Spacious rooms 
24 hour building security 
Basement Parking 
Floor to ceiling windows
Marble and porcelain flooring 
Fully equipped Kitchens
High-end finishes and fittings 
Spacious living rooms

Payment Plan 
20% - Now 
10% - November 2007 
10% - April 2008 
10% - September 2008 
10% - February 2009 
10% - July 2009 
30% - On Completion


----------



## carpetking

Thanks mission for the details,i know the developer is Cayan,i am thinking
to buy a studio there,but the prices goes up day by day.


----------



## mission

Its is really expensive i thought.

Doesent tp have anything left?


----------



## carpetking

I think Timeplace is on of the best location,and the prices gone up here.You can see the first offer direkt from an owner,750 sq/ft,1bed,18th floor
for 1.2 or more.The orign price in 2004 was 650K Dhs :uh:
you can see Timeplace is a very good investment.

Now i am looking to buy a second property in Silverene,a studio 607 sq/st
is going to cost 695K Dhs.


----------



## Naz UK

Offers from owners isn't an indication of value of property. You need to look at actual selling prices. I'd like 22million Dirhams for my 1-bed in the Torch. Not sure if i'll get that much though.


----------



## ferrari430

^^ Dubai is a strange place - I have bought 3 resale properties so far and am still looking - in my experience no seller wants to bargain or consider putting prices down - in fact if you put an offer lot of them get offended and put prices up further :bash: happened to me a quite a number of times - so they either hold on for longer untill the market catches up or the buyer gives in


----------



## iamici

Hey, ferrari if you are looking, maybe you have a better idea of prices than most. Any idea what my type c 813 sq ft with balcony 20th floor 1 bed flat would be worth? non lake view.

I tried asking betterhomes and they replied with a request for all my contract papers and asked me to sign their agency agreement with no indication as to price. 

I m actually minded to sell it, as I think I need a bigger flat now, and was wondering if it is in profit or not. 

Ooops its Churchill Residence, in Business Bay by Deyaar.


----------



## IISinbadII

ferrari430 said:


> ^^ Dubai is a strange place - I have bought 3 resale properties so far and am still looking - in my experience no seller wants to bargain or consider putting prices down - in fact if you put an offer lot of them get offended and put prices up further :bash: happened to me a quite a number of times - so they either hold on for longer untill the market catches up or the buyer gives in


Its a sellers market, esp. because of all the delays the supply side is slow. Also you are deling with investors not home-owners. Consider buying directly from the developer. This way you could save money on commissions and transfer fees. Also its much faster and cleaner.


----------



## montranieri

*Finishing problems*

I got email from developer flat was ready for handover and to bring final payment to get keys. I asked to do snagging before getting keys and pay. Snagging was a disaster. Some problem can be fixed, others no. For example some tiles have different colour in the flat and also in the common areas (corridors). Very agly.
As you know to solve the problem they should change all the tiles since it is impossible to find same tiles color if you buy a new lot. Tiles order production should be the same to ensure same tonality.
Now I am fighting with developer. Apparently developer say consultant accepted that crap and so it is fine. Also in the contract there is written that in case of dispute about quality of the finishing between seller and buyer , consultant has the final word. 
Since the consultant stand of course with its client (the developer), what we can do when consultant accept something that is clearly not ok. We are just asking to get a new flat and not a 20 years old badly fixed look like thing.

Any suggestion ?


----------



## rexdmx

i doubt it. the reasons are he probably hasn't met agents with his best interest at heart. second of all a good agent would come to know of the best deals before even some people in the developer's office to be honest!
yes you can save money on transfer fee and commission but the good ones are sold out and you are left with the mediocre ones.

better to buy a good project say burj views at 15% premium (just assuming) rather than buying a project in a desert like say IMPZ with no credible proof of construction!

faster and cleaner? sinbad it all depends on the situation...  




IISinbadII said:


> Its a sellers market, esp. because of all the delays the supply side is slow. Also you are deling with investors not home-owners. Consider buying directly from the developer. This way you could save money on commissions and transfer fees. Also its much faster and cleaner.


----------



## rexdmx

if you are still looking to buy, my advise in order to increase your premiums steadily is to buy in abu dhabi.
al reef villas and hydra villas are doing to well, it is the silent seller and it is incredible...there are literally not much villa projects in abu dhabi.
the prices are quite low..the premiums last month was 5%, now it is 16% for the two bedrooms although you can still get some for 13% all inclusive.
these are good investment opportunity and it has sold out completely from the developer...better buy from a good consultant who would walk you through it

PS: most sellers dont get desperate  




ferrari430 said:


> ^^ Dubai is a strange place - I have bought 3 resale properties so far and am still looking - in my experience no seller wants to bargain or consider putting prices down - in fact if you put an offer lot of them get offended and put prices up further :bash: happened to me a quite a number of times - so they either hold on for longer untill the market catches up or the buyer gives in


----------



## rexdmx

wouldn't want you to sell it now... you are shortchanging yourself.
churchill is actuall a splendid project and if you want you can buy more without selling this asset at this time except of course if it was for personal use and not investment.
:cheers: 




iamici said:


> Hey, ferrari if you are looking, maybe you have a better idea of prices than most. Any idea what my type c 813 sq ft with balcony 20th floor 1 bed flat would be worth? non lake view.
> 
> I tried asking betterhomes and they replied with a request for all my contract papers and asked me to sign their agency agreement with no indication as to price.
> 
> I m actually minded to sell it, as I think I need a bigger flat now, and was wondering if it is in profit or not.
> 
> Ooops its Churchill Residence, in Business Bay by Deyaar.


----------



## High Times

montranieri said:


> I got email from developer flat was ready for handover and to bring final payment to get keys. I asked to do snagging before getting keys and pay. Snagging was a disaster. Some problem can be fixed, others no. For example some tiles have different colour in the flat and also in the common areas (corridors). Very agly.
> As you know to solve the problem they should change all the tiles since it is impossible to find same tiles color if you buy a new lot. Tiles order production should be the same to ensure same tonality.
> Now I am fighting with developer. Apparently developer say consultant accepted that crap and so it is fine. Also in the contract there is written that in case of dispute about quality of the finishing between seller and buyer , consultant has the final word.
> Since the consultant stand of course with its client (the developer), what we can do when consultant accept something that is clearly not ok. We are just asking to get a new flat and not a 20 years old badly fixed look like thing.
> 
> Any suggestion ?


If there arn't any rights to arbitration in you contract then you have basicaly agreed to this process so not a lot you can do as an individual.

If you say that communal areas are also sub standard, then on previous investments in other countries i have managed to get enough investers to complain on mass and then you may have more of a chance of the developer listening.


----------



## IISinbadII

rexdmx said:


> i doubt it. the reasons are he probably hasn't met agents with his best interest at heart. second of all a good agent would come to know of the best deals before even some people in the developer's office to be honest!


I feel that even the agents are helpless when it comes to the secondary market. The seller is the king.



> yes you can save money on transfer fee and commission but the good ones are sold out and you are left with the mediocre ones.


Naturally you are not going to get the best deals which big investors get. But at least with developers like Emaar you can get a fairly good chance if you are willing to get in line early and have done your homework.



> better to buy a good project say burj views at 15% premium (just assuming) rather than buying a project in a desert like say IMPZ with no credible proof of construction!


Agree with you 100%. 



> faster and cleaner? sinbad it all depends on the situation...


Again, I was talking about the top developers......Emaar, Nakheel and to some extent DP.


----------



## Imre

i think the studio.


----------



## carpetking

Thanks to all,i will go to bed and dream from properties :nuts:


----------



## Imre

Krazy said:


> at least that's the way the market is behaving right now.. studios renting out easily irrespective of the view


I know just the MD2 , studio price was t 75K with good view and high floor and 70K with low floor and bad view.(in the first months ,65K). I dont know the price now because nothing available at the moment.


----------



## lovedubai

The type 7 studio on Silverene will have a pretty good marina view anyway (at least from the side). The 1 bed doesn't have a balcony. I know you can't use them for 6 months of the year, but for the other 6 months it seems a waste having a brilliant location by the water and not being able to sit outside and enjoy it in the evening.


----------



## IISinbadII

carpetking said:


> Imre,i can get a Studio Type 7 Tower B,Silverene for 695K (607sq/ft)part.marina view
> 
> or the Type 3 1Bed, Tower B,Silverene for 950K (637 sq/ft) direct marina view
> 
> what is the better investment ????


I dont know which one would be a better investment. But if I had the money, I would go with something with marina view. In a few years time who knows where the merket would go, but your unit will always have an edge. You would be fearless to show it to any prospective buyer..... Nice to stand by the window or balcony with marina view with boats sailing by or the lights from other towers reflecting in the water, and ask for an offer. A thing of beauty is a joy forever. 

On the other hand, smaller units are said to move fast.


----------



## Krazy

*Premium for Dubai villas skyrockets*


Premium for secondary market sales of villas in The Meadows and The Palm Jumeirah jumped 207 per cent and 195 per cent, respectively, in the second quarter of 2007, according to a property management firm.

“Demand for villas is high as average household size of both national and expatriate families tends to be high. Furthermore, villas are regarded a luxury product, are of better quality and in limited supply compared to apartments,” John Allen, Asteco’s Director Consultation, Research and Valuations told Emirates Today.

The overall average premium for villas was at 79 per cent during the same period, while apartment premiums averaged only 26 per cent.

The rent cap and expectations of forthcoming supply assisted in softening Dubai’s apartment prices.

Rentals too have increased in both new and old Dubai areas at an average of 12 per cent.Villas in Al Garhoud and Umm Suqueim witnessed the highest rental increases of 15 and 14 per cent, respectively, with Umm Suqueim and Al Safa annual rentals varying between Dh280,000 and Dh515,000.

Villas in Jumeirah Islands and Hattan showed the highest increases in New Dubai of 28 per cent and 17 per cent, respectively.

“Demand is high for freehold and rented villas, as both are limited in supply.

“However, in 2008, rents are likely to fall as bulk of the new units are expected to be delivered,” Allen said.

The annual residential (apartments, villas, town homes) units supplied factoring in a 20 per cent delay in completion of units, is estimated to be 34,835, 66,991 and 61,616 in 2007, 2008 and 2009, respectively.

Only about five per cent of these developments are estimated to be villas.

“Project delays will leave a portion of demand unmet, which will create excess demand for the next year.The net effect would be a situation of under supply till 2008. An oversupply situation is possible in 2009 with an excess of around 9,500 units,” Allen said.


----------



## IISinbadII

Interesting stats for Apartments: 

-*JLT* prices have gone up faster then that of *Dubai Marina*.
-*Business Bay* is lagging far behind.

WHY???????



Krazy said:


>


----------



## Krazy

Here's what I think ^^ 

to answer your first question... it's because JLT prices started appreciating only in the last 18 months or so whereas Marina has been on the market for ages now. Marina from here on will only see steady appreciation, not the spike that we saw in 2002-05. 

As for Business Bay, the prices are way too high already for an area that's nothing but sand right now.. its year of appreciation will probably be 2009 with the completion of the phase 1 and burj dubai.


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> Here's what I think ^^
> 
> to answer your first question... it's because JLT prices started appreciating only in the last 18 months or so whereas Marina has been on the market for ages now. Marina from here on will only see steady appreciation, not the spike that we saw in 2002-05.
> 
> As for Business Bay, the prices are way too high already for an area that's nothing but sand right now.. its year of appreciation will probably be 2009 with the completion of the phase 1 and burj dubai.


Should this be taken as an opportunity. I mean should one invest at places that are lagging behind cus the prices are low (for any reason) and will spike in a few years. Or does that mean that the areas that have done well will continue to do well?

In other words, do we see a trend here that will continue OR is this an act of balancing out.


----------



## rexdmx

*Dubai realtors seek cheap land*

By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: August 28, 2007, 23:05


Dubai: Dubai's private developers will not build much-needed low-cost housing unless the government facilitates cheap land, property developers say.

Ahmad Al Abdullah, chairman of New Dubai Properties, which has a portfolio of 22 projects worth Dh15 billion, says skyrocketing land prices mean developers are mostly building office blocks, hotels or luxurious residential projects, which offer healthier returns on investment than mid- to low-range units. 

The fact that purchasing power of residents across the income spectrum is being eroded as house prices escalate is considered a serious threat to Dubai's ability to attract the talent it needs to develop further.

Option 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We will build affordable housing if the government provides us with land at a good price and tells us not to raise rent above a certain level, for example Dh40,000 to Dh50,000 for a two bedroom apartment," said Al Abdullah. 

"If the value of a plot is very high, we will only build a project that can cover our initial investment."

Addressing Dubai's stock of low-cost housing has been high on the government's agenda.

Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive of the newly formed Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), recently said the body is developing a comprehensive Real Estate Index to assess the market and make recommendations to the government on proposed regulations.

Meanwhile, the Dubai Urban Development Framework, an initiative which will dictate Dubai's urban development to the year 2020, will address the emirate's decline in housing affordability over the past three years. 

*Al Abdullah said the price of land represents around 40 per cent of the value of a project, while the rest consists of construction costs, which have also increased significantly.*

He said office towers provide developers with significantly more income than residential projects. Of the company's 22 project portfolio, 12 are commercial, six are hotels and only four are residential. 

*The lack of cheap land in Dubai has forced private developers to consider other emirates including Ajman, where land is significantly cheaper.*
Average values continue to climb

According to property services company Asteco, average land values climbed 35 per cent in 2006 and 24 per cent this year. Freehold land at Dubai Marina that was worth Dh160 per square foot (on the built up area) in 2005 is valued at Dh270 per square foot now - a 68 per cent increase. 

Meanwhile, at Dubai Waterfront near Palm Jebel Ali, land valued at Dh90 per square feet in 2005 surged to Dh210 per square foot this year - a 130 per cent increase in just two years.


----------



## rexdmx

usually it would make sense to invest in the places which are low but then the property should be undervalued in the first place.

you can still find undervalued properties in place like JLT, abu dhabi, burj area (south ridge,burj views), and the northern emirates

if you buy an office for example in business bay that is around 1700 per sq ft for investment which is not getting ready until 2009, it would make better sense to purchase an office in jlt like one lake or indigo towerwhich is getting ready next year, is opposite the marina, has a metro station close by and is within distance of everything else...
they are a few properties like DEC business tower...the prices were quite low and did constitute a bargain

JLT is quite good because not only the location is splendid but it has 3 metro station and has about 80 buildings. this is quite a low supply compared to say dubai marina which has over 200 buildings

for marina, the reason why it would probably have steady appreciation as krazy assumes because people would buy not because of the "investment quality" but because of the *ego factor*

it really feels good to say "i live in the marina" it is like say monaco or spain where even if the prices are high, people still want to buy because of the lifestyle such a place promises IMO..


----------



## IISinbadII

rexdmx said:


> for marina, the reason why it would probably have steady appreciation as krazy assumes because people would buy not because of the "investment quality" but because of the *ego factor*
> 
> it really feels good to say "i live in the marina" it is like say monaco or spain where even if the prices are high, people still want to buy because of the lifestyle such a place promises IMO..


Yes, but its not just the ego factor. Marina offers you a lot of "extras" that you can enjoy everyday (along with your apartment). The breathtaking views of the marina water, the boats and access to the beach, the resturants, etc.


----------



## Alt-Tab

http://www.ameinfo.com/130276.html








Nakheel launches Al Furjan
Nakheel, one of the world's largest privately-held property developers, today announced the launch of Al Furjan - a new approach to a family oriented community development located in the heart of new Dubai.
United Arab Emirates: 46 minutes ago PRESS RELEASE 


Al Furjan represents an outstanding opportunity, offering a range of choices within a superbly master planned community. 

Boasting over 4,000 elegant homes complemented by an abundance of open spaces and a multitude of amenities, Al Furjan is a new model for community living. Inspired by 'new urbanism' principles, the development captures the values of traditional neighbourhood living within four communities. The neighborhoods provide a sanctuary of well planned spaces framed by architecture and landscape design that celebrate local history and embrace modern building practice. Each community will be defined by its own Village Centre offering a variety of amenities from supermarkets, coffee shops, restaurants, open spaces and gym facilities all within walking distance. Two schools are also planned for Al Furjan. 

Mohammed Rashed Bin Dhabeah, Director, Al Furjan, said: 


'We are delighted to announce the launch of Al Furjan. The name Al Furjan is a local phrase that means a collection of homes or a small village, that embodies traditional community values. Inspired by new urbanism, we have created a master plan that has used planning and architectural principles that will work together to create a human-scale, pedestrian friendly, family focused development.'



Al Furjan combines 3, 5 and 6 bedroom villas and terraced homes with open spaces for children and families to interact. Inspired by traditional designs, villas in the first phase of the development will be one of two styles; the Dubai, a favoured local architectural style, or the Quortaj, a fusion of Islamic and Mediterranean architecture. 

Innovative design details are incorporated in every aspect of the development from the creative use of community spaces to the open feel of the villas and terrace homes, which are easily adapted for Western or Arabic living. Residents have the choice between a selection of home styles on different plot sizes which will result in more diverse streetscapes. 

Within Al Furjan, landscaped pedestrian pathways are woven into the neighbourhoods connecting cul-de-sacs and open spaces, providing a natural connectivity throughout the communities. 

Mohammed Rashed Bin Dhabeah continued: 

'Al Furjan provides choices for different budgets, tastes and needs with a variety that is distinctive in the region. We have designed Al Furjan with families in mind and the planning principles adopted, complimented by the range of amenities within and surrounding Al Furjan, will create an ideal community to invest in for you and your family to grow.' 

A private launch was held on the 26th August exclusively for Johara, the VIP ladies banking division of the Dubai Islamic Bank. The general sales launch will commence on 5th September.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ heard about this...my friend is already going there hope to get more info.


----------



## Naz UK

How is anything within this development "new"? What a load of bullshit. They're so scared to launch as "same old, cheesy, vanilla flavoured run-of-the-mill" over-priced housing. Yes ok, it doesn't quite have the same ring to it, but at least its honest. If only honesty wasn't banned in Dubai.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Hi all

I just have a quick question that I hope someone know the answer to. I have several apartments in JBR and I already rent out some of them. Normally I am quite into the rules but I think I misunderstood one important point regarding this 7 % rent cap. It should be said that I am not living in Dubai and therefore I have not been following the latest changes/rules regarding renting. I actually thought that I was allowed to raise the rent 7% every year - but now I am told that I have to wait 3 years before I can raise the rent. Is this really so ? Well, if this is true - there is nothing to do about it - and on the other side I am satisfied with the current rent I get. It is just nice to know the facts - and in this case quite important. I am renting through Premier real estate.

Kind regards Morten


----------



## was2103

Morten_Denmark said:


> Hi all
> 
> I just have a quick question that I hope someone know the answer to. I have several apartments in JBR and I already rent out some of them. Normally I am quite into the rules but I think I misunderstood one important point regarding this 7 % rent cap. It should be said that I am not living in Dubai and therefore I have not been following the latest changes/rules regarding renting. I actually thought that I was allowed to raise the rent 7% every year - but now I am told that I have to wait 3 years before I can raise the rent. Is this really so ? Well, if this is true - there is nothing to do about it - and on the other side I am satisfied with the current rent I get. It is just nice to know the facts - and in this case quite important. I am renting through Premier real estate.
> 
> Kind regards Morten


Dubai law has moved from over-protection of the landlord to the over-protection of the tennents. You are only allowed to raise the rent after the completion of a 2 year term. E.g. the rent is fixed for the second year. The third year is limited to a 7% cap.

Very surprised the Premier did not advise you of this...


----------



## IISinbadII

was2103 said:


> Dubai law has moved from over-protection of the landlord to the over-protection of the tennents. You are only allowed to raise the rent after the completion of a 2 year term. E.g. the rent is fixed for the second year. The third year is limited to a 7% cap...


What if the contract is only for 12 months. Can one raise the rent and keep a new tennent every year? If yes, does the 7% limit apply for new tennents too. Thanks.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

was2103 said:


> Dubai law has moved from over-protection of the landlord to the over-protection of the tennents. You are only allowed to raise the rent after the completion of a 2 year term. E.g. the rent is fixed for the second year. The third year is limited to a 7% cap.
> 
> Very surprised the Premier did not advise you of this...


Thank you very much WAS2103. So it is only two years. The contract is only for 12 months but I am now quite sure that the tennant has the right to continue unless I want to move in myself. 

What will then happen the fourth year ? 

Well, Premier is quite Ok and in general has been very honest - no complications there - I was informed about the 7% cap but exactly this point I was not told that it is a two-year period. 

It is a bit of a downer regarding JBR because the place is not 100% completed regarding beach clubs, pools etc and the rent is therefore not yet optimal. But on the other hand the tennant has to live with this for at least 6 months more. I dont mind that the tennant has these right but as an investor you start feeling a bit unsecure when rules are changed quite dramatically - and what will come next.


----------



## ferrari430

Morten_Denmark said:


> Hi all
> 
> I just have a quick question that I hope someone know the answer to. I have several apartments in JBR and I already rent out some of them. Normally I am quite into the rules but I think I misunderstood one important point regarding this 7 % rent cap. It should be said that I am not living in Dubai and therefore I have not been following the latest changes/rules regarding renting. I actually thought that I was allowed to raise the rent 7% every year - but now I am told that I have to wait 3 years before I can raise the rent. Is this really so ? Well, if this is true - there is nothing to do about it - and on the other side I am satisfied with the current rent I get. It is just nice to know the facts - and in this case quite important. I am renting through Premier real estate.
> 
> Kind regards Morten


Morten, interested to know how much you are renting out studios,1,2 beds for in JBR. Also how easy/difficult was it to rent out i.e. how long did it take. Could be interested in a JBR investment myself


----------



## dubaiquote

I have some property i want to sell , am i allowed to post it on here or not , just thought id ask before i did it ..


----------



## Krazy

^^ no


----------



## was2103

IISinbadII said:


> What if the contract is only for 12 months. Can one raise the rent and keep a new tennent every year? If yes, does the 7% limit apply for new tennents too. Thanks.


If the contract explicitly states; NOT RENEWABLE, you might have a case. But even still, if you kick someone out just to raise the rent, no one is going to love you anymore. Certainly not me. And if the authorities catch on, you could have a bigger problem on your hands.

That is the whole idea of the law, to protect the tennents that have recently taken a real kick in the balls with the endlessly escalating rents.

You can then charge the market rate and no 7% cap applies.


----------



## was2103

ferrari430 said:


> Morten, interested to know how much you are renting out studios,1,2 beds for in JBR. Also how easy/difficult was it to rent out i.e. how long did it take. Could be interested in a JBR investment myself


Me to please.


----------



## was2103

Morten_Denmark said:


> Thank you very much WAS2103. So it is only two years. The contract is only for 12 months but I am now quite sure that the tennant has the right to continue unless I want to move in myself.
> 
> What will then happen the fourth year ?
> 
> Well, Premier is quite Ok and in general has been very honest - no complications there - I was informed about the 7% cap but exactly this point I was not told that it is a two-year period.
> 
> It is a bit of a downer regarding JBR because the place is not 100% completed regarding beach clubs, pools etc and the rent is therefore not yet optimal. But on the other hand the tennant has to live with this for at least 6 months more. I dont mind that the tennant has these right but as an investor you start feeling a bit unsecure when rules are changed quite dramatically - and what will come next.


What will come next? A huge return on your investment that you most likely could not have earned anywhere else without significantly higher risks. Most likely in one or two cheques and then year-round sunshine, not just 6 months every year.

Excuse the sarcasm if it offends, but if you enjoyed, I've got loads more.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

was2103 said:


> What will come next? A huge return on your investment that you most likely could not have earned anywhere else without significantly higher risks. Most likely in one or two cheques and then year-round sunshine, not just 6 months every year.
> 
> Excuse the sarcasm if it offends, but if you enjoyed, I've got loads more.


I think you are right that this is a good investment - and we will also use vacant apartments for vacations etc - so it is not only about money.

I would only consider JBR if we are talking investing in apartments (villa is even better). I have many reasons for this. 

It is difficult to talk in general about rental rates as thei apartments are somewhat different - an example - a very little 2B apartment but located 33 floor with FULL seaview is 150 k and gone in a week - but same apartment just next to this one - same floor and size but with partial seaview is difficult to rent out above 120 k. In general - if you buy now you will get 7% back of the investment - in Europe this is perhaps 3% - which is taxed also. Regarding JBR - you have to consider that nothing is done at JBR - beach clubs etc. When done - I can only guess what rental rates will be.


----------



## googly

dubaiquote said:


> I have some property i want to sell , am i allowed to post it on here or not , just thought id ask before i did it ..


Krazy, shouldnt there be a thread for buying/selling? Or is this beyond the scope of this website?


----------



## Krazy

^^ this is beyond the scope of this website, sorry.


----------



## IISinbadII

I was looking at 2 BR town houses in the Springs. The price was 1.8+ M in April this year but it has come down to 1.6 M..... Any idea why?


----------



## googly

New rules for freehold rentals 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: August 30, 2007, 23:16


Dubai: Freehold homeowners will have to take Land Department's permission before renting out premises from next year, a senior government official said.

Dubai's huge rental market will be tightened up under regulations being considered by Dubai Land Department, Gulf News has learnt. Under the planned initiative, homeowners wanting to lease out a property will first have to apply for a permit from the Land Department.

They will then have to officially register any subsequent rental contract that they draw up with a tenant. At that point the Land Department may impose restrictions on the terms of a lease, such as the number of tenants allowed per unit and who can occupy a unit. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The service, which will affect thousands of people in Dubai who rent out property, will be free of charge. "The idea is at an early stage and is not our number one priority right now. Eventually we want to create more regulation and transparency in the rental market, which will give confidence to tenants," said Mohammad Sultan Thani, director of development and marketing administration at the Land Department.

"It will also give us a better understanding of the market, such as the total number of properties being rented out," Thani said. 

According to the Land Department, the scheme will only apply to a landlord renting out an entire unit and will not address the issue of subletting rooms within a unit occupied by the landlord. "This is a more complicated issue and will be addressed at a later stage," said Thani.

If introduced, the move will represent a shift in attention from regulating the sales market towards ensuring greater control and accountability in the rental market, which has so far been allowed to run free.

A leading official at the newly formed Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera), an organisation operating under the umbrella of the Land Department, recently told Gulf News that the organisation is finalising a model three-to-five-year tenancy agreement to help tenants tackle rising rental costs.

It will be a model tenancy agreement protecting the rights and privileges of the tenants. Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive of Rera, said one of the organisation's key tasks will be to regulate and authenticate rental agreements, as well as provide an advisory role on issues like the rent cap.

Timeline

2002 Dubai extends property market for foreign ownership

2004-07 More than 15,000 residents move to their homes

2006 The Dubai Government announces a new property registration law legalising freehold ownership by expatriates/foreigners

The government identifies freehold and leasehold areas where ownership could be granted to expatriates

The Dubai Land Department starts registering properties and offering title deeds to expatriates

2007 The government announces the Trust Account Law

The emirate sets up the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) to regulate the real estate market

Dubai brings about half of its 4,114 sq km of land into the emirate's strategic development plan


----------



## IISinbadII

^^
How will they address short-term rentals?


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> ^^
> How will they address short-term rentals?


I guess they will do it in time. If you own an Emaar property though, you cant rent short-term anyway. And with the new law coming up, long term rentals would become less attractive (from an investment point of view). 

Bottom line: lower rental returns on your investment. This could lead to investors simply not investing for a rental return (which would result in property prices falling). On top of that, if you add a 10% inflation rate for Dubai (and a 7% rental cap), you would have to think twice before renting out your apartment.


----------



## IISinbadII

googly said:


> I guess they will do it in time. If you own an Emaar property though, you cant rent short-term anyway. *And with the new law coming up, long term rentals would become less attractive (from an investment point of view). *
> 
> Bottom line: lower rental returns on your investment. This could lead to investors simply not investing for a rental return (which would result in property prices falling). On top of that, if you add a 10% inflation rate for Dubai (and a 7% rental cap), you would have to think twice before renting out your apartment.


Plus the falling dollar. :bash: 

What "new law" that would make long term rentals less attractive?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

googly said:


> If you own an Emaar property though, you cant rent short-term anyway. And with the new law coming up, long term rentals would become less attractive (from an investment point of view).


I am glad I do not own an Emaar property!


----------



## Hanna

*Escrow law*

Hi All



Sultan Butti Bin Mijrin, director general of the Dubai Land Department and Sarie Arar, head, business banking group of Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank at the signing ceremony of the Escrow Account Trustee Agreement. 



Land body to enforce use of escrow accounts 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: August 30, 2007, 23:16


Dubai: Land Department said yesterday it will address cases where property developers still receive money from property sales directly from buyers rather than through the emirate's newly introduced escrow accounts. 

Building permits will only be issued to new projects linked to an escrow account.

Under the conditions of the escrow account law, money generated from off-plan sales at projects launched since the law was issued will be paid into special accounts, rather than directly to developers, and released only when certain stages of project construction are complete.

According to a Dubai-based property developer, the government must start putting pressure on developers to conform to the new requirements. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"There are a significant number of companies who sell to end-users using their own brokers without announcing the project in the media and without going through escrow accounts," said Ahmad Al Abdullah, chairman of New Dubai Properties. 

"Overall the escrow account law is good for Dubai as it makes developers accountable, but the government must control companies that don't announce their projects and sell under the table."

The Land Department said sales for all projects in Dubai, even those launched before the law came into effect on June 28, will have to go through escrow accounts by December 28, 2007.

For developments where off-plan sales have not yet started, an escrow account will need to be opened before sales start. Developments where off-plan sales have already started could fall in three categories: 

1. Developers with project that are 70-80 per cent complete will not have to open an escrow account.

2. Projects where work has started on site and crossed the shoring stage, will need an account by December 28.

3. 'Projects that have not reached the shoring stage will need an escrow account immediately'.


----------



## pinnacle1

Hi, can anyone tell what this new law is, where payments to developers has to be placed in an escrow account. Does this apply to projects already under construction, when does it or when did it start from and is it compulsory.


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> Plus the falling dollar. :bash:
> 
> What "new law" that would make long term rentals less attractive?


I was referring to the news report "New Rules for freehold rentals" (read below), which is supposed to be in force next year. 

Under the new rules: 

1. The landlord must first get a PERMIT for renting out his/her property. 
2. The landlord must register the tenancy agreement with the Land Dept. 
3. The Land Dept. has the power to impose restrictions on any clause in the tenancy agreement. 

Most foreign landlords wont want to deal with the Land Dept. (red-tapism, delays, unfair/unheard of policies, unprofessional attitude, etc). So, many would simply not want to go through with such a hassle and will simply sell their units rather than rent them out. 

BTW, has anyone heard of such rental "rules" anywhere else in the world? It seems to me that such rules are making Dubai regress to the old days when foreign investment was not allowed.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I am sure the UK inland revenue will like to get their hands on a copy of all those rental permits and lands dept. registered tenancy agreements.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

googly said:


> Most foreign landlords wont want to deal with the Land Dept. (red-tapism, delays, unfair/unheard of policies, unprofessional attitude, etc). So, many would simply not want to go through with such a hassle and will simply sell their units rather than rent them out.


Possible price crash ahead then ?


----------



## Hanna

pinnacle1 said:


> Hi, can anyone tell what this new law is, where payments to developers has to be placed in an escrow account. Does this apply to projects already under construction, when does it or when did it start from and is it compulsory.


Hi pinnacle1

I saw this report today I hope it answers your question.

Sultan Butti Bin Mijrin, director general of the Dubai Land Department and Sarie Arar, head, business banking group of Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank at the signing ceremony of the Escrow Account Trustee Agreement. 



Land body to enforce use of escrow accounts 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: August 30, 2007, 23:16


Dubai: Land Department said yesterday it will address cases where property developers still receive money from property sales directly from buyers rather than through the emirate's newly introduced escrow accounts. 

Building permits will only be issued to new projects linked to an escrow account.

Under the conditions of the escrow account law, money generated from off-plan sales at projects launched since the law was issued will be paid into special accounts, rather than directly to developers, and released only when certain stages of project construction are complete.

According to a Dubai-based property developer, the government must start putting pressure on developers to conform to the new requirements. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"There are a significant number of companies who sell to end-users using their own brokers without announcing the project in the media and without going through escrow accounts," said Ahmad Al Abdullah, chairman of New Dubai Properties. 

"Overall the escrow account law is good for Dubai as it makes developers accountable, but the government must control companies that don't announce their projects and sell under the table."

The Land Department said sales for all projects in Dubai, even those launched before the law came into effect on June 28, will have to go through escrow accounts by December 28, 2007.

For developments where off-plan sales have not yet started, an escrow account will need to be opened before sales start. Developments where off-plan sales have already started could fall in three categories: 

1. Developers with project that are 70-80 per cent complete will not have to open an escrow account.

2. Projects where work has started on site and crossed the shoring stage, will need an account by December 28.

3. 'Projects that have not reached the shoring stage will need an escrow account immediately'.


----------



## Krazy

High Times said:


> If Dubai want visitors as well as long term residents they will understand that short term holiday lets play a major part in their future.


If only life was that simple.


----------



## plotman

Aussie1 said:


> hello all you cleaver people, I am a new investor in Dubai at the Marina Veiwtowers and was wandering if anyone can answer my question. For a woman married with only girls is there a problem at the death of a husband even with a will written up?


Try www.Globalpropertyguide.com under inheritance in the UAE section 
Aussie if your in Marina view, check the theard you might wish to join forces with some of the owners.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Very good point, I have seen many modern suburbs in other cities where there are only 1 or 2 designs and all of them are really depressing. It really destroys the city's or town's image.

However, the press release said:

Residents have the choice between a selection of home styles on different plot sizes which will result in more diverse streetscapes. 

Then later 

Initially there will be 2 designs.

Then we hear that phase 1 it is sold out so it must be the case that phase 1 will be based only on these 2 designs so will not "result in more diverse streetscapes." ?

I don't understand why it is so difficult for Nakheel to initially provide a large selection of styles for such a big project and to enforce rules that no 2 homes of the same style are allowed to be adjacent etc.


----------



## IISinbadII

Krazy said:


> ^^ I'm guessing you mean an 03 in Aurora?
> 
> No doubt this is a very nice apartment to own. I think the excellent quality accompanied by good views should move this one right now at around Dhs 1150-1200/sq ft.. and perhaps about Dhs 1350-1400/sq ft on completion. Hold on till completion... there's no point in selling right now.


Krazy, I would like to ask you a general question. 
-Do you think the MP prices will reach their peak upon complition or do you feel they could move up further in the next 2-3 years? 
-If one holds and puts out the unit on rent they can earn a good amount in 3 years (8 x 3 = appx. 24%) and sell it at a premium. 
-On the other hand if one sells at completion they loose on the rent and the premium both, or atleast on rent (assuming there would be no appriciation). 
Your thaughts would be highly apprciated. 
Thanks.


----------



## Krazy

IISinbadII said:


> -Do you think the MP prices will reach their peak upon complition or do you feel they could move up further in the next 2-3 years?


Of course MP prices will not reach their max on completion.. we shud expect a 5-10% rise in prices from their current level but prices will definitely continue to rise over the next 2-3 years as various parts of marina are established in this area: the walk, beach parks, marina promenade shops, yacth club to name a few that come to mind..



IISinbadII said:


> -If one holds and puts out the unit on rent they can earn a good amount in 3 years (8 x 3 = appx. 24%) and sell it at a premium.


Agreed. I do not suggest selling any time soon.. but Nazo sounded like he/she wants to sell soon.. so i think it's better to wait for 4 more months.



IISinbadII said:


> -On the other hand if one sells at completion they loose on the rent and the premium both, or atleast on rent (assuming there would be no appriciation).


I expect a better rental yield than 8%. From what I hear, quality 1 bedroom units are being rented out for over 100K right now in marina.. which is in the 10-12% return.


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Thanks for your comments, Krazy. Your input is always appreciated.



Krazy said:


> I expect a better rental yield than 8%. From what I hear, quality 1 bedroom units are being rented out for over 100K right now in marina.. which is in the 10-12% return.


When I say 8% yeald, I base it on expected value of the unit upon completion and not the original price paid. Also you have to deduct the maintenence and other charges.

So E.g. if the selling price of a 1 BR 893 sq. ft. is AED 1,224,000
and the Rent its fetching is say AED 100,000 
and a Maintenence Fee (@ AED 13/sq.ft) is AED 11609 
The Rental Yeald comes to 7.22 % only.


----------



## Nazo_x

Btw Krazee, Sinbad

I was offered 1.35 mil cash for my 2203 in the Beauport, thats 1420 dhs/sq. ft, i declined.

I agree with Sinbad that it would be a good idea to get some revenue from reting in for a couple of years till a few ongoing projects(walk,etc) are completed. Krazee, ur absolutely right about the rent 100-120 k easliy for these units and waiting for a few months is a better idea.


----------



## glover

Sinbad,

i think yields are calculated based on how much t*he investor paid for the property*, not the current market value.

I expect most of the marina to appreciate considerably once the Metro and Tram services are open in 2009. By then, all of the beach facilities will also be open and a good deal of landscaping has been done in the Marina.

my guess is that a good property will be in the 1600-1700 dhs/sqft range by then!


----------



## Nazo_x

glover said:


> Sinbad,
> 
> i think yields are calculated based on how much t*he investor paid for the property*, not the current market value.
> 
> I expect most of the marina to appreciate considerably once the Metro and Tram services are open in 2009. By then, all of the beach facilities will also be open and a good deal of landscaping has been done in the Marina.
> 
> my guess is that a good property will be in the 1600-1700 dhs/sqft range by then!


For a medium-long term perspective, these figures i agree on.


----------



## Aussie1

Thankyou plotman it was very interesting your article concerning my problem. I shall check out the other site you mentioned concerning MVT


----------



## googly

glover said:


> Sinbad,
> 
> i think yields are calculated based on how much t*he investor paid for the property*, not the current market value.


Not true. Yield is always calculated on the current market value. Otherwise, you will never be able to come to a single figure on yield as different people will have bought at different rates at different times.


----------



## IISinbadII

googly said:


> Not true. Yield is always calculated on the current market value. Otherwise, you will never be able to come to a single figure on yield as different people will have bought at different rates at different times.


Exactly.


----------



## IISinbadII

Nazo_x said:


> Btw Krazee, Sinbad
> 
> I was offered 1.35 mil cash for my 2203 in the Beauport, thats 1420 dhs/sq. ft, i declined.
> 
> I agree with Sinbad that it would be a good idea to get some revenue from reting in for a couple of years till a few ongoing projects(walk,etc) are completed. Krazee, ur absolutely right about the rent 100-120 k easliy for these units and waiting for a few months is a better idea.


1420 dhs/sq. ft....no way! 
You did the right thing. Stay put and squeeze out a few years of rent before even thinking to sell.



> I cant tell if ill be able to get inside again, i had to sneak in last time, i will try, maybe imre or omar should come along coz i dont have a good camera or the skills for that matter..


You better buy a camera or take Imre next time you get inside MP. Otherwise Krazy will ban you from this thread. :jk:

BTW, to satisfy us, you dont need too much skills, just put camera on auto and keep clicking.


----------



## glover

sorry guys, but the formula i know of how rental yields are calculated is as follows:

*Annual Rental Income divided by purchase price x 100*

using the market value of the property instead of the purchase price produces a notional figure with no real meaning and in fact would be misleading.

not sure where you got "Yield is always calculated on the current market value" from, because that's not how it's calculated!


----------



## glover

right, the formula above is for a simple rental yield calculation! the point here is that the yield is calculated based on the actual price paid for the property, not the market value!


----------



## rexdmx

glover, googly : both of you are correct in different ways 
glover is thinking like an accountant. googly, like an economist
accounting concepts measure the value of an asset by its purchase price. according to the realization concept, until the property has been sold, its original price is the value...yes i know it clashes with the concept of an economist (googly) that it is good enough that the asset *could * be realized for it to the recognized

there are pros and cons of the whole issue and it has been debated for decades now!!...but dubai now calculate on current values anyway although it is not entirely correct.


----------



## googly

glover said:


> sorry guys, but the formula i know of how rental yields are calculated is as follows:
> 
> *Annual Rental Income divided by purchase price x 100*


The underlying assumption in the above formula is that the purchase price is the current market value, i.e. you rent out the property right after you purchase it. 

Like I said earlier, since purchase price is different for different buyers, everyone's rental yield will then be different. Hence, we will not be able to decide what the actual rental yield is.


----------



## glover

i can see what they are saying, that* if* you want to sell the property, the rental yield for the new buyer will be such and such (as a way to measure how attractive the investment would be for potential buyers interested in renting their property).

however, there some scenarios where you can end up buying a property quite less than the market value, i.e. distress sell, a cash buyer, foreclosure, and so forth. As an individual investor, what counts in the end is how much you actually paid!


----------



## googly

Nazo_x said:


> Absolutely googly, this is a common thing, where owners form a sort of union in the goal of controlling the prices, even if not all the owners were to be involved, a group of us coming together will have a domino effect and the group members would increase till the group or unoin is large enough to define prices.


I wasnt talking of defining prices because there are so many properties available in the Marina that MP owners will not be able to define them themselves. 

What i was talking about was getting some leverage from a realtor if many of us join hands. I personally dont know of any realtor in Dubai. 

BTW, I wonder if we can form an owners thread on this forum. Or can we use this thread to discuss any and all issues? What do you say Krazy?


----------



## googly

glover said:


> however, there some scenarios where you can end up buying a property quite less than the market value, i.e. distress sell, a cash buyer, foreclosure, and so forth. As an individual investor, what counts in the end is how much you actually paid!


Lets differentiate between capital gains and rental yeild. If you bought a property in MP, then at the time of handover (hopefully Jan 08), any potential profit you made (=current value-purchase price) is your potential capital gain. If you rent out your apt, then you cannot include your potential capital gain in your yeild calculation. Similarly, if you sell your apt after a year of renting, you cannot include your rental yield in the capital gain. 

In a distress sale, the purchase price is not significantly lower than the market value. This will have minimal effect on the rental yield.


----------



## mackie1964

^^ You just missed nearly half of this world including rich countries like USA and Saudi Arabia where I saw worse condition of living but obviously not at the same scale.


----------



## lovedubai

Minor correction 132 square feet divided between 12 people equals 11 square foot each. I'd love to let Naz live like this in the heat of Dubai for a few months and see if he changed his opinions!


----------



## rexdmx

^^ alright everyone it's enough...you've all made your various points/apologies

please move this discussion to another thread and we'll focus on the properties shall we??


----------



## rexdmx

*from ameinfo*

*A short history of Dubai Property: part 6*



In the few months after the new Dubai Property Law was decreed on March 12th, AME Info recorded 14 new project announcements in Dubai. The developers ranged from the local stalwarts Emaar Properties and Damac Properties through local secondary developers, to big international names from Korea and India with three projects worth $775m. 

Topping the list was the Dubai-based Fortune Group's $1.1bn commitment to building the 108-storey Burj Al Alam in the Business Bay district, with 27 floors of serviced apartments, commercial offices and the world's highest hotel. Rising 480 metres, the Burj Al Alam is designed to resemble a dazzling crystal flower. 

The City of Arabia also launched its Wadi Residences, 1,600 apartments in five-storey buildings at the heart of its city-within-a-city, plus dinosaur park and the world's biggest shopping mall. Meanwhile Dubai-based Al Manal unveiled its $816m Crown City residential project with 8,000 apartments in 52 buildings in the Dubai Investment Park. 

Emaar Properties released the last of its popular Alvorado villas at the Arabian Ranches around its golf club, and also reported rapid sales of its first offering within The Old Town Island at the Burj Dubai Downtown, The Tajer Residences comprising 252 individually designed waterfront apartments. 

Aside from the $1.1bn Burj Al Alam, there were four other major project announcements at the upcoming commercial district Business Bay: Tulip announced its Peninsula Tower, while Al Attar Properties launched The Skyscraper, Tameer rolled out The Regal Tower, and leading Korean firm Bando Housing Corporation bought land for a $350m mixed use development. 

New Dubai also saw some major new development projects: the $323m Taj Exotica Resort and Spa and The Grandeur Residences on The Palm Jumeirah from ETA Star; the $191m Palm Island hotels from Zabeel Investments and TUI Hotels and Resorts; and the Iris Blue, a 29-storey residential tower in Dubai Marina from Sheth Group of India. 


Largest Dubai building project

Had all these diverse companies got the Dubai property market wrong? AME Info concluded, 'Perhaps if these companies were mainly international and not Dubai-based this might be a fair conclusion. 

'But the majority are local concerns, generally run by local businessmen with a good track record, and usually self-made, not the usual candidates for throwing money away. However, one thing that is quite certain is that the Dubai Property Law has revived the launch of new development projects in Dubai.' 

Then in April 2006 the Dubai Government trumped all these announcements with the $18bn The Lagoons project. *At 70 million square feet The Lagoons is the largest Dubai project of the 21st century so far.* :nuts: 

It will comprise seven landscaped islands, linked by bridges, with residential buildings, shopping centres, office buildings and marinas. 

Meanwhile, Colliers International published an Office Market Overview for the Gulf region which highlighted a doubling of Dubai office rentals since 2002, and the fact that 40 per cent of current tenants were tentatively looking to increase their office space. The conclusion was that the office market would remain tight until mid-2007. 

However, Colliers also noted that the present 14 million square feet of office space in Dubai will more than double to 28.7 million square feet by the end of 2008, and that there is a substantial amount of new build office space in the pipeline to come after that, such as the Business Bay office towers and now additional space in The Lagoons. 


Final price spike?

This correspondent had started to feel that the game was almost up for Dubai property. But in August 2006 we published a final article on the boom which predicted a final price spike in September. 

We argued: 'In terms of rental yields Dubai property offers one of the best returns available in global property at present. Dubai rents have rocketed due to a shortage of completed property, and so the return for landlords is high. 

'This factor alone ought to guarantee at least one more upward movement in prices before the inevitable correction - perhaps as new supply kicks in later on next year. In short, market forces should push house prices sharply higher to produce falling rental yields.' 

In fact this final spike forecast proved spot on, and in the autumn Standard Chartered Bank unveiled its new house price index which showed that prices had indeed spiked in September.


----------



## M7

Anybody has the price range?


----------



## Ines

*Al Furjan Prices*

Prices are not cheap...

3BR with BUA 3842 sq.ft & plot 6458 sq.ft - original price was AED 3,721,000 - now selling with 15% premiums...

I am trying to get a detailed masterplan from the developer... no luck as yet

cheers :cheers:


----------



## dubaifirst

I am selling a property in Dubai, I need a lawyer to handle the selling process for me. Can any one please recommend one in Dubai. Many Thanks


----------



## High Times

^^ 

Here is a link to lawyers in Dubai from the UK embassy.

http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/se...t/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1055784860493


----------



## thedubailife

Just want to get peoples thoughts. Is Jummeriah Village a good investment area in order to buy and Sell property within in year with a good appreation.

Does anyone have an experince in this area, do projects sell out hence high demand or is it just like 50 or 60 % sold so therefore surplus in the area.


----------



## ferrari430

A local agent pointed out Jumeirah Village (south) as the next hot spot in dubai. Her reasoning was that she is selling nakheel apartments for 675 dirhams psf where as in JLT similar apartments are selling for 1200 psf at the least.

There is probably some reasoning behind this as the price differntials should reduce once some development occurs in JV but currently its just bare land with some ridiculous completion dates on projects i.e. mid 2008 end 2008 etc. 

If I was investing here I would keep in mind that we are probably looking at 3/4 years for completion (factor in whether oversupply will be an issue by then) and a few more years for infrastructure. Also I would avoid high rise towers that inevitably takes longer and stick to low rises. The nakheels Jumeirah Point that the agent was pointing out to me looks good as they are only 4 storey buildings and have a provisional completion date of end 2009


----------



## rexdmx

let's analyze for a moment jumeirah village in terms of a few factors...

*location*: it is located along emirates and al khail road which makes it about 20mins from the emirates mall and about 40mins to the marina, jbr etc. it is a reasonable location that can access other roads quite easily. it is also reasonable close to emirates hills, ranches, discovery gardens etc

*price*: ask yourself several questions with regards to price...price is seen as the ultimate test of an investment analyst and its comparison to its value. right now JV has the potential to score pretty high which means yes its value is *potentially* high. 

however with the issue of price comes availability of income. what is the payback period. as far as i know JV has not been handed over and the completion dates in my opinion would be around 2009 no matter what anyone else says. if you have considered your financial status and know what is at stake with delays etc you would be ok...
the delays would cause loss in rental income (appreciation is not affected much) most of the best projects have been delayed anyway like palms etc
in terms of price is it very competitive but it has the disadvantage of no construction sign yet...it would happen though.

*developers:*: there are many new developers here and while it is prudent usually for people to go for the largest developers, the biggest ones started small anyway so it is wise to look at the whole picture. it is more risky if it is a newbie with no track record but it does not mean doom and gloom. find out about the contractors and check _their_ records  

so far the biggest developer in JV is nakheel and they have one and two bedroom villas...starting from Aed 1.28million onwards.

*time horizon:* actually if you check the last posts posted by krazy or sinbad around page 170-180, there was a pie chart which showed JV as the 
3rd best performing area after Burj area and JLT beating marina!
getting back to your time horizon, you are looking to sell in a year with good premiums, there is no chance of much projects getting ready anyway so there is till a supply shortage (maintaning an increase in prices) but since your time is also short, you should focus on small units like one bedrooms and studios or scarce units like the JV villas etc

PS: I am starving now so i'll grab a sandwich and get back


----------



## thedubailife

Thanks you two some good points, In terms of developers, i have heard on the garpevine a developer with 4 projects in the Marina will be Launching a project in this area soon.

One of there Marina porjects is quite perstigious but i'm not going to say who it is, but most likely i will be able to get an investment at least 10% below Launch prices which is the reason for my question.

Agree 1 beds and studio best, also means if the property does not sell to fast can keep up with payment sechdule


----------



## Pure Dubai

Just a quick one.....

JVS developers nearly always sell on gross.

The development is a loooooong way off

There is an ecclectic mix of developers - look at the way Nakheel managed JLT, could this be a worse example since it's largely small developers.

Still loads of speculation going on there.

Prices are cheap yeah but so what. Sometimes it's best to pay top dollar in a great location. A studio in Mayfair London can appreciate better than a 3 bedroom in Watford....

Having had a good look at JVS, I wouldn't say you would go wrong as such. I'm a believer in Dubai and think that the market has a good set of legs.

I am about to re enter the residentila market. My money will be on Downtown, villas in Jumeriah park, some Marina stuff, but not JVS or Sports City.

But that's just me. I'm sure all areas will do fine.

One last thing is to make sure that a developer can attract bank finance, otherwise you will find it very hard to sell...

Good luck


----------



## ferrari430

^^ Pure Dubai - how are you couple of floors office space doing in Mazaya. Are you selling them now or still holding - you must have done well to get them below 1000 dirhams psf - they should easily cut 1200 dirhams by now


----------



## rexdmx

ferrari430 said:


> ^^ Pure Dubai - how are you couple of floors office space doing in Mazaya. Are you selling them now or still holding - you must have done well to get them below 1000 dirhams psf - they should easily cut 1200 dirhams by now



are you talking about mazaya business centre in jlt...?
coz there are still on the market for that much
even cheaper for the full floors  
but the potential is amazing


----------



## thedubailife

Well i'm new to it all only in the process of flipping my 1st property  got a good return, only problem being is this conversion of pound to driham on buying and dirham to pound on selling.

Anyone a simple solution for 1st i used a currency agency not sure if can use that in reverse.


----------



## rexdmx

thedubailife said:


> Well i'm new to it all only in the process of flipping my 1st property  got a good return, only problem being is this conversion of pound to driham on buying and dirham to pound on selling.
> 
> Anyone a simple solution for 1st i used a currency agency not sure if can use that in reverse.


use the same exchange rate for pound and dirham. i am sure any differences (if they are)will be negligible
ps: which property did u flip??


----------



## thedubailife

^^ What do you mean use same exchange rate ?? When i bought i sent pounds to become AED, now i'm selling they say they will only send in AED

I flipped a little studio in Silverene, Dubai Marina

I'm a small fish in a big pond  and lots of big fish and sharks around


----------



## ferrari430

rexdmx said:


> are you talking about mazaya business centre in jlt...?
> coz there are still on the market for that much
> even cheaper for the full floors
> but the potential is amazing


Well, I have found 2 adverts for Mazaya in the better homes website

Ref OF 65164

1,758 sq. ft. for AED 2,005,348 = 1140 AED psf

and

Ref OF 65165

1,252 sq. ft. for AED 1,532,007 = 1223 AED psf

www.bhomes.com

The reality is there is hardly any office space you can buy in JLT for 1000 dishams psf.

Out of the 51 adverts for office space in JLT there is just 1 at AED 1000 psf and that in a problematic project like Dubai Star


----------



## Krazy

*Nakheel will build 200,000 units over the next decade*


Property developer Nakheel Group will create as many as 200,000 new residential units in Dubai over the next decade, and expects strong demand for property in the booming city to persist, a top company official said.

“The market could provide 200,000 to 400,000 residential units over the next 10 years and Nakheel could provide half of those,” said the firm’s executive director for investment projects, Robert Lee.

The firm is building three palm-shaped islands and an archipelago designed like the map of the world to host hotels, shopping malls and homes.

“Demand has grown far faster than supply, which has led to the acceleration of house prices and rent has gone up as well as construction costs,” Lee said. “So to calm this acceleration, we have to provide more units for people to live in.” Rents have risen sharply in Dubai, fuelling inflation. Although a large amount of new property will come onto the market in coming years, Lee said the market was far from being saturated.

“Consultants raised con cerns about saturation a couple of years ago, but they were wrong as it hasn’t happened because there is huge growth in Dubai,” he said.

Dubai’s population grew almost 26 per cent to 1.42 million at the end of last year, from 1.13 million a year earlier, equivalent to 24,333 peo ple every month, according to Dubai’s Statistics Department. Tourists are not included in the tallied figure.


----------



## Naz UK

^^ The more number of beds, the harder to short-let, thats the rule. You will see from many short-let websites that many ppl advertise their 1-bed as "sleeps 4", their 2 beds as "sleeps 6-8", and their 3-beds as "sleeps an entire football team, their wives, the cleaner, butler and the maid". Making good and economical use of space is the key here.


----------



## mackie1964

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> Steve any idea what a 3 bed costs in the Emirates Serviced apartments ?
> 
> Is it fair to say that 3 beds work better for short term rentals as families and couples sharing etc?


Check the British Holiday companies (Kuoni for example) they do sell it.

http://www.kuoni.co.uk/holiday/Nort...s_Marina_Hotel_and_Residence/Dubai_index.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> Steve any idea what a 3 bed costs in the Emirates Serviced apartments ?
> 
> Is it fair to say that 3 beds work better for short term rentals as families and couples sharing etc?


Prices for 1 week in April in AED

Studio Flat 9,016
1 bedroom 11,718
2 bedroom - marina view 15,680
2 bedroom - sea view 18,032
3 bedroom marina view 22,736
3 bedroom sea view 24,304


----------



## Morrismarina

Here's a good website for checking out holiday-let prices, they have 97 properties listed for Dubai.

http://www.holiday-rentals.co.uk/dubai/s/1945/fa/find.squery









*


----------



## Naz UK

Yes, I think this is the most prominent one out there, certainly one i've used before.


----------



## Morrismarina

Naz UK said:


> Yes, I think this is the most prominent one out there, certainly one i've used before.


I used it a few weeks ago to book our accomodation in the Marina during Easter next year. Booked a 3 bed plus maid's room so essentially a 4 bed (teenagers all want their own rooms these days). We're having 15 nights whereas had we stayed in a 5 star hotel the same money to book 4 separate rooms would only have covered 5 nights !! An apartment is much better value and I see a big market for this type of accomodation.


----------



## High Times

^^ 

I hope so Morris cause I'm banking on renting out my 3 beds in the Torch for holiday lets once complete.

I just had a look at that holiday rentals site you posted and its a bit worrying to see that occupancy rates on the 'view availability' icons on most appartments is no-where near 50%.

i guess that short term lets should pick up as projects get closer to completion.

I have to say that i dont fancy renting in the marina just yet. Last time i was there in May my car was hit by a piece of concrete falling from one of the cranes, only a small bit but still made me think a bit.


----------



## Morrismarina

High Times said:


> ^^
> I just had a look at that holiday rentals site you posted and its a bit worrying to see that occupancy rates on the 'view availability' icons on most apartments is no-where near 50%.


I wouldn't take much notice of this - I've booked two weeks over Easter & paid my deposit about 6 weeks ago and my apartment still shows they have availability for this period. In fact they show nothing at all booked for 2008. I guess most owners just can't be bothered to update the website..........or perhaps they don't update on purpose allowing the owner to pass on a referral elsewhere.


----------



## googly

Dubai rents could fall in ’08
By Issac John (Deputy Business Editor)

26 September 2007 



DUBAI — Dubai’s residential rents, which have been on a relentless rally over the past five years, will start declining next year for the first time in a decade as more than 60,000 new housing units come into the market, analysts said.


The rate of increase of rents has already begun to slow. According to EFG-Hermes, Egypt’s largest investment bank, the decline in the pace of rental rate growth observed in the first eight months of this year will sustain into early 2008.

Residential rents across Dubai increased on an average by 16 per cent in the first eight months of this year compared to 30 per cent for the whole of 2006. This trend of slowing rental rate increases, according to analysts, is mainly due to a relief from Dubai’s seven per cent rent cap.

Predicting that the rent cap for 2008 will most likely be reduced to five per cent, an analyst at EFG-Hermes said the decline in the pace of rental rate growth observed in the first eight months of this year, therefore, expected to continue into early 2008, with rents starting to decline in 2008 as new housing comes onto the market.

Revising the bank’s housing unit supply forecast for the next three to four years, the analyst, Sana Kapadia, said due to a far slower pace of project handovers, only 11,000 units or 20 per cent of the expected 57,000 units are coming onstream in 2007 — meaning that supply continues to lag behind demand.

But in 2008, the supply will surge to 64,000 units, and 68,000 in 2009. “Based on the assumption that the population of Dubai will rise to almost 1.9 million by 2010, up from 1.4 million currently, demand now calls for 45,000 to 50,000 new units per annum.”

This means, by end- 2008, supply will outpace the demand.

EFG-Hermes also predicted that a fall in residential property prices, expected to happen in 2008, will now be delayed until 2009. “Supply in the residential property market is and will continue to be constrained in 2007. We predict that the peak year for supply will now be 2009. The market is unlikely to see a price decline before this occurs,” the analyst said.

According to market analysts, rents for luxury housing will fall at a faster pace as end-user demand for mid-income housing is higher than that for luxury housing, which has dominated delivered supply to date.

On the other hand, in the commercial property segment, rents and prices will continue to rise due to capacity limitations. “As Dubai continues to attract businesses from across the globe, we have seen continued pressure in terms of both rents and selling prices of commercial property over the past eight months. “Vacancy rates of around one per cent, in addition to pent-up demand from existing businesses and new tenants wishing to upgrade office premises has allowed rents to rise 40 per cent year to date on average. Prices for freehold office space have risen 17 per cent year to date.

“This trend of a sustained increase both in terms of rents and selling prices stems from a prolonged lag in the completion of new commercial supply.”The analyst said with most of the commercial space additions expected to hit the market in 2008 and 2009, she expects to see a marked decline in rents. “As a result, we expect to see Dubai commercial property yields sliding back gradually toward the international average.”


----------



## Krazy

^^ are they assuming that all the new 60,000 units will be up for renting?


----------



## Naz UK

This is the same kind of crap we were hearing this time last year. So everyone expected a reduction in rents for 2007. But in actual fact rentals went up between 7 and 15% since last year.


----------



## Krazy

*Real estate prices will head south, but not yet*



If you are planning to buy property in Dubai, hold on. The prices may start falling in 2009, only after a rise of up to 15 per cent this year and next, according to a research report entitled Hot Markets Begin to Cool by investment bank EFGHermes.

The reason is simple: there is a reduction in the supply of new homes due to construction delays, Egypt’s largest investment bank said in its report.

The report highlights that of the 57,000 residential units due for delivery this year, less than 20 per cent have come to the market.

And this could result into property prices rising between 10 and 15 per cent this year, and between five and 10 per cent next year.

According to EFG-Hermes’s estimates, the prices are likely to start declining in 2009. “Supply in the residential property market is and will continue to be constrained in 2007.We predict the peak year for supply will now be 2009 – meaning the market is unlikely to see a price decline before this occurs,” said Sana Kapadia, research analyst at EFG-Hermes.

“Due to the slower pace of completed project handovers being witnessed this year, supply continues to lag far behind demand,” the investment bank added in its report.

It further said as many as 25,000 units is expected to come to the market by the end of this year, 64,000 by the end of next year and 68,000 in 2009.

THE CYCLE IS MATURING Meanwhile, over the past nine months, the residential property market cycle has continued to mature, with the four strongest signs of change being: slower price appreciation; improvement in the legal framework; an increasing level of activity in the secondary market; and a reduction in the number of new project launches.

EFG-Hermes’ in-house index created to track properties in key areas across Dubai indicates that, overall, prices have increased by 13.9 per cent in the eight months to August 2007.

The bank said the relative muted level of price appreciation is one of the strongest factors supporting its view that the cycle is maturing. It added the legal improvements that have occurred this year, include the passing of a broker’s law, the passing of an escrow law, and the creation of the Real Estate Regulation Authority (Rera), which is a public sector agency established to unify and regulate all property market-related activities. SLOWER DELIVERY Revising its supply estimates, EFG-Hermes spotted another change this year – the slower pace of completed project handovers. It is a development that is delaying the surge in residential units supplied, the bank said.

“Of our initial expectations of supply of 57,000 units [assuming project delays] to be handed over in 2007, we estimate that approximately 11,000 units have been handed over so far. By the yearend, we expect no more than 25,000 units to have been delivered over the full year,” it said.

“This slower pace of deliveries has prompted us to revise expectations of the number of units that will come on stream over the next three to four years. We now believe supply will be staggered, such that in any given year, 50-60 per cent on average of announced units will actually be handed over,” the bank added. EFG-Hermes anticipates the delivery of supply delayed in one year will cascade onto the two subsequent years, thus estimating 64,000 units to come on stream by 2008. “This figure comprises two-thirds of the supply we had originally esti mated to be delivered in 2008, with the remainder representing the estimated spillover from 2007. We now expect the peak year of supply to be 2009, with 68,000 units being delivered,” stated the authors of the report. INTERNATIONAL INTEREST Demand for housing continues to rise as the population grows, mostly due to immigration, says EFG-Hermes.

The bank said it maintains its assumption that the population of Dubai will rise to almost 1.9 million by 2010 from 1.4 million currently, implying a CAGR (compounded annual growth rate) of 7.9 per cent.

Using this as a base, the bank segmented the market into local, expatriate and foreign demand and made, and arrived at an average demand of 45,250 units per annum.

“We assume demand to be price elastic, such that demand will increase once prices fall from current levels due to increased supply,” said the authors of the report. FREEHOLD OUTLOOK The Egypt-based investment bank now expects the year of price correction to be 2009 rather than 2008. “While we believe there will be excess supply in 2008, we see this being absorbed by the pentup demand of earlier years (2005-2007),” it said in the report.

“We expect prices to start declining in 2009, with a cumulative decline of 15-20 per cent by 2011. However, correction will vary depending on whether the project lies in the low, mid or high segment,” said the authors.

On average, Dubai residen tial rents across Dubai increased by 16 per cent in the first eight months of 2007 versus 30 per cent for the whole of 2006.

The bank believes this trend of slowing rental rate increases stems from delays in expected supply coming on stream; relief from the seven per cent rent cap for 2007, which has capped expectations; and end-user demand for mid-income housing being higher than that for luxury housing, which has dominated delivered supply to date.

The bank also said it expects the rent cap for 2008 to most likely be reduced to five per cent. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS As Dubai continues to attract businesses from across the world, there is continued pressure in terms of both rents and selling prices of commercial property over the last eight months, says EFG-Hermes.

Vacancy rates of about one per cent, plus pent-up demand from existing businesses and new tenants wishing to upgrade office premises have allowed rents to rise 40 per cent year on average.

Prices for freehold office space have risen 17 per cent year to date. “This trend of a sustained increase both in terms of rents and selling prices stems from a prolonged lag in the completion of new commercial supply. Most of the commercial space additions are expected to hit the market in 2008 and 2009 and we expect to see a marked decline in rents,” said the authors. “Therefore, we expect to see Dubai commercial property yields sliding back toward the international average,” they added.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ So in summary, 25% up in total by 2009, then 15-20% of the new inflated 2009 price down by 2011, resulting in an overal increase of between 0 to 7%. In other words prices holding steady of completed properties on average until 2011, then it is anyones guess.


----------



## rexdmx

*Opinion divided over trend in property prices *
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: September 26, 2007, 23:33


Dubai: Opinion is divided on the timing of Dubai's feared property market slowdown. Some analyst say the sector will cool in 2009 while others forecast at least seven more years of growth.

A report from investment bank EFG-Hermes says residential property prices will peak in the second half of 2008, before housing supply overtakes demand - the possible trigger for a 15-20 per cent dip in prices by 2011. 

If the expectation proves correct, it will bring to a halt the market's unrelenting price appreciation since 2002 when Dubai said it would allow foreigners to own freehold property. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


But the bank's views are far from unanimous among local property analysts. Some say prices will continue to rise for another seven years due to limited supply of new units, lengthy construction delays and demand for real estate among foreign investors buoyed by Dubai's improved property market regulation and the falling value of the dirham.

EFG-Hermes bases its forecast on an anticipated 25,000 new housing units hitting the market in 2007, 64,000 more homes in 2008 and a further 68,000 units in 2009. On the demand side, it predicts a need for 45,000 to 50,000 units per year.

"Supply in the residential property market is and will continue to be constrained in 2007. We predict that the peak year for supply will now be 2009, meaning that the market is unlikely to see a price decline before this occurs," said Sana Kapadia, analyst at EFG-Hermes. 

Kapadia said the company expects average prices to rise 10-15 per cent in 2007 and 5-10 per cent in 2008, before entering negative territory. 

"Following a peak in the second half of 2008 as more supply hits the market, prices will start to decline again in 2009, with a cumulative decline of 15-20 per cent by 2011," she said. 

This trend could trigger renewed demand, assuming that demand is price elastic, she added. 

While analysts agree that housing demand will remain strong, they are divided on the key factor of future housing stock.

"I really can't see where the supply is going to come from that will reduce prices in the next five years. There just aren't enough master developments that will be ready," said Iseeb Rehman, managing director of Dubai-based property consultant Sherwoods. 

He said units will come on stream at developments including Discovery Gardens, Dubai Marina and Jumeirah Lake Towers, but not in sufficient amounts to satisfy demand.

"Regional liquidity is strong and there is high immigration, while a weak dollar is attracting investment into a more regulated market," he said. "I can't see any real change in growth for the next seven years."

Offering a similar opinion, MEED's Dubai Real Estate Report 2007 says supply of residential properties will total approximately 175,000 new units by 2010. 

But an estimated 181,000 units will be required by the end of the decade - an under-supply of 6,000 - suggesting that price appreciation will continue into the next decade.


----------



## High Times

*Journalists, dont you just love them !!*

^^ 

As an Investment Adviser I have to be trained, authorised, tested regularly, regulated, insured against professional indemnity, regularly assessed, re trained, and monitored by the government. Then every word of advice I give to an investor is held on file to be scrutinised and used against me for every recommendation that I ever make to anyone.

As a journalist you can print any crap you like which is read and used as research by investors, and the only research you have to do is have a chat to other journalists down the pub on a Friday lunchtime to find out what they are writing that week.

The people writing these sort of reports are probably the same people who said that the UK housing market would crash 5 years ago.

If your investing in any asset to make a quick buck, the stakes are high.

If your investing in direct property for the medium to long term in a fast developing luxury city of the future, you have no worries.

_"House prices can fall as well as rise"
"This is not a recommendation to invest"
"Currency rates are subject to fluctuation"
"Inflation could effect the value of your investment"
"Tax laws can change without notice and be retrospective"
"Estate agents can lie, cheat, steal, and sell their mothers for a quick buck"_


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Yes but you can not deny supply and demand affecting prices. The thing is nobody really knows what the supply will be at a certain time. For example opinions are divided on this forum if the Torch will be ready in 2009 or 2011 
Also the growing population and demand is not a know factor only a guess.


----------



## ferrari430

^^ Although I am not sure that the reaction time in an oversupply scenario will be fast ie it might take a few years of consistent oversupply for prices to fall. This is more relevant in Dubai because lot of the property has been bought by cash and a big chunk for owner occupiers and second home owners. 
So owners/investors are likely to sit on their property rather than accept lower prices because most of them will be in a position to do so. Yes there will be a certain number that will have to sell and will have financed to the hilt - they are the ones that could panic sell - but will their numbers be enough to negatively affect the market?
Also to back the above argument I read in an article in AMEinfo that the dubai market was weak or going through an adjustment in the late 90s early 2000 when most owners did not sell or kept their property empty (without letting) but did not accept lower sales or rental values and thus the market recovered quickly


----------



## Morrismarina

ferrari430 said:


> ^^ Although I am not sure that the reaction time in an oversupply scenario will be fast ie it might take a few years of consistent oversupply for prices to fall. This is more relevant in Dubai because lot of the property has been bought by cash and a big chunk for owner occupiers and second home owners.
> So owners/investors are likely to sit on their property rather than accept lower prices because most of them will be in a position to do so. Yes there will be a certain number that will have to sell and will have financed to the hilt - they are the ones that could panic sell - but will their numbers be enough to negatively affect the market?
> Also to back the above argument I read in an article in AMEinfo that the dubai market was weak or going through an adjustment in the late 90s early 2000 when most owners did not sell or kept their property empty (without letting) but did not accept lower sales or rental values and thus the market recovered quickly


I'm mortgaged up the the hilt with my two Marina properties which I plan to rent out - but definitely would not sell if there was a price crash. There'd be no reason to sell at all. I'm not bothered whatsoever about the price........However.....the worry for me would be not getting a tenant then I'm fxxxed, as long as I'm getting my rent to cover the finance I'm happy.

Worst case scenario is no tenant and forced to sell when there's a price crash. mg: But somehow I don't think this will happen.


----------



## Morrismarina

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> As an Investment Adviser I have to be trained, authorised, tested regularly, regulated, insured against professional indemnity, regularly assessed, re trained, and monitored by the government. Then every word of advice I give to an investor is held on file to be scrutinised and used against me for every recommendation that I ever make to anyone.
> 
> As a journalist you can print any crap you like which is read and used as research by investors, and the only research you have to do is have a chat to other journalists down the pub on a Friday lunchtime to find out what they are writing that week.
> 
> The people writing these sort of reports are probably the same people who said that the UK housing market would crash 5 years ago.
> 
> If your investing in any asset to make a quick buck, the stakes are high.
> 
> If your investing in direct property for the medium to long term in a fast developing luxury city of the future, you have no worries.
> 
> _"House prices can fall as well as rise"
> "This is not a recommendation to invest"
> "Currency rates are subject to fluctuation"
> "Inflation could effect the value of your investment"
> "Tax laws can change without notice and be retrospective"
> "Estate agents can lie, cheat, steal, and sell their mothers for a quick buck"_


And don't forget you have to disclose your commission on each investment you sell - journalists don't have to disclose their income !!


----------



## googly

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> If your investing in any asset to make a quick buck, the stakes are high.
> 
> If your investing in direct property for the medium to long term in a fast developing luxury city of the future, you have no worries.


Investors take their time to invest in a new country, but take no time to de-invest when the going gets rough. Since most of the investors in Dubai are foreigners who want a good return on their investment, any negative trend in property prices will result in them fleeing the country.


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## Dubai_Steve

Yes but I would not worry, even the most negative article above confirms that prices in 2011 will be higher than today!


----------



## DJRage

*Is this too much*

Hi 

To all astute and knowledgeable esperts on this matter I need som advice on the following.

I am looking at investing in a 2bed property in the Marina, one developer has quoted me a price of 1.86M AED for an apartment in a development nehind the the Al Fattan towers (middle of Marina) on the 43rd floor looking out to Sea ( though I doubt how much I would see given the other developments around that area). The sqft. is 1233sqft so it works out at circa. 1500AED/sqft.

Am I being taken to the cleaners on this or is this a realistic price for the market? If not then what (rough) price should I be looking at?

Its so hard to gauage as there are so many developments and so many different quality of developments so any decision is a difficult one to make.

Appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Depends what your goals are for investment. AED 1500 sq/ft is expensive but I imagine this may be for Bay Central which is considered a high quality development. As comparison I bought in the Torch at AED 980 per sq/ft 2 years ago and I beleive prices are not too much higher than that today, so that may be a better investment. You need to consider when delivery will be.


----------



## IISinbadII

DJRage said:


> Hi
> 
> To all astute and knowledgeable esperts on this matter I need som advice on the following.
> 
> I am looking at investing in a 2bed property in the Marina, one developer has quoted me a price of 1.86M AED for an apartment in a development nehind the the Al Fattan towers (middle of Marina) on the 43rd floor looking out to Sea ( though I doubt how much I would see given the other developments around that area). The sqft. is 1233sqft so it works out at circa. 1500AED/sqft.
> 
> Am I being taken to the cleaners on this or is this a realistic price for the market? If not then what (rough) price should I be looking at?
> 
> Its so hard to gauage as there are so many developments and so many different quality of developments so any decision is a difficult one to make.
> 
> Appreciate your thoughts.


My advise. Visit the office of *Emaar Properties* (at Emaar Business Park) and see what they have to offer in Marina. Check their prices and quality before looking elsewhere.


----------



## ferrari430

*marina diamonds - a success story*

I know the quality of the diamonds havent been upto par - but I for one am banging my head against the wall for not having invested in diamond 3 and 4 just 2/2.5 years ago. I almost put in my deposit and then had cold feet.
Anyway, the point is that the diamonds have been very successful for investors for example they are amongst the rare devlopments in the marina that offered small studios. These completed studios 360/370 sqft in size are selling for over AED 600,000 - so 2/2.5 times the price paid for 2 years ago. Also they come fully furnished. If you are renting them you would achieve 75/80 K.
The whole idea of these being a good buy for the investor was that they were completed in time (almost) - maybe because the towers were more managable ie upto 20 floors high. In contrast why invest in a 80-100 storey tower like the torch or ocean heights. I mean it may take 2010/2011 to deliver the torch (and ocean heights - who knows when) just because 3-4 times more work will need to go into these towers compared to the diamonds. 
They have just handed over diamond 4. So in hindsight I think the diamonds were one of the best off plan investments in the marina. Agree?


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ No doubt diamonds have been good for investors but they are not prime developments and dont have full marina view due to their location. From what I gather from DJRage post, he is looking for 2 BR and willing to pay for views. In marina I believe its all about the view, may it be marina view or sea view. Emaar is the one who developed the marina project and is among the top 3 developers in Dubai. Emaar is the one building Burj Dubai as well. Plus it is government owned. They mostly delever on time and their projects are of high quality. It has some of the best locations in marina. Emaar developments have a class of their own.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ agreed but as we said before it depends what you want the property for. If you intend to use it for a holiday home also, stay well clear of anything by Emaar.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ agreed but as we said before it depends what you want the property for. If you intend to use it for a holiday home also, stay well clear of anything by Emaar.


Agreed.

But if you are looking for quality, reliability, delevery on time, service, location, view, prestige, easy sellability, long term capital appreciation........go with Emaar.


----------



## glover

Emaar is a publicly traded company listed on Dubai stock market. The government, i believe, owns less than 25% of all shares outstanding. This makes the government a major investor in, not an owner of, Emaar.


----------



## Morrismarina

What if you're looking more for long-term rental income rather than capital appreciation - perhaps a non-Marina view property would be a better option and produce a better yield ?


----------



## iamici

*Business Bay*

bombl


----------



## worried1

*Thoughts on Yield*

I am thinking of buying something for immediate good yield. Cap appreciation is secondary, but very welcome.

The property should be easily managed from overseas i.e outside of Dubai.

Should the property be Commercial or residential?

Any thoughts on this and some trustworthy realtors; someone who will take care of all the paper work with very minimum invovement from my end etc etc:cheers:


----------



## DUBAI

I have no idea.

But from looking to rent an apartment in June, and looking again in september, the prices were slightly less. for both higher end, and cheaper areas.


----------



## sameerl

worried1:

For a relatively easy managed property, the following criteria need to be present:
1) Multi year lease, thereby preventing the hassle of negotiating with the tenant every year.
2) A corporate tenant, preferably a MNC, but large domestic businesses will also do.

Now, in Dubai, the chances of the above criteria being met are more likely in the commercial sector (based on personal experience as well as on anecdotal evidence from other investors). I would therefore recommend an investment in offices in JLT (as these are the only ones that are ready). When making the purchase, I would go through established agents such as Asteco, Better Homes, Rocky, and Real Estate Specialists (there are others as well, but they are less well known, and given the fact that you are overseas, it could add to the discomfort factor, which you dont need), all of which have experience in signing multi year lease contracts, as well as having a large pool of international company tenants that are willing to sign multiple year leases.

Hope that helps


----------



## V Kapoor

ferrari430 said:


> I know the quality of the diamonds havent been upto par - but I for one am banging my head against the wall for not having invested in diamond 3 and 4 just 2/2.5 years ago. I almost put in my deposit and then had cold feet.
> Anyway, the point is that the diamonds have been very successful for investors for example they are amongst the rare devlopments in the marina that offered small studios. These completed studios 360/370 sqft in size are selling for over AED 600,000 - so 2/2.5 times the price paid for 2 years ago. Also they come fully furnished. If you are renting them you would achieve 75/80 K.
> The whole idea of these being a good buy for the investor was that they were completed in time (almost) - maybe because the towers were more managable ie upto 20 floors high. In contrast why invest in a 80-100 storey tower like the torch or ocean heights. I mean it may take 2010/2011 to deliver the torch (and ocean heights - who knows when) just because 3-4 times more work will need to go into these towers compared to the diamonds.
> They have just handed over diamond 4. So in hindsight I think the diamonds were one of the best off plan investments in the marina. Agree?



I fully agree with you Ferrari!!

I bought a Studio early in Diamond II way back in 2004, and am reaping the benefits since December last year. The rental returns are close to 25% per year on my original investment. And the price like you said has more than doubled.

Great Investment all in all!! The location too is very convenient with the Metro Station coming up close by!!


----------



## worried1

*Sameer1 Thanks*



sameerl said:


> worried1:
> 
> For a relatively easy managed property, the following criteria need to be present:
> 1) Multi year lease, thereby preventing the hassle of negotiating with the tenant every year.
> 2) A corporate tenant, preferably a MNC, but large domestic businesses will also do.
> 
> Now, in Dubai, the chances of the above criteria being met are more likely in the commercial sector (based on personal experience as well as on anecdotal evidence from other investors). I would therefore recommend an investment in offices in JLT (as these are the only ones that are ready). When making the purchase, I would go through established agents such as Asteco, Better Homes, Rocky, and Real Estate Specialists (there are others as well, but they are less well known, and given the fact that you are overseas, it could add to the discomfort factor, which you dont need), all of which have experience in signing multi year lease contracts, as well as having a large pool of international company tenants that are willing to sign multiple year leases.
> 
> Hope that helps


Sameer1 Thanks.

Any idea-what kind of yields one may expect, prices of properties:cheers:


----------



## ferrari430

^^ Currently only Saba1 is complete in JLT with offices available to rent or buy. Rent being achieved is around AED 220-250 psf and selling prices for these completed office are AED 1600 - 1800 psf.

Personal opinion is that a better bet would be to buy an office in a tower in JLT that is coming up for completion in the next 6-8 months, the benefit being that prices are cheaper psf compared to Saba and once complete will sell for the same price and hence will give you some instant capital appreciation.
Some examples are 

1)HDS tower, One Lake plaza, Palladium, Fortune tower (These should be operational by mid 2008) current prices 1300/1400 psf

2)Goldcrest Executive, Liwa Heights, Armada tower (Should be ready by end 2008) 1200/1300 psf

3)Jumeirah Bay, Swiss tower, Tiffany tower, JBC1,JBC2, mazaya business avenue etc (ready by mid - end 2009) 1100/1200 psf

I have personally bought in Goldcrest Executive 3/4 months ago and I would personally go for categories 1 and 2 as they should be completing sometime next year


----------



## sameerl

I agree with you; to the extent that if you wish to sign multi yearleases, then category 1 is most desirable. But otherwise, you make compelling points


----------



## worried1

*How is the rental market*



ferrari430 said:


> ^^ Currently only Saba1 is complete in JLT with offices available to rent or buy. Rent being achieved is around AED 220-250 psf and selling prices for these completed office are AED 1600 - 1800 psf.
> 
> Personal opinion is that a better bet would be to buy an office in a tower in JLT that is coming up for completion in the next 6-8 months, the benefit being that prices are cheaper psf compared to Saba and once complete will sell for the same price and hence will give you some instant capital appreciation.
> Some examples are
> 
> 1)HDS tower, One Lake plaza, Palladium, Fortune tower (These should be operational by mid 2008) current prices 1300/1400 psf
> 
> 2)Goldcrest Executive, Liwa Heights, Armada tower (Should be ready by end 2008) 1200/1300 psf
> 
> 3)Jumeirah Bay, Swiss tower, Tiffany tower, JBC1,JBC2, mazaya business avenue etc (ready by mid - end 2009) 1100/1200 psf
> 
> I have personally bought in Goldcrest Executive 3/4 months ago and I would personally go for categories 1 and 2 as they should be completing sometime next year


Ferari,

Thanks; but how is the rental market? Is it easy to find a good tenant.?

any well know rental agencies that could help in the paper work? What size of commercial space is the easiest to rent out.

Thanks:cheers:


----------



## ferrari430

^^ The commercial rental market is currently probably even better than the residential. There have been articles recently claiming that Dubai has less than 1% commercial space unlet which is quite astounding!

Certainly in terms of yield its better than residential with around about 15-20% yield based on current selling prices.

I had spoken to agents like Better homes, sherwoods, gowealthy about commercial lets and they all inform me that there is a waiting list for tenants. It is probably worth speaking to better homes that have a dedicated dept for commercial sales and lets

Dont know much about the type or quality of tenants.

In terms of size in JLT they start from around 700 sqft upwards to whole floors around 10,000 sqft. The most popular sizes i.e. the sizes that are mostly up for sale are between 1000-2000 sqft (maybe for SME busineses)


----------



## bizzybonita

Secondary real estate market is booming in Dubai









Tessa Morris, Marketing Director, DSL Exhibitions




Dubai’s biggest local property show, The Resale & Rental Property Show (R&R Show), has concluded with an important revelation for the real estate industry that the era of the private landlord, most of them expats, is finally here. Of the over 2500 visitors who came to the show, 41% already owned property in Dubai. The statistics also revealed that 35% of visitors were looking to buy a property and 64% were looking to buy and rent out, which is a very positive results for Dubai’s property industry. The proportion of visitors who live in their own properties also rose considerably this year at 36%. 

Tessa Morris, Marketing Director, DSL Exhibitions, said, “When we launched the show in 2005, most of the visitors were people looking for property to buy or rent. This year, the profile of the visitors is altered in an important aspect; almost half of them already own properties. Although private landlords, actively looking to rent out or sell their properties remained at 11%, it still represents a steady rise over previous shows”. 

The R&R show has emerged as an important event in the exhibition calendar as it caters to the booming local market and has regularly revealed the dynamic nature of the Dubai real estate market with relevant and insightful consumer information revealed through exhaustive surveys that real estate professionals have come to rely upon. R&R Show is slated for 8th and 9th February 2008 at the Hotel Kempinski, Ajman showcasing real estate opportunities in Ajman, Ras Al Khaimah, Um Al Quwain, Sharjah and Fujairah. 



R


----------



## Joannides

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me – or point me to the right thread? 

We’ve applied for a license to operate within the financial and investment free trade zone and are waiting to hear back regarding the application. On the basis that this progresses, we’ll be able to apply for office space. Can anyone give me an indication of the average rental cost we should expect to pay for office space there, so I can start planning ahead?

Also, on the same note, if someone could give me an indication of the cost of renting a one bedroomed apartment, I’d be most grateful!

Thanks,

Joannides


----------



## worried1

thanks ferari, i will try better homes


----------



## rexdmx

worried1 said:


> Ferari,
> 
> Thanks; but how is the rental market? Is it easy to find a good tenant.?
> 
> any well know rental agencies that could help in the paper work? What size of commercial space is the easiest to rent out.
> 
> Thanks:cheers:


i would prescribe one lake plaza and gold crest executive as they are closer to the metro. this would be a factor in increasing the premiums...
indigo tower is also nice


----------



## mission

dOES ANYONE KNOW ANY GOOD SNAGGING COMPANIES


----------



## DubaiMarina

*Apartment price falls expected in Dubai*

*Apartment price falls expected in Dubai*

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/country.php?id=203&cat=2


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I wonder why they say in this report that there may be a 25% drop in property prices in the next 2 years, 



> EFG-Hermes propose two alternative scenarios:
> 
> 1. Substantial delays and cancellations, leading to price falls of around 25%-30% within 2 years
> 2. No delays, so that the bulk of deliveries actually arrive in 2008.
> 
> “This scenario sees prices falling by significantly more than the 25-30% in Scenario One,” notes EFG-Hermes in a December 2006 report.


yet didnt they say last week that prices would increase by 25% in the next 2 years ?



> The report highlights that of the 57,000 residential units due for delivery this year, less than 20 per cent have come to the market.
> 
> And this could result into property prices rising between 10 and 15 per cent this year, and between five and 10 per cent next year


Interesting that it says, Only if Dubai’s population continues to grow at its present rapid rate of approximately 5%, analysts believe, might there be enough demand to meet supply.

Also they state that rents are still rising. I always beleived that in the case of rising rents that yields are also rising and this points that we are in a growth cycle.

Also they forget that DAMAC is probably not planning to release any units until 2012 or so and other properties such as MAG 218 and the Torch are delayed until mid 2010 / 2011.


----------



## DubaiMarina

Dubai Market is very hard to estimate.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

They only way to accurately predict the market is to take the average of every person's beliefs, both investors and no investors. I saw a documentary about that which seemed to prove it. It also said that no single expert can usually be correct as they can never take all factors into account, whereas the average opinion does - based of chaos theory.


----------



## DUBAI

mission said:


> dOES ANYONE KNOW ANY GOOD SNAGGING COMPANIES


*S*******


----------



## Countrywide

Pre-approved financing up to 85% from the developers.


----------



## rexdmx

*Construction delays spark mad rush for office space in Dubai *
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: October 03, 2007, 23:52


Dubai: Companies on the hunt for office space in Dubai are resorting to temporary accommodation, low-grade offices or space in villas and hotels as the emirate struggles to cope with demand for new commercial property.

Market analysts say the commercial vacancy rate in Dubai is just one per cent in both traditional and newer areas of the emirate. 

They blame construction delays, which have led to only 20 per cent of expected supply being delivered over the last two years, coupled with Dubai's popularity as a financial and business hub.

The results are a 40 per cent increase in office rents this year - making Dubai one of the world's most expensive business cities - as well as frustration for companies establishing or expanding their local headquarters. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Companies are operating out of any space they can find, even hotels," said Behrouz Javaheri, chairman of Saba Properties JLT, which is launching a new office tower in Jumeirah Lakes Towers (JLT) - its fourth project in the Dubai master development.

Negative impact

"This is having a negative impact on the growth of the economy. If you have a hard time finding space, it will delay the progress of your business."

A report on Dubai's real estate sector by regional investment bank EFG-Hermes said finding office space in the emirate remains 'arduous'.

It stated that companies are settling for less desirable locations, renting temporary space in villas, setting up branches or smaller offices or buying rather than leasing office space.

According to the bank's estimates, office and commercial rents in Old Dubai (Garhoud, Bur Dubai and parts of Shaikh Zayed Road) have risen 36 per cent on an average during the year to date (YTD). 

In new Dubai (Shaikh Zayed Road, DIFC, Business Bay, JLT, Internet and Media City), rents have risen by almost 45 per cent YTD. More luxurious grade A properties in both areas has jumped by around 35 per cent on average, the report said.

"Dubai is fast becoming one of the most expensive business cities globally, with an average rent of $89 per square foot. This compares to $97 in Hong Kong, $112 in Paris and $120 in Moscow," it stated.

Meanwhile, selling prices at off-plan developments in the DIFC, Burj Dubai and offices in JLT have risen approximately 17 per cent over the past eight months, due partly to expectations of strong yields based on current off-plan prices and expected future rents, EFG-Hermes said.

It stated: "While prices for freehold commercial space have risen, selling prices remain at the bottom end among business cities, coming in at an average of about $400 per square foot, resulting in rental yields of around 20 per cent, compared to a global average of six-seven per cent."

EFG-Hermes says rents will continue to rise in the short-term, due mainly to construction delays holding up most of the 7.3 million square feet expected to hit the market this year.

Both EFG-Hermes and property services company Asteco painted a more encouraging long-term picture. Asteco expects supply to surge in 2008 and 2009 and anticipates supply of more than 50 million square feet of office space by the end of the decade.

The report added: "Most of the commercial space additions are expected to hit the market in 2008 and 2009 and we expect to see a marked decline in rents. As a result, we expect to see Dubai commercial property yields sliding back gradually toward the international average."

Spiralling out of control

Office and commercial rents in Old Dubai (Garhoud, Bur Dubai and parts of Shaikh Zayed Road) have risen 36 per cent on an average during the year to date (YTD).

In new Dubai (Shaikh Zayed Road, DIFC, Business Bay, JLT, Internet and Media City), rents have risen by almost 45 per cent YTD.


----------



## ameelioo

The rate is around 1000 AED per sq Ft !!!


----------



## laguna33p

any update on this one? btw, i have seen apartments advertised in this tower for less than £50k, what is the reason for this? and does this make it the cheapest place to buy in dubai marina?


----------



## yasir_hilali

laguna33p said:


> any update on this one? btw, i have seen apartments advertised in this tower for less than £50k, what is the reason for this? and does this make it the cheapest place to buy in dubai marina?


where and by who was this advertised, that means the price is around 260k DHS :hm:


----------



## thedubailife

No it would be around the 375K AED 

1 pound is around 7.5 AED at todays rate


----------



## rexdmx

*Timeshare still untapped in Dubai *
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: October 06, 2007, 00:42


Dubai: For several years analysts have been anticipating a boom in Dubai's timeshare market. The emirate's central geographical location coupled with its beachfront accommodation, fine dining and shopping malls are considered the ideal ingredients for people to invest in holiday destinations.

But so far the timeshare industry has not developed to the extent that many had anticipated. 

The UAE penetration rate for resort timeshare ownership among all income-eligible households is estimated at around two per cent, despite expectations that it will overtake Orlando as the world's largest timeshare market - evidence that the local market remains untapped.

The continued absence of a regulatory framework governing the industry remains the biggest obstacle for investors in local timeshare resorts. 

"The market here is relatively non-existent, the main reason being that there are no regulations in place," said Craig Johnson, general manager at real estate consultancy Landmark Properties. 

Potential

"But it could become the next big phase of the Dubai property market and will open the doors to a whole new class of buyers who want to holiday in Dubai and want a piece of the property market, but don't want to stay here all year. The introduction of regulations will enable this to come to life."

Timeshare vacation ownership and variations such as vacation clubs and fractional ownership, already enjoy huge growth annually, driven by people's desire for affordable holidays.

On a global scale, the industry boasts over Dh20 billion in turnover, Michael Tolan, CEO of Platinum Resorts International, based in Beirut, said in a statement. Industry experts estimate potential timeshare sales in the Middle East at Dh2 billion annually and growing. 

For several years, deluxe apartment operators, property developers, hotel owners and serviced apartment operators have been eagerly awaiting a Dubai timeshare law, expected to focus on consumer protection. 

It could provide details of a cooling off period, during which the buyer can withdraw from a sales contract, as well as the process involved in cancelling a contract.

Chris Jackson, managing director of Emerald Vacation Club, which is bringing 48 timeshare units onto the market in Al Barsha, agreed that the industry in Dubai is currently in its infancy. 

He linked this to low excess supply of properties, the fact that entertainment attractions in projects such as Dubailand are still under construction and the industry's tendency to hold off until laws are passed. 

"Many credible companies don't want to get involved until they know the ground rules," he said.

But he stressed that several global players in the timeshare business, such as The Marriott Vacation Club, already operate in Dubai, confident that their self-imposed regulations will comply with the upcoming law. 

Many others are currently building timeshare resorts, which could enable the industry in Dubai to fulfil its expectations. 

What is timeshare?

Timeshare is defined as buying the right to spend a set period in a holiday property. It may also give buyers the right to exchange for properties in other resorts.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai Islamic Bank wins Best Investment Management Bank Award 









Ayman Adel Kamal, Executive Vice President, 
and Habib Bitar, Head, Real Estate and Investment Division, 
Dubai Islamic Bank

Dubai Islamic Bank (DIB), the first Islamic bank to have incorporated the principles of Islam in all its practices in Dubai, has been awarded UAE’s ‘Best Real Estate Investment Management Bank’ by Liquid Real Estate magazine, a part of Euromoney, the leading magazine for the global capital markets. The award was received by Ayman Adel Kamal, Executive Vice President, DIB and Habib Bitar, Head, Real Estate and Investment Division, DIB, during a ceremony organized by Euromoney in London. 

Ayman Adel Kamal, said, “We are honored that this coveted award comes in recognition of DIB’s strategic vision, execution capabilities and management expertise. The UAE property boom that commenced earlier this decade opened up a new era of opportunities for the financial industry, capitalizing on which Dubai Islamic Bank has positioned itself to offer number of packaged services to this sector.” he concluded. 

The Real Estate Award is based on surveys and assessments of real estate sector performance and achievements over the past 12 months. The winning firms are selected through an annual real estate awards poll organized by Euromoney magazine’s research team. The award covers real estate practitioners in more than 50 countries. Dubai Islamic Bank has received many awards from international organizations. 


R


----------



## worried1

*Investment Advice*



rexdmx said:


> i would prescribe one lake plaza and gold crest executive as they are closer to the metro. this would be a factor in increasing the premiums...
> indigo tower is also nice


I asked Better homes for listings. They sent me one. Any thoughts on the advice provided below.

I have never indulged in Commercial properties so any advice or a list of questions I should ask Better homes would be greatly appreciated. It is quite surprising that Better Homes as just one property:cheers: 

Community Name : Jumeirah Village South 

Building Name : Jumeirah Wave Business Towers 

Plot No : 012

Floor No : 15th Floor 

Unit No : 1501 And 1508 

Car Park Allowed : 3 car parking 

Selling price : 688.5 AED per sq. ft 



Building Position : Ready end 2008 

Service Charges : T.B.A by the community upon completion 











Office No 1501 



Total Size 1553.14 sq.ft 



Owner paid 25 % 



Amount Be Paid to owner 476,845 AED 



Amount Be Due to Developer 613,879 AED (75 %) 



Payment plan as follows: 



10 % Dec 2007 Amount of 81,850.48 AED



Then 10 % every 4 months till completion 15 % 



1 % commission To Better Homes: 10,907 AED 



Total selling price all include 1,101,631 AED


----------



## worried1

*Payments and currency*

Any bankers on the board:

Yesterday's Khaleej times had an article indicating a revaluation of the AED to the US $ by 35%.

I have payments to make for my properties in Dubai Feb 2008 & July 2008 and so forth.

Apart from paying for all the properties today, is there a way to hedge this currency risk. I understand that until you get a residence visa a foreigner cannot open a AED account; :cheers:


----------



## ferrari430

worried1

The above office space is in JVS not JLT. These will complete not next year but realistically 5 years from now as the whole of jumeirah village south is still barren land! 

Better homes have currently 57 listings for offices in JLT. Search for yourself on their website through the advanced search option.

Enter 
To Buy - Office - Jumeirah Lake Towers

www.bhomes.com


----------



## dubaiquote

worried1 said:


> Any bankers on the board:
> 
> Yesterday's Khaleej times had an article indicating a revaluation of the AED to the US $ by 35%.
> 
> I have payments to make for my properties in Dubai Feb 2008 & July 2008 and so forth.
> 
> Apart from paying for all the properties today, is there a way to hedge this currency risk. I understand that until you get a residence visa a foreigner cannot open a AED account; :cheers:


Worried1 Which country are you in at the moment? 

If in the UK and you are a HSBC customer you CAN open an account in the UAE without living there or having a visa... It will cost you £100 and there is only specific type of account you can open but it does the job for putting AED into , there are charges people in the UK are not used to , but this is someething you have to put up with...


----------



## worried1

*Dubai quote*



dubaiquote said:


> Worried1 Which country are you in at the moment?
> 
> If in the UK and you are a HSBC customer you CAN open an account in the UAE without living there or having a visa... It will cost you £100 and there is only specific type of account you can open but it does the job for putting AED into , there are charges people in the UK are not used to , but this is someething you have to put up with...


Thanks for the info


----------



## rexdmx

worried1 said:


> I asked Better homes for listings. They sent me one. Any thoughts on the advice provided below.
> 
> I have never indulged in Commercial properties so any advice or a list of questions I should ask Better homes would be greatly appreciated. It is quite surprising that Better Homes as just one property:cheers:
> 
> Community Name : Jumeirah Village South
> 
> Building Name : Jumeirah Wave Business Towers
> 
> Plot No : 012
> 
> Floor No : 15th Floor
> 
> Unit No : 1501 And 1508
> 
> Car Park Allowed : 3 car parking
> 
> Selling price : 688.5 AED per sq. ft
> 
> 
> 
> Building Position : Ready end 2008
> 
> Service Charges : T.B.A by the community upon completion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Office No 1501
> 
> 
> 
> Total Size 1553.14 sq.ft
> 
> 
> 
> Owner paid 25 %
> 
> 
> 
> Amount Be Paid to owner 476,845 AED
> 
> 
> 
> Amount Be Due to Developer 613,879 AED (75 %)
> 
> 
> 
> Payment plan as follows:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 % Dec 2007 Amount of 81,850.48 AED
> 
> 
> 
> Then 10 % every 4 months till completion 15 %
> 
> 
> 
> 1 % commission To Better Homes: 10,907 AED
> 
> 
> 
> Total selling price all include 1,101,631 AED



that is jumeirah village south and there is no construction.

in jlt, the commercial space ferrari and i gave opinions on are quite good.

it would also depend on your investment horizon which i may say should be medium to long.
since there is a shortage of commercial space...prices are expected to rise for the next two years.
when all the offices get ready in 2009 and 2010, prices are expected to ease up.
future buyers would buy based on what they would receive as there would be a lot of choices to be made which is why i narrowed ferrari's choice to the ones nearest to the metro.

bear in mind that the others are also splendid. think about it: if you buy mazaya business avenue now you have a huge margin of safety so that you are constantly happy even if the prices rise to 1300 (lower end of the market price) and not to 1600/sq ft.

jlt is worth it.


----------



## glover

looks like work has stopped at Skyview Tower! anyone has any info on this!


----------



## laguna33p

see for yourself.....

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid=09&salerent=0&pid=760549&agentid=08925

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid=09&salerent=0&pid=760581&agentid=08925

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid=09&salerent=0&pid=392897&agentid=04508


----------



## Doctor_UK

*LESSONS TO BE LEARNT*

Guys i have bought an apartment in Park Island, Dubai Marina as an investment. *A BIG THANK YOU *to all the members of this forum as this forum as it would not have been possible without the great informaton and guidance available on this forum.

i am chalking down the mishaps that i had during the whole procedure so that you dont go through it:

1. I applied for morgage through AMLAK. i sent my original documents through UK royal mail registered delivery but the documents got lost. eventually after a lot of stress , my relatives in abu dhabi personally came to dubai karama post office and retrieved the documents. amlak people were not bothered at all. so *ALWAYS USE A RELIABLE COURIER *once sending your documents. i used DHL twice afterwards and there was no problem.

2. i applied for 90% mortagage. the process was delayed soooo much that eventually i had to pay the 55% of the propery value to emaar to prevent the deal from cracking. cansequently, i am only getting 45% mortgage (on the outstanding balance). hence *ALWAYS GET A MORTGAGE ASSESSMENT before you book a property to buy*

3. *AMLAK sucks*. they are not interested in the problems the clients are having. very slow and illogical. i am getting the mortgage through HSBC now.

4. Emaar gave us a property transfer date. i went to dubai myself to sign the paper work. at the *transfer date *(which was given by emaar itself !!), we found out that the seller had a penalty on the last payment and that the transfer date can not be given till 40 days after the penalty. eventually, i had to give the power of attorney to my uncle in abu dhabi who signed the paper work after i left UAE. 

5. I had no problems with gowealthy.

i hope it helps



...


----------



## OmarPERU

Doctor_UK said:


> Guys i have bought an apartment in Park Island, Dubai Marina as an investment. *A BIG THANK YOU *to all the members of this forum as this forum as it would not have been possible without the great informaton and guidance available on this forum.
> 
> i am chalking down the mishaps that i had during the whole procedure so that you dont go through it:
> 
> 1. I applied for morgage through AMLAK. i sent my original documents through UK royal mail registered delivery but the documents got lost. eventually after a lot of stress , my relatives in abu dhabi personally came to dubai karama post office and retrieved the documents. amlak people were not bothered at all. so *ALWAYS USE A RELIABLE COURIER *once sending your documents. i used DHL twice afterwards and there was no problem.
> 
> 2. i applied for 90% mortagage. the process was delayed soooo much that eventually i had to pay the 55% of the propery value to emaar to prevent the deal from cracking. cansequently, i am only getting 45% mortgage (on the outstanding balance). hence *ALWAYS GET A MORTGAGE ASSESSMENT before you book a property to buy*
> 
> 3. *AMLAK sucks*. they are not interested in the problems the clients are having. very slow and illogical. i am getting the mortgage through HSBC now.
> 
> 4. Emaar gave us a property transfer date. i went to dubai myself to sign the paper work. at the *transfer date *(which was given by emaar itself !!), we found out that the seller had a penalty on the last payment and that the transfer date can not be given till 40 days after the penalty. eventually, i had to give the power of attorney to my uncle in abu dhabi who signed the paper work after i left UAE.
> 
> 5. I had no problems with gowealthy.
> 
> i hope it helps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats Doctor_UK! I didn't know AMLAK was so bad, but decided to use HSBC since the beginning, as I have used before. I prefer to monopolize my accounts in a country, so I have more "status" and hence, more power of negotiation. Problem when you go only for 1 service in a financial company is that you can get "lost" easily, and they wouldn't care. 

I was about to buy in PI, but decided to go for Marina Promenade, as delivery date was closer, and want to enjoy Dubai in my own place before I have to move to some other country!!!  

I was planning to get 90% and had the same problem, even having the mortgage approved already. In my case it was because MP is too close to delivery so payments were every month. At the end, i had to pay 25% percent. But it was still ok.

Good luck!


----------



## glover

Congrats Doctor UK. I also bought a one-bed in the Fairfield/Park Island back in May but directly from Emaar.

how much did you pay if i may ask!


----------



## Doctor_UK

thanks omer and glover

glover, i bought it for 1.12 million... details in the park island thread

omer... i must say that, for me, deciding between marina promenade and park island was very difficult.

*the advantages PI has over MP are*

1. Lower Price. i was unable to find any 1br with good marina view and at a reasonable height in MP for less than 1.4 million

2. PI has more potential in terms of capital appreciation. the prices will be more or less the same for both once they are completed.

*the advantages MP has over PI are*

1. More beautiful design. the external tinted glass appearance rocks.

2. Earlier completion date for someone who wants to move in fast and also rental returns will start early.

thanks again




.....


----------



## OmarPERU

Agree 100%. PI is still a good investment in Marina! I was very close to get 1BR in Fairfield... but then, I decided to get an apartment to live in, and got a 2BR, in higher floor, with partial views. Not the best, but very nice in my opinion, and want to move there with my family (my wife and my 2 cats!!! ) We've been moving so many times in the last 2 years, that we want to enjoy our own place as soon as posible. and MP gives you that. Close delivery date, and still good investment. Cheers! :cheers:


----------



## AltinD

WTF are these new "realtor"? How can Jumeirah group let them?


----------



## Salim

hno: Seen the wesite. Nothing new. I wonder how can the B2B keep the promise of completion y Oct 2008 . Perhapes another misleading statement from the developer and the sales agents.:bash:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Not sure it is a good idea to invest with a company who's name starts with DUM :lol:


----------



## Naz UK

Or one who uses a white board and blue marker for its largest pitch.


----------



## Sady

I sold mine on the 22nd Floor for AED 385,000 2 months ago because the project has been delayed for 2 years. According to my contract it was due to finish in May this year but has been postponed to May 2009.
The developer also refused to pay me the fine making many excuses. Hence I decided that I cannot trust them anymore for another 2 years and sold my studio to break even.
I also sold it because it took them 3 months to finish the first 2 floors but it looked like they are building much quicker now.
I wont risk my money with this developer though!
Also it looks cheap for the price but if you look at the price per sq ft its not really, because its very small compared to the other studio. For example mine was only 356 sq ft and some are even around 300 sq ft.


----------



## thedubailife

They selling property in RAK Where a blue marker and white board are cutting edge technology.......They on there last remaining Units is that not what everyone says.


----------



## Morrismarina

AltinD said:


>


I've heard their subsidiary company is called Jamac.


----------



## Krazy

anyone interested? 


* Floating luxury homes worth $50m to go on sale next week*










The fully furnished residences on board have been designed to Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts standards by Tillberg Design, the company which developed the designs for the Queen Mary 2.


Dubai: Floating homes worth up to Dh155 million will be put on sale in Dubai next week.

For the equivalent of approximately 2,000 years rent in a Bur Dubai apartment, buyers will be able to own homes on a luxury ship which will sail to locations including Antarctica and the Amazon and attend events such as the London Olympics and the Monaco Grand Prix.

BV International Ocean Holdings Ltd, the company behind the Four Seasons Ocean Residences project, will bring a scale model of the 719 foot vessel to Dubai's Cityscape exhibition on October 16-18.

Danny Warman, vice-president of Real Estate Investments with BV International Ocean Holdings, told Gulf News he is expecting a strong Middle East reaction to the 112 luxury homes, which range from Dh15.69 million for a one bedroom apartment to Dh155.69 million for a multi-floor penthouse. 

"Our target clientele are people who have been extremely successful, are at the high end of the social scale and want to treat themselves to the ultimate in luxury and travel," he said.

"We expect around five per cent of our sales to come from the Middle East market."

Scheduled for completion and delivery in 2010, the 13-deck ship will circumnavigate the globe, with an average cruising speed of 18.5 knots, visiting cosmopolitan centres and docking or anchoring near remote locations only accessible to a limited number of smaller sized yachts.

The fully furnished residences on board have been designed to Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts standards by Tillberg Design, the company which developed the designs for Queen Mary 2.

Unit prices range from Dh15.69 million for a one bedroom apartment up to Dh52.30 million for a three bedroom apartment.

A limited number of penthouses are also available. Prices range from Dh57.5 to Dh155.69 million. Residences will range in size from 800 to nearly 8,000 square feet.

On board attractions include spas and fitness rooms, four restaurants, a casino, a gourmet market, a business centre with meeting rooms and video conferencing, wine cellar, helipad, putting greens, golf simulator, a retractable marina providing ship-to-shore service, scuba expeditions, and a launch for jet skis or sailboats.

The first journey is scheduled for 2010, with the first two years following a fixed itinerary covering Antarctica, the Amazon, the 2012 Olympics in London and the Grand Prix in Monaco.

Asteco, the strategic partner of Savills (the international sales agent for the project) is responsible for launching sales in the Middle East. Visitors to the Cityscape exhibition will be able to view a computer generated flythrough, showing how the residences and vessel will look once completed.

"Undoubtedly, this will be one of the star attractions at this year's Cityscape," said Andrew Chambers, Asteco's managing director.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10159069.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I don't get it, isn't it cheaper to go on lots of cruise holidays instead ?


----------



## Krazy

Monument said:


> Are there any developments in Dubai where more than 50% is payable on completion?


Dubai Lagoon


----------



## IISinbadII

cugeneva said:


> Furthermore, I heard somewhere that to set up a company no local sponsor would be required. I am not sure if it is true but I guess this could be regarded as a substantial advantage to Dubai.......


Actually Dubai already has several such areas called "Free Zones" e.g. Jabal Ali, JLT, DSO, etc. No local sponsor required to set up company in the free zones.


----------



## thedubailife

Is there a concept of virtuial office in Dubai. I.e just a business address and maybe a computer answering system for phones nothing else


----------



## djamel05

thedubailife said:


> Is there a concept of virtuial office in Dubai. I.e just a business address and maybe a computer answering system for phones nothing else


For businesses incorporated in Dubai, this can not be done. An office is a requirement for registration, for foreign companies, yes they are establishing the outsourcing city just for this kind of activity.


----------



## Naz UK

I hope the "virtual" receptionists will be more, er, receptive than the current "real" ones.


----------



## Imre

djamel05 said:


> For businesses incorporated in Dubai, this can not be done. An office is a requirement for registration, for foreign companies, yes they are establishing the outsourcing city just for this kind of activity.



if you make a company in Ajman Free Zone you can get a virtual office. 15.000 dhs/year


----------



## Morrismarina

Krazy said:


> Dubai Lagoon


Also don't forget Dubai Select if you opt for their 15 year payment plan.


----------



## choco

Kensington Manor
ACW Holdings
Skycom Investments

Does anyone have any (postive/negative) experience of the above? If you have purchased a property through ACW Holdings, did you take any legal advice?


----------



## Krazy

Morrismarina said:


> Also don't forget Dubai Select if you opt for their 15 year payment plan.


Isnt that valid only for UK residents?


----------



## agod

IMO I dont see any comparison with other states, I am no expert on them, but Dubai is miles in front of them, especially Sharjah, which I think will become a district of Dubai in due course, all the others can aspire to are half a dozen new devolpements going on a sandy beach.
where as Dubai, has all the 4 Palms under construction already, The World, Dubai land, Business centres and other centers of excellence, Medical, Internet, Tourism, Silicon Valley, Financial, Things that also come to mind are the new Cargo facilities, huge new ports, Port Rashid more cruise ships are now visiting Dubai, and Jebal Ali, huge new quays to take the worlds biggest ships and the new Airport, again built to take the 38 new airbuses on order for Emirates Airlines, also set to become the biggest in the world, Dubai as the hub, and all those Free Zones and no tax, to bring in the business investment, and more routes will be added soon, lots more happening, and it will become the new Singapore, or Hong Kong, I have no doubt about that.

ALan


----------



## Hanna

*Cityscape*

Hi All


I read this story today about escrow law in Emirates today please paste the link below.It explains there are only 35 companies signed up and the rest have up to December to join.None of the developers at Cityscape could sell there developments if they hadn't signed up.I was wondering are there any way we could get to know who the 35 companies are,I know Damac has not signed up as they would have been the first company to plaster all the newspapers with the announcement and use spin and deceit to convince all and sundry that they were the first to think about it and were just dotting the I & T for this historic moment in Dubai's property market.

I better go now I beginning to sound and think like them :cheers:


http://213.132.44.184/emiratestoday/


----------



## rexdmx

*Dubai will face housing shortage despite Dh62b worth of supply *
By Shakir Husain, Staff Reporter
Published: October 17, 2007, 23:55


Dubai: Dubai's housing market will see Dh62 billion worth of property supply next year, but the demand for accommodation will far outstrip availability, housing finance firm Tamweel said yesterday. 

The shortage of new homes is particularly severe for buyers whose monthly income is less than Dh12,000, while in the luxury and top-end category the supply-demand gap is the narrowest. 

This year the shortfall is about 20,000 residential units worth about Dh34 billion in aggregate value, Tamweel chief executive officer Adel Al Shirawi said. 

"Next year we are expecting about 50,000 units of supply against a demand of 54,000 units. But with last year's unmet demand there will be a shortage of 24,000 units. Supply is not catching up with demand," he said. 


Tamweel estimates 50,893 units worth about Dh62 billion will come onto the market in 2008, while the expected supply in 2009 with be 50,257 units worth about Dh87 billion. 

Distortion 

The market is experiencing a distortion in most segments. 

A Tamweel analysis found that 49 per cent of housing demand came from the low-income bracket but this category of buyers had just 15.4 cent share of new supplies. 

These buyers seek residential units costing less than Dh500,000. Due to the vast supply-demand gap, housing rents and prices for this category are expected to go up. 

"Prices will stabilise in the next three years," Al Shirawi said. 

Top-end units, which sell for more than Dh3 million, make up 26.9 per cent of supply against a demand of just nine per cent. 

For buyers looking for units between Dh1 million and Dh3 million the supply-demand ratio is 26:20. 

Middle-income buyers, who look for residential units between Dh500,000 and Dh1 million, the supplies of units were 31 per cent of the total against a demand of 23 per cent. 

Al Shirawi said developers need to build more houses at prices below Dh500,00


----------



## Naz UK

If Sheikh Mohammed charged Dhs10 every time on of these "experts" spouted off at the mouth about Dubai's rental/real estate predictions, we'd have reached 1 billion Dhs a long time ago.


----------



## thedubailife

Imre said:


> if you make a company in Ajman Free Zone you can get a virtual office. 15.000 dhs/year


Thanks IMRE can this not be done in Dubai yet ???


----------



## ferrari430

*From AMEInfo*

Dubai property prices continue to rise
Asking prices on some key completed developments in Dubai have risen by 10 to 12 per cent over the summer months. This appears to be the now traditional post-summer spike in prices as residents return from their vacations and decide to buy rather than rent.

United Arab Emirates: Sunday, October 14 - 2007 at 11:50 

This evidence is anecdotal but clear enough if you scrutinize the listings on property portals such as Albabworld. 

Take The Meadows villas in Emirates Hills, for example. Here the asking price for a five-bedroom villa was around Dhs4.8m in June while the price of the same accommodation is now on offer for Dhs5.3m; in addition the number of Meadows villas for sale on this portal is down from 20 to 12. 

Or consider a one-bedroom flat at The Greens, a popular development opposite the Dubai Internet City. Units that were for sale around Dhs900,000 are now not priced at less than Dhs1.06m. Again the number of units available for sale in The Greens is down sharply. 

Agents calling
Residents in Emirates Hills regularly have agents walking the streets and asking anybody they meet whether their home is for sale. Others appear to have access to Emaar's lists of owners and make regular phone calls in the hope of finding sellers. 

And the shortage of completed property is evident across Dubai, even in districts where sales had slowed earlier in the year. For instance, the Arabian Ranches only has 38 villas available at the time of writing, while that figure was well over 100 this spring. 

What this surely reflects is that the supply of property to the market in Dubai is not keeping up with burgeoning demand. And there is a very big difference between launching a real estate scheme and delivering completed property in Dubai. 

Perhaps there is too much being done at one time and not enough being finished; or the initial estimates of units under development were greatly exaggerated. It matters not a great deal what the explanation is, the upward pressure on Dubai house prices is plain to any observer. 

And to some extent this is just a process of catch-up as house prices in Dubai still lag behind comparable locations in other parts of the world. And the very attractive 7-10 per cent rental yield also attracts investors and is driving up prices. 

High yields
Eventually Dubai prices should reach a level at which rental yields come into line with global norms. Or alternatively rental prices should fall to depress yields - but in the absence of any oversupply at present that looks most unlikely to happen. 

The constant flow of newly arriving expatriates is probably the biggest pressure from the demand side of the equation. Airport arrivals in 2007 are expected to top 34 million, up by 18 per cent on the previous year. 

These are, of course, not all new residents, far from it. But the increasing flow of bodies through the airport is surely an excellent indication of the level of growth going on in Dubai which is presently phenomenal. 

Will this level of growth prove unsustainable? Well, Dubai's infrastructure is doing a remarkable job at absorbing new residents, and its traffic jams are being tackled successfully now. But clearly growth can slow from this level and the demand for housing will still be strong. 

When will it end?

It would be a bold forecaster that suggested house prices and rents will fall in 2008. EFG Hermes has posited 2009 as the point when supply begins to outstrip demand, while MEED plumps for 2010. 

So by the time house prices start to decline, even a cautious estimate - extrapolating 2007's upturn - would suggest that prices may be 25-30 per cent higher than they are today. Every property market has its own internal dynamics and Dubai seems locked into boom mode.


----------



## rexdmx

Naz UK said:


> If Sheikh Mohammed charged Dhs10 every time on of these "experts" spouted off at the mouth about Dubai's rental/real estate predictions, we'd have reached 1 billion Dhs a long time ago.


well there is no completely objective way of analysis. there has to be some subject element which is why prediction differs...can't blame them all


----------



## Imre

thedubailife said:


> Thanks IMRE can this not be done in Dubai yet ???


i dont know this.


----------



## Masood

*Dubai during the christmas period*

Hi,

I'm planning to come to Dubai during the period between christmas and New years (26th December - 1st January) and wanted to know if developers / real estate agents offices remain open during these times in Dubai ?

I'm thinking of paying a visit to my developers, Desert Homes re: Jumeirah Village South (haven't called them yet to find out) during this time and also visiting a few estate agents to gather some thoughts on the market.

Please advise.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Essa

can someone tell me where i can find any studio in any emirate for under 200k. thanks


----------



## Naz UK

The Emirate of Outside the UAE. Probably.


----------



## ferrari430

^^ Maybe in Emirates City in Ajman. Currently there are 1 beds in rainbow tower 660 sqft selling for AED 252,000 - there arent any studios but if there were in any of the other towers at the above rate ie AED 375 psf you should in theory be able to get a studio for under 200K. Keep a regular eye on the following website - who knows you might get lucky

www.ajmanproperty.com


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Some interesting properties there. 6 years interest free payments for 1 bedroom freehold property for foreigners with only 10% down.


----------



## AltinD

Masood said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm planning to come to Dubai during the period between christmas and New years (26th December - 1st January) and wanted to know if developers / real estate agents offices remain open during these times in Dubai ?
> 
> I'm thinking of paying a visit to my developers, Desert Homes re: Jumeirah Village South (haven't called them yet to find out) during this time and also visiting a few estate agents to gather some thoughts on the market.
> 
> Please advise.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Only 1st of January is public holiday. There's a Muslim holiday at the end of December but I think it falls on 22nd & 23rd or a day later.


----------



## AltinD

thedubailife said:


> Is there a concept of virtuial office in Dubai. I.e just a business address and maybe a computer answering system for phones nothing else


You can register an off-shore company in Jebel Ali Free Zone and you are not required to have an operational office in the country, but you can get a P.O. Box address with it. As for the phones and answering systems, I really don't know.


----------



## Pleth

Has anybody any good suggestions where to buy a studio apartment at the low price scala?


----------



## Pleth

I have bought an aparment in the Al Dua'a Marina Tower. 
I have waited since December for the contract, when I finally got it in July I signed it and sent it back for "them" to sign.
Nothing happened.
Now in October I got a totally different contract, without details of inside finishes such as kitchen, flooring, cuppards, washing machine, fridge etc. And now the apartment has grown from 100 m2 to 150m2 therefore the price has gone up by 50%.
The apartment is only 100 m2 including all the walls. hno:

Is this normal procedure? Have you experienced this?


----------



## Monument

Pleth said:


> Has anybody any good suggestions where to buy a studio apartment at the low price scala?


Al Hamra - Royal; Breeze - is Ras Al Khaimah (if you are willing to look at RAK). 350,000 and upwards.


----------



## Monument

I refer previous conversations on rental and the likelihood of removing a tenant after the contract term is finished.

Speaking to various agents on this subject it seems it is correct that you cannot if they choose to stay. Even if you sign only a one year contract with a tenant the tenant can legitimately stay in the property for more than 1 year (2-3 years) because the Rental Committee will always decide in their favor no matter what the contract says.

Can't help rental prices - I was going to put my 2nd property out for 1 year rental BUT shall not now - only short term lets to holiday makers.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What is the point of a contract if it is not adhered to !


----------



## Morrismarina

Question - when is a contract not a contract ??

Answer - when it's made out in Dubai.


----------



## Morrismarina

Pleth said:


> I have bought an aparment in the Al Dua'a Marina Tower.
> I have waited since December for the contract, when I finally got it in July I signed it and sent it back for "them" to sign.
> Nothing happened.
> Now in October I got a totally different contract, without details of inside finishes such as kitchen, flooring, cuppards, washing machine, fridge etc. And now the apartment has grown from 100 m2 to 150m2 therefore the price has gone up by 50%.
> The apartment is only 100 m2 including all the walls. hno:
> 
> Is this normal procedure? Have you experienced this?


No I haven't experience this at all. Sounds an appalling way to behave. Clearly a warning sign - I'd stay well clear of this developer if I were you.


----------



## Pleth

Monument said:


> Al Hamra - Royal; Breeze - is Ras Al Khaimah (if you are willing to look at RAK). 350,000 and upwards.


It has to be in Dubai. Where is Al Hamra - Royal?

Thank you Morrismarina for your answer.


----------



## MaaaD

thedubailife said:


> Thanks IMRE can this not be done in Dubai yet ???


yes it can .. check out www.regus.ae


----------



## Monument

Pleth said:


> It has to be in Dubai. Where is Al Hamra - Royal?
> 
> Thank you Morrismarina for your answer.


Al Hamra (Royal Breeze sector) is in Ras Al Khaimah - these studios are right on the the seafront with a golf course to the rear. Not Dubai so would not suit your purpose


----------



## Imre

we have 2 new building at the Dubai Waterfront , I did new threads

The Wave Residence
Pixel Tower


prices apr 1300-2100 AED/sqfeet 

Wave , all studios and most of B/Rs sold out
Pixel has a few studios , cheapest one is 715.000 AED (522 sqfeet, 5th floor)


----------



## bizzybonita

International Property Show 2008 increases show area due to high interest









Dawood Al Shezawi, 
Managing Director, 
Strategic Marketing & Exhibitions


International Property Show 2008, the biggest transactional real estate exhibition in the region, will occupy the 11,028 sq m Zabeel Hall of the Dubai International Exhibition Centre, increasing the exhibition area to a total of 30,000 sq m with high expectations of a record participation for the 4th edition of the annual exhibition. With almost 4 months left to the event's opening scheduled for February 17, 2007 organizer Strategic Marketing & Exhibitions has already received an unprecedented number of confirmations with 80% of exhibition space already booked.

Dawood Al Shezawi, Managing Director, Strategic Marketing & Exhibitions, said, “The International Property Show 2008 aims to achieve enormous success as we have been receiving a deluge of queries and booking requests well ahead of the event. We are very excited to witness such an overwhelming response from exhibitors all over the world. The success of the 2007 edition has keyed this surge of interest as exhibitors are now signing up for bigger spaces after achieving positive results in the previous show”.

Among the major exhibitors that have booked their locations early are Al Qudra Holding, Al Fajer Properties, Tameer Holding, Deyaar, Falcon City of Wonders, Sorouh Real Estate, Khoie Properties from UAE, Abyaar Real Estate from Kuwait, Al Madar Group from Qatar, Bulgarian Land Development and the Corcoran Group from the USA, along with other worldwide exhibitors. The organizers expect other key local and regional real estate and property players to confirm their participation at the next edition in the coming months

R


----------



## Naz UK

I like the sight of the participation of a few obscure developers there. Maybe these are the ones that have registered with RERA and sorted out escrow accounts. As for the rest, well this should turn out to be quite a fun afternoon's viewing.


----------



## IISinbadII

*Six-year expat cap gets UAE backing*
by Safura Rahimi on Monday, 22 October 2007 

Construction workers, along with many other expats that are classified as unskilled labourers, will be affected by the proposed six-year residency cap. (Getty Images)Plans that could see millions of people forced out of the Gulf under a six-year residency cap for unskilled workers took a step closer on Monday when the UAE labour minister said the Emirates will back the proposal.

Speaking in the run-up to a meeting of GCC labour ministers in Riyadh next month, Ali Bin Abdullah Al Ka'abi said the issue will be top of the agenda.

“*The cap of three years, renewable for another three years, will be applicable to unskilled labourers working in GCC countries, and will help tackle the demographic imbalance in this region*,” Al Ka'abi said, quoted UAE daily Gulf News.

The proposed cap was first announced by Bahrain Labour Minister Majeed Al-Alawi at the beginning of this month and will be discussed at the upcoming GCC Summit in Doha at the end of the year.

Al-Alawi's initial comments suggested that the proposals will cover all expatriates working in the Gulf, but the minister has since clarified his stance, stating that the cap will only apply to non-professional and semi-skilled labourers. It is still unclear as to who exactly will be included in these categories.

*Al-Alawi said at the time the cap was necessary to stop the erosion of local culture and to stem soaring unemployment among nationals.*

His remarks have sparked a firestorm, with expatriates from across the Gulf accusing the minister's plans of being shortsighted and misguided and claiming the move could have dire consequences for the region's economies. 

Despite the move to limit the cap to non-professionals, the proposal will still have serious consequences for many of the 13 million or so expatriates living in the GCC if it is passed at the GCC summit.

The six countries that make up the GCC - the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and Kuwait - are hugely dependent on foreign workers to drive their booming economies, the vast majority of which are unskilled workers.

According to statistics quoted by newswire AFP, there are around 35 million people living in the GCC, of whom 37% are foreign workers.

Al Ka'abi did say that the cap will be applied to each Gulf state separately, meaning that workers could continue to work in the GCC after six years, just not in the same country.

“However, the cap would be applied in each country separately, so workers can work in other GCC countries after completing six years in one country,” he added.

However, this may come as little comfort for the millions of Indians, Pakistanis and the Filipinos - which make up the vast majority of unskilled workers - that have lived in places in Dubai for years and now consider it their home.

Al Ka'abi stressed the need to enrich national dialogue about the labour issue and to fix the demographic imbalance by reconsidering legislative, executive and regulatory frameworks of the UAE labour market, according to state news agency Wam.

"The UAE is currently spearheading efforts of the labour importing countries to make international conventions on labour rights more responsive to the new realities, including the fact that guest workers in labour receiving countries are temporary residents," Al Ka’abi said, quoted Wam.

He added that the joint forum of the labour exporting and importing countries - to be held in Abu Dhabi in January - will seek to develop a scenario for ensuring rights of foreign workers.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Very bad move IMO.

Does that include taxi drivers ?

How about unemployed expat retirees ?


----------



## IISinbadII

^^

What will be the attitude and interest of these expats once they know they have no future in this country....... 6 years and they gota go.

What about the "erosion of local culture" by expat professionals and skilled labourers?

And what about the "erosion of local culture" by all them foreigners buying freehold property left and right?


----------



## Naz UK

Is anyone aware that the proposed 6-year rule only applies to labourers? So unless we have any construction workers amongst us, we're all safe.

Maybe these posts need to be moved to the construction workers thread.


----------



## rexdmx

glover said:


> see, if you put together all of the above arguments of the benefits of unskilled labor, and if the same conditions were present in your own country, you would still be absolutely against the huge numbers of unskilled labor we have in the gulf in your own country.


it was the gulf who first relaxed their policies to allow immigrants as their population could not and still cannot sustain their economies.




glover said:


> you are also missing one important fact! the alarming number of unskilled labor we have in the gulf is not out of pure economical necessity; rather, it's a combination of politics and economics. the gulf countries get under a lot of pressure to allow in this number of unskilled labor to help out the economies of these countries. That' why we have lax visa policies here.


actually it is out of economical necessity. it is more expensive to hire a local to climb a ladder. gulf countries help themselves more by allowing the unskilled countries. the only way the labourers' country benefit is by remittances




glover said:


> This is not to lessen the crucial part this labor plays in the economies of the gulf, but everywhere here, you see a job that really needs one person is being done by 3-4 people. Also, technology can substitute for a good number of the unskilled labor.


not in the field of construction where labourers are indeed needed and that is where most unskilled labour is. omniyat hasn't built construction robots yet




glover said:


> FYI, the gulf countries are taking this approach because some international treaties/laws now mandate that after a certain period of residency, foreign labor should be granted citizenship. Some international organizations are already putting pressure on gulf countries to that effect.


understandable, certain right of the citizens should be protected but this is not the way to do it. and again people can argue"why should the gulf citizens be given citizenship rights anywhere in the world if expats can't get citizenship in the gulf"

unfortunately not all sides can be pleased in the argument


----------



## glover

we can argue endlessly about this, but i would say that between 25-35% of the unskilled labor in the gulf is economically unnecessary. Anyone who thinks there are no politics behind allowing all this cheap labor in the gulf countries is out of the loop in gulf politics imo.

if you have any doubts about the benefits of foreign unskilled labor in the Gulf for their own countries, just check the numerous studies done by the IMF and the World Bank in that area. Sure, the gulf countries are benefiting enormously from cheap labor, just like all other industrialized countries from their own cheap/illegal labor, but to argue that the relationship is ALL exploitive is idiotic imo.


----------



## AltinD

^^ Of course I will agree that a number of the work force can be reduced by just adding a few supervisors. We have all seen how inefficent the work force is when not supervised and of course there are politics behind the allowing of the cheap labours in the Gulf.

However saying that this move is to correct/eleminate the demographic dissbalance and that they are allowed in to help the economies of their countries of origin, is totally wrong for not saying naive at least.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Naz UK said:


> Is anyone aware that the proposed 6-year rule only applies to labourers? So unless we have any construction workers amongst us, we're all safe.
> 
> Maybe these posts need to be moved to the construction workers thread.


No it applies to anyone at present, potentially including millionaires. "The proposed cap will be applicable for those with an education below secondary school certificate". 

I am not sure if owning a freehold property is an exception or not ?


----------



## AltinD

^^ Is for EMPLOYED people on EMPLOYMENT visas only.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

OK So that should mean that purchasing a property bypasses this cap. 

But people renting will be thrown out of the country if they do not have an education.


----------



## AltinD

^^ And they will be replaced by others like them.


----------



## High Times

Anyone might think that The Sheik is just using foreign labour and foreign investment to build up his country for the good of his people and then tells everyone to [email protected]@k off unless your an arab.

How cynical...................


----------



## Morrismarina

Is it me or are things really getting weird in Dubai.

1) People who have invested in a holiday home (such as JBR or Emaar properties) find upon handover that they cannot rent out short term, then when they are forced to let long term find that the minimum period will be 3 years.

2) Escrow law introduced but is retrospective, potentially putting hundreds of developments already launched at risk.

3) There's a shortgage of unskilled construction workers so, they are forced to go home after being in the country 6 years.

hno:


----------



## Naz UK

This theory is still at the laboratory testing stages, but it could be senile dementia. :runaway:


----------



## Crazy_Horse

Pleth said:


> I have bought an aparment in the Al Dua'a Marina Tower.
> I have waited since December for the contract, when I finally got it in July I signed it and sent it back for "them" to sign.
> Nothing happened.
> Now in October I got a totally different contract, without details of inside finishes such as kitchen, flooring, cuppards, washing machine, fridge etc. And now the apartment has grown from 100 m2 to 150m2 therefore the price has gone up by 50%.
> The apartment is only 100 m2 including all the walls. hno:
> 
> Is this normal procedure? Have you experienced this?


I feel for you but it seems to be normal amongst the lower end and greedy developers. I purchased in Wind and they have revised the contract 4 times, and every time, something substantial is lost. We have lost 1/4 of the apartment area, lost the views, lost parking spaces if we sell, higher service charges, etc, etc..

This will all happen when you have signed a initial contract and handed over some (or a substantial) amount of money.

The only solution is to keep away from these idiot small time developers or wait until the market matures and the gvment get the act together to regulate the industry.


----------



## Morrismarina

Crazy_Horse said:


> I feel for you but it seems to be normal amongst the lower end and greedy developers. I purchased in Wind and they have revised the contract 4 times, and every time, something substantial is lost. We have lost 1/4 of the apartment area, lost the views, lost parking spaces if we sell, higher service charges, etc, etc..
> 
> This will all happen when you have signed a initial contract and handed over some (or a substantial) amount of money.
> 
> The only solution is to keep away from these idiot small time developers or wait until the market matures and the gvment get the act together to regulate the industry.


Are you saying that the developer is changing the contract after it's been signed by both parties ? Surley this can't happen legally, it will mean a contract's not worth the paper it's written on and on that basis nobody would do business in Dubai. Are you really sure the contract was signed beforehand ??


----------



## High Times

Dubai_Steve said:


> OK So that should mean that purchasing a property bypasses this cap.
> 
> But people renting will be thrown out of the country if they do not have an education.


Maybe they should build some schools then.


----------



## Crazy_Horse

Morrismarina, its true... the contracts have been changed AFTER signing. Not once, but at least twice. Some people have not signed them and have had some stern replies from the developer.

ALSO, some of the apartments have been REDUCED in size, the panoramic view window has been changed to brick wall + window, changes when selling (i.e. you cannot sell on the parking space which has been paid for!!!)... etc. There are plenty more.

I assure you, its an absoloute joke of the highest order. I have yet to hear anyone taking a developer to court in Dubai and winning. Its quite a daunting task for a foriegn investor to take a Dubai company to court.

And if too many people get together and take these jokers to court, they just get up and leave - like the Lighthouse company!!! And then there is NOTHING that the Dubai gvmt and auths can do at all. They have nothing from them to pay the investors or no largescale funds to return to the investors. The Lighthouse guy is in the UK at present, living in the country in a huge estate extimated at over $8M USD and there is nothing that the Dubai gvmt guys have from him. The investors are high and dry. There will be more of these in the near future, thats for sure.


----------



## Morrismarina

Crazy_Horse said:


> Morrismarina, its true... the contracts have been changed AFTER signing. Not once, but at least twice. Some people have not signed them and have had some stern replies from the developer.
> 
> ALSO, some of the apartments have been REDUCED in size, the panoramic view window has been changed to brick wall + window, changes when selling (i.e. you cannot sell on the parking space which has been paid for!!!)... etc. There are plenty more.
> 
> I assure you, its an absoloute joke of the highest order. I have yet to hear anyone taking a developer to court in Dubai and winning. Its quite a daunting task for a foriegn investor to take a Dubai company to court.
> 
> And if too many people get together and take these jokers to court, they just get up and leave - like the Lighthouse company!!! And then there is NOTHING that the Dubai gvmt and auths can do at all. They have nothing from them to pay the investors or no largescale funds to return to the investors. The Lighthouse guy is in the UK at present, living in the country in a huge estate extimated at over $8M USD and there is nothing that the Dubai gvmt guys have from him. The investors are high and dry. There will be more of these in the near future, thats for sure.


Well if that's the case I'm speechless. In theory then the developer could reduce your 100 sq metre apartment to just 5 sq metres and then triple the price !! This obviously can't be legal otherwise there's no such thing as a contract in Dubai. So I take it you've stopped making any further payments and asked for your money back ??


----------



## Crazy_Horse

Morriss, This all started AFTER they took all but the last payment from most of the investors. They also announced a delay of 2 years and so far, there is nothing but a hole in the ground. 

The investors in this are so scared of another Lighthouse that they hang on to EVERy word Wind tell them. It was supposed to be finished in Dec 2006 and now its Dec 2008, which looks impossible. There is nothing there but a huge hole, 1 year AFTER it was supposed to be finished.

Its a joke. Moral of the story, Invest with the big hitter like Nakheel or Emaar. Although they are not on time with projects, there is a fair chance they will be completed - eventually!!


----------



## Morrismarina

Crazy_Horse said:


> Morriss, This all started AFTER they took all but the last payment from most of the investors. They also announced a delay of 2 years and so far, there is nothing but a hole in the ground.
> 
> The investors in this are so scared of another Lighthouse that they hang on to EVERy word Wind tell them. It was supposed to be finished in Dec 2006 and now its Dec 2008, which looks impossible. There is nothing there but a huge hole, 1 year AFTER it was supposed to be finished.
> 
> Its a joke. Moral of the story, Invest with the big hitter like Nakheel or Emaar. Although they are not on time with projects, there is a fair chance they will be completed - eventually!!


OMG I didn't know things were so bad, I haven't been following the Wind development that closely. Sounds to me like you have more of a criminal case against them, more like theft by stealing part of your apartment and also your car parking etc.etc. These things are yours and have been stolen from you. But I see that persuing a criminal route may only make things worse such as Lighthouse scenario. It's a disgraceful way to do business - in fact it's not business at all, it's just simply fraud. I guess you can only hang on in there. No wonder the Dubai Authorities have started to tighten things up. Hope it all works out for you in the end.


----------



## True Blue

I think the market for off plans will dry up very soon due to the amount of horror stories emerging from Dubai at the moment. Confidence is foundering and the escrow law is an attempt to settle nerves. 

In my opinion, too little too late.


----------



## Naz UK

Don't really agree with that. The vast majority of complaints are delays. Which is a natural phenomena intrinsic to off-plan buying. Any off-plan investor should know this.

The few bad apples that screw around with ppl's contracts or worse case, run away with people's money, and as far as I know the only one comes to mind is the Lighthouse, are a result of the "open market" of freehold enterprise. Of course RERA and their escrow/registration laws will stop these idiots, but the vast majority of developers are genuine business people, who at worst are naive and in-experienced in the Gulf, or short-sighted and fail to see inherent construction problems down the line.

There is absolutely no evidence in the market that investor confidence is low. Quite to the contrary, even local GCC residents are absolutely destroying local stock markets (just look at the DIFX/DFM figures to see my point) by pulling their monies out and investing in property.

It's a fact that most investors in Dubai are using the property market as bank accounts. Somewhere to store their savings. So delays are a relatively minor issue, if you can handle being without rental income for a couple of years or so.

That's the reality of the situation, whether we choose to believe it or not is another matter.

BTW, I completely agree with all those angry at unscrupulous developers and back them fully in their anger and frustration at those developers who simply do not give a shit about the investors whose trust they have betrayed.


----------



## rexdmx

glover said:


> i hear JBR, contrary to all expectations, is doing so well in terms of sales and rentals. it's heartening to see that giving all the gloom and doom i read here about the kind of effect JBR will have on the Dubai Marina property market once it's handed over. I say the marina has passed the JBR test with flying colors, and even before any of the beach facilities and shopping outlets are done.
> 
> i'm thinking of buying a studio in Jumierah Lake Towers. Any recommendations!


indigo tower; next to the metro
jumeirah bay studio; very affordable
goldcrest views: next to the metro and fully furnished ready next year


shall i go on?


----------



## AltinD

^^ Since when is Goldcrest View next to the Metro station?


----------



## rexdmx

^^^ i mean goldcrest executive 
goldcrest views is ready and executive is ready next year...executive is also fully furnished


----------



## Morrismarina

Anybody know anything about these two developments Kensington Manor & Hanover Square in JV South:

http://www.dubaipropertyexhibition.com/

I might be along to their UK exhibition in Birmingham, just wondered if we had any info or threads for them as cannot find anything ??

Is it worth investing here?? any guesses when they might complete/handover ??


----------



## AltinD

I would not be bothered with the Jumeirah Village at this stage. It will not come of a big surprise if a huge road might get approved to be build in the area and the project to be moved, redesigned or cancelled altogether.

... It has already happenned in the area. :runaway:


----------



## Morrismarina

Many thanks Altin. 

I'll probably leave well alone but I'm going to go along to the "exhibition" if it can be called that next month (two properties on show !! ) be interesting to see what info they provide. I'll be asking whether they have a contractor signed up, their RERA registration number and escrow account details (ie. which bank and their account number). Also if the payments are linked to stages of contruction which is what I would expect given the long build time here. Be interesting to see what they come up with.


----------



## googly

*CNN reports...Bad conditions prompt Dubai strike*

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates --October 28, 2007-- Thousands of foreign construction workers, mostly of south Asian origin, went on strike over harsh working conditions in this booming Gulf city, a day after the government threatened to deport those who had rioted a day earlier over low and delayed salaries.

Cheap foreign labor is drawn into the city from the impoverished lower class of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, forming the vital underpinnings to Dubai's spectacular building boom.

As well as soaring office towers and sprawling residential compounds, whole artificial islands and a winter ski resort has been built in this desert city.

The workers have complained about long hours, no minimum wage, harsh living conditions and no legal forums in which to air their complaints about managemen


----------



## googly

*labour problems will result in further construction delays*

Workers to be deported after violent demonstration 
By Wafa Issa, Staff Reporter
Published: October 28, 2007, 23:02


Dubai: Workers involved in Saturday's violent protest in Jebel Ali industrial area will be deported, said a company representative. 

The company representative said that workers who were involved in vandalising police vehicles and public property and attacking the police and the public with stones had been taken into custody and would be deported.

A labour ministry official confirmed to Gulf News that the workers were in custody and a team from the ministry would complete all the paperwork for cancellation of their visas. 

"All of the workers will get a lifetime ban from working in the country," he told Gulf News.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ thought this would be in the worker's thread 
never the less, this would play another role in delays


----------



## Pleth

Morrismarina said:


> escrow account details (ie. which bank and their account number). Also if the payments are linked to stages of contruction which is what I would expect given the long build time here. Be interesting to see what they come up with.


I am not so worried about this Morrismarina. It seems the Escrow law is pretty strict, and it works well as far as I have heard.


----------



## Pleth

Have any of you heard about a developer that is called Al Sahara?
Good news or bad news??

They are behind Sunset B Gardens in Jumeirah Village.


----------



## dubaifirst

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> Here is a link to lawyers in Dubai from the UK embassy.
> 
> http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/se...t/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1055784860493


Many thanks High Times.


----------



## AltinD

In my opinion Jumeirah Village is the biggest off-plan gamble in Dubai at the moment.


----------



## Naz UK

Jumeirah Village is a piece of shit. You're right AltinD.


----------



## rexdmx

AltinD said:


> In my opinion Jumeirah Village is the biggest off-plan gamble in Dubai at the moment.


the villa investments here by nakheel would pay off in my opinion.
just watch


----------



## Pleth

Naz UK said:


> Jumeirah Village is a piece of shit. You're right AltinD.


Why?
I you compare it to Sports City for instance? I thought Jumeriah Village would be better than Sports City.
And the situation is good, it is near the Free Zones and the Marina. And a nice area with lots of houses as well....
Let me know what you think, and if you know Al Sahara Developer?


----------



## AltinD

^^ You are ignoring the fact that god knows when any construction can start there, or if in a year time will even exist any place called Jumeirah Village. 

Big road corridors are planned for the area so it might come as no surprise if they may pass right where the project is planned to be.


----------



## Naz UK

Jumeirah Village is the new International City. Keep watching.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ the nakheel villas in jum village were around Aed 1.5 million 2 years ago now the prices are around 2.4 million a 60% rise in 2 years is very nice...no doubt as i have said before
the plot sizes are from 6000 sq ft upwards which gives a lot of space

"long term owners would always do better than short term speculators"
villa requirements would grow as there is shortage...


----------



## jixline

^^ or long term investors will end up with a totally different project, like Jum Park


----------



## Naz UK

I must admit, this would be a shit location for a 1km tower. So unbelievably out of place. But I don't expect Nakheel to be putting any thought into things like this.


----------



## IISinbadII

dubaifirst said:


> Many thanks Sinbad. The problem with better homes as with most agents is that when you contact them, they will either tell you that the property is sold, or they can,t get hold of the vendor or the vendor changed his mind or the price they have on their website is quite old.Many thanks anyway for your help and advice.


BH site can give you just a rough idea of the price. But that does not mean your unit will sell at that exat price. An actual deal could close above or below that price. If you dont like BH you can always look at Gulfnews property section.


----------



## ferrari430

Naz UK said:


> I must admit, this would be a shit location for a 1km tower. So unbelievably out of place. But I don't expect Nakheel to be putting any thought into things like this.


who cares - as long as it gives us in the marina and jlt a bit more of a boost - pricewise!


----------



## High Times

Do you really think that a 1k tower going up in the suspected location will boost prices for all the units in the Marina and JLT ?


----------



## ferrari430

^^Yes - it will have some impact - to what extent I dont know.

Look what Burj Dubai tower has done to the Burj area. As Burj Dubai tower is going up so are prices with it. Apartments can sell there for upto 6000 dirhams psf. This is also having a rippling effect on the burj lake hotel, residences etc. This has the potential to be one of the most prestigious sq mile anywhere.

So now if there is another tower to ecclipse burj dubai it is reasonable to expect similar facilities to be built surrounding it and the ripple effect can theoritically double the current prices in the marina and jlt from 1500 and 1200 to 3000 and 2500 respectively maybe in 5/6 years from now. Why not?


----------



## rexdmx

*Credit crunch unlikely to hit UAE *
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: November 02, 2007, 23:40


Dubai: The international credit crunch that stemmed from US subprime mortgage lending is still causing jitters in many global real estate markets, but what impact, if any, will it have on the UAE's booming property sector? 

The implications of a genuine crunch could not be more serious. Lenders stop lending money, companies go bust and economies slip into recession.

The issue raises two questions. Will diminishing access to credit and general nervousness in the West cut foreign spending on UAE real estate, either among second home buyers or institutional investors, and do the same factors that triggered the US crunch apply to the UAE? 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Analysts who responded to Gulf News questions were confident that overseas investment in UAE real estate will not be hampered and could actually increase, owing to tighter local property laws, the weakness of the dirham against major currencies and the growing attractiveness of emerging real estate markets compared to the US and Europe.

"The crunch has affected the US the worst, but there is almost zero per cent US buying in the UAE. Europe and the UK specifically [where a lot of second buyers originate] have not suffered as much," says Barmak Besharaty, managing director of Dubai-based Almas Capital.

Sudhir Kumar, executive dir-ector, property division at Morison (UAE) Consulting says, "I don't foresee any short term negative effect. There is currently a lot of trust among overseas investors in the new property rules and regulations."

If demand from overseas did slip, Dubai-based property titan Nakheel would be among the hardest hit. 

For example, people of 75 nationalities have bought property on its Palm Jumeirah development and approximately 55 per cent of its buyers are from non-GCC countries. 

"We haven't seen any major impact, and I'm not sure that we're going to," Nakheel CEO Chris O'Donnell has told Gulf News. 

"With freehold in place, Dubai has a good opportunity to be seen an emerging market for investment. A lot of investors are diversifying out of their home countries into a country that offers the same Western protection for home ownership."

In the United States, lending to sub-prime borrowers, coupled with declining house prices, meant borrowers defaulted on their mortgage payments in their droves. Countryside, America's biggest mortgage lender, is frantically re-offering financing options to borrowers having trouble meeting their repayments. 

On the up

In the UAE, property prices are on the up and loans are easy to secure. If borrowers get into trouble, they can simply sell their property for a healthy return. 

"There are no UAE subprime borrowers because there is no rating. Everyone here is prime. All the banks and institutions are smart lenders when the prices are going up," says Besharaty. 

Mohammad Bin Braik, CEO of Dubai Properties, says lending to homebuyers in fact has room to grow. "There is opportunity for the financial services industry to be more forthcoming to investors. This is a market where people are only here when they're in employment and employment is in line with the growth trajectory of Dubai," he adds. 

However, some of the conditions which caused the mess in the US are evident in the UAE. Property price appreciation is expected to level off and no mortgage law exists to protect lenders. 

"The price increase is covering all faults. Once that goes away you will quickly find out what laws are needed," says Besharaty.

David Nicholson, general counsel at Nakheel, explains that the market will be tested if and when it loses heat.

"There haven't been any major defaults because the increase in property premiums means if borrowers get into difficulty, they put the property on the market, make a healthy premium and repay," he says. 

"In the next three years, unless banks are able to recover their money in a default situation, they will simply stop lending and that will have a drastic effect on the market."


----------



## AltinD

ferrari430 said:


> ^^Yes - it will have some impact - to what extent I dont know.
> 
> Look what Burj Dubai tower has done to the Burj area. As Burj Dubai tower is going up so are prices with it. Apartments can sell there for upto 6000 dirhams psf. This is also having a rippling effect on the burj lake hotel, residences etc. This has the potential to be one of the most prestigious sq mile anywhere.
> 
> So now if there is another tower to ecclipse burj dubai it is reasonable to expect similar facilities to be built surrounding it and the ripple effect can theoritically double the current prices in the marina and jlt from 1500 and 1200 to 3000 and 2500 respectively maybe in 5/6 years from now. Why not?


The two things are totally unrelated.


----------



## Morrismarina

*Towers reach for the sky on a daily basis as Dubai booms*

The Times 31/10/2007

Vertically ambitious developers sell space before construction as the emirate acquires a look that Manhattan would admireJames Rossiter, Property Correspondent 
Last Friday the 155th floor was completed on Burj Dubai. By yesterday the 156th floor was finished on a building that, at 585.7m (1,922ft) and still growing, is already the world’s tallest tower block.

By the time that Emaar, the largest property company in Dubai, completes the Burj (the Tower), it will rise to 164 floors, to be capped by a spire that will add a few more precious metres. The developers are said to be able to add on more floors if they wish at a later date to ensure that the Burj can see off any competition that might threaten its status as the world’s tallest building.

Such figures set pulses racing in Dubai, a city that resembles a cross between Vancouver and Manhattan, with a smack of the garish self-confidence that hitherto only Las Vegas could muster. Local master planners privately refer to developers’ love of skyscrapers as “architorture”.

It is not only the property developers who are in thrall to what locals regard as an obsession with everything ending in “est”: biggest, tallest, best. The emirate’s rapidly growing population (30,000 people arrive each month) has bought into a vision of world domination handed down from Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum to the people he governs as absolute ruler.

People in Dubai who can spare a few thousand dirhams are playing the property game. If they are not working directly in real estate and that includes a considerable proportion of the population. Most are in property investment speculation, buying half a dozen flats at a time off-plan and holding them until completion or “flipping” them (selling the rights to the homes for a profit within a year).

Prices of Dubai apartments have soared 125 per cent over the past year around the Burj, catalysed by new laws that came into force only at the start of this year allowing, for the first time, foreign ownership of residential property. House-price inflation in other parts of the city has risen by between 20 per cent and 100 per cent over the past year, mirroring similar rates of annual inflation every year since the turn of the millennium.

Dozens of high-rise luxury apartment blocks litter Dubai, all about 97 per cent let. Scores of similar projects are under way, dominated by the big players, such as Emaar, the largest quoted developer, Nakheel and Dubai Properties, which are controlled by the State, and Damac Holding, one of the emirate’s largest privately run residential property developers and owned by Hussain Sajwani. Damac has 79 housing blocks under development and the company will have handed more than 10 per cent of its presold properties by the end of the year.

By the time that Damac lays the first brick on a tower block, it will have presold about 80 per cent of the units with cash in the bank. Buyers pay by instalment covering about 40 per cent of the built value of the entire site. That means that Damac has broken even on its tower blocks before it has started construction.

“In just under five years we have moved 11,000 units to 116 nationalities,” Peter Riddich, the chief executive of Damac, said. British citizens account for about 30 per cent of Damac’s buyers, followed by nearly as many Iranian purchasers, with the balance dominated by a mix from India, Pakistan, other Gulf states, Russia and other republics of the former Soviet Union.

Sheikh Mohammed, the ruler of Dubai and Vice-President and Prime Minister of the United Arab Emirates, has a vision to transform Dubai into a huge financial trading centre. The idea is to attract massive amounts of foreign workers and capital to an emirate that did not have the natural resources of Abu Dhabi, its larger, oil-rich neighbour. One of the key methods of his strategy has been to turn Dubai from a sleepy town into a huge building zone, which is starting to rival Abu Dhabi, the capital of the UAE, in population.

Blair Hagkull, managing director of Jones Lang LaSalle, the property agency, who is based in Dubai said: “We are halfway through a 30-year cycle and, at the end of it, Dubai will be where other cities took 100 years.”


----------



## Imre

Morrismarina said:


> *Towers reach for the sky on a daily basis as Dubai booms*
> 
> 
> Damac has 79 housing blocks under development and the company will have handed more than 10 per cent of its presold properties by the end of the year.


more than 10 %???

which one?


----------



## Naz UK

That's quality peasant-journalism for you. Another great name tarnished by the "Big Mac" quality professionals available in Dubai. hno:


----------



## Imre

Naz UK said:


> That's quality peasant-journalism for you. Another great name tarnished by the "Big Mac" quality professionals available in Dubai. hno:


ok , I dont need 10% , just tell me one DAMAC building which will be ready in this year


----------



## Hanna

Imre said:


> ok , I dont need 10% , just tell me one DAMAC building which will be ready in this year


Hi Imre

You can tell how much the Times Newspaper has done there homework on a company like Damac. I wonder where did they get the information from: direct from the Damac smoke and mirrors dept,its ridiculas how they are allowed to print that tosh,Here's me thinking they were a quality newspaper to.:cheers:


----------



## IISinbadII

May be this is old news, but here is a great way to search Gulfnews property adds. You can even view the actual adds in pdf format:

http://www.gnads4u.com/properties


----------



## Imre

this is not property but it would be a good investment:

DP WORLD IPO (4-15 Nov 2007)

http://www.uae-ipo.com/en/


----------



## Opus 2009

^^
Trouble with subscribing to these IPO's is that unless the application amount is huge, the actual allocation will be trivial due to massive oversubscription. Much better to pay a slight premium and purchase straight after the listing of the DFM.


----------



## Imre

yes but I meant, buying now and selling in the stock market (maybe the first,second week or just keep it)

I am sure the premium will be very high .

minimum investment is 20.000 AED


----------



## rexdmx

Imre said:


> yes but I meant, buying now and selling in the stock market (maybe the first,second week or just keep it)
> 
> I am sure the premium will be very high .
> 
> minimum investment is 20.000 AED


i just downloaded the sample application form  nice


----------



## AltinD

^^ Nice? 

Like "I will frame it and hang on the wall" kind of nice? :dunno:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Is this only possible from inside the UAE? The link is forbidden from the UK. I want one on my wall also


----------



## AltinD

^^ The IPO is for UAE residents and GCC nationals only.


----------



## jixline

@Dubai_Steve

from their FAQ section:


What is the application process?

In order to apply to the UAE Retail Offer starting on 4 November 2007, applicants must complete the following steps:

1. Visit www.uae-ipo.com *(available in the UAE only)* for information on the UAE Retail Offer.


----------



## jeetha

Fraud

February 2007, my family bought two apartment in Dubai, with Aspire group, called “The Elements” (JV South) both different buildings. 15% was paid straightaway. 
10% later on, when it was due. Total paid amount 25% to date. Have all receipts.


1)	After 100s of emails and telephone calls. Aspire tells me, they have forward all funds to Ali Moorsa & Son, who has my money. Since I booked, like all other developments in Dubai, this doubled in price and the developers, and Ali Moorsa & sons are going to remarket the same development, at much higher prices. 

2)	Ali Moorsa, said it has nothing to do with them, because it is Aspire group, who took my money. It is their reasonability.


----------



## Naz UK

Hence the reason for escrow accounts. My advice to anyone: do not give money to any developer, big or small, known or unknown, until you have verified they have registered with RERA and have an escrow account in place.


----------



## rexdmx

AltinD said:


> ^^ Nice?
> 
> Like "I will frame it and hang on the wall" kind of nice? :dunno:


no that it is a relatively simple proceedure kinda nice:lol:


----------



## rexdmx

Dubai_Steve said:


> Is this only possible from inside the UAE? The link is forbidden from the UK. I want one on my wall also


----------



## thedubailife

^^ How does escrow work for projects launched years ago but only starting construction or in early stages.....i.e Torch, Infinity etc


----------



## Naz UK

They will still need an escrow account in place before the end of the year.


----------



## glover

contact RETA and file a complaint with them. They have been encouragng people in the media to contact them in situations like this!



jeetha said:


> Fraud
> 
> February 2007, my family bought two apartment in Dubai, with Aspire group, called “The Elements” (JV South) both different buildings. 15% was paid straightaway.
> 10% later on, when it was due. Total paid amount 25% to date. Have all receipts.
> 
> 
> 1)	After 100s of emails and telephone calls. Aspire tells me, they have forward all funds to Ali Moorsa & Son, who has my money. Since I booked, like all other developments in Dubai, this doubled in price and the developers, and Ali Moorsa & sons are going to remarket the same development, at much higher prices.
> 
> 2)	Ali Moorsa, said it has nothing to do with them, because it is Aspire group, who took my money. It is their reasonability.


----------



## jeetha

glover said:


> contact RETA and file a complaint with them. They have been encouragng people in the media to contact them in situations like this!


Initially Aspire did said, they will return my funds in full, with 100% interest. But they never put it in writing. 

Today that 100% has come down to 50%, still nothing in writing.

Do you have contact number for RETA?


----------



## Essa

i have bought an apartment with Ali Moosa being the developer for it too. what are they going to remarket exactly and is that legal?

also where can i read more about what escrow account is and what RETA stands for?


----------



## Morrismarina

I think you're getting confused here, RETA is the name of the receptionist who works for RERA (Real Estate Regulatory Authority). :lol:


----------



## glover

sorry, that should have been Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA).

reta is the girl next door!


----------



## jeetha

Morrismarina said:


> I think you're getting confused here, RETA is the name of the receptionist who works for RERA (Real Estate Regulatory Authority). :lol:


Real Estate Regulatory Authority. Will try them too.


----------



## Morrismarina

Very well done, you've spotted my deliberate mistake. I was just testing you all to make sure you're awake. :lol:


----------



## yecabel

dear all,
any opinion on RAK and La Hoya Bay?
much appreciated.


----------



## DubaiMarina

yecabel said:


> dear all,
> any opinion on RAK and La Hoya Bay?


hno:


----------



## jeetha

All sorted. Just waiting for funds.

Now I have to find, another plot.....(group) to invest.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Can someone remind me how long I would need to be resident in the UAE before I do not have to pay UK capital gains tax on selling my assets ? If I then bank the cash after that time, can I return to the UK without paying any tax ?


----------



## AltinD

^^ I think I remember reading that you'd have to pay capital gain tax in the UK for any income in the last 6 months before your return to the country.


----------



## ferrari430

^^ from what i know 5 years resident outside UK but still at the discretion of the inland revenue. In simple terms you can visit UK for less than 6 months in a year (meaning reside overseas for at least 6 month and 1 day each year of those 5). 

Its the IRs discretion because if they suspect or can prove in court you are residing abroad just to avoid paying CGT (ie if say you are travelling to uk every week or forthnight to spend time with family) then you will most likely still have to settle the bill on the other hand if you have genuinly emmigrated from the UK then you should be ok

But again im not a qualified accountant. This is from my own research relating to my own circumstances


----------



## Dubai_Steve

So 5 years in Dubai then liquify your assets then wait 6 months then return to the UK.

or is it ok to sell assets within the 1st 4.5 years in Dubai then return to UK 6 months later ?


----------



## DavidR

You can sell your UK asset once you arrive in Dubai and declare yourself non-domiciled in the UK.

You cannot become domiciled back in the UK for another five years after selling the asset. If you do then you will be liable to pay CGT.

Not an expert myself but this is what I was told by a tax accountant.


----------



## Morrismarina

Hi Steve, I think it's best to ring the Inland Revenue (or HM Customs & Revenue as they're now known) and discuss it with them. You'll find they're very helpful. They issue a lot of brochures/guides on various tax issues so they may have one to cover this scenario. I'd also check it out with a good accountant as well before you do anything.

As far I remember when I spoke to them about a year ago, they said that if you were non-resident and sold an asset in the UK then from the time of it's sale there would be no CTG payable so long as you had not become resident in the UK again within 5 years. If you did start to reside in the UK before the 5 years were up (and I think they meant full tax years ?) then you would owe them the full amount of CGT on the same basis that you had not been abroad in the first place.

So IMO you can save a lot of tax by going to Dubai, selling your assets in the UK (eg. rental properties) and so long as you live in Dubai for 5 years then you've saved yourself a lot of tax. You can still visit the UK within the limits but as already pointed out seems they may not like it if you "take the piss" over it. Not sure how they would actually know how many visits you've made to the UK or for how long. As you will have a British passport there would be no visa/stamp to be annotated on it and given the number of illegals/asylum seekers that come to the UK they don't seem to have a clue who's here anyway.


----------



## ferrari430

Dubai_Steve said:


> So 5 years in Dubai then liquify your assets then wait 6 months then return to the UK.
> 
> or is it ok to sell assets within the 1st 4.5 years in Dubai then return to UK 6 months later ?


As been pointed out by others you can sell your asset anytime within the 5 year period but as long as you spent a minimum of 5 years abroad.


----------



## Morrismarina

ferrari430 said:


> As been pointed out by others you can sell your asset anytime within the 5 year period but as long as you spent a minimum of 5 years abroad.


You could be right, thinking about it, when I enquiried I was asking specifically regarding what I intended to do. ie. go to Dubai then sell my UK assets straight away (to pay off the finance on my TT & BC units) I didn't discuss other scenarios with them.


----------



## CHRISDUBAI

Be careful , we bought in Dubai marina: MARINA VIEW TOWERS with desert home. The initial completion date was 31st december 2006, they maintened this date until the end to avoid buyers stop to pay.Some of them finished their payments in dec 2006 . 
The worst is that we received in august 2007 a letter telling that the handover was in september(8 months later) and they asked for the last payment. 2 weeks later,when most of the people paid,they sent us a email telling that the handover was posponed and transformed it in a snagging visit in end october. NOW,in november 9,we have no news!!!!! They have now all the money and they don't want to tell us when we will move in the apartments. We pay hotel apartments since february because they promised us that the handover would be in march 2007 and they posponed it month after month but never by letter or email. 
So be careful and avoid to pay everything , go to the land department to ask what to do.
For marina view tower, I will go to the land department to do a complaint because it's not a legal practise to ask for the final payment before to have the DEWA connection and the certificate of completion from the municipality


----------



## CHRISDUBAI

check your contract carefully about the increase of size. Some people in marina view tower had the bad surprise to pay an extra because the size was bigger than on the contract. They asked this payment only now and some people had to pay a lot of money without telling before and they had 15 days to find the money


----------



## Masood

CHRISDUBAI said:


> check your contract carefully about the increase of size. Some people in marina view tower had the bad surprise to pay an extra because the size was bigger than on the contract. They asked this payment only now and some people had to pay a lot of money without telling before and they had 15 days to find the money


Chris,

Many thanks for the advice upfront mate. I have been reading the MVT forum with a vested interest in Desert Home (being the developer of Desert Rose). I will take on board the advice given by yourself and other forum members on MVT. Any other tips regards to tackling Desert Homes ? I am hoping they would've learnt from their mistakes on MVT and it will be a much smoother ride on Desert Rose for us investors!


----------



## Essa

Dear all, what do you think abt emirates city in ajman?


----------



## bizzybonita

Lawyer says check your contract first









Dubai has gone some way towards ensuring the rights of property owners, but a feeling persists that more will need to be done to get developers to translate promises into reality. 

It is very easy to become carried away with glossy brochures and thoughts of a beachfront home. But it must not be forgotten that buying a property is one of the biggest investments one will ever make. 

To ensure that the investments are protected, the legal side to buying property should also be taken into consideration — every time. 

“The laws are in place to protect homeowners to some degree, however the contracts are definitely biased in favour of the developers,” articulates Carol Alderson, a practising lawyer and Partner at Al Midfa & Associates. 

“Most contracts I see are distinctly one-sided and becoming increasingly more so.

“Some contracts don’t even refer to the title. When you buy a property you should know this. A number of contracts do not define the amount of the service charge. 

“One other element is that the contract between the master and sub-developer is often cut and pasted and the contract that you, as end-user, receive is not particularly relevant.”

Despite a number of ambiguities in the sales contracts, it does seem that many investors just do not care and not reading the fine print closely enough. 

Alderson says, “It is very difficult to persuade certain developers to change their contracts. 

“I may represent one client but the developer will say that, because they have sold a hundred other apartments and no one has complained, why should they change it for me? A lot of people are buying property here and not consulting a lawyer or reading their contract thoroughly.” 

Over the last few months, the market has been rife with instances of steep increases in maintenance charges at some of the leading residential developments in the city. 

“The increase in maintenance charges has been a challenge. It should be the right of every homeowner to see a copy of the accounts, but a number of developers are refusing to give these out,” the lawyer notes. 

Car parking is quite an issue for apartment owners. 

“The Dubai Municipality stipulates that every apartment should have parking, but some people have purchased an apartment and are then subsequently told that they have to pay an extra Dh75,000 for a space.” 

This is where additional laws or even updates on the existing ones can come in real handy, for homeowner and developer alike. 

Alderson says, “The law here is still not as complete as it could be. I would like to see an Unfair Contract Law, which would stop the bias in favour of one party. 

“In addition, there should be a Misrepresentation Act, which would prevent developers and real estate agents from advertising any developments that are not as they will ultimately be constructed. ‘Caveat emptor’ springs to mind, which means ‘Let the buyer beware’.” 


R


----------



## Hanna

Hi bizzybonita

Can you tell me where you got the above extract from Carol Alderson was my Lawyer so I should be covered on most of the above. :cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

^^it's one of the today articles in magazine properity weekly...:cheers:


----------



## Hanna

bizzybonita said:


> ^^it's one of the today articles in magazine properity weekly...:cheers:


Hi bizzybonita


Could you attach the link please :cheers::cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

^^
:cheers:
http://www.propertyweekly.ae/home/main_stories/20004045.html


----------



## Hanna

bizzybonita said:


> ^^
> :cheers:
> http://www.propertyweekly.ae/home/main_stories/20004045.html


Hi bizzybonita

Thanks for that :cheers:


----------



## Hanna

Hi All

I read this story in the Daily Mail today :cheers:



It's Corrie in the sun ... but the building may stop in Dubai
Last updated at 00:11am on 10th November 2007

Comments Comments (2)
New aerial pictures of Dubai reveal tightly packed houses, looking very much like the famous terraced houses of long-running British television show Coronation Street.

However, newly built developments may become a thing of the past as the tumbling US dollar is stirring trouble in Dubai's construction industry.

The problems have fueled labour protests, squeezing contractors' margins and threatened work on the building site of the world's tallest building, the $20 billion Burj Dubai development.

Dubai is the commercial center of the United Arab Emirates (UAE), which links its Dirham currency to the dollar. The dollar's slide to record lows on global markets is reducing the amount of money most of Dubai's expatriate workers can send home.

Room with a view: Residential homes have been completed overlooking the landmark Palm Island Jumeirah
That and grievances about work conditions have sparked protests among labourers employed by Arabtec Holding, the UAE's largest construction company.

"The Indian currency now is too high. That's why my salary is too small," said a 26-year-old striking Arabtec employee from the Indian state of Andhra Pradesh.

Indians make up the biggest community in the UAE, which is the world's sixth-largest oil exporter and where foreigners make up more than 80 percent of the population.


South Asian labour, mainly from India, is the backbone of construction industry in Dubai, which is building palm-tree shaped islands and the Burj Dubai development.

They endure outdoor work in temperatures that can approach 50 degrees Celsius (122 Fahrenheit) in summer to send a few hundred dirhams back home to countries such as India, where the rupee hit 39.16 to the dollar this week - its strongest since March 1998.

Scroll down for more ...
The Burj Dubai

On schedule? - The $20 billion Burj Dubai development has been affected by strike action
"The worst affected are the workers because they are earning in the range of 500 to 600 dirhams a month so they find it very difficult to be here," said Mathew Varghese, a construction executive at Wade Adams Contracting in Dubai.

The United Arab Emirates cabinet called last week for "urgent" action on pay for foreign labour. Government officials and an Indian diplomat visited an Arabtec construction site that was hit by the stoppage.

Arabtec is among the contractors working on the Burj Dubai project.

"Work is continuing on Burj Dubai for on-schedule completion at the end of 2008," developer Emaar Properties said when asked whether the project was affected by the Arabtec strike.

"Emaar Properties is confident that Burj Dubai will be completed on schedule," the company said.

Dubai-based Shuaa Capital said property developers would likely have to bear the brunt of any pay hike agreed by contractors or imposed by the government.

An aerial view of The Palm Island Jumeirah
Enlarge the image

"In our opinion such adjustment to labour costs will immediately impact the margin of construction firms and developers alike," Shuaa said.

"Large contractors will likely, with their growing negotiation power, attempt to push these rising expenses on to developers," it said.


----------



## High Times

^^

The UAE can stop all this very easily and take control of their economy and dump the Dollar.


----------



## bizzybonita

Hanna said:


> Hi bizzybonita
> 
> Thanks for that :cheers:


most welcome :cheers:


----------



## rexdmx

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> The UAE can stop all this very easily and take control of their economy and dump the Dollar.


sorry not that simple


----------



## heatstor

Not simple but is there any other solution.


----------



## thedubailife

Hanna said:


> Hi All
> 
> Can anyone tell if the daily newspaper Emirates today e-paper still exists
> I cannot see any trace since about two weeks ago when it went off line
> has the newspaper folded or has the online version shutdown now for some
> reason, it was one of the best online papers you could read (any clues):cheers:


http://www.emiratestodayonline.com/


----------



## Hanna

thedubailife said:


> http://www.emiratestodayonline.com/


Hi thedubailife

Thanks for the info I see they have changed the format of the paper :cheers:


----------



## Greekgirl

Guys, i am looking to buy in the marina promenade, the agency told me that i may not be able to rent it out for holiday lets, is that correct?


----------



## V Kapoor

*Bombshell!*

^^^^
What an AVTAR.....


----------



## nauras

hey guys....we are looking for a whole building in discover gardens...meditarenean type (around 66 units inclusive of studi and 1 bdr)...plz PM if u have any serious sellers.....AND NO DAMAC's tera del sol plzzz


----------



## IISinbadII

Greekgirl said:


> Guys, i am looking to buy in the marina promenade, the agency told me that i may not be able to rent it out for holiday lets, is that correct?


A few months back Emaar had put out a memo against short-term lets for their properties. However their is a possibility that you could still do short-term lets as long as it is managed by a company (like Better Homes) and the "short-terms" are not less than 1 week duration. In other words they want licensed professionals doing it the "right way" and not individuals.

Also a new law governing holiday lets is expected soon. It would clarify many of these related issues.


----------



## Greekgirl

thanks guys for your valuable feedback.


----------



## Naz UK

Thank you too, for your valuable avatar.


----------



## VineLLo

Hi. I'm new on this forum...
I would know if I'm wrong to invest in this building...
Is very strange the long time to rise this and the lowest price compare to the others in Marina...
I would have some informations please.
Thank you for your answers -Francesco-


----------



## boston101

Does anyone have insight on Marina Views Tower A & B buildings. Is it a good place to invest in terms of building, location, etc? Any feedback is appreciated.


----------



## BinDubai

Naz UK said:


> Thank you too, for your valuable avatar.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Masood

*Selling Dubai property via estate agents in UK*

All,

Has anyone used or been successful in using the numerous estate agencies here in the UK for selling their properties in Dubai ?

What sort of fees do they ask for (I've been quoted 2%) ?

Any experiences or feedback on estate agents will be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Sady

Hi,

You probably saw my email above that I sold mine couple of months ago as according to my contract the completion has been postponed to 2 years. I wont be surprised if there is more delay in the future. Also they refuse to pay me the find as stated on my contract and provided stupid reasons such as they did not get the permission letter from the neighbouring building as the guy was on holiday etc. Anyway, I think it is a big risk to take to invest here. However if you are not worried about the completion date, then it might be worth as it is cheaper than any other developments.
Hope this helps!


----------



## Greekgirl

Guys, am i missing something here? my agent in Dubai told me that I can achieve an average of 10% net return on a buy to let property. I worked out the figures and they don,t stack up. If I pay 1.5 M for a 1 bed property which is nearly ready for rent, the average current annual rental is 120 K AED. This makes a gross yield of 8%, allow say 25% for agency fees and maintenance, this leaves a net yield of only 6%. well I am currently getting 6.7% from Icesave.Is it worth it guys? your thoughts please.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Are you sure you can not get any more rent than that?

In any case it is worth it if you take out a mortgage rather than buy with cash. You should cover your expenses and mortgage payments from the rent. You can then wait until the rent pays off the mortgage in total leaving you with a property all paid for at the market value for only the cost of a deposit. Of course you can sell at any time and take the capital gains.


----------



## VineLLo

Thank you Sady for your very important informations! See you later -Francesco-


----------



## Naz UK

10% is a tad over-ambitious when you take into account agency fees, maintenance, etc. although it does depend on where you buy, but it still is possible.

6-7% is more likely, but still a lot more than many established rental markets around the world, e.g. UK, USA, etc.


----------



## googly

Naz UK said:


> 10% is a tad over-ambitious when you take into account agency fees, maintenance, etc. although it does depend on where you buy, but it still is possible.
> 
> 6-7% is more likely, but still a lot more than many established rental markets around the world, e.g. UK, USA, etc.


Add to that the weakening of the dirham compared to major world currencies (except the US dollar), and you will end up with an even lower figure than 6%. Having said that, capital appreciation is where you will make money.


----------



## Imre

*Dubai Ports World announces IPO pricing *
Gulf News Report 
Published: November 21, 2007, 12:23


Dubai: DP World, the world's third largest container terminal operator, which floated the Gulf's biggest initial public offering, *has priced shares at $1.30 per share.*
The figure is at the top of its indicative range of $1.00 -$1.30 per share, implying a market capitalisation for DP World of $21.6 billion, a statement said.

"Twenty-three percent of the shares of DP World, amounting to 3,818.0 million shares, comprised of 3,245.3 million shares plus up to an additional 572.7 million shares available through the greenshoe over-allotment option, was offered globally by its sole shareholder, Dubai World subsidiary Port & Free Zone World (P&FZ World), to international institutional investors, and in the UAE to retail investors," the statement added. 
A portion was also allocated to holders of the PCFC convertible Islamic bond, or sukuk, that was issued in January 2006.

"Including the greenshoe, the proceeds of the IPO amount to $4.96 billion, making it the largest IPO ever in the Middle East," it said.

The IPO opened on 4 November 2007, with the UAE retail offer closing on 15 November 2007 and the institutional offering closing on 20 November 2007. The deal has been more than 15 times oversubscribed.

Excluding 25 per cent of the shares expected to be allocated to sukuk holders, approximately 10 per cent of the shares offered will be allocated to retail investors, with the rest to institutional investors. Accepted applicants in the UAE retail offer will receive a minimum allotment of 3,500 shares with allocation pro rated thereafter.

Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayem, chairman of Dubai World and DP World, said: “The fact the IPO has been so heavily oversubscribed reflects the market’s confidence in the business, its management, and the company’s potential in the future.

“There was strong demand for the shares internationally amongst institutions, similar to that we experienced with our bond and sukuk issues in June, and DP World will have a solid base of international investors who are looking to grow value over time. Orders were particularly strong from institutional investors in the UAE and in the US and Europe.

“But importantly, we also saw strong demand from retail investors throughout the UAE, and Dubai in particular, and from both UAE residents and other GCC nationals. We said when we launched the IPO earlier this month that we were keen investors in our home market participated in DP World’s future. The allocation we have agreed on will see all those whose applications were accepted receiving at least 3500 shares.

“We believe the combination of price and allocation strikes a good balance between stability and liquidity for the secondary market.

“This is an important step for Dubai World and for Dubai. We look forward to sharing our success with shareholders into the future.”

The shares are expected to be listed on the Dubai International Financial Exchange (DIFX) on 26 November.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What % Return on Investment do you expect to make on your purchase Imre ?


----------



## Imre

more than 100%

we will see the first price on 26 November


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ lucky you, beats waiting for the Torch to complete , if only I lived in Dubai I could have also doubled my money. :nuts:


----------



## Imre

not lucky, this is just my prediction, and still dont know the allocation.
I will have not so much because more than 15 times oversubscribed


----------



## ferrari430

^^ allocation will be the big issue here. Firstly there is a certain max limit no of shares that you can apply for which is usually not a lot for a popular IPO and if it is 15 times oversubscribed you will get 15 times less. Maybe best time to buy is when it floats on DIFX on the 26th.. but as you predict imre it can quite possibly double .. even overnight!


----------



## smarlar

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Simply visit us at WatermarkVacationRentals.com. Start maximizing your rental revenue today!


----------



## Maha

^^ is that spam or something?


----------



## Hanna

*Damac expand*

Hi All

I read this today in Gulfnews.


Damac to invest $5b in India as booming economy spurs demand 
Bloomberg
Published: November 23, 2007, 01:04


Mumbai: Dubai-based Damac Properties plans to invest as much as $5 billion in India over the next three years as a booming economy spurs demand for real estate.

The developer will construct houses, offices and shops in Mumbai, New Delhi, Hyderabad and Bangalore, Chairman Hussain Sajwani said from Mumbai. The first project will be started in 12 months, he said.

Soaring office rents and a shortage of apartments is luring developers including Donald Trump Jr and Emaar Properties to India. Damac has built waterfront luxury projects in the UAE and is investing in Saudi Arabia and Egypt as it expands outside Dubai.

"There is a latent demand for high-end and luxury properties as the economy booms and income levels rise," said Malvika Chandra, head of India research at Knight Frank in Mumbai. "The right products are getting lapped up." 

Supply crunch

India's 1.1 billion population faces a shortage of 25 million housing units, according to government data. The government is seeking to encourage the purchase of homes by giving tax breaks and ensuring easy availability of bank loans.

"We plan to meet the funding requirement from our internal resources," Sajwani said. 

Demand for property is soaring in the world's fastest-growing major economy after China. India is poised for nine per cent growth in the year to March 31, following an average 8.6 per cent average rise in the past four years.

Economic growth and the rising value of stocks and real estate are increasing the number of affluent in India. The number of Indians with the financial wealth of $1 million or more rose by a fifth, the second fastest in Asia after Singapore, to about 100,000 last year, according to Merrill Lynch & Co and Cap Gemini SA.

Rising demand is pushing up property prices with houses in south Mumbai doubling in the past two years, according to estimates by Cushman & Wakefield. "We are on the luxury segment of the market so rising prices in India is not a concern," Sajwani said.

Developers including Emaar MGF Land, Lodha Developers and Oberoi Constructions are seeking to benefit from rising demand in the country.

Still, a rise in the supply of high-end houses could hurt their future growth, according to DTZ Research. The number of high-end houses in Gurgaon, adjacent to New Delhi, could triple to 10,500 by 2010, DTZ said.

Most of these are being constructed by DLF Ltd, India's biggest developer, Emaar MGF Land, Unitech and Parsvnath Developers, it said. :cheers:


----------



## Essa

Guys which one you think is a better investment, jvs or emirates city?


----------



## AltinD

Maha said:


> ^^ is that spam or something?


That's not "spam or something", it's "spam" only. :yes:


----------



## rexdmx

*UAE property market set for expansion *
WAM
Published: November 24, 2007, 01:31


Abu Dhabi: The UAE property market will get 2.5 million units in the form of housing, recreation and tourism complexes by 2020, according to a spokesman for Abu Dhabi real estate company Manazil.

Abu Dhabi will have the largest share of this development with around 40 per cent of the units, he said.

Manazil focuses on redesigning buildings to make optimum use of their utilities. The real estate firm is also involved in the development of three-star hotels.

The spokesman said property projects with a capital of Dh 35 billion had the potential to generate annual revenues of 20-30 per cent. 

He praised the UAE government's initiative to issue new laws and regulations in the property sector. He said these have created an appropriate investment atmosphere for foreign investment


----------



## AltinD

Lame.


----------



## sval

*QUEUE POINT - LIWAN - A GOOD INVESTMENT*

Is Queue Point at Liwan a good investment. The price looks competitive, under Dhs.700/ sq ft. The location is also quite good with good access to both Old and New Dubai.
Any feedback would be most welcome since the builder looks to be quite new.


----------



## ali1970

Nice looking I think however yes too expensive.

Regards
Ali


----------



## rexdmx

^^^ so?


----------



## Opus 2009

Does Palazzo Versace seem like a good investment @ Dhs 6,000 per sq ft for the water facing units? A lot of money, but cheap as compared to Armani residences at the Burj.


----------



## High Times

I think you should ask yourself why it is priced that high?

Is it because they are using better quality materials than any other development? 
Are they offering better services, are they offering better locations/views?

No they are selling their *brand*, and thats why in my opinion it is over priced.

Just because it has a name like Versace, Armani it doesn't make it a good property investment. Your better off looking at the usual criteria;

Location
Views
Build Quality.


----------



## rexdmx

Imre said:


> more than 100%
> 
> we will see the first price on 26 November




*DP World shares rise 4.62% on DIFX debut *
By Shakir Husain, Staff Reporter
Published: November 26, 2007, 22:35


Dubai: Shares of port operator DP World rose 4.62 per cent on the first day of trading as the company listed on the Dubai International Financial Exchange (DIFX) on Monday.

Priced at $1.30 per share, the stock jumped to $1.44 at one time during trading, but ended the day at $1.36.

DP World raised $4.96 billion in its initial public offering (IPO) last week by selling 23 per cent stake.

The company sold 3,818 million shares to about 200 regional and global institutional investors and 57,000 individuals from the Gulf at $1.30 per unit, making it the biggest public share sale in the region. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


More than 303 million shares were traded yesterday, marking a record for the DIFX, which has struggled to achieve liquidity. "I think DP World is the real launch of the DIFX as a liquid exchange. I do not recall the DIFX having recorded such volumes and value on a single day in equities," said Mohammad Yasin, managing director of Shuaa Securities.

He said the first day liquidity would also be encouraging for investors and "if this liquidity is sustained, then it will speed up planned listing of other companies."

The DP World share issue was oversubscribed by more than 15 times.

Holders of the $3.5 billion Islamic bond sold by DP World's parent, Ports, Customs and Free Zone Corporation (PCFC) in 2006 received 25 per cent of the total offered shares.

Of the remaining shares, 40 per cent were allocated to institutional and retail investors from the region, 20 per cent to US investors and 30 per cent to those from Europe, officials told Gulf News.

Satisfied

Asked if DP World missed an opportunity to offer more shares to the public in view of the huge response, chief executive officer Mohammad Sharaf said the company is satisfied with the 23 per cent flotation.

The company had initially offered 20 per cent shares in the IPO but raised the offer citing better than expected demand. It also priced the shares at the top of the $1-$1.30 indicative range.

Sharaf added that at present, the company is not considering a secondary listing.

Profile: Capacity to be doubled

DP World operates 43 terminals in 23 countries and has 13 projects under development. It is also has 10 project to upgrade capacity at its existing container terminals.

The company aims to nearly double its container handling capacity to 90 million TEUs (twenty-foot equivalent units) in 10 years.

Its capacity was 48.6 million TEUs and throughput 36.8 million at the end of 2006. DP World generated $705.3 million in earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortisation (ebitda) last year.


----------



## glover

*Work on Al Sufouh tram on track for January start*

By Ashfaq Ahmed, Staff Reporter
Published: November 27, 2007, 00:11
Gulf News

"The 15-km tram lines will run on Al Sufouh Road connecting Burj Al Arab and Jumeirah Beach Residence (JBR) and Jumeirah Lake Towers," said Engineer Abdul Majid Khaja, Chief Executive Officer of the Rail Agency at the Dubai Roads and Transport Authority (RTA).

In an exclusive interview with Gulf News, Al Khaja said the tram project would be completed within 21 months and would be operational in September 2009 with the completion of the Red Line of the Dubai Metro, which runs along Shaikh Zayed Road.

Metro connection

"The tram will be connected to the Red Line at three points including Burj Al Arab Station, Dubai Marina Station and Ibn Battuta Mall Station to facilitate commuters reach metro stations," he revealed.

The tram will serve areas such as Internet city, Dubai Marina, Media City, Knowledge Village, JBR and a dozens of luxury hotels in the area, which have already started facing traffic congestion.

"More than half a million people in the area are expected to benefit from the tram project, which is part of the RTA's plan to provide integrated mass transit facilities connecting trams, buses, metro and water transport projects.

The first phase of the tram project is also nicknamed 'The Shopping Trolley' as it will provide a link to major shopping areas including Mall of Emirates, Madinat Jumeirah and Ibn Battuta Mall.

"There will be a total of 270 km of tram network in Dubai in both old and new areas to feed the metro stations in addition to providing alternate modes of transport in different areas," said Al Khaja. The RTA will spend some Dh 9.19 billion on different phases of the tram project.

Complete journey

There will be around 19 stations planned for the tram route subject to change. Al Sufouh Tram network will also connect to the Jumeirah Palm Mono Rail project in future.

"People, who will use Dubai Metro favour a complete journey experience. Tram system and public buses are answer to their concerns as they will all be integrated to complete journey from one point to another without the need of using a private car," he noted.

There will two tracks for the tram and its average speed will be 25km per hour. Unlike Dubai Metro, trams will be driven by drivers because it mingles with vehicular traffic on the road. 

The RTA is already working to improve the road network in the Al Sufouh area. According to the RTA studies, around 110,000 people are expected to reside in Dubai Marina and Jumeirah Beach Residences and some 150,000 people will live in Jumeirah Lake Towers area.

Around 100,000 people are expected to come for work in the area, which also includes Dubai Media City, the Internet City and the Knowledge Village.

Future plans: Extension to Union House

Al Sufouh Tram Project is likely to be extended on Jumeirah Road upto the Union House in future.

The Dubai Roads and Transport Authority (RTA) is, currently, studying the options of extending the tram network to other areas including Jumeirah Road.

The tram network will be linked to the nearest station of the Metro line. "The tram project will encourage people in these posh areas to use alternate mode of transport instead of personal cars," an RTA official said.


----------



## Moez

Hi,
We have bought 2 bedrooms apartment in Desert Rose and now we are processing the payment of the second part. We visited last week JVS but we didn't see any progression in the project.
So, do you have any feedback on Desert Rose or Desert Homes?
Thank you


----------



## Imre

^^
map:


----------



## Imre

there is no 1 bed just 2 and 3 beds

launch was in July 2004 ,some original prices:

avant:

1203	A 3(2 bed)	1758 1,332,000 
1204	A 4(2 bed)	1758 1,332,000 
1603	A 3(2 bed)	1758 1,394,000 

oceanic:

1404	O 4(2 bed)	1792 1,398,000 
2204	O 4 A(2 bed)	1792 1,454,000 
2404	O 4 A(2 bed)	1792 1,395,000 
2904	O 4 B(2 bed)	1901 1,420,000

payment plan was very good:

10% upon signing of contract
10% Due on October 15th 2004
10% Due on completion of all three basement floors, anticipated around 1st March 2005
10% Due on completion of 5th floor slab, anticipated around 1st June 2005
60% Final Installment Due upon occupation date


launch prices were cheaper:

avant:

2 B/r 1756 Sq.ft Each Priced From AED 1,268,000.00 And Up

3 B/r 2361 Sq.Ft. Each Priced From AED 1,764,000.00 And Up

penthouse 2 Units Of Approx 10,000 Sq.ft. Each Priced at 6,950,000.00

oceanic:

2 B/r 1700-1800 Sq.ft and Up, Each Priced From AED 1,260,000.00 And Up

3 B/r 2400 Sq.Ft. Each Priced From AED 1,675,000.00 And Up 

penthouse Approx 10,000 Sq.ft. Each Priced at 6,950,000.00

Marina homes of Apprx. 8030 sq ft – 9860 sq ft. Each priced between AED 4,775,000- AED 4,975,000. ( today Gulfnews I saw for 12.5M)


----------



## dubaiprojects

Hi,
Thanks for providing launch price details, what about the current re sale prices?

Regards


----------



## Imre

cheapest 2 B/r 2.3-2.5m , 3 B/r 3.0-3.2 m but I think those are just low floor and partial marina view


----------



## dubaiprojects

Greetings,

Has any one invested in JLT? Just like to know the rental prospectus there?
I have a 1 bed in icon there. What would be the rent of i bed in jlt?


Cheers


----------



## agod

Hi High Times

Yes thank you for that, I can just see The Torch going up from my balcony, I am a lucky sod really, I loved the Trident style, and went for a 3 bed in The Waterfront, but it was really hard getting my head around all the other devolpements that where going on, it got sold from under me, for £310.000, Sue Stokes at Oryx said there was a 2 bed in Marinascape, I said yes to it, not knowing what I had bought, it was 1.9 Million Dirhams, and that exchange rate then was 6.4, so it was about £290.000, at todays rate, the last payment of 60% has really reduced, making it about £245.000.

Like you I can't wait to leave these shores behind, and park my boat next to yours in the marina.

Can I just point out to everyone, that what they seem to leave of their calculations, is the fact that you are not paying for the Infastructure, no tax means just that, The Metro, The Roads The Trams, The ports, The Airport, and I could go on and on, are all free, and that is worth billions of pounds, and someone will tell me, must be worth at least 25% of your income, try having an American property and see how they pick your pockets there.

Alan




High Times said:


> Hi Alan,
> 
> I would guess that you should get around Dhs 180k - Dhs 200k pa. But i'm no expert i have to say. Still i think demand will be high in 6 months for a unit of such quality. I would look into what will be coming on stream for rent at the same time as your unit so you know what your up against from a potential tennants point of view.
> 
> Congratulations on your investment at Marinascape. Definately one of the best developments in the Marina IMO.
> 
> You should have wicked views from your unit i would imagine.


----------



## IISinbadII

DubaiDream said:


> Could someone please give me their thoughts on a JBR apartment, 2 bed, full sea views - Block Number C08, 2nd floor (which I am told is about 6 storeys off the ground) - £300K, direct from the developer - thinking of buying many thanks


Regarding JBR keep in mind that the view changes from apartment to apartment. So before you buy, actually go inside the unit and look for yourself.

Also the Premier Real Estate Bureau are the so called "JBR Specialists". You can check their prices on this link:

http://www.prebdubai.com/Properties.html


----------



## Morten_Denmark

IISinbadII said:


> Regarding JBR keep in mind that the view changes from apartment to apartment. So before you buy, actually go inside the unit and look for yourself.
> 
> Also the Premier Real Estate Bureau are the so called "JBR Specialists". You can check their prices on this link:
> 
> http://www.prebdubai.com/Properties.html



They do not update their homepage very frequently - same units as shown in June - prob using this method to attract buyers. It is very difficult to find a full seaview apartment located at a decent level in JBR. I would say - 2B - 1400 sf => 2.800.000 Dhs. That said - I can only agree with Sinbad's comment regarding checking the view for yourself.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Anybody having an opinon on the following investment ? - I would be grateful

A 2B apartment in The Princess Tower or The Torch. At least I have narrowed it down to these two locations if I am going to diversify myself (If one can talk about diversifying as I will only be invested in the Marina). I would want a marine view as high as possible.


----------



## High Times

Morten,

To get a marina view in the Torch i think you would need to be looking at a very high floor due to the possibilities of what might end up being build on the plots in front of the plot. Also i belive the Torch to be fully sold out now.

I guess that narrows down your options a bit


----------



## Pleth

I have not been very keen on JBR, the look of it, the small balconies and the way the balconies are "closed".
But last week I walked around JBR, and I must say it looks much better in real life! 
The biggest advantage as I see it, is the beach club/beach access, whether it is free or to be paid for. It is absolutely wonderful to have your own beach access, and it looks very impressing.


----------



## dubaiprojects

Well I would not recommend princes or torch tower for investment purpose.
You are better at a 30-40 floors apartment for that purpose like Al seef tower, marina crown range.
Princes tower finally started? it is too late man, i bet they now have completed the selling of enough units to start construction


Anyway renting out higher floors is not always easy so better be carefull.

One other thing these two towers are narrowed and build on a smaller plot, look for project which has wide basement and also retails shops etc.

I also doubt the completion of these two high towers in time and the emergency services like fire plans etc for such high towers.

I have bough a flat of 1 bed at 7th floor of one of the project in the area of princes towers and it went to rent easily, the family who rented can not afford very higher floors not that there is no lift but for other reasons like emergency exit, taking stairs etc, ofcourse this is my own practical experience for long term rental. For short term this is changed and perhaps higher (50+) is better -weigh your options then decide.

cheers

Cheers


----------



## Morten_Denmark

dubaiprojects said:


> Well I would not recommend princes or torch tower for investment purpose.
> You are better at a 30-40 floors apartment for that purpose like Al seef tower, marina crown range.
> Princes tower finally started? it is too late man, i bet they now have completed the selling of enough units to start construction
> 
> 
> Anyway renting out higher floors is not always easy so better be carefull.
> 
> One other thing these two towers are narrowed and build on a smaller plot, look for project which has wide basement and also retails shops etc.
> 
> I also doubt the completion of these two high towers in time and the emergency services like fire plans etc for such high towers.
> 
> I have bough a flat of 1 bed at 7th floor of one of the project in the area of princes towers and it went to rent easily, the family who rented can not afford very higher floors not that there is no lift but for other reasons like emergency exit, taking stairs etc, ofcourse this is my own practical experience for long term rental. For short term this is changed and perhaps higher (50+) is better -weigh your options then decide.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Cheers


Thank you HighTimes and dubaiprojects

Good points - I will continue to weigh cons and pro. Regarding the Torch I could consider a resale I guess. I will take a trip to Dubai soon and spend some days in the Marina. This is really the fun part.

To Pleth - I have 2 units in JBR (already in the rental market) and I do agree with the most posts that these structures can really not compete in apperance with above mentioned projects. But I stayed in one JBR apartment some days to get a feel for JBR and I was convinced that this will be a unik place to live as a resident. 

Kind regards Morten


----------



## Hanna

Damac makes Amman appointment


Damac Properties has appointed the Issa Haddadin and Partners Construction Company as the enabling works contractor for The Business Gate and Business Heights in Amman. The duration of this preliminary work, which commenced late last month, is approximately 120 days and includes site preparation, excavation and shoring works. The two developments are located at the Abdali downtown regeneration project.:cheers:


----------



## dubaiprojects

Hanna you must be a damac agent. To be honest if one does an unbiased study just over the internet google threads about damac, I would say he or she will come to the conclusion that damac is all good in projecting itself and spending lot of money on ads, however the truth is clear from how many projects did they deliver and also the quality of the projects (full of snags for one apartment bldg in marina, there is a thread in skyscrapercity for it). And then it really sounds crazy that in dubai real estate damac offered jaguar cars for people who will buy from them, i mean come on this is so no brainer assessment of their capabilities.


----------



## Hanna

dubaiprojects said:


> Hanna you must be a damac agent. To be honest if one does an unbiased study just over the internet google threads about damac, I would say he or she will come to the conclusion that damac is all good in projecting itself and spending lot of money on ads, however the truth is clear from how many projects did they deliver and also the quality of the projects (full of snags for one apartment bldg in marina, there is a thread in skyscrapercity for it). And then it really sounds crazy that in dubai real estate damac offered jaguar cars for people who will buy from them, i mean come on this is so no brainer assessment of their capabilities.


HI dubaiprojects i don't know how many blogs you have read of mine in the past(maybe none). I think you will find I am not Damac's biggest fan I have written scores of time about there Lies,cheesie glossy adds, there bad build quality and there delays are legend on this site. I take offence at you even thinking I was an agent.I was having a quite dig at them advertizing again after they have been very quite for a few months.Please get your facts right you clown before posting such derogatory remarks about me when you haven't got a clue. :bash:


----------



## dubaiprojects

My goodness such a terrible reaction? You could have just clarified that you are not damac agent, instead you actually took all of my post against you, instead of the first line .

I was thinking of saying sorry but after such an ill mannered reply i guess you deserve it. 


Cold regards


----------



## Hanna

dubaiprojects said:


> My goodness such a terrible reaction? You could have just clarified that you are not damac agent, instead you actually took all of my post against you, instead of the first line .
> 
> I was thinking of saying sorry but after such an ill mannered reply i guess you deserve it.
> 
> 
> Cold regards



Just think before you write and state the true facts then you will not 
recieve such a terrible reaction 'you are still a clown' :bash:


----------



## dubaiprojects

I am honored to be called a clown from you. because it then lets me juggle you.....;-)


----------



## lovedubai

Hanna - People newer to the forum may not have read all your constant, never-ending anti-Damac rantings, but there was no need to be so nasty.


----------



## Hanna

lovedubai said:


> Hanna - People newer to the forum may not have read all your constant, never-ending anti-Damac rantings, but there was no need to be so nasty.


Hi lovedubai
#

Don't you start with you tuppenpence worth,why did he or she come in with a
loaded statement from the get go, all I asked was for a bit a of common scence you moron (now but out and stick to knitting your cardigan) hno:


----------



## ferrari430

^^ v true dubai is tiny as a financial center but the belief is that it is paving the way in becoming the financial center in middle east and hence can become like a singapore (or even a hong kong) maybe within the next 10 years - but possibly some prices are quite high as it stands today and as a result there could be a correction - but the big question is when? - it is difficult to guess - but i personally now think that prices will still be heading north for the next 2/3 years


----------



## ferrari430

*world house prices*



dubaifirst said:


> Central London is 9000 AED/ft, who knows what prices in Dubai are heading for.


Average prime central London is 2300 GBP psf = AED 17000 psf!

and some of the best (super prime) in London go for above 4000 GBP psf = AED 30000 psf!

check out the following article

London has beaten Tokyo, Hong Kong and New York to be crowned the most expensive city in the world, according to the Knight Frank Prime International Residential Index.
Prime, let’s be clear, means the poshest and most upmarket neighborhoods – the kind of neighbourhoods where Russian billionaires shell out eight figure sums for a luxury pad and a bargain is something with just six figures on the price tag. 
The index compared capital values, rents and investment yields in 70 prime international markets and concluded that London will burn a bigger hole in your pocket that any other city on the planet. 
Prime City Markets

According to the report, prime property across the world rose in value by an average of 14 per cent in 2006, compared to around nine per cent for the mainstream market.

But London property, which averaged £2,300 per square foot, was the most expensive, beating Monaco (£2,190 per sq ft) to the top spot, with New York (£1,600 per sq ft) in third.
However, while London was the priciest, Russia, China and India recorded the largest gains. These countries notched up massive annual price growth of over 40 per cent due to burgeoning economic development.
Moscow, indeed, features as the eleventh most expensive city (£770 per sq foot) and Knight Frank tip it to topple London in ten years time. Other cities tipped for success include St Petersburg, Delhi, Mumbai and Beijing. 
Town or Country Markets
Outside of the prime city markets, France and Italy dominated the table for most expensive town or country markets, sharing all of the top ten spots between them.
France's St Jean Cap Ferrat emerged as the most exclusive of these prime markets with a value of £1,896 per sq ft. 
It was followed by locations such as the Costa Smeralda, Sardinia (£1,478 per sq ft), locations favoured by second homeowners or renowned for their sunny climate or winter sport reputation.
Over the next two years, UK commuter regions such as Oxfordshire and Berkshire, polling sixteenth and eighteenth respectively, are forecast to reach double-digit price growth as investors and buyers stretched for affordability move out of the Capital.
In addition, Eastern European countries are predicted to make an impact over the next two to three years - Croatian prices, says the report, have already started to rival parts of France and Spain.
Likewise, the Brazilian market has been tipped for good things, as it has been demonstrating price growth similar to that of Russia, India and China.

http://www.findaproperty.com/displaystory.aspx?edid=09&salerent=0&storyid=20257


----------



## High Times

^^

Interesting no mention of Dubai


----------



## ferrari430

^^ maybe because dubai is not a mature market yet and lot of the high end developments like 'burj dubai tower' hasnt been delivered yet - when it is ranked it will certainly be in the top 15/20


----------



## Dubai_Steve

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> Interesting no mention of Dubai


Dubai is so cheap compared to the others mentioned. Marina prices are 10 times cheaper at only £200 per sq ft compared with £2,300 per sq ft in central London and 3 or 4 times cheaper than Moscow.


----------



## Naz UK

^^ Which is the reason why all this (investment) talk in the last couple of years, i.e. bubble/no bubble, correction, etc etc is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. The (mainly quiet) people who have bought property in Dubai for the long term don't frown every time some expert spouts off about Dubai's real estate future.


----------



## abf

Dubai is coming up with a lot of infrasrtucture and tourism is one on the major source of capital influx - yet apart from tourism what is the UAE offering? Property prices can be linked to petro dollars - does it not make the market very unpredictible?


----------



## rexdmx

*UAE mortgages likely to grow nine-fold in five years *
By Babu Das Augustine, Banking Editor
Published: December 11, 2007, 22:58


Dubai: The UAE's housing mortgage market is projected to grow nine-fold during the next five years to Dh161 billion in 2012, according to a research report by EFG-Hermes, a regional investment bank.

According to central bank statistics, up to the end of the second quarter of 2007, the UAE's financial system had a total of Dh46.3 billion in mortgage assets. 

This includes a large amount of commercial mortgages. Residential mortgages are estimated at about half of that figure, with industry sources suggesting they are about Dh20 billion.

EFG-Hermes estimates current housing mortgages at less than Dh18 billion for 2007. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Going forward, we assume housing purchases of around Dh680 billion over the next five years. If we also assume that 20-40 per cent of properties are mortgaged, and loan-to-value ratios of 70 per cent, this suggests that mortgages disbursed between now and 2012 will be of the order of Dh43 billion, making for a total market of Dh161 billion, implying a compounded annual growth rate (CAGR) of 55 per cent over the next five years," said Raj Madha, an analyst with EFG-Hermes. 

In the short term, most of the growth is expected to be focused on Dubai, but towards the end of the five-year period, Abu Dhabi is expected to contribute significantly to the growth, although perhaps not reaching equality between the two emirates. By 2020, based on the same assumption, the report estimates the mortgage market will grow to Dh457 billion.

Over the last two years the real estate mortgage loan market (commercial and residential combined) has been growing at 92 per cent CAGR. Although growing at a high rate, over the next five years, growth is projected to fall to 55 per cent. Beyond 2020, EFG estimates that the market will mature to standard growth rates.

The housing finance sector has been growing rapidly for the last few years. However, unlike the property market, it is clear that the housing finance market is still massively underpenetrated.


----------



## rexdmx

*Dubai and Doha office rents to increase 20% next year *
Reuters
Published: December 11, 2007, 23:00


Dubai: Office rents in Dubai and Doha are likely to rise about 20 per cent during the next year as demand outpaces supply and international businesses expand in the Gulf, said property services company CB Richard Ellis.

The highest quality offices in Dubai cost as much as Dh500 ($136.20) per square foot, said Nicholas Maclean, managing director for Los Angeles-based CB Richard Ellis in the Middle East.

That could rise to Dh600 per square foot during the next year to 18 months, Maclean said on Tuesday.

After that, prices will probably halve to about Dh300 per square foot in five to six years as more supply comes into the market, Maclean said.

"There's just not enough supply," Maclean said. "It's not good for business, it's not good for the government." 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Demand in the Qatari capital, Doha, is growing as oil and gas companies expand and the government seeks new space, Maclean said.

Prices are lower than in Dubai, but the trends are the same, he said.

Cities in India, Egypt and the Philippines are benefiting from the rising costs as businesses look to them to provide back-office operations, Maclean said.

Office space in Dubai is likely to more than triple 100 million square feet during the next five to six years, from 30 million now, Maclean said.


----------



## Pleth

abf said:


> Dubai is coming up with a lot of infrasrtucture and tourism is one on the major source of capital influx - yet apart from tourism what is the UAE offering?


Industry friendly area and free zones. Dubai is attracting lots of companies from all over the world. Easy to run a businees in Dubai, it is English speaking, no corruption or crime....


----------



## Tractor

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dubai is so cheap compared to the others mentioned. Marina prices are 10 times cheaper at only £200 per sq ft compared with £2,300 per sq ft in central London and 3 or 4 times cheaper than Moscow.


Don't forget those numbers are for 'prime' real estate in some of the most established 'prestige' locations in the world (i.e. have been considered prestigious for decades).

Comparing the Burj Dubai development prices to these would be fairer.

A truer comparison, in my opinion, is comparing the Marina to places like the Cote d'Azur / Miami / Gold Coast / etc..

The advantage Dubai has, of course, is its status as a tax haven.


----------



## glover

^^^"A truer comparison, in my opinion, is comparing the Marina to places like the Cote d'Azur / Miami / Gold Coast / etc.."

imo, this would be an unfair comparison. The marina has Media City, Internet City, etc... as well as JLT. So you can argue that the marina and its immediate neighborhoods are mixed use (residential, business, hotels), which differentiates it from Cote d'Azur / Miami / Gold Coast / etc..


----------



## Tractor

Agree that they are different, but the key thing is whether the majority of people are holiday makers or people living & working in Dubai. I think currently most people use the Marina as a holiday destination ...don't you think?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ I think it will change to be mostly permanent residential when construction settles down.

Many European residents want to live there even if only for 5 years as a tax break.


----------



## glover

the majority of people who live in the marina are residents of dubai, not holiday makers. JBR apartment are very hot for long term lease, as well as the rest of the marina. early in the morning (7-9 am), i can see many men in business suites flagging down taxis (as well as gorgeous looking women in high heals . you can also see kids with their maids waiting for school buses! many people who work in Media/internet cities live in the marina. expect the same when JLT is completed.


----------



## High Times

Naz UK said:


> ^^ Which is the reason why all this (investment) talk in the last couple of years, i.e. bubble/no bubble, correction, etc etc is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. The (mainly quiet) people who have bought property in Dubai for the long term don't frown every time some expert spouts off about Dubai's real estate future.


I agree,

Welcome back Naz, where have you been? hasn't been the same around here without your sarcasm.


----------



## True Blue

^^ Are you being sarcastic? :lol:

The spiraling labour and material costs are now going to stop any possible bubble bursting. The same thing happened in the UK with the introduction of landfill taxation and primary aggregate tax together with increasing fuel costs all pushing up the cost of building. When you reach the point of not being able to build a home for the market value then the value can not go back down. 

All developers will need to launch at higher prices to cover the increases therefore projects already completed or well under way will increase in line.

The problem now lies with developers who have sold off plan and have delayed construction for extended periods of time. They may be caught out by not having sufficient funding to complete the project and remain in profit. The way developers get round this is not to sell off plan. Instead get funding from banks and internally then sell on completion getting the top price of the future market. Could we be seeing the end of off plan sales sometime soon. After all it looks like most people are baulking at paying the 2000aed/ft2 being asked by Damac for Damac Heights.


----------



## mackie1964

Does anybody know anything about the rumoured millions of Chinese construction workers about to start coming to Dubai? Did anybody else hear about this recently? My source is usually reliable!

I am also told that most of the workers that have left were Illegally residing (Mokalefeen he called them)!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Millions of them ?! :nuts: over what time period ?

How many construction workers does Dubai have in total right now ?


----------



## Anjam

mackie1964 said:


> Does anybody know anything about the rumoured millions of Chinese construction workers about to start coming to Dubai? Did anybody else hear about this recently? My source is usually reliable!
> 
> I am also told that most of the workers that have left were Illegally residing (Mokalefeen he called them)!


^^I have heard of "up to 1 million chinese workers" from a source within DCE.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Which developments or institutions in Dubai right now offer the highest gearing for overseas investors. For example in the UK it is possible to get 95% or 100% finance. In Dubai typically it is 70% financed, therefore although the UK is not appreciating anything like Dubai, there is more Return on Investment to be made because of the little or no deposit required.

Does anyone know of anyway to get mortgages in Dubai for non residents at 90% Loan To Value for example ?


----------



## dubaiprojects

Dear All,

I would like to have faith in dubai becoming a hub for the region or perhaps already achieved a lot. But I have the following questions:

1. What does dubai produces as products in the market of its own in engineering and technology? I think none? What are those factors in the manufacturing field that we can compare dubai with other hubs?

2. Real estate is booming like before and there seems no end to it, demand for commercial place is so high that it is offsetting the schedule of housing projects to be delivered on time (in terms of steel etc) and there are many more commercial centers in the pipe line. All this is based on increase in tourists population, yet i like to know that those who bough property in dubai are not all rich enough to live with out work, yet residency visa from buying a property does not allow you to work in dubai? Are we just investors? if yes then who be the tenants? only tourists or high profile managers who are willing to pay 120k per annum for a single bed in dubai just because the is an acute shortage of housing? All of the projects like dubai land, sport city etc will be meaningless of dubai govt does not give residency with the facility to open up your own business. There are talks of retail shops in intnl city on freehold basis but trust me i read one article where you end up paying 20k per year for the charges, else you need to have local partner. Then there is no nationality charm as well as it will not happen? 
So my question is when dubai is matured enough, what will happen in the absence of facilities that are otherwise given to people who immigrated to us, uk, canada bough properties and then stayed for 5 years and then are treated with respect and shares facilities equal to that of locals?
Expats remain sort of modern slaves here and the talk from locals as if you don't like the rules, always can leave uae?

3. I think dubai is good for investors only who are rich and already setup in their home countries and have invested in dubai real estate for rental income or for long term investment such that they can even come down to dubai, live in 1 apartment on the rental income they get from other apartments.

Bottom line is you should not compare dubai with hongkong or singapore just because dubai attracts everything in the world of sports or events. The laws for expats here are pretty much clear, a person who has spend 20 years is equal to that who arrived yesterday and both can be deported for a small violation, no matter how much property or business they have setup.

For a small investor like me am just relying on my couple of apartments that i bought and on the very good rental income that i am getting until the day comes when the original amount is returned to me and from that point onwards its a bonus for me even if the rents go down.

But i get scared when i see people starting to compare dubai with other major hubs in terms of immigrating and living a normal life there for good.


Cheers


----------



## dubaifirst

I agree with some of your comments, what worries me most in Dubai is year 2010 when there are thousands of completed apartments , where are all the rich tenants who are going to pay 100k or 150 k annual rental for our apartments going to come from? We have been saying for a while yeah tourism and businesses and rise in population but who knows what the supply / demand ratio will be in 2010.


----------



## dubaiprojects

dubaifirst said:


> I agree with some of your comments, what worries me most in Dubai is year 2010 when there are thousands of completed apartments , where are all the rich tenants who are going to pay 100k or 150 k annual rental for our apartments going to come from? We have been saying for a while yeah tourism and businesses and rise in population but who knows what the supply / demand ratio will be in 2010.


I do not know which points you agree on and which you do not , but do not worry, by 2010 the demand supply ration will not change much to cause rental to go down, on the contrary it could increase further. Perhaps by 20202 we should see major issues which I have mentioned in my earlier post.

All i am saying is that a guy like me in 36 yrs old with kids is afraid to immigrate to dubai and settle down as the laws are not clear. Perhaps I would go there if i was in my 50s and kids grown up. 

Cheers


----------



## Dubai_Steve

They would not kick you out unless you do anything bad. Don't see the problem.


----------



## FWIW

dubaiprojects said:


> I do not know which points you agree on and which you do not , but do not worry, by 2010 the demand supply ration will not change much to cause rental to go down, on the contrary it could increase further. Perhaps by 20202 we should see major issues which I have mentioned in my earlier post.
> 
> All i am saying is that a guy like me in 36 yrs old with kids is afraid to immigrate to dubai and settle down as the laws are not clear. Perhaps I would go there if i was in my 50s and kids grown up.
> 
> Cheers


So why did you DP invest in Dubai?


----------



## dubaiprojects

Well its not about me doing something wrong, there could be so many other issues as well which some how relates you. Anyway its not about doing something and getting kicked out, its the whole concept of living in a foreign country for so long and yet ur treated equal to that of a person who enters the country recently, this does not happen in the west, not that am comparing west in specific for all issues.

Now why i invested is another story. There are so many factors which compel me to invest in dubai and it was for investment purpose only not to settle down. My decision was correct, today am getting 100k for a singe bed apartment. I was talking in general , yet you two seem to be narrow focused, broaden your horizon guys!!! when discussing such issues which affect so many people from different countries.
For example, I am also worried about thousands of middle class folks who spent their fortune in buying properties in dubai intnl city and now wanting to settle down there or rent it out for atleast 50k per year. What will happen to them when they actually moved in and see how dull and low quality finishing is done in those flats, there are already so many threads on internet which relate to this story, and i myself seen people anxious to come down and live their on their own yet they have to resolve the issue of also working in dubai to make living.


----------



## Morrismarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> They would not kick you out unless you do anything bad. Don't see the problem.


Exactly. I actually like the fact that they can kick you out, encourages people to behave themselves. That way you don't get all the violence, crime and drugs that we get in the rest of the World, especially the UK. It's the only way to stop it - send the offenders home, no messing about. :cheers:


----------



## High Times

dubaiprojects said:


> Dear All,
> 
> I would like to have faith in dubai becoming a hub for the region or perhaps already achieved a lot. But I have the following questions:
> 
> 1. What does dubai produces as products in the market of its own in engineering and technology? I think none? What are those factors in the manufacturing field that we can compare dubai with other hubs?


Q - What does the UK produce now ?
A - F**k all.

Once upon a time the UK, England in particular was the worlds leading manufacturer of everything. Look into history and you will find something called the Industrial Revolution. The UK was, what China is growing into.

The UK is arguably one of the most expensive places on Earth to live.
It has some of the highest property prices in the world.
It has one of the most stable econemies in the world.
It citizens are one of the most taxed in the world.

The UK has not much to offer the world now apart from Tourism, Culture, History, Financial Services.

The UK is considered a Hub because it sits conveniently between US and Europe and we had the sense to build an airport called Heathrow about 50 years ago just when the aviation industry went boom.

I see a lot of similarities with Dubai now and the UK in the 1950's in terms of building, imigration, growth, desire.

Obviously there are many differences too. The weather for example....

My point is if Dubai is setting out to be a business and tourist HUB then it is going about it the right way.


----------



## heatstor

Morris, Steve you guys sure you live in the UK and not in....Pakistan. 

UK is supposed to be a grade A country, top 5 economies in the world. It can't really be that bad. I have never been there but am intrigued by some of the comments made by guys from the UK on these forums.

Cheers.

P.S: I am originally from Pakistan so allowed a joke at its expense.


----------



## dubaiprojects

High Times said:


> Q - What does the UK produce now ?
> A - F**k all.
> 
> Once upon a time the UK, England in particular was the worlds leading manufacturer of everything. Look into history and you will find something called the Industrial Revolution. The UK was, what China is growing into.
> 
> The UK is arguably one of the most expensive places on Earth to live.
> It has some of the highest property prices in the world.
> It has one of the most stable econemies in the world.
> It citizens are one of the most taxed in the world.
> 
> The UK has not much to offer the world now apart from Tourism, Culture, History, Financial Services.
> 
> The UK is considered a Hub because it sits conveniently between US and Europe and we had the sense to build an airport called Heathrow about 50 years ago just when the aviation industry went boom.
> 
> I see a lot of similarities with Dubai now and the UK in the 1950's in terms of building, imigration, growth, desire.
> 
> Obviously there are many differences too. The weather for example....
> 
> My point is if Dubai is setting out to be a business and tourist HUB then it is going about it the right way.


You be surprised to know what UK actually still is producing in the field of medicines, aviation and Consultancy services for top class IT Systems.

If you want cheap , low quality products yes you can get them from china and india 

warm regards


----------



## dubaiprojects

Oh yes I forgot to mention that I never quoted UK as the only one example.

You have a whole list of countries from top to low producing countries like china, india , malaysia, indonesia, singapore, hongkong, uk, france, etc. 
Dubai is no where to producing/manufacturing at the same level yet people are trying to talk about it as it is the Central HUB. 

Regards


----------



## ferrari430

Dubai has a brand factor in the whole of middle east to the extent that no other city has. For that reason only, most businesses small - medium - blue chip companies want to have a presence here.
If we just consider DIFC - within the last 2 years a number of well renowned investment banks have opened branches. Dubai is on its way of becoming at least the financial hub of middle east and that in itself can bring huge success. Remember the financial services sector in the UK is the largest contributor to its GDP


----------



## Morrismarina

heatstor said:


> Morris, Steve you guys sure you live in the UK and not in....Pakistan.
> 
> UK is supposed to be a grade A country, top 5 economies in the world. It can't really be that bad. I have never been there but am intrigued by some of the comments made by guys from the UK on these forums.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> P.S: I am originally from Pakistan so allowed a joke at its expense.


Well yes UK is the 5th largest economy in the World but it's still shite. 

Here's a bit of what is going on:

1. Schools full of drugs.
2. Daily muggings. (Just the other week in my area youths stole an old lady's motorised wheelchair).
3. Publice too scared to walk down the street at night
4. Daily shootings in major cities and teenagers being killed for no reason ie. London and Birmingham and Liverpool.
5. Kids being bullied in school by other kids, often commiting suicide as their only way out.
6. Police afraid to go into inner City areas.
7. Homes being burgled.
8. Cars stolen.
9. Paedophiles everywhere attacking kids
10. Asylum seekers flooding the country with no skills and no comprehension of English, claiming benefits that the rest of us are paying for with high taxes.
11. Property prices so high that even highly paid professionals such as doctors cannot even afford a studio apartment in London.
12. Thousands of people dying in hospital through catching MRSA as hospitals aren't being cleaned properly.
13. Public toilets that are filthy.
14. Petrol at over £1 a litre.
15. Thousands of homes flooded as we have insufficent money/foresight to build flood defences.
16. Highest rate of teenage pregnancy in Europe.
17. Speed cameras everywhere, but no police when you need them.
18. A Prime Minister that nobody has voted for.
19. Banks that are going bust.
20. Gay couples marrying each other (and bringing up adopted children)

And there's loads more........ believe me you're better off in Pakistan.


----------



## mackie1964

Bloody Hell Morris, where do you live? :lol: I am not coming to visit you with my new toy :lol:

Still the best place in the world to live, at least 6 of our friends left to warmer climates 2/3 years later 5 are back and I have a lot of money riding on the last one returning within the next two years from Australia.

I whinge as much as anybody but deep down, there is no other place I would rather live :banana::banana:


----------



## dubaiprojects

Morrismarina, very well said and i find your long reply a bit funny as many of the issues you raised are found in almost all societies.

I have one question for you, can you please clarify your origin, are you an indigenous british? if not what is your origin?

Cheers


----------



## Morrismarina

mackie1964 said:


> Bloody Hell Morris, where do you live? :lol: I am not coming to visit you with my new toy :lol:
> 
> Still the best place in the world to live, at least 6 of our friends left to warmer climates 2/3 years later 5 are back and I have a lot of money riding on the last one returning within the next two years from Australia.
> 
> I whinge as much as anybody but deep down, there is no other place I would rather live :banana::banana:


Mmmmm.......well I suppose Cheshire is an OK kind of place. Went through Alderley Edge once that was really nice, lots of footballers wives doing their shopping in their Porsche Cayennes........... not as good as Dubai though. :lol:


----------



## Morrismarina

dubaiprojects said:


> Morrismarina, very well said and i find your long reply a bit funny as many of the issues you raised are found in almost all societies.
> 
> I have one question for you, can you please clarify your origin, are you an indigenous british? if not what is your origin?
> 
> Cheers


I'm a Black Country lad !!! :cheers:







(indigenous white British).


----------



## dubaiprojects

Pardon me but what is a black country lad? I never meant to ask your skin colour, rather country of your origin, but I think I know what you mean, except I did not get the country part in your reply 

Cheers


----------



## High Times

^^

Look at birmingham on the map in the UK.

That list makes a lot more sence knowing that Morris. I know exactly what you mean.


----------



## FWIW

mackie1964 said:


> Please be extremely careful, I don't think this is completely accurate. I would speak to more people who live there full time, many of them if I was you.


OK thanks for your concern. Do you have any specific reasons why you think Expat schools in Dubai are not excellent? Or should I just canvas every single parent out there before reaching a decision?


----------



## IISinbadII

SunnyS said:


> I think the fear of this scenario comes from what happened with Uganda and Iddi Amin. When he expelled all the Indians from the country and made them leave their homes, businesses, etc at short notice.


Is this possible. Will the Sheikh kick all expats out of Dubai?


----------



## mackie1964

SunnyS said:


> OK thanks for your concern. Do you have any specific reasons why you think Expat schools in Dubai are not excellent? Or should I just canvas every single parent out there before reaching a decision?


There are one or may be two at a push but the kids have to sit an exam (similar to here, may be a bit more difficult due to the popularity). When the time comes, PM me and I will put you in touch with some decent people who live there for some advice. I have done some research and still doing so


----------



## Morrismarina

Great discussion guys but not sure it's appropriate in this thread really, although I think I started it. :lol: We'll have Krazy comming along soon with his baseball bat. Any chance somebody could open up a new thread called say "UK Versus UAE" and we can continue there. (I'm not sure how to do it).


----------



## barry mcbarry

agod said:


> Dear Barry, 14 years, well your just a baby, try 57 years like me, those disastrous tory years, where in fact the best years this country had ever seen, Maggie gave us share ownership, and the right to buy you own house, so much confidence in this country from her leadership everyone wanted to invest here, and if you where in business you boomed. remember "Loads of Money" you would'nt of course, as you had just arrived.
> It is true, not a 100 yards from my home is the front gate of a School, where gangs knife each other, Yellow notice boards, asking for witnesses to incidents, Fatal Assault, Mugging, Robbery with violence, have you not seen them? we dont have Police we have notice boards and cameras.
> 
> may I ask where you came from? I ask out of curiosity, as the country you left seems to be worse than this place, otherwise why come here.
> 
> Alan


Alan

Morris is right, we're gonna get screwed by krazy (again) if we keep this up.

Last word:
I migrated from Australia, not a bad place, good weather, reasonable standard of living, but nothing to compare to london.
all big cities have crime, drugs, dodgy areas. put lots of humans close on top of each other in one place and that's what you get. check new york, LA, paris, rome, prague, moscow tokyo, sydney etc etc. 

but there's an up side.

here's my list of some reasons to live in london:
regents park
hyde park
the british museum
the national theatre
soho
covent garden
stamford bridge
tate gallery
tate modern
oxo tower (saturday lunch, restaurant not brasserie)
south bank
parliament square
charlotte st
claridges (restaurants and bar)
the buses
the cabs
the tube
eurostar
st. pancras
hampstead heath
richmond park
wimbledon common
clapham common
clapham old town
green park
park lane
wembley
wimbledon
charing cross rd book shops
shaftesbury avenue
st christophers place
selfridges (for the wife)
harrods (ditto)
eel brook common
parsons green
the pubs (7000 last count)
timeout magazine every week
natural history museum
royal albert hall
the police
the firemen
the paramedics
community spirit
bedford square
university college
kings college
greenwich on a sunday
the thames
waterloo sunset
kings road
primrose hill
lords
the oval
camden high street
national film theatre
soho square
marylebone high street
the strand
fleet street
chinatown
brick lane
spitalfields market...............etc

come one big fella cheer up:yes:

you could be in stalinist russia:cheers::lol:

i think i might go out and do something in the city, hordes of paedophiles permitting:cheers::yes::rofl::wave:


----------



## mackie1964

I know what you mean now Al, the bloody criminals are starting to come back :lol: Only kidding


----------



## VineLLo

Thank you Imre very much!
On january I'll stay in Dubai to buy a studio in this building...
do you know the new release date of this?
Bye!


----------



## agod

Nice one Mackie... Barry it all fits now, especially your lovely sense of humour, you are obviously a person who likes a bit of culture, while walking in the park, on your way to the Museum, and trying the pubs as you go, you missed out Borough Market for some amazing food, I was on the ships that took the "Ten pound poms" to Oz in the 60's I bet you dont support our Cricket team!! neither do most Englishmen, my wife actually likes old Brett Lee, and sits up in the middle of the night supporting you.
If you live on the other side of the planet, most people would think London as the centre of the world, for all the reasons you give, no problem with that, as an example these lovely Victorian, and Georgian homes we live in, are also extremely cold and draughty, and sink into the London Clay, Huge tree's outside planted over 100 years ago, are over 60ft tall or more, they ruin the foundations, and suck out hundreds of gallons of water a day, they have there own Tree officer, so you cannot chop these buggers down, you have to get permission, it doesn't matter about you or your home, just that bloody tree, its listed, its listed alright, right into my bedroom window.

I was born just by the London Eye, The Lying in Hospital at Waterloo Bridge, I have attended many City Guild functions, and as a student of London History, London Historical events, I was even in the Honour Guard the 1966 Cenotaph remembrance Sunday, representing the Merchant Navy, I had a deep love of this country, and everywhere I went I stuck my chest out and said I was English, and I was welcomed in all corners of the World, by people who wanted to know me.

I have just realised why I feel so let down, is because I feel betrayed at the way my Government, and yours has let this place spiral into disarray, and hated by people, as opposed to loved, and now I dont stick out my chest anymore, I say it in a whisper always followed by "but we are getting out of there"

Alan


----------



## Hanna

agod said:


> Nice one Mackie... Barry it all fits now, especially your lovely sense of humour, you are obviously a person who likes a bit of culture, while walking in the park, on your way to the Museum, and trying the pubs as you go, you missed out Borough Market for some amazing food, I was on the ships that took the "Ten pound poms" to Oz in the 60's I bet you dont support our Cricket team!! neither do most Englishmen, my wife actually likes old Brett Lee, and sits up in the middle of the night supporting you.
> If you live on the other side of the planet, most people would think London as the centre of the world, for all the reasons you give, no problem with that, as an example these lovely Victorian, and Georgian homes we live in, are also extremely cold and draughty, and sink into the London Clay, Huge tree's outside planted over 100 years ago, are over 60ft tall or more, they ruin the foundations, and suck out hundreds of gallons of water a day, they have there own Tree officer, so you cannot chop these buggers down, you have to get permission, it doesn't matter about you or your home, just that bloody tree, its listed, its listed alright, right into my bedroom window.
> 
> I was born just by the London Eye, The Lying in Hospital at Waterloo Bridge, I have attended many City Guild functions, and as a student of London History, London Historical events, I was even in the Honour Guard the 1966 Cenotaph remembrance Sunday, representing the Merchant Navy, I had a deep love of this country, and everywhere I went I stuck my chest out and said I was English, and I was welcomed in all corners of the World, by people who wanted to know me.
> 
> I have just realised why I feel so let down, is because I feel betrayed at the way my Government, and yours has let this place spiral into disarray, and hated by people, as opposed to loved, and now I dont stick out my chest anymore, I say it in a whisper always followed by "but we are getting out of there"
> 
> Alan


Hi Alan 

If Barry Macharry likes it that much then let him stay put, but I hope he remembers this when the shit hit the fan and it will, remember and put the lights out as you leave for Dubai on a permenant basis.:cheers:


----------



## Morrismarina

Believe me once Barry's finished doing the final touches to his Torch apartment after Christmas, he'll be the first person on that plane to leave London. 



:lol:


----------



## True Blue

mackie1964 said:


> Did I just tune to the Conservatives & Scottish National Party Political Broadcasts? :lol:


2 sentences and you have got me sussed. :lol:


----------



## rexdmx

whoa...this last two pages is really...different..


----------



## djamel05

*Deadline looms for Dubai developers*

by Parag Deulgaonkar on Saturday,December 15,2007 

Property developers are scrambling to register with the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), as the deadline for registration of the guarantee account, also known as the escrow account, ends on December 28.


As of December 13, 285 companies had registered with the agency, which estimates the number of developers in Dubai to be 500.

“We expect the number to increase before the Eid holidays. They just need to register with us and the formalities can be completed later,” Mohammed Sultan Thani, director, development and marketing administration, the Dubai Land Department, told Emirates Business. However, those who fail to register will face penalties from January 1, he said.


*Penalties under the Law No 8, which governs the guarantee account, include imprisonment, or payment of a fine not less than Dh100,000, or both for developers without the licence. Those submiting false documents or misstatements to the authorities concerned in order to obtain a licence, or those who knowingly sell units in bogus property developments will also face penalties.*

As earlier reported by Emirates Business, the land department will “name and shame” developers who fail to meet the trust account registration deadline.

*The department will publish full-page adverts in local newspapers that will have a “green” and “red” list of developers on December 28. Those mentioned in the green list will be the ones who have adhered to the escrow account law, while the red list will contain names of developers who have failed to register, Thani added.*


Twenty banks have been approved for operating trust accounts, according to Khawla Mohammed Ali, real estate researcher at the Land Department. To resolves disputes between real estate developers and buyers, the government is planning to set up a judicial committee. “The government is reviewing the matter,” said Emad Eldin Farouq, the Dubai Land Department legal counsel.

Among other laws being considered is one that will regulate the real estate developer. “The Land Department will introduce new regulations, including a law to regulate the developers in the near future,” he said.

“We were dhow-racing earlier, but now we have entered the F1 track. We are correcting and rectifying all the problems to ensure that the end-users benefit,” Sheikh Juma bin Thani Al Maktoum, head of the trust account, the Land Department, said. “We have done our part, now it is now up to the developers and investors to fulfill their duties.”

The Land Department officials urged brokers and investors to approach them if developers did not resolve their issues. “You need to do your homework well. If you have any unresolved issues, you can come to Rera,” Farouq said. Land Department officials advised buyers and investors to get their properties registered with the department and obtain a title deed. “The title deed is the only proof of ownership and guarantees your right to inheritance,” said an official.

To further safeguard buyers’ rights, the account trustee will retain five per cent of the total amount of the guarantee account after the developer obtains the completion certificate for one year after the units are registered in the names of buyers.


“The purpose of this retention is to act as a guarantee that the developer will promptly and effectively rectify defects in the property that are apparent on completion or which may become apparent within the first year following the hand-over,” Sheikh Juma said.

The government will within weeks announce the new Strata Law, which has been recently signed by the Ruler of Dubai. 

The department will also launch a “ranking and evaluation” programme for real estate agents. There are currently 2,811 registered agents in Dubai.

According to the department, the value of transactions has gone up by 74 per cent to Dh113 billion in 2007 from Dh65bn in 2006, while growth in registered real estate units was 36 per cent to 72,000 from 53,000. An official survey on demand and supply in the Dubai real estate sector will be released in April, Khawla said.

In Dubai, there are over 23 designed areas where expatriates can own properties on a leasehold or freehold basis. Any transaction done in other areas will be “null and void”, an official said. Freehold is perpetual, but leasehold is restricted to a term of up to 99 years, said Farouq.

“The visas are regulated under federal law, but the Dubai Government has submitted a proposal to the federal government” on the issue of visas being granted on purchase of property in the UAE, he said.


----------



## was2103

Guys, The school issue does need some research. I have friends with kids at the GCSE age and he is not satisfied with the choices available. Also, it is getting expensive.

One things for sure; your children, wives, property and just about everything is safe here. No yobs, thiefs or druggies around.

I like the content of the thread and I'm a little tempted to rant myself.

I'm an outer Londoner. I left back in 2000 for sunny Holland. and then to Dubai 3 years ago. Bought real estate and the rest is history.

London wore a vale of political correctness back then. but most of the sentiments now being aired freely were alive and well back then. Especially relating to the current propaganda war against Muslims. People just refrained themselves a little more. The place was pretty rotten. Even in business, people were dishonest and predatorial (rouge traders was my favorite program). There is little space for morality. Everyone is in a rush. Football or Sun front page are the only topics for discussion. Anything deeper makes you a nut. Pub culture and lad-ets and yobs is all I remember. Along with violence, theft and every other immorality you can imagine. But I cleaned up my act and stopped all that... haha

Really, there are loads of better places to go in the world, and for a lot less money. The history of England is not really something to be proud of, especially for the English with a subcontinental or Caribbean origin. They can still taste the favors of the UK upon their respective countries. They basically ran out of countries to rob, so now they rob their own.

Dubai is the place to be. Especially for western Muslims and the likes. Don't bother coming over if you believe all the crap that the media is feeding you about Muslims. There are plenty of freedoms here and there is the ability to easily adhere to the values prescribed by Islam, which incidentally are compatible with any morally sound person. Can be frustrating at times due to the immature systems and processes, but no more than having to adhere to complicated and never ending legislation. This place is getting better, although more expensive. I expect things will stabilize and the place will be fantastic. The hundreds of thousands of expats here can't all be wrong.

And no one is getting kicked out. This place is built on foreign investment. Such a move would be instant death to the local economy (which at the moment is real-estate). The locals and regional Arabs only form 25% of the population!


----------



## was2103

agod said:


> Here, Here, Morris, I wish I hadn't seen this post, it just makes me Grumpy!!!
> the school across the road is high in the (Corrupted) League tables, and every night there's a couple of dozen Police, sorry I mean PCSO, which are like the Keystone cops, except they are not cops, they have no power of arrest, and they look daft, they are life's allsorts, and if you blew hard enough they would all fall over, but they are there because the gangs in this school, knife each othe ron a regular basis, so this school that parents want for there children is actually not to good for them.
> I live in South London, and its been awhile since I was able to talk to somone in my own tongue, I know all about this Multi Cultural society thanks, but when everyday life is dogged by just not be able to talk and be understood by people that should, from the local shopkeeper and the local Government Dept, it's hard work being understood, and trying to understand, and bad attitudes from everyone you meet, you are basically a thief and a rogue, and that's where you start in your dealings, from a level of mistrust and you have to prove that you are innocent, and fight tooth and nail all the way, it is always up to you to take it further, with another dept, or another person, and have you noticed, they dont want to give you there names anymore, when I rang my bank and she didn't understand me, when I asked for her name she put the phone down, new trick of getting out of taking the blame, and everyone washes there hands of it, and it all goes around in circles, and you wind up paying the fine or bill or whatever, because the Baliffs are knocking on your door, not because you are a bad person, but because the bank missed the Debit, or some other thing, and the Council now has the right to do this, it seems the council is the law nowadays,(Stalins Russia was free'er) you have no rights, they do it to frighten you, and send many a pensioner to an early grave, and its better for health just to pay, and not fight.
> Even our great Post office and Royal Mail where reconised as the best in the world, they are advertising heavily on the TV, but are cutting 2500 post office's, and the ones that are left they are painting them Green, someone must awarded them D****H**D of the year, for getting customers to use the new Post Office, where they are closing them before you get there, and at Christmas the busiest time of the year.
> I had my Postman for over 20 years now they cut back and make them all redudant, even the postman does not have to know English, as long as he can make out the numbers on the envelope he gets the job, and I get wrongly delivered items everyday, or they get stolen or missing, and generally take them around to the proper addresess on my walks.
> Miserable faces everywhere, we are so taxed, it hurts, and spied on we are not free at all, I am from Jewish Immigrant stock, and I would be more than Happy to go and live in a muslim country, where they still have values, Honesty and Integrity, and a family way of life, The English on here no what I am on about I could add to Morris,s list ten fold, without mentioning the European factor, that's a club we belong to that cost Billions a week to support, and which in return, we get there Laws, and regulations, making running a business here, similar to walking in treacle.
> 
> This is meant to be a happy place, Ahhh
> 
> Alan


Damn agod, Let me introduce you to the Full-stop.

This is one issue I'm unclear of. Dubai and the UAE does not welcome Jews of people of Jewish decent (if it is traceable). I do know of Jewish people traveling in and out on business but only on alternative identity.

Would like to know more about this.


----------



## barry mcbarry

agod said:


> Nice one Mackie... Barry it all fits now, especially your lovely sense of humour, you are obviously a person who likes a bit of culture, while walking in the park, on your way to the Museum, and trying the pubs as you go, you missed out Borough Market for some amazing food, I was on the ships that took the "Ten pound poms" to Oz in the 60's I bet you dont support our Cricket team!! neither do most Englishmen, my wife actually likes old Brett Lee, and sits up in the middle of the night supporting you.
> If you live on the other side of the planet, most people would think London as the centre of the world, for all the reasons you give, no problem with that, as an example these lovely Victorian, and Georgian homes we live in, are also extremely cold and draughty, and sink into the London Clay, Huge tree's outside planted over 100 years ago, are over 60ft tall or more, they ruin the foundations, and suck out hundreds of gallons of water a day, they have there own Tree officer, so you cannot chop these buggers down, you have to get permission, it doesn't matter about you or your home, just that bloody tree, its listed, its listed alright, right into my bedroom window.
> 
> I was born just by the London Eye, The Lying in Hospital at Waterloo Bridge, I have attended many City Guild functions, and as a student of London History, London Historical events, I was even in the Honour Guard the 1966 Cenotaph remembrance Sunday, representing the Merchant Navy, I had a deep love of this country, and everywhere I went I stuck my chest out and said I was English, and I was welcomed in all corners of the World, by people who wanted to know me.
> 
> I have just realised why I feel so let down, is because I feel betrayed at the way my Government, and yours has let this place spiral into disarray, and hated by people, as opposed to loved, and now I dont stick out my chest anymore, I say it in a whisper always followed by "but we are getting out of there"
> 
> Alan


borough market is great, should've been on the list, but i did say etc........
i'm a great anglophile, and living here 14 years hasn't changed that. try and be a little more glass half full big man

but on one point you are absolutely right, and the english nation remains a figure of ridicule and joy to an expat aussie......................... you are a nation of sporting pygmies, and it's been a pleasure watching at this at close quarters over the last 14 years. 

as for cricket specifically..........................well, krazy would ban me for life:cheers:

cheer up:banana:

and morris IS right, my basement torch apartment has just had the christmas tree put up, moving in jan 1, 360 degree views of damp DCE concrete. can't wait.:lol::rofl:


----------



## IISinbadII

was2103 said:


> Guys, The school issue does need some research. I have friends with kids at the GCSE age and he is not satisfied with the choices available. Also, it is getting expensive.
> 
> One things for sure; your children, wives, property and just about everything is safe here. No yobs, thiefs or druggies around.
> 
> I like the content of the thread and I'm a little tempted to rant myself.
> 
> I'm an outer Londoner. I left back in 2000 for sunny Holland. and then to Dubai 3 years ago. Bought real estate and the rest is history.
> 
> London wore a vale of political correctness back then. but most of the sentiments now being aired freely were alive and well back then. Especially relating to the current propaganda war against Muslims. People just refrained themselves a little more. The place was pretty rotten. Even in business, people were dishonest and predatorial (rouge traders was my favorite program). There is little space for morality. Everyone is in a rush. Football or Sun front page are the only topics for discussion. Anything deeper makes you a nut. Pub culture and lad-ets and yobs is all I remember. Along with violence, theft and every other immorality you can imagine. But I cleaned up my act and stopped all that... haha
> 
> Really, there are loads of better places to go in the world, and for a lot less money. The history of England is not really something to be proud of, especially for the English with a subcontinental or Caribbean origin. They can still taste the favors of the UK upon their respective countries. They basically ran out of countries to rob, so now they rob their own.
> 
> Dubai is the place to be. Especially for western Muslims and the likes. Don't bother coming over if you believe all the crap that the media is feeding you about Muslims. There are plenty of freedoms here and there is the ability to easily adhere to the values prescribed by Islam, which incidentally are compatible with any morally sound person. Can be frustrating at times due to the immature systems and processes, but no more than having to adhere to complicated and never ending legislation. This place is getting better, although more expensive. I expect things will stabilize and the place will be fantastic. The hundreds of thousands of expats here can't all be wrong.
> 
> And no one is getting kicked out. This place is built on foreign investment. Such a move would be instant death to the local economy (which at the moment is real-estate). The locals and regional Arabs only form 25% of the population!


How do the local arabs treat you and your family? Any attitude problems?


----------



## coalmine

Guys I have to agree London is a mess.

How about all the roadworks sometimes I think Baghdad has less potholes.

London is in a mess..


----------



## was2103

IISinbadII said:


> How do the local arabs treat you and your family? Any attitude problems?


They are alright. Bit rough around the edges but once you're in, they are alright. Note, that you can live here for years and only encounter locals in government positions. e.g. very little real interaction. They don't live int he same neighborhoods, go to the same schools or work in the same places as most Euro / Yank expats. You certainly encounter them in the Mosques and then they are certainly warm and welcoming.

Now I'll generalize a little. The Lebanese are a little self centered and seem to think that they are better than others, but this is a minority. The Indians are everywhere and generally of a significantly lower competence level. The English are everywhere and we are probably the most politically incorrect segment of society. The rest of the Euros are more civilized from my experience.


----------



## FWIW

Excellent post djamel05 - can't wait to see the Green and Red lists!

Place your bets now - which list do we think Damac will be on?


----------



## rexdmx

was2103 said:


> They are alright. Bit rough around the edges but once you're in, they are alright. Note, that you can live here for years and only encounter locals in government positions. e.g. very little real interaction. They don't live int he same neighborhoods, go to the same schools or work in the same places as most Euro / Yank expats. You certainly encounter them in the Mosques and then they are certainly warm and welcoming.
> 
> Now I'll generalize a little. The Lebanese are a little self centered and seem to think that they are better than others, but this is a minority. The Indians are everywhere and generally of a significantly lower competence level. The English are everywhere and we are probably the most politically incorrect segment of society. The rest of the Euros are more civilized from my experience.


u shouldn't have generalized...:bash:
indians of a significant lower competence level at what?
lebanese are a little self centred?


----------



## High Times

barry mcbarry said:


> the english nation remains a figure of ridicule and joy to an expat aussie......................... you are a nation of sporting pygmies, and it's been a pleasure watching at this at close quarters over the last 14 years.




It had to be said Barry....................


----------



## Naz UK

Has this thread merged with the Life, Oatmeal and general bollox thread?


----------



## AltinD

^^ Naz, in case you missed: there's a mod position oppening. Interested?


----------



## googly

Guys, can we please keep our posts within the scope of this thread? Thanks. 

For all those who think property prices would stablize or decrease in 2008-10, note that Emaar projects are also getting delayed, like other developments. This means supply will continue lagging behind demand and price pressures will continue in the near future. Unless, of course, something drastic happens in Dubai and demand deminishes.


----------



## AltinD

Who had ever thought that a pourposely created investment talk thread, would get Off Topic.


----------



## AltinD

BTW I just signed the new tenancy contract for my flat in town (not freehold) and I did not get any increase at all.


----------



## ferrari430

I will be letting out apartments and an office in 2008. Would like to know from landlords who have let out for an year or two about the letting scene in dubai

1. how easy is it to let out. how long does it take on average to find a tenant

2. how easy/difficult is it to manage properties from outside dubai. Are the letting agents reliable. Are the well renowned agents like better homes better than the less known ones. what are management fees like i.e what percentage of rental

3. Is it better to let out furnished or unfurnished.

4. what are the pitfalls of letting out in dubai 

Thanks


----------



## Naz UK

AltinD said:


> ^^ Naz, in case you missed: there's a mod position oppening. Interested?


I swear too much and am extremely biased towards people with above average intelligence and those who can construct sentences. So I'm not a suitable candidate.


----------



## was2103

rexdmx said:


> u shouldn't have generalized...:bash:
> indians of a significant lower competence level at what?
> lebanese are a little self centred?


Ok, I agree, generalization is always problematic.

Just to clarify, I'm not racist. I hate everyone equally.


----------



## coalmine

Hi Guys would like to get your advice on the current price for selling a 1 bed apartment
572 square feet in Marina Diamond 2, 15th floor, with partial marina view.

Also what is the state of the resale market for the Diamond buildings now are they selling well??

Who are the best selling agents to use for a quick sale?

Thanks in advance for any help and advice.


----------



## rexdmx

was2103 said:


> Ok, I agree, generalization is always problematic.
> 
> Just to clarify, I'm not racist. I hate everyone equally.


:hilarious:


----------



## Pleth

djamel05 said:


> by Parag Deulgaonkar on Saturday,December
> 
> *The department will publish full-page adverts in local newspapers that will have a “green” and “red” list of developers on December 28. Those mentioned in the green list will be the ones who have adhered to the escrow account law, while the red list will contain names of developers who have failed to register, Thani added.*
> 
> The department will also launch a “ranking and evaluation” programme for real estate agents. There are currently 2,811 registered agents in Dubai.


I hope somebody will see this advert in local newspapers when published by the end of this month and scan it to this thread. Please?


----------



## Imre

coalmine said:


> Hi Guys would like to get your advice on the current price for selling a 1 bed apartment
> 572 square feet in Marina Diamond 2, 15th floor, with partial marina view.
> 
> Also what is the state of the resale market for the Diamond buildings now are they selling well??
> 
> Who are the best selling agents to use for a quick sale?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help and advice.


I think 850-900 K but I saw for 950-1M as well.

rent is very easy 85-95K/year (fully furnished) but I dont know the resell market.

Better if you send the details to more agencies and also recommend the expatriates.com , that is free.


----------



## Essa

Guys is 650 sq ft too small to be a one bedroom? thx


----------



## coalmine

Imre said:


> I think 850-900 K but I saw for 950-1M as well.
> 
> rent is very easy 85-95K/year (fully furnished) but I dont know the resell market.
> 
> Better if you send the details to more agencies and also recommend the expatriates.com , that is free.


Imre thank you for your reply you never let us down with your usefull information.

IMRE for forumer of the year 2007.

Does anyone else know how to value this apartment? as I am looking for a quick sale.


----------



## Imre

thanks,

I saw in th Gulfnews today , for 900K , only 1 advert.(Phoenix Properties)

another side , which is 589 sqft , for 1.1m , that is too expensive.


----------



## Imre

Essa said:


> Guys is 650 sq ft too small to be a one bedroom? thx


yes, that is small size ,some towers that size is a studio , but I saw smaller , Manchester Tower has apr 530-550 sqft, Marina Diamond 2 has 572, 589,660 etc...

Size is small but very easy to rent out.


----------



## coalmine

Imre said:


> thanks,
> 
> I saw in th Gulfnews today , for 900K , only 1 advert.(Phoenix Properties)
> 
> another side , which is 589 sqft , for 1.1m , that is too expensive.


Thanks again Imre, for me you are forumer of the year 2008
unlike some always willing to give advice.


----------



## Monument

Essa said:


> Guys is 650 sq ft too small to be a one bedroom? thx


I have a 650sq ft in London which is a 2 bedroom! So no - 650sq ft is an OK size one bed.


----------



## Imre

Monument said:


> I have a 650sq ft in London which is a 2 bedroom! So no - 650sq ft is an OK size one bed.


maybe in Hong Kong , 650 sqft is 3 or 4 bedroom


----------



## DXBGO

Morrismarina said:


> Well yes UK is the 5th largest economy in the World but it's still shite.
> 
> Here's a bit of what is going on:
> 
> 1. Schools full of drugs.
> 2. Daily muggings. (Just the other week in my area youths stole an old lady's motorised wheelchair).
> 3. Publice too scared to walk down the street at night
> 4. Daily shootings in major cities and teenagers being killed for no reason ie. London and Birmingham and Liverpool.
> 5. Kids being bullied in school by other kids, often commiting suicide as their only way out.
> 6. Police afraid to go into inner City areas.
> 7. Homes being burgled.
> 8. Cars stolen.
> 9. Paedophiles everywhere attacking kids
> 10. Asylum seekers flooding the country with no skills and no comprehension of English, claiming benefits that the rest of us are paying for with high taxes.
> 11. Property prices so high that even highly paid professionals such as doctors cannot even afford a studio apartment in London.
> 12. Thousands of people dying in hospital through catching MRSA as hospitals aren't being cleaned properly.
> 13. Public toilets that are filthy.
> 14. Petrol at over £1 a litre.
> 15. Thousands of homes flooded as we have insufficent money/foresight to build flood defences.
> 16. Highest rate of teenage pregnancy in Europe.
> 17. Speed cameras everywhere, but no police when you need them.
> 18. A Prime Minister that nobody has voted for.
> 19. Banks that are going bust.
> 20. Gay couples marrying each other (and bringing up adopted children)
> 
> And there's loads more........ believe me you're better off in Pakistan.


i would agree morrismariana. everything he has said about uk is true. this is the exact situation in uk


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Apart from point 14. My petrol costs 99.9p per litre


----------



## DXBGO

True Blue said:


> Don't forget that the UK economy is underpinned by it's oil revenues (Kindly donated by Scotland).
> 
> Dubai has a masterplan which is based on survival once the oil runs out. I wonder if we are that clever in the UK or are we still going to keep giving it all away to pay for sky subscriptions for the out of work and free homes for the single mothers of our nation or the golden handshakes for the foreign refugees without anything to offer in return.


i agree also uk gov has set up a department which pays illegal immigrants to go back to their own country. air ticket +money to pay for setting up business intheir own country is funded by uk.


----------



## Morrismarina

DXBGO said:


> i agree also uk gov has set up a department which pays illegal immigrants to go back to their own country. air ticket +money to pay for setting up business intheir own country is funded by uk.



Haven't heard of this one but wouldn't surprise me at all. Come to the UK and if you're not entitled to be here don't worry we'll give you money to set up your own business back home. We're the laughing stock of the World - the sooner I get out the better.

BTW here's something I forgot to add to my list:

21. We no longer have a mass volume car manufacturer, now that we've let Rover go to the wall. (Just one more thing this shoddy Labour Government has screwed up).

And.......my next door neighbour put up some Christmas lights last weekend going across both our semi-detached houses. Got up this morning and my half have been ripped down and smashed on the floor. They won't even leave your bloody Xmas lights alone now - and I actually live in a comparatively nice part of town. The yob culture is everywhere. :bash:


----------



## barry mcbarry

Morrismarina said:


> Haven't heard of this one but wouldn't surprise me at all. Come to the UK and if you're not entitled to be here don't worry we'll give you money to set up your own business back home. We're the laughing stock of the World - the sooner I get out the better.
> 
> BTW here's something I forgot to add to my list:
> 
> 21. We no longer have a mass volume car manufacturer, now that we've let Rover go to the wall. (Just one more thing this shoddy Labour Government has screwed up).
> 
> And.......my next door neighbour put up some Christmas lights last weekend going across both our semi-detached houses. Got up this morning and my half have been ripped down and smashed on the floor. They won't even leave your bloody Xmas lights alone now - and I actually live in a comparatively nice part of town. The yob culture is everywhere. :bash:


yeah, but you have a magnificent cricket team:lol::rofl::hahaha:

ps how much per square foot for a 2 bed marina view in marina heights, if i was thinking of INVESTING in this PROPERTY?


----------



## Morrismarina

and Football team. :rofl:


----------



## mackie1964

barry mcbarry said:


> ps how much per square foot for a 2 bed marina view in marina heights, if i was thinking of INVESTING in this PROPERTY?



AED 600/sqft I think

Find more there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAc0Vcv5Gs4


----------



## foxy

Why the UK is rather good:

1: Great TV. Now available on analog & digital (including Freeview and internet).
2: Most entertaining football league.
3: Tollerant society (a safe place for a gay muslim to live)
4: Sensible laws
5: 2nd highest recipient of the Nobel prize.
6: Inventors of soccer, rugby, golf, cricket and snooker.
7: England was last successfully invaded almost 1000 years ago (is this a record)
8: Last internal conflict several hundred years ago
9: London: the home of Science, Natural History and the British Museums. amongst others.
10: Recent PISA report on Science, Maths and Reading across the OECD has the UK above average. Consistantly higher than Italy, Spain & USA. Better on average than France. This is our peer group alongside Germany.
11: The most authoratative list of best world universities is compiled by a university in China. After the USA the UK does best.
12: Formula 1 racing has a huge British technological content and is a £5billion industry
13: Despite not having the cheapest workforce, the UK is a substantial manufacturer of cars.
14: Inspite of the recent problems British banks are amongsts the most successfull. Expect RBS to join HSBC in the £10 billion club next year and hence joining a world elite across all industries.
15: Literature: Shakespeare to Dahl. Quantity and quality.
16: Arts: Beetles to Vanessa Mae. Tom Jones to Bronski beat.
17: The English language - the world's language
18: English beer - different, lots of variety and very tasty.
19: Iconic nation. ask the question "what is different about the UK". Answers would be easy and diverse. eg. black london cabs, double decker red buses, red phone boxes, James Bond, Her Majesty, Harry Potter, Manchester Utd (uggh!), Oxford, Cambridge, Big Ben... could go on.. and on
20: Still a land of inventors and designers: my DAB radio, my internet radio and my media center PC all designed in the UK.
21: Room for improvement. Hell yes. Am I going anywhere else NoWay!


----------



## HarryKane

foxy said:


> Why the UK is rather good:
> 1: Great TV.


Isn't the UK the only country where you actually have to pay a tax just to own and watch TV, even if its a black and white one?


----------



## Monument

HarryKane said:


> Isn't the UK the only country where you actually have to pay a tax just to own and watch TV, even if its a black and white one?


True - but it gets you the BBC not the usual garbage we get in other countries.


----------



## Sheltie

Dubai_Steve said:


> Apart from point 14. My petrol costs 99.9p per litre


You are lucky we pay £1.19 per litre, the sooner we move to Dubai the better.


----------



## FWIW

Morrismarina said:


> 21. We no longer have a mass volume car manufacturer, now that we've let Rover go to the wall. (Just one more thing this shoddy Labour Government has screwed up).


Yes, but we do all now own Northern Rock!!! In a way we have all become Bankers!!!

One rule for manufacturers, one rule for city boys...:bash:

We really should start a seperate thread for UK issues...like here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=17205997

:lol:


----------



## AltinD

HarryKane said:


> Isn't the UK the only country where you actually have to pay a tax just to own and watch TV, even if its a black and white one?


In Italy too.


----------



## jeetha

Let’s change the subject.

I’ve opened an International account with HSBC UAE, without going to Dubai.


----------



## barry mcbarry

mackie1964 said:


> AED 600/sqft I think
> 
> Find more there
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAc0Vcv5Gs4


600? interesting..........

thanks for the youtube clip. i'm an anglophile, not an inbred moronophile, but nice tune.
:lol:

where can i find information on a building called the torch?:cheer:


----------



## barry mcbarry

jeetha said:


> Let’s change the subject.
> 
> I’ve opened an International account with HSBC UAE, without going to Dubai.


that's great news, well done.kay:


----------



## mackie1964

barry mcbarry said:


> 600? interesting..........
> 
> thanks for the youtube clip. i'm an anglophile, not an inbred moronophile, but nice tune.
> :lol:
> 
> where can i find information on a building called the torch?:cheer:



I knew you would like this tune, it was meant for the other deserters but talking about inbred morons, it fits you really well :lol:

The Torch is the little 84 floor building right behind the three 140 floors skyscrapers at the top of the Marina


----------



## Bon Vivant

Hey Guys could some one let me know which are the most important developers / investors in the EMIRATES please? (and their websites)


----------



## DXBGO

Morrismarina said:


> Haven't heard of this one but wouldn't surprise me at all. Come to the UK and if you're not entitled to be here don't worry we'll give you money to set up your own business back home. We're the laughing stock of the World - the sooner I get out the better.
> 
> BTW here's something I forgot to add to my list:
> 
> 21. We no longer have a mass volume car manufacturer, now that we've let Rover go to the wall. (Just one more thing this shoddy Labour Government has screwed up).
> 
> And.......my next door neighbour put up some Christmas lights last weekend going across both our semi-detached houses. Got up this morning and my half have been ripped down and smashed on the floor. They won't even leave your bloody Xmas lights alone now - and I actually live in a comparatively nice part of town. The yob culture is everywhere. :bash:


xmas lights is nothing. we have had lead flashing stolen from our surgery roof few weeks back.and off course jaguar aND FORD ARE SELLING THEIR PLANT TO TATAS IN INDIA.i cant wait to move to dubai in next 3-4 years.


----------



## barry mcbarry

DXBGO said:


> xmas lights is nothing. we have had lead flashing stolen from our surgery roof few weeks back.and off course jaguar aND FORD ARE SELLING THEIR PLANT TO TATAS IN INDIA.i cant wait to move to dubai in next 3-4 years.


thats nothing, i had my house stolen last night, while i was in it.hno:


----------



## barry mcbarry

Bon Vivant said:


> Hey Guys could some one let me know which are the most important developers / investors in the EMIRATES please? (and their websites)


dubai select are amazing and brilliant. do you want to buy a 2 bed flat for 2500 AED/ sq foot off plan by the way?:cheers:


----------



## jeetha

barry mcbarry said:


> thats nothing, i had my house stolen last night, while i was in it.hno:


:hilarious:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## AltinD

barry mcbarry said:


> thats nothing, i had my house stolen last night, while i was in it.hno:


Do you live in a trailer house?


----------



## Bon Vivant

*Not exactly*



barry mcbarry said:


> dubai select are amazing and brilliant. do you want to buy a 2 bed flat for 2500 AED/ sq foot off plan by the way?:cheers:



^^ at least not by now! 

I`m a Real Estate Attorney in Mexico, and i`m trying to get investors to develop projects in Mèxico! ( that`s why my question )

:cheers:


----------



## Monument

Bon Vivant said:


> ^^ at least not by now!
> 
> I`m a Real Estate Attorney in Mexico, and i`m trying to get investors to develop projects in Mèxico! ( that`s why my question )
> 
> :cheers:


Hopeless place from that point of view - Mexico - too neurotic about foreigners buying land near the coast with consequent restrictive freehold laws - probably because the Americans have already taken so much of their land.


----------



## rexdmx

*Property delays could continue *
By Shakir Husain, Staff Reporter
Published: December 19, 2007, 23:54


Dubai: Delays taking place in the completion of residential property projects in Dubai this year will continue in 2008, while a price correction is most likely in 2009 when supply will exceed demand, according to a new market report.

There will be increased supply of property next year but it will be absorbed by pent-up demand between 2005 and 2007.

"We believe that the delay in property handovers seen in 2007 will likely continue over the next 12 to 18 months," investment bank EFG Hermes said in its UAE outlook report for 2008.

Real estate prices are forecast to rise by five to 10 per cent next year, and likely to peak in the second half of the year as a rising supply of property units becomes available.

The gap in supply this year is about 20,000 residential units worth Dh34 billion, housing finance firm Tamweel said in October. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Tamweel is expecting about 50,000 units of supply against a demand of 54,000 units next year in Dubai, taking the aggregate shortage to 24,000 units.

EFG expects 25,000 units to be delivered during this year, 64,000 in 2008 and 68,000 in 2009.

"We expect prices will begin declining in 2009 once supply peaks, with a cumulative decline of 15 per cent to 20 per cent between 2009 and 2011," EFG said.

Prices for both villas and apartments rose 18.7 per cent in the first 11 months of 2007, which was above expectations.

Currency boost

The weakening of the dirham due to its peg with the US dollar and improved local real estate regulations are seen as boosting international demand for UAE property.

However, there is a fear that the current lack of confidence in most developed countries could eventually spread to emerging markets in the region.

"This adds an element of uncertainty to our demand forecast, since it could potentially cause property prices to decline sooner than expected," the report noted.

Shortage in the supply of commercial property is forcing companies to rent temporary spaces in villas or to set up smaller offices. Huge demand for offices has pushed rents up by 40 per cent high in the city.

"Dubai is one of the most expensive business cities globally, with an average rent of $98 per square foot, almost as high as New York. This compares to $106 in Hong Kong, $127 in Paris, and $189 in Mumbai or $68 in Abu Dhabi," EFG noted.

The report estimates commercial occupancy rates of around 99 per cent in both old and newly-developed areas of Dubai.

But as the city grows in importance as the region's business hub, the outlook for commercial property is seen as bright.

"In contrast to North America and Western Europe, whose markets for commercial property appear fragile, we see the popularity of Dubai, the financial and business hub of the Middle East, continuing to grow," the report said.


----------



## abf

Rera/Escrow
28 Dec being the last day for Developer's registrations , does any one know how to find out whether particular developers have registered with the autorities - if not what is Rera doing about it?


----------



## Morrismarina

I thought the Gulf News was going to publish the list of approved developers today (20th December). Anybody seen it yet ??


----------



## Monument

There is a small article in Business Week this past week that states that BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) will be overtaken by MENA (Middle East and North Africa) as the favorite markets to invest in, in terms of upside - in 2008. 

I suspect they simply mean ME, as opposed to MENA, but MENA sounds better. The "NA" markets are surrounded by very high risk!


----------



## AltinD

^^ MENA = Middle East North Africa


----------



## bizzybonita

Emaar Properties wins ‘Property Company of the Year’ award for second time


2007 brings global and regional laurels for Emaar
Emaar Properties has won the ‘Property Company of the Year’ for the second time in a row at the Arabian Business Achievement Awards. The award recognises the overall performance of the company including product quality, excellence in service and promising growth strategies. 

Mr Ahmad Al Matrooshi, Managing Director – UAE, Emaar Properties, received the prestigious award from His Excellency Engr Sultan Bin Saeed Al Mansoori, UAE Minister of Development for the Government Sector, at the Arabian Business Achievement Awards.

Earlier this year, Emaar had won the Dubai Quality Award for its commitment to quality and service excellence, and clinched two top laurels at the 9th annual RealComm Digie Awards (Commercial Real Estate Digital Innovation Awards). Emaar Properties won the RealComm Digie Award for Best Use of Automation – Facilities Management, and Burj Dubai, the iconic tower developed by Emaar, was adjudged Most Digital Real Estate – Extreme Multifamily Residential. Signalling its international reach, Emaar ranked in the Financial Times Global 500 list of the world’s leading companies


R


----------



## bizzybonita

TDIM 08 to have strong Abu Dhabi presence












TDIM (Tourism Development Projects & Investment Market), a new show focusing on the tourism projects market and organized by Reed Exhibitions Middle East, will take place January 20 to 22, 2008 at the Dubai International Exhibition & Convention Centre. 

Ara Fernezian, Show Manager, Reed Exhibitions Middle East for TDIM 08, said, “We have envisioned TDIM 08 as a platform for tourism players to meet, discuss, explore and enter into new partnerships. The show has been designed to facilitate investment flows, knowledge-sharing and networking for all key stakeholders in the tourism market”. 

With Abu Dhabi attracting tourism project investments in excess of Dh305 billion, major real estate and tourism players from the UAE capital will showcase their projects and plans at TDIM 08. Leading companies based in Abu Dhabi including Al Ain Wildlife Park & Resort, Sorouh, Aldar, Tamouh and Al Qudra Real Estate will exhibit their projects at TDIM 08.

R


----------



## bizzybonita

Leading real estate developers to participate at IREIS 2008











The 4th edition of Abu Dhabi Real Estate and Investment Show (IREIS 2008) will be held at the Abu Dhabi National Exhibition Centre from January 30 to February 2, 2008 under the patronage of HE Dr. Sheikh Sultan Bin Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, Member of the Abu Dhabi Executive Council. 

Antoine Georges, Director, Dome, said, “Over the past editions, IREIS has managed to build itself as one of the leading and most successful property shows in Abu Dhabi and the UAE. Our success, growth and reputation have encouraged more property developers to take part at this year’s exhibition”.

IREIS 2008 will occupy an exhibit space of 10,000 square meters, a 45% increase over 2007’s edition. More than 95% of the space at the Abu Dhabi show has been contracted to 70 local and regional real estate developers

R


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai property prices unlikely to stabilize in next few years



The real estate prices in Dubai are unlikely to stabilize during the next five years, in case the rent-cap is not lifted, and if the government does not take initiative to implement measures that could contribute in improving the supply market, say experts.

Property price trends in DubaiA study of the Dubai real estate sector by the Dubai Chamber of Commerce and Industry (DCCI) revealed that demand and supply of real estate will reach equilibrium only in 2023, provided, the government does not interfere or bring in new policies.

The Director of DCCI's Data Management and Business Research, Dr. Belaid Rettab, said "Equillibrium is when demand meets supply, and the prices remain stable."



Imposing rent cap, apart from delaying the process of stabilizing the market, will not be able to address price hikes too. Being supporters of liberal business, we do not prefer to have rent caps. The simplest solution to prevent price hikes is to bring in more supply to the market. The government, apart from supporting development of mortgage sectors, will also have to arrange finance facilities to developers so that they could build more, Rettab said.

The DCCI study revealed that the property prices have increased by a 10 percent cumulative annual growth rate in the medium term. The long term increase was 4 percent, which translates itself into an average price hike of seven percent, equivalent to the current rent cap imposed by Dubai government.

The DCCI study revealed that the government policies will positively influence income, population, cost, financing availability, tastes and preferences of buyers and speculation of future prices that could contribute to increase in demand.

The increase in supply will depend on the financing, production inputs cost, construction technology and expectation of future demand.


R


----------



## Imre

*Rising costs set to hurt UAE realty *



Abu Dhabi: The increasing cost of building materials may have serious implications for the UAE real estate sector, officials and experts say.

Many perceive the rising costs, driven in part by the declining dollar, to be a global phenomenon that is complicated by growing domestic demand. 

"The fact is that in the UAE there is a combination of global and domestic factors affecting the building material market," says Khalfan Al Kaabi, chairman of the construction committee at the Abu Dhabi Chamber of Commerce and Industry (ADCCI).

"The increasing demand related to limited supply can be attributed for the increase, while increasing fuels and energy prices - as well as freight costs owing to additional insurance fees on sea freight introduced recently - come as external factors," he said. 


Over the past six months cement prices have risen by at least 40 per cent, while steel prices have increased by 25 per cent, according to Mohammad Saeed Hussain, a manager at Al Mansouri Contracting in Abu Dhabi.

There have been complaints about the degree of monopoly in the local steel and cement markets, but the allegation is rejected by the ADCCI, which maintains that these commodities are mostly imported.

"There is always the possibility to utilise imported cement, from China for instance, but that is associated with many technical difficulties. The locally produced cement is by far better to use," Hussain said.

"This is definitely a global phenomenon which is related to developments in other countries, such as China and India, although the increasing domestic demand adds to the problem in the UAE," says Blair Hagkull, managing director of Jones Lang Lasalle, a real estate investments adviser.

Hagkull said that rising costs of building materials can have a positive impact on companies, which will now have an incentive to employ the latest and efficient technologies in construction as a means to compensate for the higher costs they are facing. 

Compromise in quality 

However, a recent report by ADCCI warned that the rising cost of building materials can affect the quality of developments, as contractors can be tempted to compensate by saving on the quantities used.

"This is happening today more than anytime before," Hussain said. "The higher cost of construction will surely have a negative outcome, whether it is higher prices for some developments or lower quality for others."

Al Kaabi says there is no justification for this. "Even if a contractor has signed an agreement prior to the increase in prices, there is usually a special escalation clause."

He says that the FIDIC (International Federation of Consulting Engineers) standards, expected to be applied in Abu Dhabi soon, will allow for compensation in some cases.

The recent trend by contractors to stockpile building material inventories, out of fear from the gloomy prospects, has added to the woes. 

Such increases in cost will have a multiplier effect on the overall inflation rate with the increased cost of housing. The profits of contractors and developers will be affected, especially with the accompanying rise in the construction labour cost, according to the ADCCI report.

"Some companies will incur heavy losses that can affect their ability to repay bank debts, as contractors' profit margins can diminish by 15 to 20 per cent," the report says. 

The other negative factors cited by the report include the trade balance, the attractiveness of investment in the sector for foreigners and the increasing burden on the budget.

"Nevertheless, it is typical that the prices of commodities go up in a growing market, and building materials are no exception," Al Kaabi says.

*In numbers

40% rise in cement prices in the UAE over the past six months. 
25% increase in steel prices in the UAE over the past six months. 
15-20% fall likely in profit margins of contractors owing to rise in costs.*

(Gulfnews)


----------



## Tractor

... and that's ignoring the rises in cost of labour, etc..

No wonder people are selling off-plan at 2000-2500/sq ft now!


----------



## Morrismarina

What sort of risk is there then that some developments may become unprofitable for developers and they may not be completed ?? Those price increase are really steep and who knows what more may be comming in the next few years. Is this something we should worry about ??


----------



## AITU

As always, stick with the big developers that can fund these projects / offset any losses...... I agree it is a big risk for smaller developers who may have no where to turn.

Damac is another interesting one.....they've completed say 3 projects out of about 20? They have launched all the others at themarket price over the last 3 or 4 years and they probably cannot build now for the sales price. Its no wonder they continue to delay starting the build on their projects - they will quite happily give unhappy investors their money back so that they can try and resell the property at todays market rate.


----------



## Hanna

AITU said:


> As always, stick with the big developers that can fund these projects / offset any losses...... I agree it is a big risk for smaller developers who may have no where to turn.
> 
> Damac is another interesting one.....they've completed say 3 projects out of about 20? They have launched all the others at themarket price over the last 3 or 4 years and they probably cannot build now for the sales price. Its no wonder they continue to delay starting the build on their projects - they will quite happily give unhappy investors their money back so that they can try and resell the property at todays market rate.


Hi 


Thats what I was thinking over a year ago when the offered me my money
back no problem.It was if they were desperate to offload me and resell at a higher price.Needless to say I told them thanks but no thanks :cheers:


----------



## High Times

rexdmx said:


> probably but the truth remains that if the landlords are allowed to increase the rents unchecked it would produce more problems.
> the inflation is brought about to some extent by the increase in the rental rate.



Rent is like anything else in a capitalist market. It will find it's own price and nominal value.

If landlords increased rent by 50% year on year it wouldn't take long before there were so many empty units that rents would need to reduce again.

If high rents are affordable then so be it. If they are too high then people wont pay it.

This whole rent cap thing is a short term measure to provide false stability to a market that was spiraling out of controll.

A very blunt instrument being used to slow down inflation. A better solution in my opinion would be to expand the mortgage market in the UAE to increase the home owner/tennant ratio. If it were made easier for people to buy usung mortgages then less people would be reliant on renting. This problem is made worse by Sharia lending principals to some degree.

ABF your right, you posted as i was posting.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ i concur with your assessment and conventional economics would agree with you on some level but it is quite important to understand the risks now of allowing market forces to determine the rental rates (which normally would be the case)
people just can't afford it and the market prices are exaggerated..
when you said "if the rates are high people wont pay it" the problem with that is there simply is no proper alternatives for normal people to live in

it would also take a while for the uae to develop a proper viable mortgage system like the ones in your countries for low wage earners...


----------



## High Times

^^
Yes your right about the low earner issue.

My solution would be to instigate some kind of government housing project for UAE nationals or even non UAE low wage ex pats. A kind of shared ownership scheme where the government build housing for low wage earners and rent it to them on the cheap and offer them the opportunity to buy fractions of the property over time eventualy owning it 100%.


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> There is a cluase in the law that allows an owner to refuse to renew the contract if the owner wants/needs to occupy the property himself.
> 
> I guess if an owner/landlord really wanted to change tennants for a higher rent he can.
> 
> As i have said before, where there's a law there's a loophole.


Unless you actually physically want to live in that unit, I would not recommend to use that excuse as a "loophole".


----------



## Morten_Denmark

*Real Estate Stats*

Gents and ladies - take a look at Burj Dubai - perhaps an armani apartment would be interesting :nuts:


http://www.alineah.com/market_analysis.asp


----------



## Imre

smussuw said:


> ^^ and landlords who raised the rent by 7% last year cannot raise the rent this year.



just an example, I was living in a villa for 6 months, behind the Mazaya center , opposite to the Emarat Post office

2005-2006 95.000 aed/year
2006-2007 200.000 aed/year ,me and some people left the villa
2007-2008 350.000 aed/year , everybody left the villa

my friend in the Springs , 100K, 125K, 140K

where is the 7 % ?


----------



## Imre

Morten_Denmark said:


> Gents and ladies - take a look at Burj Dubai - perhaps an armani apartment would be interesting :nuts:
> 
> 
> http://www.alineah.com/market_analysis.asp


City of Arabia 1,343.18


----------



## rexdmx

Imre said:


> just an example, I was living in a villa for 6 months, behind the Mazaya center , opposite to the Emarat Post office
> 
> 2005-2006 95.000 aed/year
> 2006-2007 200.000 aed/year ,me and some people left the villa
> 2007-2008 350.000 aed/year , *everybody* left the villa
> 
> my friend in the Springs , 100K, 125K, 140K
> 
> where is the 7 % ?


:lol: that is why i said theoretically!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Imre said:


> City of Arabia 1,343.18


Amazing how some plastic dinosaurs can drive up the price.


----------



## DubaiMarina

If the rent cap remain 5% I am interested to invest somewhere else than Dubai. I have a few offices in Business Bay and an apartment in Dubai Marina. I think that´s enough for me if I can rise rents only 5% per year. I will get better profits from stock exchange in the future.


----------



## IISinbadII

DubaiMarina said:


> If the rent cap remain 5% I am interested to invest somewhere else than Dubai. I have a few offices in Business Bay and an apartment in Dubai Marina. I think that´s enough for me if I can rise rents only 5% per year. I will get better profits from stock exchange in the future.


^^ You are allowed to raise rent 5% for the 3rd year (not every year).


----------



## DubaiMarina

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ You are allowed to raise rent 5% for the 3rd year (not every year).




It’s even worse than I thought. hno:


----------



## Imre

then try the short term rent, you can increase every month or day


----------



## Morten_Denmark

DubaiMarina said:


> It’s even worse than I thought. hno:


I certainly do follow you but you have to take into account that your properties could increase very much in value.

For me the problem is to present the buisness case to the bank and be able to finance new properties.


----------



## DubaiMarina

Morten_Denmark said:


> I certainly do follow you but you have to take into account that your properties could increase very much in value.


That´s why I invested.  In Scandinavia everything is already so expensive and that´s why I am not interested to invest there. Dubai is still better place to invest but how long time?


----------



## DubaiMarina

Imre said:


> then try the short term rent, you can increase every month or day



Short term offices. :lol:


----------



## Morrismarina

DubaiMarina said:


> Short term offices. :lol:


Perhaps those developers who will be on the RERA red list may want to rent short term. :lol:


----------



## Naz UK

The new laws related to short-term rentals should be announced Q1 2008...


----------



## Morten_Denmark

I understand that the rate of the family’s expenditure on accommodation is estimated at 36 per cent in Dubai. In the capital of Denmark it is approx 60 %. A car in Denmark is 3-4 times as expensive as in Dubai and one litre of petrol is 7 AED. If the familiy has 64% left after paying for accomodation I find that quite much. Or is it just because I am being spoiled in Denmark


----------



## Morrismarina

Morten_Denmark said:


> I understand that the rate of the family’s expenditure on accommodation is estimated at 36 per cent in Dubai. In the capital of Denmark it is approx 60 %. A car in Denmark is 3-4 times as expensive as in Dubai and one litre of petrol is 3 AED. If the familiy has 64% left after paying for accomodation I find that quite much. Or is it just because I am being spoiled in Denmark


Wow....petrol is cheap in Denmark..... in the UK it's AED 8 a litre.


----------



## Imre

1 L petrol only 3 dhs, should be more I think.??? In Hungary 1 L is apr. 6 dhs


----------



## DubaiMarina

Morten_Denmark said:


> I understand that the rate of the family’s expenditure on accommodation is estimated at 36 per cent in Dubai. In the capital of Denmark it is approx 60 %. A car in Denmark is 3-4 times as expensive as in Dubai and one litre of petrol is 3 AED. If the familiy has 64% left after paying for accomodation I find that quite much. Or is it just because I am being spoiled in Denmark


I can testify what Morten said is true. 36 per cent is not so much if you compare to Scandinavia.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Imre said:


> 1 L petrol only 3 dhs, should be more I think.??? In Hungary 1 L is apr. 6 dhs


Sorry - it is 7 AED - I also realised how cheap this was and already found all the empthy plastic containers in the house until I realised the mistake hno:

My point is that everybody says that "living in Dubai" is expensive - why should it be much cheaper living in Dubai coampared to Europe ? I agree that rents are high but if you calculate the full package I am not convinced Dubai is expensive.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

DubaiMarina said:


> I can testify what Morten said is true. 36 per cent is not so much if you compare to Scandinavia.


Hi DubaiMarina

I think you are from Finland - the beautifull country with a thousands lakes.


----------



## smussuw

Morten_Denmark said:


> Sorry - it is 7 AED - I also realised how cheap this was and already found all the empthy plastic containers in the house until I realised the mistake hno:
> 
> My point is that everybody says that "living in Dubai" is expensive - why should it be much cheaper living in Dubai coampared to Europe ? I agree that rents are high but if you calculate the full package I am not convinced Dubai is expensive.


If u were an Indian like 60% of the population earning barely 1500 AED u'd understand.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

smussuw said:


> If u were an Indian like 60% of the population earning barely 1500 AED u'd understand.


Dont you think the goverment then should take full responsibility and provide them with cheap goverment paid housing ? And why are these indians people paid so little ? And no minimum wages ? I see a lot of conflicting rules in Dubai - but I am not living there so I not too qualified to speak out - anyway I can see the problems in a perspective.


----------



## djamel05

Morten_Denmark said:


> I understand that the rate of the family’s expenditure on accommodation is estimated at 36 per cent in Dubai. In the capital of Denmark it is approx 60 %. A car in Denmark is 3-4 times as expensive as in Dubai and one litre of petrol is 7 AED. If the familiy has 64% left after paying for accomodation I find that quite much. Or is it just because I am being spoiled in Denmark


According to today's Gulf News article, you are wrong as the rent represents 60% of the salary. There are studies published by the government that have shown for the last couple of years that the expenditure of households has been more than 100% of the income. Another factor that one should consider in Dubai is that there are no social benefits or retirement plans for expatriates, so expatriates have to save for these things and can not afford the luxury of spending all their income like people in Denmark or other Western countries.

Search for stability in the housing market 
Gulf News
Published: December 30, 2007, 01:15


Any measure taken by the government to reduce costs is welcome

A recent survey in Gulf News showed that it was common for some tenants in Dubai to pay up to 60 per cent of their gross income on rent. This is an extraordinarily large amount of money to set aside from anyone's salary, especially when prices of so many other commodities are continually rising.


----------



## rexdmx

Morten_Denmark said:


> Dont you think the goverment then should take full responsibility and provide them with cheap goverment paid housing ? And why are these indians people paid so little ? And no minimum wages ? I see a lot of conflicting rules in Dubai - but I am not living there so I not too qualified to speak out - anyway I can see the problems in a perspective.



i thought people living in northern europe were subsidized heavily (from taxes) like free health care, insurance, educatin etc :yes:
there is also relative price stability compared to dubai

for the expats here in dubai, there are no taxes but the prices increases was a lot for many expats


----------



## Morten_Denmark

rexdmx said:


> i thought people living in northern europe were subsidized heavily (from taxes) like free health care, insurance, educatin etc :yes:
> there is also relative price stability compared to dubai
> 
> for the expats here in dubai, there are no taxes but the prices increases was a lot for many expats


I read this today (read last section)

http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=565

I am sure you can dig up other numbers - even the 60% - depending which class of people you refer to. In the end of the day - we all agree that the rent is very high. 

When the US decrease the interest even further and UAE have to follow - what do you think will happen to the real estate prices as lending money will cheaper -and then again the rent ? I am just saying that measures like reducing the rent cap seems like a "piss in the trousers" solution !

Yes, people in Northern Europe pays approx 50% in taxes - but there is free healthcare, education and also money for the retired people. It is very difficult to compare these countries as UAE is a relative young country. The biggest difference is that there are no big difference between poor and rich people. Some like this - some dont.


----------



## smussuw

Morten_Denmark said:


> Dont you think the goverment then should take full responsibility and provide them with cheap goverment paid housing ? And why are these indians people paid so little ? And no minimum wages ? I see a lot of conflicting rules in Dubai - but I am not living there so I not too qualified to speak out - anyway I can see the problems in a perspective.


The government should take full responsibility tackle the inflation. Dubai doesn't have to be expensive, why should it? Even luxury apartments and houses here are over priced. Not everyone is being paid 30k here.


----------



## AltinD

DubaiMarina said:


> If the rent cap remain 5% I am interested to invest somewhere else than Dubai. I have a few offices in Business Bay and an apartment in Dubai Marina. I think that´s enough for me if I can rise rents only 5% per year. I will get better profits from stock exchange in the future.


Why should you pretend more then 5% increase in rent every year? Is that the rate the Finish rents increases?

And ABOVE all: Why should you return your investment (by renting out your purchased units) in just over 10 years???? That is insane ... and doesn't even include the increase in your properties value.


----------



## High Times

smussuw said:


> The government should take full responsibility tackle the inflation. *Dubai doesn't have to be expensive*, why should it? Even luxury apartments and houses here are over priced. Not everyone is being paid 30k here.


Ahlien smussuw,

Your right, Dubai doesn't have to be expensive, but your ruler "wants it to be expensive". He is trying to create a 7 star tourist resort and tax haven in the desert. A playground for the worlds wealthy folk.

The benefits of this to Emiratis is a healthy economy for generations to come along with less dependence on oil reserves.

His vision for his country and his people is worthy of great respect in my view. If only western leaders had the the same vision and commitment for their people.


----------



## abf

why impose rent caps then


----------



## AltinD

^^ Why not? The rent increases are mostly speculative anyway.


----------



## smussuw

AltinD said:


> Why should you pretend more then 5% increase in rent every year? Is that the rate the Finish rents increases?
> 
> And ABOVE all: Why should you return your investment (by renting out your purchased units) in just over 10 years???? That is insane ... and doesn't even include the increase in your properties value.


We were discussing this with our professor. In the UK the rate is 1/20 so why should it be 1/10 here?


----------



## smussuw

High Times said:


> Ahlien smussuw,
> 
> Your right, Dubai doesn't have to be expensive, but your ruler "wants it to be expensive". He is trying to create a 7 star tourist resort and tax haven in the desert. A playground for the worlds wealthy folk.
> 
> The benefits of this to Emiratis is a healthy economy for generations to come along with less dependence on oil reserves.
> 
> His vision for his country and his people is worthy of great respect in my view. If only western leaders had the the same vision and commitment for their people.


I don't see any commitment for his people. It is only a commitment for his wealth. Most of the Emiratis are NOT satisfied.

The reasons u've stated answer why wealthy people should go to Dubai. It doesnt say why Dubai should be expensive.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

smussuw said:


> I don't see any commitment for his people. It is only a commitment for his wealth. Most of the Emiratis are NOT satisfied.
> 
> The reasons u've stated doesn't answer why wealthy people should go to Dubai. It doesnt answer why Dubai should be expensive.


Your ruler needs to secure cheap housing - and this has to be run by the goverment. This is how many countries in the western world dealt with similar problems combined with subsidized rents depending on the house income. I know this means that UAE needs to build up a rather advanced social system. I dont think that the rent cap will not solve any problems for the people with small income. Furthermore I have read that RERA do not allow partioned housing - this is really bad as it limit the options for the people with housing problems.

These people getting cheaper housing will after my opinion not affect real estate prices but stabilise the society


----------



## mackie1964

*RERA List; thanks to Dubaimarina*

http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=598


----------



## Dubai_Steve

377 TORCH SELECT LTD (OF) :cheers:


----------



## High Times

^^

What does (OF) mean ?


----------



## mackie1964

^^Oh f**k, not them again :lol:

it should be LLC


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*The Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) will develop an electronic system, to register tenancy agreements which will preserve the right of the two contracting parties, according to a statement. *

"This step will enhance a stable rent market in Dubai," the Rera statement said.

Three different departments in Dubai are implementing the new rent cap decree ( Decree No. 27 of 2007) issued by His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, the statement said. 

The decree states that rents will be capped by 5 per cent in 2008.

The Dubai Land Department, the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera), and the Rent Committee at Dubai Municipality will implement the rent cap in 2008. 

*Rera will register rent contracts starting in 2008 through a developed electronic system, it said.*

Sultan Butti Bin Mejren, director-general of Dubai's Land Department said that the establishment set by Shaikh Mohammad last June to organize the property market is handling with 'high efficiency' the rent sector.

"The Land Department is already looking at new regulations to stable rental market. There are several schemes and studies to find solutions to stabilise high rents in 2009. 

"The decree reflects Shaikh Mohammad's concern for Dubai's UAE nationals and residents who are facing great difficulties because of rent increases" Marwan Bin Ghalita, chief executive of Rera, said in a statement.

"The decree emphasized that rent contract signed in 2007 to 2008 are not to be increased. Which practically means that no rent increase is allowed before two years passing on any contract," he added. 

Shaikh Mohammad had ordered a 15 per cent rent cap in 2006, after which he intervened personally and decreased the cap in 2007 to 7 per cent. 

This kind gesture is a welcome move and strengthens the government's earlier position to support the majority of the emirate's population - namely tenants who have been a victim of unreasonable rent hikes in the past few years.

*Landlords whose rents are lower than the market value can protest at the rent committee at Dubai's Municipality, said Bin Ghalita.*

The chief executive of Rera also said that despite the recentness of this establishment, it has succeeded in setting up a new electronic registry system for new and old rent contracts and for all types of properties, starting from the New Year. 

This will assist in finding a rent data base which will make the whole procedure more efficient and transparent. 

Bin Galita expressed his confidence that all property companies will abide by the new regulations.


----------



## Hanna

*Escrow law*

Hi All


I see that Damac are on the list,but there is nothing to say that they are covering past projects.


----------



## Naz UK

They're on the list Hanna, so put the beer glass down please!


----------



## Hanna

Naz UK said:


> They're on the list Hanna
> 
> Hi Naz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update we will have to wait and see what happens
> if there are any exceptions.Damac have not informed anyone that they
> have joined RERA so we all await details about the existing projects :cheers:
> 
> 
> This is the part I was concerned about Naz please read below about the part that some big companies have been
> exempted.I have been told that Damac is one such company.
> 
> 
> 
> (AFP)
> 
> 
> 
> About 400 real estate developers have been officially licensed by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), paving the way for greater transparency and security for property investors in Dubai.
> 
> 
> Major developers, including Emaar, Dubai Properties, Aldar, Zabeel Investments and Nakheel and their subsidiaries, are included in the list of licensed companies, the majority of whom have opened escrow accounts. The accounts, which safeguard investors’ cash during the development period, will be supervised by the agency. The licences have been granted under Law Number Eight of 2007 on real estate development escrow accounts.
> 
> 
> 
> Rera Chief Executive Marwan Ahmed bin Ghalita said the move underlines the importance of creating greater transparency, a principle adopted by the agency to better regulate the emirate’s real estate sector and urged buyers to beware of unlicensed developers.
> 
> “Investors, who deal with any company not licensed by Rera, would be solely responsible,” he said. “Rera studies each case in depth before granting them a licence.” However, he said some companies and projects have been given special permits that exempt them from opening escrow accounts.
> 
> 
> 
> “Big companies that enjoy good reputation and have strong guarantees have been exempted,” Rera said.


----------



## sameerl

Its on the Emirates Business 24/7 website. Along with Schon Properties as well (which was another surprise). No sign of Wind properties, though


----------



## Hanna

sameerl said:


> Its on the Emirates Business 24/7 website. Along with Schon Properties as well (which was another surprise). No sign of Wind properties, though




Hi sameerl

Does this cover past and present projects, :cheers:


----------



## sameerl

I think it covers all projects, as Damac Properties has been listed on the RERA list, and as per RERA regulations, all projects that are not 70% complete will be subject to the law. If there are any exceptions, they have not yet been announced.


----------



## Hanna

sameerl said:


> I think it covers all projects, as Damac Properties has been listed on the RERA list, and as per RERA regulations, all projects that are not 70% complete will be subject to the law. If there are any exceptions, they have not yet been announced.


Hi sameerl

Damac have made the list yes for new projects from the 28th Dec they have been exempted from all of there previous launches up till the 28th Dec my Dubai source informed me of this.They didn't have the funds to cover their mass portfolio of myths.:cheers:


If you need this in writing that Damac have been exempted on old launches I suggest clients write to the Customer service Dept and
get them to verify this is the truth.




This is the part I was concerned about sameerl please read below about the part that some big companies have been
exempted.I have been told that Damac is one such company.What a cop out the Goverenment have changed the rules 
to suit them already can you believe it! I think Damac have thrown there money around in so many countries they can't
have enough to cover the all there launches in Dubai,they must have told the Goverenment this and they have decided
to exempt them because of their high profile in Dubai this is the only logical answer I can think of.



(AFP) 



About 400 real estate developers have been officially licensed by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), paving the way for greater transparency and security for property investors in Dubai. 


Major developers, including Emaar, Dubai Properties, Aldar, Zabeel Investments and Nakheel and their subsidiaries, are included in the list of licensed companies, the majority of whom have opened escrow accounts. The accounts, which safeguard investors’ cash during the development period, will be supervised by the agency. The licences have been granted under Law Number Eight of 2007 on real estate development escrow accounts.



Rera Chief Executive Marwan Ahmed bin Ghalita said the move underlines the importance of creating greater transparency, a principle adopted by the agency to better regulate the emirate’s real estate sector and urged buyers to beware of unlicensed developers.

“Investors, who deal with any company not licensed by Rera, would be solely responsible,” he said. “Rera studies each case in depth before granting them a licence.” However, he said some companies and projects have been given special permits that exempt them from opening escrow accounts.



“Big companies that enjoy good reputation and have strong guarantees have been exempted,” Rera said.


----------



## High Times

smussuw said:


> I don't see any commitment for his people. It is only a commitment for his wealth. Most of the Emiratis are NOT satisfied.
> 
> The reasons u've stated answer why wealthy people should go to Dubai. It doesnt say why Dubai should be expensive.


smussuw,

Perhaps you could help me out as you are an Emirati living in Dubai,

How much do Emiratis have to pay for basic schooling ?
How much do Emiratis have to pay for basic health care ?
Is there any kind of retirement pension for Emiratis ?
What is the basic rate of income tax for Emiratis ?

In general it's nice to hear the local perspective on what's happening here.

Shukran Jazeilen.


----------



## mackie1964

sameerl said:


> Its on the Emirates Business 24/7 website. Along with Schon Properties as well (which was another surprise). No sign of Wind properties, though


I think the owner name is on the list somewhere, Aziz......!!

Not sure but this could be him!

286 MOHMOUD REZA AZIZI TOURSHIZI



Wind Spokesperson said:


> Dear all Investors:
> We are pleased to announce that we are listed among the approved Developers of UAE. For more information please refer to:
> 
> www.business24-7.ae
> 
> line Number 286 Mahmoud Reza Azizi Tourshizi
> 
> Happy New Year & all the best


----------



## Hanna

Hi All



Happy New Year to EVERYBODY !:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:


----------



## smussuw

High Times said:


> smussuw,
> 
> Perhaps you could help me out as you are an Emirati living in Dubai,
> 
> How much do Emiratis have to pay for basic schooling ?
> How much do Emiratis have to pay for basic health care ?
> Is there any kind of retirement pension for Emiratis ?
> What is the basic rate of income tax for Emiratis ?
> 
> In general it's nice to hear the local perspective on what's happening here.
> 
> Shukran Jazeilen.


You are not getting the point. It isn't all about money !!

Reality is that we have to change our life style because of that. Why do I need to wait four years to get a plot of land? Why do I have to pay 100% more to build a house comparing to 3 years ago? We are forced to tolerate many of the things that happening here. How is the Arabic language going? No one speaks Arabic.

Free schooling, healthcare, no taxes is part of our basic life style. Why does that need to change? Why do we even need to compare ourselves with other countries?


----------



## High Times

smussuw said:


> You are not getting the point. It isn't all about money !!
> 
> Reality is that we have to change our life style because of that. Why do I need to wait four years to get a plot of land? Why do I have to pay 100% more to build a house comparing to 3 years ago? We are forced to tolerate many of the things that happening here. How is the Arabic language going? No one speaks Arabic.
> 
> Free schooling, healthcare, no taxes is part of our basic life style. Why does that need to change? Why do we even need to compare ourselves with other countries?


All right, my friend, calm down.

Your original point was;


smussuw said:


> I don't see any commitment for his people. It is only a commitment for his wealth. Most of the Emiratis are NOT satisfied.


I was just saying that I admired your rulers vision and leadership.

You are fortunate enough to live in a country with;

Free education.
Free healthcare.
NO direct Taxation.
Soon to be the worlds number 1 tourist desitination.
Soon to be a major global financial and business hub.

The signature on your profile looks like the Guiness book of records in praise of your country, you claim to be a patriot Emirati, and your still NOT satisfied.

smussuw i feel sorry for you if you are genuinly NOT satisfied with life in Dubai. You are always welcome to come and live in London anytime and compare the two, at least nearly everyone speaks Arabic here. 

I guess some people are never satisfied are they.


----------



## FWIW

^^Happy New Year All!


----------



## shahidsa

smussuw said:


> You are not getting the point. It isn't all about money !!
> 
> Reality is that we have to change our life style because of that. Why do I need to wait four years to get a plot of land? Why do I have to pay 100% more to build a house comparing to 3 years ago? We are forced to tolerate many of the things that happening here. How is the Arabic language going? No one speaks Arabic.
> 
> Free schooling, healthcare, no taxes is part of our basic life style. Why does that need to change? Why do we even need to compare ourselves with other countries?


Hi,
Are you saying that you get all the free stuff without paying any price? In my opinion nationals in the gcc countries are paying the price for the privileges they enjoy. I have a solution, kick out all expats and you wont have the issues that you are talking about, but then would you still have all the stuff that you enjoy ? for example who would teach in your engineering universities for example? Now unless you want white collar employees to be hired like the maids you hire , then thats a different story i guess.

I think the problem is that you are the very people who are show stoppers to the great vision by Highness General Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum to provide the best the world has to offer. http://www.uniglobalproperties.com/dubaivision2020.php

I am glad that most of the people i met in dubai are not thinking in your style and I can say dubai will beat all major capitals of the world in all aspects by 2020 and it will be one the place for all asian and middle east countries to follow for success for its people and also for the benefit of the society in general which is the qualified people of the world who come and server and also made their life back home.

Regards


----------



## smussuw

^^ I guess u met the wrong people :banana:



High Times said:


> You are fortunate enough to live in a country with;
> 
> Free education.
> Free healthcare.
> NO direct Taxation.
> Soon to be the worlds number 1 tourist desitination.
> Soon to be a major global financial and business hub.
> 
> The signature on your profile looks like the Guiness book of records in praise of your country, you claim to be a patriot Emirati, and your still NOT satisfied.
> 
> smussuw i feel sorry for you if you are genuinly NOT satisfied with life in Dubai. You are always welcome to come and live in London anytime and compare the two, at least nearly everyone speaks Arabic here.
> 
> I guess some people are never satisfied are they.


I support all those points u've stated but they shouldn't come on our expenses.


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> The signature on your profile looks like the Guiness book of records in praise of your country, you claim to be a patriot Emirati, and your still NOT satisfied.
> 
> smussuw i feel sorry for you if you are genuinly NOT satisfied with life in Dubai. You are always welcome to come and live in London anytime and compare the two, at least nearly everyone speaks Arabic here.
> 
> I guess some people are never satisfied are they.


Being patriot does not mean one has to be satisfied with everything. In fact pointing out problems is his right and means he cares about his country which could be a sign of patriotism.


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> You are not getting the point. It isn't all about money !!
> 
> Reality is that we have to change our life style because of that. Why do I need to wait four years to get a plot of land? Why do I have to pay 100% more to build a house comparing to 3 years ago? We are forced to tolerate many of the things that happening here. How is the Arabic language going? No one speaks Arabic.
> 
> Free schooling, healthcare, no taxes is part of our basic life style. Why does that need to change? Why do we even need to compare ourselves with other countries?


I totally understand your point. With so many changes coming so fast you must be feeling yourself as an outsider in your own country.


----------



## abf

sameerl said:


> Its on the Emirates Business 24/7 website. Along with Schon Properties as well (which was another surprise). No sign of Wind properties, though


“
Investors, who deal with any company not licensed by Rera, would be solely responsible,” he said. “Rera studies each case in depth before granting them a licence.” However, he said some companies and projects have been given special permits that exempt them from opening escrow accounts.

It would be interesting if someone or - Rera could clarify how the Limited companies are covered - especially projects where licences have been obtained in Developers' personal names eg Wind


----------



## Hanna

abf said:


> “
> Investors, who deal with any company not licensed by Rera, would be solely responsible,” he said. “Rera studies each case in depth before granting them a licence.” However, he said some companies and projects have been given special permits that exempt them from opening escrow accounts.
> 
> It would be interesting if someone or - Rera could clarify how the Limited companies are covered - especially projects where licences have been obtained in Developers' personal names eg Wind


Hi abf


I will repost me and morris comms this morning I cannot answer your question yet and I doubt RERA will be any help.

Damac the escrow dodgers supreme 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrismarina 
Hi Hanna,

Happy New Year to you as well. I've been full of colds and flu the last few weeks so had a quiet night in.

I agree with everything you say about the RERA fiasco. There are a few issues here IMO:

1. Developments already launched - so we know that no funds will go into escrow. This affects those who have already paid funds to Damac (such as your good self) and we do not know what protection will be afforded. They mention some kind of "guarantees" but I reckon this will be nothing of substance. What they need to do is provide a 100% guarantee backed up by the Dubai Government but I doubt this will happen and the guarantee will be just a few words on paper, nothing specific, only what we have now.

2. However this will also affect future sales as of course not all Damac projects launched so far have completely sold out, some launches are so recent that there must be many thousands of units left. So new buyers may be very wary as there will be no escrow in place. For example lets say somebody was daft enough this morning to pay the asking price for an apartment in Ocean Heights 2 - now as this is an exempted development, there will be no escrow in place, so if it was me I'd certainly want to know what protection I was going to get. Just a few words here and there about the developer being "reputable" is not going to sway me to buy, not when I can go to another developer and be assured of my funds going into an escrow account. So although Damac have launched many, many projects already are they going to sell without escrow in place ?? 

3. New launches after 28th December for exempted developers, these have to have escrow in place. But why ?? Based on RERA's logic these exempted developers are of such standing and reputation that there is no need for escrow. So why then are they insisting on it for anything launched 28th Dec onwards ?? Does not make sense. Double standards !!

4. I can understand somebody in your position Hanna being very annoyed over all this. The funds you've paid for OH should be now transferred to an escrow account but you're not going to get this now. I doubt the comfort of knowing that Damac are "reputable" will in any way make up for this. You've been let down badly here by RERA.

5. The part I don't like is that RERA have not published the names of the exempted developers. Why the hell not ?? They obviously think this is disadvantagous to the developer. They should at least come clean and tell us who they are. 

6.There is no "red list" this was just a figment of RERA's imagination. 




Hi Morris


I hope you get better soon mate.

Thanks for your thoughts in the matter I am 100% in agreement on your above points could not put it more eloquently if I tried.My heart is lifted that you have seen through their subterfuge as well, I thought I was the only one that seemed concerned about it.I bet a lot of people will not have heard anything about the above, only because there is no free press in Dubai and nobody in there right mind would write about there shady dealings.I am afraid it is all down to buyers beware and will need to be cautious on who they deal with in the future (thats funny I think that is what RERA warns you) Hypocrites thats what they are.

Thanks for your concern over my purchase with Damac and Ocean Heights I will do a couple of prayers every week and hope for the best that's all I can do with this mob of Bengal Chancers. I agree with your point I should be ok as far as Ocean Heights is concerned but I am not only thinking of myself its all the others that are caught up on this false promise,this is the reason I chose to write these things and if I can warn even 1 person to be wary then I think its been worth while


----------



## DubaiMarina

High Times said:


> You are fortunate enough to live in a country with;
> 
> Free education.
> Free healthcare.
> NO direct Taxation.
> Soon to be the worlds number 1 tourist desitination.
> Soon to be a major global financial and business hub.
> 
> The signature on your profile looks like the Guiness book of records in praise of your country, you claim to be a patriot Emirati, and your still NOT satisfied.
> 
> smussuw i feel sorry for you if you are genuinly NOT satisfied with life in Dubai. You are always welcome to come and live in London anytime and compare the two, at least nearly everyone speaks Arabic here.
> 
> I guess some people are never satisfied are they.


I totally agree. You live the best place on Earth and you complain. hno:


----------



## smussuw

^^ For you it is up to how much ur pocket earn. If something bad happened to the UAE all of u would run away while we are the ones who are going to face the reality.


----------



## DubaiMarina

Thas´s not true. For me Dubai is the best place to live and don´t want to "_run away_". I want to make it better place as I can. I have travelled over 100 coutries and Dubai is my favorate place to live with Monaco.


----------



## Imre

*Appreciable rise in Dubai property prices predicted in 2008 *

Property prices in Dubai are believed to go up between 5% and 10% in 2008, as delays in housing projects mean pent up demand remains unfulfilled. Prices will rise dramatically in the second half of 2008 when the market faces its biggest shortfall. 

In October real estate developer Tamweel estimated that the present gap in supply to be about 20,000 units. Prices for both villas and apartments rose 18.7% in the first 11 months of 2007, above expectations. 

here is the whole article:
http://www.gowealthy.com/newsletter/annual07/dubai2008.asp


----------



## Doctor_UK

guys... i have recently heard that in case of your death, your property in dubai is not inherited to your children or NOK... but is taken over by the government.... is that true?:nuts:





...


----------



## High Times

Imre said:


> *Appreciable rise in Dubai property prices predicted in 2008 *
> 
> *In October real estate developer Tamweel estimated that the present gap in supply to be about 20,000 units. Prices for both villas and apartments rose 18.7% in the first 11 months of 2007, above expectations. *
> 
> 
> 
> When they quote increases like this do you think they mean completed properties only or units under construction too?
> 
> I know the articles are only opinion of someone but wandered what they think the increase will apply to?
> 
> Anyone ??
Click to expand...


----------



## Monument

Doctor_UK said:


> guys... i have recently heard that in case of your death, your property in dubai is not inherited to your children or NOK... but is taken over by the government.... is that true?:nuts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is an important question as it is the first I've heard of this. Anyone know the truth?


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Monument said:


> This is an important question as it is the first I've heard of this. Anyone know the truth?


Indeed this is important. I only found this:

http://www.eyeofdubai.com/en/extlnk....com/en/articles/article_detail.asp?artid=409


----------



## AltinD

It has been explained before. I think sharia law will be used which means your will will be irrelevant. 

That's why many people buy their properties under off-shore companies names.


----------



## High Times

^^

This is the most sensible option, especialy if buying more than 1 unit and also if you are UK or US resident for tax purposes as you are technicaly supposed to declare worldwide income. I would think this is the same of most countries but dont know for sure.


----------



## hayesh

Hello All,

I just went to DSO today to check out the progress on the La Vista project and could not even find a sign to guide me that I am at the right spot. I found a white fence, no sign and the beginnings of an onsite office. There are a bunch of Villas being constructed behind the plot of land.

Can anyone confirm my above observations? Does anyone know who the contractor is? I wish I took some pictures to post them here.

Hany


----------



## Morrismarina

The last I heard on this was that for ex-pats the deceased's estate would be distributed according to the laws of his/her's home country. So if for example you were from the UK the British law would come into force, meaning that your Will would be honoured or, if the deceased died intestate (no Will made) then the UK intestacy laws would apply.

The Dubai Government would definitely not take your property and keep it for themselves. :nuts:

Here's a link that confirms this:

http://dubaiforvisitors.com/2007/09/27/making-a-will-and-registering-it/


----------



## Hanna

Morrismarina said:


> The last I heard on this was that for ex-pats the deceased's estate would be distributed according to the laws of his/her's home country. So if for example you were from the UK the British law would come into force, meaning that your Will would be honoured or, if the deceased died intestate (no Will made) then the UK intestacy laws would apply.
> 
> The Dubai Government would definitely not take your property and keep it for themselves. :nuts:
> 
> Here's a link that confirms this:
> 
> http://dubaiforvisitors.com/2007/09/27/making-a-will-and-registering-it/




Hi Morris

That is exactly what my lawyer told me what you said above :cheers:


----------



## AltinD

That's a novelty to me, but it is good they have implemented it already.


----------



## Naz UK

So Altin, where will you be investing in 2008?


----------



## AltinD

^^ Hm ... let me consult Gowealthy and Betterhomes websites and will get back to you. :runaway:


----------



## Monument

The Rental caps (only allowed to increase rental 5% a year) are going to have a big effect on prices of apartments - they are directly related. The yield on your property is your rent. Prices of the underlying (capital appreciation) property may still increase due to momentum of the market but in the medium term they will settle to be the same or less annual increase as rental yield - ie 5%.

Rental caps are extremely socialist in nature and are a feature of cities runs by very left wing organizations. The only city with a rent control I know of in the US, for instance, is San Francisco and even there it has more or less dwindled in its imposition. They only work to mess up the efficient operation of the market.

For a city that touts it capitalist credentials the rental cap is very bad news. As it shows it has a very large foot in the "state meddling" camp.


----------



## AltinD

^^ NYC applies a rental cap as well ... and it is NECESSARY temporary measure in Dubai to protect the residents from artificial rent hikes, which really is the case.

You may argue that caps is not conform any market economy rules, but so are also the existence of cartels and price fixing.

When rents will represent the REAL market price, then will be no need for the cap and as I have already mention a couple of times: in no market you can get back the amount you spent for purchasing your apartment/home in just 10 years by renting it ... try 20 or 30 or even 40, so sit back, relax and don't make a big fuss about it.


----------



## was2103

smussuw said:


> You are not getting the point. It isn't all about money !!
> 
> Reality is that we have to change our life style because of that. Why do I need to wait four years to get a plot of land? Why do I have to pay 100% more to build a house comparing to 3 years ago? We are forced to tolerate many of the things that happening here. How is the Arabic language going? No one speaks Arabic.
> 
> Free schooling, healthcare, no taxes is part of our basic life style. Why does that need to change? Why do we even need to compare ourselves with other countries?


Totally agree about the language. I came here to learn Arabic but have not managed it yet, inshallah I refuse to leave the east without it. It is obvious that Urdu / Hindi is the main language here and even the locals speak it. about as much as English.

The shame is that the local culture is so delicate and introvert that it can be lost / ignored easily. It is noble and elegant and efficient and responsible but capitalism has a habit of burying all that in the dirt, very quickly.

You do sound very spoiled in terms of your demands.
Why do you need to compare yourself to other countries? Because that is what you are competing with.
Why should you wait for a plot for years? Cause it's free.
And why do you have to pay more to build a house? It doesn't matter, the gov gives you money towards that as well. And everyone has to pay for this including me.

My country doesn't give me many of the benefits that you enjoy for free. I can't even trust the schools with my children. And they Tax me like a slave.

Admit that you are better off now than you were before this gargantuan advent.

Man, I've spoken to the hardset hit people in this country and they still choose to be here, even without their families. The sheikh has done an amazing job. He is also protecting our investments and creating an atlantis in the desert. The Saudis, with their enormous wealth and resources have been completely unable to do anything like this. Commend him, do not criticize him. Even an Afghan taxi driver told me; this is a ruler, and this is how to rule.

I have to add a controversial point here. The competence level in the Emirati workforce is questionable to my experience. Show me any development designed, funded, built and delivered by emiraties. You need us just as much as we need you.


----------



## AltinD

Of course some people who have done that personally will be able to give you a better response then some legal offices. Who you might be talking to on the phone would be secretaries or assistants anyway.


----------



## High Times

^^

Mackie,

My point is that if you seek proffessional legal advice and it is incorrect you have some kind of redress with a reputable law firm.

If you follow a forumers advice and it's wrong your in a very different place.

I agree there are some very knowledgeable people in here but there are far more people who think they are very knowlegeable, that's all.


----------



## DXBGO

Thanks for your prompt replies. 
I have found the answer to question 4. If I register as an off shore company it doesnt give entitlement to a visa, unless an office is maintained in the JAFZA so I will still need to take up the residency visa from a developer.

So now I just need to work out the complicated bit of registering in either one or 2 phases. I have contacted a lawyer who deals with setting up off shore companies and she has passed my queries on to someone specialised in property matters. I'll let you know the answer once they reply, incase anyone else is in the same position.

If in the meantime if anyone has further suggestions, advice or experience I am happy to hear it 
Thanks :cheers:


----------



## mackie1964

Worth a read

http://www.shelteroffshore.com/index.php/offshore/more/incorporating_an_offshore_company_in_dubai/


----------



## AITU

^^ I'm no legal expert but I have dabbled in property in offshore companies.

2nd Question - Is the property ready for handover or already been handed over? I think it is more straightforward if you haven't been handed over the property from the developer yet.

Technically if you are both parties, I think your offshore entity can purchase the property from you at whatever price the two parties agree, therefore you could sell the property to the offshore company at a low price -maybe even below original price (but check this). This will lower the cost of the transfer fee to put it into the offco name. You can then register the property at the same price hence minimizing the registration fee.

You have to pay the 1% for each charge but you can minimize how much cash you actually have to outlay based on the valuation of the property (I think)





DXBGO said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Can anyone assist please?
> 
> I need to register property before mid 2008, so I will be charged 1% of the purchase price, not the market value.
> 
> 1st question. Does anyone know of an agent who can register property without me being in Dubai?
> 
> 2nd question. I purchased the property in my own name, but now wish to register it as an offshore company in the Jebel Ali Free Zone. To do this do I need to register the property in my name, pay 1% then transfer it to my company (which I have not yet formed, but I have a solicitor who can do this) and pay 1% as seller and further 1% as purchaser? Or can I just register it straight into a company name and pay only once? If I need to register twice it would be more expensive to do this after mid 2008 as i am presuming that I would need to pay 1% + 1% market value at that time.
> 
> 3rd Question. Does anyone know of any downside to registering property in the name of an off shore company?
> 
> 
> 4th Question. Once I form an offshore company does this entitle me to residency visa without me needing sponsorship from the developer? Is there any difference in this type of visa?
> 
> Thanks guys, I have been saving my questions up! :dunno:


----------



## Morrismarina

_05 January 2008 - by Primrose Skelton © Emirates Business 24/7 _

The index, to be launched on January 15 by the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) means developments in certain areas will have a minimum and maximum rent price that landlords must adhere to. Any landlords charging more will have to report to Dubai Municipality's Rent Dispute Committee, which is backing the new scheme. 

Although, the full index figures have not been released, Marwan Ahmed bin Ghalita, CEO of the RERA told Emirates Business the rent bands for Mirdif will range from a minimum of Dh100,000 to a maximum of Dh200,000 for all villas and apartments. And in Karama the index will range from Dh40,000 to Dh70,000.

The figures are good news for people being charged too much. It also means landlords who currently have tenants paying under the market value can go to the rent committee to ask that their property be increased to the value stated on the index. 

However, Bin Ghalita said it would be unlikely a landlord would win the case because of the five per cent cap imposed this week, which states landlords cannot increase rent by more than five per cent in two years. 

At present Dubai does not have a list of property rents in different areas, which means landlords have often charged over the odds for their villas and apartments. 

"It is hoped the index will give comprehensive guidelines to both the tenant and the landlord, making the whole process totally transparent thus levelling out the price discrepancies in different areas," said Bin Ghalita who spoke to Emirates Business to explain what the index means. 

"Some property is under estimated and some is over estimated. For new families coming to Dubai we want the market to be very transparent and for people already here we want guidelines to be there for them. The index will be for the majority of Dubai communities and be a guide to the minimum and maximum rent cost of a property." 

If a new arrival in Dubai flicks through the property classifieds, they could find they cannot afford to live where they want to. Yet some tenants already occupying homes in those dream areas are paying well below the figure advertised.

Rental rates in Mirdif, for example, can be anything from Dh85,000 a year for a one-bed apartment to Dh220,000 for a four-bed villa, and some properties with the same number of bedrooms and similar facilities range in price by as much as Dh30,000. But under the index the cost will be reduced for some tenants thanks to the new index cap of Dh200,000. 

Bin Ghalita said:"The rent values will be dependent on many factors, such as the building's location, age and condition along with facilities provided, like sports courts, swimming pools and security. It would be wrong for tenants to pay Dh200,000 on a three-bedroom that was in a bad condition, had no facilities and was old, but it would also be wrong for someone to be paying 100,000 on a well maintained three-bed villa, with a swimming pool. The idea of the index is to level out the market so people know what they will get for their money. 

"In Karama, a much cheaper market the same minimum and maximum rental costs will apply, be it lower. The minimum will be Dh40,000 and the maximum Dh70,000." Currently properties in the area are being rented out for Dh100,000. In October 2005, a one-bedroom in the Greens was Dh65,000, today it is around Dh105,000 and two years ago a three-bed villa in Arabian Ranches was Dh95,000, today that has increased to Dh170,000. 

Under the index, properties in the Greens and Arabian Ranches will have a minimum and maximum range. This will set guidelines for landlords and tenants alike and help people know how much a property is worth renting for. 

The index list will be updated every year so landlords have a benchmark for each property and can refer to it for guidance. 

After two years landlords can negotiate with the rent committee to increase the price range of the property. 

But landlords may not be able to increase properties by more than five per cent. "The law still states that rent can only increase by five per cent. It would be a long process for a landlord to ask for a property to increase to the market value and they might not be successful," said Bin Ghalita. 

As the news filtered through to Dubai property companies, many were consulting legal advisors to see exactly what the index means for owners. Better Homes said it was too early to make a judgment on what the system means. "We are speaking to our legal department and head of leasing before we comment," said a spokesperson. 

The Dubai Land and Property Department (DLP)Dubai Land and Property Department (DLP) believes the index will clarify the price of property in Dubai putting an end to the chaos and rent variations currently surrounding the real estate market. 

A spokesperson from the DLP said: "The index will give a clear indication of how much each property in certain areas is worth. This will put an end to the confusion in the evaluation of real estate in the local market."

The DLP also believes the rent index will enhance confidence in the real estate market for all parties. "Tenants will know the amount of increase that will be applied to them and landlords will be aware of the amount they should demand. " 

All information about properties, including date and statistics will be provided by the DLP. "This will enhance transparency and help deliver unprejudiced, objective and logical information reflecting the real image of the market," said a spokesman. 

Bin Ghalita agrees: "We are trying to regulate the market and make it clearer for both landlords and tenants so the Dubai realty market continues to flourish."

Steps to the rent committee


- Call the Rent Committee on 04 221 5555. 


- Prepare the correct documents. You will need a tenancy agreement, a copy of your passport and any other relevant correspondence with your landlord to explain your issue. 


- Know your rights. Remember all tenants have the right to complain to the committee.


- Be prepared for a visit from the Rent Committee. They will send a team to visit the building and then determine whether the rent increase is justified.

Viewpoint


Briton Hannah Stevens, 29, who has just moved to Dubai said the new index would make finding a home in her budget easier. "At the moment it is difficult to know if you are being ripped off or if you have a great deal. Properties in the same area with the same number of bedrooms range in price by as much as Dh30,000. 

"I think it is good news for the market as a whole because it will make it more transparent and stop landlords from over pricing substandard units. My only concern is for people who are paying a lot less rent because they arrived here three years ago when their property was worth less than it is now."


----------



## i love dubai

This is bad news. I think Dubai is starting to head in the wrong direction, and with all the new laws, the future of the property in dubai does not look good.


----------



## i love dubai

I also think with all those new resrictions the flag has to be changed too, more RED maybe?


----------



## DubaiMarina

i love dubai said:


> This is bad news.


I agree. If you have paid more for quality you will get the same than investor who hasn´t. Now it is wiser to invest trash than quality because you will get the same profit anyway.


----------



## i love dubai

I wonder what is next, rental tax?


----------



## DubaiMarina

*Star rating to control rent* 

http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=875


----------



## i love dubai

Supply and demand controls rent.


----------



## FWIW

I think this regulation will make more people look into short term holiday lets.


----------



## i love dubai

Lets hope that no other new restrictions or taxes would be imposed on the short term vacation rental, with the way it has been going, who knows? everything is possible.


----------



## DubaiMarina

What is the maximum time for short term rental. One month?


----------



## agod

What did Churchill say about "this being the beginning of the end" not a good idea this, something that Nasty Ken Livingstone would dream up for us Londoners, rent caps, and Inspectors checking your building out.

Greed is a great driver in mankind, and Dubai was the place it was always going to happen, it is the last great frontier where you can make a fortune.

Now as it gets more regulated with this kind of stuff investors will think twice about going there, this should happen a couple of years down the road when a lot more is built, and rents would have found there own levels, then it could be looked at, this is a knee jerk reaction to a problem that hasn't happened yet. 
As Winston said "is this the beginning of the end" 

Alan


----------



## i love dubai

Notice that the article states that star rating will be in CERTAIN AREAS well guess what? I bet that those certain areas will be the free hold areas. this new law is not to be taken lightly, I see a real estate disaster coming to Dubai.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yes I expect this will be in areas such as Dubai Marina. I wonder what facilities will be used for the star rating. Perhaps finish quality of entrance hall, lifts, pool size, communal areas, landscaping, gym, sauna, presence of internal shops, cafes etc. ?

Will the star rating later be used for taxation, similar to council tax in the UK ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

i love dubai said:


> Bad news for property owners in Dubai,
> 
> 05 January 2008 - by Primrose Skelton © Emirates Business 24/7
> 
> The index, to be launched on January 15 by the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) means developments in certain areas will have a minimum and maximum rent price that landlords must adhere to. Any landlords charging more will have to report to Dubai Municipality's Rent Dispute Committee, which is backing the new scheme.
> 
> Although, the full index figures have not been released, Marwan Ahmed bin Ghalita, CEO of the RERA told Emirates Business the rent bands for Mirdif will range from a minimum of Dh100,000 to a maximum of Dh200,000 for all villas and apartments. And in Karama the index will range from Dh40,000 to Dh70,000.
> 
> The figures are good news for people being charged too much. It also means landlords who currently have tenants paying under the market value can go to the rent committee to ask that their property be increased to the value stated on the index.
> 
> However, Bin Ghalita said it would be unlikely a landlord would win the case because of the five per cent cap imposed this week, which states landlords cannot increase rent by more than five per cent in two years.


So there is minimum rent price that landlords must adhere to yet you may not be able to conform to this as the rent cap will not allow you to increase it. :nuts:

This is all really dumb, it should be controlled by the market price, nothing else.


----------



## i love dubai

I think it is the maximum that landlords must adhere to. We will have to wait till the 15th and see the index figures. I wonder how much it would be for a 1 bedroom in the marina?


----------



## was2103

You guys vent your frustrations as investors. The tenants and local talent have a much harder time paying the rent. This needs to be controlled or you loose a significant portion of your workforce.

Once they go away, it will be difficult to replenish their ranks. All the new-comers to Dubai that I know are in a tough squeeze with regards to having an economical justification to stay. Only the ones that have housing allowances from their companies are doing well.


----------



## IISinbadII

Yeh, lets :bash: the evil Landlords!



> It also means landlords who currently have tenants paying under the market value can go to the rent committee to ask that their property be increased to the value stated on the index.
> 
> *However, Bin Ghalita said it would be unlikely a landlord would win the case *because of the five per cent cap imposed this week, which states landlords cannot increase rent by more than five per cent in two years.





> After two years landlords can negotiate with the rent committee to increase the price range of the property.
> 
> But landlords may not be able to increase properties by more than five per cent. "The law still states that rent can only increase by five per cent. *It would be a long process for a landlord to ask for a property to increase to the market value and they might not be successful,*" said Bin Ghalita.





> - *Be prepared for a visit from the Rent Committee. They will send a team to visit the building and then determine whether the rent increase is justified*.





> The Dubai Land and Property Department (DLP)Dubai Land and Property Department (DLP) believes *the index will clarify the price of property in Dubai* putting an end to the chaos and rent variations currently surrounding the real estate market.
> 
> A spokesperson from the DLP said: "*The index will give a clear indication of how much each property in certain areas is worth*. This will put an end to the confusion in the evaluation of real estate in the local market."


----------



## abf

agod said:


> What did Churchill say about "this being the beginning of the end" not a good idea this, something that Nasty Ken Livingstone would dream up for us Londoners, rent caps, and Inspectors checking your building out.
> 
> Greed is a great driver in mankind, and Dubai was the place it was always going to happen, it is the last great frontier where you can make a fortune.
> 
> Now as it gets more regulated with this kind of stuff investors will think twice about going there, this should happen a couple of years down the road when a lot more is built, and rents would have found there own levels, then it could be looked at, this is a knee jerk reaction to a problem that hasn't happened yet.
> As Winston said "is this the beginning of the end"
> 
> Alan


Absolutely correct.
If workforce start leaving prices automatically will adjust to reflect this - rent caps are artificial assurances - or maybe they don't expect substantial new investment in the building sector


----------



## DXBGO

AITU said:


> ^^ I'm no legal expert but I have dabbled in property in offshore companies.
> 
> 2nd Question - Is the property ready for handover or already been handed over? I think it is more straightforward if you haven't been handed over the property from the developer yet.
> 
> Technically if you are both parties, I think your offshore entity can purchase the property from you at whatever price the two parties agree, therefore you could sell the property to the offshore company at a low price -maybe even below original price (but check this). This will lower the cost of the transfer fee to put it into the offco name. You can then register the property at the same price hence minimizing the registration fee.
> 
> You have to pay the 1% for each charge but you can minimize how much cash you actually have to outlay based on the valuation of the property (I think)


Hi Aitu, 

Thanks for your reponse. The property is complete and has been handed over. You are correct in saying it would be less complicated if it hadnt already been handed over and I presume the developer has already registered their part. 

Thanks for the suggestion re selling to the company at a lower price than market value. You may have something there. 

:cheers:


----------



## DXBGO

abf said:


> Absolutely correct.
> If workforce start leaving prices automatically will adjust to reflect this - rent caps are artificial assurances - or maybe they don't expect substantial new investment in the building sector



The problem is not only of workforces leaving as they cant afford the rent, the problem is that if rents continue to increase by large amounts inflation stays high and companies choose not to relocate to the area in the first place. There are many other similar area that are up and comming where companies will be willing to set up. 
We have buy to let properties in the UK and have been advised not to increase the rent at all as tennants have so much choice. The yield is only about 3% which is rubbish especially compared to the 8-10% we have become used to in Dubai, where we also have very good capital appreciation, again not like the UK. 

The rental industry does need some guidance to stop the market overheating. This will lead to long term sustainable growth and hopefully avoid a crash.:soapbox:


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## DubaiMarina

I am worried this situation. I have invested a lot to Dubai and now it looks like that stocks are the better place to put money. Stock profit can gain more than 5 % every 2 years.


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## DXBGO

DubaiMarina said:


> I am worried this situation. I have invested a lot to Dubai and now it looks like that stocks are the better place to put money. Stock profit can gain more than 5 % every 2 years.


Yes, but you can also loose it all very quickly in the stock market. I've tried that too!!. The 5% you are talking about os just the increase in the rental income, you still have the capital growth remember.


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## AltinD

DubaiMarina said:


> I am worried this situation. I have invested a lot to Dubai and now it looks like that stocks are the better place to put money. Stock profit can gain more than 5 % every 2 years.


What are you talking about. hno:


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## googly

The last thing that investors want in Dubai is a big market crash. In order to prevent that, the Govt must eliminate speculators who are not investing in the country for the long haul. 

While a rental cap is a bad idea for "normal economies", it might be a good one for Dubai where the market is overheated by speculators who are out there to gain a quick buck and then run. Besides, if the rental return is not good enough, then dont rent out your unit; sell it and purchase another one which is not yet finished.


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## i love dubai

It is not evil landrods, rather supply and demand that deremined the present figures. There are so many choices in Dubai and neighboring emirates, if you cant afford 100k for a 1 bedroom flat in the marina, then go to international city and you will find it for 60k, if you cant afford that, go to Ajman and it is only 35k.
That is why so many people work in new york and live in new jersy because it is cheaper but not so close and not so nice.


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## AltinD

^^ I have to ask you this question: How long have you been living in Dubai (if ever)?


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## mackie1964

My Main concern is not the % or the Return on investment but it is the fact that so many new laws that have not been thought through carefully in my opinion. It seems almost like they have been dished out by young inexperienced people without consultation. 

There is no doubt that if it is meant to scare investors (short and long term), it is having the desired impact. 

As I said before, this Dubai vision is getting blurred by the day. hno:


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## i love dubai

Why what is that got to do with socialist laws being implemented in Dubai?


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## hayesh

An update: There is a sign on the highway for Al Manal and a contractor has been selected: Rotana Contracting, I think. Anyhow, supposedly, things should start rolling soon.


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## IISinbadII

googly said:


> The last thing that investors want in Dubai is a big market crash. In order to prevent that, the Govt must eliminate speculators who are not investing in the country for the long haul.


Even those who have invested in the country for the 'long haul' need a reasonable rental return on their investment plus a raise each year to beat inflation figures.


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## IISinbadII

i love dubai said:


> It is not evil landrods, rather supply and demand that deremined the present figures. There are so many choices in Dubai and neighboring emirates, if you cant afford 100k for a 1 bedroom flat in the marina, then go to international city and you will find it for 60k, if you cant afford that, go to Ajman and it is only 35k.
> That is why so many people work in new york and live in new jersy because it is cheaper but not so close and not so nice.


kay:


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## DubaiMarina

mackie1964 said:


> There is no doubt that if it is meant to scare investors (short and long term), it is having the desired impact.
> 
> As I said before, this Dubai vision is getting blurred by the day. hno:


I hope this is only temporary because now I am not ready to invest more to Dubai. People want to invest Dubai because they hope to get there better profits than their own country.


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## AltinD

IISinbadII said:


> Even those who have invested in the country for the 'long haul' need a reasonable rental return on their investment plus a raise each year to beat *inflation *figures.


... which is MAINLY caused by the rent increases in the first place. Think about that. :cheers:


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## DubaiMarina

*Apartment price falls expected in Dubai*

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Middle-East/United-Arab-Emirates/Price-History

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Middle-East/United-Arab-Emirates


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## i love dubai

No Altin, it is caused by falling value of the us dollar. If the dirham is delinked from the dollar there will be no, or little inflation.


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## mackie1964

What about buying few properties and waiting for 4 years while your money is tied up into the Dubai vision and boom(which is happening because of your money) , then finally when you get the keys, you find that you can only get 6 to 7 % return, please don't tell me about the capital appreciation as this could also get wiped out if it heads the way I think it might go:bash:


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## googly

i love dubai said:


> My concern is not the 5% rental cap, it is the new index which will set maximum figures for rent in each area, those figures will be released on the 15th of January


I am confident the figures will reflect current rental values. For example, in the Marina, I think rental returns for a 1 bed should be around 80K-120K. Lets see if i am right.


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## i love dubai

I certainly hope that you are right.


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## AITU

smussuw said:


> ^^ Isn't the rate like 1/20 in the UK? so the rent here should be around 1.5million/20 years = 75 thousands.


OK then - what about non - cash buyers in the UAE? If they are mortgaging and the interest rate is 7-8% over 15 years and they are in the process of buying now to let their home out. They have paid say a 15% downpayment and now the return is nowhere near going to meet mortgage repayments......and capital appreciation (with this new law) is nowhere near certain (as people may sell up)....whats the attraction? Investors will leave the market and go elsewhere where laws won't come in overnight..... 

I fear this could break the market here now. If the government had introduced this in 3 years time it could have worked but demand and supply needs to find its level naturally. Don't be surprised, unless the rents published on the 15th are in line with todays rates that this is reversed within 6 months


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## lovedubai

mackie1964 said:


> What about buying few properties and waiting for 4 years while your money is tied up into the Dubai vision and boom(which is happening because of your money) , then finally when you get the keys, you find that you can only get 6 to 7 % return, please don't tell me about the capital appreciation as this could also get wiped out if it heads the way I think it might go:bash:


If someone bought 'a few' properties 4 years ago and is now making 'only 6 to 7% return' on each of those properties at current prices, they are making a damn good return on the money invested. There is no way that the capital appreciation is going to be wiped out - but if you're that worried, sell up now and you'll make a fortune on what was originally paid. The Dubai market has been a gold mine for foreign investors - let's not pretend otherwise!


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## i love dubai

lovedubai said:


> If someone bought 'a few' properties 4 years ago and is now making 'only 6 to 7% return' on each of those properties at current prices, they are making a damn good return on the money invested. There is no way that the capital appreciation is going to be wiped out - but if you're that worried, sell up now and you'll make a fortune on what was originally paid. The Dubai market has been a gold mine for foreign investors - let's not pretend otherwise!


what about investors who just bought this year?


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## mackie1964

^^ I am talking about properties under construction and 3 to 4 years from completion and many people have paid nearly 90% of the price already. There are many examples.:nuts:

I was not talking about my self


----------



## High Times

i love dubai said:


> My concern is not the 5% rental cap, it is the new index which will set a maximum figure for rent in each area, those figures will be released on the 15th of January.


Yes, it will be interesting to see how they carve Dubai up into districts.

Bur Dubai, JBR, JLT, Dubai Marina etc.

I wonder if they will split Dubai Marina up into different price ranges. Now that would be interesting :badnews:


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## FWIW

Shhh! Don't say anything about the lower south side 'end' of Dubai Marina...
Don't wanna upset True Blue you know!

Think he'll have the last laugh when they rate that end the best part of DM!!!


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## jeetha

In my opinion…. I think law makers should leave this well alone for a while, it will find it's own GROUND…. soon enough. 

It’s too early to start chaos with rating and percentages. 
* * It’s Demand versus Supply. * *


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## i love dubai

googly said:


> I am confident the figures will reflect current rental values. For example, in the Marina, I think rental returns for a 1 bed should be around 80K-120K. Lets see if i am right.


I read the article again and it says that in al karama the rent is currently 100k and it is going to be 40k-70k so it is going to be lowered by at least 30k. The current rent for 1 bedroom in the marina is 90k-120k, I think it wil be 60k-90k or at the most 70k-100k


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## DubaiMarina

It will mean market crash. Why to buy AED 1 500 000 apartment if you will get about 5% net return aften all costs?


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## Dubai_Steve

Why are you all talking about 5% returns. Dubai is still providing one of the highest yielding properties in the world even at today's prices and made many investors very wealthy. Even though it maybe slowly cooling, still invest in Dubai if you can get a yield of 8% or more and don't have to wait too long for completion, simple as that. And don't worry about construction quality etc before handover, all that is normal and dealt with during snagging. Yield is all that matters, make sure that you can cover your mortgage reypaments and running costs and you will be laughing all the way to a happy early retirement. If you are relatively young, use gearing to increase your returns, borrow as much as you can and deposit as little as you can.


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## DubaiMarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> Why are you all talking about 5% returns.


- Agent will take money
- Tax will take money
- Maintenance charge will take money
- Renovations and furnitures will take money
- And time is also money 

I think 5% is realistic after new law. I hope I am wrong.


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## i love dubai

Dubai_Steve said:


> Why are you all talking about 5% returns. Dubai is still providing one of the highest yielding properties in the world even at today's prices and made many investors very wealthy. Even though it maybe slowly cooling, still invest in Dubai if you can get a yield of 8% or more and don't have to wait too long for completion, simple as that. And don't worry about construction quality etc before handover, all that is normal and dealt with during snagging. Yield is all that matters, make sure that you can cover your mortgage reypaments and running costs and you will be laughing all the way to a happy early retirement. If you are relatively young, use gearing to increase your returns, borrow as much as you can and deposit as little as you can.


Thats right for now but after the 15th of January no one knows what will happen.


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## Dubai_Steve

Agent fees, tax, maintenance etc. are all normal for any property owner. Dubai still offers higher % yield than most other places in the World and such fees still need to be paid elsewehere.

Calculate like for like, you will see Dubai still comes out on top for investors.

We will need to wait until the rental index comes out on the 15th to make sure of this. but I am sure the ranges will be very wide and allow for 8 to 10% yields still.

It would be worth looking at the rent that you could realistically get now (due to supply/demand) while you wait and then compare with the figures that are announced on the 15th.


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## agod

Ooops, this also throws a spanner in the works, of developers who offer rent guarantees.

Alan


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## Dubai_Steve

^^ not really, rent guarantees usually come from over pricing the units and paying it back to the buyer not from renting the unit to an end user.


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## IISinbadII

Some units have upgraded finish some don't, some have better views some don't, some are larger in size some small, some have extra maids/study rooms some don't and some have large terrace or private garden. How will the index factor in all this?


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## Dubai_Steve

^^ Hence the minimum and maximum ? 

Although I don't agree with this ridiculous idea. What if your unit is incredibly furnished and decorated, it may be worth paying extra rent for it if you can afford to do so. I think the range will have to be quite broad. Some units have small studies yet are classed as 1 bedroom etc. Some have huge kitchens and others a cooker in the corner of the living room. Even in the same building which will have a single star rating !


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## Wannaberich

Big shame about Google,didnt know that.I realise the Dubai goverment is looking at DSO long term but it would be really good if a large company opened up there and really got things kick started.As an investor there myself I want the area to do well of course.


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## glover

the arabic daily al-bayan is reporting this morning that the long anticipated condominium law has been signed into law by Sheik Mohammed!


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## googly

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Look. No one is saying that rents are cheap in Dubai. But rents are not the only reason for inflation. All they are asking is that *any cap, index or control should provide a decent return to the investor (based on the value of property) and allow a rise in rent based on the inflation figures for the year*. The Landlords should not be punished for all the evils in town.


Well said. I hope Bin Ghalita is listening.


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## jeetha

smussuw said:


> Go *Bin Ghalita*, my brother in law brother :banana::banana:


:badnews:


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## bizzybonita

UAE Foreign Investment Law to be ready in early 2008



The Federal Government of the UAE will be ratifying a new Foreign Investment Law for the country in early 2008. The impending legislation aims to streamline the inflow of investments into the United Arab Emirates, introduce transparency and the best possible conditions for developing an ideal investing clime. The UAE currently ranks among the top 15 global destinations for foreign direct investment.

The formulation of the law is proving to be complicated as each of the 7 emirates has its own yardsticks for regulating foreign investments in sectors like land ownership. For instance, Sharjah offers foreign nationals leasehold property ownership whereas in Dubai and Ajman, 100% foreign ownership is possible. Taking into account, conflicting elements like these, the UAE Federal Government seeks to provide investors ‘a common denominator, a standard law governing foreign investment.’ Also, the new law is expected to quadruple foreign funds in areas like ‘start-up’ enterprises.

The UAE is one of the most investor-friendly destinations in the world, as it is one of the lowest taxed countries, with zero corporate, income and sales taxes. 

At present, a foreign investor may choose to participate with up to 49% in a company formed in one of the structures open to foreign investors. Despite the requirement that the majority of shares must be held by UAE nationals, it is still looked upon as the easiest solution to carry out business in the UAE. Other available methods are the establishment of a branch or the use of commercial agency agreements. Special attention should also be paid to the possibilities offered by the Free Trade Zones where businesses are exempt from most requirements applicable in the regular UAE territory. 
(Courstey: www.government.ae)


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## bizzybonita

UAE tops list of investment friendly Arab countries 

In a 2006 survey by International Monetary Fund (IMF), the UAE topped the list of Arab countries most conducive for foreign investment. The country is currently at the 22nd position among the best economies of the world.

The UAE’s top ratings are partly due to its increased trade volume with several countries of the world, either directly or through the World Trade Organization (WTO). The country in fact, became the 70th member of the World Trade Organization’s (WTO) Information Technology Agreement recently.

A study of foreign direct investments (FDIs) within the country by the UAE Ministry of Economy shows that in 2006 FDIs grew by 10.8% to Dh68.63 billion as against Dh61.91 billion in 2005. 

The UAE economy’s growth rate of 9.4% is one of the highest in the world, asserts IMF. Investment in the domestic insurance sector amounted to Dh17,270 billion in 2006, out of which 57.1% was in private shares and bonds and 28.2% in assets. In 2007, the total number of insurance companies operating in the UAE was 48.

The private sector is believed to have played a crucial role in the raising the volume of investments in 2007, contributing 58% of total investments. Foreign trade during the year was 149% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) while the trade balance continues to be encouraging. Exports grew to Dh523 billion in 2006 from Dh430 billion in 2005. Oil was responsible for 41% of exports in 2006.


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## AltinD

was2103 said:


> Guys, Storm in a tea cup... Really.
> 
> I'm an investor and a resident. I can see that the market is spiralling out of control in terms of cost. This is predominantly because of investors that are not interested in the conditions of the work force; they just want to squeeze every penny out of their investments. And the investors are numerous rich folk from around the world that are here just for the returns, nothing else. Fine, but this model is not sustainable at all. The resource pool is finite. Proper consideration needs to be given to the occupants of the properties and residents of this country as they are technically the source of income for all of us. You wouldn’t milk a cow to death on your own farm would you? You might do it on someone else’s farm, but of-course this is ethically questionable.
> 
> I'm guessing that many of you do not live here, so let me paint a picture that I'm sure you have seen before but may not have understood.
> 
> As a professional at the peak of my career, I came here in 2005 and rented a 3 bed house about the size of a European house for 95K. That same property is on the market now for 200K and of-course I got pushed out ages ago to make way for the investor to extract his returns. I cannot afford that anymore and I am well above the average in terms of earnings here. The investor should have been happy with 10% on his investment, but the greedy sods keep adjusting their expectation to the market value of the properties, which could now be as much as 20% or more on their original investments.
> 
> Now, these new laws will most likely not apply to short term or furnished rentals and they are not likely to drastically adjust the yield of modern properties. They may have an impact on old non-freehold type properties like the Karama example that someone presented earlier (although I still believe that the figures presented are not real but exemplary)
> 
> I’m sure that supply and demand will eventually stabilize the rents but this is useless if the people that live and work here (voluntarily) can no longer afford it. To keep them here you need to protect them somehow. And the prices have already reached astronomical highs. It took the UK market yonks to reach it’s current highs and Dubai is already at par like for like.
> 
> International city is not an option for most working professionals, as the standard that they expect when they moved here is not met. And why should people that used to rent premium apartments on SZR now move to International city for the same rent. That’s a poor suggestion that lacks insight into this market.
> 
> The fact is that both supply and demand here are being driven by external factors and not parameters within this market. E.g. global audience for holiday homes, luxury holiday makers, successful corporations with deep pockets, rich investors looking for returns and the likes. The local economy is completely buried in this storm.
> 
> Rent control is good for the residents and this results in a sustainable investment for all of us. Remember that this is a controlled economy, rather a massive profitable corporation, not a true free market economy. That means that your money is safer here than anywhere else in the world. The Sheik / CEO has too much at stake in this project.
> 
> Sorry for ranting…



You don't have to feel sorry, for saying it as it really is. :applause:


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## Dubai_Steve

I agree that any investor that bought at prices a year or 2 ago or more should not complain. However if rent prices are forced to be lower Dubai will not see many more new investors as the yield will be lower than elsewhere in the world and prices will also soon be on the decline.


----------



## heatstor

All of this points to a major correction in the works in my opinion.

What I am baffled about is price increase in the past 3-4 months despite the problems due to high rentals.

In Dubai Marina, Emaar is now selling their serviced apartments in the Marina Mall project for over 2,500 psf

In Emirates City, Ajman prices have jumped from 300 psf to 400+ psf for residential unit and 650+ psf for office space.

In Business Bay, its really amazing where prices have gone from 1,200-1300psf to over 2,000 psf in the same time span.

Based on these price levels, even at 8-10% rental yield, it will remain expensive to rent in Dubai.


----------



## agod

Dubai Steve, I know that Guarantees are loaded into the price, and you only get back what you paid for in the first place, the point is with the cost of construction going up, any spare cash that would have been used for your Guarantee is being eaten up finnishing the project.

Now, the other worry is that if the developer is digging deep into his own pocket to finnish his building, and it starts to look unprofitable for them, and he now needs to set up an Escrow account, as well remember, the rents being capped and regulated, no labour and problems on selling the units because of these rules coming in, I think the jumping ship and doing runners, it is more likey to be them.

Alan


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## was2103

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Look. No one is saying that rents are cheap in Dubai. But rents are not the only reason for inflation. All they are asking is that *any cap, index or control should provide a decent return to the investor (based on the value of property) and allow a rise in rent based on the inflation figures for the year*. The Landlords should not be punished for all the evils in town.


OK, understood. But rent is by far the largest variable in my outgoings. All other services affected by inflation are nominal. The kids schooling, uninsured medical, and I can hardly think of any other large expense. Rent increases are responsible for more than 90% of my inflationary headaches this year and the last, the variable part being about 70K AED. This can make the difference between me staying or going.

If you live here, you understand.

I do not believe that these laws are unreasonable as they are beneficial measures for the longevity of the market. This market desperately needs consumers to buy and not just investors. That in itself will stabilize the economy / rents. So if you can make better returns elsewhere, fine go do it. But I would still bet there are not many places where you can. Especially if you are still buying / comparing with off-plan here in Dubai. there are still ample opportunities around, but as you are not on the ground here, it will be difficult for you to identify.


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## IISinbadII

^^I want to reassure you that many of us on this board love Dubai and want it to continue to flourish and become one of the best developed cities of the world. We also want the market to sustain for a decades to come. But when we hear news of caps, indexes and controls it worries us that it could cause damage to the property market and those investors who are here just to make money may actually pull out and go elsewhere...... resulting in a slowdown. 

We totally understand the rent problem. Without any doubt rents in Dubai are very high. That is why many are forced to live in Sharjah and other far off places. And something needs to be done about it. But the band-aid treatment of caps and indexes is a temporary solution. Such restrictions may even promote under-the-table deals and corruption. 

Many of the Freehold developments like Palm, BD, BB and Marina (among others) are for the executives and high end dwellers. Such areas should be exempted from the cap. On the other hand, one way to deal with the problem is for the government to offer mid-income housing at lower than market rates. Developments like the Garden Apartments (behind Ibn Batuta Mall). They can also promote private developers to build more projects like the Discovery Gardens in areas that are well situated in the New Dubai, close to shopping, SZR, Metro, business areas, etc. 

Also the Landlord's rights should also be protected. Saying things like they can appeal but don't have a chance to win leaves a bad impression. 8% return, is that too much to ask?


----------



## i love dubai

well said, I agree 100%


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## smussuw

luv2bebrown, i've marked all the greedy landlords, no go get'em all :rant:


----------



## googly

was2103 said:


> OK, understood. But rent is by far the largest variable in my outgoings.


The question is: why is the rent increasing so much? The answer: demand outpaces supply and construction costs are rising worldwide. So whats the solution? Increase supply (by giving incentives to investors) and ask people who cant afford the prices to move out of downtown and other expensive areas of the city. This is a worldwide trend in every major city of the world. Government subsidized housing should be for the poor only. 

Your statement is similar to someone in the US saying gas is the largest variable in my outgoings. The govt says well we cant do much cause oil is at $100/barrel. So what should we do then? Ask the govt to put a cap on oil prices? The solution is for people to consume less gas (try walking or biking) and to switch over to alternative fuels. Obviously the Oil cartel doesnt want to increase supply because they are an evil bunch (right smussuv?).

Whenever the govt intervenes in market affairs, it always causes more problems than it solves. Take the case of the Dirham. The govt has pegged it to the dollar but it has a totally different economy than the US. UAE wants to supress inflation, yet it keeps on decreasing interest rates (by following the US lead). This leads to higher inflation. I wonder which side the govt is on?

Finally, I feel for all the people living in UAE; 10% inflation is very high. However, when you hear of statements like a 70% increase in salaries this year for all govt. employees, all you can do is scratch your heads. A friend of mine just moved to Dubai this month with a 45K/month salary in a Bank. You can calculate yourself how much money he will be able to save, even after the high rental values. For all the people who have lower salaries, like i said above, they need to move to the suburbs as other people have done in other cities worldwide. 

You dont have to be a rocket scientist to know that all these govt. interventions will backfire. I just hope their isnt a market crash because small time investors like me will lose all our life savings. hno:


----------



## rexdmx

IISinbadII said:


> ^^I want to reassure you that many of us on this board love Dubai and want it to continue to flourish and become one of the best developed cities of the world. We also want the market to sustain for a decades to come. But when we hear news of caps, indexes and controls it worries us that it could cause damage to the property market and those investors who are here just to make money may actually pull out and go elsewhere...... resulting in a slowdown.
> 
> We totally understand the rent problem. Without any doubt rents in Dubai are very high. That is why many are forced to live in Sharjah and other far off places. And something needs to be done about it. But the band-aid treatment of caps and indexes is a temporary solution. Such restrictions may even promote under-the-table deals and corruption.
> 
> Many of the Freehold developments like Palm, BD, BB and Marina (among others) are for the executives and high end dwellers. Such areas should be exempted from the cap. On the other hand, one way to deal with the problem is for the government to offer mid-income housing at lower than market rates. Developments like the Garden Apartments (behind Ibn Batuta Mall). They can also promote private developers to build more projects like the Discovery Gardens in areas that are well situated in the New Dubai, close to shopping, SZR, Metro, business areas, etc.
> 
> Also the Landlord's rights should also be protected. Saying things like they can appeal but don't have a chance to win leaves a bad impression. 8% return, is that too much to ask?


the problem is so far there are no incentives for developers to build there because they also have to make money

the price of the raw materials including labour are spirralling out of control...that should be capped as well...


----------



## i love dubai

If they can blame the rising cost of building material on rising rent figures, they would too. 
This is another proof that the inflation is due to tha fall of the us dollar and the linking of the dirham to it.
It is as simple as that, the dirham is under estimated and if it was not linked to the dollar you will find a much higher exchange rate, and stronger dirham means cheaper import and since most of the goods in the UAE are imported there will be no inflation.


----------



## FWIW

i love dubai said:


> If they can blame the rising cost of building material on rising rent figures, they would too.
> This is another proof that the inflation is due to tha fall of the us dollar and the linking of the dirham to it.
> It is as simple as that, the dirham is under estimated and if it was not linked to the dollar you will find a much higher exchange rate, and stronger dirham means cheaper import and since most of the goods in the UAE are imported there will be no inflation.


This is looking at it in a short term view; I am now thinking about what will happen when oil runs out. 

If Dubai wants to be the worlds #1 holiday destination, then the local currency needs to be weaker. Otherwise only very rich tourists will come to Dubai.

I have come to the conclusion that a weak dollar = weak aed = High oil price = long term future prosperity for majority of uae citizens built from tourism and financial services.


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## smussuw

^^ or weak dollar = high inflation = citizens suffer


----------



## Dubai_Steve

More housing supply = lower rents = citizens happy

Problem is construction is taking twice as long as thought.

rent caps => reduced rental yield => less investors => less developer sales => less supply => citizens happy (Still rent caps) but slow progress and missing long term vision targets

Solution is probably to have rent caps for a short time only (until supply has increased a bit more from existing off-plan units under construction) then scrap them.


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## glover

most american cities i know have rent control, usually around 4-5% per year. and if you want to sell your apartment, the existing tenant has the first right to buy.


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## luv2bebrown

id like to know from a lot of property investors here what kind of occupany rates they are getting on their rentals.

everytime i search for properties, i see a ton of international city apartments being offered... price has gone up from aroudn 30k to 40k in the last year and a half... but why are there so many on offer then?

what are the occupancy rates on Dubai Marina properties like JBR? is it possible to negotiate rents significantly below the prices being offered? how desperate are say JBR owners to get tenants into their apartments?


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## dubaiprojects

luv2bebrown said:


> id like to know from a lot of property investors here what kind of occupany rates they are getting on their rentals.
> 
> everytime i search for properties, i see a ton of international city apartments being offered... price has gone up from aroudn 30k to 40k in the last year and a half... but why are there so many on offer then?
> 
> what are the occupancy rates on Dubai Marina properties like JBR? is it possible to negotiate rents significantly below the prices being offered? how desperate are say JBR owners to get tenants into their apartments?


In my case, I had to give my 1 bed in marina(MC) for 95k yearly basis, I wanted 110-120 k but after a month of advertising, I decided to lower the demand.


----------



## bizzybonita

Real estate project launches show signs of slowing down

New Dubai property launches are few and far between these days. The new escrow account law which controls development funds during the construction process, spiralling construction costs and tougher lending conditions for project finance, have all contributed to the slowdown. Yet demand remains strong and off-plan selling has shifted to the Northern Emirates

Indeed, Dubai's decision last summer to put the breaks on developers through the imposition of an escrow account system - as typically required by law in many global real estate markets - has been a boon for developers in Ras Al Khaimah, Umm Al Quwain and Ajman. 

Some developers have chosen to launch their next off-plan properties in these Northern Emirates on the back of their successful (i.e. sold-out) projects in Dubai. However, anybody deciding to invest in these markets should be aware that they do not benefit from the protection of the Dubai escrow account law and that developers have unrestricted access to their funds during the construction process. 

It is also undoubtedly true that spiralling construction material prices are dissuading developers from starting more projects in Dubai. The cost of steel rebar, for example, which is a crucial material for any reinforced concrete building, is up by no less than 30 per cent in the past two months. 


Business plans
Dubai developers all have to make their business plans work by balancing the cost of construction against the selling price. And with building material prices at these levels the selling prices may be insufficient to justify construction. 

At the same time, project finance has become more expensive and harder to raise courtesy of the global credit crunch and almost every local developer will be looking to gear their project to achieve a higher rate-of-return on equity employed; if finance costs more then the viability of a proposed project may shift significantly. 

That is not to say that new projects have stopped entirely. This week saw the launch of the Isla Moda from Dubai Infinity Holdings, a fashion themed development of 400 villas on an island that is part of The World. But Dubai real estate is now more focused on smaller, niche projects. Villas from Mazaya in Dubailand is another example. 


Consolidation
It also has to be said that Dubai now has so many real estate projects in-progress that perhaps there has to come a time when enough is enough, and developers just have to get on with building out their existing portfolio of developments. 

Certainly off-plan buyers who have waited patiently during longer and longer delays - ameliorated only by the knowledge that prices have been rising strongly in the meantime - can not be expected to wait forever. 

At the highest levels the word is that 'delivering the product' is the mantra for 2008 and so new launches will go on hold. On the other hand, the good news is that demand for Dubai property remains robust and that the capacity to absorb new projects is confounding the sceptics, so far.


----------



## jacobdxb

I have noticed, that although there is 100.000 of condos/apartments under construction in Dubai, there is actually not a lot for sale at any given point in time. If you study Gulf News and Alineah and Better Homes carefully over a few weeks, you will also notice that a lot of the apartments offered are essentially the same, but being offered from different agents. 

So my question to you guys is:

- Are people holding on to their apartments? 
- Or are a lot of them being sold without advertising? 

Also noticed that most of the units on offer are either:
a) the ones with the worst views
b) the most expensive ones like 3-4 bedrooms or huge penthouses the size of 4000-5000 sqft.

Another question arises:
-where are all the units with the best views? full seaviews, top floors, etc? Are these all being (re)sold without advertising? Or are people holding on to them? Or where they bought for investment for renting out or personal use as a holiday home/live in?

It seems to me, that Dubai is indeed alive and kicking...

Any comments welcome...


----------



## IISinbadII

jacobdxb said:


> Or are people holding on to them? Or where they bought for investment for renting out or personal use as a holiday home/live in?
> 
> It seems to me, that Dubai is indeed alive and kicking...


ALL of the above.


----------



## jacobdxb

So how do I dertermine if I have a good deal? I mean, lots of adverts are old, so pricing have changed meanwhile, and the agent just keeps pushing you to buy whatever they have on stock (crap units) at a much higher price? Do one need to be in Dubai to catch a decent deal or is it similarly difficult even when being there?


----------



## IISinbadII

jacobdxb said:


> So how do I dertermine if I have a good deal? I mean, lots of adverts are old, so pricing have changed meanwhile, and the agent just keeps pushing you to buy whatever they have on stock (crap units) at a much higher price? Do one need to be in Dubai to catch a decent deal or is it similarly difficult even when being there?


First you should know what you want (best units are hard to find).

Most current adds are in Gulfnews. This will give you an idea of offerings and prices. You will also know which agents have the most units in the location you desire. You can search print adds on-line. Here is the link:
http://www.gnads4u.com/properties

Try to work with more than one agents at a time. Agents are very busy people and some are passive. Find people who have the time and would actively search for you. Some agents have a list of offered properties that they share with each other (via e-mail). But avoid too many agents (running after the same unit) as this could bump up the price. Give offers, negociate and be willing to fly in at a short notice. Remember it is hard to buy prime property in the re-sale market.

Have you thaught about buying directly from the developer as this is much easier and could save you money and time.


----------



## Imre

Press Release

*Real Estate Regulatory Agency awards first registration licence for property exhibitions*

International Property Show 2008 to be the first exhibition to adopt key policies in adherence to requirements set by Dubai Land Department affiliate

January 13, 2008

Strategic Marketing and Exhibitions, organizers of the International Property Show 2008, announced that this year’s show has been awarded with the first registration licence for property exhibitions by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA), at a press conference held today (January 13, 2008) at the Dubai Land Department offices. During the press conference, Eng. Marwan bin Ghallaita, CEO, RERA, handed the registration certificate to Dawood Al Shezawi, Managing Director, Strategic Marketing and Exhibitions.

The certificate confirms the registration of the International Property Show 2008 within the jurisdiction of RERA, which will ensure that transactions within the event will be conducted in accordance with all the rules and regulations set by the agency. This involves taking necessary steps towards achieving a clear agreement between the two parties upon all the terms, and in the confidence of the participating developers.

Commenting on the agreement, Marwan bin Ghallaita said, “Through the birth of RERA and the continuous support from the government and the Dubai Land Department, we are fully dedicated towards playing a vital role in streamlining Dubai’s real estate processes and other related matters. Our aim is to implement a sustained effort to organize, improve and develop the emirate’s property market. As a first step, we highly advice all investors not to communicate or sign agreements with any developer, broker, or property insurance firms until they are presented with a proof that the company is registered with RERA.”

“Exhibitions are considered to be a primary factor in the development of the property industry, which is why we strongly support events such as the ‘International Property Show 2008’. This agreement reiterates the strong bond between RERA, Strategic Marketing and Exhibitions and the Dubai Land Department, whose support for the event’s previous editions has played a major role in the success it has witnessed through the years. Through the significant presence of RERA in this event, we are looking into gaining a strong support for the implementation of Law # 8, which also seeks to regulate commercial advertisements for unregistered properties and projects, “added bin Ghallaita.

Under RERA’s policies, developers are obliged to complete standard agreement forms, which will disclose accurate data such as buyer's information, the details and amount of the property being purchased, the mortgage plan and updates on change of ownership. This information will then be used by RERA to regulate the buying and selling of real estate in the emirate, and will be safely registered in a secure database.

Dawood Al Shezawi, Managing Director, Strategic Marketing and Exhibitions, said, “As the first property exhibition to enter an agreement with RERA, the International Property Show has proven yet again its significant contribution to the development of the UAE’s real estate sector. With this newest development, we are expecting an intensified presence of regional and international developers and high potential investors this year, in addition to a major boost in the value of closed deals within the event. We recognise the immense need to keep abreast of complex regulatory changes in Dubai's property market and be aware of the upcoming developments planned for the local property sector, which renders a closer relationship to official bodies such as RERA of the essence.”

International Property Show 2008, scheduled to run from February 17 - 19, will feature prime real estate projects from across the globe, ranging from commercial properties to high and low-density residential developments, distinctive leisure and shopping centres as well as upscale resorts and hotels. Since its launch in 2005, the property exhibition has been recognized as a powerful networking platform, which attracts high net-worth investors and leading players from the local, regional, and international property markets and related industries.

*About RERA:*
Under the patronage of H.H. Sheikh Mohammad bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, RERA has been created to oversee key regulations in the property sector, including the recent directives on trust accounts and real estate brokers, and the responsibilities of Home Owners Associations (HOA). As part of the LD’s current major reformation, the department is also set to create two additional agencies under its wing to keep pace with the strong flow of freehold property registrations, and to further improve the regulatory framework of the emirate. The registration mirrors the close relationship the LD shares with Strategic Marketing and Exhibitions, having been a strategic partner to previous editions of the International Property Show.


*About International Property Show 2008:*
The International Property Show is the region’s comprehensive public and trade exhibition for the international and regional property market. Organized by Strategic Marketing & Exhibitions, the exhibition will bring together international and regional exhibitors, property developers, financiers, real estate agents and consultants, designers and others involved in the real estate industry in the UAE and the Middle East and prime real estate markets in the world. Last year’s edition was a huge success with multi billion dirhams worth of deals conducted over the three day run and more than 18,764 visitors from 70 countries, with a majority of 60 per cent from the corporate sector.


----------



## googly

AltinD said:


> Try *NEW YORK CITY*, San Francisco as well.


Thanks for the info. It allowed me to do some research on the topic. Here are my findings: 

"The rent control program [in New York] generally applies to residential buildings constructed before February 1947 in municipalities that have not declared an end to the postwar rental housing emergency....For an apartment to be under rent control, the tenant must have been living in that apartment continuously since before July 1, 1971." (Source: http://www.dhcr.state.ny.us/ora/pubs/html/orafac1.htm) 

Rent Control "remain in effect or have been reintroduced in some cities with large tenant populations, such as New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Washington, DC. In recent years, rent control in some cities, such as Boston and Cambridge, Massachusetts, has been ended by state ballot."

ARGUMENTS IN FAVOUR OF RENT CONTROL: 
1. It is necessary to prevent landlords from imposing rent increases that force key-workers or vulnerable people to leave an area. 
2.It has been contended that housing is an inalienable positive human right that equals or exceeds the property rights of landlords.
3.Income tax/Property tax codes often provide benefits for housing owners, and rent control allows tenants to share in some of those benefits. [Not applicable to Dubai]

ARGUMENTS AGAINST RENT CONTROL:
1. Price ceilings can create shortages, reduce quality and deter investment. 
2. It may not be effective at lowering rents because the Rent board may be influenced by landlords resulting in higher than market value increases in rents. 
3. A reduction in supply and consequent shortages will lead to less affordable housing. Tenants have serious difficulty finding housing, so they are seriously disadvantaged if they must move.
4. It violates the property rights of the landlords. It may reduce the resale value of affected property.
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_control)


Speaking in 1989, Vietnam's Foreign Minister Nguyen Co Thach said: "The Americans couldn't destroy Hanoi, but we have destroyed our city by very low rents. We realized it was stupid and that we must change policy."(http://www.econlib.org/Library/Enc/RentControl.html)


----------



## googly

bizzybonita said:


> Real estate project launches show signs of slowing down


This combined with Rent Control/Index could have a devastating affect on supply and property prices.


----------



## FWIW

Great research googly! Really appreciate it.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

*Sharjah government employees get salary rise*

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/General/10181874.html

Sharjah goverment follow Dubai Goverment. Definitely good news for the 16 k employees but less good news regarding confronting inflation.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Sharjah government adjusted its salaries to the federal government and not Dubai Government. Dubai Government last salary raise was on 2007.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

smussuw said:


> ^^ Sharjah government adjusted its salaries to the federal government and not Dubai Government. Dubai Government last salary raise was on 2007.


Hi smussuw

Thanks for the correction - I am sure you are right. 

I thought the 70% salary hike for Dubai goverment employees was to take effect from Jan 2008 ? Is it possible there will be another salery raise regarding Dubai goverment employees for 2008 ?


----------



## smussuw

^^ No the salary hike for Dubai Government was for 2007 along with a new Human Resouce law which restructured all the jobs in Dubai Government. The minimum hike was 20% but some got much more than that with the restructure.

No one knows if there will be a salary raise but I know for sure that most of the employees weren't satisfied at all especially when you take into consideration Abu Dhabi which doubled the salaries of their employees.

I would suspect that they might increase the salaries of Dubai Police force though because it is very sensitive when it comes to the comparison between the different Emirates and Dubai wouldn't want to lose its police force because of that. The salary range for Dubai Police is from 20k for Lieutenant to 45k for Brigadier comparing to 28k to 110k for Abu Dhabi which is a huge difference.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

smussuw said:


> ^^ No the salary hike for Dubai Government was for 2007 along with a new Human Resouce law which restructured all the jobs in Dubai Government. The minimum hike was 20% but some got much more than that with the restructure.
> 
> No one knows if there will be a salary raise but I know for sure that most of the employees weren't satisfied at all especially when you take into consideration Abu Dhabi which doubled the salaries of their employees.
> 
> I would suspect that they might increase the salaries of Dubai Police force though because it is very sensitive when it comes to the comparison between the different Emirates and Dubai wouldn't want to lose its police force because of that. The salary range for Dubai Police is from 20k for Lieutenant to 45k for Brigadier comparing to 28k to 110k for Abu Dhabi which is a huge difference.


Interesting and thank you for explaining this. Off course the employees feel they should get the same performing the same job. As an example - are any of the policemen emirates or from abroad. The next question I am embrassed to ask - are the salery range you mention per month or per year ? I take it as per year !!!

So we can expect the rents are going up even more. It is really hard to get out of this sprial of inflation


----------



## AITU

Morten_Denmark said:


> Interesting and thank you for explaining this. Off course the employees feel they should get the same performing the same job. As an example - are any of the policemen emirates or from abroad. The next question I am embrassed to ask - are the salery range you mention per month or per year ? I take it as per year !!!
> 
> So we can expect the rents are going up even more. It is really hard to get out of this sprial of inflation


^^Those figures are per thousand dirham per month, tax free of course


----------



## heatstor

^^
Yes per month 

If I adjust for tax and round out to get a US Gross Yearly Salary equivalent, AED30K/month come out to roughly $125,000.
Pretty impressive for a Government job with a lot of other perks.

Cheers.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

AITU said:


> ^^Those figures are per thousand dirham per month, tax free of course


Ok - but this is quite decent wages I think. I actually thought it was much lower. Off course a rent increase of eg 20% would take a good bite of such a salery.


----------



## i love dubai

Is that what smussuw was refering to when he said that the people are suffering? I would like to suffer too, Am I allowed to?


----------



## smussuw

^^ I was referring to Indians and Pakistani who are the majority of the work force. The majority have a salary below 5000 AED a month.



Morten_Denmark said:


> Interesting and thank you for explaining this. Off course the employees feel they should get the same performing the same job. As an example - are any of the policemen emirates or from abroad. The next question I am embrassed to ask - are the salery range you mention per month or per year ? I take it as per year !!!
> 
> So we can expect the rents are going up even more. It is really hard to get out of this sprial of inflation


Officers are usually Emirati nationals while lower rank are mostly non-Emiratis. A Lieutenant is someone who is a bachelor degree fresh graduate while lower ranks don't have degrees and obviously get lower salaries.

Those ranges per month as heatstor has said !!! 



Morten_Denmark said:


> Ok - but this is quite decent wages I think. I actually thought it was much lower. Off course a rent increase of eg 20% would take a good bite of such a salery.


Most of the Emiratis don't live in rented house although many do but obviously the ones who suffer the most aren't Emiratis. Beside most of the people are not working in the government.


----------



## i love dubai

oh, I see


----------



## AltinD

... and Emiratis very, very rarely rent apartments, so it has not much influence on the level or rents.


----------



## jeetha

.......so are we all contented…and law marker go easy on investors, can we not have a new law... so quick. 

Let’s get used to the old one first. I haven’t even got… grips of that law. Please do not paste another one on it. 
Let's learn to walk first.


----------



## i love dubai

Anyway I red that on the 15th Rera is expected to announce some by-laws on the tenant-landlord relationship, nothing about a release of an index, except that it is a project they hope to finish by the end of the year.

Rera to unveil new rental market rules 
By Shakir Husain, Staff Reporter
Published: January 14, 2008, 00:54

Dubai: The Dubai government is working on a number of plans to bring order to the property rental market, which tenants say leaves them exposed to the whims of landlords and real estate agents.

New rules being prepared by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) will determine how much rents landlord can charge in different localities and what facilities tenants can expects when they rent properties. 

*Rera is expected to announce some by-laws on the tenant-landlord relationship tomorrow.*
Other issues such as developing a rating system for various types of residential buildings may take several months.

It will enable Rera to rate buildings the way hotels are rated in various categories, the agency's chief executive officer Marwan Bin Ghalaita told Gulf News. 

*"This is a project that we hope to finish by the end of the year. There are a lot of factors to consider," he said.*
Dubai has completed a survey of different communities and the prevailing rents there. An index with a minimum and maximum rent limit for various localities will be announced soon to guide new residents on how much they should be paying for their properties.

"Before going to a place you will have a sense how much that area will cost in rent. The real estate agent will not be able to fool you because you will have the index (as guidance)," Bin Ghalaita said, adding that the community rent index will bring transparency to the rental market.

The government has issued an order barring landlord from raising rents for two years and the hike has been capped at five per cent after that. Earlier the rent cap was set at seven per cent.

High property rents are complicating the UAE's efforts to contain inflation, which is about 10 per cent.

Increasing its involvement in the property market, Rera yesterday for the first time registered an industry exhibition. Strategic Marketing and Exhibitions, the organiser of next month's International Property Show, said transactions at the event will be conducted in accordance the rules set by Rera.

"Our aim is to implement a sustained effort to organise, improve and develop the emirate's property market. As a first step, we advice all investors not to communicate or sign agreements with any developer, broker, or property insurance firms until they are presented with a proof that the company is registered with Rera," Bin Ghalaita said.

:banana:I knew it, such law has no place in Dubai.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Note the use of the word guide and not cap.


----------



## i love dubai

Exactly, (an index to guide new residents on how much they should be paying), thats a big change from the previous announcement.


----------



## Krazy

so where's the rent index?


----------



## Imre

"ON HOLD"


----------



## rexdmx

^^ as always


----------



## High Times

Obviously smussuw told his uncle Bin Ghalata to chill on the index situation cause the natives down at SSC were getting restless and considering a max exudeos of Dubai which would cause the UAE to declare itself bankrupt.

Way to go Bin Ghalata. :banana:


----------



## i love dubai

Those are the by-laws we all have been waitnig for :banana:

Business 

Real Estate Property 


Rera to regulate advertising by developers 
By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter
Published: October 15, 2007, 23:03


Dubai: A by-law will be issued in Dubai to dictate how property developers advertise in the media, according to the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), a body working under Dubai Land Department to regulate the property sector.

Under the regulation, which is expected to be issued in two weeks, adverts for developers, especially sales of their specific real estate projects, will be required to display details of the company's Rera registration number, the escrow account used to receive payments and the registration details of the agent overseeing the sale.

The developer issuing the advert will also have to first receive Rera permission to develop and sell units at a particular project. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Although Rera did not reveal details of punishment non-compliance, Rera's CEO Marwan Bin Galita said both developers and media outlets would be held responsible for printing adverts which did display the necessary information or were issued by unregistered companies. 

Design: Real estate regulator unveils new logo

Rera has revealed its first official logo created by Moosa Al Halyan, who also formed the logo for Dubai Metro, the Rera design reflects the importance of the creek to Dubai, while the blocks form the letter D in English and Arabic, the first letter of the emirate.


----------



## googly

New rent law to tackle disputes 
By Saifur Rahman, Business News Editor
Published: January 15, 2008, 22:20


Dubai: The Dubai Government will soon announce a tenancy law that will redefine the relationship between tenant and landlord, manage the rent disputes and put in place a comprehensive legal framework for Dubai's growing residential rental market, a top government official said on Tuesday.

Currently, the Rents Committee settles disputes through an informal arbitration system which is expected to be replaced by the new law.

His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, has approved the tenancy law which is expected to be announced soon, Gulf News has learnt. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"All issues related to the rents, tenancy and landlord-tenant disputes will be addressed by the new law," Mohammad Sultan Thani, assistant director-general of the Dubai Land Department, told Gulf News on Tuesday. "His Highness has already approved the law, which we will be issued soon."

Rising rents have been one of the biggest concerns of the nearly 85 per cent of expatriates among Dubai's 1.44 million population - the majority of whom live in rental units and are subject to the mercy of the landlords. In many instances, rents have been hiked rampantly over the last few years, straining the landlord-tenant relationship. 

On the rise

As a result, the number of rental disputes has continued to pile up. This has prompted the government, which customarily promotes the free market economy, to intervene and introduce a 15 per cent rent cap in 2005. This was cut to seven per cent for 2007 and five per cent for 2008.

The new law will also specify rules of subletting, bachelor accommodation and other social aspects.

It is however, unclear if the rent cap will be regulated through the new law. The rent cap has been issued through a Rulers' Decree and has been periodically updated every year.

Meanwhile, Thani said nearly 17,000 people have registered their properties under the freehold Property Registration Law issued in 2006 and received their title deeds. "Of these, 10,900 own apartments while 6,095 are owners of villas," Thani said.

"So far Dubai, the Land Department has registered 72,000 units since the department was set up in the 1960s, while last year, we have registered 11,000."

He said the new law will strengthen Dubai's property market, which has seen an explosive growth since expatriates were allowed to own property in 2002.

All existing residential units and freehold apartments and villas for rent will come under the law. 

Currently, all the new homeowners sign a common community declaration issued by the master developer that guides the rental and subletting activities.


----------



## High Times

*Rain in Dubai*

I dont believe it's raining in Dubai again.

I'm really not happy about this, I am gonna get RERA to make a law or index or cap on the level of rain permitted in dubai. Its just not fair.


----------



## i love dubai

The word index is beginning to scare me, I was checking out the downtown dubai forum and found THE INDEX building and I thought that this name should be changed.


----------



## AltinD

^^ Do you mean the name of the building? It was already changed ... it used to be No1 Central Park before.

But don't worry, another "Index" is comming, not far from it, just alongside SZR.


----------



## i love dubai

:shocked: not a good name for investors


----------



## AltinD

^^ As "bad" as "speed" is for drivers.


----------



## mackie1964

*Taxes just keep coming*

"Kindly be advised that Sharjah Municipality imposed an additional tax of 5% on all hotel revenues and as a result we are bind to start charging our customers 10% municipality tax & 10% service charges on all incurred invoices effective 01st March 2008"


----------



## Imre

yes, e.g. Marina Diamond 2 , 2006-2007 

chiller charge (AC) 
studio, 200 dhs/month
1 b/r, 350 dhs/month
2b/r, 450 dhs/month
shop,600 dhs/month 

I paid with the maintenance by 2 cheques


----------



## mackie1964

Yes but this still under AED 12 /sqft or just above :cheers

For 1 bedded room--------------> (350*12)/750 + 6 = 11.6 AED

And they are making very good money from this !


----------



## mikeysmyth

*Who is the best Short Term Rental Agent in Dubai*

I want to place my Apartment in the Dubai Marina on short term rent - say daily or weekly or monthly. Not any longer.

Who is the best agent in Dubai who can quickly and efficiently provide such a service? 

Your experiences with the Estate AG=gents would be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## bizzybonita

if the prices going down at Dubai ( it will be miracle )


----------



## mackie1964

mikeysmyth said:


> I want to place my Apartment in the Dubai Marina on short term rent - say daily or weekly or monthly. Not any longer.
> 
> Who is the best agent in Dubai who can quickly and efficiently provide such a service?
> 
> Your experiences with the Estate AG=gents would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


I used Mydubaistay.com to rent in the Marina, they provide a good service.


----------



## Imre

mackie1964 said:


> Yes but this still under AED 12 /sqft or just above :cheers
> 
> For 1 bedded room--------------> (350*12)/750 + 6 = 11.6 AED
> 
> And they are making very good money from this !



mine is 13.4 AED, because the size is just 572 sqft.


----------



## mackie1964

Don't Worry, once I establish my new company maintaining and servicing towers within the Marina, I will reduce this for you to below 10/11 AED. :lol:

You have the power to give us the contract..........oh no you have sold already :lol:

I will speak to Dubai Steve to see if we can give you some discount for Goldcrest


----------



## dubaiprojects

Imre said:


> Dubai Marina and the JLT area, the total maintenance will be apr 26 dhs/sqft/year soon. (incl. the A/C fee as well)


Thats bad news. I am paying now 12 aed per sqft which is like std now in marina. I wonder which building in marina charging less than 10?

So that means if you have a flat with 2000 sq ft you would end up paying 52000 aed per year, thats equal to a 1 bed rent in in intnl city.

Cheers


----------



## mackie1964

Emaar Properties are the only ones charging above 10 I think.

The Diamonds, Jewels, Timeplace............etc 6 to 8 AED/sqft.


----------



## dubaiprojects

mackie1964 said:


> Emaar Properties are the only ones charging above 10 I think.
> 
> The Diamonds, Jewels, Timeplace............etc 6 to 8 AED/sqft.


Are you sure? 

Can any one living in Jewels and diamond confirm about their serv charges rate for 1 bed??
Cheers


----------



## Morten_Denmark

dubaiprojects said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Can any one living in Jewels and diamond confirm about their serv charges rate for 1 bed??
> Cheers


As you prob know JBR is 9.5 Aed


----------



## mackie1964

Imre lives in Diamond II and he pays AED 6 + Air Con, see above.
TB at the Jewles discussed this with us before.
Timeplace, I have a contract here.
Keep up:lol:


----------



## Imre

what is the chiller charge (AC) in the JBR?


----------



## mackie1964

Imre said:


> what is the chiller chage (AC) in the JBR?


Here is your chance for an easy money making business Imre.:cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ huh? How can Imre provide cheap chilled air :lol:


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ huh? How can Imre provide cheap chilled air :lol:


I mean the new Law and being able to bid for contracts to maintain the towers. He will have to be in competition with you and I :banana:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Imre said:


> what is the chiller charge (AC) in the JBR?


Dont ask me questions I cant answer  - the apartments are rented out - I have been there 5 minutes only. Tenants pays this. I only pay the maintenance fee.


----------



## High Times

smussuw, i am confused now,

When i posted this



High Times said:


> Ahlien smussuw,
> 
> Your right, Dubai doesn't have to be expensive, but your ruler "wants it to be expensive". He is trying to create a 7 star tourist resort and tax haven in the desert. A playground for the worlds wealthy folk.
> 
> The benefits of this to Emiratis is a healthy economy for generations to come along with less dependence on oil reserves.
> 
> His vision for his country and his people is worthy of great respect in my view. If only western leaders had the the same vision and commitment for their people.


You post this;



smussuw said:


> I don't see any commitment for his people. It is only a commitment for his wealth. Most of the Emiratis are NOT satisfied.
> 
> The reasons u've stated answer why wealthy people should go to Dubai. It doesnt say why Dubai should be expensive.


Now you post this.



smussuw said:


> Jan 17, 2008 - 07:44 -
> 
> WAM WAM Dubai, Jan. 17th, 2008 (WAM) - Vice President and Prime Minister of UAE and Ruler of Dubai His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum has ordered construction of 40,000 villas for the citizens in need of family houses in different areas of the country.
> 
> Sheikh Mohammed also instructed a 100 percent increase in the social assistance allocations for the Ministry of Social Affairs to become Dh 2.2 billion. The decision stems from Sheikh Mohammed's keenness to provide decent living standards to the citizens benefiting from social aid programme.
> 
> Sheikh Mohammed issued directives to the Minister of State for Financial and Industrial Affairs to set aside a budget of Dh 15 billion to implement the villas construction project in 3 to 4 years.
> 
> During a tour made today to the central and eastern zones of the country, Sheikh Mohammed revealed that a cabinet reshuffle will be made next month.


It's a tough job your man Sheik Mo has there. hno:


----------



## smussuw

^^ Well, yea, it got better in the past couple of weeks but it isn't enough. He never cease to amaze me though when the situation get really desperate.

You missed this post 


smussuw said:


> ^^ With this and the union weddings, over 1500 Emirati has benefited and each got 70,000 AED in less than 2 months.
> 
> On another note Sheikh Mohammed ordered that the number of accepted applications for the housing free interest loans should be doubled to 3600 application annually. Hopefully this will end up the problem of housing financing considering that the number of applicants is way less than that (as far as I know) reducing the time to get the approval from 4 years to 2 years now and would probably lower to months later when all the previous applicants get the approval.
> 
> What should be dealt with now is the number of land plots being distributed annually. Hopefully with those new orders the problem will be solved.


----------



## High Times

smussuw said:


> ^^ Well, yea, it got better in the past couple of weeks but it isn't enough. He never cease to amaze me though when the situation get really desperate.


Yeh your right, He should buy you all a gallardo too right, hno:

I'm just kidding with you man, 

I agree with what you were saying regarding the Arabic language and culture slowly dissapearing. This should be avioded at all costs IMO.


----------



## DubaiMarina

*No transfer fee on resale of property*










*'No need' to pay resale fees*
Buyers in Dubai’s secondary property market shouldn't have to pay a fee to developers, despite some imposing charges of up to 3%.


*No transfer fee on resale of property *
by Parag Deulgaonkar on Saturday,January 19,2008 

Buyers in the secondary property market do not have to pay a transfer fee to developers, a senior official has confirmed.


They only need to have their sales title registered with Dubai’s Lands Department, he said, in an effort to remove confusion over transfer procedures.


Some developers have wrongly been charging a fee to transfer a property from the current owner to a new one. Typically this charge was one to three per cent of the original developer’s price.

“There is no need to pay any transfer fee to master developers or sub-developers for secondary sales,” said Mohammed Sultan Thani, the department’s director of development and marketing administration. “All the parties need to do is come and register their sales titles with us. There is still ignorance among people – they think it takes a long time to complete all the formalities.

“All they have to bring is a no-objection certificate from the developer, which costs Dh500. They then pay a one per cent transfer fee to the department.”

Registration of properties provided by the government or purchased through the private housing programme are exempt from the fees.

In a separate development, Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) has awarded the first registration licence to Strategic Marketing and Exhibitions, organisers of the International Property Show 2008. The event is due to be held from February 17 to 19.

The certificate will ensure transactions within the property show will be conducted according to rules set by the agency. “All real estate events at which properties are sold will have to obtain permission from us this year,” said Rera CEO Marwan bin Ghallaita.

“Our aim is to implement a sustained effort to organise, improve and develop the emirate’s property market. As a first step we advise all investors to avoid signing agreements with any developer, broker, or property insurance firms until they see proof that the company is registered with Rera.”

Developers will submit standard agreement forms. They must disclose buyer information, the details and cost of the property being purchased, the mortgage plan and updates on changes of ownership. These details will be held on a secure database and will be used to regulate the market. 

http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=1183


----------



## HarryKane

DubaiMarina said:


> *No transfer fee on resale of property *
> by Parag Deulgaonkar on Saturday,January 19,2008
> 
> Buyers in the secondary property market do not have to pay a transfer fee to developers, a senior official has confirmed.


Does this mean I can claim a refund on fees I have already paid? I doubt it.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I am not sure I understand this, some previous contracts actually stated that a fee should be payable to the developer to transfer contracts BEFORE completion. For example, Marina Heights Tower.


----------



## rexdmx

Essa said:


> guys i have purchased an apartment in jvs and another one is emirates city. im planning to sell one and keep the other one. i cant make up my mind which one to keep.


difficult for you to sell any for now...jvs is literally just sand for now and EC still has some way before its resale market booms..


----------



## Imre

Imre said:


> Standpoint Tower 1 (Burj Dubai Downtown area), launch prices around 3000 dhs/sqft
> 
> studio 1.5 m
> 1 b/r 2.1 m
> 2 b/r 2.8 m
> 3 b/r 3.9 m
> 
> completion 2010


SOLD OUT everything


----------



## AITU

Imre said:


> SOLD OUT everything


^^So maybe Business Bay is undervalued at 1500 - 2000 Dhs per sq ft. if Downtown less than a km away sells out a new development at 3000 Dhs per sq ft in 24 hours!


----------



## ferrari430

^^ I predict that residential properties in business bay will be one of the best performing in the next 2 years


----------



## rbj

Does this mean I can claim a refund on fees I have already paid? I doubt it.

I dont see why not I will be contacting mine and asking them for an explanation as to why I paid the transfer fee and what exactly they did with the money. If they didnt use it as transfer I will want to know why. I am sure the Dubai Lands Department has an enquiries or complaints section. Will keep you updated


----------



## DubaiMarina

http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=1199


----------



## FWIW

DubaiMarina said:


> http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=1199


^^ OMG!!!!!










Enough already!


----------



## Essa

^ sorry i had bad dinner yesterday i had to throw up in the sea.


----------



## smussuw

^^ :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> I am not sure I understand this, some previous contracts actually stated that a fee should be payable to the developer to transfer contracts BEFORE completion. For example, Marina Heights Tower.


Developers charge a fee to transfer contracts (when unit it sold) both before and after completion. At times it is based on the original price and at times on the sale value.


----------



## ferrari430

*From AMEInfo*

Dubai real estate soon to be the most expensive in the world?

The idea that Dubai will soon boast the most expensive real estate in the world is not as absurd as it sounds. All it takes is a modest extrapolation of growth trends for rentals in the Dubai International Financial Centre, and a continuation of the current cooling off in markets like London Prime and this a fact.

Dubai's office market continues to suffer from an acute shortage of space, with 98 per cent occupancy in the new financial zone, the Dubai International Financial Centre, which has been hugely successful in attracting global financial firms to the emirate. 

The latest recruit this week is Thames River Capital, a boutique fund-of-funds investment manager based in Berkeley Square. The latter told AME Info that rents in this prime London location had fallen by around 30 per cent and that the rent it had just agreed in Dubai was not far off the rent it had just paid for additional space in Mayfair. 

It requires only a little imagination then to see that if the UK enters a recession, and the financial services sector already seems to be in one, then rents in Mayfair will fall further. Meanwhile, new companies are arriving in Dubai every day, particularly in the financial services industry as the attractions of Gulf oil revenues are magnetic. 

Dubai calling
The DIFC is the most expensive district in Dubai followed closely by the nearby offices of the Sheikh Zayed Road, actually the closest Thames River Capital could get to the DIFC which is effectively full. 

A new report from local investment bank Shuaa Capital suggests that new commercial space coming on stream this year will be picked up rapidly. 

'Starting in 2009 we expect to start witnessing a more rapid switch for many companies from the older CBD to the new one along the Sheikh Zayed Road and further down to the Tecom area,' says the report. 'These large office supplies are expected to apply downward pressure on rents, especially around the Bur Dubai and Deira area.' 

London falling
However, that would still leave very high rental levels in the DIFC in 2009 at a time when in the global financial markets rents may be tumbling due to the impact of a bear market. The poor start to 2008 in global equity markets is already leading analysts to project a bear market, with the US likely to officially declare a full bear market as soon as this week. 

In a bear market financial companies fire staff with enormous speed and so the demand for office space shrinks, particularly for new space. This exerts a powerful downward pressure on rents which have become inflated during the bull market. 

Colliers International last week produced a report showing office space in the DIFC lagging only marginally behind London Prime in cost. So all it really takes is further weakness in London rents and modest growth in Dubai and the emirate will have the most expensive office space in the world.


----------



## AltinD

^^ I hope not.


----------



## dubaiprojects

Imre said:


> SOLD OUT everything


One of my friend told me just now that In the morning 1 br is between 2.25 to 2.35, in the afternoon,her client bought 1 br 797 sq ft for 2,811,888.

Isn't that tooooooo much???


----------



## Dubai_Steve

That is over AED 3500 per sq ft !


----------



## Essa

pooof. 
2.8 milliion for a 1 bedroom. where do people come with all that money from and decide to smoke it on a 1 bedroom apartment


----------



## jacobdxb

anybody interested in purchasing a 1 bedroom apt in Trident Grand Residence on a high floor, pls PM me...


----------



## IISinbadII

Lots of news today:


----------



## FWIW

mackie1964 said:


> For them (US) to cut 75 units just a week before their regular meeting, there must be some bad news that we will all know about over the next few weeks.


Shhh...Don't say the R word. hno:

I think they had to cut IR to give the impression that they are still in control. Really the market led them to this place because of the low 2 year bond rate which seems detatched from the real economy.

I would guess that another 25bps cut (at least) is still on the cards.


----------



## Salameer

I was watching Newsnight earlier and there was US Economist and a British Economist amongst the panel. Each said that the others Economy was/will be soon in Recession.
It made me laugh! I thought we were on the same side. And then, it sent a cold shiver at the thought that we might be in deep do do for a year or three.
Surely, low interest rates again will probably result in cheaper mortgages and further specualtion into Real Estate. 
My guess is that the real global recession is just around the corner and I don't think UAE will be spared.


----------



## rexdmx

High Times said:


> Salameer - I agree to some extent,
> 
> The 'vision' is in danger of becoming 'over envisaged' ! IMO Sheik Mo needs to let things catch up with itself. As Dubai is in it's infancy I see no reason for running at this speed.
> 
> The Emirate is barely capable of walking unaided yet as construction cant keep pace with the architects dreams, and engineers ambitions.
> 
> Come on Sheik Mo this is a marathon, not a sprint.
> 
> I remember a little old building society in the UK back in 1998 who had big plans for expansion into the mortgage market and by using a very agressive marketing and growth strategy within 10 years grew to be one of the biggest companies in the UK.
> 
> Where are they now ?
> 
> Looking for someone to save them from bankruptcy, and at the moment only the British Government wants to help them out.
> 
> Dubai, there is no need to rush, you have all the ingredients of success in your hands, dont overcook the cake please............


trust me...no one is listening...they never do until it is too late


----------



## dubaiprojects

High Times said:


> Salameer - I agree to some extent,
> 
> The 'vision' is in danger of becoming 'over envisaged' ! IMO Sheik Mo needs to let things catch up with itself. As Dubai is in it's infancy I see no reason for running at this speed.
> 
> The Emirate is barely capable of walking unaided yet as construction cant keep pace with the architects dreams, and engineers ambitions.
> 
> Come on Sheik Mo this is a marathon, not a sprint.
> 
> I remember a little old building society in the UK back in 1998 who had big plans for expansion into the mortgage market and by using a very agressive marketing and growth strategy within 10 years grew to be one of the biggest companies in the UK.
> 
> Where are they now ?
> 
> Looking for someone to save them from bankruptcy, and at the moment only the British Government wants to help them out.
> 
> Dubai, there is no need to rush, you have all the ingredients of success in your hands, dont overcook the cake please............



Why do you guys are so scared of dubai falling? I think dubai is growing at the right speed to become one of the best city in the world. Construction speed should be increased to catch up with the vision its leaders put in place and to achieve what the rulers want by 2020, we need to do a lot more.

Few bad incidents about constructions delays etc should not be looked at stopping the pace , rather look for improvements. I would say go forward with full speed!! it is not a rush for me. perhaps you guys fear a lot about the investments you have made and you over reacting. Thing of the new people coming to dubai for investmemt , give some room to them as well.

Cheers


----------



## bizzybonita

u have so many high times ...


----------



## FWIW

AITU said:


> From AMEInfo......and sure enough the US slashed interest rates this afternoon.....
> 
> When AME Info suggested in late 2006 that a stock market crash would be good for UAE property prices many developers thought this complete madness.
> 
> But that is exactly what happened. Local investors avoided the stock market and instead put their money into property. They reasoned that the recent capital returns on property were attractive and rental yields in the emirates excellent.
> 
> Fast forward a little and the same opportunity presents itself to local investors today. Stick with a stock market that rallied too far and too soon, and is anyway being hit by global shifts in capital flows which have nothing to do with the fundamentally sound UAE economy, or choose real estate again.
> 
> 
> Rate cut impact
> It is a no-brainer really. The US Federal Reserve is bound to slash interest rates to try to put a bottom on a big downturn in Wall Street. And as UAE interest rates track US rates that will make home finance cheaper and support property prices.
> 
> At the same time the amount UAE depositors receive on their cash deposits in local banks as interest will fall. By comparison very high local rental yields will look most attractive, so they will feel inclined to buy property to rent out to replace the poor return on cash deposits.
> 
> Now actual completed property available for rent is in short supply in the emirates and in fact almost non-existent in Abu Dhabi.
> 
> 
> Property shortage
> Therefore, this renewed interest in buying property - because the stock market has tanked and other global investments look dangerous - will coincide with a shortage of available property. That can mean only one thing for local property prices. They will go up, and probably in quite a dramatic fashion.
> 
> Indeed, there will have to be a fall in rental yields towards lower interest rates - the market mechanism dictates it - and the way it is achieved will be through higher property prices. The alternative is for rents to fall, and that does not look likely does it?
> 
> In short, if you are thinking of buying a property in the emirates you should best get on with it now. Prices are going to be forced much higher by the impact of the falling local and global stock markets, lower interest rates and the absence of alternative investment opportunities.
> 
> You could argue that local investors will be scared by a second stock market plunge, and it is true that there will be some who lose everything. But the UAE is awash with liquidity which has to find a home, so to speak.



Aitu - I just got this email:

Looks like your analysis was 100% correct and Select are now trying to become a 'safe' harbour.

Share Crash

On Monday the FTSE 100 index shares closed down 323.5 points, a 5.5% fall across the day. That’s the biggest single day drop Britain's top shares have seen since 9/11. This downward trend is world-wide, wiping billions off share value as the markets plummet.

Property Stability


With the worlds stock market in turmoil investing in overseas property could provide the stability, simplicity and excellent returns that investors seek. Many emerging economies/markets, including Dubai, are currently at an early stage in the growth curve creating opportunities for investment and enhanced returns.

Protect Your Money


Select Property has a number of exciting developments which offer strong capital appreciation while delivering the security of an escrow account, protecting your funds.



Find out how you can benefit today.
Call: 0870 111 0000
Email: [email protected]
Visit: www.selectproperty.com


----------



## AITU

^^ And no....before anyone asks...I don't work for Dubai Select and neither do any of my relatives.....they just probably read the same articles


----------



## mackie1964

Does anybody know their opening time tomorrow? I have a few £££££ for them to hold for 4 to 5 years for me.


----------



## High Times

dubaiprojects said:


> Why do you guys are so scared of dubai falling? I think dubai is growing at the right speed to become one of the best city in the world. Construction speed should be increased to catch up with the vision its leaders put in place and to achieve what the rulers want by 2020, we need to do a lot more.
> 
> Few bad incidents about constructions delays etc should not be looked at stopping the pace , rather look for improvements. I would say go forward with full speed!! it is not a rush for me. perhaps you guys fear a lot about the investments you have made and you over reacting. Thing of the new people coming to dubai for investmemt , give some room to them as well.
> 
> Cheers



I dont know where your from but the reason for my desire to proceed at a sencible pace rather than go full steam ahead is that i am from a western econemy and have therefore lived through many ressessions and many housing slumps in my time. I have seen first hand acres of commercial office space built only to be left empty for years. I have seen residencial house prices fall so rapidly that they are worth less than you owe on them in finance or mortgages, and still no one will buy them.

I agree Dubai is one of the most exiting places on earth from a construction/growth point of view, but trust me when i say that Dubai is not amune to the normal boom/bust cycles that is the norm for property the world over.

I dont want to spoil the party for anyone especially new invetors coming to Dubai, but there is a limit to how far you can blow the balloon before it will burst. As the balloon gets bigger it is getting closer to bursting point so the sencible thing to do is to slow down and blow carefully.

If construction cant keep up with the visions of the visionaries then that should be a warning sign in itself.

I would presume from your comments that you may be from Dubai or the surrounding are and therefore property and constrcuction cycles are a new concept to you. If i am wrong then forgive me but there are several warning signs which are clear to me and that is my only concern.

I hope I am wrong.


----------



## Morrismarina

mackie1964 said:


> Does anybody know their opening time tomorrow? I have a few £££££ for them to hold for 4 to 5 years for me.



The office opens at 9.00am.


----------



## mackie1964

Do I still get the usual discount if I mention your name?


----------



## Morrismarina

mackie1964 said:


> Do I still get the usual discount if I mention your name?


Most certainly.

As we're both Platinum members we'll get £2,000 off each of our next 25 purchases. :nuts:


----------



## mackie1964

Is there Silver and Gold? How did everybody get platinum?


----------



## AltinD

^^ Should be (silver and gold) ... however TB is aluminium.


----------



## AITU

High Times said:


> I dont know where your from but the reason for my desire to proceed at a sencible pace rather than go full steam ahead is that i am from a western econemy and have therefore lived through many ressessions and many housing slumps in my time. I have seen first hand acres of commercial office space built only to be left empty for years. I have seen residencial house prices fall so rapidly that they are worth less than you owe on them in finance or mortgages, and still no one will buy them.
> 
> I agree Dubai is one of the most exiting places on earth from a construction/growth point of view, but trust me when i say that Dubai is not amune to the normal boom/bust cycles that is the norm for property the world over.
> 
> I dont want to spoil the party for anyone especially new invetors coming to Dubai, but there is a limit to how far you can blow the balloon before it will burst. As the balloon gets bigger it is getting closer to bursting point so the sencible thing to do is to slow down and blow carefully.
> 
> If construction cant keep up with the visions of the visionaries then that should be a warning sign in itself.
> 
> I would presume from your comments that you may be from Dubai or the surrounding are and therefore property and constrcuction cycles are a new concept to you. If i am wrong then forgive me but there are several warning signs which are clear to me and that is my only concern.
> 
> I hope I am wrong.


High Times - I fully respect what you say and understand where you are coming from....however, here are a few points to ponder:

"i am from a western econemy and have therefore lived through many ressessions and many housing slumps in my time."

Understood, however Dubai/ME is not a western economy (yet) and what is happening here now is probably unprecedented on a like for like scale. It is an economy that in realistic terms is less than 40 years old. Recessions and housing slump cycles have never been experienced in this part of the world compared to the west - instability of a different kind have been more the order of the day.

Two key words as far as I can see - liquidity and attraction. 

The liquidity in the region is immense due to current oil prices (include Russia in that) and yes a lot of this is being invested into real estate and infrastructure for good reason - the region needs it as compared to the west it was starting from scratch. 

Attraction - what has the middle east got to offer? Well liquidity helps and people want to be here, the economy is booming and if the rest of the world is going to slump then the attraction for Dubai will surely grow? Tax - well yes we all know that there are plenty of hidden taxes here but hey - compared to Europe? Quality of living? I'd know where I'd rather be.

Sheikh Mo and the crew have more than proved their commitment to this and that they want to be in this for the long run and yes despite project announcements such as the "Universe" (surely it will be redesigned?) there is still the attitude of "lets get the job done and go for it". Of course there are problems along the way but surely we all realise that this is to be expected? 

I know at the end of the day who I would rather have pulling the puppet strings - Sheikh Mo with a positive attitude (and cash to back it up) or a bunch of UK politicians trying to justify their £60K a year salary plus extras whilst welcoming the Eastern European mafia with open arms....and giving them homes and healthcare.

Maybe its time someone set a benchmark for the next 200 years.


----------



## mackie1964

AltinD said:


> ^^ Should be (silver and gold) ... however TB is aluminium.




:lol:

To remind him of the Torch Cladding :banana:


----------



## dubaiprojects

High Times said:


> I dont know where your from but the reason for my desire to proceed at a sencible pace rather than go full steam ahead is that i am from a western econemy and have therefore lived through many ressessions and many housing slumps in my time. I have seen first hand acres of commercial office space built only to be left empty for years. I have seen residencial house prices fall so rapidly that they are worth less than you owe on them in finance or mortgages, and still no one will buy them.
> 
> I agree Dubai is one of the most exiting places on earth from a construction/growth point of view, but trust me when i say that Dubai is not amune to the normal boom/bust cycles that is the norm for property the world over.
> 
> I dont want to spoil the party for anyone especially new invetors coming to Dubai, but there is a limit to how far you can blow the balloon before it will burst. As the balloon gets bigger it is getting closer to bursting point so the sencible thing to do is to slow down and blow carefully.
> 
> If construction cant keep up with the visions of the visionaries then that should be a warning sign in itself.
> 
> I would presume from your comments that you may be from Dubai or the surrounding are and therefore property and constrcuction cycles are a new concept to you. If i am wrong then forgive me but there are several warning signs which are clear to me and that is my only concern.
> 
> I hope I am wrong.


I hope too


----------



## True Blue

If I have only been awarded Aluminium Membership level then I must formaly resign from the DS fan club with immediate effect. 

Aluminium....Huh! What a kick in the bollocks that is after all the property I have helped them to sell. :bash:


----------



## IISinbadII

AITU said:


> High Times - I fully respect what you say and understand where you are coming from....however, here are a few points to ponder:
> 
> "i am from a western econemy and have therefore lived through many ressessions and many housing slumps in my time."
> 
> Understood, however Dubai/ME is not a western economy (yet) and what is happening here now is probably unprecedented on a like for like scale. It is an economy that in realistic terms is less than 40 years old. Recessions and housing slump cycles have never been experienced in this part of the world compared to the west - instability of a different kind have been more the order of the day.
> 
> Two key words as far as I can see - liquidity and attraction.
> 
> The liquidity in the region is immense due to current oil prices (include Russia in that) and yes a lot of this is being invested into real estate and infrastructure for good reason - the region needs it as compared to the west it was starting from scratch.
> 
> Attraction - what has the middle east got to offer? Well liquidity helps and people want to be here, the economy is booming and if the rest of the world is going to slump then the attraction for Dubai will surely grow? Tax - well yes we all know that there are plenty of hidden taxes here but hey - compared to Europe? Quality of living? I'd know where I'd rather be.
> 
> Sheikh Mo and the crew have more than proved their commitment to this and that they want to be in this for the long run and yes despite project announcements such as the "Universe" (surely it will be redesigned?) there is still the attitude of "lets get the job done and go for it". Of course there are problems along the way but surely we all realise that this is to be expected?
> 
> I know at the end of the day who I would rather have pulling the puppet strings - Sheikh Mo with a positive attitude (and cash to back it up) or a bunch of UK politicians trying to justify their £60K a year salary plus extras whilst welcoming the Eastern European mafia with open arms....and giving them homes and healthcare.
> 
> Maybe its time someone set a benchmark for the next 200 years.


But still, you can't change the nature of the beast. Water flows from high to the low grounds, supply and demand economics works out its own way and property has cycles.


----------



## djamel05

*Strata Law Finally promulgated*

Rera unveils new property legislation 
By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: January 24, 2008, 00:06


Dubai: Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) has unveiled new legislation to make developers responsible for any structural damage to a property for 10 years after project completion.

The developer will be fully liable for all structural damage, for example cracks in the walls and damage to walls caused by heavy rain or flooding, for 10 years. 

They will also be liable for any defective installations, such as plumbing, mechanical and electrical problems for up to a year after project completion. 

In order to protect the homeowner, Marwan bin Gallita, CEO of Rera, stressed the need for adequate insurance, with the onus firmly on the owner. 

He said: "The owner must insure the building to cover the risk of such things as demolition or collapse. This home insurance is a new thing for Dubai." 

Every jointly owned property must have an Owners' Association in accordance with article 17 of the new strata law. 

The association is formed after the first sale of a unit in a jointly-owned property is registered. It will be made up of all unit owners of the property and also the master developer who will be responsible for any unsold units. 

Common areas

Under the new law, all owners associations will become legal bodies with bank accounts and contracts for a group of owners and the ability to sue and appear in court under its name.

The owners associations will become legal bodies after obtaining a licence from the Land Department. They will be responsible for the management, operation and maintenance of all common areas of the development. 

Common areas include lifts, parking areas, entrances, gyms and swimming pools. They will also maintain comprehensive insurance of the jointly-owned property and will be beneficiaries of this insurance. Each unit owner will pay his insurance premium to the owners association.

bin Gallita emphasised the importance of increasing trust in the real estate market to attract more foreign investments. 

"The years 2006 and 2007 witnessed a number of legislations which protect the supreme interests of the emirate, attract investments and maintain the gains of the construction boom while protecting the rights of all parties involved," he said.

The aims of the new law, coming into effect after three months, are to monitor real estate and development brokers, prevent fraudulent activities and to increase investment rates which were discussed during a round-table meeting at Dubai's Land Department.

Strong boost

Sultan bin Butti, Head of the Dubai Land Department, said that Dubai "comes first in updating its legislations, giving the real estate market a strong boost".

To achieve confidence and security in the real estate market, new buyers of a unit within a jointly-owned development will now have "full access to records, diagrams and financial statements and be able to review all the history before buying. The owners association will have a full history of the building," bin Gallita said.


----------



## IISinbadII

djamel05 said:


> In order to protect the homeowner, Marwan bin Gallita, CEO of Rera, stressed the need for adequate insurance, with the onus firmly on the owner.
> 
> He said: "The owner must insure the building to cover the risk of such things as demolition or collapse. This home insurance is a new thing for Dubai."
> 
> They will also maintain comprehensive insurance of the jointly-owned property and will be beneficiaries of this insurance. Each unit owner will pay his insurance premium to the owners association.


Does this mean that at present the buildings are not insured? If the current service charges don't include insurance, it means the charges will go up.


----------



## IISinbadII

*New fees for property owners *
by Muna Ahmad on Thursday,January 24,2008 

Freeehold property owners in Dubai will have to pay two maintenance fees under *a new law to be implemented in three months*, an official said.

*The combined cost is likely to be considerably higher than the single amount currently paid*. Anyone who fails to pay could face stiff penalties.

The first fee, a *service charge*, will be paid to an association of owners of flats or villas in a building or development. And, as now, *a fee *will be paid to the developer, although this charge may be lower than at present.

The changes are part of the new Strata Law, said Marwan Ahmed bin Ghalita, CEO of Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera). Anyone who refuses to pay the fee to the owners’ association after three warnings will face face stiff penalties.

“The law covers jointly owned buildings,” said bin Ghalita. “It applies to residential and commercial buildings, including hotels and compound villas, in the freehold areas.

“For example, buyers in a freehold residential tower will form an owners’ association as soon as the first flat is registered with Rera. They will then select members of the society to deal with issues relating to the property.

“In a project such as the Burj Dubai there are many residences, offices and hotels. Each property will have a separate owners’ association.

“The new law defines the rights and obligations of project owners, developers, floors owners and flat owners in relation to the use of facilities such as storage areas, car parks, gardens, swimming pools and gates. It also regulates joint services such as building management.”

Bin Ghalita said many owners who currently pay high maintenance fees to developers were receiving poor quality service in return.

“Under the new law the owners’ association will have to pay the service fees into a dedicated account at a bank chosen by the members. The association will then have the option of selecting the company that will look after the maintenance.

“The *developer’s fee *will be paid through the association and will cover shared facilities such as roads and parks.” 

http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=1355


----------



## mackie1964

Any ideas to when the council tax will comence?........ W****krs


----------



## was2103

For all of you (fundamentalists) that think that the market should dictate the rental prices here in Dubai. Please read about how the markets are controlled in your respective economies. I'm confident that Dubai is the safest economy to invest into today, and one worth protecting (i believe that most of the recent legislations are good for the local ecosystem). Liquid, young, tax free and tending to intense global demand.

There is some good new for Dubai investors in this article. Bricks are always a safe investment.

The worst market crisis in 60 years

By George Soros

Published: January 22 2008 19:57 | Last updated: January 22 2008 19:57

The current financial crisis was precipitated by a bubble in the US housing market. In some ways it resembles other crises that have occurred since the end of the second world war at intervals ranging from four to 10 years.

However, there is a profound difference: the current crisis marks the end of an era of credit expansion based on the dollar as the international reserve currency. The periodic crises were part of a larger boom-bust process. The current crisis is the culmination of a super-boom that has lasted for more than 60 years.

Boom-bust processes usually revolve around credit and always involve a bias or misconception. This is usually a failure to recognise a reflexive, circular connection between the willingness to lend and the value of the collateral. Ease of credit generates demand that pushes up the value of property, which in turn increases the amount of credit available. A bubble starts when people buy houses in the expectation that they can refinance their mortgages at a profit. The recent US housing boom is a case in point. The 60-year super-boom is a more complicated case.

Every time the credit expansion ran into trouble the financial authorities intervened, injecting liquidity and finding other ways to stimulate the economy. That created a system of asymmetric incentives also known as moral hazard, which encouraged ever greater credit expansion. The system was so successful that people came to believe in what former US president Ronald Reagan called the magic of the marketplace and I call market fundamentalism. Fundamentalists believe that markets tend towards equilibrium and the common interest is best served by allowing participants to pursue their self-interest. It is an obvious misconception, because it was the intervention of the authorities that prevented financial markets from breaking down, not the markets themselves. Nevertheless, market fundamentalism emerged as the dominant ideology in the 1980s, when financial markets started to become globalised and the US started to run a current account deficit.

Globalisation allowed the US to suck up the savings of the rest of the world and consume more than it produced. The US current account deficit reached 6.2 per cent of gross national product in 2006. The financial markets encouraged consumers to borrow by introducing ever more sophisticated instruments and more generous terms. The authorities aided and abetted the process by intervening whenever the global financial system was at risk. Since 1980, regulations have been progressively relaxed until they have practically disappeared.

The super-boom got out of hand when the new products became so complicated that the authorities could no longer calculate the risks and started relying on the risk management methods of the banks themselves. Similarly, the rating agencies relied on the information provided by the originators of synthetic products. It was a shocking abdication of responsibility.

Everything that could go wrong did. What started with subprime mortgages spread to all collateralised debt obligations, endangered municipal and mortgage insurance and reinsurance companies and threatened to unravel the multi-trillion-dollar credit default swap market. Investment banks’ commitments to leveraged buyouts became liabilities. Market-neutral hedge funds turned out not to be market-neutral and had to be unwound. The asset-backed commercial paper market came to a standstill and the special investment vehicles set up by banks to get mortgages off their balance sheets could no longer get outside financing. The final blow came when interbank lending, which is at the heart of the financial system, was disrupted because banks had to husband their resources and could not trust their counterparties. The central banks had to inject an unprecedented amount of money and extend credit on an unprecedented range of securities to a broader range of institutions than ever before. That made the crisis more severe than any since the second world war.

Credit expansion must now be followed by a period of contraction, because some of the new credit instruments and practices are unsound and unsustainable. The ability of the financial authorities to stimulate the economy is constrained by the unwillingness of the rest of the world to accumulate additional dollar reserves. Until recently, investors were hoping that the US Federal Reserve would do whatever it takes to avoid a recession, because that is what it did on previous occasions. Now they will have to realise that the Fed may no longer be in a position to do so. With oil, food and other commodities firm, and the renminbi appreciating somewhat faster, the Fed also has to worry about inflation. If federal funds were lowered beyond a certain point, the dollar would come under renewed pressure and long-term bonds would actually go up in yield. Where that point is, is impossible to determine. When it is reached, the ability of the Fed to stimulate the economy comes to an end.

Although a recession in the developed world is now more or less inevitable, China, India and some of the oil-producing countries are in a very strong countertrend. So, the current financial crisis is less likely to cause a global recession than a radical realignment of the global economy, with a relative decline of the US and the rise of China and other countries in the developing world.

The danger is that the resulting political tensions, including US protectionism, may disrupt the global economy and plunge the world into recession or worse.

The writer is chairman of Soros Fund Management


----------



## Naz UK

F**k 'em and Feed 'em.


The new logo for Dubai Inc. hno:

Does anyone know of another safe haven I can take my family and career to? :dunno:


----------



## FWIW

was2103 said:


> For all of you (fundamentalists) that think that the market should dictate the rental prices here in Dubai. Please read about how the markets are controlled in your respective economies. I'm confident that Dubai is the safest economy to invest into today, and one worth protecting (i believe that most of the recent legislations are good for the local ecosystem). Liquid, young, tax free and tending to intense global demand.
> 
> There is some good new for Dubai investors in this article. Bricks are always a safe investment.
> /Snip/
> Although a recession in the developed world is now more or less inevitable, China, India and some of the oil-producing countries are in a very strong countertrend. So, the current financial crisis is less likely to cause a global recession than a radical realignment of the global economy, with a relative decline of the US and the rise of China and other countries in the developing world.
> 
> *The danger is that the resulting political tensions, including US protectionism, may disrupt the global economy and plunge the world into recession or worse*.
> 
> The writer is chairman of Soros Fund Management


Last paragraph say's it all really - will the Yanks go down without a fight? Can the rest of the world cope with the baby throwing it's toys out of it's pram? If I were in Iran I would be worried...


----------



## heatstor

was2103 said:


> Although a recession in the developed world is now more or less inevitable, China, India and some of the oil-producing countries are in a very strong countertrend. So, the current financial crisis is less likely to cause a global recession than a radical realignment of the global economy, with a relative decline of the US and the rise of China and other countries in the developing world.


I agree with him 100%. Goerge Soros is awesome. This guy spent a considerable amount of his personal wealth to try to keep Bush out of the white house a second time. He saw this coming. 
In short all of us who live in the West and have invested in UAE will benefit or at least not be hit as hard in the coming years.
Just my two cents.


----------



## AITU

mackie1964 said:


> Any ideas to when the council tax will comence?........ W****krs


^^Lets not be hasty....it may actually work out cheaper than what we are all already paying to the developer as most of us are being overcharged....


----------



## googly

was2103 said:


> For all of you (fundamentalists) that think that the market should dictate the rental prices here in Dubai. Please read about how the markets are controlled in your respective economies. I'm confident that Dubai is the safest economy to invest into today, and one worth protecting (i believe that most of the recent legislations are good for the local ecosystem). Liquid, young, tax free and tending to intense global demand.
> 
> 
> ....


Thanks for posting the article. 

Where does the article state that the markets should NOT dictate rental prices? The writer states that the recessionary crisis the US is facing these days was caused by CREDIT which was given WITHOUT checks. If you give credit to every tom, dick and harry with no checks on whether they will be able to return it, you create high risk investment products which can tank very quickly. And instead of telling the banks to look into these products, the FED turned a blind eye, hoping that it would resolve itself. Certainly this was a wrong policy and the writer is pointing it out. 

He does not state that the market economic system is bad nor does he call for a new economic system wherin the govt regulates rents and produces rent indexes, etc.

If Dubai banks issue unworthy credit to lenders, then they too will face the same result. Hopefully that will not happen.


----------



## Pleth

Hi Guys,

I need your input as to the apartment I bought in Al Dua'a Marina Tower.
I bought the apt. more than a year ago, and the first contract they sent me was fine, I signed it and returned it. However they never signed it, instead I received a new contract 6 months later, where my apartment suddenly was 27% bigger and 27% more expensive! Al Dua'a Holdings explained to me today that they suddenly have decided to include the common service area of the building in the price (and in the square feet)! 
hno: 

And they refuse to give me a list of the finishing such as flooring, tiles, kitchen, cooker etc. And they have not included this in the contract either.
:rant:
Have you guys also been charged for the common service area? And do your contracts include details of finishing?
What's you opinions?


----------



## High Times

^^

Personaly i would not sign a contract without the specification of materiels being used as well as the dimentions of the rooms in it.

In my experience any off plan contract gives the developer the explicit rights to f**k you over at the best of times.

Not insisting on the above as a minimum, is simply bending over for them too.


----------



## jeetha

Who are they kidding?

They don’t mess about… never mind 1% or 2%....they go straight to 27%:rant:

Don’t pay a penny extra.


----------



## Salameer

Pleth said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I need your input as to the apartment I bought in Al Dua'a Marina Tower.
> I bought the apt. more than a year ago, and the first contract they sent me was fine, I signed it and returned it. However they never signed it, instead I received a new contract 6 months later, where my apartment suddenly was 27% bigger and 27% more expensive! Al Dua'a Holdings explained to me today that they suddenly have decided to include the common service area of the building in the price (and in the square feet)!
> hno:
> 
> And they refuse to give me a list of the finishing such as flooring, tiles, kitchen, cooker etc. And they have not included this in the contract either.
> :rant:
> Have you guys also been charged for the common service area? And do your contracts include details of finishing?
> What's you opinions?


Variance of up to 3% is normally quoted within an off-plan development contract. That would be reasonable and understandable.

If you are certain that your first contract is good enough and doesn't allow Dua'a to be so belligerent then get a lawyer and put them straight in writing. In the meantime, don't pay anymore until the matter is resolved. Make that clear too.

Try not to worry as you have legal recourse. Ultimately, RERA is the arbiter. Hang in there!


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai Investments to unveil realty project worth Dh10 billion in Ajman 

Dubai Investments, the UAE's largest listed diversified holding company, has announced that it will soon launch a mixed-use real estate project in Ajman, one of the seven emirates of the UAE, worth more than Dh10 billion. This real estate project with both commercial and residential developments will be situated on the Emirates Road in Ajman. 

Dubai Investment’ subsidiary Dubai Investments Real Estate Company has Dh3 billion worth of real estate projects under development. However, it aims to grow the portfolio to Dh20 billion in next 5 years.


----------



## bizzybonita

*here the good/bad news*

Property prices in Dubai to increase by almost 20-25% in 2008

Property prices have quadrupled in Gulf Arab countries due to surging demand for housing and office space created by economic growth and windfall revenues from a 5-fold increase in oil prices since 2002. Dubai, the Gulf commercial hub, has already set an annual rent cap of 5% for 2008, tighter than last year's 7% cap and the 15% ceiling of 2006. 

Jones Lang LaSalle expects a supply surplus in Dubai between 2010 and 2012. This adjusts the global real estate investor's previous forecast that supply would surpass demand between 2007 and 2009.

Real estate prices and rents in the Gulf Arab region, especially Dubai are most likely to rise by up to 20% in 2008, due to higher labor and construction costs and delivery delays, says market analyst, Jones Lang LaSalle.

Blair Hagkull, Regional Managing Director, Jones Lang LaSalle in Dubai, said, "With the delays in delivery, the specter of huge supply continues to be delayed and you see greater demand... there will also be an increase in labor and construction costs and land prices".

Of 57,000 residential units expected in Dubai in 2007, less than 20% were delivered by September, Cairo-based investment bank EFG-Hermes said in a report that month. It said then it expected a rise of 5-10% in property prices in 2008.


----------



## bizzybonita

New Condominium Law to enhance real estate investment in Dubai

The Dubai Condominium Law ‘No. 27 of 2007: Joint Ownership of Property Law’ issued by His Highness Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, will help drive demand and increase investor confidence in Dubai’s real estate market. Dubai’s Condominium Law relates to the management of common property and shared facilities such as parking, fire services, air conditioning, lifts, pools, gyms, walkways, roadways and gardens, collectively referred to as ‘strata’ in some countries, in multiple owner developments. 

According to the law, Owners Association management maintains the quality of the shared facilities environment of any development in a regulatory framework. Once established, it enhances the overall quality of life and the city environment. 

Since it clearly defines relations between real estate developers and owners, who are represented in Owners Associations, the law helps remove ambiguities about the responsibilities for common property management and reduces skepticism among investors in Dubai. Owners through their Owners Associations will be able to participate in the budgeting of the common property management processes.


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## dubaiprojects

bizzybonita said:


> Property prices in Dubai to increase by almost 20-25% in 2008
> 
> Property prices have quadrupled in Gulf Arab countries due to surging demand for housing and office space created by economic growth and windfall revenues from a 5-fold increase in oil prices since 2002. Dubai, the Gulf commercial hub, has already set an annual rent cap of 5% for 2008, tighter than last year's 7% cap and the 15% ceiling of 2006.
> 
> Jones Lang LaSalle expects a supply surplus in Dubai between 2010 and 2012. This adjusts the global real estate investor's previous forecast that supply would surpass demand between 2007 and 2009.
> 
> Real estate prices and rents in the Gulf Arab region, especially Dubai are most likely to rise by up to 20% in 2008, due to higher labor and construction costs and delivery delays, says market analyst, Jones Lang LaSalle.
> 
> Blair Hagkull, Regional Managing Director, Jones Lang LaSalle in Dubai, said, "With the delays in delivery, the specter of huge supply continues to be delayed and you see greater demand... there will also be an increase in labor and construction costs and land prices".
> 
> Of 57,000 residential units expected in Dubai in 2007, less than 20% were delivered by September, Cairo-based investment bank EFG-Hermes said in a report that month. It said then it expected a rise of 5-10% in property prices in 2008.


Will this affect the new projects developments or exiting completed properties?


----------



## Salameer

Let's hope so!
However, I have a doubt. Everyone is comparing Dubai to the West End and The City of London/New York to justify price discrepancy. Recent price hikes for commercial are already at a level similar to parts of London/New York.
I see limited upside for the next 2 years until we start seeing finished buildings, ready to occupy. At that time, we will probably be in global recession and things may not be as rosy as they are being painted right now!
:cheers:


----------



## smussuw

lets hope property prices decrease by 30%.


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## dubaiprojects

smussuw said:


> lets hope property prices decrease by 30%.


Thats a good one What I really wish is that the properties in dubai should be stabilized in terms of selling and renting, which is in the best interest of all parties.


----------



## IISinbadII

What Saudis are doing to control increasing rents:

-----------------------
*Saudis ease pain of surging prices *
By Mariam Al Hakeem, Correspondent
Published: January 29, 2008, 23:39

Riyadh: The Saudi government on Tuesday adopted a series of urgent measures to curb the rising cost of living in the kingdom. 

The new measures were approved during the weekly meeting of the cabinet chaired by King Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz on Monday.

The measures include a 50 per cent reduction in fees collected by state-owned ports on imported commodities. This measure will remain in effect for three years.

Steps

"The government will, for three years, bear 50 per cent of the charges of passports, car registrations, car ownership transfer and the renewal of Iqama [residence permits] for domestic workers," Iyad Madani, the minister of culture and information said in a statement after the cabinet meeting. 

He added that the government employees and pensioners would be paid five per cent of their salaries as a "high cost allowance" for three years. The minister pointed out that the cabinet also decided to increase allocations social insurance by 10 per cent and to continue subsidies for essential commodities in a bid to control increasing prices of these items. 

The move will be reviewed after three years.

The minister noted that the cabinet approved a fair competition law that will encourage competition, prevent monopolies and review the law of commercial agencies. 

The cabinet also decided to initiate the monitoring role of the consumer protection society, intensification of efforts aimed at monitoring prices and combat commercial fraud. 

*Rent*

To control increasing rents, the cabinet approved the urgent initiation of the General Housing Authority and to enable it to exercise its responsibilities this year.

It also called for the initiation of *building low-cost housing units*. A sum of 10 billion riyals has already been allocated from the Saudi budget for this purpose. 

The cabinet has also decided to enact the real estate mortgage law and its related regulations.

Highlights: Reform measures

A 50 per cent reduction in fees collected by state-owned Saudi ports on imported commodities. 
For three years, the Saudi government will bear 50 per cent of the charges of passports, car registrations, car ownership transfer and the renewal of Iqama (residence permits) for domestic workers. 
Government employees and pensioners would be paid five per cent of their salaries as 'high costs allowance' for three years. 
A sum of 10 billion Saudi riyals has been allocated for low-cost housing.


----------



## Naz UK

High Times said:


> Not a bad investment.
> 
> 63% profit in just over 2 years. :applause:
> 
> I wonder where they are buying next with the profits ?


Istithmar Aviation - their newest division.


----------



## High Times

*QUOTE OF THE WEEK FROM GEORGE DUBLYA*

*"There is certainly some uncertainty about the econemy at the moment"*

FED slashes rates again by another 50 basis points in addition to the 75 basis point cut only 8 gays ago.

What next - Free Big Macs for a year for every Republican voter at the next election.


----------



## rexdmx

xengineer said:


> Hey
> i heard Gigastar company dont provide residence visa before complete payments . It's just about this company or all buildings in 'emirate city' do that . i heard 'dubai marina' provide visa on time of delivary of apartment .
> if you have some info please inform me
> thanx


if it was included (which i am quite sure it was) that u would be provided with a residence visa, then of course until you get possession of the apartment (after paying the whole fees), you can't be provided with a visa...

dubai marina dont provide visas unless u take delivery of the apartment (after paying the whole fees of course) and then you have to apply for the visa..which would take some time


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> What Saudis are doing to control increasing rents:
> 
> It also called for the initiation of *building low-cost housing units*. A sum of 10 billion riyals has already been allocated from the Saudi budget for this purpose.


I am impressed with the economic advisors to the King in Saudi. If, in addition to the above, they depeg the riyal too, it would solve the problem pronto.

I hope Sheikh Mo takes notice of this policy initiative by Saudi and implements the same in Dubai.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ i think he has already done it for the nationals but i dont think they are under any obligation to do so here...developers dont have the incentives and motivation to build low cost housing...seeing the prices nowadays hno:


----------



## greenbage

Hi Guys sorry to change the subject, I have just started looking in Abu Dhabi and would like advice on how it compares in terms of prices with Dubai??
what is the cheapest entry price in Abu Dhabi in a nice development??

For example I would say the cheapest prices I have seen in Dubai Marina is AED 1100 to 1400 per square foot, how would this compare to something nice in Abu Dhabi??
and where would you recommend.

Your advice is welcomed.


----------



## yecabel

A Place in the Sun (march08) published a list of the top 20 most popular destinations for UK property buyers. Dubai is 18th, down by 3 places when compared to last year survey.


----------



## Morrismarina

That magazine is a bloody joke, most of the info is incorrect, although the TV show is quite good. Amanda Lamb has a lovely pair of knockers. :lol:


----------



## ferrari430

^^ Greenbage - I had put my name down for the prelaunch of Damac's Marina Bay on Al Reem Island (Najmat Abu Dhabi) on the Marina and when I was offered a 1 bed the prices scared me.

1800 DHS psf off plan with Damac where nothing else has been built is taking a big risk in my book.:nuts:

This seems to be the going price on Al reem island

Although, I am looking to buy something from Sorouh on Shams Abu Dhabi in the their next release (I think called Sun tower). I presume Sorouh in Abu Dhabi may be compared to the likes of Emaar in Dubai - they are building the iconic Sky tower and are the only developers offering freehold in AD (in selected towers to all nationals)


----------



## lovedubai

Can you buy direct from Sorouh from here in the UK or are you going through an agent? Do you have any more details of Sun Tower? Thanks


----------



## greenbage

ferrari430 said:


> ^^ Greenbage - I had put my name down for the prelaunch of Damac's Marina Bay on Al Reem Island (Najmat Abu Dhabi) on the Marina and when I was offered a 1 bed the prices scared me.
> 
> 1800 DHS psf off plan with Damac where nothing else has been built is taking a big risk in my book.:nuts:
> 
> This seems to be the going price on Al reem island
> 
> Although, I am looking to buy something from Sorouh on Shams Abu Dhabi in the their next release (I think called Sun tower). I presume Sorouh in Abu Dhabi may be compared to the likes of Emaar in Dubai - they are building the iconic Sky tower and are the only developers offering freehold in AD (in selected towers to all nationals)


Thanks for the details, so how much are Sorouh asking for in the Sun Tower 
per sq feet.

So what is cheaper Abu Dhabi or Dubai, if Dubai is cheaper then I cant see the case for investing in Abu Dhabi.


----------



## ferrari430

Sourouhs website is 

http://www.sorouh.com

and you can buy directly from them. I met a rep at a property show in london late 2006 when they were selling sky tower - in hindsight should have bought - they were selling for around 1000 dirhams psf and now the resale price is around 1600. Demand was lacklustre back then but it seems to have picked up like Dubai

Sun tower has not been released so no prices yet

Prime areas in Dubai (burj dubai, DIFC) is way more expensive than AD Reem Island. The reem island is between 300-500 meters away from the AD city centre - so I presume once developed this part of AD will be comparable to downtown dubai. If you take this perspective then 1600 - 1800 dirhams seems relatively good value. And also remember AD is richer than Dubai (with one of the highest GDPs in the world created by a 800 billion dollar oil surplus - ie money to squander!) so people generally can afford these prices


----------



## greenbage

Cheers, what is the cheapest property you have seen advertised lately in Abu Dhabi?

Do you know when the property boom started in Abu Dhabi?


ferrari430 said:


> Sourouhs website is
> 
> http://www.sorouh.com
> 
> and you can buy directly from them. I met a rep at a property show in london late 2006 when they were selling sky tower - in hindsight should have bought - they were selling for around 1000 dirhams psf and now the resale price is around 1600. Demand was lacklustre back then but it seems to have picked up like Dubai
> 
> Sun tower has not been released so no prices yet
> 
> Prime areas in Dubai (burj dubai, DIFC) is way more expensive than AD Reem Island. The reem island is between 300-500 meters away from the AD city centre - so I presume once developed this part of AD will be comparable to downtown dubai. If you take this prespective then 1600 - 1800 dirhams seems relatively good value. And also remember AD is richer than Dubai (with one of the highest GDPs in the world created by a 800 billion dollar oil surplus - ie money to squander!) so people generally can afford these prices


----------



## googly

ferrari430 said:


> Prime areas in Dubai (burj dubai, DIFC) is way more expensive than AD Reem Island. The reem island is between 300-500 meters away from the AD city centre - so I presume once developed this part of AD will be comparable to downtown dubai. If you take this perspective then 1600 - 1800 dirhams seems relatively good value. And also remember AD is richer than Dubai (with one of the highest GDPs in the world created by a 800 billion dollar oil surplus - ie money to squander!) so people generally can afford these prices


No doubt AD is richer than Dubai. But are people migrating to AD? Dubai is witnesing an influx of people which is causing a supply shortage in the property market. Is it the same in AD?


----------



## DubaiMarina

googly said:


> No doubt AD is richer than Dubai. But are people migrating to AD? Dubai is witnesing an influx of people which is causing a supply shortage in the property market. Is it the same in AD?


What AD can offer more than Dubai? I really don´t know.


----------



## Maha

googly said:


> No doubt AD is richer than Dubai. But are people migrating to AD? Dubai is witnesing an influx of people which is causing a supply shortage in the property market. Is it the same in AD?


Yes they are. Property rent in Abu Dhabi have now officially become the same as Dubai (ex. 2 bedroom apartment between 100 and 150K) and believe it or not, Abu Dhabi is even expeirncing traffic jams.


----------



## AltinD

^^ But we all know that the reason for that is because Abu Dhabi, unlike Dubai, hasn't build much in the last decade to support the normal increase in population.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ which means there is a good opportunity to invest in Abu dhabi since the supply hasnt even started to build up...plus the occupancy rate is 99% versus dubai's 98%


----------



## bizzybonita

Abu Dhabi Group plans investments in Georgia
(Reuters)

2 February 2008


TBILISI — Abu Dhabi Group plans to invest several hundred million dollars in Georgia’s telecoms, banking, tourism and real estate sectors and believes political unrest in the ex-Soviet country will be no obstacle to investment.

The company will start operating a bank in Georgia this year and spend $100 million building a five-star hotel over the next few years, Chief Executive Bashir Ahmad Tahir said yesterday.

“If you are an investor looking for the perfect country, perfect investment opportunities, I don’t think you’ll find it. Something could happen even in the US, something could happen in the UK, so we definitely aren’t frightened,” Tahir said in an interview.

Foreign direct investment in Georgia doubled to $2 billion last year, but recent political unrest has raised concern among some investors.

President Mikhail Saakashvili dispersed opposition protests with tear gas and rubber bullets in November and later won a snap presidential election by a narrow margin. The opposition rejected the vote and has vowed to continue mass protests.

Parliamentary elections are scheduled for April or May, and analysts say many potential investors are awaiting the outcome before committing to Georgia.

Tahir said Georgia would become more stable through elections: “This is the process that will ultimately bring stability. After the first election, then the second election, people will get used to it and get settled.”

Tax system

Tahir said Georgia’s relatively low taxes and transparent business climate were favourable for foreign investment. Value-added tax in Georgia is 18 per cent, and tax on profit was recently reduced to 15 per cent from 20 per cent.

“The tax system is very encouraging. To be honest, when I was last here, some government officials tried to explain the tax system to me. I thought it was a language problem, because it sounded so good,” he said.

Abu Dhabi Group in January acquired a banking licence from the National Bank of Georgia. Tahir said this bank would become a “supermarket” for clients seeking a range of financial services.

“We want to start as a fully fledged bank. Our concept is to develop a supermarket of financial services, including investment banking, asset management, securities, insurance.”

The group also plans to develop high-speed wireless communication networks based on WiMax technology. The first phase of the project, covering Georgia’s main cities, will be completed in September.

“The first phase will cost us $100-120 million. Then we will go to rural areas,” Tahir said. He added the group planned to lay fibre-optic cables across Georgia.

“The most important thing this country needs is a nationwide backbone,” he said. “That is an area in which we are prepared to invest, and we want to talk to the government.”

Tahir said Abu Dhabi Group would also build a five-star hotel in Georgia. Its location has yet to be determined.

“I think Georgia is a very good destination for Europeans. It is a tourist-friendly country,” he said.


----------



## Maha

AltinD said:


> ^^ But we all know that the reason for that is because Abu Dhabi, unlike Dubai, hasn't build much in the last decade to support the normal increase in population.


Maybe, but I think the increase is much more than the normal increase in population. There may be nothing finished right now, but there is a lot of work. It's not as much as Dubai, but it's much more than the "normal".


----------



## rexdmx

*how many heard of this??*

*US developer in $1bn Dubai property test case*
By Simeon Kerr in Dubai 

Published: February 1 2008 02:19 | Last updated: February 1 2008 02:19

A US real estate developer is suing a quasi-governmental Dubai firm for $1bn in damages, claiming its investment in a project in the emirate's property boom was unjustly cancelled amid a contractual dispute.

The developer, Capital Partners, had in July 2005 made what was planned to be one of the largest foreign investments in the region's business hub, when it announced plans for River Walk, a mixed-use $1bn project in the busy internet business park located on prime land near the trunk of the reclaimed Palm Island.

But the deal soon turned sour amid recriminations over the legal title of the plot on which the US developer planned to build apartments, hotels and offices.

The dispute is now in front of the Dubai International Arbitration Centre – a test case for foreign investors seeking to resolve contractual disputes under the centre's new regulations passed last year to create a level legal playing field for foreign businesses in conflict with local interests. The prospect of protracted court cases in the emirate's antiquated legal system has put off many foreign companies from pursuing litigation.

The dispute revolves around the existence of a protected archaeological site owned by the emirate's tourism department within the 1.7m sq ft plot. In October 2005, Capital Partners says it refused to make a second scheduled payment as its partner, Dubai's Technology, Electronic Commerce & Media Free Zone, or Tecom, had illegally sold it land that belonged to another government entity.

"Tecom misrepresented what they own," said Jonathan Wride, managing director of Capital Partners. "I am very confident we will receive a judgment in our favour." Capital Partners, which filed in August, hopes to receive a result in the summer.

Tecom, however, says it had every right to cancel the contract because of the non-payment. The media and internet business cluster owned by the ruler of Dubai, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, claims the archaeological site was never brought up by the US investors before they failed to meet the tight payment schedules. Tecom, in any case, owned the archaeological site, an official said.

The case should become a timely test for DIAC's new arbitration code, adopted last year, which closed loopholes in the centre's regulations and aims to give investors a fair hearing in Dubai, where the business interests of the government, royal family and powerful merchant class are far reaching.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008


----------



## sameerl

Its been going on for some time now...and its in the river walk thread as well


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai property prices world's second highest*

Continued housing supply shortages and unprecedented price hikes in 2008 will make Dubai’s real estate market the second most expensive in the world, after the West End of London, according to analysts.

“Accelerating growth rates have equipped expatriates with the means to rent houses at high rates, and the situation is least likely to be resolved in 2008 as the market is expected to be in short supply of housing units”, HC Securities Brokerage said in its Economy Watch Bulletin.

Government caps had done little to address surging inflation caused by rapidly increasing rents across the region, the report said, with GCC rents forecast to increase by a further 20% this year.

Dubai rents were first capped at 15% in 2006, with the rate lowered to 5% in December. The rent cap in Abu Dhabi is currently 7%, and 15% in Ras Al Khaimah and Fujairah.

“Nevertheless, the rise in rent rates is backfiring greatly on the inflation rate” the report said, adding “if the main reason behind climbing inflation is skyrocketing rent rates, we note that limiting rent prices does not seem to have solved the problem”.


----------



## CityofVillains

Imre said:


> this is commercial, I can not repair the title


Smallest commercial unit is 739 sq ft selling @ AED 625 psf. The tower has already been launched. Pre-launch prices are not being advertised.

Do you think its a good investment Imre ? 625 psf for Emirates City sounds a bit high..


----------



## coalmine

So guys, it sounds that Abu Dhabi is a better long term investment do you all agree?
if so where do you reccommed in Abu Dhabi for a first time low risk investment?


----------



## rexdmx

^^ focus on reem island...buy from first gulf bank or hyra..they have splendid payment schedules...20% now...80% on completion


----------



## coalmine

Thanks do you mean Hydra??

What do the prices start from?


----------



## rexdmx

^^ dont recall but give me time...i received some emails yesterday with the prices so i'll post them here


----------



## Imre

i dont know, should be good, 625 is not too bad.


----------



## bizzybonita

i mean the tower itself it's nice but price yea little more but maybe coz all market right now gettin increase that's why !!


----------



## High Times

Any UK investors watch Panorama tonight ?

Very interesting and many parallels with whats happening in Dubai at the moment.


----------



## maryjo

What did we miss? I wish I had known that they were going to be discussing Dubai.

Cheers,


----------



## FWIW

High Times said:


> Any UK investors watch Panorama tonight ?
> 
> Very interesting and many parallels with whats happening in Dubai at the moment.


Yes, i saw that. The main parallel i see is that even a mature market is not immune to ingenious scammers. Also reminds me that buyers must always be aware!


----------



## Salameer

maryjo said:


> What did we miss? I wish I had known that they were going to be discussing Dubai.
> 
> Cheers,


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/programmes/panorama/default.stm


----------



## mackie1964

Hold on a minute..........Morris Properties !!! :lol:


----------



## High Times

maryjo said:


> What did we miss? I wish I had known that they were going to be discussing Dubai.
> 
> Cheers,


It was not discussing specific issues regarding Dubai but it made me sit up and think wow that is similar in some ways to what's happening in the Emirate.

The BBC Panorama program highlighted a scam that i have been aware of in the Property market for 10 years +. One of my close business associates runs a very successsfull company doing exactly what was on the program last night.

Basicaly 'Company A' offers an investor the chance to buy a property for £200,000. (This propoerty is only actually worth £150,000), but company A's survayer and legal team value it at £200,000 and arrange a loan on it for £180,000 90% loan to value (LTV).

So company A get £180k for a £150k property. £30k profit or 20%
The mortgage company lend £180k on a £150k property.
The investor owns a £150k property with £180k of debt. 

The investor has a buy to let mortgage and as long as the rental yield covers the interest only loan no one is out of pocket *yet*.

The investor effectively has not had to put any of his own funds into the deal. It will pay for itself. and in 5-10 years time he can sell the property, pay off the loan and make his profit.

That's all great if the housing market is going up in value circa 8%-10% a year. The shit hits the fan when property prices stagnate or even fall. If this happens investors in this scheme end up owing more, sometimes a lot more than their properties are worth. Even worse is when they are not tennanted and they have to pay the mortgage out of their own pocket. (This is now beggining to happen in the UK).

I know of people that have been sold portfolios of 10 or more properties on this basis. They were prommissed that it would not cost them a penny to set up the deals (sometimes offered cashbacks too) the investments would pay for themselves, then they can sell up in 10 years and walk away as millionaires. 

Scary shit if you did this kind of deal and your properties are now begining to fall in value and you cant find a tennant.

My friend who runs a company that does this for a living is currently driving an Aston Martin Vanquish and goes into the office once a week to sign a few cheques before playing golf all day.

*Whats this got to do with Dubai ?*

Firstly let me say i am not a sceptic of Dubai. I have family in Dubai. I love the place, i have invested my hard erned wedge there, and i intend to live in Dubai within the next 10 years. I have been investing in property in the UK and Europe for donkeys years now and have always viewed it as a long term issue and done very well in the process.

What scares me a bit is i see many similarities with the above *scam* and Dubai. 

Why?

Well firstly there is no real secondary market in Dubai yet as it is in its infancy. If there is no secondary (resale) market then there is no *real value*. No exit strategy for investors. I know there is some resale activity but it is very limited at present. 

Secondly we are continually told that the glorious PSF is increasing everyday and what was sold at AED 900 is now selling for AED 1500. I hear so many people assuming their units value on the basis of a betterhomes or gowealthy advert and it makes me very nervous as this is the sign of desperation if ever i saw it.

Thirdly the only other measure of current value is what new developments are selling for. Again this is a totally made up value. All developers are interested in is selling for maximum price so when all this talk of Dubai Promenade is AED 2500 - AED 3000. Thats just Nahkeel dreaming up numbers to make their balance sheet look good.

The buyers in this market at the moment are mostly (90%+) speculators. From off plan purchasers, to resale purchasers. All speculators just entering the market at different levels of risk. The amount of buyers who are buying for their own use either temporary or permanent is very low indeed.

So in summary the whole Price/Valuation scenario is being manipulated by Developers and Speculators. This is exactly the same as the Panorama scam and is a dangerous situation.

It is made worse buy speculators wanting or willing to pay almost any price to get a slice of the action in Dubai. What needs to happen, but i know it won't is new property launches not selling out so quickly and the que of speculators reducing. 

This will not happen until the mass of developers have gone and people start to realise that they have bought a unit at AED 3000 psf and there is no solid reason a buyer will pay that for it in a saturated market with tens of thousands of speculators all wanting to make their profits at the same time. 

As i say please dont accuse me of being Mr Negative as i am firmly on this bandwagon but am in it for the long haul and i can see a lot of foolish, greedy people getting stung here.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ alright...i'll give it to u here..good analysis in certain places
i've always said that people should buy here on a long term and it should be under valued...


----------



## abf

It has also been worth consideration that the biuldings which were destined to be handed over in the fall of last year are still waiting for the finishing works and the shortages are just being maipulated artificially to sell more and more to the end speculator


----------



## Naz UK

Such manipulation suggests a well organised system - something not possible in Dubai thanks to a workforce with an incompetance/retardation rate of 99%. Luckily, I am not from this workforce.


----------



## AITU

^^ I don't think you can say that it is down to developer's being greedy in the present day. Master developers are hitting individual developers with new charges, the price of land and building materials are going through the roof as well.

There has to be enough margin in it for the developer otherwise they may as well not bother and the margins of developers have been squeezed a lot already since say 2005.


----------



## FWIW

I don't agree with the arguments in this peice (we can al discuss later), but you all need to read this:

http://www.moneyweek.com/file/41924/move-over-dubai---hong-kong-property-is-better-value.html

Here is an extract:
When a property developer starts handing out free BMWs and Bentleys with every apartment sale, you can be sure that a property bubble isn’t far off popping. 

DAMAC, a Dubai based property firm is giving away a free car with every commitment to purchase an apartment over the next three weeks. And according to Mohammed Ouhitt at its Mayfair office, you won’t just get any car. A studio or one-bed apartment, starting from £120,000, comes with a BMW 1-Series, while if you nab one of its signature penthouses you’ll be driving home in a Bentley.

It seems crass and desperate, but you can understand DAMAC’s logic. Sentiment is beginning to turn against the city’s property sector, as visitors to the city begin to realise that a building site-cum-beach, ski and shopping destination, where Blackberry-touting, sharp-suited corporate lawyers mix freely in hotel bars with Bermuda short-wearing 40 somethings, isn’t exactly an ideal tourist destination.

Or a place to buy a holiday apartment...


----------



## rexdmx

^^ this shouldnt be a problem to a long term investor to be quite frank with you and the analysis was a bit too extreme and probably didnt take place of the fundamental facts surrounding the real estate prices...: there are a lot of ppl still coming because relatively speaking dubai is more attractive than other places


----------



## Imre

Emaar selling again the Burj Dubai, Burj Dubai Lake Hotel,South Ridge , Residences etc... from 9th of February.

I have heard :

Burj Views 2000-2800 dhs/sqft
South Ridge,Residences,The Old Town 3000-3200 dhs/sqft
Dubai Mall Hotel and Burj Dubai Lake Hotel 5000-5800 dhs/sqft


----------



## jacobdxb

again, if you look at any development in Dubai at any given time, there is between 20-100 apartments for sale per development in Gulf News. The average apartment is listed with 4 agents, meaning, that the real figure is 5-25 apartments per development at any time up for sale.

A development has between 150 apartments (1 tower) to 6500 apartments (JBR) and even 25000 apartments (discovery gardens - which is phased, meaning probably only 4000-5000 apartments up for handover now).

I don't think that 3-4 % apartments for sale per development at any given point in time is showing any kind of slowdown. moreover if you count in, that each apartment is probably traded at average every 6 months or so from offplan to completion, this certainly means, that there are still loads of buyers out there...

any comments pls?


----------



## High Times

^^

I've always considered myself a reasonably intelligent sort of bloke, but i fail misserably in understanding what on earth your talking about there. :nuts:


----------



## jacobdxb

^^, in gnads4u.com you search for example JBR, for sale, any price, and up comes about 200 hits. A lot of these are the same listings as agents run the ads more than once. The list goes about 2 weeks back max. so by filtering out the duplicate ads from the same agency you get about 100 hits max.

out of these 100 hits, the same apartment is probably listed with 4 different agents, who are all advertising in Gulf News. By filtering out these duplicate sales ads for the *same* apartment (you have to call up some of the agents to actually know this as most do not include complete apartment details) you probably come down to about 20-40 unique hits. These unique hits are the *actual* number of apartments for sale in JBR today.

I think 40 apartments for sale in a development with 6500 apartments is very scarce indeed - this is *less* than 1 % of all apartments in this project.

In top cities in Scandinavia (Copenhagen, Oslo, Stockholm), there were at any one day more than 20% of a project up for resale before and after completion, and prices were still rising!! Only when the figures passed 40% of the total number of units in these developments, the prices started to stagnate and after 6-12 more months, fall.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Would be interesting to monitor time on the market also. How long does it take to sell a JBR unit for example. Days, weeks, months ?


----------



## jacobdxb

^^ definitely! I think, that if someone took the time and studied this carefully, you could learn a lot about the market. Also, one could start to get a picture of asking prices (per sqft for comparable properties) vs time on the market etc...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai needs a good real estate website such as rightmove.co.uk in the uk which monitors such stuff. Is there anything like that out there now?


----------



## mackie1964

Let us do one then


----------



## Imre

jacobdxb said:


> I think 40 apartments for sale in a development with 6500 apartments is very scarce indeed - this is less than 1 % of all apartments in this project.


just a small info (gossip), apr 30% of the JBR was never sold...so 2000 apartments not in the market


----------



## jacobdxb

Imre said:


> just a small info (gossip), apr 30% of the JBR was never sold...so 2000 apartments not in the market


...well then the percentage is even less... or 2000 apartments just waiting to hit the JBR market... :doh:


----------



## jacobdxb

Imre said:


> just a small info (gossip), apr 30% of the JBR was never sold...so 2000 apartments not in the market


I also heard that a couple of investors bought 4 or 5 towers... but 12 towers not on the market is a lot, however if you drive by JBR at night I think there is light on in more apartments in most of the towers, or??


----------



## jacobdxb

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dubai needs a good real estate website such as rightmove.co.uk in the uk which monitors such stuff. Is there anything like that out there now?


alineah.com made an effort at it, but I think they are mainly promoting their own apartments for sale at the Dubai Murano Real Estate Broker... As such, I think its not representing the general market, just their oppinion on how the prices should be...


----------



## Imre

jacobdxb said:


> I also heard that a couple of investors bought 4 or 5 towers... but 12 towers not on the market is a lot, however if you drive by JBR at night I think there is light on in more apartments in most of the towers, or??


yes, somebody has 200 apartments but the 2000 different, that is another story and will not be on the market soon


----------



## Monument

In Hong Kong, on most past and present major developments, the developer will keep between 20-50% of the flats themselves. 

Two main reasons (apart from the fact they make sufficient money on selling 50-80% to make good profits):
1) It creates scarcity value and agents can say from day one, to buyers, "only 50% are left for sale", etc.
2) They can make good money on rent and short term lets and get even further capital appreciation over time.

I suspect similar is happening in major developments in Dubai - certainly it happened big time in JBR.


----------



## googly

When you want to buy property, there are no units available and when you want to sell your property, there are no buyers and many units are available. Therefore, when you want to buy property, prices are 20% higher and when you want to sell, prices are 20% lower. 

Thats the game being played worldwide by real estate agents/developers to fleece the common man.


----------



## abf

Absolutely agree with above point. This went on for a long time in markets like Spain. but as with tourist destinations in sunny tourist spots in Spain mortgaged properties are not the norm hence you don't come across a lot of property in the market


----------



## abf

Absolutely agree with above point. This went on for a long time in markets like Spain. but as with tourist destinations in sunny tourist spots in Spain mortgaged properties are not the norm hence you don't come across a lot of property in the market


----------



## doable

Imre said:


> I have heard :
> 
> Burj Views 2000-2800 dhs/sqft
> South Ridge,Residences,The Old Town 3000-3200 dhs/sqft
> Dubai Mall Hotel and Burj Dubai Lake Hotel 5000-5800 dhs/sqft


If Emaar will be selling Dubai Mall Hotel or Burj Dubai Lake Hotel at 5,000 dhs/sqft this will be too expensive. The question will be can we get 10% income from this investment (annual rent). If one bedroom is 800 sqft @5,000 dhs it will be 4.0M dhs. I doubt it will get 400,000 dhs income per year. Any feedback?


----------



## lovedubai

Cayan are launching a project in Jumeirah Village soon. It's not an area I know. Does anyone have any views / knowledge about this area? Thanks.


----------



## dubaifirst

doable said:


> If Emaar will be selling Dubai Mall Hotel or Burj Dubai Lake Hotel at 5,000 dhs/sqft this will be too expensive. The question will be can we get 10% income from this investment (annual rent). If one bedroom is 800 sqft @5,000 dhs it will be 4.0M dhs. I doubt it will get 400,000 dhs income per year. Any feedback?


If you spend 4.0M on one bed,no way you will get 10% rental income, IMO people who pay this sort of money will probably be looking for capital appreciation or use it for own leisure. The current annual rent in the marina for 1 bed is around 100k and the 2 bed 120k to 130k. No one knows whether the rent will keep rising or stabilize in 2010.


----------



## bizzybonita

i think it's investment for buy not to rent anymore with those expensive prices ..


----------



## dubaiprojects

Hi All,

Can some one please tell me what is the project name for the empty plot behind silverene plot (3A,3B) facing JLT side? That plot is empty and I could not find any link in sky scrapercity?

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4579/silvereneloctd8.jpg
in the above silverene is not marked (thats ok) but i like to the adjacent plot below it facing shk zaid road?

cheers


----------



## jeetha

lovedubai said:


> Cayan are launching a project in Jumeirah Village soon. It's not an area I know. Does anyone have any views / knowledge about this area? Thanks.


It was all hush-hush. Cayan sold all in 1 day, so I was told. And now available with 10% Premium and 2% Agent’s fee. Only very large 1 bed or above remaining….. even with the premium.

As someone else pointed out earlier Jumeirah Village South, is the biggest gamble of this century.


----------



## jeetha

dubaiprojects said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Can some one please tell me what is the project name for the empty plot behind silverene plot (3A,3B) facing JLT side? That plot is empty and I could not find any link in sky scrapercity?
> [/IMG]


I was assessing the same………. it’s a very big plot. I’m pretty sure it’s not Cayan’s. Maybe it belongs to Emaar???. Hopefully they will put a park or playground there.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

*Hundreds queue all night for Burj Dubai units*

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/510758-hundreds-queue-all-night-for-burj-dubai-units?ln=en

In unprecedented scenes, some buyers are thought to have paid nearly 8 million dirhams ($2.18 million) for one bedroom apartments in the Burj itself, and over 2 million dirhams for one bedroom apartments in Downtown Burj Dubai.


----------



## mackie1964

Madness, what am I missing here? hno:


----------



## jeetha

^^The dosh…….!
Sorry could not resist.

:lol:


----------



## jacobdxb

does anybody want to rent a 1 bedroom in Marina Promenade, Paloma building, high floor, sea/jbr-facing for 6 months unfurnished (but with the pre-installed white goods)? Handover is in 3-4 weeks, so that would be the rental start. Pls PM me if interested.


----------



## OmarPERU

How come you say "handover is in 3-4 weeks"???


----------



## jacobdxb

OmarPERU said:


> How come you say "handover is in 3-4 weeks"???


sorry, I meant the snagging appointment...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Morten_Denmark said:


> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/510758-hundreds-queue-all-night-for-burj-dubai-units?ln=en
> 
> In unprecedented scenes, some buyers are thought to have paid nearly 8 million dirhams ($2.18 million) for one bedroom apartments in the Burj itself, and over 2 million dirhams for one bedroom apartments in Downtown Burj Dubai.


How much were similar 1 beds in the Burj itself at launch out of interest ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Ten reasons Dubai real estate will continue to boom*

_Dubai real estate may well be the next asset class bubble to be created by inappropriate interest rate levels set by the US, alongside Hong Kong property. But there are at least 10 good reasons to think the present realty boom in Dubai will continue for rather longer than many outside observers believe possible._

1. Dubai mortgage rates are around 8.5 per cent and have yet to adjust to the recent US rate cuts, which they have to do because of the dollar peg to the dirham. Just a couple of years ago local mortgage rates of seven per cent were available. Therefore the downward pressure on the cost of home finance is clear, and if the local mortgage market follows Hong Kong and becomes more competitive, then interest rates could go much lower, making it significantly cheaper to buy than rent. Real interest rates are already negative due to high local inflation. 

2. Rental yields in the Dubai market of 7-10 per cent are abnormally high by international standards. Rents are unlikely to fall in a booming market, so it is more likely that rising capital values will gradually pressure yields down towards global levels. There is no reason why rental yields should be higher in a booming city like Dubai than in a city where the economic outlook is poorer. 

3. The hype about Dubai development projects has admittedly duped even this skeptical correspondent over the years. The fact is that far less supply is coming on stream than promised by overenthusiastic developers, due partly to limited supplies of manpower and materials. Dubai Properties is one of the biggest and has just said it will deliver 5,000 units to the freehold market in 2008 which is not nearly enough to meet surging demand. 

4. Dubai house prices are still low in absolute terms in comparison to other global cities with similar salary levels. The HSBC survey of house prices in comparison to per capita GDP put Dubai and Abu Dhabi near the bottom. This is a historic anomaly that will be eliminated by price rises. 

5. Six years ago, when Dubai freehold began, it was a market without any formal legislation and regulatory infrastructure. Now it has world-class laws, a state-of-the-art land registry and a strongly-led regulatory authority. Hope has been replaced by experience. 

6. The Dubai Financial Market crashed in 2006 pushing local investors into property as an alternative. It recovered in late 2007, but is now again trending downwards with global stocks, and has become highly volatile, shifting over 10 per cent in a day. Expect stock market participants to again seek a more stable alternative. 

7. Indeed, the absence of investment alternatives is a major theme for 2008. Global stock markets have had their worst January in history. Recent US interest rate cuts leave deposits paying 2.8 per cent. This makes Dubai real estate look attractive as an alternative. Where else offers such a return? 

8. In the same way that the local stock market crash attracted foreign bargain hunters to invest last year, foreign investors in search of yield are also increasingly investing in Dubai real estate. Problems in the UK housing market might be dissuading some buyers, but large numbers of oil-rich Russians, for example, are now buying in Dubai. 

9. Dubai still has some undeveloped market niches in real estate, such as holiday lets and fractional ownership, which are big and even dominant market phenomena in many beach resorts around the world. This source of higher rental yield on property has therefore yet to be fully tapped. 

10. The Dubai Government has been the most proactive developer in the emirate, and its recent legislation and regulatory initiatives suggest that this support is not only likely to continue, but will respond appropriately to any adverse market developments.


----------



## yecabel

do you guys think that the recent weeks' bad press about tourists being held and even imprisoned for carrying medical drugs into the country is going to affect the attitude of tourists towards dubai and put off some investors?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

not investors but it may affect tourism a tiny amount for a little while for those who have never visited Dubai and are a little afraid of the middle east.


----------



## jacobdxb

Dubai_Steve said:


> *Ten reasons Dubai real estate will continue to boom*
> 
> _Dubai real estate may well be the next asset class bubble to be created by inappropriate interest rate levels set by the US, alongside Hong Kong property. But there are at least 10 good reasons to think the present realty boom in Dubai will continue for rather longer than many outside observers believe possible._
> 
> 1. Dubai mortgage rates are around 8.5 per cent and have yet to adjust to the recent US rate cuts, which they have to do because of the dollar peg to the dirham. Just a couple of years ago local mortgage rates of seven per cent were available. Therefore the downward pressure on the cost of home finance is clear, and if the local mortgage market follows Hong Kong and becomes more competitive, then interest rates could go much lower, making it significantly cheaper to buy than rent. Real interest rates are already negative due to high local inflation.
> 
> 2. Rental yields in the Dubai market of 7-10 per cent are abnormally high by international standards. Rents are unlikely to fall in a booming market, so it is more likely that rising capital values will gradually pressure yields down towards global levels. There is no reason why rental yields should be higher in a booming city like Dubai than in a city where the economic outlook is poorer.
> 
> 3. The hype about Dubai development projects has admittedly duped even this skeptical correspondent over the years. The fact is that far less supply is coming on stream than promised by overenthusiastic developers, due partly to limited supplies of manpower and materials. Dubai Properties is one of the biggest and has just said it will deliver 5,000 units to the freehold market in 2008 which is not nearly enough to meet surging demand.
> 
> 4. Dubai house prices are still low in absolute terms in comparison to other global cities with similar salary levels. The HSBC survey of house prices in comparison to per capita GDP put Dubai and Abu Dhabi near the bottom. This is a historic anomaly that will be eliminated by price rises.
> 
> 5. Six years ago, when Dubai freehold began, it was a market without any formal legislation and regulatory infrastructure. Now it has world-class laws, a state-of-the-art land registry and a strongly-led regulatory authority. Hope has been replaced by experience.
> 
> 6. The Dubai Financial Market crashed in 2006 pushing local investors into property as an alternative. It recovered in late 2007, but is now again trending downwards with global stocks, and has become highly volatile, shifting over 10 per cent in a day. Expect stock market participants to again seek a more stable alternative.
> 
> 7. Indeed, the absence of investment alternatives is a major theme for 2008. Global stock markets have had their worst January in history. Recent US interest rate cuts leave deposits paying 2.8 per cent. This makes Dubai real estate look attractive as an alternative. Where else offers such a return?
> 
> 8. In the same way that the local stock market crash attracted foreign bargain hunters to invest last year, foreign investors in search of yield are also increasingly investing in Dubai real estate. Problems in the UK housing market might be dissuading some buyers, but large numbers of oil-rich Russians, for example, are now buying in Dubai.
> 
> 9. Dubai still has some undeveloped market niches in real estate, such as holiday lets and fractional ownership, which are big and even dominant market phenomena in many beach resorts around the world. This source of higher rental yield on property has therefore yet to be fully tapped.
> 
> 10. The Dubai Government has been the most proactive developer in the emirate, and its recent legislation and regulatory initiatives suggest that this support is not only likely to continue, but will respond appropriately to any adverse market developments.


^^ where did you find this article? I would like to read the rest (if there is more to read).


----------



## DubaiMarina

http://www.ameinfo.com/146317.html


----------



## dubaifirst

Am right to say that all new launches and resales nearing completion in good location in the marina are now starting at 2000AED?


----------



## mackie1964

Interesting Article!

I don't usually read the mail but a colleague forwarded this to me:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=511838&in_page_id=1879


----------



## bizzybonita

it's of course more then 10 for local and arab peoples


----------



## Naz UK

Bizzy, are you EmiratiGirl? Because the level of your English is like a yoyo on here.


----------



## High Times

Mmmmmmmmm

Quite a few double personalaties on here There are. :wink2:


----------



## AltinD

^^ You should have used another smiley ... the Big (not in stature) Master was green afterall.


----------



## High Times

^^^^

The force is strong in this one...................


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Taht reminds me where has Tate gone


----------



## bizzybonita

Naz UK said:


> Bizzy, are you EmiratiGirl? Because the level of your English is like a yoyo on here.


no racism ! welcome to dubai


----------



## Wannaberich

jacobdxb said:


> ^^ where did you find this article? I would like to read the rest (if there is more to read).


Try also Dubai Chronicle on-line.
I read the same report and found it very interesting.Trouble is I've read 2-3 reports put together by banks or investment companies and their opinions slightly conflict.One says 2009 for oversupply,another says 2011 or 2012.
They also give different numbers for how many units will be ready per year.
I like to read actual facts rather than peoples opinions.On Dubai Chronicle there is a report from the Ministry Of Labour stating that the amount of visas/permits applied for in 2007 was down on 2006,it was an in-depth report with facts and figures.Not good news but better to read then rumours.


----------



## jeetha

Naz UK said:


> Bizzy, are you EmiratiGirl? Because the level of your English is like a yoyo on here.


He/She…… is going to keep you in suspense?


----------



## worried1

*5 star hotel investments*

Does somebody have an idea as to what a 700 sq ft suite in a 5 star hotel wpould run per night?

I am running some numbers for my Movenpick in the laguna tower in JLT and wanted a realistic room rate, and for occupancy I am using 85%

Any thoughts/comments


----------



## IISinbadII

Wannaberich said:


> Try also Dubai Chronicle on-line.
> I read the same report and found it very interesting.Trouble is I've read 2-3 reports put together by banks or investment companies and their opinions slightly conflict.One says 2009 for oversupply,another says 2011 or 2012.
> They also give different numbers for how many units will be ready per year.
> I like to read actual facts rather than peoples opinions.On Dubai Chronicle there is a report from the Ministry Of Labour stating that the amount of visas/permits applied for in 2007 was down on 2006,it was an in-depth report with facts and figures.Not good news but better to read then rumours.


What I have noticed is that if you go to different developments, many flats and villas are Empty. I think people are afraid to give their units out on rent because of the laws. Once you give your unit out, you can't vacate it for 3 years! So it is hard to sell units with a tenant. Also they cant show their units to potential buyers. Investors keep their units empty waiting for the price to appriciate. Because of this factor you need many more units than needed to fill the demand. Also there are long delays. So it is hard to predict when there would be an oversupply.


----------



## glover

*Developers buying units for resale*

_now that's something if true and on a large scale
_-----------------
By Eudore R Chand on Tuesday, February 12 , 2008
emirates business 24/7

The rising per square feet rates in upcoming real estate projects – especially along Sheikh Zayed Road – have encouraged some developers to enter the secondary market to buy out units they had previously sold at less than Dh1,000 per sq ft.

They plan to hold such units until construction is completed and then offload them at the much higher prevailing rates, which are going up almost on a daily basis, industry insiders told Emirates Business.

At least two developers in the Business Bay area have been active in the secondary real estate market, with one of them offering to buy back units at Dh1,500 to Dh1,600 per sq ft, they pointed out.

This phenomenon emerged when such developers saw the likes of Emaar and Deyaar sell their new launches in the same Business Bay area for prices ranging from Dh2,100 to Dh3,000 per sq ft.

Sources close to one of the developers dabbling in the secondary market said he has re-bought unfinished units he had previously sold at a small premium and now plans to resell the same units for Dh2,500 per sqft or higher.

Prices in the Business Bay area have risen substantially in the past few weeks ranging from Dh1,600 to Dh2,200 per square foot or higher depending on the property, its amenities and its location.

When projects were first launched in the area, buyers had been able to purchase units at Dh800 to Dh1,200 per sq ft. Some of the owners are now offering the same properties in the secondary market at up to Dh2,200 per sq ft.

Real estate agents predict that the lower levels in the current price ranges will vanish in the short to medium term and that average prices in the Business Bay area will edge towards the upper limit of Dh2,400 or more.


----------



## dubaifirst

We going to have to accept now that 2 k/sq ft and over is the norm for prime areas.


----------



## Monument

IISinbadII said:


> What I have noticed is that if you go to different developments, many flats and villas are Empty. I think people are afraid to give their units out on rent because of the laws. Once you give your unit out, you can't vacate it for 3 years! So it is hard to sell units with a tenant. Also they cant show their units to potential buyers. Investors keep their units empty waiting for the price to appriciate. Because of this factor you need many more units than needed to fill the demand. Also there are long delays. So it is hard to predict when there would be an oversupply.


This is what rent laws do - they are VERY counter-productive. 

They actually encourage people NOT to rent out their property - further increasing pressure on rental pricing. 

Mumbai, India was a perfect example of this - still is. Once you get into an apartment there it was almost impossible to get the tenant out - landlords therefore locked up their apartments or would only rent to foreigners (the very few who live there) who they knew would leave within 2-3 years. And rental pricing for really poor quality flats are absurd as a consequence.

Rent laws are one of the most negative things you can do to a market.


----------



## AltinD

^^ Locking of the apartments and not renting it out until the prices increased, has been done even before the rent cap was introduced.


----------



## Naz UK

Maybe its EmiratiGirl's husband. Back for revenge. Watch out Altin. I'm safe. Nobody can attack humour. Full stops are cool.


----------



## High Times

Dubai_Steve said:


> Taht reminds me where has Tate gone


Paris maybe ?


----------



## bizzybonita

Naz UK said:


> Maybe its EmiratiGirl's husband. Back for revenge. Watch out Altin. I'm safe. Nobody can attack humour. Full stops are cool.


it's all good when u get punk'd dude ..


----------



## Dubai_Steve

IISinbadII said:


> Once you give your unit out, you can't vacate it for 3 years! So it is hard to sell units with a tenant. Also they cant show their units to potential buyers. Investors keep their units empty waiting for the price to appriciate. Because of this factor you need many more units than needed to fill the demand. Also there are long delays. So it is hard to predict when there would be an oversupply.


That is a very good point. If they corrected this law so that rental contracts are on a 6 monthly renewable contract (as in the UK) then landlords could get the tannant out with 6 months notice then there would be much more supply on the market.

Perhaps Dubai want it the other way so that they can show a false demand by forcing landlords not to rent out their units !


----------



## DubaiMarina

*Developers buying units for resale*

*Developers buying units for resale*

http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=2128


----------



## High Times

^^

Interesting article,

I dont think this will be "the norm" especially in the Marina, but this is yet more evidence that the whole market in Dubai is being propped up, or even falsely inflated by developers.

This backs up what i was pointing out on page 251 of this thread.

If this practice becomes more widespread then the investment fundamentals of Dubai could be changing.

Basically "the real end user" in this market is in short supply, for many, many reasons.


----------



## AltinD

The developers are buying back their units to recover some of the losses because they sold the apartments off-plan for cheap.


----------



## High Times

^^

So what individual investor in their right mind would sell their unit back to a developer for the developer to hold until completion then sell for even more profit ?:nuts:

Is anyone really that nieve.

If they are please PM me as I have several bottles of water for sale that looks like just ordinary water but trust me it is really very special water and in years to come will be worth a fortune. honest.


----------



## AltinD

^^ Many people bought for sale, some even beyond their budged.


----------



## High Times

^^

Your absolutely right Altin,

Does that remind you of anywhere ? ? ?



I sincerley hope not, but i dont like the way that the BIG FISH are manipulating things in Dubai it makes me nervous


----------



## Morten_Denmark

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> Your absolutely right Altin,
> 
> Does that remind you of anywhere ? ? ?
> 
> 
> I sincerley hope not, but i dont like the way that the BIG FISH are manipulating things in Dubai it makes me nervous


I have to agree - I am well invested in Dubai and would benefit - but these prices hikes makes me very nervous and reminds me of Denmark 2-3 years ago. Prices in Copenhagen has fallen around 25% the last 18 months and the people which bought at the peak and now being divorced or in a situation where they have to sell are in problems. I know I can not compare - but I can compare the feelings people had - I actually bought a VERY expensive apartment in 2006 and the last thing the real estate guy said was - "..in two years time this apartment is much much more worth - I can gurantee..". I dont blame him as I really took him as a moron - but I have to admit that I was also very sure that prices would in worst case go sideways....


----------



## IISinbadII

Morten_Denmark said:


> I have to agree - I am well invested in Dubai and would benefit - but these prices hikes makes me very nervous and reminds me of Denmark 2-3 years ago. Prices in Copenhagen has fallen around 25% the last 18 months and the people which bought at the peak and now being divorced or in a situation where they have to sell are in problems. I know I can not compare - but I can compare the feelings people had - I actually bought a VERY expensive apartment in 2006 and the last thing the real estate guy said was - "..in two years time this apartment is much much more worth - I can gurantee..". I dont blame him as I really took him as a moron - but I have to admit that I was also very sure that prices would in worst case go sideways....


People say Dubai is an exception, but property has cycles. Its the nature of this business. Having said that, some factors on investors side are the rising construction costs, long delays and the expected revaluation of the Dirham.


----------



## Hanna

*Cycles*



IISinbadII said:


> People say Dubai is an exception, but property has cycles. Its the nature of this business. Having said that, some factors on investors side are the rising construction costs, long delays and the expected revaluation of the Dirham.


Hi

Its all a lot of if and butts at present I think you pays your money you take 
your chance's.Say the USA completed a first strike in Iran what would happen 
in the middle east then, would all the investors run for cover and dump there 
properties ! who knows what will happen in the future ! nobody so take the 
chance and if it all comes out rosy in the Garden fine.

Only my view of the future I have been known to get it wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!! enough said.:cheers:


----------



## rexdmx

^^...and who would want to buy their properties in such a situation... a good asset remains a good asset..war or no war


----------



## AITU

^^ I don't really see war as an issue for here. You may find that prices increase further when several million Iranians leave their country - where will they go? Dubai would be high on the list......


----------



## Hanna

rexdmx said:


> ^^...and who would want to buy their properties in such a situation... a good asset remains a good asset..war or no war


Hi rexdmx

I couldn't agree more ' a good asset remains a good asset' so why do people
say what if this happens and what if that happens, if you new the future you would be a billionaire many times over. :cheers:


----------



## Hanna

AITU said:


> ^^ I don't really see war as an issue for here. You may find that prices increase further when several million Iranians leave their country - where will they go? Dubai would be high on the list......


Hi AITU

Why go to Dubai every man and their dog is heading for the UK for some reason
and can't for the life of me the reason why ! high taxes, property at astronomical prices,street crime everywhere,police CCTV state, inflation running at around 15% but the government insist it is 2.1% the list goes on
and on and I have little time to explain the full failings but they still come.:cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

Dh1 trillion worth investment expected in Abu Dhabi real estate sector 


Inaugurating the 2-day Arabian World Construction Summit in Abu Dhabi, Shaikha Lubna Al Qasimi, UAE Minister of Economy, said the construction sector contributed Dh40 billion to Abu Dhabi's GDP in 2007 and real estate sector is expected to attract Dh1 trillion investments in the long-term. The real estate and construction sectors were poised to become the nation's new growth drivers.

Shaikha Lubna said, “These two sectors will combine to contribute around 23% in country's economy by 2010 from 16 per cent in 2006. In order to secure the resources available to ensure project continuity, there is a need for strategies to be prepared ".

Shaikha Lubna said that Abu Dhabi has earmarked a staggering 51% of its budget for non-oil segments for construction projects in the next 5 years. She urged the participants to come up with solutions to the challenges being faced by the construction industry, as more developers and investors continue to flock to the Gulf.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai Real Estate Institute launches new course on realty negotiations

Dubai Real Estate Institute (DREI), the first specialized real estate institution in the region, has announced the launch of its first High Impact Real Estate Negotiations course, a 3-day program to be held from 17-19 February 2008. Developed in cooperation with the S.A.B. Negotiation Group and Prof. Haroon Ullah from Harvard University’s Kenney School of Government, the executive programme is customized to serve the unique needs of the UAE Real Estate market. 

Dr. Mohamed Al Shehhi, Managing Director, DREI, said, “Led by Prof. Haroon Ullah, this intensive negotiation programme will enhance the critical skills and provide the needed strategies, tools and techniques managers must master to become successful deal-makers”.

The course at Dubai Real Estate Institute will highlight subjects including Fundamentals of Negotiations, The “Negotiators’ Tool Box”, Personality Profiling and Making an Argument, Power and Persuasion and Negotiations in Groups and Across Cultures. The programme is the first of its kind in the Middle East in terms of content and focus.


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> People say Dubai is an exception, but property has cycles. Its the nature of this business. Having said that, some factors on investors side are the rising construction costs, long delays and the expected revaluation of the Dirham.


Sinbad, I like you. You are very optimistic about Dubai. 

If property prices rise by more than, say, 30% a year, there should be cause for concern. What rises exponentially, falls even faster. Small time investors like us should be very careful as greed can cause our downfall. It is not in our interest (or in the interest of Dubai or its residents) for prices to rise so rapidly.


----------



## FWIW

IISinbadII said:


> People say Dubai is an exception, but property has cycles. Its the nature of this business. Having said that, some factors on investors side are the rising construction costs, long delays and the expected revaluation of the Dirham.


All bubbles burst.
It's just a matter of timing on when to enter and when to leave.
I think the UK bubble is well and truly deflating... see here  www.housepricecrash.co.uk and www.globalhousepricecrash.com

Maybe the lucky ones who got out of uk property need somewhere to invest their money now. Dubai is still an ideal choice and has the appeal of a holiday/retire there destination.

But make no mistake - if things go very bad in Dubai, then many investors will pull back whatever they can from Dubai.


----------



## googly

FWIW said:


> All bubbles burst.
> It's just a matter of timing on when to enter and when to leave...
> 
> But make no mistake - if things go very bad in Dubai, then many investors will pull back whatever they can from Dubai.


And bubbles get burst by the big players in the market. They first inflate the bubble and then suddenly leave! Its us small timers who are left to weep. 

Having said that, we havent seen the bubble burst yet though many *experts* predicted it would happen by now. If immigration to Dubai keeps on increasing and returns to investors are good (and not astronomically good), Dubai should be able to sidestep the bubble, at least for the near future. If not, its time for us to start sweating. :bash:


----------



## IISinbadII

googly said:


> If property prices rise by more than, say, 30% a year, there should be cause for concern. What rises exponentially, falls even faster. Small time investors like us should be very careful as greed can cause our downfall. It is not in our interest (or in the interest of Dubai or its residents) for prices to rise so rapidly.


So what should be the strategy? How to play the Dubai market.


----------



## Morrismarina

Hanna said:


> Hi AITU
> 
> Why go to Dubai every man and their dog is heading for the UK for some reason
> and can't for the life of me the reason why ! high taxes, property at astronomical prices,street crime everywhere,police CCTV state, inflation running at around 15% but the government insist it is 2.1% the list goes on
> and on and I have little time to explain the full failings but they still come.:cheers:



They all come to the UK coz we're so daft that we let any bugger in !! Hardly any restrictions now. We're even letting in people from Albania who shouldn't be here as it's not part of the EU, though nobody has told the Government yet. And a load of African nations, for instance the country is now full of Nigerians. These foreigners get in on the back of seeking asylum and then get handed out loads of welfare money, free house, free health on the NHS etc. etc. They come because they know we're a soft touch. And they receive PERMANENT rights to stay FOREVER in the UK. Wouldn't happen in Dubai, no way, no such thing as permenant residency, they're not so bloody stupid as the UK. :bash:


----------



## IISinbadII

ferrari430 said:


> guys, going from here what will be the best place to invest in the bext 2 years or so. I know this question must ahve been asked umpteen times but I have a theroy and a favourite location and I want to test my theory.
> 
> We all know of the huge growth BB had last year but this has been mainly in offices as there are a lack of them currently and BB is prime area but priced like DM and JLT which are less prime. In early 2007 BB generally was priced (ei 1200 - 1400 dirhams psf), So it had to have a hike
> 
> Now with over 200 towers and 70% of them offices - long term I think offices might be slightly risky given the shear volume being completed in the coming years.
> 
> But if we just assume that 70% of all these offices are occupied all these employees will want a place to stay and hopefully lot of them would prefer or pay premium for walking from work.
> 
> Given this scenario just 30% BB devoted to residences I think will fall short and there will be a lot of scraping for these premium residences both to buy and to let.
> 
> Also keep in mind that residential in BB can be picked up for well under 2000 DHS still - in lot of cases 1600 - 1800 dhs psf - where as in nearby Burj Dubai we are looking at 3000 dhs psf and maybe even a bit more in DIFC. there are no othere residences here apart from these.
> 
> So my prediction is that studios/1/beds in BB (lets say in almost completed executive towers) stand to be one of the best buys looking forward 2 years. These will probably reach 3000 or more dhs psf by then


In my layman's view, BB residential is good and BB office space is even better. Any thing in downtown is kay: kay:


----------



## jacobdxb

^^ which of the big 3 developers (Nakheel, Dubai Properties & Emaar) are active in BB (if any) and what residential project(s) from these developers would you recommend?


----------



## Salameer

jacobdxb said:


> ^^ which of the big 3 developers (Nakheel, Dubai Properties & Emaar) are active in BB (if any) and what residential project(s) from these developers would you recommend?


As far as I know DP is the master developer. Basically, anything that gets built in the next 3 years is bound to appreciate x%. However, you should do your own research and not be led by anyone on this forum. :cheers:


----------



## Imre

Business Bay would be the winner of end 2008 and 2009, I was there last week ,one road almost ready another 1-2 new roads need 5-6 months, after everybody can go inside and see what happening there.
prices around 2000 dhs/sqft now,but I think we will see the 3000 dhs/sqft soon.


----------



## agod

ferrari430 said:


> guys, going from here what will be the best place to invest in the bext 2 years or so. I know this question must ahve been asked umpteen times but I have a theroy and a favourite location and I want to test my theory.
> 
> We all know of the huge growth BB had last year but this has been mainly in offices as there are a lack of them currently and BB is prime area but priced like DM and JLT which are less prime. In early 2007 BB generally was priced (ei 1200 - 1400 dirhams psf), So it had to have a hike
> 
> Now with over 200 towers and 70% of them offices - long term I think offices might be slightly risky given the shear volume being completed in the coming years.
> 
> But if we just assume that 70% of all these offices are occupied all these employees will want a place to stay and hopefully lot of them would prefer or pay premium for walking from work.
> 
> Given this scenario just 30% BB devoted to residences I think will fall short and there will be a lot of scraping for these premium residences both to buy and to let.
> 
> Also keep in mind that residential in BB can be picked up for well under 2000 DHS still - in lot of cases 1600 - 1800 dhs psf - where as in nearby Burj Dubai we are looking at 3000 dhs psf and maybe even a bit more in DIFC. there are no othere residences here apart from these.
> 
> So my prediction is that studios/1/beds in BB (lets say in almost completed executive towers) stand to be one of the best buys looking forward 2 years. These will probably reach 3000 or more dhs psf by then



India if you mean outside of Dubai, or perhaps a villa on a beach in Thailand.

I personally love Commercial property,  long term lease's with yearly reviews, and all you do is provide the shell and the tenant furnishes it, but watch out for one thing, the reason I would not have a residential property in a Business District, is most die at night, I had a city centre pub in Bristol, and it was a dead as a Do-Do at night, no one hung about there after work, I think you will find the same in any Major city that has a CBD, Canary Wharf, empty, City of London, Empty, you boy's from all over the world, could point out a few more, as we all should know how big thriving place's during the day, turn into morgues at night.

Alan


----------



## was2103

IISinbadII said:


> I understand your point of view. But I want you to ponder over a few points before selling everything.
> 
> Point 1
> Have you seen the Megaproject video? Dubai story is just in the beginning phase. Dubai is becoming the business hub of the reagion....we have already seen this happening. But what we have not seen yet, is that it is about to become the No. 1 tourist destination (of this reagion) too. All the Dubailand projects and theme parks are yet to come.
> 
> Point 2
> No matter what people say, property has cycles. And supply and demand does have an effect on the prices. So at some point a correction could happen.
> 
> Point 3
> We also know that in the long run, property prices go Up. (remember land is limited, and population is growing).
> 
> 
> So what should one do?
> -Buy all (because of pont No.1)
> -Sell all (because of pont No.2)
> 
> In my opinion both are extreme measures. I understand you have more than one properties. A midline approach (for you) could be to sell a few, and let stay a few. Sell what you have which is e.g. not at a good location, and let stay what is e.g. at a good location. This way you will not regret (that much) no matter what happens to the market.
> 
> Think about it.


Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated.

I'm going to have to carefully observe the trends at the end of the year. I might reassess my options then, if there is still strong demand for my stock.

I would hate to be stuck in the downturn, trying to offload at below market prices. And as I am financed significantly, I do not have the pleaseure of keeping more than one property. All of my stock is in good locations...

Another factor that makes an exit interesting is that there are many opportunities to invest the capital in realestate on a short term basis here in Dubai. Realistic returns of 80 - 100% per year. I have to balance that against the expected gains on the existing units.


----------



## High Times

ferrari430 said:


> So my prediction is that studios/1/beds in BB (lets say in almost completed executive towers) stand to be one of the best buys looking forward 2 years. These will probably reach 3000 or more dhs psf by then


I'm not so sure that i agree with the theory that executive workers in BB would want to live there as well.

Surely the type of proffessional person that has a good job with a good income would want to live in a more sociable area with better liesure and pleasure facilities ?

When the metro is up and running i can see more proffessionals wanting to live in the Marina or even JLT as it will only be 30 mins away from Downtown areas.

I have woked in offices in big cities in the UK and my experience is that at the end of the day people want to get as far away from the office as possible so they can enjoy thier income and free time.

Just a thought.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think there may still be strong demand for good quality residential in BB. It is also a short distance from Burj Dubai and all the entertainment around there.


----------



## ferrari430

^^I rent out apartments in the canary wharf and next to city of london location (shoreditch). there is a always a huge demand for employess that want to walk to their work place


----------



## ferrari430

jacobdxb said:


> ^^ which of the big 3 developers (Nakheel, Dubai Properties & Emaar) are active in BB (if any) and what residential project(s) from these developers would you recommend?


DP are developing executive towers that are at the start of BB and are near completion. Also (im not sure) these could be near the metro


----------



## HarryKane

was2103 said:


> Another factor that makes an exit interesting is that there are many opportunities to invest the capital in realestate on a short term basis here in Dubai. Realistic returns of 80 - 100% per year.


Which real estate agency told you that?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think Imre made a good choice with Ubora tower. I am thinking to do the same but have to be quick.


----------



## AltinD

^^ If that girl in your avatar had red hair, I would have screamed: Run Lola, Run


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> I think Imre made a good choice with Ubora tower. I am thinking to do the same but have to be quick.


yes, I hope

They have apr 30 apartments ( 1 and 2 beds ) for sale now 2000-2080 dhs/sqft, rest of apartments they want to sell after the completion. 

But if you want to buy , you need to be quick, time is money


----------



## Dubai_Steve

AltinD said:


> ^^ If that girl in your avatar had red hair, I would have screamed: Run Lola, Run


AltinD, can you lend me AED 600,000 by Friday please ?


----------



## IISinbadII

HarryKane said:


> Which real estate agency told you that?


Br. was2103 is himself a real estate agent.


----------



## was2103

HarryKane said:


> Which real estate agency told you that?


Well, this is a personal effort. I'm not a realestate agent. But I have started to work with developers that are investing intelligently in some dubia developments.

I previously posted an add for a sports city opportunity. We (a consortium of investors) bought 100 units in a building (9 floors). We then designed the floor layouts, created some very basic merchandising material. These sold pre-launch within 3 weeks, without finance or advertising. The ROI is around 70% and if you're smart and connected, you can do this twice in 18 months. Without going into too much detail, this is what local investors are now doing, taking the money they made in the first round of the property boom and moving up the development chain.


----------



## IISinbadII

was2103 said:


> Well, this is a personal effort. I'm not a realestate agent. But I have started to work with developers that are investing intelligently in some dubia developments.
> 
> I previously posted an add for a sports city opportunity. We (a consortium of investors) bought 100 units in a building (9 floors). We then designed the floor layouts, created some very basic merchandising material. These sold pre-launch within 3 weeks, without finance or advertising. The ROI is around 70% and if you're smart and connected, you can do this twice in 18 months. Without going into too much detail, this is what local investors are now doing, taking the money they made in the first round of the property boom and moving up the development chain.


This is a form of "flipping". If you are anticipating a correction, how long do you think this could continue?


----------



## Greekgirl

Where is Ubora please?


----------



## jeetha

Greekgirl said:


> Where is Ubora please?


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=337299&page=13


----------



## Sheltie

Don't know if this is the right thread for this question but here goes. My next payment is due in March but I don't think there is an escrow account in place. It is for the Snowdome residences which I am dubious if it will ever get built.
If I don't pay the next installment I will be breaking the contract and they can take it off me but if I pay the next 2 installments and they haven't started building then I'm afraid in case they go feet up and I can't get my money back.
Any thoughts on this? Anyone else bought here?


----------



## AltinD

Dubai_Steve said:


> AltinD, can you lend me AED 600,000 by Friday please ?


Sorry, I can't ... but I see that you put Lola on. :rofl:


Did you know that Potente means powerful in Italian. Maybe that would explain why she's running restlessly all the time.


----------



## robertacg

Sheltie, 

Those are the sort of worries, that made me go for a developer like Deyaar.
All I can think, is for you to see if you can get a copy of their accounts maybe?

I dont think any developer has gone bust yet. 

Would the Ruler allow it ? I have much respect for autocratic dictators like the Ruler; they don't mess about ! Off with their collective heads!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Sheltie said:


> Don't know if this is the right thread for this question but here goes. My next payment is due in March but I don't think there is an escrow account in place. It is for the Snowdome residences which I am dubious if it will ever get built.
> If I don't pay the next installment I will be breaking the contract and they can take it off me but if I pay the next 2 installments and they haven't started building then I'm afraid in case they go feet up and I can't get my money back.
> Any thoughts on this? Anyone else bought here?


What do they say about the project and RERA when you call their offices ?

Office: Level 51, Emirates Towers Offices, Sheikh Zayed Rd, Dubai - UAE 
+9714 330 3332,


----------



## Morrismarina

robertacg said:


> Sheltie,
> 
> Those are the sort of worries, that made me go for a developer like Deyaar.
> All I can think, is for you to see if you can get a copy of their accounts maybe?
> 
> I dont think any developer has gone bust yet.
> 
> Would the Ruler allow it ? I have much respect for autocratic dictators like the Ruler; they don't mess about ! Off with their collective heads!


You don't know about Ayoub & Co and the Lighthouse tower in Dubai Marina ??


----------



## Morrismarina

Sheltie said:


> Don't know if this is the right thread for this question but here goes. My next payment is due in March but I don't think there is an escrow account in place. It is for the Snowdome residences which I am dubious if it will ever get built.
> If I don't pay the next installment I will be breaking the contract and they can take it off me but if I pay the next 2 installments and they haven't started building then I'm afraid in case they go feet up and I can't get my money back.
> Any thoughts on this? Anyone else bought here?


You need to write to them and tell them you will pay the next instalment only into the escrow account as per the law and ask for details so you can make your payment. I'd check with RERA to ensure they are registered and all is legitimate. 

What to do if they are non-compliant with RERA etc. ?? Guess you'll have to make a decision whether to proceed or not. You could say as they are not complying with the law that you are not paying and ask for all your money back, but not sure what redress you would have if they kept your money..... difficult decision. I'd certainly be very wary of any developer who does not want to play ball with RERA. I personally would not pay them any more monies if it was not going into escrow and I'd think about cutting my losses, especially if it's money you can't afford to lose, they've had long enough to get their act together and comply. You have to ask yourself WHY are they not complying. You seem to already have big doubts about them and is it worth all the sleepless nights ?? Even Wind & Schon are complying with the escrow law. I ducked out of buying with ACW at Kensington Manor in Jemeriah Village South end of last year as there was no escrow in place at the time and they were saying the account would not be open until March.......indicated they were well too dodgy an outfit IMO.
The majority of purchasers do not have the benefit of all the info here on SSC and no doubt have no idea about RERA and escrow accounts, some developers are clearly taking advantage and preying on this lack of kowledge. hno:


----------



## dubaifirst

I know the story of the lighthouse well because i nearly bought there but had some doubts about it and to my luck did not proceed. The lesson I learned in Dubai is not to buy anything at a ground level unless the developer is well known and has a proven track record.My father always told me one thing "if someone shows you sand in the desert and some glossy brochures run as fast as you can"


----------



## Hanna

*Damac Investment !*

Any property developer hesitating to invest in Abu Dhabi now stands to lose substantially, as the capital’s real estate market is currently hot, said Peter Riddoch, CEO of Damac Properties, in an interview with Emirates Business. 



Riddoch said the market for luxury properties in Abu Dhabi and Dubai was promising and the demand would continue to increase at least until 2015.



The UAE’s growing economy, bringing with it a corresponding rise in population as well as giant investments, would arrest any chances of recession. 



Riddoch announced Damac Properties, whose investments total $30 billion (Dh110bn), is keen to increase its presence in the region, but will not shy away from local market where the company has grown by 130 per cent in three years. 



Damac’s projects in Abu Dhabi are still small and are not considered big investments in a promising real estate market. What is the reason? 


So far we have launched two real estate projects in Abu Dhabi at a cost of $500bn.



The first is the $200 million Oceanscape project on Al Reem Island and the second is the Marina Bay project we launched last week at a cost of $300m at Najmat Abu Dhabi. 

We are looking for more land in Abu Dhabi to construct new projects. 



In the last three years, we had expected the real estate market in Abu Dhabi to be quiet but our expectations were wrong as the market saw unprecedented growth.



The projects launched in the past two years have put 250,000 residential units on the market until 2015.



This will not meet the local market’s need. Besides, a projected 50 per cent increase in Abu Dhabi’s population during the next decade, at nine per cent a year, will make the emirate an ideal place for investment and to reside in.



All these positive signs will spur the launch of world-class projects. Damac seeks to be a part of this growth by launching luxury real estate projects. 



Any property developer hesitating to invest in Abu Dhabi during this current period will lose a lot, as this is the best time for investment.



The current real estate boom in Abu Dhabi is similar to the one seen in Dubai many years ago. 



What aspects of Abu Dhabi’s realty sector are making you increase investments? 



The real estate market in Abu Dhabi is characterised by solid infrastructure and is qualified to receive major projects.



In addition, the capital is in the middle of a phase of solid economic and commercial growth. 



There is an increase in demand and a shortage of supply.



I expect the demand for properties, especially offices, to keep going up in Abu Dhabi. 



Increasing economic growth will bring in foreign firms and capital. 



The emirate has flexible real estate laws that inspire confidence in buyers, landlords and investors.



Also, Abu Dhabi Plan 2030 has introduced investors to the government’s vision of making Abu Dhabi one of the most important global capitals.



The government has announced it will invest more than Dh800 billion by 2012 in tourism, energy and infrastructure.



Abu Dhabi Tourism Authority has set a target of attracting three million visitors by 2015, which will support the emirate’s real estate market. 



In June 2006, the company announced the first project in Abu Dhabi Oceanscape. But the construction work has not begun so far. What is the reason?


There is no delay on our part.We had to wait for a long time for the developer in charge of the Al Reem Island to finish its part of the work and handover the land to us.



Laying of the foundation of the project is in its last phase and construction will begin by the middle of this year. 

The project is expected to be completed by the end of 2010, or during the first quarter of 2011 at the latest. 


How true is the news that British investors have lodged cases against the company due to the delay in Oceanscape? Do you plan to compensate them? 


This is untrue. There are no cases against us at all. When we realised the project would be delayed, we held meetings with all our customers and explained to them the causes for the delay. 

We offered them many solutions; including transferring their bookings to another Damac project or paying back their money. 

Most preferred the first option, while some opted to take their money back. 

Why did you announce a new project in Abu Dhabi when the first one is delayed? 

This shows our confidence in the future of real estate in Abu Dhabi.

The Oceanscape project was fully sold when it was announced. Following its success, we requested new plots of land in different areas of Abu Dhabi.

We got a piece of land at the Najmat Abu Dhabi project on Al Reem Island and designed a new project called Marina Bay, which is a 24-storey tower overlooking the sea. 

It contains retail stores, offices and luxurious residential apartments. I expect the foundation work to begin in six months and the project to be completed in another 30 months’ time.

We offered it for sale at the Abu Dhabi Real Estate Show and a considerable percentage was sold out. 

The real estate market in Abu Dhabi is in need of medium-priced units while Damac and other property developers offer mainly luxury projects.

Do you expect a recession in the luxury property market in Abu Dhabi, Dubai or the Northern Emirates? 

There is huge demand for luxury residences in Abu Dhabi and Dubai. When we offered the Oceanscape project for sale in Abu Dhabi, we noticed UAE nationals formed a considerable percentage of buyers.

However, recently we found there were many foreigners contacting us for residences in Abu Dhabi.

A large number of our customers come from other GCC countries, Britain, the US, Canada and Australia. This reflects Abu Dhabi’s success in bringing in foreign investment into the property sector.

Damac doesn’t specialise in luxury projects only. The price of some of our residential units starts from Dh650,000, while others start from Dh55m. 


The company chose an approach different from other developers, whether in selecting locations or offering distinctive finishing. I believe the real estate market in Abu Dhabi, Dubai and the Northern Emirates will remain in need for luxury units until at least 2015. 


Do you expect rents in Abu Dhabi to fall in the next two years with the new projects? 

I don’t expect residential and commercial rents in Abu Dhabi to change in the next few years. The change, if any, will be a small. The reason is the demand for accommodation and investment in Abu Dhabi, which have increased greatly.

Besides, economic signs confirm Abu Dhabi’s economy is one of the strongest in the region. 

Some consider the fall in sales in the UAE propelled the country to invest money in projects in Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi and Egypt. This is not true. In three years our company has grown by 130 per cent, which is an indicator of our success as well as the success of the real estate sector in the UAE.

It has pushed us to repeat this success story in other Middle Eastern countries. 

The firm’s investments stand at $30bn and projects inside the country form 65 per cent of our total investments. Only 35 per cent of our money is in ventures outside. We plan for a 50-50 split in our internal and external investments. 

The reason behind this is the demand for our projects outside, not a lack of demand at home. 

We found the entire Arab market is important. We have intensified our projects in Egypt because it has a strong economy, which is developing quickly.




The numbers

$30bn: Damac Properties investments total $30 billion and projects inside the country form 65 per cent of its total investments. Only 35 per cent of the company’s money is in ventures outside. 


$500bn: So far the company has launched two real estate projects in Abu Dhabi at a cost of $500bn. 












Last Update at 9:38 pm on February 19, 2008


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## rexdmx

^^ it was known by the smart guys 2 years ago when prices were less than Aed 1000/ sq ft... the property show was a riot over abu dhabi


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## ferrari430

^^ In shams abu dhabi, Gate district 5 and Sun tower release all sold out during the show. AD is definetley hot! prices were good at 1400 dhs psf


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## bizzybonita

Abu Dhabi experiences huge interest in real estate investment

Abu Dhabi has been witnessing huge investor interest ever since Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, the President of the UAE and the Ruler of Abu Dhabi, issued the new Real Estate Law for the emirate in 2005. The capital of the UAE now allows the non-UAE nationals as well as foreign investors to invest in leasehold property. However, the leases are available either on a 50 or 99 year basis and currently relate to property rather than land. This implies that the non-nationals can presently invest only in apartments.

The new property ownership laws no. 19 issued in 2005 by the Abu Dhabi government have accelerated the planning and launch of several iconic projects throughout the city. The major real estate developments launched in Abu Dhabi are Al Raha Beach Development, Al Raha Gardens, Al Reem Island, Saadiyat Island, Yas Island, Al Gurm Resort, Lulu Island, Al Mamoura and Golf Gardens.


Increase in Demand for Resdiential units, Abu Dhabi, UAE

The studies show that Abu Dhabi's population growth has averaged 7.3% annually in the last 4 years. In the coming 6 years, i.e., by 2013, the population of Abu Dhabi will touch 1.3 million and grow to over 3 million people by 2030. This suggests that there will be ever increasing demand for more residential and commercial spaces in the city. 

Current demand for residential property across all section of Abu Dhabi’s demographic gamut has exceeded available supply. The rents have surged 22% while property prices have increased 18% in the second half of 2007. According to some estimates, the shortage of houses in the emirate is as high as 50,000 for 2008. 

At present, the residential real estate projects worth more than Dh200 billion are under way in Abu Dhabi, UAE. The volume of construction activity in Abu Dhabi is expected to outpace Dubai within 4 years. There will be demand between 225,000 and 250,000 of new housing units in next 10 years. This building boom will allow the population of the city to double within a decade.


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## bizzybonita

Dubai realty firm plans multi-million investments in Nakheel’s developments

newly formed real estate development firm in Dubai, AZIZI Investments has marked its launch by announcing 15 million sq ft property development portfolio in the UAE. The company also confirmed a 3-year strategic plan to increase its realty development portfolio to an estimated 165 million sq ft by 2010. 

Merwiss Azizi, Founder and Chairman, AZIZI Investments, said, “We are delighted to announce our arrival into the market with what we believe is a very comprehensive portfolio offering. We are confident that the developments we have chosen will speed our path towards becoming not just a major player in the UAE development market, but globally”.

AZIZI Investments plans to develop 12 plots at Al Furjan, Nakheel’s family orientated community in Dubai; 5-star hotel at Emirates City real estate development, Ajman and selection of plots to be developed into luxurious properties on Crescent A of Palm Jebel Ali.


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## bizzybonita

Dubai realty price index shows steady growth

Dubai’s realty and property sector grew exponentially at 30% (in 2006) much higher than the average growth rate of 21%. The current prices of residential apartments in Dubai average Dh1461.68 per square feet (US$398 per square feet). Having analyzed the prevailing rates at various districts in Dubai, we conclude that the demand for both high-end and low-end housing is growing and that the trend of rising prices will extend beyond 2010. In 2006, the rates for residential units in Dubai averaged US$465.9 per square feet; in January 2008, they stood at US$505.1 per square feet.

Supply demand theory dictates global trade and there is a perception that Dubai’s property market too follows this dictum. Currently supply cannot sustain demand. And, our research makes us conclude that despite surplus of properties (by timeline 2010) property prices will yet be north. The reason, being that by the end of the decade, the sector envisages stability through tools like Property Index, Dubai Real Estate Corporation (DREC), Condominium, Strata and Owners’ Association Laws which will provide specific guidelines for developers, buyers and sellers. Property Index in particular, is expected to have a major impact on the property trading trends in Dubai.

Property Index would serve as a guide for tenants in the UAE who often have to pay different rates for the same types of properties. It is meant to alleviate all price and rental discrepancies. In addition, the Dubai real estate index will serve as a guide to trading in the property sector.


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## rexdmx

ferrari430 said:


> ^^ In shams abu dhabi, Gate district 5 and Sun tower release all sold out during the show. AD is definetley hot! prices were good at 1400 dhs psf


..the worst part is abu dhabi is just beginning...there is absolutely no supply in abu dhabi but the demand is higher than dubai...
the prices for the gate i heard from a friend in tameer is expected to top Aed 2000/ sq ft

u should have seen the stampede :nuts:


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## bizzybonita

Demand for Dubai office space to double in 2008 

Dubai's office space will double this year, as a 4.7 million square metre expansion in the area is scheduled between 2007 and 2010.

More than 250 companies from the United States, Europe and Far East participated in the Office Exhibition 2008 at Dubai International Exhibition and Convention Centre, which ends today. They exhibited their innovative designs at the seventh edition of the exhibition, the largest yet. 

The boom in office space was reflected in the exhibition, which included more participants and visitors than ever before, with a growing number of companies in the UAE and across the region needing to furnish and equip their offices. 

In the UAE alone the office furniture market is already estimated at between $190 million and $272 million. But this figure can be expected to rise in line with expansion of office space, expected to take a current supply of 2.4 million square million to three times that figure by 2010.

"The double-digit growth of Dubai's economy has already propelled the development of the Office Exhibition," said Paula Al Chami of DMG World Media, the exhibition organiser. 

"Now we will increasingly see suppliers from across the region coming to the city to emulate its success," she said.

Major international companies such as Allsteel, Boss Design, Freeza, Herman Miller, Interstuhl and Sedus Stoll took part in the exhibition, as well as local companies like Bafco and The Office Furniture People. 

"The biggest worldwide companies are here today and they are sharing their latest designs in furniture. In this part of the world, the offices are usually grand and they require stylishly designed furniture," said Bernard Walsh, managing director of DMG World Media Dubai. 

"This exhibition had the most interesting, exciting products in the sector that have ever been seen in the Gulf," said Walsh.

It also featured events such as seminars and workshops by Fred Berns, a well known personality in the interior design business and, Eames Demetrios an iconic designer of the 20th Century.


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## bizzybonita

A Guide to investing in Dubai's Real Estate Market 

A Guide to investing in Dubai's Real Estate Market: For newcomers to Dubai, taking the first steps to find a property to buy or rent must be a little daunting. You only need to look in the property section of a paper to get an idea of the number of brokers operating here. Where should you start? How do you know which agencies to trust and what pitfalls to look out for?

Well first of all, I would start by doing a little research into the market; use the internet and property pages of newspapers to get an idea of the type of property and area you would like to live in. 

Of course, if you are completely new to Dubai then you may need expert advice on communities here, so you should either speak with people here or contact a real estate agent. But given that there are so many to choose from, how do you decide which company? 

A good reference point is the Dubai Property Group, whose members conform to a real estate code of conduct and, as such, operate to a certain standard. In addition, you can ask colleagues and friends to recommend agencies they know or for testimonials on firms they have used.

Otherwise, you could use the internet and newspapers to look for agencies, considering property selection, level of detailed information on properties and communities, and quality of adverts/website to help make your decision. 

Beware

There is one thing you should be cautious about: when selecting an agency from newspapers, do not base your decision solely on the fact that they are advertising themselves as award winners. Unfortunately, there is no unbiased, industry-governed real estate awards in Dubai at present.

In fact, if you look carefully you will sometimes see two different companies claiming to be winners of the same award, which makes no sense at all. As well as completely undervaluing the whole thing, it's very misleading to potential clients.

Once you decide on an agency, in order to qualify their expertise, call and ask how long they have been operating in Dubai, and whether or not they are registered with RERA, the Real Estate Regulatory Authority.

If the answer to the latter is no, then change to another company, as only licensed agents are legally allowed to conduct real estate transactions. Even when the answer is yes, you should always acquire proof of registration before proceeding with any transaction.

When dealing with an agency, here are a few things to consider and look out for: make sure that the marketing of the properties they are selling and leasing includes accurate and up to date information, good quality images and informative descriptions.

Are the consultants professional, knowledgeable and able to answer all your questions? Are they willing and able to explain the contents of the forms and agreements along with the client's obligations and consequences of completing them? 

While some of this will be difficult to identify from the outset the truth is that all of the above should be answered with a yes. If this is not the case, you need to decide whether or not you are prepared to continue to deal with that company on such a high value transaction. 

With RERA providing the industry with its first governing body we are moving towards a more disciplined and legislated sector which is good news for all, and ensures the Dubai market will soon become safer and more credible.


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## Morten_Denmark

bizzybonita - I really appriciate posts like this - but if it is possible for you please quote the source. Many times there are related stuff which is interesting..

Kind regards Morten


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## Sheltie

Morrismarina said:


> You need to write to them and tell them you will pay the next instalment only into the escrow account as per the law and ask for details so you can make your payment. I'd check with RERA to ensure they are registered and all is legitimate.
> 
> What to do if they are non-compliant with RERA etc. ?? Guess you'll have to make a decision whether to proceed or not. You could say as they are not complying with the law that you are not paying and ask for all your money back, but not sure what redress you would have if they kept your money..... difficult decision. I'd certainly be very wary of any developer who does not want to play ball with RERA. I personally would not pay them any more monies if it was not going into escrow and I'd think about cutting my losses, especially if it's money you can't afford to lose, they've had long enough to get their act together and comply. You have to ask yourself WHY are they not complying. You seem to already have big doubts about them and is it worth all the sleepless nights ?? Even Wind & Schon are complying with the escrow law. I ducked out of buying with ACW at Kensington Manor in Jemeriah Village South end of last year as there was no escrow in place at the time and they were saying the account would not be open until March.......indicated they were well too dodgy an outfit IMO.
> The majority of purchasers do not have the benefit of all the info here on SSC and no doubt have no idea about RERA and escrow accounts, some developers are clearly taking advantage and preying on this lack of kowledge. hno:


Thanks for your advise. We tried phoning 32 Group but nobody gets back to us. The company we bought it from has found out that they don't have an escrow account and they won't speak to them either. They think there is something fishy going on. They are getting a solicitor to go along to see them. I will write to them to say what you said about only paying into an escrow account.
We have paid 50% to date and the contract says that if a payment is missed the seller will terminate the agreement and resell the unit. 25% of the total price will go to the seller.


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## bizzybonita

Dubai Mega Projects Conference on 3rd & 4th March 


The fourth Dubai Mega Projects Conference will take place on 3 and 4 March 2008 at the Al-Murooj Rotana Hotel in Dubai to provide insights into upcoming mega real estate developments and look in detail at progress of existing realty projects such as Dubailand, Bawadi and Waterfront. The conference is organized by MEED, the business information specialist and conference organizer in the region. 

With Dubai’s population set to more than double to 3.5 million and tourist numbers to rise to 15 million by 2010, growth in the construction industry will continue. Dubai’s mega real estate projects aim is to provide a mix of residential, commercial, leisure and tourism facilities to fulfill the demand of the growing population and large tourist influx. 

A strong rental market in Dubai currently offers yields of up to 10% per annum driven by high demand for property especially among the expatriate community who makes up 80% of the population. This, combined with low purchase and sales costs, increasing availability of mortgages and high quality build make the real estate market in Dubai very desirable, especially when surrounded by commercial and leisure facilities that are available in many mega project plans.


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## bizzybonita

Morten_Denmark said:


> bizzybonita - I really appriciate posts like this - but if it is possible for you please quote the source. Many times there are related stuff which is interesting..
> 
> Kind regards Morten


ok


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## bizzybonita

Property management services in big demand in Dubai 

Property management services in big demand in Dubai: As the Dubai market has grown, so too has the demand for related services such as property management. Often, when thinking about real estate agencies and the services offered, sales and leasing are at the forefront, but other related professional services can be just as crucial.

The boom in Dubai has attracted investors from across the globe, all eager to capitalise on the high capital growth and strong rental yields here. The large increase in property owners since the freehold property law was introduced, particularly with people who reside overseas, has significantly increased the market for property management companies. 

Given the high value of a property, be it commercial or residential, the importance of the role of good management of the building should not be underestimated. Taking care of an investment and optimising its returns can be a full-time job. It also sometimes brings with it hassles that are difficult enough to resolve when you are close by, but near impossible when you are a few thousand kilometres away.

So what exactly is property management and what services do property management companies offer?

Property management is about taking care of all aspects of the running of a building to ensure it is properly maintained. The areas management services cover can include: maintenance, lease and tenant management, asset inventory and insurance and finance issues such as accounting, rent collection, banking and advice on financial returns. 

The main reason for the growth in the market is that it makes the entire leasing and maintenance management hassle-free for owners while at the same time giving them the peace of mind that their asset is in good hands. A property management company takes care of all practical issues of the maintenance and rental process on behalf of the landlord, sourcing a suitable tenant, handling contracts, managing the tenancy and resolving maintenance issues. All of these are fairly arduous tasks for anyone without the necessary expertise.

I think there is sometimes a misconception that professional property management is only for owners of full buildings or multiple units, but this is not the case. 

The reality is that there are many individual owners out there who hand over management of their units. In some ways, the economies of scale make it more valuable to these clients, gaining all the required expertise while at the same time, capitalising on a strong brand name to market their unit. 

From a tenant's perspective, a professionally managed unit is a more attractive option when looking to rent, as it should ensure a streamlined and efficient service 

In terms of selecting a property management company to use, the best piece of advice I can give is to carefully choose a company based on it's ability to protect what is probably one of your most valuable assets. Look for a reputable firm with relevant experience in the market. I always think the best way is to ask around; speak to friends, family and colleagues about their experiences and ask for recommendations. Do your research on the company; do they have a qualified and trained team and are their sub-contractors qualified?

Once you find a good company, you can sit back, relax, and enjoy the fruits of your investment, never having to worry about that broken shower or rent cheques again.

*Writer: Ryan Mahoney - Managing Director of Better Homes
Via Gulf News *


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## glover

*Hamptons survey shows how cheap Dubai properties are in prime areas compared to other international cities*

and their benchmark price is that of Burg al-Arab @ US$16,500 per square meter (AED 61,000 psqm). convert that to sq. ft. (AED 61,000 by 10.8) and you come up with *AED 5,650 psqf*.

looks like prices in dubai marina and elsewhere have a long way to go to catch up with other international cities.


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## rexdmx

^^ well i did say that before in previous pages that dubai was low relative to world prices... i forgot the bugger who doubted me :bash:

still there are other factors but so far so good for buyers


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## High Times

Glover thanks for the article, interesting to see Dubai so low on the global price comparisons.At the moment !

When Dubai construction is nearer completion 2015 ish I think prices will step up. I speak to very wealthy, well travelled people in my day to day job and when discussing Dubai i get the same answers all the time.

_Great place to go on holiday but wouldn't want to be there full time as it's still a building site._

The market at the moment is around 80 speculators. As areas begin to complete i think you will see more people looking to re-locate here, not just workers but retired proffessionals looking for a high end standard of living.

This type of end user wants to move into their appartment, decorate,choose their curtains, and enjoy life without having to dodge cement mixers whilst going for a walk before breakfast so i think we will see a second wave of buyers in the secondary market in 2012-2015. These will be cash buyers who are selling up in other countries to escape the sliding living standards in the west due to crime, tax etc. 

I saw this happen in spain in the late 70's. First it was the footballers and film stars, then the crooks in the 80's, then the wealthy retirees through the 90's. Now every man and his dog has bought in spain and it's just like "little Brittain" or "Britts abroad". Thats one reason the big bucks are leaving Spain now because its all got a bit chav and what people moved to get away from has followed them there so off they go. I wonder where ? ?

I would expect to see prices closer to other world prime locations, so in my view there is still good value in buying in Dubai with a view to holding until the cranes go.


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## Morrismarina

Agree 100% with you High Times, that's why a 10 year long term plan with Dubai property is a wise choice.

Interestingly they didn't mention Tokyo in the article, I'm not really sure but I always thought they had very high property prices on a par with London ??


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## bizzybonita

deleted


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## dubaifirst

So Morris your prediction in Zumurud thread that prices will be 4K to 5k in 5 years time will probably happen soon.


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## Morrismarina

dubaifirst said:


> So Morris your prediction in Zumurud thread that prices will be 4K to 5k in 5 years time will probably happen soon.



Yes I reckon it's very realistic, especially given this is some time away.


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## Salameer

I thought I'd do a quick comparison. So, from todays The Sunday Times property supplement, I just picked a random location outside central London and found a 1-bed apartment. It is a new build, 440sf and on sale for £290,000. I made that 4700AED psf. I have not included stamp duty and legal fees.

Today, DIFC is about 4000AED psf, Downtown is 3500AED, BB is 2000AED. Hendon, North London is 4700AED. Notwithstanding, slight adjustment to UK property market, can someone tell me how far Dubai's premiere locations need to go up?

HighTimes - I agree with your comments and would add that aforementioned Dubai areas will shortly take another significant jump in price psf.

I believe the catalist will be, completion of a few of the towers in each location.


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## mackie1964

Worth a read for the hotel occupancy level around the world bit:cheers:

http://www.travelmail.co.uk/travel/...rather-Posh--and-Becks-.html?article_id=35582


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## LaCasta

Which instiutions provide the best financing options for someone who is looking to start a portfolio in Dubai with a couple residential pieces and some commercial space. I called ADCB and gave them all my info but no one got back to me (a problem I am noticing in Dubai lol) any other good institutions?


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## High Times

A Bank maybe.


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## Naz UK

My mate Dave will lend you money - if you're occasionally prepared to lose a finger or two.


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## DubaiDream

*dubai financing*

a uk national who has recently moved to Dubai told me he is building a property portfolio and achieving 95/100% financing in dubai. I know this type of leverage is not possible for a uk national, non uae resident. 

Any truth to this>?


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## Dubai_Steve

Yes 90% is quite normal for Dubai residents and also 100% can be seen sometimes.

If you are a resident in Dubai you really can take advantage of this to make serious money for next to nothing.


----------



## andy-j

whihc banks offer 100% finance?

also, i believe some banks allow no repayment until development
is completed?


----------



## High Times

Wow, buy now pay later on property.

I cant see how banks can afford to lend without charging interest until completion which in some cases could be years + delays and could get out of hand.

I would like to look through a formal offer of a mortgage deal that offers such facilities.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Depends on the project as well as the bank. Many projects only offer finance from certain banks. Sometimes you can see projects offered with 100% finance. Many banks give 90% for residents.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

HT, I have several investments (outside of Dubai) where I pay nothing until completion. The mortgage does not start until completion and is paid by the rental guarantees. The developer works with only a deposit and a loan from the bank or already has money to invest themselves. If I was a resident of Dubai I would look for similar deals in Dubai.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Ubora tower in Business Bay offer 20% deposit and nothing to pay until completion, even for non residents.


----------



## AltinD

Dubai_Steve said:


> HT, I have several investments (outside of Dubai) where I pay nothing until completion. The mortgage does not start until completion and is paid by the rental guarantees. The developer works with only a deposit and a loan from the bank or already has money to invest themselves. If I was a resident of Dubai I would look for similar deals in Dubai.


Are the guys on those countries forums as nice bunches as we over here?


----------



## High Times

Dubai_Steve said:


> HT, I have several investments (outside of Dubai) where I pay nothing until completion. The mortgage does not start until completion and is paid by the rental guarantees. The developer works with only a deposit and a loan from the bank or already has money to invest themselves. If I was a resident of Dubai I would look for similar deals in Dubai.


Yes Steve, thanks i was aware that developers offered this facility as they can offset the cost of finance within the deal as a whole.

But the post in question said banks offer this facility too which i had not known about. I fthey do it's a new one on me and would like to know how they can afford to lend money on an uncompleted project without charging interest until it completes ?


----------



## Morrismarina

High Times said:


> Yes Steve, thanks i was aware that developers offered this facility as they can offset the cost of finance within the deal as a whole.
> 
> But the post in question said banks offer this facility too which i had not known about. I fthey do it's a new one on me and would like to know how they can afford to lend money on an uncompleted project without charging interest until it completes ?


I think you'll find the banks roll the interest up (add it to the loan) and then you'll start making your payments on whatever the loan balance has rise to at the time of completion. The bank's take the risk that the property value will rise more than the accrued interest. HSBC do it this way.


----------



## Morrismarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> Ubora tower in Business Bay offer 20% deposit and nothing to pay until completion, even for non residents.


Don't forget La Hoya Bay Residence in RAK 30% deposit and nothing to pay until completion. :banana:


----------



## Salameer

High Times said:


> Yes Steve, thanks i was aware that developers offered this facility as they can offset the cost of finance within the deal as a whole.
> 
> But the post in question said banks offer this facility too which i had not known about. I fthey do it's a new one on me and would like to know how they can afford to lend money on an uncompleted project without charging interest until it completes ?


So does NBAD and I expect a number of other major banks. :cheers:


----------



## Salameer

*[B]Region among biggest foreign UK property buyers[/B]*

by Dylan Bowman on Tuesday, 26 February 2008
ArabianBusiness.com

Middle East investors were among biggest foreign buyers of luxury properties in London and the southeast of England last year, UK-based real estate consultancy Knight Frank said on Tuesday.

Knight Frank said investors from the Middle East accounted for around 4% of overseas buyers of properties between 1-2 million British pounds ($1.97-$3.94 million), behind Russia (5%) and Europe (11%).

The consultancy said the rise in global wealth was spurring an increase in UK property investment by high net worth individuals (HNWIs) looking to expand and diversify their investment porfolios.

It said investors from oil-rich economies such as those in the Middle East were expected to continue to play a prominent role in the UK property market in the future.

“Overall there is a realistic prospect that the emerging and commodity rich economies in Asia, Latin America and the Middle East will continue to expand with a concomitant increase in their populations of HNWIs,” Liam Bailey, head of residential research at Knight Frank, said in a statement.

Knight Frank said it had also seen an increase in UK property investment by HNWIs from Russia, Kazakhstan, India and South Korea.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Anyone investing in Abu Dhabi ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*House prices in UAE to climb *
By Andrew Shouler, Deputy Managing Editor 
Published: February 27, 2008, 00:05
http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10193011.html

Dubai: The escalation of material prices and wages will drive construction costs and help propel house prices higher in the UAE, according to a research note by local brokerage EFG-Hermes.

With pending supply being delayed, but demand for property buoyant, developers are easily able to pass on higher costs to potential off-plan buyers, the note says. 

Meanwhile, with local interest rates having dropped, real estate demand has been stimulated.

"Taking both cost and demand pressures together, we now believe that both off-plan and secondary market prices will rise significantly higher in 2008 than our previous expectation of 5-10 per cent." Analyst Sana Kapadia declined to give revised figures for the outcome, but agreed that the risks for investors would also rise. 

"The persistence of labour shortages, strong demand, and the mandatory adoption of green building codes, health and life insurance are likely to raise costs even further."

Lower interest rates also give the fillip of cheaper finance, as well as the incentive of greater reward in the face of meagre returns on deposits. 

As UAE interbank rates have fallen from 4.9 per cent last November to 2.8 per cent today, mortgage rates have declined from 7.9 per cent to 5.8 per cent.

Monica Malek, economist for EFG-Hermes, made it plain that prospective inflation applies to prices rather than rental costs, which are subject instead to separate forces of supply and demand.

"In fact, we expect rental inflation to be negative in Dubai in 2008. Anecdotally, because of negative real interest rates, people are buying houses for investment purposes [which] adds to rental supply. For the UAE as a whole, consumer price inflation will nevertheless be driven by rental inflation in Abu Dhabi, which may be in the region of 30 per cent this year."

The report's assessment is in line with work by other analysts. 

"A combination of strong demographic growth, negative real rates and increasingly available mortgage finance will boost demand at the same time as delivery delays look likely to moderate growth in supply," said Simon Williams, Chief Economist, HSBC Middle East. 

"Taken together, those factors point to a very supportive [house] price environment."


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ The above article points out that rental inflation is expected to be negative in Dubai in 2008 (increasing prices + decreasing rentals = cooling spot) whilist in Abu Dhabi rental inflation is expected to be 30% (increasing prices + increasing rentals = hot spot).


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The only way to move Dubai back to a hot spot is if demand for property in Dubai greatly increases. One way of doing that is to announce amazing new projects which will increase interest and demand but not increase supply for a long time. One such project could be Al Burj. Can Nakheel save the day


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Dubai_Steve said:


> The only way to move Dubai back to a hot spot is if demand for property in Dubai greatly increases. One way of doing that is to announce amazing new projects which will increase interest and demand but not increase supply for a long time. One such project could be Al Burj. Can Nakheel save the day


We need more people to settle in Dubai - I wish for falling rents or at least stable rents.


----------



## High Times

^^

I agree Morten,

I think the rent cap will prove to be a good thing in the short term. If rental prices get out of control Dubai will die of greed before it reaches puberty.

When supply catches up with demand (2011-2012) i think the rent caps will be relaxed or removed to allow the market to find it's own level.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> I agree Morten,
> 
> I think the rent cap will prove to be a good thing in the short term. If rental prices get out of control Dubai will die of greed before it reaches puberty.
> 
> When supply catches up with demand (2011-2012) i think the rent caps will be relaxed or removed to allow the market to find it's own level.


I was dissipointed when I learned about the change of the rent cap. The reason was primarily that as an investor you become nervous when all the rules change so fast. Stability is nice. When that is said the rent cap is very wise. They need now to do something about falling interest rates - as inflation is nice for starters but has dramatical consequences after a while - like pissing your pants - or something being worse. I see no way around depegging and when ready go for a basket of currencies. We have talked enough about this so I will stop. Point is - we need clever people and people with ressources to settle in Dubai - in the end of the day - brains are the most important ressource in the world.


----------



## cheath

On the subject of borrowing money to buy property (to live in and/or rent) how long would the local Dubai banks expect you to have been living and earning money, following a reolocation to the area before they would lend to you?

Also how do they calculate how much they will lend? Is it based on salary multiples as in the UK?

Do they view property you buy as an investment differently to property you buy to live in?

Do they take a different view on villas as compared to apartments?

Thanks


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Morten_Denmark said:


> We need more people to settle in Dubai - I wish for falling rents or at least stable rents.


Yes in which case we can be sure of falling prices after a while as we will have to go around a full property cycle. Falling rents eventually mean falling prices. However, the launch of new exciting projects will help that cycle be shorter.


----------



## lovedubai

Dubai_Steve said:


> Anyone investing in Abu Dhabi ?


We're trying, but it's not easy. I was out in AD last week and visited various developers who all said they'd sold everything at the Dubai show last week. The show was variously described as a bunfight, fishmarket and dealing floor by those who were there. On the resale market, if you ring up about an apartment, the sellers put the price up. The agents are struggling to get sellers to commit as they can put the price up by 100,000 literally overnight. I've got details of 3 in Tameer Towers where the price on Monday was that much more than the listed price last Thursday. If you can get in, the prices are going to go up astronomically.


----------



## AppleMac

*Reasale question*

Hi - have bought a resale property through Emaar - I got a ownership transfer certificate and receipts for the installments already paid by the previous owner.

Question - do I get a copy of the original contract (or a new contract) some time?


----------



## Sheltie

I bought a resale in The Atlantic and got a new contract. On it is our names and the payment plan was alterred to suit us.


----------



## doable

AppleMac said:


> Hi - have bought a resale property through Emaar - I got a ownership transfer certificate and receipts for the installments already paid by the previous owner.
> 
> Question - do I get a copy of the original contract (or a new contract) some time?


I didn't know that Emaar does resale. I thought resale is only in the open market. But this property might be resale due to default in payment.

Which Emaar property you purchased? I think contract will be the same as original. They are pretty standard contract. Not sure if the future payment schedule will change.


----------



## AppleMac

By 'through Emaar' I mean that I went to Emaars office with the previous owner and transferred the ownership.

The original contract was kept by Emaar - there is only one payment left and that is on completion of the project.


----------



## Salameer

glover said:


> it looks like the depeg is only going to happen with the single GCC currency, in 2010-12 or thereabout, though the single currency will probably include only 3 or 4 countries initially, but the UAE will be one of them.


Expert opinion suggests that unless the US Dollar appreciates in the next few months, about 3% to 5% revaluation of Dhiram v US Dollar may be enforced to kerb UAE inflation. 
Whilst a revaluation would be good news for current investors, it will likely deter new property investors. 
So, looks like we are caught between a rock and hard place!
:cheers:


----------



## jacobdxb

^^ I don't think a 5% revaluation will change a lot as this is what the dollar has fallen in 2 months... also prices have gone up about 5% in 3 months generally speaking, and people are still buying...


----------



## High Times

Salameer said:


> Whilst a revaluation would be good news for current investors, it will likely deter new property investors.
> So, looks like we are caught between a rock and hard place!
> :cheers:


Revaluation would only be good for investors who have fully paid for their units.

Anyone who has only paid 30%-90% and is a non UAE resident would be adversly effected by a de pegg.

Especially if investors have borrowed funds and factored in an exchange rate using current rates (last 6-12 months).

If currency is de pegged then pretty soon there will be a lot of people who have streched their budget paying a lot more in their home currecny to keep their payments up.

Many might even be forced to sell units


----------



## jacobdxb

^^ following my previous post, I do agree with High Times to some extent, that people who have bought very recently and overstretched their budgets severely could come in some kind of trouble during a revaluation. 

But, these people are likely to have taken up a mortgage. If this mortgage is taken in one of the local banks, it will most likely be in dirhams (most of them only lend in dirhams) - hence they'll only be affected from the revaluation on their deposit (20-30% of the purchase price) which would have been paid from their home currency, and normally upfront for the bank to even consider the mortgage. 

If, however they have taken out the mortgage in their home country on an existing property they own, they would still have the possibility to take out a small mortgage on the Dubai property to cover the difference. 

So all in all, I don't see a huge problem here.


----------



## High Times

You clearly han't got a clue what I'm talking about.


----------



## jacobdxb

^^ basically, I think the problem depends on the size of the revaluation - 5-10% is easier to absorb, than 20-30%... you didn't mention any numbers in this regard...


----------



## High Times

Well historically AED – Sterling yearly averages going back 5 years look like this;

2003 – 5.7
2004 – 6.5
2005 – 6.5
2006 – 6.7
2007 – 7.3 (peaked at around 7.6) these are commercial inter bank rates.

So if revalued – de-pegged I would say going back to AED6 -£1 would be on the cards. This is what would be needed to stem inflation and help imports which is why it’s needed.

Example. 

Investor A is from UK

Investor A buys off plan unit for AED 1,000,000 pays 20% down.

So AED 200,000 is paid using recent conversion rate of say 7.3 AED to £1 which is £27,397.

So AED 1,000,000 at 7.3 exchange is £137,000 total cost of unit.

If he then has to pay 20% stage payments until completion over the next 3-4 years and the Dirham is revalued or re- pegged at AED 6 to £1 then the new cost of his future 20% payments go up to £33,000. An increase on each remaining payment of around £5,600 or 21% of the pre- revalued cost.

£5,600 addition costs in each stage payment over the course of the build x 4 = approx £22,400.

So it is irrelevant where they have their mortgage, if its in Dubai, Dublin, or Damascus. What’s key is where they have bought – Dubai. So they pay for their unit in Dirhams.

Also where they live and earn money to fund payments and if its in a Euro/Dollar/Pound denominated currency, then if a re-peg/devaluation occurs then they will be sending more of their currency over to Dubai, either to their developer or mortgage provider. 

*This is the key point;*

Are most investors astute enough to factor in a 21% rise in purchase costs due to currency fluctuation.

I think not, and if it happens then there will be a lot of people looking to offload property cause they can’t afford to pay for them.


----------



## glover

Salameer said:


> Expert opinion suggests that unless the US Dollar appreciates in the next few months, about 3% to 5% revaluation of Dhiram v US Dollar may be enforced to kerb UAE inflation.
> Whilst a revaluation would be good news for current investors, it will likely deter new property investors.
> So, looks like we are caught between a rock and hard place!
> :cheers:


it is clear to me today that the GCC countries, or at least Saudi Arabia and to some extent the UAE, have decided to ride out the weak dollar until the GCC's single currency, unless the dollar plummets within the next few years, which is no one is forecasting!!


----------



## Salameer

^^ Euro investors are doing just fine. However, before US/UK investors start heading for the exit door, there is the option to execute a forward trade to hedge against a larger than anticipated revaluation.

Also, I don't believe it would benefit UAE to depeg before single currency is introduced in 2010. After all, it is only 2 years away and it would be foolhardy to destabilize inward investment.

I am not an economist but I think a 20% revaluation would be suicidal.
:cheers:


----------



## smussuw

Although it is unlikely 20% revaluation will not cause anything, the ship will continue moving regardless what all people see, as it has always been.


----------



## shaffar

yasir_hilali said:


> has any one else got a fax from Alareifi saying that the building was sold and stated that we should get our money back... AT THE SAME PRICE AS I PAID 2 YEARS AGO.
> how can it be possible for the building to be sold all of a sudden and we buyers get kicked and have our cash thrown in our faces.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone else?
> because strangely no one is complaining...


My friend just told me of an email to the sort, they say the cost of building the tower has gone up & they can't continue.
I looked at his contract and couldn't see any wording allowing them to do that?

War, natural disasters, but not an increase in the build cost.



what should he do?


----------



## IISinbadII

They don't have to revalue 30% all at once. It could be done in stages, over time.


----------



## Ni3lS

It's just information  I know it's sold out.


----------



## foxy

I think we are all agreed that a depeg would result in a stronger dirham. As I have paid 90% I should be happy. Or should I?
There could more forced sellers (adding to the supply). Tourist numbers could decline. The Dubai story could go sour.

I would rather have the dollar strenghten, credit being cheaper and more readily available, dubai salaries to rise and for Dubai to carry on doing a great job of self publicity.


----------



## Sady

Hi,

I received a call from Alareifi yesterday asking for the phone number of the person who bought my studio about 6 months ago. The guy told me that the construction has been halted because of a problem with the Municipality. 

It is clear after reading your posts above that the reason is different.

Good luck to all of you who have invested in this building or developer I should say!!!

I can imagine the stress that you guys are going through because of this.
Sady


----------



## Salameer

^^
For an economy hedging its bets on tourism, the last thing Dubai wants is a strong currency and rampant inflation fueled by higher wages. I hope that much is obvious.
Ideally, you don't want the dollar to weaken from where it is at. That would make it great for US but not for the rest of us.
:cheers:


----------



## kamalyakub

Yasir
I got an email from Al Areifi for same subject to collect money back.
I think we have to form group to deal jointly this subject

Kamal
[email protected]




yasir_hilali said:


> has any one else got a fax from Alareifi saying that the building was sold and stated that we should get our money back... AT THE SAME PRICE AS I PAID 2 YEARS AGO.
> how can it be possible for the building to be sold all of a sudden and we buyers get kicked and have our cash thrown in our faces.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone else?
> because strangely no one is complaining...


----------



## jeetha

Developers should offer to buy back at today’s rate.


----------



## yasir_hilali

to all those who would are interested in doing something, or do not know what to do concerning this subject...
Please we would like to contact you as soon as possible!
you can contact me first by e-mail, and then we will start to talk a bit more seriously about this subject.
I will not let this slide away, they are giving us false excuses and throwing us around, I will not just go in and take my money and be thankful, I have been patient after their 1 YEAR DELAY, I had things planned and while they just so simply destroy them...

I have yet to collect my money that i paid 2 years ago, so anyone else who hasn't please contact me as soon as possible at 
[email protected]


----------



## ameelioo

The developer MEMON is not registered in RERA certification. Is this right ?


----------



## AltinD

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ The blame goes partly to rent Caps and Laws that don't allow landlords to vacate their property even after the rental contract is over. :bash:


Yeah right, like you want to kick the existing tenants because they aren't willing to pay less. People like you will be the ones no one will feel sorry for, when the bubble will go bust. :lol:


----------



## yasir_hilali

If you excuse me to place a notice here in Arabic regarding Areifi tower…

قام خالد سعود العريفي بالتلاعب بملك المستثمرين في برج العريفي مارينا في دبي
ومَن له حقوق على العريفي بمراجعة السلطات المختصة في دبي


----------



## jeetha

yasir_hilali said:


> If you excuse me to place a notice here in Arabic regarding Areifi tower…
> 
> قام خالد سعود العريفي بالتلاعب بملك المستثمرين في برج العريفي مارينا في دبي
> ومَن له حقوق على العريفي بمراجعة السلطات المختصة في دبي


Would you like to share it?
Good news or is it Bad news?


----------



## blackberry2k

*Wanted 1Bhk at Liwan*

Any one has a 1Bhk for sale ? drop me a mail at [email protected]


----------



## carpetking

jeetha said:


> Would you like to share it?
> Good news or is it Bad news?


"The Khalid King Saud Al-Arifi manipulating investors Arifi tower in Dubai Marina 
It has rights to Arifi reviewing the relevant authorities in Dubai"


----------



## jeetha

Thanks - carperking.


----------



## IISinbadII

AltinD said:


> Yeah right, like you want to kick the existing tenants because they aren't willing to pay less. People like you will be the ones no one will feel sorry for, when the bubble will go bust. :lol:


Landlords should have the right to move the existing tenants out when their contract is over. Whats wrong with that?

As far as the bubble going bust, one should know that property runs in cycles. There are ups and downs. Its part of the business.


----------



## Monument

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ The blame goes partly to rent Caps and Laws that don't allow landlords to vacate their property even after the rental contract is over. :bash:


This is very true. If market forces are kept out of the market you get landlord not wishing to let out their properties and keep them locked up for capital appreciation purposes. Very dangerous not to let market forces work. 

It will only get worse as property prices rise but rents are artificially prevented from keeping up causing lower yields on the property and eventually distorting the capital price of the property. Very dangerous.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai real estate - second most expensive in world

Continued housing supply shortages and unprecedented price hikes in 2008 will make Dubai’s real estate market the second most expensive in the world, after the West End of London, HC Securities Brokerage said on Sunday.

“Accelerating growth rates have equipped expatriates with the means to rent houses at high rates, and the situation is least likely to be resolved in 2008 as the market is expected to be in short supply of housing units,” the Egypt-based brokerage said in its Economy Watch Bulletin.

Government caps have done little to address surging inflation caused by rapidly increasing rents across the region, HC Securities said, with GCC rents forecast to increase by a further 20% this year.

via arabianbusiness


----------



## dubaifirst

may be Dubai will take over from London and will be number 1 soon.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai house prices to top UK property prices in 2008?


A combination of falling UK house prices, the devaluation of the pound sterling and another strong year for Dubai property could result in the previously unthinkable before the end of the year: homes in the UAE worth more per square metre than homes in the UK. It looks a landmark year for UAE real estate.
Indeed, the divergence in outlook between the UK and UAE property sectors for 2008 could hardly be more vivid. In the UAE, high economic growth rates fuelled by a five-year surge in oil and gas prices is being inflated further by a currency and interest rate regime pegged to the US dollar; and as the Fed cuts rates in the US home loans will also cost less in the emirates. 

For local property this means cheap finance is available to buyers whose only alternative is to pay inflated annual rents. One study put the cost of renting a one-bedroom apartment at Dhs10,000 per month compared with Dhs7,500 to buy. 

In this atmosphere further increases in house prices look inevitable, with 10-20% appearing a conservative estimate for 2008. And at the same time the UAE mortgage sector is only just really opening for business. EFG Hermes estimates the local mortgage market is presently worth a tiny Dhs16bn and could grow 10-fold over the next five years; and the availability of finance will definitely be a factor in local house prices. 


Falling mortgage costs
There is indeed mounting pressure on Emirates mortgage providers to lower their interest rates. Currently market rates stand around 7.5% whereas the newest market entrant Commercial Bank of Dubai offers risk-assessed home loans from a little over 5% to customers with the best credit profiles. 

Market competition among the 23 lenders should mean that local home loan rates go lower this year, with US interest rates set to fall further and the dirham's peg to the dollar still firmly in place. 

By contrast in the UK a 10-year housing bubble has just burst courtesy of the credit crunch that started last August, and caused the first run on a UK bank for more than a century. Mortgage conditions are now tougher for borrowers, rates have risen and transactions have fallen steeply. House price have been falling for the past four months. 


UK boom over
Many economists have pointed out that on any valuation technique UK house prices have become overvalued by anything from 20-50%. In a market correction it is normal for prices to move to an over-correction before reverting to the long term average. 

This is the main reason for expecting the gap between UAE and UK house prices to close in 2008: prices stand to fall sharply in the UK while in the UAE house prices still have a lot of upside. 

However, there is one final factor that will close the gap: currency devaluation in the UK. The pound sterling has been riding high against the US dollar - due to the well known problems of the US economy - and has therefore made dirham-denominated property cheap in the UK and UK property that much more valuable in dirham terms. 

Now that the UK economy faces a series of challenges not unlike those in the US and the pound sterling has fallen in value below two dollars to the pound. HSBC predicts a decline to 1.75 over the next 15 months as the pound devalues to offset the impact of a UK slowdown or recession. 


Devaluation bonus
For UK owners of UAE property that will provide a nice gain in value in sterling terms. But at the same time the price differential between UK and UAE real estate will be eroded in dirham terms. 

For instance, take the Dhs5.7m price of a five-bedroom villa in New Dubai. To obtain a house of similar size in the UK Home Counties might cost around Dhs9m today. Now factor in a 10% rise in Dubai prices to Dhs6.3m and a 20% decline in UK house prices bringing the comparable home to Dhs7.2m. Then adjust for a fall in the value of the pound sterling and you have cheaper homes in the UK than the emirates. 

This is a remarkable phenomenon: When Dubai house sales to foreigners first started in spring 2002 prices were at around a quarter of comparable UK prices in the Home Counties. A little more than five years later and the tables are set to turn. 

R


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> Landlords should have the right to move the existing tenants out when their contract is over. Whats wrong with that?


Are you sure about that? I think after 3 years, the tenant can be asked to vacate. 

Otherwise, who will rent out their apt? Imagine the tenant never wanting to move out and your investment is then totally blocked.


----------



## IISinbadII

googly said:


> Are you sure about that? I think after 3 years, the tenant can be asked to vacate.
> 
> Otherwise, who will rent out their apt? Imagine the tenant never wanting to move out and your investment is then totally blocked.


What I am saying is that if the contarct is for 1 year, tenant should be allowed to stay for 1 year. If the contarct is for 2 years, tenant should be allowed to stay for 2 years......and so on. If both parties agree to extend the contract for X years, it should be followed. But when the term of contract is over, tenant can be asked to vacate. 


But currently government is saying that even if the contarct was for only 1 year, the tenant can stay for another 2 years!!!!!! 

^^ That is what is wrong. 

Bucause of such rules, landlords are reluctant to rent out their units. They are rather keeping them empty so that they don't get stuck with the tenant for 3 years. Everythig should be according to the mutual agreement b/w landlord and tenant.


----------



## shaffar

yasir_hilali said:


> If you excuse me to place a notice here in Arabic regarding Areifi tower…
> 
> قام خالد سعود العريفي بالتلاعب بملك المستثمرين في برج العريفي مارينا في دبي
> ومَن له حقوق على العريفي بمراجعة السلطات المختصة في دبي



(Al Soud Al Arifi has been "playing" with the ownership status of investors in Al Arifi Marina in Dubai, and to whom has right over Al Arifi building to please contact the relevant body in Dubai)


----------



## HarryKane

IISinbadII said:


> Bucause of such rules, landlords are reluctant to rent out their units. They are rather keeping them empty so that they don't get stuck with the tenant for 3 years.


Does this currently apply to commercial space as well?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

IISinbadII said:


> But currently government is saying that even if the contarct was for only 1 year, the tenant can stay for another 2 years!!!!!!
> 
> ^^ That is what is wrong.


Yes that is really stupid, there will be many empty units not being rented because of that. I centainly would not rent my unit for 1 year if I thought I would not be able to sell it for 3 years. Better to keep it empty in case you want to sell it. 

This means that rents will go up in price for the citizens as there will be less supply on the market. Completely the opposite of what they want to achieve.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Dubai_Steve said:


> Yes that is really stupid, there will be many empty units not being rented because of that. I centainly would not rent my unit for 1 year if I thought I would not be able to sell it for 3 years. Better to keep it empty in case you want to sell it.
> 
> This means that rents will go up in price for the citizens as there will be less supply on the market. Completely the opposite of what they want to achieve.


Why dont you rent out the apartment on shortterm ? Even in JBR this is done on a large scale.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yes more and more people will rent on short term until this idiotic law is corrected.

But this means more competion in the short term rental market and the hotel market. So prices in the short term market will reduce whilst prices in the long term market will increase.


----------



## DubaiMVT

Having just completed my first attempt at dubai property investment, any tips on any projects in UAE for my next move? Any forums for Tips and Guides?


----------



## Hishamds

Dear All,
I'm hisham from Libya my family invested their money in this project and they paid cash in may 2005 and now after all these years I suddenly read all this strange things while I was searching for pictures of the project,I really don't know what's the real story I tried to call Alarefi marina on this No.: +971 42288396,but there was no answer.
if anyone knows what's the real story please email me [email protected].

thank you all


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> Yes that is really stupid, there will be many empty units not being rented because of that. I centainly would not rent my unit for 1 year if I thought I would not be able to sell it for 3 years. Better to keep it empty in case you want to sell it.
> 
> This means that rents will go up in price for the citizens as there will be less supply on the market. Completely the opposite of what they want to achieve.



you can rent out for 10-11 months , many people do this after you can increase the price


----------



## AltinD

IISinbadII said:


> But currently government is saying that even if the contarct was for only 1 year, the tenant can stay for another 2 years!!!!!!


???

Government talks only about rent caps not about forcing you to keep a tenant you don't want. 


But don't worry, when the boom will be over you will be the ones begging the tenants to rent your apartments, and that would be PAYBACK TIME.

Tenants are fed up with the scrupulous greed of a considerable part of the investors (a few even present here) and unfortunately for you, when their time will come you will be punished as a whole.


----------



## Imre

from the Nakheel:


*Last chance to own a Shoreline Apartment on The Palm Jumeirah *-	

*Final shoreline apartments for sale on The Palm Jumeirah -*

Dubai, 09 March 2008: Nakheel, one of the world’s largest and most innovative developers, has announced the release of the final Shoreline Apartments – the last opportunity to buy at the much sought-after The Palm Jumeirah apartments. 

Lining the Trunk of The Palm Jumeirah, the exclusive apartments come complete with access to private beachfront clubhouses, and boast amenities including world class fitness centres, retail outlets, swimming pools, and direct access to the island’s white sandy beaches. 

Considered the emerging heart of the island, the Trunk is connected by an innovative monorail system and is home to exceptional hotels, shopping destinations, cafés, and restaurants. The area is already a central hub of activity, with all of the 2,500 Shoreline Apartments handed over. More than 1,500 families have moved into the Shoreline Apartments, with a total of more than 2,000 families residing on the entire island. 

The five private beachfront clubhouses will open over the coming weeks, with facilities such as an Australian-themed restaurant and a Latino-style restaurant.

Manal Shaheen, Nakheel, Director, Sales, Marketing & Customer Service, said: 

“2008 will be a year of huge change for The Palm Jumeirah. With 2,000 families now residing on the island and more and more amenities opening, the development is no longer simply a concept. More and more families have moved into their homes and are enjoying the fantastic beachfront lifestyle for themselves. It is emerging as a real community, a place where people are establishing their homes and lives. 

“These Shoreline Apartments and the upcoming launch of the remaining Marina Residences apartments, as well as the Townhouses and Penthouses offer an exclusive range of beachfront living and a limited opportunity to buy on The Palm Jumeirah. The island’s many tourism, retail, and leisure components will only seek further to enhance the already expansive offering and there is no doubt that properties will remain a sound investment for the foreseeable future.”

Over the next three to four years, Nakheel will transform The Palm Jumeirah into one of the world’s premier resorts with an average of 25,000 hotel guests and 20,000 visitors a day. There will be more than 30 five star hotels on The Palm Jumeirah including Atlantis, The Palm which is now in the advanced stages of development, and Trump International Hotel & Tower, launching next quarter. The development also features marinas, and a purpose built theatre for Cirque du Soleil. The soon to be renovated QE2 will also be located off The Palm Jumeirah.


----------



## smussuw

AltinD said:


> ???
> 
> Government talks only about rent caps not about forcing you to keep a tenant you don't want.
> 
> 
> But don't worry, when the boom will be over you will be the ones begging the tenants to rent your apartments, and that would be PAYBACK TIME.
> 
> Tenants are fed up with the scrupulous greed of a considerable part of the investors (a few even present here) and unfortunately for you, when their time will come you will be punished as a whole.


Our British professor said that landlords need to be careful when to choose tenants because it is almost *impossible* to evacuate them in the UK so I wonder what would he say if that was applied here !!


----------



## Morten_Denmark

*Dubai property still stands tall*

http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=3502

Dubai property still stands tall 
By Peter Cooper on Saturday, March 8 , 2008 



In Dubai many investors typically focus on no more than the week ahead. But in matters like real estate it is more relevant to look at the long- or at least medium-term when making investments. So how is Dubai property likely to perform three to five years ahead?

The Dubai real estate market is incredibly youthful, just six years old this May, the anniversary of when the then Crown Prince General Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum said foreigners could buy property for the first time. His word sufficed until the Dubai Property Law followed three years later.

It has been a remarkable boom ever since, and in early 2008 the Real Estate Regulatory Authority – itself all of seven months old – reported that about 500 developers are active in the Dubai market. How many units are under construction or have been completed is far less certain. The Rera has embarked on a serious accounting exercise to determine the statistical state of the market. It is quite clear that the delivery of new property has lagged a long way behind the numbers promised by over-optimistic developers. Take The Palm Jumeirah, for example: Nakheel initially said it would be fully completed by the end of 2007, and yet even a cursory glance reveals it is less than half finished.

Meanwhile, new residents continue to arrive in Dubai at a phenomenal rate. One recent study suggested 250,000 new arrivals per annum for the next three to four years. Where are they all going to live? Well as you look around Dubai there are hundreds of residential towers going up, and while not everyone will want to live in a mid- to high-end apartment, or be able to afford to, this is where the majority will go. The profile of the typical expatriate resident has shifted towards white-collar professionals.

However, construction projects are running far behind schedule, and physical shortages of men and material make it hard to catch up. The balance between supply and demand is not expected to be met before 2010 at the earliest, according to a convincing study from Meed.

Where does that leave real estate prices? Clearly the rental inflation of recent years is unlikely to go away, except in so far as rents have reached a limit as to what people can realistically pay. There is also upward pressure on capital values from the demand side but yield compression is expected to be the most significant factor in raising real estate prices. What this means is that the rental returns on Dubai property will have to adjust downwards towards the cost of money. In a world where the UAE base rate has just fallen to three per cent – thanks entirely to the dollar-pegged dirham – logic suggests that capital will pursue the higher yields available on Dubai property (7-10 per cent) and drive them down towards the cost of funds (three per cent) or even below that level.

You would not find this sort of four to seven per cent yield gap in any advanced economy, and the market mechanism will ensure that the Dubai real estate market matures and closes this gap. We have already heard that local hedge fund Evolvence plans a $1 billion (Dh3.67bn) fund to take advantage of this anomaly.

With the US heading into a recession, and possibly a nastier one than generally believed, it is likely that interest rates will head lower and could stay low for some years. Imagine what kind of force that would exert on this valuation equation: the upward leverage on the already tight supply of Dubai property would be enormous. So unless the price of oil drops like a stone and the Middle East is plunged into a recession, or America attacks Iran, then the outlook for price growth in Dubai property has to be excellent in the medium term. Some commentators see all the cranes hanging over the skyline and conclude that a crash is imminent. But they don’t understand that Dubai is the most prosperous city in the middle of the world’s fastest growing population. And the very youth of the local property market is also deeply confusing.

The valuation leaps from 2002 have indeed been tremendous. But this was an artificially depressed, closed real estate market before then, and it took some big discounts to get the market rolling to begin with. Those prices were the anomaly, not the prices in the local market today. A recent HSBC survey showed that real estate prices in Abu Dhabi and Dubai were among the lowest for per capita GDP in the world.

The next step is for a leap in values towards those of comparable global cities, and perhaps beyond given the rate of growth in Dubai, which at 13 per cent per annum, has been above China’s for the past five years. But let us end on a note of caution. Property markets do not go up in a straight line for ever, and there will be a correction in Dubai one day, just like anywhere else and those who have bought close to that date will be caught out. But you probably need to look towards the time when a lot of the big projects are finished to begin to see when that might be. It could be 2010 when the Burj Dubai and the $20bn Downtown are finished; that would also be the time when the Dubai Marina is pretty much complete. Or it could be when the first phases of Dubailand are ready in 2011-12.


----------



## Morrismarina

smussuw said:


> Our British professor said that landlords need to be careful when to choose tenants because it is almost *impossible* to evacuate them in the UK so I wonder what would he say if that was applied here !!


Your Professor is talking BS. It's very easy in the UK, as long as there is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement in place (called an AST for short and nearly everybody gets one of these drawn up, it's a very simple contract) when the tenancy expires they have to leave. If they don't there is a "fast track" Court procedure whereby they are removed fairly quickly. Not a problem at all Landlords are protected very well in the UK.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yes usually this is a renewable 6 month contract. This gives more flexibility to the landlord to vacate the property if he wants to sell. Is this similar to a 6 month short term contract in Dubai ?

If you rent on a 6 month short term contract in Dubai, will there be a problem in getting the tenant out afterwards if the landlord wants to sell, or does he have to wait 2.5 years ?

Since 1 year contracts are the most common in Dubai for long term, tenants may prefer to choose a unit with that rental option as they have more protection.


----------



## smussuw

Morrismarina said:


> Your Professor is talking BS. It's very easy in the UK, as long as there is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement in place (called an AST for short and nearly everybody gets one of these drawn up, it's a very simple contract) when the tenancy expires they have to leave. If they don't there is a "fast track" Court procedure whereby they are removed fairly quickly. Not a problem at all Landlords are protected very well in the UK.


well, one of u is bullshitting then 

Either ways, I'd rather see tenants being protected than landlords. Who cares about them anyway? :lol::lol: They got enough already hno:

and I still don't understand the idea that we should have overseas investors? I mean if they want to buy they should do that to live here and not to rent then out or sell them later. We don't need investors who do that !!

Any foreigners doing that should be deported and not allowed in the country :tongue2:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Many landlords buy units in Dubai to rent out in order to pay off the mortgage that they take on them. Then in 15 years perhaps the mortgage is paid off by the rent from the tenants and they can then sell and use that money for their retirement or live in the apartment rent free.

Then on the other hand you have overseas speculators who buy off-plan units which funds the contruction of Dubai. They then sell the units on completion at a profit usually to someone who wants to live there.

Sometimes you get a combination of both. The oveseas speculator buys off-plan then rents on completion, providing housing to residents. But surely the owner should be entitled to sell his investment to someone else without having to wait 3 years for a tenant to vacate.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

smussuw said:


> well, one of u is bullshitting then


I think he means that in the UK rent is paid monthly not in 1 or 2 cheques like in Dubai. This can cause a problem as the bad tenant may not pay 1 or 2 months rent and then decides to stay in the apartment without paying any more rent. It can take up to 6 months to get the tenant forcfully removed whilst the landlord has no income and has to pay the mortgage himself. The bad tenant often trashes the apartment at great cost to the landlord before runing away as he does not care about the apartment. The landlord is then usually unable to get any of the back rent from such a bad tenant. However this usually only happens for housing bought in bad areas which are cheaper but offer better rental yields.


----------



## Naz UK

smussuw said:


> Either ways, I'd rather see tenants being protected than landlords. Who cares about them anyway? :lol::lol: They got enough already hno:


C'mon Smussuw, that's not very "local" of you, you're letting the side down! :lol: What will the boys down the local sheesha bar say?


----------



## smussuw

I know a friend who was trying to evacuate a tenant for his personal use i.e. they want to live there but the municipality was insisting that they want to evacuate them because they wanted to raise the rent, which is far from the truth. 

This is where I would go with the landlord but not when they would want to raise the rent by 300% to fulfill their greediness !!

and yea my father has 2 properties but they are rented way below the market rate, he could've doubled it every year if he wanted. One of them is in Al Jafillia area near Satwa and is only rented for 40k in an area where the rent could go to as much as 250k !!


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## Naz UK

Do you have his contact number? :naughty:


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## Morrismarina

smussuw said:


> I know a friend who was trying to evacuate a tenant for his personal use i.e. they want to live there but the municipality was insisting that they want to evacuate them because they wanted to raise the rent, which is far from the truth.
> 
> This is where I would go with the landlord but not when they would want to raise the rent by 300% to fulfill their greediness !!
> 
> and yea my father has 2 properties but they are rented way below the market rate, he could've doubled it every year if he wanted. One of them is in Al Jafillia area near Satwa and is only rented for 40k in an area where the rent could go to as much as 250k !!


Your father sounds like a fantastic guy, the kind who would make a very good friend........... 

...........but a very poor business partner. :lol:


----------



## worried1

*Some information please*

What would be the per sq ft selling price in Sports City for a service appartment of 5 star standard. eg: Kennsington Royale, Cube, Giovanni etc?

What would be the price per sq ft in the JLT area again for a 5 star place like Laguna tower.

Is it better to invest in a condo hotel in Dubai or in appartments that you rent out; especially for folks who do not live in Dubai?

Thanks:cheers:


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## Wannaberich

750.000 for a 1 bed here,reading this now I know why.Whats the point bringing in Escow etc and trying to protect buyers if this kind of thing goes on.Dubai goverment wake up !


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## Hishamds

*anyone explain*

I still don't know what's the story behind Alarefi's tower !!! was the project really stopped or sold? if it was sold then why shouldn't the new buyer continue building the tower?
and if it was stopped for how long will it stay like that?
besides :


Wannaberich said:


> 750.000 for a 1 bed here,reading this now I know why.Whats the point bringing in Escow etc and trying to protect buyers if this kind of thing goes on.Dubai goverment wake up !


where did you find this price? on what floor of the tower?


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## Wannaberich

GNAds4U.com


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> well, one of u is bullshitting then
> 
> Either ways, I'd rather see tenants being protected than landlords. Who cares about them anyway? :lol::lol: They got enough already hno:
> 
> and I still don't understand the idea that we should have overseas investors? I mean if they want to buy they should do that to live here and not to rent then out or sell them later. We don't need investors who do that !!
> 
> Any foreigners doing that should be deported and not allowed in the country :tongue2:


والحمد لله لدينا بعض معقولة المسؤولين في الحكومة


----------



## dubaigreen

You probably need foreign investors to drive up the prices, which also benefits the (patriot) local. If you only allow foreigners to buy a unit to live in, it will not have a big impact on the prices. For instance, EITC/DU only has connected around 40k new connections in the new area's, like Palm, Dubai Marina, etc.., that is not a lot. That brings me to observation: how real are all these prices? Are there real people buying these steep prices on the Palm and in Dubai Marina (or now in Arabian Ranches, above 6M for a big villa, that is more than 1M euro !!). I live on the palm, and still half of the apartments are empty, waiting for somebody to pay a lot for low quality (noisy apartments, lot of leakages, etc..). I believe this market is still full of speculators, and one day, the truth will be that there are not enough end-users (foreigners) to buy the inflated prices.

Sorry, I am in a bad mood, asking myself if we are all getting fooled in this non-transparant market. Do not take it too seriously, even though there might be some truth in it.

Have a nice day !


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## Hishamds

thank you sady...
I knew that theres something strange about that,maybe some people who work in Alarefi project r doing such things without awareness of Alarefi's headquarter.
that's possible.


----------



## Monument

Morrismarina said:


> Not sure I agree with you Altin I reckon Dubai is comparable to any other major Western city and probably more so, as it's tax free.
> Perhaps I'm ignorant of the market then or a dirty speculator........or both :lol: But I reckon prices still have a way to go yet.


With rental yields (despite artificial cap) at 10%+, the indicators are that property is underpriced (or rents overpriced). So either property prices increase a bit, reducing yields to norms of 3-6%, or rent prices come down (again reducing yields). 

I'd bet on the first outcome, for the next 18 months, anyway with a mild decrease in rental "yields" (but not rent "prices").


----------



## IISinbadII

Monument said:


> With rental yields (despite artificial cap) at 10%+, the indicators are that property is underpriced (or rents overpriced). So either property prices increase a bit, reducing yields to norms of 3-6%, or rent prices come down (again reducing yields).
> 
> I'd bet on the first outcome, for the next 18 months, anyway with a mild decrease in rental "yields" (but not rent "prices").


Where in Dubai are the rental yields at 10%+ ????

The exception is places like International City where capital appreciation is minimal. But mostly, after taking out service charges, the yealds are appx. 6-8% for apartments and appx. 4-6% for villas.


----------



## Naz UK

Well according to those 2 lovely bastions of honest realty in Dubai (Damac and Betterhomes) they're currently advertising Ocean Heights 1 bed apartments for sale at 1.9million dirhams, with, wait for it........ 10% rental yields.


----------



## Sady

I am not sure about that because the person that phoned me was from Saudi instead of Dubai and he is the one who had to authorise my sales.

I have just digged into my email to find his contact details
Email: [email protected]
Al-Areifi Real Estate Co. ( Head Office ), Riyadh, KSA
M.M. HAWA 
Marketing Manager

Hope this helps

Sady


----------



## Salameer

*Dubai Real Estate Peaked*

I have just got back from Dubai after my only visit and boy does it look like a frenzy. Everyone, it seemed to me, is looking to make a fast buck.
The gold souk butchers will try to get away with 35dhiram/g labour cost on top of gold value when it should by no more than 9dhirams.
Property agents will sell you buy now as everything is selling fast and the prices are moving up 2% every month.
Dubai Malls are selling goods at prices matching European stores. Now, who wants to buy gifts from there to cart back to Europe.
What utter bollox!
So, does the dream live on?
There will be a reality check in the next 6 to 9 months.
Here is an example of what is on offer.
Residentials in Downtown and Business Bay are being touted at 2000+aed psf. So, if you buy a 1000sf 1 bed, you will have handed over about £275K by completion. 
Now, keeping in mind a possibility of marginal increase in price with some serious threat of a correction, can anyone see, who is going to be paying almost £30K(220,000 Dhirams) a year rent when you can lock into an AlBarsha 5bed villa for at least 2 years for around £35K p.a.

Those who are touting 10% yields are ffs. You have got to allow for around 30% maintenance charges. Because, the charges will only go up, not down. 

Now do the maths and see if you still get 10% yield. I couldn't!

With so many properties being flipped, I can only see another US style property debacle.

Feel free to convince me otherwise.
:cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Best thing now is to buy a resale. You can pick up some great bargains still in great locations. eg. Palm Jumeirah or Dubai Marina for about 1200 - 1300 psf that are completing soon. You can then rent at 10% - 15% gross yield (before charges). Also look for locations or projects that allow short term rentals. In that case yield can be higher still.

But yes it is difficult to see that the rent will continue to increase in line with prices for much longer, as salaries will not be enough, in which case we can see that Dubai will be entering a cooling phase. Property prices will continue to go up but rents can not continue to go up as fast (so yield will be decreasing). Eventually prices will fall or more likely for Dubai stagnate as supply is still short. Probably the last chance to buy somthing in Dubai now at a good yield that is why we are seeing a last minute buying panic frenzy which is pushing prices up.

Also we may see less interest from investors in this next phase but more interest from end users who want to buy to live as projects such as Dubai Marina near completion.


----------



## was2103

Salameer said:


> I have just got back from Dubai after my only visit and boy does it look like a frenzy. Everyone, it seemed to me, is looking to make a fast buck.
> The gold souk butchers will try to get away with 35dhiram/g labour cost on top of gold value when it should by no more than 9dhirams.
> Property agents will sell you buy now as everything is selling fast and the prices are moving up 2% every month.
> Dubai Malls are selling goods at prices matching European stores. Now, who wants to buy gifts from there to cart back to Europe.
> What utter bollox!
> So, does the dream live on?
> There will be a reality check in the next 6 to 9 months.
> Here is an example of what is on offer.
> Residentials in Downtown and Business Bay are being touted at 2000+aed psf. So, if you buy a 1000sf 1 bed, you will have handed over about £275K by completion.
> Now, keeping in mind a possibility of marginal increase in price with some serious threat of a correction, can anyone see, who is going to be paying almost £30K(220,000 Dhirams) a year rent when you can lock into an AlBarsha 5bed villa for at least 2 years for around £35K p.a.
> 
> Those who are touting 10% yields are ffs. You have got to allow for around 30% maintenance charges. Because, the charges will only go up, not down.
> 
> Now do the maths and see if you still get 10% yield. I couldn't!
> 
> With so many properties being flipped, I can only see another US style property debacle.
> 
> Feel free to convince me otherwise.
> :cheers:


Dude, don't over react.

That price you are quoting for a Barsha villa is low and how much do people pay for apartments in the docklands / wharf area? Which is rather depressing when you compare it to Dubai. Or anywhere for that matter.

Growth is driven by demand here. And foreign investment on this scale cannot retreat as fast as bust lovers think it will. Mo knows the game, believe that.


----------



## Salameer

^^ happy 18th


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai the city of multiple property cycles?

I wonder if we will see different property cycles running at the same time in Dubai.

For example Dubai Waterfront city which is just being launched will get lots of new speculators investing but the price per sq ft will have to be much higher due to construction costs. Meanwhile Dubai Marina will slowly change into a place to live rather than to invest and speculators will be thin on the ground there.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> Meanwhile Dubai Marina will slowly change into a place to live rather than to invest and speculators will be thin on the ground there.


^^ That could take a long time. It is becoming a place to live but almost half of the Marina is empty. A lot of towers still to come.


----------



## Monument

Salameer said:


> I have just got back from Dubai after my only visit and boy does it look like a frenzy. Everyone, it seemed to me, is looking to make a fast buck.
> The gold souk butchers will try to get away with 35dhiram/g labour cost on top of gold value when it should by no more than 9dhirams.
> Property agents will sell you buy now as everything is selling fast and the prices are moving up 2% every month.
> Dubai Malls are selling goods at prices matching European stores. Now, who wants to buy gifts from there to cart back to Europe.
> What utter bollox!
> So, does the dream live on?
> There will be a reality check in the next 6 to 9 months.
> Here is an example of what is on offer.
> Residentials in Downtown and Business Bay are being touted at 2000+aed psf. So, if you buy a 1000sf 1 bed, you will have handed over about £275K by completion.
> Now, keeping in mind a possibility of marginal increase in price with some serious threat of a correction, can anyone see, who is going to be paying almost £30K(220,000 Dhirams) a year rent when you can lock into an AlBarsha 5bed villa for at least 2 years for around £35K p.a.
> 
> Those who are touting 10% yields are ffs. You have got to allow for around 30% maintenance charges. Because, the charges will only go up, not down.
> 
> Now do the maths and see if you still get 10% yield. I couldn't!
> 
> With so many properties being flipped, I can only see another US style property debacle.
> 
> Feel free to convince me otherwise.
> :cheers:


Anyone who thinks Dubai is expensive (except by local area standards) is in dreamland. 

You should see the prices here in Hong Kong where I'm based! 

You are paying US$10,000/month to rent a three bedroom 1,500 sq ft in a decent development. Lesser developments without gym/pool are cheaper - but not much. Rental yields here are 3% (and the norm is that service fees are not accounted for in rental yield numbers). It is not that far off these prices in cities like Mumbai, Shanghai and Singapore - and Tokyo is about the same as HK.

In Dubai you are paying at least half that (probably 1/3 that - at whatever quality level). Dubai remains very cheap with a very high quality of life (admittedly with some restrictions - lack of public transport, some censorship, etc).

If Dubai is what it claims to be and seems to be - a new world center of finance, media and transportation it remains really cheap.


----------



## smussuw

of course Europeans will say that the property is not expensive since it isn't getting any expensive with the decline of the dollar. We have a dark future if we continue our stubbornness and decided to sink along with the dollar.

We should depegg immediately :bash:


----------



## Tractor

Nearly every major bank expects the dollar to strengthen towards the end of the year and even more in 2009 so it would be hasty to do anything now.


----------



## High Times

I went to a seminar in London yesterday with a top US investment Bank "Chase Manhattan" and they said that the US government is in denial about the econemy and the worst is yet to come in America. 

Dont rule out 0% interest rates they said "the US econemy needs urgent CPR (Cardiopulmonary resuscitation). I had to ask what CPR meant - Doh !!


----------



## smussuw

suicide suicide hno:


----------



## Monument

High Times said:


> I went to a seminar in London yesterday with a top US investment Bank "Chase Manhattan" and they said that the US government is in denial about the econemy and the worst is yet to come in America.
> 
> Dont rule out 0% interest rates they said "the US econemy needs urgent CPR (Cardiopulmonary resuscitation). I had to ask what CPR meant - Doh !!


The US may end up in the same position as Japan (since 1990) - very low interest rates, declining real estate prices and a stock market in never ending doldrums. Unlikely to last as long as it has in Japan - _the US has two points Japan does not_ - a rapidly increasing population (Japan's is declining) and flexible labor laws.

Nevertheless it is so important the AED is de-pegged from the USD - as inflation will become rampant in the UAE if it does not. In addition, the UAE's economy, which is going a different way to the US, is subject to economic policy called by the US Fed - silly position to be in!


----------



## AltinD

^^ The inflation is already rampant here


----------



## beer51

Hi guys 

Sorry to jump in, but does anyone know of a good company (in Dubai) that carries out snagging work. Any help would be much appreciated it.

Thanks in advance


----------



## jacobdxb

beer51 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Sorry to jump in, but does anyone know of a good company (in Dubai) that carries out snagging work. Any help would be much appreciated it.
> 
> Thanks in advance


Speak to www.exclusiveuae.com - they are good, they give the developers a really hard time to fix the snags in time... :cheers:


----------



## AltinD

^^ Yada, yada, yada at $2 per share who wouldn't ... apart the fact there are billions of them. phhh


----------



## Mavekris

welcome to dubai 




MirCat said:


> Hi
> 
> hoping someone can help me! i went along to a property exhibition being held by SkyCom Investments/ACW holdings - and put some money into their Platinum One development. My understanding was that i would recieve a contract before payments became due but it seems they want me to pay the first part and then get a contract. hno:
> 
> Is this normal in Dubai as they keep telling me?
> Has anyone invested with them before?
> As they have ESCROW and RERA do i have nothing to worry about?
> 
> Any advice would be really appreciated!!
> 
> Thanks in advance


----------



## IISinbadII

*Dubai property: Average Price Index 
(by Better Homes) *

*VILLAS*

http://media.ameinfo.com/tables_and_graphs/2008/3/av%20price%20index%20villas%20v4.pdf

*APARTMENTS*

http://media.ameinfo.com/tables_and_graphs/2008/3/av%20price%20index%20apartments%20v4.pdf

*COMMERCIAL AND OFFICE SPACE *

http://media.ameinfo.com/tables_and_graphs/2008/3/av%20price%20index%20office%20v4.pdf

(pdf files/ameinfo.com)


----------



## cugeneva

MirCat said:


> My understanding was that i would recieve a contract before payments became due but it seems they want me to pay the first part and then get a contract. hno:
> 
> Is this normal in Dubai as they keep telling me?


Some developers do issue contracts relative quickly some don't...... but with Escrow account in place and RERA approval..... at least the most important points are fullfilled.


----------



## High Times

IISinbadII said:


> *Dubai property: Average Price Index
> (by Better Homes) *


Interesting, thanks for sharing Sinbad.

i would like to know the methodology behined the numbers.


----------



## Naz UK

Well im assuming the figures are based on Betterhomes' actually sales, given that they've quoted quite accurate min. and max. rates... e.g. I quite clearly remember the villa that sold in Emirates Hill for Dhs 56Million.


----------



## jacobdxb

Today, the fed lowered the interest rate with .75 % to 2.25%... Have anybody seen an impact on Dubai mortgage rates yet, or is it to early to say anything?

Is it to early to say, that property values in the UAE should rise another 15% on the basis of this? Before the rate cut, the mortgage rate was around 5.75% and now it should be around 5%, and if you monthly repayments stays the same, the price of the property in AED should go up by 15%...


----------



## High Times

The FED dont set interest rates in th UAE.

On a related note this is worth a read.

From Emirates Business 24/7


Why are home loan rates in the UAE such a rip-off? 

Let us start with the international banks lending in the UAE mortgage market. Why is a customer in the United Kingdom paying 6.75 per cent for a home loan – which means the bank is earning a margin of 1.25 per cent above the base rate – while a mortgage in the UAE 

will cost 8.25 per cent, a thumping 4.75 per cent margin above the local discount rate? 

That means an international bank has a profit margin on mortgages in the UAE that is three times higher than in the UK. To be fair, these global giants are not alone. 


All 23 UAE home loan lenders charge similar interest or profit rates for mortgages on residential property. But the smaller lenders can at least argue they have a higher cost base and the global giants are just profiteering in an emerging market. 

Some 90 per cent of home loans in the UAE are adjustable rate mortgages, where the interest rate is adjusted according to indices such as the London Interbank Offered Rate (Libor) or the Emirates Interbank Offer Rate (Eibor). Currently, interest or profit rates in the UAE stand at Libor or Eibor plus 400 to 500 basis points. 

The UAE mortgage or profit rates have not been adjusted since the US Federal Reserve started cutting its base rate last year. Only last week there was a cumulative 1.25 per cent cut by the Fed, and the UAE Central Bank followed suit immediately. Did the local home loan companies jump to cut their rates?

Far from it and with good reason: banks like to be slow in reducing rates and quick in raising them to squeeze extra profits out of borrowers. Smaller home loan companies can argue they have to raise funds through mortgage-backed securities and not the inter-bank market, and yes this is more expensive.

But surely this is all a question of degree: what is sound business profit and what is a rip-off? Surely it is in the mortgage companies’ long-term interest to keep home loan rates as affordable as possible to grow their market? 

Investment bank EFG-Hermes has published a study of the nascent UAE home mortgage market, which points to a 10-fold growth from $4.4billion (Dh16bn) today to $44bn by 2012. The implications for the development of the real estate markets in the UAE are enormous both in terms of expanding the market to the widest ownership as well as for selling prices.

The study concludes the existing local mortgage market leaders, 
Amlak Finance and Tamweel, are both likely to lose mortgage market share to other local and international banks, although both companies clearly have huge scope to expand their business in the five-year period. 

You have to wonder why, with 23 lenders in the UAE home market, one bank or mortgage company has not yet chosen to take the lead and slash home loan lending rates, or profit rates as they are known by Islamic lenders. At the moment, Amlak and Tamweel are competing to provide the fastest approval of loans – one hour or 48 hours, respectively. Why not compete on the actual mortgage or profit rate? 

In the UK, banks such as HSBC proudly battled the competition by offering keen mortgage rates that are currently only 1.25 per cent above the base rate. A couple of years ago it might have been reasonable to argue the mortgage market in the UAE was small and so institutions needed to charge more to cover their costs. 

But mortgage lending is a very profitable business today. Amlak has posted profits of Dh301 million for 2007, an increase of 131 per cent over 2006, according to preliminary financial results. Tamweel has posted a net profit for 2007 of Dh451m, an increase of 195 per cent compared to 2006, a figure that excludes the Dh699m of income from IPO proceeds. This is the third consecutive year that Tamweel’s net profit has increased three-fold.

The implication that UAE mortgage companies are making excessive profits at the expense of mortgage borrowers is clear enough. Perhaps in a still small but growing market such as the UAE, a 200-basis-point margin would be justified. But 400 basis points is quite outrageous.

It is also not good for the development of the local real estate sector, because the cost of finance is being kept artificially high and distorting the development of the market. Fewer people are able to afford homes as a consequence and landlords can, therefore, charge higher rents from people who have no choice but to rent. 

Perhaps free market competition, or intervention from the UAE Central Bank will sort out this hiccup in the development of the local property market. But at the moment home loans in the UAE are a big rip-off.


----------



## jacobdxb

Lloyds TSB offers mortgages on Dubai properties to non residents at 4.4% in HKD. The HKD is also pegged to the USD, so this must be one of the best offers around. The offer is available from their Hong Kong branch...

That means, you can own a 2 bed 2 mill AED apartment in the JBR for 5133 AED per month (interest only) with 30% downpayment... This apartment can be rented out for 140000 AED per year, meaning you can pocket 67000 AED per year after paying the service charge of 9.5 AED per sqft!!! 

In my opinion, this means, that either the rent should go down or the capital value of the Dubai property should go up at least 100% to correct for this...


----------



## jacobdxb

High Times, actually the UAE central bank has to follow the FED's interest rates - if the UAE interest rate is higher than the feds rate, you could RISK FREE earn a margin by borrowing in dollars and depositing in AED, as the exchange rate between the two currencies is fixed.


----------



## High Times

Yes, as i have just tried to illustrate to you by posting the article above.

UAE central bank rates and thus FED rates do not dictate what mortgage rates are offered by mortgage providers.

This spread or difference is the Banks margin and differs from country to country and organisation to organisation.

Unfortunately as a private investor you can't borrow directly from the UAE Central Bank or indeed the FED or Bank of England.


----------



## jacobdxb

High Times, it's a great article, and definitely worth the read. And indeed the margin on mortgages in the UAE is simply outrageous!!! 400 - 500 bp!!! In Scandinavia, the mortgage providers currently charge between 60 and 80 bp margin!! 

And you're right that the mortgage providers doesn't have to follow the central banks rates. Also, the UAE mortgage market is imperfect - there is simply not enough providers, and/or the providers have probably agreed to some extent on the rates on offer... But then again, this might be the price you pay for a 1 hour loan approval


----------



## Dubai_Steve

jacobdxb said:


> Lloyds TSB offers mortgages on Dubai properties to non residents at 4.4% in HKD. The HKD is also pegged to the USD, so this must be one of the best offers around. The offer is available from their Hong Kong branch...
> 
> That means, you can own a 2 bed 2 mill AED apartment in the JBR for 5133 AED per month (interest only) with 30% downpayment... This apartment can be rented out for 140000 AED per year, meaning you can pocket 67000 AED per year after paying the service charge of 9.5 AED per sqft!!!
> 
> In my opinion, this means, that either the rent should go down or the capital value of the Dubai property should go up at least 100% to correct for this...


Thanks for the tip.


http://www.lloydstsb-asia.com/product/mortgage_tc.html

Terms & Conditions
Residential properties in Dubai

Eligibility

Available to non-residents of Dubai and in respect of agreed developers (currently Emaar, Nakheel, Dubai Properties & Union Properties) and agreed developments only.

Interest cost

2.5% p.a. over the Lloyds TSB Cost of Funds rate for the relevant currency. Available in GBP, USD, Euro, Yen, Swiss Franc, AUD, NZD, HKD, CAD, SGD. Please note that AED is not available .Interest rates are normally floating, based on a 3-month period. For information on our interest rates, please visit our website www.lloydstsb-asia.com/rate/loan.asp


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai ranked 40th in a list of the world’s most expensive cities*

Dubai has been ranked 40th in a list of the world’s most expensive cities, sitting just ahead of Hong Kong in a table led by Oslo, Copenhagen and London.

Swiss banking firm UBS carried out prices and earnings surveys in 71 cities to compile a comparison of purchasing power around the globe.

The top three were closely followed by Dublin, which jumped up the table from 13th place in 2005, Zurich and Stockholm, with Helsinki, Geneva, Paris and Vienna completing the top ten.

New York was listed 18th, with London in 26th position. Manama in Bahrain, the only other Gulf state listed, ranked 55th. 

The list was based on the cost of a weighted shopping basket “geared to Western European consumer habits” containing 122 goods and services.

Dubai, however, ranked 34th when rents were taken into consideration, with London top of the table.

Dubai was also listed 34th for wage levels, based on wage figures, social security contributions and working hours across 14 ‘widespread’ professions.

The city, “recreating itself as a new financial centre, and with the large United Arab Emirates oil reserves, offers one of the lowest tax and social contribution rates in our rankings,” the report said. Manama was ranked 44th.

Residents in Copenhagen, Oslo and Zurich take home the most cash, with workers in Zurich, Geneva, Dublin and Luxembourg having the most to spend for the hours they work. An hour’s labour in Dublin delivers almost 28% more purchasing power than one in Amsterdam, the report found.

Dubai was marked 26th for purchasing power, listed above Seoul and Prague and below Taipei. Manama came in at 42nd, slightly below Singapore and above Buenos Aires.


----------



## eddy123

> Eligibility
> 
> Available to non-residents of Dubai and in respect of agreed developers (currently Emaar, Nakheel, Dubai Properties & Union Properties) and agreed developments only.


What is meant by "non-residents" of Dubai?

Does this mean, when I'm a resident of Abu Dhabi, I will qualify? I'm interested in purchasing an apartment in RAK. I own a mortgage free villa in the Meadows (Emaar). So if I take a mortgage on my house to finance the apartment in RAK, I should be OK, right?

Eddy


----------



## jacobdxb

^^ I think they might have meant non-resident in the UAE, but it doesn't hurt to ask them (Lloyds TSB in Hong Kong)...


----------



## mikeyk07

excellent insight Ali, many thanks !! Please keep us updated with any further little snippets of information ! I have a 1 bedroom apartment in the Venetian and i'm starting to get excited !!


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai Properties revamped into a holding company 

Dubai Properties, master developer and a member of Dubai Holding, on Saturday revamped its corporate structure and announced the establishment of a new holding company - Dubai Properties Group (DPG).

Through this restructuring, the company has consolidated its current operations into distinct business units, and brought them under one umbrella organisation. 

The new group structure comprises six business units focusing on real estate verticals such as hospitality, property services, international investments, engineering and real estate development.










Each entity will operate as a stand-alone business subsidiary within DPG, individually accountable for the unit's management systems, strategic planning and business results. 

DPG plans to seek investment opportunities on a global scale, launching an aggressive expansion and diversification drive to double its investment portfolio up to Dh700 billion over the next three years.

"We are confident the new organisational framework of Dubai Properties Group will significantly contribute to our long term strategic objectives, which are in line with Dubai Holding's vision and Dubai's strategic goals. We have launched three new entities as the first initiative, which will be followed by more futuristic plans," said Hashim Al Dabal, Chairman of Board of Directors, DPG.

In addition to Dubai Properties, the new group structure comprises Salwan, Injaz, Dubai Asset Management, Dubai Retail and Dubai Hospitality.

Salwan will provide property management services to all DPG's entities as well as other organisations. It will run several operations for its commercial and residential stakeholders, including strata and property management, sales and leasing of properties, Mazad Auction House, and property advisory services.

Injaz is mandated with the creation of fully-integrated sustainable communities based on green building guidelines.

The Dubai Asset Management Company will have three subsidiaries, including the Dubai Security Group, offering specialised security services for the first time in Dubai in cooperation with Dubai Police. 

Dubai Retail will focus on constructing shopping malls. Dubai Hospitality will endeavour to drive the hotel industry and play a holistic role in studying sectoral market trends. 

via gulfnews


----------



## bizzybonita

Dheeraj & East Coast's Dubai investments total Dh5.2b 

Dheeraj & East Coast's Dubai investments total Dh5.2b: Dheeraj & East Coast L.L.C (DEC), one of the leading private realty developers in Dubai has invested Dh4.5 billion in various property projects across Dubai till date; with the launch of its 2 new real estate projects, the Dh300 million 'The Garden Heights' and the Dh400 million 'The HQ' in Jumeirah Village, Dubai, they have crossed Dh5.2 billion. Dheeraj & East Coast L.L.C (DEC) is a joint venture between the Mumbai-based leading property developers, Dheeraj Group and the UAE-based East Coast Group.

'The Garden Heights' is a retail & residential freehold project and 'The HQ' is purely commercial. DEC’s upcoming five phased-development in Jumeirah Village, 'The Lawns' is being built at an investment of over Dh300 million. Mr. Dheeraj Wadhawan, Managing Director, Dheeraj & East Coast L.L.C., said: “The announcement of our two new projects comes in the backdrop of a strong investor enthusiasm towards our previous project in Jumeirah Village-The Lawns, with 100% of the project already sold-out.” 

With a built-up area of over 231,000 square feet, 'The Garden Heights' offers 280 residential units including 2 floors of 31 three-bedroom duplexes, 65 one-bedroom apartments, 36 two-bedroom apartments and 146 studios. 'The HQ' is a purely commercial project providing modern and sophisticated office space with higher degrees of functionality along with cutting-edge communication facilities. Slated for completion in the third quarter of the 2011, office space in this real estate project in Dubai has been very competitively priced.


----------



## bizzybonita

ETA Star rewards top performing real estate agents 

ETA Star Properties, Dubai leading real estate development firm, has invited 30 of its top performing real estate agents from world over to an all-expenses paid trip to its annual Star Select Convention as an expression of gratitude to their unrelenting support. The theme of this year’s 4-day event at the most scenic and historic locations across Cyprus was ‘Guts and Glory’.

Abid Junaid, Executive Director, ETA Star Properties, said, “The real estate agents are our partners in growth. The ETA Star Select Convention provides us an opportunity to reward them for their valued contribution and commitment towards us. Going forward, we will continue to build stronger partnerships with them, as we expand our portfolio in and outside the UAE”.

The ETA Star Select Club programme is an exclusive channel management initiative launched by ETA Star in 2006. The ETA Star Select Club is an exclusive ‘Rewards & Privileges’ program developed for its preferred agents. Peter Penhall, Chief Executive, Gowealthy Holdings FZC, was amongst the attendees of the Convention.

Via Gowealthy


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai's realtors deposit Dh1b into escrow accounts 

Dubai's realtors deposit Dh1b into escrow accounts: A total of Dh1 billion has already been deposited by developers in escrow accounts with 10 of the 30 banks approved by the Dubai Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera).Escrow accounts were mandated for most development projects starting in December to make sure investors’ funds are safeguarded. 

The decision was also taken to encourage more investors to enter the market, according to Sheikh Juma bin Thani bin Juma Al Maktoum, chief of the escrow account team at Rera. Rera’s new regulations also require property developers to register with the authority, and so far 567 firms have been approved. “The agency also registered 1,305 real estate projects in the emirate to date – both announced projects and those under construction,” Al Maktoum said. The Dh1bn deposited so far is related to 250 projects. 

R


----------



## Ali_Syed

hey mikey, nice to hear. i also have a 1 bed in mediteranian and a studio in european, but am going to sell the studio now!


----------



## Imre

this is the main problem in Dubai now,delays everywhere just because of this:


----------



## mikeyk07

Ali, why you selling the studio ? seems like prices are going up on this project !!! Dubai Sports City will be fantastic, I can't wait until it gets really underway..


----------



## Ali_Syed

well, i bought the 1 bed to keep of course. but got the studio always with the view to sell it after a year. and it has been a year since i had it. so now time to sell!


----------



## eddy123

*the real issue here*

Was just talking to a person in the cement business saying that the actually reason is that cement factories are not outputting enough cement to supply the market because of the regulated price of cement. You might already know that mayor big developers CEO’s have a place in the UAE government. To succeed the Palm and other Emaar developments, they had to regulate the price of cement for their own benefit, a smart step. Currently the shortage of cement is created by the cement industries, as they say they are making a loss due to inflation and higher cost of operation. They just want a higher price and as soon when they reach that deal, output will be increased. It is almost the story of OPEC!


----------



## Hishamds

I sent them emails but they didn't responde...but anyway my brother receieved email from them they said that they are going to pay him back his "writes" the meant "rights",that was not the only one mistake,their messege was a mess I'll try to post it here to see what kind of quality they offer.
well our situation is: "our flat is not for sale"
we payed in cash about 3 years ago.
but we should watch them and see if they really stopped the project,only Imre can help us from time to time I guess he lives there in Dubai.
PLease Imre send us any pics or at least tell us if the project was really halted or not.


----------



## Dxb2008

Hi I have an Investment related question. I am planning to buy a property in Al Saqran Tower in Jumeirah Lake Towers, Plot R3.I would really like any information on the developer, project, or any views on this Project, whether its a good buy or not. I have been offered the Property at AED 1100/Sqft. The Project has some huge delays,but I am still considering it because the price is cheaper than other projects. Have been trying to find info on the developer on the net, but cant seem to find much. 

Thanks.


----------



## naser99

*it's a mess*

thanks for everyone for contributing to this issue. I bought a unit in Areifi in early 2005, yesterday they contacted me through the sales agent which I bought it from in Kuwait and offered to return my purchase money plus 20% interest. their offer is really suspicious. the sales agent advised me not to pursuit legal battle as owner/developer of al areifi marina in Dubai might fall for bankruptcy. can anyone from Dubai bring us the latest update at ground zero ? I'm sure there is a legal governmental office that deals with authenticating his claims.
anyone can help us reach the authority in Dubai with our issue?.


----------



## Mavekris

HI All 

My friend is looking to rent his apartment in the burj residence south ridge is any one intrested , please let me know ..

Can some also please suggest whom to approach for letting the property 

thanks


----------



## Naz UK

Another skyscraper forum? :dunno:


----------



## nasim50

*RERA*

RERA were supposed to bring some security to the Dubai market.

I personally think they're are bunch of jokers considering the DAMAC situation and now Palm Springs scam (maybe worse than the lighthouse problem a couple of years ago)

So got a really simple question:

If a developer has been given RERA certification and has an escrow account in place, does that mean the developer will "*definitely"* build that project?

Asked RERA and they could'nt answer it, bunch of retards getting paid too much for doing jack shit.:bash::bash:


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Buy something that is complete or near completion. If off-plan, only go for government backed developers like Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Properties.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dont forget :

The RERA registration of a property developer will stand cancelled if s/he:

• Declares bankruptcy;
• Violates any laws connected with real estate development;
• Cancels his/her license; and
• *Doesn’t start construction within six months *after getting hold of approval from Dubai Land Department for selling property off-plan.


Since DAMAC do not comply with the escrow regulation and did not start construction should they not have their RERA license revoked ?


----------



## Beppe786

i have bought a off plan property in dubai marina (Bay Central)

im located in the UK and want to open a Bank Account in Dubai?

How easy is it? 
how long would it take?
can i open one from the UK? or would i have to visit duabi..
any good banks anyone recommends which can be accessed online from UK?


thanks


----------



## jacobdxb

The Damac situation could seriously damage the Dubai market... I can't believe the UAE government hasn't done anything about them yet...


----------



## bizzybonita

The regions property market is facing the risk of being overstretched

The regions property market is facing the risk of being overstretched, said an industry official during a recent conference held at Dubai.

The real estate transactions in Dubai were worth $18billion in 2006, and as per current estimates a staggering $158billion is invested in the property sector of Dubai.

A survey, conducted by 'The Financial Times' reported that Dubai is 'at the cutting edge' of world property markets, with property values shooting up by 150 percent over the last two years, which is a total contrast to the UK property values, which increased only by 240 percent over the past ten years.

According to a UAE-based developer, there is a lot of pent-up capital, looking closely at this region, but, returns will be crushed based on escalating costs. Over the past two years, Dubai has witnessed that rents for premium office space has grown more than double, mounting to $1,172 per square meter in few areas. Three years ago, this figure was only about $538.

The main factor contributing to Dubai's property boom is the ever-increasing population, which is expected to touch 1.9million in 2010. Low-cost property is high in demand, but due to soaring prices of materials, investment in this sector is losing its appeal.

To add to this, high construction costs are hindering the progress of many projects, which is a growing cause of worry among developers and investors, alike. Few developers are even buying back their own stock, unable to continue construction.

A Dubai-based developer has agreed that during the past three months, there has been a steady increase in the sale of partly finished buildings.

The Managing Director of an international consultancy firm says that the problem in Dubai is that it has plenty of inexperienced developers, who are building too much, too quickly, and it is getting hard to sustain them.

R


----------



## was2103

jacobdxb said:


> The Damac situation could seriously damage the Dubai market... I can't believe the UAE government hasn't done anything about them yet...


Damac has sold a hand full of towers and only delivered a couple. They are a poor investment even when they do deliver... Stay away from Damac and they are very unlikely to impact the market at all...


----------



## bizzybonita

House prices to climb 15% this year
Sunday, 23 March 2008 


Massive housing shortages within Dubai's booming property market will thrust real estate prices up 15% this year, according to a report by Standard Chartered.

The bank said the emirate’s real estate market faced years of undersupply due to population growth and project delays.

“Our view is that we will see growth rates of around 15% in real estate prices this year. We would view any rises above this as a sign of overheating," Philippe Dauba-Pantanacce, senior economist at Standard Chartered, said in the report.

"Residential demand has not been fully met by supply, because of higher than expected population growth, and because the supply side has been unable to deliver the planned units."

New demand for residential units is estimated at around 70,000 a year, but the supply is only 57,000 units, with insiders suggesting that only a third of the residential units planned for 2007 have been delivered, the report said.

Dubai’s projected population growth rate of 10% per annum would also well exceed the emirate’s planned housing and infrastructure capacity, it said.

The report said prices in the commercial sector would also continue to rise, despite the large number of units expected to come onto the market.

“A substantial amount of office space is expected to come onto the market in the next 18 to 36 months, which could ease price pressures, but we do not see prices collapsing in this environment,” Dauba-Pantanacce said.

Dauba-Pantanacce said concerns that Dubai's property market was a "bubble" waiting to burst were unjustified as the market was underpinned by very strong fundamentals.

However, he said sector needed urgent management to stop it overheating due to inflation, which hit a 19-year high of 9.3% in 2006, the latest official figure.

Dauba-Pantanacce called on the UAE to revalue or sever its link to the US currency to help fight inflation.

“Because of the dollar peg, the expansionary policy of the Fed is being imported into the Gulf, meaning that borrowers are being rewarded and the clear danger is more speculative inflows into the housing market,” he warned.

Sky-high house prices in Dubai will rocket even further this year as the price of materials and wages drive up construction costs, Egyptian investment bank EFG-Hermes said on Tuesday.

Egyptian investment bank EFG-Hermes in January predicted UAE house prices would rise by 5-10% this year, but last month said strong demand for property, coupled with a housing supply shortage, were likely to push prices up even further.

via arabianbusiness


----------



## Naz UK

*Margaret Thatcher Resigns*
Tuesday, 20th November, 1990. 
The Guardian


----------



## jacobdxb

^^ :lol::lol::lol: ... not bad Naz, I think I know what you mean... :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## bizzybonita

come on John Meijer !


----------



## Ali_Syed

Looks like the canal residence has released their new guide prices for the upcoming June launch. On their site now the studio apartments start at AED 900,000 whereas the 1 bed starts from AED 1.2M


----------



## disgruntled

*Bonnington Tower prices*

Hi all

Bonnington tower on their website are advertising a one bed for 299000 sterling and a two bed from 350000 sterling.
This includes their furniture package and one car space.

There are a no of estate agents advertising a one bed for 1,135,000 Aed and a 2 bed for 1,707,000 Aed. Add another 180000 for furniture and 56000 for car space and convert to sterling at 7 AED to the pound and that still leaves a difference of over 80000 sterling.
Are bonnington asking too much or have the resellers through the estate agents drastically undervalued!

Appreciate some comments and info from those in the know about the current state of the market re this development.


----------



## Krazy

I'm trying to rent out my apartment at Marina Promenade. Any suggestions regarding which agent might be the best to go with?


----------



## Naz UK

What are u charging and how many bedrooms?


----------



## Krazy

1 bedroom.. not sure how much I should expect and ask for.. our snagging agent told us she could find someone for 125K but I've been seeing ads for 135-150K on GN Ads website.


----------



## mikeyk07

Thanks Ali, that's quite a jump on the 1 bedroom 

Disappointingly though it's not going to be ready until Dec. 09 hno:

oh well, ill just have to wait before i can have a nice holiday in Dubai !!!!


----------



## Naz UK

120-150K is the current going rate for the top end Marina 1-bed apartments. I'd settle for anything between this range.


----------



## Hishamds

I may have a friend who's going to travel to Dubai in a couple of weeks I'm going to ask him to see what's the real story out there,but I'm not sure if he's going there or not so we can't depend on him.
Alarefi marina project is a part of Alarefi company in Saudi Arabia ,I think bankruptcy would be for the headquarter company in Saudi Arabia before it become Dubai's marina's issue, I hope you understand this point.
by the way Naser99 ,in their email for my brother they didn't mention the 20% interest, besides according to the contract they should pay 1% monthly after three months of the delayed time of handling, and that would be much less than the 20% interest they offer!!! why would they offer 20% when they (according to the contact) can pay 1% ???
isn't that strange?
on the other hand according to what Imre says the construction is in progress !!!
so WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?


----------



## True Blue

bizzybonita said:


> The regions property market is facing the risk of being overstretched
> 
> The regions property market is facing the risk of being overstretched, said an industry official during a recent conference held at Dubai.
> 
> The real estate transactions in Dubai were worth $18billion in 2006, and as per current estimates a staggering $158billion is invested in the property sector of Dubai.
> 
> A survey, conducted by 'The Financial Times' reported that Dubai is 'at the cutting edge' of world property markets, with property values shooting up by 150 percent over the last two years, which is a total contrast to the UK property values, which increased only by 240 percent over the past ten years.
> 
> According to a UAE-based developer, there is a lot of pent-up capital, looking closely at this region, but, returns will be crushed based on escalating costs. Over the past two years, Dubai has witnessed that rents for premium office space has grown more than double, mounting to $1,172 per square meter in few areas. Three years ago, this figure was only about $538.
> 
> The main factor contributing to Dubai's property boom is the ever-increasing population, which is expected to touch 1.9million in 2010. Low-cost property is high in demand, but due to soaring prices of materials, investment in this sector is losing its appeal.
> 
> To add to this, *high construction costs are hindering the progress of many projects,* which is a growing cause of worry among developers and investors, alike. Few *developers are even buying back their own stock, unable to continue construction.*
> 
> A Dubai-based developer has agreed that during the past three months, *there has been a steady increase in the sale of partly finished buildings*.
> 
> *The Managing Director of an international consultancy firm says that the problem in Dubai is that it has plenty of inexperienced developers, who are building too much, too quickly, and it is getting hard to sustain them*.
> 
> R


There has been a lot of talk about bubbles bursting, well here it is. 

It is not a property value decline but a serious problem with developers who now realise they have sold their off plan stock too cheaply and can not fund the completion of their developments due to the rising costs of construction. The only way out now is to find a buyer for the development at a profit for them and return the monies to the original investors, sometimes with a sweetner of interest. The second developer will then relaunch at a much higher price.

Dubai would rather see this approach than allow another Lighthouse, money refunded therefore no one looses in theory.

Watch this space, I see this becoming very regular by 2009.

I can think of a few developers who fall into the category mentioned in the final paragraph.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ You mean Damac I take it, with their Palm Springs fiasco.

A clever developer will not have such problems as they arrange a fixed price with the contractor. Dubai Select did this with the Torch for example.


----------



## True Blue

As the article states, "inexperienced developers" including Damac and DS to name a few. Maybe even Trident, who knows? Time will tell.

A contract sum can be fixed but have allowance to be variable by linking to PRICE INDICIES. I know that sounds like a contradiction but that is what happens in real life. Time is of the essence and prices can not remain fixed without limit of time, or redesign.

In the case of Dubai Select, they are an inexperienced developer and may believe that fixed price means fixed price but what contractor is going to keep working on a job that they are not covering their costs on when there are so many other opportunities out there for them.

I know enough about contracts and claims to know the DS situation is not watertight. There contractor has a schedule to completion on The Torch upto Sept 09, after that date who bears the costs of the increases if there is enough proof that the delays are not down to the contractor?

There will also be extras and omissions from the original tender which the contractor is sure to value at excessive rates. How much contingency is built into the budget?

The high risk developers are those who sell too early and take too long to get going on site while the costs are rising at unprecedented rates and overheads keep eating away at funds.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ The new 6 month maximum before construction starts RERA license rule will help with the last point.

All investors with RERA approved developers are now protected by Escrow, with the exception of Damac who do not offer investors any escrow protection.



> Dubai Select pre-agreed a contract price — around US $191 million (AED700 million) — with DCE at the start of the project. “We’ve guaranteed a maximum price we’re going to pay DCE, and we believe we’re the first to do that in the UAE,” says Mullen. But what happens if the price of steel, for example, shoots up again? Not a problem, according to Menon: “We have arrangements in place if there are substantial price increases,” he says. “Rebar is a potential problem, as we used to source it from a factory, but now we’ve set up our own facility in Jebel Ali, which will go into production in a month’s time.”


----------



## Richard Head

I guess this must be good news for those of us owning completed property. Anything that limits new supply coming to market must logically push up both rents and capital values further.


----------



## Hanna

Richard Head said:


> I guess this must be good news for those of us owning completed property. Anything that limits new supply coming to market must logically push up both rents and capital values further.




I guess you may be right on that one Dick lol :banana:


----------



## zee4you

Krazy said:


> I'm trying to rent out my apartment at Marina Promenade. Any suggestions regarding which agent might be the best to go with?


hey i deal in real estate myself and have tie ups directly with some of the most reliable developers and agents in Dubai.. if you want any help do get in touch with me, maybe i can help you.. [email protected] tel +97150123467.


----------



## Naz UK

So you are an agent, of the agents, who in turn represent developers and owners? That's great. I always love to give my money to people who are at least 5 or 6 loops away in the chain, that way, everyone involved (and their pets) get a share of my hard-earned money, and I, the tenant, in the end pay up to 50% more than I should have, when you count all the lovely agents' commissions.

I'd love to work with you. I could be your agent. Contact me on [email protected]


----------



## jacobdxb

:lol::lol::lol: spot on, naz... :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## abf

*Land Registry*

Hi everyone - any updates from Developers/Land Registry/Owners on registeration of Freehold apartments?


----------



## mackie1964

Naz UK said:


> Contact me on [email protected]


Did you mean [email protected] :dunno:


----------



## Salty

Richard Head said:


> I guess this must be good news for those of us owning completed property. Anything that limits new supply coming to market must logically push up both rents and capital values further.


You've posted my thoughts exactly again Richard. Owning a completed property, especiallly on the PJ, is a GREAT position to be in.

Can't find a smilie for "contented smug bastard."

contentedsmugbastard


----------



## naser99

I know, this is exactly what I'm saying. previously it was 5% then 10% now 20%. I think he's trying to get back the units cheap and sell them for the current market price. I spoke to alareifi office in saudi today demanding his offer on paper but he refused. they say either you accept this offer or risk a legal battle against a bankrupted part. I know some people who have taken his offer and got their money plus 20% so his plan is working. Dubai land asked me to file a complaint and to do that I have to go to their office in Dubai which I can't at the moment but will do so soon.


----------



## Elb

I also got a call from Kuwait office mentioning the same plus the 20% and the bankruptcy thing at the end. I called the Saudi office and got the same thing but only the 10% to 15% and no official letter. they said we sold the building to a company due to our ongoing losses (nothing about bankruptcy) and don't know what the company plans to do with the land.

I am so confused. Shall I take the money or! is the law in Dubai in our favor or! are they saying the truth! are they throwing the bankruptcy term just to scare us! and how can we file a complaint against them when we don't have anything in writing! 

Also I got to know that once you accept. Your check will be ready the next day!!!!!!in Kuwait!!!!!!

Please advise if possible. Thanks


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Yield compression to drive Dubai property prices higher*

Dubai rental yields have remained stubbornly high in recent years at 7% to 10% depending on the property. But in the coming four years it is likely that rentals will flatten while property values will continue to rise, according to a study from Al Mar Capital.

There are many reasons to expect the return for landlords to start falling. For one thing the cost of funds has fallen with recent Fed interest rate cuts, and therefore the cost of capital to acquire property is cheaper. 

This means that landlords can afford to pay higher prices and need a lower return on capital to provide an adequate overall return. Al Mar Capital sees rental yields falling by 2.4% over the next four years. 

At the moment Dubai rental yields are very much out of line with other global cities with comparable GDP, and around double the yields obtainable in traditional hub cities. 

*Ownership levels low*

This reflects the high demand for rental property in Dubai and the lack of availability of completed property for sale, as well as high local mortgage rates. 

But as more real estate is completed and local mortgage rates fall in line with US rates then the pressure to buy rather than rent will begin to impact on rental levels. At the same time there will be more buy-to-let investment and the supply of rental property will increase depressing rents. 

However, what has been happening around the world is that as more investment goes into the buy-to-let market so prices are driven up in the secondary market. In short, landlords are prepared to pay more for less rental income which is called yield compression. 

So it is perfectly possible to envisage a scenario in which rents increase by a slower pace than in recent years in Dubai but property prices soar to new highs. 

*15% house price inflation*

Standard Chartered Bank this week forecast an average growth of 15% in Dubai real estate prices with net new demand for 70,000 residential units and a supply of only 57,000. That could be optimistic, said the report, noting that only a third of the residential units planned for 2007 were actually delivered. 

As the bank comments: ‘There is a concern that the market is overheated, prices are excessively high and an irrational bubble has formed. In contrast, our view is that the market is underpinned by very strong fundamentals.’ 

It is certainly true that the sort of yield compression typically seen in a bubble that is about to burst is just not present in Dubai. Indeed, when landlords are more concerned about capital appreciation than their rents that is usually a signal to be worried. 

We have most recently seen this phenomenon in the explosion of buy-to-let investment in the US and UK which as driven rental yields to historic lows, and are now seeing the consequences. All bubbles will burst but you do need to have a bubble first.


----------



## friendship

I wonder if any body invested after reading the initial posts, the comments were so negative and early warning for potential problems.
I donot know the legal perspective, but people should complaint to master developer EMAAR and also land department.
I think Dubai needs independent classification system for projects which could guide investors.


----------



## jeetha

Not sure what advise to give people. This doesn’t make sense at all. 
1)	Building is rising. 
2)	Contracts been issued to all
3)	Developers will not give nothing in writing
4)	My gut filling is that… who ever is ringing your guys, are the future developers. Must have bought the building with all contracts and cannot sell same apartment twice. 
5) If it was me, I would hang on to it.

Something smell fisheye alright.


----------



## Hishamds

I'll try to make it to Dubai my self next august and see what is going on ,so please every body who's involved into this; please post here every single piece of information that we might find useful in the future.
my current advice to every investor don't accept their offer,cuz the project is in prgress just have some patience.


----------



## glover

got the price list for the North Tower in Dubai Pearl. emirates gulf view apartments are going for AED 3,000 per sqft. Palm view going for AED 3,600 per sqft.

the cheapest 1 bed available is AED 2,893,950 (981 sqft)

looks like new properties in and around the marina are starting minimum AED 2k p/sqft


----------



## karmacalling

*Investment Advise*

This seems to be a good forum to get some advice on Dubai property investment. As a new comer to this market, I would appreciate some feedback on which areas, projects to invest in for best short term returns. Basically interested in studio apartments.

Thanks.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

karmacalling said:


> This seems to be a good forum to get some advice on Dubai property investment. As a new comer to this market, I would appreciate some feedback on which areas, projects to invest in for best short term returns. Basically interested in studio apartments.
> 
> Thanks.


The thread for you is 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=439973&page=9


----------



## karmacalling

Morten_Denmark said:


> The thread for you is
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=439973&page=9


Thanks for the link.


----------



## foxy

glover said:


> got the price list for the North Tower in Dubai Pearl. emirates gulf view apartments are going for AED 3,000 per sqft. Palm view going for AED 3,600 per sqft.
> 
> the cheapest 1 bed available is AED 2,893,950 (981 sqft)
> 
> looks like new properties in and around the marina are starting minimum AED 2k p/sqft


Glover

Am I right in thinking there are still a lot of Marina resales under AED 2K p/sqft?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

You can get a 2 bed resale starting from around AED 1400 psf in the marina. 1 beds are more expensive psf, studios even more expensive psf.


----------



## smussuw

I know a guy working in Dubai Properties who said the building cost AED 210 psf only. He didn't specify the time or the project though.


----------



## foxy

Dubai_Steve said:


> You can get a 2 bed resale starting from around AED 1400 psf in the marina. 1 beds are more expensive psf, studios even more expensive psf.


Thanks Steve

Pity we can't see sales transactions to get an accurate feel for the market.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

smussuw said:


> I know a guy working in Dubai Properties who said the building cost AED 210 psf only. He didn't specify the time or the project though.


When did he say that, in 1998 ?


----------



## Sady

Thats what I suspected initially. I guess he is trying to get the apartment back and will sell it at a much higher price later. If he is going bankrupcy then why is he offering the money back with interest?hmmm
Surely another company would have gone bankrupt without giving the money back?

Good Luck guys


----------



## True Blue

^^ That may have been true for JBR, that I could believe.

Today a very large portion of the value and cost of construction is the plot. As you have pointed out before a good marina plot is around $50million and a very good one much more.

In the BMG links I also noticed that the plots they bought were 100% mortgaged at 20% interest. So if the development takes 4 years to complete from plot purchase date then the true cost would be double (20% compounded). On that basis the cost to the project could be as high as $100million. This is probably why DS and Damac launch so early to keep interest charges at bay.


----------



## smussuw

Dubai_Steve said:


> When did he say that, in 1998 ?


Well, Dubai Properties wasn't there at that time. 

He is an Emirati architect so he would have been promoted if he was there long time ago. Anyway I had the impression that it was so recent.

The discussion wasn't about the spf prices. It was about two companies trying to win contracts from Dubai Properties. One of them got 30% of the project for 230 psf while the other one said that it will offer 210 psf if it was given the whole project.

Anyway all the indicators say from a way or another that they are getting fortunes from those projects. There is a reason why they get billions in profit !!!


----------



## Wannaberich

Sander- said:


> This sounds awesome. Do you have any sources we could look at?



I dont.Was told by manager of a dubai real estate company who has sources within Microsoft dubai.


----------



## High Times

*Market outlook for 2008/09 ?*

I have said this before but I think that prices are being falsely inflated by developers and speculators at the moment and as a result we are entering dangerous territory.

As Steve rightly says you can get completed 2 bed re-sales for around AED 1300-1400 psf. 3 beds for around the same price psf. I think these are more towards the lower rise end of the marina to be fair. Prices nearer to Phase 1, and the Tallest block are closer to AED 2000 psf for completed units. 
Info from the usual suspects (go wealthy, betterhomes etc).

Developers are now having to release new developments at silly prices (AED 2000-3000 psf) due to escalating construction costs and inflationary pressures of the UAE fiscal policy being linked to the declining Dollar. 

Recent launches/re-launches

Botanica 1600 psf
Infinity (re-releases)	1800 psf
Dubai Promenade 3000 psf
New Towers on Emaar plots	???? psf

Also delays are becoming longer and more acceptable and so project delivery is much further down the road than it was maybe 2-3 years ago, so developers are factoring in future price increases and setting prices higher now to accommodate for this. Where developers have failed to do this they are even buying back units to re-sell at higher prices, (nothing short of robbery when this happens). Basically the developer is saying to it’s client, _“hey you take the risk, if it goes wrong you loose, if it goes right we win”._

The worrying thing is that speculators are swallowing these price hikes and continuing to snap up off plan projects at the 2000 – 3000 range knowing that it is unlikely they will take delivery within 3-4 years, (and that’s if delays don’t get worse). Add the cost of financing and the psf goes even higher.

*“A fool and is money are easily parted”*

This in my opinion is distorting the market as it is preventing the end user from joining the market on mass. There is a distinct difference emerging in pricing at the moment between completed/almost completed property, and off plan launches. 

Historically in any property market completed property is more expensive to buy than an off plan launch. The reverse is now beginning to happen in Dubai. The demand seems to be for off plan property as completed units are being held back from the market by owners who are prepared to sit on units, and rental demand is high.

When the cranes have all left the Marina, (which is the area my figures are centred on). Do you think price comparisons between projects will be influenced by when they were completed ?

I don’t. This doesn’t happen in any other city in the world, so why Dubai ?

What I mean is will Marina Heights (completed in 2006) be worth less than the tower that will end up next to it (completed in 2012) just because of when it was built?

If you ask yourself where we are headed, I think you can come to one of these conclusions.


1-	Property prices in Dubai will continue to increase at scary levels for the foreseeable future (3-5 years). – Developers and Speculators theory.

2-	Off plan launches are not good value for money and people are now paying way over the odds for new launches. Cynics theory.

3-	Speculators will soon begin to leave the market, developers will not be able to sell at high levels and wont be able to reduce prices either as costs (land, construction, finance, escrow, inflation are all too high). So developers leave the market too. This results in completed property becoming the commodity in demand, which is where we should be.

My summary is anyone who as paid circa AED 1000 or less and can see completion within 2-3 years is onto a winner as I would guess 100% return in that timeframe.

Anyone looking to invest now should think very hard before they agree to buy anything, especially if they are looking to pay AED 2000 or more for a 4-5year wait.

I have based these statements on property in and around the Marina as that is the area of interest for me.

I Would be interested to hear other peoples views on this subject.

Cheers.


----------



## glover

not sure about Dubai, but i am building a small one-story villa in RAK at a cost of AED 160 psf (excluding land cost). i signed the contract almost 6 months ago, so i am sure it is more expensive now, maybe 20% more or so. but in general, construction in the UAE is a lot cheaper than developed countries mainly due to the cheap labor!


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> If you ask yourself where we are headed, I think you can come to one of these conclusions.
> 
> 1-	Property prices in Dubai will continue to increase at scary levels for the foreseeable future (3-5 years). – Developers and Speculators theory.
> 
> 2-	Off plan launches are not good value for money and people are now paying way over the odds for new launches. Cynics theory.
> 
> 3-	Speculators will soon begin to leave the market, developers will not be able to sell at high levels and wont be able to reduce prices either as costs (land, construction, finance, escrow, inflation are all too high). So developers leave the market too. This results in completed property becoming the commodity in demand, which is where we should be.


Very nice analysis *High Times*, keep it up.

Completed or near completion property esp. at good locations will be becoming the commodity in demand, which is where one should be. 

However, I would like to add that this would be true for small developers that are selling expensive units at seconadary locations. The big developers like Emaar, Nakheel, DP, etc selling at prime locations (Burj, Palm, Dubai Promenade, BB, etc) will continue to be able to sell at high prices, IMO.

Many buy off-plan at higher prices because they dont have good knowledge of the market, buy at property shows abroad, play in the hands of real estate brokers promoting off-plan for their commisions or simply because the option of paying in installments over 3-5 years sounds very attractive. 

:2cents:


----------



## IISinbadII

glover said:


> not sure about Dubai, but i am building a small one-story villa in RAK at a cost of AED 160 psf (excluding land cost). i signed the contract almost 6 months ago, so i am sure it is more expensive now, maybe 20% more or so. but in general, construction in the UAE is a lot cheaper than developed countries mainly due to the cheap labor!



*التهاني على انتخابكم البيت الجديد*


----------



## Salameer

High Times said:


> I have said this before but I think that prices are being falsely inflated by developers and speculators at the moment and as a result we are entering dangerous territory.


I'm totally with you on this HT. 

Also, the rest of your article is spot on.

Today, you'll will have seen headings and a lengthy article about Abu-Dhabi ready to go up 25%. Wow! Let's all jump in!

People who are making money in Dubai these days are those who can buy in bulk and flip with a small uplift. IMHO, those buying 800sf and above apartments at 2000AED today will not be able to flip at a profit anytime soon, when all costs are taken into consideration. Those buying and holding to completion for income will also discover that the yield isn't that great after all costs are taken into consideration. 
So, buyer beware! Don't get sucked into the hype. The impression maybe that it is a seller market but I disagree. Developers and flippers are desperate to sell. So, why not do a bit of negotiating. I managed to do just that over 6 months ago! 

Also, my advise would be to not invest in speculative islands. Go for projects about to start or already started. Take a chance with a smaller developer but make sure you have done your homework on them.
:cheers:


----------



## diveksa

*Number 4*

High Times thank you for your analysis. Would you please consider the following? 

1. New developments come with marketing campaigns which cover overseas countries. New buyer - new to Dubai market- does not do a good research before they buy which make you think new buyer will not get a high return from new and expensive off-plan development.

2. Real estate companies like to deal with new development because they focus on one project.

3. Before the Escrow account, developers used to benefit from the cash. Now they need to find alternatives which are increasing their margin and market the project on phases.

4. Projects sold at AED1000 - two or three years ago- will benefit from the cost increase in land, construction and Dubai reputation in the market, but they need to wait for some time to realize that gain. 

5. The gap between the new developments and ready or under construction developments will disappear soon and old development owners will benefit if they wait for their unit to appreciate to the new market prices. 


Can we add item number 4 to your list after considering the above?


----------



## IISinbadII

diveksa said:


> 2. Real estate companies like to deal with new development because they focus on one project.


Or maybe their bosses own a few floors that they bought at pre-pre-launch prices and now want to off-load at 100% profit.


----------



## mackie1964

*Something else to consider*

While over 85% of the market remain cash buyers and no questions asked (money laundering...etc), you will always find people to buy at the new inflated prices. :cheers:

Sorry for the short note.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

It is very true that resales seem too cheap compared to the new launches - or new launches is too expensive - whatever. But it seems to me that the cheaper resales are being sold right now - eg - right now it is difficult to find a 2-bed JBR apartment (low floor - bad view) for under 2 mio. Two months ago there were plenty - now a handfull.


----------



## True Blue

^^ I have noticed this also Morten. The recent launches around the marina at 2000+ ft2 has resulted in a clean sweep of the unsold stock and resales.

Now that confidence in Dubai plc is at a high many people keep asking where are the best buys and they're are few now. Not long ago my advice to DS investors was get out, now it's changing to stick around as there is nothing else out there which is a bargain buy.

As for which end of the marina is best, anyone who pays a premium to be near the tallest block and phase 1 is throwing money away in my opinion.


----------



## foxy

When you factor in the weak dollar, the high yields and comparison with other international cities, Dubai at AED 2K per/sf isn't that pricey at the moment.

The gap between completed/in progress properties and the new off-plan is interesting. Its the wrong way around. So my guess (and only an opinion) is that the properties under construction and the ready built will catch up

The other thing to note is that when the tech bubble collapsed the central banks created liquidity... just as they are doing now with the financial crisis. The extra money in the system has to go somewhere. Prices of international assets will go up.


----------



## foxy

True Blue said:


> ^^ I have noticed this also Morten. The recent launches around the marina at 2000+ ft2 has resulted in a clean sweep of the unsold stock and resales.
> 
> Now that confidence in Dubai plc is at a high many people keep asking where are the best buys and they're are few now. Not long ago my advice to DS investors was get out, now it's changing to stick around as there is nothing else out there which is a bargain buy.
> 
> As for which end of the marina is best, anyone who pays a premium to be near the tallest block and phase 1 is throwing money away in my opinion.


So you have gone from a SELL to HOLD. Things are looking up.. just like The Torch :banana:


----------



## True Blue

foxy said:


> So you have gone from a SELL to HOLD. Things are looking up.. just like The Torch :banana:


As painfull as it may seem, but still not a BUY rating for me.

Rangers will have won the league another 3 times before DS hand over keys for anything. Oops, there I go with the wild speculation again, just cos we beat Celtic again today does not automatically mean we will win the League
 :cheers:  :cheers2:  ----- .... 
^^ Rangers fans ....... .... ^^ Celtic fans


----------



## Morten_Denmark

True Blue said:


> ^^ I have noticed this also Morten. The recent launches around the marina at 2000+ ft2 has resulted in a clean sweep of the unsold stock and resales.
> 
> Now that confidence in Dubai plc is at a high many people keep asking where are the best buys and they're are few now. Not long ago my advice to DS investors was get out, now it's changing to stick around as there is nothing else out there which is a bargain buy.
> 
> As for which end of the marina is best, anyone who pays a premium to be near the tallest block and phase 1 is throwing money away in my opinion.


Same story regarding rents - I see no cooling down yet. Each dot here represent an average value of all offers the respective day. Stats cover between 40 to 20 units. We are looking at 20% increase in rentals regarding JBR 2-beds.


----------



## Hishamds

I SUGGEST for everyone who received an email from that Alarefi Co. to quote and paste those emails here to make a comparison between two things:
1-their offer.
2-the reason why they returning the money back or why they stopped the project.
so we can figure out what is going on.
you don't have to put your real names or any personal details about your selves.
just put the main subject.
i'll try to post my brother's message ASAP.

please everyone share us


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai Properties To launch 50.000 low budget homes 

A top official of Dubai Properties yesterday revealed the launch of 50,000 low-budget homes during the coming years, to meet the growing housing problem among the emirate's middle-income groups.

These affordable housing units will be a true mix of freehold and rental units, announced Mohammad Bin Braik, Chief Executive, Dubai Property Group.

"Although we are involved mainly in built-to-sell business, rental units give a continuous flow of guaranteed returns and provide necessary stability. We are not only building assets, but also building values for Dubai," said Bin Braik.

Dubai Properties has already built a sizeable housing project in Al Quoz area, which will soon be open for rent, he said, but is yet to elaborate on his plans for various housing schemes.

This seems to be good news for the 1.44 million population of the emirate, large numbers of who, stay in Ajman and Sharjah seeking cheaper alternatives, as most of the current projects cater only to high-income groups, leading to imbalance in the emirate's housing market.

House rent and increasing population continues to dominate the list of worries in Dubai, which has prompted the government to cap rents during recent years. A sudden growth in freehold market since 2002, led major developers to shift their focus from rental market to freehold sector. On the other hand demand continued to soar, pushing rents sky-high.

In the meanwhile, large numbers of government-built colonies and low-cost housings were demolished, reducing housing options for the middle-income and low-income groups.
Nakheel, a government-owned developer, has set up 'International City', considered as affordable housing.

According to a top property broker, the high rents at prevailing currently, are good enough to prompt developers to return to rental market, once the income rises up to the same level as that of freehold market.


R


----------



## High Times

Morten,

Interesting stats, can i ask where you got the information from ?

Cheers


----------



## Morten_Denmark

High Times said:


> Morten,
> 
> Interesting stats, can i ask where you got the information from ?
> 
> Cheers


HighTimes

These figures are only from BetterHomes - I have much more stats from other forums supporting these figures - but to make them comparable (in level) I have only shown you the stats from BetterHomes as the fees here are the same. Including all stats the graph looks even more dramatical. My experience with BH is that these units are for real (comparing to other forums only) and being updated.

I have also stats from actually sales in JBR. The scatter are much more pronounced here - but the trend are even more dramatical than the "rent" graph. In some cases - when the unit was removed - I contacted the real estate agencies to hear if this relevant unit was for real and in 9 out of 10 cases I was told that the unit was sold. The selling time for cheap units seem to be 3 weeks - the average units the selling time can be quite high - 3 months - the exclusive units can be sold surpricing quick.

I guess this could be verified by real estate people - but the problem is that not really many of us trust them.


----------



## foxy

^^ Morten, can you define cheap, average and exclusive.

I imagine the 3 month sales are ones where the seller has priced high and is waiting for the market to catch up.. or is it that there isn't a high volume of buyers out there?


----------



## bizzybonita

Office rents could surge 60% in '08










Monday, 31 March 2008

A massive undersupply in Dubai office space could see rental prices surge as much as 60% this year as demand for commercial property increases across the emirate, according to property portal Gowealthy.

Gowealthy estimated the amount of real estate available for office and commercial activities would need to increase by 325% to meet demand this year, UAE daily Emirates Business 24/7 reported on Monday.

Peter Penhall, CEO of Gowealthy, said the increase in commercial leasing costs was based on simple supply and demandCurrently the city has 1.72 million square feet of commercial space, but another 7.29 million square feet is needed to keep up with demand. Costs will escalate due to the shortage of office space,” Penhall said.

Leasing charges are the highest in the Sheikh Zayed Road area at $304 per square metre, followed by Dubai Media City at $188 per square metre, he said.

Another factor pushing up lease prices is the booming revenues and profits of large companies in the region, meaning firms can afford to pay inflated rental prices.

“Most primary buyers have the capacity and cash flows to cope with rising costs but this may put pressure on small and medium-size businesses,” said Penhall.

Asteco Property Management said last month Dubai now commanded one of the highest global rental yields for commercial premises, ranging from 17-18%.

Research by Asteco found office space rents increased by about 5% on average over the last quarter, with Sheikh Zayed Road and Oud Metha seeing surges of 6% and 12% respectively.

John Allen, director of Asteco, said Dubai office rentals increased 44% from 2006, with occupancy rates continuing to hover between 97-99%.

Commercial units would also witness another price surge as these buildings near completion in 2008, he said.

Construction delays were likely to create shortfall of approximately 18 million square feet of office space supply in 2009, with 29% of supply expected to come from the Business Bay development, he added. 

R


----------



## AITU

^^There is something not quite right with the numbers in this article;

$304 per sq meter equates to about AED100 per sq foot. My understanding about current SZR lease rates is that they are nearer AED300 per sq foot?


----------



## Opus 2009

^^

I agree, and in the Difc village the rents are Dhs 500 per sq foot, and even at that they are fully booked and have a huge waiting list.


----------



## Salameer

Source: Asteco Property Management
*Numbers are based on average prices in selected districts, for similar office types, and are subject to change.

Dubai Office Rental Rates (AED/ sq.ft.)

Locations................Q4 2006...............Q4 2007
Sheikh Zayed Road.....240......................380
Bur Dubai..................225......................290
Deira........................200......................260
Oud Metha................200......................280
Karama.....................175......................278
Tecom......................200......................290


----------



## Hishamds

True Blue said:


> Can someone confirm that CRC are the contractor here and are they still working onsite?


thank you True Blue but it seems like that the main subject has been drifted away....a little bit
we need a confirmation please


----------



## dubaiquote

A general terms when you sell a property bought pre-launch , who should be paying the 2.5% developers fee , is it you the person who still owns the property or the new owner?

I have sold one before where I paid it , but have seen adverts on the net where the person selling it says the buyer must pay it

Hope it makes sense


----------



## lovedubai

The buyer normally pays, but if you sell through the certain developers and their agency you pay a fee as welll. (In other words I paid the developer too.)


----------



## dubai_pearl

*Crack starting to appear in Dubai?*

I saw this artical in Dubai marina thread. I just wonder whether this is a beginning of cracks emerging in Dubai real estates?

Work on a luxury 35 storey residential tower at the prestigious Dubai Marina has been halted.

Major Saudi Arabian developer, Alareifi, has pulled the plug on its 379-apartment project which is midway through construction.

Investors in the property are being told Alareifi cannot complete the project.

The Alareifi Marina is a unique development in Dubai in that whilst with other projects, off-the-plan buyers pay instalments in accordance with the staging of construction, Alareifi buyers have been paying the full price of the apartments upfront. In return for this they have received discounted prices.

Dubai authorities in recent months have stepped in to regulate off-the-plan instalment payments by insisting developers open escrow accounts and deposit all funds into those accounts. The developers are then only permitted to draw on those funds for authorised construction works.

The Alareifi sales however, marketed through Khalid S. Al-areifi & Partner Real Estate, were all completed prior to this new regulation. The company is offering to reimburse buyers with their outlays, however many of these date back four years. The company has been plagued by delays to the commencement of construction, during which time development costs, particularly those relating to material, but also to labour, have escalated.

The availability of contractors, project managers, and resources, such as cranes, has also been heavily strained.

Almost all projects in Dubai are running well behind schedule, in some cases by a number of years.

Some developers have sold complete developments off the plan but have delayed commencing construction. Several projects such as the Wind Towers at Jumeirah Lakes, and Damac's Palm Springs project at Jebel Ali Palm, which were sold to investors more than four years ago, have yet to commence construction.

Emaar's Marina Quays project is more than a year behind schedule, during which time it has completed six new towers in a nearby Marina location.

Buyers who have planned to reside or rent their apartments in some cases have been waiting years. While developers are earning interest on their customer's funds, the customers are paying interest on loans, exasperating their problem.

The Alareifi tower was expected to be completed mid-this year, now it is unlikely to be finished at all.

Buyers in the development, most having forked out for their investment in 2004, can now just dream of what could have been. For inspiration they could go to the company's Web site which is still promoting the property.

'Designed with cosmopolitan freshness and flair, Alareifi offers stunning views that extend across the marina all the way to the sea,' says the site. 'Everything you desire can be found right here, from a state-of the-art fitness spa to swimming pools, food courts, cafe's, children's play areas, walkways, 4 floors of parking and more.'


----------



## IISinbadII

dubaiquote said:


> A general terms when you sell a property bought pre-launch , who should be paying the 2.5% developers fee , is it you the person who still owns the property or the new owner?
> 
> I have sold one before where I paid it , but have seen adverts on the net where the person selling it says the buyer must pay it
> 
> Hope it makes sense


I dont think there is any fixed rule. It all depends on negociations and terms agreed b/w the buyer and seller. You will see adds saying "_net to owner_" which would mean that the quoted amount will go to the owner (and developer if any installment is left), and buyer will have to pay developers transfer fee and agent commision, etc. On the other hand some adds say "_all-in_" which would mean seller will pay developers transfer fee and agent commision, etc. 

Also at times other fees are involved.
-If there is a bank loan, there are bank charges to payoff the loan.
-Pending late fees, interest and other charges payable to the developer.
-Sometimes there is a secondary owner of the whole building and you have to pay extra % to this owner every time a unit is sold. 
-Land registration fee (to Land department).


----------



## rexdmx

apradhan said:


> I saw this artical in Dubai marina thread. I just wonder whether this is a beginning of cracks emerging in Dubai real estates?
> 
> Work on a luxury 35 storey residential tower at the prestigious Dubai Marina has been halted.
> 
> Major Saudi Arabian developer, Alareifi, has pulled the plug on its 379-apartment project which is midway through construction.
> 
> Investors in the property are being told Alareifi cannot complete the project.
> 
> The Alareifi Marina is a unique development in Dubai in that whilst with other projects, off-the-plan buyers pay instalments in accordance with the staging of construction, Alareifi buyers have been paying the full price of the apartments upfront. In return for this they have received discounted prices.
> 
> Dubai authorities in recent months have stepped in to regulate off-the-plan instalment payments by insisting developers open escrow accounts and deposit all funds into those accounts. The developers are then only permitted to draw on those funds for authorised construction works.
> 
> The Alareifi sales however, marketed through Khalid S. Al-areifi & Partner Real Estate, were all completed prior to this new regulation. The company is offering to reimburse buyers with their outlays, however many of these date back four years. The company has been plagued by delays to the commencement of construction, during which time development costs, particularly those relating to material, but also to labour, have escalated.
> 
> The availability of contractors, project managers, and resources, such as cranes, has also been heavily strained.
> 
> Almost all projects in Dubai are running well behind schedule, in some cases by a number of years.
> 
> Some developers have sold complete developments off the plan but have delayed commencing construction. Several projects such as the Wind Towers at Jumeirah Lakes, and Damac's Palm Springs project at Jebel Ali Palm, which were sold to investors more than four years ago, have yet to commence construction.
> 
> Emaar's Marina Quays project is more than a year behind schedule, during which time it has completed six new towers in a nearby Marina location.
> 
> Buyers who have planned to reside or rent their apartments in some cases have been waiting years. While developers are earning interest on their customer's funds, the customers are paying interest on loans, exasperating their problem.
> 
> The Alareifi tower was expected to be completed mid-this year, now it is unlikely to be finished at all.
> 
> Buyers in the development, most having forked out for their investment in 2004, can now just dream of what could have been. For inspiration they could go to the company's Web site which is still promoting the property.
> 
> 'Designed with cosmopolitan freshness and flair, Alareifi offers stunning views that extend across the marina all the way to the sea,' says the site. 'Everything you desire can be found right here, from a state-of the-art fitness spa to swimming pools, food courts, cafe's, children's play areas, walkways, 4 floors of parking and more.'


heard about this...terrible


----------



## montranieri

My english is not so good, yes 
Sorry if somebody felt insulted by my words. I do not want to open a religion discussion.
My point it is always the same and no matter if the person is Christian, Muslim,Hindu, buddist or whatever. The mosque was the most appropiate in this case.
Definetely I will avoid to mention any religion from now on.
But the reaction I had from somebody is honestly questionable.



nasim50 said:


> Well another project bites the dust.......
> 
> Oh and to Montranieri and his comment on islamic ways.......... go **** yourself you infidel.
> 
> If you don't have anything sensible to say......don't say it.......... you PRICK.


----------



## abf

*Land Registration/June Deadline*

Any observations on this - Has anyone heard from Developers for registration of title deed of completed units that have been handed over? As the fees are to be charged at the market rate rather than the purchase price the land registry should now be under heavy pressure.
Is this going to reflect on the prices as sellers/buyers would want to take advantage?
If I have missed some comments kindly repost. Many thanks


----------



## DubaiDream

*UAE rent pressure on inflation to ease in '08 -cbank*

UAE rent pressure on inflation to ease in '08 -cbank Wed 2 Apr, 2008 Reuters 

By Ola Galal

SANAA (Reuters) – Additional housing supply later this year in the United Arab Emirates should ease soaring rents and near-record inflation, the central bank governor said on Wednesday.

Lower inflation could ease pressure on the world’s fifth-largest oil producer to revalue its currency against the tumbling dollar or even to drop the peg to the U.S. currency altogether.

Inflation hit a 19-year high of 9.3 percent in 2006 and probably accelerated to more than 10 percent last year.

“Rent pressures will subside in 2008,” the governor, Sultan Nasser al-Suweidi, told Reuters on the sidelines of a meeting of Arab government finance officials in the Yemeni capital, Sanaa.

“Many units will come in the market and supply will increase … the reason for inflation will not be there when more units become available,” Suweidi said.

The UAE, like Qatar and Saudi Arabia, has been under pressure to drop its peg and perhaps follow Kuwait in linking to a basket of currencies to offset the effect of more costly imports from Europe and other countries on domestic inflation.

Suweidi said in November he was under social and business pressure to drop the peg in favour of a basket. Against the euro, the dollar has lost 8.3 percent from its strongest point this year on Jan. 23.

“There is no need for currency reform now,” Suweidi said in Sanaa. “This is the situation of currencies by nature of their name and structure; they go up and down.”

The UAE Minister of State for Finance will face questions next week from the country’s advisory council on the currency’s peg to the declining dollar, the state’s Emirates News Agency (WAM) reported.

Ubaid al-Tayer will answer questions at a meeting on April 8 with the Federal National Council (FNC), WAM reported late on Tuesday. The FNC’s 40 members advise the government of the UAE federation but have no legislative powers.

Dubai ruler and UAE Prime Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum said on Tuesday a committee was studying the country’s peg to the dollar, although it would be retained for now. [ID:nL01742095]

The committee was looking at the “benefits of staying with the peg or not”, Sheikh Mohammed said. [nL02332474] {

Gulf Arab central bank governors meet in the Qatari capital, Doha, on Sunday to discuss ways of creating a single currency, ostensibly by a Jan. 1, 2010 deadline. (Writing by James Cordahi and Daliah Merzaban; Editing by Gerrard Raven)


----------



## NeilP

abf said:


> Any observations on this - Has anyone heard from Developers for registration of title deed of completed units that have been handed over? As the fees are to be charged at the market rate rather than the purchase price the land registry should now be under heavy pressure.
> Is this going to reflect on the prices as sellers/buyers would want to take advantage?
> If I have missed some comments kindly repost. Many thanks


Spoke to our Developer today. They are dealing with Land Registration. Paperwork should take another month or so. Completed in November. They are doing a building at a time. Ours is Marina Diamond 4. There is no cost.


----------



## abf

NeilP said:


> Spoke to our Developer today. They are dealing with Land Registration. Paperwork should take another month or so. Completed in November. They are doing a building at a time. Ours is Marina Diamond 4. There is no cost.


Thanks NeilP. Do you have any idea of what this will mean re projects in JLT and some in Marina which were to be handed over last year but have been delayed to July/Aug


----------



## yasir_hilali

I have clearly stated in an earlier thread, that Alarieifi tower is still under construction, because it's under another owner. If you have invested in it, don't just argue on the forum and waste other people's time, although this site have proven to be very helpful.

You are strongly, advised to approach Dubai Land Department to lodge a complaint at your earliest. We don't know what's the outcome will be, but they are the body that legislates property laws in dubai and are welcoming our enquires.

Al-Arieifi Kalid and Abdullah are scam, they are genuinely corrupt, but still owners may be able to sue them in Dubai or Saudi because they still have investment in Dubai and certainly back in their country.

A number of owners have already talked to law firms in Dubai to secure their rights (or what's left of it). Those who are still arguing in this thread about whether it is sold or not, whether the law allows or not, please pick up the phone and call Dubai Land Department to verify all by yourself, as such speculations here are confusing some people.

I truly appreciate those who wrote negatively about this tower in the first few posts, I wish I've knew about this forum back then to run from Alarifie like the plague he is. Whatever you posted then have formalized within two years to be true.


----------



## Imre

Burj Park V

launch: 5th April


----------



## Imre

no idea about the price , just guess around 3500 dhs/sqft


----------



## Dubai_Steve

UAE Central Bank Governor Sultan Nasser Al Suwaidi said rent prices in the country will dip later in 2008 as more units come into the market and supply increases, reported Gulf News. He said the increased housing supply will also help ease inflation.


----------



## cheath

Has anyone any idea on what I should be paying AED sq.ft. for completed villas at either Meadows or Springs?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yes sod the kitchen extension, buy a disposable barbecue kit and throw a party to keep her happy and invest in Al Marjan. :runaway:


----------



## karar

hi to all
can some one advice me on this pls
i've been offered astudio apartment on the la hoya bay regency view on level 1. the price:542.000AED total area 563sqft/ is it agood offer?and good location?
many thanx


----------



## Monument

karar said:


> hi to all
> can some one advice me on this pls
> i've been offered astudio apartment on the la hoya bay regency view on level 1. the price:542.000AED total area 563sqft/ is it agood offer?and good location?
> many thanx


There is a La Hoya Bay thread - see http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=405695

Probably fair value. at AED542k


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai_Steve said:


> I agree with Morris, mackie has not even been to RAK.
> 
> Also disagree with mackie about SP/SG, I think they will be one of the most successful developers.


I have actually been once and it took us 1.5 hours not 45 minutes. 

DS/SG will let us all down again like they have many times so far. Do you want me to list a few of their lies? It would take a few pages. hno:


----------



## Morrismarina

In terms of distance when I went the other week we left Dubai Marina at 9.00am and it took us 75 minutes along the Emirtates Road to get to the Al Marjan Island site. Not too bad IMO. :cheers:


----------



## Hishamds

thanks sunrise,I hope they just continue building with their full speed and without delays this time,let's hope and pray that everything goes fine with the project. inshallah


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ smussuw, this guy needs a speeding ticket :lol:


----------



## Elb

The guy I talked to in Dubai Land was Mr. Emad Eldeen Farouq (Legal Consultant in Dubai Land) he is the one who told me to send a complaint and gave me all the info. his email is - [email protected] -. Not sure though about the nationality of ISKAN

I think my next move is to visit the site in Dubai and consult/hire a lawyer (they are not cheap in UAE)

Thanks


----------



## bizzybonita

Middle East real estate developers urged to build green malls

10-Apr-2008 




Socially responsible retailing and sustainable ‘green’ stores and malls are emerging global trends which Middle East real estate developers cannot ignore says organisers of Retail City 2008 Dubai.

The fast growing Arabian Gulf economies continue to develop ambitious retail infrastructure projects. Retail City, which takes place from 1-3 June 2008 at the Dubai International Exhibition Centre, will bring together global retailers, investors, shopping centre developers, franchise networks, shopping centre management, architects and regional authorities to focus on all aspects of the retail development cycle.

“The Middle East retail sector is currently worth in excess of $100 billion annually and is second only to residential property in the non-oil economy. It is all the more important then that this hugely vital economic sector takes on board the impact it has on the environment and the need for sustainability in both design and construction of stores and malls." said Naomi Koningen, Project Manager of Retail City 2008, organised by IIR Middle East.

r


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai - Commercial space and long-term appeal 

Dubai: The commercial market continues to remain popular with investors in Dubai. There is currently a great range of developments from which to choose and the high levels of capital growth that are being achieved, particularly when purchasing at pre-launch, is keeping activity high in this market 

Compounding this is the current under supply of commercial space available for rent and with vacancy rates of around 1 per cent in the office sector this activity is certain to continue, particularly for projects nearing completion.

Although at present, this demand versus supply imbalance helps fill commercial developments, as the imbalance gradually lessens, there are likely to be numerous Unique Selling Points (USPs) that will help give one project an edge over others. 

USPs that help improve the functionality of a building should be given consideration by developers at the planning stage to ensure the long-term success and appeal of a project, rather than simply focusing on short-term gains for investors. 

When it comes to selecting business premises, two key considerations should always be location and convenient access. As additional stock becomes available, tenants are likely to become more selective and other prevailing factors will come into play. The wishlist may include: car parking, floor plates, building management, health and safety, elevator speeds and retail offering.

As a starting point, all developments should provide ample parking. I doubt that I am alone in my frustrations when searching for that elusive parking space around this city! It is concerning to think that some of the new developments under construction will not provide a sufficient level of car parking to accommodate the building at capacity.

Side-effects

Secondly, a side effect of creating a unique design and elevation for a tower, is the varied shapes and sizes of the floor plates. From a tenant's point of view, where optimum usage of the floor space and an easily divisible plate is critical, current plates do not always provide for this. This issue raises the need for developers to move their focus from the current "outside- in" trend to more of an "inside-out" client focused strategy. 

There is no doubt that a recently completed project looks fabulous when it is all shiny and new but unfortunately, this pristine appearance doesn't last indefinitely and only professional management of the building can help maintain these high standards. From the outset, to ensure the long-term upkeep of a building and therefore it's attractiveness to tenants, it is necessary to recruit a team of professionals to manage maintenance and operational issues in relation to both the building and its tenants.

Additionally, health, safety and environmental standards, which are a pre-requisite for developments in many developed real estate markets, should begin to take on a more pivotal role here. The need for a greater emphasis on health and safety speaks for itself and we are now also seeing an increased sensitivity towards environmental issues with more energy efficient developments in the pipeline. 

Finally, retail, often the first portion of a development to sell; has the ability to totally set the tone of a building. The presence of strong mix of branded retail outlets can significantly raise the profile and awareness of a tower, thus attracting a similar profile of commercial tenants. 

So.... while at the moment, when it comes to finding office space, beggars can't be choosers and firms need to take whatever is available, in time they may have greater options and those developments that best cater to the end users' needs will prevail. 


R


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai office space expected to grow 250% in 3 years 

Office space in Dubai is expected to grow by 250 per cent within three years to 110 million square feet, a leading property services firm said.

At present the city has 32 million square feet of office space and almost all of it is occupied, resulting in high rents as growing working population puts more pressure on the available properties.

"Unprecedented amount of ongoing construction activity will create new supply of 80 million square feet between 2008 and 2011," said Nicholas Maclean, managing director of CB Richard Ellis in the Middle East. However, not all buildings under construction meet international office space standards and pressure on prime office locations may continue. 

"Only a limited proportion of new supply will meet the needs and requirements of multinational companies," Maclean said. 

Shaikh Zayed Road and the Dubai International Financial Centre are the most expensive business locations in the city, followed by Dubai Festival City.

A correction at all rental levels is expected as new supply of offices becomes available.

Dubai faces a shortage of both residential and commercial space.

Based on the number of residence visas issued, the city's population of 1.67 million is growing by 300,000 a year. If this pace continues, the population is projected to grow to 4.1 million by 2015.

If construction delays are "at a minimal," 170,000 new residential units will be available between 2008 and 2010, according to CB Richard Ellis.

The demand for residential units is estimated at 70,000 per year against a delivery of 57,000 units.

Maclean said Dubai's property sector growth is sustainable if economic growth continues and expatriate numbers continue to rise at current levels.

But competition from construction within the region and slow infrastructure growth could undermine the city's property sector, he added.

R


----------



## theMasters

*purchase price*

Hi,

I have a question regarding the contract purchase price.
I recently purchased a resale in Marina direct from the developer (Cayan). The premium was about 35% from the launch price. 
The contract though has the original price without the premium. Is this normal practice? Shouldn't the contract list the price plus the premium which would be the total price I will end up paying.
What are my options.

Thanks.


----------



## Smokeey

Hi guys, which do you think would the better long-term investment (3yrs +) out of commercial or residential property? I would love to buy something in Business Bay but cant decide if I should go for office space or an apartment. My plan would be to buy something off-plan and keep it for 2-3 yrs minimum and then maybe sell it either just before completion (or possibly just after completion) but I'm not sure which would be best for that sort of thing. 

Also are there any major differences in the ownership laws for commercial and residential property? (E.g. are there any restrictions on renting/selling commercial property etc)

Thanks in advance!


----------



## rexdmx

theMasters said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a question regarding the contract purchase price.
> I recently purchased a resale in Marina direct from the developer (Cayan). The premium was about 35% from the launch price.
> The contract though has the original price without the premium. Is this normal practice? Shouldn't the contract list the price plus the premium which would be the total price I will end up paying.
> What are my options.
> 
> Thanks.



not really, it happens a lot for properties when they are not ready....


----------



## glover

*Housing Woes in U.S. Spread Around Globe*

_this has to effect dubai someway or another imo_
-----------------

Derek Speirs for The New York Times
By MARK LANDLER
Published: April 14, 2008

DUBLIN — The collapse of the housing bubble in the United States is mutating into a global phenomenon, with real estate prices swooning from the Irish countryside and the Spanish coast to Baltic seaports and even parts of northern India.

This synchronized global slowdown, which has become increasingly stark in recent months, is hobbling economic growth worldwide, affecting not just homes but jobs as well.

In Ireland, Spain, Britain and elsewhere, housing markets that soared over the last decade are falling back to earth. Property analysts predict that some countries, like this one, will face an even more wrenching adjustment than that of the United States, including the possibility that the downturn could become a wholesale collapse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/business/worldbusiness/14real.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin


----------



## IISinbadII

theMasters said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a question regarding the contract purchase price.
> I recently purchased a resale in Marina direct from the developer (Cayan). The premium was about 35% from the launch price.
> The contract though has the original price without the premium. Is this normal practice? Shouldn't the contract list the price plus the premium which would be the total price I will end up paying.
> What are my options.
> 
> Thanks.


They should have written the actual purchase price. May be it was a mistake.


----------



## 9714

i don't agree, sinbad. i have bought resale before and my situation was the same. anyway, the 'masters' should be glad. the lower the price in your contract the lower your municipality tax will be. I believe it is calculated as a percentage of the price in your contract. correct me, if i am wrong, anyone.


----------



## True Blue

mackie1964 said:


> DS/SG will let us all down again like they have many times so far. Do you want me to list a few of their lies? It would take a few pages. hno:


I agree with you here Mackie. It is refreshing to see investors willing to be objective about their own choice developers, rather than praising them blindly.

DS/SG are still a risky business at the moment, they are exposed by the amount of work they still have to carryout against the funding they have still to receive. As soon as you entrust your money to a developer you want the reassurance that progress is on par. Never been the case with DS. They manage to dress themselves up to look good but need to deliver soon to earn the respect that Steve and Morris dish out unconditionaly.

A bit like my local Mercedes dealer with the fancy showroom and sharp dressed sales staff who are your best friend to get the sale then when you try to book your new car in for warranty or aftersales treatment and they never call you back or the [email protected] phone rings out..............sorry, off on a tangent here but you get the point.

DS/SG are riding on the crest of a Dubai wave. Lets hope they don't wipeout.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Out of curiosity, I checked better homes listings for the Torch, there are currently 19 units for sale in the Torch. I averaged the price per sq ft of all 19. The average market price per sq ft now of the torch is AED 1490 psf. This equates to an average of 55% increase compared to the launch prices.


----------



## mackie1964

Asking for it is one thing, getting it is all together a different matter. :cheers:


----------



## Moez

We have paid 20% till date and we have got the contract. They changed the completion date from April 09 to June 09. 
We went to Jumeirah Village couple of weeks ago and the project seems moving. I think they start to do the foundation.:yes:


----------



## Hanna

*Off Plan investment risks !*

The problem with off-plan projects 
By Peter Cooper on Tuesday, April 15 , 2008 


The economic forces stacking up to push UAE house prices higher and higher are enormous at the moment. It is the complete reverse of the picture in many developed countries right now where housing bubbles created by ultra-low interest rates are bursting. 
The exact opposite is happening in the UAE. First, competition among local mortgage lenders and falling US base rates are lowering the cost of housing finance from previously high levels.
Secondly, the supply of completed property is insufficient as contractors cannot build fast enough and existing owners are not selling. 
Thirdly the UAE economy is undergoing a huge boom thanks to record oil prices, and activity in all areas is expanding rapidly causing a massive increase in demand for accommodation from a surging population.
And finally house prices are low by global standards because freehold for foreigners is new, and property still offers an excellent return for investors with yields of eight per cent to 10 per cent. 

The authorities say the pressure will come off rising rents later this year as many new projects are completed and this could cool price increases. But to date all new supply in the market has been quickly absorbed. 
Commentators said the same six months ago about the delivery of the 6,500 apartments in the Jumeirah Beach Residence and the even larger International City from Nakheel. Yet it is more difficult than ever to find completed property in Dubai today. 

This brings us to the latest revelations about the cancellation of certain off-plan projects in Dubai. The cancellation of the Palm Springs apartment project on the Palm Jebel Ali has angered buyers who are being offered their money back with interest or an apartment on another Damac project at a 15 per cent discount. 
The problem is that many owners bought in the second-hand market and face a loss on the original price and therefore have little practical alternative but to switch to another development.
Damac may actually be doing them a favour as the infrastructure of the Palm Jebel Ali is now not scheduled for completion until 2012, when presumably construction could finally begin. 
However, some off-plan buyers on other schemes have apparently been handed their money back simply because rising construction costs have made the project unprofitable to the developer. In a few cases the developer has reportedly then gone on to re-launch the project at higher prices.
At least, there is some justification in terms of rising construction costs. Over the past year, the price of cement and steel rebar has gone up by 30 per cent.
Units that sold for Dh600 per square feet now cost Dh1,000 per sq ft to build. But does that mean a sale can be abandoned? What about the sale contract? This is the sort of market abuse the new Real Estate Regulatory Authority and compulsory escrow or trust accounts for off-plan monies are designed to tackle. 
And it is going to be interesting to see whether a developer can be forced to proceed with a project in the knowledge that a loss will be made. If this does not happen, and the phenomenon of withdrawing off-plan schemes from the market becomes more common, then this is going to add yet another upward pressure to house prices.
For then the rising cost of construction is going to be fully reflected in the cost of apartments. And this will reduce the supply chain and increase demand for those units actually available, forcing prices up.
Indeed, agents are already counselling people, who are worried about buying off-plan, to look at the second-hand market. A switch in buyer interest from the off-plan sector towards completed property will put further pressure on the dwindling supply of available units.
It is quite notable in the hefty property advertising publications that the same units are often repeated in many adverts and that completed units in many finished developments are in short supply. 
An alternative to buying a completed home is to purchase an off-plan scheme that is already under construction. For then you will have a better idea of the likely completion date, and that the unit will be completed. 


It is much harder when you buy something where the developer has not yet broken ground, or is promising to in the near future. But that is also why off-plan units generally sell at a good discount to the finished product, as part of the development risk is off-loaded on to the buyer. However, whether it is also reasonable to expect off-plan apartment buyers to take a risk that their apartment will never be built is now under the microscope. :cheers:


----------



## Elb

20 outstanding units!! I don't think so; I know that many did't sign anything and personally we own more than one unit in this project. 
Hishamds; We don't intend to take the money back too. 

I will be leaving to Dubai next week. Ill update you guys... Thanks


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I found a Dubai mortgage for the Torch which according to the adviser requires only 15% deposit even for non residents. The sellers premium may be added to the mortgage also if the bank's valuation matches the sellers price. Available up to 25 years term. Interest rate is 8.49%. May be useful for those who paid up front and now want to release their equity to use to invest in additional properties. Also useful for those who want to buy resales in the Torch to obtain the future capital gains on the full price with only 15% deposit needed.


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## DaYFox

AITU said:


> KMP are trying to "relaunch" this today with prices starting from AED3500 sq ft.
> 
> Apparently construction will commence in "two weeks"
> 
> Hmmmmm......hno:


I think they are relaunching it -if its true- and increasing the prices because 1. their initial calculations were wrong and they cannot cover their own costs and/or 2. they see what rate they can get today (see Launch BurjV, prices there were ridiculous as well) and they become greedy now 3. general shortages linked to price increases have forced them to do so -kind of point 1 again...


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## Hanna

*Risk takers !*

by Rob Corder on Wednesday, 16 April 2008 


Prepayment for any products or services has always warranted a discount. Pay for a flight or hotel room up front, and you expect to get a cheaper price.

Business-to-business transactions invite even deeper discounts for companies prepared to stump up cash in advance.

The reason is simple: prepayment means positive cash flow, which can be worth a considerable percentage of any transaction.

Buying property off plan is the ultimate prepayment scheme and, like all others, it comes with a discount. The reason for the discount is two-fold. First, the developer selling property benefits from positive cash flow. In some cases, sufficient property can be sold to completely finance the building project.

Secondly, there is risk involved for the buyer, and this is built into the price.

The early days of the Dubai real estate boom, when non-Emiratis were first allowed to buy property, was a time of extreme risk. The legal system had not even been changed before developers were selling forms of ownership.

I can recall people being given contracts all but scribbled on the back of a *** packet that promised the bearer that they would own a certain property when the law allowed them to do so.

His Highness Sheikh Mohammed, who was Dubai's Crown Prince at the time, had given his word the law would change, and for early investors - typically buying from government-owned developers - that word was good enough.

These early investors were right. They took the risk and netted massive rewards. Villas selling for $1.5 million when Palm Island was first announced are now being advertised for closer to $15 million.

The developers also won. Dubai government-owned Nakheel's business was almost entirely founded on the cash generated from selling the first Palm Island properties off plan. Emaar, also partially owned by the Dubai government, had earlier pulled the same trick with the city's first freehold developments for expats: Emirates Hills and Emirates Lakes.

Fast-forward six years and, while the law has been considerably tightened regarding foreign ownership, new risks have emerged in the off plan market.

Several tiers of operators have emerged. Developers such as Nakheel and Emaar have been upgraded to master developers. Smaller developers, some of which have become giants in their own right, buy plots from the master developers on which to build their own skyscrapers or villa complexes.

Investors or private home buyers can buy from master developers, sub developers, or real estate brokers that buy and sell ownership rights in the same way as futures traders sell ownership of coffee beans.

And the vast majority of speculators have as much intention of ending up holding keys to a home as traders intend to own tonnes of coffee beans. They are buying and selling paper, not property.

This house or cards has been underpinned by real estate values running ahead of the cost of building property, and the willingness of people to pay ever-higher prices for it.

But these foundations are being attacked from several directions.

Construction costs rose at about twice the rate of inflation in 2007, up around 20% according to research from international consultancy EC Harris. The price of steel reinforcement rose by 46% and structural steel gained 38%, while cement prices ended the year 30% higher.

The cost of steel in the UAE has continued to soar - up 35 percent since the start of the year. And there are shortages of many raw materials used in construction, causing costly delays to projects.

Staff costs are rising due to inflation and competition for workers. Gulf currencies, which are pegged to the US dollar, are weakening. The Indian rupee, the Euro and the British pound are all strengthening, making the GCC a less attractive place to work for citizens of countries that typically provide all the labour for the construction industry.

Money is also getting more expensive in the wake of the global credit crunch. Central banks across the Gulf have been cutting base rates in line with cuts at the US Federal Reserve, but these rates have not been passed on to businesses as banks shy away from making risky loans.

Selling bonds - effectively borrowing from the private sector and wealthy individuals - has become common to finance projects. But confidence is ebbing away and these bonds will need to offer higher and higher guaranteed rates of return to attract buyers. The money to developers is again more expensive.

But the bunker buster that could blow the foundations of the off plan market apart is consumer confidence. Until last month, investors were unconcerned about holding the ownership rights to a property that would be built in the future.

Supply was low, demand was high, and real estate prices looked like going up forever.

But now there are stories that properties will not be built. There are stories that developers would rather compensate people holding ownership rights, than build the properties that they have bought.

Damac Properties' Palm Springs development was the first cancelled project to break into the open. The shockwaves were felt as far away as London, where investors threatened to sue the developer unless the properties they had paid for were built.

Palm Springs should have been completed by the end of last year, but Damac postponed construction of the homes, and finally cancelled it completely in March. They offered to buy back the ownership rights to the properties at a premium of 6 percent per annum for every year since investors bought it.

An investment of $1 million when the project was launched five years previously would only be bought back for $1.33 million - hardly the return that the rest of the Dubai property boom was delivering over that period.

Damac claimed the cancellation was due to planning changes imposed on it by Nakheel, the master developer of Palm Jebel Ali on which Palm Springs was due to sit. Nakheel denies responsibility.

It is possible that Damac has fallen into a negative equity trap where the revenue it raised from the sale off plan of the Palm Springs development is no longer sufficient to build the project at a profit.

Five years on from the launch of Palm Springs, it is cheaper to buy back the ownership rights at 33 percent more than they sold them for than to build the properties.

UAE daily Emirates Business on Tuesday unearthed two other developers that claim to be in a similar situation. Al Arefi Marina at Dubai Marina and the A1 Tower at Jumeirah Village South, have been put on hold or cancelled, according to the paper, although the developers responsible for the projects have not made the decision on whether to buy back ownership rights, or continue to build what might be loss-making towers.

If buy-backs become common, billions could be wiped off the value of ownership rights overnight. Owners would be faced with a terrifying choice: sell at a discount rate back to the developer - perhaps 30 percent below today's values - or press for the development to be completed, which might bankrupt the developer leaving the owner with nothing.

The rising costs afflicting the construction and development industries show no signs of abating. The only release valve might be a sharp economic slowdown, which would be as likely to send weaker developers bust as spiralling inflation.

The risks therefore are growing, while the potential rewards are shrinking in buying property off plan. The attraction of prepayment is vanishing for buyers, while becoming ever more critical to the survival of sellers.

The days of multi-billion projects being sold off-plan within hours of their launch could be over. Expect buyers to show considerably more caution in the future.

:cheers:


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## Dubai_Steve

I am thinking of buying a resale in the Torch with a 85% LTV mortgage.

Here are some quick numbers. What do you think? 



Original 2005 Launch Price AED 1.2m
Current Resale Price AED 1.55m

Deposit @ 15% = AED 180,000 
Mortgage @ 85% LTV = 1.3175m

Interest Paid at 8.49% for 2.5 years = AED 279,640

Resale price on completion at fairly conservative estimate of AED 2,000 psf = 2.56m

Profit = AED 730,360
Return on investment of AED 180,000 = 400% in 2.5 years.

In other words, spend £25k and get £100k back in 2.5 years.

or borrow the £25K in the UK and get back £100k back in 2.5 years = £70,000 profit with no money down.


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## High Times

Where do I sign ?


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## Tractor

What bank provides an 85% mortgage on the Torch even though its not completed?


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## mackie1964

Sounds like I found some Buyers at last :banana: 

Sign here please or PM me.

Come on Stevey, you know you want to.


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## Dubai_Steve

Tractor said:


> What bank provides an 85% mortgage on the Torch even though its not completed?


I am assured it is possible by the adviser. Still checking into this, will let you know.

Sorry Mackie, I will prefer to buy the few that are remaining at 30% premium first.


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## LaCasta

I have finally managed to sell one of my properties and I was planning on investing in Business Bay, but the prices have gone from less than <2000 psf to 2500+ since the time I have been considering it. It sucks really, what are prices for office space in other areas like JLT? I think people overlook those areas when they think of commercial space.


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## Morten_Denmark

LaCasta said:


> I have finally managed to sell one of my properties and I was planning on investing in Business Bay, but the prices have gone from less than <2000 psf to 2500+ since the time I have been considering it. It sucks really, what are prices for office space in other areas like JLT? I think people overlook those areas when they think of commercial space.


Buisness Bay - commercial space - 2500+ ! Still seems like a superior deal compared to commercial space JLT. In the time passed also JLT has gone up.. Sorry for not being of much help


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## LaCasta

Morten_Denmark said:


> Buisness Bay - commercial space - 2500+ ! Still seems like a superior deal compared to commercial space JLT. In the time passed also JLT has gone up.. Sorry for not being of much help


No problem

I actually have gone through some ads in Gulf News and you can still find some spaces for 2000/sqf. Its strange though, since supposedly all the new pre-launches are suppose to start at 2500+

It stings a bit that it has gone up so much since I have been waiting to sell a piece of property to invest in BB, but on the bright side I was able to sell a secondary home in a slumping US market


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## Smokeey

What are the annual maintenance/service fees like for commercial property in comparison to residential? Are they generally alot higher? Also are there any additional charges levied on commercial space (e.g I have seen a 'municipality tax' on commercial spaces listed on Better Homes...whats that about?)

I am seriously tempted to invest in commercial space (most likely in Business Bay) but would like to confirm that there are no outrageous annual fees attached to them, and if there are, could some of these be passed on the tenant?


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## Morten_Denmark

LaCasta said:


> No problem
> 
> I actually have gone through some ads in Gulf News and you can still find some spaces for 2000/sqf. Its strange though, since supposedly all the new pre-launches are suppose to start at 2500+
> 
> It stings a bit that it has gone up so much since I have been waiting to sell a piece of property to invest in BB, but on the bright side I was able to sell a secondary home in a slumping US market


If a person has bought (lets say) 6 units at launch for 1500 psf. He cant afford to go all the way with the payments and will need to sell 4 units again at a later stage. He needs to sell lower than the developer current price being 2500 otherwise there will be no sell. Also the new buyer needs to pay the premium which will be a large sum if the units has gone up 500 psf. This is a common example. So it is not a scam that you can buy at 2 k even if the developer sells at 2.5 k. And the seller is not dissapointed as he has just got 2units for nothing.


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## Morten_Denmark

LaCasta said:


> No problem
> 
> I actually have gone through some ads in Gulf News and you can still find some spaces for 2000/sqf. Its strange though, since supposedly all the new pre-launches are suppose to start at 2500+
> 
> It stings a bit that it has gone up so much since I have been waiting to sell a piece of property to invest in BB, but on the bright side I was able to sell a secondary home in a slumping US market


If I was to buy a nice holiday home in the US close to a beach - do I want to buy in Florida or do I want to go to the west coast ? I mean - what would be the best deal if one would like to rent it out for holidays - that is short-term.

I have heard that Florida would be the cheapest and best option !!


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## LaCasta

Morten_Denmark said:


> If a person has bought (lets say) 6 units at launch for 1500 psf. He cant afford to go all the way with the payments and will need to sell 4 units again at a later stage. He needs to sell lower than the developer current price being 2500 otherwise there will be no sell. Also the new buyer needs to pay the premium which will be a large sum if the units has gone up 500 psf. This is a common example. So it is not a scam that you can buy at 2 k even if the developer sells at 2.5 k. And the seller is not dissapointed as he has just got 2units for nothing.


That makes sense

I am looking at more resales and in a building like The Gemini, there are some office spaces listed for 1400/sqf which seems like an amazing deal all things considered. I guess if you take the time and look through some of these resales you can find investors like you mentioned who are essentially selling in bulk.



> If I was to buy a nice holiday home in the US close to a beach - do I want to buy in Florida or do I want to go to the west coast ? I mean - what would be the best deal if one would like to rent it out for holidays - that is short-term.
> 
> I have heard that Florida would be the cheapest and best option !!


If you are thinking about buying something in the US, east coast or west coast, I would definitely wait a while as the prices are still going down all over the US (California especially). As far as renting something for a couple months for vacation, I know that a 2 br condo in Miami close to South Beach can go for close to $3000USD/month, but that is with a typical yearly lease. So renting it for a few months could be more. I am sure it would be at least that much in the Laguna Beach / LA area of cali. If you are thinking of vacationing in either one let me know, I can recommend really beautiful places to go see.


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## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> I am thinking of buying a resale in the Torch with a 85% LTV mortgage.
> 
> Here are some quick numbers. What do you think?
> 
> 
> 
> Original 2005 Launch Price AED 1.2m
> Current Resale Price AED 1.55m
> 
> Deposit @ 15% = AED 180,000
> Mortgage @ 85% LTV = 1.3175m
> 
> Interest Paid at 8.49% for 2.5 years = AED 279,640
> 
> Resale price on completion at fairly conservative estimate of AED 2,000 psf = 2.56m
> 
> Profit = AED 730,360
> Return on investment of AED 180,000 = 400% in 2.5 years.
> 
> In other words, spend £25k and get £100k back in 2.5 years.
> 
> or borrow the £25K in the UK and get back £100k back in 2.5 years = £70,000 profit with no money down.


Someone once said "He who dare wins!" Who would have believed that we would be talking about a bench mark figure of 2000AED/ft2 1 year ago?

My opinion today is that Torch is below that bench mark being at a fetus stage with dwindling views and appeal.

^^ Just a personal opinion, don't castigate Cayan over my views


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## agod

Morten_Denmark said:


> If I was to buy a nice holiday home in the US close to a beach - do I want to buy in Florida or do I want to go to the west coast ? I mean - what would be the best deal if one would like to rent it out for holidays - that is short-term.
> 
> I have heard that Florida would be the cheapest and best option !!


Hi Morten

In the USA rental inits are in zoned divisions, some allow short term others not, only long term, it is important to get that right, Orlando in Florida is about as good as it gets, all year round rental returns, because of Disney, and bargains to be had, it is also ony 50 miles from the beach, I dont want to sound like I am selling, especially on a Dubai Forum, But I have a 3 bed Condo on a luxury Golf Resort, (Reunion resort and club) and it grosses $30000 a year, the club takes half of that, but finds all the bookings, and keeps it turning over, I have it on the MLS for $100,000 less than I paid for it.

Alan


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## bizzybonita

I agree 100% with you salim ...They are relaunching of the relaunching .


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## ferrari430

floors is the business at the momment especially in good projects. This is being quite succesful in Al Reem abu dhabi currently. Speculators are making the likes of 30% premiums in matter of 2/3 months.

It is a great idea. I will be interested too


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## was2103

Hey, if I put in more money than you, can I have my name on the agreement?

Your plan is ambitious and you seem to be a relatively smart person. As another member pointed out, you need trusted relationships in place before you can embark upon such exciting adventures.

I got a few floors in Reem Island which we purchased exactly like this. 5 people made contributions in a matter of days. These deals are real and profitable, but the relationships are rare and priceless.


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## rexdmx

BrobertyEenvestar said:


> *Wow guys... you put the nail on the head (or on the coffin should I say?). Indeed it just seems since everyone is doing it, that it's simple, yet it really isn't. *
> 
> 
> 
> Well said. Still I am optimistic that in the absence of time to earn trust, a track record & references will do... because behind this Internet avatar there's a real person, whose entire family has been in Dubai for 15 years, with vested ties to the country, and has a public reputation to keep -- I think this itself is cred when I would meet a possible investor in person. Problem is in one week how on earth am I going to get introduced to such an investor in the first place! No cafe where they all hang out is there?
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I want to do, ask participants to invest directly in a concrete & legal scheme Sinbad, everyone knows that any real estate bull market is a bubble but I hope you're not suggesting that the real estate industry in Dubai is one big inheritance-from-Nigeria-email fraud without value?
> 
> Every big guy was a small guy once, new to the big game. I wouldn't have entertained this idea if I didn't have privileged knowledge & access to the developer.
> :gossip: :grouphug::
> Very valid point though about prime location projects not needing discounts/pre-pre launching --Thanks --I've asked about this now. The clarification I got back is that there is no pre-pre launch as I thought at *discount*. What is happening is just that we are able to convince the developer to take a cheque & book a floor at the standard launch price to a preferential wasta like mine in the week (now) after the architectural plans got signed off on but before the official prelaunch (when their salespeople get the green light to market floors to strategic buyers), and formal media launch to the public. Floor buyers then resell commercial floors to companies, individual units in the residential one, or rent them out. I have no guarantees of course but I use knowledge to minimize risk, this is the difference between successful investment and gambling. I am projecting an ROI based on how fast neighboring developments in its immediate vicinity have sold out & appreciated by the time the second payment was due.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing is that I actually once had an encounter here with a Russian who took my cell phone to steal my identity, and yes my Mama freaked. :gunz: Reported him to police, caught, convicted, deported!
> 
> 
> 
> What you're saying is REALLY intriguing Morten!! How can that be? Can you please share more, why?
> Of course if the developer goes bust or the project gets scrapped. But besides that I thought that if for any reason I can't sell off the floor before next payment is due, the developer would take it back and be nice enough to refund our deposit, no?  :wallbash: Are you saying that for this to work, I have to already have the ultimate buyer I'll resell to lined up from now, and work with their money somehow?
> KRAZY did the poll on this forum and overall Dubai market sentiment is that while returns slowed it will not have any correction (loss) in the foreseeable future so Im confident I can find a buyer!? Heck, when it sells out and a month later I find that I'm stuck and it's too hard to find a buyer, why can't I just go back to one of their own darned salespeople and tell them here, I don't know how to resell this, it's your expertise, YOU take all the premium/commission on it?
> 
> 
> 
> Or I could just go to etisalat, the biggest spam agency in town, and blast an SMS! But HEY this is NOT a scam when I have my OWN money in it. Let's be realistic, it's a one-to-one thing between two people who trust each other like Morris said. I wouldn't want someone in this who **I** can't trust, because if they are going to put their money in it in the first place I need to give them full disclosure about the project etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Dat's funny High Times, vewwweee veweee funny.


been reading your details with interest...
first things first, the fact remains unless you can find ppl who trust you... u cant get the funds...
start small with a few friends and start building a reputation for yourself after making a " killing" with your deals, then you would start moving to the big fish with the record to back you up
third of all, stop referring to fraud by naming countries like nigeria or russia. doesn't really help your cause that much
fourth of all, scour the whole market for the best deal...you may find that in projects that have huge potential like al reem island


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## sval

*Which Apartment Size is best ?*

Which apartment size is best from a purely rental investment point of view in JLT / Business Bay? Are studios the best option in terms of yield looking at the demographic profile of the would be workers.
Any advice from Dubai property experts most welcome.


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## evoorhees1

AltinD said:


> I saw in a magazine a TONINO LAMBORGHINI tower to be launched on April 8th (I'know it's the 18th today).


Hi AltinD, - is there any way you could tell me the magazine you saw that in? Or, if you're feeling particularly generous, could you scan it and post? The reason I ask is that my girlfriend worked for the company that is launching that building and we'd love to see what they came up with.

Thanks!


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## BrobertyEenvestar

evoorhees1 said:


> Hi AltinD, - is there any way you could tell me the magazine you saw that in? Or, if you're feeling particularly generous, could you scan it and post? The reason I ask is that my girlfriend worked for the company that is launching that building and we'd love to see what they came up with.
> Thanks!


I was there at the launch gala dinner with Tonino Lamborghini speaking himself. I have the full color brochure with all the details. Some creative ideas. I'm not able to scan; if anyone will volunteer to scan and post its pics here, PM me & you can pick it up from me.



I just wanted to solicit your ideas/experiences/lessons learned in this post (not investors), plus I don't want to hog this thread with this, so if you're an investor then PM me with your mobile # and I'd be glad to discuss in more details. But more sharing of your experiences with group floorbuying is welcome in this thread!


Thanks for all your valuable input! Taken to heart.


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## IISinbadII

sval said:


> Which apartment size is best from a purely rental investment point of view in JLT / Business Bay? Are studios the best option in terms of yield looking at the demographic profile of the would be workers.
> Any advice from Dubai property experts most welcome.


I am no expert, but as they say Studios and 1BR "_move fast_".... Meaning that they sell and rent-out quicker. But it also depends on the availablity at that time. E.g. a few months back Studios were moving slow in International City while 1BRs were faster. Also the rental yeald is higher in studios and 1BR. 

On the other hand, 2BRs are more practical and family oriented. And they generally have better views. E.g. its hard to find studios and 1BRs with full sea view or full marina view. Simply because studios and 1Br are usually on the side or back of the towers.


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## Dubai_Steve

My advice is : For rental yield go for a studio or 1 bed on a low floor. For capital gains go for a 2 bed on a high floor, preferably with a nice view.


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## Smokeey

Has anyone heard of or dealt with a company called Aray Properties? Would love to get some opinions of them as I have been offered a fairly good deal for an office in the Burj Al Alam from them, but only if I pay 100% in advance 

Now I'm a total n00b to property invesmtent in Dubai and know nothing about Aray Properties so I'm obviously quite nervous and sceptical of paying the entire fee upfront to them as I have no idea whether they are legit or not. I'm also a little concerned that the Burj Al Alam project has not even begun properly yet and most likely wont be completed for at least 4 years!

So any advice you can give me would be most appreciated. I'm usually of the opinion that if something sounds too good to be true then it usually is!


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## lovedubai

100% in advance for something not ready for 4 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BrobertyEenvestar

Thought I'd give you all an update about this and show you all that your feedback really did help. Time is short, need to get this together in a matter of days. I began focusing closer in, on my circle of friends, and raised 600k AED over lunchtime! Half more to go. A bank sub-account is being set up just to keep personal money separate from this investment's, which folks would contribute into. Now to draft a brief one page contract outlining terms overnight. My question to the forum is: Has anyone here who has pooled together with others for a property pureplay investment done this (a contract)? If you know of an online template, a link would help, or if you have a copy with you I can base my draft on, please do PM me. 
Even if you haven't done this before, anyone got any ideas about what kind of terms/clauses/disclaimers I should make sure to put in it? To protect the interests of everybody involved!

Anyone who helps/throws out good ideas here gets from me a Llama (no kidding!), a high five, and a monumental honoring of your heroic kudos in this thread for saving the day.


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## Dubai_Steve

Sorry, I only take payment in camels.


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## BrobertyEenvestar

Steve, I see you havent heard that the task force recommended that the Camel peg still be fixed to the Llama, so ultimately you'll get the same net herd. Don't worry, go on chip in your two hoofs worth of ideas and I will top your contribution up with also praising you on your nice makeup.


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## Smokeey

lovedubai said:


> 100% in advance for something not ready for 4 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I know! This is the part that worries me, in addition to the fact that I dont anything about the company (but I'm currently researching them). Also if I do buy it I think I'll have problems reselling as not many people will be able to or be willing to stump up 100% of the cash upfront - which may be why the office space has still not yet been sold. However this isn't a huge concern for me, as I plan to keep the office until completion (whenever that may be!). The million dollar question is whether Aray Properties are trustworthy and legit and this isn't some fly-by-night company.

I'm totallly confused and would love some advice. What would you guys do in this situation?


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## AITU

^^They would need to offer a hefty discount over the market price for this to be attractive.

I would want a high floor and not to be paying much above AED1500 sq ft to think it be worthwhile.


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## Morrismarina

Smokeey said:


> I know! This is the part that worries me, in addition to the fact that I dont anything about the company (but I'm currently researching them). Also if I do buy it I think I'll have problems reselling as not many people will be able to or be willing to stump up 100% of the cash upfront - which may be why the office space has still not yet been sold. However this isn't a huge concern for me, as I plan to keep the office until completion (whenever that may be!). The million dollar question is whether Aray Properties are trustworthy and legit and this isn't some fly-by-night company.
> 
> I'm totallly confused and would love some advice. What would you guys do in this situation?


Just a thought......... not sure if RERA covers commercial property, somebody on this forum might know ??

If so.......then make sure you do the same checks as for a residential property - check they are RERA registered and that the escrow account has been opened. ie. ask for registration and account numbers and verify them independently with RERA before handing over the money.


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## Dubai_Steve

As an investor, buying with 100% down with a 4 year wait does not make much sense. You can buy several properties with the same deposit money, with 15% to 30% down instead and get the capital gain on all of them instead of 1.


----------



## High Times

100% up front with a 4 year wait is insane.

Think about what else your money could be doing in this time.

I know of at least 2 - 3 bedroom units in a tower in the tallest block that will be complete by Sept 2009 where you will double your money easily.

40% down and pre-arranged guaranteed non status mortgage at a fixed rate less than 7%.

If you dont like that there is always the SSC bulk buy floor consortium where you invest your mothers funeral expenses account at lunchtime and make 30% profit by the time you've finished your apple shisha and coffee. 

Everyones a winner baby, thats for sure.


----------



## BrobertyEenvestar

High Times said:


> 100% up front with a 4 year wait is insane.
> 
> Think about what else your money could be doing in this time.
> 
> I know of at least 2 - 3 bedroom units in a tower in the tallest block that will be complete by Sept 2009 where you will double your money easily.
> 
> 40% down and pre-arranged guaranteed non status mortgage at a fixed rate less than 7%.
> 
> If you dont like that there is always the SSC bulk buy floor consortium where you invest your mothers funeral expenses account at lunchtime and make 30% profit by the time you've finished your apple shisha and coffee.
> 
> Everyones a winner baby, thats for sure.


Mmm apple shisha and coffee after lunch dat's someone who knows how to live la dolce vita in Dbayy let me know next time when I quit my dayjob!!

Smokeey beaR can do all 3... Consort with the BrobertyEenvestarrrrrr, get that money back plus gains when we flip the floor(s) in 3 months, then put that on your tower units & sell'em when complete in 2009, the by which time he'd have ascertained if this Burj Al Alam deal is legit, and if it is, do that and get those gains by the 4th year, which would get any mamma a vaycay cruisetrip to the moon and back. Long live Umm Smokeey of course. 

Yeah baby, groovydelic, baby!

And the next post on this thread is...


----------



## plotman

BORING


----------



## High Times

INTERESTING.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2008/04/18/mme.facetime.muntafiq.cnn


Cheers Steve.


----------



## AltinD

evoorhees1 said:


> Hi AltinD, - is there any way you could tell me the magazine you saw that in? Or, if you're feeling particularly generous, could you scan it and post? The reason I ask is that my girlfriend worked for the company that is launching that building and we'd love to see what they came up with.
> 
> Thanks!


http://www.s3ldevelopment.com/


----------



## agod

High Times said:


> INTERESTING.
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2008/04/18/mme.facetime.muntafiq.cnn
> 
> 
> Cheers Steve.


Very Interesting, No Mug, I would certainly beleive in him, I see a very intelligent and articulate man, what I gleamed was Dubai is on course to become their vision, whatever the rest of us think.

Alan G


----------



## Smokeey

AITU said:


> ^^They would need to offer a hefty discount over the market price for this to be attractive.
> 
> I would want a high floor and not to be paying much above AED1500 sq ft to think it be worthwhile.


They are offering AED1500psf for a 9th floor office space - which is aorund 35% below current resale price so I think its a good deal. I would have loved to have got a higher floor (at least something with a view that will clear the low-rise towers in front of it) but thats all they had. Apparently they mentioned that some US company bought the entire 9th floor back in 2006 at a heavy discount as they paid 100% upfront also. Now they want to sell it so buyers need to also pay the 100% upfront. 



Morrismarina said:


> Just a thought......... not sure if RERA covers commercial property, somebody on this forum might know ??
> 
> If so.......then make sure you do the same checks as for a residential property - check they are RERA registered and that the escrow account has been opened. ie. ask for registration and account numbers and verify them independently with RERA before handing over the money.


Good point - will definitely look into this. Anyone know if RERA also applies to commercial space?



Dubai_Steve said:


> As an investor, buying with 100% down with a 4 year wait does not make much sense. You can buy several properties with the same deposit money, with 15% to 30% down instead and get the capital gain on all of them instead of 1.


I've been thinking the same thing too actually. Do you know of any commercial developments that offer 30% down/70% on completion payment plans? That was my initial plan as it would give me a potentially greater (and faster) return, as well as the fact that I'm spreading my investment as opposed to putting all my eggs in one basket. However I couldn't find any properties in BB or JLT (my target areas for investment) that offer this payment plan - with the exception of Ubora - who aren't selling any more units until October 



High Times said:


> 100% up front with a 4 year wait is insane.
> 
> Think about what else your money could be doing in this time.
> 
> I know of at least 2 - 3 bedroom units in a tower in the tallest block that will be complete by Sept 2009 where you will double your money easily.
> 
> 40% down and pre-arranged guaranteed non status mortgage at a fixed rate less than 7%.
> 
> If you dont like that there is always the SSC bulk buy floor consortium where you invest your mothers funeral expenses account at lunchtime and make 30% profit by the time you've finished your apple shisha and coffee.
> 
> Everyones a winner baby, thats for sure.


:lol: Yeah the SSC bulk buy group is also an option (and most likely a much safer transaction  ) I really like the sound of the bedroom units you mentioned though - would you be able to tell me more? As mentioned above, if I could find two or three good projects that require 30-40% upfront with the remainder on completion I would much rather do that and achieve gains on all of them instead of putting it all into a single pot, as Dubai_Steve rightly pointed out.



BrobertyEenvestar said:


> Mmm apple shisha and coffee after lunch dat's someone who knows how to live la dolce vita in Dbayy let me know next time when I quit my dayjob!!
> 
> Smokeey beaR can do all 3... Consort with the BrobertyEenvestarrrrrr, get that money back plus gains when we flip the floor(s) in 3 months, then put that on your tower units & sell'em when complete in 2009, the by which time he'd have ascertained if this Burj Al Alam deal is legit, and if it is, do that and get those gains by the 4th year, which would get any mamma a vaycay cruisetrip to the moon and back. Long live Umm Smokeey of course.
> 
> Yeah baby, groovydelic, baby!


Er...yeah...thanks BE. You sure you haven't been getting high on shisha yourself recently lol!!

Thanks for all the advice guys - keep it coming!


----------



## IISinbadII

A friend of mine wants to purchase a 2BR unit for his family to live in. Has to be complete now or ready in the next 4-6 months since he cant wait too long. Must have a nice view. Something that would appreciate in value over time. Some of the options include:

-Springs Townhouse 
-The Views - i.e. Golf Towers, Links or Fairways.
-JBR
-others? 

Before I give him my opinion, I wanted to ask yours. What would you choose and why?
Any other ideas.

Thanks.


----------



## Mavekris

^^ why not Jlt ?


----------



## IISinbadII

Mavekris said:


> ^^ why not Jlt ?


Why do you think JLT is better. I think JLT units on high floors should have a nice marina+sea view. 

Also do you know which towers are complete (or near completion) in JLT. 

Thanks.


----------



## IISinbadII

*Secrets of successful off-plan property purchases in Dubai*

United Arab Emirates: Sunday, April 20 - 2008

The developer of Aquarius Gate in Dubai has just announced a sell-out to investors in the pre-launch phase. This $820m mixed-use project at Nakheel's Waterfront, opposite the Palm Jebel Ali, is just the latest example of successful Dubai off-plan sales. But recent controversy surrounding Damac Properties' Palm Springs has raised questions about buying off-plan.

After the intervention of the Dubai Lands Department last week, the Palm Springs project has been fully reinstated and is back on schedule, according to Damac.

However, there are a number of 'secrets' or major considerations when purchasing off-plan units in Dubai.

1. Who is the developer? How long has it been in business? How many projects has it launched and how many have been delivered? Have there been any complaints about the quality of these developments? Are these the sort of people you would trust with your money?

2. What sort of financial backing does the developer have? This is really linked to the first question but it is subtly different. In Dubai, the lowest risk comes with government-owned projects. Nakheel, Limitless and Dubai Properties are all 100% owned by the government, whereas the government has a large and effectively controlling stake in Emaar.

3. Also consider the price of units for sale from the point of view of construction costs. Do the units just look too cheap to allow the developer to finish the building? It sounds contrary to logic, but cheap off-plan should sound warning signals, as low-cost may mean low quality or even a failure to deliver if the developer gets into financial trouble.

4. In Dubai it has been compulsory since last July to have escrow or trust accounts for all off-plan projects. But check to see which bank is providing escrow facilities. Again a government-owned or controlled bank will have a higher credit rating.

5. If you are taking finance for your off-plan purchase you need to be particularly careful that the payments structure is fair and practical for your circumstances. You do not want to pay interest on a loan for a delayed project, for example, or at least to keep such exposure to a minimum.

6. The amount of risk you take in an off-plan purchase is also determined by the stage of the development. If work has not started on site, and all you can see is an architect's drawing and an illustration, then the risk of project delay is highest. If, on the other hand, you can see work-in-progress and a substantial amount of construction then delivery on schedule is far more likely. Many developers keep back some units for sale later in the construction cycle, but you will pay more for them.

7. Your current rental costs should be considered. Does buying off-plan mean that you are going to have to stay in expensive rental accommodation for a long time? If so you need to add up that cost, and consider whether moving to a completed property in the secondary market might not make more sense.

8. Location is the most important consideration when buying any property, but people sometimes seem forget this when buying off-plan. Check out the location personally, even if it is just a piece of desert! For there is a big difference between living in Downtown Dubai next to the Burj Dubai, the world's tallest structure, and out in the desert of Dubailand.

Find this article at:
http://www.ameinfo.com/news/Detailed/153868.html


----------



## Mavekris

Most of the projects are prices at 1200 to 1300 when you compare this to Discovery gardens which are selling 1000 per sqft ( Which i really cannot belive).

By this year Jlt will in a pretty good shape.And there is a potential growth of alteast 25% on the total value.

They have started working on lake it will be done by the end of the year for sure.

Once water is in the lake prices will surely increase.


Gold crest views 2 
Icon towers 
Lake --- ( damac tower) 

these are the which will be complete very soon.

And also 1 or 2 office towers will also be handed over.

Hope this helps.





IISinbadII said:


> Why do you think JLT is better. I think JLT units on high floors should have a nice marina+sea view.
> 
> Also do you know which towers are complete (or near completion) in JLT.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## ferrari430

IISinbadII said:


> Why do you think JLT is better. I think JLT units on high floors should have a nice marina+sea view.
> 
> Also do you know which towers are complete (or near completion) in JLT.
> 
> Thanks.


I will be specific and say buy a 2 bed 1200 sqft unit in lake terrace by Damac.

The reasons are:

1) value for money. These cost between 1.6 - 1.7m
2) Lake terrace is the next tower to be handed over in JLT eg May/June for sure
3) I have been inside the tower and can vouch for the quality
4) There are only one 2 bed units per floor so 2 beds are rare in the tower
5) The 2 beds are right in the front and have wrapped around balconies and so have panoramic 180 degree views of the lake
6) Prices are certain to appreciate on handover in 2 months
7) position of the tower is just next to the up coming Dubai Metro station
8) There are 5/6 units now available from better homes

All in all in my opinion currently best buy for 2 beds in JLT


----------



## MarcoJ

*PAYMENT and Handover ?*

I have been told to not to make any furthur payments because Mazaya doesnt have the escrow account setup yet . .and I was told that the handover date would be June 2009 but now they have moved the handover date to December 2009.

Can anyone conform these facts ? Thanks


----------



## Beppe786

Sterling had an eventful week. On Monday it added six fils to touch Dh 7.31. It immediately fell back and hit a low of Dh 7.19 on Tuesday. Wednesday saw it back up to Dh 7.27. A dip to Dh 7.23was followed by a strong rally on Thursday and Friday that took it above $2 - Dh 7.345 - in early trade today but by the time London opened it had settled back to Dh 7.33, eight fils up on the week.

do you think its gonna get any better or worse?


----------



## Naz UK

Dunno.

Back to Andrew, for the weather.


----------



## DubaiMarina

*Dubai rents register ‘slowdown’*

*Dubai rents register ‘slowdown’ *

Rents in Dubai have shown a flatter growth rate in the first quarter of 2008 compared to the last quarter of 2007, a Dubai-based property services company has claimed.


The Quarterly Residential Report by Asteco found that rents have registered a slower increase as availability of residential units has risen.


At the other extreme, the lowest rents can be found at International City with studios from Dh42,000 and one-bedroom units available at about Dh58,000. When comparing year-on-year rental changes in Dubai, the highest increases were reported at the Greens for studios, the company said, where average annual rents increased from Dh65,000 to Dh85,000, a 31 per cent increase. Two-bedroom units at International City witnessed a 36 per cent increase in rents, from Dh70,000 to Dh95,000, when compared to the same period last year.

http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=5901


----------



## BrobertyEenvestar

Thanks to a stellar UAE real estate limited liability partnership agreement sent to me by a contributor who'll remain anonymous, we've got a complete operating model now for ganging up on floorbuying with friends and strangers alike. Keeping with my promise to recognize that hero, here is their...

:llama:


----------



## Naz UK

Brilliant. Why don't you name your company after 6 words that come to my mind now? Dumb, Amateur, Multi-level Marketing, And Con.

You could shorten it to DAMMAC. (Not to be confused with Damac, who is a perfectly legitimate, honest and trustworthy business, who's just having a rather rough time and a spate of bad luck, what with the unpredictably sudden increase in construction costs and the hourly rate of Russian girls).


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Naz UK, you don't have to be so merciless and cruel. 
Give BrobertyEenvestar some benefit of doubt.


----------



## BrobertyEenvestar

Thanks Sinbad and no hard feelings Naz. This brings to mind someone's sig on this forum... a bob dylan quote, "you can't criticize what you don't understand!" It's perfectly normal, someone who hasn't been in touch with me to understand how I plan to make this work, is perfectly entitled to that opinion, and to share it. There's no company etc, it's just fellow investors now having ground rules for going together into a real estate deal where there werent any before. Anyone is invited tonight to our open session meeting between 6-7 pm at Galler Cafe in Ghaya Residence on Sheikh Zayed Road to see how transparent it all is.


----------



## IISinbadII

*Off-plan speculators double their money in Abu Dhabi*

United Arab Emirates: Thursday, February 21 - 2008 at 00:09 

Speculators in off-plan Abu Dhabi property are doubling their investment in as little as nine days, industry sources told AME Info. This looks like a re-run of the gold rush in the early days of the Dubai property market. But finding these high-return opportunities is not easy as the market lacks transparency. 

Flipping part-paid property bought off-the-plan from developers is a fast way to make a lot of money if you can find the opportunity with a trustworthy developer, and house prices are rising rapidly. 

Investors put down a deposit of, for instance, 20 per cent on an apartment, preferably in a pre-launch purchase, and then re-sell for a higher price a short time later. But as investors have put down only that 20 per cent deposit, then a 20 per cent rise in the price of the unit means that you have doubled your money. 

AME Info has talked to three lucky speculators in the past week who have achieved this in Abu Dhabi within the past month. One doubled his money in just nine days. 

Market transparency

However, making money this easily is never quite as simple as it appears. All of the individuals we spoke to, who wished to remain anonymous, were working in positions that gave them knowledge about upcoming project launches that, while not privileged, is relatively hard to obtain. 

On the other hand, this is surely true of any hot investment opportunity. Investors need to do their research and due diligence to sort out the wheat from the chaff, and the best opportunities are not likely to be advertised in the newspapers; you need to get out and find them. 

It is a sure sign of just how quickly the Abu Dhabi property market has developed and how rapidly house prices are now rising that it is possible to successfully make large profits from flipping property. 

Falling interest rates

In particular the recent slashing of US interest rates has put a new fire under the market. Real interest rates in the UAE are now strongly negative, a huge positive for any real estate market which has to discount the cost of money in valuing property. 

*This phenomenon may be relatively short lived. In Dubai the phase when good returns could be made from flipping property lasted not much more than a year, and in the end some speculators found that they could not re-sell and the market collapsed*. 

Given that speculators in Abu Dhabi can refer back to the very recent experience in neighbouring Dubai, it could be that this phenomenon is over more quickly, as the smart money will pile into the market fast and revalue real estate more rapidly. 

Some people are very dismissive of speculators in markets but they do have a vital role in correcting price levels. But it has to be said that they do also often contribute to excessive prices through their over-enthusiasm. This is hard to counteract, although higher deposits on property is one corrective solution. 

http://www.ameinfo.com/147637.html


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ :lol: They can not increase the prices by 20% for every tower launch !
> 
> Why pay 5k or 6k sq.ft when you can buy in the marina for 1.5k sq/ft :nuts:


^^ why, cus it is not the Burj. 

BTW, @ 1.5k sq/ft it won't be an Emaar product. I don't think they would offer anything less than 3k/sq.ft. in the Marina.


----------



## IISinbadII

Coming Saturday, 26th April:


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> Yes, they will soon be launching another tower @ 5k/sq.ft. That is very reasonably priced, considering the one after that would be @ 6k/sq.ft. So you better hurry and seize this opportunity.


This is crazy. At some point, there wont be any buyers, except the filthy rich. Besides, you have to wonder whether the Burj area is really worth the price or is it all hype? Remember, the bigger the bubble, the bigger the sound when it bursts. :lol:


----------



## Mavekris

:lol: good one googly 





googly said:


> This is crazy. At some point, there wont be any buyers, except the filthy rich. Besides, you have to wonder whether the Burj area is really worth the price or is it all hype? Remember, the bigger the bubble, the bigger the sound when it bursts. :lol:


----------



## IISinbadII

googly said:


> This is crazy. At some point, there wont be any buyers, except the filthy rich. Besides, you have to wonder whether the Burj area is really worth the price or is it all hype? Remember, the bigger the bubble, the bigger the sound when it bursts. :lol:


^^ Thats exactly the idea. Only the filthy rich stay in Dubai......the rest move to Sharjah, Ajman and RAK.

BTW, Burj area is like Champs Elysees of Dubai. Property has cycles. Even if there is a bubble, places along SZR should be the first to recover.


----------



## yasir_hilali

As a group of investors/owners who got together, we aren't selling back cheap and I think we collectively have more than 20 units. It is certainly more than 20 units left.

Iskan is an Abu Dhabi based small company
You may talk to Khaled 971 50 803 9000 or their office 971 2 447 4202. We did call them and they are defending Areifi strongly and claim they have bought the tower legally!! Untrue!


----------



## glover

*Second person arrested in Dubai embezzlement case (Deyaar)*

By Bassam Zaza, Staff Reporter
Published: April 23, 2008, 11:08
gulfnews

Dubai: A 49-year-old Indian manager has been arrested and is being questioned in connection with alleged financial irregularities at Deyaar, a Dubai property developer, said Public Prosecution sources on Wednesday. 

Deyaar last week said Chief Executive Officer Zack Shahin had been detained in connection with alleged financial irregularities. Deyaar said he subsequently resigned.


----------



## was2103

Hi Guys,

I'm going to speculate just like the rest of you. First some facts:

Stock market is shit at the moment, Housing / property is slowing in key parts of the west. Iran is expecting some sort of engagement from the yanks (thanks a lot for this by the way, bush you retard).

All of these factors mean that additional attention is focused on the opportunities provided by the no questions asked economy that we have come to know as UAE real estate. Its track record is great for more than 5 years now, projections are still optimistic and last but not least, it's not a bad place to be.

Better yet, the above are true heavy rollers and are looking for new places to make their money work. Dubai and Abu Dhabi are stepping up and presenting slightly higher risk opportunities to earn vast returns.

I think these are the key elements feeding the continued growth in UAE real estate.

Ok, I'm ready for my flaming now...


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Thats exactly the idea. Only the filthy rich stay in Dubai......the rest move to Sharjah, Ajman and RAK.
> 
> BTW, Burj area is like Champs Elysees of Dubai. Property has cycles. Even if there is a bubble, places along SZR should be the first to recover.


Thanks for the explanation. Dubai is not for the likes of me then.:bash:

BTW, there is another Champs Elysees coming up next to Discovery Gardens. What happens when there are two of them in one city? :lol:


----------



## Richard Head

Yup, all that plus the fantastic money laundering opportunities. Heard the one about the guys buying Signature villa resales, then pulling out at the last minute, then it's "oh, the bank account I wrote that 25 million cheque from is closed now, can you please send my money back to my other account at SDBCI (Seriously Dodgy Bank of the Cayman Islands).


----------



## sameerl

Its been almost 5 months since RERA has come into effect with the escrow law, and whilts its still early days, it serves as a useful starting point to gauge the impact on the domestic property market:

1) RERA has been flexing its muscles, by stepping into the DAMAC palm springs dispute (still unclear as to how it has been resolved, but its encouraging to note its activism). Dvelopers such as Schon, Wind, and some others that have had question marks over them, have been forced to open escrow accounts, creating some comfort for investors. In this regard, there has been increased confidence in the part of investors.

2) Education still is a sore point. RERA has not advertised nearly enough, and many investors remain attracted to get rich quick schemes, that are not being regulated. Whilst a regulatory regime takes time to enforce, one early gripe is that RERA could and should do more with edcuating the public through adverts and seminars.

3) Some medium sized developers have fallen by the wayside due to rapidly increasing costs, and their inability to now constuct. Whilst this would have happened anyways, the enforcement of edcrow has now left many with no option but to flee (in some cases this has already happened, with most incidents in jumeirah village). RERA should work closely with masterdevelopers to ensure that all plots purchased should have escorw accounts opened within a short span of time, to ensure that some investor recourse is there.

4) It is difficult to gauge the impact of confidence in a market where prices are generally rising for many reasons, but in araes like jumeriah village, you see price sluggishness. This is also due to many reasons, but amongst them surely is that many developmenst are not getting off the ground; here RERA needs to become more proactive.

,


----------



## plotman

Whilst agreeing with the above,a quick look at the RERA web site shows a lot of work has been done in the last few weeks,also listen very carefully to the recent interview with the CEO of RERA and he states, no developer will be allowed to halt or shelve a project on the basis of,loss of profit.He reinforces this saying they will give their investors what they promised them.It looks like their teeth are growing fast.I would guess any developer not complying,could be banned from the Emirate.


----------



## was2103

I heard from an Iranian agent that a lot of Iranians are buying up property here in anticipation of war. Dubai is the closest business partner to Iran in the GCC and many Iranians have historical / famely ties back to this place.


----------



## abf

With oil at $120- Food being the casualty of bio oil where is it going to go with another war! Ironically war was waged for supply of oil


----------



## was2103

Good points, but there is no telling what is to come. It does however seem that people are already taking evasive action.

If you remember, Dick came over to Saudi Arabia last month and as soon as he left, they started preparing for Nuclear fall out. His visits are always exciting.

Even in the grand plan, UAE and other GCC states are safe from any local disturbances, unless Iran decides to fight back against the various US bases scattered throughout the region. It's a gloomy subject, but one that we should all be aware of, none the less...


----------



## Ali_Syed

Anyone know a good estate agent? i am selling my studio in this development. would like to contact an agent.


----------



## DubaiMarina

Last week RERA (Dubai Land Department) told me that there is *NO* escrow account. I know that they have sold same office twice. 

RERA TOLD ME: Do not give them money direct! Pay only to escrow account. :badnews:

You should all inform RERA if you have paid something direct to them already.

RERA:

When buying "off-the-plan" only pay into a RERA approved trust account. The cheque and receipt must read in the name of the project. If you pay your monies into the developer, agent, or any other account, the person or company you are dealing with is breaking the law. Have you paid direct to KM Properties?

http://rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/jsp/template.jsp?pageID=40004&&lang=0


----------



## BenjiDXB

What do you guys think of the article in today's Emirates Business 24/7 on page 2 and 3 ? Said that according to investment bank UBS, the greatest risk for the UAE economy is an oversupply of luxury residential appartments in Dubai starting from 2010, which will lead to a decline in property prices. With an estimated 150.000 residential units to be completed in 2008 and 2009, the market could swing into an oversupply situation...
This is the link to the article:
http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=6006


----------



## Imre

^^^^hno:

150,000 units in 2008 and 2009?? 

where?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

:lol: These investment banks do not have a clue about construction delays n Dubai.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai must build on its attractions 


Dubai must build on its attractions: I think every single week I am asked the question; "When is all of this going to come to an end?" 

It's fair to say that everyone has their own answers to this question. The pessimists would suggest that we are sitting on a bubble that is due to burst any day while the optimists will argue that it's all good in Dubai and we are safe for at least another ten years. 

So what is the answer?

Well, I think it's important to look at the facts and the truth is that Dubai has changed the lives of many people. From labourers to professionals, most people come to Dubai to start a new life and in doing so; weigh the costs of moving here against the likely returns. 

It's a relatively easy choice given that in Dubai there are no income taxes, the cost of labour is inexpensive, the weather is good, the cost of living is relatively low, the country is centrally located, the political system is sound and well revered and the industries are not overly regulated. Therefore, unless there is something tying a person to their home country, the move to Dubai requires nothing more than a certain amount of money and a bit of courage. 

All of this has made Dubai so attractive to expatriates that when people move here and enjoy the benefits, others are motivated to do the same. With the Dubai population on the increase, the demand for property and with it, the price of property, is only likely to strengthen further. 

As long as this formula remains, this trend should continue, perhaps at a slower pace than we have seen previously, but all the same, the market should continue to enjoy a relatively consistent rate of growth.

Future 

However, it is important to remember that people move to Dubai to make a better life for themselves and their families, and there are some signs that this objective could be jeopardised. 

In recent years; inflation has increased the cost of living at an alarming rate and as larger portions of salary are being spent on food and rent, some families have had to move in together. Saving money is becoming trickier these days and families are waiting years to enrol their children into schools.

Added to that, some residential areas are not developed with children or families in mind and the traffic situation causes some people to set off at 6am to make work on time. All of these elements detract from a healthy family life and are causing some people to re-evaluate their futures.

On the business front, the possibility of VAT being introduced, the introduction of trade unions, the rising cost of labour and materials, the restrictions being placed on labour visas and the looming threat of income tax is giving companies considering Dubai as an option, or already here, food for thought in terms of a long-term strategy.

At the end of the day, if businesses cannot see a bottom line that justifies their being here, they will look for alternative, more favourable locations. 

In either scenario, a migration of people would impact the demand for property and in turn; its value. 

However, the good news and the truth of the matter is that Dubai is a success story like no other and people continue to come here in bulk volumes. It is a city that has radically changed the lives of so many people and by maintaining sensitivity to the needs of its people; I am sure the good times will keep on rolling! 

*An Article by: Ryan Mahoney - Managing Director of Better Homes * :nocrook:


----------



## Naz UK

Oh, Ryan. Of Betterhomes. Impartial then.


----------



## glover

*Third person arrested in Deyaar embezzlement case*

_i bet there are people outside the company who were also involved_
--------------------------------

By Bassam Zaza, Staff Reporter 
Published: April 28, 2008, 08:41
gulfnews

Dubai: A Lebanese sales manager has been arrested in connection with alleged financial irregularities at Deyaar, a Dubai property developer, Public Prosecution sources said on Monday. 

Last week, police arrested a 49-year-old Indian manager in connection with the case. 

Deyaar's Chief Executive Officer Zack Shahin had also been detained in connection with alleged financial irregularities. Deyaar said he subsequently resigned.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ finally this is getting more interesting


----------



## amplesou

*Escrow account*

just recieved letter thru from dsc re gallery villas/canal residence west
we now have a escrow acccount set up as any future payments 
not sure about moneys already paid!
anyway good news!


----------



## Morten_Denmark

*Strange*

Trying to buy a decent 2-bed in the Marina (helping a friend) - was in contact with BH (which I find quite OK to talk to compared to a lot of other agencies). The list I am offered (same thing elsewhere) is very limited (as we know half of the units are not really for sale). In JBR I have to pay 2.7 mill for a decent 2bed (I am not talking any speciel good view). It seems resale is drying out and prices has jumped 500 k overnight - is some mighty sheik buying the marina or did I just have a bad day ?


----------



## AltinD

^^ Have you ever heard of price fixing? :runaway:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

AltinD said:


> ^^ Have you ever heard of price fixing? :runaway:


Why should they be better at this compared to last month ? No, the effect of launching new units at much higher prices are causing this.


----------



## AltinD

^^ Yes but isn;t that price fixing? 

Burj Dubai is selling at 7k, why should I sell at 2k, make it 2.5k this week and next we increase again to 3k ... while filling newspapers with overly optimistic articles about the "huge" demand.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

2 Torch units on bhomes still available for 1250 psf  The rest from 1500 psf.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

AltinD said:


> ^^ Yes but isn;t that price fixing?
> 
> Burj Dubai is selling at 7k, why should I sell at 2k, make it 2.5k this week and next we increase again to 3k ... while filling newspapers with overly optimistic articles about the "huge" demand.


Yes, you are right AltinD. 

But those expensive apartments are really selling even with a modest marketing. Why dont they buy 5 Torch apartments for the price of 1 Burj Place SZR VIEW apartment ? Hell, I would even prefer 2 Torch units - and also I will have the chance to see a glimse of Dubai_Steve's daughter


----------



## AltinD

^^ Because, to be frank, mostly ignorant speculative, late to the game people are buiying them. 

Same happened a couple of years ago with the stock market ... and then it crashed 70% in a few months.


----------



## mackie1964

Here is your chance Morten, for onlyAED1499/sqft you can have one very near to Steve :cheers:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

mackie1964 said:


> Here is your chance Morten, for onlyAED1499/sqft you can have one very near to Steve :cheers:


OK Mackie - please PM me the details. I will recommend this unit to my friend - and if he dont like it - I will try and raise the capital myself :angel1: Alternative I have other apartments we could swop.


----------



## True Blue

Is this the most expensive 1 bed apartment in the marina @ 4239AED/ft2 ?

http://www.alineah.com/apartment/3659/detail.htm


----------



## Morten_Denmark

True Blue said:


> Is this the most expensive 1 bed apartment in the marina @ 4239AED/ft2 ?
> 
> http://www.alineah.com/apartment/3659/detail.htm


No, but same development AED 2,472,000 489 SQF => 5055 psf. Source BH (studio)

Edited : Sorry - didnt see you mentioned 1-bed. I have seen a couple duplex JBR 1-bed - complete seaview - being more expensive - but they were furnished with gold floors and diamant what ever


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Morten_Denmark said:


> OK Mackie - please PM me the details. I will recommend this unit to my friend - and if he dont like it - I will try and raise the capital myself :angel1: Alternative I have other apartments we could swop.



It needs to be a 2bed though !!


----------



## True Blue

Morten_Denmark said:


> No, but same development AED 2,472,000 489 SQF => 5055 psf. Source BH (studio)
> 
> Edited : Sorry - didnt see you mentioned 1-bed. I have seen a couple duplex JBR 1-bed - complete seaview - being more expensive - but they were furnished with gold floors and diamant what ever


There is a market for the most expensive and ostentatious apartments.

Prices in the marina recently have been rising fast as the market matures and the amount of construction lessens. 

Can we expect it to continue growing at 20% year on year?


----------



## Morten_Denmark

True Blue said:


> There is a market for the most expensive and ostentatious apartments.
> 
> Prices in the marina recently have been rising fast as the market matures and the amount of construction lessens.
> 
> Can we expect it to continue growing at 20% year on year?


IMO - If the influx of people continue - then yes - but the rising cost of housing is a treat to the influx. My feeling is that if real estate prices rise much more there are many people which will not afford to buy. But the best places will keep on rising - we can discuss where the best places are - but the "bad" places will start falling in value or prices will in best case go sideways. Next two years should be crazy still I am quite confident.


----------



## Richard Head

Morten_Denmark said:


> IMO - If the influx of people continue - then yes - but the rising cost of housing is a treat to the influx. My feeling is that if real estate prices rise much more there are many people which will not afford to buy. But the best places will keep on rising - we can discuss where the best places are - but the "bad" places will start falling in value or prices will in best case go sideways. Next two years should be crazy still I am quite confident.



........at which point Dubai becomes like every other city which is a major financial and trading hub, where the average Joe can't afford to live in or close to the city, so they live outside, in what is known in London's case as "commuter belt", up to 1.5 hours travelling time to the city. Which is why property in Ajman, RAK etc. is such fantastic value as a long term investment. Real estate prices have never killed the influx of people into London, NYC etc, and will not do so in Dubai either, just that the transport infrastructure will evolve to allow people to live outside the city and travel into the city to work. Granted we're looking 5 - 10 years from now, but the metro is just the tip of the iceberg. Just my $0.02 worth..................


----------



## mission

How can i get a bank account in dubai?

I have tired HSBC,RAK????


----------



## bizzybonita

Could be increasing price of D1 ...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Morten_Denmark said:


> Dont be surprised if I join in very soon in the highest community in the world - I am working on it.


Did you go for it already, I noticed the cheapest Torch resale unit has now been removed from bhomes. Nothing under 1350 or 1400 psf now I think.


----------



## glover

Dubai_Steve said:


> Britons are now the most prolific foreign property owners in Dubai, owning more homes than any other nationality in Dubai.


Source!!! 
i thought they own the highest number of freehold PLOTS (plot size varies), not homes/apartments.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Source is a bit dubious http://www.realestatetv.tv/news/property_for_sale_in_dubai_popular_with_britons-18565834.html



> According to ShelterOffshore.com, people from the UK own more property in the region than any other nationality.


----------



## mackie1964

*Soon we will be able to raise the Flag*

Britons own the most land in Dubai 
The majority of expatriates who live in Dubai hail from the UK, according to a media report.

Emirates Business claimed to have had access to official figures detailing the extent of immigration in the region.

The data showed that 147 people from the UK are now believed to be living in Dubai on a permanent basis.

These people were said to own almost two million square feet of land, placing them ahead of other nationalities including Egyptians, Russians, Indians and Iraqis.

However, Indians headed the list this time last year, which suggests that Dubai is becoming more and more popular.

According to the World Travel & Tourism Council, the government in Dubai has responded positively to its growing popularity by investing in a number of infrastructure improvements. 

As well as boosting its capability to handle lots of tourists, this may also enhance its appeal to future overseas property buyers.


----------



## glover

_here is the full story. it is *plots*, not villas/apartments
_
------------
Britons own most land among Dubai expats
By Hamed Al Sewerky on Thursday, April 10 , 2008
business 24/7

British nationals own the most land in Dubai among all the expatriates living in the emirate, according to sources at the Dubai Lands Department. Emirates Business has learnt that up until yesterday, 147 Britons owned 1,900,000 square feet of land, at a per capita average of 12,925 sq ft. 

Landowners from India occupied the second position, with 125 Indians owning 862,000 sq ft at a per capita average of 6,896 sq ft. Iranians followed in third place, with 111 people owning a plot of land each. Saudis topped the list of landowners in Dubai from the GCC countries, with 29 owning 30 plots of land, which comes to a total of 800,000 sq ft. This gave the Saudis a per capita average ownership figure of 27,586 sq ft, the highest per capita figure of all expatriates.

Kuwait had 25 names on the Dubai landowners’ list, while 23 Omanis owned 27 plots with a total area of 129,000 sq feet – an average of 5,608 sq feet per owner.

Bahraini citizens come next with eight owners.

Among other nationalities, 10 Egyptians and eight Iraqis own land in Dubai.

Russians own 17 plots, while a lone Somali owns one plot of land.

Britons and Indians have traded positions at the top of the list of expatriate landowners for sometime.

While British expats top the list at present, Indians were in the number one position more than a year ago.

Saudis, meanwhile, have maintained their position for almost six years at the top of landowners from the GCC countries. 

UAE nationals continue to hold the most land in Dubai. Their numbers, since the beginning of 2008 until Wednesday, came to 1,512 landowners, owning 162 million sq ft at a per capita average of some 107,142 sq ft. They include 873 men and 639 women.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

:lol: Think that is a mistake



> The data showed that 147 people from the UK are now believed to be living in Dubai on a permanent basis


There are at least 120,000 brits living in Dubai.


----------



## mackie1964

^^147,000 Actually

Soon to be 147,004 + Al + .....


----------



## Imre

mackie1964 said:


> ^^147,000 Actually
> 
> Soon to be 147,004 + Al + .....


are you moving soon?


----------



## glover

you can be sure that the great majority of these plots, it not 100% of them, are owned by investors! a lot of brits see dubai/uae as spain in it's infancy when it comes to real estate investment!


----------



## AltinD

mackie1964 said:


> ^^147,000 Actually
> 
> Soon to be 147,004 + Al + .....


Who's Al? 

I also go by the name Al when I don't feel like having to spell and teach others how to pronounce my full name. :lol:


----------



## Naz UK

It stands for Artificial Intelligence. Like the thinking behind the RTA.


----------



## agod

Me Perhaps...............

Al


----------



## Opus 2009

bizzybonita said:


> Could be increasing price of D1 ...


Prices seem to have gone up significantly - though there is not much of a secondary market at this stage. The developer is now selling the few remaining units at Dhs 3700 per sq foot and I was told that another price increase was imminent to take these to Dhs 4 k psf. I am glad that they got the flooding issue sorted out and that the construction is finally above ground. Lets hope it all works out in the end, a very special project at a great location imo. :cheers:


----------



## jixline

Al gore is british?


----------



## Naz UK

Who's Al Gore?


----------



## cheath

Well it will very shortly be plus another 2 brits. The wife and I move out in July when I take up my new job in the fast paced Dubai property development arena.


----------



## bizzybonita

Judge extends detention of former Deyaar CEO 


Dubai: A Dubai Court judge extended the provisional detention of Deyaar Chief Executive Officer Zack Shahin to 30 days, who was arrested in connection with alleged financial irregularities at Deyaar, a Dubai property developer, Public Prosecution sources said today. 

Deyaar said he subsequently resigned. 

Apparently, Shahin has been moved out of Bur Dubai Police Station. 

A 38-year-old Lebanese sales manager has been arrested in connection with alleged financial irregularities at Deyaar four days back and more arrests are likely, said the sources. 

Last week, police arrested a 49-year-old Indian manager in connection with the case.


----------



## Naz UK

I wonder if Hussein Sajwani and Peter Riddock have ready-packed suitcases and spare toothbrushes. Just in case. You know. You never know.


----------



## bizzybonita

*Dubai realestate analysis (BusinessBay)*

http://www.alineah.com/dubai-realestate-analysis/BusinessBay/Office/213/detail.asp

good one


----------



## bizzybonita

UAE Realty market expected to stabilize with the execution of Strata Law 











The professionally implemented Strata and Facilities Management is widely expected to enhance the quality of life, and investor confidence in the UAE, thereby bringing about more stability in the UAE real estate market.

Dubai, as a part of its streamlining process, is likely to launch a Strata Law soon, which would streamline its local realty market, through adoption of best international practices.

The Strata Management will cover all common facilities shared by both owners and tenants, such as the fire services, parking, lifts, air conditioning, walkways, gymnasiums, pools, gardens and other common property. This is vital in maintaining high-quality living environment, keeping in mind, the health and well-being of all residents, while also maintaining cordial stakeholder relations.

The Chief Executive Officer of BCS Strata Management Services, Peter Crogan, while speaking at the Facilities Management Conference in Dubai, noted that the UAE property market, particularly Dubai, has entered a phase of proper regulatory frameworks and asset management protocols.

The region has witnessed high volume of investment and property boom, with spectacular and extensive developments being launched, the sustainability, of which, could be guaranteed only through professional management of assets, he added


----------



## FWIW

bizzybonita said:


> http://www.alineah.com/dubai-realestate-analysis/BusinessBay/Office/213/detail.asp
> 
> good one


nice find - here is Dubai Marina analysis: http://www.alineah.com/dubai-realestate-analysis/DubaiMarina/Apartment/147/detail.asp


----------



## Naz UK

Whose Strata Law? Is he related to Jude Law? And why are they executing him just to stabilise the realty market?


----------



## bizzybonita

*Here the full story*


We have been advised by the Dubai Lands Department that Implementing Regulations shall be issued in due course and it is expected that many of the concepts referred to in the Strata Law will be dealt with in further detail in the Implementing Regulations.


Below is a summary of the key provisions of the new Strata Law, followed by an unofficial translation of the Strata Law prepared by Al Tamimi & Company.


Registration of Title
Article (23) of Law No. (7) of 2006 Concerning Real Property Registration in the Emirate of Dubai (the "Title Registration Law") envisaged the Strata Law as it provides that an apartment shall be deemed to be a "Real Property Unit" as defined in the Title Registration Law and therefore titles created in accordance with the Strata Law will come under the ambit of the Title Registration Law and the procedures regarding registration in the Real Property Register at the Dubai Lands Department shall apply.


Article (4) of the Title Registration Law applies to ownership of Jointly Owned Property, and provides that: 
UAE and GCC nationals, their wholly owned companies and public joint stock companies may own Real Property situated anywhere in the Emirate of Dubai; and
subject to the Ruler's approval and in designated areas in the Emirate of Dubai as determined by the Ruler, foreigners may be granted the right to freehold ownership without time restrictions or usufruct rights or leasehold rights over a Real Property for a period not exceeding 99 years.


Concepts of Subdivision
The definition of "Jointly Owned Property" provides that this law will cover two concepts of subdivision, namely (1) subdivision within buildings where common areas will be created; and (2) subdivision within conventional methods of horizontal subdivision of land where common areas will be created.


Master Developer's Ownership of Common Areas
From our preliminary discussions with the Dubai Lands Department it is our understanding that Master Developers will have a choice as to whether to retain ownership of all common areas within a Master Community; (ii) retain ownership of some of the common areas within a Master Community; or (iii) not retain any of the common areas within a Master Community.


Where a Master Developer chooses to retain ownership of some of the common areas within a Master Community, the balance of the common areas will become Jointly Owned Property (as defined in the Strata Law). The Jointly Owned Property will be owned by the property owners within the Master Community in undivided shares and the Owners' Association to which these owners are members will be tasked with the administration and management of the Jointly Owned Property.


Where a Master Developer chooses not to retain any of the common areas within a Master Community, then all the common areas will become Jointly Owned Property.


We anticipate that the Implementing Regulations will deal with a fore mentioned issues in further detail.


How many tiers of Jointly Owned Property shall be permitted? 
The Strata Law implies that there will be numerous tiers of Jointly Owned Property within a single strata development. It is our understanding that in practice, a maximum of three tiers will be permitted.


The Implementing Regulations are expected to provide further detail and clarity on these issues.


Building Management Statements
Where there is a mixed use building consisting of, say, a commercial lot and a hotel lot, the Strata Law envisages that a document known as a 'Building Management Statement' must be prepared to document the maintenance and cost sharing arrangements between the lot owners in relation to the building's common facilities. If such Building Management Statement is required, then the Building Management Statement must be registered at the Dubai Lands Department.


The Implementing Regulations will probably describe in further detail the prescribed information to be incorporated in the Building Management Statement and procedures for registration thereof.


Units within a Jointly Owned Property Development
A unit within a strata development and the unit's undivided interest in the common areas will be capable of being sold or mortgaged in favour of a bank.


A unit owner's interest in the common areas cannot be separately disposed of from the unit itself.


A unit owner may lease his unit on condition that the unit owner and tenant remain obliged to comply with the Association Constitution and the Master Community Declaration towards other unit owners, occupiers and the Owners' Association.


Disposal of Units of Jointly Owned Property
A unit co-owned by two or more persons may not be divided amongst the co-owners unless the Dubai Lands Department's approval is obtained.


The Strata Law creates a right of first refusal to purchase another co-owner's share in a unit offered for sale to a non owner. The right of first refusal does not apply to a sale between spouses, lineal ascendants, lineal descendants, brothers or sisters, or their descendants.


The right of first refusal lapses after one month after notification through the Notary Public of the name and address of the third party purchaser and conditions of sale in the event the co-owners fail to agree to the conditions of sale.


If it is proved that the sale to the purchaser was completed on better terms than the terms in the notification sent to co-owners, they may have the right to claim compensation for the damages suffered in the Dubai Courts. 


The Strata Law also specifies the time periods and procedures to be followed in the event the co-owners agree to purchase the property.


Strata Development
If a developer plans to develop its strata development in stages, the developer must disclose such arrangement in the master community declaration. 

The original documents for the site plan, the master community declaration and the Owners' Association constitution must be lodged with the Dubai Lands Department and such documents will be registered with the title deed of the Jointly Owned Property.


A developer is liable for building structural defects up to a ten (10) year period from the completion of the building and liable for defective appliances up to a one (1) year period from the completion of the building.


Owners' Associations
As regards Owners' Associations, the Strata Law provides that:
an Owners' Association will be formed upon the registration at the Dubai Land Department of the first owner (other than the developer) of a Unit in the strata development.

the Owners' Association is a not-forprofit legal entity and has a separate legal existence from its members.


Accordingly, the Owners' Association has the right to sue and be sued in its own capacity.

unpaid service charges can be recovered by the Owners' Association as a debt in Court.

the Owners' Association must insure the building and also maintain public risk insurance to cover against personal injury to owners and occupiers within the strata development and such insurance premiums will form part of the service charges of the Owners' Association.


Payment of Service Charges
Each unit owner shall pay the Owners' Association his share of the annual service fee to cover the cost of the management, operation, maintenance and repair of the common areas. Such fee shall be calculated in proportion to the unit area of the total area of the Jointly Owned Property. The master or sub developer pays his share of service charges with respect to unsold units.


The Owners' Association shall have a lien on every unit for unpaid service fees and any other obligations levied against the unit owner in accordance with the provisions of the Strata Law or the Association Constitution. This right shall exist even when ownership of the unit has been transferred to a new owner.


If the unit owner does not pay his share of service fees or defaults on any of his other obligations, the decision the manager of the Owners' Association takes against the unit owner shall be, after three months of being notified to him through the Notary Public, enforceable by the Execution Judge in any Competent Court. In all cases the affected person may object to the decision within the three month period, and in such event the execution shall be withheld until a decision in the subject of the objection has been made


----------



## High Times

FWIW said:


> nice find - here is Dubai Marina analysis: http://www.alineah.com/dubai-realestate-analysis/DubaiMarina/Apartment/147/detail.asp


Oh my Fu**ing god i've seen it all now.

A real estate league table that looks like a FTSE 100 chart with a ticker bar too. hno:

This is not a good sign of a steady housing/real estate market this is beginning to smell like my local betting shop.

All we need now is the geriatric old fart with a limp and a burning *** hanging out of his mouth with piss stains on his shoes, shouting come Infinity, come on my beauty you can do it girl.


----------



## True Blue

^^ And she probably will :lol:


----------



## IISinbadII

Is there any demand for Office space in JLT? 

What office towers are complete (or near completion). What are the running prices per sq.ft they are selling for......... And what Rent should one expect to get. THANKS.


----------



## ferrari430

Office space in JLT had a steep rise in prices in the last 2 months. Before then it was flat for 6-8 months at around 1300 - 1600 dhs psf. Apparently, the rise was because of clarifications of regulations for registering businesses with DMCC

Now it looks like its anywhere between 1700 - 2100 dhs psf, 2100 being for completed towers like Saba1 and 1700 being for newer towers like Swiss, JBCs, tiffany and 1900s being for near completed like HDS, 1 lake plaza, goldcrest executive.

Rent was between 200 - 250 dhs psf, not sure if rent has risen recently

Another reason for rise in JLT office prices could be because off plan prices for office space in jumeirah village has seen 50% rise in the last year and JLT being a more prime location off SZR had to go up too


----------



## bizzybonita

Naz UK said:


> Whose Strata Law? Is he related to Jude Law? And why are they executing him just to stabilise the realty market?


What is Strata Law? 

The Strata Law will provide a legal mechanism for the transition of jointly held property from the developer to the owners as well as regulations that will ensure the ongoing maintenance of the owner's investment in that asset. In accordance with the new law, owners, through the establishment of an association, will take responsibility for the management of their buildings and communities and common property. The new law will define the rights and responsibilities of the owners' association and each owner and occupier living in these jointly owned properties. The law will also make the provisioning for the long-term maintenance of the buildings and common property mandatory by the introduction of a reserve fund. This is a fund in which owners will be required to contribute, to ensure sufficient capital is raised in the long term, to allow for necessary major works and maintenance of capital assets. This fund will be additional to the already established general fund that takes care of the day-to-day maintenance and management requirements of an owners' association. Owners will have a shared interest and responsibility to maintain their investment. 

What are its regulations? 

While the new law is now in effect, its regulations are yet to be finalised. A draft of the regulations has been issued for discussion purposes among all the stakeholders and it is expected to be finalised soon. The regulations provide for detailed procedures on how the law will operate. They define the establishment of the owners' association, its powers and functions, how its management board is elected, what budgeting and financial reporting is mandatory, how and when the owners' association meetings are conducted, how service charges are calculated and issued, debt recovery procedures, what insurances are mandatory and what records must be kept. 

How does the Strata Law affect developers? 

Developers when preparing "off the plan" sales will have to provide a range of disclosures to prospective buyers. These disclosure statements among other things will include a budget for the general and reserve funds with proposed service charges for a two-year period, a schedule of material finishes for both the common property and the proposed unit, arrangements for the supply of utility services, intended land use within a project, what facilities will be available to owners and occupiers, copies of the proposed Master Community Declaration, which contains the owners' association community rules and estimated dates for completion. The law also requires developers to lodge a Master Community Declaration with the Lands Department to formally register the project. This document provides the owners' association detailed information on the size of the development, the size of the apartments and numbering of apartments. 

How will it affect owners and end-users? 

The purpose of the law is to provide the right regulatory environment to ensure owners and investors in Dubai can act with confidence that there is a regulatory structure in place. The new law will enable owners to participate in the management of their assets to ensure that right management practices are in place.


----------



## IISinbadII

ferrari430 said:


> Office space in JLT had a steep rise in prices in the last 2 months. Before then it was flat for 6-8 months at around 1300 - 1600 dhs psf. Apparently, the rise was because of clarifications of regulations for registering businesses with DMCC
> 
> Now it looks like its anywhere between 1700 - 2100 dhs psf, 2100 being for completed towers like Saba1 and 1700 being for newer towers like Swiss, JBCs, tiffany and 1900s being for near completed like HDS, 1 lake plaza, goldcrest executive.
> 
> Rent was between 200 - 250 dhs psf, not sure if rent has risen recently
> 
> Another reason for rise in JLT office prices could be because off plan prices for office space in jumeirah village has seen 50% rise in the last year and JLT being a more prime location off SZR had to go up too


^^ Thanks for your reply. 

The Rental ads range 200 to 300 /sqft. But most of them are @ 220-230 /sqft. The followings *JLT Office Towers *seems to be complete or near completion:

*Fortune tower 1 
HDS tower 
Indigo tower
Saba tower
One Lake Plaza
Palladium
Madina tower
Goldcrest Executive ?
X2 tower ?*

^^ Which ones of the above are good ones. What should one look for when buying office space. Is 1000 sqft a good size? Thanks


----------



## Hishamds

welcome back Imre , I gotta say that Alarefi needs to be punished for what they are doing, personally I can't face that company and I think I'm giving up ,but please everyone if you have enough funds try to put those liars to trial,and good luck for all of you.


----------



## DUBAILAW

Salim said:


> I suppose I must contact the RERA if KM Properties are breaking the law they should be accountable for it, don't you think so?


As soon as possible.


----------



## glover

there was a definite jump in prices in the marina over the last month or so.

here is an example from my building al-sahab.

a 3 bedroom apartment, 1,897 sf, on the 3rd floor (the pool floor) was listed at Better homes a week ago at around aed 2.6m. today, it's listed at 3.3m.

two months ago, you can easily find 2-beds for under 2.5m. today, you would be lucky to find something in that price.


----------



## glover

*Probe into local realty firms*

_finally, RERA is *really* asserting itself. great news for the market. i especially like the part about cracking down on false advertising!!_
----------------------------
24/7
By Peter Cooper on Monday, May 05, 2008

Four Dubai development companies are being subjected to an "internal audit of transactions", Marwan bin Ghalita, the CEO of Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) told a Dubai Property Group meeting on Sunday. 

"We cannot let people promise and not deliver in Dubai," he said. 

"We want a transparent relationship between parties and have rules and regulations that will be strictly implemented."

He declined to name the four Dubai developers under investigation. 

Last month Damac Properties was involved in a controversy over an attempt to cancel its project Palm Springs on The Palm, Jebel Ali, which has since been reinstated. Rera has a tough job regulating Dubai realty since its creation last July. Now 2,909 real estate agencies are registered and an estimated 4,000 more illegals in the marketplace have until the end of July to register or face fines. 

"From November 1 only licenced agents can advertise property by law," said Bin Ghalita. "We will not tolerate freelance agents."

Rera has also licensed 710 development companies, 1,560 projects and 1,487 brokers since its formation, and opened 476 trust accounts worth more than $1.2 billion (Dh4.4bn) with 33 registered banks. 

"We also want to correct some misleading claims made by developers," said Bin Ghalita. "If developers say they sold out in half an hour, how is that possible? If this is advertised they must show data, and not keep us waiting for a month for it."

In addition, Bin Ghalita said there must be no payment of percentage transfer fees to developers, who are only entitled to claim administration fees for handling such transactions. "Why should developers benefit like this? It is not their business, we do the transfers."

He said buyers and sellers should "refuse to pay extra transfer fees". 

Bin Ghalita said the proper registration fee is a total of two per cent: one per cent for the buyer and one per cent for the seller. "Nobody has the right to charge anything else, and please tell me if they do," he added.


----------



## yasinbiz

ferrari430 said:


> Office space in JLT had a steep rise in prices in the last 2 months. Before then it was flat for 6-8 months at around 1300 - 1600 dhs psf. Apparently, the rise was because of clarifications of regulations for registering businesses with DMCC
> 
> Now it looks like its anywhere between 1700 - 2100 dhs psf, 2100 being for completed towers like Saba1 and 1700 being for newer towers like Swiss, JBCs, tiffany and 1900s being for near completed like HDS, 1 lake plaza, goldcrest executive.
> 
> Rent was between 200 - 250 dhs psf, not sure if rent has risen recently
> 
> Another reason for rise in JLT office prices could be because off plan prices for office space in jumeirah village has seen 50% rise in the last year and JLT being a more prime location off SZR had to go up too


gold crest executive still available in the market for about 1500 or so!, saba tower being 2100 AED would take quite a time to sell.


----------



## bizzybonita

Four developers under investigation




Four property companies are being investigated by Dubai’s real estate watchdog over what appears to be the non-delivery of projects, the regulator revealed on Sunday.

Speaking at a Dubai Property Group meeting, Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) CEO Marwan bin Ghalita said four firms were currently being subjected to an "internal audit of transactions”, UAE daily Emirates Business 24/7 reported on Monday. 

“We cannot let people promise and not deliver in Dubai”, the newspaper quoted bin Ghalita as saying.

Bin Ghalita declined to name the developers under investigation or give further details.

The authority was seeking a transparent relationship between parties and rules and regulations would be “strictly implemented”, bin Ghalita said.

Rera was also addressing a range of other issues, including developers making misleading claims or charging percentage transfer fees when they were only entitled to claim administration fees, the newspaper said.

The announcement is the latest blow to the emirate’s real estate market, which is reeling from recent controversies surrounding high-profile developers Deyaar and Damac Properties. 

Deyaar is being investigated for alleged financial irregularities, with four people detained so far by Dubai Public Prosecution, including former Deyaar CEO Zack Shanin.

RELATED: Deyaar CEO detained, faces investigation

Meanwhile, Damac caused an international investor storm in April after cancelling its Palm Springs project on the Palm Jebel Ali five years after launch. Infuriated investors were threatening legal action until Damac reversed its decision.

RELATED: Damac will continue Palm Springs project, says chairman

It is not known whether either Deyaar or Damac are among the four companies under investigaiton.


----------



## Hanna

bizzybonita said:


> Four developers under investigation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four property companies are being investigated by Dubai’s real estate watchdog over what appears to be the non-delivery of projects, the regulator revealed on Sunday.
> 
> Speaking at a Dubai Property Group meeting, Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) CEO Marwan bin Ghalita said four firms were currently being subjected to an "internal audit of transactions”, UAE daily Emirates Business 24/7 reported on Monday.
> 
> “We cannot let people promise and not deliver in Dubai”, the newspaper quoted bin Ghalita as saying.
> 
> Bin Ghalita declined to name the developers under investigation or give further details.
> 
> The authority was seeking a transparent relationship between parties and rules and regulations would be “strictly implemented”, bin Ghalita said.
> 
> Rera was also addressing a range of other issues, including developers making misleading claims or charging percentage transfer fees when they were only entitled to claim administration fees, the newspaper said.
> 
> The announcement is the latest blow to the emirate’s real estate market, which is reeling from recent controversies surrounding high-profile developers Deyaar and Damac Properties.
> 
> Deyaar is being investigated for alleged financial irregularities, with four people detained so far by Dubai Public Prosecution, including former Deyaar CEO Zack Shanin.
> 
> RELATED: Deyaar CEO detained, faces investigation
> 
> Meanwhile, Damac caused an international investor storm in April after cancelling its Palm Springs project on the Palm Jebel Ali five years after launch. Infuriated investors were threatening legal action until Damac reversed its decision.
> 
> RELATED: Damac will continue Palm Springs project, says chairman
> 
> It is not known whether either Deyaar or Damac are among the four companies under investigaiton.



Hi Bizzy


Don't tell me Damac is one of the companies under scrutiny who would believe it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cheers:


It's ok Damac have a lot of big hitters in the Goverenment and the Royal Family they will never go down (and that's the truth) not yet !


----------



## Smokeey

So is anyone going to Cityscape in Abu Dhabi next week?


----------



## dubaigreen

*cityscape*

Yes, I am, at least to see the AD 2030 Plan come to (more) reality and to see with my own eyes that prices will go up with 20-30% that everyone is telling me will happen. Will you bring you cheque-book? Might be dangerous, before you know, you made a down-payment after seeing all the nice polished demo´s of the new plans 

Have fun and see you there.


----------



## smshah

^^ I am going, going to also take my big fat cheque book, ready to make lots of cheques payable to Damac , hehehehhe:banana::banana::banana::banana:


----------



## Smokeey

I would love to go but I think I've left it too late to get time off work, unless I pull a week-long sicky next week 

Do you think there will be lots of new launches and/or pre-launches there? That would be my primary reason for going (e.g. would love to get some apartments in Tameer Towers on Reem Island, which I hear will have a few more floors released for first sale). 

However if I dont go will I still be able to get hold of any apartments they have for sale on the day? (E.g. could I reserve over the phone) or do I have to be there in person?


----------



## Elb

Hey Guys,
Just had a meeting with the legal consultant in Dubai Land Department, He personally is having major doubts about the oreifi sale and confirmed that although the land is now registered to ISKAN the owner still is not providing the sale contract to them. they are still investigating the matter. He confirmed that lots of owners didn't agree terms with AlAreifi and they are waiting for the land department to finish their investigation (more than 20!). He mentioned that the same thing happened with DAMAC very recently and they were forced to continue with the project. Also the Land Department will stop any transaction on the land\units so that no resell can be made by the new owner .

Went to the site and the project is very much underway. It reached the 22nd floor till today. The Oreifi and the contractor's signs are still there. I asked if any new company\contractor or any change happened and the workers said everything is the same.

Also visited a lawyer and he gave me some advice on this matter and I think I won't be late on doing that. I am glad I didn't take my cheque.

I know there are a lot of owners that still hold units that are not aware of this site. But for the ones who are; can you please just post a reply so we know how many of us are here.

Thanks


----------



## Sady

Hi there,

I sold my appartment in the UK last year and I am pretty sure Alareifi did not get hold of the guy who bought it as they have phoned me about three times and asked me to check if I can find his contact details. I told them I did not save his phone number as there was no use for it.

Good Luck!


----------



## IISinbadII

Smokeey said:


> So is anyone going to Cityscape in Abu Dhabi next week?


Cityscape at Abu Dhabi, what are the dates and is admission free?


----------



## rexdmx

^^ free entry to the projects like usual in dubai...
they should be other exclusive entries too though..


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> Cityscape at Abu Dhabi, what are the dates and is admission free?


Dates are 13-15 May. Admission is free and you can register online at www.cityscapeabudhabi.com.


----------



## glover

i am trying to organize a meeting of all unit owners in al-sahab to prepare for forming a homeowners association. the condo/strata law cam into force april 1, 2008, and will be fully implemented once RERA issues the executive bylaws within 3 months.

i urge all homeowners/investors in dubai to do the same in their buildings. its time for developers to act like temporary management companies when dealing with unit owners instead of treating us like renters!

here is a link to the translation of the law.

http://archive.gulfnews.com/images/08/01/29/property_law.pdf


----------



## ferrari430

Does anyone now whether there will be private sales at the cityscape exhibition or is it just to showcase developers projects


----------



## Rob Timpie

Ali,

Does your studio (European building) have canal view? What's the apartment number, area and what's your price?


----------



## Rob Timpie

By the way, I'm sales agent and investor.
www.dubai-palaces.com


----------



## glover

*trump tower apartments are now going for Dh12,000 ($3,267) psf*

"Trump International Hotel & Tower has barely broken ground on Palm Jumeirah, but pre-sales of the luxury residences have already topped those at Burj Dubai, a company official said.

Prices at several of the more than 50 presold apartments have risen above Dh12,000 ($3,267) a square foot, said Donald Trump Jnr, an executive vice president at the Trump Organisation and Donald Trump’s eldest son. That is a record, according to data from CB Richard Ellis, a property research and brokerage firm. The highest price in Dubai to date was at the Armani residences at the Burj Dubai, which saw prices as high as Dh10,500 a square foot."

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080507/BUSINESS/789426427/1042&profile=1042


----------



## Imre

glover said:


> "Trump International Hotel & Tower has barely broken ground on Palm Jumeirah, but pre-sales of the luxury residences have already topped those at Burj Dubai, a company official said.
> 
> Prices at several of the more than 50 presold apartments have risen above Dh12,000 ($3,267) a square foot, said Donald Trump Jnr, an executive vice president at the Trump Organisation and Donald Trump’s eldest son. That is a record, according to data from CB Richard Ellis, a property research and brokerage firm. The highest price in Dubai to date was at the Armani residences at the Burj Dubai, which saw prices as high as Dh10,500 a square foot."
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080507/BUSINESS/789426427/1042&profile=1042



VIP launch price was 8000 dhs/sqft, after 10000 ...


----------



## DaYFox

Prices are just insane... I will soon offer my BB properties for 5000AED/sqfet -i am quite sure that I will find someone who's interested/buys just because its expensive :bash:


----------



## Tractor

... more expensive than Knightsbridge, London. Now I am sure there's a bubble!


----------



## Naz UK

Not if the very residents of the likes of Knightsbridge, London are the ones doing the current high-end buying in Dubai.


----------



## glover

trump towers are a special case. they are expensive anywhere in the world, let alone on the "glamorous" palm. they should not be viewed as an indication of overpriced market.


----------



## Naz UK

I wonder if the next Apprentice will be given the job of overseeing the Palm's project.


----------



## High Times

^^

Someone has to pay for Donalds hair stylist


----------



## Opus 2009

*Al Majara complex*

Does anyone know what price per sf a marina facing one bed would command? Lower floor apartment (5 - 10 floor of majara 1).

I have heard prices moving up to the 2000 psf mark in the marina but unsure if that is for the newer developments such as the marina promenade or across the board. The majara complex is pretty well situated flanked by the Yatch club on one side, and the marina mall on the other and with direct staircase access to the Marina walk.


----------



## hasher_69

I have bought an apartment in Santevil, BBay.
I had an offer on it at AED.1650 per sq. ft. quite out of the blue!!
However on looking at other prices in the area this seems on the low side.
I thought hat santevil was meant to be one of the best , high spec and all that.
If I sell there does not seem much else around to re-invest in.
Any one have any thoughts on this, maybe it is better to keep for 6-12 months perhaps the price will then be around AED2200 per sq. ft.


----------



## bizzybonita

Damac & Hilal Al Zarooni near pact on HAZ Towers 


May 17, 2008 5:05:31 PM By zq [Show Printable Version] 

Confusion over the Haz Towers project in Business Bay may be nearing an end as both Damac and Hilal Al Zarooni will have to sign an agreement by next week, according to Land Department officials.

Emad Eldin Farouq, legal counsel for Dubai Land department, said, "There is a settlement agreement that both parties have to sign. They have no choice." The signing has so far been delayed due to a possible second option.

The Haz towers project was launched July 8, 2007, after Damac bought it from Dubai Properties before selling it on to Hilal Al Zarooni. The cause for the delay is unclear but Eldin Farouq says it is due to the reservation agreement. "Damac blames Zarooni for breaking the reservation agreement. Zarooni was meant to sell the building after approval." 

However, Damac had received no authority for the floor plans or marketing of Haz Tower, according to official documents received by Gulf News. "Damac didn't have approval from Zoning Authority for the floor plan and elevations for Plot BB.B.01.040 [Haz tower plot].

"Damac has not taken any approval for marketing any tower on the above plot. Damac, owner of plot BB.B.01.040, has not got any approval to start selling the tower or units in the plot which need bank guarantee first to be provided to Dubai Properties." Last week, a Damac employee said that the Haz towers project is "on hold, according to a statement by the chairman".

However, Niall McLoughlin, senior vice-president of corporate communications at Damac, denied this. "Haz towers is going ahead. It would be inappropriate for me to further comment on Haz towers. As you know, it is sub-judice," McLoughlin said in an email to Gulf News. Another Damac employee said any queries should be directed to Hilal Al Zarooni.

Investors are becoming increasingly frustrated as there appears to be no reason why the project shouldn't go ahead. Hilal Al Zarooni said, "We're waiting for the Land department to give their answer. They said it would be next week."

However, investors are losing confidence in the Land Department as they have now had the complaint for over six months. Eldin Farouq said yesterday that "the chapter will be closed next week."

hno:hno:hno:


----------



## rexdmx

Morrismarina said:


> It isn't that expensive...........this report is just absolute rubbish.........the figures are all over the place. Must be written by a Russian estate agent trying to offload some of his stock. :lol:
> 
> I've read a few reports recently citing Moscow as the 4th most expensive City in Europe so no way it is the world's most expensive. God knows where they've got this information from. They're saying Moscow is 130% more expensive than London !! Ridiculous !! The majority of reports ackowledge that London is the world's most expensive property market.
> 
> According to the graph Mumbai is more expensive than London. :hilarious
> 
> UK property is down 2 -3% at best this year as stated in the Halifax and Nationwide monthly surveys. (These are two of the largest UK mortgage lenders). UK property is only down -0.9% over the last year according to the Halifax's April housing price survey. God knows where they get a 30% fall from.



actually moscow is quite expensive...have you been there morris?


----------



## smussuw

^^ yes it is the most expensive in the world.


----------



## Morrismarina

rexdmx said:


> actually moscow is quite expensive...have you been there morris?



No I haven't been to Moscow but it is one of the places I'd love to visit.


----------



## carpetking

I dont like Moskow,i love Dubai :scouserd:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

*Real estate to increase 100% within 12 months*

Ok Guys - I know what we say about Ameinfo - but I would still suggest that you hold on to your property/properties in Dubai for a little longer. 

http://www.ameinfo.com/157182.html


House prices up 15% in two months and could double

The price of oil spiked to $128 a barrel last week and has been taking Dubai house prices up with it. Even the most cursory survey of price changes over just the past two months shows 10%-15% increases across the board. This is probably the highest rate of change in Dubai property prices since the modern freehold revolution began in 2002.
United Arab Emirates: 6 hours, 55 minutes ago

Rising house prices are expected to accelerate 


In the US, the collapse of house prices since mid-2006 has been followed by the sub-mortgage crisis since last August. The policy response from the Federal Reserve has been to lower interest rates dramatically. This will allow banks to recoup their losses by increasing the spread between borrowing and lending charges, and gradually put a floor under house prices. 

This dramatic loosening of monetary policy has had the nasty side-effect of stirring up commodity price inflation, most particularly in the oil market. For an oil-exporting country like the UAE, this means huge additional liquidity is flooding the banking sector with money supply rising at 37%. 


Dollar peg
At the same time the UAE has its currency pegged to the US dollar so the nation has to track US interest rates downwards. Hence you have interest rates falling at a time of rising inflation, in short very high negative real interest rates. 

That means the economy is effectively paying you to borrow money. So is it any surprise that there has been a huge dislocation of funds into real estate, further increasing upward pressure on prices? 

This is not over yet by a long way. What message does a gain of 10%-15% in two months send to the marketplace? What greater encouragement do investors need when alternative investments all over the world look sick? 

Well, how long will this last? Price gains of this intensity are not usually sustainable for long. But a 50%-100% increase in property values over the next six to 12 months is quite possible. After that the market would move sideways awaiting confirmation of its optimism. 


Oil prices
Now with Goldman Sachs predicting an oil price spike of $150-$200 within the next 18 months that would suggest very much high property prices are obtainable and will be sustainable at least within that timeframe. 

And let us not forget the supply side argument either. UBS has forecast that new property supply will begin to impact on the Dubai market by 2010, and if that came along with a downshift in oil prices – perhaps due to a global recession – then that would finally signal the correction. 

But not before house prices reached very much higher levels than we see in the market today, with even observers from the world’s most highly priced property markets becoming shocked by prices in Dubai. Currently they still find the market good value.


----------



## Salameer

^^
15% jump in 2 months and 100% in 12 months!!!:lol:

If this does happen, which I doubt very much, it will not be the same for all projects.

As an investor from UK, I have seen my investments drop by 5%. That is due to exchange rates. hno:


----------



## ferrari430

smussuw said:


> ^^ yes it is the most expensive in the world.


No, London is the most expensive - I had posted the article below a few months ago


London has beaten Tokyo, Hong Kong and New York to be crowned the most expensive city in the world, according to the Knight Frank Prime International Residential Index.
Prime, let’s be clear, means the poshest and most upmarket neighborhoods – the kind of neighbourhoods where Russian billionaires shell out eight figure sums for a luxury pad and a bargain is something with just six figures on the price tag. 
The index compared capital values, rents and investment yields in 70 prime international markets and concluded that London will burn a bigger hole in your pocket that any other city on the planet. 
Prime City Markets

But London property, which averaged £2,300 per square foot, was the most expensive, beating Monaco (£2,190 per sq ft) to the top spot, with New York (£1,600 per sq ft) in third.
However, while London was the priciest, Russia, China and India recorded the largest gains. These countries notched up massive annual price growth of over 40 per cent due to burgeoning economic development.
Moscow, indeed, features as the eleventh most expensive city (£770 per sq foot) and Knight Frank tip it to topple London in ten years time. Other cities tipped for success include St Petersburg, Delhi, Mumbai and Beijing. 
Town or Country Markets
Outside of the prime city markets, France and Italy dominated the table for most expensive town or country markets, sharing all of the top ten spots between them.
France's St Jean Cap Ferrat emerged as the most exclusive of these prime markets with a value of £1,896 per sq ft. 
It was followed by locations such as the Costa Smeralda, Sardinia (£1,478 per sq ft), locations favoured by second homeowners or renowned for their sunny climate or winter sport reputation.
Over the next two years, UK commuter regions such as Oxfordshire and Berkshire, polling sixteenth and eighteenth respectively, are forecast to reach double-digit price growth as investors and buyers stretched for affordability move out of the Capital.
In addition, Eastern European countries are predicted to make an impact over the next two to three years - Croatian prices, says the report, have already started to rival parts of France and Spain.
Likewise, the Brazilian market has been tipped for good things, as it has been demonstrating price growth similar to that of Russia, India and China.


----------



## Dune

*Property Management Companies in Dubai*

I have an apartment coming due for completion in Aug in Dubai and am interested in renting it out and have the following questions:

-Which Dubai agency would you recommend to take care of the leasing, rent collection, maintenance, etc. (I want a "hands off" type of deal where they take care of everything).

-What are the current charges levied by agencies to manage single units?

-Any other thoughts on rental agencies?

Any info/opinions would be sincerely appreciated (either via post or pm me direct).

Thanks


----------



## Imre

new Nakheel project at the Waterfront

Badrah

pre launch on Sunday,prices:

studio 600.000
1b/r 840.000
2b/r 1.2 m
3b/r 1.6m
townhouse 2-3 b/r from 1.6m


----------



## Imre

^^ thanks for DXBFan



DXBFan79 said:


> This would be the fastest revision of price by Nakheel. Here are the new prices:
> 
> Studio 470 sqft from AED 680K
> 1bdr – 655 sqft from AED978K
> 2 bdr 907 sqft from AED1.2m
> 3bdr 1286 sqft from AED1.8m
> 2 bdr t/house 1,179 sqft from AED1.88m
> 3bdr t/house 1.638 sqft from AED 2.2m


----------



## IISinbadII

Imre said:


> new Nakheel project at the Waterfront
> 
> Badrah
> 
> pre launch on Sunday,prices:
> 
> studio 600.000
> 1b/r 840.000
> 2b/r 1.2 m
> 3b/r 1.6m
> townhouse 2-3 b/r from 1.6m


When will this project complete?


----------



## was2103

Imre said:


> new Nakheel project at the Waterfront
> 
> Badrah
> 
> pre launch on Sunday,prices:
> 
> studio 600.000
> 1b/r 840.000
> 2b/r 1.2 m
> 3b/r 1.6m
> townhouse 2-3 b/r from 1.6m


where can we get more info on these?


----------



## Naz UK

This is Nakheel's attempt at building around 45,000 "middle-income" units, as part of Waterfront City


----------



## bizzybonita

was2103 said:


> where can we get more info on these?


Palm Canal Towers plan for Waterfront
Saturday, 08 March 2008


DEVELOPING NICELY: Madinat Al Arab is just one component of the Dubai Waterfront project.


Nasa Multiplex has won a contract from Nakheel to build a six-tower project at Dubai Waterfront.

The project, called the Palm Canal Towers, will be spread over 600,000m2.


Although construction began last week, the project will not be officially launched for sale until June. The move is part of Nakheel's strategy to avoid ‘off-plan' sales.


*The contract is one of several recently awarded at Dubai Waterfront. Wade Adams won a civil works contract for both the Veneto and Badrah components of the project, while Mammut Group is building 1,042 apartments and 146 townhouses at Badrah*.

Matt Joyce, managing director, Dubai Waterfront, declined to give individual contract values but the work is part of an estimated US $3.2 billion (AED12 billion) package of contracts to be awarded in the first half of this year.

Further contracts will be issued for infrastructure and utilities work and the construction of four intersections. Joyce added that designs are also being drawn up for Badrah Gate Commercial Towers.

Dubai Waterfront will be made up of an inland component and six reclaimed islands.

"We're currently reclaiming land at a rate fast enough to fill London's Wembley Stadium each month," said Joyce.

Other components of the project include Madinat Al Arab, Canal District and Waterfront City.

Construction is underway in districts B and C of Madinat Al Arab, including Omran, an accommodation complex that will eventually house 60,000 labourers.

The Palm Cove Canal and three 160m canal bridges are also under construction.

Samsung, Dutco Balfour Beatty and Emirates Road Contracting are among the other contractors involved in the project.

Most of the project will be in the hands of third-party developers, while Nakheel will develop the rest.

"Any developer who buys a plot of land will have to abide by the Design Control Regulations (DCRs) set by Nakheel," said Joyce. "So we're acting as a regulator as well as a masterdeveloper.

The development plans to accommodate a population of 1.5 million when complete.

Joyce expects 60% of this population to come from growth-drivers within Dubai Waterfront - which will be twice the size of Hong Kong Island - and 40% from Dubai itself.

"The government here has capital to invest in infrastructure, and as long as this continues then the population will grow and job opportunities will be created. People want to live where they have opportunities and lifestyle and this is what Dubai is creating," said Joyce.

And there's no reason why Dubai and Dubai Waterfront can't achieve this; as the government has the capacity to invest in infrastructure.

R


----------



## Ali_Syed

Dubai Sports City has once again increased the prices for units in this development. May be due to City Scape going in Abu Dhabi these days. The 1 bed apartments now start at 1.4M and 2 bed start at exactly 2.0M AED... Check their website www.cr.ae


----------



## yasir_hilali

Elb said:


> I know there are a lot of owners that still hold units that are not aware of this site. But for the ones who are; can you please just post a reply so we know how many of us are here.


We are 90 owners who haven't settled with Areifi yet, Dubai Land and many of us owners are placing pressure on Areifi lately. We should hear from Dubai Land very soon.
Latest Areifi offers have reached this level… Original Unit price + 45%

I advice you to stay in touch with Dubai Land as often as possible.


----------



## Imre

IISinbadII said:


> When will this project complete?


completion date is funny , as always... end 2009:bash:


----------



## Doctor_UK

*20:80*

dear all

i am trying to find off plan projects offering 20:80 payment plan (20% now and 80% on completion).... developers finance that is...

reading through discussions in previous threads, i have found the following *abu dhabi *projects offering 20:80

hydra towers
marina square
marina blue 
ocean terrace

can you please list such current projects in *dubai*, if you know of any...

thanks a million... 




...


----------



## nad2446

I am pleased to say that i am one of the 90 owners which own a apartment in Al Areifi Marina. 

I have been following this site for the last few months. for the last few weeks everybody has quite down, it was starting to worry me until yasir sent the good news that the developers are under high pressure and they have increased the offer to 45% on top.

keep the good work up, hope the developers give in very soon.


----------



## mission

hi all

Does anyone have a number for emirates bank that i can get through to there website is rubbish?


----------



## Naz UK

Emirates Bank

EB UAE Branch Locations

Dubai Main Branch
Beniyas Road, P O Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 226 4302

Al Souk
Al Falah Road, P O Box 11954, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 353 0630

Al Maktoum
Al Maktoum Road, P O Box 52088, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 227 6987

Beniyas Square
Beniyas Square, P O Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 221 3489

Al Karama
Hermitage Building
Next to General Post Office
Zabeel Road, Al Karama, P O Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 335 8782

Al Karama Shopping Complex Br.
Karama Shopping Complex, P O Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 334 6575

Al Ramoul Branch
P.O. Box 33115, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 285 2763

Al Satwa
Al Satwa Main Road, P O Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 349 4495

Jumeirah
Al Wasl Road, P O Box 11909, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 349 5453

Al Qiyadah
Al Ittihad Road, P O Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone : + 971 4 316 0316
Fax : + 971 4 262 5742

Galleria
The Galleria Shopping Mall, P O Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 272 0126

Al Ras
Old Baladiya Road, P O Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 225 3263

Jebel Ali Free Zone
Jebel Ali Free Zone Main Gate, P O Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 881 5551
Fax: + 971 4 881 5545

Sharjah
Immigration Road, P O Box 25090, Sharjah
Telephone: + 971 6 573 3300
Fax: + 971 6 573 0077

World Trade Center
World Trade Centre Complex, P O Box 11909, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 331 0387

Umm Suqeim
Spinneys - Al Wasl Road, P O Box 11909, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 394 0010

Dubai International Airport
Arrivals Terminal, 
Immigration Hall,
Departure Level 1,
P O Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 224 5327
Fax: +971 4 226 7718

Al Shindagha Market
Al Ghubaiba road, P O Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: + 971 4 393 7166
Fax: + 971 4 393 7478

AL Quoz Branch
Showroom No.1, Umm Suqeim building
Near 3rd Interchange, P O Box 11909, Dubai
Tel: + 971 4 316 0316
Fax: + 971 4 338 0292

Mankhool
Nashwan Building , Next to EPPCO Station, Mankhool Road
P.O. Box 2923 , Dubai
Telephone: +971 4 316 0316
Fax: +971 4 398 6242

Tower Branch
"The Tower", Sheikh Zayed Road
P.O. Box 2923 , Dubai
Telephone: +971 4 316 0316
Fax: +971 4 332 0990

Sharjah Industrial Area
National Paints Roundabaout,
Sharjah Industrial Area
P.O. Box 44470 , Sharjah 
Telephone: +971 6 534 5577
Fax: +971 6 534 6006

Used Car Market, Al Aweer

Dubai Internet City
Building No.3, Ground Floor
P.O. Box 2923 , Dubai
Telephone: +971 4 391 0841
Fax: +971 4 391 8726

Ras Al Khaimah
Al Muntasir Road,
Sheikh Omar bin Saqr Al Qasmi Building
P.O. Box 12132, Ras Al Khaimah
Telephone: +971 7 227 2800
Fax: +971 7 227 3395

Fujairah
Hamad Bin Abdullah Street
P.O. Box 1472, Fujairah
Telephone: +971 9 222 2114
Fax: +971 9 222 2115

Qusais
Al Maidoor Complex
Near Dubai Grand Hotel,
Damascus Street, Qusais
P.O. Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: +971 4 261 1929
Fax: +971 4 261 1813

Ibn Battuta Mall
Parking lot #3 between Geant & Andalusia Entrance 
P.O.Box 2923, Dubai 
Retail Telephone: +971 4 3669860 
Fax: +971 4 3669862

Electra Branch
AL BALUCHI TOWER (Ground + Mezzanine floor)
Near Le Meridian Hotel (Opposite KFC) (Beside Dana Hotel)
Electra Street, Abu Dhabi
Telephone : + 971 2 645 5151 
Fax: + 971 2 644 4627

Najda Branch
Al Wathba Insurance Building (Ground + Mezzanine floor)
Behind Al Masood Automobile (Nissan), Al Najda Street, 
P.O. Box 40355, Abu Dhabi
Telephone: +971 2 677 1919
Fax: +971 2 677 1918

Mussafah Branch
Block No 7, showroom No. 24, 25, 26 & 27, 
Mussafah Street,SANAYA, NEAR KFC
Industrial Area, Mussafah, Abu Dhabi 
P.O. Box 91250 , Abu Dhabi, UAE
Telephone: + 971 2 555 5303
Fax: + 971 2 555 9398 

Al Ain Branch
Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Street
Planning Roundabout
P.O. Box 1481 , Al Ain
Telephone: +971 3 751 0077
Fax: +971 3 751 1300

Dubai Airport Free Zone Branch
Transguard Emirates Securities Building
P.O. Box 2923, Dubai
Telephone: +971 4 299 0990
Fax: +971 4 2994965

Khalidiya Branch
Al Muhairy Centre
Zayed the 1st Street Al Khalidiya
P.O. Box 34543, Abu Dhabi
Telephone: +971 2 631 9696
Fax: +971 2 631 8040

D'YA WANT FRIES WITH THAT?


----------



## AltinD

^^ He's not FRENCH for god sake ... give him his chips (he can arrange his own fish in tar souse)


----------



## IISinbadII

*UAE residents get time to prepare for VAT*

By Saifur Rahman, Business Editor
Published: May 27, 2008, 00:06

Dubai: The introduction of the value added tax (VAT), expected early next year, will depend on the government's preparedness as well as the "taxpayers' readiness", a senior government official said.

"We are working on it and will soon be ready for implementation. The entire country will have to be ready for this," Abdul Rahman Al Saleh, executive director of Dubai Customs, told Gulf News on Monday evening. "It will depend on the government's readiness as well as the taxpayers' readiness."

Al Saleh told Reuters on Monday that *the government has postponed the introduction of VAT from late 2008 to early 2009. "We were planning for the last quarter of 2008 but we have put it back to the first quarter of 2009*," he was quoted as saying.

The GCC (Gulf Cooperation Council) states entered into a common customs union in 2003, after standardising the import duties largely at five per cent. *Initially, VAT is expected to replace the customs duty and start at a very low tax level*.

"The introduction of the VAT is a federal government decision. We will, of course, give the people enough time for this after we get ready for it administratively," Al Saleh added.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/General/10216460.html


----------



## meridiansol

How about financing for non residents. I have a property which is 80% paid and I would like to finance the last 20%. Any takes on this.


----------



## Maha

^^ It would probably be hard; unless the developer retains the deed of the property in his name until you pay up.


----------



## Monument

meridiansol said:


> How about financing for non residents. I have a property which is 80% paid and I would like to finance the last 20%. Any takes on this.


Very simple - go to Amlek or Tamweel - they will give up to 70% financing for non-residents - depending on circumstances. And you would only be asking for 20%.

However you have to produce a lot of paperwork such as proof on income, bank account statements, credit report from a credit agency in your country, tax returns in your country, etc. Nothing unusual but a lot of it.


----------



## mission

Naz 

I cant get through mate, its all goes through vm?


----------



## Naz UK

Just email me your enquiry, the reason for the call and your bank account details.. I shall call them for you on your behalf and then email you the outcome.

Cheers.

P.S. Would you like a 0% balance transfer free for the first 4 months?


----------



## mission

Naz UK said:


> Just email me your enquiry, the reason for the call and your bank account details.. I shall call them for you on your behalf and then email you the outcome.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> P.S. Would you like a 0% balance transfer free for the first 4 months?



Naz i maybe a bit thick but i cant find there e-mail address on there site?

Please provide..... hno:


----------



## carpetking

@David

Amlak eMail : http://www.amlakfinance.com/html/index2.php?option=com_content&task=emailform&id=224&itemid=237


----------



## London21

meridiansol said:


> How about financing for non residents. I have a property which is 80% paid and I would like to finance the last 20%. Any takes on this.


I did the same afew months ago through Amlak. You should get the finance subject to status, but it takes time + they need alot of info from overseas customers


----------



## AltinD

Naz UK said:


> Just email *me *your enquiry, the reason for the call and your bank account details.. *I shall call them for you on your behalf *and then email you the outcome.
> 
> Cheers.





mission said:


> Naz i maybe a bit thick but i cant find *their *e-mail address on *their *site?
> 
> Please provide..... hno:


I will leave the comments open ...


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai construction blighted by delays


by Lynne Roberts on Sunday, 25 May 2008 











SLOW PROGRESS: A handful of the 4,000 construction projects underway in Dubai will be completed to deadline, experts say. (Getty Images)The construction industry in Dubai is blighted by red tape, shortages of materials and a lack of skilled workers, with just one in five projects set to finish on time, buildings experts said on Saturday.

A handful of the 4,000 projects currently in progress would be completed to schedule as residential and commercial developments compete with infrastructure projects for the same resources, builders told UAE daily The National.

“Only one in five [projects] are being completed on time,” said managing director of the Alec building firm Kez Taylor, adding a reluctance by clients to make difficult decisions was a major factor in delays. 

“Because of bureaucracy, nobody wants to stick their head out and make a decision,” he said. “But it is vital that the client takes the lead.”

More than 90% of projects in the emirate are two months late, said Emil Rademeyer from research firm Proleads.

“I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a project being handed over early,” he said, adding that late design changes hindered projects across the region with a shortage of quality contractors affecting standards in construction.

Delays in connecting power, water supplies and telecommunications also hamper developments, while problems were also caused by culture clash between foreign and local firms, according to the newspaper.


----------



## mission

AltinD said:


> I will leave the comments open ...


Naz

Okay, you can take the piss?

I am losing my mind, someone please tell me the e-mail address :bash:


----------



## was2103

mission said:


> Naz
> 
> Okay, you can take the piss?
> 
> I am losing my mind, someone please tell me the e-mail address :bash:


Dude, Emirates Bank blows. Why are you bound to them. Consider HSBC who is also crap but less crap than all the rest of the crap banks out here.


----------



## London2Manila

*Value of 1 bed flat in Business Bay*

Hey, 

Anyone here think they are better than BetterHomes?

I m trying to get a valuation from BetterHomes on my apartment in Churchill Residency. However, they must be doing to well, as they ignore my emails.

The details are:

20th Floor
Non Lake View 
813 sqft
Car space
1 bedroom with balcony
Deyaar
Churchill Residency
Business Bay

Still under construction.

Any thoughts ?


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ agents in Dubai are very busy people. They don't have time to answer calls, let alone reply to e-mails. You can check gulfnews on-line to see what similar units in your tower selling for. This would give you a rough idea. 
good luck.


----------



## blackberry2k

Guys, do you see the ad in gulfnews every day from dynasty zarauni. there is a metro station planned right in the center of Queue Point Liwan. The pricies are going up like anything. Current developer price is 1000 compared to 720 in dec 07.


----------



## Wannaberich

HT from the little I know the UK banks panicked because of what was happening in the states.Some of them were personally involved.It wasn't because people were defaulting on their mortgage payments.I'm not aware of loads of re-posessions.So had the s.... not hit the fans in the States then surely over here nothing would have changed?
Given the fact that people were paying their mortgages,when the banks get themselves sorted then why shouldn't they lend like before?


----------



## High Times

9714 said:


> enjoyed reading your views, HT. are you in banking or finance? it all seems so clear when you tell it.


Hi 9714,

Yes i have worked in Financial Services for 20 years. I have worked for various national and global banks over the years and now run my own wealth/asset management company. As soon as i realised how much money i was making the banks i decided to give up the salary, car, pension cheap mortgage, bupa and all the other perks and work for myself.

Best days work i ever did. 

I'm glad you found the information usefull. It's nice to be able to put something back into the forum as i get a lot of usefull info about subjects i am clueless on such as construction, architecture etc. 



Wannaberich said:


> HT from the little I know the UK banks panicked because of what was happening in the states.Some of them were personally involved.It wasn't because people were defaulting on their mortgage payments.I'm not aware of loads of re-posessions.So had the s.... not hit the fans in the States then surely over here nothing would have changed?
> Given the fact that people were paying their mortgages,when the banks get themselves sorted then why shouldn't they lend like before?


Wannaberich, with respect i would suggest that you are maybe younger in age than myself (i guess around 30). I say this because the way the Banks have behaved over the last 8-10 years should not be viewed as "normal practice". It has been a very greedy, silly mistake for which we will all be paying for many years to come. We will all do this by paying over the odds for finance, regulation, and banking fees. Not to mention that the money used to bail out Northern Rock is UK taxpayers funds.

Why do i mention age? I like some others, will remember UK interest rates of 15% and this caused the last housing crash after years of low interest rates and high growth. 

What you have witness in the Banking sector over recent years has been suicidal and based purely on greed and a rising market. This will not happen again i assure you.

You are right that the main problem is in US banking but these days Banks are managed as hedge funds and borrow from one another to reduce risk. Thats fine when it's all ticking over smoothly but when you get a blip in the market for whatever reason. It has a knock on effect and one banks losses become another banks losses.

The reason why the interbank rate is so high at the moment is that banks are refusing to lend each other money as they dont trust each other and are unsure how exposed they all are to each others bad debt. It's all such a secret and competative industry that the system has effectively frozen up, hence the term credit crunch. The banks still have money they just dont want to lend it out to a 3rd party who may be hiding bad debt and therefore default on the loan and create a loss.

I could go on and on but I'm sure most people find this sort of stuff boring so i'll shut up now.


----------



## Morrismarina

Some good posts High Times. I also work in banking and previous to my current job with one of the UK's largest mortgage lenders, I worked for one of the Sub Prime mortgage lenders owned by a US bank. You're right 100% in what you say. I think the Northern Rock problem of relying far too much on wholesale money and very little on retail deposits has really put the shits up the UK banks. They're all desperate to hoard cash now. Also with the big drop in the number of mortgage redemptions (people being unable to re-mortgage or move house) the balances on their mortgage books are hardly reducing so they have little need to attract new borrowers. I can't see the "credit crunch" being over for at least another 12 -18 months yet, if not longer. In the meantime the greedy bastards are continuing to put up their lending rates and charging extortionate arrangement fees.....some are now charging an "arrangement fee" and an "application fee" on top......and this is for crap variable rates as well not just fixed rates.


----------



## Wannaberich

Am 41 actually.So as for the 15% interest era,been there,worn the t-shirt zzzzz.
HT reading your post it seems the problem isnt too much money being lent out to people who can't afford to pay.Your saying its simply a case that the banks don't trust other. Therefore,they can't borrow 
money to lend to Joe Bloggs,Joe Bloggs then can't buy a house so everything grinds to a halt.Perhaps if they are able in the future to borrow money they need from one another and trust where it came from then they can go back to lending 125% and prices can shoot up again.Fingers crossed.

The great thing about this kind of issue that I see,everyones an expert but no-one really knows whats going to happen.
There were those who said prices wouldn't shoot up again when we had the crash in the nineties,and it did,there were those who said there wouldn't be a crash,and it's happening(call it price correction if you want)
There are now those saying it won't go up again,albeit not for a long long time. Lets see what happens.


----------



## Naz UK

Economics isn't an exact science, simply because it relies on human emotion too much. Economics is 90% emotion, 10% money.


----------



## High Times

Sorry wannaberich, Take it as a compliment that i got your age wrong. You sound so youthfull and full of life. 

Yes you understand the concept of what i have explained regarding bank trust etc.

However the days of 125% lending wont be back for a very long time, if at all. Its not just up to weather the banks want to do it, or can afford to do it. In the UK the Banking and Financial Services industry has a regulator called the FSA ( Financial Services Authority).

The FSA are having their balls kicked by parliment at the moment as they should have seen this coming and stopped the likes of Northern Rock operating as they did. The fact is they just didnt understand the risks inherent in interbank lending and wholesale money markets.

I am certainly not saying that the housing market wont recover. Of course it will, but house price growth can be fuelled by various factors not just the availability of easy money. That just distorts the growth curve.

This last house price boom as been totally fuelled by loose lending criteria. The government is partly to blame as a certain Mr G. Brown decided it was an excellent idea to borrow heavily to invest in the country. Thats why this countrys balance sheet looks the way it does.

The public took his advice and did the same and now all of a suddon everyone is realisng that all that money that has been borrowed has to be repaid some time. 

As for predictions, 

Last June/July i predicted what was going to happen to americas econemy and i was laughed at. It was on this very thread actually when i said that the US was heading into resession/depression. There is one certain forumer who shot me down in flames (or tried).

I will make another prediction to you now.

You will be able to enjoy all the rides in Dubailand before 125% lending comes back to the UK. If it ever does which i seriously doubt.


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> Sorry wannaberich, Take it as a compliment that i got your age wrong. You sound so youthfull and full of life.
> .


Keep it coming with those compliments.


----------



## bizzybonita

Assessing the health of Dubai market: It seems almost impossible to open a newspaper or magazine in Dubai these days without reading about the latest real estate market report and its findings, which often seem to predict a downward turn or, even worse, market crash here in the near future.

For four or five years now there have been a number of reports questioning the status and longevity of Dubai's real estate boom, with findings suggesting that it has just about peaked, that oversupply is around the corner, that prices are too high and that the number of properties under construction is unnecessarily high and therefore saturation is pending. 

These reports are based on a range of information, from current activity both in terms of construction and purchases, but also using data from other international markets and backed by historical trends. By looking back at how other similar markets have performed at this stage of their life cycle and what happened to them after such a large growth spurt, analysts estimate the future of the Dubai market.

There is the principal that anything that goes up must eventually come down, and the supporting evidence that real estate bubbles inevitably burst backs this theory. For many, the question with Dubai is when this will happen, rather than if.

Underlying Facts

While it is good to question the sustainability of any fast growing market, in doing so there are often underlying facts that cannot be ignored. There were some who voiced concerns about the stability of several global markets in 2000, yet many of them are still fairing well. 

The reality is that over the years predictions about the Dubai market have continued to prove unfounded. In fact, the emirate has become something of an enigma and is proving to be a particularly tricky market to predict.

There are some clear reasons for this, including, the fact that with the ongoing construction delays we are experiencing, the supply is taking longer than predicted to even out. At the same time, the population and demand for property has continued to rise.

On a completely different note, there is also the element to the reports that sometimes create a feeling that they have been written in a way that provides the commissioner with the answers that they want to hear and are in effect, paying for, rather than hard solid facts.

No Sense Of Panic

This is not to say that all report findings are right or wrong, and I definitely don't have all the answers. What I can say is that in my day-to-day dealings in this market and from speaking to my colleagues at the ground level, and contrary to what recent reports have suggested, any sense of panic or slowdown has not reached them. 

In fact, one property consultant with whom I recently had a conversation told me how overwhelmed she and her colleagues are with enquiries, suggesting that the volume of business from both investors and end users remains at an all time high.

Only time will tell whether the reports prove to be correct or if we will see the Dubai market continue to throw up surprises and break all the rules as has so often been the case.


----------



## Tractor

I guess we shouldn't be discussing bank investments here, but if anyone would like to start an email discussion on it, feel free to PM me and we'll start a small mailing list. I know I could do with a hand with the research!


----------



## agod

High Times said:


> In a word, NO.
> 
> The unprecidented levels of un-realistic lending is why the world is in the financial mess it's in right now.
> 
> Sub Prime lending (a US concept) was to lend more or less any amount of money to anyone with a pulse. This fuelled the recent house price boom of the last 8-10 years both in the US and UK. The more the Banks were willing to lend, the more people wanted to borrow, the more houses people bought, the more house prices went up, the more demand there was, and so on.
> 
> Before the Banks had open cheque books there was a concept that was once known "geared lending". This is where a Bank only lent what it could afford to and so was much more restrictive, earning multiples of 3x joint income where used to gauge what you could borrow.
> 
> When the world went sub prime and self cirtificated (you declared you could afford the mortgage you wanted) it all went tit's up and thats where we are now.
> 
> The myth that Banks arn't lending money now is totally fabricated by the Media and is bullshit.
> 
> If you are borrowing at less than 75% LTV (loan to value) and are within 3-4 times income then you can get a mortgage no problem at all.
> 
> The reason for the panic is that Banks are just lending sencibly again and so in comparison to a year ago it looks like they have shut up shop.
> 
> Inter bank lending is still high even though Bank of England rates are falling thats because Banks are widening their margins on lending (making more profits), again to shore up their reserves or balance sheets.
> 
> The FSA and Government dont want Sub Prime or Self Cirt to be the norm again so wave goodbye to cheap easy money for good in my opnion.
> 
> For the goverment to have to bail out a UK lender is shamefull and they will not allow the same climate to emerge again as it will carry the same risks.


Thanks HT, you took the words right out of my mouth, and you say it so much better than me, as I go back a bit further than you, this is how it was in the 70's when Building Societies where very local concerns, and to get a mortgage, you needed to have an account and save 20% with them, and if you kept your nose clean, they lent you the money for your house, which was in the vicinity of there offices, they didn't have there own solicitors, and they didn't have there own insurance companies, and we had Estate Agents, and surveyors and valuers that knew the local housing stock and it's prices, not some snotty nosed 20 year olds,(apologies to any on here) having a guess at what he thinks a place is worth. Before buy to let, you couldn't get a mortgage on a rented property, you had to go to the bank and get a commercial loan, which was normally a couple of points above base, but my point is everyone had the own special job to do, if I went in to Tesco’s, I bought groceries, not Financial products, home goods, or clothes, and if I went to the bank I put my money in there, not bought Eggs.

The banks are the scourge of the Earth, they are the cause of most of the Financial world woes, I have always never defaulted or been late on any loan, mortgage credit card, or anything that I have take responsibility for, but in the 90’s my bank had a new regime installed and all my borrowings became known as “Hard Core Borrowing” so while I have kept in good standing for 40 years, it is them that blow hot and cold, they finally apologised and gave me £160 compo, even today, they have moved me into a Private Account, and given me a Black Card, I didn’t ask for any of it, I was happy where I was, asked them to take it back, but as soon as they see money in the account, bingo, they love you, and I have just re-mortgage at a lower rate, no problem.

I even worked for a High St bank back in the 80’s when all the Endowment scandal was around, I was the Pension Specialist, and went from branch to branch, writing people up, I lasted 3 months because I was so disgusted by the tricks the branch managers played on there customers, just to get there figures in, I remember a lovely 60 year old west Indian lady, who asked me about her pension, when I asked her to see it, she had a £10 per month Kiddies saving scheme, recommended by the trusted manager, I went to see him, and had an almighty row about it, that we should get her out of that, and into something more appropriate, all he said was tough, I needed to sell some of them for his monthly figures, this was the time when some reps got the first years premium as commission, or some nice recurring fees for life, nice little earners for those in the know, it was also when they decided enough was enough, and the FSA was formed, I think.


I have two American Mortgages, both of them ARM’s (Adjustable Rate Mortgages) not because I am sub-prime, but as Foreign National it’s only 65%. Even when my wife worked a the Bank of America for 21 years, but they will give you a 30 year loan, whatever age you are, Why they don’t do that here, or a lifetime loan, or interest only, for youngsters trying to get on the ladder, it would be affordable, and they have the Lien on your house anyway, that’s another point, that it is a very small percentage, that are in negative equity, I bet if we had a poll here, most of us are in positive equity, so there is millions out there that are still quid’s in, and the banks are too, and what they gonna do, they know the market will return, but they have got the shits, and they sit around in committees all day thinking of ways to **** us up.

p.s. Thank God Dubai is still in the dark ages, and the banks cant pull the money peoples strings and **** with the economy like ours. (see, got something in on Dubai)

Alan


----------



## M Class

mdxb said:


> I live near it and pass the project everyday. Unfortunately, NOTHING is going on.



Lies and Lies from Mazaya . What are they waiting for ??. the more they delay the more they suffer already the building materials is going up day by day .


----------



## rexdmx

High Times said:


> As for predictions,
> 
> Last June/July i predicted what was going to happen to americas econemy and i was laughed at. It was on this very thread actually when i said that the US was heading into resession/depression. There is one certain forumer who shot me down in flames (or tried).
> 
> .


ok...with regards to predictions high times... i would assume i was the certain forumer who shot you down but i also wanted you to put the folks here in perspective..



first of all, you never actually made a prediction based on the facts..it was only anti US remarks (due to the war in iraq which you opposed) most of which i did not take likely and it started with the upcoming economies i.e china which for some reason you were sure would take over the u.s

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764&page=157

i did specify that it takes a lot of factors to reach the U.S economy both in terms of economical and military might..b4 you assumed i was american...which again i told you i was not..

secondly, you were pointint out that this was the worst case in U.S. history blah blah and i simply pointed out that the american economy is known for its resillience...i never said the situation at that time was not bad... 
i also pointed you to the currency thread that glover started in which there were proper healthy arguments based on economic theories...and not the american weight issues which were subjective and bear no resemblance with the analysis of economic theories

then we had a row over rip offs with some naz...
when everyone cut and paste new articles...it's ok when rex does it, the world order has been broken!!

in conclusion there was no "prediction" from you per se...... recently you have been doing well i presume as someone a page before say he understands you.

good on you. this means you have been learning to model your arguments from sameerl and sinbad...etc


----------



## High Times

Ah my dearest rex,

My initial reaction was to ignore your latest slight, but then decided there was some relevance in a retort as it is Dubai Investment related.

You are correct that I didn’t use the words "I predict" when I said the US was in serious decline. I thought it was obvious that I was saying what would happen and credited you with at least the intelligence to realise that.

I am pleased to say that I had the courage of my own convictions and sold 2 buy to let properties I had in the UK last June. Only 3 months premature so timing was not perfect but I'll settle for that now.

Yes I am massively opposed to US foreign policy in the middle-east, and that may have had a big influence on my rant.

What you don’t seem to get my friend is that the symptoms are:

Dollar loosing value
Housing crisis
Sub Prime fall out
Banks folding
Victim of terrorist attacks

These are the symptoms. The disease is a cancerous greed that engulfs and embodies what is America.

You see what is backfiring in the face of the US at the moment is their plan to go to war in Iraq and effect regime change (choose a pro west leader) and free up the worlds 3rd largest oil reserves to feed Americas “addiction to oil”.

This is one reason why we are where we are now in terms of high oil prices. Regardless of what you believe the Middle East leaders control the supply chain of the majority of the worlds oil reserves. If they wanted to turn the taps on and in turn reduce the price of oil they would. There not for there own reasons mainly greed I’m sure, but I also believe it’s because they now know Americas weakness. They are secretly enjoying the pain the US is enduring.

As oil prices rise and the US reduces working week times to cut costs the Sheikh’s of the middle-east rub their hands in joy.

So in summary the mess America is in now is self inflicted from greed. They may be strong militarily but they have a weakness, and now they are suffering withdrawal symptoms.

The benefactors of this shambles of leadership are the gulf states, and Asia in general. The rising tigers as they are known in the fund management world are reaping the rewards of greedy western governments (mine included). 

As most of us that use this forum have invested into Dubai then *congratulations,* as it’s the best move you will ever make because in 10 years from now China, Gulf states, India will be the economic powerplants of the world. Dubai will be the business centre of Asia. 

*Rex - That’s another prediction by the way.*

America and Britain will be reduced to high crime, high tax, hamburger stands.

To all Americans don’t take this personally I have many American friends and I am not anti-American. I just hate your governments self righteous neo-con Christian belief that it has the moral high ground to implement democracy across the globe, especially when it is not needed.


----------



## Morrismarina

I must admit I was another one who 12 to 18 months ago posted that I thought the US economy would be starting to pull through it's economic woes by now (contrary to what HT was predicting at the time). Guess I was wrong and the position in the US looks very bleak, and the outlook for the UK the same IMO. Like all of us I wasn't aware at the time of the US Sub Prime crisis around the corner and of course another new factor is that we now have the oil price around $140 a barrel. A double whammy !! Things are certainly a lot worse than I thought and there are some very hard times ahead for the US & UK economies now.

Regarding the UK Buy To Let market there's going to be loads of investors going bankrupt soon. The lender I work for was like many other banks granting BTL mortgages last year based on rental cover of 100% and this was calculated on the "pay rate". ie. the initial rate. 

So if the initial rate was fixed at 4.79% for two years then the rental cover calculation was done at this low rate. Rent only had to cover the mortgage payment, with no surplus margin required. Problem is the deals were fixed for two years then they go to Bank of England rate plus 2%, which is effectively a rate today of 7%. So if the rental cover was 100% at 4.79% there's going to be a massive shortfall to cover the mortgage payments when the rate increases to 7% (assuming the BBR remains where it is today).

For example:

Initial scenario:

House rents for £500 per month which covers the mortgage payment exactly (100% rental cover). Rate is 4.79% fixed for two years, likewise the mortgage payment is £500 pm, same as the rent and the mortgage amount is £125,260.

Two Years Later:

Rate reverts to BBR +2% variable which equates to 7% today. The monthly payment on the mortgage increase from £500 to £730 pm. Rental shortfall £230 pm !!!

Now somebody with just one rental property may be able to make this up form their own personal income, but investors who can't do this or have a portfolio of properties are going to be absolutely stuffed here. They'll be trying to off load them like there's no tomorrow. All this is yet to happen in about 12 months time..............the BTL timebomb !!! Of course if the BBR comes down 2.25% during the next 12 months then of course the rental shortfall may be averted, but the way things are going in the UK and the stubborness of the Bank of England not to lower rates I wouldn't bet on it.

All the fault of the UK lenders and their reckless corporate greed. hno:

At least we can take comfort from the fact that the UAE banks have not been so stupid and their relatively cautious approach when granting mortgages has to be applauded here.


----------



## rexdmx

High Times said:


> Ah my dearest rex,
> 
> My initial reaction was to ignore your latest slight, but then decided there was some relevance in a retort as it is Dubai Investment related.
> 
> You are correct that I didn’t use the words "I predict" when I said the US was in serious decline. I thought it was obvious that I was saying what would happen and credited you with at least the intelligence to realise that.
> 
> I am pleased to say that I had the courage of my own convictions and sold 2 buy to let properties I had in the UK last June. Only 3 months premature so timing was not perfect but I'll settle for that now.
> 
> Yes I am massively opposed to US foreign policy in the middle-east, and that may have had a big influence on my *rant.*
> 
> What you don’t seem to get my friend is that the symptoms are:
> 
> *Dollar loosing value
> Housing crisis
> Sub Prime fall out
> Banks folding
> Victim of terrorist attacks*
> 
> These are the symptoms. The disease is a cancerous greed that engulfs and embodies what is America.
> 
> You see what is backfiring in the face of the US at the moment is their plan to go to war in Iraq and effect regime change (choose a pro west leader) and free up the worlds 3rd largest oil reserves to feed Americas “addiction to oil”.
> 
> This is one reason why we are where we are now in terms of high oil prices. Regardless of what you believe the Middle East leaders control the supply chain of the majority of the worlds oil reserves. If they wanted to turn the taps on and in turn reduce the price of oil they would. There not for there own reasons mainly greed I’m sure, but I also believe it’s because they now know Americas weakness. They are secretly enjoying the pain the US is enduring.
> 
> As oil prices rise and the US reduces working week times to cut costs the Sheikh’s of the middle-east rub their hands in joy.
> 
> So in summary the mess America is in now is self inflicted from greed. They may be strong militarily but they have a weakness, and now they are suffering withdrawal symptoms.
> 
> The benefactors of this shambles of leadership are the gulf states, and Asia in general. The rising tigers as they are known in the fund management world are reaping the rewards of greedy western governments (mine included).
> 
> As most of us that use this forum have invested into Dubai then *congratulations,* as it’s the best move you will ever make because in 10 years from now China, Gulf states, India will be the economic powerplants of the world. Dubai will be the business centre of Asia.
> 
> *Rex - That’s another prediction by the way.*
> 
> America and Britain will be reduced to high crime, high tax, hamburger stands.
> 
> To all Americans don’t take this personally I have many American friends and I am not anti-American. I just hate your governments self righteous neo-con Christian belief that it has the moral high ground to implement democracy across the globe, especially when it is not needed.


come of it...:lol: that's not a prediction...everyone knows that india and china are doing well.
alright let's start dissecting quickly;

glad to see you got out when you did in the U.K market...dunno if it was gut feeling or not but that is by the way.

the rant is understandable seeing that US is doing several things in ur back yard which u dont agree with...(although we could debate on whether or not the move was right, historians would also do the same for centuries so that is also by the way)

what i was worried about in our rant (dont forget i also ranted about brain power if u recall...) was your refusal or not just urs but some weltmister guy or something like that was the doubting of the resillence of the U.S. economy which was fundamental to my argument. experience has really thought them how to respond to several situations that other countries may not be able to tackle efficiently...
ok maybe it could have been prevented but the crisis did not buckle them to the point of the " depression" which was what i argued
if the depression was adjusted to current times...well u know the answer to that.

ok even if u r not anti american, you really put them all in the same pot.the rest of your statements are mostly political which we can debate...
we can in the end agree to disagree
remember what happened during the oil shock of the 70's when the prices crumbled because of the cartels etc...
even the gulf has learnt their lesson and both sides understand the dangers of high oil prices...there are more ripple effects than we can see on face value

ps: neo christians?? are you also anti christian too?:bash:


----------



## rexdmx

Morrismarina said:


> I must admit I was another one who 12 to 18 months ago posted that I thought the US economy would be starting to pull through it's economic woes by now (contrary to what HT was predicting at the time). Guess I was wrong and the position in the US looks very bleak, and the outlook for the UK the same IMO. Like all of us I wasn't aware at the time of the US Sub Prime crisis around the corner and of course another new factor is that we now have the oil price around $140 a barrel. A double whammy !! Things are certainly a lot worse than I thought and there are some very hard times ahead for the US & UK economies now.
> 
> .


what prediction morris??? even HT knows there wasn't a prediction!!
second of all how could you even assume that a down turn in an economy would result in the opposite direction after a year?
booms and bust have a cycle...which would depend on the factors under analysis. if i am not mistaken...it usually takes a period of 5-7 years give or take...
during the asian financial crisis...how long did it take? how long did the japanese economic crisis take?
third of all, Goldman sachs and other analysts had already known about the sub prime crisis...it was there for all to see .

also there have been reports for over 3 years which forecasted the spike in the price of crude even to 200 dollars.. with obvious reasons... the appetite of the emerging markets was enough...there are pages of reports on this and u can ask sameerl if he can get his hand on one of those reports for u.
dont make it sound like HT was making a prediction and we were pushing him the wrong way!...HT knows it is not the case and knows the extent of the argument previously...

ease up...


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## Naz UK

I want to post my opinion..but its less than 6000 words... is that ok? 

 :runaway:


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## IISinbadII

*High Times*, I would like to hear your thaughts and predictions regarding Dubai property market. Thanks.


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## PAULDELVES

Naz UK said:


> I want to post my opinion..but its less than 6000 words... is that ok?
> 
> :runaway:


Yes, but keep it detailed -- LOL !


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## Wannaberich

The arabs are scumbags for what they are doing with the price of oil.I pray for the day when oil is no longer needed and these countries suffer like everyone else !


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## Morten_Denmark

Tractor said:


> Oil jumped 10% because of poor jobs data in the US which saw more money taken out of equities and put into commodities ... and the USD fell too.
> 
> Don't believe the hype, oil prices are a bubble that will burst soon.


Job data was a parameter but is was specific a prediction that oil prices would pass 150 $ at 4 july.


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## nisha

Tractor said:


> Oil jumped 10% because of poor jobs data in the US which saw more money taken out of equities and put into commodities ... and the USD fell too.
> 
> Don't believe the hype, oil prices are a bubble that will burst soon.


You are spot on!

Mortem,

The article I referred to were excerpts from the June 2 hearings in the U.S. Senate on speculation and manipulation of oil prices and the comments were from Michael Greenberger, a consultant to the Justic Department and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC).

And don't believe analysts - they're going to obviously drum it up since their investment banks are all long on oil......


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## Tractor

Everyone who is saying that has a vested interest (analysts, hedge funds, etc.). Playing with commodities is a very dangerous business ...

Several people are waiting for oil prices to crash spectacularly.


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## nisha

Aye - people have forgotten the dot com boom-bust.... tis the same with oil.


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## Morten_Denmark

nisha said:


> You are spot on!
> 
> Mortem,
> 
> The article I referred to were excerpts from the June 2 hearings in the U.S. Senate on speculation and manipulation of oil prices and the comments were from Michael Greenberger, a consultant to the Justic Department and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC).
> 
> And don't believe analysts - they're going to obviously drum it up since their investment banks are all long on oil......


I never follow analysts in any decisions - my best stocks have been playing the opposite game. 

We will soon find out if there will be a spectacular crash. I dont think there will be a crash the next year or two. Meanwhile the liquidity is piling up in the middle east especially - and this is what is important here. Liquidity in the middle east are not going in the bank.

Even the people with great insight are disagreeing on this oil topic - so why would be know better.


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## nisha

Morten_Denmark said:


> I never follow analysts in any decisions


It was in response to your statement below..



Morten_Denmark said:


> This is what everybody thought until a couple well known analysts reiterated this thursday/friday that this is not the case - hence the oil jumped 10%.


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## IISinbadII

oil is not dot.com, its for real. 

It will take a lot of oil to develop China and India, and at the same time fulfill the fuel needs of the rest of the world . Rising food and oil prices could remain the theme for many years to come.


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## Morten_Denmark

Ok - my last words on oil for now  But this is a funny story from real life. 

An oil company where I am doing a job right now - invited on cake the coming friday because they for the first time had sold a shipfull of oil above 100$ bbl - the day we had cake the price was 110 $ and you can imagine that we had some laughs duriing caketime as we accused the oiltrader of doing his job pretty poor...


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## Morten_Denmark

*2 beds - rent - Dubai Marina*

Regarding analysts. Here are some words about rents.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/6/Pages/06082008_811eae71b3964d8ba7a648b6b5583836.aspx

Here are some figures from Dubai Marina. Renting 2-beds in JBR - cash in the hand of the landlord. I am too lazy to denote the axis - but it is x1000 Aed along the Y-axis. The last month the data are touching a number of 10 and are not statictically sound anymore. But the rents in the Marina are not cooling and seem to follow the property prices. I would say approx 7% in rental income. Studios are now renting for 83.000 Aed in average in the whole marina and I would say that rental income are approx 10% of a typical studio. It is noted that COMPLETED studios in the Dubai Marina are becoming hard to find below 1 mio.


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## Morten_Denmark

IISinbadII said:


> oil is not dot.com, its for real.
> 
> It will take a lot of oil to develop China and India, and at the same time fulfill the fuel needs of the rest of the world . Rising food and oil prices could remain the theme for many years to come.


As an eaxmple in China they are now developing very very cheap cars going on gasoline. The intentions are that every familiy shall have one very soon. I think they can run long on the gallon - but just imagine the amount of fuel they will use if this becomes a reality.


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## mdxb

M Class said:


> Lies and Lies from Mazaya . What are they waiting for ??. the more they delay the more they suffer already the building materials is going up day by day .


I agree. I saw the Mazaya newsletter this week that they keep sending me and I saw the full page ad for Queue Point that says, "Construction started." Al I saw from the location is 1 heavy equiptment. I think they only put it there so it would look busy.hno:


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## Wannaberich

Morten_Denmark said:


> I know this is the tread regarding investing in real estate in Dubai. Hence the talk of price of oil is very important. If we hit 200 $ and if the morgage rates in Dubai goes a bit further down to reflect the falling US interest rates the property prices will soar and I think what we have seen until now is just "warming up" before the real fight


Rising property prices? Lets pray for $200 dollars a barrel.Don't you just love those Arabs !! :banana:


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## bizzybonita

i think you have bad history from arabs and u wanna to tell us  wanna berich.


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## Wannaberich

bizzybonita said:


> i think you have bad history from arabs and u wanna to tell us  wanna berich.



Look bro,I don't have any problems with them all the time they are making me money.Even if they do wear funny white dresses with dishclothes on their heads.


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## Tojbas

can someone please give me some advise on investing right now? Is it still good time to enter?


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## Dubai_Steve

IMO prices should keep rising for the next 3 years in general, so yes still OK but last chance to invest now really in order to guarantee good returns. After 3 years I would guess that things will be risky and depends on too many factors.


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## ferrari430

So when is the time to sell. ie can we correctly call the peak of the market in dubai - maybe mid - end of 2009


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## Dubai_Steve

mid 2011


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## Salameer

Wannaberich said:


> Look bro,I don't have any problems with them all the time they are making me money.Even if they do wear funny white dresses with dishclothes on their heads.


I bet you wouldn't say it to an Arab's face.


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## Tractor

For those of you counting on ridiculous oil prices ...

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/may2008/db20080513_272469.htm


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## FWIW

rexdmx said:


> precisely what i told HT before... research based on tangible happenings even if i do get what he is trying to get across.
> the statistics can be argued to be right or wrong depending on how the statistics were gathered and the parameters that gathered them
> 
> glad to know everyone is coming back...
> 
> by the way...i apparently the FED chief hinted at actively intervening to prop up the dollar...apparently got the go ahead from the horse's mouth himself.


The problem with the technical recession definition is that it is based on GDP. GDP can be revised upwards or downwards (many years?) later...

http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=617939

This is the main reason I do not hold GDP values in the high regard some of you others do.

Regarding the $ - talk is cheap, the recent actions of the FED have shown them to be a basket case. UK and Europe will be increasing interest rates very soon. As Trichet says "there is only 1 needle in my compass", and he has to do whatever is necessary to control the rampant inflation.


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## rexdmx

FWIW said:


> The problem with the technical recession definition is that it is based on GDP. GDP can be revised upwards or downwards (many years?) later...
> 
> http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=617939
> 
> This is the main reason I do not hold GDP values in the high regard some of you others do.
> 
> Regarding the $ - talk is cheap, the recent actions of the FED have shown them to be a basket case. UK and Europe will be increasing interest rates very soon. As Trichet says "there is only 1 needle in my compass", and he has to do whatever is necessary to control the rampant inflation.


GDP isnt the only measure of growth taken in this case nor is it the only case tht is looked into when calculating a recession although it is usually the only thing many look at.
but with the FED chairman...dont write him off...yet. this statement by the FED actually surprised a lot of ppl as it is not the habit of a FED chairman to actually speak in this manner.
during the subprime, he did act which i spose is important in wondering if he would act again to check inflation..


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## AltinD

^^ If the US economy is in good shape then the American public is a bunch of whinning attention ho'. What else would explain the things you read if you open any internet portal? The top rubrics are all about how to save some extra bucks or to cut on everyday activities. 



(hope you get what I'm saying)


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## glover

^^^ what planet do you live on, do you think only americans are talking about that!!! 

the dramatic rise in living expenses is a topic shared by everyone on this globe, including people living in the booming economies of the gulf region (and i am not excluding locals here)!!!


----------



## FWIW

glover said:


> ^^^ what planet do you live on, do you think only americans are talking about that!!!
> 
> the dramatic rise in living expenses is a topic shared by everyone on this globe, including people living in the booming economies of the gulf region (and i am not excluding locals here)!!!


The dramatic rise of inflation is due to the FED pumping excess liquidity into the financial system and keeping interest rates too low for too long. The funds that were meant to bail out the US banks has found its way into the global commodities market. This is causing the grief the common man now feels. 

Oil is in a speculative bubble now, and Goldman Sachs are the cheerleaders and the ones that will benefit the most from this situation. What has this got to do with Dubai property prices? I believe the excess profit from oil will now go further into the infrastructure of the UAE and therefore into property. A high oil price is great for the UAE economy; unfortunately it is priced in worthless $.


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## Wannaberich

GULF NEWS:
Prices of key construction materials rise over 25% 
By Irish Eden Belleza, Web Coordinator
Published: June 11, 2008, 00:03


Dubai: The recent study by the Dubai Chamber of Commerce and Industry shows that prices of construction materials are soaring again after a period of relative stability. 

This shows demand for construction materials has been growing faster than supply, causing shortages in some areas and subsequently affecting prices.

Steel, cement and aluminium are three key construction materials that have been greatly affected by the current situation. In the Middle East, steel production increased by seven per cent to 16 million tonnes, but consumption remains high at an estimated 39 million tonnes, causing excess demand of almost 23 million tonnes.

Due to the high consumption, steel prices have increased sharply in the local markets, increasing on average 22 per cent in the first quarter of 2008 across the Middle East. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The study also shows that the average cement price in Dubai increased by more than 50 per cent in March, and other construction materials that use cement as a component such as concrete and ready-mix saw stiff price increases. 

As most of the new construction projects in the Middle East are in the UAE, particularly Dubai, the cement market in the country is pressured to meet this huge demand. 

Cement

Cement production in the UAE in 2007 was estimated at 13.2 million tonnes, but consumption was about 18.2 million tonnes and is expected to reach 23 million tonnes by 2010.

On the other hand, compared to other markets around the world and in the Middle East, Dubai ranks first in terms of aluminium price increase as on average, aluminium prices increased by almost 23 per cent in the first quarter of 2008 compared to the average price in 2007.
--------------

REJOICE !!


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## shaffar

I got news that one owner settled on cost + 50%.

But why:nuts:, you should not accept anything less than market value, cost + 90/120%. That's what my friend is holding out for.


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## rexdmx

AltinD said:


> ^^ If the US economy is in good shape then the American public is a bunch of whinning attention ho'. What else would explain the things you read if you open any internet portal? The top rubrics are all about how to save some extra bucks or to cut on everyday activities.
> 
> 
> 
> (hope you get what I'm saying)


nothing wrong in saving a few bucks here and there... some folk there have very bad saving records...
but not only american forums do that...


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## AltinD

^^ Of course there's nothing wrong with that. I for example started boycotting the Danish butter last week, and went for the Kiwie one ... of course the 40% saving was the reason. 

However you must accept that for considering themself to be the reachest country on earth they do allot of whinning when it comes to prices, especially considering they pay less in almost everything even compared with 3rd world countries.


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## Morten_Denmark

AltinD said:


> ^^ Of course there's nothing wrong with that. I for example started boycotting the Danish butter last week, and went for the Kiwie one ... of course the 40% saving was the reason.
> 
> However you must accept that for considering themself to be the reachest country on earth they do allot of whinning when it comes to prices, especially considering they pay less in almost everything even compared with 3rd world countries.


Oouch, I am really hurt that you boycott danish products. Anyway, we are all going to live with inflation the coming years - also in the western world. I read yesterday that teachers got 6.000 AED in pay raise in Abu Dhabi to cover soaring rents - good for them but will properly only add fuel to the fire. Soon UAE need to do something dramatically or hope for rising FED rents. The latter might be very far away as homeowners in the US is still a deeper concern for the FEDS IMO. I do only see a revaluation of the Dirham as last possibility. I better hurry up and pay my last installments :cheers:


----------



## AltinD

Morten_Denmark said:


> Oouch, I am really hurt that you boycott danish products.


Actually I started boycotting Danish products more then 2 decades ago ... for different reasons though, too old for LEGOs. :lol:

Carlsberg is NOT on the list, so there's still hope for you. :cheers:


----------



## FWIW

Tractor said:


> The smart money is going back into banks like RBS now ...


Tractor - Did the smart money go into RBS too early? If it was below 205 then I might have a punt!


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## Tractor

Not sure it will see 205p as £12billion says 200p is the bottom, I've added more today to average down. I assume you read the news from RBS today ... short term falls are just opportunities to get more at a bargain price. Sadly short-term price is being affected by other banks & house builders.

I never buy shares for a short-term gain, I am only worried about where it'll be in 12+ months.


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## foxy

Morten

what is the current trend of marina apt prices? seems that the price floor is rising, judging by the Better Homes website.

re RBS the price is already much lower than most people would have imagined 3 months ago


----------



## Morten_Denmark

foxy said:


> Morten
> 
> what is the current trend of marina apt prices? seems that the price floor is rising, judging by the Better Homes website.
> 
> re RBS the price is already much lower than most people would have imagined 3 months ago


Foxy - seems like prices are going up faster than ever - but I see many apartments being put up for sale - this is surprising and might flattend the prices during the next months..


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## foxy

thanks Morten knew I could rely on you.

Tak


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## Wannaberich

Morten_Denmark said:


> Foxy - seems like prices are going up faster than ever - but I see many apartments being put up for sale - this is surprising and might flattend the prices during the next months..


Not surprising that prices are shooting up considering the increase in material costs and oil.AME info reported that prices are going up as fast as at any time during the boom.


----------



## DoBuy

A question.I have a studio brought april 2007 built by Tameer have had an offer at
40% premium from a buyer.However,it was supposed to be ready in Feb 2009 
but its now looking like end of this year.Last payment still not due till Feb 2009.
Do I sell or will the price rise sharply nearer to completion?


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## foxy

thanks Morten knew I could rely on you.

Tak


----------



## bizzybonita

Inflation in UAE not to hurt property demand:

Emaar Properties said yesterday that soaring inflation in the UAE was unlikely to hit demand for real estate in the second-largest Arab economy.

Inflation in the UAE probably soared to an at least 20-year peak of 11.4 per cent last year from 9.3 per cent a year earlier, according to a Reuters poll last month, as rents and food prices jumped.

"It will not impact [demand] because it is a global phenomenon," Emaar chairman Mohammad Al Abbar told Reuters on the sidelines of a news conference in response to a question regarding the impact of price rises on property demand. Increases in raw material prices, Al Abbar said, are not a worrying factor as most of its projects are long-term and the company procures raw materials in bulk. Property prices have been soaring in the UAE as supply fails to keep up with demand. 

Dubai kicked off the property boom when it first allowed foreigners to invest in property in 2002.

Emaar posted its second decline in profit in three quarters in April as revenue stagnated and marketing and selling costs rose. 

Yesterday at the news conference, Emaar unveiled a water fountain project, to be operational by March 2009. 

The total development value of the Burj Dubai Lake, the fountain and its advanced filtrations systems is Dh800 million. The company believes that the fountain, along the lines of The Fountains at Bellagio in Las Vegas but 25 per cent larger, will be a major tourist attraction, drawing over 10 million visitors annually.

Via Gulf News


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## Naz UK

smussuw said:


> ^^ We used to rent our house to the Qatari consulate for 400k per year between 1994 to 1998.


Well, that is the next big thing now with residential areas like Jumeirah, the letting of houses to commercial entities and offices, where you can get up to 3x the normal value - e.g. a 6 bed villa for about Dhs 1 million per year.


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## smussuw

^^ It was for the Consul General personal house and not the consulate office, but I guess its the same.

The sale value is another mystery :nuts:


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## Tightness

Hi guys, I am quite new to the forum and would like to know where to find information about property finance (i.e. mortgages) in Dubai.

Is there a separate forum for this or would I just ask the question here in this "investment" thread?


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## Morten_Denmark

Deleted


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## Wannaberich

Morten_Denmark said:


> For the real speculators - I think it is a good to owe the bank as much as possible .


So long as your nerves can take it.


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## Morten_Denmark

Wannaberich said:


> So long as your nerves can take it.


Very True - and this is why I mentioned the "real speculators"


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## glover

*fallout from Deyaar embezzlement case continues*

*Senior JP Morgan exec detained in DIB probe*
by Dylan Bowman on Sunday, 15 June 2008
arabian business

PROBE CONTINUES: A second former DIB employee has been detailed by Dubai police in connection with an ongoing fraud investigation.
A senior JP Morgan Chase executive has been detained by Dubai police in connection with a fraud investigation into Dubai Islamic Bank (DIB), the Gulf's third-largest sharia compliant lender.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/522124-senior-jp-morgan-exec-detained-in-dib-probe?ln=en


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## HappyLarry

Dubai_Steve said:


> 5% of an estimated sale value should give you an indication of the market rental value.


A 5% rental yield normally tilts the balance in favor of renting against buying. If yields are approaching this level then it implies that property prices will remain flat in coming years.

With US economy in the doldrums and Euro economies doing no better, investing in UAE property as a safe haven may not be such a bad idea.


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## Wannaberich

HappyLarry said:


> With US economy in the doldrums and Euro economies doing no better, investing in UAE property as a safe haven may not be such a bad idea.


Now there's an understatement.


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## Wannaberich

Morten_Denmark said:


> Very True - and this is why I mentioned the "real speculators"


I guess in that case I'm almost a real speculator.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

HappyLarry said:


> A 5% rental yield normally tilts the balance in favor of renting against buying. If yields are approaching this level then it implies that property prices will remain flat in coming years.
> 
> With US economy in the doldrums and Euro economies doing no better, investing in UAE property as a safe haven may not be such a bad idea.


Large villas are about 5% yield. Apartments are about 7% yield now. Yes these figures are going down so it indicates that prices will become flat in Dubai in a few years and only end user demand (not investors) can keep the prices up then. I expect in 2011 they will become stagnant as supply will be plentiful.


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## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> I expect in 2011 they will become stagnant as supply will be plentiful.


So why do you think that?You like everyone else do not know how many people are moving to Dubai now or in the future.You also have no idea if all these various projects will be delivered on time or how late they will be.
You have also not allowed for the fact that many owners will still be leaving their units empty to avoid renting for 3 years.This will cause even more rental undersupply.Therefore people may look to buy instead.So more buyers,few units for sale will push the prices up.
No-one should predict when prices will level out.


----------



## diveksa

*Dubai Marina, Apartment Price/Sq.Ft : 1,947 AED*

http://www.alineah.com/dubai-realestate-analysis/DubaiMarina/apartment/147/detail.asp


----------



## Tractor

^^ I'd say that is average asking price, real prices are 10-20% below that, based on my own experiences.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Tractor said:


> ^^ I'd say that is average asking price, real prices are 10-20% below that, based on my own experiences.


Yes, these estimates are based only on asking prices from this site - and sometime also include expenses to 3rd party. Where there are enough data it is a good site to observe the trend. In some developments in the marina there seem to be no discount - you might even have to chase the prices up as a buyer. Other developments in the Marina it seems to be true that there are a lot of discount - especially if the units have been for sale more than two months. But to get a real picture of the prices we are missing the sales which never reach the webpages but are sold within very short time as people is on a waiting list and similar. I dont know the real figure for the Marina in general as it is difficult to get hold of real sales prices - but +2000 psf is becoming common for completed units.


----------



## bizzybonita

Emaar to build hospitals in Mideast

on Sunday, 15 June 2008 

HEALTHCARE INVESTMENT: Emmar has said it will build hospitals in the region with a subsidiary of The Methodist Hospital. (Getty Images)Emaar Properties' healthcare unit said on Sunday it would build hospitals in the Middle East and North Africa with a subsidiary of American hospital brand, The Methodist Hospital.

Emaar Healthcare Group and Methodist International would develop and manage hospitals *in the UAE*, Algeria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey in the next five years, Emaar said in a statement.

*Some of these hospitals will serve residential developments of Emaar Properties*, the largest Arab developer by market value, it said.

Emaar did not say how much it planned to invest in building healthcare facilities. (Reuters) 

they are so close from DUBAI MARINA , BB :banana::banana::banana:


----------



## 234sale

What we can see for sure is a complete slow down in building, reducing the supply.. 
Look at business bay,, Nothing will actually be handed over until Beginning of 2010. Dubai, Abu Dhabi will always be playing demand catch up.. 

As for the other Emirates, utilities are the big headache...


----------



## shaffar

Think of the headlines if this does not resolve to the satisfaction of the buyers, every country who envies the Dubai success story will point out how dangerous its to invest in the state (conveniently leaving out any safeguards in place now).

Any one who thinks they're going to lose any money invested (getting your money back only, is losing) is not realizing how embarrassing to the whole Dubai image this could be. No way would I be comfortable if i heard of such news before investing in Dubai.


----------



## abf

*Of Interest to Investors*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7456547.stm


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> So why do you think that?You like everyone else do not know how many people are moving to Dubai now or in the future.You also have no idea if all these various projects will be delivered on time or how late they will be.
> You have also not allowed for the fact that many owners will still be leaving their units empty to avoid renting for 3 years.This will cause even more rental undersupply.Therefore people may look to buy instead.So more buyers,few units for sale will push the prices up.
> No-one should predict when prices will level out.


Yes this is purely my own opinion based on my own interpretation of the facts over the last years of studying the market. Regarding empty apartments, there is talk of a new law preventing apartments from being left empty by investors. In 2011 and 2012 we will also see quite a large number of completed units based on realistic dates not early dates used by banks. Also prices are continung to rise strongly at present, faster than rental prices, this can only be sustained for a short period of time and investors and speculators will not be so interested as yields continue to drop. Yields will eventually drop below 5% at which point only end users can drive the price higher. IMHO, the desirability of Dubai may not match the very high prices that the trend will cause them to reach by 2012.


----------



## mission

Can someone give me Emirates Bank e-mail address i still cant find it????

Oh please help me


----------



## FWIW

mission said:


> Can someone give me Emirates Bank e-mail address i still cant find it????
> 
> Oh please help me


This is the last time...

http://www.ebi.ae/ebi/contactus/default.htm

http://www.ebi.ae/ebi/meCARE/default.htm

Call them and ask them.

Now go away and stop asking us the same questions again and again.

:nuts:


----------



## jacobdxb

I must say, that there hasn't been a lot of investment talk lately, ie. with specific projects mentioned... Are people taking a break, or are they very busy investing? 

Any tips on Abu Dhabi property investment? is there a seperate thread for this?


----------



## Mavekris

^^so as per you a sketch of the building is good enough for ir respective of the developer hno:

so UNEC is capable of doing burj you mean ?

Do you have any idea what you are saying hno:


----------



## Palm-Host

Hi Jacob,
How are you doing?
Abu Dhabi is hot at the moment, great stuff on the market, especially after last months launch at city scape. Some great deals to be had.

PM me I'll let you in on some great stock!


----------



## Mavekris

canal residence Buildings are the best looking G+ < 19 category.

They must have given them to good contractor, the reason they are going with a average contractor is they sold the first 3 towers for < = 700 aed persqft 2yrs back.

Now they have no option other than to compromise on the contractor credibility and quality


----------



## Ali_Syed

hopefully quality should not be compromised. CR is monitored by Bureau Veritas, a third party quality assurance monitor.


----------



## jumeirah

Dear forumers and jbr landlords, once again I like to ask you urgently to help yourself and us to protect our investment at JBR, since the developer is not delivering what he promised. For example, 2 gyms instead of 7, which were promised by DP, a CARPARK to destroy OUR beach, which will be a severe safety hazard for children at the beach, (there are many reckless drivers!!!) no proper opening hours for the pools and a very long sad list of things which are not being taken care of in a professional way. Mr. Wasim Islam, Mr. Bibijbr and Rimal Hopeful and so many helpful neighbors are fighting for us, for YOU, so please support the poll at www.jbrcommunity.com. Thankyou hannesjulian


----------



## Morrismarina

jumeirah said:


> Dear forumers and jbr landlords, once again I like to ask you urgently to help yourself and us to protect our investment at JBR, since the developer is not delivering what he promised. For example, 2 gyms instead of 7, which were promised by DP, a CARPARK to destroy OUR beach, which will be a severe safety hazard for children at the beach, (there are many reckless drivers!!!) no proper opening hours for the pools and a very long sad list of things which are not being taken care of in a professional way. Mr. Wasim Islam, Mr. Bibijbr and Rimal Hopeful and so many helpful neighbors are fighting for us, for YOU, so please support the poll at www.jbrcommunity.com. Thankyou hannesjulian


I have just come up with a fantastic idea.............why don't you post this in the JBR thread ??


----------



## investorppty

Is anyone able to assist me with current price per sq. foot for Sigma Tower and Sedrawan in Abud Dhabi?.....what are the current premiums for aboev projects and how far has the construction gone...


----------



## Sq123

I am still waiting for someone to re confirm the above points - 
please help !!


----------



## Wannaberich

Like I was saying,what's the most importnat thing to consider when buying in Dubai?
Considering the horror stories with regards to many developers, surely to choose one with a good reputation and track record is the most important?More so than location,price,style?
Even more important considering RERA are ineffective and don't seem to protect the investor/end user.
Opinions?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

As long as RERA approved ecrow is in place and your contract has been checked with a lawyer then the developer is not so much of an issue anymore. More important is price, location, design and quality. The worst case is you get only your money back with no profit.


----------



## Wannaberich

So if I go with a new developer,pay into escrow for a year,construction start is delayed,developer then pulls out and gives money back without interest thats ok?
Read the 'Eden Blue' post and then u may change your opinion.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

As I say "The worst case is you get only your money back with no profit."

RERA's new regulations now state that construction must start within 6 months of launch. So such problems should no longer be a problem with newer developments. The problem with Emaar is that their launch prices are now too high / overpriced.


----------



## Anjam

Deleted and posted here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=21883595#post21883595


----------



## IISinbadII

Wannaberich said:


> Like I was saying,what's the most importnat thing to consider when buying in Dubai?
> Considering the horror stories with regards to many developers, surely to choose one with a good reputation and track record is the most important?More so than location,price,style?
> Even more important considering RERA are ineffective and don't seem to protect the investor/end user.
> Opinions?


The most important thing is still the Location. The nearer it is to the city center, Metro station and SZR, the better it is.

The second important thing is the Stage of construction. A completed or near-completion property minimizes your risk of all those horror stories and delays. 

Third comes the View. The "vow" factor. Something that would give you an edge. 

IMO, There is nothing better than completed property at a prime location with a lovely view.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> As I say "The worst case is you get only your money back with no profit."
> 
> RERA's new regulations now state that construction must start within 6 months of launch. So such problems should no longer be a problem with newer developments. The problem with Emaar is that their launch prices are now too high / overpriced.


Unfortunatly construction starts isnt the only problem facing buyers.


----------



## 234sale

I went to Rak today.. Absolutely no differnce in construction from 6 months ago. As I always have said,, northern Emirates have MASSIVE utilities issues.


----------



## Wannaberich

---


----------



## montranieri

I invested in Dubai but I do not like the regime. They can change thing whenever they want and without asking anybody. It is risky, risky, risky. I understand when price per sqft was below 1000 dhs but now that we are on 2000 and above for good location you just tell me why we should continue to invest here in the middle of the desert when you can easily buy in New York, Paris, London for 4000 dhs as you are asked to pay here in Palm or Business bay.
Bah!!


----------



## makerian

madferrit said:


> Either way, thats very good advice. I have a question in addition what you wrote, maybe you'll know the answer.
> 
> With the off shore company setup, is there a minimum properties in the portfolio? What about any costs in running the company?


No minimum number of properties. RAK freezone company doesnt allow you to have more than one unless you register with them as property company. JAFZA had some issue as well which I now can't remember. I went in for a BVI company. Will cost $3000+ including attestation of documents in UAE so that you can conduct transactions in Dubai. From second year onwards, maintenance charges are $1200 approximately.


----------



## smussuw

^^ I dont like the regime either. They should stop treating the land as their personal propery and realize that the people here don't want the land to be sold to foreigners in the first place :banana:


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> ^^ I dont like the regime either. They should stop treating the land as their personal propery and realize that *the people here don't want the land to be sold to foreigners in the first place* :banana:


^^ You said it smussuw. The locals are unhappy. Is that the reason why they are taking a U-turn and want to abolish the property based residency visa?


----------



## agod

Surely this is all hearsay at the moment, what about the Government's own developers, that have made the same promise to their investors, the whole point of all this was to increase the population anyway, so I think it is all a rumour at the moment.

I was really looking forward to my retirement in Dubai :badnews:

Alan


----------



## 234sale

I think I am right in saying

"Emirati's and Emirati owned companies own more Land and Property overseas than Expats own in U.A.E"
"No Emirate gets an automatic visa in Europe/UK/USA why should the same be applied in reverse"

Maybe the Visa issue is being introduced with a long line of other measures to cool down the market.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Could be



IISinbadII said:


> ^^ You said it smussuw. The locals are unhappy. Is that the reason why they are taking a U-turn and want to abolish the property based residency visa?


I don't think so although I really wish it was.



agod said:


> Surely this is all hearsay at the moment, what about the Government's own developers, that have made the same promise to their investors, the whole point of all this was to increase the population anyway, so I think it is all a rumour at the moment.
> 
> I was really looking forward to my retirement in Dubai :badnews:
> 
> Alan


I really feel for you. Maybe they should do something like a retirement visa with some conditions? Like being over 60 and other conditions?

Owning a business could be a way too.


----------



## 234sale

montranieri said:


> I invested in Dubai but I do not like the regime. They can change thing whenever they want and without asking anybody. It is risky, risky, risky. I understand when price per sqft was below 1000 dhs but now that we are on 2000 and above for good location you just tell me why we should continue to invest here in the middle of the desert when you can easily buy in New York, Paris, London for 4000 dhs as you are asked to pay here in Palm or Business bay.
> Bah!!


Number one reason is .... TAX

Also City Business Districts are at least 5000AED sqft in the central districts. Try buying a flat around District 1/2 tube routes… 

Also they can change what ever they like in the European Union,, Like the Lisbon Treaty... No is Yes....

You think you live in a democracy and suddenly you realize that your vote doesn't count..

Id rather be in Dubai and realize that I am not in control of the system. But at least I am not paying 50% of my Salary to lazy people who do not want to, or can not to work.


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> "No Emirate gets an automatic visa in Europe/UK/USA why should the same be applied in reverse"
> 
> .


Because Dubai will collapse without all the foreigners to occupy all these units.Europe is not desperate for Emiratis.
Its arrogant of the Dubai goverment to think they can take the money of westerners/asians and not even give them visas.


----------



## agod

Thanks Smussuw, I suppose I could sell everything I have in Dubai, and try one of the other Emirates.

ALan


----------



## agod

Thanks Smussuw, I suppose I could sell everything I have in Dubai, and try one of the other Emirates.

ALan


----------



## IISinbadII

agod said:


> Thanks Smussuw, I suppose I could sell everything I have in Dubai, and try one of the other Emirates.


New visa rules shall be implemented at the federal level, so buying in other Emirates wont help. In fact. I think most of the negative impact could be felt at sub-prime locations in Emirates other than Dubai. Many people bought in far off places at low rates in the hope that, if nothing, at least they would get a residency visa and live/retire in these units themselves. Dubai on the other hand is the business hub and people need housing.


----------



## smussuw

People should wait to see what would be applied in reality. Most of what have been said here are just speculations !!



Wannaberich said:


> Because Dubai will collapse without all the foreigners to occupy all these units.Europe is not desperate for Emiratis.
> Its arrogant of the Dubai goverment to think they can take the money of westerners/asians and not even give them visas.


Thats an exaggeration, Dubai is bigger than properties being sold to foreigners.


----------



## High Times

I think a lot is being made of this visa U turn, which no doubt it is, but it is mearly a bueraucratic problem not a practical one.

I really dont see it preventing investors or migrants for that matter.

There will always be ways to have residency even if you dont actually have residency. Nearly all countries in the world restrict access to foreigners (exept England) then every somalian and his afghan brother is welcome to come and have free education and health care for life then an old age pension when they come off jobseekers allowance at age 65, (i digress).

Fact is that if the residency visa is not offered for investors, then you will be able to get one another way.

What do people who work for companies do now in Dubai ?

I assume they have employer sponsered working visa's of some kind. So guess what I just became an employee of this company that i own. I can think of many ways to play this game so i dont think it will bring the Dubai property market to a halt.

What bothers me more is the lack of trust/faith in the Dubai government that is beginning to gather momentum.

This cauld be very damaging, especially if our friends in the media pick it up.


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> Thats an exaggeration, Dubai is bigger than properties being sold to foreigners.


Thats right,Dubai doesnt need foreigners.The original population of 85 people
can easily sustain the trillions of units being built.


----------



## Pleth

234sale said:


> Number one reason is .... TAX
> 
> Also City Business Districts are at least 5000AED sqft in the central districts. Try buying a flat around District 1/2 tube routes…
> 
> Also they can change what ever they like in the European Union,, Like the Lisbon Treaty... No is Yes....
> 
> You think you live in a democracy and suddenly you realize that your vote doesn't count..
> 
> Id rather be in Dubai and realize that I am not in control of the system. But at least I am not paying 50% of my Salary to lazy people who do not want to, or can not to work.


I totally agree. :yes:


----------



## smussuw

Wannaberich said:


> Thats right,Dubai doesnt need foreigners.The original population of 85 people
> can easily sustain the trillions of units being built.


I didnt' say that and you know it.


----------



## BankerMan

Folks.......you guys are going into a tizzy over something that hasn't yet been introduced. Give it a break.......go ahead with your propert investments in Dubai. Nothing will ever be implement in Dubai that would negatively impact the property market. The ramifications of a downturn in the property market is colossal.

Once again, folks......don't panic, hold on to your properties because prices are going to shoot up even higher, almost as if there's no end to how high prices will go.


----------



## BankerMan

Folks.......you guys are going into a tizzy over something that hasn't yet been introduced. Give it a break.......go ahead with your propert investments in Dubai. Nothing will ever be implemented in Dubai that would negatively impact the property market. The ramifications of a downturn in the property market is colossal.

Once again, folks......don't panic, hold on to your properties because prices are going to shoot up even higher, almost as if there's no end to how high prices will go.


----------



## glover

foreign ownership of land in the UAE and the accompanying regulations is only few years old and is still kinda fluid, as evidenced by this visa mess. the government should have never allowed developers to advertise these visas in the first place if, as they say now, the property does not guarantee you a visa. so they have clearly messed up here.

having said that, no one is really forcing you to buy/hold any property in dubai or anywhere else for that matter. if you don't like what dubai and the UAE is, you could always sell (i am sure at a profit) and move to a greener pasture.



Wannaberich said:


> Because Dubai will collapse without all the foreigners to occupy all these units.Europe is not desperate for Emiratis.
> Its arrogant of the Dubai goverment to think they can take the money of westerners/asians and not even give them visas.


----------



## maryjo

Thanks. I will e-mail him and see if he can help me. So does that mean I don't have to go to the UAE embassy in London personally? I was having to take time off work to go down from Scotland so hoped it would be possible for them to arrange it for me. How long do you reckon it should take to get it all sorted? 

Thanks,


----------



## JM123

I am thinking about investing in RAK - Marjan Island (man made island) in a 1BR apt. with ocean view. It is selling for 1000 AED per sqft. Do you guys think, it is a good investment? How about Marjan Island from an investment point of view after seeing the 2 palms progress in Dubai? Thanks.


----------



## agod

Maryjo

If you get anything Notorised, you have to be there in person to sign it, they then stamp there seal on it or Notorise it....as your true Signature, and witnessed by them, you do have to present your passport and other I.D.

Notories are getting harder to find nowadays, and because most are solicitors as well, it doesn't pay to well, compared to there other work.

If you Google, Notaries in Scotland, you might find one closer, but the Documents still need to go to the UAE Embassy.

If you have to go to London, flights are pretty cheap right now to Dubai, it might be easier just to go there for a couple of days.

Alan


----------



## maryjo

alan,
would I need to go "in person" to the UAE Embassy in London or can the documents just be sent to them. I understand I have to be present to sign the documents initially, but that won't be aproblemas I am sure there is a Notary in the village where I stay, but it is the hassle of going down to London that I am not keen on. I have been looking at flight prices to Dubai, and as always, the flights to Dubai from Scotland are much more expensive than from England. 
So, is it definatley a Notory I need and not a solicitor?
Thank you to everyone for all your help. it is very much appreciated.


----------



## agod

Maryjo.

What Wannaberich says is correct, I used Savilles, but I live in London, that is the only difference, for all of us it is the same procedure, follow his instructions and you should be alright.

If I was picking up a nice cheque, I would be on the first plane out of here
Alan




Wannaberich said:


> Maryjo you need to set someone up with Power of Attorney in Dubai.Email
> Derek Grimley
> Exclusive Property Management
> PO Box 333589
> Dubai, U.A.E
> Tel no +971 4 341 6570
> Fax no +971 4 341 7090
> Mob no +971 50 459 7167
> www.exclusiveuae.com
> 
> Tell him you want to set him up with P.O.A.He will email you his passport copy
> and a form for you to sign.
> He rented out a unit for me over there and is trustworthy.
> You then get it 'notarised' from either a local notary or this guy:
> Saville & Co Notaries One Carey Lane EC2V 8AE London
> Telephone : 00 44 20 79200000 ontact Mr Nicholas Thompson:
> They will then send it to the UAE Embassy London who will then send it back to
> Saville @ Co who will then send it to Dubai to Derek Grimley.
> I think I got this right.However ring Mr Thompson and he will better explain it.
> Total cost around £200/300.Then for Derek to check out the transfer documents when u sell and sign it over at the transfer is around £100/150.


----------



## HarryKane

maryjo said:


> the flights to Dubai from Scotland are much more expensive than from England.


Not always. On some dates, the direct Emirates flight from Glasgow is much cheaper than from Manchester.


----------



## IISinbadII

maryjo said:


> Thankyou Sinbad. So do you think I may be better to see if I can get more that £58,000 since the net price is £61,000 or would I be best accepting the £58,000?


You should ask for more and it should be net to you. Call several agents that are active in Int. City area and see what they have to offer. Also market is slow during summer. If you can wait till winter you could possibly get an even higher price.


----------



## Wannaberich

Maryjo you don't have to go to London.Find a local notary.There were several in my local yellow pages so I imagine you would have the same.
You then send the paperwork to Savilles and they in turn send it to teh UAE embassy like I said.It will take around 2/3 weeks before it gets sent to Dubai.


----------



## malec

Abu Dhabi investment thread created here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=656938

I didn't know where to put it but most of the stuff is on reem island so decided to put it there.


----------



## Wannaberich

Can someone please explain exactly how does the increasing oil prices help push up real estate prices in Dubai?


----------



## IISinbadII

Wannaberich said:


> Can someone please explain exactly how does the increasing oil prices help push up real estate prices in Dubai?


Here is one theory:

Increasing oil prices -> more income for govt. -> more govt. spending -> more money in the hands of people -> more affordability -> more real estate prices. 

Having said that, IMO its more of a supply and demand economics at works. Plus increasing cost of land, increased cost of construction, delays and more delays.......that pushes the prices higher.


----------



## Wannaberich

IISinbadII said:


> Here is one theory:
> 
> Increasing oil prices -> more income for govt. -> more govt. spending -> more money in the hands of people -> more affordability -> more real estate prices.
> 
> Having said that, IMO its more of a supply and demand economics at works. Plus increasing cost of land, increased cost of construction, delays and more delays.......that pushes the prices higher.


I agree its more about rising construction costs etc,however would be nice to know how oil prices has an effect.


----------



## DUBAI

Wannaberich said:


> Can someone please explain exactly how does the increasing oil prices help push up real estate prices in Dubai?



When you spend all that extra money on petrol, a chunk of the money eventualy filters through to the countries the oil came from. ergo, the gulf states.

they look to distribute this money to their citizens either directly, or though business dealings.

populations become wealthier, look to invest. A house in Dubai is nice: Increace in demand.

Similarly sovereign wealth funds also see this inccreace in demand and invest in dubai.

Prices rise, as more and more money enters the market.

and everyone hopes the music doesnt stop!


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai on Sky News !


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...024734?lpos=World+News_0&lid=ARTICLE_15024734


Isnt there a thread somewhere here called 'Dubai in the news'?


----------



## Joannides

*Emmar no longer sponsoring 3rd party developer residence visa apps*

hi,

i've been trying to get a residence visa based on an apartment i own in the marina, although Emaar now claim that their policy has changed last month where they no longer sponsor residence visa applications from any 3rd party developers. they will continue to do so for apartments bought direct through Emaar. they told me i needed to get my developer to sponsor, when everyone knows that that only the master developers can do so, which i confirmed with my developer and also with immigration!!! 

has anyone else had a similar experience or any news on this?


----------



## 999bbb

JM123 said:


> I am thinking about investing in RAK - Marjan Island (man made island) in a 1BR apt. with ocean view. It is selling for 1000 AED per sqft. Do you guys think, it is a good investment? How about Marjan Island from an investment point of view after seeing the 2 palms progress in Dubai? Thanks.


1,000 aed good price now on AMI but Depends on payment plan, premium , developemeNt etc etc let us have detail and we can advise


----------



## JM123

*AMI*



999bbb said:


> 1,000 aed good price now on AMI but Depends on payment plan, premium , developemeNt etc etc let us have detail and we can advise



Hi, Thanks for replying back to my question. Development is by Select Property Group called the Pacific. 1BR with Ocean views. 772 sqft. Development completion is June, 2011. I am picking the standard payment plan, thus avoiding the interest. No premium, as it is first (off-plan) sale. Payments are divided into 7 parts. Due every 6 months. 7th/last one will be due upon completion. Escrow account in place. Please advise. Thanks.


----------



## casj_75

JM123 said:


> Hi, Thanks for replying back to my question. Development is by Select Property Group called the Pacific. 1BR with Ocean views. 772 sqft. Development completion is June, 2011. I am picking the standard payment plan, thus avoiding the interest. No premium, as it is first (off-plan) sale. Payments are divided into 7 parts. Due every 6 months. 7th/last one will be due upon completion. Escrow account in place. Please advise. Thanks.


What building is it? and what floor is it? and what apartment nr.? (see SP floor plan). I have a 1 Bed room nr. 12 on the 1. floor with full sea view. Price the same.


----------



## High Times

JM123 said:


> I am thinking about investing in RAK - Marjan Island (man made island) in a 1BR apt. with ocean view. It is selling for 1000 AED per sqft. Do you guys think, it is a good investment? How about Marjan Island from an investment point of view after seeing the 2 palms progress in Dubai? Thanks.


Personaly i think AED 1,000 psf is expensive for RAK at this stage. There is no evidence that this Emirate will offer the same potential for income/growth as Dubai.

That to me is a Dubai priced unit in an area that will never offer the same benefits.

Just my opinion, good luck.


----------



## Alt-Tab

*Dubai hotels at record lows - where have all the visitors gone?*

Jul 07, 2008 Mona Singh 

http://kippreport.com/article.php?articleid=1383

There's a quiet desperation in Dubai hotels, which have seen occupancies plummet this summer. Reliable sources told Kipp Report that average occupancy in city hotels at the end of June was 56%; the swanky new Raffles was struggling thanks to a high-rate, no-beach double whammy at 19%, while the Grand Hyatt was at 40%. The latter denies this figure. It does admit occupancy is a little lower so far this summer, but says the current rate is around 70%.

Even so, compared to last year, when DTCM claimed record occupancies of 85%, ahead of Hong Kong, Sydney, Tokyo and London and nobody was discounting rooms in Dubai, this year one can walk into most hotels at half price. Each is coping with whatever strategy best suits its market positioning, but nobody dare admit officially that there is a problem.

General opinion suggests the situation could be a combination of factors, some external - like the globally depressed economic scenario and higher cost of flights thanks to spiralling oil prices - but there is a nagging suspicion the city has been rumbled: strained infrastructure, choked roads, few transport options, ugly cranes and little to do beyond malls.

Travel agents would add greedy hotels to the litany: when the sun shone brightly on Dubai three, even two years ago, most hotels happily raked in as much as they could with four-star properties increasing rates to an extortionate Dh800-1,200.

This year, the city finds itself excluded from brochures of leading European travel agents, who would rather sell holidays to Sri Lanka, Thailand or other exotic destination that, one assumes, offer more by way of enriching experiences at lower prices. Ironically, Thomson Holidays, Europe's leading travel agency now recommends Israel as the only destination worth visiting under 'Middle East

AltTab


----------



## Alt-Tab

If occupancy rates at Dubai hotels *really* have fallen, then i think we should be worried. Last summer Dubai hotels claimed they maintained summer occupancy rates at over 80%

Dubailand really needs to deliver some theme parks, why has it taken 4 years just to break ground?

AltTab


----------



## Richard Head

This isn't particularly good news, but it definitely rings true. when I came to Dubai 9 years ago there were amazing deals in all the hotels during summer, I remember staying in an executive club room on 40+ floor of Emirates towers for AED 450 amongst many others. Last couple of years these deals have dried up, but this year they are definitely back in good numbers. 

Let's hope the dummy spitting contest in Iran doesn't turn into something bigger !!!!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think we should expect this year to have an all time low in hotel occupancy figures. There is no reason to vacation in Dubai this year. Too much construction going on and too high costs with nothing to do when you are there. Shopping is too expensive as are hotels and the only beach worth going to at the moment is Jumeirah beach Hotel area which is more expensive than a comparible beach somewhere else in the world.

Atlantis will give hotel sales a boost at the end of the year and next year. But Dubai desperately needs more entertainment and fast. Burj Dubai completion end of next year will help a little especially with the huge fountain there also. But theme parks are needed. I expect to see a big drop in tourism for several years yet. 

Also the marina is not an attraction yet with construction schedules for 6 more years with huge ugly Marina Sky Towers offices rumoured to be going up in the tourist phase 1 area of the marina.

In addition the credit crunch, higher oil prices and recession in the west is making everyone feel poorer and not willing to splash out on expensive overpriced luxury holidays.


----------



## smussuw

According to Al Ittihad newspaper the World Travel and Toursim Council said that the UAE will attract 10 million tourists this year 2008.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> I think we should expect this year to have an all time low in hotel occupancy figures. There is no reason to vacation in Dubai this year. Too much construction going on and too high costs with nothing to do when you are there. Shopping is too expensive as are hotels and the only beach worth going to at the moment is Jumeirah beach Hotel area which is more expensive than a comparible beach somewhere else in the world.
> 
> Atlantis will give hotel sales a boost at the end of the year and next year. But Dubai desperately needs more entertainment and fast. Burj Dubai completion end of next year will help a little especially with the huge fountain there also. But theme parks are needed. I expect to see a big drop in tourism for several years yet.
> 
> Also the marina is not an attraction yet with construction schedules for 6 more years with huge ugly Marina Sky Towers offices rumoured to be going up in the tourist phase 1 area of the marina.
> 
> In addition the credit crunch, higher oil prices and recession in the west is making everyone feel poorer and not willing to splash out on expensive overpriced luxury holidays.



Time you resigned from your job with the Dubai tourist board.
Personally I think there's enough in Dubai now for a holiday.Jumeriah Beach,JBR,Marina is good,Ski Dubai,Souks,Creek,Cable Car,great bars/restaurants,Wild Wadi,4x4 in the desert.Soon will be the biggest mall in the world open plus more water fun at Atlantis.
Ok so next year will be better,but then so will the year after and the year after that.Where do you draw the line.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ All those things are perhaps enough to attract first time visitors for a short stay but repeat visitors would not be attracted at current prices. Too much other more interesting things to see in the world for cheaper. Dubai needs to complete some things before it expects to see high occupancy rates at current prices again.


----------



## malec

Maybe hotels shouldn't be so insanely expensive. I could never afford $500 a night for example.
Hopefully this will see the rates come down a bit.


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Yeah, something like AED 200 per person per night for a 3 star hotel.


----------



## dubayyy

*Hotel rates*

I can confirm that Hotels are quiet in Dubai just now. But not so different from this time last year.

I stayed at Shangri La last week for 850dhs. Normally I would pay around 1800dhs for this in high season. 

Also the Grosvenor House (1100dhs as opposed to normal rates of 2100dhs) and Fairmont (750dhs when i have previously paid 1900dhs+) show how slow business must be at the moment.

I long for the days in 2003 when I could get the Crowne plaza for 200dhs.

Real estate agents have also noticed a dip in the market over last few weeks - many are hoping its just a summer slump and not related to the wider credit crunch and are banking on CityScape in October to give the market another boost.


----------



## glover

i think hotel rates should come down to earth. the thing with dubai is that you have few 2-3 star hotels overall, so tourists don't have much choice when it comes to prices!! hope this changes in the future, though i hear it's a deliberate government policy so that the "luxury" image of dubai is not tarnished!!


----------



## Wannaberich

dubayyy said:


> Real estate agents have also noticed a dip in the market over last few weeks - many are hoping its just a summer slump and not related to the .


There's always a summer slump so I'm told.As for the credit crunch,with countries such as USA and UK suffering from real estate price declines,
these people may turn to Dubai insead to invest.With Sky News
reporting the other day how the credit crunch hasn't impacted on Dubai and prices are shooting up,this will encourage more investment.
As for places like India and China who are investing heavily in Dubai,I'm not sure how the credit crunch is having an impact there so how that might affect Dubai.
As for hotel prices,its one thing to entice the estimated 15million tourists per year,but surely to do so will require cheaper hotels.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

An opprotunity then at the moment for apartment owners to rent their units short term to vacationers rather than them using expensive hotels.


----------



## jeetha

Anyone have apartment for 5 nights from 15/12/2008 pm me with rates.


----------



## carpetking

jeetha said:


> Anyone have apartment for 5 nights from 15/12/2008 pm me with rates.


available from 15.12 to 20.12.2008


look at www.timeplacedubaimarina.com :cheers:


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ All those things are perhaps enough to attract first time visitors for a short stay but repeat visitors would not be attracted at current prices. Too much other more interesting things to see in the world for cheaper. Dubai needs to complete some things before it expects to see high occupancy rates at current prices again.



Regards repeat visitors,Dubai I would imagine is attracting
alot of first timers and will continue to do even more as projects are completed.Remember,Dubai is still very new on the world tourism map.

Ive read a number of times that Dubai has one of the highest occupancy rates in hotels in the world.Probably one of the reasons why rates are so high,hotels know they can fill their rooms with sky high proces.
Its a shame developments like Bawadi with 51 hotels will have mainly 4/5 star.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think Bawadi needs to be 4 or 5 star as these huge hotels themselves will be the attractions, containing theatres shows and entertainment. Part of the fun will be visiting them all to see what they are like inside. Same as vegas.


----------



## DaYFox

I will be in Dubai from the 29th Nov until the 6th Dec. Does anyone has an appartment to rent for or can secure me a place to stay?  (2Pax) 
Please PM me!
THX


----------



## DUBAI

Is 2pax some sort of rap reference?


----------



## Naz UK

RIP


----------



## FWIW

^^ LOL - You're a funny guy!


----------



## jixline

based on wat do you imply that such thing might happen


----------



## Cyrus55

I think Dubai house prices have riched its highest and maybe soon we see a sharp fall of hous prices in Dubai!
I can not understand if someone would pay 6-7 mil derham for a one bedroom flat to have a view of burj Dubai? Who would buy it and for what reason someone would pay so much money to have a tall tower as veiw?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ That is a serviced apartment so it is still possible to make money from it by running as a hotel room with Burj / fountain view and direct access to metro. However I would worry about the resale price of that. On the other hand in the marina it is still possible to buy a 1 bed with view for 1.2m so prices have a long way to go yet there. Also Abu Dhabi prices have overtaken Dubai so Dubai is now a cheaper option than Abu Dhabi.


----------



## casj_75

RAK govt makes Escrow mandatory:

http://archive.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10228522.html


----------



## Cyrus55

Property prices are going down in the US and UK and the question is if the UAE property market would be effected?


----------



## High Times

NO


----------



## detract

Effected yes, go down probably not. Different factors at play here. Most property in the US and to a degree UK was with shady mortgage deals. Banks lent to easily and are now paying the price with bad loans/securitised paper near worthless. Whats fueling the Dubai market is:

1. High oil prices which requires re-investing (local and other ME investors)
2. High commodity prices (explains why Russians are investing)
3. High growth in BRIC countries (Why Indians are investing)
4. Better quality loans - more difficult to secure a large mortgage in Dubai due to being an immature market.
5. Oversupply? maybe in commercial, you need companies/people to fill those offices. But residential is different, the target market is not only local its global.

As long as Dubai remains finincially attractive - improves transport infrastructure things can be sustained maybe peaking off.

Anyway I've always see Dubai as an oil hedge - if oil prices remain high so will property prices (until the oil runs out!). Only thing is to keep inflation in check and watching out on the dhiram/usd peg.

my two cents.


----------



## agod

Yes I agree, but a lot of people just dimissed it, and missed the bargains that where to be had.

Alan


----------



## Wannaberich

agod said:


> Yes I agree, but a lot of people just dimissed it, and missed the bargains that where to be had.
> 
> Alan


Exactly.DSO is the dark horse of Dubai.No-one takes any notice but now its really coming together.65 projects with 40% commercial means great renting potential.Also with companies like Porshe putting their design centres here,it shows the prestige of DSO.


----------



## glover

the CEO of RAK's Rakeen completely denied today in the Arabic daily al-bayan that he said RAK will give residency visas to property buyers. visa regulations is a federal issue and is not up to each emirate to decide, he added, and reiterated the government position that owning property does not guarantee you a visa.


----------



## Raza01

Yesterday that news was even on TV that they want give long term visas to property buyers for increasing investors confidence and for boosting emirates economy. One day they give one news and other they thought something else and reject it by some body else.


----------



## glover

the CEO of RAK's Rakeen is the guy who supposedly said that yesterday. he said he was misquoted.


----------



## smussuw

Richard Head said:


> Let's not also forget that many of the wealthiest families in Dubai are Iranians if you go back 2 or 3 generations. I may be wrong on the specifics, but I believe that the Al-Futtaims and the Galadari's are amongst these, together with numerous others. I guess that puts UAE in a difficult conflict of interest situation if it does kick off, but we should be fairly safe from Iranian reprisals (I hope).
> 
> In other news, just when you thought Naz must have exhausted his ability to talk utter shite in almost every thread on this forum, he surprises us all and excels himself yet again with the gem of wisdom above.


Galadari is from Iranian origins but not Al-Futtaim. I don't think that there will be a conflict because most of the Emirati billioners from Iranian origins are sunni, they have no relation with Iran at all. In fact, most of them despise Iran from what I see !


----------



## bizzybonita

*common sense !*

Dubai residential prices could ease in 2010 on demand-supply balance

Published: July 17, 2008, 00:05


Dubai: House prices in Dubai are set to moderate in 2010, as supply and demand begin to strike a balance, according to industry analysts.

Robert McKinnon, managing director of Al Mal Capital Research, said: "Into next year we expect prices to begin to moderate, though not substantially."

There has been a flurry of predictions in recent days over Dubai's supply and demand situation in 2010, especially with the massive bulk of units set to hit the market coupled with the Dh6 billion in escrow accounts.

"*As delays continue to plague the industry, we do not expect supply and demand to come into balance until 2010," Robert McKinnon, managing director at Al Mal Capital Research, told Gulf News*. 


The report says, according to the Dubai real estate price index there has been a year-on-year price appreciation of 40.8 per cent in the residential segment. 

Prices in the commercial segment have increased around 42.7 per cent within the same period.

Average rates

Figures from Al Mal show the average rent in Dubai in June 2007 was Dh1,291 per square foot. Average rent in June 2008 was Dh1,818, representing a year-on-year increase of 40.8 per cent.

Blair Hagkull, managing director of Jones Lang LaSalle, Middle East and North Africa region, said *better quality housing in central locations that are well maintained and have good infrastructure will always demand higher rents in the future. *

"Clearly, the rate of increase in the last five years, in terms of residential prices, is not sustainable. Rates have increased to a point where the price is a concern," Hagkull said.

*Locations such as Barsha and Jumeirah Lake Towers, good quality accommodation with good links to public transport, will see the greatest rises in prices.*

"*At some stage, the Dubai Metro will play an important role in what people will pay. If you live close to a station, then that accommodation will be more expensive*," Hagkull said.

For commercial properties, Al Mal said the average rent in June 2007 was Dh1,444 per square foot while the average rent in June 2008 was Dh2,060. This represents an increase of around 42.7 per cent. However, Matthew Hammond, managing director of Jones Lang LaSalle, said: "*We anticipate rents [in commercial properties] will continue to increase over the next 12 months, if not 24 months, until more stock comes on to the market*." 

*Hammond said with the rising costs of materials, many developers have been forced to slow down development plans, thereby causing delays in the market. *

"*Properties that were due to come on in 2009-2010, have now been pushed back to 2011-2012*," he said.

*Hammond said the average rent for office space in DIFC is around Dh500 per square foot but new buildings will be around Dh600 per square foot, plus management fee.*


----------



## Garden city

Is it just me or did anyone else get a feeling that some of the big developers are delaying their projects just to avoid flooding the market with ready apartments? Some of my friends who had invested in discovery gardens are telling now that the handover date is being postponed although the project was going as per schedule. I believe that dubai government realised this and that is why the big companies in which they own a stake i.e. EMAAR, Nakheel, Dubai Properties are delaying some of their projects.


----------



## Richard Head

smussuw said:


> Galadari is from Iranian origins but not Al-Futtaim. I don't think that there will be a conflict because most of the Emirati billioners from Iranian origins are sunni, they have no relation with Iran at all. In fact, most of them despise Iran from what I see !


Thanks Smussuw, just out of interest which are the other big Dubai families of Iranian origin?


----------



## High Times

Garden city said:


> Is it just me or did anyone else get a feeling that some of the big developers are delaying their projects just to avoid flooding the market with ready apartments? Some of my friends who had invested in discovery gardens are telling now that the handover date is being postponed although the project was going as per schedule. I believe that dubai government realised this and that is why the big companies in which they own a stake i.e. EMAAR, Nakheel, Dubai Properties are delaying some of their projects.


Correct,

The Gov of Dubai have control of the supply/demand ratio. They also have control over rent increases which in turn control prices. Soon they will have zones with price caps on them.

It seems to me that Dubai is trying to achive a sort of centrally controlled capitalist market. In some respects this may not be suach a bad thing as they are keen for Dubai to achieve sustained growth in all the major sectors such as business, property, tourism etc.

The west is currently learning to it's peril what happens when you let corporations do things their way without intervention and tight regulatory control.


----------



## smussuw

Richard Head said:


> Thanks Smussuw, just out of interest which are the other big Dubai families of Iranian origin?


Al Faheem, Gergash, Al Tajer, Al Rostomani, Sharaf, Kathim, Khouri ........


----------



## Sasha22

*Rigel @ Jumeirah Village*

can any one advise about the Rigel project in Jumeirah Village ? It is priced between 950 - 1110 per sqf and is from abcl properties - Fortune Group. does it have good chance of appreciation ?

The payment plan is linked to construction progress.


----------



## Mavekris

smussuw said:


> Al Faheem, Gergash, Al Tajer, Al Rostomani, Sharaf, Kathim, Khouri ........


^^HI Smussuw 

Is there any reason why Alfuttaim in not holding any ministry nor active in politics even though he is Actual UAE citizen.

Why is he not making use of the construction boom ( apart from festival city)- others have made so much money cashing in on the construction boom.

Alfuttaim has carillion which is know to have very good standards

Appreciate your reply


----------



## Mavekris

High Times said:


> Correct,
> 
> The Gov of Dubai have control of the supply/demand ratio. They also have control over rent increases which in turn control prices. Soon they will have zones with price caps on them.
> 
> It seems to me that Dubai is trying to achive a sort of centrally controlled capitalist market. In some respects this may not be suach a bad thing as they are keen for Dubai to achieve sustained growth in all the major sectors such as business, property, tourism etc.
> 
> The west is currently learning to it's peril what happens when you let corporations do things their way without intervention and tight regulatory control.



^^23 buildings from tamweel will be handed over next week.
so congrats to DG owners 
Excellent appreciation in the last 6 months almost doubled in price and so much rental demand


----------



## smussuw

Mavekris said:


> ^^HI Smussuw
> 
> Is there any reason why Alfuttaim in not holding any ministry nor active in politics even though he is Actual UAE citizen.
> 
> Why is he not making use of the construction boom ( apart from festival city)- others have made so much money cashing in on the construction boom.
> 
> Alfuttaim has carillion which is know to have very good standards
> 
> Appreciate your reply


Well, I don't know what Al Futtaim has in his mind (there are actually two Al Futtaims MAF group and Al Futtaim group) :tongue2: 

This is like saying why Bill Gates doesn't involve in politics. Well, being active in politics is defined by only one thing which is the relation and contacts with the royal familiy, period ! If they want him they would if they do not they wouldn't. Not to say that Al Futtaim doesn't have that relation but he is a businessman and usually businessmen here do not involve in politics. There are some big families who became rich because of their relation with the royal family and were part of the government from the beginning but the other way around is not usual. I can safely say that in most of the cases in the UAE, there is no relation between political powers and being rich because at the end of the day the actual power is within the royal families. There are some cases of business families like Al Ghurair who is now the speaker of the parliment and Gergash who is the minister of exterior affairs but there are billions of the reasons on why they were chosen and they aren't necessery related to them being rich !

The reason why they didn't fully take advantage of this boom is a mystery to me. Maybe because they are full of cash already?  But that doesn't mean that they didnt benefit. Al Futtaim has Dubai Fesitval City (land granted for free from the government) and project worth billions in Egypt, Syria, Bahrain and Oman. They have many properities accorss the country and the distributer of Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Dodge, Jeep and Chrysler. They own half the country 

From what I've heard the curent relation between Al Futtaim and Sheikh Mohammed is not that good but those are just rumors and could have relation with what I said earlier, although unlikely. Because then again, if Al Futtaim wanted to involve in politics, they could've done that years ago when they had a good relation and not now.


----------



## dubaigreen

Universum around the "world" ??

May be you already have discussed it, but I met a friend tonight who is reponsible for building the new harbor in Dubai (Rashid), and he will bid for the new Universum Islands around the world as well. Wouuhh, when I saw this the first time, I thought this is a joke, but it seems real, this is 400 million cubic sand, to create a new chain of islands around the world. Is this madness or brilliant?


----------



## Naz UK

er..... madness.


----------



## abf

Garden city said:


> Is it just me or did anyone else get a feeling that some of the big developers are delaying their projects just to avoid flooding the market with ready apartments? Some of my friends who had invested in discovery gardens are telling now that the handover date is being postponed although the project was going as per schedule. I believe that dubai government realised this and that is why the big companies in which they own a stake i.e. EMAAR, Nakheel, Dubai Properties are delaying some of their projects.


It appears it has been going on for sometime - ever since Dubai/UAE realized that selling off plan was so lucrative especially if finished stock could be delayed - and lo and behold - then came the commodity prices! 

The good thing about UAE is that so far there have not been massive scandals - if it maintains its reputation it will indeed be a great success story.


----------



## London2Manila

SCANDALS ?

What about Deyaar ?

Packed full of thieving criminals!

Running off with all my money for my offplan in Churchill and then taking the development off the site !!!!!!!










(well maybe they didnt run off with all the money but they took churchill off the site, dont anwser emails and are generally disinterested unless asking for a stage payment)


----------



## Naz UK

Well, when your CEO's in prison, it becomes a bit hard to carry on business as usual.


----------



## Cyrus55

abf said:


> It appears it has been going on for sometime - ever since Dubai/UAE realized that selling off plan was so lucrative especially if finished stock could be delayed - and lo and behold - then came the commodity prices!
> 
> The good thing about UAE is that so far there have not been massive scandals - if it maintains its reputation it will indeed be a great success story.


What about Tameer? No Al salam city? No compensations? This is a Scandal mate!


----------



## IISinbadII

*Schon's insider view on the Dubai property market*

United Arab Emirates: Thursday, July 17 - 2008

Danial Schon, Vice President of Schon Properties, talks to AME Info about the Dubai real estate market, which sectors investors should be looking into for the biggest returns and why he thinks that prices across the city can only keep increasing.

Schon Properties is well established in Dubai's property market.

The company already has four projects under development.

Its flagship residential projects are the Dubai Lagoon development and Schon Suites and the latest launch, the Signet project in Jebel Ali.

The Signet is a mixed-use development that will allow people to make use of one space for their business and residential needs.

This, Schon believes, will prove popular in the face of ever-increasing commercial rental costs.

'This project was made keeping small businesses in mind.

'The biggest problem for these people when they move to Dubai is that, because of the rising costs of rent they can never find a place.'

Recent reports that home owners would not be automatically eligible for residency visas have added further questions for investors from outside the GCC.

'I think that everybody is still seeking clarification on that,' says Schon.

'But I know that the government of Dubai is so pro-business, and the policies are for the benefit of the economy, buyers, end users and so on, that the final decision will work in everybody's favour. I don't think that it will be a case of 'we were promised this but didn't get it'.

'But we do tell our buyers that the residency visas will be subject to approvals at that time. We don't know what they might be, laws change all over the world, so we don't say that you're guaranteed a visa.'

*Most profitable branch of Dubai's real estate market*

Of the various projects springing up across the city, all are designed to attract investors.

But though prices are spiralling in the residential, commercial and hospitality sectors, Schon believes that, for individuals, the latter will bring the best returns.

'Serviced hotel apartments are definitely the most profitable, because Dubai is built on tourism. You see the campaigns all around the world.

'We launched a project called Schon Suites about three months ago. The concept is that all the rent goes into a pool, then an independent auditor distributes the rent equally according to your percentage ownership of the building.

'It's for people who can't build hotels themselves. And it's a very good return, the projected yields come up to 20% per year - that's on 10 year historical information from the Department of tourism and Commerce Marketing, the inflation rate and so on. We've done extensive research on this and the numbers are phenomenal.'

*Dubai property prices to increase*

Almost all developments have shown these increases.

Most of the projects in Dubai have posited double-digit growth over a 12-month period.

This growth, driven in part by speculation and supply shortages, will not slow down as more properties come online, Schon believes. The root cause of the price escalation is down to the construction component.

'*I think prices have a long way to go yet,' he says. 'Mainly due to the rising cost of construction, which is detrimental to the industry as a whole*.'

Global factors, such as China's decision to increase payments for steel imports by 40% above market rate, are continuing to have a local consequence.

'Things like that have a huge effect. The minute you've purchased your steel it's already going up 1.5% per month, that's the rate that we calculate construction inflation at for our contingencies.

'What this does is that it drives prices up, because it controls supply but the demand is still high. So, prices have a long way to go. *People ask me why property is so expensive - the most important thing in development is not hype, it's not marketing or sales, it's delivery. If developers don't price at the risk of tomorrow's costs, then they will lose money. And, if that happens, the quality suffers.'

Increased regulation helps property market*

'The creation of Rera [Real Estate Regulatory Authority] will ensure that it never gets to the point where the credibility of Dubai is affected, because they will step in,' Schon notes.

Rera is a prime example of how Dubai's property landscape has changed, partly in response to concerns over the lack of transparency in the market. Government legislation has enforced a set standard of regulation among the city's developers and agents.

'Every transaction is regulated, everything is transparent. You have to set up an escrow account before anything is sold now,' he agrees. 'We also have green building guidelines to follow.'

Thanks to initiatives like these, Schon is convinced that the upward trend is certain to continue, and that investors should take advantage of the opportunities on offer.

'*We were offered plots in 2002 that we didn't go for, because analysts were saying 'the bubble's about to burst'. These are the same reports that are still going around now. Anyone who says that is not looking at the whole picture.*

'Dubai is the centre of the region for property, there are also investors from Iran, Pakistan, India. Even Chinese groups have started investing here. Everybody wants to be involved.'

http://www.ameinfo.com/cgi-bin/cms/page.cgi?page=print;link=163829


----------



## Cyrus55

If buyers won't be able to get residence visa, I think it would put off people to invest in the UAE. People want to invest somewhere where their investment is safe and has a reasonable appreciation . 
I personally don't want any residence visa, because I don't like and don't wish to live in Dubai but as an investor I am having a secound thought to have further investment in the UAE.


----------



## Wannaberich

I find it strange you don't like Dubai but are ok to invest there?


----------



## salar

*Dubailagoon*

Schon properties need to finish dubailagoon project were the hand over is already delayed one year and no construction started yet befor they start talk about duai market.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=292680&page=84


----------



## dubai_nomad

salar said:


> Schon properties need to finish dubailagoon project were the hand over is already delayed one year and no construction started yet befor they start talk about duai market.
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=292680&page=84


Agreed. I have learnt to take anything from ameinfo with a handful of salt. What Dubai Market needs are indepentant reporters who are not heavily influcenced by the goverment.


----------



## Sasha22

*ADVISE*

can any one advise about the Rigel project in Jumeirah Village ? It is priced between 950 - 1110 per sqf and is from abcl properties - Fortune Group. does it have good chance of appreciation ?

The payment plan is linked to construction progress.


----------



## carpetking

New property offers at:

http://www.timeplacetower-dubai.com/timeplace/cms/front_content.php?idcat=91


----------



## London2Manila

So what is happening with Deyaar, is it still safe for us to make more stage payments ?

Why dont they anwser emails ?


----------



## smussuw

^^ Dont worry about Deyaar, it is partially owned by the government and listed in the financial market.


----------



## True Blue

*The global economy is at the point of maximum danger*
By Ambrose Evans- Pritchard
Last Updated: 6:53am BST 21/07/2008



_It feels like the summer of 1931. The world's two biggest financial institutions have had a heart attack. The global currency system is breaking down. The policy doctrines that got us into this mess are bankrupt. No world leader seems able to discern the problem, let alone forge a solution.

The International Monetary Fund has abdicated into schizophrenia. It has upgraded its 2008 world forecast from 3.7pc to 4.1pc growth, whilst warning of a "chance of a global recession". Plainly, the IMF cannot or will not offer any useful insights.

Its "mean-reversion" model misses the entire point of this crisis, which is that central banks have pushed debt to fatal levels by holding interest too low for a generation, and now the chickens have come home to roost. True "mean-reversion" would imply debt deflation on such a scale that would, if abrupt, threaten democracy.

The risk is that these same central banks will commit a fresh error, this time overreacting to the oil spike. The European Central Bank has raised rates, warning of a 1970s wage-price spiral. Fixated on the rear-view mirror, it is not looking through the windscreen.

The eurozone is falling into recession before the US itself. Its level of credit stress is worse, if measured by Euribor or the iTraxx bond indexes. Core inflation has fallen over the last year from 1.9pc to 1.8pc.

The US may soon tip into a second leg of this crisis as the fiscal package runs out and Americans lose jobs in earnest. US bank credit has contracted for three months. Real US wages fell at almost 10pc (annualised) over May and June. This is a ferocious squeeze for an economy already in the grip of the property and debt crunch.

No doubt the rescue of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - $5.3 trillion pillars of America's mortgage market - stinks of moral hazard. The Treasury is to buy shares: the Fed has opened its window yet wider. Risks have been socialised. Any rewards will go to capitalists.

Alas, no Scandinavian discipline for Wall Street. When Norway's banks fell below critical capital levels in the early 1990s, the Storting authorised seizure. Shareholders were stiffed.

But Nordic purism in the vast universe of US credit would court fate. The Californian lender IndyMac was indeed seized after depositors panicked on the streets of Encino. The police had to restore order. This was America's Northern Rock moment.

IndyMac will deplete a tenth of the $53bn reserve of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. The FDIC has some 90 "troubled" lenders on watch. IndyMac was not one of them.

The awful reality is that Washington has its back to the wall. Fed chief Ben Bernanke thought the US could always get out of trouble by monetary stimulus "à l'outrance", and letting the dollar slide. He has learned that the world is a more complicated place.

Oil has queered the pitch. So has America's fatal reliance on foreign debt. The Fannie/Freddie rescue, incidentally, has just lifted the US national debt from German 'AAA' levels to Italian 'AA-' levels.

China, Russia, petro-powers and other foreign states own $985bn of US agency debt, besides holdings of US Treasuries. Purchases of Fannie/Freddie debt covered a third of the US current account deficit of $700bn over the last year. Alex Patelis from Merrill Lynch says America faces the risk of a "financing crisis" within months. Foreigners have a veto over US policy.

Japan did not have this problem during its Lost Decade. As the world's supplier of credit, it could let the yen slide. It also had a savings rate of 15pc. Albert Edwards from Société Générale says this has fallen to 3pc today. It has cushioned the slump. Americans are under water before they start.

My view is that a dollar crash will be averted as it becomes clearer that contagion has spread worldwide. But we are now at the point of maximum danger. Britain, Japan, and the Antipodes are stalling. Denmark is in recession. Germany contracted in the second quarter. May industrial output fell 6pc in Holland and 5.5pc in Sweden.

The coalitions in Belgium and Austria have just collapsed. Germany's left-right team is fraying. One German banker told me that the doctrines of "left Nazism" (Otto Strasser's group, purged by Hitler) had captured the rising Die Linke party. The Social Democrats are picking up its themes to protect their flank.

This is the healthy part of Europe. Further south, we are not far away from civic protest. BNP Paribas has just issued a hurricane alert for Spain.

Finance minister Pedro Solbes said Spain is facing the "most complex" economic crisis in its history. Actually, it is very simple. The country was lulled into a trap by giveaway interest rates of 2pc under EMU, leading to a current account deficit of 10pc of GDP.

A manic property bubble was funded by foreigners buying covered bonds and securities. This market has dried up. Monetary policy is now being tightened into the crunch by the ECB, hence the bankruptcy last week of Martinsa-Fadesa (€5.1bn). With Franco-era labour markets (70pc of wages are inflation-linked), the adjustment will occur through closure of the job marts.

China, India, East Europe and emerging Asia have all stolen growth from the future by condoning credit excess. To varying degrees, they are now being forced to pay back their own "inter-temporal overdrafts".

If we are lucky, America will start to stabilise before Asia goes down. Should our leaders mismanage affairs, almost every part of the global system will go down together. Then we are in trouble._
^^ Will the Middle East petro dollars protect the region or will a lack of credit and heafty interest rates cause a decline in inward funding? 

Investment maybe recalled from this region by foreigners seeking to preserve liquidity in their home countries. Money used to be cheap, not anymore!


----------



## Naz UK

^^ You know the world's financially fucked when civil engineers become economic gurus. :runaway:


----------



## High Times

^^

Bloody Jahova's Witnesses


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The slow Dubai property clock is steadily ticking away. Rental yields for new builds are now too low for investors to consider. Inflation can not be kept at 20%+ for long. It is this inflation which is helping the property price increases as it increases yields to make them attractive enough for investors. Not very long now before prices start to go down, maybe 1 or 2 years. Investors will leave the market and there will be too many units around. The visa situation does not help those units sell and get filled. If Dubai plans to increase its population so dramatically it needs to allow anyone and everyone to enter and live in the country or stop building. Question is, can there be enough demand if they are too selective about who they allow to live here.


----------



## High Times

^^

Indeed, investing in anything above AED2,000 psf is risky if you ask me.


----------



## 999bbb

High Times said:


> Drinking Water is the next big commodity.
> 
> It is predicted to increase 500% in value over the next 5 years.
> 
> I have some very interesting presentations on the subject that make quite scary reading.
> 
> Most of my clients portfolios have an element of water investment funds in them now. A couple of years ago the new asset class was agriculture funds. I was laughed at by some of my clients when i suggested they should invest in this type of asset when the masses aere going into stocks and commercial property. They all love me now as Agg funds have done 10%-12% pa over the last 2 years compared to stocks (-15% 20%).
> 
> Trust me water is the next oil/gold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Would agree with you HT - It is about time farmers in UK had good deal althougn their costs are rocketing like their end products(viscious circle)
> 
> Bottled drinking water is also booming despite some bad press and the British Bottling Industry are sending ££millions into Africa to provide for clean drinking water systems in deprived areas
> 
> Middle eastern countries have difficulties because oil is easier to drill for than water it seems !! Hence the proliferation of brands such as "Aquafina" (purified ozonated tap water)"


----------



## mackie1964

What is with the doom and gloom, it is just summer, 3 more months and it will be back on track when the big guys/ decision makers are back from colder climates  Dubai still got 2 to 3 maybe 4 years upwards before the decline and I will take some bets on this one, now show me the money :banana:


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## Wannaberich

Anyone know if theres a site that lists approved projects?


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## HappyLarry

*Worrying signs in realty market*

Worrying signs in realty market

By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: July 24, 2008, 23:37

Dubai: Real estate speculators need to be rooted out of Dubai's housing market, and introducing a *50 per cent capital gains tax on properties bought and sold within a period of 12 months * could be the best way to discourage short-term speculators, Standard Chartered Bank said yesterday.

Curbs against speculators will reduce house prices and improve the stability of the market, the bank noted in a research paper.

"It is a hot topic and having a huge impact on the economy. We need to get speculators out of the market," said Marios Mara-theftis, the bank's regional head of research for Middle East, North Africa and Pakistan.

He said there are "worrying signs" of speculative activity in Dubai's real estate market, which is "destabilising, dangerous and unsustainable." He said speculation in Dubai has reached "excessive levels."

The introduction of a capital gains tax would encourage long-term investors and end-users to buy property, he said.

The bank's report said that due to the increasing population, 44,000 housing units have to be released on to the market each year in order to keep up with demand.

The report also shows there is a premium of Dh1,950 per square foot for villas and for apartments, the price increases around Dh70 per square foot the higher the floor.

There are also significant premiums for the Palm Jumeirah at Dh1,110 per square foot and Burj Dubai at Dh3,965.

Standard Chartered had forecast back in March that there would be a 15 per cent premium in 2008 in the housing market.

"Well, it wasn't 15 per cent in one year, it was 42 per cent in three months," Maratheftis said. He said it is the short-term investors, looking to make money, who are hurting the market.

50% Capital gains tax on flippers will certainly cool things a little!


----------



## IISinbadII

mackie1964 said:


> What is with the doom and gloom, it is just summer, 3 more months and it will be back on track when the big guys/ decision makers are back from colder climates  Dubai still got 2 to 3 maybe 4 years upwards before the decline and I will take some bets on this one, now show me the money :banana:


Its the *tale of two markets*.

Off plan projects at sub-prime locations may have cooled down. 

But completed property at prime locations, good views, quality finish and projects by reliable developers are still going up, both in rents and prices. 

People want to calculate how long it takes them to reach their offices which are mostly on SZR. As time goes by buyers and tenants will get more selective. They would want to be near metro stations, schools, malls and business centers.


----------



## Cyrus55

MalcomX said:


> Most launch prices are a joke these days....it's more expensive than actually handed over projects in great location. I can't believe people actually buy. I've heard that people are actually having problems flipping their property. The market is slow and the resale market in general is not shifting...
> 
> The problem is that as soon as people hear the word launch or pre-launch, they jump at it without knowing anything about the development. Then they try to flip it before the next payment is due....I just feel sorry for the poor bloke who ends up with a property that is hugely overprized and probably won't last for more than 15-20 yrs.


Dubai prices are just too high, Most of villas/flats would hardly last more than 15-20 years cos of poor quailty. Nevertheless prices in RAK is much better! 
The question is are there any buyers for all these units bought by greedy investors who purchased full floor or several villas?


----------



## Wannaberich

Cyrus55 said:


> Dubai prices are just too high, Most of villas/flats would hardly last more than 15-20 years cos of poor quailty.


I hardly think so.


----------



## agod

Cyrus55 said:


> Dubai prices are just too high, Most of villas/flats would hardly last more than 15-20 years cos of poor quailty. Nevertheless prices in RAK is much better!
> The question is are there any buyers for all these units bought by greedy investors who purchased full floor or several villas?


So in about 30 years, everything is going to come tumbling down, you have just insulted most of the very professional engineers, and construction workers and companies that are building there, also the rigid codes they have to adhere to, my brother in law, built the first WTC back in 1970's and its still standing.

Now if you saw the way they put my Florida home together I would agree with you.

Alan


----------



## beer51

The life of a building in Dubai is around 50yrs.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai and Abu Dhabi have fallen on the list of the world's most expensive cities, despite soaring inflation in the UAE, according to research by consultant Mercer.

Dubai ranks as the 52nd most expensive city in the world, while the UAE capital is at number 62.

"Dubai and Abu Dhabi have dropped significantly this year," the report said. "This is mainly due to the UAE dirham being pegged to the US dollar."

Tel Aviv is again the most expensive city in the Middle East. It ranked 14th on the global list, up three places from 2007.

"Current market conditions have led to the further weakening of the US dollar which, coupled with the strengthening of the euro and many other currencies, has caused significant changes in this year's rankings," said Yvonne Traber, a principal and research manager at Mercer. The survey of 143 cities compares the cost of 200 items, including housing, transport, food, clothing, household goods and entertainment.

Moscow is the world's priciest city for expatriate workers and is almost one-and-a-half times as expensive as New York, Shanghai, Amsterdam and Madrid.

Tokyo rose above London into second place in the world rankings while Oslo, boosted by Norway's petrodollars, climbed six places to fourth.


----------



## bizzybonita

The Bank «Standard Chartered» that the real estate market in Dubai showed signs of fever, as investors bet is working to achieve rapid gains in real estate prices to inflate under construction. 
The real estate boom started in Dubai at the regional level in 2002, when it invited foreign investors to invest in the real estate market. Since then, economic growth has great, thanks to high oil prices, to attract large numbers of investors to real estate in the Principality. The bank, in a note yesterday that «there are signs of excessive speculative activity for the short term is to raise prices, may prove to be a destabilizing factor». 

The company said «palm» built on islands that form, etc. Last month, the prices of some units rose to nearly three-fold in two years, and estimated the company «Colliers International» that real estate prices in Dubai rose by 42% in the first three months of this year alone. He pointed out that the bank «real estate under construction suffered more than any other speculation, and that price is equivalent in many cases, units completed». 

In general, is supposed to be completed real estate highest price compared to real estate not fully built yet, because it can achieve the owner of the lease income. However, to allow low-sponsors of up to 10% of the value of the property could mean that the speculative real estate and re-sold within a short period, achieving a substantial profit. He said the bank «quite common to see investors are centers in the market structure disposed of before any further payments later». He added that «in many cases, investors do not have any intention to own the property, and their presence in the market center just a short-term is to raise prices to gain quick and large». To reduce speculative short-term, the bank stressed that it is supposed to «to Dubai to consider the imposition of taxes on real estate bought and sold during the period of 12 months or requiring payment heralds more».


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Speculative short-term trading is not the only reason for high property prices.

New offerings are more expensive than the previous ones. The developers increase the prices for every new launch. If the rate of new offerings were same as two years ago, you wont see the type of price rises we have seen. Similarly developers hold units and sell them at a premium. 

Another big reason is that the cost of construction is going up. You just cant build towers at the prices you could before.


----------



## 234sale

Wannaberich said:


> Anyone know if theres a site that lists approved projects?


http://rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/home.jsp?lang=0


----------



## hershh

OK. I need some help. I am looking for a blank tenancy agreement that I can use for an apartment rental renewal in Dubai. I have scoured the RERA's website and the net. The one I have now is outdated. Anyone know where to find one or have one they can send me. Thanks


----------



## Dubai_Steve

UAE residents prefer to buy property rather than pay rent 

Dubai • An increasing number of residents in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) are opting to buy property rather than live in rented property because of soaring rents. 

"Given the steady increase in UAE rental prices over the past few years, buying is appearing increasingly attractive to those who are looking to build equity from the significant financial investment they are already making in their home," Chris Dommett, chief executive of leading independent mortgage adviser John Charcol Dubai, said in a statement here. 

"The era of pumping hard earned income into oblivion for rent is dissipating within Dubai's resident community as educational awareness of the local mortgage market increases and home lending services become more accessible," Dommett said. 

Building equity is widely considered the most important financial advantage of buying a home, said the statement. 

"The ability of locking in a fixed monthly payment for a long term period is also a major incentive as rent in Dubai in general increases markedly every year," it said. 

Recent reports showed the UAE's capital Abu Dhabi overtaking the country's commercial capital Dubai in property prices. 

According to figures released by HSBC this month, the average rent per square metre in Abu Dhabi, which was $272 in the last quarter of 2007, rocketed to $430 per square metre in the second quarter of 2008, a rise of 58 percent. 

In Dubai, average rent per square metre was $343 in the last quarter of 2007. But this rose 22 percent to $420 per square metre. 

As for buying a house, in Abu Dhabi prices rose by 61 percent from the last quarter of 2007 to the second quarter of 2008, while Dubai witnessed a rise of 37 percent in the same period. 

"The main reason prices in Abu Dhabi are outpacing Dubai is because the market is much tighter and delivery delays are more apparent," Majid Alam, an analyst at HSBC, told the Gulf News. 

"Ultimately, we believe that Abu Dhabi should be at a premium because affordability is higher," he added.


----------



## Morrismarina

A link to some interesting articles about Dubai and the UAE in today's Sunday Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/newspapers/supplements/dubai/


----------



## bizzybonita

Real estate database to cover all emirates 











The new database will be a unified service for all the entire country (DENNIS B MALLARI)

on Sunday, July 27, 2008 

The Dubai Land Department is in the preliminary stages of establishing a unified real estate database covering whole of the UAE.

In a recent meeting at the department – the first of co-ordinators for corporate partnerships between the UAE’s land and municipality departments – discussions centred around setting up such as database, which would have all available data on real estate, land and properties, as well as the laws and legislations currently in force in all emirates. It would be a unified service for the entire country and would serve all nationals, investors and real estate developers.

The meeting discussed methods of collecting data, conducting research and compiling statistical reports on land affairs in each emirate, and ultimately coming up with a unified and integrated database on all land and property in the country.

Other topics discussed were corporate relations based on transparency with partners, working towards strategic national goals, and unifying legislations and systems in various government departments. 

Jumaa bin Humaidan, Assistant Director-General of the Dubai Land Department, said the meeting’s aim was to bring about a sense of co-operation and partnership between all the land and municipality departments in the UAE. It also sought to foster the exchange of data related to land and property among various departments in the country in addition to sharing information on laws and legislations. The main aim behind the initiative was integration rather than competition, said bin Humaidan.

Marwan bin Ghalita, Chairman of the Real Estate Regulatory Authority, said one of the aims of corporate partnership was to centralise data and to benefit from the research and expertise acquired by each land department by developing and unifying them through an electronic link and establishing a database to serve all parties.

Abdul Bari bin Souqat, Director of Corporate Partnership at the department, spoke of the several stages of the initiative. The first, he said, was the electronic link between all land and municipality departments, as well as other establishments related to land and property. 

The next step was co-ordination and consultation on laws and legislations in force in each emirate to come up with unified laws that would guarantee the continuation of the real estate leap in the country and serve the interests of all parties. 

Bin Souqat said meetings of the co-ordinators will take place periodically at all land and municipality departments. The dates for further meetings will be announced in October, he added.


----------



## Opus 2009

Does anyone know which banks are financing the Lagoons buildings by Sama Dubai (besides: Amlak & Tamweel). :cheers:


----------



## PAULDELVES

Imre said:


> *Burj Dubai prices climb*
> 
> 
> The cost of buying into the Burj Dubai has increased by almost 25% in the past couple of months, with prices likely to go higher, Coldwell Banker CEO Hisham El Far told Emirates Today. Residential space in the world's tallest tower is selling for Dhs4,000-6,000 per sqft, while commercial space is fetching Dhs5,000-8,000 per sqft. Another source said prices were increasing as more floors were added. The tower will have a mix of residences, corporate suites and the Armani Hotel & Residences.
> (ameinfo)


One year ago !-Oh for a crystal ball ?


----------



## FWIW

*Very good information*

Not usually impressed with some Dubai developers, but these guys seem to be on the ball!

Have a look at their very detailed doc here: http://www.openshoreproperty.com/buyersguide.php

:applause:


----------



## glover

*proposed changes: current 3 year property visa to be replaced by a 5 year multiple-entry visa*

Developers may forfeit residency sales incentive

Robert Ditcham
the national

Last Updated: July 27. 2008 11:58PM UAE / July 27. 2008 7:58PM GMT

DUBAI // Property developers would no longer be able to lure foreign buyers by guaranteeing the right to long-term residency, under proposed reforms of the way visas are issued.

Under the current system, prospective homeowners seeking residency rely on the property developer to act as the sponsor for a visa. The visa, which allows the holder to live in the emirate, but not to work, is a significant incentive for many buyers.

Now, a committee formed to review the way visas are granted has proposed that the title deed for a freehold or long-term leasehold property would itself qualify a buyer to apply for a residency visa, cutting the developer out of the process.

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080727/NATIONAL/926978353/1041&profile=1041entry


----------



## Solzaar

Mavekris said:


> Every one is talking about remraam now a days
> 
> its picked up very well
> 
> cannot belive that they lauched at 750 Aed in october and now Ajman one Giga Smart city selling at 670 Aed
> 
> The best time to in vest in dubai is over i guess
> 
> emmar anything 4000 + look at warsan town houses crazy prices
> 
> Nakheel have gone mad with the pricing of their projects
> 
> Time to sleep for the flippers i guess its not easy to flip at this levels
> 
> what you guys say ?


A bubble can inflate a long way before it eventually bursts, l think it will continue till 2011 then let's pray for a soft landing, and lots of visitors!!!


----------



## agod

glover said:


> Developers may forfeit residency sales incentive
> 
> Robert Ditcham
> the national
> 
> Last Updated: July 27. 2008 11:58PM UAE / July 27. 2008 7:58PM GMT
> 
> DUBAI // Property developers would no longer be able to lure foreign buyers by guaranteeing the right to long-term residency, under proposed reforms of the way visas are issued.
> 
> Under the current system, prospective homeowners seeking residency rely on the property developer to act as the sponsor for a visa. The visa, which allows the holder to live in the emirate, but not to work, is a significant incentive for many buyers.
> 
> Now, a committee formed to review the way visas are granted has proposed that the title deed for a freehold or long-term leasehold property would itself qualify a buyer to apply for a residency visa, cutting the developer out of the process.
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080727/NATIONAL/926978353/1041&profile=1041entry



This seems a more sensible move, on the Governments part, it should be the person who owns the property that has to apply for visas, which is a pretty standard thing anywhere elsein the world, that way the authorities can keep tabs on who is coming into the country, and try and keep undesireables at bay.

After all those rumours about this, it seems it is not as bad as everyone thought, just one thing that might be a hiccup, if you have a mortgage the bank owns the property and usally holds the deeds as well, so they need to come up with something, so that doesnt stop people residing there, because the bank is sitting on them, and the banks release documents to the immigration dept, so they can have sight of the deeds, something like that, or they could say sorry, you don't actually own it so goodbye, I am sure that's not there intention.

ALan


----------



## Morrismarina

Hi Alan
You do actually own the property, it is just subject to a mortgage registered at the land registry. But you name will show as the owner whether there's a mortgage outstanding or not. By granting a mortgage to a lender you do not lose your ownership to your property. The bank don't own your property, they just have a mortgage on it....... so can't see this being an issue at all.

The only possible problem could be where (as in the case of Select Property) you buy with the aid of the developers long term payment plan. This is a totally different ball game. In this case then you do not own the property until you've paid the purchase price in full, which could be at the end of the 15 years. Your name would not therefore be on the ownership section at the Land Registry, it would be the developer who's registered there. Not sure how this will work ??


----------



## agod

Hi Morris

Only this is Dubai, are you talking about the UK, or Dubai? as it does not have the kind of set up we have here, Land registry, and historical systems in place for proof of ownership etc.

I see there might be a problem, not sure it will happen, but as the deeds will be held by the bank, and they might not allow access to them for that purpose, its like the bank account saga, no bank account unless you are a resident, and no residency, because you dont own anything, its all a bit up in the air. 

Alan


----------



## worried1

*How do these rules apply*



agod said:


> Hi Morris
> 
> Only this is Dubai, are you talking about the UK, or Dubai? as it does not have the kind of set up we have here, Land registry, and historical systems in place for proof of ownership etc.
> 
> I see there might be a problem, not sure it will happen, but as the deeds will be held by the bank, and they might not allow access to them for that purpose, its like the bank account saga, no bank account unless you are a resident, and no residency, because you dont own anything, its all a bit up in the air.
> 
> Alan


What happens if you own a room in a condo hotel or service appartment:nuts:


----------



## iced

*Interesting times*



Solzaar said:


> A bubble can inflate a long way before it eventually bursts, l think it will continue till 2011 then let's pray for a soft landing, and lots of visitors!!!


I also think that the market top is close and could occur within the next couple of years. The parabolic increase in prices is unsustainable and a correction will occur which will be steep if you have bought recently but not so bad if have invest 2006 and before.

Similar situation occuring in the west.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The volume of property sales in Dubai is poised to rise as more global investors, shifting their focus away from markets hit by credit crunch, seek to enter the Gulf markets, a leading global property investment expert said.

Dubai, which registered the greatest improvement in real estate transparency globally over the past two years, is projected to record a 55.2 per cent surge in property deals to hit Dh717 billion in 2008 from Dh462 billion in 2007, said Blair Hagkull, managing-director of Jones Lang LaSalle (JLL), MENA, a leading real estate investment and advisory firm.

"With credit crisis hitting real estate markets in the US and Europe, many investors are eyeing Gulf markets, particularly Dubai," said Hagkull. He was speaking to reporters at the launch of a new study — the Real Estate Transparency Report 2008 for the MENA region — which ranked Dubai as the region's top most transparent market.

Hagkull said Dubai's position as the most transparent of the MENA markets placed it ahead of other emerging economies such as those of the BRIC Markets (Brazil, Russia, India and China). 

"Better than China, India and most of Russia, Dubai's transparency index score exceeds the other BRIC markets," he told reporters. JLL is an investment adviser with a track-record of working on projects worth $200 billion in MENA.

Transparent markets as those that are open and easier to do business with the components of transparency encompassing transaction processes, the regulatory and legal environment, market fundamentals and performance measurements.


----------



## dlnash

iced said:


> I also think that the market top is close and could occur within the next couple of years. The parabolic increase in prices is unsustainable and a correction will occur which will be steep if you have bought recently but not so bad if have invest 2006 and before.
> 
> Similar situation occuring in the west.



Are you specifically referring to commercial property or residential?. Normally, commercial units are more expensive compared to residential ones. However, in Downtown Burj Dubai, the opposite is true. Commercial units are around DHS 5,300 per sq ft and residential around DHS 6,000+ (the new launches)..are these prices sustainable when you are specifically thinking about Downtown Burj Dubai?


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Downtown Burj Dubai is unique. Its gona be the heart of Dubai. Something like the Rockefeller Center or the Champs-Élysées. Burj Dubai completion will be a BIG event. Locations like this usually retain their value even in a correction.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Actually it can be such prime areas that get the biggest price correction.


"London and southern England are bearing the brunt of falls in house prices, which have dropped for the 10th month in a row, according to a survey published today.

Average prices in England and Wales declined by 4.4 per cent over the past year, with a fall of 1.2 per cent in July which put prices back to levels last seen in October 2006, according to Hometrack, a housing data analysis company.

Savills, the property agent, predicted that prime London properties would fall by 15 per cent this year and by 25 per cent by the end of 2009, with *the worst hit areas expected to be parts of West London such as Kensington, Notting Hill and Holland Park*."



On another note, the prices are projected to zoom up in the UK in 2011, so investors will leave the Dubai market with its over supply and invest in the UK. I think it is reasonable to assume then that 2011 will be a bad year for prices in Dubai.


Research by Oxford Economics, independent economists, for the National Housing Federation, which represents housing associations, predicts that prices will fall in 2009, start to recover in 2010 and then rapidly increase from 2011.

David Orr, chief executive said: "Demand for housing is going up, while the supply of new homes is going down.

"This means that as soon as the economic outlook improves house prices will resume their previous upward trajectory."


----------



## High Times

*ENCOURAGING NEWS*

More and more Western investment companies are now looking to exploit the success of the Middle East.

With depressed US and UK markets, fund managers are looking for new homes for clients funds.

There are currently £billions of institutional funds sat in cash accounts waiting for the right time/place to invest.

Many new funds are emerging ready to facilitate cash flow into the Middle East. It is my view that prices will continue to rise in Dubai for at least another 2 years, about the same time as it will take for the UK credit markets to ease.

Some info on a fund that is looking to exploit the Middle East oportunity.

http://www.investecassetmanagement.com/ame/index.php

Before i get shouted at, or laughed at. This is *not in any way an investment recommendation*. It is just to show that the Middle East is now looking attractive to a much wider audience than just property speculators.


----------



## dlnash

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Downtown Burj Dubai is unique. Its gona be the heart of Dubai. Something like the Rockefeller Center or the Champs-Élysées. Burj Dubai completion will be a BIG event. Locations like this usually retain their value even in a correction.


If we compare Downtown Burj Dubai ,then how much do you think is residential or commercial space priced at Champs elysee or the Rockefeller center?


----------



## IISinbadII

dlnash said:


> If we compare Downtown Burj Dubai ,then how much do you think is residential or commercial space priced at Champs elysee or the Rockefeller center?


I don't know the prices at those places, but I can tell you that if you look hard, you can still buy completed residential units in the Burj Dubai complex b/w 3000 and 4000 AED psqft. 

The Mall is opening next month and the Burj is completing next year......time is running out. If the new off plan launches are at 6000 AED, buying completed property at these prices sounds like a bargain.


----------



## iced

*Correction*



dlnash said:


> Are you specifically referring to commercial property or residential?. Normally, commercial units are more expensive compared to residential ones. However, in Downtown Burj Dubai, the opposite is true. Commercial units are around DHS 5,300 per sq ft and residential around DHS 6,000+ (the new launches)..are these prices sustainable when you are specifically thinking about Downtown Burj Dubai?


I think that the falls will hit types of property. I just saw that one project downtown has a price of around 13k/sq ft. Even though it is commercial this is incredble leap. 

i think that as the west goes into or close to recession, overseas investor will not purchase here or anywhere and wait until they feel better off. India is also struggling with costs and inflation. Prices should deflate, it is only a matter of time.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The recession in the west will affect investment in Dubai to some degree but also investors with money will be looking to invest in the upward cycle of Dubai for the next 2 or 3 years until the west starts to come out of recession and then we may have a problem in Dubai with over supply and too high prices. It depends on the demand that Dubai creates at that time. It could be that the finished products stimulates demand enough for the fall not occur or not by very much. But a stagnation of prices is likely for a few years until more wealth, demand and less supply occurs again. IMO


----------



## iced

IISinbadII said:


> I don't know the prices at those places, but I can tell you that if you look hard, you can still buy completed residential units in the Burj Dubai complex b/w 3000 and 4000 AED psqft.
> 
> The Mall is opening next month and the Burj is completing next year......time is running out. If the new off plan launches are at 6000 AED, buying completed property at these prices sounds like a bargain.


the pricing of new off plan properties at these levels is a concern since there is little real opportunity for price appreciation in real terms. Do agree with other people that it will take a couple of years for prices to generally fall. However as flippers fail to find somone to purchase resales at this lofty prices then downtown prices should stabilise or even fall. It is also difficult to see real appreciation due to inflation.

It is also going to take some time for downtown to be fully completed. It will look great when the whole area is ready.


----------



## dlnash

You can't compare the Dubai real estate market with any other market .such as the UK or the US. The thing unique about Dubai is that the Government has a considerable holding in the all the major real estate companies such as Emaar , Nakheel, Dubai Properties e.t.c.. Dubai has only developed due to the vision of the ruler of Dubai..They have created it such that people have been pulled towards it.. In my opinion, the government is strictly moinitoring whatever is happening in the market,, they will never let it crash,,because if it crashes, the whole charm of Dubai will be finished,. As long as the government has control, they will somehow make this boom continue for many years to come, either by reducing supply, cancelling projects, delaying deliveries,.e.t.c you never know what they will do, because they have the control in their hand.


----------



## docc

Thank you for your input Sindbad 

Buying smaller units gives me the hassle of managing 5 different properties and tenants whereas one single unit would be much easier.

Look at it this way. If i buy 5 small individual office spaces, companies might set up and leave if business isn't good which means i have to get back to searching for clients again. Also, they don't lose much since the investment is small.

However, if i have one large unit leased to a company of 40-50 employees, i'm 90% guaranteed that they are here to stay and probably won't move for 5-6 years unless ofcourse something goes really bad for them. Moving a company of 50 employees isn't an easy thing to do 

Also, from what i have been told my a Tecom representative, not anyone can come and setup office there. Tecom has a fairly stringent policy on who it gives a license to operate which ofcourse is a good thing. Taking all these points into consideration, i'm a tad more inclined towards buying a big office space in Tecom as opposed to multiple office spaces in JLT.

If you guys any contradicting personal experience or any words of wisdom, enlighten me!

Cheers.


----------



## IISinbadII

docc said:


> Also, from what i have been told my a Tecom representative, not anyone can come and setup office there. Tecom has a fairly stringent policy on who it gives a license to operate which ofcourse is a good thing..


^^ Don't you think its actually a bad thing. It would reduce the number of companies who would qualify to open office in Tecom......and this would mean less tenants for your property.


----------



## docc

Actually, from the 400 companies that have been on the waiting list, a lot of them have already been approved but are having a hard time find office space. I guess they are just trying to maintain a standard of sorts. Sounds counter-intuitive, but then again a lot of things don't make sense in Dubai .


----------



## andy-j

ferrari430 said:


> DubaiDream - I have used CHEFDUDE from this forum to do snagging of my apartments. (and so have many other forumers used his service as well) He had done a great job and is a reliable chap. He has also rented out some of my apartments faster than any of agents I had listed with.
> 
> Anyway, I can highly recommend him. Send me a PM if you want his details



I can second that CHEFDUDE is the best guy out for there for the job.


----------



## agod

docc

IMO it sounds like a good deal, as long as the location is good, and it looks like a nice building, which it does, and its complete, there are tenants to fill it, so rents coming in straight away. I would buy something like that myself, in fact I think the only game in town (any town) is a good commercial property, rent it on a long term lease 5-7 years, and sit on your arse and collect the rents lovely jubbly, as Del Boy would say.....and you just supply the shell, as they fit it out as well to there requirements.

ALan (take notice of my signature)


----------



## ferrari430

Where did I read recently that Dubai has as much office space in the pipeline as is being built in Shanghai and almost as much as Moscow both of which have population in the region 8-10 million (and Dubai has barely 2 million?). If all this supply of office space comes in the next 2 years it will be quite difficult to rent them out. Anything coming in the next 6 months - 1 year is just about safe - I think


----------



## AITU

^^ You are correct in what you say, however, currently supply is severely limited. You have a number of respectable companies who have been in operation for 10 years + paying AED250-350 sq/ft for old and shoddy buildings in Karama / Bur Dubai / Deira. With no parking and horrific traffic.

I would think that a number of these companies would happily relocate and pay a fraction more in rent for a brand new spanking office in a prime area (near SZR and on the metro line, BB or JLT) - particularly if they have clients or customers visit their offices. It could be quite important for their business survival or growth. 

DOCC - my first advice would be not to listen to agents. Having said that I think you would be ok with the Cayan Business Centre option but if it were me with the money you were paying, I would prefer something near a metro station in JLT or to guarantee a rent, stretch a bit further and go for phase 1 in BB near the metro station. 

I used to live in Emirates Hills and that back road used to be a nightmare through the TECOM area. Having said that I believe there are plans to improve the roads in the area although parking will always be a nightmare. With an office employing 30 people, if 20 can catch the metro to work in the future and easily walk the rest of the way to the office, it can only be advantageous?

Hope this helps and good luck.


----------



## docc

Hi Guys,

Thank you for the advice.

There are 2 reasons why i am considering Cayan Business Centre.

1) Its much cheaper than JLT; almost AED 300-400/Sft lesser! Owner wants to make a quick sale and hence he's offering this price.

2) Tecom metro station is at walking distance from it i.e about 300-400 metres. So, 8-9 months of the year when the climate is good, i'm sure walking to the office from the metro won't seem that bad at all.

Lastly, i'm unable to find a large office space in JLT as the only time one would have been able to purchase large units was during launch or probably even at the off-plan stage. I just want a stable source of rental income for my parents so that they can use it as a retirement fund and don't want them to go through the hassle of managing multiple offices spaces (1000 Sft each).

As for BB, well prices there are nothing short of 2500/Sft for prime areas which means that i would be paying 40% more than what i am paying right now for roughly 5000 Sft of office space. I had a look at Aspect tower (Executive Tower D) and they are charing almost 3750/Sft with completion due in Q2-Q3 '09. I want something thats ready right now so that i can have immediate returns and hence the only options are JLT or Tecom!

Thats my perspective on this issue. I'm still quite divided over JLT and CBC (Tecom), but am definitely more inclined to the latter for reasons mentioned above. I've also considered fitting out the place myself which should cost an additional AED 150/Sft but that would also mean that it gets leased out faster and presumably at higher rent.

Thanks again for all your views. Keep them coming in!

Cheers.


----------



## AITU

Just check that it is actually ready for handover, but I think you already know what you want to do - go for it! :cheers:


----------



## docc

Well, handover is due at the end of September.

Oh, and it may seem like my mind is made up, but trust me when i say that i REALLY am confused! I've been enquiring about units in Goldcrest Executive as thats the only tower that i REALLY like in JLT, however most of the office spaces on the resale market from this tower are approximately 800-900 Sft!

The other option is One Lake Plaza which is being handed over at the end of this month. I have arranged for a viewing next week since DEWA is connecting this week. Also, Fortune tower which is close to the metro is another good option which is why i'm going to take a look at it tomorrow.

I just don't know if i should get a single large space of 5000 Sft or 5 x 1000 Sft units!

Cheers.


----------



## amplesou

*any news !*

I have just browsed thru the new D.Sc. news letter released this week !
i can,t believe there has been no contractor news regarding canal residence west ? after all this time !
in another article the liverpool born manager indicates that they are struggling to find the right type of contractors for a set price !
does sound to me like no one wants to build canal residence for the price D.Sc. are offering !
May be thats the real reason for all this bull D.Sc. ?


----------



## agod

Docc, I think the same as you, I would get a single unit, one tenant, with a good turnover busines, long term, with rent reviews, as opposed to 5 tenants, some units might not be let, so you could have void periods, some would negotiate different rents, some would have different rental terms, some would have different length of lease, proper nightmare, looking after 5 when you could get the same from one. just make sure that the income from the one rental, is equal to or greater than that of owning 5 units, otherwise it could be worth more to you to have the 5.

I was looking at something similar in BB last year, to do the same as you, get a retirement income, I went for DSO instead, which I think is getting overlooked, and is still cheap, plus not built though, and I dont have the opportunites you have when you are living there and in the mix.

Could you tell me anyone, I was under the impression, that you do not fit out the offices, you just supply the shell for the company to do its own thing, am I wrong on that!

ALan


----------



## worried1

*if you want income*



docc said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Thank you for the advice.
> 
> There are 2 reasons why i am considering Cayan Business Centre.
> 
> 1) Its much cheaper than JLT; almost AED 300-400/Sft lesser! Owner wants to make a quick sale and hence he's offering this price.
> 
> 2) Tecom metro station is at walking distance from it i.e about 300-400 metres. So, 8-9 months of the year when the climate is good, i'm sure walking to the office from the metro won't seem that bad at all.
> 
> Lastly, i'm unable to find a large office space in JLT as the only time one would have been able to purchase large units was during launch or probably even at the off-plan stage. I just want a stable source of rental income for my parents so that they can use it as a retirement fund and don't want them to go through the hassle of managing multiple offices spaces (1000 Sft each).
> 
> As for BB, well prices there are nothing short of 2500/Sft for prime areas which means that i would be paying 40% more than what i am paying right now for roughly 5000 Sft of office space. I had a look at Aspect tower (Executive Tower D) and they are charing almost 3750/Sft with completion due in Q2-Q3 '09. I want something thats ready right now so that i can have immediate returns and hence the only options are JLT or Tecom!
> 
> Thats my perspective on this issue. I'm still quite divided over JLT and CBC (Tecom), but am definitely more inclined to the latter for reasons mentioned above. I've also considered fitting out the place myself which should cost an additional AED 150/Sft but that would also mean that it gets leased out faster and presumably at higher rent.
> 
> Thanks again for all your views. Keep them coming in!
> 
> Cheers.


if you want income, buy a condo hotel or service appartment. some of them come with guaranteed rental income and you dont have to be a landlord:cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

*The property prices in Dubai have surged 79 percent since 2007, and, may fall 10 percent by 2010*, with the supply surpassing demand in the Gulf emirate, reveals a research not by Morgan Stanley.

This correction in Dubai's realty sector could have an undulation effect on its neighbouring countries in the region, with the shares of 12 regional property firms, dropping an average of 35 percent, states the research note.

At the worst, Dubai property prices may follow the pattern experience during the late 1990s in Singapore, wherein property prices dropped 80 percent in 18 months, although it is a "low probability event", said Morgan Stanley report.

Dubai property market will see an oversupply in 2009, which will lead to a series of price declines. Although these price declines are limited to Dubai, given the level of undersupply in neighboring markets, one cannot ignore the 'contagion' effect on Middle East, North Africa property share prices, with the investor confidence levels dropping down, Morgan Stanley said.

Being home to man-made palm-shaped islands and indoor ski slope in the Desert, Dubai hit the property boom in the region in 2002, when the foreigners were invited to invest in real estate. Thereafter, the regional economic growth in Dubai was supported manifold by the rise in oil prices, which drew streams of investors into the business and trade hub.

The Standard Chartered Bank last month mentioned that Dubai was boiling with speculators inflating prices of real estate that are still under construction. It was recommended that the emirate introduce capital gain tax to deter short-term investors.

Now, as per the Morgan Stanley price index, the property prices in Dubai surged 25 percent during first half of 2008, but is higher by 79 percent as against that in the beginning of 2007. The price increases have been driven by a variety of factors including speculation, genuine demand, and escalating construction costs.

For 2009, the prices will begin feeling the pressure, once oversupply becomes evident. Hence a 10 percent decline in property prices can be expected between 2008 and 2010, reveals the Morgan Stanley note.

Few developers are in fact, trying to keep away short-term investors. The developer of the Palm Island, Nakheel, has asked buyers at Trump International Hotel, to wait for a year, before selling off their units to the secondary market.

Although, Dubai is the leader for the Gulf Property market, the minor relaxation in prices in the emirate, may however, not bear an impact on Abu Dhabi and Qatar, as the property sectors here is likely to remain undersupplied until 2012, the report concluded.


----------



## AITU

^^Another garbage article written by a trainee journalist. There is no way there will be oversupply in 2009 - nothing is being finished on time!


----------



## AITU

Could you tell me anyone, I was under the impression, that you do not fit out the offices, you just supply the shell for the company to do its own thing, am I wrong on that!

ALan[/QUOTE]

^^You can do either or, however I would think its better to provide just the shell so that the tennant can design to their requirements. This is also less hassle and less initial outlay for the landlord.


----------



## docc

agod said:


> Docc, I think the same as you, I would get a single unit, one tenant, with a good turnover busines, long term, with rent reviews, as opposed to 5 tenants, some units might not be let, so you could have void periods, some would negotiate different rents, some would have different rental terms, some would have different length of lease, proper nightmare, looking after 5 when you could get the same from one. just make sure that the income from the one rental, is equal to or greater than that of owning 5 units, otherwise it could be worth more to you to have the 5.
> 
> I was looking at something similar in BB last year, to do the same as you, get a retirement income, I went for DSO instead, which I think is getting overlooked, and is still cheap, plus not built though, and I dont have the opportunites you have when you are living there and in the mix.
> 
> Could you tell me anyone, I was under the impression, that you do not fit out the offices, you just supply the shell for the company to do its own thing, am I wrong on that!
> 
> ALan


Alan,

You don't have to fit it out. However, if you do, you do get a higher rental income. For instance, i was quoted AED 250/Sft if i provided only the shell and AED 300/Sft if i did the fit out myself. Fit out costs an additional 150/Sft for good quality fixtures. I believe the extra expense is worth the long term return so i'm seriously considering it.

DSO is a great place to invest. I researched a bit on it as well and even visited the area once. The landscaping is the best compared to anything else in Dubai. Apparently, there was an order by the Government that there should not be any sand seen in the development which is why the completed towers have either green or pebbles around them! Le Solarium is currently charging around AED 350/Sft which is a fantastic price and ready for handover.

DSO has a great potential especially once the Semiconductor Industry makes a move there. Good luck with your investment!

Cheers.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

AITU said:


> ^^Another garbage article written by a trainee journalist. There is no way there will be oversupply in 2009 - nothing is being finished on time!



The trainee is "Morgan Stanley"  But I agree - very limited supply in 2009 combined with an increased demand in Dubai. It seems very very unlikely prices will not increase in 2009.


----------



## IISinbadII

docc said:


> You don't have to fit it out. However, if you do, you do get a higher rental income. For instance, i was quoted AED 250/Sft if i provided only the shell and AED 300/Sft if i did the fit out myself. Fit out costs an additional 150/Sft for good quality fixtures. I believe the extra expense is worth the long term return so i'm seriously considering it.


docc, once again I would differ 

I understand it would costs apx. 50k for each 1000 sqft to fit out. I would let the tenant do all the investment so that he thinks twice before leaving.

BTW, commercial contracts are usually for 2 years, with rent increments after that.


----------



## docc

Thanks for the input Sindbad. I'm in talks with a couple of people regarding the leasing process and all the legalities involved. Will see how it works out.

Cheers.


----------



## dlnash

guys what are your opinions regarding investing in an office in Downtown burj dubai...what rental yields can I expect there?


----------



## Mavekris

^^There you go perfect point.

They sold @700 2yrs back the rate at which is not possible to build now.

Even if the contractor has aluminium reserves which he bought last year why will he use it less than markets price ?

DSC will have to sell Gateway towers and other canal residence (Spanish & Andulisia) at higher prices which they sold @1700+ and the investor response even at that price is very good point showing the confidence in DSC.

But nothin to worry they cannot back out from this and they will give a good product in the end not for the sake of buyer but for the good DSC.


----------



## dxbchild

*Buy-to-Let*

Hi, I am looking to buy-to-let in Dubai and i was wondering if you could recomment a suitable place. My budget is for a 1br for around 800k. I realize that JV and DG would be a good option but i'm concerned that with the predicted oversupply and the 30psf maintenance charges by returns would be low. All i'm looking for is rental to cover my mortgage payments.

Any advise on this would be really appreciated.


----------



## Naz UK

1 bed for 800,000AED?

Ajman. Or Ras Al Khaimah. Or Bradford, UK.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Naz UK said:


> 1 bed for 800,000AED?
> 
> Ajman. Or Ras Al Khaimah. Or Bradford, UK.


You might find a 400 sqf studio in Dubai


----------



## docc

dlnash said:


> guys what are your opinions regarding investing in an office in Downtown burj dubai...what rental yields can I expect there?


dlnash,

DBD is an excellent place for investment, atleast for those who can afford it. No more is it a place where one could purchase a 1BR place for AED 1M! Office prices are crazy expensive there, atleast considering your options.

Currently, the only freehold office space is:

1) BD tower - AED 10,000+ per Sft
2) Boulevard plaza - AED 5500+ per Sft
3) Burj place - AED 7500+ per Sft

And ofcourse, as you mentioned earlier about the offices at the base of the BD Tower which were selling at AED 13,200 per Sft!!!

SZR demans about AED 500 - 600 per Sft depending on size, floor, view, location etc. DBD should definitely charge more than SZR considering all the amenities it provides so asking for AED 750 per Sft doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.

Comments?


----------



## dxbchild

Ok, I live here so I know you can get a 1br for 700k. But i'm trying to gauge market trends. I can't afford to take out a loan and a mortage but not have my rental cover my mortgage costs per month.

I was hoping you guys will be able to give me some suggestions. I can find property here for my price range. I work for a real estate company


----------



## dlnash

docc said:


> dlnash,
> 
> DBD is an excellent place for investment, atleast for those who can afford it. No more is it a place where one could purchase a 1BR place for AED 1M! Office prices are crazy expensive there, atleast considering your options.
> 
> Currently, the only freehold office space is:
> 
> 1) BD tower - AED 10,000+ per Sft
> 2) Boulevard plaza - AED 5500+ per Sft
> 3) Burj place - AED 7500+ per Sft
> 
> And ofcourse, as you mentioned earlier about the offices at the base of the BD Tower which were selling at AED 13,200 per Sft!!!
> 
> SZR demans about AED 500 - 600 per Sft depending on size, floor, view, location etc. DBD should definitely charge more than SZR considering all the amenities it provides so asking for AED 750 per Sft doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.
> 
> Comments?


Many thanks for your opinion docc,..Do you know any companies who are actually paying AED 500-600 per sq ft rental on SZR? I think it was more like between AED 300-400..and also is AED750 a realistic figure?..
considering I go for a 4,000 sq ft office in DBD, that'll be for around AED 22 million and if I assume AED 750 as rental..the yield works out to be 14%.
which is quite good infact...but the main thing are their companies willing to pay AED 750 psf??


----------



## Morten_Denmark

dxbchild said:


> Ok, I live here so I know you can get a 1br for 700k. But i'm trying to gauge market trends. I can't afford to take out a loan and a mortage but not have my rental cover my mortgage costs per month.
> 
> I was hoping you guys will be able to give me some suggestions. I can find property here for my price range. I work for a real estate company


Sorry - it was perhaps a bit unhelpful. 

I am not so familiar with International City prices - but you might find something here - but I would not think you will get a very big 1bed. Anyway, look at Better Homes webpage and see what the rentals are there. Rentals are quite representative here for the market. Also take a look here www.exclusiveuae.com


----------



## dxbchild

*dlnash*, you should know that dxb is looking to restrict speculation by adding a clause which will prevent you selling your property for 12-24 months.

Nakheel has already done it for thr Trump properties. If you're looking to flip, you'll need to keep in mind that the law will trap you in your investment for a year.

Having said that Downtown is the best bet in dxb if you can afford it. I've been to the offices that are now open. Very nice. Very upscale and very expensive, although the cobblestone roads were all wonky.


----------



## dlnash

I think if I can get a rental yield of 15% (6 years to recover, in addition the value of the property will atleast go up in 6 years)...I'll definately be looking at holding it rather than flipping it..
by restricting sales within 12 months, will bring a lot of stability to the market which will in turn lead to a control on excess supply,, further increasing the prospects for long term capital growth and it will infact make it a safer market for long term investors..


----------



## dxbchild

Thanks Morten. Unfortunately, IC as a buy-to-let is not so hot now. Most everyone there are trying to get out coz of the smell. They are trying to move to DG :nuts. Any other suggestions?

Btw, if any of you are interested in a 1BR for 700-800k let me know. I can give you names. But it's not ripe for speculation, just long-term investment.


----------



## dxbchild

_I think if I can get a rental yield of 15% (6 years to recover, in addition the value of the property will atleast go up in 6 years)...I'll definately be looking at holding it rather than flipping it.._
Long-term investment here is great. Even if the bubble bursts, this place is almost a guranteed safe zone, in my opinion. Everyone is moving here, which im not too thrilled about


----------



## High Times

dxbchild said:


> Even if the bubble bursts, this place is *almost a guranteed safe zone,* in my opinion. Everyone is moving here,



Only a real estate agent would say that :lol::lol:


----------



## dxbchild

:lol:

I'm in marketing, not sales High Times. Just lived here all my life.

The location is great and Dubai Mall is opening next to Downtown and most companies that have been here a long time are buying there to save costs. That's what'll set it apart. Course traffic is going to be disgustingly bad.


----------



## iced

*banks*

Articles in the newspaper talk about liquidity dryin up. This could result in flat prices or even worse.


----------



## iced

dxbchild said:


> :lol:
> 
> I'm in marketing, not sales High Times. Just lived here all my life.
> 
> The location is great and Dubai Mall is opening next to Downtown and most companies that have been here a long time are buying there to save costs. That's what'll set it apart. Course traffic is going to be disgustingly bad.


This area will fall as well if the prices come down and infact yields are starting to look really stretched


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai price news prompts a rash of comment 
Thursday, 07 August 2008 
http://www.propertywire.com/news/pr...bai-price-news-rash-comment-200808071405.html

The news from global investment bank Morgan Stanley that property prices in Dubai are predicted to fall by 10% by 2010 is met with a degree of scepticism in the property forums this week. 

Responses vary from those who agree with the report to those who dismiss it as mere speculation. But investing in property is sheer speculation, as others point out.

But you do wonder if people are actually paying attention to this kind of information. The report clearly predicts that prices will start falling in 2009 and go down by 10% the following year. So one response on the totallyproperty.com forum that 'its just summer when the market is always slow', doesn't really have much relevance.

What the thread does indicate, however, is that there is much discussion throughout the whole property industry and among investors in particular about what is going to happen in Dubai in coming years.

The analysis from several different sources indicates a downturn coming in a few years time due to factors like oversupply and booming prices. It would appear that it is those who want to make quick profits that are dismissive of the analysis.

As one poster Stephendxb, says; 'A "correction" will come and those who have speculated without due diligence will be the first to suffer.'


----------



## amplesou

*hey guys*

i just found some guys who might be able to help with this construction issue

http://www.dubaisportscity.ae/about-dubai-sports-city/board-members.html

they seem to know a thing about construction ,
do you think they could help our delima?:lol:


----------



## rags

Steve, 

Thanks for all your very interesting and useful posts. Much appreciated.

My own opinion is this. Dubai market may indeed 'correct' (a lousy word) sometime but, in the main, that is not my point. I just wanted to say that I have stopped putting any premium on 'expert opinions' such as those of MS since I feel many of these banks have no credibility left whatsoever. MS, Citi, UBS, etc have gone wrong so much and so often that they are indeed presumptuous to continue to be offering opinions. The s..t hit the ceiling in their own banks and these worthies could not predict it much less prevent it. Their capabilities to assess risks are so abysmal that if I were them, I would hide my face and run. In fact, far from being able to 'assess', they do not even 'understand or see' risk elements enough in that, I feel, many of them look at just the obvious (such as the first counterparty risk or demand and supply), look at the rearview mirror for the immediate past and proffer opinions. No wonder then that they keep issuing these opinions every next week and further contradict themselves and one another.

The fact is that there are far too many factors influencing the market, and worse, they all move at breakneck speeds in different directions. Compounding this is the event risk which none can anyway predict.

I am not saying anything new necessarily but I am of the firm view these days that most 'expert analysts' don't know their rear from their mouth.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I agree, I would say the average of the opinions on this forum is a far better indicator. The combined knowledge of Dubai, relatistic completion dates, demand and supply etc. here is far greater than any research done by an individual at Morgan Stanley.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Dont worry Amplesou i spoke to Al Zarooni today and told him you are worried about your apartment and he said he will make sure that your apartment will be finished on time.

And when i started talking peter pan's apartment he got angry and said he doesnt like the name.

Sorry peter pan :nuts:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Dubai_Steve said:


> I agree, I would say the average of the opinions on this forum is a far better indicator. The combined knowledge of Dubai, relatistic completion dates, demand and supply etc. here is far greater than any research done by an individual at Morgan Stanley.


In Ameinfo there is a variant of the article. The exccesive supply are to be found in the Marina and JLT - to my knowledge (which off course is modest small) I dont see many units being completed in 2009 from this marina area. I agree that there most likely are empty apartments around which is held back bu investors - but I am sure MS knows less about this than us. 

Do you remember when they said that JBR coming on-stream would sink the rentals and prices in general. How wrong they were. I am not saying prices will not fall - but MS knows shi..th about this. Also the Abu Dhabi scenario seems wrong - if AD will go up by 25% and already being more expensive than Dubai - we will see people buying in Dubai and shuttle back and forth.


----------



## Mavekris

*Sindbad*

Can you please create the poll stuff which you created for Best place to invest in dubai

So much talk happening about the price correction it will be intresting to see the results for 


How many think there will be a price correction in 2009,2010,2011,2012

What areas will be least effected and which will be the most.

Appreciate if you can do that 

Thanks


----------



## AITU

Morten_Denmark said:


> In Ameinfo there is a variant of the article. The exccesive supply are to be found in the Marina and JLT - to my knowledge (which off course is modest small) I dont see many units being completed in 2009 from this marina area. I agree that there most likely are empty apartments around which is held back bu investors - but I am sure MS knows less about this than us.
> 
> Do you remember when they said that JBR coming on-stream would sink the rentals and prices in general. How wrong they were. I am not saying prices will not fall - but MS knows shi..th about this. Also the Abu Dhabi scenario seems wrong - if AD will go up by 25% and already being more expensive than Dubai - we will see people buying in Dubai and shuttle back and forth.


^^Steve / Morten

I am completely in agreement with both your posts. These "experts" aren't worth the paper they write on.


----------



## bizzybonita

Property court to open in Dubai next month 

Published: August 07, 2008, 23:59


Dubai: Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) will shortly create a property court with operations starting in September.

Currently, most people with disputes contact Rera in the hope a solution will be found.

The majority of cases do not make it to the civil court as investors are put off by a waiting period of anywhere between 18 months and three years.

However, with the new court, investors, end-users, tenants, contractors and developers will be able to have disputes heard in a much shorter time-frame.

"Rera has a huge amount of work to do already. Once the court is in place, it will have a better market understanding than the civil courts," said Michael Kortbawi, partner at Bin Shabib law firm.

Real estate is playing a large role in generating revenues for the Dubai government.


----------



## alchemy

so can somebody please give me a run-down on what off-the-plan properties are selling at now?? i am looking at a 2bdrm unit as an investment


----------



## IISinbadII

alchemy said:


> so can somebody please give me a run-down on what off-the-plan properties are selling at now?? i am looking at a 2bdrm unit as an investment


^^ Think completed or near-completion property. 

Off-plan are either too expensive (primary developers) or too risky (secondary developers).


----------



## smussuw

guys do u know any companies doing false ceiling? something fancy !


----------



## abf

rags said:


> Steve,
> 
> Thanks for all your very interesting and useful posts. Much appreciated.
> 
> My own opinion is this. Dubai market may indeed 'correct' (a lousy word) sometime but, in the main, that is not my point. I just wanted to say that I have stopped putting any premium on 'expert opinions' such as those of MS since I feel many of these banks have no credibility left whatsoever. MS, Citi, UBS, etc have gone wrong so much and so often that they are indeed presumptuous to continue to be offering opinions. The s..t hit the ceiling in their own banks and these worthies could not predict it much less prevent it. Their capabilities to assess risks are so abysmal that if I were them, I would hide my face and run. In fact, far from being able to 'assess', they do not even 'understand or see' risk elements enough in that, I feel, many of them look at just the obvious (such as the first counterparty risk or demand and supply), look at the rearview mirror for the immediate past and proffer opinions. No wonder then that they keep issuing these opinions every next week and further contradict themselves and one another.
> 
> The fact is that there are far too many factors influencing the market, and worse, they all move at breakneck speeds in different directions. Compounding this is the event risk which none can anyway predict.
> 
> I am not saying anything new necessarily but I am of the firm view these days that most 'expert analysts' don't know their rear from their mouth.


Absolutely correct


----------



## Canal Sand Investor

Yes, seems like we investors are caught in the middle. Because we put our money down a couple of years ago, and they only used it to build a model and pay more salespeople to sell more sand, they now don't have enough to build the quality residences we expected.
I guess they are gaining a bit from recent and upcoming sales at above market prices so hopefully can start some contruction soon. If we complain now then this could jeopardize their future sales so we are only left with some sand and a nice model. If we don't complain then we can just keep waiting until Father Christmas comes and delivers our residences one year.

They really do need to get off their butt and sign up the (real) contractor, then at least start some earthworks to shift some of the sand I have invested in.


----------



## IISinbadII

Mavekris said:


> Can you please create the poll stuff which you created for Best place to invest in dubai
> 
> So much talk happening about the price correction it will be intresting to see the results for
> 
> 
> How many think there will be a price correction in 2009,2010,2011,2012
> 
> What areas will be least effected and which will be the most.
> 
> Appreciate if you can do that
> 
> Thanks


Stop worrying about corrections and market timing. Focus on the fundamentals. If you have done your homework right, discussed with others and paid attention to the basics like prime LOCATION, good price, everyday convenience, great view, easy accessibility, viability of the project, etc you are likely to do fine in the long run.

If you are an investor looking to make quick money.....its a different story.


----------



## amplesou

*smuks*

Canal sand investor welcome!
The main problem is D.Sc. lack of clarity on the situation about canal residence west !
When one directly goes and to speak to the (nice ?) people at D.Sc. you ask them questions and basically they lie! (why, i do not know? )
in 2+ years, they have not informed investors once about this situation 
Mr al zarooni 40% share holder in D.Sc. why don,t you show some integrity
same goes for abdu bukhatir /abdu falaknaz the other main share holders!


----------



## bizzybonita

^^:|


----------



## Smokeey

Does anyone have any opinions on who provides the best shariah-compliant financing? I've had a look at Tamweel and Amlak but would be interested to hear if there is anyone else out there? Also I have heard that alot of these so-called shariah-compliant financing schemes are not really compliant at all, although they claim to be so. Any thoughts/opinions?


----------



## iced

IISinbadII said:


> Stop worrying about corrections and market timing. Focus on the fundamentals. If you have done your homework right, discussed with others and paid attention to the basics like prime LOCATION, good price, everyday convenience, great view, easy accessibility, viability of the project, etc you are likely to do fine in the long run.
> 
> If you are an investor looking to make quick money.....its a different story.


when a correction occurs then it regardless of long/short term it is better to stay in positive equity. lt will be interesting to see what that really means in a couple of years


----------



## aviduser

No one could have seen the calamity of the UK housing crash, yet it's going on right now and it's ugly. 

Reading these forums Dubai could be responsible for its own downfall by building poor quality buildings and then screwing the owners for service charges and lack of facilities, Jumeireih beach being the prime example. 

Add a credit crunch around the world and the amount of money available to buy these places could dry up. 

I see Dubai like an elaborate game of pass the parcel, only the person who get the parcel actually loses. 

People will wise up and people will move on. Just make sure like me you get out before you lose out.


----------



## bizzybonita

Rera to use DED for real estate licensing 

Staff Report
Published: August 10, 2008, 00:02


Dubai: The Dubai Department of Economic Development (DED) and Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) signed a partnership agreement to enhance the quality of support services offered to real estate investors and customers. 

As per the agreement, Rera will use the licence and business registration system applied by the DED for issuing licences related to real estate activities. This is aimed at easing licensing procedures related to real estate activities and enhancing the overall performance of Dubai's real estate sector.

Khalid Al Qasim, deputy director general for planning and development at DED, and Marwan Bin Galita, CEO, Rera, signed the agreement. 

"The agreement comes in line with DED's strategic objective to constantly review existing procedures to simplify rules and regulations. The business registration system at DED has been thoroughly streamlined and made more user-friendly," said Al Qasim.

Investors can set up businesses with the minimum of procedures and paperwork, and DED will assist them by coordinating with other government departments and authorities.

"Through the agreement with Rera, we are reiterating our commitment to work together on initiatives that support the development and progress of the real estate sector in Dubai, which plays a vital role in the economic growth of the emirate," added Al Qasim. 

Rera will set the basics of licensing for real estate activities and implement procedures to speed up the issuance of licences for such activities. 

"Through the agreement with DED, we will share best practices and experiences, and explore mutually beneficial opportunities, which will enhance the quality of support services offered to real estate investors and customers. Our joint initiative will further complement the sustained progress witnessed by the real estate sector," said Bin Galita.

Business owners with old licences. "Rera is keen to launch new real estate activities that comply with international real estate licensing criteria, " said Bin Galita.

Real estate activities include real estate development, consultations, brokerage, rental services, buying real estate, organising public auctions, timeshare residential units rental services, timeshare residential units rental brokerage, real estate pricing services and all related real estate future activities.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

Forget Morgan Stanley... Forget the corrections... Forget the downturn... Forget flipping... Forget speculators... :bash:

I am currently an end-user looking to make another 2-3 year investment... What is the best area / project in Dubai to make an investment???


----------



## iced

aviduser said:


> No one could have seen the calamity of the UK housing crash, yet it's going on right now and it's ugly.
> 
> Reading these forums Dubai could be responsible for its own downfall by building poor quality buildings and then screwing the owners for service charges and lack of facilities, Jumeireih beach being the prime example.
> 
> Add a credit crunch around the world and the amount of money available to buy these places could dry up.
> 
> I see Dubai like an elaborate game of pass the parcel, only the person who get the parcel actually loses.
> 
> People will wise up and people will move on. Just make sure like me you get out before you lose out.


there will be a correction but as always the market will recover. The UAE is a nice place to live so people will buy property to live in. 

The real problem that is going to impact owners are these service charges. I really do believe that 30-40 AED /sqft will be norm and even higher on other developments. This will occur when the strata law is properly implemented.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

mackie1964 said:


> Morten;
> 
> Ask any reputable agent (there is not too many of them in Dubai) and you will get a different story, I can assure you. I know some people have been trying to rent their units out in the Marina for 2.5 months without success, despite lowering the asking price twice.
> 
> I am going to follow Morris, what ever he does. He buys the cheapest unit in the Torch and it turns out to be the best view, he buys AED and the £ collapse the following day....... I was wrong about you Morris, I am not worthy :master::master::master:


Hi Mackie - they should know better than me one would think - I just put out a 2bed for rent in the Marina and after a few days I got a very good offer.


----------



## iced

mackie1964 said:


> ^^ ^^I wish that you are correct Al but it is all about confidence. The Dubai Government indirectly undermining Investors confidence on daily basis and the big companies with major plans for expansion in the region are re-thinking their strategies.
> 
> Everybody keeps talking about the lack of residential units but I know for a fact of 1000s of complete units that investors finding major difficulties in renting them out in good areas like the Marina. Add to this the no of units coming to this Market as distressed sales due to the current financial conditions around the globe.
> 
> Up until the last couple of weeks, I shared your optimism but I am now of the opinion that a correction is imminent :nuts:


The market top is close and i think that this will occur within the next couple of years. Dubai is not different from Singapore and although i dont expect falls to be dramatic, the market is full of speculators. JLT and Marina will have appartments coming online in the next couple of years. Who is going to live there??

Then you have liquidity being reduced along with food inflation. All this points to a top forming. The dollar is appreciating and that will also reduce foreign investment. This of course is going to be offset by money coming in from dubious sources.

I wont be surprised by a big appreciation during Cityscape and then flatness followed by falls in late 2009.

When developers start launching multiple projects rapidly and they are state owned then its time worry. Also when UP starts to moan about reports it shows how fragile things really are


----------



## iced

Morrismarina said:


> I agree with you Alan.............and I agree with you Mackie. :lol:
> 
> It's hard to call the future of the Dubai property market.
> 
> What concerns me though is the strengthening of the Dollar and the weakness of the Pound over the next 18 months. I'm convinced the UK is going to have a currency crisis especially with that idiot Gordon Brown in charge. I reckon we'll see 1.5 Dollars/£ in 18-24 months time. Now that will have a massive effect on UK purchasers and their decison to enter the UAE market.
> 
> Take my developer Select Property currently selling West Avenue at a whopping 2,300 Dirhams per sq ft. Very expensive at 7 Dirhams to the £ ......but now we're down to 6.8 and at a Dollar rate of 1.5 the Dirham will be 5.5 !!! Can't see any UK buyers seeing that sort of price as good value.
> 
> Of course this is assuming I'm right about the exchange rate.......but 1.5 Dollars/£ is where the rate usually settles, at a neutral level. Who knows it could go to parity at 1-1 ........we've seen that more than once over the years...........then we'll all be buggered.
> 
> It's anybody's guess how things play out. Alan has a good point about the expanding population etc. Dubai really is a one-off. My forecast would be for prices to keep going up say another 25% until end of 2009 then staying level for a few years assuming the Pound and Euro don't completely collapse.


The currency weakness of Europe and Uk will definitely have an impact. Its falling already.

If it was known what is the average salary in dubai then that would be interesting. I really wonder how many people earn over 15k with accomodation provided and how many earn 25k plus with housing allowance. My guess is that not that many. Thus the high end stuff will have to fall.

I am also getting worried about how big the falls will be and how long will they last.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Morrismarina said:


> I reckon we'll see 1.5 Dollars/£ in 18-24 months time. Now that will have a massive effect on UK purchasers and their decison to enter the UAE market.


It will also have an impact on those wanting to take advantage in an uncertain market by selling and bringing the money back to the UK. Less demand + more supply = falling prices. However, I do not see the same situation as in the UK right now which will most likely have an overdue 30% correction due to inability to pay fraudulently obtained mortgages. I think demand in general in Dubai will catch up with supply at a reasonably rate after the initial imbalance of late 2009 / early 2010. However due to high prices and rents stabilizing or decreasing, yields will not recover and we should not expect prices hikes over the next few years until demand is much higher and wages increase. People in Dubai are currently struggling to pay rents and high mortgages many having to do 2 jobs.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Rents in Dubai are static after recording five months of declines, a Dubai-based investment bank said on Thursday.

In a research note, Al Mal Capital said, "rental yields remained flat in July versus June at a median rental yield of 6.8 per cent and compared to 7.8 per cent in July last year.

The report further said, "the year over year decline in rental yields has been driven mainly by higher prices as the median rent in Dubai has increased by roughly 23 per cent over last year levels."

Commercial properties showed a decline in the median rental yield to 11.9 per cent in July from 12.4 per cent in June. The seasonal slowdown continued in July with prices in the residential segment only increasing a moderate 0.7 per cent over last month. However the report pointed out that the office market remained "quite strong" recording a 3.7 per cent month on month increase.

Commenting on the outlook for the Dubai market it added that price performance in the real estate market "has already exceeded even our year-end target of Dh1,817 per square feet, published in the beginning of this year."

It added, "though Dubai has experienced significant yield compression (about 100 basis points) yields still have a bit to come down in our opinion (and) we still contend that yield compression will come from real estate price appreciation rather than declining rental prices."|


----------



## worried1

*Redirecting some Dubai investments into Brazil*

Anyone know of a good blog site for Brazilian properties, where the conversation is in ENGLISH and not portugese. Thanks:cheers:


----------



## worried1

*propertyabroad.com*

Has anybody done any dealings with this company in UK and what is their reputation.

Thanks:cheers:


----------



## mackie1964

*Where will it end?*


----------



## rohitD

I recently booked an office with Dynasty Zarooni in the highly advertised Ebony Tower.

I have been baffled ever since I bought it because my office space as per my contract is 14,664 sq ft and

I came across a shocking document of MoU signed between DZ and Al Fajer Properties along with the spreadsheet of sales and floor plans which clearly states the floor size to be 11,300 sq ft.

This difference roughly amounts to be 30% and is an indigestible difference.

Transparent calculations have shown that DZ has already or in some cases is currently receiving premiums from the contract.

The part that sends a shiver down my spine is that DZ does not have an escrow account

With the kind of scams going around these days, I have a series of questions starting....

What happens if Al Fajer is telling the truth about the floor space and DZ isn’t
How do we get re imbursed... blah blah... especially if there is no escrow
Who is Hilal Zarooni and Kabir Mulchandani
Why is Gulf News mis representing the facts. Isnt it a very credible news source?
What is the procedure for taking legal action!

Alot of things don’t make sense here and I hope I can find some answers

There is a big “IF” attached to my presumably new office set up i.e if DZ is not a total hoax

In one case, I m losing quite alot and in the second one I stand to lose everything.

Confusion!


----------



## dubinv

rohitD said:


> I recently booked an office with Dynasty Zarooni in the highly advertised Ebony Tower.
> 
> I have been baffled ever since I bought it because my office space as per my contract is 14,664 sq ft and
> 
> I came across a shocking document of MoU signed between DZ and Al Fajer Properties along with the spreadsheet of sales and floor plans which clearly states the floor size to be 11,300 sq ft.
> 
> This difference roughly amounts to be 30% and is an indigestible difference.
> 
> Transparent calculations have shown that DZ has already or in some cases is currently receiving premiums from the contract.
> 
> The part that sends a shiver down my spine is that DZ does not have an escrow account
> 
> With the kind of scams going around these days, I have a series of questions starting....
> 
> What happens if Al Fajer is telling the truth about the floor space and DZ isn’t
> How do we get re imbursed... blah blah... especially if there is no escrow
> Who is Hilal Zarooni and Kabir Mulchandani
> Why is Gulf News mis representing the facts. Isnt it a very credible news source?
> What is the procedure for taking legal action!
> 
> Alot of things don’t make sense here and I hope I can find some answers
> 
> There is a big “IF” attached to my presumably new office set up i.e if DZ is not a total hoax
> 
> In one case, I m losing quite alot and in the second one I stand to lose everything.
> 
> Confusion!


Ebony and Ivory are in fact jumeirah business center 7 and 8. DZ bought the two towers, changed the name and resale them with the gross area and not the net area. It's why they seem cheaper than JBC. But Al Fajer is the developper of these 2 towers and they build them


----------



## Mavekris

^^What % did you pay them ?

Stop any further payments.

What DZ does is buys the complete buildings from the developer mostly mazaya projects.

And markets them with their own changed payement plan with crazy prices 

They are to comercial with no work ethics.

Better stay away from them, get your money back if youc can


----------



## jacobdxb

mackie1964 said:


>


^^ I think the UK based investors should see this as an opportunity to gain twice:

1) on the actual price increase in AED
2) on the exchange rate... 

:cheers:


----------



## BenjiDXB

I have been thinking about> who is going to live in JLT and the Marina, which is of interest to a lot of people on this forum, because many of us invested there. Well, maybe I am naive, but in about 5 years from now most of JLT and the Marina should be MUCH more attractive than now, so I guess more people would like to live there, than let s say in Sports City, Motor City, Dubai Investment Park Green Community, IMPZ, Rimram, Mizin, Dubai World Central or any of those developments in the middle of nowhere...furthermore I think that the JLT and the Marina will remain a good alternative for people, who work in Abu Dhabi, as the commute is feasable, it maybe cheaper than AD and you have the Dubai lifestyle with more things to do...and the location of the Marina and JLT will be pretty unbeatable, connected to the Metro, in the middle of new Dubai, pretty much right between old Dubai and Palm Jebel Ali/Waterfront, between the two airports, and with a little bit of a holiday feeling, sea views and the beach very close...

Another thing comes to my mind: I arrived in Dubai in the year 2000. At that time apartments and office space were easily available...in many buildings in Bur Dubai 30 or 40 per cent of all apartments were empty. Villas were also very easy to find, the choice of available places was endless. Total oversupply. But landlords never went down with the rent. Generally people just kept the rent as it was and waited, until they found somebody who was ready to pay...and eventually they found, as we all know. I could imagine that the same scenario will happen again, when the oversupply situation comes again in 2 years time...if it comes at all....


----------



## cugeneva

*Dubai Marina - location, location, location ???*

When checking the alineah average selling price for the Dubai Marina, it stands currently at approx 2000 AED/sqf.

I do understand that this price is on average but could somebody explain to me why a completed 1 BR, furnished (okay that's done quite ugly, at least to my taste :lol: ) with partial sea view (not front line property) but decent size (around 1000 sqf) does not sell although the asking price is only 1350AED /sqf?

From an investment point of view, this still could reach up to 10% ......but it does not seem getting any interest from investors as it is on the market for some time.

Does this mean that only properties located directly at the waterfront do have potential and investors should stay away from projects in second line?

Any advice would be appreciated


----------



## BenjiDXB

cugeneva said:


> When checking the alineah average selling price for the Dubai Marina, it stands currently at approx 2000 AED/sqf.
> 
> I do understand that this price is on average but could somebody explain to me why a completed 1 BR, furnished (okay that's done quite ugly, at least to my taste :lol: ) with partial sea view (not front line property) but decent size (around 1000 sqf) does not sell although the asking price is only 1350AED /sqf?
> 
> From an investment point of view, this still could reach up to 10% ......but it does not seem getting any interest from investors as it is on the market for some time.
> 
> Does this mean that only properties located directly at the waterfront do have potential and investors should stay away from projects in second line?
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated




depends on the building (name) and the quality of the finishing, fittings, appliances, the location within the marina (posh end or arse end), the floor (high?) and the view...can you let us know more ?


----------



## cugeneva

BenjiDXB said:


> depends on the building (name) and the quality of the finishing, fittings, appliances, the location within the marina (posh end or arse end), the floor (high?) and the view...can you let us know more ?


I don't know the quality of the finishing, fittings and appliances. I have just seen pics of the furnishing ohno:hno but this can be changed easily. It is in Marina Pearl on the 4 floor of a five story building, a corner appartment. I agree it is the a*** end of the Marina, but still it is in the Marina and facing seawards......

For investment, I would be attempted to buy it...... well just lacking the money :nuts:
However, how is it possible that such an apartment is on the market when the rents for 1BR get nuts (115,000 - 150,000AED/yr) ?
This is something I do not understand. If they would ask for 1800 - 2000/sqf, okay I would not pay such an amount for a second line property.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

*Interesting Read... Ajman still seems a dangerous investment to me...*

*Investors from Pakistan flock to Ajman *
By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: August 15, 2008, 23:58

http://www.gulf-news.com/business/Investment/10237589.html

Dubai: While the Gulf region is riding the swelling wave of real estate as the rest of the globe crashes under the credit crunch, in the relatively lesser known emirate of Ajman business is booming.

There is $2 trillion worth of projects underway in all sectors in the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC), according to market estimates. And a massive $330 billion of this is set aside for civil construction projects. This unstoppable construction boom is there for all to see, marvel at and invest in.

While the weakened dollar creates chaos in the once stable markets of the US and the UK, developers in the east are seizing opportunities here in the Gulf, not only in Dubai but perhaps the dark horse of all the emirates, Ajman. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


With an area of just 260 square kilometres, Ajman is the smallest of the seven emirates and the second emirate, behind Dubai, to offer freehold property. The current population of Ajman is a little over 360,000.

As the political problems in Pakistan intensify, Ajman is benefiting from the Pakistani developers flocking to the emirate in droves.

Hasnain Raza Lathubhai, partner at UAE-based development company, Skymax agreed the current political tensions in Pakistan are not helping business. He said there probably is a link between the situation and the increase in Pakistani money in UAE property projects. "To tell you the truth, things are pretty down. But Pakistan, if you look at its history, has gone through down periods like this before, and always comes out more expensive and more developed," Lathubhai said.

There are countless Pakistani developers building in Ajman, obviously seeing it as the ideal place to plunge millions of real estate dirhams.

Chapal World, Sweet Homes, Property House and Al Barakah are just a handful of developers throwing themselves into a plethora of mega-projects taking shape all along the Emirates Road in Ajman and in Ajman city itself.

These projects include Emirates City, Humaid City, Ajman Uptown, Awali City and Al Zorah.

Combined, they have a total development cost of well over Dh250 billion. To support such massive development, the Ajman government is also implementing a $1.4-billion infrastructure plan designed to beef up investor confidence in the emirate.

"As the third largest property market in the UAE, Ajman offers very attractive prospects for Pakistani investors," said Tahir Hussain, a vice president of the Pakistan Business Council in Dubai and also managing director of Schon Properties.

Hussain attributed increasing investor attraction to Ajman to government plans to build an international airport, improve infrastructure and the development of a host of large-scale developments are all contributing to the future boom of the emirate.

Lathubhai said the business relationship between Pakistan and the UAE is "more than close," due to the relaxed government policies and the well-known ease of doing business here.

Pakistan's popularity for real estate development can be clearly seen with the number of UAE developers looking across the water to Pakistan for lucrative development opportunities.

However, some developers wishing to expand in Pakistan have found it difficult to break into the market, with many pointing to the rising political tensions as the root cause.

UAE developer Limitless was recently in talks with the Pakistan government to develop the multi-billion Karachi Waterfront. However, discussions appear to have stalled for the time being for unspecified reasons.


----------



## Raza01

Ajman is picking up now i think it is good time to buy.


----------



## Imre

dangerous if you buy from no name developer, otherwise very good business.


----------



## Richard Head

Imre said:


> dangerous if you buy from no name developer, otherwise very good business.


Imre, I think you are absolutely right, if anything likely to be even more cowboy developers in Ajman than Dubai, but who are tyhe reliable ones, and are they subject to the same laws / controls as in Dubai? Is there an Ajman equivalent of Emaar / Nakheel (although I realise even these 2 have had problems, you at least know they're not going to bust and run off with your money !!). Any advice on this appreciated, I am keen to try Ajman for investment but only if I have some kind of reliability

Thanks

Richard


----------



## hemelboorder

*Marina Pearl*



cugeneva said:


> Do I sum up correctly that buying an apartment in Dubai Marina for investment should only be made if there is an unobstructed view? I remember some discussion in the Zumrud thread where people got crazy buying the last remaining studios with no view and quite expensive based on the assumption that this would rent out fast with good ROI.
> According to your assessment apartments in Marina Pearl rent out easily, so why is nobody interested in buy it to make 8% ROI??? hno:hno:hno: The construction work will be finished at some point and then I am sure the price per sqf will raise like in any other part of the Marina. So why is it not selling now?
> 
> I must admit, the maths in Dubai seems to be too difficult for me :nuts:












Actually, cugeneva , while I was looking for an apartment in the Marina, I came by Marina Pearl and skipped it right away as an option. It is not just the absence of view. Everything at this building is unappealing. Look at the shops at the ground level ... how ugly, unorganised, and cheapy they appear!

I guess I am not the only one who thought so, given the fact that the apartement you mentioned is relatively cheap.


----------



## IISinbadII

bizzybonita said:


> Property rental index to start early next year
> 
> 
> A property index that will recommend rents for different types of homes in areas across Dubai has moved a step closer.
> 
> The Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) has completed the formula that will define rent structures and is preparing to launch the index at the beginning of next year.
> 
> "The index will stop landlords exaggerating and increasing rents," Mohammed Khalifa bin Hamad, director of Owners' Relationship Management Department in Rera, told Emirates Business on Tuesday.
> 
> "Rera has defined the average annual rents for studios, one, two and three-bedroom apartments and compound and single villas."
> 
> However *the scheme will not be legally binding and is designed to act as an indicator* for landlords that shows the fair rent rate for each unit in each building or compound.
> 
> Bin Hamad said the move would create transparency over rent rates for each area and would will help investors to prepare their strategies.


Good news.


----------



## DynastyZarooni

rohitD said:


> I recently booked an office with Dynasty Zarooni in the highly advertised Ebony Tower.
> 
> I have been baffled ever since I bought it because my office space as per my contract is 14,664 sq ft and
> 
> I came across a shocking document of MoU signed between DZ and Al Fajer Properties along with the spreadsheet of sales and floor plans which clearly states the floor size to be 11,300 sq ft.
> 
> This difference roughly amounts to be 30% and is an indigestible difference.
> 
> Transparent calculations have shown that DZ has already or in some cases is currently receiving premiums from the contract.
> 
> The part that sends a shiver down my spine is that DZ does not have an escrow account
> 
> With the kind of scams going around these days, I have a series of questions starting....
> 
> What happens if Al Fajer is telling the truth about the floor space and DZ isn’t
> How do we get re imbursed... blah blah... especially if there is no escrow
> Who is Hilal Zarooni and Kabir Mulchandani
> Why is Gulf News mis representing the facts. Isnt it a very credible news source?
> What is the procedure for taking legal action!
> 
> Alot of things don’t make sense here and I hope I can find some answers
> 
> There is a big “IF” attached to my presumably new office set up i.e if DZ is not a total hoax
> 
> In one case, I m losing quite alot and in the second one I stand to lose everything.
> 
> Confusion!


FOR THE ATTENTION OF JUNIOR MEMBER : rohitd (aka: Rohit Dadakar)
The nature of the blog comments which you have posted regarding our company have been brought to my attention and I would like to very clearly, formally respond and clarify for the record each of your points to this audience. 
The points you have made with reference to the Dynasty Zarooni Inc “Ebony & Ivory” development project located in Jumeriah Lake Towers, Dubai;UAE are incorrectly stated and for that matter I would like to clarify the actual facts pertaining to this project.

1.	The “Ebony & Ivory” buildings were purchased by Dynasty Zarooni Inc from Al Fajer Properties LLC. The reference details of these projects are as follows:
Ivory 1	: Also known as Jumeriah Business Center – Plot G3-JBC8
Ivory2	: Also known as Jumeriah Business Center – Plot H1-JBC7
Ebony 1	: Also known as Jumeriah Business Center – Plot H3-JBC9

2.	A 20% payment has been made to Al Fajer Properties LLC.

3.	The project is Escrow compliant

4.	This project has been sold onto Dynasty Zarooni Inc purchasers, who in turn, were assisted by Dynasty Zarooni Inc in the capacity of providing them with a 6 months time period to pay this 20% payment, without charge of any interest. Dynasty Zarooni Inc has already signed unit SPA’s (Sale & Purchase Agreement) with Al Fajer Properties LLC for every unit in the above aforementioned Towers. On receipt of this 20% payment, Dynasty Zarooni shall assign the unit SPA’s to the purchaser of the relevant unit.

5.	With reference to the point relating to Area Differentials, it is clearly stated on the Dynasty Zarooni Inc Receipts’ provided to all purchasers, that a typical floor within this aforementioned Tower has the following clearly defined area designation:
Gross Area	: 14,690 sq ft
Net Area	: 11,314 sq ft
Thus, no purchaser of the Ebony1 (Project: H3-JBC9) will be surprised by this information as it remains entirely transparent to the purchaser throughout the purchase process.

Our records indicate that the blogger (rohitd – Member aka. Mr Rohit Dadakar.) is NOT a purchaser of any Ebony 1 unit in his own name (also known as Jumeriah Business Center – H3-JBC9 ) and thus the blog statement made by this person is wholly unfounded. We would ask Mr Rohit Dadakar to communicate his complete contact details, including passport details, correspondence information so that our Lawyers may take up this matter directly.

We would appreciate that any such queries regarding our companies projects be directed to us in the first instance and we would to happy to address any such genuine queries in order to avoid any misrepresentation in future being aired on the Internet in such blog channels, which are wholly incorrect in fact and furthermore clarify our companies’ standpoint. In future we would kindly request that the Moderator or Active Member within this on-line community, kindly verify that all facts are clearly confirmed in order to avoid future instances of erroneous statements.

N. Vishram
CEO 
Dynasty Al Zarooni Real Estate LLC
Dubai; UAE

20th August 2008.


----------



## Imre

welcome on the SSC N. Vishram and thanks for the useful comment!


----------



## Opus 2009

blurred said:


> Hi,
> 
> For everyone who has been investing in the dubai property market...do you think that the current uncertain Iran crisis will have an effect on the dubai property market in the coming months?
> 
> We know that the tensions between Iran and the US have been steadily escalating for the last few months and today there is news that Kuwait will begin evacuation drills to prepare for any emergencies because of a possible threat of war.
> 
> Though I have several investments in dubai and was planning on expanding them further...Would it be sensible to hold back property investment for sometime and stay in a watchful waiting period, until things calm down politically?
> 
> IMO, if there is some sort of political unrest or prolonged uncertainity in the gulf region, it will have a negative effect on the property prices in dubai. It might even force some people/companies to review their plans of living/operating in Dubai and in turn, disturb the Demand & Supply dynamics.
> 
> Is there a cause for concern or am I just being plain paranoid? Please share your opinions.


^^
The risks have always been there in one form or the other. The Iran/US spat is the latest one. During the Gulf War - Dubai boomed! The situation is a lot different now to 20 years ago when people would pack bags and board ship at the smallest hint of trouble. Now many many people have roots in Dubai, have bought property and therefore will probably stick around whatever happened.


----------



## High Times

Many Iranians will flock to Dubai with their money as soon as George Dublya gets his pistols outa heys pants.


----------



## Pure Dubai

Whilst this forum shouldn't be a place to discuss specific issues relating to individuals property deals, I would have to commend Dynasty Zarnooni for proving that they are open to discussion and are available to be contacted.

I have had so many experiences with UAE Government developers such as Nakheel, Emaar and TDIC of Abu Dhabi; trying to contact anyone there is near on imposible. The more developers / brokerages / investment houses that decide to have a presence online and asnwer questions the better.


----------



## dxbchild

*New Dubai Mortgage Law*

Mortgage law boosts investor confidence 
Gulf News
Published: August 19, 2008, 23:32


Dubai: The Dubai Government has issued a Mortgage Law that officials say will help better regulate the emirate's growing housing market, partly tainted by project delays and corruption probes.

His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, issued the decree, legalising the housing finance sector in a 35-article law based on international best practices. 

The law, which comes into effect 60 days after its publication in the official gazette, stipulates that mortgage contracts be registered with the Dubai Land Department, specifying the size of the loan, the repayment period and the value of the property. 

The law also requires that mortgages taken out on properties in Dubai be sold by registered financial institutions, and be insured. 

Officials and analysts said the law will boost investor confidence in the market and expand the housing finance sector.

"This is part of the government's initiative to support and regulate the market," Arif Al Harmi, chief executive of mortgage lender Amlak Finance, told Gulf News.


----------



## dxbchild

*Mazaya Holding*

Hi, I am evaluating buying Queue Point at Mizin Liwan. This is developed by Mazaya holdings. I'd appreciate if someone can provide me with any positive or negative information on the property or the developer.

Thanks...


----------



## Mavekris

^^@what rate ?


----------



## High Times

Is information held by the Dubai Land Department publicly available ?


----------



## rexdmx

www.rpdubai.com

soon all info would be available i think


----------



## High Times

This will make the data more accurate to monitor what units are selling for i think.

A bit like the land rigistry info in the UK.

http://www.houseprices.co.uk/


----------



## Imre

dxbchild said:


> Hi, I am evaluating buying Queue Point at Mizin Liwan. This is developed by Mazaya holdings. I'd appreciate if someone can provide me with any positive or negative information on the property or the developer.
> 
> Thanks...


Mazaya is a huge company , Sky Gardens (DIFC) was fast and the quality is very good( I havent seen , one of my friend said, maybe the best quality in Dubai what he has ever seen).

another project in the JLT , Mazaya Business Avenue,3 towers, already rising, if I remember good , 2 towers bought the Zarooni Group at the launch.

I went to the Liwan site last Friday, only the Queue Point U/C .

I think good developer,I can not say anything bad , I have never had any contact with them.


----------



## Dubai Addiction

For people who invested or want to invest in Jumeirah Lakes Towers project, I recently finished my 3d model of the project and now I have the ability to give you an idea what your view will be when the project is completed. Just PM me if you're interested.


----------



## Imre

good news for the DL investors if its true.

Gulfnews:

*Schon offers refunds on delayed projects *
Staff Report
Published: August 20, 2008, 23:44


Dubai: Schon Properties, developer of the Dh3 billion Dubai Lagoon project, has confirmed that full refunds will be given to all investors that purchased units scheduled for completion by December 2007. 

The refund policy has been extended by Schon as an act of goodwill after confusion amongst some investors in regards to the project phases and revised completion dates, the company said in a statement yesterday. 

Delays in completion of Dubai Lagoon have been the direct result of unanticipated civic and transportation infrastructure alterations, which have set back construction and produced scheduling issues, the company said. 


"We at Schon Properties applaud and fully support the efforts of RTA [Roads and Transport Authority] and other government agencies to make Dubai a better place and we have re-designed our project to accommodate mandatory infrastructure developments imposed subsequent to the launch of the Dubai Lagoon," said Nasser Hussain, co-chairman of Schon Properties.

Schon has been in discussions with Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) to clarify the situation and reach a fair solution for all parties. While not common practice in the UAE, the revised refund policy was approved by Schon board of directors during a board meeting held on Tuesday, to accommodate investors and demonstrate good faith. 

Investors who purchased units with a completion date of December 2007 are eligible for a full refund and are directed to apply for this prior to September 15.

In a recent statement about Schon Properties and the Dubai Lagoon, Marwan Bin Galita, CEO of Rera, characterised the objections of some investors as "a misunderstanding". He said, "Schon [Properties] is a registered developer with us and they have an open trust account and all the money from the Dubai Lagoon [project] is in trust account handled by the Land Department and Rera. 

Rera issued a press release this week dismissing reports that the project had been cancelled and pledging continued involvement and monitoring of construction works.

Schon has also confirmed that the agreement with the original contractors Powerline Gulf has been renegotiated to include the first two zones and construction is due resume in the coming weeks. 

The first zone is now set for completion within 13 months and the second zone is set for completion within 18 months as of July 28. Negotiations with another leading contractor to handle the remaining zones are currently being finalised of which official appointments by Schon will be announced shortly.

Investors who purchased units with a completion date of December 2007 are eligible for a full refund and are directed to apply for this prior to September 15.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Most contracts allow for full refunds if handover is not by a certain date. I know all of Select's contracts do for example. However, most would prefer to resale at a huge profit rather than get a refund


----------



## 234sale

Projects that are delayed are the best ones to buy as you get a full refund if its delayed.. Hence why I would buy anything dirrect from a developer as long as I know they cant finish and the contract says I get a full refund..

Even if the price was ever to go down,, You still get 100% of your money back as long as they are late.

No Brainer

Only risk would be a company going under, or running away.


----------



## FWIW

^^ Sorry sale - you lost me! How can it be good if I give my hard earned cash to a developer for several years and then they give it back without any compensation?


----------



## Imre

building a prison seems good investments in Dubai

Gulfnews:

*Lagoons CEO Abdul Salam Al Marri faces corruption probe *
By Saifur Rahman, Business Editor
Published: August 21, 2008, 14:05


Dubai: Abdul Salam Al Marri, chief executive of the Lagoons - a project by Sama Dubai, a Dubai Government owned real estate developer, is facing probe, Gulf News has learnt.

"We just came to know that he has come under investigation," a source close to Sama Dubai, said.

Sama Dubai's flagship project, the Lagoons - on Dubai Creek has been delayed. The project is expected to house Dubai Towers, Dubai - the four towers at the core of its development.

The news comes amid a government crackdown on bribery and corruption - mostly in the real estate sector.

Police began the probe on three government officials on corruption. Market sources hinted that many more heads are expected to roll.

Dubai government, in a recent statement, has announced zero tolerence against corruption. 

"The Government of Dubai will take strict and prompt action against all acts of corruption and bribery wherever they occur in the emirate, whether in the public of private sectors," Dubai's Public Prosecutor said in a recent statement.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Arrival figures show Dubai is booming with developers looking to the long term*

Pessimists may worry about the property market in Dubai but the latest figures show the place is booming with 25,000 people taking up residence every month.

That works out at 33 people an hour and these figures don't include tourists who have now surpassed the 5 million per year mark. With the current population already topping 1.6 million it is anticipated that by 2010 there will be 2.2 million, with long term estimations of over 4 million residents by 2020.

There can be little doubt that Dubai is booming. 'To get some sort of visual perspective on the numbers involved and the overriding popularity of Dubai, it is perhaps easier to imagine the equivalent of the crowd of a premiership football match arriving every month,' said Oliver Hickey European Finance Director of Profile Europe (UK) Ltd, real estate and property consultants.

'Such an influx of foreign nationals is having the desired affect on Dubai and almost every industry is benefiting as more and more migrants stoke this thriving economy. With Dubai ideally positioned between East and West and vying to become the number one transit hub for world travellers, effectively knocking Singapore of its perch, its long term investment possibilities are superb with few other world destinations coming even close to Dubai,' he added.

The large developers are also confident. State owned Dubai Properties is set to almost double its real estate investment to $272.2 billion within the next five years. Mohamed Binbrek, CEO of Dubai Properties Group, said the company has 26 property plots still to be developed.


----------



## rohitD

*vishran saab... u plz gimme ur visa details... promise i ll throw it in da red sea... T.I.D(This Is Dubai)... not your hometown!*



DynastyZarooni said:


> FOR THE ATTENTION OF JUNIOR MEMBER : rohitd (aka: Rohit Dadakar)
> The nature of the blog comments which you have posted regarding our company have been brought to my attention and I would like to very clearly, formally respond and clarify for the record each of your points to this audience.
> The points you have made with reference to the Dynasty Zarooni Inc “Ebony & Ivory” development project located in Jumeriah Lake Towers, Dubai;UAE are incorrectly stated and for that matter I would like to clarify the actual facts pertaining to this project.
> 
> 1.	The “Ebony & Ivory” buildings were purchased by Dynasty Zarooni Inc from Al Fajer Properties LLC. The reference details of these projects are as follows:
> Ivory 1	: Also known as Jumeriah Business Center – Plot G3-JBC8
> Ivory2	: Also known as Jumeriah Business Center – Plot H1-JBC7
> Ebony 1	: Also known as Jumeriah Business Center – Plot H3-JBC9
> 
> 2.	A 20% payment has been made to Al Fajer Properties LLC.
> 
> 3.	The project is Escrow compliant
> 
> 4.	This project has been sold onto Dynasty Zarooni Inc purchasers, who in turn, were assisted by Dynasty Zarooni Inc in the capacity of providing them with a 6 months time period to pay this 20% payment, without charge of any interest. Dynasty Zarooni Inc has already signed unit SPA’s (Sale & Purchase Agreement) with Al Fajer Properties LLC for every unit in the above aforementioned Towers. On receipt of this 20% payment, Dynasty Zarooni shall assign the unit SPA’s to the purchaser of the relevant unit.
> 
> 5.	With reference to the point relating to Area Differentials, it is clearly stated on the Dynasty Zarooni Inc Receipts’ provided to all purchasers, that a typical floor within this aforementioned Tower has the following clearly defined area designation:
> Gross Area	: 14,690 sq ft
> Net Area	: 11,314 sq ft
> Thus, no purchaser of the Ebony1 (Project: H3-JBC9) will be surprised by this information as it remains entirely transparent to the purchaser throughout the purchase process.
> 
> Our records indicate that the blogger (rohitd – Member aka. Mr Rohit Dadakar.) is NOT a purchaser of any Ebony 1 unit in his own name (also known as Jumeriah Business Center – H3-JBC9 ) and thus the blog statement made by this person is wholly unfounded. We would ask Mr Rohit Dadakar to communicate his complete contact details, including passport details, correspondence information so that our Lawyers may take up this matter directly.
> 
> We would appreciate that any such queries regarding our companies projects be directed to us in the first instance and we would to happy to address any such genuine queries in order to avoid any misrepresentation in future being aired on the Internet in such blog channels, which are wholly incorrect in fact and furthermore clarify our companies’ standpoint. In future we would kindly request that the Moderator or Active Member within this on-line community, kindly verify that all facts are clearly confirmed in order to avoid future instances of erroneous statements.
> 
> N. Vishram
> CEO
> Dynasty Al Zarooni Real Estate LLC
> Dubai; UAE
> 
> 20th August 2008.


DYNASTY ZAROONI PLEASE RESPOND TO EVERYTHING!

Sir Vishran, I dont need to make up stories. plz pick up our Mumbai Mirror or check online at its site.: KABIR MUlchndani and Dynasty Zarooni are on the cover of INDIAN TABLOIDS ON TODAY MEAIN STORIES.... I REPEAT...TODAY:

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/net/mmp...5&contentid=200808232008082302260752817e4982d

Only a matter o time before we get our refund no matter where we are

I dont need to lie about anythin................................. unlike YOU
and sir, you are an equal party to all this... look at the way you profess n try to facet lies! YOu piece o dash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i dont have nythin to hide!

Please respond!


----------



## RajaRizi

*Need Advice.*

I am new to Dubai real estate market. I've never been to Dubai. I need some guidance on, what you guys think is the best opportunity for someone to buy property in Dubai.

My budget is not huge, I am looking between 1M to 1.5M UAE dirhams of investment to start with.

Any help appreciated, on what things to look for, is it easy to rent or one should just invest in new and upcoming buildings and focus more on appreciation as opposed to rent money. 
What are the best builders, real estate agents etc to work with. 
What things to look for while doing investment in Dubai.
What things one should avoid.
How to check and make sure builder or companies one is dealing with are not fraud etc.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Imre

Morten_Denmark said:


> Hi Imre
> 
> That is really great - I am looking forward to see these details. Yes, it was the same number I was calling - you must have a speciel line to DP


too many beers already pending :lol::cheers:

at the moment they have few apartments in the Sadaf area.(behind the Ritz Hotel)

few example: 1 bed, 1052 sqft , 1st floor , 2.46 M
1 b/r , above the 20th floor, 1423 sqft , 2,7 M
2 b/r, Upper podium, 1800 sqft, 3.4 M
3 b/r, Upper podium, 1700 sqft, 3,2 M

5% booking , 95 % on handover (around a month)

as I see the layout of the big 1 b/r , easy to make a 2 B/r there.

tomorrow I will have 2 keys, I will check the location, quality,view etc..


----------



## Imre

Hanna said:


> Hi Imre
> 
> Do you know anyone that would market my apartment in Ocean Heights
> Thanks in advance :cheers:


send me the details by pm and I will forward.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Imre said:


> too many beers already pending :lol::cheers:
> 
> at the moment they have few apartments in the Sadaf area.(behind the Ritz Hotel)
> 
> few example: 1 bed, 1052 sqft , 1st floor , 2.46 M
> 1 b/r , above the 20th floor, 1423 sqft , 2,7 M
> 2 b/r, Upper podium, 1800 sqft, 3.4 M
> 3 b/r, Upper podium, 1700 sqft, 3,2 M
> 
> 5% booking , 95 % on handover (around a month)
> 
> as I see the layout of the big 1 b/r , easy to make a 2 B/r there.
> 
> tomorrow I will have 2 keys, I will check the location, quality,view etc..



Also beers to you are now pending.

The 1 b/r seem to be an excellent offer - yes definitely easy to make to a 2 b/r even though you wil be missing the bathroom. I have now also made contact with DP


----------



## austdec

Hi Imre,

I have been told we will have internet connection in Indigo Tower within the next week!

Have you heard the same where you are?

I will believe it when I see it!


----------



## Imre

ahh, we have the same story , always next week or month ,but still nothing, we will see


----------



## docc

1BR for 2.46M is not a very good investment. Rental yield will not be more than 150-170k per annum and if you remove maintenance costs of another 20k, you are left with 130-150k which is just about 5-6%.

Ofcourse, if you are thinking about purchasing for a flip, thats a different story.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

docc said:


> 1BR for 2.46M is not a very good investment. Rental yield will not be more than 150-170k per annum and if you remove maintenance costs of another 20k, you are left with 130-150k which is just about 5-6%.
> 
> Ofcourse, if you are thinking about purchasing for a flip, thats a different story.


Dubai Marina - finished apartment (>1400 sqf) - less than 1900 psf. Seems like a safe and good investment to me for capital gain. Or even better - a buy for the end user.


----------



## High Times

^^

Morten,

What do you think the Dubai Marina price average psf will be in 2011 ?


----------



## Morten_Denmark

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> Morten,
> 
> What do you think the Dubai Marina price average psf will be in 2011 ?


I think no matter what happens in Dubai the Marina will always be attractive so no significant price drop there. If we agree that average psf is 2000 now - I believe prices will increase to 2700 psf in 2011. This is approx 10% per year.


----------



## kevin_1980in

*Dubai Property Law*

Found the below on one of the property forums. 

"Here's a article that gives a good insight on the property regulations in Dubai including what is freehold, leasehold, care to be taken by buyers/sellers, inheritance etc. Take a look

Dubai Property Law

You will need to select the download location by clicking 'choose the download location'"


----------



## 69er

lol my budget was way less then u , i purchased 2 amazing apartments for 750,000 to 900,000 dhs, in great spots, first the marina star in dubai marina and then a unit in abjar tower..... u dont need a huge budget to buy , just need to watch out for launches


----------



## BenjiDXB

Dubai_Steve said:


> Pessimists may worry about the property market in Dubai but the latest figures show the place is booming with 25,000 people taking up residence every month.
> 
> That works out at 33 people an hour and these figures don't include tourists who have now surpassed the 5 million per year mark. With the current population already topping 1.6 million it is anticipated that by 2010 there will be 2.2 million, with long term estimations of over 4 million residents by 2020.
> 
> There can be little doubt that Dubai is booming. 'To get some sort of visual perspective on the numbers involved and the overriding popularity of Dubai, it is perhaps easier to imagine the equivalent of the crowd of a premiership football match arriving every month,' said Oliver Hickey European Finance Director of Profile Europe (UK) Ltd, real estate and property consultants.
> 
> 'Such an influx of foreign nationals is having the desired affect on Dubai and almost every industry is benefiting as more and more migrants stoke this thriving economy. With Dubai ideally positioned between East and West and vying to become the number one transit hub for world travellers, effectively knocking Singapore of its perch, its long term investment possibilities are superb with few other world destinations coming even close to Dubai,' he added.
> 
> The large developers are also confident. State owned Dubai Properties is set to almost double its real estate investment to $272.2 billion within the next five years. Mohamed Binbrek, CEO of Dubai Properties Group, said the company has 26 property plots still to be developed.


Thanks Steve...what is the source of that text, please ? Thank you...


----------



## iced

docc said:


> 1BR for 2.46M is not a very good investment. Rental yield will not be more than 150-170k per annum and if you remove maintenance costs of another 20k, you are left with 130-150k which is just about 5-6%.
> 
> Ofcourse, if you are thinking about purchasing for a flip, thats a different story.


The smaller one is really expensive. From a buy to let perspective it is not a feasible investment especially as the maintance charge will move much higher due to the strata law. The larger ones may appeal to end users who are cash rich.

Capital appreciation maybe possible but i think that it is risky to purchase for that basis.

With greater regulation and liquidity tightening prices have to slow and fall. These apartments were originally cheap and now they are overpriced. If the government is serious about restricting money suppy and controlling inflation then these have to fall although the impact will take a few months. 

Even if they appreciate by 10-15% there is a real risk of falling prices within a couple of years.

Probably you could purchase cheaper on resale as well.

The stock market tanked and the property market will fall. Like in the UK people wishing to upgrade can afford to do it whereas first time buyers are definitely priced out of this market.

People keep on about the population increasing but there no real data as to what socio economic group they come from etc.

So i see todays prices increasing next year and then falling probably more than morgan stanley estimates.

As greater regulation of the market takes place then this will also restrict prices.

Of course cash rich GCC, Iranians and Russians will still buy which may help price falls in places like JBR and other top developments but the majority will fall in price. The risk is greater than the reward now in my opinion.


----------



## Hanna

*ff-plan property sales' registration compulsory*

Off-plan property sales' registration compulsory 
(GERMAN FERNANDEZ)
Print storyContact newspaper editorSend to a friend
By

Parag Deulgaonkar on Monday, August 25, 2008
Off-plan property sales in Dubai will have to be registered with the emirate's Land Department and developers will no longer be allowed to charge transfer fees on such sales, according to a new law promulgated yesterday.

"Law No 13 of 2008 is aimed at regulating off-plan sales and making registration compulsory with the Land Department," Emad Eldin Farouq, Senior Legal Advisor, Land Department, told Emirates Business in a telephone interview.

Off-plan sales refer to the practice of marketing housing or commercial units based on an architectural plan of the property before the structure is built.

Any sale or other disposition that transfers or restricts title shall be void if not registered in the interim real estate register, the new law stipulates. Any developer who makes a sale or other disposition before the law comes into effect must register it within 60 days, Farouq said.

The law also states that master developers and sub-developers will no longer be allowed to charge transfer fees on off-plan sales. However, they will be allowed to accept administrative charges after approval by the Land Department.

"This is certainly good news as the interest of small investors and buyers will be protected – the Land Department will now be regulating the market," said Dubai Properties Group Chief Executive Officer Mohamed Binbrek.

"We, the master developers, are trying to discourage speculators by asking investors to hang on to properties for a certain duration. The new law will certainly bring more credibility to the real estate market," he said.

Sultan Butti bin Mijrin, Director-General of the Land Department said last month the department "is keen to be at the forefront of efforts to organise real estate procedures and to urge workers in the sector to provide more professionalism and transparency".

Tarek Kandil, Chief Executive of Define Properties, lauded the ban on developers charging transfer fees on off-plan sales.

"These fees could be as much as three to four per cent of a property's value and investors did not benefit," he said, suggesting that the administrative fee be limited to 0.5 to one per cent, "just enough to recover a developer's administrative costs".

Last month, Standard Chartered bank suggested that Dubai introduce a capital gains tax on property sold within a year of purchase, as a means of cooling speculation.

Last week, Dubai issued a new mortgage law that stipulates that mortgage contracts be registered with the Land Department, specifying the size of the loan, the repayment period and the value of the property to which the loan is linked.


Flipping out

Developers have taken Dubai's anti-speculation moves to heart and say they will insist that a minimum of 20 to 30 per cent of a property's value be paid before they transfer it to a second buyer in a resale transaction. They will also screen customer profiles before selling property off plan, they said. "The first transfer and sale of off-plan properties is allowed only after 30 per cent of the total property value has been paid," a spokesperson for Emaar Properties said.


----------



## diveksa

Arrival figures show Dubai is booming with developers looking to the long term
http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/arrival-figures-dubai-booming-developers-200808231513.html


----------



## iced

*Good*

Regulations regarding off plan sales registration is great news. It should cool the market and allow prices to stabilise and allow genuiene buyers to make informed decisions along with due diligence.


----------



## Mavekris

^^That's it.

That's the end of flippers.:lol:


----------



## IISinbadII

Smokeey said:


> Guys I'm thinking of purchasing an office unit in JLT but it only comes with a single parking space. If I rent it out to a company, how would the rest of the staff commute to the office if only one car park space is available, given that the Metro is still over a year away from completion? Are there public car parks that people can leave their cars? Just trying to figure out how people get to and from work everyday in these situations...


Sometimes extra parking spaces are available for rent in the same building. They can rent office from you and parking spaces from others.


----------



## MsWeasel

makerian said:


> I looked into retail stores in Dubai Marina to open a branch for my existing business. If you compare prices to rents in such an upscale and completed project like Dubai Marina, you'll find the yields quite low.
> 
> Few investors would be interested in holding onto retail stores just for renting them out. My basic research indicated that most of the businesses in Dubai Marina own the retails stores themselves.
> 
> The risk for a business with leases a property in the Marina is that the owner may ask you to vacate premises in 2-3 years for any reason whatsoever and then all your effort in growing your business takes a hit.
> 
> Of course this does not include properties such as The Walk and the upcoming mall. Here the developers only lease out the property so wouldn't ask you to leave (only hike your rents . Incidentally the Walk is full and I'm not sure about the Mall.
> 
> IMO, you should buy a retail unit or else get your hands on one which is being leased out by a big developer like Dubai Properties or Emaar. Last I checked, Dubai Properties was accepting applications for retails units to open in for Bay Avenue which will be located at Business Bay. Good luck!


Cayan (developers for Jewels, Residencia del Mar, Silverene, Dorrabay and Infinity) are advertising retail space is available in the Dorrabay retail boardwalk. I don't know if its open to expats but it might be worth contacting them www.cayan.net.


----------



## dubaiprojects

MsWeasel said:


> Cayan (developers for Jewels, Residencia del Mar, Silverene, Dorrabay and Infinity) are advertising retail space is available in the Dorrabay retail boardwalk. I don't know if its open to expats but it might be worth contacting them www.cayan.net.


I did talk to them and the retail space is only available for rent options and please don't ask me about the annual rent, I was about to have an heart attack ;-)
Cheers


----------



## High Times

*DUBAI REAL ESTATE – CAPITAL GROWTH - WHERE IS THE VALUE?*

Looking at things from a capital growth perspective, when considering where to invest one should really be trying to envisage which district offers the best potential for returns. When property is the asset class there are many factors that need to be considered when deciding where on the map to invest, such as;

Length of time to completion (both project and whole development/district)
The services and amenities of the district
Transport links (metro/trams/interchanges to highways)
Shopping options
Where the district sits within the big picture (Dubai as a whole)
Proximity to airport or airports
Status of area
Status of local landmarks

As is consistent with most major cities in the world, there are a variance of prices from district to district. 

There seems to be a massive difference in prices of some districts within Dubai for what seems to be very little substance in terms of basic real estate fundamentals. 

What I am aiming at here is which areas in Dubai are either overvalued, or undervalued? 
If a so called correction is imminent then which areas will suffer the most? 
Will certain areas be immune to a downturn in the market?

The vision of Dubai seems to be heading in the direction of micro cities within a city. Different areas are aiming to offer different facilities, objectives and benefits ranging from business, leisure, beaches, shopping, waterfront living, entertainment and sports complexes.

Inflation and the natural course of events will make prices rise across the board over time, but what areas are potentially undervalued or indeed overvalued and why?

Using the price index of Alineah the numbers look like this for apartments in the major districts right now.










In an attempt to try and put these numbers into some perspective I have done some research into what other comparable major cities/hubs/tourist destinations are priced at in US Dollars psf. I have tried to include a variance of property in the stated cities to try and create fair averages, but as you can imagine this is not easy. I have also used figures for central or waterfront locations which is comparable with what Dubai is trying to achieve. I think I have arrived at a fair representation in order to ascertain where Dubai stands in relation to the cities that it is hoping to emulate or even surpass.










Currently $1,000 = AED 3,673
Currently $1,500 = AED 5,509
Currently $1,900 = AED 6,978

So in relation to what is currently overvalued or indeed undervalued, here are my thoughts.

*I think Burj Dubai area is overvalued. *

Mainly because prices have been elevated based on hype. We all know that Burj Dubai will not be the tallest building on Earth for ever, it may not even be for 5 years. My doubts over the validity of this districts prices are that there is nothing special about Burj Dubai besides the tallest tower in the world that has a limited lifetime on it’s status.

*I think the World as a development is overvalued.*

Aside from offering privacy I don’t think that it offers much else. Certainly not enough to warrant the massive price tag it requests. Palm Jumeirah comes with exclusivity and the added benefits of solid connectivity to the mainland.

*I think Dubailand is potentially undervalued at the moment.*

If Dubailand delivers what has been promised ‘Disney in the desert’ with all the extras then surely buying apartments at AED 1,151 psf is a good bet for 3-5 years as this will be to Dubai what Kissimmee is to Florida.

*I think JBR, JLT and the Marina are all undervalued at the moment.*

Mainly due to ongoing construction in the areas. I feel once the majority of construction is over these districts will become prime locations. If you look at the big picture (infrastructure) it all points here. The Marina will have its own tram system, connecting to the Al Sufouh tram network, which also connects to 2 metro stations. Also there will be 2/3 connections to Sheikh Zayed Road. The new airport, when open will also serve this end of Dubai well. Jumeirah beach, from the Sheraton to Mina Seyahi and all the major hotels and beach clubs will always be the prime beach area in Dubai as far as I’m concerned.

I would be interested to hear what everyone else thinks about where the value is and where prices will stabilise in comparison to the global market.


----------



## jixline

dubaiprojects said:


> I did talk to them and the retail space is only available for rent options and please don't ask me about the annual rent, I was about to have an heart attack ;-)
> Cheers


can i dare and ask you? :goodnight


----------



## legal eagle

*Very interesting*

We were just talking in the office and we all really agree with you regarding the Marina being undervalued and coming out (eventually) as prime.

Burj Dubai area is not as warm on residential as a place and the commercial could suffer Docklands style for a while- you never know.

The Marina is very much a foreigners holiday flat market & is gaining a family feel (very scientific description!), and is still affordable. 

Surrounding it are all the other communities (Meadows/ Greens etc) that support that end of town as THE residential bit of Dubai,

...and we think all the office blocks in JLT can be absorbed by excess JAFZA staff and companies that want to be a little nearer their homes or have no Need to be in Prime Burj area.

Obviously DMCC will have to relax a bit on who is allowed to have an office in JLT first- they have been blocking non-related businesses (i.e. non- commodities).

We also believe the Palm is still undervalued. 

The Palm Jumeirah is Dubai's flag ship, it should be setting the records and eventually will.

The most expensive prices per square foot will have to be on PJ, it would almost be worth the powers that be making sure this was the case, to reflect a buoyant and succesful market. Think about it ^^


----------



## Smokeey

IISinbadII said:


> Sometimes extra parking spaces are available for rent in the same building. They can rent office from you and parking spaces from others.


Thanks for confirming IISinbadII, I thought there had to be a way round it. 

Does anyone have any thoughts/opinions on Fortune Executive Tower or Fortune Tower in JLT? The former seems to be selling for around 1500AED psf (as its only half-built) and the latter around AED1850psf (as its completed), but I'm not sure how good a developer Fortune Group are.

Are there any potentially better office towers? I've looked at Goldcrest Executive but the offices there are a little small - around 1300sqft max. I'm looking for around 1600-2000sqft. Reef Tower has some large offices but its a little too far from the Metro I think. What do you guys think?


----------



## docc

Hi Smokeey,

Fortune group are fairly reliable. Besides, once the tower is completed, there is little to be worried about. My favorite tower is Goldcrest Executive, however i am unable to find a large office space. I've only come across around 800-900 Sft office spaces. I am looking for large office spaces in the range of 4000-5000 Sft. I don't mind if its a single large space or adjacent smaller spaces. Its just really hard to find the latter.

Good luck!


----------



## legal eagle

*I am bored*

What about putting some value on Developers of/with scale.

For office or residential if they (the developers) have several towers, then you the buyer will have more clout.

They are forced to be more transparent and efficient with customers.

A Developer with several towers may even find it worth their while settng up a database to rent your poperty for you etc etc

Single tower owners could be far less efficient and less controllable.

At any rate food for thought as you assess a developer- its one important variable. :cheers:


----------



## Naz UK

Yeah, spelling was the main problem with all that right there. ^^


----------



## bizzybonita

Dh1.2bn deal for Schön 



on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 

Schön Properties has signed a Dh1.171 billion contract with Belhasa Engineering and Contracting Company (BHECC) to handle the construction of zones 3 and 6 of the mixed-use Dubai Lagoon Development. 

The project is slated at Dh3bn. Site work is scheduled to begin in October 2008, with a projected completion date between the end of 2010 and beginning of 2011. BECC's remit will include all civil, architectural, construction and MEP works as well as air conditioning and service facilities, for a total of 17 buildings.

Asher H Schön, Vice President of Schön Properties said, "We have been in negotiations with a number of leading contractors for these next zones, but Belhasa Contracting and Engineering Company really stood out with a very impressive track record and highly professional attitude towards our requirements. 

"We are looking forward to moving ahead on the project and working closely with BHECC."

BHECC General Manager, AG Abdul Azeem said, "The Dubai Lagoon is a very interesting project and one that we feel more than equipped to handle with our sturdy background in large-scale development on many varied projects. 

"Building the skyline of new Dubai and delivering fantastic end-products to customers are two key drivers in our decision to sign with Schön Properties."

BHECC is one of Dubai's larger construction companies. The announcement follows recent news that Powerline Gulf has been maintained on the first two zones only, with site work for these zones currently mobilising to resume construction.

Via business24-7.ae


----------



## IISinbadII

Smokeey said:


> Thanks for confirming IISinbadII, I thought there had to be a way round it.
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts/opinions on Fortune Executive Tower or Fortune Tower in JLT? The former seems to be selling for around 1500AED psf (as its only half-built) and the latter around AED1850psf (as its completed), but I'm not sure how good a developer Fortune Group are.


I like Fortune Tower in JLT because of its proximity to the Metro station. View of the marina and sea looks good from higher floors (22 and up). AED 1850 psf aint that bad, if you could get the view. 

BTW, you should find out how many of the offices are rented out or being furnished. This would give you some idea about the worth. I think the rents were somewhere b/w AED 250-275 psft a few months back. You can do the math.


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> *I think Burj Dubai area is overvalued. *
> 
> Mainly because prices have been elevated based on hype. We all know that Burj Dubai will not be the tallest building on Earth for ever, it may not even be for 5 years. My doubts over the validity of this districts prices are that there is nothing special about Burj Dubai besides the tallest tower in the world that has a limited lifetime on it’s status.


I disagree. Its not hype, *BURJ is THE REAL THING!*

First if you look carefully, you could still pick completed units under AED 4000 psft in Burj Area. Second, it is a BIG thing. Tallest tower, one of the largest Mall, Aquarium, Ice Skating, 3 hotels, several sooks, tram, Metro station, Boulevard with all the festivities.....list goes on. I mean Burj is IT. It is about to become the heart of Dubai and could remain so for many decades to come.

Just wait for the Mall opening. And if after that you still have doubts, wait till the Burj completes...... It will be an event of global magnitude.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Agree but is it worth paying at least double to live there compared to the the marina where the Mall will be only a short metro ride away and there are multiple other benefits of the marina, beach clubs and tram connection to be had? I think this is HighTimes's point, the marina is still undervalued.


----------



## Smokeey

docc said:


> Hi Smokeey,
> 
> Fortune group are fairly reliable. Besides, once the tower is completed, there is little to be worried about. My favorite tower is Goldcrest Executive, however i am unable to find a large office space. I've only come across around 800-900 Sft office spaces. I am looking for large office spaces in the range of 4000-5000 Sft. I don't mind if its a single large space or adjacent smaller spaces. Its just really hard to find the latter.
> 
> Good luck!


I'm a little surprised too at the lack of large office spaces around. Take Business Bay for example - the majority of towers there have mainly units between 800-1250sqft in size so obviously the developers are envisaging lots of small companies will be moving in (upto 10 users) rather than large companies. The only areas I know of where you can get really big spaces are in Silicon Oasis or Tecom - have you tried there?



IISinbadII said:


> I like Fortune Tower in JLT because of its proximity to the Metro station. View of the marina and sea looks good from higher floors (22 and up). AED 1850 psf aint that bad, if you could get the view.
> 
> BTW, you should find out how many of the offices are rented out or being furnished. This would give you some idea about the worth. I think the rents were somewhere b/w AED 250-275 psft a few months back. You can do the math.


Good idea - I'll find out how many units are currently occupied and also what the current maintenance fees are as I dont want a unit with significant running costs (although that may be inevitable going forward). 

Also with offices, is it advisable to get a property management company to look after it (find tenants, draw up the contracts etc)? I assume that there are lots of legal implications and requirements to owning commercial space so its not something we can just rent out ourselves willy nilly? What sort of fees do these management companies charge?


----------



## BenjiDXB

High Times said:


> Looking at things from a capital growth perspective, when considering where to invest one should really be trying to envisage which district offers the best potential for returns. When property is the asset class there are many factors that need to be considered when deciding where on the map to invest, such as;
> 
> Length of time to completion (both project and whole development/district)
> The services and amenities of the district
> Transport links (metro/trams/interchanges to highways)
> Shopping options
> Where the district sits within the big picture (Dubai as a whole)
> Proximity to airport or airports
> Status of area
> Status of local landmarks
> 
> As is consistent with most major cities in the world, there are a variance of prices from district to district.
> 
> There seems to be a massive difference in prices of some districts within Dubai for what seems to be very little substance in terms of basic real estate fundamentals.
> 
> What I am aiming at here is which areas in Dubai are either overvalued, or undervalued?
> If a so called correction is imminent then which areas will suffer the most?
> Will certain areas be immune to a downturn in the market?
> 
> The vision of Dubai seems to be heading in the direction of micro cities within a city. Different areas are aiming to offer different facilities, objectives and benefits ranging from business, leisure, beaches, shopping, waterfront living, entertainment and sports complexes.
> 
> Inflation and the natural course of events will make prices rise across the board over time, but what areas are potentially undervalued or indeed overvalued and why?
> 
> Using the price index of Alineah the numbers look like this for apartments in the major districts right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In an attempt to try and put these numbers into some perspective I have done some research into what other comparable major cities/hubs/tourist destinations are priced at in US Dollars psf. I have tried to include a variance of property in the stated cities to try and create fair averages, but as you can imagine this is not easy. I have also used figures for central or waterfront locations which is comparable with what Dubai is trying to achieve. I think I have arrived at a fair representation in order to ascertain where Dubai stands in relation to the cities that it is hoping to emulate or even surpass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Currently $1,000 = AED 3,673
> Currently $1,500 = AED 5,509
> Currently $1,900 = AED 6,978
> 
> So in relation to what is currently overvalued or indeed undervalued, here are my thoughts.
> 
> *I think Burj Dubai area is overvalued. *
> 
> Mainly because prices have been elevated based on hype. We all know that Burj Dubai will not be the tallest building on Earth for ever, it may not even be for 5 years. My doubts over the validity of this districts prices are that there is nothing special about Burj Dubai besides the tallest tower in the world that has a limited lifetime on it’s status.
> 
> *I think the World as a development is overvalued.*
> 
> Aside from offering privacy I don’t think that it offers much else. Certainly not enough to warrant the massive price tag it requests. Palm Jumeirah comes with exclusivity and the added benefits of solid connectivity to the mainland.
> 
> *I think Dubailand is potentially undervalued at the moment.*
> 
> If Dubailand delivers what has been promised ‘Disney in the desert’ with all the extras then surely buying apartments at AED 1,151 psf is a good bet for 3-5 years as this will be to Dubai what Kissimmee is to Florida.
> 
> *I think JBR, JLT and the Marina are all undervalued at the moment.*
> 
> Mainly due to ongoing construction in the areas. I feel once the majority of construction is over these districts will become prime locations. If you look at the big picture (infrastructure) it all points here. The Marina will have its own tram system, connecting to the Al Sufouh tram network, which also connects to 2 metro stations. Also there will be 2/3 connections to Sheikh Zayed Road. The new airport, when open will also serve this end of Dubai well. Jumeirah beach, from the Sheraton to Mina Seyahi and all the major hotels and beach clubs will always be the prime beach area in Dubai as far as I’m concerned.
> 
> I would be interested to hear what everyone else thinks about where the value is and where prices will stabilise in comparison to the global market.




Thanks a lot for taking the time to compare Dubai prices with other cities. One question would be: Is Dubai already comparable to cities like London, New York and Paris ? In my humble opinion the most comparable cities are Hong Kong and Singapore. 

I agree that the Marina/JBR and JLT still have good potential and once both areas become more attractive in about 2 to 3 years, more and more people will want to live there. Besides the Palm Jum., these two communities are the only freehold ones, that have more or less easy and fast access to the beach. 

JBR is hated by many, but then again: there is no other boulevard by the beach in Dubai, that has restaurants, coffeeshops and shops to offer, and places to sit in the open by the sea. Weird, isnt it ? Most of the Jumeirah Beach from Dubai Marine Resort to Jum. Beach Hotel does not have any touristic infrastructure (like showers, restaurants) at all, with some rare exceptions.

Therefore I think that, if the predicted downturn was going to hit in 2010 or 11, due to oversupply of luxury apartments, it might become a bit of a softer landing in these two areas, due to the increased attractiveness of the Marina and JLT (most construction finished, infrastructure in place etc.)

Marina and JLT will also be centrally located between the old Dubai and Palm Jebel Ali/Waterfront, as well as between the two airports (more or less).

Another advantage of the Marina and JLT: Abu Dhabi will not offer enough housing until 2011 or so, so many people prefer to rent in the Marina and commute to work in Abu Dhabi. The commute is easier and faster, than between Sharjah and Dubai. Abu Dhabi will not have the good and relatively affordable housing of the Marina and JLT to offer for some time, while AD is growing like hell.

Should Nakheel built the highest tower in the world (aka as The Burj) between Discovery Gardens and Ibn Batuta Mall, this would also upgrade the area. Metro and trams will also help to make the Marina and JLT more liveable. Vicinity to Palm Jumeirah, Jebel Ali FZ and the Media Cities is also good.

When it comes to a price correction, I would be more worried about places like Sports City, Motor City, all of Dubailand (seems to be all residential and not so much Disney), Rimram etc. Everything that is not close to SZR ...


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Excellent analysis HH

I agree that the Marina is undervalued. I dont think you are right with the Burj area that it is overvalued - but I definitely think that the Marina is better than the Burj Area investmentwise. But I think a house is a better investment than apartments in general. I am one of the only ones thinking residental is better than commercial right now.

Everyone I hear coming back from the Marina area says its going to be so great when it is finished.


----------



## AltinD

BSA said:


> Re: Defamatory Statements against Dynasty Zarooni
> 
> 
> Under instructions from our client, M/s Dynasty Zarooni, we would like to inform everyone involved in maligning of our client that all the allegations / statement leveled against it and its management are baseless, unfounded and frivolous. Each of these statements is denied vehemently. Our client is in the business of property development and, in fact, has provided such services to numerous clients of international repute and fame based around the globe. Our client is duly registered with all the concerned regulatory departments in the UAE and there are no complaints pending against it. There is an apparent ulterior motive in these messages being posted on the web. We, accordingly, refute all the statements so posted and inform the person(s) responsible to refrain from this conduct. This statement on behalf of our clients is without prejudice to the rights our client has against such false and defamatory statements.
> 
> We, hence, direct that these statements be removed immediately and forthwith failing which our client will be constrained to take legal action, civil and criminal, under the relevant provisions of the law in the courts of competent jurisdiction. We also reserve the right to initiate appropriate legal action against, inter alia, the web site hosts, administrators, forum moderators, web masters, etc.


Please leave the legal threats out of this, this website and the content posted here does not fall under the jurisdiction of the country you're located in. 

If there is something you or your client doesn't like, then contact us the moderators of the forum, pointing out exactly the posts you object too, and if found inappropriate, we will remove them.

Thank you.


----------



## docc

Smokeey,

I was told rent in JLT is around 220/Sft. However, in the long rum 170-200/Sft seems to be a more sustainable figure.

I did find large office spaces in Tecom, however, they are not on the metro line. The only one that really caught my eye was The Onyx. Downside is that it will not be ready till 2010. I need something right now so that i can lease it out right away. I'm still working on it and am even considering DIFC and BBay. Prices in DIFC are around 4000/Sft while BBay is all over the place.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Agree but is it worth paying at least double to live there compared to the the marina where the Mall will be only a short metro ride away and there are multiple other benefits of the marina, beach clubs and tram connection to be had? I think this is HighTimes's point, the marina is still undervalued.


Burj area is worth the price for top executives who want to live very near their offices on SZR towers. It is very convenient for them to be at 10 min drive from work, 10 min walk to the mall and have a prestigious address as well.


----------



## Hanna

apradhan said:


> Have a look at the following guy. He seems to be good and knows his stuff. Good Luck.
> 
> Derek Grimley
> Exclusive Property Management Services
> PO Box 333589
> Dubai UAE
> 
> Office Telephone : 00 971 4 3416570
> Office Fax : 00 971 4 3417090
> Mobile :00 971 50 4597167
> E-mail : [email protected]
> www.exclusiveuae.com




Hi apradhan


Thanks for your info. :cheers:


----------



## iced

*good discussion*



Morten_Denmark said:


> Excellent analysis HH
> 
> I agree that the Marina is undervalued. I dont think you are right with the Burj area that it is overvalued - but I definitely think that the Marina is better than the Burj Area investmentwise. But I think a house is a better investment than apartments in general. I am one of the only ones thinking residental is better than commercial right now.
> 
> Everyone I hear coming back from the Marina area says its going to be so great when it is finished.


Yes good analysis HH. I think that the Marina/JLT are slightly overvalued and the Burjarea is overvalued. In a downtown both will fall due to the speculative buying. Too much development with not enough data confirming if the area is oversupplied.

Interestingly IC comes in the cheapest place to live at a basic studio at around 450k AED which is well over $120k which is so overvalued.

Thus imho all of Dubai is way overvalued


----------



## legal eagle

*Hmmm*

xx


----------



## legal eagle

*quick exercise*

xx


----------



## Essa

emaar shares for the win


----------



## iced

legal eagle said:


> Iced try looking at Dubai in a larger context.
> 
> 
> The rest of the Middle East is light years behind. Its not just money that is driving Dubai into becoming the Capital of the Middle East.
> 
> Other players would want that title, and are far richer then Dubai. e.g. Saudi.
> 
> Dubai can NOT be replicated by any other Gulf state- that really is our opinion.
> 
> They can of course try, and are doing so, but its a 'mentality of the people thing' not just cash thats driving this.
> 
> Qatar could build JLT and Dubai Marina tomorrow, but it will never succeed as a challenger- Dubai is generations ahead in mentality and understanding of the wider world.
> 
> Moreover Dubai's own immediate neighbours are in reality benefitting from its over spill rather then their own intitiative.
> 
> If you look at Dubai as the central point of the Middle East then you start to see that topping out of prices could be dramatically higher then they are currently.
> 
> Even if there are cycles that include a downturn or stagnation.


The real problem is transparency and data. Also if the state is really serious about trying to curb speculation. If its is then prices will fall rapidly but if it is not then prices will continue upwards for a while but then will fall as the property cycle goes to the next stage.

Will also continue to rise if russian iranian from strange sources continue to poor in. 

Dubai does also face competition from neighbouring emirates.

I think that as the recent unfortunate fire incident shows that there is a huge amount of subletting and if this was properly tackled then prices will fall quickly as lots of people could not afford to live in dubai due to high rents


----------



## MsWeasel

dubaiprojects said:


> I did talk to them and the retail space is only available for rent options and please don't ask me about the annual rent, I was about to have an heart attack ;-)
> Cheers


Oh dear, I guess it will stay empty then


----------



## bizzybonita

Capital gains tax unlikely, say analysts 



It is extremely unlikely that the Dubai Government will start imposing a capital gains tax on property dealing, real estate analysts said. 

They said the property market was still in its "infancy" and such a step by authorities would adversely affect majority of the investors including speculators.

In July, a Standard Chartered Bank report suggested real estate speculators need to be rooted out of Dubai's housing market by introducing a 50 per cent capital gains tax on properties sold within a period of 12 months from their date of purchase as the best way to discourage short-term flippers.

The capital gains tax is charged on the profit accrued from the sale of a non-inventory asset purchased at a lower price, such as stocks, bonds, precious metals and property. Not all countries implement a capital gains tax and most have different rates of taxation for individuals and corporations.

Emirates Business sent out a questionnaire to two real estate analysts, three developers and two international buyers to understand their view on how the market would react if such a tax were introduced. Two of the three developers felt introducing a capital gains tax in Dubai would be against the principle of open markets followed in the UAE. 

Union Properties' Chief Financial Officer Zaid Ghoul felt if a capital gains tax is imposed in a context that is geared towards cutting speculative activity and controlling the overall market, and is implemented in a way that will not make the Dubai market a less attractive one, then it may succeed in achieving its purpose.

"I have heard that there is a possibility of a tax in specific free zones. In the end I don't think a capital gains tax will be implemented, since it is difficult to attract investment in the sector while increasing taxes," said Robert Mckinnon, Managing Director, Equity Research for Al Mal Capital.

Matthew Hammond, Director, Head of Agency Mena for Jones Lang LaSalle Mena, said: "Due to demand far outweighing supply, we believe that any tax levied on an increase in the value of the asset will be borne by the purchaser which would further increase the inflation effect currently seen in all asset classes of property." 

Assem Soliman, Chief Executive, El Tadamon El Arabi Stock Brokerage Company, Egypt, said: "If a capital gains tax was introduced in Dubai he would then switch from being a investor to being a visitor. I will then consider investing in Qatar."


Experts analyse consequences

Emirates Business talks to Matthew Hammond, Director and Head of Agency at Jones Lang LaSalle Mena, and Robert Mckinnon, Managing Director of Equity Research at Al Mal Capital.

Do you believe the government will introduce such a law? Do you have other solutions for Dubai's realty to contain speculation and create sustained property growth?

Mckinnon: I have heard there is a possibility of a tax in specific free zones. In the end I don't think a capital gains tax will be implemented, since it is difficult to attract investment while increasing taxes. The more likely solution to calm the speculative segment of the market would be restrictions on time to re-sell the property or to require a minimum down payment of about 20 per cent for off-plan payment schedules.

Hammond: It is unlikely that the government will set a tax on capital transactions considering the infancy of the realty market in Dubai. If such a law came into affect, it would affect up to 70 per cent of the market, which still consists of speculative investors and this could cause a serious imbalance in demand. Many of the speculative investors are from overseas and therefore relatively transient in terms of where they place their money. If a tax is put on capital gains it will make Dubai uncompetitive to alternative tax-free states. Transparency of information in terms of a greater regulation of the agency market and a limit on the amount of disposal agents per property can be a solution to consider curbing speculation in the market.

How will property prices be affected if the Dubai Government does introduce such a tax? When you say negative, by how much do you predict prices to drop? 

Mckinnon: I can't determine the size of any impact to price from a capital gains tax. However, anything that would negatively impact investor returns would negatively impact demand. The point is to formulate a policy that will encourage end user demand, rather than speculative demand.

Hammond: Due to demand far outweighing supply, we believe any tax levied on an increase in the value of the asset will be borne by the purchaser, which would further increase the inflation effect currently being seen in all asset classes of property. As the market evolves and demand and supply become more balanced, the tax will be absorbed and is likely to be shared equally between buyer and seller.

How will buyer sentiment be affected if such a law came into affect?

Mckinnon: No one likes taxes, so I would assume buyer sentiment would decline. Also the existing tax regime – or lack of taxes – in the UAE is a major attraction for people and businesses to the country. A capital gains tax could be interpreted as a change in philosophy for the government, leading some foreign investors/businesses to question the government's commitment to its zero tax regime.

Hammond: If developers take a greater portion of profit out of the development, this is likely to dampen the activity in the secondary market as investors continue to thrive heavily in the realty sector. Certain developers in Abu Dhabi seem to have learnt from Dubai developers and the secondary market. If you compare the initial sales prices of the Palm Jumeirah at around Dh500 per square foot and Raha Beach at Dh2,200 per square foot, it would seem that the developer is trying to take the inflationary benefit often seen on the secondary market.


Developer's take

Emirates Business talks to Zaid Ghoul, CFO of Union Properties; Mehdi Amjad, Chief Executive of Omniyat Properties; and Mohammed Ali, General Manager of ETA Star Properties.

Do you foresee any chances of capital gains tax being imposed in Dubai?

Ghoul: If a capital gains tax is implemented in a context that is geared towards cutting speculative activity and controlling the overall market, and is implemented in a way that will not make the Dubai market a less attractive one, then it may succeed.

Amjad: I think it is against the open market principle of the UAE. There are sophisticated investors in the market, committing their capital for a more long-term interest, and I don't think we should do anything to jeopardise that.

Ali: Imposing a capital gains tax is not the only step to curb speculators in the market.

Do you think this will be a good step in curtailing speculative activities in the market?

Ghoul: We have a lot of faith in the Dubai market. If the government introduces this tax while keeping the overall environment tax-free, this maybe a good idea to help control speculators in Dubai.

Amjad: Generally, you will see a more speculative activity in small projects. But there are justifications to it, like the land prices, which have been escalating. A developer can curtail speculation if he wants to. Although realty prices are growing, we at Omniyat are asking for a more sustainable growth in our projects.

Ali: Investors from all over the world are coming to this market because they like the tax-free property environment. If they impose a tax then this market will no more be attractive.


Buyers speak

Emirates Business talks to Assem Soliman, Chief Executive at El Tadamon El Arabi Stock Brokerage Company, Egypt, and Stephan Schlink, General Manager of HAG Software Solutions, Germany.

What is your total investment in the Dubai realty market? When did you first buy your property here and how many projects have you invested in?

Soliman: I have invested Dh18.4m into Dubai's property market. I bought my first property in July 2005 and have so far bought two residential apartments, two office properties and invested in five land plots.

Schlink: I have invested Dh7m in the UAE. I own three properties in Dubai and one in Ras Al Khaimah. I bought my first property in 2005.

How much have each of your properties appreciated since the time you bought them?

Soliman: My two residential properties have appreciated by 70 per cent but my capital gain so far is higher. While the property is appreciating, my outflow towards it as an investment is not as high, so my capital gain on the property is much higher than 70 per cent. The office properties have appreciated 30 per cent in six months. I bought the office units six months back for Dh1,450 a square foot and they are now going for Dh1,900 a square foot. The land plots have appreciated by 50 per cent in the last year.

Schlink: My three properties in Dubai have appreciated about 60 to 200 per cent in the last two years, while the property in Ras Al Khaimah has appreciated by 80 per cent. 

If Dubai did introduce a tax on property gains, would you still invest as much here or would you consider buying in other markets?

Soliman: If a capital gains tax was introduced I would switch from being an investor to being a visitor. I will then consider investing in Qatar.

Schlink: I may keep only one property for my own use and will sell the rest and invest in other markets.

In the current gloabl market situation besides the UAE, where else do you own properties. What are the other attractive markets?

Soliman: I own properties in Paris, London, Qatar, Cairo and Hurgadah on Egypt's north coast. Also, Eastern Europe looks attractive to me.

Schlink: I own properties in Germany, Egypt's Red Sea coast, Qatar and Morocco.


----------



## Hanna

*Billion Dirham conman*

Billion Dirham conman 7 days report today

Last Updated : Thursday 28 Aug, 2008 -



Investors in a sham finance scheme run from Dubai may have lost close to dhs1 billion with many cheated out of their life savings.Prosecutors revealed that 3,458 people have made official complaints against Emirati businessman Abid Al Boom, with the fraud so far worth dhs847,266,150. The staggering sum is expected to rise as more duped investors come forward.Al Boom, the owner of Abid Al Boom Management and Development Properties, was arrested last month and is being held in custody, along with his brother and four others, while investigations and attempts to recover the money continue. All have been charged with fraud and theft.The Attorney General has already ordered the freezing of all Al Boom’s assets and stopped shares being traded in his company. But so far only 15 per cent of the money deposited by innocent investors can be accounted for.A committee that investigated the company and its staff found it had collaborated with a number of foreigners to defraud investors and that its portfolio was bogus.Prosecutor Yusif Fuladh said that despite promises by the businessman that he would channel funds from overseas into the UAE to reimburse cheated investors, nothing has happened so far.“People are ringing my office everyday asking for their money. Many of them are from low-income families and this has caused them many problems,” he told a news conference yesterday. “We have asked for help from a team of financial experts as we need to know where the money has now gone.”After his arrest Al Boom, whose company marketed itself as a major real estate development firm in Dubai and Sharjah, claimed: “I didn’t commit any crimes or violate any laws.”


:cheers:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Clon him - and then torture both 




Hanna said:


> Billion Dirham conman 7 days report today
> 
> Last Updated : Thursday 28 Aug, 2008 -
> 
> 
> 
> Investors in a sham finance scheme run from Dubai may have lost close to dhs1 billion with many cheated out of their life savings.Prosecutors revealed that 3,458 people have made official complaints against Emirati businessman Abid Al Boom, with the fraud so far worth dhs847,266,150. The staggering sum is expected to rise as moreoth o duped investors come forward.Al Boom, the owner of Abid Al Boom Management and Development Properties, was arrested last month and is being held in custody, along with his brother and four others, while investigations and attempts to recover the money continue. All have been charged with fraud and theft.The Attorney General has already ordered the freezing of all Al Boom’s assets and stopped shares being traded in his company. But so far only 15 per cent of the money deposited by innocent investors can be accounted for.A committee that investigated the company and its staff found it had collaborated with a number of foreigners to defraud investors and that its portfolio was bogus.Prosecutor Yusif Fuladh said that despite promises by the businessman that he would channel funds from overseas into the UAE to reimburse cheated investors, nothing has happened so far.“People are ringing my office everyday asking for their money. Many of them are from low-income families and this has caused them many problems,” he told a news conference yesterday. “We have asked for help from a team of financial experts as we need to know where the money has now gone.”After his arrest Al Boom, whose company marketed itself as a major real estate development firm in Dubai and Sharjah, claimed: “I didn’t commit any crimes or violate any laws.”
> 
> 
> :cheers:


----------



## carl90

HI GUYS WANT TO PICK YOUR BRAINS (1)WHAT DO I NEED TO OPEN A BANK ACCOUNT (2)A GOOD RENTING AGENT (3)WHAT IS THE GOING RATE FOR HOLIDAY LETS, MY APARTMENT IS AMARDA TOWERS 1 BED .THANKS GUYS


----------



## diveksa

*24/7*

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/8/Pages/08302008_72ab00f3d7c04153a9f5ba1a87242b52.aspx

New laws will strengthen Dubai real estate industry 

By 

Peter Cooper on Saturday, August 30, 2008 

The summer months have seen three major innovations which mark a further maturing of the Dubai real estate boom. There has been a comprehensive new mortgage law, a tightening up and regulation of off-plan sales and clarification about the link between property ownership and residency visas. 

Is this good or bad news for existing owners of property in Dubai? Is it positive or negative for house prices? Do off-plan buyers have anything to worry about? Does it make buying off plan not such a good idea in future? This article will attempt to answer these questions. 

The first general point to make is that the Dubai authorities are acting at the right time. The property boom has grown and grown since 2002 and is now in need of regulation to prevent it surging out-of-control. A proper mortgage law is particularly timely as many developments are coming up for completion, and the provision of competitive home finance is essential. Dubai needed to clarify the rights and obligations of parties in mortgage contracts, and by reducing market risk the main impact should be to lower the cost of mortgages.

These have been high by the standards of comparable dollar-linked economies around the world. And bringing the cost of home ownership down should underpin the long- term stability of the local residential property market, and it has to be said higher house prices usually go with cheaper mortgages.

Tightening up on off plan sales is more of a double-edged sword. In limiting the flow of property to the market this will ultimately reduce supply and maintain real estate values. But its impact on those who have bought under the old rules and now find that they cannot sell until 30 per cent has been paid on a unit is mixed.

For those who have been buying for their own occupation, it will make little or no difference, and if this keeps supply lower then their property may well gain in value as a consequence over time. But for anybody who has been looking to flip property after a 10 per cent deposit, and has been doing so with borrowed money then this could be the end of the road. 

Developers who correctly read the writing on the wall when the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) was created just over a year ago will probably have scaled back their project launches and will be concentrating on getting units completed in the face of surging construction costs. There have indeed been far fewer new launches since Rera came into existence. On the other hand, the new approach to off-plan sales – with a minimum amount to be paid before resale and compulsory registration of sales with the Dubai Land Department – means that anybody buying in the future knows that they are being provided with some level of security. It is very much in the buyer's interest not to be given their money back three years hence, and not to get a property, as has been happening on a few Dubai projects recently.

Also the bizarre situation where low deposit levels have meant that off-plan sales command higher prices than in the secondary market will no longer apply. This encourages rash speculation. And while early buyers could do very well in the longer term things are bound to turn out badly as there will probably not be enough end-users to allow a profitable exit for everyone.

With its new laws and regulations Dubai is trying to move from being a speculator's paradise to being a mature property market without the usual sharp real estate crash in between. It could well be that at this stage in its development the Dubai property market is small enough and sufficient under government control to allow this smooth progress. It is also a time of high liquidity and great prosperity in the city.

There is, after all a good historical precedent to consider and not very long ago either. In the late 90s this correspondent can recall worries in the local banking community that Dubai was about to undergo a nasty real estate correction. At that time the Emirates Towers, one of them the tallest building in the Middle East, and the Burj Al Arab, the world's tallest freestanding hotel, were under construction, and oil prices dropped below $10 in 1999.

The stock market crashed and in particular the shares of Emaar Properties suffered a dramatic fall from a split-adjusted Dh160 down to Dh10. However, local real estate rentals hardly budged, and within a couple of years any voids were filled. Landlords, and the government, kept space vacant rather than slash rents and the whole market rolled over into a much bigger boom, the one we have today.

The latest storm in a teacup is over the link between visas and Dubai property ownership. Anybody investigating this in the past would have realised that the link between residency and ownership is always going to be tenuous unless you are a citizen of a country. No developer is ever truly going to be in the position of a country to guarantee residency, and if some have done so this is a matter of false advertising claims rather than any change to the status quo.

That said very few buyers of Dubai property are going to find it hard to obtain residency, although it might be an inconvenience and additional expense to have to do this. Besides most people who live in Dubai will also want to work in Dubai, even just as passive investment managers, and will require a labour card. As far as I know Dubai has attracted very few retirees and there will still be nothing to stop them applying for residency. It has never really been guaranteed by developers as residency is not within their power to bestow. 

All the evidence suggests that Dubai house prices will spike upwards again this autumn. The supply of completed property remains insufficient to meet the demand of the continued influx of new residents, and there will be many of them. Dubai is a boom town with huge inward investment in infrastructure and opportunities for employment abound. Trade grew by 50 per cent in the first half of the year, and GDP growth is up with the highest levels in the world. 

It is like Hong Kong was in Asia in the early 1990s, and suffering the same curse of rising rental and property prices as far as residents are concerned. Dubai house prices have yet to increase to anything like the peaks achieved in Hong Kong, and perhaps the upcoming supply of new property will prevent this level of super valuation.

However, even if oil prices collapsed tomorrow the 1999 precedent suggests Dubai would handle a downturn with skill, in the same way the authorities are now managing the boom, purging its excesses in off-plan and creating a world-class real estate market that can sustain and maintain high valuation levels. Yet this remains a most unlikely scenario. 

Goldman Sachs has oil prices high for another two years at least with a spike to $200 and $149 this autumn. The bank's partners have just established their own $300 million fund to invest in the Middle East so they are confident enough to back their words. In this environment the only way for Dubai house prices is up, and that will allow the off-plan market to be sorted out without a major collapse of confidence. But for residents who would like to buy in a slump that will remain a distant dream and high rentals will be the price to pay for working in a boom city.


----------



## Imre

Morten_Denmark said:


> So Select are selling the studios in West Avenue for DH1.77 mill - starting prices and all studios are sold out - http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10240977.html!!! Also 2beds for rent in the marina are suddenly renting out for 220 k AED. In BB I have now heard about asking prices of 7000 psf (omyinat). I guess it will not be 2008/2009 we see any price correction :cheers:
> 
> Added: I am sure I am wrong because I see now that actual floor size is 326 sqr feet plus with an 88 sqr feet balcony - this rounds up to 4275 psf.
> 
> I can see the point in going from 2 k psf to 4 k psf - everything else is just a waste of time
> 
> Later: I think it is a typo as The Select homepage state that the 1.77 mill (258 k pounds ) is the cost of a 1-bed which reduces the psf to approx 2400 psf - this is more realistic.



studio for 1.77 m here?? then I did a good deal today, 2 m for a studio in the Burj Dubai area seems cheap..

18 Burj Dubai Boulevard sounds better than West Avenue


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

Imre said:


> studio for 1.77 m here?? then I did a good deal today, 2 m for a studio in the Burj Dubai area seems cheap..
> 
> 18 Burj Dubai Boulevard sounds better than West Avenue


IMRE... Congrats on that new purchase! Quick question, why did you choose to purchase at the launch instead of the buying in the secondary market... There are some studios in Burj Downtown that go for less than 2MIL and have sooner completion dates... 

This has always puzzled me... I own a 1-bd in Old Town and currently live there... Purchased in the secondary market... at a whole less psf... 

Are they "launch" prices indicative of the price that Emaar expects the property to be valued at handover? Even my property in Old Town is not even valued close to the 5000 psf... 

Please let me know your thoughts... Thanks in advance for your help!

BTW, your pictures are great!


----------



## Imre

I have never bought in the secondary market, just at the launch or from the developers.

Main point is the payment plan ,at the moment I have only 5 % , next payment in October 10 %, I will pay that also but the next one is just in May 2009. I have still time to find out what I want to do with this,resale or keep, depends on the market. 

I have no idea about the price on handover , nobody knows.


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## dubaiprojects

Dear All, I would like to get your opinion about the Residency Law that has now been put on hold or perhaps canceled. For so many years people who bought properties in dubai thought that they will most likely get residency permit when they buy a freehold property. People who got such visas were actually granted investor's visa. 

There was a statement made by some minister that there is no link between the two. I was in dubai last week and one of the major developer agent told me that such visa applications are not being accepted at this stage, no one knows the next set of steps that dubai gov will take. 

In view of the above, how much damaging this can be for the real estate market for individual buyers, will they now think about selling or they will resort to renting them for higher yields. 

One could argue that even then such visa put up a restriction that you can't work on it, yes but thats a different case, getting a residency visa with a freehold is something of comfort level for many, even though they would see themselves working in dubai on a work visa.

Lastly some of the buyers came from countries which are not entitled to get an entry visit visa upon arrival, so how could the authorities justify scrapping the rule when there is a person who invested his lifetime savings above million and yet he is not able to enter the country. 

Cheers


----------



## dubai_pearl

*Dubai property prices expected to peak in 2009*

Dubai property prices expected to peak in 2009, analysts say

Article from Propertywire 
http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/dubai-property-prices-peak-2009-200808301551.html
Saturday, 30 August 2008
Dubai prices to peak by 2009

Soaring housing prices in Dubai are likely to peak in 2009 before falling at least 15% as the Gulf emirate takes measures to weed out short-term speculators, according to forecasts from a group of banks, investment firms and research institutions.

Residential property prices in Dubai are likely to jump 35% this year, according to the median of forecasts from the 10 organisations.

Price growth will probably slow to 8.5% next year, when five of the nine analysts expect prices to hit a peak after double-digit increases in each year since Dubai opened its property market to foreign investment in 2002.

'After four years of tremendous price growth the market needs a breather,' said Robert McKinnon, managing director of equity research at Al Mal Capital. 'Dubai has taken some measures to tackle speculation which will have some impact on the market,' he added.

Six of the analysts say prices could fall at least 15% from peak to trough, including one expecting a drop of more than 30%. Two foresee no correction in prices at all and two anticipate declines of 10%.

Overall the group forecast a 32.5% chance of a correction in Dubai. Half said the chance of a correction exceeded 50%.

'When the correction happens, a lot of existing potential buyers will start entering the market on more attractive prices and thus balancing the market going forward,' said Ahmed Badr, an equity research analyst at Credit Suisse in Dubai.

Speculators in search of quick gains have been a main driving force behind the 79% surge in Dubai housing prices since the start of 2007, according to investment bank Morgan Stanley.

Expatriates from countries facing political instability, such as Pakistan, Lebanon and Iran, for instance, have long been lured to Dubai by its safe-haven status. 'There is enough demand to take the place of speculation, but the demand is at a different price level,' McKinnon said.

Even as speculators exit the market, analysts said a sharp fall in prices was unlikely since the state exerts extensive control over supply. Most said residential prices in Dubai were slightly overvalued.

'At the worst we could see a soft landing, but a sharp correction in the Dubai market is far-fetched,' said Bikash Rout, senior financial analyst at Global Investment House. Dubai needs about 30,000 to 35,000 new units each year to meet demand as the population grows 7 percent per year, he added.


----------



## dubai_pearl

*Housing shortage 'will support Dubai market'*

Article from Ready2invest 
http://www.ready2invest.co.uk/news-and-publications/news-articles/housing-shortage-will-support-dubai-market-300808.aspx

The lack of housing in Dubai is likely to support the property market in the emirate for some time to come.

At least this is the opinion of an analyst at HSBC, who told the Financial Times that the shortage of homes coupled with a rising population meant that the property market should be sustained.

Majed Azzam commented: "We don't see a danger any time soon."

"[Dubai's] population is growing very fast and the developers are not delivering on time," he added.

Mr Azzam called the market in the city "very tight" and said that the number of houses that are occupied is still very high, which meant that a strong demand for homes remained, which is likely to be good news for those with investment properties.

A senior financial analyst at Global Investment House recently told Reuters that the idea of a sudden correction in the housing market in Dubai was "far-fetched", asserting that the government would not allow prices to drop significantly.


----------



## Cyrus55

Is View (Greens by Emaar) is as good as Marina for investment?


----------



## glover

i am selling one of my one beds in Bay Central (West Tower). 771 sqft on the 14th floor with partial sea view. Asking price: AED 1.47m. comes with the extended 15 year payment plan. 

need some cash!!

pm me if you are a serious buyer!!!


----------



## mission

Anyone got any 1beds on offer?? for the torch pm me...


----------



## AppleMac

Thorneyvilla1 said:


> The Views is one of the best investments in Dubai. Great location, its finished pretty much, wide open spaces either side, quiet, no room for Emaar to build anything else to block your view. Plus it'll always be attractive to the golf crowd, and they have money.
> 
> Still, if you like construction noise, go to the Marina, cos they're going to be building there forever.


I was told on Saturday that the Emirate golf course was slated for redevelopment once the new courses out at Jumeirah Golf Estates were completed - although I have not seen anything in writing.

But nothing would surprise me - a place called the 'views' without a view. Only in Dubai :nuts:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

mission said:


> Anyone got any 1beds on offer?? for the torch pm me...


Here you go only 2400 psf 

http://www.gnads4u.com/doc.html?_a=view&id=3851117


----------



## Thorneyvilla1

AppleMac said:


> I was told on Saturday that the Emirate golf course was slated for redevelopment once the new courses out at Jumeirah Golf Estates were completed - although I have not seen anything in writing.
> 
> But nothing would surprise me - a place called the 'views' without a view. Only in Dubai :nuts:


That would explain why Emaar are currently building G+1 luxury villas around the sides of the golf course:bash:


----------



## AppleMac

Thorneyvilla1 said:


> That would explain why Emaar are currently building G+1 luxury villas around the sides of the golf course:bash:


I think that anyone who buys anything in Dubai based on the 'view' is very brave. :2cents:


----------



## Hanna

*Ivory Tower*

Business 

Real Estate Property 


Investors in Ivory Tower project still receive cancellation threats 
By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: September 01, 2008, 23:54


Dubai: Investors in Sokook's much-maligned Ivory Tower project continue to be threatened with cancellation of their contracts, according to investors.

One investor said that although Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) is backing investors, Saudi developer Sokook is still sending 14-day notices instructing investors to pay the remaining 90 per cent on their units or the contracts will be cancelled. The letters are signed by an unknown person at Sokook.

Another investor told Gulf News that the Ivory Tower action group, which is now more than 40 people strong, visited the Land Department last week to seek guidance. Hundreds of investors bought off-plan units in the 20-storey tower since it was launched in 2005. 

Last February the development began to sour, with Sokook telling investors to stop paying their monthly installments due to a dispute with Tecom, the master developer of the International Media Production Zone. 

Construction was supposed to begin in Nov-ember, three years behind schedule.

Sokook then began cancelling contracts, accusing investors of not paying the installments.

Investors hope that a couple of new laws that are being implemented by the Dubai Land Department will help keep developers in line.

Emad Eldin Farouq, senior legal adviser in the Land Department, told investors that law No 13 of 2008 aims to regulate off-plan sales and make registration of units with the Land Department compulsory.

"Any sale or other disposition that transfers or restricts title shall be void if not registered in the interim real estate register," the new law stipulates.

Another law that is due to be passed in the coming days will regulate payments, ensuring installments are kept in line with the progress of construction, or lack of it in the Sokook case.

Mohammad Bin Ghalib, chief executive officer of Sokook, was unavailable for comment when contacted by Gulf News yesterday.

Investors in Ivory Tower claim Sokook is ignoring all requests to reinstate the contracts and believe that taking Sokook to court is "inevitable". :cheers:


----------



## docc

Again, can someone tell me how the new laws would discourage flippers? Some educated guesses would be appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## FWIW

^^ Money is tied up longer (as I understand a minimum of 1 year) and therefore would reduce the number of times a property is flipped. Also I hear that during that 1 year at least 30% of the property value must be paid. This again will dampen the flippers abilty to flip.

I am sure a determined flipper would be able to get round these rules anyway, but the majority would be put off.


----------



## 234sale

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Archive...nstruction+surges+ahead+despite+credit+crunch

Palm and Atlantis Featured


----------



## Imre

docc said:


> Again, can someone tell me how the new laws would discourage flippers? Some educated guesses would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.


nothing.

I would rather call them short term investors


----------



## Dubai_Steve

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10241627.html

The prevailing high prices in Dubai's real estate sector are not sustainable for long and a slowdown is likely, a top asset management company chief executive said yesterday.

"Prices are bound to stop growing at this maddening scale," said Shehab Gargash, chief executive officer (CEO) of Daman Investments, on the sidelines of a press conference to announce investment in renewable energy venture. "Will it be a crash? I don't think so. I doubt we will see a significant long-term bust. But we will see corrections." 

As long as demand continues to grow, the real estate sector will witness growth and prices will rise, he added. "But Dubai is no longer a straightforward build-and-sell proposition." 

In recent weeks, the real estate sector in the UAE has been under the spotlight for various reasons, including a much discussed, and criticised, Morgan Stanley report which said that Dubai is headed for a 10 per cent dip in prices in two years when supply comes online. 

Gargash, however, did not elaborate on the kind of correction the market may experience but said that the market is in consolidation phase. He said that the market will see a differentiation in terms of good quality and bad quality developers. 

A developer agrees with Gargash's thoughts. Given the "unrealistic" spiralling of the price of land in Dubai, property prices have been skyrocketing, said a developer and "that is simply unsustainable." 

"The prices are unreasonably high", said Mohammad Nimer, chief executive officer of MAG Group Property Development. "It is becoming less and less attractive for investors and end-users and so, a correction is bound to happen. And people who bought will actually realise that the price they paid was 'inflated' and the secondary market investors and buyers will stop and think before they invest," he added. 

Over the past month, the Government of Dubai has passed a mortgage law that makes registration compulsory and also that cracks down on off-plan sales, giving rise to fears of speculation coming down and the market getting badly dented. "The new laws passed will have a positive impact on the market, though they will slow down the market. The market will be harder but it will be stronger," he said. 

It is premiums that the market has witnessed in recent years that may become a thing of the past, said Sudhir Kumar, managing director of Realtors International, adding that he is not expecting a slackening of the market in the next two years. 

"There may be a temporary shake up of the market, given the corrective measures being taken," he said. "What is possible, is when all the regulations are passed, then the abnormal rise in premiums will not happen."


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai housing prices are expected to increase by as much as 35% in 2008, before slowing to a more manageable 8-10% in 2009, according to several banks and research firms. So far this year, prices have increased by an average of 40% in both residential and commercial markets according to one company.

The Al Mal Capital Dubai real estate price index indicates that, through July of 2008, year over year prices for property in the Emirate had appreciated by a whopping 39.9% and in the commercial segment by 40.5%. While the performance of the market so far this year has been excellent, Al Mal expects it to ease off a bit by the end of the year, with one reason being the rise in the US dollar. This could take some foreign speculators, who are driving up costs hoping for a quick turnaround, out of the market. While it will slow the growth, it will also be a good event for the long term health of the Dubai real estate market.

While Al Mal is fairly bullish on the Dubai market, Morgan Stanley had a more pessimistic report. The investment bank recently released a report that said the Dubai property market would drop 10% by 2010 as supply outpaced demand. However, this view is not shared by many other analysts and some view the Dubai market as a solid investment for several years.

According to Morgan Stanley's price index, Dubai property prices rose 25% in the first half of 2008, and are up 79% since the beginning of 2007. "Prices have been driven by a combination of genuine demand, speculation and, most recently, escalating construction costs," said the report. It continued: "For 2009, we expect prices to start coming under pressure as oversupply becomes evident. We forecast a 10-percent decline between 2008 and 2010 in our base case."


----------



## diveksa

*Small Ajman developers underselling properties*

Source 24/7
http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/9/Pages/09032008_d4bb10d5d8c1425f803ea880d0bd2485.aspx
By Anjana Kumar on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 

Baseline real estate prices in Ajman should now realistically be around Dh700 a square foot to Dh750 a square foot onwards, according to Gowealthy.com, the region's property portal website and property brokerage firm.

The company's Chief Executive Peter Penhall said in Ajman, smaller developers are underselling their properties at lower prices.

Penhall added that Dubai's realty continues to spell varied opportunities for buyers, and investors will be key to spurring the momentum of its realty market.

"Investors are an absolute requirement for any market and every market has to have an element of speculation. It is only a matter of managing such elements in a realty market which is what Dubai's government is considering," said Penhall, in an interview with Emirates Business.



You have opened one of the biggest brokerage offices that Ajman has seen so far. You obviously have a lot of faith in the Ajman market. How is it looking at the moment? 

Ajman has lagged behind some of the other emirates principally because of the lack of infrastructure in the short-term. But the government is doing its bit and has budgeted Dh400 billion towards infrastructural costs. It has also allotted Dh3bn for roads and highways in the emirate. 

A coal power plant worth Dh7.5bn is to be installed in Ajman. The emirate's airport is underway with a budget of Dh1.5bn. The current problems of electricity and power will, hopefully, be addressed soon.

The government has also set the ball rolling for a regulatory process in the real estate market. 

Smaller developers dominated Ajman in the past because the cost of entry was much lower. 

We have committed to a fairly large office that will have over 40 sales and administrative staff of 17 nationalities. 


Some developers have been selling at Dh550 a square foot in Ajman, is that sustainable?

The baseline competitive price in Ajman now should be Dh700 to Dh750 a square foot. Some developers were selling at Dh250 and Dh400 a square foot. To us those are not realistic prices and Ajman is going to bear the consequences of that in the short-term. Steps are being taken by the government to ensure that any commitment to any development is of substance and will allow overall development to take place.



*How effective will the recent steps taken by Dubai's government-owned developers be to curb speculation in the market?*
I think the recent steps will have the effect of lowering some of the speculative activity in the market. It's a feature that was necessary. The market in some ways was overheated. What Dubai realty is looking for is investors who can underpin the market in the medium- to longer- term, not necessarily those that want to come in without a considerable financial backing.

Regulations in a market generally put a damper on smaller developers who might be looking for quick sales. But they will be soon forgotten and replaced with more long-term investors.



What is the current mix of investors and end-users in Dubai's realty market?

I don't think you can determine any given mix. Every project is different and promoted differently. The buyer profile depends on the project and the life cycle of the master-development. If the master-development is relatively new then they will rely more heavily on the interim-owners from an investment point of view. Those will then sell out more to end-users down the line. It boils down to where every project is placed within a master-development.



How will the recent bribery cases among top executives of Dubai-based real estate companies affect the buyer sentiment in the market ?

In the short-term, pessimism born out of that will have a marginal negative affect. But we also believe, globally, realty markets tend to have a short-term memory and I'm sure you will see in a couple of weeks we will be re-bounding, especially with Cityscape just around the corner. That will actually bring a very positive attitude into the market.


Compulsory off-plan registrations, will that help contain speculators in the market?

In any business, if you entertain a sub-system that is not regulated, there will always be an element that will look to take advantage of it. The mandatory off-plan registration system is a rollout of regulations from Rera and further strengthens its position as the regulatory authority.

Emaar has always had a policy that 30 per cent of a property's value needs to be have been paid up before a buyer can re-sell it. 



*We have heard about Dubai's property market being in the early phase of maturing. Could you elaborate on the signs of a mature market?*

The typical signs of a mature market is when the prices get static and the government has all the regulations in place. Mature markets also tend to attract major institutional real estate funds. In Dubai, we are now seeing regulations coming into the fray. When they do, we will see levelling of prices and then there will be more institutional funds entering the market as well. In that sense, we still have time to mature.



*Does Dubai hold a large capacity for realty growth? Are we going to see a certain levelling off in the near term? *

I personally think the realty market in Dubai has a huge capacity, with massive growth already in progression. The recent Morgan Stanley report was ludicrous. According to our findings, the market has grown by 50 per cent in the last six months. Dubai realty prices will definitely level off since no realty sector can sustain such growth. The demand curve will continue to be there but its growth will flatten over time.



*Would you tell people to buy now in Dubai?*

With Rera's tightening up of the regulations in Dubai, you will see some of the properties being traded lower than the market rate in order to allow speculators to exit the market without too much damage. In that sense it is still a buyer's market, with an opportunity for buyers to look for varied options.



PETER PENHALL, CEO, GOWEALTHY.COM


Penhall's position within the Gowealthy Group has seen progress within the company, which has in itself grown from being a property portal to a become a multi-million dollar organisation covering various facets of the realty sector such as leasing, property management and marketing. 

Gowealthy now has five offices including one in Mayfair, London, three offices in Dubai and one newly-opened outlet in Ajman. 

Previously Penhall was the Group Managing Director of Demef Holdings Limited in South Africa until 2003. Penhall is a Chartered Accountant, a qualification he obtained in South Africa in 1980.


----------



## NeilP

Burjul Ain Tower, Ajman

Special Offer - free air tickets to Dubai 

9.69% RENTAL GUARANTEE FOR 1 YEAR


Burjul Ain is a 30 floor building every floor will consist of 4 studios, Four 2 bed apartments and Eight 1 bed apartments this building is in an excellent location overlooking the lake 

Special discount for bulk buyers

Ajman is fast becoming a "hotspot" and an excellent choice for investors

Amenities & Features

Professionally managed health club.Temperature controlled RIM FLOW swimming pool. Childrens play area. Jacuzzi. Sauna and Steam Room. Landscaped sitting area. 24 hour security and maintenance. Broadband internet connectivity. Reserved parking area for each owner. 4 elevators and emergency staircases. Fully equipped kitchens. Fitted Wardrobes. Freehold property.

Prices and Payment
Studios from 244080AED (£33900)
1 bed from 431790AED 690sq ft (£59970)
2 bed from 582060AED 1068sq ft (£80841)

Excellent Payment plan
5% on booking
5% within 30 days
2% monthly (40 installments)
10% on completion expected April 2012

Is this the type of discounted deal ??? Is it a good deal ???


----------



## mackie1964

*Where is it going to end?*

6.48 actually 





















How did that happen, I posted after reading yours (NeilP)


----------



## NeilP

With the £ now only getting 6.5 aed. Everything has gone up 10% in three weeks. This must be impacting on sales. Could Ajman now be more attractive because of cheaper prices. May be "flippers" can do good business here. Once again residency visas are being promised on freehold property.


----------



## carpetking

Residence Visa in Ajman is promised this year,and whats next year ? same like Dubai ?

first they promised us a residence visa and now is cancelled :bash::bash::bash:


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## smussuw

getting visa because u have a property doesn't make sense, so it was wrong to begin with ...


----------



## BenjiDXB

what about people who wanted to retire here or at least the spend the winter months in dubai ?


----------



## Rob Timpie

shiraj_hoque said:


> Rob
> 
> nice pics. Memon dont even have them on their website.
> I also like the location of CT4.
> 
> any news on the other CT construction progresses?


Yes Shiraj, the location is perfect 
Now we only need a contractor who's going to build CT4... :?


----------



## dubinv

smussuw said:


> getting visa because u have a property doesn't make sense, so it was wrong to begin with ...


it doesn't make sense so I will be obliged to sell my apartment and my office and I will leave.And I will not be alone. All my money was in this country, I will put it somewhere else


----------



## dubinv

If it's not possible to live here as I do for 2 years, no problem


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## Imre

carpetking said:


> Residence Visa in Ajman is promised this year,and whats next year ? same like Dubai ?
> 
> first they promised us a residence visa and now is cancelled :bash::bash::bash:


I have no idea what are you talking about.

one of my friend got the visa yesterday for 3 years, he has an apartment in the JLT.DMCC still give visa.


----------



## Imre

NeilP said:


> With the £ now only getting 6.5 aed. Everything has gone up 10% in three weeks. This must be impacting on sales. Could Ajman now be more attractive because of cheaper prices. May be "flippers" can do good business here. Once again residency visas are being promised on freehold property.


Ajman is not good for flipping, still many apartments available, good for mid-long term investments.


----------



## Richard Head

NeilP said:


> With the £ now only getting 6.5 aed. Everything has gone up 10% in three weeks. This must be impacting on sales. Could Ajman now be more attractive because of cheaper prices. May be "flippers" can do good business here. Once again residency visas are being promised on freehold property.


Only for brits buying holiday property here, or brits living here who are moving money from the UK to buy. As a Brit living here, paid in AED and taking a mortgage from a UAE bank, it makes absolutely no difference. The proportion of the potential new buyers affected by this is minimal. The vast majority are now Gulf based, or Russian investors. Can't see this having any significant impact on prices. My understanding of money markets is fairly limited though, would be interesting to hear a view from High Times or any of those other guys who know their stuff on this subject.


----------



## carpetking

Imre said:


> I have no idea what are you talking about.
> 
> one of my friend got the visa yesterday for 3 years, he has an apartment in the JLT.DMCC still give visa.



Imre,you think its also possible to get a visa with a Dubai-Marina 

Time Place apartment ?


----------



## Imre

I dont know the Time Place but I think when the sundial ready you will have a visa


----------



## dubaiote

Imre said:


> Ajman is not good for flipping, still many apartments available, good for mid-long term investments.


Thats very interesting. I am looking for a mid/long-term investment and the prices in Ajman work much better for my budget than DBX - can I ask what is a good masterplanned project, developer, project you would recommend in Ajman?

I kept being scared that buyers would end up holding apts that were not resellable in the future, given the never ending construction spree in the Northern emirates.


----------



## carpetking

Imre said:


> I dont know the Time Place but I think when the sundial ready you will have a visa



Inshallah


----------



## High Times

NeilP said:


> With the £ now only getting 6.5 aed. Everything has gone up 10% in three weeks. This must be impacting on sales. Could Ajman now be more attractive because of cheaper prices. May be "flippers" can do good business here. Once again residency visas are being promised on freehold property.





Richard Head said:


> Only for brits buying holiday property here, or brits living here who are moving money from the UK to buy. As a Brit living here, paid in AED and taking a mortgage from a UAE bank, it makes absolutely no difference. The proportion of the potential new buyers affected by this is minimal. The vast majority are now Gulf based, or Russian investors. Can't see this having any significant impact on prices. My understanding of money markets is fairly limited though, would be interesting to hear a view from High Times or any of those other guys who know their stuff on this subject.


Richard is correct,

The recent slump in the Sterling v Dollar (therefore Dirham), only has an impact on a Sterling based investor having to make payments in the UAE.

Using myself as an example I used a forward contract with a corrency exchange provider for 2 years worth of premiums for my units starting in July 2008 which takes me to July 2010. I fixed at just under 7.2 Dirhams. So this in effect means that i am positively effected by the slump in sterling as the lower sterling goes the higher my investment is valued when i decide to re-patriate any profit either by way of income from rent or from a sale of a unit.

The downside is that i will have to buy more currency form 2010 until i start getting rent from my units (paid in Dirham) to fund further payments, so i reckon about a years worth, but anything can happen in 2 years and the pound should be stonger agian (i hope).

I think you also need to understand that anything upwards of 7 Drihams to £1 is not in the normal envalope and has only occured due to weaknes in the dollar which is hedged against a basket of comodities, which as we know have been climbing for the last 2-3 years. So with comodities falling (gold, oil, weat, barley) the Dollar will gain and so will the Dirham.

At the same time as the Dollar getting stronger, the UK econemy is entering recession and so foriegn cash investment leaves the country looking for a better home. When the Bank of England reduces interest rates by .25% in either October or November this will not help the Sterling v Dollar rate so you need to factor this into your decision if looking or needing to buy currency.

The normal rate of exchange over the last 5 years has averaged out at AED 6.7 - £1 (roughly) so anything above that has been a bonus in my book.

In summary i think it will be a while before we see 7+ again.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Do you think the rate will go above 6.47 again before March 09?


----------



## AltinD

Imre said:


> I dont know the Time Place but I think when the sundial ready you will have a visa


Oh the sundial ... what about the promissed high-tech cou-cou watch from Switzerland? :lol:


----------



## High Times

Dubai_Steve said:


> Do you think the rate will go above 6.47 again before March 09?


If I could guarantee you this answer Steve, I would be a a very wealthy man indeed. My hunch is that we will see Sterling continue to fall until the spring of 2009.

Reasons:

We have just seen 1 quarter of 0% growth. We will see another when the figures come out in November. Technicaly this means the "R" word, this itself is not that significant as it feels like we are in a recession anyway with food and fuel going up at a scary rate.

Inflation in my view is looking higher than it actualy is due to the last 3-4 months surge in oil prices and food prices. Because of the way that data is recorded, collected and analysed there is about a 3 month delay in the numbers that get looked at to make decisions like what to do with interest rates.

The Bank of England will have to reduce interest rates this year by at least .25% but hopefully .5% - 1%. This should of happened at the bigining of the year, it didnt because of the oil spike.

When the BoE cut rates it makes Sterling less attractive to hold and therefore it's value declines. Thats why every time the base rate stays on hold Sterling drops as hedgers think it has to drop next month so lets get out now and so it becomes a vicious circle. 

In my opinion we wont see the bottom until rates actualy get cut and this produces a better climate for UK business which in turn will produce posative growth figures again. Timing wise i think this will happen April/May 2009.

There is also a political edge to currency fluctuation too. Sterling is suffering because of the Brown effect. I think world leaders are laughing at the UK
government at the moment as they appear weak and out of control. I also think that there is an air of hope and change with the upcoming US Presidential elections and that is being factored into the Dollar attraction.

If i had to make a decision today about buying Dirham then whatever amount I needed for the next 2 years i would by 50% now (ie 1 years worth) and then buy more when the contract expired.

We were looking at similar rates back in 2005 and that didnt stop the money coming into Dubai.

Basicaly in my view we have been spoiled with rates in excess of AED 7. Those days have gone. 

We need an election in the UK quickly !!


----------



## Doctor_UK

bought 1 pound = 6.41 AED today.... .... Thank God it was only for bay central quarterly payment... so not a big effect

it's DIVING now like anything hno:

bought 1 pound = 6.5 AED only 3 days back.... 

and bought 1 pound = 6.7 only 2 weeks back....

and the experts at the Xchange were saying that it will dip even further..... 


ON A GOOD NOTE.... 

i have already transferred MOST of my money to UAE (while > 7.0) and, same for everyone in my position.... AED now getting stronger will ONLY BE BENEFICIAL for us, our savings and our property value 







....


----------



## foxy

A commentary on what is moving the dollar.


http://www.ft.com/cms/bfba2c48-5588-11dc-b971-0000779fd2ac.html


----------



## High Times

^^^^

Load of bollox IMO.

This data comes from Morgan Stanley who have recently been forced to write off $940 million of bad debt on their balance sheet due to bad decisions on lending and investing in securities that are of no value.

As i have said before i wouldn't let MS manage my sons pocket money.

They are full of shit, and all their anaysis is self serving propaganda.


----------



## Northstar

Hello Guys,

I wanted to buy something in Ajman for a quick flip, was wondering if anybody has any suggestions.
Thanks


----------



## FWIW

High Times said:


> ^^^^
> 
> Load of bollox IMO.
> 
> This data comes from Morgan Stanley who have recently been forced to write off $940 million of bad debt on their balance sheet due to bad decisions on lending and investing in securities that are of no value.
> 
> As i have said before i wouldn't let MS manage my sons pocket money.
> 
> They are full of shit, and all their anaysis is self serving propaganda.


^^ The funny thing is the guy that drew that smiley face is probably pi**ing himself laughing all the way to his own private bank! 
Anyone who thinks drawing a smiley face and you can understand the market fundamentals is either fooling you or themselves!

Agree with HT - Vested interests are everywhere and normally call themselves analysts!


----------



## baba toto

awc said:


> No...they didnt start on Lawns,,,As went to see them last week. And they said construction not started yet coz Nakheel didnt allow them yet and when Nakheel will complete its villas then they will allow us to start construction.So dont know whether they said right or just bla bla bla.
> Anyfeedback from anyone welcome.


Can the developer produce any correspondence to support this claim? Franky they have had investors' money for a long time (since 2006 in my case) and still nothing to show for it....hno:

Would they consider transferring that deposit towards another project e.g. (business Bay) where they may have started work, at the same price paid originally?:bash:


----------



## nisha

Morten_Denmark said:


> I dont think that 200 $ is sustainable but in short-term I am convinced that we will pass this mark as the consumption has a certain momentum.





Morten_Denmark said:


> I never follow analysts in any decisions - my best stocks have been playing the opposite game.
> 
> We will soon find out if there will be a spectacular crash. I dont think there will be a crash the next year or two. Meanwhile the liquidity is piling up in the middle east especially - and this is what is important here. Liquidity in the middle east are not going in the bank.
> 
> Even the people with great insight are disagreeing on this oil topic - so why would be know better.


Still think oil will touch 200$....and still believe liquidity piling up in the middle east??!


----------



## 234sale

chang said:


> Interesting article on power shortage in BB.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/530021-power-shortage-starts-to-bite-business-bay?ln=en
> 
> If the situation is so bad, wonder how some predictions of oversupply next year can be true.
> 
> Wish analysts could give a list of projects they expect to be completed in the next few years when the release their report on demand / supply of property in dubai.


from that article

"ASGC has handed over the South Ridge project in Business Bay":lol:

and as we all agree access is more of an issue for Citadel..

Power shortage is across UAE,, not a specific location


----------



## docc

Aren't the investors in Citadel going to be pissed? They paid up and now have no power and no decent access roads!


----------



## Spooner

agod said:


> Worried1, great handel you have, barge pole and dont touch come to mind, no one gives you a free lunch, and when a well known hotel group wants you to come to the party, and join in making loads of money with them, run a mile, because if it was that good they would keep it for themselves.
> 
> Alan


Alan,
I can't make any sense of your logic.
Bonnington Tower has been completely sold out since mid 2005. Those room rates quoted are on their hotel website, so Bonnington are not trying to entice would-be investors, as they nave hothing to sell in the Tower.
The website is looking for guests, not investors. http://www.gsfitchstaging.com/bonningtonv3/home.html


----------



## iced

*Market manipulation*

If the CEO of a company isuch as Emaar is able to manipulate the company share price without action from the Regulatory authority then this very worring indeed. Also highly unethical. This scenario is very unlikely.

It could be argued that Emaar could similarily behave in such a manner in the property market and reduce prices and then buy them back on the cheap.

I believe that the UAE share prices are falling in sympathy with regional markets as well as global markets and not because of insdier market manipulation. The stock market at current levels are less risky than property in the meduim term.


----------



## rbj

999bbb said:


> Exactly, I have friends who are pulling big money out of shares and back into property because they can make more out of property this and the fact that Cityscape is around the corner wil give the property market a gentle shove it needs at present (happens every year)


Quite agree, just because the uk and usa markets and house prices are tumbling, investors will look elsewhere to make money. After the summer and ramadam , then citiscape prices will again shoot up, there is no reason for it not to.


----------



## Art-8888

iced said:


> Also highly unethical


Ethics, there is no such word in the dictionary of Dubai or the whole UAE in my opinion.


----------



## worried1

*AGOD does it mean*



Spooner said:


> Alan,
> I can't make any sense of your logic.
> Bonnington Tower has been completely sold out since mid 2005. Those room rates quoted are on their hotel website, so Bonnington are not trying to entice would-be investors, as they nave hothing to sell in the Tower.
> The website is looking for guests, not investors. http://www.gsfitchstaging.com/bonningtonv3/home.html


AGOD does it mean that the whole concept of investing in service appartments or condo hotels is not a good one?


----------



## agod

Spooner said:


> Alan,
> I can't make any sense of your logic.
> Bonnington Tower has been completely sold out since mid 2005. Those room rates quoted are on their hotel website, so Bonnington are not trying to entice would-be investors, as they nave hothing to sell in the Tower.
> The website is looking for guests, not investors. http://www.gsfitchstaging.com/bonningtonv3/home.html


Hi Spooner, I was answering worried ones question that was "do these rates seem to rosy" I have not looked into Bonningtons too deeply, except this link http://www.gulfnews.com/Business/Investment/10211045.html but i have a bad experience of this type of thing in Florida, and the rate soon gets slashed to fill the rooms and you get nothing like they promise.

Alan


----------



## Morrismarina

worried1 said:


> AGOD does it mean that the whole concept of investing in service appartments or condo hotels is not a good one?


I personally don't like the idea of serviced apartments, although many people do find them attractive. For me the loss of control over your property is something I really don't like. If the Hotel performs poorly then your returns are likewise dissappointing and this of course directly affects the value of your unit if you wanted to sell it. Who would want to buy into a poorly run business of which you have no control whatsoever. Also there is no option to live in your apartment yourself on a fulltime basis and you cannot rent long term either. Of course if the hotel is well run (all you can do is keep your fingers crossed that this will be the case) then returns could be very good.......... but there's too much lack of control, restriction and potential downside for my liking. Your basically on a wing and a prayer IMO.


----------



## fairouza

*Untangling a web of discontent*

original published 09 September 2008
The National 

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080908/BUSINESS/984362566/1005

Untangling a web of discontent
Overseas investors in off-plan properties in Dubai are turning to the internet to monitor their ventures – and to air their grievances against developers.

The proliferation of online property forums is giving foreign homebuyers unprecedented access to fellow investors, as well as to the latest information on their properties.

The property blogs are also being used to air grievances, albeit anonymously, with some websites, such as www.dubai7stars.com, geared specifically towards complaints against projects and developers.

The number of web forums created by groups of investors who have shared bad experiences with a particular project is also on the rise.

One example is a site set up by investors in the long-delayed Ivory Tower, a 20-storey residential project in Dubai’s International media Production Zone, which is being developed by the Saudi Arabian firm Sokook Investment Group.

With no sign of the project starting construction three years after it was launched, and with little information from the developer, the site was the only way for home buyers to gauge what was happening with their investment, as well as for those unfamiliar with the Dubai market to exchange knowledge on what their legal rights might be.

“As an isolated investor, the site has been an immense help to me in finding other aggrieved investors, particularly those living in Dubai,” said Richard Moore, a UK-based investor in Ivory Tower.

“It also allowed us to share legal knowledge and ideas on how to proceed – we have delegated different jobs to different people so we can work as a more effective and collective group. If it wasn’t for the website, I would have been completely at the mercy of the developer, as my estate agent had washed his hands of the situation.”

But as the blog gathered momentum and attracted the media’s attention to the saga, it was mysteriously closed down.

Complaints about Ivory Tower posted on www.skyscrapercity.com – a global forum for building enthusiasts – were also culled by the site’s mediator, under the premise that “skyscrapercity.com is not the place to vent anger against developers”.

“I can only suspect that individuals who the content was harming had this done,” Mr Moore said.

While the internet has become a crucial means of communication for overseas property buyers, it has also been used to start vendettas against some developers.

Kabir Mulchandani, the chairman of the property investment firm Dynasty Zarooni, recently became the online target of an alleged smear campaign when anonymous bloggers accused him of fraudulently selling property in a Dubai project to investors in his home country of India.

The campaign reached such a wide audience that newspapers in India – where Mr Mulchandani was involved in a high-profile case of tax evasion in the late 1990s – reported the story. One newspaper quoted a source at the Dubai Real Estate and Regulatory Authority (Rera) as saying it was going to question Mr Mulchandani about the fraud allegations. Rera later denied giving the newspaper a quote.

Still, because of the allegations, Rera examined the case and cleared Mr Mulchandani and his company of any wrongdoing. Mr Mulchandani believes a former employee was behind the online campaign.

“Financially, we have grown very quickly, and when you grow very quickly you make a lot of enemies. This was a clear campaign to damage us,” he said.

Mr Mulchandani said that his past was also used against him.

“I did have some issues in India regarding taxation. I was a very high-profile businessman and had a business that ran into trouble. We went to litigation and won that litigation. I have made mistakes in the past and have paid my dues,” he said.

Dynasty Zarooni made the unusual move of responding to the accusations on the website in an effort to defend itself.

Mr Mulchandani said: “The people writing on blogs should reveal their identity. I believe if you have something to say then say it with your name on it. If these people were genuine investors they should have contacted us with their problem and we would have solved it. We can’t keep responding to them online, it’s humanly impossible.”

The web accusations were particularly upsetting to Hilal al Zarooni, the local partner and president of Dynasty Zarooni.

“My family has been in real estate here for 50 years and we’re very well-known people,” he said.

“It is not good for our company, or for Dubai, for false things to be made on the internet. I think there should be some sort of regulation on this, because today, genuine businesses and a genuine project can be seriously damaged by blogs.”

While there are no defamation laws in Dubai specifically governing online content, an online author found guilty of making false accusations against an individual or company faces similar penalties to those charged with defamation using other forms of media. “The penalties for such crimes are imprisonment of between one and six months and/or a fine of up to Dh5,000,” said Miriam McGregor, an associate at the law firm Clyde & Co.

Marwan bin Ghalita, the chief executive of Rera, said the authority was not planning to ban online property blogs, but a developer had the right to sue anyone who published false information about it online.

“These blogs aren’t helping anybody, and most of the information on them aren’t true,” Mr Ghalita said.

“There is freedom of speech and you can’t keep people quiet, but if they have a complaint they should go through the proper channels.”

Alexander McNabb, a group account director at Spot On Public Relations, said property developers should embrace the internet as a way of communicating with customers and use it to update them on a project’s progress.

“The trouble with property companies in Dubai is that they’ve traditionally got away with running hyperbolic advertisements making claims about properties, but never actually having a dialogue to follow it up with the people who have bought in,” he said.

“The internet is a symptom of a consumer-driven market, so if you’ve been criticised online you either fix what you’ve been criticised for or you get online and take part in that dialogue. You don’t just have the site shut down.”

Mr McNabb said that many investors in property, particularly those who lived overseas, would appreciate online communication with developers.

“Property companies have to learn to communicate with their customers,” he said.

“Most people online will appreciate the dialogue rather than silence. And if you’ve got unhappy customers, how long can you afford to simply ignore them?

“Developers need to learn about online communities and maybe start up their own online communities where customers can go to a specialised site and monitor the progress of the project.”

[email protected]


----------



## Naz UK

Angela Giuffrida, ex-editor of Construction Week. It's great to see her write this. She'd never have been able to do so whilst still at CW or it would've been another "emergency stop" at the press and a few hours of delay as the "revised" edition hit the streets!


----------



## docc

Naz, thats so unlike you. You actually said something nice about someone. Is this the beginning of a new Naz?


----------



## Naz UK

The old Naz is the new Naz, like pink is the new blue and gay is the new macho.


----------



## AltinD

docc said:


> Naz, thats so unlike you. You actually said something nice about someone. Is this the beginning of a new Naz?


What, where, when ...


----------



## AltinD

> original published 09 September 2008
> The National
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080908/BUSINESS/984362566/1005
> 
> Untangling a web of discontent
> 
> ...Complaints about [email protected]?&# Tower posted on www.skyscrapercity.com – a global forum for building enthusiasts – were also culled by the site’s mediator, under the premise that “skyscrapercity.com is not the place to vent anger against developers”.
> 
> “I can only suspect that individuals who the content was harming had this done,” Mr Moore said.
> 
> [email protected]


GET LOST! :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## bizzybonita

fairouza alawys posted the national of troubles or somethin will never bulid again !  :runaway:


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai likely be most expensive commercial property location in the world 



*Dubai, popularly known as the city of tall towers, may soon prove to be the most expensive commercial real estate location in the world, reports The Gulf News.*

The latest reports have already placed Dubai as the sixth among the list of most expensive office space in the world, behind other commercial big-hitters such as London, Moscow, Hong Kong, Tokyo and Mumbai.

The world's most expensive location at present, London, has noticed that investors are getting timid, as they are passing through the effects of a global credit crunch. The gloomy financial predictions and stringent measures, have led to a plunge in commercial property values, with a recent 20 percent decline noticed in values.

In the meanwhile, in the shiny and optimistic skyscrapers of Dubai, the sky is the limit, as far as real estate is concerned. High demand for office space is driving the prices sky-high, while the supply has been lagging behind.

It is likely that the companies may think twice before setting up large headquarter type of offices in Dubai, due to the spiraling costs. This may prompt establishment of smaller businesses, giving investors a presence in the Middle East, although not a head office.

A drop in prices is unlikely before 2012, but the status of UAE thereafter, is not known. At present, Dubai has 19.1mn square feet of commercial space, boasting a 98 percent occupancy rate. Most of the commercial properties being sold are given off off-plan to developers, striving to keep pace with the demand.

About 75.8mn square feet of space is likely to enter the market within 2012, and then with more office space finally made available, it should be watched as to what happens to prices here and abroad.

There may not be many other places, other than Dubai and UAE, which has so much development planned. The Dubai International Financial Center, Burj Dubai complex and Business Bay, are all places specifically designed to lure companies towards establishing their shops in Dubai.

The cost of building supplies will continue to rise, as the global market continues to slow down, but, this may push prices even higher. Although this could also bear an impact on the building schedules here, a quick glance at the mixed-use and office specific developments being announced regularly in UAE, indicates the buoyancy and optimism in the market.

Although the inflation touched 11.3 percent towards end of last year, while the rent surged 17.5 percent, these have never hindered the growth of property market in 2008. According to recent study, Dubai has witnessed a 136 percent rise in property sales during the first half of this year, and this is bound to continue.


----------



## NeilP

Would you invest in The Eye Yes or No ?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=624823


----------



## IISinbadII

Any good companies/sites for *Short-Term Rentals*? Thanks.


----------



## rexdmx

AltinD said:


> GET LOST! :lol::lol::lol:


who the hell is this moore guy anyway?


----------



## FWIW

docc said:


> Why shocked?
> 
> You think that after investing hundred's of billions of dollars, they would leave this things to luck and chance? Not in a million years.
> 
> This attitude and aggressiveness is what has brought Dubai to the state that is today. As OTL said, it definitely provides a sense of confidence seeing such people at the helm of Dubai's growth.


The shocking part for me was because he was so open about it.

In the west this no doubt also happens, but it is shrouded in a mystery that nobody can really prove.

So if you want to invest in any stock market you need to understand that these things happen. For me this makes the stock market no better than gambling with the horses. Therefore, I stick with property as my investments.


----------



## docc

Hence the reason why i haven't invested a single penny in stocks


----------



## rexdmx

i disagree with the both of you though.. stock investing is no different from property investing. it pays even more over time.
the simple fact is you have to develop certain skills not necessarily degrees but an understanding of the companies you are buying a stock in.
the fact is most ppl in this forum have developed some sort of skill in dubai properties by reading and researching a lot.
the funny thing is no one does it in stocks...


as buffet puts it" buy a share as a housewifes buys groceries" your moms would always compare and contrast and take the best value in the market..

why can't we do the same in stocks?


----------



## FWIW

docc said:


> Hence the reason why i haven't invested a single penny in stocks


^^ Wise man!

I too am out of shares, stocks, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, my pension is tied to the stock market. Hopefully, that will be worth something when I am retired! If not then at least I have my properties to count on!:lol:


----------



## Sady

How is the legal battle going on guys?


----------



## AltinD

docc said:


> I know, shocking right? Post 7024.
> 
> He must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed....Orrrr finally on the right side of the bed


My point is that post 7024 had no such things. I think you should go back and re-read it.


----------



## docc

Naz UK said:


> Angela Giuffrida, ex-editor of Construction Week. *It's great to see her write this.* She'd never have been able to do so whilst still at CW or it would've been another "emergency stop" at the press and a few hours of delay as the "revised" edition hit the streets!


AltinD,

Well, this is Naz being nice and appreciating something or someone. Its a first for me atleast


----------



## bizzybonita

Imre said:


> He has good opinion about the Marina Heights Tower


BTW he has a big palace at alsoufoah road  with emaar logo on walls !


----------



## docc

Yea, i saw his palace in the emaar documentary on youtube. That place was Ginormous! He mentioned that he has his own little golf course in the backyard which he didn't like to tell people about  He's a pretty cool guy; i like how he's confident in whatever he says. Where on Al Sufouh road is it? I've passed by there a few times and i'm surprised i didn't see it.


----------



## smussuw

^^ His Palace is in Nad Al Shabia and not Al Sufouh ! His brother is my brother in law, that doesn't help though because I didn't benefit at all hno: :laugh:


----------



## agod

All the big movers and shakers of the world have the ability to move markets, Buffett, can do it with one liners, and remember that guy Hunt, who cornered the silver market, and I wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall, of some of these people, "the bouncing cheque", Bob Maxwell, Murdoch, Ecclestone, and a few of theheavy Russians, you would probaly see a lot of it, even cozying up to governments.

I liked the guy very much, I am also a million miles out of shares, and have full confidence in the new Dubai,and the properties market, I like the absoloute rule of the ruler, and the absence of endless committees, consultants, and advisors. Just get on and do it, and the look on the faces of those minions, when he said "pull it down, its ugly" was a treasure.

Alan


----------



## ILOVE-DUBAI

Dubai's Emaar Properties said on Saturday it would implement a programme to buy back shares, which have have fallen by nearly 50 percent this year.

The buyback programme will not be implemented before Oct. 1 in line with the United Arab Emirates Securities and Commodities Authority's regulation that companies cannot execute any share buyback 15 days before the end of the financial quarter, the company said in a statement.

"The decision taken by the board of directors to buy back Emaar shares reflects our firm belief that those shares are currently undervalued in the marketplace," said the firm's chairman Mohamed Alabbar.

"Recent declines in regional markets are largely not in line with the fundamentals of the majority of companies listed here, including Emaar. Rather, the recent performance of the markets here reflects global trends such as credit crisis and global economic slowdown that affect investors' sentiments."

Shares of Emaar Properties fell 3.57 percent to 7.57 dirhams on Thursday. (Reuters)


----------



## mackie1964

I am amazed at the number of people taken in by this guy hno:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Imre said:


> He has good opinion about the Marina Heights Tower


For the record, he was not referring to Marina Heights in this video but another location in the marina. The edit showing marina heights was done afterwards and had no correlation to what he was referring to.


----------



## ILOVE-DUBAI

What you think buy back will change?


----------



## bizzybonita

Homeowners getting used to daily dosage of ‘silly’ emails from amateur property agents 


The first breed is unquestionably smart, and the second undeniably the opposite. Together, they seem to be providing residents with a dose of unrequited entertainment. 

The first lot is a motley bunch of people. They are the enterprising staff of big real estate developers who ‘borrow’ lists of customers from their databank when no one is looking, and ‘loan’ it for a fee. They are those who are ‘only trying to help’ their friends and family members who have recently entered the brokerage business. 

And they are the unscrupulous realtors who have no qualms about selling their lists of existing and potential clients to others in the business. Collectively, they can be called the ‘Helpers’. 

The second lot, by virtue of needing help from the former, but largely by dint of their erratic behaviour are the ‘Helpless’. They could be fresh graduates embarking on a career in property sales, members of newly established realty firms, or that hardy breed of opportunists called ‘freelance property consultants.’ Collectively, they appear clueless, comic and even crazy. 

Residents who have been on the receiving end of communication related to property, will readily agree to this status quo. 

Homeowner EJ says he receives at least 25 unsolicited e-mails every week, and he has tabulated them to prove his points —that his contact details are being sold on a regular basis; that the people who buy or receive the said details do not know how to use it and there are many mentally challenged people currently engaged in the property business in Dubai. 

“How do you explain the fact that someone called Mr Henry sends me an e-mail addressed to ‘Dear Colleague’ saying he has a villa for sale at Veneto for Dh5.6 million, and that I can add whatever commission I want to it before I sell it, followed by another one a minute later addressed to ‘Dear Client’ stating exactly the same thing — but with a price tag of Dh6.1 million?,” questions EJ. 

“Or take the case of the prudent Mohammed who sends every e-mail with a warning in big red letters: ‘This price will jump soon! Buy now! Contact me!’ 

“My favourite is Gloria who considers herself an expert in the Tecom area. She e-mails me almost daily with details of every apartment, and every building in that area, asking me to contact her when any of these come my way. “I am flattered she thinks I live outside the said properties waiting for them to be available. “Can these people not take some time to evaluate the lists, or just to think about what they are doing?” he asks. 


EJ has also saved excerpts of the funniest communication he has received: 

‘This is located above the 18 floor of very tall height’ 
‘Two bedroom apartment has a very large rear’ 
‘Please note that owner is staying over the seas, and he will only coming to Dubai once there is serious buyers. A deposit is a must there-fore’ 
‘It is located less than 100 stations from the Metro station’ 
‘This is better because it has maid’s penthouse’ 
‘Avil-able NOW for immide sales’ 
‘Hope everything goes well with you and your business. I wanted to inform you that there is a pre-launched project that only requires you to invest 11 million net for handsome returns. I promise this perssonally' 
‘We are owner of building and we want to sale by owner cost of price the completion in DEC 2008. Is a very good investment but our partnership about cancellation progress’ 
‘This is a genuine distress sale. GRAPE it now!’


----------



## docc

smussuw said:


> ^^ His Palace is in Nad Al Shabia and not Al Sufouh ! His brother is my brother in law, that doesn't help though because I didn't benefit at all hno: :laugh:


You have got to be kidding me!!! You have clout like that and you didn't use it? Shame on you :bash:



Have you been to his palace?


----------



## smussuw

^^ lol no, the only time I saw him was when he came to our house for his brother and my sisters engagement party


----------



## docc

Sweet! Is junior Alabbar as enterprising as the elder brother?

Smussuw, get off your ass and start working on your PR. Do you know how lucky you are to know him?!


----------



## bizzybonita

Is sky majlis far away from here !? just asking


----------



## IISinbadII

Naz UK said:


> Bizzy, are you Bulldozer girl? I've had this suspicion for some time now, like the way the level of your English seems to change with the relative humidity of Dubai - and how your comments seem to pass in and out of phases of comprehension - rather like a chloroform addict.


Naz.....leave him alone. :mad2:


----------



## docc

Leave "her" alone 

When they say Al Arab city, do they mean Madinat Al Arab? I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't mean this.


----------



## AltinD

^^ They mention also Palm Jebel Ali there so you should be right, however there is also a City of Arabia in DubaiLand so you might not be right afterall. :nuts:


----------



## IISinbadII

docc said:


> Leave "her" alone


R U sure? :nuts:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

*Problem with a real estate agent*

I have an apartment for sale and required x mill net for this apartment. The real estate agent did not want to set a price on this apartment also he was not very clear on the fees he would take. I have now found out that he has listed the apartment at +20% - it was not the intention I was to find out as he meant he had ready cash buyers and it was not necessary to list. 

So I am in a dilemma as there is a potential buyer now - I am getting what I want but I feel cheated because the agent will get 20%. I am sure I am getting out of the deal - but I would like to hear if this is common in Dubai ? I am used to the agent giving advises on the price and then take a fair percentage of an agreed amount for selling.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

Morten_Denmark said:


> I have an apartment for sale and required x mill net for this apartment. The real estate agent did not want to set a price on this apartment also he was not very clear on the fees he would take. I have now found out that he has listed the apartment at +20% - it was not the intention I was to find out as he meant he had ready cash buyers and it was not necessary to list.
> 
> So I am in a dilemma as there is a potential buyer now - I am getting what I want but I feel cheated because the agent will get 20%. I am sure I am getting out of the deal - but I would like to hear if this is common in Dubai ? I am used to the agent giving advises on the price and then take a fair percentage of an agreed amount for selling.


Only in Dubai... I suggest you re-list your property with a reputable agent... and increase your pricing 20%... :cheers:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Old Town Lovin... said:


> Only in Dubai... I suggest you re-list your property with a reputable agent... and increase your pricing 20%... :cheers:


I am quite into the prices and the 20% surprised me - and I still dont think it is realistic. Anyway - I am pulling out of the deal as I find the agent very unrealiable and could expect other problems - as in getting the money. The ironic thing is that I would get a good price and if the agent did not add the 20% I would have done the deal. The agent is not very known - my advise is also to go with a reputable agent.


----------



## mackie1964

The Guys from L Canada did the same with me and I kicked them out, it does happen in Dubai all the time. Any reputable agent will get you the best price and charge 2% of what ever they get you. Please PM me the agent name. :cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

This is now illegal practice and they will be shut down for doing this. You can report rogue agents here: http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/jsp/template.jsp?pageID=10034&&lang=0 The commission must be agreed beforehand and declared on official forms. All the contact info, property details, prices, and commissions for buyer and seller are visible.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Dubai_Steve said:


> This is now illegal practice and they will be shut down for doing this. You can report rogue agents here: http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/jsp/template.jsp?pageID=10034&&lang=0 The commission must be agreed beforehand and declared on official forms. All the contact info, property details, prices, and commissions for buyer and seller are visible.


Thanks Mackie and Steve

I will report them - because they knew I am living abroad I think they thought they could get away with it.


----------



## 234sale

Yep,, Total illegal unless orginially agreed

RERA Registration of Companies and Agents would see company banned. They could be arrested.
This is a serious case of mistrust and in the current environment would be a highlighted and persons made an example.

The only way possible for the agent to do this would be, 
If he wants to he may buy it from you then sell it at a profit himself, That would be allowed.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

234sale said:


> Yep,, Total illegal unless orginially agreed
> 
> RERA Registration of Companies and Agents would see company banned. They could be arrested.
> This is a serious case of mistrust and in the current environment would be a highlighted and persons made an example.
> 
> The only way possible for the agent to do this would be,
> If he wants to he may buy it from you then sell it at a profit himself, That would be allowed.


The following is only what I think - I cant prove it. They will later present me a contract where they have forged the signature - I will have not way to check this up. 

Best thing to do is to sell via an agent which also list the prices on their website - and be speciel aware if they tempt you with "rich cash buyers" !


----------



## BenjiDXB

Morten_Denmark said:


> Thanks Mackie and Steve
> 
> I will report them - because they knew I am living abroad I think they thought they could get away with it.




I would recommend to do such a deal only with one of the two or three most reputable agents in Dubai, which actually have a good reputation to lose and will not mess around for that reason...all you need is transparency and trust...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Which are the best 3 agents for selling?


----------



## docc

Betterhomes and Landmark are pretty reputable. I think Sherwoods is also popular with a lot of people.


----------



## mackie1964

Please tell me you are kidding hno:


----------



## docc

Why? Bad experiences? Well, i've had great response from the first 2. As i mentioned, Sherwood's is popular with people, but i don't have any personal experience with them.


----------



## Joy Machine

I was wondering, there seems to be towers that have been on hold for a while or have lots that never developed further than that (probably over speculation and/or lack of funding and interests). What will happen to those places? Surely they can't just be there partially constructed junking up the place in a sea of gorgeous high rises ...I guess for the lots, I could see that because another developer can come through and buy it up, just may look weird for a while.


----------



## FWIW

^^ A lot of people on SCC slate betterhomes - i find them very good at what they do and have no complaints.


----------



## mackie1964

Well, if you call renting / pricing to rent 15-20% below what I got from a different agent and try to push you to sell below the market value (170K less than what I got same week), charging 1% more than most agents, try to charge fees for selling upfront and insisting on having keys for properties that still under construction (Torch) good. They just don’t understand what they are marketing. If you read some of the emails I have, you will not stop laughing. I don’t consider that good


----------



## FWIW

^^ I think it is down to animal instinct. They think Dubai (or anywhere else for that matter) is inferior to their homeland. So when Dubai builds tallest towers, man made islands, etc, etc within 10 years they find it easier to hate rather than congratulate.


----------



## FWIW

999bbb said:


> I told him to give some to me to spend in UAE !! but you know many people in the UK don't understand the mechanics of it all over there and are still frightened by Muslim culture etc etc and think it is too good to be true, whereas in fact it IS true. I'll keep trying advise him but it's difficult


As the old saying goes you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

I don't think he will lose it though - everyone needs to calm down - just tell him to read this: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/safe-savings


----------



## bizzybonita

Arab real estate markets at risk

Real estate growth in Arab countries may be affected by the decline in global markets and the credit crunch, an official at the Arab Administrative Development Organization (ARADO) said.

"Arab investors are worried now about the possibility of the recent US and international mortgage and credit risk problems affecting the local [real estate] markets," Rafat Abdelhalim Alfieri, ARADO's director general, told newswire Reuters.

Even with surpluses, ready-to-invest capital, increased demand and political stability, Arab property markets need to enact changes to management, mortgage financing and environmental requirements, he said.

Arab governments should update and issue new transparent laws to organise property markets to maintain the recent growth pace, he added. (Reuters)


----------



## Pleth

No More Off-Plan Developments in Dubai 
The government of Dubai is bringing about major changes in property and investment laws to ensure that the booming property market of the city remains so for a long time to come. Following recent changes in investment and visa regulations, the emirate has now introduced new regulations for off-plan property development. 

According to a report by Gulf News, it will no longer be possible to sell any off-plan property that has not been registered. Under the new regulations, all off-plan properties will first have to be registered with the land department. 

Chairman of Shefield Real Estate, Abu Ali Malek Shroff believes the changes would help investors. 'The new law aims to help regulate the emirate's booming real estate sector and boost investor confidence in the property market,' he said, and added that the new law will help settle any disputes as it will provide proof of ownership documents. 

In a talk with Property Wire, Marzooq Al Rashdan, vice-chairman and managing director of boutique developer Abyaar expressed the opinion that the new rules are in everybody's interests and will arrest the speculative and excessive price inflation that the market witnessed in the recent past.

http://news.dubaiventure.co.uk/news_detail.php?nid=20000163


----------



## Pleth

Can anybody give me an idea of which buildings will be completed and ready for take over from now on till 01.01.2009?


----------



## agod

999bbb said:


> Just spoke to my mate who has £1/4m on deposit at HBOS and he is trying to look at alternatives very quickly, it is worrying no doubt
> 
> Is that money safe I can't tell him it is after LEHMAN collapsing
> 
> What hapens to the deposits/investments at Lehman that people had with
> 
> them ?



You cant beleive the row I had with Natwest this morning, when i tried to take my money out, they have to order it, takes 48 hours, fair enough, okay can i collect from a private room, no, we are not insured, you have to get it all through the Hopper thing on the counter, while they count it, and everyone is looking, and guess which branch, Pecham, brixton or tulse hill, could you imagine getting out of there alive, no service whatsoever, then proceeded to ask me what I wanted it for, and should'nt be so foolish, as they where as sound as a pound, yeah right, then said take a bankers draft, sure that's a worthless bit off paper, if the bank isn't there, all had was a nightmare, so tonight over the phone, i moved it into NSandI easy as pie.

Alan


----------



## 234sale

I have an account with NATWEST, I hate them...

They autorised a dirrect debt that ook my account overdrawn the charged me 30 quid for the unautorised debt. Then a diirect debt could go out costing me another 30quid, and two cheques were not cleared, another 60 quid.

They never informed me by phone or email that I was over drawn.. 

They will not refund any bank charge, that decission has come from the top, even if the charge is their fault.


Now I also have an account with LLoyds TSB,, same thing happened on my UK business account.. My fault that I had gone over drawn... LLoyds refunded and ask that I dont do it again...

My advise,, don't use Natwest. I still have an account with them but I have changed my main account now to Lloyds TSB.. If I take a mortgage in UK I would stay well away from NATWEST..


----------



## Imre

Pleth said:


> Can anybody give me an idea of which buildings will be completed and ready for take over from now on till 01.01.2009?


maybe these, not sure but they have chance:

JLT:
Seef 2 
Seef 3 
Lakepoint 
New Dubai Gate
Liwa Heights (hotel serviced apartments)

Dubai Marina:
Dorra Bay
Bayside Residence
DEC Towers

Burj Downtown:
The Address (Burj Dubai LAke Hotel)
The Address ( Dubai Mall Hotel)

TECOM:
few small buildings + maybe Al Salam Tower

DIFC,Business Bay,SZR,Dubailand,Sports City,City of Arabia:
-

DSO
The Springs +few buildings

Media City,IMPZ:
Arenco Tower
The Crescent


----------



## dlnash

Hey guys,

I was wondering what do ppl think will happen at Cityscape. The market is very slow now and has been for the past two months and everyone is on the sidelines waiting for cityscape. I've also started hearing that the property market has crashed, people are unable to sell their properties and are stuck. 
Has the market really crashed?


----------



## FWIW

If it has crashed then why didn't someone tell me!


----------



## dlnash

actually what I meant was that the market is down, which is the starting of a crash..


----------



## 234sale

dlnash..

http://www.alineah.com/market_analysis.asp

No crash yet,, Sorry to spoil your pick up one cheap dreams..

If you mean that transactions are slow,, yes they are.

If you mean some sellers can't sell a meadows at 2400AED sqft on the built up area.. It doesn't suprise me.


----------



## Mavekris

^^There are some very good deals available in the secondary market.

Some say bcoz of city scape and some say it's ramadan and some say it;s crashed :lol:

There loads of adverts with no premium by good developers like emaar's recent project's launched in the last 5 month's or so


----------



## dlnash

Mavekris said:


> ^^There are some very good deals available in the secondary market.
> 
> Some say bcoz of city scape and some say it's ramadan and some say it;s crashed :lol:
> 
> There loads of adverts with no premium by good developers like emaar's recent project's launched in the last 5 month's or so


Is it worth investing in units launched in the last 5 months with no premium??
Arn't these prices too high, especially in Downtown?


----------



## dlnash

234sale said:


> dlnash..
> 
> http://www.alineah.com/market_analysis.asp
> 
> No crash yet,, Sorry to spoil your pick up one cheap dreams..
> 
> If you mean that transactions are slow,, yes they are.
> 
> If you mean some sellers can't sell a meadows at 2400AED sqft on the built up area.. It doesn't suprise me.


But what about the people who have bought at AED 4000-5000 sq ft.. I don't think they are able to sell their units?

Secondly, what I've heard there are still some more buildings to be launched in Downtown. What price will they launch them at?> Will anyone buy if they launch them at 5,000 +?.. What if they reduce the price for the new launches..? What'll happen to all those units that have been launched during the past 6 months?


----------



## Mavekris

dlnash said:


> Is it worth investing in units launched in the last 5 months with no premium??
> Arn't these prices too high, especially in Downtown?


^^Not really If you look at warsan estates or mushrif etc you get better ones in Jumeirah park,falcon city or arabian ranches.

So i dont really understand the logic behind the pricing.hno::bash:

But i will only go with location location location.

Downtown's recent projects are over priced as of today.


----------



## FWIW

dlnash - maybe this doc will be helpful?

http://www.bhomes.com/uae/pdf_publications/bh_sept.pdf


----------



## 234sale

From the company Better Homes. But you can see a massive floor in the pricing.. 
1. Only is based on listed prices
2. If only a few units available the pricing looks silly.... Look at the trade center prices
3. It relies on acturate data inputed from the staff
4. All apartment sizes are mashed intogether.. A 600 sqft studio would be more expensive that a 3000 sqft 3 bed.
5. Its Better Homes how are always seen as expensive.
6. The buildings vary so much inprice, I live in the Old Town which is very different from Residencies price or the Old Town Island.

I only really watch DIFC, Burj and BB district prices


----------



## FWIW

234sale said:


> From the company Better Homes. But you can see a massive floor in the pricing..
> 1. Only is based on listed prices
> 2. If only a few units available the pricing looks silly.... Look at the trade center prices
> 3. It relies on acturate data inputed from the staff
> 4. All apartment sizes are mashed intogether.. A 600 sqft studio would be more expensive that a 3000 sqft 3 bed.
> 5. Its Better Homes how are always seen as expensive.
> 6. The buildings vary so much inprice, I live in the Old Town which is very different from Residencies price or the Old Town Island.
> 
> I only really watch DIFC, Burj and BB district prices


But it is free!:lol:
Maybe RERA should collate and publish data going forwards?


----------



## 234sale

Ive been tracking prices for the last 6 months using Bhomes, Asteco, Landmark and Sherwoods data..

But this off plan registration will be excellent primary data of selling prices..

I expect one of the reasons they wanted everything registered.. I heard a 350 AED fee.. Transfers will be also a set fee before completion.
Registration with Land Department will happen on completion on last selling price or OP if not transfered.









Just from my recording of data


----------



## mackie1964

Thanks for Trying, beating the scotts would have cheered me up:banana:


----------



## docc

Morten_Denmark said:


> Hi Mackie
> 
> I will cheer you up a bit - a danish team took 1 point in Champions League against Celtic last night - isnt that wonderful ?
> 
> And by the way - I cancelled selling an apartment in the Marina and rented it out instead to a good price. The real estate agent said that *she now was somewhat bullish on the Marina apartments. (as a sales agent she was supposed to tell me that I should sell now).* So your Torch apartment there are better than the money being in the bank


Morten,

Can you elaborate a little more please? Did she say why she thought that the prices were going to rise? Any specific reason?


----------



## Morten_Denmark

docc said:


> Morten,
> 
> Can you elaborate a little more please? Did she say why she thought that the prices were going to rise? Any specific reason?


Hi Docc

A nice female agent from Oryx I have to admit - she recently came back from a long holiday. I dont think anybody will know what will happen - but she tought prices will be higher next year. No reasons. Sorry


----------



## foxy

Hold on thight Mackie as this too shall pass.

Morten, why did you change your mind and decide to rent instead of selling.

And finally if you were an international investor looking for safety does the Dubai property market fit the bill?


----------



## Morten_Denmark

foxy said:


> Hold on thight Mackie as this too shall pass.
> 
> Morten, why did you change your mind and decide to rent instead of selling.
> 
> And finally if you were an international investor looking for safety does the Dubai property market fit the bill?


A moment of insanety and greed  The moment was good for selling as the apartment became vacant. But the rent income was tempting also. 

Honestly, I dont know what will happen in Dubai - one thing is fundamentals and another thing is psychology - I dont know which one is the strongest driver.

I believe strongly that certain parts in Dubai will in 10 years time from now be a very desirable place to live (and own). If there will be a correction along this line it doesnt matter as long I get a decent rent coming in and will even pay down my loan in the bank. 

Did you know that safe heaven is now 3 months goverment bonds - yield 0.277%. This is similar to go cash and put the money under your pillow. 

No, unfortunately I dont think foreign investors put the money into dubai - they are in deeeep chock right now.


----------



## foxy

^^ 
Morten I am convinced that psychology is the dominant force (sometimes backed by fundamentals). Greed and fear. 2 powerful motives.

Yes I did know that the 3 month US treasury bond is considered the safest. Found out today and now you are telling me, so it must be true!

Regarding the current financial situation, the guy from Barclays could hardly contain himself when being interviewed about the Lehman business he had just bought. Opportunity for some.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

Morten_Denmark said:


> Hi Mackie
> 
> I will cheer you up a bit - a danish team took 1 point in Champions League against Celtic last night - isnt that wonderful ?
> 
> And by the way - I cancelled selling an apartment in the Marina and rented it out instead to a good price. The real estate agent said that she now was somewhat bullish on the Marina apartments. (as a sales agent she was supposed to tell me that I should sell now). So your Torch apartment there are better than the money being in the bank


I have heard that it is alot harder to sell a unit if it is rented out... Is this true? Wouldnt it be beneficial for me to rent out a unit, pocket the cash and then put it up for sale?


----------



## OmarPERU

Old Town Lovin... said:


> I have heard that it is alot harder to sell a unit if it is rented out... Is this true? Wouldnt it be beneficial for me to rent out a unit, pocket the cash and then put it up for sale?


You're supposed to give the money of the rent to the buyer, from the days left in the contract. And being the buyer, you're stuck with a contract that may not be very beneficial. However, it's not impossible to sell a rented apartment.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Old Town Lovin... said:


> I have heard that it is alot harder to sell a unit if it is rented out... Is this true? Wouldnt it be beneficial for me to rent out a unit, pocket the cash and then put it up for sale?


I think it is 10 times harder to sell a unit if it is rented out - unless if there is 6-8 months left of the 2 or 3 years where the tennant can not be evicted. I think many buyers now are end users which is good for Dubai. Because it is end-users it is a problem if you have a tennant.


----------



## 234sale

Rental cobtracts are pretty much unbreakable unless tenant agrees. . good tennants are hard to find.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

234sale said:


> Rental cobtracts are pretty much unbreakable unless tenant agrees. . good tennants are hard to find.


End of the day it will be good for all that tennants are looked after.


----------



## NajamD

I think that Dubai property market will suit end users more in the future and will eventually drive speculators out. The introduction of new property laws will help. The current slowing dpown of the market may indicate just that. This will also be good for the long term future of Dubai Real Estate.


----------



## IISinbadII

NajamD said:


> I think that Dubai property market will suit end users more in the future and will eventually drive speculators out. The introduction of new property laws will help. *The current slowing dpown of the market* may indicate just that. This will also be good for the long term future of Dubai Real Estate.


There is a seasonal slowdown during summer and market improves as the weather cools down. Is there any proof of a real slowdown beyond that?


----------



## Morten_Denmark

IISinbadII said:


> There is a seasonal slowdown during summer and market improves as the weather cools down. Is there any proof of a real slowdown beyond that?


Actually there has been a very small decrease (few percentages or so) in prices over summer the last years - we have discussed it earlier. But this summer shows a small increase - so the summer activity certainly does not point on any future slow-down.


----------



## IISinbadII

Morten_Denmark said:


> Actually there has been a very small decrease (few percentages or so) in prices over summer the last years - we have discussed it earlier. But this summer shows a small increase - so the summer activity certainly does not point on any future slow-down.


Exactly. I have also notised a modest increse in prices and rents over this summer.


----------



## NajamD

IISinbadII said:


> Exactly. I have also notised a modest increse in prices and rents over this summer.


We will have to wait till the weather cools down and the end of Ramadan to see which way the market turns. I still believe that in the short to medium term, Dubai will continue to boom, albeit at a slightly less pace than we have seen recently. Anyhow, being an investor myself, I would like to think exactly as Morten has stated and wouldn't even want to think of a downturn!


----------



## BenjiDXB

Morten_Denmark said:


> I think it is 10 times harder to sell a unit if it is rented out - unless if there is 6-8 months left of the 2 or 3 years where the tennant can not be evicted. I think many buyers now are end users which is good for Dubai. Because it is end-users it is a problem if you have a tennant.


I didnt now about any rule, that said that a tenant cannot be evicted for 2 or 3 years...where does it say so ? As the contracts are usually valid for one year, can t the landlord just inform the tenant after 10 months that he is not interested to renew the contract for another year ?


----------



## IISinbadII

BenjiDXB said:


> I didnt now about any rule, that said that a tenant cannot be evicted for 2 or 3 years...where does it say so ? As the contracts are usually valid for one year, can t the landlord just inform the tenant after 10 months that he is not interested to renew the contract for another year ?


^^ No. Even if you have a 1 year contract, normally you can not evict the tenant for 3 years. For the first 2 years rent has to remain the same. For the 3rd year you are allowed to increase the rent by a % specified by the government.


----------



## IISinbadII

NajamD said:


> Anyhow, being an investor myself, I would like to think exactly as Morten has stated and wouldn't even want to think of a downturn!


Yes, but an investor should know that property has cycles. Dubai boom cannot continue like this forever. There could be ups and downs. However, property appreciates over long term. 

Having said that, I think there are a lot of reasons for this boom to continue.


----------



## mackie1964

High Times said:


> No i am not making any recommendations to anyone.
> 
> I am personaly buying UK Bank stocks as they are flat on there arse at the moment and out of favour with the public and fund managers.
> 
> Banks have intrinsic value as capitalist econemies *can not* function without them. It's that simple.
> 
> I am happy to leave the funds invested for 5 years+ so what happens next week or next year is of no consequence to me whatsoever, apart from offering further oportunities to buy more.
> 
> Lesson 2 - There is a big difference between Investment Banks and Commercial Banks.
> 
> UK Banks are not set up like traditional Investment Banks in the US. Before 1995 (ish), the US Fed had a law seperating Banks from Investment Banks and when this law was relaxed the floodgates were open and the abuse began. We dont have that problem in the UK but Sky News wont tell you that cause fear sells.
> 
> This is an Investment Bank problem, pure and simple.


:master: :master:


----------



## sarbaze tabarestan

is it possible to buy land?
or possible to buy houses?


----------



## NEWUSER

porshe911 said:


> around 1000 psf


that's it?!


----------



## Philippa C

234sale said:


> Downtown is difficult as compairing the towers facilities has to be considered. The Address, South Ridge, 29 Bolvard, Old Town, Old Town Island are all excellent towers. It would take too much time to do everything, even though we all have a rough Idea.
> 
> How does the psf for Old Town Island compare to some of the towers? It's near the souq and has a lovely feel but you may not have a good view.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## ILOVE-DUBAI

The global financial crisis proved the strenght of the GCC-UAE economies and reflected it/them as safe investment oasis.


----------



## Garden city

Guy have a look at this site :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

www.offplan.ae

Looks like it is being run by Damac in the background. I did a simple property search for off plan properties which will get completed in Q1 2009 and all Damac towers like Ocean Heights, Damac heights etc. showed up which we know are not going to complete in 2009. Also the featured towers on the frontpage are all Damac's

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious


----------



## Garden city

Guys i wanted some advice from you all. I am planning to buy a property in Discovery Gardens and want to rent it out. For people who are already renting out their properties or have some experience with it, can you please let me know of some gotchas or catches that i need to be careful about. Can i ask my tenant to leave after he/she completes one year of stay because i need to move into the property?

Any tips would be greatly apprciated.


----------



## ILOVE-DUBAI

Dear All

Please try to think with me and answer this question:
If for any reason a developer stopped the construction process during shoring and pilling stage, what amount of money will the investors will get back and how much will be deducted for the work done??????
Please discuss


----------



## Morrismarina

ILOVE-DUBAI said:


> Dear All
> 
> Please try to think with me and answer this question:
> If for any reason a developer stopped the construction process during shoring and pilling stage, what amount of money will the investors will get back and how much will be deducted for the work done??????
> Please discuss


You'd get back what you'd paid so far less the cost of the work. (Assuming of course your funds were in escrow).


----------



## ILOVE-DUBAI

Sure with the assumption of an escrow account.
So acctually the investor will lose the value of the work done without being compensated from anybody (RERA or developer)?


----------



## aka_Smith

Garden city said:


> Guy have a look at this site :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> www.offplan.ae
> 
> Looks like it is being run by Damac in the background. I did a simple property search for off plan properties which will get completed in Q1 2009 and all Damac towers like Ocean Heights, Damac heights etc. showed up which we know are not going to complete in 2009. Also the featured towers on the frontpage are all Damac's


I get schon and omniyat on the front page, doubt it is run by damac.


----------



## laidback74

*Rumble in the Global Jungle*

Hi Everyone,

With all the talk about a global liquidity squeeze, I had a question: 

When a developer has to account for the financing for a new project, they typically depend on a percentage being provided through their own capital base (maybe 15% or so to initially buy the land on a long term payment plan), combined with what the investors in their project will put up (people like us) once it's launched. The rest of the money comes through bank loans (the bank will mainly be paying for the construction, whereas the investors' money goes into making the rest of the payments on the land, miscellaneous expenses, etc). Also, of the developer has already secured mortgage financing for their project, then investors can get a loan for the project through the approved bank, since this is already in place. I don't think a bank, once it has gone ahead and agreed to provide mortgage loans on an approved project, will cancel the deal and back out because of the credit crunch. 

So I assume that projects that have already begun construction have their construction and mortgage loans already secured. If the credit crunch occurs in the UAE from this point onwards, wouldn't only newly announced projects be getting affected due to banks tightening up their lending policies? If that is the case, wouldn't that be a good thing for the real estate market here, as it forces future supply to get curbed, thus reducing chances of over-supply?

I'm obviously over-simplifying a more complex process but am I on the right track or completely bonkers?


----------



## makerian

ILOVE-DUBAI said:


> The global financial crisis proved the strenght of the GCC-UAE economies and reflected it/them as safe investment oasis.



The regional economies have their own share of economic and financial structural deficiencies. Over-exposure of banks to realty markets is one that stares you straight in the face. Pegged to the Dollar, most of these currency lack the ability to set their own monetary policy. Lack of transparency in relation to govt stats, real estate transactions and public company businesses has so far not proved to hinder growth. 

An article was posted on this forum about the debt concerns of Dubai PLC. Made for interesting reading. 

Think we are completely immune to any crisis? Let's hope you right. Investors, however would do well to be mindful of these issues. As always, diversifying your assets makes good common sense.


----------



## makerian

Garden city said:


> Guys i wanted some advice from you all. I am planning to buy a property in Discovery Gardens and want to rent it out. For people who are already renting out their properties or have some experience with it, can you please let me know of some gotchas or catches that i need to be careful about. Can i ask my tenant to leave after he/she completes one year of stay because i need to move into the property?
> 
> Any tips would be greatly apprciated.


One of the forumers on ssc set up this website: www.discogardens.com for owners and renters in Discovery Gardens. Good place to chat with owners or people already living there. 

There have been well-documented cases of tenants refusing to leave after a period of one year and taking their landlords to the rent committee over the matter. Tenants have prevailed and the general understanding is that tenants have a right to stay in leased premises for period of three years. Two year without increase and the third year an increase as per law. 

To circumvent this, I (without guilt) included a clause in the Tenancy agreement whereby the tenant agreed to vacate the property at the end of his one-year lease. The lease expires next February and it remains to be seen whether this clause would be effective for me (if he decided to take me to the Rent Commitee)


----------



## Morrismarina

ILOVE-DUBAI said:


> Sure with the assumption of an escrow account.
> So acctually the investor will lose the value of the work done without being compensated from anybody (RERA or developer)?


Yes you will lose the cost of the work done, unless the developer is very generous and repays you. This would be very unlikely indeed, but would depend on the reason why the project was cancelled and how much cash the developer has available - 99.99% of off-plan developers would not want to start digging into their own funds to help you out. And RERA is only a regulatory, not a compensating body -there is no compensation fund. But that's the risk of off-plan investment. The escrow account simply protects you from the developer hiving off your monies for something other than the construction of the specific development. So you could easily end up with having paying half of your purchase price and only having ownership of a half completed building - not much value in that. (Or even you could have paid 90% with only 90% of the building completed.) Also very difficult to get another construction company to finish off the build. So the fact that there is an escrow facility in place and RERA providing some kind of regulation is no guarantee you'll not lose all your money. So your choice of developer is crucial when buying off-plan.

If you're nervous about all this, then it makes sense to buy an already built property which, bizarrely in Dubai, can often cost no more than one bought off-plan. :nuts:


----------



## Smokeey

Guys, I've been offered a 'buy-back' investment for a project in Dubai, whereby the developer guarantees to buy back your apartment from you at 25% premium in 6 months. From the preliminary info I've received so far, the agent has said that:

- the developer is a 'well-known' local developer in Dubai (although they haven't confirmed who the developer actually is yet).
- the project has an escrow account in place
- I will receive a PDC (what is this?) and MOU stating that the developer will buyback the apartment with a 25% premium on my deposit after 6 months.

I'm usually of the opinion that if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. However with an Escrow account in place would that offer any safeguards in the event that the developer mysteriously disappears?!

Would be interested to hear anyone's thoughts/opinions on these 'buy-back' offers, especially if anyone has actually taken part in one.


----------



## 9714

^^
does sound a bit fishy. i am sure they would have revealed the developer if it was all above board.


----------



## docc

I've actually been offered quite a few "Buy Back" offers myself; however i've yet to invest in one. Most of them are usually in the range of 2-5 Million with a 40-60% profit return in 6 months. PDC is a post dated cheque. Some of the people i have spoken to have told me how transparent the whole thing is. Infact, i was asked to bring my lawyer along to read the contract before signing it. Everything is clear and straight forward and apparently, there is no risk involved. I tend to be wary of things that just seem too good to be true; but this is Dubai and a lot of people have made money this way.

Basically, the developer starts construction with your money and floats the project. He then pays you back in 6 months as promised. If i do get into one, i'll let you know.


----------



## Smokeey

9714 said:


> ^^
> does sound a bit fishy. i am sure they would have revealed the developer if it was all above board.





docc said:


> I've actually been offered quite a few "Buy Back" offers myself; however i've yet to invest in one. Most of them are usually in the range of 2-5 Million with a 40-60% profit return in 6 months. PDC is a post dated cheque. Some of the people i have spoken to have told me how transparent the whole thing is. Infact, i was asked to bring my lawyer along to read the contract before signing it. Everything is clear and straight forward and apparently, there is no risk involved. I tend to be wary of things that just seem too good to be true; but this is Dubai and a lot of people have made money this way.
> 
> Basically, the developer starts construction with your money and floats the project. He then pays you back in 6 months as promised. If i do get into one, i'll let you know.


Thanks for the advice guys. Well I've emailed the agent and he is going to get back to me with the full details of the project including developer name etc. The agent mentioned that the deposit will go straight to the developer and not into an escrow account otherwise the buyback wouldn't work, which make me a little worried. Are there any safeguards that will protect me if the developer disappears into the night?!

Also Docc, could I ask if there was any particular reason that you didn't go for any of the buy-backs you were offered? Also I didn't quite get the bit about floating the project - could you elaborate? Just keen to find out how these developers expect to make money on these deals!


----------



## docc

Like i said, it sounded too good to be true. I decided to invest that capital in areas which i knew would give me great capital appreciation albeit not quite that fast! I still haven't decided if i should take a shot at it or not. The developer mentioned that everything is transparent and legal and that there really isn't scope for any issues. Ofcourse, he's trying to convince me so he has to say that 

What i meant about floating the project is that since the offer to is of an off-plan project; at this point the developer is really just collecting the funds to begin construction. He hasn't really marketed the project and done any public launches. Once he has the funds, he will officially launch it and hence pay us back with the deposits he gets.

I would personally go and meet the developer and do a complete background check on them before giving them a single penny. I've been offered deals where i put in 5 M and get back 9 M in just 5 months. I don't think it could get sweeter than that!


----------



## Smokeey

Thanks alot Docc - thats a big help kay:

Also on the PDC thing, the agent said that the deals that offer post dated cheques are generally considered safer but I don't quite understand why (as you can tell I'm a total n00b!). What would be the benefit of going with a developer that offers a PDC as opposed to one that doesn't?

Also he mentioned that the MOUs would confirm the details of the buy-back offer and would be a sufficient written guarantee that I would get the my money back plus premium as its a legally binding document. Would you agree with that?


----------



## Imre

Morten_Denmark said:


> Does Morgan Stanley and Hermes aka Herbes etc realize the situation ? 70.000 units delivered within the next 12 months in Dubai ? What a joke


and 20.000 units from the DAMAC?

dont worry about the Morgan Stanley, they have not too much left


----------



## BenjiDXB

Old Town Lovin... said:


> Tired of the heat... tired of the dust... tired of the humidity... tired of a slow market... tired of being bombarded with bad news... tired of analysts... tired of negative views from companies about to go bankrupt... tired of two-bit journalists who cannot spell "real estate" but can somehow can predict sudden drops in a strong market... hno:hno:
> 
> Cannot wait for CityScape! Cannot wait for 2012 and tell all these people *"I TOLD YOU SO!!!"* :cheers:
> 
> Summer please end...


Sorry to ask, but what are your hopes concerning Cityscape? Would you be expecting a buying frenzy like during Cityscape in AD ? Thanks...


----------



## 234sale

Just a wild guess for next 12 months

Executive Towers 4000
Marina 8000
JLT 8000
JBR 8000
Downtown Burj 4000
International City 8000 ?
Palm 4000
Jumeriah Gardens = 2000
Others =4000
Total = 50,000 

Thats just a presumption on my part.

If you go buy the DEWA statistics they only connect on average 35,000 residential units a year so this figure seems to make sense.

P.S occupancy of developments is still only 60% many investors holiding holday homes that were bought piror 2006
Like number of etisalat which is double the UAE population.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

234sale said:


> Just a wild guess for next 12 months
> 
> Executive Towers 4000
> Marina 8000
> JLT 8000
> JBR 8000
> Downtown Burj 4000
> International City 8000 ?
> Palm 4000
> Jumeriah Gardens = 2000
> Others =4000
> Total = 50,000
> 
> Thats just a presumption on my part.
> 
> If you go buy the DEWA statistics they only connect on average 35,000 residential units a year so this figure seems to make sense.
> 
> P.S occupancy of developments is still only 60% many investors holiding holday homes that were bought piror 2006
> Like number of etisalat which is double the UAE population.


Good to start up such estimates 234sale. Only two comments - I think the 8000 units in the Marina will be less than half. About JBR this should be zero as everything is completed and I guess this was orginal 5000 apartments. But you are right that many of them are not occupied - but lets concentrate on finished units as this will become to complicated. My estimate on a piece of paper are also around 30.000.


----------



## 234sale

Morten_Denmark said:


> Good to start up such estimates 234sale. Only two comments - I think the 8000 units in the Marina will be less than half. About JBR this should be zero as everything is completed and I guess this was orginal 5000 apartments. But you are right that many of them are not occupied - but lets concentrate on finished units as this will become to complicated. My estimate on a piece of paper are also around 30.000.


My prediction was over estimating, I would suggest by about 20%. like executive towers will only be 3200.. as one tower a hotel and one a office.

I agree as that would be inline with the DEWA figures, As I said usually they connect 35,000 residential units a year.

Just proofs how little research on handover these major companies actually do..


----------



## Morten_Denmark

234sale said:


> My prediction was over estimating, I would suggest by about 20%. like executive towers will only be 3200.. as one tower a hotel and one a office.
> 
> I agree as that would be inline with the DEWA figures, As I said usually they connect 35,000 residential units a year.
> 
> Just proofs how little research on handover these major companies actually do..


I am also looking at general figures as how much man-years you need to build one apartment and then take into account how many construction workers located in Dubai - but I think that the efficiency is hard to predict because of skills, heat and also because they work longer hours compared to other places - but a good estimate is here also 30.000 units. If you can refer to DEWA figures being 35.000 units I think our estimate is much better than the 70.000 units. Hopefully the remaining units needed will come from un-occupied units as we know there are quite a few besides the holyday homes.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

BenjiDXB said:


> Sorry to ask, but what are your hopes concerning Cityscape? Would you be expecting a buying frenzy like during Cityscape in AD ? Thanks...


I do not think that with the current conditions, we will see the craziness of AD's Cityscape... but one can always hope... :cheers:

I am hoping Cityscape will jumpstart the market from the summer slow-down... whether it be due to the summer heat, global recession, constant negative news, new laws, corruption scandals, blah, blah, blah... 

Smiling faces and positive people talking about new launches... That would be nice...

234Sale - how are you getting these estimates? for example - in 8000 for JLT are you simply estimating 200 units times 40 buildings? And where did you get the DEWA information? Once again, always thanks for all your info!


----------



## Imre

2 plots of Dubai Marina for sale

Dubai Marina - Freehold
Permission: G+ Unlimited (Residential+ 5% Shops / Hotel Apts.)
Location: Corner, on 2 roads, Prime Location
Plot Area: 37,500 Sq. ft,
Built Up Area: Unlimited Sq. ft,
Total Selling Price: AED 375,000,000 
Payment: 100% Paid


Dubai Marina - Freehold
Permission: G+31 (5 Star Hotel / Res.)
Plot Area: 36,000 Sq. ft,
Built Up Area: 323,000 Sq. ft,
Location: Corner, Full Marina & Park View
Total Selling Price: AED 242,000,000 (750 /Sq. ft)
Payment: 100% Paid


----------



## docc

234sale, how come you estimated 4000 units in DBD? As far as i know there are only 2 projects handing over in 2009 i.e. Burj Views and The Lofts.

Also, 4000 units on The Palm? As far as i know, only Golden Mile, Tiara, Oceana and Marina Residences are going to be handed over. Any others that i might have missed?

I don't see more than 25,000 units being delivered next year in my opinion.


----------



## IISinbadII

234sale said:


> Just a wild guess for next 12 months
> 
> Executive Towers 4000
> Marina 8000
> JLT 8000
> JBR 8000
> Downtown Burj 4000
> International City 8000 ?
> Palm 4000
> Jumeriah Gardens = 2000
> Others =4000
> Total = 50,000


You have to add Discovery Gardens to the list.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

*Just a guess until end of 2009*

Pls correct me where I am wrong and I will edit 

Just a guess untill end 2009

Executive Towers = 3000
Marina = 3000
JLT = 3000
Business Bay = 0
JBR = 0
JVS = 0
Downtown Burj = 2000
International City = 4000 ??
Palm = 2000
Jumeriah Gardens = 1000
Discovery Gardens = 12000 (Sinbad => aprox half of 25.000 until end of 2009)
Others = 5000 ??
Total = 37,000


----------



## malec

Imre said:


> Dubai Marina - Freehold
> Permission: G+ Unlimited (Residential+ 5% Shops / Hotel Apts.)
> Location: Corner, on 2 roads, Prime Location
> Plot Area: 37,500 Sq. ft,
> Built Up Area: Unlimited Sq. ft,
> Total Selling Price: AED 375,000,000
> Payment: 100% Paid


G+unlimited corner plot? I thought there are none left, unless it's outside the tallest block


----------



## IISinbadII

Morten_Denmark said:


> Pls correct me where I am wrong and I will edit
> 
> Just a guess untill end 2009
> 
> Discovery Gardens = 2000 ??


Discovery Gardens consists of 290 new buildings with 25,412 apartments. Some have already been handed over. Expect half of the project to complete by end 2009. So for your estimation: 

Discovery Gardens = 12,000


----------



## bizzybonita

No more frustration over project delays 


September 24, 2008, 23:39


Dubai: Investors in Dubai's property sector will no longer have to bear with frustrating project delays, thanks to new laws that hold developers accountable.

The introduction of Law 13 and Law 14 aims to increase transparency and honesty in Dubai's property sector, according to senior officials at Dubai's Land department.

"After registration and approval, all the property information is entered into the system. We will know all details about the projects. There is no reason for delays," said Mohammad Sultan Thani, Assistant Director-General of the Land Department, during a media roundtable yesterday.

Law 13 requires all developers to pre-register off-plan properties with the land department to create a full database of property transactions. 

Law 14, or the mortgage law, makes it easier for banks to secure proof of land titles. 


Both laws came into effect last week.

"Law 13 is very good for the market," said Marwan Bin Galita, CEO of the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera).

The main objective of Law 13 is to ensure developers register all projects before they launch sales.

"No one can release a project unless all the approvals are in place," Bin Galita said. Under this law, approval must be sought from about five specified government bodies, including the RTA, Dewa, Dubai Municipality, Rera and the Land Department.

Sultan Butti Bin Mejrin, Director-General of the Land Department, said action will be taken against developers violating the law.

Currently, some developers demand a deposit on the unit before a sales and purchase agreement is given. Law 13 states that as soon as the deposit is paid, the sales and purchase agreement should be given immediately.

The new law also stipulates an acceptable increase in the floorplan of a unit. On completion, if the floorplan is smaller than originally agreed, the buyer is entitled to compensation.

Under Law 8, developers have six months from registration to start construction on a project. And developers are not allowed to cancel a project without first informing the Land department.

In line with efforts to increase transparency, the property court is set to begin operations in the first week of October.

Bin Mejrin estimated that 96 cases have been solved with mediation in the Land Department so far.

"The biggest challenge is collecting the data. The other challenge is the behaviour of the investor," Bin Galita said, referring to those investors who still do transactions with unregistered developers.

Bin Galita also said that the new rent cap will be completed and announced by the end of October.

All three officials said the global financial credit crunch, negative market reports or the recent wave of investigations in Dubai will not damage the market in any way.

"I still have confidence in this market," Bin Galita said.

Around Dh200 billion worth of transactions have been registered so far within the Land department.

Real estate

Black and white

Registered developers 826Registered projects 1,624Registered brokers 4,154Certified brokers 1,300Registered broker offices 1,772Authorised banks 34Registered contracts 2,176

How to buy

1) Decide what property to buy.2) Check it is a registered developer, with an approved project.3) Check trust account is in place.4) If you want an agent, check that the agent is registered.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Bizzy stop doing this copy paste of articles instead better post the link


----------



## Morten_Denmark

IISinbadII said:


> Discovery Gardens consists of 290 new buildings with 25,412 apartments. Some have already been handed over. Expect half of the project to complete by end 2009. So for your estimation:
> 
> Discovery Gardens = 12,000



Thanks Sinbad - that was quite a lot. I am editing in #7279. We are still somewhat below the 70.000 units.


----------



## Richard Head

Mavekris said:


> ^^Bizzy stop doing this copy paste of articles instead better post the link


Yeah, because scrolling down past an article you don't want to read is just soooooooooooooo difficult and tedious. Makes my mouse ache. hno:hno:

So that's 3 of us who have wasted a post now. Don't you all know there is a world shortage of bandwidth. Stop it.


----------



## 234sale

Maybe a negative effect as well

1. How many residences have been demolished or vacated for master plan modification, Jebal Ali Village, Satwa and Jumeriah, Guess 1000
2. Impact of one family one villa rule, I know many companies have been evicted from villas and must find apartments.


----------



## dlnash

Morten_Denmark said:


> Pls correct me where I am wrong and I will edit
> 
> Just a guess untill end 2009
> 
> Executive Towers = 3000
> Marina = 3000
> JLT = 3000
> Business Bay = 0
> JBR = 0
> JVS = 0
> Downtown Burj = 2000
> International City = 4000 ??
> Palm = 2000
> Jumeriah Gardens = 1000
> Discovery Gardens = 12000 (Sinbad => aprox half of 25.000 until end of 2009)
> Others = 5000 ??
> Total = 37,000


It would be interesting to have a similar estimate like this for the office units as well..


----------



## 234sale

Morten_Denmark said:


> Pls correct me where I am wrong and I will edit
> 
> Just a guess untill end 2009
> 
> Executive Towers = 3000
> Marina = 3000
> JLT = 3000
> Business Bay = 3000 _Executive Towers_
> JBR = 0
> JVS = 0
> Jumeriah Triangle = ? _The Villas maybe complete_
> Downtown Burj = 2000
> International City = 4000 ??
> Tecom A,B,C = ?
> Silicon Oasis = ?
> Palm = 2000
> Jumeriah Gardens = 1000
> Discovery Gardens = 12000 (Sinbad => aprox half of 25.000 until end of 2009)
> DIFC = 2000
> Others * = 5000 ??
> Total = 42,000


*Emirati Owned Projects, DIP ie Green Community, Motor City, Mirdif
Added DIFC


----------



## IISinbadII

legal eagle said:


> Look at JLT commercial. Plenty of stuff there can be picked up at 1500.ft2, in fact I know some going at much less then this.
> 
> Once completed if your JLT commercial rents at 250 dhms/ ft2 and is sold on for a yield of say 8% to the next investor it means you sell it for 3125 dhms/ ft2
> 
> Similar stuff in residential too.


Basically Short-term (1-5 years), areas like Dubai Marina, Burj Dubai complex, JLT, Greens and Views, Discovery Gardens, etc. continue to be attractive, IMO. Anything along Sh. Zayed Rd/Metro line. And this has been my view since 2006. 

In the Long-term (5-10 years), developments along Emirates Rd that are close to future theme parks (Dubailand) and some good towers in Business Bay could end up being good investments provided you could buy them at a discount.


----------



## 234sale

I heard the CEO on the radio saying he made returns of 14% for the last 3 years.

I thought to myself,, that springs that I bought 2005 and sold 2007 made 140%, plus I got to live in it.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

IISinbadII said:


> Basically Short-term (1-5 years), areas like Dubai Marina, Burj Dubai complex, JLT, Greens and Views, Discovery Gardens, etc. continue to be attractive, IMO. Anything along Sh. Zayed Rd/Metro line. And this has been my view since 2006.
> 
> In the Long-term (5-10 years), developments along Emirates Rd that are close to future theme parks (Dubailand) and some good towers in Business Bay could end up being good investments provided you could buy them at a discount.


*Short term - *Agreed... Anything in the short term areas you have stated will do well in the next few years with Burj Downtown, Business Bay and Dubai Marina leading the way...

*Long term - *I still like anything with by the water... Palms, Waterfront and still the Marina... Its nice to goto amusement parks, but most people will always like to live by the water... Sea / beach water should be preferred to man made ponds... This is based on the assumption that by then, most investors will hopefully be end-users / landlords... 

*Legal eagle - *Agreed with you 100%... if a correction comes, the flippers will get crushed... 5000-6000 off plan for Burj Downtown vs. 3000 psf for completed projects in BD... seems like a relatively simple choice...


----------



## IISinbadII

Old Town Lovin... said:


> *Legal eagle - *Agreed with you 100%... if a correction comes, the flippers will get crushed... 5000-6000 off plan for Burj Downtown vs. 3000 psf for completed projects in BD... seems like a relatively simple choice...


That 3000 psf for completed projects in Burj Dubai complex is a bargain..... it wont last long.


----------



## iced

*Expensive*

he cheapest place to live is IC where if you buy a studio it is 500k. A villa is around 2.5 million. What kind of salary do you need to afford these even with a mortgage?? 

50-100% is not going to happen in JLT even now in the next 12 months due to the rapid appreciation over the last 12 months. You need someone to buy from you at these prices and that will not happen.

It is people who have already bought with completed projects that are sittin comfortably but new entrants are diminishing. due to the lack of transparency and statistics it is really hard to get a true picture. 

IC is full of middle income people including a lot of single/couple western expats. DG will probably be the same. Now these are at the bottom of the scale in cost so i a bewildered who can afford to buy or rent at such prices. It appears that the average salary in dubai must be at least 40-50k per month for this to be possible.

I dont think that will be the average. also rents are so expensive that it cannot go on and i think that we a distorted picture. The rents are for new tenants and not existing ones who will have much cheaper rents. 

Also the villa families i think are going to commute to dubai from place like Al Ain/Dubai road since they can get villas there cheaper and the raod is being developed into a bigger highway. 

I really would be interested to hear what type of person is a first timer of a completed property here who is going to pay 3 million for a villa. My guess is that it is someone from the west with a salary of 70K plus. Now thats for a small villa.

Am i missing something??? or am just poor


----------



## iced

IISinbadII said:


> That 3000 psf for completed projects in Burj Dubai complex is a bargain..... it wont last long.


for a dbd project you will have people who have bought at 1k, 2k and 3k+ in the same building. the early buyers will be winners but the later buyers ahve a good chance to be losers.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

^^^^ *Iced -* I dont know what the income levels are... but in your example above, it will not require 40-50K monthly salary to live in IC or DG... You can purchase the 500K studio for 10% down and about 5% in fees (ie, agency, bank, transfer, etc etc)... You would need about 75K upfront and your mortgage will be less than 4K per month (over 20 years)... Hopefully you will get about 15-20% annual appreciation... DG is going for about twice as much so just double the math in this situation... Depending on your job, you may be able to just take out a personal loan for the 75K upfront... 

Doesnt take 40-50K monthly salary to live in the areas... And in a couple of years, and no correction, you will be sitting pretty in that investment of yours... :banana:

Poor is a very relative term... Good Luck...


----------



## 234sale

I need to rent 10 studios in Discovery G,, I cant find anything in DG for less than 70K..for 466 sqft..
Thats 150AED sqft

With all the villa issues I can see apartment rents going towards 175 -200AED sqft by the end of the year.


----------



## docc

Well, with the one villa - one family rule, there will be a huge demand for IC and DG. Pretty soon, they are going to put a limit on the number of people living in an apartment too. I guess all these people will move to Ajman where there are hundreds of towers in the pipeline and all these are quite affordable at the moment i.e. 450-550/Sft. I guess this will be a obvious boost for Ajman and the other northern emirates.

As for te Off-plan vs completed property, lets just take Business Bay as an analogy. Many people today choose to prefer to purchase at upwards of 3000/Sft direct from developer simply because they can go by a payment plan and not have to put down a big chunk of cash upfront.

Same goes for BD. If you want a ready apartment, you have to pay around 2.5-3M for a 1 BR apartment. If you buy off-plan even at 5000/Sft, you only pay 5% upfront and then go by payment plan. Yes, you are paying considerably higher prices, but alteast you're paying it over a period of time rather than all of it right now.


----------



## 234sale

OTL, I earn 35K no comission, set salary.
I pay 165,000 AED for a Old Town one bed..

Dubai = salary - rent cost
35,000 - 13,750 = 21,250 Gross Income after rent
I see it as equilivent 40% Tax

Now if I was living in Central London, Renting in a 1000sqft 1bed that would cost how much? Lets be conservative and say 100,000 AED a year including council tax

London = salary - tax - rent cost
35,000 - (Income Tax 25%) = 26,250
26,250 - 8333 = 17,917 AED gross

I would be hard pushed to find a luxury 1000sqft apartment in London for less than 10,000 a month.

On the Luxury end, Dubai still has a long way to go... IMO


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

^^^^ Rent is ridiculously expensive in our area... I rented my first 2.5 years here in Dubai... The biggest mistake I ever made... Wont ever repeat that again... Your monthly rent is around what the mortgage for my Old Town unit is... 

Dubai will always be better for expats as we pay little to zero taxes... Back home, i would pay roughly 28% (income tax), 7% sales tax, 10% (property tax)... And I think there is one or more taxes I have forgotten... 

But back home, there arent crazy prices like there is here... take a look at what 1Mil Dirhams can buy back home for me... vs the fact that 1MIL dirhams cannot even buy 1bed in DG... :nuts::nuts: 

http://www.urbanliving.com/developments.cfm

As far as luxury, Dubai has a long way to go... A few extravagent hotels are meaningless.. But then again, Dubai is just in the beginning...


----------



## 234sale

I love the Old Town as I live 1min walk from Hotel, Shops and 5 min walk from the Palace and now The Address.. 

For the choice of quality establishments I have on my doorstep, I actually think its great value.

I would love to pay less and the cheapest alternative would be South Ridge,, I can get at 140k AED for 1000sqft.

I think I shall be staying renting in the Old Town,, waiting for my off plan units to be handed over.


----------



## docc

Errr, not to sideline the conversation, what do you guys reckon i should ask for a 2 BR apartment high floor, full burj view at the Burj Views (handover in Jan 09) in terms of rent and sale.

I'm not inclined to sell but if the offer is very good, i might reconsider.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

*Docc* - I have the same feeling about my place... I am not inclined to sell but if the right offer came along... But I would probably hold onto Burj Views until completion... There are three significant events that are going to happen from now until then... CityScape, Dubai Mall Opening and Handover... These events should lead to three nice little price bumps for you... 

CityScape might not get you ADs 20% price increases but it should net out something positive... Dubai Mall should add more value into the area... how much of that is priced in, I have no clue... But Handover should bring you the most significant rewards... Just look at what SouthRidge and Marina Promenade did during handover... Pricing went through the roof... 

*234Sale* - You are absolutely correct... I never want to leave Old Town... When I sell my place... I will sell it to someone who will in turn lease it back to me for a year...


----------



## IISinbadII

docc said:


> Errr, not to sideline the conversation, what do you guys reckon i should ask for a 2 BR apartment high floor, full burj view at the Burj Views (handover in Jan 09) in terms of rent and sale.
> 
> I'm not inclined to sell but if the offer is very good, i might reconsider.


No matter how good the offer is, HOLD at least till The Burj completes.


----------



## baba toto

I paid 50% in November 2006 but to date I have not had a contract and the developer has not started any work and I am getting concerned about the delay. Is it a common problem in Jumeirah Village? 

I am thinking of reporting this matter to RERA. What are my options and which is the best course?hno:


----------



## jacobdxb

Hi guys/gals, sorry to ask, but is there an Abu Dhabi investment thread somewhere? I can only find the Al Reem Island investment thread, but it's not very active...


----------



## docc

Yea, i don't plan on selling until after completion. My agent told me that he can get me 240k per year rent for sure but i'm a little doubtful of that. However, if he does manage to pull that off, it would mean a 14% p.a. rental return which would be super!


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ 240k per year rent for a 2 BR high floor, full Burj view is very realistic. Plus expected appreciation over the next 5 to 10 years.


----------



## docc

Hmmm, thanks for the insight. My mortgage payment on this one is 17k/month so i guess the rent should cover the payments plus give me a little spending money. I went to the site and was surprised how CLOSE it is to the mall; i mean by walk it was less than 3-5 minutes. That alone should be a reason for people to want to stay here; atleast thats what i am hoping .

As per my understanding, only Burj Views and The Lofts will be the new ready for occupation towers in DBD in 2009. Is there really demand for more apartments in DBD? I constantly see rental ads for South Ridge so i'm curious if i'm going to have trouble leasing my unit out.

Also, what kind of appreciation over the next 5 years or so are we talking about? My agent told me that i should expect apartments in DBD to touch atleast 7000-8000/Sft over the next 5 years. Seriously?


----------



## iced

Old Town Lovin... said:


> ^^^^ *Iced -* I dont know what the income levels are... but in your example above, it will not require 40-50K monthly salary to live in IC or DG... You can purchase the 500K studio for 10% down and about 5% in fees (ie, agency, bank, transfer, etc etc)... You would need about 75K upfront and your mortgage will be less than 4K per month (over 20 years)... Hopefully you will get about 15-20% annual appreciation... DG is going for about twice as much so just double the math in this situation... Depending on your job, you may be able to just take out a personal loan for the 75K upfront...
> 
> Doesnt take 40-50K monthly salary to live in the areas... And in a couple of years, and no correction, you will be sitting pretty in that investment of yours... :banana:
> 
> Poor is a very relative term... Good Luck...



Sorry i meant that it takes 40-50k for first time buyers to live in a 2 bed family villa. I think that now you need a salary of at least 10k to live in IC and at least 15k to live in DG. These are for studio apartment so if you want a bigger size you need a higher income. I am talking about first time purchasers who also will need to save a deposit and have not already made equity to move up the ladder.

This illustrates to me that most new migrants to dubai will live in these areas and also JLT especially with the enforcement of one family in a villa. So maybe rents will remain high but prices overall will fall or at least stagnate. 

Still believe along with liquidity slowdown, regulation dramatic prices are a thing of the past unless of course public sector works get huge payrises as in the past couple of years.


----------



## iced

234sale said:


> I love the Old Town as I live 1min walk from Hotel, Shops and 5 min walk from the Palace and now The Address..
> 
> For the choice of quality establishments I have on my doorstep, I actually think its great value.
> 
> I would love to pay less and the cheapest alternative would be South Ridge,, I can get at 140k AED for 1000sqft.
> 
> I think I shall be staying renting in the Old Town,, waiting for my off plan units to be handed over.


Yep you guys are lucky living in the old town, great area. Renting there is a great option. Best location in dubai.


----------



## IISinbadII

docc said:


> As per my understanding, only Burj Views and The Lofts will be the new ready for occupation towers in DBD in 2009. Is there really demand for more apartments in DBD? I constantly see rental ads for South Ridge so i'm curious if i'm going to have trouble leasing my unit out.
> 
> Also, what kind of appreciation over the next 5 years or so are we talking about? My agent told me that i should expect apartments in DBD to touch atleast 7000-8000/Sft over the next 5 years. Seriously?


If BD and Marina could not be rented out, what could? You should not have any problem renting out your unit. And if you do it correctly, it should not take more than a few hours to rent out i.e. once you have the keys.

BTW, I agree with your agent........seriously.


----------



## iced

docc said:


> Hmmm, thanks for the insight. My mortgage payment on this one is 17k/month so i guess the rent should cover the payments plus give me a little spending money. I went to the site and was surprised how CLOSE it is to the mall; i mean by walk it was less than 3-5 minutes. That alone should be a reason for people to want to stay here; atleast thats what i am hoping .
> 
> As per my understanding, only Burj Views and The Lofts will be the new ready for occupation towers in DBD in 2009. Is there really demand for more apartments in DBD? I constantly see rental ads for South Ridge so i'm curious if i'm going to have trouble leasing my unit out.
> 
> Also, what kind of appreciation over the next 5 years or so are we talking about? My agent told me that i should expect apartments in DBD to touch atleast 7000-8000/Sft over the next 5 years. Seriously?


Worth hanging on to and renting since your mortgage payments will be covered and this will allow you to ride out any downturns and take advantage of price appreciations


----------



## awc

All projects r delayed in JV,,,with few exceptions,,,i have contract since beginning,,,As RERA wont do anything regarding delay,,,
Better u ask the developer the reason of delay,,,As its considered normal delay from 6 month to one year.


----------



## googly

234sale said:


> ...
> I would love to pay less and the cheapest alternative would be South Ridge,, I can get at 140k AED for 1000sqft.
> ...


Why is South Ridge so cheap? You cant rent an EMAAR apt in the Marina for that amount. Surely, BD aught to be more expensive. Why is rental return in BD lower than in the Marina? 

My real estate agent told me (back in May) that people prefer the Marina over BD which is why rental prices are low there, though capital gain might be more in BD.


----------



## Freestyler

South Ridge has 20/80 plan. What is the premium going on for south ridge these days?


----------



## baba toto

awc said:


> All projects r delayed in JV,,,with few exceptions,,,i have contract since beginning,,,As RERA wont do anything regarding delay,,,
> Better u ask the developer the reason of delay,,,As its considered normal delay from 6 month to one year.


What is the contact you have? All I received is a letter from the developer to confirm location, price, cancellation option..


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

At 7000-8000 psf, that equates to $2,000,000 US Dollars for a 1bd in Burj Downtown, which seems crazy... I cannot see how in 5 years, someone would pay that much for a 1bd... But realistically, that is only 15% annual appreciation (for each of the next 5 years) from today's prices... Seems easy enough...


----------



## dlnash

I dont think anyone would be willing to pay $2million for a 1 bedroom, thats very unrealistic..
I think prices in DBD have reached their highest levels..how high can they go from here?
Also, Emaar has a load of unsold apts in the buildings that they have already launched (residences, views, southridge, lofts, burj park, boulevard .e.t.c... as there are no buyers at these prices.and in order to make DBD a success they have to sell them,,,do you think they might reduce the prices for these units as a limited offer or something ,,,just to get things moving??..
moving forward I think prices in DBD will stabilize between AED 3000-4000 and in dubai marina between AED 2000-3000


----------



## bizzybonita

*MAZAYA REAL ESTATE INDEX *


http://www.mazayaindex.com/English/index.aspx


----------



## awc

I have contract about more than 50 pages ,,,all location,,price,,,laws of dubai,,,payment schedule,,,,etc etc,,,they give me contract when i Paid 15% in beginning,,,and i sign contract in developer office.


----------



## AppleMac

Anyone know what the situation is regarding cancelled projects?

I have an investment in Park Island in the Marina and this project looks to have been mothballed. 

What is the situation regarding investors should Emaar decide that they cannot afford to finish this project?. What do Emaar have to reimburse to the investor? (if anything?) - is it the original off-plan price of the unit or is there any margin for growth in the market since purchase?

And what about those who purchased in the secondary market - would they be reimbursed their purchase price or just the original off-plan sale price?


----------



## googly

AppleMac said:


> ...
> 
> I have an investment in Park Island in the Marina and this project looks to have been mothballed.
> ...


Can you explain what you mean? Park Island is delayed but I think it should be handed over latest by mid-09.


----------



## AppleMac

Well all work seems to have ceased on it. I walk past it most days and have not seen any work for the past week or so. 

Today there were only around 6 people on site clearing up a bit of rubbish.


----------



## IISinbadII

AppleMac said:


> Well all work seems to have ceased on it. I walk past it most days and have not seen any work for the past week or so.
> 
> Today there were only around 6 people on site clearing up a bit of rubbish.


^^ Its hot, its Ramadan and Eid holidays are around the corner. Work is bound to slow down. Park Island is one of the prime developments. It may be late but the prices keep going up.


----------



## IISinbadII

dlnash said:


> I dont think anyone would be willing to pay $2million for a 1 bedroom, thats very unrealistic..
> I think prices in DBD have reached their highest levels..how high can they go from here?
> Also, Emaar has a load of unsold apts in the buildings that they have already launched (residences, views, southridge, lofts, burj park, boulevard .e.t.c... as there are no buyers at these prices.and in order to make DBD a success they have to sell them,,,do you think they might reduce the prices for these units as a limited offer or something ,,,just to get things moving??..
> moving forward I think prices in DBD will stabilize between AED 3000-4000 and in dubai marina between AED 2000-3000


^^ You have no idea what DBD is. The only other location you can compare it with is the Palm. And just to give you an idea, there are members on this board who have property on the Palm, but wish they had bought at DBD. 

Regarding the unsold units....these are small buildings.....just compare them with developments like JBR or Discovery Gardens and you will see what I mean. Emaar holds units so that they can sell them at a premium and not necessarily because there is no buyer. And this has been their practice for a some time now.


----------



## dlnash

I totally agree it is a premium location like the palm... But I don't think prices for apts on the palm are as high as prices in DBD and most of the units in the buildings on the palm got sold before the high price appreciation.. Here the prices have already appreciated too much leaving little room for more appreciation..plus the launch of new buildings is totally out of reach for most ppl (for e.g apts in The Mansion around Aed 7,000 per sq ft and the last launch , the Boulevard, only around 30 units got sold out of the 90 released... If ppl are not buying now, why will they buy next year (when prices are obviously supposed to be higher as the burj will be complete)


----------



## IISinbadII

dlnash said:


> I totally agree it is a premium location like the palm... But I don't think prices for apts here are as high as the palm and most of the units in the buildings got sold before the high price appreciation.. Here the prices have appreciated too much leaving little room for more appreciation.. That's my point


Do this. 
Note down prices for different developments in DBD and write down today's date. Recheck the prices 2 weeks after *Burj Dubai* opens.


----------



## dlnash

IISinbadII said:


> Do this.
> Note down prices for different developments in DBD and write down today's date. Recheck the prices 2 weeks after Burj Dubai opens.


Agreed that prices will get a real boost by the openning of the burj.. 5,000 per sq ft units will go to how much? Secondly, if everyone knows that prices will shoot up then why arnt they capitalizing on this opportunity for e.g why are the recent launches soo dull now??


----------



## AppleMac

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Its hot, its Ramadan and Eid holidays are around the corner. Work is bound to slow down. Park Island is one of the prime developments. It may be late but the prices keep going up.


I know all that, but work is progressing well on many other sites during Ramadan and given Emaar's financial probs with regard to their collapsing share price i just wanted to know what my options were should they be unable to afford to continue.


----------



## IISinbadII

dlnash said:


> Agreed that prices will get a real boost by the openning of the burj.. 5,000 per sq ft units will go to how much? Secondly, if everyone knows that prices will shoot up then why arnt they capitalizing on this opportunity for e.g why are the recent launches soo dull now??


It is hard to put a number but a 20% rise is realistic.


----------



## IISinbadII

AppleMac said:


> I know all that, but work is progressing well on many other sites during Ramadan and given Emaar's financial probs with regard to their collapsing share price i just wanted to know what my options were should they be unable to afford to continue.


Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Properties are the big 3 government backed developers. The day when Emaar is unable to afford to continue its project.......will be "The End" of Dubai story. That day I would advise you to pack up your suitcase and run.......:runaway:


----------



## legal eagle

*current affairs*



IISinbadII said:


> Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Properties are the big 3 government backed developers. The day when Emaar is unable to afford to continue its project.......will be "The End" of Dubai story. That day I would advise you to pack up your suitcase and run.......:runaway:


Sinbad no one will ever doubt your loyalty to Burj Dubai  and I really hope it goes as you say!

In current affairs this is probably worth discussing

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/532755-al-qaeda-planning-to-bomb-atlantis---report

Hope its not really the case and if not, at least it shows the powers that be are monitoring the status quo.


----------



## IISinbadII

legal eagle said:


> Sinbad no one will ever doubt your loyalty to Burj Dubai  and I really hope it goes as you say!


Thanks..

But the question was actually about 'Park Island', a cluster of towers under construction at Dubai Marina and not Burj Dubai.


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## High Times

Sinbad, i respect your views, but i have to say that personally i think DBD is the most overvalued area in Dubai at the moment.

Very good marketing by Emaar and Dubai PLC.

When a correction occurs it will be proportionate in terms of relative overvaluations.

Anything above AED3k psf for uncompleted property is crazy.


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> Sinbad, i respect your views, but i have to say that personally i think DBD is the most overvalued area in Dubai at the moment.
> 
> Very good marketing by Emaar and Dubai PLC.
> 
> When a correction occurs it will be proportionate in terms of relative overvaluations.
> 
> Anything above AED3k psf for uncompleted property is crazy.


I agree with you that the prices Emaar is charging for its new off-plan launches is too much. And I won't recommend anyone to buy from them at AED 6,000 psf when one can purchase from the secondary market much cheaper. 

My point is that completed and near-completion property in DBD is rightly priced for its downtown location.......and as the Burj completes and the area develops there still is a good potential for appreciation. Look at the prices at other places like the The Views and Dubai Marina. 

Compareable properties:

-1 BR in Views 2300 psf.
-1 BR in Marina 2600 psf.
-1 BR in DBD 3700 psf.

Wont you agree that downtown prices should be higher than The Views and Marina?


----------



## Imre

dlnash said:


> Agreed that prices will get a real boost by the openning of the burj.. 5,000 per sq ft units will go to how much? Secondly, if everyone knows that prices will shoot up then why arnt they capitalizing on this opportunity for e.g why are the recent launches soo dull now??


I paid 5000 dhs/sqft in August there and I will sell for 6-7000 soon.

That area still cheap compare to many cities.


----------



## Imre

AppleMac said:


> Anyone know what the situation is regarding cancelled projects?
> 
> I have an investment in Park Island in the Marina and this project looks to have been mothballed.
> 
> What is the situation regarding investors should Emaar decide that they cannot afford to finish this project?. What do Emaar have to reimburse to the investor? (if anything?) - is it the original off-plan price of the unit or is there any margin for growth in the market since purchase?
> 
> And what about those who purchased in the secondary market - would they be reimbursed their purchase price or just the original off-plan sale price?


if you buy resale you can loose the premium what you paid because you get back only the original price and maybe some interest.


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## dubaigreen

Does anyone more on this sudden increase of Hydra Village price in Contracts (Abu Dhabi), almost 26% on sqft price. They sold more than a year ago for around 500 / sqft. Contracts are still not valid, and now Hydra is trying to push up the price to around 750 / sqft in the new Contracts. 

Can they just do this? What is legal here?


----------



## bizzybonita

IISinbadII said:


> Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Properties are the big 3 government backed developers. The day when Emaar is unable to afford to continue its project.......will be "The End" of Dubai story. That day I would advise you to pack up your suitcase and run.......:runaway:


it will be a hard day either :lol:


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## bizzybonita

IF peoples said that DBD are overvalued that because of Burj Dubai close to finish " what about open date " or " after 2 weeks from opening date " . we can called it " a super prices ever " BTW it's abnormal to prime real estate market but normal to others market .

P.S 
"oil producer countries can change the principles of any basic business belive me not anyone from western can say it clearly beacuse all the oil producer countries under war and the gulf area are in the safe side  " 

IF peoples said that PJ are overvalued that because of many landmarks towers ,villas & famous hotels inside one of wondering of the world , man made a island . " still not finish it yet " every 3-6months prices is shootin the moon .

IF peoples said that dubai marina are undervalued that because nothing unusuall on that area . Any country from 1st world have a marina but the different is man made ! oh i all most forget about the tallest block on earth could be do something for prices !

in my opinion 

DBD will increase to limited , To give us that no one from richer peoples can do something."with bank help ".We can called it for future "untouchable area " if every area are droppin in prices this area will still maintain the 1st choice for celebriates n multimillionaire peoples along with alburj tower area.

For new cities of new dubai we will keep updating .

Even after 3-5 years you can't do a Personal Finance for a single studio specially those regular investors .
The prices is a very very over any salary of any head manger working on UAE Because they wanna a specific peoples for a specific location that's why international city still empty till a day .

Dubai Marina have the most realistic prices all over NEW DUBAI projects sharing with JLT. i can say a very undervalued if those prices drop in next year or a year after , prices increase on specific time i guess not like DBD Or PJ which i can see it will increase in every moments ! 


P.S (the prices above )without the accessories + iam agree with members said the correction should be up & down not down alawys .


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## dlnash

I dont get one thing,...why do people say that properties located in the high end segment will be the ones most to suffer in case of a price correction..I somewhat dont agree with this..if you look at the UK and US, the major price declines has been in properties that were located in the suburbs,where ppl who couldnt afford to buy,, bought properties through easy mortgages..
On the other hand, ppl who bought in the cities ./downtowns or the high end locations were the ones who already had a lot of money and therefore prices in these areas havent fallen...I think in times of downturn, the most sought after property will be the one in prime locations instead of the cheaper ones in far off locations..even if prices fall in the prime locations, they would be in a better position to lease them out than the ones located further away..ppl with properties in these locations could just lower there rents whereas the other ones would find it more difficult to find tenants...


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## bizzybonita

^^ your'e talking when dubai reach maturation stage !


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## IISinbadII

dlnash said:


> I dont get one thing,...why do people say that properties located in the high end segment will be the ones most to suffer in case of a price correction..I somewhat dont agree with this..if you look at the UK and US, the major price declines has been in properties that were located in the suburbs,where ppl who couldnt afford to buy,, bought properties through easy mortgages..
> On the other hand, ppl who bought in the cities ./downtowns or the high end locations were the ones who already had a lot of money and therefore prices in these areas havent fallen...I think in times of downtown, the most sought after property will be the one in prime locations instead of the cheaper ones in far off locations..even if prices fall in the prime locations, they would be in a better position to lease them out than the ones located further away..ppl with properties in these locations could just lower there rents whereas the other ones would find it more difficult to find tenants...


^^ that sums it up.


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## dlnash

I mean to say,,who'll be better off in times of downturn...the owners of prime properties instead of selling their properties ,,could just lower their rents and attract tenants rather than being empty..compared to other cheaper locations.


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## bizzybonita

^^yes best choice . but if all towers belong to goverment i guess no loser there !


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## googly

Imre said:


> I paid 5000 dhs/sqft in August there and I will sell for 6-7000 soon.
> 
> That area still cheap compare to many cities.


Please let us know if you succeed in selling at 6-7K. 

What I cant understand is why South Ridge is so cheap, even though its in DBD? If rental returns are so low, who would want to rent out their apt in DBD?


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## IISinbadII

googly said:


> What I cant understand is why South Ridge is so cheap, even though its in DBD? If rental returns are so low, who would want to rent out their apt in DBD?


1 br in south ridge are renting for 130-140k and selling for 2.6m 2.7m. Is that cheap?


----------



## Monument

dlnash said:


> I dont get one thing,...why do people say that properties located in the high end segment will be the ones most to suffer in case of a price correction..I somewhat dont agree with this..if you look at the UK and US, the major price declines has been in properties that were located in the suburbs,where ppl who couldnt afford to buy,, bought properties through easy mortgages..
> On the other hand, ppl who bought in the cities ./downtowns or the high end locations were the ones who already had a lot of money and therefore prices in these areas havent fallen...I think in times of downturn, the most sought after property will be the one in prime locations instead of the cheaper ones in far off locations..even if prices fall in the prime locations, they would be in a better position to lease them out than the ones located further away..ppl with properties in these locations could just lower there rents whereas the other ones would find it more difficult to find tenants...


Central locations in major financial centers always do best in downturns as there will always be renters and buyers for central locations - distant suburbs and small town centers do worst.

When people say high end properties suffer most they mean in absolute $$ terms - not in percent terms (usually). So if a $10million property in the center of the major city drops 10% in value the owner loses $1million. If a $250,000 property loses 20% then the owner has lost $50,000. Hence the confusion.


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## THEPOINT

FWIW said:


> I think a 'price correction' is when the sticky labels come out wrong from the pricing-up gun. So you have to change the labels. (yes now we have barcodes, but in old days and in old shops!)
> 
> A 'profit correction' is when *you thought* that the tin of beans* you just bought for 1aed are in actual fact worth 10aed. The profit correction comes when you come to sell the tin of beans* For What Its Worth (FWIW)!!!
> 
> If you have been greedy, then the real pain comes when you need to pay back the loan you took when you thought that you would buy 10 tins of baked beans* to become a baked bean* millionaire!
> 
> *Replace baked beans with any asset of your choice (yes that includes GOLD!)


Did you work for BLAIR as well ?


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> Has anyone here made their 1% Dubai Land Department registry payment for an uncompleted off-plan purchase (regarding Law No. 13, Aug 14) who is not a Select Property customer? My understanding is that this 1% fee must be paid by 14 October for all property completed or not, otherwise your purchase will not be legally valid. Is this really the case and has any non Select Property Customer made such a payment yet? Would like to hear from any Cayan Infinity and Trident off-plan buyers for example.


Bin Hamoodah, Star Giga, Bando and Emaar didnt ask this payment.


----------



## Hanna

Imre said:


> Bin Hamoodah, Star Giga, Bando and Emaar didnt ask this payment.


Hi Imre


If it is the case everyone has to pay this 1% surely all the developers must
inform their clients to save them going in to a default situation ! :cheers:


----------



## THEPOINT

Imre said:


> Bin Hamoodah, Star Giga, Bando and Emaar didnt ask this payment.


I THINK SP HAVE GOT IT WRONG - 4 OTHER DEVELOPERS I DEAL WITH HAVEN'T ASKED FOR PAYMENT =-AND ONLY 11 DAYS TO GO !!


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## 234sale

Call RERA,,, the charge was only going to be 350AED and paid for by the developer.

No transfer fees on uncomplete property in Dubai either.


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## NajamD

The P of T said:


> We have purchased a 1 bed apt in the Med Tower in 2006. We have made 15% payment so far.
> 
> About a week ago we received a 'final notice' letter (after hearing nothing for 2 years), demanding 211,000 UAE D. If we do not pay this immediately we will lose the apt.
> 
> Has anybody else received a similar letter? Is anybody up to date with payments.
> 
> We requested development details before we make the payment but all we have received are very brief details about the progress of the sports facilities - nothing about CRW.
> 
> It's a bit worrying really. So we're looking for other people who have purchased in CRW who might be able to give us their experiences.
> 
> Thank-you!


Yes, we had a similar letter from Bin Hamoodah for Zumurud Apartments we have booked. We contacted them staright away, asked for progress report and they sent us one immediately. We asked for some time for the payment and they were cooperative. We are now up to date with payments.


----------



## FWIW

^^Can someone please clarify what is going on for me? Has anyone contacted RERA?

Are Select Property the only ones asking for this?


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## Dubai_Steve

The Law No.13 of *14 August 2008 *aims to regulate off-plan sales and mandates registration with the land department in Dubai. According to the latest property law,* it is mandatory to register off-plan property sales in Dubai with the Land Department*. This is yet another law to safeguard the interests of the real estate investors and buyers of off-plan property in the emirate. 

The law also states that master developers and sub-developers will no longer be allowed to charge transfer fees on off-plan sales. However, they will be allowed to accept administrative charges after approval by the Land Department. 

Off-plan sales refer to the purchase of a property before the structure is actually built. Any sale or other disposition that transfers or restricts title shall be void if not registered in the interim real estate register, the new law stipulates. *Any developer who makes a sale or other disposition before the law comes into effect must register it within 60 days.*


----------



## Dubai_Steve

FWIW said:


> ^^Can someone please clarify what is going on for me? Has anyone contacted RERA?
> 
> Are Select Property the only ones asking for this?


This really needs to be confirmed for everyone's sake, it could be that Select are the only one who got it right and everyone else will loose their property (becoming legally invalid) or Select have mis-interpreted the law 13.


----------



## Dubai_Steve




----------



## FWIW

^^ Thanks for posting all this steve - I still haven't got my letter!!!!!

Also does anyone really know whether we need to pay the LLP value or the standard one. Re-reading the letter and my contract, I think people on the LPP need to pay the purchase price as stated in contract. Unfortunately, this is the higher value....

Anyone wanna buy some gold? Quick sale!!!! (Only kidding!)


----------



## jeetha

Has anyone called Select….call them
ask them why “ONLY” Select customers have to pay, law number 13?


----------



## The P of T

We have purchased a 1 bed apt in the Med Tower in 2006. We have made 15% payment so far.

About a week ago we received a 'final notice' letter (after hearing nothing for 2 years), demanding 211,000 UAE D. If we do not pay this immediately we will lose the apt.

Has anybody else received a similar letter? Is anybody up to date with payments.

We requested development details before we make the payment but all we have received are very brief details about the progress of the sports facilities - nothing about CRW.

It's a bit worrying really. So we're looking for other people who have purchased in CRW who might be able to give us their experiences.

Thank-you!


----------



## bizzybonita

i guess no jeetha LOL . Everyone yea everyone but the time is what we need !


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## bizzybonita

2008 is they year of different kind of fees ? What a year :lol:


P.S the increase prices of real estate by our wallets so let everyone paid the regular fees without any crash to the market . :nuts: :bash:


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## ianthy

Hi
I just spoke to SS and they say that their Directors are out in Dubai now talking with 
the Land Dept trying to confirm if the calculation should include LLP premium or not but the payment will definately need to ba paid. Expect comms next week by phone, letter and email. The downside a payment that was not due until completion will be be found the up side - the property will be legally registed to the owner and will reduce the opportunity for sharp practice by developer - by the way I am not suggesting SS are sharp operators!


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## Dubai_Steve

So why has nobody else here buying from other developers heard about this yet? My understanding is that ALL property MUST be registered with Dubai Land Department as 1% fee from buyer and 1% fee from developer BEFORE 14 OCTOBER 2008 !


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## ianthy

Good question - as a previous poster says either SS have it wrong or other developers have it wrong. Are there any independent sites/info that we can access?


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## Ali_Syed

i am up to date with the payments. of course the construction was delayed. but now things are on track.

i think legally they can take away your apartment and you lose the payments if you dont pay on time. i suggest you pay now and keep the apartment till completion. as you have made alot of equitty since purchasing it.


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## 234sale

The only time you would have to pay another 1% is registation of title deed with Lands Department. 

Like the springs/meadows/marina owners who bought orginially then had to register the title. Some still haven't registered,, but if they want to sell they must before.


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## Morten_Denmark

Dubai_Steve said:


> No not that much I guess launch prices from 4000-5000psf, as you say 10 year investment so must be somewhat realistic.


I just fear it will higher than the recent Burj Down Town launches. 4-5 k will be quite OK. I will still prefer Nakheel's beach towers at the Dubai Promenade


----------



## ILOVE-DUBAI

what is the source of these information?


----------



## mackie1964

Morten_Denmark said:


> Well, seems like a small Torch unit is more realistic for me then
> 
> So this one will go for something like 10.000-8.000 psf ?


I know just the unit for you :lol: and now with a good partial Marina View :banana::lol: Very Cheap :cheers:


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## Morten_Denmark

mackie1964 said:


> I know just the unit for you :lol: and now with a good partial Marina View :banana::lol: Very Cheap :cheers:


Mackie - see - if you sold me that apartment some months ago when we thought the view would be a wall - you would have lost out. Just wait and see the appriciation in prices as the Torch finishes :banana: - when is this - 2 years - or almost the same time of an elephants pregnancy :cheers:


----------



## Anjam

Morten_Denmark said:


> Mackie - see - if you sold me that apartment some months ago when we thought the view would be a wall - you would have lost out. Just wait and see the appriciation in prices as the Torch finishes :banana: - when is this - 2 years - or almost the same time of an elephants pregnancy :cheers:


^^ Lets hope that after two years of pregnancy it doesn't turn out to be a "White Elephant"


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## worried1

*Where is New Dubai*

Can somebody point out the area that New Dubai encompasses?

Thanks:cheers:


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## Dubai_Steve

DIFC Investments, a unit of Dubai International Financial Centre that owns stakes in firms including Deutsche Bank, said it will start a fund to invest in real estate in Dubai and the United Arab Emirates. 

"The steady growth of the real-estate sector in recent years and the great future prospects provide us with an excellent opportunity to diversify our portfolio,'' Omar bin Suleiman, Governor of the DIFC, said in an e-mailed statement yesterday. 

The Dubai state-owned Emirates Business 24/7 newspaper reported today that the DIFC real-estate fund will amount to "multi-billions.''


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## laatu10

"KM Properties, part of the Knowledge Management Group, has announced its latest creek-side high quality freehold office tower in the city’s upcoming district, Business Bay. The 19-storey *B2B Tower will be completed in October 2008*."
^^
It should be ready now!

KM Properties hno:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Morten_Denmark said:


> I just fear it will higher than the recent Burj Down Town launches. 4-5 k will be quite OK. I will still prefer Nakheel's beach towers at the Dubai Promenade


Steve - seems you were right 3.500 psf - only problem is that it is in Us dollars  So around 13 k psf. 


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/10/Pages/10062008_dda30b2b7ddf427f83514ee9820e08b2.aspx


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## makerian

docc said:


> I really don't think finance should be a problem. They must have given this a thought 1000 times over, so i'm not going to think too hard about it.


Did they think about this a 1000 times over? They didn't very intelligently then did they?

one of the factors they should have considered is that its simply inefficient to have such a tower from a maintenance perspective. if they are building for the sake of having a landmark, surely we have enough of those already in Dubai


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## Dubai_Steve

Morten_Denmark said:


> Steve - seems you were right 3.500 psf - only problem is that it is in Us dollars  So around 13 k psf.
> 
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/10/Pages/10062008_dda30b2b7ddf427f83514ee9820e08b2.aspx


13k psf! Does not leave much room for investors to make a profit over the 10 years of cycles. I think they should start lower than that as there as so many units to sell. Trump tower did not have many units so was more exclusive.


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## FWIW

makerian said:


> Did they think about this a 1000 times over? They didn't very intelligently then did they?
> 
> one of the factors they should have considered is that its simply inefficient to have such a tower from a maintenance perspective. if they are building for the sake of having a landmark, surely we have enough of those already in Dubai


Quote:
Originally Posted by docc 
I really don't think finance should be a problem. They must have given this a thought 1000 times over, *so i'm not going to think too hard about it*.

It is very dangerous to let others do the thinking for you...


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## BenjiDXB

Oops...The National (Abu Dhabi based newspaper) had reported this morning that Dubai property prices fell by 16% in the second quarter of 2008...but here is the correction:

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081006/BUSINESS/337411249/1138

:nuts: :bash:


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## cube007

*is it time to get out then?*

wonder how many are pulling out their investments in Dubai; how many of you out there think its time to sell?

Thanks :nuts:


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## 234sale

None... 

They are all worried about new super high taxes in UK, EU and USA to pay for the Bailout.

Dubai is Tax Free


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## heatstor

I can't see this as a time to sell at all.
Trillions of dollars are coming out of Equity markets worldwide. Some fraction of it definitely goes into real estate. 
Remember some of the big wigs in the Middle East do not believe in Savings and Money Market accounts (fixed income from Interest). What do they do with their money after taking it out of stocks, put it in Checking Accounts?


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## mackie1964

Yep, it took less than a second to think about this question :cheers:


----------



## docc

FWIW said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by docc
> I really don't think finance should be a problem. They must have given this a thought 1000 times over, *so i'm not going to think too hard about it*.
> 
> It is very dangerous to let others do the thinking for you...


Point taken  Wise words indeed.


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## Wannaberich

With Ramadan over and Cityscape starting,is this where prices should pick up again?
Will this tell us if Dubai has been affected by the credit crunch?
Another indication maybe is the turnout for Cityscape?Anyone know was it busy today same as last year?


----------



## googly

cube007 said:


> wonder how many are pulling out their investments in Dubai; how many of you out there think its time to sell?
> 
> Thanks :nuts:


I am not selling. But I am not buying either. Was planning to go to Cityscape but decided against it because of the turmoil worldwide. It's impossible for Dubai to escape unscathed. hno:


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## Dubai_Steve

Remember that it will be 12 or 14 years before some of those units will be handed over by that time we would have been through 2 more complete global cycles! It is all a very long time away. Contrary to HT, I think doing nothing in a global downturn is the worst action you can take, showing the vision and future of Dubai down the line instills confidence that Dubai is a great product to continue investing in for the long term.


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## AITU

^^ Agreed. With every crisis there is an opportunity


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## dubaiguy7

sorry to go off topic..... but Could somebody please tell me what I should consider market price per sqft for Jumeirah Golf estates flame tree ridge villa with golf course view. With the present state of affairs what with the slow market I am confused what the REAL price per sqft currently is in this area.......??


thanks guys


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## montranieri

*title deed*

I just found out that my bldg in Dubai Marina , completed since more than an year, is still not regisred with land department and the plot is still registered in name of one person that I assume is the developer owner.
For this reason I can not apply for the title deed.

How can be possible? how many of you has the title deed for completed properties? The land will still belong to the developer?
Am I risking something?
My wife went to Dubai municipality yesterday and after an hour of ping pong from office to office we found out the above. people in the municiapality were thinking she was coming from mars for the questions she was asking....bah!

it is almost 6 monthes developer is sayng "next week you can apply for the title deed"

ONLY IN DUBAI!!!


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## London21

*[B]Your advice greatly appreciated[/B]*

I've got a 1 bed apartment in Burj Dubai Lake Hotel. (1001.26 sq feet inc balcony/ 51st floor) Current Selling price 4.0M net. Handover date Nov 30th.
Can be leased to the hotel (The Address). Hotel's share is 25% of the rental generated. Service charge/Maintenance 100AED/sq feet

Hold on to it or sell it??????

Many thanks


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## NajamD

Shrewd investors don't wait to buy, they buy and wait!!!


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## NajamD

London21 said:


> I've got a 1 bed apartment in Burj Dubai Lake Hotel. (1001.26 sq feet inc balcony/ 51st floor) Current Selling price 4.0M net. Handover date Nov 30th.
> Can be leased to the hotel (The Address). Hotel's share is 25% of the rental generated. Service charge/Maintenance 100AED/sq feet
> 
> Hold on to it or sell it??????
> 
> Many thanks


I would hold on to it if i were you, unless of course if you are desparate to sell!!


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## jeetha

Old Town Lovin... said:


> The Gardens, Dubailand, Waterfront, Nakheel Harbour, JLT, DG, blah, blah, blah... who is going to live in all these areas... I barely have 4 neighbors in OldTown... And two of them, everyone knows from SSC.. hno:


Your neighbours are - smussuw & Altin (am I right)? :lol:


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## makerian

montranieri said:


> I just found out that my bldg in Dubai Marina , completed since more than an year, is still not regisred with land department and the plot is still registered in name of one person that I assume is the developer owner.
> For this reason I can not apply for the title deed.
> 
> How can be possible? how many of you has the title deed for completed properties? The land will still belong to the developer?
> Am I risking something?
> My wife went to Dubai municipality yesterday and after an hour of ping pong from office to office we found out the above. people in the municiapality were thinking she was coming from mars for the questions she was asking....bah!
> 
> it is almost 6 monthes developer is sayng "next week you can apply for the title deed"
> 
> ONLY IN DUBAI!!!


I don't know if its only in Dubai but certainly in Dubai, no doubt!!

Yours is a private developer. I on the other hand own a studio in International City and have a contract from Nakheel. For months now, they have been in the process of registering title deeds for Buildings/Apartments in Int'l City with the Land Department. They have yet to get around to my apartment. 

It would be understandable to ask people to be patient with registration .. except that Nakheel has frozen all transfers of international city apartments. So for the past three months, I'm stuck with an apartment that I own but cannot sell. 

These are just a couple of examples where the process of buying and selling real estate in Dubai can be laughable if it weren't so frustrating for the investor. Others examples that come to mind are trading of entry tokens for lucrative launches, requests for duplicate (fradulent) MOU's from buyers to enable better mortgage terms from lenders, developers canceling projects years after launching. I am sure that others can share their own experiences. Most of these are part of investing in a market which has been in its infancy and with absence of laws and regulatory framekwork. 

Having said that let us also recognize that the phenomenal (and abnormal) returns that investors have achieved in Dubai's real estate market are in part derived from investing in an infant market. Broadly speaking, the risks mentioned have been compensated for by returns yielded (although some individuals may have suffered) 

Dubai's real estate market has been through an historic period of abnormal returns and my guess is that it'll eventually find itself in a textbook of financial history in a Chapter of asset-class booms. Watch this space to see how the chapter ends.


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## makerian

High Times said:


> Dubai needs to reduce the number of new projects being launched and concentrate on finishing what is under construction and get them filled with tennants or home owners.
> 
> It's getting ridiculous the amount of projects that are being sold when completed projects are half occupied.
> 
> We all complain about how Demac runs their affairs (hundreds of launches and very little completed). Well in my opinion Dubai is just becoming a bigger version of Demac.


Agreed 100%


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## Dubai_Steve

^^ and what happens in that case when everything under construction is completed in a few years time and nothing else has been designed or has started construction? A 10 year plan is always a good thing in my opinion. If only the UK had some vision


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## docc

I was speaking to one of the developers today and they were surprised as to how many american companies had approached them in want of work. Since the US is a bad market for those in the construction market, the Middle East has now all of a sudden become a construction haven for these people.

Also, i overheard a couple of guys in the finance business talking about the increasing number of job applications (banking sector) from people in the US and UK. Apparently, every major bank is now trying to setup an office in Dubai as in their eyes, this is the ONLY place in the world that seems lucrative to pretty much every kind of business there is.

All this is again speculation; but i thought it was interesting nevertheless.


----------



## smussuw

jeetha said:


> Your neighbours are - smussuw & Altin (am I right)? :lol:


lol, u are so wrong. 234Sale is one neighbour, don't know about the other !

He is talking about people living in the old town !


----------



## Tractor

Al Jazeera Intl news had a piece today about a potential property crash in Dubai caused by the credit crisis. Dubai gov. apparently wants some of its mortgage companies to merge.

They said there is a massive difference in what is being reported inside Dubai compared with outside.

Anyone know anything else?


----------



## docc

Old Town Resident.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

smussuw said:


> lol, u are so wrong. 234Sale is one neighbour, don't know about the other !
> 
> He is talking about people living in the old town !


Haha... yes... 234+OTR... everyone should move to Old Town... I will even sell you my place... fully furnished apartment! I will even let you keep the picture of me in it... :nuts:

Haha... ok, I promise this is the last of my useless posts for the day... 

Go CityScape!


----------



## jeetha

Old Town Lovin... said:


> Haha... yes... 234+OTR... everyone should move to Old Town... I will even sell you my place... fully furnished apartment! I will even let you keep the picture of me in it... :nuts:


SWAP 2 for 1 ? :cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai not 'insulated' from property slowdown*
http://www.ameinfo.com/170560.html

The CEO of Shaikh Holdings, the developer of Sanctuary Falls on the Jumeirah Golf Estates, believes the property market in Dubai will experience a price correction, as the cost of property exceeds what many people can afford to pay. 

A number of analyst reports released recently have said the market in Dubai will see prices slowing down, with a correction of about 15% in 2010. Imran Shaikh said that elements of the market are already slowing down. 

Describing the rapid rise in prices over the past few years as 'unhealthy' for the market, he said: 'We need to be aware that we are isolated in Dubai but not insulated [from the global downturn]. 

'I believe the market has now reached the point where price stabilisation is occurring. I believe we have entered a correction phase and it is needed in the market, because you have a large section of people who would like to buy a home but can't afford to. There needs to be some equalisation in the market,' he told AME Info. 

Currently in Dubai there is not enough property aimed at middle income workers, but Shaikh pointed to the rising price of land and construction costs, plus the desire by developers to then add in their margin of profit for the costs increasing. 'Developers need to look at their end sales price and work backwards,' he said.


----------



## Tom_Green

Property market is slwoing down?
How about they build some office towers with low rents? Many people would move to Dubai because their company has moved to Dubai.


----------



## 234sale

Old Town,,, wife wouldn't live anywhere else.. 

I like it as I can walk into BB and take pics..


----------



## laatu10

This topic the first message.


----------



## DubaiDream

DUBAI (Reuters) – Middle East stocks slumped to multi-year lows on Tuesday as speculation intensified that a five-year Gulf property boom was over and developers could be forced to merge as financing conditions deteriorate.

Ambitious Gulf developers have unveiled $100 billion in new projects in the past two days and officials have tried to restore confidence in the market, but investors focused instead on Europe’s spreading banking crisis and falling global markets.

Shares in Saudi Arabia, the biggest Arab equity market, fell 7.7 percent to their lowest level since the index <.TASI> was reformulated in 2007, while Egypt’s main index <.CASE30> fell 16 percent to erase all gains since mid-2006.

“The selling today is ridiculous. It’s a panic. People have been following the markets in Europe and the States,” said Hashem Ghoneim, chief executive of Cairo-based brokerage El Nour Securities.

The Saudi Arabian Monetary Agency (SAMA), the kingdom’s central bank, admitted it faced problems supplying liquidity to the dried-out financial sector while managing rampant inflation.

“People are worried about the potential repercussions,” said Fadi Alajaji, economist at SAMA. “We are greatly affected by the changes affecting the global economy. This raises fears among investors.”

In the energy-exporting Gulf, the source of investment for much of the Middle East, speculation intensified that the government would force Dubai developers Deyaar (DEYR.DU: Quote, Profile, Research) and Union Properties (UPRO.DU: Quote, Profile, Research) to merge as financing conditions worsened, analysts and traders said.

Investors ignored company statements that downplayed the tie-up talk and focused instead on the need for builders in general to bulk up in the face of a looming downturn.

“The reasoning behind the mergers we’re seeing these days is because the economic circumstances and obstacles that companies are facing these days are increasing,” Chahir Hosni, sales manager at investment bank EFG-Hermes.

Mortgage lenders Tamweel (TAML.DU: Quote, Profile, Research) and Amlak Finance (AMLK.DU: Quote, Profile, Research) fuelled speculation that banks, builders and finance firms in the Gulf would join forces after they revealed on Saturday that they were in talks over a $2.4 billion merger.

“This is a way of raising funds, basically. This is why you are seeing companies selling out, because the bigger the entities are, the stronger they will be,” Hosni said.

NO ISLAND

Middle Eastern markets were briefly spared from the widening financial crisis due to the heavy influx of petrodollars, but faith in the financial system has weakened dramatically due to concerns about exposure to the property sector.

Gulf Arab builders, above all, have revelled in the superlatives surrounding their construction plans, such as the world’s tallest building, largest shopping mall, biggest airport or most extensive man-made island.

But as speculative cash has left the real estate market, particularly from the financial centre Dubai in the United Arab Emirates, the property boom has run out of steam.

Officials from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Oman moved to reassure investors that the decline in regional markets was temporary and touted their countries’ strong economies, but to little effect.

“The financial situation in the country is safe and sound and liquidity at banks is available and exceeds billions,” Kuwaiti Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of State for Cabinet Affairs Faisal al-Hajji told state news agency KUNA.

Other Middle Eastern states were not spared. The Amman Stock Exchange index fell 3.9 percent to close at 3,635 points.

“This is part of a global panic due fears of a global recession,” said Tarek Yaghmour, head of research at Jordan’s Capital Investments Bank.

Investors have also been discouraged by the murky nature of many enterprises in the Middle East, where transparency standards lag the West’s and investors are often left guessing about risks.

“We need more transparency of what’s going on in the market, in the financial sector specifically, and we need more clarity in the real estate and banking sectors,” said Sherif Abdelkhalek, institutions accounts manager at Beltone Financial.

A fall in profit from Saudi’s Riyad Bank (1010.SE: Quote, Profile, Research) sent its shares down 10 percent, while bank Samba (1090.SE: Quote, Profile, Research) also fell 10 percent at one point to levels not seen since late 2004.

“It’s way beyond logical,” said equity strategist Ahmad Shahin at investment bank Shuaa Capital. “We’ve reached a stage where we are just sitting down and watching and hoping that people realise that our markets are extremely well valued.” (Additional reporting by Suleiman al-Khalidi, Souhail Karam, Ulf Laessing, Rania El Gamal, Frederick Richter, Raissa Kasolowsky, John Irish, Amran Abocar and Inal Ersan; Editing by Will Waterman and David Holmes)


----------



## Garden city

Ok guys, i visited cityscape today and went to almost all the stalls. I was very impressed with the display, very well managed event. Now getting down to business  . i know everyone is speculating about the connection between global meltdown and dubai's real estate. Well apparently cityscape isn't as big a hit this time as before. I talked to couple of real estate brokers and developers and they admitted that response isn't good. One real estate broker actually started talking about it even when i did not ask and she was trying to sell me a buy back plan telling that currently nothing is guaranteed so i better invest in buyback plans. One real estate broker who is a friend of my colleague actually recommended me not to think of buying at all, and he says this could be the beginning of bad things to come.

My friend has been trying to sell 3 units for past 5 months but is getting no response at all. when we approached the developers ( don't want to take names but they are among the big 3 ) they recommended to hold ( you know the same way stocks are recommded for hold when no one is buying them ). To top it all, today there was an interview on Dubai eye with the guy who is incharge of cityscape and he himself sounded very pessimistic talking that fundamentals cannot support some of the projects that have been announced, he was talking about the fact that deposits are very low in Dubai and loans are very high and growing at a faster rate which cannot be sustainable especially in the current scenario of global liquidity crunch.


But overall i liked the exhibition because it is the first that i attended in Dubai and got to see Michael Schumacher as well :banana::banana:


----------



## High Times

^^^^

No way, really, you dont say...........................


----------



## AITU

Garden city - no offence but you sound like a 14 year old playing a fruit machine for the first time


----------



## mackie1964

^^And don't ask him about any bank shares :lol::banana::banana:


----------



## Tractor

mackie1964 said:


> ^^And don't ask him about any bank shares :lol::banana::banana:


Who me? Sold RBS & BARC at a 20% profit 2 weeks ago ... and still holding HSBC with a 30% profit.

Rather that than still owning a Dubai apt. that isn't finished yet that I can't sell ...


----------



## bizzybonita

* Fighting project delays *

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/10/Pages/10072008_56c3c63a8d724ab2a5065a2bbe275095.aspx


----------



## IISinbadII

Garden city said:


> My friend has been trying to sell 3 units for past 5 months but is getting no response at all.


Ready to move-in units or something off-plan. 
What location and development?
Thanks.


----------



## Garden city

AITU said:


> Garden city - no offence but you sound like a 14 year old playing a fruit machine for the first time


No offence taken.Don't just take my word, you can try talking to some of the real estate brokers and developers yourself about the response to cityscape.


----------



## Garden city

IISinbadII said:


> Ready to move-in units or something off-plan.
> What location and development?
> Thanks.


Off-plan. Emaar Bawadi


----------



## docc

Garden city said:


> Off-plan. Emaar Bawadi


And you're wondering why he hasn't been able to sell it?

One thing i can never understand is why people complain about not getting good returns from bad investments. I just don't get it.


----------



## Imre

Garden city said:


> Off-plan. Emaar Bawadi


resale still not allowed just with MOU 

Not easy to sell because the Emaar has many units left and people prefered the higher price ,buying from directly the Emaar.
That is more safety than pay premium for somebody and waiting for the transfer next year.

Honestly , in Dubai I would never buy anything with MOU.


----------



## Ossi

Hi guys,

do anyone know if there is any kind of guarantee protecting the money on UAE bank accounts.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## 234sale

No guarantee, that I know of.


----------



## Mavekris

docc said:


> And you're wondering why he hasn't been able to sell it?
> 
> One thing i can never understand is why people complain about not getting good returns from bad investments. I just don't get it.




^^Bad Investment? Hellooo......

Not very long back ago people were paying 5000Aed To 10000Aed,to get a place in any emmar launch...bcoz very next day a premium of 5 to 10% was definite.

I have seen recent emaar projects being offered at 0Premium .

Bottom line there are no investors in the market,and yes there is a correction happening in the profits what people have already made .

I bet if cityscape can come out with geniune sales figures..let the figures speak instead of arguing


----------



## Garden city

Mavekris said:


> ^^Bad Investment? Hellooo......
> 
> Not very long back ago people were paying 5000Aed To 10000Aed,to get a place in any emmar launch...bcoz very next day a premium of 5 to 10% was definite.
> 
> I have seen recent emaar projects being offered at 0Premium .
> 
> Bottom line there are no investors in the market,and yes there is a correction happening in the profits what people have already made .
> 
> I bet if cityscape can come out with geniune sales figures..let the figures speak instead of arguing


Yeah Emaar-Bawadi is a bad investment especially considering that it will take very long for that area to develop. Guess my colleagues was not prudent enough.

Will have to wait for complete cityscape figures


----------



## ash81

pls can someone explain what is LAND DEPARTMENT TRANSFER FEE ??
when is it payable....
how does it differ from the REGISTRATION FEE...


----------



## docc

Kris,

You're saying that the units his friend has at Emaar-Bawadi (most likely Maysan or Asmaran) were actually good investments for flipping? If so, can you explain why?

I feel that for flipping purposes, there are actually MUCH better investment opportunities out there. Correct me if i'm wrong please.


----------



## Mavekris

^^It's got nothing to do with Maysan or warsan.

What matters is Emaar.

It's an Emaar project 

And if there are no buyers for emaar project even without premium ...


----------



## rexdmx

^^ of course there were much better opportunities for flipping but the flipping process shouldn't even have to occur. better buy into a good location for a long term hold...that is what real estate is supposed to be..illiquid (at least theoretically)

garden city: i also heard the interview by the cityscape on the radio and he wasn't as pessimistic as you are saying...he did also point out the huge capital surpluses which already exist. and the newspapers recently printed out the deposit to loan amounts in the U.A.E banks...there were on par or slightly different


----------



## docc

I would have to respectfully disagree Kris. Its not purely the brand that matters, but also the kind of project it is, it's immediate need, payment plans, design etc. As an investor, i wouldn't blindly buy just because its Emaar or Nakheel; i would definitely take into consideration all the aforementioned factors.

Even today, there are plenty of investment options which can fetch 50% returns in less than 6 months . Its about investing smartly and that's really all there is to this game.


----------



## dlnash

Mavekris said:


> ^^It's got nothing to do with Maysan or warsan.
> 
> What matters is Emaar.
> 
> It's an Emaar project
> 
> And if there are no buyers for emaar project even without premium ...


I personally think if you have any properties they should be either Emaar, Nakheel or Dubai Properties..coz these are the only developers in which your unit is almost guaranteed to be completed and delivered..with regards to other developers in times of financial turmoil,,there is a lot of chance that they might collapse, or maybe unable to complete any projects and you are going to be badly stuck..
even if the above developers charge a premium for their properties,, I think it is quite fair to do so..
the dubai market has been quite immature uptil now with new developers coming up and launching loads of buildings...I think as the market matures (as it is currently) people will start to realise the difference between developers and they will become more inclined to purchase from those ones who are most likely to deliver (even though it might be delayed) and atleast they will deliver and people will even pay their prices as compared to other low-key developers who are selling at lower prices.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Will wait for the cityscape figures. 


Dlnash has a valid point.

If i am not wrong and every one knows the fact that BIG 3 set the prices in dubai


----------



## docc

For end users, that makes good sense dlnash, but for those in the trading business, it would mean suicide trying to deal with only 3 developers, however big they are. Everyone's well aware how expensive they are, so it doesn't make much financial sense paying 5000+/Sft in DBD or almost 2500/Sft for Villa's/Townhouses and then trying to make a premium out of that.

There are a LOT of good deals out there; just need to look hard


----------



## Wannaberich

According to Gulf News today,Dubai will spend 1.3trillionDh on projects over the next 10 years.Then I guess theres what has been spent so far to add.
So its not that much after all.


----------



## docc

That's not much by Middle-Eastern standards. Abu Dhabi will have much more; its only in its infancy stage right now.


----------



## dlnash

docc said:


> For end users, that makes good sense dlnash, but for those in the trading business, it would mean suicide trying to deal with only 3 developers, however big they are. Everyone's well aware how expensive they are, so it doesn't make much financial sense paying 5000+/Sft in DBD or almost 2500/Sft for Villa's/Townhouses and then trying to make a premium out of that.
> 
> There are a LOT of good deals out there; just need to look hard


the thing is that 5,000 psf pinches you now..5 years down the road we'll all be saying ..."Why did'nt I buy at 5,000"..the main thing is sustainabilitiy during tough times...how many developers do you think will be able to sustain and actually complete all their projects?.. If you buy something at 1,500 psf...there is a slight risk that you might get stuck with uncompleted properties due to the developer is unable to get financing.. the thing with big developers is that even though their stocks are crashing they have already made billions in profit during the past 5 years...its about time this profit starts coming out of their pockets..
I still think the times of 50% returns are over...now it's going to be a 10-15% appreciation for the next few years..


----------



## docc

dlnash said:


> I still think the times of 50% returns are over...now it's going to be a 10-15% appreciation for the next few years..


If you insist


----------



## dlnash

I think whether or not you should buy a property anywhere in the world depends on the rental yields it can generate in addition to the capital appreciation ..I think the times of high capital appreciation quickly are gone in Dubai and it is time to focus on rental yields to see if a property is worth investing or not..I still think that in Dubai even at the high prices that can generate rental yields of 10% or more..( you not only recover the cost of the property within 10 years but also will get atleast some capital appreciation in the time).based on this, I still think investing in Dubai is still a very good investment....


----------



## Wannaberich

Wannaberich said:


> According to Gulf News today,Dubai will spend 1.3trillionDh on projects over the next 10 years.Then I guess theres what has been spent so far to add.
> So its not that much after all.


Actually I was kidding,but thinking about it,maybe its not so much.
I think maybe this isnt an accurate sum.When you consider all of the mega projects to be built,it's got to be alot more than this?


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> Actually I was kidding,but thinking about it,maybe its not so much.
> I think maybe this isnt an accurate sum.When you consider all of the mega projects to be built,it's got to be alot more than this?


Definitely more.


----------



## legal eagle

*thats a gr8 way to put it!*



dlnash said:


> I think whether or not you should buy a property anywhere in the world depends on the rental yields it can generate in addition to the capital appreciation ..I think the times of high capital appreciation quickly are gone in Dubai and it is time to focus on rental yields to see if a property is worth investing or not..I still think that in Dubai even at the high prices that can generate rental yields of 10% or more..( you not only recover the cost of the property within 10 years but also will get atleast some capital appreciation in the time).based on this, I still think investing in Dubai is still a very good investment....


Certainly in a mature market the rental income is a major variable.

Many ignored it in Europe right up to say, London's collapse.

People were buying property yielding 4 percent per year in rents.

They said: "yes I could put the money in the bank and collect higher yields but I am doing this for capital appreciation"

The problem with this is that if the place does increase in value then the yield reduces even further! say from 4 % to 3 %.

Then another increase and now its yielding 2 %.

Something has to correct at this point.

Its just knowing when


----------



## NajamD

Did anyone else see the Aljazeerah news article on Dubai Property yesterday. They were claiming that Dubai Property market is a big bubble about to burst hno: If that were to happen it will have huge ramifications on the entire region and the investors' confidence may be shaken irrepairably. Dubai needs to slow down in order to come out on top!!


----------



## docc

Few reasons why there will NOT be a collapse; rather just a correction in over inflated areas:

1) Prices are still sustainable in most areas.
2) Rental yields on an average exceed 10%.
3) Property prices still cheaper than other financial hubs.
4) 8% annual population increase (not talking about blue collar workers here).
5) Government backing for pretty much all major projects.
6) Tax free haven.
7) Demand still outstripping supply.
8) Middle East's financial capital - whether you agree or not!
9) Big Daddy Abu Dhabi is always there to lend a hand as they cannot afford to have Dubai's reputation tarnished for obvious reasons.
10) However much you argue, they have the necessary capital to sustain and fund these projects.
11) Aviation capital of the WORLD.

These are just off the top off my head, in no particular order.


----------



## FWIW

I *absolutely love it* when new members join this site and give their expert opinions, on the Dubai Property Market, to people that have been investing in Dubai since 2003...


----------



## dlnash

docc said:


> Few reasons why there will NOT be a collapse; rather just a correction in over inflated areas:
> 
> 1) Prices are still sustainable in most areas.
> 2) Rental yields on an average exceed 10%.
> 3) Property prices still cheaper than other financial hubs.
> 4) 8% annual population increase (not talking about blue collar workers here).
> 5) Government backing for pretty much all major projects.
> 6) Tax free haven.
> 7) Demand still outstripping supply.
> 8) Middle East's financial capital - whether you agree or not!
> 9) Big Daddy Abu Dhabi is always there to lend a hand as they cannot afford to have Dubai's reputation tarnished for obvious reasons.
> 10) However much you argue, they have the necessary capital to sustain and fund these projects.
> 11) Aviation capital of the WORLD.
> 
> These are just off the top off my head, in no particular order.


another important point is that Dubai is like a second home to ppl of the subcontinent(more than 1.5 billion ppl)..not that each and everyone can invest but even if 1% is capable of investing that makes around 15million potential investors..and there has been tremendous amounts of money being poured into dubai for the past few years from these countries....ppl from these areas buy in Dubai not just for the sake of super returns but for the sake of a safer investment than at home..dubai is a relatively safer place to live


----------



## Mavekris

^^:lol::booze::goodnight


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

FWIW said:


> I *absolutely love it* when new members join this site and give their expert opinions, on the Dubai Property Market, to people that have been investing in Dubai since 2003...


Haha... thats mean... 

But to be honest, I still scratch my head everyday thinking of how this market keeps rising... Worldwide, property markets are falling... Large banks, investment houses are going bankrupt... Stock markets are getting crushed... Even our own market here is losing huge percentage points each day... And yet, property market keeps going strong... Amazing... why fight it... Just join us for the ride...


----------



## Imre

dlnash said:


> another important point is that Dubai is like a second home to ppl of the subcontinent(more than 1.5 billion ppl)..not that each and everyone can invest but even if 1% is capable of investing that makes around 15million potential investors..and there has been tremendous amounts of money being poured into dubai for the past few years from these countries....ppl from these areas buy in Dubai not just for the sake of super returns but for the sake of a safer investment than at home..dubai is a relatively safer place to live


why only 1,5 billion???

I would say around 3 billion, India,Pakistan, China, Iran etc.. close to Dubai.


----------



## dlnash

FWIW said:


> ^^It is not there are no buyers. There are fewer buyers due to the removal of cheap credit. When prices come back to reasonable levels then the ones with cash/finance in place will come back.


i dont think investors are staying away due to high prices..you can see noone buying even reasonably priced properties..reason being is "PANIC"..
Once this goes away, ppl will start returning to the markets..liquidity will increase ..banks will start financing and everyone will be back to business.
I think some positive signs are already being seen..check the stock markets today..Emaar is up 3%..


----------



## AITU

^^


Mavekris said:


> ^^why is it that you are talking about secondary available property market(Mazaya-JLT)
> 
> I am talking about present situation - there are no buyers,no one wants to give finance, and everyone wants their money back (reasons can be flippers,usure of the market anything).
> 
> I will give you an example on advantage a project having a bank finance available.
> 
> You said JLT office space 1300Aed it will still be the same even after a couple of months bcoz there is no finance.
> 
> But get a bank to finance it 1300 will be 1600 very next day.


^^You missed the point - there are plenty of people here with cash waiting to pick up bargain distressed sales


----------



## FWIW

^^Exactly...


----------



## Mavekris

Aitu :There are some very good bargains sitting with leading property agents since long time.

What do you mean by distress sale give me an example..


----------



## AITU

^^Property agents do tend to advertise properties at cheap prices just to try and get people to make enquiries and then try to lead them to something else which is usually more expensive. There are many properties advertised in Gulf News etc. which aren't actually available at the price they are advertised at.

Distress sales are usually the speculators and flippers who have put down a deposit and expect to double or triple their money in a short time. When they don't have a buyer at the price they are asking or even the original price they paid and they don't have the means to continue with the full purchase of the property, they need to sell it quickly and cut their losses i.e they are "selling in distress"

I believe there are more distress sellers in the Dubai market now compared to earlier because there were a lot of British and European buyers using the equity in their existing properties in Europe to buy in Dubai. With the liquidity squeeze they can't keep up the payments and don't want to risk their European properties.

All the current situation is doing is seeing the end of the speculators in the market which is a good thing for the long term view of the market. Things needed to slow down a bit but in my opinion this is not a CRASH which I hear some people decribing it as. 

It will also tell us about how much of the current market in Dubai is made up of speculators who don't have the means to keep going, and end users as we can see how many properties will be on sale at "distressed" prices. 

Thankfully with supply coming through at such a slow rate, demand will still be high for complete or nearly complete properties for several more years. As a landlord with a long term view for collecting rent that makes me happy. All those expats that say they will leave because Dubai is expensive haven't really got anywhere to go to as the majority of their home countries' economies are screwed. Which doesn't make it easy to find employment......


----------



## dlnash

AITU said:


> ^^Property agents do tend to advertise properties at cheap prices just to try and get people to make enquiries and then try to lead them to something else which is usually more expensive. There are many properties advertised in Gulf News etc. which aren't actually available at the price they are advertised at.
> 
> Distress sales are usually the speculators and flippers who have put down a deposit and expect to double or triple their money in a short time. When they don't have a buyer at the price they are asking or even the original price they paid and they don't have the means to continue with the full purchase of the property, they need to sell it quickly and cut their losses i.e they are "selling in distress"
> 
> I believe there are more distress sellers in the Dubai market now compared to earlier because there were a lot of British and European buyers using the equity in their existing properties in Europe to buy in Dubai. With the liquidity squeeze they can't keep up the payments and don't want to risk their European properties.
> 
> All the current situation is doing is seeing the end of the speculators in the market which is a good thing for the long term view of the market. Things needed to slow down a bit but in my opinion this is not a CRASH which I hear some people decribing it as.
> 
> It will also tell us about how much of the current market in Dubai is made up of speculators who don't have the means to keep going, and end users as we can see how many properties will be on sale at "distressed" prices.
> 
> Thankfully with supply coming through at such a slow rate, demand will still be high for complete or nearly complete properties for several more years. As a landlord with a long term view for collecting rent that makes me happy. All those expats that say they will leave because Dubai is expensive haven't really got anywhere to go to as the majority of their home countries' economies are screwed. Which doesn't make it easy to find employment......


100% Agreed. Just to add on the home countries' economies are screwed part: It's not even safe to live in some of our countries. Dubai offers a safe environment and I think this will be a major reason to keep the market from crashing. People are continuously looking to making Dubai their second homes.
You can probably categorize buyers in three different aspects: 

1) Ones who are looking for immediate profits (speculators)
2) Ones who are looking for long term stable investment
3) Ones who are looking for peace of mind, stable environment, safe for themselvers and their children

I think even if 1/3 of the ppl exit the market, 2/3 are still left and these are the majority.


----------



## Wannaberich

Some of you guys seem to think the Dubai property boom has come to an end.On what are you basing that?


----------



## docc

The general consensus is that due to the global financial crisis and liquidity squeeze in most markets, investors are going to be hard to come by. Less investors = Less speculation = slower market.

My outlook is exactly opposite of what the papers and the naysayers state. Ofcourse, that could be partly attributed to the fact that i'm an optimist.


----------



## dlnash

docc said:


> The general consensus is that due to the global financial crisis and liquidity squeeze in most markets, investors are going to be hard to come by. Less investors = Less speculation = slower market.
> 
> My outlook is exactly opposite of what the papers and the naysayers state. Ofcourse, that could be partly attributed to the fact that i'm an optimist.


actually, everyone who has their neck tied up in dubai, is an optimist. Those who have'nt are obviously wishing that the market crashes just to justify their decisions of not investing


----------



## Mavekris

dlnash said:


> actually, everyone who has their neck tied up in dubai, is an optimist. Those who have'nt are obviously wishing that the market crashes just to justify their decisions of not investing


^^The above post of your's really makes sense.


----------



## IISinbadII

What I am hearing is that there is a shortage of completed apartments that are available for rent. No wonder rents are moving up.


----------



## docc

New rules soon about the number of people allowed to stay in an apartment too


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Not sure if that is good or bad news. On one hand the demand will go up on the other renting 2 and 3 beds could be more difficult as sometimes 2 single professionals might share the rent for a 2 bed.


----------



## docc

Can anyone in the banking/finance sector (HR) confirm if you guys have been receiving an abnormally high number of job applications?

Steve, 3 beds are usually for end users and never great as an investment. Studio's and one beds are soon going to be HOT property.


----------



## IISinbadII

legal eagle said:


> For live, in the now 10% yields today- simple- just go out and buy a discovery gardens unit.
> 
> 1 beds can be picked up for 1-1.1 mill in the real market, and rent for 110 should not e a prob.
> 
> Car parks are filling up there and it looks like its working well. :cheers:


I am also seeing a huge jump in prices for completed studios in Discovery Gardens........ They are now touching the 850k mark.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Discovery Gardens should make a nice 10 yr investment plan with Nakheel Harbour being developed next door. Should be possible to pay off mortgage within 10 years with rent and be left with a strong capital gain also.


----------



## 234sale

you sound like docc at cityscape...

DG will need rebuilding in 12 years,, ?


----------



## docc

234sale said:


> you sound like docc at cityscape...
> 
> DG will need rebuilding in 12 years,, ?


Lol, for those of you who don't know 234sale's reference to me; i told 234sale that property prices in JLT, DG and Marina will go up thanks to NHT being next door.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

234sale said:


> DG will need rebuilding in 12 years,, ?


:lol: I don't think it is that bad! Maintenance will keep the building good for 50 years plus. Maybe you need to do a complete internal refit thats all.


----------



## makerian

IISinbadII said:


> I am also seeing a huge jump in prices for completed studios in Discovery Gardens........ They are now touching the 850k mark.


I think that's just for DG studios which have finance available. The regular ones are still in the 750k range


----------



## docc

Good, that's the way it should be. I'm glad they came back to their senses.


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ The new visa law plus global financial meltdown.......smussuw our dream about Dubai could come true a little early! :lol: :bash:


----------



## smussuw

:cheer::cheer::cheer:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Why do you want your own city and country to fail :dunno:


----------



## docc

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ The new visa law plus global financial meltdown.......smussuw our dream about Dubai could come true a little early! :lol: :bash:


What dream is that?


----------



## smussuw

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Why do you want your own city and country to fail :dunno:


I don't want it to fail and I don't think that will happen but I think that their priorities are wrong so if a crumbling real estate market will be a wakeup call then be it.

They should change their focus from developing cement cities to the development of people!


----------



## IISinbadII

docc said:


> What dream is that?


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=23389322&highlight=empty#post23389322


----------



## Wannaberich

Anyone with any tips on bringing dirhams back to the UK and avoiding/reducing tax payments?


----------



## docc

IISinbadII said:


> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=23389322&highlight=empty#post23389322


Lol, ok.

Well, i really don't blame you Emirati's for thinking this way. I see where it's coming from


----------



## smussuw

^^ Who knows, I might be the only one with those views


----------



## High Times

Dubai_Steve said:


> I am looking to double a cash investment of £100k in 3 years somewhere, any ideas?


Here Steve, try this.

http://www.cmcmarkets.co.uk/

Be carefull it's not for the faint of heart, but it works for me. Tax free too.


----------



## legal eagle

High Times said:


> In the UAE lending will never be as prolific as western economies as Sharia law restricts it.
> 
> To put this into some perspective UK Banks lending to asset ratio is;
> 
> For every £1 held in assets £1.43 is lent. So 143%.
> 
> In the UAE Law restricts lending to 20% of assets held by a Bank. Although I believe the actual figure of most UAE Banks is closer to 10%
> 
> A much more sensible attitude I think.
> 
> Allah Akbar


Maybe so, but it is still a key variable that could push the market further.


----------



## IISinbadII

Seriously, they should make it easy for people to come to UAE to manage their properties, i.e. buy, sell, pick-up keys, furnish, collect rents, inspect, renovate, etc.


----------



## bizzybonita

let's hope for all construction materials to drop ! OR on hold / cancelled Thread will be In traffic for next 5 years


----------



## dubai_or_not

*Economy and markets 'sound' - Sheikh Mohammed*

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/533763-economy-and-markets-sound---sheikh-mohammed?ln=en

The UAE economy is able to weather the global economic slowdown and has not been hit by the credit crisis, the country's prime minister said on Thursday.

Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, also UAE vice president and ruler of Dubai, described the country's economy and markets as "sound" and said they were "doing well", state news agency WAM reported.

Sheikh Mohammed pointed to "huge demand" in all sectors as evidence the UAE was not affected by the global slowdown.
Story continues below ↓
advertisement

"Our national economy, banking sector and financial markets are sound. They draw their strength from a long-term vision, boosted by flexible legislations that protect local and foreign capitals," Sheikh Mohammed said while touring the Cityscape real estate exhibition.

"Our economy and markets are doing well. Our economic history shows the sound vision of the country's leadership and the best example for that is the huge demand witnessed in all sectors, especially real estate."

He said the government was determined to protect the national economy and financial markets.

Sheikh Mohammed’s comments come at the end of a turbulent week in UAE markets.

Fears over the escalating global financial crisis and its impact on the region saw markets in Dubai and Abu Dhabi lose an average of 20 percent in the five days following the Eid Al-Fitr holiday, dragged down by real estate and banking stocks. 

hno::nuts:hno:


----------



## London21

Repeat:
Anyone with any tips on bringing dirhams back to the UK and avoiding/reducing tax payments?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Property market slows in Dubai and Abu Dhabi*

Report says recent market slowdown is much more than the usual seasonal drop-off

Dubai and Abu Dhabi's real estate markets have started to show signs of slowdown, according to fresh figures from the Dubai-based Better Homes property group.

A new report from Better Homes says the slowdown is not caused solely by the present widespread economic woes but that a combination of Dubai government's corruption probe, new mortgage laws and a regular seasonal slowing are all adding to the worries.

According to Niraj Masand, director of commercial operations at Better Homes, the summer and Ramadan are typically the slowest parts of the business year, but activity this quarter is clearly down on the same period in recent years.

“To a certain extent the Dubai property market was anyway overheated and a slight correction was round the corner. The global crisis has made investors slightly more cautious,” he said.

Investor worry about the market situation has not made the Gulf immune from any potential price falls, said Masand. “An estimate would be around a 15% drop for residential prices. A drop is likely in the value of those properties to be delivered two to three years down the line,” he said.

Distress among short-term investors too is showing already, says the report. It cites an example of a commercial building at Dubai Waterfront being sold at a negative premium as global markets squeeze liquidity and local banks rein in any lucrative financial deals. The report says more of this type of sale are likely.

But the drop may only be temporary, depending on market situation. “Anything that will be ready in 2009 will sustain and see even premiums being demanded,” Masand said.

The demand for office space in Dubai outpaced Abu Dhabi during the quarter - especially in sought-after business districts such as Meydan, Dubai Waterfront and Jumeira Lake Towers.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> A new report from Better Homes says the slowdown is not caused solely by the present widespread *economic woes* but that a combination of Dubai government's *corruption probe, new mortgage laws and a regular seasonal slowing* are all adding to the worries.
> 
> Investor worry about the market situation has not made the Gulf immune from any potential price falls, said Masand. “An estimate would be around a 15% drop for residential prices. A drop is likely in the value of those *properties to be delivered two to three years* down the line,” he said.
> 
> Distress among *short-term investors* too is showing already, says the report. It cites an example of a commercial building at Dubai Waterfront being sold at a negative premium as global markets squeeze liquidity and local banks rein in any lucrative financial deals. The report says more of this type of sale are likely.


They identify economic woes, corruption probe, new mortgage laws and a regular seasonal slowing causing slowdown in the off-plan market and distress among flippers. But they don't say that supply is outpacing demand. As long as Dubai continues to attract people there would be a need for housing.


----------



## agod

London21 said:


> Repeat:
> Anyone with any tips on bringing dirhams back to the UK and avoiding/reducing tax payments?


Buy gold in Dubai, and wear it like Del Boy, a bit of bling, a few diamond rings for the wife, and even if you declare it, i think the duty is 17.5% so cheaper than 40% gains, or antiques or collectables, now, I have never actually done this myself, but a few years ago a friend in the states did buy a Dodge Viper, when the price there was $60.000, and £60.000 her in the UK, so he brought it back as a personal car, kept it for few months, and sold at a profit. couldn't do that now, as there is no money about, but put your thinking cap on, and make sure its legal.

Alan


----------



## Garden city

Dubai_Steve said:


> Report says recent market slowdown is much more than the usual seasonal drop-off
> 
> Dubai and Abu Dhabi's real estate markets have started to show signs of slowdown, according to fresh figures from the Dubai-based Better Homes property group.
> 
> A new report from Better Homes says the slowdown is not caused solely by the present widespread economic woes but that a combination of Dubai government's corruption probe, new mortgage laws and a regular seasonal slowing are all adding to the worries.
> 
> According to Niraj Masand, director of commercial operations at Better Homes, the summer and Ramadan are typically the slowest parts of the business year, but activity this quarter is clearly down on the same period in recent years.
> 
> “To a certain extent the Dubai property market was anyway overheated and a slight correction was round the corner. The global crisis has made investors slightly more cautious,” he said.
> 
> Investor worry about the market situation has not made the Gulf immune from any potential price falls, said Masand. “An estimate would be around a 15% drop for residential prices. A drop is likely in the value of those properties to be delivered two to three years down the line,” he said.
> 
> Distress among short-term investors too is showing already, says the report. It cites an example of a commercial building at Dubai Waterfront being sold at a negative premium as global markets squeeze liquidity and local banks rein in any lucrative financial deals. The report says more of this type of sale are likely.
> 
> But the drop may only be temporary, depending on market situation. “Anything that will be ready in 2009 will sustain and see even premiums being demanded,” Masand said.
> 
> The demand for office space in Dubai outpaced Abu Dhabi during the quarter - especially in sought-after business districts such as Meydan, Dubai Waterfront and Jumeira Lake Towers.


Cityscape may have attracted more visitors this year but the interest among investors was low. There are signs of some correction and i can see lot of distress sales being advertised. I know couple of friends who may go for a distressed sale of their property because they cannot afford to pay the next installment. Very bad timing i must say hno:hno:

Atleast this gives an opportunity to some to reconsider their investments and probably do some thinking before they invest. Their is a saying that you should make money when you make the deal, do not anticipate that you will make money in the future. If your deal doesn't make you money right now then it is not a good enough deal.


----------



## Adel

smussuw said:


> yea, go to Bahrain :weirdo:


No need to get mad Bro, take it easy  خليجنا واحد وشعبنا واحد as the song goes :lol:


----------



## smussuw

^^ no am not mad, Bahrain should welcome all of them (u will change ur mind later) :banana::banana:

It might be the opposite mackie1964 :laugh:, a depressed west means more people coming to the flourishing gulf (if it stayed so).


----------



## Morrismarina

Isn't Bahrain was in South America ??


----------



## mackie1964

:lol:

I have been to Qatar and it is really nice 

They are all bloody crooks, they are happy to take your money and then make laws afterwards :lol:


----------



## Adel

........


----------



## Adel

Morrismarina said:


> Isn't Bahrain was in South America ??


WHAT :nuts:


----------



## smussuw

I think Bahrainis think that they are latinos or so ! :shifty:


----------



## bizzybonita

adel i luv that song & i hope they can do a new version at Dubai opera house by 2014 ...or The dream of the unified Gulf currency .


----------



## mackie1964

Which country are you from Bizzy?


----------



## bizzybonita

^^ Did you heard of university of arab country ! i belong to them


----------



## smussuw

I think he belongs to the bubble world !


----------



## mackie1964

:lol:

I know he knows Arabic but he sounds like an Eastern European :dunno:


----------



## smussuw

No, he sounds like someone living in a bubble.

He might be Iraqi? from the way he write Arabic :dunno:


----------



## Garden city

smussuw said:


> ^^ no am not mad, Bahrain should welcome all of them (u will change ur mind later) :banana::banana:
> 
> It might be the opposite mackie1964 :laugh:, a depressed west means more people coming to the flourishing gulf (if it stayed so).


I think there are lot of Brits and many Americans in Bahrain already. But Bahrain has been really careful in making sure that they understand the local culture and respect it. It is good to have people from different nations provided they respect the local culture.

Dubai in its building frenzy did not ( and still does not ) care about the local culture. Apart from culture they even started neglecting their religion. i mean we have had this discussion couple of times before about lack or absence of mosques in newly developed communities etc. etc. Their are lot of talks going arond about national identity crisis but i am sure the govt does not take it as a priority. They have got all their eyes on the money and it doesn't really matter to them who invests in the country as long as those buildings are getting sold.

I am happy that Bahrain understands this and despite the increase in expatriates in the country they have been able to keep their culture intact. Now don't start bashing me about alcohol laws and night clubs in Bahrain, i guess that came because Saudis wanted a place to enjoy themselves :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## smussuw

^^ What about Bahraini females in bikini and eating in Ramadan openly? :laugh:


----------



## mackie1964

Don't start me on those bloody Saudis. If they stop the blind support for the Americans(along with our friends in AD), the financial world would be a much better place :bash:


----------



## Garden city

smussuw said:


> ^^ What about Bahraini females in bikini and eating in Ramadan openly? :laugh:


I don't think that the government has the responsibility to force anyone to follow their own religion. If someone is a muslim then he/she should understand to follow the quran and hadiths but if they aren't then you can't do much.

its like mentioned in quran 'Lakum dinukum waliya deen' i know the context is not same here . But what it really means is that "You follow your religion and i will follow mine".

The government should atleast strive from its side to maintain an islamic environment so that whoever wants or wishes to learn about it then can openly do it. You can't say the same about Dubai because they are least bothered about muslims ( I am not talking UAE nationals ). Mosques are short of space, mosques are few in number etc. etc. It is hard for a muslim to practice his religion here.


----------



## Garden city

Garden city said:


> I don't think that the government has the responsibility to force anyone to follow their own religion. If someone is a muslim then he/she should understand to follow the quran and hadiths but if they aren't then you can't do much.
> 
> its like mentioned in quran 'Lakum dinukum waliya deen' i know the context is not same here . But what it really means is that "You follow your religion and i will follow mine".
> 
> The government should atleast strive from its side to maintain an islamic environment so that whoever wants or wishes to learn about it then can openly do it. You can't say the same about Dubai because they are least bothered about muslims ( I am not talking UAE nationals ). Mosques are short of space, mosques are few in number etc. etc. It is hard for a muslim to practice his religion here.



I think i mentioned the wrong verse. what i was actually referreing to is "la ikraha fi deen" i.e. There is no compulsion in religion.


----------



## Adel

smussuw said:


> ^^ What about Bahraini females in bikini and eating in Ramadan openly? :laugh:


Where did that happen ?


----------



## Mavekris

mackie1964 said:


> Don't start me on those bloody Saudis. If they stop the blind support for the Americans(along with our friends in AD), the financial world would be a much better place :bash:



^^I thought it's america which is supporting Saudi.

Did you watch the movie kingdom by any chance ?

Initial 5 min of the movie explains what saudi is all about.


----------



## Morrismarina

Thanks. Sounds good then. Are there also Russian girls in Bahrain ??


----------



## jeetha

Morrismarina said:


> Apologies...........just been on Google.........I was getting Bahrain confused with Bolivia.
> 
> Anyway, is the Bahrain place tax free ??


“my name is Morris and I am not smarter then a 10 year old”

Say it in camera - 2 - NOW :bash:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Is Morris drunk, perhaps after counting the losses from his shares. :nuts:


----------



## Adel

Morrismarina said:


> Thanks. Sounds good then. Are there also Russian girls in Bahrain ??


He He ..... I don't know about that now, there used to be but not like Dubai.

Actually Bahrain will open up for Russians, Ukrainians, Iranians soon. Indian businessmen are given visas at the airport now. Of course Britons and Americans just come and go as they like.

Bahrain is getting a lot of investment from wealthy Indians right now and other nationalities are expected to follow. Iranians will just throw money at Bahrain if they are allowed to.

Remember Iranians, Russians, Indians, and Britons are the ones who made Dubai what it is now.

Okay now please post in the Bahrain forum, I don't want to overstay my welcome, this is a Dubai property thread after all.


----------



## smussuw

B-Patriot said:


> Whats that got to do with Anything!??? LoLL...
> 
> Girls wearing bikinis.. Its their own business.. And it does happen, yes..
> 
> People eating openly in ramadan... it rarely happens.. As ppl are generally aware it is against the law, and they can be fined for it..
> 
> We have no problem with expats coming to our country cuz we're used to it.. There is a culture of openess and tolerance.. It wouldn't be anything new... Its relatively new for you guys.. Not so much for us..


Indeed, it has nothing to do with anything but Garden city was putting some stuff so I just wanted to add some fire to it :tongue2:

oh and I don't see how Bahrain is more tolerant than the UAE. While Bahranis are more open I don't believe about "the culturing openess and tolerance" u are trying to propagate. We aren't the ones who have bombings and attacks from time to time. We aren't the ones who generalize about a certain nationality (Benghalis) when a crime occur asking to ban all of them from coming. We are not the ones who naturalize Indians and Pakistanis in-order to shift the shite-sunni percentage. We aren't the ones who force a tax on every non-Bahrani employee. We are not the ones who forced MBC to stop broadcasting Big Brother because it was against our ideals. 

Bahrainis are as radical, backward and stubborn as the Emiratis in most of the ways. :cheer:


----------



## Garden city

smussuw said:


> Indeed, it has nothing to do with anything but Garden city was putting some stuff so I just wanted to add some fire to it :tongue2:
> 
> oh and I don't see how Bahrain is more tolerant than the UAE. While Bahranis are more open I don't believe about "the culturing openess and tolerance" u are trying to propagate. We aren't the ones who have bombings and attacks from time to time. We aren't the ones who generalize about a certain nationality (Benghalis) when a crime occur asking to ban all of them from coming. We are not the ones who naturalize Indians and Pakistanis in-order to shift the shite-sunni percentage. Bahranis are as radical, backward and stubborn as the Emiratis in most of the ways.



smussuw, you are taking the debate in a completely different direction. No country is perfect and neither is Bahrain. But i have been to couple of GCC countries since my childhood and Dubai doesn't feel like an Arab country anymore. All because the Govt got too fixated on money and did not bother to grow the people here. We can all see the effects of decisions that were made few years ago and you don't need to be a genius to forsee where Dubai is heading.

People keep talking about the vision and other BS. But i want to ask what is the vision ? To build a city full of skyscrapers? why, what is the intention behind that? if the intention is only to show to the world then i guess the government is chasing the wrong dream and sacrificing lot of other things instead.


----------



## smussuw

^^ am not moving the debate into anything, i was just replying to B-Patriot !


----------



## FWIW

^^What the heck happened????

For a moment I thought I clicked on the wrong thread...

Docc - You are not alone. Although others have made some good points as to why things can go wrong, there are still some people left that have an understanding of the fundamentals of Dubai. I am also confident in Big Mo and I am sure he has my back...

FWIW


----------



## makerian

FWIW said:


> ^^What the heck happened????
> I am also confident in Big Mo and I am sure he has my back...
> 
> FWIW


And who's got his back? :nuts:


----------



## Garden city

smussuw said:


> ^^ am not moving the debate into anything, i was just replying to B-Patriot !


got it kay:


----------



## FWIW

I am sure the ruler of AD and President of UAE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalifa_bin_Zayed_Al_Nahyan

If you ask me who's got his back - I'll scream!!! LOL


----------



## makerian

FWIW said:


> I am sure the ruler of AD and President of UAE:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalifa_bin_Zayed_Al_Nahyan
> 
> If you ask me who's got his back - I'll scream!!! LOL


Ha Ha. U've got it right and I think AD has more lucrative opportunities goin forward. :cheers:


----------



## docc

The federal govt is going to step in anytime it sees something going seriously wrong. If Dubai crashes, then the image of UAE will get tarnished which Abu Dhabi cannot afford to let happen.

Guys, these are undeniably the cities of the future and the Govt has invested a lot to get to where they are today. Their futures depend on what is happening today and they absolutely CANNOT have anything go wrong.

Let me give you a simple example. First, there were articles about how there would be an oversupply of apartments which would lead to a correction in the market. Almost at the same time, the one villa - one family rule was instated. Put 2 and 2 together now 

If you are going to think 10 times before investing say a million dirhams, imagine how many times over Sheikh Mohammed is going to think before investing hundreds of billions of dollars. He probably has a 100 analysts working simultaneously round the clock to ensure that the market is stable. He's a great visionary and he has all made us a lot of money (god bless him), so have so more faith guys people, oh and some patience too .

Dubai's "oil" is real estate; its that simple.


----------



## B-Patriot

smussuw said:


> Indeed, it has nothing to do with anything but Garden city was putting some stuff so I just wanted to add some fire to it :tongue2:
> 
> oh and I don't see how Bahrain is more tolerant than the UAE. While Bahranis are more open I don't believe about "the culturing openess and tolerance" u are trying to propagate. We aren't the ones who have bombings and attacks from time to time. We aren't the ones who generalize about a certain nationality (Benghalis) when a crime occur asking to ban all of them from coming. We are not the ones who naturalize Indians and Pakistanis in-order to shift the shite-sunni percentage. We aren't the ones who force a tax on every non-Bahrani employee. We are not the ones who forced MBC to stop broadcasting Big Brother because it was against our ideals.
> 
> Bahrainis are as radical, backward and stubborn as the Emiratis in most of the ways. :cheer:



TRUST ME... Compared to u guys.. We truely have a culture of tolerance.. 

Compared to most of the Gulf in fact.. 

Ppl and expats sometimes say that 'yeah, we heard bahrain is liberal' .. Its not that its liberal i always say.. True, we have a larger 'powerful' liberal minority than other gulf counrties.. But its about ppl being tolerant about the existence of alcohol, or clubs, as long as u don't throw it in their face.. Ppl are tolerant of expats.. Of their attitudes... Etc..

You are mixing a lot of things together, which make for a seemingly good argument, but not really... 

Politics in Bahrain are MUCHHHH more complicated than politics in the UAE where ppl know very little about democracy, and political life..

This is truely reflected in ur leaders vote of confidence in the people, when they decided to have elections where only a Very small tiny minority of mostly educated emaratis can vote and run.. Politically aware ones..

Bombings?? LoL... Nice... a bit of an exaggeration, don't u think...

Generalizations about Benghalis?? Well.. It was a mistake that was quickly corrected.. Visas being issued to benghalis were suspended for a short time.. They weren't Banned!

Naturalizing indians and pakistani's... Well... Again.. You're mixing something very political with what i called a 'culture of tolerance'... If an Indian or Pakistani has lived long enough in Bahrain, of course they deserve to be naturalized.. You guys don't believe in that i guess, and all emirati's would probably agree with their leaders in not granting those indians/****'s the nationality..

However, ask any bahraini u stop on the road.. Whether sunni, shiite, Bahaii, Jewish, whatever.. None of them will say 'Yes, lets change the demographic, lets have politically motivated naturalizations'... LoL..

So you can't use that as an argument...

Taxing non-bahraini employees.. Hmm.. There's always been a fee u pay for expat employees.. I believe that exists almost everywhere...

Plus, its a way to further the bahrainisation strategy.. To make bahrainis more cost-effective or attractive.. How can that relate to intolerance.. LoL..

You truely make me laugh smussuw.. and u have very strange views... Not un-intelligent ones, but twisted.. to suit ur beliefs...

Big brother?? Why do u think they chose bahrain to host it.. Cuz of the culture of tolerance.. However, we failed them of course... Do u know why??

Do u think its so black and white? 

Like i said.. we have somewhat complicated politics compared to ur purely authoritarian dictator-style government...

Whenever we have real issues.. political issues... certain parties of interest come up with different ways to distract ppl from these issues.. By making them worry about big brothr.. or demonstrate against nancy ajram...

Even some of those civil disobedience acts that go on which u referred to as 'bombings'... some of them are stirred of... 'mofta3aleen'... For different political reasons..

I think what i said now should suffice for the time being.. :cheers:


----------



## IISinbadII

I am confused now. What is the consensus after all this discussion:

A-There is no correction in sight.
B-Things have actually slowed down.
C-Shaikh Mohammad will save the day.
D-We should all move to Bahrain.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ B+C


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Global funds could lift UAE realty*

A massive capital injection by global real estate fund managers could lift Dubai's real estate market, which many analysts feel is heading for a correction.

"As the prospects of the US and UK housing markets remain gloomy, global real estate fund managers are expected to inject cash into the UAE's property market, and we expect it to give the boost it needs in the coming months," Iseeb Rehman, managing director of Sherwoods, told Gulf News on Thursday, the last day of Cityscape Dubai.

"We have been approached by a number of officials running international real estate funds, for possible investment. This will boost the market in the coming months that we expect to slow down otherwise."

*Sellers' market *

Dubai's real estate market, which has seen more than Dh600 billion worth of new project announcements during the four-day event, is flooded with more sellers than buyers. This is expected to bring prices down further.

"The pace of sale has been slower in recent weeks. It is not clear if the market is going to go through a difficult situation," Rehman said.

"There is an increasing number of investors who want to exit the market."

He said the ratio between investors and end-users used to be 60:40 in favour of the investors or brokers. 

"This has changed suddenly, which is good for the market as the real buyers will now enter the market to buy properties to live in."

Colliers International, the global real estate consultancy, said quarterly overall growth rate slowed from 42 per cent in the first quarter of 2008 to 16 per cent in the second quarter, representing an increase from 178 to 206 points on the underlying index. 

Ian Albert, Colliers regional director, said: "If you consider the performance of other major cities over the same period, Dubai offered attractive returns in comparison. Looking forward, we expect a return to fundamentals as the demand-supply dynamic moves towards equilibrium."

According to Rehman, these factors make the UAE's real estate market still attractive compared to the US and European markets.

As Dubai's red-hot property market cools down, a lot of fly-by-night operators are expected to disappear, said a senior official of a brokerage firm.

*Caution*

"There are lots of developers, who do not have the right credentials, trying to attract buyers. Investors should do due diligence before putting their money in, so that they do not burn their fingers," M. Kaleem Khan, chief executive of NKR Properties, told Gulf News. 

"The days of making a quick buck are gone. In the coming days the real picture will become clear."

He said villas from renowned developers are still a good buy.

"Projects developed by major developers such as Emaar, Nakheel, Dubai Properties, Aldar, Sorouh and Hydra will continue to appreciate. 

"So end-users have nothing to lose or worry, even if the market corrects itself," Khan said.

"Don't look for short-term gains. Look for long-term real value," he said.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/533805-75-would-not-invest-in-gulf-real-estate-sector?ln=en

Cityscape Dubai may have broken all records for visitor numbers this year but the results of an Arabian Business poll suggests widespread pessimism still exists about the Gulf real estate market.

The property show attracted more than 70,000 visitors over four days earlier this week and organisers were forced to extend opening hours in a bid to meet customer demand.

Billions of dirhams of real estate business deals were signed during the show but 75 percent of Arabian Business readers said they would not put pen to paper to buy property at the moment.

Their views came as a Colliers International report predicted that house prices in Dubai are expected to remain flat until 2010 following five years of sharp gains.

Around 140,000 new homes in Dubai are expected to be completed by 2010, adding to an existing stock of around 300,000 units the real estate broker's report said.

And with that in mind, three quarters of respondents to our online poll - which ran during Cityscape - indicated that it was the wrong time to enter the Gulf real estate market.

Of those, 51 percent through the global slowdown, which has crippled property sectors in the US and UK, would soon have a "big impact" on the Gulf region, meaning any investment would not be wise.

A further 24 percent said they were adopting a "wait and see" policy because so much uncertainty surrounded the global and Gulf financial picture.

But organisers of Cityscape insisted confidence in the real estate sector was high and there was a huge international audience who were interested in investing.

Nine percent of respondents to our poll agreed. They said that the doom mongers predicting a big crash in local property markets should not be taken seriously and they believed prices in the Gulf would continue to rise.

Another 16 percent of respondents agreed that prices would keep on an upward trend but that the rate of return on investments might not match previous years.

A second report by Colliers International earlier this week revealed rampant inflation and a booming economy resulted in house prices in Dubai rocketing by 76 percent in the year to June.

But its House Price Index for Dubai showed house price growth slowed from 42 percent in first quarter of 2008 to 16 percent in the second quarter of the year, fuelling fears the market is heading for a slowdown. 

Dubai house prices to remain flat until 2010
UPDATE 1: Colliers says no drop in demand, but has seen slowdown in value appreciation.


----------



## smussuw

B-Patriot said:


> TRUST ME... Compared to u guys.. We truely have a culture of tolerance..
> 
> Compared to most of the Gulf in fact..
> 
> Ppl and expats sometimes say that 'yeah, we heard bahrain is liberal' .. Its not that its liberal i always say.. True, we have a larger 'powerful' liberal minority than other gulf counrties.. But its about ppl being tolerant about the existence of alcohol, or clubs, as long as u don't throw it in their face.. Ppl are tolerant of expats.. Of their attitudes... Etc..
> 
> You are mixing a lot of things together, which make for a seemingly good argument, but not really...
> 
> Politics in Bahrain are MUCHHHH more complicated than politics in the UAE where ppl know very little about democracy, and political life..
> 
> This is truely reflected in ur leaders vote of confidence in the people, when they decided to have elections where only a Very small tiny minority of mostly educated emaratis can vote and run.. Politically aware ones..
> 
> Bombings?? LoL... Nice... a bit of an exaggeration, don't u think...
> 
> Generalizations about Benghalis?? Well.. It was a mistake that was quickly corrected.. Visas being issued to benghalis were suspended for a short time.. They weren't Banned!
> 
> Naturalizing indians and pakistani's... Well... Again.. You're mixing something very political with what i called a 'culture of tolerance'... If an Indian or Pakistani has lived long enough in Bahrain, of course they deserve to be naturalized.. You guys don't believe in that i guess, and all emirati's would probably agree with their leaders in not granting those indians/****'s the nationality..
> 
> However, ask any bahraini u stop on the road.. Whether sunni, shiite, Bahaii, Jewish, whatever.. None of them will say 'Yes, lets change the demographic, lets have politically motivated naturalizations'... LoL..
> 
> So you can't use that as an argument...
> 
> Taxing non-bahraini employees.. Hmm.. There's always been a fee u pay for expat employees.. I believe that exists almost everywhere...
> 
> Plus, its a way to further the bahrainisation strategy.. To make bahrainis more cost-effective or attractive.. How can that relate to intolerance.. LoL..
> 
> You truely make me laugh smussuw.. and u have very strange views... Not un-intelligent ones, but twisted.. to suit ur beliefs...
> 
> Big brother?? Why do u think they chose bahrain to host it.. Cuz of the culture of tolerance.. However, we failed them of course... Do u know why??
> 
> Do u think its so black and white?
> 
> Like i said.. we have somewhat complicated politics compared to ur purely authoritarian dictator-style government...
> 
> Whenever we have real issues.. political issues... certain parties of interest come up with different ways to distract ppl from these issues.. By making them worry about big brothr.. or demonstrate against nancy ajram...
> 
> Even some of those civil disobedience acts that go on which u referred to as 'bombings'... some of them are stirred of... 'mofta3aleen'... For different political reasons..
> 
> I think what i said now should suffice for the time being.. :cheers:


Yea, while I agree that many of those stuff are politically motivated, they do show lack of ur so called tolerance. Maybe I mixed tolerance toward expatriates to tolerance in general to prove my point but still. On my visit to Bahrain the first thing I saw was a guy (sunni) yelling from his car to a kid selling stuff to car drivers by saying oh Shia and started irretating him and laughed with his friend about it.

Bahrain is as stoned as the UAE, you might have a powerful liberal minority which the UAE lack (thank God) but the general public are as backward as us from what I've seen (proud) :laugh: Not every Bahraini have a Lexus or is half Irish like urself !

ur Secular Socialist party isn't very popular for a reason


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> On my visit to Bahrain the first thing I saw was a guy (sunni) yelling from his car to a kid selling stuff to car drivers by saying oh Shia and started irretating him and laughed with his friend about it.


^^ What a stupid thing to do. In Bahrain Shia are in majority but they are not given their due rights. :bash:


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> Anything that cost more than 500 AED psf is over-exaggerated. Why? Because I said so :runaway:


Yes, I agree but only if dirham is revalued 5 fold. :lol:


----------



## docc

iced said:


> No offence taken and of course you make some valid points. Singapore crashed 80%. The prices you mention are still too high. 2500aed means that a 1 bed costs 2.5million. Still way too high. Since 2005 prices have increased too much too fast and what goes up must come down. Once it starts to will move fast.
> 
> 10-15% falls is nothing. You can get that by buying from resales rather than buying direct from the developer. The prices increases were caused by hot money and that will flow to the next hotspot. Dubai property has been behaving as if it were a dotcom stock and will now have to return to earth.
> 
> Price falls are not a bad thing but demonstrate that markets are functioning properly. There is a huge amount of new projects coming out. Such pace is unstainable and prices will fall and then rise as is the normal property cycle.
> 
> In the meantime the infrastructure will continue to be built.


2500/Sft for downtown is expensive? I really don't think so! In any case it would be very difficult to find an apartment at this price in DBD today. If you do, grab it as you would have instantly made a 20% profit!

You'd be surprised but seeing even a 10-15% drop would be an issue. I'm looking at a few distressed sales here and there but haven't seen any standard widespread price correction so far. Buying from resale can actually give you a 40% cheaper deal simply because you're paying an upfront premium while with the developer you have the freedom to pay according to a plan. That's really nothing new, but tell me this; are you going to see a 10-15% drop in prices in the resale market? Unlikely.

Dubai can't really be compared with any other property market simply because of the level of govt intervention to keep the market stable and running. All the naysayer's talking about major corrections and crashes are sooooo going to be proven wrong and secondly kicking themselves for not capitializing on this opportunity!

With construction costs coming down, the market will become healthier as properties can now be priced cheaper.

You see the glass as half empty and i see it as half full! Drink up! :cheers:


----------



## malec

IISinbadII said:


> Can you think of new projects that are coming along SZR. BB is all desert and will take a long time to establish. What else is there?


Jumeirah Gardens


----------



## docc

smussuw said:


> Anything that cost more than 500 AED psf is over-exaggerated. Why? Because I said so :runaway:


smussuw for president! lol....


----------



## bizzybonita

smussuw said:


> Anything that cost more than 500 AED psf is over-exaggerated. Why? Because I said so :runaway:


are you talking about your'e own wallet or UAE real estate Wallet or your'e talking about 80's ...


----------



## smussuw

^^ in the 1980s it was probably less than 50 AED psf 



IISinbadII said:


> Yes, I agree but only if dirham is revalued 5 fold. :lol:


Houses are still being built at a rate 200-300 AED psf btw


----------



## bizzybonita

malec said:


> Jumeirah Gardens


my vote with you :cheers:


----------



## docc

Average construction cost:

Land - depending on location 400+/Sft
Actual construction - 300/Sft
Marketing etc - 200/Sft

So typically, one can still construct a building at 900/Sft. These were the figures quoted to me sometime back by a friend. Someone correct me if i'm wrong please.


----------



## mackie1964

smussuw said:


> ^^ in the 1980s it was probably less than 50 AED psf
> 
> 
> Houses are still being built at a rate 200-300 AED psf btw


AED450 to 500 minimum I would say :dunno: Less for high risers of course :cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

GOD BLESS GULF AREA FOR NEXT 10 YEARS "IF THERE IS NO WAR " :runaway:


----------



## dlnash

docc said:


> Lol, i own property there too OTL, but my reference to over inflated prices was not pertaining to completed property; rather the new launches by Emaar at 5000-7000/Sft. These are unsustainable figures....for now....and hence will see a correction. Anyone who has purchased at less than 2500/Sft is SAFE and will actually see prices going up to the range of 3500-4000/Sft and then settling down for a bit. Please bear in mind that the figures i am quoting are for Residential units and NOT commercial property as thats a completely different ball game!


I have to agree with docc.. As long as a unit offers good rental yields with respect to the current prices. Ppl are still going to invest. Interest rates are going to go down further, there is no point of keeping money in the bank, property in the US and europe will take some time to recover, infact they still haven't reached their lowest point yet (they're expected to fall further). Stocks are down the drain, no one will invest there.. On the other hand, rents are going up in dubai and if a property can offer atleast 10% rental yield, I would definately want to invest there, even though prices might be stagnant or fall a little in the short term. It's all got to do with the rental yields now, the times of quick capital appreciation are gone I still think there are lots of properties which offer good rental yields + good capital appreciation. Properties in DBD will obviously command premium rents, just let the burj tower complete. Look at properties on palm jumeirah, as soon as the palm got completed, the market realised that it is a high premium location and prices shot up. In my view, investing in DBD or palm jumeirah is a relatively safer investment instead of going for cheap hotspots, these areas will always be in demand no matter what's the global or real estate scenario, even if prices fall, you can easily rent out your units in DBD or palm jumeirah. You then just have to wait and eat the rent till the mkt recovers.


----------



## smussuw

mackie1964 said:


> AED450 to 500 minimum I would say :dunno: Less for high risers of course :cheers:


I know guys building a 4 bedrooms one floor house for 700,000. Not sure about the exact rate though !


----------



## docc

Let's see, a 4 BR single floor place should be around atleast 3500/Sft. So at 700k for that, it means 200/Sft for construction. Wow, are you sure about that?


----------



## heatstor

IISinbadII said:


> I am confused now. What is the consensus after all this discussion:
> 
> A-There is no correction in sight.
> B-Things have actually slowed down.
> C-Shaikh Mohammad will save the day.
> D-We should all move to Bahrain.


Here is the problem with point D. 
Bahrain is more than 100 times smaller than UAE. Forget UAE, it can't even accomodate half of Dubai. With all due respect to the forumers from Bahrain, comparing the two countries is like comparing apples to oranges and I frankly find it amusing.


----------



## 234sale




----------



## Mavekris

docc said:


> Let's see, a 4 BR single floor place should be around atleast 3500/Sft. So at 700k for that, it means 200/Sft for construction. Wow, are you sure about that?


^^yea it is possible if one picks the stuff from dragon mart, there are lot of local buying construction stuff there.

Chinese are doing good business there


----------



## rags

Morrismarina said:


> I assume you mean *registration* fee.
> 
> I'm not so sure about this, surely the Land Dept would require the fee at the point the property is registered. I've never heard of a Land Registry asking for fees retrospectively before.
> 
> Sounds to me like Cayan haven't got a clue about all this. hno:


My understanding is that the Real estate (land plus units) is first registered (interim register or otherwise) in the land Registry books. This is the Registration part when a fee is collected from the developer/sub-developer. When sales / resales are made, Transfers are effected. This is when Transfer fees are collected.

What I understand from Cayan is that the Registration process, a massive amount of work, is currently on. When that is completed, the Transfers (to Purchasers) will also be, for want of a better term, 'registered' in the books. That is when Transfer fee will be collected. 

My own suggestion to Cayan has been that they facilitate this 'Transfer' part by collecting the fee from Purchasers and paying to Land Registry directly rather than have the Purchasers approach the land registry individually to have their units 'registered'.


----------



## 234sale

Interim Registration is only 370AED paid for by developer.. No resale fee what so ever.

From what I understand the Goverment want to see who is buying, how much is actually being paid and how many transactions are occuring.

Useful data.


----------



## B-Patriot

smussuw said:


> Yea, while I agree that many of those stuff are politically motivated, they do show lack of ur so called tolerance. Maybe I mixed tolerance toward expatriates to tolerance in general to prove my point but still. On my visit to Bahrain the first thing I saw was a guy (sunni) yelling from his car to a kid selling stuff to car drivers by saying oh Shia and started irretating him and laughed with his friend about it.
> 
> Bahrain is as stoned as the UAE, you might have a powerful liberal minority which the UAE lack (thank God) but the general public are as backward as us from what I've seen (proud) :laugh: Not every Bahraini have a Lexus or is half Irish like urself !
> 
> ur Secular Socialist party isn't very popular for a reason


Again, what u saw is not soo common as u might think.. Unless u were driving into some shanty village... I'm surprised at what u've seen.. Of course there'll always be plenty of uneducated ppl all over the arab world, sadly.. They are not the type of ppl i socialize with..

Its like with Lebanon.. If u tried to compare Lebanon with Emirati's... Ppl would just laugh... Of course they are Far more tolerant.. But they have lots of shit going on in their country.. All politically motivated... So 'bombings' isn't the best argument...

The secular sociatlist party is popular enough.. The region is going through phases... Of.. Nationalis... Pan Arabism.. A communist wave emerged.. Then Baathist... Now the Islamist.. But the Socialists remain.. An adaptation of the communists of the 50's and 60's and so on... 

As to their performance in the elections.. I won't bother explaining.. We have complicated politics.. But at least we have it.. We have something to talk about.. We have exciting elections... Well.. Exciting and dissappointing at the same time.. Hehe.. But u have to start somewhere...


----------



## bizzybonita

IISinbadII said:


> I am confused now. What is the consensus after all this discussion:
> 
> A-There is no correction in sight.
> B-Things have actually slowed down.
> C-Shaikh Mohammad will save the day.
> D-We should all move to Bahrain.


Is there *all of the above* OR *not all of the above*:nuts: 

someone was cooked " He should know that Soak the rice before cooking it addresses the neurological disorder " some fire topic and runaway ...


----------



## Smokeey

A stock-trader friend of mine in London said that he's become so used to the massive downturn of the FTSE that anything less than a 2% drop is considered a 'boring' day!


----------



## Monument

Such exciting friends you have.


----------



## IISinbadII

Richard Head said:


> OK, I will give anyone 5000 Dirhams if they can provide a translation of that that makes any sense whatsoever. It's like it's been run through a translation algorithm from Arabic to German to Japanese to something spoken in a distant galaxy then to English. :lol:




Bizzy wrote:

Is there all of the above OR not all of the above 

someone was cooked " He should know that Soak the rice before cooking it addresses the neurological disorder " some fire topic and runaway ...

Translation:

Some of those who started this topic have not answered your questions. There should have been other choices like "All of the above" or "None of the above".

Someone making rice should know that soaking them in water makes them soft and easier to cook (rather than staying stiff....like a patient of Parkinson's disease, a neurological disorder). 

Similarly, adding "all of the above" or "none of the above" would have made it easier to answer. 

----------

^^ I cant believe I did it, again. BTW, I want the 5000 all in cash.


----------



## i love dubai

I am so impressed by bizzy, I think he or she knows more than any of us in this forum. Sometimes his English is perfect and when it is not, I believe he or she does it on purpose just to play with our minds. Bizzy, who are you? I reallly want to know.:nuts:


----------



## Mavekris

I support Bizzy as moderator

He spends a lot of time on the forum 24/7.POsting Good articles from various sources.

Bizzy you rock mate


----------



## Richard Head

With all the doom and gloom about a slowdown in Dubai Real Estate, it's interesting to note as we move past Ramadan that properties in premium areas (completed property) that have always been in demand, the prices are already inching up. Ok I appreciate there may be a world of difference between asking prices and what properties actually sell for, but nevertheless this seems to be what is happening.

Specifically Saheel on Ranches and Shoreline apartments, these are the ones I watch closely because these are what I own. There seems to be very limited availability on these, and asking prices seem to have started to increase again just in the last 2-3 weeks.

Discuss........................


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Richard Head said:


> With all the doom and gloom about a slowdown in Dubai Real Estate, it's interesting to note as we move past Ramadan that properties in premium areas (completed property) that have always been in demand, the prices are already inching up. Ok I appreciate there may be a world of difference between asking prices and what properties actually sell for, but nevertheless this seems to be what is happening.
> 
> Specifically Saheel on Ranches and Shoreline apartments, these are the ones I watch closely because these are what I own. There seems to be very limited availability on these, and asking prices seem to have started to increase again just in the last 2-3 weeks.
> 
> Discuss........................


I agree - completed property is inching up right now in the Dubai Marina. Avialbility is limited. I am not sure about off-plan - seems like no movement.


----------



## 234sale

Morning Morten








BB price from BH report oct


----------



## Morten_Denmark

234sale said:


> Morning Morten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BB price from BH report oct


Goodmorning Sale (yes, it was 4 am for me  )

Approx 2300 Aed psf in average for BB - seems realistic I think. Off course there are big differences.

On a side note - I talked to a friend about comic books which I loved as a kid. I showed him my old old collection of Spiderman - we went on the internet to see what such comic books are worth for collectors - now 1000 times more worth  The point ? Sell real estate and buy Donald Duck :nuts:


----------



## 234sale

4am,, Going to bed, or waking up


----------



## Daflanger

*Why are developers still not following the law?*

RERA have come up with many new laws yet many developers are there feel that they are above the law and investors are always stuck with nothing to protect them. 

Developers and becoming cheeky and feel that RERA cannot protect us! Everytime a change needs to be done, some developers ask for an official letter from RERA!!!! Why do you need an official letter from RERA when this is the LAW!!!!

LAW no. 8 and LAW no. 13 are clear yet the developers ask for official letters???? This is a joke!!! RERA should make it clear to developers that no official letters are needed!

My example is that my developer has PDC cheques from me for payments to be made for a delayed project. My payments accoding to the PDC Cheques will end in May 2009 and my apartment will only be handed to me in July 2011. I have been fighting with the developer to get the cheques back and they refuse!!! I asked RERA about this and they said they must be returned immediately as the developer is not acting according to law no. 8! 

So I told the developer and still got a refusal??? So I went on radio with RERA and they said that the developer does not have the right to hold my cheques and must return them!!!! The Developer heard the radio conversion and STILL refused to return my cheques!!!

They told me to get an official letter from RERA????? This is ridiculous!!! Tomorrow they will tell me to get a representative from RERA with me as well??

Why do developers fell they are above the law???


----------



## FWIW

Morten_Denmark said:


> Goodmorning Sale (yes, it was 4 am for me  )
> 
> Approx 2300 Aed psf in average for BB - seems realistic I think. Off course there are big differences.
> 
> On a side note - I talked to a friend about comic books which I loved as a kid. I showed him my old old collection of Spiderman - we went on the internet to see what such comic books are worth for collectors - now 1000 more worth  The point ? Sell real estate and buy Donald Duck :nuts:


Yeah - SPIDERMAN!!!!!:banana:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o29VoxtsFk


----------



## 234sale

RERA have alot of work to do, property court will be open soon.

Not all developers, its just a few which can't be civil or honest.

I merged you thread to the investment thread, we dont need this in the main forum.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

234sale said:


> 4am,, Going to bed, or waking up


Waking up - I am a work-alcoholic and only sleeps 4 hrs tops  

Massive increases on the European stock exhanges today. Banks very positive now. Friday they adviced you to narrow down your debth - today they realize that they live from people owing them money - and now want you to NOT narrow down your debth. Bankers are such a bunch of hysteric .....


----------



## Wannaberich

So whats the general viewpoint out there regards to property prices?
Is it still to early after Ramadan/Cityscape to know if things are going to slow down?
With all the money now being lent by various goverments,stock markets up etc,is this going to avoid a correction in the Dubai market for the time being?
Have just put a unit on the market which will complete in Jan/Feb 2009.Am now thinking 
should I stretch myself financially and see it through to completion or just before?Dont want to hang onto it to find its worth the same in 4 months.


----------



## Richard Head

^^ My personal view is that all completed villas, and completed apartments in premium locations will continue to grow in price, albeit much more slowly than in the first 9 months of this year. Other apartments not in premium locations (which I would limit to Marina, Palm and Burj Dubai) might be flat or drop slightly and slowly.

Off plan activity will be as good as dead unless some significant bargains appear well below the current offerings.

That said, was in Nakheel offices this morning to pay my service charge. They have a big launch of Villas on Palm Jumeirah called "the original collection". The launch was extremely busy but hard to know if anyone was actually buying. Probably at the high end like this there are still plenty of high net worth individuals who will get in the game at the 20 million+++ price range.


----------



## 234sale

FWIW said:


> Bradford & Bingley doing well I see at 31p. HBOS 202p - RBS - 202p


So whats the share price now FWIW 

HBOS 95.80 -28.40 -22.87% 
ROYAL BK SCOTL GR 54.90 -16.80 -23.43% 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764&page=357

No one has a model for whats going on.


----------



## Naz UK

When the "property court" opens, the first people that should be tried are RERA.


----------



## FWIW

234sale said:


> So whats the share price now FWIW
> 
> HBOS 95.80 -28.40 -22.87%
> ROYAL BK SCOTL GR 54.90 -16.80 -23.43%
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764&page=357
> 
> No one has a model for whats going on.


Sale - you should know better not to open up old wounds...hno:

It is painful for everyone...


----------



## 234sale

Sorry,, just remembered the thread.

Anyway

I'm going off to BB in a moment to take photo's as I noticed Its been a month for some threads.


----------



## FWIW

Sale - Please, please, please go and have a look at Bay Central for me (one day when you feel like it - no pressure or anything!)!!! Go into Oasis beach tower hotel 33rd floor tell 'em that I sent you if they ask...
Just take a picture or two so that I can see what if anything they have done!!!

:cheers:


----------



## 234sale

Ok,, but I will try.

Is it behind the Oasis Beach towers/ Al Fatium Towers

I am not a Marina specialist,, I know 25% but not as well as Imre


----------



## Northstar

Hello Guys,

I'm a new investor in dubai, came across this site while doing some research. I'm hoping you guys can help me.

I have a invested with some friends in the JBC 9 - H3, in JLT. We purchased a floor of office space. I am looking to sell this off, but given the uncertainty in the market, I don't know what to do. My next payment is not due until Nov'09.

Please advise, If I should sell now or not. If so, what type of p[remium could I get??

Thank you in advance for your help.


----------



## 234sale

got it









Last pic of Bay central..from the Bay Central Thread

On my way now. 234sale on a mission for FWIW..


----------



## FWIW

Yeah - they are the Al Fattan towers - the OBH Tower is the one on the left (with the sea behind you). 

On 33rd floor is a show apartment (has a balcony that has a view over palm), just walk in (confidently - like you own the gaff) go to bullet lifts and have a nice time taking loads of pictures for us!

You can go higher in the building but then the portrait of big mo will block your view.


----------



## docc

Northstar said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> I'm a new investor in dubai, came across this site while doing some research. I'm hoping you guys can help me.
> 
> I have a invested with some friends in the JBC 9 - H3, in JLT. We purchased a floor of office space. I am looking to sell this off, but given the uncertainty in the market, I don't know what to do. My next payment is not due until Nov'09.
> 
> Please advise, If I should sell now or not. If so, what type of p[remium could I get??
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help.


Since you're payment is not due until a whole year, why bother selling it now unless you have an alternate and more lucrative investment lined up. What you're seeing in the market is only temporary and things should settle down in a month or two so i don't think you should make a decision based on today's market condition. JLT sells on an average of 1350 - 2200/Sft with the latter being for completed or close to completion property.

Good luck with your investment


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> ^^ My personal view is that all completed villas, and completed apartments in premium locations will continue to grow in price, albeit much more slowly than in the first 9 months of this year. Other apartments not in premium locations (which I would limit to Marina, Palm and Burj Dubai) might be flat or drop slightly and slowly.
> 
> Off plan activity will be as good as dead unless some significant bargains appear well below the current offerings.
> 
> That said, was in Nakheel offices this morning to pay my service charge. They have a big launch of Villas on Palm Jumeirah called "the original collection". The launch was extremely busy but hard to know if anyone was actually buying. Probably at the high end like this there are still plenty of high net worth individuals who will get in the game at the 20 million+++ price range.


Mine isnt a prime location(DSO)but its by Tameer which must count for something.
Am I right in thinking,during the last two months of construction and on completion,there could be a healthy increase,and selling 4/5 months out as I am doing may be a little early?


----------



## docc

My advice is to put it on the market 2 months before completion. If you put it too far out, then you can't expect to get the premium that you would towards completion.


----------



## docc

Hmmmm, so i just got this tasty bit of information from my friend who just finished training to be a certified agent.

According to RERA, the boom will continue for a period of another 7 years. Population is set to double by 2015 and one of the main reasons for this is the agreement between our Govt and the Chinese Govt to have about 1 Million Chinese brought to the UAE to work in all sectors. The split is like this, 200,000 labourers, 400,000 middle income group and 400,000 for the rest. I don't know if that bloody genius or not, but its amazing to see the level of planning and forethought on the part of the Govt!

Anyone heard anything similar?


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> Hmmmm, so i just got this tasty bit of information from my friend who just finished training to be a certified agent.
> 
> According to RERA, the boom will continue for a period of another 7 years. Population is set to double by 2015 and one of the main reasons for this is the agreement between our Govt and the Chinese Govt to have about 1 Million Chinese brought to the UAE to work in all sectors. The split is like this, 200,000 labourers, 400,000 middle income group and 400,000 for the rest. I don't know if that bloody genius or not, but its amazing to see the level of planning and forethought on the part of the Govt!
> 
> Anyone heard anything similar?


Thanks for the advice docc.
Regards Chinese workers.If we take it this is true,I would assume investors into the Dubai market would need to know this to have a postive effect.
Investors who may be worried about oversupply,would be more likely to buy into Dubai property/not sell their units,if they knew all these people were coming?


----------



## docc

delete


----------



## docc

Exactly. If this is true, then oversupply could be practically non-existent. A million people over the next 6 years would equate to 155,000 chinese per year. Now, if you take an average of 3 per family (one child rule in China), this would mean that there would be a requirement of 51,000 units a year for the Chinese alone! Now add people from other countries and you can see where i am going with this.

This is definitely good news for investors.


----------



## FWIW

Yes, I have heard something very similar earlier this year. Although at the time I thought it was the cheap labour they required to help build all the gigantic projects.

What you have told us makes sense; hopefully a win-win situation for both UAE and Chinese people.


----------



## dlnash

docc said:


> Hmmmm, so i just got this tasty bit of information from my friend who just finished training to be a certified agent.
> 
> According to RERA, the boom will continue for a period of another 7 years. Population is set to double by 2015 and one of the main reasons for this is the agreement between our Govt and the Chinese Govt to have about 1 Million Chinese brought to the UAE to work in all sectors. The split is like this, 200,000 labourers, 400,000 middle income group and 400,000 for the rest. I don't know if that bloody genius or not, but its amazing to see the level of planning and forethought on the part of the Govt!
> 
> Anyone heard anything similar?


Oh so that explains why....hmm 

"China Security & Surveillance Technology (CSST) will list on the Dubai International Financial Exchange (DIFX) on 13 October, in a move considered to be the first in wave of dual-listings in the region by firms from the Far East"


----------



## Wannaberich

I agree its good news but like I said,this needs to be common knowledge in Dubai so that investors etc feel more confident about the market.


----------



## jamjaruk

*Not-so-hot property*

Source: economist.com

Is Dubai being hit by the turmoil?

YOU may have thought that if anywhere would be insulated from the financial chaos, it would be Dubai, the ritzy commercial capital of the oil-rich Gulf. Not so. Events across the world are causing pain there too, even though much of the emirate’s cash has not made its way to the banks; it is held by ruling families and in their sovereign wealth funds.

Dubai’s oil revenues are small. Sheikh Muhammad bin Rashid al-Maktoum, the energetic ruler of the second largest emirate of the seven that make up the United Arab Emirates (UAE), has chosen to diversify, especially into real estate, as his way forward. Investors in Dubai property have done well in recent years, enjoying returns of roughly 80% since early last year.

Two factors have underpinned prices. The first is negative real (ie, below-inflation) interest rates, which track those in the United States. Borrowers can apply to banks and still borrow very cheaply. And since some think the official inflation rate seriously underestimates price increases in Dubai, there is a big incentive to borrow from banks and invest somewhere else.

The second factor is the continuing influx of workers into the emirate. Less than a fifth of Dubai’s 1.5m people are local. Many of the immigrants are building workers from South Asia who are provided with accommodation during their stay, but not in the smart apartment blocks that Dubai developers favour.
Bad timing

Then, over the summer, Morgan Stanley issued a note which said that Dubai property prices would fall by 10% by 2010. Quite simply, there may not be enough demand for the wave of new property coming onto the market. To a society used to easy returns, this was a shock. The report coincided with a withdrawal of deposits and investments from the UAE by speculative investors who had previously been betting that local currencies would shoot up as Gulf states let go of their dollar pegs to deal with double-digit inflation. But things did not work out like that. The dollar strengthened, so the bet failed and speculative flows went home. As a result, there was less cash sloshing around in the Gulf.

It was the wrong time, then, for a slew of corruption allegations. Since April, investigations have centred on Dubai Islamic Bank, an institution with a history of problems, and on various mortgage lenders and developers. Those investigated include a minister of state and two Britons. Sheikh Muhammad made a rare public announcement recently to say that the public prosecutor would not tolerate “illegal profits”. The investigations are thought to be continuing; no charges have been made.

At this week’s Cityscape real-estate conference, the emirate’s pushy public-relations people were busy pretending nothing was amiss. Nakheel, a state-backed developer, said it would build another tower block that would be the tallest building in the world, even higher than today’s tallest, the Burj Dubai. Another developer heralded a spectacular new development called Jumeirah Gardens, at an estimated cost of 350 billion dirhams ($95 billion).

The markets have been less impressed. So far this year, shares in the Dubai Financial Market have lost 48% of their value. Emaar, a high-profile developer, fell from a high of 15.7 dirhams to 5.5 on October 9th. In another sign that not all is well, the Dubai authorities merged two Islamic mortgage lenders, Amlak Finance and Tamweel; the latter is one of the firms involved in the investigation. Some of the more sober developers, Tamweel included, have stopped the widespread practice of “flipping”—paying only a percentage of the purchase price of a property and selling it on before instalment payments begin.

Dubai is not going to go bust. The state controls the larger property developers and can alter supply and demand by releasing land when and how it wants. Average percentage yields from rented properties are still in the high single digits, so demand persists. Business people are still likely to come to the Gulf. But expect more mergers along the lines of Amlak and Tamweel. Some smaller developers may go bust. The huge profits of the past will dip.

The ructions may also strain relations between Dubai and Abu Dhabi, which still has the biggest money bags because it has most of the oil—and may no longer be willing to sit back and let Sheikh Muhammad and his men make all the running. Sheikh Muhammad seems to get on well with Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed al-Nahyan, Abu Dhabi’s ruler. But financial arrangements between the two emirates are opaque. Sheikh Muhammad may need to be more deferential to his fellow ruler.


----------



## jamjaruk

*Not-so-hot property*

...


----------



## Wannaberich

zzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## pakboy

i have a question about off plan properties.
i know you pay in installments but is there any finance availble for it, i have about $100,000 and want to buy an apartment, most are over $200,000 even on off plan, i want it as an investment and will sell when its completed, so is their any other way of buying it other then paying installments as obviously i dont have the money to pay the installments.


----------



## Smokeey

docc said:


> Hmmmm, so i just got this tasty bit of information from my friend who just finished training to be a certified agent.
> 
> According to RERA, the boom will continue for a period of another 7 years. Population is set to double by 2015 and one of the main reasons for this is the agreement between our Govt and the Chinese Govt to have about 1 Million Chinese brought to the UAE to work in all sectors. The split is like this, 200,000 labourers, 400,000 middle income group and 400,000 for the rest. I don't know if that bloody genius or not, but its amazing to see the level of planning and forethought on the part of the Govt!
> 
> Anyone heard anything similar?





dlnash said:


> Oh so that explains why....hmm
> 
> "China Security & Surveillance Technology (CSST) will list on the Dubai International Financial Exchange (DIFX) on 13 October, in a move considered to be the first in wave of dual-listings in the region by firms from the Far East"


Thanks for this important info - most excellent news for investors (and potential investors - like me ). Hats off to Sheikh Mo!


----------



## jacobdxb

Dow jones went up 11 % today  It seems all the rescue packages are working...


----------



## malec

Hmm, I don't think this is good.
From bloomberg:
Dubai May Need Help From Abu Dhabi to Fund Borrowing

For some reason bloomberg is down now.
2nd link


----------



## docc

All those who think Dubai's day's of boom are gone...WRONG. It will continue and if you guys make smart investments, you just CANNOT go wrong. You will hear and read a lot of crap, but for heaven's sake, please just use your own head. These so called analyst's keep predicting Dubai's fall, but couldn't manage to predict their own downfall.....hno:.

I said this many times and will say it again, "Smart investments". For instance, a bad investment is one where you are paying around >3000/Sft for instance in The Waterfront with handover in 2012 and expect to make 30% capital gain in 6-12 months. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

There are still sooooooo many properties, where you can have gains of 30-40% in less than 6-9 months. So, please just invest smartly and don't go by all this crap you hear from negative nancy's who can't make a buck for themselves and don't want others to as well. I should know because a few of my friends are like that and the only way i shut them up is by making them some money :lol:


----------



## ianxgrant

pakboy said:


> i have a question about off plan properties.
> i know you pay in installments but is there any finance availble for it, i have about $100,000 and want to buy an apartment, most are over $200,000 even on off plan, i want it as an investment and will sell when its completed, so is their any other way of buying it other then paying installments as obviously i dont have the money to pay the installments.


Hi There, As long as you select a development that is approved by a bank, you just need to have enough for the deposit (10 - 30%). 

For example, Mashreqbank has a list of approved developments / developers on it's website - just take a look before you invest.

Let's say you put down 30% as a deposit and the payment plan is 5% per month for 12 months, with a final payment of 10%, all that happens is that you arrange with the bank, they release funds to the developer directly as per the payment plan, and you only pay interest on the funds that are released - easy. If you have balls of steel, you can then go and do the same again with another property!

I wish I had done it when I bought my first development as I have now splashed out 75% of the value of the property and it will not be finished for another year. As a foreigner, I cannot refinance this now, as only residents can refinance against off-plan developments, so my money is tied up. That's why I'd like to sell my 3 bed apartment in DSC, but unfortunately I have been unable to sell it, even for AED 1000 per sq. ft. I learned my lesson for future investments but my balls of steel feel a little bit tender at the moment.

That's another point I'd like to make; it doesn't make a great deal of difference what prices are being bandied about on the net for various properties and developments. Your property is only worth what someone else is prepared to pay for it - At the moment, my AED 2.5M (supposedly) apartment isn't even worth AED 1.8M...... Where does that fit into the stats?


----------



## Wannaberich

Is it ok to make a late payment by about 6 weeks on the final payment of a unit thats finished on time?I appreciate you wouldnt get the keys until completed.


----------



## ianxgrant

Wannaberich said:


> Is it ok to make a late payment by about 6 weeks on the final payment of a unit thats finished on time?I appreciate you wouldnt get the keys until completed.


I wouldn't want to chance it but you should be OK. Each developer is different and some of my contracts would ask for interest on the shortfall (for the duration of the shortfall).

It wouldn't be worth the hassle of making it a default case as you have already paid most of the price. Just my opinion.


----------



## bizzybonita

i love dubai said:


> I am so impressed by bizzy, I think he or she knows more than any of us in this forum. Sometimes his English is perfect and when it is not, I believe he or she does it on purpose just to play with our minds. Bizzy, who are you? I reallly want to know.:nuts:





Mavekris said:


> I support Bizzy as moderator
> 
> He spends a lot of time on the forum 24/7.POsting Good articles from various sources.
> 
> Bizzy you rock mate


much luv much respect :cheers:


----------



## Wannaberich

Wouldn't it take longer than 6 weeks to make it a default case?
Also,if you notified them before completion that you need to make a late payment would they be ok with it then?


----------



## bizzybonita

docc said:


> Ok, seriously guys. Stop picking on him. He's pretty helpful and posts a lot of news and pictures which he does take himself; that's something we all need to be very thankful for. Lets not get personal please.
> 
> *Keep up the good work Bizzy *


Sure things :cheers:


----------



## High Times

docc said:


> All those who think Dubai's day's of boom are gone...WRONG. It will continue and if you guys make smart investments, you just CANNOT go wrong. You will hear and read a lot of crap, but for heaven's sake, please just use your own head. These so called analyst's keep predicting Dubai's fall, but couldn't manage to predict their own downfall.....hno:.
> 
> I said this many times and will say it again, "Smart investments". For instance, a bad investment is one where you are paying around >3000/Sft for instance in The Waterfront with handover in 2012 and expect to make 30% capital gain in 6-12 months. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.


docc, i really admire your optomism and to some degree share your enthusiasm of Dubai, but you need to have a glass of realism now and again i think.


----------



## smussuw

He is becoming like Face81 hno:


----------



## docc

Lol, Docc Vs SSC! 

Nah, seriously guys, i do have faith in Dubai and its because i've profited a lot from it over time. I'm quite bullish about it and will continue to be mainly because i believe that whatever is happening is only temporary 

But thanks for the advice though :cheers:

Smussuw, i have no idea about the reference to Face81, so can't say anything there.


----------



## Naz UK

I suppose being the Royal doctor does help somewhat in shaping a healthy opinion about Dubai.


----------



## docc

Royal doctor? Bwahahahaha....Nice. 

Dude, i'm 26.


----------



## malec

smussuw said:


> He is becoming like Face81 hno:


:hahaha: good one


----------



## smussuw

^^ 



docc said:


> Royal doctor? Bwahahahaha....Nice.
> 
> Dude, i'm 26.


I think he is referring to u being my colleague. Me cleaning poo and u being royal horse veterinarian :runaway:


----------



## FWIW

smussuw said:


> ^^
> 
> I think he is referring to u being my colleague. Me cleaning poo and u being royal horse veterinarian :runaway:


Well I am glad we sorted that out!hno:


----------



## smussuw

^^ go buy some gold :bash:


----------



## docc

So is the Face81 reference because he's as pro-Dubai (in the face of adversity) as i am or is his degree of optimism just nauseating as mine? 

Smussuw, i wouldn't take that job for all the gold in the souq. Wait, on second thought...:lol:


----------



## dlnash

docc said:


> All those who think Dubai's day's of boom are gone...WRONG. It will continue and if you guys make smart investments, you just CANNOT go wrong. You will hear and read a lot of crap, but for heaven's sake, please just use your own head. These so called analyst's keep predicting Dubai's fall, but couldn't manage to predict their own downfall.....hno:.
> 
> I said this many times and will say it again, "Smart investments". For instance, a bad investment is one where you are paying around >3000/Sft for instance in The Waterfront with handover in 2012 and expect to make 30% capital gain in 6-12 months. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
> 
> There are still sooooooo many properties, where you can have gains of 30-40% in less than 6-9 months. So, please just invest smartly and don't go by all this crap you hear from negative nancy's who can't make a buck for themselves and don't want others to as well. I should know because a few of my friends are like that and the only way i shut them up is by making them some money :lol:


i totally agree with docc..I am about to get delivery of my apt in Dubai Marina and I have just put it on rent, The response I am getting is amazing!!! there is a HUGE shortage of ready properties in the market at the moment!


----------



## FWIW

smussuw said:


> ^^ go buy some gold :bash:


OK:runaway:


----------



## dubaifirst

can i have some advice please? I sold an apartment in Dubai about 2 months ago and deposited the fund in NBD, initially they gave me 1.8% interest, but i received a letter today and this has been increased to 3% i presume because banks in Dubai want investors to keep money in. is there any other better interest deals in AED currency? many thanks in advance.


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> Hmmmm, so i just got this tasty bit of information from my friend who just finished training to be a certified agent.
> 
> According to RERA, the boom will continue for a period of another 7 years. Population is set to double by 2015 and one of the main reasons for this is the agreement between our Govt and the Chinese Govt to have about 1 Million Chinese brought to the UAE to work in all sectors. The split is like this, 200,000 labourers, 400,000 middle income group and 400,000 for the rest. I don't know if that bloody genius or not, but its amazing to see the level of planning and forethought on the part of the Govt!
> 
> Anyone heard anything similar?


We need some more evidence of this?anyone got anything?


----------



## 234sale

I just met with the Manager of HSBC

They are going to bring down lending rates to 4.5 - 5%

But they are only going to lend 60% Appartments, 70% Villas

So 
Positive Loans are going to be cheaper.
Negative more equity required.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

234sale said:


> I just met with the Manager of HSBC
> 
> They are going to bring down lending rates to 4.5 - 5%
> 
> But they are only going to lend 60% Appartments, 70% Villas
> 
> So
> Positive Loans are going to be cheaper.
> Negative more equity required.


So does this mean current variable rate mortgages will enjoy decreases in rates too? Or is this only in instances of new mortgages with the higher down-payments? hno:


----------



## 234sale

Should be across the board if you rate is variable, They didn't want to bring down rates and fuel investment Boom on borrowed money.


----------



## dlnash

234sale said:


> I just met with the Manager of HSBC
> 
> They are going to bring down lending rates to 4.5 - 5%
> 
> But they are only going to lend 60% Appartments, 70% Villas
> 
> So
> Positive Loans are going to be cheaper.
> Negative more equity required.


and what about commercial properties..


----------



## Dubai_Steve

HSBC are the smallest risk takers of all banks so 60% LTV, they are just covering themselves in the current global climate in case the worst happens eg. 20% correction but offering good rates to attract safe business. HSBC usually have the lowest rates but toughest lending criteria it seems.


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> I just met with the Manager of HSBC
> 
> They are going to bring down lending rates to 4.5 - 5%
> 
> But they are only going to lend 60% Appartments, 70% Villas
> 
> So
> Positive Loans are going to be cheaper.
> *Negative more equity required.*


So they see values as overpriced?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ I doubt it, just playing safe as usual. 70% LTV was their previous max over the last 5 years. They decreased it by 10% due to global slowdown and recent reports. I doubt they did their own report.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

Just talked to Amlak... 65% for everything...


----------



## 234sale

I was told by senior person, Rate for US will go to 0.5 - 1 %

Rental Yields probably remain high IMO


----------



## Sady

Best of Luck Elb. Keep us updated on progress.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Cool can I get a 2 year discount tracker at base -1%. That would mean they would pay me 0.5% to borrow money :lol:


----------



## Philippa C

Wannaberich said:


> Is it ok to make a late payment by about 6 weeks on the final payment of a unit thats finished on time?I appreciate you wouldnt get the keys until completed.


It may depend on the developer. We were late with a final payment to Emaar (complicated story) and they give a grace period of 2 weeks and after that you have to pay interest on the outstanding amount -24% per annum! If you are late by 8 weeks with Emaar you can lose the property - they would offer to let you buy the property again but at the current market rate. Hope it all works out for you.


----------



## Philippa C

docc said:


> All those who think Dubai's day's of boom are gone...WRONG. It will continue and if you guys make smart investments, you just CANNOT go wrong. You will hear and read a lot of crap, but for heaven's sake, please just use your own head. These so called analyst's keep predicting Dubai's fall, but couldn't manage to predict their own downfall.....hno:.:



Since 2004, some "experts" have been predicting that the Dubai re market was going to crash. If they keep repeating this, they may at some stage in the future be correct but they will have missed out on a lot of opportunities and so will those to listen to them. I honestly think the Dubai gov has too much at stake to let the market crash. They have lots of subtle and not so subtle ways of controlling supply.


----------



## Naz UK

Word up, Philippa.


----------



## FWIW

Philippa C said:


> Since 2004, some "experts" have been predicting that the Dubai re market was going to crash. If they keep repeating this, they may at some stage in the future be correct but they will have missed out on a lot of opportunities and so will those to listen to them. I honestly think the Dubai gov has too much at stake to let the market crash. They have lots of subtle and not so subtle ways of controlling supply.


Yes, even a stopped clock is right twice a day...:lol:

These so-called experts can't even match that success ratio!


----------



## Wannaberich

Philippa C said:


> It may depend on the developer. We were late with a final payment to Emaar (complicated story) and they give a grace period of 2 weeks and after that you have to pay interest on the outstanding amount -24% per annum! If you are late by 8 weeks with Emaar you can lose the property - they would offer to let you buy the property again but at the current market rate. Hope it all works out for you.


Thanks.I'm ok, was asking so I know what my options are.


----------



## Wannaberich

Philippa C said:


> Since 2004, some "experts" have been predicting that the Dubai re market was going to crash. If they keep repeating this, they may at some stage in the future be correct but they will have missed out on a lot of opportunities and so will those to listen to them. I honestly think the Dubai gov has too much at stake to let the market crash. They have lots of subtle and not so subtle ways of controlling supply.


Is there any evidence so far that they are controlling supply?I dont think so.
I get the impression they aren't really doing much about it.
Hopefully with the calming down of the stock markets and the assistance by various goverments,the panic the media have created will pass and people will look at the property market again.
Saying that,reading this from Arabian Business,looks like people never stopped looking anyway.


'However preliminary transaction figures provide a less gloomy picture, with deals registered with the Dubai Land Department during Cityscape totaling nearly 2.5 billion dirhams ($681 million) in 2008, up from 2.05 billion dirhams last year and 657 million dirhams in 2006, EFG-Hermes said'


----------



## Naz UK

It all started back in 1953...no wait, here's the short version. Please stop creating "new" threads for random topics that have already been covered a million times in many other threads, it's lazy and it messes up the forum and takes away from many of the already established threads. Your said thread could have easily been a new post under its own title in, for example, the investment thread. 

So basically, stop creating new threads, unless its a topic related to skyscrapers that no one has ever, ever discussed on here before.


----------



## smussuw

^^ because this is a skyscraper forum not an investments and property forum. If you have anything about that it should be posted here, in this thread !


----------



## iced

Richard Head said:


> My existing mortgage with HSBC has not had the rate reduced in over a year throughout the recent sequence of cuts to US base rates. ADCB in the same period cut my mortgage rate by 1.25%.
> 
> So a 2% rate cut by HSBC to incorporate the most recent fed cut is both realistic and long overdue, profiteering bastards. :bash:


just checked my rate and they did reduce it by 1% to 7% a few months back. i have a 65% mortgage with HSBC so this does fit in what Sale234 has been saying. 

The banks do offer different rates and it appears ADCB are the cheapest.


----------



## Wannaberich

This section is full of threads which are the same as mine in that case.
Is 'Global Handwashing' more relevant?Can I start a thread on 'Global Bathing'?

Naz when you say 'stop creating new threads',implies I make a habit of it,I don't !


----------



## Wannaberich

Anyway I'll take your advice.Therefore:
Whats the future for off-plan? 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any opinions out there regards what does the future hold for off-plan sales?
At the moment you have this crazy situation where in many areas some off-plan prices are the same if not more than units under construction/completed.
How can that be?
I appreciate from a buyers point of view,there is alot less money to put down when at the beginning of an off-plan payment schedule.However,with the maturing Dubai mortgage market,lower interest rates,surely its better to get a mortgage and buy something that at least is well under construction?
For end users this means they can move into their units quicker rather than pay high rents.For investors this means less time to wait to have a completed rented unit.
Also,with the proposed capital gains tax to be introduced on off-plan sales,this will deter many flippers and surely make off-plan selling harder?

800 posts.Gee, I'm all emotional.


----------



## smussuw

Global Hand washing thread should go to sky Majlis. They are tough against investment and property threads for obvious reasons !


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

iced said:


> just checked my rate and they did reduce it by 1% to 7% a few months back. i have a 65% mortgage with HSBC so this does fit in what Sale234 has been saying.
> 
> The banks do offer different rates and it appears ADCB are the cheapest.


My rate with ADCB has always been 6.75%... I have not received any decreases... hno:

And since no one really answers the phone at AMLAC... I have no clue of what my current rate with them is...


----------



## docc

Met a person of Chinese origin at Nakheel's office today. He said: "No Money, Nakheel no money". Then he said, "Bank no give money, No Money". He couldn't stress the "No money" part enough.

hno:

I don't know why i attract such people.


----------



## kano

^^^ To get some investment tips from you Doc!!!


----------



## High Times

I met a person of Chinese origin last night too, he said "no spring roll, no spring roll, so i had to settle for peking duck instead.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

docc said:


> Met a person of Chinese origin at Nakheel's office today.


You werent at Nakheel to transfer a DG unit were you?


----------



## Wannaberich

Your'll all be meeting chinese people soon with 1 million bound for Dubai !


----------



## Wannaberich

Wait a minute,I've just woken up ! My thread for off-plan sales was closed yet there's an active thread on Global F....Handwashing !
Beam me up Scotty !


----------



## Naz UK

See. That's what happens. You set a precedent. I don't mean "you Wannerberich", i mean "you" rhetorically.


----------



## docc

Old Town Lovin... said:


> You werent at Nakheel to transfer a DG unit were you?


Nope. Why? Heavy demand for DG from Chinese?


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

docc said:


> Nope. Why? Heavy demand for DG from Chinese?


Haha... no... my friend was there transferring a unit today... World's not as small as I thought...


----------



## Philippa C

Wannaberich said:


> Is there any evidence so far that they are controlling supply?I dont think so.


They can slow down the handover of completed properties. They are also restricting Dewa connections to some developments so that work is held up and completion delayed.


----------



## Wannaberich

Philippa C said:


> They can slow down the handover of completed properties. They are also restricting Dewa connections to some developments so that work is held up and completion delayed.


Can;t see it.If se its very unfair on the developer and investor.Much better to stop new launches.


----------



## docc

Old Town Lovin... said:


> Haha... no... my friend was there transferring a unit today... World's not as small as I thought...


Ahhh.

Well, with one million Chinese soon to be residents of Dubai, i wouldn't be surprised if that were true.


----------



## Wannaberich

Oil now half the price it was in July.Is this bad for the Dubai property market?


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

The market is extremely quiet... Talked to a few agents today... asking prices are falling... lots of sellers... not too many buyers... not looking pretty... hno:


----------



## IISinbadII

Old Town Lovin... said:


> The market is extremely quiet... Talked to a few agents today... asking prices are falling... lots of sellers... not too many buyers... not looking pretty... hno:


^^ Off-plan, completed or both?


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Off-plan, completed or both?


Prices for completed units are down... Off-plan is in a dangerous zone now... There is too much downward pressure now... Good luck everyone... time to put on your raincoats and weather the storm...


----------



## AITU

I think that the only reason that the price for completed units would go down is for owners trying to get equity into their other investments, otherwise it makes no sense to sell at the moment when you get reasonable rental returns.

Additionally, this may mean that "new" rents will go up even more as those people who were on the verge of buying may not be able to finance now given the recent change in mortgage requirements (higher deposit). They will be forced to continue to rent and there is still a great shortage of completed property.

Landlords in the game for the long term should continue to do well for now.

Bye bye to the speculators. There could be some reasonable bargains coming up.


----------



## Ramin777

Old Town Lovin... said:


> Prices for completed units are down... Off-plan is in a dangerous zone now... There is too much downward pressure now... Good luck everyone... time to put on your raincoats and weather the storm...


That's NOT accurate!
I have received many calls over the past 14 days for my "handed-over" units in JLT (Lake Terrace). FYI, offered prices 2000 aed/psf, which is not that bad.


----------



## Morrismarina

Yes not looking too good, had an email from a mate of mine this morning who sells properties, mainly on the Palm and he confirms things are much quieter now. Seems thing have changed in the last couple of weeks.

This is only a problem of course if you are looking to sell. Some flippers might get their fingers burned here. But so long as you can hang on to your properties and have a medium/long term plan then you should be OK. The UAE Central bank has extra funding available specifically to help developers so hopefully not many will be affected. 

Might be good news for investors like me, looking to hold their properties long term. I have never had any intention to sell other than in 20+ years time. So long as your developer does not go under, then the nervousness in the market should increase demand from tenants. If you've bought in a quality location ie. Palm, Downtown, Marina, etc you should be fairly safe IMO.


----------



## glover

this financial crisis could actually end up being good for the real estate market in the UAE. once and for all, it will weed out speculators. short term, the market will slow or even correct, but as long as rents are high and the inflow of expats remains the same, the market is going to be fine imo.


----------



## Morrismarina

glover said:


> this financial crisis could actually end up being good for the real estate market in the UAE. once and for all, it will weed out speculators. short term, the market will slow or even correct, but as long as rents are hi and the inflow of expats remain the same, the market is going to be fine imo.


Agree with you 100% Glover.


----------



## thelostviking

yeah docc... do post the photos plz


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Ramin777 said:


> That's NOT accurate!
> I have received many calls over the past 14 days for my "handed-over" units in JLT (Lake Terrace). FYI, offered prices 2000 aed/psf, which is not that bad.


First of all - people are standing on each other to rent - just look at expat....com something and see the increase in people looking for apartment for rent -also because they will not buy. This means it is very unlikely that completed apartments will sink - perhaps the very expensive ones to some extent. I agree that off-plan apartments might see a stressed period - at least the ones which have a bad location - whereever this is. Also I think the rent is coming down in UAE.


----------



## thelostviking

*prices plz*



bizzybonita said:


> Al Furjan LLC , located within the proximity of Sheikh Zayed Road and Ibn Battuta Mall, in addition to the Railway station currently under development by RTA. The project is composed of low rise villas and residential and commercial buildings surrounded by ready projects and amenities such as the Discovery Gardens and The Gardens.
> 
> Al Furjan, Discovery Gardens, The Gardens community and Ibn Battuta Mall are all major projects developed by Nakheel LLC; one of the major developers in this region. Al Furjan among the adjacent developments will embrace all the services that a modern family wishes for; schools, shopping malls, medical centers and health clubs are all a walking distance away from your apartment.
> 
> Mira Palace is designed as a palace, where residents will enjoy an outstanding lavish entrance lobby; all apartments are well thought of with considered layouts separating the living area from the bedrooms. Every apartment has separate levels of privacy to add to the comfort of its residents.
> 
> This family-targeted residence also provides high class amenities and services; swimming pools, water features, fully equipped private sport club, landscaped sitting and barbeque areas.
> 
> Each apartment comes with its shaded indoor parking(s) with gated access. The finishing materials in Mira Palace are those of a modern palace, delivered by an eclectic architecture that combines exceptional aesthetic architecture and fine ratios of comfort.
> 
> The reason why you should live in Mira Palace is simple;




Any idea how much per sq. ft. it has reached by now? Until July I was aware of 1172/sq.ft for full 3rd floor and 1198/sq.ft for full 4th floor.


----------



## Morrismarina

If there is such a high demand why would rent be comming down ?? :dunno:


----------



## nisha

Old Town Lovin... said:


> Prices for completed units are down... Off-plan is in a dangerous zone now... There is too much downward pressure now... Good luck everyone... time to put on your raincoats and weather the storm...


Completely agree - things are really badhno:


----------



## docc

Off-plan is definitely very slow; however, completed property is still trading fairly well. There are distress sellers in the market selling hot property way below the market price so it kind of makes sense to invest in such properties. Ofcourse, make sure that the developer is good as it really all comes down to that. I've been getting some offers in DBD for less 2800/Sft which is a very good price for such an area.

Also, i really don't see rent coming down at all. I'd be very happy to proven wrong as Dubai needs to have a sustainable real estate market and over-inflated prices and rents are definitely not going to help.

Seriously though, there are some realllllly good deals out there thanks to all the panic selling, so if you've got some cash lying around, grab these. A small example of what i was offered:

Office unit in One Lake Plaza (completed) at 1377/Sft while market price is around 2000/Sft. I'm not really exaggerating when i say that there are some dirt cheap deals out there!


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ As long is supply is limited and demand remains high, I see no reason for rents to come down. 

I dont anticipate an increase in supply of completed units for another year or two. The only scenario in which rents could come down would be a dip in demand due to big layoffs.


----------



## Wannaberich

Prices I'v seen in Gulf News,websites for Better Homes,Landmark,Sherwoods,all look
as per normal.Couldnt see any 'bargains'.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The crash is here earlier than expected, prices have past the maximum peak and I expect prices to drop 15% across the board with bigger drops for overpriced high end units that were pushed up by speculation.


----------



## glover

i bet you there will be a wave of "distress" sales hitting the market in the next few months.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yes looks like there will be a rush to sell as UK investors try and regain some liquid capital in the current difficult economic climate.


----------



## arfie

What bargains are currently available in the Marina or JLT ? 

Will this slow down have an effect on the development of Dubailand projects ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I dont' think bargains will be evident on the listings pages yet as buyers are tying their luck to sell at a good price now. When they find they can not sell fast enough due to the economic slowdown price will fall for the overprice units. I think good value units will hold their prices and sell well, for example any Dubai Marina units less than 1600psf should sell as their is still demand for value for long term investors and end users.


----------



## arfie

What is the average price of an apt in marina and JLT which is complete and which is under construction to complete over next 18 months or so ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

According to alineah, Dubai Marina average is AED 1987 psf and JLT is AED 1642 psf


----------



## 234sale

I spoke to a major real estate agent today, 50% of commercial agents want to get into residential.

Remember Dubai per sqft is still on average cheaper than all established markets.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

arfie said:


> Is that for completed or apts of off plan ?


Think that is for both mixed.


----------



## arfie

Dubai_Steve said:


> According to alineah, Dubai Marina average is AED 1987 psf and JLT is AED 1642 psf


Is that for completed or apts of off plan ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

yes long term market is very good, prices will rocket in the 2nd property cycle in a few years time.


----------



## Garden city

Went to AMLAK today to check on getting a mortgage. They are not offering more that 65% mortgage anywhere in Dubai right now except for some project launched by landmark properties in business bay ( that too based on availability ). I don't know what to say, because buying a property just got more expensive especially for someone who is interested in buying a place to stay. With the rents on the high side many people would actually like to buy their own property and stay rather than paying rent but the current situation is not working out in their favour hno:hno:


----------



## mackie1964

arfie said:


> Is that for completed or apts of off plan ?


Arfie, you are worrying me. I thought you were an estate agent :dunno:
I remember you trying to sell me some units. :bash:


----------



## arfie

mackie1964 said:


> Arfie, you are worrying me. I thought you were an estate agent :dunno:
> I remember you trying to sell me some units. :bash:


Nope not an estate agent any more 

Not because of the market but due to other commitments


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Garden city said:


> Went to AMLAK today to check on getting a mortgage. They are not offering more that 65% mortgage anywhere in Dubai right now except for some project launched by landmark properties in business bay ( that too based on availability ). I don't know what to say, because buying a property just got more expensive especially for someone who is interested in buying a place to stay. With the rents on the high side many people would actually like to buy their own property and stay rather than paying rent but the current situation is not working out in their favour hno:hno:


It would be interesting to survey each bank and see what Loan to Value (LTV) % they are willing to lend in Dubai now and why. Could make an interesting article.


----------



## mackie1964

^^OK Mate, good luck:cheers:


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai_Steve said:


> It would be interesting to survey each bank and see what Loan to Value (LTV) % they are willing to lend in Dubai now and why. Could make an interesting article.


LTV has always been low in Dubai, which is good.

The real problem in my opinion is the lack of understanding of Mortgage products by both banks and young people. The Banks are extremely lousy at explaining or understanding the products themselves. :bash:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

But 70% was always possible for overseas investors. Now it seems this is comming down which I guess will stop all speculators and short term investors now entering the market as high gearing is not possible.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

Dubai_Steve said:


> It would be interesting to survey each bank and see what Loan to Value (LTV) % they are willing to lend in Dubai now and why. Could make an interesting article.


65% for AMLAK, 60% for HSBC... I spoke with ADCB... starting 01NOV08, they are going to be around the 65% area too... This is bad bad news... 

There was a hope that projects coming to completion will be sold to end users but as these higher requirements effectively puts many "would be" end users out of the market... 

At 10-15%, its more reasonable for an end-user... 35-40% is unheard of...


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai_Steve said:


> But 70% was always possible for overseas investors. Now it seems this is comming down which I guess will stop all speculators and short term investors now entering the market as high gearing is not possible.




Still the case with the main Banks and depending on your financial situation :cheers:

Not sure where is the 60% and 65% is coming from :dunno:



Old Town Lovin... said:


> 65% for AMLAK, 60% for HSBC... I spoke with ADCB... starting 01NOV08, they are going to be around the 65% area too... This is bad bad news...


I can understand about Amlak (I would not touch them) but the main banks..... If your financial affairs are in order, you can negotiate 

While I remember, don't take the first answer as the right answer from these guys. From experience, you will get at least 3 or 4 different answers to the same questions in the Dubai Banks. Even at the top, they were not aware of products advertised on the website.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Are those LTV figures for resident or overseas buyers? There used to be 10% less difference for overseas investors with HSBC for example.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

http://www.hsbc.ae/1/2/ALL_SITE_PAGES/loans/home-loans/list-home-finance

 does not look promising 50% only on some developments. HSBC will cause prices to drop more as first time buyers can not afford to enter the market now. 50% only on marina heights tower for example. Rents will get pushed up in price though.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

At least Select Properties are offering 70% LTV over 15 years at 7% ish :banana:


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai_Steve said:


> At least Select Properties are offering 70% LTV over 15 years at 7% ish :banana:


6.72% actualy :lol:


----------



## IISinbadII

If the government want to do something, they should ease up on the Residence Visa. This would attract wealthy buyers from neighboring countries in turmoil, like Pakistan, who could make Dubai their 'safety home'. 

Non-resident property owners and their families should be issued ID cards that could help them apply for driving licenses, open bank accounts with check books, use fast tracks at the airport and government offices, get visas at the airport, etc. Other investor friendly gestures like 'help centers' to guide them and take care of their needs at one stop may also help.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Why not give them the citizenship too .........


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> ^^ Why not give them the citizenship too .........


Yeh, thats a good idea. kay:


----------



## Mavekris

High Times said:


> So reading page 402 it looks like everyone is resigned to the fact that the market is dying.
> 
> Apart from doc obviously.
> 
> When i said back in July that this would happen i was told i was being negative and it was just the summer. :bash:
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=23345522&postcount=6523


^^Its just the begining of the down fall. It is going to get bad.

Docc is a star and very faithful expat.Dubai lucky to have him :nuts:


----------



## LaCasta

I don't want to be a blind optimist, so can we try to consolidate all the evidence for either the market at the moment either growing, remaining stable, or declining?

So far there is only annecdotal evidence that the market declining, although investor sentiment is very important.

Wannaberich posted this as evidence of the market growing:

'EFG-Hermes said anecdotal evidence showed sales and the number of deals made at last week's Cityscape real estate exhibition were down on previous years, given the more cautious approach from some investors and uncertainty in the markets. 

However preliminary transaction figures provide a less gloomy picture, with deals registered with the Dubai Land Department during Cityscape totaling nearly 2.5 billion dirhams ($681 million) in 2008, up from 2.05 billion dirhams last year and 657 million dirhams in 2006, EFG-Hermes said'

Some annecdotal evidence from myself:

My family has not had salary based jobs for almost 20 years. Exclusively doing investment real estate here in the U.S. The current financial conditions here and the slumping real estate market has made Dubai an excellent option for us and honestly almost the only option. Even if prices won't increase at 80% next year which they probbably won't, even 20% appreciation per year sounds good. Now this sentiment may be shared by other investors, or it may not.


----------



## mrobbie

I don't see 70-80% per year increase happening in Dubai for a number of years now. I think you are right with the increases still happening, but at lower rates - around 15%, which is better than many places round the world.


----------



## docc

It's about time the optimist in me chimed in amidst all this negativity 

Things are slow, but they will pick up in a few months and the cycle will resume. From my perspective, Dubai is largely dependent on real estate today, not only in terms of revenues but also in terms of making it a destination for lucrative investments to foreigners. If the latter wasn't true, all the glitz and glamor of Dubai would simply fizzle out creating economic chaos which is something the Govt. cannot afford.

Heck, panic sellers are worried about the half a million that they have invested and somehow conveniently seem to forget the hundreds of billions of dollars the Govt. has invested in making Dubai what it is today. If Dubai didn't have the status of Middle-East's financial capital, i would have been worried but that's not true and hence you see a happy me. Where you see glass half empty, i see it half full 

Sure, you might not make money at the same pace as you did in the last few years, but it's almost guaranteed that you'd get better returns on your investment here in Dubai as opposed to other countries (on an average). That still makes Dubai attractive in the eye of investors and that's something that will not change until economies worldwide get better.

As Mavekris has so aptly put it; yes i am very optimistic and faithful to Dubai, simply because i have more faith in it than any other City right now. Lets discuss this more in a few months when i say, "I told you so" :lol:


----------



## Mavekris

^^Docc

i am talking about the present situation not what the markets will be after 1 or 2 yrs.


----------



## docc

Well, shouldn't we consider where our investments will be in 1-2 years? This is real estate; things shouldn't be short-term gains ONLY to begin with. However, just because rewards have stopped pouring in senselessly (which hasn't completely stopped btw ) the way they used to doesn't make Dubai a bad real estate market.

Dubai is a very lucrative real estate market that can definitely offer great medium to long term gains along with fairly decent short term gains. I for one am glad that every Tom Dick and Harry who only had 10% in their account is being weeded out because these are guys who couldn't afford second payments and caused the over-inflated market that we see today.

Present situation looks dull, but for how long? The Govt's are way more concerned and are probably brain-storming trying to deduce ways to kickstart the market. NHT wasn't supposed to be announced till next year, but they did it anyways simply to let people know that they are here to STAY.

I would judge the market based on a variety of factors and not just what it looks like today. As far as i am concerned, the market is way more healthier than most places in the world which in itself makes it the perfect place to invest.


----------



## diveksa

*24/7: Dubai property prices 'will never decline'*

Salem Almoosa, Chairman and CEO of Falconcity of Wonders accused prospective buyers who said prices were about to fall of doing so in the hope that such speculation would drive the market down and they would be able to buy more cheaply.
Read full article at:http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/10/Pages/10202008_838762e6d5534f9b9dd687b24f0f35fa.aspx


----------



## bjassin

smussuw said:


> ^^ Why not give them the citizenship too .........


In all seriousness, please explain to me what would be wrong with that. Let's say that someone someone from Pakistan has been living in Dubai for a long time. Furthermore, they have children that were born and educated there. To those children, Dubai is the only home they have known. 

Now, suppose, those people also learn the Arabic language, and the culture, and the history of the country. Please explain to me what would be wrong with giving them citizenship if they wanted it. You can see from my profile that I live in America. 

If you, smussuw, were to come to America and stay here for 5 years, you could apply for citizenship. You take a test to prove you know the language and history of the country. In addition, you could also keep your UAE citizenship. 

Please tell me what is wrong with that...I REALLY don't understand it.

BJ


----------



## glover

this guy must be delusional imo. read what the head of Dubai Islamic Bank (DIB) said yesterday: 

"The days of cheap money are gone, be prepared to pay more," Khaled Al Kamda said at a real estate conference. DIB is one of the Gulf's biggest lenders and a key player in the massive developments in the UAE.

"Real estate will suffer, big real estate projects will be revisited ... put on the back burner," Reuters reported Al Kamda as saying. "The viability of these real estate projects will need to be revisited." gulfnews



diveksa said:


> Salem Almoosa, Chairman and CEO of Falconcity of Wonders accused prospective buyers who said prices were about to fall of doing so in the hope that such speculation would drive the market down and they would be able to buy more cheaply.
> Read full article at:http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/10/Pages/10202008_838762e6d5534f9b9dd687b24f0f35fa.aspx


----------



## diveksa

*24/7: UAE PROPERTY MARKET 'IS SAFE'*

Annual real estate returns across the GCC range between eight and 14 per cent in a market that has seen little or no fall-out from the global financial crisis, the Chief Executive of Al Mazaya Holding said.

"Dubai property market will always be an attractive destination for investments," Khalid Esbaitah said in a statement. "There are three factors that form the major constituents that any successful investment relies on – population growth, individual income, and the solidity of the country's economy. UAE has all these three factors.

"The country has successfully been able to use population rise in such an efficient way that it has increased employment, production and has attracted experience. UAE was second in terms of individual income, as reported by the National Bank of Kuwait. 

"Most importantly, UAE was able to diversify its income sources by not relying on one sector alone, such as oil sector, but by having an investment rising in all profitable sectors, including air travel, tourism, media, and others. This means that the UAE was able to protect its economy," Esbaitah said.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

docc said:


> Dubai is a very lucrative real estate market that can definitely offer great medium to long term gains along with fairly decent short term gains. I for one am glad that every Tom Dick and Harry who only had 10% in their account is being weeded out because these are guys who couldn't afford second payments and caused the over-inflated market that we see today.


That is kind of harsh... Think about the people first arriving in Dubai... Or even the ones that have been here for a year... Obviously, we are removing the laborers from this discussion... Whether it be International City, Discovery Gardens, the Marina or Burj Downtown, most likely, they have jobs that will allow them to make monthly mortgage payments but how many of them have 35-40% to put down on a unit... at 10% down, they will be able to purchase a place as their home, be end users and not pay rent... As we know, rent sometimes can equal or exceed mortgage payments in some areas... 

Ultimately, the speculators / flippers are going to get waxed in this market... But its the "end-users" who will have to buy the properties... But at 35-40% down, that looks almost impossible at whatever income levels they come in at... If there are no residence visas being offered, who else will then be the end users here?

Dont get me wrong, i appreciate your enthusiasm for the market... :cheers: 
Sorry for the doom and gloom... but reality is reality... More sellers... less buyers... Panic selling + less lending... I will be happy with a 10-15% decrease over 2009...


----------



## IISinbadII

Here is how I see it:

Global financial crunch----> Less liquidity in Dubai ----> Banks tightening mortgages + Layoffs in the financial sector ------> Less affordability of public to invest in property -----> less demand for property + increased supply by 2010 ?-----> Layoffs in real estate sector ------> some expats moving out of Dubai -----> less demand for property -----> Correction in property prices -----> Off-plan project cancellations ------> decreased supply + low prices ------> Consolidation ------> Dubai becoming attractive again -------> Investors move back in ------> Increase in demand -------> prices moving up again.
Correction over.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

^^ in 2014??? ^^


----------



## Mavekris

Old Town Lovin... said:


> That is kind of harsh... Think about the people first arriving in Dubai... Or even the ones that have been here for a year... Obviously, we are removing the laborers from this discussion... Whether it be International City, Discovery Gardens, the Marina or Burj Downtown, most likely, they have jobs that will allow them to make monthly mortgage payments but how many of them have 35-40% to put down on a unit... at 10% down, they will be able to purchase a place as their home, be end users and not pay rent... As we know, rent sometimes can equal or exceed mortgage payments in some areas...
> 
> Ultimately, the speculators / flippers are going to get waxed in this market... But its the "end-users" who will have to buy the properties... But at 35-40% down, that looks almost impossible at whatever income levels they come in at... If there are no residence visas being offered, who else will then be the end users here?
> 
> Dont get me wrong, i appreciate your enthusiasm for the market... :cheers:
> Sorry for the doom and gloom... but reality is reality... More sellers... less buyers... Panic selling + less lending... I will be happy with a 10-15% decrease over 2009...



^^Docc what do you mean by tom,dick and harry.
you yourself flipped an property last week .

Double standard talks very intresting:lol:

Flippers should be weeded out not the tom dick and harry who can afford 10% and live in their own house.

Nothing personnel but be clear and meaningful when you post :lol:


----------



## Garden city

Old Town Lovin... said:


> ^^ in 2014??? ^^


Today while i was listening to Business Breakfast on DubaiEye there was a news mentioned about Dubai Islamic Bank MD ( or CEO not sure, but someone by name Khalid i guess ) said that days of easy money are over and it will be very difficult to secure finance in the time to come. He had also said that some of the projects will have to be re-thought in terms of financing and expenditure.

This was told by the host Brandy. Now why would some bank like Dubai Islamic Bank make a statement like this eventhough they are heavily invested in real estate. If you guys have not noticed yet but recently they had to confiscate land from one developer who had taken huge loan from them for a project ( something like racesourse city, not sure ) in Dubailand and defaulted on the loan. DIB has taken the land but still not sure whether to sell it off or develop it. Hmm, sounds something like how subprime crisis started in US where banks were left with hugh amount of property or land which they could not dispose.

Some people need to understand that being very optimist does not help. Maybe some are being optimist because they are actually praying for markets not to fall. Don't forget that all markets work on emotion and not on logic. A tiny issue could spur a huge sell-off and you wouldn't even realise it coming.

I was reading the business section of Gulf News this friday and if you guys also have a copy then please go ahead and read it. You can see that it is clearly mentioned that property prices in cities like Shanghai has come down by 40% although in terms of trade the city is still booming. If you guys say there is demand in Dubai then there is a over-over-over demand in Shanghai as you know it is a cramped city. There is also an article about Kuala Lampur market which is a more mature compared to Dubai ( this is mentioned in the article itself ) and prices are way below Dubai levels. For those who know about the asian crisis know how high the prices were in Kuala Lampur before that.

Dubai unfortunately right now is nothing more than a major construction site. Yeah some might argue that many projects have completed but what difference does it make when you have construction happen right behind your backyard eventhough your project is delivered. It will take some time for this city to settle down and think about competing with cities which have been built over centuries or decades, Dubai govt and property developers got too ambitious and thought they can do this in a decade and did not give much thought that city is not just about raising skyscrapers, we all know what troubles we go through daily just because of the constructions which are happening everywhere, rules which keep changing every now and then, very high inflation, etc.

There are people who are really looking for a place to buy because of the high rents but unfortunately the prices have shot up so much and now that mortgage is also difficult to secure it will make their lives more difficult.


----------



## docc

OTL,

Just to be clear, i'm not talking about the end users here. I'm talking about the 10% flippers i.e who get money from different sources just to pony up the 10% WITHOUT INTENT or capability to pay the rest. I'm not talking about end users who pay 10% and take a mortgage to pay the rest; this is something i encourage because prices remain stable and sustainable.


----------



## Mavekris

12


----------



## docc

Mavekris said:


> ^^Docc what do you mean by tom,dick and harry.
> you yourself flipped an property last week .
> 
> Double standard talks very intresting:lol:
> 
> Flippers should be weeded out not the tom dick and harry who can afford 10% and live in their own house.
> 
> Nothing personnel but be clear and meaningful when you post :lol:


Mavekris,

The difference is that i have the funds to pay the rest if required. I don't get into an investment knowing that i won't be able to pay the rest because that would be just foolish. Yes, i flipped a property and made a handsome profit from it, but if needed i could pay for the rest. I always plan ahead.

As i mentioned in the previous post, i'm talking about 10% Tom's who borrow money from 10 different sources, only to pay the deposit and flip in a matter of weeks causing an unnecessary increase in prices. They DON'T intend to live in the property ever whereas when i purchase i look at the possibility of leasing it out on completion if required. All my investments are like that, so really no double standards here.

Look at Badrah. A single property probably changed hands like 5 times causing a 25-30% increase in prices for no reason whatsoever and this is obviously due to the flippers. These are the people that i am talking about weeding out, the people who have no way of backing up their investments if required.


----------



## Mavekris

^^The guess the project you were talking about is Equesterian ..


----------



## jixline

^^yup

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=151082


----------



## smussuw

bjassin said:


> In all seriousness, please explain to me what would be wrong with that. Let's say that someone someone from Pakistan has been living in Dubai for a long time. Furthermore, they have children that were born and educated there. To those children, Dubai is the only home they have known.
> 
> Now, suppose, those people also learn the Arabic language, and the culture, and the history of the country. Please explain to me what would be wrong with giving them citizenship if they wanted it. You can see from my profile that I live in America.
> 
> If you, smussuw, were to come to America and stay here for 5 years, you could apply for citizenship. You take a test to prove you know the language and history of the country. In addition, you could also keep your UAE citizenship.
> 
> Please tell me what is wrong with that...I REALLY don't understand it.
> 
> BJ


This discussion has became boring as it has already been discussed gazillion of times.

1) America is not the UAE and America doesn't have 80% expatriates. America is a multi-cultural society, the UAE is not. Emiratis are a homogeneous group when it comes to their thoughts and beliefs, Americans are not !

2) The UAE already naturalized many people, as much as 40-50% of the Emiratis are naturalized (including many pakistanis) and not originally from the country so asking for more is absurd.

3) I don't mind giving citizenship to whom deserve it, with a limited numbers, and that is they have to be a) Muslims, b) speak Arabic, c) dress like we do, d) talk the way we do. Basically they should totally assimilate in the Emirati Arabic Islamic culture.


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> 3) I don't mind giving citizenship to whom deserve it, with a limited numbers, and that is they have to be a) Muslims, b) speak Arabic, c) dress like we do, d) talk the way we do. Basically they should totally assimilate in the Emirati Arabic Islamic culture.


Muslims do not neccessarily 'totally assimilate'themselves when they move to non-muslim countries such as the UK,so I dont see why others should when they move to Dubai.
If a non-emirati has lived in Dubai for some time,makes a positive contribution,is a good citizen,intends to stay there a lifetime,then i dont see why he/she shouldnt be able to become a citizen.


----------



## smussuw

Wannaberich said:


> Muslims do not neccessarily 'totally assimilate'themselves when they move to non-muslim countries such as the UK,so I dont see why others should when they move to Dubai.
> If a non-emirati has lived in Dubai for some time,makes a positive contribution,is a good citizen,intends to stay there a lifetime,then i dont see why he/she shouldnt be able to become a citizen.


I don't care about what happens in the UK, deal with ur problems yourselves !

A non-Muslim should never become an Emirati citizen because he has different views about how the UAE, an Islamic country, should be heading. We already have many problems and the last thing we want here are Emiratis opposing our views on mainstream subjects in our country.


----------



## IISinbadII

...


----------



## High Times

smussuw said:


> I don't care about what happens in the UK, deal with ur problems yourselves !


I agree.

The main problems we have in the UK, both fiscal and cultural have been as a direct result of an open door policy to immigration.

The UAE have more sense to allow anyone in and should be very selective in who they give residency and/or citizenship to.


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> I don't care about what happens in the UK, deal with ur problems yourselves !
> 
> A non-Muslim should never become an Emirati citizen because he has different views about how the UAE, an Islamic country, should be heading. We already have many problems and the last thing we want here are Emiratis opposing our views on mainstream subjects in our country.


If you were british you'd be called a racist.


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> I agree.
> 
> The UAE have more sense to allow anyone in and should be very selective in who they give residency and/or citizenship to.



Yet happy to take our money.


----------



## smussuw

^^ yet, u also make even more money !



Wannaberich said:


> If you were british you'd be called a racist.


That is why am not British :banana:

Consider Islam as nationality so a non-Muslim is an expatriate. It is actually easier than the normal expatriate-citizen system since you can become a Muslim immediately while it takes 3-10 years to become a citizen in the other system. Islam system distinct between beliefs while urs distinct between a piece of paper. So if this system is racist then citizen-expatriates system is more racist.


----------



## smshah

smussuw said:


> ^^ yet, u also make even more money !
> 
> That is why am not British :banana:
> 
> Consider Islam as nationality so a non-Muslim is an expatriate. It is actually easier than the normal expatriate-citizen system since you can become a Muslim immediately while it takes 3-10 years to become a citizen in the other system. Islam system distinct between beliefs while urs distinct between a piece of paper. So if this system is racist then citizen-expatriates system is more racist.



IM also a muslim and also born in the UK. listen to me very carefully, if it wasnt for us westerners, Dubai will not be in the position they are in now. all the buildings that are being built in the UAE (90%) plus are being built by western money. they msybe arab developers but their are westerners who are buying those property.

without the westerners and the expat, dubai would be a dump.

I hate emiratis who are big headed and dont know f**k all!


----------



## mackie1964

You make more sense than most of your highly paid ministers, this forum has a great influence on character building.

SMUSSUW is ready to be a good politician 

Sheikh SMUSSUW :master: :master:


----------



## kano

^^^ a response from smussuw will be posted in a minute!!!.


----------



## abf

Wannaberich said:


> Muslims do not neccessarily 'totally assimilate'themselves when they move to non-muslim countries such as the UK,so I dont see why others should when they move to Dubai.
> If a non-emirati has lived in Dubai for some time,makes a positive contribution,is a good citizen,intends to stay there a lifetime,then i dont see why he/she shouldnt be able to become a citizen.


Well said Waanaberich


----------



## smussuw

I didn't expect expatriates to agree with what I say anyway, so its cool :laugh:







smshah said:


> IM also a muslim and also born in the UK. listen to me very carefully, if it wasnt for us westerners, Dubai will not be in the position they are in now. all the buildings that are being built in the UAE (90%) plus are being built by western money. they msybe arab developers but their are westerners who are buying those property.
> 
> without the westerners and the expat, dubai would be a dump.
> 
> I hate emiratis who are big headed and dont know f**k all!


ok


----------



## Wannaberich

smshah said:


> IM also a muslim and also born in the UK. listen to me very carefully, if it wasnt for us westerners, Dubai will not be in the position they are in now. all the buildings that are being built in the UAE (90%) plus are being built by western money. they msybe arab developers but their are westerners who are buying those property.
> 
> without the westerners and the expat, dubai would be a dump.
> 
> I hate emiratis who are big headed and dont know f**k all!


An absolute classic !!:lol:


----------



## glover

not to diminish the importance of expats/westerns in the current boom in the UAE, but i am afraid you got your facts wrong here!! about 70% of freehold properties in dubai are bought by gulf arabs, indians, pakistanis, iranians and so forth. 10% or so goes to russians, only about 20% goes to europeans, and the bulk of those sales are to british nationals. and a big chunk of the european buyers have some sort of connection to the middle east/southeast asia (family etc.)



smshah said:


> IM also a muslim and also born in the UK. listen to me very carefully, if it wasnt for us westerners, Dubai will not be in the position they are in now. all the buildings that are being built in the UAE (90%) plus are being built by western money. they msybe arab developers but their are westerners who are buying those property.
> 
> without the westerners and the expat, dubai would be a dump.
> 
> I hate emiratis who are big headed and dont know f**k all!


----------



## laidback74

There's an interesting article on AmeInfo that gives a positive spin on things:

http://www.ameinfo.com/171697.html

The main points are:

1. Though the market is undeniably slowing, witnessed by the falling trend amongst speculators looking to flip off plan properties, there has been no sign of a halt in buying by end users. 

2. After 9/11 - which at the time looked an absolute disaster for inward investment into the Middle East - Arab investors brought an estimated $1 trillion back to the region from America where it was under threat of seizure. It was this money that first powered up the Dubai property boom. 

Similarly the invasion of Iraq in 2003 hardly appeared good for regional confidence at the time. But Dubai gained in the aftermath as a safe haven in a troubled region and from the war's impact on oil prices that fuelled its trading and service economy.


3. we should remember that the US, UK and Europe are debtor nations in a banking crisis. The UAE, and GCC for that matter, is a creditor. Indeed, some 40% of global foreign currency reserves are held by the Middle East


Also, in speaking with an agent in the banking industry, I found that the shift of LTVs from 90% to 70% or lower is a directive issued by the Central Bank itself to all national banks as part of the country's move to flush out speculators by raising deposits. It's not due to any actual crisis of funding that is taking place in the market, but purely a policy directive from the govt. 

Such anti-speculative moves by the govt. are badly timed in my opinion, since in combination with a reduction in FDI they will contribute to prices going much further down than they otherwise would've in the short term. 

Long term view, however, remains strongly in favor of price growth.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Not Fair 

Smussuw vs the rest.

Guys you should visit saudi once.You will never complain about dubai.

We have church and temple in dubai should be very grateful for this.

Dubai locals are very kind when compared to rest in middleeast.


----------



## smussuw

mackie1964 said:


> Deep down, you really wish you were :lol: :banana:


Sure, I'll be getting 60k when I only deserve 10 :cheer: :tyty: :cheer:


----------



## mackie1964

smussuw said:


> Sure, I'll be getting 60k when I only deserve 10 :cheer: :tyty: :cheer:


Got YA;

You are only jealous :lol::banana:


----------



## smussuw

mackie1964 said:


> And here is me saying that you would make a good politician :lol: Shouldn't you be selective about what you agree with. :banana:


Sure, I am a chameleon, I change my view whenever it suit me !


----------



## agod

dubayyy said:


> Haven't posted on this thread for a long while - but in the meantime have continued to grow my portfolio in the UAE.
> 
> I can concur that whilst there is still activity in certain areas i.e completed International City, Marina and Palm units - much of the rest of the market is fairly dead. Even low cost off-plan launches in Ajman are not being taken up by investors.
> 
> In agreement with many others I think the ONE thing that would make the most difference in helping the residential market is the the guarantee of residency visa with property purchase.
> 
> I did hear through a high connection that this is very much back on the cards and could be announced as early as next week.
> 
> Lets wait and see....


I hope you are right, I have spoken to Trident, and they say that I should speak to Emmar, and are just as mystified as anyone way it changed, I hav also been trying to get in touch with the UAE Embassy here in London, but no luck, I will go up there at some point, I will also send an email to His Highness Sheikh Mohammed, because it seemed to work when Naz, and HT, and Dubai Steve, had a moan about there view out of the Torch Towers.

ALan


----------



## foxy

Tom_Green said:


> Like Japan? The most advanced country in the world?
> 
> I am on smussuw sides. It would be a disaster if Dubai would change to a second Mallorca. If a Bristish couple has sex outside, kick them out. If they had the citizen of the UAE they couldn`t do that.
> 
> If they couldn`t be kicked out it would cause tension between born Emiratis and new Emiratis. The way it is now is better and it should stay that way.


Doesn't Japan have a really high suicide rate? and aren't they really xenophobic?

ps Smussuw I would rather be friends than an enemy :lovethem:


----------



## AITU

There is some good info on here:

www.dubailand.gov.ae/ld_website/English/eServices/Daily_Transactions.aspx

Some of these are original buyers who are finally registering their properties (JBR prices for example), however it also gives an idea of what transactions are still going through.


----------



## Richard Head

Tom_Green said:


> Like Japan? The most advanced country in the world?
> 
> I am on smussuw sides. It would be a disaster if Dubai would change to a second Mallorca. If a Bristish couple has sex outside, kick them out. If they had the citizen of the UAE they couldn`t do that.
> 
> If they couldn`t be kicked out it would cause tension between born Emiratis and new Emiratis. The way it is now is better and it should stay that way.


Hey Tom,

Almost every post I have seen from you on the forum have been intelligent and insightful.

What happened man, cracked a few cold ones tonight, or someone hacked into your account? 

Stick to the stuff you're good at, wouldn't want your credibility on here to take a hit.

Cheers :cheers:


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

Aside from all the citizenship issues... here is a good read... summarizes alot of our situation here...

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1851370,00.html


----------



## houshang

Wheather what happened in Singapore is going to be repeated in Dubai is going to remain a guessing game. Singapore property market was being finaced by bank loans and credits and when these banks stopped injecting more money into so called tiger economies the markets went down. But as far as I know instead of loans or credits, it has in fact been the excessive liquidity in the region which has been behind most of the recent price rises in Dubai, otherwise the rise in prices where quite moderate. This excessive liqudity for some reasons including recent fall in oil price might be less present in the system and this in addition to some anti-speculative measures and Visa ristrictions will adversly affect the market. Some speculators who see this as SELL sign are off loading their stocks in a hurry. AT THE END OF THE DAY ECONOMY IS ABOUT SENTIMENTS.


----------



## smussuw

Tom_Green, don't listen to those hypocrites. Those people who talk this way are the same people who would whine and complain when their fellow British Muslims show different concerns or express different views than theirs.


----------



## Richard Head

bjassin said:


> Believe me, we have plenty of Democracy in America--but more corruption than you can ever imagine. In fact, there is more corruption in a Democracy than in a well-run and honest 'sheikdom'. BJ


Had to have a ROFLMAO at this one:lol:. Sure thing, American doood. You guys are really up there at the top of the leagues for irony and TV comedy too, right?


----------



## Tom_Green

smussuw said:


> Tom_Green, don't listen to those hypocrites. Those people who talk this way are the same people who would whine and complain when their fellow British Muslims show different concerns or express different views than theirs.


I am just realistic. 
They would complain if they had to learn Arabic in the UK but Emiratis bear with learning Englisch. I was a little bit shocked during our meeting that you had to speak Englisch with staff working at the WTC Tower.

Muslims are more tolerant than many believe. For the Jews in IRAN they made a special law so they can drink wine during religious procedure. 

If anyone knows why muslims can have more than one women and why non muslims are not allowed in Mecca will get my idea. You must know what you are talking about. You must learn from other cultures. 

I think many want to change their new country the way they want but i like Dubai the way it is. Its safe. I don`t need to be afraid of drunk violent people walking around. The people are friendly, i don`t want to be treated in Dubai like i was in Paris. I also don`t want see retarded foreign Hip hop fans making fun of old people in Dubai. What`s so difficult to love the current Dubai?


----------



## BenjiDXB

^^
It can be very difficult to love the current Dubai, if you have to drive here...:nuts::bash::nuts::bash::nuts::bash:


----------



## jagmp

smussuw said:


> Yes we can but the problem arise with those citizens not seeing anything wrong with what they did in the first place and that is because they have a different fundamental base than ours. They will question the legitimacy of our laws to their understanding, laws against homosexuals, decency, adultery, alcohol, etc.
> 
> They UAE will have to accommodate their needs as citizens of the country unless u want them to see themselves as 2nd class citizens ...........


if u r so concern request yr lawmakers to close all the doors for foreighners.just live with yr own peple the way u did centuries ago.but obviously administrators in UAE know better than u. do.thats why for centuries they have accepted foreigners. otherwise Dubai will still be a small fishing village shut from the outside world.thanks to the western knowledge, master engineering, architect ,computer science and education u r where u r today.without english language u will not stand anywhere.thas why u r also writing in english.u will not have any job in yr own country without english.while not knowing arabic will not make any difference anywhere to anyone.


----------



## jagmp

smussuw said:


> Tom_Green, don't listen to those hypocrites. Those people who talk this way are the same people who would whine and complain when their fellow British Muslims show different concerns or express different views than theirs.


stop blabbering and being racist in this forum.i am british indian but i am proud to be both.it is the religious tolarance of british that muslims have freedom of speech in this country which they don't have in their own country.they are enjoying financial prosperity peace and civil rights which otherwise not possible in their own country.even terrorists get away under human right protection and live off state money.hindus and muslims have more religious rights and protection than in their own country.westerners have high morals and value for human life.that is why most financial help comes from them in times of natural calamities.western society is more open and transperent.not like some of the estern society where behind the close doors much of the exploitation and abuse take place in the name of religion and culture.

don't ambarrase yr country and people by making thoughtless remarks


----------



## jagmp

i think we must stop this dicussion here and get on with our usual business.it is pointless to teach dignity and respect.it is inborn.so none of us will reply to any further aggravation.

i have a apt in marina rented out.fully paid.bought at 740/sqf.

another one in JLT.going to be handad over in Dec or Jan.bought at 780/sqf.again fully paid.

will prices go down drastically?should i sell them off or hold on to them.

what would be the rent for 2 bdr 970sqf in Icon tower?

any guidance ?

thanks.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Send a PM TO CHEFDUDE he can help you with renting it out.


----------



## Adel

Mavekris said:


> ^^Not Fair
> 
> Smussuw vs the rest.
> 
> Guys you should visit saudi once.You will never complain about dubai.
> 
> We have church and temple in dubai should be very grateful for this.
> 
> Dubai locals are very kind when compared to rest in middleeast.


Compared to the rest of the Middle East with exemption of Bahrain. Bahrain has more churches and temples than the whole of the Gulf. Couldint resist :lol:


----------



## smussuw

^^ How is that something to be proud of? How many Churches does Bahrain have anyway because I don't think that ur statement is accurate?


----------



## Wannaberich

Arabian Business reports IMF say Gulf growth expected to slow but is still strong.


----------



## Adel

Actually I'm very proud of that. The first church and school (The American mission school) was established in Bahrain around 1919. We have churches for most Christian denominations and the Egyptian Coptic Church will be the latest to be given the right to open one. We had a Jewish Synagog in Bahrain since the early 1940's which unfortunately was closed because of the migration of most the Jews to England, USA, and Palestine in the late forties, we still have about 5 Jewish families in Bahrain. We have a fairly large Baha'i community and everybody has their own grave yards including Hindus.

Bahrain has a Jewish ambassador in the UN (Mrs Nunu), and Jewish and christian members in the Shura Council(Mrs Saman, Mrs Nunu, Mr Nunu). There used to be an Ismaili Indian origin member (Mr Dadabai) in the Shura Council too.


----------



## smussuw

^^ That doesn't tell me how many Churches are there in Bahrain !


----------



## Wannaberich

Can you two cut it out with the religion talk.


----------



## Adel

smussuw said:


> ^^ That doesn't tell me how many Churches are there in Bahrain !


First tell me how many are there in the Gulf so that I can give you a bigger number for Bahrain. :lol:

Okay maybe a bit of an exaggeration on my part, will give you this one.


----------



## rbj

I know the property market is quiet at the moment and not much is happening, but I have no interest in reading about churches, religion,this democracy, that community etc etc. Mods can we ban people who continually talk irrelavant rubbish please. I check the forum every day to see what is going on with 'property and investment'. thanks


----------



## rexdmx

jagmp said:


> stop blabbering and being racist in this forum.i am british indian but i am proud to be both.it is the religious tolarance of british that muslims have freedom of speech in this country which they don't have in their own country.they are enjoying financial prosperity peace and civil rights which otherwise not possible in their own country.even terrorists get away under human right protection and live off state money.hindus and muslims have more religious rights and protection than in their own country.westerners have high morals and value for human life.that is why most financial help comes from them in times of natural calamities.western society is more open and transperent.not like some of the estern society where behind the close doors much of the exploitation and abuse take place in the name of religion and culture.
> 
> don't ambarrase yr country and people by making thoughtless remarks


i thought scientific knowledge was first established in this part of the world...?


----------



## rexdmx

Adel said:


> First tell me how many are there in the Gulf so that I can give you a bigger number for Bahrain. :lol:
> 
> Okay maybe a bit of an exaggeration on my part, will give you this one.


lots of churches...i have personally counted up to 15 in the U.A.E if i am not mistaken...


----------



## smussuw

rexdmx said:


> lots of churches...i have personally counted up to 15 in the U.A.E if i am not mistaken...


We have 32 Churches according to what I read !


----------



## 234sale

How many Mosques, 3000+ ?
Not including other places of worship.

Even though my views are agnostic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism


----------



## rexdmx

smussuw said:


> We have 32 Churches according to what I read !


i said I have *personally counted*.... i cant remember all of them


----------



## smussuw

^^ I was supporting ur point :nuts:


----------



## rbj

irrelevant and uninteresting post 4. See we can all do it and bore everyone to tears. Any chance of getting back to 'property and investment ' PLEASE


----------



## AppleMac

rbj said:


> Any chance of getting back to 'property and investment ' PLEASE


Yes please - who really cares how many churches there are. Until the amount impinges on property prices can we shift this argument to another thread.


----------



## rexdmx

smussuw said:


> ^^ I was supporting ur point :nuts:


ah of course...thanks


----------



## rexdmx

rbj said:


> irrelevant and uninteresting post 4. See we can all do it and bore everyone to tears. Any chance of getting back to 'property and investment ' PLEASE


understandable....:lol: back to basics every1


----------



## 234sale

Why have property agents stop looking out of the window in the morning...

Because they won't have anything to do in the afternoon..


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

234sale said:


> Why have property agents stop looking out of the window in the morning...
> 
> Because they won't have anything to do in the afternoon..


The sky is falling... sell, sell, sell!!!! :goodnight


----------



## Mavekris

^^ I want to sell sell sell show me who is intrested in buying.

Good bargains up for grab, for the one's with money


----------



## 234sale

Old Town Lovin... said:


> The sky is falling... sell, sell, sell!!!! :goodnight


:lol: you know how quickly this has changed,, It can go the other way in an instant as well.

I am that Dubai Eye quoted the CFO of Nakheel said to Dubai that significant projects were going to be shelved.

I think the priority developments would be the Palm Jumeriah, Marina, JLT, DIFC, Burj Dubai Downtown and Business Bay


----------



## bizzybonita

IISinbadII said:


> Here is how I see it:
> 
> Global financial crunch----> Less liquidity in Dubai ----> Banks tightening mortgages + Layoffs in the financial sector ------> Less affordability of public to invest in property -----> less demand for property + increased supply by 2010 ?-----> Layoffs in real estate sector ------> some expats moving out of Dubai -----> less demand for property -----> Correction in property prices -----> Off-plan project cancellations ------> decreased supply + low prices ------> Consolidation ------> Dubai becoming attractive again -------> Investors move back in ------> Increase in demand -------> prices moving up again.
> Correction over.


Give me something...nice summary VISION 

:applause::applause::applause:


----------



## Richard Head

^^ Interesting stuff, Docc I think you're spot on once again. If the flippers are a dying breed, and the off-plan prices are too high for end users (who can't get decent LTV mortgages anyway), then new developments will have no takers, developers will soon get wind of this and either drop their prices to more reasonable levels, or stop building something that is effectively unsaleable.

Nett result either way is that simple supply and demand economics continues to drive up both capital values and rental costs for completed stuff, especially villas and apartments in prime locations.

Suits me perfectly, cheers flipper dudes :cheers:


----------



## IISinbadII

Don't know about sales..... but the Rental market is Hot! 
Just to give you an example, a 2 BR in Dubai Marina offered for a 275k annual rent.


----------



## Mavekris

^^optimists should have a seperate thread.

Boring to see your comments which are based on predictions rather than real facts.

Dubai will be like this,like that after 2 yrs, even the financial conditions will change in europe and usa too:nuts:


----------



## docc

I think the Pessimists deserve a separate thread as well  Just kidding Mavekris; you know i like debating with you 

By the way, did you get a chance to look at the federal budget today? Front page Gulfnews; definitely some food for thought.

Also, since you disagree with our never ending optimism, i would definitely like to hear why you feel the contrary is true.


----------



## 234sale

Mavekris said:


> FYI Richard


Thing about this,, Under Law 13,, 11,2

Developer must refund 30% of what is paid.

So cancel the contract and only lose 113,426 AED not 150,00 AED


----------



## docc

IISinbadII said:


> Don't know about sales..... but the Rental market is Hot!
> Just to give you an example, a 2 BR in Dubai Marina offered for a 275k annual rent.


Well, is it a 2 BR duplex? If that's the case, then that's a fair price. If its your run of the mill, 1500 Sft apartment, then its overpriced and if someone does end up paying that much, then its definitely a new sign of things to come!


----------



## Mavekris

234sale said:


> Thing about this,, Under Law 13,, 11,2
> 
> Developer must refund 30% of what is paid.
> 
> So cancel the contract and only lose 113,426 AED not 150,00 AED


^^Will inform him the same, this will be good news to him.


----------



## Mavekris

docc said:


> I think the Pessimists deserve a separate thread as well  Just kidding Mavekris; you know i like debating with you
> 
> By the way, did you get a chance to look at the federal budget today? Front page Gulfnews; definitely some food for thought.
> 
> Also, since you disagree with our never ending optimism, i would definitely like to hear why you feel the contrary is true.


^^No Docc 
No i did not check the GN today.What is it about?

I just feel that Dubai is on a building spree to many projects with crazy prices.Just bcoz they are blessed with cheap labour and other resources.


----------



## docc

The federal budget has gone up by 10% to AED 42 Billion with funds especially allocated for the development of Education and Service sectors. Well, the basic gist of the article is that there isn't that bad a liquidity crunch as the naysayers claim. Ofcourse, things are way more tight than before which really is a good thing as money was being given out like soup at a soup kitchen!

And you're right about Dubai's building spree. There are a few projects that definitely need to be scaled back or even canceled (i'm looking at you, "The Universe"), but demand is there and will be there.

My advice to investors is to invest in U/C property or completed property especially in areas like JLT and Marina as most of these are undervalued anyway. Once the off-plan property segment slows down, demand for these will grow at a very rapid pace as these are the first of the master planned communities to be complete so you can't really go wrong with these investments.

However, please be extremely wary of purchasing anything off-plan at 1800-2000/Sft unless you have the funds to back it up. If someone has a surplus of funds, then i would suggest Maritime City as a long term bet simply because this will without doubt be the best place for condo living in ALL of Dubai. Again, this is long term so don't expect anything for the next 3-5 years.


----------



## Mavekris

Former VP Tatweer - Mizin arrested 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/535404-former-tatweer-exec-arrested-in-crackdown?ln=en


----------



## docc

It's good to see that the Govt is so proactive about doing some cleaning up. This will create greater investor confidence in the long run although it may seem like a bad thing now. Once, more honest people are in place, things should run smoothly and isn't that really something we all want?

Can anyone else feel the optimism in here?


----------



## legal eagle

docc said:


> However, please be extremely wary of purchasing anything off-plan at 1800-2000/Sft unless you have the funds to back it up. If someone has a surplus of funds, then i would suggest Maritime City as a long term bet simply because this will without doubt be the best place for condo living in ALL of Dubai. Again, this is long term so don't expect anything for the next 3-5 years.


Agreed re off-plan stuff over 1500

ahem... why will maritime city be best condo living ever? you are j-o-k-i-n-g right????:nuts:


----------



## docc

No, really. Maritime city will be extremely high end living. These are designed keeping the high-flying jetsetter's in mind. Every building has berths right in front of it, so those who enjoy the marina living can really partake in their hobby. Most of the buildings are going to be extremely high end in terms of services, finishings, etc. Also, since its a mixed used development, you can live and work in the same area.

Ofcourse, there are many other area's comparable, but IN MY OPINION, this would be the best place to stay. But what do i know..... Ofcourse, there's a very good possibility that i have to eat my words if this doesn't come true so my statements on Maritime City are based purely on the advertising materials that i have seen so far. Personally, i'm not very fond of yachts and boating and the likes, but for those who enjoy this, i don't think it gets better.


----------



## googly

234sale said:


> Thing about this,, Under Law 13,, 11,2
> 
> Developer must refund 30% of what is paid.
> 
> So cancel the contract and only lose 113,426 AED not 150,00 AED


Did you mean that the refund is 70%? If not, then your calculation is wrong. 

This is the first time I have heard of anyone selling their EMAAR property in DBD at a loss. Times have changed. hno:


----------



## docc

googly said:


> Did you mean that the refund is 70%? If not, then your calculation is wrong.
> 
> This is the first time I have heard of anyone selling their EMAAR property in DBD at a loss. Times have changed. hno:


Yea, pretty much. Let's say you paid 10% for a AED 1 Million property. If you're unable to pay the remaining payments, you can forfeit 30% of your 10% (which would be 30,000 out of 100,000) and have the rest returned to you.

Consider it an inconvenience fee.

And don't be surprised that such deals exist. Buyer's should have known not to purchase at 5000/Sft + simply for the purpose of flipping. Seriously, i don't know what they are thinking while paying such high prices.


----------



## Mavekris

docc said:


> It's good to see that the Govt is so proactive about doing some cleaning up. This will create greater investor confidence in the long run although it may seem like a bad thing now. Once, more honest people are in place, things should run smoothly and isn't that really something we all want?
> 
> Can anyone else feel the optimism in here?


^^Where is your running mate Richard?

You seem to be young so 
Docc - Obama.
Richard - Biden.

Your task is to convince the formumers to have faith in dubai real estate market even though it is burried neck deep.
:nuts:


----------



## docc

^^ Lol :lol:

That's an interesting analogy! Hmmm, suddenly i feel so powerful; must be the kool-aid :cheers:

Seriously though, i'll say it once and if necessary a hundred times. Dubai has a BRIGHT future and what you're seeing is something that was necessary to stabilize the over-heated market. Sure, you might not make money in 3 months, but you will in a year. You still made a profit right?

Dubai - 1
Mavekris - 0
(and all other naysayers)

Oh, could you also elaborate on the "buried neck deep" part?


----------



## FWIW

^^Who are the for-mum-ers?

:crazy:


----------



## docc

Delete.


----------



## googly

docc said:


> Yea, pretty much. Let's say you paid 10% for a AED 1 Million property. If you're unable to pay the remaining payments, you can forfeit 30% of your 10% (which would be 30,000 out of 100,000) and have the rest returned to you.


I wonder if this law applies to EMAAR. They always think of themselves as above the law. I know for a fact that they dont follow the Escrow Law and that none of their off-plan projects have an escrow account. Furthermore, they arent registring property sales with the Lands Dept either, as per Law 13. :nuts:


----------



## FWIW

^^That's a Brabus!!! Nice.... How much to ship it to Dubai though?


----------



## smussuw

Would they allow it to enter the country after the new law regarding old cars? You need to double check before buying !


----------



## 234sale

I forgot,, thanks... smussuw

Was looking a 230GE as well,, Must buy newer..


----------



## 234sale

FWIW said:


> ^^That's a Brabus!!! Nice.... How much to ship it to Dubai though?


That Brabus was 700,000AED new 


Think 5 - 7K AED to ship.

UK is best to get a LHD as they are cheaper, dollar is strong, everyone is selling toys.


----------



## docc

jixline said:


> @Docc on which basis do u expect mortgages to go back up to 80% ?


From my reliable contacts 

Richard,

My wall of optimism shall never crumble ! :banana:


----------



## smussuw

234sale said:


> I forgot,, thanks... smussuw
> 
> Was looking a 230GE as well,, Must buy newer..


They said that they will allow classic cars. I bet, expensive cars would be included so again, u need to double check !


----------



## 234sale

Interestinlg only 1 mortgage per client..

But now effective


----------



## 234sale

smussuw said:


> They said that they will allow classic cars. I bet, expensive cars would be included so again, u need to double check !



Would you have a GE in your colection,, 
I do think it is the No.1 car in Dubai to have. :lol:

But seriously I can find them now for 70,000AED, that is impossible price in Dubai.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

234sale said:


> That Brabus was 700,000AED new
> 
> 
> Think 5 - 7K AED to ship.
> 
> UK is best to get a LHD as they are cheaper, dollar is strong, everyone is selling toys.


What are the other costs to import a car to Dubai? Shipping? Customs is 5%? Any other fees? Whereas a new Audi A5 costs around 230K here... In the States, its about $45,000 USD (fully loaded), which equates to 165K here... This has been on my radar for a while now... Just been too lazy to follow up...


----------



## 234sale

I dont know  but I know some one that exports used cars, I will ask him next time I see him.


----------



## Sunny9999

Dubai_Steve said:


> Forget about selling now. There is huge demand and available capital for property in Dubai right now but 0 confidence to buy anything anywhere in the world. Everyone is just holding off buying anywhere. So do not attempt to sell, just hold also, don't attempt to sell below the market, there is no point, it will not sell no matter the price. Later people will start to buy again and prices will jump. Just wait and watch the rents increase as huge demand is there for living in Dubai. This increases the true worth of Dubai property, that related to the rental value.



i totally agree 100%


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> Forget about selling now. There is huge demand and available capital for property in Dubai right now but 0 confidence to buy anything anywhere in the world. Everyone is just holding off buying anywhere. So do not attempt to sell, just hold also, don't attempt to sell below the market, there is no point, it will not sell no matter the price. Later people will start to buy again and prices will jump. Just wait and watch the rents increase as huge demand is there for living in Dubai. This increases the true worth of Dubai property, that related to the rental value.


I'm reading all this negative stuff,peoples opinions yet still waiting for something substantial from those really in the know.
I've no doubt Dubai has been hit by the financial crisis,but to what extent.
It would be good for example for the head of Better Homes,Landmark etc to disclose what kind of activity the've had,and how are prices holding up etc
through Gulf News.This would give us all a much better idea.


----------



## 234sale

As I put here before the number of transactions is down by 75% in most agencies.

People are sitting on cash, waiting for a deal.


----------



## hot4dubai

234sale said:


> As I put here before the number of transactions is down by 75% in most agencies.
> 
> People are sitting on cash, waiting for a deal.


Maybe I am being really thick but why are people really panicking in Dubai, especially with completed property and if they paid a sensible price for new launches with the government developers. We hear rents are high, which influence the price of the property....nothing has changed there..there is not a mass exodus of people leaving Dubai..quite the opposite. 

If we really stop and look at this with a clear head...banks are lending, we are not in recession ourselves, still a fast developing city with ample opportunity and a government which is not in the red, like so many other countries..

Dont get it? Is the media to blame for all this negativity or is there more to it?


:nuts:


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> As I put here before the number of transactions is down by 75% in most agencies.
> 
> .


Where did u get that from?


----------



## Wannaberich

hot4dubai said:


> Dont get it? Is the media to blame for all this negativity or is there more to it?
> 
> 
> :nuts:


Not sure if its even the media.Most of the doom and gloom I've read is on forums like this.


----------



## 234sale

234sale said:


> 1. Prices of Business Bay
> 
> - Resale Commercial 1800 – 2400 AED sqft
> - Resale Residential 1800 – 2400 AED sqft
> - Developer Launch Prices Residential 2700 - 3000 AED sqft
> - Developer Launch Price Commercial 2700 – 3200 AED sqft
> 
> 
> 2. Sales Volumes across Dubai
> 
> - According to sources at Better Homes, Landmark and Asteco resale volumes are down by 50% to 75%.
> - Transaction Values have not increased in last month
> - Market reports suggest a slow down but not a correction in values
> 
> 
> 3. Investor Behavior
> 
> - Investors are still looking for immediate returns on properties.
> - Smaller investors are not looking to liquidate assets or repatriate funds due to TAX concerns in home countries
> - Some developers are considered not to be trusted due to lack of construction and cancellation of contracts
> - Money is available for projects in the right price point, cheapest properties on market still selling.
> 
> 
> 4. Funding/Equity Requirements
> 
> Completed Property
> - Commercial Property 30% Equity required of valuation
> - Residential Property 25% Equity required of valuation
> - These amounts have changed by -20% in last 2 months
> 
> Uncompleted Property
> - Commercial Property 25% Equity required of original price
> - Residential Property 20% Equity required of original price
> - These amounts have changed by -15% in last 2 months
> - Premium is becoming more difficult to finance, used to be 50% but now 30%.
> 
> 
> 5. Developer Attitude
> 
> - Finance for funding project has reduced significantly
> - Lack of reasonable priced land
> - Material cost are now reducing
> 
> 
> 6. Rental Market in Dubai
> 
> - Commercial rent minimum of 250AED sqft
> - Showroom Rent minimum of 500 AED sqft
> - Residential Rent minimum of 150 AED sqft
> - Rental market is still strong as companies try to expand Middle-East operations
> 
> 
> 7. Stock Market
> 
> - Local Stock markets are seeing strong negative pressure
> - Construction and Developer share values have slipped to milestone lows
> 8. Currency Issues
> 
> - Dollar Appreciation against most major currencies
> - Repatriation of spare funds
> - Dollar Re-peg / Revaluation no longer considered
> 
> 
> 9. Inflation
> 
> - Still Expected to continue at 8-12%
> 
> 
> 10. Taxation
> 
> - Until inflation decrease , UAE federal government may avoid introduction of Tax.
> 
> 
> This is 234sale research,, It just my opinion. If you have a reasonable argument please add it.


Based on personal contacts from at least 9 major companies.

Jll, CBRE, Asteco, Bhomes, Sherwoods, DWP, Landmark, Ocean View, Hamptons


----------



## Tractor

Even if the media is to blame, it has now affected peoples' behavior and they are subconsciously cutting back, if not pro-actively. I don't think there is anywhere in the world that will not be hurt ... its just a question of magnitude.

Worst case scenario for Dubai is forced / panic sellers ... the question is how many people out there might have over-extended themselves! No-one really knows.


----------



## Wannaberich

If a slowdown causes some projects to be cancelled,delayed,then that can only be good.
Theres too much going on as it is.
What cant be allowed to be delayed/cancelled are the projects for tourism.Dubailand etc.
Could this all seriously delay the time when supply catches up with demand?
Will this make completed properties more attractive and push the prices up?
Anyone.


----------



## hot4dubai

Wannaberich said:


> If a slowdown causes some projects to be cancelled,delayed,then that can only be good.
> Theres too much going on as it is.
> What cant be allowed to be delayed/cancelled are the projects for tourism.Dubailand etc.
> Could this all seriously delay the time when supply catches up with demand?
> Will this make completed properties more attractive and push the prices up?
> Anyone.


Been thinking the same thing....as long as they keep going at full steam with the tourism/commercial drive you cant go wrong....metro is powering ahead, you can now see, live & breathe the Palm and the spec of new hotels are just amazing...travelled a lot and have yet to find a place to compare to Dubai in terms of the whole package ie facilities, personal safety, job opportunities,education,healthcare and such a clean country! 

Just got back from New York and nearly kissed my walls when I got home. Why, because I am so proud to live in Dubai for all reasons just quoted!


----------



## jagmp

commodities n metal prices aer falling.now the developers who were squeezed by high prices can speed up the construction.they can buy in future n be safe.will that help stablising the property market?


----------



## Wannaberich

Is the strong dollar good or bad for countries like India,Iran,Pakistan?I read here that they are major buyers into the Dubai market.If a strong dollar is bad as in Europe,then this is a serious issue for the market.


----------



## jagmp

indians living in Dubai and outside India are the major buyers in the market.India allows limited foreign currency per person per year.i am not sure how much is the present allowance. but must be somewhere around 100000$ per person per year.so rich indians who have funds in foreign banks are the buyers.there is lot of black money (untaxed) circulating.they need to find home.


----------



## houshang

No matter what real estate agents say about prices, the developers do not seem to share their views. I had a pre-luanch offering from IFA today for top 4 floors loft aprtments of Laguna Tower in JLT at prices from AED 2450 per sq ft. At the end of the day agents are like undertakers, they do not care wheather the dead goes to hell or paradaise, they are minding their business.


----------



## docc

jagmp said:


> indians living in Dubai and outside India are the major buyers in the market.India allows limited foreign currency per person per year.i am not sure how much is the present allowance. but must be somewhere around 100000$ per person per year.so rich indians who have funds in foreign banks are the buyers.there is lot of black money (untaxed) circulating.they need to find home.


Its USD 1 million per year from what i have been told. Real estate market is in a slump in India as well.


----------



## houshang

Rial the Iranian currency is almost pegged to US dollar, so not much change againg Dirham. However dollar appreciation can compensate for some of the oil revenue loss Iran has had from recent fall in oil prices.


----------



## hot4dubai

houshang said:


> No matter what real estate agents say about prices, the developers do not seem to share their views. I had a pre-luanch offering from IFA today for top 4 floors loft aprtments of Laguna Tower in JLT at prices from AED 2450 per sq ft. At the end of the day agents are like undertakers, they do not care wheather the dead goes to hell or paradaise, they are minding their business.


true but in the long term the agents they are shooting themselves in the foot...lower prices...depressed market...less commision and less transactions!
Then what...leave Dubai to even more depressing scenario's at home...


----------



## IISinbadII

Wannaberich said:


> Is the strong dollar good or bad for countries like India,Iran,Pakistan?I read here that they are major buyers into the Dubai market.If a strong dollar is bad as in Europe,then this is a serious issue for the market.


Strong dollar should be bad for Dubai property buyers from these countries. Property becomes more expensive for them.


----------



## kano

^^^ thats why the market will be slow for some time i believe ....but once the storm passes which may take a while things will start to pick up in the property sector.At the moment people are buying gold which is 80 aed.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Gold i am not sure how many are buying it.

But exchange centres are definetly crowded.

It is giving a straight 25% more when compared to last month.

Who would like to invest in this uncertain and almost dead real estate market here


----------



## nisha

....................hno:


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> Strong dollar should be bad for Dubai property buyers from these countries. Property becomes more expensive for them.


Those who have already bought in Dubai from all the countries whose currencies are now devaluing against the dollar/dirham, are dancing because their profits have risen (in their local currencies). 

Those who intend to buy in Dubai now will be unhappy. However, as the cost of construction (steel/cement/etc) goes down, property prices should fall and this should compensate for the dirham gaining in value. 

In other words, I think property prices will now fall to reflect a slowdown in the worldwide ecomony. Unless, of course, developers/govt decide to purposely slow down construction thereby reducing supply.


----------



## V Kapoor

docc said:


> Its USD 1 million per year from what i have been told. Real estate market is in a slump in India as well.


Its actually 200000 USD per person per year for Indians.....but then if you have 2 or 3 family members who remit outside you can remit that much more. And this limit is for every year.....and most properties in Dubai are paid for over 2 to 3 years.


----------



## docc

^^ Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## V Kapoor

googly said:


> Those who have already bought in Dubai from all the countries whose currencies are now devaluing against the dollar/dirham, are dancing because their profits have risen (in their local currencies).


Yes thats true for Indians. Their rental income from Dubai just rose by 20-25 percent in their home currency in the last 2-3 months.....dollar appreciation!


----------



## IISinbadII

googly said:


> Those who have already bought in Dubai from all the countries whose currencies are now devaluing against the dollar/dirham, are dancing because their profits have risen (in their local currencies).


Yes, to some extent.......but devaluation means inflation. So their profits may have risen but cost of living is also more expensive. The only benefit is that their money was protected from devaluation because of early conversion to the dirham.


----------



## nisha

Morten_Denmark said:


> I am impressed you remembered
> 
> I am sure that oil will be very expensive the next 10 years - about the 200$ you have to take into consideration the value of the dollar but still I am sure we will see much higher levels compared to what we have seen yet. Now people think oil is cheap because it around 100 $  and give it some time this will be an accepted level. But still much more expensive compared to 2-3 years ago. And still a lot of liquidity are piling up in the Midlle East I can assure you.





nisha said:


> Agree still expensive and imagine it has a long way to go down.





Morten_Denmark said:


> So we disagree about the oil.


This is after the 1.5 million bpd cut announced by OPEC -Oil for December delivery dropped as much as $4.91, or 7.2 percent, to $62.93 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange and was at $63.08 a barrel at 12:31 p.m. London time.

Still disagree...?!


----------



## nisha

jixline said:


> @Docc on which basis do u expect mortgages to go back up to 80% ?


It will never....take it from an insider!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Even Select Property are only able to offer 60% finance over 15 years on their new RAK development on their lengthy payment plan. They offered 70% on their other developments.


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> Yes, to some extent.......but devaluation means inflation. So their profits may have risen but cost of living is also more expensive. The only benefit is that their money was protected from devaluation because of early conversion to the dirham.


No, inflation is history now, atleast in the near-to-medium term. You will see deflation in the coming months as petroleum prices and commodity prices dive. Like I said, expats whose local currencies have devalued are dancing in the streets. Their rental income has increased while we are heading towards deflation.

And the local dubai residents also have a reason to dance. The dirham has appreciated AND they too are heading towards deflation.


----------



## googly

Housemartins said:


> Googly,
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the DEMAND today ?


Dude, you have lots of time on your hands or what? You dug out an old post of mine in which I predicted that DEMAND in Dubai would continue. Unfortunately, things have changed drastically in the last few weeks that I atleast couldnt predict. Capitalist govts "nationalizing" banks, stock markets crashing, banks stopping lending, oil prices free-falling, dollar surging like crazy, etc. 

Under the new circumstances, only the very brave (or stupid) would say that Demand will push prises up. Nevertheless, I am not quitting Dubai and will stick it out. I am confident Dubai will recover quicker than other places. 
:cheers:


----------



## googly

Spurs said:


> When a really good deal presents itself will you recognise it??? I promise you there are some good deals out there right now from over reacting sellers..........don't wait to long.


Good point. Its tough to guage a "good" deal. But lets say, someone is willing to sell his DBD apartment for, say, 2000 dhs/sqft, or his Marina apartment for, say, 1000 dhs/sq ft, I would buy right away. 

Anyone selling at this rate?:nuts:


----------



## Wannaberich

I keep reading Sheik Mo won't let the Dubai market correct/collapse.He will implement changes/rules etc to make sure there is a healthy rise in prices.
SO WHY THE F--K ISN'T HE DOING SOMETHING ?!
Start by:
1/Stopping new launches except for those related to tourism,business.
2/Give visas to property owners.
3/Get the banks to give 90% mortgages again.
4/Get the tourist projects moving,Dubailand etc.Give the developers of the theme parks,hotels,etc a kick up the backside to start building.
5/Put more emphasis on getting the metro lines built earlier.
6/Cancelling Waterfront and other non-essential projects.

What else?


----------



## Morrismarina

Wannaberich said:


> I keep reading Sheik Mo won't let the Dubai market correct/collapse.He will implement changes/rules etc to make sure there is a healthy rise in prices.
> SO WHY THE F--K ISN'T HE DOING SOMETHING ?!
> Start by:
> 1/Stopping new launches except for those related to tourism,business.
> 2/Give visas to property owners.
> 3/Get the banks to give 90% mortgages again.
> 4/Get the tourist projects moving,Dubailand etc.Give the developers of the theme parks,hotels,etc a kick up the backside to start building.
> 5/Put more emphasis on getting the metro lines built earlier.
> 6/Cancelling Waterfront and other non-essential projects.
> 
> What else?


Here, here. :applause: He's got to get his arse into gear and do something fast. If confidence in Dubai goes.......it'll go really fast. As we've seen the last few weeks, as soon as a market turns the downside is unbelievably quick.


----------



## jagmp

docc said:


> Its USD 1 million per year from what i have been told. Real estate market is in a slump in India as well.


indian real estate has increased 300% in past five years.so fall in price 20 to 25% is nowhere near the price five years ago. market is definately flat without transaction.


----------



## houshang

There are some very pessimistic people in Dubai who always say THIS IS NOT REAL,There are also people who missed early upportunities to invest in Dubai property market and have always prayed for a downturn. There was a minor incedent on Dubai shores during 2005 Tsunami and this was so exagerated that the sales of beach front properties went down for few months and then came rumours about sinking of the Palm Jumeirah. This is all about talking the market down. No property market will react so hastely to events and Dubai is no diffrent.


----------



## agod

scoobudubai said:


> Select Prorperty have told us that we need to pay 1 percent of "the total purchase price" which is the total amount payable over the 15 year finance deal, not the actual purchase price before interest is added. This total purchase price is the amount that will actually be registered with the land registry.
> 
> Imagine if it was the U.K., and people were registering the total payable under their mortgage over 25 years as the sale price of their property, the inland revenue and the land registry would say fraud!
> 
> Are they allow to do this in Dubai? the house price index is going to be severely corrupted!



Does that mean then you will not get your deeds until you pay in full after 15 years? and therefore no residency, another crazy greedy idea, so what happens if you sell, you would have to sell the 15 year plan on as well, as the Registration fee has been paid on it, how do you split it? because the all in price is as you say, far higher than what they are worth in todays market. NUTS..........you cant stick the cost of a loan, and the cost of the property in one item, besides who in hell is going to mortgage it? when its value is inflated like that, BS, they need to sort that out, its stupid.

By the way I asked Trident about paying the fee in Marinascape, and they said when the whole building is handed over, and they pay theres, they will then ask for it, I think that is wrong as well, it seems no one really knows there arses from there elbow.

ALan


----------



## 234sale

1 British pound = 5.74 AED


----------



## Imre

Euro was similar before the Ramadan.

so, 1 USD= 1 EUR= 1 GBP ?


----------



## hot4dubai

Mavekris said:


> ^^Ahhh finally.. you are talking facts..:lol: Hope the rest of the optimistic gang learn from you
> 
> My point is who would of predicted Dubai would of taken off the way it has and people have made tons of money in the process in the past few years. It was the people who could see the potential and took the risk and held strong throughout troubled times ie 7/11 and Iraq war. These were major, distressing times for all and proved the test of time....yes there was a rocky patch inbetween, like we are having now, but Fact is Dubai passed the test time and time again. In London so many panicked over this and bailed out during those times, I was one of them....Wish I had more faith then!


----------



## docc

Good heavens.

The level of pessimism is insane. People are literally praying for the market to crash simply so that they can purchase at rock bottom prices. Once they do that, i'm confident that they will then start preaching about the greatness of Dubai....hypocrisy at its best!

I don't understand why people are so concerned about the growth of Dubai? Have businesses stopped operating? Have people stopped moving to Dubai? Have infrastructure projects slowed down? Are you facing any of the serious problems the West is facing right now such as major lay off's and increasing umemployment? Its true that acquiring mortgages has become an issue lately, but its only been a few weeks since this has happened and already geniuses around the world (including here on SSC) are predicting the death of Dubai. It's unbelievable how gullible, people can be; one rat jumps ship and the rest follow the pack.

If you're concerned about your relatively small investment in Dubai, think as to HOW MUCH the Govt. of Dubai must be analysing the situation as the FUTURE of Dubai depends on events taking place today. Do you really think that Sheikh Mohammed will let anything go wrong with this wonderful city? He will take a thousand big steps if he has to, to ensure that Dubai continues to boom. But for heaven's sake, don't expect the man to wake up one morning and declare a new set of rules to make you feel comfortable and confident about your investments. It's only been a few weeks since the gloom has set in, so atleast give him a month or two so that he can help create new policies to benefit everyone.

Heck, even if things are slow and Dubai stays this way for a year and normalizes thereafter, what have you lost? Nothing! Only losers are the flippers who now have no access to easy money!

Just have some more patience and a little bit of faith fella's; Dubai is NOT going to let us down.


----------



## Mavekris

Wannaberich said:


> I keep reading Sheik Mo won't let the Dubai market correct/collapse.He will implement changes/rules etc to make sure there is a healthy rise in prices.
> SO WHY THE F--K ISN'T HE DOING SOMETHING ?!
> Start by:
> 1/Stopping new launches except for those related to tourism,business.
> 2/Give visas to property owners.
> 3/Get the banks to give 90% mortgages again.
> 4/Get the tourist projects moving,Dubailand etc.Give the developers of the theme parks,hotels,etc a kick up the backside to start building.
> 5/Put more emphasis on getting the metro lines built earlier.
> 6/Cancelling Waterfront and other non-essential projects.
> 
> What else?


Good points 

They never targeted end users right from the begining.
People who had contacts got into prelaunches and were selling at a good premium very next day.

I have not seen any developer who has shown intrest in targetting end users.
And now prices have climbed so high that a geniune end user cannot afford it.

And now with investors out of the market, end users are the only one left so.

Huge correction in off plan ie projects which will be ready in 2010,2011.

I mean how is this justified.

completed or near completion property in JLT @1450 to 1550.
offplan like Remraam,palisades (somewhere in the middle of desert)any many more @ 1250 to 1350 which will be ready in 2011.
Off plan will come down like Nasdaq.


----------



## makerian

*Of Governments*



Wannaberich said:


> I keep reading Sheik Mo won't let the Dubai market correct/collapse.
> SO WHY THE F--K ISN'T HE DOING SOMETHING ?!
> 
> What else?


I've always thought that reasoning as extremely silly. You heard it when the stock market bubble burst a few years ago and Emaar share prices started dropping from their high of 18. "The govt won't let the market crash." Anyone check the price of Emaar lately? 

To begin, it isn't the government's job to bail out speculators whether it be in the stock market or the real estate market. The govt's job is to encourage investment which this govt has done brilliantly over the past few years. It has a concurrent responsibility to discourage speculation by regulating markets with adequate policies. 

Genuine investors (see below for definitions of investment/ speculation), accept that risk is an inherent part of any investment. As an investor you should weigh these risks and conduct a thorough analysis when committing your funds to any asset class. If you invested in Dubai giving significant weight to the premise that "govt will not let the market fall," you deserve to and are destined to suffer investment losses. 

Markets have a way of getting bigger than govts and their ability to control prices is limited. Yes, the govt does have some control over delivery and to that extent, it can get exert influence on the supply factor. But imo, this can easily backfire and exacerbate any negative sentiment prevalent in the market. 

While easy availability of mortgage and visas are also considerations that the govt has control over, there are a host of the factors to consider that drive demand and supply for real estate. To reiterate: Markets are bigger than governments. 

In the end market prices will fluctuate around fair value. Do you research, weigh the risks, examine your personal circumstances and then decide if you want to invest. If you have invested accept that, contrary to what has been posted by some people here, prices do not *always*go up. If you are concerned about what's happening in the market, re-examine your investment premises and decide if you want to stay invested but don't ask for the govt to bail you out. It won't and it shouldn't.

"An investment operation is one which upon thorough analysis offers safety of principal and an adequate return. All else is speculation." - Benjamin Graham


----------



## docc

Errr, the reason off-plan is more expensive usually is because you're paying by a payment plan and don't have to cough up the insane premiums required for purchasing completed or close to completion property. Ofcourse, with mortgages in place, it doesn't really matter.

But i agree that off-plan prices do need to come down; no doubt about it! Construction costs are also falling, so we have another reason for price correction in the off-plan category.


----------



## mackie1964

agod said:


> Does that mean then you will not get your deeds until you pay in full after 15 years? and therefore no residency, another crazy greedy idea, so what happens if you sell, you would have to sell the 15 year plan on as well, as the Registration fee has been paid on it, how do you split it? because the all in price is as you say, far higher than what they are worth in todays market. NUTS..........you cant stick the cost of a loan, and the cost of the property in one item, besides who in hell is going to mortgage it? when its value is inflated like that, BS, they need to sort that out, its stupid.
> 
> By the way I asked Trident about paying the fee in Marinascape, and they said when the whole building is handed over, and they pay theres, they will then ask for it, I think that is wrong as well, it seems no one really knows there arses from there elbow.
> 
> ALan



Timeplace was handed over back in May and the developer can't register the land as yet so we can't register the units.

Also Al, while we are talking about Timeplace, there are a few owners there who are Brits and can't get a residency visa (two of them at least have retired there) they have to travel to the UK and Back.......It's mad :bash:


----------



## 234sale

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/mortga...=452649&in_page_id=57&position=moretopstories

Monaco has overtaken central London as the world's most expensive property market

TAX free haven 

In Monaco - home to tax exiles such as retail billionaire Sir Philip Green, easyJet founder Stelios Haji-Ioannou and developer brothers Nick and Christian Candy - prime properties cost an average of £3,762 per square foot. This is ahead of London on £3,291, claims research from estate agency Knight Frank. 

Thats around 20,000AED sqft


----------



## IISinbadII

docc said:


> Errr, the reason off-plan is more expensive usually is because you're paying by a payment plan and don't have to cough up the insane premiums required for purchasing completed or close to completion property.


^^ That's not a valid reason. The only reason for off-plan to be expensive is if it has a better location, higher quality, amenities or things of that nature. 

In Dubai they were expensive because there was a president that prices go way up while the project completes and not that much after completion. Also possibly land price and cost of construction was higher for newer projects.....and above all there were speculators willing pay higher prices. People were using off-plan as a tool to flip and double their money.

Otherwise, due to the time factor and associated risk, off-plan should be cheaper than similar completed property, IMO.


----------



## docc

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ That's not a valid reason. The only reason for off-plan to be expensive is if it has a better location, higher quality, amenities or things of that nature.
> 
> In Dubai they were expensive because there was a president that prices go way up while the project completes and not that much after completion. Also possibly land price and cost of construction was higher for newer projects.....and *above all there were speculators willing pay higher prices. People were using off-plan as a tool to flip and double their money.*
> 
> Otherwise, due to the time factor and associated risk, off-plan should be cheaper than similar completed property, IMO.


Hit the nail on the head!

And i agree, off plan SHOULD be cheaper.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Docc welcome to the Realistic and pessimist club.

Richard is will surely follow you in a day or two


----------



## docc

^^Sorry to burst your bubble, but i'm still in the Optimist's club; i'm one of the board of directors infact! :lol:


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> Do you really think that Sheikh Mohammed will let anything go wrong with this wonderful city?
> .


Judging by the fact he's done nothing so far,yes.
I'm not just talking about reacting to the financial crisis.Even before all of this,say early this year,he should have seen the inevitable oversupply and stopped new launches.
Having said that,I'm seeing very few launches advertised here these days.
Am I right that they have slowed down?Are the devlopers looking at the situation and thinking this is a bad time to launch?We'll see what happens over the next few months?Maybe as has happened in the UK,buildings that are under construction will come to a stop,to be restarted when things improve?There are half finished sites like this all over the UK.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Your club will file bankruptcy very soon Wont be long :lol:


----------



## docc

Mavekris said:


> ^^Your club will file bankruptcy very soon Wont be long :lol:


When did you buy a Crystal Ball? Or is it one of those magic 8 balls that you get at the local toy store? I wouldn't depend on either and so shouldn't you :lol:.


----------



## Garden city

Why do some people here think that just because people could not purchase property earlier they missed on an investment and are praying for markets to come down? FYI, you need to understand that new people come to DUbai to seek employment and with the current property prices they cannot even dream about purchasing anytime in the near future ( i am talking about most people, not if you are appointed as a director in some company where your salary is on the high side ). Many people would not want to purchase in the first place because they are not comfortable with the laws changing here every other day, but they are left with no option because even rents are so high. What you need to undertsand is that rents in very old properties in areas like Bur Dubai, Karama etc. have shot over the roof just because of unrealistic property prices. It is all due to this reason many people are forced to live in Sharjah, if you all can't notice that then you got to be blind. I have come acorss many families who have started shifting their base back to their home country or more liberal places like Canada, Australia because they couldn't take this shit anymore.

Dubai market is full of speculators (The Govt has a major hand in fueling this speculation ) and it is all because of them that ordinary people who really want to stay here are having a tough time. If you had any time to read COlliers report about property market then i hope you noticed that they mentiond forseeing huge proplem because of the fact that most property launches have been targetting high-income individuals.

For those of you seeking govt to interfere and improve things are worst kind of speculators as Govt really can't do much. They are trying their best at coming up with strange villa laws which is pissing more people off.If Govt according to you has the best people then how do you attribute failure of Lehman Brothers, Meryll Lynch,AIG etc. DO they have retards running them?

The majority of pakistanis and Indians who have been staying here working odd jobs have accumulated enough money to start investing in their home countries and run businesses there.


The bottomline is, just don't announce here that Dubai will bear the test of time and other BS if you do not have any proof how that is being planned. I know a high ranked person in Noor Islamic Bank (Dubai govt owned bank) and he himself told that they are having a tough time because of crisis in US. THings are still not clear about how big an impact the US financial crisis can be. If you remember when subprime crisis started about an year ago even at that time no one was sure how big an impact it could be and even after one year the picture is not clear. Did anyone predict when subprime crisis started that it will have an impact on Dubai?? Well, apparently it did as it has dried up liquidity across the world.

I just get sick of people assigning individuals or govt the status of being omniscient and all powerful. what they need to understand is that all these organisations are run by humans who "can" do mistake and even a small mistake can cost them a lot.


----------



## IISinbadII

Wannaberich said:


> Judging by the fact he's done nothing so far,yes.
> I'm not just talking about reacting to the financial crisis.Even before all of this,say early this year,he should have seen the inevitable oversupply and stopped new launches...


As I have said before, the current problem is EXTERNAL. Regarding the internal issues, government had already addressed the speculation and flipping problems by mandating off-plan and mortgage registration as well as 30% payment restriction before sale. This would have regulated the market over-time resulting in lesser new launches. But the global financial crises just expedited everything. 

Still Dubai fundamentals remain strong and there are very few other options elsewhere for investors. This should be reason enough for people to stay put....... Besides its too late to sell anyway.


----------



## Mavekris

docc said:


> When did you buy a Crystal Ball? Or is it one of those magic 8 balls that you get at the local toy store? I wouldn't depend on either and so shouldn't you :lol:.



^^I didnt need to buy a " Crystal Ball".....its "IN BUILT"....tell me what more u want to know...and i will tell u without any charge "you know why"....:banana:


----------



## Mavekris

^^GARDEN CITY All of your 67 posts till date have been very meaningful.

Your last post is the best.

Dubai never encouraged end users.And it is hitting them hard


----------



## docc

^^ :lol:

Am i going to go on a date with Katrina Kaif tomorrow?

Wait, i think i know the answer to that. Seems my crystal ball is active too :lol:.


----------



## Mavekris

I dont need to use my crystal ball for that one....neither does anyone else!!!  Katrina is mine and will be mine for ever...n she doesnt have time to date with kids anyways..


----------



## docc

^^ Hmm, what was the number of the Mrs. again? Looks like i need to have a little chat with her :lol: J/k.


----------



## Garden city

Mavekris said:


> ^^GARDEN CITY All of your 67 posts till date have been very meaningful.
> 
> Your last post is the best.
> 
> Dubai never encouraged end users.And it is hitting them hard


Thank you, i have noticed a lot that people who are very positive about dubai's future just keep telling that it will bear the test of time but ignore the ground realities. I have mentioned this many time before and mentioning it again.

How do you expect a clerk, cashier, barber etc. to have a decent family life here? if not family life then staying alone is also very difficult. These guys if forced to stay in Sharjah have to depend on public transport to commute which we all know is the most unreliable in this world. I keep seeing frustrated faces everyday because people have to shell out big portion of their salaries to stay in shoddy living conditions and keep up with all BS laws from the govt. Eventually they reach a tipping point where they know that they can't take anymore and decide to move out of here.

I do not intend to or want to predict the future of this city but the direction it has taken recently has made living unsustainable here.


----------



## hot4dubai

IISinbadII said:


> As I have said before, the current problem is EXTERNAL. Regarding the internal issues, government had already addressed the speculation and flipping problems by mandating off-plan and mortgage registration as well as 30% payment restriction before sale. This would have regulated the market over-time resulting in lesser new launches. But the global financial crises just expedited everything.
> 
> Still Dubai fundamentals remain strong and there are very few other options elsewhere for investors. This should be reason enough for people to stay put....... Besides its too late to sell anyway.


I am 100% with you on this....I mean if this Global issue/credit crunch had not happenened then how many of you on this forum seriously think we would be having the kind of conversations we are having today. It was never a case of a disaster waiting to happen in Dubai was it otherwise the market would not have been as hot as it has been. Most of us are very happy with our investments which are a hundred times better than anything invested in the once almighty Wall Street.

Yes, they have been a few problems that needed ironing out but the Government are dealing with it with new laws & regs. This glitch is do to with external overseas factors and everyone is trying to squeeze Dubai in this category, but lets ask ourselves can we really relate what is happening here to USA/uk?

Dubai will boom again soon when all this panic calms down..at the moment undeserved negative sentiment is Dubai's worst enemy but Dubai is on a massive roll and will soon overcome this!


----------



## Wannaberich

IISinbadII said:


> As I have said before, the current problem is EXTERNAL.
> .


Of course it is but so what.Dubai cannot escape the effect of 'External' problems.It has to act to minimise the effect.
Lets see a big,bold move by Skeik Mo that will improve sentiment in Dubai.
As for my earlier question.Am I right in saying launches have reduced greatly?I don't see much posted in skyscraper threads these days?


----------



## Wannaberich

Garden city said:


> Thank you, i have noticed a lot that people How do you expect a clerk, cashier, barber etc. to have a decent family life here? if not family life then staying alone is also very difficult. These guys if forced to stay in Sharjah have to depend on public transport to commute


If New York and London can fill a city with millions of residents then why can't Dubai?What about two friends sharing a 2 bed appartment and sharing the rent.What about the guy with the 2 bed who rents out a room?
It can be done.
I guess a high proportion of residents in NY and Lon are also high earners.So why can't Dubai get that amount of high earners too?I'm reading that Dubai has been swamped with CVs from newly unemployed bankers,etc,from all over the world wanting to work in Dubai.I'm reading alot of banks want to open up in Dubai.So Dubai does have the potential to house many medium to high earners who can afford the rents.
Places like BBay are vital.When this place is finished,God knows how many workers it will house.Thousands of people needing a place to live and able to afford it with their tax free wages.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Wannaberich said:


> If New York and London can fill a city with millions of residents then why can't Dubai?What about two friends sharing a 2 bed appartment and sharing the rent.What about the guy with the 2 bed who rents out a room?
> It can be done.
> I guess a high proportion of residents in NY and Lon are also high earners.So why can't Dubai get that amount of high earners too?I'm reading that Dubai has been swamped with CVs from newly unemployed bankers,etc,from all over the world wanting to work in Dubai.I'm reading alot of banks want to open up in Dubai.So Dubai does have the potential to house many medium to high earners who can afford the rents.
> Places like BBay are vital.When this place is finished,God knows how many workers it will house.Thousands of people needing a palce to live and able to afford it with their tax free wages.


I am with Wanneberich on this one - what is happening in Dubai now is a globale problem and we have to wait the most of a year before things get better - that is seeing investors doing what they are best at. I would go to Dubai and live there if I could - and I think many others would like to do this.


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## 234sale

I have a spare room in the Old Town,, You could be my brother / cousin if we get busted


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## Tractor

It is correct to say that what is happening is a global problem - no doubt. However some countries are better prepared to cope with the situation than others (Iceland being a good example).

Official statistics say that 60-70% of property bought in Dubai is not owned by end users or those relocating. It is owned by speculators / investors looking to make a profit. That is exactly why there *might* be a big problem in Dubai ... if sentiment swings enough and those investors decide to get their money out of the country, a crash is inevitable and I don't see Abu Dhabi giving Dubai enough money to buy up all the excess stock to support the market.

Some say the banks were already supporting the market pre-crunch which would put them in a vulnerable position.

In order to support this level of 'luxury' or high-end properties Dubai needs to attract far more professionals from abroad. My cousin (a chartered surveyor) was offered a job in Dubai or redundancy - he took the redundancy. Another close friend has moved to Dubai but said that the pay rise and tax benefits only just worked in his favor enough for him to consider it - and he is single & earning 300,000 AED per year. Certainly Dubai's property market is far too large if counting on 500,000+ AED/year earners only. This is where it is fundamentally different from places like Monaco.

Personally I think a correction would be healthy for Dubai and ensure the longer term success of the country.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Tractor said:


> It is correct to say that what is happening is a global problem - no doubt. However some countries are better prepared to cope with the situation than others (Iceland being a good example).
> 
> Official statistics say that 60-70% of property bought in Dubai is not owned by end users or those relocating. It is owned by speculators / investors looking to make a profit. That is exactly why there *might* be a big problem in Dubai ... if sentiment swings enough and those investors decide to get their money out of the country, a crash is inevitable and I don't see Abu Dhabi giving Dubai enough money to buy up all the excess stock to support the market.
> 
> Some say the banks were already supporting the market pre-crunch which would put them in a vulnerable position.
> 
> In order to support this level of 'luxury' or high-end properties Dubai needs to attract far more professionals from abroad. My cousin (a chartered surveyor) was offered a job in Dubai or redundancy - he took the redundancy. Another close friend has moved to Dubai but said that the pay rise and tax benefits only just worked in his favor enough for him to consider it - and he is single & earning 300,000 AED per year. Certainly Dubai's property market is far too large if counting on 500,000+ AED/year earners only. This is where it is fundamentally different from places like Monaco.
> 
> Personally I think a correction would be healthy for Dubai and ensure the longer term success of the country.


I believe there is already a significant shift between end-users and investors. When I was trying selling an apartment some time ago it were all end-users contacting me - not a single "investor". Areas like JBR are now moving toward an end-user place. This month 100 units have been for sale in Bahar 4 - and these were going very fast at 2300 psf (seaview ones) - and to my information - which are only hearsay - it was not investors buying.


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## dlnash

Giving the uncertainty in countries in Europe as well as the US, people are seriously thinking about relocating to Dubai...They can get good high level education there for their children, it's pretty safe to live there, the standard of living is also quite high...With numerous companies openning offices in Dubai, they can get a decent job too or maybe start their own business or something..
The fact about Dubai is that it is not only the speculators and investors controlling the market,, there are actually a LOT of end-users....I don't know anyone yet who is stuck with completed property..even if its empty, people are preferring to keep them as holiday homes...whats the harm in that..


----------



## dlnash

Add to that, there are lots of people who aren't looking for 50-100% returns within 6 months...people generally want to invest where there is peace of mind , where they feel their investment is safe..
With the current scenario,, I think some of the speculators will infact become end-users too as they will have to liquidate assets in their home countries in order to make the next payments...


----------



## Richard Head

HateTorch said:


> In HongKong, they have extremely well interconnected metro,buses,taxis,boats between the residential/offices/airport areas that make transport by private car a hassle rather than a necessity.
> That means the average Joe can live well off in the *remote residential areas *and commuting to work is practically effortless.


Could these areas be considered as similar to, oh I don't know, random example, maybe Ajman? Don't think you read all my post.


----------



## malec

But there's no plan whatsoever at the moment to provide good public transport between dubai and ajman, or sharjah even.


----------



## Richard Head

malec said:


> But there's no plan whatsoever at the moment to provide good public transport between dubai and ajman, or sharjah even.


Hence my reference point being 10 - 15 years. There will be. There has to be.


----------



## Philippa C

My husband works in transportation field. There are indeed plans to extend the metro to Sharjah. There are also plans for rail links to Abu Dhabi. In addition, there are also several more metro lines in the offing - Blue and Purple lines and several developments will have their own "mini-metros" linked into the metro. 

Of course it would have been better if the rail infrasctructure had been in place before the massive building projects began. Same can be said for roads but you can't deny that the gov is now pouring money into correcting problems.


----------



## Wannaberich

Philippa C said:


> I agree with Richard that Dubai is targetting a particular type of resident and is already pricing the middle class out of the market. Residents in Dubai will be high earners and their staff - trying to be pc here but it basically means housemaids, drivers, gardeners who are on sponsor's visa and are provided with accommodation. There will be no middleclass.
> .


So in 10 years when the population is around 5/7 million,there will be no middle class?thats pretty ambitious.Thats alot of high income earners in one city.As for Monaco,the population is just under 33.000 so you can't compare.

Who actually do you class as 'middle class'.The project manager from the UK on a contract worth,say,£60.000 per year with a villa at ARanches thrown in?
Why can't Dubai be full of these people?
These middle income people are necessary for Dubai and vital for certain jobs.
They will earn enough to live there and not in the suburbs.
I also think it's very ambitious to think Dubai will only attract middle class/rich tourists.If they want to achieve the 15million visitors I keep reading about,
then Disneyland package type deals may be necessary.


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> by the way even after the recent dollar strength $200k is still 125k sterling, never been 160 in recent times (could change soon though)


Your right of course,I got my sums wrong.
If you check the 'craiglist',your'll find 3 bed appartments in Manhatten for around $4000/$5000 per month.Enough for a family and leaves you with plenty from a $200k salary to live on.


----------



## THEPOINT

Richard Head said:


> I think a fundamental point here is being missed. A lot of arguments predict the demise of Dubai because (paraphrasing) " the average Joe can not afford to live here anymore". Well, Dubai is pushing itself as a major financial and commercial centre, and arguably is well on track to achieving this aim. How many "average Joes" in NYC, London, Hong Kong etc can afford to live in the city. The simple answer is they don't:
> 
> Manhattan ---------New Jersey
> 
> London-------------Home Counties / Oxfordshire etc.
> 
> Hong Kong----------Not very sure on this one, someone help me
> 
> Dubai---------------Ajman, RAK etc.
> 
> OK this is a long term prognosis, and these other citiies have developed over many decades, but the UAE is fast-tracking this model, and anyone who thinks that 10 years from now, anyone earning (for the sake of a number) $100k - $200k annually in todays terms, will be able to live in the heart of the city, is fooling themselves. It doesn't happen today in any big city. A commute of an hour or more is the norm. I'm very lucky, I have a salary in that range and can afford to live in the city, but only because I got in very early when prices were ridiculously low.
> 
> As for supply and demand, I would go as far as to say that demand for property in Dubai, for people that work in Dubai, will never drop to a point where Dubai can supply it all, what other large city can do this anywhere in the world? Simply the radius in which people are prepared / can afford to live will expand over time so that everyone is accomodated. Needless to say a key requirement for this change to develop effectively is good mass transit systems, this has already been recognised and is in development.
> 
> The end result as this scenario develops is that property in good locations in the city will remain incredibly expensive, just as it is today in Manhattan, London CBD, Hong Kong CDB etc. Only those on $500k+ salaries will have the luxury of living in the heart of the city, just like they do today in NYC, Lon.......................OK, think everyone got the picture Richard
> 
> 
> So, in summary, if my property loses 20, 30, even 40% of its value in a short term correction, there's absolutely no way I will hit the panic sell button, and anyone that does that, who could have chosen to stay for the long haul, will regret it 10-15 years from now.


Richard thats made me feel better !! 

Good piece of reasoning -and there is a lot of transport infrastructure that can happen in 10 years to connect to Ajman RAK and sharjah etc also more importantly IF UAE remains tax free the Western population will continue to flock there because one other consequence of the credit crunch/collapse will be that the Western governments (Led by my friend Brown) will be increasing our taxes to pay for their intervention no doubt


----------



## Philippa C

Wannaberich said:


> Who actually do you class as 'middle class'.The project manager from the UK on a contract worth,say,£60.000 per year with a villa at ARanches thrown in?
> Why can't Dubai be full of these people?
> These middle income people are necessary for Dubai and vital for certain jobs.
> They will earn enough to live there and not in the suburbs..


Perhaps I should not have used the term "middle class" as it's a bit vague. Dubai will be an expensive city to live in and only people whose expertise (in whatever field) can justify the salary and accommodation package will be living here.


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Your right of course,I got my sums wrong.
> If you check the 'craiglist',your'll find 3 bed appartments in Manhatten for around $4000/$5000 per month.Enough for a family and leaves you with plenty from a $200k salary to live on.


Yes you did get them wrong, your 200k is about 140 after tax, so you're paying close to 50% of the balance in rent. Leaves you 80k to run a family on. In Manhattan. Not going to happen. You picked the top end of my range just to be argumentative, and failed. Do you not think my underlying point may have some merit, or would it hurt you to say so?

And btw, we were never taking about renting, feel free to prove me wrong in the buying scenario, how much to buy that family home in Manhattan?. Or better still quit trying to discredit my reasonably logical assumptions and put forward your own reasoned arguments to the contrary.


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> Yes you did get them wrong, your 200k is about 140 after tax, so you're paying close to 50% of the balance in rent. Leaves you 80k to run a family on. In Manhattan. Not going to happen. You picked the top end of my range just to be argumentative, and failed. Do you not think my underlying point may have some merit, or would it hurt you to say so?
> 
> And btw, we were never taking about renting, feel free to prove me wrong in the buying scenario, how much to buy that family home in Manhattan?. Or better still quit trying to discredit my reasonably logical assumptions and put forward your own reasoned arguments to the contrary.


Jesus,someones a little touchy out there.
If you call offering another opinion being 'argumentative' thats up to you.
Do you always have to be right?
Had you made it clear $200k was before tax then different story.
Will try to avoid commenting on your future posts so as not to upset you.


----------



## houshang

Richard-These arguments managed to bring the best out of you.


----------



## Wannaberich

Philippa C said:


> Perhaps I should not have used the term "middle class" as it's a bit vague. Dubai will be an expensive city to live in and only people whose expertise (in whatever field) can justify the salary and accommodation package will be living here.


Perhaps 10 years down the line,another few million units built,this will bring rents down and Dubai won't be so expensive after all?
Only time will tell.
Personally I think it would be a shame if Dubai didnt have a certain percentage of 'regular people' living there.


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> Perhaps *10 years down the line,another few million units built*,this will bring rents down and Dubai won't be so expensive after all?
> Only time will tell.
> Personally I think it would be a shame if Dubai didnt have a certain percentage of 'regular people' living there.


A few million units in 10 years? So an average of 300,000 units will be built each year to be qualified as a few million units in 10 years then? Really? That's the number of units that you think will be built in 10 years?

Wow.

Maybe you'd like to revise your statement .

Btw, the current housing shortage in Dubai is about 300,000 units. This includes all income segments.


----------



## Wannaberich

----


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> A few million units in 10 years? So an average of 300,000 units will be built each year to be qualified as a few million units in 10 years then? Really? That's the number of units that you think will be built in 10 years?
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Maybe you'd like to revise your statement .
> 
> Btw, the current housing shortage in Dubai is about 300,000 units. This includes all income segments.


Who pulled your chain?!
Obviously I was being flippant.Did you really take me seriously?
mmm.


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Jesus,someones a little touchy out there.
> If you call offering another opinion being 'argumentative' thats up to you.
> Do you always have to be right?
> Had you made it clear $200k was before tax then different story.
> Will try to avoid commenting on your future posts so as not to upset you.


Sure, because salaries are always quoted "after tax" everywhere else. I'm all for stimulating debate mate, but I just felt you were countering my assumptions without making any new ones of your own. Where I come from that's the difference between constructive debate and destructive argument. Give me some logical, stimulating opinions and we can kick it around all night. I still believe that my lengthy post had many valid views, the precise details are illustrative and therefore to some extent not the point of debate. Not touchy at all, i'm never touchy after 5 Stellas :cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> Who pulled your chain?!
> Obviously I was being flippant.Did you really take me seriously?
> mmm.


Thanks for the clarification


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> Sure, because salaries are always quoted "after tax" everywhere else. I'm all for stimulating debate mate, but I just felt you were countering my assumptions without making any new ones of your own. Where I come from that's the difference between constructive debate and destructive argument. Give me some logical, stimulating opinions and we can kick it around all night. I still believe that my lengthy post had many valid views, the precise details are illustrative and therefore to some extent not the point of debate. Not touchy at all, i'm never touchy after 5 Stellas :cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:


Yes you did make many valid points.No disputing that.
I wasnt trying to be 'destructive',just offering another opinion.
Try and stay off the Stellas,your'll be standing over the toilet all night.


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> Btw, the current housing shortage in Dubai is about 300,000 units. This includes all income segments.


Is that right?I've read supply is due to meet demand by late 2009.
That would mean 300.000 more units to be available in 12 months?


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> Is that right?I've read supply is due to meet demand by late 2009.
> That would mean 300.000 more units to be available in 12 months?


Errr, no it isn't. As much as everyone would like to believe that, its not going to happen; supply is NOT going to meet demand. Oh and my source of info is connected to RERA so i'm not talking out of my rear side.

Now, i'm quite sure someone is going to reply by saying, "So, you're saying that every single unit in Dubai is going to be filled?". No, i'm saying there is a HUGE ass demand which cannot be met with the current U/C projects. And you're always going to see a lot of unfilled apartments simply because they are either second homes, holiday homes or just an investment for capital gains.


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Yes you did make many valid points.No disputing that.
> I wasnt trying to be 'destructive',just offering another opinion.
> Try and stay off the Stellas,your'll be standing over the toilet all night.


OK, thanks for both acknowledging my thoughts, and the Stella advice. Both taken in good spirit, even if I do choose to pop the top off a couple more cold ones before bed


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> you're always going to see a lot of unfilled apartments simply because they are either second homes, holiday homes or just an investment for capital gains.



Great point.This is why it's impossible for these reports to predict when demand will be met.
Plus the fact they can only guess when U/C units will actually be completed and handed over.


----------



## IISinbadII

How long would this slowdown last. When will the market pickup again?

*Your Predictions.*


----------



## hot4dubai

IISinbadII said:


> How long would this slowdown last. When will the market pickup again?
> 
> *Your Predictions.*


Hard to tell mate but dont panic or worry...we are just going though a phase due to the Global Situation...Just read in GN today that property sales in Washington USA for previously owned US homes rose 5.5% which is biggest gain since July 2003. I mut say I was surprised to hear that but lets hope that this may be a sign that things may get to some sort of normality?


----------



## nri-hotels

Heard from some sources in property market, that some new rules are being made to prevent speculative selling in local real estate. Something like quotas on selling contracts to prevent price meltdown like those of other countries. 

Is it true?


----------



## Spurs

*UAE / Dubai population*

Its one month old but I found this an interesting read: 

http://uaeinteract.com/docs/Expat_growth_widens_UAE_demographic_gap__/32128.htm


----------



## docc

IISinbadII said:


> How long would this slowdown last. When will the market pickup again?
> 
> *Your Predictions.*


Well, my crystal ball is currently out of commission, so i'm going to just have to use my 6th sense.

The slowdown in my opinion will last for around 3-6 months, until the Govt. finally decrees new residency laws along with reforms in mortgage segment. Once there's more clarity on both these issues, things will start picking up again.

The biggest gainers will be those who have invested in either completed property or close to completion property. Off-plan property segment will see slow growth with a potential price drop in short-term thanks to the uninformed panic sellers. Right now it's a buyers market IMO, so if you see a good deal (there are PLENTY out there), snap it up and this will reward you handsomely in a year or two.

Btw, despite all the hoopla, Nakheel has gone ahead and launched Forbidden City and DP have gone ahead and announced construction of hotels in Bawadi. The PD fiasco, we all know is just mud-slinging my the media. Nakheel did the smart thing by converging all its efforts in finishing construction of the Deira islands first, simple because these can then be sold to respective developers. The trunk, fronds and crescent will take another 5 years to complete, so it makes absolute sense to put those on hold. Ofcourse, our brilliant naysayers will look at this as Nakheel running out of money and the Dubai market going downhill. NOT TRUE.


----------



## baba toto

porshe911 said:


> baba toto said:
> 
> 
> 
> soon:dj:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, if you look at the Jumeirah Village newsletter, you get the impression that Triangle is a year ahead from Circle in terms of infrastructure, etc....
> 
> But the truth seems to be the opposite!!!:bash:......How come??
Click to expand...


----------



## rexdmx

IISinbadII said:


> How long would this slowdown last. When will the market pickup again?
> 
> *Your Predictions.*


dont bother predicting the market. you would be better off flipping a coin.
just focus on obtaining valued assets... (even the pros can't do it properly so how about the amateurs with no background?)


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ How do you find deals and distress sales?


----------



## noir-dresses

Im no expert, but the speculating is starting to touch a few nerve's, lot's of negative talk going around, but some how I block it out of my head, and focus on the positive. Im definately not going to panic, and sell, on the contrary, going to ride it out to the end cause I have faith in Dubai. Im kind of lucky cause the project's I invested in are very near complition, and if the value does go down, which I doubt will happen, I'll just rent them out, so in my opinion Im still progressing financially. The worst thing that can happen is panic selling which Im starting to see here, and there. Maybe some people are just over extended, I bought my realestate with good old cash in hand, no credit what so ever, over 90 percent paid off. When I really look at it, the real reason I bought in Dubai was to have my own retreat in the sun out of pure love for Dubai which was there for me when it was good, and I'll be there for it if it get's hard.


----------



## Wannaberich

hot4dubai said:


> Hard to tell mate but dont panic or worry...we are just going though a phase due to the Global Situation...Just read in GN today that property sales in Washington USA for previously owned US homes rose 5.5% which is biggest gain since July 2003. I mut say I was surprised to hear that but lets hope that this may be a sign that things may get to some sort of normality?


Maybe thats because the US hit trouble months before the rest of the world
and took action by slashing interest rates.Now perhaps they are starting to see the benefits.
The rest of us have just started the slide downwards so could be a while before any signs of a recovery show.Just my opinion.
I guess if the US didnt shows signs of recovery soon,and with the UK on that slide downwards,
the pound would take another huge knock against the dollar?


----------



## rexdmx

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ How do you find deals and distress sales?


good agents can get them for you but only in good locations
there are several


----------



## Wannaberich

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ How do you find deals and distress sales?


Errrr,yeah,cos I havent seen any either.
Maybe it's just that they don't get advertised?Maybe it's a case of making offers way below market value, and waiting till you get the desperate seller who says yes?


----------



## rexdmx

noir-dresses said:


> Im no expert, but the speculating is starting to touch a few nerve's, lot's of negative talk going around, but some how I block it out of my head, and focus on the positive. Im definately not going to panic, and sell, on the contrary, going to ride it out to the end cause I have faith in Dubai. Im kind of lucky cause the project's I invested in are very near complition, and if the value does go down, which I doubt will happen, I'll just rent them out, so in my opinion Im still progressing financially. The worst thing that can happen is panic selling which Im starting to see here, and there. Maybe some people are just over extended, I bought my realestate with good old cash in hand, no credit what so ever, over 90 percent paid off. When I really look at it, the real reason I bought in Dubai was to have my own retreat in the sun out of pure love for Dubai which was there for me when it was good, and I'll be there for it if it get's hard.


good point there...besides cash is always a depreciating asset.
it is better to have a good asset or invest in treasury bills or something like that. having said that cash is king and you might as well keep it if only there is no superior value asset to buy.


----------



## IISinbadII

noir-dresses said:


> Im no expert, but the speculating is starting to touch a few nerve's, lot's of negative talk going around, but some how I block it out of my head, and focus on the positive. Im definately not going to panic, and sell, on the contrary, going to ride it out to the end cause I have faith in Dubai. Im kind of lucky cause the project's I invested in are very near complition, and if the value does go down, which I doubt will happen, I'll just rent them out, so in my opinion Im still progressing financially. The worst thing that can happen is panic selling which Im starting to see here, and there. Maybe some people are just over extended, I bought my realestate with good old cash in hand, no credit what so ever, over 90 percent paid off. When I really look at it, the real reason I bought in Dubai was to have my own retreat in the sun out of pure love for Dubai which was there for me when it was good, and I'll be there for it if it get's hard.



kay:


----------



## docc

Regarding those great deals, its highly unlikely that you will ever see them advertised as they usually get sold as soon as they are put up for sale. I've seen quite a few distress sales that made me drop my jaw, not in awe but at the naivety of the seller. Just stay in touch with your contacts, agents, friends etc as word spreads on good deals. Also, with the market going so slow, agents are pushing hard to make a sale and can really play hardball on your behalf, so make sure you have a good kitty of agents as well.

In today's market, cash is king.


----------



## scoobudubai

*escrow accounts*

has anybody been kept up to date with activities relating to their escrow account, including full visibility of statements which by law the buyer is entitled to see?

Select Property has been giving us the runaround over the last year. Are we correct in assuming they don't wish to uphold the law? they have something to hide?


----------



## rexdmx

@ docc i thought i was king!...do you know what "rex" means


----------



## V Kapoor

Sorry for sounding dumb......but please will someone elaborate the term "Off-Plan".
We hear it far too often....
Would you consider an under construction Tower half way through and 30 to 40 percent paid for... off-plan?


----------



## Imre

just got now, I think rent prices will go up again:

26 October 2008

*IMMEDIATE RELEASE*

*
DM to start disconnecting electricity 
and water in violating villas*

Dubai: As the one month deadline for multiple families staying in villas has come to an end by Friday, 24th October 2008, Dubai Municipality will now start disconnecting electricity and water in the violating villas. 

"No more deadlines would be given to the residents of these villas as we have given ample time for them to vacate," said Omar Mohammed AbdulRahman, Head of Building Inspection Section in the Buildings Department. 

He said that those who violate the Municipality deadline will face strict action that amounts to fines, which may go up to Dhs50,000. 

"The fines may not be restricted to villa owners. The tenants who refuse to comply with our regulations will also face fines," AbdulRahman said.

"After conducting inspections we had given notices to the families staying in villas telling them only one family can stay in a villa. As per the notices, Dubai Electricity and Water Authority (DEWA) will now be cutting water and electricity connection as the notice period has come to an end," he said.

Dismissing the news about allowing close relatives to stay in one villa, AbdulRahman said that no cousins or other people will come under the definition of the family. "A family means father, mother and children. We have certain regulations and those who violate them will face action," he said.

"Our inspectors have already conducted inspections in different areas and found that there are violations. Now inspections are all over, it is action. All partitions made without Municipality permission should be removed. No extra rooms or bathrooms. No structure constructed without permission would be allowed to continue. All of them should be demolished now," AbdulRahman said.

"We had started the campaign against bachelors staying in family residential areas in 2005. As part of that campaign we had issued warnings that many families staying in one residential unit after making alterations inside the building illegally would not be allowed. It is against the rules and regulations regarding building safety as well as the social and urban planning norms," he said.

"Service amenities like water, electricity and sewage are provided according to the affection plan of the buildings. When the residential unit is used by more families against the plan it becomes difficult to manage resulting in the accumulation of waste, affecting public safety and environment," said AbdulRahman.

"The Municipality had notified the building owners and real estate companies not to rent out these premises to bachelors and to allow only one family to stay in a single residential unit. We had also informed them that all services would be disconnected and the future transactions with them would be stopped," he said.

Regarding flats, he said there is a Municipality regulation on the number of people who can stay in a residential unit. "If anybody complains about huge number of families staying in a small area in a single flat creating social problem for neighbours, the Municipality will conduct inspections and take necessary actions," said AbdulRahman. 

"So far, we have not started any campaign against flats being shared by families. There are rules and regulations regarding environment and public safety in flats. Partitions are not allowed without the Municipality permission," he said.
(Dubai Municipality)


----------



## IISinbadII

V Kapoor said:


> Sorry for sounding dumb......but please will someone elaborate the term "Off-Plan".
> We hear it far too often....
> Would you consider an under construction Tower half way through and 30 to 40 percent paid for... off-plan?


^^ In my dictionary anything that is not complete or near completion is off-plan.


----------



## docc

Well, from my understanding off-plan is anything that hasn't started construction yet i.e everything is currently on paper only. Atleast that's what i have been lead to believe so far!


----------



## docc

Imre said:


> just got now, I think rent prices will go up again:
> 
> 26 October 2008
> 
> *IMMEDIATE RELEASE*
> 
> *
> DM to start disconnecting electricity
> and water in violating villas*
> 
> Dubai: As the one month deadline for multiple families staying in villas has come to an end by Friday, 24th October 2008, Dubai Municipality will now start disconnecting electricity and water in the violating villas.
> 
> "No more deadlines would be given to the residents of these villas as we have given ample time for them to vacate," said Omar Mohammed AbdulRahman, Head of Building Inspection Section in the Buildings Department.
> 
> He said that those who violate the Municipality deadline will face strict action that amounts to fines, which may go up to Dhs50,000.
> 
> "The fines may not be restricted to villa owners. The tenants who refuse to comply with our regulations will also face fines," AbdulRahman said.
> 
> "After conducting inspections we had given notices to the families staying in villas telling them only one family can stay in a villa. As per the notices, Dubai Electricity and Water Authority (DEWA) will now be cutting water and electricity connection as the notice period has come to an end," he said.
> 
> Dismissing the news about allowing close relatives to stay in one villa, AbdulRahman said that no cousins or other people will come under the definition of the family. "A family means father, mother and children. We have certain regulations and those who violate them will face action," he said.
> 
> "Our inspectors have already conducted inspections in different areas and found that there are violations. Now inspections are all over, it is action. All partitions made without Municipality permission should be removed. No extra rooms or bathrooms. No structure constructed without permission would be allowed to continue. All of them should be demolished now," AbdulRahman said.
> 
> "We had started the campaign against bachelors staying in family residential areas in 2005. As part of that campaign we had issued warnings that many families staying in one residential unit after making alterations inside the building illegally would not be allowed. It is against the rules and regulations regarding building safety as well as the social and urban planning norms," he said.
> 
> "Service amenities like water, electricity and sewage are provided according to the affection plan of the buildings. When the residential unit is used by more families against the plan it becomes difficult to manage resulting in the accumulation of waste, affecting public safety and environment," said AbdulRahman.
> 
> "The Municipality had notified the building owners and real estate companies not to rent out these premises to bachelors and to allow only one family to stay in a single residential unit. We had also informed them that all services would be disconnected and the future transactions with them would be stopped," he said.
> 
> Regarding flats, he said there is a Municipality regulation on the number of people who can stay in a residential unit. "If anybody complains about huge number of families staying in a small area in a single flat creating social problem for neighbours, the Municipality will conduct inspections and take necessary actions," said AbdulRahman.
> 
> "So far, we have not started any campaign against flats being shared by families. There are rules and regulations regarding environment and public safety in flats. Partitions are not allowed without the Municipality permission," he said.
> (Dubai Municipality)


Only a matter of time till this rule applies to apartments as well. This is bloody ridiculous! Where are all the low to middle income earners currently sharing apartments supposed to go? Looks like Ajman and Sharjah are going to see a new wave of residents in the coming years.


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ IC and DG if they want to stay in Dubai.


----------



## malec

^^ One day they're going to wake up and see that all the low income earners will have disappeared and there'll be nobody to work in the shop, nobody to collect your trash, nobody to drive the taxis and buses, etc.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

malec said:


> ^^ One day they're going to wake up and see that all the low income earners will have disappeared and there'll be nobody to work in the shop, nobody to collect your trash, nobody to drive the taxis and buses, etc.


Similar scenarios have played out in other parts of the world - it often resulted in low salaries have been increased as the only possibility to attract these people ....


----------



## docc

malec said:


> ^^ One day they're going to wake up and see that all the low income earners will have disappeared and there'll be nobody to work in the shop, nobody to collect your trash, nobody to drive the taxis and buses, etc.


Why? Low income earners can live in Sharjah, Ajman and work in Dubai. Isn't that pretty much what happens in all major cities in the world? Live in suburbs and work in the city.


----------



## V Kapoor

So there are divergent views on what is off-plan. Before construction or before completion......


----------



## docc

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ IC and DG if they want to stay in Dubai.


There's only so many number of people IC and DG can accomodate. Besides, who's gonna pay 100k for a 1 BR place in DG when they can pay half that price in Sharjah and one-third that price in Ajman!


----------



## docc

V Kapoor said:


> So there are divergent views on what is off-plan. Before construction or before completion......


Before completion property is called under construction and before construction property is called off-plan. Seems logical right?


----------



## IISinbadII

docc said:


> There's only so many number of people IC and DG can accomodate. Besides, who's gonna pay 100k for a 1 BR place in DG when they can pay half that price in Sharjah and one-third that price in Ajman!


IC and DG combined could accommodate up to 45,000 families, eventually.


----------



## docc

IISinbadII said:


> IC and DG combined could accommodate up to 45,000 families, eventually.


True. This number isn't enough for all those who vacate the villa's and I'm quite sure that more than twice that number is actually required.


----------



## V Kapoor

And then there is SATWA being razed.....more oustees...

There has actually been a sharp increase in rentals of Studios and one-beds in Int'l City in the last 2-3 months. Studios could be rented at 36 to 40K a year back in IC and now the demanded rentals are between 60 and 65K. Maybe as a result of the villa evictions and Satwa action. Though drive against sharing of villas is quite recent I guess.


----------



## Monument

malec said:


> ^^ One day they're going to wake up and see that all the low income earners will have disappeared and there'll be nobody to work in the shop, nobody to collect your trash, nobody to drive the taxis and buses, etc.


Name a city where that has happenned? - and there are many more expensive cities than Dubai.


----------



## Philippa C

docc said:


> Why? Low income earners can live in Sharjah, Ajman and work in Dubai. Isn't that pretty much what happens in all major cities in the world? Live in suburbs and work in the city.



Sponsors/employers are going to have to provide accommodation and transport as part of the package for low income earners. The guys who do our garden are all housed in Ajman by the company and brought in to work by company bus.


----------



## mackie1964

Average Psqft for apartment has gone down by approx 5 to 6%. It's not summer, Ramadan & holidays are over  

Is this the sign of things to come here?

http://www.alineah.com/dubai-realestate-analysis/DubaiMarina/apartment/147/detail.asp


----------



## first timer

mackie1964 said:


> Average Psqft for apartment has gone down by approx 5 to 6%. It's not summer, Ramadan & holidays are over
> 
> Is this the sign of things to come here?
> 
> http://www.alineah.com/dubai-realestate-analysis/DubaiMarina/apartment/147/detail.asp


^^
Prices will fall and fall and fall for the next 3 years in my opinion
Gone are the days of a quick buck and wont been seen again in Dubai


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Mackie, I last recorded that on October 19th the average Dubai Marina price was AED 1987 psf and now Oct 26th it is AED 1975 psf. So no real change in the last week.


----------



## mackie1964

Cheers Steve :cheers:


----------



## first timer

whats on estate agents web sites and what prices apartments are really sold at are two very different things

they going down and next year your really see what they worth

Its only money:lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Talking down the market for personal gain is not allowed here.


----------



## IISinbadII

first timer said:


> they going down and next year your really see what they worth
> 
> Its only money:lol:


^^ and what will they be worth in 10 years time?


----------



## first timer

small change

just wait till they finish building the place and dont need western money, then your see what taxes will be implied on foreign investors


----------



## first timer

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Talking down the market for personal gain is not allowed here.


No personal gain, how do you work that one out

I have an opinion like everyone else that posts on this site and plenty of others

In life, what goes round comes round, mackie what do you say, you a nice person who never posts nasty posts on other forums are you not?


----------



## nisha

The article in Meed is spot on....

They can announce the launch of any number of properties......so what - means nothing if they haven't got the financial wherewithal to actually go ahead with it.

I really wish I was just a naysayer.....and this is one of those times I wish I was wrong - but the evidence is simply overwhelming...the mother of all bubbles is finally bursting......


----------



## IISinbadII

....


----------



## first timer

nisha said:


> The article in Meed is spot on....
> 
> They can announce the launch of any number of properties......so what - means nothing if they haven't got the financial wherewithal to actually go ahead with it.
> 
> Incidentally, Nakheel sukuks (dev bond 2 maturing on Jan 16, 2011) were yielding 24% a couple of days back (and their 5 year credit default swaps werequoting at 1800/2000 bps) Go figure that....
> 
> I really wish I was just a naysayer.....and this is one of those times I wish I was wrong - but the evidence is simply overwhelming...the mother of all bubbles is finally bursting......


not bursting its burst

Its ok if you brought 5 years ago then your still a winner but those who paid the inplated prices in the last 2 years, well I feel for them
BUT greed always catches up on people in the long run:lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Property sales in Dubai and Abu Dhabi have stalled and resale prices have dropped for the first time due to the global financial crisis, according to real estate professionals.

Off-plan sales have been the hardest hit as speculators struggle to meet instalment plans due to difficulties finding finance. But they are finding it hard to sell on their properties because potential buyers are also finding it more difficult to secure loans.

'It has been going on for a week now. I have seen prices going down about 10% everywhere, even in Dubai Marina and Downtown Burj Dubai,' said Khaled Elqassim, the sales manager at Dubai-based property broker AAA.

'Pretty much all the secondary market is trading at less than it was before the financial crisis,' said Karen Lay, the marketing manager at LLJ Properties in Abu Dhabi.

The situation is hardest for speculators who secured finance only for one or two instalments, sometimes through personal loans, hoping to sell at a profit. They are now dropping their asking prices.

'If they can't afford the next payment and can't sell the property they invested in, they might find themselves in trouble,' said Walter Hart, the managing director of Humberts International.

Many property professionals had expected prices to rise substantially after Cityscape Dubai, the world's largest real estate investment and development event, at the beginning of the month, but instead many agents' telephones have gone unusually quiet.

'Nobody is interested in off-plan any more. Our phones are quiet most of the time. We haven't felt the Cityscape effect,' added Mr Elqassim.

Usually agents sell around 12 units a month but some are barely managing to sell 10 or 12 at present. Developers offering new properties directly to investors have not yet reduced their prices but some believe it is bound to happen soon as prices on re-sales fall.

Prices in Dubai are falling in many different areas including Downtown Burj Dubai, plus some projects in Dubailand and Al Furjan. In Abu Dhabi prices are going down Building Material City and the Al Reef development.

But overall Dubai is still regarded as an attractive place. 'People who are coming here for new opportunities all need to live somewhere,' said Vincent Easton, the head of sales at Sherwoods.

Andrew Covill, the head of sales at Abu Dhabi-based LLJ Properties, said some people are not really informed of the situation and think they need to sell. *'Now is not a time to sell, it's a time to invest for the future*. There are fantastic deals out there. There is more choice for the buyers,' he explained.

http://www.propertywire.com/news/mi...ces-falling-dubai-abu-dhabi-200810261920.html


----------



## first timer

Steve

That post your trying to refer to is a completly different situation

My opinion on this forum is valid and honest and we all in the same boat so dont try that one

Just because someone does not agree with your opinion does not make them wrong

I appreciate the truth is hurtful but its a fact

Peoples greed in life often takes over, all I can say is that you have not even seen a taste of what is to come, just wait for the taxes

Its only my opinion but mackie will tell you im not often wrong


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ What taxes are you expecting and when?


----------



## nisha

first timer said:


> not bursting its burst
> 
> Its ok if you brought 5 years ago then your still a winner but those who paid the inplated prices in the last 2 years, well I feel for them
> BUT greed always catches up on people in the long run:lol:


I will use the past tense after the market finds a bottom. Right now it is near frozen...


----------



## mackie1964

I am buying at present as well as selling so I am in for the long term here:cheers:

The best move I have ever done was to dump the Wind and get Timeplace with the money. All my postings on the Wind were based on many years of experience in the industry and I was proven right, up to date 

Same with the UK, US and Emerging financial Markets, its time to buy.............. That's what I am doing anyway. :cheers:


----------



## first timer

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ What taxes are you expecting and when?


I suspect once they built the country with foreign money then capital gains will be introduced as well as VAT

dont forget why the property boom was iniciated = no oil

someone has to pay for the life style of the lcoal residents and benefits they receiv for being an dubian

just an opinion


----------



## nisha

Dubai_Steve said:


> Andrew Covill, the head of sales at Abu Dhabi-based LLJ Properties, said some people are not really informed of the situation and think they need to sell. *'Now is not a time to sell, it's a time to invest for the future*. There are fantastic deals out there. There is more choice for the buyers,' he explained.


Yeah, right...:lol:


----------



## first timer

mackie1964 said:


> I am buying at present as well as selling so I am in for the long term here:cheers:
> 
> The best move I have ever done was to dump the Wind and get Timeplace with the money. All my postings on the Wind were based on many years of experience in the industry and I was proven right, up to date


who is taliking about jlt = no one

however some people in jlt bought 5 - 6 years ago and there development is next to metro, what a result and problem towers now doing ok and in 3 years will be complete, enough time for market to settle down. BUT with what been paid they cant loose.

the developments within jlt are doing as well as exspected for dubai -= delays

if a dubai company tells you 2 years you simply times it by 3 thats simple maths here in dubai

strange person talking about jlt


----------



## Dubai_Steve

You have to realize that the price drops will mostly be only those who speculated recently on over priced off-plan from Emaar etc. and can not afford to hold for the long term. Those who bought a few years back will want to hold as rent is very high and so is rental yield.

Rental yields of 12% are currenlty possible in Dubai, an investors dream - I do not see rents dropping very much as demand for living in units is high and mortgages difficult to come by.

The property cycle in Dubai has not completed its first cycle yet instead there is a temporary blip because of global confidence and a small market correction on recent overpriced off-plan. Rental yield controls investment.


----------



## first timer

agree BUT
how long are people going to be wanting to stay in Dubai for business

as said wait for the taxes, i estimate within 3 years some big changes coming

at the moment you buy several apartments and get a bentley free, soon it will be buy one and get two free

ONLY MY OPINION
Mackie what do you say, your the exspert in these kinda problems


----------



## docc

first timer said:


> ^^
> Prices will fall and fall and fall for the next 3 years in my opinion
> Gone are the days of a quick buck and wont been seen again in Dubai


Interesting opinion. I would definitely like to hear what on what basis you are opining.

Why do you feel that prices will "fall and fall and fall" for the next 3 years? I'd specifically like to hear in detail about how you came to this conclusion. Oh, and i definitely agree about the days of flipping being over and i for one am THANKFUL about it.

Next, why do you think that business would not want to operate anymore in Dubai? I'm just DYING to listen to your reasoning on this one. I hope you're not going to respond with your "taxes" argument because that isn't a good enough reason AT ALL.

So yea, please enlighten me....infact enlighten all of us.

Stay tuned everyone, this debate is going to get interesting.


----------



## Wannaberich

Regards low income workers.The goverment should build something along the lines of IC
and rent it only to low income workers.The rent should be fixed at something like 40.000 for a 2 bed appartment.To qualify for one of the units you need to prove you have a low income.
Without proper transport to places like Sharjah,its difficult for workers to come back and forth.Again,maybe the goverment could provide a fleet of cheap/free buses to and from central collection/pick-up points at these places.


----------



## first timer

I tell you what docc, im not going to upset you guys by expressing how much further they going to drop

Lets have this debate in say 3 months then 6 months and finally 12 months and it will all come clearer

As I only have an opinion and always better to demonstrate facts, I know there is evidence if this discussed earier


----------



## first timer

*agreed*



Wannaberich said:


> Regards low income workers.The goverment should build something along the lines of IC
> and rent it only to low income workers.The rent should be fixed at something like 40.000 for a 2 bed appartment.To qualify for one of the units you need to prove you have a low income.
> Without proper transport to places like Sharjah,its difficult for workers to come back and forth.Again,maybe the goverment could provide a fleet of cheap/free buses to and from central collection/pick-up points at these places.


I do think however you need to revist your user name as its not going to happen for some time im afraid

good luck my friend


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> Next, why do you think that business would not want to operate anymore in Dubai?


My letting agent told me today 700 businesses per month are now applying for visas.


----------



## Wannaberich

first timer said:


> I do think however you need to revist your user name as its not going to happen for some time im afraid
> 
> good luck my friend


I do think however if you don't have something constructive to say then say nothing my friend.


----------



## first timer

*agreed*

what people tell you and what is and will happen are two very different things

they need to keep the truth from you

do they tell you all the benefits that the locals get and how much more we pay?

wake up my friend

Its only my opinion


----------



## docc

first timer said:


> I tell you what docc, im not going to upset you guys by expressing how much further they going to drop
> 
> Lets have this debate in say 3 months then 6 months and finally 12 months and it will all come clearer
> 
> As I only have an opinion and always better to demonstrate facts, I know there is evidence if this discussed earier


I think you misunderstood. No one is upset here; infact we encourage a healthy debate as it brings more clarity to the general attitude towards the market. You don't have to agree with what i say and i don't have to agree with what you say; its just that simple.

I am very keen to hear why you said what you did. Maybe there's something you know that we all don't know. So go ahead, enlighten us .


----------



## docc

First things first.

Let's please avoid name calling and mud slinging as we don't want this thread to be closed down. Let's all be civil and debate this in a sensible manner please.

Thank you.


----------



## first timer

*Docc*



docc said:


> First things first.
> 
> Let's please avoid name calling and mud slinging as we don't want this thread to be closed down. Let's all be civil and debate this in a sensible manner please.
> 
> Thank you.


thanks for reminding people how to behave
some people do throw there toys out of their prams when they dont like whats being heard

docc as for the tax situation this is purley my opinion and common sense to how Dubai can substain income and give free wealth (houses and money) to locals


----------



## docc

first timer said:


> what people tell you and what is and will happen are two very different things
> 
> they need to keep the truth from you
> 
> do they tell you all the *benefits that the locals get* and how much more we pay?
> 
> wake up my friend
> 
> Its only my opinion


Are you serious? Are you going to base your arguments on this fact?

Its only obvious that the local's benefit; they have every right to do so. They let us use their land and be a part of their country and allow us to prosper from it. They didn't call us here; we came out of our own free will! You expect them not to benefit? Infact, i don't think they benefit enough; only a small portion of the rich are benefiting while the rest of them are just like everyone else. Heck, many of them are being asked to vacate their house so skyscrapers and master planned communities could be built to house US!!!

Very very very ill informed statement my friend. Ok, what do you have next?


----------



## mackie1964

Ok, let us just leave it at that. :cheers:


----------



## malec

docc said:


> First things first.
> 
> Let's please avoid name calling and mud slinging as we don't want this thread to be closed down. Let's all be civil and debate this in a sensible manner please.
> 
> Thank you.


^^ :cheers:


----------



## mackie1964

@ Malec;

A bit selective as usual, try talking to Altin about this maybe :dunno:


----------



## docc

first timer said:


> thanks for reminding people how to behavour
> some people do throw there toys out of their prams when they dont like whats being heard
> 
> docc as for the tax situation this is purley my opinion and common sense to how Dubai can substain income and give free wealth (houses and money) to locals


Again, it is their NATIONAL right to benefit from the Govt. If they didn't do so, there wouldn't be a monarchy and democracy would prevail creating the kind of political and bureaucratic bullshit that we have to face in our own democratic countries.

Also, what is wrong if the Govt. were to tax us? It has been propositioned before that an income tax of 1.5% will be levied at some point of time in the future. Isn't this better than the 30-50% taxes levied in other countries? Wouldn't YOU want to pay less taxes?


----------



## first timer

docc said:


> Are you serious? Are you going to base your arguments on this fact?
> 
> Its only obvious that the local's benefit; they have every right to do so. They let us use their land and be a part of their country and allow us to prosper from it. They didn't call us here; we came out of our own free will! You expect them not to benefit? Infact, i don't think they benefit enough; only a small portion of the rich are benefiting while the rest of them are just like everyone else. Heck, many of them are being asked to vacate their house so skyscrapers and master planned communities could be built to house US!!!
> 
> Very very very ill informed statement my friend. Ok, what do you have next?


I dont think in this country we get a FREE house and a gift for every time we have children and get married and pay fdifferent prices to foreigners?
Yes we give council houses away and benefits away to foreigners but in DUBAI they dont give anything away, WE PAY FOR EVERYTHING

The previous countries wealth is dissappearing with limited oil so it is my prediction we will have to pay taxes to keep there wealth.

You and many wont agree and its something you dont want to hear but you will remember what I say and please remind yourselves in 2-3 years this opinion

By the way I have never suggested that I have a problem paying taxes but this is the attraction of buying, living and working in Dubai.
PLEASE prove me wrong in 2-3 years time


----------



## docc

first timer said:


> I dont think in this country we get a FREE house and a gift for every time we have children and get married and pay fdifferent prices to foreigners?
> Yes we give council houses away and benefits away to foreigners but in DUBAI they dont give anything away, WE PAY FOR EVERYTHING
> 
> The previous countries wealth is dissappearing with limited oil so it is my prediction we will have to pay taxes to keep there wealth.
> 
> You and many wont agree and its something you dont want to hear but you will remember what I say and please remind yourselves in 2-3 years this opinion


Ok, it must be me because your post didn't make much sense. I really should have stayed in school longer.

Can you please re-read your post and post in a manner that is comprehensible to everyone. I have no idea what you're trying to say about "free gifts" and "council houses" and "paying for everything".

Please don't think that I or any forum member here is trying to attack you. We'd all just like to share our opinions and have an very educated debate about it; thats it.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai is making a lot of money from "services". That should be enough to keep providing benefits for the locals.


----------



## first timer

*Its only an opinion*

I know docc you suggested a healthy debate is welcomed

BUT you will see that some moderators do not like opinions that they dont want to face and I will soon be suspended or banned

Thank god I am never rude or personal, I simply have an opinion
:lol:


----------



## porshe911

baba toto , but the good news the price jump to 1300 /psqf


----------



## first timer

*Have to agree to disagree*



IISinbadII said:


> Dubai is making a lot of money from "services". That should be enough to keep providing benefits for the locals.


Large foreign hotel chains and shops will not benefit the state as do not pay taxes

Yes theygive discounts to the locals which we have to pay for


----------



## docc

first timer said:


> I know docc you suggested a healthy debate is welcomed
> 
> BUT you will see that some moderators do not like opinions that they dont want to face and I will soon be suspended or banned
> 
> Thank god I am never rude or personal, I simply have an opinion
> :lol:


I'm sorry, but i will have to respectfully disagree. None of the moderators here are going to ban you for expressing your opinions. Yes, you will get banned for being rude, personal attacks and trolling. I don't think you're doing any of these, so no reason for you to get banned


----------



## docc

first timer said:


> Never said nothing wrong with it
> 
> I just wish my government gave me a house and car and loads of cash when I got married and had children, not forgetting the discounts I get from shops etc
> 
> and give nothing to the people that are building the place
> 
> instead the uk government just give it to the wrong people who do nothing for the country
> 
> ITS ONLY MY OPINION:lol:


Wow. I'm speechless. Ok, but i still have to respond.

You're upset with the local Govt. because they take care of their citizens? So you're basically jealous of the fact that you're not getting any freebies.

Do you know what the emirati population of the UAE is? 834,000. I'm sorry, but i'm beginning to lose respect for this debate as you haven't till responded with a single factual or sensible response in all of your posts. I feel bad as i am partly responsible for encouraging you to debate this and basically wasting everyone's time and site bandwidth.

A friendly piece of advice. If you have something to say, try to back it up with some reasoning and implicitly express it when in a debate, otherwise there's no sense participating in one.

Good luck with everything.


----------



## 234sale

Land Prices are going down...
Construction cost has decreased...

But new building practices are going to ensure every building is green.

No single tower master development is completed,, 

In some respects, Dubai hasn’t even started yet.

p.S http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=93191


----------



## mackie1964

Wannaberich said:


> Gee thanks.It was my 900th post so I didn't want it to be crap like my previous 899


:lol::lol:

Will have to do until Naz is back :lol::banana:


----------



## docc

first timer said:


> END OF
> 
> im off
> 
> I sense people getting up set with *facts*


Haven't seen a single one till now, fact that is.

Anyone else seen anything? Can someone direct me to a post of his that actually had any so called "facts" in it? I'd really appreciate that.


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> Gee thanks.It was my 900th post so I didn't want it to be crap like my previous 899


:lol:

Thanks, i needed the laugh!


----------



## Richard Head

docc said:


> Wow. I'm speechless. Ok, but i still have to respond.
> 
> You're upset with the local Govt. because they take care of their citizens? So you're basically jealous of the fact that you're not getting any freebies.
> 
> Do you know what the emirati population of the UAE is? 834,000. I'm sorry, but i'm beginning to lose respect for this debate as you haven't till responded with a single factual or sensible response in all of your posts. I feel bad as i am partly responsible for encouraging you to debate this and basically wasting everyone's time and site bandwidth.
> 
> A friendly piece of advice. If you have something to say, try to back it up with some reasoning and implicitly express it when in a debate, otherwise there's no sense participating in one.
> 
> Good luck with everything.



Yeah Docc, quit tapping the glass will ya........


----------



## docc

Richard Head said:


> Yeah Docc, quit tapping the glass will ya........


:lol:

If i was in elementary school, i would have said, "he started it"!!! :lol:

Seriously though, it would have been an interesting debate if he was able to back up any of its statements. I hope we didn't scare him away; poor guy will get the impression that we (me) are tyrants!

First timer, we didn't mean to scare you away. Apologies if you were offended about anything we said.


----------



## Richard Head

fair enough


----------



## docc

Richard Head said:


> ^^ I have an opinion, and i AM going to share it with everyone. It is based on no facts, no logical thought process, no analysis, no data, but you guys are welcome to benefit from it.
> 
> So errrr..............................did you win your opinion in a lottery, first timer?
> 
> Don't worry Docc, my dad's bigger than his Dad.


:lol:

ROFL!!!!

:cheers:


----------



## Wannaberich

first timer said:


> I just wish my government gave me a house and car and loads of cash when I got married and had children, not forgetting the discounts I get from shops etc
> :


Just come to England and claim asylum.Your'll get all that and more.
Then if you have a daughter 16 or over,tell her to have a kid and she'll get the same.
If you have a son of working age,tell him to fake a back problem and he can claim disabilty.
Emiratis think they got it good?Nah,rubbish!


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> Just come to England and claim asylum.Your'll get all that and more.
> Then if you have a daughter 16 or over,tell her to have a kid and she'll get the same.
> If you have a son of working age,tell him to fake a back problem and he can claim disabilty.
> Emiratis think they got it good?Nah,rubbish!


BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Nicely done.


----------



## plotman

mackie1964 said:


> Please someone points me to these deals, I have some AEDs ready to go, good location.........show me the deal, I will show you the money. It is all talk at the moment :cheers:
> 
> I made an offer to someone today from the GNADS and they turn it down flat, they would have made 180% on the LLP within the Torch, they still would not sell.


Ok try this then,SP have torch appt 1501,958sq/ft at 1.2m aed all in.They also confirmed they have bought in up to 15 torch appt at 1100aed/sq/ft and will resell in better times.


----------



## mackie1964

plotman said:


> Ok try this then,SP have torch appt 1501,958sq/ft at 1.2m aed all in.They also confirmed they have bought in up to 15 torch appt at 1100aed/sq/ft and will resell in better times.


I will give them a call. Last time I talked to them it was AED1,400/sqft and none on LLP (only a couple of weeks ago):cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

What's with all this negative speculation, there's an old French saying, say a lie three times, and it's already half true. I have a feeling that's what some people are trying to achieve here, as if they have an agenda.

Well here's a clip from Market Place Middle East on CNN claiming that the middle east's economy's will ride out the world's economic crissis much better than alot of other place's.

Let's try to keep it positive. 

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2008/10/23/mme.a.struggle.for.kirkuk.cnn


----------



## Wannaberich

One thing that isnt suffering is rent prices.I've got a unit rented for 75.000 in June.Now I'm told I could get 95.000(thankfully tenants may be moving out soon)
Al Reem 3 at ARanches were going for 260-300 3 weeks ago.Now I've seen them up to 320.
So not all news is bad news.


----------



## baba toto

porshe911 said:


> baba toto , but the good news the price jump to 1300 /psqf


Is that for both, Triangle & Circle?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I have heard there are a lot of americans coming to Dubai now to find work. They are also buying up property and do not have the problem of the dollar/pound exchange rate. Also we have 400,000 middle class Chinese comming to Dubai soon.


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> One thing that isnt suffering is rent prices.I've got a unit rented for 75.000 in June.Now I'm told I could get 95.000(thankfully tenants may be moving out soon)
> Al Reem 3 at ARanches were going for 260-300 3 weeks ago.Now I've seen them up to 320.
> So not all news is bad news.


Bloody Hell, my Saheel with a massive 11,000 sq ft plot is still rented at 190 thanks to the cap, must be 400 now if Al reems are 320. Sickening.


----------



## porshe911

baba toto said:


> Is that for both, Triangle & Circle?


both


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Even a 1 bed in the marina now goes for 150! When can you renew your rental rate?


----------



## docc

^^ I was under the assumption that despite the rent cap, the landlord is allowed to adjust the rent to bring it in line with the rest of the market. Doesn't make sense if one unit in a floor is being rented for 100k while the one right next to it is being rented for 150k!


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> ^^ Well, if people are willing to pay 250k for a 2 BR apartment at the Marina, its only fair that they pay 320k for a villa with a nice big backyard in a prestigious community!


I know what your saying but 320 is £50.000!The rents I see just blow my mind.£65.000 for a 3bed Miradoor! How long can these rents last?!So you pay,perhaps £80/90.000 for Al Reem 3 on launch,maybe 4/5 years ago,and today you rent it for over half of what you paid!errrr,mindblowing.


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> ^^ I was under the assumption that despite the rent cap, the landlord is allowed to adjust the rent to bring it in line with the rest of the market. Doesn't make sense if one unit in a floor is being rented for 100k while the one right next to it is being rented for 150k!


Actually,I think its 7% after the first year.After the second I believe you can evict.


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> I know what your saying but 320 is £50.000!The rents I see just blow my mind.£65.000 for a 3bed Miradoor! How long can these rents last?!So you pay,perhaps £80/90.000 for Al Reem 3 on launch,maybe 4/5 years ago,and today you rent it for over half of what you paid!errrr,mindblowing.


The OP on Al Reem's were around 1.7 - 3 M right?


----------



## mackie1964

Wannaberich said:


> Actually,I think its 7% after the first year.After the second I believe you can evict.


5% after the second year I was told recently, no increase after the first year :dunno:

I will dig out some of the emails from agents and post them :cheers:


----------



## ElenaVasiliu

Back in April bought a 1 b/r in Marina for personal use. Apt. purchased rented till jan 2009 at 75k . When informing the tenant about us wanting to move in upon expiry of the lease they refused and filed a case with the rent comitee. They were granted another year with only 5% rental increase. I find this insane!


----------



## docc

^^ So you can't move in even if you want to? What the heck? That's just plain stupid!


----------



## Mavekris

^^Sorry but are you guy's not bored?

Wannberich your 900th post was the best from you.

Dubai said no residency visa approx 4 months back,ajman sold good number of projects luring everyone with residency visa.
Now they realised that they have made enough money so smartly backing out from residency visa.

At the end of the day its business


----------



## mackie1964

I am sure you can, only if you can show them for sure that you will move in yourself :dunno:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

mackie1964 said:


> 5% after the second year I was told recently, no increase after the first year :dunno:
> 
> I will dig out some of the emails from agents and post them :cheers:


Yes Mackie - 24 months with the same rent and the third year you can increase with 5 %. My experience is that after the first year the tennant move because he/she are going somewhere else - so in reality the cap seldom comes into effect


----------



## mackie1964

Cheers Morten, take one beer of the many you owe me :lol::banana:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

mackie1964 said:


> I am sure you can, only if you can show them for sure that you will move in yourself :dunno:


I have investigated this quite intensively - yes, if you can prove you are moving in the tennant can not stay - but then you need to show residency permits, work permits etc - using the apartment only for holidays is not enough


----------



## mackie1964

Morten_Denmark said:


> I have investigated this quite intensively - yes, if you can prove you are moving in the tennant can not stay - but then you need to show residency permits, work permits etc - using the apartment only for holidays is not enough


Here goes another beer............Stop it :lol::cheers:


----------



## baba toto

Any idea how much retail units will be?


----------



## ElenaVasiliu

Morten_Denmark said:


> I have investigated this quite intensively - yes, if you can prove you are moving in the tennant can not stay - but then you need to show residency permits, work permits etc - using the apartment only for holidays is not enough


I can assure you we did show proof. That is the only house we own here and we are paying 175 k rent ourselves. The Comitee is very much on the tenant's side and would use any letter of the law to support him. In our case was a 88 days eviction notice instead of 90, and that's because the tenant was smart enough to make himself unavailable to the courrier for a couple of days. 2 days late with the notice and they've got a 3rd year in a blink.


----------



## Richard Head

docc said:


> The OP on Al Reem's were around 1.7 - 3 M right?


If you mean very early off plan prices, you're not even in the ballpark. 450k - 800k


----------



## AltinD

Not letting the owner use their own home is certainly unfair, but charging 50 - 100% more overnight is way unfairer then that.

How many owners like Elena here have got this problem? How many end users have been faced with exuberant rent increases like the figures I posted above? Hundreds if not thousands times more.

Any sane-minded individual can clearly see where the priorities are (and should be).


----------



## Morten_Denmark

ElenaVasiliu said:


> I can assure you we did show proof. That is the only house we own here and we are paying 175 k rent ourselves. The Comitee is very much on the tenant's side and would use any letter of the law to support him. In our case was a 88 days eviction notice instead of 90, and that's because the tenant was smart enough to make himself unavailable to the courrier for a couple of days. 2 days late with the notice and they've got a 3rd year in a blink.


I am sorry as it sounds very unfair for you - but if you succeded giving him the notice you would in theroy be able to move in - this is also what I heard. I did not take into account a "smart" tennant..


----------



## AltinD

Oh, and I don't buy the "argument" that some "innocent" owners are not renting their apartment because they are afraid they will be stuck with the same tenant for at least two years.

Innocent ... Nay, greedy YES!


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> The OP on Al Reem's were around 1.7 - 3 M right?


Don't know.My fiance paid £110.000 on a re-sale around 3.5 years ago so I'm only guessing OP was 80/90.


----------



## docc

^^ Isn't that exactly the way it is right now? No rent increase after 1st year, then a 5% increase after the second year and possible rent review and new price after 3rd year.


----------



## first timer

wait another six months and it will be buy one and get one free
lol

Only a laugh


----------



## first timer

docc said:


> Imre, you beat me to it! I'd be interested too if that's the price! Already sent him a pm  If not me, i definitely know a few people who'd pony up the cash INSTANTLY!
> 
> Need to talk to my agents and check why they aren't getting me such rock bottom deals although they are doing a fairly good job and offering me some really good deals.


I suspect that some agents keep the best deals for themselves or there punters who give them brown envelopes so these type of deals dont reach the market but they soon will as there will be toooooooooooooooooooooooooo many of them (this gtoes on everywhere in the world)

Be patient and you get that bargain your see

This is only my opinion of course


----------



## docc

delete


----------



## docc

first timer said:


> wait another six months and it will be buy one and get one free
> lol:lol:


^^ I'm sorry to say this but now you're just trolling. That can potentially lead to a a ban, so i would advise you to comment sensibly.


----------



## jixline

docc said:


> ^^ Isn't that exactly the way it is right now? No rent increase after 1st year, then a 5% increase after the second year and possible rent review and new price after 3rd year.


I was referring to Richard Head post. it is unfair for him to have it way below market rates, but again gov shouldn't allow rates to float freely. last couple of years has witnessed crazy numbers. and with the new DM campaign? definitly the time to keep the caps


----------



## docc

^^ I agree. His 3 years tenancy contract will be fulfilled next year, so i'm sure that he can demand for the new increased rent. He has fulfilled his part of the obligation (imposed by RERA), so there really isn't a reason why he can't ask for market rate.


----------



## IISinbadII

docc said:


> ^^ I'm sorry to say this but now you're just trolling. That can potentially lead to a a ban, so i would advise you to comment sensibly.


Its not too bad to have views at the other extreme too. After all we had many who believed there would never be a correction. The fact is that property has cycles.....ups and downs. Its the nature of the beast! But in the long run, property does appreciate.....esp. at good locations.


----------



## docc

Sure, no harm in having extreme views. My reference to him was based on his past (yesterday's to be specific) activity as well and not just that one post.

Sure, property has cycles and there are times when things hit rock bottom. We all have to be able to accept it as thats just how things are, but when someone comes and says "Buy one, get one free", that's definitely suspicious.


----------



## first timer

error


----------



## docc

^^ FYI This is what he posted:

"wait another six months and it will be buy one and get one free
lol

Only a laugh"


----------



## first timer

IISinbadII said:


> Its not too bad to have views at the other extreme too. After all we had many who believed there would never be a correction. The fact is that property has cycles.....ups and downs. Its the nature of the beast! But in the long run, property does appreciate.....esp. at good locations.


Thanks for that
BUT too many people dont want there fantasy to burst and when more and more evidence is presented by other members they go on the attack

Your see they will soon suspend or ban me for my views even though I have never been rude or offensive to them

Watch my name and your see very soon

The truth hurts and time will soon show I am talking sense

BUT prices drop and prices rise but no more quick money making deals in Dubai


----------



## 234sale

Just been to Land Department

Looks like soon 1% seller and 1% buyer fee will be introduced for uncompleted property.


----------



## first timer

234sale said:


> Just been to Land Department
> 
> Looks like soon 1% seller and 1% buyer fee will be introduced for uncompleted property.


Thats will be good for both sides and will allow some more protection
The system needs to be sorted as so behind but slowly getting there


----------



## mackie1964

HarryKane said:


> How about AED2100/sqft at The Lofts BD? Or AED5050/sqft at the tall tower itself? Or, how about 0% premium at Princess Tower with full sea view? Is that a good enough deal for you? You wouldn't be able to find those prices a few weeks ago and that's just the tip of the iceberg. And I'm talking about genuine sellers here; not talk.


Very interested in the Princess one, please let me have the details :cheers:


----------



## first timer

*Thanks Moderator*

Thanks moderator for cleaning up the forum and deleting my posts


----------



## jixline

^^ they are called Moderator 

i dont think anyone was atackin you ( unless i missed some deleted posts), but the point is that does your posts and your outlook of the market derive from some facts you know ( that we might know or not) or based on guts feelings?

i dont think anyone holds the definite truth, otherwise there will be no loosers in the markets but again when we put more than one opinion together you get a broader image


concerning the new 2% from LD, that will hit hard since most dev still charge their transfer fee, so that might push the market down further ( although the law13 say dev should only take the administrative fees)


----------



## first timer

^^
lets move on from that subject
its upsetting too many people 

Time will tell and we can come back to this discussion in 6 months

Oh and yes you have missed some inappropiate posts thats why they been deleted

Have a good day just dont read the press


----------



## jixline

why move? it is an investment thread 

actually i have also a gloomy view of the market, but anyway these times are really interesting, in dubai and in the world wat is happening is major and it is changing on a daily basis, so it exiting to watch the changes 

btw did anyone watch "Zeitgeist" ?


----------



## first timer

jixline said:


> why move? it is an investment thread
> 
> actually i have also a gloomy view of the market, but anyway these times are really interesting, in dubai and in the world wat is happening is major and it is changing on a daily basis, so it exiting to watch the changes
> 
> btw did anyone watch "Zeitgeist" ?


be careful your be attacked
they think its all roses still and untouchable
really sad when they finally realise but I think they do know but just cant accept it

Its not the end of the world just cash in long term say 5-10years
but watch the taxes then


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ first timer, let me ask you this:

-Are businesses open in Dubai or have they closed?
-Are new companies moving to Dubai or have they stopped?
-Are mega projects going ahead as planned, yes or no?
-Is Dubai infrastructure been built, or no?
-Are people moving to Dubai (for whatever reason), yes or no?
-Are families who were sharing villas, been moved out or not?
-Do all these people need housing or no?
-Is there shortage of completed property, yes or no?

If you say that businesses are open, new companies coming, development underway, mega projects as planned, people making Dubai their home, new laws causing existing residents to seek housing and there is a shortage and high demand for units......why worry?


----------



## AltinD

Dubai_Steve said:


> rentals should be on a 6 months contract as in the UK. After 6 months you can offer another 6 months or give them 2 months notice to leave. If you increase the price beyond the market rate the tennant simply moves somewhere else. If the tenant wants something more stable then they should buy not rent. The owner should have the right to sell his property with adequate notice.
> 
> I have the same tenants in a property of mine who have lived there for several years, they renew every 6 months I usually only put up rent according to inflation


Steve, don't compare the U.K. with the U.A.E. please. There are some fondamental demographic differences between the two countries, plus the market conditions are different.


----------



## 234sale

jixline said:


> ^^ they are called Moderator
> 
> concerning the new 2% from LD, that will hit hard since most dev still charge their transfer fee, so that might push the market down further ( although the law13 say dev should only take the administrative fees)



From what I was told this 1% Buyer / 1% seller is paid to Lands Department. This fee was here before, taken by developers as profit, cancelled for a bit,, now back as a goverment fee. Tax I suppose...


----------



## jagmp

my contract with the tanent is for 1 yr.it also mentions if the tanent wants to renew the contract he must give 2 months notice.and it is at the discretion of landlord to renew it.does that mean i can refuse to renew it.or i can charge higher rent in line with the existing market if he wants to continue living there.

can somebody throw light?

thanks in advance.:bash:


----------



## Morten_Denmark

jagmp said:


> my contract with the tanent is for 1 yr.it also mentions if the tanent wants to renew the contract he must give 2 months notice.and it is at the discretion of landlord to renew it.does that mean i can refuse to renew it.or i can charge higher rent in line with the existing market if he wants to continue living there.
> 
> can somebody throw light?
> 
> thanks in advance.:bash:


I doesnt matter what your contract says - it is three years for the tennant and you can only increase 5% after two years - that is 24 months with the same rent - hereafter +5%. Fourth year you are free to do what you want.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

234sale said:


> From what I was told this 1% Buyer / 1% seller is paid to Lands Department. This fee was here before, taken by developers as profit, cancelled for a bit,, now back as a goverment fee. Tax I suppose...



Hi Sale

If I bought an offplan apartment 6 months ago for 2 mill AED - what impact does this have on me ? Will I have to pay 20.000 AED to the land department (1%) ? Or is it only from now ?


----------



## jagmp

Morten_Denmark said:


> I doesnt matter what your contract says - it is three years for the tennant and you can only increase 5% after two years - that is 24 months with the same rent - hereafter +5%. Fourth year you are free to do what you want.


so contract does not mean anything? :nuts::lol::bash:


----------



## jixline

Morten_Denmark said:


> Hi Sale
> 
> If I bought an offplan apartment 6 months ago for 2 mill AED - what impact does this have on me ? Will I have to pay 20.000 AED to the land department (1%) ? Or is it only from now ?


it is when u want to sell most probably.

@234Sales that used to be the transfer fee charged by developers, but they ( dev) should waive it since LD are taking it. but try to call any developer... they still charge transfer so u will end up paying 3 % ( or the new buyer ).

the new law (13) states that Developers can only take admin fees, but heyy it is dubai :cheers:


----------



## docc

Ok, so someone correct me if i'm wrong.

The transfer fee charged by the developer has now been discontinued and replaced by a land department fee which is to be borne 1% by seller and 1% by developer. Is that correct?

If it isn't, then it means that buyer pays the 2% transfer fee to the developer and an additional 1% to the land department (total 3%). What the heck? Can someone shed some more clarity on this?

Thanks.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

jagmp said:


> so contract does not mean anything? :nuts::lol::bash:


Yes - the contract does not mean anything - I rent out myself and have experienced this many times now. As I said before - most tennant leave after the first year so I have always been able to increase without problems. Therefore I say that the rent cap have had very little effect.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

jixline said:


> it is when u want to sell most probably.
> 
> @234Sales that used to be the transfer fee charged by developers, but they ( dev) should waive it since LD are taking it. but try to call any developer... they still charge transfer so u will end up paying 3 % ( or the new buyer ).
> 
> the new law (13) states that Developers can only take admin fees, but heyy it is dubai :cheers:


Thanks Jixline - I hope you are right. I was thinking on Select which recently asked for 1% for their of-plan developments


----------



## Spurs

docc said:


> Ok, so someone correct me if i'm wrong.
> 
> The transfer fee charged by the developer has now been discontinued and replaced by a land department fee which is to be borne 1% by seller and 1% by developer. Is that correct?
> 
> If it isn't, then it means that buyer pays the 2% transfer fee to the developer and an additional 1% to the land department (total 3%). What the heck? Can someone shed some more clarity on this?
> 
> Thanks.


As I understand it the new law states that developers can no longer charge a transfer fee. The transfer fee is now payable to the land department as you have mentioned (1% buyer and 1% seller).

Developers are now only allowed to charge a admin fee. 

My question is does this also apply to master developers (Emaar / Nakheel / Dubai properties). Shouldn't lead by example?


----------



## MalcomX

arfie said:


> Jumeria Lakes is 5 minutes from the Marina. Alot of the people who are professional real estate believe the Jumeria Lakes will be a better place than the Marina in terms of living.
> 
> In the Marina in the evening its going to be pitch black when the sun goes down.
> 
> Also I dont think your gonna get 450 a week rent. Do you have a 2 bedroom or a 3 bedroom apartment ?


JLT better than Dubai Marina-how so?


----------



## laidback74

Hi Docc / Richard / High_Times/Dubai_Steve,


I've been following your posts on this forum and you all have some very insightful comments on the current market conditions. I would like to add my 2 cents and pose some questions which i'd like your opinions on:

With oil prices in a nosedive (Brent crude just closed below $60 a barrel today) it's quite concievable that oil prices will drop below $50 in the near term, and for the forseeable future, as GDP growth rates for all the major emerging economies are reducing significantly (I believe China will be something like 7 - 8% in 2008/2009 compared to 10% in 2007, India's growth is reducing, etc.) and going into the negative for all mature markets (i.e. Japan/US/UK/etc.). This will ofcourse have a severe negative impact on THE GCC's growth rate as well, thus impacting job growth in the UAE. With less jobs in the economy than previously estimated (in Sheikh Mohammed's 2015 plan), surely the demand forecasts for new property in the UAE will change to reflect the lower demand there will be for housing here and put further downward pressure on property prices. I'm sure an impending reduction of housing supply is definitely on the cards, but how that will cushion the reduction in demand I can't say. 

My question is: Is it reasonable to assume that a Singapore style price correction could take effect over the next 2 to 3 yrs due to the factors of oil prices falling below $50/barrel, shrinking GDP growth and lower demand for housing? If so, even if we hold our purchases over the next 5 - 10 yrs, is anyone really going to make all that much money if prices fall to 50 - 80% of today's purchase price in the next 3 yrs, only to get back up to today's prices in 5 - 10 yrs? From what I've read, prices in Singapore had only recently gone back up to their 1997 peak levels (in 2007 I believe). 

Maybe the media made the price falls in Asia during 1997 to be more than they were, maybe prime locations retained their value much better and recovered much more quickly, I'm not really sure, there's not too much proper analysis out there on what ACTUALLY happened. 

I'm not asking for predictions, just opinions really. What's your take on this guys?


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

^^^^ Great points... Seems like there is no end in sight... As much faith as I have in the Dubai property market... It doesnt seem like a bad idea to take profits now and re-invest 6-12 months from now at lower prices... Come on Docc... give me some positive news... 

*http://edition.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/10/27/world.markets/index.html*

(CNN) -- Global stocks plummeted again Monday with some markets seeking out record-breaking lows as fears of a global recession continued to alarm investors.

European markets opened lower, adding to sell-offs across Asia, including a near-*13 percent plunge of Hong Kong's Hang Seng.*

*Major markets -- in London, Paris and Frankfurt -- were all around 4-5 *percent in early trading. 

Wall Street was also poised to open lower, with *Dow futures down more than 200 points. *

*In Asia, Hong Kong's major index closed down 12.7 percent, while Tokyo's bellwether Nikkei lost more than 6 percent, *closing at its lowest level in 26 years. The index stumbled as the yen fluctuated near a record high against the dollar -- a condition that makes Japanese exports more expensive. See market updates

In the *Philippines the key index lost 12.3 percent. *

It was the lowest close since September 2004 and the biggest one-day drop since February 2007, triggering a circuit-breaker that halted trading for 15 minutes, The Associated Press reported.

In India, Mumbai's BSE SENSEX was off about 5 percent in afternoon trading.

*http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Markets/10254797.html*

Dubai: Dubai's benchmark index closed at its lowest since March 2005 as global recession fears spilled over into Gulf markets. 

*Emaar Properties dragged Dubai index lower, falling 9.25 per cent. The index dropped 5.8 per cent to 2,922 points.*


----------



## docc

Spurs said:


> As I understand it the new law states that developers can no longer charge a transfer fee. The transfer fee is now payable to the land department as you have mentioned (1% buyer and 1% seller).
> 
> Developers are now only allowed to charge a admin fee.
> 
> My question is does this also apply to master developers (Emaar / Nakheel / Dubai properties). Shouldn't lead by example?


I had a chat with Nakheel about the same issue as i'm currently in the process of a property transfer. They said that i still have to pay the 2% transfer fee as they haven't received any orders from above stating the contrary. I asked about the land registration fee and they said that we don't need to make any additional payment to the land department as Nakheel will pay on our behalf. At this point i began to giggle, as the thought of any developer paying for something on the buyer's behalf just sounds....well funny.

Anyhow, the gist is that the law is still in a grey area and there isn't enough awareness being spread around about the same. Will check with RERA tomorrow morning and see what they have to say. Will possibly even swing by to the land department to get some first hand answers.


----------



## IISinbadII

MalcomX said:


> JLT better than Dubai Marina-how so?


That post is 3 1/2 years old. :bash:

It does not get dark at night in Marina, you could see all the towers (JBR, JLT, Marina) and the boats in the water. And from some units you could even sea the sea. Its breathtaking both during the day and at night.


----------



## legal eagle

*THE CREDIT CRUNCH*

Basically:

If fewer people can get access to loans- they will *rent*

If off-plan *all fart no poo *developments out in the desert are too expensive b/c of the flippers pushing up prices- people will shy away and *rent*.

If confidence in the market is weak people will.... *rent*


If end users projects are delayed b/c of funding issues due to said Credit crunch...they willl *rent*

So....

If you bought property based on location/rentable value/ facilities and a belief that demand is there from tenants- 

If you actually gave a sh*t about the end result of the project you invested in, the completion of area and the property itself- you probably took more time to make sure all things were in line to have a good rental property.

Incidentally that also meant indirectly you had a vested interested in Dubai's finished product, and had quietly made the decision to stick around.

You are now being rewarded in a strange way as you have a safety net that you can *rent *this property if its not selling
and probably for a fair return.

:banana:


----------



## IISinbadII

Old Town Lovin... said:


> ^^^^ Great points... Seems like there is no end in sight... As much faith as I have in the Dubai property market... It doesnt seem like a bad idea to take profits now and re-invest 6-12 months from now at lower prices... Come on Docc... give me some positive news...


Bro, if you have cash.....think about taking advantage of the deals. The world is not ending yet. People still need food to eat and places to live. 

Buy something really good which is complete. Like a nice apt in Marina with full marina view, JBR with full sea view, something in JLT near the metro station or in the Burj area. Put it out on rent and go to sleep for a few years.


----------



## IISinbadII

legal eagle said:


> Basically:
> 
> If fewer people can get access to loans- they will *rent*
> 
> If off-plan *all fart no poo *developments out in the desert are too expensive b/c of the flippers pushing up prices- people will shy away and *rent*.
> 
> If confidence in the market is weak people will.... *rent*
> 
> 
> If end users projects are delayed b/c of funding issues due to said Credit crunch...they willl *rent*
> 
> So....
> 
> If you bought property based on location/rentable value/ facilities and a belief that demand is there from tenants-
> 
> If you actually gave a sh*t about the end result of the project you invested in, the completion of area and the property itself- you probably took more time to make sure all things were in line to have a good rental property.
> 
> Incidentally that also meant indirectly you had a vested interested in Dubai's finished product, and had quietly made the decision to stick around.
> 
> You are now being rewarded in a strange way as you have a safety net that you can *rent *this property if its not selling
> and probably for a fair return.
> 
> :banana:


You about summed it up. kay: kay:


----------



## legal eagle

*exactly*



IISinbadII said:


> Bro, if you have cash.....think about taking advantage of the deals. The world is not ending yet. People still need food to eat and places to live.
> 
> Buy something really good which is complete. Like a nice apt in Marina with full marina view, JBR with full sea view, something in JLT near the metro station or in the Burj area. Put it out on rent and go to sleep for a few years.


Exactly it Sinbad,

In this market your main variable now should be rental return.

Can you make 8 percent plus on it? yes? then buy.

It also allows a margin for capital gain because many mature amrkets accept 4-5 % rtns.

Its exactly the same in London.

If in this crunch, someone comes to me with a property that can rent out for 100k per annum I will buy it for around a mill.

I also think you must know your area, know what people can afford to pay and know realistically what you tenants require as in sizes etc.

Armed with this 'on the ground' information you can make some gr8 returns.

The world is still turning. Flippers are out. thas all.


----------



## docc

laidback74 said:


> Hi Docc / Richard / High_Times/Dubai_Steve,
> 
> 
> I've been following your posts on this forum and you all have some very insightful comments on the current market conditions. I would like to add my 2 cents and pose some questions which i'd like your opinions on:
> 
> With oil prices in a nosedive (Brent crude just closed below $60 a barrel today) it's quite concievable that oil prices will drop below $50 in the near term, and for the forseeable future, as GDP growth rates for all the major emerging economies are reducing significantly (I believe China will be something like 7 - 8% in 2008/2009 compared to 10% in 2007, India's growth is reducing, etc.) and going into the negative for all mature markets (i.e. Japan/US/UK/etc.). This will ofcourse have a severe negative impact on THE GCC's growth rate as well, thus impacting job growth in the UAE. With less jobs in the economy than previously estimated (in Sheikh Mohammed's 2015 plan), surely the demand forecasts for new property in the UAE will change to reflect the lower demand there will be for housing here and put further downward pressure on property prices. I'm sure an impending reduction of housing supply is definitely on the cards, but how that will cushion the reduction in demand I can't say.
> 
> My question is: Is it reasonable to assume that a Singapore style price correction could take effect over the next 2 to 3 yrs due to the factors of oil prices falling below $50/barrel, shrinking GDP growth and lower demand for housing? If so, even if we hold our purchases over the next 5 - 10 yrs, is anyone really going to make all that much money if prices fall to 50 - 80% of today's purchase price in the next 3 yrs, only to get back up to today's prices in 5 - 10 yrs? From what I've read, prices in Singapore had only recently gone back up to their 1997 peak levels (in 2007 I believe).
> 
> Maybe the media made the price falls in Asia during 1997 to be more than they were, maybe prime locations retained their value much better and recovered much more quickly, I'm not really sure, there's not too much proper analysis out there on what ACTUALLY happened.
> 
> I'm not asking for predictions, just opinions really. What's your take on this guys?


Hi laidback,

Interesting questions and comparisons 

I generally like to assess a situation based on facts and figures. For instance, you're concern about crude oil prices is a very valid one. Govt's have budgeted pretty much everything from massive real estate projects to infrastructure based on an oil price of $40-50 a barrel. The only real time to be concerned is when the price of oil falls below this level. Infact, you can read articles about the same in today's paper (GN) and arabianbusiness.com. Even if oil prices fall below this level, the only action that will be taken by the Govt. is scaling back of projects. Note, i did not say cancel projects as this is something that would only happen under extremely dire circumstances.

Also, Iran and Venezuela are forcing Opec to cut production further as oil prices dived despite the recent 1.5 M bpd cut. Since their oil is rather heavy, it takes more to refine it leaving a smaller margin of profit for them. They are currently targeting a price of $70-$90 a barrel which according to them will be beneficial to both the producers and the consumers (how i don't know to be very honest!).

Next, i agree that economies worldwide are growing at a slower pace as compared to previous years. However, they are growing nonetheless! With massive bailouts taking place around the world, expect Govt's to ask for more taxes and potentially tap into pension funds. How do you think this is going to make people feel? You'd be surprised with the number of job applications in finance and pretty much every other sector showing up every day in Dubai and the Gulf for that matter. People want to move to an area like Dubai which offers Sun and Sand pretty much all throughout the year, not to mention, a TAX-FREE environment! This isn't me speculating or just talking out of my rear end; this is FACT. Ask anyone in the banking, hospitality or the healthcare sector and you will hear the same thing.

Now, with new jobs being created and more influx of people why would there be an oversupply of housing space? According to RERA, there is a current shortage of 300,000 units and this number is only going to get bigger  if the ratio of construction vs delivery does not improve. Dubai Properties who is one of the largest developers is only delivering 5000 units this year which is like a drop in the ocean! Reports this year talked about roughly 70,000 units coming into the market. If this is true, this would easily get lapped up as major chunk of these units is in Discovery Gardens and International City which are relatively cheaper compared to the rest of Dubai. With the new villa rules (soon to be extended to apartments), where only one family can stay in each villa, where are all the people supposed to go? Sharjah and Ajman are the logical choices but there's only so much that they can cope up with too. Also, with all of Satwa being razed down, tenants are going to have to relocate to the same areas as mentioned before. Believe me, there will NOT be an oversupply and the only time property prices will go down is when there is an oversupply.

People tend to forget that as opposed to other countries, Dubai is a highly regulated market. The moment you see signs of demand catching up with supply, the Govt will take action to slow down construction. Don't be surprised if this happens, as this keeps the market always playing the catchup game. You will not see price drops, the likes of Singapore ever in Dubai. You might see a correction in over-inflated prices but the chances of prices dropping severely are negligible. 

Sure, there's a glitch now because of the global financial crisis. According to market reports, recession started in the US in December 2007 but has only now started showing its true colors. Its expected to get out of recession in May 2009 making this the longest recession the US have ever faced in the last 2 decades i.e a total of 17 months. Once things start getting better around the world, so will they in the rest of the world. You have better chances of surviving in Dubai than in more than 50-75% of the planet! Just because a few panic sellers are selling simply because they don't understand the market, this in no way represents the true strength of the market and the vision of its rulers. The rulers have literally invested everything they have in this city, so bear in mind that they will do anything to prevent it from being hurt.

Dubai is the financial hub of an entire continent and that in itself says a lot about a city. Add to this, the fact that it will be the entertainment, leisure and shopping capital of the world and you've got nothing to worry about.

Well, that's just the way i think. Let the criticism and hate now pour in from all the naysayers :lol:


----------



## laidback74

Old Town Lovin... said:


> ^^^^ Great points... Seems like there is no end in sight... As much faith as I have in the Dubai property market... It doesnt seem like a bad idea to take profits now and re-invest 6-12 months from now at lower prices... Come on Docc... give me some positive news...
> 
> *http://edition.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/10/27/world.markets/index.html*
> 
> (CNN) -- Global stocks plummeted again Monday with some markets seeking out record-breaking lows as fears of a global recession continued to alarm investors.
> 
> European markets opened lower, adding to sell-offs across Asia, including a near-*13 percent plunge of Hong Kong's Hang Seng.*
> 
> *Major markets -- in London, Paris and Frankfurt -- were all around 4-5 *percent in early trading.
> 
> Wall Street was also poised to open lower, with *Dow futures down more than 200 points. *
> 
> *In Asia, Hong Kong's major index closed down 12.7 percent, while Tokyo's bellwether Nikkei lost more than 6 percent, *closing at its lowest level in 26 years. The index stumbled as the yen fluctuated near a record high against the dollar -- a condition that makes Japanese exports more expensive. See market updates
> 
> In the *Philippines the key index lost 12.3 percent. *
> 
> It was the lowest close since September 2004 and the biggest one-day drop since February 2007, triggering a circuit-breaker that halted trading for 15 minutes, The Associated Press reported.
> 
> In India, Mumbai's BSE SENSEX was off about 5 percent in afternoon trading.
> 
> *http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Markets/10254797.html*
> 
> Dubai: Dubai's benchmark index closed at its lowest since March 2005 as global recession fears spilled over into Gulf markets.
> 
> *Emaar Properties dragged Dubai index lower, falling 9.25 per cent. The index dropped 5.8 per cent to 2,922 points.*


Unfortunately Old_Town_Lovin, taking profits at the moment isn't an option, since there aren't any buyers in sight for properties in general. I'm not really sure what the way out is, even if you put your property out there for zero premium. I've been told by agents that this should change in a few months, that everyone is just frozen right now, so I'm trying to stay optimistic. But if given a chance, I'd rather sell and get back in after a year or two myself. 

Renting is also an option, but I do believe rents should be going down over the next 2 - 3 yrs if reduction in job growth reduces demand and more supply comes on board. I would think this scenario is in the govt's best interests, since they want more affordable property available so as to keep attracting good talent to the country and reducing inflation.


----------



## docc

legal eagle said:


> Basically:
> 
> If fewer people can get access to loans- they will *rent*
> 
> If off-plan *all fart no poo *developments out in the desert are too expensive b/c of the flippers pushing up prices- people will shy away and *rent*.
> 
> If confidence in the market is weak people will.... *rent*
> 
> 
> If end users projects are delayed b/c of funding issues due to said Credit crunch...they willl *rent*
> 
> So....
> 
> If you bought property based on location/rentable value/ facilities and a belief that demand is there from tenants-
> 
> If you actually gave a sh*t about the end result of the project you invested in, the completion of area and the property itself- you probably took more time to make sure all things were in line to have a good rental property.
> 
> Incidentally that also meant indirectly you had a vested interested in Dubai's finished product, and had quietly made the decision to stick around.
> 
> You are now being rewarded in a strange way as you have a safety net that you can *rent *this property if its not selling
> and probably for a fair return.
> 
> :banana:


Excellent analysis :cheers:


----------



## IISinbadII

Where is Akhi Salem Al Suwaidi aka "*smussuw* the patriot Emirati".









Time for plan-B may be coming sooner than expected! :banana: :bash:


----------



## dlnash

docc said:


> Hi laidback,
> 
> Interesting questions and comparisons
> 
> I generally like to assess a situation based on facts and figures. For instance, you're concern about crude oil prices is a very valid one. Govt's have budgeted pretty much everything from massive real estate projects to infrastructure based on an oil price of $40-50 a barrel. The only real time to be concerned is when the price of oil falls below this level. Infact, you can read articles about the same in today's paper (GN) and arabianbusiness.com. Even if oil prices fall below this level, the only action that will be taken by the Govt. is scaling back of projects. Note, i did not say cancel projects as this is something that would only happen under extremely dire circumstances.
> 
> Also, Iran and Venezuela are forcing Opec to cut production further as oil prices dived despite the recent 1.5 M bpd cut. Since their oil is rather heavy, it takes more to refine it leaving a smaller margin of profit for them. They are currently targeting a price of $70-$90 a barrel which according to them will be beneficial to both the producers and the consumers (how i don't know to be very honest!).
> 
> Next, i agree that economies worldwide are growing at a slower pace as compared to previous years. However, they are growing nonetheless! With massive bailouts taking place around the world, expect Govt's to ask for more taxes and potentially tap into pension funds. How do you think this is going to make people feel? You'd be surprised with the number of job applications in finance and pretty much every other sector showing up every day in Dubai and the Gulf for that matter. People want to move to an area like Dubai which offers Sun and Sand pretty much all throughout the year, not to mention, a TAX-FREE environment! This isn't me speculating or just talking out of my rear end; this is FACT. Ask anyone in the banking, hospitality or the healthcare sector and you will hear the same thing.
> 
> Now, with new jobs being created and more influx of people why would there be an oversupply of housing space? According to RERA, there is a current shortage of 300,000 units and this number is only going to get bigger if the ratio of construction vs delivery does not improve. Dubai Properties who is one of the largest developers is only delivering 5000 units this year which is like a drop in the ocean! Reports this year talked about roughly 70,000 units coming into the market. If this is true, this would easily get lapped up as major chunk of these units is in Discovery Gardens and International City which are relatively cheaper compared to the rest of Dubai. With the new villa rules (soon to be extended to apartments), where only one family can stay in each villa, where are all the people supposed to go? Sharjah and Ajman are the logical choices but there's only so much that they can cope up with too. Also, with all of Satwa being razed down, tenants are going to have to relocate to the same areas as mentioned before. Believe me, there will NOT be an oversupply and the only time property prices will go down is when there is an oversupply.
> 
> People tend to forget that as opposed to other countries, Dubai is a highly regulated market. The moment you see signs of demand catching up with supply, the Govt will take action to slow down construction. Don't be surprised if this happens, as this keeps the market always playing the catchup game. You will not see price drops, the likes of Singapore ever in Dubai. You might see a correction in over-inflated prices but the thought of prices dropping severely are negligible.
> 
> Sure, there's a glitch now because of the global financial crisis. According to market reports, recession started in the US in December 2007 but has only now started showing its true colors. Its expected to get out of recession in May 2009 making this the longest recession the US have ever faced in the last 2 decades i.e a total of 17 months. Once things start getting better around the world, so will they in the rest of the world. You have better chances of surviving in Dubai than in more than 50-75% of the planet! Just because a few panic sellers are selling simply because they don't understand the market, this in no way represents the true strength of the market and the vision of its rulers. The rulers have literally invested everything they have in this city, so bear in mind that they will do anything to prevent it from being hurt.
> 
> Dubai is the financial hub of an entire continent and that in itself says a lot about a city. Add to this, the fact that it will be the entertainment, leisure and shopping capital of the world and you've got nothing to worry about.
> 
> Well, that's just the way i think. Let the criticism and hate now pour in from all the naysayers :lol:


great analysis docc..
Are you somehow connected to the ruling family or something?? m))


----------



## docc

^^ Isn't he on vacation?

He'll be more than happy for plan-B to happen!


----------



## docc

dlnash said:


> great analysis docc..
> Are you somehow connected to the ruling family or something?? m))


Lol, i WISH! :lol:

If i was, you think i'd be here on the forums? I'd probably be in my veyron flashing cars in front of me on SZR!


----------



## Richard Head

Morten_Denmark said:


> I doesnt matter what your contract says - it is three years for the tennant and you can only increase 5% after two years - that is 24 months with the same rent - hereafter +5%. Fourth year you are free to do what you want.


Hi Morten, regarding your comment on 4th year, are you 100% sure of this, is it in writing anywhere, or do you know anyone I can get a confirmation from. I have heard others say that even in year 4, the cap is still in effect and you can only evict tenant if you have a solid justification, like you can prove you have nowehere else to live and need the property yourself.

Any clarification / advice you can give on this would be greatly appreciated (not to mention making me about 150,000 AED better off next July :cheers


----------



## jacobdxb

^^ docc, great and very insightfull comments... I bet a lot of there doomsters are people who just want to snap up a good deal themselves...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yes so now you should go back to basics and get your calculator out, check the purchase price against the projected rental income from when it is rentable and calculate the yield. There are some very good yields avalable in the Dubai residential market, 8% to 12% gross yield (before costs). Buy one of these and hold it for 4 or 5 years. The fundamentals of strong yield (only available in Dubai) will ensure that you will make a profit once the buyers return. Dubai is still the place to invest if you have cash. If yield is below 7 or 8% then look for something else in Dubai instead. 8% and above is still very achievable.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

docc said:


> Sure, there's a glitch now because of the global financial crisis. According to market reports, recession started in the US in December 2007 but has only now started showing its true colors. Its expected to get out of recession in May 2009 making this the longest recession the US have ever faced in the last 2 decades i.e a total of 17 months. Well, that's just the way i think. Let the criticism and hate now pour in from all the naysayers :lol:


Haha... no naysaying... but where did you get that bit of info about May 2009.. I havent read that prediction / analysis anywhere...

I dont think we will be in the clear here until a period of time after this global meltdown ends... 

Yes, rent is nice... but capital appreciation is nicer... Because most of us are only here as long as our work visas will allow... hno:


----------



## docc

Old Town Lovin... said:


> Haha... no naysaying... but where did you get that bit of info about May 2009.. I havent read that prediction / analysis anywhere...
> 
> I dont think we will be in the clear here until a period of time after this global meltdown ends...
> 
> Yes, rent is nice... but capital appreciation is nicer... Because most of us are only here as long as our work visas will allow... hno:


http://www.forbes.com/markets/bonds/feeds/ap/2008/10/25/ap5605025.html

I read a similar article on arabianbusiness.com. Will see if i can dig it up.

_"The chief investment strategist for Standard & Poor's equity research, Sam Stovall, has a more precise timeline. *He says the recession began in December 2007 and will not end until May 2009.*

That would be a *17-month recession, the longest since World War II*. The United States suffered through 16-month recessions from July 1981 to November 1982 and November 1973 to March 1975."_


----------



## legal eagle

docc said:


> Dubai is the financial hub of an entire continent and that in itself says a lot about a city. QUOTE]
> 
> That is exactly it....
> 
> No one really gets this point at all- Dubai represents the Middle East.
> 
> There is no one close to it, no one who will ACTUALLY catch it up in our life time and no one therefore to knock it off its pedestal...
> 
> Its pedestal/purpose being the centrepoint for ME business and development.
> 
> I would encourage you to take a drive up to AD, fly to Saudi or spend a week in Kuwait.
> 
> Light years ahead and simply having more money then Dubai will not solve the problem.
> 
> Qatar is really still nothing even tho it seems to have a pretty healthy ad spend on CNN.
> 
> Dubai will represent the ME region for a long long time and as it continues to boom so will Dubai.
> 
> Stop looking anywhere else. It has very strong fundamentals.


----------



## Richard Head

Laidback,

I support Doccs view, I believe the simplicity of local supply / demand will be a bigger driving force in the Real Estate market than the global economic mess. Surely demand will fall to some extent, but then supply may also fall, and I still believe very firmly that supply will not catch up with demand in the foreseeable future, no matter how dire the global situation becomes.

I'm no economist (well, I got an O level 20+ years ago :lol but isn't supply and demand the most fundamental, irrefutable law of economics? Can't comment on the Singapore comparison as I don't know what the global economy was doing at the time, or more importantly whan the local supply / demand drivers were (point well and truly laboured):cheers:. 

So it's just a blip. Fairly big blip, admittedly, but it'll all be forgotten by the time they top out Trump, and those of us who kept the faith will be laughing all the way to a happy retirement.

Oh yeah, ITS JUST MY OPINION, YOUR SEE.hno:


----------



## Richard Head

docc said:


> http://www.forbes.com/markets/bonds/feeds/ap/2008/10/25/ap5605025.html
> 
> I read a similar article on arabianbusiness.com. Will see if i can dig it up.
> 
> _"The chief investment strategist for Standard & Poor's equity research, Sam Stovall, has a more precise timeline. *He says the recession began in December 2007 and will not end until May 2009.*
> 
> That would be a *17-month recession, the longest since World War II*. The United States suffered through 16-month recessions from July 1981 to November 1982 and November 1973 to March 1975."_


Crikey, it's almost over already. I'll drink to that. :cheers:


----------



## first timer

Spurs said:


> As I understand it the new law states that developers can no longer charge a transfer fee. The transfer fee is now payable to the land department as you have mentioned (1% buyer and 1% seller).
> 
> Developers are now only allowed to charge a admin fee.
> 
> My question is does this also apply to master developers (Emaar / Nakheel / Dubai properties). Shouldn't lead by example?


Admin fee?
This will be interesting, it being Dubai I suspect they the developers will earn more on admin fees than the transfer fee now

They need to cap the admin fee or some developers may try and charge stupid feeshno:


----------



## first timer

docc said:


> http://www.forbes.com/markets/bonds/feeds/ap/2008/10/25/ap5605025.html
> 
> I read a similar article on arabianbusiness.com. Will see if i can dig it up.
> 
> _"The chief investment strategist for Standard & Poor's equity research, Sam Stovall, has a more precise timeline. *He says the recession began in December 2007 and will not end until May 2009.*
> 
> That would be a *17-month recession, the longest since World War II*. The United States suffered through 16-month recessions from July 1981 to November 1982 and November 1973 to March 1975."_


I suspect you can double and add more on time scales to these figures
The bubble is only just starting to burst, te buy one get one free offers are not quite on the shelves as of yet
:lol:


----------



## docc

Richard...:lol:

Btw, the forbes article says that around 760,000 job cuts took place in the US even before the bailout began. You can only imagine how many jobs have been lost all over the West thanks to the economic crisis.

Where do you think these guys want to go?  I'm not saying Dubai, but they will definitely find alternate places where they foresee a good future. It's really that simple.


----------



## Richard Head

first timer said:


> I suspect you can double and add more on time scales to these figures
> The bubble is only just starting to burst, te buy one get one free offers are not quite on the shelves as of yet
> :lol:


Dude,

there's nothing in that post you haven't said 20 times before, and yet again there's no substance, no data, no thought process. Give it a rest, we know it's JUST YOUR OPINION. Say something funny, write us a poem, draw a picture, post pics of you in your underpants, whatever, anything but more of this drivel.:bash:

Christ, he's going to get me banned now.


----------



## first timer

*To docc*

*Before members jump out of there prams this is a joke*

Docc as a medical doctor your be able to make a fortune with the great depression that people may face with falling property prices, your be able to offer 5 minutes consulations and give a months supplie of prozac for 50 quid per consultation.
This is were your earn your fortune my friend

By the way take a choice of loads of empy commercial units avaliable at very good prices, you never know they may even throw in a new car with a green flashing light on top of it as an incentive

I can be your agent and pick them up from the airport as they land in a full size coach between us were make more money than waiting for the market to turn and you never know this type of service they may exclude from taxes when they arrive?

:lol:


----------



## Richard Head

first timer said:


> you guys keep the positivity coming as it is obviously helping with your self confidence
> BUT I just hope when it goes bang that your pride does not get hurt too much
> 
> We have this debate in 6 months but im sure your find a way of talking yourselves out of it
> :lol:


First timer my old mate. your posts, whilst being repetitive, dull and lacking in any kind of thought or analysis, do make me wonder a few things

1) Do you live in Dubai?
2) Do you own property in Dubai, and if so, where? Think I already know the answer to that one, but surprise me.
3) Do you have ANY facts, or even logical thoughts, on which to base your opinion? We really really would like you to share them. We hereby acknowledge they are purely your opinion, we will not sue you, we will petition the moderators not to have you summarily executed, etc etc.
4) you'll. you'll. and their.

Cheers :cheers:

Sir Richard of Head


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> Currently, a bizarre situation exists in Dubai in which newly released projects cost more than ones that are well underway, or already delivered. This is irrational, because there's more doubt about the completion of the newly released project, which reduces as handover nears, while completed projects should sell for a premium because they have the ability to generate rental income, or be occupied, immediately. I suspect this has been the case because the new, off-plan project requires the least cash to be tied up, so is superficially more attractive to those wanting to flip - even though, actually, they might do better to buy in projects about to be completed, especially if they can pick up units from people unable to meet the staged payments, as could soon be the case.



It is a crazy situation where new projects cost more than ones U/C or completed even if there's less money to put down for the new ones.

Maybe this will change as it looks like new projects will be difficult to sell at the moment.So developers will have to be a bit more realistic with prices.

Another reason why new projects may come down in price is the reduction in material costs which is set to continue coming down.
Maybe we will start seeing launches back at 750/800 psf as in 2007?
If so then perhaps this will drag down the prices of U/C and completed.

Also,if there are to be less buyers and more renters,this will then surely push rental prices higher due to the supply shortgage and more demand.
Higher rents means near completed properties or those completed
will be even more attractive to investors.


----------



## legal eagle

*banksy*



Richard Head said:


> Yup Mistermark, good logical analysis.
> 
> Any calls on how the banks will handle this and what will drive their strategy?




We definitely need banks funding based on CURRENT market values, its things like premiums matching original prices that have 

a) fuelled flip deals as extremely attractive to average Joe, and 

b) kept near completion properties irrationally low and only available to cash buyers- who are all rolling in roubles.

I say kept irrationally low, because it is clear that some properties will generate plus 10% returns and any average investor can see there is a margin between a bank lending rate and the income potential there.

If I could just find the right bank manager to effect my cunning plan i'd live off the margin.... :cheers:


----------



## docc

Mistermark said:


> IMHO that's the most important question anyone with money tied up in projects not yet completed should be asking right now. Sadly, Sheikh Mo's track record when projects have halted or been badly delayed has not been the best to date...


Actually, from my understanding, the reason the govt. took a stake in Damac is to ensure that investors don't suffer. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong.

I wish they would do something about Lagoons as well; i feel really bad for people who invested there.


----------



## docc

Richard Head said:


> First timer my old mate. your posts, whilst being repetitive, dull and lacking in any kind of thought or analysis, do make me wonder a few things
> 
> 1) Do you live in Dubai?
> 2) Do you own property in Dubai, and if so, where? Think I already know the answer to that one, but surprise me.
> 3) Do you have ANY facts, or even logical thoughts, on which to base your opinion? We really really would like you to share them. We hereby acknowledge they are purely your opinion, we will not sue you, we will petition the moderators not to have you summarily executed, etc etc.
> 4) you'll. you'll. and their.
> 
> Cheers :cheers:
> 
> Sir Richard of Head


:lol: at point 4!!!

Richard, don't bother; its a waste of time. He's clearly a troll.


----------



## mackie1964

docc said:


> :lol: at point 4!!!
> 
> Richard, don't bother; its a waste of time. He's clearly a troll.


It took you a while to figure it out, keep up Doc :lol:


----------



## tiny

which of the banks are actually lending to expats and what sort of ltv? i had an email from my bank in dubai today and they have stopped lending to expats funding homes in dubai!


----------



## docc

mackie1964 said:


> It took you a while to figure it out, keep up Doc :lol:


:lol:

Yea, after the slew of PM's and illogical posts, i decided to stop giving him the benefit of doubt!

Sorry, i didn't listen to you earlier!


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> _"The chief investment strategist for Standard & Poor's equity research, Sam Stovall, has a more precise timeline. *He says the recession began in December 2007 and will not end until May 2009.*
> 
> _


As early as May 2009,am surprised,then again their troubles started alot earlier.
So that means as the US economy will strenghten months quicker than the UK and other countries,the dollar will get even stronger,so there will be even less buyers from these other countries?


----------



## Mistermark

Wannaberich said:


> Another reason why new projects may come down in price is the reduction in material costs which is set to continue coming down.
> Maybe we will start seeing launches back at 750/800 psf as in 2007?
> If so then perhaps this will drag down the prices of U/C and completed.
> 
> Also,if there are to be less buyers and more renters,this will then surely push rental prices higher due to the supply shortgage and more demand.
> Higher rents means near completed properties or those completed
> will be even more attractive to investors.


I don't think prices will come down to AED 750/800 psf because of the reduction in raw materials costs. Those prices last pertained when materials costs were very low indeed, lower than I suspect they're heading, but also when Dubai was a lot less developed and land cost less than today.

Also, I agree with your argument about the rental market. Unless it collapses from current levels, the yields being generated warrant the resale prices that applied before the recent downturn and more, so I don't think developers will sell much below that level.

I guess my reading of the market is that anyone needing to sell now may have to accept rubbish pricing because there are almost no buyers about, due to the state of the global economy and banking system, but once that situation stabilises, there will be a healthy market in Dubai for sales of completed units to landlords and owner-occupiers at Spring/Summer 2008 prices or higher, albeit that we won't see the pace of announcement of new projects return to its former level for a while, and off-plan units may no longer be released at premiums to resales.


----------



## Wannaberich

Altin could you then change the title of that thread to someting like 'Currency' and re-open it? Its an important subject and would appreciate you doing that.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> I don't think prices will come down to AED 750/800 psf because of the reduction in raw materials costs. Those prices last pertained when materials costs were very low indeed, lower than I suspect they're heading, but also when Dubai was a lot less developed and land cost less than today.
> 
> .


I was thinking developers who brought their land,say,2/3 years ago may be able to achieve 750/800.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> albeit that we won't see the pace of announcement of new projects return to its former level for a while, .


It seems hardly anything is launched these days.Its dead.Am I right?


----------



## bjassin

*The DEFINITIVE ANSWER !!*

The real answer as to what is happenning and what is going to happen is that NO ONE has a clue. Right now, the market is ruled by SHEER PANIC !!

If someone were to say to me that property prices in Dubai will drop by 50% in 2 months, I could believe it. At the same time, if someone says that 2 months from now prices will be up by 50% I could believe that too.

Just imagine a few months ago. If someone had told you that the price of oil would drop by MORE than half in a few months and that the price of GOLD will also drop and that the DOLLAR would actually appreciate against the euro, whould would have believed it??

In 2 months the world has been turned upside down !! Who is to say that in 2 months from now it won't turn right-side up again? 

These sure are interesting, crazy times we live in now...

BJ


----------



## London21

*The Address - Downtown Burj Dubai*

*WHich option would you go for??*


Dhs 86.47 annual maintenance per sq feet 
Includes:

Free water/electricity /cable / telephone / 3 times change of linen towels / 3 times house keeping.

*3 options offered by Emaar*


*Option 1 *

Give it back to The Address and they will run as hotel and give us 71 % of net revenue they receive 
Maintenance will be paid by unit owners 


*Option 2 *

Use it yourself and only pay maintenance


*Option 3 *

Give it to Hamptons they will individually rent out units 
But on short term basis minimum 3 months / 6 months /1 year 
Will take 6 % of the rental 
Maintenance to be paid by us


----------



## worried1

*How will 20$ oil affect Dubai real estate*

Beutel: Crude Could Hit $20 A Barrel
Topics:Environment | Alternative Energy | Energy | Commodities | Natural Disasters | Russia
Sectors:Industrial Goods and Services | Utilities | Oil and GasBy CNBC.com | 27 Oct 2008 | 08:13 AM ET Text Size A fast and furious as the crude oil market selloff has been, it's far from over, says one expert.



"The pendulum does swing much faster than we give it credit for," says Peter Beutel of Cameron Hanover.

Beutel says $37 a barrel is likely, even $20 a barrel isn't out of the question. 

"If we look at every bear market over last 30, we always cut the high by four," says beutel, which is how he gets the $37 number.

(Watch the accompanying video for the full interview with Beutel...)

Crude neared $60 Monday, having trade near $150 in July.


More On Energy 
Oil Slides Again
OPEC Agrees On Output Cut 

Beutel warns that though consumers and investors may welcome cheap oil again, we need to not repeat our mistakes of the past, when low prices yielded a lack of investment in new technology and alternative fuels. 

"We're going to get too low," he warns. "We're going to kill a lot of alternatives."

© 2008 CNBC.com


----------



## HarryKane

Imre said:


> 5050 dhs/sqft for Burj Dubai? I need a studio there!


The one being offered is a 2 bed, but I have a feeling that soon you'll have your choice of studios there.


----------



## HarryKane

docc said:


> Imre, you beat me to it! I'd be interested too if that's the price! Already sent him a pm  If not me, i definitely know a few people who'd pony up the cash INSTANTLY!


I'm in negotiations to knock off the price even further, so I can't give away that info at the moment.



docc said:


> Need to talk to my agents and check why they aren't getting me such rock bottom deals although they are doing a fairly good job and offering me some really good deals.


You're not talking to the right agents. Some other 0% premium deals: Ivory Tower-2 (60% on completion & 0% transfer), The Mansion, Standpoint, and M Burj 1. And 2250/sqft at Southridge 3 with full Burj view is something I also will be looking into.


----------



## HarryKane

mackie1964 said:


> Very interested in the Princess one, please let me have the details


I was late in pulling the trigger myself. Its gone. :bash:


----------



## Wannaberich

I feel more sorry for those who invested at JVillage.Many of those developments were launched a long time ago yet the place is still more or less empty.


----------



## Wannaberich

Don't think theres much doubt, whilst over the short term Dubai is on a rocky road,long term it's a great place to invest.
It does make you wonder,if prices are as high as they are now with Dubai only 25% complete(even if still below the prices of other cities),then what will they be worth in 10 years,in comparative terms, when many of these amazing projects are complete.
Whilst the money aspect is the reason why most people buy here,
it does I think give alot of investors a buzz to know they have some part in the building of a great city.


----------



## Cyrus55

What would be the prospect for RAK? There is a shortage of properties over there (Gulf news 29/10/2008)? Would demand and supply drive the market as it did before?


----------



## aazain

*No takers for Dubai Debt*

No Takers Of Dubai Debt 

Wednesday 29 Oct, 2008 

UAE: Citigroup, HSBC and seven other banks are still seeking buyers for $6 billion of loans to Investment Corporation of Dubai, more than two months after underwriting the debt.
Demand for Dubai loans has dried up on investor concern that the global crisis will hurt the state’s ability to finance itself. *Dubai’s government-controlled firms owe at least $47 billion, more than the emirate’s 2006 GDP, according to Moody’s.* 

http://www.7days.ae/storydetails.php?id=68432 &page=local news&title=No Takers Of Dubai Debt


----------



## smussuw

Just to throw some heat, Dubai executive council is studying reserving a percentage of real state projects to the Emiratis, now while this seems like a good move to support Emiratis housing program many say that they are trying get rid of the bulk of properties they cannot sell. What do u think?


----------



## mackie1964

smussuw said:


> Just to throw some heat, Dubai executive council is studying reserving a percentage of real state projects to the Emiratis, now while this seems like a good move to support Emiratis housing program many say that they are trying get rid of the bulk of properties they cannot sell. What do u think?


Would Emaratis like to live in the Torch :dunno: :lol::banana:


----------



## docc

So, i visited the Al Furjan sales center today and managed to take a look at one of the show villa's. This was a 6BR Dubai style villa, on a plot of 10,000 Sft with a built up area of 6857 Sft. I must say that i came out impressed since there was real attention to design and finishings were of great quality. The person who quickly gave me a tour told me that the final product would be of the same quality of this; ofcourse that's hard to believe so i guess time will tell.

The layout is very well planned and design and overall architecture is very appealing. This particular villa style reminded me a lot of Madinat Jumeirah with the wind-tower, paint color and overall clean appearance. Nothing felt haphazard or unnecessary.

There were some Quortaj styles and some terrace villa's also ready but i couldn't get into those as the center hasn't still opened up yet. From sources there, i was told that the official "open to all" day is November 15th. There were no Hejaz style villa's there unfortunately as that was the one i was a tad keen on, but after seeing the Dubai style, i think i have made up my mind!

Definitely worth the trip once its open. Oh, and next phase is supposed to be priced at a modest 12% higher than the last phase.

Regards.


----------



## docc

High Times said:


> I haven’t posted on here for a while as I am shocked at the total crap that has been posted lately. This thread has descended into almost childlike discussions and is in danger of losing all credibility.
> 
> Just my opinion
> 
> *laidback*.
> 
> As you have requested my opinion, here it is. Basically *back in July* a wrote a post that expressed my opinion of where the market was heading, much to some peoples amusement.
> 
> Go back and have a look here; http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=23345522&postcount=6523
> 
> If you read through the follow up posts for a page or so you will see that my opinion was in the minority at the time.
> 
> Recently this thread has turned into pages upon pages of drivel that has no factual information on it at all, it just reads like people trying to make themselves feel better.
> 
> When formers spend there time searching the internet looking for positive newspaper articles to post, so that everyone feels better about the market then it's all getting a bit desperate I think.
> 
> You all need to face facts. We are in a *GLOBAL RECESSION*, and will be for at least the next 12 months.
> 
> This means weaker economic output across the globe, reduced oil prices, reduced personal wealth and reduced consumer spending.
> 
> All of these factors are the very reasons why Dubai has seen such electrifying growth over recent years. Investors have invested because they have had surplus cash from their own base economies, as well as having easy cheap credit which has allowed for massive leveraging. This being part of the reason the credit markets have now frozen.
> 
> Over the coming months both corporate investors and private investors need to de-leverage. This will mean that funds will be returned to their origin (Brittan, Russia, Europe), in order to shore up corporate balance sheets and pay off personal borrowing.
> 
> The future of Dubai in my view is still a good one. Anyone who is investing for the long term 5-10 years will ride out any volatility in my opinion. The days of speculation are dead partly due to the government wanting to stop it, and partly due to the fact there are less speculators in a recessionary growth period.
> 
> Completed property should hold up well over the next year or so and so will the rental yields, so if your in this sector you have no need to worry.
> 
> New launches will be put on hold, maybe even cancelled as developers will have financing issues to contend with over the next year or so.
> 
> Overpriced areas will potentially see some downward pressure, undervalued areas will fare better.
> 
> The great unknown as far as I am concerned is how many people will run for cover. As we all know some investors have bought floors of buildings and multiple units as investments in the hope they can sell at huge profits nearer to completion. If these investors start to sell at no profit and even a negative return just to get out of the market (this is starting to happen now), then this could have a very negative impact on the completed property prices and rental yields over the next year.
> 
> This is a factor the UAE government have no control over.
> 
> There will always be optimists and pessimists in any market, and you can always put your own spin on any information form any source.
> 
> What you can’t deny is that the boom is over and Dubai PLC has now got to grow in a world that is shrinking, without the comfort of a regional money tree that has the world over a *barrel*.


HT,

Some interesting feedback there, thanks.

I'm getting a little old for this, so i'm personally taking a hiatus from being the resident optimist and trying to convince everyone that if you invest smartly, you will be ok. So, i'm just going to relax and enjoy the upcoming good weather. Aaaahhhhh....

Cheers everyone :cheers:


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> Just to throw some heat, Dubai executive council is studying reserving a percentage of real state projects to the Emiratis, now while this seems like a good move to support Emiratis housing program many say that they are trying get rid of the bulk of properties they cannot sell. What do u think?


Interesting. Emiratis would like to live in houses rather than apartments. And most real state projects are apartments. In case they do impliment this program, would they live in them or rent hem out?


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> I haven’t posted on here for a while as I am shocked at the total crap that has been posted lately. This thread has descended into almost childlike discussions and is in danger of losing all credibility.
> 
> Just my opinion
> 
> *laidback*.
> 
> As you have requested my opinion, here it is. Basically *back in July* a wrote a post that expressed my opinion of where the market was heading, much to some peoples amusement.
> 
> Go back and have a look here; http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=23345522&postcount=6523
> 
> If you read through the follow up posts for a page or so you will see that my opinion was in the minority at the time.
> 
> Recently this thread has turned into pages upon pages of drivel that has no factual information on it at all, it just reads like people trying to make themselves feel better.
> 
> When formers spend there time searching the internet looking for positive newspaper articles to post, so that everyone feels better about the market then it's all getting a bit desperate I think.
> 
> You all need to face facts. We are in a *GLOBAL RECESSION*, and will be for at least the next 12 months.
> 
> This means weaker economic output across the globe, reduced oil prices, reduced personal wealth and reduced consumer spending.
> 
> All of these factors are the very reasons why Dubai has seen such electrifying growth over recent years. Investors have invested because they have had surplus cash from their own base economies, as well as having easy cheap credit which has allowed for massive leveraging. This being part of the reason the credit markets have now frozen.
> 
> Over the coming months both corporate investors and private investors need to de-leverage. This will mean that funds will be returned to their origin (Brittan, Russia, Europe), in order to shore up corporate balance sheets and pay off personal borrowing.
> 
> The future of Dubai in my view is still a good one. Anyone who is investing for the long term 5-10 years will ride out any volatility in my opinion. The days of speculation are dead partly due to the government wanting to stop it, and partly due to the fact there are less speculators in a recessionary growth period.
> 
> Completed property should hold up well over the next year or so and so will the rental yields, so if your in this sector you have no need to worry.
> 
> New launches will be put on hold, maybe even cancelled as developers will have financing issues to contend with over the next year or so.
> 
> Overpriced areas will potentially see some downward pressure, undervalued areas will fare better.
> 
> The great unknown as far as I am concerned is how many people will run for cover. As we all know some investors have bought floors of buildings and multiple units as investments in the hope they can sell at huge profits nearer to completion. If these investors start to sell at no profit and even a negative return just to get out of the market (this is starting to happen now), then this could have a very negative impact on the completed property prices and rental yields over the next year.
> 
> This is a factor the UAE government have no control over.
> 
> There will always be optimists and pessimists in any market, and you can always put your own spin on any information form any source.
> 
> What you can’t deny is that the boom is over and Dubai PLC has now got to grow in a world that is shrinking, without the comfort of a regional money tree that has the world over a *barrel*.


Once again an excellent analysis. 

Regarding the following paragraph:

_The great unknown as far as I am concerned is how many people will run for cover. As we all know some investors have bought floors of buildings and multiple units as investments in the hope they can sell at huge profits nearer to completion. If these investors start to sell at no profit and even a negative return just to get out of the market (this is starting to happen now), then this could have a very negative impact on the completed property prices and rental yields over the next year._

My understanding is that most of these projects are either totally off-plan or in early stages of construction. They would take 2 to 4 years to complete. How would selling them at no profit have a negative impact on completed property? Could you elaborate, please. Thanks.


----------



## smussuw

IISinbadII said:


> Interesting. Emiratis would like to live in houses rather than apartments. And most real state projects are apartments. In case they do impliment this program, would they live in them or rent hem out?


Am not sure but I think that they were referring to Villas built by governmental owned companies and not apartments !


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> Am not sure but I think that they were referring to Villas built by governmental owned companies and not apartments !


You mean villas by Emaar, Nakheel and the like?


----------



## smussuw

^^ yes since they got the land for free.

Anyway, I wanted to discuss this in the context of Dubai being affected by the crisis ...........


----------



## High Times

IISinbadII said:


> Once again an excellent analysis.
> 
> Regarding the following paragraph:
> 
> _The great unknown as far as I am concerned is how many people will run for cover. As we all know some investors have bought floors of buildings and multiple units as investments in the hope they can sell at huge profits nearer to completion. If these investors start to sell at no profit and even a negative return just to get out of the market (this is starting to happen now), then this could have a very negative impact on the completed property prices and rental yields over the next year._
> 
> My understanding is that most of these projects are either totally off-plan or in early stages of construction. They would take 2 to 4 years to complete. How would selling them at no profit have a negative impact on completed property? Could you elaborate, please. Thanks.


Hi Sinbad,

I am referring to U/C projects such as Princess, Torch, Pinnacle and others due to complete in the next 2 years (Marina examples as this is my area of interest). I'm sure most districts are have similar examples.

Also we know that many completed Marina developments are being kept empty by speculators who have bought, but arn't renting (unfortunately we dont know the true figures).

My fear is that investors/speculators who have bought many units off plan (2/4 or even whole floors), will need to sell as they have overstretched themselves financialy and will need to reduce their borrowings.

This was what has happend in the US back in 2007, thats why the market crashed. This is what we are seeing now in the UK in 2008 some 12-18 months behined the US. 

The whole buy to let market in the UK has crashed and burned and many investors are all wanting to get out at the same time as they have overcommitted themsleves because it was so easy to do so. The result is completed property values are in freefall. No one wants to buy a property whilst prices are falling, wether they need a mortgage or not.

The Fly to Let market as it's known, was big business from 2004-2007 and many investors in Dubai are only there because they have borrowed to invest in a booming market, (sometimes funding deposits from releasing equity in their main home) and financing the rest through mortgages. 

I am talking about the British, Western Europeans and Russians. These groups make up a significant proportion of the "investors and speculators market" and these are the very people that are feeling the full effect of the credit crisis and will look to reduce their exposure to downside risk.

As i say Sinbad, this is the great unknown as far as i am concerned. As we dont know who owns what. 

This potential risk to downward pressure on prices due to the market being flooded with nearly complete, or indeed complete properties certainly isn't the majority of the overall market but i suspect it maybe in the 20% - 40% ballpark. If it's 20% then i think the current demand could soak it up without too much of a problem. If it is 40% then this could have a serious impact on demand both now and for the forseabale future.

This is my worry.


----------



## docc

I had a property transfered to my name today at Nakheel and it was a funny scenario.

When i went there in the morning to do it, i was required to pay 2% transfer fee and a 10% accelerated payment. Since there was a huge queue, i decided to come back in the afternoon. When i did come back later in the day, i was informed that Nakheel will no longer require a 2% transfer fee for any property (rule from land department) or an accelerated payment.

I'm assuming that the land department will now be taking the fees at the time of registration. Pretty cool though, since i effectively walked out from there paying nothing to have the property transfered to my name. All they did charge me was an AED 5000 administration fee.


----------



## laidback74

High Times said:


> I haven’t posted on here for a while as I am shocked at the total crap that has been posted lately. This thread has descended into almost childlike discussions and is in danger of losing all credibility.
> 
> Just my opinion
> 
> *laidback*.
> 
> As you have requested my opinion, here it is. Basically *back in July* a wrote a post that expressed my opinion of where the market was heading, much to some peoples amusement.
> 
> Go back and have a look here; http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=23345522&postcount=6523
> 
> If you read through the follow up posts for a page or so you will see that my opinion was in the minority at the time.
> 
> Recently this thread has turned into pages upon pages of drivel that has no factual information on it at all, it just reads like people trying to make themselves feel better.
> 
> When formers spend there time searching the internet looking for positive newspaper articles to post, so that everyone feels better about the market then it's all getting a bit desperate I think.
> 
> You all need to face facts. We are in a *GLOBAL RECESSION*, and will be for at least the next 12 months.
> 
> This means weaker economic output across the globe, reduced oil prices, reduced personal wealth and reduced consumer spending.
> 
> All of these factors are the very reasons why Dubai has seen such electrifying growth over recent years. Investors have invested because they have had surplus cash from their own base economies, as well as having easy cheap credit which has allowed for massive leveraging. This being part of the reason the credit markets have now frozen.
> 
> Over the coming months both corporate investors and private investors need to de-leverage. This will mean that funds will be returned to their origin (Brittan, Russia, Europe), in order to shore up corporate balance sheets and pay off personal borrowing.
> 
> The future of Dubai in my view is still a good one. Anyone who is investing for the long term 5-10 years will ride out any volatility in my opinion. The days of speculation are dead partly due to the government wanting to stop it, and partly due to the fact there are less speculators in a recessionary growth period.
> 
> Completed property should hold up well over the next year or so and so will the rental yields, so if your in this sector you have no need to worry.
> 
> New launches will be put on hold, maybe even cancelled as developers will have financing issues to contend with over the next year or so.
> 
> Overpriced areas will potentially see some downward pressure, undervalued areas will fare better.
> 
> The great unknown as far as I am concerned is how many people will run for cover. As we all know some investors have bought floors of buildings and multiple units as investments in the hope they can sell at huge profits nearer to completion. If these investors start to sell at no profit and even a negative return just to get out of the market (this is starting to happen now), then this could have a very negative impact on the completed property prices and rental yields over the next year.
> 
> This is a factor the UAE government have no control over.
> 
> There will always be optimists and pessimists in any market, and you can always put your own spin on any information form any source.
> 
> What you can’t deny is that the boom is over and Dubai PLC has now got to grow in a world that is shrinking, without the comfort of a regional money tree that has the world over a *barrel*.


Many thanks for your response High Times, definitely a very pragmatic set of points to chew over.


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> Hi Sinbad,
> 
> I am referring to U/C projects such as Princess, Torch, Pinnacle and others due to complete in the next 2 years (Marina examples as this is my area of interest). I'm sure most districts are have similar examples.
> 
> Also we know that many completed Marina developments are being kept empty by speculators who have bought, but arn't renting (unfortunately we dont know the true figures).
> 
> My fear is that investors/speculators who have bought many units off plan (2/4 or even whole floors), will need to sell as they have overstretched themselves financialy and will need to reduce their borrowings.
> 
> This was what has happend in the US back in 2007, thats why the market crashed. This is what we are seeing now in the UK in 2008 some 12-18 months behined the US.
> 
> The whole buy to let market in the UK has crashed and burned and many investors are all wanting to get out at the same time as they have overcommitted themsleves because it was so easy to do so. The result is completed property values are in freefall. No one wants to buy a property whilst prices are falling, wether they need a mortgage or not.
> 
> The Fly to Let market as it's known, was big business from 2004-2007 and many investors in Dubai are only there because they have borrowed to invest in a booming market, (sometimes funding deposits from releasing equity in their main home) and financing the rest through mortgages.
> 
> I am talking about the British, Western Europeans and Russians. These groups make up a significant proportion of the "investors and speculators market" and these are the very people that are feeling the full effect of the credit crisis and will look to reduce their exposure to downside risk.
> 
> As i say Sinbad, this is the great unknown as far as i am concerned. As we dont know who owns what.
> 
> This potential risk to downward pressure on prices due to the market being flooded with nearly complete, or indeed complete properties certainly isn't the majority of the overall market but i suspect it maybe in the 20% - 40% ballpark. If it's 20% then i think the current demand could soak it up without too much of a problem. If it is 40% then this could have a serious impact on demand both now and for the forseabale future.
> 
> This is my worry.


^^ Thanks for the explanation. And I totally agree with you.


----------



## Mistermark

Here's my $0.02 worth on this, for what it's worth...

I think there are three entirely different property markets in Dubai: off-plan, under construction and already completed. I'll deal with the last of these first. 

The purchase price of a completed property has already been fully funded, whether through the owner's income or assets or by means of borrowing. As long as rents hold up - and they seem to be increasing - and interest rates don't climb (one might speculate they should fall), I don't see these properties about to plummet in value, EXCEPT if their owners suddenly find themselves unable to meet their financial obligations because of redundancy, business failure or other misfortune.

The off-plan market is an altogether different proposition. For a start, properties here have hitherto been considerably more expensive than completed ones and those under construction, which as HT pointed out back in July, is an aberration. The percentage loan to value of Dubai mortgages has been cut, the Dirham is strong for most non-Emerati buyers, the law has been changed to restrict flipping and with more completed units (which have the advantage of rental income from day one) being available on the resale market due to the presence of some distressed sellers, it is unsurprising that the off-plan market is largely comatose right now.

Finally, the market for properties under construction. OK, a few people have bought on mortgages which roll up the staged payments until completion, but not many - so most buyers have to fund staged payments without the benefit of rental income. As before, for those not earning in Dirhams, the cost of doing this has risen. Some may also be suffering cashflow or net worth difficulties due to the state of most national economies. This could lead to quite a few of these being dumped onto the market, without the usual queue of buyers to take them on. 

The worst case scenario is that, in a country in which developers fund construction from buyers' staged payments, if a significant number of buyers default and can't be replaced, projects could stall. Much like a run on a bank, once rumours begin about a project being at risk of not completing, more buyers will choose to withhold their staged payments (in addition to those who physically can't pay), creating a self-fulfilling prophesy.

So, in conclusion:

1. I think there could be a small, short-term dip in the value of completed units, but as long as rents hold up and mortgage interest rates don't soar, I don't think it will be significant;

2. I wouldn't want to be a developer or agent wanting to market a new off-plan development right now. Also, there are rumours that some developers (Damac???) use the deposits from one project to fund the construction of an earlier one, having spent the staged payments of the clients on the original projects building up their land banks. If this is true, there could be a risk of one or two failures...

3. The fate of projects under construction could depend on the length and depth of the global downturn. Were I in a position of any influence at RERA, I'd be concentrating on ensuring that developers remained sufficiently solvent to complete the projects they'd started, if necessary by loaning them the funds to replace the staged payments of buyers in default, with them repaying these advances by selling or renting the units once completed.


----------



## Philippa C

smussuw said:


> Just to throw some heat, Dubai executive council is studying reserving a percentage of real state projects to the Emiratis, now while this seems like a good move to support Emiratis housing program many say that they are trying get rid of the bulk of properties they cannot sell. What do u think?


It's one way of "absorbing" excess stock. What would the rices be like and would the gov subsidise costs to meet market value? I recall you posted some info about villas for Emiratis a few months ago - they were similar to villas at the Arabian Ranches but were much cheaper.


----------



## rexdmx

docc said:


> I had a property transfered to my name today at Nakheel and it was a funny scenario.
> 
> When i went there in the morning to do it, i was required to pay 2% transfer fee and a 10% accelerated payment. Since there was a huge queue, i decided to come back in the afternoon. When i did come back later in the day, i was informed that Nakheel will no longer require a 2% transfer fee for any property (rule from land department) or an accelerated payment.
> 
> I'm assuming that the land department will now be taking the fees at the time of registration. Pretty cool though, since i effectively walked out from there paying nothing to have the property transfered to my name. All they did charge me was an AED 5000 administration fee.


received an sms with the same msg this morning


----------



## foxy

Mistermark said:


> Here's my $0.02 worth on this, for what it's worth...
> 
> I think there are three entirely different property markets in Dubai: off-plan, under construction and already completed. I'll deal with the last of these first.
> 
> The purchase price of a completed property has already been fully funded, whether through the owner's income or assets or by means of borrowing. As long as rents hold up - and they seem to be increasing - and interest rates don't climb (one might speculate they should fall), I don't see these properties about to plummet in value, EXCEPT if their owners suddenly find themselves unable to meet their financial obligations because of redundancy, business failure or other misfortune.
> 
> The off-plan market is an altogether different proposition. For a start, properties here have hitherto been considerably more expensive than completed ones and those under construction, which as HT pointed out back in July, is an aberration. The percentage loan to value of Dubai mortgages has been cut, the Dirham is strong for most non-Emerati buyers, the law has been changed to restrict flipping and with more completed units (which have the advantage of rental income from day one) being available on the resale market due to the presence of some distressed sellers, it is unsurprising that the off-plan market is largely comatose right now.
> 
> Finally, the market for properties under construction. OK, a few people have bought on mortgages which roll up the staged payments until completion, but not many - so most buyers have to fund staged payments without the benefit of rental income. As before, for those not earning in Dirhams, the cost of doing this has risen. Some may also be suffering cashflow or net worth difficulties due to the state of most national economies. This could lead to quite a few of these being dumped onto the market, without the usual queue of buyers to take them on.
> 
> The worst case scenario is that, in a country in which developers fund construction from buyers' staged payments, if a significant number of buyers default and can't be replaced, projects could stall. Much like a run on a bank, once rumours begin about a project being at risk of not completing, more buyers will choose to withhold their staged payments (in addition to those who physically can't pay), creating a self-fulfilling prophesy.
> 
> So, in conclusion:
> 
> 1. I think there could be a small, short-term dip in the value of completed units, but as long as rents hold up and mortgage interest rates don't soar, I don't think it will be significant;
> 
> 2. I wouldn't want to be a developer or agent wanting to market a new off-plan development right now. Also, there are rumours that some developers (Damac???) use the deposits from one project to fund the construction of an earlier one, having spent the staged payments of the clients on the original projects building up their land banks. If this is true, there could be a risk of one or two failures...
> 
> 3. The fate of projects under construction could depend on the length and depth of the global downturn. Were I in a position of any influence at RERA, I'd be concentrating on ensuring that developers remained sufficiently solvent to complete the projects they'd started, if necessary by loaning them the funds to replace the staged payments of buyers in default, with them repaying these advances by selling or renting the units once completed.


This is my analysis also. With the refinement that the price differential beween almost complete (likely of complete within 1 year) and completed will never get too large (say 20%). 

There is still cash out there looking for a return. All the cash being put into the system will eventually halt the deleveraging. Banks after all want to lend.


----------



## IISinbadII

Mistermark said:


> Here's my $0.02 worth on this, for what it's worth...
> 
> I think there are three entirely different property markets in Dubai: off-plan, under construction and already completed. I'll deal with the last of these first.
> 
> The purchase price of a completed property has already been fully funded, whether through the owner's income or assets or by means of borrowing. As long as rents hold up - and they seem to be increasing - and interest rates don't climb (one might speculate they should fall), I don't see these properties about to plummet in value, EXCEPT if their owners suddenly find themselves unable to meet their financial obligations because of redundancy, business failure or other misfortune.
> 
> The off-plan market is an altogether different proposition. For a start, properties here have hitherto been considerably more expensive than completed ones and those under construction, which as HT pointed out back in July, is an aberration. The percentage loan to value of Dubai mortgages has been cut, the Dirham is strong for most non-Emerati buyers, the law has been changed to restrict flipping and with more completed units (which have the advantage of rental income from day one) being available on the resale market due to the presence of some distressed sellers, it is unsurprising that the off-plan market is largely comatose right now.
> 
> Finally, the market for properties under construction. OK, a few people have bought on mortgages which roll up the staged payments until completion, but not many - so most buyers have to fund staged payments without the benefit of rental income. As before, for those not earning in Dirhams, the cost of doing this has risen. Some may also be suffering cashflow or net worth difficulties due to the state of most national economies. This could lead to quite a few of these being dumped onto the market, without the usual queue of buyers to take them on.
> 
> The worst case scenario is that, in a country in which developers fund construction from buyers' staged payments, if a significant number of buyers default and can't be replaced, projects could stall. Much like a run on a bank, once rumours begin about a project being at risk of not completing, more buyers will choose to withhold their staged payments (in addition to those who physically can't pay), creating a self-fulfilling prophesy.
> 
> So, in conclusion:
> 
> 1. I think there could be a small, short-term dip in the value of completed units, but as long as rents hold up and mortgage interest rates don't soar, I don't think it will be significant;
> 
> 2. I wouldn't want to be a developer or agent wanting to market a new off-plan development right now. Also, there are rumours that some developers (Damac???) use the deposits from one project to fund the construction of an earlier one, having spent the staged payments of the clients on the original projects building up their land banks. If this is true, there could be a risk of one or two failures...
> 
> 3. The fate of projects under construction could depend on the length and depth of the global downturn. Were I in a position of any influence at RERA, I'd be concentrating on ensuring that developers remained sufficiently solvent to complete the projects they'd started, if necessary by loaning them the funds to replace the staged payments of buyers in default, with them repaying these advances by selling or renting the units once completed.


^^ Bravo. Very well said. :applause:


----------



## afatatiana

I am sorry, if I dont understand something. But can somebody answer me why investors became now (in last 3 weeks )speculators?
I interested about some prices in Cityscape and price from bad speculators was 40% less, than from developer. Who is more speculator from your point of view? It seems to me that the most important speculators on the market were all these goverment developers and now they just put their foult on 
idiots, who support them so many years.
May be I dont know something in this game, because I am just a final user.


----------



## 234sale

FED RATE 1% 

1 Pound Sterling = 6.1AED


----------



## V Kapoor

*Mistermark!*

A very well articulated piece of analysis, Mistermark, I must say!

But this whole thing about property investment, seems quite intriguing if we look at Dubai market in particular, and UAE in general. Though we do make comparisions with US, Europe or even India, if you look at it closely, such comparisions seem irrelevant in the end. Though by way of sentiment, UAE property market has started to emulate the west and other economies in some way, but fundamentally there are a lot of differences. 

The biggest being, most of property in UAE has been purchased on cash basis. It is only in the last, say, about a year or, so people have started to look at mortgages as an option to create leveraged position to encash the boom. This certainly is a manifestation of increased risk appetite. Even here the levels of leveraging are not as high as, or not even anywhere close to what was seen in US or Europe. Even leveraged positions can be managed by the "so called speculators" if they are within limits, in the event of a down turn. With prices falling (or stagnating) currently, most speculators, who were looking to make quick gains, may actually change plans to hold on till actual completion, to avert the loss.....who knows. Defaults on instalments, by investors, in the end result, hurts the investors, the most.

Secondly, rentals in UAE have been like they are nowhere in the world. Early investors are, reaping by way of rent yields as high as 25% annually of their original investment, and that too in a short span of 2/3 years. The high rental income is an important risk mitigant, especially for those who invested early, in 2004/2005. The late entrants, like in the current year, are ofcourse at higher risk.

I agree with you, and it goes without saying, that property investment has highest safety in completed units, then in under construction, and least in off-plan.

All said, in conclusion, one could be a little concerned about the current situation and the future outlook, but surely there is no reason to be worried, or to panic.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Ok dont panic.

Thankshno:


----------



## IISinbadII

I am seeing that the advertised prices for completed units at some locations have actually raised in the past week........so where is the correction?


----------



## Mavekris

^^I am advertising my unit @1700 but ready to get rid @1450.

Does this mean that there is no correction.:lol:


----------



## 234sale

Interest Rate will go to 0.5%

I expect we will see mortgages in Dubai at 5% soon with 20% min equity.


----------



## IISinbadII

Mavekris said:


> ^^I am advertising my unit @1700 but ready to get rid @1450.
> 
> Does this mean that there is no correction.:lol:


^^ If its a ready unit, why don't you put it out on rent.


----------



## tinaweb

We have a mortgage with ADCB and had a text message from them on Monday saying they're raising their interest rate by 1% !!


----------



## V Kapoor

Mavekris said:


> ^^I am advertising my unit @1700 but ready to get rid @1450.
> 
> Does this mean that there is no correction.:lol:


The likes of Mavekris seem to have have over stepped......
....and now they seem to be in panic!!

We don't even know the details of the property in question!!
..... and a 15 to 20 percent downside!


----------



## makerian

234sale said:


> Interest Rate will go to 0.5%
> 
> I expect we will see mortgages in Dubai at 5% soon with 20% min equity.


that would be nice but highly improbable. While rates in the US are being lowered, EIBOR does not seem to be tracking them like before. You can get 4.5% pa for a one month fixed depoist in Dubai and that's only a shelf rate. Mortgage rates have increased and are unlikely to fall as long as EIBOR remains this high.


----------



## V Kapoor

makerian said:


> that would be nice but highly improbable. While rates in the US are being lowered, EIBOR does not seem to be tracking them like before. You can get 4.5% pa for a one month fixed depoist in Dubai and that's only a shelf rate. Mortgage rates have increased and are unlikely to fall as long as EIBOR remains this high.


Is it that the investors from US have descended on UAE...... and looking for similar terms.......


----------



## Mavekris

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ If its a ready unit, why don't you put it out on rent.


^^I will keep it empty for 6 to 7 months but will not rent.

Bcoz as discussed it's hard to sell rented property.


----------



## Mavekris

V Kapoor said:


> The likes of Mavekris seem to have have over stepped......
> ....and now they seem to be in panic!!
> 
> We don't even know the details of the property in question!!
> ..... and a 15 to 20 percent downside!


^^Property is located in JLT, Project from Stargiga.

After reading yesterday's post from HIGH TIMES i thought formers will stop talking crap.

But looks like it is not going to stop.


----------



## IISinbadII

tinaweb said:


> We have a mortgage with ADCB and had a text message from them on Monday saying they're raising their interest rate by 1% !!


Don't they have fixed rate mortgages in Dubai?


----------



## IISinbadII

Mavekris said:


> ^^I will keep it empty for 6 to 7 months but will not rent.
> 
> Bcoz as discussed it's hard to sell rented property.


Thats exactly why they need to change rent laws. :bash:


----------



## smussuw

^^ or maybe they should issue a new law that force landlords to occupy their properties


----------



## Mavekris

^^I am already living my own apartment.

I want to have one more wife. But with last year's increment of 500 dirhams, i cannot afford it :lol:


----------



## IISinbadII

*smussuw*, its coming sooner than we expected. Get ready for plan B.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

IISinbadII said:


> Don't they have fixed rate mortgages in Dubai?


Majority of mortgages are variable from what I gather...


----------



## 234sale

As I said before,, Fed Rate is widely expect to be 0.5% in one month letting the Americans have a good Capitalistic Christmas by letting them Borrow, Borrow, Borrow.

Positive effect will happen here as Mortgage rates may come down to 4-5%..

But the UAE central bank doesn't want to Fuel a boom so expect a 20-30% min deposit

1M AED will eventually cost 6,500 a month on a 25year repayment mortgage.


----------



## komi

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ How do you find deals and distress sales?


Try searching GNADS using "distress" as keyword. 64 hits today.


----------



## noir-dresses

read this

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/10/Pages/10302008_04f815aff77a4a00b9620d22485bbe50.aspx

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/10/Pages/10302008_f55ca3da3ea94003a4c0cfcc14919dbe.aspx


----------



## IISinbadII

komi said:


> Try searching GNADS using "distress" as keyword. 64 hits today.


Thanks komi.


----------



## AppleMac

komi said:


> Try searching GNADS using "distress" as keyword. 64 hits today.


'distress' doesn't mean that prices are any cheaper than any other unit. 

I have yet to see what I would call a 'bargain' due to a 'distress' sale


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Yeah, today only 8 new distress sale adds. And prices are not convincing. hno: 

I will be convinced when the paper is full of distress sales or the prices get really low. Which means at this point there little or no panic in the market.

Interesting read:

*Brushing off property pessimism*

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/534518-brushing-off-property-pessimism


----------



## Philippa C

smussuw said:


> ^^ or maybe they should issue a new law that force landlords to occupy their properties


You can't expect people to invest here and then dictate what they do with their property. Like I said already, we have property sitting empty and we are missing out on rent as we intend to sell some of them soon. With a tenant in place, end users would not be interested as they would be unable to occupy the property. Investors are not interested in completed property as the rents though good are running at about 5% return on selling price - at least in our case.

Also, lots of people criticise "greedy" landlords but if people had not bought in the early launches (when there were no clear laws on freehold) where would most expats be living? There's a lot of people renting in Emaar/Nakheel developments. So I think landlords/investors should be given a break - they are a vital part of Dubai's property equation.


----------



## noir-dresses

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Yeah, today only 8 new distress sale adds. And prices are not convincing. hno:
> 
> I will be convinced when the paper is full of distress sales or the prices get really low. Which means at this point there little or no panic in the market.
> 
> Interesting read:
> 
> *Brushing off property pessimism*
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/534518-brushing-off-property-pessimism



Good article Sinbad, good to see cool head's with alot of insight of Dubai's realestate market


----------



## jixline

^^ i like the comments more


----------



## skdubai

^^ lol yea, it makes sense, i see it every day.. Real estate guys keep claiming that loads of people are coming in and the demand will sustain itself, but no body actually digs in and looks at how many of these people are labourers attracted by the construction boom. They keep saying that the economy is booming, but fail to notice that it is a ripple effect from the construction boom. I am very worried about the current trend in the market and the inability of some to grasp the fact that, even if tomorrow is not the day, we do have a bubble which will eventually collapse, it is a matter of when and not if!!


----------



## rexdmx

^^ did you read the comments below


----------



## smussuw

Philippa C said:


> *You can't expect people to invest here and then dictate what they do with their property.* Like I said already, we have property sitting empty and we are missing out on rent as we intend to sell some of them soon. With a tenant in place, end users would not be interested as they would be unable to occupy the property. Investors are not interested in completed property as the rents though good are running at about 5% return on selling price - at least in our case.


That would be a dream coming true ! :happy:

I think u should remember what their buying price was and compare it to the current rent, this would give a more realistic comparison to show how greedy landlords are 



Philippa C said:


> Also, lots of people criticise "greedy" landlords but if people had not bought in the early launches (when there were no clear laws on freehold) where would most expats be living? There's a lot of people renting in Emaar/Nakheel developments. So I think landlords/investors should be given a break - they are a vital part of Dubai's property equation.


We can give a different analysis to the situation and it would also result in calling them greedy landlords so don't _if_ me ! :tongue:


----------



## Philippa C

I think u should remember what their buying price was and compare it to the current rent, this would give a more realistic comparison to show how greedy landlords are 

Yes, but when you are calculating the rate of return you have to consider the market price. So, an investor is not likey to buy our villa as the rent he can earn on it is not a good investment. For example if the villa costs 7 million even a rent of 450K a year is not a good return.


----------



## Philippa C

Actually, today I'm even feeling a bit positive about the effect of speculators in getting the Dubai real estate show on the road. We did not buy right at the beginning, for the record, but it took guts and nerve for people to put money up to buy property in the early days when there were no laws regarding freehold and banks were not even giving mortgages. A certain amount of speculator activity is required to get a project moving. No one is forced to buy at silly prices from speculators. Anyone can go and queue for hours to be one of the first at a launch and get good units - I know people who queued all night to get Remraams.


----------



## foxy

komi said:


> Try searching GNADS using "distress" as keyword. 64 hits today.


Prices don't look distressed. It's cazy they are so high! Maybe its a sales gimmick.


----------



## Opus 2009

^^Also the freehold section of GN had a number of "price reduced ads". I saw a PJ Garden Home between numbers 15 & 20 listed for just under 12M. Edwards & Towers mentioned that the PJA villas that are being sold by as distress sales are going for 85% premium. The situation is one to sit out, and some great bargains to be had.


----------



## kano

^^^ Are all these distress sales really " distress" and reduced.?


----------



## smussuw

^^ The prices increase by like 10-20% every month from what I've seen and when there is one which is 5% less but still 400% more than their original price they call it a bargains :laugh:


----------



## kano

^^^ thats what i thought? i have seen some you cant really call "distress" or bargains and yet they call them distress sales.


----------



## nisha

High Times said:


> I hear all the time that the Government in Dubai is able to price fix.
> [/B]


This is a big myth, perpetuated by whom, I don't know. 




High Times said:


> This could be very costly indeed. All to preserve Dubai PLC’s ‘investors haven’ reputation.
> [/B]


Try VERY costly and so unaffordable that it is impossible. So Nakheel et al (who have BILLIONS of $$$ in loans to repay) will keep properties unsold/release in phases just to support investors/prices - and screw up their cash flows at a time when liquidity is so scarce??!!!!

This is a global crisis, and Dubai is now affected because no one will lend anymore. Very very tough times ahead.......


----------



## nisha

234sale said:


> Interest Rate will go to 0.5%
> 
> I expect we will see mortgages in Dubai at 5% soon with 20% min equity.


Prices recently adjusted - I know many people now paying 8.6% p.a. 

EIBOR is artificially low. Banks are now looking to price their assets based on what they are paying depositors (between 6 and 7% on AED p.a.)....so one has to expect a huge increase in mortgage rates. The days of low rates are truly well behind us...


----------



## AltinD

234sale said:


> Interest Rate will go to 0.5%
> 
> I expect we will see mortgages in Dubai at 5% soon with 20% min equity.


UAE Central Bank for the first time decided NOT to follow the US Feds with a rate cut.


----------



## Spurs

smussuw said:


> ^^ The prices increase by like 10-20% every month from what I've seen and when there is one which is 5% less but still 400% more than their original price they call it a bargains :laugh:


People who bought PJA garden homes at 100%+ capital growth and are now facing the prospect that they are worth less are desperate sellers. My point being not all people bought direct from the developer.


----------



## smussuw

AltinD said:


> UAE Central Bank for the first time decided NOT to follow the US Feds with a rate cut.


interesting, I didn't follow that, but shouldn't they be forced to, to maintain the dollar peg? Am no expert but this is what I understood !


----------



## Richard Head

Opus 2009 said:


> Edwards & Towers mentioned that the PJA villas that are being sold by as distress sales are going for 85% premium.


85% on the original PJA asking price of 2.86m is *5.29m*. Edwards and Towers have 26 of these on their website today, and the cheapest is *7.49m*. Someone is pulling your chain. Majority are in the 8-9m price range.


----------



## nisha

smussuw said:


> interesting, I didn't follow that, but shouldn't they be forced to, to maintain the dollar peg? Am no expert but this is what I understood !



OK let me explain. 1 month EIBOR is around 4.69% and 1 month LIBOR is around 3.12%. This is before the Fed cut. There is a considerable interest rate variance. So theoretically, one can borrow in Dollars at LIBOR, convert to Dirham and place in a Dirham deposit. But this is not happening because no one is really lending at LIBOR at all, given the liquidity problem AND risk aversion. It is LIBOR plus 200-300 bps if at all...

So it really makes no difference any more if the UAECB cuts rates or not. EIBOR is anyway higher, and frankly EIBOR is artificially low too (there is no inter bank lending at all and deposit rates have gone through the roof)


----------



## IISinbadII

Does anyone know the following:

How much has the UAE government borrowed for its development and mega projects. 

How about the big developers Emaar, Nakheel and DP? Do they relay on money generated from sales or are they relying on borrowed money. 

If they have borrowed, who are the lenders. UAE Government, GCC sovereign funds or international institutions? 

In other words how healthy and independent is the UAE economy? Thanks.


----------



## AltinD

^^ International institutions and Local banks mostly. Islamic bonds (sukuk) are used also.


----------



## nisha

I am paranoid about posting such details....anyway your best source would be bloomberg. Ask Docc to email it to you - have sent him the links.


----------



## smussuw

^^ I think it was already posted and two Dubai officials have responded to what have been said


----------



## komi

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Yeah, today only 8 new distress sale adds. And prices are not convincing. hno:
> 
> I will be convinced when the paper is full of distress sales or the prices get really low. Which means at this point there little or no panic in the market.
> 
> Interesting read:
> 
> *Brushing off property pessimism*
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/534518-brushing-off-property-pessimism


Just trying to find a way to distract you from the forum for a while. So much activity recently, I can't keep up. Still on page 424.

OK, check this out (got it by email):
-----------
Alineah.com, online web portal in the Dubai real estate industry will not support investors who are publishing bullish excessive prices over its portal . 

The rules and regulations of the property portal have set up a new department who will review all advertisment from the all the users, brokers, developers and especially investors who are announcing high price which do not reflect the market trends.
Alineah.com, have noticed that many investors are intenting to use the portal to display at a too higher price, due to the large exposure of the portal on the web for the regional industry in the real estate. The control unit of Alineah.com will revoque those ones who do not follow the market trends and who false the auto generated market analysis report from the portal.
Investors and speculators will follow the market trends who should be established on the common sense of growth in the market.
Users which try to submit property at a too higher price will not be allowed to make their property visible to the public.
It is for the good sense of ethic that the portal will not allow the practice of such users to benefit from the portal with its quality and service. 
According to the CEO , Djamel AMALOU : “Market will sustain with the appreciation of the control unit for the good of every one.There is no way that alineah.com will sustain such activity which does not reflect the reality trend of the real estate industry with such independant property estimation".

The number of visits to the portal is appriciating dramatically and gaining confidence with the public by disclosing other comparable price as statitical graph for each property with the trends of the publishers. Potential buyers are appreciating the control unit with its efforts to not reach the ridicul price display by other platform.

Real estate market is not volatile as much the stock market and should follow the paths of the news but the paths of the realisation of the development.

Sincerly,

Alineah.com

Where investment property in the UAE can be appreciated in time. 
----------


----------



## IISinbadII

AltinD said:


> ^^ International institutions and Local banks mostly. Islamic bonds (sukuk) are used also.


^^ Thanks.



smussuw said:


> ^^ I think it was already posted and two Dubai officials have responded to what have been said


Could you point us where. Thanks.


----------



## Richard Head

^^ I realise we are a multicultural society, where English is not necessarily the first language for all. Nevertheless, how would any self-respecting media organisation allow someone to publish an article like that with at least 20 spelling and grammatical errors. It has absolutely no credibility. People expect some kind of basic intelligence from what they read before they will believe anything that's being said. :bash::bash::bash:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

AMEInfo using this thread for inspiration again 



> A lot of products that are actually ready are being kept off the market because the landlords don't want to be tied into this sort of deal, which in turn pushes rents up because it creates a shortage in the market,.'


http://www.ameinfo.com/173686.html


----------



## AltinD

Richard Head said:


> ^^ I realise we are a multicultural society, where English is not necessarily the first language for all. Nevertheless, how would any self-respecting media organisation allow someone to publish an article like that with at least 20 spelling and grammatical errors. It has absolutely no credibility. People expect some kind of basic intelligence from what they read before they will believe anything that's being said. :bash::bash::bash:


Were you effected?


On the other hand, you did way better: Just 2 spelling mistakes.


----------



## Doctor_UK

*letter from nakheel*

good news for everyone... letter from nakheel... hope other developers will soon follow 

''Dear All,

Effective immediately, Nakheel Resale Fee Structure has been amended as follows: 

1. Resale Commission Fee of 2% has been abolished and replaced with a AED 5,000/- flat Administrative Fee. 

2. Accelerated fees stopped for all projects 

3. Shoreline resales (Secondary Market) will take place with the payment of AED5,000/- Admin Fee and 1% Land Department Fee from the current market value. 

Please note that existing resale process has not changed. Kindly see the attached updated fact sheets for your information and use. 

Kind regards,''





...


----------



## eddy123

*about distress sales*

This is an email I received yesterday, is it a distress sale? I just think that some agents are trying to make use of the current bad financial situation by pretending the property is now a bargain. Less than two years ago I was offered a Garden Home on the Palm Jumeirah for 7M AED. Let me see these sales prices back to understand that this is a stress sale.

_*If you have contacted me in the past or thought about contacting me about buying either a signature or garden villa on Palm Island Jumeirah and you didn’t or the prices moved up too fast then now is the time to talk. With the global uncertainty of the markets and loses suffered in the stock markets both in the UAE and overseas many investors are selling their villas to raise capital. Prices have not been this low for two years. Many villas are being sold with substantial betterment and even fully furnished.

The fact that the banks are not easily giving loans has further contributed to the downward pressure on the prices. If you have cash and are ready move then now is the time.

Contact me straight away. For cash buyers I have for example a high number, fully furnished signature villa that would have been 33 million AED this spring, which can be bought now for just 25 million AED. I also have low number villas down to 21 million.

Likewise I have a garden villa that was 17.5 million and now can be bought for 14.5 million. I have low number villas down to 12 million.

I have many more great villas that have never been on the market before.

It is an amazing opportunity to get a dream villa on the palm.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely*_


----------



## smussuw

^^ isn't it obvious that they are taking an advantage of the situation? :sly:


----------



## makerian

Ramin777 said:


> Prices in Discovery Gardens have actually gone up since the past 4 weeks!


I don't know where you're seeing your prices but if its GNADS4U then most of us agree that its a poor source to gauge actual prices at which property is being traded. 

My own experience with Discovery Gardens is that 4 weeks ago, buyers were ready to purchase my Studios at 725K net to me. Today they aren't ready to buy at 700K. Multiple brokers I called have told me that buyers are scared at this point. Some were optimistic that this would change in a few weeks.


----------



## High Times

larven said:


> I hear more and more Dubai projects are being shelved or put on ice....the tipping point is coming if it hasn't come already. Many people are going to get badly burnt.





docc said:


> Which ones? Name three


Doc, sorry to blur those rose coloured specs of yours, but sooner or later your going to have to wake up from your dream buddy. 

*Nakheel are scaling back many projects as we speak, the most significant being Palm Deira.*



THE DUBAI GUYS said:


> Published: 31 October 2008 20:44 GMT Author: Colin Foreman More by this Author Last Updated: 31 October 2008 20:44
> 
> *Other Nakheel projects have been affected by the global credit crisis. Work on its multi-billion dollar Palm Deira project has been scaled back, and it is now unclear what its development strategy across its $100bn-plus portfolio will be in the coming months.*
> 
> http://www.meed.com/news/2008/10/na..._to_submit_plans_for_tall_tower_in_dubai.html
> 
> R


Doc, Your begining to sound like the Iraqi minister for information, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, as he declares *"The Americans are not coming"* in front of a parade of US military hardware entering Iraq.


----------



## first timer

*WELL SAID Dirty Harry & High Times*

The day dreamers will never listen but deep down they know whats happening and half will be trying to sell as we speak

Your ^^ posts are spot on, I thought I was the only one who could see what is happening

The trouble is your posts will probally be deleted as some of the moderators dont like to hear these facts and simply delete.

It wont be long and the day dreamers will soon have their heads out of the clouds and probally very near the gutter.

Dubai has simply got too greedy too quickly

All they talk about is price and rent increases and now they have out priced themselves which is a shame. GREED

There are plenty of places in the world that companys can set up and they dont need to be dictated to by Dubai and greedy wanna be investors

There is no law saying that Landlords have to take 12 months rent in advance.
I would suggest monthly rent with a 3 month bond.

Its all going to come to a stop and will be a buyers and renters market

Dubai is an OK place but far too over rated and better places to live in the world in my opinion

Dont say I never told you so
:lol:


----------



## AppleMac

dirtyharry1 said:


> however 20-30% cheaper than before Ramadan according to Betterhomes.


Has anyone around here actually been able to buy a *completed* property at one of these 'distress' sale prices?

I see a lot of rumour and 'he said - she said' but have not seen anyone who has actually been able to grab a real bargain yet.


----------



## Arno Salzl

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ The Shaikhs are out to rescue foreign banks, who thinks they would let their own economy and property crash?



This is a good point, and historically not completely baseless. In 1990, the late Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan rescued to infamous BCCI. Giving locals the confidence that rulers would intervene to cover speculation losses.

But times have changed. At the peak of the stock market bubble, by the end of 2005, investors were confident that the Sheikhs (and more particularly the Nahyan family) would never allow the market to go burst since “it was a tool to improve the life of the UAE citizens”. And, indeed, when the stocks began to fall, the major Abu Dhabi banks have been ordered to step in. They did it … just for one week. Since its peak, the DFM has lost more than 70%. And many UAE investors have not yet recovered from their losses.

The story of the Emaar share is definitely the most interesting, since it is the star and the heavy weight, in volume and liquidity, of the UAE stock markets. From January 2006 till now, the share has dropped from 55 to 5,50 AED.

Emaar has frequently (and as recently as last month) announced a buy back of its shares to sustain the market, but they never seriously did it. Because they don’t have the cash? Or they feel that the price is still too high? Or both? One thing is sure: investors expect huge losses from the Burj Dubai operations. And they do not believe the valuation of the landbank, an important part of Emaar’s assets. 

In May 2008 (in that time, the Emaar share was at 15) I did a tour of the lands owned by Emaar (Bawadi, Lissaili, etc.) with a international specialist in land valuation, sent by a investment fund. Lost in the sheer immensity of the beautiful Dubai desert, he started to laugh about the valuation as per balance sheet. I argued that Arabian Ranches where exactly like that in 2003, but lacked to persuade him. You can successfully build 10,000 or even 50,000 villas at 1 million US$, he said, but never 300,000, no way. They is no market in the world for that.

Anyway, I would not reckon on an intervention from the Dubai government. It has for the moment enough problems to found its huge acquisitions. And a serious drop in the housing prices would please the big families (the traditional power base of the Maktoums), facing a growing dissatisfaction of the middle management in their companies here. hno:


----------



## docc

High Times,

I don't appreciate the comparison. I'm going to leave it at that.


----------



## noir-dresses

looking good

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Economy/10256099.html


----------



## Spurs

High Times said:


> Doc, sorry to blur those rose coloured specs of yours, but sooner or later your going to have to wake up from your dream buddy.
> 
> *Nakheel are scaling back many projects as we speak, the most significant being Palm Deira.*
> 
> 
> 
> Doc, Your begining to sound like the Iraqi minister for information, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, as he declares *"The Americans are not coming"* in front of a parade of US military hardware entering Iraq.



Hilarious :lol:


----------



## noir-dresses

a good read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation


----------



## noir-dresses

check this out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia


----------



## IISinbadII

*first timer*, instead of repeatedly telling that a crash is coming in 12 months, would it not be better for you to tell us how to handle it? I think such a positive input from you would contribute much more to this forum.


----------



## noir-dresses

read clearly, assess, compare, so give it a rest, dubai is fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_bubble


----------



## Hanna

IISinbadII said:


> *first timer*, instead of repeatedly telling that a crash is coming in 12 months, would it not be better for you to tell us how to handle it? I think such a positive input from you would contribute much more to this forum.


Hi IISinbadII


I AGREE WITH YOU 

If he is that good at predictions I wish he could tell me what will win the 
13:05 at Ascot today LOL :cheers:


----------



## skdubai

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ The Shaikhs are out to rescue foreign banks, who thinks they would let their own economy and property crash?


I would think if ever the sheikh wanted to spend the money to save someone, it would be banks and other institutions who they can save.... they cannot however spend sooo much cash to save the Real estate SECTOR... that would be foolish waste of money, because once the rescue package is done, then the problem of over supply/investor confidence will remain and the we go back to square one!


----------



## HappyLarry

Hanna said:


> Hi IISinbadII
> 
> 
> I AGREE WITH YOU
> 
> If he is that good at predictions I wish he could tell me what will win the
> 13:05 at Ascot today LOL :cheers:


The winner will be a horse. I hope that helps.


----------



## AppleMac

first timer said:


> There are plenty of places in the world that companys can set up and they dont need to be dictated to by Dubai and greedy wanna be investors


But if they need to be in the Middle East where else are they going to go? - Abu Dhabi?, Doha?, Bahrain?, Riyadh?, Kuwait?, - from what I read they all have the same problems with property price inflation as Dubai.


----------



## Tom_Green

Question to the investors.
Do you work in Dubai? Do you have enough money to not work but want to stay in Dubai? Do you invest to just make money and want to move back to your home country?

If everyboddy say it`s the last i see a big crash coming.


----------



## noir-dresses

Tom_Green said:


> Question to the investors.
> Do you work in Dubai? Do you have enough money to not work but want to stay in Dubai? Do you invest to just make money and want to move back to your home country?
> 
> If everyboddy say it`s the last i see a big crash coming.


Do you live in Dubai ? - No, will go frequently when apartment is done very soon
Do you have enough money to not work but want to stay in Dubai ? - I live in Canada, and Croatia. My work is in Croatia, so don't need to work in Dubai. 
Do you invest to just make money and want to move back to your home country ? No, bought in Dubai cause I love it there, bought in cash, no debt's, no stress. Already live in my home country's, actually enjoying the view of the Adriatic from my villa in Croatia.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Tom, I am investing for ther long term 12 - 15 years maybe - I will rent out on completion to provide rental accomodation and enjoy a high rental yield. I have a mortgage on the property (LPP) which I can afford to pay, the global crisis does not affect my ability to pay in any way.


----------



## mackie1964

One is holiday home and the others to pay for it via a rental income. Similar to Steve’s situation, the turndown does not impact on my long term plan (a holiday home paid for and available to ourselves, family and friends to use). :cheers:

Still looking for that bargain :cheers:

Originally planned to move with the family to Dubai as I can work from anywhere but I have now shelved this option. It’s not as attractive as it firstly appeared after doing the sums.

Without boring you with the details, Dubai is OK for big business. For a small business, even for a Brit and unless you are prepared to bend over and let a local rape you, it will not work, especially for our type of business. It works much better being protected by our laws 

We still love the place and will always do :cheers:


----------



## Arno Salzl

Do I live in Dubai: Yes, since 1998. And I like it: the desert, the sea, the trips to Oman. Great place to work.
Do you have enough money to not work but want to stay in Dubai? No. But later maybe inch’allah.
Do you invest to just make money and want to move back to your home country? Bought a villa which is rented now at a relatively low yield, but to very good tenants. I could move in later. (I live now in Jumeirah, rental paid by the company).


----------



## rexdmx

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Nice. According to this formula many properties are rightly valued in Marina and undervalued in Discovery Gardens!
> 
> Thats good news, but this is based on current rents. And some say rents are high and going even higher. Which comes down to supply and demand. Supply side is limited due to construction delays, etc and no surplus expected for the next few years. So now we are left with the demand.
> 
> If businesses continue to flourish in Dubai, infrastructure and mega projects keep going as planned demand will stay high. Otherwise rents would fall and we are in trouble!


this formula is always misunderstood.. it can't tell u much on its own...


----------



## eddy123

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Nice. According to this formula many properties are rightly valued in Marina and undervalued in Discovery Gardens!



Discovery undervalued ???:bash: 

http://www.gowealthy.com/gowealthy/wcms/en/home/real-estate/property-digest/october/Dubai-property-sector-remains--1225346516610.html


----------



## noir-dresses

compared to what it's going to be worth when NHT start's rising, definately.

Speculation will never steal our thunder !!!!!

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:


----------



## noir-dresses

strong fundementals

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1022008_d8d1fbfb4c744feba82b691b8563cca2.aspx
http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/IMFneedshundredsofbillionsofdollars.aspx


----------



## BenjiDXB

Prices for completed properties...JBR...

I just saw on the web site of one of the major property agents in Dubai that you can now get a 2 BR with partial sea view on the 16th floor of Rimal 1 in Jumeirah Beach Residence (JBR) for AED 2,346,000 which is the price you would probably have paid in early 2008...this flat is 1332 sq ft in size and so the price per sq ft is AED 1,761...alineah.com mentions a price of a little more than AED 2,200 as valid in JBR...so I guess prices for completed properties are coming down, depending on how urgently people want to sell...I imagine that the majority of people who do not absolutely HAVE to sell now, will hold on to their properties in these times...

Nevertheless: I checked the same website a week ago, to see how many 2 BR flats in JBR were available, and found that there 29 of them. Today there were 34...a couple of months ago there were 10 or 12...


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ What is the price of a 2 BR with full sea view today and what was it before (JBR)?


----------



## amplesou

*activety "?*

thanks mikeyk07 i have many more pics that i may post in the next week or so ,


----------



## Morten_Denmark

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ What is the price of a 2 BR with full sea view today and what was it before (JBR)?


Between 3000 and 2700 psf some monnths ago - I dont know what it is today - not so many of these for sale


----------



## eddy123

*Land sales up? misleading!*



> Weekly Real Estate Sales in Dubai (Oct 26 - 30, 2008): AED 595 mn
> / USD 162 mn
> In the month of October, the number of land sales in Dubai was highest in Arabian Ranches (77), followed by Emirates Hills Third (66). The total value of land transactions in the emirate during the same period was highest at Emirates Hills Third (AED 286,419,414). According to Sultan Butti bin Mijrin, Director General, Dubai Land Department, land transactions in the emirate are expected to scale AED 300 billion by 2008 end, compared with AED 175 billion in 2007. He said: “"The department has registered Dh228bn worth of transactions since the beginning of 2008 until October 12, a record growth of 115 per cent compared with the same period in 2007." Bin Mijrin also rules out any ill-effect on the sales in the near future. This underscores the steadfast faith and optimism in the economic structure of Dubai, in spite of the unpredictability of international markets.
> 
> Date *Value of Sales (in AED)* *--Value of Sales (in USD) *
> *26/10/2008* 69,232,663 --18,813,223
> *27/10/2008* 138,612,745 --37,666,506
> *28/10/2008* 91,068,691 --24,746,926
> *29/10/2008* 72,729,925 --19,763,567
> *30/10/2008* 223,707,257* --60,790,015*
> Total 595,351,281 --161,780,239
> 
> 
> 
> (Source : Dubai Land Department *Figures apply to transactions registered with Dubai Land Department till 12.00 pm on Oct 30, 2008)


I don't believe these are all new land sales. Is there any land still available in the Emirates hills or Arabian Ranches? The land was sold 4-5 years ago, why this propaganda? It must be old properties which hasn't been registered at the Dubai Land Department yet, specially for Nakheel and Emaar projects which didn't need it, in the beginning.

Like my 4-5 years old property in the Meadows hasn't been registered yet, noboby asked me.

By the way what happened on Thursday, people went out shopping?


----------



## eddy123

BenjiDXB said:


> Prices for completed properties...JBR...
> 
> partial sea view


Partial sea view means......you walk to the balcony, stick your neck out as you can....do you see that little blue? That's the sea!


----------



## smussuw

So when do u think I can buy a 3br villa in the Springs for AED 700,000?


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> So when do u think I can buy a 3br villa in the Springs for AED 700,000?


^^ As early as tonight, in your dream! :lol:


----------



## 234sale

smussuw,, when you can build one for 500,000.

I used to have a 2E its orginial price was 900,000 way back in 2004, when most people had not heard of Dubai.

I expect the construction cost was 175AED sqft
Land Cost 100AED sqft

With Emaar pocketing 65AED sqft as profit.

I sold at 2,7M which I thought was expensive,, same villa today is for sale for 3,7M.

I dont think we will ever see land prices back to under 200AED sqft for villas.
But a constrction cost may go as low as 350AED sqft
Lets say 130AED for profit for the developer..

It could go as low for 1,836,000 AED,, but I cant see it happening.


----------



## smussuw

^^ I don't think that will happen either unless something really bad happened, am just dreaming. In the UAE Securities Market forum they were talking about 310AED sqft construction cost lowering from 550AED sqft in Dubai.

http://uaesm.maktoob.com/vb/post2512731-9/
http://uaesm.maktoob.com/vb/post2513179-13/


----------



## 234sale

My villa was an Arabtec one,, hence why I put 350.

It may be possible to get a unknown contractor to do it for 310,, but I would worry about construction.. 

Also many contractors are scared that prices could go up quickly and are putting cost acceleration clauses into contracts.

I would expect a increase in costs as quality of build may improve. Such as the thermal qualities would be improved in any new villa. The walls of my villa were always hot to touch on the sun facing wall.


----------



## davidbht

I bought an appartment off DAMAC off Plan in FEB 2007 paid 40% in June 2008 Damac offered refund Lotus2 La Res Business Bay.Damac said they need RERA to approve REFUND we are now in November still waiting for refund.
Why do RERA have to approve refund,am i being told the truth by Damac, how do i get my money back.


----------



## Arno Salzl

Philippa C said:


> After reaching that high, Emaar shares were split so the drop in share price was not from 55 to 5 but rather from about 25 to 5.50 - still bad but not so bad. I bought some at 21.90! Financial analysts have advised for the last 2 years that Emaar shares are undervalued. Now is probably a good time to buy shares when they are so low.


You totally right. Sorry for that. :sleepy:

Buying now? From this tread: http://www.dubaisharetalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=8245&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25: 

"Emaar sold their shares , at the last rights issue, for 1dhm + 4dhm premium. Now they might buy those shares back after 2 years at under 5dhms. So effectively it means that Emaar have had an interest free loan for that period. Emaar ceo must be smiling while we are all crying. 

If Emaar waits a little longer then they might even get the shares closer to 4.50. So why should they buy now?"


----------



## Wannaberich

Sorry Naukhez,dont have any more recent pics.
Waiting for Imre to take some more.Also checked the developers website and the pics are a few months old.
See for yourself www.manal-me.com
Yes there would have been progress since August as this project is under construction.
Thats the most important point.
Email Al Manal and ask them how far there are and maybe they could email you some more recents pics.
Good luck.


----------



## Nahida

*Giovanni Boutique*

Did you get a chance to take a picture for Giovanni Boutique Suites?? No news from them. We heard they finished piling, but we dont have any updates


----------



## Dubai_Steve

diveksa said:


> Just like other investments, home prices also can be evaluated upon the basis of a P/E Ratio.
> A P/E (or Price/Earnings) ratio is the ratio of the price of an investment divided by its potential earnings. Just as for stocks and other investments, there are 'equilibrium' PE Ratios for homes - the magic number is around 15. A PE Ratio of 15 is about the historically correct price for real estate in a normal market. When the bubble bursts, the ratios will go below this for a time and eventually come back to equilibrium.
> 
> OKAY, SO HOW DOES IT WORK?
> So if your home would rent for say, AED 200,000 per year multiply that times 15 and you get AED 3, 400,000 - the equilibrium value of your home. That is a very simplified way of looking at it. A real investor would deduct costs, such as taxes, maintenance 5% for vacancies and other, but in a nutshell, these ratios have stood the test of time.


That is interesting so lets take an example in Dubai which I know about.

A 2 bed in the torch would rent for say 220,000 per annum. 

220,000 x 15 = 3,300,000

So 3.3m is the equilibrium price. Now the current resale price is around 1.8 to 1.9m so we can see that such property is Dubai is very undervalued and makes one of the best investments in the World right now.

Investors are now realizing this and this is why we are seeing property in Dubai starting to move again even in these hard global times.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

first timer said:


> Can get 7.5% in bond in the UK


Maybe if you are lucky, but remember that is only 7.5% of your total cash outlay.

In Dubai you can take a mortgage of 70% and put down a 30% deposit. Your high rental yield (with rentals around 220,000 etc.) will pay for your motgage, running costs and provide a profit.

Now in 5 to 7 years time when prices have reached their equilibrium price = 220,000 x 15 = 3.3m then you would have made a profit of net rental profit + 1.5m in capital gains + captial repayments made. This equates to huge amounts more than 7.5% compounded on the same 30% deposit over the same time frame.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

first timer said:


> Dont forget to take the service charges, bank charges, wear n tear and void periods into your calculations
> 
> Probally be nearer to 5%
> 
> Can get 7.5% in bond in the UK or 20% in other countries
> 
> Oh dont forget the capital gains that Dubai will introduce once they have finished building the place with the wests dosh
> 
> Only an opinion of course


@First Time - If you take JBR it is 10-12 k in service charges per year. I am thinking about endusers and their choice - these people are not investors mainly - they just want a nice place to live - maybe for a period of 3 years or more. They might have money from home where they did sell their real estate. I think it is easy right now to get 8 % in quite secure bonds and even in some banks - more than this and it is not as secure as you pretend. In Denmark you can get 7% in the bank with state garantuee. Yes, you might be right that there are better investments in the world - but if you are going to live in the real estate we are discussing I would buy myself - but I also hate paying rents and having a landlord.


----------



## Mistermark

Do you work in Dubai? No, I work in the UK

Do you have enough money to not work but want to stay in Dubai? I have enough money not to work, but I work to increase my net worth. I don't want to stay in Dubai. Were it not for work I'd probably live in the South of France, rather than Dubai.

Do you invest to just make money and want to move back to your home country? I invest just to make money - a long-term income stream. I already live in my home country.


----------



## dirtyharry1

Actually I am still confident that the market will catch up next year - at least for properties in good locations and of better quality - and those properies are still rare to find. But the times where you could double your money in 12 months are definitely over, and this is not only good, it is normal, even for a developing country.

The biggest problem is the fact that they want to build something on every square meter without having the infrastructure in place. I do not know whether there is any masterplan, but if so, something has gone out of control...


----------



## Mistermark

diveksa said:


> Just like other investments, home prices also can be evaluated upon the basis of a P/E Ratio.
> A P/E (or Price/Earnings) ratio is the ratio of the price of an investment divided by its potential earnings. Just as for stocks and other investments, there are 'equilibrium' PE Ratios for homes - the magic number is around 15. A PE Ratio of 15 is about the historically correct price for real estate in a normal market. When the bubble bursts, the ratios will go below this for a time and eventually come back to equilibrium.
> 
> OKAY, SO HOW DOES IT WORK?
> So if your home would rent for say, AED 200,000 per year multiply that times 15 and you get AED 3, 400,000 - the equilibrium value of your home. That is a very simplified way of looking at it. A real investor would deduct costs, such as taxes, maintenance 5% for vacancies and other, but in a nutshell, these ratios have stood the test of time.


I think what you say is a fairly reasonable rule of thumb, though there's a more precise method.

- Divide 100 by the prevailing mortgage interest rate
- Multiply the net annual rent (after agent's deductions etc) by this figure
- This is the 'equilibrium value' or 'fundamental value' of your property

The advanced method is better because it reflects differences in interest rate, whereas the simple calculation you gave assumes an interest of 6.67%, which may be a fair long-term rate for world markets but doesn't reflect market-specific realities.

If you run this calculation in Dubai, I suspect you'll conclude that most resales are underpriced. Some newly released off-plan projects look overpriced, however...


----------



## Morten_Denmark

dirtyharry1 said:


> Actually I am still confident that the market will catch up next year - at least for properties in good locations and of better quality - and those properies are still rare to find. But the times where you could double your money in 12 months are definitely over, and this is not only good, it is normal, even for a developing country.
> 
> The biggest problem is the fact that they want to build something on every square meter without having the infrastructure in place. I do not know whether there is any masterplan, but if so, something has gone out of control...


Dirtyharry - this is the first post from you where I feel some positive vibes  But you are absolutely right. I would wish prices would go up moderately - like 8-10% per year instead of a rollercoaster market. We will now prop. see that developers will find it hard to sell offplan and they will have to compete on quality, location etc - which will be good.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yes I would also prefer only 8-10% gains per year at the moment.

Regarding the equilibrium value this is very interesting especially the more accurate version by Mistermark. My question is how much does the current value tend to deviate from this equilibrium value if you look at historic figures (globally)?


----------



## josephny

^^^^studios at 540 SQ ft


----------



## IISinbadII

But these formulas are based on stable RENT in more mature markets. Currently, in Dubai, there is shortage of completed units. Plus we have high demand since families are being moved out of sheared housing. How can we say that the rents would remain the same in 3 to 5 years time when all those thousands of Sports City, JVS, etc units come to the market.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I suppose we can only estimate but supply and demand are the key. I think we had a discussion recently and concluded that supply and demand should be equal over the next few years especially now that supply will be more limited with delays on newly launched more expensive projects.


----------



## IISinbadII

Heading says one thing and the report another:

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10256600.html

Andrew Chambers, managing director of Asteco, said despite the financial crunch affecting the rest of the world, demand for villas and apartments in Dubai, remains "unabated".


----------



## hot4dubai

Morten_Denmark said:


> Hi HT
> 
> I know you are kidding - but without sounding like an naive idiot - I actually hear the same thing from my contacts in Dubai - which are not naive. Many think Dubai will be somewhat immune to world crisis and some think demand will be immense - which soaring rents witnesses right now. And it seems like there are some good offers which are moving sales again.


exactly...I have based my comments on real facts which have happened this week...not on hearsay or rumours...as the saying goes "action speaker louder than words".


----------



## Arno Salzl

IISinbadII said:


> Heading says one thing and the report another:
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10256600.html
> 
> Andrew Chambers, managing director of Asteco, said despite the financial crunch affecting the rest of the world, demand for villas and apartments in Dubai, remains "unabated".


and similar interview of Mr. Chambers in arabian business.com:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/536436-dubai-property-demand-flat-amid-global-slowdown


----------



## noir-dresses

not that bad

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/Dubaiapartmentssellingfor20more.aspx


----------



## BenjiDXB

I found a tenant for my 2 BR aptment in JBR in April 2008 and at that time the standard applicable annual rent was AED 130K...which was then considered a pretty handsome rental income...if I could rent it out now, at let s say 220K, I could take that money, move to a beach bungalow in Thailand and not work anymore... :nuts: :lol:


----------



## BenjiDXB

noir-dresses said:


> not that bad
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/Dubaiapartmentssellingfor20more.aspx


In my humble opinion this newspaper is a propaganda paper for the Dubai Inc., I have never seen ANY critical or sceptical article in that paper whatsoever...everything is always rosy red and wonderful... nevertheless I am an optimist too, when it comes to real estate investments in Dubai, but more in the medium and long term...I dont think think the worst is over just after 3 weeks...


----------



## noir-dresses

That crossed my mind many times, but they seem pretty on the ball most of the time. Some people even say that the rulers dont care about the investors, and only want to take our money. Then why would they invest all that money in infastructure, and not to mention Emirates Airlines having such a back log of orderd commercial aircraft. Those are just two signs of there long term commitment, and vision. Basically they have to get the job done or else there finished when Dubai's oil runs out, so Im feeling pretty confident they will do what ever is neccessary to get to where they want to be one day.


----------



## eddy123

*I'm agree*

^^^^ Agree!

I already mentioned that in my previous post. Don't rely on what the media is telling you. I noticed that most of the members are still analyzing the UAE real-estate market based on what the local media is telling them. It is all Hollywood inspiration!


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Remember Peter Cooper from 24/7 ? I think he was heavily invested in the property market reading his analysis - but it is a long time ago since I read his last analysis


----------



## Wannaberich

first timer said:


> Same as Dubai, going down by the hour
> Will keep falling and falling
> Only those who brought years ago will benefit
> :banana:


Come on moderators what does this guy have to do to get banned?!
He's winding everyone up with his negative posts which have no substance.


----------



## Wannaberich

makerian said:


> My biggest headache as a business owner is accommodation for my employees. I currently pay Dhs 4,000 per month for four of them to share a room in a flat in Bur Dubai.


Is that even legal?
With all these new rules about villa shares etc,surely this isnt allowed?


----------



## smussuw

^^ Bur Dubai is not a villa !


----------



## skdubai

Wannaberich said:


> Come on moderators what does this guy have to do to get banned?!
> He's winding everyone up with his negative posts which have no substance.


so u want to get this guy banned because he says something you don't like?




Wannaberich said:


> Is that even legal?
> With all these new rules about villa shares etc,surely this isnt allowed?


it probably isn't, but with the current rent, the average middle to low income person would spend their entire salary on rent....


besides, only in Dubai have i ever herd of people having problems with others sharing an apartment!! What the hell is it to you as long as the people living there are ok with it???


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> ^^ Bur Dubai is not a villa !


You didnt really say that you?!:nuts:

Ok,in plain english,does the rule for sharing property apply to appartments too?Cos if it doesnt then thats just plain stupid.


----------



## smussuw

^^ lol, this one family rule and bachelor rule come side by side !


----------



## porshe911

josephny said:


> ^^^^studios at 540 SQ ft


start from 526500 - to 688500 uae dirhams . 975 -to 1275 sqf


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> ^^ lol, this one family rule and bachelor rule come side by side !


Right,so your saying 4 guys in a room is illegal ?


----------



## smussuw

^^ in villas and family neighborhoods.


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> ^^ in villas and family neighborhoods.


That doesnt make sense.If the reason sharing was banned because of fire risks etc,sharing rooms anywhere is dangerous.


----------



## smussuw

^^ It is mainly for cultural reasons actually as families don't feel comfortable seeing bunch of bachelors wandering around.


----------



## Pleth

New ferries:
http://www.dubaitourism.ae/DubaiWee...id/322/EntryID/72/language/en-US/Default.aspx


----------



## IISinbadII

Wannaberich said:


> Come on moderators what does this guy have to do to get banned?!
> He's winding everyone up with his negative posts which have no substance.


Ever heard of "Freedom of speech". I have seen others in the past say that Dubai property will keep going up (forever). So if he says the opposite whats wrong. Just because we don't like what he says does not mean he should be banned.


----------



## IISinbadII

Mavekris said:


> ^^Sorry but did you just compare monaco with dubai?
> 
> Any idea about stats of monaco?hno:


^^ Come on guys, I was being sarcastic. Dubai is Monaco wannabe.


----------



## V Kapoor

*The Bubble!*

There is lot of talk of THE BUBBLE these days! I found this article in an Indian daily, explaining how a bubble works..... if you have the patience to go thru this rather longish piece you might enjoy it..... the currency mentioned (Re & Rs) is Indian rupees......

_If you have been wondering how the bubble works, be it in the economy or the stock market, the story of this tiny island which has only three inhabitants, two Re 1 notes in circulation and a piece of land will help. This is what happened to the country between January 1, 2008 and June 30, 2008.

January 1, 2008: Only three citizens lived in that country, Mr A, Mr B and Mr C. Mr A owned the land. Mr B and Mr C owned Re 1 note each. So the country’s total wealth was Rs 3.

Februay 1, 2008: Mr B decided to buy the land from Mr A for Rs 1. So, now Mr A and Mr C have Rs 1 each while Mr B owned the land that’s worth Re 1. The wealth of the country stays at Rs 3. 

March 1, 2008: Mr C felt that the price of the land would go up. So, he borrowed Re 1 from Mr A, and with his he bought the land from Mr B for Rs 2. 

Mr C is A’s debtor for Re 1. So Mr A’s wealth is Re 1. Mr B had sold the land and picked Rs 2. So Mr B’s wealth is Rs 2. Mr C owns the land worth Rs 2 and with his Re 1 debt to Mr A, his wealth is Re 1. The country’s wealth is now Rs 4; up from Rs 3. 

April 1, 2008: Mr A, the original owner of the land, is upset that its price is now Rs 2. He wants it back. So he borrows Rs 2 from Mr B and buys the land from Mr C for Rs 3. 

The balance Re 1 is settled by nullifying the Re 1 which was due to Mr A from Mr C. Now Mr A owns the land worth Rs 3. Since he has borrowed Rs 2 from Mr B, his wealth is Re 1. Mr B has given Rs 2 loan to Mr A. 

So his wealth is Rs 2. Mr C has Rs 2 with him. So his wealth is Rs 2. The wealth of the country is the total wealth of the three guys, and is Rs 5; up from Rs 4.

May 1, 2008: Mr B decides to get into the act. He buys the land from Mr A for Rs 4. He settles by borrowing Rs 2 from Mr C and by adjusting against the loan of Rs 2 to Mr A. Mr A is free of debt, has the Rs 2 with him and so is worth Rs 2. Mr B owns the land now worth Rs 4 but since he owes Rs 2 to Mr C, his wealth is Rs 2. Mr C has lent Rs 2 to Mr B and so his wealth is Rs 2. The country’s wealth is Rs 6; up from Rs 5.

June 1, 2008: Mr C decides that the land price cannot go up. Ditto is Mr A’s thought. Neither wants to buy the land. So now Mr A has the Rs 2 and his wealth is Rs 2. Mr B owes Mr C Rs 2 and the land which he thought was worth Rs 4 is now only Re 1. 

His wealth is Re -1. Mr C has a loan of Rs 2 to Mr. B. But that’s bad debt. Although his wealth is Rs 2, he may not be able to encash it. The wealth of the country is Rs 3; down from Rs 6.

June 30, 2008:Mr B declares bankruptcy. Mr C has to forego his loan to Mr B and in lieu takes the land which is worth Re 1. So Mr A has now Rs 2, Mr B has no wealth and Mr C has the land worth Rs 1. The wealth of the country is Rs 3.

Confused? Good. If you are an accountant, look at each event as a transaction. The changing capital is the wealth of each individual and the sum of the capitals is the wealth of the country.

There are several morals in this. The most important are Mr A won, Mr B lost and Mr C got away. When the bubble bursts, the guy with cash is king. 

If you don’t partake in the fun your wealth swings but you don’t lose. Now what we said of this country is true of the stock market._


Complicated? Is it?


----------



## Mavekris

^^Complicated
Here's a good one about stock market.

Once upon a time in a village, a man appeared and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for Rs10.

The villagers seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest and started catching them.

The man bought thousands at Rs10 and as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort. He further announced that he would now buy at Rs20. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again.

Soon the supply diminished even further and people started going back to their farms. The offer rate increased to Rs25 and the supply of monkeys became so little that it was an effort to even see a monkey, let alone catch it!

The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at Rs50! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would now buy on behalf of him.

In the absence of the man, the assistant told the villagers. Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has collected. I will sell them to you at Rs35 and when the man returns from the city, you can sell it to him for Rs50."

The villagers squeezed up with all their savings and bought all the monkeys.

Then they never saw the man nor his assistant, only monkeys everywhere!!!

Welcome to the "Stock" Market!!!!!


----------



## V Kapoor

*Speculators and Traders!*

Good one....Mavekris!


----------



## Wannaberich

IISinbadII said:


> . Just because we don't like what he says does not mean he should be banned.



Its nothing to do with not liking what he/she says,its to do with the fact none of his/her posts have any substance.
Its just one long wind up.


----------



## noir-dresses

more positive indicators

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/11042008_c68f2123f7e140348f5dce6fb6585951.aspx


----------



## dlnash

I think we all are missing the main point here.. the middle east is loaded with CASH....
Sheikh Mansour Bin Zayed Al Nahyan along with the Qatar government have just bailed out Barclays by buying stakes worth 7.3 billion pounds. Just imagine how much CASH both of these have, that they are able to invest this much MONEY at this time when the financial crises is taking the world down the drain, Also they probably know that the worst of the crises is about to come in the UK and still they invest this much...It must be like spare change for them..
I don't get this...what are the richest ppl in the UK doing now?? Why arent they able to bail out even one financial institution? Why arent they taking stakes?? It seems like they have no confidence whatsoever in their local economies.. why is Gordon Brown begging the Middle east to contribute..why doesnt he ask the billionaires in the UK..
Same thing goes for the US, what happened to Bill Gates fortune or even the top 10 richest in the US? Is it finished..? Come to think of it, I have'nt heard anyone from the richest list investing even a $1 just to save some banks except Warren Buffet..

The point is this: when and if there is even a slightest hint of the UAE economy going down,,why won't the Shks' bail them out?? I'm pretty sure all of them (abu dhabi, dubai) combined will go out of the way,, including divesting their investments abroad and bringing them into their respective economies
I think this should be a very re-assuring thing to all investors....the Shks are sitting there with LOADS of cash..


----------



## Doctor_UK

*interesting facts about dubai*

interesting facts about dubai from www.apredubai.com website

*226* - Billion AED, the value of property related transcations that have taken place in the previous 9 months

*150* - The percentage growth rate in property related transactions as compared to 2007

*35* - The number of articles making up the new laws regulating the sale of Off-plan properties

*1624* - Projects registered in Dubai thus far 

*180000* - AED the average rental price for a 2 bedroom appartment in modern Dubai

*4th* - The UAE's Real Estate market position among the world’s most effective markets




....


----------



## Imre

Tom_Green said:


> The rents for Palm Jebel Ali have increased? There is no villa to rent. How can the rent increase?
> Same for Downtown Burj Dubai. There are no villas. Just apartments



usually those "experts" dont know what they are talking about.:lol:


----------



## houshang

Premium going down on Palm Jebel Ali and most do not understand!
It is so simple:

This project has been dominated by speculators as they only had to pay AED 286,000(10%) to be able to hold on to it from 2004 till now.

Now, if you were a Palm Jebel Ali speculator and you had not sold before the first instalment and thus were to pay AED 660,000 + by 10th Novermber or face cancellation of your contract and your bank had let you down and could not borrow elswhere then what would you do? Would`nt you try to salvage some of what is left and settle for a lower premium depending on how serious your financial situation was?!
This is the only reason why premium on Palm Jebel Ali has gone down.
also some agents are taking advantage of this situation. I had an e-mail from one of them oferring 40% while the same agent was selling them at 80% premium in Gulf News. You will see this to happen for other projects when first instalment is due.


----------



## nri-hotels

Is it true that some Middle East central banks are preparing to send billions to bail out US economy? I wonder if there is any left over to bail out their own economies when it collapses this Christmas.


----------



## BankerMan

Old Town Lovin... said:


> Only time will tell... But I am proud of my country's decision today... I am alot more comfortable with the world's economic prospects after today...
> 
> And apparently, so is the rest of the world...
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_markets_global
> 
> Ok... Enough politics... Time to celebrate! :cheers:


OTL.....seems like world equity markets lost steam after the initial euphoria of the 'Bama win. The DJIA has lost over 443 points today behind an equally large loss yesterday, and equity markets in Asia and Europe have followed suit. Oil closed barely above $60 a barrel, an indication of how fragile the world economy is.

Having said that, 'Bama will be good for business so long as the Dems don't increase taxes.......which, at this point, is hard to tell. Also, a precipitous pull out of Iraq would result in a power vacuum in that country, one which Iran will be ready to fill instantly. This would result in an almost vice-like grip of Shia domination stretching from Iran, through Iraq and into the Lebanon, and encircling the Gulf. Let's hope that doesn't happen.


----------



## Taimur

blackberry2k said:


> It seems impossible for Mazaya to deliver even in Dec 2009. The construction is not happening at all. Since more than 3 months now they have just done some excavation and put the pictures on their website just to attract investors.
> Any one here has an insight when they will give the handover ?



You got a point blackberry i had tht in mined too ...If you read your contract it says the project could be delayed from the date December 2009 to December 2010 . 

then it says if they wont be able to handover from that date we can have the refund without any intrest !!. 

I think we should push them for a revise payment plan .... i have a payment due end of this month and thenmy last payment is due on mar 2009 and rest is on delivery . i


----------



## nri-hotels

BankerMan said:


> OTL.....seems like world equity markets lost steam after the initial euphoria of the 'Bama win. The DJIA has lost over 443 points today behind an equally large loss yesterday, and equity markets in Asia and Europe have followed suit. Oil closed barely above $60 a barrel, an indication of how fragile the world economy is.
> 
> Having said that, 'Bama will be good for business so long as the Dems don't increase taxes.......which, at this point, is hard to tell. Also, a precipitous pull out of Iraq would result in a power vacuum in that country, one which Iran will be ready to fill instantly. This would result in an almost vice-like grip of Shia domination stretching from Iran, through Iraq and into the Lebanon, and encircling the Gulf. Let's hope that doesn't happen.


Of course we all want nothing bad to happen, but sometimes reality can be more cruel (or stranger) than fiction. Who would have thought that an obscure terrorist group could so easily train themselves patiently to commandeer four jet planes into specific buildings thousands of miles away ?

Sometimes, its good to balance one's euphoria with paranoia, because extreme sentiments in either way can be hazardous to one's health, as well as to one's pocket.

I think its better to sell Dubai property and keep cash until after Obama's settled in the White House for a year or so. There's not going to be any rush for property in Dubai, since the supply of developed property would be overwhelming by then.


----------



## Arno Salzl

from meed:

Dubai's previously robust property sector is showing signs of being affected by the global financial crisis.
It is still too early to say whether Dubai's real estate market has crashed, but all the indicators are that, at the very least, it is in the middle of a serious correction.
The events of the past three months have been nothing short of spectacular.
As recently as July, the enormous stockpile of planned and ongoing projects meant that Dubai's booming economy seemed to be impervious to the effects of the global credit crunch.
The emirate and its 'build and they will come' mantra was being touted as a haven from the global economic storm.
How wrong that assessment was. Although the Central Bank of the UAE quickly sought to reassure investors by claiming that local financial institutions had virtually no exposure to Lehman Brothers, the US bank that collapsed in September, subsequent evidence has proved otherwise.
UAE-based investment bank Shuaa Capital reported a $21m write-down from exposure to Lehman Brothers, and other banks in the region have made similar losses.
This comes on top of earlier, even larger write-downs due to investments in financial products such as collateralised debt obligations that lay behind the collapse of the US mortgage market.
Lehman's failure has forced banks worldwide to reassess their lending strategies, and the bad news for Dubai is that banks no longer want exposure to the real estate market.
"Our bank is overweight with real estate," says one UK-based banker. "So we are not interested in financing real estate projects. The rest of the international banks will say the same."
Debt access
Developers, including those at Dubai government-related firms, which are collectively known as Dubai Inc, publically maintain that they still have sufficient access to debt, but bankers privately claim otherwise.
"There is a real disconnection between what senior executives at Dubai Inc's real estate developers think the banking sector will do for them and what the banks will actually do," says the UK-based banker.
For developers, this means there is little finance available for new projects.
Most do not have enough equity to finance projects themselves, and while local banks may be able to fund some schemes, the majority will struggle to find the money to get their projects moving.
The impact of this shrinking pool of finance is being seen across the emirate. Some projects have already been scaled back, delayed or cancelled.
The biggest to be affected so far is Palm Deira, where local developer Nakheel has instructed contractors to stop work on elements of what is planned to be the world's largest man-made island.
This decision, revealed in MEED on 24 October, came just weeks after the developer launched plans to build a 1.4-kilometre-high tower as part of its $38bn Nakheel Harbour & Tower scheme at the Cityscape trade show in Dubai.
The timing suggests the severity of the credit crunch either took the developer by surprise, or it is now prioritising its projects and scaling back on more marginal schemes that promise less immediate financial returns.
"There is definitely a slowdown in activity," says Blair Hagkull, managing director for the Middle East and North Africa at UK real estate firm Jones Lang LaSalle.
"The level of project review in the early stages is intensifying, and when investors purchase land, they are now making sure they get the optimum usage out of that land.
"Some of these projects are the largest of their kind in world. It is the smart thing to do, irrespective of what happens elsewhere."
Many other developers are taking similar decisions, although few like to admit to them in public.
Other projects rumoured to have been affected include a scheme in the Al-Barsha area of Dubai, where contractors have been told to suspend works. Projects in Dubailand, such as the giant Asia Asia hotel, have also been affected (see News, page 11).
"The projects are there, but there are a lot of delays, no one is in a hurry to do anything," says an estimator at one Dubai-based contractor that is bidding for several real estate projects.
Making preparations
Consultants are also feeling the pinch and laying off staff as firms prepare for the inevitable slowdown.
One architectural firm working in Dubai has informed staff that: "The global financial crisis has stopped a number of the firm's projects, suspended others and slowed down many of the ongoing projects.
"The resultant economic downturn is not expected to recover to its previous level for quite some time."
More alarmingly, even government-backed infrastructure projects have been affected.
There is a high-level tussle between the Roads & Transport Authority (RTA) and Dubai Airports over the funding of the AED40bn ($10.9bn) Purple Line for the Dubai Metro that will connect Dubai International airport and the new Al-Maktoum International airport in Jebel Ali.
The disagreement is expected to delay the award of any construction contracts.
Dubai Electricity & Water Authority (Dewa) has also been affected. It has scrapped the tender for the first phase of its P Station power and water project at Hassyan, citing high prices.
The Dubai-based estimator says he expects more projects to be delayed as clients wait for prices to come down as the market contracts.
"The market is becoming slower, so contractors will need to look for work and clients hope that will mean cheaper prices," he says.
"Materials are also coming down in price. Steel is now worth about $545 a tonne, when during the summer it topped $1,500. We have not seen a reduction in concrete and cement prices, but it will come as things slow down."
Finance and costs are just one side of the development equation; demand for real estate is the other critical factor.
As economic uncertainty percolates through the economy, speculators are also moving out of real estate and many prospective buyers are adopting a wait-and-see approach.
With sellers starting to outnumber buyers, anecdotal reports suggest prices have already fallen by 10 per cent from their peak value.
Real estate agents report that October has been a disaster as properties failed to meet their asking prices.
"The touted increase in pricing over the past year is coming off," says Hagkull. "There is a difference between what people ask for and what they get."
To make matters worse, many developments are close to being completed, raising the risk of the market being in a position of having too much supply.
Over the past year, more than 40 completed tower blocks have been handed over to their new owners and tenants at Jumeirah Beach Residence, together with numerous other towers at Dubai Marina and Jumeirah Lake Towers.
More are on the way as towers at Business Bay and other developments around the emirate are completed. As these units come onto the market, basic economics suggests they will drive down prices even further.
It now seems that after years of strong growth, the same factors that converged to create Dubai's booming real estate-driven economy are conspiring against it.
Instead of latent demand, the market is heading towards a position of oversupply.
Cheap financing has disappeared and the dollar is strengthening, making Dubai more expensive in comparison with major cities elsewhere around the world.
Opportunities elsewhere
Falling property prices in more mature markets such as London and Paris mean there are more attractive real estate investment opportunities away from Dubai, where the market has reached a peak.
"One of the things that drew people to Dubai in the first place was that prices were attractive when compared with other markets," says Hagkull. "Now those prices are retreating."
Perhaps the most worrying change for the long term is that oil prices have fallen by more than 50 per cent since July and are close to $65 a barrel, compared with a peak of more than $147 a barrel in July.
If this collapse in prices is sustained, it will have a serious impact on Dubai's project market.
The emirate itself may have diversified the vast majority of its economy away from the hydrocarbons sector, but it is still heavily dependant on investors from elsewhere in the region that do rely on energy exports for their revenues.
If prices remain at the $65-a-barrel level, the excess liquidity the region has enjoyed for the past five years will be far more limited.
Abu Dhabi emirate, for example, based its budget this year on an estimated oil price of $45-50 a barrel.
Given the recent drop in oil prices, Abu Dhabi has far less room for manoeuvre than 
it did before and, with a massive bank of projects of its own, will be less tempted to seek investment opportunities in Dubai than it has in the past.
The same applies to Saudi Arabian and Kuwaiti investors who, together with investors from Abu Dhabi, have provided the bulk of foreign investment in Dubai's real estate market over the past five years.
It may be too early to claim that the market is crashing, but more projects are expected to slow down, and more jobs cuts are expected to be made in the coming weeks.
A clearer picture will emerge towards the end of the year, when the industry releases figures for how real estate sales performed in the third quarter.
If they show a significant fall, as anecdotal evidence suggests they will, it will be fair to assume that the long-awaited crash has arrived and Dubai will be in for a rough ride in 2009.

Author: Colin Foreman. Gulf Bureau Chief ,Dubai


----------



## eddy123

*see the price difference*

Not be meant as an ad but just to have a look what is going on, on the Palm Jebel Ali.

http://www.edwardsandtowers.com/jbl_linkdetails.asp?ldetails=Garden%20Home


----------



## Monument

Sadly there are a lot of very financially stretched people in Dubai who assumed the only way for the property market was up and got in too late.

There will be some great bargains coming up over the next 18 - 36 months especially on the fringes of Dubai and places like Ajman and RAK.


----------



## Imre

^^
water homes for 4,2 million , seems a good deal.


----------



## Arno Salzl

and a garden home for 4,448,500 also, but is it real?


----------



## smussuw

2 million Dirhams less and it would be good for me :banana:


----------



## 234sale

What was the OP,, maybe an orginal investor cashing in his chips.

I wouldn't want to wait 6 years to get the property personally


----------



## Imre

OP prices were around 2.8 million.

the problem is if the Nakheel will cancel the project , you will get back just the original price.


----------



## eddy123

*jointly buy*

E&T are quite realistic with their prices. I worked with them before when I had plans to buy on Jebel Ali. That was almost two years ago. Premium was around 40-50% for lower numbers. I missed however my chance as the seller walked away when we wanted to do the transfer at Nakheel. Can you believe it! I had spend al lot of money, on morgages, money transfers etc. and this was my reward! I even deposited 100K to secure the deal. As I was so dissappointed I completely stepped out of the palm buy and invested somewhere else but now I see this opportunity I might consider to step back in. 

Maybe I should buy it with some other investors although I would like to live there myself when complete. I could bring in a million of so.


----------



## jacobdxb

Monument said:


> Sadly there are a lot of very financially stretched people in Dubai who assumed the only way for the property market was up and got in too late.
> 
> There will be some great bargains coming up over the next 18 - 36 months especially on the fringes of Dubai and places like Ajman and RAK.


^^ I don't see Ajman and RAK falling that much - I mean, you can still get decent property here at 500-1000 AED psft. This is however subject to the power situation being solved before completion...


----------



## jacobdxb

Arno Salzl said:


> from meed:
> 
> Abu Dhabi emirate, for example, based its budget this year on an estimated oil price of $45-50 a barrel.
> Given the recent drop in oil prices, Abu Dhabi has far less room for manoeuvre than
> it did before and, with a massive bank of projects of its own, will be less tempted to seek investment opportunities in Dubai than it has in the past.
> The same applies to Saudi Arabian and Kuwaiti investors who, together with investors from Abu Dhabi, have provided the bulk of foreign investment in Dubai's real estate market over the past five years.
> 
> Author: Colin Foreman. Gulf Bureau Chief ,Dubai


^^ Is this good or bad news for the Abu Dhabi property market? Will the investors from Abu Dhabi move their focus to their home market then?


----------



## Garden city

Arno Salzl said:


> from meed:
> 
> ...
> The emirate and its 'build and they will come' mantra was being touted as a haven from the global economic storm.
> How wrong that assessment was. *Although the Central Bank of the UAE quickly sought to reassure investors by claiming that local financial institutions had virtually no exposure to Lehman Brothers, the US bank that collapsed in September, subsequent evidence has proved otherwise.
> UAE-based investment bank Shuaa Capital reported a $21m write-down from exposure to Lehman Brothers, and other banks in the region have made similar losses.*
> This comes on top of earlier, even larger write-downs due to investments in financial products such as collateralised debt obligations that lay behind the collapse of the US mortgage market.
> *Lehman's failure has forced banks worldwide to reassess their lending strategies, and the bad news for Dubai is that banks no longer want exposure to the real estate market.*
> ...
> Author: Colin Foreman. Gulf Bureau Chief ,Dubai


This is what i absolutely hate about Govt institutions in UAE. They are not transparent at all and try to cover up things. It is not just with Govt institutions, we all know about Dubai Islamic Bank, Deyaar, etc. Where they try to cover up things and do not believe in clear communication.

I have heard from sources that ADIA also made huge losses after Lehman crash as they were invested in Lehman products. Eventually this piece of news will never make it to the general public as institutions here post fake figures and news.


----------



## houshang

It seems that there are two tales of property markets in Dubai. One featured by media and the other by developers.
Minutes ago I received an E-mail From IFA offerring office spaces at Palm Golden Mile at AED 4300 sqft. Who is out of touch? hno:


----------



## 234sale

mission said:


> So my tenant could stay another year without a rental increase and on the thirs year i can increase it by 10%
> 
> Is this right?


Yep,, you are stuck. I suggest you make friends with him, rather than demands from him.


----------



## 234sale

Morten_Denmark said:


> 3Beds in Springs are now 300 k.


Yep,, crazy :nuts:

The fundamentals don't make sense. I need a villa for a senior manager who we are relocating to Dubai. Rent is paid separate to salary still in most senior cases. Lack of skilled people is high, as most good people are in good jobs. I know the some master developers are trying to poach construction related staff to assist on mega projects as there is a big lack of decision makers.


----------



## Monument

mission said:


> So my tenant could stay another year without a rental increase and on the thirs year i can increase it by 10%
> 
> Is this right?


You could take it to the rental tribunal but they will, except in extraordinary circumstances, side with the tenant. 

Because of this - a lot of people prefer not to rent out their property - causing a shortage of rental properties - so prices keep going up.


----------



## mission

Thanks for the advice


----------



## mackie1964

234sale said:


> Yep,, crazy :nuts:
> 
> The fundamentals don't make sense. I need a villa for a senior manager who we are relocating to Dubai. Rent is paid separate to salary still in most senior cases. Lack of skilled people is high, as most good people are in good jobs. I know the some master developers are trying to poach construction related staff to assist on mega projects as there is a big lack of decision makers.


The UK is full of top notch Construction and Project Managers looking for work. We had to let a few go in the current climate. 

Times are going to be hard for the next 18months in Europe hno:


----------



## noir-dresses

On the other hand I think there's alot of property that is'nt rented out in Dubai just because people don't want any body using there villa's, apartment's what so ever. They don't need the money, head ache, and just basically don't want other's sleeping in there bed's, using there toilets, etc, etc. They basically bought the property for them selves to enjoy. I get alot of proposal's in Croatia to rent my place, really good offer's, and I always turn them down cause it's only for my family, and no one else. 

What a hang over Richard, beers always good untill the JD colas kick in, what a party in Dubrovnic last night, it's always the next day that's a killer.

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:
:banana::nuts::banana::nuts::banana::nuts::banana::nuts:
:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:


----------



## Wannaberich

75% of units sold at Axis Residence 3 Silicon Oasis within a few days.
Its a very good payment plan and well under construction yes, but still,in these times of doom and gloom and the off-plan market being dead,its surely a good sign.
Its an 8 tower project so to sell so much so quickly shows that if you get the payment plan right,and you launch when your well into construction then,as a developer,
you can still make your project a success.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10257728.html


----------



## IISinbadII

mission said:


> So my tenant could stay another year without a rental increase and on the thirs year i can increase it by 10%
> 
> Is this right?


No, its not right. You can't increase it by 10%.

For the 3rd year you can increase the rent only what the government allows you to for that year. For 2008 its 5% increase, and it changes from year to year.


----------



## IISinbadII

Wannaberich said:


> 75% of units sold at Axis Residence 3 Silicon Oasis within a few days.
> Its a very good payment plan and well under construction yes, but still,in these times of doom and gloom and the off-plan market being dead,its surely a good sign.
> Its an 8 tower project so to sell so much so quickly shows that if you get the payment plan right,and you launch when your well into construction then,as a developer,
> you can still make your project a success.
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10257728.html


Wait a minute. This may not mean what you think. 

It says "_sold 75 per cent of all *units available* in the third phase_". 

Its possible that they had made only X number of units available for sale and will make the rest available after some time. Its common for developers to release units (make available) in phases. Who knows??????


----------



## smussuw

have anyone read about Emaar delaying payments? It was mentioned in todays newspaper !


----------



## hot4dubai

IISinbadII said:


> You have no options. hno:
> 
> 1 year lease in writing means tenant can stay for 3 years. And no rent increase for 2 years. You can increase the rent for the 3rd year based on government allowance for that year.
> 
> No RERA index yet. But don't expect it to help you ether. Its supposed to keep the rents down and help the tenants. Not the "greedy, blood sucking" landlords! :bash:


What if the contract says strictly a " 1 year lease, non-negotatiable and renewal at discretion of the landlord". Can the tenent still take you to RERA to force you to renew at same rental for a second year? Anyone?


----------



## IISinbadII

hot4dubai said:


> What if the contract says strictly a " 1 year lease, non-negotatiable and renewal at discretion of the landlord". Can the tenent still take you to RERA to force you to renew at same rental for a second year? Anyone?


^^ It means nothing. 
No matter what the contract says, 1 year contract = 3 year contract. 
Khalas! 

:wallbash:


----------



## Wannaberich

IISinbadII said:


> Wait a minute. This may not mean what you think.
> 
> It says "_sold 75 per cent of all *units available* in the third phase_".
> 
> Its possible that they had made only X number of units available for sale and will make the rest available after some time. Its common for developers to release units (make available) in phases. Who knows??????


So if its only a quarter/third of all units thats still good considering its an 8 tower building.
I cant see this being released in phases as its well under construction.
They need the money now to complete the project.


----------



## mackie1964

smussuw said:


> have anyone read about Emaar delaying payments? It was mentioned in todays newspaper !


You will be asked to take a pay cut soon, if this continues Smussuw


----------



## smussuw

^^ I wouldn't mind if it all came as a big package, cheaper accommodation, less traffic ... etc :laugh: 

*Emaar extends mortgage repayment deadlines*
by John Irish on Friday, 07 November 2008

zoom
MORTGAGE MOVE: Emaar Properties has extended the time period for customers to repay mortgages. (Getty Images)
Emaar Properties said on Friday it had started extending the time period for customers to repay mortgages as liquidity constraints in the local banking sector had made it harder for customers to secure home finance.

Issam Galadari, Emaar Dubai chief executive and managing director of the group's international operations, said the Arab world's largest developer by market value was also planning to launch two projects in Dubai next year worth at least $5 billion each, although it would monitor market conditions.

"The credit crisis has affected everybody ...We have extended the time for them (clients) to pay their money," Galadari said on the sidelines of a World Economic Forum meeting.
Story continues below ↓
advertisement


"We introduced this about a week, 10 days ago."

Galadari said Emaar would keep this policy for a "while" until people found it easier to secure funding.

"We have to rely on these (financial) institutions ... they are financing our customers and we have pre-sales," he said.

Galadari said the group was "watching the market", but had yet to cancel or put back any projects.

"There are a lot of projects on the drawing board ... there are two in different areas in Dubai for next year," he said.

"We are working on these, but it will depend on the market." (Reuters)


----------



## THEPOINT

Wannaberich said:


> 75% of units sold at Axis Residence 3 Silicon Oasis within a few days.
> Its a very good payment plan and well under construction yes, but still,in these times of doom and gloom and the off-plan market being dead,its surely a good sign.
> Its an 8 tower project so to sell so much so quickly shows that if you get the payment plan right,and you launch when your well into construction then,as a developer,
> you can still make your project a success.
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10257728.html


Under 1000 aed psf and ready in a year or so will sell no problem


----------



## High Times

Wannaberich said:


> 75% of units sold at Axis Residence 3 Silicon Oasis within a few days.
> Its a very good payment plan and well under construction yes, but still,in these times of doom and gloom and the off-plan market being dead,its surely a good sign.
> Its an 8 tower project so to sell so much so quickly shows that if you get the payment plan right,and you launch when your well into construction then,as a developer,
> you can still make your project a success.
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10257728.html





IISinbadII said:


> Wait a minute. This may not mean what you think.
> 
> It says "_sold 75 per cent of all *units available* in the third phase_".
> 
> Its possible that they had made only X number of units available for sale and will make the rest available after some time. Its common for developers to release units (make available) in phases. Who knows??????





Wannaberich said:


> So if its only a quarter/third of all units thats still good considering its an 8 tower building.
> I cant see this being released in phases as its well under construction.
> They need the money now to complete the project.


This means nothing,

8 towers could equal 800 units.

They may have released 100 units and sold 75% or 75.

So realy they sold less than 10% of all units.

It's easy to say what you want people to hear with numbers.


----------



## Mavekris

Got a mail 

Area: 797 SF (1BD)
6th floor - highest in badrah - corner unit
Original price: AED 1,281,900/-
Selling Price: AED 1,269,091/- ( - Negative 1% Premium – No Commission Involved and no transfer fees) DIRECT OWNER
Paid to Nakheel: AED 128,190/ (10%) – 

All you need to pay is only AED 128,190/- (Developer deposit) – 12,819 discount(10%discount) = 115,372 SPA Available – Transfer same day!

I was cursing Nakheel for not calling me even after registering with 4 to5 names.

Now i feel very lucky for not getting a call for the sales launch.
:lol::lol:


----------



## THEPOINT

Mavekris said:


> Got a mail
> 
> Area: 797 SF (1BD)
> 6th floor - highest in badrah - corner unit
> Original price: AED 1,281,900/-
> Selling Price: AED 1,269,091/- ( - Negative 1% Premium – No Commission Involved and no transfer fees) DIRECT OWNER
> Paid to Nakheel: AED 128,190/ (10%) –
> 
> All you need to pay is only AED 128,190/- (Developer deposit) – 12,819 discount(10%discount) = 115,372 SPA Available – Transfer same day!
> 
> I was cursing Nakheel for not calling me even after registering with 4 to5 names.
> 
> Now i feel very lucky for not getting a call for the sales launch.
> :lol::lol:


Sorry for being thick but where is that ?


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> This means nothing,
> 
> 8 towers could equal 800 units.
> 
> They may have released 100 units and sold 75% or 75.
> 
> So realy they sold less than 10% of all units.
> 
> It's easy to say what you want people to hear with numbers.


Or maybe they actually sold 75% of 800 units but as no-one actually knows we can therefore drop the subject.


----------



## IISinbadII

Opus 2009 said:


> ^^
> The bar is for one year. It is spelled out in the law passed earlier this year. No ambiguity there. If you want it vacated for own use, then provided you give a 90 day notice stating your intention to live in it - you can have it vacated. It cannot be rented out for a year.


Thanks for the info. 
Are these laws available at any website?


----------



## Mavekris

Very funny mail i have recieved minutes ago,plz read till the end 

DEAR ALL, 

I HAVE DIRECT THE BEST DEAL ON PALM JEBEL ALI SIGNATURE ONLY 51% PREMIUM 

B FROND, SEA FACING UNIT, HIGHER NUMBER 45 + AT ONLY 51% PREMIUM ......UNBELIEVABLE DEAL 


ALSO HAVE WATER HOMES ON JEBEL ALI FOR 4.5 MILLION 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JBR 4 BED + MAIDS TERRACE APARTMENT--- FOR THE CHOSEN FEW 
5326 SQFT IN SIZE 
FULL SEA AND MARINA VIEWS 
1450 A SQFT FOR THIS MUCH LUXURY IS A STEAL (7.7 MILLION)
PRIVATE POOL ON TERRACE ---- ABSOLUTE BEST DEAL IN JBR
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DISCOVERY GARDENS MEDITERAANEAN CLUSTER 
READY TO MOVE WITH TITLE DEED AND FINANCE AVAILABLE
6 UNITS AT 1.3MILLION 
3 UNITS AT 110, 000 A YEAR 
-- 
THE AGENT THAT KNOWS YOUR NEEDS, LIKE FISH KNOW WATER 
WARM REGARDS;


----------



## Garden city

Arno Salzl said:


> This price level is unsustainable. My Spring Villa, type 4M, 2beds, is rented for 126.500. My tenant is happy, so am I, with a net yield over 10%. And I live in a Jumeirah villa, 4BR, 4500sqft, rental price(paid by my company): 179.000 AED.
> 
> As companies in the real estate, banking, shipping, logistics and commodities trading are starting to reduce their staff in Dubai, I do that we are very soon coming back to a more affordable housing, a welcome move for everybody here.
> 
> And perhaps the good old days are coming back, when chats in the sailing club were about regattas and beer, and not about greedy landlords and mooring prices; when trips in the desert were about sands and dunes and not about real estate projects.
> 
> *One question to all of you: is your company still considering hiring staff?*



Yes in my company there has been a hiring freeze and some job cuts as well. Some job cuts also were done in our subsidiaries.


----------



## smussuw

HSBC: AED20,000 monthly salary needed to get loan
by Dylan Bowman on Monday, 10 November 2008

zoom
CREDIT CRUNCH: HSBC has raised its minimum monthly salary threshold to 20,000 dirhams. (Getty Images)
HSBC has raised the minimum monthly salary someone must earn to qualify for a personal loan to 20,000 dirhams ($5,445) due to the global credit crunch, the bank confirmed to Arabian Business on Monday.

The bank said it doubled the minimum monthly salary threshold on Nov. 1 from 10,000 dirhams.

HSBC raised its threshold to 10,000 dirhams from 5,000 dirhams in early October, it said.

The bank said in a statement the new credit eligibility criteria “will ensure that customers receive loans that they can afford to repay at a time of considerable uncertainty around the world”.

Raj Madha, equity anaylst at EFG-Hermes, said HSBC might be trying to reduce its exposure to a section of the market that many see as overleveraged and other banks could follow suit given the current liquidity squeeze.

"We would expect banks to be less agressive in going after loans, particularly where the returns do not necessarily match the risks," Madha said.

The news has left customers worried about how they will afford to pay their rent.

As many landlords demand tenants pay the entire year’s rent upfront it is common for tenants to take out a personal loan and pay it off over the course of the year.

HSBC's new threshold compares to just 3,000 dirhams a month which is required to take out a loan with Standard Chartered.

Have you been refused a personal loan because your bank has tightened its credit eligibility criteria? Arabian Business wants to hear from you. Email us at [email protected].


----------



## smussuw

^^ 20,000 should be the minimum salary to get a car loan too


----------



## Richard Head

smussuw said:


> ^^ 20,000 should be the minimum salary to get a car loan too



Sure, only offer loans to people that earn plenty of money and don't need them. Great marketing strategy. That's a bit like opening a bar for Emiratis only.


Oh, hang on.......................................terrible analogy.


----------



## smussuw

^^ I don't care as long as it prevents unwanted people from causing traffic jams. Oh yes, Emiratis should be exempt from such rule. We are already being punished day and night :cheers:


----------



## Philippa C

Where is Docc? We need some good news and a positive slant on things :grouphug:


----------



## ILOVE-DUBAI

work on Burj Dubai is going regular..till now


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dwindling property sales have forced Damac Properties *to slash 200 jobs at its Dubai office*.

The job cuts have been made across divisions including sales, marketing, recruitment and administration.

According to one sales agent who was made redundant last Thursday, the company gave staff three months severance pay and issued them with a No Objection Certificate (NOC), which legally allows them to search for other work in Dubai.

The company’s chief executive, Peter Riddoch, said the decision was “inevitable” in light of a severe slowdown in the global property market.

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081110/BUSINESS/964657934/-1/NEWS


----------



## docc

noir_dresses has taken over for posting positive news and he/she is doing a fantastic job.

I'm not wasting my time anymore with those who have NO IDEA as to how the market and the Govt. here works.


----------



## Richard Head

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dwindling property sales have forced Damac Properties *to slash 200 jobs at its Dubai office*.
> 
> The job cuts have been made across divisions including sales, marketing, recruitment and administration.
> 
> According to one sales agent who was made redundant last Thursday, the company gave staff three months severance pay and issued them with a No Objection Certificate (NOC), which legally allows them to search for other work in Dubai.
> 
> The company’s chief executive, Peter Riddoch, said the decision was “inevitable” in light of a severe slowdown in the global property market.
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081110/BUSINESS/964657934/-1/NEWS


That's terrible. Must be almost the entire Bullshit department.


----------



## Richard Head

ILOVE-DUBAI said:


> work on Burj Dubai is going regular..till now


There are so many bullshit rumours these days, can't believe anyone would take this seriously. Stopping work on the Burj now is like the story about the guy who set out to row across the Atlantic, and 10 KM from the end he realised he was too tired to finish, so he turned round and went back.

Analogies improving Richard.


----------



## noir-dresses

docc said:


> noir_dresses has taken over for posting positive news and he/she is doing a fantastic job.
> 
> I'm not wasting my time anymore with those who have NO IDEA as to how the market and the Govt. here works.


Hi docc, Im a guy, but I work with alot of hot looking babes, basically dress them during working hours, and undress them at night, lol. Im thinking of changing my user name just to NOIR. Chech out my web site www.noir-dresses.com, new version of web site coming out soon.

Some more positive news.http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/11092008_c388d2ebf858431cad1448fa67a56d73.aspx


----------



## noir-dresses

some more

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Banking_and_Finance/10258533.html


----------



## Richard Head

noir-dresses said:


> Hi docc, Im a guy, but I work with alot of hot looking babes, basically dress them during working hours, and undress them at night, lol. Im thinking of changing my user name just to NOIR. Chech out my web site www.noir-dresses.com, new version of web site coming out soon.
> 
> Some more positive news.http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/11092008_c388d2ebf858431cad1448fa67a56d73.aspx


Wow, I have just 3 questions

1) If you do that for a living, why would you want to spend time talking to us about skyscrapers?

2) What's your connection to Dubai?

3) Got any vacancies? I'm in a completely unrelated field, but hey, dressing.........undressing..................can't be that hard :lol:


----------



## Philippa C

docc said:


> noir_dresses has taken over for posting positive news and he/she is doing a fantastic job.
> 
> I'm not wasting my time anymore with those who have NO IDEA as to how the market and the Govt. here works.


I've missed your contributions. There seems to be so much doom & gloom around.


----------



## AITU

noir-dresses said:


> Hi docc, Im a guy, but I work with alot of hot looking babes, basically dress them during working hours, and undress them at night, lol. Im thinking of changing my user name just to NOIR. Chech out my web site www.noir-dresses.com, new version of web site coming out soon.
> 
> Some more positive news.http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/11092008_c388d2ebf858431cad1448fa67a56d73.aspx


^^If any of your girls need a place to crash when they come to Dubai, They can stay in one of my places.......


----------



## Richard Head

Philippa C said:


> I've missed your contributions. There seems to be so much doom & gloom around.


Me too, come on Docc, share the love, way too many miserable buggers around "Oh, woe is me, my signature villa I paid 4.8m for was worth 40m a month ago, now it's only worth 36m, the sky is falling, pass the paracetomol and vodka" :bash:


----------



## mackie1964

dubaifirst said:


> Mackie, i invested in Marassi and uptown cairo in Egypt with Emmar last year, as far as i know these projects are going according to plan, when you say Alabbar lost millions in Egypt, do u have any information on this please?


There is some videos on YouTube I am told (if you can understand it) :dunno:.
I was in the Exec Lounge in JW Marriott in Cairo recently and a few businessmen were discussing it and I just asked them a few questions. They were talking about him loosing 100s of millions and there was some kind of an interview on the TV with him. :cheers: I hope it is nothing to do with your investments, good luck.


----------



## smussuw

^^ I think its related to a dispute between Emaar and its Egyptian partner.


----------



## noir-dresses

Richard Head said:


> Wow, I have just 3 questions
> 
> 1) If you do that for a living, why would you want to spend time talking to us about skyscrapers?
> 
> 2) What's your connection to Dubai?
> 
> 3) Got any vacancies? I'm in a completely unrelated field, but hey, dressing.........undressing..................can't be that hard :lol:


1-this forum's a great place to educate your self on what's going on in dubai, much more informative than my developer.

2-went on a vacation to dubai for the first time in 2004, loved it and bought a place in JLT, still waiting for it to be completed.

3-funny that's what all my friends ask me to, it's a little harder than it looks, we control every aspect of our business, from purchasing materials in france, italy, and dubai. design, we manufacture every thing our selve's, we have our own store's, aswell as whole sale, and marketing.

I would'nt be surprised when Trump Tower is finished one day on Palm Island, that they host one of the Miss Universe pagents there because Donald Trump own's the brand. 

I always have model's asking me for a place to stay in dubai, that villa of your's Richard is a guaranteed panty remover, lol

Back to topic, I would'nt really worry too much about Dubai, thing's are still progressing, maybe slower than before, but still progressing, I've never heard of forcloser's like in the States's, not one bank went bust. It's actually good for us cause real estate developer's will put more effort into making there customer's happy, quality should be better. Stock market's will rebound one day, not just in Dubai, but the whole world. Just be patient, don't over extend your self, and have realistic expectation's.


----------



## noir-dresses

UAE prepare's step's to boost confidence

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Markets/10258758.html


----------



## noir-dresses

UAE is rising star in world of tourism, survery say's, Croatia up there to

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/11092008_38c64fce46834140bec772d98105efa2.aspx


----------



## noir-dresses

gulf market's are bottoming out

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/11092008_38c64fce46834140bec772d98105efa2.aspx


----------



## HappyLarry

Did anyone else just see Marc Faber on Bloomberg (22:30 UK) and his comment about Dubai?

"..Let me tell you, some people are going to be hurt very badly. i.e. Dubai properties. This will be the next disaster to hit the world. I was in middle east at an exhibition there. Everyone is planning a new island. There is plenty of sand but they have to build more sand islands. And a lot of these project will not be profitable. And I think they will have a lot of problems. Sov Funds will have to bail out their own projects before they bail out comapnies in the western world."

Above is word for word quote.

Charles Maxwell (Weeden) a reknown oil ind expert is asked where the Sov Funds going to get money for this Bail out. His comment is "I don't think they will bail out all but a few of the big ones, close to the ruler/close to the Shieks but majority will be let go. There will be no choice"

Buckle up folks. Dubai may be going down.
Jimmy Cagney "Top of the world ma. I am on top of the world."
hno:hno:hno:


----------



## jagmp

moderator

can i expect some dignity and respectability of members in this forum.this person called first timer seems to have lower himself so much that he is challanging and threatening me through private message when warned him not to send pms to me.

i don't wish to reply or communicate any of his remarks and comments to save my respect and dignity.

yes i admit i was mistaken when i posted my first post to him after reading his continuous foolish negativity and secret pleasure in others miseries. i thought Docc must have brought some senses in him.but this person is crossing all the limits. he is happy to think that he has won if that satisfys his false ego. 

i hope you wil take notice of him.


----------



## Wannaberich

jagmp said:


> moderator
> 
> can i expect some dignity and respectability of members in this forum.this person called first timer seems to have lower himself so much that he is challanging and threatening me through private message when warned him not to send pms to me.
> 
> i don't wish to reply or communicate any of his remarks and comments to save my respect and dignity.
> 
> yes i admit i was mistaken when i posted my first post to him after reading his continuous foolish negativity and secret pleasure in others miseries. i thought Docc must have brought some senses in him.but this person is crossing all the limits. he is happy to think that he has won if that satisfys his false ego.
> 
> i hope you wil take notice of him.


He is a She.


----------



## HappyLarry

Cheer up folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqESVHhzeyU

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## jagmp

really? thanks a lot for the information. well i am also a housewife. 
she imagines things. i am losing lot of money so i am upset. she advices me to find another job. she gives me investment advice. well i don't need to work at all. i am sitting on a huge profit instead. i have bought my properties when freehold law was not even passed.my UK portfolio was bought in last recession early 90s.she has no idea what were the prices like at the time.

i have lot of confidence in Dubai market. i love Dubai. i wish to divide my time between UK and Dubai once my son goes to uni.her gloom and doom will not shake the confidence of people in this forum. 

thanks again.


----------



## jagmp

some good news.http://http://www.arabianbusiness.com/537766-fear-over-uae-banks-real-estate-exposure-overblown


----------



## TDemirel

*For Info*

No More mortgage for flats from Lloyds TSB and 50% deposit for villas

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/537725-lloyds-axes-home-loans-on-uae-flats


----------



## TDemirel

*For Info*

HSBC raised salary limit to 20.000 / pm for personal loans.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/537738-hsbc-monthly-s-of-20000dhs-to-qualify-for-loanalary


----------



## rexdmx

^^ i know..my closest friend works there...no more loans. they just need deposits.
the deposit rate is like over 5% per year


----------



## 234sale

I am starting think we should close the credit crunch effects as both topics are being discussed in each thread.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Can you remove 4 to 5 threads which are LOCKED.

And also the threads with no replys ie with 0 posts.

I prefer it to be neat and tidy


----------



## 234sale

Malec prefers them that way,, sorry Mavekris


----------



## noir-dresses

Wannaberich said:


> He is a She.


It does'nt take much to realize that this is some one's way of rebeling because of there own failure's in life, and has little to do with dubai. No matter where they are, and what the subject might be they will always be misrable, negative, and just want to bring the whole world down to there level. Basically life is what you make it, positive people always have a smile on there face, and it radiat's around them.

Me being satisfied with realestate in dubai has nothing to do with how much it's worth, or how much it might not be worth, but just having a place that I can say is mine, enjoying the beach, sun, culture, food, night life, and just chilling in paradise. So to me it's priceless.


----------



## 234sale

I am always happy,, life is to short


----------



## docc

noir-dresses said:


> It does'nt take much to realize that this is some one's way of rebeling because of there own failure's in life, and has little to do with dubai. No matter where they are, and what the subject might be they will always be misrable, negative, and just want to bring the whole world down to there level. Basically life is what you make it, positive people always have a smile on there face, and it radiat's around them.
> 
> Me being satisfied with realestate in dubai has nothing to do with how much it's worth, or how much it might not be worth, but just having a place that I can say is mine, enjoying the beach, sun, culture, food, night life, and just chilling in paradise. So to me it's priceless.


:cheers:


----------



## skdubai

hot4dubai said:


> Good points raised but lets take the reason why I left Europe in the first place...blood sucking governments that take your hard earned money and charge tax after tax...even when they have finished with sucking you dry, they then want to come back for more in the form of tax on your savings!!
> 
> Just couldn't take it any more especially when you still have to put your kids into private school and take private heathcare because god knows where the Government actually spend your hard earned taxes and the services are just terrible. Then lets not forget you have to make your home as secure as Fort Knox to just sleep well at night and watch your kids every second and their every move because of the thugs and Pervs...you see where I am going with this....
> 
> Now we have moved to Dubai...safe and secure place to live, no leeches trying to control your every penny and yes summer is hot but then just äs inconvienient as winters in Europe". Great schools, great healthcare which may not be free but something you had to pay for anyway in UK.
> 
> The government here are very savvy and know what they are doing. They have a long term plan and will react to changes in market so I think it is only a matter of time before possible over-supply (already being addressed at the moment) and visa issues are sorted out. The potential/current job losses are following the current trends in the world and when this credit crunch eases people if they have left, will be back!
> 
> This takes me pack to my original point...this problem was not born in Dubai and is not unique to Dubai...If the rest of the world was doing just fine and the property market collapsed in Dubai only then YES I would be worried. But the point is that it is not unique to Dubai!


It is not a problem that is unique to dubai, but the symptoms of what started the problem in the bigger economies is present here.....

Too much liquidity and low interest rates when not warrented(because of the peg)combined with hot money flowing in which at this time is flowing out of the country at a crazy pace.. This S&*T is what the East Asian crisis was made of, the only difference being that they had no reserves to save them at that time...

I am not saying that Dubai is going to default on debt or will run out of money, simply because Abu Dhabi is here to save them. What i am saying is that the real estate boom was cause by investors and not consumers!! That is a bad sign. short term investors fundamentally are not what should be driving the economy. If x number of projects are released, a major part of it should be for consumption of the resident population and not for foreign investors. Foreign investors will run at the first sign of trouble. How many of you who walk around with people who buy property have heard people say i bought an apartment to "live" in as opposed to saying i "invested" in this property!!!

I will feel comfortable when i see end users getting their hand on property as opposed to people who buy whole floors in a newly released building so that they can make some capital gains!! Right now, i am not convinced.


----------



## Mavekris

I was very confident that BurJ Dubai Area will be least affected considering it to be the Most exclusive square kilometer on Mother Earth.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/537938-property-prices-in-burj-tumble-up-to-50---report

SALE 

May be you should consider buying one here instead of renting in old town.

Ubora will take 2yrs to complete any way.

2yrs *140 is approx 300.


----------



## BenjiDXB

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081111/BUSINESS/831532776/1041

Burj Dubai area and Reem Island in Abu Dhabi seem to be most affected as speculators never intended to continue paying according to the payment plans, says this article....


----------



## Mavekris

Its OMNIYAT'S turn to axe jobs

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/537921-omniyat-cuts-jobs-as-real-estate-squeeze-continues

There is no HIRING ONLY FIRING.

Suddenly i feel very satisfied with my present job.My boss is the best:lol::lol:


----------



## smussuw

BenjiDXB said:


> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081111/BUSINESS/831532776/1041
> 
> Burj Dubai area and Reem Island in Abu Dhabi seem to be most affected as speculators never intended to continue paying according to the payment plans, says this article....


Burj Dubai property prices fall


----------



## 234sale

Mavekris said:


> I was very confident that BurJ Dubai Area will be least affected considering it to be the Most exclusive square kilometer on Mother Earth.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/537938-property-prices-in-burj-tumble-up-to-50---report
> 
> SALE
> 
> May be you should consider buying one here instead of renting in old town.
> 
> Ubora will take 2yrs to complete any way.
> 
> 2yrs *140 is approx 300.


I know,, The issue is that I sent all my spare cash back, just before the exchange rates droped as I want to buy a house in the UK.
I sent back 500,000 which is now worth 400,000 if I send it back again.

Whats the cheapest I can find an old town unit for 2000 AED sqft ?
Lets say I can get a unit in Yasoon for 2,000,000 GF, 1000sqft with Garden. I have 200,000 cash at present sitting in my UAE account.

I need one with a garden as I have 3 cats.. 

I pay 165,000 in rent, I know my Landlord pays 40,000 to Emaar in SC fees.

If I go throught the process of buying Its going to probably 2% agency fee and 2% transfer fee that is 160,000 in fees. So lets assume the seller incease the price to 2,160,000 and I get paid back this after the transfer.

2,000,000 to borrow at 6% is going to cost 120,000 a year. 

I still think Yansoon is under valued at this price, but with my rent fixed its not worth me buying. I can effectively step out of the apartment at any time.. 

I am currently saving, I will buy 1000 sqft of Commercial Space but I need to have around 500,000 before I will start offering on BB Developments. I will start probably my own Business from this space or set up a consultancy firm.

smussuw, do fancy being my local partner...


----------



## Mavekris

SMUSSUW


Does this mean that this is the official burst of much talked bubble?hno:


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ In a correction prices everywhere would fall. But it would be interesting to see which ones recover first when its over.


----------



## noir-dresses

real estate prices most likely will hold value in dubai
http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/11122008_7c5555debb4443c49c8d9423c73db506.aspx


----------



## 234sale

Actually I think we need to consider that what 500,000AED would get you in most currencies compared to now 400,000 AED

25% Exchange rate change with most major currencies. Everything in Dubai effectively became 25% more expensive in 1 month

Imports became 25% cheaper


----------



## noir-dresses

UAE economy will with stand world economic crisis, and wont crumble like the United States economy
http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/11122008_9b0f28019eae4d64b02de487349e2fdf.aspx


----------



## skdubai

deleted... no comments..


----------



## smussuw

Mavekris said:


> SMUSSUW
> 
> 
> Does this mean that this is the official burst of much talked bubble?hno:


Not before rents for 2 rooms in SZR goes back to 70k a year 




234sale said:


> I know,, The issue is that I sent all my spare cash back, just before the exchange rates droped as I want to buy a house in the UK.
> I sent back 500,000 which is now worth 400,000 if I send it back again.
> 
> Whats the cheapest I can find an old town unit for 2000 AED sqft ?
> Lets say I can get a unit in Yasoon for 2,000,000 GF, 1000sqft with Garden. I have 200,000 cash at present sitting in my UAE account.
> 
> I need one with a garden as I have 3 cats..
> 
> I pay 165,000 in rent, I know my Landlord pays 40,000 to Emaar in SC fees.
> 
> If I go throught the process of buying Its going to probably 2% agency fee and 2% transfer fee that is 160,000 in fees. So lets assume the seller incease the price to 2,160,000 and I get paid back this after the transfer.
> 
> 2,000,000 to borrow at 6% is going to cost 120,000 a year.
> 
> I still think Yansoon is under valued at this price, but with my rent fixed its not worth me buying. I can effectively step out of the apartment at any time..
> 
> I am currently saving, I will buy 1000 sqft of Commercial Space but I need to have around 500,000 before I will start offering on BB Developments. I will start probably my own Business from this space or set up a consultancy firm.
> 
> smussuw, do fancy being my local partner...


I wish I have that money now :lol: I've invested most of it in the stock market and I've already lost half of my profit hno: I wish I didn't buy back anything last month :bash:


----------



## Mavekris

234sale said:


> I need one with a garden as I have 3 cats..
> 
> 
> If I go throught the process of buying Its going to probably 2% agency fee and 2% transfer fee that is 160,000 in fees.
> 
> 
> smussuw, do fancy being my local partner...


Cats.what is your address?
I will call 800900 and get free gift.http://www.gulfnews.com/Nation/General/10256518.html

2% Agency 2% Transfer fees is history now.
Try Expat.com Nakheel fees is 5000,not sure about Emaar.

Smussuw might consider you if you fancy changing your religion.joking


----------



## 234sale

Yep 3 cats, fully vacinated and registered.
They are part of my family and I would protect them in the same way. 

Land Registry is 1.5%, hence the 2%

smussuw, I reacon Emaar will be 3AED by Dec 08...


----------



## Wannaberich

Whos panicking?Are u?I'm not.Its pretty stormy out there at the moment but things will settle down.I'm not seeing prices nosedive across the board.Here and there you can find a good offer but its still not across the board.Rents are still rising.
Dubai is still a good place to invest in compared to many other countries.Launches have come to a standstill.Supply will now be seriously affected and will not meet demand for a long time yet.
Come March maybe the storm may be over and people will feel confident again.The money being lent to banks will hopefully be well in the system by then.Low interest rates worldwide will help.Dubias prices are still well below many other cities.Long term Dubai is still a safe bet considering what kind of city it will become.


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> I wish I have that money now :lol: I've invested most of it in the stock market and I've already lost half of my profit hno: I wish I didn't buy back anything last month :bash:


No need to worry, you can still sell your 15 br villa for half the price.......:bash:

Gear up for Plan B, its party time!


----------



## kano

234sale said:


> Yep 3 cats, fully vacinated and registered.
> They are part of my family and I would protect them in the same way.
> 
> Land Registry is 1.5%, hence the 2%
> 
> smussuw, I reacon Emaar will be 3AED by Dec 08...


Is the land registry fee not 1% ?


----------



## smussuw

interesting article in New York Times 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/world/middleeast/12dubai.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


Emirates See Fiscal Crisis as Chance to Save Culture










By MICHAEL SLACKMAN
Published: November 11, 2008
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — The world financial crisis has hit Dubai’s economy, slamming the brakes on its surging development and dimming its gold rush status. Development projects are being delayed, tourism is expected to decline and the government is even exploring how to begin collecting taxes, once almost unthinkable in this freest of free market enclaves.










Tamara Abdul Hadi for The New York Times
An Emirati man rides a Segway in Dubai, United Arab Emirates.
All this is troubling news for the fortune seekers who flocked here in recent years but a surprisingly welcome development in some respects for one group: Emirati natives, the 10 percent or so who trace their lineage to the Bedouins and traders who once had this baking sliver of sand to themselves.

Emiratis have fretted for years over the loss of their culture, as social norms became more a product of the newcomers than of the nationals. Now, some are pinning their desires for a cultural salvation on the global economic downturn, which they hope will reduce the number of foreigners pouring into their country and give them a chance to reassert their customs and way of life.

“This is a blessing; we needed it,” Abdul Khaleq Abdullah, a political science professor at United Arab Emirates University, said of the fiscal crisis. “The city needs to slow down and relax. It’s good for the identity of our country.

“The city reached the summit, but we knew every time we got closer to the top, we got closer to the edge, too,” he added. “That’s the feeling inside each Emirati. When we felt like we had it all, we also felt like we will lose it all.”

The sudden cold snap in the economy, more than in societies in the West and the Far East, has forced a collective rethinking of the country’s direction. Perhaps the most difficult question is being asked by Emiratis themselves, who want to know where they fit into their own country. In an odd case of role reversal, the minority of nationals fear they are becoming like colonial lords in their own country.

“I’m not just concerned about my future, I’m concerned about the future of my country,” said Rashid Ali, 24. He and his friend Fahd Muhammad, 25, were the only Emiratis seated in a crowded city mall last week. “I’m concerned about our national identity,” Mr. Ali said.

He and Mr. Muhammad embody the challenges and contradictions that have roiled this country, forcing a top-to-bottom reassessment in the face of a financial crush that has cut off the easy money that was the lifeblood of the development boom.

The local population has largely been pacified by the largess of a gilded welfare state. For Mr. Ali and Mr. Muhammad, that meant free tuition and expenses for their university studies in Britain, including a monthly stipend of $1,258 while abroad.

Returning from school this year, they were given government jobs that pay $3,600 a month, which like all income here is tax free. When they plan to marry, they said, the government will give them each a piece of land free and about $200,000 to build a house, plus access to a 10- or 20-year interest-free loan.

That generosity is a problem now, as the government faces the prospect of having to control spending, raise revenue and encourage its own citizens to move into industries like finance and banking, which are now controlled by foreigners. Locals make up only 3 percent of the private work force, experts here said, with Emiratis opting for the shorter workday and higher pay of guaranteed government jobs.

The problem is that many like Mr. Ali and Mr. Muhammad say they enjoy what they get from the growth — the luxury villas and fancy cars — but not the costs in terms of social change. If the economy slows too much, however, the fear is that the costs may ultimately outweigh the benefits.

“Most people worry now, where is the welfare government?” said Salah Al Halyan, a financial consultant in Dubai, who explained the concerns of Emiratis. “Where is all the comfort? Where is my country? Who are all these people coming? The problem is the attitude of the nationals. They want to live on food stamps.”

As the two men walked amid a sea of foreigners in the mall, they alternated between pride in the development and anger about what they called a loss of control of their national identity.

“We are Bedouins, developed Bedouins, but we still have our traditions,” Mr. Ali said. “It’s all changing and disappearing.”

And then with deep sarcasm, he said, “What’s up, dude?” a phrase as alien to his culture as blue jeans and, now, as common in his city as blue jeans.

Sultan al-Suwaidi, a banker and member of the National Council, which serves as a kind of parliament or advisory board, said that he was hoping that the country would rethink its development model over the next decade and substantially reduce the number of foreigners. “We have to bring our percentages up to 40 percent; then there will be good control in our society,” he said.

The financial crisis has also forced Emiratis to confront another fundamental question: Would the United Arab Emirates respond to the problems as one country or as seven separate entities, with Dubai in particular taking a go-it-alone approach? The answer, so far, has been one country, financial analysts said.

Dubai and the six other emirates that make up the United Arab Emirates form a loose federation that gained independence in 1971. While always a commercial crossroads, a hub for trade and a center of the pearl industry, Dubai did not have its first concrete building until 1956. It relied on the Indian rupee as its currency until the early 1960s. Abu Dhabi, with its hefty oil reserves and huge wealth, was the political center of the emirates, its leader was the president of the federation.

At the highest levels, Dubai and Abu Dhabi worked together to transform Dubai into a global destination for investment and development. But there was also an undercurrent of competition, with Abu Dhabi taking a slower, more conservative, petro-fueled approach while Dubai moved so fast that, at times, it was compared to a theme park. But when the financial storms appeared, Dubai — with a debt of nearly $50 billion — turned to the federal government, which quickly agreed to inject billions of dollars.

“There is this question in the market whether Dubai is on its own, or is there a one-country approach,” said Marios Maratheftis, regional director of research at Standard Chartered, a Dubai-based bank. “There are signs there is a one-country approach.”

These are the kinds of issues that the founders of the Cultural and Scientific Association, a public-private group devoted to promoting Emirati culture, take up every Monday night, when they gather to debate and exchange ideas. The association’s new building was opened in January, but it usually stands empty.

On a recent Monday, 12 men sat in the lobby, designed to resemble a courtyard in a traditional house. They ate only traditional food, mostly beans and flat breads, and spoke a lot about the city’s demographic composition and its cultural identity, and how to get more Emiratis into the private work force.

“I hear this complaint over and over, but what is the solution?” said Abdul Ghaffar Hussain, a businessman and writer. “What should I do, go to the street with a stick and chase people out? You have to be reasonable.”

Bilal al-Bodour, a deputy minister of culture for the United Arab Emirates, walked through the building, showing it off with pride, and hope.

“You have to learn about yourself and where you are coming from, before you can know others,” he said. “Everybody is concerned about this. It’s just a matter of degrees.”


----------



## bizzybonita

Property prices in Burj Dubai tumble up to 50% - report


on Wednesday, 12 November 2008 

PRICE PLUNGE: Property prices in the Burj Dubai have dropped as much as 50 percent. (Getty Images)Property prices in Downtown Burj Dubai, Emaar Properties' flagship development, have fallen at least 22 percent, while prices in the Burj Dubai tower itself have tumbled as much as 50 percent, UAE daily The National reported on Wednesday, citing brokers.

UK-based property consultants Sherwoods said prices, excluding the tower, had fallen from an average of 3,500 dirhams ($952) per square foot to 2,700 dirhams in Downtown Burj Dubai, according to the newspaper.

*The National did not say over what period prices fell. The newspaper did not detail what prices had fallen from and to in the Burj Dubai itself.*

Brokers said Downtown Burj Dubai had seen some of the biggest price drops in Dubai because prices had previously risen so quickly.

Figures from international real estate agency Hamptons show prices in the development rose by an average of 88 percent in the year to September, the newspaper said.

Vincent Easton, the head of sales at Sherwoods, told Arabian Business property prices had fallen in Downtown Burj Dubai, as they had across the city, but stressed fundamentals in the area "are very strong".

Easton said the recent "sharp correction" in prices had been caused by short-term speculators fleeing the market, but that the medium- to long-term outlook was still very healthy.

"If you're looking to invest in property over the next five to 10 years you cannot go wrong," he said. "We are telling our clients that if you can, hold [onto your properties]." 

Imre it's time to look for studio i guess :cheers:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/537938-property-prices-in-burj-tumble-up-to-50---report


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## smussuw

Meraas have sacked some of its staff ....


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Property sale prices have softened month-on-month for the first time on record, falling by 4 per cent in Dubai and 5 per cent in Abu Dhabi, while rental yields have grown, according to an HSBC survey.

“Despite market tightness, Abu Dhabi prices appear to be down due to its heavy off-plan weighting,” analysts said in the bank’s monthly secondary-market survey of the UAE. “Nonetheless, the only development that is ready, Raha Gardens, was down 2 per cent month-on-month.”

In Dubai, the villas and flats markets saw different trends. According to the report, advertised villa prices fell by 19 per cent from September after several banks reduced mortgage loan-to-value ratios in August and September. But average apartment asking prices in Dubai were flat, which analysts attributed to an increase in sales at high-end projects.

The HSBC survey also found that for the first time since the first quarter of last year, rental yields expanded last month due to lower asset prices and seemingly tight supply. “Month-on-month implied gross yields increased from 4.7 per cent to 6.3 per cent. However, rental demand is likely to remain robust as we sense potential buyers are deferring their plans until there is better visibility in the credit markets,” the survey said.

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081112/BUSINESS/623814845/-1/SPORT


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

bizzybonita said:


> Property prices in Burj Dubai tumble up to 50% - report
> 
> Easton said the recent "sharp correction" in prices had been caused by short-term speculators fleeing the market




At least 234Sale, OTR and I will have more neighbors...


----------



## 234sale

I think Emaar has still many units in the Old Town,, My Yasoon Car park is only ever 70% full. 

This is the true impact on Emaar Stock,, the amount of property still on their books.

It is not a supply and demand issue,, It is a currency issue. 30% Apreciation of the dollar.

Hence why rentals are still strong as people are being paid in AED, Renting in AED..

But Credit Crunch effects also have to be considered, though typically majority of people I know are cash buyers.

RERA Update


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## nagshah

Any one following the prices for Al Furjan? I heared that in the secondary market you can find villas wiht negative premuim??!!


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## docc

I haven't seen any personally but i'm sure you'll find some with negative premiums. A lot of people have purchased by paying 10% and hoped to flip it within a few months to make a quick buck; and now they can't. It's as simple as that.

I've invested here myself, but i'm in it for the long haul as i wish to use it as my family home, so i don't really care what the prices are right now. If you haven't invested here, then yea, try to grab good deals which i'm sure you'll find plenty of. If you have invested here and are in it for long term, just sit back and relax as you've made a sound investment.

Don't get carried away by what's happening around you; what's important is what you're in it for  By the way, show homes are now open for viewing by appointment so go on and have a lookie!


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## IISinbadII

*Emaar relaxes payment in effort to kick-start demand*

by Dylan Bowman

Emaar Properties, the Middle East’s largest real estate developer, has relaxed the payment plan for purchasing properties at its projects in Dubai in an effort to kick-start flagging demand.

Emaar on Wednesday launched a scheme that extends property payments over five years after handover and one where potential buyers can rent a property before deciding whether to purchase it.

The global financial crisis has hit demand from foreign investors, which make up a large percentage of property buyers in Dubai, while tightening liquidity has made home financing more difficult.
Story continues below ↓
advertisement

Real estate agents said the scheme could boost Emaar's property sales.

"I think this move could boost demand... There is no shortage of demand for ready properties, it is just finding affordable properties and getting access to the funds [that is the problem]," said Vincent Easton, head of sales at Sherwoods.

Emaar said the ‘Plan to Own’ scheme allowed buyers to pay 25 percent of the property price after handover through annual payments over five years.

Emaar said the scheme was aimed at bridging “the current gap due to lower loan to value ratios offered by banks and financial institutions”.

The developer also launched a ‘Rent to Own’ scheme whereby potential buyers can live in a property prior to buying, with the rent going towards the purchase of the property if they decide to buy within 10 months of moving in.

Under the ‘Rent to Own’ scheme, the property price will be fixed for one year and potential buyers can switch over to the ‘Plan to Own’ scheme if they choose to purchase the property.

Emaar CEO Issam Galadari said in a statement the schemes would “make property more affordable for our customers”.

The announcement comes the same day as a report property prices in Emaar’s flagship development Downtown Burj Dubai have fallen at least 22 percent.

UAE daily The National reported prices in the Burj Dubai tower itself have tumbled as much as 50 percent, citing brokers.

Emaar's shares closed more than nine percent lower at 3.74 dirhams on Tuesday, down more than 76 percent year-to-date.

Qatari developer The Land last week cut in half the downpayment investors need to pay when buying certain properties on the Pearl-Qatar, a manmade island being built of the coast of Doha.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/538024-emaar-relaxes-payment-in-effort-to-kick-start-demand


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## IISinbadII

*UAE Central bank considers real estate loans*

Bank considers providing easier mortgages for individuals and institutions to help offset a property price correction.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...albankconsiderssupportingrealestateloans.aspx


----------



## High Times

*I HATE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO AGAIN, BUT......*



High Times said:


> *I think Burj Dubai area is overvalued. *
> 
> Mainly because prices have been elevated based on hype. We all know that Burj Dubai will not be the tallest building on Earth for ever, it may not even be for 5 years. My doubts over the validity of this districts prices are that there is nothing special about Burj Dubai besides the tallest tower in the world that has a limited lifetime on it’s status.





High Times said:


> I see that DBD is currently overvalued, and Marina is currently undervalued. Burj Dubai has undoubtedly been a major influence on the status of this area as the worlds tallest structure. I am not convinced that this is a sound fundamental on which to base property price increases on.





High Times said:


> i respect your views, but i have to say that personally i think DBD is the most overvalued area in Dubai at the moment.
> 
> Very good marketing by Emaar and Dubai PLC.
> 
> When a correction occurs it will be proportionate in terms of relative overvaluations.
> 
> Anything above AED3k psf for uncompleted property is crazy.





High Times said:


> Lets see what happens to prices in DBD that were snapped up off plan for 5k +


Burj Dubai tower sees 50% drop in property prices

United Arab Emirates: 9 hours, 9 minutes ago
Real estate prices in Downtown Burj Dubai, Emaar Properties' flagship development, have fallen at least 22%, while prices in the Burj Dubai tower itself have dropped as much as 50%, reported The National. UK-based property consultants Sherwoods said prices in the development, excluding the tower, had fallen from an average of 3,500 dirhams ($952) per square foot to Dhs2,700. Brokers said Downtown Burj Dubai had seen some of the biggest price drops in Dubai because prices had previously risen so sharply.

http://www.ameinfo.com/175305.html

*Didn't anyone else see this coming ???*


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> *Didn't anyone else see this coming ???*




Probably a load of people around Dubai who don't read this thread.


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ HT, do you think DBD prices will fall while prices at other areas stay high?

In a true correction all areas should fall. Once its over, prices would start rising in a more rational fashion. And ultimately downtown prices, may it be DBD, BB or DIFC, should reflect its importance as the center of any city would. At the end of the day, a 1 br in downtown should always cost more than say a 1 br in JLT or Greens. 

And this does not mean one is better than the other (since that is a matter of personal preference, convenience and lifestyle). But if you want capital appreciation, I still think downtown is the place to be i.e. in the long run.


----------



## Philippa C

The Burj area is still far from completion and I believe that prices will pick up again when the Burj is finished. It is a unique and fantastic development and in time prices will again reflect that.


----------



## tiny

*lending*

banks in dubai are not helping the secondary market-they are running scared and not lending to ex pats/people who live outside the uae but have property interests.they should judge each person on their individual circumstances

anyone know which banks in uae still prepared to stick their necks out and lend to people who do not reside in uae?

ta

tiny


----------



## first timer

*Taken from press*

Even Dubai, the seemingly invincible ‘nothing can stop me now' emirate is feeling the effects of the credit crunch, with property prices in some of Dubai's most prestigious developments falling by as much as 50 per cent... 

Prices in the Downtown Burj Dubai area have fallen by as much as half, according to Dubai based estate agents. Because prices in the area had previously risen so high and so fast, when the slowdown happened, it affected that area, one of the most exclusive in Dubai, far more than others. 

Whilst prices in the area were around £652 per square foot, they are now sitting at around £482. Downtown Burj Dubai, a mixed use urban development that includes the recently opened Dubai Mall, has some of the most expensive properties in the Emirate. The Burj Dubai Tower, due for completion next year, will put the area further onto the map. 

This fall in property values has been pinned on the global crisis and current investors who have liquidated their assets in Dubai in order to get some ready cash. 

Whilst short term investors are running scared and selling their properties for far lower prices, long term investors are sitting still holding onto their properties, confident that prices will rise once more. 

When the Dubai market does begin to pick up again, properties in the most exclusive areas, including Downtown Burj Dubai, should improve before the rest. 

Arabian Business has reported that Palm Jebel Ali's island prices have depreciated by 40 per cent in the last two months. 

To make matters worse, local Dubai mortgage providers have reduced home financing loan-to-value (LTV) to about 70 per cent down from 90 per cent last month. 

Five and six bedroom villas on the island used to be valued at around £3 million. In the last couple of months however these prices depreciated to £1.5 million instead - a huge loss for current property owners. 

According to HSBC Holdings, overall property prices in Dubai fell by four per cent between September and October, with the price of villas tumbling 19 per cent due to slowing demand and tighter lending conditions. 

The report is the first official statistical evidence of a correction in the UAE housing market after years of rapid growth. 

Lloyds TSB has stopped offering home loans to people wanting to buy apartments in the UAE due to the escalating credit crunch.

The bank, Britain's third largest mortgage lender, said it had also dropped its loan to value ratio on villas in the UAE to 50 per cent, meaning buyers can only borrow half the value of the property.

Many other banks and mortgage lenders have reduced their loan-to-value ratios from 90 percent to 60 per cent over the last couple of months.


----------



## Morrismarina

first timer said:


> Even Dubai, the seemingly invincible ‘nothing can stop me now' emirate is feeling the effects of the credit crunch, with property prices in some of Dubai's most prestigious developments falling by as much as 50 per cent...
> 
> Prices in the Downtown Burj Dubai area have fallen by as much as half, according to Dubai based estate agents. Because prices in the area had previously risen so high and so fast, when the slowdown happened, it affected that area, one of the most exclusive in Dubai, far more than others.
> 
> Whilst prices in the area were around £652 per square foot, they are now sitting at around £482. Downtown Burj Dubai, a mixed use urban development that includes the recently opened Dubai Mall, has some of the most expensive properties in the Emirate. The Burj Dubai Tower, due for completion next year, will put the area further onto the map.
> 
> This fall in property values has been pinned on the global crisis and current investors who have liquidated their assets in Dubai in order to get some ready cash.
> 
> Whilst short term investors are running scared and selling their properties for far lower prices, long term investors are sitting still holding onto their properties, confident that prices will rise once more.
> 
> When the Dubai market does begin to pick up again, properties in the most exclusive areas, including Downtown Burj Dubai, should improve before the rest.
> 
> Arabian Business has reported that Palm Jebel Ali's island prices have depreciated by 40 per cent in the last two months.
> 
> To make matters worse, local Dubai mortgage providers have reduced home financing loan-to-value (LTV) to about 70 per cent down from 90 per cent last month.
> 
> Five and six bedroom villas on the island used to be valued at around £3 million. In the last couple of months however these prices depreciated to £1.5 million instead - a huge loss for current property owners.
> 
> According to HSBC Holdings, overall property prices in Dubai fell by four per cent between September and October, with the price of villas tumbling 19 per cent due to slowing demand and tighter lending conditions.
> 
> The report is the first official statistical evidence of a correction in the UAE housing market after years of rapid growth.
> 
> Lloyds TSB has stopped offering home loans to people wanting to buy apartments in the UAE due to the escalating credit crunch.
> 
> The bank, Britain's third largest mortgage lender, said it had also dropped its loan to value ratio on villas in the UAE to 50 per cent, meaning buyers can only borrow half the value of the property.
> 
> Many other banks and mortgage lenders have reduced their loan-to-value ratios from 90 percent to 60 per cent over the last couple of months.


Great news for investors in the rental market. :banana:


----------



## Imre

bizzybonita said:


> Property prices in Burj Dubai tumble up to 50% - report
> 
> 
> on Wednesday, 12 November 2008
> 
> PRICE PLUNGE: Property prices in the Burj Dubai have dropped as much as 50 percent. (Getty Images)Property prices in Downtown Burj Dubai, Emaar Properties' flagship development, have fallen at least 22 percent, while prices in the Burj Dubai tower itself have tumbled as much as 50 percent, UAE daily The National reported on Wednesday, citing brokers.
> 
> UK-based property consultants Sherwoods said prices, excluding the tower, had fallen from an average of 3,500 dirhams ($952) per square foot to 2,700 dirhams in Downtown Burj Dubai, according to the newspaper.
> 
> *The National did not say over what period prices fell. The newspaper did not detail what prices had fallen from and to in the Burj Dubai itself.*
> 
> Brokers said Downtown Burj Dubai had seen some of the biggest price drops in Dubai because prices had previously risen so quickly.
> 
> Figures from international real estate agency Hamptons show prices in the development rose by an average of 88 percent in the year to September, the newspaper said.
> 
> Vincent Easton, the head of sales at Sherwoods, told Arabian Business property prices had fallen in Downtown Burj Dubai, as they had across the city, but stressed fundamentals in the area "are very strong".
> 
> Easton said the recent "sharp correction" in prices had been caused by short-term speculators fleeing the market, but that the medium- to long-term outlook was still very healthy.
> 
> "If you're looking to invest in property over the next five to 10 years you cannot go wrong," he said. "We are telling our clients that if you can, hold [onto your properties]."
> 
> Imre it's time to look for studio i guess :cheers:
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/537938-property-prices-in-burj-tumble-up-to-50---report


What I have found,cheapest studio of Burj Dubai is 4 million which is almost 8000 dhs/sqft, I dont think that the 50% is true, maybe some people need money and they want a quick sale.
What will be happening if I put in the Gulfnews some adverts for 10.000-12.000 dhs/sqft, newspapers will say , prices jumped 100%?

Anyway,no handovers, nothing new construction in the last couple months , will be a big gap in the market,I think government try to organise the market.


----------



## Pleth

*Aspire*

Taken from http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=27932834#post27932834 no. 449. 

Gulf news article 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am very surprised to find following article in today's or in Europe's case tomorrow's Gulf news.

Things are definately changing in Dubai 

Please can all you doubters read the bit which I have highlighted for you . 

Remember acording to the manager no court case and no criminal record.



Real Estate Property 

Aspire draws ire of property investors 
By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: November 12, 2008, 23:42


Dubai: Investors are increasingly concerned about their investments in all developments of Aspire Real Estate, including Elements and Jehaan in Jumeirah Village South.

Investors are worried that their money has been used for personal use by the manager of Aspire, as they have been left with no money and no apartments.

*The manager was recently sentenced to three years in jail for bounced cheques according to records from Dubai courts. However, the case has now been taken to the appeal court and the next hearing is due on November 18.*

The manager denied he had a case against him when speaking to Gulf News on Tuesday.

"There is one court case, but it is something we filed against High Rise Real Estate as they didn't pay us what was due (Dh200 million)," the manager said. 


Furious investors bought their apartments in Aspire's Jehaan development in Jumeirah Village South since 2007.

Most of the investors have paid at least a 10 per cent deposit (Dh80,000), with one paying around 33 per cent, despite not having a contract. Investors were told Jehaan would be ready by January 2009 but construction hasn't even started.

It also transpires that when Aspire was selling the units, they did not legally own the land. 

The manager said originally the land was owned by offshore company Noorzak Investments, but one of the directors of Noorzak "went into his set of problems".

Transfer process

"When we went to transfer the land, we realised that Noorzak had some problems with Nakheel with two other plots which they owned in JVS and hence Nakheel refused to make any transfer until the issue was sorted out," the manager said in a statement online.

By the time this happened, an extra 25 per cent payment on the land was due and the transfer process was further delayed, the manager added. At this time, Rera and therefore the escrow account law were not yet in place in Dubai.

When investors contacted Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) in April this year, senior legal officer Khowla Madani replied that Rera would look into the matter.

"I was informed that the plot has never been transferred to their name and as I can see from their email, there is too much misleading information."

"If the same were confirmed, strict legal action shall be taken against Aspire Real Estate and this email shall be forwarded to management of Rera to decide the proper action," Madani writes.

The manager told Gulf News the project "is definitely going ahead" and when asked if investors would get refunds if requested, he replied, "Yes, 100 per cent."


----------



## houshang

At last something is happening on Palm Jebel Ali. New site for PJA is now up and running at www.thepalm.ae


----------



## 234sale

1 British pound = 5.46806987 United Arab Emirates dirhams 
omg


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

*The only thing slightly more depressing than the Investment forum is probably going to a funeral...*

Has the market changed --> Yes
Are we in a correction --> Yes
Are we in a crash --> No

Everyone needs to relax and know that we are in a world wide global recession... Dubai is not the city on the hill that is immune from everything around it... Once everything turns around, Dubai will turn around... 

Price fluctuations here in Dubai will obviously be steeper and sharper... You had to realize that when you got into the market... But bear in mind, that once the market turns positive again, which it will... we should have a much faster recovery than other countries... (for the thousands of reasons listed in previous posts)

*So once again, if you are an end-user or an landlord, sit back, relax, and turn off the news for a year or so... We will all be fine...*

If you bought off-plan at 7000 psf in Downtown, 5000 psf in BB, 1300 in Jumeirah Village, or 15,000,000 for a piece of land on the Jebel Ali Palm for the quick flip... then I wish you the best of luck... you are going to need it... 

BTW, the article in The National is complete rubbish... prices have fallen, but not by 50%... made me wonder if I was reading "The National" or "The Enquirer"... piss poor journalism...


----------



## Opus 2009

Yes that's what the law says. Developer also has the right to apply for specific performance of the contract, and is only required to refund the amount above 30% once the property is resold.


----------



## 234sale

I wish I had the answers..

It is a new addition to a new law..


----------



## Wannaberich

1000 posts ! Do I get some kind of prize or something ?


----------



## FWIW

Here have a pint: :cheers:


----------



## 234sale

Wannaberich said:


> 1000 posts ! Do I get some kind of prize or something ?


:cheers: congrats


----------



## kano

Wannaberich said:


> 1000 posts ! Do I get some kind of prize or something ?


Yeah . Stop thinking opf becoming a MOD!!!.:bash::cheers:CONGRATULATIONS is all that you will get.


----------



## Wannaberich

Errrr,so its looking like no prize.Be asking again when I reach 2000.


----------



## Arno Salzl

nagshah said:


> Any one following the prices for Al Furjan? I heared that in the secondary market you can find villas wiht negative premuim??!!


It seems that some Quortaj Terrace Townhouses, middle units, phase 2, go with negative premium, but phase 1 (exactly the same houses) sell with at least 5% premium

wait and see


----------



## IISinbadII

*Off-plan cancellations will force buyers to forfeit 30% of total value* 

By Anjana Kumar on Thursday, November 13, 2008

Off-plan buyers wishing to halt purchases will have to obtain a cancellation notification from the developer and forfeit 30 per cent of the total value of the units, it was revealed yesterday.

The announcement by Dubai Land Department is intended to deter speculation in Dubai's property market.

It was previously understood that the penalty under Law No 13 regulating the interim real estate register would be just 30 per cent of the paid-up amount.

The department clarified the situation and said developers – not buyers – would have to initiate the official procedure to cancel the off-plan transactions.

"This is a positive step for the real estate market in Dubai and will keep a check on speculators," said Marwan bin Ghalita, CEO of the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera). "*Only speculators and realty gamblers in Dubai will be badly hurt by this law*."

Emad Eldin Farouq, Dubai Land Department's Senior Legal Adviser, said: "*Our objective is to stop cancellations by off-plan buyers. We have seen people have been panicking and are concerned about the future of the Dubai realty market and as a result have been selling. We are looking to stop this*."

"The developer will notify the Land Department on the cancellation of an off-plan unit and only then will we put the procedures in place. We are not telling a buyer he is stuck with his property, we are actually giving him a way out of this.

Article 11 of Law No 13 says *a developer should inform the land department if a buyer breaches the sales contract. The department will then notify the purchaser in person or by registered mail or e-mail and give him 30 days to fulfill his contractual obligations. At the end of the term the developer will have the right to cancel the contract and refund the sum paid by the buyer after deducting an amount not exceeding 30 per cent of the total value of the unit.*

Dubai Land Department Director-General Sultan Butti bin Mijrin said: "The interpretation of Article 11 will protect the rights of developers and buyers and maintain the contractual balance."

The department said Article 11 would become effective immediately. Contracts executed prior to the enactment of the law would be subject to the terms of the contract between the developer and purchaser, while contracts executed after the would be subject to the rules of the law. *Developers welcomed the move to ensure speculators pay 30 per cent of the total value if a transaction is cancelled*.

Zaid Ghoul, Chief Financial Officer of Union Properties, said: "We are very pleased with this interpretation, it has answered many questions that were on everyone's minds. We believe this will help restore confidence in the overall market and will protect developers who will honour their commitment and deliver on their promises by handing over the sold units."

Deyaar CEO Markus Giebel said: "The law will keep the speculative buyers away and that is good for the real estate market in Dubai.

"With speculators there will be still enough buyers in the market. In any mature market a buyer should be able to afford to buy irrespective of market conditions."

Nakheel Legal Counsel David Nicholson said: "We welcome this clarification and feel that it strikes a correct balance between the interests of both sellers and buyers." An Emaar spokesperson said: "We appreciate the Rera initiative, which will further strengthen the real estate sector."

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/11132008_2181bac283064cb797378a0ff24e1cd8.aspx#


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ So basically if someone has paid 20% so far, he will have to pay another 10%... just to get out of the off-plan purchase!!!!!!!!!! However this rule will apply to future contracts and not the previous ones. Right?


----------



## Arno Salzl

makerian said:


> Do you think that these smaller emirates have been directed to do this by the Capital, which wasn't too excited about granting residence visas to foreigners on the basis of property in the first place?


I do not understand quite well this discussion about residence visa for property owners.

I remember very well Sheikh Saif (bin Zayed al Nahyan, Federal Minister of Interior) saying that his department, and not Emaar, decides who is allowed to live in the UAE.

The law is the law. Nobody is allowed to reside in the UAE without sponsor (in case of -self- employed of a FZ LLC, the free zone beeing the sponsor).

Please correct me if I'am wrong.


----------



## Arno Salzl

Rumors that Sama fired 80 staff today.


----------



## bizzybonita

Imre said:


> What I have found,cheapest studio of Burj Dubai is 4 million which is almost 8000 dhs/sqft, I dont think that the 50% is true, maybe some people need money and they want a quick sale.
> What will be happening if I put in the Gulfnews some adverts for 10.000-12.000 dhs/sqft, newspapers will say , prices jumped 100%?
> 
> Anyway,no handovers, nothing new construction in the last couple months , will be a big gap in the market,I think government try to organise the market.


That's how Stoichkov playin :cheers:


----------



## IISinbadII

Arno Salzl said:


> I do not understand quite well this discussion about residence visa for property owners.
> 
> I remember very well Sheikh Saif (bin Zayed al Nahyan, Federal Minister of Interior) saying that his department, and not Emaar, decides who is allowed to live in the UAE.
> 
> The law is the law. Nobody is allowed to reside in the UAE without sponsor (in case of -self- employed of a FZ LLC, the free zone beeing the sponsor).
> 
> Please correct me if I'am wrong.


Uptill a few months back the Developers were sponsoring resident visas for property owners and the government was issuing them. Off course it was upto the concerned govt departments to issue or not to issue the visas. But basically property owners were getting visas based on ownership. And it has been like this for years.


----------



## first timer

*Docc*



docc said:


> Oh, i'm here and i'm happy as i'm a long term investor.
> 
> And don't you have anything better to do than provoke people? You really need to get a life. Has anyone ever told you that? They probably didn't want to waste their time just as i don't waste anymore of mine with you.
> 
> You can respond to his post, but don't expect a response from me. You're not worth it.
> 
> Word of advice to others; don't bother wasting your time with him/her/it/bot/troll/spammer as well. You guys have been warned! :cheers:


Did you not say I did not know what I was talking about when I warned you the BUBBLE was bursting, even I did not realise it would be this quick.

Anyway look at the positives, at least we have built the country for the the locals?

It was only 25 years ago some locals was driving donkeys but at least some can drive Rolls Royces on the back of the West building the place to what it is today.

A strood business move, BUT shame so many GREEDY investors out built the market through pure GREED


----------



## 234sale

simply not true.. first timer, 

Every market is suffering. The world has been built on greed.

This market was built by locals Emirati's, they opened it up to all.

Did you know the local sponsor system is a hand me down from British Rue so our government is to blame for that one.

What has hurt this market more is dollar strength, you have never mentioned this factor that the dollar would appreciate 35% against the Euro or Pound.


----------



## bizzybonita

Mavekris said:


> Who is Babu?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol::lol:


now i get it there elso another man next to him called bobe .

:lol::lol:


----------



## 234sale

From this morning


234sale said:


> 1 British pound = 5.46806987 United Arab Emirates dirhams
> omg


Tonight
£1 = 5.42703908AED

soon it will be £1=5AED

:nuts:


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> From this morning
> 
> 
> Tonight
> £1 = 5.42703908AED
> 
> soon it will be £1=5AED
> 
> :nuts:


Yes please ! and with that u will see every single property owned by the brits up for sale including mine !


----------



## smussuw

first timer said:


> Did you not say I did not know what I was talking about when I warned you the BUBBLE was bursting, even I did not realise it would be this quick.
> 
> Anyway look at the positives, at least we have built the country for the the locals?
> 
> It was only 25 years ago some locals was driving donkeys but at least some can drive Rolls Royces on the back of the West building the place to what it is today.
> 
> A strood business move, BUT shame so many GREEDY investors out built the market through pure GREED


First of all the bubble did not burst yet, it is a mere 5%. It will burst when it hit 50% !

2nd, locals were usually riding camels and not donkeys and that was 50-60 years ago not 25 years ago.

3rd, if we are going to appreciate anyone I would give the honer to the south Asians who moved their asses day and night to build this country. But at the end of the day it is the Emiratis who get trophy since they are the one who had the vision and made it happen. 

If they were so smart and almighty they should've built their countries instead ........


----------



## Imre

Wannaberich said:


> DSO is all leasehold.


*Residents of Dubai Silicon Oasis can choose from a wide variety of exceptional villas and apartments for both lease and freehold purchase.* With its proximity to the world renowned mega-development Dubailand, and quick easy access to the Dubai International Airport and the central business district, investments in Dubai Silicon Oasis will be among the best Dubai has to offer.

http://www.dso.ae/en/living-in-dso/living-in-dubai-silicon-oasis.html


----------



## High Times

mackie1964 said:


> There is a report coming up ver shortly on Bllomberg on Dubai and Abu Dhabi scale back


Probably plagiarised from this thread, with a few added images and a nice looking yank with perfect teeth presenting it.


----------



## smussuw

mackie1964 said:


> There is a report coming up ver shortly on Bllomberg on Dubai and Abu Dhabi scale back


how do u know if it is not up yet?


----------



## Wannaberich

Imre said:


> *Residents of Dubai Silicon Oasis can choose from a wide variety of exceptional villas and apartments for both lease and freehold purchase.* With its proximity to the world renowned mega-development Dubailand, and quick easy access to the Dubai International Airport and the central business district, investments in Dubai Silicon Oasis will be among the best Dubai has to offer.
> 
> http://www.dso.ae/en/living-in-dso/living-in-dubai-silicon-oasis.html


I wouldnt take too much notice of the DSO website,its pretty crap.
As far as I know all of DSO is leasehold.Maybe there are some freehold but I'm not aware of that.


----------



## noir-dresses

long term realty on trackk

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10259825.html


----------



## Wannaberich

mackie1964 said:


> There is a report coming up ver shortly on Bllomberg on Dubai and Abu Dhabi scale back


Damn it,just caught the last 20 secs.What did they say?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

bizzybonita said:


> We want all to participate in a joint answer to the question .
> 
> What are your expectations of the real estate market after two years from now?


My current opinion.

Projects to be cut back and delayed = less long term excitement, interest and motivation from buyers. (example, Dubailand cut back or severely delayed by 10 years). Many also invested in Dubai because they believed in its long term vision, now people are very doubtfull if they can afford to deliver within a reasonable time frame.

So demand will decrease but on the other hand there will be far fewer units so supply will reduce. I think supply will be less than demand now for many years so prices will be pushed up but at a slower rate due to harder lending conditions and generally cautious banks and people. I don't see prices rocketing back up more a slow steady climb. Maybe 3 or 4 years to get back to the highest prices we have seen already.


----------



## docc

High Times said:


> Probably plagiarised from this thread, with a few added images and a nice looking yank with perfect teeth presenting it.


:lol:

I wouldn't be surprised.


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai_Steve said:


> My current opinion.


When is the next rev of this?:lol::cheers:



> Damn it,just caught the last 20 secs.What did they say?


Did not see it, I was watching the kids football, 11-3 later 



smussuw said:


> how do u know if it is not up yet?


I had a phone call about it and I posted from the phone


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

bizzybonita said:


> We want all to participate in a joint answer to the question .
> 
> What are your expectations of the real estate market after two years from now?


The next 3 to 6 months will be a bloodbath... in 2 years, hopefully we will be at the beginning of the worldwide recovery from the recession... how long it will take to recover to pre-summer 2008 levels, I have no clue...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

With the pound and euro so weak it makes a lot of sense to sell now at a much lower price. For example selling at 1.7m now would give the same profit as selling at 2.1m did a few months back. The UK Pound / US rate may go back to 1.8 in 9 months time but the Dubai prices will still be low so there is a big incentive to exit now at a low price if you are not interested in keeping for renting in the long term and taking advatage of the high rental yields.

I think the bottom will not last too long as new investors (perhaps from the US) will come in and buy the high yielding bargain properties in a more completed environment.


----------



## noir-dresses

I don't see American's buying in dubai, even if there are bargain's cause they have even better bargain's at home at the moment, not to mention there stereotype of the middle east.

I see USD being at par, and higher than euro pretty soon.


----------



## skdubai

^^ agree about the investors, but i dont see the dollar and Euro at 1:1 (if that is what you mean). The dollar is on a short term spike, but the long term trend of the dollar over the past 2-3 decades has been drifting downwards. I do not see any reason why that trend would change now!!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

noir-dresses said:


> I don't see American's buying in dubai, even if there are bargain's cause they have even better bargain's at home at the moment, not to mention there stereotype of the middle east.
> 
> I see USD being at par, and higher than euro pretty soon.


May be bargains in the US but not high yielding bargains!


----------



## montranieri

*Which areas will loose less?*

Dears,

assuming that there will be no area unaffected on the downturn, let's now figure out which areas will suffer less in dubai considering the average market prices reached in september before the crisis.. 
No more then 3 areas

For me:

1) Dubai Marina
2) Springs
3) International city


----------



## Richard Head

Dubai_Steve said:


> My current opinion.
> 
> Projects to be cut back and delayed = less long term excitement, interest and motivation from buyers. (example, Dubailand cut back or severely delayed by 10 years). Many also invested in Dubai because they believed in its long term vision, now people are very doubtfull if they can afford to deliver within a reasonable time frame.
> 
> So demand will decrease but on the other hand there will be far fewer units so supply will reduce. I think supply will be less than demand now for many years so prices will be pushed up but at a slower rate due to harder lending conditions and generally cautious banks and people. I don't see prices rocketing back up more a slow steady climb. Maybe 3 or 4 years to get back to the highest prices we have seen already.


I would support that as a good anaysis Steve. I might even predict something more positive than that. Given that at the start of the downturn demand was way ahead of supply, and that it's likely that the current global doom will affect supply quicker than it will demand, I think prices for completed property will hold up, and rentals will definitely hold up or continue to increase (driven by lack of mortgage availability for those who would like to buy). 

To clarify further, I think there is potential for off-plan prices to fall off a cliff, and developers to follow like lemmings, such that only developments already fully funded and/or well on the way to completion will get finished. Whereas on the demand side, at the start of the correction there was already a lot of unfulfilled demand, and whilst the rate at which new expats land here will undoubtedly slow, even in a downturn Dubai still holds an attraction for many people living in places that are worse affected (UK for example). 

All this supports a massive crash in the overblown off-plan stuff, with completed property and rentals seeing continued growth (albeit much more slowly than in 2007/2008)


----------



## skdubai

At the start of the problem, the speculators were rampant. Isn't it possible that the over the head demand was not from end users but from speculators?? I think there is a demand supply mismatch but not to an extent that property prices warranted a 40% in a month kind of jump. I am positive it wont be a disaster, but i do see a correction on hand!!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

My worry is how much the demand will drop. Off plan will almost stop completely making the Dubai vision severely delayed but also many jobs will be lost (including those supporting/related industries) and many expats will leave Dubai. Some areas will not get completed and not be attractive to live in reducing demand more and more. Only completed areas or areas past the critical stage such as Dubai Marina may continue growing in demand. I worry how much of Dubai will be left unbuilt.


----------



## Naz UK

I just pulled out £350,000 worth of investments out of Dubai (despite losing around £50,000) I still made a tidy profit and probably technically made back my loss through exchange rate gains in the last few days!  So all in all, Dubai Inc. was a very interesting experience, and I'm glad I pulled out just when I did, worked out just fine! 

Now...i'm off to walk down the cobbly streets of Leeds, Bradford...York... Nottingham and that shithole down south that ppl call London... looking for burnt out shells ready to pump £350k into so I can do them up again and rent out to asylum seekers and prositutes (had to get that one in)... what credit crunch? It's the fucking lottery down here, where i'm at right now!!! :lol: See ya all in 3-5 years, when i'll be putting money back into Dubai when its time to pick up the pieces after the crash. :cheer:


----------



## Wannaberich

UK investors can't ignore whats happening to the pound right now.
The facts are simple as u all know.
If for example you own a villa worth 5maed thats around £909.000 based on a current exchange rate of around 5.5.Assuming prices drop 10% over the next 6 months,plus by then the pound goes back to a reasonable 6.5,your villa is then worth £692.000. A drop of £217.000( setting aside rental income if u rent)Thats a hell of a drop.
If your in it for the long haul and your sure prices will recover and continue to go up then thats up to you.It takes a brave man to look at the exchange rate
and not sell.
On the other hand,why not sell now,stick the money in your UK account,take advantage of the weak pound,wait six months for villas prices to drop and the pound to recover,then buy a villa at that point?Tempting?


----------



## ianxgrant

The 'Burst Bubble' depends on which currency you repatriate your cash to (if you're a non resident)
I had an off plan property which was worth 2.1 Million AED in June / July. I reckon it would now 'only' be worth 1.6 Million AED - *That means it's lost a quarter of it's value*
Funny thing is, in June the AED/GBP exchange rate was almost 7.2 to 1:
2.1 Million divided by 7.2 = 291,667 GBP

The exchange rate is currently 5.4 to 1:
1.6 Million divided by 5.4 = 296,296 GBP

It's an incredible burst - it would have made me four and a half grand in 5 months!......

Watch the property prices gradually rise again as the Eurozone currencies start to strengthen again in 2009. I don't think the prices of these properties will fall much (in real terms) once the flippers leave the market.


----------



## IISinbadII

first timer said:


> It was only a few weeks ago that I was one of the first to advise that the bubble was bursting and I was attacked by several members and told I did not know what I was talking about.
> 
> Now look at the recent posts, the majority are backing this fact and people like doc and mackie now avoid the issue.
> 
> Would you like my next prediction about the tax that will further screw your investments.


^^ What are you talking about man! 
So far no crash, no bubble burst. hno:

Some bargains in completed units at selected locations. Rentals going ahead full throttle. Only off-plan is not selling since speculators/flippers facing credit crunch and new rules. Realtors saying they lost 70% of their business because IMO 70% of their sales were off-plan.

And we already know that 5% VAT is coming.....so whats new?


----------



## docc

^^ Seriously, don't bother with him/her. It's really a waste of time and bandwidth!


----------



## 234sale

ianxgrant said:


> The 'Burst Bubble' depends on which currency you repatriate your cash to (if you're a non resident)
> I had an off plan property which was worth 2.1 Million AED in June / July. I reckon it would now 'only' be worth 1.6 Million AED - *That means it's lost a quarter of it's value*
> Funny thing is, in June the AED/GBP exchange rate was almost 7.2 to 1:
> 2.1 Million divided by 7.2 = 291,667 GBP
> 
> The exchange rate is currently 5.4 to 1:
> 1.6 Million divided by 5.4 = 296,296 GBP
> 
> It's an incredible burst - it would have made me four and a half grand in 5 months!......
> 
> Watch the property prices gradually rise again as the Eurozone currencies start to strengthen again in 2009. I don't think the prices of these properties will fall much (in real terms) once the flippers leave the market.


My point exactly.. I have matched the change in values to the currency curve.

Now I sold a Unit in August and repatriated the funds back to the UK. That was at 7AED to the Pound. From the peak in exchange rates we have seen a 40% change, strange how these are the values discussed as a property correction.


----------



## mackie1964

*Interesting article*

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/property/overseas/article5155142.ece


----------



## noir-dresses

first timer said:


> It was only a few weeks ago that I was one of the first to advise that the bubble was bursting and I was attacked by several members and told I did not know what I was talking about.
> 
> Now look at the recent posts, the majority are backing this fact and people like doc and mackie now avoid the issue.
> 
> Would you like my next prediction about the tax that will further screw your investments.


Let's not shut her out yet, we need to hear all sides of the spectrum. Basically her's is the worst case that can happen. 

Im still very optimistic on the long term out look.


----------



## Mavekris

noir-dresses said:


> Im still very optimistic on the long term out look.


^^So do you mean to say Dubai will be the only place which will recover from present situation in long term?

Do you think that Powerful countries like USA,UK and the rest will not recover?


----------



## Mavekris

Naz UK said:


> I just pulled out £350,000 worth of investments out of Dubai (despite losing around £50,000) I still made a tidy profit and probably technically made back my loss through exchange rate gains in the last few days!  So all in all, Dubai Inc. was a very interesting experience, and I'm glad I pulled out just when I did, worked out just fine!
> 
> Now...i'm off to walk down the cobbly streets of Leeds, Bradford...York... Nottingham and that shithole down south that ppl call London... looking for burnt out shells ready to pump £350k into so I can do them up again and rent out to asylum seekers and prositutes (had to get that one in)... what credit crunch? It's the fucking lottery down here, where i'm at right now!!! :lol: See ya all in 3-5 years, when i'll be putting money back into Dubai when its time to pick up the pieces after the crash. :cheer:



^^Probably the most wisest thing which i have heard since long time on this thread.


----------



## Arno Salzl

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ What are you talking about man!
> So far no crash, no bubble burst. hno:
> 
> Some bargains in completed units at selected locations. Rentals going ahead full throttle. Only off-plan is not selling since speculators/flippers facing credit crunch and new rules. Realtors saying they lost 70% of their business because IMO 70% of their sales were off-plan.
> 
> And we already know that 5% VAT is coming.....so whats new?


Stock exchange crash versus real estate correction

The UAE stocks are crashing like nowhere else. All shares related to the real estate are losing daily between 5 and 10%. Investors have just lost all confidence in the UAE RE market.
BUT
The RE market is not crashing. Today, there are a lot of people ready to buy the 2007 projects for 0% premium, the 2006 ones for 20% premium and much more for the completed ones.

It’s seem to me quite unique.


----------



## Wannaberich

As has been said,for alot of investors,even if property prices have dropped say 10%,
the stronger dollar has meant alot of ex-pats and foreign investors have lost nothing.
In fact,alot have actually gained.


----------



## IISinbadII

Other places should recover too. But Dubai is still in the early stages of development. Its an emerging market thus chances of appreciation are higher.


----------



## noir-dresses

Mavekris said:


> ^^So do you mean to say Dubai will be the only place which will recover from present situation in long term?
> 
> Do you think that Powerful countries like USA,UK and the rest will not recover?


The context of that post was regarding dubai Mavekris, as a mattter of fact Im going to Canada next monday for six month's to buy some more property in Toronto, and the States cause it's a buyer's market's at the moment, and my source's say it will get even worse before it get's better.

In my opinion the State's will get out of this mess first, then Europe. My other opinion is the USD will get stronger, and stronger, when USD surpases Euro, then it's time to invest in Europe. My opinion does'nt mean Im rite, it's just means that's the way Im going to pan my strategy.


----------



## rexdmx

noir-dresses said:


> Let's not shut her out yet, we need to hear all sides of the spectrum. Basically her's is the worst case that can happen.
> 
> Im still very optimistic on the long term out look.


first timer is a girl!!!!


----------



## nri-hotels

What about the concept of COUNTERTRADE ? It usually works in environments where there is lack of money, or the trust in it. 

I suppose one can barter one property for another. But there must be a trusted index of sorts, that uses a common set of standards, from which a buyer can gauge the value of his property in comparison to the seller's property. For example a property in Burj may equal two from Jumeirah.


----------



## BankerMan

Arno Salzl said:


> Stock exchange crash versus real estate correction
> 
> The UAE stocks are crashing like nowhere else. All shares related to the real estate are losing daily between 5 and 10%. Investors have just lost all confidence in the UAE RE market.
> BUT
> The RE market is not crashing. Today, there are a lot of people ready to buy the 2007 projects for 0% premium, the 2006 ones for 20% premium and much more for the completed ones.
> 
> It’s seem to me quite unique.


IMHO, there are several points that need to be considered when planning your strategy with respect to your real estate investments in Dubai:

(1) Of primary importance is Dubai Inc.'s financial status, which has taken quite a beating lately. This article here details Borse Dubai's syndicated loan (to finance its purchase of OMX) being priced at 6% above Libor -- for a total of about 8.25% for a 3-month loan. That, folks, is the kind of interest rate that is realized from Junk Bonds. Therefore, international banks consider Dubai Inc. as a terrible investment which is why they are charging such a high interest rate. Will this change in the future? Who knows!

(2) A lot of people have said that Abu Dhabi will step in and help Dubai Inc., which no doubt it will. However, I have not heard a single opinion anywhere about what Abu Dhabi will ask for in return. Certainly, Abu Dhabi is not going to hand over their cash to the folks over at Dubai Inc. for free, eh? They will definitely demand their "pound of flesh" -- which can be either financial (as in very high interest rates) or it can be political. Abu Dhabi's investment in Barclays is getting them a 13% return per annum......and the same will happen if they invest in Dubai Inc. Either way, this help will not be very palatable to the folks at Dubai Inc.

(3) Banks in the UAE are stretched too thin right now and even with all the help from the Central Bank, there is an ongoing liquidity crisis -- one that is unlikely to be resolved soon. Many banks have lent billions to finance property developers and investors, and with the current situation there is very little likelihood of these loans being repaid in the near future. With funds tied up in illiquid loans, most banks are now in absolutely no position to make new loans to property investors -- hence the rise in downpayment requirements and interest rates. From all that I've heard from my colleagues at other banks, these requirements will continue for a long while.

There are other factors in play right now which will cause the crisis in Dubai's Property and Stock markets to deepen further before the situation gradually starts to improve. When the improvement will come is anybody's guess -- sure, if you can predict the bottom of the markets, you can make a ton of money. Even a lot of Dubai citizens I have spoken to have been spooked by what's happening domestically and internationally and, they too, are digging in for a protracted period of volatility and uncertainty in the property market here.

For me personally, this is the time to sit back and relax.....I bought my properties a long time ago, prices have gone up nicely, and when I retire from the Bank I am working at, I will have a steady source of rental income and a house fully paid to live in.

Bon chance to all.


----------



## BankerMan

noir-dresses said:


> The context of that post was regarding dubai Mavekris, as a mattter of fact Im going to Canada next monday for six month's to buy some more property in Toronto, and the States cause it's a buyer's market's at the moment, and my source's say it will get even worse before it get's better.
> 
> In my opinion the State's will get out of this mess first, then Europe. My other opinion is the USD will get stronger, and stronger, when USD surpases Euro, then it's time to invest in Europe. My opinion does'nt mean Im rite, it's just means that's the way Im going to pan my strategy.


Smart move, Noir.....I agree the US will get out of this mess sooner than the rest, especially with the new administration.

And Treasury at most Banks agree the USDollar will continue to strengthen against most major currencies, now that the price of oil has dipped to below $60.

A further prediction I've heard is that oil will range between $50 to $70 until at least the end of next year. A report I read the other day said oil traders are speculating that oil prices will hit $30 by February next year -- however, I seriously doubt that it's going to go that low!!


----------



## nri-hotels

BankerMan said:


> Smart move, Noir.....I agree the US will get out of this mess sooner than the rest, especially with the new administration.
> 
> And Treasury at most Banks agree the USDollar will continue to strengthen against most major currencies, now that the price of oil has dipped to below $60.
> 
> A further prediction I've heard is that oil will range between $50 to $70 until at least the end of next year. A report I read the other day said oil traders are speculating that oil prices will hit $30 by February next year -- however, I seriously doubt that it's going to go that low!!


Your prediction sounds like a war in Gulf : dollar up, oil up.
Usually when dollar strengthens, oil price drops, and vice versa.

IMHO the dollar will crash, because USA has sobered up and starting to produce, not consume, and will need to export cheaply for a few years.

Middle East currencies should RE-PEG or UN-PEG their currencies otherwise they will suffer the same FX problem that hit Asian countries in 97/98, because of outflow of "hot" money.


----------



## BankerMan

nri-hotels said:


> Your prediction sounds like a war in Gulf : dollar up, oil up.
> Usually when dollar strengthens, oil price drops, and vice versa.
> 
> IMHO the dollar will crash, because USA has sobered up and starting to produce, not consume, and will need to export cheaply for a few years.
> 
> Middle East currencies should RE-PEG or UN-PEG their currencies otherwise they will suffer the same FX problem that hit Asian countries in 97/98, because of outflow of "hot" money.


Excuse me.........I did not predict oil prices going up. Matter of fact, oil will be $50 to $70, down from $100+ a couple of months ago.

War in the Gulf? Hardly likely!! There's one going on right now, there is no way another will happen. 

The dollar had crashed a while back, and in recent months it has appreciated quite nicely. Reason for dollar's appreciation is most governments bought in the "relative" safety of US Treasuries, hence sending Treasury prices up and yield down to a piddling 0.5%. Madness, if you ask me.......the US was the reason for this mess and yet demand for US Treasuries is up!!

Outflow of "hot" money already happened a couple of months ago when $50 billion left Dubai for greener (safer?) pastures -- the raison d'etre for the liquidity crisis in the first place.


----------



## docc

Emaar's new payment strategy:


----------



## skdubai

nri-hotels said:


> Your prediction sounds like a war in Gulf : dollar up, oil up.
> Usually when dollar strengthens, oil price drops, and vice versa.
> 
> IMHO the dollar will crash, because USA has sobered up and starting to produce, not consume, and will need to export cheaply for a few years.
> 
> Middle East currencies should RE-PEG or UN-PEG their currencies otherwise they will suffer the same FX problem that hit Asian countries in 97/98, because of outflow of "hot" money.



I suggest you go the thread about Dirham de-pegging to read about so many reasons why that is a bad idea....

The dollar was in trouble, but ina wierd twist of fate, the current crisis actually kinda saved it. But the real test for it comes when the world market recovers and money starts flowing out of the US T-bills. I do see the dollar resuming its downward course once that happens.....

One thing to remember is that the dollar is sort of a base currency for the fiat money system we are following today, so it is in the best interest of the world economies to prevent the Dollar from ever collapsing. If ever things get that bad (which they should already have) the world will work out another breton woods and save it and their own wealth!!


----------



## skdubai

BTW dont ask me who told me this, but i have heard from a rather respected source that the Abu dhabi govt. is buying up large portions of companies like Nakheel and Emaar. The media here is so unreliable, they never ever publish any relevant facts!!


----------



## FWIW

skdubai said:


> I suggest you go the thread about Dirham de-pegging to read about so many reasons why that is a bad idea....
> 
> The dollar was in trouble, but ina wierd twist of fate, the current crisis actually kinda saved it. But the real test for it comes when the world market recovers and money starts flowing out of the US T-bills. I do see the dollar resuming its downward course once that happens.....
> 
> One thing to remember is that the dollar is sort of a base currency for the fiat money system we are following today, so it is in the best interest of the world economies to prevent the Dollar from ever collapsing. If ever things get that bad (which they should already have) the world will work out another breton woods and save it and their own wealth!!


SKdubai - I would be interested on your thoughts about gold as you mentioned bretton woods. Maybe we should take this discussion to the dollar repeg thread. My personal view and hope is that we return to a gold standard.


----------



## smussuw

^^ I think everyone agree that dollar shouldn't be used as a base ...


----------



## dubaigreen

Funny to read all the stories. 6 Months ago, it was only up-and-up, never ending growth, and now people are talking about 3-5 years bad weather before Dubai continue the growth path. Fact of the matter is that Oil will be back once the world starts accelerating again, especially if the world is not investing enough in green energy in the meantime. Money will flow generously again to UAE, and we will see a continuation of the building of new cities. Long term, UAE can only become sustainable if they invest in green technologies and energy (I truly hope MASDAR will become a success). 

So, perhaps we should all stop talking and reading about it, and come back in April when Cityscape in AD starts. I have a little bit of hope that the world would look more positive by then.


----------



## skdubai

FWIW said:


> SKdubai - I would be interested on your thoughts about gold as you mentioned bretton woods. Maybe we should take this discussion to the dollar repeg thread. My personal view and hope is that we return to a gold standard.



Ok i will post the answer on the dollar de pegging thread...


----------



## IISinbadII

BankerMan said:


> Outflow of "hot" money already happened a couple of months ago when $50 billion left Dubai for greener (safer?) pastures -- the raison d'etre for the liquidity crisis in the first place.


I was reading somewhere that a lot of money had moved into Dubai earlier in anticipation of dirham revaluation. That money left Dubai after these hopes faded. 



> A lot of people have said that Abu Dhabi will step in and help Dubai Inc., which no doubt it will. However, I have not heard a single opinion anywhere about what Abu Dhabi will ask for in return.


Thats one brother helping the other. At least the money will stay at home.

-----------------
*Resources exist to refinance Dubai debt: DIC
*

Resources exist to refinance Dubai's estimated $70 billion debt, Dubai International Capital's (DIC) chief executive said on Sunday, brushing off speculation the emirate may need to seek help.

Sameer al-Ansari said the Gulf financial hub's debt to gross domestic product ratio was at better levels than in many other countries.

"In a year's time it will look better," he said at a business forum, referring to the debt refinancing. "I know the resources are there."

The investment agency is owned by His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai. Ansari's comments came in the wake of a Moody's Investors Services report last month that Dubai may need support to finance the borrowing.

The Dubai government does not publish official figures on the debt but Fitch Ratings said earlier this month that government-owned entities own about $70 billion in foreign-currency bonds and debt. Moody's has said Dubai owed at least $47 billion in debt, more than its gross domestic product.

Last week, a member of the emirate's executive council said Dubai was fully covered to service its debt for the next seven quarters because its asset base far outstrips its debts.

The executive council is the highest decision-making body in Dubai.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/11/Pages/ResourcesexisttorefinanceDubaidebtDICCEO.aspx


----------



## 234sale

New video for my ssc homies


----------



## Philippa C

BankerMan said:


> (2) A lot of people have said that Abu Dhabi will step in and help Dubai Inc., which no doubt it will. However, I have not heard a single opinion anywhere about what Abu Dhabi will ask for in return. .


My husband has been spending a lot of time in Abu Dhabi for the last two weeks. Word is that Abu Dhabi will let Dubai bleed then come in and buy up assets cheaply. I think there is a perception that Dubai got too big for its boots.


----------



## mackie1964

BankerMan is back.............Now I know that we are in deep s**t :lol:



Philippa C said:


> My husband has been spending a lot of time in Abu Dhabi for the last two weeks. Word is that Abu Dhabi will let Dubai bleed then come in and buy up assets cheaply. I think there is a perception that Dubai got too big for its boots.


That is what I am hearing too :cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

Nice trip 234 Sale ... :cheers2:


:dance2:


----------



## mackie1964

*Credit Crunch.........What Credit Crunch?*

Obviously, nobody has told the whole of the UK shoppers hno:

I was out most of the day with the Family in Manchester, Trafford Centre….etc. buying Xmas Presents. You would not believe the amount of people, buying not browsing. Popular stuff is flying of the shelves, 45 minutes wait to pay, a bit longer a couple of times to park or find a restaurant to eat………..If this carries on until Xmas, we could be spending our way out of this recession……..:lol: :banana:


----------



## Wannaberich

Thanks for the video of the roads and sand 234 :?
P.S You drive way too fast.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ They are already spending the money to be saved next month on the big interest rate cuts :lol:


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ They are already spending the money to be saved next month on the big interest rate cuts :lol:


Seriously Steve, never seen anything like it before.......and we are excessive shoppers ourselves :cheers:

Its Sunday too :nuts:


----------



## skdubai

its shopping season, so many people are bound to go and shop. What would be more interesting is have any of them cut back and bought something cheaper owing to fear of the crisis?


----------



## mackie1964

skdubai said:


> its shopping season, so many people are bound to go and shop. What would be more interesting is have any of them cut back and bought something cheaper owing to fear of the crisis?


I think (strongly believe) that they are spending more. I think the holidays / tourism industry will suffer. :cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Philippa C said:


> My husband has been spending a lot of time in Abu Dhabi for the last two weeks. Word is that Abu Dhabi will let Dubai bleed then come in and buy up assets cheaply. I think there is a perception that Dubai got too big for its boots.


So what would that mean for Dubai if Abu Dhabi buys Dubai's main assets up? I also heard that Abu Dhabi owned Etihad may take over Emirates airline.


----------



## Wannaberich

Can't help thinking in a years time when the worlds economies will hopefully be on the road to recovery,Dubais property prices will have another surge and will well surpass what they were at their peak.Partly due to the supply problem which will get worse
as launches have come to a stop.
Also think there will be a great many launches with developers bringing out attractive payment plans.
Also,the old way of launching,taking peoples money,then building months,years later will be a thing of the past.
Whats your predictions?


----------



## HappyLarry

Wannaberich said:


> Can't help thinking in a years time when the worlds economies will hopefully be on the road to recovery,Dubais property prices will have another surge and will well surpass what they were at their peak.Partly due to the supply problem which will get worse
> as launches have come to a stop.
> Also think there will be a great many launches with developers bringing out attractive payment plans.
> Also,the old way of launching,taking peoples money,then building months,years later will be a thing of the past.
> Whats your predictions?


I agree with your assessment. There is a lot a fear and pessimism right now but a couple of positive articles in a month or 3 and the herd mentality will be back in vogue.
:cheers:


----------



## malec

Latest rumour: Nakheel get taken over by Aldar next month :nuts:


----------



## FWIW

^^I heard it was Dubai Holdings....in the library with a hammer!


----------



## 234sale

Plus dpworld to.....


----------



## Wannaberich

Anyone spare some milk?


----------



## docc

^^ :rofl:

So, this is what the thread has come down to. Someone please clean it up...


----------



## skdubai

IISinbadII said:


> Nakheel's Chairman Sultan bin Sulayem said:
> 
> ".*..demand in the emirate continues to outpace supply*" and
> 
> "Some think that waiting contributes to the decrease in prices through *talk of their being a surplus in the market but reality is totally different ... Even if demand stabilises at its current levels and does not increase, supply does not cover except a small part of that*."
> 
> (arabianbusiness.com)
> 
> Also:
> 
> *Nakheel poised to scale back some projects*
> 
> Dubai's state-owned developer Nakheel said on Monday that it would scale back some of its projects because of the global economic slowdown.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/538559-nakheel-poised-to-scale-back-some-projects



ok, and you were expecting him to say what???


----------



## docc

Actually, that is true. I know a certain influential media personality (can't take name for obvious reasons), who's extremely well connected. He was told by the powers that be that the projected shortage based on current growth is more than 150,000 units (total till 2015). Annual population growth is 7%; so lets say that this number is inflated and the actual number is just 4-5%. This means that roughly 50,000 people are moving to Dubai each year (based on current population of 1.4 Million) thus creating a requirement of atleast 15,000-20,000 units annually! Again, my numbers are conservative so demand actually might be fairly higher.

I've mentioned the exact same thing before; except i calculated at 7% that time (actual figure).

Slowing down of off-plan units coupled with a steady increase in population is going to create chaos and rents are only going to get higher due to the increased demand.


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> Slowing down of off-plan units coupled with a steady increase in population is going to create chaos and rents are only going to get higher due to the increased demand.



And if banks are making borrowing harder,people will have little choice but to rent, pushing rents even higher.Although if those who need to borrow to pay these rents can't,then what will happen.


----------



## dubaigreen

*Which tower and apartments?*



docc said:


> Emaar rent to own:
> 
> 1 bed from 140k
> 2 bed from 180k
> 3 bed from 250k
> 
> Seems decent in my opinion.


Hi, sounds interesting. What do you get for this? What towers, what area, etc..?

Thanks for a reaction
DB


----------



## Northstar

*Office Space*

This is directed to whom ever has any insight on this matter.

What do you see happening with office space ( off plan) in JLT ??

Thanks


----------



## docc

^^ This is the email that i was sent:

Dear All,
Below is a brief explanation of our recently introduced ‘Rent to Own’ scheme. You are more than welcome to visit any of Emaar’s Sales Centres to get more information on availability, rental rates, etc.
If you are looking for prime residential space to rent, then this surely will be your best option. Please call me on 050 6258132 to know more on this.
The following ready projects are available under the said scheme: Old Town, The Residences and South Ridge. Tenants will be given the option to purchase the unit at a set price in the first year of the lease contract.
1beds @ 140k and above
2beds @ 180k and above
3beds @ 250k and above
For purchase in the first year 100% of rent paid will be adjusted against the unit price.
For Purchases in years 2 and 3, 50% of rent will be adjusted against the price.
If the customer chooses not to purchase the unit and instead continue leasing, Emaar can make the property available to third party sale subject to first right of refusal to tenant.
In case the tenant finds a New Buyer for the unit 50% of the rent paid to date will be refunded to him.
Process:
Customer approaches Emaar Sales Centre / Burj Dubai Sales Centre > goes through the current inventory > understands the ‘rent-to-own scheme’ > selects the best possible unit matching his or her budget and preference > visits the apartment together with the Sales Executive > fills and signs up the lease agreement for 1 year.
Requisites:
Following documents to be given at the time of signing the Lease:
1. Passport, Visa and Trade Licence in case of Company lease
2. Current Dated Cheque for Security Deposit 5%
3. Current Dated Cheque for the first half of rent payment (2 cheque payments)
4. Post Dated Cheque for second half of the rent payment
5. Current dated cheque for first 6 months and a post dated cheque for last 6 months towards chilled water charges only, calculated on net / sellable area (in the range of 6 – 12 Dhs per sqft / pa basis).
6. Agree on move-in-date at least 2 weeks from the time of signing the lease.
Tenant has three options TO CHOOSE up to 2 months before expiry of the Lease:
Tenant must inform Emaar in writing of their decision.
1. Termination (non-renewal) of Lease
► Inform Emaar of the non-renewal of Lease.
2. Renew the Lease
► Inform Emaar of the intent to renew. New lease agreement is then signed, as usual a current and a post dated cheque to be paid by the tenant.
3. Purchase the property
► Tenant must pay Emaar 1% of the Gross Price (Apartment price before Rent adjustment) at the time of notification (2months before expiry of the lease)
► Tenant must complete the sales within 45 days.
► To complete the sale, the Tenant must provide required document; pay 5% of the net price (after rent adjustment) down payment.
Thank you,
Rajiv Ghanekar
Assistant Manager, Sales.
Emaar Properties PJSC.
Mob: + 971 50 6258132


----------



## dubaigreen

Thanks docc, I am going to have a look


----------



## docc

Northstar said:


> This is directed to whom ever has any insight on this matter.
> 
> What do you see happening with office space ( off plan) in JLT ??
> 
> Thanks


In near term, prices will remain stable on average except for the odd panic sales. By around this time next year, prices will actually go up in JLT (almost as much as 15-20% depending on location) as the slow down of off-plan office space construction will put a serious strain on supply and demand equation. Please don't talk about Business Bay as it's a completely different story and will take many many years to complete; while JLT will be one of the first master-planned communities to be 100% complete in a matter of 3-4 years at most.

JLT and Marina are by far the best investment options in terms of rental yields and long term capital gain.


----------



## mrobbie

Arno Salzl said:


> hot4dubai said:
> 
> 
> 
> exactly, that's included in the service charges.
> 
> 
> 
> ...the element of the service charges called the "sinking fund" is nothing to do with the Palm actually sinking. :nuts: Its simply a fund to be used for replacing communal items down the line. Eg, each building in the Shoreline appts has a sinking fund, which covers things like replacing the lifts in future years when required.
Click to expand...


----------



## Northstar

docc said:


> In near term, prices will remain stable on average except for the odd panic sales. By around this time next year, prices will actually go up in JLT (almost as much as 15-20% depending on location) as the slow down of off-plan office space construction will put a serious strain on supply and demand equation. Please don't talk about Business Bay as it's a completely different story and will take many many years to complete; while JLT will be one of the first master-planned communities to be 100% complete in a matter of 3-4 years at most.
> 
> JLT and Marina are by far the best investment options in terms of rental yields and long term capital gain.


Thanks Docc!! Hope your right


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What is the best rental yield you can find now in Dubai? 

I imagine there must be some great potential for savers who are affected by the interest rate cuts and only get a few % interest from their bank to pump their money into buying very high yielding bargains in Dubai. 

Since rents are still very high and supply will become less, 15%+ yields must be possible by buying completed or nearly completed bargain units at 1200psf and renting out for 220k per year etc.

Could such high yields and lack of supply be the start of a new boom.


Also a boom for brave financial advisers who can explain to old Dorris from Cornwall and other savers moaning about the low interest rates how to get 15% interest rather than 1% or 2% from her life savings.


----------



## Wannaberich

If the global economic downturn means the amount of businesses opening in Dubai is greatly reduced,this would also have a big effect on rents etc.Less businesses,less people.
Therefore the undersupply which is due to get worse due to the stoppage of new launches,will have less effect.
On the other hand,as Dubais economy is in a much healthier position than most,this may mean more businesses actually opening.

Firms hold off on hiring amid global crisis
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/538589-firm-hold-off-on-hiring-amid-global-crisis


----------



## skdubai

^^ also a thing to notice will be how business in UAE react? 

A slowdown in construction will affect a lot of other small to medium companies here as well, who could have a knee jerk reaction and start getting rid of people. so lets hope things are not as bad!!


----------



## BenjiDXB

Isnt the undersupply kind of artificial, as so many apartments remain empty, due to the fact that the owners do not want to be stuck for tenants for 3 years ? I m just wondering how important the undersupply still was, if there was a law forcing owners to rent out the properties (which will of course never come...)


----------



## crazyeight

Demand seems to exist only on paper


----------



## Richard Head

crazyeight said:


> Demand seems to exist only on paper


Errrrrrrrrrrrr......................................what?


----------



## FWIW

^^They maybe empty but are they for sale or rent?


----------



## aazain

^^^^may be not all but many as seen from freehold 1,2,3 section of gulf news


----------



## rexdmx

^^ probably the same properties circulated through the same agents over and over again


----------



## AppleMac

aazain said:


> I have been looking hundreds of units in Dubai Maria and JBR empty for last 1year


What buildings? - JBR have been drip feeding properties onto the market ever since it was released so as not to flood the market.



> but many as seen from freehold 1,2,3 section of gulf news


But hardly any of those are completed.

I checked the GN this morning and saw very few completed properties for sale or rent in the Marina given the size of the market - what you do see are multiple agents advertising the same unit.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Concern about the credit crunch has created a movement in the Dubai property market away from sales towards rentals, according to industry experts.

*More and more properties are being marketed for rent rather than being sold on.* 'Speaking to brokers, we have noticed a shift in the market. Now that more and more properties are being completed, property owners are looking to rent their properties to manage mortgage repayments,' said property event director Pooja Rajani.

The trend has also been noticed by Riad Kamal, the chief executive of construction giant Arabtec Holding. He said that more developers would become more reliant on income from property rents as the housing sales market continued to slow.

*'There is a huge demand for rented accommodation and that's what is escalating the rent prices.* What we are going to see is a healthy correction as more accommodation becomes available, helping to reduce the rents which today are just very unreasonable,' he added.

http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/rentals-rise-dubai-property-market-200811142065.html


----------



## Wannaberich

Alot of properties are advertised twice on GN.For example, I always look at one particular area of Duabi.If there are for example 8 pages for that area,alot of the properties are shown twice.Its the same ad not the same property with two agents.This gives the impression there are more units for sale than in reality.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Citigroup has big exposure to Dubai due to the optimistic growth prospects for the Gulf Arab region, Citigroup chairman Win Bischoff said on Monday.

*We have a big exposure to Dubai ... lots of billions. We will continue that because it is an interesting area to be in. The business model of Dubai is not bad. The DNA is similar to other big trading hubs," he said.*

Bischoff, speaking a conference in the seaside emirate, said he expected that the financial crisis could possibly end by 2010.

"I suspect it will be over when big financial institutions have two consecutive positive earnings," he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSLH26598320081117


----------



## AltinD

I received the renewal notice from the landlord and my rent remains unchanged for the 3rd year in the row. I live in a non-freehold 2Br 'Marina Diamond' type of apartment in Bur Dubai.


----------



## noir-dresses

Now all you have to do is ask your boss for a raise to cover increased rent

:banana::banana::banana:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ If he is only allowed to put it up by 5% then he may just prefer to keep you happy as a good paying tenant. Next year you may not be so lucky, he may change his mind and evict you and raise the rent much higher but he sounds like a generous landlord.


----------



## AltinD

^^ As I said, it is in a non-freehold area and the owner is the developer. I have been staying there since I put foot in Dubai and was one of the first and probably their longest tenant.

I had 15 or 25% increase 2 years earlier, and +7% the year earlier ... still I am paying just 6.5% more then the first year's rent and certainly much below market price. But there is (should be) reward for paying in time and sticking in when it was the norm to change flats every year, sometimes even every 6 months, and there used to be "To Let" signs hanging from every building in town. 

Anyway, sorry for going off-topic :colgate:


----------



## AltinD

noir-dresses said:


> Now all you have to do is ask your boss for a raise to cover increased rent
> 
> :banana::banana::banana:


Company pays anyway.


----------



## Wannaberich

DM not to extend one family per villa rule to appartments.
Seems pretty stupid to me.How can it be a fire hazard in a villa but not a smaller appartment?
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/538725-dm-rules-out-extending-one-villa-one-family-rule-to-flats


----------



## Dubai_Steve

That seems ok. So 2 professionals can share the rent for a 2 bed apartment if they prefer rather than 2 x 1 bed apartments.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> That seems ok. So 2 professionals can share the rent for a 2 bed apartment if they prefer rather than 2 x 1 bed apartments.


Do u class two professionals as two families?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I guess so, 2 people from different families who are not married or in 'relations'.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> I guess so, 2 people from different families who are not married or in 'relations'.


:wtf:


----------



## AltinD

Sub-leasing of apartments has never been allowed, so if you're not related to the renter you (and the renter) are in breach of Municipality rules and regulations not to mention of tenancy contract. 

Enforced or not, it has been like this for ages.


----------



## bizzybonita

*Dubai real estate prices expected to rise*

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10260614.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

AltinD said:


> Sub-leasing of apartments has never been allowed, so if you're not related to the renter you (and the renter) are in breach of Municipality rules and regulations not to mention of tenancy contract.
> 
> Enforced or not, it has been like this for ages.


I am not talking about sub-leasing, rather the rental contract would state the name of the 2 families or 2 individuals from separate famailies that will share the rent directly payable to the agent.


----------



## noir-dresses

very nice

http://www.business24-7.ae/articles/2008/11/pages/11182008_49b03258f75b41d69a929bf7a2ee1b13.aspx


----------



## kano

^^^ WELL ITS GOOD TO HEAR SOME POSITIVE NEWS.....


----------



## fulcrum2

I think it is going to be a big mess, and the worst that nobody is going to be able to help. God protect this country.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Elaborate please !


----------



## smussuw

My friend's friend is building his house for 340 AED psf .......


----------



## bizzybonita

Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiire burn baby burn baby burn the roof the roof the roof .


----------



## Wannaberich

bizzybonita said:


> Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiire burn baby burn baby burn the roof the roof the roof .


Errrrr,what the hell are u putting in your drink ?!


----------



## first timer

smussuw said:


> My friend's friend is building his house for 340 AED psf .......


Very good business as in a few more months he probally will only just break even with the price of the land.

Well at least he is not in negative equity like 99% of people on this forum.


----------



## fulcrum2

This is a sad end for Dubai story


----------



## Wannaberich

fulcrum2 said:


> This is a sad end for Dubai story


Have u ever been accused of over reacting ?


----------



## Richard Head

fulcrum2 said:


> This is a sad end for Dubai story


First Timer got his / her / itself a new User ID. Oh good.:badnews:


----------



## HappyLarry

Dubai_Steve said:


> I am not talking about sub-leasing, rather the rental contract would state the name of the 2 families or 2 individuals from separate famailies that will share the rent directly payable to the agent.


Any clarification on boyfriend/girlfriend, boyfriend/boyfriend, girlfriend/girlfriend contracts will be appreciated. Or, does one have to declare sexual orientation for the moral majority?


----------



## noir-dresses

bizzybonita said:


> Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiire burn baby burn baby burn the roof the roof the roof .


I think he's singing The Roof is on Fire, we don't need no water, let the ----------- burn


----------



## Northstar

fulcrum2 said:


> This is a sad end for Dubai story


Thanks for letting us know the world is ending. Hey Have great day buddy!! try not to jump off any incomplete buildings.
Just one word for you PROZAK!!!


----------



## Mistermark

Dubai_Steve said:


> Concern about the credit crunch has created a movement in the Dubai property market away from sales towards rentals, according to industry experts.
> 
> *More and more properties are being marketed for rent rather than being sold on.* 'Speaking to brokers, we have noticed a shift in the market. Now that more and more properties are being completed, property owners are looking to rent their properties to manage mortgage repayments,' said property event director Pooja Rajani.
> 
> The trend has also been noticed by Riad Kamal, the chief executive of construction giant Arabtec Holding. He said that more developers would become more reliant on income from property rents as the housing sales market continued to slow.
> 
> *'There is a huge demand for rented accommodation and that's what is escalating the rent prices.* What we are going to see is a healthy correction as more accommodation becomes available, helping to reduce the rents which today are just very unreasonable,' he added.
> 
> http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/rentals-rise-dubai-property-market-200811142065.html


This worries me. I'm not too fussed about what completed units are worth (on paper) at any given time; I just want the maximum possible rental income from my two completed units and three on the way. If rents fall significantly, I'd have to question whether to stay in - if selling is an option, that is...

I guess it depends how long the current conditions apply.


----------



## Taimur

We are told there wont be a payment revision and there is a clause in the contract which could delay the project for at least a year and if we still dont get the appartments we would get our money back (original amount ) without any interest which i think is really unfair . 

its a good effort pushin them for the revise payment ...we all should proceed with it


----------



## Bimcnorth

Mistermark said:


> This worries me. I'm not too fussed about what completed units are worth (on paper) at any given time; I just want the maximum possible rental income from my two completed units and three on the way. If rents fall significantly, I'd have to question whether to stay in - if selling is an option, that is...
> 
> I guess it depends how long the current conditions apply.



There´s an agenda from the absolute top to put rents down, in AD they got plans/builds huge low/middle income areas (see Sheikh Mohammad City) and Dubai is just building whatever.
This will of course benefit the country at large but as an investor you might consider making sure that the properties you buy are going to attract a lot of interest as quality always will be at a premium.


----------



## fulcrum2

Northstar said:


> Thanks for letting us know the world is ending. Hey Have great day buddy!! try not to jump off any incomplete buildings.
> Just one word for you PROZAK!!!


PROZAK??


----------



## nri-hotels

Falling prices usually bring on insurance fraud cases, like fire or destruction of property. 

Like a mirage, the "Dubai dream" is quickly reappearing as a violent sandstorm.

Who today will want to buy/live in flamboyant Liberaci-like properties?

Its back to Camels and Tents, people !


----------



## malec

What the hell is this, the world ending or something?

Even I, who's always pessimistic can't believe some of the ridiculous stuff posted here and on other forums. 
Stuff such as Emaar going bankrupt, etc :lol:
If they're going to go bankrupt soon then surely almost every other developer would have gone under by now.


----------



## nri-hotels

malec said:


> What the hell is this, the world ending or something?
> 
> Even I, who's always pessimistic can't believe some of the ridiculous stuff posted here and on other forums.
> Stuff such as Emaar going bankrupt, etc :lol:
> If they're going to go bankrupt soon then surely almost every other developer would have gone under by now.


you sound like somebody commenting on the American stock market in June/July 2008


----------



## hot4dubai

nri-hotels said:


> Falling prices usually bring on insurance fraud cases, like fire or destruction of property.
> 
> Like a mirage, the "Dubai dream" is quickly reappearing as a violent sandstorm.
> 
> Who today will want to buy/live in flamboyant Liberaci-like properties?
> 
> Its back to Camels and Tents, people !


^^We personally want to/love to live in Dubai..ok prices are rocking in some areas at the moment .....err like the rest of the world?? I could go back to London and buy the same property and at the same price which I sold in 1997...still not tempted to go back.

- are people leaving in droves....No
- are people selling at silly prices ...No
- are shopping malls empty ...No
- Is Dubai turned into an empty desert town...No

Can you back up your theory with facts...I would be very interested to know. Thanks


----------



## nri-hotels

hot4dubai said:


> ^^We personally want to/love to live in Dubai..ok prices are rocking in some areas at the moment .....err like the rest of the world?? I could go back to London and buy the same property and at the same price which I sold in 1997...still not tempted to go back.
> 
> - are people leaving in droves....No
> - are people selling at silly prices ...No
> - are shopping malls empty ...No
> - Is Dubai turned into an empty desert town...No
> 
> Can you back up your theory with facts...I would be very interested to know. Thanks


The Middle East got nothing but OIL. Expat laborers (non-construction)are expensive to import, so no future new industries setup in Middle East is viable. If renewable energy demand picks up, Oil will never go above $50/bbl. I doubt most non-arab people find comfortable living near countries harboring radical islam. 

Middle East had oil money since 60s, so why wait till 2002 for development ?

Dubai is just pure speculation, like Hollands Tulip craze, it will wither away and never come back. There are better places in the world to live in and cheaper.


----------



## 234sale

docc said:


> Emaar's new payment strategy:



The List of Downtown Properties that Emaar has for rent


----------



## bennyt

*Dubai Sports City (Al Zarooni) are all Crooks*

This is a warning to all people who are considering dealing with Dubai Sports City. Let me tell you this "Buyer Beware" or rather just stay away. You are all being warned now. Dubai Sports City are all Crooks from the President Khalid Al Zarooni to there sales manager Vikki and all the sales agents like Maryam and Shahrzad.

They have lied to me and to all their clients from the beginning about construction delays, contract and much more

If you bought into the European Towers in Canal West. They will not tell you that the whole 5th floor was sold to their sister company MKO Real Estate and than Dubai Sports City will sell it to the clients on behalf of MKO Real Estates. The client is never told of this and so when they buy they will pay a huge premium.

I advice everyone reading this to not deal with these crooks. I fell victim to this scam and I’m sure more people have too. I tried reaching Khalid Al Zarooni on numerous occasions but he refuse to speak to me.

I dealt with them for six months via phone, e-mail and visited their offices. They were very happy to speak to me when they wanted my money but when there scam was exposed they are now telling me to deal with MKO real estate cause I supposedly bought from them even though I have never even to spoken with anyone from MKO.

When I went to see them at there offices Vikki their sales manager apologized and accepted that they were at fault and offered to give me back my 10%. She asked me to e-mail her requesting a refund, when I did a few hours later she e-mailed me back saying that I should contact MKO and that DSC had nothing to do with it.

These bastards are all crooks, they mislead you, lie to you and then take all your money and when you figure out you've been had it’s too late. Good luck trying to reach them...they will completely ignore you.

I would warn all people to just not invest with them, they are thieves...just do your own research on the Al Zarooni family and the complaints against them and you can see for yourself.

Anyway, I just wanted to let people know...it’s your money I can’t tell you what to do. 

I regret the day that I contacted these people; they will look you straight in the eyes and lie to you.

Is there anybody else with a similar experience?


----------



## hot4dubai

nri-hotels said:


> The Middle East got nothing but OIL. Expat laborers (non-construction)are expensive to import, so no future new industries setup in Middle East is viable. If renewable energy demand picks up, Oil will never go above $50/bbl. I doubt most non-arab people find comfortable living near countries harboring radical islam.
> 
> Middle East had oil money since 60s, so why wait till 2002 for development ?
> 
> Dubai is just pure speculation, like Hollands Tulip craze, it will wither away and never come back. There are better places in the world to live in and cheaper.


^^Very weak arguments my friend....

Dubai has already recognised that oil is running out that is why they are diversifying and not relying on oil and "why they waited for development untill 2002". They are pushing towards tourism, creating new business hubs, investing in infrastructure....the list goes on. If they were not diversing then maybe you would of had a valid point there.

Considering most of the population in Dubai are expats simply answers your question as to " how many non-arabs want to live here...." It is much safer place to live than other places in the world...past tragic events just confirms this.

Already had this discussion about better places to live on this forum....got shortlisted to California...lovely place but look at the recent fires there and America has got massive financial problems at the moment....Dubai is still coming up trumps...the standard of living it offers is just amazing..Fact:banana:


----------



## docc

nri-hotels said:


> *The Middle East got nothing but OIL*. Expat laborers (non-construction)are expensive to import, so no future new industries setup in Middle East is viable. If renewable energy demand picks up, Oil will never go above $50/bbl. *I doubt most non-arab people find comfortable living near countries harboring radical islam.*
> 
> Middle East had oil money since 60s, so why wait till 2002 for development ?
> 
> Dubai is just pure speculation, like Hollands Tulip craze, it will wither away and never come back. There are better places in the world to live in and cheaper.


My friend, you just lost all credibility right there. Too bad you didn't take a little more time to read about the UAE and it's economy, rest aside the entire ME region.


----------



## first timer

nri-hotels said:


> you sound like somebody commenting on the American stock market in June/July 2008


The person you refering to has double standards and double rules

If this person does not agree with you then god help you


----------



## first timer

nri-hotels said:


> The Middle East got nothing but OIL. Expat laborers (non-construction)are expensive to import, so no future new industries setup in Middle East is viable. If renewable energy demand picks up, Oil will never go above $50/bbl. I doubt most non-arab people find comfortable living near countries harboring radical islam.
> 
> Middle East had oil money since 60s, so why wait till 2002 for development ?
> 
> Dubai is just pure speculation, like Hollands Tulip craze, it will wither away and never come back. There are better places in the world to live in and cheaper.


This is the best comment that has ever been posted on this forum,
Well done writer
:banana:


----------



## first timer

hot4dubai said:


> ^^Very weak arguments my friend....
> 
> Dubai has already recognised that oil is running out that is why they are diversifying and not relying on oil and "why they waited for development untill 2002". They are pushing towards tourism, creating new business hubs, investing in infrastructure....the list goes on. If they were not diversing then maybe you would of had a valid point there.
> 
> Considering most of the population in Dubai are expats simply answers your question as to " how many non-arabs want to live here...." It is much safer place to live than other places in the world...past tragic events just confirms this.
> 
> Already had this discussion about better places to live on this forum....got shortlisted to California...lovely place but look at the recent fires there and America has got massive financial problems at the moment....Dubai is still coming up trumps...the standard of living it offers is just amazing..Fact:banana:


A great place to live if you dont mind being treated as a second class resident,
have 2.1 children and go to mosque every friday

God help you if your not hetrosexual and challenge the system and have an opinion


----------



## hot4dubai

first timer said:


> A great place to live if you dont mind being treated as a second class resident,
> have 2.1 children and go to mosque every friday
> 
> God help you if your not hetrosexual and challenge the system and have an opinion


^^Do you know what...Docc is absoloutely right..no point even commenting on your posts..full stop:no:


----------



## skdubai

What can you say about comments like that???? good idea to just ignore them and move on.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai is doomed.We're all gonna die.The end of the world is nigh !


----------



## Maha

first timer said:


> A great place to live if you dont mind being treated as a second class resident,
> have 2.1 children and go to mosque every friday
> 
> God help you if your not hetrosexual and challenge the system and have an opinion


Oh boy! Has this guy actually been to Dubai!!


----------



## nri-hotels

A little history - repeating itself except this time its not the Shah, but rather the Sheikhs !

U.S. policies may have contributed to Iran revolution, study says
A report based on declassified documents suggests that the Nixon and Ford administrations, angry with the shah for his support for raising oil prices, worked to curb his ambitions.
By Borzou Daragahi, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer 
October 17, 2008 

BEIRUT -- A new report based on previously classified documents suggests that *the Nixon and Ford administrations created conditions that helped destabilize Iran in the late 1970s and contributed to the country's Islamic Revolution*.

A trove of transcripts, memos and other correspondence show sharp differences over rising oil prices developing between the Republican administrations and Mohammed Reza Shah Pahlavi in the mid-1970s, says a report to be published today in the fall issue of Middle East Journal, an academic journal published by the Washington-based Middle East Institute, a think tank.

The report, after two years of research by scholar Andrew Scott Cooper, zeros in on the role of White House policymakers -- including Donald H. Rumsfeld, then a top aide to President Ford -- hoping to roll back oil prices and curb the shah's ambitions, despite warnings by then-Secretary of State Henry Kissinger that such a move might precipitate the rise of a "radical regime" in Iran. 

"The shah is a tough, mean guy. But he is our real friend," Kissinger warned Ford, who was considering options to press the monarch into lowering oil prices, in an August 1974 conversation cited by the report. "We can't tackle him without breaking him."

Analysts and historians often contend that President Carter, a Democrat, fumbled Iran, allowing the country to eventually become one of the chief U.S. opponents in the region. But the report suggests *that his Republican predecessors not only contributed to the shah's fall but also were inching toward a realignment with Saudi Arabia as the key U.S. ally in the Persian Gulf.*

*The examination of pre- revolutionary Iran has special relevance today. Cooper said Iran's economic situation just before the revolution resembled its current state, this time with **big-spending President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad banking on high oil prices to sustain his power.* 

"*Ahmadinejad's fiscal recklessness is eerily reminiscent of the shah's, with Iran's inflation rate running at approximately 30% and Iran's current deficit approximately $12 billion -- not to mention widespread underemployment and unemployment,"* Cooper said in an e-mail. 

The report, based mostly on documents stored at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library in Ann Arbor, Mich., opens a window on an unruly period more than 30 years ago that precipitated Iran's 1979 Islamic Revolution, which established a template for religiously inspired Muslim movements throughout the Middle East. 

*As high oil prices in the early 1970s began strangling the U.S. economy*, Washington began to sour on Iran, the documents suggest. After an oil embargo over American support of Israel ended in March 1974, U.S. officials considered the shah the principal culprit in keeping oil prices from falling and wanted him to put on the brakes. At one point, Rumsfeld, who later served as the current President Bush's Defense secretary, warned Iran's chief arms procurement official that Tehran was losing friends in Washington. 

"Don't try to get around me," he reportedly told Gen. Hassan Toufanian, in an encounter described by the Washington Post three decades ago and cited in the report. "Remember, Kissinger and I have to approve all [arms] exports."

Chief among those advocating pressure on Iran was William Simon, who served as Treasury secretary and energy czar under the Nixon and Ford administrations. He blamed the shah for high oil prices and wanted the U.S. to use weapons sales to Tehran as leverage. 

"He is the ringleader on oil prices, together with Venezuela," Simon told President Nixon in July 1974, referring to the Iranian ruler. "Is it possible to put pressure on the shah?"

Over the years, Kissinger advocated a friendlier line on Iran and the shah, who had been brought back to power by a U.S.-engineered coup in 1953. The report suggests that Kissinger had special insights into the country's instability. At the time, university campuses in Iran were in turmoil, and guerrillas were attacking U.S. facilities and assassinating key officials. Even in 1974, a CIA analysis sounded the alarm, saying the shah's ambitious buildup of the country was causing economic polarization and cultural clashes that were roiling Iran.

By late 1976 the shah was in deep financial trouble, facing a huge cash crunch. He wanted the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries oil cartel, or OPEC, to raise oil prices by 25%, a move the U.S. opposed.
*
"There is unanimity among my advisors that the world economy health is not good," Ford told Iranian* Ambassador Ardeshir Zahedi in December 1976, according to the archives.* "Any increase in the price of oil would have a serious impact on the world financial structure."*

But U.S. officials, especially Simon, had been working with Saudi officials behind the shah's back to seek help on oil prices in exchange for political and military support for the Arab kingdom. The Saudis stunned OPEC by announcing at a December summit in Doha, Qatar, that they would boost production to 11.6 million barrels a day from 8.6 million barrels, driving down prices. 

"We should get credit for what happened at OPEC," Kissinger told Ford. "I have said all along the Saudis were the key. . . . Our great diplomacy is what did it."

But it would prove to be a Pyrrhic victory in terms of one American ally. Iran was cash-strapped, having spent much of its reserves on American weapons and the shah's Great Civilization programs, which spurred inflation by flooding the country with money.

The shah was broke. Declining oil revenue amid continued inflation forced him to abandon ambitious plans to modernize his country. 

"The collapse of the Doha summit, and the Saudi decision to undercut the price of crude and boost its output to try to flood the market, rushed the Iranian economy to the precipice," Cooper writes in his report.

*The shah's government, shaken by the loss of oil revenue, imposed a harsh austerity budget that threw thousands out of work, collapsed investor confidence and panicked middle-class Iranians. Economic chaos and unemployment quickly spread.*

Within a year of the Doha summit, the first mass demonstrations that grew into revolution broke out on the streets of the Iranian capital.


----------



## Maha

nri-hotels said:


> *The Middle East got nothing but OIL.* Expat laborers (non-construction)are expensive to import, so *no future new industries setup in Middle East is viable*. If renewable energy demand picks up, Oil will never go above $50/bbl. *I doubt most non-arab people find comfortable living near countries harboring radical islam*.
> 
> *Middle East had oil money since 60s, so why wait till 2002 for development ?*
> 
> Dubai is just pure speculation, like Hollands Tulip craze, it will wither away and never come back. There are better places in the world to live in and cheaper.



We all already know that there are quite a lot of ignorant and rude (to say the least) people out there; but to actually come to the UAE forum and state such crap, that's plain stupid.

The bold statements just show how uninformed and spiteful the guy really is.


----------



## rexdmx

nri-hotels said:


> A little history - repeating itself except this time its not the Shah, but rather the Sheikhs !
> 
> .


...and this analogy is similar to dubai because....?


----------



## noir-dresses

If your on drugs, atleast take quality drugs, cause the one's your on are doing serious brain damage buddy. 

:nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:


----------



## 234sale

nri-hotels said:


> The Middle East got nothing but OIL. Expat laborers (non-construction)are expensive to import, so no future new industries setup in Middle East is viable. If renewable energy demand picks up, Oil will never go above $50/bbl. I doubt most non-arab people find comfortable living near countries harboring radical islam.
> 
> Middle East had oil money since 60s, so why wait till 2002 for development ?
> 
> Dubai is just pure speculation, like Hollands Tulip craze, it will wither away and never come back. There are better places in the world to live in and cheaper.


I am quite comfortable living in Dubai,, actually I would even argue the majority of residents feel comfortable living next to some conservative Islamic states(Otherwise we would not be in the UAE). I also object to your use of radical Islam in your example, it shows you have no understanding of this region.

Every country is suffering as a Global Credit Crisis becomes a Financial Crisis,, from Iceland to Uganda, Asia to Americas..

What is your true motivation behind your objectionable position, I am really quite interested.


----------



## AltinD

HappyLarry said:


> Any clarification on boyfriend/girlfriend, boyfriend/boyfriend, girlfriend/girlfriend contracts will be appreciated. Or, does one have to declare sexual orientation for the moral majority?


By Law is forbitten for 2 non-family-related people of different gender to share the same house.


----------



## Pleth

*Scandal*

It appears that more and more investors are being taken for a ride by hoax developers in Dubai.
With Rera being absolutely useless, and nobody being able to interpret the new law no. 13, investors are starting to show their frustrations and air their opinions elsewhere such as on the internet http://groups.google.com/group/dubai-property-investors/web/information-about-action?hl=en and in the press http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20081115065321/lok065300081115?weeklynewslettertext . Gulf News printed a negative story about Aspire's declining reputation this week. Things are changing in Dubai. 
Dubai may end up as the investors nightmare worse than Bulgaria and Turkey.

Fraud or disorganized developers are demanding 80% payment of the apartments from the investors, even though the constructions have not even started - let alone fencing the building site! That means the investor has to depart with 80% of his money and then wait 4 - 5 years to move in if the building will go ahead (even this is uncertain)! 
With the new law in place, if the investor pulls out the developer has the right to keep 30% of the money.

Some developers such as Al Zahra (Sunset Gardens) and Minc (Prodigy) suddenly demand more money from the investors, it is a complete circus. hno:

And you ask Rera what is right and wrong and they will tell you "ask a lawyer". They haven't got a clue what so ever.

Whenever the European (British, Russian) newspapers start to write about this, the whole property marked can collapse. The newspapers are just waiting for a shady story to tell.


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ There is a lot more to the Dubai property market than some shady developers and big holes in the desert. Those who have been in this forum know that there has been a consensus for years now that one should keep away from small developers and off-plan projects far away in the desert. The viability of such projects have always been in question.

Having said that, I totally agree that the government should be protect the rights of the investors and not let these hoax developers runaway blaming everything on the global financial problems. Similarly, law no. 13 should not apply on those developers who have not kept the promises they had made. RERA should take a notice of extraordinary delays, changing payment schedules, project cancellations, increasing the price and other such practices.


----------



## HarryKane

docc said:


> That's a rather unfair comparison as you're quoting a distress sale price.


Not really when there is a trend in distress sales at the moment. Are institutional investers dumping their vacant properties all at once? No, they're smarter than that. But, they are vacant for a reason.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dubai has set up a committee to recommend ways to tackle the impact of the global financial crisis on the emirate's economy, including real estate and banks, a government finance official said on Wednesday.
> 
> "The purpose of the committee is to assess the impact of the global financial crisis on Dubai and what can be done in sectors including real estate and banking," said Nasser al-Shaikh, director-general of the Dubai Department of Finance.
> 
> "It will make recommendations to the ruler on the way forward for critical areas that have to be tackled to withstand future challenges," Shaikh told Reuters.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSLJ43089220081119


Some innovative ideas would be:

-Introducing something like "Dubai, my second home" program. 
-Priority cards for investors.
-Fast-track services and privileges.
-Discounts on Emirates airlines and Metro tickets.
-Free parking anywhere in Dubai.
-Free medical services in government hospitals.
-Driving licenses for property owners.
-Long-term property based residency visas.
-more..... 

:banana:


----------



## Arno Salzl

Furjan Terrace Townhouses at 2,5 million (means without premium) today in Gulfnews. Is it serious? At such price (or a little bit less  ), I might be interested.


----------



## mrobbie

sam69 said:


> Sorry...penny just dropped Thanks Giving!


No, its the official opening party for Atlantis hotel :cheers:


----------



## Arno Salzl

_*2009 will be crunch time for Middle East property markets*
WEDNESDAY, 19 NOVEMBER 2008 
The property bubble in the Middle East is bursting and is unlikely to show signs of recovery for at least two years, according to a British real estate expert.
The real estate sector has reached its peak and is now falling in line with prices and growth rates in the rest of the world, according to Professor Stephen Lee, a senior lecturer in real estate finance at London's City University's Cass Business School.
In the Middle East for the first Gulf Real Estate Fundamentals Conference, said there are also questions about supply and demand and how this is going to affect the property markets.
'It has got to slow down at the very least, if not stop. A lot of the people buying property here are expatriates from the US and the UK, countries where the credit crunch has impacted the most,' he said.
'The credit crunch has already hit Dubai - I have heard if you work for a property developer you will not even get a loan to buy a car,' he added.
The conference chairman, who has 30 years' experience in property development, investments, property finance, sustainability and environmental issues, said the problem now facing Bahrain and the Gulf was that supply was now beginning to outstrip demand.
'Palm Island in Dubai and Bahrain Bay, for example, will be completed, but is there demand for them? Next year is going to be a crunch time for this region. You have individuals who have wealth, but they will not spend their money if there is no confidence,' he said.
The conference in Bahrain also heard that nearly 60% of construction projects in the Gulf have been postponed or shelved as a result of the global credit crunch. Sakana Holistic Housing Solutions chief executive officer R Lakshmanan said global confidence is at an all time low and the region's real estate sector was bearing the brunt of the slump.
He also warned that because most of the industry's liquidity had come from oil wealth, falling crude prices would only increase the impact on companies and investors._

This report is full of errors:
1. not a lot of property buyers are from the US. As we all now, buyers are UAE and other GCC citizens, Indians, Iranians, Russians, Pakistanis and British.
2. Palm Jumeirah is already inhabited and it will be the same for Palm Jebel Ali, assuming that the price level will become realistic.
3. The supply will only outstrip demand when all commuters from Sharjah / Ajman to DIC / Jebel Ali will have relocated to affordable places closer to their workplaces (Jumairah Village, at 400/ sqft for example).
4. Crude prices will not stay for long at 40 or 50$.


----------



## Arno Salzl

_*Amlak suspends new mortgage loans*

by John Irish on Thursday, 20 November 2008 
Dubai Islamic mortgage lender Amlak has suspended new loans, its chief executive said on Wednesday, as the global credit crunch hits the property sector in the Gulf's trading hub.

"We are reviewing our existing credit policy to ensure optimum servicing of existing and prospective accounts... hence our temporary measures of not sourcing new applications will bring us up to the level we have outlined in our management strategy," Arif Alharmi said in a statement.

Amlak and fellow mortgage lender Tamweel are aiming to complete a $1.6 billion merger by the end of the first quarter of 2009 despite the crisis which has almost frozen global and regional interbank lending and stalled medium to long-term financing.

Speaking at a bankers' meeting earlier on Wednesday, Amlak chairman Nasser Al-Shaikh said the company may need to access retail deposits in some form.

Al-Shaikh said home finance across the world had been "challenged" and that the existing business plans were no longer sustainable and had to be changed.

"They don't have to become banks but something similar to the savings and loans model in other countries," Al-Shaikh said, adding that Amlak was working closely with the UAE's central bank and finance ministry to bring in the changes. (Reuters) _

Definitely a wise decision, in order to protect the company and the current customers. Now, investors, mortgage lenders and developers will need a lot of flexibility and confidence to restart the engine.


----------



## Mavekris

Guys Please give some good news.


----------



## Arno Salzl

IISinbadII said:


> Some innovative ideas would be:
> 
> -Introducing something like "Dubai, my second home" program.
> -Priority cards for investors.
> -Fast-track services and privileges.
> -Discounts on Emirates airlines and Metro tickets.
> -Free parking anywhere in Dubai.
> -Free medical services in government hospitals.
> -Driving licenses for property owners.
> -Long-term property based residency visas.
> -more.....
> 
> :banana:


Great proposals. Unfortunately, either to expensive for the Government or unpopular among the national population


----------



## Peter Pan in Dubai

*Attitude will change*

This careless atittude & arrogance from developers & sales consultants that we all suffered from in the last years will vanish. The employees of DSC like all other master developers & real estate agencies are shitting in their pants now & you may spot them in the streets next month looking for a job.

I hope this is a lesson to all of us that business without integrity, transparency & tolerance does not last. 

As investors we will loose a bit of money (which is fine) in the short term for the sake of a healthier business environment. But these real estate agents will loose their career & their arrogance.

The future looks brighter ...


----------



## nri-hotels

*Dubai Boom and Gloom*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8S9MhwsHVw

Marc Faber (Gloom Boom and Doom) comments on Dubai property market Nov 11 2008. 

Sorry for the video quality.


----------



## sam69

mrobbie said:


> No, its the official opening party for Atlantis hotel :cheers:


THANKS!


----------



## 234sale

*Abu Dhabi and Boundless Wealth*



nri-hotels said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8S9MhwsHVw
> 
> Marc Faber (Gloom Boom and Doom) comments on Dubai property market Nov 11 2008.
> 
> Sorry for the video quality.


Abu Dhabi has 178 TRILLION DOLLARS of wealth and buying a nice cheap bit of Dubai is already on the cards.


----------



## skdubai

178 trillion??? where did that number come from?? last i know it wasn't even 1 trillion?????


----------



## 234sale

Mabe I just made it up, like half the arguements on here ...

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/03/19/8402357/index.htm



> The emirate's 420,000 citizens, who sit on one-tenth of the planet's oil and have almost $1 trillion invested abroad


Thats just overseas cash.

Its not easy to find offical figures, as they are not regulary published.

As to the Video Posted, Many purchases of Dubai Companies may happen behind the scenes. I for one are not worried.

Yes, we can't borrow money from UAE lenders, But even my Brother who is in the UK is now required to have 30% equity in the house he wants to buy. Its not just a Dubai Problem...

BTW








http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

But I think I missed out the . It should be 1.78Trillon Dollars---- oophs


----------



## bennyt

*Clarification*

Sorry if I was not clear in my last message basically DSC sold me a resale property but lead me to believe that I was buying directly from DSC so I paid a higher price instead of 1.3 million I paid 1.6 million because it was resale. I paid 10% on 1.6 mil when it should have been for 1.3 mil so they are selling on behalf of one of their subsidiaries but leading the client to believe they are buying direct from DSC so you end up paying more.

By the way, this was in the Spanish towers not European as I stated earlier. The whole 5th floor they sold to MKO real estates and then turned around and sold it to clients on MKOs' behalf.

Watch out for this scam they are ripping people off and getting away with it so far....so I'm warning people so they don’t fall victim to this trap.

If you have already delt with them make sure you sent all your installments to DSC not any other company no matter what they tell you, better yet stay away from DSC...if they cheated me then they'll cheat anyone. 

Just don't do business with this unethical company and withthe Al Zarooni's in general they are all crooks.


----------



## Arno Salzl

skdubai said:


> 178 trillion??? where did that number come from?? last i know it wasn't even 1 trillion?????


No data published. It is generally acknowleged that ADIA's investments alone are between 800 and 1000 billion USD. Most very defensive positions.
ADNIC, Mubadala and many others have a more aggressive and visible investment policy.


----------



## skdubai

ah, that sounds like a more reasonable figure....


----------



## Thorneyvilla1

IISinbadII said:


> Some innovative ideas would be:
> 
> -Introducing something like "Dubai, my second home" program.
> -Priority cards for investors.
> -Fast-track services and privileges.
> -Discounts on Emirates airlines and Metro tickets.
> -Free parking anywhere in Dubai.
> -Free medical services in government hospitals.
> -Driving licenses for property owners.
> -Long-term property based residency visas.
> -more.....
> 
> :banana:


Are you for real?hno:

Free parking! That would be chaos.

Priorities for investors! Aren't over exuberant investors responsible for the mess Dubai finds itself in.

Driving licenses for property owners! Have you ever driven around Dubai. We should be taking some licences away, not giving them out.

Property based residency visas - Emaar told me it was due to unwelcomes from Yemen & Iran that the 'visa with property' scheme was stopped.
:bash:


----------



## docc

Wait till Feb, there's going to be a lot more liquidity made available through some VERY BIG names.


----------



## Cyrus55

Dubai_Steve said:


> The current global financial crisis is unlikely to impact on the long-term growth of Dubai, it has been claimed.
> 
> According to executive chairman of Dubai Group Saud Ba'Alawy, the short-term issues brought about by a decrease in the flow of foreign capital into the city are unlikely to affect Dubai's property market in the medium to long-term.
> 
> "We are not overly worried about the current global financial situation," he explained, noting that the strength of Dubai has been built on the "leadership and capability" of those who have developed the city, rather than the "availability of capital alone".


Where and how they are going to find buyers? Perhaps to import them from elsewhere? or plant money trees in invester's house?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Where there is demand, liquidity and finance there will be buyers. Dubai will have all of these things again soon. As docc says there's going to be a lot more liquidity made available through some VERY BIG names.


----------



## nri-hotels

234sale said:


> Mabe I just made it up, like half the arguements on here ...
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/03/19/8402357/index.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Thats just overseas cash.
> 
> Its not easy to find offical figures, as they are not regulary published.
> 
> As to the Video Posted, Many purchases of Dubai Companies may happen behind the scenes. I for one are not worried.
> 
> Yes, we can't borrow money from UAE lenders, But even my Brother who is in the UK is now required to have 30% equity in the house he wants to buy. Its not just a Dubai Problem...
> 
> BTW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil
> 
> But I think I missed out the . It should be 1.78Trillon Dollars---- oophs



ok


----------



## docc

Cyrus55 said:


> Where and how they are going to find buyers? Perhaps to import them from elsewhere? or plant money trees in invester's house?


Why import buyers? There are enough here already. They just can't seem to get a mortgage. Let's the money tap's run again and you'd be surprised how many people would come forward to purchase.

This time around, there are going to be a lot of rules to curb flipping, and i mean a LOT! What you're going to see is a turn towards end user market with slow and progressive construction of carefully studied and well reputed developers rather than what you had witnessed over the last few years.

Believe me, they have learnt from their mistakes and these are just teething problems of perhaps one of the most glorious cities in the world!


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> Wait till Feb, there's going to be a lot more liquidity made available through some VERY BIG names.


I hope these VERY BIG names reduce their VERY HIGH rates.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/538953-lenders-ramp-up-interest-rates-on-home-loans


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> What you're going to see is a turn towards end user market with slow and progressive construction of carefully studied and well reputed developers rather than what you had witnessed over the last few years.


That means Jum Village will never be completed then.Its full of suspect developers.


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> I hope these VERY BIG names reduce their VERY HIGH rates.
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/538953-lenders-ramp-up-interest-rates-on-home-loans


You're going to see some very competitive and attractive rates. And i'm talking half what you're paying today.


----------



## AltinD

Wannaberich said:


> That means Jum Village will never be completed then.Its full of suspect developers.


I have said for ages that Jumeriah Village should be the last place someone should look into it ... once in a while I can get the privilege of being proved right too.


----------



## 234sale

I posted this about 3 months ago,, Mortgage Rates are going to drop by 3%.. What they don’t want is a flood of cheap loans pushing up property values as confirmed to me by senior HSBC official.


----------



## Arno Salzl

docc said:


> This time around, there are going to be a lot of rules to curb flipping, and i mean a LOT! What you're going to see is a turn towards end user market with slow and progressive construction of carefully studied and well reputed developers rather than what you had witnessed over the last few years.


Agree completly with you. To make Dubai a better city to live in.


----------



## Wannaberich

AltinD said:


> I have said for ages that Jumeriah Village should be the last place someone should look into it ... once in a while I can get the privilege of being proved right too.


I almost brought into there a couple of years ago.Glad I didnt.
I still think Jum Village has the potential to be the best place in Dubai to live.
A mixture of residential,commercial properties,villas,shops etc.A 'small town'
atmosphere where you can walk the pavements and pop into a shop here and a cafe there.Just like in Europe.


----------



## aazain

Wannaberich said:


> I almost brought into there a couple of years ago.Glad I didnt.
> I still think Jum Village has the potential to be the best place in Dubai to live.
> A mixture of residential,commercial properties,villas,shops etc.A 'small town'
> atmosphere where you can walk the pavements and pop into a shop here and a cafe there.Just like in Europe.


Nakheel also had similar plans with International City and many of us know how they come up with


----------



## Arno Salzl

Wannaberich said:


> That means Jum Village will never be completed then.Its full of suspect developers.


JV was wrong from the start: master plan, pricing, choice of sub developpers. Result: it has attracted a lot of crooks. But don't worry: big names will take over, finish and sell it for an affordable price.


----------



## Hanna

*Apartments Exempt*

Apartments Exempt from ‘One Villa, One Family’ PolicyMartin Croucher and Riyasbabu 

20 November 2008 



DUBAI - Families and singles living in shared apartments need not worry, for the moment, about Dubai Municipality’s ‘One Villa, One Family’ policy. The assurance by a senior municipality official in a section of the media, that the ‘One Villa, One Family’ policy would not be extended to shared apartments

has provided some relief to hundreds of low-income people who were evicted from shared villas. However, Omar Abdul Rahman, head of the Buildings Inspection Section in Dubai Municipality, stressed that partitioning of flats was illegal. “We are saying that not more than one family may live in a villa. This doesn’t apply to apartments, as long as residents go through the proper processes. For example partitioning of rooms is illegal and violates building regulations.”

According to Vincent Easton, head of sales at Sherwoods, a real estate company, the announcement may lead to an increase in demand for rental properties, particularly in areas such as Deira or Bur Dubai.

“I think it will push up the price of renting a three-bedroom apartment,” he said. “It could even lead many to think of buying properties. Because those looking for shared occupancy will move from villas to apartments, it will push up prices of apartments.”

Marjory Stewart, a marketing consultant who works in Jebel Ali, lives with single European friends in a shared, but not overcrowded villa in Jumeirah. She said that the uncertainty over the municipality crackdown on shared villas had led her to look for an apartment. 

“Since the announcement of the’‘One Villa, One Family,’ policy’ we haven’t been feeling at ease. We are constantly worried that any time the municipality officials would come to our villa and disconnect electricity.

“I have some friends and colleagues whose villa water and electricity supplies were disconnected, and the landlord isn’t giving their deposit back. They had no choice but to stay in the villa without Dewa utilities, in order to exhaust the deposit.

“I am thinking of moving to an apartment with friends before we are put in the same situation” said Stewart.


----------



## docc

The Govt cannot afford to extend this rule to apartments simply because there aren't enough apartments to support the population; rest aside affordable accommodation! However, once there's enough affordable space available, it's only logical that this rule will get extended to apartments as well.

Besides, the idea of driving out people from villa's was to fill up currently available space in IC and that which is coming on to the market in DG in the coming year. I'm quite sure that it will get filled up fast, especially since there's no legislation about sharing in apartments right now.


----------



## first timer

docc said:


> You're going to see some very competitive and attractive rates. And i'm talking half what you're paying today.


So at last you agree the bubble has burst and going to burst more

:banana:


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> The Govt cannot afford to extend this rule to apartments simply because there aren't enough apartments to support the population; rest aside affordable accommodation! However, once there's enough affordable space available, it's only logical that this rule will get extended to apartments as well.
> 
> Besides, the idea of driving out people from villa's was to fill up currently available space in IC and that which is coming on to the market in DG in the coming year. I'm quite sure that it will get filled up fast, especially since there's no legislation about sharing in apartments right now.


Doesnt sound fair to the person living in his/her 1 bed,having to contend with noise from 6/7/8 people in the 2/3 bed next door.
Also,its not fair that same 1 person will be paying the same maintenance charge per sq ft.


----------



## docc

^^ I agree. Who ever said life was fair? hno:


----------



## docc

first timer said:


> So at last you agree the bubble has burst and going to burst more
> 
> :banana:


I think i have to be a little more clear for the educationally challenged.

"Interest. Rates. Will. Be. Cut. In. Half. 
Not. The. Prices. Of. All. Property."

There, was that clear enough for you...?

What's your native language? I'll have google translate it for you if you prefer it.


----------



## Wannaberich

heatstor said:


> My question to the above poster and people like him is this:
> Where else in the World would you invest right now that has more potential of profits than Dubai.
> .


Probably nowhere.What some people need to realise is that the main reason for investing in Dubai is,its barely 20% complete.
Invest in London,New York for example,in ten years those places will have changed very little.Dubai on the other hand will be totally different and awesome.
The more they build,and theres tons left yet,the more attractive and desirable it becomes to potential residents and business owners.
Building the palms,Dubailand,metro,the list goes on,these places will drag up the prices of property when they are finished.


----------



## googly

heatstor said:


> My question to the above poster and people like him is this:
> Where else in the World would you invest right now that has more potential of profits than Dubai.


Good question. Sometimes investing in hard cash is better than all other investments. Today, I would rather keep dirhams/euros/pounds/dollars than invest it. Timing is everything. 

Having said that, I agree with you that Dubai was a better investment than most other places in the world. I havent lost faith in Sheikh Mo and Dubai and I am sure it will bounce back soon. Besides, even if prices stay deflated, what better place to own property than in Dubai. Who wouldnt want to live in Dubai? :cheers:


----------



## Richard Head

mackie1964 said:


> As much as, I did not like reading this article. It is somewhat balanced and true reflection of what is really happening. Most of us deep down think in similar ways but we choose to put a positive spin on it.
> 
> When you know that most of the main players are now pumping too much money into Doha and even AD, you just start to wonder.
> 
> We all know about the financial situation of Dubai. Leverage, lack of credit….etc.
> 
> I still think what is happening is healthy for the Dubai Property Market in the long run. :cheers:



How can you call an article "balanced" when in fact it is almost entirely negative, poorly researched and full of blatant lies and exaggerations? If you really believe that then you either have spent very little time in Dubai, or you have a terminal case of chronic pessimism.


----------



## Wannaberich

From John Arlidge:
' prostitution is tolerated and, while homosexuality is not, ‘Brokeback Mountain' is available to rent in Blockbuster '

Fcuk it.You know things in Dubai have hit rock bottom when Brokeback Mountain is available !
This is one distinguished journo !:weird:


----------



## heatstor

googly said:


> Good question. Sometimes investing in hard cash is better than all other investments. Today, I would rather keep dirhams/euros/pounds/dollars than invest it. Timing is everything.
> 
> Having said that, I agree with you that Dubai was a better investment than most other places in the world. I havent lost faith in Sheikh Mo and Dubai and I am sure it will bounce back soon. Besides, even if prices stay deflated, what better place to own property than in Dubai. Who wouldnt want to live in Dubai? :cheers:




You are right Googly. Cash is king right now for at least the next six months to an year even though you are still losing out to inflation and maybe to currency fluctuations. 
But I would be very interested to know which real estate market would forumers invest in today if they did not want to be in Cash.


----------



## IISinbadII

_The sense of unease grew recently when one local official questioned the number of foreigners moving to Dubai, saying:"I'm afraid we are building towers but losing the Emirates."_

^^ Hey, was that smussuw talking to the telegraph? :bash:


----------



## smussuw

^^ lol, no, this was a statement said by the head of Dubai Police, obviously for internal consumption !


----------



## nisha

heatstor said:


> My question to the above poster and people like him is this:
> Where else in the World would you invest right now that has more potential of profits than Dubai.


Have stayed in cash and plan to remain so for the next 12-18 months until I feel it is time to re-enter the markets.


----------



## mackie1964

Richard Head said:


> How can you call an article "balanced" when in fact it is almost entirely negative, poorly researched and full of blatant lies and exaggerations? If you really believe that then you either have spent very little time in Dubai, or you have a terminal case of chronic pessimism.


I have been coming here since I was a kid and spent many of my young years in the UAE:cheers: I have many Emarati friends, one of them along with his family are staying at our house at present

Eighty per cent of Dubai's population is made up of expatriates, including Europeans, Australians, South Africans and Americans, but the majority comprises labourers from Asia.

*True *(simplestic but true) 

Brits living and working in Dubai number 100,000. Foreigners - rich or poor - are all classified as"guest workers" and, as such, enjoy few freedoms and little protection.

*True * (Some Brits might like to think otherwise). 

There is no parliament where they can make their voice heard, no political parties, no elections, no free trade unions, no minimum wage, no charter of human rights, no right to trial by jury, little consumer protection and no free press.

*True *

The problem for Sheikh Mohammed is, the bribe is no longer working. Dubai is getting very, very expensive and wages are failing to keep pace with inflation.

Due to the influx of low skilled work force, including europeans, its true. The exception here are the highly skilled ones but again, it is becoming unattracive. (I know because I was offered to manage KPIZ and turned it down)

Its currency, the dirham, is pegged to the dollar. As the greenback has weakened, so has the dirham, making imports more expensive and forcing up prices. 

Partly true

Officially, inflation is around elevent per cent but locals say the real figure is double that. When it comes to rent and property prices, they say, the rate exceeds 30 per cent - if, that is, you can find anywhere to live at all. 

True, refer to posts by Sameerl and others

The price rises have sparked riots by construction workers, which have delayed major residential projects. Chuck in chronic traffic congestion, worsening pollution, limited cultural attractions, complaints about the poor build quality of the homes that have been built, and rising crime - notably the shocking rape of a young French boy by three two men, which, critics claims, local police tried to cover up - and many argue that Dubai has gone from being an adult playground to a congested, polluted, soul-less, risky place. 

A bit over the top but the cover-up at the time of what happened with the French lad was quite worrying

Dubai has some decidedly iffy neighbours and has suffered terror attacks before - notably a petrol bomb attack on a western hotel. The money and men behind the 9/11 attacks in New York passed through Dubai. 

True, I think

For those who have decided to make Dubai their home, they can at least enjoy a a remarkably tolerant attitude towards westerners from their Muslim leaders.

Christians can build their own churches and worship freely, alcohol is available, women can dress how they wish and do any job, foreigners can own freehold property, prostitution is tolerated and, while homosexuality is not, ‘Brokeback Mountain' is available to rent in Blockbuster. 

True

But at the back of their minds, skilled foreigners have always had a nagging doubt that Dubai tolerates them as a necessary, temporary evil - it needs western expertise to fuel its growth - but, in fact, values them little more than the construction workers who build skyscrapers and earn as little as $10 a day. 

The sense of unease grew recently when one local official questioned the number of foreigners moving to Dubai, saying:"I'm afraid we are building towers but losing the Emirates." 

The local resident on here can write books about this, my friend tells about a radio show mostly about this


Can you tell me what is not True in your view? I am a great supporter of Dubai by the way but not blind :cheers:


----------



## smussuw

^^ agree, except that I wanted something emphasizing on the Emiratis more and not mostly about expatriates !


----------



## googly

heatstor said:


> But I would be very interested to know which real estate market would forumers invest in today if they did not want to be in Cash.


If I had to invest in property today, I would invest in my home country. What Dubai cant offer me is citizenship, and that is, at the end of the day, the biggest safety net for anyone. I know that I cant be kicked out of my home country, no matter what. 

One idea would be to buy a bigger house cause they are cheaper now. When the gloom is over, I can sell the bigger house and move back to a normal one, while making a killing. If the market stalls longer than expected, I can enjoy life in a bigger house.


----------



## Wannaberich

mackie1964 said:


> I have been coming here since I was a kid and spent many of my young years in the UAE:cheers: I have many Emarati friends, one of them along with his family are staying at our house at present
> 
> Eighty per cent of Dubai's population is made up of expatriates, including Europeans, Australians, South Africans and Americans, but the majority comprises labourers from Asia.
> 
> *True *(simplestic but true)
> 
> Brits living and working in Dubai number 100,000. Foreigners - rich or poor - are all classified as"guest workers" and, as such, enjoy few freedoms and little protection.
> 
> *True * (Some Brits might like to think otherwise).
> 
> There is no parliament where they can make their voice heard, no political parties, no elections, no free trade unions, no minimum wage, no charter of human rights, no right to trial by jury, little consumer protection and no free press.
> 
> *True *
> 
> The problem for Sheikh Mohammed is, the bribe is no longer working. Dubai is getting very, very expensive and wages are failing to keep pace with inflation.
> 
> Due to the influx of low skilled work force, including europeans, its true. The exception here are the highly skilled ones but again, it is becoming unattracive. (I know because I was offered to manage KPIZ and turned it down)
> 
> Its currency, the dirham, is pegged to the dollar. As the greenback has weakened, so has the dirham, making imports more expensive and forcing up prices.
> 
> Partly true
> 
> Officially, inflation is around elevent per cent but locals say the real figure is double that. When it comes to rent and property prices, they say, the rate exceeds 30 per cent - if, that is, you can find anywhere to live at all.
> 
> True, refer to posts by Sameerl and others
> 
> The price rises have sparked riots by construction workers, which have delayed major residential projects. Chuck in chronic traffic congestion, worsening pollution, limited cultural attractions, complaints about the poor build quality of the homes that have been built, and rising crime - notably the shocking rape of a young French boy by three two men, which, critics claims, local police tried to cover up - and many argue that Dubai has gone from being an adult playground to a congested, polluted, soul-less, risky place.
> 
> A bit over the top but the cover-up at the time of what happened with the French lad was quite worrying
> 
> Dubai has some decidedly iffy neighbours and has suffered terror attacks before - notably a petrol bomb attack on a western hotel. The money and men behind the 9/11 attacks in New York passed through Dubai.
> 
> True, I think
> 
> For those who have decided to make Dubai their home, they can at least enjoy a a remarkably tolerant attitude towards westerners from their Muslim leaders.
> 
> Christians can build their own churches and worship freely, alcohol is available, women can dress how they wish and do any job, foreigners can own freehold property, prostitution is tolerated and, while homosexuality is not, ‘Brokeback Mountain' is available to rent in Blockbuster.
> 
> True
> 
> But at the back of their minds, skilled foreigners have always had a nagging doubt that Dubai tolerates them as a necessary, temporary evil - it needs western expertise to fuel its growth - but, in fact, values them little more than the construction workers who build skyscrapers and earn as little as $10 a day.
> 
> The sense of unease grew recently when one local official questioned the number of foreigners moving to Dubai, saying:"I'm afraid we are building towers but losing the Emirates."
> 
> The local resident on here can write books about this, my friend tells about a radio show mostly about this
> 
> 
> Can you tell me what is not True in your view? I am a great supporter of Dubai by the way but not blind :cheers:



This isnt unbalanced?Show me one good thing this report has to say?
Regards crime.Dubai is probably the safest place I have ever been to.
To pick out this rape on its own is very poor indeed.

Regards the lack of a voice for ex-pats.The influx of these ex-pats is very new.Dubai needs time to catch up and give them a voice.They come of free choice.If they dont like the system they can go home.

Dubai can be quite expensive but also tax free.Come to think of it,how much is petrol now?

Riots have delayed projects for merely a day here and there.So what.

Skilled foreign workers feel they are 'tolerated'?first time Ive heard that one.

The men behind 9/11 passed through Dubai?And?was that when they went for a piss-up to Yulumba?

I could go on but I couldnt be bothered.
We all know Dubai has it bad points.However,London,New York,Paris,Rome,all these places are perfect?


----------



## nisha

googly said:


> If I had to invest in property today, I would invest in my home country. What Dubai cant offer me is citizenship, and that is, at the end of the day, the biggest safety net for anyone. I know that I cant be kicked out of my home country, no matter what.
> 
> One idea would be to buy a bigger house cause they are cheaper now. When the gloom is over, I can sell the bigger house and move back to a normal one, while making a killing. If the market stalls longer than expected, I can enjoy life in a bigger house.


Very well said - the reason why I can't see Dubai as home....I need a sense of permanency......


----------



## Mistermark

I hope that Sheikh Mo will use the need to reappraise what Dubai offers the world now there's a downturn to consider what's attractive, and what's less so, about the emirate, and tackle the weaknesses.

What's good about the place is the vision, the masterprojects, the cosmopolitan community and the lack of tax.

What's bad is the Dollar peg and the inflation and subsequent real estate downturn it has contributed to, the lack of infrastructure, the bureaucracy/inefficiency and the lack of democracy and rights.

Personally I think democracy is a dreadful way of making decisions, but an excellent means of ensuring those running the state apparatus are accountable, and hence avoiding the worst inefficiencies and abuses. For this reason I believe democracy would also help resolve the other problems listed above.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> From John Arlidge:
> ' prostitution is tolerated and, while homosexuality is not, ‘Brokeback Mountain' is available to rent in Blockbuster '
> 
> Fcuk it.You know things in Dubai have hit rock bottom when Brokeback Mountain is available !
> This is one distinguished journo !:weird:


His article was certainly not balanced it was heavily focussed on the negative without mentioning the positives and was designed to bash Dubai on the day it would be getting attention. Certainly not good journalism, I will be making a complaint to the telegraph.


----------



## noir-dresses

no kidding, this ************ lives in a fools paradise


----------



## Wannaberich

There is just one negative thing I'd have to say about last nights event.
It was a great Al Qaeda incentive to put Dubai on their bomb list.
All those westerners and all that opulence.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Well that's cheared me up (NOT). Have a nice weekend.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Well that's cheared me up (NOT). Have a nice weekend.


:naughty:


----------



## AITU

Dubai_Steve said:


> His article was certainly not balanced it was heavily focussed on the negative without mentioning the positives and was designed to bash Dubai on the day it would be getting attention. Certainly not good journalism, I will be making a complaint to the telegraph.


^^You mean that the British press was negative? I can't believe that.....:lol:


----------



## Wannaberich

skdubai said:


> besides consolidation of this magnitude at this time only makes me more uncomfortable......


Thats what I figured.More mergers=Less competition=Less competitive rates.
The same will happen in the UK when Lloyds merge with HBOS.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> Since Dubai has taken a front seat in the international limelight, we in the UAE have grown used to welcoming journalists from across the world. *Recently, though, there has been a slew of reporters coming hoping to uncover a “dark side”. * Thankfully, the UAE has largely ignored this negative campaign and has continued with its development, looking towards the future.


Unfortunatley I think we can expect for this to continue and get alot worse.
The jealousy the success of Dubai is creating seems to be growing.Especially
at a time where the worlds economies are suffering.
The fact a reporter from a Los Angeles newpaper of all places wrote 'its hard not be revolted by Dubai' is a joke.Los Angeles after all is possibly the most superficial,shallow,putrid city on earth.
The fact Duabi is an Arab and Muslim country doesnt help with those journalists in the west.The fact that many wrongly see Dubai as an oil rich country and blame them for high petrol prices even though they produce 
very little doesnt help either.
However I do think the ordinary person on the street doesnt care.No-ones ever said a bad word to me about Dubai.Its just those ignorant,lazy journos,incapable of doing any proper reserach who have decided its the Devils backyard.


----------



## Emir of Ketir

*The best time to buy*

I think the next few months will see Dubai shifting from a rental place to a buyers place. We will see more people withdrawing their speculative money and hence making space for middle-income groups who were troubled to afford 120k Dhs p.a. rents. I would wait a few weeks more and than invest heavily in the purchase of property.

*A time to buy for smart buyers!*


----------



## Tractor

Emir, wait a few more months - maybe until the Spring - 'cos the crash has only just started in Dubai. Its going to be a cash-buyer's heaven shortly - no doubt.

Before the Atlantis party I heard nothing good about the hotel - sewage system backing up, terrible staff, dreadful food. Seriously, the quality of construction, project management and hotel management should be getting better in Dubai - not worse!

Using the 'jealous' argument against anyone that criticizes Dubai is pathetic and immature. Dubai will have to grow up and start to accept it is nowhere near perfect ... the current crisis should wake a lot of people up that were complacent.

Dubai has for years been a place you either love or hate. It is nothing new, just getting more attention (which is what it wants!).


----------



## hot4dubai

Using the 'jealous' argument against anyone that criticizes Dubai is pathetic and immature. Dubai will have to grow up and start to accept it is nowhere near perfect ... the current crisis should wake a lot of people up that were complacent.

Dubai has for years been a place you either love or hate. It is nothing new, just getting more attention (which is what it wants!).[/QUOTE]

^^Everyone is entitled to an opinion....good or bad. These should be backed with some sort of fact/truth dont you think? Some of the posts on here though shout out envy and bitterness.... Dubai may not perfect but where in the world is? ERRR the current crisis is going on around the world and some people have been caught out....again like the rest of the world. 

As for Dubai getting more attention...whats wrong with that?kay:


----------



## nisha

mackie1964 said:


> Can you please let me know which banks, I get nothing (nearly nothing) with my saving account with Emirates Bank :cheers:


Depends on the amount too - higher the amount better the rate

Try RBS; HSBC; ADCB (desperate); NBF.........


----------



## nisha

Atlantis deals............for around GBP 800 (you get 4 nights PLUS return Emirates flight from the UK) .......offer valid until May 09......

AND more here:

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Hotel_and_Tourism/10261866.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ cheapest low season price per night is still £332 per night. Where are these imaginary $44 rooms. :nuts:


----------



## nisha

You need to look in the right places ;-)

http://www.netflights.com/holidays/...&holidayid=1857&nonights=4&priceband=&depart=


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ That special offer still works out at over £300 per night for the room as the price is per person with min of 2 people.


----------



## smussuw

You guys are so complicated 

cheapest rooms in low season is AED 900 for two. If you were 3 guys looking for something cheap u could end up paying AED 1100 for the room only as those rooms can host up to 3 adults.


----------



## mackie1964

Tried to book 27th Des08 till 4th Jan 09 but the cheapest I can find is AED 5,500 a night and that is only for 2 Adults 

The one who find me a really good deal for 2Adults and 2 Children gets a few drinks 

We could have had 5 nights with Kuoni for £459 each just before the official opening, the feed back at the time was not too good but it has got much better I am told.


----------



## dubaigreen

Something else: how is rental going? It seems that the panic has not reached the rental market? Is this logic? There are layoffs, there are people that start to rent out apartments because they can not sell, etc.. We should see lower rents, but it looks like this is somehow controlled. Any advice on how to reach deals, besides talking to betterhomes and the likes?


----------



## Morten_Denmark

dubaigreen said:


> Something else: how is rental going? It seems that the panic has not reached the rental market? Is this logic? There are layoffs, there are people that start to rent out apartments because they can not sell, etc.. We should see lower rents, but it looks like this is somehow controlled. Any advice on how to reach deals, besides talking to betterhomes and the likes?


If everybody wants to rent and not buy there are some logic in this - but honestly I dont see it as healthy that rents now for a 2 bed in the marina average 220-240 k Aed.


----------



## Wannaberich

dubaigreen said:


> Something else: how is rental going? It seems that the panic has not reached the rental market? Is this logic? There are layoffs, there are people that start to rent out apartments because they can not sell, etc.. We should see lower rents, but it looks like this is somehow controlled. Any advice on how to reach deals, besides talking to betterhomes and the likes?


If people cant buy because at the moment banks aren't lending,then they only have the option to rent.Also,some of those who do have money are probably waiting for prices to fall some more so will rent in the meantime.

The fact that many projects will be put on hold due to the current financial crisis,this will cause an even greater shortgage of available properties.
Therefore,given these facts, rents will go up.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> Naturally, a newspaper like the *Los Angeles Times *would want to cover the event and reflect on the discussions. That is what I initially thought when I started reading its report; but I was mistaken. Its *reporter, Rosa Brooks, “spent a few days in Dubai” and came up with hurtful phrases like “for us normal human beings, it’s hard not to be revolted by Dubai”, *
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081123/OPINION/57739765/-1/SPORT


Just to remind you guys again,SHE'S FROM L.A ! 
Errrrrr,hello,how many ho's and pimps and crackheads ya got walking your streets compared to Dubai,sister ?!!!


----------



## THEPOINT

nisha said:


> Atlantis deals............for around GBP 800 (you get 4 nights PLUS return Emirates flight from the UK) .......offer valid until May 09......
> 
> AND more here:
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Hotel_and_Tourism/10261866.html


I am worried Gulf News is talking crap now LOL - cheapest (and habitable) in Dubai next week I can see is about £88 per night after searching expedia -Atlantis story is B*l**cks unless you can give me exact detail of $44 per night fantasy pricing ??? TOO MUCH DOOM AND GLOOM BEING PUSHED -We are all down a bit but it really depneds when and where you got in to the RE market as to wheter you should be worried


----------



## THEPOINT

Wannaberich said:


> Just to remind you guys again,SHE'S FROM L.A !
> Errrrrr,hello,how many ho's and pimps and crackheads ya got walking your streets compared to Dubai,sister ?!!!


I'm revolted by LA and Las Vegas too !! -Dubai for me anyday


----------



## sam69

*First came a boom, then fireworks, but is Dubai’s property market in trouble?* THE TIMES 24TH NOV 2008

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t.../construction_and_property/article5218887.ece


----------



## Wannaberich

^^
Errrr,so lets get this right.
The whole world is in a recession,possibly on the way to a depression,and this bonehead is writing about Dubai being affected?Well of course it is.Does he expect Dubai to be immune for Gods sake ?!


----------



## Northstar

I think we need to be more accepting of all opinions on this thread. It seems like any post that has negative news about Dubai is straight away Bashed. I understand that it is hard for some to be objective as you call Dubai your home.

But I think we are all better off, if we consider all information, not just what we want to hear.

I have a relatively substantial amount invested in Dubai, I want Dubai to do well and I want it to recover immediately. But I also have to be realistic and plan the my next steps carefully.

I have faith in Dubai.


----------



## nisha

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ That special offer still works out at over £300 per night for the room as the price is per person with min of 2 people.


How? Have you deducted return Emirates fare from the UK? Price includes airfares.


----------



## makerian

dubaigreen said:


> Something else: how is rental going? It seems that the panic has not reached the rental market? Is this logic? There are layoffs, there are people that start to rent out apartments because they can not sell, etc.. We should see lower rents, but it looks like this is somehow controlled. Any advice on how to reach deals, besides talking to betterhomes and the likes?


My studio apartments in Discovery Gardens -Med cluster should be handed over anytime. I had buyers ready to purchase these in Sep at 700K net to me. Now I'm being told by brokers that I"ll have to reduce the price to at least 600K if not less. 

So I have decided to rent out and there are people ready to pay 70,000 at the very least. So in my experience, rental seems to still be strong.


----------



## Imre

Emir of Ketir said:


> I think the next few months will see Dubai shifting from a rental place to a buyers place. We will see more people withdrawing their speculative money and hence making space for middle-income groups who were troubled to afford 120k Dhs p.a. rents. I would wait a few weeks more and than invest heavily in the purchase of property.
> 
> *A time to buy for smart buyers!*


agree with you.best time to buy from the resale market if you have money

rent still high, maybe increased when I was on holiday (last 3 months), saw the property market in the last 4 days, many distress sales with zero premium because they can not pay the next payments and at the moment no buyers.


----------



## legal eagle

*yields yields yields*

There are some very bright people bouncing about Dubai and some not so bright ones too.

Because I fall into the latter, I have had to really try and find a Dumbo method that suits me well in so far as investing is concerned.

In a very very simplistic way you can find the bottom of the market- by making a projection on yield.

So if a 1 bed in Discovery Gardens is renting at say, 80,000 dirhams per annum net to you (i.e. thats what you actually pocket after costs).

Then I would say, that 1 beds in Discovery Gardens are worth a minumum of 900,000 Dirhams a piece and start buying- _you may vary slightly from this depending on what a fair % income you think money owes you in general._

Even with rents adjusting by say 30% down, tho' I'd hope they didn't!!! I would still be satisfied that the yield justified the intitial purchase price.

This 30% drop would take into account more stock coming on line and job loss potential due to general slow down in Dubai's market.

There is of course some up side potential as there may be a shortage of completed property for some time to come in Dubai.... but I'd leave that out of my very simple strategy.

and let it be a pleasant surprise.


Remember that sometimes sentiment & emotion (which by its nature is illogical) may force the price well below the 900,000 Dirhams I project as the bottom of the market for a disco Gdns 1 bed.

But you will know that this is sentiment driven and as such is temporary 

so while it will p*ss you off if you purchased at 900k, you are still in line with your obectives, and b/c you now know what those objectives are, *you are still succesfully navigating through a rough market where the majority sit on the side lines.*

Sitting down and working out your yield objectives can be as good as putting on your night vision goggles in this rather murky market.

Get on. :cheers:


----------



## nri-hotels

legal eagle said:


> There are some very bright people bouncing about Dubai and some not so bright ones too.
> 
> Because I fall into the latter, I have had to really try and find a Dumbo method that suits me well in so far as investing is concerned.
> 
> In a very very simplistic way you can find the bottom of the market- by making a projection on yield.
> 
> So if a 1 bed in Discovery Gardens is renting at say, 80,000 dirhams per annum net to you (i.e. thats what you actually pocket after costs).
> 
> Then I would say, that 1 beds in Discovery Gardens are worth a minumum of 900,000 Dirhams a piece and start buying- _you may vary slightly from this depending on what a fair % income you think money owes you in general._
> 
> Even with rents adjusting by say 30% down, tho' I'd hope they didn't!!! I would still be satisfied that the yield justified the intitial purchase price.
> 
> This 30% drop would take into account more stock coming on line and job loss potential due to general slow down in Dubai's market.
> 
> There is of course some up side potential as there may be a shortage of completed property for some time to come in Dubai.... but I'd leave that out of my very simple strategy.
> 
> and let it be a pleasant surprise.
> 
> 
> Remember that sometimes sentiment & emotion (which by its nature is illogical) may force the price well below the 900,000 Dirhams I project as the bottom of the market for a disco Gdns 1 bed.
> 
> But you will know that this is sentiment driven and as such is temporary
> 
> so while it will p*ss you off if you purchased at 900k, you are still in line with your obectives, and b/c you now know what those objectives are, *you are still succesfully navigating through a rough market where the majority sit on the side lines.*
> 
> Sitting down and working out your yield objectives can be as good as putting on your night vision goggles in this rather murky market.
> 
> Get on. :cheers:


isn't that living in denial ?


----------



## legal eagle

*Not really*



nri-hotels said:


> isn't that living in denial ?



I think it is the steadiest and probably most vivid way to amass and maintain a fortune... amass and maintain (both important).

While it is slower then taking advantage of capital values going up and down, it has a steady growth pattern that is always gathering speed.

You will get overtaken by this method, your luck at speculation (if thats the opposite method here) will determine when that happens.


----------



## nri-hotels

legal eagle said:


> I think it is the steadiest and probably most vivid way to amass and maintain a fortune... amass and maintain (both important).
> 
> While it is slower then taking advantage of capital values going up and down, it has a steady growth pattern that is always gathering speed.
> 
> You will get overtaken by this method, your luck at speculation (if thats the opposite method here) will determine when that happens.


exactly how long is your investment period here?


----------



## legal eagle

*Don't complicate it*



nri-hotels said:


> exactly how long is your investment period here?


Its a constant as in never ending.


The methods you choose to amass your fortune and then to maintain it need to sinc at some point.

If you happen to be incredibly succesful at speculative flipping thats great,

but it is unlikely your son will be, nor the method (which requires a good chunk of opportunistic window spotting & luck) will last for ever.

Applying a simplistic yield objective and teaching pthers to see/find the value via this variable in anything, can keep a fortune in tact actually.


----------



## Wannaberich

Loads of fantastic live coverage on Sky News of Dubai.Week long special 'Eye on the Emirates'.Great publicity for Dubai.However,the report said prices have hit the floor.
Not quite yet.
http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:517e4c51-1b19-44b8-bec7-797c144f9e3c


----------



## legal eagle

*DUMBO*

While its not foolproof, why not accept a change in the way you approach things.

Why not let yields from hereon in indicate your buy opportunities.

Its much less painful , and actually does not allow you to get caught up in the hype which as we have now found out hs a limited lifespan.

Factor in some market swing for current climate, and away you go.

I would have speculated and become a flipper if I was at the driving seat/ in the number one position, but not any further down the line....  I am not perfect....


----------



## Wannaberich

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/vi...IDEO_15159875_Dubai:_Is_Boom_Coming_To_An_End


----------



## sameerl

In the coming weeks, it is likely that a raft of mergers at the government level wil take place, including mergers between deyaar, emaar, nakheel, union properties, various parts of dubai holding. As debt levels consolidate, the next steps will be a cancellation of some of the projects, many of which have been openly speculated upon. During this consolidation, thousands of jobs will likely be lost as companies move to aggressvely sut costs, leading to downward pressure on rental rates. It is only after this dust settles will be see any semblance of normality return as investors will reassess their appetite for dubai real estate.


----------



## makerian

There was an interesting opinion by Dr. Habib Mulla (eminent UAE lawyer) in Gulf News today about the recent circular issued to clarify Law 13. His opinion was that the circular issued was amending and adding to the law as opposed to clarifying it. (Remember the 30% and 30-70% issued on which most of us were confused). He gives his opinion that the circular is illegal. Good piece to read if you can find it.


----------



## nri-hotels

Looks like a huge chunk of real estate would belong to govts and banks all around the world, due to bailout strategy.


----------



## smussuw

makerian said:


> There was an interesting opinion by Dr. Habib Mulla (eminent UAE lawyer) in Gulf News today about the recent circular issued to clarify Law 13. His opinion was that the circular issued was amending and adding to the law as opposed to clarifying it. (Remember the 30% and 30-70% issued on which most of us were confused). He gives his opinion that the circular is illegal. Good piece to read if you can find it.


It is also good when u know that he is the chairman of Union Properties? :nuts:


----------



## jixline

^^ he is not


----------



## smussuw

^^ You are right. But isn't he a chairman of a development company? or I might have mixed him with Anees Al Jallaf all those years :lol: :cheers:


----------



## Wannaberich

Friend just came out of Tameers office SZR.Was told they got rid of 400 staff today !


----------



## jixline

from the GN article he is managing partner of Dubai-based Habib Al Mulla & Co law firm

too much :cheers::cheers::cheers: so guess u mixed him up :rofl:


----------



## PlaneMad

Theres more to life than money people. Ive lived 18 years in the UAE, but theres no place ive been happier than in my homeland. even the people who live on the streets smile and help.

If thats the prize of true freedom and democracy, maybe dubai should try it too.


----------



## HappyLarry

Got to hand it to Al Abbar,
"Dubai's growth has been at a rate of 13pc to 14pc a year. If this comes down to 6pc or 7pc or 8pc then fine. We've been running a long time and could probably do with a breather. We will use this time to learn lessons and become a stronger city."


----------



## HappyLarry

PlaneMad said:


> Theres more to life than money people. Ive lived 18 years in the UAE, but theres no place ive been happier than in my homeland. even the people who live on the streets smile and help.
> 
> If thats the prize of true freedom and democracy, maybe dubai should try it too.


Sorry if I missed the clue but where exactly is your homeland and, perhaps, the rest of ours Utopia?
:cheers:


----------



## Naz UK

HappyLarry said:


> Got to hand it to Al Abbar,
> "Dubai's growth has been at a rate of 13pc to 14pc a year. If this comes down to 6pc or 7pc or 8pc then fine. We've been running a long time and could probably do with a breather. We will use this time to learn lessons and become a stronger city."


Probably got that one from Gordon.


----------



## mrobbie

sam69 said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-debt-levels-to-dispel-fears-over-growth.html
> 
> DAILY TELEGRAPH 24.11.08


this is great to read - finally some reassurance from the govt. and it came across quite genuine and down to earth to.

...just need the banks to start lending again now


----------



## Wannaberich

TakeMeHigher said:


> Can I ask what other business and industry there is in Dubai apart from construction?
> 
> In other words, what permanent 'real' jobs and economy will sustain the property sales and rentals?


prostitution


----------



## Dubai_Steve

If there is a merger between Nakheel and Emaar, what does this mean for Nakheel Harbour Tower? They will no longer be in competition over the tallest tower.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> If there is a merger between Nakheel and Emaar, what does this mean for Nakheel Harbour Tower?


The name would be changed to Nakheel Emaar Harbour Tower


----------



## baba toto

baba toto said:


> porshe911 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody know when the developer is planning to start on Lawns III in JV Triangle??
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody??:bash:
Click to expand...


----------



## FWIW

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t...ectors/banking_and_finance/article5226527.ece

The indebted are coming - we are saved!

Don't you think these guys should learn about interest and haraam before lecturing us?


----------



## skdubai

lol, this one is really funny.........


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> If there is a merger between Nakheel and Emaar, what does this mean for Nakheel Harbour Tower? They will no longer be in competition over the tallest tower.


^^ I would be more concerned about product quality and customer service.


----------



## makerian

Wannaberich said:


> The name would be changed to Nakheel Emaar Harbour Tower


Actually I think there will eventually be a sky bridge linking the Burj Dubai and the Nakheel Tower. It will be the longest and highest sky bridge in the world.


----------



## IISinbadII

Abu Dhabi, backed by the largest sovereign wealth fund, is taking over Amlak Finance and Tamweel with backing from the UAE government

Real Estate Bank, the Abu Dhabi-based lender that will take over Amlak and Tamweel, will be combined with Emirates Industrial Bank in a new entity called Emirates Development Bank.


----------



## makerian

IISinbadII said:


> Abu Dhabi, backed by the largest sovereign wealth fund, is taking over Amlak Finance and Tamweel with backing from the UAE government
> 
> Real Estate Bank, the Abu Dhabi-based lender that will take over Amlak and Tamweel, will be combined with Emirates Industrial Bank in a new entity called Emirates Development Bank.


What happens to the those holding Tamweel and Amlak shares. Are they being bought out?


----------



## Josau

Must read article - Ajman properties

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081124/BUSINESS/156762294/1137


----------



## FWIW

Interesting article: http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081124/BUSINESS/150155495/1005/rss

30% of total property value is lost if you stop payments/reneg on contract...


----------



## thinkpositive

Josau said:


> Must read article - Ajman properties
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081124/BUSINESS/156762294/1137


Must read article - Ajman properties 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Must read article - Ajman properties

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20...156762294/1137
Hi Jossu: I am trying to read this article via the link you provided however it does not allow me to read the article inspite of taking me to the correct page. I have tried searcing directly on national web site but they do not show this article at all. Any idea why. have they put a ban on this article. I you can copy and paste it on this forum that will be helpful to very one,
Thanks


----------



## Wannaberich

Some agencies are no longer accepting off-plan properties to sell which are at least 2 years from completion.


----------



## jeetha

^^Probably because of JV’s doggy developers


----------



## Opus 2009

FWIW said:


> Interesting article: http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081124/BUSINESS/150155495/1005/rss
> 
> 30% of total property value is lost if you stop payments/reneg on contract...


^^
What if only 10% is paid. Is it possible to walk away from the deposit, or does the developer have the right to sue for the balance 20% ?


----------



## Wannaberich

jeetha said:


> ^^Probably because of JV’s doggy developers


Woof woof.I think you mean 'dodgy' developers?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> Better Homes are no longer accepting off-plan properties to sell which are at least 2 years from completion.


So that includes Marina Sky Towers then :banana:


----------



## hot4dubai

Wannaberich said:


> Some agencies are no longer accepting off-plan properties to sell which are at least 2 years from completion.


^^well then that would rule out major projects like Palm Jebel Ali. They may be more selective but cant see this being a blanket rule....mention a Garden home to them and see their reaction!:nuts:


----------



## jeetha

I meant dodgy. 

Trying to type with phone in one habd. I mean hand.


----------



## sam69

*Credit squeeze grips Dubai real estate* 

http://www.ameinfo.com/176099.html


----------



## Wannaberich

Wannaberich said:


> Some agencies are no longer accepting off-plan properties to sell which are at least 2 years from completion.


Just got an email from a friend in Dubai who told me this.The well known company she spoke to said they were not accepting properties to sell which are at least 2 years from completion.


The first agent she spoke to said they were not accepting ANY offplan properties.
She then rang back and another agent said it was only units 2 years from completion.
Hers is only a few months from finish so she was told to fax the details including her asking price which was around the same prices she had seen other units in the same building.
The agent emailed her back and said they would only be prepared to list the property at a price which the agent quoted,this was way below her asking price.28% below infact.
If they are doing this with everyone then they will help to drive prices down around Dubai.


----------



## makerian

Wannaberich said:


> The agent emailed her back and said they would only be prepared to list the property at a price which the agent quoted,this was way below her asking price.28% below infact.
> If they are doing this with everyone then they will help to drive prices down around Dubai.


At present time, the number of transactions in the market are very low. Brokers have an incentive to get sellers to lower their prices to a point where buyers are willing to step in. So agents are acting, as always, in their best interest.


----------



## Wannaberich

makerian said:


> At present time, the number of transactions in the market are very low. Brokers have an incentive to get sellers to lower their prices to a point where buyers are willing to step in. So agents are acting, as always, in their best interest.


I realise that but 28% less is a joke.This tells me they dont give a damn about the seller.
They just want to talk them into selling at a price which would make it
extremely easy to sell so that they can get their commision.

This kind of practice from one of Dubais largest real estate companies could
really drag all the prices down like I said.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Prices in the UK only fell 15% so far in total. So 28% is a joke by these dodgy agents. :nuts:


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Prices in the UK only fell 15% so far in total. So 28% is a joke by these dodgy agents. :nuts:


I think you meant 'doggy'? Woof Woof.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The americans are comming to Dubai.

NEW YORK, Nov 24, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Emerald View Properties, a real estate marketing, sales, and consulting firm linking U.S. investors to residential and commercial properties in the UAE, announces the launch of their new office in New York City. Already a highly regarded firm out of Washington, D.C., Emerald View is a team of experts in real estate sales, portfolio investment, REIT management, development, property management, and relocation services. After building a loyal American investor following for properties in the UAE, this expansion from the nation's capitol to the Big Apple highlights the growing demand for their services.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Property companies and developers in Dubai are offering easier payment terms for people buying property in the emirate, in an attempt to ease the impact of the global credit crunch in the region. 

Adamant that it will not be scrapping any planned projects, Deyaar Development Company is to offer existing and future customers more flexible payment structure. 

Deyaar is currently working on a number of schemes including the Business Bay, International Media Production Zone, Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Lake Towers, Tecom, Waterfront and Downtown Jebel Ali.

Union Properties will also be offering more relaxed payments schemes, which include giving investors the option to rent, own or rent-to-own in any of its residential or commercial properties in its Index tower, Limestone House and MotorCity developments in Dubai.

Elsewhere, Emaar Properties has just introduced a new development that extends property payments over a five-year period after handover and another scheme where people can try before they buy, with the option to rent a home before deciding whether to buy it.

It is not just Dubai that is taking measures to whether the property downturn. With property prices falling in nearby Qatar, local developer The Land has slashed in half the down payments investors need to pay when purchasing some homes on the Pearl-Qatar, a manmade island being constructed off the coast of Doha.

http://www.homesoverseas.co.uk/news/easier-payment-terms-introduced-in-dubai/18207


----------



## legal eagle

*I see dead people*



Dubai_Steve said:


> Property companies and developers in Dubai are offering easier payment terms for people buying property in the emirate, in an attempt to ease the impact of the global credit crunch in the region.
> 
> Adamant that it will not be scrapping any planned projects, Deyaar Development Company is to offer existing and future customers more flexible payment structure.
> 
> Deyaar is currently working on a number of schemes including the Business Bay, International Media Production Zone, Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Lake Towers, Tecom, Waterfront and Downtown Jebel Ali.
> 
> Union Properties will also be offering more relaxed payments schemes, which include giving investors the option to rent, own or rent-to-own in any of its residential or commercial properties in its Index tower, Limestone House and MotorCity developments in Dubai.
> 
> Elsewhere, Emaar Properties has just introduced a new development that extends property payments over a five-year period after handover and another scheme where people can try before they buy, with the option to rent a home before deciding whether to buy it.
> 
> It is not just Dubai that is taking measures to whether the property downturn. With property prices falling in nearby Qatar, local developer The Land has slashed in half the down payments investors need to pay when purchasing some homes on the Pearl-Qatar, a manmade island being constructed off the coast of Doha.
> 
> http://www.homesoverseas.co.uk/news/easier-payment-terms-introduced-in-dubai/18207



I see buy opportunities for income hunters....come on people^^


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai has set up a nine-man committee to tackle the global financial crisis.*

*The advisory council reports directly to the ruler Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al-Maktoum*, also the prime minister of the United Arab Emirates.
Its mandate is to assess and review Dubai government finances, the real estate and banking sectors and equity markets. It will also look to encourage further central bank action to ensure banks and companies have access to sufficient liquidity. 

The committee is made up of key business and political figures including the heads of the top three property firms and the sovereign wealth fund, the chief of both of Dubai's bourses, and federal government representation through the UAE Cabinet Affairs Minister and the vice-chairman of the central bank.

*THE ADVISORY COUNCIL*

*MOHAMED ALI ALABBAR - Chairman, Emaar Properties*

Once the face and voice of Dubai in the early days of the boom, Mohammed Ali Alabbar has spent much of the last three years quietly building up a regional property empire, overseeing the construction of the world's tallest tower and biggest malls and battling shareholder discontent. The finance and business graduate has been brought in to chair the new advisory council and will be its spokesman. Alabbar is also the director-general of the Dubai Department of Economic Development.

*NASSER BIN HASSAN AL-SHAIKH, Director-General of the Dubai Department of Finance, Chairman of Amlak Finance and Deyaar*

Like Alabbar Shaikh has been pushed into the limelight over the last few weeks after returning to a position similar to one he held previously as head of Dubai's Department of Finance. In charge of Dubai's sovereign debt, the calm and measured Shaikh has also been leading the merger between Amlak and fellow mortgage lender Tamweel.

*MOHAMMED AL-GERGAWI, UAE Minister of Cabinet Affairs, Chairman of Dubai Holding*

One of Sheikh Mohammed's closest aides, Gergawi's role will also be to link any Dubai action with federal action in his capacity as minister of state for cabinet affairs. He is chairman of the Executive Office, a top government body led by the ruler, and is chief executive of the ruler's private company Dubai Holding, which is an investor in Sony and EADS. Its real estate arm Dubai Properties is one of the emirate's leading three developers.
ESSA KAZIM - Chairman of Borse Dubai and the Dubai Financial Market
Kazim was director-general of the Dubai Financial Market (DFM) from 1999 to 2006 before assuming the role of chairman and taking a more hands-on approach to the development of the Dubai International Financial Exchange (DIFX). His membership gains further importance given the DFM falling almost 70 percent this year. Kazim has also overseen the sale of a 33 percent stake in DIFX to NASDAQ OMX and last week its rebranding into the NASDAQ Dubai.

*MOHAMMED AL-SHAIBANI, Director-General of Dubai Ruler's Court, CEO of Dubai's sovereign wealth fund Investment Corporation of Dubai*

Widely deemed to be the man behind the scenes, Shaibani wears many hats. He has come into greater prominence over the last year taking on new positions such as chairman of Dubai Islamic Bank, leading the emirate's anti-corruption drive and assessing the emirate's key entities. He heads up the ruler's court and is chief executive of its sovereign wealth fund. He also sits on the board of Emaar.

*OMAR BIN SULAIMAN, Governor of the Dubai International Financial Centre and Vice-Chairman of the UAE Central Bank*

As governor of the Dubai International Financial Centre, bin Sulaiman's mandate is to convince the world the Middle East's Canary Wharf can compete on a global stage and become the bridge between east and west. Among his many roles, he is also chairman of DIFC Investments, which holds a 2.2 percent stake in Deutsche Bank. He was recently appointed to the board of the UAE central bank as vice-chairman.

*SULTAN BIN SULAYEM - Chairman of Dubai World*

Since the onset of Dubai's construction boom in 2002 bin Sulayem has filled the pages of the international media with some of Dubai's most glamorous and ambitious projects. From three man-made palm-shaped islands to a map of the world reclaimed from sea and now plans for a kilometre-high tower, bin Sulayem has made his name in property through Nakheel. His mandate as chairman of Dubai World also covers the world's fourth-largest port operator DP World. 

*ABDUL AZIZ AL-MUHAIRI - Managing Director of the Investment Corporation of Dubai*

Muhairi joined Dubai's sovereign wealth fund after stepping down from his position as chief executive of Dubai Bank in May. With a bachelor of science degree, Muhairi was one of the architects in converting Dubai Bank into an Islamic bank and paving the way for it to become one of the world's largest Islamic financial institutions within five years.

*MARWAN BIN GHALITA - Chief Executive of the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA)*

An engineering graduate from California State University, Ghalita has spent the bulk of his career at the Dubai Land Department. Ghalita holds the keys to Dubai's real estate sector after being handed the top job of regulating the industry and clamping down on malpractice in 2007. Since RERA's creation, Ghalita has overseen a new mortgage law, the introduction of Escrow and the end of property flipping.


----------



## Josau

thinkpositive said:


> Must read article - Ajman properties
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Must read article - Ajman properties
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20...156762294/1137
> Hi Jossu: I am trying to read this article via the link you provided however it does not allow me to read the article inspite of taking me to the correct page. I have tried searcing directly on national web site but they do not show this article at all. Any idea why. have they put a ban on this article. I you can copy and paste it on this forum that will be helpful to very one,
> Thanks


^^Here the article. I guess they removed it (lookat the title, which is the original title)
*
Slowdown hits Ajman projects-DONOT PUBLISH-desk wants it held*
The off-plan property model that has fuelled record prices in the UAE is set to disappear as financing dries up due to the global economic crisis.

Industry insiders say Ajman is expected to suffer the most, as the majority of the emirate’s developments are off-plan and have not yet been started.

According to property agents, more than 90 per cent of projects launched in Ajman, mostly along the Emirates Road, are off-plan.

“The paper [off-plan] market will die, because developers will be unable to secure financing for the foreseeable future,” says Ali al Shihabi, the founder and chief executive of Rasmala Investments.

Zaid Siddik, from brokerage firm Aqua Properties, said only Emirates City was near 50 per cent completed.

Like most UAE markets, off-plan sales in Ajman have decreased despite the past allure of low prices, guarantees of a residence visa and a freehold law that allowed non-GCC citizens to buy.

While the average sale price in Dubai is near Dh1,800 (US$490) per square foot for flats, and topping Dh3,000 in certain projects, Ajman’s prices range between Dh530 and Dh570 per sq ft, by far the lowest in the Emirates.

Even at those levels, prices in Ajman also have surged over the past year, making it highly attractive for speculators who planned on flipping, or reselling, their units after a few months. In December of last year properties were selling for about Dh450 per sq ft.

“Work in Dubai and live in Ajman” is a piece of advice often given to middle-income expatriates struggling with Dubai’s soaring rents and property sale prices.

“Ajman is a very promising market,” says Dirk Sassen, a shareholder of the German investment fund ICT, which is developing three towers in Ajman. “About 80 per cent of expatriates who are coming belong to the middle class and earn Dh10,000 to Dh25,000 – teachers, employers, bankers, accountants, nurses, etc. They need accommodation and Ajman is as far from Dubai’s centre as International City and much less expensive.”

Ajman may appear to lag behind Dubai and Abu Dhabi in infrastructure, shopping malls and tourist attractions but property agents point out that Dubai did not look much different 10 years ago.

So should Ajman be considered when buying a home? The developer’s history should be a key consideration, as many of them are based in foreign countries and are inexperienced. Also, prices in Ajman are both a strength and a weakness of the market.

Saqib bin Tariq, the sales and marketing manager at Goldcrest, thinks that “the positive aspect about the market going down [across the UAE] is that prices will be more acceptable for end-users. But the market is becoming dangerous now. Some people are selling at Dh250 to Dh450 per sq ft. Certain developments will never exist.”
Developers estimate construction costs of about Dh350 per sq ft, in addition to Dh75 per sq ft on average for a plot of land in Ajman. “When I see that people [at the last Ajman property exhibition] have sold towers at Dh390, then I know they can’t build it,” Mr Sassen says.

“In Dubai, we have seen new regulations introducing registration, escrow account, etc, so the Wild West type of speculators moved one emirate further up and landed in Ajman.”

A broker says: “You suddenly had a situation where 10 people would buy a plot of land, eight of whom wouldn’t really know what they are doing. They would show you nice pictures and say if that guy sells for Dh350 then I can do that too.”
ICT has scheduled the beginning of construction on its Ajman towers for this month, but has sold only 10 per cent of the project so far, at Dh465 a few months ago to Dh550 today.

“The problem is not only the selling price but also how much I have sold,” Mr Sassen says. “A good developer will need 30 months to build a tower, while the level of inflation is above 10 per cent per year. So if someone has sold 80 per cent of a tower for Dh450 [per sq ft], he just can’t proceed.”

During the Local Property Show two weeks ago in Ajman, some developers were selling below construction cost. A sales consultant at Bhakti Real Estate said his agency had bought a whole building, Wings Tower in Humaid City, in April when the market was about Dh350 to Dh370 per sq ft. The agent had already resold most of the units at Dh450 and higher, but the developer – Abu Dhabi Estate Investment Center – had not even started building, the broker said. Completion of the project is due in mid-2011.

Inside Track Real Estate Brokers, the marketing arm of Al Barakah’s properties, offered flats at Dh441 per sq ft: “And if you buy five apartments, you get one free.”
Another broker said he was selling flats in the Al Forqan project in Emirates City at Dh380 per sq ft. “The developer started building the ground floor one year ago and hasn’t done anything since. We are not sure that they are actually going to build it,” he said.

Mr Tariq agrees, saying: “Developers selling at under Dh450 per sq ft will never be able to build the project and certainly not with the right quality. These are developers who want to get rid of a project.”

Another risky practice widespread in Ajman is buyback offers, in which small developers attract investors by promising to buy back a property after six months and give a post-dated cheque, with a “guaranteed” profit. Brokers are already dreading bounced cheques and disappearing developers.

While government-backed master developers control most of the projects, they have sold off some plots to unknown sub-developers. “Just count the people who already have built a tower in Ajman,” Mr Sassen says. “Most of them have only experience in four-floor to seven-floor buildings. They have only a vague idea of what building actually costs.”

As for larger waterfront projects such as Al Zorah, a city set to accommodate 200,000 people and widely advertised by its Lebanese developer Solidere International, they are at a very early phase and have sold plots to potential developers. Many of the latter are also speculators who now can not resell their plots. “And if the sub-developers default, the master developer won’t be able to finance the infrastructure,” Mr Siddik warns.

Other issues hang over the future of the market.
“Three to four months ago, business was very good. Investors were interested in two things – residence visas and low prices,” says Rajvinder Singh, from JCA Real Estate. But pressure from the government has stopped developers providing residence visas to buyers.

“The visa issue is a big problem,” says Reza Safari, from Al Kawthar, another broker. “Before, developers in Ajman and Dubai would advertise the fact that they would provide buyers with a residence visa. Now they are saying that they have frozen it.”
Concerns about electricity supply remain strong even with already-completed properties in Ajman. The Government of Ajman did sign an agreement in July with Malaysian Mining to build a 1,000-megawatt power plant at a cost of $2 billion, but it will not begin providing power until 2012.

Many uncertainties also hang over financing of the developments as banks are reluctant to cover the projects. So far, developers have scraped through by offering attractive payment plans, but as buyers struggle to raise finance there are many facing tough times.

Diversified companies such as Goldcrest have more flexibility. “We are also involved in other sectors – construction, gold. So we are not in a hurry,” says Mr Tariq. “Completing our project is not only about the reputation of our brand, it is also about the reputation of the whole country.”

Doubts about the ability of some developers to complete projects are causing nervous times for investors as, unlike Dubai, Ajman’s market is not protected by an effective escrow law. Authorities are expected to address the issue.

Ajman Property News, November 2008


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> *
> 
> MOHAMED ALI ALABBAR - Chairman, Emaar Properties
> 
> Once the face and voice of Dubai in the early days of the boom, Mohammed Ali Alabbar has spent much of the last three years quietly building up a regional property empire, overseeing the construction of the world's tallest tower and biggest malls and battling shareholder discontent. The finance and business graduate has been brought in to chair the new advisory council and will be its spokesman. Alabbar is also the director-general of the Dubai Department of Economic Development.
> .*


*

Just seen this guy interviewed on Sky News.Seemed pretty cool and laid back to me.Trying to dampen the doom and gloom from the ignorant british reporter.
Basically said Dubai isnt in trouble and if some projects need to be delayed so be it.Basically no big deal.

The same reporter said prices have dropped 40% which as we all know is maybe in a few isolated cases only.So far.
Not the right thing to be saying to all the potential investors watching.*


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I agree the official figure was 4% drop not 40% that keeps being touted from those few isolated distressed seller cases.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> I agree the official figure was 4% drop not 40% that keeps being touted from those few isolated distressed seller cases.


The idiot also said they will decide next year on whether they will actually go ahead with the Nakheel Tower.Haven't heard any doubt on this project from anyone else.
Pisses me off this lazy,ignorant reporting.
Can't let those Arabs take over the world,these jealous westerners are thinking.Must do our best to keep them down.
Bull !


----------



## legal eagle

*well said*



Wannaberich said:


> The idiot also said they will decide next year on whether they will actually go ahead with the Nakheel Tower.Haven't heard any doubt on this project from anyone else.
> Pisses me off this lazy,ignorant reporting.
> Can't let those Arabs take over the world,these jealous westerners are thinking.Must do our best to keep them down.
> Bull !


Well said wannabe!

Its amost blatant jealousy.... I admit when I turned up here in 2004, I was choosing Dubai based on money alone... (tax saving particularly & potential to invest freely our company profits)...

Now I truly feel it is a place I would be very happy to bring up a family in, shockingly I think it is a place I will call home for a long time... I say shockingly because I was convinced this would be elsewhere...

Yes there are prettier more cultural places but Dubai works, and as an HQ I want the function not the form.

I can get on a plane and go virtually anywhere fast so I am only hours away from a Parisian cafe, an LA film awards ceremony, or a Sydney opera performance.

An HQ requires alot more then "oh my god this Village is sooo sweet and the people so real and unaffected", or "I just love the sangria and the cost of a beer here, its so more real then Dubai"...

It requires good healthcare, access to real and decent labour and vitally, efficient communication (logistics too).


----------



## docc

^^ Why would anyone expect cheap food or booze when they visit a 5 star (rest aside BAA) hotel?


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> ^^ Why would anyone expect cheap food or booze when they visit a 5 star (rest aside BAA) hotel?


7 star and I haven't a clue.


----------



## kano

docc said:


> ^^ Why would anyone expect cheap food or booze when they visit a 5 star (rest aside BAA) hotel?


 Where have you been Doc?


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Also,how many people convert the currency of the country they are visitng into their own to see how much things will cost.


Exactly, I have lived here 10 years and it still seems like Monopoly money, so easy to spend it and think later. Bought a copy of FHM for 59 chips couple of days ago. It was only when I pulled it out later for a quick read I realised that's over a tenner now. Outrageous. 

Bet your financial adviser mate will think twice before he goes back to the BAA....


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> 7 star and I haven't a clue.


I know BAA is 7 star and hence the "rest aside" comment. I wouldn't expect cheap booze or food in a regular 5 star hotel, so your friend really shouldn't have been surprised by the bill at BAA!


----------



## docc

kano said:


> Where have you been Doc?


I've been around. Just tired trying to fight the minions of doom and gloom, hence why i mostly ignore their posts! 

By the way, expect some VERY BIG announcements in early 09  (all ofcourse which will stabilize the market as well as help it grow).


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> , so your friend really shouldn't have been surprised by the bill at BAA!


Hey not my friend.Anyone who walks into the Burj and thinks he's in McDonalds is no friend of mine.


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> By the way, expect some VERY BIG announcements in early 09  (all ).


U keep saying this.So give us a clue and how do u know?


----------



## smussuw

I hope it isn't as good as pushing the shares of Amalk and Tamweel down to one Dirham in order to merge them under a majority governmental owned company hno:


----------



## Mistermark

docc said:


> I know BAA is 7 star and hence the "rest aside" comment. I wouldn't expect cheap booze or food in a regular 5 star hotel, so your friend really shouldn't have been surprised by the bill at BAA!


Back in July I stayed at the Grosvenor House in Dubai Marina when I was over there taking delivery of two apartments. Compared to other five star hotels I've stayed in I was pleasantly surprised by the food and drink prices, not only in the lobby bar area but also the Gary Rhodes restaurant the floor above. As five star hotels go I thought the place itself was only OK, I've known better, but the food was really good and the prices surprised me for being so reasonable.

So I guess the baseline price in Dirhams is very reasonable, so it's mostly that anyone used to Dubai may get a shock at the Sterling/Euro equivalents now.


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> U keep saying this.So give us a clue and how do u know?


Because i know some people in the right places. I don't like rumor mongering so i'm only giving out hints and information based on my own credible sources. I don't do the whole "friend of an uncle's cousin who works for the relative of...."thing 

I can't say more until information is made public, so i'm just going to stay mum. You've already read some of the big news regarding Abu Dhabi Finance and the likes


----------



## Richard Head

Mistermark said:


> Back in July I stayed at the Grosvenor House in Dubai Marina when I was over there taking delivery of two apartments. Compared to other five star hotels I've stayed in I was pleasantly surprised by the food and drink prices, not only in the lobby bar area but also the Gary Rhodes restaurant the floor above. As five star hotels go I thought the place itself was only OK, I've known better, but the food was really good and the prices surprised me for being so reasonable.
> 
> So I guess the baseline price in Dirhams is very reasonable, so it's mostly that anyone used to Dubai may get a shock at the Sterling/Euro equivalents now.


I don't think there are many places in Dubai where the food prices would frighten people, they are no more expensive than any other part of the world in comparable 5 star environments. Sure if you want to compare the costs of your holiday in say, Jumeirah Beach Hotel against some crummy 3.5 star hotel in Spain then your wallet is going to suddenly feel very light. I think in general most people that come here know the deal. It only really starts to hurt if you give the wine list a hammering.

Example - been to Nobu twice as a group of 4. First time was a schoolnight so went easy with a couple of beers each. Second time was a Friday so a few red wines were in order. Respective bills were 1900 and 4200. Where else in the world can you eat in an incredible place like that for what equates to 85 quid a head even at the current damaging exchange rates?


----------



## Richard Head

docc said:


> Because i know some people in the right places. I don't like rumor mongering so i'm only giving out hints and information based on my own credible sources. I don't do the whole "friend of an uncle's cousin who works for the relative of...."thing
> 
> I can't say more until information is made public, so i'm just going to stay mum. You've already read some of the big news regarding Abu Dhabi Finance and the likes


So Docc, since I don't know where you're from I can't quite decipher if you're being sarcastic or straight, just like to know one simple thing - are these planned announcements good news or bad? I mean from our optimistic perspective of course.


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## docc

^^ Good news ofcourse!

Good news for intelligent medium and long term investors and bad news for the speculators, flippers and the over extended.


----------



## smussuw

Latest prices I have 

an apartment in a completed tower in Dubai Marina for 850 psf
a house in Hydra Village in Abu Dhabi for 591 psf

how true are those?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

"850 psf you say? Even I can afford that! :cheers:"


----------



## Tractor

Buying a completed marina apartment at 850/sq ft is a no brainer ... regardless of position, view, etc.! You'll make a nice rental yield.


----------



## High Times

Richard Head said:


> Partly true, but then the UK holiday contingent coming here have never been those that flip a coin between Dubai or another week at the caravan park in Skegness. The hotels will put some good deals out there to keep occupancy levels up, and with the never-ending doom and gloom in the UK the incentive to get away for a nice bit of winter sun has never been bigger.


Tourists from the UK make up a massive percentage of tourists in Dubai.

Are you saying that a 25% price increase on the payable price of the holiday, as well as a 25% price increase on your spending money costs, as well as recession, job losses and reducing real wealth wont have an effect on numbers coming to Dubai from the UK.

Mmmm interesting point of view.

Do you realise that most tour operators based in the UK (selling holidays to UK citizens) have reduced their stock of holidays by around 30% for 2009 in preparation for the year ahead.

This means that there are 30% less holidays available to buy. Worst destinations expected to be hit are Dollar denominated destinations

I think all that sun has gone to your Head Richard.


----------



## chris100

> Are you saying that a 25% price increase on the payable price of the holiday, as well as a 25% price increase on your spending money costs, as well as recession, job losses and reducing real wealth wont have an effect on numbers coming to Dubai from the UK.
> 
> Mmmm interesting point of view.
> 
> Do you realise that most tour operators based in the UK (selling holidays to UK citizens) have reduced their stock of holidays by around 30% for 2009 in preparation for the year ahead.
> 
> This means that there are 30% less holidays available to buy. Worst destinations expected to be hit are Dollar denominated destinations
> 
> I think all that sun has gone to your Head Richard.


Tour operators cutting capacity by 30% are bucket and spade charters where rooms and flights are chartered in advance. Holidays to Dubai are booked using scheduled carriers and direct deals with hotels so this is irrelevent. If anything, it will lead to more people holidaying in Dubai as capacity has been cut from traditional charter destinations. With Xcel Airways bankrupt there will be little capacity in the Carribean so Dubai will benefit again. 

You can easily pick up economy seats to Dubai for £300 and hotels will no doubt reduce prices so tourism will continue to flourish. 

Atlantis got massive media exposure and now QE2 arrival is all over the news and this marketing is priceless for Dubai. If Kerzner spent £14M on his opening party that is money well spent considering he got prime time slots on virtually every major news channel in the world and coverage in papers etc. I wonder how much a 30 second advert/half page newspaper advert would have cost across all these channels? 

I have a lot at stake in Dubai and am 100% sure that this is a small blip and things will recover.


----------



## Wannaberich

Priceless coverage
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/vi...15162228_QE2_Arrives_In_Dubai_On_Final_Voyage


----------



## docc

^^ Nah, i'm not buying anything right now. Just wanted to know what my options were if that were the case.

Thanks for the advice though.


----------



## docc

IISinbadII said:


> docc, after all what we have gone through.....
> ...you are still thinking OFF-PLAN?????
> 
> :bash: hno: :nono: :down:  :hammer: :mad2: :wallbash: :shocked: :uh:
> 
> :badnews:


Lol, well, i should have termed it right. When i meant off-plan, i meant that it wasn't completed, but was under construction and should be done in another 6 months. This was in JLT btw.

I wouldn't touch anything that was only on paper ONLY with a 10 foot pole right now!


----------



## Wannaberich

One major real estate company won't even put off-plans on their books if at least 2 years from completion.
How many other agents are doing the same.Investors in JVillage must be panicking.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Depends if he means off-plan or constructrion already started. If already started then *it is a good idea to buy now *- many bargains to be had and great rental yields to have at completion - with amazing capital growth to be had in the long term. If I was an agent I would be pushing those bargains to investors looking for rental yield for retirement with great capital growth prospects in the long term.


----------



## Wannaberich

I would be put off buying off-plan for anything thats either not started or has only just begun.You just dont know how safe it is to buy into something that isnt at least 70% done.
What if the developer gets into financial difficulties in these times and goes bust,or cancels,or asks for more money,or doesn't start the build for months/years.No thanks.


----------



## Smokeey

^^ Agreed. Unless its a well-known developer I think anything thats in the very early stages of construction is still potentially at risk of non-completion. Look at MiNC Property and what's happened with their Marina Suites project.


----------



## AdamHun

Wannaberich, I`m not panicking, nevertheless the others are.  But agree with you, in case of JV South all depends on Nakheel if they finish the infrastucture or not... they said they would prioritize their projects and I don`t think this gonna be the top prio.

On the other hand it`s cheaper to finish some roads in the middle of the desert than making islands, etc... isn`t it? Let`s hope the best.


----------



## Wannaberich

^^ What happened on this project?so far there doesnt seem to be many started projects that have come to a halt?maybe this will become more common the longer the banks dont lend money.


----------



## Wannaberich

AdamHun said:


> Wannaberich, I`m not panicking, nevertheless the others are.  But agree with you, in case of JV South all depends on Nakheel if they finish the infrastucture or not... they said they would prioritize their projects and I don`t think this gonna be the top prio.
> 
> On the other hand it`s cheaper to finish some roads in the middle of the desert than making islands, etc... isn`t it? Let`s hope the best.


Talking of Nakheel,I cant see the universe will go ahead now !!!:banana::cheers::rock::cucumber:


----------



## docc

Lending will start again and everyone knows that there's a SEVERE need for that.


----------



## AdamHun

Agree, most of them are crap. I`m not worried `cause mine has started and it`s on the emirates road and the developer an Abu Dhabi one. However I know I didn`t made the best decision when bought in that project (JVS itself), but I think we need to sit tight and remain positive through this time.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

docc said:


> Lending will start again and everyone knows that there's a SEVERE need for that.


Don't forget that most of Select Property apartments come with 15 year finance built in at approx. 7% interest. May be some bargains with LPP to be had on the resale market, although you may find you need to put 40% or 50% down to cover payments already made by the original buyers.


----------



## porshe911

Masood said:


> baba toto said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't hold your breathe guys, 2 years to put fencing up, construction could take 20 years on that account!
> 
> Seriously though, I keep telling everyone to get out of Dubai (and JVS in particular) asap. All developments in JVS Circle are slow or no progress (with some exceptions i.e. Al Fara) - that too me implies that the govt or master developer (Nakheel) is intentionally delaying things on the whole of JVS for one reason or another.
> 
> Quit whilst you're ahead, get your money back and stop those sleepless nights - I did (different project in JVS) and despite the financial loss, I'm much better knowing the money is safe in the bank. Wait longer and you'll find more obstacles like new dubai laws going against investors.
> 
> 
> 
> i agree with you
Click to expand...


----------



## Mistermark

Dubai_Steve said:


> Don't forget that most of Select Property apartments come with 15 year finance built in at approx. 7% interest. May be some bargains with LPP to be had on the resale market, although you may find you need to put 40% or 50% down to cover payments already made by the original buyers.


For this reason alone I would have thought that Torch (and other SP) properties on the LPP would be some of the most desirable part-built resales in Dubai right now. So it's painful to see how cheaply the torch was trading, even before the current downturn. I can only think it's because of concerns about the completion date - the developer is still claiming September 2009, but I'd be surprised if I see the keys to mine before the end of 2010.


----------



## Smokeey

Wannaberich said:


> ^^ What happened on this project?so far there doesnt seem to be many started projects that have come to a halt?maybe this will become more common the longer the banks dont lend money.


According to the Marina Suites thread, the bank who were financing the project pulled out recently (after construction began) and so the developer asked all the investors to put more money in to save the project. So at the moment it looks like the project is on hold. I'll grab a link for the thread in a sec.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mmmm,so Tim Marshall live on Sky News said they will be deciding next year whether to go ahead with this project.
Get your facts right you ignorant ****.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/539756-worlds-tallest-tower-plan-will-not-be-delayed


----------



## docc

^^ Maybe you should have a go at him again


----------



## Wannaberich

If anyones interested,heres Tim Marshalls exerts from the Sky Webcast.
Check out the first bit about Nakheel.He said live on Sky a decision will be made next year on whether to go ahead with the tower but looks like he never even spoke to them !
He also claimed theres as much crime in Dubai as in other cities.Errr I dont think.
Its not all bad though.He does like Dubai and had some good things to say.
He's just a crap lazy reporter thats all.


Tim Marshall: Joe. Nothing has been postponed officiallly. there is simply a commsion to look at what they might postpone - and i dont know about nakheel - but some decisions have already been taken just not announced. announceden - just not
Tim Marshall: hi paul - yes on property prices falling up to 40% 
but i think overall it will beok g
Tim Marshall: check out the J pALM, WE KNOW ONE GUY who has no neighbours within 6 houses each side of him
Tim Marshall: Joe - do you go to the giant barracks for the labourers, or the courts on a Sunday morning? not everyone is getting on b with eachother. dubai has done brilliantly and is to be admired - but its not paradise.
Tim Marshall: Jamie - good food EVERYWHERE - its a gourmets paradise if not New Yoik.
Tim Marshall: I think prices will come down a bit in the new year. Hotels are more openin to negotiting now
Tim Marshall: Joe at last we agree. If and when the economies come back, circa 2010 this place well positioned. i think of it as the modern city state - venice for 21st c
Tim Marshall: Oh and the QE2 - on then horizon due into harbour by 5 we are 4 hours ahead of london so dusk by then and then fireworks
I quite like the idea that it has a perm home - better than being melted down for steel joints.
Tim Marshall: Guest. I love it - maybe aug july a little too hot bit i can cope rest of time.
Tim Marshall: Joe - its in the eye of the viewer. i ALSO been criticised for painting TOO rosy a picture of dubai - how do yu explain that
Tim Marshall: Joe Where's the crime!!! You have to be kidding. Just becasue the newsppers cant cover it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. Go to the courts and enjoy a day of theft, rape and violencve. just ike everywhere ese.
Tim Marshall: Joe if i cud afford one yes (dubai property)
Tim Marshall: not double standards - pragmatic. modern ad quite sophisticatedin realtion to other gulf sttes
Tim Marshall: Oh there is v little oil here. it accounts for about 6% of gdp but theyve used the money billiantly and diversified - its abu dhabi with the oil and gas
Tim Marshall: Guest. you can find whatevr culture you want including a slower paced old Dubiai life....but the majority of visitors want shopping and sand.
Tim Marshall: I can tell for many people Dubai is the new Australia - the way that was in the 60's and 70's the place of opportunity - and es t is, and yes Joe its safe, and yes its fun.
Tim Marshall: Ahmeds right. Abu Dhabi accounts for 85% of UAE oil i think. Dubai hasnauilkdig and bought into tourism, desalination, buildings and finance. Power has moved east and UAE part of that. its sovereign wealth funds will effect the whole world.#
Tim Marshall: Joe. I think somemof s are stuck in the 'Lawrence ofr Arabia' headset re the Arabs and havent caught up with where they are and when confronted by sheer success some of us are snobbish about it
Tim Marshall: I gota go - we heading for Abu Dhabi 2nite. Now that place really has got money! and isuilding check out the plans for it by 2030 - they make fascinating reading b. and they are going to plan the city roads and traffic so they dont make the mistakes made here. Ive had fun - thanks all - please keep on chatting to Ahmed.


----------



## docc

He seems to be positive about Dubai about overall, so why is he taking a shot at it in the video's?


----------



## High Times

*Consolidation - Dubai moves forward into a new phase.*

Dubai has finally admitted that it is part of the global financial marketplace and is not therefore immune to what the rest of the world is suffering from.

Despite denial from the hardcore optimist investors that frequent this Forum claiming that this is a blip, most are now accepting the facts that the party is over, at least for a while. It has taken a few months but I think your all signed up now. 

I actually think it is a good thing for Dubai to take a breather as it will allow itself the time needed to catch up with events, and take stock of what is required to secure a great future for this City, and also what can be discounted from the vision.

The global economy will take at least 12 – 18 months, possibly 24 months to begin expanding again. The US needs to wake up from their hangover first, then Europe and the UK. Once the so called western civilisations are back into spend mode Asia, the BRIC’s and Gulf states will feel the flow of wealth returning to their shores, both in terms of western spending, and in terms of their income (Gulf States), as the price of oil will rise again as global demand increases once more.

This will be when Dubai has a second bite of the cherry. There will be a whole new wave of investors looking to party, but it will depend on how Dubai behaves in this period of hibernation (in relative terms), that will make the difference.

I think that most completed properties will hold up fairly well as long as it is in a good location. We all know where these are don’t we. 

Under construction prices will sit still until they become completed properties and then they will assume the average price for that particular area in terms of completed properties. Variance from the average of a district will exist based on views, facilities and prestige of a particular project but this variance will only be 10% - 15% in my view.

Off plan contracts that are not U/C are a worthless piece of paper as far as I am concerned, and there are millions of these floating around the Dubai at the moment. 

If the CEO of Emaar says in a statement that *"some projects may be put on hold"* , this is press office speak for *“there will be a lot of projects cancelled and even more delayed”*. This is where Dubai needs to show the world that it is a safe place to invest and cancelled projects need to be announced quickly, with full refunds going directly to the investor. This alone will be repaid ten fold when the world is spending again in 2-3 years. If we see a lot of heel dragging and indecision then this will harbour a lot of hostility towards investing in Dubai for a very long time. Negative thoughts have a very long memory.

What will happen in the forthcoming period of consolidation remains to be seen.

In my view rents in completed properties will come down. I feel that the government have always wanted this to happen, and this is the perfect opportunity. There are many ways to do this as supply and demand wont allow for it to happen due to supply being distorted, especially now as the future supply artery has just been severed by Dr credit crunch and his very blunt scalpel.

The Government has made a pretty benign attempt thus far by implementing the 3 year tenancy ruling, and capping rent increases as we know. Rental index is also yet to materialise.

Investors being investors, have decided to keep units empty and this has held rents artificially high. Dubai’s abundance of properties were never intended to be sold to speculators in the first place, they were supposed to be housing for all the new population of Dubai. The problem is everyone got greedy, and nobody had the balls to stop it. In fact it was encouraged, and now everyone is sat holding property that is not yet needed. The only difference between the US housing crash and Dubai is that Dubai property owners don’t need to sell *YET*. 

Global inflation is reducing and that makes Dubai rents even more of an anomaly. If stubborn landlords wont release more supply into the market freely then it will be legislated for. One obvious option is that the Government in Dubai will implement some kind of rule where you get taxed on empty property which will force landlords to rent them out. And this will in turn reduce rents to a more sustainable level. This will lead to more people choosing to come to Dubai who are not construction workers, maids or service sector staff. 

Sheikh Mohammed once wisely said *“build it, and they will come”.*

He didn’t say *“ build it, sell it to speculators, and leave them empty”.*


----------



## Safrica

hi. I am a muslim south african and invested in many countrys including the uk,india, south africa, us and dubai.

We have a large investment in dubai and my gut feeling always was to stick to established markets. The biggest problem in dubai is that there is a lack of law and protection in business and the ease of the justice system.

I have had developers making mistakes with no recourse to buyers.

Developers taking deposits or complete amounts with projects starting years later with no law to protect the buyer or compensation.

People who are not being able to make payments losing there savings with no other options.

Why are buyers losing there savings according to a contract but the developers that are delaying have all the protection.

On a smaller scale i cancelled by visit to india next month and suppose to be in dubai in early jan because of the current situation. I have used a apartment rental company mystaygroup.com to cancel my booking i was told that there are no refunds and they would speak to there managers.

It is sad that dubai being a muslim country do not follow true islamic laws and allow companies to steal from others. That companies are allowed to bully investors knowing that they are helpless. 

In developed countrys these things are unheard of and if things like this happen it is exposed by the press and the consumer voice is strong with the law. 

My feeling today after seeing the true dubai is to wait this market than sell out and go back to established and just markets.

I personally have enough resources to meet all my commitments but cannot understand the logic of people losing all there payments upto 30% with no compensation. No extention of payment terms with developers that have promised to have building completed that still have not started
WHERE IS THE JUSTICE


----------



## Wannaberich

What goes up must come down and vice versa.We can all spend hours and hours analysing,analysing,analysing but at the end of the day we all know when the global economy picks up then so will Dubai.
Dubai will not crumble,dissapear or collapse whilst the rest of the world prospers.Nor will it swim in success whilst everywhere else suffers economic failure.So all you foreign journalists 
laughing in the background,get real.
Anyone who called it right before everyone else then give yourself a cigar.Its called luck.
Anyone who thinks they know exactly how its going to go, then again,its just guesswork.
All thats sure is that prices will go upwards again.

Meanwhile,as has been said,this will be a period where we hope alot of the rubbish will be cleaned out of Dubai.The flippers,speculators,crooked developers,gangsters,mafia whatever.Also,the crazy onslaught of launch after launch after launch has come to an end which is good.
Building without thought for the structure and wellbeing of Dubai and just
for some greedy developer to make some money isnt good.
Dubai can catch up.Finish U/C projects before starting the next.Getting the infrastructure well underway.The metro,buses,DEWA supplies which could barely keep up.Internet,phones,whatever.Let all this catch up a little and then lets build with a more sensible and thoughtful approach.

In a few years time we might look back and think the financial crisis that has hit the world and now Dubai, is the best thing that ever happened for the sake of its future.


----------



## IISinbadII

*The Dubai government has indicated that it is looking at holding down the roll out of upcoming housing units to steady the emirate's real estate market...*

Emaar Chairman and Chairman of Dubai's Advisory Council, Mohammed Alabbar, told delegates that the government would work with the emirate's three largest property developers to 'manage' the upcoming supply of real estate projects....

http://www.ameinfo.com/177248.html


----------



## Thorneyvilla1

Rent Caps?

Some forum members have mentioned rent caps as a possible way to stabilise the rental market. I wonder what you investors would think of that?

Whilst I'm sure you all want to make as much rental yield as possible, one has to realise that it can reach a point when its detrimental to Dubai's long term success.

I ask this, as a source at a major TV station based in DMC (the biggest) is looking to relocate out of Dubai as it is not willing to pay the salaries needed for their staff to live here. This is the biggest TV company in the region with approx 800 staff, who were given free rental of their building in DMC to attract others to come. They're not short of money either, it apparently just doesn't make financial sense for them to stay (and have to pay secretaries 25k per month, when they can move to Cairo or Doha and pay them 15k). This is surely uncomfortable for DMC, worried that if they leave others will follow.

The point is that the rental situation has reached a level where it is scaring businesses away from Dubai. Not good for anyone. Perhaps rental caps are needed, any suggestions as to what these might be?


----------



## smussuw

They should build 3X Karama near Al Maktoum Airport, problem solved :happy:


----------



## NajamD

Safrica said:


> hi. I am a muslim south african and invested in many countrys including the uk,india, south africa, us and dubai.
> 
> We have a large investment in dubai and my gut feeling always was to stick to established markets. The biggest problem in dubai is that there is a lack of law and protection in business and the ease of the justice system.
> 
> I have had developers making mistakes with no recourse to buyers.
> 
> Developers taking deposits or complete amounts with projects starting years later with no law to protect the buyer or compensation.
> 
> People who are not being able to make payments losing there savings with no other options.
> 
> Why are buyers losing there savings according to a contract but the developers that are delaying have all the protection.
> 
> On a smaller scale i cancelled by visit to india next month and suppose to be in dubai in early jan because of the current situation. I have used a apartment rental company mystaygroup.com to cancel my booking i was told that there are no refunds and they would speak to there managers.
> 
> It is sad that dubai being a muslim country do not follow true islamic laws and allow companies to steal from others. That companies are allowed to bully investors knowing that they are helpless.
> 
> In developed countrys these things are unheard of and if things like this happen it is exposed by the press and the consumer voice is strong with the law.
> 
> My feeling today after seeing the true dubai is to wait this market than sell out and go back to established and just markets.
> 
> I personally have enough resources to meet all my commitments but cannot understand the logic of people losing all there payments upto 30% with no compensation. No extention of payment terms with developers that have promised to have building completed that still have not started
> WHERE IS THE JUSTICE


Agree with you entirely. Such laws and rules are unheard of in civilized countries. And if Dubai wants to be part of the civilized world, then it has to learn to uphold justice and protect consumers and investors as well as the developers. You simply cannot stop the flow of credit that was promised at the beginning of a project, expect investors to fork out 100% of the investment and take their money if they then struggle. No civilised society will allow that.


----------



## Hanna

*Damac "Rumours "*

Hi 


I read this today


Developers that may be under some ‘cash stress’. And of rumours in the marketplace. Which leads me to advise that Damac will soon be in new ownership. How did they last so long !!! 

Any locals based people heard of anything about the above statement. :cheers:



Could be like the same deal the Government got with some British Banks they got them for nothing ! 
(Tax Payers money) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Thorneyvilla1

NajamD said:


> You simply cannot stop the flow of credit that was promised at the beginning of a project, expect investors to fork out 100% of the investment and take their money if they then struggle.


Couldn't agree more.

It would appear, if previous posts are true, that the powers that be here in Dubai are also the heads of the main developers, Chairmen of Emaar & Nakheel. The 'flippers' cannot be blamed for eveything when these 'leaders' actively encouraged the wild speculation that led to 5k-7k per sq ft apartments. Behaviour that is now considered to blame. And now the very same people are in charge drawing up new 'legislation' to get out of this mess and build a new more sustainable marketplace. Where was the 'grand plan'? Do they have, did they have, a plan at all? 
The global credit crunch looks like a convenient excuse to blame others, when, from the outside looking in, it looked like a huge cash-grab from top to bottom.


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## Wannaberich

Party time is over
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/539796-launch-parties-take-a-hit-amid-real-estate-gloom


Shock,horror,negative equity comes to Dubai.Whatever next.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/539780-repossessions-likely-as-negative-equity-arrives-in-dubai


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## Wannaberich

NajamD said:


> You simply cannot stop the flow of credit that was promised at the beginning of a project, expect investors to fork out 100% of the investment and take their money if they then struggle.


Especially if the developer is the Dubai goverment ! Imagine that !


----------



## Mistermark

I agree 100% with High Times' post. He has called it right so far, and I've tended to agree with him along the way.

In particular, there does seem to be a certain amount of ambiguity/wriggle room in the statement by Emaar's CEO. Is he saying that the developers will work together to manage the supply of new projects (ie ones not yet announced) or of properties already sold and (in theory or actuality) under construction?

The minute they start cancelling or deliberately delaying contracted properties, Dubai's reputation is shot for good. Simple as. If the country's rulers want to preserve any value in the brand they need to focus their efforts on getting developments completed that people have paid money towards.

As for what will happen to rental yields, I'm hearing conflicting opinions. It seems to me the main factor is what happens to the population numbers. If the downturn in property and finance continues, and if there's a knock-on effect in other sectors (for instance, the media sector is suffering from a reduction in advertising spend by these two categories) then quite a few people will lose their jobs. 

Unlike, say, the UK, where most people have been here for a number of years and have roots, even if they weren't born here, and pretty much all have a right to reside irrespective of being employed, most people who lose their jobs in Dubai have to leave the country. This could have quite an effect on rental demand.

On the other side of the argument are those who argue that these sectors are not that important to the Dubai economy, that it's still in growth and that the government will inject liquidity and take other steps necessary to stabilise matters.


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## Wannaberich

Not the first time I've read a report like this about the big increase in foreign applicants for Dubai employment.
There may not be the positions at the moment, but when things pick up,there won't be a shortgage of willing workers who will be potential property buyers/renters.
http://www.7days.ae/storydetails.ph...cal news&title=Jobseekers come to flee crunch


----------



## jamjaruk

Received a leaflet from Property Dubai here in the UK. They've got a grand opening & Exhibition in Essex for the 'Trinity Heights' project in Jumeirah Village.

Here's the print, "Invest £130k and receive 70% share of the rental profit."

"No slow down in the market with up to 50% capital growth since last year" - Although true, I don't see that much growth for the foreseeable future.

"Only 10 minutes from Downtown - Burj Dubai."

:lol:

Why don't these people just leave us alone, when firms start advertising to the general public through mass media about property, you know there's something wrong. I mean, they've made their money during the good times and want to suck in as many idiots as possible. hno:


----------



## Mistermark

Wannaberich said:


> Not the first time I've read a report like this about the big increase in foreign applicants for Dubai employment.
> There may not be the positions at the moment, but when things pick up,there won't be a shortgage of willing workers who will be potential property buyers/renters.
> http://www.7days.ae/storydetails.ph...cal news&title=Jobseekers come to flee crunch


It doesn't surprise me that there's a big upswing in the number of people wanting to relocate to Dubai. Trouble is, with the high cost of living and difficulty for non-property owners to get residency without jobs, the impact they'll have on the rentals market depends on the number of vacancies in the local economy. And here, there are differing views. I'd like to think there won't be a significant downturn, but I'm not sure.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> It doesn't surprise me that there's a big upswing in the number of people wanting to relocate to Dubai.


Especially with all the publicity Dubais had in the last week especially in the UK.The Atlantis party,live coverage of fireworks on major channels,breakfast TV 2 day special,Sky News week long special,coverage of QE2 arrival.
My God its been wall to wall for a week.
Then this weekend there'll be specials on the 'Sex on the Beach' couple arriving and giving interviews.Unfortunatly the papers will portray Dubai as the latest glamorous party town which will attract the wrong type of people from the UK.


----------



## Wannaberich

Any know when the new rental index comes into force?


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Rental Index for what? 

It was supposed to be a "guide" for newcomers. Since they don't want rich non-working people (hens no visa) and have no new jobs (thanks to the economy)......there won't be any newcomers and therefore no need for any Index.


----------



## Wannaberich

^^ If you can't give a sensible answer then don't bother.


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Stop living in the past and you will start understanding. ^^


----------



## Wannaberich

If any non-timewasters out there could answer my question would appreciate it.


----------



## NajamD

Wannaberich said:


> ^^ If you can't give a sensible answer then don't bother.[/QUOTE
> 
> Now now kids, stop fighting!!!! lol This crunch appears to be getting every one in a bad mood!!


----------



## Dubai_Steve




----------



## TakeMeHigher

OCD.


----------



## 234sale

One for the ex-agents out there


----------



## mrsuezjbr

^^

You only had ONE car???


----------



## HappyLarry

Lifted from article in Business24-7.
_...research from CB Richard Ellis showed.

Its Global MarketView Office Occupancy Costs survey found tenants in London's West End paid an average $248.66 (Dh912.58) per square foot for office space in the year to September 30, while Abu Dhabi office rental costs surged 94.6 per cent to $132.44.

"There's downward pressure on many of the markets covered by the survey and certainly London, in particular, is susceptible to that," Richard Holberton, director of EMEA Research at CB Richard Ellis, said.

"Whether this changes the relative positions of each market, it's very difficult to say," he said.

Meanwhile, rents in London's West End were on average $14 more expensive per square foot than in Moscow, the world's second most expensive office rental market. Growth in Abu Dhabi was almost double that of the world's second fastest growing office rental market of Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam.

Illustrating the appeal of the Middle East to multinationals, *Dubai was ranked the world's third fastest-growing office rental markets with rents of $156.53 per square foot.*
_

Now, we have seen Business Bay Commercial offices under construction, advertised for sale at around 2500 AED.psf. That is a yield of about 23% (based on $156.psf). 

CB Richard Ellis is a highly respected organisation and I'm not going to dismiss their survey, but let's pose some what ifs.

Rents drops to $100, price stays at 2500 AED.psf ---> yield = 14.7%.
Rents drops to $100, price goes to 4000 AED.psf (+60%) ---> yield = 9.2%


My thoughts are that, right now, Dubai commercial in Business Bay for projects under construction should not be less than 4000AED.psf.

But hey, I am no Einstein.
:cheers:


----------



## IISinbadII

HappyLarry said:


> Now, we have seen Business Bay Commercial offices under construction, advertised for sale at around 2500 AED.psf. That is a yield of about 23% (based on $156.psf).
> 
> CB Richard Ellis is a highly respected organisation and I'm not going to dismiss their survey, but let's pose some what ifs.
> 
> Rents drops to $100, price stays at 2500 AED.psf ---> yield = 14.7%.
> Rents drops to $100, price goes to 4000 AED.psf (+60%) ---> yield = 9.2%
> 
> My thoughts are that, right now, Dubai commercial in Business Bay for projects under construction should not be less than 4000AED.psf.
> 
> But hey, I am no Einstein.
> :cheers:


Rents in JLT office space around 220-240 psqft.
Business Bay is a better location being near downtown, but its largely off-plan.....a big construction site that will take many years to complete. 
With the global downturn and Dubai being an expensive city in comparison to other cheaper alternatives.....business are thinking of moving out of Dubai....
So unless we see a reversal of this trend.....who will occupy hundreds of these BB towers (both commercial and residential)?

With several towers complete, right now JLT is a much better option AED @ 1700 psqft with good yields, IMO.


----------



## Arno Salzl

Thorneyvilla1 said:


> I ask this, as a source at a major TV station based in DMC (the biggest) is looking to relocate out of Dubai as it is not willing to pay the salaries needed for their staff to live here. This is the biggest TV company in the region with approx 800 staff, who were given free rental of their building in DMC to attract others to come. They're not short of money either, it apparently just doesn't make financial sense for them to stay (and have to pay secretaries 25k per month, when they can move to Cairo or Doha and pay them 15k). This is surely uncomfortable for DMC, worried that if they leave others will follow.


Should be a wake up call for Dubai government. Media people, high educated, mostly arab-speaking, are highly contributing to the spirit of DMC (little Beirut) and Dubai. If they cannot afford reasonable rents (in the range 40000 to 60000 pa for 1BR) close to DMC, Dubai has a problem.IMHO


----------



## Arno Salzl

From The Economist, November 29th, 2008

*Dubai: Has the bubble burst?*

"... some nervous bankers think property could fall by 80% or so int the next year or so....

.... shares in property firms have lost 80% of their value since June .... "


----------



## Arno Salzl

*Problem is not to be constructed but what is constructed already !! *
_Posted by Hal-Luke Savas, Wednesday 26 November 2008 at 02:29 UAE time_

Sir, 
The real problem in the Middle East (particularly in UAE) is not the slowdown of construction but how best to care for the buildings that are already constructed!. It is sad to hear the deafening silence on developing best management practices for the existing building stock and this will cause even bigger problems than over-supply of cement in years to come. 

Facilities Management (especially the Strategic Facilities Management) of skyscrapers, multi-use buildings, towers, specialised installations et al is not the easiest task in the world and improper management of these can sow the seeds of man-made disasters in years to come. 

In my humble view, the slowdown of construction is Middle East is actually a good sign, so that precious time is spent on training and caring, automating and monitoring for those existing buildings and making their life-cycle cost calculations even more attractive for investors (is there any one not liking these words?!).

Having dedicated 30 years to building and caring of buildings take it that these words are straight from the horse's mouth!!


----------



## nri-hotels

Arno Salzl said:


> *Problem is not to be constructed but what is constructed already !! *
> _Posted by Hal-Luke Savas, Wednesday 26 November 2008 at 02:29 UAE time_
> 
> Sir,
> The real problem in the Middle East (particularly in UAE) is not the slowdown of construction but how best to care for the buildings that are already constructed!. It is sad to hear the deafening silence on developing best management practices for the existing building stock and this will cause even bigger problems than over-supply of cement in years to come.
> 
> Facilities Management (especially the Strategic Facilities Management) of skyscrapers, multi-use buildings, towers, specialised installations et al is not the easiest task in the world and improper management of these can sow the seeds of man-made disasters in years to come.
> 
> In my humble view, the slowdown of construction is Middle East is actually a good sign, so that precious time is spent on training and caring, automating and monitoring for those existing buildings and making their life-cycle cost calculations even more attractive for investors (is there any one not liking these words?!).
> 
> Having dedicated 30 years to building and caring of buildings take it that these words are straight from the horse's mouth!!



I agree with you. Could you summarize exactly which aspects of an unfinished project should be maintained and how, (until the market/investors recover) ?


----------



## Thorneyvilla1

High Times said:


> In my view rents in completed properties will come down. I feel that the government have always wanted this to happen, and this is the perfect opportunity.[/B]


Yes. This is quite evident in Emaar's recent 'rent-to-own' scheme. 1 bedroom 140k, 2 bedroom 180k. 

Could it be that they want rents to come down, just not in their properties!"

Lead by example Emaar. Good work!


----------



## IISinbadII

Thorneyvilla1 said:


> Yes. This is quite evident in Emaar's recent 'rent-to-own' scheme. 1 bedroom 140k, 2 bedroom 180k.
> 
> Could it be that they want rents to come down, just not in their properties!"
> 
> Lead by example Emaar. Good work!


I doubt if that's the case. It it were true they would rent them at a much lower rate. Also their buying prices for these units are highly inflated.

I feel they were holding on to a lot of units. Hoping to sell them at a big premium latter. But in the current market slowdown, they just want to make some money by renting them out.


----------



## Imre

rent still high , I got an offer for my 1 Bed of Goldcrest (JLT) , 140K/year with fully furnished.
I was thinking about of that , with 140K I can live in Hawaii or Tahiti for a year, but I stay in Dubai now


----------



## sameerl

As the dust starts to settle in terms of the depth of the global downturn as well as the downturn in Dubai, there are a few points that perhaps bear worth mentioning:

1) It was a relief to see the veil of secrecy being lifted off teh situation of Dubai debt by Mr Abbar. In this environment of fear, it is always beest to be transparent. However, what begs the question is why this was not done earlier. Furthermore, the nature of disclosure has to increase. It would be helpful to see the debt levels of Nakheel, Dubai Holdings, Meeras, RTA, etc, alongside their cash flows so that institutional investors have a better sense of dubai's ability to repay and service their debt levels. In international markets, this kind of disclosure is necessary; in dubai, which seeks to become a financial center, it is strange to see reluctance of disclosure. Mr Abbar's speech was a welcome first step; more needs to be disclosed and quickly.

2) Macro statistics: I have said this earlier. The Ministry of economy still does not release inflation stats on a monthly basis (the only country in the middle east not to do so). Why this is the case is again puzzling; but until dubai becomes crystal clear in terms of what dynamics are shaping the economy, this crisis of confidence and the questions that it has thrown up, will not dissipate.

3) Incentives: The way forward to kickstart trade and investment (or one of the ways forward) is to ape the singapore model and offer permanent residencies. This is not new (and i have no idea what the emirati populace thinks of this), but just as the 3 year residcency was tied to property, this tenure has not to be increased.

4) An infrastructure fund would be an interesting mechanism to mobilize investment; offering rates of return for both debt and equity holders. Banks are already starting to offer deposit rates as high as 6.5%, reflecting the lack of liquidity and high levels of risk aversion. An infrastructure fund sponsored by government agencies would help mobilize liquidity and keep investment (or atleast part of it) going. In the 1970s, the late Shk Rashid raised funds for the dredging of the creek from predomianntly indian businessmen, which was essentially an infrastructure fund then. Going down this route would also give a boost to the DIFX.


It is likley that the downturn will last more than a year, and that a series of aggressive measures will be unveiled progressively as the UAE battles its way out of this slowdown. However, stimulus measures should be alongside structural reforms that aid disclosure and long term investment in an environment that fosters confidence.


----------



## Thorneyvilla1

IISinbadII said:


> I doubt if that's the case. It it were true they would rent them at a much lower rate.



I was being sarcastic:bash:


----------



## Wannaberich

DIFC remains strong despite fears
http://www.gulfnews.com/business/money/10263387.html


Low cost appartments.More of these please for all those low paid workers so important to Dubai.
http://www.ameinfo.com/177368.html



Its not all bad news.


----------



## Tractor

Of course its not all bad news ... they control the media


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Tourism growth is still expected to be strong in Dubai despite a perceived slowdown in the travel and tourism sector, it has been claimed.

According to Khalid Ahmed bin Sulayem, director-general of the Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DTCM), previous predictions of 10 million tourists visiting Dubai by 2010 and 15 million by 2015 will not prove overly-optimistic despite the global economic downturn, Emirates Business reports.

This suggests that Dubai, and the United Arab Emirates as a whole, will remain a popular location for foreign property investment.

However, Mr Bin Sulayem has pledged that the government will not rest on its laurels.

"Our tourism target is still intact but what we are doing at the moment is trying to gather information, looking at trends and patterns around the world related to travel and tourism," he told the news provider.

"In maximum two weeks' time, we will announce a new strategy to attract tourists during the global economic crisis," he added.

The city of Dubai is the most populous in the United Arab Emirates and features the world's second-largest man-made arena.


----------



## docc

It's amazing how much of an initiative they are taking trying to make sure that everything goes according to plan. What's even better is that if things don't go according to plan, they always have a backup plan.

Really admirable IMO.


----------



## Wannaberich

Per sq ft studios generate the best income.Agreed?they also should be the easiest to rent out as they are the cheapest.Agreed?In a place like Dubai where rents are sky high,
the cheaper the unit the better.Also,on a resell studios go for more per sq ft.
Regards a three bed appartment,theres fewer around but then again fewer people who would be interested to rent it or buy it.Therefore,one cancels the other out.
Renting it for the same price as a 2bed is fine if you dont want the max money.If you do,and most people do,buying a 3 bed doesnt make sense.
Also,if the one family rule per villa was extended to appartments then it makes a 3 bed even less rentable.


----------



## High Times

^^^^

Clearly, you havn't understood a word I have said.

Lets pick up this conversation in 6-9 months time. I'm sure it will be easier for you to understand then.


----------



## AppleMac

High Times said:


> As a 3 bed landlord in a tenants market, if I offer a 3 bed for the price of a 2 bed I can give the tenant a reason to rent my unit over his other choices. For the same price he gets a bigger and more versatile apartment.


If it's a tenants market what makes you think that owners of 2 beds are not going to reduce prices to attract business.

Your business model (renting a 3 bed for the price of a 2 bed) only works if you are the only owner reducing prices - if all owners reduce prices on all sizes of property you are no better off.


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> ^^^^
> 
> Clearly, you havn't understood a word I have said.
> 
> Lets pick up this conversation in 6-9 months time. I'm sure it will be easier for you to understand then.


No really I did understand.Your going to rent out a 3 bed for the price of a 2 bed.Great business.

Obviously you also didnt understand what I was saying.
Quote 'Renting it for the same price as a 2bed is fine if you dont want the max money'
Fine as in of course it will make your 3 bed alot easier to rent.
See you in 9 months,longer if you need it.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

As there is a lot of supply currently under contruction that will be available in 2009 and 2010 for rent then we can see that rental prices will fall as demand will not keep up with supply even though more people will be renting rather than buying at present.

Given this situation we will see rental yields drop in line with prices so this will be a real correction across the board, probably going back to prices and rents of 2 years ago. In my opinion it will take at least 4 years for prices and demand to recover and then go back to that of August 08.


----------



## smussuw

^^ I think he was saying that the market will be flooded with studios and 1Br making them worthless unlike his 3Br


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What is the ratio of studios / 1 beds / 2 beds / 3 beds apartments?

I think there are a lot more studios and 1 beds than there are 2 beds and much less 3 beds so smussuw is correct in sumarising HTs point


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> ^^ I think he was saying that the market will be flooded with studios and 1Br making them worthless unlike his 3Br


Flooded for a reason.Its what everyone wants.
So if you have a 1 bed thats hard to rent just rent it for the price of a studio.
If your studio is hard to rent,then reduce the price.
Its not genius.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think there are too many studios and 1 beds, the demand for these comes mostly from speculators not from end users. End users want spacious apartments not cupboards designed for flipping.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> What is the ratio of studios / 1 beds / 2 beds / 3 beds apartments?
> 
> I think there are a lot more studios and 1 beds than there are 2 beds and much less 3 beds so smussuw is correct in sumarising HTs point


I think you're missing the point.There are far less 3 beds and far less takers.
If it was easy to rent a 3 bed for the going rate then buying one would be a smart move.However,renting it for the price of a 2 bed because your finding it hard to get a tenant means it wasnt such a good investment in the first place.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> I think there are too many studios and 1 beds, the demand for these comes mostly from speculators not from end users. End users want spacious apartments not cupboards designed for flipping.


Of course thats what they want but then they cant afford them.
Therefore studios and 1beds is what they have to go for until rents come right down.


----------



## Tractor

Actually, end users want the best that they can afford within their budget. Which is why when times are tough you're far safer owning less luxurious property than 'aspirational' stuff.

Having said that, the tenant of a 3-bed is likely to be more reliable than your average studio resident.


----------



## Wannaberich

Tractor said:


> Having said that, the tenant of a 3-bed is likely to be more reliable than your average studio resident.


Errr,why?


----------



## High Times

AppleMac said:


> If it's a tenants market what makes you think that owners of 2 beds are not going to reduce prices to attract business.
> 
> Your business model (renting a 3 bed for the price of a 2 bed) only works if you are the only owner reducing prices - if all owners reduce prices on all sizes of property you are no better off.


Ok, what started off as an answer to a question is getting a bit silly now (in true investment thread style).

Just to clarify my position.

Applemac - Its not a business model, more of a contingency plan, if things get tight. A bit like a high street store having a 20% discount sale. Every shop in the High Street does it, but it is still a valid marketing excerise. The fact that everyone is doing it doesnt make it any less viable.

If all landlords do this then your right, the 1 beds and studios will be worthless as the 2 beds will be marketed at studio prices and 3 beds at 2 bed prices (in the case of your example of copy cat pricing).

This is the extreme view but effectively the smallest properties have less wriggle room so it is much better to have a bigger property in this extreme scenario. As i said in fractional terms the mass market is studio, 1 and 2 beds. 3 and 4 beds are the minority and so your example of copycat pricing (however unlikely) actually makes my argument more valid as the smaller availability of 3 beds have the upper hand on the oversupplied Studios ,1 & 2 beds. 



Wannaberich said:


> No really I did understand.Your going to rent out a 3 bed for the price of a 2 bed.Great business.


Again Wannabe, - it is not great business as such, I agree. We were discussing options that would be open to us as landlords in a market where there were more units available than we have been used to in recent times, due to a shrinking local population. If this was the case then as an investor you would need to act smart and use what tools were available in the current conditions.

Putting it simply,

*Its better to have a gun, and not need one, than to need a gun, and not have one.*


----------



## Wannaberich

Renting a 3 bed for the price of a 2 is more attractive than a 2 for 1 and so on.Maybe?
One problem may be if like I said,the one family per villa rule is extended to appartments.As it is,a 3bed might be ideal for 2 unmarried couples but thats against the law already.Also,a family would prefer a villa.
What is the market for a 3bed?
If max money isnt the priority then renting a 3 for a 2 gives the owner a big upper hand.
Also,when rents come down like it seems they may do, then it will be even easier to rent.Maybe even for full price.


----------



## High Times

smussuw said:


> ^^ I think he was saying that the market will be flooded with studios and 1Br making them worthless unlike his 3Br


Spot on Brother.



Wannaberich said:


> Flooded for a reason.Its what everyone wants.


Fundamentaly wrong Wannebe. Dont worry, your not alone, in fact you are in the majority.

It's what is easier to sell as a developer, and it's why there will be a massive reversal in fortunes when Dubai is an established market.

Nowhere on Earth is there such a disparity between Studio, 1 bed 2 bed 3 bed accomodation. This has been driven by developers reaching for the easy sell and speculators reaching for the easy flip.



Wannaberich said:


> I think you're missing the point.There are far less 3 beds and far less takers.
> If it was easy to rent a 3 bed for the going rate then buying one would be a smart move.However,renting it for the price of a 2 bed because your finding it hard to get a tenant means it wasnt such a good investment in the first place.


No. You have missed the point.

The current situation of less takers for 3 beds and more takers for Studios, and 1 bed and 2 beds. Has been falsly created by speculation and greed.

Bottom line is when Dubai is a fully functional society larger homes will be desired by end users. Smaller property wont.

Just my opinion of course. We all make our own beds.


----------



## AdamHun

Demand might be out there, but currently living in Sharjah/Ajman. If rental prices fall in dubai, they (at least some of them) might consider to move to dubai, instead of commuting 4-5 hours a day. What do you think?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

How much are rents in Sharjah/Ajman at the moment?


----------



## skdubai

40-50k for single bedrooms.


----------



## nri-hotels

hot4dubai said:


> ^^That can work both ways mate. What will you advise people later on who have missed the boat and can no longer afford to buy or investors who missed out on great returns when they can buy at amazing prices right now?


Are you kidding? Show me one news item saying that Dubai properties are a good buy now, or even in six months or one year. The crash has already started and unless the developers refuse to complete their unfinished projects, too much supply will enter next year and prices and rents will drop drastically. With rich expats losing their jobs and going back to their countries, all who is left are low-middle income earners. The real horror will be seen sometime 2nd quarter next year.

Another wild feeling i got is that OPEC is likely to break up, because its poorer members who need cash infusion during this recession will likely pump and dump their production to willing Indians and Chinese who need to fuel their internal demands. We can likely see mid $30s per barrel by December. Its no surprise that Ahmadinejad stated $5/barrel is workable for Iran. Looks like he is trying to bring OPEC to its knees.


----------



## smussuw

^^ only UAE and GCC nationals ....


----------



## smussuw

AltinD said:


> ^^ Exactly my story.


yes but u are way too old. :laugh: He only rented it like 1.5 years ago !


----------



## AltinD

^^ But maybe the building is also new.


----------



## smussuw

^^ yes, I think it was brand new when he moved there


----------



## IISinbadII

nri-hotels said:


> Probably a good time to change that law, dont you think ?


No, it is the worst time to introduce such a law. Thousands of units are in the pipeline and due to layoffs demand would decrease at some point. One way out is to delay some projects (which they are thinking of doing) and attract more businesses.. And OPEN THE VISA....rich folks from troubled countries would love to move to Dubai in their "safety homes". They could potentially bail-out Dubai instead of Abu Dhabi. All we need is "Dubai, my second home" type program.


----------



## worried1

*Goldman Sachs reducing head count in Dubai*

Both Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley are reducing head count in Dubai

Extremely worried now:bash:


----------



## docc

So, what everyone is saying is that demand for apartments is going to reduce creating an oversupply, thus causing rents to decrease. One of the reasons for this is the fact that companies are laying off people in large numbers right? Is anyone taking into consideration, the number of people moving to Dubai? More than a thousand business licenses were issued in the MONTH of October. Where are these people going to live? So, any chance that the incoming new blood will offset the reduced demand due to lay offs? If one person is being laid off, many more are joining in different sectors. Make sense? Call me stupid, but that's how logic serves me.

Seriously people, take a chill pill and stop being negative Nancy's. Dubai is only going through what the rest of the world is; this isn't an isolated incident and it isn't the ONLY city in the world to face these kind of problems. If you compare the lay offs in Dubai to lay offs in other major cities in the world, you'd be laughing, so please don't make Dubai out to be the disaster you think it is.


----------



## Arno Salzl

IISinbadII said:


> .. And OPEN THE VISA....rich folks from troubled countries would love to move to Dubai in their "safety homes". They could potentially bail-out Dubai instead of Abu Dhabi. All we need is "Dubai, my second home" type program.


Once again, I would like to point out that residency policy is a federal matter, i.e. Sheikh Saif bin Zayed Al Nahyan business. Along with his brother (the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and UAE Chief of Staff Sheikh Muhammad bin Zayed Al Nahyan) and his (partially foreign) advisers, his main concern is the national security.

Imagine that a country, not too far from here, with a Shia majority, gives incentives to 100.000 of its loyal officials (police, military, party, etc) to buy an apartment in Dubai, giving them access to residency, bank account and car ownership, etc.
Imagine, a conflict arises, and the said country decides to block the Strait of Hormuz. That the UAE decides to intervene, but cannot because roads, harbours and airports are blocked by the 100.000 residents sitting in their cars.
Repeat the exercise with other countries not far from here.
And tell me now what you do if you are interior minister. In this peaceful country, we are too quick to forget that external forces can destabilize it.


----------



## docc

^^ Very valid points. I can totally see this happening if things really were to go haywire.


----------



## hot4dubai

worried1 said:


> Both Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley are reducing head count in Dubai
> 
> Extremely worried now:bash:


^^Dear worried lets get things into perspective here my friend....the Morgan Stanley group reduced their headcount by only 10-15 people! Sounds worse when it is splashed across the newspapers that it is slashed by 15%...but hey sounds more exciting when the Media overblow it.

How about Sony Professional Solutions group sees Buisness potential as markets slow down in USA, EUROPE, JApan etc...Swings and roundabouts..funny how news like this is relegated to a small column at the back of the newspaper!


----------



## IISinbadII

Arno Salzl said:


> Once again, I would like to point out that residency policy is a federal matter, i.e. Sheikh Saif bin Zayed Al Nahyan business. Along with his brother (the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and UAE Chief of Staff Sheikh Muhammad bin Zayed Al Nahyan) and his (partially foreign) advisers, his main concern is the national security.
> 
> Imagine that a country, not too far from here, with a Shia majority, gives incentives to 100.000 of its loyal officials (police, military, party, etc) to buy an apartment in Dubai, giving them access to residency, bank account and car ownership, etc.
> Imagine, a conflict arises, and the said country decides to block the Strait of Hormuz. That the UAE decides to intervene, but cannot because roads, harbours and airports are blocked by the 100.000 residents sitting in their cars.
> Repeat the exercise with other countries not far from here.
> And tell me now what you do if you are interior minister. In this peaceful country, we are too quick to forget that external forces can destabilize it.


First of all, UAE is a very small country with hardly any military power to be able to do anything. Secondly, no need for Shia-phobia.... there already are hundreds of thousands of Shia living and working in the UAE, both nationals and ex-pats. They have religious, cultural and historic ties with the UAE. Sheikh Mohammad and his father had given religious freedoms to them not seen in other lands and because of this they love this country.....besides this is not a Shia-Sunni, Muslim-Christian or Hindu issue. Thousands of Europeans (mostly Christians), Pakistanis (mostly Sunnis) and Indians (mostly Hindus) could benefit from property based visas. Third, no one is saying that all property owners should be given visas just like that. There could be proper procedures, background checks, etc.


----------



## smussuw

^^ no


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ in that case, can you tell me who will live in the thousands of units being built in Dubai and Ajman?


----------



## docc

^^ Smussuw and his children and great grand children and all his relatives and their children and grandchildren and so on and forth.

Instead of weekend getaway's, they'll have everyday getaway's :lol: What say smussuw? Sound interesting?


----------



## smussuw

^^ They should do something like buy 1 and get 3 for free :lol:



IISinbadII said:


> ^^ in that case, can you tell me who will live in the thousands of units being built in Dubai and Ajman?


Do I look like I care?


----------



## Arno Salzl

IISinbadII said:


> . Third, no one is saying that all property owners should be given visas just like that. There could be proper procedures, background checks, etc.


Agree. It is not what developpers like Minc, Aspire, Dynasty Zarooni, ACI, Define, Schon etc habe been telling to their customers.


----------



## glover

according to the arabic daily al-Bayan, Deyyar has decided to freeze all payments for six months in consideration of the current economic conditions. hope other developers follow through!! this will help out in reducing the number of disstress sales and alleviate the correction.


----------



## IISinbadII

Arno Salzl said:


> Agree. It is not what developpers like Minc, Aspire, Dynasty Zarooni, ACI, Define, Schon etc habe been telling to their customers.


I don't care what developers have been telling.


----------



## Philippa C

glover said:


> according to the arabic daily al-Bayan, Deyyar has decided to freeze all payments for six months in consideration of the current economic conditions. hope other developers follow through!! this will help out in reducing the number of disstress sales and alleviate the correction.


I agree it would be a great help.

I'd be interested to see the data on which recent stats showing a fall in house prices are based. We keep hearing that there are very few sales so the stats showing a fall in house prices are probably based on just a couple of sales. You can shape data to show anything you want - for stats to mean something you have to consider confience levels and margins of error.


----------



## worried1

*They stopped construction Now in JLT*



hot4dubai said:


> ^^Dear worried lets get things into perspective here my friend....the Morgan Stanley group reduced their headcount by only 10-15 people! Sounds worse when it is splashed across the newspapers that it is slashed by 15%...but hey sounds more exciting when the Media overblow it.
> 
> How about Sony Professional Solutions group sees Buisness potential as markets slow down in USA, EUROPE, JApan etc...Swings and roundabouts..funny how news like this is relegated to a small column at the back of the newspaper!


Hello there hot4dubai, thanks for the reassuring words, but construction just stopped at Laguna Tower in JLT :bash:


----------



## Mistermark

IISinbadII said:


> No, it is the worst time to introduce such a law. Thousands of units are in the pipeline and due to layoffs demand would decrease at some point. One way out is to delay some projects (which they are thinking of doing) and attract more businesses.. And OPEN THE VISA....rich folks from troubled countries would love to move to Dubai in their "safety homes". They could potentially bail-out Dubai instead of Abu Dhabi. All we need is "Dubai, my second home" type program.


I agree with this. The key to maintaining the state of the Dubai population is to ensure the population of affluent ex-pats keeps growing. Currently, if they lose their jobs they have to go home after a month. This should be relaxed. Plus, as Sinbad says, wealthy people from other countries who either own or rent property in Dubai should have the right to remain there, whether or not they're working, provided they're not a drain on the state.


----------



## hot4dubai

worried1 said:


> Hello there hot4dubai, thanks for the reassuring words, but construction just stopped at Laguna Tower in JLT :bash:


^^ r u sure...I went to the thread and that does not seem to be case. Have you heard an announcement or r u assuming this to be case?


----------



## IISinbadII

*New RAK rent cap law*

-A 15 per cent annual rent cap will be issued on tenancy contacts signed before January 2004, 
-A 10 per cent rent cap on tenancy contracts from after January 2004 until January 2008 and
-A 5 per cent rent cap on tenancy contracts issued from January 2008 onward.

(The rent cap can be applied a year after the expiration of the tenancy contract).

*The standard tenancy contract period is three years, or a time agreed between the lessee and lessor. In times of disagreement, the longer period will be recognized.*

The landlord cannot evict tenants unless they fail to pay the rent within 15 days or if the tenant sub-lets the property without proper written authorization from the landlord.

The landowner can also evict tenants who use the property for illegal activities, or if the property is proven to be dangerous.

*Property owners may have the right to deny tenancy for property when he proves that he or one of his children are in need of it.* 

A two-month grace period must be given for the tenant in such conditions which should take place through the emirate's court only. 

The law warns that if landlords fail to meet these conditions for eviction give the tenant the right to claim compensation.


----------



## High Times

docc said:


> Make sense? Call me stupid, but that's how logic serves me.


Doc, Your stupid. 




docc said:


> So, what everyone is saying is that demand for apartments is going to reduce creating an oversupply, thus causing rents to decrease. One of the reasons for this is the fact that companies are laying off people in large numbers right? Is anyone taking into consideration, the number of people moving to Dubai?


Doc, on a serious note. Your right to say that Dubai is no different from the rest of the world in terms of a shrinking economy and recession. This begs the question, if Dubai is no different from the rest of the world then why does it behave in such a different way. 

What I mean is that the global economy is clearly contracting and is likely to do so for at least another 12 months. This means fewer businesses, fewer jobs, less wealth.

For Dubai to continue with it's bullish construction program, it is simply creating massive oversupply further down the line.

People leaving Dubai are fairly well paid financial services and real estate agents. People coming to Dubai are low paid workers in construction and service industries. I have yet to see figures that accurately reflect the demographic of immigrants coming to Dubai. I only hear huge numbers are coming. This is part of the massive propaganda machine that is being driven by Government, Developers, Real Estate agents etc.

Many developed economies have halted construction whilst their economy shrinks, so that sensible judgements can be made on what happens next. The UK as an example has basically suspended most housing construction even though there is a predicted shortfall of 1 million housing units over the next 10 years.

You know the story in the US. I am watching Florida for buying opportunities at the moment and the place looks like a half complete building site with companies folding over the last year leaving half built sites. What a mess !!

I don’t want this to happen in Dubai. I’m sure you don’t either.


----------



## Chicklet

Hi all,

Everyone on this post seems to know a lot about the Dubai property market so was hoping i could get some advice ....

I bought an off-plan property from a company called ACI. Its a great property and the area looks fab but its not due to be completed till 2010. I didnt apply for a mortgage at the time and now im in desperate need of getting one to cover the next installment. None of the banks are lending for off-plan projects these days and i dont have the funds to cover the next installment. ACI arent offering me any support on this and i have no idea what to do!! Any advice is welcome....


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> People leaving Dubai are fairly well paid financial services and real estate agents. People coming to Dubai are low paid workers in construction and service industries. I have yet to see figures that accurately reflect the demographic of immigrants coming to Dubai. I only hear huge numbers are coming. This is part of the massive propaganda machine that is being driven by Government, Developers, Real Estate agents etc.


^^ This is exactly why I think Dubai has to offer something EXTRA to attract rich people to move-in.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai should bring in a minimum wage bringing the wages of the lowest paid up with the same level as the western world.
Restaurants,shops,etc dont charge any less because they are saving so much by paying cheap wages.Some countries you can buy a 3 course meal for next to nothing and those restaurant workers are getting peanuts.In Dubais restaurants you pay top dollar for a meal yet the workers are so low paid.Shop workers,shop managers etc etc need a proper wage to give them any chance of being able to afford these rents.
Unless Dubai can sustain a very large amount of people on a very good wage,then we may get to a point where we have countless empty properties.


----------



## worried1

*Hot4dubai*



hot4dubai said:


> ^^ r u sure...I went to the thread and that does not seem to be case. Have you heard an announcement or r u assuming this to be case?


Well as we all know, such things never get anounced. But phone calls to the sales office are of no help and very evasive. Maybe the Sheikh lost a lot of money owning Citibank shares
:bash:


----------



## Wannaberich

CNN-Gulf dream in doubt?
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/vide...11/30/lakhani.dubai.mood.cnn?iref=videosearch


----------



## hot4dubai

worried1 said:


> Well as we all know, such things never get anounced. But phone calls to the sales office are of no help and very evasive. Maybe the Sheikh lost a lot of money owning Citibank shares
> :bash:


^^yes they do get announced....as if anyone could miss all the fuss created by Nakheel's announcement about delaying some projects. Maybe Laguna tower has problems...but maybe not...all I am saying is wait for facts and make decisions based on that.


----------



## skdubai

*Nakheel mulls Dh55b IPO*

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Investment/10264124.html

Who the hell is going to subscribe to this IPO at this time?? They seem to be getting a bit desperate..


----------



## docc

High Times said:


> Doc, Your stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doc, on a serious note. Your right to say that Dubai is no different from the rest of the world in terms of a shrinking economy and recession. This begs the question, if Dubai is no different from the rest of the world then why does it behave in such a different way.
> 
> What I mean is that the global economy is clearly contracting and is likely to do so for at least another 12 months. This means fewer businesses, fewer jobs, less wealth.
> 
> For Dubai to continue with it's bullish construction program, it is simply creating massive oversupply further down the line.
> 
> People leaving Dubai are fairly well paid financial services and real estate agents. People coming to Dubai are low paid workers in construction and service industries. I have yet to see figures that accurately reflect the demographic of immigrants coming to Dubai. I only hear huge numbers are coming. This is part of the massive propaganda machine that is being driven by Government, Developers, Real Estate agents etc.
> 
> Many developed economies have halted construction whilst their economy shrinks, so that sensible judgements can be made on what happens next. The UK as an example has basically suspended most housing construction even though there is a predicted shortfall of 1 million housing units over the next 10 years.
> 
> You know the story in the US. I am watching Florida for buying opportunities at the moment and the place looks like a half complete building site with companies folding over the last year leaving half built sites. What a mess !!
> 
> I don’t want this to happen in Dubai. I’m sure you don’t either.


Gee, thanks :lol:

Dubai behaves in a different way because what it has is MASSIVE Govt backing. Dubai and Abu Dhabi are effectively 2 larger companies; the term Dubai Inc. is extremely apt as a lot of things are regulated which ofcourse explains why there is no transparency.

As i had mentioned in another thread; a total of 1032 business licenses were issued in October and 1000+ licenses in September. Opportunities are there and hence people continue to move here. Again, Dubai is the financial hub of an entire continent and the lay off's are happening because of a poor economic climate. Things are bound to pick up in say 2-3 years and once again Dubai will start booming. These 2-3 years will give them ample time to prepare for heavy influx of people once the economic scenario improves. I honestly don't think that the oversupply is going to be that high considering that things are going to get better and demand will return.

Dubai's greatest source of income is from trade and tourism; sure the latter might be hit, but trade continues to flourish which explains why businesses continue to set up here. Developed economies have halted construction because they haven't seen the kind of population and economic growth that the UAE has seen. In all honesty, we can't even compare the rest of the world with the UAE simply because their strategies are different. They are trying to establish in 15 years what others have taken 50 years to achieve.

Let's not talk about the US; their system is way too screwed to be worth discussing. I am confident that the same thing won't happen in Dubai, simply because THINGS WILL IMPROVE and SOON.

Well, atleast that's my take on it and i don't expect anyone to agree with me on it. Only time will tell.


----------



## kano

^^^ i hope you are right Doc .


----------



## worried1

*Hot4dubai see this below pasted by JBA on JLT thread*



hot4dubai said:


> ^^yes they do get announced....as if anyone could miss all the fuss created by Nakheel's announcement about delaying some projects. Maybe Laguna tower has problems...but maybe not...all I am saying is wait for facts and make decisions based on that.



There seems to be a few 'on hold' projects on JLT. 

Does anybody have any idea what the DMCC plan is when a tower can not be completed by a developer?

Do they eventually take the project over?

Unlike the Marina, JLT has to have EVERY tower complete for the project to work. 

I think Sheikh Mohammad has to ensure every tower under construction gets completed by the master developer or Dubai is going to look unfinished for many years to come!


----------



## Bimcnorth

skdubai said:


> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Investment/10264124.html
> 
> Who the hell is going to subscribe to this IPO at this time?? They seem to be getting a bit desperate..


A couple of companies we never have heard about before, registred in Abu Dhabi and with no transparency...But no there´s no bailout :lol:


----------



## skdubai

^^ lol.....


----------



## Mistermark

I suppose what worries me is this: Dubai IS different to pretty much the whole rest of the world in one key aspect: most of its current populace is not only from elsewhere but, because the population growth is so recent, has put down little in the way of roots. 

Throw in the fact that there's no social security net and people on work permits who lose their jobs have to get out within a month and you have a scenario in which the net influx of well-paid workers could reverse quite quickly, and dramatically.


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> As i had mentioned in another thread; a total of 1032 business licenses were issued in October and 1000+ licenses in September. Opportunities are there and hence people continue to move here.
> .


It would be really interesting to know how quickly the newly available office space at Silicon Oasis,JLT and any other parts of Dubai are filling up.
We always read how office capacity in Dubai is running at something like 98%.Therefore these new office buildings shouls be filling up straightaway.Right?


----------



## Naz UK

Take a look at the take up rate of the newly built Dubai Airport Free Zone office space and you'll soon realise that the shit has really hit the fan in Dubai... cancellation upon cancellation, me included.


----------



## Bimcnorth

Mistermark said:


> I suppose what worries me is this: Dubai IS different to pretty much the whole rest of the world in one key aspect: most of its current populace is not only from elsewhere but, because the population growth is so recent, has put down little in the way of roots.
> 
> Throw in the fact that there's no social security net and people on work permits who lose their jobs have to get out within a month and you have a scenario in which the net influx of well-paid workers could reverse quite quickly, and dramatically.


It´s a rather common situation around the Gulf actually, look at Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and yes the UAE of course.

As for the fact that unemployed leaves while people with jobs are staying I don´t really understand how that would be a bad thing for the economy?


----------



## Monument

Thorneyvilla1 said:


> Which continent is that again genius? You can't surely mean Asia, unless Dubai has suddenly leapt above Hong Kong and Singapore?


And Shanghai, Mumbai or Kuala Lumpur. 

Dubai's market cap is tiny by comparison to most Asian financial, or even regional, centres. 

At most it is the financial centre of the Middle East but it will have to try harder (and is trying harder) to consolidate even that position (and there is a lot of competition out there in the Middle East).


----------



## docc

Thorneyvilla1 said:


> Which continent is that again genius? You can't surely mean Asia, unless Dubai has suddenly leapt above Hong Kong and Singapore?


No need to be crass.

I was referring to Middle-East and Africa together.

Also, i'll try to look up the article, but many studies suggested that Dubai was well on it's way to overtake Mumbai and Singapore thanks to it's economic model and open policies.


----------



## Wannaberich

234 just noticed your from Brighton?Im in sunny worthing.Do u live in Dubai now or brighton?


----------



## mjg013

SPAM


----------



## Adel

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ So why are they advertising these distress sales. Could they be trying to talk down the market?


Yes they want to talk down the market and scare people into selling. It's the same thing here in Bahrain, and when I call they have all sorts of excuses.


----------



## Wannaberich

Adel said:


> Yes they want to talk down the market and scare people into selling. It's the same thing here in Bahrain, and when I call they have all sorts of excuses.


Partnet went into a large well known real estate company yesterday.
She was told to forget published prices.Buyers are making offers far less.
However,this company dont want to print these low prices to avoid bringing the market down.


----------



## Arno Salzl

Have you seen Imran Khan lately?

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/540290-ceo-sought-in-38mn-bounced-cheques-probe hno:


----------



## jixline

at the moment, no general index of pricing can be taken from the market. prices are varying depending on the situation of the sellers.

I think prices still have to go down, in order to see some real good deals (for ex. a sale with 200psf premium down from 400 is not a distress sale IMO )


----------



## Garden city

...


----------



## docc

Al Barakah - one of the companies who i believe were offering the buy back schemes in Jumeirah Village. ALWAYS stay away from these buy back schemes!

If things seem too good to be true, they probably are! Tried and tested cliche!


----------



## mrobbie

Have a look on the BBC news site, and suddenly Dubai doesn't seem as bad as what you hear…

*Repossessions 'to reach 75,000' *
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7762627.stm

*House prices still falling fast *
UK house prices fell another 2.6% in November - to record a 14.9% annual fall - according to figures from the Halifax. 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7764272.stm

*Nomura shedding 1,000 London jobs *
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7764107.stm

*Credit Suisse cuts 650 jobs in UK *
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7759888.stm

*HSBC confirms 500 UK jobs to go*
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7759026.stm


…and none of these were from searching - 1st page of UK news and business.


----------



## Garden city

docc said:


> No need to be crass.
> 
> I was referring to Middle-East and Africa together.
> 
> Also, i'll try to look up the article, but *many studies suggested* that Dubai was well on it's way to overtake Mumbai and Singapore thanks to it's economic model and open policies.


Hmm, being on its way and being the actual financial capital has a huge sea of difference. I know for certain that with the size of banking sector here in Dubai it is definitely behind Bahrain. I am not trying to be negative as you have categorized many people in this forum. I intend to have clear discussion based on facts. There is no need to pump up the "Feel Good" factor when all economies are struggling.

The reason i do not believe in most of the *hyper* positive arguments thrown here is that i work in one of the biggest real estate companies and have a fair idea about what exactly is going on in the market.

Cheers


----------



## AdamHun

docc said:


> Al Barakah - one of the companies who i believe were offering the buy back schemes in Jumeirah Village. ALWAYS stay away from these buy back schemes!
> 
> If things seem too good to be true, they probably are! Tried and tested cliche!


I think it was Ajman and Dubailand...
but agree, stay away from those buyback stories


----------



## docc

AdamHun said:


> I think it was Ajman and Dubailand...
> but agree, stay away from those buyback stories


I remember getting an offer from these guys for an unnamed project in JV; hence the reference.

Offer was, get 60% + original investment in 6 months. Contract and post-dated cheques would be provided on the day of signing.


----------



## Arno Salzl

docc said:


> I remember getting an offer from these guys for an unnamed project in JV; hence the reference.
> 
> Offer was, get 60% + original investment in 6 months. Contract and post-dated cheques would be provided on the day of signing.


I'm asking myself: how dumb are the investors to believe such stories. 
Not only the credit crunch, the Dubai government and the developpers are responsible for the (relative) mess we have now, but also a lot of buyers, ready to buy anything for a quick buck. It remembers me the DFM (in the Trade Center) in 2004/2005. hno:


----------



## docc

Well, when spirits are high and the whole market is hyped and literally everyone is making money, people tend to take some bad decisions. It's important to research into your investments so as to avoid future disappointment.

Oh well, there aren't going to be such scenario's anymore thanks to tighter market regulation.

By the way, buy backs are ILLEGAL.


----------



## TDemirel

Arno Salzl said:


> Have you seen Imran Khan lately?
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/540290-ceo-sought-in-38mn-bounced-cheques-probe hno:


I bought my wonderfull studio in Dubai Lagoon from this guy in his 3D-Venture Days.
It looks like in two and half year he became CEO of another company and he even managed to have bouncing cheques of 4 mio USD.

Dubai Lagoon is still in the ground.:nuts:


----------



## sam69

*Dubai Speculators Quit as Lending Drought Bursts Desert Bubble * Bloomberg 03/12/08

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a2jrSPqYhVzY&refer=home


----------



## Imre

seems good deal

Location : The Palm, Jebel Ali 
Property Type : Villa 
Bedroom : 3 Bedrooms 
Approx size : 3,870 sq. ft. 
Approx prize : AED 2,500,000.00 

Location : The Palm, Jebel Ali 
Property Type : Villa 
Bedroom : 3 Bedrooms 
Approx size : 3,872 sq. ft. 
Approx prize : AED 2,700,000.00


----------



## Imre

Arno Salzl said:


> Have you seen Imran Khan lately?
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/540290-ceo-sought-in-38mn-bounced-cheques-probe hno:


"The officer told The National that police had visited Mr Khan’s house and found it closed and empty. He said police believed Mr Khan was in Dubai, but they had been unable to locate him."

I doubt that he is still in UAE.


----------



## docc

Imre said:


> seems good deal
> 
> Location : The Palm, Jebel Ali
> Property Type : Villa
> Bedroom : 3 Bedrooms
> Approx size : 3,870 sq. ft.
> Approx prize : AED 2,500,000.00
> 
> Location : The Palm, Jebel Ali
> Property Type : Villa
> Bedroom : 3 Bedrooms
> Approx size : 3,872 sq. ft.
> Approx prize : AED 2,700,000.00


Or seems TOO good to be true? 

Can you please check if it's a fantasy deal or a real one? Thanks.


----------



## nisha

docc said:


> Dubai's greatest source of income is from trade and tourism; sure the latter might be hit, *but trade continues to flourish which explains why businesses continue *to set up here.


Trade continues to flourish? Could you show me where you got this information from? As in the financial circles we are seeing quite the opposite...


----------



## nisha

sam69 said:


> *Dubai Speculators Quit as Lending Drought Bursts Desert Bubble * Bloomberg 03/12/08
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a2jrSPqYhVzY&refer=home


That is a good article; but I'd say still not representative of the real mess we have on our hands....


----------



## docc

nisha said:


> Trade continues to flourish? Could you show me where you got this information from? As in the financial circles we are seeing quite the opposite...


Of the business licenses that were issued in September and October, more than 30% were for trade. I should really start bookmarking these articles as people keep asking me to cite sources.

Will definitely post the link once i find it.

I'd also be interested in knowing what the real mess on our hands is. Thanks.


----------



## High Times

docc said:


> I'd also be interested in knowing what the real mess on our hands is. Thanks.


:lol::hilarious:lol:


----------



## Imre

docc said:


> Or seems TOO good to be true?
> 
> Can you please check if it's a fantasy deal or a real one? Thanks.


will check soon, are you in Dubai>?


----------



## kano

^^^ The price seems good !....but how long would we wait for them to be completed?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Rescue plan for Dubai*

A new report focusing on the Dubai property market has outlined a rescue plan for the emirate's faltering property market...

RichVille's Dubai Real Estate Market Report for the fourth quarter of 2008 has revealed that although the economic slowdown may reduce demand for property in the region, the lack of finance available for developers could also result in the delay or cancellation of construction projects, causing demand to outstrip supply in the medium term.

However, Founder of RichVille and Chairman of member firm Tharaa Holding Tariq Ramadan noted that one of the only ways for the area's property market to be stabilised is for property developers to delay asking for payments from buyers.

"It is very interesting to see that while the authorities around the world are taking all possible measures to revive their real estate markets, authorities in Dubai seem to be doing nothing to support the real estate sector," he added.


----------



## Imre

kano said:


> ^^^ The price seems good !....but how long would we wait for them to be completed?


5-10 years, maybe


----------



## mackie1964

If I was sure that it is going to get built, I would buy one for sure. I wish I had a crystal ball :bash:


----------



## Imre

I will buy if I get the original price, that is no risky.


----------



## kano

^^^What was the original price Imre?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

mackie, I think you should buy one, if it is real. 646 psf :nuts:

You can have it as your retirement home instead of dubai promenade beach tower. I would buy if I had the cash.


----------



## Imre

kano said:


> ^^^What was the original price Imre?


I checked.

OP is 2 million 
SP 2.55 m 

payment plan:

50% paid
20% Aug 2009
20% March 2010
10% on completion


----------



## docc

High Times said:


> :lol::hilarious:lol:


I meant Nisha's interpretation smartass.


----------



## docc

Imre said:


> will check soon, are you in Dubai>?


Thanks.

And, yea, i am


----------



## kano

^^^ I think the uncertainty of when it will complete puts me off at the moment. and paying 50% and another 40% within one year makes me wonder if it is worth it. at the moment....


----------



## Imre

everything is cheap in the PJA , people worried about the cancelation and will get back just the OP.


----------



## kano

^^^i think they will complete this ...its a matter of pride and in dubai's interest that this palm completes but how long it will take is anyones guess.


----------



## worried1

*Perhaps Imre knows the Turkish gentleman*



docc said:


> Of the business licenses that were issued in September and October, more than 30% were for trade. I should really start bookmarking these articles as people keep asking me to cite sources.
> 
> Will definitely post the link once i find it.
> 
> I'd also be interested in knowing what the real mess on our hands is. Thanks.


Maybe Imre knows the Turkish gentleman with 60 properties mentioned in the bloomberg article.


----------



## googly

Is it true that UAE has stopped issuing residency visa to all nationalities?


----------



## worried1

*hot4dubai location is important also*



hot4dubai said:


> But, I would rather be in a place where there are strict laws which can be applied.
> 
> 2 cents from me


^^Like America where everyone, including lawmakers, looked the other way and let Wall Street bring literally the world to it's Knees...:nuts:[/QUOTE]

In America if you had avoided the speculative locations and owned property in areas close to the capital, the drop would not be that severe. Similarly, the drop in London or Delhi (not Gurgaon) has not been that bad. Inthese places you can still take the developer to court for not meeting his obligations. I am afraid properties that were due for delivery in Dubai in 2007 are still holes in the ground. So diversification is important.

I dont think America/Wall street has the power to bring the world to its knees. This property downturn will soon be over which includes Dubai, it is just a matter of holding thru it.


----------



## skdubai

googly said:


> Is it true that UAE has stopped issuing residency visa to all nationalities?




???? where the hell do people come up with these things???


----------



## Imre

googly said:


> Is it true that UAE has stopped issuing residency visa to all nationalities?


rubbish , otherwise everybody should leave the country

I think just for property owners.They dont want to give a res. visa if you just have a property.

If you have job or business here , residence visa is easy if your age is less than 60 

I have heard they will not give a residence visa 60+ , is it true?


----------



## hot4dubai

worried1 said:


> ^^Like America where everyone, including lawmakers, looked the other way and let Wall Street bring literally the world to it's Knees...:nuts:


In America if you had avoided the speculative locations and owned property in areas close to the capital, the drop would not be that severe. Similarly, the drop in London or Delhi (not Gurgaon) has not been that bad. Inthese places you can still take the developer to court for not meeting his obligations. I am afraid properties that were due for delivery in Dubai in 2007 are still holes in the ground. So diversification is important.

I dont think America/Wall street has the power to bring the world to its knees. This property downturn will soon be over which includes Dubai, it is just a matter of holding thru it.[/QUOTE]

^^I was referring to the financial markets/credit crunch which as we all know has had a direct impact on the property market. Had their been "strict laws" and been properly regulated in USA,especially, then the world would not be in such a financial mess it finds itself in now....

I was born in the states by the way and will always love it but you have to be a man and just admit when your own country screwed up...


----------



## googly

Imre said:


> rubbish , otherwise everybody should leave the country
> 
> I think just for property owners.They dont want to give a res. visa if you just have a property.


Sorry, but my question should have been, "Is it true that UAE has stopped issuing PROPERTY-BASED residency visa to all nationalities?"

Can you comment on this question? Thanks.


----------



## skdubai

Imre said:


> rubbish , otherwise everybody should leave the country
> 
> I think just for property owners.They dont want to give a res. visa if you just have a property.
> 
> If you have job or business here , residence visa is easy if your age is less than 60
> 
> I have heard they will not give a residence visa 60+ , is it true?


Well my dad is above 60, but his company still pays some "fee" to the govt. every year to renew his work permit. They can keep doing this for as long as needed!


----------



## AltinD

^^ There are exemptions for certain professions or positions


----------



## Bimcnorth

googly said:


> Sorry, but my question should have been, "Is it true that UAE has stopped issuing PROPERTY-BASED residency visa to all nationalities?"
> 
> Can you comment on this question? Thanks.



You still become eligible to apply for a residence visa upon the purchase of a freehold property I think. Please note that the usual immigration laws apply to all residency applications; the purchase of a property does not guarantee a residence visa like it used to do. You would get a Visit visa though I guess.

There is an article explaining the situation..

http://www.gulfnews.com/FreeholdWeekly/UAECommercial/10257416.html


----------



## Wannaberich

hot4dubai said:


> I was born in the states by the way and will always love it but you have to be a man and just admit when your own country screwed up...


And screwed up the rest of the world too.


----------



## Bimcnorth

Just for the sake of comparison I´ll put this list here...


----------



## kano

Bimcnorth said:


> You still become eligible to apply for a residence visa upon the purchase of a freehold property I think. Please note that the usual immigration laws apply to all residency applications; the purchase of a property does not guarantee a residence visa like it used to do. You would get a Visit visa though I guess.
> 
> There is an article explaining the situation..
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/FreeholdWeekly/UAECommercial/10257416.html


 I think they really need to consider the visa position otherwise a lot of investors will look at other places to invest. More now than ever before because of the present state of affairs.


----------



## baba toto

porshe911 said:


> baba toto.. i bought property in lans 3 (4 studios) do you think it s good time
> to selling ?..


I would test the waters with a target price, now or sometime next year......or wait to sell on completion. New launch prices have jumped from about AED 675/sq ft two years ago to about 1200/sq ft now.......But are people are actually buying at the new prices at the moment?? Note if the buyer is taking a loan, banks lend on the original price excluding the premium.....


----------



## antlong

*Australian Prestige Market by comparison*



Bimcnorth said:


> Just for the sake of comparison I´ll put this list here...



Current research on the Australian Prestige Residential Market Nov 08 - for those interested by comparison:

http://resources.knightfrank.com/GetResearchResource.ashx?id=11415

Also Sydney Residential Market:
http://resources.knightfrank.com/GetResearchResource.ashx?id=11325


----------



## IISinbadII

Who knows what will happen in 5-10 years. Palm Jabl Ali is a promise for the future. I would stay away from everything off-plan, even by the big 3 developers. If you want to buy, get something completed and rent it out, IMO. But you must do your homework, calculate rental yields and factor in a further drop is price and rents. Tenants are choosy and demanding these days. Make sure the unit you are buying is the best (great location, good view, high floor, larger size, near metro station, etc).


----------



## worried1

*OK point taken*



hot4dubai said:


> In America if you had avoided the speculative locations and owned property in areas close to the capital, the drop would not be that severe. Similarly, the drop in London or Delhi (not Gurgaon) has not been that bad. Inthese places you can still take the developer to court for not meeting his obligations. I am afraid properties that were due for delivery in Dubai in 2007 are still holes in the ground. So diversification is important.
> 
> I dont think America/Wall street has the power to bring the world to its knees. This property downturn will soon be over which includes Dubai, it is just a matter of holding thru it.


^^I was referring to the financial markets/credit crunch which as we all know has had a direct impact on the property market. Had their been "strict laws" and been properly regulated in USA,especially, then the world would not be in such a financial mess it finds itself in now....

I was born in the states by the way and will always love it but you have to be a man and just admit when your own country screwed up...[/QUOTE]

OK point taken


----------



## antlong

IISinbadII said:


> Who knows what will happen in 5-10 years. Palm Jabl Ali is a promise for the future. I would stay away from everything off-plan, even by the big 3 developers. If you want to buy, get something completed and rent it out, IMO. But you must do your homework, calculate rental yields and factor in a further drop is price and rents. Tenants are choosy and demanding these days. Make sure the unit you are buying is the best (great location, good view, high floor, larger size, near metro station, etc).


For commercial property in Business Bay
What do you make of these calculations:
Current Rent 130 AED Sq. Ft ???
Factor 20% drop
Future Rent 104 AED Sq. Ft.

8% yield

Buy Price 1300 AED Sq. Ft.


----------



## Arno Salzl

Thanks God, some news from Imran Khan:
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081204/BUSINESS/139594825/0/SPORTCOLUMNISTS


----------



## Monument

Short term: 1-3 years things are going to be very tough in Dubai. 

Long term (3 years plus) things are only going to get better in Dubai - if you have the free cash - you should be waiting until we all get really pessimistic and then buy (which is probably some time over the next 12 months). And Buy both property and equities.

Dubai always surprises and will do again.


----------



## docc

^^ :cheers:


----------



## AITU

A well presented article here which also makes sense:

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081205/OPINION/617509879/1080


----------



## docc

Very nice and well informed article. Pretty much everything that he had said is already underway in one way or the other.


----------



## glover

RERA should issue a directive to force all developers to link payments to construction progress. this is already the case with the release of funds from the escrow accounts. RERA needs to expand it to cover investor paymenst also. It will be in line with international practice, and will give a boast to investor confidenace and end many problems and disputes betwee developers and investors.


----------



## docc

^^ Also being instated.


----------



## IISinbadII

antlong said:


> For commercial property in Business Bay
> What do you make of these calculations:
> Current Rent 130 AED Sq. Ft ???
> Factor 20% drop
> Future Rent 104 AED Sq. Ft.
> 
> 8% yield
> 
> Buy Price 1300 AED Sq. Ft.


Business Bay is huge and almost all off-plan. I prefer JLT completed office space i.e. if you get get it at a discount.


----------



## nri-hotels

nri-hotels said:


> Are you kidding? Show me one news item saying that Dubai properties are a good buy now, or even in six months or one year. The crash has already started and unless the developers refuse to complete their unfinished projects, too much supply will enter next year and prices and rents will drop drastically. With rich expats losing their jobs and going back to their countries, all who is left are low-middle income earners. The real horror will be seen sometime 2nd quarter next year.
> 
> Another wild feeling i got is that OPEC is likely to break up, because its poorer members who need cash infusion during this recession will likely pump and dump their production to willing Indians and Chinese who need to fuel their internal demands. *We can likely see mid $30s per barrel by December.* Its no surprise that Ahmadinejad stated $5/barrel is workable for Iran. Looks like he is trying to bring OPEC to its knees.


looks possible huh ?

HMMM.. Brent Crude is already $39


----------



## Wannaberich

One of the reasons real estate activity in Dubai is so low at the moment,is because there just aren't that many completed properties?
Wasn't a problem before when times were good and people were buying off-plan.
Now that most people will only buy completed,or near completion properties,this makes a big difference.
Whatever the ratio is of completed properties per agent in Dubai,it's going to be way way lower than most other cities.I would imagine most agents in Dubai have seen their wages/commision drop drammatically as all of a sudden maybe 60/70% of their
stock is unsellable.
In 15 years this won't be such a problem should another recession hit everyone.

Also,I dont think the term off-plan should be used for propeties that are at least 70/80% complete.These projects should be termed as 'Near Completion'.
Websites listing properties should also indicate at what stage the building is in percentage terms as opposed to completion dates which are never met.


----------



## docc

nri-hotels said:


> looks possible huh ?


Nope.


----------



## Mistermark

Wannaberich said:


> One of the reasons real estate activity in Dubai is so low at the moment,is because there just aren't that many completed properties?
> Wasn't a problem before when times were good and people were buying off-plan.
> Now that most people will only buy completed,or near completion properties,this makes a big difference.
> Whatever the ratio is of completed properties per agent in Dubai,it's going to be way way lower than most other cities.I would imagine most agents in Dubai have seen their wages/commision drop drammatically as all of a sudden maybe 60/70% of their
> stock is unsellable.
> In 15 years this won't be such a problem should another recession hit everyone.
> 
> Also,I dont think the term off-plan should be used for propeties that are at least 70/80% complete.These projects should be termed as 'Near Completion'.
> Websites listing properties should also indicate at what stage the building is in percentage terms as opposed to completion dates which are never met.


It seems to me there are now three different property markets in Dubai:

Off-plan - meaning projects released but not yet fully sold and under construction
Under construction - fully sold, work underway
Completed - fully finished units ready for owner occupation or rental

Off-plan is dead in the current market; little or no point releasing anything new until liquidity, confidence and hence demand return.

Under construction needs to be carefully managed: buyers need more guarantees from the Government that it will stand behind developers who get into financial difficulties, and developers need to do more to help people unable to make staged payments due to changes in their circumstances or because they never intended to have to make those payments, as they originally planned to flip their units quickly

Most of the advertised distressed prices for this final category have turned out mysteriously to have 'already sold'; I suspect most are invented by agents wanting to get the phones ringing so they can switch people to more expensive completed units or, more often, under construction. How these fare in the next 12 months depends on how many ex-pats board Emirates flights home having lost their jobs, compared with the number arriving on the same aircraft, disaffected with the economies of their home countries.

Currently there's not much evidence that there are too few completed units on the resale market; this may be because people who own them but live outside of Dubai can, unless they're Americans, repatriate their money at very attractive rates right now, lading to some profit-taking; also, there may be people selling because of difficult economic conditions in their home countries or businesses; there's also reduced demand because anyone looking to buy who holds cash in most other currencies would have to convert cash at a poor rate and high LTV mortgages have evaporated.

That said, the demise of the off-plan market makes the current pool of completed units, plus under-construction ones we can be sure will be completed, potentially very smart medium-term investments, as it's likely that the supply will increase less than anticipated over the next few years.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> Most of the advertised distressed prices for this final category have turned out mysteriously to have 'already sold'; I suspect most are invented by agents wanting to get the phones ringing so they can switch people to more expensive completed units


My partner was told by an agent for one of the large real estate companies to forget published prices.Buyers are making offers way lower.This company dont want to publish these lower prices as they dont want to contribute to driving prices lower.
Therefore,although we think some agents are publishing bogus prices,maybe we shouldnt kid ourselves that the current 'market rate' is what the properties will sell for.Its a buyers market after all.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> Currently there's not much evidence that there are too few completed units on the resale market; this may be because people who own them but live outside of Dubai can, unless they're Americans, repatriate their money at very attractive rates right now, lading to some profit-taking; also, there may be the supply will increase less than anticipated over the next few years.


You may think there are alot of completed properties on the market right now,
but in relation to how many per agent in Dubai,this number is probably way lower than other cities.
That means each agent has less sellable stock to play with.They get desperate for a sale and publish bogus prices.Also,with sellers they try to get you to lower your asking price right down so they can earn their first commison in a long time.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Mistermark

Wannaberich, don't your two most recent posts contradict each other/ On the one hand you're saying that deals are being done way below advertised prices (which I don't believe - at any rate, not below the distressed prices that are now being promoted) and agents aren't publishing these prices because they don't want to drive the market down, and on the other you're saying agents are advertising bogus (low) prices for completed stock to get potential buyers to phone them, so they can then upsell them to something else (which is what I was saying at the outset).


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> Wannaberich, don't your two most recent posts contradict each other/ On the one hand you're saying that deals are being done way below advertised prices (which I don't believe - at any rate, not below the distressed prices that are now being promoted) and agents aren't publishing these prices because they don't want to drive the market down, and on the other you're saying agents are advertising bogus (low) prices for completed stock to get potential buyers to phone them, so they can then upsell them to something else (which is what I was saying at the outset).


I didnt say deals are being done way below advertised prices,I said an agent for a large company said buyers are making offers way below asking prices.Whether or not sellers are excepting these I have no idea.
Does anyone?It is a buyers market so I find it hard to believe 
some people arent letting their units go cheap.

As for agents advertising bogus prices,I was repeating what some of the guys on here have written.


----------



## Freestyler

Wannaberich said:


> Also,I dont think the term off-plan should be used for propeties that are at least 70/80% complete.These projects should be termed as 'Near Completion'.
> Websites listing properties should also indicate at what stage the building is in percentage terms as opposed to completion dates which are never met.


Good idea, I'll use that on my site


----------



## lovedubai

Some buyers are certainly trying their luck. I was offered 1.4 million for a one bed apartment in Infinity.


----------



## docc

^^ If you said yes, they wouldn't have paid up. They are just testing waters


----------



## Wannaberich

Colliers International
House Price Index

http://www.dubaichronicle.com/wp-co...s-international-q3-2008-house-price-index.pdf

No choice but to offer options to investors
http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10265215.html


----------



## houshang

^^ based on Colliers` report prices are now at the same level as they were 12 months ago when everybody seemed to be Ok with it. With so many things which has happened both in Dubai and elswhere in 2008 this does not seem to be a disaster.

Every decision has been made this year has put a certain group of buyers off the market.Like, if no visa for 60+ is true then anybody above 60 will be off and this may not end here, then no visa for 6+ ( investors over 6 would be too clever for this market):hammer::hammer:


----------



## agod

As i am 59 years old, these comments about 60 year olds frighten me, because i would like to go and live in Dubai, had my development not been 2 years late, i would already be tucked up in my new home, instead of stuck in london and suffering like eveyone else. 

Do me a favour and quote a source please, before all this rumour mungering gets out of hand, better still pick up the phone, and speak to the UAE embassy visa clerk, and ask them, you will then be told what i was told, which i have posted on this thread before, while you are speaking to him, ask them about 60 Year olds, and put my mind at rest.

Thanks ALan


----------



## Imre

What I said the 60 y , if you have a company and want a residence visa from Ajman Free Zone , age limit is 60y. Strange.When I am in 60 I should leave the country or just go to Oman every 2-3 months?
Good news, I have still 20 years left


----------



## Richard Head

first timer said:


> The buy one get one free will soon be on the shelves of the developers
> 
> :tiasd:


I seem to recall you have said that before, on several occasions, with the same lack of information, data, research, or any other kind of rational thought that brought you to this fascinating conclusion. Got anything original to add?

No didn't think so. Thanks once again for your enlightening contribution. We bow to your perceptive powers and incredible ability to forecast the market. Now please go away and enlighten somebody else.


----------



## Morrismarina

***


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ :lol: Morrismarina is still alive :banana:


----------



## AltinD

But what's with the (3) snow crystals he posted? Has he been skiing all this time? :dunno:


----------



## AltinD

^^ So does that mean he has been snow-boarding instead? :dunno:


----------



## Imre

docc said:


> hno:
> 
> I feel sorry for those who lost their jobs. Worst part is that it's very hard to find new jobs in the real estate sector right now...


many sales gone, companies can save lot of money and if they need sales again , it takes 5 min to find it...


----------



## Wannaberich

Imres a star.His photos enable people from not just Dubai,but all over the world to see the progress of all the buildings.
His photos are truly invaluable.
Thanks again Imre.


----------



## mackie1964

^^He is (and his photos of Dubai) famous in China, I know that for a fact (at least one nice part of China). :lol:


----------



## AltinD

^^ I wanna hear more about that.


----------



## makerian

Richard Head said:


> Been out of town for a bit. Anyone heard anything official yet on what they are doing with the rent cap or other associated legislation for 2009, understand the current 5% is valid only until end of this year?


Yes and for the past couple of years the new rent cap has been announced towards the end of December. I'm keenly awaiting any news on that.


----------



## kano

^^^ i doubt there would be any change...to the 5%. I wonder if they ever consider increases to service charges....like increase from 9% to 21% for JBR for example???


----------



## montranieri

JBR service charge will be 21.5 AED this year


----------



## kano

^^^ i meant to say 9aed to 21.5 aed...making it nearly 125% increase....which i think even the palm apartments owners dont pay..i think it's 16 aed ..correct me if i am wrong..


----------



## worried1

*Imre Ambassdor of Dubai*



Wannaberich said:


> Imres a star.His photos enable people from not just Dubai,but all over the world to see the progress of all the buildings.
> His photos are truly invaluable.
> Thanks again Imre.



That is why I have regularly posted that Imre should be appointed ambassodor of Dubai:cheers:


----------



## Arno Salzl

As we compare with other cities, here the opinion of Real Estate specialists in Hong Kong to the question "is this the right time to buy a property?" (SCMP, Sunday December 5). Situations are different here and there, but the HK people have a lot of experience.

Leland Sun, founder and managing director of Pan Asian Mortgage 
Buyers should hold off until next year, as property prices lag stock prices by six to 12 months. This is because Hong Kong is just beginning to readjust its property prices relative to the mainland (especially Shenzhen ) and the rest of the world. 
Also, given the Hong Kong dollar's peg and weakening currencies, property prices will fall even faster and with greater volatility. Property prices here will fall back to a level where it will be an attractive buy in not just one but several lifetimes. 
So rent is the way to go for now. In a nutshell, property will be an even better buy than stocks going forward, but it is still too early to step in. 
Buyers should wait until the second half of 2009, or even 2010. The housing price trend is down and rents, especially for middle and high-end properties, may fall even faster given the expected loss of many expat positions in the financial services industry. Make good use of this opportunity.

Alva To, North Asia head of the consultancy department at DTZ Don't buy. If you own a home, you may even consider selling it now and renting a unit. Taking into account the poor state of the economy, prices will fall another 20 to 30 per cent. 
Some buyers have started entering the market, so home prices will see some support temporarily. 
These people have entered the market as they have not been affected by the declining economy. 
But the worst is yet to come. The full impact will be reflected after the first quarter of 2009. By then, sentiment will turn sour and home prices will fall again. 
Having said that, if you have targeted a particular flat for a long time, if you are totally secure in your job and are financially sound, go for that dream home. 
In a bull market, you will never get a chance to buy a nice flat at a low price. Prices will drop 40 to 50 per cent from the peak in the first quarter of this year before it stabilises in the fourth quarter of next year. 
But the situation could be worse, subject to how the economic crisis unfolds. Rents will also fall, but at a slower pace than prices. This is because as demand for home buying declines, people will shift to rented homes.

Nicholas Brooke, chairman, Professional Property Services Group Given the likelihood of further downward adjustment, home seekers would be prudent to rent and ride out the financial storm. 
However, if they find something that they particularly like and are prepared to see the value fall in the short term but recover in the long run, they might consider buying it. It all depends on their investment horizon. Ideally, the right time to buy should be at or close to the end of the current correction, which in my view is at least 12 months away. 
We are likely to see a total correction in the mass market of between 30 and 40 per cent. 
A correction of at least 15 per cent has already taken place. 

Simon Lo Wing-fai, director of Colliers' research and advisory wing 
Renting is the better option in the near term unless one has a flexible amount of equity and can secure an attractive discount on the current market price. 
The right time to buy should be when banks are more willing to offer financing again and rents start stabilising. I expect rents to fall 20 per cent and the capital value of homes to fall 20-25 per cent in the next 12 months. 
Patrick Chow Moon-kit, research manager, Ricacorp Properties 
It is better to rent a flat now as home prices will continue to fall. But you can start looking for bargains. 
For example, I found one flat in City One Sha Tin that was going for HK$1.5 million and is now down to HK$1.01 million. The right time to buy is when we see the bottom of this downward cycle - probably 2010, or even 2011. I expect both prices and rents to fall another 30 per cent.


----------



## Imre

kano said:


> ^^^ i meant to say 9aed to 21.5 aed...making it nearly 125% increase....which i think even the palm apartments owners dont pay..i think it's 16 aed ..correct me if i am wrong..


this 21.5 aed included the AC charges as well? If not how much do you pay for it?


----------



## montranieri

I do not live in JBR but yesterday I was there in a friend of mine flat. They just left a letter outside all the doors and `i read it.
The total is 21.5 AED including, among other services, also the AC for the common areas.


----------



## maltster

PJ shorelines is about AED 23 psf, excluding AC.


----------



## kano

^^^Thats what i thought..... but i heard that the residents association of the Palm shoreline managed to get Nakheel to reduce their fees aed 16.50


----------



## kano

Imre said:


> this 21.5 aed included the AC charges as well? If not how much do you pay for it?


Just the Common areas.


----------



## cayman1

Anybody knows at what price per sqft is possible to rent an office in BB near the entrance ?


----------



## cayman1

*BB*

Anybody knows at what price per sqft is possible to rent an office in BB near the entrance?


----------



## jungli

*Very urgent question about reselling fully-paid off-plan property in Dubai*

Hi guys,

I'm hoping that you can help me.

I have been offered fully-paid off-plan property as settlement of a debt owed to me by a developer.

I have just been informed that all off-plan sales, even when bought directly from the developer (primary sale), must be registered with the Lands Department or be deemed as invalid in the eyes of the law. Is this true?

I have also been informed by another source that there is no problem selling off-plan property whilst it is part-paid, but that once the property is fully paid, you cannot resell until the property is completed. Is this true? If it is, how does that make any sense?

I have been told to get the developer to issue me a reservation form and contracts, etc, but to tell them not to register with the Lands Department. Wouldn't this mean that the transaction will be void?

I would have thought that, if anything, restrictions would be placed on not-fully-paid off-plan sales, definitely not fully-paid off-plan sales.

If it turns out that there would be no governmental restrictions on selling fully-paid off-plan property prior to completion, would I be allowed to offer the buyer a payment plan of my own or would I have to take it all in one payment?

I know there are a lot of questions here and that you are all enjoying the holidays, but if somebody who knows would answer these for me, you'd save me from getting scammed!


Thanks


----------



## 234sale

Developers are currently registering off-plan sales.

But it does sound strange, also if you want to sell it immediately, why not settle for cash.

Talk to laywer is always best, this is an open forum.


----------



## Mistermark

A 'fully paid off-plan property' is also known as a hole in the ground, until it's built...

If the developer is insufficiently solvent to settle his debt with you, can you be confident he will build the project that should include the property he's offering you as an alternative?


----------



## Tractor

I notice that average *asking* prices for marina apartments have dropped to 1750 aed per sq ft vs 1950 about 2 weeks ago. Big drop!

(info from alineah.com)


----------



## dubaifirst

Tractor said:


> I notice that average *asking* prices for marina apartments have dropped to 1750 aed per sq ft vs 1950 about 2 weeks ago. Big drop!
> 
> (info from alineah.com)


I just looked at alineah, the curve is sharply heading south, could we see it at 1500aed soon?


----------



## makerian

montranieri said:


> JBR service charge will be 21.5 AED this year


I paid 29 psf for my Discovery Gardens Studio (including district cooling charges).


----------



## HappyLarry

dubaifirst said:


> I just looked at alineah, the curve is sharply heading south, could we see it at 1500aed soon?


Interesting to read that Alineah is being regarded as an authority on Dubai property trends. On the other hand, I have visited the website from time to time and it invariably has out of date data. 
Apologies in advance if I am treading on any ones toes. :cheers:


----------



## Wannaberich

Was told by an agent for one of the large real estate companies,1bed Dis Gardens units are going for 900.000aed.Were 1.5m.
Dont know how true this is.


----------



## antlong

kano said:


> ^^^Thats what i thought..... but i heard that the residents association of the Palm shoreline managed to get Nakheel to reduce their fees aed 16.50


Subject: Meeting Between Shoreline Reps and Nakheel


Dear All,
As promised we wanted to be able to get back to you regarding the details of the meeting that was recently held between representatives of the shoreline apartments and representatives of Nakheel. This meeting was facilitated by the Real Estate Regulatory Authority and took place on Wednesday the 19th of November.
Let me apologise for the delay in getting this information out to you but in all fairness all of the representatives involved, we have attended these meetings and others in our own time whilst still endeavoring to hold down full time jobs and families and so this can not always enjoy our full attention. 
As previously discussed we wanted to initially keep discussions to the financial issues that are of concern, and so this was never going to be an exhaustive meeting that covered every possible issue.
For Nakheels part they were represented by David Nicholson who is their General counsel; Graham Burne who is there head of Customer Service and Jim O’Hare who is general manager of owners associations for Nakheel Asset Management
The Clubhouses
The issue with the club houses is that you have been billed for their usage; the bill is purported to be doubling next year; there is no opt out clause for people who don’t want to use the gym; despite contractually promising 1 club house per 4 buildings Nakheel have sold one of the club houses to a third party who may now limit access for all.
In the absence of residents representation at the time of the inception of these club houses Nakheel entered into an agreement with ELR (EMIRATES LEISURE RETAIL) CCM (COMMUNITY CLUBHOUSE MANAGMENT) to manage these facilities. 
The Shoreline representatives want to assume management control of the clubhouses excluding commercial space with a view to ensuring appropriate management of non commercial facility (POOL AND CHANGING ROOMS OUTSIDE, GYM, and BEACH); maintaining exclusivity and improving standards. To allow for this the representatives asked for a copy of the existing agreement between Nakheel and CCM. 
Nakheel have agreed to consider a structure where the ownership and management is passed to the residents; they have agreed to meet within 7 days to explore alternatives and they have agreed to submit proposals around this within 30 days
They however refused to share details of the existing agreement between Nakheel and ELR who are the parent company of CCM. 
Palm District Cooling 
The issue with PDC is that Nakheel instructed PDC to pass on to the homeowners the capital cost of building cooling plant and machinery to operate the cooling systems meaning that the purchase price does not include the costs of initial A/C supply to your apartment and therefore they have sold you an apartment that does not include an operating air conditioning system. It was also noted that despite claims to the contrary (PDC claims 50% less power consumption, reduced maintenance and replacement costs) the cost of Palm District Cooling is considerably higher than the charges being paid for apartments in Dubai who operate with different cooling systems. Despite this, the representatives view point has always been that owners should pay for their own consumption and that PDC or Nakheel should have paid for the original installation. As it stands owners have been told to pay for all of the plant either in one lump sum or via a 30 year payment schedule.
As we have it documented that it was Nakheel who instructed PDC to issue this charge then we contend that the liability is with Nakheel.
Nakheel dismissed this entirely; insisted that they would not ‘subsidize utility costs to homeowners’ and suggested we direct any complaint to PDC.
RERA are looking at this and this point may need to be addressed by independent arbitration. 
Charges based on the 2007 Audit 
The sale and purchase agreement states that the apartments will have an independent audit carried out upon which service charges will be based. It further states that the owners associatons will appoint the auditor.
Nakheel are audited by Ernst and Young. Nakheel assumed responsibility for appointing an independent auditor and appointed Ernst and Young. Furthermore they commissioned a mechanical audit as opposed to a forensic audit. This means that they merely confirmed that if it was stated that 100 Dhs had been spent then a receipt for 100 Dhs existed; they did not examine the spending to ensure that best value had been achieved at each point.
The reason why this is important is that this audit formed the basis of the service charges and so unless this foundation is correct the whole structure is suspect.
We feel E&Y are not independant since they are used by Nakheel on a regular basis and hence the obligations according PSA (Property Sales Agreement) were not met. We have an offer from an Audit company used by owners of the initial six Emaar Marina building which managed very successfully to make the actual cost transparent to owners. Nakheel rejected the idea that this company be used.
Nakheel were asked to allow for a second audit to be conducted which was independent and forensic.
They argued that E&Y are in fact independent, but then confirmed that they would not be used in future, somewhat of a contradiction; they argued that any such audit would be at an individuals owners expense.
RERA have asked to consider this matter and to confirm if such an audit is necessary. 
Time constraints meant that we could not explore other issues but in summary an additional series of meetings have already commenced to review the issues raised and it is hoped that a positive resolution can be achieved.
Regards

On Behalf of the Shoreline Apartment Representatives


----------



## antlong

hot4dubai said:


> In America if you had avoided the speculative locations and owned property in areas close to the capital, the drop would not be that severe. Similarly, the drop in London or Delhi (not Gurgaon) has not been that bad. Inthese places you can still take the developer to court for not meeting his obligations. I am afraid properties that were due for delivery in Dubai in 2007 are still holes in the ground. So diversification is important.
> 
> I dont think America/Wall street has the power to bring the world to its knees. This property downturn will soon be over which includes Dubai, it is just a matter of holding thru it.


^^I was referring to the financial markets/credit crunch which as we all know has had a direct impact on the property market. Had their been "strict laws" and been properly regulated in USA,especially, then the world would not be in such a financial mess it finds itself in now....

I was born in the states by the way and will always love it but you have to be a man and just admit when your own country screwed up...[/QUOTE]

________________

An example of a House in Balham, London (inner London) for comparison
Bought in 2005 for GBP 300k
High of GBP 425k
Currently 20% off high = GBP 340k


I have always considered Dubai the Wild West of the East. Extremely undeveloped from a consumer protection point of view.
Hopefully the downturn will balance the power between developer and consumer. Making it a far more comfortable place to invest.

In Australia ... it is unheard of to fund developers with installment payments for off the plan sales.

Usually (depending on which State) we put down a 10% deposit and pay the 90% on completion.
If the developer goes bust ... insurance provided by the Department of Fair Trading (State government agency) will
efficiently return the deposit to the consumer.

Further a sunset clause allows the consumer to rescind the contract if the development takes longer than a date specified with full return of deposit.

This insurance is paid by the developer and managed by the Department of Fair Trading.

It also happens if you are building a home and the builder goes broke. If the consumer has overpaid a instalment i.e. on slab or frames, there is insurance to assist with the gap between stage to complete and payments made, so another builder can finish the house without too much grief.

Surely this type of approach would give confidence to investors, investing in Dubai. Before the crash Dubai was too hot not to invest in, despite inequity in law, now surely all investors will be looking to the government to implement more consumer protection laws?
(but perhaps not, given most developers are government owned)


----------



## legal eagle

*you'll get there..*



antlong said:


> Subject: Meeting Between Shoreline Reps and Nakheel
> 
> 
> Dear All,
> As promised we wanted to be able to get back to you regarding the details of the meeting that was recently held between representatives of the shoreline apartments and representatives of Nakheel......
> 
> Nakheel were asked to allow for a second audit to be conducted which was independent and forensic.
> 
> They argued that E&Y are in fact independent,....RERA have asked to consider this matter and to confirm if such an audit is necessary..
> Regards
> 
> On Behalf of the Shoreline Apartment Representatives



We bought in the original 6 of Emaar, and had exactly the same teething problems. 

Of course you have to hold your ground, and E & Y will undoubtedly be proved to be far from independent (am certain!) but you will get there.

Audits and paper trails always seem to come as a shock to them intitially 


"*Yani... why you no trus me? yani*"


----------



## Philippa C

antlong said:


> Palm District Cooling
> The issue with PDC is that Nakheel instructed PDC to pass on to the homeowners the capital cost of building cooling plant and machinery to operate the cooling systems meaning that the purchase price does not include the costs of initial A/C supply to your apartment and therefore they have sold you an apartment that does not include an operating air conditioning system.


Told my husband about this. He says it's akin to DEWA asking consumers to pay for the infrastructure required to deliver water and electricity and remove sewage.

Emaar have built a sewage treatement plant in the middle of Arabian Ranches - sewage treatment plants should not be close to residential areas. They are bringing in waste from outside the Ranches at night. I'm pretty sure the increase in service charges is to cover the cost of the sewage treatment plant. 

These developers are being allowed to get away with too much. They've been making money hand over fist and are not giving anything back to the communities.


----------



## legal eagle

*2 extremes*



Wannaberich said:


> Was told by an agent for one of the large real estate companies,1bed Dis Gardens units are going for 900.000aed.Were 1.5m.
> Dont know how true this is.




Never actually saw 1.5 mill acheived in a 1 bed- but they did start selling over 1.1 (in the real market) if they could be financed.

There were expectations that they'd hit 1.4- 1.5 by christmas.

I would say the actual selling range today from peak to trough was/is 1.2mill to 850k.

*30 % -max*


----------



## legal eagle

*Furry*



antlong said:


> ^^I was referring to the financial markets/credit crunch
> 
> In Australia ... it is unheard of to fund developers with installment payments for off the plan sales.
> 
> Usually (depending on which State) we put down a 10% deposit and pay the 90% on completion.
> 
> Further a sunset clause allows the consumer to rescind the contract if the development takes longer than a date specified with full return of deposit.
> 
> This insurance is paid by the developer and managed by the Department of Fair Trading.
> 
> now surely all investors will be looking to the government to implement more consumer protection laws?
> (but perhaps not, given most developers are government owned)


We had paid 80 per cent on some projects with the tower we'd bought in to not even out of the ground.

Many many people got stung like this, but at the time the market was moving so fast investors compromised, accepting shoddy contracts to say the least.


If a developer collects 80% on a 40 story tower sold at 800dhms/ft2

He has collected 6.4 mill dirhams per floor and not spent a dime....

Thats 256 million Dirhams for all 40 floors... *Yes these were not very good contracts!!!*


----------



## AppleMac

Tractor said:


> I notice that average *asking* prices for marina apartments have dropped to 1750 aed per sq ft vs 1950 about 2 weeks ago. Big drop!


Maybe, maybe not.

In the current market where there is very little activity it only takes a couple of extreme transactions to distort the whole market.


----------



## docc

^^ Agreed. Add some extreme distress sales to the equation and you have a completely skewed graph! Actually, you'd end up with a screwed graph....:lol:


----------



## docc

Btw, can someone who owns a villa tell me how much they are paying as annual maintenance charges?


----------



## Imre

legal eagle said:


> Never actually saw 1.5 mill acheived in a 1 bed- but they did start selling over 1.1 (in the real market) if they could be financed.
> 
> There were expectations that they'd hit 1.4- 1.5 by christmas.
> 
> I would say the actual selling range today from peak to trough was/is 1.2mill to 850k.
> 
> *30 % -max*


my friend wanted to buy there (DG) in August for 1.2-1.3 million (even he could pay 1.5 m as well) but the bank was too slow and didnt get the approval because of the markets problem.

He had only 150.000 aed , he wanted 10% down payment and 90% loan .If he started the process only a month before he has an apartment there.

Now he got an offer for 900.000 AED but the same bank asked 50% down payment , so he can not buy.


----------



## docc

Makerian,

Where do you see JLT rents settling at? I feel they might bottom off and stabilize around 150-170/Sft.


----------



## makerian

Wannaberich said:


> What does the 29dhms/ft 2 actually cover you for and what is district cooling?
> This seems way higher than even marina costs.


My understanding is that district cooling supplies cold air to mutiple buildings from a district cooling plant. This eliminates needs for individual air conditioning units for buildings and apts and results in economies of scale (supposedly). 

Someone better informed about this subject please expand on the subject and correct me. 

For a breakdown of DG charges visit the DG forum pages and you'll find plenty of discussion from a couple of months ago. But the conclusion is that its exorbitant. After reading the post about the meeting between palm owner and nakheel, I'm curious if DG owners are also paying for the District Cooling Plant Capital Costs. If so, then I Phillipa is right, these developers are being allowed to get away with wayyyy too much.


----------



## makerian

docc said:


> Makerian,
> 
> Where do you see JLT rents settling at? I feel they might bottom off and stabilize around 150-170/Sft.


I think that 150 (avg) a fair estimate Docc. The problems with JLT imo are:

1)you need a freezone license and they limit the categories of companies that can set up there and also how far their operations extend to Dubai. 

2) the quality of buildings isn't exactly the A-grade office space that was promised by most of the developers. This is one of the main reasons why you can't compare rents in office buildings on the strech between Trade Center R/A and the first interchange, to rents in JLT. The bldgs on Shk Z Rd before first interchange were constructed by the owner for the purpose of renting them and it was in their interest to construct them using finest quality. With JLT developers, their incentives were short term profit and its the end users who suffer. 

Of course what JLT has going for itself is the Metro. Let's wait for a yr and see how that turns out


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What do you see the average Marina residential rents setting at for 1 and 2 beds?


----------



## docc

Makerian,

Agreed. However, i have been told that JLT is a lot more lenient than say Tecom for example when it comes to licensing and operations. Metro is definitely one of the biggest advantages of setting up office in JLT. Apart from this, the fact that its mixed use gives owners the option of staying and working in the same area obviating the need for driving to work. Also, Marina being a stone's throw away gives JLT a big advantage.

Out of curiosity, where do you think the rents will level off in Business Bay?


----------



## docc

Dubai_Steve said:


> What do you see the average Marina residential rents setting at for 1 and 2 beds?


I see 1 beds leveling off at 120-140k and 2 beds between 170-200k depending on views.


----------



## makerian

Dubai_Steve said:


> What do you see the average Marina residential rents setting at for 1 and 2 beds?





docc said:


> Makerian,
> 
> Also, Marina being a stone's throw away gives JLT a big advantage.
> 
> Out of curiosity, where do you think the rents will level off in Business Bay?


Couldn't say about Dubai Marina. I've invested in DG in May 2007 buying studios at 350K and still have these. bought and sold JLT commerical several times and was lucky enough to sell my last one in first week of Sep so I feel comfortable talking about rents in these. 

business bay commercial- does anyone know when the first building will be delivered? Given the current global & local environment I would be very hesitant in venturing a guess for a property that is 2 yrs from delivery.


----------



## komi

HappyLarry said:


> Interesting to read that Alineah is being regarded as an authority on Dubai property trends. On the other hand, I have visited the website from time to time and it invariably has out of date data.
> Apologies in advance if I am treading on any ones toes. :cheers:


I've recently been in contact with someone on their IT team regarding some information on a property being displayed inaccurately (despite having been entered correctly). Found the person useless.

Also, the English on their website is appalling.
ex.:
"MEMORENDUM OF UNDERSTANDING known as M.O.U
Basically it is a contract that both parties buy and seller set up when they wan to engage them self in a purchase or sell of property.
This agreement is well use in the first phase of the sale transaction as it will bring both parties on the table date to apply the transaction on the terms and condition."
etc. etc. The latter may be irrelevant to the validity of their statistical data, though.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

docc said:


> I see 1 beds leveling off at 120-140k and 2 beds between 170-200k depending on views.


Is it true that new regulations will set the rental rates guidelines for certain districts and facilites of the building?


----------



## Wannaberich

makerian said:


> My understanding is that district cooling supplies cold air to mutiple buildings from a district cooling plant. This eliminates needs for individual air conditioning units for buildings and apts and results in economies of scale (supposedly).
> .


This is fine so long as what they charge per year is more or less what someone would pay for air con if they had their own unit.
When comparing maint charges with other developments, a certain amount should be discounted as most other maint charges dont include a charge for a district cooling plant I imagine.
Also,to potential tenants,as you have to allow extra for this in your rental fee it may make the rent sound quite expensive.The tenant is in effect paying up front for his air con whereas normally he would pay monthly direct to DEWA.


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> Apart from this, the fact that its mixed use gives owners the option of staying and working in the same area obviating the need for driving to work.


Mixed use areas like JLT and DSO should prove to be popular for this reason,in my opinion.


----------



## Cyrus55

docc said:


> It's actually highway robbery. I was getting a 1 BR in DG for 850k, but realized it wasn't worth it since maintenance fees are just plain ridiculous. Buy a place for 850k and then continue to pay approx 35-40k p.a to maintain it? I don't think so...
> 
> Can't wait for the strata law to be released.


35-40K pa can not be correct, I know that MF in the Views by Emaar for a two bed is around 25-27K pa!


----------



## Arno Salzl

*no comment*

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/540596-property-poker


----------



## legal eagle

*yield out you greedy B8st*rd*



Cyrus55 said:


> 35-40K pa can not be correct, I know that MF in the Views by Emaar for a two bed is around 25-27K pa!


From this basic exercise it does show how all these costs really murder the yield.

And while you may not use a management company- a true businesss investor would factor the cost in anyway- (whether you fix the leaky tap or your plumber does there's still a labour cost to someone).

From looking at these figures last night its not as good a play as I thought on DG as a rental.

Worse is that you are forced to look expensive b/c of the district cooling to potential tenants...:nuts:


----------



## TDemirel

*Villa Maintenance Charges*



docc said:


> Btw, can someone who owns a villa tell me how much they are paying as annual maintenance charges?


Hi Docc
I'm living in a villa.
Arabian Ranches - Palmera
Type C - 1889 sqft
Maintenance charge: 9600 AED / year.

The main difference between the villas and apartments is; the above charge is only for the maintenance of the community.
For the maintenance of the villa (after the expiry of 1 year warranty) you need to make a separate annual maintenance contract with private companies like Emrill, Hitches and Glitches and you would pay around 6000 AED / year. 
The latter covers only preventive maintenance and man power charges for an eventual repair. Materials are at extra cost.
So this will give you around 16000 AED / year or 9 AED / sqft.
Plus the maintenance and keeping of garden.

It sounds cheap, but you need to consider for a long term operation.
In a typical villa like this you will have:
1) MIN 3 A/C units (compressors) installed on the roof and air handling units installed in the bathrooms. 
2) A booster pump installed in the garage for pumping the water from the water tank.
3) One water heater for every tap.

In an apartment with District Cooling you will have none of the above under your personal responsability of maintenance repair, but simple fan coils to blow the air inside the apartment.

One last consideration, mine being one of the smallest villas in AR, in the summer time my DEWA bill reaches to 1500 AED/month and in winter the bottom is 500 AED/month.

I have friends leaving in JLT (Madina Tower - 2 BD - 2000+ sqft) they pay almost consistent of 300 AED/month for DEWA.


----------



## docc

Hi Tdemirel,

Thank you for the detailed response. What is your plot size and are you charged only on BUA or on total plot size?

For my Al Furjan villa, i have been quoted fairly high prices by Nakheel. The last page of the contract has the expected maintenance charges and approximate annual charge for my villa (which is a 6 bed with BUA of 6000 Sft and plot size of 10,000 Sft) is around AED 9/Sft (includes plot area) which means i'd be paying around AED 90k in master community charges ALONE :nuts:

Add to this the other charges such as the ones you mentioned, and i'd be paying as much as 130-140k per annum in total! This IMO is highway robbery and definitely something i'm going to have to take up with Nakheel!

If i add to this all the other charges you mentioned such as utilities, maintenance of garden etc, i'd probably be paying somewhere around 160-180k per annum in total :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:


----------



## docc

Cyrus55 said:


> 35-40K pa can not be correct, I know that MF in the Views by Emaar for a two bed is around 25-27K pa!


Well, at AED 29/Sft for a 1000 Sft apartment + AED 10k PA for district cooling, it works out to be 40k!!!


----------



## legal eagle

*29 all in`*



docc said:


> Well, at AED 29/Sft for a 1000 Sft apartment + AED 10k PA for district cooling, it works out to be 40k!!!


Docc its 29/ft2 all in

But this still can breach the 30k mark in some cases!


----------



## docc

^^ Oh ok, thanks for the clarification.

Btw, is it just me or have prices stabilized? I'm not seeing any significant distress sales anymore. If i'm not looking in the right places, can someone point them out to me? It's just the furore and craziness that we were witnessing over the last month doesn't seem to be there to that degree anymore. Is this a sign of the market improving?


----------



## legal eagle

*possibly bottomed out*

If it has hit the lowest point it will not go mainstream (or be accepted) for several months.

Most people will miss the base point and talk about diving in once 7 days calls it :bash:

A lot of condolences have been coming to us from friends abroad re the collapse in property prices, but I have been trying to point out to them that this is actually their chance to get into the market at unbeatable prices 

So while we may suffer others should see the opportunity.


----------



## docc

^^ I guess so.

Not, but seriously, if someone knows where to look, let me know! I keep hearing about all these fantastic deals and whenever i call an agency, all i'm told is that they either just sold it or someone's placed a block on it or some crap like that. I'm so fed up at this point that i don't even bother calling anymore.

As far as completed property is concerned, DG, IC, Marina and JLT seem to have the best investment opportunities right now.


----------



## legal eagle

*you are welcome!*



docc said:


> ^^ I guess so.
> 
> Not, but seriously, if someone knows where to look, let me know! I keep hearing about all these fantastic deals and whenever i call an agency, all i'm told is that they either just sold it or someone's placed a block on it or some crap like that. I'm so fed up at this point that i don't even bother calling anymore.
> 
> As far as completed property is concerned, DG, IC, Marina and JLT seem to have the best investment opportunities right now.


http://www.expatriates.com/cls/3997767.html :lol:


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> ^^ Oh ok, thanks for the clarification.
> 
> Btw, is it just me or have prices stabilized? I'm not seeing any significant distress sales anymore. If i'm not looking in the right places, can someone point them out to me? It's just the furore and craziness that we were witnessing over the last month doesn't seem to be there to that degree anymore. Is this a sign of the market improving?


Personally I dont think you should take too much notice of published sales prices.I believe a decent percentage of properties up for sale are not achieving their sales price by quite a bit.
Its a buyers market after all and thats what usually happens in this situation.


----------



## Bobby G

To be honest people went under the misconception that there are far too many "distress sales" out there largely because the word keeps thrown around. The truth is these largely appeared in the off-plan Emaar and Nakheel projects (Bawadi, Burj Park, Veneto, Badrah, etc...) and those were the pure speculator heaven communities.

However, there are few good deals to be found. If you have cash in general, there are deals to be found in DG, Furjan, DIFC, Culture Village and to a lesser extent in JLT.

At this moment, getting 10% annual return from rent is excellent, and people should focus on getting either ready properties or off-plan which is visibly under construction but they can see a "x-factor" about it.

Palazzo Versace in Culture Village can be found in the AED 4k-5k per sq.ft., if you know the right people and we are talking about a luxury hotel here. And thats at the original price. If you pinpoint a few stressed out individuals then you can hit the jackpot!


----------



## docc

legal eagle said:


> http://www.expatriates.com/cls/3997767.html :lol:


I've seen quite a few of those. I've infact turned down a few units at 850k (different buildings) because of the maintenance costs. I don't see rents staying this high in such locations for long so can't base my costs on current market rate.


----------



## makerian

legal eagle said:


> A lot of condolences have been coming to us from friends abroad re the collapse in property prices, but I have been trying to point out to them that this is actually their chance to get into the market at unbeatable prices


Let's assume that prices have declined by 25% (just an arbitrary assumption) for properties that investors would be interested in, in the current environment, i.e. completed property or property that is close to completion or X-factor. 

Even if foreign investors wanted to take advantage of this price decline, they still face purchase of a currency - AED which has appreciated by 25% against most currencies. So their net buying power in terms of their home currency is unchanged. 

From this international investor's point of view, his money would go a longer way if he wanted to purchase in non dollar-pegged markets. All most all global real estate markets are in a slump and there are bargains everywhere. So why would an investor from UK or India, e.g. put his money into Dubai property at this point?


----------



## legal eagle

*10 per cent net yields*



docc said:


> I've seen quite a few of those. I've infact turned down a few units at 850k (different buildings) because of the maintenance costs. I don't see rents staying this high in such locations for long so can't base my costs on current market rate.


Docc- why don;t we try a little exercise now to find residential units delivering 10% yields today after costs.

After doing the maths here it seems unlikely with DG units, and I am wondering if it is (in fact) possible to achieve.

Criteria is that they have to be completed and ready to rent- is there anything out there?

^^


----------



## docc

^^ It might be possible for now, but i don't think it's possible in the long run.

1 BR at 850-900k rents out at 105-115k P.A. Maintenance is around 29/Sft and average 1 BR size is around 1100 Sft, therefore requiring owners to pay around AED 33k P.A. So, net returns are around 75-85k giving us yield of 9-10%.

Once all the buildings are delivered, rents will significantly come down, making 10% yields possible only for those people who purchased at OP or early in the race. Current owners might have to adjust with significantly lesser yields (maybe 5-6%) in the long run. Honestly, i see rents in DG for 1 BR's leveling off at around 70-80k tops.

Btw, how many buildings are there in DG? Somehow i find it hard to believe the 290 number quoted everywhere. Assuming this number is true, how many of them have been handed over so far?


----------



## legal eagle

*fair point*



makerian said:


> Let's assume that prices have declined by 25% (just an arbitrary assumption) for properties that investors would be interested in, in the current environment, i.e. completed property or property that is close to completion or X-factor.
> 
> Even if foreign investors wanted to take advantage of this price decline, they still face purchase of a currency - AED which has appreciated by 25% against most currencies. So their net buying power in terms of their home currency is unchanged.
> 
> From this international investor's point of view, his money would go a longer way if he wanted to purchase in non dollar-pegged markets. All most all global real estate markets are in a slump and there are bargains everywhere. So why would an investor from UK or India, e.g. put his money into Dubai property at this point?


Very valid point on the exchange rates

We used GBP to by a one bed unit OP was Dhms 622,700 for a 958 ft2 apt

Our average rate was 6.5Dhms to the pound so it cost us approx GBP 95,800

If I sold at OP today the approx 5.5Dhms to pound exchange rate would mean a cost of GBP 113,218.


----------



## mrobbie

Property Rental Questions...

Looking into the possibility of renting out our apartment, but would only be looking to do so for 1 year. Is this possible here in Dubai? I hear stories of owners unable to have their tenants out as a tenant is assured the option to keep the property for 3 years unless a family member needs the property... may or may not be true? Can we specify in our lease that it is for a maximum of 12 months?

Also, agent fees? I see that a tenant pays around 5% comission up front to the agent. What does the landlord pay the agent? If it is rented out is there a fee? What would this (approx) be, and what would be the fee for an agent-managed property?


----------



## legal eagle

*true*



docc said:


> ^^ It might be possible for now, but i don't think it's possible in the long run.
> 
> 1 BR at 850-900k rents out at 105-115k P.A. Maintenance is around 29/Sft and average 1 BR size is around 1100 Sft, therefore requiring owners to pay around AED 33k P.A. So, net returns are around 75-85k giving us yield of 9-10%.
> 
> Once all the buildings are delivered, rents will significantly come down, making 10% yields possible only for those people who purchased at OP or early in the race. Current owners might have to adjust with significantly lesser yields (maybe 5-6%) in the long run. Honestly, i see rents in DG for 1 BR's leveling off at around 70-80k tops.
> 
> Btw, how many buildings are there in DG? Somehow i find it hard to believe the 290 number quoted everywhere. Assuming this number is true, how many of them have been handed over so far?



I think you might be right here....

And those yields don;t include any hidden expenses like furnishings and repairs etc...

Its not a steal really even in the 800's hno:


----------



## docc

^^ Exactly. Hence the reason why i'm staying away from these so called "steal deals".


----------



## docc

mrobbie said:


> Property Rental Questions...
> 
> Looking into the possibility of renting out our apartment, but would only be looking to do so for 1 year. Is this possible here in Dubai? I hear stories of owners unable to have their tenants out as a tenant is assured the option to keep the property for 3 years unless a family member needs the property... may or may not be true? Can we specify in our lease that it is for a maximum of 12 months?
> 
> Also, agent fees? I see that a tenant pays around 5% comission up front to the agent. What does the landlord pay the agent? If it is rented out is there a fee? What would this (approx) be, and what would be the fee for an agent-managed property?


Tenant can stay 3 years, unless ofcourse you prove that you'd like to use the apartment for yourself. You can re-rent for a whole year if you don't live in it. There's a lot of ambiguity as far as this issue is concerned so no one can give you the correct answer.

You don't pay any agent's fee; only the tenant does. Property management services vary from company to company and are usually priced per Sft.


----------



## makerian

docc said:


> ^^
> Btw, how many buildings are there in DG? Somehow i find it hard to believe the 290 number quoted everywhere. Assuming this number is true, how many of them have been handed over so far?


I have studios in Bldg 38 & 70 and these are in the Mediterranean Cluster. After that you have Moghul and a couple of other clusters that supposedly stretch all the way to Emirates Rd. If they didn't skip numbers then that number of 290 is plausible. 

A few bldgs have been handed over. I'm still waiting for my apts and its frustrating given that I made full payments as early as August. Lots and lots of snagging issues and some leaks in the recent rains as well for those apts that have been handed over. 

Incidentally as I was typing this, I got a call from my broker who I had listed my Studio in DG for sale with. She advised that I would have to drop it below 600K if I wanted a sale and also told me that she had a 1 Bed for sale for 750K.


----------



## makerian

A potential way to ensure the tenant leaves after the first yr if you can get them to agree to it: 

Make the tenancy contract for an amount higher (say 30% higher) than the amount you both agree to. Rebate him/her this difference immediately on signing the tenancy contract. 

Since the tenancy contract is for a higher amount, they have to leave at the end of one yr or will required to renew it at the higher amount after a year is up. 

(Did I just land myself in trouble by suggesting this?


----------



## docc

^^ Awesome suggestion!

I didn't even know that was possible! Thanks!


----------



## legal eagle

*so*

Where are the 10 per cent net yield deals here?

There must be some out there?

If DG is not offering them then is IC doing any better? Maybe JBR is the place to find them...

any thoughts


----------



## Arno Salzl

docc said:


> For my Al Furjan villa, i have been quoted fairly high prices by Nakheel. The last page of the contract has the expected maintenance charges and approximate annual charge for my villa (which is a 6 bed with BUA of 6000 Sft and plot size of 10,000 Sft) is around AED 9/Sft (includes plot area) which means i'd be paying around AED 90k in master community charges per annum :nuts:


Docc, did you buy your Al Furjan recently? I'm looking for a townhouse, middle, phase 1, original price approx 2,400,000 AED (i.e. approx 1K AED/sqft)


----------



## AltinD

District Cooling was supposed to cut down the A/C cooling costs by 40%, so how can they charge 10k p.a. just for that, plus the individual A/C charges? 

That's like the guy who paid 2 dirhams to weld together the two 1 dirham halves he found on the street. :nuts:


----------



## Bobby G

There wont be a total of 290 buildings. There are approximately 100 odd in this phase, with Mogul and Mediterranean. 

You have to discount the few Zen ones which Nakheel have rented out themselves.

And Cactus and the other phase are not even on sale or for rent.


----------



## docc

Arno Salzl said:


> Docc, did you buy your Al Furjan recently? I'm looking for a townhouse, middle, phase 1, original price approx 2,400,000 AED (i.e. approx 1K AED/sqft)


Yea, i got it at 0% premium just about a month ago. Fortunately, that was the day when Nakheel waived off the 2% transfer fee and the accelerated payment.

You can find quite a few Al Furjan villa's at 0% premium these days, so just take your pick.


----------



## docc

AltinD said:


> District Cooling was supposed to cut down the A/C cooling costs by 40%, so how can they charge 10k p.a. just for that, plus the individual A/C charges?
> 
> That's like the guy who paid 2 dirhams to weld together the two 1 dirham halves he found on the street. :nuts:


Because they are greeeeeedy!

All this easy money will become a thing of the past once there are better regulations and more importantly building associations.


----------



## docc

Bobby G said:


> There wont be a total of 290 buildings. There are approximately 100 odd in this phase, with Mogul and Mediterranean.
> 
> You have to discount the few Zen ones which Nakheel have rented out themselves.
> 
> And Cactus and the other phase are not even on sale or for rent.


So, you're saying that of all the 6 zones, only 2 are currently trading on the market? For those who don't know, the 6 zones are:

1) Zen
2) Mediterranean
3) Contemporary
4) Mogul
5) Mesoamerican
6) Cactus

Personally, i haven't heard anything about Mesoamerican or Cactus and the only one's that i've seen trading a lot are Mediterranean and Mogul.


----------



## Play-Doh

legal eagle said:


> Where are the 10 per cent net yield deals here?
> 
> There must be some out there?
> 
> If DG is not offering them then is IC doing any better? Maybe JBR is the place to find them...
> 
> any thoughts


Hi Legal Eagle,

I have a 528sq.ft studio in DG which is handed over and which should rent for 75-80k pa according to agents so let's assume 77,500. I would currently sell at 625k. With the approx 15k charges paid for man fees and cooling, net income is 62,500 on 625k - bingo - 10%!!

I recognise this doesn't include additional costs but with a studio I anticipate these to be minimal.


----------



## Wannaberich

makerian said:


> A potential way to ensure the tenant leaves after the first yr if you can get them to agree to it:
> 
> Make the tenancy contract for an amount higher (say 30% higher) than the amount you both agree to. Rebate him/her this difference immediately on signing the tenancy contract.
> 
> Since the tenancy contract is for a higher amount, they have to leave at the end of one yr or will required to renew it at the higher amount after a year is up.
> 
> (Did I just land myself in trouble by suggesting this?


This will be easy enough assuming the tenant is mentally challenged:nuts:


----------



## docc

Play-Doh said:


> Hi Legal Eagle,
> 
> I have a 528sq.ft studio in DG which is handed over and which should rent for 75-80k pa according to agents so let's assume 77,500. I would currently sell at 625k. With the approx 15k charges paid for man fees and cooling, net income is 62,500 on 625k - bingo - 10%!!
> 
> I recognise this doesn't include additional costs but with a studio I anticipate these to be minimal.


You are calculating yields based on TODAY. When making an investment, you have to consider yields over a 5-10 year period which is a true representation of the property's value.

You will get 75-80k today, but it's highly unlikely that you will get the same next year or the year after. I see studio rents leveling off at around 50k at DG in the long run. That puts the yield well under the 10% that one is able to achieve now.

Same thing happened in JLT. People used to get (and still get) 220-250/Sft, but i know some desperate owners willing to lease out at even 135/Sft simply because they'd prefer to see low yield than no yields at all. Ofcourse, there are still those who want 250/Sft, but as discussed earlier, as more and more units come onto the market rents will stabilize around the 150-170/Sft mark.


----------



## Bobby G

Yes only those two are on the market and they are the only two that will be on the market as the others are being retained by Nakheel themselves.


----------



## legal eagle

*yes but no but*



Play-Doh said:


> Hi Legal Eagle,
> 
> I have a 528sq.ft studio in DG which is handed over and which should rent for 75-80k pa according to agents so let's assume 77,500. I would currently sell at 625k. With the approx 15k charges paid for man fees and cooling, net income is 62,500 on 625k - bingo - 10%!!
> 
> I recognise this doesn't include additional costs but with a studio I anticipate these to be minimal.


I am in exactly the same boat with (to be honest) quite a large number of units in DG.

Do we hold or sell on.

I would set your rent at 65,000 to guarantee it does not need to be furnished and to guarantee it is rented easily.

I would guess management fees to be 10 per cent (something we as an investment grp would have to factor in)

And I would add an additional 5 per cent of rent to go on Misc expenses (painting/fixing/void periods).


So 15k to Nakheel 

plus 15% running costs and we are at 6.5% net.

Killjoy or not this is the maths I would do and would allow me to allocate/promise/commit that income elsewhere.

If anymore income was acheived over and above this 65k gross!!! that would go down as sentiment in my books.


----------



## docc

6.5% really makes it a less than satisfactory investment, doesn't it? 

I mean, with banks now giving 5.5% interest on FD's and upto 6% with investments above 1 million, what's the point of investing in real estate? Sure, they'd be capital gain, but in the current market, those FD's are looking more lucrative (and SAFE) to be honest.


----------



## legal eagle

*bad mood*

God I wish I hadn;t done this Discovery Gdns exercise today....hno:

Apologies all... and trust me I have no interest in running these down... quite the opposite in fact :bash:


----------



## Play-Doh

docc said:


> You are calculating yields based on TODAY. When making an investment, you have to consider yields over a 5-10 year period which is a true representation of the property's value.
> 
> You will get 75-80k today, but it's highly unlikely that you will get the same next year or the year after. I see studio rents leveling off at around 50k at DG in the long run. That puts the yield well under the 10% that one is able to achieve now.
> 
> Same thing happened in JLT. People used to get (and still get) 220-250/Sft, but i know some desperate owners willing to lease out at even 135/Sft simply because they'd prefer to see low yield than no yields at all. Ofcourse, there are still those who want 250/Sft, but as discussed earlier, as more and more units come onto the market rents will stabilize around the 150-170/Sft mark.


Hi Docc, thanks and I do appreciate that. Sorry thought we were looking for a 10% yield based on today's data. To find a 10% yield on today's price but a 5-10 year view of income is almost impossible. You may need a 13-15% yield based on today's rental income and costs to realise your requirement in the coming years. I don't know of many opportunities out there where with a fully costed approach you can find 13-15% today. The holy grail in UK 'bottom feeding' investing is to find a 12% yield pre-costs.


----------



## docc

^^ Unfortunately, greater than 10% yields are mostly possible for those who invested a few years back. Prices rose almost 60-80% in the last year alone causing the mess that we are all in right now.

There are some good deals in JLT that can be had at around 1000-1200/Sft (distress sales), but these are most for U/C towers which will not be ready for another year or two. By then rents would have leveled of around 170/Sft, so these investments would still provide around 12-15% yields. It's just a matter of finding the right deal at this point, i guess...


----------



## Wannaberich

Has anyone noticed any indications of falling rent prices in general or do you expect to see this?For the last few months I've only noticed rents going up.


----------



## docc

legal eagle said:


> God I wish I hadn;t done this Discovery Gdns exercise today....hno:
> 
> Apologies all... and trust me I have no interest in running these down... quite the opposite in fact :bash:


You don't need to feel bad about anything. It's not like anyone is trying to drive down the value of these properties intentionally or anything.


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> Has anyone noticed any indications of falling rent prices in general or do you expect to see this?For the last few months I've only noticed rents going up.


No one is talking about falling rents in short term. These are predictions in the long run. 

Area's such as Marina, JBR, JLT etc will always be in high demand as they are high end will demand higher rents.

Areas like DG, IC etc will fetch lower rents as they were primary intended as middle-income housing.


----------



## TDemirel

docc said:


> Hi Tdemirel,
> 
> Thank you for the detailed response. What is your plot size and are you charged only on BUA or on total plot size?
> 
> For my Al Furjan villa, i have been quoted fairly high prices by Nakheel. The last page of the contract has the expected maintenance charges and approximate annual charge for my villa (which is a 6 bed with BUA of 6000 Sft and plot size of 10,000 Sft) is around AED 9/Sft (includes plot area) which means i'd be paying around AED 90k in master community charges ALONE :nuts:
> 
> Add to this the other charges such as the ones you mentioned, and i'd be paying as much as 130-140k per annum in total! This IMO is highway robbery and definitely something i'm going to have to take up with Nakheel!
> 
> If i add to this all the other charges you mentioned such as utilities, maintenance of garden etc, i'd probably be paying somewhere around 160-180k per annum in total :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:


Hi Docc
It is a small plot and it varies between 2500 to 2600 ft.
Emaar, to my experience also with Springs and Meadows does not charge by plot size, but community wise and respective villas.
So they have a fixed charge for Palmera, Hattan, Mirador with regards to the villa types.
Good luck with Nakheel, but Emaar is pretty much fairer than them even they increased community charge by app. 50% this year.
I have a friend who owns a Terranova Type 17. (around 9000 sqft plot) and he pays around 18.000 AED/year.


----------



## docc

TDemirel said:


> Hi Docc
> It is a small plot and it varies between 2500 to 2600 ft.
> Emaar, to my experience also with Springs and Meadows does not charge by plot size, but community wise and respective villas.
> So they have a fixed charge for Palmera, Hattan, Mirador with regards to the villa types.
> Good luck with Nakheel, but Emaar is pretty much fairer than them even they increased community charge by app. 50% this year.
> I have a friend who owns a Terranova Type 17. (around 9000 sqft plot) and he pays around 18.000 AED/year.


Wow, AED 18,000 for Terra Nova! Looks like we're going to have put up a fight with Nakheel to sort this out when time comes hno:

Thanks for the info TDemirel.


----------



## aazain

docc said:


> No one is talking about falling rents in short term. These are predictions in the long run.
> 
> Area's such as Marina, JBR, JLT etc will always be in high demand as they are high end will demand higher rents.
> 
> Areas like DG, IC etc will fetch lower rents as they were primary intended as middle-income housing.


DG is not fetching low rents.The rental in DG for 1 B/R is between 100K-110K. JLT and Marina are not far more than this level...some properties can be found in these areas between this range.


----------



## jixline

^^ so u quoted him w/o reading...


----------



## aazain

^^^^What i mean to say that DG is not fetching lower rents compared to JLT and Marina which are quoted as high end developments


----------



## dubaiprojects

docc said:


> Can he look into his crystal ball and tell me if the prediction about the world coming to an end in 2012 is also true?
> 
> J/k....Or am i?


Well you don't need a crystal ball rather a statistical brain which you may not have 
He was only showing us that since 1970s, financial crisis have been happening with so and so years of gap and based on statistical analysis the next financial crises will happen in 2011 (3 years from the current one) . 


By the way how much will you lose by then? hope not all of your fortune. so its time to listen and act wisely. listen to people like imre. he has posted an excellent article i must say


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> In 2011 the market will be flooded with apartments so rents may dip for a year or 2.


Flooded as early as 2011 even though many projects are now on hold?


----------



## docc

dubaiprojects,

Ouch!

You're a feisty one, aren't you. Learn to take a joke mate. Did you NOT notice the big smiley face at the end of my post?

And please don't get personal. I can very easily answer your post with some rude comments as well as personal attacks but find that beneath me as we are all educated individuals.

Oh, and you know NOTHING about me or my investments, so please don't talk like you do. Thank you.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Torch, MAG 218, Princess, Ocean Heights, many others... all complete in 2011 so several thousand units hitting the market at the same time.


----------



## docc

^^ Pretty much the same thing that is happening in JLT right now. Rents that had started at 250/Sft for commercial space are now settling under 200/Sft , firstly due to more choice and secondly ofcourse, due to the current economic climate.


----------



## AltinD

Dubai_Steve said:


> :banana::banana::banana::banana:
> 
> Must be part of the consolidation plan to bring maximum guests in while Dubailand is severely delayed.


No, it's just a plan not to be left behind by the opening of Aquadventure @Atlantis.


----------



## BenjiDXB

AltinD said:


> No, it's just a plan not to be left behind by the opening of Aquadventure @Atlantis.


Mhmmm two more rides / slides in Wild Wadi...do you guys think it will have such an impact on tourism in Dubai ? :dunno:


----------



## Wannaberich

Wannaberich said:


> Thank God,at last some really good news.This should make all the difference.
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/540790-wild-wadi-to-add-two-new-rides


Errr,I was just kidding.


----------



## Imre

Dubai island-building project slows with economy The Boston Globe 

http://article.wn.com/view/2008/11/30/Dubai_islandbuilding_project_slows_with_economy/

look the pic


----------



## Imre

another one

Dubai realty investments exceed Dh158b in 2oo8 Gulf News 
Thursday, 11 December 

http://article.wn.com/view/2008/12/03/Dubai_realty_investments_exceed_Dh158b_in_2oo8/

so they know the SSC 

more:

http://article.wn.com/view/2008/11/22/Dubai_eyes_palm_extravaganza_despite_financial_woe/

and this one is tagalog 

http://article.wn.com/view/2008/11/...e_sa_UAE/?template=cheetah_languages/news.txt


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^  everyone knows SSCs and Imre Solt.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

BenjiDXB said:


> Mhmmm two more rides / slides in Wild Wadi...do you guys think it will have such an impact on tourism in Dubai ? :dunno:


Hopefully this is not the total result of their BIG PLAN:



> "Our tourism target is still intact but what we are doing at the moment is trying to gather information, looking at trends and patterns around the world related to travel and tourism," he told the news provider.
> 
> "In maximum two weeks' time, we will announce a new strategy to attract tourists during the global economic crisis," he added.


ehhhhm, did he not say that more than 2 weeks ago now? :nuts:


----------



## Thorneyvilla1

makerian said:


> A potential way to ensure the tenant leaves after the first yr if you can get them to agree to it:
> 
> Make the tenancy contract for an amount higher (say 30% higher) than the amount you both agree to. Rebate him/her this difference immediately on signing the tenancy contract.
> 
> Since the tenancy contract is for a higher amount, they have to leave at the end of one yr or will required to renew it at the higher amount after a year is up.






docc said:


> ^^ Awesome suggestion!
> 
> I didn't even know that was possible! Thanks!



Have to say that is deeply despicable behaviour. The kind of 'screw 'em for every penny we can' view of tenants. Behaviour like this has generated the term 'scumbag landlords' amongst Dubai tenants and gives all of us a bad name.

Congratulations to both of you for revealing your true colours.


----------



## Imre

good deal, found the today Gulfnews:

Discovery Gardens , Mediterranen , V type Building

30 1 br for sale ,829-1001 sqft, prices from 791.695.- AED to 925.925.- AED ( 925-955 dhs/sqft) , 70% finance from Tamweel


----------



## Thorneyvilla1

Imre said:


> good deal, found the today Gulfnews:
> 
> Discovery Gardens , Mediterranen , V type Building
> 
> 30 1 br for sale ,829-1001 sqft, prices from 791.695.- AED to 925.925.- AED ( 925-955 dhs/sqft) , 70% finance from Tamweel


Staggering!

Considering we were seeing prices of 1.6m for DG 1 beds in August thats a 50% drop in 4 months.


----------



## docc

^^ Really? i'd never seen 1.6 M for 1 BR's in DG. I've seen 1.1 to 1.2 M, but those too were for financed apartments. Are you sure about the 1.6 M figure?

Oh, btw, i wasn't suggesting that people try the 30% higher rental increment from your earlier post; it was just an interesting suggestion. It would also be ILLEGAL btw!!!


----------



## smussuw

still expensive, 2BR should never be over 500k unless it is in a prime location like Dubai Marina or Burj Dubai Downtown.


----------



## Richard Head

Thorneyvilla1 said:


> Have to say that is deeply despicable behaviour. The kind of 'screw 'em for every penny we can' view of tenants. Behaviour like this has generated the term 'scumbag landlords' amongst Dubai tenants and gives all of us a bad name.
> 
> Congratulations to both of you for revealing your true colours.


I get 190 for my villa thanks to the cap. Market rate is 320 minimum. For the extra 130k I'll stand being called a scumbag by you or anyone else.


----------



## legal eagle

*Hmm*



Imre said:


> good deal, found the today Gulfnews:
> 
> Discovery Gardens , Mediterranen , V type Building
> 
> 30 1 br for sale ,829-1001 sqft, prices from 791.695.- AED to 925.925.- AED ( 925-955 dhs/sqft) , 70% finance from Tamweel


Looks like rents will cover mortgage repayments.

Classic BTL play here if the rental mket survives.:nuts:


----------



## dubaiprojects

docc said:


> dubaiprojects,
> 
> Ouch!
> 
> You're a feisty one, aren't you. Learn to take a joke mate. Did you NOT notice the big smiley face at the end of my post?
> 
> And please don't get personal. I can very easily answer your post with some rude comments as well as personal attacks but find that beneath me as we are all educated individuals.
> 
> Oh, and you know NOTHING about me or my investments, so please don't talk like you do. Thank you.


You are welcome to say anything even rude comments, you started it with the most stupid remarks on a serious discussion. Anyway I forgive you.. take it easy... I am not interested in your investments and i wish you all the best. Cheers


----------



## makerian

*Of Scum and Saints*



Thorneyvilla1 said:


> Have to say that is deeply despicable behaviour. The kind of 'screw 'em for every penny we can' view of tenants. Behaviour like this has generated the term 'scumbag landlords' amongst Dubai tenants and gives all of us a bad name.
> 
> Congratulations to both of you for revealing your true colours.


Thanks for your response. I'll take the passion in it as an indication that the idea is actually pretty good for landlords. I will however have to decline credit for its originality since such a deal was offered to me for by a broker for a shop I was looking to rent in Int'l City. 

Incidentally I don't think it would be despicable of me as an investor if I engaged in it. I have the right to act in my best interest and if I was making the terms clear to the tenant before signing the contract then there is no question of being a scumbag. (Free Will Baby!! He/She is free to look for landlords such as yourself who I'm sure would bake cookies for him/her every time a renewal came along.) 

Having said that it is also my obligation to act within the laws prescribed by the govt of the country in which I am investing. If this idea is illegal which is a decent possibility, I would never engage in it. If I were a RERA official, I may even outright ban it. 

Some landlords become scum because they try to act in their best interest in a situation where demand tremendously outweighed supply. If the situation was reversed, don't you think some tenants would resort to scum-like tactics as well? This is a human nature issue. Think about it.


----------



## Wannaberich

Thorneyvilla1 said:


> Have to say that is deeply despicable behaviour. The kind of 'screw 'em for every penny we can' view of tenants. Behaviour like this has generated the term 'scumbag landlords' amongst Dubai tenants and gives all of us a bad name.
> 
> Congratulations to both of you for revealing your true colours.


Landlords don't give a ---- about tenants and vice versa.
It bores me how landlords are always the ones who get the bad press.


----------



## docc

dubaiprojects said:


> You are welcome to say anything even rude comments, you started it with the most stupid remarks on a serious discussion. Anyway I forgive you.. take it easy... I am not interested in your investments and i wish you all the best. Cheers


You forgive me? Errr, when did i apologize? I don't see a reason to apologize.

Anyyyyyways, my point was that predictions mean nothing. Heck, if predictions actually meant anything, the whole world wouldn't be in this mess now, would it?

Oh, and thank you for the wishes; best wishes to you as well


----------



## dubaiprojects

docc said:


> You forgive me? Errr, when did i apologize? I don't see a reason to apologize.
> 
> Anyyyyyways, my point was that predictions mean nothing. Heck, if predictions actually meant anything, the whole world wouldn't be in this mess now, would it?
> 
> Oh, and thank you for the wishes; best wishes to you as well


Its ok, peace


----------



## lovedubai

makerian said:


> T
> 
> Some landlords become scum because they try to act in their best interest in a situation where demand tremendously outweighed supply. If the situation was reversed, don't you think some tenants would resort to scum-like tactics as well? This is a human nature issue. Think about it.


If you think 'human nature' means everyone is quite as devious and sad as you, think again.


----------



## docc

^^ Good heavens! What's the deal with all the personal attacks these days?

Can people please just be civil and impersonal when engaging in a debate? It's perfectly ok to have contradicting opinions but there's really no need for name calling and being rude ok.

Thank you.


----------



## Thorneyvilla1

docc said:


> ^^ Really? i'd never seen 1.6 M for 1 BR's in DG. I've seen 1.1 to 1.2 M, but those too were for financed apartments. Are you sure about the 1.6 M figure?


A real estate agent associate of mine, when recounting the problems encountered with a certain client told me how he had buyers for 1beds in DG for 1.4m. The seller would then ask to try for 1.5m, then 1.6m.... and so on.hno:

The same seller is now asking for 900k.


----------



## legal eagle

*de opp*

All,

While all this sh*t is hammering us and the market and general gloom and doom spirals downwards...

Is there opportunity emerging? and has anyone marked the bottoming out point?


Right now we are trying to work out the following>

will the current stock and near completion units be enough to create over supply?

Will these two types of units still be soaked up even with a population slow down?

Perhaps the stalling and cancellation of new projects wil be in line with a population slow down so that *the demand and supply variable* remains in our favour?

Point is that if the two things happen in unison (_that is new projects stalled & a decrease in population growth_) the situation may remain stable after some emotional selling and panic reactions which are unavoidable.


wat you fink.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai's ruler Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum has bought a 40 percent stake in private developer Damac Properties that plans to invest $6 billion in a Turkish coastal project, Vatan daily said on Friday.

The project includes construction of hotels, houses, shopping malls and marinas on the southwest coast of Turkey, which attracts millions of tourists every summer.

"Dubai's Sheikh al-Maktoum will gain a right in the project by buying 40 percent in the group," Cenk Fis Unlucerci, a an official at Debba, a subsidiary of Damac Properties in Turkey, was quoted as telling Vatan newspaper.

Damac Properties has purchased land worth $500 million in the region, the newspaper said. The first stage of the project is planned to start next year and finish in 2011.

Damac officials were not immediately available for comment.

:no:


----------



## Wannaberich

If the big chief has got enough dough to buy 40% of Damac,so much for the goverment being in debt.
Also,why the ---- is he spending his money investing in Turkey and not Dubai ?!


----------



## legal eagle

*carousel*



Wannaberich said:


> If the big chief has got enough dough to buy 40% of Damac,so much for the goverment being in debt.
> Also,why the ---- is he spending his money investing in Turkey and not Dubai ?!


DUBAI, Dec 12 (Reuters) - Dubai-based Damac Properties on Friday denied a Turkish newspaper report that the emirate's ruler Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum has bought a 40 percent stake in the private developer.


----------



## HappyLarry

docc said:


> ...., my point was that predictions mean nothing. Heck, if predictions actually meant anything, the whole world wouldn't be in this mess now, would it?....


Didn't someone predict this mess?
So are you sure that predictions mean nothing?
:cheers:


----------



## Hanna

*Damac take-over*

I think I said a word or two about the Sheikh al-Maktoum taking over Damac then again
I was lambbasted on the very thought.As I said before and I will say again this brings me no pleasure on predicting Damac's downfall.A person with half a morsel of grey matter could see it coming (I will not name the arse with little grey matter) as all I will get is
SH-t back and I am not interested in what he has to say but here is a hint Hap Lar ! :cheers:


----------



## scoobudubai

*land registration fee*



scoobudubai said:


> we have also been advised legally that we should deposit the registration fee in our escrow account where the land dept has an eye, is that what everyone is doing?



Has anyone who paid the land registration fee into the Select Developments bank account had confirmation that registration has been done?

Sheltie?


----------



## HappyLarry

Hanna said:


> I think I said a word or two about the Sheikh al-Maktoum taking over Damac then again
> I was lambbasted on the very thought.As I said before and I will say again this brings me no pleasure on predicting Damac's downfall.A person with half a morsel of grey matter could see it coming (I will not name the arse) as all I will get is
> SH-t back and I am not interested in what he has to say ! :cheers:


You just had to edit your post to entice me so here I am.

Would it still be true if Damac have denied it? :nuts:

Oh! and keep the level of debate civil. Your fascination with body orifices and vulgarity is noted but not always well placed.


----------



## first timer

lol

it worked and I got a response from the individual concerned and he promised that I was on ignore


----------



## kano

^^^ Nothing is crashing ...IT'S ALL IN THE MIND!


----------



## first timer

kano said:


> ^^^ Nothing is crashing ...IT'S ALL IN THE MIND!


Another day dreamer under the Docs spell

Wake up my friend and face the facts

Get ya head out of the clouds and take a look around you.

Yes maybe not so much evidence at the moment cause nothing selling, not even at bargain prices


----------



## smussuw

^^ is this why the prices are still above 2007 levels?


----------



## kano

^^^nah am no day dreamer...am a lawyer...smarter than you think!


----------



## docc

Imre,

Well, if according to Phillipa's source, 2 million leave, why would 3 million come?

Btw, NHT WILL happen and i have that on very good authority. They aren't going to jeopardize long term plans due to short term issues.


----------



## smussuw

Did anyone say anything about 2 millions leaving? :happy:


----------



## docc

^^ :lol:

I was just wondering when you'd chime in! Rooting for Plan B are ya?


----------



## dubaigreen

If any of you is getting nervous that 2M people are going to leave, and what this will do to your rental income, I am willing to pay 170k Dirham for a spacious 2BR (1500 sqft or higher) around Media City with a good view and low noise level (of course, Discovery Garden should be cheaper for a 2BR) 

I can wait a few Months, so if something comes free in a few Months time, let me know as well.

Thanks
DB


----------



## houshang

2 million will leave UAE ?!
If this is what the government wants, then I should say carry on you are on the right track.But if that is not what they want, then they should do somthing now and before it happens.

I believe, wrong visa policies will affect UAE population much more than credit crunch will do.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

smussuw said:


> Did anyone say anything about 2 millions leaving? :happy:


----------



## Wannaberich

^^Shouldn't that be Burj Dubai in the background?:dunno:


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> Did anyone say anything about 2 millions leaving? :happy:


^^ Yeah, 2 million low pay laborious will leave and the government will make 2 years mandatory labor for every UAE national age 18 to 28. :cheers:


----------



## Arno Salzl

Philippa C said:


> My husband was talking to a good friend who is a senior gov official and he said they're expecting 2 million people to leave the UAE over the next few years. It then depends how many highly paid people arrive in the country. There have never been clear figures on the number of arrivals and their status (so we can judge how much rent they can pay or what price property they can purchase)


Population data are underestimated. Take the 5,2 millions (EIU, end 2007), add another 310,000 (6% growth for 2008), and 500,000 working on visit visa and you have 6 million. 700,000 UAE nationals and 5,3 million foreigners.

2 million leaving is hard to believe, but not impossible if you assume a 50% drop of the construction industry and all related sectors.


----------



## Arno Salzl

Philippa C said:


> On a more positive note, Abu Dhabi rental prices are much higher than Dubai's and supply won't meed demand there until 2011. Being an oil and gas town, Abu Dhabi is much more secure than Dubai so I can image a lot of people working in Abu Dhabi and renting in Dubai or having family in Dubai and lving in small, serviced appartments in Abu Dhabi.
> .


Historically, rental prices have been, most of the time, higher in Abu Dhabi. Was just the other way between 2003 - 2007.

Till the death of Sh. Zayed Al Nahyan, AD housing market was well balanced.
Ups and downs in oils & gas prices have almost no impact on the population, since projecting and engineering are long run (5 to 10 years/project, or longer, see Dolphin).

After decision by new president Sh. Khalifa to expand "like Dubai, but better and bigger", real estate projects and related firms caused the inflow of population and origin of todays inbalance.

IMHO, the whole boom in AD come from the expansion of the real estate feeding itself. AD can build and pay for millions of units. But since AD is also willing to reduce the population inbalance, who will live in the finished projects?


----------



## Imre

docc said:


> Imre,
> 
> Well, if according to Phillipa's source, 2 million leave, why would 3 million come?


we are still waiting for 20000 workers at the City of Arabia site, they started but still not arrived and what about the 1-2 million new workers from China ,Vietnam and North Korea, they will come soon to the Waterfront and Palm Jebel Ali sites

people always changing in Dubai , most of them just for 1-2 years here and after leave thats why the rent will be always good and high.


----------



## BenjiDXB

My guess is that 2009 and 2010 will be difficult years...things will start to get better in 2011 and we should be out of the worst in 2012...that s not even half the time it will take to build Nakheel Harbour and Tower...as an investor in Dubai Real Estate, all you have to do now is think long term...if you can afford it.


----------



## Raza01

(2 Million -1) People to leave U.A.E as i decided not to........ :banana:


----------



## Bobby G

Imre, I have spoken to Tamweel and I can say that they categorically denied that they were giving finance on anything in Discovery Gardens. They said all the buildings financed by them had been sold out a while ago and that they were only giving finance on hand-over with title deed and the people in Gulf News' building is not handed over yet. In fact those guys were claiming that they had a few buildings all financed by Tamweel when its not true.


----------



## dubaiprojects

*cayan has sent a letter to all investors*

How will i upload it?


----------



## kano

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Yeah, 2 million low pay laborious will leave and the government will make 2 years mandatory labor for every UAE national age 18 to 28. :cheers:


 ^^oes that include smussuw?:lol:....just joking Smussu:nuts:w


----------



## Imre

Bobby G said:


> Imre, I have spoken to Tamweel and I can say that they categorically denied that they were giving finance on anything in Discovery Gardens. They said all the buildings financed by them had been sold out a while ago and that they were only giving finance on hand-over with title deed and the people in Gulf News' building is not handed over yet. In fact those guys were claiming that they had a few buildings all financed by Tamweel when its not true.


thanks for the info. maybe an old advert still in the Gulfnews.


----------



## IISinbadII

kano said:


> ^^oes that include smussuw?:lol:....just joking Smussu:nuts:w


Yes, especially if someone wants to become a police lieutenant. :lol:


----------



## smussuw

^^ he became one over a year ago :runaway:


----------



## docc

^^ Holy Moly! Sindbad's a police lieutenant?


----------



## smussuw

^^ he was talking about me :lol:dumbass:lol:


----------



## docc

Ok then....Holy Moly, you're a police lieutenant?!?!

And please, there's no need to call people names. I wouldn't expect that of you atleast.


----------



## kano

smussuw said:


> ^^ he became one over a year ago :runaway:


:lol: Does that mean i will now get arrested as soon as i land in Dubai?


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> ^^ he became one over a year ago :runaway:


مبروك , you are saved!


----------



## dubaifirst

Tractor said:


> I notice that average *asking* prices for marina apartments have dropped to 1750 aed per sq ft vs 1950 about 2 weeks ago. Big drop!
> 
> (info from alineah.com)


alineah now showing price at 1650 AED/ sq ft, ?? 1500 AED end of next week?


----------



## first timer

dubaifirst said:


> alineah now showing price at 1650 AED/ sq ft, ?? 1500 AED end of next week?


You have not seen anything yet

1200 within 9 months


----------



## DanDare

Hi,

Could someone reply to the following question please?

In case someone would default to his payments to the developer and the developer following the terms and conditions of the S&P agreement would cancel the transaction, what happens to the already paid amount?

I am asking cause I know that few months back a new related low had been implemented in Dubai but I am not aware of the respective details.

Does anyone have any idea what is the case in the other Emirates? Ajman, RAK?

thanks in advance


----------



## smussuw

docc said:


> Ok then....Holy Moly, you're a police lieutenant?!?!
> 
> And please, there's no need to call people names. I wouldn't expect that of you atleast.


oh I apologize; it wasn't meant as name calling. It was a friendship bullying :cheers1:


----------



## HappyLarry

smussuw said:


> oh I apologize; it wasn't meant as name calling. It was a friendship bullying :cheers1:


Sweet.:kiss::grouphug:


----------



## Tractor

first timer said:


> You have not seen anything yet
> 
> 1200 within 9 months


Incredible how fast it is dropping, can only be attributed to total panic!


----------



## arfie

People that have bought for 1800 aed+ in off plan over the last year must be really worried right now. However some agents saying there are signs the market is picking up.


----------



## Bimcnorth

arfie said:


> People that have bought for 1800 aed+ in off plan over the last year must be really worried right now. However some agents saying there are signs the market is picking up.


Off-plan buyers will have to sweat it out...me as well

As for the market picking up it will sooner or later, a friend of mine have lined up a dozen new buyers the last ten days he says.

Iranians looking to stash away some cash mostly, money I bet no Iranian authority is aware exists..:lol:


----------



## Bimcnorth

smussuw said:


> ^^ he became one over a year ago :runaway:


Congrats!...Well done :banana:

*whisper* Now about my parking tickets....:lol:


----------



## worried1

*Good to know you smussuw*



smussuw said:


> oh I apologize; it wasn't meant as name calling. It was a friendship bullying :cheers1:


Always good to know high ranking officials anywhere in the world.

smussuw obviously you will get promoted. What is the next rank


----------



## AltinD

Bimcnorth said:


> Congrats!...Well done :banana:
> 
> *whisper* Now about my parking tickets....:lol:


Parking tickets are a RTA responsability, speeding ones are under Police.


... sh*t, I just remembered I got one today in SZR. hno: :runaway:


----------



## AltinD

Raza01 said:


> (2 Million -1) People to leave U.A.E as i decided not to........ :banana:


But I might replace you :shifty:


... not in anyway related to the subject of this thread though.


----------



## nri-hotels

OPEC meets today. Some reports suggest that Russia is thinking of joining the cartel. 

My prediction, no substantial cuts will be made, Russia won't join, and oil will drop between low 40s and mid 30s soon.

Lets see.


----------



## IISinbadII

DanDare said:


> Hi,
> 
> Could someone reply to the following question please?
> 
> In case someone would default to his payments to the developer and the developer following the terms and conditions of the S&P agreement would cancel the transaction, what happens to the already paid amount?
> 
> I am asking cause I know that few months back a new related low had been implemented in Dubai but I am not aware of the respective details.
> 
> Does anyone have any idea what is the case in the other Emirates? Ajman, RAK?
> 
> thanks in advance


My understanding is that the new law applies to future contracts and not the past ones. So you should check the "terms and conditions" of your existing contract to see what will happen to the money already paid.


----------



## IISinbadII

nri-hotels said:


> OPEC meets today. Some reports suggest that Russia is thinking of joining the cartel.
> 
> My prediction, no substantial cuts will be made, Russia won't join, and oil will drop between low 40s and mid 30s soon.
> 
> Lets see.


Time to buy an SUV!


----------



## nri-hotels

nri-hotels said:


> OPEC meets today. Some reports suggest that Russia is thinking of joining the cartel.
> 
> My prediction, no substantial cuts will be made, Russia won't join, and oil will drop between low 40s and mid 30s soon.
> 
> Lets see.


Correction OPEC meets 17th


----------



## nri-hotels

IISinbadII said:


> Time to buy an SUV!


Why? Are you starting a delivery business ?


----------



## docc

smussuw said:


> oh I apologize; it wasn't meant as name calling. It was a friendship bullying :cheers1:


Oh okie, i misunderstood then. No apology required 

:cheers1:


----------



## Bobby G

The guy who sold me mine at just under AED 900,000 is willing to sell his last couple at only AED 750,000 for a quick cash deal! He called me to tell me if I was interested in taking them.


----------



## smussuw

^^ 750,000 for a studio? No thanx



worried1 said:


> smussuw obviously you will get promoted. What is the next rank


Sooner than u imagine, I'll be promoted to 1st Lieutenant in less than year; hopefully a major with a PhD before turning 30 :banana:


----------



## Bobby G

One bedroom my friend...


----------



## docc

Smussuw,

I hate you 

No, i don't! Congrats smussuw, that's quite an achievement. You should be really proud :cheers1:


----------



## smussuw

^^ :cheers:



Bobby G said:


> One bedroom my friend...


Even if it was 2 bedrooms, still expensive !


----------



## 234sale

But he will want to rent it out for 200K a year,,,


----------



## jeetha

Well done Smussuw..…Well deserve and only under 30. :cheers:


----------



## sam69

*Rent yields up demand for ready properties - Emirates Business 15.12.08*http://www.business24-7.ae/articles/2008/12/pages/12152008_fd4bec80ea7a45759ec178519f4932dc.aspx


----------



## rexdmx

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/magazine/14wwln-lede-t.html?em

nice article


----------



## b.l.

I'm following this topic for some time, actually since January this year, when we payed our first installments for two appartments in R092.
Till now, we payed about 50% for both appartments ( one is completely payed), and our next installment is in January.
I have to say that I'm a little bit sceptic about completion date - end of 2009, especially when I see slow improvement till now.
Since I live in Europe, I'm grateful for every comment tied to this project, especially from the people who live there. 
If anyone knows something more about expected completion date for R092, please send your comments...


----------



## Raza01

Dear All intellectuals; Lets assume that this boom is over or say come to realistic level then where all future investments will go. What is the next best option for real estate investors in next five or ten years?

Those who invest for living could not sit idle and wait for Dubai to pick up again. I think we should explore some new opportunities and new locations in other parts of the world.


----------



## docc

^^ Have you read the thread title?

I'd suggest you make a separate thread in the Sky Majlis section to discuss investment options in other cities around the world as this thread is for Dubai ONLY.


----------



## High Times

*GLOBAL WATERFRONT PROPERTY RESEARCH*

I have been conducting some research into Global Waterfront property prices (as this is my area of interest). I feel that regardless of the current cyclical climate, waterfront property offers a lifestyle that will always be highly regarded and sought after both from a resale and rental income perspective.

Obviously prices vary all over the globe, and my objective is not to make a direct comparison per se. I was only trying to understand what the variances are at the moment between different locations in UK, Europe and Asia/Australasia.

Criteria for research.
Property should be new if possible.
Property should be of a good standard.
Property should be Waterfront, either Sea, Lake or River.
Local currency prices have been converted to AED within the last week.

*LONDON - UK*

Caspian Warf London E3 – 3 bedroom apartment 
Total floorspace	760 sqf 
Total selling price	AED 2.8 
Equivalent AED psf	3,684 

Caspian Warf London E3 – 2 bedroom apartment 
Total floorspace	526 sqf 
Total selling price AED 2.48 
Equivalent AED psf 4,562 

http://www.berkeleyhomes.co.uk/index.cfm?articleid=1594&articleaction=availability


Imperial Warf SW6 – 3 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	937 sqf 
Total selling price AED 10.64
Equivalent AED psf	11,355 

Imperial Warf SW6 – 2 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	740 sqf 
Total selling price AED 7.83
Equivalent AED psf	10,581

http://www.imperialwharf.com/index.cfm?articleid=45


*BRIGHTON - UK*

Brighton Marina – Sovereign Court - 3 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	787 sqf 
Total selling price AED 2.35
Equivalent AED psf	2,986 

Brighton Marina – Wellington Court - 2 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	650 sqf 
Total selling price AED 1.8
Equivalent AED psf	2,769 

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0&pid=2277116&agentid=02676


*EXMOUTH - UK*

Exmouth Marina – Regatta Court – 3 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	1350 sqf
Total selling price	AED 3.34
Equivalent AED psf	2,474 psf

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-22913027.rsp?pa_n=1&tr_t=buy&mam_disp=true

Exmouth Marina – Regatta Court – 2 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	656 sqf
Total selling price AED 2.36
Equivalent AED psf	3,597 

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-22912982.rsp?pa_n=1&tr_t=buy&mam_disp=true


*TORQUAY – UK*

Torquay Marina – The Masts – 2 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	940 sqf
Total selling price AED 1.94
Equivalent AED psf	2,063 

Torquay Marina – The Masts – 3 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	1,800 sqf
Total selling price AED 4.71
Equivalent AED psf	2,616 

http://www.johncouch.co.uk/masts/index.htm


*MONACO - EU*

Monaco – Jardin Exotique – 3 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	1614 sqf
Total selling price AED 24.3
Equivalent AED psf	15,055 

http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/prop/37468/detail.htm

Monaco – Eden Tower – 2 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	1184 sqf– 
Total selling price AED 23.17
Equivalent AED psf	19,569 

http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/prop/26899/detail.htm


*CANNES – EU*

Cannes – 2 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	710 sqf
Total selling price AED 2.64
Equivalent AED psf	3,718

Cannes – 3 bedroom apartment
Total floorspace	1442 sqf
Total selling price AED 7.89
Equivalent AED psf	5,471 

http://www.attikainternational.com/pages/search/?development=59


*HONG KONG*

Hong Kong – Sai Kung - 2 bed Marina cove
Total floorspace 1,460
Total selling price AED 6.87
AED psf 4,705 

http://www.squarefoot.com.hk/property/75570


Hong Kong – Sai Kung - 3 bed Marina cove
Total floorspace 1,760
Total selling price AED 7.58
AED psf 4,306 

http://www.squarefoot.com.hk/property/75574


Hong Kong Island Central – 3 bed – Repulse Bay
Total floorspace 1,728
Total selling price AED 11.6
AED psf 6,712

http://www.squarefoot.com.hk/property/77101

Hong Kong Island Central – 2 bed – Repulse Bay
Total floorspace 1,290
Total selling price AED 7.1
AED psf 5,503

http://www.squarefoot.com.hk/property/77545


*SYDNEY AUSTRALIA*

Sydney – 3 bed – Darling point
Total floorspace 753
Total selling price AED 2.1
AED psf 2,788

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...r=&cc=&c=84703642&s=nsw&snf=ras&tm=1227112585


Sydney – 3 bed – Darling point – New Beach rd
Total floorspace 1,431
Total selling price AED 4.5
AED psf 3,144

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...er=&cc=&c=8071519&s=nsw&snf=ras&tm=1227112947


*MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA*


Melbourne – 3 bed – Spring Street 
Total floorspace 1,851
Total selling price AED 5.38
AED psf 2,906

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...r=&cc=&c=76768391&s=vic&snf=rbs&tm=1227113819


Melbourne – 2 bed – Riverside Quay

Total floorspace 1,200
Total selling price AED 2.32
AED psf 1,941

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...r=&cc=&c=76768391&s=vic&snf=rbs&tm=1227113819


*SINGAPORE*

Singapore - The Oceanfront – 3 bed

Total floorspace 1,711
Total selling price AED 8.63
AED psf 5,043

http://www.iproperty.com.sg/property/listing.aspx?pid=IPL002616

Singapore - The Belvedere Mayer rd – 3 bed

Total floorspace 1,367
Total selling price AED 6.12
AED psf 4,462

http://www.iproperty.com.sg/property/listing.aspx?pid=IPL009794

Singapore - The Sail at Marina Bay – 3 bed

Total floorspace 1,700
Total selling price AED 7.76
AED psf 4,564

http://www.iproperty.com.sg/property/listing.aspx?pid=IPL016998

Singapore – 18 Marina Blvd – 2 bed

Total floorspace 1,216
Total selling price AED 6.62
AED psf 5,444

http://www.iproperty.com.sg/property/listing.aspx?pid=IPL015758

Singapore – Tanjong rhu bay – 2 bed

Total floorspace 1,335
Total selling price AED 4.08
AED psf 3,059

http://www.iproperty.com.sg/property/listing.aspx?pid=IPL019428


*Conclusion.*

The conclusion that I draw from my research is that Dubai Marina (my interest) is still below the global average for a top class waterfront destination. Completed property is averaging around AED 1,800 – 2,000 psf at the moment so this is the figure I am using as a Dubai Marina average.

The main differences I see are most of the locations I have looked at are completed projects (some very established), and have a working infrastructure that meets the local needs of the area concerned. They are also not part of a massive construction site that only seems to get worse rather than better. 

I am convinced that when Dubai Marina gets closer to being the finished product, offering top class leisure facilities as well as practical transport solutions to local residents. The area will be second only to Palm Jumeirah in Dubai.


----------



## docc

^^ You feeling alright there? hno:


----------



## HappyLarry

Well done High-Time!

That will cheer up most on here.
:banana::banana::banana:


----------



## Philippa C

High Times said:


> I am convinced that when Dubai Marina gets closer to being the finished product, offering top class leisure facilities as well as practical transport solutions to local residents. The area will be second only to Palm Jumeirah in Dubai.


We sold our unit in Park Island earlier this year and I now regret it. We were at The Walk, JBR at the weekend as it was really nice. Driving over the bridge in the Marina at night, the whole place looked great. 

Will the Sufouh tram project go ahead?


----------



## Wannaberich

Dont think this kind of publicity will do any favours for Dubai.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/expats/expats_news/article2037465.ece


----------



## 234sale

Thanks HT...

Being also from Brighton,, Prices are completely unrealistic for what you can earn their..


----------



## Philippa C

I don't wish to be a doom & gloom merchant - it was I who posted about the 2 mil people leaving! - but I can feel a slow down in Dubai. I booked the car for service yesterday and got a booking today. I did not realise there were 2 service centres so went to wrong one (!) but they were able to fit me in today. Previously, we had to book a service at least 3-4 days in advance. The service cen staff said things are very slow. I guess when money is tight, expenses like servicing the car, are one of the first expenses to be trimmed.

Also the traffic in Al Quoz was very light compared to traffic a few weeks ago.

On a positive note, for those who remain in Dubai the quality of life will improve as more infrastructure projects are completed and maybe the population falls a bit. Services and infrastructure have not been able to keep pace with the growth in population. So, as Dubai becomes a more pleasant place in which to live, more people will want to migrate here and the whole cycle will pick up again, hopefully.


----------



## Philippa C

Wannaberich said:


> Dont think this kind of publicity will do any favours for Dubai.
> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/expats/expats_news/article2037465.ece



I used to think it was crazy living in a scorching desert where you have to lower temperatures by at least 25 in summer to make life bearable. I worried about the resources used and environmental cost. However, last winter we were in Paris for Christmas and it was freezing cold and I realised in Europe and other parts of the world you battle to increase temperatures by 25 C in winter to make life easier. So which is worse from environmental point of view. Perhaps, still Dubai as the temperature is more extreme for a longer period of time.


----------



## Wannaberich

^^Personally I have no problem with what they are going to do.Whats the big deal?I'm just thinking of the many jealous twats in the media who will
love this kind of news so they can criticise Dubai again.
Why dont they write about the 'green friendly' projects instead.


----------



## 234sale

I plan to be in Dubai Oct-April then May-Sep UK as I get older.


----------



## Smokeey

Some excellent info there High Times, thanks. I just cant believe some of the ridiculously high asking prices in the UK. Dubai Marina looks like a bargain in comparison.


----------



## Philippa C

Yes, there are some great green projects happening here now. We met some architects who won an environmental award for the design of their building in Dubailand - it's not built yet. They even took into consideration the deposits of sand on solar panels and how much is likely to be blown off the panels by studying the wind data for the site. Apparently, sand deposts on solar panels are a big drawback as it lessens the amount of energy the can generate. Bet we won't read that in the Sun!


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> *LONDON - UK*
> 
> Caspian Warf London E3 – 3 bedroom apartment
> Total floorspace	760 sqf
> Total selling price	AED 2.8
> Equivalent AED psf	3,684



760 sqf is a pretty small even for a 1 br apartment. 
How on earth do they squeeze in 3 brs in this size unit?


----------



## AltinD

Philippa C said:


> I don't wish to be a doom & gloom merchant - it was I who posted about the 2 mil people leaving! - but I can feel a slow down in Dubai. I booked the car for service yesterday and got a booking today. I did not realise there were 2 service centres so went to wrong one (!) but they were able to fit me in today. Previously, we had to book a service at least 3-4 days in advance. The service cen staff said things are very slow. I guess when money is tight, expenses like servicing the car, are one of the first expenses to be trimmed.
> 
> Also the traffic in Al Quoz was very light compared to traffic a few weeks ago.
> 
> On a positive note, for those who remain in Dubai the quality of life will improve as more infrastructure projects are completed and maybe the population falls a bit. Services and infrastructure have not been able to keep pace with the growth in population. So, as Dubai becomes a more pleasant place in which to live, more people will want to migrate here and the whole cycle will pick up again, hopefully.


Driving a Peugeot?


----------



## Imre

*Greetings from DEWA*,

Thank you for giving us this opportunity to explain to you the reason
you are being charged the housing fee.

The DM Fee is collected on a monthly basis by DEWA on behalf of Dubai
Municipality. An additional column of "Housing Fee" has been added in
your statement for the same.

DM provides housing Fee amount for each consumer to us, the details and
calculations of the same are mentioned below.

*DM Fee for rented premises is 5% of rented amount monthly.

Property owned by expatriates is 5% of 10% of the property price.*

Further Explained

If the value of a premises is Aed 500,000
10% is Aed 500,000 is equal to 50,000
5% Housing Fee of 50,000 us Aed 2,500 per annum.


Payment Options

Yearly payment at once
Payment in 12 monthly installments along with your monthly bills

Electricity and Water supplies will be liable for disconnection if the
Housing Fee is not settled.

Incase a consumer pays the Housing Fee directly to DM or through any
other channel, evidence (original receipt) must be presented.

For further information about Housing fees, may we suggest you contact
DM help lines,
800 900 (6digits only) or 04- 3072751.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

^^^^^^ hno:hno:hno:hno:hno:hno: ^^^^^^


----------



## Imre

Old Town Lovin... said:


> ^^^^^^ hno:hno:hno:hno:hno:hno: ^^^^^^


so we can say, property tax is 0.5%/year in Dubai :bash:


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Dont think this kind of publicity will do any favours for Dubai.
> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/expats/expats_news/article2037465.ece


Oh Shit, what will Dubai do without all the Sun readers it needs to attract to make the place viable. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

High Times, you the man...............nice to see some positive vibes. Those of us who are in for the long haul have nothing to worry about. Pass me another handful of happy pills :cheers:


----------



## Richard Head

Philippa C said:


> I don't wish to be a doom & gloom merchant - it was I who posted about the 2 mil people leaving! - but I can feel a slow down in Dubai. I booked the car for service yesterday and got a booking today. I did not realise there were 2 service centres so went to wrong one (!) but they were able to fit me in today. Previously, we had to book a service at least 3-4 days in advance. The service cen staff said things are very slow. I guess when money is tight, expenses like servicing the car, are one of the first expenses to be trimmed.
> 
> Also the traffic in Al Quoz was very light compared to traffic a few weeks ago.
> 
> On a positive note, for those who remain in Dubai the quality of life will improve as more infrastructure projects are completed and maybe the population falls a bit. Services and infrastructure have not been able to keep pace with the growth in population. So, as Dubai becomes a more pleasant place in which to live, more people will want to migrate here and the whole cycle will pick up again, hopefully.



Traffic is definitely quieter all around, but I think that's just the effect of many people taking the timing of Eid to bail out early for Xmas, especially a lot of mums with kids. My daughters class of 22 at Jess had 14 attending yesterday. Car servicing will get trimmed this time of year anyway, everyone's too busy shopping. Definitely no slowdown in any of the malls I can see.


----------



## Philippa C

AltinD said:


> Driving a Peugeot?


Ford, I'm doing my bit to save the US auto industry


----------



## Philippa C

Richard Head said:


> Traffic is definitely quieter all around, but I think that's just the effect of many people taking the timing of Eid to bail out early for Xmas, especially a lot of mums with kids. My daughters class of 22 at Jess had 14 attending yesterday. Car servicing will get trimmed this time of year anyway, everyone's too busy shopping. Definitely no slowdown in any of the malls I can see.


Yes, malls are still full. I hope I'm just reading too much into things :?


----------



## FWIW

from here: http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=1093224292

MIDDLE EAST AND AFRICA

Dubai is a great idea, superbly executed and publicized. But four factors militate against it just now:

• Gross rental yields have already fallen from 10% to 5% over the past 18 months, according to Global Property Guide research. Dubai property was undervalued 18 months ago, in fundamental terms. No longer.

• Many Dubai residents have lost a lot of money in the Indian or regional stock market crashes, or are feeling poorer as a result of the oil price falls.

• The luxury segment demand from Europe and America has been severely affected by the global credit crunch and the economic slowdown.

• Dubai is a trading centre, and will be impacted by the global downturn.

Dubai is a front-runner: whatever Dubai does, other countries in the Gulf will likely emulate. However, we believe that Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia are in a much stronger position, as there are severe housing shortages in all these locations.

Yields also continue to be spectacular in parts of Cairo, Egypt (12% in Maadi), strong inAmman, Jordan (around 8.5%) and in Morocco(Marrakesh apartments yield around 7%). The Guide believes these Middle East housing markets are relatively secure, for the moment.

Global Property Guide recommends investment in Cairo, Egypt although foreigners may encounter some difficulty acquiring property.


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> Oh Shit, what will Dubai do without all the Sun readers it needs to attract to make the place viable. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> :


Enough of that.Without Sun readers places like Ibiza and Benidorm wouldnt be the resorts they are !


----------



## hot4dubai

Imre said:


> *Greetings from DEWA*,
> 
> Thank you for giving us this opportunity to explain to you the reason
> you are being charged the housing fee.
> 
> The DM Fee is collected on a monthly basis by DEWA on behalf of Dubai
> Municipality. An additional column of "Housing Fee" has been added in
> your statement for the same.
> 
> DM provides housing Fee amount for each consumer to us, the details and
> calculations of the same are mentioned below.
> 
> *DM Fee for rented premises is 5% of rented amount monthly.
> 
> Property owned by expatriates is 5% of 10% of the property price.*
> 
> Further Explained
> 
> If the value of a premises is Aed 500,000
> 10% is Aed 500,000 is equal to 50,000
> 5% Housing Fee of 50,000 us Aed 2,500 per annum.
> 
> 
> Payment Options
> 
> Yearly payment at once
> Payment in 12 monthly installments along with your monthly bills
> 
> Electricity and Water supplies will be liable for disconnection if the
> Housing Fee is not settled.
> 
> Incase a consumer pays the Housing Fee directly to DM or through any
> other channel, evidence (original receipt) must be presented.
> 
> For further information about Housing fees, may we suggest you contact
> DM help lines,
> 800 900 (6digits only) or 04- 3072751.


^^^^ok I am seriously confused:

1) Is this a new fee and when was it introduced?

2) Who would pay...the landlord or tenent?

3) What is the property price? original price or current market value?

4) Are the DEWA rates still the same?

Thanks


----------



## Mistermark

FWIW said:


> from here: http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=1093224292
> 
> MIDDLE EAST AND AFRICA
> 
> Dubai is a great idea, superbly executed and publicized. But four factors militate against it just now:
> 
> • Gross rental yields have already fallen from 10% to 5% over the past 18 months, according to Global Property Guide research. Dubai property was undervalued 18 months ago, in fundamental terms. No longer.
> 
> • Many Dubai residents have lost a lot of money in the Indian or regional stock market crashes, or are feeling poorer as a result of the oil price falls.
> 
> • The luxury segment demand from Europe and America has been severely affected by the global credit crunch and the economic slowdown.
> 
> • Dubai is a trading centre, and will be impacted by the global downturn.
> 
> Dubai is a front-runner: whatever Dubai does, other countries in the Gulf will likely emulate. However, we believe that Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia are in a much stronger position, as there are severe housing shortages in all these locations.
> 
> Yields also continue to be spectacular in parts of Cairo, Egypt (12% in Maadi), strong inAmman, Jordan (around 8.5%) and in Morocco(Marrakesh apartments yield around 7%). The Guide believes these Middle East housing markets are relatively secure, for the moment.
> 
> Global Property Guide recommends investment in Cairo, Egypt although foreigners may encounter some difficulty acquiring property.


I agree with much of this, except that I don't believe rental yields have fallen to 5%. I have a studio in Lake Terrace that'd surely generate 85k right now, which was valued at the peak at 850k and may be worth less now. And I'm currently trying to sell a huge duplex in Goldcrest Views for 3.0m that's generating 250k and should get more than that on the next tenancy.


----------



## Imre

hot4dubai said:


> ^^^^ok I am seriously confused:


1) Is this a new fee and when was it introduced?

I got from October 2009, DEWA bill included this fee

2) Who would pay...the landlord or tenent?

I pay because I am the landlord tenant pays with the DEWA bill

3) What is the property price? original price or current market value?

Original price

4) Are the DEWA rates still the same?

still the same


----------



## London2Manila

Hey Supreme Ruler, I mean Smussw, he doesnt need to direct anything to me, as I was being humourous in my post. Now, go and arrest some British chavs on the beach or somthing! Really, do go arrest them, I don't want Dubai becoming the next costa sol!


----------



## kano

I wanted some explantion for the registration process. i just want to know if you have no mortgage do you get Title deeds ? I know you can register...but does that include the land department giving you Title deeds ?. Further the land Registration fee is 1% ..is there a charge for the title deeds on top of this?


----------



## koss

*NEWSWEEK*

The glitzy façade shows some cracks.
Christopher Dickey
NEWSWEEK

From the magazine issue dated Dec 15, 2008
In her classic account of World War I, Barbara Tuchman sets the scene for the passing of the prewar era with a vision of epochal pomp, the funeral of Britain's King Edward VII. Nine monarchs rode in the procession and the pageantry evoked "gasps of admiration," wrote Tuchman. But when
it was over, one British peer reflected that "all the old buoys which have marked the channel of our lives seem to have been swept away."
In Dubai last month, a very different kind of pageant was held, but if Tuchman were still around she'd have been taking notes. This triumph was billed as a world-beating blowout, a $20 million star-smacked extravaganza with the likes of Charlize Theron, Lindsay Lohan, Michael Jordan, and
Robert De Niro in attendance. The fireworks display was so enormous it could only truly be appreciated from the heavens (literally—it was visible from space). The occasion was the opening of the $1.5 billion Atlantis resort complex on an enormous artificial archipelago shaped like a palm
tree. The point of the party, its promoters explained, was to show the world that Dubai is a land of fantasies come true, an over-the-top destination for good times. But among many of the guests, the mood was funereal. As the fireworks exploded, the global economy was imploding. Many of
Dubai's overleveraged fortunes were crumbling, and no one was sure where to turn. The old buoys seemed to have been swept away.
"It's a tragedy in the making," said a senior executive with one of the city's biggest real-estatedevelopment
companies as he peered into his champagne. "A lot of people are going to get hurt. Alot of dreams are going to be shattered," he said, referring not only to the erstwhile rich and the speculators. Imported workers are already being exported, jobless, back to their homes.
Skyscrapers are standing unfinished, baking in the sun. "Have you seen all those ships lined up on the horizon?" he said, gesturing toward the open gulf. "They're stuck out there full of steel and
concrete nobody wants anymore."
While it may be an exaggeration to say that as goes Dubai, so goes globalization, it has become hard to imagine one without the other. More than any other place on earth, this city-state in the
United Arab Emirates is the creation of worldwide commerce, a specialty-built magnet for the kind of hot money that seeks the quickest, highest profits and then moves on when they disappear. A lot of that cash comes from nearby Arab oil powers, most notably the adjacent emirate of Abu Dhabi,
which has 90 percent of the UAE's crude. But many billions more have flowed in from Iran, India, China, Russia, Europe, the United States, and indeed just about every other corner of the world.
For the past decade at least, real-estate speculation has been the national sport. The price of houses and apartments, many not yet built, rose by 43 percent in the first quarter of this year alone. Mortgage money was easy to get and speculators commonly flipped properties for substantial
profits in a matter of weeks, sometimes even days, before the first monthly payments came due.
Everybody wanted in on the game. "Employees didn't focus on their work anymore," complains the
chairman of a regional transport company. "They all wanted to go buying property for 10 percent
down, if that." As of June, Dubai had 42 million square feet of office space under construction,
more than any other city in the world, even Shanghai. What was a flat desert 20 years ago is today
an urban canyon. Such is the frenzy that the Hard Rock Café, built among vacant lots in 1997, is
now surrounded by skyscrapers—and plans to tear it down for another high-rise are being debated
as if the Hard Rock were a heritage site.
But Dubai wasn't just a receiver of world capital. It was also an important global investor. In 2006,
its DP World acquired the management of six major U.S. container ports—until an explosion of
xenophobic protest in Congress made the deal politically untenable. Today, among many other
holdings, Dubai owns a 43 percent share in NASDAQ OMX and a 20.6 percent share in the London
Stock Exchange. Its wholly owned subsidiaries include Travelodge in Britain, Mauser in Germany,
and Barney's and Loehmann's in New York. By early 2005 the "liquidity gift," or windfall profit,
created by rapidly rising oil prices started to look like it would last, and Dubai's boom really picked
up steam. Some of the city's top financial officials started warning privately that a bubble was
forming and so sought to keep diversifying their holdings as widely as possible. But as oil prices
continued to climb, more and more fresh cash poured into Dubai's freewheeling economy and the
public started to feel protected from global shocks. Nobody was ready for the plunge in prices over
the past four months, which has taken oil down to less than a third of its price last summer. Dubai
turned out to be "insulated but not isolated," says Mary Nicola, an economist with Standard
Chartered Bank.
As with so much in the interconnected world economy, the ripple effects of the current crisis keep
spreading, exposing some of the more unpleasant facets of the Dubai dream. Layoffs, which have
already begun, will have an impact not just in Dubai but also in the working-class neighborhoods of
Manila and Mombasa and Thiruvananthapuram that sent their workers to the gulf. Thousands are
expected to leave when the holiday season is over, with little fanfare. The guest workers' invitations
can be revoked any time, so few complain—but bitterness is widespread. Meanwhile, prices for
houses and apartments still on the drawing board have dropped almost 50 percent in some areas,
mortgage money is simply frozen, and major projects are stalled or being scaled back. Rumors
abound that Dubai may have to sell a substantial stake in Emirates Airlines, the national carrier
that's vital to keeping it connected to the outside world. And in a business culture built on
inside dealing, the official denials of such a sale have had little credibility out on the street.
The sense of uncertainty and fear has grown so much that even in Dubai's famous gold souk, which
was a center of trade long before the word "globalization" was invented, there's now a pall of
confusion. "Not only are gold prices dropping," says Firoz Merchant, the owner of one of the shops.
"Everything is uncertain and moving in different directions." As if to underscore the gloomy mood,
last month the Dubai Marina suddenly started filling up with excrement. Apparently many buildings
in the city can only dispose of their wastewater by having it trucked to a treatment plant. But the
drivers got impatient with long lines and started pumping it into storm drains that led straight to the
sea.
In an effort to restore confidence just days after the Atlantis resort blowout, Dubai announced the
creation of an "advisory council" headed by Mohamed Alabbar, the chairman of Emaar Properties, which is building, among many other projects, the tallest skyscraper in the world in the heart of the city. Emaar's stock price, it is worth noting, has plummeted more than 80 percent this year, and the
sale price of luxury apartments in the hyper-high-rise has dropped by 40 percent.

"Here in Dubai we are realists, and we are also optimists," Alabbar told a forum at the Dubai International Financial Center on Nov. 24. To reassure his audience and the world he promised transparency, a rare concept in Dubai, and addressed the question of the emirate's debt, long rumored to be astronomical. Alabbar said the government and its many affiliated companies had obligations of $80 billion, but assets of $350 billion. "Let me therefore state categorically: the government can and will meet all its obligations going forward."
Such semi-official figures have never been made public before and their details have still not been divulged. So neither the liquidity of the assets nor the basis for their valuation is clear, and it's hard for analysts to judge just how realistic Alabbar's optimism is. "The important thing is not to focus on Dubai's assets and liabilities, it is about moving forward to rectify the situation," says Mushtaq Khan, an economist at Citigroup who authored a recent report on the Gulf.

If there is good news, it's that Dubai's leaders were quick to take some corrective measures in the earlier stages of the crisis. In September and October, the Central Bank implemented a $32.7 billion plan to support the country's financial institutions. Alabbar announced last month that the two main home-mortgage lenders, which had run out of money, would in effect be nationalized. And he promised that the three largest developers in Dubai, which control about 70 percent of the supply on the real-estate market, would work together to keep it under control. The crash of the moment
is really "a healthy correction," he said. Perhaps. Certainly many Dubai residents say they'd like a chance to catch their breath, and there
are ample signs the city needs to catch up with itself. Just 50 years ago, the place was a dusty outpost of a few thousand people on a forgotten corner of the Arabian Peninsula. Forty years ago, one of its biggest businesses was smuggling gold to India. After British forces withdrew in the early
1970s from what were called the Trucial States, the seven local sheikhdoms became the United Arab Emirates. Abu Dhabi had the greatest share of wealth because it had by far the greatest share of oil. But Dubai had entrepreneurial spirit. 

In the 1980s, under Sheik Rashid bin Saeed Al Maktoum and then his son Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Dubai developed its enormous free port—even as Iran and Iraq fought a war on the horizon. Golf courses that were kept green with millions of gallons of desalinated water
started changing the landscape, and by the 1990s, Dubai was building landmark resorts like the sail-shaped Burj Al Arab Hotel. It also started cashing in on new technologies with special Internet and media "cities" built to make it as important a hub for communications as it was for shipping and
air traffic. In just five years, from 1995 to 2000, Dubai's population grew 25 percent, and now stands at about 1.6 million people. The vast majority are expatriates coming to work at every level of society, from menial labor to senior management. In 2007, the Emirates as a whole counted only
864,000 citizens, compared with 3.6 million foreign workers. "While infrastructure development was rapid, the number of expats flocking to the city overwhelmed it," says Citigroup's Khan.
But even if Dubai needs an enforced breather, it's not likely to get through the downturn unscathed.
Abu Dhabi, after many years of quietly helping to fund Dubai's growth and watching Dubai develop a reputation for innovation and excitement, is now looking to take a bigger share of the action. "A formal statement is unlikely," says Khan, "but strategic assistance from Abu Dhabi is likely." And so
is increasing control. Abu Dhabi dominates the UAE's federal government and last week the federal constitution was pointedly amended to bar the prime minister (Dubai's Sheik Mohammed), his
deputies and federal ministers from "any professional or commercial job" and to prohibit them from any business transactions with the federal or local governments. How this can be enforced is an open question—to a large extent, Dubai is Mohammed Al Maktoum—but the message was clear
enough: Abu Dhabi is now in charge.
Meanwhile, the Emirates are literally taking some time off, first for Muslim holidays and then for Christmas. Few big new initiatives are likely to be announced before the beginning of the year, if then. But the cracks continue to show. Take the new Atlantis resort, for example. It is a joint project
between South African developer Sol Kerzner's group and Nakheel, the Dubai development company that built the Palm Jumeirah island and other even more extravagant real-estate follies up and down the coast. Days after the grand opening, Nakheel announced it was laying off 500 people, or
roughly 15 percent of its global workforce. "The people with Nakheel spend $20 million on fireworks and don't have money to pay their own people," says a Lebanese businessman with extensive interests in Dubai. "It's a disaster."
Meanwhile, even the rich are feeling the pinch. Last week the owner of a Mediterranean-style villa on one of the Palm Jumeirah's beachy fronds facing the Atlantis dropped his asking price from $4.9 million to $3.6 million and then $3.13 million, and offered to throw in his Bentley as well. "Our
client has his money stuck in the markets and he desperately needed it to run his business," says real estate agent Anthony Jerish. "Still, nobody bought it. Maybe we will sell the Bentley separately.
I don't know." No, this isn't the old Dubai at all.
With Vivian Salama In Dubai and Nick Summers in New York

URL: http://www.newsweek.com/id/172641


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## Raza01

Looks like whole world is Jealous to Dubai. :lol:


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## Imre

London2Manila said:


> Why not just say .5% then ?



just got today:


*Season's Greetings from DEWA*,

We thank you for your email.
May we please state all expatriate residents, irrespective tenant or
the owners, are charged the housing fee. However, there remain varied
options to settle the housing fee, which are:
· Pay directly on yearly basis to the Dubai Municipality /
Economic Department,
· Pay on yearly basis to DEWA,
· Pay on monthly basis to DEWA,

Kindly be advised that the methodology of computing the fee amount
differs: tenants pay 5% of their annual rental value as a year's housing
fee and *owners (who reside in their properties) pay 0.5% of the original
property price as a year's housing fee. *Hence, there is no ambiguity in
charging you this fee, as the same is line with the government
directive.

As explained above, we shall not endeavor in reversing the billed
housing fee nor are we to discontinue it being charged in future.

Best regards,
Customer Care Center (CCC)| DEWA

:cheers::banana::cheers::banana:


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## Wannaberich

Another gloomy report on Dubai this time by newsweek.
Errr,wait a minute,am I right in saying the rest of the world is f...d up at the moment too?
Someone please remind them.


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## Dubai_Steve

Maybe you should throw your shoes at them.


----------



## The Cebuano Exultor

*@ Raza01*



> Looks like whole world is Jealous to Dubai. :lol:


^^ Are you kidding.

Well yeah, while Dubai had its time in the sun, the world looked at it with awe and, of course, jealousy.

Heck, the iconic developments of the Burj Al-Arab, The Palm Jumeirah, and The World inspired a ton of other cities all across Asia to undertake similar developments.

But, I mean come on! You people must realize that the very reason why Newsweek--a respectable news source in my book--wrote the article is that Dubai was the fullest and best example of an economic system driven by speculation and credit. Dubai's economic model was literally patterned after America's--the very economy which single-handedly reversed the fortunes of the world's economy these past few months.


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## Jodel

*Registration of Title docs.*

Hi Kano
How are you? Are you currently in residence in Dubai?
We applied for our land registry in about the middle of May at the, then, new DP offices in Internet City. Took a managers chq.(Bankers Draft) for EXACTLY 1% of Original purchase price + 370 dhs made payable to Dubai Land Dept. was given receipt and told come back in 20 days. We got a call about 10 days later to say it was ready!
V. interesting doc.(compared to UK land registry) Just a single sheet with gold edging with text in English and Arabic plus a photocopied A4 sheet of the amounts paid in Arabic.
When you apply you must have the usual suspects - p/port,certificate of record etc
Hope this helps pm if you need more info
regards Jo.

Sorry forgot to say we have no mortgage(thank goodness)


QUOTE=kano;29458934]I wanted some explantion for the registration process. i just want to know if you have no mortgage do you get Title deeds ? I know you can register...but does that include the land department giving you Title deeds ?. Further the land Registration fee is 1% ..is there a charge for the title deeds on top of this?[/QUOTE]


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## Dubai_Steve

*Citi Voices Upbeat View on Dubai*

With questions about Dubai's looming debt obligations swirling, Citigroup Inc. said it had raised $8 billion for the Persian Gulf city-state over the course of the past year and still had a positive outlook on its economy.

Citigroup Chairman Win Bischoff was quoted in the bank's statement Monday as saying *Citigroup continues to see Dubai as among its "most significant markets."*

"This is in line with our commitment to the [United Arab Emirates] market in general, and reflects our positive outlook on Dubai in particular," the statement quoted Mr. Bischoff as saying.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122938868288709017.html?mod=googlenews_wsj


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## Hanna

*Ajman visa*

Same guarantee Dubai gave us (and what happended to it) after years of promises and sales someone in the Government popped up and said BTW you developers are not allowed to tell buyers they will get a residence visa 'err' we forgot to tell you that years ago, but hey we have done it now and everything is ok now suckers ! aye right there was no intention of giving a visa from day one.
And what has happened since they turned us all over !


The Ajman Government is stepping up measures to closely regulate the real estate buyers' profile in the emirate by temporarily stopping issuance of residence visas, developers told Emirates Business.

"We do understand the government is not issuing residence visas. However, there is no official statement from the Ajman government," said Khurram Wahid, Director of Chapal World.

Indiana Real Estate, the real estate agent for developer Modern Life Properties, confirmed that the Ajman government has temporarily stopped issuance of residence visas.

"As far as we are aware this is only a temporary move and the government will commence the issuance of the visas by the first quarter of 2009," said Rajesh Krishna, Managing Director for Indiana Real Estate.

Osama Kalyar, Chief Operating Officer of Gold Crest Properties said: "This is a federal issue and I am sure the government will look to issue residence visas by early next year. The government is currently looking to align the visas that have been already issued and as well monitor the issuance of new visas in the coming years.

"Many units have been resold to somebody, however the visas have not been transferred. Hence the government is looking to align the whole process."

However, Wahid believes stopping issuance of residence visas to buyers in Ajman would dampen investors' interest in the long term.

"Ajman was the only emirate guaranteeing visas for realty buyers after Dubai stopped issuing visas for its property buyers. If that clause is removed it will remove the trust from the market," he added.

In August, Emirates Business reported master developers in Dubai had removed the clause that guarantees a residence visa for property buyers from contracts they enter into with sub-developers. Ajman was the only emirate that was guaranteeing residence visa.

This newspaper reported earlier that Ajman was planning to establish a real estate regulatory body, which will be similar to Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority, in the first quarter of 2009.

In June this year, the Ajman Government issued Emiri Decree No7 and No8 to regulate the emirate's land and properties sector. The government will, however, enforce the escrow account law by first quarter of next year with the new agency ensuring implementation of the law.


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## HappyLarry

Picked this up from GulfNews Properties section.

DIFC, Liberty House, 926 sq. ft., DIFC-OF-LH002, 4th flr. AED 4,504,968. Call Commercial Sales

I have some questions I hope someone can answer;
Doesn't this look like a 1-bed being pushed as an office? If so, is this allowed?

Price psf is about 5000AED. Wow! How realistic is that?
:cheers:


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## London2Manila

I see the same thing in England. People putting property on for ridicolous figures. 
I don't know why the agents do it. Who cares if you get an instruction, if the property will never sell ?

Unless DIFC is some amazing amazing place I think a million quid for a 900 sq ft flat is nonsense.


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## THEPOINT

Bobby G said:


> What are you talking about being thankful that they dont have to pay 10% of what they should be paying mate?
> 
> Thats the deluded the thoughts of some locals in this country. The fact and the matter is expats, as you put them, have been key to the development of this city and country for the past 30 years. Respect should be mutual. No one has done any of the expatriates favors. They have invested their money here, and they have gotten the industries to this point. Its a joint effort.
> 
> Without them this country would fall on its face, very simply overnight.
> 
> Expats in other countries pay their dues too, but eventually they are recognized as citizens, very simply. That doesnt happen here, so its a trade-off. Whose the winner? I dont think there are, but rather at the moment its a mutually beneficial relationship, but its fading a bit.


Well said Bobby G


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## Dubai_Steve

*Iranians hit by Dubai property slide*

Habib Mostofi is one of thousands of Iranians who believed buying property in Dubai would be safer than Iran, isolated by the West over its disputed nuclear plans. But that was before the emirate's property bubble burst.

"I invested all my family savings in property in Dubai. I thought it was near Iran, politically safe and business- friendly," the 43-year-old businessman told Reuters. "How can I tell my family I was so wrong and lost the money?"

The economy of the United Arab Emirates, the world's fifth-largest oil exporter, has surged 50 percent in real terms since 2004, but the tide has turned as slumping oil prices and a global financial meltdown put an end to Dubai's property boom.

In recent years Iranians -- as well as others from Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan and Lebanon -- have flocked to Dubai, the Gulf trading hub where construction cranes litter the skyline. For Iranians it was a haven from sanctions over the nuclear work the West says is to make bombs. Tehran denies this.

Many Western banks and export credit agencies have quit Iran and Iranian executives face increasing difficulty opening letters of credit, vital for trade, with an Iranian address.

Some opened Dubai offices to avoid that problem, while others just saw Dubai's property boom as a surefire earner.

At the height of the real estate bonanza, mortgages were easy and property could be sold for profit even before construction was finished -- a practice known as "flipping."

Reza Dabir-Alai, a businessman, 39, bought several apartments that together measured 1,541 square metres in Dubai.

"Substantial profits could be earned in a matter of days, sometimes even hours immediately after buying a property," Dabir-Alai said, adding after signing a deal for one apartment he was offered 2 percent more as he left the real estate agent.

PROJECTS ON HOLD

Then the financial crisis began lapping on the beaches of Dubai's many manmade islands. Rows of apartment blocks and exclusive villas have lost their value, as banks have reined in lending, casting a pall over corporate finance and construction.

"I cannot sell these apartments ... and I cannot cancel the contracts," said Dabir-Alai.

Shahnaz Mirsoufi, an Iranian real estate agent based in Dubai, said prices of villas and apartments in Dubai, on average, doubled since early January in 2007 but now some premier property prices have dropped as much as 50 percent.

"Even in the first quarter of the year, the price of villas and flats, many not yet built, rose by 43 percent," she said.

Analysts in a Reuters survey this month said Dubai property prices would fall 28 percent from a peak earlier this year.

Hamid Sardari, an Iranian businessman, said he was "penniless" and feared for his shipping company.

"My money that I need to run my business is stuck in Dubai property," he said. "I will be bankrupted soon."

Now some developers have put projects on hold after Dubai's real estate regulator urged developers to slow down, saying worsening financial conditions were driving up defaults.

FINANCIAL RUIN

Many foreigners were also attracted by a former promise that owning a property would secure them long-term Dubai residency rights. But Dubai's property regulator this year scrapped such a guarantee.

That spelt financial ruin for computer engineer Mohammad Reza Nouri: no visa, no job in Dubai and not enough salary from his Tehran work to pay off his UAE loan.

"My aim was to get a residence permit in Dubai. Now I cannot get the permit and I cannot pay the apartment's monthly instalments," he said after investing $50,000 (32,000 pounds) of his savings.

Concern about the speculation even prompted a public warning from Iran's ambassador to the United Arab Emirates in November.

"I call on Iranians to avoid buying properties in Dubai. For those who want to make profit or get a residence permit, none of those is possible," Hamid Reza Asefi told state radio.

Selling up is not always an option.

Mina Vakili, a divorcee, said she could not sell an 80 square metre apartment she bought off plan.

"I wanted to profit from my Dubai apartment to buy one in Tehran," she said. "But now, it is not clear when the project will even be finished."

http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2008/12/17/africa/OUKWD-UK-IRAN-DUBAI-PROPERTY-feature.php


----------



## aviduser

The newsweek article isn't a bad stab at giving a fair reflection of what is going on here. 

The part that caught my eye and is a great example of just how stupid things have become is the amount of office space being built. If that figure doesn't make you stand back and scratch your head and think "hang on a minute" nothing will.


----------



## OP1

Hi,

I am new to the forum though I have been reading the posts before registering. 

I am very bullish about the property market in Dubai for the long term. 

Those investors / end-users with cash / approved mortgage should definitely not panic looking at the present conditions. It is a boom-bust cycle that every property market has to go through to become more mature & sustainable. 

Speculators or those who were not able to get their mortgage approved before the banks tightened their lending, are the worst affected. However, maybe (& this is not based on any facts, just an optimistic feeling), in the new year banks might change their policies re. mortgages in favour of the buyers, so hold on at least till then.


----------



## Mavekris

*One More Sad News*

Al Shafar General Contracting is reportedly cutting up to 1,000 staff, following project delays and suspensions. 

The contracting company’s CEO Bishoy Azmy said reduced monthly income from clients struggling to make payments had given management no option but to shed staff, Emirates Business reported on Wednesday. 

“The figure [redundancies] will stand between 500 and 1,000 and will take some time to come into effect,” Azmy is quoted as saying. He added that several projects under negotiation had been halted as developers review their ongoing and future assignments amid the economic crisis. 

Staff on probation will be some of the first to leave, according to Azmy. He also said underperforming employees would be made redundant. 

Azmy last week confirmed to Arabian Business that Al Shafar is scaling down its 2009 expansion plans after negotiations for contracts worth “billions of dirhams” were cancelled. 

ASGC’s current order book was valued at six billion dirhams ($1.6 billion), involving contracts in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, Azmy told Arabian Business.

“Most of the new projects we were in the final stage of negotiations with clients over have now been stopped in terms of awarding them to contractors,” he said.

“This seems more and more like an unreality and we are curtailing our expansion and matching our expansion to meet demand.”


----------



## Arno Salzl

Dubai_Steve said:


> Habib Mostofi is one of thousands of Iranians who believed buying property in Dubai would be safer than Iran, isolated by the West over its disputed nuclear plans. But that was before the emirate's property bubble burst.
> http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2008/12/17/africa/OUKWD-UK-IRAN-DUBAI-PROPERTY-feature.php


No sorry, these flippers from abroad came for a quick buck. And we have to live with traffic jams, hundreds of cranes, overprized housing and very soon with horrible partly-built towers.

Current crisis is only good for Dubai and its people.


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## Wannaberich

Anyone recommend a couple of good small/medium sized real estate companies to list a property with?Not sure the big companies are worth it.They seem to list the property then forget about it having so many on their books.


----------



## IISinbadII

Salem75 said:


> I'm Emirati but my family have invested in Dubai alot before I have project in Dubai Marina and JLT as well there all rented since we believe in the true value of rental income for many years to come


Any idea about the % of Dubai freehold property owned by Emirati nationals?


----------



## Arno Salzl

peacesells said:


> Thanks Wannaberich.
> 
> Let me know if you want to hear my take on Ajman property and why the Dubai government is to be partially blamed for the state of the market


Thank you for you insider's opinion. Confirms actually what's been written here many times. I guess you have a very pessimistic view about what is happening in Ajman. But what do you think about RAK?


----------



## nri-hotels

peacesells said:


> What are your sources for this? Even the harshest opponents of peak oil agree that the amount is known to fairly accurate degree and that the real debate is WHEN rather than IF. I was unfortunate enough to pick up this book not so long ago:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Barrel..._sr_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229609289&sr=8-11
> 
> Basically, the author is a peak-oil-is-myth guy but the whole book basically shows that his only argument against peak oil is that it's not possible to determine when it will happen NOT because we don't know how much oil there is (he actually dedicates several pages on this subject and shows that we do know this).



I do agree of course that oil is finite although i am a bit unconvinced about the question of When. The thing is demand for crude oil might actually have reversed irrevocably since June, and the world may have already shifted its demand towards alternative sources. This is why i think crude oil will not run out in our lifetime, because the demand for it would diminishing quickly, while demand for alternative sources will increase. So then the price of oil will be in a limited range, probably forever.

What i said was Peak Oil is a theory based on available knowledge of viable supply of oil in the world. BUT that theory was proposed with supply information in the 1970s. The bell curve mentioned therein was based on supply from a few worldwide sources like Saudi etc. Since then there has been massive leaps in oil-drilling technology, more countries finding more oil and Russia has opened up their huge country for private drilling since 10 years, as opposed to the Soviet Union back in the 70s. This would mean that the bell curve would have to be stretched for quite a few more years.


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## nri-hotels

Arno Salzl said:


> Thank you for you insider's opinion. Confirms actually what's been written here many times. I guess you have a very pessimistic view about what is happening in Ajman. But what do you think about RAK?


Looking back it cracks me up to see that TV ad with Omar Sharif pitching Ajman properties like it was a once in a lifetime opportunity.


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## Wannaberich

Is it wrong to suggest Dubai should try to encourage people to retire there?
After all,there are alot of retired people with alot of money who would be property cash buyers?


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## smussuw

^^ yes it is wrong because it contradicts with the main pillars this country was founded on.


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## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> ^^ yes it is wrong because it contradicts with the main pillars this country was founded on.


which are?


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## Mistermark

nri-hotels said:


> one thing is for sure the amount of CO2 that human activity is contributing is climbing (not reducing). I suppose one good thing about a recession is that CO2 levels might drop as a result.


Personally I think the only way to reduce human CO2 output is to limit the population. OK, rich countries can do a certain amount to promote 'renewable' forms of energy generation, mainly to salve their consciences, but these sources are unlikely in the foreseeable future to support 7+ billion people, even if they were affordable. Massive investment in nuclear might work, but that's quite a legacy for future generations to have to deal with.

The trouble is, even to stabilise population numbers now would require steps that no democratically elected politician will dare propose and few dictators could impose by force.


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## smussuw

Wannaberich said:


> which are?


The existence of foreigners and expatriates is based on the lack of skilled Emiratis. In this regard, attracting them to retire doesn't make sense.


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## nri-hotels

smussuw said:


> The existence of foreigners and expatriates is based on the lack of skilled Emiratis. In this regard, attracting them to retire doesn't make sense.


Retirees look for safety, security and good medical care.. If that is available in Dubai without restrictions then people could consider retiring there.


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## nri-hotels

Mistermark said:


> Personally I think the only way to reduce human CO2 output is to limit the population. OK, rich countries can do a certain amount to promote 'renewable' forms of energy generation, mainly to salve their consciences, but these sources are unlikely in the foreseeable future to support 7+ billion people, even if they were affordable. Massive investment in nuclear might work, but that's quite a legacy for future generations to have to deal with.
> 
> The trouble is, even to stabilise population numbers now would require steps that no democratically elected politician will dare propose and few dictators could impose by force.


Well China succeeded in the one child policy back in the 70s, and they are still has the most population. The climate would be destroyed if there was another economic boom like we had this year, unless massive effort is made towards using RE. I figure we got about 10 years to proove that.

Population growth is ok provided we assume good environmental habits, like becoming vegetarian, and travelling and working less.


----------



## nisha

Mistermark said:


> I think the original suggestion was to borrow against property in countries where interest rates are currently low (for instance, the UK and Eurozone) to buy property in Dubai, where yields are much higher. My UK mortgage is now 2.24%, while my lowest-yielding Dubai property is 8.3%...


Right, and which idiotic bank in any country is going to lend you to buy property in Dubai?


----------



## nri-hotels

nisha said:


> Right, and which idiotic bank in any country is going to lend you to buy property in Dubai?


Speaking of low rates.... i was thinking why not borrow US dollars at todays low rates and use it to buy Gulf Currencies which have higher fixed deposit rates. There is a good yield of about 4% while no currency risk due to US peg.


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> The existence of foreigners and expatriates is based on the lack of skilled Emiratis. In this regard, attracting them to retire doesn't make sense.


It does if they inject lots of money into the Dubai economy.


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> The existence of foreigners and expatriates is based on the lack of skilled Emiratis...


^^ How much skill is needed to cook, clean or drive a car?


----------



## Philippa C

smussuw said:


> The existence of foreigners and expatriates is based on the lack of skilled Emiratis. In this regard, attracting them to retire doesn't make sense.


But retired people would not take the jobs of Emiratis. Older people who could afford to retire here would have to be fairly well off and would inject cash into the economy. They would not be a burden on the state's health systems if medical insurance was mandatory.


----------



## High Times

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ How much skill is needed to cook, clean or drive a car?


All at the same time. :eek2:


----------



## nisha

nri-hotels said:


> Speaking of low rates.... i was thinking why not borrow US dollars at todays low rates and use it to buy Gulf Currencies which have higher fixed deposit rates. There is a good yield of about 4% while no currency risk due to US peg.


Good in theory but not in practice -Banks here will not lend US$ to individuals...


----------



## Monument

*The result of rent control*

This is always the impact of rent control anywhere in thw world. Endless empty apartments with landlords unwilling to rent and directly causing rents to increase due to scarcity.

http://www.xpress4me.com/news/uae/dubai/20011039.html

Taking off the rental caps and the three year minimum term would encourage landlords to rent and, most likely, bring rent prices down!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What about tourism? I thought Dubai could not stand on its own 2 feet without that.


----------



## High Times

What unfolds in Dubai over the next 12 months will seperate the cream from the crap in terms of location.

The great locations will hold up well. The overrated, overpriced hype will fall like a stone. When there is more supply than demand and it swings to buyers/renters market people will demand more bang for their buck.

This is where the old cliche becomes fact.

*Location, Location, Location.*


----------



## Garden city

High Times said:


> It is impossible to predict the rock bottom of any market that’s a fact.
> 
> It is much easier to spot an overheating market and a market that is not based on sound fundamentals. I have no crystal ball but I know when I can see a market being driven by hysteria.
> 
> Saw it in late 80's in the UK housing market.
> Saw it in late 90's tech stock boom.
> Saw it in 2000 - 2006 UK property boom.
> Saw it in 2007/8 Dubai off plan rush.
> 
> For me personally as I have already quoted back in July, anyone paying anything over AED 2000 psf for an off plan property that wont be complete for 3 years + is insane.
> 
> I believe that the base price for Dubai property is AED 1000 psf. That’s not to say that prices will go down to that level. I just see that as a safe zone to invest for the medium term (3-5 years), so that’s as near as I am prepared to call a "bottom" as such. Just like I believe that investing in UK stocks the "bottom" is between 3500 - 4000 points for the FTSE 100. Investing at this level with a 3-5 year horizon you wont go wrong in my view.
> 
> The only "fools" that will get burned in this mess are the speculators who thought that Real Estate in Dubai was a one way street.
> 
> It doesn’t take a genius to work out that you shouldn't be paying more for an off plan apartment that wont be ready for 4 years than you can buy one that’s ready now. That was the fundamental signal to me that something was wrong, very wrong indeed.
> 
> As far as the question how long will all this last, the answer is dependent on a number of factors. Before Dubai real estate can begin a new cycle of growth we need the following key factors to happen.
> 
> 1- US recovery from recession.
> 2- Oil prices rising
> 3- Dollar weakening significantly
> 4- Global liquidity to return
> 
> My window for 1-3 (they are all linked and will be simultaneous to a degree) is Sept 2009 - March 2010 (Optimistically)
> For number 4 it will be about 6 months after 1-3.
> 
> In 2009 we have the following factors to deal with;
> 
> 1- Investors defaulting on payment plans
> 2- Developers reselling defaulted units at discounts to claw back funds
> 3- Non Dollar investors selling at discounted prices psf to benefit from currency exchange
> 4- People selling at no profit or even losses to de-leverage
> 5- Developers cancelling projects due to lack of funding
> 6- Empty units being made available to rent as investors refuse to sell in the current climate
> 
> So it’s gonna get real interesting in my view.
> 
> For those people who have invested in Dubai for the longer term 5 years + then this will be good for the market in general as it will reduce the total amount of crap that would have been built if this ridiculous situation was allowed to continue.
> 
> So sit back, relax, and watch all the amateurs panic.


:applause:

I feel so happy reading this post and the last few posts by peacsells.Happy because people like HT and peacesells are keeping their emotions aside when writing their posts and that brings the entire disussion to a different level.We know things are wrong in Dubai and there is no need to cover all that up my making extremely positive statments. Being an industry insider i truly echo peacsells statements and i know for certain that things are not going to get fixed anytime soon. So people in this forum who are predicting some new rules which would come in early 2009 and would improve the market are simply hallucinating.

HT, I would like to add on more point to your list.

1- US recovery from recession.
2- Oil prices rising
3- Dollar weakening significantly
4- Global liquidity to return
>>5 - Employers in Dubai stop downsizing.

Downsizing is currently a major problem and some of the real estate companies have already reached the stage where they need to fire senior staff as junior workforce has already been trimmed to some extent. People who are being downsized are very likely to default on their loans and mortgages which would snowball into a major problem in months to come.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

Imre said:


> asked the DEWA about some discount of the DM Housing Fee if I pay once a year, here is the answer:
> 
> "Season's Greetings from DEWA,
> 
> We thank you for reverting. May we please advice that there is no
> reduction of the fee: it is all the same.
> 
> Best regards,
> Customer Care Center (CCC)| DEWA"
> 
> thats all , so I must pay


I havent gotten this notice... In fact, I havent gotten a bill for 3 months... :banana:


----------



## smussuw

docc said:


> I actually don't like the Springs at all. Some of them are tiny matchboxes and how people are paying upwards of 150k rent for these are beyond my understanding!
> 
> Meadows/Hattan/Hills might be a better fit for Emirati's, don't you think? Do you want to buy them as an investment or for yourself?


I really didn't think thoroughly about it. This is just an idea that passed my mind.

If buying a house in one of those projects will cost the same as building one then why not. It will never be a permanent home for me though. Maybe living there for some time then renting it out and moving to a more suitable place for an Emirati.

After the crisis we will really know how exaggerated the prices are, only then I wouldn't feel sorry buying more expensive properties considering that we can be certain about how much they are really worth .........


----------



## smussuw

Sale

S Month Total Lands Total Worth 
1 January 417 4,876,284,278 
2 Februaery 512 8,093,142,232 
3 March 559 5,442,528,691 
4 April 863 8,310,441,554 
5 May 793 11,608,690,746 
6 June 671 8,473,557,333 
7 July 575 6,805,966,994 
8 August 383 4,719,102,140 
9 September 325 5,168,360,474 
10 October 320 2,533,965,972 
11 November 259 2,305,648,670 
12 December 55 553,793,827 

Mortgage

S Month Total Lands Total Worth 
1 January 184 3,895,901,906 
2 Februaery 241 10,832,968,742 
3 March 234 5,511,463,468 
4 April 277 8,271,196,876 
5 May 399 18,431,963,213 
6 June 468 7,758,760,762 
7 July 380 29,440,343,602 
8 August 262 2,787,869,353 
9 September 350 19,200,727,745 
10 October 319 2,868,339,123 
11 November 195 2,800,659,126 
12 December 102 1,451,907,249


----------



## smussuw

The fourth quarter comparing to the previous years ......


----------



## jamjaruk

docc said:


> A friend (Britisher) was here sometime back and he mentioned that Springs kinda reflected what the average home in the UK is like. Is that true (question to those from the UK)?


At peak the average price for a 4 bedroom in London was £430,000. But the average has fallen to £399,999. Expecting the price to fall by a further £60,000 or so...

How much can you buy a 4 bed villa in the Springs??


----------



## docc

^^ I was talking about the area of the house and not the price.

Price wise, i think a 4 BR should be in the range of AED 4M. Again, there are plenty of variables such as location, total size, plot size etc which add to the price.


----------



## hot4dubai

docc said:


> ^^ I was talking about the area of the house and not the price.
> 
> Price wise, i think a 4 BR should be in the range of AED 4M. Again, there are plenty of variables such as location, total size, plot size etc which add to the price.


^^Hey Doc, yes those houses do resemble some of the suburbs in England where all the houses are really close together and identical. I can see exactly what your friend means!! It reminds me of those areas in England where everyone knows everyone and it becomes quite a close-knit community.


----------



## docc

^^ Community feeling is nice, but the idea of paying high prices for match box size rooms just isn't palatable.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ or the stupid dog who decides that i may be a postman and chases me around the block?


----------



## hot4dubai

docc said:


> ^^ Community feeling is nice, but the idea of paying high prices for match box size rooms just isn't palatable.


^^True, personally they are just to close together for my liking and really boring looking. I much prefer to have my privacy without the neighbourhood gossip on my doorstep!


----------



## docc

rexdmx said:


> ^^ or the stupid dog who decides that i may be a postman and chases me around the block?




Does that really happen? I thought that was meant just for the cartoons :lol:


----------



## legal eagle

*loco*



docc said:


> ^^ Community feeling is nice, but the idea of paying high prices for match box size rooms just isn't palatable.


But Docc... its virtually irrelelavant about the building.

Its location that is determining the price.


----------



## legal eagle

*BBQ*

Don;t sell the steak, sell the sizzle....mmm....


----------



## nisha

This makes for nervous reading...I'd rather see news of falling prices than read about a frozen markethno:


Property bargains fail to sell

Robert Ditcham

* Last Updated: December 20. 2008 4:29PM UAE / December 20. 2008 12:29PM GMT

The estate agents Engel and Volkers held a cut-price home sale in Dubai, but report that not one property changed hands. Courtesy Engel and Volkers

A Dubai-based estate agent slashed millions of dirhams from the value of homes in a 12-hour sell-off, but not one of the properties changed hands.

Last week, the Marina franchise of the international estate agency Engel and Volkers held what it called “the largest discounted sale of completed properties in Dubai” to breathe some life into its local business.

But the result was a sign of just how far the property market has reversed since the summer.

More than 150 homes in some of Dubai’s most exclusive addresses, including Emirates Hills, The Marina and the Palm Jumeirah, had a combined Dh175 million (US$48m) knocked off their original listing prices.

The company said it made contact with dozens of potential clients, many of whom indicated they would attend similar sell-offs in the future, but failed to sell any properties during the event.

“It was unfortunate, but it proves just how tough the market is at the moment. A lot of people were scared that prices would drop more,” said Harriet Killen, the office manager of Engel and Volkers’s Marina office, who added that December was traditionally a weak sales month since many residents left the country on holiday.

The situation was in stark contrast to scenes at this summer’s Abu Dhabi Cityscape Exhibition, when hundreds of investors queued for hours in the hope of putting their names down for properties.

“The market has been slow recently so we had to be active in generating some direct sales and some urgency,” said Ms Killen.

The company had urged sellers to drop their prices for a day to stimulate interest among potential buyers, knocking off between Dh500,000 and Dh1m from the prices of many properties.

A large number of the current owners of the discounted properties are making payments on assets that are sinking in value.

Many in their position have sold their homes to ease cash flow problems or to re-invest in other markets.

Most have already witnessed a huge appreciation in their homes since they first bought them and are generally content to take a hit on their margins.

During the event last Saturday, prospective buyers were invited to a 12-hour sell-off starting at 9.30am in which the public could meet the company’s sales and leasing agents. A local mortgage company was also on hand to arrange financing for potential clients.

Obtaining a mortgage is another stumbling block for would-be buyers. Banks and finance houses have tightened their lending criteria as the worldwide credit crisis deepens.

One lender, Amlak, has suspended new loan applications and others are demanding larger deposits.

Estate agents have said the shifting property market might have a positive effect, “cleansing” the business and raising standards in the industry.

There have already been hundreds of redundancies among brokerages and property developers, in some cases predominately support staff.

Quaid Abbas, an executive property consultant at the Sheikh Zayed Road branch of Engel and Volkers, described a typical discounted property as a villa in Arabian Ranches that sold initially for Dh2.5m, reached Dh7m as the market gained, and advertised for Dh6m in today’s market.

“We’re getting more listings than buyers. More people are selling than buying. Buyers are looking for a very good bargain and we cannot always meet their expectations. In their minds they want to buy at less than half of what it was.”

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081220/NATIONAL/382121011/0/FRONTPAGE


----------



## laidback74

First the sellers were greedy, now the buyers are greedy. Doesn't anyone believe in fair value anymore ?


----------



## smussuw

^^ It didn't even start yet :happy:


----------



## mackie1964

^^ You need to start thinking about your new signature Smussuw. From what I hear, you will be looking for a job in Abu Dhabi soon........If it goes really bad, you will not like the outcome. :cheers:


----------



## smussuw

^^ The last thing Dubai would do is sacrifice its governments employees and especially the ones working in the police force. I didn't like the outcome in the boom so I don't think that the outcome will be that bad in the crisis :tongue2:


----------



## Tom_Green

mackie1964 said:


> ^^ You need to start thinking about your new signature Smussuw. From what I hear, you will be looking for a job in Abu Dhabi soon........If it goes really bad, you will not like the outcome. :cheers:


There are two worlds. The people who want to make money with their property and the people who wants to make normal business in Dubai. The rising prices of property made it difficult for the normal investors. The property investors have been happy all the time. Now it will change. The falling prices of properties will make the owner cry but Dubai will be competive again. Dubai will continue to growth. The property bubbles in Singapore, Tokyo and Shanghai crashed, too. I think you get my point.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The UAE will not be affected by the current global slowdown as much as the industrial countries, Khalaf Ahmed Al Habtoor, Chairman of Al Habtoor Group, said in an exclusive in The Report: Dubai 2009, the latest edition of the authoritative business guide to be published by Oxford Business Group (OBG), the highly acclaimed publishing, research and consultancy firm. 

“We still have companies growing at rates of between 45% and 60% and the overall economy has a growth rate in excess of 6.5%, so business is still progressing,” he said.

“However, growth in certain sectors may have been exaggerated in recent years. 

“This disease that is infecting the economies of the rest of the world will slow our pace, but business will continue.”

Al Habtoor said he did not think any private companies were going public at the moment, and he asserted it was better for larger private companies to remain private and wait until market conditions had improved.

“The stock market has been constantly going down without any reason: many of our local companies are producing great results and fantastic dividends, yet they continue to see their share prices go down,” he said.

“This is purely psychological and it is very difficult to cure this issue.”

http://www.eyeofdubai.com/v1/news/newsdetail-26959.htm


----------



## mackie1964

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Everyone. :cheers:

Happy Islamic New Year 1430AH too.


----------



## IISinbadII

nisha said:


> This makes for nervous reading...I'd rather see news of falling prices than read about a frozen markethno:
> 
> 
> Property bargains fail to sell
> 
> Robert Ditcham
> 
> * Last Updated: December 20. 2008 4:29PM UAE / December 20. 2008 12:29PM GMT
> 
> The estate agents Engel and Volkers held a cut-price home sale in Dubai, but report that not one property changed hands. Courtesy Engel and Volkers
> 
> A Dubai-based estate agent slashed millions of dirhams from the value of homes in a 12-hour sell-off, but not one of the properties changed hands.
> 
> Last week, the Marina franchise of the international estate agency Engel and Volkers held what it called “the largest discounted sale of completed properties in Dubai” to breathe some life into its local business.
> 
> But the result was a sign of just how far the property market has reversed since the summer.
> 
> More than 150 homes in some of Dubai’s most exclusive addresses, including Emirates Hills, The Marina and the Palm Jumeirah, had a combined Dh175 million (US$48m) knocked off their original listing prices.
> 
> The company said it made contact with dozens of potential clients, many of whom indicated they would attend similar sell-offs in the future, but failed to sell any properties during the event.
> 
> “It was unfortunate, but it proves just how tough the market is at the moment.* A lot of people were scared that prices would drop more,*” said Harriet Killen, the office manager of Engel and Volkers’s Marina office, who added that December was traditionally a weak sales month since many residents left the country on holiday.
> 
> The situation was in stark contrast to scenes at this summer’s Abu Dhabi Cityscape Exhibition, when hundreds of investors queued for hours in the hope of putting their names down for properties.
> 
> “The market has been slow recently so we had to be active in generating some direct sales and some urgency,” said Ms Killen.
> 
> The company had urged sellers to drop their prices for a day to stimulate interest among potential buyers, knocking off between Dh500,000 and Dh1m from the prices of many properties.
> 
> A large number of the current owners of the discounted properties are making payments on assets that are sinking in value.
> 
> Many in their position have sold their homes to ease cash flow problems or to re-invest in other markets.
> 
> Most have already witnessed a huge appreciation in their homes since they first bought them and are generally content to take a hit on their margins.
> 
> During the event last Saturday, prospective buyers were invited to a 12-hour sell-off starting at 9.30am in which the public could meet the company’s sales and leasing agents. A local mortgage company was also on hand to arrange financing for potential clients.
> 
> Obtaining a mortgage is another stumbling block for would-be buyers. Banks and finance houses have tightened their lending criteria as the worldwide credit crisis deepens.
> 
> One lender, Amlak, has suspended new loan applications and others are demanding larger deposits.
> 
> Estate agents have said the shifting property market might have a positive effect, “cleansing” the business and raising standards in the industry.
> 
> There have already been hundreds of redundancies among brokerages and property developers, in some cases predominately support staff.
> 
> Quaid Abbas, an executive property consultant at the Sheikh Zayed Road branch of Engel and Volkers, described a typical discounted property as a villa in Arabian Ranches that sold initially for Dh2.5m, reached Dh7m as the market gained, and advertised for Dh6m in today’s market.
> 
> “We’re getting more listings than buyers. More people are selling than buying. Buyers are looking for a very good bargain and we cannot always meet their expectations. In their minds they want to buy at less than half of what it was.”
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081220/NATIONAL/382121011/0/FRONTPAGE


Its too late to sell....and too early to buy!


----------



## Bimcnorth

IISinbadII said:


> Its too late to sell....and too early to buy!



So we´ll celebrate and watch footy on the telly instead..:cheers:

Everyone is waiting for the Xmas shopping numbers anyway.


----------



## bjassin

Can someone IN SIMPLE terms clear up the confusion with rent tennancy contracts in Dubai. Let's take this example: a tenant signs a contract on January 25, 2008 for 1 year. So, I see 3 potential options to proceed at this point:

1. Tenant chooses to leave on Jan. 25, 2009--ok...this is easy to understand and there is no problem. Landlord would have to find another tenant.

2. Landlord wants to offer a renewal contract for another year but increase the rent 5%. It appears there is some confusion about this issue. Some people say that you can do this, others say that the rent CANNOT be increased on the second year--only the 3rd year. But, it was originally a one year contract. So, what's the real answer. Of course, for the sake of argument assume that the tenant does NOT want to pay increased rent. 

3. Landlord wants to evict the tenant. On this point there is also confusion. Some people say that if a proper notice of eviction is given, the tenant can stay until Jan. 25, 2010. Others say it is until Jan. 25, 2011.

So, I want to know from someone with REAL experience, what's the true situation?

Thanks,

BJ


----------



## smussuw

^^ It doesn't matter how many years the contract is. Tenants can stay minimum 3 years if they wanted and have their rent increased every 2 years. Landlords cannot evict tenants within the 3 years unless they prove that they will use it for his personal use with 3 months notice in advance. Either ways, the same conditions apply.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ which is why so many units are empty and not rented out. I suppose this is a good thing in some way to keep the supply down and the rents high.


----------



## smussuw

^^ There is a plenty time for their properties to lose 80% of their values, so renting then will be a better option . Seriously though, our renting law is no where tough. I remember hearing rent caps of 2% and landlords not being able to evict tenants ever.


----------



## Philippa C

IISinbadII said:


> Its too late to sell....and too early to buy!


If banks were to start lending 70-80% again it would kick start sales - not many people have a 40-50% deposit sitting in their accounts. It would also give the market some confidence as so much depends on "sentiment".


----------



## smussuw

^^ I really wonder why do we talk about overseas investors if they end up being financed by our banks? Can someone enlighten?


----------



## Mavekris

^^you just leaked out the biggest loophole of dubai real estate.:bash:


----------



## Bimcnorth

smussuw said:


> ^^ I really wonder why do we talk about overseas investors if they end up being financed by our banks? Can someone enlighten?


Erm, in my experience it depends on where people earn their money..i.e an Australian working in New York and getting a mortgage by an US bank (yes, it used to happen quite often many moons ago..:lol would not be counted as an overseas investor.

But I don´t know if there´s a rule really..?


----------



## smussuw

so bottom line we don't have overseas investors and all this crap being said about how we should be thankful to them is done by local money? :laugh: :nuts:


----------



## Bimcnorth

smussuw said:


> so bottom line we don't have overseas investors and all this crap being said about how we should be thankful to them is done by local money? :laugh: :nuts:



I think so..on the other hand an emirati (working and living in London) getting a loan from say Barclays Bank and buying a flat in Dubai would count as an overseas investor to the financial authorities.

On the other hand much of the loans by emirati banks was made possible by the flow of "hot money" into the UAE banks by foreign institutions..Who might have had that money deposited there by UAE SWF:s..who might have got it from foreign Oil companies..Hot money that have now withdrawn etc etc :nuts:


----------



## Tom_Green

In a crisis emotions weight much more tha economic facts.

So investors what`s your mood right now? Optimistic, pessimistic, neutral, nervous,......??


----------



## i love dubai

smussuw said:


> so bottom line we don't have overseas investors and all this crap being said about how we should be thankful to them is done by local money? :laugh: :nuts:


What about all cash buyers? who brought their hard earned cash to invest in a Dubai? Oh yes, they don't exist hno:


----------



## Bimcnorth

i love dubai said:


> What about all cash buyers? who brought their hard earned cash to invest in a Dubai? Oh yes, they don't exist hno:



That´s just 9% of the buys and to be honest those all cash buyers is almost exclusively from neighbouring countries like KSA, Oman, Qatar, Iran etc unless they are emirati.


----------



## Bimcnorth

Tom_Green said:


> In a crisis emotions weight much more tha economic facts.
> 
> So investors what`s your mood right now? Optimistic, pessimistic, neutral, nervous,......??



In general or just the property sector?

In Dubai property investors are bracing themselves, in UAE as a whole things are mostly business as usual with some delayed projects though.

But in total people are mostly just going on like they are used to..For the average emirati and the major expat groups like Indians, Pakistanis etc the price of gold is much more important than the property or stock market if we look at assets.


----------



## Tom_Green

Bimcnorth said:


> In general or just the property sector?
> 
> In Dubai property investors are bracing themselves, in UAE as a whole things are mostly business as usual with some delayed projects though.
> 
> But in total people are mostly just going on like they are used to..For the average emirati and the major expat groups like Indians, Pakistanis etc the price of gold is much more important than the property or stock market if we look at assets.


Just the property narket.


----------



## Bimcnorth

Tom_Green said:


> Just the property narket.


As always there´s a mix of fear and greed..There´s a lot of bargain hunting going on but most people that want to buy better homes rely on mortgages that are hard to get, those that don´t need them already got nice homes...:lol:

Right now the market is in an "wait and see" mode..volumes are very low.

The closeness to Abu Dhabi is also making it hard to predict the market.


----------



## IISinbadII

Philippa C said:


> If banks were to start lending 70-80% again it would kick start sales - not many people have a 40-50% deposit sitting in their accounts. It would also give the market some confidence as so much depends on "sentiment".


Buying property with banks money is a bad idea to begin with.


----------



## IISinbadII

bjassin said:


> Can someone IN SIMPLE terms clear up the confusion with rent tennancy contracts in Dubai. Let's take this example: a tenant signs a contract on January 25, 2008 for 1 year. So, I see 3 potential options to proceed at this point:
> 
> 1. Tenant chooses to leave on Jan. 25, 2009--ok...this is easy to understand and there is no problem. Landlord would have to find another tenant.


Yes.



> 2. Landlord wants to offer a renewal contract for another year but increase the rent 5%. It appears there is some confusion about this issue. Some people say that you can do this, others say that the rent CANNOT be increased on the second year--only the 3rd year. But, it was originally a one year contract. So, what's the real answer. Of course, for the sake of argument assume that the tenant does NOT want to pay increased rent.


You cannot increase rent for the 2nd year. 
You can increase the rent (by the government specified %) for the 3rd year.



> 3. Landlord wants to evict the tenant. On this point there is also confusion. Some people say that if a proper notice of eviction is given, the tenant can stay until Jan. 25, 2010. Others say it is until Jan. 25, 2011.


You cannot evict the tenant (for 3 years). 
(Unless you genuinely need it for yourself/family and have no options. you will have to prove the need. And they would likely put a bar on renting for some time and may give tenant a few months regardless)

Remember:
-1 year contract = 3 year contract.
-Landlord = Greedy, bad guy.


----------



## hot4dubai

IISinbadII said:


> Buying property with banks money is a bad idea to begin with.


^^In the states and most of Europe that is usually the only way people can buy houses. People save untill they get the deposit required to acquire a mortgage. Most people cannot afford to buy in cash.Remember they do not get government help so it is the only way to get on the property ladder.

This is a tried and tested system and it has been working for years. Untill America decided to lend blindly to anyone who asked and thats why we are all in the mess we are now!!

Mortgages are a good idea but only if properly executed. I think everyone has learnt their lesson now and mortgages will be properly regulated now.


----------



## googly

smussuw said:


> ^^ I really wonder why do we talk about overseas investors if they end up being financed by our banks? Can someone enlighten?


UAE banks have (had?) money and they can make quick money by giving out mortgages. It is clear that locals wont take out these loans (even if they did, they are few in numbers), so it is left to the foreigners to come and make the UAE banks rich. Besides, if they took out financing abroad, UAE banks wouldnt be able to make money; foreign banks would. 

Similarly, UAE property developers (including govt owned ones) can only sell so much to the locals. So, if they want to make money, they need foreigners to buy in large numbers. 

The Dubai govt charges a tax (2%) on property now. Furthermore, there is another tax paid to DEWA by all tenants/landlords. The Dubai govt needs people to exchange property and for people to live in them in order to make money; of course the locals cant provide much so it needs the help of the foreigners. 

Bottom line is that any economy needs consumers to buy; the locals are too few and therefore for the Dubai economy to grow, it needs foreigners to buy, buy, buy. Whether the consumer finances through a local UAE bank or another bank, its good for the Dubai economy.


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> Buying property with banks money is a bad idea to begin with.


If you would like people to buy with cash only, there would be very few people who could afford to do so. This would result in property crashes the world over as there would be very few buyers left. 

Expensive items (houses, cars, boats, etc) need to be financed. However, the financer needs to do due deligence before lending so that he doesnt end up with bad debt. Similarly people should be given a break (refinance, late payments,etc) if they are unable to pay back because of loss of job/emergency/etc.

I guess the fair and just way around this problem would be to get the bank to INVEST in the property and for it to sell its share in the house to the people over time. This way, if the property value goes up or down, the bank shares in the profit/loss and the people dont have to panic either way.


----------



## bjassin

IISinbadII said:


> Yes.
> 
> You cannot increase rent for the 2nd year.
> You can increase the rent (by the government specified %) for the 3rd year.


Do you offer the option of a rent increase under the same OLD contract or do you have to offer a new contract?

If you have to offer a new contract, does that now extend the time period of the contract for 3 more years?


BJ


----------



## IISinbadII

bjassin said:


> Do you offer the option of a rent increase under the same OLD contract or do you have to offer a new contract?


Every year a new contract is drafted with a duration of 1 year. But you cannot increase the rent for year # 2. You have to draft a new contract but with the same rent. The other terms could remain the same or be changed, but the rent remains the same.



> If you have to offer a new contract, does that now extend the time period of the contract for 3 more years?


No, it does not. The total # of years you cannot evict the tenant remain 3 years. 

In other words, you have to extend the contract for another year (year # 2). And again the following year (year # 3). For year # 3 you can increase the rent by a % announced by the government for that year. 

After 3 years you are free to keep the same tenant or find a new one.


----------



## Goss

I am currently renting out my Garden Villa on Palm Jumeirah on a weekly holiday let very successfully.The woman next door is kicking up saying I am not allowed to do this and threatening to report me to the DTCC (or something that sounded like this).Can anyone clarify the legality of this-apparently Nakheel have no objection.


----------



## Bobby G

Its fine and legal as far as I know.

Tell her to go and get hers somewhere else.


----------



## Richard Head

IISinbadII said:


> Every year a new contract is drafted with a duration of 1 year. But you cannot increase the rent for year # 2. You have to draft a new contract but with the same rent. The other terms could remain the same or be changed, but the rent remains the same.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it does not. The total # of years you cannot evict the tenant remain 3 years.
> 
> In other words, you have to extend the contract for another year (year # 2). And again the following year (year # 3). For year # 3 you can increase the rent by a % announced by the government for that year.
> 
> After 3 years you are free to keep the same tenant or find a new one.


Hi Sinbad,

You seem to have a solid knowledge of this, are you in the business?

To clarify your final point above, my question is, since my tenant is coming to the end of his 3rd year, can I simply tell him that I do not wish to renew his lease, without giving a reason? Can he fight this, if he goes to the rent commitee what decision are they likely to make? Can I then immediately bring in a new tenant (obviously at a higher rent). Or can I only make him leave if I wish to live there myself?

Appreciate if you could clarify this. Don't want to be perceived as a greedy landlord, but since this tenant is paying only just over half the current market rent I am losing a lot of potential income.

Thanks in advance

Richard


----------



## IISinbadII

Richard Head said:


> Hi Sinbad,
> 
> You seem to have a solid knowledge of this, are you in the business?
> 
> To clarify your final point above, my question is, since my tenant is coming to the end of his 3rd year, can I simply tell him that I do not wish to renew his lease, without giving a reason? Can he fight this, if he goes to the rent commitee what decision are they likely to make? Can I then immediately bring in a new tenant (obviously at a higher rent). Or can I only make him leave if I wish to live there myself?
> 
> Appreciate if you could clarify this. Don't want to be perceived as a greedy landlord, but since this tenant is paying only just over half the current market rent I am losing a lot of potential income.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Richard


No, I am no expert nor is this my profession. My understanding is that 3 year is the limit. At the end of 3rd year you can simply let him know that you don't wish to renew the the contract. To be on the safe side give him an early notice that would give him plenty of time to find a new place.


----------



## Smokeey

googly said:


> The Dubai govt charges a tax (2%) on property now. Furthermore, there is another tax paid to DEWA by all tenants/landlords.


Hi Googly, can you expand on this part and explain a bit more? Apologies if its been mentioned previously but this is news to me. Is this in addition to the service charges?


----------



## High Times

If a 2 bed property has a current market value of 180k pa rent.

Can a landlord rent the property to a tenant for 220k, but offer him a phased discount scheme as follows;

Landlord phased discount scheme;

18% discount in year 1 making year 1 rent 180k
9% discount in year 2 making year 2 rent 200k
4.5% discount in year 3 making year 3 rent 210k
0% discount in year 4 making year 4 rent 220k

So the true rental value in the contract is 220k pa every year, but the landlord is generously offering a discount to the tenant at different levels each year.

Would this be possible to implement ? 
how would the courts view it ?
Any ideas ?


----------



## 974agk

JLT Towers rental ratesgiven to me today [I assume these are average rental rates for a 2bdr + maids room]


With regards to your apartment you wish to let out in Icon Tower, You would be looking at a yearly rent of 180,000 AED unfurnished and between 200,000 & 210,000 AED Furnished.



This information is correct as of present market values.



Please let me know when this will be ready to let out as there is a high interest in the Jumeirah Lakes Towers


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> If a 2 bed property has a current market value of 180k pa rent.
> 
> Can a landlord rent the property to a tenant for 220k, but offer him a phased discount scheme as follows;
> 
> Landlord phased discount scheme;
> 
> 18% discount in year 1 making year 1 rent 180k
> 9% discount in year 2 making year 2 rent 200k
> 4.5% discount in year 3 making year 3 rent 210k
> 0% discount in year 4 making year 4 rent 220k
> 
> So the true rental value in the contract is 220k pa every year, but the landlord is generously offering a discount to the tenant at different levels each year.
> 
> Would this be possible to implement ?
> how would the courts view it ?
> Any ideas ?


^^ I aint buyin.....looks like a workaround to bypass rental cap restrictions. :shifty:


----------



## Philippa C

"UAE liquidity will turn around in first quarter of 2009" 

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/12/Pages/12222008_42e305cb67cb4e46afa22cb871b10436.aspx


This is what Doc has been telling us. Let's hope it happens!


----------



## Philippa C

High Times said:


> So the true rental value in the contract is 220k pa every year, but the landlord is generously offering a discount to the tenant at different levels each year.
> 
> Would this be possible to implement ?
> how would the courts view it ?
> Any ideas ?


If rents are going to fall as people are predicting due to an increase in supply, you might never get to the full price as the tenant might find a better deal elsewhere. If the contract ran the full course, I think the rental committee would see it as an attempt to bypass the rent cap. Having said that, if the tenant signed and agreed to it, the rent committee could not go against it.


----------



## smussuw

Published: December 18, 2008, 09:03
*Empty quarters: Black holes*
By Derek Baldwin, Senior Reporter











Residents need houses but can’t find anything available or affordable in a city where residential towers are going up everywhere.

As Dubai Municipality clamps down on shared villas and as evicted villa tenants seek rental space, demand for flats across the city appears to be on a dramatic upswing.

Banks are also making it more difficult by demanding larger down payments of up to one-third of the purchase price of a flat, pushing more would-be buyers back into the rental market, thereby pushing up the demand even higher.

And if those challenges weren’t enough, some developers and investors are quietly sitting on what appears to be a large stockpile of hundreds of completed, but empty, apartments across Dubai.


There are a lot of vacant flats in Dubai Marina and Jumeirah Beach Residence where owners don’t want to rent; they want to wait until they can sell. Marwan Bin Galita, CEO of Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Authority


A closer look by XPRESS reveals there are large black holes in the Dubai skyline when night falls.

A visit, for example, to Jumeirah Beach Residence (JBR) at Dubai Marina revealed completely blacked-out towers that are part of the Dh7.3 billion 36 JBR towers which contain roughly 7,500 units, ranging from studio to multi-bedroom flats.

Marwan Bin Galita, CEO of Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Authority, blamed the stockpile not on developers but on wealthy individual GCC investors who own entire buildings or a few flats in Dubai and refuse to let them out hoping to sell soon for top prices.

"A lot of them have their heads in the clouds thinking they will get the maximum price for their property," Bin Galita said. "There are a lot of vacant flats in Dubai Marina and Jumeirah Beach Residence where owners don’t want to rent; they want to wait until they can sell."

Keep, sell or rent!

Mohammad Sultan Thani, Dubai Land Department Assistant Director-General for Excellence and Organisational Governance, said in an interview that the empty buildings in Dubai "are a matter of people’s choice. They [owners] want to keep or sell their flats; they don’t want to rent them".

Thani said the back-logged housing stock could be freed up next year if property values continue to decline.

"If property prices come down, people will start renting rather than wait for a buyer. When this happens, that will ease the rental market," Thani said.

Nobody lives here

Four of JBR towers – 11 per cent in total – were found by XPRESS to be completely empty. Not a single light was on in any of the buildings known as Bahar 2, Bahar 3, Bahar 4, and Bahar 7.

A worker in Bahar 2’s lobby confirmed that "nobody lives here" but he couldn’t explain why.

XPRESS wanted to know why four completed towers were empty when demand is so high for liveable flats but the government-owned developers Dubai Properties couldn’t be reached for a comment.

Dark Towers

Even the JBR buildings that are open to tenants appear to be sparsely populated judging by windows that are lit up by active tenants from 7pm onwards.

At Rimal 5 tower, only 55 windows, or one-sixth of the tower’s 292 windows on one side, were lit while nearby at the Rimal 4 tower, only 53 windows, or one-eighth of roughly 400 windows on one side of the building were lit.

Both Bin Galita and Thani said some of the blacked out windows in opened towers may belong to wealthy owners from abroad who are using the flats for winter visits to Dubai. Others again may be empty flats waiting to be sold.

Lebanese expatriate Maen Sharif, 34, was visiting The Walk – an outdoor retail strip below the towers touting 350 retail outlets and 45 restaurants – and found the blacked-out buildings as odd.

"It feels strange that the towers are so dark when they are already finished," Sharif said. "I think a lot of people own them [flats] but do not live in them. I live in Deira but I would love to live in JBR," he said.

Tim Kelly, 24, a Dublin-based student visiting friends in Dubai, said, "It feels like nobody lives here. Where are all of the people? You would never see this in my city. People would be tripping over each other to live here."

Not far way, towards Jebel Ali, a similarly blacked-out horizon awaits visitors at Discovery Gardens, a 291-building development by government-owned Nakheel who has handed over many of the buildings to owners.

In the Mediterranean cluster, for example, XPRESS found Buildings 71, 72, and 73 blacked out and lifeless and no cars parked in the nearby spaces.

All quiet

Anthony George, 27, moved to a nearby building in early October and said the absolute quiet of a neighbourhood with virtually no residents was refreshing.

He ventured that investors who have bought completed buildings may not be releasing them to buyers or tenants until prices have reached their zenith.

The problem, he said, is that empty flats are pushing demand higher and supply lower.

"I think they are just pushing demand higher," he said. "They’re just keeping the balance."

Neighbour Prasad Kurup, 42, said: "In one or two months, it [supply] will go up. People are just waiting for the handover."

Restricting supply

Chris Dommett, CEO of John Carcol Dubai, an independent mortgage broker, said gauging the impact of empty but completed buildings in the city is tough.

That said, every building that remains empty is helping keep supply lower, noted Dommett.

"It would certainly restrict the supply side and would tend to keep rental and real estate prices higher than they were otherwise," Dommett said in an interview. "The tendency would be to reduce supply side, therefore keep prices higher."

The Dubai Chamber, in its November report, stated that the lower-income residents have been hit the hardest by rising rents in the last three years.

It added: "The recent crackdown on sharing of housing units has driven many low-income earners to other emirates where rents are affordable, while others have resorted to more drastic measures as sending their families back home and getting much smaller and cheaper accommodations.

"These movements have created vacancies which are in demand by those wanting to move into more affordable housing units, given the rising prices of all consumer goods and services."

JBR facts

The Jumeirah Beach Residence is a Dh7.3 billion project which comprises 40 towers: 36 residential and four hotel
Launched in 2002 by Dubai Properties and completed in 2007, the project has approximately 7,500 units, including studio and multi-room apartments
XPRESS found that four towers were completely empty and some that were occupied had many vacant units
Bank report

A recent HSBC report said: "The market in Dubai will remain tight at least until 2010. Also, we mentioned in our previous reports, the government can manage supply through its direct and indirect ownership in Dubai’s largest developers."
The HSBC report, which was released in mid-October, further stated, "We estimate that roughly 90 per cent of upcoming supply in Dubai is controlled by Nakheel, Dubai Holding and Emaar."
The report believes "that no more than 95,000 units will hit the market between 2008 and 2010".


----------



## aviduser

Isn't it time people just accepted that the Dubai Boom is OVER and over for good. Do any of you read the rest of this forum ? 

I did and I got out, and before the crunch, I got out not because I saw that coming so much as everything I read on here, set the alarm bells off. 

Delays, poor finish astronomical service charges no Visa's the list goes on. 

The whole thing was completely unsustainable, I ask my wife now "what was I thinking" to be involved in the whole thing, I was lucky. I still can't beleive I got out and in August, I was not greedy I asked a fair value and flipped the place and doubled my investment. So I am just as guilty as the next man, buy flip. The poor guy who brought my place was struggling to get a mortgage as it was, I hate to think about what would have happened if I had got gready. 

Dubai is going to go down in the history books, people will write about it like the Miami baech bubble (this weeks economist) or the Dutch tulip bubble or the Dot com crash. 

Dubai's hubris finished it off, as hubris always does. Dubai is a lesson to us all.


----------



## smussuw

first timer said:


> No I dont think will return in the same way ever again.
> I think the Dubai thing is well and truly over and when the market returns it will be a different country
> 
> People get angry on this forum because they simply cannot face the facts, they have lost too much money and I do appreciate that its hurting them.


The thing is that the only thing u've been saying all this time was

"the sky is falling, the sky is falling"

You didn't back it up with information, u didnt prove it with evidence. People appreciate facts however negative they are but not rumor mongers.


----------



## HappyLarry

High Times said:


> If a 2 bed property has a current market value of 180k pa rent.
> 
> Can a landlord rent the property to a tenant for 220k, but offer him a phased discount scheme as follows;
> 
> Landlord phased discount scheme;
> 
> 18% discount in year 1 making year 1 rent 180k
> 9% discount in year 2 making year 2 rent 200k
> 4.5% discount in year 3 making year 3 rent 210k
> 0% discount in year 4 making year 4 rent 220k
> 
> So the true rental value in the contract is 220k pa every year, but the landlord is generously offering a discount to the tenant at different levels each year.
> 
> Would this be possible to implement ?
> how would the courts view it ?
> Any ideas ?


A simpler version of this approach was suggested a few weeks back and was shot down, accusing it as a greedy landlord thing. Well, I am for it. I would add a further clause that allows the landlord to hold onto the discount and release it when the tenant leaves as per agreement.
Also, I don't believe it is underhand. After all, it would be a legally binding contract when signed by both parties. :cheers:


----------



## googly

Smokeey said:


> Hi Googly, can you expand on this part and explain a bit more? Apologies if its been mentioned previously but this is news to me. Is this in addition to the service charges?


There are two taxes on property that I know of: 

1. Property Tax: This is a 2% tax to be given the Dubai Municipality on purchase of property. If you bought from the developer, then you pay half and the developer pays half. The property is then transferred to your name in the Govt books. This tax is paid every time the property exchanges hands. 

2. DEWA Tax: If you get a DEWA connection yourself, DEWA will charge you 0.5% tax per year. If, however, you rent your property, then the tenant will be required to pay 5% of the annual rental value per year. 

Yes, these taxes are in addition to the service charges that you pay to the developer every year to keep your building in good shape.


----------



## foxy

smussuw said:


> The thing is that the only thing u've been saying all this time was
> 
> "the sky is falling, the sky is falling"
> 
> You didn't back it up with information, u didnt prove it with evidence. People appreciate facts however negative they are but not rumor mongers.


Well said. When facts are thin on the ground an opinion is just an opinion. 

One piece of reality is that markets have a cycle and when this cycle reaches its bottom very few call it.. in fact the pessimists are at their loudest.


----------



## HappyLarry

smussuw said:


> ^^ okay, I agree that this is a bubble bursting but do u really believe that things will not be good 2 years from now? You and aviduser ...


Dear smussuw,
I am :banana: to read you optimistic side.

As for First_Timer and aviduser - good luck to them but I have to laugh at their statements of doom and gloom as if the world has suddenly ended. Of course, it is the flippers who have pushed prices to unsustainable levels and certain pairing off is necessary. 
I have seen and read about bubbles and recessions and what these two need to understand is that things return to equilibrium at some point and not "never". 
:cheers:


----------



## first timer

smussuw said:


> The thing is that the only thing u've been saying all this time was
> 
> "the sky is falling, the sky is falling"
> 
> You didn't back it up with information, u didnt prove it with evidence. People appreciate facts however negative they are but not rumor mongers.


Thats strange I have never said 'the sky is falling', please show me such posting.

Let me put it another way, the sky are not falling the ground will be collapsing beneath out feet when the prices tumble down, we have not seen anything yet in my opinion

I have provided numerous articles and facts and better still what I stated 3 months ago is now becoming a fast reality
:lol:


----------



## antlong

*Nakheel Rules Out Liquidity Problems*



Richard Head said:


> ^^ Oh yes, good old Chris, he can predict demand in what is quite possibly the most unpredictable set of circumstances in the history of real estate anywhere in the world. He knows the numbers, and when they change, which is every 14 seconds, he knows that too, even when he's asleep. Then he just adjusts the supply dial accordingly. it's really that easy, kids.
> 
> And that's why Chris O'Donnell is CEO of Nakheel, and we're................errrr.............how can I put this nicely..............kind of not.


Chris previously Sydney, Australia based with 7 years experience at Investa Property Group (ASX Listed) ..... Pretty Solid Experience!

- Before joining Nakheel in June 2006, Chris spent the past five years as Managing Director of Investa Property Group in Australia where, under his leadership, the Australian Stock Exchange listed company increased its funds under management from A$800 million to A$6.2 billion.
- Chris has also held other senior executive positions with prominent Australian organisations including Lend Lease, Leighton and Westpac Banking Corporation.

Explains a long term relationship between Chris and the Main Contractor to Trump Tower, Al Habtoor Leighton which is a subsidiary of ASX listed Leighton Holdings. 

The proposed Trump Tower on the Palm Jumeirah, a Dh2.9 billion (US$800m) project announced earlier this year, has been suspended, says the Australian construction firm contracted to build it, according to The Australian newspaper.

Citing “easing market conditions,” the Australia-listed Leighton Holdings said today the project was on hold, and that Nakheel, the developer, had agreed to cover all costs incurred to date, paper said.


----------



## first timer

error


----------



## Smokeey

googly said:


> There are two taxes on property that I know of:
> 
> 1. Property Tax: This is a 2% tax to be given the Dubai Municipality on purchase of property. If you bought from the developer, then you pay half and the developer pays half. The property is then transferred to your name in the Govt books. This tax is paid every time the property exchanges hands.
> 
> 2. DEWA Tax: If you get a DEWA connection yourself, DEWA will charge you 0.5% tax per year. If, however, you rent your property, then the tenant will be required to pay 5% of the annual rental value per year.
> 
> Yes, these taxes are in addition to the service charges that you pay to the developer every year to keep your building in good shape.


Thanks Googly - thats good to know. Will make a mental note of this 

So basically if I buy a resale property from an agent, I will end up paying the following 'additional' fees on purchase:
- Agents fee (2% of resale price)
- Developer transfer fee (5000Dhs fixed)
- Property Tax (2% of resale or original price?)

Then once I take possesion of my property I'll need to pay the following 'ongoing' fees (assuming I use the property myself):
- Developers maintenance fees (circa 20Dhs psf)
- DEWA Tax (0.5%)
- District and cooling fees (??Dhs)

Does that sound about right or am I missing anything?

Thanks,
Smokeey.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Recovery predicted for Dubai real estate market*

Investment analysts have said Dubai’s investment property prices could start a recovery process in 2010 if enough liquidity arrives in the market.

EFG Hermes also said price falls had first begun in September this year, and had since been falling between one and two per cent per month.

Both off plan and finished homes were falling in value, the company said, with developers now scaling back ambitious projects.

The company released figures which suggest the slump could end inside two years but may go on longer if buyer confidence continues to fall.

Ms Sana Kapadia, analyst at EFG Hermes, said: 

“We don’t really have an understanding of the full extent of how bad the current picture is, but from our own pricing index we have seen price declines starting in September 2008.”

She added even if prices fall 15 to 20 per cent, many units would still be inaccessible to the wider market.

Dubai continues to undergo a price correction as other UAE states continue to show strong demand and rising values.

Ajman in particular has held up well, with Smart Towers, a residential scheme by Goldcrest Properties, selling its first phase in just 15 days.

Citigroup also recently said Abu Dhabi can expect a continuing growth of its rental market, where demand continues to outstrip supply.

One of the larger but less famous states, Sharjah, is also pushing on with development and recently hosted a successful real estate show.


----------



## jagmp

bubble and burst are the phases of economical cycle.it finds its own equilbrium. in the new world order capitalsm is rising in a new form.where government ,businesses and private sectors are depending more on the taxpayers money.same way a new order for the Dubai real estate is in the horizen.where greed replaces the rationalism.where prices will be sustainable.rents will be affordable.new laws will be in place to protect the investors.after the earthquack of correction which was inevitable new soil will be more fertile. a new era will emerge. that is the law of mother nature.

nothing is parmanent.neither growth nor the slump.there are the two sides of the economy.those who will ride the storm will emerge triumphant.

where can we take the investments? to us? uk? or asia? invest where? in real estate or share in those region? or put in the bank account where we lose the money in real terms.the whole world is falling apart.it is our personel choice what we prefer to do with our money according to our own confidence.those who were not comfortabel in Dubai made their choice and left Dubai.they do not need to worry about others. people in this forum are mature enough and don't need any unsolicited advice.

if a person is not wellcome by majority of the forum members forcing his/her self on most of us.can't feel the humiliation.we have to be sympathetic. there must be something wrong in the wiring of the person's brain.is there a neurologist in this forum DOCC?


----------



## IISinbadII

googly said:


> There are two taxes on property that I know of:
> 
> 1. Property Tax: This is a 2% tax to be given the Dubai Municipality on purchase of property. If you bought from the developer, then you pay half and the developer pays half. The property is then transferred to your name in the Govt books. This tax is paid every time the property exchanges hands.
> 
> 2. DEWA Tax: If you get a DEWA connection yourself, DEWA will charge you 0.5% tax per year. If, however, you rent your property, then the tenant will be required to pay 5% of the annual rental value per year.
> 
> Yes, these taxes are in addition to the service charges that you pay to the developer every year to keep your building in good shape.


There is no Property Tax in Dubai. What you are calling "Property Tax" is actually a one time *Land Department Registration Fee* of 1% (on purchase price) for obtaining the "Title of Ownership" for your property.

Also what you call "DEWA Tax" is actually the *Dubai Municipality Housing Fees* that is paid along with the DEWA bill.


----------



## Imre

^^
so Dubai is still TAX free


----------



## nri-hotels

HappyLarry said:


> Maybe not!
> Opec decided to cut production from Jan 1. Saudis are cutting 2Mb/d. Russia is also indicating joining in by cutting its production. You quoted low 40s to mid 30s $/b. That is a spread of about 25%.
> Even I can predict that Dubai property will go down by 20% give or take 25% margin of error.
> 
> So, may be. Just may be, you should put that trumpet away!


Blowing nice and loud.. LOL and this from my prediction on Nov 21


----------



## dwarish

Chapal Group spending millions of $ for advertising every day in the printing media or city hordings. why not showing dedication at construction dedication, any one suggest chapal group's any completed project which has been handed over to poor investor or end user.


----------



## rakeshmmm

*Property Charges*



IISinbadII said:


> There is no Property Tax in Dubai. What you are calling "Property Tax" is actually a one time *Land Department Registration Fee* of 1% (on purchase price) for obtaining the "Title of Ownership" for your property.
> 
> Also what you call "DEWA Tax" is actually the *Dubai Municipality Housing Fees* that is paid along with the DEWA bill.



Can you elaborate when do we need to pay Land Department Registration Fee for a dubai off plan property? Is it on handover from developer or at the time of the purchase contract? Thanks in advance.


----------



## mome

*property investment in dubai*

THE SKY HAS FALLEN AND MAY BRIDS HAVE FLED

i HAVE IT ON GOOD AUTHORITY THAT TODAY WE CAN PICK UP APARTMENTS FOR CASH

AS CASH IS KING FROM AS LITTLE AE 600 DIRHAMS PER SQUARE FOOT IN MARINA THESE ARE READY TO DELIVER PROPERTIES AS LAST PAYMENTS ARE OUTSTANDING


IN THE BURJ PEOPLE ARE BUYING PROPERTIES AT 9OO per sq foot

prices will still fall 

the honeymoon is over 

hang in there and this is the time u will get good pickings if you are honest and astute 

BAD NEWS FOR THOSE PROPERTIES ON HOLD OR SUSPENDED

I DONT BELEIVE THEY WILL BE BUILT EVEN IN 10 YEARS AS I KNOW MOST PEOPLE LOST THEIR SHIRTS AND SHORTS ON THE STOCK EXCHANGE


SORRY GUYS

IF YOUR DEVELOPER HAS NOT DELIVERED AND HASNT STARTED GO TO LADN DEPARTMNET AN DSEE WHERE AN DHOW MUCH OF YOUR MONEY IS IN ESCROW ACCOUNT COS 

IT WILL BE LOST OTHERWISE 

GREAT HOLIDAYS TO ALL

ITS BEEN AN EVENTFUL YEAR

AS THE CHINESE SAY

WE LIVE IN INTERESTING TIMES


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

*^^^^ Where are the mods?? Is everyone on Christmas vacation??? ^^^^ 

how many accounts does firsttimer have???*


----------



## mome

*paying LAND department*

if you bought a property from a speculator and havent taken transfer i would suggest you CHECK THE PROPERTY AND THE DEVELOPER OUT THOROUGHLY AND GET GUARANTEES ON THE HANDOVER DATE THEN YOU SHOULD TAKE TRANSFER AND THEN PAY THE LAND DEPAARTMENT AS I NOTICE PEOPLE ARE SCRAMBLING TO SELL THEIR LEMONS 

THOSE PROPERTIES WHICH WILL NEVER BEE BUILT AND YOU WILL LOSE SOME MONEY


----------



## googly

Smokeey said:


> Thanks Googly - thats good to know. Will make a mental note of this
> 
> So basically if I buy a resale property from an agent, I will end up paying the following 'additional' fees on purchase:
> - Agents fee (2% of resale price)
> - Developer transfer fee (5000Dhs fixed)
> - Property Tax (2% of resale or original price?)
> 
> Then once I take possesion of my property I'll need to pay the following 'ongoing' fees (assuming I use the property myself):
> - Developers maintenance fees (circa 20Dhs psf)
> - DEWA Tax (0.5%)
> - District and cooling fees (??Dhs)
> 
> Does that sound about right or am I missing anything?
> 
> Thanks,
> Smokeey.


Sinbad is right about the names of the taxes; I was trying to make it simple. 

1. Property Tax: It is called Land Registration Fee. It is 2% but you pay 1% since the developer pays the other 1%. This tax is paid when the developer and the Lands Department decide they are ready to register your property. This is usually paid many months AFTER handover. 

2. DEWA Tax: It is called Dubai Municipality Housing Fees. You pay 0.5% per year, though you can get it split up and pay in monthly or quaterly installments.


----------



## HappyLarry

^^ Well the fed are short-sighted.
In marketing terms, one only starts increasing charges when demand increases. With economic crises effecting tourism/business travel to Dubai, I would have thought that someone at the fed would have been smart enough to reverse the decision. Maybe there is still time!

:cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

( #11260 )

But when we talking about a Political controls ...everything could been changed on moments ... they know what's the effect better then us ! like any country on target of Berbers from entire world looking for good life in a conservative society.


----------



## dubaiprojects

*Gulf new article*

http://www.gulfnews.com/gnqfr/gnqfr42008/markets/10260695.html


----------



## gerald.d

dubaiprojects said:


> http://www.gulfnews.com/gnqfr/gnqfr42008/markets/10260695.html


Laughable.

Another exec with vested interests being given column inches and using them for marketing purposes.

It never ceases to amaze me how stupid these people think the readers of 
the articles that they pontificate in are.



> People here talk about 'correction', [but] it is not true to say that, [because really it was an inflated price] in March, April, May. Units then were unreasonably priced, and now will come down to reasonable [levels]. That means that people who talk about the correction by saying that prices will drop by 10-15-20 per cent ... I think it's misleading. Prices which were and are reasonable will stay there.


Right. So property that was "unreasonably priced" in the past, will now come down to "reasonable levels", but that isn't a "correction"?

Get this guy to sell you a property today, with the guarantee that, if you wish, he'll buy it back off you - with his own money - in six months' time for the price you paid for it. Then, and only then, should you believe a single word he says.


----------



## gerald.d

"*The split between end-user and investor was 70:30*. Now, with the [new] rules, it will be a little more balanced — 60-40, maybe 50-50.

But what is supporting such a scenario? What is moving Dubai now? It is the demand.

In our Jumeirah Lake Towers, of the 300 units, I came to know that people are living in 260. Of these, *200 are rented and 60 are [owner-occupied]*. But I am sure for investors the return on the rent is good and that it is a good investment."


----------



## AltinD

Stopping issuing visas to certain nationalities was done for state security reasons.


----------



## Mistermark

Dubai_Steve said:


> I completely agree with you TB, the visa issue may well be the death of Dubai.
> 
> Is it possible to spend 3 or 6 months in Dubai after retirement every year? Many have bought holiday homes with this in mind.
> 
> With this problem and the problem that rich cash buyers from Iran and Russia are no longer welcome, there is no hope.


I agree with this, and think the Dubai government should re-think its position quickly.

With the country having a small indigenous population and lots of ex-pats doing white collar jobs and spending their high salaries in the local economy, all is rosy as long as the economy is healthy. When things slow, they lose their jobs, and with them, the right to reside - hence, the economy tips much more dramatically than a country with a mostly long-term resident population whose right to remain is independent of their working status.

Encouraging people of independent means who don't need to work but won't be a drain on the state to live some or all of the year in the country is a great way round this. And making property ownership a condition of residency is a fair thing to demand of them in return.

Dubai has competitors who are already trying to entice such people to their countries - Panama and Switzerland, to name but two. But its geographical position leaves it well placed to be a neutral 'safe haven' for wealthy people from other Middle Eastern states whose faces or political opinions don't quite fit at home, as well as a tax haven for wealthy Russians, Indians and others. So now's the time to be promoting the residency-with-property angle, not trying to backtrack on it...


----------



## IISinbadII

The fact is that residence visas for property investors issue remains unclear. They said that they would introduce a policy soon, but months have passed without any announcement. 

They not only need to re-start issuing property based residence visas, but also introduce a property investor welcome package....something like "Dubai, my second home" program. And they need to do it NOW!


----------



## worried1

*Retirement in dubai increasingly unlikely*



Mistermark said:


> I agree with this, and think the Dubai government should re-think its position quickly.
> 
> With the country having a small indigenous population and lots of ex-pats doing white collar jobs and spending their high salaries in the local economy, all is rosy as long as the economy is healthy. When things slow, they lose their jobs, and with them, the right to reside - hence, the economy tips much more dramatically than a country with a mostly long-term resident population whose right to remain is independent of their working status.
> 
> Encouraging people of independent means who don't need to work but won't be a drain on the state to live some or all of the year in the country is a great way round this. And making property ownership a condition of residency is a fair thing to demand of them in return.
> 
> Dubai has competitors who are already trying to entice such people to their countries - Panama and Switzerland, to name but two. But its geographical position leaves it well placed to be a neutral 'safe haven' for wealthy people from other Middle Eastern states whose faces or political opinions don't quite fit at home, as well as a tax haven for wealthy Russians, Indians and others. So now's the time to be promoting the residency-with-property angle, not trying to backtrack on it...


You are right. Agroup of us decided to spend 2 months a year in Dubai during retirement, so we all bought suites in 5 star condo hotels. We would earn rental in AED live luxiriously spend the money, have fun in UAE. Now with no residence visa, we have to get AED sent to our home country, convert to home currency, then to USD or GBP and then back into AED.

So you are right Panama or Switzerland would be a good alternative and if ssmuw does not like us here---Why bother


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Does anyone have the numbers of how fast the population in Dubai is shrinking now that visas are being cancelled in their thousands?


----------



## smussuw

^^ but are Visas being canceled in thousands :crazy:


----------



## aviduser

Fundamentally now property is overpriced as I mentioned before and the lack of Visas has removed the cash buyers. 

I don't think the country will reinstate the visas, not in time anyway. 

Even before the credit crunch the cracks were beginning to show, anyone who has studied this site would know that. Taking away the Visas removed the final leg holding up the industry. Cash buyers didn't care when it was finished or how it looked or even the service charge, they wanted that Visa, they wanted a safe haven, some where where they could have some stability, and Dubai basically came around and screwed them. That is unacceptable and fundamentally breaks the trust between the purchaser and the country. 

Fundamentally, apartments need to be cheaper, anything over 1.200000 is too much for anyone with even an above average wage, holiday lets are not gonna be a major market here, there are simply too many hotels to make that practical.


----------



## jagmp

anything above 1.2m is too much for what?can you explain?a 1 br 2 br or a villa? in IC or Marina or Palm or DG? please elaborate.you mean to say no property should be over 1.2m mark?


----------



## aviduser

1.2 mil for a two bed is the most you can charge for a two bed flat and realistically think that a professional on a decent wage 40K UK could afford, and that is before the mortgages were only 60% of the value. Villas obviously slightly more, but maxing out at 3 mill Rials

Lets do a quick survey to confirm this, who on this site earns 40 K or above in Dubai ? or 70,000 dollars ???????


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think he means a 1 bed or studio. 2 people can share the mortgage or rent in a 2 bed.


----------



## jagmp

what about the people with family living with them? how can they live in an apt.and what kind of a rental yield would you think is reasonable.


----------



## Imre

gulfnews:

*Dubai launches online tenancy registration *



Dubai The pressure of coming up with one cheque to pay your annual rent could soon be over with the Real Estate Regulatory Authority's (Rera) newly-created online registration of tenancy contracts in Dubai, analysts say.

Rera recently urged tenants and landlords through an advertisement campaign to register tenancy contracts online from January 1, 2009, to develop a comprehensive rental index that will help it to evaluate and regulate the market better, with a Dh100 fee.

The online registration spells the end of landlord-tenant disputes and will help Rera gauge the rental market in Dubai fully. 


"About six months ago, people were paying rent in one or two or maximum four cheques. Given today's financial situation, these [payment plans] will be more flexible. And if Rera can gather the information through this, then they can also give more guidance," Elaine Jones, chief executive officer of Asteco, told Gulf News.

Additional fees may well not be an option, as house fees are included in the annual Dubai Electricity and Water Authority bills, although many areas in Dubai still do not receive these.

Rera said earlier this year that they wanted to have zones within Dubai where an average rent rate would be given for each zone. This appears to be the first step on that road. Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive officer of Rera, wasn't available for comment.


----------



## iced

*Visa*

I think that there will be u turn on this and people will be given the opportunity for visa. Unfortunately they will probably be renewable yearly and cost more than 5k AED. It is just a matter of time. I am sure Ajman will go the same way.


----------



## Maha

smussuw said:


> ^^ but are Visas being canceled in thousands :crazy:


Good question


----------



## Cyrus55

London-based property adviser, Mohammed Kashani-Akhavan took a full-page advertisement in Gulf News to make his case for Dubai property now representing a great opportunity for buyers. 

It was interesting to see this statement from an individual who claimed 27 years of experience in the UK, as a successful property investor who had always followed the old mantra of buying cheap when everybody else was selling. 


Distressed sales only
That certainly appears to characterise the Dubai real estate market as the year draws to a close. There are a large number of properties on the market in all categories, and the only ones that are selling are negotiating distressed prices. 

Kashani-Akhavan argued that the cancellation of many projects in Dubai would reduce the upcoming supply of property and ensure 'significant growth in the value of Dubai properties in the future', and that the rate of return on rental properties makes 'Dubai one of the best cities in the world for long-term property investment'. 

But then the counter-argument is that many local companies are downsizing their staffing levels - not least the real estate and property development groups - and this is likely to change demand for property in the near term, possibly putting a cap on rental prices. 

Then again, Kashani-Akhavan has it right when he talks about Dubai's 'capable and committed leadership that has managed to turn Dubai into one of the most important cities in the world' and that this should give investors 'every confidence in Dubai's future prosperity'. 


Boom gone bust
But it is clear that Dubai is going through something of a consolidation period and the $80bn debt mountain is going to take some time to clear. Some would say the bigger the boom, the bigger the bust, although that is not always the case in emerging markets, particularly ones with the underlying business economics of the UAE. 

In the case of the UAE, the reasoning is that the oil price should hit its cyclical low early next year, and then recover as the global bailouts and stimulus packages kick in. 

Given a six-month time lag between oil prices and the real economy of the UAE that might count property out for most of 2009. 

However, the recovery cycle could still prove surprisingly swift, just as the downturn this autumn has proven surprisingly fast. In that case accumulating Dubai property at depressed prices has to be a winner, as Kashani-Akhavan suggests. 

See also: 
Dubai market at 'tipping point' as Rera warns against halting payments


----------



## Arno Salzl

nisha said:


> Emaar has cancelled its proposed share buy back.......so what control over market were you referring to?


The UAE stock markets are now among the worst performers in the world. Since they are the mirror of the economy, one could seriously start worrying.

Marry Christmas to all of you.


----------



## Monument

Arno Salzl said:


> The UAE stock markets are now among the worst performers in the world. Since they are the mirror of the economy, one could seriously start worrying.
> 
> Marry Christmas to all of you.


Start worrying and buying. The worst perfomers are the places to go: buy low sell high. Unlike most people who tend to follow the crowd and buy at the top of a bubble and sell in panic at a much lower price.


----------



## docc

nisha said:


> Emaar has cancelled its proposed share buy back.......so what control over market were you referring to?


I was quite surprised reading that news bit. The lack of liquidity is clearly the issue here. This is getting more and more curious actually *scratches chin*...


----------



## Arno Salzl

*UAE to have Unified Freehold Property Law*

*UAE to have Unified Freehold Property Law*

19 December 2008
ABU DHABI -

Draft legislation is under way that aims to protect the UAE by restricting expatriates from automatically acquiring residency visas through freehold property ownership, according to a Federal National Council (FNC) member.

The council will shortly submit a draft law on freehold property to the government which will unify the divergent laws relating to the sector in the seven emirates.

Dr Abdul Rahim Shaheen, council member, speaking to Khaleej Times, said the council was moving to enact the proposed legislation as soon as possible.
"The Council's interim committee is studying the impacts of the Ministry of Labour's decisions and rules on expatriate workforce in view that the seven emirates handle the freehold property under different rules, which led to chaos in the sector."

"Therefore, it called for the government to issue a federal law unifying rules on dealing with foreigners regarding the freehold of properties, and pinpoints strict punishments against whoever exploits the ownership in jeopardising public interest," he said.

He said the issue endangered national interest and the identity of the UAE as Emiratis were increasingly outnumbered by expatriates, and that some residents had begun demanding rights.
"The statute was badly needed and expeditiously, for some voices belonging to countries of expatriates living and working in the country had begun to talk of granting rights, which are not stipulated in the constitution."

Expatriates are not entitled to a 25-year residency through property ownership, a senior official at the Ministry of Interior has clarified.

Colonel Rashid Sultan Al Khider, Director of Legal Department in the Ministry of Interior (MoI) told Khaleej Times, that the Naturalisation and Residency Law does not have any article that allows expatriate property owners to obtain a 25-year residency visa.

The clarification by the Ministry of Interior which calls for a new law by the FNC, comes after the practice of several property developers of advertising residency visas with their property sales.

"It is not right," he said, "As it came from some property companies and is a violation of the Naturalisation and Residency Law which states that the expatriates in the UAE are here either for work, study, medical treatment, tourism, or are sponsored as family members."

He pointed out that the FNC's move on freehold property draft law was timely before wrong practices by some property marketing companies hit the society.

"A unified property law for the UAE is better as it will accelerate the legal initiatives. But it remains to be seen what is the exact nature of the new legislation," said the Chief Executive Officer of the Bloom Properties Hani Shammah."We need a law which will make the property transactions more transparent and will put in place better processes and further liberalise the real estate sector. The law must ensure that end-user driven real estate market would get priority and the excessive speculation is eliminated," he added.

Mohammed Al Haj, CEO of Deerfields Properties said that if the law allowed residency visas to some extent, it would boost the market.

"The FNC would not take any step without proper studies. I'm sure they would have taken this initiative also after due consideration about the risks emanating from it. They will not want to create a situation where people from different countries come here and vanish with all profits when a crisis arises. The law must systematically organise and control the property sector."

© Khaleej Times 2008


----------



## IISinbadII

Arno Salzl said:


> He said the issue endangered national interest and the identity of the UAE as Emiratis were increasingly outnumbered by expatriates, and that some residents had begun demanding rights.
> 
> "The statute was badly needed and expeditiously, for some voices belonging to countries of expatriates living and working in the country had begun to talk of granting rights, which are not stipulated in the constitution."


The only right property owners ever expected was the be able to live/retire peacefully in their own homes, have a checkbook and be able to send their kids to school, i.e. at their own expense. 



> Expatriates are not entitled to a 25-year residency through property ownership, a senior official at the Ministry of Interior has clarified.
> 
> Colonel Rashid Sultan Al Khider, Director of Legal Department in the Ministry of Interior (MoI) told Khaleej Times, that the Naturalisation and Residency Law does not have any article that allows expatriate property owners to obtain a 25-year residency visa.


The renewable visa was valid for 3 years only (not 25 years).



> The clarification by the Ministry of Interior which calls for a new law by the FNC, comes after the practice of several property developers of advertising residency visas with their property sales.


Why should investors be punished for what the developers wrongly advertised.



> "It is not right," he said, "As it came from some property companies and is a violation of the Naturalisation and Residency Law which states that the expatriates in the UAE are here either for work, study, medical treatment, tourism, or are sponsored as family members."


If this was the case, why did the government keep issuing property based visas for years.


----------



## smussuw

This is an initiative done by some members of FNC alone and since we are a dictatorship the government will simply ignore it. Hope it become a reality though !



Arno Salzl said:


> "It is not right," he said, "As it came from some property companies and is a violation of the Naturalisation and Residency Law which states that the expatriates in the UAE are here either for work, study, medical treatment, tourism, or are sponsored as family members."


Isn't this what I have always been saying? :| :cheer::cheer::cheer:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I am planning to retire in a few years. I do not want to work anymore and I have enough money/investments to support myself for the next 100 years. Is it the case that I am not allowed to live in my own property in Dubai.

oh well looks like I will have to sell up in Dubai and move to Spain instead.


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> I am planning to retire in a few years. I do not want to work anymore and I have enough money/investments to support myself for the next 100 years. Is it the case that I am not allowed to live in my own property in Dubai.
> 
> oh well looks like I will have to sell up in Dubai and move to Spain instead.


Pero mi Español es malo! :bash:


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> I am planning to retire in a few years. I do not want to work anymore and I have enough money/investments to support myself for the next 100 years. Is it the case that I am not allowed to live in my own property in Dubai.
> 
> oh well looks like I will have to sell up in Dubai and move to Spain instead.


rent still good in Dubai, better if you just keep some properties and live with the rent anywhere


----------



## hot4dubai

IISinbadII said:


> No natural greenery.
> Extremely hot weather.
> No mountains.
> No (real) lakes.
> No palm trees on the beach.
> No theme parks.
> Very expensive.
> Shopping is impossible due to inflated prices.
> Taxis hard to find.


Dubai offers alternatives...People do not visit Dubai for Greenery...they visit for Desert Safari's etc. Yes Summer is hot but other countries have harsh winters etc. I do not think anyone would miss a lake when the Ocean is the alternative. Theme Parks being addressed by Dubailand and as for shopping..like most major cities. Taxi problem being addressed with upcoming Metro etc. Dubai is a good all-rounder...city & beach life!


----------



## Northstar

hot4dubai said:


> Dubai offers alternatives...People do not visit Dubai for Greenery...they visit for Desert Safari's etc. Yes Summer is hot but other countries have harsh winters etc. I do not think anyone would miss a lake when the Ocean is the alternative. Theme Parks being addressed by Dubailand and as for shopping..like most major cities. Taxi problem being addressed with upcoming Metro etc. Dubai is a good all-rounder...city & beach life!


You can have the best of everything, but if the local population is not welcoming and hospitable, why would you want to go there and support their economy.

The Dubai Gov't is either up to a huge conspiracy or they have their heads up their asses.

On that note, Seasons greeting to all and to all a happy new year.


----------



## Raza01

IISinbadII said:


> No natural greenery.
> Extremely hot weather.
> No mountains.
> No (real) lakes.
> No palm trees on the beach.
> No theme parks.
> Very expensive.
> Shopping is impossible due to inflated prices.
> Taxis hard to find.


If Dubai dont have all those things which you want then stay there where you are.


----------



## jixline

^^ so you are the dubai mayor?
stop this crap of " if you dont like it stay away" or " you are just jealous", it is getting silly, plus Sinbad was just mentioning the pros and cons...


----------



## smussuw

The general director of the Department of Economical Development has said some important points about next year. I didn't bother searching for an English version !


Loans will go down by 50% to 100 billions from 200 billions
Dubai will have a growth of 4-6% down from the anticipated growth of 11%
Dubai Government 2009 budget will be bigger than 2008
Number of apartments handed in 2008 will be between 28,000 to 34,000
Number of apartments handed in 2009 will be no more than 32,000
50% of the developers decided to delay some of their projects


----------



## IISinbadII

Raza01 said:


> If Dubai dont have all those things which you want then stay there where you are.


I was just answering a question and stating some facts. Dubai has a lot of other things to offer:

-Beautiful beaches with almost white sand.
-All modern facilities.
-Safe and secure.
-Nice roads.
-Clean. 
-Well built malls. 
-Tall buildings, beautiful skyline.
-Desert and desert safari.
-House workers, maids.
-Metropolitan society.
-Religious tolerance and freedom.
-Lots of good halal food with variety.
-No language problems. 
-Lots of flights available to various destinations.
-Good schools/educational institutions.


----------



## AppleMac

smussuw said:


> The general director of the Department of Economical Development has said some important points about next year. I didn't bother searching for an English version !
> 
> Number of apartments handed in 2008 will be between 28,000 to 34,000
> Number of apartments handed in 2009 will be no more than 32,000


That is a massive reduction in the numbers previously bandied around - given the amount of people leaving then the oversupply that was forcast may not be as acute as previously thought.


Full story is in Business 24/7


----------



## docc

Anyone have any details of what exactly Law 15 is all about?


----------



## smussuw

^^ Can u clarify?


----------



## Bobby G

Never heard of law 15 yet?!? Maybe Salem knows, he was hinting something about Land Dep or Rera the other day, wasnt he?


----------



## docc

Read it recently in an interview with CEO of MAG properties. He mentioned that this new law would help in streamlining and boosting the real estate market.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Law 15 has nothing to do with real estate. It is about Groundwater !


----------



## docc

For real? :lol:

Why'd he say that Law 15 would streamline things then? He also said that this law would help unlock a lot of locked units...or something like that.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Because he doesn't know what he is talking about. I guess that is because law (13) was about "Regulating the Interim Real Estate Register in the Emirate of Dubai" and law (14) "Concerning Mortgages in the Emirate of Dubai" so he assumed that the law which will come soon, according to him, will be Law (15)


----------



## docc

Hmmm, i'm not so sure about that, but then again i have heard some wild things lately!

Thanks for the clarification.

Btw, what's with the female avatar? It's nice but why female all of a sudden?


----------



## smussuw

^^ my future patriotic wife


----------



## docc

:lol:

Now, that's an answer i did not expect! Good luck; you're going to need it!


----------



## Arno Salzl

smussuw said:


> ^^ Because he doesn't know what he is talking about. I guess that is because law (13) was about "Regulating the Interim Real Estate Register in the Emirate of Dubai" and law (14) "Concerning Mortgages in the Emirate of Dubai" so he assumed that the law which will come soon, according to him, will be Law (15)


In the same interview, the MAG boss also said "Almost every inch of Dubai is already allocated and planned.":lol::lol: He should take his car and drive around. With its 4100 sqkm, Dubai is a huge place, stretching from the sea to Lissaili and Hatta. Space for thousand of real estate projects and still hundreds of camel farms hno:


----------



## Mistermark

Dubai_Steve said:


> I am planning to retire in a few years. I do not want to work anymore and I have enough money/investments to support myself for the next 100 years. Is it the case that I am not allowed to live in my own property in Dubai.
> 
> oh well looks like I will have to sell up in Dubai and move to Spain instead.


I'm in a similar position - my plan was, 2-3 years from now, to live in Dubai October-March and France the rest of the time (ie when Dubai is too hot). It now seems that, unless I'm willing to run a business there, I may not be able to do this...


----------



## AltinD

docc said:


> :lol:
> 
> Now, that's an answer i did not expect! Good luck; you're going to need it!


Unexpected? He said "patriotic", not anything else like ... I don't know: "doctor" perhaps. :shifty:


----------



## Arno Salzl

Mistermark said:


> I'm in a similar position - my plan was, 2-3 years from now, to live in Dubai October-March and France the rest of the time (ie when Dubai is too hot). It now seems that, unless I'm willing to run a business there, I may not be able to do this...


IMHO, I would not rely on a FZCO for a working and residence visa. Since the Dubai FZ ruling (including automatic visa for director) is conflicting with the very clear, older and federal immigration law, I think that the hierarchy of laws might apply.

We're here in a grey zone.


----------



## AltinD

^^ 6 months in the row out of the country and visa is cancelled. That's the max I can think of.


----------



## Garden city

smussuw said:


> ^^ my future patriotic wife


smussuw, just to bring to your notice there is a hadith regarding muslim women triming or shaping their eyebrows, which isn't allowed in Islam. May want to consider that before deciding on marrying someone

:crazy2:


----------



## Richard Head

^^ How does that happen, the koran was written long before eyebrow spas were invented. What's a hadith?


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Quran is the Word of God and Hadith is what the Prophet Mohammad (SAWW) said.


----------



## smussuw

Richard Head, eyebrow spas or whatever u call it was mentioned in the hadith !



Garden city said:


> smussuw, just to bring to your notice there is a hadith regarding muslim women triming or shaping their eyebrows, which isn't allowed in Islam. May want to consider that before deciding on marrying someone
> 
> :crazy2:


Don't worry, I've already considered that ! :cheers:


----------



## foxy

Richard Head said:


> ^^ How does that happen, the koran was written long before eyebrow spas were invented. What's a hadith?


^^ Whats an eyebrow spa?

Sounds innocent enough to me. If you give religious nutters too much to find fault with you end up creating monsters.

Live and let live (in peace).


----------



## smussuw

Live and let live my foot, there is no such thing !


----------



## docc

^^ :lol:

Smussuw, you're awesome. No sarcasm intended.


----------



## Adel

The trend now is removing the whole eyebrow and tatoowing the eyebrow shape on or painting it. I don't think Prophet Mohammed had the time or interest to teach women what to do with their body hair, Most probably this hadith is a lie (موضوع) and most women don't follow it even if they beleive it's true.


----------



## AltinD

^^ That trend is creepy.


----------



## laidback74

deleted


----------



## docc

Also, i've seen a lot of sign boards saying "Al Maktoum Wedding" all around Dubai. It's just weird that there isn't more noise being made about it considering it's a ROYAL wedding.


----------



## Philippa C

Apparently the ruler's eldest daughter is getting married at the Trade Centre.


----------



## hot4dubai

dubaigreen said:


> Mmmm, not sure what the impact on Dubai investments will be, but the rumour on the situation of the Ruler of Dubai and the latest action of one of his Son (announcement soon, you probably know what I am referring to), seems to be true. What else can happen at the same time...I hope Dubai remains progressive and continue his vision.


^^I seriously have no idea what you are going on about??? Can you explain without talking in riddles please?


----------



## dubaigreen

Ok, sorry, I should not have put this on the web, I was just shocked. Let's wait a few days to see if is true, until than, forget about my post


----------



## smussuw

Richard Head said:


> Smussuw, where did you see / hear this?


I read it on WAM today but it isn't online anymore :dunno:



Philippa C said:


> Apparently the ruler's eldest daughter is getting married at the Trade Centre.


She is his 2nd daughter and she already got married last week.


----------



## Mavekris

dubaigreen said:


> Ok, sorry, I should not have put this on the web, I was just shocked. Let's wait a few days to see if is true, until than, forget about my post



^^You are the first one to post this on the web.

But hope it is not true:bash:That will be the end


----------



## Ben40

smussuw said:


> I read it on WAM today but it isn't online anymore :dunno:
> 
> She is his 2nd daughter and she already got married last week.



Side issue, but do you know her name?


----------



## smussuw

^^ Hessa, why? lol


----------



## hot4dubai

Mavekris said:


> ^^You are the first one to post this on the web.
> 
> But hope it is not true:bash:That will be the end


^^What??????? This morning everyone was going on and on about eyebrows and that was puzzling enough. Now you r going on about something which is llike give us a clue but without any answers?


----------



## bjassin

Mavekris said:


> ^^You are the first one to post this on the web.
> 
> But hope it is not true:bash:That will be the end


Oh...wow...I LOVE speculation about the END OF THE WORLD...so, what is it? Let me guess with some options:

1. Dubai will be used as a landing place for space aliens that are coming to EAT human beings ! Of course, I am sure that if space aliens need a place to live, some people on this forum will be more than happy to show them some nice rentals in Duba !!

2. People who lost money speculating on Dubai real estate have managed to get their hands on 10 nuclear bombs that they have placed all over Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, and Saudi Arabia--their plan is to destroy all the cities AROUND Dubai so that Dubai real estate will go up in value and thus they can sell at a profit !!

So, am I close?? If it's not one of the above, then I don't REALLY think it will be anywhere close to 'the end'??

BJ


----------



## Richard Head

dubaigreen said:


> Ok, sorry, I should not have put this on the web, I was just shocked. Let's wait a few days to see if is true, until than, forget about my post


Errrr..............wut? You haven't put anything on the web, other than to say there's a rumour going round about something. Not really something you need to be ashamed about


----------



## Mavekris

bjassin said:


> Oh...wow...I LOVE speculation about the END OF THE WORLD...so, what is it? Let me guess with some options:
> 
> 1. Dubai will be used as a landing place for space aliens that are coming to EAT human beings ! Of course, I am sure that if space aliens need a place to live, some people on this forum will be more than happy to show them some nice rentals in Duba !!
> 
> 2. People who lost money speculating on Dubai real estate have managed to get their hands on 10 nuclear bombs that they have placed all over Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, and Saudi Arabia--their plan is to destroy all the cities AROUND Dubai so that Dubai real estate will go up in value and thus they can sell at a profit !!
> 
> So, am I close?? If it's not one of the above, then I don't REALLY think it will be anywhere close to 'the end'??
> 
> BJ


^^Yes right ..
only event left out in 2008 is alliens invading earth:lol:


----------



## Ben40

smussuw said:


> ^^ Hessa, why? lol



I worked for her a few years ago, via her father, she was quite a big young lady, but very nice and generous? SMALL WORLD..


----------



## hot4dubai

smussuw said:


> I read it on WAM today but it isn't online anymore :dunno:
> 
> She is his 2nd daughter and she already got married last week.


^^As our Emirati "voice"on this forum and picking up Docc's earlier point, can I ask you why are occasions such as a royal wedding and other such occasions not reported in the press. I would of thought they would have been cause for a national celebration. Forgive my ignorance but I am fairly new to Dubai...

In England royal weddings, births etc are big news!


----------



## Bimcnorth

smussuw said:


> I read it on WAM today but it isn't online anymore :dunno:
> .



They put a "Don´t use" patch on it earlier with the XXX signs...Apparently not the finished statement yet.



> WAM WE CANCEL OUR STORY SLUGGED 'Mohammed Bin Rashid issues new Tenancy Law in Dubai'. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM USING IT. WAM/AB WAM 1414 2008/12/26 More ...


----------



## smussuw

^^ So I wasn't hallucinating? :happy:



Ben40 said:


> I worked for her a few years ago, via her father, she was quite a big young lady, but very nice and generous? SMALL WORLD..


Sheikha Hessa never came to the public so I don't know how she looks like. I thought Sheikha Latifa was the big young lady 



hot4dubai said:


> ^^As our Emirati "voice"on this forum and picking up Docc's earlier point, can I ask you why are occasions such as a royal wedding and other such occasions not reported in the press. I would of thought they would have been cause for a national celebration. Forgive my ignorance but I am fairly new to Dubai...
> 
> In England royal weddings, births etc are big news!


When Sheikh Mohammad eldest daughter married Sheikh Mansour Bin Zayed (Sheikh Zayed son) it was all over the news but the current marriage wasn't covered at all. When Sheikh Mohammad 2nd wife gave birth it was announced in the media but this doesn't happen with the royal family in Abu Dhabi for example. It depends but don't ask me on what because it seems random to me. Usually those things are seen as their private issues and only recently they allow it to be broadcast in the media.


----------



## agod

I am absolutely devastated by this news, of the residency laws, as you lads know, I own a 2 bed in Dubai Marina, 2 more 2 beds in the same area, and a office in DSO, I have put my life savings, many hundreds of thousands of pounds, into Dubai, and was going to retire there this year, all the shipping has been ordered, and the cat has had her injections, and we are going in February, I know find out that because I am 59 years of age, I will probably be refused a 3 year visa, all I wanted to do was retire there, and live of my income from the other apartments, i am not a flipper or speculator, I am tearing my hair out with worry now that I will not be allowed into a place I love, if anyone has any suggestions I would be glad to here them.

I think I will email his highness Sheik Mohammed, and see if he realizes, that without some kind of clear cut laws, no one will come to Dubai, and all those apartments will remain empty, and his dream and mine, of Dubai will fail.

Alan


----------



## dubaimarina2008

I also want to invest to Dubai but now there is too many laws against my investment.


----------



## Mistermark

Garden city said:


> smussuw, just to bring to your notice there is a hadith regarding muslim women triming or shaping their eyebrows, which isn't allowed in Islam. May want to consider that before deciding on marrying someone
> 
> :crazy2:


Is this definitely the case? When I went to Dubai in the summer I was struck by how heavily plucked most of the Emirati women's eyebrows were. I know women aren't allowed to have body hair in Islam so assumed this was part of the same thing, not letting women be in their natural state.


----------



## worried1

*Why is residence visa important*

Can somebody please explain why residence visa is important? If I plan to stay in Dubai for 2 months a year, can I not get a tourist visa for 2 months?

I know opening a bank account is impossible without residence visa (to collect my rent), but appart from a bank account, I cant see any other problems with a toursit visa for 2 months.

Any clarification will be helpful


----------



## True Blue

smussuw said:


> I think some job titles are exempt from this rule i.e *engineers, senior managers*, investors ...


Atlast some sense from all this. Some countries also issue visas where you have a genuine University Degree in a main stream profession. This would give me some solace and re kindle the passion for Dubai. 

Lets have a tiered resident visa system of Professionals, Engineers Doctors etc, then working classes like taxi drivers maids and shop assistants then bottom classes like Lawyers, Real estate agents and the like

^^ Only kidding


----------



## Imre

skdubai said:


> offices like that are available??? anyways, the trade license is 15000 and the maintenance is based on sq footage...


Ajman Freezone , virtual office was 18.000 dhs/year, I paid 450 dhs /year maintenance +7000 for the trade licence, so total 25.450 dhs.

every year increasing, I think in 2009 I will pay around 27-28.000 dhs


----------



## Imre

worried1 said:


> Can somebody please explain why residence visa is important? If I plan to stay in Dubai for 2 months a year, can I not get a tourist visa for 2 months?
> 
> I know opening a bank account is impossible without residence visa (to collect my rent), but appart from a bank account, I cant see any other problems with a toursit visa for 2 months.
> 
> Any clarification will be helpful


you can open a bank account without visa, savings account .


----------



## disgruntled

Cyrus55 said:


> London-based property adviser, Mohammed Kashani-Akhavan took a full-page advertisement in Gulf News to make his case for Dubai property now representing a great opportunity for buyers.
> 
> It was interesting to see this statement from an individual who claimed 27 years of experience in the UK, as a successful property investor who had always followed the old mantra of buying cheap when everybody else was selling.
> 
> 
> Distressed sales only
> That certainly appears to characterise the Dubai real estate market as the year draws to a close. There are a large number of properties on the market in all categories, and the only ones that are selling are negotiating distressed prices.
> 
> Kashani-Akhavan argued that the cancellation of many projects in Dubai would reduce the upcoming supply of property and ensure 'significant growth in the value of Dubai properties in the future', and that the rate of return on rental properties makes 'Dubai one of the best cities in the world for long-term property investment'.
> 
> But then the counter-argument is that many local companies are downsizing their staffing levels - not least the real estate and property development groups - and this is likely to change demand for property in the near term, possibly putting a cap on rental prices.
> 
> Then again, Kashani-Akhavan has it right when he talks about Dubai's 'capable and committed leadership that has managed to turn Dubai into one of the most important cities in the world' and that this should give investors 'every confidence in Dubai's future prosperity'.
> 
> 
> Boom gone bust
> But it is clear that Dubai is going through something of a consolidation period and the $80bn debt mountain is going to take some time to clear. Some would say the bigger the boom, the bigger the bust, although that is not always the case in emerging markets, particularly ones with the underlying business economics of the UAE.
> 
> In the case of the UAE, the reasoning is that the oil price should hit its cyclical low early next year, and then recover as the global bailouts and stimulus packages kick in.
> 
> Given a six-month time lag between oil prices and the real economy of the UAE that might count property out for most of 2009.
> 
> However, the recovery cycle could still prove surprisingly swift, just as the downturn this autumn has proven surprisingly fast. In that case accumulating Dubai property at depressed prices has to be a winner, as Kashani-Akhavan suggests.
> 
> See also:
> Dubai market at 'tipping point' as Rera warns against halting payments


Why does he not mention that he is the managing director of Bonnington group. developers of bonnington tower in jlt and of some abandoned projects.


----------



## Imre

*Dubai tenants sing the rental blues *



Dubai: Maheshwar Agrawal got a nasty surprise when his landlord served him a letter notifying him that his rent would be increased by 50 per cent. He protested at first, and then pleaded with the landlord to bring it down to a reasonable amount. 

The Indian expatriate's request fell on deaf ears. With his family, he moved out to Muheisna, Sector Four, where the new accommodation suited his budget. 

"My life turned upside down," Agrawal said. "Now from my new place, the distance to office is about 50 kilometres and takes almost two hours. Earlier, it took about 30 to 45 minutes.

"It's also a problem for my daughter going to her school. It's so frustrating. The landlords here are making a killing." 


The rent was increased from Dh35,000 to Dh55,000 for the 600 square foot, one-bedroom flat in Bur Dubai behind the Old Pakistani Consulate, he says. 

The justification of the landlord, who stays in the same building along with his sons, was that he needed the flat for one of his sons. 

Agrawal says he found out later it has been rented out to a new tenant. 

It's the time of year when rental agreements for thousands of tenants are up for renewal and landlords and real estate management companies spring similar surprises. 

Flouting rent laws

While some exceed the rent caps without qualms, there are other landlords and leasing companies who, while respecting the rent caps, add new elements which were not a part of the original agreement: service or maintenance fees and car parking charges. 

And as many readers have written to us, rent increases this year have varied from Dh2,500 to Dh25,000. 

"Our real estate company came up with new fees to increase the rent in an indirect way," says a resident of a building managed by Al Naboudah Real Estate. 

"The name of the building is Juma Al Naboudah and it is just beside the Iranian Hospital.

"They have asked for an additional five per cent of the rent value as a service charge - service charge for what? Dh500 will be renewal fees; and Dh3,000 will be levied as parking charge. 

"This is ridiculous and I think the government should protect the people from these greedy landlords." 

Another Al Naboudah Real Estate tenant in one of their other rental units - Al Dana Building on Al Maktoum Street - said that the new tenancy contract added a Dh2,500 maintenance fee and a Dh500 renewal fee. 

When Gulf News put forward the charges to the company, asking how they could justify the increases when it was not a part of the original contract, they asked for a couple of days to get back to us. 

They had not done so at the time of going to print. The newspaper called again, but follow-up was futile. 

Ajmal Real Estate, which is both a developer and a broker and manages buildings, has also added maintenance fees and car parking charges. 

After the first year, in a renewal letter to S.S., the tenant of a studio, the company said the maintenance charge was going to be Dh5,000 and the car parking charge would be Dh3,000, none of which was mentioned in the original contract a year ago. 

The annual rent for the studio in Al Muraqqabat is Dh53,000. 

S.S. and her husband, after consulting lawyers, informed the company that the charges were illegal. 

The company in the letter informed tenants that they would be charged Dh100 per day and that the contract would be terminated on account of non-renewal. 

"The quality of the building is poor and the worst part is it's a new building," S.S. says. 

"The air conditioning stopped working on many days last summer and it became almost a monthly problem.

"And in the first few months, the allotted car parking space was always occupied by someone else from another building and they would not take any responsibility.

"The security is never there after 9pm and the company said it cannot provide security at night," S.S. said. 

After a flurry of emails and phone calls from the tenant, the company grudgingly agreed to do away with the newly added charges. 

But S.S. could not help but share her "unusual" maintenance contract, which accompanied with the renewal letter. 

Bizarre clauses

"It's the most bizarre I have ever seen. Imagine if there is earthquake damage, the tenant has to pay for it.

"Also, if the AC compressor or motor goes bad, the tenant has to pay. In fact this year, the AC motor had to be replaced and they had asked for Dh300-Dh400, which my husband refused to pay." 

Going through the readers' mails, Gulf News has come across a number of cases in which tenants have either agreed to the new conditions to avoid the hassles of finding a new apartment or house or have left the old premises to more affordable accommodation. 

When contacted, most are reluctant to have their names published in the paper. They say with their families here they are simply scared about the reactions of their landlords and companies. 

And most, if not all, have not even entertained the thought of approaching the rent disputes committee to file a complaint against what they deem to be unreasonable hikes.

Commendation

Landlords and leasing companies cannot be stereotyped, 
say many tenants

All landlords and leasing companies cannot be tarred with the same broad brush as being greedy and unprofessional.
In several instances, tenants gushed about their landlords or companies and in most cases, they have continued staying in the same premises for years and they have no intention of leaving their current place. All feel lucky to have such a pleasant relationship amid what is otherwise an agonising state of affairs. 

Mary Jane Semine has been renting a three bedroom flat in Deira for the last nine years, after entering into a lease contract with Buhaleeba Real Estate.

"Since the time I rented, the company has always abided by the law," says Semine. "They have not increased the rent unreasonably and when the rent cap came into effect, they have increased only by that percentage of the cap. They have been very professional in dealing with tenants. I feel lucky to have entered into a contract with Buhaleeba Real Estate."
And for not charging a bit for maintenance, which is all part of the rent, Asteco comes in for special praise.

Partha Sarathi Dutta, a resident for 11 years in an Asteco Muraqqabat one-bedroom apartment, for which he pays Dh42,000 says not only have they followed the rent caps, but also the maintenance has been excellent. "In fact, they even change the light bulbs. They are very fair, very professional and we are very happy." 
- G.G.

(Gulfnews)


----------



## Imre

Buyers coming back ,  I got by email:


Cash Buyer 30M for Burj Dubai Tall Tower - DISTRESS SALES ONLY

I have a CASH (30M) buyer looking to pickup as many tall tower units (residential or commercial) at DISTRESS SALE ONLY. 
He wants the best price/sqft and unit number (height and view).
Please reply with property details and agent contact details.

Regards,


----------



## skdubai

Imre said:


> Ajman Freezone , virtual office was 18.000 dhs/year, I paid 450 dhs /year maintenance +7000 for the trade licence, so total 25.450 dhs.
> 
> every year increasing, I think in 2009 I will pay around 27-28.000 dhs


ooo... thanx for the info...

*Banks to tighten lending further*

http://gulfnews.com/business/Banking_and_Finance/10270532.html


----------



## aviduser

Is it me or does this project sum up the hubris of the Dubai dream. It's not exactly the Gold Coast on Dubai creek, look left a flyover look right a sewage discharge


----------



## IISinbadII

worried1 said:


> Can somebody please explain why residence visa is important? If I plan to stay in Dubai for 2 months a year, can I not get a tourist visa for 2 months?
> 
> I know opening a bank account is impossible without residence visa (to collect my rent), but appart from a bank account, I cant see any other problems with a toursit visa for 2 months.
> 
> Any clarification will be helpful


Some follks want to move to Dubai and live there. Some want to retire in Dubai. Some want visa so that they can educate their kids in Dubai and yet there are others who dont want to live in Dubai but just want it for some peace of mind, in case something bad happens back home.... and they have a second home in Dubai. 

But for many the U-turn government took on the property based visa is a bad sign......of more anti-foreign policies to come! If they could take a U-turn on the visa what could happen next.....esp with so many statements from officials coming out against the foreigners and expat community! Would they introduce new taxes? Would they stop the free-hold ownership? Would they throw foreigners out of the country and confiscate their property?

What they need to do is come out and reasure the public that they will continue to give visa to property owners. Offcourse this does not mean automatic visa for everyone....proper procedurs and critaria could be placed in to deter anyone trying to exploit the system.


----------



## dubaiprojects

IISinbadII said:


> Some follks want to move to Dubai and live there. Some want to retire in Dubai. Some want visa so that they can educate their kids in Dubai and yet there are others who dont want to live in Dubai but just want it for some peace of mind, in case something bad happens back home.... and they have a second home in Dubai.
> 
> But for many the U-turn government took on the property based visa is a bad sign......of more anti-foreign policies to come! If they could take a U-turn on the visa what could happen next.....esp with so many statements from officials coming out against the foreigners and expat community! Would they introduce new taxes? Would they stop the free-hold ownership? Would they throw foreigners out of the country and confiscate their property?
> 
> What they need to do is come out and reasure the public that they will continue to give visa to property owners. Offcourse this does not mean automatic visa for everyone....proper procedurs and critaria could be placed in to deter anyone trying to exploit the system.


I just want to tell you that i am not a resident of dubai and i do not have a visa as well. But I had opened an account with HSBC and my rental income is directly credited from the tenants to my account. I just walked into an hsbc branch and opened an account, i can manage my account with internet and also with an atm/visa card issues by the bank.
Cheers


----------



## smussuw

gerald.d said:


> Here you go:
> 
> http://www.wam.org.ae/servlet/Satel...124&pagename=WAM/WamLocEnews/W-T-LEN-FullNews


I've got it now. This was the official wedding while they had a another party earlier !


----------



## agod

worried1 said:


> Can somebody please explain why residence visa is important? If I plan to stay in Dubai for 2 months a year, can I not get a tourist visa for 2 months?
> 
> I know opening a bank account is impossible without residence visa (to collect my rent), but appart from a bank account, I cant see any other problems with a toursit visa for 2 months.
> 
> Any clarification will be helpful


well i believe, it makes life pretty difficult, to registar with a doctor, get utilities connected, internet, buy a car, get a licence, and generally everyday way of life, if you are lving as a tourist.

Alan


----------



## Jodel

*Residence Visa*

agree completely. I think the clue is in the title - Resident visa, as opposed to visit visa.




agod said:


> well i believe, it makes life pretty difficult, to registar with a doctor, get utilities connected, internet, buy a car, get a licence, and generally everyday way of life, if you are lving as a tourist.
> 
> Alan


----------



## dubaigreen

Philippa C said:


> It would be quite easy for the gov to protect national security while allowing in genuine retirees by means of a proper screening of applicants. We had hoped to retire here and while it's some way down the road for us and we have time to change our plans ,it would be nice to know where we stand as we've already been living here for a number of years.
> 
> I'm quite sure the authorities will come up with something soon. They seem able to issue laws and rules at the drop of a hat - one advantage of the absence of a parliament!


There are better ways, you can combine UAE and retirement locations as follows:
(A) Buy a few good apartments and villa's in UAE, of course on easy to rent locations. Do not be greedy, but rent out on a reasonable level, so you can secure long-term happy tenants.
(B) Retire in another nearby location, like Turkey. Why? If you do not have income in Turkey, you do not pay Tax. The only tax you pay is on the house you buy, but that is way lower than the Service/Maintenance cost in UAE. Other advantages: you do get a Visa, first for one year (if you have property), but than 5 year, and even 10 year after that is possible. Even more: it is green in the South of Turkey, always sun, better climate, friendly local people, nice fishing villages and some big cities nearby (if you miss the big cities). The water quality is better, access to local vegetables, etc..and life is cheaper (except for gas/oil), but whoever retires, has enough stuff, you do not have to be in shopping malls all the time anymore.

So, forget about these retirement ideas and Visa issues in UAE. Just use UAE for milking tenants (in a friendly way), and enjoy a great, green, relaxed and tax free life in Turkey.

Just an idea ;-)


----------



## houshang

^^Alternatively! press for a UAE residency, like the rest of property buyers in Dubai.


----------



## Bimcnorth

dubaigreen said:


> There are better ways, you can combine UAE and retirement locations as follows:
> (A) Buy a few good apartments and villa's in UAE, of course on easy to rent locations. Do not be greedy, but rent out on a reasonable level, so you can secure long-term happy tenants.
> (B) Retire in another nearby location, like Turkey. Why? If you do not have income in Turkey, you do not pay Tax. The only tax you pay is on the house you buy, but that is way lower than the Service/Maintenance cost in UAE. Other advantages: you do get a Visa, first for one year (if you have property), but than 5 year, and even 10 year after that is possible. Even more: it is green in the South of Turkey, always sun, better climate, friendly local people, nice fishing villages and some big cities nearby (if you miss the big cities). The water quality is better, access to local vegetables, etc..and life is cheaper (except for gas/oil), but whoever retires, has enough stuff, you do not have to be in shopping malls all the time anymore.
> 
> So, forget about these retirement ideas and Visa issues in UAE. Just use UAE for milking tenants (in a friendly way), and enjoy a great, green, relaxed and tax free life in Turkey.
> 
> Just an idea ;-)



And of course you´ll get perfectly by using english in Turkey...NOT! 

Turkey, not to be disrespectful but anyone could as well move to Syria, less crime, more sun and cheaper living..the only thing you´ll miss is the golfcourses.


----------



## dubaigreen

In the south of Turkey, people speak English quite well. It basically looks like the French Riviera, but affordable. The atmosphere is much better than the Spanish costa del sol.

It is just an alternative for people looking for a retirement and getting stuck with Countries with Visa issues. 

Do you really want to retire in UAE, anyway, just because English is more common? I miss the green looks, the true village/city feelings, culture, cosy atmosphere. Who wants to retire in a concrete jungle with shopping malls and american like cafe's and bars.

Ok, I will stop, back to investments. UAE is still great for renting out properties, so utilize that good asset


----------



## worried1

*Dubaiprojects some clarification*



dubaiprojects said:


> I just want to tell you that i am not a resident of dubai and i do not have a visa as well. But I had opened an account with HSBC and my rental income is directly credited from the tenants to my account. I just walked into an hsbc branch and opened an account, i can manage my account with internet and also with an atm/visa card issues by the bank.
> Cheers



I just checked the HSBC web site, it says Residence visa or minimum deposit of 200000 AED.


----------



## Adel

Or come to Bahrain


----------



## Imre

I got this email on 15th December:

"Our company has several units in DEC Tower in Dubai Marina. We would like to rent out 6 of them and sell 2 of them.

For rent: 80,000 AED/year (2 cheques)"

today they called me , now they ask 70-75.000 AED/year but still nothing.

price is not important if you have no costumers.


----------



## i love dubai

Thats because they are asking 130k to 150k for a 1 bedroom apartment.
check the gulf news adds.


----------



## i love dubai

Imre said:


> I got this email on 15th December:
> 
> "Our company has several units in DEC Tower in Dubai Marina. We would like to rent out 6 of them and sell 2 of them.
> 
> For rent: 80,000 AED/year (2 cheques)"
> 
> today they called me , now they ask 70-75.000 AED/year but still nothing.
> 
> price is not important if you have no costumers.


Are those studio units?


----------



## skdubai

Imre said:


> I got this email on 15th December:
> 
> "Our company has several units in DEC Tower in Dubai Marina. We would like to rent out 6 of them and sell 2 of them.
> 
> For rent: 80,000 AED/year (2 cheques)"
> 
> today they called me , now they ask 70-75.000 AED/year but still nothing.
> 
> price is not important if you have no costumers.



are these those annoying shoe boxes AKA studio's? 

I went into one of them and i almost had to back out the same way i went in......


----------



## Imre

i love dubai said:


> Are those studio units?


big studios:

STUDIO APARTMENT IN DEC TOWER

SALEABLE AREA: from 590 SQFT to 640 SQFT

ALL THE UNITS ARE WITH 

– BALCONY

– CLOSED KITCHEN

– 1 FREE PARKING SPACE

– BUILT-IN AUDIO SYSTEM

– FLAT-SCREEN TELEVISION


when the market was good , was enough only couple days for rent it but now its slow.


----------



## Richard Head

I know someone who has a 1 bed in the Marina at 105k. Been on the market a month, not a single viewing. Plenty of people who now realise they can't sell are thinking about renting, so more properties coming on the market and A LOT less tenants. Prices have to drop for rentals very soon and probably sharply.


----------



## AITU

^^The potential tenants for units in this price range are those that are likely to have either lost their jobs recently (sales & marketing, real estate, retail etc.) or unsure of their short term future. Also, they may not be able to get finance from banks to cover their rent cheques due to the new minimum lending criteria that banks are demanding for personal loans.


----------



## skdubai

Imre said:


> big studios:
> 
> STUDIO APARTMENT IN DEC TOWER
> 
> SALEABLE AREA: from 590 SQFT to 640 SQFT
> 
> ALL THE UNITS ARE WITH
> 
> – BALCONY
> 
> – CLOSED KITCHEN
> 
> – 1 FREE PARKING SPACE
> 
> – BUILT-IN AUDIO SYSTEM
> 
> – FLAT-SCREEN TELEVISION
> 
> 
> when the market was good , was enough only couple days for rent it but now its slow.



and you wonder why no one is interested??? they are asking for 80k for that???? 

add to this a 5% deposit and a5% commission + Dewa etc., and you are paying almost 90,000!!!!


----------



## Cyrus55

skdubai said:


> and you wonder why no one is interested??? they are asking for 80k for that????
> 
> add to this a 5% deposit and a5% commission + Dewa etc., and you are paying almost 90,000!!!!


It doesn't look good at all, I deeply regret that I invested all my life savings on several properties in the UAE! Not sure if the market would recover ever again?


----------



## Imre

Cyrus55 said:


> It doesn't look good at all, I deeply regret that I invested all my life savings on several properties in the UAE! Not sure if the market would recover ever again?


be optimistic

market would be good when banks will give loan again and when we see the new residence visa law.


----------



## smussuw

skdubai said:


> he would not have moved here if he had to stay in a place like mahaisnah!!


What is wrong with Al Muhaisnah? The building I know is only 2 years old. The place is definitely much better than Bur Dubai or Karamah. It also has many exist to different routes leading to the city.


----------



## docc

How's the rental situation in Downtown Burj Dubai?

Ok, so what do you guys think i can rent my unit in Burj Views, Downtown Burj Dubai for? Here are the USP's:

1) 1500 Sft, 2 BR apartment
2) High floor
3) Burj Dubai facing with panoramic DBD views
4) 2 minutes walk to the Mall, The Address and Old town shopping areas.
5) Less than a minutes drive to financial center road and 2-3 minutes drive to SZR.

I spoke to Better Homes today and they said that an achievable figure is 240k which i find a little hard to believe. Btw, they are now charging AED 900 to put properties up for sale on their website and magazine.

So, what do you guys think is a fair rental price for my unit?


----------



## Imre

900 AED ??? :bash::bash:


----------



## skdubai

smussuw said:


> What is wrong with Al Muhaisnah? The building I know is only 2 years old. The place is definitely much better than Bur Dubai or Karamah. It also has many exist to different routes leading to the city.


huh?? i always thought it was like a pretty crappy place ( at least what i saw of it). Must have missed to good part....


----------



## Mistermark

It seems to me the Dubai market has suffered four blows.

First, mortgage finance became a lot harder to get.

Second, when the finance, real estate and stock markets slowed down a lot of people lost their jobs and aren't being replaced. Because people can remain only a month on an employment visa if they lose their jobs, the population growth reversed.

Third, residency visas became difficult/impossible to get for people who didn't need to work. This hit immigration from other Middle Eastern countries particularly hard.

Fourth, the change in population movements may now be creating a downward pressure on rents.

I've been largely optimistic about Dubai but looking at it now I think this could all end very badly indeed unless the Government wakes up pretty fast and starts acting. So far it has failed to do so.

As a minimum, I'd suggest letting people on employment visas stay six months to give them time to find new work, provided they make no demands on the State, introducing a rapid visa process for property owners capable of supporting themselves and having the Government underwrite mortgage lending provided it meets sensible criteria.

That way, an implosion might just be prevented...


----------



## docc

Imre said:


> 900 AED ??? :bash::bash:


Yea. They don't charge you if you want the listing to be internal only i.e visible only by the agents. However, for it to be published on their website or in their magazine, a fee will be applicable. Also, the payment if for a 6 month period after which you will be required to pay again.


----------



## skdubai

^^yea, that is going to help matters.......


----------



## docc

Well, you can't really blame them because the number of sellers has multiplied several fold and if they were to pay for all the listings, they'd have to close shop overnight! Downside is that majority of sellers would not want to pay making it a losing proposition for everyone.


----------



## peacesells

docc said:


> How's the rental situation in Downtown Burj Dubai?
> 
> Ok, so what do you guys think i can rent my unit in Burj Views, Downtown Burj Dubai for? Here are the USP's:
> 
> 1) 1500 Sft, 2 BR apartment
> 2) High floor
> 3) Burj Dubai facing with panoramic DBD views
> 4) 2 minutes walk to the Mall, The Address and Old town shopping areas.
> 5) Less than a minutes drive to financial center road and 2-3 minutes drive to SZR.
> 
> I spoke to Better Homes today and they said that an achievable figure is 240k which i find a little hard to believe. Btw, they are now charging AED 900 to put properties up for sale on their website and magazine.
> 
> So, what do you guys think is a fair rental price for my unit?


I'd say if you get 180-200k for it, you're good.


----------



## dubaigreen

For 180k, I would like to see it, let me know (pm me)


----------



## V Kapoor

When the rents were rising the government fixed a cap.....
Now when the rents are falling.... will the government fix a floor for rentals?
What happened to the rental index that the govt. was going to come out with?!:lol:


----------



## Richard Head

V Kapoor said:


> When the rents were rising the government fixed a cap.....
> Now when the rents are falling.... will the government fix a floor for rentals?
> What happened to the rental index that the govt. was going to come out with?!:lol:


On what basis do you sat that rents are falling? Not much evidence in the market as of now. I'm not saying it won't happen, just that it isn't yet.


----------



## V Kapoor

Richard Head said:


> On what basis do you sat that rents are falling? Not much evidence in the market as of now. I'm not saying it won't happen, just that it isn't yet.


okay.... if and when they do!


----------



## Philippa C

Richard Head said:


> On what basis do you sat that rents are falling? Not much evidence in the market as of now. I'm not saying it won't happen, just that it isn't yet.


We have a 5 bed Alvorada we are trying to rent. In Sept we were trying to sell it and got an offer of 480K to rent it. We declined as were really trying to sell it and thought it would be easier to sell if vacant. 

Now that sales have slowed (!) we are trying to rent it. I was told today by Hamptons they have that 6 beds listed for rent at 400K in the Ranches. So in our experience, sadly, the rental market is going down.


----------



## Imre

expatriates.com:

"Description: I have a villa for sale in Spring 12 , 2 beds + study type 4M. I am moving back to my home country after nearly five years and would like to sell it before i move. 

I am willing to accept 1.2 Million AED , all expenses to the buyer

Please contact me urgently"

cant be true...


----------



## baba toto

I am thinking of asking for a refund of deposit....It has been two years since I invested and nothing to show for it to date.....What do you think?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Property developers in Dubai are urging the government to re-consider its visa policy for foreigners in a bid to restore confidence in its dented property market.

Although the real estate sector has allowed freehold ownership of property since 2002, it suspended the issuing of residence visas to property owners earlier this year and if this decision was reversed it could encourage more buyers, it is claimed.

'The market is in bad shape and needs to be rescued. Buying and selling has nearly stopped. Even although prices are coming down investors are not buying,' said Kabir Mulchandani, chairman of Dynasty Zarooni. 

He and others want a return to the commitment given in 2002 to facilitate three-year renewable residence visas to expatriate property owners, to encourage foreign investment.

'The government should stand firm on its commitment to issue visas for freehold properties, both residential and commercial. They should alleviate people's fears and apprehensions by positively reinforcing the freehold visas rule,' said Syed Mohammad Ali, chief executive of Fortune Group.

'The confusion on this issue has negatively impacted the Dubai realty sector. A constant communication regarding the visas structures should be given to the public,' he added.

Tarek Ramadan, chairman of Tharaa Holding, said the government needs to rescue the real estate market. 'It should re-introduce the property visa,' he said.

He also called for emergency funds to stop prices plummeting, for more liquidity and flexiblility in payment across the value chain to give the real estate community some breathing time.

http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/dubai-real-estate-property-visa-200812302323.html


----------



## one_guy

Dubai cancels New Year celebrations:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/542364-dubai-ruler-cancels-all-new-year-celebrations
http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Government/10271287.html

Well this should put the final nail into the slumping hospitality industry. 

Good luck getting refunds from the hotels!


----------



## skdubai

^^ hope this does not have anything to do with the rumor which is doing the rounds....


----------



## gerald.d

skdubai said:


> ^^ hope this does not have anything to do with the rumor which is doing the rounds....


Which rumour would that be?


----------



## dbxdude

skdubai said:


> ^^ hope this does not have anything to do with the rumor which is doing the rounds....


The rumor i think your talking about comes around every so often. Ive heard it at least 3 times over the years. Dont pay much attention to it. The best rumor this year was during the period when ATMs were temporarily shut down while they tried to stop a fraud scandle... people we actually saying it was because the country was out of money and the lights were going of any minute now... i almost died laughing... Dubai biggest rumor mill in the world, the national inquirer should get there stories from here :banana::banana:


----------



## skdubai

hmm... yea, thats what i thought, but been hearing it from EVERYONE these past few days. Anyways, so no fireworks for new years then huh???


----------



## one_guy

Hmm, sounds like things are being set in motion to transfer Emirates and Dnata to Abu Dhabi.

The next step could be a "merger" with some Abu Dhabi organization (like Tamweel and Amlak). 

But in this case I think that will not be announced officially. Probably a behind the scenes deal.



> *Emirates and Dnata now under ICD*
> 
> Reuters
> Published: December 30, 2008, 23:46
> 
> Dubai: The government of Dubai has transferred ownership of Emirates airline and air travel services firm Dnata to state-owned Investment Corporation of Dubai (ICD), Emirates said yesterday.
> 
> "We can confirm that ownership of Emirates Group Decree Companies which include Emirates and Dnata have been transferred to the Investment Corporation of Dubai under official decrees ... " a spokesman for the airline said, without stating a reason for the move.
> 
> It was not immediately clear if the decision might be linked to a move towards privatising the largest Arab airline or selling a stake in it.
> 
> "The transfer does not affect the management structure nor any of our contracts with employees, suppliers or other third parties.
> 
> "It is business as usual," the spokesman said.
> 
> "Emirates Group Decree Companies continue to be wholly owned by the government although now indirectly through the Investment Corporation of Dubai."
> 
> Meanwhile, Emirates airline received its fourth A380 superjumbo yesterday as manufacturer Airbus achieved its 2008 target of 12 A380 deliveries.


----------



## dbxdude

It says they arent having NY celebrations due to the events occuring in Gaza. After this last quarter and all the global 'Depression' (not in a financial sense) NY would be even more of an event then it normally is. 2008, good bye - we wont miss you. 2009 - bring it on!


----------



## dbxdude

There will be a ton of mergers. Id be surprised if emirates gets taken over though. Then again Abu Dhabi, show us the money! ..... and da liquidity, quickly


----------



## i love dubai

Yes it is because of the events in Gaza...many egyptian TV stations are canceling their new year parties to show respect to the victims of Gaza.


----------



## bizzybonita

*Good news*

Rera sets payment rule 

Wednesday, December 31, 2008 

Starting from January 1, 2009, developers and banks have been ordered to stop taking payments more than 20 per cent of the cost of properties from buyers or investors until construction begins, a Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) official has revealed.

"We have sent out letters to 100 developers – as well as having meetings with them and lending banks and institutions – telling them to take payments from buyers worth only up to 20 per cent of the contract value," Essa Saeed Ahmed Al Mansoori, Head of the Trust Accounts Section at Rera's Real Estate Development Trust Account Department, told Emirates Business.

"With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."

Rera has set up an 11-member Real Estate Development Trust Account Department that will supervise and monitor the construction process and ensure the escrow amounts are collected in accordance with the agreed schedule.

"We have all the figures in our database and are asking developers to stop collecting money from buyers," said Al Mansoori.

Rera Chief Executive Marwan bin Ghalita said developers could protect their rights by referring disputes to the Property Court where contractual agreements would be enforced. "The message we want to send out to the developers and lending banks is to consider the situation of the investor before they take action," he said. "In this time of crisis, everyone should work together and everybody's rights will be protected."

Meanwhile, Rera has announced that a revision of Law No 8 is being considered by Dubai Land Department.

"For new sales and purchase agreements the booking amount has been set at a fixed amount rather than the previous rate of five to 10 per cent of the contract value," said Al Mansoori . "In January, Rera will set up a technical audit team. The new system will enable stricter auditing of the escrow account, the developer and the trustee."

He added that Rera was introducing regulatory procedures covering Law No 13, which established the Interim Real Estate Register. 

A land department spokesman said 100,000 units had already been registered.

http://business24-7.ae/articles/2008/12/pages/12312008_e460414bf0cd4372bed20f0362e9d90d.aspx


----------



## bizzybonita

*Government action benefits end users *

http://business24-7.ae/Articles/2008/12/Pages/12302008_f0a66e1612af497987ba772d7460e3fe.aspx


----------



## HappyLarry

^^*
"With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."*

I am not clear what the implications might be for both the buyer and the developer. Any clarification would be appreciated.:cheers:


----------



## peacesells

bizzybonita said:


> Rera sets payment rule
> 
> Wednesday, December 31, 2008
> 
> Starting from January 1, 2009, developers and banks have been ordered to stop taking payments more than 20 per cent of the cost of properties from buyers or investors until construction begins, a Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) official has revealed.
> 
> "We have sent out letters to 100 developers – as well as having meetings with them and lending banks and institutions – telling them to take payments from buyers worth only up to 20 per cent of the contract value," Essa Saeed Ahmed Al Mansoori, Head of the Trust Accounts Section at Rera's Real Estate Development Trust Account Department, told Emirates Business.
> 
> "With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."
> 
> Rera has set up an 11-member Real Estate Development Trust Account Department that will supervise and monitor the construction process and ensure the escrow amounts are collected in accordance with the agreed schedule.
> 
> "We have all the figures in our database and are asking developers to stop collecting money from buyers," said Al Mansoori.
> 
> Rera Chief Executive Marwan bin Ghalita said developers could protect their rights by referring disputes to the Property Court where contractual agreements would be enforced. "The message we want to send out to the developers and lending banks is to consider the situation of the investor before they take action," he said. "In this time of crisis, everyone should work together and everybody's rights will be protected."
> 
> Meanwhile, Rera has announced that a revision of Law No 8 is being considered by Dubai Land Department.
> 
> "For new sales and purchase agreements the booking amount has been set at a fixed amount rather than the previous rate of five to 10 per cent of the contract value," said Al Mansoori . "In January, Rera will set up a technical audit team. The new system will enable stricter auditing of the escrow account, the developer and the trustee."
> 
> He added that Rera was introducing regulatory procedures covering Law No 13, which established the Interim Real Estate Register.
> 
> A land department spokesman said 100,000 units had already been registered.
> 
> http://business24-7.ae/articles/2008/12/pages/12312008_e460414bf0cd4372bed20f0362e9d90d.aspx


Good news eh. I'm pretty sure I'm going to lose my job now that we will definitely cancel the damn project if this new rule (I looooove new Land Department rules) means what it really means. hno:


----------



## i love dubai

*Starting from January 1, 2009, developers and banks have been ordered to stop taking payments more than 20 per cent of the cost of properties from buyers or investors until construction begins*
Can any one, please, calrify what *UNTIL CONSTRUCTION BEGINS* really mean? Is ground work or preperation considerd construction?


----------



## docc

peacesells said:


> Good news eh. I'm pretty sure I'm going to lose my job now that we will definitely cancel the damn project if this new rule (I looooove new Land Department rules) means what it really means. hno:


What do you think it really means?


----------



## peacesells

docc said:


> What do you think it really means?


Not sure. 'Start of construction' is vague. Does it mean start of soil investigation? Fencing? Site office construction? Shoring? Start of work by main contractor? If you follow the line of thinking, I'd assume it would be the latter. I know for sure that many projects WILL be cancelled because of this as this simply throws individual project cashflows into the bin. You simply cannot make up such rules for ongoing projects! I'm serious when I say this - these people do not know what hell they are doing. :bash:


----------



## docc

^^ Or maybe they do


----------



## Bobby G

Im being emailed by organizers of events tonite especially the beach party that they will continue despite His Highnesses statement last night. How is that possible or even right?


----------



## desertweasel

Bobby G said:


> Im being emailed by organizers of events tonite especially the beach party that they will continue despite His Highnesses statement last night. How is that possible or even right?


Personally I very much doubt they will be allowed to go ahead, this might be a scam to cancel at the last minute and blame CID or municipality thereby not having to refund. 
Having seen NYE parties forceably shut down in 2000 (because it was Ramadan) do not doubt that the police are are perfectly capable of enforcing the rule should they choose to.

Personally I find the decision strange and while the attack on Gaza is terrible it is hardly a new phenomenum and I do not recall any similar edict when Lebanon was being destroyed or indeed during the last Gaza attack? This will be a serious body blow to the hotels who were planning on using tonight to try and supplement their empty rooms.

And still the rumours circulate...........

Edit to add, do not want to appear uncaring or indeed to question the order but it does appear inconsistant with previous issues of this type


----------



## iced

peacesells said:


> I'm pretty sure that by now nearly every brokerage has already cut the basic salaries of staff to near-zero. Rent and other costs are going nowhere, whereas the number of transactions has fallen. How do you expect them to have ANY motivation to sell anything in this climate or even survive as a business if they lower commission rates? A fee to advertise is a great move by BH - it sorts out serious sellers from those who are just fishing and wasting time plus generates much needed, albeit tiny, revenue.


There are already too many agents in the market and regarding motivation until recent agents had to do nothing to entice sales. Now they actually have to provide a service and the good ones will survive. There will be less agents and the remaining ones will be good and hopefully regulated.


----------



## mackie1964

desertweasel said:


> Personally I very much doubt they will be allowed to go ahead, this might be a scam to cancel at the last minute and blame CID or municipality thereby not having to refund.
> Having seen NYE parties forceably shut down in 2000 (because it was Ramadan) do not doubt that the police are are perfectly capable of enforcing the rule should they choose to.
> 
> Personally I find the decision strange and while the attack on Gaza is terrible it is hardly a new phenomenum and I do not recall any similar edict when Lebanon was being destroyed or indeed during the last Gaza attack? This will be a serious body blow to the hotels who were planning on using tonight to try and supplement their empty rooms.
> 
> And still the rumours circulate...........
> 
> Edit to add, do not want to appear uncaring or indeed to question the order but it does appear inconsistant with previous issues of this type


:applause::applause::applause:


Can someone please tell me about those rumours, PM meif you would rather not say on Air. :cheers:


----------



## gerald.d

Likewise!

I'l trade them for a fact:

"12.48pm The Pacha party with Jon Carter will now be held in the Johara Ballroom at the Souk Madinat Jumeirah. The timings will remain the same."


----------



## Goss

Just heard on the radio all hotels have to stop ALL celebrations.


----------



## iced

peacesells said:


> Yep, it's been announced. Don't know why they couldn't have waited for 6-8 months to make the announcement, it ain't doing anyone any good now.


in the past Saudi also was going to introduce income tax rate of 10% but they decided to scrap it. So there is the possibility of this occuring. Am not too sure about this but was told that the UAE did have an income tax system in place but the tax rate is 0.


----------



## jeetha

*Cashflow for what?*



peacesells said:


> I know for sure that many projects WILL be cancelled because of this as this simply throws individual project cashflows into the bin.


90% of developers in JV have been milking investors. Now at least the shoring will have to start before they demand anything more. 

In some cases developers had no intention of starting anyway.

Good start forward.


----------



## iced

peacesells said:


> Not sure. 'Start of construction' is vague. Does it mean start of soil investigation? Fencing? Site office construction? Shoring? Start of work by main contractor? If you follow the line of thinking, I'd assume it would be the latter. I know for sure that many projects WILL be cancelled because of this as this simply throws individual project cashflows into the bin. You simply cannot make up such rules for ongoing projects! I'm serious when I say this - these people do not know what hell they are doing. :bash:


Yes the vagueness of "start of construction" could mean fencing and so the developers could continue to collect money. If however your intrepretation is correct then some developers will go down. it could also apply only to new projects from that date onwards.


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Can someone please tell me about those rumours, PM meif you would rather not say on Air. :cheers:[/QUOTE]

Hi all......yes please share these rumours with us.


----------



## docc

Rumors have been proven false, so please give it a rest.


----------



## mackie1964

^^So, is he alive? Has anyone seen him in person?


----------



## skdubai

yea, i guess he was there at the wedding that happened recently..... as someone said, such rumors come out every other month!!


----------



## gerald.d

mackie1964 said:


> ^^So, is he alive? Has anyone seen him in person?


http://www.sheikhmohammed.co.ae/vgn...10VgnVCM1000004d64a8c0____&date=1230375808047


----------



## Philippa C

I have the utmost sympathy for the poor people in Gaza and think that a toning down of new year celebrations is in order. I hardly think cancelling parties is going to help them though. More pressure needs to be put on Israel via the US for a halt to hostilities; authorities should also demand that the blockade is lifted so that humanitarian aide can get through. Stopping parties while a nice gesture, is futile in helping Palestinians on the ground.


----------



## Philippa C

iced said:


> There are already too many agents in the market and regarding motivation until recent agents had to do nothing to entice sales. Now they actually have to provide a service and the good ones will survive. There will be less agents and the remaining ones will be good and hopefully regulated.


I agree properties were selling themselves! Now only good, serious, professional agents will be left.


----------



## gerald.d

Ouch.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a3OBwliDewxM&refer=home



> *Dubai Bonds Signal Economy Going Into “Depression,” ING Says*
> 
> Dec. 31 (Bloomberg) -- Dubai’s corporate bonds have fallen to a level where they are pricing in an economic “depression,” according to ING Investment Management’s head of fixed income.
> 
> “Giving a price for Dubai Inc.’s biggest names is not easy as investors are nervous about investing in any institution,” Nish Popat said in an e-mailed reponse to questions. The bond market “appears to be pricing in a depression” with “extreme” levels for debt, he said from his office in the emirate.
> 
> The largest state-owned companies in the United Arab Emirates -- of which Dubai is one of seven sheikhdoms -- have $20 billion of debt due next year, according to a Merrill Lynch & Co. report published in October. The yield on the three-year Islamic bond issued by Nakheel Development Ltd., which is building three palm-shaped islands in the Persian Gulf, soared to 32 percent, from 5 percent in January.
> 
> Investors shunned Dubai corporate debt as the worst financial crisis since the 1930s spread to the Middle East. More than $1 trillion of bank losses and writedowns worldwide strangled lending in the Gulf state, hurting its booming real- estate market, while the more than 70 percent drop in oil since July’s peak also trimmed government revenue.
> 
> Still, the exodus from Dubai bonds means there’s good value for those investors willing to buy and hold the notes, according to Popat.
> 
> “Some of the short-duration paper offers exceptionally good value,” Popat said. “The panic by some investors to sell these assets at such levels offers a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to longer-term investors.”
> 
> Companies’ borrowing costs have also risen as the credit crunch deepened, but Popat said he’s “cautiously optimistic” about prospects for primary bond issuance in 2009.
> 
> “Certainly, companies both conventional and Islamic will be able to borrow,” he said. “The question is whether they can accept the new pricing levels.”


----------



## legal eagle

*maybe maybe*



Philippa C said:


> I have the utmost sympathy for the poor people in Gaza and think that a toning down of new year celebrations is in order. I hardly think cancelling parties is going to help them though. More pressure needs to be put on Israel via the US for a halt to hostilities; authorities should also demand that the blockade is lifted so that humanitarian aide can get through. Stopping parties while a nice gesture, is futile in helping Palestinians on the ground.


Isn't it quite possible that other variables are at play that make this an easy decision for them to call?

Like the fact that occupancy levels are at scary lows- hasn;t this given most organised parties a way out without highlighting the problems?

No real harm either as it shows solidarity and Dubai has its balancing act to maintain.


----------



## mackie1964

Edit


----------



## mackie1964

gerald.d said:


> http://www.sheikhmohammed.co.ae/vgn...10VgnVCM1000004d64a8c0____&date=1230375808047





skdubai said:


> yea, i guess he was there at the wedding that happened recently..... as someone said, such rumors come out every other month!!




Thanks for answering in a mature way, makes a change around here :cheers:


----------



## nisha

*Help*

Could anyone please tell me how much would a villa in Arabian Ranches (a 3M, 3 bedroom + study) fetch at distressed sale prices, if not what rent can someone expect? I don't have much details (will have more information later)

Any advice in this regard is much appreciated. I am trying to help someone here. Thanks.


----------



## docc

^^ Should be in the range of 3M to 4.5M depending on a lot of factors such as plot size, location (i.e close to community center, school, gate etc) and villa type (i.e alma, palmera, saheel etc).


----------



## peacesells

docc said:


> ^^ Should be in the range of 3M to 4.5M depending on a lot of factors such as plot size, location (i.e close to community center, school, gate etc) and villa type (i.e alma, palmera, saheel etc).


3M implies Al Reem. Therefore between 2.2 - 2.4M or thereabouts.


----------



## docc

^^ Ahhh, ok, thanks for the info.

Less than 3M for these sounds about right.


----------



## gerald.d

Wow. And to think these were selling at around 4.2M just a few short weeks ago.


----------



## docc

^^ Let the banks start lending and you'll probably see them back at those prices again.


----------



## Philippa C

legal eagle said:


> Isn't it quite possible that other variables are at play that make this an easy decision for them to call?
> 
> Like the fact that occupancy levels are at scary lows- hasn;t this given most organised parties a way out without highlighting the problems?
> .


ld

I know someone who left it until yesterday to book for a NYE function and it was very difficult to find somewhere that was not so out. So even if occupancy at hotels is low, the "parties" were well booked.


----------



## nisha

docc said:


> ^^ Let the banks start lending and you'll probably see them back at those prices again.



Defaults increasing - so unlikely this will pick up now.

Not looking good then :-( This poor lady paid 3 million in Aug. What about rent?


----------



## docc

^^ Completely property will demand more premiums so i'd expect them to appreciate more than the off-plan properties.

On the rental front, she can expect around 250k onwards and higher depending on location, plot size etc.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

In august we were talking about AED 230k rent for a very good 2 bed in Dubai Marina with marina view. What are your estimates now and also for 1 and 2 years time?


----------



## docc

Over the next 2 years, 2 Beds with great views should settle around 180k and the rest should be in between 150-180k.1 Beds around 100-120k and studio's at around 60k.


----------



## THEPOINT

WHATS HAPPENED TO THE NEW YEAR CANCELLED PARTIES THREAD - HAVE THE MODS STOPPED IT ?


----------



## Imre

*Emaar Properties to start a new chapter in its growth story in 2009, says Alabbar 
*


Dubai, UAE; December 31, 2008: Emaar Properties PJSC will start a new chapter in its growth story in 2009 by evolving strategies to face the challenges posed by the global financial crisis and exploring new opportunities, said the company chairman Mr Mohamed Alabbar.

Mr Alabbar said that while several challenges await the property sector in 2009, there are also an equal if not greater range of opportunities. “Emaar will face these challenges with confidence and we will focus our energies to adapt to the changing circumstances. Our strategy of business segmentation and geographic expansion has proven its effectiveness, and we will continue along this path.”

In 2009, Emaar will mark a significant milestone with the opening of Burj Dubai, the world’s tallest building. The company will also add two more properties to its Emaar Hospitality Group portfolio – The Address, Dubai Marina and The Address, Dubai Mall.

Year 2008 was marked by two landmark achievements for Emaar Properties – the opening of The Dubai Mall, one of the world’s largest shopping and entertainment destinations; and The Address, Downtown Burj Dubai, the first hotel under Emaar’s own hotel brand, The Address Hotels + Resorts.

Emaar also strengthened its hospitality & leisure roster with the opening of the Dubai Marina Yacht Club, and its shopping mall business with the Dubai Marina Mall. The company further consolidated its geographic expansion, with new projects unveiled in Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, India and Indonesia.
(Emaar)


----------



## Bimcnorth

THEPOINT said:


> WHATS HAPPENED TO THE NEW YEAR CANCELLED PARTIES THREAD - HAVE THE MODS STOPPED IT ?


You could stop using caps lock you know...

The thread you are looking for is in the Sky Majlis, where else for such a subject?


----------



## Ramin777

It seems that the rents have not been affected that much as expected. Our company just renewed rent contracts for some of the employees, starting from today 01 Jan 2009, and couldn't get any discount from the Owners. This is Trade center apartments on Sheikh zayed road. I don't understand it.


----------



## THEPOINT

Bimcnorth said:


> You could stop using caps lock you know...
> 
> The thread you are looking for is in the Sky Majlis, where else for such a subject?


Thanks sometimes it's just easier to use the caps "full on"


----------



## nri-hotels

*Dubai govt finally kicking out some expats.*

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/5424...-announced-in-visa-initiative#continueArticle

Talk about xenophobic behaviour.


----------



## HappyLarry

nri-hotels said:


> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/5424...-announced-in-visa-initiative#continueArticle
> 
> Talk about xenophobic behaviour.


I disagree.
Rules are rules without which you would have a number of other issues. And, when such issues come to surface, you may have a different outlook.

Don't worry. There are plenty in line waiting to fill 25,000 pairs of shoes.
Happy new year to all.
:cheers:


----------



## Imre

nri-hotels said:


> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/5424...-announced-in-visa-initiative#continueArticle
> 
> Talk about xenophobic behaviour.


"Among those who will be unable to bring family include: make-up artists, cooks, bakers, car washers, grave diggers, tailors, waiters and falcon trainers, UAE daily The National reported on Thursday."

what is the problem with falcon trainers ? :lol::lol:


----------



## Adel

Imre said:


> "Among those who will be unable to bring family include: make-up artists, cooks, bakers, car washers, grave diggers, tailors, waiters and falcon trainers, UAE daily The National reported on Thursday."
> 
> what is the problem with falcon trainers ? :lol::lol:


Oh sh#t my falcon trainer really wants to bring his family, he can't concentrate on training my falcons without them. 

Maybe I'll bring him as a camel cleaner, are they allowed to bring their families?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yes camel cleaners are allowed


----------



## bizzybonita

Banks under pressure on the prospect of increasing loan defaults 


Wednesday, December 31, 2008

UAE faces a slowdown in property loans and real estate activity as the country's property boom loses steam amid the global credit crisis.

The mortgage defaults and property foreclosures is a very serious problem for banks and real estate developers are being hurt as home sales fall, making it harder for them to repay loans. UAE banks and lending institutions have begun toughening their lending criteria. Raj Madha, a director responsible for equity research at EFG-Hermes Holding SAE, said in a report that the scale of banking sector exposure to property developers and contractors means that a problem for the property sector is substantially a problem for the banks.

Moody's Investors Service has announced that it has revised downwards the outlooks on the ratings of four UAE banks - Dubai Islamic Bank PJSC, Dubai Bank, Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank PJSC and First Gulf Bank PJSC. They have changed the rating to 'negative' from 'stable' and the outlooks on the ratings for all senior unsecured debt issued by the above-named banks have also been revised accordingly.

John Tofarides, Analyst in Moody's Financial Institutions Group said that the rating reflects the growing downward pressures on asset prices and the anticipated profitability pressures from rising funding costs derived from increasingly scarce liquidity and loss of confidence. They have said that that soaring loan growth levels and future loan commitments are exacerbating the pressures on UAE banks' liquidity.

However, Obaid Humaid Al Tayer, Minister of State for Financial Affairs said that the outlook for economic growth for next year is positive. He added that Al Tayer said the Ministry of Finance had imposed conditions on the release of payments to banks to end the liquidity crisis. Central Bank Governor Sultan Nasser Al Suwaidi, in a speech to the FNC, said the national economy is strong. According to the IMF estimates, the economy grew 7 per cent this year and it is expected to slowdown next year.

http://www.estatesdubai.com/2008/12/banks-under-pressure-on-prospect-of.html


----------



## aviduser

Errrrrr something nice to say about a project in Dubai.....Yeah I think there are some really impressive towers and some genuinely decent architecture, but there is also an awful lot of dross. 

This project is actually OK IF it had been on the beach, I can't believe this is on the creek, if I am not mistaken about half a mile away dhows drop their waste diesel and rubbish into the creek. 

I was searching for a project that summed up the excess of the Dubai bubble, the project that seemed so stupid as to be unbelievable and could only exist in an over heated market. I thought perhaps the Deira Palm was it but actually this one sums it up better. A luxury hotel with a beach you can't use as it's effectively on a waste inlet.


----------



## glover

i think you are the one here who doesn't know what he is talking about! this is great news and should be considered a leap forward in real estate development in Dubai. linking payments with construction progress is an international standard today. 

and just like how speculators were weeded out by the international crisis, these new rules will weed out shady/weak/incompetent developers. projects better be cancelled after 20% payment than 50% payment.

about 70% of real estate development here is controlled by the big three (Emaar, Nakheel, and Dubai Properties), so no worries here about the percentage of would be cancellations.

kudos to RERA for taking this needed action.



peacesells said:


> I know for sure that many projects WILL be cancelled because of this as this simply throws individual project cashflows into the bin. You simply cannot make up such rules for ongoing projects! I'm serious when I say this - these people do not know what hell they are doing. :bash:


----------



## nri-hotels

How convenient!

Offer easy credit, incentives, visas to attract almost anybody into developing and owning property. But change the laws after money dries up. Kick out the developers, while property still remains for govt to pick up. Why were such laws not implemented in the beginning ?

How convenient.




glover said:


> i think you are the one here who doesn't know what he is talking about! this is great news and should be considered a leap forward in real estate development in Dubai. linking payments with construction progress is an international standard today.
> 
> and just like how speculators were weeded out by the international crisis, these new rules will weed out shady/weak/incompetent developers. projects better be cancelled after 20% payment than 50% payment.
> 
> about 70% of real estate development here is controlled by the big three (Emaar, Nakheel, and Dubai Properties), so no worries here about the percentage of would be cancellations.
> 
> kudos to RERA for taking this needed action.


----------



## nri-hotels

Anybody know about the construction defects in Palm Jumeriah ? Shoreline apts. i.e. settlement cracks.


----------



## smussuw

nri-hotels said:


> How convenient!
> 
> Offer easy credit, incentives, visas to attract almost anybody into developing and owning property. But change the laws after money dries up. Kick out the developers, while property still remains for govt to pick up. Why were such laws not implemented in the beginning ?
> 
> How convenient.


So its a conspiracy? :happy:


----------



## nisha

smussuw said:


> So its a conspiracy? :happy:


No.....think it's fraud...


----------



## dubaiprojects

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/542325-70-of-545mn-ajman-uptown-project-sold

I quote from the above report:
"While other parts of the UAE suffers, Ajman iis experiencing a property boom due to its investor-friendly property laws and reasonable project rates, with the emirate having attracted significant foreign direct investment (FDI), which has exceeded the rest of the other emirates by 300 per cent.

“As the third largest property market in the UAE, Ajman is strategically positioned to attract more foreign investments into the real estate sector, with over 33 per cent of development projects in the area owned by expatriates, as compared to 11 percent in other emirates," said Fahad Sattar Dero, CEO, Sweet Homes Group."

What investor-friendly property???? I thought they are not even free hold but on lease in ajman?

Kind regards


----------



## Bobby G

Those reports are BS. Its like advertorials all over the place here...


----------



## dlnash

i am looking for a decent 5 star hotel in dubai for 6 nights but rates are above $200++
i thought hotel rates had dropped!


----------



## smussuw

As I said in another thread, the department of tourism said that hotel rates will be reduced by 40 to 60% in DSF.



> Dubai hotels will cut rates to attract tourists
> By Shakir Husain, Staff Reporter
> Published: December 31, 2008, 23:29
> Dubai: Many hotels in Dubai will reduce room rates by half during the month-long Dubai Shopping Festival (DSF) as part of a campaign by the emirate's Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DTCM) to boost visitor arrivals amid an economic slowdown.
> 
> The new marketing campaign includes discounts on room rates ranging from 40 per cent to 60 per cent, DTCM said yesterday.
> 
> In addition, hotels will also offer 25 per cent reduction in the prices of food and beverages. The campaign begins on January 10 and continues until mid-February, when the DSF ends.
> 
> DTCM has sent out invitations to hotels to take part in the promotion, a spokesman told Gulf News.
> 
> However, not all hotels will participate in the campaign. A senior executive at an international chain said only some of the group's hotels will be part of the DTCM promotion. Britain, Germany, India, China, Japan, Australia and the GCC countries are the major markets being targeted for attracting tourists, DTCM director-general Khalid Ahmad Bin Sulayem said in a statement.
> 
> DTCM recently held meetings with the representatives of hotels and tour companies to work out packages to boost the tourism sector, which has begun to slowdown because of travel decline.
> 
> Industry sources told Gulf News, Dubai's tourism sector performed 15-20 per cent below their expectations in the last quarter of 2008.
> 
> Dubai has set up a special group comprising executives of the Atlantis resort, Grosvenor House, Jumeirah Group, Arabian Adventures, Alpha Tours and White Sands.


----------



## docc

Errr, it was a rhetorical question.


----------



## docc

DSF will be a good indicator of how bad tourism has been hit.

On a side note, hows global village this time? The fact that they doubled entry ticket prices must have hit revenues a little bit if not a lot.


----------



## glover

another one who doesn't know what he is talking about!!

no rules were changed, Dubai's real estate market is pretty new and needs regulations. only two years ago or so the government began issuing regulations the market desperately needs and are considered the international norm in real estate development. these new regulations are just another set of rules that will boast investor confidence and better regulate the market as it matures.

P.S. wake up, these rules came after a great deal of pressure from investors, not the government.


nri-hotels said:


> How convenient!
> 
> Offer easy credit, incentives, visas to attract almost anybody into developing and owning property. But change the laws after money dries up. Kick out the developers, while property still remains for govt to pick up. Why were such laws not implemented in the beginning ?
> 
> How convenient.


----------



## nri-hotels

There's nothing new to learn in real estate development and investment. Before Dubai started this in 2002, so many countries, for so many years, have established rules and regulations in this field. Why did Dubai govt not study such market standards sufficiently enough in the first place, instead preferring to open the market to speculation and hype. 

I remember Singapore and Hongkong had the same problems of property speculation and shady deals during the mid 90s. But they learnt the hard way during the Asian crisis. Since then such govts controlled the release of land supply which helped suppress such disastrous speculative behaviour during the recent boom.




glover said:


> another one who doesn't know what he is talking about!!
> 
> no rules were changed, Dubai's real estate market is pretty new and needs regulations. only two years ago or so the government began issuing regulations the market desperately needs and are considered the international norm in real estate development. these new regulations are just another set of rules that will boast investor confidence and better regulate the market as it matures.
> 
> P.S. wake up, these rules came after a great deal of pressure from investors, not the government.


----------



## gerald.d

docc said:


> DSF will be a good indicator of how bad tourism has been hit.
> 
> On a side note, hows global village this time? The fact that they doubled entry ticket prices must have hit revenues a little bit if not a lot.


http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/General/10270339.html



> ...
> 
> The Global Village is this year set amid the backdrop of a dark and gloomy economic downturn. Stall owners say visitor numbers are down and that people are spending less ahead of an uncertain 2009.
> 
> Eid Massoud, organiser of the Jordan pavilion, told Gulf News this year's event had been very quiet so far.
> 
> He said: "People have the money, they are just too afraid to spend it. Nobody knows what the future will bring. I would say only about 30 per cent of visitors to Global Village are actually spending any money."
> 
> He said additional advertising could have improved numbers at the event.
> 
> "I think Global Village needs to be advertised more outside of the UAE. It's fairly busy at the weekend but during the week it's dead."
> 
> "Perhaps it has come too early this year - I think it should open from mid-January to mid-March rather than mid-December to mid-February," he said.
> 
> As the credit crunch begins to bite, many residents may think twice before they travel to Global Village, especially with the hassle of trying to battle through the notoriously long traffic jams that form every year along the Emirates Road.


----------



## nisha

Roads and malls were packed yesterday......looks like everyone's back from holidays (so Dubai looking like a ghost town was temporary). We drove past Al Dhiyafah and found restaurants were nearly full.

Back to the grind then for us from Sunday.


----------



## docc

^^ Where are they going to go? Whole world is screwed as of now! Except for the redundancies, i doubt that a large number of people would voluntarily want to leave Dubai.


----------



## docc

Thanks for the info Gerald.


----------



## peacesells

glover said:


> i think you are the one here who doesn't know what he is talking about! this is great news and should be considered a leap forward in real estate development in Dubai. linking payments with construction progress is an international standard today.
> 
> and just like how speculators were weeded out by the international crisis, these new rules will weed out shady/weak/incompetent developers. projects better be cancelled after 20% payment than 50% payment.
> 
> about 70% of real estate development here is controlled by the big three (Emaar, Nakheel, and Dubai Properties), so no worries here about the percentage of would be cancellations.
> 
> kudos to RERA for taking this needed action.


It is pretty obvious from your post that you know very little about property development. And no, buying a Springs villa and reading Freehold everyday doesn't count as experience.  

First of all, I'd put the amount of property (not land, property) controlled by the big 6 (you're forgetting Tatweer - the biggest one of them all, Limitless and Sama Dubai) at no more than 50%. Their strategy has always been "draw the map, keep a few plots, sell the rest". The 'rest' is developed by companies without Dubai's pockets and as any project, a property development is planned in advance. This includes, first and foremost, cash flow. Imagine now, that in a given project, you've planned to sell 40% of your stock pre-construction, collect 30% downpayments and use those to finance the start of construction. These funds will be going towards marketing expenses, towards plot payments and towards contractor fees. You've achieved your target and are going full-on with the project. Now the geniouses in RERA come up with yet another brilliant idea and force a different cash flow upon your project. You now have a third of your incoming revenue cut-off in a catch-22 situation - you can't start construction until you've collected those payments and you can't collect those payments until you've started construction. You now have to either a) cancel the project, b) adjust by selling more stock, c) invest your own equity into the project or D) put the project on hold until something happens that will either allow you to adjust or continue as planned.

Option A is a feasible option at this stage. And hey, if you're smart, the project is owned by a shady BVI company (there are some crazy bastards out there, mostly locals, that have projects in their personal names but that's another story). Fun fact: RERA lists 834 developers as of today. Welp, most of them are actually off-shores owned by developers and you typically have an off-shore for each project you develop. Heck, even Emaar and co. do that with local LLCs. Yes, your Springs villa is actually developed by Springs LLC not Emaar. You know, so that if you have to cancel or **** up a project, it's only that one that goes down and you're not liable to funnel funds from your other businesses to save it. Cut your losses and declare bankruptcy of the off-shore - let the geniouses at RERA deal with the angry mob.

Option B is not a possibility in these market conditions and requires additional investment towards marketing and other sales expenses. Besides, do you really want to continue in a place like this?

Option C makes the project much less attractive in terms of ROI and that is IF you have the spare cash laying around (hint: most companies don't). Even if you do, you will probably have to skimp on finishing or use chinese steel to save your bottom line during construction and that's not really good thing for end-users. 

So you're left with Option D. If you're smart, you've put a decent delay clause in the contract (up to a year) plus you have a nice force majeure clause handy just in case giving you another year. Sure, your investors may choose to walk away from the project and you will keep down payments. They may choose to tell their mates about you and Dubai and how the authorities are helpless. Eventually, RERA (or the Master Developer) will put pressure on you to start works or face sanctions (it's there in your plot agreement) but you will just smile and politely tell them to piss off or take over the project. 

As you can see, regardless of the scenario, the end user will get screwed over in the end. But I'm ready to listen if you have a different take on things.

No doubt, a regulation such as this can be a good thing - it will drive the costs of development up and therefore the selling prices, but at least the investors will sleep tight. But it has to be done on a 'from now on' basis, not on a 'everybody do this now we don't care' basis.


----------



## Northstar

^^:applause:


----------



## IISinbadII

peacesells said:


> It is pretty obvious from your post that you know very little about property development. And no, buying a Springs villa and reading Freehold everyday doesn't count as experience.
> 
> First of all, I'd put the amount of property (not land, property) controlled by the big 6 (you're forgetting Tatweer - the biggest one of them all, Limitless and Sama Dubai) at no more than 50%. Their strategy has always been "draw the map, keep a few plots, sell the rest". The 'rest' is developed by companies without Dubai's pockets and as any project, a property development is planned in advance. This includes, first and foremost, cash flow. Imagine now, that in a given project, you've planned to sell 40% of your stock pre-construction, collect 30% downpayments and use those to finance the start of construction. These funds will be going towards marketing expenses, towards plot payments and towards contractor fees. You've achieved your target and are going full-on with the project. Now the geniouses in RERA come up with yet another brilliant idea and force a different cash flow upon your project. You now have a third of your incoming revenue cut-off in a catch-22 situation - you can't start construction until you've collected those payments and you can't collect those payments until you've started construction. You now have to either a) cancel the project, b) adjust by selling more stock, c) invest your own equity into the project or D) put the project on hold until something happens that will either allow you to adjust or continue as planned.
> 
> Option A is a feasible option at this stage. And hey, if you're smart, the project is owned by a shady BVI company (there are some crazy bastards out there, mostly locals, that have projects in their personal names but that's another story). Fun fact: RERA lists 834 developers as of today. Welp, most of them are actually off-shores owned by developers and you typically have an off-shore for each project you develop. Heck, even Emaar and co. do that with local LLCs. Yes, your Springs villa is actually developed by Springs LLC not Emaar. You know, so that if you have to cancel or **** up a project, it's only that one that goes down and you're not liable to funnel funds from your other businesses to save it. Cut your losses and declare bankruptcy of the off-shore - let the geniouses at RERA deal with the angry mob.
> 
> Option B is not a possibility in these market conditions and requires additional investment towards marketing and other sales expenses. Besides, do you really want to continue in a place like this?
> 
> Option C makes the project much less attractive in terms of ROI and that is IF you have the spare cash laying around (hint: most companies don't). Even if you do, you will probably have to skimp on finishing or use chinese steel to save your bottom line during construction and that's not really good thing for end-users.
> 
> So you're left with Option D. If you're smart, you've put a decent delay clause in the contract (up to a year) plus you have a nice force majeure clause handy just in case giving you another year. Sure, your investors may choose to walk away from the project and you will keep down payments. They may choose to tell their mates about you and Dubai and how the authorities are helpless. Eventually, RERA (or the Master Developer) will put pressure on you to start works or face sanctions (it's there in your plot agreement) but you will just smile and politely tell them to piss off or take over the project.
> 
> As you can see, regardless of the scenario, the end user will get screwed over in the end. But I'm ready to listen if you have a different take on things.
> 
> No doubt, a regulation such as this can be a good thing - it will drive the costs of development up and therefore the selling prices, but at least the investors will sleep tight. But it has to be done on a 'from now on' basis, not on a 'everybody do this now we don't care' basis.


Maybe they want strong developers who have a lot of cash sitting on the sides. The weaker ones are phased out. They don't want developers that launch 15 projects, when they have money for only 2, on an expectation that funds will continue to flow.


----------



## peacesells

IISinbadII said:


> Maybe they want strong developers who have a lot of cash sitting on the sides. The weaker ones are phased out. They don't want developers that launch 15 projects, when they have money for only 2, on an expectation that funds will continue to flow.


Define 'strong'. Also, let us know why you think an olygopolistic market would be a better model than one with (relatively) free competition.


----------



## legal eagle

*wow*



peacesells said:


> It is pretty obvious from your post that you know very little about property development. And no, buying a Springs villa and reading Freehold everyday doesn't count as experience.
> 
> First of all, I'd put the amount of property (not land, property) controlled by the big 6 (you're forgetting Tatweer - the biggest one of them all, Limitless and Sama Dubai) at no more than 50%. Their strategy has always been "draw the map, keep a few plots, sell the rest". The 'rest' is developed by companies without Dubai's pockets and as any project, a property development is planned in advance. This includes, first and foremost, cash flow. Imagine now, that in a given project, you've planned to sell 40% of your stock pre-construction, collect 30% downpayments and use those to finance the start of construction. These funds will be going towards marketing expenses, towards plot payments and towards contractor fees. You've achieved your target and are going full-on with the project. Now the geniouses in RERA come up with yet another brilliant idea and force a different cash flow upon your project. You now have a third of your incoming revenue cut-off in a catch-22 situation - you can't start construction until you've collected those payments and you can't collect those payments until you've started construction. You now have to either a) cancel the project, b) adjust by selling more stock, c) invest your own equity into the project or D) put the project on hold until something happens that will either allow you to adjust or continue as planned.
> 
> Option A is a feasible option at this stage. And hey, if you're smart, the project is owned by a shady BVI company (there are some crazy bastards out there, mostly locals, that have projects in their personal names but that's another story). Fun fact: RERA lists 834 developers as of today. Welp, most of them are actually off-shores owned by developers and you typically have an off-shore for each project you develop. Heck, even Emaar and co. do that with local LLCs. Yes, your Springs villa is actually developed by Springs LLC not Emaar. You know, so that if you have to cancel or **** up a project, it's only that one that goes down and you're not liable to funnel funds from your other businesses to save it. Cut your losses and declare bankruptcy of the off-shore - let the geniouses at RERA deal with the angry mob.
> 
> Option B is not a possibility in these market conditions and requires additional investment towards marketing and other sales expenses. Besides, do you really want to continue in a place like this?
> 
> Option C makes the project much less attractive in terms of ROI and that is IF you have the spare cash laying around (hint: most companies don't). Even if you do, you will probably have to skimp on finishing or use chinese steel to save your bottom line during construction and that's not really good thing for end-users.
> 
> So you're left with Option D. If you're smart, you've put a decent delay clause in the contract (up to a year) plus you have a nice force majeure clause handy just in case giving you another year. Sure, your investors may choose to walk away from the project and you will keep down payments. They may choose to tell their mates about you and Dubai and how the authorities are helpless. Eventually, RERA (or the Master Developer) will put pressure on you to start works or face sanctions (it's there in your plot agreement) but you will just smile and politely tell them to piss off or take over the project.
> 
> As you can see, regardless of the scenario, the end user will get screwed over in the end. But I'm ready to listen if you have a different take on things.
> 
> No doubt, a regulation such as this can be a good thing - it will drive the costs of development up and therefore the selling prices, but at least the investors will sleep tight. But it has to be done on a 'from now on' basis, not on a 'everybody do this now we don't care' basis.


Incredible post- brilliant peacesells


----------



## legal eagle

*But*

Many of the secondary developers took huge advantage of the non-construction linked payments to line their own pockets further then they could have ever imagined possible!

In one Al fajer project as much as 80% had been collected on a tower not even out of the ground.

If you are skim reading this, stop and think about that for a second.


At an 80% level of cash collected, a developer has collected his own profits, is sitting on interest income of millions and delivering jack to end customers.

It is probably worth putting up with pressure from RERA whose fines are less then the profits.


I beleive this structure became a business model for some to get rich fast, hence we saw one developer launching many projects without delivering one, as they exhausted this 'little' policed avenue.

Bastards really as this is hard earned cash for many (and its the many that are the backbone of Dubai's continuance) who have nothing to show for it.


----------



## IISinbadII

peacesells said:


> Define 'strong'. Also, let us know why you think an olygopolistic market would be a better model than one with (relatively) free competition.


By strong I mean a developer who is financially strong to withstand market a slowdown. Who would not cancel projects or file bankruptcy. 

Dubai market got overboard, IMO. More units being planned/built than needed to fulfill the demand. And by demand I don't mean demand from speculative investors, I mean a need from the end users. Less developers would mean less supply and more stable and higher prices.


----------



## High Times

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=30192096&postcount=11699

Excellent post peacesells. We need more intelligient debate around here, keep it up. Even if i dont agree with everything it is still great to read something that someone has actually put some effort into writing. :applause:



peacesells said:


> let us know why you think an *olygopolistic* market would be a better


*oligopolistic*
_the market condition that exists when there are few sellers_

This is the best word i've heard this year. I am purposely going to use it in as many conversations as i can from now on. 

Love it. :bow:


----------



## Sportmikkel

bizzybonita said:


> What do you think !
> 
> Thanks for the pictures. This is public information provided by the developer and just shows that it took them more than 9 months to dig a hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My question was rather to get feedback from people who have insights to the developer and their current (financial) situation.
> 
> Could the other projects Sheffield has taken on be too big and bought at the wrong time (ie just before the crash) and might there be a risk that Sheffield goes out of business?


----------



## HappyLarry

^^
Here Here.


----------



## AITU

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/542513-dubai-developers-to-be-ranked-by-watchdog

"Ghalita told the paper the number of developers in the emirate needed to be reduced to a more manageable level.

“There are too many of them,” he said. “We need to make the number smaller so we can control them more and they can serve the market better.”


----------



## iced

Peacesells n legal eagle u make some very good points. The worrying part is if correct a lot of people are goin to lose money resultin in further price falls.

However i think that the dubai market is more monopolistic since the big 3 control a lot of the market and thus it is really a state monopoly. 

R u saying that that non govt developers have a market share of more than 40-50%??

Ur points on cashflow are excellent. What is the ROI for developers?? Am assuming 30%+


----------



## Adel

iced said:


> Peacesells n legal eagle u make some very good points. The worrying part is if correct a lot of people are goin to lose money resultin in further price falls.
> 
> However i think that the dubai market is more monopolistic since the big 3 control a lot of the market and thus it is really a state monopoly.
> 
> R u saying that that non govt developers have a market share of more than 40-50%??
> 
> Ur points on cashflow are excellent. What is the ROI for developers?? Am assuming 30%+


Yes I really need an answer for this question too

What is the ROI range for developers in Dubai ?

Also is it only calculated on the price of land that they paid upfront cos they build using people money don't they?


----------



## rexdmx

^^ you need to check if the financial statements of those companies are online as some are listing on the stock excharge...

also with regards to price of land, i think th big three got it for free so try to include that in your ratio calculations


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Only the fitest will survive*

In a new system to be introduced by the Dubai Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) this year, Dubai property developers will be ranked by financial stability and market experience, The National has reported. A regulation requiring developers registering off-plan projects to fully own the land first will also be implemented. The evaluation is aimed at reducing the number of developers, and to give Rera greater control and reinforce investor confidence as falling prices, fraud and contractual disputes hit the sector.

http://www.ameinfo.com/180046.html


----------



## rexdmx

^^ is it just me or is it strange...a goverment ranking companies...shouldn't it be done by non proft independent companies.
i guarantee a conflict of interest arising steve


----------



## legal eagle

*Roi*



peacesells said:


> Dubai market ...I do remember that on one of our projects, we projected ROI as high as 130% per annum!


*Expectations on profits rose significantly after 2005...*

If you take JLT- The towers I know of were sold to intermediaries 2004/2005 for 450/ dhms ft2 approx

*Land + build costs ranged between say 200-350 dhms ft2* (including all the variables of whether land is free/ paid for or subsidised)

So say 30-50% returns for developer, and intermediaries then put the same on (*pushing costsup to 600-700 dhms ft2*) and sold off units individually,half floors etc.)


So as an end user you possibly could have got your hands on a unit for 600 dhms ft2.

However- during the course of 2005 and heading into 2006 the game changed.

When launch prices went over 1000 dhms/ft2. thats a wee bit better then 130% ROI


----------



## peacesells

legal eagle said:


> *Expectations on profits rose significantly after 2005...*
> 
> If you take JLT- The towers I know of were sold to intermediaries 2004/2005 for 450/ dhms ft2 approx
> 
> *Land + build costs ranged between say 200-350 dhms ft2* (including all the variables of whether land is free/ paid for or subsidised)
> 
> So say 30-50% returns for developer, and intermediaries then put the same on (*pushing costsup to 600-700 dhms ft2*) and sold off units individually,half floors etc.)
> 
> 
> So as an end user you possibly could have got your hands on a unit for 600 dhms ft2.
> 
> However- during the course of 2005 and heading into 2006 the game changed.
> 
> When launch prices went over 1000 dhms/ft2. thats a wee bit better then 130% ROI


I'm talking about a project started in late 2006. As I said, it varies greatly from project to project and depends on a million factors, including your accounting methods and your understanding of ROI.


----------



## legal eagle

*agreed*



peacesells said:


> I'm talking about a project started in late 2006. As I said, it varies greatly from project to project and depends on a million factors, including your accounting methods and your understanding of ROI.


Agreed that this is very loosely put together and each to their own- but thats no excuse not to attempt to call it.

For example I wouldn;t bother including the details of yet further profit for the b*stard developer from interest income on funds collected but not spent,


Or how could I possibly attempt to strip bare how a clever developer financed tower number two and three off the back of interest earned from funds collected on tower one(due to a paymt plan NOT LINKED to construction)?


I mean how do they note that?

is it pure profit- does the initial investment in tower 2 and tower 3 go into the column-FREE MONEY or FOOLS MONEY?


:nuts:


As much as your view on ROI may factor in money out and timescales for example, it doesn't matter, the flip side is that the system of non-construction linked payments is FLAWED FLAWED FLAWED.


I sympathise that you may have been encouraged in based on the loose regs tho.


----------



## legal eagle

*2 sides*



peacesells said:


> I'm talking about a project started in late 2006. As I said, it varies greatly from project to project and depends on a million factors, including your accounting methods and your understanding of ROI.


Peacesells,

Most investors were stung in exactly the same way.

If you agreed to develop based on non-construction linked payments (and created a pricing strategy based on this)- then its not fair.

If we agreed to buy on the assumption that a tower would be built in a timely fashion and yields would kick in, justifying the price we paid- then if tower comes 2 years late its not fair to us either.

So whats good for one party is not good for another. We are all hit :lol:


----------



## nxthenx

*Governmentally* RERA will dub *Government* owned Emaar and Nakheel... ha


----------



## peacesells

legal eagle said:


> As much as your view on ROI may factor in money out and timescales for example, it doesn't matter, the flip side is that the system of non-construction linked payments is FLAWED FLAWED FLAWED.


Real estate regulation is a complex beast and merely saying that a system with mandatory construction-linked payments is better than one where it voluntary is wrong - there are advantages and disadvantages in each scenario. Moreover, my argument wasn't about that, it was about imposing one system on projects that were planned with another in mind.


----------



## mission

*Rental !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1*

Question:

At what point does your tenant advise you if they would like to stay for another year or that they would like to vacate the property. I have an apartment in the marina and tenancy completes at the end of April. i am unsure of the process.

Anyone who has any advice or knows the process please advise

Thanks


----------



## legal eagle

peacesells said:


> Real estate regulation is a complex beast and merely saying that a system with mandatory construction-linked payments is better than one where it voluntary is wrong - there are advantages and disadvantages in each scenario. Moreover, my argument wasn't about that, it was about imposing one system on projects that were planned with another in mind.



Ultimately its easier for the developer to abuse non construction linked payments then it is for the end user to abuse construction linked.

What are the benefits of a system that does NOT base payments on construction and to whom?

Of course I sympathise in one instance and that is, if you agreed to invest and develop based on another set of rules.

Things being edited retroactively is never nice, particularly laws- ask the journalist slung into jail by the beauty Maggie Thatcher- she did a number of retroactive manouvres for her/govt benefit


----------



## gerald.d

mission said:


> Question:
> 
> At what point does your tenant advise you if they would like to stay for another year or that they would like to vacate the property. I have an apartment in the marina and tenancy completes at the end of April. i am unsure of the process.
> 
> Anyone who has any advice or knows the process please advise
> 
> Thanks


My understanding (at least, this is what my landlord told me) is that the landlord has to give the tenant 3 months notice from the end of the contract if they wish to repossess the property in order to live in it themselves, and the tenant has to give the landlord 2 months notice from the end of the contract if they wish not to renew.

I'm sure someone a little more professional than myself or my landlord will be along shortly to let you know exactly what the situation is!


----------



## gerald.d

legal eagle said:


> Ultimately its easier for the developer to abuse non construction linked payments then it is for the end user to abuse construction linked.
> 
> What are the benefits of a system that does NOT base payments on construction and to whom?
> 
> Of course I sympathise in one instance and that is, if you agreed to invest and develop based on another set of rules.
> 
> Things being edited retroactively is never nice, particularly laws- ask the journalist slung into jail by the beauty Maggie Thatcher- she did a number of retroactive manouvres for her/govt benefit


Surely the fundamental problem here is the whole concept of having to a pay significant proportion of the cost of the property over the period of construction?

I'm not aware of it being a particularly common policy in the UK for example (the only market I can really speak for).

There, the developer funds the construction themselves, and the vast majority of the cost of the property is only handed over on completion.

If the idea of getting the buyer to fund the construction itself was actually a good one, you would have thought that a country with probably one of the greatest experiences and histories of property construction and property ownership over the last few hundred years would have latched onto it by now?


----------



## diveksa

*Jan. 3*

Source: http://www.alineah.com/dubai-realestate-analysis/DubaiMarina/apartment/147/detail.asp


----------



## legal eagle

*exactly*



gerald.d said:


> Surely the fundamental problem here is the whole concept of having to a pay significant proportion of the cost of the property over the period of construction?
> 
> I'm not aware of it being a particularly common policy in the UK for example (the only market I can really speak for).
> 
> There, the developer funds the construction themselves, and the vast majority of the cost of the property is only handed over on completion.
> 
> If the idea of getting the buyer to fund the construction itself was actually a good one, you would have thought that a country with probably one of the greatest experiences and histories of property construction and property ownership over the last few hundred years would have latched onto it by now?



exactly- its a mugs game- mature markets would not accept it in general.

I believe many people felt that a penalty )that many contracts have) for late delivery was acceptable, but contractually these clauses don't hold a lot of water here.

Either way the system has been hugely abused and is a business model that needs to go- it is too open and encourages unnecessary scandal.


----------



## glover

*hey peacesells*, go take a hike. you show up from nowhere and start lecturing everyone about real estate development.

as others have said here, mature markets with decades/centuries of experience have settled on linking payments with construction, where the developer carries the brunt of the financial burden in the development. who are you to say Dubai does not know what is doing when it follows suit!!


----------



## gerald.d

glover said:


> *hey peacesells*, go take a hike. you show up from nowhere and start lecturing everyone about real estate development.
> 
> as others have said here, mature markets with decades/centuries of experience have settled on linking payments with construction, where the developer carries the brunt of the financial burden in the development. who are you to say Dubai does not know what is doing when it follows suit!!


Can I just highlight that I fully recognise that I am speaking from a position of ignorance here, hence the question -

_Which_ mature markets with decades/centuries of experience have settled on linking payments with construction?


----------



## legal eagle

*off plan*



gerald.d said:


> Can I just highlight that I fully recognise that I am speaking from a position of ignorance here, hence the question -
> 
> _Which_ mature markets with decades/centuries of experience have settled on linking payments with construction?


I am invested in quite a bit of new build in Europe- all linked to construction.

Generally contracts read 10% to secure unit, a bit more on reaching level such and such- and actually most have averaged 50% on completion.


It really is the way it should be too. For the sake of the market.


----------



## Mistermark

legal eagle said:


> I am invested in quite a bit of new build in Europe- all linked to construction.
> 
> Generally contracts read 10% to secure unit, a bit more on reaching level such and such- and actually most have averaged 50% on completion.
> 
> 
> It really is the way it should be too. For the sake of the market.


Construction-linked staged payments aren't uncommon in mainland Europe.In France the whole process is overseen by an independent, Government-appointed notaire, who ensures the construction milestones have been achieve and money is held in escrow. In Spain things are more fluid and the system has led to people losing money.

In contrast, in the UK, we pay a small deposit - maybe five percent - on exchange of contracts, which comes shortly after reservation on a new-build - then nothing more until completion. Plus we can walk away or extract penalties if properties are delivered late (likewise in France).

In Dubai it seems that shoulders are shrugged but nothing is done if properties are delivered literally years late, and while there's an escrow system of sorts it's not transparent and doesn't appear to apply in the early stages of a project.

I think the solution is independent supervision and enforcement of escrow from day 1, with developers able to borrow (if necessary with government guarantees) against these funds provided milestones are met. As part of this package there should also be clear and government-enforced penalties against late delivery to compensate purchasers.

Any less than this and Dubai risks losing credibility with investors, perhaps terminally.


----------



## legal eagle

very well said mistermark.


----------



## worried1

*Lessons Learned*



legal eagle said:


> very well said mistermark.



Dubai had the luxury of learning lessons from Singapore, Hong Kong and the previous Middle Eastern Oil price boom and therefore having a good system in place. Unfortunately, just looking at this thread, it appears that lessons were unlearned and Dubai is going thru the same process of learning. I think once again brown people relied too much on White people as their principal executives and advisors


----------



## peacesells

glover said:


> *hey peacesells*, go take a hike. you show up from nowhere and start lecturing everyone about real estate development.
> 
> as others have said here, mature markets with decades/centuries of experience have settled on linking payments with construction, where the developer carries the brunt of the financial burden in the development. who are you to say Dubai does not know what is doing when it follows suit!!


What I've said earlier is purely my opinion and I tried my best to explain it. Wasn't it you who didn't even bother reading it? Once again, just for the slow people - IN MY OPINION, a) one system isn't necessarily better than the other (I'll do a write-up tomorrow because it requires explanation) and b) imposing a cookie-cutter cash flow over projects that have been started based on a different cash flow will not benefit end-users and Dubai (see my previous post for reasons why). So what exactly are you so angry about?

EDIT: Also, please forgive me for not blindly following the decisions made by RERA and co. I have dealt with RERA many times, been there for days on end and personally met these 'officials' on several occasions, I assure you they aren't the brightest stars in the sky and they do make mistakes.


----------



## laidback74

well said peacesells.

Glover, please don't discourage people from giving well articulated explanations for their opinions. His/her point was very well written and explained, even if it's not universally agreed upon. 

Definitely there is room on this forum for more of what peacesells has to say as well as yourself.


----------



## dbxdude

worried1 said:


> POWER PLAY
> 
> 
> if the owner defaults on making payments
> 
> 
> Potentially if the market continues to deteriorate this could lead to investors selling at premiums
> 
> of as low as minus 25% net to them In my opinion this is a serious concern.
> 
> Best advice at this time is to protect your downside as much as possible by selling NOW


How can the premium be -25 unless its completed since likely most people only paid 10-50%. Its a mail trying to force the market down and get people into a panic to take massive losses. Think about it, if your properties completed then you've paid and you cant get 70% back, its a completed property.... if u paid 20% then if you get 70% back that represents a -5% premium or something like that....


----------



## lovedubai

The problem is that with the current interpretation of the new laws you don't get 70% back if you've paid 20%. You lose 30% of the agreed price plus any other developer's costs (as yet that could be whatever the developer says), and only if they then re-sell the unit do they give you something back. 

People who have paid 40-50% so far yet can't afford the next stage payments risk losing everything they have paid so far. Hence there's so much distress selling. A negative 25% premium seems like a better deal than a loss of 40%. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this!


----------



## dbxdude

if you paid 40% then a negative premium of 25 means you still owe 10%.... premium is based on total value not amount paid....


----------



## dbxdude

also alot of people would like to wait a court case then throw all their money away. why accept a -25% premium when you might get the lot back. Im assuming not everyone invested in unknown developers....


----------



## Mavekris

^^Your id is DXBDUDE which gives me an impression that you are well aware of dubai.

court case in favour of you for not continuing with the contract payment terms:nuts:

my friend got picked up by police in RERA office for asking the money back (offcouse the developer was local) was taken to jail for 3 days.


----------



## Mavekris

lovedubai said:


> The problem is that with the current interpretation of the new laws you don't get 70% back if you've paid 20%. You lose 30% of the agreed price plus any other developer's costs (as yet that could be whatever the developer says), and only if they then re-sell the unit do they give you something back.
> 
> People who have paid 40-50% so far yet can't afford the next stage payments risk losing everything they have paid so far. Hence there's so much distress selling. A negative 25% premium seems like a better deal than a loss of 40%. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this!



Very sensible and short post sad reality in todays market.

I dont see a solution for the present problems in dubai realty market as of nowhno:


----------



## legal eagle

*details*



Mavekris said:


> ^^Your id is DXBDUDE which gives me an impression that you are well aware of dubai.
> 
> court case in favour of you for not continuing with the contract payment terms:nuts:
> 
> my friend got picked up by police in RERA office for asking the money back (offcouse the developer was local) was taken to jail for 3 days.


Mavekris can you be a bit more specific?


----------



## Mavekris

^^Law of the land dont mess with locals.

my friend bought a xyz floor in yzx project, he decided to get himself out of it as there was progress with the project.

He went to ReRa and met the jokers there as usual the employees there are expats and dont have the guts to confront a influential local.

so they kept their mouth shut,local got pissed bcoz my my friend approached rera and eventually got picked by cops.

Taken to jail spent some time with the inmates who made fun of him after listening to his story,he works for a reputed local firm so his employer got him out.

my friend said keep the money thank you very much

cannot disclose the details about the projects etc understand pls


----------



## smussuw

^^ so he went to jail only because he approached RERA? sounds like an Aladin story to me !


----------



## Mavekris

^^Trust me i dont have to convince anyone here

I will post the full details if my friend leaves this country


----------



## Adel

Oil Prices 

http://www.nymex.com/index.aspx

If oil passes $70 all will be well again in the realestate market, even with the global financial crises.

Over $90-100 will create some problems for the ailling world economies.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Not a good comment.Seek Apologies.


----------



## Adel

Also Iran call for cutting oil supplies, and news about USA not being able in the forcible future to spend enough money on research on alternative sorces of energy had an effect, but agree Israel aggression on Gaza was the main reason.

There will be another production cut in Feb for sure, the aim of OPEC is not to have high oil prices but only to keep it from falling down and maintain a range of $70-75.


----------



## HappyLarry

deleted


----------



## HappyLarry

Mavekris said:


> ^^Trust me i dont have to convince anyone here
> 
> I will post the full details if my friend leaves this country


Are you kidding?
Your friend must have been disrespectful to the locals in the process. You know how respect matters in this part of the world.


----------



## Mavekris

^^Innocent people being killed nothing new to indian


----------



## Mavekris

HappyLarry said:


> Are you kidding?
> Your friend must have been disrespectful to the locals in the process. You know how respect matters in this part of the world.


Asking money back bcoz no progress on the project is disrespectful?

I dont agree :bash:


----------



## Arno Salzl

Adel said:


> Oil Prices
> 
> http://www.nymex.com/index.aspx
> 
> If oil passes $70 all will be well again in the realestate market, even with the global financial crises.
> 
> Over $90-100 will create some problems for the ailling world economies.


Just read the book "RIGGED" picturing how Tatweer persuade Nymex to launch together the Dubai Mercantile Exchange.

Interesting to read that Tatweer sells Dubai as a never ending party town for rich Western twenty something.

Meanwhile, 44 millions barrels of oil have been traded last year at the DME, less than 0,2% of the global oil market.

Add it to the DFM and the Nasdaq Dubai and the question arise: is Dubai still a financial centre?


----------



## houshang

Mavekris
^^ I am sure your friend was not the only buyer in that project and hence not the only dissatisfied one, so this would need a group action rather than a one man campaign and most probably a hastely one. I have dealt with Rera in the past and if you have a well prepared case to present to them specially as a group there would be no need for caps to be called in.


----------



## dubaimarina2008

Mavekris said:


> Asking money back bcoz no progress on the project is disrespectful?
> 
> I dont agree :bash:


Have your friend contact his country embassy and media? I think media in England is interested cases like this. It sounds very unrealistic.


----------



## HarryKane

HappyLarry said:


> Obama needs to tell Israel to put an end to it. Enough is enough! hno:


Right now, Obama is too busy building his abs in Hawaii. Maybe Obama's Chief of Staff, Rahm Israel Emanuel, can do something about the situation?


----------



## nri-hotels

Arno Salzl said:


> Just read the book "RIGGED" picturing how Tatweer persuade Nymex to launch together the Dubai Mercantile Exchange.
> 
> Interesting to read that Tatweer sells Dubai as a never ending party town for rich Western twenty something.
> 
> Meanwhile, 44 millions barrels of oil have been traded last year at the DME, less than 0,2% of the global oil market.
> 
> Add it to the DFM and the Nasdaq Dubai and the question arise: is Dubai still a financial centre?


Unless we have a new Gulf war, oil will never go above $50. I am selling now.


----------



## Mavekris

dubaimarina2008 said:


> Have your friend contact his country embassy and media? I think media in England is interested cases like this. It sounds very unrealistic.


^^Indian Embassy will not help. I know is sounds un realistic but its reality.

Till now i have not heard any incident where rera was successful in getting refund to the buyer.


----------



## ianxgrant

nri-hotels said:


> Unless we have a new Gulf war, oil will never go above $50. I am selling now.


Who are you going to sell to? There are very few buyers out there, unless you're prepared to take a loss....

My opinion is that the oil price will track towards $60 over the next three months. There will be ups and downs but the underlying trend should be positive.

I am going to hold my property now and once things pick up, I'll be even less inclined to sell.


----------



## Raza01

Mavekris said:


> ^^Nice to see the price rising . Thanks isreal
> 
> J/K


Just think for a sec before writing....shame on you.


----------



## iced

Mavekris said:


> ^^Your id is DXBDUDE which gives me an impression that you are well aware of dubai.
> 
> court case in favour of you for not continuing with the contract payment terms:nuts:
> 
> my friend got picked up by police in RERA office for asking the money back (offcouse the developer was local) was taken to jail for 3 days.


that is really shocking as asking for your money back is not a criminal offence. Getting it is another matter


----------



## dbxdude

Indeed, shame on him. He can write that but not mention the name of the developer who allegedly got his friend arrested.... things that make you go hmmm.... there are always to sides to every story.


----------



## dbxdude

anyway, lets ignore that comment b4 they shut the board.


----------



## Imre

nri-hotels said:


> Unless we have a new Gulf war, oil will never go above $50. I am selling now.


no need war for it ,just need an agreement between some oil countries and price will jump again.


----------



## legal eagle

*Imperfect*



dbxdude said:


> Indeed, shame on him. He can write that but not mention the name of the developer who allegedly got his friend arrested.... things that make you go hmmm.... there are always to sides to every story.


It is a shame but there is still some leaning on RERA going on- we have experienced it, very subtle tho.

One thing is that it is a new entity and with every step forward it should gain in confidence- its still finding its feet.

Remember Sheikh Mo has committed to clearing out the corrupt as seen over summer (even if this had a 'step back' effect-it showed he was on the right side) with the numerous arrests etc.

Ultimately weeding it out strengthens the life span of the market.


----------



## Northstar

*Al Fajer Developers??*

I would like to know all of your opinions on Al Fajer Developers. Would this developer be one of the ones who would be weeded out??


----------



## Mavekris

dbxdude said:


> Indeed, shame on him. He can write that but not mention the name of the developer who allegedly got his friend arrested.... things that make you go hmmm.... there are always to sides to every story.


Shame on me looser ?

I just posted what has happnd to my friend and how good the laws here are.

Have you got the influence here to get a refund to my friend ?If yes prove you are eligible enough to get the refund and you can take 60% of what has been paid.

All my life savings i have invested here why will i spread wrong information about RERA?


----------



## Mavekris

Raza01 said:


> Just think for a sec before writing....shame on you.


Yes yes shame on me what to do i am mean:bash:


----------



## Northstar

^^ I think they are refferring to your joke about Isreal Slaughtering Palestian Civilians


----------



## Mavekris

^^Oh Ok 

But i did say i was joking.


----------



## Northstar

^^ I don't appreciate the joke.

But your story about RERA is well noted. I have heard about this sort of thing. This is not the first time I have heard a stroy like this. Shiekh Mo has got some serious work to do. Or things will get ugly.


----------



## Arno Salzl

Northstar said:


> I would like to know all of your opinions on Al Fajer Developers. Would this developer be one of the ones who would be weeded out??


hopefully! 
see http://dubai7stars.blogspot.com/search/label/Al Fajer Properties


----------



## ElenaVasiliu

I have a 1 bed apt in The Belvedere,Dubai Marina 930 SQ Ft. Any ideea of how much rent I should expect now that the rents are going down?


----------



## skdubai

people keep telling me that rents have gone down, but i honestly cannot see it!!! I was looking around for the past few weeks and the rents seem to be higher than ever if anything!!!!


----------



## ElenaVasiliu

skdubai said:


> people keep telling me that rents have gone down, but i honestly cannot see it!!! I was looking around for the past few weeks and the rents seem to be higher than ever if anything!!!!


I hope so...I mean the only value left for a Dubai property is the rent, unless of course you live in it.. So any ideea how much the rent will be for the above mentioned flat?


----------



## High Times

Arno Salzl said:


> Add it to the DFM and the Nasdaq Dubai and the question arise: is Dubai still a financial centre?


Dubai never was a true global financial centre. A handfull of Banks in the desert does not make a financial hub. Just because they build the DIFC and tell the world that they are a financial hub it doesnt make it so.

Dubai has the potential to deliver a financial hub for the region. it remains to be seen if this will happen.




skdubai said:


> people keep telling me that rents have gone down, but i honestly cannot see it!!! I was looking around for the past few weeks and the rents seem to be higher than ever if anything!!!!


The problem here is that this forum has many users who post comments that are purely self serving propaganda. These range from blindly optimistic fools that simply do not understand basic economics, to overly pessimistic doomsday warriors who have probably made bad investment decisions and want to spread their misery all across the world. Then there are the developers that try and subtly use the forum to spin press in their favour, oh and don’t forget the real estate agents who either want to push prices up, or indeed push prices down.

I’m not having a go at anyone in particular but the fact is that this is an open forum with a limited number of genuine regular users, and it is not representative of the Dubai real estate market as a whole.

Having said that there are some people who post excellent advice and articles which makes this a worth while source of information.

The caveat I would always add is;

*If you want independent research or analysis then do it yourself as anyone else will always put their spin on an issue.*


----------



## Imre

nri-hotels said:


> Unless we have a new Gulf war, oil will never go above $50. I am selling now.



almost 50 

Oil 49.57 0.76 +1.56%


----------



## houshang

High Times
You are absolutely RIGHT:applause: and above that the more your comments are to the point the more they are ignored, just say things they want to hear!!!!!


----------



## nri-hotels

Imre said:


> almost 50
> 
> Oil 49.57 0.76 +1.56%


good sell more :lol:


----------



## peacesells

dbxdude said:


> The above is a great post. Question, do you think the big 6 and also the big 4 in Abu Dhabi will also act in this manner? I can't believe the whole thing is a Mass Marketing Scam. Give the govt a little more time, they have not come this far to 'blow it'.
> 
> I understand some developers from UK, India, Pakistan, Germany etc walking away with the money, but the Goverment owned developers - surely not. And i think the owners of the developers who run away will face consequences, even if we dont hear about them... Do they really think they can steal 20m USD of Borris the Russian (refering to Borris the russian in snatch) and co and get away with it, hahah, no way.


I think that the most you can fear as an investor from the big government companies is a delay or a swap for another property (as is the case with Trump it seems). Even in good times, companies like Emaar cancelled projects after fully selling them - anyone remember that low-rise development by Emirates Hills entrance - but always either refunded the money or gave owners a chance to trade for another property.


----------



## peacesells

High Times said:


> *If you want independent research or analysis then do it yourself as anyone else will always put their spin on an issue.*


This is an excellent piece of advise. It's about time people started making their own mind about the market. Just about every magazine article you read these days is an advertorial, nothing more.


----------



## Garden city

High Times said:


> Dubai never was a true global financial centre. A handfull of Banks in the desert does not make a financial hub. Just because they build the DIFC and tell the world that they are a financial hub it doesnt make it so.
> 
> Dubai has the potential to deliver a financial hub for the region. it remains to be seen if this will happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem here is that this forum has many users who post comments that are purely self serving propaganda. These range from blindly optimistic fools that simply do not understand basic economics, to overly pessimistic doomsday warriors who have probably made bad investment decisions and want to spread their misery all across the world. Then there are the developers that try and subtly use the forum to spin press in their favour, oh and don’t forget the real estate agents who either want to push prices up, or indeed push prices down.
> 
> I’m not having a go at anyone in particular but the fact is that this is an open forum with a limited number of genuine regular users, and it is not representative of the Dubai real estate market as a whole.
> 
> Having said that there are some people who post excellent advice and articles which makes this a worth while source of information.
> 
> The caveat I would always add is;
> 
> *If you want independent research or analysis then do it yourself as anyone else will always put their spin on an issue.*


:applause::applause::applause::applause:

I keep waiting for your posts, honestly. Gives me a good perspective of how to actually think about real estate investments.


----------



## Adel

Great post High Times :cheers:


----------



## dubaionmap

Mavekris said:


> ^^Oh Ok
> 
> But i did say i was joking.


hno:hnoeople are dying and suffering , u joke on that...hno:


----------



## Adel

.....


----------



## dubaionmap

Tell us what are those rumers first?


----------



## Adel

Forget it most brobably it's bullshit


----------



## dubaionmap

Adel said:


> Forget it most brobably it's bullshit



All rumors are ofcourse! People live on them specially during high times. So a friendly advice is not to get involved in circulating harmful negative rumors of all kinds. Yet don't mind a PM on that from u !:lol:


----------



## FWIW

Rental index completed

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/1/Pages/01062009_509bac6b1ef74ffc9e67849b800ff43c.aspx

but not yet published!


----------



## rexdmx

^^ of course not...i doubt they anticipated drop in prices


----------



## amplesou

pal78 said:


> It is released, according to DSC's official communication :
> http://www.constructionweekonline.com/index.php/article/viewArticle/1/4109
> 
> you are lucky, you will be able to move in it next week !:banana:


i think it means it is released for sale ?


----------



## HappyLarry

FWIW said:


> Rental index completed
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/1/Pages/01062009_509bac6b1ef74ffc9e67849b800ff43c.aspx
> 
> but not yet published!


This could prove disastrous for some investors. If prescribed rent in their invested area is set lower then currently being commanded then it could trigger a property price correction in that area. That in turn may have a ripple effect.

:tiasd:


----------



## 234sale

FYI Dubais Biggest Real Estate Agency only sold only 20 properties in Dec 2008. 

They have a 20% market share of transactions so maybe only 100 properties resold in Dec 2008 by all agencies.


----------



## HappyLarry

234sale said:


> FYI Dubais Biggest Real Estate Agency only sold only 20 properties in Dec 2008.
> 
> They have a 20% market share of transactions so maybe only 100 properties resold in Dec 2008 by all agencies.


Is it no buyers or very few sellers? 
I think it is latter.


----------



## True Blue

HappyLarry said:


> Is it no buyers or very few sellers?
> I think it is latter.


No! The former.

I need some feedback from all you guru landlords out there. In a short term let for 3 months should the rental be expected to include utility useage, TV, internet and phone and air conditioning charges applied by the building manager. Also should the tenant be resposible for paying the new housing fee shown on the DEWA bills. 

I am being told by the agent that short term lets are all inclusive but I don't agree, am I being unreasonable?

Feedback appreciated guys (and gals).

Thanks


----------



## HappyLarry

Hey TB,
Gulf News property Ad section for Dubai has about 8000 entries. I noticed a few months back that it was over 20000 entries. That to me means no sellers. Doesn't it?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

So 8000 for sale and only 100 sold last month = no buyers.

Probably people are giving up on trying to sell, instead renting and holding back units to sell in a few years time when things may be better.

Unfortunately this means lower rents are coming if 10,000 units are being pulled off the market for renting.


----------



## foxy

234sale said:


> FYI Dubais Biggest Real Estate Agency only sold only 20 properties in Dec 2008.
> 
> They have a 20% market share of transactions so maybe only 100 properties resold in Dec 2008 by all agencies.


Who is the biggest RE agency and how did you get this info?


----------



## True Blue

^^:lol: A guy in the pub told him........... If you only knew

I love the thing about Mr Sales location, Dubai or Brighton. Just ask a policeman, he will clear things up for you.



> Hey TB,
> Gulf News property Ad section for Dubai has about 8000 entries. I noticed a few months back that it was over 20000 entries. That to me means no sellers. Doesn't it?


I think the reason for the reduced advertising was a general slow down due to the holidays. Lots of expats leave Dubai for xmas and new year. No point in advertising for the tourists.

I went round the RE shops during December to fact find about renting or selling my apartments or a mixture of both. The only other people that I saw were doing the exact same. I didn't see one buyer. The following day I got an offer for my 2 bed in Dorrabay but it was much less than what I was prepared to negotiate down to. 1 buyer looking for a decent profit in 12months. I may be getting old but I'm not distressed yet!


----------



## Rob Timpie

amplesou said:


> i think it means it is released for sale ?


^^ :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## HarryKane

Dubai_Steve said:


> Unfortunately this means lower rents are coming if 10,000 units are being pulled off the market for renting.


I got an email from an agent saying that they had units for rent in Old Town and were accepting 12 cheques instead of the customary 1, 2, or 4. This must be a new in Dubai.


----------



## IISinbadII

True Blue said:


> No! The former.
> 
> I need some feedback from all you guru landlords out there. In a short term let for 3 months should the rental be expected to include utility useage, TV, internet and phone and air conditioning charges applied by the building manager. Also should the tenant be resposible for paying the new housing fee shown on the DEWA bills.
> 
> I am being told by the agent that short term lets are all inclusive but I don't agree, am I being unreasonable?
> 
> Feedback appreciated guys (and gals).
> 
> Thanks


*Bills/charges/taxes are paid by the person who's name is written on the bill*. 

Its not clear from your post if the said apartment is a true short term let or if your are just renting it for 3 months. What does "_charges applied by the building manager_" mean? Charges come from the developer, DEWA, phone/tv/internet company, etc. Who is the building manager?

True *short-term lets*, where the units are furnished, and rented for a few days, weeks or months, DEWA account is in the name of the landlord (owner) and he/she pays everything e.g. DEWA bill (including housing fees), phone/tv/internet bills plus chiller charges and maintenance charges. You can possibly charge the tenant for long-distance phone calls(?). 

In *long term lets*, that are usually for 6 months to 1 year term, DEWA account is in the tenant's name. Tenant pays everything (except developers maintenance charges +/_ chiller fees). 

One more thing, DEWA housing fee is not new.


----------



## Thorneyvilla1

HarryKane said:


> I got an email from an agent saying that they had units for rent in Old Town and were accepting 12 cheques instead of the customary 1, 2, or 4. This must be a new in Dubai.


Its common now and neccessary. Banks are not offering loans to tenants. Any landlords now insisting on 1, 2 or 4 cheques is unrealistic and somewhat foolish.


----------



## peacesells

HappyLarry said:


> This could prove disastrous for some investors. If prescribed rent in their invested area is set lower then currently being commanded then it could trigger a property price correction in that area. That in turn may have a ripple effect.
> 
> :tiasd:


I'm actually scared that this will give Nakheel a reason to raise rent on my criminally-undervalued apartment in International City. I doubt it will go the other way.


----------



## peacesells

True Blue said:


> No! The former.
> 
> I need some feedback from all you guru landlords out there. In a short term let for 3 months should the rental be expected to include utility useage, TV, internet and phone and air conditioning charges applied by the building manager. Also should the tenant be resposible for paying the new housing fee shown on the DEWA bills.
> 
> I am being told by the agent that short term lets are all inclusive but I don't agree, am I being unreasonable?
> 
> Feedback appreciated guys (and gals).
> 
> Thanks


In theory, you can do what you like - it is YOUR apartment. In my experience, with short-term contracts in residential buildings (serviced apartments are different), DEWA is paid by the tenant, while TV/AC/maintenance is covered by the landlord and factored into the rent. If you have phone/internet, then I think phone should be paid for the tenant (good luck if he spends more time on the line than his deposit) and the Internet should be included in the rent since these days there's a flat fee.

Think of it this way - he can keep the TV and A/C running on full blast the whole day and there's only so much he can spend whereas water bill or phone can be something else if neglected. When renting a studio in International City for one of our guests last month, I paid for rent, commission to the agent and DEWA which basically is deducted from the deposit. There was a problem getting an updated bill from DEWA but we agreed on a figure and that if it is less/more, there will be refund or I'll come pay extra. There was no phone, and the Internet was included in the rent.

EDIT: If you're interested to lease it as a holiday property, check out this site for info: 

http://shortstaydubai.com/landlords.php


----------



## dubaigreen

Update on Rental. A colleague of my took an Al Seef 2 apartment (JLT), the one from 1680 sqft size for 140k annual. They started with 180k, than they said not lower than 170k, bu my colleague remained on his level, and they called back in one day to accept 140k. So, for sure, there is pressure on Rental levels.


----------



## peacesells

You can even try to re-negotiate existing contracts with landlords. A friend of a friend has successfully renegotiated existing lease in a JBR apartment, cutting it short and getting a couple of months at half-price.


----------



## docc

peacesells said:


> I'm actually scared that this will give Nakheel a reason to raise rent on my criminally-undervalued apartment in International City. I doubt it will go the other way.


International City is undervalued? Criminally undervalued? Seriously? Hmm...


----------



## 234sale

foxy said:


> Who is the biggest RE agency and how did you get this info?





True Blue said:


> ^^:lol: A guy in the pub told him........... If you only knew


:gossip: Some of us are on the inside,, some of us are spies,, some of you are agents,, we all have vested interests.

Publishing to much info would restrict my infomation resources.


----------



## Bobby G

Ive heard something about a RERA/LD law effective January 1, stating developers cant retain more than 20% of payment. Is this the one that is related to construction?

Does it apply to DIFC or are they exempt from all laws and regulations as I have been told?


----------



## Hanna

*Can't be all bad news in Dubai !*

Robust growth in Dubai land deals

By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: January 06, 2009, 23:58

Dubai: The value of the total land transactions in Dubai jumped 47.5 per cent to Dh70.2 billion last year from Dh47.6 billion in 2007, according to figures from Dubai land department.A total of 5,837 transactions were recorded in 2008, up from 3,997 transactions in 2007.
The most land activities were seen last May, with Dh11.6 billion spread over 793 transactions.
The least activity in 2008 was recorded in December with just Dh1.9 billion over 191 transaction.
However, this should come as no real surprise, given the dismal economic situation seen over the last quarter.
"I think Dubai has a very good market and will continue to grow, but it needs more time," Sultan Butti Bin Mejrin, director general of Dubai land department, said.In terms of mortgages, 2008 was an impressive year with the total value of mortgages hitting just under Dh114 billion.The most mortgages recorded in 2008 were in July with Dh29.4 billion worth of mortgages registered.
In 2007, the total number of mortgages recorded at the land department was Dh57.3 billion.
While figures for 2009 are hard to predict so early on in the year, most believe that while buying and selling this first quarter will be slow, from March onwards, the mortgage market should pick up with both investor confidence and mortgage availability increasing.
Chris Dommett, chief executive of mortgage firm John Charcol, said such incredible growth is related mainly to the first six months of 2008."Developers and real estate agents are realising that to get transactions, they have got to get financing," Dommett said.
Amlak and Tamweel previously held the majority of Dubai's mortgage market before they were placed under the umbrella of EmDevelopment Bank.However, to increase their funds, there needs to be a combination of a government injection of cash and they should be given a licence to accept deposits.Some developers are coming up with more relaxed payment plans which, Dommet says, can only be a good thing.
"The worst thing that could happen is if people decide to hand their properties back. Then the developers' cash-flow would be completely wrecked and they would be left with repossessed properties," Dommett added.The year 2009 will also see a return to 85 per cent financing by the end of the first quarter as people just can't afford the down payment at a 70 per cent loan-to-value rate or lower, Dommett said.Not all are so convinced of a brighter 2009, though.
"I seriously doubt that banks will have the liquidity to start lending to end-users or developers. Where is the cash going to come from? Transactions are going to come down and so will the availability of mortgages," said an analyst, requesting anonymity.
The most popular area in Dubai for buying property is Arabian Ranches, with 701 sales registered between January 1, 2008, and December 31, 2008.The most expensive sale in the Ranches was valued at Dh20.2 million.
The Palm Jumeirah came in second place with a total volume of 656 sales recorded.Emirates Hills was third with 563 properties sold.
The least popular areas were Umm Sequim and Al Raffa.Emirates Hills saw the highest sales value with Dh380 million recorded.
In terms of land-buying, Al Ruwayyah had the most transactions with 875 total sales, Al Jadaf had 242 sales and Jebel Ali had 211 sales.

The highest land prices were in Al Khawaneej at Dh684 million.


----------



## peacesells

docc said:


> International City is undervalued? Criminally undervalued? Seriously? Hmm...


MY rent is, not the whole of International City.


----------



## Sportmikkel

*NEw RERA payment rule*

Who has got a view on the new RERA payment rule and how it has been applied to the Sheffield Invest Corporate Tower?

"Beginning January 1st with properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."

Sheffield is asking for 50% now already in January 2009 !


----------



## DubaiDream

I would appreciate your views on the following:

1) I understand the title to an apartment remains with the developer until all payments have been made, understandably. If the developer handsover the apartment, and then goes bust, does the purchaser have security over his property

2) How easy is it for a managing agent (lettings) to do a runner with the cheques from the tenant. 

3) Is there any other fraudulent activity I need to watch out for when it comes to managing agents

Thanks


----------



## Bobby G

1) Yes after hand-over there are no issues.
2) Depends who the agent is. We are largely dealing with reputable agencies here. In theory you dont sign the tenancy till you receive the cash.
3) Have no idea


----------



## FWIW

DubaiDream said:


> I would appreciate your views on the following:
> 
> 1) I understand the title to an apartment remains with the developer until all payments have been made, understandably. If the developer handsover the apartment, and then goes bust, does the purchaser have security over his property The recent ruling where Developer pays 1% and buyer pays 1% means that you as the buyer will have Legal right to the property. Obviously, if you do not keep up with payments (even after being notified to pay by RERA) then the developer will reclaim the property.
> 
> 2) How easy is it for a managing agent (lettings) to do a runner with the cheques from the tenant.Only use a big, well known company. I personally use bhomes.com - you should use a company that you trust.
> 
> 3) Is there any other fraudulent activity I need to watch out for when it comes to managing agentsProbably, but by using a reputable agent I have not needed to invetigate this scenario.
> 
> Thanks


Hope the above helps, but it is just my personal opinion.


----------



## peacesells

DubaiDream said:


> I would appreciate your views on the following:
> 
> 1) I understand the title to an apartment remains with the developer until all payments have been made, understandably. If the developer handsover the apartment, and then goes bust, does the purchaser have security over his property
> 
> 2) How easy is it for a managing agent (lettings) to do a runner with the cheques from the tenant.
> 
> 3) Is there any other fraudulent activity I need to watch out for when it comes to managing agents
> 
> Thanks


1) So long as the apartment is ready, you have paid fully and the payments have been recorded and gone to the escrow account, you should be fine. There's a million of ifs and buts depending on the individual situation though.

2) Normally, the tenant would write a cheque in the name of the owner. So there would be no point in running away with it. As others have mentioned, if you use a bigger agency, you should be fine.

3) Any upfront commission payments, viewing charges, requests for cash cheques or cheques to be written out in the name of the agent as well as general shadyness (not answering phone, not calling back, avoiding the questions etc).


----------



## DubaiDream

Thanks for all the replies

1) Post handover, I will have around 30-40% left to pay to the developer over 3 years. So from the responses it seems like I am protected from the developer going under after handover

2) I was thinking of using Exclusive Real estate, Derek Walkins, who has been much recommend on this forum. Any other recommendations apart from bhomes?

Thanks


----------



## peacesells

DubaiDream said:


> Thanks for all the replies
> 
> 1) Post handover, I will have around 30-40% left to pay to the developer over 3 years. So from the responses it seems like I am protected from the developer going under after handover
> 
> 2) I was thinking of using Exclusive Real estate, Derek Walkins, who has been much recommend on this forum. Any other recommendations apart from bhomes?
> 
> Thanks


1) In this scenario, I am pretty sure the developer will retain the title to the property until this payment is complete. I also imagine the developer made use of project financing from a third party to be able to offer this kind of deal to you so if the developer goes bust, the assets will be taken over by said third party and you will have to pay the remaining amount to them. It kinda makes things more complicated, but so long as the project is legit and registered, you should be fine.

2) Apart from obvious big ones (Sherwoods, Landmark, OC, Ocean View etc), try asking your developer if they can rent it out for you.


----------



## SamB

Speak to Smith and Ken.


----------



## 234sale

2) I was thinking of using Exclusive Real estate, Derek Walkins, who has been much recommend on this forum. Any other recommendations apart from bhomes?

Landmark, Asteco, Cluttons or even Hamptons (if its an Emaar property)


----------



## 234sale

234sale said:


> 2) I was thinking of using Exclusive Real estate, Derek Walkins, who has been much recommend on this forum. Any other recommendations apart from bhomes?
> 
> Landmark, Asteco, Cluttons or even Hamptons (if its an Emaar property)


The Specialist or Even Dubai Waterfront Properties who specialise in rent.


----------



## kano

234sale said:


> 2) I was thinking of using Exclusive Real estate, Derek Walkins, who has been much recommend on this forum. Any other recommendations apart from bhomes?
> 
> You mean Derek Grimley


----------



## DubaiDream

Yes, Derek Grimley from Exclusives has several recommendations from this Forum and seems like he is on top of things, but I would prefer a brand like Hamptons. Apparently, rental cheques are normally addresssed to the agency, they cash them and then forward the funds on....


----------



## 234sale

Any RERA approved agency will assist you. I would always check the market to see who is advertising and stick it with all of them...


----------



## Imre

still no buyers in this market , almost zero transactions.

I think in the next weeks some real estate agents will have a big problem.no comission at all but they have fees...


----------



## jeetha

Until buying picks up there (USA) we can sit elsewhere with our hands double folded.
Doesn’t matter how much individuals/agents discounted price their investments by…….. I’m not buying….until I’m sure our world is out of this mess.

The day will come.


----------



## jba

jeetha said:


> Until buying picks up there (USA) we can sit elsewhere with our hands double folded.
> Doesn’t matter how much individuals/agents discounted price their investments by…….. I’m not buying….until I’m sure our world is out of this mess.
> 
> The day will come.


now is the time to buy!! When everybody else aren't.


----------



## peacesells

DubaiDream said:


> Apparently, rental cheques are normally addresssed to the agency, they cash them and then forward the funds on....


This sometimes happens if the landlord does not have an account in Dubai. I'd ask for a letter from Landlord specifically authorizing the agent to do so, otherwise, it may end up ugly as the tenancy contract is between you and the landlord, therefore, if he doesn't receive his money or claim that he doesn't, you're in trouble.


----------



## jeetha

JBA^^Right time for people with $$$$$’s (Dollars) not £££££’s (Pounds)


----------



## dbxdude

*Trump investors left out in the cold*

Trump investors still have no word from nakeel about where there money is. Having been asked to had back there contracts so Nakheel could 'process the cancellation', they are now being told its under discussion - for the last 4 weeks! Whats more bacause they dont have their contracts they cant even go to RERA or file a court case. The longer Nakheel ignore these investors, the angrie and less quite they will become. Amazing they could even think they could do this!


----------



## mrobbie

dbxdude said:


> The longer Nakheel ignore these investors, the angrie and less quite they will become. Amazing they could even think they could do this!


Does not surprise me with my experience to date with them :bash:


----------



## faheem2241

thelostviking said:


> Any idea how much per sq. ft. it has reached by now? Until July I was aware of 1172/sq.ft for full 3rd floor and 1198/sq.ft for full 4th floor.


hello dear i have some apartments in mira palace they are asking for more payments any updates did they started anything on the site ? please let me know if you have any up dates.


----------



## Imre

they have no money thats why the delays of the refund.


----------



## Imre

*UPDATE: Dynasty Zarooni Chmn Arrested In Dubai - Official*

Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009


DUBAI (Zawya Dow Jones)--Kabir Mulchandani, chairman of Dubai property company Dynasty Al Zarooni Real Estate, has been held this week by Dubai police, an official at Dubai's Public Prosecution told Zawya Dow Jones Tuesday. 

The official confirmed that a case has been filed against Indian businessman Mulchandani in Dubai for an alleged liquor related offense and bouncing a cheque for an undisclosed amount, which is an offense in the United Arab Emirates. 

Jaydeep Anand, Dynasty Al Zarooni Real's chief operating officer, was unable to confirm the arrest when called by Zawya Dow Jones. 

"I have no information," he said. 

The Public Prosecution official said that Mulchandani has been questioned but was unable to provide further information. 

Earlier this year, Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority cleared Dynasty Zarooni Real Estate of any wrongdoing after two Indian publications ran reports that some investors had complained that Mulchandani had misled them by showing one property and selling them another. 

The developer was created in September 2007 with the merger of the Hilal Al Zarooni Group and Dynasty Enterprises Inc and a net equity of 1.35 billion U.A.E. dirhams ($367.5 million). 

(Zawya Dow Jones)


----------



## rexdmx

^^ of course!! but even print media should reduce their rates now inline with the current downturn


----------



## peacesells

dbxdude said:


> who would want any Dubai realestate now? 40,000 people left in november. Its going to be a bad 09. Contract says u get the money back if its cancelled/suspended. Money is not safe, every month they keep it ur loosing earning potential/interest etc. I dont think offering a property at 50% above current market price is an acceptable subsititute. I bought trump but what i actually got was a 1 bed villa in JVS. Great.....


Come on, if they offered you a Marina Residence apartment at 1000 dhs a foot, would you not take it (provided you can pay the full amount by the time it is ready etc)?


----------



## dbxdude

Also alot less people have their property up for sale. There isnt much point selling something for less then your mortgage, better of paying your mortgage or going to the airport on a one way. Lots of people i know just cant be bothered to sell anymore because the prices are so low and also lots of agents wont advertise for the price they want to sell at - usually their buy price minus down payment. I guess if there was any actually buyers (and there are not) then properties at currently listed prices may run out and prices may rebound. But the fact is there is NO CONFIDENCE because there is NO FINANCE and if the local banks wont even put money into their own country why should any expat. The key to picking up the real estate market from the floor is mainly to PROVIDE FINANCE and also for people to feel confident about their jobs. If they still have their jobs by summer and finance is available confidence might return. I also think a 'perfect wave' scenario is possible with Finance returning at about the same time as properties reach OP prices and at the same time the world (by that i mean USA) comes out of the current down turn and hence oil and tourism begin to rebound. This 'perfect wave' scenario is the only time when people will buy. It does not matter how cheap property is while there is no confidence since human psychology is such that we always follow the heard and right now the heard is leaving the building... By advertising at cheaper rates the market can only go down since if you keep cutting your price, buyers will just sit on the side lines waiting for the next reduction. There is also a 'perfect storm' scenario but i don't want to consider what the outcome of that is... 

Letting the market crash may have been a wise idea since no one has ever prevented a crash just delayed it. Could be 'they' come in with finance and liquidity when they are sure its bottomed out...


----------



## peacesells

dbxdude said:


> And i cant really belive a company that has sold billions of dhs of real-estate with huge margins as well as collected 2% of every transaction on secondry properties has no money. There is lots of money. Credit crisis is being used as an excuse and every developer is doing it. Its disgusting.


A developer who is actively building their projects doesn't (shouldn't) have mountains of spare cash lying around. Having said that, from the layoffs, project cancellations and IPO announcement, it looks like Nakheel, as a business unit, do have a cash flow problem. They probably have more than enough to pay back the Trump buyers but they will probably have to squeeze somewhere else in the near future to compensate for that. And there's not many places to squeeze if you're Nakheel - you have contractors and suppliers who are knocking on your door for payments, not to mentions loans and debt repayments on one hand, and defaulting buyers / sub-developers on the other. Naturally, a cashless exchange, a barter if you will, would be the first thing anyone would offer in this situation. I'm sure that if you don't agree to it however, they WILL refund your cash.


----------



## dbxdude

peacesells said:


> Come on, if they offered you a Marina Residence apartment at 1000 dhs a foot, would you not take it (provided you can pay the full amount by the time it is ready etc)?


But they will not, they will offer it at 3000 dhs because they have no concept of what is occurring and anyway, they still have garden villas listed at 15m ! it would make more sense for them to give the money back and sell a marine res on a 7 year payment plan at 1800 to someone else.


----------



## peacesells

dbxdude said:


> But they will not, they will offer it at 3000 dhs because they have no concept of what is occurring and anyway, they still have garden villas listed at 15m ! it would make more sense for them to give the money back and sell a marine res on a 7 year payment plan at 1800 to someone else.


Not necessarily, but that's neither here nor there. As I said, once you do hear from them, give them your counter-proposal and you never know.


----------



## dbxdude

peacesells said:


> A developer who is actively building their projects doesn't (shouldn't) have mountains of spare cash lying around. Having said that, from the layoffs, project cancellations and IPO announcement, it looks like Nakheel, as a business unit, do have a cash flow problem. They probably have more than enough to pay back the Trump buyers but they will probably have to squeeze somewhere else in the near future to compensate for that. And there's not many places to squeeze if you're Nakheel - you have contractors and suppliers who are knocking on your door for payments, not to mentions loans and debt repayments on one hand, and defaulting buyers / sub-developers on the other. Naturally, a cashless exchange, a barter if you will, would be the first thing anyone would offer in this situation. I'm sure that if you don't agree to it however, they WILL refund your cash.


Nakheel are exempt from Escrow because they are Dubai government backed and hence your money is theoretically guaranteed - The only saving grace. 

A few investors did try and barter with them but its a one way communication and its hard to Barter with someone living in a parallel universe where the economy is booming. Try offering them a price on some of their stock... bet you dont even get a reply and if you do it will be a firm NO. 

Anyway, who knows, maybe there will be some shakeups and someone better suited to leading them through these difficult times will take the lead. As for Trump investors they will probably get their money back .... in 2010/11.


----------



## peacesells

dbxdude said:


> Nakheel are exempt from Escrow because they are Dubai government backed and hence your money is theoretically guaranteed - The only saving grace.
> 
> A few investors did try and barter with them but its a one way communication and its hard to Barter with someone living in a parallel universe where the economy is booming. Try offering them a price on some of their stock... bet you dont even get a reply and if you do it will be a firm NO.
> 
> Anyway, who knows, maybe there will be some shakeups and someone better suited to leading them through these difficult times will take the lead. As for Trump investors they will probably get their money back .... in 2010/11.


All I'm saying is that you should treat this situation as an opportunity.


----------



## dbxdude

peacesells said:


> All I'm saying is that you should treat this situation as an opportunity.


Communicating with them is like speaking to a stone. As reasonable as you are, for every opportunity you present them, for every out of the box solution you come up with you get the same reply as you do from a stone. Silence. After a few months you get frustrated and give up. Anyway in sure 2009 has more positive opportunities!


----------



## Imre

rexdmx said:


> there was a guy who was on the forum right...? he made allegations of this nature last year but it died down.. who remembers?



Gulfnews:

*Real estate company chairman denies charge *
Staff report 
Published: January 07, 2009, 23:38


Dubai: The chairman of a Dubai-based real estate firm has denied reports that he had been arrested on allegations of fraud.

Kabir Mulchandani told Gulf News there was no police arrest warrant against him.

"I know some complaints have been lodged with the police by some people against our firm but these people gave cheques that bounced. They have no legitimate reason to complain," he explained over the phone.

He said the company was "in good shape." 

Company president Hilal Al Zarouni said the company is "functioning properly".

Both executives said they didn't know if the police were investigating the complaints.

Lawyer Salim Al Sha'ali, who represents a number of complainants, said the complaints are related to an alleged fraud scheme. 

"We have been studying the legalities of the case... and we believe that there is a supposed crime of conning people out of money," he told Gulf News.

The Federal Penal Code and the property laws issued lately are the legal grounds in this case, argued the lawyer. 

Sources told Gulf News the complaints involve some Dh2.8 billion.

However, Mulchandani denied the accusations and said he has "all the documents that support our position that those people have reneged on their commitments".


----------



## Bobby G

Anyone with any info on Jumeirah Islands Mansions


----------



## peacesells

dbxdude said:


> Communicating with them is like speaking to a stone. As reasonable as you are, for every opportunity you present them, for every out of the box solution you come up with you get the same reply as you do from a stone. Silence. After a few months you get frustrated and give up. Anyway in sure 2009 has more positive opportunities!


How exactly are you communicating with them? Please don't tell me you expected something by calling their call center or sending an e-mail to [email protected]. They do have communication problems, but if you go in person and meet with the higher-ups, you will get a response, I guarantee it.


----------



## nri-hotels

looks like the oil market is getting the crap beaten out of it....again.


smells like foreclosure auctions coming up soon in Dubai.


----------



## dbxdude

peacesells said:


> How exactly are you communicating with them? Please don't tell me you expected something by calling their call center or sending an e-mail to [email protected]. They do have communication problems, but if you go in person and meet with the higher-ups, you will get a response, I guarantee it.


They will tell you what you want to hear but then nothing will happen. There very top management has no grasp on reality.


----------



## dbxdude

Mavekris said:


> ^^Why don't you approach RERA they are very professional, i am sure they will be able to get your money back with interest.
> 
> Or seek legal action and i am sure you will win :lol::nuts:


RERA have yet to resolve 1 single case or get 1 single investor money back. Im not sure what the point of them is.


----------



## peacesells

dbxdude said:


> They will tell you what you want to hear but then nothing will happen. There very top management has no grasp on reality.


You're right, it's hopeless, those guys are living in the clouds.

EDIT: But seriously, you're just not doing it right, I assure you they can be reasoned with, you just have to do it right.


----------



## 974agk

*Trump*

The Trump Group have cancelled the 1 billion USD Dollar Golf Course development that was planned for Balmedie Dunes in Aberdeen Scotland.
The So called Credit Crunch has hit it hard with the exchange rate dropping.hno:
Thank God we still have the Oil & Gas in the local Economy.


----------



## dbxdude

Some of the worlds greatest most beautiful frauds will be committed under the smoke screen of the credit crunch.


----------



## dbxdude

peacesells said:


> You're right, it's hopeless, those guys are living in the clouds.
> 
> EDIT: But seriously, you're just not doing it right, I assure you they can be reasoned with, you just have to do it right.


No there are some good guys there with a grasp on reality one of them is not their fearless leader and he is the only decision maker. Sadly that means most of the good people will probably leave because they cant be having fun in the current climate. Im guessing there is a chance you work there? or you think you have negotiated a deal? so i guess there is a chance you will experience first hand whats going on a little later on.... no disrespect intended.


----------



## peacesells

dbxdude said:


> No there are some good guys there with a grasp on reality one of them is not their fearless leader and he is the only decision maker. Sadly that means most of the good people will probably leave because they cant be having fun in the current climate. Im guessing there is a chance you work there? or you think you have negotiated a deal? so i guess there is a chance you will experience first hand whats going on a little later on.... no disrespect intended.


I don't work for Nakheel, but my work is related to Nakheel as one of our projects is in Nakheel territory. I assure you that they DO negotiate on contract terms with clients, have done so even before the crisis. Look, it's simple - it is in their interest to reach a mutually beneficial outcome. Just be logical and assertive, don't be the headless chicken guy who nobody takes seriously.


----------



## Goss

...


----------



## Goss

gerald.d said:


> Just to clarify that bit (with regards to earlier posts in the thread), the pound's 10% recovery mentioned is against the euro. Doubt that is of much relevance to people here.
> 
> The pound is being tested against a couple of psychological/technical levels at the moment. If it can't hold up over $1.54 (ish) for more than a few days, it's heading south.
> 
> Those looking for a return to 7Dhms to the pound won't see it happen for a very long time, unless the Dhms peg to the dollar undergoes a dramatic change.
> 
> UK interest rates will almost certainly hit zero and/or there will be substantial "quantitive easing" within 6 months . There's a very strange lack of objectivity in the markets since the new year, and the politicians and BoE are riding on the false wave, but I don't expect it to last for much longer.
> 
> Things are going to get a _lot_ worse before they get better.
> 
> /edit
> 
> off to bed now. Pound back down to $1.513. That was short-lived, eh?


When I was in Dubai 2 weeks ago the pound reached a low of 5.1 Dirhams to the pound.Today the pound reached 5.7 Dirhams-an increase of 10% in the last 2 weeks.The Dirham is linked to the dollar if I am not mistaken.
How do I know these facts:I was just about to sell my Palm Jumeirah Villa and transfer back to Uk.Today I pulled out because didnt want to lose the 10%.I will now wait for prices to go up which im sure will if the pound gets stronger.
Dont be so negative Gerald-you dont know what is going to happen-just like everybody else


----------



## Goss

gerald.d said:


> If the peg with the USD stays, not a chance.
> 
> If you want my (admittedly very amateur) projection - and you probably won't - is for £1:$1.35 by April, which would equate to 4.95Dhms.


If the pound goes to 4.95 you can kiss goodbye to 90% of the 1 Million UK tourists.They wont come with prices as they are trust me


----------



## gerald.d

Goss said:


> When I was in Dubai 2 weeks ago the pound reached a low of 5.1 Dirhams to the pound.Today the pound reached 5.7 Dirhams-an increase of 10% in the last 2 weeks.The Dirham is linked to the dollar if I am not mistaken.
> How do I know these facts:I was just about to sell my Palm Jumeirah Villa and transfer back to Uk.Today I pulled out because didnt want to lose the 10%.I will now wait for prices to go up which im sure will if the pound gets stronger.
> Dont be so negative Gerald-you dont know what is going to happen-just like everybody else


Firstly, the pound did not reach 5.7 Dirhams on the markets today. It didn't even get close.

Secondly, the pound has not increased in value against the Dirham by 10% in the last 2 weeks. 2 weeks ago was December 28th. On that date, the pound closed at 5.385 Dhms. 5.385*1.1 = 5.924. 

The pound has been below 5.92 Dirhams since the beginning of November.

Finally though, I'm a little confused.

If you're selling your Palm Jumeirah villa, then presumably you are selling it in Dirhams, and would be looking to transfer the money back to the UK and convert it to Sterling?

If this is the case, then surely a weak pound benefits you?


----------



## gerald.d

Goss said:


> If the pound goes to 4.95 you can kiss goodbye to 90% of the 1 Million UK tourists.They wont come with prices as they are trust me


Where those 1 million UK tourists go on their holidays will be the least of their worries this year.


----------



## baba toto

Will this project ever move????:bash:


----------



## Mistermark

IMHO the reason why the Pound strengthened slightly is that the base rate cut was only 0.5% rather than 1%. As for why this happened, I believe it's because quantitative easing is around the corner - all the economic news is worse than expected (a lot), not better. They're spinning to say they won't get the presses running, and they'll keep doing it... right up until the money is printed.

So I agree that, medium term, Sterling's heading South and this is a temporary blip.


----------



## HappyLarry

Consensus says sterling is heading south. Could I be contrarian and predict that it is heading north? 

It should hit resistance around 1.555 but a month or so and it should be heading to 1.70. Come on cable!


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai RERA's rental index ready


Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) has completed the much-awaited rental index and is awaiting the approval of the Rulers Court. A senior official of RERA has revealed that the index would be rolled out soon after obtaining approval.

The Director of RERA, Mohammed Khalifa bin Hammad, said that the rental index for commercial and residential units would soon be launched. The regulation for its execution has been already finalized and is awaiting approval of Rulers Court. Once approved, the index will be published in newspapers.

RERA revealed that it is not mandatory for landlords to abide by the rental index, although, a range would be set for residential and commercial units which the people can use to refer for comparing rents in various areas of Dubai. This would serve as a reference point during a dispute between tenant and landlord.

During a dispute, Dubai Municipality or any such concerned authority will have to consult the index before taking any decision. The index would form a benchmark in solving rental disputes, Hammad explained.

RERA has been involved in the index compilation work for the past six months. It has now completed updation until the fourth quarter of 2008.

The current rent cap for Dubai is five percent as of 2008, and the government has not amended the cap ever-since.

The Rental Index would also be a base to calculate rents for the authorities and people concerned, said Andrew Chambers, Managing Director, Asteco.

In mature markets usually a broad range would be available and so introduction of index is a good step for maturity, Chambers said.


----------



## bizzybonita

Experts predict rental growth in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, but, at slower pace

Rental demand will remain robust this year, but will increase at a slower pace in 2009, predict industry experts. The officials also expect a drop in residential rents in Dubai and Abu Dhabi.

The Chairman of Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Salah al Shamsi, said that rents are likely to drop between 10 and 15 percent in Abu Dhabi during second half of this year, and may fall even further during 2010, with several new units likely to appear in the market.

A study conducted by Truth Economic Consultants, revealed that 72,285 units would hit Abu Dhabi market by 2008-09, out of which 37,851 units would be available in 2009.

Al Shamsi said that rents and value of property have not yet been affected by the global crisis, and the prices have not fallen as much as in other emirates, probably due to high demand for residential units in Abu Dhabi.

However, experts say that rental demand in Dubai would grow at a much slower pace than before. The Chief Financial Officer of Landmark Properties, Charles Neil, when speaking to the media said that although rental prices are likely to remain stable in 2009, they will initially soften during the first and second quarter.

The Managing Director of Asteco Property Management, Andrew Chambers, when speaking to the media, said that there still exists strong demand for rental properties across all emirates including Abu Dhabi and Dubai, as the two emirates are already witnessing scarcity of readily available units.

The real estate agents in Dubai state that in 2008 the villa market in UAE has seen maximum increase in rental prices due to limited availability of villas.

Several real estate experts including Asteco's Chambers, Landmark's Neil, and Cluttons' Macfarlane, CEO of Wasl HEsham Al Qassim, and Dubai Real Estate Corporation have all said that rental yields in UAE have remained attractive in comparison to international markets.

However, the market is now more demand-driven, and keeping up to customers expectations would be the key for growth in future, they said. The experts advised that investor should carry on research and invest in buildings with design elements, finishing and layouts preferred by customers, apart from areas only preferred by end-users.


----------



## IISinbadII

Many of these new rules were designed to cool down a market that was overheated. It would be interesting to see if the Rental Index reflects current rents at different locations or is it designed to bring down a market which is already slow.


----------



## heavensent

also recieved the letter. so many conflicting messages with developers and RERA. As of now, according to RERA off plan registration is free. You oly ave to pay a % fee for registration when the property is ready for the title deed.


----------



## Goss

gerald.d said:


> Firstly, the pound did not reach 5.7 Dirhams on the markets today. It didn't even get close.
> 
> Secondly, the pound has not increased in value against the Dirham by 10% in the last 2 weeks. 2 weeks ago was December 28th. On that date, the pound closed at 5.385 Dhms. 5.385*1.1 = 5.924.
> 
> The pound has been below 5.92 Dirhams since the beginning of November.
> 
> Finally though, I'm a little confused.
> 
> If you're selling your Palm Jumeirah villa, then presumably you are selling it in Dirhams, and would be looking to transfer the money back to the UK and convert it to Sterling?
> 
> If this is the case, then surely a weak pound benefits you?


Firstly, the Dirham hit 5.1 mid DECember and I decided to sell he villa-got offered 8.5 mill.
Secondly,The weak pound did benefit me untill it gained in value 10%

I was in Thailand on Dec28th so cannot comment


----------



## Goss

gerald.d said:


> Where those 1 million UK tourists go on their holidays will be the least of their worries this year.


Yes right Gerald-no problem at all to a country building its future on tourism


----------



## Bimcnorth

Goss said:


> Yes right Gerald-no problem at all to a country building its future on tourism



Dubai ain´t a country...or building its future on tourism.

For years I have been trying to tell people that Dubai is a emirate within UAE who is a country.
They never get it...Or understand the difference.


----------



## Goss

Bimcnorth said:


> Dubai ain´t a country...or building its future on tourism.
> 
> For years I have been trying to tell people that Dubai is a emirate within UAE who is a country.
> They never get it...Or understand the difference.


Sorry Emirate.I think i understand the difference having owned property there for 3 years


----------



## gerald.d

Goss said:


> Firstly, the Dirham hit 5.1 mid DECember


No. It did not. Stop making this stuff up.

The only possible scenario in which the Dirham might have been quoted at 5.1 to the pound is when buying Dirhams with pounds at an airport foreign exchange - which is hardly relevant to someone wanting to convert a 7 figure sum from Dirhams to pounds.

Either that, or someone is ripping you off big time.

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=GBPAED


----------



## DubaiExpat

*70% Refund on Cancellation!!!!!*

Could anyone confirm on this. From reliable sources it is understood that there will be no 70% refund on cancelling a real estate investment deal. You stand to lose all the money you invested if you can't adhere to the payment terms or in case if you can't obtain a mortgage. I am one of the loser since I can't manage further payments & also unable to sell my property. The developer is refusing a refund & said the 70% refund is not in force.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ When is your contractual hand over date?


----------



## Goss

gerald.d said:


> No. It did not. Stop making this stuff up.
> 
> The only possible scenario in which the Dirham might have been quoted at 5.1 to the pound is when buying Dirhams with pounds at an airport foreign exchange - which is hardly relevant to someone wanting to convert a 7 figure sum from Dirhams to pounds.
> 
> Either that, or someone is ripping you off big time.
> 
> http://finance.google.com/finance?q=GBPAED


Dubai is built on exageration Gerald.In fact the entire Capialist World has been built on exageration.Its called creative marketing.OK I may have been a couple of percent out but at the end of the day was only trying to inject an air of positivety to the forum.Your (as you admit) uneducated comments about the state of Dubai and the Pound do not really help.


----------



## Imre

DubaiExpat said:


> Could anyone confirm on this. From reliable sources it is understood that there will be no 70% refund on cancelling a real estate investment deal. You stand to lose all the money you invested if you can't adhere to the payment terms or in case if you can't obtain a mortgage. I am one of the loser since I can't manage further payments & also unable to sell my property. The developer is refusing a refund & said the 70% refund is not in force.


May I ask which project is this?


----------



## jeetha

^^http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=437272

HYDRA TWIN TOWERS (JV)


----------



## Imre

Thanks, so what is the point of the RERA then?


----------



## DubaiExpat

*Hydra Twin Tower in JVS*

It's the hydra twin tower in jum village south. the hand over is in the middle of 2010. But I doubt.

RERA is not worried about small investors. All developers objected to the 70% refund and they have accepted, but there is no official press release.


----------



## High Times

Imre said:


> Thanks, so what is the point of the RERA then?


Simply to create the illusion that Dubai's Real Estate market is regulated.

The US securities and exchange commission is supposed to regulate financial instruments in the States and look what has just happened, is happening, and will happen.

Regulation of any industry is difficult, but when it's all about people making money out of other people it becomes near immpossible im afraid.


----------



## gerald.d

Goss said:


> Dubai is built on exageration Gerald.In fact the entire Capialist World has been built on exageration.Its called creative marketing.OK I may have been a couple of percent out but at the end of the day was only trying to inject an air of positivety to the forum.Your (as you admit) uneducated comments about the state of Dubai and the Pound do not really help.


Trying to inject an air of positivity by pretending exchange rate history is not what it was?

Madness.

I wish you good luck in your sale.


----------



## Bobby G

The 70% rule was "altered" or expanded to say that its only effective once you have paid at least 30%. If you paid 30% you lose it all. If you paid anything more than that, then you will lose everything up to 30% and everything over that you will stake a claim of 70%.


----------



## HappyLarry

Nice one RERA and Sh. Mo.!

That is daylight robbery. People putting money into escrow accounts is all a fiction then?hno:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ No, if developer goes backrupt then you get 100% back from escrow. Only if the buyers can not make payment then you get all back after the first 30% paid or 100% back if the contractual completion date has expired.


----------



## one_guy

Hmm, if this results in something positive I think prices could jump at least 15-20% from the currently very depressed levels. Won't go back to anything like the peak but a small jump is possible. 

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10274211.html



> UAE plans unified freehold visa
> http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/09/01/11/10274211.html
> 
> 01/11/2009 12:33 AM | By Saifur Rahman, Business Editor
> 
> Dubai: The UAE federal government is reviewing the issue of freehold property visas linked to foreigners' ownership of properties in different emirates, a top Dubai Government official told the media on Saturday.
> 
> "The Advisory Council [of Dubai Government] has submitted a proposal to the Federal Government on the issue of property-linked visas to review," Nasser Bin Hassan Al Shaikh, director-general of Dubai Government's Department of Finance, said at a media briefing on the sidelines of the government's 2009 budget announcement.
> 
> *"Since a number of emirates have developed their own freehold visa arrangements, there are thoughts at the federal level to streamline the process and announce a unified guideline for all the emirates."*
> 
> Dubai Government created the Advisory Council in October last year, to assess the impact of the global financial crisis on Dubai's economy, which has been hit due to an outflow of capital, estimated to be well above Dh200 billion.
> 
> He said there could be a new law guiding this soon, without giving any timeframe. *When asked if he expects a positive resolution, he replied, "Yes, I hope so."*
> 
> The freehold visa issue has come to light in recent months when major master developers Nakheel and Emaar - who have been helping foreign buyers of freehold properties to get three-year renewable residence visas - had stopped facilitating them last year, prompting investor outcry.
> 
> Experts have welcomed the move, saying the country needed a unified regulation on this and a streamlined procedure to restore investor confidence.
> 
> "It is reassuring. It is positive news and will bring a lot of faith and confidence in the market," Sudhir Kumar, managing director of Realtor's International, a property consultancy.
> 
> "The matter of freehold visas has been an issue of major concern for real estate investors. This addresses the concern. With this, the government is showing its strength and resilience in the time of crisis."
> 
> Dubai's master-developers have, since 2002, been pledging "freehold visas" to attract foreign investors to the emirate's real estate sector, in the absence of a proper rule to dictate this.
> 
> Since then, they have facilitated this to lots of buyers having a special arrangement with the Dubai Naturalisation and Residency department. Subsequently, a number of master-developers in Ajman and Ras Al Khaimah followed suit, attracting massive investment into their real estate sector.
> 
> Five out of the UAE's seven emirates now have designated areas where foreign nationals can buy and own properties on a freehold and leasehold basis. Sharjah does not allow non-Arabs to own properties on a freehold basis.
> 
> Abu Dhabi allows foreigner to own what it calls "surface property" and not the land on designated areas. However, there is no federal law to regulate the freehold property market and visa issuance linked to property ownership to foreigners.
> 
> As per the UAE constitution, land of each emirate belongs to Rulers and they decide the ownership, usage and allocation of the land..


----------



## HappyLarry

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ No, if developer goes backrupt then you get 100% back from escrow. Only if the buyers can not make payment then you get all back after the first 30% paid or 100% back if the contractual completion date has expired.


Thanks Steve for clarifying. I was just feeling prematurely gutted for people losing any hard-earned/borrowed money.


----------



## romaforever

romaforever said:


> I was buying in May 2007 the following unit (METRO TOWER):
> 
> Floor: 32nd.
> 
> View: Wadi Walk
> 
> Surface area: 667 sqfeet or 61.97 sq m
> 
> Price: 620,977 AED
> 
> 
> Then the personal situation stopped me from doing so. Should I be happy or disappointed in view of what has been happening in Dubai's market (possible oversupply, late delivery, increase of inflation etc.)?
> 
> For the moderators: I posted the same post in Dubai land section. If this is the best location for this post please delete the other post or viceversa.


I am very interested in this considering the last downturn of the market in Dubai. Any thoughts? Thanks


----------



## AndyH

*for those debating Sterling v Dirham rate..*

Conversion Table: GBP to AED (Interbank rate)

Time period: 01/12/08 to 01/01/09.

Average (32 days): 5.46633
High: 5.70610
Low: 5.32090

Time period: 01/01/08 to 01/01/09. 

Average (367 days): 6.81190
High: 7.46150
Low: 5.32090


----------



## tehsin123

one_guy said:


> Hmm, if this results in something positive I think prices could jump at least 15-20% from the currently very depressed levels. Won't go back to anything like the peak but a small jump is possible.
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10274211.html



Well I won't buy or be more interested to buy on a promise of planning a visa consideration (which can be reversed any day without notice!)


----------



## nri-hotels

tehsin123 said:


> Well I won't buy or be more interested to buy on a promise of planning a visa consideration (which can be reversed any day without notice!)


From what i am reading, it sounds like the UAE govt is not sincere about its visa program regarding property investment. Its a form of misinformation or misleading foreigners.


----------



## Imre

"*UAE plans unified freehold visa *

Dubai: The UAE federal government is reviewing the issue of freehold property visas linked to foreigners' ownership of properties in different emirates, a top Dubai Government official told the media on Saturday."

the main problem, they dont know what they want


----------



## Peter Pan in Dubai

My letter says 1% & when contacted DSC, they said its 1% to be paid top them & 1% which I must pay to Dubai bank (my mortage lander) bringing the total fee to 2%. 
I inquired if this is in place of the 2% registration of deed at the completion of property & they said yes. However the letter I received clearly mentions that this fee is in addition to any other fees due on completion. It all looks very fishy. I am not paying until I get some answers from the Land Department & Rera.
I will let you guys know if I can get a clear answer from the authorities. But I doubt anyone knows a shit.
One lesson to learn for all of us... next time we want to spend our money...stay away of Dubai...


----------



## IISinbadII

Imre said:


> "*the main problem, they dont know what they want*


*

They need to make up their mind....fast. 

When property was selling like hot cake.....they thought who needs to give perks to these foreigners. They took a U-turn and what happened......people stopped buying.*


----------



## peacesells

DubaiExpat said:


> Could anyone confirm on this. From reliable sources it is understood that there will be no 70% refund on cancelling a real estate investment deal. You stand to lose all the money you invested if you can't adhere to the payment terms or in case if you can't obtain a mortgage. I am one of the loser since I can't manage further payments & also unable to sell my property. The developer is refusing a refund & said the 70% refund is not in force.


http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/08/11/13/10259241.html

There's a lot of misconception surrounding this issue, and rightly so.

Basically, if you have bought the unit prior to this law taking effect (as per the link above, it is 12.11.08 but please correct me as I seem to recall it being issued earlier), what you can and cannot keep is written in the sales contract and this rule does not apply. 

A typical JV contract goes something like this:

_In the event that the Purchaser fails to fulfill on the due date any of the terms and conditions of the agreement, then the Seller shall give the Purchaser, a fourteen (14) days notice in writing calling on the Purchaser to remedy such default and if the Purchaser fails to comply with such notice, or, in the event, prior to the payment of full Purchaser price, the Purchaser becomes bankrupt, enters into liquidation, makes a general assignment for the benefit of creditors, takes the benefit of any act of insolvency, or if any similar proceedings are instituted by or against the Purchaser, or if a permanent receiver, or trustee in bankruptcy then in any such event, the Seller shall be entitled, without further notice and without prejudice to any other rights available in law:

- To terminate this agreement, and

- To claim compensation from the Purchaser for the direct loss suffered by the Seller as a result of the default by the Purchaser to perform his obligations pursuant to this agreement. The Seller shall, pursuant the above mentioned provisions, be entitled to retain *an amount equivalent to 25% of the purchase price*, as pre-estimated liquidated damages, which the Purchaser expressly agrees is a true and reasonable pre-estimated of the damages that will be suffered by the Seller as a result of the Purchaser's default._

That part in bold, as far as I know, was mandatory for all JV sub-developers although that rule could have been implemented before your specific contract was signed. Basically, if you're stuck and not able to continue, you can request for everything you paid over 25%. Keep in mind - just because the developer should pay you, doesn't mean they will do so immediately - be prepared to wait for months/years.


----------



## peacesells

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ No, if developer goes backrupt then you get 100% back from escrow. Only if the buyers can not make payment then you get all back after the first 30% paid or 100% back if the contractual completion date has expired.


In theory.


----------



## 234sale

If its not in the orginial contract,, you shouldn't have to pay it.


----------



## iced

peacesells said:


> In theory.


i think i understand. Escrow is linked to construction so the developer can withdraw money from the escrow once certain points are reached. This means that there is less money in the escrow then the amount paid so far. So if a developer goes bust then you get whats left in the escrow.

also there is the assumption that escrow accounts are being used properly which so far there has been no evidence to suggest it has or it has not.


----------



## gerald.d

IISinbadII said:


> They need to make up their mind....fast.
> 
> When property was selling like hot cake.....they thought who needs to give perks to these foreigners. They took a U-turn and what happened......people stopped buying.


Did people stop buying because of the visa situation, or did people stop buying because the world economy tanked, thus causing the Dubai property bubble to burst?


----------



## skdubai

^^ all of the above... the perfect storm!!!!


----------



## tehsin123

gerald.d said:


> Did people stop buying because of the visa situation, or did people stop buying because the world economy tanked, thus causing the Dubai property bubble to burst?


I think it was both. Visa situation added fuel to the fire. People felt very unsafe about their investment if visa was not assured. You won't like to buy a house which you can't visit when u like. 
Secondly, it gave a message about lack of consistency in the policies, which is more damaging the the decision itself.


----------



## rexdmx

High Times said:


> Simply to create the illusion that Dubai's Real Estate market is regulated.
> 
> The US securities and exchange commission is supposed to regulate financial instruments in the States and look what has just happened, is happening, and will happen.
> 
> Regulation of any industry is difficult, but when it's all about people making money out of other people it becomes near immpossible im afraid.


well regulation cant prevent all frauds...many have been prevented. just a few mighty ones come out. plus the system have had some flaws for a while with SEC officials joining wall street


----------



## rexdmx

HappyLarry said:


> Thanks Steve for clarifying. I was just feeling prematurely gutted for people losing any hard-earned/borrowed money.


happens in all countries and with all asset classes.


----------



## peacesells

iced said:


> i think i understand. Escrow is linked to construction so the developer can withdraw money from the escrow once certain points are reached. This means that there is less money in the escrow then the amount paid so far. So if a developer goes bust then you get whats left in the escrow.
> 
> also there is the assumption that escrow accounts are being used properly which so far there has been no evidence to suggest it has or it has not.


You are correct. In theory, if a developer goes bust while the project is under construction, you become the co-owner of whatever is built plus whatever is left in the escrow account and in theory can agree with the other owners to hire a different developer (or if the construction is under way, you will only need a project management firm) to finish the project. It will probably cost more money now - the delay alone is a cost in itself, but it is doable. If you prefer to get out, well, you can try selling your contract to someone else (good luck with that) or simply walking away. I doubt RERA and the other owners will let you dip into whatever cash reserves are in the escrow to get YOUR money back, UNLESS the developer did not spend any of it and that is highly unlikely since you can use escrow funds to pay for project management, marketing and brokerage, land and architectural consultancy, besides construction.

To fully understand how all this will work in practice, we need a precedent. I don't have access to info about one, so if anyone does, please share it.


----------



## Hanna

*There must be someone after all in Dubai with joined up thinking !*

A residential area in Dubai. Master developers had stopped facilitating investors with residence visas last year which provoked an outcry.
UAE plans unified freehold visa

By Saifur Rahman, Business Editor
Published: January 10, 2009, 23:35

Dubai: The UAE federal government is reviewing the issue of freehold property visas linked to foreigners' ownership of properties in different emirates, a top Dubai Government official told the media on Saturday.

"The Advisory Council [of Dubai Government] has submitted a proposal to the Federal Government on the issue of property-linked visas to review," Nasser Bin Hassan Al Shaikh, director-general of Dubai Government's Department of Finance, said at a media briefing on the sidelines of the government's 2009 budget announcement.
"Since a number of emirates have developed their own freehold visa arrangements, there are thoughts at the federal level to streamline the process and announce a unified guideline for all the emirates." Dubai Government created the Advisory Council in October last year, to assess the impact of the global financial crisis on Dubai's economy, which has been hit due to an outflow of capital, estimated to be well above Dh200 billion.He said there could be a new law guiding this soon, without giving any timeframe. When asked if he expects a positive resolution, he replied, "Yes, I hope so."
The freehold visa issue has come to light in recent months when major master developers Nakheel and Emaar - who have been helping foreign buyers of freehold properties to get three-year renewable residence visas - had stopped facilitating them last year, prompting investor outcry.Experts have welcomed the move, saying the country needed a unified regulation on this and a streamlined procedure to restore investor confidence. "It is reassuring. It is positive news and will bring a lot of faith and confidence in the market," Sudhir Kumar, managing director of Realtor's International, a property consultancy."The matter of freehold visas has been an issue of major concern for real estate investors. This addresses the concern. With this, the government is showing its strength and resilience in the time of crisis."
Dubai's master-developers have, since 2002, been pledging "freehold visas" to attract foreign investors to the emirate's real estate sector, in the absence of a proper rule to dictate this.Since then, they have facilitated this to lots of buyers having a special arrangement with the Dubai Naturalisation and Residency department. Subsequently, a number of master-developers in Ajman and Ras Al Khaimah followed suit, attracting massive investment into their real estate sector.
Five out of the UAE's seven emirates now have designated areas where foreign nationals can buy and own properties on a freehold and leasehold basis. Sharjah does not allow non-Arabs to own properties on a freehold basis.
Abu Dhabi allows foreigner to own what it calls "surface property" and not the land on designated areas. However, there is no federal law to regulate the freehold property market and visa issuance linked to property ownership to foreigners.
As per the UAE constitution, land of each emirate belongs to Rulers and they decide the ownership, usage and allocation of the land..
Do you think the unified freehold visa would boost investor confidence? What else could be done to reassure investors? Fill in the form bellow to send your comments.

Your comments
I think it will help boost the market. Why would people invest their money in a new country if they cannot access their own property whenever they want to? Even the duration of the visit visa has been reduced. If an investor is willing to come and buy a property, he/she would need some time.
Ahmed Al hamed
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 12:26

I believe this is a long awaited decision by the authorities and will not only give a sense of stability to the expatriates living in the country but will also help boost the investor?s confidence in UAE as a real estate market.
Syed Naved Murtaza
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 12:24

If UAE provides residence visa for the purchase a flat, villa or land it will bring the property situation back to normal. They can also extend the duration of this visa instead of a renewable visa for three years.
Khurshid uz Zaman Khan
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 12:15

Yes, it will definitely boost investor confidence and minimise capital outflow. We have already seen the effect of the suspension of residence visa.
Ali Halliyeh
Abu Dhabi,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 12:01

Yes. A freehold visa will surely support investor confidence in the market and attract more cash in flow, especially when it is processed by the government at the federal level instead of the property developers.
Tarek Serageldin
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 12:00

Freehold visa is the main issue for a lot of investors and there is no doubt that it will boost investor confidence. It will help to boost sales, too.
Yelena
Sharjah,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 11:59

This is a great move. I do hope that the law will apply to all the investors who have already purchased a property, too. Overall, it will boost the confidence of investors and the end users. It will also save the property market in Dubai from deteriorating.
Shohreh
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 11:42

This is a good way to boost the number of property buyers.
Zohaib
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 11:41

Yes. But at the same time this should be monitored by the government.
Saleel
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 11:37

It could help return some investor confidence, but not all as some of them are just looking for the profits, not the visa. Another step that could encourage both investors and end users is if developers revise property prices even for sold units. This is because the cost of building materials is lower now. Otherwise, the investor will end up being the big loser.
Ramin
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 11:36

Yes, restoration of freehold visa will boost investor confidence. However, there should be consistency in the regulations.
Waqar
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 11:35

The freehold properties and visa have contributed greatly to Dubai?s development. Most property investors come to Dubai for the visa.
Mohammad R
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 11:18

The market needs confidence building measures, especially at this juncture of financial and credit crisis and global economic downturn. If the plan of a unified freehold visa law is passed, the UAE market, which is a dream destination for many, will get the boost, not only for realty, but for a host of other industries as well and it will have a positive impact on investor confidence and the stock markets. The progress and gains made by UAE as a favourite destination for business, tourism, investment and financial centre should be developed and consolidated further.
Jerome Quadros
Abu Dhabi,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 10:57

I think it's good step, but it won?t help. During the banking boom, everyone worked using money from banks and could, therefore, invest their own money to real estate. Currently, people are using their own money for work and cannot make such investments. Secondly, the prices are still too high due to the real estate boom.
Andrius
Sharjah,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 10:46

Yes, I think this is a great step in bringing confidence back to foreign investors. Dubai?s real estate sector is very promising and a resurrection of the real estate sector in Dubai seems to be very imminent. One more step that I think would revive the realty sector is if banks increase the loan to value ratio to at least 85 per cent.
Nasser
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 10:18

Yes, this should work as the main reason behind any investment is to look for security. Why and how will a person invest if there is no security of being able to come and go or stay whenever he/she wants?
Tasneem Shakil Daud
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 10:16

Receiving residence visas was one of the biggest attraction for investors while buying properties in Dubai. Additionally, the investors who are not living in Dubai but have invested would need a residence visa to easily come to Dubai as and when required to manage their property and make more investments in Dubai?s economy. While there can be a restriction to the number of visas issued per property, it should not be stopped completely.
Sharan
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 10:14

I welcome this move by the government. Allowing the residence visa will not only boost investors? sentiment but also the overall economic growth.
Ajay Poddar
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 09:58

We need this law as soon as possible. It would give a major boost to confidence.
AJ
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 09:58

The only way to bring investor confidence back to the end users would be to reduce the maintenance fee and keeping the promise for quality construction, proper sewage and drainage, and ultimately the visa. I think the visa issue is the last concern, over all. I have heard of cases where people have bought new properties but are suffering due to leakages.
Mohad
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 09:47

I have bought three properties in Dubai and a property visa was always my concern. There was hardly anyone who gave me a clear picture on this. I hope after this law is passed things are clearer
Jeet Arora
Mumbai,India
Posted: January 11, 2009, 09:04

How can investors enter UAE without a visa? There is a need for a permanent rule to allow property owners to travel to UAE frequently. The property sector needs services like free entry, renewable long term visas and permission to start a business. This will help the market survive longer.
Raja Abid
London,UK
Posted: January 11, 2009, 09:01

The unified freehold visa will boost investors' confidence. It will attract and encourage foreign investors to invest in the property market.
Shohreh
Dubai,UAE
Posted: January 11, 2009, 08:45

It is important that the economies and regulations of UAE open up to retain and attract foreign investment. If developers go back on the incentive of residency permit for foreign property buyers, it will reduce the attraction Dubai hold and the authorities should address these concerns as soon as possible.
Qasim Khan
Moscow,Russia
Posted: January 11, 2009, 04:47


----------



## Peter Pan in Dubai

*Outcome of my meeting with DSC*

*1. Regarding the 2% Registration fee for the Land Department Interim:*
The law clearly says the 2% fee should be split fifty fifty between the buyer & seller (Law No. (13) of 2008). DSC insists that the buyer pays the entire amount since the Canal Residence sales contract includes a clause saying: "any additional fees from the authorities must be paid solely by the buyer". So this contract gives somehow the right to DSC to break the law ? I whish some lawyer in this forum would advise us on that. DSC "believes" this fee replaces the final title deed registration on completion date but it could not confirm this.
To clarify the letter sent from DSC: they ask for 1% payment since this is what is supposed to be their share of the fees (the law stipulates that the seller pays this 1%). Dubai Bank or whichever bank is financing CR will send a similar letter to you asking for another 1% as the buyers fee (the other 1% that the buyer must pay). In this case, we are paying the entire fee ourselves 1% to the developer & 1% to the bank. Outrageous but true.
*2. Payment Plan:*
DSC promised that the payment plan is being rescheduled (on the demand of Dubai Bank !!!) & the bank will advise mortgagees soon about the new plan which will be linked to the construction phase as per the UAE laws. For those (like me) who have already paid much more than what the law dictates for a building that is still in the pilling phase, must talk to the bank for potential adjustments.
*3. Construction Status:*
Construction is ongoing. DSC sent me some photos but I got to figure out how to upload it on this site. I have scheduled Sunday next week for CR site check. I will take photos unless it is not allowed by DSC.
*4. Completion Date: *
DSC says April to June 2010 for phase 1
*5. Phase 2:*
Is being built by UNEC as well. Construction has started.

PS: all statements above have been given by Mr. Amer Khan & Mr. Rajesh Hegde from DSC real estate department.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think they should extend the visit visa from 30 days. If I am retired and want to spend the winter in my Dubai apartment for 2 or 3 months each year, I would hope to be able to do so without having to drive to Oman all the time. Otherwise why bother buying a holdiay home in Dubai! In the USA I could get a 3 month or 6 month visit visa every year no problem as a retired person.


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## smussuw

^^ RERA cheif said that they are going to have something like that for the ones owning properties.


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## aazain

^^^^BY WHEN???


----------



## houshang

Residency Visa
They should not come up with anything less than what they promised in early days of foreign property ownership annoncement. The only acceptable excuse can be that they only wanted to regulate the previous property linked visa rules and not that they wanted to twist it. Anything short of that would be demonstration of inconsistency in decisions I am afraid.


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## IISinbadII

^^ Exactly..... investors need REASSURANCE that government policies are consistent and that they could be trusted. They will keep their promises and not go back on their word. Off course, they could have checks and balances in place. But the previous policy of giving Residence Visas to property owners and their families will continue.


----------



## DubaiExpat

peacesells said:


> http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/08/11/13/10259241.html
> 
> There's a lot of misconception surrounding this issue, and rightly so.
> 
> Basically, if you have bought the unit prior to this law taking effect (as per the link above, it is 12.11.08 but please correct me as I seem to recall it being issued earlier), what you can and cannot keep is written in the sales contract and this rule does not apply.
> 
> A typical JV contract goes something like this:
> 
> _In the event that the Purchaser fails to fulfill on the due date any of the terms and conditions of the agreement, then the Seller shall give the Purchaser, a fourteen (14) days notice in writing calling on the Purchaser to remedy such default and if the Purchaser fails to comply with such notice, or, in the event, prior to the payment of full Purchaser price, the Purchaser becomes bankrupt, enters into liquidation, makes a general assignment for the benefit of creditors, takes the benefit of any act of insolvency, or if any similar proceedings are instituted by or against the Purchaser, or if a permanent receiver, or trustee in bankruptcy then in any such event, the Seller shall be entitled, without further notice and without prejudice to any other rights available in law:
> 
> - To terminate this agreement, and
> 
> - To claim compensation from the Purchaser for the direct loss suffered by the Seller as a result of the default by the Purchaser to perform his obligations pursuant to this agreement. The Seller shall, pursuant the above mentioned provisions, be entitled to retain *an amount equivalent to 25% of the purchase price*, as pre-estimated liquidated damages, which the Purchaser expressly agrees is a true and reasonable pre-estimated of the damages that will be suffered by the Seller as a result of the Purchaser's default._
> 
> That part in bold, as far as I know, was mandatory for all JV sub-developers although that rule could have been implemented before your specific contract was signed. Basically, if you're stuck and not able to continue, you can request for everything you paid over 25%. Keep in mind - just because the developer should pay you, doesn't mean they will do so immediately - be prepared to wait for months/years.


thank u for the clarification. literally it means u should have paid a minimum of 25% to lodge a claim. i have paid only 15%. so better i wash my hands. the contract was signed in july 2008.


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## kuttika

*rera to change rule once again*

I have just received a mail from an investor that he was informed by rera today that the 20% minimum payment before construction starts has now once again been changed to 30%....................rules changing daily.....how will any one buy in this market...........has anyone else heard about this...


----------



## worried1

*You again smussuw*



smussuw said:


> ^^ RERA cheif said that they are going to have something like that for the ones owning properties.


Get rid of foreigners!!!! you dont like them. You are a Dubai government employee. See what will happen. Back to camels:lol:


----------



## Hanna

worried1 said:


> Get rid of foreigners!!!! you dont like them. You are a Dubai government employee. See what will happen. Back to camels:lol:


I think the smuss has let the cat out out of the bag as regards the
Government's concern about the dreaded foreigners,they need them
for the money then they can make up new laws on a daily basis to 
con people .What a trustworthy shower the nation is ! :cheers:


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## smussuw

I don't have a problem with residence visa that allow them to stay for maximum 3 months a year for example. RERA chief said that they will introduce this visa so that investors can check and take care of their investments and not as a channel to live in the country.


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## Hanna

*Visa*

3 months is not enough,we were promised by developers we would get a 
visa now that the Dubai Government has pulled in all the mugs (clients) they
come along and said to the developers stop telling the people after all these 
years you will get a visa, it's wrong we cannot do that kind of thing,after all 
these years of promises and the Government came out late last year and went back on a promise. And don't dare insult my intelligence and say the Government new nothing about what was the developers contract stated to the clients.

A sensible way forword would be a 3 year renewable one with vetting of the people.I am not saying let everyone stay in your country like the UK Government does,you know what trouble that would bring to you.I thought Dubai would be a better place to stay than the rank rotten Uk. 3 months a year is no good what's the point in that stupid regime, if you go ahead with that type of a system mark my word's you better have some good ideas's on selling property because it will end your sales dead. :cheers:


Air ambulance sent to save unconscious rider is ordered off £9m Sheik Mohammed Al Maktoume Scottish estate. I bet he has not got a 3 months visa to stay in Bonnie Scotland,double standards me thinks.


P.S 
You police must have a lot of inside info because I have never heard once of a Max 3 month stay per annum. I thought you were emirate's not Kamakazi's just wait and see what will happen to the country if they pass that rule.


----------



## baba toto

How come they have not put their name on the board i.e. DEC (Dheeraj & East Coast)??

Instead the name shown is Minas General Trading Est...Who are they????:bash:


----------



## jeetha

Hanna said:


> P.S
> You police must have a lot of inside info because I have never heard once of a Max 3 month stay per annum. I thought you were emirate's not Kamakazi's just wait and see what will happen to the country if they pass that rule.



Marwan Bin Galita (CEO, Rera) is his brother-in-law.


----------



## Hanna

*Visa 3 months per year way to go (not)*



jeetha said:


> Marwan Bin Galita (CEO, Rera) is his brother-in-law.



If that is true then that explains a lot :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

smussuw said:


> I don't have a problem with residence visa that allow them to stay for maximum 3 months a year for example. RERA chief said that they will introduce this visa so that investors can check and take care of their investments and not as a channel to live in the country.


I would be happy with that as I and may others would only want to live in Dubai for the winter in their holiday home. Although I think it should be possible to extend to 6 months per year by paying a fee or something, similar to the US. It is difficult to get a permanent VISA there also but they do have 3 and 6 month visit visas. I see no reason why Dubai should be any different to the US regarding VISAs unless they need to attract extra investors from Iran and so on. You can always start a company or something to get a long term VISA in Dubai.


----------



## i love dubai

Even if an investor 3 years visa is given again then what? When the realestate market picks up again in few more years, would they cancel them again? 
Trust of the investor in the UAE is gone.hno:


----------



## HarryKane

worried1 said:


> Back to camels:lol:


I'm all for that. The less cars on the road, the better.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

i love dubai said:


> Even if an investor 3 years visa is given again then what? When the realestate market picks up again in few more years, would they cancel them again?
> Trust of the investor in the UAE is gone.hno:


Yes trust has gone, so they have no choice but to make a good and clear set of rules for the whole UAE now.


----------



## HappyLarry

smussuw said:


> I don't have a problem with residence visa that allow them to stay for maximum 3 months a year for example. RERA chief said that they will introduce this visa so that investors can check and take care of their investments and not as a channel to live in the country.


If that is a general view then I think Dubai will be missing a trick.
We have all heard how wealthy Dubai is etc etc. Alas, facts and debt figures paint a different picture.
Dubai will need high net worth investors to come and enjoy Dubai's hospitality as and when and however long it is required. Of course, the high net worth will be paying for services used. Whether it be indirect taxation or privilege of using facilities like Healthcare & Leisure. Restricting property investors who want Dubai as a second home would be seen as disappointing and they will remove their wealth to elsewhere. In that case, that will only hurt Dubai's reputation as a forward looking destination.


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## Dubai_Steve

^^ well I agree a permanent visa option would be nice for those that make a substantial investment in Dubai whether property or a company etc. Some smaller countries do this already in order to attract wealth. For example the english speaking, tax free Turks & Caicos islands will give you a permanent VISA if you invest $250,000 or more in property.


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## IISinbadII

The Residence Visa should be nothing less than what government backed developers like Emaar have been offering all these years. A 3 year renewable UAE Residence Visa, upon completion of payment and handover of the property, for the owner and his family. Plus ability to sponsor a maid servant. 

http://www.emaar.com/Emaar.Upload/E.../Eligibility Criteria for Residence Visas.pdf

http://www.emaar.com/Emaar.Upload/EMR-SINGAPORE-EN-US/CMS/PDF/Residence Visa Fact Sheet - MAID.pdf

If they really want the market to pick-up again and get immune from the global downturn, they should introduce something like "Dubai, my second home" program. Thousands of end-users have bought property in Dubai, Ajman and elsewhere as "security homes", "holiday homes" and "retirement homes". Many are living in UAE and sending their children to schools. Naturally they have means to support their families and are contributing to the economy. 

That is what the property boom was all about. Otherwise we don't need so many projects and towers.

Strong reassurance from the government that they would continue to offer residence visa will boost investor moral, increase demand from end-users and fill up all the thousands of units expected to flood the market in coming years.


----------



## worried1

*You sure-that is great*



Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ well I agree a permanent visa option would be nice for those that make a substantial investment in Dubai whether property or a company etc. Some smaller countries do this already in order to attract wealth. For example the english speaking, tax free Turks & Caicos islands will give you a permanent VISA if you invest $250,000 or more in property.


 Are you sure, Me and my friends would really consider Turks &Caicos if for 250000$ I am welcome. Does the Dubai government have a sysytem whereby they will buy back property from foreigners who feel they do not want to stay with Dubai's 2020 vision of foreigners. that would be good for the Dubai government because 90% of foreigners who are wealthy enough to have made investments:lol: may take up this offer and leave.


----------



## worried1

*Some Good news for Dubai*

A recent article in economist indicated that Dubai needed oil at 23$ to break even in its budget while Venezuela needed oil at 90$.

This is great news for Dubai, even if they kick out the foreigners


----------



## liwanowner

Gentlemen, I'm a new user here and wish to share briefly some updates that I've received on this project. Last week, (end of Dec) I was informed by Mazaya that their management has made a decision to update their payment policy so that anyone who has made more than 30% of the payment will not have to make any additional payments until a new revised payment schedule is ready. The reason cited has been to "show solidarity with our investors", whatever that means...

I own an apartment in R004 and asked if this was only for my apartment or others as well and was told that it was for all Mazaya investors who have bought at Liwan/Queue Point. Since I have paid over 30% (55% actually) and have one last payment due in March 09, before last handover payment, I was told, when I asked further questions, that I could bring my receipts and collect the cheque due to be cashed in March 09. There is no refund of excess payment because I am told that the project is pretty much on track and that they (Mazaya) are committed to complete the project within "handover date mentioned in SPA". I am not sure what they are referring to here. I was also told that we would receive a monthly construction update providing us with progress each month and that the reason no pictures of progress made in on R004 had been put up on the website (http://www.queuepoint-l*********) was because work on R004 started in December, even though I've been paying up for nearly 2 years now!!!!

Just wanted to check if others here are on the same boat?


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## smussuw

^^ Actually, according to what I read they took $45 for the oil as the base and they still had 4 billion Dirhams budget deficit.



jeetha said:


> Marwan Bin Galita (CEO, Rera) is his brother-in-law.


LOL, u've been following me all along huh? Marwan's brother is my brother-in-law, not Marwan himself. I only met Marwan once and u don't wanna know how he thinks, he seemed like a clever subtle guy though :lol:


----------



## jeetha

Yes Smussuw! I remember you saying something between those lines. Brother-in-law’s brother ~ still family NO?

I’m sure he is very clever…...so how does he think? 

I mean...... does he think like you? LOL


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## smussuw

^^ worse :shifty:

but of course he is constrained by what the government wants !


----------



## DubaiExpat

why not UAE give a visa similar to Malaysia - a 10 year multiple entry investor visa for the investor & family, renewable after the initial 10 years. UAE can go back on its words anytime - it has happenned several times. Each department like immigration, rera, the free zones, etc. give different explanations to a rule announced in the media. Be it on the real estate or on metro, road projects, toll, illegal immigrants.


----------



## dbxdude

Today i am in a positive frame of mind. :banana:

VISA SITUATION
Its very expensive for holiday makers from Europe and Especially the UK right now, but exchange rates do and will change. Just like people will leave Dubai and they will come back. We all know various government departments make hasty decisions, then they think about it and eventually do the thing that makes most sense. The intention is always positive even if some actions are sometimes misguided. Whats great is the freedom of the press to air these issues which ultimately leads to the correct course of action. IMHO

CREDIT CRUNCH
There is alot of work out there for the right companies be it in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Bharain, Qatar. A good company wants to be in the middle east, not the UK or US or even the Far East where things are much much worse. Its time to look at the world as a whole and to be honest the UAE was the last place affected by the credit crisis and the swiftness of this effect may be a positive thing since the sooner you bottom out the sooner you can bounce back. Indications are the stock market has bottomed, oil may have bottomed and the number of depressed properties on sale in PRIME location have decreased, palm prices for shoreline have firmed if not risen. 1 beds sea facing were 1.5-1.8 now 2.1-2.3. There is some downside left and summer may be very bad, but i think the POTENTIAL for a positive upswing is higher then it was 2 months ago. MY 2 CENTS.....

ULTIMATELY... 
All the positive fundamentals that made Dubai such a success have not suddenly disappeared and remember the leadership and direction they have taken has always been medium to long term view and to date.... they have always been vindicated. 

If im wrong there is always RIO!


----------



## peacesells

DubaiExpat said:


> thank u for the clarification. literally it means u should have paid a minimum of 25% to lodge a claim. i have paid only 15%. so better i wash my hands. the contract was signed in july 2008.


As I said, it all depends on what is written in YOUR contract. Also, you can negotiate with the developer y'know, just make sure you speak to the right person (no, not the receptionist or the guy from the call center). Whatever you do, do not just write-off the downpayment as a loss and walk away without saying anything. We have a number of clients who did that and we're keeping all of their money while reselling their apartments for cheap to save the cash flow problem they created. We also have a bunch of clients who approached us and asked for partial refunds, payment holidays and down-grades. Guess what? We worked with the guys who approached us and minimized the damage to everyone involved by meeting with them and working out feasible solutions.


----------



## DubaiExpat

Thanks again. I shall try all those options mentioned.


----------



## abf

houshang said:


> Residency Visa
> They should not come up with anything less than what they promised in early days of foreign property ownership annoncement. The only acceptable excuse can be that they only wanted to regulate the previous property linked visa rules and not that they wanted to twist it. Anything short of that would be demonstration of inconsistency in decisions I am afraid.


Investors have contributed a lot to dubai and it would be a shame if authorities start having second thoughts. As investors if they want to live they would probably bring more rather than take anything from Dubai so Dubai should deliver what is promised.
I agree with the above


----------



## smussuw

^^ are those the same investors who were financed by Emirati banks and got 400% ROI? I think it is more accurate to say that they got more that what they've given (that is if they've given anything) :dunno:


----------



## abf

What happened in the past was not investors choice but the bankers choice. It cannot be held against investors simply because some made money and some are losing now. That would be jealousy and not straight forward business as promised


----------



## Mistermark

I think Dubai MUST relent and grant full (not three-month) residence visas for the following reasons:

1. The Government was complicit in this being offered from the outset, by developers part-owned by the ruling family and others within master developments controlled by them. There is absolutely no way they can go back on this without seriously undermining their own credibility and hence the willingness of people elsewhere in the world to trade with them, investing in property and generally, going forward;

2. It is economically beneficial. A growing country with a small indigenous population benefits from an influx of wealthy people who are able to support themselves;

3. It is necessary economically. There are other countries offering residency for people of independent means who invest in property there, and Dubai cannot realistically expect people to invest without this incentive. Also, in a country with no social security provision for ex-pats and those who enter on work visas having to leave within 30 days if they lose their jobs and a very small native population, the economy generally and housing market are extremely volatile and exposed to changes in the labour market brought about by economic conditions. Close the door to residency and the property market is unlikely to recover


I appreciate that the ruling family may be keen to ensure that undesirables don't come and settle, so there's no problem with introducing police references and ensuring that people can support themselves financially. But once these things are achieved, a property owner should have the right to stay in their property - simple as that. If Dubai can't or won't offer this, it shouldn't expect to sell properties on the promise that it can.


----------



## Hanna

Mistermark said:


> I think Dubai MUST relent and grant full (not three-month) residence visas for the following reasons:
> 
> 1. The Government was complicit in this being offered from the outset, by developers part-owned by the ruling family and others within master developments controlled by them. There is absolutely no way they can go back on this without seriously undermining their own credibility and hence the willingness of people elsewhere in the world to trade with them, investing in property and generally, going forward;
> 
> 2. It is economically beneficial. A growing country with a small indigenous population benefits from an influx of wealthy people who are able to support themselves;
> 
> 3. It is necessary economically. There are other countries offering residency for people of independent means who invest in property there, and Dubai cannot realistically expect people to invest without this incentive. Also, in a country with no social security provision for ex-pats and those who enter on work visas having to leave within 30 days if they lose their jobs and a very small native population, the economy generally and housing market are extremely volatile and exposed to changes in the labour market brought about by economic conditions. Close the door to residency and the property market is unlikely to recover
> 
> 
> I appreciate that the ruling family may be keen to ensure that undesirables don't come and settle, so there's no problem with introducing police references and ensuring that people can support themselves financially. But once these things are achieved, a property owner should have the right to stay in their property - simple as that. If Dubai can't or won't offer this, it shouldn't expect to sell properties on the promise that it can.


Hi Mister

Well said 100% agree

The smuss has a problem with these pesky foreigners being in the country for 3 months and over.They must be having a good laugh in there tents at night at the stupid people that bought into the Dubai dream,the gaull of them to think they could come and go as the please.If his Brother in law has more unfriendly thoughts than he has what chance do you have, it must be rife throughout the country about the enemy the (clients that bought there own property) with false promises, we have to lull them in in their droves then change the law then we get everything back of them at a big discount when they cannot sell the properties.If this was there idea I think the have boobed big time the credit crunch has come at the right time to stop them in there tracks.You cannot trust them now they can and will change the rules at the drop of a hat 'no democracy' tends to work like that as we know. :cheers:


----------



## romaforever

> I was buying in May 2007 the following unit (METRO TOWER):
> 
> Floor: 32nd.
> 
> View: Wadi Walk
> 
> Surface area: 667 sqfeet or 61.97 sq m
> 
> Price: 620,977 AED
> 
> 
> Then the personal situation stopped me from doing so. Should I be happy or disappointed in view of what has been happening in Dubai's market (possible oversupply, late delivery, increase of inflation etc.)?


Please answer to this question. Considering the problems of the market in Dubai, what do you think?


----------



## MrCricket

^^Considering the progress achieved in city of arabia, you definetly did a wise thing by not investing in it.

You can still get it for a cheaper price or the same price.


----------



## romaforever

Thank you MrCricket. Cheaper price means that somebody bought it and must sell because of the credit problems?


----------



## HappyLarry

_*Business 24-7 13/1/09
Ahmed Ramdan, CEO, Roya International said: "Developers such as Emaar and Dubai Properties have not come with data transparencies. Moreover, service charges in Jumeirah Beach Residence have increased maintenance fees from Dh9.5 per square foot to Dh21.75 per square foot. 

"The industry is looking for regulation to become fair and transparent. I believe Rera is trying to implement the Strata law", he said.*_

Increase from 9.5 to 21.75. More than double!
Hey Sumusuw - as you have an inside track with those in charge, you've got to let Rera and Sh. Mo know that people feel being ripped off and that is not a part of the Dubai dream.hno:


----------



## Naz UK

Yeah, i'm worried too Happy Larry. Inshallah, we should get a reply on this from Rera/Sheikh Mohammed in the next few days, can't wait. :sleepy:


----------



## Safrica

peacesells said:


> As I said, it all depends on what is written in YOUR contract. Also, you can negotiate with the developer y'know, just make sure you speak to the right person (no, not the receptionist or the guy from the call center). Whatever you do, do not just write-off the downpayment as a loss and walk away without saying anything. We have a number of clients who did that and we're keeping all of their money while reselling their apartments for cheap to save the cash flow problem they created. We also have a bunch of clients who approached us and asked for partial refunds, payment holidays and down-grades. Guess what? We worked with the guys who approached us and minimized the damage to everyone involved by meeting with them and working out feasible solutions.


Hi does anyone know of someone at nakheel that can assist with a similar problem. Please assist


----------



## smussuw

HappyLarry said:


> Increase from 9.5 to 21.75. More than double!
> Hey Sumusuw - as you have an inside track with those in charge, you've got to let Rera and Sh. Mo know that people feel being ripped off and that is not a part of the Dubai dream.hno:


If I had someone I wouldn't be whining all the time in the internet. 

Speaking of those exaggerated service charges, I never understood the monopoly behind it. Shouldn't you as owners decide what company take care of ur property?


----------



## Freestyler

peacesells said:


> As I said, it all depends on what is written in YOUR contract. Also, you can negotiate with the developer y'know, just make sure you speak to the right person (no, not the receptionist or the guy from the call center). Whatever you do, do not just write-off the downpayment as a loss and walk away without saying anything. We have a number of clients who did that and we're keeping all of their money while reselling their apartments for cheap to save the cash flow problem they created. We also have a bunch of clients who approached us and asked for partial refunds, payment holidays and down-grades. Guess what? We worked with the guys who approached us and minimized the damage to everyone involved by meeting with them and working out feasible solutions.


How much did they pay before they walked away? I guess it is too late for me, I already paid 40%.


----------



## HappyLarry

Naz UK said:


> Yeah, i'm worried too Happy Larry. Inshallah, we should get a reply on this from Rera/Sheikh Mohammed in the next few days, can't wait. :sleepy:


Well, he's got till Friday or I am sending in the clowns. I am sure they will do no worse.


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> ^^ are those the same investors who were financed by Emirati banks and got 400% ROI? I think it is more accurate to say that they got more that what they've given (that is if they've given anything) :dunno:


Actually, most property purchased by foreigners is self financed, IMO. This was confirmed by many investors on this forum in reply to a questionnaire few weeks back. Its people's hard earned money that they have put in Dubai.


----------



## IISinbadII

*Rera chief executive says rent caps are not needed 'in a tough year'*

By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: January 13, 2009, 00:01

Dubai: A rent cap is not needed this year, Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive of Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera), told Gulf News.

Many tenants in Dubai are still confused that no rent cap for 2009 has been announced. While the cap for 2008 was set at five per cent, this was due to run out at the end of last year.

Since then, nothing more has been said on the issue.

However, Bin Galita told Gulf News yesterday that in his opinion, no rent cap is necessary in 2009.

"*We don't need a rent cap this year. We need to freeze everything. 2009 is a tough year and we shouldn't interfere with rents too much*," Bin Galita said.

Bin Galita also said *rental rates should be fair to both landlords and tenants.*

Things are freeing up in Dubai's rental market, with many landlords accepting more than one cheque, a nice change from the wallet-squeezing one-cheque policy. Market analysts say rents in Dubai could begin to decline in the third quarter of this year.

"We need to carefully watch the situation. If there are more lay-offs, then certain number of families are expected to leave the country," an analyst told Gulf News, requesting anonymity.

"On top of that, more than 32,000 housing units will be supplied this year, which will help soften the market."

Bin Galita also said Rera and the land department are working towards a more specific complaint system, instead of the Rent Committee being responsible for everything.

The property court, already operational in Dubai, does not deal with rental disputes.

"We need one real estate tribunal for Dubai," Bin Galita said.

In line with this, Rera has a plan in place to establish a property agents committee, a developers committee and an evaluators committee in 2009.

Rera also recently created Ejari, an online tenacy contract registration site where agents and landlords must register all contracts.

This will finalise the *rental index*, which *Bin Galita stresses is intended only to be an indication of rental rates across Dubai, not an enforcement of rental rates.*

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10274811.html


----------



## nri-hotels

Living in Denial is the same as Blind Optimism.

Under current investment and living conditions, Dubai will become another white elephant in the making. The rulers should seriously consider absorbing and implementing liberal incentives, like citizenship (not just residency) for foreign investors, and casino business (if Lebanon and Malaysia can allow why cant Dubai ?)

One cant have your cake and eat it forever.





dbxdude said:


> Today i am in a positive frame of mind. :banana:
> 
> VISA SITUATION
> Its very expensive for holiday makers from Europe and Especially the UK right now, but exchange rates do and will change. Just like people will leave Dubai and they will come back. We all know various government departments make hasty decisions, then they think about it and eventually do the thing that makes most sense. The intention is always positive even if some actions are sometimes misguided. Whats great is the freedom of the press to air these issues which ultimately leads to the correct course of action. IMHO
> 
> CREDIT CRUNCH
> There is alot of work out there for the right companies be it in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Bharain, Qatar. A good company wants to be in the middle east, not the UK or US or even the Far East where things are much much worse. Its time to look at the world as a whole and to be honest the UAE was the last place affected by the credit crisis and the swiftness of this effect may be a positive thing since the sooner you bottom out the sooner you can bounce back. Indications are the stock market has bottomed, oil may have bottomed and the number of depressed properties on sale in PRIME location have decreased, palm prices for shoreline have firmed if not risen. 1 beds sea facing were 1.5-1.8 now 2.1-2.3. There is some downside left and summer may be very bad, but i think the POTENTIAL for a positive upswing is higher then it was 2 months ago. MY 2 CENTS.....
> 
> ULTIMATELY...
> All the positive fundamentals that made Dubai such a success have not suddenly disappeared and remember the leadership and direction they have taken has always been medium to long term view and to date.... they have always been vindicated.
> 
> If im wrong there is always RIO!


----------



## bizzybonita

Report: low real estate prices and rents in Dubai


The company «Asteco Property Management» Dubai have begun to see a decline in rental rates for offices, a result of global financial liquidity crisis, pointing to the many companies to reduce the size of its work and stop the expansion plans and launch new campaigns.

The company said in its report for the fourth quarter of 2008 «The areas most affected include the free zone projects, and Sheikh Zayed Road, Bur Dubai, Deira, which is concentrated in large multinational companies, office rents have fallen in the area of« JLT »by 16 % compared to the third quarter of the price in 2008 has seen rents in each of the Dubai Media City and Dubai 11, a decrease of 14%, respectively ».

The report added «The sales offices more flexibility to the state of deflation; because the gap between supply and demand for the purchase of commercial space is still wide due to the delay in the delivery of a number of projects in the« Business Bay »For example».

The Executive Director of the company «Asteco», Andrew Chambers: «If we take into account the current situation compared to other countries, the Dubai still has great features for the development of other business in view of the positive tax climate, and its geographical position, the stability of government support».

According to the report, the sales prices were also down housing, but areas such as «Dubai Inevstmint Park», and «International City», and «Discovery Gardens» did not record any change in prices during the last quarter of last year due to increased demand for housing prices occasion.

The «price recorded in the« Down Town Burj Dubai »3750, down from AED square foot in the third quarter to AED 2700 in the last quarter of 2008, a decrease of 28% as prices declined in the« Dubai Marina »by 18% from 2200 dirhams in the third quarter AED to the 1800 square foot in the fourth quarter of 2008 ».

On the other hand, prices of rental housing units and villas for the decline in 2008 with an annual growth rate of 4 and 8% respectively, and the average annual rental rates for units of the studio, and a room, and the two chambers, and three rooms in Dubai, 80 thousand dirhams, and 123 thousand dirhams, and 165 A. DH, and 243 thousand dirhams, respectively.

The temporary suspension of the loans given by banks, some positive impact on the rental market, as owners of real estate is now facilitating the tenants to pay premiums, allowing them to pay by check instead of 12 or three checks a year, at the same time, forced the criteria strict lending systems developers to provide more flexible financing and easy end-user in an attempt to attract buyers and to retain existing investors, the change in the market and turning to vendors of the market to other buyers.

Also contributed to the limited trading activity in Dubai over the past two months and the decline in sales of projects before implementation of the graphics would be a definite change from the real estate sector is governed by market speculation of the end-users.

The report concludes that the «real estate in 2009 will have the quality and value highly the excellent location, where the operation will affect this year's subway and public transport in the selection of individuals to the drug, which enhances the value of the premises of the buildings near the stations, and there will also be considerable variation in the values of sales and rental prices to reflect the quality and location and facilities; because individuals would have a wider choice ».

http://www.emaratalyoum.com/articles/2009/1/pages/01122009_7c094a69435e41879a5b80e4301eae52.aspx


----------



## bizzybonita

Concerns over the financial crisis of the banks lending to each other 

PL officials and banking experts from the reluctance of banks to borrow from each other, despite the facilities provided by the Central Bank, the fear of decline in the market value of the projects funded by the banks due to the implications of the global financial crisis.

They pointed out that the presence of some foreign investment banks have financial problems are not clear until the full size now, it is another reason to refrain from borrowing among themselves, while others were encouraged that the coming period will witness a significant decline in interest rates on bank lending to each other, which may encourage them to return to this tool for the provision of liquidity, especially in light of the growing interest on deposits.

And in detail, the general manager of Corporate Banking Group at National Bank of Abu Dhabi, Abdullah bin behind Otaiba «three months ago was the interest rate on loans between banks, or what is known about Baloibor 4.6%, this figure fell about 70 points three weeks ago to reach 3.9% this means that the cost of borrowing from banks are becoming less, thanks to the intervention of government facilities and the Central Bank recently, the two branches: the U.S. dollar swap Dirhams, and discounts, which would pay interest rates between banks to a further decline ».

The Otaiba «But what happens now that there is large-scale projects require funding, and all the bank does not want to scarce liquidity and reservations to deal with many other banks, in order to make sure of the volume of foreign investments, because the deterioration in the case of companies abroad, which takes funding from local banks affects them in the light of the increasing pace of bankruptcy, and lack of liquidity in some financial and trade ».

Increase the risk

The banking expert, Ahmed Rme, Vvsr what is going to say «the financial crisis affected the market value of the assets of the banks, which, if entered into a new lending may lead to increase their commitments, and thereby increase the proportion of the risk at the time the banks are trying to reduce the gap between the value of assets and market value of the book of registered in their budgets », adding that« banks refrained from lending or borrowing at the same pace that preceded the financial crisis began to resort to other tools to provide liquidity, such as demand deposits and term deposits, to meet the requirements of financing projects, and the reason is the fear of further commitments ».

Completion of the projects

The banking expert, Hassan Fahmi, saw that the «lack of confidence of the existing projects, especially in the real estate sector and the behavior of end-user who is very cautious, make banks more conservative in lending to continue the policy in general, particularly the requirements« Basel 2 », stresses capital adequacy, taking into account the risks and the risks of the internal market, which has increased with the impact of the global financial crisis ».

For his part, the banking official, Ayad Mahmoud Abdullah, that «each bank would prefer to retain any liquidity obtained, either by borrowing from the Central Bank or through deposits for reasons to continue funding its own projects, it does not matter whether the interest is high or down , as the hedge against the risks of the global financial crisis has become the primary concern of the bank's management »

http://www.emaratalyoum.com/Articles/2009/1/Pages/01132009_9aca70deaf434e83b64dcb42994f7087.aspx


----------



## MrCricket

^^Peter Pan I have an unit in Med.

And my unit is financed from Dubai Bank.

I am with you incase if you think it will be of some use if we approach DSC or DUBAI BANK as a small group.


----------



## gerald.d

nri-hotels said:


> Living in Denial is the same as Blind Optimism.
> 
> Under current investment and living conditions, Dubai will become another white elephant in the making. The rulers should seriously consider absorbing and implementing liberal incentives, like citizenship (not just residency) for foreign investors, and casino business (if Lebanon and Malaysia can allow why cant Dubai ?)
> 
> One cant have your cake and eat it forever.


Couldn't agree with you more. I reckon opening up to gaming is just about the only thing that could prevent a decline in property values by at least 50% from their current levels by the end of 2009.


----------



## Peter Pan in Dubai

MrCricket said:


> ^^Peter Pan I have an unit in Med.
> 
> And my unit is financed from Dubai Bank.
> 
> I am with you incase if you think it will be of some use if we approach DSC or DUBAI BANK as a small group.


Dear MrCricket, 

I have sent a mail to Miss Sabeena Yousuf, the person in charge of CRW at Dubai Bank. her email is [email protected] 
You (and all the CRW owners on this forum) may want to drop her an email asking to review your payment plan (construction linked), seek interest compensation & inquire about this 2% registration fee.
The more we are to communicate with Dubai Bank & DSC the stronger our voice reaches.
Let me know how it goes...


----------



## IISinbadII

nri-hotels said:


> Living in Denial is the same as Blind Optimism.
> 
> Under current investment and living conditions, Dubai will become another white elephant in the making. The rulers should seriously consider absorbing and implementing liberal incentives, like citizenship (not just residency) for foreign investors, and casino business (i*f Lebanon and Malaysia can allow why cant Dubai ?*)
> 
> One cant have your cake and eat it forever.


^^ Two wrongs don't make a right! 

On the contrary they need to clean up Dubai from alcohol and prostitution. 
Making it a family place will boost property value, not making it a sin city.


----------



## nri-hotels

For example, Singapore govt was, for over 25 years, denying market demands for establishing casinos, while its muslim neighbour Malaysia set up Genting casino in the early 80s, and made it a successful venture. Only recently did Singapore decide to allow casino operations, albeit too late due to global crisis. Taiwan too have now allowed casinos to set up shop there.

I do not see why Dubai cannot continue to evolve into a "liberal oasis in midst of a fundamental desert" :dunno:



gerald.d said:


> Couldn't agree with you more. I reckon opening up to gaming is just about the only thing that could prevent a decline in property values by at least 50% from their current levels by the end of 2009.


----------



## gerald.d

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Two wrongs don't make a right!
> 
> On the contrary they need to clean up Dubai from alcohol and prostitution.
> Making it a family place will boost property value, not making it a sin city.


I'm sure that would do wonders for the property market.


----------



## nri-hotels

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Two wrongs don't make a right!
> 
> On the contrary they need to clean up Dubai from alcohol and prostitution.
> Making it a family place will boost property value, not making it a sin city.


Then Dubai would be no different from its neighbours. Why would anybody invest then ?


----------



## hot4dubai

gerald.d said:


> Couldn't agree with you more. I reckon opening up to gaming is just about the only thing that could prevent a decline in property values by at least 50% from their current levels by the end of 2009.


why do you think prices would drop by 50% in Dubai. Facts please.


----------



## smussuw

Who said anything about wanting Dubai to be different? We are as stubborn, conservative and fundamentalist as our neighbors, and proud to be so !


----------



## bizzybonita

(nri_hotel)

Then Dubai would be no different from its neighbours. Why would anybody invest then ?

he wanna to say Dubai is free modern city with restrict of family place behavior and acorrding to geographic place an Islamic city at the end !


----------



## gerald.d

IISinbadII said:


> *Rera chief executive says rent caps are not needed 'in a tough year'*
> 
> <snip>


Just out of interest, how will this actually translate into reality?

Couple of scenarios -

(1) Property rented within the last year, due to come up for "negotiation" with the landlord. Presumably the landlord could charge what he wants, but market conditions probably dictate that it won't make much difference (financially) to the tenant - in all likelihood, the market rent is back down to what it was for the initial contract.

(2) Property rented 3 or so years ago, and has been subject to several annual rent camps. Presumably the landlord could now charge what he wants - and market conditions almost certainly dictate that it will make a HUGE difference (financially) to the tenant - in all likelihood, the market rent will be substantially higher (don't know the details, but I'm guessing it could be 50>100% higher) than was paid in the previous year.

I'd very much welcome people's views on this.


----------



## gerald.d

hot4dubai said:


> why do you think prices would drop by 50% in Dubai. Facts please.


There are no facts when making predictions about the future, only opinions.


----------



## MrCricket

Smmsuww-suggest you to search for the term 'Dubai Nights' on youtube.

Dubai is no way close to its neighbors.Nor did it ever try to in the last 30 yrs.


----------



## gerald.d

smussuw said:


> Who said anything about wanting Dubai to be different? We are as stubborn, conservative and fundamentalist as our neighbors, and proud to be so !





bizzybonita said:


> (nri_hotel)
> 
> Then Dubai would be no different from its neighbours. Why would anybody invest then ?
> 
> he wanna to say Dubai is free modern city with restrict of family place behavior and acorrding to geographic place an Islamic city at the end !


Both. Many people respect those views.

The problem is, the economic future of the Emirate of Dubai cannot be sustained if it is run according to strict Islamic principles. Your leaders have set out their vision for the future, and it's not what you are wishing for.


----------



## MrCricket

^^I was paying interest for the amount which has already been paid to Sports city till last month.

Now they said you can pay the accumulated interest at the time of hand over.

I wanted to know will they charge me interest over interest?


----------



## bizzybonita

^^ Did you heard about any broken of big companies like in EURO , USA ?? if not so Alhmdellah " Thanks god " we are in safe side ....I wanna to tell you the future is good specially in gulf countries as general nothing to worry about .

So let me get this straight

The whole arabic countries are less damage then other place because simply Most of Muslims are dealing with Islamic financial which is so much better then they other ..

Now on , islamic bond is the only solution to treat the crisis in such good way. 


" Our holy Qura are tellin us all that belive it or not "


----------



## makerian

smussuw said:


> We are as stubborn, conservative and fundamentalist as our neighbors, and proud to be so !


That's laughable given the realities on the ground of free flowing alcohol and prostitute inhabited night clubs. 

So let's assume that by "we" you aren't referring to Dubai, but to yourself and like-minded conservative Emiratis who according to you are the majority in the emirate. Your problems with foreigners must be really tame compared with your frustration about the above mentioned realities. My sympathies (sincerely). 

On another note, Dubai is not going to have casinos for the foreseeable future. It shouldn't. For those who suggest this as a way of lifting the market, my sympathies to you as well (not very sincerely).


----------



## bizzybonita

And please let me make it so clear to those poeples how don't know about islam as religion we have everything good from economic till art n our arabic language n islamic bonds ...  we are the future for whole world in peace for sure not so devil like how's killing peoples in Gaza or like stupid man who's killing the economics of the world ...


----------



## peacesells

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Two wrongs don't make a right!
> 
> On the contrary they need to clean up Dubai from alcohol and prostitution.
> Making it a family place will boost property value, not making it a sin city.


Clearly you've never lived in place where those two are an actual problem.


----------



## bizzybonita

makerian said:


> That's laughable given the realities on the ground of free flowing alcohol and prostitute inhabited night clubs.
> 
> So let's assume that by "we" you aren't referring to Dubai, but to yourself and like-minded conservative Emiratis who according to you are the majority in the emirate. Your problems with foreigners must be really tame compared with your frustration about the above mentioned realities. My sympathies (sincerely).
> 
> On another note, Dubai is not going to have casinos for the foreseeable future. It shouldn't. For those who suggest this as a way of lifting the market, my sympathies to you as well (not very sincerely).


alcohol n prostitute in our vision lead to / cause of *crime* ... for example you could ask anyone if there is any criminals in UAE or gulf area like western countries ?

Security and safety here are so much better then any area in the world ! n that's is the point for economics success as 1st concern here ... 


"Elso this in our holy Quren belive it or not "


----------



## nri-hotels

Are you saying that other Muslim countries are less pure than Gulf ones, because they dont embrace fundamentalism ? I dont mind if Dubai or UAE wants to be fundamental.. just dont pretend to the world that you are free and inviting then. All i am calling for is some transparency and sincerity when inviting investments from foreigners. 

Looks like we are all flogging a dead horse. Time to move on. I remember somebody talking about oil price ranging in the mid 30s :lol:




bizzybonita said:


> OFF TOPIC
> 
> But the original locals they don't be like such western way of life they don't like anyone came from far way country to invest & bring hes/her way of living with them and forget about the Islamic nation here ...there is so much different to make balance in that .
> 
> 
> Most of them believes " Gulf area should be an Example o*f the conservative Islamic not like other Muslims country* because the spread of Islam was from there, from what i saw that is different between gulf muslims n they others .
> 
> in other hand responsibility toward culture in gulf area is soooo restricted .


----------



## smussuw

peacesells said:


> Nationals get excellent benefits that the government pays for (e.g. education, job opportunities, housing, water/electricity etc) and will continue to do so as long as the government makes money. Government making money depends on economy, taxes, ooops sorry, I meant fees collected, and performance of government-owned entities and so long as there's new business and new jobs created, the wheels will spin.


Benefits like the roads we cannot use because they are always busy, or the free health care in hospitals that are already over packed? Or is it the free interest loans that cannot buy studio in discovery gardens that is smaller than my current room because of the inflation they caused or the free plots of land we can barely get because we don't have land anymore. We cannot enjoy those incentives anymore because of this boom.



peacesells said:


> The 40% of government budget spent on infrastructure is first and foremost a step towards stimulating the LOCAL economy, that will in turn (see post above) benefit, first and foremost, the LOCALS.


Stimulating the local economy which benefited the Emirati businessmen and the expatriate community the most. The average Emirati are the least ones who benefited from this boom.


----------



## peacesells

smussuw said:


> Benefits like the roads we cannot use because they are always busy, or the free health care in hospitals that are already over packed? Or is it the free interest loans that cannot buy studio in discovery gardens that is smaller than my current room because of the inflation they caused or the free plots of land we can barely get because we don't have land anymore. We cannot enjoy those incentives anymore because of this boom.


Oh you poor thing. You're right, being an Emirati is all hardship and pain. My apologies. :hug:


----------



## dbxdude

*did someone say casinos*

casinos - that would be great. I would love it. On the down side stocks and property might suffer as there would be a more direct way of gambling. If you want open casinos where by you have to be a member that way you can exclude people based on origin and faith - i know Seychelles do this to prevent thewir local population being corrupted. Think of the tourism. Oh and while there at it cancell every other project apart from the theme park in dubailand, Dubailand will pack in all the tourists. 

Im sure casinos have been considered. I would welcome them. On the downside it might galvanise radicals to cause trouble... ie terrorists but they dont seem to mind all the US army bases so why not? 

Anyone who doesn't like, doesn't have to go, put it in the desert.


----------



## Freestyler

peacesells said:


> Nationals get excellent benefits that the government pays for (e.g. education, job opportunities, housing, water/electricity etc) and will continue to do so as long as the government makes money. Government making money depends on economy, taxes, ooops sorry, I meant fees collected, and performance of government-owned entities and so long as there's new business and new jobs created, the wheels will spin.


Not really. Average nationals did not get all those benefits except water. And inflation that came with the construction boom made it all worse. There are nationals who can't even get a decent medical care. For people with wasta it works, and that includes non-nationals too. And many expats who are working here for long time doesn't seem to be happy either, they believe Dubai lost its soul.


----------



## smussuw

peacesells said:


> Oh you poor thing. You're right, being an Emirati is all hardship and pain. My apologies. :hug:


Bottom line is that this boom didn't participate in the development and welfare of the average Emirati and made their life worse, full stop !


----------



## dbxdude

smussuw said:


> The average Emirati are the least ones who benefited from this boom.


Only the ones who didn't listen to the leadership when they specifically told them to welcome foreign investment in property and warned them to buy at the start. I remember this..... those who choose to invest in their own country did very well... You can take the camel to the water..... but you cant make it drink as the saying goes. No other country ever gave their population to make such a massive amount of money...


----------



## peacesells

Freestyler said:


> Not really. Average nationals did not get all those benefits except water.


Where are you getting this info from? My best friend is a UAE national (he's actually half-Emirati) and he got all of those benefits and more.


----------



## peacesells

smussuw said:


> Bottom line is that this boom didn't participate in the development and welfare of the average Emirati and made their life worse, full stop !


I disagree. It's really your anectodal evidence and theories vs. mine. Show me statistics.


----------



## smussuw

^^ What statistics do u want? There isn't probably any but I've provided many visible indication that proves my point, what indication disprove what I said?


----------



## peacesells

smussuw said:


> ^^ What statistics do u want? There isn't probably any but I've provided many visible indication that proves my point, what indication disprove what I said?


There's no point continuing this unless you show me some statistics supporting your views (about locals not benefiting from the boom etc etc). I'm not really bothered in proving I'm right or wrong either way, so if you are, please do some research and get back to me.


----------



## Freestyler

peacesells said:


> Where are you getting this info from? My best friend is a UAE national (he's actually half-Emirati) and he got all of those benefits and more.


I'm half-Emarati, I didn't get all those benefits. But if you do social work you will find many Emarati who can't even get a decent medical.


----------



## smussuw

^^ To be fair though, that isn't true. Many Emiratis do not get proper housing but every Emirati have access to decent medical treatment.



peacesells said:


> There's no point continuing this unless you show me some statistics supporting your views (about locals not benefiting from the boom etc etc). I'm not really bothered in proving I'm right or wrong either way, so if you are, please do some research and get back to me.


This is a forum discussing different views based on our understanding. I provided many qualitative indication to try to prove that my analysis is valid. Am not here to conduct a research based on statistical analysis to prove my point. If you disagrees then fine, but asking for statistics that do not exist doesn't make sense.


----------



## dbxdude

good to know they aren't all at Starbucks looking out the window at their F430. 

Seriously though, no one owes any body a living, got to go look for it. Like people in the UK thinking Gordon Brown owes them a living and instead he is spending all the money on polish immigrants... rubbish, got to get of your backsides and make the most of the opportunities you have!


----------



## smussuw

dbxdude said:


> Only the ones who didn't listen to the leadership when they specifically told them to welcome foreign investment in property and warned them to buy at the start. I remember this..... those who choose to invest in their own country did very well... You can take the camel to the water..... but you cant make it drink as the saying goes. No other country ever gave their population to make such a massive amount of money...


I don't know how this this make sense because in a normal society there is a variety in human capabilities and intelligence. So u are saying that every Emirati should have turned into a businessman because of the boom? Fine, but this is like throwing us in the sea without teaching us how to swim.


----------



## peacesells

smussuw said:


> This is a forum discussing different views based on our understanding. I provided many qualitative indication to try to prove that my analysis is valid. Am not here to conduct a research based on statistical analysis to prove my point. If you disagrees then fine, but asking for statistics that do not exist doesn't make sense.


Qualitative indication = opinion. You have yours, I have mine. If you wish to change my opinion to align with yours or other way around, objective evidence or statistics are required. Otherwise, it will go nowhere. If you're fine with that, then I'm fine with that too.


----------



## sam69

*Rent Cap*

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10274811.html

Don't quite understand this report. Does it mean the 5% from 2008 continues,
or does it mean landlords can now put prices up as high as they wish?

Can anyone shed any light?

Thanks


----------



## peacesells

sam69 said:


> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10274811.html
> 
> Don't quite understand this report. Does it mean the 5% from 2008 continues,
> or does it mean landlords can now put prices up as high as they wish?
> 
> Can anyone shed any light?
> 
> Thanks


It means there's no cap yet and we don't know when it will be announced or if it will be announced at all.


----------



## gerald.d

As mentioned earlier, 2 weeks prior to the below post was December 28th.

GBP:AED on December 28th: 5.3854
GBP:AED as of right now: 5.3896
GBP:AED as of 17:30 UAE time: 5.347. Hang on everyone. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

I wish you the best with the sale of your villa.



Goss said:


> When I was in Dubai 2 weeks ago the pound reached a low of 5.1 Dirhams to the pound.Today the pound reached 5.7 Dirhams-an increase of 10% in the last 2 weeks.The Dirham is linked to the dollar if I am not mistaken.
> How do I know these facts:I was just about to sell my Palm Jumeirah Villa and transfer back to Uk.Today I pulled out because didnt want to lose the 10%.I will now wait for prices to go up which im sure will if the pound gets stronger.
> Dont be so negative Gerald-you dont know what is going to happen-just like everybody else


----------



## FWIW

Financial Storm engulfs Property
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090112/BUSINESS/530423428/1137

Housing allowances cut
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090112/BUSINESS/616042961/1005

Colliers International Q4 House Price Index for Dubai shows average 8% price fall
http://www.ameinfo.com/180946.html


----------



## IISinbadII

sam69 said:


> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10274811.html
> 
> Don't quite understand this report. Does it mean the 5% from 2008 continues,
> or does it mean landlords can now put prices up as high as they wish?
> 
> Can anyone shed any light?
> 
> Thanks


As per Law # 26:

Article (9)

Landlord and tenant mush specify rent value in the tenancy contract, and *should not increase such rent value* or amend any of tenancy contract conditions *until the elapse of two years* from date of inception of the original tenancy relationship.

Article (10)

The Agency shall have the exclusive authority to specify percentage of rent increase in the Emirate, with regard to of economic circumstances.

--------
So my understanding is that if (as per Article 10) they have not specified a % of rent increase for 2009 it would mean that if you have not increased the rent last year, you can increase the rent this year as much as you wish. But if you have, you can't. Since the 2 year no rent increase rule (as per Article 9) is still in place. 

I think things would be clarified by RERA soon.


----------



## gerald.d

IISinbadII said:


> As per Law # 26:
> 
> Article (9)
> 
> Landlord and tenant mush specify rent value in the tenancy contract, and *should not increase such rent value* or amend any of tenancy contract conditions *until the elapse of two years* from date of inception of the original tenancy relationship.
> 
> Article (10)
> 
> The Agency shall have the exclusive authority to specify percentage of rent increase in the Emirate, with regard to of economic circumstances.
> 
> --------
> So my understanding is that if (as per Article 10) they have not specified a % of rent increase for 2009 it would mean that if you have not increased the rent last year, you can increase the rent this year as much as you wish. But if you have, you can't. Since the 2 year no rent increase rule (as per Article 9) is still in place.
> 
> I think things would be clarified by RERA soon.


That's really helpful Sinbad - many thanks.


----------



## TDemirel

FWIW said:


> Financial Storm engulfs Property
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090112/BUSINESS/530423428/1137
> 
> Housing allowances cut
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090112/BUSINESS/616042961/1005
> 
> Colliers International Q4 House Price Index for Dubai shows average 8% price fall
> http://www.ameinfo.com/180946.html


All in all, it is very bad news.
Let's see how it goes, but it looks like the things will go only worst.
Today, I was reading in news paper about, abandoned cars in Airport, belonging to people leaving the country.
Later Gerard.D has added abandoned villas and even maids.
I had enough bad news for today.


----------



## houshang

smussuw said:


> I don't know how this this make sense because in a normal society there is a variety in human capabilities and intelligence. So u are saying that every Emirati should have turned into a businessman because of the boom? Fine, but this is like throwing us in the sea without teaching us how to swim.


smussuw
When there is will there is a way


----------



## amplesou

*issues!*



Peter Pan in Dubai said:


> Dear MrCricket,
> 
> I have sent a mail to Miss Sabeena Yousuf, the person in charge of CRW at Dubai Bank. her email is [email protected]
> You (and all the CRW owners on this forum) may want to drop her an email asking to review your payment plan (construction linked), seek interest compensation & inquire about this 2% registration fee.
> The more we are to communicate with Dubai Bank & DSC the stronger our voice reaches.
> Let me know how it goes...


 thanks for your efforts i don,t know if you have recieved my private message to you the other day?
I have e-mailed sabeena with my issues i.e. 2% real estae charges and having paid 60 % already but no flat just more waiting !!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The cost of renting apartments in Dubai and Abu Dhabi is levelling off in what is seen as a general slowing of rental increases, according to a new report.

The cost of renting a one-bed apartment in Dubai did not rise at all during the last three months of 2008, according to the latest quarterly report from property services firm Asteco.

And in Abu Dhabi, rents for units with two or three bedrooms also levelled off with analysts expecting a period of rent stability in 2009 after rapid increases in the last few years.

'Certainly for the next three to nine months I don't think there will be anything that will cause a move back to rapid inflation,' said Andrew Chambers, the managing director of Asteco.

Average annual rent for studios, and apartments with one, two and three bedrooms in Dubai were 80,000, 123,000, 165,000 and 243,000 dirhams respectively. But in the villa sector cost are continuing to rise with an 8% increase in the average rents for villas in Dubai between the third and fourth quarters of last year. 

The report is published just days after Rera, Dubai's property market regulator, said a rental index would soon be released and to provide price bands for various types of property in different areas of the city with minimum and maximum prices. 

But the introduction of a rental index in Dubai will have no effect on curbing the spiralling cost of rents, according to new survey. Almost 45% of those questioned in the poll for Arabian Business said that the rental index would fail to reign in unscrupulous landlords because the regulator will have no powers to enforce it.

The index, which has been drawn up by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency, is awaiting approval by the Dubai government and is set to be released at the end of this week.

The poll also showed that around 39% believe that the index will stop one-off extortionate rent hikes, but would have little impact on overall rises, while 11% thought the move would improve the overall situation as tenants would have more power to challenge unfair hikes. However, only 5% think it will solve all rental problems.

http://www.propertywire.com/news/mi...s-falling-stabilising-dubai-200901122383.html


----------



## Imre

GN:

*Need for low-cost housing set to grow *


Dubai: The need for low-cost housing will be more urgent in 2009, experts say.

With 32,000 units set to hit Dubai's market this year, on top of the 27,000 units that came on in 2008, the key issue is to make sure people are able to buy them.

Around 80,000 apartments and 8,000 villas are due to be released between 2009 and 2010, according to Ronald Hinchey, resident partner at property firm Cluttons.

There is a huge latent demand waiting in the wings, said Hinchey. As soon as prices bottom out, buyers will jump right in.

"Affordability of selling prices and rentals need to be addressed. I hope rentals drop to half of what they were. When it's affordable, we can see a future," Hinchey said at the Dubai Property Society monthly meeting yesterday. 

The light at the end of the tunnel is now clearly visible, in terms of both buying and renting.

House prices dropped eight per cent in the three months between October and December 2008, according to Colliers International.

The hope is, they will drop further.

As for rents, while rental rates are falling, it is also possible, perhaps more than ever, to pay in more than one cheque - a clear sign of a more confident and flexible market.

*It is now possible to buy a villa in the Springs for Dh1 million and a villa in Arabian Ranches for Dh1.2 million. These sort of prices in these areas would have been in the realm of fantasy a year ago.*

The two problems in Dubai's market right now are a lack of mortgage availability and a lack of confidence.

Banks and lending institutions have tightened their loans to value ratios over the past couple of months, so along with high prices, it is currently very hard for genuine end-users to get on the property ladder.

However, liquidity is available in the local banks, they are just being cautious, Hinchey added.

"These Gulf states have massive cash reserves. We've got that advantage where the rest of the world almost hasn't," Hinchey said.

Western governments have had to raise money to pump in to the economy, which is deficit financing, said Blair Hagkull, managing director Middle East, Jones Lang LaSalle. "This leads to massive inflation. Banana Republics do that. Governments here don't need to do that and that's the major difference," Hagkull said.

32,000 units set to hit Dubai this year 
80,000 apartments to enter market in two years 
8,000 villas to be added to the market in two years 
8% recent fall in house prices


----------



## Richard Head

Imre said:


> GN:
> 
> 
> *It is now possible to buy a villa in the Springs for Dh1 million and a villa in Arabian Ranches for Dh1.2 million. These sort of prices in these areas would have been in the realm of fantasy a year ago.*
> 
> Except - it isn't. Where the hell do they get these numbers from???????


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Cheapest Arabian Ranches Villa I can find is 2.2m (2 bed, 1889 sqft), where can you buy for 1.2m?


----------



## Freestyler

smussuw said:


> every Emirati have access to decent medical treatment.


Do you remember the news few months back about old Emirati guy who couldn't get the surgery he needed for years?


----------



## Freestyler

Dubai_Steve said:


> Cheapest Arabian Ranches Villa I can find is 2.2m (2 bed, 1889 sqft), where can you buy for 1.2m?


I want to know too. Where these news are coming from?


----------



## Imre

Freestyler said:


> I want to know too. Where these news are coming from?


By Suzanne Fenton Staff Reporter

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10274748.html


----------



## Richard Head

^^ Welcome to Cuckoo-land Suzanne. More well researched journalism :bash:


----------



## Imre

Region: Dubai (Almas Tower JLT) 

Description: 
Almas Tower
Jumeirah Lake Towers

20th Floor

Ready Office Space
2000 SqFt
SP AED 3,500,000

I thought that is just for rent...


----------



## peacesells

We had a guy asking 1.3 million for type 4m in Springs the other week. Apparently he was really desperate etc. Not sure about a million though. Personally, I feel those things should cost no more than 800k. I mean, they cost something like 300k to build!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The true value of a property is not the cost of the bricks, cement and labour but related to how much it will rent for.


----------



## peacesells

Dubai_Steve said:


> The true value of a property is not the cost of the bricks, cement and labour but related to how much it will rent for.


Yes I know that, I'm just sayin'... I personally wouldn't pay anything more than 80k per annum for that, so that times 10 is 800k. It's a personal opinion, nothing to do with the reality of the situation.


----------



## dbxdude

We have now reached the Boom of DOOM, its the exact opposite of the Boom. This is it folks, its the bottom. At last......... thank god.


----------



## MrCricket

^^ Dubai Steve.
so rental yields should be the factor which should define the price of a property.

As per you the crap apartments in old dubai where a 1 bed is rented for 120k is of more value than the 1 bed in greens.jlt or marina where normally the rent is about 100 to 110k..


----------



## Imre

USD going up again

EUR-USD 1.3193 ,-0.0169, -1.27% 
USD-JPY 89.4780, 0.2635, 0.30% 
GBP-USD 1.4530, -0.0291, -1.97%


----------



## dbxdude

smussuw said:


> Bottom line is that this boom didn't participate in the development and welfare of the average Emirati and made their life worse, full stop !


I think you have an amazing city. The vision has been amazing. Regarless of property booms and busts. Look at the Burj Dubai, who would have thought a fishing village that was dubai 30-40 years ago could build that. Look at the Palm. Loot at the Burj Alarab, look at emirates airlines, Atlatis, emirates towers, Jebil Ali. Gee give the leadership some credit. Go you Aman, Yemen to see how it could have gone for you. That place was booming in the 60s.
Id be proud if i was you.


----------



## Northstar

^^ Excellent post. a refreshing perspective.


----------



## legal eagle

dbxdude said:


> Completed properties in prime areas will come back first and quickes. Developements that were crap from day 1 will be crap always. If you need a barometer for Dubais recovery watch PJ Villas and Shorelines.



Obviously no-one is going to call the bottom of the market spot on, but when everyone is singing it en masse- you'll be too late.

I think we are sitting in a very broad u-shape bottom at the moment, but we are basically there on completed property.

Scour the markets and you can see ready 15 per cent yields on some distressed sales... the market is getting very attractive to cash buyers and there are just a couple of sparks needed to bring them back in.
*
interbank sorted and main developer(s) cashed up again*

Dubai is in its infancy and you are underestimating what it has done and is capable of too.

It already brought us all here to a desert in spitting distance to Iran in a turbulent epoch for the area- it knows how to create attractive offerings and to sell!

It only takes a clever manouvre to encourage an influx of proffessionals and demand is back on the up- and they have been masters at cooking these types of programmes up.

Not worried at all :lol:


----------



## dbxdude

Its at the bottom or near enough. It doesnt have anymore room to fall further. people who think villas will return to 2m on PJ are in lala land. The same people who missed out the first time are going to miss out the second time round. 

Traditionaly if you take the rental yeild and devide the price by that and the figure is less then 15 its attractive in normal circumstances, now you can get the figure in dubai down to 8 easily. In the uk its still at around 15 in many places. They have much further to fall.


----------



## dbxdude

its already more expensive to rent then to buy. the only component missing is the finance and job confidence that will return, maybe after summer?


----------



## Mistermark

MrCricket said:


> ^^ Dubai Steve.
> so rental yields should be the factor which should define the price of a property.


Indeed. Likewise dividends and the price of shares, free cashflows and the price of a business. It's called fundamental value. Once this gets ignored we end up with a bubble, or what Alan Greenspan called 'irrational exuberance'.

Even if Dubai yields come down slightly, which they may be doing, I still think most completed property there is fundamentally undervalued when the rental yield is compared to the cost of capital.

The 'bubble' was greedy developers selling off-plan (which has zero yield) for more than completed units and speculators buying those properties in the hopes of selling them on for even higher prices long before occupation. Small wonder there's now a correction. I'm just anxious that it doesn't get over-reflected in the values of completed units with real yields.


----------



## dbxdude

it probably will get over reflected if it isnt already, but if you have the yeild or arent forced to liquidate what matter about current market prices? Developers were greedy and some were plain and simple con jobs. Thats what it takes, sadly, for a market to mature.


----------



## dbxdude

smussuw said:


> ^^ but in contrary they didn't say how many _new_ visas are issued. If the accumulated result is negative then i'll go and celebrate


why not move to UMQ, its what dubai would be like without western influence and investment. :banana:


----------



## MrCricket

^^Many on this forum do agree to the point that present rents are not justified.

springs 2bed ->150+
1bed in marina or jlt -> 120+

We cannot deny the fact Government took its own sweet time for delivering the units in JBR,INTL CITY,DG and so on just to make the real estate investment look very attractive to ones who were thinking to invest.

Give it 2 yrs and see the rents.It will be more realistic.


----------



## legal eagle

*agreed*



dbxdude said:


> its already more expensive to rent then to buy. the only component missing is the finance and job confidence that will return, maybe after summer?


Lets be honest most of us are going to miss it (the bottom of the market)... its just how it goes.

Consolation is that perhaps you did not have the money spare anyway so you were just a casual observer. 

Its always important to remind yourself you didn't have the cash at the time! stops you kicking yourself for nothing 

If you zoom out on Dubai a bit, at the bigger picture.... this is going to be a brilliant time for the long term future believe it or not.

Efficiency is being forced into everything! 
*the cost of living is being challenged, *
accomodation is going to have to meet consumer demands, 
*sh*t developers are being cast off, *
Smussuw now has a chance to become the business man- we rarely get a second chance and this is it smussuw- so no complaining if you decide not to make hay.
*The consumer is going to be listened to in all sorts of areas as real demand forces its way through- not only in terms of property, but in social affairs too as Dubai works to attract us all again*
the list goes on and on as to why this purge will end up being good in the long run...

And finally Dubai is desirable don;t forget that... its communication links are unbeatable- I can get almost anywhere in the world fast- 

It is an off shore tax haven with a difference- *it is modern*, and therefore it is quite feasible to have larger operations out here rather then a one desk rep office, as some tropical islands tend to attract.


----------



## Goss

smussuw said:


> ^^ so 1500 * 365 = 547,500 going out the country?
> 
> Do u actually believe that parties were allowed against his highness will? :laugh: :rofl: It was all his decision. If he wanted indoor parties to be canceled they will be and anyone who doesn't obey will go to jail. The decision was to cancel all visible parties, not indoor parties.
> 
> Which was the same before the boom !
> 
> Beside electricity is also subsidized for Expatriates but with a different rate.


Everyone is leaving.Yes it is bad.Just think when everyone has finally gone home you will have to pay for your own Electricity

BTW everyone had outdoor parties at the Palm Villas


----------



## abf

smussuw said:


> ^^ The majority of the Emiratis don't drink so why allow something for the sake of others? Would u allow forced marriage (not that it is acceptable here anyway) or polygamy in ur countries?
> 
> Water and sewage is free, electricity is subsidized !


it seems like you are all for forced marriages and polygamy!


----------



## Freestyler

dbxdude said:


> Look at the Burj Dubai, who would have thought a fishing village that was dubai 30-40 years ago could build that.


prophet (pbuh) 1,400 years ago.


----------



## IISinbadII

dbxdude said:


> Its at the bottom or near enough. It doesnt have anymore room to fall further. people who think villas will return to 2m on PJ are in lala land. The same people who missed out the first time are going to miss out the second time round.
> 
> Traditionaly if you take the rental yeild and devide the price by that and the figure is less then 15 its attractive in normal circumstances, now you can get the figure in dubai down to 8 easily. In the uk its still at around 15 in many places. They have much further to fall.


IMO, market will be dictated by the following factors:

-*EXTERNAL*: We need to see some signs of global financial recovery. Unless we see that, it would be difficult for Dubai market to pick-up.

-*INTERNAL*: Things would be dictated by the _Supply & Demand equilibrium_.

1-On the Supply side, many projects would be delayed or never completed. This would reduce supply and benefit completed property value and rental yields.

2-On the Demand side, it would depend on how many people get laid off in the financial, construction, hospitality and real estate sectors. Less demand means lower prices and rents.


----------



## gerald.d

IISinbadII said:


> 2-On the Demand side, it would depend on how many people get laid off in the financial, construction, hospitality and real estate sectors. Less demand means lower prices and rents.


And right on cue...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0e3cd252-e224-11dd-b1dd-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1



> Dubai’s recent surging population growth will reverse over the next two years as the troubled, but important, real estate and construction sectors cause the number of immigrants to slow and many expatriates to leave, a report said on Wednesday.
> 
> Over half of Dubai’s population is employed in the the real estate and construction industries, which are suffering from oversupply and a dearth of financing. Property prices fell 8 per cent in the fourth quarter, according to a report released on Tuesday.
> 
> *This will shrink the number of residents in Dubai by 8 per cent in 2009* and 2 per cent in 2010, according to calculations by UBS, the Swiss bank, released on Wednesday. Over 90 per cent of Dubai’s populace are expatriates.


----------



## dbxdude

Freestyler said:


> prophet (pbuh) 1,400 years ago.


Indeed. What comes next then?


----------



## dbxdude

gerald.d said:


> And right on cue...
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0e3cd252-e224-11dd-b1dd-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1


If you followed the advise of the FT you would have bought JP Morgan Stock and every other finance stock in Jan of 08 because we were through the worst...... Economist and CNBC also made those preditions - based on researcher.

Predictions made can also be called guesses. The FT's guess is as good as mine or yours. Numbers from the sky. 

How about this: Financial Institutions, shaken by crippling losses exploit lower cost of business in tax free locations with lower living costs and less regulation then then London. By 2010 over 50% of financial institutions with head offices in london have shifted the moajority of their operation to the middle east. Employing over 'pick a number here' DIFC is now ranked alongside Tokyo, NYSE and London as the fouth largest finance center of the world (it could happen). 

Or 

Due to a war between xxxx and xxxx, over 'pick a number' business and 'pick anumber' people relocated to dubai in mid 09

Or

Etc etc etc


----------



## dbxdude

also doesn't mean they r wrong i guess. 

Anyone remember the same swiss banks talking about a mild correction of 10% or so over a year. :nuts::lol::nuts::lol:


----------



## Richard Head

^^ Indeed, if you throw enough guesses out there you will eventually hit something spot on. Shotgun or Nostradamus principle. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.


----------



## NajamD

MrCricket said:


> ^^your statement is completely in contrary to Highness vision.
> 
> (Keep building they will come).


There is distinct lack of leadership and direction from His Highness at the moment and this is in contrast to a man of his vision. Seriously, it is time that He came out of his palace and did something to ameliorate the plight of Dubai and its residents. There are 3 important steps which are long overdue:

1. Re-instatement of resident visa with buying of property

2. Availability of liquidity in the Banks to kick-start the mortgage market

3. Lowering of interest rates which are still sky high in Dubai. Its diabolical that whereas interest rates are heading south in the rest of the world specially Europe and America, UAE rates remain unreasonably high as if they had no care in the world.

Sh. Mo has to do something and the time to do it is about NOW!


----------



## worried1

*These bulidings are for ssumuw*



nri-hotels said:


> I have to agree with you that. Basically the ill decided surge in construction has created a massive imbalance between supply and real demand in Dubai, and until that equalizes, we wont see many happy faces for a while yet. On my recent trip there I couldnt believe seeing so many existing buildings, on going and new construction, probably much more than is in a similar sized country like Singapore, yet with a population less than half. Who are they building these for i wonder ?


These buildings are for ssumuw to look at while they rot away.:bash:


----------



## peacesells

dbxdude said:


> I beg to differ my with stage 2 and 3


Both stages are already happening. Sorry.


----------



## NajamD

dbxdude said:


> Indeed. What comes next then?


JUDGEMENT DAY!!!!!!hno:


----------



## peacesells

NajamD said:


> There is distinct lack of leadership and direction from His Highness at the moment and this is in contrast to a man of his vision. Seriously, it is time that He came out of his palace and did something to ameliorate the plight of Dubai and its residents. There are 3 important steps which are long overdue:
> 
> 1. Re-instatement of resident visa with buying of property
> 
> 2. Availability of liquidity in the Banks to kick-start the mortgage market
> 
> 3. Lowering of interest rates which are still sky high in Dubai. Its diabolical that whereas interest rates are heading south in the rest of the world specially Europe and America, UAE rates remain unreasonably high as if they had no care in the world.
> 
> Sh. Mo has to do something and the time to do it is about NOW!


I'm pretty sure they're working on something at the moment and considering the situation, it should be no surprise that it has taken this long (so far). Being all bold and visionary and calling the shots is easy when you've got a rising oil price and hotels that can't book rooms fast enough.


----------



## worried1

*Majority of emiratis do drink*



smussuw said:


> ^^ The majority of the Emiratis don't drink so why allow something for the sake of others? Would u allow forced marriage (not that it is acceptable here anyway) or polygamy in ur countries?
> 
> 
> 
> Water and sewage is free, electricity is subsidized !



A soon as the flight takes of from Dubai, Emiratis drink and we find them at the various pubs in London, so they do drink like fishes:cheers:


----------



## desertmaster

dbxdude said:


> Its at the bottom or near enough. It doesnt have anymore room to fall further. people who think villas will return to 2m on PJ are in lala land. The same people who missed out the first time are going to miss out the second time round.
> 
> Traditionaly if you take the rental yeild and devide the price by that and the figure is less then 15 its attractive in normal circumstances, now you can get the figure in dubai down to 8 easily. In the uk its still at around 15 in many places. They have much further to fall.


IMHO a stable rental yield is between 3 to 5 percent which is applicable to most mature markets. now if the rental yield is more, then the property is underpriced and if the rental yield is less then the property is overpriced. In dubai we have seen artificial shortages created to increase rent and so the price of the property was also artifically pushed up.

rents can be paid if there are jobs that support that kinda payments. jobs depend on 100's of more factors like govt policies on buisness and world economic situation ...etc etc 

So my bottom line is that Rents and VAlue of property always go in parity and if any one factor moves v fast then its being stretched.


----------



## peacesells

worried1 said:


> A soon as the flight takes of from Dubai, Emiratis drink and we find them at the various pubs in London, so they do drink like fishes:cheers:


My Emirati friend can't remember most of the New Year's night, just like the rest of us. :cheers:


----------



## NajamD

peacesells said:


> My Emirati friend can't remember most of the New Year's night, just like the rest of us. :cheers:


Most locals are important part of every "party" I have been to and they drink like there's no tomorrow!!!:lol:


----------



## worried1

*Return our money and you can celeberate*



smussuw said:


> ^^ but in contrary they didn't say how many _new_ visas are issued. If the accumulated result is negative then i'll go and celebrate


If Dubai just returns our money, I guarantee the results will be hugely negative and you can really celebrate with camel piss.:cheers:


----------



## smussuw

peacesells said:


> My Emirati friend can't remember most of the New Year's night, just like the rest of us. :cheers:


As the idiom say "Birds of a feather flock together". 

You don't want to know what the Emirati pubic opinion about the ones who drink :laugh:


----------



## i love dubai

Dear Smussuw
you forgot to put L in the word public and the result is a totally differnt word:lol:


smussuw said:


> As the idiom say "Birds of a feather flock together".
> 
> You don't want to know what the Emirati *pubic* opinion about the ones who drink :laugh:


----------



## smussuw

:shifty:


----------



## Richard Head

smussuw said:


> As the idiom say "Birds of a feather flock together".
> 
> You don't want to know what the Emirati pubic opinion about the ones who drink :laugh:


So Smussuw, can you tell us hand on heart that alcohol has never passed your lips?


----------



## lovedubai

For goodness' sake, does this matter?!!!!!!


----------



## smussuw

Richard Head said:


> So Smussuw, can you tell us hand on heart that alcohol has never passed your lips?


It never had, whats the big deal? :laugh: 

I don't think any Emirati forumer here ever tasted it too.

No one I know ever touched alcohol (there is one who do it in private though thinking that no one knows about him) and most of them are not even religious. The worst thing they might do is go to bars to watch the scenes !


----------



## amplesou

*payments*

Yeah! count me in!



Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzybonita 
I thought you was luck down for good May 3rd, 2012 08:06 PM ... Thread's Playa

You sir (BIZZYBONITA) are appointed to moderate here NOT sit back and mess with, and BULLY members. 



You have done this repeatedly with myself,despite my contribution to the D.Sc. threads and other since 2007..

My contribution to DSc is less because of your single handed ,sick minded bulling attitude imo!

take a look at your pointless tirade against me since the turn of the year below

I have repeatedly asked you and atlind, for your help for improvements to the Mess ,which your lack of "moderation" has led too in the first place on the DSc threads....


I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG TO DESERVE THIS !!!!!! 


Profile Infraction
Reason: Random Post
July 3rd, 2011 06:06 PM by bizzybonita 3 / May 3rd, 2012 06:06 PM

Profile Infraction
Reason: Inappropriate Language
February 7th, 2011 09:28 PM by bizzybonita 1 / Expired

Profile Infraction
Reason: Posting random stuff/opening random threads
February 4th, 2011 02:21 PM by bizzybonita 2 / Never

Profile Warning
Reason: Wrong attitude
February 4th, 2011 02:17 PM by bizzybonita 0 / Expired

Bizzybonita your are one sick human being...


----------



## jacobdxb

any investment related posts recently... oh, sorry, wrong forum...


----------



## worried1

*ssmuw I think you are OK*

I am seeing that you ignore nasty E mails, so I think you do have at least one good quality. Very tough to do, but a good quality inspite of your hate for foriegners.:cheers:OOps you dont drink so:lol:


----------



## legal eagle

*mortgages in Dubai*

I am researching available products and wondered whether its worth putting this to you all.

Can you mortgage anymore in Dubai realistically?

My average rate is around 9% or 10% P.A. on the money borrowed when things like life insurance and capital repayments are included.

Too much to get the market moving by a long way.

All this effort on visas and we really should be campaigning for the banks to drop their rates dramatically.

Not for me alone- but it is how property markets build and get liquid.

Is there any reason (apart from profits to banks) that rates have not come down to the 3 % mark?

Can someone learned explain why the status quo is being allowed?


----------



## Goss

Delete


----------



## gerald.d

Arno Salzl said:


> Article published in Business 24-7
> 
> UAE industrial sectors recovering fast
> 
> By Nissar Hoath on Wednesday, January 14, 2009
> 
> The recession is becoming a thing of the past in the UAE with different sectors of the country's economy, including real estate, fast recovering, a world summit on future capitals was told.
> 
> Taking part in an interactive leadership panel debate at the three-day Future Capitals – World Summit and Awards, which opened in Abu Dhabi yesterday, Abdullatif Al Sayegh, CEO of Arab Media Group, said the recession in the country was locally developed and now has been locally dealt with.
> 
> Al Sayegh, who took part in the panel debate of 12 experts from around the world discussing future capital cities of the world as a challenger, said the recession was challenging question for most of the UAE nationals.
> 
> He told the summit: "This one challenge that we as Emaratis face is that everyone asks if we have recession in the country. Our answer is we believe the recession is over.
> 
> "The real estate has been boom for eight years and there was drop with some developers staying back. But today they are back and starting businesses as normal… We have been driving with the speed of 300 and there it comes to 100 – not bad."


Unbelievable.

For once, I'm lost for words!


----------



## legal eagle

peacesells said:


> While I'm not too familiar with the mechanisms, on the surface it seems that the answer to this is simple - it makes business sense. Until something happens, either through government intervention or due to natural market forces, that makes low interest rates the sensible (profitable) option for the banks, things won't change.



How can the mortgage situation not take up 50 per cent of this debate?

I think.... I mean I really think  low rates are crucial in this market.

I cannot believe this is purely business and the banks are just looting a sinking ship.


Do you realise if they dropped rates it could increase everyone's buying ability by a multiple of 3 or 4?

It is 100% what sustains a market- and its why the FIRST reaction of most major economies in the world downturn was to.... check their fucking rates.

This is not a small variable people, it is outrageous.


----------



## desertmaster

*mortgage*



legal eagle said:


> I am researching available products and wondered whether its worth putting this to you all.
> 
> Can you mortgage anymore in Dubai realistically?
> 
> My average rate is around 9% or 10% P.A. on the money borrowed when things like life insurance and capital repayments are included.
> 
> Too much to get the market moving by a long way.
> 
> All this effort on visas and we really should be campaigning for the banks to drop their rates dramatically.
> 
> Not for me alone- but it is how property markets build and get liquid.
> 
> Is there any reason (apart from profits to banks) that rates have not come down to the 3 % mark?
> 
> Can someone learned explain why the status quo is being allowed?


All Banks combined together cannot finance all of dubai !! the practice of mortgage financing is making a packet (ie issuing finance to the market) for eg of 100 million dhs and then getting it refinanced. It works more like insurance and re insurance. the banks in dubai merely act as brokers. So the rates are decided in accordance to what finance they get and what risks the world percives to finance dubai. it also depends on the rating of the bank here. In short the world does not see dubai as stable so they charge more intrest as risks are more and we end users end up paying more.


----------



## peacesells

legal eagle said:


> How can the mortgage situation not take up 50 per cent of this debate?
> 
> I think.... I mean I really think  low rates are crucial in this market.
> 
> I cannot believe this is purely business and the banks are just looting a sinking ship.
> 
> 
> Do you realise if they dropped rates it could increase everyone's buying ability by a multiple of 3 or 4?
> 
> It is 100% what sustains a market- and its why the FIRST reaction of most major economies in the world downturn was to.... check their fucking rates.
> 
> This is not a small variable people, it is outrageous.


By the way, I agree with you but for some reason I'm reading your post as if you think I don't.


----------



## legal eagle

*collapse*

If there is not a better reason for the rates *not* being cut dramatically, then the guys at the top are incapable.

It is a key driver and the UAE has missed the opportunity- I am trying to keep this as easy to comprehend as possible, low rates drove property markets like Spain, Portugal, Cyprus for 20 years.

(Yes, they are correcting now, but after twenty years of fantastic growth)


And by the time they do it no doubt the damage will have been done... rediculous.

Imagine a doctor trying to buy a house here on his salary? he has approx 3 times less spending power then in Europe, USA? Point is even salaried proffessionals are going to end up unable to buy- well done hno:


----------



## legal eagle

peacesells said:


> By the way, I agree with you but for some reason I'm reading your post as if you think I don't.


 no, no i was just having a shout in general at the powers that be!


----------



## legal eagle

desertmaster said:


> All Banks combined together cannot finance all of dubai !! the practice of mortgage financing is making a packet (ie issuing finance to the market) for eg of 100 million dhs and then getting it refinanced. It works more like insurance and re insurance. the banks in dubai merely act as brokers. So the rates are decided in accordance to what finance they get and what risks the world percives to finance dubai. it also depends on the rating of the bank here. In short the world does not see dubai as stable so they charge more intrest as risks are more and we end users end up paying more.


thanks for this Desertmaster

so is it actually out of their hands? are the banks here not adding a bucket load of profit to any mortgage product hitting the market?

If its out of their control then so be it, can;t really rant and rave- except to say they may need to create their own lending vehicles, from their own cash.


----------



## desertmaster

*Mortgage*



legal eagle said:


> thanks for this Desertmaster
> 
> so is it actually out of their hands? are the banks here not adding a bucket load of profit to any mortgage product hitting the market?
> 
> If its out of their control then so be it, can;t really rant and rave- except to say they may need to create their own lending vehicles, from their own cash.



yes u correct to some extent the banks here are also greedy and adding more margin than normally they would do with thier own branch lets say in USA


----------



## legal eagle

desertmaster said:


> yes u correct to some extent the banks here are also greedy and adding more margin than normally they would do with thier own branch lets say in USA


can you help us calculate what realistically interest rates could be- just to make sure this is an area I feel has been unbelievably neglected.


I guess we need to start at the federal rate level right?


----------



## desertmaster

*Rera*

I think this RERA coming out with all this data is another eyewash and in the end will bring the rents up to the majority of people who have been staying here on THE SAME premisies on rent before 2005. 

there has to be a clear cut formula for rent control in dubai !!

is there a formula which is fair on everybody ? 

does the goverment interfere in say UK ,USA , europe , Cyprus etc or even India ?

in India : NO its totally demand and supply.


----------



## heavensent

count me in... we have to act collectively... whats the next plan of action....

by the way i have mortgaged by tamweel and paid 85% thus far... and im very unhappy hno:


----------



## desertmaster

*mortgage*



legal eagle said:


> can you help us calculate what realistically interest rates could be- just to make sure this is an area I feel has been unbelievably neglected.
> 
> 
> I guess we need to start at the federal rate level right?


yes but which currency. if all the speculation is put the rest about delinking the dirham with the dollar we can start with the dollar.


----------



## skdubai

i think you guys are missing the fundamental point here... the banks are maintaining high interest rates not becuase they are greedy... it is because they are preparing themselves for the oncoming defaults. Until now, we have only scraped the top, the real problem comes when those abandoned cars do not pay for the loan amount, the repossessed properties do not pay for the loans etc., 

Because of the lack of transparency, we do not know the true extent of the bank's exposure to such things and their links with the broader world economy, but i would think the management of these banks do and they are shitting bricks right now. 

Another basic problem that the banks here have is that they cannot depend on deposits for cash sources. Almost every ex pat who lives here and/or has a business here would feel safer sending their cash back home and they usually do (at least most Indians do) so there is always a pressure on the local banks when it comes to liquidity..

My credit card limit was reduced by half this month, and i have never made a late payment in my life, so you can imagine how worried they are. 

Lending will improve things for those willing to buy, but in the current market condition, there are very few brave souls who are actually willing to do that.


----------



## desertmaster

skdubai said:


> i think you guys are missing the fundamental point here... the banks are maintaining high interest rates not becuase they are greedy... it is because they are preparing themselves for the oncoming defaults. Until now, we have only scraped the top, the real problem comes when those abandoned cars do not pay for the loan amount, the repossessed properties do not pay for the loans etc.,
> 
> Because of the lack of transparency, we do not know the true extent of the bank's exposure to such things and their links with the broader world economy, but i would think the management of these banks do and they are shitting bricks right now.
> 
> My credit card limit was reduced by half this month, and i have never made a late payment in my life, so you can imagine how worried they are.
> 
> Lending will improve things for those willing to buy, but in the current market condition, there are very few brave souls who are actually willing to do that.



Yes you are correct , but all this is happening because nobody is buying thier debt now. and who ever was buying before was doing at a higher intrest rates. banks will finish thier money in 30 mins if they cannot refinance the debt so they reducing. they will cancel the credit cards which have open limits but they stuck with the cards with full limit used. they are shitting bricks thats for sure.


----------



## nri-hotels

HarryKane said:


> Oman
> Qatar
> Kuwait
> besides other Emirates in the UAE to name a few.
> Want more?


If it safer there then why isnt there an influx into those countries?


----------



## fat & Happy

I am a bit thick on the subject of mortgages. But nonetheless have a naive view point. As I see it (correct me if I am wrong), that high interest is usually for high risk. If the people buying in Dubai live elsewhere than that is a high enough risk. If however even these people are able to self fund a high percentage, maybe 50%. This illustrates to the banks that the consumer has a degree of commitment to have either come up with the funds as well a commitment to the property they are buying. Historically in the Uk this would alone constitute a better rate.

Also if these properties are in good holiday destinations or good rental locations where it is evident that they will actually be in profit, surely this would constitute a reason for the banks to lend. Additionally they could market mortgages at a lower rate if they held some control and could foreclose on the loan in case of default. Lets face it the market would have to be horrific for it to less than 50% of the OP.


----------



## nri-hotels

bizzybonita said:


> First , I wanna to tell something about alcohol make sure not because we are Muslims so we not lovin it ...second , all Muslims were lovin it better then they others but in same way they knows about what's more teastful one ..
> 
> " today or tomorrow "
> 
> Finally ,i heard in seven heaven it is so much tasteful then 1600's Richard Head II :lol::lol:


huh ? :?


----------



## skdubai

nri-hotels said:


> If it safer there then why isnt there an influx into those countries?


Probably because they neither have the jobs or the lifestyle you can have here...


----------



## legal eagle

desertmaster said:


> Yes you are correct , but all this is happening because nobody is buying thier debt now. and who ever was buying before was doing at a higher intrest rates. banks will finish thier money in 30 mins if they cannot refinance the debt so they reducing. they will cancel the credit cards which have open limits but they stuck with the cards with full limit used. they are shitting bricks thats for sure.


so based on the dollar, what could interest rates be on mortgages- can we not carry out an exercise to see?

Sorry but I'm not quite sure of the techinicals here


----------



## nri-hotels

skdubai said:


> Probably because they neither have the jobs or the lifestyle you can have here...


exactly my point, so Dubai should never consider going "fundamental" else risk losing what they built up for so far.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

pcheesman said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> I have just heard from one of my colleagues this morning who has friends working for NBD, that they have decided not to offer mortgages to expats anymore. Apparently this is a directive from the central bank, so it will affect all the banks.
> 
> Now I am not certain of this at this time, so I am posting this to see if anyone else can confirm
> 
> I assume it's because expats are running away and defaulting on their loans etc.
> 
> 
> Anyway if true, it will cause huge problems.
> 
> Please can anyone confirm this?
> 
> 
> pchees



Why are they afraid to lend to expats. If they loose their job and run away they can take the property back which will be worth more than the loan due to the large deposit needed. Are they expecting properties in the marina for example to drop 30% or 40% from current prices? If they stop lending however, expats will loose more jobs and put their existing portfolio at risk of depreciation.


----------



## peacesells

Hanna said:


> Property Developers Still Unprepared for Strata Law
> (Staff Report)
> 
> 
> 15 January 2009
> DUBAI — Almost 60 per cent of the property developers in the UAE are still unprepared for Strata law, said Peter Crogan, Chief Executive Officer of BCS°© Strata Management Services, the first UAE-based strata management company.
> 
> Dubai is expected to issue the country’s first code on strata management shortly, as part of raising standards and cementing investor confidence in the emirate’s property market. The Dubai Condominium Law will set proper guidelines on the management of common areas and facilities – collectively referred to as ‘strata’ – in multi-user developments.
> 
> Crogan said developers need to move fast and get their act together so that the new law can be smoothly integrated into Dubai realty. “Clearly, developers are running out of time. They need to move fast to ensure that there is a fair level of awareness of strata management and of shared responsibilities in a jointly owned property.”
> 
> The Condominium Law will define the role of the Owners Association, a representative body comprising unit owners in a development, as well as the developer’s role in the day-to-day management of shared facilities such as elevators, garden, gym and swimming pool.
> 
> “Strata Law is still a very new concept in the Middle East. One of the main challenges would be educating tenants that developers will not own or manage common areas anymore. However, once such ambiguities on property ownership are cleared, the market will see an increased inflow of foreign investment and transparency,” said Crogan. BCS Strata Management Services is currently employing its experience and expertise to build awareness on the Strata Law, in addition to providing industry leading strata management services to major developers in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. The Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) in Dubai has tied up with BCS Strata Management Services to educate over 4,000 industry professionals this year under the RERA Real Estate Accreditation programme at the Dubai Real Estate Institute.


Infomercial. These BCS people have been bugging us with their crap for months. In fact, I'm staring at their blue weird-smelling brochure as I type this. If this law is treated with same amount of internal rules and procedures as the escrow law, the 'training' is useless. C'mon RERA, release the law already!


----------



## IISinbadII

> Why are they afraid to lend to expats. If they loose their job and run away they can take the property back which will be worth more than the loan due to the large deposit needed. Are they expecting properties in the marina for example to drop 30% or 40% from current prices?


In the current environment they can't count on property. It may not drop that much, but the fact is that no one can predict how much the actual drop would be. So its safe for them not to lend. 

Also, locals have no place to run to, while expats have a suitcase ready all the time.....:runaway:



> If they stop lending however, expats will loose more jobs and put their existing portfolio at risk of depreciation.


I don't think they would think that far.


----------



## desertmaster

they dont have the money to lend. expats buy property and need the finance in freehold.the percentage of locals would be in single digits and if you ask me they would rather lend to expats than to locals. so to sum it up they have stopped lending !!!!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ I agree seems NBD have gone bust, better get your savings out of there fast! NBD are the new Northern Rock.


----------



## Imre

RAKBANK still give loan but just for residents and just for Nakheel,Emaar and DP projects.only 20% down payment.


----------



## nisha

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ I agree seems NBD have gone bust, better get your savings out of there fast! NBD are the new Northern Rock.


It is EmiratesNBD and is majority owned by the Government of Dubai....


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Mashreq appear to be lending on many projects to expats, are they still lending?

http://www.mashreqbank.com/personal/borrowing/mortgages/home-mortgages.asp


----------



## Imre

nisha said:


> It is EmiratesNBD and is majority owned by the Government of Dubai....


yes, money in the right place with them


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Then the government just wants to sit on the little cash it has left rather than invest with 8% return. How will they make a profit?


----------



## desertmaster

Dubai_Steve said:


> Then the government just wants to sit on the little cash it has left rather than invest with 8% return. Whilst other banks are still lending?


its this way IMHO they say they are lending but refuse a major major of applications. so they end up saying we lend and dont lend !!!!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Bank loans given to opportunistic property developers who could struggle to repay are being blamed for the credit outlook in the United Arab Emirates dropping to negative.

Moody's Investors Service said it now expects the outlook to remain negative for the next 12 to 18 months as the banking system bears the strains of falling property prices and tightening liquidity.

Analysts said that the estimate is poor because of a large number of bank loans given to property developers who are expected to struggle to repay as the property market under goes a widespread price correction.

'Moody's is mainly concerned about the loans to opportunistic developers that have been extended over the past four to five years following Dubai's decision to allow freehold ownership for foreigners in 2003,' said John Tofarides, a Moody's analyst.

Another factor is tightening liquidity, which is likely to weigh on future asset growth and profitability, while the collapse in oil prices will weaken the UAE's fiscal surpluses and economic growth in 2009, he added.

http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/dubai-downgraded-credit-outlook-200901152410.html


----------



## nisha

IISinbadII said:


> In the current environment they can't count on property. It may not drop that much, but the fact is that no one can predict how much the actual drop would be. So its safe for them not to lend.
> 
> Also, locals have no place to run to, while expats have a suitcase ready all the time.....:runaway:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they would think that far.


Lots of customers with negative equity in their properties (Springs; Ranches) have left Dubai and returned to their home countries...so no surprise then that some banks have stopped lending to expats.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Homeowners are trying to sell at significantly discounted prices to offload their properties amid a stuttering market.

Posing as a prospective buyer of a two-bedroom apartment in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, a reporter was immediately able to knock about 10% off several advertised prices.

One broker selling a Dh2.6m apartment at Jumeirah Beach Residence refused to offer more than a Dh200,000 discount as he said the price had already been slashed by more than Dh1m since the summer. 

The National 

http://www.propertyweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=297&storycode=3131501&c=1


----------



## amplesou

*Progress ?*

Thats remarkable progress since i took this pic on 27 th of october 2008 :cheers:
Maybe the 2 % is due on completion :lol:


----------



## i love dubai

I need reader's opinion please. 
Do you think *selling *a botanica apartment on the 15 years lengthy payment plan would be any easier than selling the ones on the standard payment plan?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ yes much easier and you can ask for more. Torch apartments with LPP sell for more than those without.


----------



## Richard Head

Dubai_Steve said:


> Homeowners are trying to sell at significantly discounted prices to offload their properties amid a stuttering market.
> 
> Posing as a prospective buyer of a two-bedroom apartment in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, a reporter was immediately able to knock about 10% off several advertised prices.
> 
> One broker selling a Dh2.6m apartment at Jumeirah Beach Residence refused to offer more than a Dh200,000 discount as he said the price had already been slashed by more than Dh1m since the summer.
> 
> The National
> 
> http://www.propertyweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=297&storycode=3131501&c=1



It's the first day of DSF. Undercover brain-donating CIA agent didn't realise that standard DSF protocol is to raise the price by 30% on Jan 14th, then drop it by 15% on Jan 15th, creating the illusion of a bargain. Jesus H Christ, how stupid can journalists get?


----------



## amplesou

*2 % payment*

please if i do not pay 2% land registry fee by 17 of january ( this saturday) what will happen something awful?
hno: i do have the durhams for the payment ready if nesarsary but i do not want to break ranks with you guys ?
here is the rera laws note no 13 here ! http://rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/jsp/template.jsp?pageID=10007&&lang=0#12


regards


----------



## Safrica

Dubai_Steve said:


> Then the government just wants to sit on the little cash it has left rather than invest with 8% return. How will they make a profit?


Its simple. They are legally and openly stealing.
Those that have invested in dubai were promised visas, ease of finance etc
Get people to invest, change the rules let them default on payments and take it all,
It is sad that dubai is portrayed as a islamic countrie. 
Bottom line "stealing"


----------



## Richard Head

tehsin123 said:


> I wanted to laugh at your comment but won't. Time is not right. Why would you want to extend the life of a time bomb and make it worse. .


Where did I say this is what I wanted? I stated only what I thought would happen, made no comment whatsoever on whether I thought this was a good thing or not.




tehsin123 said:


> I. Its a blessing in disguise that it is over now.
> 
> .


I have previously commented on this forum that I believe we may look back on this in a few years and see it as something that enabled Dubai to take a breather, get the infrastructure projects back ahead of the growth curve, and stabilise it's long term potential. So yeah, I agree with you. Probably is a blessing in disguise, although the drop is a bit too fast for my liking now. Would have preferred the slowdown to happen in a more controlled fashion, which probably would have happened if it hadn't coincided (or indeed been triggered) by the global recession.


----------



## tehsin123

Richard Head said:


> Probably is a blessing in disguise, although the drop is a bit too fast for my liking now. Would have preferred the slowdown to happen in a more controlled fashion, which probably would have happened if it hadn't coincided (or indeed been triggered) by the global recession.


Market reversals are always like this. Fear is much stronger than greed. Someone on this forum would remember internet stock mania during late ninetees. I was an active trader then. Market was booming booming and booming. New traders didn't know anything like selling. They just bought and made money. Even loss making companies were trading at hundreds of dollars. What madness. But then the crash, $100 stocks came to $10 in just few days. Most of those are vanished by now, some are still struggling while some are ruling like yahoo, google, amzaons etc. These corrections can be good most of the times. Investors went back into tech stocks after few quarters and were more picky. The result: Quality prevailed, trash out. 

In order for investors to return to the market, regulatory authorities need to give more confidence and embrace them under their protection. Else, as mentioned earlier, fear is always strong than greed, people will run away.
There is a serious need for the authorities to come out, speak and give confidence. Nations don't get these chances again and again, once money becomes shy, it takes decades to return.

I have give 25 years to this country and pray that nothing goes wrong here for everyone living here. We all write our thoughts to make it even better place to live.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai's real estate regulator has introduced an official rental price index for the emirate, as once soaring rents show signs of easing off amid a property boom.

"This index is for guidance, not regulation," Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) chief executive Marwan bin Ghalita said yesterday.

"This will enhance transparency in the market and help investors have a solid idea of what rent in their investment should be in the coming near future based on statistics." 

The price range guidance will be for all types of properties and will stop landlords from putting rents too high, RERA said.

*Dubai plans to scrap a five per cent cap on rental increases this year*, Ghalita said, adding that the emirate had no need of a cap in what is likely to be a difficult year.

The Dubai government was the first in the Gulf region to introduce a rent cap in 2007 to help tackle soaring inflation and spiralling rents amid a property boom.

Rental rates for apartments and villas have been levelling off throughout last year with an average growth rate of 4pc and 8pc respectively.


----------



## amplesou

*2 % payment*

I purchased in 2006 before all the big increases !
according to gulf news property agents my property is still worth over double what i am paying for it ?
Paid 717,200 durhams for a one bed 16 th floor front canal facing 839 sq. ft Inc. balcony they seemed to be selling for 1250,000 more/less! ^^
Sorry i know this is not an investor forum but there is a different issue here ? .:nuts:


----------



## Scheherazade

^^ Do you have a link to the "index"???


----------



## padddyh

*2% Fee*

I also bought in Canal Residence Venetian Tower. I received the same demand for a 2% fee and emailed Sports City twice to enquire and received no response. I contacted the estate agent I bought the apartment through and they have informed me not to pay until they meet Sports City next week. 

Has anybody received a progress report on what stage Canal Residence West is at??

They dont seem to respond to any emails and the last time I spoke to them they said the development would either be finished in Sept 09 or Sept 2010 a totally ridiculous response. I asked them if they were 2 years behind constructing the development how come they I still have to pay my stage payments as per contract. They did not even reply. I would love to meet them face too face and and get some straight answers. They are all cowards who have my money and dont care


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Imre said:


> Gulfnews:
> 
> Universal Studios was originally scheduled for completion in 2010, but it is now going to be complete in the first quarter of 2012 at the very earliest, a source said. Gulf News contacted both Tatweer and their spokespeople but received no comment.


It really annoys me that they are cutting back and delaying this, surely this is a priority to attract the much needed tourists to Dubai :nuts:


----------



## Steverobo

I also own in the Venetian building, 1 bed 15th floor.
I asked DSC about payments and they responded as follows

_With regards to the completion date, please note that the expected date of completion is 1st quarter of 2010. DSC Management is working out a new payment plan at the moment. We will advice the new schedule in no time

Regards,

Francis Njoroge
Credit Administrator
Dubai Sports City
P.O. Box 111123
Dubai , United Arab Emirates_

They are still saying the 2% must be paid but now say I have 4 weeks from the email date of 7th Jan ?

Steve


----------



## HappyLarry

Dubai_Steve said:


> It really annoys me that they are cutting back and delaying this, surely this is a priority to attract the much needed tourists to Dubai :nuts:


Cash is king and it is not currently flowing. No doubt normality will return in a few months.
Cheer up everyone. :cheers:


----------



## amplesou

*progress report!?*



padddyh said:


> I also bought in Canal Residence Venetian Tower. I received the same demand for a 2% fee and emailed Sports City twice to enquire and received no response. I contacted the estate agent I bought the apartment through and they have informed me not to pay until they meet Sports City next week.
> 
> !!!!Has anybody received a progress report on what stage Canal Residence West is at??!!!!!
> 
> They dont seem to respond to any emails and the last time I spoke to them they said the development would either be finished in Sept 09 or Sept 2010 a totally ridiculous response. I asked them if they were 2 years behind constructing the development how come they I still have to pay my stage payments as per contract. They did not even reply. I would love to meet them face too face and and get some straight answers. They are all cowards who have my money and dont care


!!!I think if you look back a few posts!!!! ^^


----------



## HarryKane

HappyLarry said:


> No doubt normality will return in a few months.


Everybody has their own version of a crystal ball these days.


----------



## IISinbadII

*RENTAL INDEX *

Rental Index for both *Residential* and *Commercial* property could be downloaded from the following link:

http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/pdf/Rental-Index-30-12-08.xls

Its in English but contents are in Arabic. Look for Freehold Residential areas under * التملك الحر*


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Why is JLT rated higher than Dubai marina :nuts:


----------



## nri-hotels

Good phrase. The trick of course is to know which stocks (or industries) are quality. On both sides of a boom curve (upswing and downswing) its hard to really know which are quality and which are not. It would seem that its easy to find quality stocks towards the bottom of a crash, as much trash should have been weeded out by then. But then again its hard to know if such quality stocks might have "skeletons in the closet" that might drive their prices lower. Its hard to find quality. IMHO its better to wait for a prolonged upswing (three to six months from bottom of crash) before selectively choosing stocks/property (for long term investment).

Another good point you brought up is the fact that regulatory bodies are not perfect. Its often the case than not, when regulators become better at their job, AFTER collapses or carnages on asset markets, like stocks and property. We are seeing that with RERA in Dubai who have recently introduced new policies towards the property market. IMHO i would prefer to invest in countries that initially have very strict conservative regulations on its asset markets (like Singapore / Malaysia etc). Unfortunately, there are cases (like Madoff) when even regulators are completely fooled (if not liable) by fraud.



tehsin123 said:


> Market reversals are always like this. Fear is much stronger than greed. Someone on this forum would remember internet stock mania during late ninetees. I was an active trader then. Market was booming booming and booming. New traders didn't know anything like selling. They just bought and made money. Even loss making companies were trading at hundreds of dollars. What madness. But then the crash, $100 stocks came to $10 in just few days. Most of those are vanished by now, some are still struggling while some are ruling like yahoo, google, amzaons etc. These corrections can be good most of the times. Investors went back into tech stocks after few quarters and were more picky. *The result: Quality prevailed, trash out. *
> 
> In order for investors to return to the market, regulatory authorities need to give more confidence and embrace them under their protection. Else, as mentioned earlier, fear is always strong than greed, people will run away.
> There is a serious need for the authorities to come out, speak and give confidence. Nations don't get these chances again and again, once money becomes shy, it takes decades to return.
> 
> I have give 25 years to this country and pray that nothing goes wrong here for everyone living here. We all write our thoughts to make it even better place to live.


----------



## IISinbadII

I can't find JLT Commercial in the Index? hno:


----------



## legal eagle

Tom_Green said:


> Right now beside shopping, the ski hall and Wild Wadi not much.
> 
> The developer concentrated themself too much on building residential towers, villas and shopping malls. There is no real attraction u/c in Dubai.


This is one of the most incredible points about Dubai.

It really has not (actually) built in many attractions for tourists.

On one side of the coin its amazing they ever got the traffic considering the limited attractions- on the other what a shame not to do more in the near term.


----------



## diveksa

*RENTAL INDEX*


----------



## desertmaster

*Rent Index*

Dont you all think that this rent index is of no use now as all parameters have been changed after the slowdown since last quarter of 2008. keeping in mind that they were working on this index whole of last year ???

as a tennant i would feel that this index is for the protection of the landlords.


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> Why is JLT rated higher than Dubai marina :nuts:


many office towers there , that is increase the value.


----------



## dubaimarina2008

Imre said:


> problems everywhere:
> 
> 
> *Abu Dhabi Wealth Fund Lost $125 Billion*
> 
> 
> Jan. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Abu Dhabi Investment Authority may have lost $125 billion last year, pushing the sovereign wealth fund to second place behind Saudi Arabia after the global credit crisis cut asset prices, economists at the Council on Foreign Relations said in a report.
> 
> Abu Dhabi’s fund was “hard hit by the recent fall in global equities,” Brad Setser and Rachel Ziemba wrote in the report released on the New York-based organization’s Web site. “A high allocation to equities, emerging market and private equity” contributed to the drop.
> 
> Erik Portanger, a spokesman for the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, declined to comment. pid=newsarchive&sid=aiwo9Kmvclyc[/url]


I think Abu Dhabi should invest to to their own land. What you can get $125 Billion? Now everything is gone. hno:


----------



## smussuw

Mahdi is not a Sheikh


----------



## AppleMac

234sale said:


> I do agree, but that is something speculated apon. It was always of the understanding it was a promise from a developer, not a decree from the Goverment.


I agree - but most of the developers are government companies.


----------



## smussuw

The one who were promised residence visa were given that when they applied, it wasn't guaranteed that they will get it for ever. 

Time to move on !


----------



## AppleMac

smussuw said:


> The one who were promised residence visa were given that when they applied, it wasn't guaranteed that they will get it for ever.


Untrue - my contract with Emaar promises a visa - but as Emaar are running over a year behind schedule as usual by the time they deliver the rules have changed and no visas are forthcoming.


----------



## The P of T

i have also purchased a one bed unit crw med tower since june 06. I haven't received a letter requesting the 2% fee. Has anybody else not received anything about this?? Shoul i be concerned??

You can count me in this petition...since so far i have paid over 50%.


----------



## gerald.d

Now I'm not for one moment going to suggest that newspaper polls are a particularly accurate reflection of reality, but even so...

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/City_Talk/10276016.html



> In a recent Gulf News poll, 39 per cent of respondents said they will look for cheaper accommodation when their tenancy contract comes up for renewal, *23 per cent said they will leave the country*, 22 per cent will stay where they are, 13 per cent will negotiate and the 3 per cent living in Dubai said they will approach the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera).


----------



## 234sale

AppleMac said:


> Untrue - my contract with Emaar promises a visa - but as Emaar are running over a year behind schedule as usual by the time they deliver the rules have changed and no visas are forthcoming.


Can you maybe photograph or scan that clause. Just interested. I can't remember it in my Springs contract, It was more a right to apply.


----------



## peacesells

234sale said:


> Can you maybe photograph or scan that clause. Just interested. I can't remember it in my Springs contract, It was more a right to apply.


Yes, the visa clause in Emaar contracts (and in pretty much every other contract) is a 'right - to - apply' clause rather than a guarantee clause.


----------



## worried1

*You are wrong 234sale moderator*



234sale said:


> You cannot open a current account in the UK without EU residence.
> Same in the USA... you need to have proof of address, plus residence status.
> 
> You cannot get UK residence status unless you are working or studying in the UK.
> 
> Why do you expect Dubai / UAE to have an open arm to everyone and anyone. We are not in the UK / EU.. you must of seen the immigration boarders with people trying to sneak into the country.
> 
> I would go as far to say, if you don't have a job in Dubai, then you shouldn't really be here. No free public health service, no unemployment benefits.
> 
> I am kind of feed up of people bashing the UAE. 20 years ago Dubai was a fishing village, its never going to revert back to its old routes as a primary source of GDP.
> 
> Yes it would be great to have a Retirement Visa with the correct assurances, but having a visa just because you had enough money to buy a studio in international city, doesn't cut it or me.


You are wrong. You dont need residence visa in USA, all you need is a proof of residence. the residence could be anywhere in the world!! (including the axis of evil countries)----the normal internationally accepted KYC (know your customer) rules.

The question here is OPENING BANK ACCOUNT.

Nobody wants a UK residence visa--but you can open a bank account, without comming to the UK, with the Internationally accepted KYC.

What does Dubai think, someone will open a bank account, deposit their money (rents etc ) and RUN AWAY!!!

You obviously reflect some kind of paranoia. Why cant Dubai just return everyones money, who has invested under false promises. A lot of us, if we could only get our money back, would erase the thoughts of Dubai/UAE from our minds.:bash:


----------



## mackie1964

You can have a saving account with any bank in Dubai. I have a few and many people on here do too. You can manage your accounts on line. Don't understand what the issue is !:bash:


----------



## mission

Question:

Is it okay to approach my tenant now and see if she/he want my apartment for another year. The tenancy finishes in May.... I just want to put the feelers out and see if they would like it for another year????


----------



## nisha

AppleMac said:


> Untrue - my contract with Emaar promises a visa - but as Emaar are running over a year behind schedule as usual by the time they deliver the rules have changed and no visas are forthcoming.


You are right - I have read many Sale-Purchase Agreements between Nakheel/Emaar and buyers and they ALL stated that the property comes with a so called residence visa (if required and with a cost attached) - and I don't think they ever had any clause to state that this could be withdrawn in the future. 

Sorry, this is nothing but mis-selling, because a lot of people did buy with the intention of retiring in Dubai.


----------



## Mistermark

234sale said:


> I would go as far to say, if you don't have a job in Dubai, then you shouldn't really be here. No free public health service, no unemployment benefits.
> 
> Yes it would be great to have a Retirement Visa with the correct assurances, but having a visa just because you had enough money to buy a studio in international city, doesn't cut it or me.


There are a great many people in the world who have sufficient resources not to require a job in Dubai in order to support themselves without needing to rely on the state. Not just the retired but people who've built up and sold businesses, own portfolios of shares or properties that generate sufficient yields to live on, trust beneficiaries, people who've inherited... the list goes on.

Developers selling properties in Dubai offered residency visas to purchasers, with the full knowledge and involvement of the government, and master developers owned and controlled by them. The emirate undermined its credibility with investors substantially by reneging on this last year. Let's hope moves to restore the facility succeed - not only because it creates an additional market for properties that isn't so reliant on the state of the economy but because it shows the ruling family to be willing to make good on its promises.


----------



## Hanna

nisha said:


> You are right - I have read many Sale-Purchase Agreements between Nakheel/Emaar and buyers and they ALL stated that the property comes with a so called residence visa (if required and with a cost attached) - and I don't think they ever had any clause to state that this could be withdrawn in the future.
> 
> Sorry, this is nothing but mis-selling, because a lot of people did buy with the intention of retiring in Dubai.


Hi nisha


I agree mine says the same thing they should be done under a mis-selling act if they had one.

If they had they would just change it anyway, the great man of vision could not run the proverbial bath.Confidence is draining away on a daily basis.Just have a look at the Duabi Borse and all the big company's losses from last year its horrendous,Arabtec and the rest of the contractors will be lucky to survive the onslought if this keeps up.

Visa rules is just one part of it there are a lot of other factors, he will need to get of his ass and start getting to work on his heads of Government to get a formula in place. 

The thing I am not surprised at is the lack of coverage on this issue of withdrawing Visa's no papers and no TV nothing because they control everything and drip feed info to the expat's at will.:cheers:


----------



## HappyLarry

Hanna said:


> Hi nisha
> 
> 
> I agree mine says the same thing they should be done under a mis-selling act if they had one.
> 
> If they had they would just change it anyway, the great man of vision could not run the proverbial bath.Confidence is draining away on a daily basis.Just have a look at the Duabi Borse and all the big company's losses from last year its horrendous,Arabtec and the rest of the contractors will be lucky to survive the onslought if this keeps up.
> 
> Visa rules is just one part of it there are a lot of other factors, he will need to get of his ass and start getting to work on his heads of Government to get a formula in place.
> 
> The thing I am not surprised at is the lack of coverage on this issue of withdrawing Visa's no papers and no TV nothing because they control everything and drip feed info to the expat's at will.:cheers:


Dear Hanna - 
1. you don't need to be disrespectful to the Ruler. Please choose your language with care. Afterall, you are from England.
2. This visa issue discussed here is being over-egged a little. Dubai continues to welcome those who can make genuine contribution to Dubai's vision.


----------



## AppleMac

234sale said:


> Can you maybe photograph or scan that clause. Just interested. I can't remember it in my Springs contract, It was more a right to apply.





















Whilst it didn't guarantee anything it insinuated that Emaar would sponsor a residence visa for buyers - which to be fair they did for the early applicants.

If the government were of the opinion that buying property did not entitle you to a residence visa then why were their main construction company promoting it as a benefit of buying property from them?


----------



## HappyLarry

AppleMac said:


> Whilst it didn't guarantee anything it insinuated that Emaar would sponsor a residence visa for buyers - which to be fair they did for the early applicants.
> 
> If the government were of the opinion that buying property did not entitle you to a residence visa then why were their main construction company promoting it as a benefit of buying property from them?


Hopefully, that is clear enough for all speculators.
Anyway, if you are buying to live in Dubai then if your contract has a clause as above then there is no problem . The Vendor will sponsor you.
It also makes it clear that if you get your visa and move over to Dubai and then decide to sell up and want to do something else in Dubai then your right to the residency visa, according to this contract, has ceased and you will need to find another sponsor.


----------



## AppleMac

HappyLarry said:


> The Vendor will sponsor you.


Which is no longer the case - so a clear case of mis-selling?




> It also makes it clear that if you get your visa and move over to Dubai and then decide to sell up and want to do something else in Dubai then your right to the residency visa, according to this contract, has ceased and you will need to find another sponsor.


never in any doubt - and I donty know of anyone who thought otherwise.


----------



## Philippa C

I think authorities in Dubai genuinely wanted to offer residence visas to property purchasers but they have been reigned in by Abu Dhabi which has a stricter approach to giving visas. One would think that Dubai would have got the ok from Abu Dhabi to offer visas as it's such an important issue.


----------



## Hanna

*Visa !*

Its that an important issue because the first thing any new clients are going to ask in the future is how long will my Visa last me,and they are told sorry it is now 3 months what chance have they got of selling anything never mind in this credit downturn it is just plain crazy if you ask me.

I bet if they did a survey on what the main reason for picking Dubai as a place to stay I bet Visa is right up there.

Then you get back to the old chesnut called trust which they might have had a modicum off is well and truly blown they can and do change with the wind.:cheers:


----------



## 234sale

He is a friend, but I have tried to call him and no answer.

I helped him out of buying a property at The Address 3 months back so he probably owes me anyway.


----------



## 234sale

I think his company is involved with a DZ, maybe he has gone into hiding. BUt when we do speak it will be monthly rent or I am off.


----------



## skdubai

dbxdude said:


> if you read the link, it says its time to read the 'good book' and make a garden to grow foods..... come on... its rediculous, it also supposes a sinsiter group of individuals who are not elected rule the world.... please. Its almost as dediculous as people saying dubai is bankrupt... dubai is part of the UAE.
> 
> I suppose you think the dievincie code was a true story as well....


Ignore the stuff about "those people" etc., but the fact remains, once this current crisis is over, the US is in for a far bigger crisis with its currency. You should really read up on this, very scary stuff... The article may have gone overboard with the paranoia, but it does hit on some very important issues.


----------



## 234sale

gerald.d said:


> Really? Wow.
> 
> I take it he's done a runner as he couldn't afford the mortgage repayments, or something along those lines?
> 
> How does that impact you as a tenant then??
> 
> I'd be interested to hear your reasoning behind this (not challenging what you're saying - would genuinely like to hear what you think will happen, and learn from it).


I'm guessing that rates will come down to 6%, 2nd Qtr 2009

If I buy a property and the mortgage repayment is 6%, all I need you to do is pay that for 20 years and the property is mine. I will get close to 4% in a savings account. But some real deals are already in the market.

Business Bay Executive Towers, 1000-1400AED on average sqft for a 1000 sqft 1 bed, if you have 30% cash, just rent for 4 years to cover the mortgage, then sell when market recovers.

Example
1,200,000 unit price
360,000 cash in
Approx Repayment 60,000 on 20years
plus District cooling 10,000
plus Service Charge 20,000

So most towers will be 90 AED sqft to rent,

The average rent will be 30% lower, but the cap yield will be 6%


----------



## smussuw

The government is indirectly saying that rents should be 25% lower than the levels of 2008 ..........

gerald.d, its poor translation as u said


----------



## dbxdude

so what happens if you pay 12months in advance and then your landlord defaults and runs off.... can the bank kick you out ? hmmm interesting - no doubt we will find out soon enough....


----------



## AITU

smussuw said:


> The government is indirectly saying that rents should be 25% lower than the levels of 2008 ..........
> 
> gerald.d, its poor translation as u said


Really? I have read the articles published on the subject and conclude differently.

If you signed a rental contract in 2008 then no increases are possible in 2009. Landlords can raise "historically low rents" i.e. those people that have been protected by the rent cap for 3-4 years up to a level within 25% of the lower threshold on the new rental index.


----------



## smussuw

^^ yes but those "historically low rents" are an exception. For example if a landlord is renting 40% less than the renting index he can only raise it by 15% which is very reasonable, in the same time, even if the rent is 25% less than the index he cannot raise the rent at all.


----------



## Rob Timpie

Yep, you're right, still the same hole for this one...


----------



## Jeroen45

234sale said:


> I was once told by some very wealth people, for every $5 only really $1 exists.


Much less that that! All dollars are debt which means they even don't exist in the real world, all dollars are future promises which can be payed back by American tax incomes. Our current monetary system is a scam of immense proportions, a ponzi/pyramid scheme. Only gold can protect for what's coming this year...


----------



## malec

If the stories about the amount of people leaving dubai are true I don't see how there won't be a massive rent crash soon.


----------



## Freestyler

Imre said:


> Palm Jebel Ali ,
> 
> Waterhome for 2.145.000 AED ( 3 units)
> 
> 30 % paid
> 
> but still no buyer for it


why would anyone buy in PJA? That development is risky and many not complete for a long time even if at all.


----------



## Money2Burn

2 questions as I cannot even sleep (look at the time of posting) since I returned to Dubai after chrismas:

1. If my rent (no freehold area, local landlord) has been increased last year and is due for renewal in March 2009, can the landord increase again?
2. I own a 1BR in Churchill Towers that I bought for 1.6Mil when it was worth 1.8Mil as per Coliers Int. on a 68% mortgage with DIB.
Now that no-one really knows how much its worth, can the bank ask me to come up with some more cash due to decrease in value?


----------



## IISinbadII

Money2Burn said:


> 2 questions as I cannot even sleep (look at the time of posting) since I returned to Dubai after chrismas:
> 
> 1. If my rent (no freehold area, local landlord) has been increased last year and is due for renewal in March 2009, can the landord increase again?


It seems that he can as per the formula written by smussuw (see next page).


----------



## Imre

Money2Burn said:


> I own a 1BR in Churchill Towers that I bought for 1.6Mil when it was worth 1.8Mil as per Coliers Int. on a 68% mortgage with DIB.
> Now that no-one really knows how much its worth, can the bank ask me to come up with some more cash due to decrease in value?


banks always see the original price (off plan properties)


----------



## gerald.d

Money2Burn said:


> 2 questions as I cannot even sleep (look at the time of posting) since I returned to Dubai after chrismas:
> 
> 1. If my rent (no freehold area, local landlord) has been increased last year and is due for renewal in March 2009, can the landord increase again?
> 2. I own a 1BR in Churchill Towers that I bought for 1.6Mil when it was worth 1.8Mil as per Coliers Int. on a 68% mortgage with DIB.
> Now that no-one really knows how much its worth, can the bank ask me to come up with some more cash due to decrease in value?


Apologies if this comes across as a bit pedantic, but it wasn't actually worth 1.8M.

A property is only worth what someone actually pays for it at the time, to that person.

You bought it for 1.6M. It was worth 1.6M. To you.

Someone may well have _valued_ it for 1.8M, but if no-one bought it at that price, it wasn't worth it. Valuations are meaningless.


----------



## 234sale

1 British pound = 5.25134535 United Arab Emirates dirhams

Crazy..


----------



## peacesells

smussuw said:


> The decree also defines a new formula for lower rent values which allows a proportional increase in rents for 2009. According to the new formula, the increase in property rent will rise in proportion with the drop in 2008 rent value in the average annual rent for the same property.


Guys, if someone has the Arabic version, can you please translate this bit again? I'm sorry, either it is too early in the morning, or I'm dumb - but I can't figure out what that is supposed to mean. 

Let's say my rent is 45K and the Index recommends a rent of 80-90K. I signed the contract in 2006. What are my options come April?

EDIT: Ok so it seems that the deviation range is 25% from the index, therefore, if you rent is outside the range, the price has to be brought just within the range. Not good news for me


----------



## dbxdude

Money2Burn said:


> 2 questions as I cannot even sleep (look at the time of posting) since I returned to Dubai after chrismas:
> 
> 1. If my rent (no freehold area, local landlord) has been increased last year and is due for renewal in March 2009, can the landord increase again?
> 2. I own a 1BR in Churchill Towers that I bought for 1.6Mil when it was worth 1.8Mil as per Coliers Int. on a 68% mortgage with DIB.
> Now that no-one really knows how much its worth, can the bank ask me to come up with some more cash due to decrease in value?


All mortages in Dubai are ON DEMAND, meaning the bank can ask for some or all of the outstanding at anytime. 

It might be wise therefore if you have savings not to have them in the same bank as you have a mortage with. Perhaps not even in the same country if things get really bad. 

It depends on the contract, but you can run it past a lawyer, i think in some of the early ones, if i bank exercises on demand and they seize the property because you dont come up with said amount in 30 days then you dont owe them anything else. 

Remember, when you took the mortage you probably made several cheques, 1 for the full amount of the property, this is so they can put you in jail if it bounces. They never told you that though!

In reality, non of this is unlikely to happen as long as you make all your monthly payments. If it does get that to that point, likely the banks will have other issues to worry about, like the lights not being on!


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> 1 British pound = 5.25134535 United Arab Emirates dirhams
> 
> Crazy..


Not really that crazy. Unless there's a significant rally against the $ over the next couple of days, it's going down.

I've been tracking it this morning, and there has been a very slight strengthening over the last hour (moved from $1.4199 to $1.4211), but I reckon there will be a feelgood factor from the Obama inauguration today that will prevent a serious rally.

I'm still calling it to go to $1.35 this quarter (but to be honest, that could well look optimistic within a couple of weeks).


----------



## dbxdude

yes, dollar strength is very bad for UAE. Everything is so expensive for tourists who all come from europe and UK. Plus any europeans and brits who get any kind of liquidity from their investments immidetly take the money home. Also makes eveyone want to sell since if they have low leverage any loss in property value can be off set by having such strong currency. 

How long can the dollar sustain this strength with such massvie injections of reserves and such huge amounts of new dollars being created? 

Gold got to be a good bet for next 3 years? 

On a positive note goldmans bullish as heck on oil


----------



## smussuw

IISinbadII said:


> No.....its illegal.
> The rent has to remain the same for 2 years.


but then again, from what I understood at least, even if the landlord didn't raise the rent in 2008 he still cannot raise it this year if his rent is up to 25% lower than the rent index, right? I mean the title says that the rise this year is 0%. For example the landlord cannot raise the rent in the first year because of the law and on the 2nd year he needs to refer to the annual decree to see the percentage he can increase his rent into, so unless his rent is more than 25% lower than the average index he still cannot raise the rent this year. So the landlord ends up not raising the rent for 3 years.



peacesells said:


> Guys, if someone has the Arabic version, can you please translate this bit again? I'm sorry, either it is too early in the morning, or I'm dumb - but I can't figure out what that is supposed to mean.
> 
> Let's say my rent is 45K and the Index recommends a rent of 80-90K. I signed the contract in 2006. What are my options come April?


I have the decree in front me. If the rent is X% below the average index then the raise is as follow

0 - 25% = 0% raise
26% to 35% = 5% raise
36% to 45% = 10% raise
46% to 55% = 15% raise

Your rent = 45K
The index average = 85k
Your rent is (100- 45/85 * 100) = 100 - 52.9 = 47.1% below the average index
The landlord can raise the rent by 15%

Hope this helps !


----------



## Imre

dbxdude said:


> yes, dollar strength is very bad for UAE. Everything is so expensive for tourists who all come from europe and UK. Plus any europeans and brits who get any kind of liquidity from their investments immidetly take the money home. Also makes eveyone want to sell since if they have low leverage any loss in property value can be off set by having such strong currency.
> 
> How long can the dollar sustain this strength with such massvie injections of reserves and such huge amounts of new dollars being created?
> 
> Gold got to be a good bet for next 3 years?
> 
> On a positive note goldmans bullish as heck on oil


We will see 1 USD=1 EUR =1 GBP soon.


----------



## peacesells

smussuw said:


> 0 - 25% = 0% raise
> 26% to 25% = 5% raise
> 36% to 45% = 10% raise
> 46% to 55% = 15% raise
> 
> Your rent = 45K
> The index average = 85k
> Your rent is (45/85 * 100) = 52.9% below the average index
> The landlord can raise the rent by 15%
> 
> Hope this helps !


Thanks dude. Is the formula above mentioned in the full document?


----------



## smussuw

^^ I edited the formula a bit so the result is different now (check the edited post). I made it myself so I might be missing something?

It should be:

100 - (the current rent/ the average rent index * 100) = %


----------



## gerald.d

dbxdude said:


> yes, dollar strength is very bad for UAE. Everything is so expensive for tourists who all come from europe and UK. Plus any europeans and brits who get any kind of liquidity from their investments immidetly take the money home. Also makes eveyone want to sell since if they have low leverage any loss in property value can be off set by having such strong currency.
> 
> How long can the dollar sustain this strength with such massvie injections of reserves and such huge amounts of new dollars being created?
> 
> Gold got to be a good bet for next 3 years?
> 
> On a positive note goldmans bullish as heck on oil


I don't have ANY investments, but if I had a few hundred grand knocking about, I'd be holding 50% of it in gold. Not convinced at all by those who are bullish on oil to be honest. I think I'm right in saying that traditionally, oil and gold have tracked relatively constant when compared to the price of oil in any paper currenct (i.e. over the medium/long term the ratio of the price of a barrel of oil to the price of an ounce of gold stayed the same). Clearly, last year oil and gold de-coupled to a pretty dramatic degree.

I don't think so much it's USD strength that's causing this (it's not as if it's doing very well against JPY) , more the pound's weakness. My personal view is that downside for the UK economy is still significantly understated, which is what's driving my thoughts behind where the GBPUSD rate is going. 

Total UK bank balance sheets (BARC, LLOY/HBOS, HSBC, RBS) are around 3 times the size of UK GDP.

I rate the pound's chances of survival over the next 18 months at around 50:50.

(caveat: I've never studied economics, I simply use my eyes, look at what's going on, and reach my own conclusions. In July 2008 though, I did predict a $50 barrel of oil, and £1:$1.50 within 6 months, so make of that what you will.)


/edit

Chart showing gold/oil ratio over the last 30 years or so. It's hard to read, but you can just about make it out:









Note how stable (relatively - compared to how a graph showing the price of either gold or oil as measured in any paper currency) the graph is over the last decade, with an ounce of gold buying you between 6 and 14 barrels of oil over almost the entire timeframe.

Today, an ounce of gold will buy you 24 barrels of crude.


----------



## IISinbadII

peacesells said:


> Let's say my rent is 45K and the Index recommends a rent of 80-90K. I signed the contract in 2006. What are my options come April?(


This means the tenant will complete 3 years in April. You could let tenant go and find a new one.


----------



## bizzybonita

Mohammed: No increase in rents 










Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum (SUPPLIED)



on Tuesday, January 20, 2009

Decree No.1 for 2009, governing rentals in the emirate of Dubai, has been issued by His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE, in his capacity as the Ruler of Dubai.

The new decree, which applies to both residential and non-residential properties, prevents increases in rents during 2009 for tenants who are renewing rental contracts signed in 2008 – as long as the rent value in 2008 was equal to or less by a maximum of 25 per cent than the average rents in the index of the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera).

The decree provides that the landlord will reserve the right to increase rents in cases where properties of similar specifications command rental payments of much higher value on the index than that of the landlord's property. However, the decree sets out guidelines on how to deal with such cases.

Rera earlier unveiled a new index, which shows average rental prices residents can expect to pay for properties in different areas of the emirate.

Director of Dubai Ruler's Court Mohammed Ibrahim Al Shebani, said that this decree aims to curb the continual increases in rentals in Dubai and keep rents at acceptable levels.

He added the new rules seek to bring about parity between landlords and tenants and stabilise the rental market to positively impact the economy of Dubai.

To restrict big increases in rents in properties where tenants pay reasonably lower rents, the decree provides a 25 per cent cushion between actual rents and the average rents in the Rera Rental Index.

The decree brings relief from further increases for a big chunk of the property in the emirate, especially for those rented in the past couple of years during the height of the economic boom.

At the same time, the decree also brings parity in rents for accommodation and commercial properties of similar kinds in the same localities and where rentals vary widely.

http://business24-7.ae/articles/2009/1/pages/01202009_e438ff628a704530a6f327d6a8d36d5b.aspx


----------



## smussuw

^^ That's true, if he could find any :banana:

They didn't deal with this bug 

They should've added a clause that force landlords to keep tenants for one more year :laugh:


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> ^^ I edited the formula a bit so the result is different now (check the edited post). I made it myself so I might be missing something?
> 
> It should be:
> 
> 100 - (the current rent/ the average rent index * 100) = %


Seriously, they should hire someone from this board to work at RERA.


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> but then again, from what I understood at least, even if the landlord didn't raise the rent in 2008 he still cannot raise it this year if his rent is up to 25% lower than the rent index, right? I mean the title says that the rise this year is 0%. For example *the landlord cannot raise the rent in the first year because of the law* and on the 2nd year he needs to refer to the annual decree to see the percentage he can increase his rent into, so unless his rent is more than 25% lower than the average index he still cannot raise the rent this year. So the landlord ends up not raising the rent for 3 years.
> 
> I have the decree in front me. If the rent is X% below the average index then the raise is as follow
> 
> 0 - 25% = 0% raise
> 26% to 35% = 5% raise
> 36% to 45% = 10% raise
> 46% to 55% = 15% raise
> 
> Your rent = 45K
> The index average = 85k
> Your rent is (100- 45/85 * 100) = 100 - 52.9 = 47.1% below the average index
> The landlord can raise the rent by 15%
> 
> Hope this helps !


There is no law that would prevent a landlord to ask whatever rent he wishes in the 1st year. 

And you are right. Actually this decree, if we have understood properly, cancels the previous law which prohibits rent increase for 2 years. According to this decree landlord can now increase the rent for the 2nd year as per the formula you have given.


----------



## peacesells

IISinbadII said:


> This means the tenant will complete 3 years in April. You could let tenant go and find a new one.


I'm the tenant


----------



## IISinbadII

peacesells said:


> I'm the tenant


So ask the landlord to kick you out!!!!!! :lol: :bash:


----------



## smussuw

IISinbadII said:


> There is no law that would prevent a landlord to ask whatever rent he wishes in the 1st year.
> 
> Actually this decree, if we have understood properly, cancells the previous law which prohibits rent increase for 2 years. According to this decree landlord can now increase the rent for the 2nd year as per the formula you have given.


This cannot be true. As per the law, a decree will be issued annualy to decide the rent increase _when applicable_. The fact that landlords cannot raise the rent on the 2nd year is irrelevant. The decree came to compliment the law and not cancel it. If this clause was to be canceled a new law should be issued !

of course that is only if this "no rent raise in 2 years" clause is part of the law !


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Its a mess again. isn't it. 

This law clearly states that if your rent is 25% under the index you can raise the rent in the second year (according to the formula). So what will happen to the no rent increase in the 2nd year law? That law is gone, its history.


----------



## iced

dbxdude said:


> yes, dollar strength is very bad for UAE. Everything is so expensive for tourists who all come from europe and UK. Plus any europeans and brits who get any kind of liquidity from their investments immidetly take the money home. Also makes eveyone want to sell since if they have low leverage any loss in property value can be off set by having such strong currency.
> 
> How long can the dollar sustain this strength with such massvie injections of reserves and such huge amounts of new dollars being created?
> 
> Gold got to be a good bet for next 3 years?
> 
> On a positive note goldmans bullish as heck on oil


agree gold and oil will be a good bet as printing notes goes into overdrive.

For people in the uae inflation will be reduced and prices will fall altough imports will be more expensive. There will be further pressure on prices for property and both rents and prices will fall dramatically. 

Money supply has also been reduced so this will also re enforce the above scenario..


----------



## smussuw

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ Its a mess again. isn't it.
> 
> This law clearly states that if your rent is 25% under the index you can raise the rent in the second year (according to the formula). So what will happen to the no rent increase in the 2nd year law? That law is gone, its history.


Okay, I reread the law again and u are right. So we know now that the "2 years no increase" is not applicable any more.

It is clear to me now.

My question is this "2 years no increase" is part of the decree or the law? If it was part of 2007 decree then it would be canceled with it. If it was part of the law, the law needs to be modified.

btw, anyone whose rent is 56% or more less than the renting index can increase the rent by 20%.


----------



## iced

Imre said:


> We will see 1 USD=1 EUR =1 GBP soon.


1 euro= 1 gbp yes but 1usd=1 gbp wont happen as the US will continue as under Bush economically and unfortunately with its foreign policy. Then the dollar will plummet back to at 1.60. All the economies are in trouble. Dollar strength to wane by the end of summer or even sooner


----------



## Imre

iced said:


> 1 euro= 1 gbp yes but 1usd=1 gbp wont happen as the US will continue as under Bush economically and unfortunately with its foreign policy. Then the dollar will plummet back to at 1.60. All the economies are in trouble. Dollar strength to wane by the end of summer or even sooner


EUR-GBP 0.9142 now

so why not?

JPY not too good

EUR-USD 1.2955 -0.0113 -0.86% 
USD-JPY 90.3800 -0.2695 -0.30% 
GBP-USD 1.4165 -0.0254 -1.76%


----------



## iced

IISinbadII said:


> There is no law that would prevent a landlord to ask whatever rent he wishes in the 1st year.
> 
> And you are right. Actually this decree, if we have understood properly, cancels the previous law which prohibits rent increase for 2 years. According to this decree landlord can now increase the rent for the 2nd year as per the formula you have given.


This law is a bit late and probably will have minimal effect as rent increases will only occur with a few contracts. Now the problem will be rent decreases which is good news for tenants and hopefully rents will return to normal levels and not these ridiculuos overinflated levels.


----------



## nisha

Money2Burn said:


> 2 questions as I cannot even sleep (look at the time of posting) since I returned to Dubai after chrismas:
> 
> 1. If my rent (no freehold area, local landlord) has been increased last year and is due for renewal in March 2009, can the landord increase again?
> 2. I own a 1BR in Churchill Towers that I bought for 1.6Mil when it was worth 1.8Mil as per Coliers Int. on a 68% mortgage with DIB.
> Now that no-one really knows how much its worth, can the bank ask me to come up with some more cash due to decrease in value?


No, the bank will not ask you top up your equity just yet.


----------



## Goss

1 GBP = 5.121 AED 
Time to sell and get money back to the UK

What do you think Gerald?


----------



## Alt-Tab

abf said:


> Can someone be so kind to let me know where to find this Index.
> Thanks


http://www.rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/jsp/template.jsp?pageID=50014&&lang=0



Studio 1Bed 2Bed 3Bed 4Bed
110-118 125-165 150-260 280-320 330-350 Dubai Tower / Down Town
80-90 110-130 168-180 200-260 280-320 Greens
80-90 110-150 150-180 220-300 280-400 Dubai Marina
45-55 65-75 85-90 *** *** International City
80-90 100-120 140-150 240-260 *** Green Community
80-90 110-150 150-180 220-300 280-400 Jumeirah Beach Residence
*** 140-210 210-240 270-320 *** Jumeirah Palm
75-95 120-135 170-220 240-350 380-400 JLT
*** 90-95 100-115 130-140 *** Gardens
70-75 95-105 130-145 *** *** Discovery Gardens
70-80 90-95 130-135 200-240 *** Dubai Investment Park
130-150 170-190 230-280 280-320 *** Dubai Financial Centre
55-70 95-125 130-140 150-170 *** Dubai Silicon Oasis


Please excuse the poor formatting

AltTab


----------



## gerald.d

Goss said:


> 1 GBP = 5.121 AED
> Everybody sell and get money back to the UK
> 
> What do you think Gerald?


It will go lower. I've got to be honest though - I didn't think it would happen this fast. 

And I certainly wouldn't convert any more than I absolutely had to into sterling.


----------



## Goss

gerald.d said:


> It will go lower. I've got to be honest though - I didn't think it would happen this fast.
> 
> And I certainly wouldn't convert any more than I absolutely had to into sterling.


Surely a good idea would be to take advantage of the weak pound?
We are seeing signs of recovery in the US- do you not think the UK will follow and the pound will grow stronger?


----------



## gerald.d

Goss said:


> Surely a good idea would be to take advantage of the weak pound?
> We are seeing signs of recovery in the US- do you not think the UK will follow and the pound will grow stronger?


Nope. 

I actually think we may be witnessing the end of the pound. 

The UK economy has a lot further to fall.


----------



## Goss

gerald.d said:


> Nope.
> 
> I actually think we may be witnessing the end of the pound.
> 
> The UK economy has a lot further to fall.


So what would you do if you were sitting on a lot of Pounds in the UK?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Goss said:


> 1 GBP = 5.121 AED
> Time to sell and get money back to the UK
> 
> What do you think Gerald?


Good time to sell if you have UK debts to pay.


----------



## Goss

Dubai_Steve said:


> Good time to sell if you have UK debts to pay.


I havnt got any debts but my gut feeling is that Dubai could completely crash (unlikely but possible).I just feel money is safer in the UK despite the problems there.Be honest guys-where would you feel safer with your money at the moment?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I am worried what will happen if Nakheel go bankrupt with half finished palms everywhere. Also Dubailand is as good as cancelled so falling tourism share ahead.


----------



## Freestyler

Goss said:


> Be honest guys-where would you feel safer with your money at the moment?


Abu Dhabi


----------



## i love dubai

deleted


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Coolio said on celeb big brother he wants to get out of dollars and buy in Dubai and Saudi because the Amero is coming


----------



## bizzybonita

Who's amero BTW ?


----------



## skdubai

me transferring all my money back home to India, to one of those ultra cautious govt. banks... They are so friggin conservative with their investments, there is no chance of them going bust. They don't provide the best customer service, but they deliver where it counts. and at the end of the day, i will go back there, so better to have it there than here. 

But the best thing to do is just to invest in physical assets i guess (Gold, Silver, property (without speculating), etc.,)


----------



## Anjam

bizzybonita said:


> Who's amero BTW ?


^^ North American Currency Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amero


----------



## 234sale

I prefer barter system,, 50 camels for that landcruiser...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ so in that case we need a new type of rental index :lol:


----------



## skdubai

so abt 50 camels for a 1 BR in JLT then????


----------



## makerian

skdubai said:


> But the best thing to do is just to invest in physical assets i guess (Gold, Silver, property (without speculating), etc.,)


Nope. Best thing to do is buy a farm. Gold/silver won't feed you. :banana:


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

gerald.d said:


> US consulate in Dubai closed in response to "security information".
> 
> That won't help matters.


Source???


----------



## mrobbie

IISinbadII said:


> Sell to who?
> There are no buyers! hno:


I think there are some buyers out there wanting to get involved especially with the lower prices. The problem is that these buyers cannot get finance for purchase.


----------



## TDemirel

Old Town Lovin... said:


> Source???


http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=240748&Sn=WORL&IssueID=31307


----------



## TDemirel

IISinbadII said:


> Sell to who?
> There are no buyers! hno:


I disagree

There are buyers.
I'm daily receiving 2-3 phone calls for my flat in Al Seef 2, which I pulled off from market 2 months back.
BTW, it can be the same buyer searching all around, which I can not judge.

The problem is, the buyer(s) are only looking for desperate sales. 
Most probably they are searching same flat of mine around 800-1000 AED/sqft and they are thinking that all the flats in Seef are valued same.
The thing that they don't know the guys that are selling with these rates are the ones who could not make the final payment (70 to 80%) and these distress sales will not last forever.

Other point is, we are saying there is no finance. I am chased by Mashreqbank to provide me a mortgage for a completed property (villa) upto 80% and I even been offered with a top up, in this climate. 
IMHO, there is finance, but only for completed properties.

Last things, In these days I'm listing a Palmera Type C for sale of a friend with Betterhomes (by paying their service charge - AED 900).
This will be my true experience to see if I will receive any offers and how much.

Regards


----------



## iced

skdubai said:


> The whole idea of the rental index depends on RERA magically knowing what the market value of a property is, this is impossible to tell at the best of times, even more so now. I think it is a bad idea, let the free market rule and provide protection to tenants and landlords through legislation.


Very valid point. RERA cannot give the average rental since the sample size collected is not mentioned. Knowing RERA it was probably 5 peoples rent from each district. They need to be more transparent so that people can take them seriously. They are trying to build a database of tenancy contracts but this going to take a while


----------



## peacesells

TDemirel said:


> I disagree
> 
> There are buyers.
> I'm daily receiving 2-3 phone calls for my flat in Al Seef 2, which I pulled off from market 2 months back.
> BTW, it can be the same buyer searching all around, which I can not judge.
> 
> The problem is, the buyer(s) are only looking for desperate sales.
> Most probably they are searching same flat of mine around 800-1000 AED/sqft and they are thinking that all the flats in Seef are valued same.
> The thing that they don't know the guys that are selling with these rates are the ones who could not make the final payment (70 to 80%) and these distress sales will not last forever.
> 
> Other point is, we are saying there is no finance. I am chased by Mashreqbank to provide me a mortgage for a completed property (villa) upto 80% and I even been offered with a top up, in this climate.
> IMHO, there is finance, but only for completed properties.
> 
> Last things, In these days I'm listing a Palmera Type C for sale of a friend with Betterhomes (by paying their service charge - AED 900).
> This will be my true experience to see if I will receive any offers and how much.
> 
> Regards


I agree. Buyers are there. But if you're putting up your property for sale at anything resembling 2008 prices, you won't get any calls.


----------



## TDemirel

*Emaar?*

It looks like also Emaar is in trouble.

As you know they recently did not use the buy back option for their shares, saying that we prefer to keep cash.
Today I read that they are planning to sell 4 bn USD of bonds.

Any opinion, are they short on cash?


----------



## tehsin123

TDemirel said:


> It looks like also Emaar is in trouble.
> 
> As you know they recently did not use the buy back option for their shares, saying that we prefer to keep cash.
> Today I read that they are planning to sell 4 bn USD of bonds.
> 
> Any opinion, are they short on cash?


Emaar stock price dropped more than 10% today. Latest quote 1.86 as of now.
Real trouble :-(


----------



## luv2bebrown

Anybody know of any investor clubs in Dubai?

I am looking for investors for a short-term (NON-REAL ESTATE) related project.

the arabian business angels group only invest in startups with long term growth plans. banks also will not provide business loans to new startups - so both these options are out.

How can I find individual high net worth investors?


----------



## nri-hotels

tehsin123 said:


> Emaar stock price dropped more than 10% today. Latest quote 1.86 as of now.
> Real trouble :-(


Stock price is a reflection of the market's view of a company, but technically it should be the value of the company's asset value and earnings. Either Emaar is terribly undervalued, OR Dubai's property values are in the $hits.


----------



## nri-hotels

luv2bebrown said:


> Anybody know of any investor clubs in Dubai?
> 
> I am looking for investors for a short-term (NON-REAL ESTATE) related project.
> 
> the arabian business angels group only invest in startups with long term growth plans. banks also will not provide business loans to new startups - so both these options are out.
> 
> How can I find individual *high net worth investors*?


You people with cash ?


----------



## skdubai

Self fulfilling prophecy isn't it? people feel bad about the market, take their money out and turn even good markets to the bad side....


----------



## peacesells

skdubai said:


> Self fulfilling prophecy isn't it? people feel bad about the market, take their money out and turn even good markets to the bad side....


Perception = reality. That's what the head of Lehman Brothers couldn't get into his head as he screwed up negotiations with the people who wanted to help them out.


----------



## Arno Salzl

TDemirel said:


> It looks like also Emaar is in trouble.
> 
> As you know they recently did not use the buy back option for their shares, saying that we prefer to keep cash.
> Today I read that they are planning to sell 4 bn USD of bonds.
> 
> Any opinion, are they short on cash?


Emaar share is 1,86 AED as we speak, heading to zero. Arabtech is losing 10% EVERY DAY of the week. The reason is very simple: their assets (land bank, buildings) are not much worth; no refinancing is possible + customers stopped payments.

Emaar, Nakheel and UP are all dreaming of a bond emission and speaking with potential takers (AD!!).

The financial crisis hurts real estate developpers worldwide, but nowhere else they lost 90% of their value.


----------



## Arno Salzl

Ajman Bank in serious trouble


----------



## tehsin123

Arno Salzl said:


> Ajman Bank in serious trouble


what is your source and details??


----------



## Arno Salzl

tehsin123 said:


> what is your source and details??


massive insider selling (http://www.sharewadi.com/uae-company-details.php?company_ticker=AJMANBANK); -10% today; rumors at the DFM.


----------



## smussuw

am I the only one who thinks that what is happening in Dubai Financial Market has nothing to do with the crisis !


----------



## speculator

Money2Burn said:


> I am not sure if I can follow you.
> If you would have bought a 1BR for 700K Dhs last year, it cost you around 100K GBP.
> Now if you sell it at a exchange rate of 1DHS=1GBP, you end up with a profit of 600K GBP.
> 
> What am I missing here that gives you nightmares?:nuts:


My commitment on payment schedules on various projects


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

Its not just Dubai or the UAE... When will everyone wake up and realize this is a worldwide issue... There is nothing anyone of us can do... 

Royal Bank of Scotland Group Pl(NYSE: RBS)
Last Trade: 3.33 
*52wk Range: 2.86 - 163.122 *

Citigroup Inc(NYSE: C)
Last Trade: 2.80 
*52wk Range: 2.80 - 29.73 *

If the Ajman Bank or Amlak or ADCB or NBD tank or fail... someone else will step in... If Emaar and Nakheel fails... Our properties will be managed by the newly formed Nakmaar Real Estate Co... 

*Its stopped raining, the sun is out, weather is good... so go enjoy your life... *


----------



## Anjam

rexdmx said:


> short selling was not to blame. it was just an instrument used to profit on the downside. the assets had to be bad fundamentally.


Short selling can cause the downside. Fundamentals go out of the window.


----------



## rexdmx

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> A prime example of someone who does not understand what short selling is.


a prime example of someone who is still pissed off about his country. obama is now in charge. shouldn't you be happy?


----------



## rexdmx

Anjam said:


> Short selling can cause the downside. Fundamentals go out of the window.


an abuse of an instrument is not enough to cause a downside... besides what is your definition of a downside


----------



## Imre

peacesells said:


> Speaking of Nakheel, anyone heard anything about The Forbidden City? The word on the street is that it's cancelled.


I thought it was already cancelled last year.


----------



## True Blue

^^Stop buttin in Imre^^ Where is your manners?:lol:



rexdmx said:


> an abuse of an instrument is not enough to cause a downside... besides what is your definition of a downside



It's the side of toast without the butter and jam on it! 

Unless you drop it:bash:


----------



## Imre

:banana:^^

sorry , didnt cancell , just very slow now:lol:


----------



## Goss

1 GBP = 5.042 AED

Hate to say it Gerald but it looks as though your prediction was correct.
I wouldnt mind so much if the Dollar was strong in World terms but it isnt!


----------



## iced

smussuw said:


> am I the only one who thinks that what is happening in Dubai Financial Market has nothing to do with the crisis !


Partly correct. DFM was declining before the crisis but declines have accelerated due to the crisis. Only consolation is that DFM stocks will recover or start to rise before many other markets. Unfortunately even with good rises towards the end of the year, i will still be making huge losses. Dont think i will be able to recover from this for at least 10 years.

Also lack of real transparency and regulation are further causes of the declines along with speculative money leaving the country.


----------



## makerian

If markets are easily accessible for investment then the "price" of instruments, be it equities, currencies, futures or even real estate, are susceptible to excesses. This has been the case for centuries. 

In times of excesses prices move well away from any "fair value" of the instrument. And at such times, fundamentals seem to go out the window. Cases in point are numerous and make interesting reading. A few are the Nasdaq's rise to 5000, the IPO craze in the GCC and oil's rise to $150. These bubbles are very easy to spot for any seasoned investor who has been paying attention over the years and for any undergraduate student who has read financial history.

Fundamentals can be ignored for a while but eventually through some catalyst or the other they will return and determine the course of prices. The problem with "investing" in currencies and commodity futures (gold & silver) or even with shorting stocks is that you may be completely accurate about your perception of the fundamentals that determine the value of these instruments, but market price may move in a totally opposite direction for a very long period of time. E.g. The US ran huge trade deficits for a number of years during which the dollar did nothing but strengthen. Eventually though fundamentals ruled and it started its decline. Another example is that tech stocks were seriously overvalued when Nasdaq was 4000 (on its way up) but if you had shorted stocks you would have probably folded well before it got to 5000 and started its decline. 

Trading financial instruments (any kind) for short-term gain does not provide consistent and sustainable returns over the long run. There is a whole ridiculous industry out there trying to sell books, software, seminars to gullible individuals that make them believe that trading financial markets will earn them riches. Do it long enough and you won't even break even with all the brokerage costs. (There may of course be place in a portfolio to expose yourself to other currencies/ commodities for diversification purposes)

An investor (by definition, long-term) is concerned with fundamentals. Do your research (borrowing from HT, I'm sure), make few moves but smart moves. Watching the currency rates and stock market updates everyday is not necessary for achieving financial independence. Watching them every hour is surely a waste of time.

Good luck to all!!


----------



## iced

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> A prime example of someone who does not understand what short selling is.


With the current negative sentiment short selling could be partially responsible for the falls.

Another reason is a distinct lack of buyers. Hwoever the banks are falling cos they have too many liabilities which are difficult to correctly assess. RBS results yesterday confirmed that. The mark to market rule is also partly responsible.

So a lot of the prices movements are technically based. However fundamentals are weak as well so its a case of a bit of both.

The lack of credit is in my opinion the biggest reason for the declines and along with the current negative sentiment expect further falls.

I will continue to hold my portfolio which was pretty large containing mainly UK bank stocks and US technology companies. My main UAE holding was Emaar. As you have probably guessed i managed to turn my large fortune into a very small fortune. 

Funnily enough same thing is now happenin on my property portfolio.

Its a good job i enjoy working cos it looks like i will continue to do so for a very long time.


----------



## iced

makerian said:


> If markets are easily accessible for investment then the "price" of instruments, be it equities, currencies, futures or even real estate, are susceptible to excesses. This has been the case for centuries.
> 
> In times of excesses prices move well away from any "fair value" of the instrument. And at such times, fundamentals seem to go out the window. Cases in point are numerous and make interesting reading. A few are the Nasdaq's rise to 5000, the IPO craze in the GCC and oil's rise to $150. These bubbles are very easy to spot for any seasoned investor who has been paying attention over the years and for any undergraduate student who has read financial history.
> 
> Fundamentals can be ignored for a while but eventually through some catalyst or the other they will return and determine the course of prices. The problem with "investing" in currencies and commodity futures (gold & silver) or even with shorting stocks is that you may be completely accurate about your perception of the fundamentals that determine the value of these instruments, but market price may move in a totally opposite direction for a very long period of time. E.g. The US ran huge trade deficits for a number of years during which the dollar did nothing but strengthen. Eventually though fundamentals ruled and it started its decline. Another example is that tech stocks were seriously overvalued when Nasdaq was 4000 (on its way up) but if you had shorted stocks you would have probably folded well before it got to 5000 and started its decline.
> 
> Trading financial instruments (any kind) for short-term gain does not provide consistent and sustainable returns over the long run. There is a whole ridiculous industry out there trying to sell books, software, seminars to gullible individuals that make them believe that trading financial markets will earn them riches. Do it long enough and you won't even break even with all the brokerage costs. (There may of course be place in a portfolio to expose yourself to other currencies/ commodities for diversification purposes)
> 
> An investor (by definition, long-term) is concerned with fundamentals. Do your research (borrowing from HT, I'm sure), make few moves but smart moves. Watching the currency rates and stock market updates everyday is not necessary for achieving financial independence. Watching them every hour is surely a waste of time.
> 
> Good luck to all!!


yes some great points. Research has shown that it is profitable to be a momentum trader. However only a very few make money from this strategy taking money from the majority, myself included who dont have the ability or discipline to exploit this. very similar to flippin property in dubai. Get it wrong and u r in rabbit headlight territory.


----------



## Richard Head

makerian said:


> In times of excesses prices move well away from any "fair value" of the instrument. And at such times, fundamentals seem to go out the window.
> 
> Fundamentals can be ignored for a while but eventually through some catalyst or the other they will return and determine the course of prices.
> 
> Eventually though fundamentals rule............


Great post Makerian, and apologies for hacking it to death, just selecting the bits that are very relevant to my question, which is..................

How do you see this in relation to the specifics of the Dubai property market? Clearly the analogies you make fit well to where we find ourselves today, and if as you believe (and I tend to agree) that fundamentals will still determine the long term value of our investments, how do you see this playing out over the medium to long term? There are many extreme views expressed in this forum, for me personally I still believe the long term is healthy, in comparing property values here with comparable cities (assuming that the worst case scenario of Dubai becoming the biggest white elephant in history doesn't happen). Since you clearly have a great understanding of underlying investment principles how does this all fit together in your opinion?

Thanks


Richard


----------



## Ben40

This news won't help..

REUTERS - The U.S. consulate in the cosmopolitan Gulf Arab business hub of Dubai closed to the public for security reasons on Wednesday, it said without giving details of any threats.

"Based on security information specific to the consulate general provided by Dubai authorities, the U.S. consulate general in Dubai will be closed to the public on January 21, 2009," the consulate said in a statement on its website.


----------



## Anjam

rexdmx said:


> an abuse of an instrument is not enough to cause a downside


^^ Then why was it banned?


----------



## FWIW

^^Shorting has been arround for as long as there have been markets. On its own it is not the work of the devil and actually helps keep markets healthy (as Warren Buffet has stated).










Read more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_selling

It was banned for certain uk banks because Gorgon Clown has no real idea and Labour need to be seen to be doing something/anything. Actually by doing that in Oct, he may have saved one bank from doom and into the arms of another. But he didn't save the world i'm afraid!


----------



## kuttika

*postponed for cancelled*

[The new term in the market /developer language is postponed/delayed instead of saying cancelled because they need not return investors money this way and keep it for as long as they want, what is the point, it is going to lie in escrow account (assumed) and not useful to anyone.....
can this happen legally, if a project is termed as delayed or postponed what is the time limit for returning the investors money......can anyone comment on this please

QUOTE=Imre;31078088]:banana:^^

sorry , didnt cancell , just very slow now:lol:[/QUOTE]


----------



## sam69

*Global woes hit Dubai's fragile economy*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7839347.stm

BBC NEWS - 22/01/09


----------



## rexdmx

FWIW said:


> ^^Shorting has been arround for as long as there have been markets. On its own it is not the work of the devil and actually helps keep markets healthy (as Warren Buffet has stated).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more here:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_selling
> 
> It was banned for certain uk banks because Gorgon Clown has no real idea and Labour need to be seen to be doing something/anything. Actually by doing that in Oct, he may have saved one bank from doom and into the arms of another. But he didn't save the world i'm afraid!



simple and to the point


----------



## tehsin123

*World News: U.A.E. Tightens Press Rules Amid Financial Downturn*

World News: U.A.E. Tightens Press Rules Amid Financial Downturn
By Mirna Sleiman
298 words
22 January 2009
The Wall Street Journal
A9
English
(Copyright (c) 2009, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)

DUBAI -- The government of the United Arab Emirates is tightening its media laws amid a slew of negative headlines about the country's economy and corporate scandals in Dubai.

The Persian Gulf state's Federal National Council passed the draft of a new media law Tuesday, replacing the 28-year-old Publications Law. The draft was first presented over a year ago. It now needs to be approved by the cabinet and U.A.E. President Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan.

The law threatens to fine anyone who knowingly publishes information that damages the U.A.E.'s reputation or harms its economy. Potential fines range from 50,000 U.A.E. dirhams ($13,600) for minor violations to as much as one million dirhams for criticizing the ruling family.

While the proposed law protects journalists from imprisonment for carrying out their duties, the government plans to fine journalists up to 200,000 dirhams if they name suspects under investigation in the emirate, according to the draft.

The law follows a slowdown in the country's economy and corporate scandals involving top executives in banks and real-estate companies in Dubai.

"The new laws do nothing to advance the cause of press freedom in the U.A.E.," said Frank Kane, former business editor of the U.K.'s Observer newspaper and now an independent media consultant in the U.A.E.

Officials close to the government played down concerns it would crimp media freedoms. "News agencies and reporters need not to worry as long as they're doing a professional job," said Abdulatif Al Sayegh, chief executive officer at government-owned Arab Media Group.


----------



## FWIW

sam69 said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7839347.stm
> 
> BBC NEWS - 22/01/09


If anyone in the Dubai/UAE government/ruling families is reading this forum, please help the unemployed construction workers and let's work together to show the world that Dubai is THE place to be.


----------



## sam69

FWIW said:


> If anyone in the Dubai/UAE government/ruling families is reading this forum, please help the unemployed construction workers and let's work together to show the world that Dubai is THE place to be.


:applause::applause::applause:


----------



## gerald.d

tehsin123 said:


> World News: U.A.E. Tightens Press Rules Amid Financial Downturn
> By Mirna Sleiman
> 298 words
> 22 January 2009
> The Wall Street Journal
> A9
> English
> (Copyright (c) 2009, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)
> 
> DUBAI -- The government of the United Arab Emirates is tightening its media laws amid a slew of negative headlines about the country's economy and corporate scandals in Dubai.
> 
> The Persian Gulf state's Federal National Council passed the draft of a new media law Tuesday, replacing the 28-year-old Publications Law. The draft was first presented over a year ago. It now needs to be approved by the cabinet and U.A.E. President Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan.
> 
> The law threatens to fine anyone who knowingly publishes information that damages the U.A.E.'s reputation or harms its economy. Potential fines range from 50,000 U.A.E. dirhams ($13,600) for minor violations to as much as one million dirhams for criticizing the ruling family.
> 
> While the proposed law protects journalists from imprisonment for carrying out their duties, the government plans to fine journalists up to 200,000 dirhams if they name suspects under investigation in the emirate, according to the draft.
> 
> The law follows a slowdown in the country's economy and corporate scandals involving top executives in banks and real-estate companies in Dubai.
> 
> "The new laws do nothing to advance the cause of press freedom in the U.A.E.," said Frank Kane, former business editor of the U.K.'s Observer newspaper and now an independent media consultant in the U.A.E.
> 
> Officials close to the government played down concerns it would crimp media freedoms. "News agencies and reporters need not to worry as long as they're doing a professional job," said Abdulatif Al Sayegh, chief executive officer at government-owned Arab Media Group.


I wonder if the same law will be applied to disgruntled investors' posts on internet forums?


----------



## peacesells

tehsin123 said:


> DUBAI -- The government of the United Arab Emirates is tightening its media laws amid a slew of negative headlines about the country's economy and corporate scandals in Dubai.
> 
> The Persian Gulf state's Federal National Council passed the draft of a new media law Tuesday, replacing the 28-year-old Publications Law. The draft was first presented over a year ago. It now needs to be approved by the cabinet and U.A.E. President Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan.
> 
> The law threatens to fine anyone who knowingly publishes information that damages the U.A.E.'s reputation or harms its economy. Potential fines range from 50,000 U.A.E. dirhams ($13,600) for minor violations to as much as one million dirhams for criticizing the ruling family.
> 
> While the proposed law protects journalists from imprisonment for carrying out their duties, the government plans to fine journalists up to 200,000 dirhams if they name suspects under investigation in the emirate, according to the draft.
> 
> The law follows a slowdown in the country's economy and corporate scandals involving top executives in banks and real-estate companies in Dubai.
> 
> "The new laws do nothing to advance the cause of press freedom in the U.A.E.," said Frank Kane, former business editor of the U.K.'s Observer newspaper and now an independent media consultant in the U.A.E.
> 
> Officials close to the government played down concerns it would crimp media freedoms. "News agencies and reporters need not to worry as long as they're doing a professional job," said Abdulatif Al Sayegh, chief executive officer at government-owned Arab Media Group.


Oh wow, sounds like something North Korea would come up with. I can't believe the rulers are so high and mighty that they think they are above all criticism. If anything, as a ruler, you should listen to what the people have to say - good or bad - not punish people for speaking their minds.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Haven't I been saying that from the beginning. But believe me, you don't want them to listen to what people have to say. It will not be good for the majority living in the country !

Anyway, this is a pathetic journalism. 1) This new law has nothing to do with the crisis 2) the law banned distributing misleading and wrong information, it doesn't say anything about damaging the UAE reputation (as far as I remember)

Edit: I found the draft and pathetically it does but it restrict it to the ones who intentionally campaign to damage the UAE reputation. Very chewable clause, I don't know how they think they'd apply that hno:


----------



## London2Manila

Am I right in thinking that all the adverts on betterhomes site assume service charges are paid by the landlord ? 

Just trying to get a handle on net yields?

In the Marina and JLT, what is the range of dirhams that prices have collapsed to ?

Is ENI, (Emirates National Investment), solid as a rock financially, as far as anyone knows ?

Thanking you.


----------



## Hanna

kuttika said:


> [The new term in the market /developer language is postponed/delayed instead of saying cancelled because they need not return investors money this way and keep it for as long as they want, what is the point, it is going to lie in escrow account (assumed) and not useful to anyone.....
> can this happen legally, if a project is termed as delayed or postponed what is the time limit for returning the investors money......can anyone comment on this please
> 
> QUOTE=Imre;31078088]:banana:^^
> 
> sorry , didnt cancell , just very slow now:lol:


[/QUOTE]

Hi


You will find out that a lot of developers were exempt from the Escrow laws so any money they got is lying in there bank acummulating interest.The nice people at RERA did this for Damac for example.Don't ask me why only RERA knows why they did this for them.I think you can read between the lines why but I will not speculate it attracts to many detractors to be on my case again.:cheers:


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

gerald.d said:


> Try checking your facts before chucking around baseless insults.


*The U.S. consulate in Dubai was closed Wednesday to public business after a security alert from local authorities.*

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE50K1IB20090121

GFC Comment: On January 20, 2009 Dubai's security forces detained a Sudanese man following an anonymous telephone tip that he was planning "some kind of action" against the American consulate. After questioning and interrogation, police claim no apparent plot was uncovered and believe there is no direct evidence of a threat against the consulate or any other targets in Dubai. The United States is presently reviewing
the security situation and is expected to resume normal operations on January 22, 2009. The trimming of services at the consulate is likely only precautionary, as there is no concrete evidence pointing to an imminent attack against the consulate.

hno:hno:hno:hno:hno:


----------



## biyadoo

tehsin123 said:


> World News: U.A.E. Tightens Press Rules Amid Financial Downturn
> By Mirna Sleiman
> 298 words
> 22 January 2009
> The Wall Street Journal
> A9
> English
> (Copyright (c) 2009, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)
> 
> DUBAI -- The government of the United Arab Emirates is tightening its media laws amid a slew of negative headlines about the country's economy and corporate scandals in Dubai.
> 
> The Persian Gulf state's Federal National Council passed the draft of a new media law Tuesday, replacing the 28-year-old Publications Law. The draft was first presented over a year ago. It now needs to be approved by the cabinet and U.A.E. President Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan.
> 
> The law threatens to fine anyone who knowingly publishes information that damages the U.A.E.'s reputation or harms its economy. Potential fines range from 50,000 U.A.E. dirhams ($13,600) for minor violations to as much as one million dirhams for criticizing the ruling family.
> 
> While the proposed law protects journalists from imprisonment for carrying out their duties, the government plans to fine journalists up to 200,000 dirhams if they name suspects under investigation in the emirate, according to the draft.
> 
> The law follows a slowdown in the country's economy and corporate scandals involving top executives in banks and real-estate companies in Dubai.
> 
> "The new laws do nothing to advance the cause of press freedom in the U.A.E.," said Frank Kane, former business editor of the U.K.'s Observer newspaper and now an independent media consultant in the U.A.E.
> 
> Officials close to the government played down concerns it would crimp media freedoms. "News agencies and reporters need not to worry as long as they're doing a professional job," said Abdulatif Al Sayegh, chief executive officer at government-owned Arab Media Group.


^^ I don't usually make strong comments on financial / social issues on Skyscrapercity forums, but I really think this is bad news. The economy might slump, some developers might cheat, house prices might crash... But attempting to hide the truth shows how bad things really are. This is not the right way to handle problems.


----------



## Mistermark

biyadoo said:


> ^^ I don't usually make strong comments on financial / social issues on Skyscrapercity forums, but I really think this is bad news. The economy might slump, some developers might cheat, house prices might crash... But attempting to hide the truth shows how bad things really are. This is not the right way to handle problems.


I agree. The article states that "The law threatens to fine anyone who knowingly publishes information that damages the U.A.E.'s reputation or harms its economy". It's my view that some of the more fatuous puff pieces, along the lines of "UAE not in recession", "Dubai property market bounce-back" are actually the ones damaging the country's reputation and harming its economy, by making it look as if those in power don't actually understand the seriousness of the situation and, whether through complacency or arrogance, are failing to do what's necessary to improve the situation.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ does this apply to online media as well


----------



## jixline

^^ only government approved papers from wat i read in Al Bayan, but smussuw might know better


----------



## smussuw

^^ It applies to all media activities including online media, TV channels, magazines, etc, that are based in the UAE, including free zones.

Hope Sheikh Mohammad steps in and prove that he really support freedom of speech and change the law.


----------



## biyadoo

^^ My point is that this is not going to solve any problems, it never has, anywhere else... It's just going to scare the investors even more.


----------



## tehsin123

biyadoo said:


> ^^ My point is that this is not going to solve any problems, it never has, anywhere else... It's just going to scare the investors even more.


Actually this gives a message that everything may not be right as only good news will come out while bad news will be hidden.


----------



## nri-hotels

The recent measures against media is just temporary... just until they find the right answer to reply..LOL


----------



## tehsin123

wondering how will they regulate foreign media, everything is on the internet these days e.g ft.com, wsg.com, bbc.com etc


----------



## biyadoo

^^ Even if things are bad, some people might think it will get better in the future and decide to invest. But if the information is one-sided and not reliable, how can anyone know?


----------



## gerald.d

smussuw said:


> ^^ It applies to all media activities including online media, TV channels, magazines, etc, that are based in the UAE, including free zones.
> 
> Hope Sheikh Mohammad steps in and prove that he really support freedom of speech and change the law.


Can he can over-rule federal law?


----------



## smussuw

^^ The law is first drafted by a ministerial legal committee, then goes to the FNC to approve, which has been done already. Now it should go back to the cabinet chaired by Sheikh Mohammad of course to approve then a final approval by the president UAE president.

He doesn't need to over-rule anything since he is the one making it !


----------



## Dubai_Steve

A new report by HSBC has found that Dubai property prices fell 23% last month from their record high in September. Prices for Dubai villas fell 30%, while the price tags for Dubai apartments were 20% lower than their September peak, the report said. It was the first time that a survey measured actual prices at which properties were bought and sold.

http://www.ameinfo.com/182034.html


----------



## gerald.d

smussuw said:


> ^^ The law is first drafted by a ministerial legal committee, then goes to the FNC to approve, which has been done already. Now it should go back to the cabinet chaired by Sheikh Mohammad of course to approve then a final approval by the president UAE president.
> 
> He doesn't need to over-rule anything since he is the one making it !


Thanks for explaining that - I wasn't aware of his position in drafting federal law.


----------



## dbxdude

tehsin123 said:


> World News: U.A.E. Tightens Press Rules Amid Financial Downturn
> By Mirna Sleiman
> 298 words
> 22 January 2009
> The Wall Street Journal
> A9
> English
> (Copyright (c) 2009, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)
> 
> DUBAI -- The government of the United Arab Emirates is tightening its media laws amid a slew of negative headlines about the country's economy and corporate scandals in Dubai.
> 
> The Persian Gulf state's Federal National Council passed the draft of a new media law Tuesday, replacing the 28-year-old Publications Law. The draft was first presented over a year ago. It now needs to be approved by the cabinet and U.A.E. President Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan.
> 
> The law threatens to fine anyone who knowingly publishes information that damages the U.A.E.'s reputation or harms its economy. Potential fines range from 50,000 U.A.E. dirhams ($13,600) for minor violations to as much as one million dirhams for criticizing the ruling family.
> 
> While the proposed law protects journalists from imprisonment for carrying out their duties, the government plans to fine journalists up to 200,000 dirhams if they name suspects under investigation in the emirate, according to the draft.
> 
> The law follows a slowdown in the country's economy and corporate scandals involving top executives in banks and real-estate companies in Dubai.
> 
> "The new laws do nothing to advance the cause of press freedom in the U.A.E.," said Frank Kane, former business editor of the U.K.'s Observer newspaper and now an independent media consultant in the U.A.E.
> 
> Officials close to the government played down concerns it would crimp media freedoms. "News agencies and reporters need not to worry as long as they're doing a professional job," said Abdulatif Al Sayegh, chief executive officer at government-owned Arab Media Group.


eeek


----------



## Anjam

Global woes hit Dubai's fragile economy 

By Malcolm Borthwick 
Editor, Middle East Business Report, BBC World, Dubai 



Pajani Vail came to Dubai a year ago to work in construction. 

He is on a three year contract, but has not worked or been paid for four months. 

Mr Vail spends most of his time at the Creek in the old town in Dubai, chatting to friends who are looking for jobs and watching the dhows and abras sail past. 

"There are quite a few people like me," he says. "There are four or five people from my company looking for a job." 

Waste of time 

Mr Vail's employer is holding his passport and has told him to wait until work picks up again. 


In the meantime he sleeps on the streets or in the back of trucks. 

""One day I have food, one day I don't," he says. "I have to borrow money from friends." 

Having left a steady job in India to come to Dubai, Mr Vail is struggling to support his wife and two children back in Chennai. 

"What is the point in being here when I have no food, no money and no job?" he asks. 

"This is a waste of time. If I go back to India at least I am at home with my family." 

No reserves 

There are about 1.5 million Indians in the United Arab Emirates. 

Many of them are blue collar labourers, living together in rooms with six to 10 fellow workers. 

An increasing number are, like Pajani, victims of the credit crunch. 

Unlike its neighbour Abu Dhabi, Dubai does not have vast oil and gas reserves to fall back on. 

In many, ways Dubai is a victim of its own success. 

It has embraced globalization and aggressively diversified its economy into non-oil sectors such as financial services, tourism and real estate. 

The Emirate is home to some of the most ambitious building projects on the planet. 

It is building the world's tallest tower and has just opened the world's biggest shopping mall. 

Not to mention the vast offshore islands off the city's coastline. 

Struggling developers 

But now financial forces have turned, it is exposed. 

The announcement by the property developer Nakheel last week that it is delaying construction of a tower that is set to soar more than a kilometer high, is a sign of the times. 

The real estate market is beginning to unravel. 

"Developers have got serious cash flow problems," says Colin Foreman from Middle East Economic Digest. 

"Their revenue was coming from selling properties which hadn't been built yet and they were supplementing this with financing. 

"Banks aren't interested in lending them money and nobody is interested in buying property, so their two avenues for finance have gone. 

"At the same time they have got huge outgoings because they are building projects that they no longer have money to pay for." 

Little statistics 

It is easier for companies to lay off workers in Dubai than in the West because there are no unions. 

Industry insiders have told the BBC that tens of thousands of workers in the construction and real estate market alone have lost their jobs over the last few months. 

Some workers have just dumped their cars at the airport and fled the country, reportedly fearing for their jobs and nursing large debts. 

But it is tricky to quantify the extent of the job losses here as there are few hard statistics. 

Regional relocation 

Some workers have moved to other countries in the region, such as Qatar, in order to find work. 

Thanks to revenue generated by its vast gas reserves, Qatar's economy is booming. 

It is expected to grow by 9% in 2009, which would make the Gulf state one of the fastest growing economies in the world this year. 

The British project management company Mace is one of many companies in Dubai trying to relocate its employees within the region. 

"The largest reaction or action has been making redundancies," says Ian Tarry, Mace's Middle East director. 

"However we have managed to relocate people to other parts of the group. In some case this has involved salary reductions. 

"So far Abu Dhabi has taken some of the slack and we have relocated other workers to Saudi Arabia." 

Expats and tourists 

The worry is that the slowdown in the construction and the real estate sector could seep into the wider economy. 

Around four-fifths of Dubai's population are expats. 

Fewer expats mean less demand for property. 

The tourism market is also being hit. Western tourists are cutting back on spending, and occupancy rates at many of Dubai's luxury hotels are down. 

The slump in the non-oil sector is part of the reason why the Egyptian investment bank EFG-Hermes says the United Arab Emirates' economy will shrink this year. 

"There are two factors which have supported private consumption," according to Monica Malik, director of economic research at EFG-Hermes. 

"The expats who have spent money setting up houses and buying products and secondly the tourists. 

"These are both going to fall, and with greater uncertainty in the economy those who are remaining will be more careful with their spending. This shows that private consumption will fall." 

Desirable slowdown 

Many say a correction is long overdue, and also healthy. 

Khalfan Saeed Al Kaabi runs a handful of construction related companies and is based in Abu Dhabi. 

"This is normal," he says. 

"We were not having enough time to plan and to design. 

"Projects were being awarded and designs were done on site. 

"It's good for the construction industry to reduce its speed from 200 miles an hour to 40 miles an hour, and let the momentum restart again on a different foundation." 

Damaged credibility 

Many companies around the world and countries in the region have bought into Dubai's success. 

It is the financial, retail and tourism centre for the Gulf. B 

ut what does the future hold? 

"Looking at the long term, Dubai has built itself on the promise of tomorrow and people have been buying into the dream it will deliver," according to Mr Foreman. 

"It now says it will not be able to deliver these dreams, so as an investor that credibility has gone. 

"Dubai needs to do a lot of work to restore that credibility over the next two years." 


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/business/7839347.stm


----------



## peacesells

Dubai_Steve said:


> A new report by HSBC has found that Dubai property prices fell 23% last month from their record high in September. Prices for Dubai villas fell 30%, while the price tags for Dubai apartments were 20% lower than their September peak, the report said. It was the first time that a survey measured actual prices at which properties were bought and sold.
> 
> http://www.ameinfo.com/182034.html



I wonder how they 'measured actual prices at which properties were bought and sold'. Do they have access to Dubai Land Department records?


----------



## 234sale

Market Overview Jan 2009

1. Prices of Business Bay,

- Resale Commercial 1200 – 4000 AED sqft
- Resale Residential 1000 – 2400 AED sqft

Limited Availability of Product availability as Developers Have either Sold Out or retaining stock. Many Developers do not want to flood the market with cheap stock.

Dubai Properties price for Commercial, Bay Square still starts at 3500 AED sqft but they have admitted that resale in Commercial, Executive tower D has been at 1400 AED sqft

Agencies Contacted, Asteco, Better Homes, Landmark and Sherwoods. 
They can offer completed floors or units in Bayswater, Citadel or One Business Bay at 1800 AED sqft

Some transactions have occurred at 1200 AED sqft for individual offices but these distressed sales move fast. 

We were given an opinion previously by Better Homes, Sherwoods and Asteco that if a new project was launched in Business Bay, we should consider a starting selling price of around 1400 AED sqft. But now payment plans should be revised to fit RERA regulation. Based on a 20% then tied to construction payments.

Land Prices are being offered at original price, 250AED sqft. This would seem attractive but construction prices remain high.

Some projects have no been indefinitely delayed due to the ability of the developer or contractor.

Interestingly some developments have now started as Developer have managed to select a contract at a price which was not available in 2008. For Example, The Court, The Exchange


2. Sales Volumes 

According to management sources at Better Homes, Landmark and Asteco resale volumes have plummeted. For example BHomes is in August 08 recorded 200 transaction, In December 08 only 20 transactions. 

Some real estate related companies have laid of up to 35% of staff

Market reports have stopped being produced as many companies admit they the can only show the current situation

Appetite for land sale diminished considerably, Land Price have returned to 2005-6 Prices, The difficult for many is that the Land is now 100% paid, RERA regulation defines that ownership must be in the developers name andonly 20% can be taken before construction starts. Obvious issue of finance still remains, to how a developer would pay for the land.


3. Investor Behavior

Majority of Investors are holding existing stock that was purchase prior to 2008

It is estimated that 20% of off-plan property purchase or installments has investors trying to cancel contracts, with a further 60% refuse to make payments due to cash flow issues.

Overseas investors are not looking to liquidate assets or repatriate funds due to TAX concerns, such as capital gains tax in home countries.

Some developers are facing legal issue from investors as no construction has commenced and more than 60% has been taken from the owner. These companies relied on turn over to generate growth. They were speculating in the same way as their investors, just on a larger scale.

Money is available for projects in the right price point, cheapest properties on market still selling. 



4. Mortgage Market 

Completed Property
- Commercial Property 25% Equity required of value of the property
- Residential Property 20% Equity required of value of the property
- 70% Apartments,
- 80% Villas

Importantly some equity has returned to markets, lender seem unwilling to offer risky loans to self employed or real estate related employees.

Uncompleted Property
- Commercial Property 25% Equity required of value of the property
- Residential Property 20% Equity required of value of the property

Value of the property based on market evaluation

EIBOR 6/11/08

1 MONTH 4.378	2 MONTH 4.496 3 MONTH 4.515	6 MONTH 4.450 
EIBOR 21/01/09

1 MONTH 3.487	2 MONTH 3.721 3 MONTH 3.931	6 MONTH 4.031

This has reduced by almost 1% from November 2008, this is a sign of funds returning to market as Banks increase lending.

120B AED is currently being injected by Abu Dhabi into the commercial loan market. The effect of these funds will take 6 months to be appreciated.

We still are waiting for waiting for lenders to pass on discounts that have occurred in the interest rate. 



5. Developer Attitude toward selling

Developers have pulled advertising and are waiting for normal market condition to return

Government Developers are no organizing Sukuk or Islmaic Bond issues as the way of refinancing. Emaar is currently considering a $2 Billion issue to raise funds.


6. Rental Market in Dubai still remaining high

Rental market is still strong as companies try to expand Middle-East operations
- Commercial rent minimum of 250AED sqft 
- Showroom Rent minimum of 500 AED sqft 
- Residential Rent minimum of 150 AED sqft

Yield have effectively increased if a discounted unit can be purchased at a reduced price.

New Rental Index has been set at Mid 2008 Prices, Increase may occur were rents are under the index value by more than 25%

7. Stock Market 

Local Stock markets are now at 6 year lows

Construction and Developer share values have slipped to the lowest ever experienced

The fear is the dust still hasn’t settled, no green shoot of recovery have yet appeared. 

8. Currency Issues

Dollar Appreciation against most major currencies of 30 – 40% is still present

Dollar against Pound is now at a 6 Year Dollar high at nearly 5.1 AED to £1

Gulf Single Currency now considered implementation by 2010

Interest rate now 1%, Fed Rate effectively Zero


9. The ONHOLD of Master Developments

Some of Dubai’s master development may be put on hold,
-	Dubai Water Front
-	Palm Jebal Ali, Palm Deria

Individual Developments are now also on hold 
-	Dancing Towers, Porsche Design Towers in Business Bay
-	Nakeel 1 Mile High Tower, Anaar Tower 600 M

10. RERA Issues 

-	Only 20% can be taken by a developer before they start construction
-	RERA registry now responsible for transfers. 1% Seller / 1% Buyer


----------



## gerald.d

peacesells said:


> I wonder how they 'measured actual prices at which properties were bought and sold'. Do they have access to Dubai Land Department records?


Mortgages presumably.


----------



## worried1

*Canada Wants me for 400000$*

If I can only get back the the hundreds of thousands of dollars I have lying with Dubai developers who are good at digging holes in the ground, I am invited to Canada.

Dont need the residence visa in Dubai, just return the money!!!:cheers:


Invest C$400,000 for 5 years & be a permanent Canadian resident


22 Jan 2009, 0816 hrs IST, Ishani Duttagupta, ET Bureau


Print EMail Discuss Share Save Comment Text: 



NEW DELHI: Canada's immigrant investor programme, under which applicants investing Canadian $400,000 for five years with the Canadian government 
are eligible for permanent residence, is being expanded as a source of foreign investment to tackle the economic downturn. 

Canada's minister of citizenship, immigration and multiculturalism Jason Kenney told ET that the programme will be made more attractive for high net worth individuals so that it can draw more capital to Canada in these recessionary times. The immigrant investor programme was created by the Canadian government, originally, to woo successful foreign business immigrants to bring new investment to Canada. 

"The Canadian government will soon announce changes in the immigrant investor programme so that we can leverage it better as a source of capital inflows into the country in these recessionary times. The changes will make the programme more attractive for the investors, who are looking at immigrating to Canada through this route, as well as for the Canadian government," Mr Kenney, who was in Delhi, said. 

Immigration experts feel that there has been growing interest among HNIs from India in the Canadian investor programme in recent months. "Canadian permanent residence rights acquired through the investment category are attractive for Indian high net worth individuals because they have very few limitations. The children of investor category immigrants can avail themselves of preferential fees in the Canadian educational institutions," feels immigration lawyer Poorvi Chothani. 


Also Read 


Those moving to Canada under the global immigrant investor programme need to show that they have business experience and a legally obtained minimum household net worth of C$800,000. They have to make a C$400,000 investment with the government of Canada for 5 years, which can be financed through banks such as HSBC. 

The investment is managed by Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) and is guaranteed by the Canadian provinces that use it to create jobs and help their economies grow. CIC returns the C$400,000 investment, without interest, about five years and two months after payment. 

Meanwhile, the good news is that Canada's annual immigration forecast for 2009 has remained unchanged despite the global economic slowdown at 240,000-265,000 new permanent immigrants to be accepted to work in Canada this year. "We have demonstrated our commitment to a strong immigration programme and this will be the highest level in Canadian history. These figures differentiate us from countries such as Britain, France and Australia which have reduced their immigration target because of slowdown. We are monitoring the recessionary trend and its impact on our labour markets. But we feel that there are still professions and regions where we need skilled Indian workers," Mr Kenney said. 



Click here to comment on this story. 




Print EMail Discuss Share Save Comment Text:


----------



## 234sale

> are eligible for permanent


Nothing is 100% here as well dude...


----------



## smussuw

See, Canada welcome you all :laugh:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

They should reduce the price to $200,000, Canada is too cold. But great to see at least one country has some initiative these days, unlike UAE.


----------



## biyadoo

smussuw said:


> See, Canada welcome you all :laugh:


Are they promising a nice house price bubble as well? :cheers:


----------



## tehsin123

Dubai_Steve said:


> They should reduce the price to $200,000, Canada is too cold. But great to see at least one country has some initiative these days, unlike UAE.


Ha, UAE can only dream to be like Canada. Sure there are problems in finding jobs there but so are here. Over there they give you all rights equal to a Canadian citizen, your health, education, civil rights and laws exist to handle any situation.


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## AltinD

Great ... before they only asked for qualification, now: "Screw qualifications, just show me da money..." :rofl:


----------



## Imre

smussuw said:


> See, Canada welcome you all :laugh:


too cold 

Montreal
High: -4° 
Low: -13°

Toronto 
High: -3° 
Low: -6°

Vancouver
High: 5° 
Low: -1°

I wouldnt live there.


----------



## Porcello

*Cold?*



Imre said:


> too cold
> 
> Montreal
> High: -4°
> Low: -13°
> 
> Toronto
> High: -3°
> Low: -6°
> 
> Vancouver
> High: 5°
> Low: -1°
> 
> I wouldnt live there.


Eh eh eh eh !!!
what is the temperatures in Hungary now?


----------



## Goss

tehsin123 said:


> World News: U.A.E. Tightens Press Rules Amid Financial Downturn
> By Mirna Sleiman
> 298 words
> 22 January 2009
> The Wall Street Journal
> A9
> English
> (Copyright (c) 2009, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)
> 
> DUBAI -- The government of the United Arab Emirates is tightening its media laws amid a slew of negative headlines about the country's economy and corporate scandals in Dubai.
> 
> The Persian Gulf state's Federal National Council passed the draft of a new media law Tuesday, replacing the 28-year-old Publications Law. The draft was first presented over a year ago. It now needs to be approved by the cabinet and U.A.E. President Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan.
> 
> The law threatens to fine anyone who knowingly publishes information that damages the U.A.E.'s reputation or harms its economy. Potential fines range from 50,000 U.A.E. dirhams ($13,600) for minor violations to as much as one million dirhams for criticizing the ruling family.
> 
> While the proposed law protects journalists from imprisonment for carrying out their duties, the government plans to fine journalists up to 200,000 dirhams if they name suspects under investigation in the emirate, according to the draft.
> 
> The law follows a slowdown in the country's economy and corporate scandals involving top executives in banks and real-estate companies in Dubai.
> 
> "The new laws do nothing to advance the cause of press freedom in the U.A.E.," said Frank Kane, former business editor of the U.K.'s Observer newspaper and now an independent media consultant in the U.A.E.
> 
> Officials close to the government played down concerns it would crimp media freedoms. "News agencies and reporters need not to worry as long as they're doing a professional job," said Abdulatif Al Sayegh, chief executive officer at government-owned Arab Media Group.


I suppose this forum could be banned in Dubai?


----------



## AltinD

^^ A couple of weeks ago, a water pipe bursts and water flooded Toronto's main power station short-circuiting and leaving more then half of the city without electricity.

To make things worse, the water inside froze so they had to melt the ice first, then discard the water out and then reaching the machineries and equipments for repair. Some parts remained without power for almost 24 hours. :runaway:


----------



## NajamD

Tell me the temperatures in Dubai in summer? Can you live here in summer?


----------



## Imre

Porcello said:


> Eh eh eh eh !!!
> what is the temperatures in Hungary now?


High: 6° 
Low: 3°

so Dubai is still better

High: 21° 
Low: 15°


----------



## NajamD

AltinD said:


> ^^ A couple of weeks ago, a water pipe bursts and water flooded Toronto's main power station short-circuiting and leaving more then half of the city without electricity.
> 
> To make things worse, the water inside froze so they had to melt the ice first, then discard the water out and then reaching the machineries and equipments for repair. Some parts remained without power for almost 24 hours. :runaway:


Atleast they had the will and desire to sort the problem out!!! Unlike here in Dubai where no one seems to care any more!!!!


----------



## AltinD

NajamD said:


> Tell me the temperatures in Dubai in summer? Can you live here in summer?


Compare +50 with -30 ... then add snow, ice, salt in the streets. :lol:


----------



## NajamD

NajamD said:


> Tell me the temperatures in Dubai in summer? Can you live here in summer?


I tell you the best option!!! 6 months in the UK and 6 months in Dubai:banana:


----------



## AltinD

Oh I forgot: compare Dubai's +50 in summer with Toronto's +35 in the same period (yes it has happened every year), and tell me where's easier to live at those temperatures.


----------



## NajamD

AltinD said:


> Compare +50 with -30 ... then add snow, ice, salt in the streets. :lol:


At least you can put some clothes on and go out!!!:lol:


----------



## Goss

NajamD said:


> Tell me the temperatures in Dubai in summer? Can you live here in summer?


True I would rather be in UK and Canada from May-Oct.
Green and beautifull.Heat in Dubai can be unbearable


----------



## AltinD

NajamD said:


> Atleast they had the will and desire to sort the problem out!!! Unlike here in Dubai where no one seems to care any more!!!!


What are you talking about? :weird:

Dubai had a (the only one so far) major power failure in 2005. It took them 4 - 8 hours to restore the supply to every corner of the city.


----------



## NajamD

AltinD said:


> Oh I forgot: compare Dubai's +50 in summer with Toronto's +35 in the same period (yes it has happened every year), and tell me where's easier to live at those temperatures.


+35 any time!!! Bring on the bikinis and the Bermuda shorts!!!!


----------



## Goss

Imre said:


> High: 6°
> Low: 3°
> 
> so Dubai is still better
> 
> High: 21°
> Low: 15°


Imre-do you ever miss Hungary?


----------



## AltinD

NajamD said:


> At least you can put some clothes on and go out!!!:lol:


I see you have NEVER experienced colder then a few degrees below freezing or a major snow storm. :lol:


----------



## AltinD

NajamD said:


> +35 any time!!! Bring on the bikinis and the Bermuda shorts!!!!


I see you have not really experienced +30 weather either. :lol:


----------



## NajamD

AltinD said:


> What are you talking about? :weird:
> 
> Dubai had a (the only one so far) major power failure in 2005. It took them 4 - 8 hours to restore the supply to every corner of the city.


I am not talking about the power failure but the FAILURE of Dubai to act upon the financial and real estate MESS it haS GOT ITSELF INTO!!!


----------



## AltinD

newbie ...


----------



## NajamD

AltinD said:


> I see you have NEVER experienced colder then a few degrees below freezing or a major snow storm. :lol:


AGREED!! Hence my advice; Summer in the UK and Winter in Dubai!!! HEAVEN!!!


----------



## NajamD

AltinD said:


> newbie ...


Yes, Mr KNOW IT ALL!!!:lol:


----------



## AltinD

^^ Well, none disagrees to that.


----------



## Imre

Goss said:


> Imre-do you ever miss Hungary?


not really, just the family and some friends, the country itself not


----------



## AltinD

NajamD said:


> Yes, Mr KNOW IT ALL!!!:lol:



EDIT: That too, but I was referring to this below: :lol:



NajamD said:


> AGREED!! Hence my advice; Summer in the UK and Winter in Dubai!!! HEAVEN!!!


----------



## biyadoo

I have lived in Canada (Ottawa) a while back - and during winter! (For 6 months) The average temperature was around -30 C. It was only April when it got a little close 0 C and everyone rushed outside to celebrate. 
Not a very attractive place to live (for me).


----------



## worried1

*234Sale*



234sale said:


> Nothing is 100% here as well dude...


What i hear is that, you get the permanent visa form the embassy in your home country. In other words you arrive Canada with your permanent visa.

I think if Australia, US, UK follow this and the price fo oil goes to 10$ a barrel, Dubai will do the same, but bythen hopefully I can take out all my investments.

Far better to be in a place where you are however reluctantly welcomed rather than being treated like dirt:cheers:


----------



## worried1

*What about Vancouver*

:lol:


biyadoo said:


> I have lived in Canada (Ottawa) a while back - and during winter! (For 6 months) The average temperature was around -30 C. It was only April when it got a little close 0 C and everyone rushed outside to celebrate.
> Not a very attractive place to live (for me).


 what about vancouver or the west coast:lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I would not mind living in Vancouver, the warmest of the the Canadian cities. Weather is similar to the UK not too cold - best of the Canadian cities in my opntion and was 3rd ranked city in the world for quality of life.


----------



## AltinD

^^ technically speaking, you don't get a permanent visa stamped in your passport right-away.


----------



## worried1

*Best Option agreed*



NajamD said:


> I tell you the best option!!! 6 months in the UK and 6 months in Dubai:banana:


Best option agreed, but will Dubai let me stay for 6 monthshno:


----------



## AltinD

biyadoo said:


> I have lived in Canada (Ottawa) a while back - and during winter! (For 6 months) The average temperature was around -30 C. It was only April when it got a little close 0 C and everyone rushed outside to celebrate.
> Not a very attractive place to live (for me).


It was September when I visited Ottawa ... weather prospects were the least of my "worries".


----------



## Mistermark

NajamD said:


> AGREED!! Hence my advice; Summer in the UK and Winter in Dubai!!! HEAVEN!!!


Perfection for me would be summers in Vancouver (often voted best city in the world for quality of life) and winters in Dubai.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ well that should be possible, relocate to Vancouver and use a visit visa for 3 to 6 months in Dubai in your holiday home. Hmmm, nice idea - might do it myself. You can also visit the US easily that way during the summer for holidays.


----------



## worried1

*Help with blogs*



Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ well that should be possible, relocate to Vancouver and use a visit visa for 3 to 6 months in Dubai in your holiday home. Hmmm, nice idea - might do it myself. You can also visit the US easily that way during the summer for holidays.


I was wondering if there are any blogs that specifically consider Canadian permanent residency on $400000 investor issues, things like application process, benfits due etc etc---sounds good make Vancouver permanent, trips to USA and trips to Dubai until the holes in the ground get filled and one can cash out:lol:


----------



## Mistermark

worried1 said:


> I was wondering if there are any blogs that specifically consider Canadian permanent residency on $400000 investor issues, things like application process, benfits due etc etc---sounds good make Vancouver permanent, trips to USA and trips to Dubai until the holes in the ground get filled and one can cash out:lol:


I think there are also options for getting into Canada without having to lend the government $400k for five years. For instance, an entrepreneur with maybe double that sum in net worth can get in and keep all their money provided they accept they're outside the health and social benefits system for the first few years. I believe their residency gets reviewed after a couple of years, during which time the person is supposed to have set up some kind of business.


----------



## biyadoo

worried1 said:


> :lol: what about vancouver or the west coast:lol:


:lol: Too green and boring.  And before you ask, I don't want Toronto either.
You're not getting rid of me that easily... 
Unless of course someone pays the C$400K for my visa and there is a property boom...
:cheers:


----------



## speculator

worried1 said:


> If I can only get back the the hundreds of thousands of dollars I have lying with Dubai developers who are good at digging holes in the ground, I am invited to Canada.
> 
> Dont need the residence visa in Dubai, just return the money!!!:cheers:
> 
> 
> Invest C$400,000 for 5 years & be a permanent Canadian resident
> 
> 
> 22 Jan 2009, 0816 hrs IST, Ishani Duttagupta, ET Bureau
> 
> 
> Print EMail Discuss Share Save Comment Text:
> 
> 
> 
> NEW DELHI: Canada's immigrant investor programme, under which applicants investing Canadian $400,000 for five years with the Canadian government
> are eligible for permanent residence, is being expanded as a source of foreign investment to tackle the economic downturn.
> 
> Canada's minister of citizenship, immigration and multiculturalism Jason Kenney told ET that the programme will be made more attractive for high net worth individuals so that it can draw more capital to Canada in these recessionary times. The immigrant investor programme was created by the Canadian government, originally, to woo successful foreign business immigrants to bring new investment to Canada.
> 
> "The Canadian government will soon announce changes in the immigrant investor programme so that we can leverage it better as a source of capital inflows into the country in these recessionary times. The changes will make the programme more attractive for the investors, who are looking at immigrating to Canada through this route, as well as for the Canadian government," Mr Kenney, who was in Delhi, said.
> 
> Immigration experts feel that there has been growing interest among HNIs from India in the Canadian investor programme in recent months. "Canadian permanent residence rights acquired through the investment category are attractive for Indian high net worth individuals because they have very few limitations. The children of investor category immigrants can avail themselves of preferential fees in the Canadian educational institutions," feels immigration lawyer Poorvi Chothani.
> 
> 
> Also Read
> 
> 
> Those moving to Canada under the global immigrant investor programme need to show that they have business experience and a legally obtained minimum household net worth of C$800,000. They have to make a C$400,000 investment with the government of Canada for 5 years, which can be financed through banks such as HSBC.
> 
> The investment is managed by Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) and is guaranteed by the Canadian provinces that use it to create jobs and help their economies grow. CIC returns the C$400,000 investment, without interest, about five years and two months after payment.
> 
> Meanwhile, the good news is that Canada's annual immigration forecast for 2009 has remained unchanged despite the global economic slowdown at 240,000-265,000 new permanent immigrants to be accepted to work in Canada this year. "We have demonstrated our commitment to a strong immigration programme and this will be the highest level in Canadian history. These figures differentiate us from countries such as Britain, France and Australia which have reduced their immigration target because of slowdown. We are monitoring the recessionary trend and its impact on our labour markets. But we feel that there are still professions and regions where we need skilled Indian workers," Mr Kenney said.
> 
> 
> 
> Click here to comment on this story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Print EMail Discuss Share Save Comment Text:



I would recommend looking carefully at :

www.notcanada.com

I am convinced they are running a money making scam at the peril of the immigrant/s


----------



## smussuw

Canada is certainly a lovely place to live in, very slow comparing to Dubai but it has lovely people. I recommend everyone to go there !


----------



## worried1

*Great Site*



speculator said:


> I would recommend looking carefully at :
> 
> www.notcanada.com
> 
> I am convinced they are running a money making scam at the peril of the immigrant/s


It is a good site for someone to consider who wants to go to Canada to work.

Here I was looking at Property & Investment in Dubai vs Canada. Looks to me if a High Networth individual ($400000 &above) who is not looking for a job or social services, Canada is offering more rule of the law than Dubai. 

So, you keep 400K with the Canadian government, buy a house or appartment say 500K. Now, God forbid if you run out of money (stock market crash)the government looks after you (health care, maybe old age pension.

vs Dubai---I put in 900K and if I loose money and grow old--I get kicked out.

Trying to do some risk management here.


----------



## speculator

worried1 said:


> It is a good site for someone to consider who wants to go to Canada to work.
> 
> Here I was looking at Property & Investment in Dubai vs Canada. Looks to me if a High Networth individual ($400000 &above) who is not looking for a job or social services, Canada is offering more rule of the law than Dubai.
> 
> So, you keep 400K with the Canadian government, buy a house or appartment say 500K. Now, God forbid if you run out of money (stock market crash)the government looks after you (health care, maybe old age pension.
> 
> vs Dubai---I put in 900K and if I loose money and grow old--I get kicked out.
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to do some risk management here.



YES you have some valid points. I also liked the idea of immigrating to Canada but made the decision to put my eggs in UAE. However I am not moaning much because I wasn't moaning when things were good in UAE either. However no place is perfect and to be honest if I had enough money the choice would always be UAE 1 to Canada 0. The rule of law may not be liberal but it has rule of discipline/security not found in western countries; that's a deep discussion though.


----------



## True Blue

smussuw said:


> ^^ It applies to all media activities including online media, TV channels, magazines, etc, that are based in the UAE, including free zones.
> 
> Hope Sheikh Mohammad steps in and prove that he really support freedom of speech and change the law.


The rulers of the Emirates are introducing more laws to control media reporting and tv broadcasting within the region. The first program to be axed is the broadcasting of the Flintstones. 

A spokesman said that Emiratis from Dubai don't understand the humour however those from ABU DHABI DO!!
.
:laugh:


----------



## dubai_or_not

*lol*



True Blue said:


> The rulers of the Emirates are introducing more laws to control media reporting and tv broadcasting within the region. The first program to be axed is the broadcasting of the Flintstones.
> 
> A spokesman said that Emiratis from Dubai don't understand the humour however those from ABU DHABI DO!!
> .
> :laugh:


Now that is funny - cheers :cheers1:


----------



## HappyLarry

biyadoo said:


> I have lived in Canada (Ottawa) a while back - and during winter! (For 6 months) The average temperature was around -30 C. It was only April when it got a little close 0 C and everyone rushed outside to celebrate.
> Not a very attractive place to live (for me).


Jeez! and they want $400K of your money for 5 years and 2 months.
What with the weather, it seems a bit like imprisonment followed by return of your possessions. 
hno:


----------



## Money2Burn

Sorry guys I was thinking this is Property&Investment in Dubai: Your questions about the market.....


----------



## Adel

smussuw said:


> ^^ The law is first drafted by a ministerial legal committee, then goes to the FNC to approve, which has been done already. Now it should go back to the cabinet chaired by Sheikh Mohammad of course to approve then a final approval by the president UAE president.
> 
> He doesn't need to over-rule anything since he is the one making it !


You need an elected parliament and freedom of press like Bahrain and Kuwait.


----------



## Adel

........


----------



## Jodel

*Vancouver & Dubai*

Yes, that was our plan and we finally achieved it a couple of years ago living in Vancouver from May to end Sept. the Dubai from October to April. Perfect.
We have the best of the weather in both countries and have not (yet) found any downside.
We bought our place in North Van. in 2006 with a 65% mortgage from HSBC Canada. This is the product they offer as non- Canadian resident without resident visa. We can stay up to 6 months on a single visit but the US border is so close, lots of people go over for shopping and visa run. I think u need a couple of days stay outside of Canada. Our place in Dubai was bought in 2002, stage payments in cash every six months or so. An investor visa from Esthimar on completion, March 2007.
Our first deposit in Sep.02 AED 5.4=1GBP. Handover in May 07-7.3AED =1GBP
I have to say we enjoy both places for different reasons - for me, social opportunities in Dubai on the doorstep and can walk or taxi most places - in Vancouver space, fresh air & countryside, having a cold beer on a hot day sitting outside a cafe, or a cold white wine at a fish restaurant. 
We always travel via UK so can catch up with family, friends and Accountant!

*Mistermark & Worried1 *- pm if I can help with more info.

Regards
Jo




Mistermark said:


> Perfection for me would be summers in Vancouver (often voted best city in the world for quality of life) and winters in Dubai.


----------



## nisha

234sale said:


> EIBOR 21/01/09
> 
> 1 MONTH 3.487	2 MONTH 3.721 3 MONTH 3.931	6 MONTH 4.031
> 
> This has reduced by almost 1% from November 2008, this is a sign of funds returning to market as Banks increase lending. [See post below]
> 
> 120B AED is currently being injected by Abu Dhabi into the commercial loan market . The effect of these funds will take 6 months to be appreciated [No chance, the current loans:deposits ratio is so bad, that even if they inject double this amount, the ratio will still look bad].
> 
> We still are waiting for waiting for lenders to pass on discounts that have occurred in the interest rate. [Will be a very long wait I'm afraid]


EIBOR is artificially low and does not reflect the market. Liquidity is tighter than ever. Mortgage rates will NOT come down, in fact I expect quite the opposite, as banks will start pricing in to the rates (a)a liquidity premium and (b)a risk premium (brought on by very high rates in loan defaults and eroding property values).

The cost of funds for banks is very high (certainly not EIBOR) - between 6.5 and 7.5% (ADCB is offering between 7 and 8.5% for 1-3 year term deposits to retail investors).


----------



## iced

Mistermark said:


> I agree. The article states that "The law threatens to fine anyone who knowingly publishes information that damages the U.A.E.'s reputation or harms its economy". It's my view that some of the more fatuous puff pieces, along the lines of "UAE not in recession", "Dubai property market bounce-back" are actually the ones damaging the country's reputation and harming its economy, by making it look as if those in power don't actually understand the seriousness of the situation and, whether through complacency or arrogance, are failing to do what's necessary to improve the situation.


Me too. Infact some of the quotes made by people in charge of companies like Emaar are deliberately misleading and damaging the reputation of the company and destroying investor wealth. The same is true of developers.
Surely such people should be accountable under this rule.

Of course it would be better to augment this rule by explicitly stating that there is no freedom of press and UAE has censorship. 

Insulting or being rude to the ruling family should not be allowed and i have no problem with a law prohibiting this and being punishable. It already is in other asian places like Thailand.

However commercial misrepresentations or negligent statements by corporate officers and economy officials should also be punishable financially. This would improve transparency, improve financial decision making and asset allocation and restore confidence in Dubai and its reputation.


----------



## NajamD

iced said:


> Me too. Infact some of the quotes made by people in charge of companies like Emaar are deliberately misleading and damaging the reputation of the company and destroying investor wealth. The same is true of developers.
> Surely such people should be accountable under this rule.
> 
> Of course it would be better to augment this rule by explicitly stating that there is no freedom of press and UAE has censorship.
> 
> Insulting or being rude to the ruling family should not be allowed and i have no problem with a law prohibiting this and being punishable. It already is in other asian places like Thailand.
> 
> However commercial misrepresentations or negligent statements by corporate officers and economy officials should also be punishable financially. This would improve transparency, improve financial decision making and asset allocation and restore confidence in Dubai and its reputation.


Agreed entirely!!!
It seems like the whole world is moving forward as far as freedom of speech is concerned and we in UAE are moving in the opposite direction!!hno:


----------



## iced

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ well that should be possible, relocate to Vancouver and use a visit visa for 3 to 6 months in Dubai in your holiday home. Hmmm, nice idea - might do it myself. You can also visit the US easily that way during the summer for holidays.


Sounds perfect although Canadian taxes are quite high


----------



## NajamD

£1 = AED5.00 today!


----------



## Joannides

GBP/AED= 5.0000hno:


----------



## NajamD

There appears to be no end to the Pound slide!!! Wait till they start printing more pound sterlings!! It will be sheer mayhem!! Bad news for UK investors who have to send payments. Their apartments have suddenly become 40% more expensive!!!hno:


----------



## dubaifirst

NajamD said:


> There appears to be no end to the Pound slide!!! Wait till they start printing more pound sterlings!! It will be sheer mayhem!! Bad news for UK investors who have to send payments. Their apartments have suddenly become 40% more expensive!!!hno:


If you also add 30% depreciation in property values from their peak last August, then we are in for 70% loss!


----------



## V Kapoor

NajamD said:


> There appears to be no end to the Pound slide!!! Wait till they start printing more pound sterlings!! It will be sheer mayhem!! Bad news for UK investors who have to send payments. Their apartments have suddenly become 40% more expensive!!!hno:


Not, if you are earning rent in Dubai and remitting it back home!!


----------



## NajamD

V Kapoor said:


> Not, if you are earning rent in Dubai and remitting it back home!!


Chances are that the rents will be coming down too as there is likely to be oversupply of rental units!!


----------



## nisha

Joannides said:


> GBP/AED= 5.0000hno:


4.96 now


----------



## dubaifirst

Currency brokers are expecting £=1.2$ by March.


----------



## skdubai

i wouldn't be surprised if that did happen....


----------



## V Kapoor

dubaifirst said:


> Currency brokers are expecting £=1.2$ by March.


That means about AED 4.41=GBP 1..... because $ AED peg is constant!


----------



## HappyLarry

^^ If £/$ goes to 1.2 then £ investors in Dubai will be forced to sell because good times like these will not come around for a long while.

E.g. Index apartment of 1000sf bought for 1.4M AED at an average exchange rate of 6.5 is now selling for 2.9M AED. So, @4.4 £/AED it is a profit of
659k - 215K = £444K

So, it is not all bad news. :cheers:


----------



## dubaifirst

HappyLarry said:


> ^^ If £/$ goes to 1.2 then £ investors in Dubai will be forced to sell because good times like these will not come around for a long while.
> 
> E.g. Index apartment of 1000sf bought for 1.4M AED at an average exchange rate of 6.5 is now selling for 2.9M AED. So, @4.4 £/AED it is a profit of
> 659k - 215K = £444K
> 
> So, it is not all bad news. :cheers:


but will they be able to sell ?


----------



## HappyLarry

dubaifirst said:


> but will they be able to sell ?


You have a point and I don't have an answer but it would seem that DIFC based units are holding up remarkably. Check out rental and selling prices in GulfNews for the very few units available. Also, recent Rental index puts DIFC pretty much at the top.


----------



## MrCricket

^^so we will be seeing a lot of UK investors looking to dispose their units ..

Very bleak chance of market improving in the coming monthshno:


----------



## bizzybonita

Deyaar puts all unsold projects on hold


on Wednesday, 21 January 2009


Dubai developer Deyaar has put all its unsold projects on hold due to the global financial turmoil but still expects to post record profits for the fourth quarter, its chief executive said on Wednesday.

Markus Giebel told reporters the company had put "many projects" on hold adding "it's wrong to deliver units which have not been promised to the customer".

Gibel did not give figures when asked about his profit forecast for 2008 and the fourth quarter, but said: "The increases are substantial ... (We have a) record breaking quarter and year".

Deyaar has an 8 percent debt to equity ratio, making it almost "debt free", Giebel said.

But he predicted that the financial crisis will dog the sector for a least six more months.

"People say it will be over in the first quarter. No way. It's not a process to be completed in the next six months."

Deyaar will deliver five residential and commercial projects in Dubai in 2009, he said, adding it has around 22 projects in the emirate, worth between 20-25 billion dirhams ($5.45-6.81 billion), under construction, Giebel said.

Deyaar is in negotiations with a Saudi firm to develop a master community in Jeddah, worth 20 billion dirhams, he said.

"We believe Saudi Arabia is a good region ... there are many opportunities (globally), distressed assets are one of them".

"Turkey is good value. We are looking at JV potentials in Turkey and many countries" in the Middle East and North Africa regions, he added.

Giebel said he expected there to be a reduction in the number of developers in Dubai in 2009 as a result of the financial turmoil, adding that consolidation was a good strategy.

Deyaar and Union Properties denied in October that they were in merger talks but were unable to say if the government was looking into ordering a tie-up.

Deyaar's net income in the third quarter rose to 311.95 million dirhams ($85 million) from 200.16 million dirhams ($54.54 million) a year-earlier and revenue surged almost five-fold to 1.01 billion dirhams. (Reuters)


----------



## MrCricket

Wannberich is online again.coooollll:banana:


----------



## bizzybonita

*RERA INDEX*


*Rental Values of Residential Apartments (Dhs '000)*




















---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Rental Values of Residential Villas (Dhs '000)*



















---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Rental Values of Freehold Property (Dhs '000) *



















----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Source : RERA]


----------



## AltinD

bizzybonita said:


> Deyaar puts all unsold projects on hold


And they also said in another article that they are still *growing *in Dubai :lol:


----------



## tehsin123

*Expect the World Economy to Suffer Through 2009 *

By IAN BREMMER and NOURIEL ROUBINI

Some optimistic experts are now saying that though this will be a turbulent year for global markets, the worst of the financial crisis is now behind us. Would it were so. We believe that 2009 will be tougher than many anticipate.

We enter the new year grappling with the most serious global economic and financial crisis since the Great Depression. The U.S. economy is, at best, halfway through a recession that began in December 2007 and will prove the longest and most severe of the postwar period. Credit losses of close to $3 trillion are leaving the U.S. banking and financial system insolvent. And the credit crunch will persist as households, financial firms and corporations with high debt ratios and solvency problems undergo a sharp deleveraging process.



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123268218889009305.html


----------



## tehsin123

*Dubai May Opt to Bag Barneys*

*Dubai May Opt to Bag Barneys*

By RACHEL DODES and PETER LATTMAN

Istithmar World, an investment arm of the Dubai government, is weighing a sale of luxury retailer Barneys New York just 18 months after buying it, two people familiar with the matter say.

The business will likely fetch far less than the buyers paid for it, underscoring the severity of the downturn in the luxury sector and the challenges faced by companies purchased at the height of the credit boom.

Istithmar bought the retailer in summer 2007 for $942 million after a drawn-out bidding war with Japan-based Fast Retailing drove up the price by almost $100 million. Barneys, which previously had been owned by Jones Apparel Group Inc., didn't disclose its financial performance at the time, but three people familiar with the transaction say that it fetched a multiple of more than 12 times earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, or Ebitda, compared with less than nine times Ebitda for the acquisition of Neiman Marcus Group Inc., another high-profile luxury-goods retailer, by TPG and Warburg Pincus.

Historically, the luxury sector "was thought to be more insulated than the general apparel market in a recession. But as we know, this is more than just a recession," says Marc S. Cooper, managing director at Peter J. Solomon Co., which advised Istithmar on the acquisition. Mr. Cooper said he had no knowledge of a sale of Barneys.

The new owners "know that they will have to take a haircut," said a person familiar with the situation, adding that Barneys' Ebitda has dropped some 75%, going from $80 million at the time of the deal to $20 million. Another person familiar with the luxury retail sector said Istithmar will be lucky to get $300 million to $400 million for the 37-store chain in the current environment.

Istithmar Chief Executive David Jackson declined to comment. A spokeswoman for Barneys had no comment. News of the possible sale was reported Thursday by Bloomberg News.

After buying Barneys, known for carrying glamorous fashion labels like Lanvin and Balenciaga, Mr. Jackson said his strategy was to expand the concept aggressively, both domestically and internationally. But now, amid the worst consumer-spending slump in decades, the highly leveraged company must decide "whether to put more cash into the company to fund debt, or cut and run," said a person with knowledge of the situation.

Another issue is the company's lack of leadership. Since CEO Howard Socol quit in July 2007, Istithmar has been conducting a search for a new chief executive, but the search has been delayed over uncertainty regarding a sale, according to people familiar with the matter.

Moody's downgraded Barney's debt to Caa1 from B3 in November. Moody's analyst Michael Zuccaro said Barneys doesn't have any debt coming due in the near term. But, he said, "To service the significant debt load they have, they have to grow top-line and profitability."

Write to Rachel Dodes at [email protected] and Peter Lattman at [email protected]
Printed in The Wall Street Journal,


----------



## IISinbadII

Where are *docc* and *first timer*?


----------



## AITU

^^They got married and are on their honeymoon together.


----------



## IISinbadII

AITU said:


> ^^They got married and are on their honeymoon together.


:hug: :lovethem:


----------



## Wannaberich

MrCricket said:


> Wannaberich now that you are back.
> 
> Do you have any good news on the property market?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> No.We are all screwed.:skull:


----------



## skdubai

Wannaberich said:


> No.We are all screwed.:skull:



Ouch........ the optimisits are a dying breed now aren't they? DOCC where are you?????


----------



## MrCricket

Optimists are left with nothing to talk or bullshit about.

Give me one good reason why the market will improve?


Lending Rates.
Visa issue.
Currency exchange Rates.
Transperent demand supply graph.
High maintainece resulting in lesser rental yeilds.

Tell me why should invest in property market now?

This will be Buyers market for good period without any doubt.


----------



## docc

skdubai said:


> Ouch........ the optimisits are a dying breed now aren't they? DOCC where are you?????


I'm right here. I'm still positive about Dubai and UAE's future and i don't care about what's happening right now. I'm actually glad that all the dirt is getting washed out resulting in what will hopefully be a mature market.

Btw, MrCricket = First Timer...too easy.


----------



## AltinD

docc said:


> Btw, MrCricket = First Timer...too easy.


Dunno, maybe that one too.


----------



## Wannaberich

For some strange reason the messages welcoming me back from yesterday have all been deleted.

P.S Really enjoyed reading your posts on the 'New Year Parties CANCELLED' thread.
You guys really know how to insult each other.


----------



## Money2Burn

the question yo have to sk your self is: does an add in gulfnews represent a realistic value of a property?

for 2.9mil you can get a 3BR at this moment


----------



## boston101

Is this guy for real?

Dubai ‘09 property demand to outweigh supply – report
by Daliah Merzaban on Thursday, 22 January 2009 

QUITE OPTIMISTIC: Property prices in Dubai fell 23% in the Q4, HSBC said on Wednesday.Demand for real estate in Dubai is likely to outweigh supply this year despite the fallout of the global financial crisis, Emaar Properties Chairman Mohamed Alabbar said in remarks published on Thursday.

"According to the expectations of demand and supply for real estate units for 2009, Alabbar said that there will be a relative demand surplus," daily Al-Khaleej reported, without providing a direct quote.

Alabbar heads a crisis committee set up by the Dubai government to respond to the global financial crisis, which brought to an end an economic boom in the Gulf Arab region.


Property prices in the emirate fell 23 percent in the last quarter of 2008, HSBC said on Wednesday.

The committee would provide "accurate indicators of the impact of the crisis over various sectors of the economy" and devise recommendations on how to face the crisis, the Arabic-language paper cited Alabbar as saying.

The number of new residence permits granted by the Dubai Department of Economic Development in October and November witnessed a rise over the year earlier, Alabbar, who is also director-general of the department, said. (Reuters) 


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/544428-dubai-09-property-demand-to-outweigh-supply--paper


----------



## bizzybonita

UAE commercial property price to see modest decline 



Stable commercial real estate prices in the UAE unaffected so far by the global economic downturn will witness a modest decline this year, market analysts said. The supply-demand gap for office space is still wide as the expected delivery of towers, such as Business Bay, has been delayed, they said.

With these projects expected to complete this year, more commercial space availability will result in a natural drop in prices, they added. These views followed the release of three reports this week by Asteco, Real Capital Analytics and CB Richard Ellis (CBRE). These market reports indicated that commercial real estate survived 2008 – ending flat on sales prices and slightly lower on rental prices for the last quarter.

Latest research from CBRE showed that prime rents in each of the three main commercial property sectors – office, retail and industrial – remained static in the fourth quarter of 2008. However, rental growth in 2008 as a whole reached 50 per cent for industrial buildings, 29 per cent for offices and 18 per cent for retail.

Asteco reported that office sales prices maintained stability posting an average growth rate of 10 per cent last year. Research by Real Capital Analytics suggested that year-on-year commercial property sales doubled in 2008, with property jumping 148 per cent to $3.12 billion.

Commenting on the latest trend in the market, Nick Maclean, Managing Director of CBRE, said, "We are seeing now for the first time a drop of commercial rental prices. Property purchase prices have been coming down for some time now, but rents had until now been holding strong."

Andrew Chambers, Managing Director of Asteco, added, "In recent months real estate prices in Dubai have been at an all-time high. With the current global climate a lowering was inevitable. It should be noted, that the majority of units listed are asking prices. Consequently, it is difficult to set value benchmarks, due to limited transactional activity over the last two months. Areas with heavy off-plan projects have generally been affected more, as the market has shifted from a speculator market to an end-user market.

"It is envisaged that in 2009 there will be a decrease in off-plan sales. This could potentially lead to improved project planning which may limit construction delays. Furthermore, an increase in owner or occupier rather than speculative projects may be seen."

The commercial real estate market was still too underdeveloped to fully understand and speculate, felt Ian Albert, Regional Director of Colliers International. "With the completion of current projects this year, the market should evolve into one that offers specific trends and well founded analysis," he said.

Despite a loss of momentum in rental markets, there was no change in investment yields in the fourth quarter, reported CBRE. "Dubai offers some of the highest prime yields in the EMEA [Europe, the Middle East and Africa] region in any case – 11 per cent in the industrial sector, 7.75 per cent in office and eight per cent in retail – and there was no movement in these levels in the final quarter of last year. Indeed over the year as a whole, only the industrial showed any yield change, recording a 50 basis points rise on the year," said Maclean.


via business24-7.ae


----------



## 234sale

Think of it this way. 
If you have cash or want to work hard, the levels of Taxation in USA, Countries in Europe and especially the UK will be so high, why would you bother to work their.

Dubai on the other hand is a shark tank, but with no Taxation. So if you want to protect your assets, earn a high salary with out tax, operate a international business or enjoy a luxury life style. Dubai in my eyes is a Switzerland without the Swiss .


I don't want to leave, its great here,, even in the current bad situation.


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ That would depend on what field you are in. Naturally, if your company is hit by the international slowdown or the local slump......you wont be needed.


----------



## THEPOINT

Just writing a cheque of £32k (Tax) to MR DARLING this morning 
for him to shore up a few more Banks !! 
I wantr to live in Dubai sometime and not pay this level of tax but Visa Situation needs sorting and quick !


----------



## HappyLarry

234sale said:


> Dubai in my eyes is a Switzerland without the Swiss.


:lol:


----------



## speculator

THEPOINT said:


> Just writing a cheque of £32k (Tax) to MR DARLING this morning
> for him to shore up a few more Banks !!
> I wantr to live in Dubai sometime and not pay this level of tax but Visa Situation needs sorting and quick !


YEP same situation. Wrote out check for 36k and similar amount again in July 09; for them to throw at the banks to squander for mistakes they have made whilst the fat cats have been taking millions in bonuses. Just dosnt stack up !!


----------



## Mistermark

boston101 said:


> Is this guy for real?
> 
> Dubai ‘09 property demand to outweigh supply – report
> by Daliah Merzaban on Thursday, 22 January 2009
> 
> QUITE OPTIMISTIC: Property prices in Dubai fell 23% in the Q4, HSBC said on Wednesday.Demand for real estate in Dubai is likely to outweigh supply this year despite the fallout of the global financial crisis, Emaar Properties Chairman Mohamed Alabbar said in remarks published on Thursday.
> 
> "According to the expectations of demand and supply for real estate units for 2009, Alabbar said that there will be a relative demand surplus," daily Al-Khaleej reported, without providing a direct quote.
> 
> Alabbar heads a crisis committee set up by the Dubai government to respond to the global financial crisis, which brought to an end an economic boom in the Gulf Arab region.
> 
> 
> Property prices in the emirate fell 23 percent in the last quarter of 2008, HSBC said on Wednesday.
> 
> The committee would provide "accurate indicators of the impact of the crisis over various sectors of the economy" and devise recommendations on how to face the crisis, the Arabic-language paper cited Alabbar as saying.
> 
> The number of new residence permits granted by the Dubai Department of Economic Development in October and November witnessed a rise over the year earlier, Alabbar, who is also director-general of the department, said. (Reuters)
> 
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/544428-dubai-09-property-demand-to-outweigh-supply--paper


All jokes aside, I wonder whether there's something about Emerati culture I haven't yet picked up on that makes them think that if they say the sky is purple and the sea is pink often enough, people will believe them? Because, to my cynical European eyes, they just make themselves look stupid and, worse, present themselves as patently unable to solve the problem, because they won't even acknowledge it exists.


----------



## FWIW

^^Sounds like Gordon Brown must also be an Emerati...apparantly the UK is "well placed to weather the financial storm".


----------



## 234sale

UK is in the Eye of the storm.. Brown and Blair fully responsible for all the pain.

UAE still has no National Debt. Currency the strongest it has ever been. 

Tomorrow I sign a 1 year contract for work here, viva la Dubai. I'm not going back to my home country as its gong to be tough for a long time in the UK.


----------



## Jodel

Congratulations & well done you 234Sale
Hopefully your new position is not in Construction, Real Estate or Financial Services.





234sale said:


> UK is in the Eye of the storm.. Brown and Blair fully responsible for all the pain.
> 
> UAE still has no National Debt. Currency the strongest it has ever been.
> 
> Tomorrow I sign a 1 year contract for work here, viva la Dubai. I'm not going back to my home country as its gong to be tough for a long time in the UK.


----------



## bizzybonita

Congtulazioni 234sale ...


----------



## worried1

*Jumeriah Golf Estates*

Do we have a thread for Jumeriah Golf Estates, Sanctuary Village:cheers:


----------



## worried1

*Sorry Sanctuary Falls*



worried1 said:


> Do we have a thread for Jumeriah Golf Estates, Sanctuary Village:cheers:


Not Sanctuary Village but Sanctuary Falls:cheers:


----------



## AltinD

bizzybonita said:


> Cong*ra*tulaz*z*ioni 234sale ...


:tongue2:


----------



## Joannides

‘There are fantastic deals there’ 
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090124/BUSINESS/684529491/1005

Property could hit bottom this year 
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090124/BUSINESS/636509410


----------



## dbxdude

if its not yet at bottom then it must be close. Recon the end of the year with the new mono rail and burj opening, plus palm finnished off. lots of positive press, world econmoic situation better, plus probably some cleaver new initiatives ... this place probably come back quite well.


----------



## London2Manila

What is the range of per sq ft/metre maintenance charges for apartments in the Marina ?

What is the normal range for chiller charges ? (are these usually seperated out from maintenance)


----------



## boston101

Looks like Dubai did not make into the top 10 real estate buys for 2009 as per Forbes.

1. Washington, D.C.
2. London, U.K.
3. New York, N.Y.
4. Tokyo, Japan
5. Shenghai, China
6. San Francisco, California
7. Los Angles, California
8. Paris, France
9. Houston, Texas
10. Sinpapore

http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/21/in...w_0121realestate_slide_2.html?thisSpeed=15000


----------



## sam69

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...n-No-Piers-Morgan--incredible-city-Dubai.html

Daily Mail 25.01.09

Programme being shown Thursday 29th Jan @ 9pm ITV


----------



## Richard Head

boston101 said:


> Looks like Dubai did not make into the top 10 real estate buys for 2009 as per Forbes.
> 
> 1. Washington, D.C.
> 2. London, U.K.
> 3. New York, N.Y.
> 4. Tokyo, Japan
> 5. Shenghai, China
> 6. San Francisco, California
> 7. Los Angles, California
> 8. Paris, France
> 9. Houston, Texas
> 10. Sinpapore
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/21/in...w_0121realestate_slide_2.html?thisSpeed=15000


In this economy, that's a bit like compiling a list of the top 10 best types of dogshit to step in. London in 2nd, who in their right mind would buy real estate anywhere in the UK right now when prices are on a steep slide?


----------



## speculator

sam69 said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...n-No-Piers-Morgan--incredible-city-Dubai.html
> 
> Daily Mail 25.01.09
> 
> Programme being shown Thursday 29th Jan @ 9pm ITV


Yeah I have already timed the recording they have been advertising the previews for weeks. I wonder how much this one cost Dubai Marketing Inc.

Im sorry to say though that this clap trap isnt going to help at this stage its too early. The rest of the worl sis in Doldrums also and really the UK is skint. More skint than Dubai so I really question the benefits. But hey gotta think positive it might bring a few tourists over. Somethings better than nothing.


----------



## arfie

Richard Head said:


> In this economy, that's a bit like compiling a list of the top 10 best types of dogshit to step in. London in 2nd, who in their right mind would buy real estate anywhere in the UK right now when prices are on a steep slide?


Richard with prices having fallen 15% last year I guess London is a good long term investment especially with the Olympics coming up in 2012.


----------



## rexdmx

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Housing_and_Property/10278480.html

Abu Dhabi: Landlords cannot convert the residential buildings into hotel apartments, a senior official told Gulf News.

"We have rejected a number of applications from landlords who wanted to evict tenants to convert the property into hotel apartments," said Mohammad Rashid Al Nuaimi, head of the Rent Dispute Settlement Committee in Abu Dhabi.


----------



## speculator

234sale said:


> UK is in the Eye of the storm.. Brown and Blair fully responsible for all the pain.
> 
> UAE still has no National Debt. Currency the strongest it has ever been.
> 
> Tomorrow I sign a 1 year contract for work here, viva la Dubai. I'm not going back to my home country as its gong to be tough for a long time in the UK.


Tough for a long time. You aint kidding. This is the truth about the UK and im glad in a sense that I put some eggs in dynamic UAE:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...brings-Britain-to-the-edge-of-bankruptcy.html


----------



## Imre

*Deyaar secures strong fourth-quarter to record 105% increase in net profit in 2008 *


Dubai: Real estate company Deyaar Development reported on Sunday net profits of Dh1.104 billion for the 12-month period ending December 31, 2008, an increase of 105 per cent compared to Dh540 million achieved in the previous year.

During the same period, the company's revenues reached a record Dh2.973 billion, an increase of 136 per cent compared to revenues of Dh1.259 billion the previous year.

Deyaar also announced its financial results for the fourth quarter of 2008, including net profits of Dh343 million for the three months ending December 31, 2008, up 59 per cent compared to Dh216 million during the same period in 2007. 

The company's revenues for the fourth quarter of 2008 reached Dh676 million, up 10 per cent compared to Dh617 million during the corresponding period in 2007. 

The fourth-quarter numbers are inclusive of the portfolio revaluation and adjustments made in line with current market conditions.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10278729.html


----------



## boston101

Richard Head said:


> In this economy, that's a bit like compiling a list of the top 10 best types of dogshit to step in. London in 2nd, who in their right mind would buy real estate anywhere in the UK right now when prices are on a steep slide?


 
So is the pound which makes it a pretty good opportunity for the guys with dollars and dirhams...I think current dynamics create opportunity for many


----------



## Wannaberich

Freak Show
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/544592-tyson-and-holyfield-to-fight-in-abu-dhabi


----------



## Richard Head

^^ Boston, with almost every prediction you read saying that the pound will fall further, and UK real estate will continue to slide, anyone who dives in now with their dollars or dirhams is going to get hit on both counts in the short term. And if you're a long term investor why not wait another 3-6 months (or more) and potentially get 20 - 30% more for your $$$$


----------



## boston101

Interesting point of view. Would that mean more UK investors dumping their dubai investments in 3-6 months (potentially)?


----------



## smussuw

more affordable rents :banana:


----------



## AltinD

smussuw said:


> more affordable rents :banana:


more foreigners comming in


----------



## smussuw

more expensive rents :banana::banana:


----------



## 234sale

More people sharing again. ?

Natural Cycles like Nature.


----------



## Wannaberich

boston101 said:


> Interesting point of view. Would that mean more UK investors dumping their dubai investments in 3-6 months (potentially)?


I think the time to dump your Dubai property if you're a UK investor was when the pound hit 1.5 against the dollar.
At 1.38 and falling then why hold on?Wait 2/3 years for property prices to
recover and by then the pound will have strenghtend.So in that period the rise in your property value is swallowed up.
Better to sell if you can and bag a bargain in the UK.
Otherwise,sell,bring the money back to the UK,wait for sterling to grow strong,then buy in Dubai if the prices havent risen sharply.


----------



## lovedubai

Have you tried to sell? It's impossible at the moment, for off-plan at least.


----------



## Wannaberich

lovedubai said:


> Have you tried to sell? It's impossible at the moment, for off-plan at least.


Thats the catch,its not easy selling anything at the mo.
UK investors do have an advantage in being able to sell at a lower price than many others however.


----------



## Richard Head

boston101 said:


> Interesting point of view. Would that mean more UK investors dumping their dubai investments in 3-6 months (potentially)?


Quite possibly. But as wannaberich has pointed out in a roundabout way, if Dubai property values are now falling faster than the value of sterling v dollar, then the equity of such investors is declining still, so maybe they wait it out. Those who can afford to wait it out because they bought very early (me, for example), will likely wait. Those with less of a long term interest in Dubai, or who believe some of the nonsense talked on here about Dubai falling down a big hole and never recovering, might bail out soon. And that is where some of the distress sales might come from that make it partially a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Nobody has a crystal ball on this, but what is certain is that the fall of the pound will inevitably bring properties to market that investors may otherwise of hung onto. How many, and to what extent this specific issue might affect the overall market, I have absolutely no idea....................

.............hang around though, someone like first timer will be around shortly to give you his expert opinion and some precision data that will make everything absolutely crystal.


----------



## Wannaberich

I can understand UK investors hanging onto their properties.If you can't sell except for a giveaway price then maybe best to hold on.
Even if over a 2/3 year period,your villa price rises but the increase is swallowed up by a stronger pound you will probably have earned very good rent.More than what you would get in the UK(assuming rental prices don't nosedive as predicted).Although this may be cancelled out if you could bag a bargain in the UK.
Short term it looks like selling may be a better bet,especially if the pound hits something like 1.2.When the hell will that ever happen again.
On the other hand it could well be that in the long term those who have held on will be glad they did.I do think in the same way prices in Dubai nosedived much faster than in the UK,they will also rise much faster.I also still have no doubt that in future Dubai will be an amazing city.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Richard Head

^^ What he said


----------



## Wannaberich

^^ But highly influenced by him.


----------



## Goss

All of my instincts tell me to sell my Villa on the Palm and get money back to the UK to take advantage of weak pound.Then invest in the incredible deals going on in the UK at the moment.

Havnt done it yet though for some reason...


----------



## Smokeey

Is it possible for a non UAE resident to open a sterling account in any of the dubai banks? I'd like to move some money from the UK to Dubai but to keep it in sterling for the moment and not convert to AED just yet for obvious reasons


----------



## HappyLarry

Smokeey said:


> Is it possible for a non UAE resident to open a sterling account in any of the dubai banks? I'd like to move some money from the UK to Dubai but to keep it in sterling for the moment and not convert to AED just yet for obvious reasons


Unless you have got it hidden under the mattress or it is outside of UK and you want to avoid the taxman knowing about it, I can not see an advantage in opening a stirling acct in a UAE bank. If you could clarify then a better answer will be given by others more qualified. :cheers:


----------



## dubai_or_not

*Jumeirah Golf Estates - Leisurecorp*



worried1 said:


> Not Sanctuary Village but Sanctuary Falls:cheers:


...similarly, does anyone have a construction update on Valencia Grove - Leisurecorp started marketing some units on their web site...hno:


----------



## ianxgrant

*Doom and Gloom Merchants*

I arrived in Dubai yesterday for a 1 week break (from Perth Australia) and was in the Mall of the Emirates yesterday - Believe me, there is still plenty of money here. My friends tried to book flights with Skywards points from the UK for October 2009 and it was already very busy. Don't comment on Dubai unless you have been there as it is nowhere near as one dimensional as some people make it sound. Any investments over a 3 year period are good IMO. This is still a great place to visit, especially if you have a bit of cash.....


----------



## dubaifirst

Joannides said:


> ‘There are fantastic deals there’
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090124/BUSINESS/684529491/1005
> 
> Property could hit bottom this year
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090124/BUSINESS/636509410


Interesting article. Marina prices are from 850 aed/sqft, that is nealry 60% of peak last year, are we back to 2003 prices?


----------



## arfie

dubaifirst said:


> Interesting article. Marina prices are from 850 aed/sqft, that is nealry 60% of peak last year, are we back to 2003 prices?


Can you find anything i the marina below 1000 dhs per sq ft which is complete or will be complete over the next yr ?


----------



## Wannaberich

Goss said:


> All of my instincts tell me to sell my Villa on the Palm and get money back to the UK to take advantage of weak pound.Then invest in the incredible deals going on in the UK at the moment.
> 
> Havnt done it yet though for some reason...


If you sell you know for sure your'll get a great exchange rate and you know for sure your'll pick up a bargain in the UK.
Dont sell and you dont know where villa prices will be in 3 years or what the exchange rate will be.
In this case I would personally play it safe.
Maybe you could buy an identical villa back on the palm later this year if prices drop more and the pound gets stronger and bag 100K with it.


----------



## THEPOINT

dubaifirst said:


> Interesting article. Marina prices are from 850 aed/sqft, that is nealry 60% of peak last year, are we back to 2003 prices?/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> My advice if you can buy at 850 aed psf get your cheque book out - not that anything will actually be available at that price


----------



## arfie

THEPOINT said:


> dubaifirst said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article. Marina prices are from 850 aed/sqft, that is nealry 60% of peak last year, are we back to 2003 prices?/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> My advice if you can buy at 850 aed psf get your cheque book out - not that anything will actually be available at that price
> 
> 
> 
> Totally agree you will find nothing at 850. Infact I would be surprised to find anything in the region of 1000 aed psf for developments which are complete or under construction which are making good progress.
Click to expand...


----------



## Goss

Wannaberich said:


> If you sell you know for sure your'll get a great exchange rate and you know for sure your'll pick up a bargain in the UK.
> Dont sell and you dont know where villa prices will be in 3 years or what the exchange rate will be.
> In this case I would personally play it safe.
> Maybe you could buy an identical villa back on the palm later this year if prices drop more and the pound gets stronger and bag 100K with it.


The problem is we really love the villa and our trips to Dubai.However I really feel hand on heart that the money would be safer in the UK-particularly invested in property there.
I will probably leave it and hope for the best as we dont neeed to sell.
On a positive note we are renting it out regularly on Holiday Lets for between £6-8K a week (less 20% agency)
agency fees.


----------



## Wannaberich

If you dont need to sell and you love it then keep it.
Even if prices drop further it doesnt matter.In a few years when the Palm/Trump Hotel etc is complete,and many more projects around Dubai are complete,it will be worth a fortune.

The fact it rents for 6-8k a week doesnt even make selling an option.


----------



## shiraj_hoque

Rob, why did you invest in CT4? what attracted you about DSC and Memon?


----------



## Freestyler

Wannaberich said:


> Thats the catch,its not easy selling anything at the mo.
> UK investors do have an advantage in being able to sell at a lower price than many others however.


I'm trying to sell at -10% of OP, still no one is buying. hno:


----------



## speculator

Goss said:


> The problem is we really love the villa and our trips to Dubai.However I really feel hand on heart that the money would be safer in the UK-particularly invested in property there.
> I will probably leave it and hope for the best as we dont neeed to sell.
> On a positive note we are renting it out regularly on Holiday Lets for between £6-8K a week (less 20% agency)
> agency fees.


Id really be interested to find out how itd be safer in the UK ?


----------



## Rob Timpie

shiraj_hoque said:


> Rob, why did you invest in CT4? what attracted you about DSC and Memon?



Location, location and location...
I have an apartment on 18th floor (2 B/R) with full lake view (if it ever gets build).
At least Memon has their Escrow in place and other Memon projects are being build now. 
I don't pay anymore untill things happen, according to RERA rules.
As a lot of projects in DSC haven't started yet I'm not extremely worried at the moment (only a bit...).
Still think DSC is the most beautiful project in Dubai when ready.


----------



## TDemirel

*Buy One - Get One Free*

Somebody in this forum saying that, the days of "buy one - get one free" will come. Here we go:
BUY ONE OFFICE GET ONE OFFICE FREE

Project Name Mazaya Business Avenue
Building Name BB2
Floor No 27
Op 1020 p/sqft
Area 1760 Sqft
Area 1260 sqft
Sp 0%
Paid 40%
Plan 70/30

Today, I saw a Springs 4M for sale @1.4 mio.

I hope these distress deals will end soon. I mean no more job cuts etc.
Because every buyer seeing this prices things as general for whole the market.
They dragging down the prices sharply.


----------



## smussuw

half that price and it would start looking reasonable :banana:


----------



## Wannaberich

Got a call from one of the big 3 agents today.Told me they are selling 1 bed Discovery Garden units for 625.000aed.
The market is well and truly dead.


----------



## Naz UK

Well, quite frankly, anything that gives Dubai's agents sleepless nights had got to be a good thing.


----------



## Goss

speculator said:


> Id really be interested to find out how itd be safer in the UK ?


You have been reading this forum?


----------



## TDemirel

arfie said:


> THEPOINT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Totally agree you will find nothing at 850. Infact I would be surprised to find anything in the region of 1000 aed psf for developments which are complete or under construction which are making good progress.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Guys
> 
> But looks like another threshold is broken.
> 
> Dear All
> hope you all will be fine. have a look towards the detail about property is given below and also check out the attachment file .
> 
> Building The Zen Tower
> Type 3 b/d
> Area 2192 sqft
> Sp AED 830 p/sqft
> 
> Ready Apartments
> 
> I don't know the building, so can't judge the quality / view etc.
Click to expand...


----------



## Doctor_UK

hi everyone

one of my friends is in trouble and is unable to make further payments on his property hno:.

he wanted to ask about defaulting. 

if you have paid 40% of the price for an apartment and then you default on further payments... do you get anything back or all is lost?

thanks for your help


----------



## docc

TDemirel said:


> Somebody in this forum saying that, the days of "buy one - get one free" will come. Here we go:
> BUY ONE OFFICE GET ONE OFFICE FREE
> 
> Project Name Mazaya Business Avenue
> Building Name  BB2
> Floor No 27
> Op 1020 p/sqft
> Area 1760 Sqft
> Area 1260 sqft
> Sp 0%
> Paid 40%
> Plan 70/30
> 
> Today, I saw a Springs 4M for sale @1.4 mio.
> 
> I hope these distress deals will end soon. I mean no more job cuts etc.
> Because every buyer seeing this prices things as general for whole the market.
> They dragging down the prices sharply.


Do you even know what buy one get one free means? It means that when you pay the full price for one item you get another item of FULL VALUE for free.

I hope i cleared that up for you. If not, i'd be happy to be a little more detailed in my explanation.


----------



## Maha

Doctor_UK said:


> hi everyone
> 
> one of my friends is in trouble and is unable to make further payments on his property hno:.
> 
> he wanted to ask about defaulting.
> 
> if you have paid 40% of the price for an apartment and then you default on further payments... do you get anything back or all is lost?
> 
> thanks for your help


I think they give him what he paid; did he check the contract?

Anyway, I wouldn't focus too much on those unusual deals. I was offered a one bedroom in Jumeirah Village for 800 dhs/s.f in June (probably the peak). He simply needed the money urgently.

Most people are still able to pay their installments so they can still wait; hence they are not in a hurry to sell, especially that no one is in a hurry to buy.

Having said that, prices have indeed gone down quite a lot; but not really that low. I was told by an agent a couple of weeks ago that while selling has almost halted, renting is increasing.


----------



## Opus 2009

Does anyone know if Rera formalised the below rule? It was reported in the press earlier this month. As per this, no more than 20% is to be paid until the escrow account is reconciled to the construction progress:

Starting from January 1, 2009, developers and banks have been ordered to stop taking payments more than 20 per cent of the cost of properties from buyers or investors until construction begins, a Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) official has revealed.

"We have sent out letters to 100 developers – as well as having meetings with them and lending banks and institutions – telling them to take payments from buyers worth only up to 20 per cent of the contract value," Essa Saeed Ahmed Al Mansoori, Head of the Trust Accounts Section at Rera's Real Estate Development Trust Account Department, told Emirates Business.

"With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai visa policy reconsidered
Monday, January 26, 2009

Catherine Deshayes

A delegation from the Dubai Property Society has urged the city's chamber of commerce to ask the Government to re-consider its visa policy for residential and commercial freehold property owners... 

The association wants full visa rights restored as an urgent move to help combat the downward trend in the property sector. They believe restoration will encourage more foreigners to buy in Dubai. 

The DPS also outlined its concerns about the challenges that the property sectors face in Dubai where some areas have seen real estate prices plunge by up to 40 per cent. 

HE Hisham Abdullah Al Shirawi, second Vice Chairman of the Dubai Chamber of Commerce & Industry, said it was clear that the real estate sector is facing dire challenges and immediate action is needed to address the situation. 

He advised the Society to present a unified voice with which to address the Government and relevant authorities to show clear unanimity on the steps to be taken including collaboration between the property sector and the banks to address issues of liquidity and investor confidence. 

Al Shirawi also encouraged all parties to stay out of the courts where possible and to utilize mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) available at the Dubai International Arbitration Centre as a means to coming to an amicable settlement whenever there was a dispute. 

'We have put across a number of recommendations to restore the investors' faith in the property market including the need to inject sufficient cash and to provide mortgages and financial assistance to the developers so as to meet the demands in the real estate sector,' said Ahmad Al Matrooshi, Chairman of the DPS. 

'We also urged the Chamber officials to appeal to the Government to re-consider its visa policy for foreigners, especially that is linked to residential and commercial freehold property ownership,' he added. 

Al Matrooshi also called for more liquidity and flexibility in payment across the sector's value chain that will give the real estate sector some breathing space. 

The Society is now going to set out a detailed case to be presented to the Federal authorities asking for a clear and unambiguous position on the owners' residence visa issue. 

The Society will also provide an outline on the need for a civil body for foreclosures/repossessions. The Chamber will make these representations to the Government authorities. 

It will also seek clarification from the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) as to the raft of legislations released by them in light of the difficulties faced by the sector.


----------



## paul66

*AJMAN CONFIDENT OF STABILITY AND GROWTH IN THE NEAR FUTURE*

Ajman's property market is moving steadily and will revive in the coming few months, a senior government official said.

"We seek to implant confidence in the minds of investors and buyers of real estate units. The market is doing well and is moving steadily especially after it absorbed the fallout of the global financial crisis," Arabic newspaper Al Khaleej quoted Ajman Land Department General Manager Harib Al Aryani as saying.

The meeting was held to assess the first month's progress of the realty market and was aimed at exchanging views on the changes seen in the industry.

Al Aryani hoped the market will revive in the coming months, especially after reactivating the new Amiri decrees and instructing department staffers to extend help and facilities to customers.

He called on all developers and investors to abide by laws and decrees issued in the interest of all.

Earlier this year, the Ajman Government amended a law creating Ajman Real Estate Regulatory Establishment to regulate the emirate's property and construction sector.

The new body will enforce an escrow account law, a system under which all money collected by developers from buyers is used solely for the construction of a project.

It will also be responsible for licensing property developers and supervising their activities as well as regulating property transactions

Awali Real Estate Investments believes an authority of this nature could launch a new era of real estate development in Ajman, regulating the business of developers, investors and buyers alike.

"Establishment of such an authority at this crucial time is very significant, and could lead the emirate to be the first to recover from the effects of the financial crisis."

Ali Al Nemer, Awali Company Managing Director, said: "The establishment of the real estate authority at this current time is a sound and intelligent move. It reflects a very distinct and ambitious vision to turn Ajman into a foreign investment destination, on the one hand, and to strengthen Ajman's status in the UAE property market, on the other."

Ajman saw 33 per cent of foreign investments compared to 11 per cent for other emirates, the company said in a press release.

"In a time where companies worldwide are busy seeking outlets for their financial dilemmas, Ajman is developing means to regulate property market movement, preparing the market for the post-crisis period. Ajman has worked for years to develop regulations and improve its infrastructure, and has in the process attracted real estate investments in excess of Dh400 billion in 2008 according to reports," he added. Fahad Sattar Dero, Chief Executive Officer of Sweet Homes Group, told Emirates Business that they expect the market to grow, but at a slower pace.

"We still see the market growing yet at a slower pace. Property developers will focus more on getting their projects finished and they will be aided by a drop in commodity prices and construction costs. Property is never a deal of loss as it is always something that is in constant demand. It is the personal position of the property holder that makes it so. The real estate market is experiencing the effects of a global credit crunch but there are investors who are still on the lookout for a good bargain," he added.

26/01/2009
source: http://www.tigerzilla.com/properties/news.html


----------



## Wannaberich

Question 1.
Is issuing visas going to make that much difference to property prices?
Question 2.
WTF are the banks going to start lending again?!
Wheres doc,he said he knows for sure they will start next month?


----------



## DubaiDee

"Starting from January 1, 2009, developers and banks have been ordered to stop taking payments more than 20 per cent of the cost of properties from buyers or investors until construction begins, a Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) official has revealed"
I like many others have some questions for RERA. Has this rule been fully implemented and does this also apply to Nakheel, PJA villas? Also, when a developer collects 40% for a tower that is nowhere near even being started, what is the timeframe for getting a refund and will this be paid in full plus interest? I have searched various threads on skyscraper and any other furums I come across and see so many with similar type questions and I remain none the wiser!! I have infact emailed RERA, received the automatic response but then nothing...and a few weeks have passed...I would like to try and call them, anyone have contact details?


----------



## DubaiDee

I have since found the telephone number so will try and speak to them. Meantime if anyone has any comments/answers to my questions it would be good to hear from you.


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> Question 1.
> Is issuing visas going to make that much difference to property prices?
> Question 2.
> WTF are the banks going to start lending again?!
> Wheres doc,he said he knows for sure they will start next month?


Hey mate,

I'm still here 

Banks will start lending again from Feb-March from what i have heard. Ofcourse, it's not going to be the same as before which i honestly believe is a good thing as that would again lead to more problems.

We'll all find out soon enough


----------



## Imre

DubaiDee said:


> "Starting from January 1, 2009, developers and banks have been ordered to stop taking payments more than 20 per cent of the cost of properties from buyers or investors until construction begins, a Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) official has revealed"
> I like many others have some questions for RERA. Has this rule been fully implemented and does this also apply to Nakheel, PJA villas? Also, when a developer collects 40% for a tower that is nowhere near even being started, what is the timeframe for getting a refund and will this be paid in full plus interest? I have searched various threads on skyscraper and any other furums I come across and see so many with similar type questions and I remain none the wiser!! I have infact emailed RERA, received the automatic response but then nothing...and a few weeks have passed...I would like to try and call them, anyone have contact details?


RERA is completely useless, what is the point if that? Have they ever solved any problems?

Anyway , nobody keeps this rule, Emaar, Nakheel etc.. still ask payments of those projects which have never started yet.


----------



## Wannaberich

Cheers docc.I'm now making all of my future plans based of what you just wrote.


----------



## Imre

Doctor_UK said:


> hi everyone
> 
> one of my friends is in trouble and is unable to make further payments on his property hno:.
> 
> he wanted to ask about defaulting.
> 
> if you have paid 40% of the price for an apartment and then you default on further payments... do you get anything back or all is lost?
> 
> thanks for your help


Law No. (13) of 2008
Regulating the Interim Real Estate Register in the Emirate of Dubai
WE, Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Ruler of Dubai

Article (11)
1. In the event that the purchaser defaults on any term of the contract he made
with the developer for the sale of the Real Estate Unit, the developer should
notify the Department accordingly and the Department will then give the
purchaser 30 days notice to fulfill his contractual obligations, by hand,
registered post or email.
2. If at the end of the period referred to in item 1 of this Article the purchaser has
not fulfilled his contractual obligations, the developer may cancel the contract
and repay the purchaser his money less a deduction that does not exceed
30% of the monies paid by the purchaser.

http://www.eredubai.com/uploads/dubai-property-laws/no13_2008.pdf


this rules still exist?


----------



## Wannaberich

Imre said:


> RERA is completely useless
> .


Plus Dubai has a ruler who seems to have lost interest.
Great combination.


----------



## Imre

finally some business,my friend bought a studio today for 400.000 AED at the Discovery Gardens, good deal

He will buy a Jumeirah Parks villa as well. (paid a deposit today, price is 2.55 m AED)


----------



## kaichosan

*the crest*

does any anybody have any information about AL BARAKAH and their projects in marmooka city, like the tallest tower and other 4. heard the news about the ceo of the company mr. imran khan is having problems with the investors and had some police case etc and is in hide for last couple of months??? 
plz update!


----------



## fat & Happy

Hi Dubaidee

Have you the contact details for RERA. I also emailed and received auto response then nothing.


----------



## docc

Wannaberich said:


> Cheers docc.I'm now making all of my future plans based of what you just wrote.


Lol, i'd strongly suggest against making any decisions based on hearsay. Although i've heard the lending news through multiple sources, i myself will make business decisions only once it becomes OFFICIAL.


----------



## makerian

I am in the midst of selling a property and my agent claims that his fee has to be paid at the time of signing the MOU. I feel this is hogwash but can any agent out there shed light on this pls. This is what i was quoted

"Well the commission to the agencies is now to be paid as soon as the deposit is paid. Its according to RERA itself. The laws changed effective immediately from 1st of jan 2009."


----------



## KayHaitch

*Canal Residence West*

Hi Guys!
I have invested in a 1 bed flat in Venetian Bldg and with the current downturn in Dxb real estate was keen to find out if the project was really going to go ahead or whether is would slow down and eventually stop all together. 
Last week, myself and a few other investors visited DSC to meet with their representatives to discuss the project status, delays in the project, unfair payment schedule (not tied to progress), lack of regular progress updates from DSC and the recent letter for registration etc..DSC representatives acknowledged our concerns and promised to get back to us within a week.

With all credit to them, they advised us by email that all payments for the CRW will be held until end May 2009, following they will review the progress and then advise a progress linked payment schedule. You should be receiving an email very soon - i suggest if you do not get this within the next week then email them and enquire about it.
We were taken to the site and shown around all over DSC. CRW construction works for three buildings by UNEC were in full swing although delayed from their own schedule. shoring, excavation and raft foundations for all three bldgs were almost completed. Excavation works for Lift pits at the Venetian Bldg was ongoing. The other two bldgs were slightly ahead of the Venetian Bldg with temporary formwork for basement 1 installation in progress.
They also advised us at the meeting that the registration does not need to be done until end of 2009. 
I have some photos, I will upload shortly..
We need to approach the Developer in numbers so that they understand that we are communicating with each other and all of us could raise negative publicity if they do not take us seriously.


----------



## Wannaberich

Just seen on the website of one of the big 3.
3 x 1 beds at Discovery Gardens, all 969 sq.ft, all 643,750.
All the other DG units are prices as normal.

Why don't these idiots just offer these prices out to clients without publishing them and dragging down everyone elses prices.
My guess is all 3 belong to the same desperate seller.


----------



## MikeMuz

Rob Timpie said:


> Location, location and location...
> I have an apartment on 18th floor (2 B/R) with full lake view (if it ever gets build).
> At least Memon has their Escrow in place and other Memon projects are being build now.
> I don't pay anymore untill things happen, according to RERA rules.
> As a lot of projects in DSC haven't started yet I'm not extremely worried at the moment (only a bit...).
> Still think DSC is the most beautiful project in Dubai when ready.


I don't think theres any reason to be worriedhno: With the amount of construction going on in Dubai its a wonder there are any contractors left to build anything^^ Memon arnt the only developer struggling:nuts: there are some nightmare stories out there bout some developers.! Memon might be slow but at least they're making some progress.
And your right Rob DSC will be the MUTS NUTS when finished:dance:


----------



## durango05

Dear All,
its a great forum to learn so much ab dubai real estate.
guys i need help... i need to know the different service charges psf for different properties across dubai freehold area... as wats charged in Intl City, DG, greens, Marina, etc... (this service fees which is inclusive of maintainance fees etc but minus Chiller fees) i need to know as some1 in highup needs a justification for the charges and wats the benchmark n comparison... 
can any of u have any data or analysis, plz do share with me..


----------



## shiraj_hoque

yeah, I think DSC will kick butt big time..... just have to make sure that they complete like planned and force slower developers to raise their game. I still cant beleive the prices of apartments on Memon website. Will people still buy at those prices??


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai property prices may fall 20% - Emaar chief


Property prices in Dubai could fall about 20 percent on average, the chairman of the emirate's largest developer, Emaar Properties , said in remarks published on Monday without giving a timeframe.

Mohamed Alabbar also said Emaar's financial position was strong but the firm had no intention to buy back shares, but it might consider delaying some projects if market conditions indicated a need to postpone putting new units for sale.

Asked about views that real estate prices could fall as much as 60 percent, Mohamed Alabbar told Al Khaleej newspaper: "In my opinion a decline of 60 percent is illogical. There will be a variation in the percentage of decline based on the location and level of units."
"Prices in some areas will fall 10 percent in others the decline would reach 30 percent, on average I expect the decline to reach 20 percent even if there were some units being sold cheaper because their owners are in dire need for cash."

by ReutersThis email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it on Monday, 26 January 2009

Property prices in Dubai could fall about 20 percent on average, the chairman of the emirate's largest developer, Emaar Properties , said in remarks published on Monday without giving a timeframe.

Mohamed Alabbar also said Emaar's financial position was strong but the firm had no intention to buy back shares, but it might consider delaying some projects if market conditions indicated a need to postpone putting new units for sale.

Asked about views that real estate prices could fall as much as 60 percent, Mohamed Alabbar told Al Khaleej newspaper: "In my opinion a decline of 60 percent is illogical. There will be a variation in the percentage of decline based on the location and level of units."

"Prices in some areas will fall 10 percent in others the decline would reach 30 percent, on average I expect the decline to reach 20 percent even if there were some units being sold cheaper because their owners are in dire need for cash."


Alabbar said earlier this month that demand for real estate in Dubai is likely to outweigh supply this year despite the fallout of the global financial crisis.

Alabbar also heads a crisis committee set up by the Dubai government to respond to the global financial crisis, which brought to an end an economic boom in the Gulf Arab region.

Property prices in the emirate fell 23 percent in the last quarter of 2008, HSBC said last week.

Alabbar said Emaar has laid off 100 employees after the financial crisis but was not facing any financial problems.

"I believe we are finished now with the layoffs and this might be the same for other companies," he said.

"We do not have financial problems, the financial policy that we have followed over the past years in preserving liquidity despite the pressure we faced at general assemblies from shareholder calling for higher dividend helped the company enjoy a good financial position now.

"As for our projects we are studying them in the light of the current situation. If there were (projects) planned for 2009 and should be postponed we might postpone them to 2010 based on studying market conditions and what can be sold."

He did not specify any projects but said the flagship Burj Dubai development was due for completion within a year.

Asked if Emaar intends to buyback shares, Alabbar said: "It is more important for the firm to retain liquidity."

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/544789-dubai-property-prices-may-fall-20---emaar-chief


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> Law No. (13) of 2008
> Regulating the Interim Real Estate Register in the Emirate of Dubai
> WE, Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Ruler of Dubai
> 
> Article (11)
> 1. In the event that the purchaser defaults on any term of the contract he made
> with the developer for the sale of the Real Estate Unit, the developer should
> notify the Department accordingly and the Department will then give the
> purchaser 30 days notice to fulfill his contractual obligations, by hand,
> registered post or email.
> 2. If at the end of the period referred to in item 1 of this Article the purchaser has
> not fulfilled his contractual obligations, the developer may cancel the contract
> and repay the purchaser his money less a deduction that does not exceed
> 30% of the monies paid by the purchaser.
> 
> http://www.eredubai.com/uploads/dubai-property-laws/no13_2008.pdf
> 
> 
> this rules still exist?


Can anyone clarify if the new freehold laws supersede Sale and Purchase agreements signed in Jan 2006?

Some developers are now trying to implement clauses that they made up themselves without reference to the freehold laws.


----------



## aviduser

Dubai is now caught in a downward spiral, closest similar bubble has surely got to be be 1920's Wall Street, before the crash. 

If a Ruler of anywhere says anything positive we know not to believe them, the CEO above says 20% HSBC says 23% and and anecdotal evidence says the figure is closer to 40% and rising.

The major problem with Dubai is that all those in charge had no idea what they were doing, they were advised by well paid ex-pats who knew they could milk as much money as possible from them in fees and consultancy If they appealed to the EGOs of the rulers. (You think Sheik Mo has one of the Worlds biggest boats for no reason)

Thus they knew it was unsustainable, but also knew that while they kept thinking bigger and better the sky was the limit. Now though I am pretty sure those that were doing the advising have left, and pretty quickly. The problem now though is that the rulers here have pretty much only ever known good times, they have no idea how to deal with the bad times, a time when you absolutely NEED the best and the brightest to guide you, after all any fool can make money in a rising market. The recent RERA announcements tell us all we need to know, the best and the brightest are most definitely NOT running Dubai.

We have all subsequently done our bit to essentially ruin the Country, for every property we flipped was another nail, however small, in the Countries future. 

We have entered a new economic time, things will get worse around the World, let alone Dubai, before it gets better. 

By then though things will have moved on, Dubai will have lost it's momentum, far too many people have been burnt for this to simply recover, even when the rest of the World gets back on it's feet. 

Reading this forum, it's pretty clear that even without the financial crisis this all would have happened sooner rather later. 

In a developing market such as this you simply can't annoy this many people and expect to get away with it. 2-4 year delays AND taking payments is not acceptable. Pushing service charges from 7 to 25 AED PSF is not acceptable. Car parks instead of beach parks, 2 gyms instead of 10, terrible build quality, no views, broken promises left and right and finally the Hammer to hit all the nails, no Visa's and therefore a FUNDAMENTAL breach of trust not just between a developer but between Us and the Country, that breach of trust can't be reversed, it showed true contempt for us as investors, it simply said we have made our money, we don't care about yours. 

Greed killed Dubai, taking away visas dug the grave and the financial crisis buried it.


----------



## Peter Pan in Dubai

Dear KayHaitch, 

We are in the process of preparing a letter "kind of a petition" to DSC which we suggest we go all together to deliver it to someone from the senior management team. Hope you & your fellow CRW contacts would join hands with us. 

I will share soon this letter on this forum for everyones inputs & suggestions...


----------



## desertweasel

Interestingly am currently involved in setting up a new business in Dubai, a business that is looking at a rapidly eroding potential customer base.
When working through recovery scenarios we quickly came to the conclusion that a downturn in Dubai is nothing like a downturn elsewhere.

In the real world in a recession people stop borrowing, some lose their jobs and all slow their spending, when the upturn arrives, those that have jobs look around, decide that times are better and start spending again, shortly after jobs return to the market. 

In Dubai however people lose jobs and leave...those that are left may also leave since Dubai is really about the money as there is no investment in community or family for most people here (obviously locals excepted)

So even when an upturn arrives here the market has left the country, the threshold is much higher to convince people to move back here than it is to convince real world people to simply open their wallets and start spending again.
Add to this a media that is afraid to report bad news which gives us a society driven by rumour and I worry that we could be in for a serious decline. 
Getting high earning people back to Dubai bringing their spending with them could be incredibly difficult, long after the recession is over the scare stories will live on.
Numbers may well stay the same as people flow in to fill the vacuum but the quality and money is leaving and leaving fast. Result is a shift down in the combined spending power of the population and much much lower demand for real estate, and this includes rents. 
Possibly over pessimistic but nothing I have seen yet counters it.


----------



## 234sale

aviduser said:


> Dubai is now caught in a downward spiral, closest similar bubble has surely got to be be 1920's Wall Street, before the crash.
> 
> Greed killed Dubai, taking away visas dug the grave and the financial crisis buried it.


hno: No Dubai isn't dead, yes the cash investor who speculated on growth has lost his cash. Most people are not in massive negative equity, more lost the cash they played with.

The Boom everywhere is over, Dubai will be a great place to avoid the torrent of TAX and Social Unrest which is coming to Europe and USA. You can be kicked out of Dubai, which do you think will crumble first.

Just think,, you live in Brighton and you buy yourself a new BMW / Audi / Merc, you park it on the street. I think you'll come back and the ar will of been keyd, kicked, scratched or shat on.

If you have money, Dubai is still the place to keep it. Yes everything is too expensive,, If rents can halve then living costs can go down. But still from the destressed prices I have seen, yields are 10%. 

If I buy a distressed house in the UK, I am only likely to get 4%. Then the question is how much Tax will I have to pay on the income if I become a UK resident and have more than 1 property.

The Clown Brown, and his Circus are stuffed,, they are already working out ways to tax our Grand Children.

So the question I put to you all is Dubai or UK.... where do you want to stay for the majority of your time.

My answer is still Dubai or anywhere in the UAE.


----------



## sameerl

There is little doubt today that in dubai we have not yet seen the bottom. Although distress deals are rising (And are increasingly attractive), there is a tangible feeling of a loss of confidence. Given teh flip flops of policy direction by the authorities, as well as their unwillingness (atleast thus far) to acknowledge the gravity of the crisis, and you have a typical boom bust scenario where the press reports in glee about the hubris that was in dubai. However, dubai has seen economic contractions before, from the asian crisis in 1997-1998 where equity prices plummeted 75% (no tangible data exists on real estate prices, as there was no freehold then, and data reporting was non existent, although anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that real estate prices fell by upto 40% at that time). Tourism levels dropped, many businesses went bankrupt and the talk of the town amongst expatriates was that dubai was never going to see the good old days again. If you go further back, there was a massive bank run in 1990-91, when BCCi collapsed, and GDP growth fell to an anemic 2% per year. I am not arguing that this recession is the same or even typical of earlier recessions (it is far worse, and will take far longer for dubai to extricate itself of this mess), even more so because of the inconsistent policies that have been put into place. But even these inconsistencies are not new to dubai. You have to look at the overall context of economic growth, and dubai's place as a logistical hub as well as an entrepot for exports and reexports remains intact. 
What dubai needs now is 1)transparency in data reporting (an exercise which it seems to be improving at, but is still woefully inadequate compared to the rest of teh gcc states, let alone the rest of the world) 2) an aggressive stimulus package or a series of packages (partly unveiled through the budget, yet surprisingly hardly communicated when questions were raised and 3)a communications strategy that shows that the leadership is tackling the crisis (or atleast attempting to) head on.

Will the above stem the rot? I doubt it in the short to medium term. This crisis is partly local and partly global, and market forces have to play itself out. Prices will fall further; there is little doubt about that. I hve no idea how long this downturn will last. But confidence is a funny variable; it has a tendency of appearing and disappearing very quickly. Dubai's advantage is that it has a first class infrastructure base from which to buiild its position of regional center of commerce. It has to regain its cost advantage. And its regulatory environemnt is now at the test. RERA, for all its failings, seems to be getting better, albeit at a pace that is almost glacial. But communication and transparency are the only variables that will breed confidence. And somehow Dubai does not have its act together in this department. As far as asset prices are concerned, they have reached attractive levels, and are being selectively purchased. But on a broader level, it is likely that they will head even lower as distress sales rise, and more layoffs are announced.


----------



## KayHaitch

*CRW*

Hi Peter Pan,
From the meeting we had, it seemed very clear that DSC were serious in doing something about the current situation. but once again the latest is:
1. No further payments till end May 09.
2. DSC will then review the rate of progress achieved by the contractor (UNEC) then prepare a revised payment plan linked to site progress based on the contractors forecast assuming that the contractor is able to work to his schedule. Actually - here I suggested to them that they need to link it to ACTUAL site progress with specific milestones such as structure or superstructure complete, Internal Finishes complete, MEP Final Fix Complete then last Handover. Each of these milestones must be certifies by professional Project Management Company or QS.
3. Regular official progress updates will be sent to all
4. Registration fee 2% not to be paid till end of 2009.

I cannot speak for the other guys yet, but I am almost certain we will join hands with you in this.


----------



## peacesells

True Blue said:


> Can anyone clarify if the new freehold laws supersede Sale and Purchase agreements signed in Jan 2006?
> 
> Some developers are now trying to implement clauses that they made up themselves without reference to the freehold laws.


If we're talking about the rule of what the developer has to pay back in case the client defaults, then yes, a contract signed in Jan 06 supecedes the current rule.


----------



## peacesells

makerian said:


> I am in the midst of selling a property and my agent claims that his fee has to be paid at the time of signing the MOU. I feel this is hogwash but can any agent out there shed light on this pls. This is what i was quoted
> 
> "Well the commission to the agencies is now to be paid as soon as the deposit is paid. Its according to RERA itself. The laws changed effective immediately from 1st of jan 2009."


I'm not aware of any law or rule regarding this matter. In all deals where we were the sole agents, we took cheques from clients at the time of signing the MOU and cashed them only when the deal went through (the contract explicitly stated we were not to cash before the deal is done).


----------



## KayHaitch

*CRW*



shiraj_hoque said:


> Please upload those pictures. I have you have pictures of the whole site.


Sorry Sjiraj,
The photos were only of Venetian Building Progress!


----------



## peacesells

desertweasel said:


> Interestingly am currently involved in setting up a new business in Dubai, a business that is looking at a rapidly eroding potential customer base.
> When working through recovery scenarios we quickly came to the conclusion that a downturn in Dubai is nothing like a downturn elsewhere.
> 
> In the real world in a recession people stop borrowing, some lose their jobs and all slow their spending, when the upturn arrives, those that have jobs look around, decide that times are better and start spending again, shortly after jobs return to the market.
> 
> In Dubai however people lose jobs and leave...those that are left may also leave since Dubai is really about the money as there is no investment in community or family for most people here (obviously locals excepted)
> 
> So even when an upturn arrives here the market has left the country, the threshold is much higher to convince people to move back here than it is to convince real world people to simply open their wallets and start spending again.
> Add to this a media that is afraid to report bad news which gives us a society driven by rumour and I worry that we could be in for a serious decline.
> Getting high earning people back to Dubai bringing their spending with them could be incredibly difficult, long after the recession is over the scare stories will live on.
> Numbers may well stay the same as people flow in to fill the vacuum but the quality and money is leaving and leaving fast. Result is a shift down in the combined spending power of the population and much much lower demand for real estate, and this includes rents.
> Possibly over pessimistic but nothing I have seen yet counters it.


I agree with your train of thought regarding the population of Dubai. It is an inevitability that there will be a point in time where Dubai's 'fundamental' conditions are back to normal but there will not be enough people or spending power in the population to drive the machine forward. This, in my opinion, is an excellent opportunity because sooner or later, fundamentals will start attracting the people and the capital back into the economy. If your business survives the downturn and is ready to capitalize on this growth, you will be miles ahead of the competition (who will only start setting up when they see that things are improving and others are making money). 

The hard part is surviving the down turn.


----------



## 234sale

It was never promised that we would have a crash. Unlike the UK.


----------



## dbxdude

*There is only one thing stopping buyers*

IMHO prices now are to good, great even. Town houses for 2m and under, huge mansions for 4.5m (J.islands), Palm villas for under 8 (low numbers), massive penthouses for 4m, 1 beds in JLT for 600k to 1m. Yields of 10,12,15 or 17%. But still no buyers..... wana know why? 

No finance. Thats the only reason. That alone. 

If you can borrow at 7% and get 12% return its a no brainer. But you can not borrow hardly anything. 

At some point banks will have to start lending, thats how they make their money, when they do, buyers will return and it will be quick, because eveyone knows where the prices were b4 and as soon as its apparent they are heading up again it will be a frenzy. Simple.


----------



## 234sale

This will be the situation for at least another 6month IMO, few loans.


----------



## tehsin123

dbxdude said:


> IMHO prices now are to good, great even. Town houses for 2m and under, huge mansions for 4.5m (J.islands), Palm villas for under 8 (low numbers), massive penthouses for 4m, 1 beds in JLT for 600k to 1m. Yields of 10,12,15 or 17%. But still no buyers..... wana know why?
> 
> No finance. Thats the only reason. That alone.
> 
> If you can borrow at 7% and get 12% return its a no brainer. But you can not borrow hardly anything.
> 
> At some point banks will have to start lending, thats how they make their money, when they do, buyers will return and it will be quick, because eveyone knows where the prices were b4 and as soon as its apparent they are heading up again it will be a frenzy. Simple.


In my opinion, prices are still very high. Compared to what? Compared to other international options. Here for a good 4 B/R townhouse or villa, your budget should be $ 1M or little less @ AED psqf. Why won't I go to Canada, US or Australia for half that price, or even less. I bought a new house in Canada 3 years ago for C$400,000 (i.e. US$ 350,000) 4 B/R, 3000 sqf, excellent community with schools, roads, parkings, hospitals and other facilities. On top of that government guarantees of workmanship and quality. If you have more money, you can also "buy" permanent residency with all rights.

What additional Dubai offers for 2 or 3 times the price with no visa guarantee and questionable quality. In my opinion, prices need to adjust much more compared to international options. Most investors are international, they do look at other things also.


----------



## kaichosan

*the crest*

does any anybody have any information about AL BARAKAH and their projects in marmooka city, like the tallest tower and other 4. heard the news about the ceo of the company mr. imran khan is having problems with the investors and had some police case etc and is in hide for last couple of months??? 
plz update!


----------



## DubaiDee

fat & Happy said:


> Hi Dubaidee
> 
> Have you the contact details for RERA. I also emailed and received auto response then nothing.


Hello Fat & Happy
I tried calling this morning, several times. It either rung out and then cut off, or a girl answered and transferred my call to a phone that rung out, or when I got put through I heard a recorded message - in arabic to which I couldn't understand. The telephone number is +971 4 2222253 - I hope you have better luck, I would be interested to hear. I will also keep trying.


----------



## Richard Head

dbxdude said:


> IMHO prices now are to good, great even. Town houses for 2m and under, huge mansions for 4.5m (J.islands), Palm villas for under 8 (low numbers), massive penthouses for 4m, 1 beds in JLT for 600k to 1m. Yields of 10,12,15 or 17%. But still no buyers..... wana know why?
> 
> No finance. Thats the only reason. That alone.
> 
> If you can borrow at 7% and get 12% return its a no brainer. But you can not borrow hardly anything.
> 
> At some point banks will have to start lending, thats how they make their money, when they do, buyers will return and it will be quick, because eveyone knows where the prices were b4 and as soon as its apparent they are heading up again it will be a frenzy. Simple.


Interesting hypothesis, and not one i've seen before. You may well be onto something. A bank that doesn't lend money will not stay in the banking business for long.

One thing I do know. Garden homes on Jebel Ali at 3.5 million are an absolute no-brainer for anyone with a bit of cash, these were sold 5 years ago at 2.86 million, and have been as high as 8 - 9 million. By the time they get built the recession will be over and they will be back at those prices. I really wish I had a spare million lying around. Unless you actually believe these will never get built and everyone will get 2.86 back, how can these not be an absolute steal?


----------



## 234sale

I would of moved to Canada quite happily. 

Last time visited was 2002

Great Country and People..


----------



## Garden city

desertmaster said:


> we survived all this time with the rent caps !!! now rera has eaten the cake by giving a rent price index that too of the highs !!! this year we get hiked by 20 % and so on until we get priced out !!! not to mention Schools have plans to increase thier fees by another 50 % this year !! so we send back our family and the next will be we cannot share a decent apartment as we will be termed bachelors ......


:applause:

Totally agree with you. From all this you can figure out the lack of co-ordination and doing any sort of analysis about long term impact before making any decisions. RERA should have atleast considered the salary levels of people staying here ( affordability is the key ) , anyone using even 1 % of his/her brain would do that.


----------



## 234sale

Executive Towers, Burj Views and a few others completed soon. Thats another 3000 or so units coming onto the market by Summer.

What about Discovery Gardens, how many more will be loaded onto the market.

How many more towers will be handed over in JLT and Marina.

Can we expect 10,000 units by this time. Will this impact the market?


----------



## Wannaberich

---


----------



## Wannaberich

aviduser said:


> Dubai simply cannot be likened to any European or American City, Dubai has no heart, no soul, no charm and no centre.
> 
> .



Plus no crime,no bad weather,no breakdown in family values,no huge drug problem.Shall I go on?
Yeah its all bad.


----------



## skdubai

ok... lets separate the two issues here.... 

Dubai is a good place to live(especially for some people) and make money...... it is at this point however, a bad place to invest due to a lot of the reasons mentioned above...


----------



## aviduser

No bad weather !!! Are you on Crack ? do you do much during the Summer months then, you ever tried playing Golf in August here, it will kill you, it almost killed me. The summer here is the same as Toronto's winter you cannot go outside. 

No crime is the great claim about Dubai, I am sure all those people invested in projects that are currently on hold or cancelled would love to talk to you about no crime. Many have lost or WILL lose thousands of pounds. 

Drug problems and breakdown in family values ? come on look around you it's there you are just not looking. 

The simple fact is that Dubai no matter how much money it could have spent it was NEVER going ever going to come close to having the feel of ANY Western European, Canadian or American City. 

The lack of any cohesive town planning means developments are dotted about the land with no though of transport links or social cohesion. 

Bottom line, Dubai is full of people who are interested solely in themselves and how to make as much money as possible and get out as soon as possible.

They have no affiliation with, or for the country and the people, the local population has no intention of broadening their work ethic and building your Country of the backs of other people doesn't work when there are not enough of you to then support the finished Country. Dubai was and always will be hampered by demographics and an inability to work.


----------



## Wannaberich

aviduser said:


> Are you on Crack ? .


Not any more.My dealer just went down for 10.U got any?


Honestly some people are just not worth bothering with.
Yes we all know Dubai is in the shit like the rest of the world,but surely even you can pick out one postive point?
Errrr,maybe not.


----------



## gerald.d

skdubai said:


> ok... lets separate the two issues here....
> 
> Dubai is a good place to live(especially for some people) and make money...... it is at this point however, a bad place to invest due to a lot of the reasons mentioned above...


Nail on the head.

Dubai is a good place to live now, as it was a good place to live 10 years ago - when there were probably only a 10th of the number of western ex-pats here, and as it will hopefully still be a good place to live in 10 years time.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The chairman of Emaar said property prices in Dubai could fall about 20% on average, in remarks published on Monday. He did not give a timeframe. Mohammad Al Abbar also said Emaar's financial position was strong but the firm had no plans to buy back shares, but it might consider delaying some projects if market conditions indicated a need to postpone putting new units for sale. Asked about views that real estate prices could fall as much as 60%, Al Abbar told Al Khaleej newspaper that he believes a decline of 60% is 'illogical'. He said declines would reach up to 30% in some areas depending on the level and location of units, but on average they would be about 20%. 

http://www.ameinfo.com/182523.html


----------



## desertweasel

^^ he used exactly the same "it's illogical, fundemantals are strong" argument about Emaars share price and look what happened to that :lol:

He has a credibility issue


----------



## HappyLarry

Dubai_Steve said:


> The chairman of Emaar said property prices in Dubai could fall about 20% on average, in remarks published on Monday. He did not give a timeframe. Mohammad Al Abbar also said Emaar's financial position was strong but the firm had no plans to buy back shares, but it might consider delaying some projects if market conditions indicated a need to postpone putting new units for sale. Asked about views that real estate prices could fall as much as 60%, Al Abbar told Al Khaleej newspaper that he believes a decline of 60% is 'illogical'. He said declines would reach up to 30% in some areas depending on the level and location of units, but on average they would be about 20%.
> 
> http://www.ameinfo.com/182523.html


 10% here, 30% there and so we can expect 20% average.So he says.
That sound like Mr Al Abbar. He is a good calculator. Wasn't he caught on camera suggesting stock market manipulation?


----------



## nri-hotels

It seems that Dubai has lost its charm. In this global recession, other countries that have established infrastructure, manufacturing base, liberal lifestyle and good weather, are now showing better value for money than Dubai.


----------



## samiissa

*Join hands and find win win solutions*

Dear All,

I own several units in DSC, CRW. I also have friends and contacts who have units in CRW as well.

I am based in Dubai. The latest postings do give a clear picture of what is going on. We had a meeting with a team in DSC, who also sent us e-mail response after the site visit confirming what is written in earlier postings about delaying payment till May, and reservation fees till end 2009, and promising regular updates. All this is a good move forward, but we do have problems. Money tied up. Value of project is down becuase the whoel project of DSC will not be completed as promissed. DSC will remain a construction site for years to come, which keeps the value of the propeorty down compared to other developments. And, they are already holding to too much of our money, or money the received from the bank on our behalf, which we are paying initerest on, and for long periods.

DSC has a liability towards the investors becuase of the above issues, including the delays in the CRW, and the delay in the overall development of DSC. One important fact, Dubai Bank seems to be somehow affeliated with DSC on the ownership level. This raises some questions of the unfairness of Dubai Bank making many payments, up to 65%, without the contraction even starting. Usually, banks hold payments to protect themselves as well as the borrowers until they see progress. In this case, Dubai bank did not, and is charging us a lot of interest on money that is sitting in DSC escrow account.

All investos need to join hands with united front to find a win win situation. There are solutions, and they vary depending on when the property was bought, what price was it bought, and whether it is financed by Dubai Bank or not. The common issues are the delays, and the drop in the value of the prty, regardless of the buying price, due to the delays in the CRW project itself, and delays in the DSC development as a whole.

We need to think of solutions and offer to DSC in order to settle with them on something that I beleive can be a win win situation, or at least minimize the risk and loss on the investor side as well as DSC side. DSC made mistakes and had iinternal problems that caused delays in the project. They were not so far able to delvier according to their promises, and they need to be accountable for that. But we canot push them too far. It is not in our favor.

Some thoughts -

Mergin like properties that are bought at the same price or close price range to minimize the risk. So if two investors have paid 50% each towards an apartment, they can mrge them into one apratment and it will be paid off. This minimizes the risk, especially with the prices going down and liquidity not available.

I am sure there are many other solutions that we can come up with, to cater to the different situations, and investors can get together to offer DSC a way to amicable resolve the issues, and indemnify themselves in return from some of the liabilities already falling on their shoulders.

Any thoughts???


----------



## HappyLarry

skdubai said:


> Man, i get the feeling everyone here is British!! The biggest problem for me as an investor is that i just do not plain trust the govt. here. *I take it you have total faith in your own government?*
> 
> Let us forget about the fact that The govt. did a u turn on some important issues. The simple fact remains though that it is a country where foreigners have no recourse. If tomorrow someone else takes over from Shaikh Mohd. and this person thinks differently about foreigners and property laws, everyone who bought a property here is screwed. The courts will not listed to you and there is no one else to complain to!!
> * It is his country and you have no say in it. *
> 
> It made sense to invest here when the returns were enormous, but we can all agree that those kinds of returns are a thing of the past, and any future returns will be more in line with what you would get in more mature markets...so why take that risk?
> *So you have decision to make. Sell and move out to more mature markets or put up.*
> 
> If you want to stay here and have enough trust that you have job security, then i can understand wanting to buy property, but for investment, Dubai is slipping down the list pretty fast!!
> *You haven't a clue about UAE economy except focusing on ups and downs of your investment.*
> 
> Oh and i forgot to mention the exorbitant services charges, which equate to rent on an apartment you already own?
> *I bet you will not complain when collecting rediculous rent either.*


You my friend are a typical nervous citizen of the world wanting to raise your head out of ground and wish for all the bad news to have gone away. For your information, the latest news is that there is more bad news coming over the horizon. Chin up. You could be living in Hydrabad. :cheers:


----------



## HappyLarry

nri-hotels said:


> It seems that Dubai has lost its charm. In this global recession, other countries that have established infrastructure, manufacturing base, liberal lifestyle and good weather, are now showing better value for money than Dubai.


Hello cheerful soul!

Do you ever wake up with happy thoughts? hno:

Yes, I know how much you like promoting your own region. It's natural.


----------



## docc

HappyLarry,

More bad news? About what? Can you elaborate please?


----------



## 234sale

30 towers a year, I guess will be handed over in Business Bay


----------



## Wannaberich

Wannaberich said:


> Just seen on the website of one of the big 3.
> 3 x 1 beds at Discovery Gardens, all 969 sq.ft, all 643,750.
> All the other DG units are prices as normal.
> 
> Why don't these idiots just offer these prices out to clients without publishing them and dragging down everyone elses prices.
> My guess is all 3 belong to the same desperate seller.



Quote from another member

'I have called Sherwood to get an understanding where there 650K AED 1 bedrooms are flooding in from.

They tell me that it was 1 owner who purchased 30 apartments, direct from the developers, at a discount, and now wanting to liquidate his cash ASAP. 650 he is still breaking even. 

So this is why we have this surge in low property prices. I am told that last 4 remaining are with Sherwood and they have been sold. So we should see these properties come out of the market'


Makes sense now.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Do you think Dubai is still a good long term investment (5 - 10 years) or will the dream never be realized?

Will Dubailand, Al Bawadi, Waterfront etc. all complete with the original vision, somehow I doubt it as projects will be cut and scaled back forever rather than phased in with the original plans.


----------



## 234sale

Wasn't that a thread once,, when do you think more projects will be constructed than under construction?


----------



## tehsin123

Dubai_Steve said:


> Do you think Dubai is still a good long term investment (5 years+) or will the dream never be realized?


No, Unless government really shows that they are true, consistenct, listen to both sides equally, care about foreign investors and prove that legal infrastructure in solid and non-reversible


----------



## HappyLarry

docc said:


> HappyLarry,
> 
> More bad news? About what? Can you elaborate please?


For a start there will be a lot more banks that will go bust, in US mainly.
Liquidity has yet to flow through the banking system, in a meaningful way.
Experts are reporting that property prices have not bottomed out in Dubai and as a consequence a few more developers will certainly go to the wall.
A lot of inexperienced investors jumped on the rollercoaster only a few months ago and they are desparate to get out.
Other, seasoned investors, have overstretched, buying multiple properties. They can't make next payment. They are also desparate to get out.
Those sitting in Europe are also suffering because of the $ strength. The reality is that $ needs to remain at current levels for US economy to recover and so kickstart recovery elsewhere.

Things will get better but bad news has to be washed out first!:cheers:


----------



## HappyLarry

Dubai_Steve said:


> Do you think Dubai is still a good long term investment (5 - 10 years) or will the dream never be realized?
> 
> Will Dubailand, Al Bawadi, Waterfront etc. all complete with the original vision, somehow I doubt it as projects will be cut and scaled back forever rather than phased in with the original plans.


We are approaching the apex of global crisis and so it is natural to doubt long term planning of Dubai.
I do believe that Dubai will remain on track with its vision. Sure, some projects will be delayed or scaled back but overall the vision will turn to reality.
Let's face it! Dubai is not in recession but in debt due to global banking crisis. A bit like all of us with loans and mortgages. It will get paid or restructured.
I give you one example of Dubai vision that is nearing reality and which is the envy of the world. It is the new airport. It will have 130M travellers passing through. Let's assume on average 1% remain in Dubai at any given time. That would be 1.3M non-UAE vistors.:cheers:


----------



## dbxdude

tehsin123 said:


> In my opinion, prices are still very high. Compared to what? Compared to other international options. Here for a good 4 B/R townhouse or villa, your budget should be $ 1M or little less @ AED psqf. Why won't I go to Canada, US or Australia for half that price, or even less. I bought a new house in Canada 3 years ago for C$400,000 (i.e. US$ 350,000) 4 B/R, 3000 sqf, excellent community with schools, roads, parkings, hospitals and other facilities. On top of that government guarantees of workmanship and quality. If you have more money, you can also "buy" permanent residency with all rights.
> 
> What additional Dubai offers for 2 or 3 times the price with no visa guarantee and questionable quality. In my opinion, prices need to adjust much more compared to international options. Most investors are international, they do look at other things also.


Ok, well Canada looks like a pretty amazing country, but from what i hear they have a few problems themselfs with crime and drugs and disenchanted youth. I grant you id love a town house in dawsons creek and condo in wistler but you would have been a looser in realestate in canada to over the past 2 years - just in currency terms. And there is a reason why the currency is declining (fast) see nortel file for chapter 11, see its biggest trrading partner, the us, import alot less. Canada is om my radar, wistler especially but Canada is going to suffer also. What is the impact to Canada if Citibank and BoA go? 

Dubai prices have declined dramatically. But that means they reach the bottom faster. Most people only started buying and speculating in 2004/05 and we are close to those prices. UK, US, Canada have had buyers for decades, for all we know it could take them a decade to bottom out. Miami is like a slow car crash bit by bit it goes down, no buyers no sellers, at least here the bottom is in sight. 

As i mentioned, i think we would already have buyers in the market if banks were lending. Most companies are to small to cut more jobs and to be honest outside of construction things are not that slow. Winter sun ensures europeans will spend their winter here on mass for years to come. 

Buy Dubai soon - 12 months?, Buy Canada in a couple years, give the UK 5.


----------



## desertmaster

HappyLarry said:


> We are approaching the apex of global crisis and so it is natural to doubt long term planning of Dubai.
> I do believe that Dubai will remain on track with its vision. Sure, some projects will be delayed or scaled back but overall the vision will turn to reality.
> Let's face it! Dubai is not in recession but in debt due to global banking crisis. A bit like all of us with loans and mortgages. It will get paid or restructured.
> I give you one example of Dubai vision that is nearing reality and which is the envy of the world. It is the new airport. It will have 130M travellers passing through. Let's assume on average 1% remain in Dubai at any given time. That would be 1.3M non-UAE vistors.:cheers:


Dubai's government has announced the construction of a new airport in Jebel Ali termed Al Maktoum International Airport. It is expected upon completion to be the fourth largest airport in the world by physical size, though not by passenger metrics. Construction is expected to finish by the year 2017. On completion, Dubai International Airport is expected to be able to accommodate up to 75 million passengers. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Airport


----------



## Naz UK

Current throughput into DXB - 37 million per annum. The vision you mentioned: 130 million per annum. So that's 28.46% of the vision achieved. 

So by that logic, I am also nearing my goal of becoming a millionaire. I have £287,460.00 in the bank. :banana:


----------



## Imre

234sale said:


> Executive Towers, Burj Views and a few others completed soon. Thats another 3000 or so units coming onto the market by Summer.
> 
> What about Discovery Gardens, how many more will be loaded onto the market.
> 
> How many more towers will be handed over in JLT and Marina.
> 
> Can we expect 10,000 units by this time. Will this impact the market?


Executive Towers would be a big problem for the market, I know many people who bought floors and can not pay more ( and the selling impossible now) , thats why before the handover hundreeds of units will be available at the OP or maybe cheaper.


----------



## HappyLarry

Naz UK said:


> Current throughput into DXB - 37 million per annum. The vision you mentioned: 130 million per annum. So that's 28.46% of the vision achieved.
> 
> So by that logic, I am also nearing my goal of becoming a millionaire. I have £287,460.00 in the bank. :banana:


 Nice one!
You could in theory set yourself up as a bank. Then, gear up to 27x according to banking rules and lend out a few million to troubled investors at say 5%. Hey, you could be rich banker in no time.


----------



## High Times

Naz UK said:


> Current throughput into DXB - 37 million per annum. The vision you mentioned: 130 million per annum. So that's 28.46% of the vision achieved.
> 
> So by that logic, I am also nearing my goal of becoming a millionaire. I have £287,460.00 in the bank. :banana:





Naz UK said:


> I sold my apartment and bought 5 back-backs up north at 35% below market value with a nice tidy rental profit and hefty property appreciation ready to revalue and release equity within the next 2 months


Naz, surely with that tidy rental profit, and hefty property appreciation, not to mention your £287k in the bank, your net worth must be well above the million now. hno:


----------



## peacesells

I think it's too early to write an obituary for Dubai's economy, and if anything, this economic crisis taught us to expect the unexpected.


----------



## gerald.d

dbxdude said:


> Dubai prices have declined dramatically. But that means they reach the bottom faster.


An alternative - and equally valid - interpretation could simply be that they have further to fall.


----------



## Sheltie

BARCLAYS BANK - Can you believe this (has anyone else had this problem?)

We opened an AED and Sterling account in Dubai in 2007 with Barclays Bank. We put 7000 AED in that account when we opened it.
In May 2008 we were supposed to pay an installment on an apartment and had a forward contract with Moneycorp but the payment was suspended so we put the 60,000 AED into our Barclays account.
We faxed them yesterday with our bank details for an account in Uk to transfer the 60,000 AED back. They have just phoned to say that we haven't used our account for a while so we have to go to Dubai to activate it so that we can get our money out.
We said it would cost us over £1000 to get money out of our account (flights, accommodation etc.) They will look into it and phone us tommorrow. It's only been 8 months since we put our money into the account.

I was gobsmacked!!!

Any suggestions what to say to them when they do phone us back.


----------



## lovedubai

Are they charging you each month in order to keep the account open like HSBC do? If so, the bank account is being used regularly. Otherwise try contacting Barclays International Branch (I presume they have one in London) and see if they can sort it out. Not always possible though. We had to go to Dubai once to fill in the forms to enable us to transfer money out from our HSBC account. Unfortunately the banks in Dubai really do operate in the dark ages. Good luck.


----------



## Sheltie

Excellent point, we are not getting charged monthly but interest was paid into our account in September so we can use that as part of our arguement.
Thanks.


----------



## luluprovence

----------------


----------



## smussuw

SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > United Arab Emirates - دار زايـــد > Property & Investment in Dubai: Your questions about the market

Hope this helps? :nuts:


----------



## Richard Head

:lol: lol WTF?

I'm wearing glasses right now, can anyone tell me how to switch them on so I can see better? :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## luluprovence

----------


----------



## Richard Head

luluprovence said:


> smussuw
> ^^
> thank you so very much. i was on thread 5 reading the posts [2005] mind you which made interesting read i.e. those bet Dubai Steve and kamal (uk) - brilliant! i think this thread is a brilliant find for me - so i was a bit concerned if i let go i wouldn't get back - now that i can, i'm off to eat loads of chocs. i've so much catching up to do.
> 
> have you purchased pty and if so where. i'm waiting for apt handover in relation to the icon towers.
> 
> :cheer:
> Lulu


Oh Bugger, now she's gone and been all cutesy and I feel bad. I'm banning myself for an hour at least.


----------



## HappyLarry

High Times said:


> Naz, surely with that tidy rental profit, and hefty property appreciation, not to mention your £287k in the bank, your net worth must be well above the million now. hno:


 :lol:


----------



## HappyLarry

Originally Posted by luluprovence 
smussuw

thank you so very much. i was on thread 5 reading the posts [2005] mind you which made interesting read i.e. those bet Dubai Steve and kamal (uk) - brilliant! i think this thread is a brilliant find for me - so i was a bit concerned if i let go i wouldn't get back - now that i can, i'm off to eat loads of chocs. i've so much catching up to do. 

have you purchased pty and if so where. i'm waiting for apt handover in relation to the icon towers. 


Lulu


Richard Head said:


> Oh Bugger, now she's gone and been all cutesy and I feel bad. I'm banning myself for an hour at least.


Looks like the copper has a french date!


----------



## 234sale

Richard Head said:


> Oh Bugger, now she's gone and been all cutesy and I feel bad. I'm banning myself for an hour at least.


I can ban you for a hour if you want,, never tried a 1hour ban function before..


----------



## 234sale

Also I need a Eibor graph for the last 6months, if ayone could be so kind to post a linky.


----------



## luluprovence

------------


----------



## HappyLarry

234sale said:


> Also I need a Eibor graph for the last 6months, if ayone could be so kind to post a linky.


 http://www.moneyworks.ae/user_files/uploads/UAE Banks 18-11-08.pdf

has charts on page 5 for yr to Nov 2008


----------



## bizzybonita

*International Property Show-15-17 Feb 2009

*

http://www.internationalpropertyshow.ae/


----------



## 234sale

Good info, just need relevant data for nov 08 - jan 09.

I have the figures for some days but finding a graph is difficult.


----------



## NAB

Baba Toto, I had asked this question to them some time back when i saw this info on the RERA site. It seems that DEC had purchased the land on Minas General trading name then - for administrative reasons.

Reading through many of the other site construction updates, it does seem that people who have bought in Lawns do not seem to be unduly worried that the developer has not started anything for the last 1 year (except putting some boards) - the units were to be delivered 3-4 months back - and even today there is nothing done. 

Isn't it time that we all start speaking collectively to the developer instead of individually?


----------



## Philippa C

We love living in Dubai. We lived in Australia for years before moving here so we're comparing it to a country with a good quality of life. We travel a lot and we're always happy to come back. Residents complain about so many things here but the city is very clean and safe. A lot of infrastructure is being built and when the metro and new roundabouts are complete the traffic situation will be a whole lot better. The RTA is even putting in bicycle lanes! Dubai is truly multi-cultural and anyone feels at home here. You can compare prices with other cities but at the end of the day you can "know the price of everything but the value of nothing".

I think the issue of visas for property buyers is being overplayed a bit. Non-residents can buy property in Australia - details just go on a register but it does not entitle the buyer to a residence visa. The developers/gov was wrong to promote the concept of a visa for property owners as any country offering a reasonable standard of living would be overrun in such circumstances. 

I still have confidence in Dubai and the drop in prices and rent is probably best for the long term viability of the city. I don't say this lightly - we were offered 480K in rent for a 5 bed house in the ranches last Sept but declined as we were trying to sell it. Offered a rent today of 350K. That's some drop but in reality 350K is a huge amount of money to pay in rent.


----------



## HappyLarry

Philippa C said:


> We love living in Dubai. .....
> 
> I still have confidence in Dubai and the drop in prices and rent is probably best for the long term viability of the city. I don't say this lightly - we were offered 480K in rent for a 5 bed house in the ranches last Sept but declined as we were trying to sell it. Offered a rent today of 350K. That's some drop but in reality 350K is a huge amount of money to pay in rent.


If you are spending your rent in Dubai then that is a 27% drop in rental income. But if you are sending it to say Aus or UK then the drop is only 9% due to dhiram strength. I say, Dubai economy remains strong. :cheers:

On another related matter, do letting agents really charge 20% of gross income? If so then that is a rip off!


----------



## desertmaster

Sheltie said:


> BARCLAYS BANK - Can you believe this (has anyone else had this problem?)
> 
> We opened an AED and Sterling account in Dubai in 2007 with Barclays Bank. We put 7000 AED in that account when we opened it.
> In May 2008 we were supposed to pay an installment on an apartment and had a forward contract with Moneycorp but the payment was suspended so we put the 60,000 AED into our Barclays account.
> We faxed them yesterday with our bank details for an account in Uk to transfer the 60,000 AED back. They have just phoned to say that we haven't used our account for a while so we have to go to Dubai to activate it so that we can get our money out.
> We said it would cost us over £1000 to get money out of our account (flights, accommodation etc.) They will look into it and phone us tommorrow. It's only been 8 months since we put our money into the account.
> 
> I was gobsmacked!!!
> 
> Any suggestions what to say to them when they do phone us back.


dont worry , its an international norm that if there is no account activity it goes dormant. so your account has just got dormant. the normal way is to deposit any amount maybe 50 dhs and it will become non dormant again . when you speak to them offer them this option and ask someone to deposit any amount, alternatively you have to be present and sign some form to get your account out of dormant. this procedure is to safeguard your money from the bank itself as in previous instances accounts that have gone dormant for a v long time people working for the bank have quietly removed and used the funds .


----------



## desertmaster

desertmaster said:


> dont worry , its an international norm that if there is no account activity it goes dormant. so your account has just got dormant. the normal way is to deposit any amount maybe 50 dhs and it will become non dormant again . when you speak to them offer them this option and ask someone to deposit any amount, alternatively you have to be present and sign some form to get your account out of dormant. this procedure is to safeguard your money from the bank itself as in previous instances accounts that have gone dormant for a v long time people working for the bank have quietly removed and used the funds .


btw it goes dormant if there is no activity for 6 months .....


----------



## mdxb

Hi guys,

Our Queue Point apartment is financed by Tamweel, now, we received letter from them telling us that we have to pre register the property and we need to pay the land registration fee (aroung AED10,000) by Feb. 25. Has anyone heard about this? Why should we pay this now when there IS nothing going on there yet? Has anyone paid the land registrationof an off plan property?


----------



## mikeyk07

Hi, Kay, I too have a 1 bed flat in the Venetian Bld - 13 Floor - Golf Course View (look forward to seeing your photos) !!

I have already previously rescheduled my payments directly with DSC. I owe 38% of the purchase price, and have dates to pay at the end of this Jan 09 and at the end of March 09 and then the final 20% upon completion. Please could you confirm that it is correct for me to assume that i don't need to make these payments until May and that I will or should receive an email from DSC to this effect ?

Could somebody post the email address of the contact at DSC if and when they receive their email.


----------



## MikeMuz

shiraj_hoque said:


> yeah, I think DSC will kick butt big time..... just have to make sure that they complete like planned and force slower developers to raise their game. I still cant beleive the prices of apartments on Memon website. Will people still buy at those prices??


Your right Shiraj,
If those prices are right people are gunna be put off at todays rate (AED)hno:
But then again I'm happy to already own an apartment at that price :banana:


----------



## agod

ianxgrant said:


> I arrived in Dubai yesterday for a 1 week break (from Perth Australia) and was in the Mall of the Emirates yesterday - Believe me, there is still plenty of money here. My friends tried to book flights with Skywards points from the UK for October 2009 and it was already very busy. Don't comment on Dubai unless you have been there as it is nowhere near as one dimensional as some people make it sound. Any investments over a 3 year period are good IMO. This is still a great place to visit, especially if you have a bit of cash.....


Funny that, i was there last night myself and it was heaving, had a lovely steak at Chillies, but i did notice that the shops were not, of course once you start converting everything you buy, from sterling to dirhams, it doe feel very expensive, i am not a doom and gloom merchant, and do agree the place is looking better and better, and no sign of a downturn.

Alan


----------



## speculator

agod said:


> Funny that, i was there last night myself and it was heaving, had a lovely steak at Chillies, but i did notice that the shops were not, of course once you start converting everything you buy, from sterling to dirhams, it doe feel very expensive, i am not a doom and gloom merchant, and do agree the place is looking better and better, and no sign of a downturn.
> 
> Alan


Let the music play. Nice to hear that and long may it continue. Well I suppose for my selfish:lol: sake. LOL


----------



## baba toto

I agree with you. The sooner they start construction, the earlier we can look towards completion, receive handover, live in, rent out, or sell the property!!....Though the area and location will remain a building site for years.....and could be difficult to rent out or to sell on.....


----------



## Money2Burn

I like how 99% of you were all raving about Dubai till summer 2008. it was clean, safe, no tax, great weather for 9 out of 12 months, good access to many destinations, infrastructure being build ect.

Now you have found out that you will not make any more money on flipping real estate, that you have to tighten the belt by 1-2 holes, that you can keep your job only if you realy contribute to the compan's day to day activity or you get fired and suddenly Dubai is the worst place to stay.

Why dont you just go back to the UK,such a great place to stay


----------



## desertmaster

*positive steps*

Key developers in pact to produce
Angela Giuffrida


Dubai’s property developers involved in key community developments are in talks to form committees to drive the projects forward, as sub-developers hit by the financial slowdown struggle to get work started. 

Dozens of sub-developers have bought land at Nakheel’s Waterfront, which comprises five districts spread across 16km of coastline and six man-made islands. But only one, Cirrus Developments, has started construction on Aquarius Gate, a Dh3 billion (US$816.66 million) residential and commercial project.

The company is now in talks with Nakheel and its counterparts to boost progress at Waterfront by setting up a committee for sub-developers. 

“We’ve gone from being combative to trying to survive,” said Rehan Khan, the chief operating officer at Cirrus Developments. “We know some developers are just a few steps behind us. But a customer who buys into a master-development expects a certain level of conformity. And if we [the sub-developers] don’t talk, collaborate or share ideas, then we won’t achieve that.” 

Mr Khan said such a committee might also share costs with Nakheel to improve communal parts of the development, such as green areas. “We all want to make the whole development more attractive, and that might mean sharing the financing with Nakheel.” 

The move is backed by Nakheel. The company was “holding discussions with all industry-related partners aimed at maintaining a healthy market movement under the current circumstances”, it said in a statement. 

“Nakheel realises that it does not work in isolation and has a great number of partners and third parties whose interests are intertwined with its own. This approach is very responsible in line with current global economic conditions,” it added. 

Earlier this month, the property developer merged the project teams working on Waterfront and Palm Jebel Ali, the second of its Palm island trilogy, as part of a management shake-up. The projects are now led by Marwan al Qamzi, who was previously solely responsible for Palm Jebel Ali.

Sub-developers are also talking with Limitless about setting up a similar committee for Downtown Jebel Ali, a sprawling township worth about Dh70bn. Limitless declined to comment. 

But while most sub-developers at Waterfront support the collaboration, others had bigger problems to deal with, Mr Khan said. “The intention is there from some, but others who maybe overstretched themselves need to overcome these challenges first.”
With demand for beachfront homes being a key driver of Dubai’s property market at the height of its boom, Waterfront attracted a number of developers. 

Define Properties acquired 12 plots of land, but construction on these now hangs in the balance while the company concludes takeover talks with ACI Real Estate. 
Omniyat Properties, which bought 1.5 million square feet of land to build a Dh5bn hotel, residential and commercial resort, has postponed the project’s launch because of the market slowdown.

But the slowdown has an upside. Mr Khan said with contracts being cancelled or postponed across the emirate, developers ready to build had greater access to experienced, top-tier contractors that were previously scarce.


----------



## avid

Hi mdxb, is this becasue you have a finance from Tamweel? or is this letter from Mazaya? Find it a bit strange because i have receivd no information as yet on this & i have mortgage from Mazaya. Could you let me know your plot no?


----------



## THEPOINT

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10279706.html

This seems good news to investors unless it pushes small developers over the top


----------



## Wannaberich

Imre said:


> *Two draft laws to protect buyers in off-plan market *
> 
> 
> Dubai: Two new laws in the pipeline will bring further protection to investors and end-users in Dubai's off-plan property market.
> 
> The first law says developers must own the land and have completed at least 20 per cent of construction before they can request consent from the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) and are allowed to sell off-plan.
> 
> The second law says the payment plan must be linked to construction milestones and a maximum of 20 per cent of the property price can be taken up front.
> 
> Both are in draft form at the moment but expected to be implemented soon, according to Lisa Dale, partner in law firm Al Tamimi and Company. A law already in place says that developers will be cancelled from the Real Estate Register if they do not start construction of the project within six months of the date when approval was granted to sell off-plan.
> 
> Al Tamimi joined forces with Dubai Land Department (DLD) on Tuesday in order to shed some light on property laws in Dubai. Buying off-plan has always been slightly risky as some developers took money from investors without having started construction. This led to many complaints being taken to Rera and the Property Court by people wanting their contracts cancelled and being given refunds.
> 
> While the exact number of cases currently in the property court is unavailable, Dale said they were "very busy".
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10279706.html


This is great news.Now that the market has collapsed,there are no new launches,no off-plan sales,and more importantly thousands of people across Dubai have been screwed including anyone whos invested in Jum Village,the timing couldnt have been better.


----------



## speculator

A simple read for those who think its only Dubai thats been affected.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2179462.ece


----------



## toledotd1

*uk*



Richard Head said:


> What a heap of crap. I'm still raving, for all the reasons listed in your first paragraph, they all still apply. I haven't bought a property for 4 years, the ones I have bought, despite the "crash", are still worth at least double what I paid, and I have absolutely no concerns that I might lose my job. You really think i'm the only lucky one?
> 
> I wouldn't move back to the UK unless my life depended on it, it's a toilet, and it will get a lot worse before it gets better


shame on you calling your own motherland a toilet.people who do not respect their heritage will never fit in anywhere.


----------



## desertmaster

toledotd1 said:


> shame on you calling your own motherland a toilet.people who do not respect their heritage will never fit in anywhere.


IMHO UK is a toilet in terms of investement as of today even when compared to dubai in these times .


----------



## NajamD

crap; toilet??

I think Richard is constipated and in need of some laxatives!!!:lol:


----------



## speculator

toledotd1 said:


> shame on you calling your own motherland a toilet.people who do not respect their heritage will never fit in anywhere.


Unfortunatley he has a valid point. I Honestly have to guide the kids when walking on public footpaths and warn them not to tread on that turd and then another turd. Seems as if it becomes a bit of an obstacle course. Lets not also forget the fresh smells in the morning when you go to any high street and find that all the lager louts boys & girls have been using the streets as public conveniences. 

Apart from that I thnk the UK is great place.


----------



## gerald.d

Here you go - from Gulf News, 3 weeks ago.

In the first 8 weeks (from November 12th through to 7th January), 2.2 million visitors, and "a slight decrease, compensated by European visitors".

I can only assume from the National article that no-one has visited at all in the last 3 weeks.



> Thursday, Jan 08, 2009
> 
> Gulf News
> 
> Dubai: The Global Village has seen 2.2 million visitors in eight weeks, during its current edition, with a record number of 100,000 visitors on December 9, the second day of Eid Al Adha, officials told Gulf News.
> 
> Last year, the venue saw about 4.5 million visitors during 80 days of operation, who spent around Dh600 million in transactions, Abdul Redha Ali Bin Redha, project director of Global Village told Gulf News.
> 
> The capacity for visitors has been increased from 4.5 million to 5 million this year, in terms of facilities and security. The location has also seen an addition in land area and further investment into the infrastructure.
> 
> Bin Redha said the investment was the reason behind the increase in entry fee to Dh10 from Dh5 two years ago, and a revision in entry fee is not planned.
> 
> "We have been forced to increase the fee because we are spending on improving the facilities and developing the infrastructure. The construction has already begun to make Global Village a covered venue," he said. Global Village will continue till February 21, 2009.
> 
> "This started during the winter months, and depending on the need from the participants, if it is extended to 365 days a year, we will need to cover the place, especially for the summer," Bin Redha said.
> 
> He added that there have been a lot of requests from business to extend the days. This year, operational from November 12, the venue will welcome visitors for 102 days.
> 
> Currently, within the 31 pavilions, there are 2,600 participants, some with possibly more than one shop. Whether visitors will see additional countries representing themselves in the form of pavilions, depends on investor interest.
> 
> "Other countries are welcome to participate, but we assess their ability to operate as well as their professionalism," Bin Redha said.
> 
> *Speaking of the impact of the financial crisis, Bin Redha said that a slight decrease has been felt, it has been compensated for by European tourist visitors.*
> 
> "If we lose visitors on the one hand, we still have a good number," he said. A number of social responsibility activities are being undertaken.
> 
> They support small business to set up, free of charge, for women from low-income families, or those who are widowed to sell items that are home-made. The administration also helps participants with special needs.





desertmaster said:


> Participants of Dubailand’s Global Village extravaganza have blamed a rise in entrance fees and more expensive visas for a drop in visitor numbers to the annual event.
> 
> A major tourist attraction for Dubai, Global Village last year attracted 4.5 million visitors over its three-month run. This year’s event, which began on Nov 12 and will end on Feb 21, has so far lured 2.2 million people, according to the information centre at Global Village.
> 
> “We have one more month to go and I don’t think that by the end of the period the number of visitors will be the same as last year,” said Osman Esmail Osman, the organiser of the Egyptian pavilion.
> 
> “It never used to be this way. To get to the Global Village, you had to wait in traffic for at least an hour, but now we can get here from the downtown area in about 20 minutes.”
> 
> Representatives from Global Village were unavailable for comment.
> 
> The developer, Tatweer – the master developer of Dubailand – launched Global Village in 1996 to attract families to the emirate and to gauge visitor numbers to the entertainment project.
> 
> Global Village offers visitors a cultural and entertainment experience that features participants from more than 30 countries. Stallholders use the event to showcase a range of products at country-themed pavilions.
> 
> But this year, stallholders fear they will not generate enough revenue during the event to cover the cost of rent.
> 
> “Sales are down by about 40 per cent compared to last year and we paid Dh180,000 (US$49,000) to rent this 18 square metre stall,” said Shueta Bhattia, a saleswoman at Al Amber, a clothing stall in the Indian pavilion. “Right now, I’ve come to regret that decision because we are going to come out with a huge loss.”
> 
> Mohsen Ali Abdallh, an Emirati who owns Al Janateen, an oriental perfume store in Al Ain, and who has a stall in the UAE pavilion, agreed. “The event is a disaster this year,” he said. “I can hardly believe what is happening to us right now. Last year, I used to make sales of Dh5,000 a day and now I’ll be lucky to make Dh500.”
> 
> Sunil Bhatia, the chief executive of the Indian pavilion, blamed the drop in sales and the number of visitors to Global Village on the higher cost of visit visas, introduced by the Dubai Government in August last year. “The 30-day visa charge for tourists is now about US$150, which is really discouraging for Indian and Pakistani families to come here.”
> 
> Mohammed Naem, who is in charge of the Pakistani pavilion, said an increase in the entry fee to Dh10 per person was the main source of the problem. “This event is known to attract people from the middle and lower classes in Dubai who have large families,” he said. “Last year, the entry fee charge was Dh5, now it’s Dh10, which cannot be afforded by many people during this difficult time.”
> 
> When Dubailand is completed in 2020, Tatweer estimates that 40,000 visitors a day will flock to the venue, a figure that will contribute to Dubai’s ambitious plan to lure 15 million tourists a year to the emirate by 2015, compared with 7.7 million in 2007.
> 
> Last month, Khalid al Malik, the chief executive of Tatweer, said Dubailand was being reviewed and a plan to deal with the economic slowdown would be announced soon.
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> [email protected]


----------



## desertmaster

gerald.d said:


> Here you go - from Gulf News, 3 weeks ago.
> 
> In the first 8 weeks (from November 12th through to 7th January), 2.2 million visitors, and "a slight decrease, compensated by European visitors".
> 
> I can only assume from the National article that no-one has visited at all in the last 3 weeks.


i am not defending national but it is the project director speaking to gulf news . I would take both the articles with a pinch of salt !!! (Abdul Redha Ali Bin Redha, project director of Global Village told Gulf News.)


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## desertmaster

luluprovence said:


> any ideas as to who is responsible for issuing a 'building completion certificate'?
> 
> Lulu


no idea hno:try out RE BCC A (real estate building completion cerificate authority):bash:


----------



## tehsin123

gerald.d said:


> Here you go - from Gulf News, 3 weeks ago.
> 
> In the first 8 weeks (from November 12th through to 7th January), 2.2 million visitors, and "a slight decrease, compensated by European visitors".
> 
> I can only assume from the National article that no-one has visited at all in the last 3 weeks.


European visitors? He must be joking... Everyone (including Emirates) is concerned that there are very little European visitors here this year due to strong dollar. I don't see too much reality in Gulfnews report.


----------



## AltinD

luluprovence said:


> any ideas as to who is responsible for issuing a 'building completion certificate'?
> 
> Lulu


Dubai Municipality


----------



## skdubai

deleted....


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## Bo_Duke

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9418/img1.jpg :nocrook:


----------



## abf

toledotd1 said:


> shame on you calling your own motherland a toilet.people who do not respect their heritage will never fit in anywhere.


Absolutely agree with Richard Head. Freehold and Management companies must be raving in pleasure fleecing in the name of service charges - buy to let owners are having to throw all they have down the drain.


----------



## Imre

*Fewer buyers attend real estate show *
By Himendra Mohan Kumar, Staff Reporter
Published: January 28, 2009, 22:48


Abu Dhabi: UAE exhibitors showcasing their projects at the Abu Dhabi Real Estate and Investment Show here told Gulf News yesterday they are finding buyers hard to come by in a slowing economy hit by the global financial crisis.

On Tuesday, until well past three in the afternoon, the sales staff of some 40 exhibitors almost outnumbered the visitors at the Abu Dhabi National Exhibition Centre, where the three-day event is taking place. 

Abu Dhabi's top two real estate companies - Aldar Properties and Sorouh Real Estate - are also participating.

"We are finding problems to find buyers for the projects we are showcasing here - Al Ghadeer and Arc Tower. It seems the buyers are waiting for the market to get stable," a sales executive of Sorouh said on the condition of anonymity. 

*A sales executive for Corner Stone Real Estate, Majid Al Shafe'ei, who was trying to sell projects of Rakaa Real Estate - Dynasty and Falcon Crest on Reem Island on Shams Abu Dhabi - said he hadn't been able to sell any units, late into the afternoon on the first day.

"It's zero so far. But we are trying. The cash flow is not there. There's no money with the banks to finance," Al Shafe'ei said.*

One of the reasons why the buyers have turned their backs on the UAE real estate market could be the high prices of properties on offer. And the realtors are unwilling to drop their prices, not just yet, despite their build-up in inventories.

Executives of Sorouh and Hydra Properties said they are not dropping their prices to woo customers.

"We haven't dropped our prices, nor are we giving any discounts," said a Sorouh executive.

The only concession Hydra is giving customers is that it has broken the one-time, 10 per cent down payment into three parts.

"The 10 per cent down payment has been broken up into payments of 2.5 per cent, 2.5 per cent and 5 per cent. Between the first and second payment, there's a 30-day period, while the gap between the second and third payments is 90 days," said a Hydra executive.

10% down payment is split into three by Hydra 
30 day period between first and second payment 
90 day gap between second and third payment

(Gulfnews)


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> The Shorelines on the Palm. Hundreds of these are rented out, including mine. Nobody has title deeds for these yet, Nakheel have never issued any.


Surely you will need title deeds eventually,especially if you decide to sell?
Please dont say no cos I've just payed out for mine.


----------



## Imre

Cyrus55 said:


> Is this true? If yes something has to be done to stop them!
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/4380051/Dubais-polluted-beaches-closed-to-public.html



everything is ok at the beach

29/January/2009

beach, next to the Burj Al Arab


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## NeilP

*Please note e-mail received from Diamond last week re MD4. They informed me that they are being chased by the Land Registry Department to get things sorted by 1st Feb.*

Maintenance fees and Land registration fees

Firstly we would like to take this opportunity to inform you that either or both your Maintenance fees and Land Registration is in arrears. 

Maintenance fees:

Article 3.1.1.1 in Sales Contract

Fix an annual fee to be levied against each Unit, for the payment of periodic fees/charges, if any, imposed by the Competent Authority and to cover all expenses incurred in operating, repairing and maintenance of the Project and its infrastructure. The fee levied against each Unit shall be equal to the percentage attached to the Unit in the Common hold Property, as shown on the plan of the Project registered at the Lands Department, to the total annual fee. Not withstanding the above AED 6 per sq.ft. plus pro-rata share of the actual chiller expenses would be levied as the annual fee under the clause, for a period of 3 (three) years, after the date of completion of the Project. 

Maintenance fees calculation:

1031sq.ft x 6 per sq.ft. Common area + 1031 (1 dirham per sq.ft) gas = AED 7215

Plus 450 dirham x 12 (months) chiller charge = AED 5400

Total: AED 12615 invoice for a year

Maintenance fees Invoice
01.10.2007 – 30.09.2008
Due 12615
Paid 12615

01.10.2008 – 30.09.2009
DUE 12615
PAID 0

01.10.2009 – 30.09.2010
AED 12615 (not due yet)

(This amount payable only in one amount.) *Total due up to 31.01.2009 payable until the 1st February 2009 is: 
AED 12615

Land Registration fees:

Land Registration fees calculations:

For Land Registration fees please do the calculation accordingly:

Date according to Sales Contract: Before 17th December, 2006 = 1.5% or After 17th December, 2006 = 1%

Price: % Plus other fees: AED 760

Kindly note, this Land Registration fee should be paid before 31st January 2009, latest 1st February 2009. 

* Maintenance fee total payable to Diamond Investments L.L.C is: AED 12615 
** This amount is only Maintenance fees you have to do the calculations for Land Registration, if you do need any assistance please don’t hesitate to contact me via email [email protected] with correct information as above.

This amount needs to be settled not later than 1st February, 2009.

Payments may be made in cash (UAE dirham only), guaranteed cheques (local UAE banks), or electronic transfers to the following account. In the case of a bank transfer, please forward a copy of the transaction page to us via fax or email. Faxes or emails should be clearly be indicated the building name, apartment number and name of the owner. Should you have made the payment by the time of receiving this notification, you may ignore this letter or should you have made an arrangement of payments please email [email protected] a reminder or reason of late payment. (Only if it is been arrange with Management.)


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## Wannaberich

luluprovence said:


> tks: i do understand from the various user posts that this is not relevant, it's just the c.o.c and the c.o.o.
> 
> but what you can pls let me know is what is reqd for title deed registration?
> tks very much wannaberich!


Be careful of cocs and coos(whatever they are)

As for what is required for title deeds,Im not the one to ask but I guess just speak to the developer and tell him you want them.


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Surely you will need title deeds eventually,especially if you decide to sell?
> Please dont say no cos I've just payed out for mine.


Not sure what happens if you want to sell, but I know that Nakheel have issued no deeds, at least for shorelines. I paid my fees months ago, i'm sure many apartments would have changed hands since then so there must be a way. Might give them a call for an update actually, its been some time.


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## kano

Wannaberich said:


> Surely you will need title deeds eventually,especially if you decide to sell?
> Please dont say no cos I've just payed out for mine.


well renting and selling are two different things. The land dept will want you to register all sales...so if you sale...you will need to showe the title deeds otherwise you can't trust the seller..


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Surely you will need title deeds eventually,especially if you decide to sell?
> Please dont say no cos I've just payed out for mine.


OK, called Nakheel, they confirmed no title deeds issued yet, but that they believe they will be issued "shortly". I believe that in this context, shortly is an abbreviation of the phrase "shortly after hell freezes over, the sun implodes and planet Earth is reduced to a small lump of coal"


----------



## NeilP

It is my understanding that without registering your property you have no protection under Dubai law if you have problems with your tenant.


----------



## NajamD

Pound appears to be rallying a little bit 5.26 last time I checked:banana:


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> OK, called Nakheel, they confirmed no title deeds issued yet, but that they believe they will be issued "shortly". I believe that in this context, shortly is an abbreviation of the phrase "shortly after hell freezes over, the sun implodes and planet Earth is reduced to a small lump of coal"


Something tells me your trust in Nakheel has been dented.


----------



## Wannaberich

NajamD said:


> Pound appears to be rallying a little bit 5.26 last time I checked:banana:


More bad news !


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Something tells me your trust in Nakheel has been dented.


It's just I wonder who is going to process all these applications, since they fired all the non-essential staff (i.e. everyone incapable of telling convincing lies)


----------



## NeilP

I let my apartment on short term holiday lets. Contacted by agents today to reduce rent by 33% to try and stimulate business. More confirmation that tourism is suffering really badly.


----------



## Richard Head

NeilP said:


> I let my apartment on short term holiday lets. Contacted by agents today to reduce rent by 33% to try and stimulate business. More confirmation that tourism is suffering really badly.


Do you get many British visitors? If so then that 33% only just covers the drop in sterling, it will cost them pretty much the same as it did before when it was 7 AED to the pound.

Just curious, where is your apartment, how big, how much per week and which agent do you use?


----------



## Goss

Most of the visitors to our villa used to be British-now they are American or European

http://www.dubai-holiday-villa.com/villa_grace_details.html

We charge in Pounds and bookings seem to be going really well.We only take familes now as have had a few problems.


----------



## luvableja

*For WSP*

WSP, could you please explain in all your future posts what floor and give details of the construction work being carried out. Many investors do not have a clue on what you mean when you give all these figures, slab casting 32.44, 29.31 complete etc.... Sorry but some of us have no idea on what you are explaining most of the time!!!


----------



## NeilP

^^

A different league to us I'm afraid. I think the really rich are still really rich. We have medium quality 2bed in Marina Diamond 4 now asking 5950aed a week.


----------



## Mistermark

toledotd1 said:


> shame on you calling your own motherland a toilet.people who do not respect their heritage will never fit in anywhere.


Have you visited the UK lately?


----------



## 234sale

Originally Posted by toledotd1 
shame on you calling your own motherland a toilet.people who do not respect their heritage will never fit in anywhere. 

Have you visited the UK lately?


Mistermark said:


> Have you visited the UK lately?


Yes and it is full to the Brim of a BROWN smell, kind of the smell, that even if we get some fresh air, it will smell of BROWN.

He spent the gold, he undid any positive gain that Maggie had left.. Blair and Brown danced up the path to IRAQ.

NEVER VOTE LABOUR.. I'd rather live in Dubai, praise to UAE goverment. God help the UK.

Its not that we do not respect out heritage, just we have an unelected CLOWN running a Circus.

The UK will have a chance to rise when Labour is gone.. At the moment it is run by people that did nothing to stop the boom and cannot control the bust.


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> The UK will have a chance to rise when Labour is gone.. At the moment it is run by people that did nothing to stop the boom and cannot control the bust.


So what has Shiek Mo done to control 'boom and bust'? Zilch.
At least Gordon Brown has now taken some positive action.
What has Shiek Mo done to try and rectify things? Zilch.
The UK isnt perfect but nor is Dubai.


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> Yes and it is full to the Brim of a BROWN smell, kind of the smell, that even if we get some fresh air, it will smell of BROWN.
> 
> He spent the gold, he undid any positive gain that Maggie had left.. Blair and Brown danced up the path to IRAQ.
> 
> NEVER VOTE LABOUR.. I'd rather live in Dubai, praise to UAE goverment. God help the UK.
> 
> Its not that we do not respect out heritage, just we have an unelected CLOWN running a Circus.
> 
> The UK will have a chance to rise when Labour is gone.. At the moment it is run by people that did nothing to stop the boom and cannot control the bust.


*And that concludes the Party Political Broadcast for the Conservative Party.*


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> Originally Posted by toledotd1
> shame on you calling your own motherland a toilet.people who do not respect their heritage will never fit in anywhere.
> 
> Have you visited the UK lately?
> 
> Yes and it is full to the Brim of a BROWN smell, kind of the smell, that even if we get some fresh air, it will smell of BROWN.
> 
> He spent the gold, he undid any positive gain that Maggie had left.. Blair and Brown danced up the path to IRAQ.
> 
> NEVER VOTE LABOUR.. I'd rather live in Dubai, praise to UAE goverment. God help the UK.
> 
> Its not that we do not respect out heritage, just we have an unelected CLOWN running a Circus.
> 
> The UK will have a chance to rise when Labour is gone.. At the moment it is run by people that did nothing to stop the boom and cannot control the bust.


Apologies if this has been posted in here already...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> So what has Shiek Mo done to control 'boom and bust'? Zilch.
> At least Gordon Brown has now taken some positive action.
> What has Shiek Mo done to try and rectify things? Zilch.
> The UK isnt perfect but nor is Dubai.


Can't argue with that, Shiek Mo seems worse than Brown right now.


----------



## smussuw

What is it that u want him to do? Beside the visa lectures !


----------



## kano

^^^ i think he is pondering ..don't think he can do much at the moment though..


----------



## High Times




----------



## gerald.d

:lol:


----------



## Wannaberich

Sheik Mo please save us.Make us all rich beyond our wildest dreams !


----------



## Richard Head

High Times said:


>


You a Geordie, High Times? Ah Divvent knarrr that.

Also, the progression of the UK stock market is entirely dependent on the relative merits of the prime minister and Chancellor in the chairs at the time. It is in no way influenced by any other external factors, such as the US stock market..................just as a random example :nuts:

Plot the graph of prices of Newky Brown across the same period, then you'll see what I mean. Not so many septics drinking the Brown.


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Sheik Mo please save us.Make us all rich beyond our wildest dreams !


He did that already. Well some of us anyhow.


----------



## HappyLarry

You have got teflon Blair at the right spot. For the steepest boom (2003-2008) we have to thank (never) his role in destroying the lives of 100 of thousands of Iraqis by invading on a false pretext.

And now lol he is special envoy in solving Palestinian/Israel dispute.
hno:

I can't stand the disingenuous shyster. Sorry. Rant over.


----------



## Richard Head

HappyLarry said:


> You have got teflon Blair at the right spot. For the steepest boom (2003-2008) we have to thank (never) his role in destroying the lives of 100 of thousands of Iraqis by invading on a false pretext.
> 
> And now lol he is special envoy in solving Palestinian/Israel dispute.
> hno:
> 
> I can't stand the disingenuous shyster. Sorry. Rant over.




http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=KogebxJkHig&eurl


This is the true culprit. It's also fcuking funny as fcuk.


----------



## HappyLarry

^^ :lol:
Thank you sir. I needed that.
I just wonder how I voted for the **** not once but twice. On the other hand, I do believe that Gordon Brown is a decent guy. :cheers:


----------



## Doctor_UK

*law 13 article 11 relating to default*

*RERA LAW 13 article 11 *

If at the end of the period referred to in item 1 of this Article the purchaser has not fulfilled his contractual obligations, the developer may cancel the contract and repay the purchaser his money *less a deduction that does not exceed 30% of the monies paid by the purchaser*.

... Now my friend have received explanation of this article 11 from the developer.... which is

''*Regarding the interpretetion of Article No. (11) of Law No. 13. 2008 
Regulating the Interim Real Estate Register in the Emirate of Dubai*

In case of cancelling the contract, the developer may retain 30% of the contract's value, and the rule of (30%-70% of the money paid) shall be applied on amounts exceeding 30%.''


.... what the hell does this mean?

*does it mean that if my friend has paid 40% of the purchase price uptill now, then he will have*

a). 30% of the purchase price deducted.

b). 33% of the purchase price deducted (30% + 3%).

c). 30% of the money paid deducted.

thanks for the input.






....


----------



## Ran82

*Tamweel Mortgage*

What happens if:

- you have a flat with Tamweel ready for handover
- have payed the initial 60,000 aed deposit
- don't live in Dubai anymore
- don't have the money to pay the fees for handover
- don't have the money to pay the mortgage
- if you sell, you still don't have the money to pay the difference money between the selling price the mortgage and the fees.
- if you rent, you still don't have the money to pay the difference between the rent and the monthly mortgage.

what you do??????????????

are you then a criminal in Dubai because they have security cheques under your name! :eek2:


----------



## skdubai

desertmaster said:


> The Environment Agency has given water companies in England and Wales a "licence to pollute", says a charity.
> The Marine Conservation Society (MCS) says sewage is being dumped into rivers and coastal waters by thousands of "unregulated" overflow pipes.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7539393.stm
> 
> 
> its happening everywhere !!!!!!!!!!!



Moral of the story, Britain is a shit hole and all of you are better off here than there....

for the rest of the world though, it is a disgrace that a city that wants to become a modern and cosmopolitan city, there are drainages overflowing all over the place. The drainage in front of my office in Dubai Internet City is always overflowing and it stinks and floods a whole section of the parking almost every week!! 

I have to wonder what will happen when all the apartments are completed and occupied!! it is a pain getting those tankers to empty the gutters now, it would be impossible then!!!


----------



## gerald.d

High Times said:


> Tallest Block toilet waste being delivered to the Jewels.


Where abouts is it?

I'm assuming it's a line of trucks filled with poop going to some sewage treatment place?


----------



## Imre

High Times said:


> Tallest Block toilet waste being delivered to the Jewels.


or going back to the sea

Dubai Marina


----------



## High Times

skdubai said:


> Moral of the story, Britain is a shit hole and all of you are better off here than there....


Whereas India is one of the cleanest countries........... well, in the Indian sub continent.

I think someone is forgetting their history and being a tad ungrateful to a nation that dragged India into the modern world kicking and screaming.

Maybe you should get in touch with the millions of your cousins who have also decided, like you, to leave your great country and head for the shit hole you call Britain. Perhaps you could persuade them all to head back home so that this shithole you refer to can offer the indigenous people a few corner shops to run.


----------



## docc

^^ That's just disgraceful. It's things like this that make me doubt Dubai and its future. Heck, and i'm one of the biggest supporters of Dubai!!!


----------



## Wannaberich

Piers Morgan on Dubai

http://www.itv.com/ITVPlayer/Video/default.html?ViewType=5&Filter=34826


----------



## Imre

*ADCB *

*Privilege-Fixed Deposit Bonanza*


It’s amazing what AED 200,000 can do without ever leaving the bank. 

Deposit AED 200,000 for 1 year and choose between:

7%* p.a. interest 
or 
800,000 TouchPoints* plus 2% p.a. interest*

800,000 TouchPoints equals to 114,286 Skywards Miles.

http://www.adcb.ae/personalbanking/adcbprivilegeclub/touchpointsspecialoffer.asp


----------



## AppleMac

gerald.d said:


> Where abouts is it?
> 
> I'm assuming it's a line of trucks filled with poop going to some sewage treatment place?


Its a line of trucks (a several KM long line of trucks) going to the *only* sewage treatment place.

As has already been said, rather than spend upwards of 12 hours in the queus some unscrupulous drivers dump their loads in the storm drains where it washes into the sea untreated.

The police are making very little effort to stop the practice and it will only get better when another treatment plant is opened at the end of the year in Jebel Ali - the authorities have opened a sewage storage plant (hole in the ground) out in the desert but that is too far away to make much difference.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Because its the Dubai Municipality job? :dunno:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

smussuw, why are the police making very little effort to stop the practice? :bash:


----------



## docc

I can't even imagine what those drivers must be going through!


----------



## High Times

docc said:


> I can't even imagine what those drivers must be going through!


Yeah, thats a shit job for sure.


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai_Steve said:


> smussuw, why are the police making very little effort to stop the practice? :bash:


Smussuw;

Time to send you and your team to a S**t Sh**lling training course :lol:

Can you please ask your big boss the same question Steve asked above? :cheers:


----------



## Wannaberich

docc said:


> On a side note, Naz, please go away. You're doing nothing more than trolling and talking crap about Dubai in pretty much every post of yours. Yes, we get it that you sold and got out in time and are happy and blah blah blah. Good for you....now please leave.


:rofl:


What the hell has happened to the love on this forum ?
:lovethem:


----------



## lovedubai

Dubai_Steve said:


> smussuw, why are the police making very little effort to stop the practice? :bash:


Perhaps because it's not usually a police job to look after sewage! Dubai has been built without the basic infrastructure to sustain a modern city. How can you possibly not have an underground sewage system in place before you throw up hundreds of high rise towers? Wait until the first cholera epidemic and then that's when the international media will really start on Dubai.


----------



## Morrismarina

I love Naz :kiss:


----------



## dbxdude

Hanna said:


> Hi All
> 
> 
> I stayed in the Westin Hotel last year in June and used the beach on the
> first day next thing I know I have Vomiting, Dyerera,burning fever and
> headache's was in my bed for 6 days of a 15 day Holiday.This was e-coli
> from the water where I swam I would not recommend anyone to swim there
> as long as they are dumping raw sewage into the storm drains.hno:
> 
> I have been to Dubai on 4 occaisions and last year was the worst because
> of the sea water.And we checked with the Hotel and I was the only one
> effected with these Symptoms.It was later on in the year the story broke
> about the dumping so they were at it before I arrived in June.


Did you get a positive test for ecoli? asking because that is a new hotel and its possible you didnt have ecoli from the sea - i swim in that sea alot and have never been ill, its very hard to catch ecoli from the sea - usually only from stagnenet fresh water - also that sea is packed so if you caught it from the sea there should be hundreds others. With regards to the hotel you stayed at: 

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090201/NATIONAL/671900339/1138

A five-star hotel in Dubai is investigating a possible outbreak of Legionnaires’ disease after the death of a recent guest, the BBC cricket commentator and statistician Bill Frindall.

Frindall, who was 69, died on Friday after falling ill with the infectious disease after a cricket tour of the UAE a fortnight ago. Two other guests of the hotel also fell ill. Their condition was unknown.

It is not known where Frindall contracted the disease. The Westin Dubai Mina Seyahi Beach Resort and Marina, where he was staying, is investigating. 


- perhaps you had something else and you were very lucky ??


----------



## bizzybonita

Real estate sector likely to see consolidation this year 











Some realty brokerages are looking at other aspects of their businesses to sustain themselves as a result of the drop in sales. (ASHAF AL AMRA)

on Sunday, February 01, 2009

This year is likely to see consolidation among real estate brokers and the sector will inevitably shrink because of the slowdown in the market, say UAE-based agents.

Some believe there will be mergers and acquisitions in both the local and regional markets while others expect smaller players to simply disappear. There will be further job cuts, the agents believe, though some companies have been recruiting despite the adverse conditions.

The consolidation process started in the last quarter of 2008 and is likely to continue throughout 2009, according to Andrew Chambers, Managing Director of Asteco Property Management.

"The consolidation will see the disappearance of smaller sales brokerage operations and many individual brokers," he told Emirates Business. "Those companies offering the full range of property services will dominate the industry."

And Charles Neil, Chief Financial Officer of Landmark Properties, said: "Only the larger brokers will be in business by the end of the year. Landmark will be one of those that will survive as it has a diversified income base.

"Henceforth, customers will deal only with the well-known brokerage firms, particularly when they are placing deposits through them and want to ensure their funds are safe."

Robert Macnair, Sales Director of Elysian Real Estate, said the consolidation began at the tail end of last year.

"Realty brokers have had a real wake-up call," he added. "What has happened, certainly in our case, is that we adapted immediately to the situation. We have cut back on all unnecessary overheads and luxuries and poured the money saved into marketing.

"The market has been changing by the day and unless brokers are running at the same pace as Dubai agents could fall by the wayside, as a large number already have."

Iseeb Rehman, Managing Director of Sherwoods Property Consultants, said: "Smaller companies will definitely merge and consolidate into one big brokerage firm as in the current market scenario it is difficult for smaller companies to survive by themselves."

However, some agents said the number of mergers and acquisitions would be limited as the brokerage sector was a "people business" and companies had no tangible assets.

Neil added: "The brokerage sector is all about goodwill and if people leave your company you have lost the purpose behind a merger or takeover."

Some brokers believe M&A activity will be greatest among middle-tier agencies.

Peter Penhall, CEO of Gowealthy.com, said: "Generally the broking fraternity is a service industry and the bigger names and brands have spent a good deal of time and effort positioning themselves. We do not see an appropriate value-added position coming from M&A for the bigger names in the industry."

Brokers said it would be difficult for agencies that were not multi-disciplinary to survive if the number of sales transactions did not increase. The most professional companies will survive.

Some agencies would suspend their activities with a view to returning to the market when conditions improved while others would diversify.

Macnair said: "The companies that are focused on business development, both in Dubai and overseas, will be the survivors. It may be that some companies may merge, but personally I see it as a time to develop and fine-tune key salespeople and improve customer care. Also at the moment there is more time to look at your own business, as we have. This has brought fresh ideas and new drive."

The brokers said there would be further lay-offs in the sector in 2009.

Neil added: "There will be job cuts as brokerage house cashflows dry up. However, many agents and brokers will leave of their own accord as their incomes will drop and they will need to find alternative employment.

"At Landmark, we are still recruiting staff with proven track records into our leasing, property management and sales divisions. The company has been moving staff into other areas of activity in order to give them new opportunities to generate income."

Penhall said: "As the market continues to adjust to the changes being forced upon it, there will naturally be further human resource rationalisation. I believe we will witness a shift in numbers in favour of the rental and leasing sector, which is expected to remain reasonably resilient. Brokerage entities and their staff will certainly need to adjust their strategies.

"Fortunately, we have not had to consider such severe strategies at this point as our brand's presence in the local and international markets has ensured that we retain an acceptable level of sales activity from our regular investor clients as well as the international public. At the corporate level, good support and commitment to our sales team will pay dividends going forward."

Elysian has "consolidated in-house", according to Macnair, who added: "We have battened down the hatches, so to speak, in order to weather the rough times ahead. However, we have also been recruiting high-calibre sales professionals from companies that appear to have buried their heads in the sand or are simply in denial over the whole situation.

"Since October 2008, we have increased our sales force by 105 per cent. What has kept our sales team positive and also generating income is the ability to adapt. We encourage the team to learn about the rentals and leasing market as well as the commercial, off-plan and end-use side. They are becoming true sales professionals as opposed to order-takers – the latter will not make it through the challenging times ahead."

Asteco has seen a minimal drop in staff numbers and recruitment in the last few months in areas such as its investment agency and property management section.

And Sherwoods' Rehman said: "We will continue to see job cuts in the market but at the same time you will see companies hiring the right staff. In that respect, the industry will balance out its staff strength."

Agents who cannot operate in other areas such as leasing rather than just handling sales are likely to lose their jobs in today's market. And the slowdown will inevitably affect companies' profitability.

Chambers said firms engaged only in brokerage would find it much harder to achieve good profits this year than those offering a range of property services.

Real Estate brokers Cluttons partner Michael Grant said brokerages were looking at other aspects of their businesses, such as leasing or property management, to sustain themselves as a result of the drop in sales.

And Neil said: "Brokerages that relied purely on sales must be finding it tough to cover salaries and rents. Landmark is the only brokerage company to have a brokerage licence, an advisory licence and a property management licence.

Penhall said: "As with most businesses throughout the world today, a certain amount of rationalisation in staff numbers is inevitable to ensure that operating costs as a percentage of income remain reasonable and commercially viable.

"Apart from a nominal element of cost rationalisation, we at Gowealthy have chosen to focus rather on our efficiencies and income-generating dynamics. One must always place things into context – remember 2008 was a record year for the brokerage market in Dubai, so cycles are inevitable."

Rehman said the recent job cuts in the industry had been handled according to Ministry of Labour regulations.

"The agents were earning good money when the going was good and they are aware that they were in a high-risk, high-reward job," he added.

Meanwhile top brokerage firms are working with the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) to form a professional body regulated in accordance with the property laws. But Penhall said: "Due to the state of the market we anticipate that work on forming this body will slow as it is probably not the highest priority at this stage."

And the brokers agreed that what Dubai needed at the moment was to see the banks start lending in the property market again to revive the sector.



Agent trust account

The Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) plans to make it mandatory for real estate brokers to open trust accounts this year. The real estate broker trust account law will be issued under the by-law No85 of 2006 regarding the Regulation of Real Estate Brokers Register. The move is part of Rera's initiative to boost confidence and bring transparency to the brokerage industry.

"We are in the final stages of setting this real estate broker trust account," Marwan bin Ghalitha, Chief Executive Officer, Rera told Emirates Business in November.

According to the new regulation, the trust account will ensure that all the money received or transferred under a deal between the seller and the buyer such as the down payment or commission will go into the trust account only. Rera is yet to finalise the bank that will manage the trust account.



The broker law

By-Law No (85) of 2006 regarding the Regulation of Real Estate Brokers Register in Dubai was issued on May 30, 2006, and came into force immediately. The by-Law was issued pursuant to Article (6) and Article (28) of Law No (7) of 2006 concerning Real Property Registration in Dubai.

According to the law, it is applicable to all real estate brokers who deal in the sale and purchase of property that is registered at the Dubai Land Department (DLD).

In addition to the requirement to obtain and maintain a trade licence from the Dubai Department of Economic Development, a regulated broker is required to apply for registration in the Brokers Register maintained by the DLD.

Breach of the law or the code of ethics may result in a warning, notice, suspension from work for a period of up to six months, blacklisting or cancellation of the broker's registration.

A new council is established at the DLD to hear disputes related to brokerage. This is not a mandatory form of dispute resolution and both parties must agree for their dispute to be referred to the council, which will act as a conciliator, not an arbitrator, and neither party is bound to accept its findings and recommendations. However, if the referral to the council results in a mutually agreed settlement of the dispute, such settlement is enforceable through the courts.

Via business24-7.ae


----------



## desertmaster

UAE Urged to Spend SWF to Revive Economy: Advisory Chief(Reuters)

1 February 2009 Print E-mail 
DAVOS - The United Arab Emirates should spend part of its sovereign wealth fund to revive the economy and must delay property projects as demand vanishes, the head of its advisory council said on Saturday.

Abdul Aziz Al Ghurair, speaker of the Federal National Council (FNC) which advises the rulers, also said the government must inject more liquidity to boost the economy but banks were sound due to their high capital adequacy ratios.

The UAE is home to the world’s biggest sovereign wealth fund as the Gulf nation has kept massive oil windfall revenues to preserve wealth for the future generation. Analysts estimates assets at the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority are worth around $500 billion.

“We have built up huge reserves of $300-500 billion. We can put it into some projects... otherwise when do we spend it? It’s for a rainy day,” Ghurair told Reuters at the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum.

“We have to adjust to (lower) growth. We must review certain projects. We must postpone the kind of real estate oriented projects. Demand is not there. But the government is committed to accelerate infrastructure projects.”

The UAE central bank and finance ministry have together launched 120 billion UAE dirhams ($32.67 billion) of emergency funding since September to help banks cope with tight credit conditions.

“To keep the economy going, we need to pump in some more liquidity,” said Ghurair, whose family ranks among the world’s wealthiest according to the Forbes rich list.

New lending in the UAE has lost steam in the last five months as banks become more prudent because they face higher borrowing costs and the prospect that some customers may default on real estate loans as property prices fall in Dubai.

The central bank expects credit growth in the second-largest Arab economy would slow to no more than 10 percent this year, after soaring more than 50 percent in the year to June.

The UAE and other Gulf nations are facing a sharp slowdown as oil prices — the region’s main source of revenue — tumble more than $100 since a peak last July.

Ghurair said oil price fluctuations did not matter much to the diversified UAE economy, but oil prices below $60-70 a barrel could sap incentives for companies to invest in oil exploration, leading eventually to higher prices.

“It will result in shortage of supply. The world economy will pay for it — they are now getting a discount.”

Ghurair, who is also chairman of Dubai-based Mashreqbank, said UAE banks, including his, had a capital adequacy ratio of 14 percent and the financial system was sound.

Ghurair said he expects Mashreqbank’s profit to be flat in 2009. The full-year result for last year is due soon. Mashreqbank posted a third-quarter profit of 346 million UAE dirhams, down 12.5 percent from the same period last year, due to a decline in investment income.


----------



## V Kapoor

If banks stop lending.....Capital Adequacy Ratio will automatically increase!


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai_Steve said:


> :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
> 
> Thank you smussuw for making this come true!
> 
> :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:


Look at what else he has done for you:

"A special police task force also was created to prevent illegal sewage dumping in the Gulf"


----------



## smussuw

mackie1964 said:


> Great find Steve, I hope that they have dealt with it in full. What really worried us was the officials denying that there was a problem. We knew that there was a problem because my wife spoke to two particular hotels to book and asked specifically about this issue. :cheers:
> 
> Hopefully they will learn that covering things up does more harm than good. Can someone check on Imre? He had a swim there this afternoon :lol::banana:
> 
> A good day today:cheers:


The didn't deny it as far as I remember. They warned people not go and swim in those beaches before !


----------



## Rob Timpie

Yes,

bought a year ago an apartment (1 B/R) in Gardenia IV (JVS).
Still not launched yet! hno:
Also a MEMON PROJECT... :nuts:


----------



## tehsin123

Quite disturbing list.

A list of project cancellations and delays of properties in Dubai, which has been emailed to Kipp on at least three occasions, has caused a stir among the emirate’s expatriates.

If the list is accurate, then approximately $72.563 billion worth of projects are on hold, and $3.275 billion have been cancelled.

Kipp called a number of the developers on the list to confirm the rumors, and received mixed results. According to the list, Falcon City of Wonders, which it claims is being built by ETA Star, has been cancelled. However, the development is being built by Salem Al Moosa Enterprise.

Yet, Damac Property’s projects that are listed as “on hold,” such as Water’s Edge in Business Bay, and Business Bay: Burjside Boulevard are “experiencing delays,” explained the customer service operator.

When asked how long the projects will be delayed, she was unable to specify.

Kipp also called Dubai Properties to enquire after Signature Towers and Porsche Design Towers, both in Business Bay, but was met with a labyrinth of clueless operators and hesitant staff. We also called Nakheel, but the public relations department was unavailable.

Understandably, if the list proves to be accurate, then a number of developers have some explaining to do. Why wait for a random email to circulate before announcing the news to the public?

However, if the list is wrong, then it merely plays on expatriates’ already gloomy sentiment toward Dubai’s property sector…it may explain why the emails sent to Kipp with the list attached were sent by people who believed (blindingly) in the list’s accuracy.










http://www.kippreport.com/kipp/2009/02/01/list-of-losers/


----------



## tehsin123

UAE considering establishment of crisis committee
Web posted at: 2/1/2009 8:21:30
Source ::: AFP

DUBAI: The United Arab Emirates is considering the establishment of an emergency committee to deal with the impact of the global financial crisis, the Ministry of Economy said yesterday.

The committee would involve the Ministry of Economy, economic departments, municipalities and the public and private sectors, the ministry said in a statement.

The proposal for the committee came after a meeting between the UAE Economy Minister Sultan bin Saeed al-Mansouri and heads of the country’s economic departments, the ministry said.

A special team established by the ministry will study the proposal before sending its report to the UAE government’s cabinet for approval, the statement said.

Meanwhile, The number of property developers registered in Dubai has fallen by around 40 percent in two months, the head of the emirate’s real estate regulator said in remarks published yesterday. There are around 500 developers registered in Dubai, compared with more than 800 in November, Marwan Bin Ghalita, chief executive of the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA), said


:bash:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

mackie1964 said:


> Look at what else he has done for you:
> 
> "A special police task force also was created to prevent illegal sewage dumping in the Gulf"


:bow: smussuw for president :bow:


----------



## AltinD

smussuw said:


> The didn't deny it as far as I remember. They warned people not go and swim in those beaches before !


No they didn't.


... and I had a swim in Jumeirah Beach Club back in mid October, a few weeks after the problem started. Mackie, I'm still here alive and kicking :lol:


----------



## smussuw

AltinD said:


> No they didn't.
> 
> 
> ... and I had a swim in Jumeirah Beach Club back in mid October, a few weeks after the problem started. Mackie, I'm still here alive and kicking :lol:


They didn't warn or they did?

I remember reading the warning in the Arabic newspaper but that was like 2-3 months ago :dunno:


----------



## bizzybonita

AltinD said:


> No they didn't.
> 
> 
> ... and I had a swim in Jumeirah Beach Club back in mid October, a few weeks after the problem started. Mackie, I'm still here alive and kicking :lol:


also tell him iam not with Select tails :lol::lol:


----------



## mackie1964

AltinD said:


> No they didn't.
> 
> 
> ... and I had a swim in Jumeirah Beach Club back in mid October, a few weeks after the problem started. Mackie, I'm still here alive and kicking :lol:


:lol::lol::lol:

Is Everything still working as it should :lol::banana::banana:



bizzybonita said:


> also tell him iam not with Select tails :lol::lol:


OK, OK, back to top of the list again :lol:


----------



## smussuw

Dubai_Steve said:


> :bow: smussuw for president :bow:


Fine

Impose a dress code, ban alcohol, close all night clubs, force Arabic language, restrict having personal cars to whose salary is above 20k, what else :banana:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

smussuw said:


> Fine
> 
> Impose a dress code, ban alcohol, close all night clubs, force Arabic language, restrict having personal cars to whose salary is above 20k, what else :banana:


:lol:

Force Arabic language. -- I tried but too difficut for those above 30 

Restrict having personal cars to whose salary is above 20k. -- How about the retired, who do not have an official salary? 

Others I can live with.


----------



## mackie1964

smussuw said:


> Fine
> 
> Impose a dress code, ban alcohol, close all night clubs, force Arabic language, restrict having personal cars to whose salary is above 20k, what else :banana:


Bikini :dunno:

Will it be allowed under the new dress code?

What about Dubai Working Girls?


----------



## AltinD

mackie1964 said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> Is Everything still working as it should :lol::banana::banana:


Oh *YEAH*!!!! :lol::banana::lol:


----------



## AltinD

smussuw said:


> They didn't warn or they did?
> 
> I remember reading the warning in the Arabic newspaper but that was like 2-3 months ago :dunno:


They DID.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

smussuw said:


> Fine


Please can you get Dubailand's tourist project construction underway at full speed such as the major theme parks. Residential parts can come later when the crisis is over. These quiet times should be used to work, build and increase the value of Dubai with non residential projects. By building Dubailand now and not later, it will create great demand when the crisis is over. Time to get ahead now and not later when it is too late.


----------



## gerald.d

3 BR+Study in Arabian Ranches listed for the second time in a week on Dubizzle for 190K.


----------



## Imre

mackie1964 said:


> Can someone check on Imre? He had a swim there this afternoon :lol::banana:
> 
> A good day today:cheers:


Nothing wrong, I am still here and going there today as well. Weather is getting better, yesterday was 31 C


----------



## gerald.d

I can confirm Imre is fine, and that the waters are clean and healthy.

I was down at the beach at the weekend and snapped this photo of him as he emerged from the water -


----------



## Imre

:lol::lol:

*No 'one villa, one family' rule in Dubai *

Dubai: There is no "one villa, one family" rule in Dubai and the campaign against overcrowded villas has been misunderstood, a top civil official said on Sunday.

"The municipality has started a campaign against overcrowding in villas to ensure the safety and security of residents," clarified Hussain Nasser Lootah, Director General of the Dubai Municipality.

He said the campaign was targeted against high numbers of people living in villas meant for smaller numbers.

"We can accept five to eight people in a villa - depending on its size - but not 20 to 30 people," he said. 

He explained that overcrowding puts pressure on civic service and also created security and safety problems. 

"We face overflowing sewage, water and parking shortages and garbage collection problems in overcrowded villas because facilities in the areas have been designed according to the need of the areas. Overcrowding creates a lot of social implications also," he added.

*He said the municipality did not have any problem with more than one family living in a villa, provided it was big enough.*

"But let me clarify here as well that tenants and landlords cannot decide on this issue, because many landlords, especially real estate agents, are greedy and try to make more money by renting villas to a maximum number of people.

"Families sharing a villa have to seek permission from the municipality to know whether a villa is big enough to accommodate a certain number of people," he added.

Lootah said that the main objective of the campaign was to ensure a clean environment.

Since the campaign began in 2005, thousands of villa owners have been fined.

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Housing_and_Property/10281267.html


this is totally rubbish, my friends villa had 4 family together , the villa was huge but they had to leave because of the DM...
there is at least 8-10 huge ghost villa now


----------



## AltinD

Maha said:


> PS, I'm a Dubai working girl and , ehm, no, I don't wear a bikini at work.


I think he was refering to a different category of Dubai Working Girls :laugh:


----------



## 234sale

No job loss for me... I am not a comission based employee, I work in Construction, Development, Finance and Real Estate Field.

I get car, fuel, phone, health care + expenses
+
Salary 2006, 30000AED 6 days a week (192 Hours) = 156 AED Hour
Salary 2007, 35000AED 6 days a week (192 Hours) = 183 AED Hour
Salary 2008, 35000AED 5.5days a week (176 Hours) = 198 AED Hour
Salary 2009, 25000AED 5 days a week (160 Hours) = 156 AED Hour

So £56K a year.

Basically same wage as when I started.

I got a settlement 30,000 AED Cash (change of salary based on renumartion of 3 years service with my company.) Still keeping my end of service bonus if I do leave but at the new level.

I checked what job I could get in the UK, a few offers working with Local Councils, Highway Agency. £35K + Car. but Taxed. 

So I am staying here, now I must negioate my rent to 120,000 from 150,000


----------



## Imre

Press Release

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

*DM clarification *

*Sharing is permitted only in villas designed for multiple families *


Dubai, 02 February 2009: Dubai Municipality has clarified that multiple families are allowed only in villas designed for that purpose and that are duly licensed by the municipality in specified areas. 

According to Omar AbdurRahman, Head of Building Inspection Section at Dubai Municipality, this is not a revision of the previous policy and does not contradict any statements issued by the municipality before. 

"There are various types of villas licensed in Dubai. Most of them are meant for use by just one family. However, in some areas (for example, but not limited to, Mirdif and Al Barsha) there are multiple villas in a single compound that are designed for varying number of families with enough partition and segregation licensed by the municipality. Only in such cases, we will allow more than one family," he said. 

He noted that all buildings in Dubai are being licensed taking into consideration the existing service infrastructure including water, electricity, roads, parking…etc. To use those buildings in contravention of the rules will add pressure on the entire infrastructure resulting in breakdown of some services," he said.

AbdurRahman added that overcrowding would also pose serious threats to the residents' safety and security and the municipality is keen on preventing any untoward incident such as fires.


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai Property Prices May Fall Up to 50 Per Cent*

Dubai Property Prices May Fall Up to 50 Per Cent: Research
Issac John

2 February 2009
DUBAI - Prices of residential and commercial property in Dubai are predicted to plunge this year by up to 50 per cent and 40 per cent respectively as the real estate market reels under pressures of a correction sparked by weak demand, findings by a new market research show.

Residential rents of both apartments and villas are also forecast to drop by 25 per cent while commercial rents are poised “to fare even worse,” according to the report by Landmark Advisory, the research wing of a Dubai-based property company.

“Apartment prices will fall on an average by 20 per cent, with individual declines ranging between 10 and 50 per cent depending on the development. Average villa prices are likely to remain relatively stable with up to 10 per cent average drop with lower quality units bearing the brunt of these declines,” the report said. Villa rents are expected to fall on average by 25 per cent with low quality units hardest hit.

According to the report, residential prices peaked in October 2008, fell through to December, and continue to fall. “Assuming that the current downturn will affect prices in line with historical average of 35.5 per cent, then Dubai’s average price floor will fall from a peak Dh1,556 to Dh1,000 per square foot.”

Office sale prices are predicted to drop 35-40 per cent due to corporate downsizing as companies consolidate their offices to reduce overhead, the report said. Land prices that fell significantly in 2008 will fall by up to 50 per cent. While warehouse prices are likely to increase 30-40 per cent due to undersupply and untapped leasing potential, rents will rise by 10 per cent.”

Another steep fall, the report said, will be in the case of labour camps. Prices will fall by 30-40 per cent while rents are head for up to 35 per cent fall as construction contract volumes plummet by 75 per cent.

Landmark’s forecast is in line with those made by Global Investment House. Noting that properties in the secondary market have fallen as deep as 40 per cent, Global said: “Looking ahead in 2009, we expect to see further price correction for freehold properties in the range of 15-30 per cent, however, and rents to decline by 15-25 per cent in 2009 due the lack of demand in line with the economic slowdown which forced many Dubai firms to downsize or halt their expansion plans which will likely result in a decline in the number of expatriates in Dubai.

The Landmark report notes that during the transition from a supply-driven property market to a demand-driven one, prices are no longer dictated by developers. “In the year ahead, consumer preferences, access to capital, and income levels will reshape demand patterns and redefine the market. As new supply encounters slowing demand, the market will reward developers who deliver quality and punish who do not.”

The report said the average income levels in Dubai were likely to stagnate due to redundancies and lower salaries. “The financial crisis has slowed demand: personal incomes, job security, and confidence are declining. An improvement of confidence among banks and investors will be the critical first step towards the recovery of the property market. Despite special access to government funds, banks have reverted to austere lending practices that restrict the availability of much-needed capital. The availability of financing will be critical factor for boosting the economy and rehabilitating real estate transaction volumes. Until the recovery of the property market, developers, investors, and landlords must adapt flexible and innovative approach to survive,” it said.


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> No job loss for me... I am not a comission based employee, I work in Construction, Development, Finance and Real Estate Field.
> 
> I get car, fuel, phone, health care + expenses
> +
> Salary 2006, 30000AED 6 days a week (192 Hours) = 156 AED Hour
> Salary 2007, 35000AED 6 days a week (192 Hours) = 183 AED Hour
> Salary 2008, 35000AED 5.5days a week (176 Hours) = 198 AED Hour
> Salary 2009, 25000AED 5 days a week (160 Hours) = 156 AED Hour
> 
> So £56K a year.
> 
> Basically same wage as when I started.
> 
> I got a settlement 30,000 AED Cash (change of salary based on renumartion of 3 years service with my company.) Still keeping my end of service bonus if I do leave but at the new level.
> 
> I checked what job I could get in the UK, a few offers working with Local Councils, Highway Agency. £35K + Car. but Taxed.
> 
> So I am staying here, now I must negioate my rent to 120,000 from 150,000


nah nah, nah nah nah.

Way to go,

Thats about as vulgar as it gets. Posting your earnings and financial details on an a property based internet forum.

Why......................... hno:


----------



## smussuw

234sale said:


> No job loss for me... I am not a comission based employee, I work in Construction, Development, Finance and Real Estate Field.
> 
> I get car, fuel, phone, health care + expenses
> +
> Salary 2006, 30000AED 6 days a week (192 Hours) = 156 AED Hour
> Salary 2007, 35000AED 6 days a week (192 Hours) = 183 AED Hour
> Salary 2008, 35000AED 5.5days a week (176 Hours) = 198 AED Hour
> Salary 2009, 25000AED 5 days a week (160 Hours) = 156 AED Hour
> 
> So £56K a year.
> 
> Basically same wage as when I started.
> 
> I got a settlement 30,000 AED Cash (change of salary based on renumartion of 3 years service with my company.) Still keeping my end of service bonus if I do leave but at the new level.
> 
> I checked what job I could get in the UK, a few offers working with Local Councils, Highway Agency. £35K + Car. but Taxed.
> 
> So I am staying here, now I must negioate my rent to 120,000 from 150,000


This is my first time hearing about reducing salaries :shocked:


----------



## Imre

234sale said:


> 4E Springs, approx 1.5M AED on gulfnews....
> 
> Anyone think these will be 1M AED?


maybe soon:bash:

every day more and more cheap price , found today Park Island 1 bed for 1 million, Marina Promenade 1 bed for 1.23 million, Goldcrest Views 2 , studio for 385.000, Jumeirah Heights , OP and minus premium etc..


----------



## 234sale

I had 3 choices,

Say good bye...
Take a lower salary...
Take a retainer for 1 year... then come back.

I work for a very fair, small but international company. We never expanded in 2007 - 8 due to a conservative attitude. I do understand the reason behind the pay cut, I have a very easy job hence the time I spend on SSC.


----------



## dbxdude

Hanna said:


> Dubai Property Prices May Fall Up to 50 Per Cent: Research
> Issac John
> 
> 2 February 2009
> DUBAI - Prices of residential and commercial property in Dubai are predicted to plunge this year by up to 50 per cent and 40 per cent respectively as the real estate market reels under pressures of a correction sparked by weak demand, findings by a new market research show.
> 
> .


Hello, it already happened. Talk about reporting the facts after the event. 50% discounts everywhere.......


----------



## dbxdude

Imre said:


> maybe soon:bash:
> 
> every day more and more cheap price , found today Park Island 1 bed for 1 million, Marina Promenade 1 bed for 1.23 million, Goldcrest Views 2 , studio for 385.000, Jumeirah Heights , OP and minus premium etc..


yer but most of these haven't been built. Off plan is dead.... 

also i think 1 beds and studios will have more downside. but 2m for a 2500 sft villa in AR or 2.9 for a 3200 villa in JP is about as good as its going to get...


----------



## 234sale

dbxdude said:


> Hello, it already happened. Talk about reporting the facts after the event. 50% discounts everywhere.......


What we are seeing is the over streched liquidate asap. Rents must come down, so must service charges.


----------



## Imre

Hanna said:


> “Apartment prices will fall on an average by 20 per cent, with individual declines ranging between 10 and 50 per cent depending on the development. *Average villa prices are likely to remain relatively stable with up to 10 per cent average drop *with lower quality units bearing the brunt of these declines,” the report said. Villa rents are expected to fall on average by 25 per cent with low quality units hardest hit.


what about off plan villa prices?

Palm Jebel Ali , Garden Home 3.3 million 
Palm Jebel Ali , Waterhome, 2.14 m 
Palm Jebel Alim Signature Villa , 5.7 m

also PJA , Garden Home , OP 2.86 m+5 % premium

(GN)


----------



## 234sale

High Times said:


> nah nah, nah nah nah.
> 
> Way to go,
> 
> Thats about as vulgar as it gets. Posting your earnings and financial details on an a property based internet forum.
> 
> Why......................... hno:


Its just an example, just as you are making your own example.

As to why,, because everyone who has a job is facing pressure. Maybe they take a pay cut without getting renumeration.



http://www.ameinfo.com/183399.html


> Property prices on the Palm Jumeirah, the island dubbed the 'eighth wonder of the world', have fallen by over 50% since September 2008 amid fears the global credit crisis is stalling the emirate's economy.


----------



## AltinD

I'm not in the industry, and my salary or benefits are not at stake. 

What might be at stake would be my positioning in UAE, but that would have nothing to do with UAE or the current crisis rather other factors related to our main markets in South-East Europe. I have hearing that possibility for a couple of years already but nothing finalized as of yet. If it happens I would be back in Austria (most probably) with the same or a higher salary.

Has to be said that while I have all expenses covered (including 2br accomodation), my base salary is lower then the figures just shown here.


----------



## gerald.d

dbxdude said:


> Hello, it already happened. Talk about reporting the facts after the event. 50% discounts everywhere.......


They probably mean _another_ 50%.


----------



## Wannaberich

gerald.d said:


> They probably mean _another_ 50%.


Which means -75% from peak.
Cheers Sheik Mo for inviting everyone to invest in your great country then taking no action when things collapse. :cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Residential property prices in Dubai have fallen 25 per cent since peaking last September, with high-end real estate units in the emirate taking the biggest hit, Morgan Stanley said.

Real estate prices in UAE capital Abu Dhabi are also down an average of 20 percent since a peak last summer as the UAE's property sector is dealt a 'worse than expected' blow by the global financial crisis, Morgan Stanley said in a research note.

'Anecdotal evidence suggests sharp falls in transaction volumes in the fourth quarter due to deteriorating economic conditions, the disappearance of speculative buying and the lack of financing,' the bank said in the January 30 note.

Since September, Dubai apartment prices have fallen 25 percent and villa prices are off 26 percent, 'belying the argument of some developers about the prices resilience of villas and low-rise building segments', Morgan Stanley said.

Prices of high-end Dubai properties -- including those at the Burj Dubai development that includes the world's tallest tower, as well as the man-made Palm Jumeirah -- are down 35 percent since their peak, the bank said.

Dubai's building boom has unraveled since the autumn amid a worsening global financial crisis that has led to scores of job losses and project delays. Some $263 billion worth of projects in the UAE have been delayed or cancelled, Morgan Stanley said, citing data of Middle East business information website Zawya.

Emaar Properties is likely to be the 'worst affected' among Dubai developers by the change in selling prices, Morgan Stanley said.

'We believe that Emaar runs a high risk of sales returns and defaults among its recent launches,' it said. 'The company's high-end developments, the Burj area and The Old Town, have taken the biggest hit since the peak.' 

Analysts surveyed by Reuters in December said they expected Emaar's fourth-quarter profit to fall 7.5 percent. The stock has fallen about 17 percent this year.

Morgan Stanley said real estate units at Aldar Properties' Raha Beach development had suffered a near 30-percent downturn in prices since hitting a peak last summer.

Rents in Dubai, meanwhile, were down 7 percent in December from a peak last summer, while the cost of renting villas had declined 10 percent, the bank added.- Reuters


----------



## smussuw

400% increase and then 75% drop

1X ==> 4X ==> 1X, sounds fair to me :banana:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ I don't like you anymore :lol:


----------



## Imre

*Work to stop on Emaar schemes*

Updated: 01 February 2009 09:02
Work at several Emaar Properties schemes in Dubai is expected to come to a halt in the coming weeks, after the local developer told contractors to stop ordering materials.

http://www.meed.com/news/2009/02/work_to_stop_on_emaar_schemes.html


----------



## speculator

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7863810.stm

I have been saying to friends in the UK how clean the UAE is. Not sure how true now. These days if you google dubai in google news you mainly see stories of infected sea and disease's. Last thing Dubai needs with all the other problems they have.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Tom_Green said:


> Dubailand is shit. The theme parks are far away plans. If the property boom would continue, they would have filled up Dubailand with villas, apartments towers, golf courses and shopping malls.


and what will they fill Dubailand up with now then? -- and don't say sewage :lol:


----------



## speculator

luluprovence said:


> Does anyone have this list as the above url site does not open up the list at all or was the sama dubai 10/12 projects the list?
> 
> Thank you,
> Lulu


PM me your email and ill send it.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Money2Burn said:


> attractions to attract tourist, not flippers.


I hope so but I doubt anything will happen now. Is Universal City on hold?


----------



## Money2Burn

Dubai_Steve said:


> and what will they fill Dubailand up with now then? -- and don't say sewage :lol:


attractions to attract tourist, not flippers.


----------



## Money2Burn

the list has been posted by me last weekin the on hold forum and project cancalation forum


----------



## Money2Burn

Imre said:


> *Work to stop on Emaar schemes*
> 
> Updated: 01 February 2009 09:02
> Work at several Emaar Properties schemes in Dubai is expected to come to a halt in the coming weeks, after the local developer told contractors to stop ordering materials.
> 
> http://www.meed.com/news/2009/02/work_to_stop_on_emaar_schemes.html


please copypaste it for us, I am sure I am not the only one getting this:

This content is only available to full MEED package subscribers (MEED magazine and MEED.com).


----------



## Salameer

Panic amongst posters here has reached a new low. Maybe, this is the low and the only way is up! 

chin up lads. I know most of us are swimming in deep doodoo :cheers:


----------



## Arno Salzl

Money2Burn said:


> please copypaste it for us, I am sure I am not the only one getting this:
> 
> This content is only available to full MEED package subscribers (MEED magazine and MEED.com).


Work at several Emaar Properties schemes in Dubai is expected to come to a halt in the coming weeks, after the local developer told contractors to stop ordering materials.
It is understood that the decision affects projects at Dubai Marina and the Burj Dubai development, but not the Burj Dubai tower.

According to contractors, all materials that have been delivered to the site will be used, but no fresh orders will be placed. When the current stock is used up, work will stop.

Emaar says it is seeking cheaper deals. No date has been given to restart procurement.

"Emaar Properties is in discussions with our contractors and consultants regarding the procurement strategy to achieve potential cost savings gained from the decline in the price of raw materials globally," says an Emaar spokesman.

"This is part of our strategy to take advantage of opportunities [that have] arisen as a result of current global economic conditions."

Author: Colin Foreman. Gulf Bureau Chief
Dubai


----------



## Arno Salzl

*Late-paying state-controlled real estate developers owe leading contractors billions of dirhams.*

also from MEED, FEB 1,08:

Leading contractors working in Dubai say they are owed billions of dirhams by government-controlled real estate developers, and are calling for a state-backed financial rescue package to stop firms from going bankrupt.

MEED has spoken to 25 of the largest contractors working in the emirate and all report problems with late payment from major real estate developers, with some firms claiming to be owed more than AED1bn ($272m). Contractors say that among the worst late-payers are the state-controlled master developers, such as Nakheel, Sama Dubai, Dubai Properties, Tatweer and Emaar Properties.

"We are owed hundreds of millions of dirhams," says one Dubai-based contractor. "It is all from government or quasi-government companies, such as Tatweer, Nakheel, Sama Dubai, Dubai Properties and Emaar Properties."

The concerns are such that the government is now trying to assess the impact of late payments on the construction industry.

On 26 January, Mohamed Ali al-Abbar, chairman of the recently formed Dubai Advisory Council and chairman of Emaar, held a meeting with contractors to discuss the extent of the problems.

"We are owed hundreds of millions of dirhams. It is all from government or quasi-government companies"

Dubai-based contractorContractors attending the meeting included Al-Basti & Muktha, Al-Naboodah Contracting, Khansaheb Civil Engineering and Arabtec Construction, all local, Al-Futtaim Carillion and Dutco Balfour Beatty, both local/UK, Al-Habtoor Leighton Group and Nasa Multiplex, both local/Australian, and the UK's Laing O'Rouke.

It is understood that the contractors have been asked to disclose how much money is owed to them.

Contractors say the industry requires a massive injection of liquidity to prevent companies going out of business, and are comparing the scale and importance of the crisis with that faced by US car makers.

"It is a mega problem, and they have to solve it," says one Dubai-based contractor who asked not to be named. "You do not get out of situations like this without doing something radical. The banks have been given liquidity, but that has not found its way down into the market.

"In the US, the car companies are being bailed out because they are among the country's largest employers. Construction must account for about half the people employed in Dubai, so why do we not get any support? We are vital to the whole economy."

The problem of late payments has developed slowly over the past four months, following the collapse of Dubai's real estate market. Since October, developers have struggled to sell new properties and prices and transaction volumes on the secondary market have fallen sharply. This has hit revenues and created cash flow problems for developers.

The knock-on effect on contractors has only emerged recently, however, as the typical payment terms in Dubai involve 28 days for a consultant to certify that a contractor has completed its work, followed by a 60-day payment period - a total of 88 days.

"During those 88 days, you continue working, continue getting certificates, but at the end of that time you do not get paid," says the contractor. "If the contract is then terminated, it can take four to five months of negotiations before you get your money."

Tatweer, Nakheel, Sama Dubai and Dubai Properties all declined to comment.

A spokesman at Emaar says it is paying its contractors in accordance with its contractual obligations. "Payments for contractors and consultants are based on a credit cycle and set deliverables agreed with them," says the spokesman. "All payments that meet the criteria have been honoured and will continue to be cleared, in line with our contractual agreements."

Without an injection of liquidity into the market, contractors fear that companies will be forced out of business. "We are not paying our subcontractors," says another Dubai-based contractor. "It is simple. Either we go under or they go under. We have to look after ourselves first."

Wage bills are another major concern. At the end of January, contractors will need to pay thousands of men, and if they do not have enough cash, their workers will not be paid.

"There will be issues with non-payment of salaries," says the contractor. "Something has to happen. There will be someone out there that will not be able to pay salaries this month. It is only a matter of time. There is going to be a huge problem."

Construction workers in Dubai have protested before over pay issues. In 2006, workers rioted at the Burj Dubai site, and in 2007, workers went on strike as the Indian rupee depreciated against the dirham, making their remittances worth far less.

The real estate and construction sectors are vital to Dubai's economy. US credit ratings agency Standard & Poor's estimates they account for almost half of the emirate's GDP.


----------



## Arno Salzl

*State-backed giant Dubai Holding seeks to cut costs and restart stalled projects by consolidating real estate subsidiaries.*

one more from MEED:

Dubai Holding could consolidate its real estate subsidiaries in a bid to streamline its operations, cut costs and restart development at its stalled projects.

The government-controlled group has several real estate companies that could be affected by any consolidation, including three of the emirate's largest developers: Dubai Properties, Sama Dubai and Tatweer.

"The companies are too big to merge them right away," says one senior official at Dubai Holding. "But on the operations side, it does make sense to merge, so let us see how we can leverage off that."

Each of the three main developers is run by an executive chairman: Hashim al-Dabal at Dubai Properties, Farhan Faraidooni at Sama Dubai and Saeed al-Muntafiq at Tatweer.

It is not yet clear who would lead the new consolidated entity if all three were merged.

The companies in turn have their own subsidiaries, such as Bawadi, Liwan and Mizin, which are also developing their own projects.

Another Dubai Holding executive tells MEED that one option is to consolidate the operations of the real estate firms in a single resource centre, which would cover sales and marketing, finance and treasury, commercial and contracts work, business systems, and human resources.

The developer companies previously received direct funding from the parent company, which, according to sources working on Dubai Holding's projects, was often spent by corporate offices rather than on projects. The proposed consolidation would mean this spending could be controlled by the centralised resource centre.

A restructuring of this kind could help Dubai Holding move ahead with its projects in a more efficient way once confidence returns to the market.

Individual projects could be run as separate business units that would be able to use a combination of equity from the centralised parent company, with project finance secured using the land and the project as collateral.


----------



## IISinbadII

*Gulf jobs should go to Arabs, says Saudi prince
*

ABU DHABI, Feb 2: Gulf Arab states, where foreigners make up half the workforce, should give employment preference to their citizens over expatriate labour, a prominent member of the Saudi royal family said on Monday.

“We should review our economic policies in a serious manner to build national economies that benefit their people and not the millions of foreign workers,” Prince Turki al-Faisal bin Abdulaziz said at a conference on human resources in Abu Dhabi.Prince Turki is chairman of the King Faisal Centre for Research and Islamic Studies. He is a former ambassador to Washington and London and before that spent more than 25 years as the head of Saudi Arabia’s intelligence service.

“It’s not understandable that there be one unemployed Gulf national in countries that receive millions of foreign workers,” he said.

The six countries of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) have witnessed six-years of growth fuelled by a surge in the price of oil — their main source of income — triggering a construction and services industries boom that required millions of foreign workers.

The GCC comprises Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

Foreign unskilled workers, mainly from southeast Asia, and skilled labour make up an average of 50 per cent of the workforce in the Gulf Arab region, reaching as high as 92 per cent in the United Arab Emirates and Qatar and 60 per cent in Saudi Arabia, according to Baqer al-Najjar, professor of sociology at the University of Bahrain.

*Prince Turki warned that the current policy of bringing in foreign labour threatened the demographic make-up of the region.

“If these policies continue, we will no doubt become minorities in our countries*,” he said.

“*We, especially in Gulf Arab countries, are in one of the most dangerous regions. We suffer and will suffer from security, economic, social, cultural, and demographic problems if we do not tackle the situation*,” he said. He did not specify what policies the governments should carry out.

The Arab world’s two biggest economies — Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates — along with the remaining Gulf countries have suffered from the global economic downturn as oil prices have lost more than $100 since reaching an all-time peak of $147 in July, 2008.

Mega real estate projects have been put on hold or cancelled altogether, forcing many expatriates workers to leave the region after losing their jobs.—AFP


----------



## Opus 2009

luluprovence said:


> Rent-to-own Properties
> 
> Would anyone happen to know of rent-to-own properties in the market please and whether it makes good investment sense?
> 
> Please let me know.
> Thank you,
> Lulu
> :horse::drunk:


^^
Both Emaar and Union Properties have rent to own schemes. I don't see a huge benefit as though the rents are reasonable, the price is set at the pre crisis levels. If markets pick up during the option period, then there is obviously a benefit.


----------



## desertmaster

*Dubai’s Second Airport, World’s Biggest, Faces Delay (Update1)*

Dubai’s Second Airport, World’s Biggest, Faces Delay (Update1) 
By Arif Sharif

Feb. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Dubai pushed back the opening of the first phase of the world’s biggest airport because of delays in construction, the head of Dubai Airports said.

Dubai World Central will open in 2010 instead of this year due to “a number of factors mostly relating to the readiness of infrastructure and the capability of Dubai International to more than cope with existing traffic,” Dubai Airports Chief Executive Officer Paul Griffiths said in a phone interview today........

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aGwvoH1aMoJg


----------



## samiissa

Dear All,

I saw some postings about a petition, did anything progress on that? Also, is there a way we can all create an e-mail list of all the investors in this project so we can be in close communication and come up with common solutions?


----------



## Raza01

Hi All,

I have heard from many sources that they are allowing visas for property buyers within 10 days. Does anybody here have any update or this is just a rumors.


----------



## dubaimarina2008

Raza01 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have heard from many sources that they are allowing visas for property buyers within 10 days. Does anybody here have any update or this is just a rumors.


That sounds very good.


----------



## smussuw

What do u think of this one?

Greens Community Family Villa
Price: AED 3,000,000
Bedrooms: 5
Bathrooms: 5
Size: 5900.00 SqFt
Developer: Union Properties
Price/SqFt: AED 508.47
40% paid - 60% due on handover ( April 09)


----------



## Richard Head

ibn frederick said:


> i know this is a dubai forum but what do you guys think the future holds for ajman?????


I think the future will see a seperate forum area being set up for Ajman stuff with lots of useful and informative threads appearing in exactly the right place.

oh, wait a minute...................................


----------



## Imre

malec said:


> Where did you hear this? And if they are then who is still building the dubai tower in Doha.


my friend told me, he worked with them, 1st of March is the official closing date.

They will not say bankrupt because it doesnt sound good , specially from government company

merging sounds better.


----------



## Wannaberich

Is anything actually selling out there? I get the impression there are almost no buyers.
I truly hate to think how low prices will go.That goes for rental aswell.


Shit.I just realised I posted on page 666.I'm doomed !


----------



## glover

i got a call from an agent about my for sale off-plan apt. she said they only sold 3 apartments in the last three weeks in Dubai Marina. the sense i am getting is that if there is any demand out there for high end properties, it is mostly in Dubai Marina!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

This is because Dubai Marina was underpriced before the crash. Burj Dubai area was overpriced.


----------



## Wannaberich

glover said:


> i got a call from an agent about my for sale off-plan apt. she said they only sold 3 apartments in the last three weeks in Dubai Marina. the sense i am getting is that if there is any demand out there for high end properties, it is mostly in Dubai Marina!



Now thats what I call bad.Maybe we should start a poll as to how far we think prices will fall?
I say 85% from peak.:skull:


----------



## Wannaberich

glover said:


> ^^^ why! it was a small real estate agency! there are hundreds of real estate companies in dubai. if every agency sells few apartments a month in the marina, we will have around a thousand sold in a month!!



Why didnt u say it was a small agent in the first place ? !
Give me a heart attack why dont u !
Ok now I say 80%


----------



## glover

^^^ why! it was a small real estate agency! there are hundreds of real estate companies in dubai. if every agency sells few apartments a month in the marina, we will have around a thousand sold in a month!!


----------



## 69er

I have purchased a unit in Abjar Tower 1.5 years ago. Currently about 40 % of the purchase agreement payment has been made, no construction had yet started and every time the developer who is Khuyool gives me diffrent start dates, the latest one being April 2009.

1) can someone tell me a legal way to end the contract and get my funds back
2) is there a law which states if the builder had not started construction by a ertain date the investor gets its fudns back?


any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

I have no clue what to do at this point.

if anyone can help me it would be greatly appreciated

www.khuyool.com is the builder site


----------



## peacesells

*Downturn displays the flaws in Dubai's legal system*

03 February 2009

Dubai's real estate expansion lifted many investors into a world of unimagined riches as prices vaulted into the stratosphere.
Now, as house values decelerate at an equally frightening speed, the buoyant mood has soured. Small-time investors may be returning keys, but the major speculators face defaults on a frightening scale.

Those who were turning round whole floors of buildings in a day have been caught holding overvalued assets. And when these people lose lots of money, they often call a lawyer.

Anecdotal suggests the rise in legal action in response to the downturn has already begun.

Lawyers tell of legal disputes over land sales and property developments rising as uncertain and ever-shifting real estate regulations finally come in for some rigorous testing.

Then there are the thousands of redundancies across the city: lawyers are reporting a rise in disputes as staff members are shed by cash-strapped companies.

Changes to the legal system have been demanded for decades.

Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, ruler of Dubai, has identified the justice system as deserving particular attention and has called for modernisation.

During the good years, the government could have ushered in root-and-branch reform of the commercial legal codes more easily than today, when tougher choices are likely to be harder because of the economic gloom.

But unless quick action is taken, change could come too late.

Investors are already lining up at police stations to launch complaints against developers and agents they claim have defrauded them out of properties that may not be built.

Property agents, meanwhile, are cashing cheques for second payments on apartments and villas and then launching criminal cases when cheques bounce.

Not honouring cheques, which are used as collateral, has long been a criminal offence in the UAE.

It has often been used as a means to jail business adversaries and creditors can be quick to use this option when trying to recover debts.

The lack of a civil option in resolving such disputes, as well as clear laws on redundancy and personal and corporate bankruptcy, could mean the slow courts system is further jammed this year.

And, with the real estate market still in freefall, the situation is likely to become worse.

It is not as if the police and other investigating departments have spare time on their hands.

Dozens of executives remain behind bars in a prison on the outskirts of Dubai, uncharged for up to a year, over alleged financial wrongdoing at state-backed companies such as Deyaar, the developer, and Dubai Islamic Bank.

In these cases, the authorities have strong evidence of their guilt but they seem unable or unwilling bring the cases to trial.

Insiders claim that overstretched investigating teams could have sought external expertise to help them through the complicated world of corporate fraud.

Other criminal cases have shed an unwanted light on the legal system. Women complain that husbands only have to present the flimsiest of evidence of adultery to seize custody of children.

The fraud cases and apparent gender inequality reflect badly on the country's human rights record, a reputational issue that the federal government is at pains to address.

Questions over the rule of law reflect even more poorly on the emirate's attractiveness to foreign investment.

Dubai won the role of regional business hub as it cut red tape and displayed tolerance to different cultures. That masterstroke has been helped by a relentless commitment to execution: building the region's best infrastructure first.

The emirate's drive to turn itself into a financial centre was founded on the understanding that it would revamp its regulatory system.

As officials chart ways of easing Dubai through the downturn, they are focusing on ensuring the city completes its national infrastructure roads, airports and metros so it can be the first to rebound when the good times come back.

Perhaps now is the time to give equal consideration the legal infrastructure.

By Simeon Kerr

© Financial Times 2009


----------



## amplesou

yes i would be interested in this also !


----------



## peacesells

Not an agent, but know / work with agents. A friend of a friend sold a few units in Ajman the other week. An agent I met the other day sold 2 studios in International City for 275k each. If the price is right, it will sell.


----------



## Wannaberich

Peacesells you're an agent arent u? is anything selling?


----------



## peacesells

69er said:


> I
> 1) can someone tell me a legal way to end the contract and get my funds back
> 2) is there a law which states if the builder had not started construction by a ertain date the investor gets its fudns back?


1) Depends on what your contract says. Usually, the only legal way to get your money back is to either a) ask for it and hope they will return it, b) sell it to someone else or c) wait for the last date by which the project is supposed to be completed to pass then submit them a termination notice - they should refund then, provided they have funds and play 'nice'. 

2) No law exists as of now, although there is a draft that says something similar being looked at. Currently, if the project's construction is not started, you are not obliged to pay more than 20%.


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> An agent I met the other day sold 2 studios in International City for 275k each. If the price is right, it will sell.


If the price is right?Errr you mean if the owner is willing to give it away.
:eek2:


----------



## Jeroen45

Tom_Green said:


> So there is confidence in...... in which country? There is a reason why Dubai is in that situation.
> 
> Where should a person invest? 50% of the value of all shares have been lost. We have a world crisis. Not only a middle east crisis.


Gold went up in 2008 and is up also in early 2009.


----------



## abf

Wannaberich said:


> Now thats what I call bad.Maybe we should start a poll as to how far we think prices will fall?
> I say 85% from peak.:skull:


If there are no buyers there is no bottom - distressed sellers would have to sell at whatever the offer is or hold


----------



## bizzybonita

*OFF TOPIC*

*Bankruptcy lawyers make $19 a Minute while the world goes bankrupt *

While the rest of the world is going bankrupt, the bankruptcy lawyers are only getting richer. Professionals’ fees in bankruptcy cases are growing at four times the rate of inflation. Studies reveal that the total fees paid for lawyers, accountants and other professionals in bankruptcies from 1998 to 2007 doubled, while the consumer price index rose about 25 percent. It is almost like a competition among various firms to set a record for charging the highest fees per hour! Chicago-based Sidley Austin LLP and New York’s Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP also requested hourly rates exceeding $1,000 in the past two months in separate bankruptcy cases. The lawyers are definitely regarded as saviors during this time of financial crisis that many companies are facing. But their exorbitant fees definitely need to be curbed. According to Stephen Lubben, a professor at Seton Hall University School of Law in Newark, New Jersey, bankruptcy fees may eventually be challenged on grounds that lawyers are mostly liquidating companies instead of restructuring them.

At this rate, only lawyers will emerge as victors over the ongoing recession.


----------



## The P of T

count me in too.


----------



## dubaimarina2008

*Dubai rents down*

Bad news for homeowners as rents on villas and apartments in Dubai *fall 40%* in two months…

http://www.timeoutdubai.com/knowledge/news/6355-dubai-rents-down


----------



## Naz UK

Well, if a few villa owners in Dubai die of starvation 'coz they didn't receive 650,000Dhs in one cheque, then the world will be a better place because of it.

For Docc: Dubai has one of the most liberal governments of any Muslim nation.


----------



## nri-hotels

Watch and Weep !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67dYh4UQmUE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk9Sbpnkd-4


----------



## nri-hotels

*RENT : the solution to Dubai property woes*

Developers/Govt should go all out to rent all unoccupied finished properties as soon as possible. Its better to have someone live in them at cheaper rents, rather than have the properties collect cobwebs and sand.


----------



## malec

Wannaberich said:


> Now thats what I call bad.Maybe we should start a poll as to how far we think prices will fall?
> I say 85% from peak.:skull:


I always thought about 70% before the fell as well. Now that was just a guess since I don't know anything about this stuff but when prices went to such ridiculous highs so quickly it was clear they had to come back, especially looking at the build quality and seeing what you could get in the south of France, etc. 

By the way I'm quite proud of what I predicted for the supertalls in October when I put down their chances of being built in this list. :cheers:
You can see I wouldn't have thought government owned companies would have so much trouble but apart from that I think it's pretty accurate at the moment.

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/9035/40072174ig7.jpg


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Now thats what I call bad.Maybe we should start a poll as to how far we think prices will fall?
> I say 85% from peak.:skull:


I'll have a pint of whatever you were on when you wrote that :cheers:

Three things will prevent the drop from going anything like that low:

1) Fundamental value, compared to similar properties worldwide
2) Simple supply and demand economics
3) tax free living and quality of life

Example - you believe a signature villa on Palm will drop from 30 mill to 4.5, when 6 years ago many hundreds of people were prepared to pay a bit more than that based on a concept drawing, before a single rock was dropped in the water. I challenge you to find any comparable property in the world half an hours drive from a major city for less than 3 times that amount - fundamental value.

Example 2 - I think you're a Brit (apologies if i'm wrong). Even after the recent plummet of exchange rates, you seriously think a nice spacious 2 bed apartment in the marina with sea views will drop to 80k sterling. Again - fundamental value says not a hope in hell. 

On supply and demand, sure demand will drop fairly quickly in the short term, then it will level off and gradually start to return as the global recession ends and the government here gets its act together on legislation and visas. Meanwhile on supply, there will be no new product launches for several years, so once everything currently under construction is delivered (and some if it might not make it that far) then there will be no new supply for maybe 3-5 years.

On quality of life - yeah the traffic's bad etc etc, as i've said before try spending 3 hours of your day on the London Underground and paying 40% of your income for the priviledge.

For all of those reasons, I believe we are close to the bottom already, and that eventual bottom will be between 40 - 60% of peak, depending on location and other factors.

As usual i'm talking about completed or n/c propoerty. If your 85% referes to off plan stuff that's barely started yet, then I agree that it's bad..........really bad. But nobody will ever sell at 85% below peak, they will just default and projects will be canned. Already happening.


----------



## nri-hotels

The people who say that "the best investment in the world is property because it always goes up", are likely the ones who have already bought either long ago or at cheap prices.

I am waiting for cheap prices.


----------



## V Kapoor

_Originally Posted by peacesells 
An agent I met the other day sold 2 studios in International City for 275k each. If the price is right, it will sell._

That is very close to my original purchase price in 2005hno:


----------



## peacesells

Richard Head said:


> I'll have a pint of whatever you were on when you wrote that :cheers:
> 
> Three things will prevent the drop from going anything like that low:
> 
> 1) Fundamental value, compared to similar properties worldwide
> 2) Simple supply and demand economics
> 3) tax free living and quality of life
> 
> Example - you believe a signature villa on Palm will drop from 30 mill to 4.5, when 6 years ago many hundreds of people were prepared to pay a bit more than that based on a concept drawing, before a single rock was dropped in the water. I challenge you to find any comparable property in the world half an hours drive from a major city for less than 3 times that amount - fundamental value.
> 
> Example 2 - I think you're a Brit (apologies if i'm wrong). Even after the recent plummet of exchange rates, you seriously think a nice spacious 2 bed apartment in the marina with sea views will drop to 80k sterling. Again - fundamental value says not a hope in hell.
> 
> On supply and demand, sure demand will drop fairly quickly in the short term, then it will level off and gradually start to return as the global recession ends and the government here gets its act together on legislation and visas. Meanwhile on supply, there will be no new product launches for several years, so once everything currently under construction is delivered (and some if it might not make it that far) then there will be no new supply for maybe 3-5 years.
> 
> On quality of life - yeah the traffic's bad etc etc, as i've said before try spending 3 hours of your day on the London Underground and paying 40% of your income for the priviledge.
> 
> For all of those reasons, I believe we are close to the bottom already, and that eventual bottom will be between 40 - 60% of peak, depending on location and other factors.
> 
> As usual i'm talking about completed or n/c propoerty. If your 85% referes to off plan stuff that's barely started yet, then I agree that it's bad..........really bad. But nobody will ever sell at 85% below peak, they will just default and projects will be canned. Already happening.


Your assumption that Dubai property won't fall beyond 40-60% is based on the assumption the property in other parts of the world that 'compete' with Dubai has already hit rock bottom and won't go down below those levels or will fall to a certain level. I don't think that a) property around the world has stopped falling in value and b) it is time to try and predict where the end will be. Just some anecdotal evidence - a couple of potential clients from Moscow came by the office yesterday and basically didn't buy because they felt that they could get a better deal now in Moscow (out of all places, prices there are still falling) than in Dubai and will wait for prices to drop even more. I had another guy come in with an off-plan project in Cayman Islands - beach front villas etc etc - with 400 dhs psft launch prices!


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> If the price is right?Errr you mean if the owner is willing to give it away.
> :eek2:





> That is very close to my original purchase price in 2005


This is a guy I don't really know telling me, so I can't say for certain if this is true or not but I wouldn't be surprised.


----------



## Imre

lot of Emaar units for sale , from the expatriates.com


Date: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 

Category: Real Estate For Sale 

Region: Dubai 

Description: Marina Promenade,Dubai Marina 25 units for sale 

15 1 bed for 1.1-1.2 m dhs
10 2 br for 1.6-1.8 m dhs

Paloma, Aurora,Shemara

high floors , marina and sea view

Park Island 

1 bed for 900.000 dhs ( 18 units, high floor)
2 bed for 1.3 m ( 7 ubits, low floor)


Marina Quays

1 bed (16 units) low flors , 860.000 Dhs

.............

Date: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 

Category: Real Estate For Sale 

Region: Dubai 

Description: Dubai Marina 
Marina Crown

1 bedroom apartment

Selling Price: 870,000 AED
................

Description: 
Amwaj JBR

1 bed apt, 
Size: 1057 sq ft 

SP: AED 1.2 M

....


----------



## laidback74

I have to say I back what Richard_Head is saying, if from a different point of view. I have to ask myself, once all surviving projects are completed (even if it took 10 yrs), will there be any other city on earth like Dubai?

I'm mainly looking at Dubai from a tourism point of view. As such, any city trying to attract tourists has to establish itself as a brand. Paris, Monaco, New York, Kuala Lumpur, Tokyo, etc., there's something that distinguishes them from competing cities within their immediate surroundings (within the country or the region). More than the beaches, the good weather or the safety, Dubai's trying to establish itself ahead of the competition (both current and future) by pouring billions into developing incredibly opulent tourist attractions that its rivals would have great difficulty replicating without the same monetary resources and the vision to put it all in place. 

It's been established that there's always a place in every region for multiple glamour capitals (Vegas in the U.S, Cannes or Monaco in Europe, etc.). With the Palm, the Atlantis, the Hydropolis, the Burj Dubai, Sports City, Dubai Land, etc., can you see any other city in the Middle East replicating this in the next 20 yrs? 

Obviously, I'm not saying this means Dubai property can match the prices of Monaco property in the long term. That depends on multiple factors such as GDP per capita, supply vs. demand, regional stability, etc. But I can't help but see a very clear silver lining for Dubai in the long term based on what I've said above. 

Would anyone like to support or counter this argument?


----------



## Imre

any idea which tower is this one ? 


Description: Tower for sale in JBR 

direct from the owner 

Location: Jumeirah Beach Residence (facing the sea) 
*************************************************** 
Total plot area: 36,000 sq ft 
*************************************************** 
Retail space area: 6,270 sq ft 
*************************************************** 
Total apartments area: 172, 573 sq ft 
*************************************************** 
Status: freehold & ready to delivery 
*************************************************** 
Elevation: basement + G + 27 floors 
*************************************************** 
Total No. of units: 96 apartments + 4 lofts + 2 penthouses 
*************************************************** 
Details of units: 
30 apartment's one bedroom 
32 apartment's two bedrooms 
30 apartment's three bedroom 
4 apartment's four bedrooms 
4 loft apartments 
2 penthouses 
*************************************************** 
Car parking: 158 car parking 
*************************************************** 
Facilities: Garden, Health club, Swimming pool, 4 lifts, 
& Full Sea View 
The tower is fully furnished 
*************************************************** 
Selling price: 300 millions + 2% transfer + 2 % commission


----------



## smussuw

V Kapoor said:


> _Originally Posted by peacesells
> An agent I met the other day sold 2 studios in International City for 275k each. If the price is right, it will sell._
> 
> That is very close to my original purchase price in 2005hno:


I'll be interested in buying two studios for 500k


----------



## Arno Salzl

Richard Head said:


> I'll have a pint of whatever you were on when you wrote that :cheers:
> 
> Three things will prevent the drop from going anything like that low:
> 
> 1) Fundamental value, compared to similar properties worldwide
> 2) Simple supply and demand economics
> 3) tax free living and quality of life


For the same reasons, it is totally impossible for Emaar, Union Properties, Arabtec and the others to lose 85% of their market value.

And the problem is: the stock exchange is always ahead of the real economy.


----------



## glover

^^^^ with stocks, its about future earnings. what Richard Head and Laidback74 are saying is that Dubai has already established a unique brand name, an image of a lifestyle, a business culture, and an amazing infrastructure that it can capitalize on for decades to come.


----------



## Imre

dbxdude said:


> Did you get a positive test for ecoli? asking because that is a new hotel and its possible you didnt have ecoli from the sea - i swim in that sea alot and have never been ill, its very hard to catch ecoli from the sea - usually only from stagnenet fresh water - also that sea is packed so if you caught it from the sea there should be hundreds others. With regards to the hotel you stayed at:
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090201/NATIONAL/671900339/1138
> 
> A five-star hotel in Dubai is investigating a possible outbreak of Legionnaires’ disease after the death of a recent guest, the BBC cricket commentator and statistician Bill Frindall.
> 
> Frindall, who was 69, died on Friday after falling ill with the infectious disease after a cricket tour of the UAE a fortnight ago. Two other guests of the hotel also fell ill. Their condition was unknown.
> 
> It is not known where Frindall contracted the disease. The Westin Dubai Mina Seyahi Beach Resort and Marina, where he was staying, is investigating.
> 
> 
> - perhaps you had something else and you were very lucky ??


Press Release
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Lab tests conducted on 24 water samples 

*No Legionella bacteria found in Westin Dubai Resort*


Dubai, 04 February 2009: Lab tests, conducted by Dubai Municipality on 24 water samples taken from air conditioning and water systems of the Westin Dubai Mina Seyahi Beach Resort and Marina proved no existence of Legionella bacteria in the hotel.

Hussain Nasser Lootah, Director General of Dubai Municipality, said the test results proved beyond doubt that any of the hotel's guests did not contract the disease in Dubai. 

"We had taken 24 water samples from different locations at the hotel and all of them tested negative. The hotel had, in fact, conducted its routine tests three times since it opened its doors in May 2008," said Mr. Lootah. 

He added that Dubai Municipality, being the body responsible for ensuring the hygiene and safety standards at all hotels, hotel apartments and all public premises in Dubai, conducts periodic lab tests on water samples randomly collected from these establishments and enforces a strict hygiene and safety code there. 

Furthermore, he noted, the hotels are required to submit to the Municipality regular reports on internal hygiene and safety checks undertaken by their own specialists. "The Westin Dubai hotel had conducted such tests in May, immediately after its opening, as well as in October and December last year and all of them tested negative," Lootah added. 

Mr. Lootah noted that during last year, the Municipality had conducted 70 inspections in the city's many hotels and obtained 250 water samples for testing for Legionella bacteria, among a lot of other tests. However, no tests proved positive. 

"The Municipality conducts inspections on all hotels, restaurants, and public places in accordance with international standards. During our periodic checks, we also make sure of various hygiene and safety standards in swimming pools, spas, and gyms in addition to enforcement of smoking regulations, among other things," he said.


----------



## glover

if these ads are real, then they won't last long on the market imo. there are a lot of cash buyers waiting on the sideline for opprotunities like these.

it will be worth while to check them out by a simple call to Emaar's sales office.



Imre said:


> lot of Emaar units for sale , from the expatriates.com
> 
> Date: Tuesday, February 03, 2009
> Category: Real Estate For Sale
> Region: Dubai
> Description: Marina Promenade,Dubai Marina 25 units for sale
> 15 1 bed for 1.1-1.2 m dhs
> 10 2 br for 1.6-1.8 m dhs
> Paloma, Aurora,Shemara
> high floors , marina and sea view
> Park Island
> 1 bed for 900.000 dhs ( 18 units, high floor)
> 2 bed for 1.3 m ( 7 ubits, low floor)
> 
> Marina Quays
> 1 bed (16 units) low flors , 860.000 Dhs
> .............
> Date: Tuesday, February 03, 2009
> Category: Real Estate For Sale
> Region: Dubai
> Description: Dubai Marina
> Marina Crown
> 1 bedroom apartment
> Selling Price: 870,000 AED
> ................
> 
> Description:
> Amwaj JBR
> 1 bed apt,
> Size: 1057 sq ft
> SP: AED 1.2 M
> ....


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> I'll have a pint of whatever you were on when you wrote that :cheers:
> 
> Three things will prevent the drop from going anything like that low:
> 
> 1) Fundamental value, compared to similar properties worldwide
> 2) Simple supply and demand economics
> 3) tax free living and quality of life
> 
> Example - you believe a signature villa on Palm will drop from 30 mill to 4.5, when 6 years ago many hundreds of people were prepared to pay a bit more than that based on a concept drawing, before a single rock was dropped in the water. I challenge you to find any comparable property in the world half an hours drive from a major city for less than 3 times that amount - fundamental value.
> 
> Example 2 - I think you're a Brit (apologies if i'm wrong). Even after the recent plummet of exchange rates, you seriously think a nice spacious 2 bed apartment in the marina with sea views will drop to 80k sterling. Again - fundamental value says not a hope in hell.
> 
> On supply and demand, sure demand will drop fairly quickly in the short term, then it will level off and gradually start to return as the global recession ends and the government here gets its act together on legislation and visas. Meanwhile on supply, there will be no new product launches for several years, so once everything currently under construction is delivered (and some if it might not make it that far) then there will be no new supply for maybe 3-5 years.
> 
> On quality of life - yeah the traffic's bad etc etc, as i've said before try spending 3 hours of your day on the London Underground and paying 40% of your income for the priviledge.
> 
> For all of those reasons, I believe we are close to the bottom already, and that eventual bottom will be between 40 - 60% of peak, depending on location and other factors.
> 
> As usual i'm talking about completed or n/c propoerty. If your 85% referes to off plan stuff that's barely started yet, then I agree that it's bad..........really bad. But nobody will ever sell at 85% below peak, they will just default and projects will be canned. Already happening.



Sorry,wrote that when I was feeling slightly pessimistic.I think I did upgrade the 85% to 80%.What do I know anyway.
The way I see it Dubai is unique.A city built on speculation and possibly the majority of investors coming from overseas?The way prices shot up has that happened anywhere in the world before?4 x,5x or even 6 x the purchase price in a few short years?wow ! If they can shoot up fast then they can collapse fast aswell?
As I said before,probably just about every single project out there has at least 1 or 2 distress sellers.These people drag the prices down for us all.
I have a completed 1 bed unit where someone is selling 2 at 10% premium !
Untill they are out of the system selling mine for a half decent premium is going to be impossible.How many others are in the same boat.
So put these distress sellers together with the fact banks arent lending( a huge fact),so whos buying?and when there are buyers they want it for nothing.
I hope things improve.Even if prices stabilise where they are I'll take that.
However,theres only doom and gloom I'm reading at the moment so I'm not feeling too positive at the moment.


----------



## dlnash

glover said:


> if these ads are real, then they won't last long on the market imo. there are a lot of cash buyers waiting on the sideline for opprotunities like these.
> 
> it will be worth while to check them out by a simple call to Emaar's sales office.


These units are for sale in the secondary market not directly from Emaar.. if you call Emaar asking for units in Dubai Marina, they will say they are sold out :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## V Kapoor

peacesells said:


> This is a guy I don't really know telling me, so I can't say for certain if this is true or not but I wouldn't be surprised.


No Sir, 
I dint tell you that, I only mentioned that this (275K for a studio) is quite close to the purchase price of my studio in IC which I bought in 2005. I have not sold it.


----------



## DubaiExpat

*International City Launch Prices*

Launch Price:

Studio - 205 - 235 K

1 B/R - 305 - 350 K

Tamweel Mortgage Special Promotion in 2006:

Studio - 299 K

1 B/R - 409 K


----------



## Richard Head

Arno Salzl said:


> For the same reasons, it is totally impossible for Emaar, Union Properties, Arabtec and the others to lose 85% of their market value.
> 
> And the problem is: the stock exchange is always ahead of the real economy.


Property values do not move as rapidly or to such extremes as stocks. Some UK bank shares dropped 50 - 70% in a day recently, when did property ever do that? Not a valid comparison at all.


----------



## V Kapoor

glover said:


> really!! think of London, New York, Monaco and other places without inflows of foreign money! what do you think will happen to the real estate market then! we are in a global economy where demand anywhere is never driven solely by local money!


I don't disagree with you, but it is a comparison of the level, nature and extent of dependence. China too is badly hit, because their proportion of exports in GDP had risen sharply over the years, demand for which has now evaporated in the backdrop of the world crisis. India is a little less hurt, comparatively. Most of the expat money in UAE is hot money and expats will start moving it home if conditions deteriorate. 

Of course Dubai and UAE have immense strength of a backing of the Sovereign Wealth that they have. But its also a question of USING that wealth domestically to spur the economy in difficult times, rather than investing it abroad and in the west.


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> You know, the whole 'expats will leave and never come back' thing is overrated. A friend of mine, recently made redundant by our favorite developer (the guys who like to make islands in shape of trees), has gone back home but is ready to come back the minute something interesting comes up. So many will leave, but many of those will be coming back the minute things get going again.


I agree that ex-pats will come back once jobs start appearing again.
However ex-pats can rent and dont need to buy.The question is will investors come back.
Maybe alot depends on what happens during this year.If prices truly crash,many developers go bust and people lose money,plus the goverment appears to do nothing,then where will be the confidence for 
these investors to return.


----------



## Naz UK

You can bet your left butt cheek the government will do nothing. They are far more interesting in saving their own arses and have much bigger problems to worry about than the "small" investors who they happily allowed to prop up their economy for the past 6 years.

Dubai has some of the best golf courses in the world.

If i've learnt anything about governments, its that they will always put themselves before their people. Dubai is no different to any other government.


----------



## smussuw

^^ I think u should say :lol:

Docc: Dubai has some of the best golf courses in the world.


----------



## V Kapoor

Naz UK said:


> If i've learnt anything about governments, its that they will always put themselves before their people. Dubai is no different to any other government.


Specially when you dont have to get elected!


----------



## Wannaberich

Trouble is the goverment dont have the luxury of being able to ignore investors.
Its their money they need to help Dubai grow and prosper.Remember,this is all about the oil running out and how they need to replace this income.
Do nothing and why will investors come back?By investors I also mean businessmen,those looking to open leisure facilities,theme parks,hotels,you name it.


----------



## smussuw

V Kapoor said:


> Specially when you dont have to get elected!


We wouldn't have had a boom/crisis in the first place if we had elected ones


----------



## lovedubai

Good news from AMEinfo


Government of Abu Dhabi to inject Dhs16bn Tier I capital into Abu Dhabi financial institutions

The Government of Abu Dhabi has decided to implement an action plan under which it will inject additional capital into the following Abu Dhabi financial institutions: Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank, Abu Dhabi Islamic Bank, First Gulf Bank, National Bank of Abu Dhabi and Union National Bank.
Given current global economic conditions, the Government believes that this strategic initiative is an appropriate and proactive response to ensure that the strong confidence in Abu Dhabi's financial institutions is further enhanced. 

His Excellency Hamad Al Hurr Al Suwaidi, Member of Executive Council and Undersecretary of the Abu Dhabi Department of Finance, added: 

'The Government views this capital injection into the banking system as an important step to allow Abu Dhabi financial institutions to remain strong and well-capitalised compared to international peers, and fulfil their role in achieving the Government's vision for the Abu Dhabi economy.'


This initiative by the Government also demonstrates the foresight and commitment of the leadership in maintaining the strength and economic growth of the Emirate of Abu Dhabi through the current global climate, and implementing the bold vision of His Highness Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan, President of the UAE, Ruler of Abu Dhabi Emirate and His Highness Shiekh Mohammed Bin Zayed Al Nayhyan, Abu Dhabi Crown Prince and Deputy Supreme Commander of the UAE's Armed Forces, for the prosperity of the Emirate of Abu Dhabi. 

Under this initiative, the Government of Abu Dhabi will subscribe for Tier I capital notes (the 'Notes') issued by each of the above financial institutions, with a total aggregate principal amount of Dhs16bn. The Notes will be non-voting, non-cumulative perpetual securities, and will be callable subject to certain conditions. 

J.P. Morgan acted as structurer and arranger of the Notes, with Clifford Chance providing legal advice to the Government of Abu Dhabi and J.P. Morgan.


----------



## docc

smussuw said:


> ^^ I think u should say :lol:
> 
> Docc: Dubai has some of the best golf courses in the world.


Thanks for reminding him. I was actually going to do that myself. I am surprised he has so many nice things to say about Dubai :cheers:


----------



## smussuw

Compare :shifty:

January 2008 










January 2009


----------



## smussuw

It is interesting that 86 transactions in 2008 worth more than the 130 transactions in 2009 in the Palm :nuts:


----------



## gerald.d

smussuw said:


> It is interesting that 86 transactions in 2008 worth more than the 130 transactions in 2009 in the Palm :nuts:


Probably a big change in the mix of villas:apartments?


----------



## Mistermark

smussuw said:


> We wouldn't have had a boom/crisis in the first place if we had elected ones


I agree, or at least the economy would have been better managed to avoid unsustainable or unpalatable extremes.

Someone else here said politicans and rulers always look after themselves ahead of the people. It's probably true. But in a democracy, they know that their seats on the gravy train can be taken away from them if they make a mess of things. So personal self interest ensures they do a reasonable job.

Democracy = a rubbish way of making decisions, but a great way of ensuring our leaders are accountable.


----------



## gerald.d

Just been crunching a few numbers on the above.

Would I be correct in assuming that a single transaction could be for a property (i.e flat/villa), an entire building (apartment block/warehouse), or even just a plot of land?

Anyway.

Jan 2008 - 417 transactions. 4.8B Dhms, average of 11.7M Dhms/transaction

Jan 2009 - 243 transactions. 1.7B Dhms, average of 6.70M Dhms/transaction

Hard to glean much from the numbers really, as there's no way of knowing the mix of property/land types from year to year.

Here's an odd one that demonstrates that we can't really infer much from this data -

Emirates Hills Second.
Average transaction value 2008 - 39M Dhms
Average transaction value 2009 - 4.7M Dhms

I doubt very much property there has decreased in value by 88% over the last year!


----------



## IISinbadII

We need "Dubai, my second home" program NOW!!!! :bash:


----------



## smussuw

Mistermark said:


> I agree, or at least the economy would have been better managed to avoid unsustainable or unpalatable extremes.
> 
> Someone else here said politicans and rulers always look after themselves ahead of the people. It's probably true. But in a democracy, they know that their seats on the gravy train can be taken away from them if they make a mess of things. So personal self interest ensures they do a reasonable job.
> 
> Democracy = a rubbish way of making decisions, but a great way of ensuring our leaders are accountable.


My beef here is that they shouldn't use democracy in the argument now that we have a crisis when the boom was solely founded by those unelected leaders. They cannot have the cake and eat them too !


----------



## gerald.d

*Residential property and retail rental prices in Dubai unsustainable*

http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/residential-retail-rental-dubai-200902042545.html



> Lower demand and oversupply is leading to plunging rents in both the residential and retail property markets in Dubai.
> 
> The cost of renting in Dubai has fallen by up to a third in the last two months, according to figures from real estate agents and retail leasing costs are expected to soar according to a new report.
> 
> The drop in residential rents is due to homeowners flooding the leasing market amid a lack of buyer demand. Rents for villas and apartments have plunged up to 33% in some of the city's most prestigious locations including downtown Burj Dubai and the Palm Jumeirah.
> 
> Nehad Abdelhamit, leasing consultant for broker Dubai Waterfront Properties said annual rents for two-bedroom villas in the Springs had seen a 32% drop.
> 
> On the man-made island, the Palm Jumeirah, Abdelhamit said some of the biggest seven-bedroom signature villas were now 33% cheaper to rent.
> 
> 'Most of the properties are not selling, so they are renting them instead to secure an income. People have got mortgages to pay,' she said.
> 
> Louise Pitt, director of leasing at broker Landmark Properties also said two-bedroom villas in the Springs have come down in the last six weeks, with the same sized properties in the Meadows seeing similar falls.
> 
> Farida Khan, a leasing consultant also at Dubai Waterfront Properties said two-bedroom apartments at developer Emaar's flagship Burj Dubai project had tumbled in price. 'There is so much stock available and much less demand,' she said.
> 
> In the retail sector oversupply of shopping mall space is set to force Dubai leasing rates down, according to a new report.
> 
> Over the next two years retail space in Dubai is expected to increase by 50% to over three million square metres, which may not be sustainable, particularly in today's gloomy economic climate, according to a Better Homes review of commercial space in the emirate.


----------



## Richard Head

glover said:


> really!! think of London, New York, Monaco and other places without inflows of foreign money! what do you think will happen to the real estate market then! we are in a global economy where demand anywhere is never driven solely by local money!


^^ This.


I have a studio in South of France, on the border of Monaco. It's not actually IN Monaco, so doesn't benefit from tax free status, which cuts its value dramatically (in relative terms). It's literally 50m over the border into France, still an easy walk from Casino Square. It's 440 sq ft. It wouldn't make a decent bathroom in Dubai. If I dangle off the balcony by my toes with a big periscope, it has a sea view. It's worth almost AED 1.75 million, post-crash. Fundamental value. Am I boring anyone yet?

London - If all the russians left, prices would drop in half overnight

Moscow - errrrrr......see above. Anyone who moves from Moscow to London becasue they're fed up of freezing their tits off, is REALLY going to like Dubai. The economy will change over short periods of time, the climate or the tax free situation will not.

How much more evidence do you people need to support the case for fundamental value?


----------



## Wannaberich

Are we still comparing Dubai with London,New York and Monaco.Why?


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Are we still comparing Dubai with London,New York and Monaco.Why?


Dude, if you can't see the obvious reasons why Dubai compares well, and in many cases favourably with these 3 places, then I ain't going to waste time enlightening you. Can only assume you haven't spent much time in any of them.


----------



## AppleMac

gerald.d said:


> No-one in their right mind would invest in Dubai based on the merits of Abu Dhabi.
> 
> If they wanted what Abu Dhabi had to offer, they'd invest there.


You would be surprised how many people work in AD but choose to live in Dubai and commute.

Lets face it they are not that far apart, it's a bit like living in Surrey and commuting to London in fact Dubai to AD doesn't take as long.


----------



## Philippa C

Yes a lot of people commute. Rents in Abu Dhabi have been higher than Dubaiso it's cheaper to have a driver if need be and commute.


----------



## AppleMac

Wannaberich said:


> Tax free (yes but you still have to pay for healthcare,schools etc unless you're lucky)
> Nice beaches (not the best even without the pollution)
> Regional financial hub (on a par with Lon,NY,Moscow?)
> Lotsa Ruskies want to live there (Errr,and?)
> Massive amounts of liquidity (yeah, money laundering, but whatever)
> (really?even now?)
> Oil (for a few more years)
> Awesome nightlife (Give me Buddha Bar anytime but how many clubs,bars and restuarants does this place have in comparison?)
> Not freezing your tits off so much (but its great for skin cancer when it hits 50)
> Crime free (relatively) (this one stands out)
> 
> How about this
> London and NY
> Thousands of bars/clubs/restaurants
> Great Theatre
> Plenty of Museums/Culture
> Great organisation(you know how crap the Emiratis are)
> Mature property market
> Financial Capitals
> Great for concerts/gigs etc
> Huge sporting events
> Great transport system(in comp to Dubai)



If you are comparing it with London (which I left to come here) then make sure your comparisons are valid.

You really need private health care in London (and certainly New York) as the state system is not that reliable.

The beaches (even if sometimes polluted) are better than London or NY

Culture - how often do you actually go to all these Theatres, Museums etc?

Mature property market that still has regular crashes 

Transport in London is OK but very expensive - but Dubai is getting there - they have only been going at it for 5 years - some of the trains in London were built before the UAE became a country.

London and NY are very expensive places to live - you need a very good salary to ba able to live a comfortable life and afford to go to all these cultural events.

Dont get me wrong, I like London and New York but each place has its pros and cons - whether the pros outweigh the cons in each place is up to the individual.


----------



## Philippa C

Imre said:


> new logo
> 
> [The new logo depicts a palm tree, one half in traditional style reflecting the national heritage of the emirate and the other side made up of green squares, reflecting the technological advances.
> 
> A red circle around the logo reflects the regulative framework, especially law Nos 13 and 14, as a sign of investor protection.
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10282198.html


We've got to give them credit for postive thinking You know with such a positive outlook they might just pull us out of this. It's been shown that optimists live longer, are healthier, happier, sell more etc lots of reasearch and books by Dr Martin Seligman


----------



## 234sale

Seems like a 2009 rental index is being released by Rera.
This shall replace the one previously issued.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/544209-tenants-face-big-rent-hike-despite-2009-freeze---experts


----------



## desertmaster

Philippa C said:


> There is mention in that article that one option is to let either or both companies go bankrupt. What happens to those who have mortgages with Tamweel or Amlak? Will people have to pay the developer directly? What about projects that are being funded by them? Tamweel was the major lender on a number of incomplete projects - Jumeirah Heights, Victory Heights, The Villa? I guess the ones that are almost complete will be finished off and others will be put on hold.
> 
> Completed properties are looking more and more attractive.


it would be really intresting to know why they both will go down .......who are the defaulters ???? whom did they finance ???? My guess they financed themselves !!!!!! they aquired a lot of property in anticipation of making a quick buck (flipping ). by doing that they created a shortage and fuelled the boom !!!!! now they are doomed !!!!!!


----------



## Richard Head

234sale said:


> Seems like a 2009 rental index is being released by Rera.
> This shall replace the one previously issued.
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/544209-tenants-face-big-rent-hike-despite-2009-freeze---experts


Nope......looks exactly the same to me.


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## desertmaster

*SWFs, bonds can inject liquidity*

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20090205045717/Stitch In Time


Can we not be optimistic that the economic situation will improve in a short period of time?
I am optimistic the crisis will teach us many lessons. In the past, we did not have the opportunity to revise our work and the crisis has given us the chance to do that. At the banking and economic level, we can restructure in a better way. I think we have reached the bottom in this crisis. Having said that, the crisis might continue throughout the current year and into the beginning of the next. Then the reversion will come.


----------



## Maha

V Kapoor said:


> _"UAE gifts power plant to Pakistan
> By Ashfaq Ahmed Chief Reporter
> Published: February 04, 2009, 23:15" in GN_
> 
> What about AJMAN?!


:lol:

I would agree, but then Ajman does not really have any land to put the plant on!


----------



## jeetha

*CONFIDENCE 'RETURNING TO MARKET'*

Consumer confidence is returning to UK housing market with two-thirds of people thinking 
now is a good time to buy a new home, a survey has found.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/83396/Confidence-returning-to-market-


----------



## AltinD

Maha said:


> :lol:
> 
> I would agree, but then Ajman does not really have any land to put the plant on!


The real answer would be: Ajman does not have any cultivatable land to plant the plants on.


----------



## kano

jeetha said:


> Consumer confidence is returning to UK housing market with two-thirds of people thinking
> now is a good time to buy a new home, a survey has found.
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/83396/Confidence-returning-to-market-


^^^ only if the banks are prepared to lend !


----------



## Wannaberich

jeetha said:


> Consumer confidence is returning to UK housing market with two-thirds of people thinking
> now is a good time to buy a new home, a survey has found.
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/83396/Confidence-returning-to-market-



UK house prices rise 1.9% !
http://uk.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUKTRE5141NY20090205


----------



## 234sale

Seeing as the Halifax is pretty much owned by the UK Goverment, That would be like Amlak telling us house price increased in Dubai.


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> Seeing as the Halifax is pretty much owned by the UK Goverment, That would be like Amlak telling us house price increased in Dubai.


Our prices are rising and yours are crashing ! Nah Nah Nah !

:baeh3::tongue:


----------



## jeetha

kano said:


> ^^^ only if the banks are prepared to lend !


I was talking to a mortgage broker yesterday and he said that he was Flat Out (busy).

People are out looking for bargains.

To get mortgage, banks still want 40% deposit.:bash:


----------



## Goss

..


----------



## 234sale

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Unemployment-rate.aspx?Symbol=GBP


----------



## tehsin123

*15:28 05Feb09 RTRS-Dubai debt risk widens on Abu Dhabi bank injection*

By Daliah Merzaban 
DUBAI, Feb 5 (Reuters) - The cost of insuring Dubai's debt with credit default swaps increased on Thursday after an Abu Dhabi plan to inject 16 billion dirhams ($4.36 billion) into five of its banks further shook confidence in Dubai, bankers said. 
The government of Gulf oil exporter Abu Dhabi announced on Wednesday it would lend cash to banks in the emirate, including National Bank of Abu Dhabi <NBAD.AD>, via Tier 1 capital notes to bolster confidence as loan defaults mount. [ID:nL4751797] 
The move left markets wondering whether similar steps would take place in Dubai, where banks are struggling as the emirate's once-booming property sector faces a sharp correction that has prompted developers to scale back expansion and cut jobs. 
Five-year Dubai sovereign credit default swaps (CDS) are traded at 775-825 basis points (bps), about 75 bps higher than Wednesday, two bankers in Dubai and Abu Dhabi said. 
CDS contracts protecting debt of government-linked Dubai companies also widened by about 50 bps for Dubai World and about 100 bps for Emirates NBD <ENBD.DU>, the bankers said. 
"This is because of the Abu Dhabi move. The perception that Dubai could default on its loans is increasing in the market," said one banker in Dubai. 
Buying CDS, which is similar to buying insurance, on Abu Dhabi sovereign debt also rose by 20 bps on Thursday to about 305 bps -- a level similar to those in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, they said. 
During a six-year building boom supported by high oil prices in the Gulf, Dubai borrowed heavily to finance often lavish real estate projects, including the world's tallest tower and islands in the shape of palm fronds and the world map. 
A property price correction triggered by the global financial crisis has already witnessed Dubai residential real estate prices fall by at least a quarter as speculators exit the market, according to estimates of some investment banks. 
Facing the risk of greater mortgage and consumer loan defaults, banks are taking massive provisions for bad loans and writing down investment losses. 
In November, Mohamed Alabbar, chairman of the Gulf emirate's top economic body, said Dubai's sovereign debt stood at $10 billion while debts of state-affiliated firms amounted to $70 billion. 
Moody's Investors Service said on Monday it was considering downgrading its debt ratings of six Dubai companies, including Emaar Properties <EMAR.DU> and DP World <DPW.DI> due to the escalating global financial crisis. 
Meanwhile, several Dubai-based contractors told Reuters this week they are owed millions of dirhams by state-linked developers, with some saying they faced bankruptcy. 
Wednesday's Abu Dhabi injection came in addition to 120 billion dirhams of emergency funding facilities launched by the central bank and finance ministry since September to defrost credit markets. 
The one-month Emirates Interbank Offered Rate <AEIBOR=> fell to 3.14375 percent on Thursday from 3.2 percent a day earlier. 
Shares of the Abu Dhabi banks jumped as much as 10 percent on Thursday after the announcement. In Dubai, Emirates NBD, the Gulf's biggest bank by assets, fell 4.79 percent. 
(Reporting by Daliah Merzaban; Editing by Inal Ersan and Andy Bruce) 
(([email protected]; +971 4 391 8301; Reuters Messaging: [email protected])) 
($1=3.673 dirhams)


----------



## mission

I got a new house on only a 10% depoist


----------



## arfie

NajamD said:


> When I was investing in Dubai last year, a few good friends of mine warned me that Dubai' s property market was immature, had heated up too quickly but most importantly that THEY could change their rules whenever and however it suits them, because of the lack of democracy. I obviously did not listen as I had faith in the VISION of Dubai. Now I have had my fingers burnt!! I for one will NEVER come back because I have lost trust and faith!!


Dubai will carry on building its infrastructure and when the world comes out of this economic mess Dubai will be well placed than most to make a good recovery! Infact whats happening in Dubai is probably a good thing and good for the long term! So RELAX!


----------



## Bimcnorth

NajamD said:


> When I was investing in Dubai last year, a few good friends of mine warned me that Dubai' s property market was immature, had heated up too quickly but most importantly that THEY could change their rules whenever and however it suits them, because of the lack of democracy. I obviously did not listen as I had faith in the VISION of Dubai. Now I have had my fingers burnt!! I for one will NEVER come back because I have lost trust and faith!!


So you bought after everyone had made it rich and left during this downturn making sure that you´ll never regain anything...

Erm, you fancy a game of poker? :naughty:


----------



## Wannaberich

arfie said:


> Dubai will carry on building its infrastructure and when the world comes out of this economic mess Dubai will be well placed than most to make a good recovery! Infact whats happening in Dubai is probably a good thing and good for the long term! So RELAX!


Thats the big plus for Dubai.They can use this downturn and the huge reduction in building to catch up with infrastructure.
DEWA simply couldnt keep up before either so maybe now they have a chance.That goes for the phone/internet providers also.Waiting months for these is a joke.
Crap developers will be weeded out.Other developers will finish existing projects instead of being more concerned with starting new ones.
Many unneeded projects will be scraped.
Dubai is maybe the only place out there that will actually benefit and maybe benefit hugely from the credit crunch.
As for all the investors returning,the problem is,many came because of the boom.They saw a chance to make alot of money and quick.As its unlikely this will happen again to the same degree,will as many people come and buy?


----------



## Wannaberich

Piers Morgan on Monaco tonight.Interesting programme.All about the bling.Big yachts,flash cars,expensive properties (1.5m euros for a small 1 bed),even a section of building on reclaimed land.
Difference is western journalists dont hate this place yet Dubai they do.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...n-No-Piers-Morgan--incredible-city-Dubai.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> As for all the investors returning,the problem is,many came because of the boom.They saw a chance to make alot of money and quick.As its unlikely this will happen again to the same degree,will as many people come and buy?


The 1000s that left their cars at the airport and fled will not be back again, thats for sure. They will face arrest. Shame the leaders did not allow them to stay for a while to find work or find a way for them to pay back the debts easily without having to go to prison etc.


----------



## bizzybonita

الهنود أولاً بين مالكي الفلل.. والبريطانيون في مقدمة أصحاب الشقق السكنية 
٪86 من مُلاك الأراضي في دبي مواطنون












أكدت دائرة الأراضي والأملاك في دبي أن الإماراتيين احتلوا المركز الأول في قائمة مالكي الأراضي في دبي، حتى نهاية العام الماضي، بنسبة تصل إلى 86٪ من الملاك البالغ عددهم 48.03 ألف مالك، بينما جاء الهنود في المرتبة الثانية بنسبة 3٪، والبريطانيون في المركز الثالث بنسبة 2٪، وجاءت الجنسيات من الكويت والسعودية وباكستان وسلطنة عمان في المركز الرابع بنسبة 1٪ لكل منها.

وكشفت الدائرة أن الهنود احتلوا المركز الأول في قائمة ملاك الفلل الذين سجلوا في دائرة الأراضي والأملاك حتى نهاية العام الماضي، والبالغ عددهم 4436 مالكاً بنسبة 21٪، بينما جاء البريطانيون في المرتبة الثانية بنسبة 17٪، وجاءت الجنسية الباكستانية في المرتبة الثالثة بنسبة 12٪، وحل الإيرانيون رابعاً بنسبة 10٪، ثم المواطنون الإماراتيون في المرتبة الخامسة بنسبة 6٪، فالجنسية الكندية سادساً بنسبة 3٪، وكل من الجنسية الاسترالية والأميركية والألمانية سابعاً بنسبة 2٪ لكل منها، وجاءت جنسيات ايرلندا ومصر والعراق وجـنوب إفريقيا ولبنان والأردن وروسيا ثامناً بنسبة 1٪ لكل منها».

وقال المدير التنفيذي لمؤسسة التنظيم العقاري التابعة لدائرة الأراضي مروان بن غليطة، إن «عدد الجنسيات التي تمتلك عقارات في دبي قد تكون أكثر من تلك المسجلة لدى الأمم المتحدة». وأضاف أن «الرؤية الأولية للسوق العقارية في دبي هو توفير المناخ الاستثماري الآمن للمستثمر».

المركز الأول

وأفادت إحصائية صادرة عن الدائرة بأن البريطانيون احتلوا المركز الأول بين ملاك الشقق السكنية في دبي، البالغ عددهم 13.77 ألف مالك حتى نهاية العام الماضي بنسبة 20٪، بينما جاء الباكستانيون في المرتبة الثانية بنسبة 14٪، تلاهم الهنود في المرتبة الثالثة بنسبة 14٪، ثم الإيرانيون رابعاً بنسبة 11٪، تلاهم الإماراتيون والروس خامساً بنسبة 4٪ لكل منهما، وجاء في المرتبة السادسة كل من الجنسيتان الأميركية والايرلندية بنسبة 3٪، وحل كل من الجنسية الكندية والكازاخستانية سابعاً بنسبة 2٪، وكل من العراقية والاسترالية والفرنسية والمصرية والسعودية والألمانية في المرتبة الثامنة بنسبة 1٪ لكل منها.

وأطلقت دائرة الأراضي والأملاك في دبي أمس، الشعار الجديد لها الذي يهدف إلى تعزيز رؤيتها في دعم السوق العقارية، واستراتيجياتها الجديدة لإحكام الإطار التنظيمي للقطاع. وقال سمو الشيخ محمد بن خليفة آل مكتوم رئيس دائرة الأراضي والأملاك في دبي «إن الطفرة العقارية تعكس أهم معالم الازدهار الاقتصادي للدولة، حيث تمتلك دبي تجربة عمرانية وعقارية ساهمت في زيادة تنافسها على مستوى العالم».

تصرفات

الى ذلك كشف مسؤولون في الدائرة خلال مؤتمر صحافي عقد أمس في دبي، عن أن العدد التراكمي لتصرفات بيع الأراضي منذ بداية عام 1963 وحتى نهاية عام 2008 بلغت نحو 145.7 ألف مبايعة بقيمة 451 مليار درهم. كما بلغ العدد التراكمي لتصرفات الرهن خلال نفس الفترة نحو 51.7 ألف مبايعة بقيمة 620 مليار درهم.

وأكد المدير العام لدائرة الأراضي والأملاك في دبي سلطان بطي بن مجرن، أن قرار صاحب السمو الشيخ محمد بن راشد آل مكتوم نائب رئيس الدولة رئيس مجلس الوزراء حاكم دبي، بتملك غير المواطنين العقارات في الإمارة، كان له تأثير ملحوظ في نمو السوق العقارية، حيث وصل إجمالي البيع إلى 212 مليار درهم منذ ،1963 لكنه ارتفع بعد القرار في عام 2002 ليسجل 168 مليار درهم.

وأفاد بأنه «خلال الفترة من عام 1963 إلى عام ،2008 فإن الاتجاه الأغلب في التداول على الأراضي كان في مصلحة البيع من حيث العدد، لكن كان في مصلحة الرهن من حيث المساحة والقيمة».

وأضاف أن «الدائرة تشهد مرحلة انتقالية في ما يتعلق بالتوجهات الاستراتيجية التي تتماشى مع خطة دبي الاستراتيجية، وهو ما يحمله الشعار الجديد».

وحققت تصرفات الأراضي في دبي أمس، أكثر من 156.6 مليون درهم، منها مبايعات تجاوزت قيمتها 112.7 مليون درهم في مناطق مختلفة من الإمارة، ورهون بلغ مجموعها 43.8 مليون درهم.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The Dubai Land Department in Dubai, UAE that occupied the first position in the list of owners of land in Dubai, until the end of last year, by up to 86% of the owners of the owner of a 48.03, while the Indians came in second place by 3%, and the British in third place by 2%, and the forces from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the Sultanate of Oman in the fourth by 1% each.

The Trial Chamber found that the Indians occupied the first position in the list of owners of villas who registered in the land and property until the end of last year, and the owner of the 4436 by 21%, while the British came in second place by 17%, and the citizenship of Pakistan in third place by 12%, the resolution of the Iranian IV by 10%, then the citizens in the UAE ranked fifth by 6%, Canadian Nationality VI by 3%, and all of Australian nationality, American, German VII by 2% each, and the nationalities of the Republic of Ireland, Egypt, Iraq, South Africa, Lebanon, Jordan and Russia VIII by 1 % for each of them ».

The Executive Director of Real Estate Management Foundation of the Land Department, Marwan bin Ghalita, the «number of nationalities, which owns real estate in Dubai may be more than those registered with the United Nations». He added that «the initial vision of the real estate market in Dubai is to provide a secure investment climate for investors».

First place

According to statistics issued by the department that the British occupied the first position among the owners of apartments in Dubai, the owner of a 13.77 at the end of last year rose by 20%, while the Pakistani was ranked second by 14%, followed by the Indians in third place by 14%, then IRANIANS IV by 11%, followed by UAE and Russian by V. 4% each, and came in sixth place all of Gansitan American, Irish, or 3%, the resolution of the citizenship of Canada and Kazakhstan VII by 2%, and all of Iraq and the Australian, French, Egyptian, Saudi Arabia, the largest German eighth by 1% each.

The Chamber launched a land and property in Dubai yesterday, its new slogan, which aims to increase its visibility in support of the real estate market, and new strategies to tighten the regulatory framework for the sector. His Highness Sheikh Mohammed Bin Khalifa Al-Maktoum, Chairman of Dubai Land Department in Dubai «The real estate boom reflecting the main features of the economic prosperity of the country, where Dubai has the experience of architectural and real estate contributed to the increase of competition in the world».

Actions

To detect, officials in the Service during a press conference held yesterday in Dubai, that the cumulative number of the actions of the sale of land since the beginning of 1963 until the end of 2008 amounted to about 145.7 thousand ALLEGIANCE worth 451 billion dirhams. As the number of cumulative actions of the mortgage during the same period was approximately 51.7 A. ALLEGIANCE worth 620 billion dirhams.

The Director-General of Dubai Land Department in Dubai, Mr. Sultan bin Buti, that the decision of His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister and Ruler of Dubai, non-citizens to own real estate in the emirate, has had a significant impact in the growth of the real estate market, where he arrived total sales to 212 billion dirhams since 1963, but rose after the decision in 2002 to record 168 billion dirhams.

He stated that «during the period from 1963 to 2008, mostly in the direction of trading interest in the land sales in terms of number, but it was in the interest of the mortgage in terms of area and value».

He added that «the Service is undergoing a transition in terms of strategic directions in line with the Dubai Strategic Plan, which carried the new slogan».

And actions made on the land in Dubai, more than 156.6 million dirhams, of which sales exceeded the value of 112.7 million dirhams in the different areas of the emirate, and mortgages totaling 43.8 million dirhams.

Via Emirates today


----------



## IISinbadII

chuckthomas said:


> Thanks Gerald.d for the clarification.
> That is $46500 per year for 1 bedroom apartment. That is almost like the price in Manhattan.
> How much would it cost to buy a 1 bedroom apartment in Dubai?
> Are there any cheaper apartments for sale in Dubai?
> What can be bought for $100,000 for example?
> 
> How much would it cost to buy a 1 bedroom apartment (about 600 square foot) in a nice area near a metro station?
> 
> Thanks in advance for reply.


$ 100,000 wont buy you much......possibly something off-plan or under-construction.
The cheapest completed studio will cost you appx. $ 120,000 and i wont be in a nice area.
Completed 1 bedroom apartment in a nice area will cost you appx. $ 190,000 and it would be 5 min drive to the metro station.


----------



## 234sale

what size studio, 300sqft or 750sqft


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Thats the big plus for Dubai.They can use this downturn and the huge reduction in building to catch up with infrastructure.
> DEWA simply couldnt keep up before either so maybe now they have a chance.That goes for the phone/internet providers also.Waiting months for these is a joke.
> Crap developers will be weeded out.Other developers will finish existing projects instead of being more concerned with starting new ones.
> Many unneeded projects will be scraped.
> Dubai is maybe the only place out there that will actually benefit and maybe benefit hugely from the credit crunch.
> As for all the investors returning,the problem is,many came because of the boom.They saw a chance to make alot of money and quick.As its unlikely this will happen again to the same degree,will as many people come and buy?


This is spot on, Dubai takes a deep breath, consolidates, gets the infrastructure back in front of the growth curve, and off we go again, although not at the frenetic pace of 2007 - 08. Which is a good thing.

It really doesn't matter if those who got burned first time around never come back, in absolute numbers it's not a lot of people, there will be plenty of others to replace them.

In general people have very short memories. I was here for 9/11. Dubai was doomed, hotels were empty, companies were packing up and leaving. Lasted about 3 months, by Christmas it was all forgotten about and the city was buzzing again.

What you can never get away from is the fundamentals, not too many places where there is a great city life, with good employment possibilities in almost every business sector, right next to the beach like Dubai. Throw in the tax-free situation and you have a VERY attractive proposition, which people will always want. No recession is going to change that.


----------



## docc

^^ :cheers:


----------



## nisha

More liquidity will get sucked out of the market - with foreign debts getting repaid in 09-10. So forget the anticipated pick-up in mortgage loans. 

My mortgage team (this is from Mortgage Credit and Mortgage Operations) have been slashed by 75%. By March/June, I expect 80-90% of the sales team to be retrenched. I know the story is very similar at both Amlak and Tamweel. 

We are now only at the beginning of the downturn (contrary to reports that "property prices have fallen off a cliff"). Things are going to get really ugly in 09-10.


----------



## glover

^^^^^ availability of mortgages is only part of the problem (and in dubai it has less significance than in the west). the main problem imo is investor confidence and anticipation of a continued downtrend in property prices. 

everyone wants to catch the bottom (but history shows very few succeed in that), but once it becomes clear that prices have stabilized, you will see buying coming back in full force imo. when would that happen, most likely, by years end! but that doesn't mean prices will shoot up, it just means that the balance between supply and demand will be more equal and prices would go sideways for some time.


----------



## nri-hotels

The closest parallel to Dubai would likely be Beirut (Lebanon). I prefer Beirut.


----------



## docc

^^ Really? Why?


----------



## Goss

Richard Head said:


> This is spot on, Dubai takes a deep breath, consolidates, gets the infrastructure back in front of the growth curve, and off we go again, although not at the frenetic pace of 2007 - 08. Which is a good thing.
> 
> It really doesn't matter if those who got burned first time around never come back, in absolute numbers it's not a lot of people, there will be plenty of others to replace them.
> 
> In general people have very short memories. I was here for 9/11. Dubai was doomed, hotels were empty, companies were packing up and leaving. Lasted about 3 months, by Christmas it was all forgotten about and the city was buzzing again.
> 
> What you can never get away from is the fundamentals, not too many places where there is a great city life, with good employment possibilities in almost every business sector, right next to the beach like Dubai. Throw in the tax-free situation and you have a VERY attractive proposition, which people will always want. No recession is going to change that.


Im not so sure about this richard.There will be a hell of a lot of negative publicity about 
the people who got burnt.I think we are just at the tip of the iceberg here.Wait untill people start going to the press.


----------



## smussuw

docc said:


> ^^ Really? Why?


Crumbled infrastructure, beauocratic outdated system, unstable political situation and corruption !

They have lovely people and weather thought


----------



## docc

I should have put the *sarcasm* tag to my earlier post.

Thanks for the info anyways smussuw.


----------



## AppleMac

smussuw said:


> Crumbled infrastructure, beauocratic outdated system, unstable political situation and corruption !
> 
> They have lovely people and weather thought


Beirut or Dubai? :dunno:


----------



## luluprovence

----


----------



## Wannaberich

Wannaberich said:


> As for all the investors returning,the problem is,many came because of the boom.They saw a chance to make alot of money and quick.As its unlikely this will happen again to the same degree,will as many people come and buy?


To clarify I meant will a boom happen again?Probably not.If Dubai becomes a place where property values increase 10/15% per year,way down on before,surely this will reduce the amount of investors.
If you're overseas in particular u may aswell invest at home for the same returns plus u avoid the hassle of having an overseas property?
Like most cities,that may mean most of the property sold will go to end users and not investors which is a good thing.


----------



## Mistermark

Will the boom happen again? IMHO, only if certain conditions are met:

1. Mortgage liquidity returns

2. The Dollar weakens or UAE de-pegs

3. The credibility of Dubai and its government is not permanently shot to pieces. For this to happen, there needs to be a fundamental change of culture based on the principle 'my word is my bond'. If someone buys a property and it drops in value, that's nobody's problem but the purchaser's. If they buy a property because they were told they could have a residency visa, using a contract approved by a master developer owned or part-owned by the ruling family, then they must receive that visa. If they reserved an off-plan unit and the developer goes bust and the investor faces a shortfall because the government negligently failed to put Escrow in place or administer it properly, the government must step in and ensure the project is completed. Otherwise, Dubai loses its credibility for good and the cash inflows from Brits, Indians, Russians, Lebanese and more, that brought the country such rapid growth and envied prosperity will never be repeated.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> If someone buys a property and it drops in value, that's nobody's problem but the purchaser's. If .


In the case of Dubai 3 reasons why I disagree.

1/The Dubai gov 'invited' people to invest.They shouldn't run away therefore when the shit hits the fan.
2/From a PR point of view,it would make investors feel happier and better about Dubai if the gov showed at least they cared and took action.Even if this action had no affect at least they would be seen to be acting.
3/If the Dubai gov take action that is successful,the less investors get burnt,the more they will return and new investors also.Also the less negative crap the western media can print about the unreliable Dubai market the better.Less people will be discouraged.If it doesnt collapse completely because of action taken,therefore less potential investors will be put off.


----------



## nisha

glover said:


> ^^^^^ availability of mortgages is only part of the problem (and in dubai it has less significance than in the west). the main problem imo is investor confidence and anticipation of a continued downtrend in property prices.
> 
> everyone wants to catch the bottom (but history shows very few succeed in that), but once it becomes clear that prices have stabilized, you will see buying coming back in full force imo. when would that happen, most likely, by years end! but that doesn't mean prices will shoot up, it just means that the balance between supply and demand will be more equal and prices would go sideways for some time.


Am not so sure. 

The market assumed (wrongly) that there will never be a crash because so called cash buyers/money launderers/rich Saudis/rich Govt/Abu Dhabi/Russians (Take your pick) would step in to save the property from crashing. We know what happened. "Cash buyers" are desperately trying to seek finance to save themselves from defaulting on payments to developers and losing dozens of properties on which they have made down payments.

Even if banks have the money to lend (a long way in the future), there is now a heightened risk perception and the days of easy credit is well and truly over.

Large Govt. backed developers have seen their cash flows dry up, most have huge debts to repay. They have stopped paying contractors for work already finished. So worrying times ahead for sure.


----------



## lovedubai

No government in the world can be responsible for drops in the value of property. What does need sorting out is what happens to people's cash if projects are put 'on hold' or developers carry on collecting stage payments for years without any construction. The fact that developers can tie up money for years and years and the only redress is individual court action is a real negative for prospective purchasers.


----------



## luluprovence

diveksa said:


>


would anyone happen to have an update in relation to the one provided by diveksa formerly?

thank you.


----------



## Wannaberich

If the unexpected rise in UK house prices in January(+1.9%) is not a one-off,and prices rise again in Feb,maybe this will be because of the low interest rates plus the money the gov have injected into the banks.
Why havent the Dubai goverment injected any money into the banks when so many goverments have?Why are interest rates still soooo high?


----------



## smussuw

^^ They did that couple of months ago !


----------



## AndyH

luluprovence said:


> would anyone happen to have an update in relation to the one provided by diveksa formerly?
> 
> thank you.


This index is still current and is being applied for 2009 contract renewals.


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## HappyLarry

Wannaberich said:


> If the unexpected rise in UK house prices in January(+1.9%) is not a one-off,and prices rise again in Feb,maybe this will be because of the low interest rates plus the money the gov have injected into the banks.
> Why havent the Dubai goverment injected any money into the banks when so many goverments have?Why are interest rates still soooo high?


GN today:
The cost of insuring Dubai's debt with credit default swaps increased on Thursday after an Abu Dhabi plan to inject Dh16 billion ($4.36 billion) into five of its banks further shook confidence in Dubai, bankers said. The Abu Dhabi goverment announced on Wednesday it would lend cash to banks in the emirate, including National Bank of Abu Dhabi (NBAD), via Tier 1 capital notes to bolster confidence as loan defaults mount.
The move left markets wondering whether similar steps would take place in Dubai, where banks are struggling as the emirate's once-booming property sector faces a sharp correction that has prompted developers to scale back expansion and cut jobs. 

   ​ 
Five-year Dubai sovereign credit default swaps (CDS) are traded at 775-825 basis points (bps), about 75 bps higher than Wednesday, two bankers in Dubai and Abu Dhabi said. CDS contracts protecting debt of government-linked Dubai companies also widened by about 50 bps for Dubai World and about 100 bps for Emirates NBD, the bankers said.
"This is because of the Abu Dhabi move. The perception that Dubai could default on its loans is increasing in the market," said one banker in Dubai.
Buying CDS, which is similar to buying insurance, on Abu Dhabi sovereign debt also rose by 20 bps yesterday to about 305 bps - a level similar to those in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, they said.
A property price correction triggered by the global financial crisis has already witnessed Dubai residential real estate prices fall by at least a quarter as speculators exit the market, according to estimates of some investment banks.
Facing the risk of greater mortgage and consumer loan defaults, banks are taking massive provisions for bad loans and writing down investment losses.
In November, Mohammad Al Abbar, chairman of the emirate's top economic body, said Dubai's sovereign debt stood at $10 billion while debts of state-affiliated firms amounted to $70 billion.
Wednesday's Abu Dhabi injection came in addition to Dh120 billion of emergency funding facilities launched by the central bank and finance ministry since September to defrost credit markets.


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## glover

what we are going through right now is not a crash of the real estate market in dubai, it is a global crash of all assets and dubai was engulfed in it. so if we were under normal economic conditions, yes, the picture would have been different, and a correction, which everyone was expecting somewhere down the line, would have been less severe than the current situation due to cash buyers. 

in the end, as others pointed out, when all is said and done, fundamentals will dictate the outcome of this crisis, and in that, dubai has solid ones imo.


nisha said:


> Am not so sure.
> 
> The market assumed (wrongly) that there will never be a crash because so called cash buyers/money launderers/rich Saudis/rich Govt/Abu Dhabi/Russians (Take your pick) would step in to save the property from crashing. We know what happened. "Cash buyers" are desperately trying to seek finance to save themselves from defaulting on payments to developers and losing dozens of properties on which they have made down payments.
> 
> Even if banks have the money to lend (a long way in the future), there is now a heightened risk perception and the days of easy credit is well and truly over.
> 
> Large Govt. backed developers have seen their cash flows dry up, most have huge debts to repay. They have stopped paying contractors for work already finished. So worrying times ahead for sure.


----------



## Wannaberich

HappyLarry said:


> The cost of insuring Dubai's debt with credit default swaps increased on Thursday after an Abu Dhabi plan to inject Dh16 billion ($4.36 billion) into five of its banks further shook confidence in Dubai, bankers said.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana[/QUOTE]
> 
> Will the last person to leave Dubai please switch off the light.:skull:


----------



## NajamD

Bimcnorth said:


> So you bought after everyone had made it rich and left during this downturn making sure that you´ll never regain anything...
> 
> Erm, you fancy a game of poker? :naughty:


Its not about making it rich and making lots of money. That can be done in a lot of ways and in many places. What Dubai has lost is the CONFIDENCE of investors. Lack of insight and accountability is the main reason for this apathy. And by the way, I haven't left the market yet; and yes a game of poker anytime!! your place or mine?


----------



## NajamD

smussuw said:


> ^^ They did that couple of months ago !


That did not even sratch the surface.....And why are the banks still allowed to charge interests at 6-9%. Is there any rule of law and authority in Dubai? Is anyone still in cahrge??


----------



## NajamD

Wannaberich said:


> Will the last person to leave Dubai please switch off the light.:skull:


Its all very depressing indeed!! Can anyone come up with any positive news at all?..... Its such a shame... for a land that promised so much....Come on guys; lets not drown ourselves in this sea of doom and gloom!!!


----------



## High Times

NajamD said:


> And why are the banks still allowed to charge interests at 6-9%. Is there any rule of law and authority in Dubai? Is anyone still in cahrge??


Banks in the UAE just like UK are commercial organisations and are allowed to offer business under the terms of their choosing.

If Banks in the so called "developed world" would have been lending with both sencible margins and sencible lending criteria, the world wouldnt be in the mess it's in now and this forum wouldn't be full of investors who are all crying into their beer bacuase they made bad investment choices and overstreched themselves.


----------



## luluprovence

altinD: if my Q didn't warrant a reply, you could've simply done something else with your time. But instead, you choose your mod status to say :wtf: and then lock the thread. You know what that means. 

this :toilet: might help? if you annoyed about something / many things - i hope you feel better.


----------



## Wannaberich

----


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> Banks in the UAE just like UK are commercial organisations and are allowed to offer business under the terms of their choosing.
> 
> If Banks in the so called "developed world" would have been lending with both sencible margins and sencible lending criteria, the world wouldnt be in the mess it's in now and this forum wouldn't be full of investors who are all crying into their beer bacuase they made bad investment choices and overstreched themselves.


Who gives a damn about these investors.Low life scum of the earth.Right?


----------



## Andy W

I am not a property analyst but I don't think it takes one to realise that in Dubai there is a servere supply/ demand issue unlike any country in the wolrd and I hazard to say, maybe more than any other type of market in the world. In the very recent past the market built and built like it was overdosing on viagra because everyone was making huge money on rising equity values without the slightest thought of the fundamental question of end user demand. It was all just crazy but we failed to realise. Drive around the Marina or JBR at 7pm and count the lights in the windows. 

I own an apartment on the Palm Jumeirah which I plan to live in, due for competion at the end of the year hopefully and I reckon prices have dropped maybe 50%. Naturally I have to be optomistic but believe that despite its faults, stability and prosperity will return one day to Dubai. I just hope that when it does we will all have learnt some good lessons and the place comes out stronger for it.


----------



## Wannaberich

Andy W said:


> Drive around the Marina or JBR at 7pm and count the lights in the windows.


Do people actually do that? :wtf:


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## High Times

Wannaberich said:


> Who gives a damn about these investors.Low life scum of the earth.Right?


Mmmmmmmm I love the smell of sarcasm in the morning………

One thing I think you misunderstand Wannbe, is that Sheikh Mo (Dubai PLC) invited people to invest in his brand with the offer of prosperity and the chance to build an exiting city for the future.

Guess what, he didn’t want hundreds of Russians, Britt’s Europeans and all the rest throwing money on the table to inflate real estate prices to a ridiculously high level and therefore preventing real end users to come to Dubai and help the city thrive for generations to come. He didn’t want to see rents so expensive that it leaves empty properties because people can’t afford to rent them. He didn’t want to see failing businesss because employees couldn’t afford to live in Dubai unless they were Microsoft and CNN employees on $200k a year 

I wouldn’t be so arrogant to second guess the big man and his people, but I wouldn’t mind betting that he’s sat in his tent laughing his nuts of at all those greedy little speculators who are slowly getting burned.

Dubai never wanted speculators, it wanted genuine long term investors and real end users to come to Dubai and enjoy tax friendly business opportunities, in a safe environment, with traditional Arab hospitality thrown in for good measure.

You are all guests here not owners.

If you were invited into someone’s home as a guest, would you be so rude as to spit your food out half way through a meal and tell your host he has cooked it all wrong and insist he goes back to the kitchen and re-cook it to your total satisfaction?

Western arrogance – meets Middle Eastern values.


----------



## Naz UK

I'm not sure anyone can truly say with any conviction what Sheikh Mohammed wants and doesn't want. I think even his closest aides don't have a clue. That would quite nicely explain why the companies of all his various devotees are in such a fucked up state right now and were so well before the financial crisis. But you gotta just love the fact that your local shop keeper will get on a bike and deliver you a litre of milk at 11.30 pm for just 6 Dhs.


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> Dubai never wanted speculators, it wanted genuine long term investors and real end users to come to Dubai and enjoy tax friendly business opportunities, in a safe environment, with traditional Arab hospitality thrown in for good measure.
> 
> 
> Western arrogance – meets Middle Eastern values.


Yet Dubai did nothing to try and prevent these speculators,etc.Strange.
Laws such as one talked about where you could not sell up within a year or before paying say 50% were not introduced.Goodbye flippers.
Curbing the amount of developments out there rather than passing every single damn project would have been another option.Now Dubai will have many units empty due to oversupply.
As for rents,do you know what a rent cap is?How about introducing one a long time ago?
I mean,really,you could think of a whole host of things.
As for encouraging end users,kinda hard when they arent even allowed visas dont u think.

Western ignorance meets Middle Eastern greed.


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> If you were invited into someone’s home as a guest, would you be so rude as to spit your food out half way through a meal and tell your host he has cooked it all wrong and insist he goes back to the kitchen and re-cook it to your total satisfaction?
> 
> .


Only if u were the cook.


----------



## DubaiExpat

*Optimistic*

Though I have personally booked some losses, I am still very optimistic about Dubai. In 5 years time Dubai will definitely recover from such crisis and would be better off to face future crisis.


----------



## Richard Head

The doom and gloom here is so overplayed. I just got back from the Ranches Polo club, brunch, few drinks and an afternoon with the horses. Fully booked a week ahead. Sure there were a couple of Astons and Ferraris, but mostly regular middle class people in 4WDs and kids enjoying a day out in the sun. The whole day had an attitude about it of "**** the recession, it's just a blip, Dubai will bounce back bigger and stronger". Half the guys we were with just got laid off, they still have the same view. Nobody going home, they all saved enough to wait it out and if it takes a year to get a new job they're just fine.

I'll drink one for the pessimists. **** 'em all. :cheers::cheers::cheers::banana::banana::banana::banana:


----------



## Andy W

Wannaberich said:


> Do people actually do that? :wtf:



I hope not! But if the man on the street wanted to get a quick and tangible demonstration of the oversupply of property in Dubai it's a good way!


----------



## Richard Head

DubaiExpat said:


> Though I have personally booked some losses, I am still very optimistic about Dubai. In 5 years time Dubai will definitely recover from such crisis and would be better off to face future crisis.


I have a paper loss of 3 - 4 million from peak values. It sucks but **** it, I wasn't smart enough to sell at the top, so I ride it out, my costs are more than covered, and for me it was always a long term bet anyway, Dubai is home. Kids both born here etc......

Did i mention fundamental value ?


----------



## lovedubai

Yeah, fundamental values - not swearing constantly for no good reason.


----------



## Richard Head

lovedubai said:


> Yeah, fundamental values - not swearing constantly for no good reason.


Ahhhh, sorry, didn't know the kids were still up hno:


----------



## lovedubai

Obviously you're still up or otherwise you wouldn't be posting. Thought it was only teenagers who needed to swear to prove how mature they were.


----------



## desertmaster

Richard Head said:


> The doom and gloom here is so overplayed. I just got back from the Ranches Polo club, brunch, few drinks and an afternoon with the horses. Fully booked a week ahead. Sure there were a couple of Astons and Ferraris, but mostly regular middle class people in 4WDs and kids enjoying a day out in the sun. The whole day had an attitude about it of "**** the recession, it's just a blip, Dubai will bounce back bigger and stronger". Half the guys we were with just got laid off, they still have the same view. Nobody going home, they all saved enough to wait it out and if it takes a year to get a new job they're just fine.
> 
> I'll drink one for the pessimists. **** 'em all. :cheers::cheers::cheers::banana::banana::banana::banana:


ya they must have told you that they will be buying property in their free time w/o jobs


----------



## houshang

If speculators were not welcomed in Dubai why developers like Nakheel and Emaar were setting a maximum of ONLY 5 PROPERTIES TO EACH INVESTOR !!!!!!!at property sales.


----------



## Richard Head

^^ Did someone suddenly adjust the idiot coefficient?


----------



## kano

^^^ give him a break and real advice!!


----------



## AppleMac

Richard Head said:


> Ahhhh, sorry, didn't know the kids were still up hno:


Richard - a bit of friendly advice - dont post when you have spent the afternoon down the Polo club having a few bevvy's.

But I get your drift...:cheers:


----------



## Mavekris

^^well yes people have trusted the* government *developers .

They should have never exploited the trust in them this way.

Now both are taking a beating ..


----------



## peacesells

Mavekris said:


> Well i have not said this pls check the title for the source.
> 
> Do you think that it was demand supply ratio the reason behind why developers were increasing the price
> 
> Common Scenario, pre crash with the big 3 sales launch.
> 
> Target 1000 units
> 
> 9 Am (lets see how the demand is HOUR) 200units price 100aed.
> 
> 10 Am (oh we have lot of fools) 300 units price 125aed.
> 
> Lunch break
> 
> 1pm (ohhhh we are no short of losers jumping with cheques in hand ) 300 units 140Aed.
> 
> Sorry sales closed for the day Phase 2 Next week
> 
> Present scenario now - The guy who bought at 9Am
> 
> Bought At lowest OP Phase-1 0% premium.
> 
> 10 Am Guy op - 5%
> 
> 
> Just check expatriates this is how people who have burnt their fingers are advertising. so where is demand supply coming into picture here please enlighten me ..


So which part of the scenario you have described is not in line with 'demand/supply' correlation? The cue of people outside the sales office = high demand. The phased launch = short supply. See my previous post about what happens when supply exceeds demand.


----------



## peacesells

Mavekris said:


> ^^well yes people have trusted the* government *developers .
> 
> They should have never exploited the trust in them this way.
> 
> Now both are taking a beating ..


This doesn't even make sense. Who exploited whom exactly and how? Hint: increasing prices due to high demand isn't exploitation, it's called sales management.


----------



## desertmaster

*UAE: Construction costs down 71% since Aug*

08 February 2009
Construction costs in Dubai have fallen by 70.83 per cent from their peak of Dh1,200 per square foot in August 2008 to about Dh350 per sqft today, industry sources said.

Developers say they are renegotiating their deals with contractors to levels even as low as Dh270 per sqft. Imad Al Jamal, of the UAE Contractors Association, told Emirates Business the numbers have fallen sharply.

"The cost has gone down to between Dh400 and Dh600 per sqft with some areas going as low as Dh350. This is against a peak in August 2008, when it went as high as Dh1,200 per sqft for high-end projects. We are only talking about core and shell and not looking at the finishes," Al Jamal said.
http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZ...truction Costs In Dubai Down 71% Since August


----------



## Richard Head

peacesells said:


> This doesn't even make sense. Who exploited whom exactly and how? Hint: increasing prices due to high demand isn't exploitation, it's called sales management.


Oh sure, in the same way that the school bully picking on all the weaker, smaller kids might be called "genetic advantage management" hno: Only a salesman would come out with a gem like that.


----------



## Philippa C

By increasing prices with every new release developers encouraged speculation. Someone could buy a property and sell it the next week with a 10% premium, minimum.

There's "sales management" and then there's responsible release by a governemnt developer. Gov developers should have shown more responsibility. In addition, buyers should not have been able to resell properties before a give time.


----------



## Adel

desertmaster said:


> 08 February 2009
> Construction costs in Dubai have fallen by 70.83 per cent from their peak of Dh1,200 per square foot in August 2008 to about Dh350 per sqft today, industry sources said.
> 
> Developers say they are renegotiating their deals with contractors to levels even as low as Dh270 per sqft. Imad Al Jamal, of the UAE Contractors Association, told Emirates Business the numbers have fallen sharply.
> 
> "The cost has gone down to between Dh400 and Dh600 per sqft with some areas going as low as Dh350. This is against a peak in August 2008, when it went as high as Dh1,200 per sqft for high-end projects. We are only talking about core and shell and not looking at the finishes," Al Jamal said.
> http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZ...truction Costs In Dubai Down 71% Since August


Could someone explain something for me. When they talk about construction cost do they mean the contractors prices (quotations) or the cost without contractors profit, like if I wanted to build my own villa, cos I think even 350 is too high. Even at 350 contractors are making a killing in profits.


----------



## smussuw

^^ I don't really know what are referring to in the article but for us to build a house it would cost AED +300 psf. It is indeed very high even after the crisis !

Hope it goes to as low as AED 200 psf or something :banana:


----------



## Maha

peacesells said:


> Hint: increasing prices due to high demand isn't exploitation, it's called sales management.


No :bash:, increasing prices due to high demand is not called "sales management", it's called "a normal phenomenon", if you have more buyers than sellers, prices go up, if you have more sellers than buyers, prices go down. That's how the market works.

The abnormal thing was the vast increase in demand because the demand was mostly from speculators not from end users or even those that wanted to let the property - most of the demand was by people who just wanted to flip the property.

While flipping property is also a healthy part of the market, the speculators in Dubai wanted to flip the property in 3 months with a 20% profit on the property price and a 250% profit on the investment!!

Now that is abnormal.


----------



## Wannaberich

More work visas issued than cancelled - Dubai

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/546094-more-work-visas-issued-than-cancelled---dubai


----------



## Maha

Philippa C said:


> By increasing prices with every new release developers encouraged speculation. Someone could buy a property and sell it the next week with a 10% premium, minimum.
> 
> There's "sales management" and then there's responsible release by a governemnt developer. Gov developers should have shown more responsibility. In addition, buyers should not have been able to resell properties before a give time.


I'm not defending the government or the developers; but get real, if no one was buying for the higher price they would reduce it or cancel the project!! People swarmed at it like locust!

Sure, they increased their prices… but only because people were buying.


----------



## Imre

Wannaberich said:


> More work visas issued than cancelled - Dubai
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/546094-more-work-visas-issued-than-cancelled---dubai


same story as the "Only 11 cars left at Dubai airport in past year"


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## worried1

*Where is Chuckthomas*

Where is chuckthomas the black american


----------



## mackie1964

Imre said:


> same story as the "Only 11 cars left at Dubai airport in past year"


3,000 within the last couple of months according to the UK papers this weekend :bash::bash: Must be somewhere in the middle


----------



## speculator

worried1 said:


> Where is chuckthomas the black american


We frightened him off ! Well my last post did anyway


----------



## Adel

smussuw said:


> ^^ I don't really know what are referring to in the article but for us to build a house it would cost AED +300 psf. It is indeed very high even after the crisis !
> 
> Hope it goes to as low as AED 200 psf or something :banana:


Yes that's why I'm surprised, and 300psf is for a complete house not only the structure.


----------



## Money2Burn

*DUBAI IS TURNING INTO A GHOST TOWN!!!*




























not


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## speculator

chuckthomas said:


> No I am not scared off by your post. AltinD said I am troll. So, I decided to leave the forum so that you could have some peace and quiet. That is all.
> 
> 
> Now, let us talk about the above post:
> America is not bust. America will continue to be the richest and most powerful country. America is a capitalist country. Its economy goes through cycles.


Oh yes its a well known fact that US does borrow from the east as that's where the largest sovereign wealth funds are. I really haven't got anything against you personally.kay:I am just trying to help you by giving you true facts which you dont get in the US.

Here a link for you. This will keep you busy for a long time. START COUNTDOWN 

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Abu Dhabi urges UAE stimulus package*

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cf48a10e-f5b8-11dd-a9ed-0000779fd2ac.html

Published: February 8 2009 08:39 | Last updated: February 8 2009 08:39

An important Abu Dhabi policy advisory board headed by the emirate’s influential crown prince has urged the capital of the United Arab Emirates to establish a “comprehensive economy stimulant package” for the entire country.

The report comes as bankers and credit analysts warn that oil-rich Abu Dhabi’s unilateral decision last week to recapitalise its own five banks exposes other UAE institutions to unwelcome scrutiny. Fitch Ratings said in a report on Thursday that Abu Dhabi’s action “leaves other banks in the UAE looking potentially more vulnerable in the event of a significant domestic downturn”.

This sparked fears that the capital of the UAE may hesitate to support neighbouring emirates such as Dubai. A senior Abu Dhabi official told the FT at the end of last week that there had been no formal approach by Dubai to ask for help in securing banks and other institutions in the UAE’s commercial capital.

The Abu Dhabi Council for Economic Development, chaired by Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, said in a report published on Sunday that Abu Dhabi should lead federal efforts to ease the slowdown across the seven-state federation, not just in the capital.

“What is needed is a comprehensive economy stimulant package, which involves public spending on mega projects and the infrastructure,” the policy tank said in a report according to Emirates Business, a local newspaper. “Abu Dhabi must intervene with full strength through its large financial resources to restore confidence and put the economy on the track of growth.”

The federal government has injected Dh50bn of deposits into UAE banks – with promises of a further Dh20bn to come – and opened a Dh50bn credit facility at the central bank.

However, more should be done by Abu Dhabi to buffer economic growth in the country, the council said.

“While such measures have succeeded in offsetting liquidity shortages and ensuring continuance of normal bank lending operations, more should be done by Abu Dhabi or the UAE as a whole in order to enable the banking sector to fully recover and resume its role in supporting the domestic economy,” the report said. “This can be done through the country’s massive financial reserves.”

Abu Dhabi’s financial stability and economic growth is underpinned by its oil revenue and sovereign wealth fund, but other states in the UAE are feeling the pinch of the credit crunch – particularly Dubai.

Dubai officials insist the city-state can weather the credit crunch, but bankers say Dubai is dependent on outside financing to pay back or roll over approximately $20bn of debt that matures this year.

Abu Dhabi’s decision to recapitalise only its own banks last week sent the cost of insuring against a Dubai default to a record high, as investors increasingly fear the previously booming city may fall victim to frozen credit markets and a looming global recession.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Bank aid prompts fears over support for Dubai

Abu Dhabi's unilateral move to recapitalise its own banks has sparked fears among investors that the oil-rich capital of the United Arab Emirates may hesitate to support Dubai as the impact of the credit crunch worsens.

A senior Abu Dhabi official said this week's decision to inject Dh16bn ($4.3bn, €3.4bn, £3bn) of extra tier I capital into its five banks, but ignore other banks of the seven-emirate federation, was meant to add an addition layer of protection for its own local houses.

Bankers warned that Abu Dhabi's go-it-alone attitude could indicate that the federal government might not be as willing as expected in rescuing Dubai entities that face default.

Investors in Dubai bonds, at least, jumped to that conclusion as the cost of insuring against its default yesterday jumped to record highs.

Dubai - the commercial hub of the UAE - is struggling under the weight of about $80bn of short-term debt, about $20bn of which is due for repayment or refinancing this year. Abu Dhabi can rely on vast oil revenues and investment income from the world's largest sovereign wealth fund. The federal government, underpinned by Abu Dhabi's vast wealth, had previously led efforts to stave off recession, injecting Dh50bn of deposits into UAE banks, with promises of a further Dh20bn to come, and opening a Dh50bn credit facility at the central bank.

Dubai's two troubled mortgage providers are also in the process of being folded into federally-backed institutions in Abu Dhabi.

*"Abu Dhabi feels that Dubai has been reckless, and probably wants to teach it a lesson," a senior regional banker said. "There are a lot of ruler lieutenants involved and they are arguing, but some sort of settlement will have to be reached eventually."*

Some observers say Abu Dhabi sees the crisis as an opportunity to assert its undisputed supremacy in the country's federal structure, while Dubai is striving to maintain its autonomy within the confines of the 37-year-old federation.

Dubai shares fell while Abu Dhabi equities rose yesterday.

*"With the global slowdown having a bigger impact on the Dubai economy and the real estate correction more severe, the absence of any similar move by the Dubai government does not bode well," Deutsche Bank analysts wrote in a note.*

The injection "could further raise investor concerns over Abu Dhabi's willingness to step in and help Dubai with any potential financing problem", it added.

*Dubai officials, for their part, have said the emirate will solve its debt problems alone. And senior Abu Dhabi officials say they will not offer aid until formally requested by Dubai.*

But Dubai's globally oriented economy, argue bankers, may well still need further financial aid from the capital to avoid a default, especially if credit markets remain locked down and global economic recovery takes time.

"Abu Dhabi is not going to let Dubai slide, but the price will be high," a senior local banker said.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Seems that Abu Dhabi and Dubai are still at war with each other regarding egos. Reminds me of this story.



> *From Oakland Tribune, Sunday, December 08, 1968 Oakland, California*
> 
> Three members of the federation, Sharja, Abu Dhabi and Dubai, were at war as recently as 1947. They-used flintlock muskets and a 300-year-old cannon.
> 
> Cannon balls were in short supply, so every night after prayers a truce was declared to allow warriors to collect them from the battlefield.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=544914


----------



## IISinbadII

*chuckthomas*,

Don't think about leaving...I like your posts. 

Please stay on the forum and contribute. People have a lot of misconceptions about America. We need people like you on this board. 

Regarding America going bust. There is a saying: "When an elephant sits, its still taller than a donkey!"


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai will grow at 2.5% 

on Monday, February 09, 2009

Dubai's economy will grow at about 2.5 per cent in 2009 in spite of global recessionary trends, a senior Dubai Government official said yesterday.

Raed Safadi, Chief Economist of the Dubai Government, termed a possible 2.5 per cent growth in 2009 a "conservative estimate". This compares to about eight per cent growth in 2008.

"We have revised downward our forecast since October. This is because we have accepted that we are not immune to the global financial crisis. And we are open to sharing our records," he said. Safadi said Dubai continues to lay emphasis on retaining human capital, saying net visas issued by the emirate per day in January averaged about 1,000.

Safadi said Dubai's economy did use leverage to enhance its infrastructure and production capacity. "How would we have grown otherwise? It's not that we have not been contaminated. However, we have had six years of current surplus. We did prepare for the worst when we were growing," he said.

"We are being challenged on exports, we are being challenged also in the real estate sector, on construction and, of course, on tourism. All these sectors are under pressure here," Safadi said.

In 2007, the Government of Dubai said it aimed to grow at 11 per cent per year to 2015. That target was reduced this year to between four per cent and six per cent.

Standard Chartered bank last month cut its growth forecast for the UAE to 0.5 per cent from a previous estimate of 2.7 per cent.

Masood Ahmed, Director of the IMF's Middle East and Central Asia Department, said GCC economic growth will slow to 3.6 per cent this year from 6.3 per cent last year. He did not give separate figures for the UAE or Dubai. The IMF has revised its forecast four times in the past six months. "The regular revisions have happened because we have never seen such a severe crisis. And our economic models for forecasts have not worked well," he said.

"For the oil exporters, the decline in oil prices and Opec production cuts are projected to reduce oil export receipts by almost 50 per cent in 2009," Ahmed said. "This implies a loss of government revenue to the tune of $300 billion (Dh1.1 trillion) compared to 2008."

However, increased government spending could help bolster the Gulf economies, Ahmed said. The oil exporters' current account surplus of $400bn will turn into a deficit of $30bn this year, Ahmed said.

http://business24-7.ae/articles/2009/2/pages/02092009_4460cae7a6a14cc6a015ba227c213aee.aspx


----------



## bjassin

*Impressions of Dubai - Feb. 2009 Visit*

My wife and I usually go to Dubai about once per year. We just got back today. Last time we went was in Feb. 2008. Ever since then I have been keeping up with this forum and I must say that there is a huge difference between impression and reality. The attitude in this forum is way more depressing than the reality. Let me summarize some of what I noticed.

I went to Dubai expecting the entire city to be DEAD--I am serious. Reading this forum, I thought that all expatriates had basically left, that hotels and malls would be empty, that the roads would have no cars and the whole place would be a GHOST town. The reality was far diffent. These some of the places we visited:

Old Souk
- The place was just as busy and bustling as it was one year ago. My wife bought some clothes from different shops and I talked to the owners. They all said that sales have definitely dropped--they noticed that the slowdown started in Dec. 2008. However, they all also said that last year (2008) was the best year they had--EVER !! Everyone looked at me like I was crazy when I asked if they had considered closing their shop. The basic impression I got was that business is less than last year, but nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be.

Atlantis:
- I honestly thought that they would be GIVING away rooms here since everyone on this forum talks like the place is COMPLETELY dead. The cheapest room I could find was for $550 per night--hardly being given away. We had dinner at 'Seafire' restaurant and I had honestly considered just showing up and not making a reservation as I thought the place would be empty. Nevertheless, my wife forced me to make a reservation and when we went there, the place was PACKED !! Once we were seated, I saw only 2 empty tables in the whole restaurant. The hotel lobby was also jammed packed with people. Again, I thought it would be empty of people. 

Nakheel Office & Visas:
- I really don't understand what all this fuss about residency visas is all about. I went to the customer sales center and there were people in line waiting to pickup their visas. I talked to the Nakheel rep and they looked at me like I was a moron when I asked if they had stopped giving out visas for property owners. I told them I read somewhere that these are no longer being issued and the guy showed me a stack of passports with Visas on them--3 year renewable visas. The only change is that the sponsor has changed from Nakheel to a company called 'Trakhees'. But if you buy a property TODAY, you can have a visa in less than 1 week. The only exceptions are for people from Iran or Iraq. In fact, I saw with my own eyes, 1 guy from Nigeria, one from South Africa, and one from Australia picking up their visas while I was waiting to talk to the Nakheel rep.

Tourist Malls:
- We are not mall shoppers but made a conscious effort to go to the following malls: Mall of the Emirates, Ibn Batuta, Dubai Mall, the Walk, Burjuman, City Centre. We had previously been to all except Dubai Mall and the Walk, which just opened in the last year. I expected to see them being ABSOLUTELY EMPTY and DEAD. Instead, they were as busy as I remembered them last year. I was actually surprised.

Taxi Drivers:
- Last year all the drivers were complaining about high prices and how they were thinking about leaving Dubai because it had become too expensive. This year, we heard a LOT less complaints from the drivers.

Construction:
- The construction of the new subway lines have moved along quite nicely. The stations under construction look awesome. Again, I expected that all construction had ground to a halt. Reality was far more different.

Conclusion:
- I must say that I had a much better impression of the place than what you would get from just reading this forum. It appears to me that there are a lot of bitter 'investors' in this forum. I have no doubt that the property market has come down substantially, but Dubai is not all about the prices of a few apartment buildings. I think that once the new subway system is finished and the world economy starts to recover, Dubai will be an awesome place to be in. If you bought property to 'flip' in a few months, I can see how so many people could be bitter. But, if you really want to work or live here, I have no doubt that in a few years Dubai will be BETTER than it is today.

BJ


----------



## desertmaster

*HOPE*

just a read to know how tackling this crisis is a crisis in itself !!! 

http://www.realtyplusmag.com/rpnewsletter/fullstory.asp?news_id=1697&cat_id=4

Aid for struggling US property owners not working

February 09, 2009

More than half of struggling property owners in the US who have been given a break with their mortgages quickly end up in trouble again, a growing problem that is hampering a recovery in the real estate industry. Research from the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency shows that more than 50 per cent of property owners who get help end up missing at least one payment within six months. 

The high default rate on reworked mortgages is complicating efforts to address a property crisis that is already among the worst on record. It has sent government and industry officials scrambling to find new fixes as president Obama's administration pledges to spend $50 billion to $100 billion to help property owners. 

The high default rate is an indication of severe problems according to John Dugan, comptroller of the currency, whose office regulates some mortgage lenders. “It is not just that the number is high, but that it keeps getting worse each month,” Dugan said. 

“It is troubling to see a large number aren't staying current and we don't know why,” said Faith Schwartz, executive director of Hope Now, an alliance of lenders. 

Most modifications aimed at preventing foreclosure and they succeed in the short term. However, experts are pointing out that in the long term this is not the case. 

According to a Credit Suisse report on subprime loans, those that were modified by lowering the interest rate or the principal balance owed were the least likely to become delinquent again. 

Modifications in which lenders simply gave homeowners time to catch up but raised monthly payments to cover missed amounts and late fees, or lowered interest rates for a time but then restored the rates to their previous level, were the least successful. 

Alan White, an assistant law professor at Valparaiso University, has found that even with property prices dropping rapidly, lenders have been reluctant to lower the borrower's principal. Instead, the average modification adds $10,000 to the main amount owed. 

This has contributed to a higher re-default rate, White said. “Negative equity is the biggest predictor of re-default. If you have equity, you can always sell your house and you get some money and get a fresh start. They are less motivated to struggle to make payments if they are underwater on their house,” White added. 

Even with the government's largest foreclosure programme, known as Hope for Homeowners, about 40 per cent of homeowners are expected to fall behind on payments again.


----------



## desertmaster

bjassin said:


> Nakheel Office & Visas:
> - I really don't understand what all this fuss about residency visas is all about. I went to the customer sales center and there were people in line waiting to pickup their visas. I talked to the Nakheel rep and they looked at me like I was a moron when I asked if they had stopped giving out visas for property owners. I told them I read somewhere that these are no longer being issued and the guy showed me a stack of passports with Visas on them--3 year renewable visas. The only change is that the sponsor has changed from Nakheel to a company called 'Trakhees'. But if you buy a property TODAY, you can have a visa in less than 1 week. The only exceptions are for people from Iran or Iraq. In fact, I saw with my own eyes, 1 guy from Nigeria, one from South Africa, and one from Australia picking up their visas while I was waiting to talk to the Nakheel rep.
> 
> to the mis-informed the GOVT is not issuing any visas or guarenteeing any visas which was potrayed wrongly by most of the developers. Companies can and are doing. Its the same like ALL the free zone's in dubai . the free zone as an entity gives you a visa. U turns are very common here ...I see the visa thing getting regularized very soon out here for property owners (IMO to thier satisfation)


----------



## desertmaster

Just because you saw a lot of people in Dubai, you cannot conclude that economy is good. Even in Gaza strip you will see a lot of people. Does that mean Gaza has a great economy? Dubai has been bailed out by central Govt once already. It may need another bailout. Burj dubai and Metro will be built. But, none of that is going to bring the old prosperity back. 

Trolling done. Now, I will go sleep.[/QUOTE]

we have dubai festival going on and people have booked long back to attend it. we used to call it TRAFFIC FESTIVAL !!! its back to dubai festival now i guess !!


----------



## Philippa C

I think it's fair to use the busyness of shops etc in Dubai as an indicator of the economic health of the city. My husband travels to paris at least once a month on business. He was there last week and he said he has seen the city so quiet and you could feel the effects of the downturn even though all the shops were having sales.


----------



## peacesells

Richard Head said:


> Oh sure, in the same way that the school bully picking on all the weaker, smaller kids might be called "genetic advantage management" hno: Only a salesman would come out with a gem like that.


Ugh no. You guys are confusing demand vs supply and demand-from-end-users vs supply. Seriously, please do yourself a favor and stop claiming that developers were raising prices because 'they were greedy' - they are businesses and make profit, if there's demand (from end users or otherwise), you raise your price. This is how things work. 

Oh and Richard - your analogy would work if the developer sold the unit, then raised the price and threatened to not return the money if the client didn't agree. THAT is bullying. Raising prices because there's a line of people fighting to buy your property is business, IS effective sales management and is fair to everyone involved. Whether you think this was bad for the economy or the country because most of those guys were 'flippers' or speculators is irrelevant - when it comes to reasons why the prices went up so much in Dubai, there's only one answer - because demand was greater than supply.


----------



## desertmaster

^^ if it is so simple then now since supply is more than demand let the market decide !!!! why does everyone want govt intervention and reforms and why should banks be given any money !!!!!


----------



## desertmaster

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090208/BUSINESS/668170429/1005

More airline and hotel cuts on the way
Amena Bakr 

Last Updated: February 08. 2009 8:17PM UAE / February 8. 2009 4:17PM GMT Hotel and airline customer numbers have stabilised after operators offered steep discounts in December to shore up business, but there could be more cuts ahead and analysts fear profits will suffer in the longer term.

Since December, Dubai’s Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DTCM) has been encouraging hotels and tour operators to reduce prices to boost tourism as part of its drive to double the number of visitors to the emirate in the next six years.

“In the case of hotels cutting rates, it has to be handled with care because it’s not just about filling up rooms,” said Elie Armaly, the business development director at Roya International, a hospitality consultancy. “At some point, a hotel needs to renovate the property and it must be able to cover these costs,” 

Last week, the DTCM announced it would extend hotel room-rate discounts beyond the Dubai Shopping Festival, which ends on Feb 15, to shore up occupancy rates further.

Since hotels in Dubai started feeling the impact of the crisis in November, room rates have been slashed by as much as 60 per cent, leading to a 25.9 per cent drop in revenue per available room (Revpar) in December compared with a year earlier, according to the US-based travel research firm STR Global.

Habib Khan, the chief executive of Planet Group, which has three mid-range hotels in Dubai, said all hotels in the emirate would have to drop prices further if they wanted to survive.

“We really have no choice, and in the case of five-star hotels the cuts are going to be the highest,” he said. “For example, a five-star hotel that has a room rate of Dh1,700 (US$462) is now Dh900 and in a few months time it might drop to Dh600.”

Mr Khan said his hotels were running in the high 70 per cent occupancy range last month, compared with the low 60s in December.

Booking volumes in the region have been stronger than in the US and Europe, said Rabih Saab, the vice president for the Middle East for Travelport Global Distribution System (GDS), which provides booking capabilities to travel agencies in more than 145 countries.

“Despite the fact that the rate of growth in travel bookings is slower than last year, the Middle East is still looking healthy,” said Mr Saab. “As prices for hotels and airfares drop further, I’m expecting that this will encourage more people to travel to the region.” 

Airlines have also been trying to stimulate growth by cutting airfares. Last weekend, Etihad Airways announced new discounts on flights throughout its network following similar moves by Emirates Airline a week earlier.

“The special deals for economy-class seats we announced at the weekend have got off to a flying start,” Etihad said, adding that the promotion would not affect profit margins. 

“The impact of tactical promotions and special deals, whatever the business, is measured by the incremental revenue generated rather than its effect on margins.”

Housam Raydan, a spokesman for Air Arabia, the Sharjah-based low-cost carrier, said airlines that did not normally run on a low-cost operational model might see profits dip.

“The results by the end of this year will be very interesting to watch because the airlines that did not normally operate in a way to minimise operating costs are having to change their business model now and these changes might be seen in their overall net profits.” 

To keep tourist numbers on track, Gerhard Hardick, the chief operating officer of Roya International, said deeper discounts were the only way forward. “I think that in the coming year, [we] will see more discounts from hotels and airlines because they have to be able to compete with the rest of the region and right now the rates are still too high.”

[email protected]


----------



## AppleMac

chuckthomas said:


> On the other hand, if America stop buying oil from middle east, the middle east including Dubai will go bankrupt.


LOL - I know Americans are depicted somewhat unfairly as insular - but I can see where some get that idea from. :lol:

To my American friend I can only inform you that there is a big wide world outside of the borders of the US - The *Worlds* economy (and the US is *not* the world - no matter how some might like to think so) runs on oil.

Europe, Asia and the emerging economies all need oil so please no more jokes about the US bankrupting the Middle East.


----------



## peacesells

desertmaster said:


> ^^ if it is so simple then now since supply is more than demand let the market decide !!!! why does everyone want govt intervention and reforms and why should banks be given any money !!!!!


This has nothing to do what I was discussing, but anyway...

First, not everyone agrees that the government should directly intervene and give out cash to struggling companies. Second, not everyone agrees on whether reform is necessary or not (witness the UAE residence visa issue).


----------



## Richard Head

desertmaster said:


> “The special deals for economy-class seats we announced at the weekend have got off to a flying start,” Etihad said, *adding that the promotion would not affect profit margins. *
> “The impact of tactical promotions and special deals, whatever the business, is measured by the incremental revenue generated rather than its effect on margins.”


I'm not sure who's worse, the idiots that make these statements, or the newspapers that print them. Do they honestly believe the average reader is dumb enough to believe this crap? it's like a man who just lost his right leg saying "it's made absolutely no difference to me, since my preferred method of measuring the number of legs I have is by taking the number of toes on my left foot and dividing by 2.5"


----------



## peacesells

Richard Head said:


> I'm not sure who's worse, the idiots that make these statements, or the newspapers that print them. Do they honestly believe the average reader is dumb enough to believe this crap? it's like a man who just lost his right leg saying "it's made absolutely no difference to me, since my preferred method of measuring the number of legs I have is by taking the number of toes on my left foot and dividing by 2.5"


I blame the idiots that make these statements.


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## desertmaster

they are not idiots as they look like ....they always have different revenue streams IMO to keep profits for eg :

1) the visa needed by most of us to enter is made by the airline and they make a huge profit on it ....reason : the immigration makes it stricter/costlier for us to sponsor them ...so they get the revenue

2) they give stricter fare conditions wherby a person changing /cancelling is subject to bigger penalties.


----------



## peacesells

desertmaster said:


> they are not idiots as they look like ....they always have different revenue streams IMO to keep profits for eg :
> 
> 1) the visa needed by most of us to enter is made by the airline and they make a huge profit on it ....reason : the immigration makes it stricter/costlier for us to sponsor them ...so they get the revenue
> 
> 2) they give stricter fare conditions wherby a person changing /cancelling is subject to bigger penalties.


1) The visa is NOT made by the airline (a tourist visa is made by the travel agency, a visit/residence visa by the sponsor).

2) Good point, except he first says "would not affect profit margins", which, all things being equal and fare price lower, is wrong, and then he says "incremental revenue generated rather than its effect on margins", implying that profit margins are affected but aren't important to them in measuring their success.


----------



## speculator

chuckthomas said:


> . No problem. As long as America has paper and ink, there will be plenty of dollars.


Im sure you guys have plenty of ink and paper so why dont you just print enough to clear all debt and not have to borrow more. The answer is because they cant print anymore. The dollar is worthless already.

Now if the mid east OPEC or all oil producing nations decided to trade oil in euros rather than the dollar that would be a sure fire bankruptcy for the currency. The US administration have been on knees begging for this not to happen. 
All we need are a few more Ahmadinejad's and US is finished.


----------



## Wannaberich

Chuckthomas,Chuckthomas,where for art thou Chuckthomas?

I cant help but feel a sense of loss


----------



## IISinbadII

I don't understand why *chuckthomas* was banned. Since he came everyone was after him. Abusing him and his country, calling him names, etc. And than he was banned?????? Can anyone quote to me what he said wrong or break any rules.


----------



## sval

IISinbadII said:


> I don't understand why *chuckthomas* was banned. Since he came everyone was after him. Abusing him and his country, calling him names, etc. And than he was banned?????? Can anyone quote to me what he said wrong or break any rules.


He was quite simply a troll. his arguments had absolutely no relevanceto the forum since this is the Property Forum. If he had to do comparisons about UAE and US, he could have gone to Sky Majlis and did it there instead of cluttering the space here.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

IISinbadII said:


> I don't understand why *chuckthomas* was banned. Since he came everyone was after him. Abusing him and his country, calling him names, etc. And than he was banned?????? Can anyone quote to me what he said wrong or break any rules.


OK with me to unban him if he sticks to only posting in a Sky Majlis thread but I think he had other motives here.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai issues more work visas than it cancels - official

The number of working visas being issued in Dubai remains a “net positive” figure, despite anecdotal reports of huge numbers of expatriates fleeing the country, according to the chief economist in the Dubai government.

Raed Safadi told a meeting of the International Monetary Fund in Dubai on Sunday that the emirate issued 59,000 visas every month – which breaks down to almost 2,000 visas a day.

This figure “had come down in December”, Safadi admitted, but added that a net of 1,000 visas were issued every day in January.

His comments were sparked by media reports during the past three weeks that visas were being cancelled at a rate of 1,500 a day, amid claims that thousands of expatriates were leaving Dubai as a result of the global economic crisis.

“Yes, we have cancelled a lot, but at the same time a lot have been issued,” Safadi told the conference.

However, delegates called for more clarity from the government on such figures in the future, to prevent the spread of rumours.

“The problem here in the region is that the absence of regular official data is encouraging the generation of these rumours,” said Marios Maratheftis, regional head of research at Standard Chartered.

“People find it easier to come up with rumours because it is very difficult to get hold of the official number,” Maratheftis added.

Safadi admitted that government data needed to be made more readily available, stating that “in the data front we are not very forthcoming”.

This was due to “the simple reason that the mechanisms to produce these data are not in place”, he said.

“On a daily basis, we do not have the means to actually tell you that there are 500 new jobs being created in such and such sectors,” Safadi added.

“This is a dynamic economy - every single day there are hundreds of jobs being destroyed, but there are hundreds more that are being created."

Arabian Business has repeatedly asked the Dubai ministry of interior naturalisation and residency during the past three weeks for clarification on the number of visas being cancelled versus the number being issued on a daily basis. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/546094-more-work-visas-issued-than-cancelled---dubai


----------



## IISinbadII

sval said:


> He was quite simply a troll. his arguments had absolutely no relevanceto the forum since this is the Property Forum. If he had to do comparisons about UAE and US, he could have gone to Sky Majlis and did it there instead of cluttering the space here.


chuckthomas had several informative posts regarding his experience and trends in the US property market. Dubai is going through difficult times and knowledge of historic events in other markets helps Dubai property owners coup with the situation and predict future trends.


----------



## bizzybonita

Good time to buy property, Dubai agents say


February 09, 2009, 23:11

Dubai: The time is right to buy property in Dubai as the fall in house prices, especially in desirable locations such as Palm Jumeirah, spells good news for potential buyers, industry experts say.

"The Dubai real estate market is full of opportunities and this is a great time to buy as a number of projects are now ready and investors can get good real estate for reasonable prices. Investors can also get great rental yields, of up to eight per cent, which you will not find elsewhere," Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive of Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera), told Gulf News.

Property prices on Palm Jumeirah, developed by Nakheel, have fallen 50 per cent since September last year, according to sales agents PowerHouse Properties.

Four-bedroom garden homes on the Palm are now selling for as little as Dh6.5 million, down from peaks of Dh14 million in September 2008, agents said.

"We've seen a steady stream of bargain hunters in the market, shopping for these prestigious addresses, with many motivated primarily by price. Many end-users who previously could not afford to live on Palm Jumeirah are also now turning their attention to the bargains currently on offer," said Ian Hainey, Palm sales specialist at PowerHouse Properties.

Prices for Palm signature villas have also fallen, from about Dh30 million just six months ago, to around Dh15 million.

The fall in prices has resulted in an increase in potential buyers. There has been recent talk of 2009 being the year of the end user, especially for first-time buyers, who, until recently, had simply been priced out of the market.

"I think the Palm is starting to look very attractive. The price - from an aspiration level - I think people felt it was beyond them and now, with the correction and the price drop, it is starting to come into affordability," said Vincent Easton, sales director at Sherwoods Property Consultants.

For both end-users and investors who wish to rent out their property, now is a good time to buy.

"I don't think the bottom of the market is that far away. Now is a fantastic time [to buy] and not just for first-time buyers. People are starting to wonder when the right moment to come back into the market is," Easton added.

Easton said that in all the established areas, such as the Palm, Jumeirah Beach Residence and Discovery Gardens, there are average gross rental yields of 10 to 12 per cent.

Prices in these areas are also coming down, to as little as Dh800,000 in Discovery Gardens and around Dh1.5 million in Jumeirah Beach Residence.

"And people know they can take advantage of easy payment plans the developers are providing for ready properties. [This] is a winning long-term investment. Investors have a lot of choices, such as villas, flats, commercial, retail and island, so I truly believe in the future of this city," Bin Galita said.

Garden villas on the Palm rake in rentals of around Dh400,000 and furnished signature villas command rents of up to Dh1 million.

"As the crisis [moves] more into an equilibrium, you are finding more attractive investment yields and it makes it more interesting for people to invest in property and helps encourage more investment in the sector," said Blair Hagkull, managing director at Jones Lang LaSalle.

A Colliers International report showed property prices in Dubai dropped 8 per cent in the fourth quarter of 2008, the first quarterly decline since foreign ownership became legal in 2002.

The report also showed that sales volume dropped by 45 per cent over the last quarter.

Some Nakheel projects have been affected by the current downturn, including the one kilometre-high Harbour Hotel and Tower and the Trump International Hotel and Tower.

Getting a mortgage could be an issue for many salaried buyers, but not for all. A number of banks are still offering mortgages for buyers whose income is high.

http://gulfnews.com/business/General/10284104.html


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> OK with me to unban him if he sticks to only posting in a Sky Majlis thread but I think he had other motives here.


What other motives could he have???? 

Is he a real estate agent trying to talk down the market. Is Dubai market so weak that it could be shaken by a person posting on the net? I don't think so.


----------



## Imre

Press Release

*Over 111,000 residential units to be delivered in Dubai and Abu Dhabi by 2011*

Danube aims to leverage growing demand by homeowners and interior design specialists for top quality building materials

February 10, 2009

Over 111,000 residential units are expected to be delivered within Dubai and Abu Dhabi, with approximately 80,000 units to be completed in the most populous city in the UAE, and another 31,000 units to rise in the capital within the next two years, according to recent industry reports. With expectations of the same trend hitting the other emirates, including Sharjah, Ajman and Ras Al Khaimah, Danube Building Materials, the leader in construction, building materials and shop fitting industries, is anticipating an increased demand from homeowners as well as interior design specialists for top quality building materials. In line with this, the company is gearing up for the launch of a first-of-its-kind, customer-friendly retail complex in RAK, which will feature its products installed in an actual home set-up to allow for more convenient shopping.

Danube has long since identified the potential in establishing strong ties with its customers from each of the emirates by providing personalised services and high quality products to address their specific needs. The new RAK-based retail complex will be staffed with highly trained personnel, who can be of great assistance to end-users and even interior designers operating within the local markets. The retail complex has been designed to offer customers the widest range of products in addition to providing them with access to professional design advice.

”Spreading our facilities and showrooms across strategic locations in the Emirates is in line with our aims to leverage the high demand for building materials that match the stringent requirements of today’s clients,” said Rizwan Sajan, Chairman, Danube Building Materials. “We are fully committed to catering to the needs of a broad spectrum of customers within the UAE, including developers, contractors, end-users and homeowners, not only in terms of supplying top-quality construction materials but also by providing professional advice to help them choose the ideal products to use in their projects. We are looking forward to launching additional facilities in the country, as well as in other strategic locations within the region.”

Danube offers a wide range of building materials that facilitate various design options and cater to every budget, including kitchens, bathrooms, tiles, shower rooms, jacuzzis, flooring in ceramic and wood, ceilings, doors, wallpapers, designed glasses, marble, granite, wall panelling, different finishes of laminates, veneers, mouldings, paints and luxury paints. All of its products have passed environmental standards and are safe to use, in line with the implementation of green building codes within the majority of the emirates.

“As a leader in the construction material market, our strategy has always involved helping our customers acquire our products conveniently, which is why we are keen on setting up our facilities that can easily cater to their construction material needs. The current economic crisis had undoubtedly created tremendous obstacles for the construction sector, but we believe that with ingenuity and creativity, we will be able to ride this financial storm and regain the strength of the market. At present, we are focused on the start-up of our Ras Al Khaimah retail complex, and we are confident that this new endeavour will match the success we have seen across the UAE,” concluded Sajan.

Danube has recently inaugurated two new state-of-the-art facilities in Ajman and Al Quoz, wherein the company invested a total of AED 55 million as part of its regional expansion plans to address the demand for top-quality materials in the region. The AED 30 million facility in Ajman has a total area of 58,000 square feet and carries Danube’s most popular products, including wood, steel, aluminium, glass, and flooring. Furthermore, the manufacturer has made a decision to invest in a new factory in Al Quoz, which spans a total of 30,000 square feet.


----------



## Adel

Unban Mr Chuck please. I don't think he is a troll and some of what he says is relevant and useful.


----------



## Imre

got by email:



I called them now the rent cheaper, e.g. Oldtown, South Ridge 1 b/r for 135.000 AED/year, selling price still around 3 million.


----------



## luluprovence

Kindly unban chuckthomas. 

Understandably investment sentiment is at an all time high as the most of us would like to see Dubai prosper. Why? Due to our property investments. And also because they've built a life here with their family + friends + associates and so on. 

Therefore, just as Dubai boasts about having a multi-cultural background. So also should the multi-cultural views prevail. Understanding economies is required all the more now in this inherent situation so that we can all ride this - hopefully very shortish downturn - with some degree of success. 

Since there are a lot of experts here, it would be useful to focus on that expertise keeping in mind that most forumers' posts have something to offer and no one can know everything about anything - unless of course we are blessed to be working up there itself - and there is dialogue. Because obviously we cannot be conversing with just ourselves - yes it would be :lol:

If we view another post as being horrid or seen in a different light - because of the different prescription on our lenses - use your time to educate / advice or to learn. But getting in with the cookie crew and indulging in some hedonistic bashing is just not very civil. 

Hence my aforementioned request. 

Kindly unban chucktomas. 

Lulu


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## luluprovence

deleted


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## 234sale

Wannaberich said:


> Chuckthomas,Chuckthomas,where for art thou Chuckthomas?
> 
> I cant help but feel a sense of loss


We can arrange for you to join him... :lol:


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## rexdmx

^^ seriously though there was no need to ban him. he was stating his opinion to which responses could be given to him anyway


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## desertmaster

^^yeah Unban him ....he will learn to understand one fundamental point that you have to stay where your job is america is a very good place but w/o jobs you would be a begger standing in long kitchen lines waiting to get some soup free !!!


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## Liverpoolscally

Richard Head said:


> Dude is 4 posts in, none of which has added anything of value, and now he chooses to support the biggest troll in the forum, and to make matters worse he calls himself Liverpoolscally. Jesus what do people have to do to get banned these days?


Seems I am not the only one to support Chuck Richard.I apologise if my somewhat strong words hit a nerve but it is the way I feel after reading some of the comments here about the UK,particularly from yourself.Im sure Chuck felt the same.Yes I found your harsh judgements in earlier posts offensive,insensitive,selfish,typical of the many Expatriates I have met in Dubai who I genuinely believe have nothing better to do than try to convince each what a fantastic time they are having living out in the desert whilst visiting shopping Malls night after night.I am an invester Richard (what does `Richard Head`mean by the way??)and will try to keep on the topic from now on if I am not banned.


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## desertmaster

*Clean beach 'blue flag' scheme arrives in UAE*

Clean beach 'blue flag' scheme arrives in UAE
by Joanna Hartley Tuesday, 10 February 2009 

A clean beach scheme is to be launched in the UAE that will use the international ‘blue flag’ system to signify to bathers that their swimming spot is eco-friendly, it was announced on Tuesday.

The Emirates Wildlife Society (EWS-WWF) will be the national coordinator for the Blue Flag Programme across the UAE, which follows its acceptance as an associate member of the Foundation of Environmental Education, according to the WAM news agency.

Blue Flag, which started in 1987, is a voluntary eco-label acknowledged by the UN environment programme and the World Tourism Organisation, which has been awarded to over 3,200 beaches and marinas in 37 countries since it was launched.

To be awarded the blue flag, beaches and marinas must meet strict criteria on public health, safety, environmental education and management, issuing information for the public, decision makers and tourism operators.

It comes to the UAE after on-going concern over the dumping of raw sewage near the Emirate’s coast line. 

"The UAE has a beautiful coastline, extending over 1000 km. The Blue Flag programme would support the protection of this asset by presenting a platform of good public governance in the form of a certification in order to improve coastal facilities that are litter-free and boast a high recreational water quality, in addition to adequate beach users' safety services,” said Razan Khalifa Al Mubarak, managing director of EWS-WWF. 

A pilot phase involving at least one beach and marina will be launched by the EWS-WWF that will become a learning site for the rest of the country. 

All beaches and marinas seeking the Blue Flag certification will be subject to assessments and spot-checks from national, regional and international panels, coordinated by the FEE, a Denmark based NGO. 
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/546259-clean-beach-blue-flag-scheme-arrives-in-uae


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## desertmaster

*Rebuilding the dream*

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/545796-rebuilding-the-dream?start=0


Rebuilding the dream
by Joanne BladdThis email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it on Sunday, 08 February 2009 

zoomWhile the year ahead will be challenging for the UAE’s struggling construction market, a new report shows the industry is sturdier than its detractors think.

Once a mainstay of the national economy, the UAE's beleaguered construction industry faces an uncertain future. The market, staggering under a catastrophic real estate crash, is facing a make-or-break year with a new report showing that the fate of more than half of the country's 1,289 projects, worth $582bn, hangs in the balance.

The findings by Dubai-based market research firm Proleads reveal that of a $1.3 trillion-strong industry, only $698bn is still in operation on active projects - the rest is in limbo, dependent on the imminent recovery of the Emirates' troubled property market.

Story continues below ↓ 
advertisement



The small jobs, the less than $10m jobs, will continue. It’s the big developments that are harder hit because they’re inherently more risky.Anchored in a decade-long, debt-fuelled building spree, the construction industry's very foundations are under pressure. The collapse of the Gulf's overheated property markets has sent its biggest clients, developers and contractors, into freefall, with landmark projects suspended, job cuts rife and liquidity all but gone.

Some 180 projects in the real estate sector are on hold, the report shows, while projected cash flow - the marker of an industry's health - is set to drop 43 percent in the first quarter of 2009.

While real estate comprises a massive 74 percent of the UAE's construction portfolio, it is far from the only sector affected. Leisure and entertainment projects, the newest breed of hotels and hot spots dotting the country, have fallen as fast as tourist figures.

More than 25 developments are now on hold, a three fold increase on December's figures, with a predicted 40 percent decline in cash flow expected in the first quarter.

The report makes for grim reading. But while the year ahead will undeniably be difficult for the construction industry, there are also glimmers of hope, says Emil Rademeyer, director at Proleads.

The UAE's existing pool of work is unlikely to disappear, leaving a raft of future opportunities for contractors robust enough to wait out the storm and capitalise on the market's undoubted potential.

"There are delayed opportunities, in terms of the suspended contracts. The money involved - and it is billions and billions of dollars - is still there," he says. "We are still in a better position than the rest of the world, and the evidence is there that the market will turn."

Although overshadowed by the dramatic suspensions of iconic projects such as Nakheel's $900m Trump International Hotel and Tower, many smaller scale developments are still on track, Rademeyer adds.

"The small jobs, the less than $10m jobs, will continue. It's the big developments that are harder hit because they're inherently more risky."

The question is whether these low budget projects will be enough to fill contractors' order books. The cancellation by state-owned Meydan Group of its $1.3bn contract with Arabtec Construction and Malaysia's WCT Engineering to build the Nad Al Sheba racecourse, seemed a tipping point for industry sentiment, sparking fears that no projects would go ahead.

The flurry of suspensions that followed, however, including that of Sunland Group's $654m Atrium residential project in Dubai, is less a sign of a collapsing market and more a practical business strategy, argues analyst Ismail Sadek.

The severity of the downturn has shown that all bets are off, so companies are halting construction to conserve cash, Sadek, of Egyptian bank Beltone Financial, says.

"The whole industry has entered a phase of ‘wait and see'. Events have deteriorated the economy so severely that both the government and companies are holding for a rebound in the market."

But suspension is not synonymous with cancellation. The Proleads report shows only 1.5 percent of construction projects halted during 2008 and Jan 2009 went on to be cancelled. Of those that were written off, only a fraction - 0.9 percent - were shut without being placed on hold first.

So while the industry may not be growing, it is not necessarily shrinking either. Cash flow has declined but budgets have remained, meaning "the industry as a whole in mid-January 2009 is in the same financial position as it was in October 2008", the report says.

"If there is development on the ground, that project will resume at some point. What we have is a dormant market," says Rademeyer. This could change in the latter half of the year, however, as fewer new projects emerge to bolster the industry.


----------



## NAB

On another note, Nakheel also mentions that 70% of the services for JVS is done. If they delay providing the services (due to credit crunch) in JVS till first or second quarter of 2010, it would have a disastrous impact on completed properties.

Some projects like Le Grand Chateau (very few) are almost finished but would still require regular electricity, water, phone and sewage facilities - even the heavily advertised district cooling is still not done - so no air conditioning too...or could result in heavy maintenance charges due to most things being done by the developer (with the new RERA rule, developers will have to take the brunt - this could lead them to postpone construction completion till all master developer provided services are completed).

Ironically, the "on-time" developers will suffer along with their inivestors...

As baba said, handover of the appartments is one thing, staying or renting or selling is another....DSC / motor city seem to be quite ahead in terms of the infrastructure...


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## dbxdude

If you have 50k USD cash you are the one eyed man in the land of the blind, you are a king! budwa welcomes you (for one night only)


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## arfie

mackie1964 said:


> Are things that bad round here? you get banned for having $100k. What happens if you only have $50k :dunno:
> 
> 
> 
> Good job you are no longer an estate agent :lol:


After reading your posts thought it was time for a change


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## speculator

dbxdude said:


> Is there some sort of warning system about being banned, ie 2 written warnings for minor offenses? I only ask cause sometimes i go an have a laugh at the people you invested in projects in Ajman etc - makes me feel better about my Dubai and Abu Dhabi investments.... :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: although not much better these days :cheers:


To get the feel good factor move to the Ajman forum. Ill be busy there for a while! 

Chuck might even find me there. Spookey 1:crazy:


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## speculator

speculator said:


> To get the feel good factor move to the Ajman forum. Ill be busy there for a while!
> 
> Chuck might even find me there. Spookey 1:crazy:



Pheeew.....been there didnt get past the first page. Much more cosier here


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## speculator

Sound familiar...... Nice to know it not just Dubai developers who have issues.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gc-mH-ciw8uJxb2XGreDHlKPzLYQD9688EUO0


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## Imre

arfie said:


> Is the rental market really bad also ?


yes, very bad.


----------



## dubaigreen

Imre said:


> yes, very bad.


I have been looking around for 2 Months for renting a spacious Apartment (1800 sqft or more), and I have seen prices dropping every week.

Some examples:

(1) Big 2BR+M (2044 sqft) in Al Seef (JLT), started 215k in December, now advertised for 150k, so you might get it for 140k ! Quality is good in Al Seef, but location is not comparable with Marina, Shoreline or JBR.

(2) Big 3BR+M (1900 qft) in Murjan towers, JBR, high floor, good view. I was offered 180k with 2 cheques. They still advertise 3BR's in JBR around 220k, but nobody picks up at that price. I believe these 3BR's will end up around 170k. Not bad, as this is a nice location.

(3) ARY building, Dubai Marina, Marina view, 3BR+M (2800 Sft !), offered around 200k, they go for 190k. Reasonable location, walkable to Marina Mall.

(4) Many lower offers for 3BR on Zen tower, Manchester tower, DEC tower, etc.. but that is all low quality, in this market you can avoid these lower quality buildings, but very negotiable as they can not get rid of these apartments.

(5) Marina Terrace, big 3Br+M (1900 sqft), full marina view, high floor, tennis court, no construction noise around, nice quality, etc.. I have been offered 190k, 3 cheques, but they are advertised for 230k.

(6) Springs, 3BR+M. They are advertised between 170-240, but they go as low as 165k (Springs 12) to 190k (Springs 1), depending on view, close to Spinnach, etc..

(7) Greens, 3BR+M, 2000 sqft, they are advertised for 190-210k, but they go as low as 170k, depending on location.

(8) Palm shoreline, 3BR+M, 2100 sqft, road view, advertised between 200k-250k, they do not go below 200k on Beach side, but on Golden mile site, they go for 185k (as the lowest seen).

I will either take JBR or Marina Terrace, if I have to choose now, but I expect in 3 Months time even lower prices.

My view: these prices above seem reasonable, especially if you compare elsewhere. In a major city in Europe, you do not even get half of these prices, and than you also have to pay tax. So, landlords should not cry, they should be happy here, even if another 10% drop in prices appear.

Happy hunting
DB


----------



## shopoholic

Hi Everyone

Just moved to Dubai from London and have been following this forum for a while to get a jist of things to come. First of all "wow,wow,WOW", you cannot help but be stunned by Dubai!! It is Jaw-dropping stuff and I am not just talking about the weather. Skyscrapers you thought only existed in movies, CLEAN beaches (God know what the British Press were going on about), School which my Precious son loved from Day one (five star hotel buildings and teachers are so lovely) and of course SHOPPING which I could only dream about. Also main points:

1) People are moving to Dubai literally by the truckload. Our moving Company in Dubai confirmed this as did other relocation companies we asked for quotes from. Just ring them if you want to get an idea of this.

2) Dubai is buzzing and far from ghost town portrayed.

3) We did not find that their were masses of property on the market to rent. In fact we had to enter a race to get the property we wanted in a very popular area.

4) When you move from a crime ridden, depressing, grey and unambitious city where you see your hard earned tax is thrown by the government into a dark, dark hole and you find it hard to wake up each morning with inspiration. Dubai we love you..yes like the rest of the world it is in recession but cant think of a better place to be at the moment. 

Ps My Husband is an economist so I an not looking at everything in rose tinted spectacles. If my husband, who see a great future here (and trust be he is very hard to impress or convince) then yes I think things will work out ok here, just give it time.


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## 234sale

Welcome to the forum shopoholic...

Regards 234sale


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## bizzybonita

dubaigreen said:


> (4) Many lower offers for 3BR on Zen tower, Manchester tower, *DEC tower*, etc.. but that is all low quality, in this market you can avoid these lower quality buildings, but very negotiable as they can not get rid of these apartments.
> 
> DB


I never seen 3BR on DEC tower :dunno:


----------



## dubaigreen

Welcome indeed, good to see the rosy view of living in Dubai, it always has been 2 views, you either love 5-star buildings and shopping malls, or you hate to live here (and are looking for a real culture).

Regarding the race to get a property, clearly too rosy. In my search, as described above, I still have agents and landlords calling me for a decision, some of them being honest, that they need the money, living on the edge. Rents have come down dramatically, but still ok compared with 2 years ago.


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## dubaigreen

bizzybonita said:


> I never seen 3BR on DEC tower :dunno:


believe me, you do not want to


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## bizzybonita

^^ it's an open market you couldn't go for it but others do !

P.S seriously from where you got that 3BR from ? i saw the floor plan it doesn't exist my dear ...


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## southf

hno: Some people are trying to bring down the rent price unreasonably here... hno:


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## smussuw

Unreasonably? Rents should be half the current prices !


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## dubaigreen

Ok, may be I saw a 2BR in Dec tower, I can not 100% remember, but my report was a honest report of looking around for 2 Months. Some people know me, like Imre, and they know that I am not talking b*llsh*t.

If you can not take reality, keep on dreaming further that you can get more than 250k for a 3Br apartment


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## bizzybonita

^^ iam asking you a specific question not dreaming . i hope you can choice the right one for you're future home one advise be aware of Maintenance fees risky !


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## docc

smussuw said:


> Unreasonably? Rents should be half the current prices !


I can't agree more. I'd also like to add that original prices should also have been half of what they were!


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## skdubai

^^??? sarcastic? doesn't sound like you... thats y i ask....


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## googly

shopoholic said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> 1) People are moving to Dubai literally by the truckload. Our moving Company in Dubai confirmed this as did other relocation companies we asked for quotes from. Just ring them if you want to get an idea of this.


I have been told by real estate agents that for every 1 person moving to Dubai 4 are moving out (dont know where they get such stats). And this should get worse by May when the school year finishes. The moving company is doing good business by shifting people out of Dubai. :bash:

Smussuw's dream is coming true (less foreigners to deal with) while its a nightmare for all of us who dreamt about a great and booming Dubai. First the speculators got burnt and now those who invested in Dubai for the long haul (by renting out their apartments) are being taken for a ride. 

I hope the pain will be over soon so that we can once again be proud of being part of the Dubai phenomenon instead of being constantly told "I told you so" by anti-Dubai people.


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## Imre

*For Sale: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Goldcrest Views 2, *

Project Specification: 5 BP + G + 38,
Total Units: 438 Residential,
Sizes and Types: 
Studios- 318 sq/ft to 460sq/ft, 
1 Bedrooms- 731 sq/ft to 953 sq/ft, 
2 Bedrooms- 914 sq/ft to 1170sq/ft, 
3 Bedrooms - 1579 sq/ft to 1806 sq/ft, 
4 Bedroom Penthouse (Sky Villas)- 2691 sq/ft to 3185 sq/ft., 
Completion: 1st Quarter 2009, 
Construction Status: Glazing and Tiling Works. 
Facilities and Features: Ground floor- shopping and retail pace, High speed Internet facilities, High speed elevators, Excess to satellite TV, 24-hour concierge, State-of-the-art fitness club, Jacuzzi and Sauna, Sports bar and recreation area Business center & conference facilities, Postal delivery to postal apartment, Swimming pool.

http://www.gnads4u.com/doc.html?_a=view&id=5089045

http://imaging.gnads4u.com/images/000/030/599/814_4/orig.pdf

selling the whole tower again ? most of apartments already sold out


----------



## IISinbadII

shopoholic said:


> I have seen some of my hubbys trend chart for different countries. It charts past and future data. Now I am by no means an expert but even my young son can recognise the downward pattern in USA and UK- they look so extreme. Yes Dubai also has a downward trend at moment but given certain criteria the uptrend looks just as extreme. I will ask my husband to post his thoughts when he gets a sec.
> 
> Nobody can predict the future but as my husband says Fundamental and technical analysis always help and Dubai is not looking as bad as one might think.


What do the charts say about the bottom and when should we expect an up-turn?


----------



## smussuw

*RERA refutes media reports on Dubai real estate market*

WAM Dubai, 12th Feb. 2009 (WAM) -- Dubai Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) has denied receiving a letter signed by 300 real estate investors, developers and advocates expressing their concern over the fate of their investment in the Emirate of Dubai.

In their letter, they demanded RERA to immediately act before prices in the real estate market crashes, according to a report published by Zawya Dow Jones news website, which also blamed the RERA CEO of declining to comment on the issue. 

Marwan bin Ghalita, CEO of Dubai Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA), branded the news as absolutely untrue. ''Personally, I did neither receive a letter of this kind nor any call from the said news website or other,'' he affirmed in a statement to the Arabic daily Al Bayan.

According to him, local and foreign media outlets coordinate with RERA's Marketing, Communications and Media Department which also didn't get any call in that regard. ''We are adopting an open-door policy and any media outlet or investor can easily approach us.

He added that RERA could not have made any regulatory achievements in the real estate market if it had not been keeping regular contacts with developers, brokers and investors alike.

The Zawya Dow Jones news service also said the petitioners demanded RERA to take measures to bring the situation under control especially following the spell of financial investigations in several property companies, a move which raised questions about RERA standards.

Commenting on this, the RERA CEO said this point comes to serve interest of the investor, emphasising that :'' The investor should feel happy when he sees the authorities hit with an iron fist all those who put interests of the city and investors at risk. It's illogical that such a measure could feed concerns .......on the contrary it should send a message of confidence and assurance across the board. 

And this is what we have really sensed during our meetings with investors.
''Maintaining a well-regulated market that provides protection to all stakeholders is one of our top priorities,' he stressed.

He explained that RERA had, since its creation about one year ago, been taking tremendous efforts to regulate the real estate sector by issuing flexible regulations at bar with the highest possible level of transparency.

''Loss of investor's rights is a red line .........it has not happened and it will never happen in Dubai real estate market ........RERA has completed registration of developers and brokers at its records to preserve their rights.

''We understand the feelings of worry resulted from the impact of the global financial crisis but we are against the unjustifiable panic, exaggeration and hitting under the belt by some for the sake of making illegitimate ends,''he underscored.

Answering a question about a list being circulated on the internet about tens of cancelled or delayed developments, the RERA CEO affirmed ;''The list was not accurate and not true simply because it was not issued by RERA, Department of Lands or any official relevant body. Those behind the list are only seeking to raise fears and panic so as to make narrow gains.

He appealed to investors not to hesitate in calling RERA to know the update of any project. ''The investor can log on the RERA website to acquaint himself with the progress of the project he invests his money in instead of lending a sympathetic ear to rumours and baseless reports.

RERA, he noted, had recently conducted a blanket assessment of developers and developments carried in Dubai and demanded all investors to register their rights at the Lands Department so as to take legal procedures.

''We didn't announce any cancellation of projects especially those sold to investors and this is a stabilising factor which can contribute to further boosting confidence in the vibrant real estate market in Dubai.

Sending a message of assurance to investors, he said RERA will never allow developers to breach real estate laws especially the escrow account system.
WAM/TF


----------



## Naz UK

Oh, well that's alright then. He never received the petition. It's a real shame. It would have given him some insight into the past mistakes and oversights, from the "easily done" right down to the shockingly banal - and then he'd have had the opportunity to rectify them and make changes. But he never received the petition. Shame. 

I guess I could now just swear at his mother, and then claim I didnt know it was an immoral thing to do coz I never received my parent's advice about swearing, or that I didnt read the forum rules and never saw a single email from AltinD telling ppl you'll get banned for doing so. Shame.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/world/middleeast/12dubai.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp

*Laid-Off Foreigners Flee as Dubai Spirals Down *
*Bryan Denton for The New York Times*


DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — Sofia, a 34-year-old Frenchwoman, moved here a year ago to take a job in advertising, so confident about Dubai’s fast-growing economy that she bought an apartment for almost $300,000 with a 15-year mortgage. 

Now, like many of the foreign workers who make up 90 percent of the population here, she has been laid off and faces the prospect of being forced to leave this Persian Gulf city — or worse.

“I’m really scared of what could happen, because I bought property here,” said Sofia, who asked that her last name be withheld because she is still hunting for a new job. “If I can’t pay it off, I was told I could end up in debtors’ prison.” 

With Dubai’s economy in free fall, newspapers have reported that more than 3,000 cars sit abandoned in the parking lot at the Dubai Airport, left by fleeing, debt-ridden foreigners (who could in fact be imprisoned if they failed to pay their bills). Some are said to have maxed-out credit cards inside and notes of apology taped to the windshield. 

The government says the real number is much lower. But the stories contain at least a grain of truth: jobless people here lose their work visas and then must leave the country within a month. That in turn reduces spending, creates housing vacancies and lowers real estate prices, in a downward spiral that has left parts of Dubai — once hailed as the economic superpower of the Middle East — looking like a ghost town. 

No one knows how bad things have become, though it is clear that tens of thousands have left, real estate prices have crashed and scores of Dubai’s major construction projects have been suspended or canceled. But with the government unwilling to provide data, rumors are bound to flourish, damaging confidence and further undermining the economy.

Instead of moving toward greater transparency, the emirates seem to be moving in the other direction. A new draft media law would make it a crime to damage the country’s reputation or economy, punishable by fines of up to 1 million dirhams (about $272,000). Some say it is already having a chilling effect on reporting about the crisis. 

Last month, local newspapers reported that Dubai was canceling 1,500 work visas every day, citing unnamed government officials. Asked about the number, Humaid bin Dimas, a spokesman for Dubai’s Labor Ministry, said he would not confirm or deny it and refused to comment further. Some say the true figure is much higher.

“At the moment there is a readiness to believe the worst,” said Simon Williams, HSBC bank’s chief economist in Dubai. “And the limits on data make it difficult to counter the rumors.”

Some things are clear: real estate prices, which rose dramatically during Dubai’s six-year boom, have dropped 30 percent or more over the past two or three months in some parts of the city. Last week, Moody’s Investor’s Service announced that it might downgrade its ratings on six of Dubai’s most prominent state-owned companies, citing a deterioration in the economic outlook. So many used luxury cars are for sale , they are sometimes sold for 40 percent less than the asking price two months ago, car dealers say. Dubai’s roads, usually thick with traffic at this time of year, are now mostly clear. 

Some analysts say the crisis is likely to have long-lasting effects on the seven-member emirates federation, where Dubai has long played rebellious younger brother to oil-rich and more conservative Abu Dhabi. Dubai officials, swallowing their pride, have made clear that they would be open to a bailout, but so far Abu Dhabi has offered assistance only to its own banks.

“Why is Abu Dhabi allowing its neighbor to have its international reputation trashed, when it could bail out Dubai’s banks and restore confidence?” said Christopher M. Davidson, who predicted the current crisis in “Dubai: The Vulnerability of Success,” a book published last year. “Perhaps the plan is to centralize the U.A.E.” under Abu Dhabi’s control, he mused, in a move that would sharply curtail Dubai’s independence and perhaps change its signature freewheeling style. 

For many foreigners, Dubai had seemed at first to be a refuge, relatively insulated from the panic that began hitting the rest of the world last autumn. The Persian Gulf is cushioned by vast oil and gas wealth, and some who lost jobs in New York and London began applying here. 


But Dubai, unlike Abu Dhabi or nearby Qatar and Saudi Arabia, does not have its own oil, and had built its reputation on real estate, finance and tourism. Now, many expatriates here talk about Dubai as though it were a con game all along. Lurid rumors spread quickly: the Palm Jumeira, an artificial island that is one of this city’s trademark developments, is said to be sinking, and when you turn the faucets in the hotels built atop it, only cockroaches come out.

“Is it going to get better? They tell you that, but I don’t know what to believe anymore,” said Sofia, who still hopes to find a job before her time runs out. “People are really panicking quickly.” 

Hamza Thiab, a 27-year-old Iraqi who moved here from Baghdad in 2005, lost his job with an engineering firm six weeks ago. He has until the end of February to find a job, or he must leave. “I’ve been looking for a new job for three months, and I’ve only had two interviews,” he said. “Before, you used to open up the papers here and see dozens of jobs. The minimum for a civil engineer with four years’ experience used to be 15,000 dirhams a month. Now, the maximum you’ll get is 8,000,” or about $2,000. 

Mr. Thiab was sitting in a Costa Coffee Shop in the Ibn Battuta mall, where most of the customers seemed to be single men sitting alone, dolefully drinking coffee at midday. If he fails to find a job, he will have to go to Jordan, where he has family members — Iraq is still too dangerous, he says — though the situation is no better there. Before that, he will have to borrow money from his father to pay off the more than $12,000 he still owes on a bank loan for his Honda Civic. Iraqi friends bought fancier cars and are now, with no job, struggling to sell them. 

“Before, so many of us were living a good life here,” Mr. Thiab said. “Now we cannot pay our loans. We are all just sleeping, smoking, drinking coffee and having headaches because of the situation.”


----------



## christian875

Old Town Lovin... said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/world/middleeast/12dubai.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp
> 
> *Laid-Off Foreigners Flee as Dubai Spirals Down *
> *Bryan Denton for The New York Times*
> 
> 
> DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — Sofia, a 34-year-old Frenchwoman, moved here a year ago to take a job in advertising, so confident about Dubai’s fast-growing economy that she bought an apartment for almost $300,000 with a 15-year mortgage.
> 
> Now, like many of the foreign workers who make up 90 percent of the population here, she has been laid off and faces the prospect of being forced to leave this Persian Gulf city — or worse.
> 
> “I’m really scared of what could happen, because I bought property here,” said Sofia, who asked that her last name be withheld because she is still hunting for a new job. “If I can’t pay it off, I was told I could end up in debtors’ prison.”
> 
> With Dubai’s economy in free fall, newspapers have reported that more than 3,000 cars sit abandoned in the parking lot at the Dubai Airport, left by fleeing, debt-ridden foreigners (who could in fact be imprisoned if they failed to pay their bills). Some are said to have maxed-out credit cards inside and notes of apology taped to the windshield.
> 
> The government says the real number is much lower. But the stories contain at least a grain of truth: jobless people here lose their work visas and then must leave the country within a month. That in turn reduces spending, creates housing vacancies and lowers real estate prices, in a downward spiral that has left parts of Dubai — once hailed as the economic superpower of the Middle East — looking like a ghost town.
> 
> No one knows how bad things have become, though it is clear that tens of thousands have left, real estate prices have crashed and scores of Dubai’s major construction projects have been suspended or canceled. But with the government unwilling to provide data, rumors are bound to flourish, damaging confidence and further undermining the economy.
> 
> Instead of moving toward greater transparency, the emirates seem to be moving in the other direction. A new draft media law would make it a crime to damage the country’s reputation or economy, punishable by fines of up to 1 million dirhams (about $272,000). Some say it is already having a chilling effect on reporting about the crisis.
> 
> Last month, local newspapers reported that Dubai was canceling 1,500 work visas every day, citing unnamed government officials. Asked about the number, Humaid bin Dimas, a spokesman for Dubai’s Labor Ministry, said he would not confirm or deny it and refused to comment further. Some say the true figure is much higher.
> 
> “At the moment there is a readiness to believe the worst,” said Simon Williams, HSBC bank’s chief economist in Dubai. “And the limits on data make it difficult to counter the rumors.”
> 
> Some things are clear: real estate prices, which rose dramatically during Dubai’s six-year boom, have dropped 30 percent or more over the past two or three months in some parts of the city. Last week, Moody’s Investor’s Service announced that it might downgrade its ratings on six of Dubai’s most prominent state-owned companies, citing a deterioration in the economic outlook. So many used luxury cars are for sale , they are sometimes sold for 40 percent less than the asking price two months ago, car dealers say. Dubai’s roads, usually thick with traffic at this time of year, are now mostly clear.
> 
> Some analysts say the crisis is likely to have long-lasting effects on the seven-member emirates federation, where Dubai has long played rebellious younger brother to oil-rich and more conservative Abu Dhabi. Dubai officials, swallowing their pride, have made clear that they would be open to a bailout, but so far Abu Dhabi has offered assistance only to its own banks.
> 
> “Why is Abu Dhabi allowing its neighbor to have its international reputation trashed, when it could bail out Dubai’s banks and restore confidence?” said Christopher M. Davidson, who predicted the current crisis in “Dubai: The Vulnerability of Success,” a book published last year. “Perhaps the plan is to centralize the U.A.E.” under Abu Dhabi’s control, he mused, in a move that would sharply curtail Dubai’s independence and perhaps change its signature freewheeling style.
> 
> For many foreigners, Dubai had seemed at first to be a refuge, relatively insulated from the panic that began hitting the rest of the world last autumn. The Persian Gulf is cushioned by vast oil and gas wealth, and some who lost jobs in New York and London began applying here.
> 
> 
> But Dubai, unlike Abu Dhabi or nearby Qatar and Saudi Arabia, does not have its own oil, and had built its reputation on real estate, finance and tourism. Now, many expatriates here talk about Dubai as though it were a con game all along. Lurid rumors spread quickly: the Palm Jumeira, an artificial island that is one of this city’s trademark developments, is said to be sinking, and when you turn the faucets in the hotels built atop it, only cockroaches come out.
> 
> “Is it going to get better? They tell you that, but I don’t know what to believe anymore,” said Sofia, who still hopes to find a job before her time runs out. “People are really panicking quickly.”
> 
> Hamza Thiab, a 27-year-old Iraqi who moved here from Baghdad in 2005, lost his job with an engineering firm six weeks ago. He has until the end of February to find a job, or he must leave. “I’ve been looking for a new job for three months, and I’ve only had two interviews,” he said. “Before, you used to open up the papers here and see dozens of jobs. The minimum for a civil engineer with four years’ experience used to be 15,000 dirhams a month. Now, the maximum you’ll get is 8,000,” or about $2,000.
> 
> Mr. Thiab was sitting in a Costa Coffee Shop in the Ibn Battuta mall, where most of the customers seemed to be single men sitting alone, dolefully drinking coffee at midday. If he fails to find a job, he will have to go to Jordan, where he has family members — Iraq is still too dangerous, he says — though the situation is no better there. Before that, he will have to borrow money from his father to pay off the more than $12,000 he still owes on a bank loan for his Honda Civic. Iraqi friends bought fancier cars and are now, with no job, struggling to sell them.
> 
> “Before, so many of us were living a good life here,” Mr. Thiab said. “Now we cannot pay our loans. We are all just sleeping, smoking, drinking coffee and having headaches because of the situation.”



I remember seeing posts (on other threads) about Dubai / Emiratis not needing Expats to keep the place going...but I beg to differ. Once you have the Expats leave this place, it will definitely be a Ghost Town.


----------



## smussuw

^^ I never heard this from any Emirati, ever :dunno:


----------



## christian875

smussuw said:


> ^^ I never heard this from any Emirati, ever :dunno:


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=777366&page=10


----------



## AltinD

christian875 said:


> I remember seeing posts (on other threads) about Dubai / Emiratis not needing Expats to keep the place going...but I beg to differ. Once you have the Expats leave this place, it will definitely be a Ghost Town.


Stay out of here!


----------



## smussuw

^^ I think I should too :runaway:



christian875 said:


> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=777366&page=10


If you are referring to monymoe: 1) he is not an Emirati and 2) he said they are replaceable, he didn't say we can live without them.


----------



## nisha

shopoholic said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> Hubby is busy doing trend charts and "has his fundamental and technical hats on" (his words not mine) at the moment
> 
> Being the sort of person he is, he read with all seriousness, but found some of the posts to be highly sentiment driven without hard facts and found that is one of the problems here.
> 
> I have seen some of my hubbys trend chart for different countries. It charts past and future data.
> 
> Nobody can predict the future but as my husband says Fundamental and technical analysis always help and Dubai is not looking as bad as one might think.
> 
> -


Where does your husband get his "hard facts" and "past and future data" for his "fundamental and technical analysis" on Dubai from?


----------



## Imre

*Microsoft oil bosses to shift to Dubai *


Dubai: US software giant Microsoft said on Wednesday said it has moved the company's top bosses for the global oil and gas industry business to Dubai in recognition of the city's position as a strategic commercial hub.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Oil_and_Gas/10284890.html


----------



## desertmaster

*Anyone REMEMBER THIS ??? READ CAREFULLY ....*

Below is the first report with reference to what we are hearing now and what has been reported by irresponsible journalists in the media. although it is still 11 cars vs 22 cars at the airport !!!! 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/543135-bank-loan-skips-double-in-2008

Bank loan 'skips' double in 2008
by Andy SambidgeThis email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it on Saturday, 10 January 2009 

More than 3,000 cars were abandoned by owners in the UAE in 2008 to escape loan payments - more than double the 2007 figure - as the impact of the global economic crisis took its toll.

According to a senior police official, 3,241 cars were claimed by the banks in Dubai, compared to 1,450 cars the previous year - a 123 per cent increase.

Banks are now trying to claim some of their money back by selling them at auctions or through car dealerships.
“Under the current financial situation, people who do not have the means may decide this is their only way out,” said Col Saif Muhair Al Mazrouei, deputy director of traffic department at Dubai Police in comments published by UAE daily The National on Saturday.

“The person could be arrested on his way in or out of the country,” Mazrouei told the paper. “They will not be able to return to the country before paying off any impending debts.”

Police recently removed 22 cars dumped at Dubai International Airport after owners fled the country leaving a trail of debt behind. Cars have also been abandoned at Abu Dhabi International Airport.

A UAE bank official, who requested anonymity, told the paper that people who dumped their cars and fled the country were known as “skips”.

“This isn’t unusual here,” he said. “A lot of times people just leave. You get a credit card and loans and then you lose your job. What to do? Go home. It’s something that all banks are facing."


----------



## AltinD

^^ This is not a new article. Everyone in his right mind knew that the number 3000 is the number of cars repossesed and not of those abandoned in the Airport's carpark.


----------



## desertmaster

AltinD said:


> ^^ This is not a new article. Everyone in his right mind knew that the number 3000 is the number of cars repossesed and not of those abandoned in the Airport's carpark.


that is exactly what i am saying to all those not in the right mind in this forum and who read this forum and to those journalists mainly of the western media who excercising journalism NOT IN THIER RIGHT MIND !!


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> WAM Dubai, 12th Feb. 2009 (WAM) -- Dubai Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) has denied receiving a letter signed by 300 real estate investors, developers and advocates expressing their concern over the fate of their investment in the Emirate of Dubai.
> 
> In their letter, they demanded RERA to immediately act before prices in the real estate market crashes, according to a report published by Zawya Dow Jones news website, which also blamed the RERA CEO of declining to comment on the issue.
> 
> Marwan bin Ghalita, CEO of Dubai Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA), branded the news as absolutely untrue. ''Personally, I did neither receive a letter of this kind nor any call from the said news website or other,'' he affirmed in a statement to the Arabic daily Al Bayan.
> 
> According to him, local and foreign media outlets coordinate with RERA's Marketing, Communications and Media Department which also didn't get any call in that regard. ''We are adopting an open-door policy and any media outlet or investor can easily approach us.
> 
> He added that RERA could not have made any regulatory achievements in the real estate market if it had not been keeping regular contacts with developers, brokers and investors alike.
> 
> The Zawya Dow Jones news service also said the petitioners demanded RERA to take measures to bring the situation under control especially following the spell of financial investigations in several property companies, a move which raised questions about RERA standards.
> 
> Commenting on this, the RERA CEO said this point comes to serve interest of the investor, emphasising that :'' The investor should feel happy when he sees the authorities hit with an iron fist all those who put interests of the city and investors at risk. It's illogical that such a measure could feed concerns .......on the contrary it should send a message of confidence and assurance across the board.
> 
> And this is what we have really sensed during our meetings with investors.
> ''Maintaining a well-regulated market that provides protection to all stakeholders is one of our top priorities,' he stressed.
> 
> He explained that RERA had, since its creation about one year ago, been taking tremendous efforts to regulate the real estate sector by issuing flexible regulations at bar with the highest possible level of transparency.
> 
> ''Loss of investor's rights is a red line .........it has not happened and it will never happen in Dubai real estate market ........RERA has completed registration of developers and brokers at its records to preserve their rights.
> 
> ''We understand the feelings of worry resulted from the impact of the global financial crisis but we are against the unjustifiable panic, exaggeration and hitting under the belt by some for the sake of making illegitimate ends,''he underscored.
> 
> Answering a question about a list being circulated on the internet about tens of cancelled or delayed developments, the RERA CEO affirmed ;''The list was not accurate and not true simply because it was not issued by RERA, Department of Lands or any official relevant body. Those behind the list are only seeking to raise fears and panic so as to make narrow gains.
> 
> He appealed to investors not to hesitate in calling RERA to know the update of any project. ''The investor can log on the RERA website to acquaint himself with the progress of the project he invests his money in instead of lending a sympathetic ear to rumours and baseless reports.
> 
> RERA, he noted, had recently conducted a blanket assessment of developers and developments carried in Dubai and demanded all investors to register their rights at the Lands Department so as to take legal procedures.
> 
> ''We didn't announce any cancellation of projects especially those sold to investors and this is a stabilising factor which can contribute to further boosting confidence in the vibrant real estate market in Dubai.
> 
> Sending a message of assurance to investors, he said RERA will never allow developers to breach real estate laws especially the escrow account system.
> WAM/TF


A petition is a great idea.Maybe someone could organise an on-line version which could be emailed to the relevant people?Details could be posted on any forum to do with Dubai which would generate many signings.
Anyone out there know how to do that?


----------



## Imre

*Outgoing managing director arrested *


Dubai: Matt Joyce, the former managing director of Dubai Waterfront, has been arrested as part of an investigation into corruption allegations, Gulf News has learnt.

An Australian, Joyce, recently made redundant from Nakheel, was supposed to be leaving the company in April, according to a company circular.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/General/10284855.html


----------



## Imre

*Emaar Properties records 2008 annual net operating profit of AED 5.578 billion (US$ 1.519 billion) *


Dubai, UAE; February 12, 2009: Global property developer Emaar Properties PJSC has recorded annual net operating profits of AED 5.578 billion (US$ 1.519 billion) in 2008, 15 per cent lower than the net operating profits of AED 6.575 billion (US$ 1.790 billion) in 2007. Annual revenue was lower by 10 per cent to AED 16.015 billion (US$ 4.360 billion), from AED 17.869 billion (US$ 4.865 billion) in 2007. Earnings per share for the year relating to profit from operating activities in 2008 was AED 0.92 (US$ 0.25) compared to AED 1.08 (US$ 0.29) in the previous financial year.

Following the policy of conservative accounting, the Company recorded an inventory write down AED 0.919 billion (US$ 0.250 billion) relating to real estate inventory in J L Homes, US in the fourth quarter of 2008, where the economy is facing an unprecedented economic crisis. The Company recorded a profit of AED 0.924 billion (US$ 0.252 billion) prior to considering the aforementioned inventory write down in the fourth quarter and recorded a profit of AED 6.662 billion (US$ 1.814 billion) for the year prior to considering the total inventory write down during 2008. The lower revenue of AED 3.495 billion (US$ 0.952 billion) and operating profit of AED 0.924 billion (US$ 0.252 billion) for the fourth-quarter (October to December) 2008 (prior to considering the impact of inventory write down) has resulted in lower overall results for the year 2008. This is primarily due to slowing down of the real estate market in Dubai resulting from the current state of the global financial climate.

Emaar is concentrating on completing all the projects, which have commenced construction and have put new projects/ launches on hold to assist in reducing the real estate property supply in Dubai. The new launches in 2009 will be dependent on the review of the demand and supply situation at various income segment levels.

In view of the unprecedented slow down in the US real estate market, Emaar also decided to write down its investment in J L Homes by a total of AED 1.773 billion (US$ 0.483 billion) during the fourth quarter in order to be conservative in accounting for such an investment. This has resulted in the complete goodwill amount of AED 2.523 billion (US$ 0.687 billion) relating to J L Homes having been written off during 2008.

Mr Mohamed Alabbar, Chairman, Emaar Properties, said: “The primary focus of Emaar in the last quarter of the year was to mitigate the negative impact of the global financial crisis by facing up to the new economic realities and identifying innovative strategies to sustain businesses in an unprecedented downturn. We have placed emphasis on optimising resource use efficiency and maximising productivity, and will continue to build on our strategy of business segmentation and geographic expansion.”

He added: “This will continue to be our business approach in 2009 too, as we continuously strive to maximize shareholder value. Our expansion into other countries and new businesses including shopping malls, hospitality & leisure and education gained traction in 2008. We are thankful to our shareholders, who placed their unwavering trust in our efforts to maintain long-term sustainability.”

Mr Alabbar said that Emaar’s strategic growth objectives have been complemented by the initiatives of the Dubai Government under the leadership of His Highness Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, UAE Vice President & Prime Minister and Ruler of Dubai. “Rising up to face the economic concerns and boost market confidence, His Highness Sheikh Mohammed initiated several measures including the setting up of The Advisory Council, a high-level committee that will evaluate and recommend policies for economic growth. The Dubai Government is also focused on encouraging public spending and infrastructure development, which will in turn boost the property sector in the coming months.”

Business consolidation: 
Emaar Properties marked year 2008 with several milestones in its growth including the opening of The Dubai Mall, one of the world’s largest shopping and entertainment destinations, and The Address, Downtown Burj Dubai, the first hotel brand to be owned and operated by Emaar.

Emaar also opened the Dubai Marina Mall and Dubai Marina Yacht Club, further additions to the company’s shopping malls and hospitality & leisure portfolio. This year, Emaar will open two hotels – The Address, Dubai Mall and The Address, Dubai Marina. “The emphasis on our new businesses also highlights our commitment to create integrated, self-sustaining neighbourhoods that energise the economy,” said Mr Alabbar. “Our varied projects have created several hundred direct and indirect jobs, thus assisting the economy during a crucial phase.”

*In Dubai, Emaar is progressing with the construction of Burj Dubai, which will open this year. “Revisiting the project pipeline is a natural response to the new economic realities. We have also been negotiating with our partners to rationalize the project cost benefiting our shareholders and customers,” added Mr Alabbar.*

Taking a thought-leadership role in strengthening investor confidence, Emaar had announced the ‘To Own’ scheme featuring the ‘Plan to Own’ and ‘Rent to Own,’ programmes - both of which have enabled customers to own property under more affordable terms within Emaar’s world-class master-planned communities in Dubai.

Strategic partnerships:
The 11-year-old company also strengthened its long-term growth goals through strategic partnerships locally and internationally. One of the highlights of year 2008 was the Memorandum of Understanding signed between Emaar Misr for Development, Emaar’s Egyptian subsidiary, and the Abu Dhabi Municipality to develop the 2.2 million sq m Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Residential City in Cairo. The social housing project also marks Emaar’s all-encompassing development approach of meeting the lifestyle needs of all sections of the society.

Emaar also entered into a joint venture agreement with His Royal Highness Prince Meshal Bin AbdulAziz Al Saud, Chairman of Saudi Arabia’s Bayah Council, and owner of Al-Shoala Group of Establishment, to develop a 31 million sq m master-planned community, Rawabi Rumah, located near Riyadh.

Mr Alabbar said: “These global partnerships are an indication of the forward looking policies that govern the growth of Emaar. We are committed to enhancing value for all our stakeholders, and will look at building the company’s success further through innovation, by leveraging the opportunities that co-exist with current challenges.”
(Emaar.com)


----------



## peacesells

shopoholic said:


> Hubby is busy doing trend charts and "has his fundamental and technical hats on" (his words not mine) at the moment but I did show him a couple of pages of the recent forum posts.


You know who is really annoying and a stereotypical Jumeirah Jane? It's YOU. Looking forward to see your husband's expertly crafted charts showing us a path of sunshine and free money. :banana:


----------



## peacesells

Old Town Lovin... said:


> Mr. Thiab was sitting in a Costa Coffee Shop in the Ibn Battuta mall, where most of the customers seemed to be single men sitting alone, dolefully drinking coffee at midday. If he fails to find a job, he will have to go to Jordan, where he has family members — Iraq is still too dangerous, he says — though the situation is no better there. Before that, he will have to borrow money from his father to pay off the more than $12,000 he still owes on a bank loan for his Honda Civic. Iraqi friends bought fancier cars and are now, with no job, struggling to sell them.
> 
> “Before, so many of us were living a good life here,” Mr. Thiab said. “Now we cannot pay our loans. We are all just sleeping, smoking, drinking coffee and having headaches because of the situation.”


So let's see. He's an engineer of questionable quality who led a life of excess and overextended himself financially and now is spending his whole day in Costa Coffee. Good riddance. There's jobs and business out there people, you just need to be a little more creative these days in finding it.


----------



## nisha

shopoholic said:


> Good Morning Nisha
> 
> What if a really believe that Dubai can pull through and come out of this?What if a really do like Dubai? So what if I like shopping and I spend and live within my means? How is that looking through rose tinted glasses?
> 
> I enjoy life and all its challenges and privileges. Do forgive me if I am wrong but I take it from your previous posts that you are from the banking/financial world. *Quite frankly with people like you working in it with that kind of attitude, only confirms why the world is in such a mess right now and will be even harder to resolve.*
> 
> Elizabeth Victoria 1 from Emirates Hills x


I was referring to MYSELF not you, in my earlier post. So don't make this personal. But since you have, let me give it back in good measure.

I didn't say you were wearing rose tinted glasses, in retrospect I now think you're wearing 100% blacked out tinted glasses. You may need that cane to guide you soon.

Who needs bankers/politicians to make a mess when we have enough ignorant people who still believe there is no problem in Dubai based on their husband's doodling. Technical charts, yeah right, analysis based on sound fundamental and reliable data in Dubai - what a joke. 

Emirates Hills, ha ha - am I supposed to be impressed? Living within your means? I can suss the likes of you out from a mile. Debts up to your eyeballs, maxed out cards, brunches and getting drunk..the list goes on.

BTW I like Dubai too but just not people like you who live here:lol:


----------



## Wannaberich

nisha said:


> I was referring to MYSELF not you, in my earlier post. So don't make this personal. But since you have, let me give it back in good measure.
> 
> I didn't say you were wearing rose tinted glasses, in retrospect I now think you're wearing 100% blacked out tinted glasses. You may need that cane to guide you soon.
> 
> Who needs bankers/politicians to make a mess when we have enough ignorant people who still believe there is no problem in Dubai based on their husband's doodling. Technical charts, yeah right, analysis based on sound fundamental and reliable data in Dubai - what a joke.
> 
> Emirates Hills, ha ha - am I supposed to be impressed? Living within your means? I can suss the likes of you out from a mile. Debts up to your eyeballs, maxed out cards, brunches and getting drunk..the list goes on.
> 
> BTW I like Dubai too but just not people like you who live here:lol:


Claws away girls.Here me make love not war.
:lovethem:


----------



## HateTorch

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ www.Gnads4u.com


Got it, thanks.
These 2/3/4 BRs were all published within these past few days.
My uneducated guess is that the hotel aprt company there is not getting the required level of income, thus they are now renting out long term instead.

Can't wait to go back to see how things are back home ...


----------



## nisha

Wannaberich said:


> Claws away girls.Here me make love not war.
> :lovethem:


 girls.....I'm an :angel1: honest Guv


----------



## luluprovence

----


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Even Dubai Shopping Festival is feeling effects of economic slump

Retailers have complained that fewer customers are entering and spending in their shops and that the number of tourists has declined. Shopkeepers informally estimated that their sales are down between 20% and 50%.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-dubai-festival13-2009feb13,0,365665.story


----------



## Wannaberich

luluprovence said:


> hi forrummyrrhs,
> any news on the stimulus package that was in the pipeline and has yet to be announced by the Dubai government?


Errr,what stimulus package?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think this was Dubai's stimulus package:


----------



## Wannaberich

Now this is what I call a stimulus package.
She can stimulate me any day,or night.:nuts:


----------



## mission

Imre said:


> rent 105-110K , still good rental income , cheapest is 950K if you want to buy.
> 
> you can find more details here
> 
> http://www.gnads4u.com/properties




Imre you have seen my flat. I have it rented out for 95k and the tenancy is due to finish at the end of April. Tried to ring the tenant with no answer and better homes are crap. Do you think i could easily rent it out again for 95k or do i need to drop it to get a tenant asap????


----------



## Imre

Bobby G said:


> If a project hasnt started in about 6 months, then can an investor claim refund from THE land department?


where did you read or find this one?

I have heard the same but I think no one keeps this rule , if its a rule.


----------



## Imre

mission said:


> Imre you have seen my flat. I have it rented out for 95k and the tenancy is due to finish at the end of April. Tried to ring the tenant with no answer and better homes are crap. Do you think i could easily rent it out again for 95k or do i need to drop it to get a tenant asap????


for 95K you will get a tenant , that is still realistic price.


----------



## FWIW

Anyone watching UK Bank Shares today? Anyone got any Lloyds shares?

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=LLOY.L&t=1d

Yeah, Dubai is in the s**t but so is everywhere else...


----------



## Naz UK

^^ Yes and Yes, got in at 60, sold some at 100+ but still keeping onto a few, dunno, just call it a hunch.


----------



## shopoholic

nisha said:


> I was referring to MYSELF not you, in my earlier post. So don't make this personal. But since you have, let me give it back in good measure.
> 
> I didn't say you were wearing rose tinted glasses, in retrospect I now think you're wearing 100% blacked out tinted glasses. You may need that cane to guide you soon.
> 
> Who needs bankers/politicians to make a mess when we have enough ignorant people who still believe there is no problem in Dubai based on their husband's doodling. Technical charts, yeah right, analysis based on sound fundamental and reliable data in Dubai - what a joke.
> 
> Emirates Hills, ha ha - am I supposed to be impressed? Living within your means? I can suss the likes of you out from a mile. Debts up to your eyeballs, maxed out cards, brunches and getting drunk..the list goes on.
> 
> BTW I like Dubai too but just not people like you who live here:lol:


^^Err I was being sarcastic about Emirates Hills...lost your sense of humour too? 

Sorry to disappoint but I am well aware of what is going on but do not see this as the end...it is as simple as that.


----------



## IISinbadII

luluprovence said:


> hi forrummyrrhs,
> any news on the stimulus package that was in the pipeline and has yet to be announced by the Dubai government?


Stimulus Package!!!!!!! you want govt to give money to the banks so that they could lend it again to speculators to start flipping????

Lending was the root cause of the mess we are in now... lending can't be the solution.

Besides the Sheiks have lost a lot of money in their overseas investments and banks already have a lot of exposure to the property sector. So what stops them from sitting on the sides while supply and demand economics take its natural course.


----------



## Richard Head

Naz UK said:


> ^^ Yes and Yes, got in at 60, sold some at 100+ but still keeping onto a few, dunno, just call it a hunch.


Naz, I can't see anywhere on that graph where you could have got in at 60 and got out at 100+, please can you elaborate? If i'm reading it right Lloyds dropped from 95 to 55 in under an hour today. What the hell caused that?


----------



## Wannaberich

Stimulus package ?
http://www.dubaichronicle.com/business/economy/uae-proposes-fresh-initiatives-to-tackle-crisis-4790


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Stimulus package ?
> http://www.dubaichronicle.com/business/economy/uae-proposes-fresh-initiatives-to-tackle-crisis-4790


Old news. Committees, everybleedingwhere.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai's six-year building boom grinds to halt as financial crisis takes hold
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/13/dubai-boom-halt


----------



## NAB

Lawns IV and V as per DEC website (what i assumed when i was on site was right)


----------



## jeetha

*absolutely brilliant*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZlh...ickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?post=82718


----------



## NAB

just providing the link as i do not have the rights to post attachments on this thread....

http://www.dheerajeastcoast.com/content/cudetail.aspx?CUID=64


----------



## speculator

AppleMac said:


> Loved the bit about renting the villa - last year it went for £90,000 a year, this year it's 'only' £60,000 :nuts:
> 
> Well thats it then - Dubai's finished if you can only get £60k a year for your villa...:bash:


Thats another article full of bulloney. I think its the same article written 6 years ago by this guy but recently edited.

I like the bit about the air waitress saying im glad i didnt buy. Would she ever have anyway.


----------



## Money2Burn

I know an emirates cabin crew that bought a 1BR, why wouldnt they be able to buy?


----------



## V Kapoor

I am surprised there is a gap of more than SIX hours between posts 13941 and 13942!!!
on this thread?!

Whats wrong? Where is everybody?! Where are the missing pages?!


----------



## Imre

V Kapoor said:


> I am surprised there is a gap of more than SIX hours between posts 13941 and 13942!!!
> on this thread?!
> 
> Whats wrong? Where is everybody?!


it was full of rubbish , I think moderators deleted :banana:


----------



## High Times

V Kapoor said:


> I am surprised there is a gap of more than SIX hours between posts 13941 and 13942!!!
> 
> on this thread?!
> 
> 
> 
> Whats wrong? Where is everybody?! Where are the missing pages?!


 
Well just read through the last few pages.

This thread is in itself testament to the state of the Dubai real estate market.

The downward spiral in the market seems to have a direct correlation to the amount of bullshit being posted here.

The sensible people left the building a long time ago (with a couple of exceptions).


----------



## V Kapoor

^^I thought so.....


----------



## malec

High Times said:


> Well just read through the last few pages.
> 
> This thread is in itself testament to the state of the Dubai real estate market.
> 
> The downward spiral in the market seems to have a direct correlation to the amount of bullshit being posted here.


Exactly :cheers:


----------



## Mistermark

Morrismarina said:


> Agree entirely Mistermark, I never understood at all why Lloyds wanted HBOS it's a complete basket case. Why bring a half decent bank like Loyds down as well. I wonder who engineered it all.........oh I forgot, it was Gordon Clown........our unelected leader !!
> 
> Can't see Eric Daniels and Victor Blank lasting long, Lloyds shareholders are going to go for them very soon. No wonder Daniels is forgoing his bonus, he's sold Lloyds shareholders right down the river. I agree lots more writedowns to come from the HBOS side of the business. The Lloyds takeover will be proven to be a complete disaster (well for Lloyds anyway) and will take may years to turn this around.


I suspect it was a case of 'the carrot and the stick'. The carrot is knighthoods, places in the house of Lords, on quangos etc - anything they want, basically. So, come what may, the individuals concerned will do fine. The stick was the collapse of confidence in the UK banking sector.


----------



## Morrismarina

Mistermark said:


> The carrot is knighthoods, places in the house of Lords, on quangos etc - anything they want, basically. So, come what may, the individuals concerned will do fine.


Only so long as we have a Labour Government. There again I doubt even these favours will happen, now that the chickens are comming home to roost. Crosby fired from the FSA etc.

Less than 18 months to go now to the election and then we can have the Bank of England regulating the banks again. Shame all the damage has been done though. Perhaps the Tories will kill off the FSA as well, another one of Brown's failed ideas. Let's get back to the PIA, SIB and Lautro........and PEP's and Tessa's.......remember them ?? :banana:


----------



## London2Manila

For an investment thread, there is a paucity of discussion about current 'real' psf prices for various areas and the pros/cons of various developments.


----------



## THEPOINT

High Times said:


> Well just read through the last few pages.
> 
> This thread is in itself testament to the state of the Dubai real estate market.
> 
> The downward spiral in the market seems to have a direct correlation to the amount of bullshit being posted here.
> 
> The sensible people left the building a long time ago (with a couple of exceptions).


Well said HT - I'm in for long term -- shorterm gloomists (is that a word ??) 
on this thread thesedays


----------



## bjassin

*Anyone know anything about Al Fajer Properties??*

This was published in the Wall St. Journal:


REAL ESTATE FEBRUARY 14, 2009 A Dubai Deal Called Into Question as Boom Ends 

By MARGARET COKER

DUBAI -- Amid the movers and shakers of this glittering city, Shahram Abdullah Zadeh cut a wide swathe. He cruised around town in a white Bentley and dined with royalty as his company developed one of the emirate's premier office complexes.

But last February, a phone call from Dubai's state security effectively ended it all.


Shahram Abdullah Zadah
Hauled in and locked up for 60 days, Mr. Zadeh says he was interrogated about his role in Dubai's freewheeling real-estate sector and his business relationship with the brother-in-law of Dubai's ruler, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum. When released, Mr. Zadeh says he had been frozen out of the real-estate company he had helped start.

Mr. Zadeh's experience, compiled though court and company documents, offers a rare window into the murky business world that helped transform this city from an empty coastline into a metropolis. It also may offer a cautionary tale for investors lured to the city, which bills itself as the modern face of a new Middle East. Dubai is one of seven semi-autonomous emirates that make up the United Arab Emirates.

The U.S. government and human-rights groups have long criticized the judicial system in the U.A.E for a lack of independence and oversight. In the good times, investors didn't fret much about these shortcomings. Now, some of the same deals that helped build Dubai are coming undone -- in particular, a tradition of off-the-book business partnerships between Emirati citizens and elite expatriates like Mr. Zadeh, who was born in Iran.

Mr. Zadeh claims his detention came after a business dispute with his partner at Al Fajer Properties, Sheikh Hasher bin Juma'a Al Maktoum and his son, Sheikh Maktoum bin Hasher al Maktoum. Both men are members of the extended family of Dubai's ruler, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum. Mr. Zadeh alleges the two men took control of the firm while he was in custody, according to a lawsuit he filed with Dubai's public prosecution office last year.

Mr. Zadeh has not been charged with a crime. But for the past year, authorities have held onto his passport, making it impossible for him to travel or find work.

"I used to believe in the miracle of Dubai. But now I see it all as a mirage," said Mr. Zadeh, 37. Sheikh Hasher denies any wrongdoing. He says he was not responsible for Mr. Zadeh's jailing and that he removed him from the company because Dubai authorities said he had offered bribes, an allegation Mr. Zadeh denies.

"I don't need to defend my reputation. He does," Sheikh Hasher said in a telephone interview. "This man is crazy. He is a crook with a sweet tongue."


Al Fajer Properties
Shahram Abdullah Zadeh's planned $750-million development (shown in an artist's rendering) with Al Fajer Properties in Dubai ran into turbulence.
Some of Mr. Zadeh's claims are impossible to verify independently. His only copy of the real-estate partnership agreement is missing, and official company documents show the Sheikh Hasher as sole owner. Dubai's security services, the public prosecutors' office and the Dubai ruler's court all either declined to comment or didn't respond to repeated requests for comment.

Last fall, the Emirates' Human Rights Association, a government body, wrote to authorities asking for an explanation about why Mr. Zadeh's passport was being held. The group did not receive any response, according to his lawyers.

Mr. Zadeh grew up in Dubai, attending school with the children of some of the city's top families. He managed his family's hotel and retail holdings and decided to go into business himself in 2000. Real-estate development was off limits to foreigners, even longtime residents like himself. So, he turned to a common practice -- a silent partnership with a U.A.E. citizen.

Typically, such partnerships involve an Emirati acquiring a business license and then granting his foreign partner management control. The foreigner either pays an annual fee to the Emirati or the two share profits. The terms are set forth in a parallel set of documents, separate from those submitted to the government. Such contracts are so common that courts here have upheld them in disputes, according to commercial lawyers here.

In 2004, an old friend of Mr. Zadeh's father brokered an introduction with Sheikh Hasher. The sheikh owns Al Fajer Enterprises, a conglomerate that includes a large construction and contracting arm.

In affidavits filed with Dubai's prosecution office, Mr. Zadeh contends that he and Sheikh Hasher verbally agreed to a partnership, signing a contract on Feb. 1, 2006. The partnership, Mr. Zadeh says, established the two men as co-owners of Al Fajer Properties. The men would split profits equally and would invest equal amounts of capital. The contract named Mr. Zadeh as chief executive.

Mr. Zadeh provided $335,000 in start-up capital, and he invested another approximately $30 million in the company, according to bank documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. Mr. Zadeh's affidavits contend Sheikh Hasher didn't contribute any capital. Sheikh Hasher denies the equity partnership ever existed.

Business took off quickly. One of Al Fajer's biggest projects was a planned $750-million development of five office towers, set just inland from Dubai's man-made, palm-tree-shaped island. Mr. Zadeh bought three of the five plots for the 40-story towers with his own money, according to financial documents. With investors lined up for units, he then awarded $215 million worth of contracts to the construction arm of Sheikh Hasher's Al Fajer Enterprises, according to company documents.

But by late 2007, the contractors were behind schedule, according to company documents and former employees. Al Fajer Properties was facing fines for the delays, and buyers were starting to complain. Sheikh Hasher wanted payments to continue to his companies, but Mr. Zadeh claims he said no. The sheikh complained in a series of text messages that unless Mr. Zadeh released more cash, his contracting companies would go bankrupt.

On Feb. 21, 2008, Mr. Zadeh claims, he received an unusual phone call from State Security, asking him to come in that evening for a talk. When he arrived, , he claims that police blindfolded him, put him into a sport-utility vehicle and drove him to a detention center.

In the eight weeks he was jailed, Mr. Zadeh says he was never accused of a specific crime or shown an arrest warrant. Instead, he says, he was repeatedly interrogated about his personal life and Al Fajer's operations, and gave his interrogators the combination to the company's safe after they asked for it. "They told me that if I did not cooperate that they would ruin me," Mr. Zadeh said.

Mr. Zadeh contends the only copy of his partnership agreement with Sheikh Hasher was in the safe. Former employees of Al Fajer say the company safe was emptied while Mr. Zadeh was jailed.

On March 6, Sheikh Hasher's son, Sheikh Maktoum, was named the new chief executive of Al Fajer Properties. Sheikh Hasher hired international accountants to audit Al Fajer's books, according to former employees. He then presented the findings to employees and select clients, accusing Mr. Zadeh of embezzling funds. Phone calls and emails sent to lawyers and accountants of Al Fajer Properties were not returned.

Sheikh Hasher says Mr. Zadeh stole money from him, but did not provide evidence, or the audit, to back his claim. Mr. Zadeh denies it.

Prosecutors refused to investigate the case, citing an order from Dubai's attorney general, an official appointed by the ruler. In November, Mr. Zadeh tried one last option. He approached the ruler's diwan, or court administration, and asked for mediation from Sheikh Mohammed himself.

So far, there has been no reply.

Write to Margaret Coker at [email protected]


----------



## nxthenx

*Petition against real estate practices that harm Dubai*

http://rapidshare.com/files/198255489/20090212_p_2006_06_20_09_19_55_122606.pdf.html


----------



## 234sale

Feed up with all the doom and gloom,,

watch and try not to laugh


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> Feed up with all the doom and gloom,,
> 
> watch and try not to laugh


It's not so much the doom and gloom that I'm fed up with. As far as i am concerned if it is related to property and investments in Dubai then it is all good content, be it posotive or negative.

What drags the standard down in this thread in my opinion is the never ending deluge of rubbish posted about other nonsense and personal insults that simply would not be tolerated on a project thread as it is not "on topic", yet it would seem that as this thread is not project specific any amount of bullshit is tolerated as it is fair game.

There is already a thread for bullshit and general insults here ;
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=105809&page=408

Sale-

Your yutube vid on the one hand is a harmless and a fun way for the workers to warm up for the day tai chi style.

There is also a rather more sinister undertone to this type of "social complaince conditioning" when used by employers on employees.

The roots of this type of behavior can be traced back to both Nazi and Japanese POW camps when it was used as a phscological control tool.

I found myself feeling sorry for those poor bastards.

Just an observation.


----------



## sval

High Times said:


> It's not so much the doom and gloom that I'm fed up with. As far as i am concerned if it is related to property and investments in Dubai then it is all good content, be it posotive or negative.
> 
> What drags the standard down in this thread in my opinion is the never ending deluge of rubbish posted about other nonsense and personal insults that simply would not be tolerated on a project thread as it is not "on topic", yet it would seem that as this thread is not project specific any amount of bullshit is tolerated as it is fair game.
> 
> There is already a thread for bullshit and general insults here ;
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=105809&page=408
> 
> Sale-
> 
> Your yutube vid on the one hand is a harmless and a fun way for the workers to warm up for the day tai chi style.
> 
> There is also a rather more sinister undertone to this type of "social complaince conditioning" when used by employers on employees.
> 
> The roots of this type of behavior can be traced back to both Nazi and Japanese POW camps when it was used as a phscological control tool.
> 
> I found myself feeling sorry for those poor bastards.
> 
> Just an observation.



Totally agree with High Times on this. Over the last two months especially, have noticed a gradual deterioriation in the standard of the postings here. Very few relevant posts on the Property situation appear. It really appears that the sensible voices have disappeared,It is time sane and sensible voices like High Times are back again


----------



## 234sale

You miss the point of the video.

They are seeing if all workers are able for work.

Its team building, warm up exercise rather than just been shouted at to do a job.



> The roots of this type of behavior can be traced back to both Nazi and Japanese POW camps when it was used as a phscological control tool.


I think you would insult a South Korean if you suggested they were trying to be Japanese. They were on the allies side remember, not only that but also how they were invade afterwards.


----------



## Wannaberich

One real estate company down,another few hundred to go.Whos next?
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/546819-dubai-real-estate-company-shuts-down


----------



## 234sale

Thanks for that Wannaberich, 

I estimate we will see many agencies go, especially those who were built on commission.


----------



## Smokeey

High Times said:


> What drags the standard down in this thread in my opinion is the never ending deluge of rubbish posted about other nonsense and personal insults that simply would not be tolerated on a project thread as it is not "on topic", yet it would seem that as this thread is not project specific any amount of bullshit is tolerated as it is fair game.


Perhaps you should take your own advice before posting your frequent childish 'my c*ck is bigger than yours' posts.


----------



## mission

234sale said:


> Thanks for that Wannaberich,
> 
> I estimate we will see many agencies go, especially those who were built on commission.



I hope better homes go. They are shocking


----------



## speculator

234sale said:


> You miss the point of the video.
> Its team building, warm up exercise rather than just been shouted at to do a job.
> .



A decent days wages would do a lot more for these guys. What good is that when they arent even given adequate food and living accommodation. hno:


----------



## Wannaberich

mission said:


> I hope better homes go. They are shocking


Yeah but let them sell the unit Ive got with them first ! :lol:


----------



## houshang

Be realistic but dress your words for a dinner party:dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2:


----------



## Imre

Press Release

‘International Property Show - Dubai 2009’ opens with over 150 exhibitors from 20 countries

*H.H. Sheikh Mohamed bin Khalifa Al Maktoum inaugurates biggest transactional property exhibition in the region*

February 15, 2009

H.H. Sheikh Mohammed bin Khalifa Al Maktoum, Chairman, Dubai Land Department inaugurated today (February 15, 2009), the 'International Property Show - Dubai 2009', the biggest transactional property exhibition in the region. The show is set to showcase exceptional development projects from over 150 exhibitors from across the globe that are seeking to leverage the high attendance of international and regional investors at the annual industry event. Strategic Marketing and Exhibitions (SME), the event organiser, has revealed that the show, which will run until February 17, 2009 at the Dubai International Convention and Exhibition Centre (DIEC), is set to capitalise on the shift in property prices in Dubai, as well as the projected rise in the number of expatriates in the emirate in 2009.

Amidst the projections that Dubai’s economy will expand by 2.5 per cent in 2009, in addition to the expected arrival of many foreign residents, exhibitors and investors are upbeat about this year’s event. The exhibition’s association with the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) and the Dubai Land Department (DLD) has also contributed to the high level of confidence of investors at the show. As the event’s Strategic Partner, RERA has set up a special pavilion within the venue - the ‘RERA Consultancy Zone’, where representatives from the agency are answering the inquiries of commercial and residential investors and specialised visitors from the property industry. A dedicated pavilion has also been assigned to banks and financial institutions to aid investors seeking financial assistance.

Speaking at the inauguration, H.H. Sheikh Mohammed bin Khalifa Al Maktoum expressed optimism over Dubai’s property market growth. “Dubai will be the fastest city to recover from the impact of the ongoing credit crunch, and the emirate’s real estate sector will once again witness a period of long term boom. However, developers need to remain focused on their goal of continuing with the projects that they have already started and ensure that these projects are delivered on time. Developers who are registered with RERA can be assured of total support from Dubai Land Department. The impressive participation of players at the ‘International Property Show - Dubai 2009’ underlines the high confidence in the UAE’s property sector.”

Currently in its fifth edition, the ‘International Property Show - Dubai 2009’ has gathered the support of UAE-based master developer Falconcity of Wonders as the Gold Sponsor, and Al Arabiya TV as the exclusive broadcast partner. Leading real estate companies showcasing their UAE-based developments at the show include - Khoie Properties, who are showcasing the AED 3.5 billion 'La Hoya Bay' project and Bonyan International Investment Group highlighting its ‘Eye of Ajman’ project. In addition, other local developers include Tiger Properties, Roots Land Real Estate, RAK Properties, Corner Stone Real Estate, Dubai World Central, Chapal World LLC, Savannah Properties, Threesixty, and KM Properties, Time Properties, Asia Star Properties International, and Sherwoods Independent Property Consultant.

“We extend our sincerest appreciation to H.H. Sheikh Mohammed bin Khalifa Al Maktoum for gracing us today with his presence at the ‘International Property Show - Dubai 2009’, and to all the local and international real estate companies who have supported this exhibition. We are also pleased by the good turnout witnessed at the event from developers, in addition to professionals from the property and finance sector, despite all the challenges imposed by the current global economic crisis. Finally, I would like to wish all the participants significant success, and we look forward to attain the goals of this exhibition, and consequently support the local and regional real estate sector,” said Dawood Al Shewazi, Managing Director, SME.

“This year’s edition of ‘International Property Show’ features the participation of local companies licensed by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) as we aim to showcase only licensed real estate projects. This has been the result of full coordination and cooperation with RERA, which entailed the submission of all the registration documents for each and every project at the show,” concluded Al Shezawi.

The ‘International Property Show - Dubai 2009’ was first organised in 2004, and has since grown to become the definitive event for companies seeking to establish strong personal relationships with worldwide players in property and investment industries. The global delegation at this year’s event include high profile companies from the UK, US, Malaysia, Spain, Thailand, South Africa, Bulgaria, Korea and Cyprus. Among these are high profile names such as Florida Choice Realty Services, Crown Acquisitions Worldwide PLC, Estateman Limited, Capital Land Acquisitions Ltd. and Harlequin Hotels and Resorts from the UK, and KW Luxury Homes, Stonehenge Builders Inc. and Rapid USA Visas from the US.


----------



## Wannaberich

^^
Ok you guys,after me :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Naz UK

What's so funny?


----------



## 234sale

speculator said:


> A decent days wages would do a lot more for these guys. What good is that when they arent even given adequate food and living accommodation. hno:


I asked a few of them why they were in Dubai, they said,,, no job, no money at home. Dubai, money for home, free home in Dubai.


----------



## smussuw

Sama Dubai, Dubai Properties And Mizin have merged their supplementary services and operations.


----------



## Wannaberich

Imre said:


> in addition to the expected arrival of many foreign residents
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking at the inauguration, H.H. Sheikh Mohammed bin Khalifa Al Maktoum expressed optimism over Dubai’s property market growth. “Dubai will be the fastest city to recover from the impact of the ongoing credit crunch, and the emirate’s real estate sector will once again witness a period of long term boom.


Whats so funny Naz?How about the irony of a property show in Dubai.Whos buying.Are u?
As for the two parts Ive quoted,now they are funny.
Who is Sheik Mo trying to convince more.Us or himself.


----------



## POOCH-DXB

smussuw said:


> Sama Dubai, Dubai Properties And Mizin have merged their supplementary services and operations.


Could you kindly elaborate on this? I am particularly interested as this might have far-reaching consequences on at least 1/3rd of Dubai's proposed developments...Maybe more, if Tatweer is included in that list!

Irrespective of the fact that this might be my 'x'th post in here, I hope all agree that this potentially has more significant implications on 'Property & Investment in Dubai' than some of the other issues of insignificance being discussed & debated.

My apologies in advance if I happen to inadvertently offend anyone.


----------



## High Times

I agree i am also interested to know more about this


----------



## smussuw

POOCH-DXB said:


> Could you kindly elaborate on this? I am particularly interested as this might have far-reaching consequences on at least 1/3rd of Dubai's proposed developments...Maybe more, if Tatweer is included in that list!
> 
> Irrespective of the fact that this might be my 'x'th post in here, I hope all agree that this potentially has more significant implications on 'Property & Investment in Dubai' than some of the other issues of insignificance being discussed & debated.
> 
> My apologies in advance if I happen to inadvertently offend anyone.


Mizin which is the construction member in Tatweer is in the list.

They said that the decision was to reduce cost by merging those operations. They also said that some might become redundant as a result. However they also said that each of them will still be responsible for their own projects.


----------



## 234sale

see my lagoons post of about last week post 512... DP is now the main company.


----------



## smussuw

^^ they didn't say anything about them merging under one name, not yet at least :dunno:


----------



## 234sale

Who would be the CEO, thats the problem. Some other problem with the overseas bitmmm will double check tomorrow.


----------



## speculator

234sale said:


> I asked a few of them why they were in Dubai, they said,,, no job, no money at home. Dubai, money for home, free home in Dubai.



You really spoke to a few of them did you. Well the truth is alot of these guys have been duped to come over here. They were promised a different dream. 

Dont tell me they can walk away cause they cant. We all know they are stuck and burdened with debts and passports held by the visa agents or developers.

The truth is the people who really have no jobs and homes ( back home ) are the ones that are still there with no jobs and homes; as they cant afford to come in the first place and are usually the ones that dont want to work. 

These guys are from the rural areas in home countries and have a relativity comfy life and a sense of belonging and respect in their communities. Like I say they are duped. 

Dont judge my friend. Just because these guys work hard and they do the work others wont doesn't mean they should be degraded to such humiliation as the video you posted.


----------



## gerald.d

974agk said:


> Afternoon Forum members!
> 
> Without being to drab and boring does anybody know anything about the following? Is it a Scam or Legit. Appoligies if im on the wrong thread here.#
> 
> When something appears to good to be true it usually is, I assume that we could all advertise to to the following & fill our own bank accounts:lol::lol:
> 
> www.notax.ae
> 
> Quote;
> Thank you for your enquiry and for taking the time to talk to me earlier this week. I hope that our solution has provided some options to help reduce your company’s corporation tax liability, at the same time allowing you to benefit personally – tax free.
> Our solutions are based around the setup of an offshore company and Bank account. Each month we invoice you an agreed amount, which is paid from your UK Limited Company. 90% of the invoice value being deposited immediately into your new offshore facility.
> By reducing the profit of the business you are reducing your corporation tax liability and with your funds offshore and in the privacy of a company structure these funds are tax free. Many clients look at our solutions as part of a long term tax strategy to reduce their UK liability and to save longer term for the future as an alternative to a savings or pension fund.


Anyone doing that would have a serious problem if they ever wanted to re-patriate the money sitting in the off-shore account.


----------



## Toofif

I've got a dispute with my developer over the size of my apartment.

Does anyone know of a local chartered surveyor/valuer who can perform accurate apartment size measurements?


----------



## smussuw

Cayman said:


> I was one of the first to buy Springs 4M at AED 452,888 in 2004 (I think) and sold at 790K 18 months later. Since then I have been buying and selling them at various price points, until the last one I had in Springs 2 was sold for 2.1M in March 2008, so I do track the prices of Springs 4M and 4Es.


Oh, u are one of those guys guilty of turning Dubai to what it is right now hno:

A crash is when it goes below 452,888, hopefully soon :banana:


----------



## luv2bebrown

smussuw said:


> Oh, u are one of those guys guilty of turning Dubai to what it is right now hno:


exactly. i wonder if he was able to cash out in time or if he became a victim of his own property pyramid scheme.


----------



## High Times

Imre said:


> market is getting worst, some prices from the
> :bash:


Imre what is your opinion as to what areas if any are holding up better than most from a capital value perspective ?


----------



## luv2bebrown

lol seen a couple of international city studios back down to 35k. looks like it is a crash!


----------



## skdubai

I cannot believe anyone would be willing to pay for a studio in International city !!! I mean c'mon!!!


----------



## Adel

Guys in your serious opinion what will be a fair price per sq ft for a 2 bed flat above the 20th floor with a sea view in a high end area in Dubai? I mean at what price would you consider buying?


----------



## luluprovence

------------------


----------



## dbxdude

Adel said:


> Guys in your serious opinion what will be a fair price per sq ft for a 2 bed flat above the 20th floor with a sea view in a high end area in Dubai? I mean at what price would you consider buying?


800-1000 if you talking marina, even down town.


----------



## dbxdude

Imre said:


> *Dubai records zero mortgage defaults - official*
> 
> 15 February 2009
> 
> NO DEFAULTS: Home owners in Dubai have not defaulted on their mortgages. No mortgage defaults have been recorded so far in Dubai despite the worsening global economic crisis, according to a senior official at the land department, it was reported on Sunday.
> 
> According to UAE law properties can be repossessed by banks if owners default on their mortgage, and sold off at public auction by the Dubai Land Department.
> 
> Owners are given 60 days to demonstrate they are able to pay the arrears, but on the expiry of 60 days a judge can order the property sold, according to lawyers in UAE daily Emirates Business.
> 
> 
> However, assistant director general at the land department, Mohammed Sultan Al Thani said: "No mortgage defaults have so far been recorded. As far as we know nothing has been officially recorded.”
> 
> Ali Al Haddad, owner and senior lawyer at Al Haddad & Associates, also said his firm had not seen any defaults.
> 
> "It would be the Dubai Courts and not the Property Court that would handle cases of mortgage defaults in Dubai," he added.
> 
> Article 26 of Law 14 concerning mortgages says: "If the mortgagor or debtor fails to pay the mortgage within a period specified, the execution judge shall, upon request of the mortgagee or the creditor, give order for the mortgaged property to be sold in a public auction."
> 
> the judge can then delay teh sale for a further 60 days, added Ashley Painter, a finance partner at Clyde and Company.
> 
> "The judge can delay the sale for not more than 60 days, but only if he is convinced that the borrower will be able to discharge the debt within that period," he said.
> 
> The suporting evidence is set out in Article 27 that says the 60 day delay (of a sale) will be allowed only if the judge finds that the sale of the mortgaged property would cause substantial damage to the debtor.
> 
> www.arabianbusiness.com/546743-dubai-records-zero-mortgage-defaults---official


This is because the law is not in place fully yet. For instance, if your defaulted, under shiria law, do you owe the outstanding if its in negative equity? 

Secondly, wait till all those delayed villas and appartments under finance get handed over and huge construction profit cheques get banked. I mean if your project is 2 years delayed you will have severly under estimated the cost of your intrest on finance. As we all know, everyone who has a mortage has had to make a cheque - undated - for the full amount - if the property is negative equity, whats to stop banks cashing those cheques - what woiuld be the repercussions of people going to jail? mass exodas? and the effect of that as small and medium business owners flee fearing jail on bounced cheques. . . 

The default question is very interesting....


----------



## Chuckles2

Imre said:


> *Dubai records zero mortgage defaults - official*
> 15 February 2009
> 
> NO DEFAULTS: Home owners in Dubai have not defaulted on their mortgages. No mortgage defaults have been recorded so far in Dubai despite the worsening global economic crisis, according to a senior official at the land department, it was reported on Sunday.


This is not really true. A lot of people bought off-plan properties by putting the required downpayment which they've obtained from banks as a personal loan (not a mortgage), and with the intention of flipping it for a quick buck. It is these people (and they number in their thousands) that have, are, and will be defaulting on their interest payments first, and eventually on the principal amount.

Besides, it's the banks who will know if a borrower has defaulted on a mortgage, not the lands department. Sure, if and when the bank wants to exercise its security by selling the property under mortgage, that's when the lands department will enter the picture. That situation has probably not yet arisen.


----------



## dbxdude

A solution or rather a suggestion..... it concerns combining all issues Dubai is facing and coming up with a common solution, this post is more for fun, i am no economist.... 

The four problems are:. 

1) There are a large number of projects being canceled or being put on hold, purchasers are not able to access their funds, developers unable or unwilling to return them. 
2) There are a lot of developers closing or facing bankruptcy - Sama merging with Dubai Properties illustrates the first step of nationalizing and merging defunct developers into larger state owned developers - this trend may continue
3) Thousands of people will soon default on completed properties as they are handed over - unable to pay construction profits - facing negative equity and unable to get access to finance and liable to jail time. 
4) banks have over extended themselves and can no longer lend given there debt to credit ratio often exceeds 120% (typical banking practice pre 2004 was 70%)

A possible solution (in theory, im sure there are alot of holes in it and it would require a lot of thought and planning - maybe the numbers don’t make sense - here goes anyway) 

1) Smaller developers who cant survive nationalized into the big 3. Unrealistic projects cancelled or OP's revised. Credit provided (maybe in the form of bonds) to off plan investors in place of money put into now defunct projects to be used to buy into completed properties. Confidence begins to be restored. 

2) Financed investors who cannot meet the 'construction profit' costs and who are now in negative or natural equity be foreclosed - Except all debt apart from the construction profit forgiven. Construction profit converted into 6 year loans with interest applied - this can be used to pay interest on bonds provided to off plan investors. 

3) Forclosed properties put into a Property Bank (possibly tamweel and amlak) and offered at certain prices for bond holders - payment to be made in full or part with bonds. 

4) Property bank now holds bonds and as such increases its assets and thus decrease debt to credit ratio back towards sub 100%

Net result: 

Off plan investors get something - bonds or completed property or partial payment to it - from a large stock selection 
Financed investors avoid jail and ruin and having to flee Dubai - which helps Dubai’s economy since many of these people are business owners and employee thousands 
Banks recover some losses in form of bonds and reduce lending levels. Of course Dubai Govt would need to guarantee bonds. 

All parties win and loose - everyone will loose equally and fairly. After all the banks lent on unrealistic evaluations, residents bought into the dream at unrealistic prices etc. 

Point is everyone has an asset that will appreciate overtime - Dubai is still a great city, in a great country in a region with great fundamentals so it will come back. 

Logistically its difficult, it will take time and people will not be convinced until positive results come through but something like this might work....


----------



## THEPOINT

dbxdude said:


> 800-1000 if you talking marina, even down town.


OK Dude let me see them ? Sea views 20th floor cmon 800 aed psf ??


----------



## smussuw

^^ be patient my friend, it should go lower !


----------



## Adel

smussuw said:


> ^^ be patient my friend, it should go lower !


Ok, so when will you start buying smussuw?


----------



## skdubai

THEPOINT said:


> OK Dude let me see them ? Sea views 20th floor cmon 800 aed psf ??


The question was, at what price would you consider buying... so his answer was to that... what is ur opinion??


----------



## mission

skdubai said:


> The question was, at what price would you consider buying... so his answer was to that... what is ur opinion??


In the Marina i would say 1400sq


----------



## Maha

Adel said:


> "There are undoubtedly issues in Dubai."


No! Really! You don't say?!!

And did he find that out by himself or did the gas pump worker in Enoc tell him that?!




skdubai said:


> I cannot believe anyone would be willing to pay for a studio in International city !!! I mean c'mon!!!


I know some people that won't rent a studio in International city even if the landlord payed them :lol:


----------



## smussuw

Adel said:


> Ok, so when will you start buying smussuw?


I'll definitely wait until Indian schools finish by March and when Arabic and English schools finish by June. Am not saying that this will be the right time to buy but I think they will be lower. 

Prices are still very expensive, to me at least.

Don't take this as a recommendation, am not an expert !


----------



## Imre

234sale said:


> Does anyone know which developers have restructured payment plans, any examples?
> 
> The only one I could find is chapel, but I think there is more.


found only this:



lovedubai said:


> Abu Dhabi developer offers to renegotiate prices
> 
> 
> PRICE REVISION: Bloom Properties in Abu Dhabi has said it is actively reviewing prices and payment plans for existing customers. (Getty Images)
> A property developer in Abu Dhabi has taken the unprecedented step of asking its customers if they want to renegotiate the price of their off-plan projects in the wake of falling construction costs, it was reported on Monday.
> 
> Bloom Properties said it was going back to existing customers at its Bloom Gardens development who have made down payments with revised prices and payment plans, according to UAE daily The National.
> 
> Property prices in the capital have soared in the past few years with buyers paying as much as AED3,000 ($816) per sqft at the height of the boom last years, leaving a dearth of new investors.
> 
> Bloom's actions are seen as a “good move’ by other property brokers who say it is one of the only ways to keep existing investors, 80 percent of whom are speculators, involved in projects.
> 
> “We are going back to the existing buyers in Bloom Gardens in Abu Dhabi with the revised prices and payment plans,” Hani Shammah, the chief executive of Bloom properties said.
> 
> “This is not taboo for us. We have revisited the prices in line with the construction costs. We are passing on the declining construction costs to the end-user,” Shammah added.
> 
> Vincent Easton, the sales director of the property brokerage Sherwoods applauded the move.
> 
> “There is only a few mechanisms you can use for that. One is financing which is very difficult at the moment. One is revised payment terms. It is a good move. It shows the intention of the developer to continue to build and should inject confidence,” he said.


----------



## 234sale

Great,, any more....


----------



## BenjiDXB

Residence Visa for property owners is necessary and helpful. But 6 months is a bit dissappointing. The standard for residence visas in the UAE is 3 years...so if I want to retire here, I have to worry (and pay) again and again after 6 months, if it will be renewed or not ?


----------



## Imre

234sale said:


> Does anyone know which developers have restructured payment plans, any examples?


I think they have to restructure the selling price as well.

I bought a studio from the Emaar , price was around 2 million, already paid 300K.

I have to pay 1.7 m but no point to pay it.Nothing construction has started yet and less then 1 million I can buy a studio in the Downtown Burj Area so maybe better to loose the 300K.

I think I am not alone  , many people who bought from the Maysan,Teema Villas, Warsan,Mushrif Heights,Veneto,Badrah,Dubai Promenade etc projects ... already stopped the payments.


----------



## 234sale

I see this too,, anyone that has bought in waterfront at 2000 plus and only paid 10 - 20% may as well cancel or try and re-nego to a new price.

The developer may accept as their build cost has reduced, but Land cost could of been anywhere between 250 - 1000 AED sqft

Cityscape will be interesting this year


----------



## TDemirel

*Banks and Finance*

I received these mails in last couple of days:

"Dear Valued Associate,
Dubai Islamic Bank is pleased to announce that we are now financing ALL COMPLETED PROPERTIES in DUBAI Freehold irrespective of developer. Please find term and conditioned attached."

"I am taking this opportunity to inform you that we at Mashreq Bank are currently financing up to 70% for ready properties and 65% for under construction properties for a period of up to 25yrs. 
We do finance for Residents as well as Non Residents (Salaried and Self Employed profiles) for only residential properties. The finance is offered on approved properties. Checklist is also attached along with this mail. 
I would like to request you to kindly call/write for any details needed or regarding any urgent customer meeting for mortgage facility, I will be too glad to attend."

"I work with First Gulf Bank as Mortgage advisor for Aseel Finance in Abu Dhabi . I am forwarding you a list of developers which are presently financed by Aseel Finance. We are only as of now doing projects in Abu Dhabi . "

What do you think, they started to open the taps again?


----------



## 234sale

What the list of developers


----------



## IISinbadII

BenjiDXB said:


> Residence Visa for property owners is necessary and helpful. But 6 months is a bit dissappointing. The standard for residence visas in the UAE is 3 years...so if I want to retire here, I have to worry (and pay) again and again after 6 months, if it will be renewed or not ?


6 months is too short......hno:
They should change it to a 6 year renewable visa.


----------



## smussuw

^^ will never happen


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

*Just for everyone making comparisons... Misery loves company...*

America's Emptiest Cities

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/americas-emptiest-cities.html

By Zack O'Malley Greenburg, Forbes.com 
Feb 12th, 2009 

Vacancy rates in these spots spell lots of empty neighborhoods.
Call it a modern-day tale of two cities.

For decades, Las Vegas, ripe with new construction and economic development, burgeoned into a shimmering urban carnival. Detroit, once the fulcrum of American industry, sagged and rusted under its own weight.

These days, it's the worst of times for both.

Las Vegas edged Detroit for the title of America's most abandoned city. Atlanta came in third, followed by Greensboro, N.C., and Dayton, Ohio. Our rankings, a combination of rental and homeowner vacancy rates for the 75 largest metropolitan statistical areas in the country, are based on fourth-quarter data released Feb. 3 by the Census Bureau. Each was ranked on rental vacancies and housing vacancies; the final ranking is an average of the two.

Cities like Detroit and Dayton are casualties of America's lengthy industrial decline. Others, like Las Vegas and Orlando, are mostly victims of the recent housing bust. Boston and New York are among the lone bright spots, while Honolulu is the nation's best with a vacancy rate of 5.8% for homes and a scant 0.5% for rentals.

Still, empty neighborhoods are becoming an increasingly daunting problem across the country. The national rental vacancy rate now stands at 10.1%, up from 9.6% a year ago; homeowner vacancy has edged up from 2.8% to 2.9%. Richmond, Va.'s rental vacancy rate of 23.7% is the worst in America, while Orlando's 7.4% rate is lousiest on the homeowner side. Detroit and Las Vegas are among the worst offenders by both measures--the Motor City sports vacancy rates of 19.9% for rentals and 4% for homes; Sin City has rates of 16% and 4.7%, respectively.

"It's a mess," says Vegas developer Laurence Hallier. "Right now, things are just frozen. Everybody's scared."

Hallier, 40, knows from experience. His $600 million Panorama Towers complex was a tremendous success at its inception three years ago. The first of his four planned residential skyscrapers sold out in six months; the second, which opened in 2007, sold out in 12 weeks. As the third tower neared completion last fall, Hallier had sold 92% of its units. Then the recession hit, and only half the units ended up closing. Hallier says it will take years to break even, and plans for the fourth tower have been delayed indefinitely.

There are others who've made--and lost--far worse gambles on Vegas property. In 2007, Israeli billionaire Yitzhak Tshuva and partner Nochi Dankner paid $1.25 billion to buy a 34.5-acre site on the Strip, with plans to build an $8 billion mega-casino modeled after New York's Plaza Hotel. By November, the value of the lot had plummeted to $650 million--half what they paid for it. Groundbreaking on the casino has been pushed back to 2010, and today, the land may be worth less than the $625 million Tshuva and Dankner borrowed to buy it.

The Plaza debacle is emblematic of the problems afflicting millions of property owners in Vegas and around the country--and can explain, in large part, the origins of America's housing crisis.

As real estate prices skyrocketed during the boom, consumers took out massive loans to buy homes, assuming values would continue to rise. Instead they took a nosedive, especially in places like Las Vegas, Florida and Phoenix, where the housing boom had created excess inventory and so-called "bad loans" were rampant. Many homeowners suddenly found themselves with properties worth far less than the mortgages they'd taken out. In the worst cases, banks foreclosed, leaving people without homes--and with more debt than they'd had to begin with.

The situation in places like Las Vegas is bad enough, but Detroit's problems run much deeper. Though its vacancy rates are marginally better than Sin City's, Motown has been on the empty side for decades. An industrial boomtown during the first half of the 20th century, Detroit's population swelled from 285,000 in 1900 to 990,000 in 1920, reaching a peak of 1.8 million in 1950.

But starting in the 1960s, Detroit began a precipitous decline. Detroit's population is now 900,000--half what it was in the middle of the century--and many of its neighborhoods languish in varying states of decay. Most scholars blame rapid suburbanization, outsourcing of manufacturing jobs, and federal programs they say exacerbated the situation by creating a culture of joblessness and dependency.

Yet after more than half a century, countless scholars, politicians, community organizers developers and nonprofit workers have been unable to come up with a solution to fix Detroit.

Will Las Vegas eventually suffer the same fate?

"I don't think Vegas is overbuilt," says Hallier. "Despite what everybody says, Vegas still has 2 million people."

Time will tell if this sort of optimism is warranted. Cynics who've witnessed Detroit's decline might liken Hallier's opinions to another Dickens oeuvre: Great Expectations.


----------



## Hanna

smussuw said:


> ^^ will never happen



Will happen maybe not 6 years but 3 years is a cert !


----------



## peacesells

AITU said:


> ^^Try adding another dimension to your thinking.....the government have decided that permanant residency visas will not be issued on the grounds of National Security. It is not in the best interests of the country to have 50,000 Iranian Intelligence officers with permanant residency in the UAE.


Yeah I can probably think of another 10 reasons why they shouldn't issue residence visas, however, that's not the point - the point is that a permanent residence visa adds much needed value to a declining property market and it is clear from this announcement where the government's priorities really are.


----------



## AITU

^^ The point is that there is more to running a country than just trying to control the price of real estate. IMO a 6 months residence visa offers the correct balance in priorities given the circumstances.


----------



## nisha

A Gulf Over Debt Bailout Lies Between Two Divided Arab Emirates 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123477736970192433.html


Does anyone have access to the complete article?


----------



## peacesells

:lol:


AITU said:


> ^^ The point is that there is more to running a country than just trying to control the price of real estate. IMO a 6 months residence visa offers the correct balance in priorities given the circumstances.


1) This issue is much greater than a 'piece of real estate'. This issue and decisions taken by the government about the visa affect the WHOLE country big time. 

2) Either they have no clue as to what the investors 'want' or they DO know but refuse to grant it, putting 'national security' or whatever else as a greater priority. Oh yeah, there's the 3rd option - maybe I'm the idiot and obviously this is a great thing and everyone will be happy... :lol:


----------



## TDemirel

*List Of Developer*



234sale said:


> What the list of developers


Sorry, it is a long list


*List of Developers from FGB*
Developers Listed – Abu Dhabi 

Al Dar - All Projects 
Sorouh - All Projects 
Capital Mobadla - Abu Dhabi Projects 
Green Emirates - Abu Dhabi Projects 
Al Qudra - Abu Dhabi Projects 
Al Manazil - Abu Dhabi Projects 
TDIC - Abu Dhabi Projects 
Hydra - Abu Dhabi Projects 

REEM ISLAND – ABU DHABI 
Ocean Terrace 
Marina Blue 
Solaris Sigma 3 
Solaris Sigma 2 
Solaris Sigma 1 
Omega Tower 


*List of Developers from Mashreq*
EMMAR 
NAKHEEL 
ESTITHMAAR / Dubai Properties	

BIN LAHEJ 
IFA HOTELS & RESORTS 
TRIDENT INTERNATIONAL	
HIRCON INTERNATIONAL 
ETA STAR 
GIGA 
ETA STAR GIGA 
MAZYOOD GIGA INTL FZE 
GLOBAL REAL ESTATE (DEEYAR) 
GLOBAL REALTY PARTNERS 
REEF REAL ESTATE 
DAMAC
JPIL 
NPIL (Indigo Group)	
MPIL(Indigo Group)	
VPIL(Indigo Group)	
AL MANAL 
IMGMID 

K.G. INTERNATIONAL 
SHETH ESTATE INTERNATIONAL (SEIL)	
DUBAI SELECT 
LOKHANDWALA BUILDERS	
AL SALEHI 
HOLVILLE PROPERTY	
MOHD. HUSSAIN BROS 
SUNNY BEACH PROPERTIES LTD	
Apex Holdings & Pioneer Worldwide (RUFI)	
Rameez Manzoor & Mohd Wali (RUFI)	
Capital Trust Gulf Ltf (CFH)	
Diamond Developers Co Ltd.	
Alternative Capital Invest (ACI)	
Bavaria Gulf 
Al Madar 
Fakhruddin Properties	
Triveni Builders	
Pearl Dubai FZ LLC	75 Mio	
Wealthcare Investment Ltd. BVI Ltd	
Cirrus Developments LLC	
First Homes Ltd. 
Fortune Investment Group LLC
Bangash Properties	
Al Mazaya Holdings	
Madain properties	
Best Homes Real etstae 
Desert Dream Real estate 
NCC Urban Infrastucture Company Ltd	
Al Masarat real estate	
Ajmal Properties	
Brookes Corporation	
Stallion development Limited	
JOZ Group	
Dunes Property Investment - Transactions temporarily on hold 
Minc Properties Enterprises - Transactions temporarily on hold	
Etalat Al Bashaer	
Westar - Transactions temporarily on hold	

Azizi investments	SUSPENDED	
Schon Properties	SUSPENDED	
Ashai Tower JVS Ltd -Transactions temporarily on hold	
Woldwide enterprises -Transactions temporarily on hold	
Fortis Plus Holdings Limited - Transactions temporarily on hold	
ARRA Ltd - Transactions temporarily on hold	
Dubai National Investment Co LLC	
Dubai Festival City	

*Dubai Islamic Bank* all completed properties regardless of developer.


----------



## Jodel

*Wall St Journal*

They seem to have it in for Dubai today - 2nd art. seen to be b***mthg the Region hno:


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> ^^ will never happen


We will never accpet the infidels !


----------



## smussuw

Hanna said:


> Will happen maybe not 6 years but 3 years is a cert !


says who?


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> Yeah I can probably think of another 10 reasons why they shouldn't issue residence visas, however, that's not the point - the point is that a permanent residence visa adds much needed value to a declining property market and it is clear from this announcement where the government's priorities really are.


What are your 10 reasons?
If Dubai is to build up a population of around 5/6 million,its ridiculous that that visas may not be issued.
As has been said many times before,to attract long time residents, Dubai needs to welcome people properly.Making them feel like lepers isnt the way to do it.
So what happens if there's another credit crunch when the population is up to 5 million and hundreds of thousands lose their jobs.Are they all supposed to just leave everything behind?Their houses,friends,their lives.Its a joke.
How can people feel as though they are part of Dubai and its future when they cant even get a simple visa.
If those people having to leave Dubai now were able to stay,they would be spending money,contributing to the local community.Properties wouldnt be emptying at the rate they are,rents wouldnt plummet,parts of Dubai wouldnt resemble a ghost town.
I really do not get the issue with visas.Someone please explain why the goverment is so reluctant?
The arrogance of it.We want your money but we dont want u.F... off.


----------



## Nachkebia

Wannaberich said:


> We want your money but we dont want u.F... off.


Is this new tag for Dubai adverts on CNN? :nuts:


----------



## Naz UK

smussuw said:


> ^^ will never happen


That's what some Emirati probably said about alcohol being served in hotels back in 1975! :lol:, sorry, I know it's not funny. :sleepy:


----------



## smussuw

^^ Not exactly because alcohol was widespread among the locals in the 1960 and 1970s more than now. It was never banned as far as I know.


----------



## smussuw

Dubai Properties said that it has finished 9498 apartments for the middle class for rent in a project called "Horse Gate". It said that this will balance the renting market.










http://www.albayan.ae/servlet/Satel...756060157&pagename=Albayan/Article/FullDetail


----------



## 234sale

TDemirel said:


> *Dubai Islamic Bank* all completed properties regardless of developer.


Thanks for the list


----------



## Wannaberich

Naz UK said:


> That's what some Emirati probably said about alcohol being served in hotels back in 1975! :lol:, sorry, I know it's not funny. :sleepy:


Probably the same Emirati who said you would never see hookers in Dubai.Or Def Leppard.


----------



## dlnash

I am in a fix:

My developer has agreed to downgrade my unit , to a smaller unit. This unit is currently being sold by him at a discount to new buyers , however, for my downgrading he is taking the price without the discount.
What should I do?


----------



## peacesells

dlnash said:


> I am in a fix:
> 
> My developer has agreed to downgrade my unit , to a smaller unit. This unit is currently being sold by him at a discount to new buyers , however, for my downgrading he is taking the price without the discount.
> What should I do?


Why did you agree to the downgrade? Let me guess - couldn't flip the big one in time...

Downgrading usually means that the developer is likely to receive less cash from you than expected, and in times like these, they will definately want to squeeze you so that the unit that you do end up with is at an above-market rate.


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> What are your 10 reasons?
> If Dubai is to build up a population of around 5/6 million,its ridiculous that that visas may not be issued.
> As has been said many times before,to attract long time residents, Dubai needs to welcome people properly.Making them feel like lepers isnt the way to do it.
> So what happens if there's another credit crunch when the population is up to 5 million and hundreds of thousands lose their jobs.Are they all supposed to just leave everything behind?Their houses,friends,their lives.Its a joke.
> How can people feel as though they are part of Dubai and its future when they cant even get a simple visa.
> If those people having to leave Dubai now were able to stay,they would be spending money,contributing to the local community.Properties wouldnt be emptying at the rate they are,rents wouldnt plummet,parts of Dubai wouldnt resemble a ghost town.
> I really do not get the issue with visas.Someone please explain why the goverment is so reluctant?
> The arrogance of it.We want your money but we dont want u.F... off.


Their reasoning is something along the lines of visa = too many foreigners that are either dodgy, or shady or whatever that will marginalize the local population, demand rights, put strain on infrastructure and energy etc. Short-sighted I know, but that's the only way I can explain it. 

For the record, I completely agree with you on the fact that a long term residence visa is beneficial for everyone, but apparently, the government disagrees.


----------



## TDemirel

smussuw said:


> I'll definitely wait until Indian schools finish by March and when Arabic and English schools finish by June. Am not saying that this will be the right time to buy but I think they will be lower.
> 
> Prices are still very expensive, to me at least.
> 
> Don't take this as a recommendation, am not an expert !


Hi Smussuw
I was also thinking like you, after hearing that 13.000 students asked for their transcripts, so they should be leaving the country at the end of academic year.
But today I saw this:
http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Education/10286084.html
Basically, the schools are full and not accepting anymore pupils.
So really, where are all these families fled the country, or they were not having any child.
I'm living in Dubai, since 7 years. But speaking frankly, I still could not very well understand the dynamics of life here.
Maybe, we are hearing too much word of mouth, and we take them to seriously.


----------



## smussuw

^^ and it says here that 20,000 British students will go back from Dubai. Yes we cannot be sure but we can be certain that the picture will be clearer.

http://www.express.co.uk/features/view/83804


----------



## peacesells

I find it highly plausible that many people are hanging around just to see their kids finish school year. I wouldn't buy into any figures however, simply because it's not like there's a reliable centralized database that has contributions from each and every school.


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> Their reasoning is something along the lines of visa = too many foreigners that are either dodgy, or shady or whatever that will marginalize the local population, demand rights, put strain on infrastructure and energy etc. Short-sighted I know, but that's the only way I can explain it.
> 
> For the record, I completely agree with you on the fact that a long term residence visa is beneficial for everyone, but apparently, the government disagrees.


Thanks P.
If thats true it doesnt make alot of sense.
Dubai is already full of criminals.Most of them are developers.
Then there are those who use Dubai for money laundering.Russians buying up whole towers at JBR etc.
Dubais population is already marginalised.Visa or no visa and it will get worse with population growth.
Demand rights?The cheek.Ex-pats with rights,whatever next.
As for the strain on infrastructure,whether 5 million ex-pats have visas or not this wont make a difference.

Anyone else got some credible reasons not to give visas?


----------



## Chuckles2

dbxdude said:


> This is because the law is not in place fully yet. For instance, if your defaulted, under shiria law, do you owe the outstanding if its in negative equity?


This is a really good point, dbxdude.

Under Sharia law (or, more precisely, under Islamic Banking law), a mortgage is basically a buy-and-sell contract between the mortgagee (the seller, who is the Islamic Bank) and the mortgagor (the buyer of the property), and the "interest" which is charged is the so-called seller's "profit" on the transaction.

So, as you said dbxdude, what happens when there is negative equity? Will the Bank say "Oh yeah, since there's a loss on the transaction, here's a refund on the "interest" we charged"?? Not on your life!! You know that's not how banks operate, eh?

What I am certain will happen if such a situation does arise is that the Islamic banks will package all the mortgages they've written and sell it to conventional banks (in a manner similar to the now infamous "mortgage-backed securities"). Then they will tell the property buyer to go deal with the conventional banks!!

One can never win with the banks!


----------



## Chuckles2

Naz UK said:


> That's what some Emirati probably said about alcohol being served in hotels back in 1975! :lol:, sorry, I know it's not funny. :sleepy:


Indeed, Naz, that is what happened back in 1979. Until then, alcohol was freely served in all hotels and in some restaurants. Along came the Iranian Revolution, and Sheikh Rashid ordered all hotels stop serving alcohol, fearing a backlash from the Mullahs in Iran. That ban didn't last very long, since most hotels in those days were either owned or majority-partnered by important locals, and their businesses were suffering due to the ban.

Within a few short months, after things had settled down in Iran, the ban was quietly lifted, and alcohol started flowing again at all the hotels.

Dubai has always had a very liberal policy towards alcohol and even back in the 1960s and 1970s, there was never a complete ban on the consumption of alcohol.


----------



## Chuckles2

speculator said:


> To be honest this is a more realistic price. Who on earth could afford those silly prices before the crash. These prices will eventually bring more migration and investment to Dubai.


Agreed about present prices being more realistic, though ssmussw has a point when he says prices will go lower.

However, although I have a vested interest in Dubai's property sector, I cannot agree with your statement that lower property prices will bring more migration. It's jobs, jobs, jobs that will bring more migration. And for that to happen, we've got to see a revitalization of the property and financial sectors which are, together, perhaps the largest employers in Dubai. Both sectors will take a while to flourish. Meantime, more and more projects are being completed leading to higher supply of dwellings. If there is no corresponding increase in arrivals of new well-paid migrant workers, then supply will outstrip demand leading to prices continuing to fall. 

The latest new law being proposed in the UAE is that employers cannot fire their UAE employees, which means expatriate workers will be the first to go when a company downsizes......again, further pressure on demand for dwellings.

It will take a while for a sustained revival in demand for dwellings in Dubai. I've seen these boom-and-bust cycles happen in Dubai over the past 30 years. Someone in an earlier post had given the years of boom-and-bust cycles, and he was absolutely spot-on. The first property boom in Dubai occurred in 1974 to 1976 (soon after the first oil price increase), and when the bust happened in 1976 it took almost 12 years for Dubai's economy to boom again........first, the Iranian Revolution completely dried up demand for re-exported goods from Dubai, and soon thereafter the Iran-Iraq War had a bigger negative impact on Dubai's economy. Once the Iran-Iraq war stopped, Dubai began to boom again.

Let's hope this bust cycle doesn't last long.


----------



## tehsin123

nisha said:


> A Gulf Over Debt Bailout Lies Between Two Divided Arab Emirates
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123477736970192433.html
> 
> 
> Does anyone have access to the complete article?


That may be your opinion, but I woudn't risk my capital on just 6 month's surety and future unknown. Property investments are for decades or years at least, not for weeks or months. They have to realize this.


----------



## Imre

234sale said:


> Great,, any more....


got by email:

17 February 2009

Dear Sir / Madam:

Sub: Change of Payment Plan of Goldcrest Dreams Unit No. .... – in Emirates City, Ajman

We take this opportunity to wish you and your family a very happy new year. As you may be aware the construction of your apartment in the above project is in progress, however due to anticipated delay in obtaining the utilities and other infrastructure which is to be provided by the Master Developer, the anticipated completion date of your units has been changed from the current anticipated completion date of 31st July, 2009 to 31st July, 2011.

Consequently, all payments due have also been postponed based on the actual progress of construction and the details are stated at the end of this email.

We deeply regret for the delay in the anticipated completion date, we assure you that we will put in our best efforts to complete and handover the unit as per the anticipated completion date in co-ordination with the Master Developer. The anticipated completion date and payment schedule intimated to you herewith would be considered for all contractual purposes.

We also would like to inform you that we are in the process of registering these projects with Ajman Real Estate Regulatory Authority (ARRA) and opening an Escrow Account. Once the Escrow Account is opened, we will let you know the Escrow Account Number to which the payment has to be made.

In case you have any queries with regards to the contents of this email you can please contact our customer relations team at the details given below.



Sincerely,

Customer Relations

Star Giga Establishment Limited


----------



## Imre

dlnash said:


> I am in a fix:
> 
> My developer has agreed to downgrade my unit , to a smaller unit. This unit is currently being sold by him at a discount to new buyers , however, for my downgrading he is taking the price without the discount.
> What should I do?


Which project and what is the price?


----------



## Wannaberich

Chuckles2 said:


> I've seen these boom-and-bust cycles happen in Dubai over the past 30 years. Someone in an earlier post had given the years of boom-and-bust cycles, and he was absolutely spot-on. The first property boom in Dubai occurred in 1974 to 1976 (soon after the first oil price increase), and when the bust happened in 1976 it took almost 12 years for Dubai's economy to boom again........first, the Iranian Revolution completely dried up demand for re-exported goods from Dubai, and soon thereafter the Iran-Iraq War had a bigger negative impact on Dubai's economy. Once the Iran-Iraq war stopped, Dubai began to boom again.
> .


I dont think you can really compare the past boom-bust cycles of Dubai and why they happened with the one today.
Dubai is now a completely different place.The cause of the credit crunch is also unique.


----------



## Wannaberich

'UAE banks need more time to resume lending'
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/547086-uae-banks-need-more-time-to-resume-lending---central-bank


----------



## luluprovence

----------------------


----------



## durango05

*A Gulf Over Debt Bailout Lies Between Two Divided Arab Emirates*

*A Gulf Over Debt Bailout Lies Between Two Divided Arab Emirates *
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123477736970192433.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo
Will oil-rich Abu Dhabi bail out neighbor Dubai, currently groaning under $70 billion of debt racked up by its government-owned companies? Don't count on it.

Abu Dhabi's decision last week to pump $4.4 billion into its own banks while offering no support to lenders in Dubai or other members of the United Arab Emirates may simply be brinkmanship among the sheiks. But the possibility Abu Dhabi will refuse to come to Dubai's aid, once seen as almost unthinkable, can no longer be ruled out.

That raises the prospect of a deeper debt crisis in Dubai. And it could even mean a fragmentation of the federation, now in its 38th year, if Abu Dhabi refuses to pump billions of dollars into the economies of poorer emirates like Dubai to prevent either a corporate default or severe downturn. The cost of insuring Dubai debt has rocketed to around 10 percentage points for five-year debt -- higher even than for Iceland.


Getty Images
Construction of new buildings in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. The global financial crisis has taken its toll in Dubai with construction slowing and many projects in the planning stage being canceled.
Dubai's economy is contracting after a 40% slump in property prices, leaving the emirate struggling to refinance $15 billion of debt this year, according to credit-rating company Moody's.

Without Abu Dhabi's help, it has little chance of doing so. Moody's says it is likely to downgrade a raft of state-owned companies "if a trend of selective treatment within the federation becomes discernible." And bankers say they won't extend new lines of credit to Dubai without cast-iron financial guarantees from Abu Dhabi.

Abu Dhabi is driving a hard bargain. Its demands may include the surrender of Dubai's autonomy and the loss of control over crown jewels such as Emirates Airline and Nakheel, builder of the emirate's palm-shaped islands.

That may be too much for Dubai's ruling Maktoum family to stomach -- partly because the rulers of the two sheikdoms are cousins. Also, Dubai contends it was a principle of the 1971 agreement to form the federation that Abu Dhabi would use its oil wealth to support the other emirates.

Abu Dhabi has its own economic worries, thanks to falling oil prices, which account for the majority of the emirate's export earnings. Its reserves have been depleted by the losses suffered on its foreign investments, such as the $7.5 billion Abu Dhabi pumped into Citigroup in 2007 just before its shares collapsed.

But neither Abu Dhabi nor Dubai can afford to allow this standoff to drag on. Default by a major Dubai-owned company would trigger a crisis of confidence that could cost the emirate its status as the pre-eminent center for business in the region.

Worse, it could pull on the fabric that binds the emirates together, destabilizing the entire region.

Write to Andrew Critchlow at [email protected]


----------



## peacesells

luluprovence said:


> If this is true, what are the chances of a genuine buyer getting any form of justice if the developer engages in tactics especially in the formation of the Owners' Assn?


If a proper law is in place that guarantees a clear and transparent process of formation of association and handover of control to said association, the buyers should be fine. Without a proper law, the buyers will be squeezed - witness the plight of JBR residents and how some of them are being locked out of their flats for not paying disputed maintenance fees.


----------



## AltinD

Wannaberich said:


> Probably the same Emirati who said you would never see hookers in Dubai.Or Def Leppard.


Def Leppard have never been here (as far as I remember) ... that doesn't mean I didn't see them live last summer elsewhere.


----------



## luluprovence

--------------------


----------



## Wannaberich

AltinD said:


> Def Leppard have never been here (as far as I remember) ... that doesn't mean I didn't see them live last summer elsewhere.


Wait a minute,I thought all of the dinosaurs of british rock had performed in Dubai?
:runaway:


----------



## Maha

peacesells said:


> :lol:
> 
> 1) This issue is much greater than a 'piece of real estate'. This issue and decisions taken by the government about the visa affect the WHOLE country big time.
> 
> 2) Either they have no clue as to what the investors 'want' or they DO know but refuse to grant it, putting 'national security' or whatever else as a greater priority. Oh yeah, there's the 3rd option - maybe I'm the idiot and obviously this is a great thing and everyone will be happy... :lol:


You still don't see the big picture and still think that real estate is the issue here.

Moreover, I can not believe you said _"putting 'national security' as a greater priority"_  just tell me: where on earth is there anything, to any country, more important than national security :bash:

Why on earth do you think that "_what investors want_" should be on the top of their priority list and "_national security_", "_what they want_", "_what their people want_" and "_what their greater interest is_" should be lower down the list? :nuts:

I'm an expat and I would personally benefit from a permanent residency visa right now; but I actually agree with them, they have more important issues on the line here, issues so important that the economy will seem like a dispensable luxury.

I actually think that selling freehold property to every being that walked the Earth was a mistake that Dubai may pay for heavily in the future.


----------



## Naz UK

So who should they have sold freehold property to then? Just out of interest.


----------



## smussuw

They shouldn't have built them in the first place and if they were they should have been as lease hold for certain number of years or for rent.


----------



## nri-hotels

The only thing of value left in this world to sell for money, is SOVEREIGNITY.

Maybe its time to sell off parts of one's country. Whats the problem with that in a globalized world with one superpower who would protect your interests anyway ?


----------



## gerald.d

Imre said:


> got by email:
> 
> 17 February 2009
> 
> Dear Sir / Madam:
> 
> Sub: Change of Payment Plan of Goldcrest Dreams Unit No. .... – in Emirates City, Ajman
> 
> We take this opportunity to wish you and your family a very happy new year. As you may be aware the construction of your apartment in the above project is in progress, however due to anticipated delay in obtaining the utilities and other infrastructure which is to be provided by the Master Developer, the anticipated completion date of your units has been changed from the current anticipated completion date of 31st July, 2009 to 31st July, 2011.


Incredible - announcing a 2 year delay to completion just 5 months prior to the original handover date?
hno:


----------



## Wannaberich

Maha said:


> they have more important issues on the line here, issues so important that the economy will seem like a dispensable luxury.
> 
> .


Errrr such as?


----------



## Imre

gerald.d said:


> Incredible - announcing a 2 year delay to completion just 5 months prior to the original handover date?
> hno:


yes but at least they sent something and changed the payment plan

Many projects still just hole and the investors already paid 60-70%.


----------



## worried1

nisha said:


> A Gulf Over Debt Bailout Lies Between Two Divided Arab Emirates
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123477736970192433.html
> 
> 
> Does anyone have access to the complete article?


Not electronically, I subscribe to it though, the article it is on the last page; there is nothing new just the blah blah about Abu Dhabi wanting to take control over Dubai, its crown jewels, possible break up, turmoil etc etc.:bash:


----------



## desertmaster

Imre said:


> Many projects still just hole and the investors already paid 60-70%.



yes the HOLE was always there but people were busy FLIPPING so did not notice it ....now in this scenario they suddendly re discovered the hole !!!!


----------



## desertmaster

smussuw said:


> They shouldn't have built them in the first place and if they were they should have been as lease hold for certain number of years or for rent.


I always thought that the Money to build came from the foreigners and they just allowed to build ....if they had the money they would have built it themselves and given it on rent !


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*How Worried Should We Be About Dubai?*

Rachel Ziemba | Feb 17, 2009 

In recent weeks CDS spreads on the debt of Dubai’s largest State-linked vehicles like Dubai Holding etc shot up dramatically after Abu Dhabi announced a unilateral recapitalization of its banks. The cost to buy prrotection on the 1 year bond has doubled since late January and now stands at 1073bps. The jump in the 5 yr has been less sharp but stands at over 1400bps. Since Dubai has limited sovereign debt (about $10b and maybe climbing given the likely fiscal deficit) so these large state-linked companies provide a proxy for the perceived credit worthiness of Dubai’s government. Given Dubai’s debt stock ($80b or 148% of GDP), its vulnerability to global liquidity and the worsening outlook for its domestic property market despite the ability to control supply, it is perhaps not a surprise that the outlook for the emirate seems much more precarious, particularly in contrast to its cash rich neighbour, Abu Dhabi. Given the links of these debtors to the government, and the effect that their vulnerabilities could have on the UAE federation, it has widely been assumed that the UAE govt (or rather Abu Dhabi) would come to the aid of Dubai when the crunch came. However, there has been more uncertainty than some expected. Key tests are ahead in coming months as Dubai adjusts to a world where leverage remains scarce.

Around $20b of the outstanding debt ($80b) comes due in 2009, including several large syndications like that of Borse Dubai which was having trouble rolling over its $4b loan that expired at the end of February. Breaking views notes that the $4b capital needed is a test case as allowing the institution to implode would have broader reverberations. It now seems that the UAE federal government might be coming to the rescue. Meed suggests that it will loan Borse dubai $1b to make up the shortfall. Borse Dubai only managed to secure $1.25 billion of commitments from commercial banks, although some further commitments from banks could bring the final bank tranche to $1.5 billion. Even the capital that Dubai attracts will come at a higher cost. Borse Dubai might have to pay 430bps above Libor rather than the 130bps the maturing loan carried.

Unlike some of its neighbours (especially Abu Dhabi) Dubai’s growth was primarily debt financed, making it more vulnerable to the global liquidity crunch and more local liquidity tightening triggered first by the withdrawal of speculative capital and – later by the fall in the oil price. Although Dubai has little oil, it was clearly a petrodollar recycling hub. It accounted for much of the UAE’s external debt stock (some of Abu Dhabi’s state investors like Mubadala and others accounted for the rest ). Dubai based banks likely also accounted for much of the bank lending to the UAE. Moodys vulnerability indicators show that the UAE is among the most vulnerable in the MENA region (if much less vulnerable that Eastern European countries that are being forced to rapidly and painfully adjust.

Data from the BIS (see chart below) show that loans extended to the UAE first tapered off and then fell in Q2 and Q3 of 2008 (the most recent data) This is consistent with the outflows of short-term capital once dinar revaluation was taken off the table that contributed to a local credit crunch as well as the the escalation of credit crunch on a global scale and a reluctance to lend to the Gulf as the oil price began to fall. Of remaining loans, UK banks are most exposed. Looking at shifts in the UAE’s central bank reserves details the scale of this flows. The UAE’s reserves doubled to almost $100 billion but have subsequently fallen to $44 billion at the end of Q3 (most recent data). No wonder the project finance costs and domestic interbank rates shot up.










Liabilities of BIS banks to UAE

The following gives an outlook of how net flows of funds (deposits abroad - loans) of the UAE compare to the rest of the GCC. the UAE has consistently borrowed more from foreign banks than it has borrowed abroad for the last 18 months. Despite the drop in loans extended to the UAE, it continued to be a net borrower from the international banking system - unlike for example Saudi Arabia or Kuwait.










Dubai is experiencing a property bust. Prices and volumes have been falling for some time and even efforts to control the supply (by merging and providing capital to the main mortgage lenders or pulling back on projects have had limited effect.) The secondary market in particular has dried up. Meanwhile with a number of foreigners losing their jobs will be another blow to consumption and property markets.

It has been widely assumed that oil-rich Abu Dhabi would come to Dubai’s aid in one way or another, providing the needed capital and solidifying Abu Dhabi’s role within the power structure of the UAE. It seemed likely that federal institutions were taking the upper hand – including the central bank. In fact the first UAE government responses to the financial strains on UAE banks seemed to be evidence enough. But the next stage has been less unclear.

Moreover the structure of some of the liquidity provided including the temporary ‘repo window’ still created disincentives for banks to take advantage of the funds – likely because authorities wanted to force regulatory changes to stem the significant credit growth. While most UAE banks received long-term deposits back in the fall from the central bank, they remain undercapitalized given the loss of whole sale financing and the fact that the property bust is undermining the quality of underlying assets – property, credit card debt etc. Standard chartered suggests that UAE banks need an additional $27 billion to be adequately capitalized. Other institutions like a permanent repo window and other tools to control the money supply are also needed. These capital needs persist despite Abu Dhabi’s injections to its banks, however, the support of the emirate’s government does add to the stability of financial institutions there and reduce the risk of systemic risk. Abu Dhabi provided capital injections to five banks operating in the emirate in the form of 5 year deposits. Yet allowing a default of a major state-linked banks could have broader reverberations in the region.

Why hasn’t Abu Dhabi made more funds available to Dubai given that the uncertainty undermines UAE asset quality and the “UAE brand”? One explanation might be politics between the emirates. Reportedly Dubai has not actually asked for funds, perhaps fearing a loss of autonomy.

However, even Abu Dhabi’s stock of liquid assets might not be quite as high as it might like. In a recent paper, Brad Setser and I argue that the funds of the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority (ADIA) may never have been as large as some observers thought (we peg its peak at close to $480b early in 2008 and suggest it may have suffered valuation losses that took its AUM down as low as $300b (watch later in the week for some updated calculations on a range of sovereign funds). The calculations are based on an index based portfolio so we might be a bit off. However, given that liquidity is at a shortage and Abu Dhabi may also run a fiscal deficit, it may prefer to preserve its capital for investments prioritized for domestic development.

Yet it is not in its interest to let too large a gap in credit worthiness emerge with Dubai particularly as its banks and institutions are exposed to Dubai’s property markets (perhaps accounting for the extra liquidity injection.) Furthermore there are risks that the property markets and financial institutions throughout the region even if most countries are more insulated. Abu Dhabi may prefer to avoid such a bust. But as Moody’s notes, the corporate sectors of the GCC have not been tested in this way in the past and do face significant financing needs.

Broader cost cutting is going on in Dubai including several mergers in the property sector and job reductions. Dubai International Capital and Dubai Group, investment focused entities belonging to Sheikh Mohammed plan a quasi merger. This seems to make sense and may reduce overcapacities. In fact these two entities always seemed to be encroaching on each others turf (investment in financials, private equity holdings etc) in a UAE that was serving as a laboratory for investment abroad, though recently Dubai group was reportedly branching into Islamic finance. Furthermore like others relying on leverage their business model has come under challenge. The sharing of back office support may be the first step to a re-merger. Needless to say, any funds and projects overly reliant on leverage should continue to be very quiet (the QIA might be one exception)

The combination of much more subdued credit growth, reduction in oil production and reduction in non-oil trade and services will keep the UAE’s growth weak in 2009. The country’s non-oil diversification has exposed it to sectors that are faltering globally (shipping, tourism, property, finance). Government support and the fact that many sectors are centralized can cushion the blow somewhat – fiscal policy is expected to be expansionary, the budgets of the UAE federal government (which spends mostly in the smaller five emirates) and Dubai show expenditure growth in 2009. Abu Dhabi will likely do so also though its budget has not been disclosed. Yet there is a broader question where will the funds come from or what price will be charged to get there. Yet given the direct linkages between the UAE’s borrowers and the national and sub-national governments, funds should be forthcoming even if they are pricy and become more so with oil at $35 a barrel. 

http://www.rgemonitor.com/economonitor-monitor/255602/how_worried_should_we_be_about_dubai


----------



## smussuw

desertmaster said:


> I always thought that the Money to build came from the foreigners and they just allowed to build ....if they had the money they would have built it themselves and given it on rent !


Yes, money being loaned mainly from our local banks :bash:


----------



## Naz UK

Personally, if I was an Emirati concerned with the squandering of the nation's wealth, I'd be far more bothered about money going into "private" bank accounts (mentioning no names, or names of families, or names of tribes, or names of, well you get the picture) rather than money invested in the country like real estate projects, even if 90% of the projects are owned by foreigners even with a large percentage of "their" money coming from UAE banks. That's the nature of investments, i.e. risky money-making vehicles which may result in profits all round. The last time I checked, certain individuals dipping into a nation's bank balance to the tune of $Billions and for it never to be made public or accounted for, does not fit the international definition of the word "investment".


----------



## worried1

*Dubai property market ceases to exist*

From the Daily Reckoning News Letter:

Dubai property market ceases to exist:bash:

The markets of 2009: plenty of offers; few bids. 

From Dubai comes word that the property market has not just fallen...it has ceased to exist. This from Justice Litle:

“You can’t put a percentage figure on the market drop. In fact, there isn’t a market at all.”

“The scary thing is, they’re nowhere close to facing reality... the official listings have only reduced prices by 10-20%, even with no buyers in sight, and builders are hoping to build more...”

Meanwhile, in the United States, the S&P has completed 6 quarters of negative growth and is now registering it first quarter ever of negative earnings. That’s right, dear reader, put all the S&P companies together. Add up their earnings. Subtract their losses. Result: net losses.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ same everywhere in the world, nothing is selling anywhere. There is no property market at any price anywhere. Mr chucky chuckles did not even want to buy a $1 brick house at an auction in the US.


----------



## FWIW

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ same everywhere in the world, nothing is selling anywhere. There is no property market at any price anywhere. Mr chucky chuckles did not even want to buy a $1 brick house at an auction in the US.


Karl explains it rather well...

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/802-Illiquid-Assets-The-Truth.html

He just can't bring himself to say "BUY GOLD".:lol:


----------



## IISinbadII

AITU said:


> ^^Try adding another dimension to your thinking.....the government have decided that permanant residency visas will not be issued on the grounds of National Security. It is not in the best interests of the country to have 50,000 Iranian Intelligence officers with permanant residency in the UAE.


Why single out Iranians???? 

How about e.g. 50,000 INDIAN Intelligence officers. After all there are more Indians living in UAE. Indian Rupee used to be the official currency and even the local Arabs speak Hindi. 

Are you scared of them?


----------



## Naz UK

I think the UAE is far more scared of Iranians than Indians. But that's just my personal feeling.


----------



## Arno Salzl

*Tennis: Dubai's future on circuit uncertain after Peer controversy*

Dubai could lose both it's men's and women's tournaments after the United Arab Emirates barred Israeli player Shahar Peer from entering the country for this week's US$2 million WTA event. 
An ATP official said the men's tour would review the status of its Dubai tournament, which is due to begin next Monday. 

"We are very disappointed to hear about the decision with Shahar Peer and we are looking at it and are very concerned," ATP board of directors member Justin Gimelstob said at the San Jose Open. 
WTA Tour chairman Larry Scott said barring Peer (pictured) threatened the principle that sports and politics should not mix. 
He said the WTA would consider what "types of sanctions are going to be deemed to be appropriate in light of what has happened, including whether or not the tournament has a slot on the calendar next year".

Bad news, only bad news hno:


----------



## Imre

*Rera to set rules for service charge *



Dubai: Four new regulations to be announced in March will give property owners in Dubai respite from rocketing service charges, the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) said on Tuesday.

Against the backdrop of falling property prices, some developers in Dubai recently hiked service charges, much to the dismay of residents.

Under the proposed new regulations, service charges for buildings that have been handed over are to be frozen at 2008 rates unless the current rates are less than 2008 rates or have been approved by Rera.

This freeze will last until the first general assembly of the Owner's Association is held. This is expected to be within three months of registration. 

Service charges for buildings that are due to be handed over soon or are in the process of being handed over are also subject to Rera approval. The charges will then be applicable until the first general assembly is held.

Owners of buildings that have already been handed over or those which are due to be handed over would be required to pay the service charges until such time that the owners approve service charges decided on at the general assembly, Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive of Rera, said.

Service charges which have already been paid would be adjusted as per the revised rate.

"There has been so much frustration and anger about service charges being levied at the owners, so I think these [regulations] are bowing to public pressure more than anything. But it's a good step," Vincent Easton, director of sales at Sherwoods, said.

"Service charges should reflect accurately the level of maintenance received and I don't think that has really been the case," Easton added.

However, some residents believe that there should be a standard rate of service charges across the board.

Developers and managers of jointly owned properties must continue to manage such properties until the general assembly at which point they must present a formal budget for consideration of the owners.

Each Owner's Association will appoint a general manager responsible for administrative, financial and secretarial issues. Each general manager will then need to obtain a licence from Rera and show they are qualified to manage an Owner's Association. Developers will have six months from the date the regulations are issued to register owners associations. If they fail to do this, owners themselves will be able to register the owners association at the developer's expense.

An online system developed by Rera, specifically for the registration of owner's associations, would also be made available for use from March 15.

What is Owner's Association? 

- Owner's Association is made up of owners in apartments or villas in a registered jointly-owned property. 

- The Owner's Association is responsible for administering and maintaining common areas of their building or villa community. 

- Owners will be able to look at financial statements of the Owner's Association and check expenses.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10287130.html


----------



## bizzybonita

Rental Index will be updated to reflect current market conditions


Saturday, February 07, 2009


*The new rental index is likely to be updated in three months time, in accordance with the current market conditions, revealed a top official in Dubai's RERA (Real Estate Regulatory Authority).*

The index, which is more of a guide to landlords and tenants in Dubai, was scheduled to be re-published every six months.

The Chief Executive of RERA, Marwan bin Ghalita, who spoke to the media on Thursday, mentioned that the new index is likely to be published in two to three months time. This initiative comes, when rents in the city have begun to fall dramatically from its peak during mid-2008. The Dubai rental index which has been released now is based on the figures during that period.

Ghalita said that despite the drop in rents, Dubai still offers good rental yields of up to 10% of the value of property, in comparison to 2-3 percent in other countries.


----------



## bizzybonita

Ajman property market considered more lucrative than Dubai

Saturday, February 14, 2009

The emirate of Ajman is turning out to be a lucrative destination for buying opportunities, as rates have fallen as low as Dh.299 per square foot, from the Dh.600 per square foot rate that prevailed six months ago.

Although majority of the bargains are in Dubai, Ajman is not far behind, with equally or even better opportunities, as it is oriented towards the mid-income sector.

It is possible to purchase apartments in Ajman for as little a price as Dh.299 per square foot, and one need not wait for years for completion of the project, as the waiting period for such apartments would be only three to six months.

Property prices in Ajman began at a much lower level than in Dubai, when the first project in Ajman was launched in 2004 for Dh.176 per square foot. The units at Al Khor Towers in Ajman are now selling at a rate of Dh.299 per square foot, which means that a double bedroom apartment in Ajman is currently Dh.542,000. Similarly, the units at Horizon Towers are priced at a starting price of Dh.345 per square foot, with a double bedroom apartment being sold at Dh.631,760.

This, when compared to Dubai, indicates that even few of the cheapest studios are worth Dh.447,430, implying a rate of Dh.883 per square foot for a 506 square foot studio at present.

Although property prices and rents have been dipping this year, Dubai still remains expensive. Potential buyers are still awaiting mortgages and home financing options to enter the market for them to make purchases, while investors in off-plan units are trying to cancel contracts, fearing their financial security. On the other hand, properties in Ajman are almost complete, offering more comfort to buyers.

According to Christina Cabading, the President of BSEL Infrastructure Realty, the developer of five towers in Emirates City of Ajman, people are now seeking affordable places to live. Hence, even for people living in Dubai, the focus is being shifted towards Ajman.

Ajman Real Estate Regulatory Agency (ARERA) offers additional comfort and security, having informed all developers in Ajman that they must own an office in Ajman, and it is not sufficient if they just own an office in Dubai. The Agency however, has cautioned buyers to be diligent when considering low-priced properties.

The COO of Cirrus Developments, Rehan Khan, has urged investors focusing on extremely low-priced properties to check out if the developer has assured a trust account (Escrow) to protect their funds, and bring in quality in the project, as that would determine the rent or re-sale value in future.


----------



## Imre

bizzybonita said:


> The Chief Executive of RERA, Marwan bin Ghalita, who spoke to the media on Thursday, mentioned that the new index is likely to be published in two to three months time.


why need 2-3 months for publishing the index?

Is it a really difficult job? :lol:


----------



## bizzybonita

^^Unfortunately , he waiting us to change title to #Topped Out for hes tower , i guess in Bussiness Bay LOL

so he need at least 2-3 months with good progress of course . let us wait and see .

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=707950


----------



## gerald.d

Imre said:


> why need 2-3 months for publishing the index?
> 
> Is it a really difficult job? :lol:


It's probably quite difficult keeping up with rents that are dropping at around 5K a week!


----------



## bizzybonita

UAE likely to bail out real estate firms: EFG-Hermes


Leading investment bank in the Middle East, EFG-Hermes, yesterday said that UAE plans to bail out real estate companies in the country, and may restrict the flow of new supplies, amidst the slowdown in property sector.

The government is yet to reveal plans for the real estate sector, although it is known that a federal plan is in the agenda, said the Bank.

The real estate index of the Bank, reveal that advertised prices in Dubai have fallen 8percent during the past few months. The transactional prices have fallen by as much as 35 to 50 percent in Downtown Burj Dubai, Dubai Marina and Palm Jumeirah.

The government aims to restrict the number of housing units coming on stream. According to the Bank, the number of housing units to be released this year will be less than half of the original forecast of 70,000 units.

Last week, Morgan Stanley, the global financial services firm, said that property prices have fallen by an average of 25 percent, since its peak in September last year, and that about $263bn worth of projects have been either delayed or cancelled in UAE.

More than 50 percent of construction projects in the UAE, constituting a total of $582bn worth projects, are currently suspended, revealed ProLeads, the Dubai-based research firm, last week.
The once-booming property sector in Dubai, have been hit hard during recent months, by the fall in property prices, job redundancies, or projects being scaled back by the developers.


----------



## smussuw

Imre said:


> why need 2-3 months for publishing the index?
> 
> Is it a really difficult job? :lol:


The index is updated every 6 months as far as I know.


----------



## mrobbie

How will this help the current situation though? Restrict the number of properties coming on the market, however without banks lending, few people will be able to buy anyway?


----------



## Imre

smussuw said:


> The index is updated every 6 months as far as I know.


Yes , I know but now the market moving very fast, monthly update would be better and when the market stabilized they can go back for the every 6 months system.


----------



## peacesells

luluprovence said:


> well i can only go by what I read in the OA which clearly states that in addition from the developer shoving his fat self for the first year with a possibility of getting parole for the 2nd year there was no independence per se for the unit owners at all. i mean what is to stop the developer with all their questionnable resources to make himself look fit when in fact he is fat and slimy - so as to get a clean bill and thus vote his questionnable Manager for the second year?
> 
> my worst nightmare: just imagine if any developer and /or his croonies own 60% of the building - they'd be puking themselves with ecstacy because in effect they'd be living forever and ever and ever... outdoing the cockroaches, the vampires and basically resurrecting themselves year after year after year... it fatigues the imagination. and I hope that this does not become a property nightmare on elm street part 1/2/3/4/5/ x infinity.
> :jk:
> 
> i'm sure that rera and / or the dld will not allow this. and i honestly believed that a strata law was in place?
> 
> p.s. yes i did read about the thug-like men blocking the entrance. it beggars belief. were there some others in JLT also who had their charges blown for AED 4/- to AED 28/-?


Yes, it is true that some contracts stipulate the developer as the maintenance provider for the first year. However, I do not believe this lets them charge whatever they want and I am sure this 'forced' appointment can be subjected to same scrutiny as a fair one.

Similarly, if they do own a lot of apartments in the building (and hence have a great say as to who runs it), the accounts of the appointed company are still to be audited and at the end of the day, even if they do try and cook the books, common sense will prevail if this practice is brought forward to RERA.


----------



## desertmaster

Imre said:


> Yes , I know but now the market moving very fast, monthly update would be better and when the market stabilized they can go back for the every 6 months system.


yes they will take Jan09 rental rates and release it in april 09 like they took aug 2008 rates and released it in Jan 09 . Good Strategy ....what else does an investor want this is a better stimulus package they giving youjust by typing some numbers on an excel sheet :nuts:


----------



## peacesells

Maha said:


> You still don't see the big picture and still think that real estate is the issue here.
> 
> Moreover, I can not believe you said _"putting 'national security' as a greater priority"_  just tell me: where on earth is there anything, to any country, more important than national security :bash:
> 
> Why on earth do you think that "_what investors want_" should be on the top of their priority list and "_national security_", "_what they want_", "_what their people want_" and "_what their greater interest is_" should be lower down the list? :nuts:
> 
> I'm an expat and I would personally benefit from a permanent residency visa right now; but I actually agree with them, they have more important issues on the line here, issues so important that the economy will seem like a dispensable luxury.
> 
> I actually think that selling freehold property to every being that walked the Earth was a mistake that Dubai may pay for heavily in the future.


No, I think I DO see the big picture. First, the reason d'etre of UAE government is to preserve and promote the interests and well-being of their people and the issue here is this - does visa/residency for foreigners achieve this? I say, and many here agree - yes, because of many reasons put forth already in this thread. They seem to think not but it is a mystery why. Second, lets agree that 'National security' in UAE is NOT the same issue, not even close, as 'national security' in US or Russia or China or any other country with significant military and political muscle, so surely 'national security', as far as I'm concerned, is NOT a valid reason IMO.


----------



## peacesells

bizzybonita said:


> Ajman property market considered more lucrative than Dubai
> 
> Saturday, February 14, 2009
> 
> The emirate of Ajman is turning out to be a lucrative destination for buying opportunities, as rates have fallen as low as Dh.299 per square foot, from the Dh.600 per square foot rate that prevailed six months ago.


Hahaha you must be a complete idiot to buy a property for that low and expect it to be delivered. I still can't believe people actually bought property in Ajman even back in the day. hno:


----------



## dbxdude

:lol::lol:


bizzybonita said:


> Ajman property market considered more lucrative than Dubai
> 
> Saturday, February 14, 2009
> 
> The emirate of Ajman is turning out to be a lucrative destination for buying opportunities, as rates have fallen as low as Dh.299 per square foot, from the Dh.600 per square foot rate that prevailed six months ago.
> 
> Although majority of the bargains are in Dubai, Ajman is not far behind, with equally or even better opportunities, as it is oriented towards the mid-income sector..


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yes after getting burned in Dubai investors will queue up to buy in Ajman:lol::lol: what gets printed in newspapers if fvcking hillarious.... 

And as for Abu Dhabi letting Dubai go to the wall.... Do they really think that will not ruin them? I mean if you invested in a property in Dubai or a Business and the city basicly collapsed and Abu Dahbi didnt lifet a finger - would you really invest in Abu Dhabi or eve n anywere in the Middle East... Abu Dhabi will bail Dubai out big time cause if they dont it will ruin them.... just wait... billionX billions on the way


----------



## dbxdude

THEPOINT said:


> OK Dude let me see them ? Sea views 20th floor cmon 800 aed psf ??


Sadly... its not much of a proplem if your a cash buyer infact... 

Dubai marina can be found for 800-1000psf (DEC)
Palm J for 900-1000psf (Golden mile)
Villas for 400-600psf (green community, JV)

I think we will see appartments in Marina for around 500dhs psf within 18 months - a similar price to severly ditressed property in Miami. 

We havent even begun to see mortage defaults and constuction profit defaults... wait for a few hundred expats to go to jail for bouncing cheques to tamweel and amlak - then you will get the true picture AS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE FLEE.... a collapse of confidence will make a credit crunch look insignificant

Its clearly evident now that the US and UK may take 5 to 10 (!!!!) years to get out of this DEPRESSION

Of course this may not happen if action is taken quickly, Im talking re capitilsation of banks, nationalisation of all property developers, issueing of bonds in lue of money paid for BS projects that will never be built and the forgiveness of mortage debt.... that will take Abu Dhabi to wake up and do something b4 the the UAE and then Middle East experinces a mass exodes of its Expat population - if thats what they want...


----------



## nisha

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Employment/10287162.html

Ministry of Labour regulates sacking of UAE nationals in private sector

By Wafa Issa, Staff Reporter
Published: February 18, 2009, 13:31

Dubai: The Ministry of Labour on Wednesday passed a decision regulating the termination of UAE nationals in the private sector.

According to the decision, Emiratis in UAE private sector cannot be terminated from service for flimsy reasons and the company should prove that the workers are not efficient and have violated labour laws.


----------



## dbxdude

peacesells said:


> Hahaha you must be a complete idiot to buy a property for that low and expect it to be delivered. I still can't believe people actually bought property in Ajman even back in the day. hno:


your forgetting, Ajman is very close to RAK which will shortly have a Spaceport.... once regular trips to the moon are avilable property prices in this region will shoot up. Just you wait... UAQ, Ajman, RAK, those will be the places to be.


----------



## Imre

Press Release

*Dubai Land Department’s ‘Initial Registration System’ makes strong impact at the ‘International Property Show - Dubai 2009’*

Event successfully hosts specialized ‘Consultancy Zones’ to assist property buyers and investors

February 18, 2009

The Dubai Land Department’s ‘Initial Registration System’ has made a strong impact among real estate investors during the 'International Property Show - Dubai 2009', which concluded its successful three-day run yesterday (February 17, 2009). The event, which also hosted specialized ‘Consultancy Zones’ to assist property buyers, has helped visitors gain a deeper insight on the new system that mandates the registration of incomplete sale transactions for the residential units that are still in their planning stages within the database of the Dubai Land Department (DLD). Organizers have attested to the positive turnout at the show, especially given the exhibition's association with the Dubai Land Department.

Under the system, a certificate that reflects the purchase and rates of the settled and remaining payments will be issued to ensure the investors’ rights to property. Subsequently, the DLD will issue an ownership certificate after the delivery of the property and when the payment has been settled completely. The ‘Initial Registration System’ has been designed to boost activities within the real estate market by developing and expanding the database and making current information easily accessible for the full use of players within the real estate market. The launch of this system is in line with the DLD’s goals to have a fully registered market that upholds the rights of the developers and buyers. 

“Creativity and innovation in the registration services are our major focus in Dubai Land Registration, as part of our commitment towards regulating the industry and protecting the rights of all concerned parties,” said Mohammad Sultan Thani, Assistant Director-General for Excellence and Governance, Dubai Land Department. “The ‘Initial Registration System’ is considered a unique initiative on the international level, as the practice of property registration in most countries is done only for the built properties. By facilitating the initial registration according to the sale operation on map, we can provide coverage for all the sales operations and ensure all the stakeholders’ rights are protected.”

In addition, the Department has also hosted a discussion on the importance of initial registration between industry leaders present at the ‘International Property Show - Dubai 2009’. Several investors and one of the beneficiaries of the system have expressed their confidence that the ‘Initial Registration System’ will minimise the problems between the developers, investors and buyers, and will reduce the high costs and expenses of sale and resale of properties on maps. It was also revealed during the discussion that the fee for the ‘Initial Registration System’ is the same as the fee required for buyers and sellers (both at 1 per cent) to register to the Department prior to this new system.

“Dubai’s ‘Initial Registration Law’ is truly a great model for all property markets across the globe, as it restricts the main and the subsidiary real state development companies to start the implementation of their projects or sell their properties on map before the delivery of the project’s land and receipt of the required approvals. It also prohibits them from charging fees on the sale and resale of existing properties or properties that are sold on the map, as this law only permits the charging for administrative expenses after taking the approval of Dubai Land Department,” concluded Thani.


----------



## dbxdude

yes, apparently the credit crisis and property correction is now well and truely over - i read it in the Gulfnews. pheeew that was close.


----------



## Wannaberich

dbxdude said:


> Abu Dhabi will bail Dubai out big time


If I've read this once I've read it a thousand times.
When !!!!?????


----------



## dbxdude

Wannaberich said:


> If I've read this once I've read it a thousand times.
> When !!!!?????


They are doing it now. . . How else did Dubai service its national debt. If Dubai defaulted on a loan then you would know about it, interest rates at 20+%, appartments at 200dhs psf etc.... banks going bang every day... They are activly bailing them out now. . . The lights are still on so they must be:cheers:


----------



## peacesells

Imre said:


> Press Release
> 
> *Dubai Land Department’s ‘Initial Registration System’ makes strong impact at the ‘International Property Show - Dubai 2009’*


Speaking of... 

I was visiting the Land Department / RERA this afternoon for some routine stuff. After the usual wondering-around-asking-random-people-who-does-what-here, I found my way to the legal department. There were at least 15 people squeezed into this office, mostly looking tired and lost. The administration girl was helplessly fighting people off, and when I asked if she could help me, she politely declined, citing her peronal inability to help herself (I'm serious!). She did point out the right person out of the crowd eventually and when I asked him if we could chat, with a 'are you blind?' look on his face, suggested I come back some other time. Thankfully, my inquiry was simple enough and we agreed to exchange e-mails. 

My journey took me down to another area, where I overheard a lady approach the gentleman at the reception regarding a refund for a cancelled JVS project. Nonsense, said the gentleman and a passing senior manager confirmed - NOT ONE project is yet officially cancelled and if this one is, the developer is supposed to send RERA an official notice, only then will you be able to get money (if there's any left) from the escrow account. 

:nuts:


----------



## Imre

Soup_Nazi said:


> Expect some really big news in the coming 3-4 weeks if not sooner.


:cheers:


----------



## dbxdude

THEPOINT said:


> OK Dude let me see them ? Sea views 20th floor cmon 800 aed psf ??


Got this mail today - mass mailer - im not buying cash, im not looking for a deal but here im close to 1000psf, i bet in the cominig months or with a cash deal you could get 800psf full sea view. 

HOT OFFERS from the “JBR” Specialist



2 bed
35th floor
Partial Sea Views
1400 sq. feet
Price: 1,650,000 aed


----------



## dbxdude

House prices in HongKong down 40% in last quarter. 

We are not alone


----------



## tehsin123

dbxdude said:


> House prices in HongKong down 40% in last quarter.
> 
> We are not alone


Yes but all markets will bounce back in time, we may not. Its a matter of confidence and questionable regulatory structure. IMO.


----------



## dbxdude

George Soros made an interesting point.... we always assume prices will bounce back in every market - his point is all assumptions are a mistake. He predicts no bounce for stocks and property is a probability not a possibilitiy. :cheers:


----------



## THEPOINT

dbxdude said:


> Got this mail today - mass mailer - im not buying cash, im not looking for a deal but here im close to 1000psf, i bet in the cominig months or with a cash deal you could get 800psf full sea view.
> 
> HOT OFFERS from the “JBR” Specialist
> 
> 
> 
> 2 bed
> 35th floor
> Partial Sea Views
> 1400 sq. feet
> Price: 1,650,000 aed


I bought some "partial seaview" JBR's at 1000 aed psf in DEC 2007 -the correction is not that bad - if people bought at 2000 aed psf the corection is BAD - but people shouldn't have bought at 2000 aed psf 
"Proper" Seaviews at 800 aed psf is NOT GONNA HAPPEN


----------



## 234sale

dbxdude said:


> House prices in HongKong down 40% in last quarter.
> 
> We are not alone


I nearly bought a house in the UK that was selling in the Summer for 300K,, I offered 175K cash,, it was rejected and sold for 200K, some is now buying it with a mortgage. Sale still hasn't gone thought though.

Its not just Dubai,, Everywhere.

Cash is now King.....


----------



## dbxdude

yes, u can buy a 2 bed in canary walf, theams view - 200k gbp or about 1m dhs. property prices have the potential to drop here much more.


----------



## Imre

*Dubai Naturalisation and Residency Department offers online visa service *

Dubai: Applicants of visas online, either from the UAE or abroad, will be notified via e-mail or text messages on the issuance of entry permits through the new e-service of Dubai Naturalisation and Residency Department (DNRD). 

Major General Mohammad Ahmad Al Merri, Director General of DNRD, said the mobile visa service would reduce the number of visitors to DNRD offices as all applications would be issued online. 

Lieutenant Colonel Khalid Al Rozooki, Assistant Director of DNRD for IT Sector, said 60 per cent of the DNRD services are now online. 

"The M-visa service is set to provide fast and best quality services to customers via web connection and mobile phones," he said. 

First Lieutenant Khalid Bin Madea Al Falasi, Manager of Electronic Projects Department at DNRD, said customers applying for entry permits either by visiting DNRD offices or by using online applications at www.ednrd.ae must pay specific amount in order to receive their visa via e-mail or text message. 

When their visa is issued, customers will be notified through an e-mail message, which will include an original e-visa document, bearing the DNRD logo and signature of the director. The PDF file will be secure to prevent any tampering with the details of the visitor. 

Customers will also receive an SMS notification containing the same barcode printed on the original visa document in a 2D format, as well as key information about the visitor and the sponsor. 

The UAE-based sponsor will receive the notification at the same time. SMS messages can be forwarded to any destination around the world. 

Upon arrival at any of the entry points, the barcode scanner installed at the DNRD checkpoints will read the details of the entry permit directly from the mobile device of the visitor. 

UAE visitors will also be able to track online their applications again and request e-mails and text messages to be resent according to their convenience.

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Immigration_and_Visas/10287174.html


----------



## peacesells

dbxdude said:


> George Soros made an interesting point.... we always assume prices will bounce back in every market - his point is all assumptions are a mistake. He predicts no bounce for stocks and property is a probability not a possibilitiy. :cheers:


Link to article?


----------



## dbxdude

His new book. Google. When i heard it he was talking on CNN


----------



## Imre

found the website:

*When do I need to pay a security deposit? * 

1. The AED2000 security deposit is payable for female visitors from the following countries :
*Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco *(no deposit is payable for men and children under 18).

2. All male and female visitors from *Iraq *must pay the AED2000 deposit (No deposit payable for children under 18).


----------



## Hanna

*Property Visa Law ABU DHABI*

Property Visa Law on the Way in March 
Ahmed Abdul Azizand Martin Croucher 

18 February 2009 Print E-mail 

ABU DHABI — New laws to grant six-month residency visas to individuals who buy freehold properties will be ready next month, a top Ministry of Interior official said on Tuesday.The ministry is also studying the possibility of granting residency visas to the families of property owners.The move comes amid a 20 per cent decline in property prices and a predicted fall of up to 50 per cent in some areas by the end of the year. “We are working on this draft to unify and streamline the procedures of issuance of residency visas for expatriates who purchase properties such as flats, offices, and shops,” said Brigadier Nassir Al Awadi Al Menhali, Acting Director-General of the Federal Naturalisation and Residency Department.“They will get a six-month visa which can be renewed.”Al Menhali said that details of the law, such as how much the renewal would cost, have not yet been worked out.“It couldn’t come at a better time for the market,” said Vincent Easton, head of sales at Sherwoods, a property consultant firm. “I’m just confused about why it is only six months. It seems more like a visit visa.”Previously, developers in Dubai had tried to entice prospective buyers from Pakistan and Iran by saying they could sponsor them for a three-year visa. However, problems arose when the application for residency was rejected by the Naturalisation and Residency Department (NRD).In Abu Dhabi, a few developers had offered sponsorship to homebuyers.
Al Menhali said that there is no codified law which automatically grants expatriates residency if they purchase properties. He added that it is better to standardise the procedure across the entire country rather than some emirates applying different rules.
“It is not acceptable that every emirate has its own law or regulation because there is a federal law of naturalisation and residency that should be followed by all NRDs countrywide.”B. R. Shetty, head of the NMC Group of companies, welcomed the decision to introduce a unified property law, and to grant visas to property owners irrespective of their employment status.
“These are timely decisions. Both these steps will boost investor confidence, and will remove uncertainties in the property market. People across the globe who have come here will now be tempted to make the UAE their second home as this is also a zero-tax country. They will now be encouraged to stay here even after their retirement to start business or consultations or any such activities,’’ Shetty said.
Surjit Singh, another prominent Indian industrialist, who also owns property in the UAE, said the unified property law would help narrow property price discrepancies across the emirates.He said the move indicated the rulers’ concern for the interests of the expatriate community.


----------



## dbxdude

How silly that different emirates have different laws. Is it 1 country or 7?


----------



## Imre

General Motors bankruptcy soon?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601170&refer=home&sid=apjpHkpbgY1s


----------



## Hanna

*Defaults !*

Wednesday 18 Feb, 2009 7days


Investors and home buyers in the UAE may default on payments for uncompleted properties, creating a liability for developers of as much as $25 billion, UBS said. “In our view investors are, and will continue to, default,” Dubai-based UBS real estate and construction analyst Saud Masud said. 

“Our assessment... is based on the cost to developers to finish properties should investors default on the upcoming supply of 140,000 units.
“We estimate this liability to be roughly $20 to $25 billion over the next two years.” In conservative estimates, 30 per cent of residential properties may be empty by the end of next year as the population falls and the risk of oversupply increases, Masud added.


----------



## gerald.d

THEPOINT said:


> I bought some "partial seaview" JBR's at 1000 aed psf in DEC 2007 -the correction is not that bad - if people bought at 2000 aed psf the corection is BAD - but people shouldn't have bought at 2000 aed psf
> "Proper" Seaviews at 800 aed psf is NOT GONNA HAPPEN


I'll quote this post twice. 

Once now, and again in 12 weeks' time. 

If you're right, I'll buy you a beer. 

If you're wrong, you buy me one. 

Deal?


----------



## FWIW

dbxdude said:


> Got this mail today - mass mailer - im not buying cash, im not looking for a deal but here im close to 1000psf, i bet in the cominig months or with a cash deal you could get 800psf full sea view.
> 
> HOT OFFERS from the “JBR” Specialist
> 
> 
> 
> 2 bed
> 35th floor
> Partial Sea Views
> 1400 sq. feet
> Price: 1,650,000 aed


To me this sounds a bargain. Quick *** packet calcs:
That whould rent out at approx 160,000 aed pa. Approx 10% roi excluding service charges, rental charges, etc, etc. e.g pays for itself in 10 years.
Rented out at 80,000 aed pa will be 5% roi. e.g. pays for itself in 20 years.

If I had any spare money (no borrowed money etc) I would go for it and negotiate hard!


----------



## dbxdude

not if 50% of the population leaves. . . .


----------



## rexdmx

Imre said:


> General Motors bankruptcy soon?


they are supposed to give their final findings shortly along with chrysler to the govt officials.


----------



## peacesells

rexdmx said:


> they are supposed to give their final findings shortly along with chrysler to the govt officials.


I really hope, for everyone's sake, they let these two fall. Helping companies like these out is like spraying s*** with perfume and hoping it will someday become edible again. At taxpayers' expense.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ it is slightly more complicated than that... there are a lot of supply chain business who would be affected due to falling order. there is also the question of the enormously large labour force who would have to be taken care of. the unions there are not known for their smiles.of course bankruptcy isn't so bad...besides they helped chrysler(or another car company) in the past and they did make money before this mess started again


----------



## THEPOINT

peacesells said:


> I really hope, for everyone's sake, they let these two fall. Helping companies like these out is like spraying s*** with perfume and hoping it will someday become edible again. At taxpayers' expense.


Good analogy LOL -and I agree


----------



## Wannaberich

rexdmx said:


> ^^ it is slightly more complicated than that... there are a lot of supply chain business who would be affected due to falling order. there is also the question of the enormously large labour force who would have to be taken care of. the unions there are not known for their smiles.of course bankruptcy isn't so bad...besides they helped chrysler(or another car company) in the past and they did make money before this mess started again


Apparantly if the big 3 car makers in the US went bust,this would affect the jobs of 3 million people in total.


----------



## skdubai

the flip side is that, all those years of rot have made those business quite un viable!! they need a radical shift in strategy and they do not seem capable of doing it!! 

So whats the point of propping them up when in a few months time, they will be right back in front of the government begging for more!!!


----------



## FWIW

People - what you are seeing in front of your very own eyes is the shift of power from West to East. 

Dubai as a gateway will hopefully do well...for all our sakes.


----------



## luluprovence

-----------------


----------



## tehsin123

FWIW said:


> People - what you are seeing in front of your very own eyes is the shift of power from West to East.
> 
> Dubai as a gateway will hopefully do well...for all our sakes.


Even after all this, what makes you think that? hno:


----------



## FWIW

tehsin123 said:


> Even after all this, what makes you think that? hno:


I have hope and I believe. You start from there then see what happens. If you roll over and think you are defeated, then you have already lost.

When you look at where Dubai was 50 years ago, 10 years ago and where it is now it must inspire you?

Once this economic cloud passes, Dubai will come back stronger than ever and people will once again start to resume their lives.


----------



## bizzybonita

^^ so deep thought , i am second to that !


----------



## 234sale

Message from a Dubai Real Estate Agency............

We have just taken on a few apartments for resale at Sky Gardens, a ready building in the Dubai International Financial Centre at an amazing price of 2000 AED per sqft. Similar units are being sold direct from the developer between 4000-5000 AED per sqft, therefore, this is an excellent opportunity to purchase apartments in the heart of DIFC at 50% the rate being charged by the developer. 

We have studios, 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom apartments available, prices start at AED 1,094,000 for a studio (547 sqft). Should this be of interest to you, please let me know and I will send you further details.


----------



## mission

I think the market is gonig to bottom out in April. We have been in panic mode for last 12 weeks and i think another couple of months will do it.

There is people out there with money waiting to get on the dubai ladder. e.g People who missed out last time. Dubai is and will be a fantastic investment. 

Buy Buy Buy ........... Does anyone have any money???????? Imre, you are usually loaded


----------



## mission

De


----------



## High Times

What logic are you using to predict the bottom of the RE market in Dubai in April ?

US housing market has been in freefall since May 2006 and only now is showing signs of softening. *Nearly 3 years negative.*

UK housing market decline started in August 2007 and is still falling. *2 years this summer.*

Dubai started it's decline in September 2008. *6 months so far 9 in April.*

I am interested to know why April or is it just a guess ?


----------



## skdubai

The bottom will be when an average guy who earns 15-20 k a month can reasonably afford to buy 1 BR in a decent locality..... at this point, i do not really see that! 

apart from discovery gardens and International city (YUCK) everything else is wayyyyyy too overpriced! i do not honestly see how you can say that the market will suddenly turn around in April. You have to remember this market has to be turned around by end users this time around and not "investors" so i am not nearly as optimistic!!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

skdubai said:


> The bottom will be when an average guy who earns 15-20 k a month can reasonably afford to buy 1 BR in a decent locality..... at this point, i do not really see that!



20k * 12 months = 240k anual salary

Maximum mortgage of 4 x salary = AED 960,00

So he can buy a 1 or even 2 bed in Dubai Marina or JLT for AED 1.2m with that now as follows:

Deposit of 20% = 240,000
Mortgage of 80% = 960,000

Prices are OK now. Problem is mortgage financing.


----------



## smussuw

skdubai said:


> The bottom will be when an average guy who earns 15-20 k a month can reasonably afford to buy 1 BR in a decent locality..... at this point, i do not really see that!
> 
> apart from discovery gardens and International city (YUCK) everything else is wayyyyyy too overpriced! i do not honestly see how you can say that the market will suddenly turn around in April. You have to remember this market has to be turned around by end users this time around and not "investors" so i am not nearly as optimistic!!


exactly, my thought !


----------



## skdubai

i said someone who makes 20k not someone who has 20k disposable income

assume 10k disposable and then tell me!!!


----------



## smussuw

^^ and they are more likely earning 15k not 20k


----------



## Dubai_Steve

skdubai said:


> i said someone who makes 20k not someone who has 20k disposable income
> 
> assume 10k disposable and then tell me!!!


Banks lend at 4 x annual salary not 4x disposable income.

a AED 960,000 mortgage over 25 years at 5% interest = AED 5676 per month or only 28% of his net monthly income.

It is affordable now. No reason not to buy only the finance is not available from local banks.


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> What logic are you using to predict the bottom of the RE market in Dubai in April ?
> 
> US housing market has been in freefall since May 2006 and only now is showing signs of softening. *Nearly 3 years negative.*
> 
> UK housing market decline started in August 2007 and is still falling. *2 years this summer.*
> 
> Dubai started it's decline in September 2008. *6 months so far 9 in April.*
> 
> I am interested to know why April or is it just a guess ?


I would agree. 

Property cycles take years, not months, to turn. Also this one was triggered by the global financial meltdown. We will have to see signs of recovery in the West before we see anything good in Dubai, IMO.


----------



## High Times

Dubai_Steve said:


> Banks lend at 4 x annual salary not 4x disposable income.
> 
> a AED 960,000 mortgage over 25 years at 5% interest = AED 5676 per month or only 28% of his net monthly income.
> 
> It is affordable now. No reason not to buy only the finance is not available from local banks.


You are right with your calcs Steve,

Problem is the Mortgage market in Dubai is like it was in the Uk 20-30 years ago.

It needs to grow fast. Independent Brokers need to offer multi sourced deals. The whole mortgage market needs to expand. 

Now is not the easiest time to do this as lending the world over is a dirty word. Needs time 1-2 years probably.


----------



## 234sale

FYI 

Most UAE lenders calculate that your repayment must not exceed 50% of your income.

So Again Appox 3.5 - 4X Salary


----------



## HappyLarry

AltinD said:


> Of course if people get overexcited to buy at any price, they can also be overly-panicking to sell at any price. We have seen this all before with the Financial Market crash 3 or so years ago. Those were the times when everybody went into share buying mood that sent Emaar shares to the roof and then they collapsed and many people lost allot of money, including people who left their regular jobs to speculate (I intentionally didn't use "invest") in the stock market and then were forced to leave the city.


I have to say I am impressed. This is the longest post that I have seen from you in some time. Now, don't get excited and start banning. It's a compliment. :cheers:


----------



## 234sale

^^Must be a full moon tonight


----------



## HappyLarry

High Times said:


> Back in August 2008 i posted some stuff on prices and what areas i thought were overvalued and what i thought represented fair value.
> 
> Here is the post
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=24583616&postcount=6841
> 
> Here is an update of the numbers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All info was sourced at the same place just at different times.
> http://www.alineah.com/market_analysis.asp
> 
> Interesting to see whats taken the biggest hit and whats held up well.
> 
> I wonder where we will be in another 6 months time.


I am amazed that the alineah site is still in business. I wouldn't read to much into their figures. Most are skewed due to lack of data. I have seen same properties listed for over two years.


----------



## nisha

Dubai_Steve said:


> Banks lend at 4 x annual salary not 4x disposable income.
> 
> a AED 960,000 mortgage over 25 years at 5% interest = AED 5676 per month or only 28% of his net monthly income.
> 
> It is affordable now. No reason not to buy only the finance is not available from local banks.


But is anyone lending at 5%??


----------



## bizzybonita

IISinbadII said:


> I would agree.
> 
> Property cycles take years, not months, to turn. Also this one was triggered by the global financial meltdown. We will have to see signs of recovery in the West before we see anything good in Dubai, IMO.


As my basic knowledge said Recover U.S.A then U.K lead to Recover DUBAI unfortunately Gulf area can't jump without this basic except KSA " the Mortgage market so close to lunched + all bunks still healthy plus soon will be owned by KSA government " .

Oh and finally i heard about increasing of 2-5% of Sovereign funds ......Recovery here i am coming Oh sorry i mean liquidity !


----------



## Dubai_Steve

nisha said:


> But is anyone lending at 5%??


No this is the problem.

If we have to wait 1-2 years for UAE banks to get their act together before someone can buy a 1.2m 1 bed apartment then we can see that prices have a little way to fall still, which in turns scares off the bank from lending. The whole market depends on the banks and ultimately on those controlling the banks.


----------



## FWIW

Here are some loan rates from Jan 2009 BetterHomes magazine.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

smussuw said:


> ^^ and they are more likely earning 15k not 20k


^^ So lets choose Barclays as an example. 

7.45% for 25 years with no redemption free (so remortgaging later to a cheaper deal is easy)

Some options for completed property from bhomes under 1m at full asking price.

1 bed in Lake City Towers, JLT 849,000
*20% deposit + Montly reypayment of 5055*

1 bed in Discovery Gardens 686,275
*20% deposit + Montly reypayment of 4086*

1 bed in Manchester Tower, Dubai Marina 880,000
*20% deposit + Montly reypayment of 5239*

1 bed in Concorde Tower, JLT 945,888
*20% deposit + Montly reypayment of 5632*

So quite a few options are available now for AED 4000 to AED 5500 per month or less than 33% of their salary of 15k per month.

Much better than renting I think!


----------



## mission

High Times said:


> What logic are you using to predict the bottom of the RE market in Dubai in April ?
> 
> US housing market has been in freefall since May 2006 and only now is showing signs of softening. *Nearly 3 years negative.*
> 
> UK housing market decline started in August 2007 and is still falling. *2 years this summer.*
> 
> Dubai started it's decline in September 2008. *6 months so far 9 in April.*
> 
> I am interested to know why April or is it just a guess ?


I feel that everything is starting to stable a bit in the housing market. Just because USA and UK had a long term decline does not mean this will happen to Dubai. Dubai in April to September is always the best time to sell or rent your property (this what i was told). I do not have any hard facts it just a gut feeling

Us UK based investors should not really be worried about the price decline as we will make it back on the exchange rate. Soon as the prices go up again i bet that the pound will go strong against the dirham and we will be in the same place price wise.


----------



## Imre

gerald.d said:


> Parking spaces.
> 
> I was looking at apartments for rent in JLT today, and in one tower, there was a notice up by the lifts offering parking places for sale at 60,000Dhms.
> 
> Absolute bargain, and realistically looking at a potential 15>20% yield in my view.



yes, most of people think that is just joke but one day the DMCC will ask money for parking and they have to pay because here is no other possibilities.

Dubai Marina is the same , we will see parking meters soon.


----------



## skdubai

on thing i have noticed only recently was when i was talking to my friend who's been living here for ages and has the cash to buy outright. I asked him why he doesn't just buy an apartment? and he says, well cuz i am worried that some day suddenly the govt. may change its mind and just kick me out of it! 

This is not the first time i heard this, but definitely shows that at least a few buyers are just sitting on the sidelines because of the trust issue....

but i wanted to know, is this a possibility? could they actually do that? i wouldnt ask this question in any other country, but have to ask in this case!


----------



## 234sale

Emiratis own loads overseas, look at London prime market. Last year 32% of harrods sales was to GCC nationals. Knightsbrige, Park Lane and Mayfair.... Lowest price AED sqft the highest here.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Well even in the very worst case, if they kick him out it will be registered with the land registry as his so he rent or sell it. Still better to buy a bargain now than waste money on rent.


----------



## Naz UK

skdubai said:


> on thing i have noticed only recently was when i was talking to my friend who's been living here for ages and has the cash to buy outright. I asked him why he doesn't just buy an apartment? and he says, well cuz i am worried that some day suddenly the govt. may change its mind and just kick me out of it!
> 
> This is not the first time i heard this, but definitely shows that at least a few buyers are just sitting on the sidelines because of the trust issue....
> 
> but i wanted to know, is this a possibility? could they actually do that? i wouldnt ask this question in any other country, but have to ask in this case!



That is just plain dumb. If the worst happened and let's say the Dubai government wanted all expats out, they'd at least give you a) the opp. to sell your apartment or b) a reasonable sum for it before you got kicked out! Even the UK's BNP/National Front had this as their policy of forced repatriation back in the 70's and 80's (I think it was £30,000 per family to go back to their own countries).

But I could also answer this another way. The only nation in the Middle East in the last 1000 years to have kicked out a bunch of people from their homes in the manner you suggest is that wonderful democracy called Israel. I'm sure Dubai wouldn't want to join that club given the identity of it's one and only current member.


----------



## speculator

skdubai said:


> on thing i have noticed only recently was when i was talking to my friend who's been living here for ages and has the cash to buy outright. I asked him why he doesn't just buy an apartment? and he says, well cuz i am worried that some day suddenly the govt. may change its mind and just kick me out of it!
> 
> This is not the first time i heard this, but definitely shows that at least a few buyers are just sitting on the sidelines because of the trust issue....
> 
> but i wanted to know, is this a possibility? could they actually do that? i wouldnt ask this question in any other country, but have to ask in this case!


YEAH so that the locals, who total about 256, can enjoy the city to themselves. Aaaaa peace at last.:lol:


----------



## KingMoody

skdubai said:


> on thing i have noticed only recently was when i was talking to my friend who's been living here for ages and has the cash to buy outright. I asked him why he doesn't just buy an apartment? and he says, well cuz i am worried that some day suddenly the govt. may change its mind and just kick me out of it!
> 
> This is not the first time i heard this, but definitely shows that at least a few buyers are just sitting on the sidelines because of the trust issue....
> 
> but i wanted to know, is this a possibility? could they actually do that? i wouldnt ask this question in any other country, but have to ask in this case!


Legally yes they can, since the goverment owns most of the lands given to goverment owned developers (nakheel, emaar. deyaar), but historically Dubai never kicked out anybody just for the fun of it, and i dont think they are likely to do such a thing


----------



## austdec

*Falling mortgage rates?*

I spoke to a friend who works for ADCB - he indicated that mortgage rates will fall in the next few weeks in conjunction with rates they are offering for fixed-term deposits which have spiked sharply over the last 4-6 weeks. Anybody here had their mortgage rate cut in the last few days or have heard anything similar from their bank?

There are many examples globally of people who have "benefited" from the global crisis - if your job is secure and your mortgage repayments have been cut almost in half - this can result in a significant increase in disposable income at the end of each month. Certainly, most of this increase in disposable income people are trying to save now at the moment, but when confidence returns, this should help in a quicker recovery in consumption spending.


----------



## smussuw

5 Studios in international city for AED 1,600,000
1 studio in Discovery Gardens for AED 395,000


----------



## Bobby G

Good deals on those. And rental returns definitely 10%, which is quite attractive.


----------



## Tractor

2-bed in Marina Heights, fully furnished = 1million AED

Normally that would easily rent for 150,000 AED per year but even rents are getting hammered.

Average *asking* price on Marina now down to 1500 AED/sq ft


----------



## bizzybonita

Al Habtoor sees 'business as normal soon'


The boss of one of the UAE's biggest companies believes it will "soon be business as normal" for the country as it emerges from the global economic crisis.

Khalaf Al Habtoor, chairman of Al Habtoor Group which employs about 40,000 staff, made his comments during a meeting with Faris Roumi Al-Naimi, the Consul General of Qatar to discuss the impact of the showdown in Dubai.

Habtoor said: "We need to look beyond this dark financial landslide and look forward to a changed environment filled with new creative ideas from the many lessons we have learnt.

"Moving forward I strongly believe it will soon be business as usual. The UAE will withstand the global crisis because the emirates has come along way holding great strength and added that, it is this strength which will carry The UAE through this crisis.

Al-Naimi added: *"Dubai's real estate prices are still very reasonable compared to the other emirates and this is a good indication that even though Dubai has been affected it is not as serious as the way the media has portrayed it to be in the last few weeks."*

The Al Habtoor Group, while best known for construction, is also involved in the hotel, automotive, real estate, education, insurance and publishing sectors.

The Group’s construction division, Al Habtoor Engineering Enterprises (now part of the Al Habtoor Leighton Group), has created some of the world’s most famous landmarks including the Burj Al Arab and the Terminal 3 Concourse 2 project at Dubai International Airport.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/547405-al-habtoor-sees-business-as-normal-soon


----------



## bizzybonita

UAE's liquidity now in much better position, says Suwaidi 

A liquidity problem that hit UAE banks because of the global credit distress has largely eased as they have completely ceased using an emergency fund facility offered by the government, the Central Bank Governor said yesterday.

After withdrawing around Dh10 billion of the Dh50bn facility announced by the Central Bank in late 2008, the country's 52 banks have totally stopped their requests to benefit from those funds, Sultan bin Nassir Al Suwaidi said.

This facility has not been needed to a great extent at this point because liquidity is now better… At this time, the ratio of utilisation of this facility is zero, Suwaidi told reporters after signing an education agreement with a London institute.

Liquidity is now much better because markets are moving…they keep moving and changing and that is why sometimes you see huge liquidity, or high liquidity, or medium liquidity or small liquidity…the situation here is now much better and this is an indication that things are stabilising… I am not saying that the situation has greatly improved but there is better stability now.

Asked why banks are still cautious about resuming their normal lending activities, the Governor said: I think it takes time for the banks to feel comfortable… when they feel comfortable, they will resume lending.

Suwaidi said he was satisfied with the level of deposits with the UAE's 24 national banks and 28 foreign units.

Suwaidi said the UAE had taken measures to deal with the global economic crisis, referring to the Dh50bn facility offered by the Central Bank, the Dh70bn deposits by the federal government and the recent cash injections by the Abu Dhabi Government into the capital of five banks in the emirate.

There are always ways and means to deal with crises… The federal government and the Central Bank are putting the right programmes to manage the present situation… As you know that in economic crises, all countries try to manage the situation… I am sure the UAE will manage, he said.


----------



## Chuckles4

*Emaar's US Subsidiary files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy*

Less than three years ago, at the behest of Mr. Al Abbar, Emaar issued rights shares to existing shareholders at a premium to raise $1 billion to purchase California home builder John Laing Homes.

Yesterday, John Laing Homes filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection in Delaware.

What an absolute waste of $1 billion of shareholder funds!! And to think that Mr. Al Abbar is heading the committee that seeks to bring Dubai out of the financial mess it is in right now......unbelieveable!

And to those that say Abu Dhabi will definitely bail out Dubai.....Where is Abu Dhabi right now when Dubai needs it most??

Link to the news item in Businessweek:

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D96FCINO1.htm


----------



## Chuckles4

austdec said:


> I spoke to a friend who works for ADCB - he indicated that mortgage rates will fall in the next few weeks in conjunction with rates they are offering for fixed-term deposits which have spiked sharply over the last 4-6 weeks.


austdec.....That cannot be correct. Consider fixed-term deposits that banks offer as the cost of the funds that they lend out. In other words, banks borrow funds from one set of individuals (by taking fixed-term deposits) and lend those funds (with a multiplier that's around 30 to 40 times right now) to those who wish to borrow.

If fixed-term deposit rates have spiked, this means banks' cost of funds has gone up as well. So they will not decrease their lending rates. On the contrary, they will continue charging higher rates so long as their cost of funds remain high.

The only way banks' cost of funds will drop is if the Central Bank places huge deposits with them at zero (or near-zero) percent rates. 

They haven't done so as yet, and I don't see that happening anytime soon. As a matter of fact, the Central Bank may start taking equity stakes in UAE banks in return for placing funds with them.....this may be a good thing for banks, but I wonder how many of them will be willing to give up a share of ownership to the UAE government?


----------



## austdec

Chuckles your analysis is correct. Maybe my post wasnt clear. Fixed deposit rates have spiked over the last two months in the UAE but my contact at ADCB said that these high fixed deposit rates are set to fall at the end of this month - with these lower deposit rates, mortgage rates are too fall too. 

I hope this is the case as currently most home owners around the world, except for those in the UAE, have benefited from falling mortgage rates over the last 6 months.

:banana:


----------



## Imre

*Buyers trickle back into property*

Last Updated: February 21. 2009 7:58PM UAE / February 21. 2009 3:58PM GMT 

Property agents in Dubai say viewings and sales of completed property have increased in recent weeks. While most transactions are being completed with cash, banks appear to be regaining their nerve and are starting to approve mortgages. 
“There weren’t viewings for about two months but in the past 10 days, viewings have picked up, so there’s a bit of interest coming back to the market,” said Ronald Hinchey, a resident partner at Cluttons, a property consultant. “I think banks are possibly getting less nervous.”

Those now buying plan to live in the property. They are seeking homes they can afford as prices decline, according to Iseeb Rehman, the managing director of Sherwoods Independent Property Consultants.
Meanwhile, many owners who never intended to hold the properties until completion are selling as concerns mount that prices could fall further, agents said.

Mr Rehman said Sherwoods made about five sales in the past week, with sought-after areas being Dubai Marina, Discovery Gardens and Jumeirah Village.

“We have seen activity picking up and people have started to look around a lot more,” he said. “We’ve had some sales, whether it be ‘distressed sales’ taking place, but activity is definitely looking a lot more positive. The transactions have mainly been for ready properties and cash only.”

Mr Rehman said there had also been a rise in interest for office space, while more property had come on to the rental market as owners looked for a stable revenue stream.

Morgan Stanley said in a report earlier this month that property prices in Dubai had fallen by an average of 25 per cent since their peak in September.
The steepest falls have been in key developments such as Emaar’s Downtown Burj Dubai and Nakheel’s Palms Jumeirah and Jebel Ali.

A recent report by Landmark Advisory, a division of the property consultant Landmark Properties, forecasts that apartment prices will fall a further 20 per cent this year, with individual declines ranging between 10 per cent and 50 per cent, depending on the development. Average villa prices are likely to remain stable.

The report said that poor quality homes would bear the brunt of the price declines.
Other analysts predict price falls of up to 60 per cent this year.

According to Rima Moukarim, a property adviser at Choueri Real Estate, owners who may have held on to property in anticipation of a price recovery are now looking for a quick sale.

“There is more movement and there are more sales going on,” she said. “You may have three agents involved in one sale, but it’s still a good sign. Before, people thought prices would go back up again, but they’ve noticed they are really going down, so have decided to just cash in and go.”

About Dh2 billion (US$545 million) worth of mortgages have been registered with the Dubai Land Department this year, compared with Dh10bn during the same period last year, according to Mohammed Thani, the department’s assistant director general.
Still, Ms Moukarim said that banks were growing more confident about lending.
“RAK Bank is giving better mortgages now. Mortgage approval is more positive but it is taking time,” she said.

Mr Hinchey said that as banks resumed lending for property, they were expected to adopt a less stringent approval process.

The company’s mortgage valuation department is handling between 40 and 50 mortgage applications a month, compared with about 250 during the boom.
“Banks came to us and asked us to find them customers,” he said. “But when we did they wouldn’t lend to them because the customer didn’t fit their very strict criteria, but I think that’s changing now.”

Property experts also say the market needs to offer incentives to lure buyers back and instil confidence, such as providing permanent residence visas to freehold homeowners.

Last week, The National reported that a federal law granting residency visas to owners of freehold property would be introduced within the year. The proposal will allow owners to obtain a six-month, renewable residency visa.

Still, experts believe permanent visas are essential to attract serious, long-term investors.

“When people buy freehold property, the Government, not the developer, should give that person permanent residence for the rest of their lives, so long as they own that property,” said Mr Hinchey.

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090221/BUSINESS/4562337/1138


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai ruler embroiled in family feud*

Dubai ruler embroiled in family feud? 
Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:17:26 GMT 


A poster of Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum is seen on a building overlooking a construction site of residential buildings and offices in Dubai. 
Photos of Dubai's ruler and his sons have been taken off billboards across the UAE, fueling speculation of a rift within the family. 

Family photos of Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum and his two sons Rashid and Hamdan have been replaced by pictures portraying the emir alone. 

The changes across Dubai coincided with rumors that the ruler had been wounded during a row with his second son and heir to the throne, Sheikh Hamdan bin Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum. 

Sources familiar with the issue had previously claimed that Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum and his son had been at each others' throats for a long time. 

According to the sources, the global economic crisis, which has gripped the Persian Gulf emirate, has caused serious disagreements within the Al Maktoum family. 

Crown Prince Hamdan, nicknamed as Fazza, is demanding a more prominent role in Dubai's governance, a position his father is reluctant to give, the sources added. 

The economic recession which has spread from the United States to the rest of the world, has cast a shadow over the once-booming Persian Gulf emirate. 

Real estate prices have plunged in the city-state of Dubai, which was once dubbed as the Middle East's highest-profile commercial hub. 


What will that mean for confidence in Dubai !


----------



## jba

properganda^^ from a nation not too far from Dubai I wonder???

Are these the rumours that nobody wanted to repeat not so long ago?


----------



## smussuw

^^ There was a problem between him and his son that is for sure but the story probably got twisted, changed and propagated to what we are reading in this article.


----------



## mackie1964

smussuw said:


> ^^ There was a problem between him and his son that is for sure but the story probably got twisted, changed and propagated to what we are reading in this article.


Why is he so quite these days Smusuw? I love the guy but he is really worrying me these days :dunno:


----------



## jba

He has been very silent lately.

I can't belive however how quick his reputation and status has been knocked, people on this forum not long ago wouldn't have a bad word said againist him, now people are lineing up to have a go. (including his son it seems)!

I hope he gets a grip again soon including kicking his son back into touch and starts leading again or we are all f**ed!


----------



## smussuw

^^ What happened between him and his son happened like a year, or probably more. I don't believe the other shit in the article, like fazaa demanding more power, etc.



mackie1964 said:


> Why is he so quite these days Smusuw? I love the guy but he is really worrying me these days :dunno:


Well, it isn't his first time disappearing. I mean in occasions u'd find him everyday but in others he'd disappear for like 2 weeks.

I've decided to revive "The big boss is back to action" thread only for this reason.


----------



## jba

Whats the feeling like in Dubai towards Sheikh Mo these days?

Is he still as admired as he used to be?


----------



## Freestyler

jba said:


> properganda^^ from a nation not too far from Dubai I wonder???
> 
> Are these the rumours that nobody wanted to repeat not so long ago?


That means there is freedom of press here after all :lol:


----------



## Naz UK

I would guess the reason for his unusual silence is that the so called advisors he's had over the last few years have absolutely no clue as to what to do in a crisis. So I guess in a non-democracy, its far easier to just remain quiet and out of sight during a crisis, unlike poor Brown, who gets a daily pounding in the HoC and pretty much wherever else he goes probably.


----------



## Tractor

I guess he's scared to step out of his palace in case someone asks him what happened to 'no investor will lose money in Dubai'!!


----------



## Imre

*Emaar's US unit bankrupt *



Dubai: US homebuilder John Laing Homes - a subsidiary of Emaar Properties - has sought Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Thursday in the US Court for the District of Delaware, due to a sharp decline in home sales.

"John Laing Homes anticipates that the Chapter 11 process will allow it to significantly reduce debt from its balancesheet while facilitating a strategic reorganisation of the company, which will place it in the strongest possible position to sustain its momentum despite extremely challenging market conditions," Emaar said in an e-mailed statement, without elaborating.

The company listed assets of more than $1 billion (Dh3.678 billion) and debt of $500 million to $1 billion in Chapter 11 documents filed in the Bankruptcy Court in Delaware.

Emaar had bought the John Laing Homes in 2006 for $1.05 billion. 

John Laing Homes is one of the largest private home builders in the US, and the 31st largest overall, building condominiums, townhomes to residential communities and multi-million dollar luxury estates.

On February 12, Emaar said it has decided to write down its investment in John Laing Homes by Dh1.77 billion ($483 million) during the fourth quarter of 2008 "in order to be conservative in accounting for such an investment". 

Emaar officials were unavailable for comment.

In a statement issued earlier, Mohammad Al Abbar, chairman of Emaar Properties, said, "The primary focus of Emaar in the last quarter of the year was to mitigate the negative impact of the global financial crisis by facing up to the new economic realities and identifying innovative strategies to sustain businesses in an unprecedented downturn."

John Laing Homes said in court documents that it is exiting operations in Colorado, Texas and Arizona and plans to focus on its flagship homebuilding and luxury units in Southern California.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/General/10288394.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

...


----------



## Philippa C

I was speaking to a relocation specialist from a big company this morn. She said they are very busy with people moving to Dubai. She has 5 companies moving all their staff here in the next few weeks. 

We still don't know for sure how many people are leaving but if people are still coming things can't be so bad.


----------



## nxthenx

smussuw said:


> I'll definitely wait until Indian schools finish by March and when Arabic and English schools finish by June. Am not saying that this will be the right time to buy but I think they will be lower...


fully agree.


----------



## Adel

jba said:


> properganda^^ from a nation not too far from Dubai I wonder???
> 
> Are these the rumours that nobody wanted to repeat not so long ago?


Yes this is the rumour, but it has several versions and one of them involves Jordan.

I think non of this is true as he visited Bahrain after the rumours started to participate in an equestrian event and to apologize for cancelling Al Salam project by Sama Dubai in Bahrain.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=281884


----------



## gerald.d

*Dubai property market 'to recover in 2011'*



> Dubai property prices and rental rates are likely to start recovering in 2011, following a period of stabilisation in 2010, a global real estate firm said on Sunday.
> 
> Jones Lang LaSalle sees 2009 as a year of correction for Dubai’s property market amid the global economic downturn, with the emirate likely to be harder hit than other markets in the region due to its greater integration in the global economy.
> 
> “The impact of the global economic crisis on real estate markets in the GCC has been both sudden and dramatic,” the firm’s analysts wrote in a research note.
> 
> “While other markets across the region are likely to witness a similar shape to their cycle, the timing and magnitude will be somewhat different to that experienced in Dubai.”
> 
> The GCC real estate markets have come under increasing pressure as banks across the region stop lending in a bid to reduce their exposure to real estate, while developers are being hit hard by defaulting buyers and a debt market that has dried up.
> 
> But, Jones Lang LaSalle said that the downturn also presented significant investment opportunities - picking out the Abu Dhabi commmercial sector, middle income housing in Dubai and Saudi and Qatar as good options.
> 
> “Evidence from past corrections in other markets suggests those that act decisively during the downturn are best positioned to benefit from the subsequent recovery phase of the cycle,” the analysts said.
> 
> “Among the markets and sectors where we see continued opportunities for investors are the commercial sector in Abu Dhabi, middle income housing in Dubai and the Saudi and Qatar markets that have been less impacted by the global turmoil than others.”
> 
> The firm sees potential for other property markets in the region to experience a return to growth in 2010.
> 
> However, Dubai was likely to remain “handicapped” by the high levels of new supply until 2011, it said.


----------



## dbxdude

jba said:


> Whats the feeling like in Dubai towards Sheikh Mo these days?
> 
> Is he still as admired as he used to be?


By those with a brain - yes. He is still da man. Look around. Amazing achievements from an amazing guy. Sadly, not all the people around him are as gifted as he.....


----------



## Chuckles4

Imre said:


> *Emaar's US unit bankrupt *
> 
> "John Laing Homes anticipates that the Chapter 11 process will allow it to significantly reduce debt from its balancesheet while facilitating a strategic reorganisation of the company, which will place it in the strongest possible position to sustain its momentum despite extremely challenging market conditions," Emaar said in an e-mailed statement, without elaborating.


I had posted this news flash yesterday!

While Emaar believes the Chapter 11 process will give it the opportunity to reorganize itself, the very process of a Dubai company having to declare bankruptcy will be a very serious blow to other Dubai entities trying to raise capital in the international markets.

Indeed, Emaar's efforts to raise DIP financing will be seriously impaired, given the fact that Borse Dubai (another Dubai entity) could raise only $1 billion of the $4 billion it sought.


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> *Emaar's US unit bankrupt *
> 
> 
> 
> Dubai: US homebuilder John Laing Homes - a subsidiary of Emaar Properties - has sought Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Thursday in the US Court for the District of Delaware, due to a sharp decline in home sales.
> 
> "John Laing Homes anticipates that the Chapter 11 process will allow it to significantly reduce debt from its balancesheet while facilitating a strategic reorganisation of the company, which will place it in the strongest possible position to sustain its momentum despite extremely challenging market conditions," Emaar said in an e-mailed statement, without elaborating.
> 
> The company listed assets of more than $1 billion (Dh3.678 billion) and debt of $500 million to $1 billion in Chapter 11 documents filed in the Bankruptcy Court in Delaware.
> 
> Emaar had bought the John Laing Homes in 2006 for $1.05 billion.
> 
> John Laing Homes is one of the largest private home builders in the US, and the 31st largest overall, building condominiums, townhomes to residential communities and multi-million dollar luxury estates.
> 
> On February 12, Emaar said it has decided to write down its investment in John Laing Homes by Dh1.77 billion ($483 million) during the fourth quarter of 2008 "in order to be conservative in accounting for such an investment".
> 
> Emaar officials were unavailable for comment.
> 
> In a statement issued earlier, Mohammad Al Abbar, chairman of Emaar Properties, said, "The primary focus of Emaar in the last quarter of the year was to mitigate the negative impact of the global financial crisis by facing up to the new economic realities and identifying innovative strategies to sustain businesses in an unprecedented downturn."
> 
> John Laing Homes said in court documents that it is exiting operations in Colorado, Texas and Arizona and plans to focus on its flagship homebuilding and luxury units in Southern California.
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/General/10288394.html


I'm sure John Laing was originally a Scottish construction company which split into Housing and Civil Engineering. The Civil Engineering arm was bought out by O'Rourke for something like £1. It now forms a part of one of the largest construction firms in Dubai, Al Naboodah Laing O'Rourke. Laing ORourke is a major player in concrete structures in the UK.

I expect John Laing homes moved into USA by buying a troubled house builder that they thought they could turn around and Emaar had the same idea.


----------



## Chuckles4

gerald.d said:


> *Dubai property market 'to recover in 2011'*


Gerald.....Great article.

However, I believe the key sentence in this whole article is:



> The GCC real estate markets have come under increasing pressure as banks across the region stop lending in a bid to reduce their exposure to real estate, while developers are being hit hard by defaulting buyers and a debt market that has dried up.


Banks have massive loans outstanding with developers, contractors, and property-buyers.....most of whom are either unable to pay back the banks, or are paying back at a very slow pace.

Added to this is the flight of $50 billion last year, which severely restricted the capital that banks need to lend. The Central Bank's move to inject funds in the banking system did little to restore liquidity to the banks.

Finally, the UAE Central Banks (in a recent directive to all banks) is taking a close, hard look at loans over Dhs.10 million that banks have made, with a view to declaring such loans as non-performing if such loans have not been serviced. Such a move could also severely restrict banks' ability to lend.

Until the UAE Central Banks inject massive amounts (Dhs.200 billion or more) into the banking system, banks will be unable to do much of the large-scale lending they did until last year.


----------



## Chuckles4

True Blue said:


> I expect John Laing homes moved into USA by buying a troubled house builder that they thought they could turn around and Emaar had the same idea.


You are correct in that JL Homes moved to the US, and they were doing very well during the property boom in the US. Their great performance enticed Emaar to buy the company. Unfortunately for Emaar, they bought JL Homes at the peak of the property boom.....when the boom turned to bust, so did JL Homes and with it Emaar's investment of over $1 billion.

Besides, Emaar should never have gone into a market such as the US which they neither understand nor do they have the in-house capabilities to manage. A foolish foray which unfortunately cost investors a bunch of money and Emaar its reputation.


----------



## dbxdude

strangely their share price has not gone even lower.... 1.84 last time i looked:nuts:


----------



## Chuckles4

dbxdude said:


> strangely their share price has not gone even lower.... 1.84 last time i looked:nuts:


Correct....Closed at Dhs.1.89 today. However, comparatively low volumes and no bids. Not too many people are brave enough to buy into Emaar at present, I guess. And besides, their stock price has already been hammered to the ground, hasn't it? Hopefully it won't go lower than this level.....maybe Dhs.1.50 at its lowest.


----------



## dbxdude

The lowest a stock can go to is Zero..... always worth keeping that in mind...


----------



## Opus 2009

Chuckles4 said:


> Correct....Closed at Dhs.1.89 today. However, comparatively low volumes and no bids. Not too many people are brave enough to buy into Emaar at present, I guess. And besides, their stock price has already been hammered to the ground, hasn't it? Hopefully it won't go lower than this level.....maybe Dhs.1.50 at its lowest.


^^
Emaar needs to be congratulated on this bold step. It could have financially supported JLH, and thereby eroded shareholder value even further.


----------



## peacesells

Opus 2009 said:


> ^^
> Emaar needs to be congratulated on this bold step. It could have financially supported JLH, and thereby eroded shareholder value even further.


I'm pretty sure this business unit was on life support for a while now, but Emaar have run out of funds to keep them afloat.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ but that's just speculation isn't it?? are their financial records actually kept online?


----------



## rexdmx

dbxdude said:


> The lowest a stock can go to is Zero..... always worth keeping that in mind...


that would be amusing seeing that their stock price is below their book value but again how they valued their assets or liabilities is another story


----------



## V Kapoor

*Emaar in India.*

Emaar also have a jount verture in India by the name of Emaar MGF and they have quite a few projects some of which are on hold or cancelled in todays situation. Emaar MGF could not garner adequate support from investors in India for their Public Issue of Equity Shares last year and the whole issue had to be cancelled. This is usually quite rare in India. Maybe the issue was overpriced!


----------



## skdubai

^^ to add to the above this was at the peak of the bull run in the stock market, so that says something!!


----------



## gevorika78

Mazaya is sending cancellation letters to their investors who failed to pay on time for buildings Mazaya PROMISED to deliever in Dec 2009. funny though, construction did not start yet on these specific buildings.hno:


----------



## Cayman

dbxdude said:


> strangely their share price has not gone even lower.... 1.84 last time i looked:nuts:


Emaar, DFM as well as ARTC all lost over 9.5% today. I think the Dubai exchange has set the daily circuit breakers at -10%, so none of those shares could go down a fil lower.

Ususally, when the circuit breakers stop the fall of share price during the day, next morning is a blood bath.*

(*This is my personal sentiment and not to be construed as investment advise)


----------



## smussuw

According to RERA:

2 Major projects will be canceled
27 developers are not able to continue working on their projects
2 Major projects will be merged on project levels and not company level.


----------



## Cayman

^^
Do you know which of the two projects are earmaked for cancellation and which are marked for merger?


----------



## smussuw

^^ RERA said that they will announce them soon.


Bail out from Abu Dhabi?

The government of Dubai issued bond worth $20 billions and the Central Bank buys half of it. The payment is due in 5 years with interest rate of 4%.

:banana::banana:


----------



## Tractor

FT reporting that Dubai is also taking another $10billion loan from UAE

I think this says it all (based on asking prices!) http://www.alineah.com/market_analysis.asp


----------



## smussuw

*Dubai launches $20 bln bonds, UAE cbank takes half*

DUBAI, Feb 22 (Reuters) - The government of Dubai said on Sunday it has launched a $20 billion bond programme to help the Gulf emirate meet its financial obligations and press ahead with development projects.

The central bank of the United Arab Emirates has subscribed to the first issuance of $10 billion worth of the five-year bonds that carry an annual interest rate of 4 percent, the emirate's finance department said in a statement.

The bonds "will secure the necessary funding for Dubai to meet its financial obligations and continue its development programme", said the emirate, one of seven members in the UAE federation. (Reporting by Firouz Sedarat and Inal Ersan)

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSLM18414320090222


----------



## makerian

My recent experiences in the market:

I have been selling my Discovery Garden studios in recent weeks. It has not been easy to find buyers and they've been doing their best to drive the price downward and succeeding at that. 

Rents quoted for Discovery Garden Studios have declined from 75,000 to 45,000. That is a decline of 40%. Prices too have declined by at least that if not more. 

Speaking in particular about DG, these apartments at present prices offer a net yield of 8% after maintenance costs. Is that good enough for investment? *It depends the investor's expectation of rents in the future.* The apartments were indicating a yield of 8% four months ago as well but yield could not be sustained for even such a short period.


----------



## peacesells

rexdmx said:


> ^^ but that's just speculation isn't it?? are their financial records actually kept online?


Yup, speculation. My reasoning is that the US market has been in deep shit for some time now and it is only now that the Emaar subsidiary is filing for bankruptcy.


----------



## peacesells

smussuw said:


> According to RERA:
> 
> 2 Major projects will be canceled
> 27 developers are not able to continue working on their projects
> 2 Major projects will be merged on project levels and not company level.


Interesting. I was in RERA last week on Tuesday and they were very clear that no projects have been cancelled. :nuts:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai Property Recovery 2011 - Jones Lang La Salle*

Major real estate firm Jones Lang LaSalle has stated its expectation that the Dubai property market will recover in 2011, following research conducted into the country.

Their report said Dubai's property market has been among the worst-affected in the region and is likely to face worse results than elsewhere, as its economy is closely linked to international markets.

This, along with oversupply problems will see the Dubai property downturn persist until 2011.

The research also forecast that developers will turn to cost-effective housing, as developers focus on functional and affordable developments, rather than the "iconic" projects of the past. 

The research also pinpointed potential investment opportunities in middle-income housing, as well as in Abu Dhabi’s commercial sector. 

Developers will also see benefits from falling construction costs, with rents and land purchase prices also becoming considerably cheaper.

http://www.write-about-property.com...y-recovery-2011---jones-lang-la-salle-184.php


----------



## one_guy

Dubai got bailed out.

Dubai launches $20 billion bonds
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/09/02/22/10288682.html



> 02/23/2009 12:02 AM | By Babu Das Augustine, Deputy Business Editor
> 
> Dubai: The Government of Dubai announced a $20 billion bond programme on Sunday to fund its various financial commitments and spending programmes.
> 
> The first tranche of the issue amouting to $10 billion or 50 per cent of the bonds programme was subscribed by the UAE central bank, said a press statement from the Department of Finance, Government of Dubai.
> 
> "As part of its long-term financing strategy, Dubai Government today launched a $20 billion long term bond programme, the first issuance of which, amounting to $10 billion, was fully subscribed by the Central Bank of the UAE. The bond is an unsecured fixed rate paper yielding 4 per cent per annum and has a five-year maturity," Department of Finance said in an emailed statement.
> 
> As part of the global financial crisis and liquidity crunch, several businesses and government entities were facing liquidity shortage. The bond programme is expected to meet the short to medium term capital requirements of several undertakings in the emirate.
> 
> "This issuance will provide Dubai Government with the necessary liquidity to substitute the liquidity that has dried up globally in the last 12 months and accordingly meet all upcoming financial obligations. This program will secure the necessary funding for Dubai to meet its financial obligations and continue its development programme," said the Government Statement.
> 
> Economists and senior finance professionals welcomed the move. "It is a clear sign that that Dubai is getting Federal support. It was widely expected and it will send out a strong signal to the financial markets that Dubai is capable of meeting its financial obligations. Additioanlly, the new bond programme will also help Dubai to support its spending programme," said Monica Malik, an economist with EFG-Hermes, a regional investment bank.
> 
> In November last year Dubai Advisory Council had estimated that Dubai's sovereign debt obligations at $10 billion, and sovereign assets of more than $90 billion. While the debt obligations of government owned companies were placed at $70 billion, their combined assets were estimated at $260 billion.
> 
> Analysts and economists said on Sunday that the move to fund liquidity through a sovereign bond issue is expected to put to rest a lot of speculation about the financial health of Dubai's economy. "It (bond issue) is a bold move to fund the short to medium term liquidity requirements. While it will bring in money to fund several ongoing projects, it will also put to rest a lot of malicious media propaganda against Dubai and the UAE that was going on in the recent months," Dr Mohammad Al Asoumi, a Dubai based economist.
> 
> Despite the extreme shortage of liquidity in the international markets, some of the Dubai government entities have been raising money from banking entities.
> 
> Last week, in a loan refinancing deal, Borse Dubai Limited has raised $2.5 billion from a group of foreign and local banks and investors.
> 
> "The bond programme sends out the signal that the UAE is single economy and is built on solid foundations to withstand global crises of the nature we are currently facing," said Al Asoumi.


----------



## one_guy

6 months is too short. Minimum should be 2 years with checks to make sure that person is still owning the property and has not resold.

Six-month federal residence visa aims to revive property sector 
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/09/02/23/10288595.html 



> 02/23/2009 12:13 AM | By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
> 
> Dubai: The six-month freehold visa, set to be launched in the coming weeks, will encourage investors to buy property in Dubai, industry experts say.
> 
> The UAE federal government has now finalised plans for a long-awaited freehold visa for investors.
> 
> Local developers and brokers say the move will boost the slow-moving property market in Dubai which can only be a positive thing.
> 
> The introduction of a pan-emirates freehold visa law, rather than different systems in each emirate, is expected to increase transparency and confidence in the shaken real estate sector.
> 
> "The new federal law granting residency visas to owners of freehold property will be a positive step forward & Previously, granting a visa was not always guaranteed as it was subject to approval by the Department of Naturalisation and Residency, which may have discouraged people from buying," Firas Hussaini, business development manager at Great Properties, told Gulf News.
> 
> This law is further good news in a market that seems to be doing all it can to get the property sector back on track.
> 
> The federal law will allow all owners to obtain a renewable six month residency visa. However, some industry experts say that a six-month duration is too short a timeframe to ensure security and confidence make a market comeback.
> 
> Ahmad Shaikhani, managing director of Memon Investments, said while the law is a positive step to attract more investors, it is not necessarily a long-term decision.
> 
> "I believe this cannot be a permanent solution, it is a USP [unique selling point] that can potentially help players market their projects to foreigners. And [six months] is too short a time as such a period provides minimal security for buyers and investors," Shaikhani said.
> 
> Buyers had previously relied heavily on Dubai's three major master developers, Dubai Properties, Emaar and Nakheel to sponsor their residency visas. However, it later became clear that the master developers could not guarantee them the promised visas.
> 
> "The property market is one of the worst-affected industries in the global economic crisis. Prices have fallen up to 50 per cent, primarily due to no mortgages and bank loans. The UAE property market took an additional punch due to the withdrawal of the residence visa as an incentive when buying freehold property. Buyers not only stopped buying properties, they started cancelling property already bought," said Fahad Sattar Dero, chief executive of Sweet Homes.
> 
> Dero also said that this new announcement would help revive the market and put the brakes on people cancelling their property contracts.
> 
> With increased investor confidence, it is hoped that buying and selling activity will also increase, and the property sector will thrive once more.
> 
> "Damac Properties welcomes any initiatives and incentives to help boost the property market in the UAE at this time and believes that the visa provision could certainly be seen as a positive benefit for many people. As a plot developer only, whilst we will not be able to directly issue visas for our buildings, we are of course happy to work with all the master developers within whose developments we are constructing homes to make this process as smooth as possible for homebuyers and investors," Peter Riddoch, chief executive of Damac Properties, told Gulf News.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

DUBAI -- Beaches in Dubai had long been a magnet for travellers seeking sea, sun and sand, but beachgoers in the Gulf emirate recently got more than they bargained for -- stinking sewage.

Now an environmental lobby group wants to clean up the image not only of Dubai's beaches but of those all along the coastline of the United Arab Emirates, by awarding blue flags for sparkling waters.

*"Tourists would like to come to Blue Flag-labelled beaches because (the award) is a sign of safety and care for the environment," said Maisoun al-Sharif, programme coordinator for the Emirates Wildlife Society (EWS).

"Those beaches will be receiving more tourists and they will look better," he said.*

Under the Blue Flag Program launched by the EWS in conjunction with the World Wildlife Fund, managers of public or private beaches and marinas can apply to be awarded the top rating, provided they meet international standards that guarantee water cleanliness and quality.

Six months ago Dubai was hit by the foul whiff of a scandal when it was found that a stretch of Jumeirah beach lining the Dubai Offshore Sailing Club area was sullied by raw sewage spewing out of a pipeline extending from an inland industrial zone.

The discovery forced the closure of part of the beach for six weeks as officials sought to get to the bottom of the problem.

Eventually the Dubai municipality found that drivers of trucks carrying the waste were emptying the slops into the pipeline that opens into the sea instead of waiting for long hours at the city's only sewage treatment plant.

Although some truck drivers have been arrested and fined by the government, the coastline is still suffering from the discharged chemicals, oil and rubbish, according to Keith Mutch, head of the Sailing Club.

Tests conducted at the end of January showed that the water was still contaminated, said Mutch, lamenting that the authorities have not launched a suitable clean-up programme.

"This is black and that's blue," Mutch says as he points to the difference between the water in the club's marina, where dozens of boats lie, and the open sea beyond.

*"Although the water is one million percent better than it was one month ago, I estimate that this beach will take five to seven years to recover to how it was a year ago," he adds.*

Mutch is all for the planned beach rating program.

"The Blue Flag grading system will by default force beach monitoring, just as five-star hotels monitor themselves. It will be very good for Dubai," he said.

*"If beaches in Dubai are ranked, then international tourists will come. I hope the beaches do apply to get the ratings as Dubai really needs the tourists."*

The once-booming emirate of Dubai, particularly its tourism sector, has been hit hard by the financial crisis.

*Promoters of the Blue Flag initiative believe that if beaches are rated, those who oversee them will engage in constant monitoring and testing of the water to ensure standards are maintained.

"I expect there will be a positive (response) from beaches and marinas because it is possible for them to reach international standards," said Sharif of EWS.*

The problem runs far deeper, however, as infrastructure has lagged behind the rapid urban expansion of Dubai, which over the past six years witnessed a real estate boom, including the launch of dozens of mega-projects, and a subsequent population explosion.

Though the global financial crisis has put the brakes on the boom, the problem remains -- not only in Dubai but in the UAE capital Abu Dhabi, as well as other emirates where housing projects have outstripped the building of infrastructure.

"The problem is linked to the sewage system," says Mohammed Abdul Rahman Hassan, head of the marine environment and wildlife section at Dubai municipality.

Because of pressure on the sewage treatment plant, he says, "so many tankers resort to (dumping) to avoid being in a long queue".

The federal and municipal authorities have stepped up efforts to police and regulate the beaches in a bid to save the ailing tourism industry, a lifeline not only for Dubai but for the entire country.

*The department has tasked 10 full-time inspectors with patrolling the beaches and taking samples of the water and sand for testing at any of the emirate's 30 water testing stations, Hassan said.*

The department also conducts quarterly checks of water quality.

*Fines for those found dumping waste, including bags or empty containers, range from 500 dirhams (1,835 dollars) up to 270,000 dirhams ($990,900), he said.*

Meanwhile, the EWS is coordinating with the various role players, including the government's environment authorities and hotel operators, and expects to receive the first blue flag applications before the end of the year, Sharif said.

The group, he added, is also busy assessing the conditions of all UAE beaches.

But the sailing club's Mutch believes more must be done to tackle the problem of beach pollution.

*"There are still things that are being dumped and we don't know what they're dumping. The only way to tackle this problem is to shut down the pipeline," he said.*

http://showbizandstyle.inquirer.net...0240/Whiff-of-change-for-smelly-Dubai-beaches


----------



## jagmp

just came from Dubai.throughly enjoyed the trip.loved JBR walk.full of people.all the flights were full.infact bounced from my original flight and was allocated another one .though less traffic and my husband who drove for the first time in Dubai was quite comfortable.

anyway great news in this doom and gloom is i sold my SC Elite 5 property which is just a big hole in the ground.it was 100% paid so next to impossible to sell.infact i got a call from an agent a French Emirati who said he had a French customer who was interested in the property.we met at Deira city centre.the buyer was also French Emirati.the price was fixed at 25% less OP.we went to the developer's office next day.transfer was done in 15 minutes and i was paid in cash. effectively he paid 75% of OP.while according to conract only 50% to be paid so far. i will cover my loss in currency exchange. i had bought Dhs at 7.20 so i should be fine. i can't still believe i have sold a peace of paper.:banana:

i consider myself lucky to escape losses.in August developer bought back my three apt in Elite 5 without any charges or admin cost .transfered all the money to one Apt and made it fully paid.Mr waqar in TP office who i never met before did this all for me out of good will and also introduced an agent with me without any self interest. there are good people in this desperation.

no more offplan property.i have only completed properties in DM and JLT.i am hoarding cash at the moment. should i wait or jump in UK or Dubai property. any idea about how to repatriate my funds.is NBD safe for the large fund.:cheers::lol::banana:


----------



## Porcello

Dubai_Steve said:


> *Fines for those found dumping waste, including bags or empty containers, range from 500 dirhams (1,835 dollars) up to 270,000 dirhams ($990,900), he said.*


Interesting calculations !!!! At least they should have taken their time to verify.....


----------



## Imre

smussuw said:


> According to RERA:
> 
> 2 Major projects will be canceled
> 27 developers are not able to continue working on their projects
> 2 Major projects will be merged on project levels and not company level.


maybe will be cancelled :

The Universe 
Palm Deira

merge:
Jumeirah Gardens-Mohammed Bin Rashid Gardens


I dont think so the cancellation of the Palm Jebel Ali, Waterfront because they already invested lots of money in those projects. 

We will see soon , hopefully they will not waste the 20 billion usd again


----------



## Adel

Abu Dhabi has to do more to bail Dubai.

Dubai will have to pay Abu Dhabi Back $10Bill after 5 years + 4% interest yearly. $10 Bill will not be enough to pay interest on Dubai loans of $80Bill for two years let alone pay for infrastructure projects.


----------



## peacesells

Porcello said:


> Interesting calculations !!!! At least they should have taken their time to verify.....


:lol:


----------



## smussuw

Adel said:


> Abu Dhabi has to do more to bail Dubai.
> 
> Dubai will have to pay Abu Dhabi Back $10Bill after 5 years + 4% interest yearly. $10 Bill will not be enough to pay interest on Dubai loans of $80Bill for two years let alone pay for infrastructure projects.


They also said that the other $10 billions will be also bought buy the central bank on the beginning of next year but only if Dubai needs it. They have other revenues u know !


----------



## peacesells

Imre said:


> maybe will be cancelled :
> 
> The Universe
> Palm Deira
> 
> merge:
> Jumeirah Gardens-Mohammed Bin Rashid Gardens
> 
> 
> I dont think so the cancellation of the Palm Jebel Ali, Waterfront because they already invested lots of money in those projects.
> 
> We will see soon , hopefully they will not waste the 20 billion usd again


Interesting prediction Imre. I kind of hope they seriously scale back the Waterfront (no islands, nothing beyond the SZR) and delay the Jumeirah Gardens project at least until Palm Jebel Ali is occupied. Jumeirah Gardens will be a nightmare for the city, imagine what the project will do to the traffic situation especially if they plow ahead at full speed. 

Palm Deirah and the Universe are white elephants and they should just bury the projects. 

*Cancelled, never to be seen again:*
The Universe

*Put on hold for a long term (5 years+):*
Palm Deira
MBR Gardens

*Put on hold for short-medium term (1-4 years):*
Bawadi and other dodgy parts of Dubailand
Jumeirah Gardens
Most of Waterfront

*Funds from the bond to be ploughed into:*
The Lagoons
Palm Jebel Ali
Madinat Al Arab phase of Waterfront
Culture Village
Business Bay


----------



## Cayman

Imre said:


> I dont think so the cancellation of the Palm Jebel Ali, Waterfront because they already invested lots of money in those projects.


These two projects have progressed too far to be cancelled in my opinion. Even if Nakheel does not survive, who ever takes over will continue them in some form or the other.

There will most certainly be substantial delays though.


----------



## Adel

smussuw said:


> They also said that the other $10 billions will be also bought buy the central bank on the beginning of next year but only if Dubai needs it. They have other revenues u know !


Yes I know they have revenue, of course they have. They still have to return the 10 or 20 Bill + interest after 5 years. it's not a gift, you don't call this bailing out its just a pain killer. Dubai should seriosly think of selling something to Abu Dhabi and swollow some of it's pride, and I think this is what is going to happen if the international credit crunch doesn't ease next year.

This crisis will have long term results on the relation between Dubai and Abu Dhabi and the balance of power in the UAE.


----------



## lovedubai

jagmp I've sent you a pm.


----------



## Richard Head

peacesells said:


> *Funds from the bond to be ploughed into:*
> The Lagoons
> Palm Jebel Ali
> Madinat Al Arab phase of Waterfront
> Culture Village
> Business Bay


You missed by far the most important one, the one that showcases Dubai to the world - Palm Jumeirah. They need to get Trump Tower and Village center back on the rails, and fast.

That aside, fully agree. I'm assuming Burj Dubai area is already reasonably well funded with the exception of a few more recent towers Emaar sold at 7000 psf which of course will never happen, but probably don't need to, that development is already close enough to awesomeness.


----------



## dbxdude

smussuw said:


> They also said that the other $10 billions will be also bought buy the central bank on the beginning of next year but only if Dubai needs it. They have other revenues u know !


Basically its a statement isnt it - its saying no we wont let it go to the wolfs, you money is safe if you lend to Dubai. This makes it AAA almost. It would have been funny if they just paid all the debt (80 billion plus the other 130 billion) off and carried on building the 1 mile high tower to say a big F you to the world.... 

This whole situation is just going to create a stronger UAE with a much greater emphasis on Federal Government which may be no bad thing.... This is no iceland like people have been saying.


----------



## dbxdude

The United Arab Emirates’ central bank stepped in to support Dubai after concern increased the emirate will struggle to repay its debt as global financial turmoil pushed up credit costs and burst a real-estate bubble.

The central bank bought half of an unsecured, $20 billion, 5-year notes issue at an annual interest rate of 4 percent, Dubai’s Department of Finance said in an e-mailed statement yesterday.

Home to the world’s tallest building, most expensive hotel suite and largest manmade islands, Dubai borrowed $80 billion to turn itself into a regional financial and tourism hub. Moody’s Investors Service said in October that Dubai may need help from Abu Dhabi to pay for its debt. The emirate may have to refinance $15 billion this year in maturing loans and bonds, Moody’s said.

“This is the biggest news of the year for the regional bond market,” said Abdul Kadir Hussain, chief executive officer of Mashreq Capital, a unit of the United Arab Emirates’ fifth- biggest lender by assets. “This is a clean solution to Dubai’s short-term refinancing needs. We’re already seeing Dubai-based bonds rallying on this news.”

The cost to protect Dubai debt against default fell to 800 basis points, from around 900 on Feb. 19, according to data provided by Mashreqbank PSC. The Dubai Financial Market General Index gained 4.3 percent to 1,597.42 at 11:36 a.m. in Dubai, rising to the highest since Feb. 19. The index has tumbled 73 percent in the past 12 months.

Real-Estate Slump

Real-estate prices have fallen 25 percent in Dubai from September’s peak and 20 percent in Abu Dhabi, Morgan Stanley said in a Feb. 2 report. The decline comes as a more than 70 percent slump in oil prices since July and scarce global credit pushed investors to dump assets in the emirate.

Financial institutions worldwide have amassed $1.1 trillion of credit losses and writedowns and raised $991 billion of capital since the U.S. subprime mortgage market collapsed, data compiled by Bloomberg show. The U.S., Britain, France and Germany are among nations that have injected billions into banks to prevent a wider financial calamity.

“This mess globally is so big only governments can tackle it, in my opinion, because they have to restore confidence,” said Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem, chairman of state-owned Dubai World, in a Feb. 17 interview.

Dubai World owns DP World Ltd., the third-largest international port operator, Istithmar World, a private equity firm that acquired Barney’s New York Inc. in 2007, and Nakheel PJSC, builder of palm-shaped islands in the Persian Gulf.

Abu Dhabi Helps Banks

Abu Dhabi, the biggest of the U.A.E.’s seven emirates and holder of the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund, said earlier this month it will inject $4.4 billion into five of its own banks, sparking concern Dubai won’t get the same treatment.

The U.A.E. in September set up a $13.6 billion fund for the countries’ banks to boost liquidity. In October, it guaranteed bank deposits and said it would add another $19 billion into the banking system. Abu Dhabi’s wealth fund had $328 billion in assets at the end of 2008, according to a study by economists at the Council on Foreign Relations.

“The program should cover the obligations and provide some extra for the continuation of the expansionary budget spending plan,” Monica Malik, an economist at EFG-Hermes SAE, the largest Arab investment bank by market value, said.

Dubai said it will run a budget deficit of 4.2 billion dirhams this year as it boosts government spending by 42 percent to stoke economic growth


----------



## jeetha

jagmp said:


> just came from Dubai.throughly enjoyed the trip.loved JBR walk.full of people.all the flights were full.infact bounced from my original flight and was allocated another one .though less traffic and my husband who drove for the first time in Dubai was quite comfortable.
> 
> anyway great news in this doom and gloom is i sold my SC Elite 5 property which is just a big hole in the ground.it was 100% paid so next to impossible to sell.infact i got a call from an agent a French Emirati who said he had a French customer who was interested in the property.we met at Deira city centre.the buyer was also French Emirati.the price was fixed at 25% less OP.we went to the developer's office next day.transfer was done in 15 minutes and i was paid in cash. effectively he paid 75% of OP.while according to conract only 50% to be paid so far. i will cover my loss in currency exchange. i had bought Dhs at 7.20 so i should be fine. i can't still believe i have sold a peace of paper.:banana:
> 
> i consider myself lucky to escape losses.in August developer bought back my three apt in Elite 5 without any charges or admin cost .transfered all the money to one Apt and made it fully paid.Mr waqar in TP office who i never met before did this all for me out of good will and also introduced an agent with me without any self interest. there are good people in this desperation.
> 
> no more offplan property.i have only completed properties in DM and JLT.i am hoarding cash at the moment. should i wait or jump in UK or Dubai property. any idea about how to repatriate my funds.is NBD safe for the large fund.:cheers::lol::banana:


Dubai off-plans have thought us all a lesson, not to be repeated. Well done you. 

(Right place…. right time & all that).


----------



## smussuw

Adel said:


> Yes I know they have revenue, of course they have. They still have to return the 10 or 20 Bill + interest after 5 years. it's not a gift, you don't call this bailing out its just a pain killer. Dubai should seriosly think of selling something to Abu Dhabi and swollow some of it's pride, and I think this is what is going to happen if the international credit crunch doesn't ease next year.
> 
> This crisis will have long term results on the relation between Dubai and Abu Dhabi and the balance of power in the UAE.


Still, who else would be willing to give $20 billions even if it was a loan in the current crisis. Dubai would think of other ways including selling some of their assets I bet but only when they have no other options.



dbxdude said:


> Basically its a statement isnt it - its saying no we wont let it go to the wolfs, you money is safe if you lend to Dubai. This makes it AAA almost. It would have been funny if they just paid all the debt (80 billion plus the other 130 billion) off and carried on building the 1 mile high tower to say a big F you to the world....
> 
> This whole situation is just going to create a stronger UAE with a much greater emphasis on Federal Government which may be no bad thing.... This is no iceland like people have been saying.


Yes, I 2nd that !


----------



## smussuw

About Dubai


----------



## DaYFox

Does anybody know if it is possible to sell now a unit in City of Arabia, Wadi Tower, at 2006 original price? If it is not worth trying now let me know...
thanks!


----------



## peacesells

Richard Head said:


> You missed by far the most important one, the one that showcases Dubai to the world - Palm Jumeirah. They need to get Trump Tower and Village center back on the rails, and fast.


Yup didn't think of that one for some reason. I was thinking they will spend most of it developing the basic infrastructure and the PJum is pretty much a done deal in that respect (compared with the other projects mentioned). It would be interesting if they decide to go ahead with the Trump tower without Trump and rename it to something else.


----------



## Imre

*Rera and investors band together*


Last Updated: February 22. 2009 7:15PM UAE / February 22. 2009 3:15PM GMT DUBAI // The Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) and a group of private property investors will combine to create an investor’s advisory panel that will provide feedback to the Government as it tries to resolve disputes.

Marwan bin Ghalita, the chief executive of RERA, agreed to the plan during a meeting with the Dubai Property Investors Group, a coalition of more than 350 investors that was formed after sales began to slow last year. Group members say they are concerned about the safety of their investments and ability to get their money back if a developer cancels a project or refuses to start construction.

“We want to protect the real estate investors,” Mr Ghalita said. “We are studying project by project… Once we have enough information about a project, we will intervene as a regulator.”

Ludmila Yamalova, a lawyer with MAC Davidson & Associates and a member of the investors group, said she was encouraged by the meeting with Mr Ghalita.

“Until today’s meeting, we felt that the Government was in denial,” she said. “But he was very welcoming to investors. He said we all made mistakes, investors and developers. Now we need to solve the problems and move forward.”

Mr Ghalita emphasised to the group that all investors need to register their transactions with the Land Department, including reservation agreements and booking receipts, to ensure that the Government can help with disputes and investigate developers that are acting incorrectly. He warned that in many cases, the issue between buyers and developers is contractual and will have to be settled in court.

The investors group also discussed the details of a petition they delivered to RERA on Jan 18 that called on the Government to take measures to protect their investments and prevent unscrupulous developers from absconding with funds.

“Any measure short of announcing which developers are bankrupt will continue to let real estate prices free fall,” the petition said, according to Zawya Dow Jones. “We do not want to make any more payments until we have proof that the developers have the financial ability to deliver our units.”

The petition also called on the Government to cancel large developments now in their early phase, including Dubailand and Nakheel’s Waterfront, because they were no longer sustainable in the dampened market.

The Dubai Property Investors Group was set up to “discuss the protection of the rights of investors in the Dubai property market by seeking a dialogue with the developers and the government to find sustainable, working solutions in these demanding times”, according to the group’s website.

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090222/BUSINESS/942576581/1051


----------



## Imre

DaYFox said:


> Does anybody know if it is possible to sell now a unit in City of Arabia, Wadi Tower, at 2006 original price? If it is not worth trying now let me know...
> thanks!


I think almost impossible to sell anything there even at the OP but you can try it.


----------



## one_guy

Dayfox I too am in investor in COA and I would say it has been by far my worst investment. I have been quiet on this forum because I didn't want to badmouth my own investment but at this juncture it doesn't matter anymore.

The way the Galadaris have managed this project is a joke. They are incompetent. I have been dealing with them since 2005 and their customer service people are friendly enough but they only repeat misinformation and don't really answer your questions. 

They have supposedly been doing piling work since 2006 and are always going to announce their main contractor for the towers in the next couple of weeks. This has been their standard response for 3 years now!!

What was your original price? I am guessing around AED 700 per sq ft. Just to give you an idea right now you can buy good quality completed residential flats in JLT for AED 800 per sq ft. 

So I doubt there would be any demand at your original price for essentially sand in a less desirable area (Emirates Road vs. Sheikh Zayed road). If you can find a buyer (and that's a huge if) I would be surprised if you could sell for more than AED 550 per sq ft given the current market and that proper work on Wadi Tower has still not started after 3 years.

Wadi Tower does have an advantage because at least it is a registered project with RERA and has an escrow account. Unfortunately past payments are not being transferred to that account, only future payments (I got this directly info from Galadari office) One plus is that Wadi Tower finally has a contractor lined up as of a few weeks ago.

I bought a small commercial unit in COA at around AED 700 per sq ft pre-launch. But I came to the realization that the COA project was mismanaged a long, long time back. 

Hence I have been trying to sell my unit for even AED 800 per sq ft for 2 years even when the real estate market was booming (commercial in JLT hit AED 2,000 per sq ft and Business Bay hit AED 3,500 per sq ft). I listed with multiple agents and never got one serious inquiry, even though I indicated even the AED 800 per sq ft was negotiable. And remember this was during the boom time. 

Off-the-record the real estate agents told me everybody knew that the Galadaris didn't have the management expertise in place to execute such a large project and savvy buyers in the market knew that and steered clear of this project. The Galadaris had big problems with getting contractors to even bid for their tenders, and then those bids came in too high because of escalating material and labour costs.

Basically the Mall of Arabia (because it is so lucrative) will be built but the rest of COA is up in the air. The payments people have made for Wadi Walk and the various towers (Wadi, Metro, I&M, etc.) have been diverted and used for infrastructure work and for the Mall. 

Anyway I rescheduled all my payments a long time back so now I only pay on completion. If they build it great; hopefully the market recovers in the next few years, and I get my money back. If they don't build it well then at least I don't throw good money after bad. Best case scenario is they cancel my tower and refund me my payments to date.

Your options:
1) Try to sell back to Galadaris at below cost.
2) Reschedule payments so balance is on completion, then try to sell on secondary market at well below original price.
3) Take your case to RERA.
4) Walk away from a bad investment and default.


----------



## Imre

peacesells said:


> *Funds from the bond to be ploughed into:*
> The Lagoons
> Palm Jebel Ali
> Madinat Al Arab phase of Waterfront
> Culture Village
> Business Bay


I think they have to finish these projects first:

Business Bay
DIFC
Downtown Burj Dubai
Dubai Marina
JLT
Palm Jumeirah

Business Bay is the most difficult because of many no name and unprofessional developers and DP still has more than 100 plots which is empty or cancelled because of developer gone.


----------



## dbxdude

peacesells said:


> Yup didn't think of that one for some reason. I was thinking they will spend most of it developing the basic infrastructure and the PJum is pretty much a done deal in that respect (compared with the other projects mentioned). It would be interesting if they decide to go ahead with the Trump tower without Trump and rename it to something else.


I think they got bigger issues then building this tower..... its not much of an attraction either.... if they want to develop palm, they have a mall they were supposed to do, barneys and a circus, not to mention a whole host of water based activities they could do. Trump site, would however, make an excellent location for the circus and a park. 

Oh and they could put in a few decent speed bumps to stop the wanabies racing their v6s down the strip at 3am reving like complete morons after santuary closes.... on that note a cop giving breth tests would be nice and hey., when the mon rail is up, shut the road at 10pm.... its can be fing dangerous at night, only a matter of time b4 something nasty happens... my rant of the day...


----------



## 234sale

I think, put car parks now on vacant plots in the marina and JLT as parking is already an issue.

Fill in failed projects in Business Bay, Downtown Burj Dubai with more low rise development to keep the density down.

DIFC will be finished by end 2010 anyway,, which is good


----------



## Dubai_Steve

smussuw said:


> About Dubai


Interesting they say the Abu Dhabi Royal Family has $33 trillion in cash and they should spend it now on their own country and Dubai before it is too late. Make their own banks instead of investing in Barclays and other banks. Also they predict Abu Dhabi will buy Dubai.


----------



## luluprovence

------------


----------



## Imre

234sale said:


> DIFC will be finished by end 2010 anyway,, which is good


I think just in 2013-2014 because of the Lighthouse , if it will be ever built.


----------



## yesramkumar

Today Tamweel sent a SMS saying that " Land registration previously due on 25-02-2009 is deferred till completion post discussion with Lands Dept. Your letter confirming this is in the post. Tamweel ". Has anyone got this SMS?


----------



## avid

Guys i think we need to get a clear understanding from Mazaya. I am worried because few buildings have not started construction. typically r008 was sold in March '07 -we are almost 2 years ahead, its a shame.


----------



## avid

Guys i think we need to get a clear understanding from Mazaya. I am worried because few buildings have not started construction. typically r008 was sold in March '07 -we are almost 2 years ahead, its a shame.


----------



## dbxdude

will there be any banks and finance companies left to move in it by 2010...


----------



## Imre

expatriates.com

Description: 4E, SPRINGS 8, STREET 4
2 BEDROOMS + STUDY
SIZE: 1800 SQ.FT
EXCELLENT CONDITION, VERY WELL MAINTAINED
BACK TO BACK
LANDSCAPED
FULLY FURNISHED
RENTED TILL JUNE 09, WITH VACANCY LETTER
SELLING FOR 1.35

4M, SPRINGS 8, STREET 4
2 BEDROOMS + STUDY
SIZE: 1700 SQ.FT
EXCELLENT LOCATION
BACK TO BACK
RENTED TILL MAY, 3 YEARS COMPLETING
SELLING FOR 1.15

CALL TONY


----------



## Naz UK

I'll probably buy one (leave it empty and use it 4 times a year) when it hits around 800K.


----------



## bizzybonita

luluprovence said:


> is it true that NBD is offering fantastic rates for deposit in EUR? Is that what you were offered?


I heard Al-Gaddafi calls for the distribution of oil revenue directly to citizens , are you from libya !


----------



## 234sale

Which master developments are actually on hold now...

Mohammed Bin Rashid Gardens?
Jumeriah Garden City?

We expect...

The Universe and what else to go on hold?

what else..


----------



## Imre

maybe this going to be ON HOLD as well

UAE SPACEPORT 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=318818


----------



## smussuw

Naz UK said:


> I'll probably buy one (leave it empty and use it 4 times a year) when it hits around 800K.


No, its mine :bash:


----------



## docc

Dubai_Steve said:


> Interesting they say the Abu Dhabi Royal Family has $33 trillion in cash and they should spend it now on their own country and Dubai before it is too late. Make their own banks instead of investing in Barclays and other banks. Also they predict Abu Dhabi will buy Dubai.


$33 Trillion in cash? That must surely be wrong. Right? Right? :nuts: :nuts:


----------



## social

Naz UK said:


> That's contrary to what the government has just announced. So either you're chatting shit, or the government is. It's neck and neck right now.


You are talking about a government that was quoted last week as saying Dubai had the ability to meet all of its' debt obligations from its own resources :lol:

Abu Dhabi basically owns Dubai


----------



## smussuw

skdubai said:


> yea right.... they are going to spend all that needed liquidity on those projects!!! no chance at all!!!


Yea, they will have to repay all the debt first.


----------



## peacesells

smussuw said:


> Yea, they will have to repay all the debt first.


This would have to be their first priority. If they default on a loan, it is a massive blow to confidence, whereas if a project gets put on hold, the confidence gets slowly eroded in little chunks.


----------



## skdubai

http://gulfnews.com/business/Economy/10289310.html

extract from above


> The money raised through the bond issue will not be used for any new capital expenditure, government’s budget deficit or for capitalizing banks.


the headline is misleading, but the point of the article seems to be that the govt. is going to help the govt. entities pay off their debt with this money!


----------



## Imre

*Dubai Food City*

*Dubai plans Food City project worth $200m *



Dubai: A $200 million (Dh734 million) Dubai Food City is in the planning stages, according to industry experts.

Dubai Food City will be a five million square foot self-contained development, aimed at wholesale food merchants, according to Farouk Qasim, head of the food and beverage group in Dubai Chamber of Commerce and Industry (DCCI).

While the estimated value of the project is $200 million, this figure may change as costs, especially in areas such as construction are decreasing.

It will be a free zone development and will be able to hold between 400 to 500 companies.

"It will make it easier if everything is under one roof, such as inspections for customs, warehousing [and so on]. It will be a one-stop shop," Qasim told local media during a DCCI business event held on the sidelines of the Gulfood exhibition. 

While Dubai Food City is still in the planning stages, it will be rolled out in four phases with phase one expected to be completed by 2012.

Qasim said ideally the city would be next to a seaport as the majority of exports go by sea.

Dubai Food City will increase food security in the UAE which already imports 90 per cent of its food.

"It will make prices more competitive and will allow sufficient stock at any given time right on your doorstep, so there will never be a shortage," he said.

Hamad Bu Amim, director general of DCCI, said that the government should keep trying to secure agricultural land in places such as Vietnam, the world leader in rice, Chile, the world leader in vegetables and Sudan, where the Abu Dhabi government has acquired land.

"The government should keep these [in mind] as strategic investments. We always encourage joint ventures especially in those countries that have the infrastructure to support agriculture," Bu Amim said. 

This is the latest clustered city aimed at a specific industry in Dubai.

Businesses involved in the same industry are located in one place to make trading and communication much easier. 

Dubai is already host to the Dubai International Finance Centre, Internet City, Media City, Knowledge Village, Healthcare City, and Humanitarian City among others.

The food and beverage industry in Dubai was valued at $8 billion in 2008. 

While figures for 2009 are difficult to forecast, Qasim said there will still be growth in the industry.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Commodities/10289262.html


----------



## glover

*Rera to monitor housing progress*

_i think RERA is starting to get it. no more lies about completion dates from Select or any other developer._

-------------------------------------------

Property buyers will discover whether the construction of their homes has been cancelled, delayed or is on schedule in one of several initiatives designed to protect investors concerned about the housing market downturn.

The Independent Progress Monitoring Report, an online scheme announced yesterday by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), *will see government engineers touring Dubai’s housing construction sites to check that progress is being made and assess the stage that work has reached.*

http://thenational.ae/article/20090225/NATIONAL/708648301/1133


----------



## desertmaster

Number of Dubai property developers falls by 47% to 427 developers - 25Feb09 (3:52)
RERA CEO Marwan Bin Ghalita says that only 30 thousand real estate units are expected to enter the market this year.
http://www.zawya.com/video/default.cfm/sidVID20090225100809


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai Stability to return by H2

*Key events such as the floatation of the $20 billion (Dh73.4bn) bond by the Dubai Government, expected lowering of interest rates and increasing liquidity should see things bottoming out in the summer, according to Hamad Buamin, Dubai Chamber Director-General.*

*We could see stabilisation in the second half of 2009, Buamin told Emirates Business.*

He pointed out that 2008 was an exceptional year and that though things would be slower this year, there will still be growth.

The overall trade may fall by 10-15 per cent but things are not as bad as some had expected, said Buamin. Yes, there is a slowdown in comparison to January of last year but it's much smaller that what everybody was expecting.

He said there are many factors that are responsible for slowdown in trade. If we talk about reduction in the volume of trade, it is not related to just a slowdown in business, said Buamin.

Remember there are many things at play. The reduction in volume of trade is also impacted by falling prices. Last year we were talking of inflation but now it's reversing. Moreover, demand is coming from the region and those markets are affected by oil prices. So any reduction in oil prices directly affects trade. And yes, then there is the slowdown, he added.

However, the movements by the government have been very positive and we are seeing confidence coming back, he said. There is a revival in market sentiment. I see interest rates coming down and money will find its way back to the market.

He said the real estate sector was supported. Nearly 70 per cent of major companies that we have here are either government owned or semi-government and they will definitely take care of their own companies.

Buamin said the recent growth in this sector in the past was simply too high. Growth in 2008 was too high. We grew at around 80 per cent in the first three quarters and I think then it fell in the last quarter but still we are higher than January of last year.

We really didn't see downturn in terms of value of assets that were sold but we've definitely seen a reduction in speculation and that has its own positive affects on the market, he said, while talking about the property sector.

Via Emirates Business Magazine​


----------



## bizzybonita

This is a good time to buy as property prices continue to fall

The real estate sector will continue to take a beating due to retrenchment, unclear supply and demand equations, tight liquidity and the possibility of a credit default spiral.

*But properties in good location with good infrastructure and facilities will survive, according to Ian Ohan, Regional Director – Head of Investment Transactions, at Jones Lang LaSalle Mena.*

*He said the sector had fallen off quickly because it had a short-term investment horizon.*

In September 2008, at the peak of real estate activity, Jones Lang LaSalle did a sentiment survey for real estate investors in the region. And we found because there was availability of finance, none of those we surveyed had an exit strategy, he said.

Ohan said this could be a good time to buy as property prices continue to dip. It's not for the faint-hearted but there are very good deals out there, he said. We are starting to see signs in some locations that there is a bottoming of prices already. We are starting to see evidence of a floor pricing where buyers are coming back into the market.

*
Besides the global slowdown due to tight credit and debt markets and the withdrawal of speculators, what factors do you think contributed to the downturn in the region's real estate market?*

I have been in the region for 10 years and the phase of growth that I have seen continued until the third quarter of 2008. We had record stock market performance, record forecasts for oil prices of up to $200 per barrel and there really was a bias towards real state regardless of attempts to diversify from the sector. There had been an enormous push on infrastructure investment because there had been an enormous amount of liquidity around. There had been strong investment sentiment in the region and above all we had safety, security and sun. The region had been growing from strength to strength and this had been the backdrop of an economic boom. So 2008 was what we call a perfect storm due to strong economic investor confidence. The interesting thing was that in September 2008, the peak of real estate activity, Jones Lang LaSalle did a sentiment survey for real estate investors in the region. What we found out was that, because there was availability of finance, none of those we surveyed had an exit strategy. The reason perhaps why this region has fallen off so quickly is because it very much had a short-term investment horizon in most cases.
*
What are the biggest issues confronting the industry today?*

The loss of jobs in the region is a big issue as it points to a reduction in demand and the regulatory environment here is being tested for the first time. It has a long way to go. The supply and demand equation here is very unclear. The key issue right now is the supply and demand balance and the impact of this downturn is not knowing the demand, because lay-offs will create a decline in demand for residential products. At the same time there are still products being delivered in the market. It is very difficult to tell when we will hit the balance point. We also have this problem called the credit default spiral.

*What do you mean by the credit default spiral?*

It is something that is very specific to the region and this is also causing trouble for banks. It is related to how this market has been financed in the past, which has something to do with off-plan speculative sales. Say you bought a property in the past 18 months – perhaps you may even have bought at peak and the market rates have come down and you have put down a five to 10 per cent deposit. And now you feel that it may not be in your best interests to continue with those plans or you may not be able to continue to make payments on those plans, then that spiral problem goes back to the developer. And then the developer is not able to fund the project so he is unable to sell. This cycle is something that we believe will take some time to work out as legislation in the region catches up.

*How low could property prices drop?*

I'd be reluctant to give a general figure because today more than ever it depends on what product and which locations you are talking about. High quality locations and products command high prices where before there was no differentiation over that. All properties across the board will be affected but properties with good facilities in good locations served by good infrastructure will survive.

*Is this a good time to buy?*

You have to be a sure investor. It's not for the faint-hearted but there are very good deals out there. We are starting to see signs in some locations that there is a bottoming of prices already. We are starting to see the lease markets find a bit of footing in better located products and in better quality buildings that are already in the market. We are starting to see evidence of a floor pricing where buyers are coming back into the market.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*PROFILE: Ian Ohan Regional Director – Head of Investment Transactions, Jones Lang LaSalle Mena*

Ohan structures and executes transactions on behalf of institutional and high-net-worth buyers and sellers and has completed deals worth more than $1 billion in the region.

He has an intimate knowledge of regional real estate markets having worked on projects across the GCC, North Africa and the Levant for the past 10 years.

He began his career with KPMG and Arthur Andersen and worked for them in North America, Dubai and Bahrain.

He also served as a senior real estate executive responsible for more than $1bn of development for a major UAE-based company


----------



## gerald.d

^^

Remember folks. This is the same guy, and the same company, who back in October 2008 said:



> The real estate markets in the Middle East will outperform all other regions in the world.


----------



## High Times

^^

In terms of "fastest decline" he was spot on.


----------



## AltinD

^^ For that he has to thank his work experience with Arthur Andersen


----------



## HappyLarry

From Business-247
By 
Parag Deulgaonkar and Mohammed Elsidafy on Thursday, February 26, 2009 



New developers in Dubai will now have to pay 100 per cent of the land price to start selling properties "off plan" and will have to inject a minimum 20 per cent of project value to commence construction, a top government official said.

"Besides, paying land value in full and injecting 20 per cent of the project value to start construction, new developers will have to link payments to construction. This is a new regulation that will become operational from March," Marwan bin Ghalita, Chief Executive Officer, Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) said yesterday.

Although the agency has postponed plans to introduce a new sales agreement, it will soon be introducing a "cool off" period clause that will allow investors time to rethink their decision.

"The investor will have the right to have a clause of cool off period for 15 days and then commit to a contract. Once you sign a contract, you are bound by it."

-----------------------------------------------------
Above is sure to kill speculation for good. Thank the Lord. Dubai is leading the way, again.
:cheers:


----------



## malec

Reading through some of the jumeirah village threads is depressing. I feel sorry for all those people that invested there when something like only 10% of launched projects will be built.


----------



## sandstone

malec said:


> Reading through some of the jumeirah village threads is depressing. I feel sorry for all those people that invested there when something like only 10% of launched projects will be built.


i cant find the threads you are referring to - can you provide me a link? i wanted to learn what troubles developers are causing.


----------



## Canal Sand Investor

*Next payment*

Any news from anyone on if we still have to continue paying while Spirts city continue delaying. I thought they were meant to come out with a payment plan linked to progress but haven't seen anything yet.

Yet if I don't pay they can charge me overdue payment fees apparently. Doesn't seem right.hno:


----------



## Imre

sandstone said:


> i cant find the threads you are referring to - can you provide me a link? i wanted to learn what troubles developers are causing.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=714


----------



## Imre

*Rera to bring out updated rental index in April *



Dubai: An updated rental index is due to be released at the beginning of April and is aimed at making the market more realistic, according to officials at Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera).

"The index will be out at the beginning of April. We cannot do it based on one study as rents are dropping at different rates," said Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive of Rera.

The revised rental index will be completed once all the new tenancy contracts have been signed for the current year and registered on Rera's Ejari website. Once this has been done, it will be clear who is paying what rents in specific areas of Dubai.

There are 209 real estate management companies registered under the Ejari system and 2,822 registered lease contracts, according to Rera figures. 

The first rental index was released at the end of last year and caused uproar and confusion among tenants who were left watching as their landlords hiked their rents.

It later became clear that the rental index was not entirely relevant as the average rental rates quoted in it were based on last year's rents, before the financial crisis hit, causing rents to plummet.

Those tenants who have not yet renewed their contracts are now likely to sit on their contracts until the new index is released, hopeful of a decrease in their area.

With rents dropping across the board however, it is now much easier and more affordable to find property at a good rate.

Tenants can breathe a sigh of relief as it is likely the new index will be more in line with current market rates.

"The good thing is tenants can now find affordable units," Bin Galita said.

Whereas in the first rental index, the average rent for a two-bed villa in the Springs was Dh190,000-Dh230,000, these same villas can now be snapped up for Dh85,000 by those lucky enough to strike a bargain. Studios in International City, according to the first index have an average rate of Dh45,000 to Dh55,000 and can now be found for as low as Dh30,000.

While this may be frustrating for tenants already committed to a contract, for those still looking around, now is a very good time to rent.

209 real estate firms currently registered with Rera 
2,822 lease contracts registered with Rera 
30,000 dirhams is the rent for some studios in Dubai

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10289427.html


----------



## Imre

*Rera chief says rents could decline up to 50% *



Dubai: house rents in Dubai have been declining and could fall up to 40-50 per cent by the end of this year, depending on neighbourhoods as the market cools off, according to Dubai government officials.

"The rents have already begun to come down," Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive of Dubai's Real Estate Authority (Rera) told the media on Wednesday.

"Depending on the locations, this could range from 10, 20 to up to 50 per cent by the end of the year," he said.

This comes amid a 45 per cent decline in land transaction value in some areas, said Mohammad Sultan Thani, assistant director general of the Dubai land department.

However, due to slowdown and delay, around 20 per cent of residential units may not come online this year from 31,003 units previously anticipated.

Last year 29,319 units hit Dubai's market. 


There is also a 40 per cent decrease in the 43,880 units forecast to come online in 2010. With prices in Dubai falling, it is now possible for people, previously priced out of the property market, to buy properties. There are currently 875 projects registered with Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera).

Of these, 695 projects have escrow accounts, as the remaining 180 are either over 60 per cent complete or they have total bank guarantees, Bin Galita said.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10289575.html


----------



## Imre

*Monthly progress reports for 875 projects *



Dubai: Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) will plot the progress of every single project underway in Dubai on their website starting next week.

"There will be a monthly report for every project in Dubai. We cannot compromise on transparency and trust of Dubai," Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive of Rera told local media yesterday.

The total number of projects registered with Rera now stands at 875.

It is hoped that this initiative will give investors the comfort and knowledge they need from their investments and also prevent an increasing number of disputes breaking out between developers and investors.

"I hope every developer in Dubai, every developer in the UAE will put the indicator for investors to show them what's going on," Bin Galita said. 


The progress report for each project will include up to date photographs of the project construction, the plot number, the developer's approval number at Rera, the name of the bank holding the trust account and a summary of progress.

The progress indicator will consist of arrows green, amber and red to indicate whether the project is progressing well, slowly or whether there has been no progress at all.

New investors to Dubai will be able to choose which project is safe to invest in by reading the reports and looking at the progress.

Rera have made impressive leaps so far this year to make sure the real estate scene is adequately regulated with transparency starring as the main focus.

Since January 2008, Rera have received a total of 1,030 complaints, 525 written complaints and 505 complaints posted on their website.

Around 27 developers have been deleted from Rera records.

Developers are now realising that they have to communicate with their investors. With some developers registering 80 per cent cancellation in their projects, communication is key so that the issue doesn't escalate to court-levels.

Officials at the land department and Rera urge all investors to register their properties and their rights at the land department under Law No. 13.

When the market was up, everyone was busy buying and selling and making money on their properties and didn't consider registering their legal rights.

"In a booming market, everybody makes mistakes. Everyone now is running to Daddy which is Rera and the land department. Before everyone was busy selling their properties and noone came to us. Now they are all coming," Bin Galita said.

Another way to strike a balance between developers and investors is to create a 15-day cool-off period before a contract is signed.

This is intended as thinking time for the investor to make sure he wants to sign and has time to consult the banks and a lawyer.

This will be introduced "very soon", Bin Galita.

"We need a cool-of period of 15 days. That's two weeks to speak to your wife, consult the bank, get approved finance, before committing to a contract because a contract is binding," Bin Galita added.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10289528.html


----------



## IISinbadII

Imre said:


> *Rera chief says rents could decline up to 50% *


How about Service Charges? :bash:


----------



## gerald.d

At this rate, the service charges will be more than 50% of the rental cost.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ should hopefully drop when owners are given control


----------



## mdxb

yesramkumar said:


> Today Tamweel sent a SMS saying that " Land registration previously due on 25-02-2009 is deferred till completion post discussion with Lands Dept. Your letter confirming this is in the post. Tamweel ". Has anyone got this SMS?


We got the SMS too and that is really good because our visit and call to Land Department and RERA about this produced no results. No one there could provide us any details or clarifications of Law no 13 and how it affects those who already bought off plan apartments which I'm not sure if will ever be constructed.


----------



## peacesells

desertmaster said:


> Number of Dubai property developers falls by 47% to 427 developers - 25Feb09 (3:52)
> http://www.zawya.com/video/default.cfm/sidVID20090225100809


It didn't drop by that much. Somebody finally explained to those idiots that each developer creates a separate legal entity for each project. :bash:


----------



## peacesells

Imre said:


> *Monthly progress reports for 875 projects *
> Dubai: Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) will plot the progress of every single project underway in Dubai on their website starting next week.


I was at the Cisco presentation of this feature last week. Looks pretty basic (they will show whether it is on time, behind schedule, on hold and will have 5 levels of progress), although you will be able to get detailed reports for a fee. Apparently, there will be a discussion forum on the official RERA website as well, so that should be fun :banana:


----------



## skdubai

hey.. dunno if it is appropriate to ask here, but can you suggest an agent if i wanted to find a 3 Br serviced villa in the springs for 2 months? It is kinda urgent, so any help will be appreciated. Also how much should i expect to pay for it?


----------



## peacesells

IISinbadII said:


> How about Service Charges? :bash:


That will depend on your current level of charges. I spoke on an informal basis to a rep of a pretty decent property management company and she told me that a fair rate for a typical Marina tower is somewhere around 17 dhs a square foot, but I am sure that if your owner's association takes the matter seriously, it can be substantially lowered.



> hey.. dunno if it is appropriate to ask here, but can you suggest an agent if i wanted to find a 3 Br serviced villa in the springs for 2 months? It is kinda urgent, so any help will be appreciated. Also how much should i expect to pay for it?


Check PM.


----------



## skdubai

thanx peacesells... much appreciated!!


----------



## desertmaster

*FOR A CHANGE .......*

Feng Shui Expert Sees Dubai Property Market Bouncing Back
Publish Date: 2009-02-22 07:00:08 Story Code: 11000

DUBAI - Although we have not yet reached the stage where distraught estate agents leap from skyscrapers, few would dispute that the property  market in Dubai is in decline.

One of the few who would say otherwise is Priya Khanna. The Dubai-based Feng Shui guru believes that all elements are in place for a huge surge in the real estate market this summer.

�We are facing a downturn, but this is a very temporary phase,� she said. �We are talking about a period of only around 30 days before we start seeing a huge upturn.

�The property market is an earth element. We are positioned in the Middle East, which is an earth area, and 2009 is an earth year. All of these things together mean that for the UAE at least, we will see a very positive year.

�This is because we are now moving into the summer, which is a fire element. With the combination of fire and earth we will see very promising results.�

Feng Shui is the ancient Chinese science of determining the movement of energy around landscapes based on the principles of the five elements.

Khanna said that she has carried out a detailed survey of Dubai and believes that coupled with the auspicious timing, some new developments such as extending the creek through Safa Park may bring greater prosperity in the future.

�If the water is brought into the mainstream of Shaikh Zayed Road, then we won�t have to look  back ever again,� she said. 

�By bringing in the water dragon from the sea in the northeast, it will connect to the central portions of the city and flow into the southeast. The way it flows will create a stream of prosperity.

�It will be fantastic for Dubai,� she added. �We will see growth everywhere, from Business Bay to Burj Dubai and Arabian Ranches.�

Khanna said energies were flowing most weakly in the south, where there have been delays in handover of  Jumeirah Village.

Although the energy is weak, there are ways in which developers can stimulate energy flow there, most notably in the design of the buildings. 

Round buildings, which carry the metal element, should be used in those areas to improve the flow, she said.� 

Khanna graduated with a master�s certificate in Feng Shui in 2000 from Malaysia. When she started her business, Elements Feng Shui General Trading, in 2002, she became the first recognised practitioner in the Gulf.

Many of her studies have been based on Dubai and she believes that the city will have a bright future as long as it does not extend beyond the Green Community.

�If we move beyond that, the energy will just leak out to Abu Dhabi,� she said. �It will be very bad for us, as all the energy we have will just be constantly pouring away.

�You can do what you want with Feng Shui in the city but all of it will be lost if the boundaries are not restricted very clearly.�

What is Feng Shui?

Feng Shui in English literally means �wind water� and is a Chinese form of geomancy believed to date back to 4000 BC. 

It is based on balancing the energy in an environment by creating harmony between yin and yang.

The philosophy of Feng Shui draws heavily on the ancient theory of the five elements (metal, wood, water, fire and earth), which create different energies when arranged differently.

Modern practitioners use magnetic compasses in divining the environment but early adherents relied on astronomy.

[email protected]


© Khaleej Times 2009. All rights reserved.


----------



## gerald.d

^^

:nuts: doesn't even cover it.


----------



## jixline

i didnt know Feng Shui involves taking lots of hallucinogens


----------



## Nachkebia

^^^^
:nuts::banana:


----------



## AltinD

^^ Feng Shui don't, but who knows, guru-ism might.


----------



## mrobbie

desertmaster said:


> Feng Shui Expert Sees Dubai Property Market Bouncing Back
> Publish Date: 2009-02-22 07:00:08


:banana: I'm glad we held on to our apartment now :banana:

That was published on 22 Feb, and there was 30 days until we see this upturn... only a few weeks to wait then. Lets hope the exchange rates stay as they are :cheers:


----------



## Cayman

> Feng Shui Expert Sees Dubai Property Market Bouncing Back


Where were they just before the market tanked? How come they never predicted it?


----------



## kano

^^^ They make more money in solving than predicting...You will see alot of people going to her now to energise their homes.


----------



## HappyLarry

kano said:


> ^^^ They make more money in solving than predicting...You will see alot of people going to her now to energise their homes.


I guess DEWA has got competition.


----------



## kano

Cayman said:


> Where were they just before the market tanked? How come they never predicted it?


 You can ofcourse e mail her and ask the question if you really want>


----------



## Cayman

kano said:


> You can ofcourse e mail her and ask the question if you really want>


LOL 

These people are like the Nostrodamus crowd. Keep making predictions and statistically most of them have a 50% probability of becoming true.

When one prediction eventually does become true, they make a big hoopla.

Just out of curiosity, if someone knows the exact date the markets are going to turn around, why announce it to the whole world. If I know the magic date, I will keep it to myself and start buying big time. Why tell the world and increase competition?

Unless of course I was caught up with a bunch of propoerties bought at the peak and now trying to create a 'mini-peak' to dispose them of.

In my opinion, this type of wizards are a complete WOFTAM!


----------



## Cayman

Posted by 'Dubai is Cool' in PJA forum:



Dubai is Cool said:


> For those who are afraid that they will lose all their money if they don't sell now, then they are mistaken.
> 
> I just watched an intreview on Alarabiya chanel with Mr. Marwan (RERA Head), he made it clear that:
> 
> The 30%-70% refund policy is NOT calculated on the contract value.
> 
> It is calculated on ANY AMOUNT PAID to any developer,
> 
> For example: if someone have paid 1 million to any developer and cannot continue (for any reason), then he can claim 70% back, i.e. get 700,000 back
> 
> This is for sure, I have recorded the intreviw and can post it.


----------



## Cayman

Imre said:


> expatriates.com
> 
> almost 1 million...
> 
> Description:
> springs 4M 1,100,000
> 
> springs 3M 1,600,000
> 
> buyers only
> 
> not for agents and freelancers
> 
> 
> another one
> 
> Description: Springs type 4m selling price- Aed 1.050 call 050..



So it is fair to say the Springs 4M are going for around a million. These are the pre-2006 prices!


----------



## Cayman

austdec said:


> I think one has to be careful when quoting Lake City rentals as a representation of whats happening to rentals in JLT. Yes rentals are falling but if you have been inside Lake City Tower you will understand why they are asking 65-85K for a 1br.
> 
> Having looked at the apartments and facilities in Lake City, the building is a disgrace and should be condemned! I wouldnt pay 30K for a studio there..:nuts:


Fully agree with the finished in Lake City. It is such a shame for a building in such a fantastic location, bang in front of the metro stations.

The finishes in most towers in Dubai are by and large sub standard , but for some reason the finishes in this building are nothing short of appalling. Their swimming pool is the size of a Jacuzzi!

Back in the days I gave a written offer of AED 1.3M for a 1 bed room there, primarily because of the location and was turned down. I am glad he did.

The best finishes I have seen in JLT are at the 3 Green Lakes towers. Fantastic!


----------



## Imre

Cayman said:


> Posted by 'Dubai is Cool' in PJA forum:


this is ridiculous , this law came out in August 2008 and we still dont know what does it mean

I asked some developers they said , 30% of the selling price , now the RERA says 30% of the amount what we paid.

:weird::toilet::dunno:


----------



## Cayman

Imre said:


> this is ridiculous , this law came out in August 2008 and we still dont know what does it mean
> 
> I asked some developers they said , 30% of the selling price , now the RERA says 30% of the amount what we paid.
> 
> :weird::toilet::dunno:


I share your frustration Imre.

But now that the horse himself has spoken, I think this is it!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Cayman said:


> So it is fair to say the Springs 4M are going for around a million. These are the pre-2006 prices!


So if there is another boom we will get back to mid 2008 prices and then what another crash?


----------



## Naz UK

Imre said:


> expatriates.com
> 
> almost 1 million...
> 
> Description:
> springs 4M 1,100,000
> 
> springs 3M 1,600,000
> 
> buyers only
> 
> not for agents and freelancers
> 
> 
> another one
> 
> Description: Springs type 4m selling price- Aed 1.050 call 050..


Too expensive. Will wait a little while longer.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

How much can you rent a springs 4M for now?


----------



## Imre

Dubai is Cool said:


> For those who are afraid that they will lose all their money if they don't sell now, then they are mistaken.
> 
> I just watched an intreview on Alarabiya chanel with Mr. Marwan (RERA Head), he made it clear that:
> 
> The 30%-70% refund policy is NOT calculated on the contract value.
> 
> It is calculated on ANY AMOUNT PAID to any developer,
> 
> For example: if someone have paid 1 million to any developer and cannot continue (for any reason), then he can claim 70% back, i.e. get 700,000 back
> 
> This is for sure, I have recorded the intreviw and can post it.


Thanks for Dubai is Cool


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> How much can you rent a springs 4M for now?


"The good thing is tenants can now find affordable units," Bin Galita said.

Whereas in the first rental index, the average rent for a two-bed villa in the Springs was Dh190,000-Dh230,000, these same villas can now be snapped up for *Dh85,000 *by those lucky enough to strike a bargain.


----------



## desertmaster

*Tough love can bring Gulf back*

The best policy for dealing with Gulf companies right now can be summed up in three words: sink or swim. 

That is the view of Ali al Shihabi, the founder and chief executive of Rasmala, an investment bank in Dubai. From his office in the Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC), Mr al Shihabi supports a policy of directness, consolidation and tough love for troubled companies as the best road to recovery.
“Every project cancelled is a project that I’m happy was cancelled,” he says. Such developments will provide signs that the economy is bouncing back.

But Mr al Shihabi, 49, is not a doom-and-gloomer. In fact, quite the opposite.

Although Dubai stocks have fallen 73 per cent in the past year and property prices have lost nearly a third of their value by some estimates, he believes the emirate will fare better this year than the rest of the world.
Dubai’s economy, and the Gulf as a whole, could even experience an economic turnaround as soon as September, he says, if policy makers decide to face the problem directly. “You can’t cure a disease without diagnosing it correctly. And I don’t think we have fully diagnosed the extent of the problem.”

Born to a Norwegian mother and a Saudi Arabian father who served as a diplomat, Mr al Shihabi spent his childhood in Turkey, followed by stints in Lebanon and Switzerland. After studying political science at Princeton University, and working several years with JP Morgan in New York City and London, he got his MBA from Harvard Business School.
Four years later, he returned to Saudi Arabia for what he describes as a “crash course in crisis management”, in what would become the hostile takeover of Saudi Hollandi Bank. It was that experience, he says, that taught him the most about what needs to be done in the Gulf to overcome the current financial crisis.

“Hollandi was a very interesting experience for me, because I effectively took control of a bank at the age of 30,” he says. “We completely restructured that bank, turned it upside down, and I was just four years out of business school.”
Although the bank had some difficulties at first, within a few years it was earning healthy profits. Mr al Shihabi says the task of re-founding the bank opened his eyes to a tendency among Gulf businessmen to underestimate how much work it takes to create lasting institutions.
For example, say we announce that we are going to build a university. People here think it is just a question of finishing the construction, then populating it, and the job is done! What we don’t realise is that building a quality university is a 50 to 100-year project.
“In the same way, building a company is a many-year project,” he says. “I could give you a billion dollars today, but you won’t be able to build a world-class company in a year or two. It takes time to build the culture, to recruit the people, to acquire the institutional experience. 

“Look at a Goldman Sachs or a Mercedes-Benz, they have spent years building these things. This is something that people in the Gulf do not understand yet. They think you can buy anything and build it very quickly.”
According to Mr al Shihabi, Dubai became particularly vulnerable to this type of thinking during the past few years. For a time, funding was easy to come by, and far too many companies were created without giving much attention to the kind of intangible structures that would be necessary to make them last. 

“One of the reasons why you’re going to see so many business failures in this crisis, is that many of these companies were built on a very superficial foundation,” he says. “Many of the companies that are going to fail are the ones that have come up in the last couple of years, which had a lot of money, and little else.”
But, he says, the sooner those companies are allowed to fail, consolidate or restructure, the better. A government policy which embraces that fact would provide the quickest road to recovery. However, “if policy making continues to be reactive, rather than proactive, we might end up taking 12 months, or a bit more, until we see a substantial turnaround”.
Although the recent announcement that Dubai will receive up to US$20 billion (Dh73.45bn) in federal aid will boost confidence, spending it incorrectly could merely prolong the recovery process, he says. “The money should not be allocated to supporting weak, underperforming entities.”
Although he does not say it, his opinions on the matter do carry a special weight, given the three years he spent working at the Saudi Arabian Monetary Authority overseeing an economy several times larger than the UAE’s.

Mr al Shihabi believes the authorities should focus on sectors where the Emirates has a competitive advantage: business services, hospitality, logistics and transport. Those sections of the economy remain firm, and investors should be reminded of this, he says.
The problem is that in the past few years a parallel economy of “excess and exuberance” has mushroomed in Dubai, and nearly overshadowed the projects that made financial sense.

“I would mention the Palm 2 and the Palm 3, and some of the other very large projects that were to be the size of Hong Kong or New York. In addition, the overseas investments that were outside Dubai’s core expertise,” he says.
“Dubai has a number of offerings that are extremely competitive globally, and that is what they should focus on.”

A certain amount of consolidation is also necessary inthe Gulf, he believes, especially among the banks and financial services companies. Mr al Shihabi compares the UAE, which has more than 20 local banks, to Saudi Arabia, which has five times the population and twice the GDP, but only nine banks.
Eventually, the UAE banking sector should be reduced to two: one big Abu Dhabi bank and one Dubai bank, he says.

“There are too many financial institutions and very few of them have critical mass. Regulators need to encourage and, in some cases, force consolidation.” 

Mr al Shihabi’s own company, originally founded in 2000 as a private equity firm, has done relatively well since the economic crisis hit the Gulf, and is even expanding. The firm, which has private equity, asset management and brokerage divisions, has sometimes been derided for its conservative approach to investing. But recently, its characteristically low-risk appetite has paid off.
Last summer, the firm decided to exit many of its property-related investments and move into cash. As a result, Rasmala has remained both profitable and relatively liquid, while other investment banks have suffered. 
Although Rasmala still expects the financial crisis to lower its profitability this year, the firm is using the economic lull as an opportunity to branch out and hire new talent. In fact, Rasmala is opening offices in Abu Dhabi and Jeddah this year.
Despite the wave of negative attention that Dubai has been receiving lately for its economic troubles, he remains optimistic about the region’s future. 

“People have been waiting to gloat a bit,” he said. “Dubai was the Donald Trump of the region, and I think that generated a lot of envy. 

“Still, I think Dubai will surprise people, it will do much better than people think it’s going to do.”

Travis Pantin
Last Updated: February 26. 2009 7:38PM UAE / February 26. 2009 3:38PM GMT

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090226/BUSINESS/948637345/1354


----------



## IISinbadII

Imre said:


> "The good thing is tenants can now find affordable units," Bin Galita said.
> 
> Whereas in the first rental index, the average rent for a two-bed villa in the Springs was Dh190,000-Dh230,000, these same villas can now be snapped up for *Dh85,000 *by those lucky enough to strike a bargain.



^^ I felt kinda claustrophobic in one of them 2br units. everything was small. The tub in one bathroom was for the dwarfs. I wanted to get out asap. And they look old. I would rater live in an apartment with an open view, than live in these townhouses.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ but I think they are over 1600 sq/ft, 800 sq/ft per floor? The average 2 bed in the marina is around 1200 to 1400 sq ft.


----------



## Naz UK

I find them rather cosy, but i'm talking about the 3Es, not 4m's. Not willing to pay a penny over 800K for one though. I'd do a Montgomery Burns on this one and bide my time.


----------



## smussuw

Dubai_Steve said:


> How much can you rent a springs 4M for now?


or how much do they deserve? No more than 80k for me :banana:


----------



## Cayman

Imre said:


> "The good thing is tenants can now find affordable units," Bin Galita said.
> 
> Whereas in the first rental index, the average rent for a two-bed villa in the Springs was Dh190,000-Dh230,000, these same villas can now be snapped up for *Dh85,000 *by those lucky enough to strike a bargain.


Cheapest I have seen advertised was 130K. Where did you see them for 85K?


----------



## Cayman

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ but I think they are over 1600 sq/ft, 800 sq/ft per floor? The average 2 bed in the marina is around 1200 to 1400 sq ft.


Steve, 

The 1600 sqft BUA is calculated including the double car garage, which in itself is close to 400 sqft I think.

In an apartment, usually car park is not part of the built up area.


----------



## Cayman

Naz UK said:


> I find them rather cosy, but i'm talking about the 3Es, not 4m's. Not willing to pay a penny over 800K for one though. I'd do a Montgomery Burns on this one and bide my time.


3M's not only have a better lay out, but bigger as well.


----------



## Imre

Cayman said:


> Cheapest I have seen advertised was 130K. Where did you see them for 85K?



http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10289427.html


----------



## Dubai is Cool

Marwan Bin Galita (right), CEO of Rera confirms that the 70% refund is on paid amounts and not on the value of contract.

here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzIUnD8Il7M


----------



## IISinbadII

BC = Bay Central (Dubai Marina)
OP = original price


----------



## mission

THANKS SINBAD, SIMPLE PEOPLE SIMPLE MINDS


----------



## High Times

mackie1964 said:


> Yes Glover, I am looking for a bargain and I think it still has 20% to 30% yet to go down IMOHM


Good luck with that.

These comments are not aimed specifically at anyone, just a general view.

The problem with all this "I think the market has another 20% to fall" or "I think the market will pick up by 15% next year”, or “the market has fallen by 40% so far this year”, which is often banded around on the Dubai property market, is that it is based on absolutely nothing at all. No real numbers publicly exist to make realistic analysis or predictions unless they are personal to ones self, in which case it is too specific to be regarded as generally accurate. A bit like a scientific research unit testing 1 specimen. It’s useless information until you start using mean averages of more than 100 to carry any legitimacy in my view. A prime example of these type of distorted statistical anomalies can be found at Alineah here - http://www.alineah.com/market_analysis.asp

People have been basing price rises and falls on totally fictitious values. The only real values are those which have been agreed contractually, and in Dubai they are only known by the buyer, seller and agents.

The increase in off plan launch prices we saw in 2007 & 2008 up until September of 2008 have just distorted the market and created a totally fictitious price bubble which has now clearly burst, but only due to the fact that people were forced to stop blowing into the bubble with lender fuelled leveraging, which will not be resumed or repeated EVER.

The bottom line is any property's true value is only the land it stands on, and it's construction costs, however even construction costs have been spiralling downward now that the world has stopped building. Any amount on top of that figure is just “good will, speculation, or inflation”. When building “Dubai style” (medium and high rise developments), this takes the bottom line value way down in terms of AED psf. Compared to that of a villa or house in a normal city around the world.

I am much less bullish about the future of Dubai now than I was 8 months ago when I was posting that cracks were beginning to appear in the shiny surface of the Dubai dream. Much to many formers distaste and disagreement.

As I research more, and learn more about Dubai and the UAE it is become more apparent to me that from an investors point of view the Dubai vision, or business plan, is fundamentally flawed in both it’s planning and more worrying it’s execution.

*A good plan properly executed results in success. Even a poor plan properly executed can achieve it’s goal, but a poor plan poorly executed can deliver nothing but failure. *

It is a real shame that it has gone this way, but that is what happens when you allow your future to be shaped by people you are paying vast sums of money because you and your own kin simply do not have the knowledge, experience or ability to deliver the vision you wish for your people.

Personally for me Dubai will be an excellent place to own an additional property to use in the European winter months for both business and pleasure, and I suspect there will be several hundreds of thousands of people just like me. There will also be many people who will use Dubai as an interesting 3-4 day stopover on pan European and Asian travels. 

Unfortunately, Dubai on it’s current trajectory, is not destined to deliver what it originally offered, and will therefore in my eyes have failed it’s mission. Largely due to poor planning, insufficient regulatory supervision, no real planning and building controls in place to sufficiently manage the building of a properly functioning and performing social economic development, and ultimately greed. The downfall of many a great Empire, Nation and Men.

This will sound very very arrogant, and I hope I am wrong, but I rarely am.

Basically the govner fell asleep on the job with this one. 

Unless I am very much mistaken, or someone on the top table decides to wake up and smell the gahwa. I will probably look back on my experiences in purchasing off plan property in Dubai as an interesting episode, which effectively resulted in a great currency exchange deal, but not much more.

You live and learn.


----------



## mission

I agree with you ,,,,,,,, You brought off plan then>???, where did u buy


----------



## glover

sorry HT, but the train has already left the station. it is only stopping now because there is a world wide union strike, so the government better take this as an opportunity to refuel, clean, and change passengers. just like they succeeded in getting dubai to where it is today, they will succeed in resuming the trip. 

living in the UK must be really tough now, especially with all the bad news and talk of UK depression. that does not mean other countries will suffer the same. Dubai is still projected to grow this year at around 2%.


High Times said:


> I am much less bullish about the future of Dubai now than I was 8 months ago when I was posting that cracks were beginning to appear in the shiny surface of the Dubai dream. Much to many formers distaste and disagreement.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

mackie1964 said:


> I am looking for a bargain and I think it still has 20% to 30% yet to go down IMOHM


If you take an isolated example that you are interested in at the moment.

Marinascape 2 bed - current bottom distressed bargain price for marina view is 1.7m from those few who could not make the final payment to Trident.

Do you seriously expect that to fall to 1.2m? I can't see it somehow, the very few units available at 1.7m will be bought for cash much before they go anywhere near to 1.2m.

I would say we are very close to the bottom price already.


----------



## mackie1964

High Times said:


> This will sound very very arrogant, and I hope I am wrong, but I rarely am.


:lol::lol:

I am beginning to wonder, you seem to change your mind like the wind :lol::lol: read some of your early posts :lol: 

You made a little mistake joining Glover's train late (despite the discount and the exchange rate bollox) and you would be making the same mistake exiting early

Glover used to be right all the time (or at least he told us so) but he has learnt to adopt  

It's ok to be wrong sometimes you know :dunno: no body can be always right. I don't get these figures of the air but I also said that it was my own opinion, I take it we are allowed still to express that :dunno: :cheers:



Dubai_Steve said:


> If you take an isolated example that you are interested in at the moment.
> 
> Marinascape 2 bed - current bottom distressed bargain price for marina view is 1.7m from those few who could not make the final payment to Trident.
> 
> Do you seriously expect that to fall to 1.2m? I can't see it somehow, the very few units available at 1.7m will be bought for cash much before they go anywhere near to 1.2m.
> 
> I would say we are very close to the bottom price already.


You will be amazed what you get in your inbox :tongue4: or what this nice clever Hungarian can find for you :banana:


----------



## DaYFox

What is this all about??? A bad joke???



jagmp said:


> nearly gave me a heart attack.:nono:hno:
> 
> Originally Posted by Money2Burn
> Saturday, February 28, 2009
> Natural disaster destroys 95% of Business Bay towers
> Original published: Golf News
> 
> The coastal region of the emirate Dubai and Abu Dhabi has been hit hard by a sand storm rated at 12.5 on the Ha-Boob scale. Several high rise buildings in the Shaik Zayed Road, Business Bay and Burj Dubai area, even those still under construction and including the worlds tallest structure tower Burj Dubai have been totally demolished by this natural disaster of unseen force. Spokesman of Dubai Properties confirms that the Executive Towers have literally "vanished from the surface of the earth". No official statement was available from EMAAR. Mr. A.H.Halabi, chief of the Dubai's Civil Defense told us that thousands of workers are still missing with some bodies found as far as 50km in the desert. The damage is being calculated by local authorities but early estimates talk about DHS80-100Bil.


----------



## jagmp

a very bad joke.can't be taken kindly.hno::bash:


----------



## iced

High Times said:


> Good luck with that.
> 
> These comments are not aimed specifically at anyone, just a general view.
> 
> The problem with all this "I think the market has another 20% to fall" or "I think the market will pick up by 15% next year”, or “the market has fallen by 40% so far this year”, which is often banded around on the Dubai property market, is that it is based on absolutely nothing at all. No real numbers publicly exist to make realistic analysis or predictions unless they are personal to ones self, in which case it is too specific to be regarded as generally accurate. A bit like a scientific research unit testing 1 specimen. It’s useless information until you start using mean averages of more than 100 to carry any legitimacy in my view. A prime example of these type of distorted statistical anomalies can be found at Alineah here - http://www.alineah.com/market_analysis.asp
> 
> People have been basing price rises and falls on totally fictitious values. The only real values are those which have been agreed contractually, and in Dubai they are only known by the buyer, seller and agents.
> 
> The increase in off plan launch prices we saw in 2007 & 2008 up until September of 2008 have just distorted the market and created a totally fictitious price bubble which has now clearly burst, but only due to the fact that people were forced to stop blowing into the bubble with lender fuelled leveraging, which will not be resumed or repeated EVER.
> 
> The bottom line is any property's true value is only the land it stands on, and it's construction costs, however even construction costs have been spiralling downward now that the world has stopped building. Any amount on top of that figure is just “good will, speculation, or inflation”. When building “Dubai style” (medium and high rise developments), this takes the bottom line value way down in terms of AED psf. Compared to that of a villa or house in a normal city around the world.
> 
> I am much less bullish about the future of Dubai now than I was 8 months ago when I was posting that cracks were beginning to appear in the shiny surface of the Dubai dream. Much to many formers distaste and disagreement.
> 
> As I research more, and learn more about Dubai and the UAE it is become more apparent to me that from an investors point of view the Dubai vision, or business plan, is fundamentally flawed in both it’s planning and more worrying it’s execution.
> 
> *A good plan properly executed results in success. Even a poor plan properly executed can achieve it’s goal, but a poor plan poorly executed can deliver nothing but failure. *
> 
> It is a real shame that it has gone this way, but that is what happens when you allow your future to be shaped by people you are paying vast sums of money because you and your own kin simply do not have the knowledge, experience or ability to deliver the vision you wish for your people.
> 
> Personally for me Dubai will be an excellent place to own an additional property to use in the European winter months for both business and pleasure, and I suspect there will be several hundreds of thousands of people just like me. There will also be many people who will use Dubai as an interesting 3-4 day stopover on pan European and Asian travels.
> 
> Unfortunately, Dubai on it’s current trajectory, is not destined to deliver what it originally offered, and will therefore in my eyes have failed it’s mission. Largely due to poor planning, insufficient regulatory supervision, no real planning and building controls in place to sufficiently manage the building of a properly functioning and performing social economic development, and ultimately greed. The downfall of many a great Empire, Nation and Men.
> 
> This will sound very very arrogant, and I hope I am wrong, but I rarely am.
> 
> Basically the govner fell asleep on the job with this one.
> 
> Unless I am very much mistaken, or someone on the top table decides to wake up and smell the gahwa. I will probably look back on my experiences in purchasing off plan property in Dubai as an interesting episode, which effectively resulted in a great currency exchange deal, but not much more.
> 
> You live and learn.


Some excellent points made. Dubai is often compared to Singapore and there prices fell 70%+. Also Hong Kong prices fell and have not recovered to their previous peaks in over decade. In such severe economic times these are valid yardsticks to judge Dubai and how far it will fall. 

I believe 70%+ plus falls are likely and there will be a recovery. The time and magnitude is the big question but dubai will recover to some degree. The large cities of Asia have done this but it may take time.

Dubai is part of the UAE which will grow although slowly in the next few years. Prices will come back even for off plan. History has shown fear and greed and boom and bust will continue.

I dont see any recovery this year but when the next cycle starts most people would have forgetten about the current cycle. Probably the western economies need to strengthen before Dubai does.

investment involves a degree of risk and return. However if you are looking for a home then price becomes less of an issue apart from mayybe the buying price. 

If we do get another 20%- 30% falls the prices to buy a second home become really tempting. 

For me monetary union is the key. If that is brought forward or proceeds close to the time lines then this factor could also aid in stablising prices.


----------



## malec

What about all the trade, and businesses in the freezones, etc?

Anyway, what was the grand plan? There didn't seem to be any given that so many projects were planned without taking into account other planned projects.


----------



## AltinD

High Times said:


> Can anyone point me in the direction to find out how to set up a free zone trading company in Dubai please.
> 
> Is there a thread anywhere where people can pass on tips hints on how to do it?
> 
> Has anyone actually done it and would be willing to share some info on how to proceeed.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


When we opened our trading company in the Free Zone back in 2000, I was the one to follow up with the registration process.


----------



## AltinD

Dubai_Steve said:


> How do they test for that, is there a multiple choice exam? :lol:


Do you have a good character?

a. Yes
b. No
c. Not Sure
d. No Answer


----------



## bizzybonita

e. a,b,c,d


----------



## Dubai_Steve

AltinD said:


> Do you have a good character?
> 
> a. Yes
> b. No
> c. Not Sure
> d. No Answer


The correct answer is c, it shows modesty


----------



## luluprovence

----------------


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Dubai's property regulator is planning to get tough on developers who fail to meet standards on issues such as delivery schedules and quality, it was revealed on Thursday.

The Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) will soon "name and shame" those builders to break promises to investors, Marwan Bin Galita, its chief executive, has said.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/547292-rera-vows-to-name-and-shame-developers


----------



## 234sale

I heard they were going to make a ground breaking website with photos of all approved developments. What a great idea...

Are the big 3 approved?

lol


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai is still the business hub for the region. Its still a preferred destination for holiday makers in this part of the world. And its still a fast growing city. 

If it continues to build its infrastructure, offers business, investor and end-user friendly environment, including long term visas for property owners and keeps its streets clean and safe for families......it will do fine, IMO.


----------



## Imre

agod said:


> Hi HT
> 
> I am actually going through the process at the moment, but it is for a RAK Free Zone Licence, it's cheaper and gives you the same residency rights anywhere in the Emirates, which is what I want it for, I can put you on to them, or if it is Dubai you want, you need to do a bit of Googly.
> 
> Al


What is the total cost of your company in the RAK Free Zone?

Will you have a 3 years visa?


----------



## Wannaberich

DubaiExpat said:


> VISA for Qatar Expat Property Investors:
> 
> Today Qatar has announced in a press release the following:
> 
> Foreign investors/property buyers and their dependents (wives and children) are to be issued visas for five years provided they produce the required documents and have good reputation and conduct and pass the medical test. Their visas are renewable once or several times over for similar periods.
> 
> The above person, if ordered to be deported by a court or otherwise, cannot return except through a ministerial decision.
> 
> He will, however, be allowed 90 days’ time to fulfill his commitments.


Thats the way to do it.
Sheik Mo take note !


----------



## DubaiExpat

dbxdude said:


> Question is this:
> 
> Can you walk away from the house and all debts canceled or must you flee the UAE? What is the law? I know the banks all have cheques for the full ammount but what is the law?
> 
> I ask because if you have a 8m dhs mortage and the house is worth 4m dhs, then it makes sense to hand it back, and buy the one next door and thus reduce your debt by half.
> 
> So if legally you can default and all the bank can do is seize the house, then you can stay in the UAE. This question will be more important as hundreds of thousands of people leave the UAE in the coming months and the few that remain are well and truly up the creek without a paddle, they may not want to leave but be forced to.....


u can not walk away or flee because they will then present & bounce the cheque to proceed with legal action.

that's sensible as long as u find a buyer with cash in hand.

legally there is no question of defaulting.


----------



## Dubai is Cool

DubaiExpat said:


> RERA Update: My wife was at the rera office this morning. She met some senior personnel regarding the 30:70 cancellation clause. They are themselves not sure & confirmed that rera has frozen all the escrow accounts. Case to case basis they are reviewing. But 30:70 is applicable only if you have paid a minimum of 30% and anything above that will fall into this refund mechanism - 70% of that would be refunded in case of developer default. They suggested if you feel to then lodge a case in the dubai courts.


But Marwan Bin Galita CEO of Rera himself confirmed last week on Alarabiya TV that the 70% refund is on paid amounts and not on the value of contract.

here is the video link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzIUnD8Il7M

Why don't you make a printout of the screenshot which is typed on it this information and show it to RERA representitive if he is not sure about what he is saying !!

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/580/marwanf.jpg


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

DubaiExpat said:


> u can not walk away or flee because they will then present & bounce the cheque to proceed with legal action.
> 
> that's sensible as long as u find a buyer with cash in hand.
> 
> legally there is no question of defaulting.


So what happens when you are made redundant? Your visa gets cancelled and you can no longer afford your mortgage? I highly doubt anyone would stick around to ensure they get jailed in debtor's prison... Go home to family and friends -or- stay here and goto jail... not that tough a decision.. hno:

Even if most people wanted to take honest actions and pay their debts, the laws here would prevent them from doing so... hence, empty villas and abandoned cars at the airport...


----------



## Typhoonpilot

Bongoboots said:


> Excellent post Typhoon Pilot. Problem is how to get money back- I've been trying to call RERA about the fact that it has taken more than 6 months to start the project but can't get through to them - Article17 of Law No 8 of 2007 states that a developers registration shall be cancelled from the register if it has not started structural works after the lapse of 6 months from the date of approval of the off plan sales without acceptable excuse. So what does that mean for us? I think the sensible thing for the developer to do would be just to shelve the project due to unprecedented market conditions and refund our money - that way they can walk away with their reputation intact- here's hoping!



Hi Bongo:


I agree, shelving the project is the best thing for us. Sadly Aristocrat Star seems to be going ahead. I was out there today and drove onto the site. I entered at the unfinished Palisades structure and turned right down the sand packed road until getting to the corner closest to Ewan and Green Community West. There were a few cars there with some guys laying concrete blocks. Met two gentlemen working on the Royal Estates project. They said the structure they were going to build there would be the showroom/office for the project. They said that construction of the buildings was going to commence in May. 



TP


----------



## smussuw

^^ so they should run away stealing others money?


----------



## skdubai

^^ thats the point, there is no recourse.... there is no provision for honest people who want to repay their loan, but cannot afford to because of the current circumstances...
The banks too are less understanding round here anyways...


----------



## DubaiExpat

honestly speaking - personal experience - when u change jobs for the interim period of visa transfer banks need a guarantor. do u think anyone would stand a guaranty?

i stood for a friend??? and later he ran away and i was forced to pay his outstandings including credit card bills.

once v approach the bank, first they try to safeguard their interest. they ask for a guarantor and if no guarantor then they would immediately bounce your cheque & file a case.

being a guarantor, the bank called me & i agreed to pay my friend's??? loan but still they presented my guaranty cheque & bounced it.

so i will not be surprised if they behave the same way in a mortgage default as well.


----------



## tehsin123

*13 Aussies arrested in Dubai bribery probe*


Three high flying property executives, including two Nakheel employees, are among 13 Australians that have been arrested as part of a major bribery probe in Dubai.

Among those jailed, detained or under house arrest is the former managing director of state-owned Nakheel's Dubai Waterfront development Matthew Joyce. He has not been charged.

Also under investigation is David Brown, architect and middle eastern head of the Sunland Group - a development company part-owned by wealthy Aussie James Packer. Brown has apparently been interrogated eight times and had his passport confiscated.

Sunland has denied Brown's arrest, saying he is there as a witness to the investigation.

Also in jail without charge is Marcus Lee - a senior executive with Nakheel. He has not been charged.

It is believed the bribery allegations involve millions of dollars in consultancy payments by Sunland to Nakheel and a third party over a waterfront property purchase.

Lawyers and Australian authorities are particularly concerned by the probe.

They say Lee and Joyce have been in solitary confinement since January 25, their mental health is suffering and that they have had only little access to family and lawyers.

Worse still, United Arab Emirates laws allow suspects to be held indefinitely without charge.

Top Aussie newspaper the Sydney Morning Herald has reported the men may be scapegoats.

It reports: "There is a lot of face-saving to be done," said one Melbourne property player well versed in business in Dubai. "The sheik can never be responsible, so somebody else has to be."

Nakheel's Dubai Waterfront is the world's largest coastal development and consists of canals and artificial islands that will shelter around Palm Jebel Ali.

http://www.contractjournal.com/blog...g/2009/03/13-aussies-arrested-in-dubai-b.html


----------



## luluprovence

---------------


----------



## pal78

*Any news ?*

Any news on that project, to be delivered... early 2008 ?! 

_PAYMENT PLAN:

.../...Outstanding Balance 35% Completion (expected early 2008)

LOCATION:

Bermuda Views is located on plot R9-10 close to amenities in Dubai Sports City, and a short walk to the stadiums._

source : the most reliable real estate agency in dubai... : dubaiwaterfronts:lol: !!!


----------



## dbxdude

smussuw said:


> ^^ so they should run away stealing others money?


Not what I was saying, the lender valued the property and as such confirmed the value. From my basic understanding of shiria finance, a lender cannot make money (profit) from money alone, when they lend they are in fact investing in the business or in this case asset and as such assume some stake holdership and risk. On the front of any amlak or tamweel contract it clearly states lease agreement NOT mortage. Obviously they will present a cheque to bounce but after that how will the courts rule. They r the owner till ur 25 year lease is complete, if u can't or don't want to pay surely all they can have is the house. Thus people in negative equity should b able to walk away from the property and clear the slate. 

As for stealing money, there are plenty of investors of off plan property in govt backed companies who will never see there investment built and have no chance of getting their money back. . ,


----------



## bizzybonita

Sunland says David Brown is helping probe 

on Tuesday, March 03, 2009

David Brown, Chief Operating Officer (Middle East) of Sunland Group Limited, is a witness to the authority's investigation, a statement from the group said yesterday.

The group reconfirmed that "no allegations have been made against Sunland or its executives in respect to its activities in Dubai. Brown is not a subject of investigation, nor has been arrested or detained" as reported by media. Some reports, had alleged that "David Brown, architect and the Middle Eastern head of Sunland Group, a Queensland development company, has been interrogated at least eight times and has had his passport confiscated in relation to a bribery investigation".

Managing Director Sahba Abedian said: "Sunland fully supports government's commitment to ensure the region's property market is transparent. We will continue to provide assistance. Maintaining the highest ethical standards has long been a core value of Sunland."


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/3/Pages/03032009_a4e852aabbf6420eac9fae3d891a7326.aspx


----------



## bizzybonita

* Correction in office rents likely in Q1 *


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/3/Pages/03012009_04b6797c0c164ce6a26aa023d5fd9198.aspx


----------



## lazy daisy

allk


----------



## speculator

Wannaberich said:


> There's so many good deals out there I feel there could be a surge of buying if the banks all started lending again and lowered their interest rates.
> 1.3m for a 2bed Palm appartment for example seems a great deal.


Problem is not the banks. Problem is people have lost the appetite for debt.


----------



## speculator

dbxdude said:


> Question is this:
> 
> Can you walk away from the house and all debts canceled or must you flee the UAE? What is the law? I know the banks all have cheques for the full ammount but what is the law?
> 
> I ask because if you have a 8m dhs mortage and the house is worth 4m dhs, then it makes sense to hand it back, and buy the one next door and thus reduce your debt by half.
> 
> So if legally you can default and all the bank can do is seize the house, then you can stay in the UAE. This question will be more important as hundreds of thousands of people leave the UAE in the coming months and the few that remain are well and truly up the creek without a paddle, they may not want to leave but be forced to.....


Im sure the lending rules are much the same worldwide and I would assume the clauses even tougher in the UAE. In the UK you cannot walk away....well you can try but then any shortfall/loss incurred by the lender will be against the borrower/defaulter. BUT thats if they can find the individual and thats not too hard these days. Only option then is to flee the country which of course is whats happening in the UAE. Some countries have treaties where the crime and debt is accountable. Usually people flee to the UAE due to the lack of these treaties. 

Unfortunately its not quite as easy as handing back the keys and buying the house next door for half the money because if that were the case we could all be making an infinite return.........these days.


----------



## Monument

*From today's FT*

Dubai contractors face cash flow crisis
By Robin Wigglesworth in Abu Dhabi and David Fickling in London

Published: March 2 2009 19:40 | Last updated: March 2 2009 19:40

In the latest sign of the slowdown enveloping the Gulf, contractors working in Dubai are facing severe cash flow problems as state-linked developers, hampered by blocked credit markets, *fleeing investors and a tumbling local property market, fail to meet their financial commitments. 

Some contractors and consultants have not been paid for up to six months, and large Dubai-affiliated developers owe billions of dollars, according to contractors, lawyers and executives. 

EDITOR’S CHOICE
Easing Dubai anxieties needs transparency - Mar-02Concerns linger over Dubai economy - Mar-01Dubai takes another dive into pearls - Feb-25Dubai says loan sufficient for next year - Feb-25Investors reassured by Dubai bail-out - Feb-23Lex: Dubai - Feb-23They say large government-controlled developers in the emirate, such as Nakheel and Emaar, are among those failing to pay.

Not so long ago Dubai was an Eldorado for construction and property companies. Attracted by some of the world’s most ostentatious and expensive projects, contractors from round the world flooded in to help the ambitious emirate turn itself into a modern metropolis. 

Now, according to economists at National Commercial Bank, Saudi Arabia’s largest lender, $250bn (€199bn, £178bn) of projects have been cancelled or delayed in the seven-state United Arab Emirates – the majority in Dubai. 

“The economy just stopped in the middle of November,” said Chris Cole, chief executive of WSP, a British design consultant active in the country. 

Spending on two of WSP’s contracts, the Dubai World Trade Centre and Meraas Developments, has been reined in since last November and the company is estimated to have set aside more than £4m to cover bad debts in the emirate.

Justin Atkinson, chief executive of Keller, a UK-based foundations specialist, said the company was still waiting to be paid for sums outstanding on the Palm Deira, an artificial island development that was scaled back late last year.

“The official line from developers is that we will be paid, but probably not this year,” said the regional head of a large European property consulting firm. “That is hard to explain to headquarters. We have our own bills to pay.” 

Neither of Dubai’s largest developers would confirm any delays in payment, saying that they would continue to honour contracts. “Payments for contractors and consultants are based on a credit cycle and set deliverables agreed with them,” said an Emaar spokesman. “All payments that meet the criteria have been honoured and will continue to be cleared, in line with our *contractual agreements.” 

A Nakheel spokesman said that all contracts would be honoured but the *company was seeking to renegotiate some in light of falling material and *construction costs. 

Payments have become harder to predict because they frequently depend on advance off-plan sales which have dried up, say some developers. “These days cash inflows are a matter of guesswork,” said Abid Junaid, a director of ETA Star Properties in Dubai. 

Lawyers said the room to renegotiate signed contracts was limited. “The courts and arbitration centres are getting bogged down with cases,” said Graham Lovett, managing partner at law firm Clifford Chance. “The volume is such that the entire system is in danger of being clogged up with these disputes.” 

Saud Masud, a UBS analyst, estimates that defaults by housebuyers and residential property investors in Dubai alone could cost developers as much as $25bn over the next two years. 

The federal UAE government has said it will lend $10bn to Dubai to help its state-linked companies refinance debts. However, with Dubai groaning under $80bn of debt – about $15bn of which is due this year – most of the $10bn is likely to be used to meet quasi-sovereign bond commitments, not contracting bills. 

Despite the cost and time involved, some contractors are readying lawsuits. “Politically and commercially it might make sense to just keep working, but after a while it starts hurting too much, and the gloves come off,” said Paul Davies, head of Denton Wilde Sapte’s regional property practice. 

“There certainly seems to be a willingness to sue the Dubai government-related companies that wasn’t there before,” said a partner of an international law firm in the UAE. “The argument ‘You will never work in this town again’ isn’t as persuasive when you’re facing bankruptcy.”


----------



## Imre

*Gowealthy to launch $325 million funds *


Dubai: Gowealthy Capital Limited, a subsidiary of Gowealthy Holdings, is to launch three property investment funds in the second quarter of 2009 with a combined value of $325 million (Dh1.19 billion).

While the details have yet to be ironed out, the residential funds will be launched on behalf of two "significant" developers - one of which is listed - according to Peter Penhall, chief executive of Gowealthy and senior executive officer of Gowealthy Capital Limited.

The funds will be regulated by Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC) and will have exit strategies.

The funds will have a duration of around five years as Penhall stressed the danger of investing in real estate for short-term gains. 

"Part of the problem in Dubai real estate in the past, was that there were too many short-term players of a speculatory nature and they all burnt their fingers badly. If you invest in property in the short term, you will lose at some point in time," Penhall warned.

The company is looking at four key markets to raise capital for the funds. These markets are unsurprisingly, the UAE and Saudi Arabia and also Ireland and the UK.

"Our understanding is that in local markets in Ireland and the UK crashing to the extent they have, and the recovery within those markets set to be much longer than in our local market, (investors) are looking for a different home for the short to medium term," said Penhall.

Once the equity has been raised, it will be taken and applied to the purchase of real estate assets. The assets could also be off-plan.

Penhall said these funds work best when the market is down, as it is now, as investors should benefit when the market picks up again.

Property prices today reflect prices back in 2006, Penhall said.

"Everyone is trying to catch this (pricing) curve at the bottom but it's a matter of catching it at the appropriate time. June will be a threshold month as the $10 billion bonds will start flowing into the banks," Penhall said.

Apart from these three funds, Gowealthy Capital is working on eight or nine funds to be launched over time. 

One of these funds will be structured around affordable housing, which Penhall defines as being less than Dh350 per square foot, depending on location.

http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/09/03/03/10290985.html


----------



## peacesells

tehsin123 said:


> It is believed the bribery allegations involve millions of dollars in consultancy payments by Sunland to Nakheel and a third party over a waterfront property purchase.
> 
> Lawyers and Australian authorities are particularly concerned by the probe.


Consultancy payments eh. I'm glad and sad that these things are finally surfacing. 

I remember when our company wanted to buy a plot on the Waterfront for development from Nakheel and upon visiting their offices, we were told that everything is sold out. However, we get a call a few hours later from an 'agent' who happens to be a friend of the sales manager at Nakheel. We go for another meeting, this time with the agent. In the meeting, they have accepted the prequalification documents (which apparently everyone was submitting all along since the manager's desk was littered with them) and told us to wait. The agent then laid it all on the table - you pay him 2% 'fee' and he guarantees that the sales manager or whoever is responsible will approve the prequalification documents and allow us to purchase. We backed out, and looking back, I'm glad we did. I bet a whole bunch of developers ended up paying the fee and got nothing. 

I am sure the wrong people will be in trouble for this.


----------



## 234sale

speculator said:


> Problem is not the banks. Problem is people have lost the appetite for debt.


I agree, 

In My Opinion

Look at Japan, highest amount of saving ever,, yet the conservatism increases increasing the problem. 
The worst senario is people living in own property that has been paid off, growing their own food, Wearing clothes till they fall apart, riding a bike everywhere, making their own entertainment and living with their means.

I like the idea of living within my means, but I probably become part of the problem.

The banks rely on people defaulting on debt within specific boundary's,, these boundards have now fallen apart due to the collapse of America and other countries exposure to it.


----------



## 234sale

peacesells said:


> Consultancy payments eh. I'm glad and sad that these things are finally surfacing.
> 
> I remember when our company wanted to buy a plot on the Waterfront for development from Nakheel and upon visiting their offices, we were told that everything is sold out. However, we get a call a few hours later from an 'agent' who happens to be a friend of the sales manager at Nakheel. We go for another meeting, this time with the agent. In the meeting, they have accepted the prequalification documents (which apparently everyone was submitting all along since the manager's desk was littered with them) and told us to wait. The agent then laid it all on the table - you pay him 2% 'fee' and he guarantees that the sales manager or whoever is responsible will approve the prequalification documents and allow us to purchase. We backed out, and looking back, I'm glad we did. I bet a whole bunch of developers ended up paying the fee and got nothing.
> 
> I am sure the wrong people will be in trouble for this.


Me too,, but when I applied a conservative study to develop a project on behalf of an developer, they had to sell on average of above 2500AED sqft. 

Massive speculation in Dubai Waterfront, I always spoke to Imre and said I couldn't ever see them building it. 

If I remember the majority of land was resold by Al-Burj Real Estate, wonder what ever happend to them.


----------



## mrobbie

speculator said:


> Problem is not the banks. Problem is people have lost the appetite for debt.


I think at the moment a palm apartment could go to 800psf and there would still be no buyers - partly due to uncertainty in the market and IMHO mostly due to a lack of avaialble finance... 

At the moment properties are trying to be lower than the next to become more attractive. You drop yours to 1.5M to be cheaper than another at 1.6M, then they see yours and drop to 1.45M... you in turn drop to 1.4M... 

its a downward spiral, and while there are very few, or no, buyers out there, it will just keep dropping. 

My theory is, that as once banks start to lend more freely again (> 70% loan amounts) then there will be a bottom to the spiral. At this point, I think there will be a small increase in prices (< 5%) as more people can suddenly snap up the properties at lower prices, and distress prices will not be so common - but after this, prices will level for a long time.


----------



## peacesells

234sale said:


> Me too,, but when I applied a conservative study to develop a project on behalf of an developer, they had to sell on average of above 2500AED sqft.
> 
> Massive speculation in Dubai Waterfront, I always spoke to Imre and said I couldn't ever see them building it.
> 
> If I remember the majority of land was resold by Al-Burj Real Estate, wonder what ever happend to them.


Yes, the 2500 psft sounds about right - we did similar feasibility research around this time last year and I think we got 2,300 or so.

Not sure what happened to Al Burj, I bet they are laughing at the idiots who bought at 600 psft and now can't offload these plots at OP.


----------



## peacesells

mrobbie said:


> My theory is, that as once banks start to lend more freely again (> 70% loan amounts) then there will be a bottom to the spiral. At this point, I think there will be a small increase in prices (< 5%) as more people can suddenly snap up the properties at lower prices, and distress prices will not be so common - but after this, prices will level for a long time.


You're right, except banks are very conservative these days and will only start lending decent amounts at decent rates when they a) themselves see the bottom or b) are allocated funds and forced by the government to use those funds accordingly. I can't understand how option A will happen, since the only way (with my limited understanding of this) it can happen is if somehow someone started buying property for cash outside of the banking system and it happened so much that the prices have actually started going up. Realistically, this someone can be a government-related entity with deep pockets and profit-in-the-long-term agenda. Or am I missing something?


----------



## cyborg81

*Owner of Ireland on The World 'takes own life'*

The owner of the island of Ireland on Dubai’s The World project has taken his own life amid rumours of financial worries as a result of the global economic crisis, it has been reported.

John O’Dolan, one of Ireland's leading building developers, was one of four business partners from his home country who brought the “Ireland in the Sun” development in March 2007 for AED142m.

The four had plans to build a resort with a collection of homes, apartments, restaurants and retail amidst beaches, boating and leisure opportunities on the 225,000 sqft island development owned by Nakheel.

Story continues below ↓ 
advertisement


O’Dolan, owner of Dolan International, was found dead after taking his own life at his home in Rusheen Bay in Galway on Friday, leaving behind a wife and three children, according to Irish daily The Irish Independent. 

There is speculation that his death was linked to the recession with commentators saying O’Dolan was depressed and despondent over his faltering finances - receivers were allegedly appointed to two of his business interests, the Kinlay House Hostel and property sales firm Polska Property.

However, there has been no confirmation on the level of financial distress O’Dolan, described as "so lively and so much fun to be around," was in, the newspaper added. 

On buying the island of Ireland O’Dolan said: "I admire the vision that is behind this project. The islands are truly spectacular, and we look forward to developing Ireland, which will provide the Irish homeowner with their very own place they can call home in the sun."

In true Irish tradition he presented Hamza Mustafa, general manager of The World, with a bowl of shamrock, customary for Irish business people and diplomats, on signing the property deal.

Other members of the Irish consortium are Noel Connellan, Ray Norton and Andrew Brett, who bought the island to coincide with St Patrick's Day. 

www.arabianbusiness.com/548501-owner-of-ireland-on-the-world-commits-suicide


----------



## Wannaberich

speculator said:


> Problem is not the banks. Problem is people have lost the appetite for debt.


I dont think most people see a mortgage as a debt.
If you have to pay rent then you may as well pay a mortgage instead and get something back for your money.Usually with a real debt you're getting nothing back.
If banks did start lending and at low rates then I do believe many buyers would come onto the market.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ unfortunate... st patrick wont be too happy hno:


----------



## skdubai

Wannaberich said:


> I dont think most people see a mortgage as a debt.
> If you have to pay rent then you may as well pay a mortgage instead and get something back for your money.Usually with a real debt you're getting nothing back.
> If banks did start lending and at low rates then I do believe many buyers would come onto the market.




hmm... i agree, but the prices still need to moderate a bit... especially the maintenance charges. If i am going to pay a mortgage of 6-7k every month and on top of that pay a charge of 20-30 psf for maintenance. I will gladly say no thank you and stick to renting!


----------



## mission

Property auction prices 

The Dubai Property Auction
The event will attract buyers from the UK and remote bidders from all over the world, particularly the UAE. We will also advertise the auction through an extensive marketing campaign which will include TV, Press and the Internet. All entries will appear in the official Auction Catalogue which will be sent to our database of active investors and agents.
With only days before we open the doors at the London Hilton Metropole Hotel you still have time to send us your property details. You can register your property online by clicking here.
Latest News
After analysing the responses from potential buyers we have decided to offer discounts for owners of properties that are Ready and below market price. Contact us for details.
Current listings for buyers
We receive new properties everyday, so if you’re hoping to pick up a bargain before the auction, check out our latest listings on-line, www.propertiesdubai.com. 
Alternatively see Deals of the Week or the Selection of Listings below
5 reasons to enter your property:
Easy & convenient
No price ceiling
Short intense advertising program
Buyers come prepared to buy
Accelerates the sales process
The Sellers Guide
The Sellers Guide will tell you everything you need to know about why auctions are now the best way to sell UAE property. 
Deals of the week
Location	Development	Type	Size	View	Approx. Selling Price
Dubai, Palm Jumeirah	Shoreline Apartment in Al Shahla	3 Bed	2184 sq ft	Road	AED 2.2m
Dubai, Palm Jebel Ali	Signature Villa 5 Bed	6,500 sq ft	Gulf	(-5%) premium
Dubai, Palm Jebel Ali	Waterhome	3 Bed	3,875 sq ft	Sea	AED 3m
Dubai, Arabian Ranches	Alvorada 3 Villa	4 bed	4,020 sq ft	Community	AED 4.25m
Dubai, International City	Greece	1 bed	725 sq ft	n/a	AED 480k
Ajman	Emirates City, Sapphire	2 bed	1,083 sq ft	Lake	AED 430k
Ras Al Khaimah	Al Hamra Village	3 bed Townhouse	2,120 sq ft	Sultana's Palalce	AED 1.6m
Dubai, Jumeirah Beach Residence	Shams 2	3 bed	1990 sq ft	Dubai Marina	AED 2,030
Dubai Marina	Lake Shore Towers	Studio	505 sq ft	Lake	AED 550k
Ras Al Khaimah	Mina Al Arab	Studio	395 sq ft	Lagoon	AED 260k
Selection of the Catalogue


----------



## iced

dbxdude said:


> Not what I was saying, the lender valued the property and as such confirmed the value. From my basic understanding of shiria finance, a lender cannot make money (profit) from money alone, when they lend they are in fact investing in the business or in this case asset and as such assume some stake holdership and risk. On the front of any amlak or tamweel contract it clearly states lease agreement NOT mortage. Obviously they will present a cheque to bounce but after that how will the courts rule. They r the owner till ur 25 year lease is complete, if u can't or don't want to pay surely all they can have is the house. Thus people in negative equity should b able to walk away from the property and clear the slate.
> 
> As for stealing money, there are plenty of investors of off plan property in govt backed companies who will never see there investment built and have no chance of getting their money back. . ,


The reality is if you cannot pay your debts then there is the possbility of going to jail. Overleverage and greed on both the banks and people taking out mortgages may result in such events. 

The reality is if you dont have a large income then there is no way you should be able to purchase property. For example, if my salary is 250,000k per annum then realistically i should borrow no more than 1,000,000 AED in total including short term debt etc. If however i borrow more (because until recently only 1 beds were available at such levels) then this increases the risk of default for whatever reason. This is what is basically happening in the West. Thus the banks are partly responsible for poor lending practices and people taking out such loans are taking on excessive risk. The consequences here can be more severe than in the WEST.

Over the last couple of years this is what has been happening. Culturally taking out huge amounts of debt is frowned upon this part of the world.

Also people come here on contracts which means that they should not be allowed to borrow since there is a chance that they may leave the country so higher risk. Banks should not lend. The problem for banks is that such a policy would result in lower profits so they are greedy. Likewise people on contracts should not borrow as there is a chance that they will go home and have to repay the loan. By taking out money there are increasing the risk to themselves that they may have to repay back the loan and the value of their property is less than the loan. So if they borrow then they also are being greedy.

To conclude i think the current system is fine. It should prevent people from taking on excessive credit by the fear of imprisonment.

I understand it is unfortunate if you lose your job but most people will try to pay off their debts in their own countries since it is their home and they arent guests. Here since we come here to work and know we can leave if things get rough, there is an incentive to take excessive risks.

The real reality is that most people should not be taking out mortgages since it is excessively risky.


----------



## docc

Al Furjan Owners Group:

http://groups.google.com/group/al-furjan-owners

Those who are interested may join. A group of investors are banding together to take on Nakheel regarding lack of progress and rescheduling payment plans. I'd advise all Al Furjan investors to join this group.

One of my friends visited the site and mentioned that there wasn't much progress; hence the reason for the investor group.


----------



## smussuw

Can someone tell me why I need to wait for 4 days for the "No liabilities" letter from the bank? 

I kept whinning about it until they said they will finish it in 2 days :nuts:


----------



## iced

234sale said:


> I agree,
> 
> In My Opinion
> 
> Look at Japan, highest amount of saving ever,, yet the conservatism increases increasing the problem.
> The worst senario is people living in own property that has been paid off, growing their own food, Wearing clothes till they fall apart, riding a bike everywhere, making their own entertainment and living with their means.
> 
> I like the idea of living within my means, but I probably become part of the problem.
> 
> The banks rely on people defaulting on debt within specific boundary's,, these boundards have now fallen apart due to the collapse of America and other countries exposure to it.


Debt is slavery of the free. Living within your means is a great thing. The last 30 years in the West of credit is problematic. Work hard and save. Lower your aspirations. Taking on debt is taking on greater risk. If you can do it and accept then great but if it goes wrong then accept the consequences.

US and UK govt are bailing out the banks who took on excessive risk which i hate. Let them fail. Why should conservative and prudent people pay the price for the risk takers.

We need to readjust our expectations. Huge returns in a boom time are possible with over leveraging but are a nightmare
in a downturn. The heady days of last few years are over for a few years since greed and fear will stay with mankind for the foreseeable future.


----------



## dubaifirst

Does anyone has any dealings with firstratefx currency broker? they are base in London and have offices in Dubai.


----------



## NajamD

iced said:


> Debt is slavery of the free. Living within your means is a great thing. The last 30 years in the West of credit is problematic. Work hard and save. Lower your aspirations. Taking on debt is taking on greater risk. If you can do it and accept then great but if it goes wrong then accept the consequences.
> 
> US and UK govt are bailing out the banks who took on excessive risk which i hate. Let them fail. Why should conservative and prudent people pay the price for the risk takers.
> 
> We need to readjust our expectations. Huge returns in a boom time are possible with over leveraging but are a nightmare
> in a downturn. The heady days of last few years are over for a few years since greed and fear will stay with mankind for the foreseeable future.


Capitalism is all about taking risks and making more money. The problem is that you are an "enterpreuner" if you succeed and "greedy" if it doesn't turn out right!!


----------



## tehsin123

smussuw said:


> Can someone tell me why I need to wait for 4 days for the "No liabilities" letter from the bank?
> 
> I kept whinning about it until they said they will finish it in 2 days :nuts:



You are much better off. I just spoke to DubaiFirst this morning, they said that their bank policy is to issue no-liability letter in 35 days, no earlier. Haha


----------



## desertmaster

iced said:


> The real reality is that most people should not be taking out mortgages since it is excessively risky.




very well said :cheers:


----------



## mission

Hi All

My tenant in Timeplace has handed in her notice to me. She paid 95k last year. 

She said she will stay for 58k a year excluding a/c charges. Is this a good deal considering dubai has been hit hard or is she just taking the mick out of me? 

Who thinks i could get a tenant between 80-95k. Imre you are usually good on this. 

Mine is a 1bedroom.


----------



## desertmaster

NajamD said:


> Capitalism is all about taking risks and making more money. The problem is that you are an "enterpreuner" if you succeed and "greedy" if it doesn't turn out right!!


CAPITALISM DOES NOT TELL YOU TO DEFAULT & OWE MONEY WHICH YOU CANNOT PAY ????

DOES IT ??? 

WHERE ???


----------



## NajamD

speculator said:


> Another person who doesnt undertsand debt. Debt is still debt. Doesnt matter if you get a home out of it or if you get a holiday or car out of it. Its all in the mind. I disagree people who have a mortgage consider it a burden just the same. The point you are trying to make is that it makes it slightly less painful just because you have a roof over your head. Remember you still dont own the house becuase the bank does but you do own the debt until its repaid. The house is really only security for the bank and not you.
> 
> Stop being pedantic and move on. You know what you mean and we what we do!


----------



## NajamD

speculator said:


> Another person who doesnt undertsand debt. Debt is still debt. Doesnt matter if you get a home out of it or if you get a holiday or car out of it. Its all in the mind. I disagree people who have a mortgage consider it a burden just the same. The point you are trying to make is that it makes it slightly less painful just because you have a roof over your head. Remember you still dont own the house becuase the bank does but you do own the debt until its repaid. The house is really only security for the bank and not you.
> 
> I actually consider any affordable mortgage as an investment. Believe me I've got plenty of it to be able to say this. As long as your rent covers the mortrgage repayments and or you can afford to keep your monthly payments, any mortgage will pay you back handsomely when you retire even if you take property cycles into account.:banana:


----------



## Wannaberich

speculator said:


> Another person who doesnt undertsand debt. Debt is still debt. Doesnt matter if you get a home out of it or if you get a holiday or car out of it. Its all in the mind. I disagree people who have a mortgage consider it a burden just the same. The point you are trying to make is that it makes it slightly less painful just because you have a roof over your head. Remember you still dont own the house becuase the bank does but you do own the debt until its repaid. The house is really only security for the bank and not you.
> 
> Regarding your Zakat question; yes you do still need to pay zakat. In that argument why would you not clear the debt with the savings......because you want to keep the savings to earn.....so you should be paying zakat. its like saying i dont want to pay zakat on my savings so ill take some debt instead. Doesnt quite stack up does it.hno:


You're actually quite pig headed arent u.
Again,I know that a mortgage is a debt.Difference is,I and many others dont see it as the same kind of debt as if it were a debt obtained from buying cars,holidays etc.You can get out of it if you are not in negative equity.You cant with the other kind of debt.
So once again,just to re-cap,yes a mortgage is a debt.
Now get over yourself.


----------



## dbxdude

desertmaster said:


> why would i give a cheque . cheques are given by desperate people and people who dont know the consequences in this country.
> 
> if you are ignorant of the law then you will be taken for a ride !!!!
> 
> BTW your topic was MORTGAGE and MORTGAGE in this country is same as it is in the united states of america, only that fools like you give cheques and personal guarentees.


Fools like me give a cheque? 
Its well known for any expat to get a mortage you must provide Amlak, Tamwheel etc a cheque. 

You contradict yourself, if mortages are the same here as in the US you can default or file for banckrupcy and the only consequence is you loose your house - clearly not the case here. I would say you are ignorant. 

Furthermore, i am not saying i am going to default (unless i choose to) but i was posing a question. Your assumptions make you an ass sir, and a fool.


----------



## dbxdude

Wannaberich said:


> You're actually quite pig headed arent u.
> Again,I know that a mortgage is a debt.Difference is,I and many others dont see it as the same kind of debt as if it were a debt obtained from buying cars,holidays etc.You can get out of it if you are not in negative equity.You cant with the other kind of debt.
> So once again,just to re-cap,yes a mortgage is a debt.
> Now get over yourself.


read rich dad poor dad for a good explation how a mortage is sometimes worse then a debt... people always want a bigger house so bigger mortage so never aquire assets only liabilities that trap them in the rat race for ever.... read it, you never know, maybe it can remove the wannabe from the beginning of you name. .. .


----------



## desertmaster

dbxdude said:


> Fools like me give a cheque?
> Its well known for any expat to get a mortage you must provide Amlak, Tamwheel etc a cheque.
> 
> You contradict yourself, if mortages are the same here as in the US you can default or file for banckrupcy and the only consequence is you loose your house - clearly not the case here. I would say you are ignorant.
> 
> Furthermore, i am not saying i am going to default (unless i choose to) but i was posing a question. Your assumptions make you an ass sir, and a fool.


you can choose to be ignorant !!!!

and when you pose a question learn to listen ....and i am not assuming its a fact


----------



## dbxdude

yes and dont worry desert master, any minute now la hoya bay is going to be built, all is well and safe now RAK govt are on the case..... :nuts::nuts::nuts:

ignorance must be bliss for you


----------



## dbxdude

Or you can choose to not be an ignorant smart arse and acknolwedge there is a PROBLEM in the UAE with the current laws and unless they are reviewed you will be here by yourself. So perhaps as half a million people are exiting that point should be considered and discussed......


----------



## desertmaster

dbxdude said:


> yes and dont worry desert master, any minute now la hoya bay is going to be built, all is well and safe now RAK govt are on the case..... :nuts::nuts::nuts:
> 
> ignorance must be bliss for you


its my own money nothing to do with your debt is it ????


----------



## desertmaster

dbxdude said:


> Or you can choose to not be an ignorant smart arse and acknolwedge there is a PROBLEM in the UAE with the current laws and unless they are reviewed you will be here by yourself. So perhaps as half a million people are exiting that point should be considered and discussed......


i told you to listen there are problems with fools like you. 

you think everyone here is going around giving cheques or personal guarentees !!!!

if you are weak then the bank will take your balls also as collateral !!!!


----------



## Wannaberich

dbxdude said:


> read rich dad poor dad for a good explation how a mortage is sometimes worse then a debt... people always want a bigger house so bigger mortage so never aquire assets only liabilities that trap them in the rat race for ever.... read it, you never know, maybe it can remove the wannabe from the beginning of you name. .. .


Unless you go live on the moon then everyones stuck in the 'rat race'.
Try coming back with some useful advice for a change.


----------



## dbxdude

desertmaster said:


> i told you to listen there are problems with fools like you.
> 
> you think everyone here is going around giving cheques or personal guarentees !!!!
> 
> if you are weak then the bank will take your balls also as collateral !!!!


ah...... why am i even replying to you.... here goes, HALF A MILLION PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE UAE, THE ECONOMY WILL BE CRIPPLED, THE REPUTATION IN TATTERS, THERE ARE BIGGER ISSUES THEN SOME PATHETIC ARGUMENT AS TO WEATHER YOU HAVE A MORTAGE OR NOT. Gees. The point is if people who do not come from this country feel threatened that they can be sent to jail for loosing their jobs and not being able to pay their mortage then they will leave AS THEY ARE NOW DOING, PEOPLE WHO HAVENT EVEN LOST THEIR JOBS. A positive step would be to review this law. 

I WILL NEVER HAVE A PROBLEM PAYING A MORGAGE IN THE UAE but as half the population leaves my other investments and businesses will be affected AS WILL THE WHOLE COUNTRIES. 

Thus it is in the interest of THIS COUNTRY to address the issue quickly. 

GOT IT? IDIOT.


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

Well put Dude. Now hush Wannabe.


----------



## dbxdude

Wannaberich said:


> Unless you go live on the moon then everyones stuck in the 'rat race'.
> Try coming back with some useful advice for a change.


not true, you can through business and building up assets, i know plenty of people who have. I have. Depends on how much you need? the point of the book series is cash flow and recurring passive income (the holy grail).

Its a good series of books. www.richdad.com is a good place to start, try it, you might find it useful, it could even change your life. Then again you could just reply with some cleaver comment. Matters not to me. Im on here trying to create a discusion regarding an imminent problem that a country i like is facing - namely the mass exedous of its expat population.


----------



## desertmaster

dbxdude said:


> ah...... why am i even replying to you.... here goes, HALF A MILLION PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE UAE, THE ECONOMY WILL BE CRIPPLED, THE REPUTATION IN TATTERS, THERE ARE BIGGER ISSUES THEN SOME PATHETIC ARGUMENT AS TO WEATHER YOU HAVE A MORTAGE OR NOT. Gees. The point is if people who do not come from this country feel threatened that they can be sent to jail for loosing their jobs and not being able to pay their mortage then they will leave AS THEY ARE NOW DOING, PEOPLE WHO HAVENT EVEN LOST THEIR JOBS. A positive step would be to review this law.
> 
> I WILL NEVER HAVE A PROBLEM PAYING A MORGAGE IN THE UAE but as half the population leaves my other investments and businesses will be affected AS WILL THE WHOLE COUNTRIES.
> 
> Thus it is in the interest of THIS COUNTRY to address the issue quickly.
> 
> GOT IT? IDIOT.


YOU CAME TO KNOW ABOUT ALL THIS TODAY ???? 
I KNOW IT FROM THE LAST 25 YEARS STAYING IN DUBAI
DID YOU NOT DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE MAKING INVESTMENTS IN THIS COUNTRY ....ARE YOU IGNORANT OR A FOOL 

YOU WANT TO CHANGE THINGS .....KEEP SCREAMING


----------



## Wannaberich

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> Well put Dude. Now hush Wannabe.


Jesus,where did Mr 70 posts come from.Show a little respect to those who have contributed more to this site than you have dude.


----------



## dbxdude

Everyone knew about it, but now people are concerned, people who havent even lost their jobs are leaving just because they fear the risks and hear the rumours. I am not leaving desert master. Soon it will just be me and you here, and you will still say your right never mind.


----------



## Wannaberich

dbxdude said:


> i on here trying to create a discusion regarding an imminent problem that a country i like is facing - namely the mass exedous of its expat population.


Even though more people moved to Dubai in January then left ?
Why?


----------



## dbxdude

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> Well put Dude. Now hush Wannabe.


70 decent posts better then 1000+ of waffel


----------



## dbxdude

Wannaberich said:


> Even though more people moved to Dubai in January then left ?
> Why?


LOL AND THERE IS NO RESSESION, NO PROBLEM, PROPERTY PRICES ARE GOING TO GO UP AFTER SUMMER AND ONLY 11 CARS HAVE BEEN LEFT AT THE AIRPORT.... 

There is nothing to see, please move along now.... you have left the rat race cause you do live on the moon! yes more people are moving to dubai then leaving.... :banana::banana::banana:

Just the other day i saw elvis here...


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> Once you reach the stage where you don't need a salary in order to live comfortably, Kiyosaki says you've achieved 'financial freedom' and got out of the rat race.



You are still in the rat race even if you are financially free.You are still exposed to many problems like crime,pollution,traffic congestion,rising costs,discrimination for minorities etc,family breakdown etc.Its all part of life.
The financial aspect is just one area.


----------



## mission

Imre said:


> the problem is many studios there for 55K (DEC Towers,Marina Diamonds ,Manchester Tower etc..) and no takers , cheapest 1 bed around 80-85K.
> 
> Honestly, you will be lucky if you get 80K now, one of my friend got a 1 bed of MD2 for 85K/year, 12 cheques, fully furnished.


So am i looking at 70k then?


----------



## HappyLarry

Wannaberich said:


> You are still in the rat race even if you are financially free.You are still exposed to many problems like crime,pollution,traffic congestion,rising costs,discrimination for minorities etc,family breakdown etc.Its all part of life.
> The financial aspect is just one area.


Don't take it the wrong way but you are being a bit 'that time of the month'. 
By the way, Robert Kiyasaki's book 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' is appropriate for the points that have been argued.
:cheers:


----------



## Naz UK

The only time in your life, ever, that Robert Kiyasaki's book is relevant to you is if you have played the arse off Monopoly and now want to buy a much more expensive, less popular board game. That is it.


----------



## speculator

Wannaberich said:


> Jesus,where did Mr 70 posts come from.Show a little respect to those who have contributed more to this site than you have dude.


AND this comes from a chap who thinks that mortgage is not a debt. So you must be a very clever chappy as you have contributed so much and made so many posts. Gosh the guys with the highest number of posts must have infinite knowledge. How shallow and immature you are. Get over it.:lol:


----------



## speculator

NajamD said:


> As long as your rent covers the mortrgage repayments and or you can afford to keep your monthly payments, any mortgage will pay you back handsomely when you retire even if you take property cycles into account.:banana:


Thanks for the knowledge. always learning we are:weird:


----------



## Wannaberich

HappyLarry said:


> Don't take it the wrong way but you are being a bit 'that time of the month'.
> By the way, Robert Kiyasaki's book 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' is appropriate for the points that have been argued.
> :cheers:


No not really bro.Just expressing an opinion thats all.
Not so arrogant as to think I'm always right like one or two of the muppets on here.


----------



## Wannaberich

speculator said:


> AND this comes from a chap who thinks that mortgage is not a debt. So you must be a very clever chappy as you have contributed so much and made so many posts. Gosh the guys with the highest number of posts must have infinite knowledge. How shallow and immature you are. Get over it.:lol:


OMG what a ----- !
For the last time Ive already said,yes A MORTGAGE IS A DEBT JUST A DIFFERENT KIND OF DEBT !!!!!

To make you happy you can be right ,you're always right,you're da man.
Now can we move on and change the subject ? !!!

(shit didnt realise u only got 132 posts)


----------



## Wannaberich

----


----------



## speculator

Wannaberich said:


> OMG what a ----- !
> For the last time Ive already said,yes A MORTGAGE IS A DEBT JUST A DIFFERENT KIND OF DEBT !!!!!
> 
> To make you happy you can be right ,you're always right,you're da man.
> Now can we move on and change the subject ? !!!
> 
> (shit didnt realise u only got 132 posts)


Yea now we can move on. Glad I drummed it in to you. Oh & congrats on the 1868 posts. Keep the good work up


----------



## Imre

mission said:


> So am i looking at 70k then?


try 85-90K first , maybe 2-3 cheques, 
you can put your advert on the www.expatriates.com and www.dubizzle.com


----------



## Imre

*UAE real estate industry primed for strong comeback - executives *


Abu Dhabi: Senior real estate and construction executives from across the Gulf believe that once the UAE real estate industry gets past short-term adjustments, it will adopt effective policies that will help it emerge stronger than it was before. 

Executives attending Abu Dhabi Economic Forum said there would be pain experienced, with many over-leveraged buyers unable to make their payments. They added that the lack of available mortgage financing in the short term meant that this would prevent new buyers from coming onto the market. 

They said they expected the real estate sector to go through healthy changes in the medium term. According to them, the current crisis will force real estate companies to adopt more effective policies that will help them get out of the situation as stronger entities. 


Gurjit Singh, Sorouh chief property officer, said demand, especially in Abu Dhabi, was still exceeding supply. 

"But the problem is the credit availability, the high interest rates and the strict mortgage criteria."

Dr Hani Shamma, the chief executive of Bloom, said that the problem afflicting the real estate industry in the UAE was that 90 per cent of the sector was speculative and only 10 per cent was end user market. 

He spoke of "a hype of millions of people coming into the UAE for living and investment," which he believes contributed to the crisis the industry is going through.

Dr Shamma called on the government to investment more in infrastructure, health and education, which would create demand for real estate.

He also urged government to permit long-term residency visa for expatriates who own properties.

Abdulla Al Shakra, chairman of Al Hanoo Group, Saudi Arabia, said the real estate industry faced challenges when it was transformed from a service industry to a speculative industry. 

They all agreed that the UAE economy had proven in the past to be able to successfully face several financial crises. They said the secret was the young and dynamic economy with a very high degree of flexibility.

The sector's key drivers include a growing expatriate population, ample liquidity, and a friendly regulatory environ*ment. 

Moreover, being a regional hub for invest*ments has managed to attract international companies to the UAE to set up offices.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10291393.html


----------



## dbxdude

Naz UK said:


> The only time in your life, ever, that Robert Kiyasaki's book is relevant to you is if you have played the arse off Monopoly and now want to buy a much more expensive, less popular board game. That is it.


OK, while i agree that 50-60% of the content of his book is about promotion of this game and of himself, there is some real nuggets of gold; 

His least well known book Prophecy - its looking spot on - he talks about the collapse of Stockmarket and Financial Stystems as we know it - written in 05/06

His book cashflow - is good for anyone wanting to get out of debt and create passive income 

His book invest like the rich has a section on Business Systems which ic nothing short of genuis 

His recent preditions on gold are looking outright clairvoient at the moment. 

Crappy board game aside, he is worth taking serious - if nothnig else then its by far the best way of eductating yourself financially from a book series.


----------



## dbxdude

desertmaster said:


> you stay here and pay your mortgages on time .....I have a place to go back to my country. best of luck


Your country called, they want you back to take up a ministerial post, 2 actually, minister of finance and social affairs. Haiti right?


----------



## dbxdude

Wannaberich said:


> ^^Sure,it could be bullshit,of course, but then who knows.
> It seems people will believe every bit of negative news that comes from the media,but anything positive has to be bullshit.
> In that case,anyone who does have anything postive to say or has anything positive to post from the media,please dont.


Wanabe, the problem with positive news is that sometimes it covers up real problems that need to be discussed and resolved which cannot be, this was a major problem with communisim - since the state was never wrong, there were no problems and thus nothing to improve... 

Most banks and major businesses do not consider stats from imigration dept as accurate and thus dont pay them much attention. 

Instead they look towards Schools for an indication of what the population is doing. So far Gems has 150,000 transfer requests pending for term end. Lets say 50,000 are internal transfers - ie from one school in the UAE to another School. That leaves 100,000 External transfers - so lets say each family has 2 children, thats 50,000 families, or 100,000 potenital adult workers.

And thats just Gems school and thats just April. 

Construction is not the only industry hit, a anyone who works in DIFC (please backup if you do) can testify that the place is atleast 70% more empty - in terms of people walking round then it was pre summer 08. 

Estimates vary, but i would be surprised if people here didnt know people who have left or leaving. Best guesses 200,000 have left with 200,000 more leaving in the near term. 

So lets see, out of a population of 1.4m we are down to 1m and declinning. Trends are hard to reverse. 

What impact will this have on Business and Property prices do you think ? 
Given the extra supply comming on line shortly? 

What price psf will the marina, golden mile drop to? 

Confidence is at all time lows, people are punch drunk, those choosing to stay may well changfe their mind if they start hearing about people being put in jail due to mortage default. And if you have defaulted - in this enviroment - do you stay and clear your debt or do you say - forget it, this place is finnished? 

This issue can be removed with 1 decree. 

People will come back to Dubai, Dubai will recover from this - no problem at all. But it will take time and smart thiking and policy. Otherwise the southsea bubble will have had nothing on this place. Right now, the deniel etc is unhelpful and foolish. This is IMHO and i could be very wrong - perhaps there is a glut of businesses looking to reolcate/expand here and a queue of people looking to imigrate..... like i said i saw Elvis here the other day...


----------



## Spurs

methodinmadness said:


> One must acknowledge that Aristocrat Star Investments are in this for the business prospect of making a profit. They will be delighted that building costs have gone down..it just means they will make more profit. As for them reducing the prices for properties already sold off-plan.. forget it!
> 
> Some developers are doing this, Deyaar for instance
> 
> Whether or not the new proposed RERA rules apply a) the developer must have completed at least 20% of the construction before they can sell off-plan & b) that payments must be linked to construction milestones… remains to be seen in this case.
> 
> The only course of action one can take is to not pay anymore money until there is tangible evidence that the project is going ahead and in a timely manner.
> 
> Whatever you decide, don’t fall into the trap of handing out post-dated cheques. Firstly you will never see the cheques again (they will be used as guarantee’s and collateral) and secondly, should one bounce, the signatory on the cheque risks imprisonment until cheque and probably the whole debt is fully paid. There is no legal way you can stop a cheque being cashed either.
> 
> Agree, you are mad to put down PDC in this country, some westerners dont realise how strickt they are on the mentioned consequences
> 
> Apparently the investor would need to register the off-plan purchase with RERA before RERA will take any action on the investor’s behalf so more expense I’m afraid!


This is lease hold property isn't it??? In which case we will not see a title deed and so do we need to register this with RERA / Lands department.


----------



## legal eagle

*beautifully put*



dbxdude said:


> Wanabe, the problem with positive news is that sometimes it covers up real problems that need to be discussed and resolved which cannot be, this was a major problem with communisim - since the state was never wrong, there were no problems and thus nothing to improve...
> 
> Most banks and major businesses do not consider stats from imigration dept as accurate and thus dont pay them much attention.
> 
> Instead they look towards Schools for an indication of what the population is doing. So far Gems has 150,000 transfer requests pending for term end. Lets say 50,000 are internal transfers - ie from one school in the UAE to another School. That leaves 100,000 External transfers - so lets say each family has 2 children, thats 50,000 families, or 100,000 potenital adult workers.
> 
> And thats just Gems school and thats just April.
> 
> Construction is not the only industry hit, a anyone who works in DIFC (please backup if you do) can testify that the place is atleast 70% more empty - in terms of people walking round then it was pre summer 08.
> 
> Estimates vary, but i would be surprised if people here didnt know people who have left or leaving. Best guesses 200,000 have left with 200,000 more leaving in the near term.
> 
> So lets see, out of a population of 1.4m we are down to 1m and declinning. Trends are hard to reverse.
> 
> What impact will this have on Business and Property prices do you think ?
> Given the extra supply comming on line shortly?
> 
> What price psf will the marina, golden mile drop to?
> 
> Confidence is at all time lows, people are punch drunk, those choosing to stay may well changfe their mind if they start hearing about people being put in jail due to mortage default. And if you have defaulted - in this enviroment - do you stay and clear your debt or do you say - forget it, this place is finnished?
> 
> This issue can be removed with 1 decree.
> 
> ...


Transparency is key, short term pain- long term benefits.

You can;t have both hno: covering up and denial is another form of lying- If this is acceptable at the top of the tree, every branch will set up there own in the same way.

Eject corruption, teach transparency and tolerance


----------



## desertmaster

dbxdude said:


> Wanabe, the problem with positive news is that sometimes it covers up real problems that need to be discussed and resolved which cannot be, this was a major problem with communisim - since the state was never wrong, there were no problems and thus nothing to improve...
> 
> Most banks and major businesses do not consider stats from imigration dept as accurate and thus dont pay them much attention.
> 
> Instead they look towards Schools for an indication of what the population is doing. So far Gems has 150,000 transfer requests pending for term end. Lets say 50,000 are internal transfers - ie from one school in the UAE to another School. That leaves 100,000 External transfers - so lets say each family has 2 children, thats 50,000 families, or 100,000 potenital adult workers.
> 
> And thats just Gems school and thats just April.
> 
> Construction is not the only industry hit, a anyone who works in DIFC (please backup if you do) can testify that the place is atleast 70% more empty - in terms of people walking round then it was pre summer 08.
> 
> Estimates vary, but i would be surprised if people here didnt know people who have left or leaving. Best guesses 200,000 have left with 200,000 more leaving in the near term.
> 
> So lets see, out of a population of 1.4m we are down to 1m and declinning. Trends are hard to reverse.
> 
> What impact will this have on Business and Property prices do you think ?
> Given the extra supply comming on line shortly?
> 
> What price psf will the marina, golden mile drop to?
> 
> Confidence is at all time lows, people are punch drunk, those choosing to stay may well changfe their mind if they start hearing about people being put in jail due to mortage default. And if you have defaulted - in this enviroment - do you stay and clear your debt or do you say - forget it, this place is finnished?
> 
> This issue can be removed with 1 decree.
> 
> People will come back to Dubai, Dubai will recover from this - no problem at all. But it will take time and smart thiking and policy. Otherwise the southsea bubble will have had nothing on this place. Right now, the deniel etc is unhelpful and foolish. This is IMHO and i could be very wrong - perhaps there is a glut of businesses looking to reolcate/expand here and a queue of people looking to imigrate..... like i said i saw Elvis here the other day...


what a load of shit !!!! you want a decree so that your investments remain secure.... the law out here is very straight forward. Don't take loans that you cannot pay. PERIOD. Anyone wants relief then go to sharia court. they are very fair .


----------



## desertmaster

dbxdude said:


> Your country called, they want you back to take up a ministerial post, 2 actually, minister of finance and social affairs. Haiti right?


Wrong....


----------



## gerald.d

Damn. Probably too late for me - I handed over a deposit cheque yesterday :lol:

*Dubai landlords to pay broker fees instead of tenants*

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/548635-dubai-landlords-to-pay-broker-fees-instead-of-tenants



> Tenants in Dubai are no longer expected to pay the commission fee charged by brokers, with landlords having to pay up instead, it was reported on Wednesday.
> 
> Agents have said they are now either charging the entire commission sum, normally five percent, to the landlord, or splitting their fee between the landlord and tenant, according to UAE daily Emirates Business.
> 
> The action comes amid a rental downturn in the UAE as a result of the global economic crisis.
> 
> Broker firms predict that rents will tumble a further 10 to 15 percent in next three months, as supply outstrips demand, putting the tenant in the position of power.
> 
> "All broker firms have not yet started splitting the brokerage commission between the landlord and the tenant, but are considering this option as the rental market has turned in favour of the tenants, especially as leasing is always initiated by the landlord," said Iseeb Rehman, managing director, Sherwoods Real Estate.
> 
> "If the landlords are willing to pay up, many agents will surely waive the commission from the tenants. Either one party has to pay or both split the commission. Either way, landlords should get involved,” added Rose Marie Kilzi, leasing director at Great Properties.
> 
> Such a change would bring the UAE inline with international practice, said Walter Hart, managing director of The Agency, a property consultancy.
> 
> "The mandate to rent a property comes from the landlord to the agent, and the landlord has employed the agent to do a job for him and therefore should pay for this service when a tenant is found.
> 
> “Dubai has been different in this regard due to the previous short supply of residential accommodation and commercial space,” Hart added.
> 
> However, commission would not be waived completely as the paperwork involved in property rental had increased, Rehman added.
> 
> "We will not totally waive the commission payable by the tenant as the workload and paperwork of agents has increased," he said.


----------



## googly

jagmp said:


> in context of uk you are right.historically prices have risen with inbetween short period of corrections.be it a demand factor or others increases are always above inflation. .


So that means that investing in UK is a safe bet, as opposed to investing in UAE, right? 

For a foreigner, one of the main advantages of investing in UAE is that there is no capital gains tax and no income tax on rental income. I have heard that that is ALSO the case in UK (for non-residents). Is this true? If it is, then why invest in UAE when you have the same advantages in UK AND your investment is safer?


----------



## dbxdude

googly said:


> So that means that investing in UK is a safe bet, as opposed to investing in UAE, right?
> 
> For a foreigner, one of the main advantages of investing in UAE is that there is no capital gains tax and no income tax on rental income. I have heard that that is ALSO the case in UK (for non-residents). Is this true? If it is, then why invest in UAE when you have the same advantages in UK AND your investment is safer?


A growing number of people now belive UK real-estate may unwind further, figures of 30-40% are being touted. Perhaps Dubai just fell fastest and now other property bubbles will begin to catch up. 

There is time to wait. Things are not getting better anytime soon. 

British expats are reluctant to invest in UK since the Govt are constantly threatening global taxation for its citizens....


----------



## dbxdude

That last comment will set the cat amongst the pigeons


----------



## Wannaberich

The UK has a good few months left of falling house prices before things level out.
That seems to be the general opinion.Maybe another 10/15% drop.
Same with Dubai.
At that point it will be a great time to buy.

Otherwise,if in 6 months u guys had say,£500.000/2.6m aed to invest,tell me somewhere else better to put your money?


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## dbxdude

in a 6% interest paying bank account with NBAD.... keeping it liquid for the opportunities that present itself in 2010/11. 

Talk of recovery in 2010 is propaganda for the masses. 

Keep a eye on inflation and protection from it. Alot of people talking about coming inflation.


----------



## IISinbadII

dlnash said:


> Actually people were buying because Emaar was selling...The whole game was started by Emaar
> 1) Launch
> 2) increase price during launch
> 3) Spread rumours of sold out
> 4) Kick-start the secondary market (premiums)
> 5) Second Launch at a higher price
> 6) increase price during launch
> 7) Spread rumours of sold out


It takes bath hands to clap!
Emaar was raising prices because investors were willing to pay. Both the developers and investors should be blamed. 

I remember the day in 2006 when I walked into Emaar office and 1 br was for 1M....and I also remember the day when in 2008 they had nothing to offer under 3M or 4M. And not too long ago people used to wait all night and they had to call police to control the crowd willing to buy at these inflated prices. 

It was crazy!


----------



## 234sale

I look at my local market in Brighton..
Amex is the biggest employer.... 10% gone worldwide in oct 08.
How many more jobs to go...
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...2DE3C-5513-475D-B8F5-838F3CD757FA}&dist=msr_8

Then I look to surrounding towns like Horsham..
RSPCA an Sun Alliance
Again big layoffs...

UK martket for the last 5 years was based on self cert, 100% ltv with 5x or even 7x muliples of income.

Self Cert is gone, Multiples are still 5, ltv 80%

A
In the boom,
My salary was £100,000 imaginary self cert 
Borrow 7x
Buy a house with 10% deposit

B
Today 
Real salary £50,000
Borrow 5x
Must have 30% deposit

The people who signed up to A are going to find it difficult to meet the conditions of B

I know many As,, nearly became one..

Might become a B, but waiting at least 1 more year. 
Those jobless numbers are going to get worses.

One of my family members works for social services,, the situation is getting worse.


----------



## jagmp

googly said:


> So that means that investing in UK is a safe bet, as opposed to investing in UAE, right?





googly said:


> For a foreigner, one of the main advantages of investing in UAE is that there is no capital gains tax and no income tax on rental income. I have heard that that is ALSO the case in UK (for non-residents). Is this true? If it is, then why invest in UAE when you have the same advantages in UK AND your investment is safer?


1 how did you get that?

you have missed the important point.investment anywhere is worthwhile only at a particular point when assets class are undervalued in terms of real buying power and yield justifies it.i always said entry point is very important. you can not enter any market blindly any time anywhere.

thanks for your unsolicited advice to invest in UK.i have been doing that for past 15 years. oh ...am i obliged to tell you that?hno: i will do that whenever i will see an opportunity whether in UK or UAE.

don't go by hearsay. do your own research.for your kind information although there are no taxes in UAE, UK resident have to pay taxes on worldwide assets.be it income tax capital gain tax or inharitance tax. 

i invested in Dubai in early 2005.i am still sitting on huge capital appreciation and earning decent rental income.but that is not the point.

everyone takes their financial decesions according to their personal circumstances, understanding and risk approach.:cheers:


----------



## 234sale

dbxdude said:


> British expats are reluctant to invest in UK since the Govt are constantly threatening global taxation for its citizens....


If you take a mortgage, with a company like RBS, or similar,, 
A blip appears on Indland Rev TAX radar will appear,, 

I am 5 years out of the UK, I will never become a resident again.
I will not, nor my children be paying for the massive debt now undertaken by Gordo.

The next plan for Crash Gordo is to Tax vacant uk property.. Great Idea but it will increase the supply of vacant property onto the market.


----------



## jagmp

British expats are reluctant to invest in UK since the Govt are constantly threatening global taxation for its citizens....

global taxation has always been there. please do your research.


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## Wannaberich

dbxdude said:


> in a 6% interest paying bank account with NBAD.... keeping it liquid for the opportunities that present itself in 2010/11.
> 
> Talk of recovery in 2010 is propaganda for the masses.
> 
> Keep a eye on inflation and protection from it. Alot of people talking about coming inflation.


Ok start again.
Assuming property prices have reached rock bottom and the first signs of recovery are showing then where would you put that money?


----------



## HappyLarry

IISinbadII said:


> It takes bath hands to clap!


Is it because of the mucky water? 

Joking aside, I knew this circus guy who it seemed had rubber arms. He proved to me that he could clap with one hand. It was weard.:cheers:


----------



## HappyLarry

Wannaberich said:


> Ok start again.
> Assuming property prices have reached rock bottom and the first signs of recovery are showing then where would you put that money?


Wait until there are signs of a move off the bottom and then join the herd?
 
In the mean time, dip in and out of stocks, if you have the nerve.


----------



## luluprovence

-----------------


----------



## jagmp

oh... Lulu dear

you are here. i was looking for you somewhere else.:lol:


----------



## worried1

*Prediction from SPYK*



spyk said:


> Keep your powder dry and wait it out for the next 6 months. You'll have a much clearer picture then.
> 
> If you want to ask for my prediction? Stay out of real estate and stocks. The global economy will not stabilise at least until well into 2010 and it will not properly recover for a couple of years. Property and stocks will not go up for quite some time and the downside risk of further falls is quite high.


So you think that at this time, it is not even worth nibbling ?

Thanks


----------



## luluprovence

-------------


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## luluprovence

-------------


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## dlnash

IISinbadII said:


> It takes bath hands to clap!
> Emaar was raising prices because investors were willing to pay. Both the developers and investors should be blamed.
> 
> I remember the day in 2006 when I walked into Emaar office and 1 br was for 1M....and I also remember the day when in 2008 they had nothing to offer under 3M or 4M. And not too long ago people used to wait all night and they had to call police to control the crowd willing to buy at these inflated prices.
> 
> It was crazy!


People were willing to buy at the crazy prices, only because there was a very active secondary market, and it was very easy to sell after paying only a couple of installments. It had to end, and this has got nothing to do with the financial crisis. Tell me which bank would have financed a 4 million dirham 1 bedroom apt? or infact in some cases upto 6 million for a 1 bedroom.
Why did they want only 5% deposits at these prices...it was a game!.
But now they're stuck.
No-doubt I'm sure almost 90% of the ppl who bought during the boom will default..and Emaar will be left with empty units.
You know service charges are a considerable source of income for developers, so it makes a lot of sense for Emaar to somehow keep these investors tied in by re-negotiating the sky-high prices.
I'm sure they have'nt sold a single unit during the past 3 months.
Even if they forfeit deposits, who's going to buy?
The best thing for them is to retain the people who have bought and that can only be done by re-negotiating the prices.
Even then they will still not be selling at a loss, as constructions costs have fallen by atleast 50% compared to the boom period. plus they will be able to get service charges on all of the occupied units.


----------



## Imre

*Emaar may Shelve Projects Worth more than Dh90b*

Rocel Felix 

6 March 2009 
DUBAI — Dubai-based Emaar Properties may shelve projects worth more than Dh90 billion as worried investors step up pressure on the Middle East’s biggest property developer to halt projects in the face of collapsing prices.

The Emaar Investor Group, made up of approximately 200 individual buyers, last week delivered a petition to the developer requesting the cancellation or postponement of the Warsan Estate, Asmaran and Maysan projects. The group is asking Emaar to refund any money paid to date, to transfer any money invested to other Emaar units, or to provide a credit note for an  equal amount.

A spokesperson for Emaar, which is building the world’s tallest tower in Dubai, confirmed on Thursday that the company had received the investors’ request and said it “(would) consider their proposals seriously.”

The spokesperson added that “Emaar is committed to upholding the interests of all our customers and stakeholders, especially given the current  economic conditions.”

Investors are becoming increasingly nervous as Dubai’s six-year property bonanza comes to an end. In recent months, financing has evaporated, sales have slumped, developers and brokers are cutting jobs and prices in some areas have fallen sharply.

“The Warsan Estate, Asmaran and Maysan projects are no longer viable,” the The Emaar Investor Group said in its petition, according to Zawya Dow Jones. “There is no demand as many investors have already left the market leaving an oversupply, there is no money available to investors to continue payments, and there is no value in these projects as they are priced far above the market value of similar and better located projects in Dubai.” 

As the property market softens, developers such as Emaar are being forced to review project requirements. Last month, the company said it was putting future real estate projects on hold to stem the oversupply of units in Dubai. The company said it would concentrate on completing all projects it has already started to build but added that new launches would depend on supply and demand.

Emaar’s Warsan Estate, Asmaran and Maysan projects were launched in May and June 2008 at the height of Dubai’s real estate boom. At the time, units sold for more than Dh2,000 per square foot, but since then property prices in some areas of Dubai have slumped by  more than half. 

The Dh90 billion Asmaran project, a joint venture between Emaar and government-owned developer Tatweer’s Bawadi unit, is located in the emirate’s $110 billion Dubailand development.The 70 million square foot development was planned to house 55,000 residents and include a family-orientated theme park. The three block Maysan Towers project was launched within the Asmaran development, while the 3.4 million square foot Warsan Estate was designed for more than 500 luxury villas. Townhouses there sold for an average of Dh5.5 million at launch.

Amid the deteriorating conditions in Dubai’s real estate sector, disgruntled investors and buyers are becoming more vocal about their concerns. 

Many fear that despite making down payments, they see the projects are not being completed.

Amid flagging demand in the market, others worry that projects pushed through to competion will only depress property values further. 

Last month, the Dubai Property Investors Group, made up of more than 300 local and international investors, lawyers and real estate developers, petitioned Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Authority to act quickly to avoid a collapse of the sector due to fears about the financial strength of some developers and their ability to deliver more than $1 trillion worth of projects.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/darticl.../March/business_March242.xml&section=business


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## jagmp

luluprovence said:


> :lol:
> jaggress - i am going to leave - i am looking for a very scary outfit to give a 'tough impression' on Monday - having my ears pierced - punk pink hairstyle - pink shoes, pink cadillac and pink panther for shock effect!!!
> 
> Lu


Lulu Lulu 

you cracked me up.:lol: please don't come in my dreams with that outfit.:hahaha: you promised me you will be at your best when you see me.:angel1:


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## Wannaberich

If Emarr are cancelling these projects,and with many other projects cancelled,on hold,maybe already started now on hold etc,when things pick up then surely this will create a situation of chronic undersupply again?
If people start streaming into Dubai again when the economy recovers,yet wary Developers wait longer before they commence with projects,then this could be another scenario to create undersupply?


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## jagmp

just 1 example- a real one.though there are more.

1996-2 br for £44000. 20% DP.rent £6000.. over 13% yield.

2009-value minimum £200000. debt paid off by rent in 10 years.

over 400% return.

in reality ROI 190000 in 13 years that is 1900%. :nuts:unbelievable for most people.

well i am not suggesting this is possible in all market condition. especially at present. but opportunities do come at the door step.

in Dubai 2005. DM price/sft were around 700dhs.JLT around 650/sft 

again entry point is important anywhere.identify the opportunities.but mostly people are too scared to enter the market when they are supressed.


----------



## Jeroen45

Wannaberich said:


> Ok start again.
> Assuming property prices have reached rock bottom and the first signs of recovery are showing then where would you put that money?


In gold of course


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> If Emarr are cancelling these projects,and with many other projects cancelled,on hold,maybe already started now on hold etc,when things pick up then surely this will create a situation of chronic undersupply again?
> If people start streaming into Dubai again when the economy recovers,yet wary Developers wait longer before they commence with projects,then this could be another scenario to create undersupply?


Absolutely spot on. The only thing wrong with your post is use of the word "if". With many developers and contractors bankrupt, and the big 3 unable to get contractors who will ever trust them to pay their bills again, I would say an undersupply scenario is absolutely inevitable at some point in the not-too-distant future.


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> and the big 3 unable to get contractors who will ever trust them to pay their bills again, I would say an QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> Especally Nakheel.Good point.
> 
> Dare I say it,all these ingredients which are unique to Dubai could even possibly spark another boom.


----------



## dbxdude

jagmp said:


> British expats are reluctant to invest in UK since the Govt are constantly threatening global taxation for its citizens....
> 
> global taxation has always been there. please do your research.


Britian does not tax its non resident citizens, only citizens staying in excess of 90days on average over 3 years are taxable. 

However, recently Gordo has mentioned taxing non-residence as a possibility. Obviously its hard to get out of it if you own real-estate - if you dont, you simply forfit your british passport if you can qualify for another one from a country that doesnt have global taxation - ps Jagmp, no need to be bitchy


----------



## jeetha

Off plans in Dubai hno: dead business. Only fools will put money in OFF PLANS NOW.


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## dbxdude

Wannaberich said:


> Ok start again.
> Assuming property prices have reached rock bottom and the first signs of recovery are showing then where would you put that money?


A little bit in gold for now as a disaster plan, ie inflation explodes and currencies fail. 

Id look at picking up distressed luxury items for myself, like nice cars and a boat if i could get them at a massive discount nearly new. 

In terms of investments:
Probably studios (as people downsize and the smallest you can go is studios) in marina that are complete, that way even if dubais economy doesnt come riupping back its tourism might - so short term is possible. Below 500k studios would be interesting to me. 

I also see some incredibly cheap villas now, 1,4ish for JV, thats a 2600 sft villa with a NOC from nakheel to build an additional 2000sft and 8000sft plot. 

hmmm, what else, probably id keep my eye open for a decrent small business that is going well but now suffering cash flow issues due to late or non payment but that would in ordinary times do well. But thats cause i like business more then other investments - its harder but u have some control.

I think the Prefect Storm is now passing, or atleast the eye of the storm, and another perfect storm is brewing in the next couple years, this storm could be a good one with property at all times low and a flood of cheap finance becoming available - that would be the time to start taking positions. 

But for now id wait a bit. 

On stocks, i wouldnt have the courage for that but i guess thats the obvious one in a few months.years.


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## Wannaberich

dbxdude said:


> In terms of investments:
> Probably studios (as people downsize and the smallest you can go is studios) in marina that are complete, that way even if dubais economy doesnt come riupping back its tourism might - so short term is possible. Below 500k studios would be interesting to me.
> 
> I also see some incredibly cheap villas now, 1,4ish for JV, thats a 2600 sft villa with a NOC from nakheel to build an additional 2000sft and 8000sft plot.
> 
> .


Without looking at old posts,wer'nt you one of the ones against investing in property?


----------



## jagmp

dbxdude said:


> Britian does not tax its non resident citizens, only citizens staying in excess of 90days on average over 3 years are taxable.
> 
> However, recently Gordo has mentioned taxing non-residence as a possibility. Obviously its hard to get out of it if you own real-estate - if you dont, you simply forfit your british passport if you can qualify for another one from a country that doesnt have global taxation - ps Jagmp, no need to be bitchy


from your language i can see where you come from.

non-resident are exempted only from income tax not from capital gain or inheritance tax.what you are talking about is non domicile. there is a big difference between non domicile and non residence. non domicile can be exempted from all the taxes.but they are already being charged £30000 PA for keeping that status.

i am not here to educate you.if you can't be civil in your language i will ignor any of your post directed to me.


----------



## IISinbadII

dlnash said:


> People were willing to buy at the crazy prices, only because there was a very active secondary market, and it was very easy to sell after paying only a couple of installments. It had to end, and this has got nothing to do with the financial crisis. Tell me which bank would have financed a 4 million dirham 1 bedroom apt? or infact in some cases upto 6 million for a 1 bedroom.
> Why did they want only 5% deposits at these prices...it was a game!.
> But now they're stuck.
> No-doubt I'm sure almost 90% of the ppl who bought during the boom will default..and Emaar will be left with empty units.
> You know service charges are a considerable source of income for developers, so it makes a lot of sense for Emaar to somehow keep these investors tied in by re-negotiating the sky-high prices.
> I'm sure they have'nt sold a single unit during the past 3 months.
> Even if they forfeit deposits, who's going to buy?
> The best thing for them is to retain the people who have bought and that can only be done by re-negotiating the prices.
> Even then they will still not be selling at a loss, as constructions costs have fallen by atleast 50% compared to the boom period. plus they will be able to get service charges on all of the occupied units.


I doubt Emaar would re-negotiate on the price. Maybe some relaxation of the payment plan, but not the price. hno:


----------



## IISinbadII

Richard Head said:


> Absolutely spot on. The only thing wrong with your post is use of the word "if". With many developers and contractors bankrupt, and the big 3 unable to get contractors who will ever trust them to pay their bills again, I would say an undersupply scenario is absolutely inevitable at some point in the not-too-distant future.


Under-supply.......yeah, that would be nice for a change.


----------



## dbxdude

jagmp said:


> from your language i can see where you come from.
> 
> non-resident are exempted only from income tax not from capital gain or inheritance tax.what you are talking about is non domicile. there is a big difference between non domicile and non residence. non domicile can be exempted from all the taxes.but they are already being charged £30000 PA for keeping that status.
> 
> i am not here to educate you.if you can't be civil in your language i will ignor any of your post directed to me.


If you dont live in the uk for more then 90 days in the tax year, then you dont pay taxes on anything. Not on income, not on capital gains, not on anything if you dont have or make your money in the UK. 

The 30k charge is for high net worths who want to bring their money back into the uk and dont want to have to tell the tax man where its from. 

Happy for you to ignore my posts, frankly your tone was rude first.


----------



## dbxdude

Wannaberich said:


> Without looking at old posts,wer'nt you one of the ones against investing in property?


No i was against the idea it was always better to buy then rent... and that i thought that a mortgage was as real as debt got... but we argued that one to death...


----------



## shaffar

nad2446 said:


> WHAT IS HAPPENING !!!!!!!
> 
> WHERE HAS EVERYONE GONE??????
> 
> HAVE I MISSED THE BOAT - HAS EVERYONE GOT THERE MONEYBACK FROM AL AREIFI APART FROM ME!!!!!!
> 
> PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT IS THE CURRENT SITUATION???? WHAT IS HAPPENING TO MY APARTMENT AND MY MONEY ?????



They are apparently not responding to any mail phone calls, anyone got news? 

& has any one taken the cost +%55 offered ?


----------



## luluprovence

----------------------


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## luluprovence

--------------------


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## luluprovence

-----------


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## spyk

Wannaberich said:


> I wasnt saying the price of property will always rise,but proof shows that
> in the UK for example,it has always risen.Give or take the current situation where property is worth less than 12 months ago.However as trends have shown here,they will probably reach those levels again and surpass them at sometime in the future.
> 
> Also the beauty with buying/investing in a property,is that the ordinary working man/woman understands this way of making money.Stocks/Shares for alot of people is something they dont understand aswell or want to get into.
> 
> Can anyone out there tell me buying a property in Dubai or in the UK when prices reach the bottom is a bad investment?I think the majority would say not.
> The economy will pick up and prices will rise.
> 
> Trouble with Dubai is what happens next time there is a recession.
> If ex-pats are still not able to get visas at that point and have to leave,the property prices will surely nosedive far faster than most other countries like the've done now.
> Dubai needs to prevent this happening again.


First of all, even when you hit bottom, which will be sometime next year if things dont go too bad, the recovery, meaning capital appreciation wont happen for many years. The world economy, the financial system, the banks, they have all been terribly damaged, and, will take years to recovery to full potential. A large part of the population has been badly hurt, and, they wont be back to potential for many many years. Plus people have been so badly traumatized, they will stay out for years due to the psychological affects of the current downturn.

Secondly, think about what you are recommending. That ordinary people buy property as an investment. Now, lets take the example of Dubai. Lets say that when we start recovering, within a 3 to 4 year period, 20% of Dubai's population buys a property as an "investment" to "flip", this would artificially boost demand, artificial because real demand is only that of people buying to live. Now this will dramatically raise prices, this will fuel further "investment" (speculation), and, then, soon, the greater fools to buy at ever higher prices will not be found and the pyramid scheme which all bubbles are, will collapse. This will badly damage a large part of the population which will lose a lot of wealth, the financial sector which is the backbone of the economy will be badly hurt because of its exposure to mortgages. So you will have two important elements of the economy, consumption and the financial sector badly hurt, this will put the economy into another large recession.

So what you are recommending is bad for the economy and everyone. If you could do it alone, or if small a group of people could do it without involving the rest of the population, then it is fine, but, this never happens in an open economy, everyone gets involved, and, then everyone gets hurt. This is bad for the system and should not be encouraged.

Its like Credit Default Swaps, all the banks thought they were so smart and insured against risk and losses, but, what they didnt realise was, in trying to remove individual risk, the amount of risk they were building into the system, and, in the end, the entire system blew up, along with that, so did the individual banks.


----------



## luluprovence

-----------


----------



## jagmp

dbxdude said:


> If you dont live in the uk for more then 90 days in the tax year, then you dont pay taxes on anything. Not on income, not on capital gains, not on anything if you dont have or make your money in the UK.
> 
> The 30k charge is for high net worths who want to bring their money back into the uk and dont want to have to tell the tax man where its from.
> 
> Happy for you to ignore my posts, frankly your tone was rude first.


non residents do have to pay capital gain and inheritance tax.anybody who is not in the country for more than 90 days in a tax year is non resident not non domicile. person who come to work in UK is also resident if he stays more than 90 days.he has to also pay taxes on all his income in UK but not outside UK because he is non domicile in UK.

£30000 fee is for non domicile british citizen.a british citizen who is non domicile doesn't have to give up his passport or let go his citizenship.yet he has to show intentions and proof and enough ties to settel down in the country of his domicile.a person who becomes british citizen through naturalisation remains non domicile for 17 years.after that he automatically becomes british domicile unless he elects to remain non domicile and shows enough proof and intentions to settel down in country of his domicile at some point in time.a person can also elect to choose domicile of his father by age of 21. 

any high net individual can not just pay £30000 and escape all the taxes. they need to become non domicile in UK. for the person who is born and brought up in UK and his parents are also born and brought up in UK it is extreamly difficult to change his domicile.even if he leave the country severe all the ties with UK even gives up his citizenship he still remain british domicile for many years (custom and revenue dept. will chase him and claim tax on his worldwide assets) in the same way somebody who becomes british citizen through naturalisation remains non domicile in UK until he has lived in UK for 17years. citizenship and domicile don't need to be the same.

non domicile and non british can be a british resident.for example somebody who comes to UK for work is resident in UK and liable for taxes for all the assets in UK but not outside.

a non resident but still a british citizen is liable for all the taxes except income tax for the particular tax year he is not in UK for more than 90days. for example somebody who is working out side UK.

a non domicile is a person who is british citizen and british resident in UK but shown his intentions ties and enough proof to leave this country at some point in time to live in the country of his domicle.

there are many people who are britsh citizen as well as resident but have escaped paying taxes on assets outside UK by way of remaining non domicile.this has become possible because either they are born outside UK or they have elected their parents domicile or they have shown strong ties with a particular place by way of family home frequent visit social circle and other business interests.

i think this should be suffice. if complex to understand leave it here.


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## dbxdude

Jagmp, The below illustrates my original point - namely that buying a UK property could at a latter stage put you liable for tax that normally you would not be liable for. Read the bold of this article and EDUCATE YOURSELF.

One quote from the article that covers my original point (the one you picked up on, b4 telling me SO RUDELY to educate myself) is “Anyone who owns property in the UK could be considered domiciled there,” Mr. McGahan explained. “You should be very careful. You could have a £100,000 house in the UK and £2 billion elsewhere and you would be domiciled in the UK.”

Anyway here is the rest of the article. I await your pedantic reply, however, maybe i will get lucky and you will ignore my posts as promised. 

:cheers:

The good life at risk? <http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081227/PERSONALFINANCE/993315938/1041/NATIONAL>

Foreign workers in the UAE seldom have to worry about taxes because they seldom have to pay any. That could change if their home countries begin to view expatriates as a useful source of revenue, and the chances of that may be greater than many think.
*
The ability of expats to continue enjoying their tax-free good life may be imperilled by recent developments in two spheres: economics and politics.*

Leaders in the recession-plagued West, notably Barack Obama, the US president-elect, and the British prime minister, Gordon Brown, are planning massive government spending programmes to try to ignite a recovery. The tough part is paying for them; they understand that they risk pushing their economies further into the muck if they raise taxes – with one possible exception.

Citizens living abroad tend to make more money than the average taxpayer, so there is a rich seam to mine. That is particularly true for workers in Middle-Eastern countries, which generally impose little or no income tax.

There could be much to gain and, politically, little to lose. The public is unlikely to take to the streets with torches and pitchforks if their peripatetic and well-to-do countrymen are asked to pay more. As for upsetting the expats themselves, well, they often don’t bother to vote, so who cares what they think?

Not that they have had a lot to gripe about. Nationals of most countries on Earth escape the clutches of their home revenue authority after they take up residence elsewhere.

The United States is not most countries, however. Citizens living abroad must continue to file returns and pay tax on their worldwide income, although the first US$82,400 (Dh302,655) in foreign employment or business earnings is excluded, plus a bit more, sometimes, for housing expenses.

With one hand in their wallet already, are Americans more at risk of a tax hike than other expats? Could they be asked to pay more?

“It would be a fairly easy to thing to do,” said Patrick Stevens, a tax partner in London for Ernst & Young. “All they would have to do is reduce or wipe out the excluded amount.”

He is not betting on it, but something that produced the same result occurred just two years ago. While the earned-income exclusion was raised from $80,000, tinkering in the formula for the housing allowance led to sharp increases in tax liability for some overseas Americans.

J.D. Foster, a researcher in tax and entitlement policy at the Heritage Foundation, a Washington think tank, does not expect any similar move – yet. His somewhat paradoxical reasoning is that the US treasury needs too much revenue.

“I don’t think it’s all that probable simply because deficits will be so large for the next couple of years and the amounts raised would be so small that it’s not worth it,” he explained. He warned, though, that it may become worth it later.

“There’s a legitimate concern for two or three years from now,” Mr. Foster said, “as Obama will have to demonstrate to the markets that after these unprecedented deficits he’s concerned about fiscal discipline.”

Mr Brown may have to show the same concern, but Mr Stevens contends that the lack of a British tradition of taxing expats may limit the ability to start now.

“In the U.K., it would be a trickier thing to do technically,” he advised. “Don’t get me wrong, it can be done. But I would be totally amazed if they tried to do it.”

Peter McGahan, managing director of Worldwide Financial Planning in Wadebridge, in southern England, is able to keep his astonishment in check. Taxing British nationals working abroad “would be so simple for them to do,” he said. Not only would it be legal, in his view. It would probably be popular.

The British “think it’s brilliant to tax the rich,” Mr. McGahan remarked. “Anyone living abroad is a free and easy target. Most people would chuckle that they got them.”
*
He pointed out that there are plenty of ways that expats could be got. Earned income could be taxed, of course, as well as all sorts of investment income that now escapes tax when the recipient is living out of the country.*
*
Certain investment products, such as insurance bonds, which are essentially mutual funds structured as life insurance policies, can be set up in offshore jurisdictions by non-resident British nationals and accumulate income and capital gains tax free. It would be easy for the authorities to amend the rules to make the earnings taxable if the money is brought back into the country, Mr. McGahan said.*

If you are earning a living overseas, there are many factors to mull over when devising a strategy for coping with the prospect of higher taxes. How to structure your investments and, to the extent that it is possible, pay and benefit packages make up part of it.

You also need to take into account where you live and, perhaps more important, where the country whose passport you hold thinks you live; they may not be the same. Another key decision is whether to wait until any rule changes take effect or are proposed, or else act now in a pre-emptive strike.

Whatever may happen to tax rates and regulations, financial planners encourage expats to keep all of their investments outside of their home country. This should eliminate – as things stand now – any tax liability for foreigners in the Middle East, except Americans, who will continue to be taxed wherever their investments are.

*One asset that expats, regardless of citizenship, might do well to dispose of when they leave home is their home itself. Revenue authorities may not seem like the clingy type, but they may not want to see taxpayers leave their jurisdiction and may consider them still to be living there if they own real estate.*

The United States has clear-cut residency rules, so this should matter less for Americans. They are treated as living abroad if they have a residency visa from a foreign country or if they spend at least 330 days outside the United States in any calendar year.

If only it were that simple. Benjamin Tobias, who runs the Florida firm Tobias Financial Advisors, points out that residency as far as individual states are concerned can persist even if the federal government has bid a citizen farewell. A solution is to establish residency in a state with no income tax, such as Florida or Nevada, and avoid high-tax states like California.

“If you know you’re going overseas for any length of time, it’s not difficult to move to a state and get residency,” Mr. Tobias said. “Spend some time there. Get an address, a driver’s license, register to vote.”

*British nationals are encouraged to sell their homes because keeping them could leave them liable for tax, dead or alive. There is more subjectivity in determining UK residency, with home ownership a key factor.*

Even if they leave and never come back and are deemed non-resident, Mr. McGahan warned, homeowners could still be considered domiciled in Britain, a legal term that encompasses more than just where a person hangs his hat. The estates of British expats who die abroad are assessed inheritance tax, at 40 per cent, on worldwide assets if they are considered domiciled in Britain, but for non-doms, the bill is due only on assets situated in Britain.

When it comes to determining domicile, there’s no place like home.

*“Anyone who owns property in the UK could be considered domiciled there,” Mr. McGahan explained. “You should be very careful. You could have a £100,000 house in the UK and £2 billion elsewhere and you would be domiciled in the UK.”*

This opens the possibility of a couple of sneaky ways to increase tax revenue from expats, he said. The government could make even non-doms eligible for inheritance tax or raise tax rates on capital gains generated when non-residents sell their homes. Before any changes in tax law, expats should “break the link completely,” moving all wealth offshore, in his view.

Christopher Shaw, a wealth planner at SG Hambros, a British private bank, offers similar advice, encouraging expats to close bank accounts back home and even sever ties such as club memberships. If home ownership is maintained, he suggests, there should be an open-ended, arm’s-length rental agreement.

When it comes to employment earnings, the advice is to keep arrangements as simple and clear as possible. Expats can get tripped up if an employer in their home country sends them abroad and keeps paying them, or else if they are sent not to work per se but to set up a branch office or for some other purpose that may not be considered conventional employment.

As Mr. Stevens, at Ernst & Young, succinctly put it, “If you live in the UAE, just make jolly sure the source of income is in the UAE.”

He cautioned against jumping the gun on possible changes in taxation by setting up private pensions or other complicated financial devices, which can have drawbacks, some of which are hard to foresee. Maintain vigilance, he counselled, but no more than that.

“You would not change what you’re doing, but if your home country looked as if it were going to do something, be on watch and take avoiding action if need be,” Mr. Stevens said. “If new law comes in, sit down and decide your tactics.”

Until that happens, the best course for foreign workers in the Middle East remains to ensure that residency in your home country has been given up and investments shifted overseas. Then, he said, “you take the money and you bank it.”


----------



## Imre

IISinbadII said:


> I doubt Emaar would re-negotiate on the price. Maybe some relaxation of the payment plan, but not the price. hno:


are you joking?

some latest prices from the Emaar , would you buy anything from them with any payment plan?

DM Mall Hotel 1 Bedroom	805	3,693,888
29 Blvd 1 Bedroom	1,058	4,264,888
South Ridge 1 Bedroom	1,078	3,914,888
The Residences 3 Bedrooms	3,000	20,039,888
Burj Views 2 Bedrooms	1,996	5,059,888
Lofts 1 Bedroom	942	3,198,888
Burj Park V 1 Bedroom	921	5,070,888
Standpoint 1 Bedroom	860	3,322,888
Burj Place 1 Bedroom	998	7,132,888
BD Mall Hotel Studio	717	4,769,888
Burj Dubai Lake Hotel 1 Bedroom	880	5,604,888
Tall Tower 1 Bedroom	986	7,917,888
Tall Tower 2 Bedrooms	2,053	20,882,888
Tall Tower 4 Bedrooms	4,279	56,356,888

good luck for them, they have thousands of apartments for sale!

so they dont need to re-negotiate on the price ?

:lol:

projects which are ON HOLD , they are not selling but they have price


----------



## dbxdude

The rapid reaction of management is stunning, im always amazed how they adapt and change to different conditions.... maybe they will just keep stock for a couple of years rather then write it down...


----------



## dbxdude

No one does Tourism quite like dubai... short term lets in the mid term will come good


http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090305/BUSINESS/698468772/1041/NATIONAL

Tourism officials hope to dispel negative perceptions of Dubai in a campaign that will show world travel’s opinion makers the emirate as it really is.

“Keep Discovering Dubai” will bring more than 2,000 travel industry professionals and media to Dubai from now until May.

The campaign would help change “current negative perceptions” of the emirate, a source at Dubai’s Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing said.

The source was referring to illegal dumping of sewage on Dubai beaches and reports of an outbreak of legionnaire’s disease at a hotel, which were later disproved.

At stake is the emirate’s largest single revenue generator, worth Dh57 billion every year – 19 per cent of its economy.

Hoteliers and tour operators welcomed the move by Dubai’s Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DTCM), in partnership with Emirates Airline.

“Bringing in people to see the emirate first-hand is going to make a huge difference,” said Kulwant Singh, the managing director of Lama Tours, one of the largest operators in Dubai.


----------



## Imre

dbxdude said:


> The rapid reaction of management is stunning, im always amazed how they adapt and change to different conditions.... maybe they will just keep stock for a couple of years rather then write it down...


this is the main point, if they write it down , stock price would be 0.5 dhs


----------



## Wannaberich

spyk said:


> First of all, even when you hit bottom, which will be sometime next year if things dont go too bad, the recovery, meaning capital appreciation wont happen for many years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, lets take the example of Dubai. Lets say that when we start recovering, within a 3 to 4 year period, 20% of Dubai's population buys a property as an "investment" to "flip", this would artificially boost demand, artificial because real demand is only that of people buying to live. Now this will dramatically raise prices, this will fuel further "investment" (speculation), and, then, soon, the greater fools to buy at ever higher prices will not be found and the pyramid scheme which all bubbles are, will collapse. This will badly damage a large part of the population which will lose a lot of wealth, the financial sector which is the backbone of the economy will be badly hurt because of its exposure to mortgages. So you will have two important elements of the economy, consumption and the financial sector badly hurt, this will put the economy into another large recession.
> 
> .


Firstly by saying capital appreciation wont happen for 'many years',I assume you must mean at least 10 years?If so then thats rubbish.

Secondly,the flipping and speculating culture that caused so much damage to Dubai I doubt will return.
After prices have hit rock bottom,and then start to recover,I can see prices rising maybe 10/15% only per year which is quite healthy.


----------



## jagmp

i am surprised mods are quiet and allowing repeated use foul language directed towards a forum member for no reasons.

don't they have any obligation to preserve modesty and dencency of the forum?


----------



## spyk

Wannaberich said:


> Firstly by saying capital appreciation wont happen for 'many years',I assume you must mean at least 10 years?If so then thats rubbish.
> 
> Secondly,the flipping and speculating culture that caused so much damage to Dubai I doubt will return.
> After prices have hit rock bottom,and then start to recover,I can see prices rising maybe 10/15% only per year which is quite healthy.


No I mean no capital appreciation wont happen for around 4 or 5 years. And, you wont go back to previous peak level prices for even 10 years.

When will they recover? Thats key. If they recover after 4 or 5 years, then, thats not a great "investment"

10% or 15% appreciation is NOT normal. Prices should generally keep track of other trends such as population, rental income, inflation etc. So unless inflation and population and things like that are growing at 10% to 15%, then 10 to 15% is NOT normal.

Speculation damages not just Dubai, but, every economy everywhere it happens. Bubbles are extremely dangerous to the economy. People should realize that. Look around the world, look at the stock bubble of 1929, the dotcom bubble, the housing bubble now. Its so damaging.

Capitalism is not just speculation. It is much more, it means innovation and creativity and private businesses. Not just pure speculation.


----------



## dbxdude

speculators just get a bad rep..... without speculation half this stuff wouldnt ever have been built or even thought off, when the dust settles Dubai will still have a nice infrastructure and where else in the world where young people from the GCC want to go to work... it will attract people in time once things get back on track, i think we will see last summer prices within 5 years, based on HK and Sing - where essentially the same thing happened. That however assumes the global financial systems don't collapse and we haven't reverted to barter. And b4 wannaberich says i was never that optimistic b4, i just said i wouldnt buy now in a declining market, when its up 10 -15 % then once that trend is established i will buy to let.


----------



## Philippa C

'Run on UK' sees foreign investors pull $1 trillion out of the City" 

Banking crisis undermines Britain's reputation as a safe place to hold funds

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-pull-1-trillion-out-of-the-city-1639413.html

Interesting! Maybe there's hope for the DIFC yet.


----------



## spyk

dbxdude said:


> speculators just get a bad rep..... without speculation half this stuff wouldnt ever have been built or even thought off, when the dust settles Dubai will still have a nice infrastructure and where else in the world where young people from the GCC want to go to work... it will attract people in time once things get back on track, i think we will see last summer prices within 5 years, based on HK and Sing - where essentially the same thing happened. That however assumes the global financial systems don't collapse and we haven't reverted to barter. And b4 wannaberich says i was never that optimistic b4, i just said i wouldnt buy now in a declining market, when its up 10 -15 % then once that trend is established i will buy to let.


Well half the stuff doesnt NEED to be built. Do you really think there is GENIUNE demand (by people who will buy to live) for like 5 palms and all these worlds and universes? no.


----------



## High Times

****WARNING LONG INTELLIGENT POST***THIS IS AN EDUCATIONAL INTERLUDE****

*DUBAI REAL ESTATE WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE.*

Following on from parts 1 & 2. here.
Dubai cracks part 1
Dubai cracks part 2


It is interesting to sit back and read some of the more intelligent posts lately, (admittedly few and far between unfortunately). However the main thrust of the thread in terms of *“where the Dubai real estate market is now?”* has shifted from *“blatant denial”* into *“frustrated acceptance”. *

In order to ascertain where the market will go from here I would like to propose that the real estate market in Dubai has performed thus far with many similarities to a financial market instrument such as Stock, Future, Option, Index etc.

In my view this has been actively encouraged by government mouthpieces such as Alineah et al, with particular reference to this web portal;
http://www.alineah.com/market_analysis.asp Emaar, Nakheel and Co have also been equally culpable in their actions.

I have previously commented back in the boom days that it was extremely unhealthy, or even irresponsible to display property in this manor as it only fuels speculative behaviour. When I saw an actual ticker bar reflecting current price trends on property, this was a *CODE RED* for me. So if we can agree that Dubai real estate has behaved like a stock index over the past 5 years we can begin to understand how this relates to *DOW THEORY*. 

If we understand the basics of Dow Theory (economist among us will have studied this to gain their degrees). We can begin to understand where we go from here. For those who don’t know Dow Theory here is a breakdown. It’s a bit long winded but well worth understanding in relation to what’s happening in Dubai now. Essentially the second tenet of Dow theory summarises how a market instrument behaves when used by masses to produce investment returns. I have added timeframes and prices to the phases as an *illustration only !*, and are not therefore precise but intended to help relate the theory to Dubai.

*DOW THEORY TENET 2*

Tenet 2 is split into 3 phases.

*1- The Accumulation Phase*
*2- Public Participation Phase*
*3- The Excess Phase*

*1-The Accumulation Phase. **Dubai 2002 – 2004 – Prices circa AED400psf – AED600psf*
The first stage of a bull market is referred to as the accumulation phase, which is the start of the upward trend. This is also considered the point at *which informed investors* start to enter the market. The accumulation phase typically comes at the end of a downtrend, when everything is seemingly at its worst (not relevant as Dubai is a new market). But this is also the time when the price of the market is at its most attractive level as it is in it’s infancy. However, the accumulation phase can be the most difficult one to spot because it comes at the end of a downward move, which could be nothing more than a secondary move in a primary downward trend - instead of being the start of a new uptrend. This phase will also be characterized by persistent market pessimism, with many investors thinking things will only get worse. (if looking at an established market)

*2-Public Participation Phase. Dubai 2004 – 2007 – Prices circa AED600psf – AED1500psf*
When informed investors entered the market during the accumulation phase, they did so with the assumption that great prospects for gains lay ahead. As this starts to materialize, the new primary trend moves into what is known as the public participation phase. During this phase, negative sentiment or doubt starts to dissipate as business conditions - marked by earnings growth and strong economic data - improve. As the good news starts to permeate the market, more and more investors move in, sending prices higher. This phase tends not only to be the longest lasting, but also the one with the largest price movement. 

*3-The Excess Phase. Dubai 2007 -2008 – Prices circa AED1500psf – AED2500psf*
As the market has made a strong move higher on the improved business conditions and buying by market participants to move starts to age, we begin to move into the excess phase. The last stage in the upward trend, the excess phase, is the one in which the smart money starts to scale back its positions, selling them off to those now entering the market. At this point, the market is marked by, *irrational exuberance*. The perception is that everything is running great and that only good things lie ahead. This is also usually the time when the last of the buyers start to enter the market - after large gains have been achieved. Like lambs to the slaughter, the late entrants hope that recent returns will continue. *Unfortunately for them, they are buying near the top*. During this phase, a lot of attention should be placed on signs of weakness in the trend, such as strengthening downward moves. Also, if the upward moves start to show weakness, it could be another sign that the trend may be near the start of a primary downtrend.

*I POSTED DUBAI WAS HERE IN JULY 2008.*

*Primary Downward Trend (Bear Market).*

*The Distribution Phase. Dubai Sept 2008 – Present.*
The first phase in a bear market is known as the distribution phase, the period in which informed buyers sell (distribute) their positions. This is the opposite of the accumulation phase during a bull market in that the informed buyers are now selling into an overbought market instead of buying in an oversold market. In this phase, overall sentiment continues to be optimistic, with expectations of higher market levels. It is also the phase in which there is continued buying by the last of the investors in the market, especially those who missed the big move but are hoping for a similar one in the near future. As was the case in the accumulation phase, the distribution phase can be difficult to spot in its early stages. The reason for this is that it may be disguised as a secondary downward trend within the primary upward trend.

*Public Participation Phase. Dubai – THIS IS WHERE WE ARE NOW.*
This phase is similar to the public participation phase found in a primary upward trend in that it lasts the longest and will represent the largest part of the move - in this case downward. During this phase it is clear that the business conditions in the market are getting worse and the sentiment is becoming more negative as time goes on. The market continues to discount the worsening conditions as selling increases and buying dries up.

*The Panic Phase. Dubai – We may be entering this phase now or soon. It will last most of this year I suspect.*
The last phase of the primary downward market tends to be filled with market panic and can lead to very large sell-offs in a very short period of time. In the panic phase, the market is wrought up with negative sentiment, including weak outlooks on companies, the economy and the overall market. During this phase you will see many investors selling off their stakes in panic. Usually these participants are the ones that just entered the market during the excess phase of the previous run-up in asset price.

*But just when things start to look their worst is when the accumulation phase of a primary upward trend will begin and the cycle repeats itself.*

*This is how the theory relates to the FTSE 100.*





















So there you have a condensed version of Dows second tenet. Although the original theory was produced to analyse stock and index movements, you don’t need a masters degree to see the similarities it shares with whets happened or is happening in Dubai.

*SO WHERE ARE WE HEADING NEXT ?*

In my view what will happen next will be one of two scenarios and will depend on how real estate in Dubai will perform (or be allowed to perform by government), in the next phase of the cities social economic development.

*SCENARIO 1*- 
IF Dubai real estate continues to perform as a stock or index or similar instrument then we can expect to see prices stabilise soon and could well climb back to August 2008 prices within 12-24 months.

*SCENARIO 2* - 
IF Dubai real estate ceases to act and be traded as stock type instruments and reverts to traditional real estate fundamentals then it could be 5 – 10 years before we see prices in the region of AED2000psf – AED3000psf again (barring certain ultra top end exceptions).

I think it is a dangerous position to simply assume that after a crash or a correction there will be another boom. This has traditionally been the case when discussing more liquid assets such as stocks, options, futures etc, but real estate was never supposed to be like that and it only happened because of one word. *SECURITIZATION.* 

That nasty word that has brought the world to it’s knees. I don’t think that we will see the levels of liquidity that are needed to inflate another bubble in real estate until the pain of this mess is forgotten and that is likely to be 10 years or more in my view.

My analysis brings me to believe that Dubai, (once the current crash is over) will learn it’s lesson and behave more like a traditional real estate market did before someone invented securitized lending instruments.

This means more modest capital appreciation levels and more modest rental returns. This rental return correction (which is well underway) will move more end users to become purchasers rather than tennants.

*Dubai can then begin to transform into a city of residents and communities, rather than a city of speculators and developers.*


----------



## magestom

Richard Head said:


> Absolutely spot on. The only thing wrong with your post is use of the word "if". With many developers and contractors bankrupt, and the big 3 unable to get contractors who will ever trust them to pay their bills again, I would say an undersupply scenario is absolutely inevitable at some point in the not-too-distant future.


But it will also be harder for people to get loans to buy property. Which will slow down the rate of recovery. So possibly, the supply wont be too low and the chance of a bubble will be lower next time.


----------



## Cayman

Brilliant Post HT


----------



## jagmp

excellent, High Times.

inspired me to go for economics degree all over again.:cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

A Very informative one High Times " Centrum of Real Estate "


----------



## IISinbadII

As before, again an EXCELLENT post *High Times*.

kay: kay:


----------



## Allright

*Feedback on JLT and Al Reem portfolio needed*

Dear forum members,

I have been reading the forums for the past 10 days straight now and I would very much appreciate an assessment of my current portfolio. I am freaking out a bit so I just want feedback on where I stand in these crazy times. I know that "no one knows" but a candid assessment would be most appreciated. The properties:

1 Office in JLT in Mazaya Business Avenue bought @ 915 AED/Sqft - no mortgage. Remaining 30% out of which 20% percent is on completion.

Hoping to rent when comlete in mid 2010. How difficult will it be to rent and what am i looking at in terms of rent range?

1 Office in JLT in Mazaya Business Avenues @ 1500 AED/Sqft with 50% on final completion. No mortgage.

Same question as above.

1 one bedroom apt in V3 Tower in JLT @ 1,200 AED/Sqft. 50% paid in cash while the remaining bank mortgage over 25 years. 

Handover should be this April-May. Same question as above.

1 two bedroom apt in Oceanscape in Al Reem in Abu Dhabi @ 1,130. 100% financed by bank and no payment till completion.

That is the wild card I guess since teh developer is Damac (sigh). What is going for it I guess is the building design, waterfront and Abu Dhabi reported to not let any developer screw the initial phase of Shams Abu Dhabi at Reem. Shoring and piling is done and Damac said they should have thge main contractor on site in June. They said it is in their best interest to move on this as strategic in Abu Dhabi and payments linked to construction.

I have no issues making payments on the above properties. Will be a bit squeezed but can make the payments.

Your feedback on my question and overall portfolio position would be most appreciated

All right


----------



## Imre

expatriates.com:

Description: Jlt
Liwa Heights
Area-9600sqft
Offices-7
Car Park-7
Ready to Move-in
O.P- 850/sqft
S.P- 780/sqft Net

I saw many adverts of 120-140dhs/sqft for office rent (JLT) but office towers still empty so what will be the price in the Business Bay if many towers handed over? 
40-50 dhs?


----------



## Monument

*Dubai will recover*

Dubai will recover - it always does and it has been through many similar busts before.

*But it will, like most deep recessions, as history shows, take 3-4 years to recover*: it is only about 1 year into this recession (which really started well before it was transparent to the market).

Any expectations of a quick recovery (while that would be very nice) is an unlikely event as too much has to be worked through and out of the system including any excesses. 

Best time to buy will _probably_ be late 2010 and in 2011, just before the market realizes that a true uptrend has emerged and when gloom is still aorund.


----------



## dbxdude

Hi HT, 
Dubai property, was a stock market of sorts. The Dow Theory which is set out really well in your post and a theory i first saw in Mark Shipmans book, commodities the next big boom, does applies almost exactly to Dubai Real-estate thus far. 

However, its important to note that all three phases are not always met. For instance many up trends never get to stage three as many down trends never get to the panic stage, although i think we are almost there now. Property doesnt always enter the bottom of the stage three - since alot of sellers are now trapped with negative equity and cant sell. To get the real bottom we are going to need banks to forclose or go bust such as is happening in the US. Not sure it will happen here. 

You Dow theory, now also seems to apply to Gold BTW, Gold looks like its in stage 2. IMHO, thoughts from you HT?


----------



## dbxdude

spyk said:


> Well half the stuff doesnt NEED to be built. Do you really think there is GENIUNE demand (by people who will buy to live) for like 5 palms and all these worlds and universes? no.


Why yes. There is demand, For example, i think we can all say, we need a flat in the city for those nights we are working late, a house on a palm for the weekends, and then a vacation home in RAK (its just like going to the med but closer dont you know), plus of course a water home and then another place from granny, then the kids need a place international city next to uni... Gee, we need more homes! 

P.S. There are still speculators in the market, its just they are speculating down. 

The greatest speculators of all are those who built the things. And whos going to live on floor 177.....


----------



## dbxdude

My humble opions in Bold below. 



Allright said:


> Dear forum members,
> 
> I have been reading the forums for the past 10 days straight now and I would very much appreciate an assessment of my current portfolio. I am freaking out a bit so I just want feedback on where I stand in these crazy times. I know that "no one knows" but a candid assessment would be most appreciated. The properties:
> 
> 1 Office in JLT in Mazaya Business Avenue bought @ 915 AED/Sqft - no mortgage. Remaining 30% out of which 20% percent is on completion.
> *Stick it out, the price you paid is good, it may reach this price or go below but its to late now and if its actually built will be ok mid term*
> 
> Hoping to rent when comlete in mid 2010. How difficult will it be to rent and what am i looking at in terms of rent range?
> 
> 1 Office in JLT in Mazaya Business Avenues @ 1500 AED/Sqft with 50% on final completion. No mortgage.
> *Going to hurt a bit on this but advise same as above, unless you can get a buyer at OP, keep it
> *
> Same question as above.
> 
> 1 one bedroom apt in V3 Tower in JLT @ 1,200 AED/Sqft. 50% paid in cash while the remaining bank mortgage over 25 years.
> *Advise as above - wow you liked JLT....*
> Handover should be this April-May. Same question as above.
> 
> 1 two bedroom apt in Oceanscape in Al Reem in Abu Dhabi @ 1,130. 100% financed by bank and no payment till completion.
> *This going to be delayed but despite the fact that its Damac its on Al reem so this project probably get taken over. Price is very good for alreem. You could probably sell it to someone who knew about alreem but not damac*
> 
> That is the wild card I guess since teh developer is Damac (sigh). What is going for it I guess is the building design, waterfront and Abu Dhabi reported to not let any developer screw the initial phase of Shams Abu Dhabi at Reem. Shoring and piling is done and Damac said they should have thge main contractor on site in June. They said it is in their best interest to move on this as strategic in Abu Dhabi and payments linked to construction.
> 
> I have no issues making payments on the above properties. Will be a bit squeezed but can make the payments.
> 
> Your feedback on my question and overall portfolio position would be most appreciated
> 
> All right


Your positions are alot better then most peoples, assuming it all gets built. Good luck, chin up, u may want to put those positions in the draw for a few months. Obviously if you can sell do, but if you cant, dont panic.


----------



## methodinmadness

Bongoboots said:


> Dubai Guru, Judging by your comments I can only believe someone that is so defensive of this project obviously must work for either the developer or the agent...am I correct?


My thoughts exactly!:lol:


----------



## gerald.d

dbxdude said:


> Hi HT,
> Dubai property, was a stock market of sorts. The Dow Theory which is set out really well in your post and a theory i first saw in Mark Shipmans book, commodities the next big boom, does applies almost exactly to Dubai Real-estate thus far.
> 
> However, its important to note that all three phases are not always met. For instance many up trends never get to stage three as many down trends never get to the panic stage, although i think we are almost there now. Property doesnt always enter the bottom of the stage three - since alot of sellers are now trapped with negative equity and cant sell. To get the real bottom we are going to need banks to forclose or go bust such as is happening in the US. Not sure it will happen here.


All it will take for property in Dubai to get to "the real bottom" is for people to give up and get on the plane.


----------



## dbxdude

True, but not so easy for many, no jobs in UK/US either. I think to get them to really give up, start arresting people behind on payments. A couple hundred should do the trick.


----------



## 234sale

My friend can find 1Bed + Garden in the Old Town for 120,000 AED

Hopefully when I renue my rent I can get one for 100,000 AED,, the great thing is that the rental comittee will now secure low rents for the forseable future.

Anyone know how Emaars rent to buy is doing... This at some point with the right price will be the golden ticket.


----------



## iced

Yes some good points on Dow Theory. However we are in a process of deleverage and slow growth. This means that even the bottom occurs there maybe a long period of stagnant price increase. 

Lessons from the stock market in the UAE and abroad suggest no recovery to last years peak for at least a decade and maybe longer. 

With the UK and US printing money soon like its water, this may result in huge nominal prices gains in times of inflation which i think will happen in those countries followed by crisis.

The effect on the UAE mean also mean huge price appreciation in nominal terms and then crisis unless monetaty union occurs.

The future is unclear for me from a year out but i suspect inflation will rise and thus property and gold as will as other commodities like oil will be good hedges. 

UAE will be a good place to be at least until this global downturn is finished unless of course you lose your job.


----------



## 234sale

> Dubai Holding appoints new CEO
> by Andy Sambidge on Saturday, 07 March 2009
> 
> NEW ROLE: Dubai Holding's new CEO Ahmad Bin Byat. (Supplied)Dubai Holding on Saturday said Ahmad Bin Byat had been appointed as its new CEO, adding he would play a key role in the company's recently announced consolidation.
> 
> Established in 2004, government owned Dubai Holding has a total of seven member companies, each of which has numerous subsidiaries, brands and projects.
> 
> The seven companies are: Jumeirah Group, TECOM Investments, Dubai Group, Dubai Properties Group, Tatweer, Sama Dubai and Dubai International Capital.


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/548903-dubai-holding-appoints-new-ceo

Let the merging begin


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## Freestyler

New payment plan changes 30/70 payment plan. With new plan investor is paying installments every month and project is delayed then investor may end paying most of the purchase price before completion. If ACI kept 30/70 payment plan than that would have made more sense.



DubaiGuru said:


> Hi Typhoonpilot
> 
> Thank you for your comments and engaging in a healthy discussion. I'm not saying I agree with a lot of things or am extremely upbeat about the scenario. I'm just trying to make the best of a bad situation work for me. ASI introducing the payment plan was good taking into consideration the fact that most people just didn't have money to pay their next installments. I have seen the feedback from investors where they've genuinely thanked ASI, with what appeared to be legit phone and mail id's. How many other developers are even offering this to their existing customers, none that I know of besides Emaar. Chapal as far as I know was extending this for new customers.
> 
> One of the reasons I chose to comment here and be active is to learn something and engage in a discussion we can all benefit from. I'm not sure if you're aware of the laws and decrees the govt. bodies intend to introduce. I have my serious doubts if we can walk away with 20-30% of the initial investment as this will lead to the entire real estate market collapsing which the govt is trying to ensure doesn't happen.
> 
> I am completely with you on the fact that prudent and innovative measures are the call of the day!
> 
> P.S- Thanks for sharing that post on Mada'in


----------



## dbxdude

iced said:


> Yes some good points on Dow Theory. However we are in a process of deleverage and slow growth. This means that even the bottom occurs there maybe a long period of stagnant price increase.
> 
> Lessons from the stock market in the UAE and abroad suggest no recovery to last years peak for at least a decade and maybe longer.
> 
> With the UK and US printing money soon like its water, this may result in huge nominal prices gains in times of inflation which i think will happen in those countries followed by crisis.
> 
> The effect on the UAE mean also mean huge price appreciation in nominal terms and then crisis unless monetaty union occurs.
> 
> The future is unclear for me from a year out but i suspect inflation will rise and thus property and gold as will as other commodities like oil will be good hedges.
> 
> UAE will be a good place to be at least until this global downturn is finished unless of course you lose your job.


Property aside, this is a good a place as any to ride out a depression. 

I think in 2010 you might see alot of companies reloacte to Dubai from London to take advantage of tax and cheap rents to Dubai. It was getting to expensive for them anyway in 08. So a dip in population, followed by a gradual recovery. 

DIFC is less busy, but the people there are generally much happier then in London, it think the remaining financial firms will look at Dubai more favorably. Tourism will come back at the first sign of a recovery and trade will always be strong. 

Id say developers and construction is going to be in the doldurms for years - globally, thats why even at 1.84dhs emaar isnt interesting to me, way to much risk. 

The point about inflation is an interesting one, no doubt a short squeeze is on, with banks selling gold for fast liquidity and thus keeping the market price down around the 900 mark. Once this squeeze is over, who knows where gold can go to. And what about silver? hhmmmm interesting timming for Dubais Gold allocated ETF's - the next speculative bubble?


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## spyk

High Times said:


> *DUBAI REAL ESTATE WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE.*
> 
> Following on from parts 1 & 2. here.
> Dubai cracks part 1
> Dubai cracks part 2
> 
> 
> It is interesting to sit back and read some of the more intelligent posts lately, (admittedly few and far between unfortunately). However the main thrust of the thread in terms of *“where the Dubai real estate market is now?”* has shifted from *“blatant denial”* into *“frustrated acceptance”. *
> 
> In order to ascertain where the market will go from here I would like to propose that the real estate market in Dubai has performed thus far with many similarities to a financial market instrument such as Stock, Future, Option, Index etc.
> 
> In my view this has been actively encouraged by government mouthpieces such as Alineah et al, with particular reference to this web portal;
> http://www.alineah.com/market_analysis.asp Emaar, Nakheel and Co have also been equally culpable in their actions.
> 
> I have previously commented back in the boom days that it was extremely unhealthy, or even irresponsible to display property in this manor as it only fuels speculative behaviour. When I saw an actual ticker bar reflecting current price trends on property, this was a *CODE RED* for me. So if we can agree that Dubai real estate has behaved like a stock index over the past 5 years we can begin to understand how this relates to *DOW THEORY*.
> 
> If we understand the basics of Dow Theory (economist among us will have studied this to gain their degrees). We can begin to understand where we go from here. For those who don’t know Dow Theory here is a breakdown. It’s a bit long winded but well worth understanding in relation to what’s happening in Dubai now. Essentially the second tenet of Dow theory summarises how a market instrument behaves when used by masses to produce investment returns. I have added timeframes and prices to the phases as an *illustration only !*, and are not therefore precise but intended to help relate the theory to Dubai.
> 
> *DOW THEORY TENET 2*
> 
> Tenet 2 is split into 3 phases.
> 
> *1- The Accumulation Phase*
> *2- Public Participation Phase*
> *3- The Excess Phase*
> 
> *1-The Accumulation Phase. **Dubai 2002 – 2004 – Prices circa AED400psf – AED600psf*
> The first stage of a bull market is referred to as the accumulation phase, which is the start of the upward trend. This is also considered the point at *which informed investors* start to enter the market. The accumulation phase typically comes at the end of a downtrend, when everything is seemingly at its worst (not relevant as Dubai is a new market). But this is also the time when the price of the market is at its most attractive level as it is in it’s infancy. However, the accumulation phase can be the most difficult one to spot because it comes at the end of a downward move, which could be nothing more than a secondary move in a primary downward trend - instead of being the start of a new uptrend. This phase will also be characterized by persistent market pessimism, with many investors thinking things will only get worse. (if looking at an established market)
> 
> *2-Public Participation Phase. Dubai 2004 – 2007 – Prices circa AED600psf – AED1500psf*
> When informed investors entered the market during the accumulation phase, they did so with the assumption that great prospects for gains lay ahead. As this starts to materialize, the new primary trend moves into what is known as the public participation phase. During this phase, negative sentiment or doubt starts to dissipate as business conditions - marked by earnings growth and strong economic data - improve. As the good news starts to permeate the market, more and more investors move in, sending prices higher. This phase tends not only to be the longest lasting, but also the one with the largest price movement.
> 
> *3-The Excess Phase. Dubai 2007 -2008 – Prices circa AED1500psf – AED2500psf*
> As the market has made a strong move higher on the improved business conditions and buying by market participants to move starts to age, we begin to move into the excess phase. The last stage in the upward trend, the excess phase, is the one in which the smart money starts to scale back its positions, selling them off to those now entering the market. At this point, the market is marked by, *irrational exuberance*. The perception is that everything is running great and that only good things lie ahead. This is also usually the time when the last of the buyers start to enter the market - after large gains have been achieved. Like lambs to the slaughter, the late entrants hope that recent returns will continue. *Unfortunately for them, they are buying near the top*. During this phase, a lot of attention should be placed on signs of weakness in the trend, such as strengthening downward moves. Also, if the upward moves start to show weakness, it could be another sign that the trend may be near the start of a primary downtrend.
> 
> *I POSTED DUBAI WAS HERE IN JULY 2008.*
> 
> *Primary Downward Trend (Bear Market).*
> 
> *The Distribution Phase. Dubai Sept 2008 – Present.*
> The first phase in a bear market is known as the distribution phase, the period in which informed buyers sell (distribute) their positions. This is the opposite of the accumulation phase during a bull market in that the informed buyers are now selling into an overbought market instead of buying in an oversold market. In this phase, overall sentiment continues to be optimistic, with expectations of higher market levels. It is also the phase in which there is continued buying by the last of the investors in the market, especially those who missed the big move but are hoping for a similar one in the near future. As was the case in the accumulation phase, the distribution phase can be difficult to spot in its early stages. The reason for this is that it may be disguised as a secondary downward trend within the primary upward trend.
> 
> *Public Participation Phase. Dubai – THIS IS WHERE WE ARE NOW.*
> This phase is similar to the public participation phase found in a primary upward trend in that it lasts the longest and will represent the largest part of the move - in this case downward. During this phase it is clear that the business conditions in the market are getting worse and the sentiment is becoming more negative as time goes on. The market continues to discount the worsening conditions as selling increases and buying dries up.
> 
> *The Panic Phase. Dubai – We may be entering this phase now or soon. It will last most of this year I suspect.*
> The last phase of the primary downward market tends to be filled with market panic and can lead to very large sell-offs in a very short period of time. In the panic phase, the market is wrought up with negative sentiment, including weak outlooks on companies, the economy and the overall market. During this phase you will see many investors selling off their stakes in panic. Usually these participants are the ones that just entered the market during the excess phase of the previous run-up in asset price.
> 
> *But just when things start to look their worst is when the accumulation phase of a primary upward trend will begin and the cycle repeats itself.*
> 
> *This is how the theory relates to the FTSE 100.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So there you have a condensed version of Dows second tenet. Although the original theory was produced to analyse stock and index movements, you don’t need a masters degree to see the similarities it shares with whets happened or is happening in Dubai.
> 
> *SO WHERE ARE WE HEADING NEXT ?*
> 
> In my view what will happen next will be one of two scenarios and will depend on how real estate in Dubai will perform (or be allowed to perform by government), in the next phase of the cities social economic development.
> 
> *SCENARIO 1*-
> IF Dubai real estate continues to perform as a stock or index or similar instrument then we can expect to see prices stabilise soon and could well climb back to August 2008 prices within 12-24 months.
> 
> *SCENARIO 2* -
> IF Dubai real estate ceases to act and be traded as stock type instruments and reverts to traditional real estate fundamentals then it could be 5 – 10 years before we see prices in the region of AED2000psf – AED3000psf again (barring certain ultra top end exceptions).
> 
> I think it is a dangerous position to simply assume that after a crash or a correction there will be another boom. This has traditionally been the case when discussing more liquid assets such as stocks, options, futures etc, but real estate was never supposed to be like that and it only happened because of one word. *SECURITIZATION.*
> 
> That nasty word that has brought the world to it’s knees. I don’t think that we will see the levels of liquidity that are needed to inflate another bubble in real estate until the pain of this mess is forgotten and that is likely to be 10 years or more in my view.
> 
> My analysis brings me to believe that Dubai, (once the current crash is over) will learn it’s lesson and behave more like a traditional real estate market did before someone invented securitized lending instruments.
> 
> This means more modest capital appreciation levels and more modest rental returns. This rental return correction (which is well underway) will move more end users to become purchasers rather than tennants.
> 
> *Dubai can then begin to transform into a city of residents and communities, rather than a city of speculators and developers.*


Excellent post.

And, even liquid securities like stocks take 2-3 years before any sustained recovery in major recessions.

HT,

What is your opinion on the massive amounts of liquidity being injected into the economy. With super low interest rates and quantitative easing and skyrocketying monetary base. Will it lead to high inflation when the economy stabilises? Will gold shoot through the roof?

These govt. and central bank actions are unprecedented. What will their unwanted consequences be?


----------



## dbxdude

yer, forget property, the new dubai property is gold and presious metals, spread the word, every-one needs to start buying. I like it. Human nature, even in a depression, gambling tendencies win. How can we get banks to finance gold acquisition and also trade on margin? 

Im serious btw.


----------



## 234sale

Where HT got some of the quotes form,,
http://www.investopedia.com/university/Dowtheory/Dowtheory3.asp


----------



## tehsin123

Tractor said:


> You've hit the nail on the head ... this is all based on rumour and speculation. A lot of people don't want to see Dubai succeed simply because envy or whatever. There are always people who want to see something great fail ... the UK's papers are full of that kind of stuff.
> 
> The government of Dubai are not stupid - look what they've achieved. Does anyone really think they'll risk breaking promises etc.? Lets just sit back and wait ... chances are they'll out-do Abu Dhabi just to show they're more forward-thinking.


It seems you were not following the developments in recent quarters. We have our money invested in this country, we will be fool to see let it go and be happy at the same time. What we comment on are the flaws in the system and areas to make things better. 
Dubai aspired to be the world's greatest but never actioned anything to achieve that. Planning or building the tallest building, largest flag or longest cake is not an achievement. Winning long term commitment of business community, ensuring a proper legal/welfare infrastructure based in equal rights and keeping up on words should have been the achievements.

IMO, they couldn't win the trust and confidence of expats. I wouldn't discuss the broken promises, I think all of us know very well.

I "hope" we sit back and see things turning positive :cheers: but has it ever happened hno:

We have our money invested here and would like to see this place booming again.


----------



## Allright

dbxdude said:


> My humble opions in Bold below.
> 
> 
> 
> Your positions are alot better then most peoples, assuming it all gets built. Good luck, chin up, u may want to put those positions in the draw for a few months. Obviously if you can sell do, but if you cant, dont panic.


Thank you dbxdude for the feedback. From a building perspective, V3 is complete and we will be getting out 1 beds soon. 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=258033&page=7
I think I should be renting it out in June. I am willing to take 12 checks from a serious tenant. What could I be looking in terms of rent in June? The building has pool, gym and parking and apparently good finishing. The size is 845 sqft. 

Mazaya Business Avenue is 50% complete and they are going fast http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=439040&page=2
I met with the developers and I am happy with the. Also, apparently he said that they are one of the few who have a "freehold liscence" where clinics could rent etc...not sure how valuable that is. But I am scared of post like Imre that says that no office are being rented. I would hate to have two offices there empty with no income whatsover after completion. How possible are for rent to drop to less than 100AED per Sqft on good commercial in JLT. Each of my office is 1,600 Sqft. Completion is due mid 2010; I would say end 2010, maybe better at the time...You mention put in the "draw for a couple of months". What do u mean, shoud I try to sell the 1500 AED one. I doubt acheaving that price is reaslitic. But I ould be ok for renting at say 140 AED / Sqft from a yield perpective.... 

Reem I am least worried about as I dont have any equity in there and I could afford the mortage if they finish the building as it is 150K per year, as much as I am currently renting my two bed in Abu Dhabi. So i could live in it, even if I sell it at 1500 on completion, my IRR is infinite as zero down...

Thank you very much for this discussion. Helps the frustration get out....

Many thanks


----------



## Mistermark

I agree 100 percent with HT except that I think the three phases on the downward trend started sooner than many people recognise. I think the distribution phase started in Spring/Summer 2008 and ended late Autumn, the public participation phase started in October and we're now in the panic phase.


----------



## dubaifirst

more bad news for the stars.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2...15875-21180367/


----------



## dbxdude

desertmaster said:


> i agree that every default should be civil case not a criminal offense. but that is the law here my friend since a very long time , and to add gets waived off for big entities but not for the common man . not knowing this is though not stupidity its ignorance and ignorance of law is no excuse anywhere in the world !!!!


I dont think these people are stupid, they were sold a dream, by a govt no less. Now its up to the govt to address the issues that are becomming apparent and i think once they become aware of these issues they might. Govts all over the world are addressing these issues right now. 

How someone is sold a villa in 2005 that would be finnished in 2007 and in 2009 he is still paying both interest and rent untill he runs out of money is stupid i dont know. I think they were just unlucky and if you had compasion, you would say it is sad and unfortunate. 

Desertmaster, if you invested in La Hoy Bay in RAK and the developer swindled you, spent lavishly, did no work etc but you were told by RAK govt it would be a great investment, then after the developer went bust would you approach RAK govt to help you with a solution or would you just say - i was stupid to invest in the dream sold to me by RAK govt so i deserve to loose money? If you had taken a nice finance option (which i assume you didnt) how would you feel knowing you could no go to jail? Fairly ridiculous isnt it, but it could happen to people. So the sooner they address that issue the better for all.


----------



## V Kapoor

*Carry On!!*



luluprovence said:


> smussuw; naz; dubai steve; happy larry; richard head; 11sinbad11; jagmp; wannaberich; imre; altind; vkapoor; peacesells; *and* all of you who make this thread come alive *anybody home?*
> hno:


Was in arrears to read this thread for two three days. Once you miss out 2/3 days it takes ages to catch up the voluminous material that people post! Though lengthy discussions on "Taxation Laws in the UK" are of least interest.

Excellent post by HighTImes.....it sums up the state most of us are in and how and when we made our investments in what kind of market scenarios. I for one, have invested in all the three phases, starting from 2004 to 2005, to late 2007. Actually investors and flippers are not two different people. We all have traits of both hidden insideus. My first investments were simple investments to earn capital appreciation and rent (2004). Second one in 2005 was to consolidate. In 2007, I invested in a place in which one could live in (Ajman). And the last ones in late mid 2008 were pure and simple greed. The results of the timing and intent of the investments are there before me .....the markets having crashed. If I take credit of the wise decision of 2004 investment, 60% of which I have already recovered in rents, I also take the blame for my rash and blind moves of 2008 (mid). It looks as though I have transacting in all the three phases, but all in, all no regrets at all. I am quite comfortable as I have no debts or bank loans to depend on.

There is a lull in the market with projects having stopped and prices having fallen, with close to no deals taking place. We have to just wait for times to change which I am sure they will. Nevertheless, keeping a discussion alive, like we have here in this thread, even in these recessionary times, is Good!!!

As for predictions, its really difficult, though for people with insight into theories of Economics its worth a try to go by the past and try and extrapolate. But situations differ in time and from each other. I think here, a lot of people are nervous after being hit, though most of them are still being able to sustain somehow. Those who can't are resorting to "distress sales". There is, I feel, a majority of guys who would like to exit if not fully, partially, but would not like to do so today. At the slightest signs of recovery, some of these people might offload some investments, which might in the short term prevent the things from improving quickly in a straight line. More than economics the situation has lot also to do with investor sentiment, which is low at the moment. Sentiments take longer to improve than purely market and economic conditions. It seems recovery will start not before 18 to 24 months (from now).


----------



## Hanna

*Mediation centre for realty disputes to start by April*

Property disputes will be settled at a new mediation centre from next month. (SUPPLIED)

Anjana Kumar on Monday, March 09, 2009

A law will be issued this month to mandate that a mediation centre will now try to settle property disputes before they go to
the Property Court, Emirates Business can reveal.

"The mediation centre, which will be overseen by the Property Court, will become operational in April, thereby speeding up the process of settling all civil property related issues," said Chief Judge Mohammed Yousuf Sulaiman, Deputy Director for Dubai Courts and Cassation Court's Senior Judge.
Cases will be heard by the mediation centre for a maximum of one month after which they will be forwarded to the Property Court. The centre will have representation from the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) and the Property Court.Sulaiman said this mediation centre will try and resolve as many civil property disputes as possible and only unresolved cases will be passed to the Property Court for judgement."By any law of court, a mediation centre has to be set up to try and resolve as many disputes as possible before it reaches the judges in the courts and that is what we are doing here within the Property Court," said Sulaiman."We are seeing a number of cases piling up within the Property Court and we do not want to keep so many pending. We would like to fix these issues as early as possible. We have also noticed that, in some disputes, there is a misunderstandings between the buyer, developer and other parties. In such cases, we will try to resolve the disputes in a friendly manner."Sulaiman said: "Our other mediation centres set up for labour and family dispute cases have seen positive results and have helped resolve almost 70 per cent of the cases before they were passed on to the courts. The experience of this success made us decide to create a mediation centre for property-related issues."
To register a complaint, an aggrieved party has to register the case with the mediation centre and must try to resolve the dispute within a one month, Sulaiman said. Currently, more than 500 cases are pending with the Property Court.


----------



## Hanna

*What must an investor do if he suspects a developer isn't meeting construction milestones?*

What must an investor do if he suspects a developer isn't meeting construction milestones?

original published GulfNews

Article (17) of Law No (8) 2007 is introduced, what must an investor do if he suspects a developer isn't meeting construction milestones?
Law No (8) of 2007 came into effect on June 28, 2007 Article (17) details circumstances under which a developer shall be cancelled from the Register of Developers. One circumstance is that the developer has failed to start construction within six months of being granted permission to sell off-plan, except if the developer has an acceptable excuse.No developer may carry out real estate development activities unless it is on the Register of Developers. Under Article (17), the Land Department is in charge of the Register of Developers and therefore where an investor feels a developer is in breach of Article (17) and they cannot sort the matter between themselves, the investor should approach the Land Department to help resolve the issue.If I'm already an off-plan investor, will the new law be of assistance to me too?Law No. (8) of 2007 applies to contracts between investors and developers whether signed before, on or after June 28, 2007. While that law does not oblige a developer to use a payment schedule that is linked to construction milestones, RERA has recently made three recommendations.Firstly, each developer will be restricted from collecting more than 30% of payments on developments until the developer started construction. Secondly, each developer will be precluded from selling off-plan until (i) it owns the land to be developed and (ii) it has completed at least 20% of construction.Thirdly, each payment plan must link payment installments to milestones in the construction of the development. Although these recommendations are not yet law, this seems to be 'RERA' intention.Under the new rental regulation, how do I know whether the cap applies to the property I'm leasing?If property was rented during 2008 and the rent in 2008 was between the average standard rent and 75% of the average standard rent, then the rent in 2009 may not be increased (certain increases are permitted where the 2008 rent was less than 75% of the average standard rent).A property's average standard rent will likely be halfway between the low figure and the high figure for rents in that area in Dubai. (For details go to www.rpdubai.ae.)I've heard that if investors have disputes with a developer and want to pursue matters further, they need to put down 7.5% of the total cost of the investment as a down payment, before they will be heard at a tribunal. Is this true? In the contract between the investor and the developer, there will be a clause that states whether disputes are to be resolved before the Dubai Court or at arbitration. This clause will state the conditions (if any) that must be satisfied before a dispute goes to court or to arbitration.It is possible that a specific contract would require payment of a given percentage of the purchase price,but there are no hard-and-fast rules.The investor should carefully read the terms of his contract in order to establish his position.


----------



## dlnash

Developer Sees Property Market Rebound 
Aneela Batool 


9 March 2009 
DUBAI - Memon Investments, a Dubai-based property developer, forecasts that the UAE’s stricken real estate market will start to recover within the next eight to 12 months. 

The key factor in Memon’s projection is the federal government’s $20 billion bond programme, which Memon Investments Managing Director Ahmed Shaikhani called “a tremendous development” that will make funds available to cash-strapped real estate firms now burdened by debt.

“It should also provide a more upbeat atmosphere to the sombre tone the economy, particularly the construction sector, has taken,” he said on Sunday. “By helping to ease up the tight liquidity in the Dubai market, the construction industry should pick up, as delayed or cancelled developments are breathed with new life, and plans for new projects start to materialise.”

Another factor in Memon’s forecast is that construction costs per square foot in the UAE have declined by an average of 30 per cent since the onset of the current economic crisis. Lower construction costs should make the prices for completed projects more affordable and eventually help stimulate demand, Shaikhani said.

“Industry experts point to the massive drop in the prices of steel, and other materials including aluminium, wood, glass and diesel. The declining cost of labour and supervision due to recent redundancies and terminations has also contributed to the dip in construction expenditures,” he said.

*Emaar Properties, the UAE’s largest real-estate developer, is slashing purchase prices on a Dubai residential project by 25 per cent after cutting its building costs. Emaar has cut costs at its Standpoint residential project in the downtown Burj Dubai area and will pass those savings on to customers, Bloomberg reported Emaar as saying on Sunday. The price reduction will be based on the original purchase prices and will be available to customers who have paid all their installments on time or who can clear all their debt within 30 days from March 5, the report said.*

Memon said it expects to meet its completion targets for its own projects, starting with the Dh75 million Champions Tower I, due for delivery by the end of this year. Memon values its overall residential and commercial property portfolio, which includes the Frankfurt Sports Tower I and the Cambridge Business Centre, at around Dh1.34 billion. 

“Dubai has been hit by the financial crisis, and is now experiencing correction, with prices getting adjusted as per the laws of demand and supply,” Shaikhani said. He added, however, that “the fundamental framework of Dubai is still very much intact; hence, there is great potential for the market to bounce back sooner


http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/ins.../March/business_March340.xml&section=business


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai Tourist Visa confusion: Don’t trust that stamp in your passport*

Dubai Tourist Visa confusion: Don’t trust that stamp in your passport

The National

March 09. 2009 12:36AM UAE / March 8. 2009 8:36PM GMT

DUBAI // Some visitors to the UAE are facing heavy fines upon leaving the country because of erroneous official stamps in their passports.Under the rule changes introduced last July, all visit visas are now valid for 30 days instead of 60. Yet a number visitors since then have been given stamps in their passports showing 60-day validity.“I came in on Dec 28 and was given a visa at the airport that says ‘60 days from date of entry’,” said Anne, a British citizen. “I left 43 days later but was stopped at passport control and told that there were no more 60-day visas. The man said they were all 30 days, and I had to pay an Dh800 (US$218) fine. I wasn’t the only one; the people in front of me were having to pay Dh3,000. It was lucky that I had just enough cash on me or I would have missed my flight.”She said she was offered no explanation about when or why the rules had changed.“I asked how I was supposed to know that what was written in my passport was incorrect and was told that I should have read the newspapers,” she said. “It’s very unclear and seems harsh.”Even the British Embassy admits to some confusion. A notice on the website of the UK’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office says: “The length of visit visas given to visitors on arrival changed with effect January 1 2009. The Ministry of Immigration has told us verbally, but not confirmed in writing, that British nationals will get a 30-day visa on arrival.”Nationals of 33 countries, including most of Europe, the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, get their initial 30-day visa free, and are also given a 10-day grace period during which they can pay to extend the visa by another 30 days. Citizens of other countries have to pay on arrival and cannot extend their stays.
Jerome, who holds Italian and Swiss passports, was fined at the border when driving to Oman for a day trip.“The immigration officer said I had overstayed, despite the fact that my visa said 60 days and I was well within that time,” he said. “In order to leave I had to pay Dh1,300. The official just said the rules had changed and that what it said in my passport did not count.”
Jerome said he went to different offices of the Department of Naturalisation and Residency – Dubai (DNRD) trying to get a refund.“But nobody seemed to know what was going on,” he said. “Eventually I was told to submit a complaint online. I just don’t understand why I was fined. I’m not in this country to break the law; if I had known my visa was only valid for 30 days, I would have left within that time.” The DNRD said 60-day visa stamps were no longer being used.“Since July 2008, the system has seen a large-scale change, and some errors were bound to happen,” said Major Gen Mohammed al Marri, the director general of the DNRD. “If it is a human error by one of our employees, we will do our best to rectify it on a case-by-case basis, and if it is a lack of understanding of the regulations, our call-centre staff would be happy to offer the correct information.”Gen al Marri urged people with complaints to get in touch with the DNRD either by telephone (800 5111) or by e-mail ([email protected]). Complaints can also be made on the internet at www.amer.ae. Information on the various types of visas is at www.dnrd.ae.


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## Hanna

*Man-made island of Al Marjan in Ras al Khaimah, is insolvent*

Khoie Properties, the developer behind a proposed Dh2 billion (US$545 million) project on the man-made island of Al Marjan in Ras al Khaimah, is insolvent, its chief financial officer said yesterday - 800 investors in La Hoya Bay, 50 per cent are from the UK Khoie Properties, the developer behind a proposed Dh2 billion (US$545 million) project on the man-made island of Al Marjan in Ras al Khaimah, is insolvent, its chief financial officer said yesterday.The La Hoya Bay project was sold to hundreds of investors, many from Britain, who are now pressing the Government of Ras al Khaimah to intervene because little progress has been made.A senior member of the board of Khoie Properties is in jail after being detained by police for allegedly failing to honour a cheque written to pay for the land.“The company being insolvent means you are unable to meet your liabilities. So it is basically insolvent,” said Ahmad Jazayeri, the chief financial officer of Khoie Properties.
The board member has been in a Dubai prison for nearly two months after allegedly bouncing a cheque worth Dh57m, according to a senior government official.“He is in prison for one bounced cheque worth Dh57m, but every six month there is another cheque,” said Wahid Attalla, the executive director of Rakeen, the property arm of Ras al Khaimah Investment Authority (RAKIA).
Mr Jazayeri also confirmed that a senior member of the board had been detained.“Honestly, he does not have enough funds to meet his obligations,” Mr Jazayeri said.About 70 investors have signed a petition encouraging RAKIA, the government entity responsible for reclaiming Al Marjan Island, to take over the project and finish it.“We are delighted that RAKIA is in negotiations with Khoie to save this exciting project and to retain the existing investors,” said Ashley Merry, a spokeswoman for the La Hoya Bay Investors Group. “We still have faith in La Hoya Bay. We are grateful that they have actually taken an interest and are negotiating, whatever the outcome.”Khoie Properties bought plots of land worth a total of Dh306m for the project from RAKIA and began off-plan sales to investors in 2007.
However, the company did not pay the total amountfor the land. Instead, it made a payment of Dh72m to the authorities and then provided post-dated cheques every six months to cover the outstanding amount. Mr Jazayeri said the next cheque was due in June.RAKIA and Rakeen are in talks with Khoie Properties to ascertain the developers’ liabilities, and the possibility of a takeover of the project has been raised. But RAKIA is resisting this option.
“I do not think such a deal will happen,” said Khater Massaad, the chief executive of RAKIA. “The problem if we take over the project is that we will have to put in cash. [Khoie Properties] collected Dh280m and only spent Dh50m in the construction of the project.” Mr Jazayeri said that two-thirds of the investors’ contributions had been spent on the project. “Dh72m has been spent for the land, Dh50m for piling and construction on four buildings, and around Dh68m were commissions, marketing and administration,” he said, adding that the rest had been used for other purposes.“Other investments were made in a school, and other industries like the kitchen cabinets factory and trading activities.”Mr Massaad said he was concerned that the company was not due to receive any more payments until construction was complete. According to the payment plans, many investors have to contribute as little as 30 per cent of the value of their properties, with the balance due after completion.“According to preliminary accounts we received from Khoie’s accountant, they will not receive anything this year. So we cannot work on the project,” Mr Massaad said the company had several options to obtain more cash.“Some money was invested in the school, which is now closed. It could be sold,” he said. “Also, Dh700m remains to be paid by investors after completion. Some construction companies are willing to come in on a partnership basis to accept most of the payment at the end after delivery. We could start with three buildings and proceed.”According to Mr Attalla, the government is close to making a decision.“What we have is a developer who is more or less bankrupt and the Government of Ras al Khaimah, represented by RAKIA, is trying to find a solution for the sake of the investors. But it is all about how much liability there is. There is a limit to how much we can do,” Mr Attalla said.Of the 800 investors in La Hoya Bay, 50 per cent are from the UK.


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## Hanna

*Dubai scandals multiply by the day !*

Hi


Please check the link !

http://dubai7stars.blogspot.com/


:cheers:


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## Wannaberich

HappyLarry said:


> Good post HT. :nuts:
> Ignore wannabe...Like most of us, he will neverbe.
> 
> :


zzzzzzzzzz


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## iced

Mistermark said:


> I disagree. To me the panic phase in a real estate market is one in which new projects are pretty much unsaleable at any price because prospective buyers either aren't out there or, if they are, don't believe they'll be built, projects underway stall because buyers either can't make the instalments or, if they can, would rather write off funds invested to date because prices have fallen so much since they reserved that it'd be better to walk away and buy distress-priced completed units, and completed units are being sold at or below their original release prices, for figures so low that the yields - even in a depressed rental market - are many times the return on cash deposits.
> 
> All of these conditions currently apply in Dubai, which is why I believe we're now in panic phase.
> 
> How long the phase continues and the extent of the recovery will depend in part on the state of the global economy but to a greater degree on what the Dubai government does to fix its own local difficulties.


Off plan are difficult to sell but completed properties are not so difficult to sell if the price is right. Panic occurs when will sell everything at any price.

Panic will be when completed properties are nearing there original prices or going below. So when IC studios go to below 200k and nobody is buying then we have panic. Springs villa falling to below 500k and nobody buying we have panic. That will signal the bottom.

Am sure at least a couple of posters would snap up Springs at those prices so even then it could be argued that these are not panic prices where are just willing to sell at any price. I think that we are still way off.


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## AppleMac

Mistermark said:


> and completed units are being sold at or below their original release prices,


Is that happening? - All the sales that I have seen lately (and completed property is still selling) are for values several hundred percent above the original sale price.


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## desertmaster

*Dubai property market staring into a black hole*

Dubai property market staring into a black hole

March 09, 2009

The property market in Dubai is staring into a black hole and any hope of a recovery in 2009 is just wishful thinking, according to a leading property company. 

Both sales and mortgage valuations have taken big hits amid the slowdown in the real estate industry, according to Ronald Hinchey, resident partner, Cluttons Dubai. 

Hinchey revealed that company sales were at two or less a month, compared to about 15 during the peak months of July and August last year. 

Also mortgage valuations, which peaked at about 250 a month for around 17 mortgage providers were down to 50 per month. 

“Property management has continued and commercial valuations have continued so those two departments have kept our business going,” Hinchey said. 

Cluttons expects to see a drop in the price of residential rents, a move that will not be unpopular. “I think residential rents will need to come off their highest peaks by at least 50 per cent,” Hinchey said, adding that prices would also be affected by the number of people leaving the country, which would slow demand. 

However, with some contracts running for one to two years, Hinchey said the full scale of price drops would not be felt until 2011. 

Hinchey also stressed the importance of affordability in Dubai's real estate market. Currently young executives spend around 60 per cent of their salary on rent whereas between 20 25% would be more realistic. 

Hinchey is not bullish about recovery in the real estate market. “Given the fact we're looking into a bit of a black hole at the moment, we really don't know where the world economy is going, we really don't know what's happening to liquidity, we really don't know what's happening to demand,” Hinchey said. 

And he hit out at developers, agents and analysts who predict a recovery in 2009. “A lot of projects have been shelved or cancelled. So for people to say everything is going to come right in the second, third or fourth quarter is just wishful thinking,” Hinchey said.


http://www.realtyplusmag.com/rpnewsletter/fullstory.asp?news_id=2076&cat_id=4


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## Wannaberich

AppleMac said:


> Is that happening? - All the sales that I have seen lately (and completed property is still selling) are for values several hundred percent above the original sale price.


I think you're deluded if you think there are no panic/distress sales etc.
I have a 1 bed in a building completed last year where two units are up for the original price,plus two others are going for around + 10%.
If you searched various websites you'd find plenty of other bargains.

I dont think all these bargains are panic sales.Some are just from owners who want their money back,maybe to invest somewhere else etc.
Also,because of the strong dollar,many ex-pats who brought say a year ago,could sell at the original price and still make a profit.


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## Effervescence

What does Magic Planet have to do with Royal Estates Dubai Guru - Please elaborate.

Does anyone know about Royal Estates : 

I have made some findings after digging and would like confirmation??
When looking at upcoming hotels. I decided to look up the ‘Shaza hotel’ – Valli Palace in the Royal Estates (DIP). In an earlier article I read that ‘Shaza’ was a name to watch out for in the hotels in ME. 

On BNC Networks it was only on ‘design’ stage, when I called up the owner – Aristocrat, I got passed to a Mr Ayoub on site (he may be the Project Manager, he was grumpy however seemed interested and kindly informed me that the ‘hotel apartments’ (think he said 8 buildings were in construction phase)

I came across a group of projects today in the ‘Royal Estates’ (see below) - Maybe they are the buildings he was talking about? As it is in the luxury segment maybe there is more of a chance they are going through? Especially, as it is based in Dubai Investment Park. I am in the process of trying to get through to the Horizon Consulting group to find out more on these projects. 

According to magazine articles they are set to complete the entire hotel in December 2010.


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## AppleMac

Wannaberich said:


> I think you're deluded if you think there are no panic/distress sales etc.


You can call me all the names you want but I am just going on personal experience.

A friend sold his villa last week for 2 Million - original price 600,000. Of course if he sold it last year he would have got 4 Million but I'm shedding any tears for him.


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## luluprovence

---------------------


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## Richard Head

^^ Yup, same goes for anyone who bought pretty much anything between 2002 and 2005 that is now complete, still sitting on a healthy paper profit. Or indeed a real profit if they actually sell.


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## Wannaberich

AppleMac said:


> You can call me all the names you want


:?


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## Wannaberich

AppleMac said:


> A friend sold his villa last week for 2 Million - original price 600,000. Of course if he sold it last year he would have got 4 Million but I'm shedding any tears for him.


Off course many 'bargains' out there the owners are still making a healthy profit.
I'm talking more about those who brought within the last two years.


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## Old Town Lovin...

*Land / Title Registration*

Sorry if this is the wrong thread... Emaar has finally registered my building I guess so now its my turn... Anyone have a clue of how much this is going to cost me... here is the website for the land department... it lists about 5 billion different fees... hno: and will any of these fees require CASH? Thanks... 

http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/ld_website/english/Misc/Fees_English.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1


Type of transaction Fees 
Mortagage Fees 
Mortgage registration fees 0.25% of the debt amount up to the maximum of 1.5 million dirhams 
Mortgage transfer fees 0.25% of the debt amount up to the maximum of 1.5 million dirhams 
Mortgage disclosure 1000 dirhams 
Extending payment of mortagage contract 1000 dirhams 
Valuation Fees 
Fees for the valuation of immovable assets (valuation of vacant plot) 2000 dirhams 
Valuation of constructed plot / residential villa 4000 dirhams 
Valuation of constructed plot / commercial building 6000 dirhams 
Valuation of construced plot / hotel According to the estimation of the evaluation section up to the maximum of 15000 dirhams 
Valuation of agricultural plot 4000 dirhams 
Valuation of lands without buildings According to the estimation of the evaluation section up the maximum of 15000 dirhams 
Musataha Fees 
Musataha registration fee 1% of the Musataha value 
Musataha transfer fees 0.25% of the debt amount up to the maximum of 1.5 million dirhams 
Musataha contract termination fees 1000 dirhams 
Extension of Musataha contract period 1000 dirhams 
Issuance of Title Deed Fees 
Issuance of replacement title deed 1000 dirhams 
Issuance of title deed 250 dirhams 
Issuance of a title deed for an endowment 500 dirhams 
Issuance of title deed through establishment of ownership of land for which no title deed was issued before 5000 dirhams 
Lease Contract Ended by Ownership Fees 
Lease to Own If the rent was less than 60% of the contract 1% from the seller and 1.75% of 60% selling price from the tenanant otherwise 1% from the seller and 1.75% from the price of rental. 
Extending Lease to Own 1000 dirhams 
Terminating Lease to Own Contract 1000 dirhams 
Transferring Lease to Own Contract 0.25% from the amount of the contract 
Other Fees 
Map issuance fees 100 dirhams 
Issuance of replacement title deed 1000 dirhams 
Sale registration fees 1% on the buyer & 1% on the seller 
Marking of a field location fee 100 dirhams 
Issuance of a letter of reference to Dubai Courts fee 100 dirhams 
Issuance of "letter to whom it may concern" fee 20 dirhams 
Registration of real estate office or agent 5000 dirhams 
Fees for division among partners 1% of the amount subject of division 
Endowment registration fees 0.125% of the amount stated in the will 
Registration of will fees 0.125% of the amount stated in the will 
Family entailment registration fee 2000 dirhams per plot 
Separation fees 1% of the seperated share 
Registration of heirs fees 1000 dirhams per plot 
Returned cheque fees 500 dirhams per cheque 
Public auctions fee 1% if the auction value up to the maximum of 30000 dirhams 
Registration of a long term lease contract 1% of the contract amount 
Purchase registration fees 1% of the purchase amount 
Registering donated land/property 0.125% on the buyer & 1% on the seller


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## HappyLarry

luluprovence said:


> *Happy Birthday Larry* wow that is a refreshing birthday surprise to have your friends down all the way fromt he U.S.ofA. for your birthday bash. :rock:
> Lu


Not only that. HH Sh. Mo ordered for the DM fountains to be launched on for my birthday. How about that? :cheers:


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## luluprovence

------------


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## FWIW

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7933265.stm

bbc spreading our bad news...


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## Imre

FWIW said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7933265.stm
> 
> bbc spreading our bad news...


"Jones Lang LaSalle expects the residential property market to suffer further in the next three months. "

and after 3 months ? :lol:

coming the summer , ramadan etc..


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## Wannaberich

FWIW said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7933265.stm
> 
> bbc spreading our bad news...


On the same day the £ takes another nosedive cos the UKs in the shit.
O the irony.


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## FWIW

^^exactly - no one dares speak the truth about sterling...(except jim rogers and me!)

Edit to add: The beeb have now got an article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7932799.stm

Although, I am sure they have no idea about cause & effect...


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## Philippa C

Are we likely to see mortgage interest rates fall here in the near future? They are way too high.


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## jagmp

jaggress you probably purchased the 1.5% on resale market? 

no Lulu, it was from developer. it was charged at the time of handover last Feb.


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## jagmp

another thing Lulu service charge was only 5dhs/sqf as promised in contract.it is going to stay same for the second yeartoo.:banana: that too in DM.:nuts:


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## Rob Timpie

Press release (from RERA website). Maybe this will help ... 

In early March 2009, four Regulations relating to Jointly Owned Property developments in Dubai will be issued (the ?Regulations?). These Regulations will create the legal framework enabling developers, and in certain instances, owners to apply for the registration of an Owners Association with RERA. Developers will have six months from the date the Regulations are issued to register Owners Associations for their developments and if they do not move promptly to do so owners will themselves be able to register the Owners Association at the Developer?s expense.

RERA has developed an on-line system for the registration of Owners Associations. Developers wishing to use the on-line system will need to undertake a short training program, after which they will be given a user name and password to access the system. Registrations for the training program will commence on 3 March and the first training sessions will commence on 8 March. The system will be available for use on 15 March and this should allow sufficient time for those developers keen to progress their registrations to prepare the necessary documentation and information.

In addition to regulating the registration of an Owners Association, the Regulations introduce international standards governing the management and operation of Owners Associations in Dubai. The owners of apartments or villas in a registered Jointly Owned Property development will become members of an Owners Association. The Owners Association will be responsible for administering and maintaining the Common Areas in their building or villa community and will be governed by a Board elected by the owners. Owners will be empowered to view the financial statements of the Owners Association and to approve the budgets of the Owners Association for the expenses that will be incurred in managing and maintaining the Common Areas on an annual basis.

Accordingly, Mr. Marwan bin Ghalita, CEO of RERA has announced the following clarifications to the freeze on Service Charges announced last week:

1. Service Charges for existing buildings, i.e. buildings that have been handed over, will be frozen at the rates that were applicable in 2008 unless the 2009 rates are for a lesser amount or have been approved by RERA. The freeze will last until the first General Assembly of the Owners Association (which will need to be held within 3 months of registration). 

2. Service Charges for buildings that are about to be handed over, or are in the process of being handed over, will be subject to the approval of RERA and after approval will apply until the first General Assembly of the Owners Association.

3. Owners in both categories of buildings will be required to pay the relevant Service Charges until the Owners approve, with or without amendment, the Service Charges at the first General Assembly of the Owners Association.

4. Service Charges which have already been paid by Owners for the 2009 year will be adjusted accordingly after the Service Charges are approved by the Owners Association. 

5. &n bsp; Developers or managers currently managing Jointly Owned Properties (such as buildings or villa communities) must continue to manage such properties until the first General Assembly of the Owners Association at which time they must present a proper budget for consideration by Owners.

Owners Associations will be required to appoint an Owners Association manager (?General Manager?) who will be responsible for the administrative, secretarial and financial affairs of the Association. The General Manager will need to obtain a license from RERA and to do so will need to show that they are qualified to manage Owners Associations, attend the necessary training course and have the appropriate professional indemnity insurance in place.

As soon as the Regulations are issued, the Dubai Land Department and RERA will be holding information sessions for developers, interested owners and professionals in the real estate sector in Dubai.


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## mikeyk07

I have received email confirmation from DSC confirming the following is correct.

1. No further payments till end May 09.


2. DSC will review the rate of progress achieved by the contractor (UNEC) then prepare a revised payment plan linked to site progress based on the contractors forecast assuming that the contractor is able to work to his schedule. 



3. Registration fee 2% not to be paid till end of 2009.


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## luluprovence

-----------


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## jagmp

its fixed for two years.


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## Bimcnorth

Philippa C said:


> Are we likely to see mortgage interest rates fall here in the near future? They are way too high.


The mortgage situation will change significantly in the second half of the year and as for interest rates they will surely come down as inflation are on the retreat and liquidity improves slowly but steadily.


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## luluprovence

---------


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## jagmp

Lulu Lulu

don't you dare reveal my secrets online.:lol::lol::lol:









l


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## luluprovence

-----------------


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## jagmp

not online:cheers1:


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## Wannaberich

Undersupply on the way?

GULF NEWS:
90,000 housing units to enter market 
By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: March 09, 2009, 22:54

Dubai: New units are set to enter the Dubai realty market over the next two years, despite the global financial downturn. However, this figure is likely to drop due to declining demand, tight liquidity and strict financing options.

Approximately 32,000 new residential units were completed in 2008, bringing the total number of residential stock in Dubai to around 253,000.

Cancellations and construction delays will reduce the total announced residential supply by more than 50 per cent - with around 90,000 more units set to come on to the market between 2009 and 2011 - according to a Lang LaSalle report.

More than 50 per cent of the announced residential and commercial projects due for completion between 2009 and 2012 have now been put on hold or cancelled due to lack of available funding and easing demand. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Because of the global financial downturn, even top developers, such as Nakheel and Meraas have been forced to reschedule, postpone or cancel some of their projects.

These projects include Nakheel's kilometre-tall tower and Trump International Hotel and Tower and Meraas' Jumeirah Garden City which, at a cool Dh350 billion, involved various microclimates and a mini-Manhattan.

Since the last quarter of 2008, prices have dropped and so have rents, up to 50 per cent in certain areas of Dubai, according to officials at Dubai Land Department.

Prices generally, not just for residential properties, are expected to continue falling throughout this year and bottom out some time in 2010, said Craig Plumb, head of research in Mena region, Jones Lang LaSalle.

Ahmad Shaikhani, managing director, Memon Investments, earlier said he expects the UAE real estate sector will "bounce back" within the next eight to 12 months due, in part, to the fall in construction costs by an average of 30 per cent.

Falling prices create huge opportunities to snap up properties for bargain rates. 

However, those wishing to buy property are being barred by huge deposit requirements.

"The original problem was that banks didn't have the money to lend. Now, banks have this but are nervous about lending to real estate. 

"So while they have an increased ability to lend, the banks are still being risk-averse," Plumb told Gulf News.

The report recognised the need for increased fin-ancing options, saying that the government needs to implement some "more radical measures" like removing the link between employment and residency status and a clarification of the law providing for residency for expatriate purchasers of residential units may be required to provide a floor to the market.

Nervous investor sentiment coupled with lower rental rates will encourage residents to lease rather than buy and landlords, too, have been more flexible with payment terms.

"More people are leaning towards that [renting] because prices are falling and people don't want to buy in a declining market. But it's like catching a falling knife - no one knows when the market will stabilise so it's hard to predict the bottom," Plumb said.


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## speculator

Adel said:


> Register your property in UK in a company name.


So that you can be charged CGT instead of IHT


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## Imre

Pleth said:


> Hi Imre,
> Can I comment?
> 
> 1) Hamriyah Free Zone has a real 15 m2 office for 25.000 AED in total. I think even the following year when you renew it the price will go down. ^^
> 2) Best idea, in my opinion. You have the apartment for it, haven't you?
> 3) This one is not easy, as they have changed it to 30 days (+10 days extra). This means you have to travel often, and it cost money. Go to Kiss Island every month :lol:
> You can also buy a visit visa that runs for 60 days at app. 2000 AED as far as I remember. See: http://www.uaeinteract.com/travel/visas.asp
> 4) Well..... :goodbye:
> 
> Dubai is a difficult place to get residence visa to, like everywhere else in this world I guess. And Dubai is making a *lot of money* on people wishing to settle down in Dubai.
> UAE's income from the "visa business" is perhaps higher than any other country in the world. You have paid almost 30.000 AED to be able to stay in UAE for one year right? hno:


I dont agree , residence visa is very easy here just you need money.

yes, maybe next year I would find an office for 5000 dhs/year 

Traveling is easy , I need only 4 fly ticket/year because Emirates still gives 90days visa so its around 4*3000=12.000 dhs/year + 4 *1000 = 4000 for the visa, so totally 16.000 dhs/year , still better than pay more tax for the free zone and at least I am traveling

Yes I paid 30000 dhs/year , sometimes I need a company but I can make a new one anywhere (Delaware,Cayman etc..) for 1000 usd/year only.I dont mind where it is.

this year is done , will see around March 2009.


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## luluprovence

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## luluprovence

--------------


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## smussuw

Imre said:


> I dont agree , residence visa is very easy here just you need money.
> 
> yes, maybe next year I would find an office for 5000 dhs/year
> 
> Traveling is easy , I need only 4 fly ticket/year because Emirates still gives 90days visa so its around 4*3000=12.000 dhs/year + 4 *1000 = 4000 for the visa, so totally 16.000 dhs/year , still better than pay more tax for the free zone and at least I am traveling


Actually if u read the news lately the immigration will fine u if u stayed more than 30 days.


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## Imre

smussuw said:


> Actually if u read the news lately the immigration will fine u if u stayed more than 30 days.


if you get a 90 days visa you can not stay for 90 days?


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## smussuw

^^ http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090309/NATIONAL/705899995


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## luluprovence

---------------


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## Imre

smussuw said:


> ^^ http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090309/NATIONAL/705899995



thanks , I know this but we (Hungarians) cant get a visa at the airport so better to fly with the Emirates , they give a 90 days visa for us

my gf was here 3 times with 90 days visa and she has never had any problems but the new rules if you stay here 90 days after you have to spend 30 days outside the country and after can apply a new visa.


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## luluprovence

-----------------


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## smussuw

Imre said:


> thanks , I know this but we (Hungarians) cant get a visa at the airport so better to fly with the Emirates , they give a 90 days visa for us
> 
> my gf was here 3 times with 90 days visa and she has never had any problems but the new rules if you stay here 90 days after you have to spend 30 days outside the country and after can apply a new visa.


but what is this visa called?


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## luluprovence

-----------------


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## Imre

smussuw said:


> but what is this visa called?


I dont know the name but only can apply if you buy a ticket from the Emirates.

They have 30 and 90 days visa , 90 days visa cost around 1000 dhs , we have to pay in Hungary by HUF and takes around 2-3 days to get the visa.


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## smussuw

^^ I think the 30 days is the tourist visa while the 90 days is the visit visa. The sponsor is Emirates right?


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## Imre

smussuw said:


> ^^ I think the 30 days is the tourist visa while the 90 days is the visit visa. The sponsor is Emirates right?


Yes, The Emirates is the sponsor. Good business for them otherwise we wouldnt buy a ticket from them


----------



## peacesells

> how does this bode for those who borrowed from Amlak?


I'm pretty sure, given the nature of the beast, that there will be zero gain / benefit for the borrowers regardless of the outcome of this inquiry. Some people may say that if Amlak's financial position is somehow improved due to merger, cash injection or whatever, that some of that benefit (in form of reduced rates) will trickle down to borrowers. I, however, will believe it when I see it.



> As far as government buying the loans, well, it's kind of going down that slippery slope as it has happened in other parts of the world, except this time the government is using people's money to pay for mistakes its own entities have done (vs using people's money to pay for mistakes other people have done).
> 
> please explain this


One argument against bailouts is 'moral hazard' - 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard

Financial bail-outs of lending institutions by governments, central banks or other institutions can encourage risky lending in the future, if those that take the risks come to believe that they will not have to carry the full burden of losses. Lending institutions need to take risks by making loans, and usually the most risky loans have the potential for making the highest return. A moral hazard arises if lending institutions believe that they can make risky loans that will pay handsomely if the investment turns out well but they will not have to fully pay for losses if the investment turns out badly. *Essentially, profit is privatized while risk is socialized*. 

In other words:

1) In US - private bank screwed up, the government (that you elected) forces you to partially pay for it through allocation of bailout money from raised taxes. Instead of a new park for your kids, you help those people that caused the crisis in the first place.

2) In Dubai - government-owned bank screwed up, the government (that you didn't elect) forces you to partially pay for it through allocation of government revenues. Instead of a new metro line, you get to pay Nakheel's subcontractors.


----------



## dbxdude

peacesells said:


> I'm pretty sure, given the nature of the beast, that there will be zero gain / benefit for the borrowers regardless of the outcome of this inquiry. Some people may say that if Amlak's financial position is somehow improved due to merger, cash injection or whatever, that some of that benefit (in form of reduced rates) will trickle down to borrowers. I, however, will believe it when I see it.
> 
> 
> 
> One argument against bailouts is 'moral hazard' -
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard
> 
> Financial bail-outs of lending institutions by governments, central banks or other institutions can encourage risky lending in the future, if those that take the risks come to believe that they will not have to carry the full burden of losses. Lending institutions need to take risks by making loans, and usually the most risky loans have the potential for making the highest return. A moral hazard arises if lending institutions believe that they can make risky loans that will pay handsomely if the investment turns out well but they will not have to fully pay for losses if the investment turns out badly. *Essentially, profit is privatized while risk is socialized*.


The US and UAE bailout cannot be compared. 

I think the sums for the UAE to bail itself out are small, pocket change for the Al Nayans. In the US we are talking trillions, in the Dubai a few billion. 

In the US, the bailouts will not work, since the debt is to vast, in the UAE it will since the debt is small and known. In the US they are propping up car manufactures making cars no one wants, banks whos business model is defunct, in the UAE they are propping up companies that need to pay bills for on going construction. 

I think the moral ground lies with the UAE bailing out its STATE owned companies. its a no brainier.


----------



## peacesells

dbxdude said:


> The US and UAE bailout cannot be compared.
> 
> I think the sums for the UAE to bail itself out are small, pocket change for the Al Nayans. In the US we are talking trillions, in the Dubai a few billion.
> 
> In the US, the bailouts will not work, since the debt is to vast, in the UAE it will since the debt is small and known. In the US they are propping up car manufactures making cars no one wants, banks whos business model is defunct, in the UAE they are propping up companies that need to pay bills for on going construction.
> 
> I think the moral ground lies with the UAE bailing out its STATE owned companies. its a no brainier.


Essentially, they are very much alike and comparable: 

1) The companies that have been over-extended and mismanaged are the ones in trouble now. 

2) Only large companies with political muscle (in form of being quasi-government, employing large numbers of people in unions or whatever) get assistance.

Basically, if you're big enough, you cannot fail and are free to screw up because hey you're going to get bailed out by the government anyway. THIS, my friends, is wrong no matter how you spin it and eventually, somewhere, someone will pay for these mistakes and I don't see why 'average' Joes (or Ahmeds) should be the ones to do so.


----------



## docc

^^ But in US, it's taxpayers money, while we don't have direct taxation here.


----------



## peacesells

docc said:


> ^^ But in US, it's taxpayers money, while we don't have direct taxation here.


The government still generates revenue through fees, free zones, SWFs, sale of land etc etc, so it's the same thing really.


----------



## docc

^^ Not really. Income tax can in no way be compared to indirect taxes levied in Dubai.

In the US, the bailout funds will come partly from raised taxes (income and potentially other) and hence every single individual there is affected. Here in the UAE, citizens or expatriates don't pay any income tax, so how is it the same?


----------



## Cayman

I am sorry to be persistent, but about 1-2 months ago, there was a new law / decree or an interpretation of an existing one that clearly stated the payments MUST be in line with the progress of construction.

That's the specific one I am looking for.

Can anyone remember the details?


----------



## luluprovence

-------------


----------



## lovedubai

Cayman said:


> I am sorry to be persistent, but about 1-2 months ago, there was a new law / decree or an interpretation of an existing one that clearly stated the payments MUST be in line with the progress of construction.
> 
> That's the specific one I am looking for.
> 
> Can anyone remember the details?


That decree was initially supposed to be 20% only can be collected before construction starts. It then rose to 30% on a different interpretation. Unfortunately there is no enforcement of any property laws or decrees in Dubai and developers can do whatever they like, knowing that the only thing disgruntled investors will be told is to go to court. Developers can even ignore the advice of the senior management of the Dubai Land Department knowing that the investors cannot take joint action to court.
It's the wild west in Dubai.


----------



## desertmaster

Cayman said:


> I am sorry to be persistent, but about 1-2 months ago, there was a new law / decree or an interpretation of an existing one that clearly stated the payments MUST be in line with the progress of construction.
> 
> That's the specific one I am looking for.
> 
> Can anyone remember the details?


its not law yet read this below....

United Arab Emirates: Update On Property Laws Regulations In Dubai 
24 February 2009


Al Tamimi & Company, in conjunction with the Dubai Land Department provided an Update on Property Laws & Regulations in Dubai on 27 January 2009 at the Godolphin Ballroom, Emirates Towers.

The well attended event attracted journalists, lawyers, property developers and others in the property industry from the region posing numerous questions for the expert panel to answer.

Emad Eldin Farouq, Senior Legal Advisor at the Dubai Land Department opened his presentation by discussing Law 13 of 2008 Regulating the Interim Register and highlighting its legislative importance. The Law introduced the Real Estate Register, which provided investors with added peace of mind. Emad went on to explain the Developers' obligations under Law 13 of 2008 relating to commencing construction of a project, sales off plan and fees payable. He also discussed Unit Area Variations and explained that if a unit turns out to be larger on completion, the developer may not claim the difference in value and if the unit turns out to be smaller then the developer must compensate the purchaser for the difference unless it is marginal in which case the developer would not be required to compensate the purchaser for the shortfall in the area. Emad closed his presentation by discussing the role of Dubai Land Department.

Mohammad Kawasmi, Senior Associate at Al Tamimi & Company addressed the recent changes including the "2009 Cap Decree" and Amendments to the Landlord & Tenant Law. He explained that there would be no rent increase in 2009, if the rent in 2008 was equal to or 25% or less below the average similar rent, as set out by the RERA rent index which was attached to the new decree. He added, however, that RERA were also updating the Index and that the new decree and Amendments to the Landlord & Tenant Law have not yet been published in the Gazette and are therefore still in draft form and not yet implemented by the Rents Committee.

Lisa Dale, Partner and Head of the Property Department at Al Tamimi & Company provided a general overview of some of the recent laws published and explained how the Mortgage Law covers properties registered on both the Interim Real Estate Register and the Real Estate Register and discussed how default notices are handled, with the whole process taking a maximum of 4 months. She also referred to the regulation of developers and highlighted that "A Developer shall be cancelled from the Register... if he does not commence construction within 6 months of the date he was granted approval to sell off plan without an acceptable excuse..."

*Lisa mentioned two new laws are in the pipeline which will bring further protection to investors and end-users to Dubai's off-plan property market. The first law shall provide that developers must own the land and have completed at least 20 per cent of construction before they can request consent from RERA to sell off plan. The second law says the payment plan must be linked to construction milestones and maximum of 20 per cent of the property price can be taken up front as a deposit. Lisa commented that both laws are currently in draft form but are expected to be published soon.*

http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=74690


----------



## jagmp

U.S. Legal Counsel for Zack Shahin Condemns the United Arab Emirates' Censorship of Web Site Detailing Unjust Arrest and Torture of a U.S. Citizen
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Featured Topics: Barack Obama Presidential Transition To: NATIONAL EDITORS


Contact: Darren Spinck for U.S. Legal Counsel to Zack Shahin, +1-202-669-4418, [email protected]


Shahin's Legal Representation Compares Blocking of www.SaveZackShahin.com to UAE Denying Zack Shahin Access to U.S. Diplomats Following His Arrest in March 2008; "Yet Another Disturbing Action by a Country Hoping to Improve Bilateral Relations with the United States"


WASHINGTON, March 10 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- U.S. legal counsel to Zack Shahin, an American citizen who was violently detained in Dubai, United Arab Emirates on March 23, 2008; tortured and held incommunicado from family and legal counsel for 16 days; and continues to remain unjustly imprisoned nearly a year after what was nothing less than a kidnapping, today condemned the censorship of www.SaveZackShahin.com by the United Arab Emirates government. They issued the following statement, following the censorship of the Save Zack Shahin Web site (www.SaveZackShahin.com) by the United Arab Emirates government:


"It seems as though the truth hurts. As the facts of the unjust arrest and torture of U.S. citizen Zack Shahin comes to light, the government of the United Arab Emirates has become more defensive of their brutal treatment of a United States citizen. The censorship of www.SaveZackShahin.com is yet another disturbing action by a country hoping to improve bilateral relations with the United States. Censoring the truth, in this case, is not much different from UAE's violation of international agreements by denying Zack Shahin access to U.S. diplomats." 


In its 2008 Country Report on Human Rights Practices in United Arab Emirates, the U.S. Department of State reported: "The constitution prohibits torture; however, there were unverifiable allegations of tortured political prisoners during the year... The constitution prohibits arbitrary arrest and detention; however, there were reports that the government held persons in official custody without charge or a preliminary judicial hearing. Current law permits indefinite, routine, incommunicado detention without appeal. Under this procedure the detainee may contact only his or her attorney... Public prosecutors may order detainees to be held as long as 21 days without charge, or longer in some cases with a court order. Courts may not grant an extension of more than 30 days of detention without charge; however, judges may continue to renew 30-day extensions indefinitely and without charge... The constitution provides for an independent judiciary. In practice, however, its decisions remained subject to review by the political leadership. The judiciary was composed largely of contracted foreign nationals potentially subject to deportation The constitution prohibits entry into homes without the owner's permission, except when police present a warrant in accordance with the law; however, there were credible reports that security forces sometimes failed to obtain warrants."


As stated by U.S. Department of State Spokesman Darby Holladay, "As Mr. Shahin approaches one year in jail without formal charges, the embassy and consular general have repeatedly encouraged the Dubai authorities to conduct their investigation in an expeditious and transparent manner, to consider bail for Mr. Shahin and present charges in court so that Mr. Shahin can mount a defense." As reported in the National, "Mr. Holladay also claimed that Mr. Shahin was denied access to U.S. diplomats for two weeks after his March 23, 2008 arrest, in violation, [Holladay] said, of an international agreement which stipulates that authorities must allow a foreign national access to his consulate 'without delay'." At a time the United Arab Emirates hopes for improved bilateral relations with the United States, the authorities in Dubai and Shahin's captors should take note of the U.S. Department of State's comments. 


Zack Shahin, an American citizen and husband and father of two, was a successful CEO in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Shahin's life changed on March 23, 2008, when Dubai security services forcibly detained him in front of his horrified wife and children. For the next 16 days, as his family wondered if he was alive or dead, Shahin was tortured at the hands of his Dubai captors. The violent detention of Zack Shahin was perpetrated in front of Shahin's horrified wife and children. For 16 days, Shahin had no contact with his family who did not know if he was dead or alive and was held incommunicado from legal counsel. After his forcible detainment without an arrest warrant, Shahin's home was ransacked and his personal safebox was searched without a warrant. During his solitary confinement, Shahin was denied food for three days, forced to use a container he found in the garbage can as a toilet, confined to a dark room for 5 days, forced to sign documents in the Arabic language, based on threats against himself, his wife and children, and told his wife would be jailed and his children sent to a shelter if he did not sign documents. Nearly one year later, no charges have been filed against Shahin and his request for bail has been repeatedly denied. Extensions of Shahin's continued detention have been automatically granted without any advance review of his case file by the court. There has been no regard given to Shahin's civil rights, even when addressed by the United States Government through official diplomatic channels.


U.S. Counsel to Zack Shahin are Rebekah Poston, James Jatras, and James Pitts.



James George Jatras, Esq.
Principal
Squire Sanders Public Advocacy, LLC
Office: +1.202.626.6248
Cell and text messages: +1.202.375-1007

CONTACT: Darren Spinck 202-669-4418/[email protected]


SOURCE U.S. Legal Counsel to Zack Shahin


----------



## tehsin123

*Kuwait plans travel-ban for expats with unpaid loans*

Expatriates living in Kuwait could be banned from travelling out of the country unless they can prove they have paid all their debts, it was reported on Tuesday.

The new rule is part of plans being drawn up between the Ministry of Communications (MoC) and the Ministry of Interior, according to a senior official at the MoC in an interview with Kuwait daily Kuwait Times.

The move comes in the wake of an Audit Bureau report that accused the MoC of negligence in collecting debts owed by a number of corporate companies and domestic customers.

Zakariya Mohammed Al Ansari, the head of the MoC’s accounting and commercial services department confirmed to the newspaper that the two ministries were working closely on plans that wold ensure expatriates did not leave the country without repaying their loans.

But he rejected the bureau’s report findings that estimated debts exceeded KD120m ($408m), saying the sum was nearer to KD9m.

The department had collected KD117m in unpaid debts in 2008 alone, as well as 98 percent of the amount owed to the ministry by local embassies, Al Ansari added.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/549137-kuwait-plans-travel-ban-on-expats-with-unpaid-loans


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## Nachkebia

^^
This is so scary hno: last two news posted may indicate to many that now might be an appropriate time to leave, unfortunately.....


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## dbxdude

edited


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## Imre

*DNRD: Dubai outlook is bright *


Dubai: Senior government officials advised business community and residents alike to look into the bright future of the country and stop searching for the dark spots. 

Lieutenant General Mohammad Ahmad Al Merri, Director General of the Dubai Naturalisation and Residency Department (DNRD) told a gathering of foreign businessmen at the American Business Council in Dubai and Northern Emirates that myth about the collapse of the Dubai economy is moving around just because some people tend to look to the future through a bleak vision. 


“What I can say at this moment that the DNRD has cancelled the residency visa of about 44,000 people during the month of February and issued more than 66,000 residency visas in the same month. The same rate of cancellation and issuance in the past months which suggests a significant growth in population and that people coming to stay in Dubai outnumbers those who are leaving the country by 50 per cent. 
“Looking through categories and nationalities, the statistic shows that the number of the US citizen came to reside in Dubai during the same period was 999 citizens, while those who cancelled their visas were just 478 people,” he said.

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Immigration_and_Visas/10293754.html


----------



## dbxdude

Nachkebia said:


> ^^
> This is so scary hno: last two news posted may indicate to many that now might be an appropriate time to leave, unfortunately.....


No. Not really. That guy really upset someone....


----------



## Imre

Press release
For immediate publication 11 March 2008

*Dubai said to emerge stronger from property crisis*

*New regulations seen as key to recovery by participants in open debate on challenges facing Dubai real estate market*

Dubai’s property market has taken a beating but could emerge from the economic crisis stronger and more transparent, leading legal and financial experts said today (Wednesday 11 March 2009).

They were taking part in the Cityscape Connect business breakfast ahead of Cityscape Dubai from 5 to 8 October 2009 at the Dubai International Exhibition and Convention Centre. Attended by more than 150 property executives, legal advisers and investors, the business breakfast was called to explore the challenges facing the Dubai real estate market. 

The “not for profit” Cityscape Connect initiative has been introduced to stimulate networking, transparency and open debate on the key issues affecting the Dubai real estate industry which has dramatically changed market dynamics and growth prospects.

Lisa Dale, a partner in legal firm Al Tamimi & Company, summed up: “As we come out on the other side of the economic troubles we are in at the moment, Dubai will have a more regulated and much more transparent real estate system.”

New laws and regulations, both at Dubai government and at federal level, will emerge in the coming few months establishing more clearly the rights of property owners, she added. In addition, the Dubai Land Department is developing one of the most sophisticated and transparent online property transaction systems.

“These things are going on now and will come into effect in the next few months,” Dale said. “As we emerge, Dubai will have a more regulated and transparent jurisdiction than now.” Sohail Zubairi, CEO of Dar Al Sharia Legal and Financial Consultancy, agreed saying Dubai would emerge much stronger “if we regulate ourselves properly.”

Barmak Besharaty, Managing Director of Almas Capital, pointed to property speculation and reliance on off-plan sales as one of the main reasons for the problems in the Dubai market. Nevertheless he was bullish on the longer term prospects. 

He said “Dubai will become a better place to live” when the price of property and levels of rent fell to levels affordable for the vast bulk of the population living and working in the UAE. That had not been the case in property price boom on recent years.

“As the largest event of its kind in the world, it is crucial in these times of economic uncertainty that Cityscape Dubai leads by example,” said Rohan Marwaha, Managing Director of the Cityscape series.

“While there is a slowdown in the market, there remains a substantial growth pattern across most of the region – which is something many other parts of the world will struggle to achieve. On a regional and global level, it will be those companies that carefully plan in the down market which will recover fastest and further post-recession.”

Cityscape Dubai, now in its eighth year, is established as the largest business-to-business real estate investment and development event in the world and last year drew a record of more than 70,000 visitors over four days.

Cityscape Dubai is also the flagship event of a brand developed in Dubai that has achieved international recognition and success. Cityscape events are held in Singapore, Abu Dhabi, New York, Mumbai, Moscow, Saudi Arabia and Latin America. Cityscape Dubai attracts regional and international investors, property developers, governmental and development authorities, leading architects, designers, consultants and senior professionals involved in the property industry.


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## abf

*Scaremongering*

Scare mongering is not a new phenomenon. It has always existed. Dubai is here to stay like it or not


----------



## Naz UK

Oh, I see. Well that's ok then. I'm coming back to Dubai tomorrow. I need a 3 bedroom villa to rent. F**k it. I'll buy. Everything's gona be alright now that the DNRD and Cityscape have spoken. :banana:


----------



## Imre

mackie1964 said:


> OK
> 
> Spent the last few days visiting Dubai and talking to developers(including SG), suppliers, hotel managers, hotel workers (including the most informative valet parking attendances), Sail club managers and workers, a few successful businessmen, a few friends that live in Dubai full time, Banks and building Managers. There are many negatives and very few positives and I shall start with the bad news first. Please remember that I am a great supporter of Dubai as I love the place and hope to move there permanently in the very near future. Please also note that these are just my views and are not meant to offend or influence anyone.
> 
> Let me start with Dubai in General and let me tell you that it is with a heavy heart that I have to report that the whole place is totally f***d at the moment, total freeze and in a free fall and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Confidence is evaporating and the big guy is too quite and needs to get of his Royal A$$ and say something to give people some confidence. His silence is making the situation much worse and giving room for too many rumours. He is currently drunk on poetry hno:
> 
> Forget about the silly banter about prices per sqft. If you have cash, you can buy at silly prices, well below the original prices in many cases and in the best locations.
> 
> The government owe too much money to many companies including one of my best friends who he can not pay his suppliers and at risk of going bust because the government is not paying him.
> 
> The police compounds are full of thousands of cars that have been dumped, seen them by my own eyes and the Marinas are full of boats that owned by the bank. The banks do not know what to do with the properties, boats, cars….etc of the defaulters and the lack of established laws, systems and procedures are causing this total freeze and what is worth is no body is allowed or willing to talk about it publicly, only friends amongst themselves are discussing these issues.
> 
> Many developers are not continuing with their buildings and very few developers will survive. Not many developers are able to pay the bills.
> 
> Plenty of cheap unskilled labour available for developers that have money and willing to spend.
> 
> Buildings are full of tenants that have lost their jobs and are just waiting for the lease to finish or their kids to finish the school year/term…etc to return home.
> 
> The most worrying thing for me are the hotels, how empty they are, how expensive they still are, how empty the beaches are on daily basis (except for weekends) and the number of hotels that closed complete wings. Including the big hotel that mothballed nearly 700 rooms. The hotels by the beach are near empty and yet the figures / statistics are manipulated by the government.
> 
> On the weekend I saw the Walk and Marina walk busy but you can count the tourist on your hand despite the attraction. I was pleased to see so many locals out enjoying themselves eating and not just showing their cars off in large group, never saw that kind of numbers in the UAE before and especially groups of local ladies. Still I was concerned that there were hardly any tourists.
> 
> Am I worried? Yes Very, if the investor’s confidence level reaches the point of no return. I am not only talking about real estate, I am talking about investment in Dubai in General.
> 
> Would I still invest in Dubai? Yes I would, especially at these current falling prices.
> 
> Do I think Dubai will recover soon? No, this is a long term investment for me. This place will take years to recover.
> 
> Will do some work and will be back with some more and much more about DS/SG (Positives and negatives). :cheers: Yes there are some positives to look forward too.
> 
> You may wonder, what has the above got to do with the developments, this will become clear next time I log on.


Mackie back


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## speculator

Naz UK said:


> No more than 4 units before you drive, which is about a pint and a half of beer/lager or 2 glasses of wine. That translates to within the legal limit, which is 80mgs of alcohol per 100 mgs of blood. There you go.


Got it thanks. :cheers::cheers::cheers:


----------



## Imre

*Real estate agents now forced into illegal taxi driving across Dubai to earn an income*


Wednesday, 11 March 2009 - 3:40 PM SL Time 


Real estate agents are being forced to run illegal taxi services as Dubai`s property slump gets worse and their income dries up. Two real estate agents told 7DAYS that they have been forced into the trade to provide for their families and said numerous colleagues are doing the same. One former estate agent, Amir, from Pakistan, said he owes more than dhs300,000 to banks and credit card companies and that two of his cheques recently bounced as he is no longer able to earn commission on selling property across the emirate. 

He said several of his colleagues have also been forced into the unofficial taxi business to survive. I am basically bankrupt. Everything I put into the business is gone. I`ve sent my wife back to her home country because I can no longer afford to provide for her, he said. People in real estate have good personalities and good marketing skills, which is good in the taxi trade. I would love to drop everything and go to my own country but I feel obliged to pay off my debt. I am not going to run away, he added. I only go to areas where there is poor taxi service and people are waiting a long time. It is not greed, it is absolute necessity that I do this, he said. 

Another taxi driver approached a 7DAYS reporter outside a major Bur Dubai supermarket and asked if he needed a taxi. Whatever you pay normally, that is good for me, he said. He said he had been in the real estate business for five years, selling both apartments and villas. Recent reports have indicated that property prices in some areas of Dubai have decreased by as much as 50 per cent since their peak in 2007. Real estate agencies have let scores of staff go as a result of the difficult trading conditions. The driver added: My love is for real estate. It was a very nice business but I have three children and a lot of debt. 

I don`t like driving the car but I love my children, he said. There is no more work here for me or my colleagues. Peyman Younes Parham, the director of corporate communication for the Roads & Transport Authority, said that the overall number of illegal taxis is decreasing after a high profile public campaign last year. There was a problem in high density areas, such as the souks, but we`ve sent a lot of inspectors in and they have cleared up the problem. The fines are high. It`s just not worth it, he said. The RTA warned people not to use illegal taxis because passengers are not insured in the event of an accident. Illegal taxi drivers also face fines of up to dhs10,000 and deportation if they are caught.

http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2009/3/40755_space.html

:lol:


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## Freestyler

imo, 2009 will be very bad.


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## Naz UK

Why am I finding it very hard to feel sorry for these real estate agents?.. it's weird, some force seems to be stopping me from shedding any tears for them. Very strange. Anyway, I hope their "good personalities and skills" come in handy, (not that they're gona have to use them much as taxi drivers in Dubai) when they're busy trying to convince the police they shouldn't be sent to prison for defaults.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Empty buildings and hotel rooms in Dubai
Wednesday, 11 March 2009

Empty office space in Dubai has doubled to 16% in the past six months, according to Jones Lang LaSalle, the property and investment firm.

In its February 2009 “Dubai City profile – A Review of the Dubai Property Market”, new research shows that vacancies in Dubai’s office market are at the highest rate ever recorded.

The report states: “The turmoil in the global economy is continuing to cause volatility and uncertainty in the Dubai real estate market. The major economic influences on the market include the significant slowing of economic activity, falling employment levels and a severe tightening of credit.”

An additional 4.7 million square ft of office space was released into the market in the second half of 2008, bringing the total stock to approximately 29.5m square ft; an increase of almost 20% over six months.

Projects completed within this period include The Galleries at Jebel Ali, Cayan Business Centre, Executive Heights, Grosvenor Business Tower within TECOM, the Reef, HDS, Tamweel and Silver Towers at Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT).

Looking to the future, the report also reveals that “more than 50% of the announced residential and commercial projects due for completion between 2009 and 2012 have now been either put on hold or cancelled. This reflects the lack of available funding and projections of declining population along with continuing job cuts.”

Furthermore, the hospitality market reports the lowest occupancy rate in five years with an average of 79%. This has been brought about by declining visitor arrivals and the release of new rooms into the market.

Over the second half of 2008, approximately 3,245 new rooms were added to the stock of quality hotel rooms in Dubai, with the largest completion being the Atlantis hotel on Palm Jumeirah. This brings the total to approximately 40,000 rooms.


----------



## Imre

*Emirates to reduce China flights *


Dubai: Emirates will reduce its services on the Beijing and Shanghai routes to ensure "the best utilisation of our aircraft fleet".

From March 29, the airline will not operate its EK 304 and EK 305 Dubai-Shanghai-Dubai flights on Tuesdays and EK 308 and EK309 Dubai-Beijing-Dubai services on Sundays.

Starting July, the same services will not operate on Mondays and Thursdays respectively, an Emirates spokesperson told Gulf News.


http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Aviation/10293679.html


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## luluprovence

-----------------


----------



## jagmp

:cheers1::carrot::grouphug::wave:


----------



## i love dubai

Cayman said:


> I am sorry to be persistent, but about 1-2 months ago, there was a new law / decree or an interpretation of an existing one that clearly stated the payments MUST be in line with the progress of construction.
> 
> That's the specific one I am looking for.
> 
> Can anyone remember the details?


I went to RERA last month, showed them my contract, they told me not to make any further payments. I told them that I was concerned that I might lose my apartment, they said not to worry, the developer can only do that through RERA. I asked about linking the payment with the progress, and their reply was that next month they will release a list of buildings that are being built in Dubai, with details of progress for each building and instructions on how much the investor should pay based on the progress.
I asked them for a letter and they gave me one which I will post.


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## speculator

^^^^^^

Yeah that makes real sense. Thanks .


----------



## speculator

Some interesting and worrying news from over the pond

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1161317/House-prices-drop-55-leave-Britain-bankrupt.html


----------



## IISinbadII

mackie1964 said:


> The police compounds are full of thousands of cars that have been dumped, seen them by my own eyes.....


*smussuw*, have you seen those cars?


----------



## Imre

dont worry we are talking about only 11 cars


----------



## Imre

*Property prices need to fall to mid-income *



Dubai: Mortgages will become much easier to obtain in Dubai when property prices fall to mid-income levels, a panel of financial experts said Wednesday.

Unsurprisingly, there have been far fewer applications from potential buyers for mortgages in recent weeks and months.

Property prices are now falling across Dubai, opening up channels of hope for those who had previously been outpriced, but heavy mortgage requirements and hefty deposits are keeping them at arm's length.

"Dubai will be a better place to live once families can afford to rent or buy, which I think will happen. Mortgages will come back when real estate assets align with the medium income of the country," Barmak Besharaty, managing director, Almas Capital, said during a Cityscape networking forum yesterday. 

Until a few months ago, property in Dubai was only targeted at the wealthy. 

"Real estate asset prices had gone up astronomically compared with incomes. A lot of developers were offering a luxury lifestyle that was out of reach of the majority of the population. So is lending an issue? Yes," Besharaty said.

Developers were pushing up prices of their properties in line with market forces and speculators were flipping their units to try and make money.

"Greed brought the whole system down," Sohail Zubairi, chief executive of Dar Al Sharia Legal and Financial Consultancy, said. To get a decent mortgage in Dubai now, it helps if you are free from car loans and personal loans, have at least Dh300,000 waiting in a bank account as a handy deposit and, ideally, you'd be on a huge salary.

However, the average mid-income person has at least one loan, usually for a car, and possibly does not have hundreds of thousands of dirhams floating about in their bank account.

The current rates being offered are not attractive to prospective buyers.

"(A mortgage at) 60 per cent loan to value ratio at nine per cent& No one in their right mind would borrow at nine per cent. 

"One of the key elements of this region is the support of government intervention. This government support lifts up credit worthiness," Khalid Howladar, senior credit officer at Moody's, said.

There is no need even for developers to have to build new housing developments especially aimed at mid-income earners as many developments in Dubai have been branded 'luxury' but in fact fall within the mid-income bracket.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10293944.html


----------



## Imre

*Deyaar open to merger options *


Dubai: Dubai-based property developer Deyaar Wedensday said that it might head towards consolidation, according to its chief executive. 

Markus Giebel said, "It's all about stabilising customer base right now and not about selling," adding that mergers should follow. He did not specify a potential partner but said that the company had not started any merger talks. 

The announcement comes at a time of circulating rumours of other developers that might be consolidating. 

During a gathering of experts from various sectors speaking on the local impact of the global economic recession, Giebel said that 80 per cent of mergers during good economic times loose value in the long-term but the same percentage benefit from the move if undertaken during a financial downturn. 

He said the developer has not had any defaulters as yet due to client assistance with payment schedules, and the default ratio would be delayed. 

"If you adjust your strategy, you can retain all of customer base," he said. 

Giebel also said that people who own a property in the UAE, should be allowed to stay in the country.

Contracts are being renegotiated between developers and master developers and Giebel said that there is flexibility in the market now that did not exist two months ago.

It earlier announced that it would put 25 per cent of projects on hold and have flexible repayment plans for its customers. 

According to the developer, its six projects will be delivered in 2009, of which nearly 80 per cent are already completed. These projects constitute a total of 2,500 units. No new projects are likely to be announced.

While local property market suffers from low liquidity and falling prices, the developer is looking to Saudi Arabia for possible housing projects.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10293989.html


----------



## Imre

*Deyaar to refund 100% on certain projects *


Shuchita Kapur on Thursday, March 12, 2009 

Developer Deyaar is to give 100 per cent refund to customers who have invested in certain projects, CEO Markus Giebel has revealed.

"We are planning to give money back to our customers, 100 per cent for a couple of projects and some incentives for some other ones," he told Emirates Business.

Giebel did not disclose details of the plans and said everything would be revealed next week.

"I'll give you all the details on Tuesday – the names of the projects, the number, pricing adjustments and everything that you require," he added.

And he said it was possible that Deyaar would consider merging with another company.

"We are not in talks with anybody right now but if it makes sense for our shareholders, the country and Dubai then we will investigate such a move."

But he said the company had no plans to increase its capital base.

"We have close to no debt, we have enough capital right now and our cash flow is steady."

Giebel said the development sector had to become more customer-focused. "The sector has many challenges to face to become customer-centric. It is not an easy job. It may take six to 12 months for an entity to become fully customer-centric from not being at all in the beginning.

"Earlier we did not talk to customers when we signed out subscription forms but I believe you have to know your customers and to achieve that the soul of a company has to be changed. We believe this, and giving money back to our customers is a part of it."

http://www.business24-7.ae/articles/2009/3/pages/03122009_e2b2f766b52541d99791c49813c2fa30.aspx


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## 234sale

We heard last year "no afforable properties",, now go to IC or DG... 
Plenty of affordablitiy....


----------



## smussuw

^^ still very expensive to rent for the majority.....



IISinbadII said:


> *smussuw*, have you seen those cars?


I have no idea but how does he know that those are cars dumped because of the crisis and not because they had police fines?


----------



## mrobbie

if there are more than 11 cars, they must be there as a result of police fines, obviously.


----------



## dbxdude

*Steps from a Developer who wants to still be operating after the Crisis. Welldone!*

Deyaar to refund 100% on certain projects 

(EB FILE)


By
Shuchita Kapur on Thursday, March 12, 2009

Developer Deyaar is to give 100 per cent refund to customers who have invested in certain projects, CEO Markus Giebel has revealed.

"We are planning to give money back to our customers, 100 per cent for a couple of projects and some incentives for some other ones," he toldEmirates Business.

Giebel did not disclose details of the plans and said everything would be revealed next week.

"I'll give you all the details on Tuesday – the names of the projects, the number, pricing adjustments and everything that you require," he added.

And he said it was possible that Deyaar would consider merging with another company.

"We are not in talks with anybody right now but if it makes sense for our shareholders, the country and Dubai then we will investigate such a move."

But he said the company had no plans to increase its capital base.

"We have close to no debt, we have enough capital right now and our cash flow is steady."

Giebel said the development sector had to become more customer-focused. "The sector has many challenges to face to become customer-centric. It is not an easy job. It may take six to 12 months for an entity to become fully customer-centric from not being at all in the beginning.

"Earlier we did not talk to customers when we signed out subscription forms but I believe you have to know your customers and to achieve that the soul of a company has to be changed. We believe this, and giving money back to our customers is a part of it."


----------



## tehsin123

*08:28 12Mar09 -UAE'S EMAAR PROPERTIES <EMAR.DU> SAYS POSTPONING ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING, NO REASON GIVEN -STATEMENT *

08:33 12Mar09 -Dubai's Emaar says postponing AGM, no reason given
DUBAI, March 12 (Reuters) - Dubai's Emaar Properties <EMAR.DU> said in a statement on Thursday that it had postponed its annual general meeting. 
The statement provided by Dubai Financial Market did not say when the meeting would be held or why it was delayed. 
(Reporting by Andrew Hammond) 
Thursday, 12 March 2009 08:28:35RTRS [nLC478270 ] {C}ENDS


----------



## Maha

luluprovence said:


> mr robbie; peacesells; i will be back with some working notes on how even AED4/- or even AED 2/- is expensive given warranty et al for the first year. hopefully; it will raise awareness on the kind of money that is being raised by the developers.
> 
> *edited to add the calculations*
> abbreviations explained
> sfpf: sq. f. p. floor
> sfeb: sq. f. entire bldg
> nf: no. o. floors
> scr: svs. chg. rate
> aspe: avg. sal. per. employee
> wn: working note
> a: assumption
> 
> *wn 1:*
> sfpf x nf = sfeb
> for example
> 10,000x 40 = 400,000 ---(1)
> 
> *wn 2:*
> multiply (1) by scr
> for example
> 400,000 x (scr:8) = 3,200,000 i.e. AED 3.2mio!!! ---(2)
> 
> *wn 3:*
> *a*i: let us assume that the aspe is AED 1,500/- p.m.
> so annually i.e. AED 1500x12 = AED 18k p.a. --- (3)
> 
> therefore this means THAT:
> *wn 4:*
> we divide (2)by(3) to arrive at the number of potential employees which means
> AED 3.2 mio (2) divided by AED 18k (3) to arrive at 177 employees --- (4)
> 
> *wn 5:*
> the point is that there is no way 177 employees are required for the first 3Y's; this might be so after 5Y's so even if the developer does require (4) after 5Y's then it is easy to arrive at the FACT that
> -given the annual Y (2)
> - and the number of employees (4) the developer now makes:
> AED 3.2 mio (minus) (AED 18kx177employees = 3186000) = AED 14,000 precisely. ---(5)
> 
> *the above notes explain the non-existing need for 177 employees in the first year absolutely because we all have the first year warranty as being 'absolute'*
> 
> now this will put the *cat among the pidgeons*
> 
> Y1: costs based on assumptions of course
> security team
> 12 employees x (AED 1200x12) = AED 172800 --- (A)
> filters - mechanical
> 6 employees x (AED1500x12) = AED 108,000 --- (B)
> electricals
> 6 employees x (AED1500x12) = AED 108,000 --- (C)
> painters
> 4 employees x (AED 1200x12) = AED 57,600 --- (D)
> plaster men / repair workers
> 4 employees x (AED 1500x12) = AED 72,000 --- (E)
> pool attendant / spa - jacuzzi attendant
> 4 employees x (AED 1200x12) = AED 57,600 --- (F)
> cleaners
> 10 employees x (AED 1000x12) = AED 120,000 --- (F)
> __
> 46 = TOT no. of emps.
> AED 696k = TOT costs (A) through to (F) --- *(one)*
> *(add to this)*
> consumables [for instance light bulbs/ broken doors / handles / etc]=AED 124k
> 
> therefore, AED 696k + AED 124k = AED 820k *(two)*
> *(add to this)*
> profit / overheads 40% of *(two)* = AED 328k *(three)*
> 
> GRAND TOTAL COST OF from *(two)*, *(three)* = AED 1,148,000 *(four)*
> 
> 
> so therefore; divide this GRAND TOTAL COST by the number of sfpf which was --- (1) from wn 1
> and you get *(four)* {divided by} *(1)* which is AED 1,148,000 [GRAND TOTAL COST]/ 400,000 [sfeb]
> 
> to give you a SCR of AED 2.87psf as opposed to what is currently being demanded.
> 
> so this should give you a rough template to work out Y2, Y3 with a change in variables etc.




:lol::lol::lol::lol:

:rofl:

For a moment there I thought you were serious.


----------



## luluprovence

--------------------


----------



## tehsin123

*11:05 12Mar09 RTRS-DUBAI DEPT OF FINANCE DIRECTOR-GENERAL SAYS REAL ESTATE SECTOR BEEN HIT, TO TAKE MUCH TIME TO RECOVER*

11:27 12Mar09 RTRS-Dubai property recovery seen taking some time
DUBAI, March 12 (Reuters) -Dubai's real estate sector has been hit hard by the financial crisis and will take time to recover, the director-general of Dubai's finance department said on Thursday. 
"We are speaking with real estate companies not just to help them pay their debt but helping them to get necessary liquidity. It will take some time for it to recover," Nasser al-Shaikh said at a conference in Dubai. 
The emirate's once-booming property market has suffered a sharp correction in prices and developers are cancelling or postponing major projects.


----------



## Maha

luluprovence said:


> ^^
> feel free to put down your own calculations. :lol::lol::lol:
> my head is still in a tizz so the roll over dizzy icons are a no go for me. :hilarious


Well, to start with, the master developer of whatever development the building is in we require the developer to pay not less than Dhs. 3 psf., that is 75% of the Dhs. 4 psf that you thought was too much.

Second, lets just look at the workforce. You do not hire labor alone; you also hire a building manager and at least an accountant; these guys take way more than your assumed 1,500. A 40 storey building needs at least one cleaner for every 10 floors if you wanted it to be decent (naturally, they will also be working on the lobby, the service rooms and parking garages in the basement). You can't have them working 24 hours a day so you need at least double the number (if they work 12 hour shifts) but more logically it should be tripple the number. Plus, you need security gaurds. I'd say you need at least 20 to 25 labour and guards.

Moreover, if each one of these people takes only 1,000 per month (take home pay), he would cost the developer, in reality, not less than 3,000 to 3,500 because he has to pay for accommodation, transportation, at least two meals a day, residency costs, labor card costs, health card costs and a ticket to the home country every two years. That means somewere between 36 to 42K per year + about 55 to 60K for the accountant and 75 to 80K for the manager (at least).

Third, he needs to pay the electricity bills for the public spaces, the water bills for cleaning, cleaning equipment and materials, office supplies and other office costs, the telephone bills for the telephone at the reception and mobile phones of his personnel, if there's a gym and/or swimming pool he'd have to run it; if he has shops on the ground floor he'd have to run them (as the building manager) as well as other administrative costs for issuing NOC's for their fit-outs...etc.

Fourth, he has additional expenses for registering the units within the building - even if you do not calculate the Land Department fees, there are still administrative costs, including but not limited to, hiring a private surveying firm to survey the building areas for the LD.

Fifth, despite the "maintenance period" by the contractor, he still has to pay for maintenance because not everything is covered. Examples: DEWA and Etisalat/Du's related maintenance are not part of the scope of works of the contractor and he does not even install them, that is done by DEWA/Etisalat/Du, they charge you for EVERYTHING, a kid scribbles with his crayons all over the wall and disappears (so you don't know who it was) is not part of the scope of works for the contractor either - the developer will have to paint it himself. The contractor is only around for defects, and trust me, he does not want to even mend those.

Sixth, consumables; 124K? Where on earth did you get that number from? We are talking about 40 stories plust at least 3 basements and a ground floor = that means at least 160 families (assuming you have large apartments). I don't know how much, but 10K per month sounds too little.

Seventh, he has overhead expenses from the head office; the people in the building are not the only ones working for this building.

Eighth, he needs to make a profit. Or else, why would he be doing this anyway? I mean, he can just tell the unit owners that he sold them the building and it's their responsibility now and just walk away - usually, FM companies charge around 15% of the costs for their own profit, I'd assume he would do the same.

---------

I may have missed a few things, but looking at all that, I'd say that the above all means that you are looking at a service fee of not less than 20 psf.


That's how I see it.

If, on the other hand, you think you can manage with two dozen workers at 1200 per month; then be my guest, by all means.


----------



## Naz UK

speculator said:


> Some interesting and worrying news from over the pond
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1161317/House-prices-drop-55-leave-Britain-bankrupt.html


Great news! Might purchase a few more 2-bed terraced houses up north when it happens! :cheers:


----------



## Freestyler

BenjiDXB said:


> does anybody believe that the market has bottomed out or is about to do so ? Any opinions ?


It is difficult to assess, but there are positive indicators.


----------



## Rob Timpie

frankie100 said:


> I went thru the MD's of Memons article in the paper. I think he is living on a different planet. I am think he knows more then Emaar, Nakheel and the big think tanks of IMF thats the reason he would say all will be well in 8-12 months. Why does he say when ONE of his project will be ready ????



Think IMF has been living on another planet last years... As costs are getting down I think a lot of projects will get a boost in the next couple of months. 
I beleive Memon is right on this one. Just be patient and see what happens... :cheers:


----------



## Bimcnorth

BenjiDXB said:


> does anybody believe that the market has bottomed out or is about to do so ? Any opinions ?


At a guess I´d say that the market will bottom out this summer if only because at that point mortgage loans will be made available from the new entities that Abu Dhabi have funded.


----------



## Imre

BenjiDXB said:


> does anybody believe that the market has bottomed out or is about to do so ? Any opinions ?


experts said after the Ramadan and Cityscape would be better, but which year?

:lol:


----------



## Imre

*Unified UAE laws must to draw investors *



Harmonising real estate regulatory laws across the UAE would attract global investors and increase transparency, according to a real estate investment and development information network.

"Common regulations across all the emirates would definitely benefit the country as they would make it easy for international investors to invest here," Ahmet Kayhan, CEO of Reidin.com, told Emirates Business in an exclusive interview.

"This would help to bring a number of international investors into this part of the world and create more transparency in the country. Owing to the federal nature of the UAE it is understandable that every emirate has its own set of rules. However, common regulations are possible and would be beneficial," he said.


How does Dubai stand in terms of transparency?

There are two kinds of transparency, legislative and technical. From a legislative perspective Dubai, especially after the setting up of Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), has become one of the top three transparent markets in the world. On the technical transparency level, again after the setting up of Rera, Dubai is one of the top five markets. Technical details such as how many projects have been launched and the progress that has been made on construction are updated on Rera's website. Abu Dhabi, as well, is trying to create a transparent atmosphere and is seeing this time of crisis as an opportunity to focus on that aspect and fill in the gaps in the real estate sector.

Are real estate companies in the UAE transparent when it comes to giving data? How much trouble do you have collecting data?

Not all real estate companies in the UAE are transparent and the market is challenging at the moment. In Dubai there is a strong need for statistical indices. At the federal level an agreement has been signed with a Swedish institute to put all the know-how in place and the government is already putting a team together to set up the structure. Reidin.com is an online information service that is dedicated to meeting the requirements of real estate professionals interested in developing economies. We currently offer three information products: REBIS, or Real Estate Business Information Service in conjunction with Rera, DUBAIFocus in conjunction with Dubai Land Department, and INDEXFocus in conjunction with an automated valuation model developed in-house.

Why is Dubai ranked so high for transparency?

In any country where there is no tax system, corporations, institutions and individuals do not feel an urgent need to be transparent. When you consider Eastern European countries, which have tax systems, they have 100-year-old statistical data. But Asian countries, except for China which has a socialist system, do not have proper data and statistical information systems.

What makes Dubai transparent from a global perspective?

Dubai, from a registration perspective, is very transparent. For example, Rera's website, rpdubai.com, is always updated and is also very transparent.

Are properties in Dubai and the rest of the UAE selling at 'fair value' or have they fallen below it?

I do not believe that in real estate there is any fair value. Fair value comes into play when supply meets demand. The value of prices in Dubai was never fair and was mostly overpriced. Right now real estate prices are down to 2006 levels. You can see sales prices going down on a monthly basis. Rent costs, however, have been more stable. Although real estate prices are down the rental yield is going up. It is time for the occupiers, the real estate professionals who rent properties, to invest in real estate as there is a huge opportunity at the moment.

Has inflation and global recession affected the local and regional real estate sector? How far do you believe it will affect the industry in 2009?

There are two kinds of inflation, demand inflation and supply inflation. Demand inflation is when you have more money in the market and more people so prices are going up, similar to what we saw in Dubai up to mid-2008. Supply inflation can come from factors such as high commodity prices, construction prices, building material prices, etc. Essentially inflation is not a bad thing if it is driven by rises in property prices, which is good for longer-term market values. In that respect, inflation and the global recession will have an impact on the real estate sector. For 2009, if you consider real estate prices as the biggest driver of inflation in Dubai, then inflation is expected to drop, especially as we are seeing the cost of food, construction materials and oil all going down.

What is the total value of projects launched in the UAE last year?

According to the data we have collected, the total value of projects launched in 2008, including projects awarded, projects under construction, projects on hold and those at the design, execution and planning stages, is $218 billion [Dh800bn]. The total value of projects executed in 2008 was $35bn.

Do you believe this will be a year of mergers and acquisitions?

This year will definitely see mergers and acquisitions. According to a study we conducted, the UAE is in the tier three category. This means the market is small for the number of players it carries. From that perspective there will definitely be mergers.

Rent or buy, which would you recommend in view of today's market conditions?

For investment purposes I would definitely recommend waiting until the end of the first quarter before making a decision. For living purposes there is a huge opportunity to buy, especially in those areas where prices have dropped considerably. If rents go down there will be increased competitiveness in the market and a certain balance of supply and demand.

Will Dubai see a second boom in the property sector this year?

A second boom can be expected to start just after September and the sector will definitely come back strongly as the emirate and the Gulf have attracted huge amounts of wealth. We have seen countries such as India, Iran and Saudi Arabia recording strong gross domestic product growths. These countries have seen income levels going up considerably in the past three to four years. This will happen in Dubai as well, we will definitely see the sector surge once again. Dubai is a small market and the demand around this area is too big. Dubai is an interesting market that has a lot of international elements attached to it.

The Eibor rate has fallen but mortgage rates remain high. Do you see them falling this year?

Interest rates continue to be high in the market as the UAE Central Bank wants to make sure there is enough liquidity in the banks. The cost of lending is higher for the banks today because of the risk factor so interest rates are not going down. Most borrowers took out mortgages with high loan-to-value ratios and that is why the risk is high.


http://www.business24-7.ae/articles/2009/3/pages/03152009_7da0ddc62250478f940477c35c376de7.aspx


----------



## Imre

*We estimate construction prices to drop 20% in 2009 *


Arabian Construction Company (ACC) says it is bidding for new projects worth about Dh8 billion and has enough work to take it through until 2012.

The company says it has registered significant growth during the past few years and had to restrain itself and also warns that the forecast for 2009 will be less optimistic compared to previous years.

Wassim Merhebi, Executive Director at ACC, recently spoke to Emirates Business and explained about the company's strategy for the future, its recent expansion and the state of the construction industry in the region.


Could you elaborate on the company's performance during the recent years?

During the past few years, ACC has been growing at 50 per cent year on year. Since 2005, we have been restraining our growth, otherwise we could have grown by about 100 per cent year on year, which is definitely not healthy.

In terms of our bottom line, we took on projects that were quite profitable. Most are on track so we do not anticipate any problems.

How do you see 2009? 

Like any organisation, we are looking at substantial growth. But we don't see it happening in 2009. The whole industry depends on financing. We are all aware of the liquidity situation in the banking sector and the general lack of confidence. Even when projects are managing to get finance, it has become very expensive.

The downside is the return to competitive bidding, which is globally recognised as the least preferred method of awarding a contract.

However, when it comes to work in hand, we have enough to take us until 2012. Last October, we were awarded the construction contract for Lamar Towers in Jeddah and are in the process of mobilisation. We are also involved in several projects in Qatar. We are negotiating with several clients in Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Qatar. The overall value of projects we are negotiating and bidding for at present range from about Dh2bn to Dh8bn. If they all materialise, we will be in excellent shape and are not looking at downsizing till 2012.

Do you plan to move into new markets?

2008 was very successful for ACC – we secured our first project in 20 years in Saudi Arabia. We are quite optimistic about that market since it is the largest in the region and the population growth is phenomenal, which translates into a large demand for housing and infrastructure. Else, we have always had a strong presence in the UAE and Qatar. Our other markets include Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. We believe these markets might slow down too. 

However, Iraq could be promising and we are currently involved with a few projects in the Kurdistan area. The focus would be towards southern Iraq this coming year.

Are there any advantages in building now?

There is a significant cost advantage but it depends on the location. In Abu Dhabi, demand still outstrips the supply by several times. Rebar prices have dropped. So have all steel products, aluminium and other commodities. 

We further anticipate readymix concrete and cement prices to fall towards the third quarter of 2009.

At present, due to the ongoing projects, the demand for cement is stable. Whereas once these projects are handed over, we will see overcapacity of cement in the regional and global markets. And this coupled with undersupply will bring down prices. We estimate the construction prices to drop by around 20 per cent by the end of 2009. 

Can we expect the same phenomenon across the GCC?

So far, it has been cheaper to build in Saudi Arabia, especially, when it comes to low-cost construction. Generally speaking, there has been major investments in the manufacturing sector in Saudi. Furthermore, Saudi is very rich in minerals and raw materials and hence do not have to rely on imports. This is why Saudi is self-sufficient in terms of construction industry or in terms of supplies. 

When we are referring to high-rise and luxury projects, there isn't really a benchmark because it is only Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Qatar which have tackled this type of market. So the prices are pretty much the same. 

Do the contractors stand to gain?

The contractor does not stand to gain when construction costs go down. A vast majority of projects were signed before material prices started rallying last year and contractors are basically averaging down to return to their original cost structure. On the human resource side, we are freer to choose the better resources available in the market. 

Is it true that most developers are in the process of renegotiating contracts that were finalised?

As far as ACC is concerned we are very much open to workable solutions and have expressed it to our clients. We have to try and get the best prices and are always revisiting the subcontractors' prices to see where we can get the best deals.

But in certain instances we have seen certain developers terminating contracts just for the sake of re-tendering it and bringing a new cheaper contractor on board. We personally feel it is highly unethical because when you enter into a contract it is a contract that binds both parties.

Have you been affected by this situation?

None of our projects so far have gone for re-tendering. But the market is very dynamic so you never know what tomorrow holds. 


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/3/Pages/03152009_4e49d5925a514f949ce9ce67a6571bbe.aspx


----------



## Arno Salzl

Imre said:


> *
> How does Dubai stand in terms of transparency?
> 
> There are two kinds of transparency, legislative and technical. From a legislative perspective Dubai, especially after the setting up of Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), has become one of the top three transparent markets in the world. On the technical transparency level, again after the setting up of Rera, Dubai is one of the top five markets. Technical details such as how many projects have been launched and the progress that has been made on construction are updated on Rera's website.
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/articles/2009/3/pages/03152009_7da0ddc62250478f940477c35c376de7.aspx*


*

According to the Wordbank's ranking, (http://www.doingbusiness.org//economyrankings/), UAE ranks 46 (of 181 countries) in the general ranking of business environment, 113 when it comes to investor's protection and 145 for enforcing contracts.^^*


----------



## frankie100

Where is this well of "BOOST" that you plan on drink from ?? please give some to Memon and RUFI ..they need it. No offence Rob, but buyers don't need more speculations as we have suffered enough with these so called speculations.WE need REALITY and these developers needs a REALITY CHECK !!!


----------



## shiraj_hoque

I'm sure all of you have heard whats going on with BMG and the CUBE. Just wonder if we can pressure Memon to pass over savings to Investors like some other developers.

I got an email from Memon stating that they dont cancel projects or delay them to save on construction costs so we will have to keep an eye on this.


----------



## ebony007

*A Fajer Properties the Truth ?*



DynastyZarooni said:


> FOR THE ATTENTION OF JUNIOR MEMBER : rohitd (aka: Rohit Dadakar)
> The nature of the blog comments which you have posted regarding our company have been brought to my attention and I would like to very clearly, formally respond and clarify for the record each of your points to this audience.
> The points you have made with reference to the Dynasty Zarooni Inc “Ebony & Ivory” development project located in Jumeriah Lake Towers, Dubai;UAE are incorrectly stated and for that matter I would like to clarify the actual facts pertaining to this project.
> 
> 1.	The “Ebony & Ivory” buildings were purchased by Dynasty Zarooni Inc from Al Fajer Properties LLC. The reference details of these projects are as follows:
> Ivory 1	: Also known as Jumeriah Business Center – Plot G3-JBC8
> Ivory2	: Also known as Jumeriah Business Center – Plot H1-JBC7
> Ebony 1	: Also known as Jumeriah Business Center – Plot H3-JBC9
> 
> 2.	A 20% payment has been made to Al Fajer Properties LLC.
> 
> 3.	The project is Escrow compliant
> 
> 4.	This project has been sold onto Dynasty Zarooni Inc purchasers, who in turn, were assisted by Dynasty Zarooni Inc in the capacity of providing them with a 6 months time period to pay this 20% payment, without charge of any interest. Dynasty Zarooni Inc has already signed unit SPA’s (Sale & Purchase Agreement) with Al Fajer Properties LLC for every unit in the above aforementioned Towers. On receipt of this 20% payment, Dynasty Zarooni shall assign the unit SPA’s to the purchaser of the relevant unit.
> 
> 5.	With reference to the point relating to Area Differentials, it is clearly stated on the Dynasty Zarooni Inc Receipts’ provided to all purchasers, that a typical floor within this aforementioned Tower has the following clearly defined area designation:
> Gross Area	: 14,690 sq ft
> Net Area	: 11,314 sq ft
> Thus, no purchaser of the Ebony1 (Project: H3-JBC9) will be surprised by this information as it remains entirely transparent to the purchaser throughout the purchase process.
> 
> Our records indicate that the blogger (rohitd – Member aka. Mr Rohit Dadakar.) is NOT a purchaser of any Ebony 1 unit in his own name (also known as Jumeriah Business Center – H3-JBC9 ) and thus the blog statement made by this person is wholly unfounded. We would ask Mr Rohit Dadakar to communicate his complete contact details, including passport details, correspondence information so that our Lawyers may take up this matter directly.
> 
> We would appreciate that any such queries regarding our companies projects be directed to us in the first instance and we would to happy to address any such genuine queries in order to avoid any misrepresentation in future being aired on the Internet in such blog channels, which are wholly incorrect in fact and furthermore clarify our companies’ standpoint. In future we would kindly request that the Moderator or Active Member within this on-line community, kindly verify that all facts are clearly confirmed in order to avoid future instances of erroneous statements.
> 
> N. Vishram
> CEO
> Dynasty Al Zarooni Real Estate LLC
> Dubai; UAE
> 
> 20th August 2008.


source

Dubai court began a hearing against three members of the emirate’s ruling family after businessman sought $1.9 billion in compensation for the alleged seizure of his firm.

The claimant, Shahram Abdullah Zadeh, a Dubai-based Iranian businessman and property owner, filed the civil suit, alleging that his business had been taken over by Sheikh Hasher Maktoum Al Maktoum, according to case documents obtained by Reuters.

The court handling the case against Al Fajer Real Estate and members of the Dubai ruling family began the trial but adjourned to April 8 after defendants did not attend.

‘We attended the session but the defendant did not attend and the session was adjourned to April 8,’ Salem Al Shaali, Zadeh’s lawyer from Al Shaali & Co, told Reuters by telephone.

Sheikh Hasher had sponsored Zadeh in line with the United Arab Emirates law which requires foreigners to have a UAE national as a partner or sponsor to carry out business activities, the documents showed.

Sheikh Hasher declined to comment by telephone or respond through email. His son and daughter could not be reached by telephone.

The suit is likely to draw wide attention as a test case for Dubai, home to many Western banks and a regional business hub.

Dubai has fashioned itself as a tourist destination and business-friendly centre for many international firms, and captured global attention by building palm-shaped islands in the sea and the world’s tallest building.

Last year, as Dubai’s booming real estate market reached dizzying heights, the emirate launched a high-profile anti-corruption campaign that saw the arrest of several well-known business figures.

But the prolonged detention of several Dubai property executives as part of the probe has been criticised by groups such as Amnesty International.

Zadeh accuses Al Fajer company, Sheikh Hasher, his son and his daughter, of involvement in the case, according to case documents. The case names the daughter, Sheikha Meryam, as a partner of the firm, and the son, Sheikh Maktoum, as a manager.

Zadeh alleged that Sheikh Hasher and Sheikha Meryam have ’seized all the company has from cash monies, movables, properties, and others’ in March last year, according to case documentation.

The seizure of the company occurred while Zadeh was held in custody of Dubai police, according to Zadeh.

‘I was arrested for 60 days on February 21, 2008 and until this day I don’t know what law I have broken, and I have not been charged with anything. I still don’t know why they have kept my passport for over one year,’ Zadeh told Reuters.

The chief of Dubai police, major general Dahi Khalfan Tamim, confirmed the arrest to Reuters by telephone and said that Zadeh was held on charges of bribery on order of the public prosecutor, charges that Zadeh denies. The public prosecutor could not be reached for comment.

Abdullah Zadeh’s lawyer, Salem Al Shaali, said he expected the case to be decided on its merits.

‘We haven’t yet seen anyone, whether from the ruling family or other, escaping the rule of law,’ he told Reuters.

Essam Al Tamimi, lawyer at Al Tamimi & Co. told Reuters by telephone that the judicial system in the UAE ‘is very independent from the government and the ruling family’.

‘Anyone can sue anyone, whether they are from the ruling family or not,’ Tamimi said.

more around this case over this link


----------



## Freestyler

Freestyler said:


> I'll try to find out 2moro


They have stopped taking credit transfer application since today I believe. They are saying new rules are coming in 2 weeks time.


----------



## Imre

Freestyler said:


> They have stopped taking credit transfer application since today I believe. They are saying new rules are coming in 2 weeks time.



I think many towers going to be ON HOLD and they will not accept credit note for those projects.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Abu Dhabi residents are flocking to Dubai in their droves to avoid forking out for high rents in the capital.*

Estate agents say a growing number of Abu Dhabi workers are choosing to live in Dubai, were rents are still falling, and commute to work everyday.

Experts say some commuters are saving up to Dhs100,000 in rental costs to live in new areas such as Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Lake Towers and Discovery Gardens.

Residents have pointed to a lack of parking space and growing traffic congestion in Abu Dhabi as other reasons to relocate. 

It has also been reported that some are flocking further afield, with more homes in Oman being occupied by former residents of Abu Dhabi and Al Ain. 
Residents are said to be so frustrated by the sky-high rents in the capital that they are willing to commute for three hours a day just to get to work.

http://www.timeoutdubai.com/knowledge/news/7169-abu-dhabi-residents-flocking-to-dubai


----------



## Dubai_Steve

BenjiDXB said:


> does anybody believe that the market has bottomed out or is about to do so ? Any opinions ?


I believe the market has already bottomed out.


----------



## Imre

*Credit card fraud doubled in past year, police say 
*

Dubai: More than 300 financial-related crimes were reported in 2008 with more than 600 people charged with such offences, a senior police official said.

Lieutenant Colonel Abdul Rahman Al Nuaimi, Director of Dubai Police's Counter Economic Crimes Department, told Gulf News there were 322 financial-related cases last year while 602 individuals of different nationalities were charged. 

In January 2009, 32 financial-related crimes were reported with 47 individuals charged with various kinds of crimes. 

While in February of this year, 30 cases were reported with 56 people charged, Lieutenant Colonel Al Nuaimi said. 

The Department classifies economic related crime into three divisions: combating commercial fraud, combating deception and fraud and combating forgery. 

The commercial fraud division includes intellectual property protection and trademark protection, he said. 

The latest financial-related crimes were related to credit card fraud such as the arrest made last month by the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) of a member of a four-strong gang which specialised in counterfeiting credit cards and using them to buy expensive jewellery and watches. 

In the same month more than 500 forged credit cards were recovered from two gangs in Dubai, who are accused of withdrawing "huge" sums of money from an ATM in a shopping mall. 

On February 9, the police arrested the three other gang members in a nightclub, they had in their possession expensive goods, money and fake IDs. 

Police also found memory cards, electronics, laptops and equipment used to clone credit cards and 146 blank cards ready to be counterfeited. 

In a seminar held in January, Major General Khamis Mattar Al Mazeina, Dubai Police's Deputy Commandant General, urged banks to issue credit cards with pin codes for all transactions as fraud cases had more than doubled in the last year. 

Credit and debit card fraud cases went up from 32 registered cases in 2007 to 65 cases in 2008. Cases of document forgery, however, have fallen from 876 in 2007 to 523 in 2008.

The most common crimes involving credit and debit card reported by Dubai Police are the use of credit cards after being stolen or lost before the card holder reported the loss; the stealing of bank information by hacking into a credit card with the help of a skimmer (a machine that can read credit card information) and the theft of credit cards by courier delivery boys, which they sell at a cheap price to criminals. 

In 2008, 59 cases of counterfeit currency in 2008 were reported which were mainly operated by Asians and Africans. While 74 fraud cases were reported such as "multiplying" money and deceiving individuals by practicing "magic," said Lieutenant Colonel Al Nuaimi. 

According to him, 109 cases of intellectual property fraud and 63 in commercial and trademark fraud were reported in 2008. 


http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Police_and_The_Courts/10294931.html


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## Naz UK

It's them fecking Africans and Asians at it again! They should ban them all from Dubai. Coming here, taking shit jobs that we would never do ourselves and cleaning our toilets, then cloning our credit cards! It's digusting!


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## luluprovence

^^ hno:


Naz UK said:


> It's them fecking Africans and Asians at it again! They should ban them all from Dubai. Coming here, taking shit jobs that we would never do ourselves and cleaning our toilets, then cloning our credit cards! It's digusting!


1. http://www.britishcouncil.org/learnenglish-central-magazine-racial-discrimination.htm
2. http://www.courseworkhelp.co.uk/GCSE/English_Literature/08.htm
3. http://blogs.theasiannews.co.uk/asiannews/2007/01/who_are_the_real_bullies.html
4. http://www.yre.org.uk/pack.htm 

i didn't know that racism was prevelant on the SSC site. if you have nothing to fear in terms of capabilities from either africans / asians / whomsoever is next in the firing line then that comment would not have been made. the us of a has the highest number of white serial killers and jeffrey dahmer in particular, got away with it purely because of his being 'white'. so does this mean that the entire white race now has a 'serial killer' notion in their approach to life and should therefore be labelled as white trash. of course not.

songs against xenophobia
1. peter gabriel's 'biko' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNQuJm67OzE 
2. stevie wonder & mc'cartney's 'ebony & ivory' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZtiJN6yiik&feature=related
3. varied artists 'we are the world' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmxT21uFRwM 

in case you feel any remorse then for further reading there is 
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_against_racism_and_xenophobia 
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia


----------



## bizzybonita

Don't ever say that while you inside Dubai you will definitely get banned & will kick you out to the great Britain ! Sir Naz :angel1:


----------



## first timer

Naz UK said:


> It's them fecking Africans and Asians at it again! They should ban them all from Dubai. Coming here, taking shit jobs that we would never do ourselves and cleaning our toilets, then cloning our credit cards! It's digusting!


You sound very raciest Naz

With a name like Naz I wonder where your origins are from, you need to remember this before attacking other ethinic groups you raciest


----------



## first timer

Dubai_Steve said:


> I believe the market has already bottomed out.


No finished just yet
I predict another 30%
It is no loner attractive and people are finding out that they are robbing bast*ards


----------



## first timer

*Do you remember*

Do you remember 3 months ago I made several predictions to what was going to happen in Dubai

I predicted the bubble would burst and god it has burst BIG time and has still more to go.

I predicted that they would start sqeezing every last penny out of us and start taxing us and look it has started way to early

I predicted that once the west had built there country with our money that they would squeeze us out so they could buy these bulls*it properties and life style at a fraction of the dream.

I predicted so much and received so many attacks.

You guys just need to acknowledge it and stop day dreaming, Dubai is nothing special, it is a hot and sweaty country built on bulls*it.
The Government has no compassion for westerners they simply just wanted our money. They offer no incentives for us to live there and resettle.

Now your attack me but deep down you know what i am saying is very true

THIS POST IS A PERSONAL OPINION OF MYSELF who resides in a demoncratic country

I wont be posting answers to the attacks that you will post, Ill simply revisit this section in 1 year and will find apartments being sold or rather cant be sold for as little as £20k in prime locations


----------



## HappyLarry

Naz UK said:


> It's them fecking Africans and Asians at it again! They should ban them all from Dubai. Coming here, taking shit jobs that we would never do ourselves and cleaning our toilets, then cloning our credit cards! It's digusting!


Shame on you sir!
I believe you are of Pakistani origin. hno:


----------



## AltinD

Calm down guys. It was sarcasm and it was not directed towards Asians and Africans


----------



## jagmp

AltinD said:


> Calm down guys. It was sarcasm and it was not directed towards Asians and Africans


sorry i can't understand this sarcasm. can you explain.:?


----------



## luluprovence

AltinD said:


> Calm down guys. It was sarcasm and it was not directed towards Asians and Africans


altin d: it's the put yourself in the africans / asians place and imagine that naz uk put germans / dutch / swedes / norwegians / finnish / swiss etcetera instead of the africans / asians in his sentence. i am pretty certain that whichever race was mentioned would have at least one poster saying something. it's like punching someone and then saying - oh well, i was drunk so i was just flaffing around. doesn't make sense at all.


----------



## London2Manila

No really it isn't. 

It is pretty clearly ironic. 

Irony (from the Ancient Greek εἰρωνεία eironeía, meaning hypocrisy, deception, or feigned ignorance) is a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is an incongruity or discordance between what one says or does and what one means or what is generally understood. Irony is a mode of expression that calls attention to the character's knowledge and that of the audience. There is some argument about what qualifies as ironic, but all senses of irony revolve around the perceived notion of an incongruity between what is said and what is meant; or between an understanding of reality, or an expectation of a reality, and what actually happens. (Wikipedia)

Naz, was drawing attention to the reference to asians and africans in the article which referred to the crime mainly being committed by aforesaid.

Moving on, the whole of Dubai is pretty ironic, isn't it. 

And, 20k you say ?

I ll have 15, thanks.

I personally, love living in a demoncratic country too. However, I still not convinced that Lucifer was an appropriation of the Roman god Venus, which one talkative nutter told me whilst I was in the museum the other day.


----------



## worried1

*Trump Baja Bankrupt*

Looks as if Dubai may be OK. I was hounded by realtors to invest in Trump Baja. On the first day 122$ million of deposits was taken.

Now there is a hole in the ground and investors have lost 122 million.

Hoping this does not happen in Dubai.:cheers:


----------



## foxy

Naz UK said:


> It's them fecking Africans and Asians at it again! They should ban them all from Dubai. Coming here, taking shit jobs that we would never do ourselves and cleaning our toilets, then cloning our credit cards! It's digusting!


luluprovence et all.

Sarcasm is exagerating something and meaning exactly the opposite. it's a humorous way of getting a message across. 

So Naz is sticking up for the Asians and the Africans... it's pretty obvious.


----------



## i love dubai

Naz UK said:


> It's them fecking Africans and Asians at it again! They should ban them all from Dubai. Coming here, taking shit jobs that we would never do ourselves and cleaning our toilets, then cloning our credit cards! It's digusting!


Naz, you have posted more than 3000 comments so far, non of them are positive. Do you suffer from PMS every day?


----------



## nri-hotels

Dubai and Abu Dhabi emirates need (and are able to accommodate) at least 10 million population, in order to make sense of its intentions to become world class cities.

There is plenty of land, access, capital, and security (provided fundamentalism is kept away).

A secular approach is needed, and appreciated. Also a delinking from the US currency is needed to give some identity.


----------



## bizzybonita

Lawyers in UAE are highest paid in the world 

on Monday, March 16, 2009
Lawyers in the UAE are the highest paid - not just in the region - but across the world, say experts.

As per the figures provided to Emirates Business by Acritas, the legal sector researcher based in UK, the average hourly rates for lawyers in Dubai are the highest.

*In the UAE, it's $610/hour (Dh2,240) and within the country Dubai lawyers charge more ($663/hour) when compared to Abu Dhabi ($551/hour). The Middle East average is $595/hour (based on UAE, Oman, Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait). In the UK, the average rate for lawyers is $476/hour and in the US it's $459/hour. Canada is lower on the scale and the rate is $399/hour and in Continental Europe the average is $389/hour, Lisa Hart, CEO of Acritas told this paper.*

According to Ian Giulianotti, Associate Director, HRM Consulting at Nadia Recruitment, the salaries of lawyers in the UAE are 10-15 per cent more than those in the UK and US.

The salary of a senior lawyer in the country ranges from Dh60,000 to Dh90,000 per month; for private legal practitioners it's about Dh65,000; and for newly-qualified lawyers the figure stands at Dh45,000. "These are average salaries but it also depends on the firms they are employed with," said Giulianotti.

According to Hart, the high rate of lawyers in the UAE is due to the high costs they incur. "Most probably it's due to the high fixed costs they [the lawyers] incur – for many firms, their offices on the ground are fairly new and so the substantial set-up costs have to be passed onto the client. In addition, relationships in the region are much younger than in the West so discounts given to clients may not be as generous."

Going forward, Hart sees a reduction in fees of the lawyers in the region. "The most commonly cited anticipated change in the Middle East over the next year by general counsel was a decrease in fees – they expect prices to come down, for law firms to offer better value for money and for law firms to move away from hourly rates to move innovative billing methods," she said.

"I simply think we will have a lot of pressure on cost, and things will get mighty competitive between the largest firms out here," Hart said citing one general counsel.

"I think that there will be more downward pressure on pricing. Clients will demand lower prices from all law firms internationally and domestically," she elaborated quoting another counsel.

The increased competition will also lead to lower fees, said Hart. "The demand for lower costs and better value for money could be a direct consequence of the increased competition in the region. Over the last few years, there has been a huge influx of firms opening offices in the area so buyers have much greater choice of law firm providers – they are in the position to demand better value from the firms competing for the work... especially when in some areas there will not be as much work available."

Agrees Giulianotti: "We've seen a huge influx of lawyers from the UK, the US and Australia because of attractive salaries and better probability of becoming partners in the company."

"Legal profession thrives in good times and even in times of recession. When the economy is good they are kept busy with giving legal advise to the clients and in a downturn there have a lot of arbitration and dispute related work. Having said that, couple of law firms have suffered and laid off people, especially ones who'd been working for real estate developers," he further added.

As far as the different sectors are concerned, oil & gas will see the maximum cut down on their legal spending in the GCC. "[Nearly] 50 per cent of oil and gas companies are anticipating a decrease in legal spend over the next year (only 14 per cent expect to see an increase).

[About] 38 per cent of transport and logistics companies are expecting a decrease (verses 25 per cent anticipating an increase).

Across Middle East as a whole, the best outlook is expected for real estate/construction and infrastructure companies where 43 per cent of companies are anticipating an increase in legal spend and only 21 per cent are expecting a decrease," explained Hart.



Law firms face pricing pressure

The research of Acritas shows that the business environment in the Gulf is putting pressure on lawyers' fees and forcing firms to re-evaluate their fee structures. Over the next year or so, clients are going to demand lower prices from both domestic and international law firms. The Gulf is not immune to the pricing pressures law firms face in the UK and the US, says its CEO.

In its research, just under one-fifth of legal buyers across the Gulf (19 per cent) believe that law firms in the Middle East will need to lower fees and provide better value for money over the next two years. Yet in Dubai, over a quarter of buyers (26 per cent) believe firms will need to drop prices.

The majority of buyers in the region favour the pricing model of fixed fees (46 per cent) with a further three per cent favouring a combination of hourly and fixed fees.

Less than a quarter of legal buyers favour hourly rates (23 per cent) in contrast to the two thirds of legal buyers in the US (66 per cent) and over a third in the UK (37 per cent).

The average hourly rate of a lawyer in the Middle East is 24 per cent higher than the UK and 30 per cent higher than the US.

On a country basis, Acritas believes Oman is holding up better than all the other Gulf States with a 47 per cent increase in demand for legal services. Buyers in the UAE and Saudi Arabia expect the lowest increase in spend.

Whilst there is still a flourishing market for law firms in Oman, Acritas' research indicates that in other areas of the Gulf a plateau has now been reached.

Some of those Acritas interviewed believe there will be a number of law firm mergers in the region. Whether this practically happens remains to be seen but quite clearly the challenge for law firms in the region over the next 18 months will be to customise their approach and tailor their services to the changing needs of the companies, believes the company

Nearly half of all legal clients in the UAE (49 per cent) expect a financial downturn in 2009 compared to just over a quarter (26 per cent) in Bahrain and Qatar (27 per cent).


US legal employment market slows with economy

Consistent with the overall weakening of the legal economy, all of the markers that measure the strength of the legal employment market for new lawyers, such as law firm recruiting levels for summer programmes and summer programme outcomes, trended downward in 2008, after four years of a very strong legal recruiting market, according to National Association for Law Placement (NALP) in the US.

Based on information provided by NALP members about fall 2008 recruiting, the market for entry-level legal employment constricted measurably, especially for current second-year students (2Ls) seeking a position for summer 2009. This is according to Perspectives on Fall 2008 Law Student Recruiting, an annual report published by Nalp on selected aspects of fall recruitment activity and the experiences of both legal employers and law schools.

The most dramatic impact of the current economic situation on legal employment opportunities was on the numbers that describe the fall recruiting of 2Ls for summer 2009 positions. Across employers of all sizes, the median number of offers extended dropped dramatically from 15 in fall of 2007 to 10 in fall of 2008. At the largest firms – firms with more than 700 lawyers firm-wide – the median number of offers dropped from 30 to 18.5. Similarly, the per cent of callback interviews resulting in offers for summer spots fell precipitously to 46.6 per cent from a figure that had hovered at or above 60 per cent for the three years prior. Not surprisingly, the offer acceptance rate also jumped. At 32.5 per cent, it is the highest rate recorded since 2002.

Employers issued a median of 40 and an average of 86 callback invitations to current second-year students for summer 2009 programmes. Nationwide, 74 per cent of these callback invitations were accepted. Overall, rates of on-campus interviewing and participation in job fairs generally either decreased or at best remained relatively constant.

*(Source: National Association for Law Placement in US)*


----------



## Raza01

HappyLarry said:


> Shame on you sir!
> I believe you are of Pakistani origin. hno:


Why you think that he is a Pakistani...from where you are Bast....


----------



## smussuw

*Economy is resilient, says Khalifa*









President His Highness Shaikh Khalifa Bin Zayed
Al Nahyan, has denied rumours that the Abu
Dhabi government is seeking to acquire companies
owned by the Dubai government and said there 
are misinterpretations about the relations between
the emirates

WAM
Published: March 15, 2009, 23:05
Abu Dhabi: President His Highness Shaikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, has denied rumours that the Abu Dhabi government is seeking to acquire companies owned by the Dubai government and said there are misinterpretations about the relations between the emirates.

On rumours that the Abu Dhabi government is seeking to acquire many companies owned by the Dubai government, Shaikh Khalifa said there are wrong interpretations about the nature of relations between emirates of the Federation. 

Shaikh Khalifa was speaking in an interview with the new Abu Dhabi-based business daily , Alrroya, which publishes its first issue on Monday.

"Any proper economic procedure must enjoy a great deal of transparency and this is what we are keen about when dealing with the impacts of the crisis," Shaikh Khalifa said.

He stressed measures taken at the federal or local level to tackle the impact of the crisis are clear and are announced in public. Hence, there can be no room for misinterpretations.

The President stressed that the impact of the current global financial crisis on the national economy have been misunderstood and exaggerated.

He expressed confidence in the ability of national financial and economic institutions to contain the repercussions of the global financial crisis and maintain the UAE's reputation and position on the world investment map.

"Our national institutions will be able to counter any temporary burdens resulting from the global financial crisis, thanks to their accumulated experience, respect and credibility in the markets. The government will give them support to counter such burdens as and when necessary.

He said the UAE is responsibly dealing with the international community and the efforts being made to face the impact of the global economic crisis. This is in accordance with its capability as a developing nation.

"The position the UAE enjoys on the global economic map is not coincidental or temporary or borne out of certain economic circumstances but a fruit of continuous work at both federal and local levels," Shaikh Khalifa said.

"We believe the financial crisis has detected structural defects in the global financial order, which requires the world's main economic powers to rectify and reform it," the President clarified.

"Although we are victims of the global financial crisis and are paying a price, we have worked with the international community to help the countries hit by this crisis. We have also worked within the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) towards shaping a collective position on the crisis. Saudi Arabia had been delegated to state this position at the G20 Summit in Washington in December 2008," Shaikh Khalifa said.

Shaikh Khalifa said the government is not working in isolation from private financial and service sectors since the economic philosophy is based on encouraging individual initiative and the free market.

"The government is committed to providing the appropriate economic climate that allows the private sector to play its role in the development process.

"The government always moves, when necessary, to extend all forms of help to national private institutions so that they can continue playing their role in the development process," Shaikh Khalifa said. 

On the termination of workers from the private sector, Shaikh Khalifa said the government is following the issue. The Labour Ministry has set certain rules that ban arbitrary termination. The law regulates the termination of national and expatriate workers and protects the rights of all parties.

Oil price

Turning to oil prices, Shaikh Khalifa said the surge in revenues generated during the boom in world oil prices in 2008, though relatively short, has been reflected in public spending and salaries.

"The federal budget has seen a remarkable increase and maintained a balance despite the rise in expenditure."

Furthermore, these resources have contributed to increasing investments which back the drive for diversification of the sources of income.

The President called for the creation of a mechanism to control the world oil market to prevent harmful speculation by circles outside of the oil equation. These sections are only after quick profits regardless of the damage they inflict on producers and consumers.

"There is also a need to introduce criteria concerning tax imposed on oil which is adding a burden that has become heavier than the original price of oil."


----------



## AppleMac

smussuw said:


> President His Highness Shaikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, has denied rumours that the Abu Dhabi government is seeking to acquire companies owned by the Dubai government


That's a shame - I was hoping that somebody with deep pockets was going to buy Emaar hno:


----------



## bizzybonita

Opening a business in Dubai is a risk for all foreigner

By law you must have local partner who can wake up and disturb your business operation. Foreigners are claiming the right to secure them investment at 100%. Since contract set between sponsor and you cannot be register in the court of Dubai any dispute will become extremely difficult to retrieve your right. Local authorities are basically in favor of local people.
The vicious thing about the sponsorship is not only that you will be in difficulty to manage your business but the local sponsor can claim the right to take away from you all your effort and profit.

Foreigner must know that this dark side of Dubai business operation must be take seriously before decide to bet on a possible loss. Local people are using them advantage when the business is going on the right track. At the beginning the friendly relationship is there and all you can thing is to hope it will continue.

We will not say that local sponsor are same, but there is a large number of sponsor who operating that way.

We sincerely hope that all foreigner will thing twice before opening them business until the legal authority will be able to determined the difference once for all of a (silence sponsor) and ( sponsor owner).

http://www.alineah.com/news/309/detail.htm


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## bizzybonita

Al Barari residential development to release 500 units into the market


Saturday, March 14, 2009

The officials at Al Barari residential development in Dubai revealed that the second phase of their project would release 500 apartments, ranging in size from 2000 square feet to 10,000 square feet, and will be worth $1.3mn to $5mn, depending on the size.

Al Barari Luxury Villas Dubai
The apartments are targeted at people who wish to live in Al Barari, but, find the villas beyond their reach. The second phase of the project would include a spa, a hotel, and a cultural village, said David Stafford, Chief Sales and Marketing Officer, Al Barari.

About 5000 workers are working on-site at Al Barari currently, as the project enters into the final stretch of phase one, with 95 villas more to be handed over in September.

The first phase of the project comprises 290 villas and 170 units, that have already been sold to clients, who include buyers from the UK, Asia, the US and Australia.

Zaal Mohammad Zaal, the Chairman of Al Barari, said that the landscaping for the project is being planned considering the geographical location of Dubai, and comparing it to other countries that share the same geographical location, and same climate zone. About Dh.1.4bn has been dedicated to plants and greenery in the project, and emphasis is being laid on the greenery of the project.


----------



## bizzybonita

Funds on way to help Dubai companies; property firms on priority list


The companies in Dubai can expect funds within two weeks time, out of the US$10bn (Dh.36.73bn) which the Dubai Government borrowed from the Central Bank, to help ease the cash squeeze situation in the emirate.

This was revealed by Nasser al Shaikh, the Head of Dubai Finance Department, when speaking during a conference today. The funds, which form a part of the $20bn bond programme introduced last month to help Dubai in meeting the short-term requirements for funding, helped calm down investors, who were worried that the companies may face hurdles repaying debts this year, as the banks were reluctant to refinance loans due to the global credit crunch.

The emirate is yet to decide on how to administer the funds on a case-by-case basis, although Al Shaikh confirmed that the property sector companies would be given special priority. The Economist at Standard Chartered, Shady Shaher, said that although firms outside property sector too, would be eligible for funds, he expects majority of the money to flow into property companies, particularly, those that are partially-owned by Dubai Government.

Several large Dubai-based groups have already applied for funds. Al Shaikh said that the cash flow to the companies, affected by global crunch, would be given based on their requirements.
The Dubai Government is believed to set up a special fund through the Department of Economic Development, to lend a portion of the $10bn to small and medium-sized companies that require cash.

Speaking about the real estate market in Dubai, Al Shaikh said that the finance department would keep bringing out measures to stimulate the sector. The focus in the present situation should be on settling the disputes between buyers and sellers, he pointed out.

As for the current talks between Tamweel and Amlak, the two largest mortgage companies of UAE, Al Shaikh, who is also the Chairman of Amlak, said that the management of both companies were holding discussions about the same with the Ministerial Committee. Although it was thought that the companies were planning a merger, the statement from government officials earlier this week, ruled out the possibility and suggested other options.

However, al Shaikh said that more companies are also planning consolidation, amidst slowdown, although a potential consolidation should make sense to shareholders and to the economy at large.

Al Shaikh also did not deny the likelihood for consolidation between companies in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, either.


----------



## smussuw

bizzybonita said:


> Opening a business in Dubai is a risk for all foreigner
> 
> By law you must have local partner who can wake up and disturb your business operation. Foreigners are claiming the right to secure them investment at 100%. Since contract set between sponsor and you cannot be register in the court of Dubai any dispute will become extremely difficult to retrieve your right. Local authorities are basically in favor of local people.
> The vicious thing about the sponsorship is not only that you will be in difficulty to manage your business but the local sponsor can claim the right to take away from you all your effort and profit.
> 
> Foreigner must know that this dark side of Dubai business operation must be take seriously before decide to bet on a possible loss. Local people are using them advantage when the business is going on the right track. At the beginning the friendly relationship is there and all you can thing is to hope it will continue.
> 
> We will not say that local sponsor are same, but there is a large number of sponsor who operating that way.
> 
> We sincerely hope that all foreigner will thing twice before opening them business until the legal authority will be able to determined the difference once for all of a (silence sponsor) and ( sponsor owner).
> 
> http://www.alineah.com/news/309/detail.htm


:laugh:

There is no difference between a silence sponsor or the sponsor owner because legally the local owns 51% either ways of the company. What a **** !


----------



## dirtyharry1

smussuw said:


> The President stressed that the impact of the current global financial crisis on the national economy have been misunderstood and exaggerated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the best joke I have heard for a long time in this funny country, haha!!!!


----------



## tehsin123

It show the passion to live in an imgainary world without accepting realities and taking actions.


----------



## Wannaberich

I'm disgusted at how this thread has descended into post after post of childish bitchiness
and name calling.Some of the comments are downright pathetic.What is wrong with you people?! We are supposed to be discussing the property market in Dubai for Gods sake !

There is only one sensible and mature way to deal with the issue of whether or not Naz should be banned.I propose the two sides who are for him and against him should meet up at a local park and kick the crap out of each other.The side suffering the least blood loss would be declared the winner and Nazs future would then be decided by this.

Those in favour please indicate so.


----------



## luluprovence

-------------


----------



## luluprovence

---------------


----------



## High Times

High Times said:


> It is interesting to sit back and read some of the more intelligent posts lately, (*admittedly few and far between unfortunately*). However the main





Wannaberich said:


> *Got to be honest, I find your constant criticism of this forum and its members tiresome. **You bitched about them in your long post and you did the same in your last one.You always seem to do that.*
> 
> Yes theres alot of crap posted out there,some of it mine,and guess what,yes some from you too.
> Thats the way it is on here so if you dont like it maybe its not for you.
> Personally I welcome everyones opinion.
> As for those mere mortals of us who dont have economic degrees,I still hope our input is worthy of reading especially to those like yourself who are on a different level





Wannaberich said:


> *I'm disgusted at how this thread has descended into post after post of childish bitchiness*
> *and name calling.Some of the comments are downright pathetic.What is wrong with you people?! We are supposed to be discussing the property market in Dubai for Gods sake !*


:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> :hilarious:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious


I dont get it?what are u saying?


----------



## 234sale

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...es/4995778/FSA-to-cap-mortgage-borrowing.html
Homebuyers will be prevented from borrowing more than three times their annual salaries


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

luluprovence said:


> old town lovin: could you re-upload the emaar poster on the charges so that it is readable?
> p.s. the original link otl is http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764&page=760
> :tyty:


If you need I can email it to you... Just let me know...


----------



## Freestyler

PJA 4-bed villa price can go down to -25% (2.1m)?


----------



## Wannaberich

Wannaberich said:


> I'm disgusted at how this thread has descended into post after post of childish bitchiness
> and name calling.Some of the comments are downright pathetic.What is wrong with you people?! We are supposed to be discussing the property market in Dubai for Gods sake !
> 
> There is only one sensible and mature way to deal with the issue of whether or not Naz should be banned.I propose the two sides who are for him and against him should meet up at a local park and kick the crap out of each other.The side suffering the least blood loss would be declared the winner and Nazs future would then be decided by this.
> Those in favour please indicate so.


Ok,hands up High Times I do get it.
You're trying to embarrass me by taking PART of my earlier post,putting it together with my post from two weeks ago,and trying to make me look the hypocrite.
Trouble is moron everyone can read the WHOLE of my post and know it for the joke it was meant to be.Sorry.
The fact that so long after our last spat you would even bother shows you are still seething with anger and a sense for revenge.Knowing that I wound you up that much fills me with endless satisfaction.
Also,the fact you once again have contributed to the bullshit and crap on here which you so often criticise demonstrates what a hypocrite you are.
Better luck next time.

:rofl:


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> It is interesting to sit back and read some of the more intelligent posts lately, (admittedly few and far between unfortunately).


Well,you said it.


----------



## luluprovence

---------------


----------



## foxy

Richard Head said:


> 1) Sarcasm, one of the many things you clearly fail to understand.
> 
> 2) Some of Naz's posts are quite amusing, which on its own makes his overall contribution to the forum of considerably more value than yours.
> 
> 3) He has also posted some insightful intelligent contributions and demonstrated a capacity for logical thought, two more areas in which you fail hopelessly. You have always been, and remain, an utter waste of thread space.
> 
> I vote we keep Naz and ban you. I think if we had a poll you would be a very distant second. So now who's the ****?



I vote 4 Naz.. His sarcasm is well targeted. Sometimes money makes stupid people feel superior. Nuff said.


----------



## luluprovence

---------------


----------



## dbxdude

luluprovence said:


> any opinions on whether i should rent or sell would certainly be appreciated given the current market scenario.:?
> thank you.


think u try to do both and take which ever happens first.....


----------



## Cayman

luluprovence said:


> any opinions on whether i should rent or sell would certainly be appreciated given the current market scenario.:?
> thank you.


It depends on the location of the property. Certain properties closer to SZR and Jebel ALi are rented by the Abu Dhabi crowd these days, who prefer the daily commute to the capitol rather than paying high rents there.

Disco Garden, Marina and JLT are their primary target, so you may get lucky.

Having said that I know of someone who rented a 1084 sqft 1 bed in JLT (bang in front of metro station) for 60K (2 chqs).


----------



## luluprovence

----------------


----------



## luluprovence

-------------------


----------



## luluprovence

-------------


----------



## speculator

HappyLarry said:


> Shame on you sir!
> I believe you are of Pakistani origin. hno:


I believe he was being sarcastic by mimicking a typical westerner ( please no racism accusations ). Sub consciously thats whats in the back of western minds when they read that sort of stuff but they wont say it and just try to demonstrate properness. 
Naz can say it in a sarcastic way because of his dual ethnicity. I think its also sort of funny looking at it from my Pakistani perspective. However I am also British so I can see it from both angles.:lol:


----------



## luluprovence

-----------------


----------



## bizzybonita

The survey results :


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

^^^^ Is it me or are these lists missing Burj Downtown?


----------



## 234sale

234sale said:


> Property Weekly, which is owned by the Gulf News,
> couldnt find this online


Thursday just gone Property Weekly


----------



## Cayman

^^

What do you mean?

They no longer publish it?


----------



## 234sale

Cayman said:


> ^^
> 
> What do you mean?
> 
> They no longer publish it?


This was in last weeks property weekly,, You can probably still find for free or at magazine stand for 3AED


----------



## Imre

17 March 2009

IMMEDIATE RELEASE

*DM approves Bawadi project Master plan for land uses*

Dubai Municipality has approved the master plan for land uses under the Bawadi project launched by Bawadi company, a member of Tatweer Dubai, and to facilitate all the planning and coordination of the project as this plan represents a part of the work of the overall master plan of the project, and serves as the basis for all services and facilities required in any development projects.

Eng. Dawood Al Hajiri, Director of Planning Department in the Municipality said the move would pave the process of preparation of plans for land use, the study of density of buildings, the Gross Floor Area (GFA), procedures related to service facilities by the developers all over the Bawadi, and the hospitality and shopping project extended over a distance of 10kms.

"It will also lead to the discussions on the technical requirements and supervision on the conduct of the project and in ensuring the effectiveness of performance in line with the highest international standards and providing a unique lifestyle unprecedented within all facilities," he said. 

The leading hospitality project, which is being developed with an investment to the tune of Dhs200 billion, had obtained the approval of Dubai Municipality with regard to areas of major construction within the master plan. The new approval will enhance the conduct of the outstanding hospitality project, which was designed to attract the elite of the most prominent global brands. All measures have been taken to enable developers and partners in the joint venture to begin preliminary work on their sites.

The land use plan aims to enhance efficiency and effectiveness of economic development, including secure and easy traffic flow, promotion of safety measures, attention to the provision of sufficient quantities of light and air, focus on urban design, support and means of energy conservation, and the establishment of service facilities.

According to the master plan of the Bawadi project, the 10Kms long hospitality project will be divided into five geographic regions, reflecting the unique characteristics of the link between the buildings and the road network and cross-cuttings. Among the other distinctive elements of the project is a high-level transport system, which includes areas dedicated to pedestrians and outstanding transportation carriages, which would be integrated with the rest of the presentations offered by this high-luxury destination.

This has been the completion of the master plan proposed in the wake of an evaluation and careful planning of the methods and design patterns, and the extent of adaptation of the project with the surrounding environment and open areas by a group of prominent designers and architects in the world. The master plan is expected to contribute precisely the infrastructure facilities and transportation network to establish Bawadi as an unparalleled destination in the world. 

The Bawadi project will include 51 hotels with a capacity of more than 60,000 rooms, 1,500 restaurants, the largest retail shopping area in the world covering 40 million square feet of space for lease, in addition to Hotel Asia, which will include 6,500 rooms. The project will also include a series of retail outlets, conference centres, and a variety of facilities and services.


----------



## Typhoonpilot

> Ref. Royal Estate Update 11th March 2009
> 
> I don’t think they have received the level of commitment they need with the new payment plan. Extending the offer is not going to make any difference!



Agreed MiM, looks like Deyaar has figured out what it will take. When will Aristocrat Star come to the same conclusion?


Dubai-based Deyaar, the emirate's second largest listed developer, today unveiled a plan aimed at helping it withstand the downturn in the property market. The steps announced by the firm include cutting the price of units by up to 30%, easing payment plans for investors and giving full refunds on some postponed projects. Projects that have been delayed by the developer include Deyaar Enclave, Deyaar Park and Mirar Residences. 



Typhoonpilot


----------



## Nachkebia

^^^^ :nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:


----------



## Naz UK

Well, by 2075, 51 hotels may not be such a big number in tourism.


----------



## luluprovence

---------------


----------



## Monument

Freestyler said:


> If you study economic bubbles despite differences in time, places, and markets they follow the same pattern. And did you read the blog?


No - of course I didn't read it - I've better things to do with my time than read this stupid blog.


----------



## Smokeey

Very good article from the FT recently - nice to see some positive news for a change, and makes total sense:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
*Do not believe reports of Dubai’s demise*
By Afshin Molavi 

Published: March 11 2009 22:11 | Last updated: March 11 2009 22:11

Dubai must feel a little like Mark Twain, these days. Upon reading his own obituary in the newspaper, Twain wrote: “The report of my death was an exaggeration.”

Dubai has had its share of obituaries as it suffers from a property bust and contagion from the global credit crisis. Headlines from Cairo to London to New York, laced with schadenfreude, proclaim its demise. Newsweek said simply: “Goodbye, Dubai.”

The emirate is certainly stumbling. Many of its state-owned entities drown in debt. Several high-profile property projects have wilted under tight credit, debt and corruption. Its stock market has been in free-fall. Many of its top officials, who once swaggered on the world stage, now skulk in denial.

Still, news of Dubai’s death has been greatly exaggerated. Its fundamentals as a regional hub of shipping, services, people, trade and capital have not changed. “Disneyland Dubai has crashed,” as one Dubai-based banker put it, referring to headline-grabbing property projects, “but the core business model of Dubai remains sound.”

That business model predates modern financial markets and the hyper-globalisation of today. It is not about lavish hotels, skyscrapers and man-made islands in the sea. It is a simple model, reflected in the statement of Sheikh Rashid bin Saeed al-Maktoum, the late ruler of Dubai: “What’s good for the merchants is good for Dubai.” Creating a hub for merchants has been an al-Maktoum family tradition for more than a century. And it is those merchants and migrants, dreamers and entrepreneurs, who built Dubai, who deserve equal credit for its rise and who will help it grow again.

This openness to foreign talent will support Dubai as it faces today’s crisis. Speculators will leave but plenty will ride out the storm, including Arab professionals who have chosen Dubai as the place to achieve their dreams and middle-class Indian mid-level managers who make the city work.

To understand why Dubai will survive, it is important to understand its commercial geography. It is not solely an Arab state – demographically or commercially. It is a commercial and tourist hub for a region that encompasses the growing markets of south Asia, emerging Africa, oil-rich Russia and the Gulf states, Iran, central Asia and the Caucasus, Europe and China. And it works largely because of the heavy infrastructure investment made by Dubai’s rulers and the expatriate traders, service professionals, construction workers, bankers and techies who make up 90 per cent of the population.

Dubai was never, as one newspaper called it, “The Middle East’s economic powerhouse.” Rather, it was and remains a highly successful entrepôt in one of the richest and fastest-growing parts of the world. Like most entrepôts, it feeds from and fuels growth. Dubai companies, for example, have substantively improved east Africa’s transport infrastructure and DP World manages ports in 49 countries.

Though Dubai is racked by debt – $70bn of it – much of that comes from massive infrastructure projects that have positioned it well for the future. Infrastructure spending is old hat in Dubai. When Sheikh Rashid built the Jebel Ali port in 1979, to much criticism, he made a big bet – and won. Today, Jebel Ali helps place Dubai among the 10 largest container terminal port cities in the world. When Sheikh Rashid chose to take on a big loan in the late 1950s to dredge the Dubai creek to allow for larger ships, he was panned. It worked. The ships came, and so did the merchants. The pre-oil emirate grew and flourished.

The same can be said of its airports, airlines, telecommunications and broadband networks, metro system and expanded highways. There is no city within striking distance of challenging Dubai as a hub in a region that extends beyond the Arab world to 1.5bn people. Its airport is among the 10 busiest for international passenger traffic. It is also among the world’s top 15 air cargo hubs. 

Dubai’s property bubble popped. Its hubris also (thankfully) popped. Its core business model, however, did not. Property corrections and over-leveraged state entities can be fixed. Becoming a poor environment for trade would be far more dangerous. When the world growth engine restarts, city-states such as Dubai will flourish. In the meantime, Dubai will serve as a vital, if somewhat clogged, artery in world trade. The battered but still battling hub city will rise again.

The writer, a fellow at the New America Foundation, was a Dubai-based correspondent for Reuters and is working on a study of hub cities.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## luluprovence

-----------------


----------



## Naz UK

Great article. Almost as good as the one written by the Al-Ain University professor about the holocaust never happening, except that one had more truths in it.


----------



## luluprovence

----------


----------



## bizzybonita

^^ After half month from now !


----------



## luluprovence

---------------


----------



## Freestyler

I've been reading on previous real estate market bubbles, scary stuff


----------



## luluprovence

--------------


----------



## bizzybonita

luluprovence said:


> :tyty: bizzyb
> 
> bizzyb can you tell me how to upload a vid; i guess everyone must be out celebrating St. Patrick's Day.


I Guess you have many question for each one of us in UAE section :lol:


----------



## bizzybonita

Nowadays, with 50% drop of construction materials price everything is possible to enhance real estate market (sales,finishing,early delivery of units...etc )!


----------



## AltinD

^^ Yeah, especially with 99% drop of abailable funds to pay for any of that.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Standard & Poor's has cut the credit ratings of six Dubai government-backed entities and a leading property firm. 

It comes weeks after Dubai's finance ministry sold $10bn (£6.9bn) in bonds to the United Arab Emirates (UAE), to ease the emirate's liquidity problems. 

Dubai is one of seven members of the UAE federation. 

S&P said that the worsening world economy could hit sectors vital to the Dubai economy such as trade, tourism and commerce. 

S&P analyst Farouk Soussa said the downgrades followed a cut to the in-house sovereign rating S&P has for Dubai, a rating which remains confidential. 

The six bodies affected by the one-notch rating cut are DIFC Investments, port operator DP World, Jebel Ali Free Zone and JAFZ Sukuk Islamic financing package, the Dubai Multi Commodities Center Authority and Dubai Holding Commercial Operations Group. 

Despite the cutback all remain at investment-grade at 'A-' or above. 

S&P also cut its long-term corporate credit rating on Dubai property developer Emaar Properties PJSC to 'BBB+' from 'A-'.


----------



## bizzybonita

AltinD said:


> ^^ Yeah, especially with 99% drop of abailable funds to pay for any of that.


yeah, is this for investment company or developer company ! to me deyaar is a broken investment company (like alfajer properties & marina star investment company ) not developer at all ...if not supported by government till now they will run out with investors money !


----------



## Dubai_Steve

According to reports from within Dubai, property brokers are reporting a slight upturn in interest and transactions, possibly signaling that the bottom of the market has been reached.

Agents are reporting that property prices in some of the major overseas property districts have decreased by up to 50 per cent, but that buyers are being tempted back into the market by lower asking prices. Flats on the Palm Jumeirah have reduced from Dh2,000 per square foot at the height of the property boom to around Dh1,000 per square foot now.

At the same time, prices in Dubai Marina have dropped by around 50 per cent to Dh900 to Dh1,100 per square foot. Iseeb Rehman, managing director at Sherwoods estate agency says that people “are more willing to transact at that level.”

Residential sales and lettings agent Better Homes has reported that transactions have risen 15 per cent from January to February 2009, showing that the drop in prices may be tempting buyers and investors back into the market.


----------



## luluprovence

----


----------



## luluprovence

epitomized well; -------


----------



## Maha

Dubai_Steve said:


> Residential sales and lettings agent Better Homes has reported that transactions have risen 15 per cent from January to February 2009, showing that the drop in prices may be tempting buyers and investors back into the market.


Interesting, a Better Homes broker told me the same thing: he didn't say 15%, but he said that they have been doing more deals during Febrary and especially March, whereas in January it was close to zero. He too said that he feels the worst was during January.

However, it may be a temporary thing, for all we know maybe in May things will go back to the way it was in January. hno:

I'm not being pessimestic; I'm just saying that you won't know when it's over until it actually is over.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ well the viewings and the interest from buyers have been increasing for a while now...not all of couse have translated into actual sales.


----------



## luluprovence

----


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## mission

Hi 

Does anyone know where i can get a uae tenancy agreement from?


----------



## kxs

The video of the interview was just now removed from YouTube; that's amazing!

It looks like someone who didn't like the conversation just pulled the plug!


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## luluprovence

mission said:


> Hi
> 
> Does anyone know where i can get a uae tenancy agreement from?


i have a draft one for my apt let in .doc format. any idea on how to convert it and i can post it on here for you.


----------



## 234sale

mission said:


> Hi
> 
> Does anyone know where i can get a uae tenancy agreement from?


Most stationary shops sell them if you are in the UAE


----------



## luluprovence

The National: Thursday, 19 March 2009


----------



## glover

i think you can download one from RERA's site. 

http://rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/jsp/template.jsp?pageID=10015&&lang=0



mission said:


> Hi
> 
> Does anyone know where i can get a uae tenancy agreement from?


----------



## IISinbadII

mission said:


> Does anyone know where i can get a uae tenancy agreement from?


You can get it from any real estate company.


----------



## luluprovence

---


----------



## investstop

Many are not paying, but it is almost impossible to get people together and file a petition to RERA on behalf of all of us.
Therefor it is my advise, that everybody informs Aristocrat of their intentions ASAP, and thereafter goes to RERA with written information as well. This way RERA will see that they are getting many complaints about the project and the developer, and lets hope that matters.

Hurry up, time might be running out!


----------



## gerald.d

Careful before jumping to conclusions about things written in the Guardian.

That paper is so full of typos, it could be an article on Dublin for all we know.


----------



## speculator

sidxb said:


> - Dubai is bust
> - Asked money from AD
> - 3000 cars parked at airport
> - Property prices slashed by 50 %
> - All gloom and more gloom


You made a grave error. You omitted the most important point. 

_No sex allowed on public beach's_

Its not allowed in any civilised country but for some insane reason should be allowed in the Dubai bashing list.:hilarious


----------



## Freestyler

I hear Emaar is laying off 80% of its workforce.


----------



## Bongoboots

Perhaps we should get an online petition up and running and when we have a sufficient number of signatories we could send it on to RERA, Aristocrat and The Press.
Anyone volunteering to draw up the petition?


----------



## Bimcnorth

Freestyler said:


> I hear Emaar is laying off 80% of its workforce.



There´s just 300 people working for Emaar..and I guess the sales and new project boys are not needed right now.


----------



## Freestyler

What is the current credit default swap spreads for Emaar and Nahkeel?

In Nov, Nakheel's default risk was 80%, see: http://zawya.com/printstory.cfm?storyid=ZAWYA20081106121612&l=121600081106


----------



## smussuw

Bimcnorth said:


> There´s just 300 people working for Emaar..and I guess the sales and new project boys are not needed right now.


only 300 working for Emaar?


----------



## HateTorch

Freestyler said:


> I hear Emaar is laying off 80% of its workforce.


Laying off 80% of workforce is a very severe sign.
As far as I understand, Emaar has several business units, eg hotels.
Maybe the 80% refers only to the real-estate business division ?


----------



## HappyLarry

--


----------



## Hanna

*Jumeirah Waves Business Towers*

Sunday, March 22, 2009
European investors seek RERA and government intervention in protracted dispute with Jumeirah Waves Business Towers project - Al Tayer source Zawya

Jumeirah Waves Business Towers project in Jumeirah Village South remains undeveloped more than two years after investors purchased units from developer.In Dubai who have bought units in the Jumeirah Waves Business Towers (JWBT), a commercial development project comprises 3 identical towers located in Jumeirah Village South (JVS), are urging government authorities in Dubai, Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) and master Developer of the JVS project, Nakheel, to intervene in an ongoing dispute with the project developer High Rise Properties, a protracted conflict that the complainants claim could potentially hurt the overall investor confidence in Dubai and ultimately deliver a negative impact on Dubai and the United Arab Emirates’investment landscape. A number of European investors revealed that the developer has not started any substantial work on the JWBT developments and has also been unwilling to entertain requests by investors for a refund and compensation since selling to them the units almost two and a half years ago.The affected investors claimed that up to 50 per cent of the entire units in the 3 towers have been sold out, while buyers have paid between 15 to 60 per cent of the total amount of their respective units. The complainants further said that they do not believe that the delay in the start of construction of the JWBT has been caused by the ongoing global financial crisis since construction work on the project was actually supposed to have started more than two years ago – at the height of the real estate boom in Dubai and the region."It has been more than two years since our group and other investors have purchased units in the JWBT development; but until now the project area is still undeveloped and the developer –High Rise Properties- has remained elusive and unable to give us a reasonable time table for the development. There is certainly a breakdown in transparency and accountability somewhere and we urge the concerned government authorities in Dubai, mainly RERA and Nakheel, to step in and resolve this problem before it goes out of hand and negatively affect investor confidence in Dubai," said Richard Moore, a representative of the affected European investors."High rise Properties have given a lot of excuses and promises, but nothing concrete has been done to at least make the investors feel that their investments are being safeguarded. It is not just the money that we have invested in this project that''s at stake here; this kind of attitude by a developer will certainly cause further damage to the reputation of Dubai''s real estate sector at a time when the industry is supposed to be consolidating its forces and building its image to limit the ill-effects of the global financial crisis," added Moore.The investors further pointed out that the JWBT developer, High Rise Properties, a company controlled by the influential and powerful Al Tayer family, has earlier made several excuses for being unable to start the project, including an alleged two-year delay in the turnover of the allocated land. The investors also claimed that the project has been registered with RERA, which makes the developer and its owner Abdul Hakim Al Tayer, fully accountable to the government. However, the complainants have urged concerned authorities to act swiftly and with full transparency on the matter as they fear that Al Tayer family may use its clout to influence the result of any investigation that may arise.
"Abdul Hakim Al Tayer and the management of High Rise Properties have been uncooperative and we are left with no other resource but to ask the government to help us settle this issue. Naturally, we can''t allow our investments to lay idle for an extended period without knowing what the future holds for the project. Moreover, there is obviously something wrong within this organisation considering it has been two years and they have not made any effort to push this project or reach a settlement with affected investors. Surely, the government must take a look at this case, considering its potential impact on the future of Dubai''s investment climate," concluded Moore.


----------



## Hanna

*Service charges Jumeirah Beach Residence*

Service charges Jumeirah Beach Residence 



Service charges will be adjusted accordingly after they are approved by the owners. (IMAD ALAEDDIN) 
By Sean Davidson on Monday, March 23, 2009 

Salwan Property Management will soon reduce its service charge at Jumeirah Beach Residence (JBR), said a company spokesperson.
"We have reviewed the situation and will be revising our service charge shortly. We will issue a formal statement, but in the interim, I can tell you that the rates will drop," the spokesperson told Emirates Business.
The company's response came after a JBR Residents Association filed a complaint with the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) that contested the 129 per cent increase in maintenance fees.In December 2008, the company informed residents that a new fee of Dh21.75 per square foot would be charged, effective September 2008, from the previous Dh9.5 per sqft.
In February, Rera had said that service charges for existing buildings, which have been handed over, will be frozen at the rates that were applicable in the year 2008 unless the 2009 rates are less or have been approved by the agency.The freeze will last until the first general assembly of the owners' association (OA), which will have to be held within three months of registration.Service charges for buildings that are about to be handed over, or are in the process of being handed over, will be subject to approval by Rera and after approval will apply until the first general assembly of the owners' association.Owners in both categories of buildings will be required to pay the relevant service charges until the owners approve, with or without amendment, the service charges at the first general assembly.Service charges, which have already been paid by owners for 2009, will be adjusted accordingly after the service charges are approved by the OA.Developers or managers currently managing jointly owned properties (such as buildings or villa communities) must continue to manage such properties until the first general assembly at which time they must present a proper budget for consideration by owners, said Rera Chief Executive Officer Marwan bin Ghalita.


----------



## 234sale

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/550285-are-estate-agents-the-smartest-guys-in-town
Are estate agents the smartest guys in town?


----------



## Hanna

*Emaar Properties*

Monday 23 Mar, 2009 

Emaar Properties is 'considering' cutting 250 jobs as the real estate sector in Dubai suffers a downturn amid the global economic crisis, said a report.
The company has also slapped pay cuts of between 20 and 30 per cent on its employees’ wages since early March, London-based MEED magazine reported, citing unnamed Emaar employees. The job cuts would reduce Emaar’s total workforce to around 50 employees after it laid off around 200 employees in November, MEED said. The developer said yesterday it was unable to comment at this time. Emaar posted a fourth-quarter loss of dhs1.77 billion ($481.9 million) due to writedowns from its US unit John Laing Homes.


----------



## camelrider

we need to act together & our interests are the same!

Has anyone tried posting in the blog?

Its blocked I guess.....

typical UAE!


----------



## tehsin123

*08:46 23Mar09 -DJ Dubai Emaar Ppties Denies Report That Will Cut Employees To 50<EMAR.DU>*
DJ Dubai Emaar Ppties Denies Report That Will Cut Employees To 50<EMAR.DU> 

DUBAI (Zawya Dow Jones)--Emaar Properties PJSC (EMAAR.AI) Monday denied a MEED media report saying that the developer will reduce the number of people employed by the company from 300 to 50. 
"With reference to recent media reports on its human resources restructuring, 
Emaar Properties clarifies that the company currently has over 2,500 employees in Dubai and a further 2,500 staff members in its various international joint ventures," an Emaar spokesperson told Zawya Dow Jones. 
On Saturday, London-based MEED magazine reported that Emaar is considering a second round of job cuts that will reduce the number of people employed by the company from 300 to 50. 
The proposed job cuts follow salary reviews in early March when staff were forced to take reductions in pay of 20-30%, MEED reported. 
"Emaar is committed to enhancing our long-term profitability to add value to our stakeholders. To address the new challenges that we face, it is important to reorient our growth strategies and align our business model to tackle new realities," the Emaar spokesperson said Monday without giving further details. 
Emaar shares closed up 1.5% at AED2.09 on the Dubai Financial Market Sunday.


----------



## AITU

^^ There goes any credibility that MEED ever had.....how can their editors allow such basic errors to be published in their articles such as Emaar only having 50 employees?


----------



## AppleMac

sidxb said:


> In short ,
> -people are leaving Dubai which is sad BUT dubai is not yet empty !
> -


I wish some would leave - the tailback on the SZR last night was as bad as I have ever experienced.


----------



## Freestyler

Around 500 people from around the country took part in the survey.

Over half of the respondents still believe property values in the UAE are still too high.

With prices dropping, however, people still can't buy without the much-needed mortgages.

The report also indicated that 27 per cent of those questioned in the UAE have property as a current investment.

Analysts have also said that mortgages won't be easily accessible in the market until property prices in Dubai come down to mid-income levels.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10297288.html


----------



## Freestyler

camelrider said:


> we need to act together & our interests are the same!
> 
> Has anyone tried posting in the blog?
> 
> Its blocked I guess.....
> 
> typical UAE!


works for me. It is not blocked.


----------



## williteverbebuiltnow

Freestyler said:


> What is the current credit default swap spreads for Emaar and Nahkeel?
> 
> In Nov, Nakheel's default risk was 80%, see: http://zawya.com/printstory.cfm?storyid=ZAWYA20081106121612&l=121600081106



Spreads are coming in a bit on Dubai and related govt entities... last month dubai 5yr was 940/980 now quoted 650/680. 

Nakheel only trades in the 1yr and is 18/20 upfront down from 50/55 upfront

So things are getting better

That said 680 for Dubai 5yr still implies a 45% chance of default...down from 50%.....


----------



## AppleMac

Freestyler said:


> Analysts have also said that mortgages won't be easily accessible in the market until property prices in Dubai come down to mid-income levels.


I doubt that liquidity will return in any meaningful amount whatever the price of property until the world economy stabilises.


----------



## legal eagle

*double up and beat the crunch *

A little off topic...

Being a fool and a big fan of starbux- I happen to end up placing an order in a few of their franchises a few times a day.

Yes they often miss out special requests and yes the order often needs repeating several times...


but now I have had bills inflated at 3 of my last 5 visits and each of them different outlets.

*First time I thought this was a mistake.*
*
Second *one we had a large order and questioned it, they had doubled up a single latte and again with a single cappucino so I was paying for two.

When the order came they had only made one of each- which sort of implied it was a scam...

Apologised and gave me cash back as had paid by card.



On the third order the starbux team changed the names slightly of the drinks we ordered to ones that were a little more expensive and thenwent on to place double orders on some muffins and waters we wanted.

As I was asking for the receipt, the girl was doing everything she could to hide the itemisd bill and hand over my card receipt and cash receipt...

After a lot of timewasting manager hands it over, apologises as we start to see double ups of nearly everything. 

I look at him and say if this is not a scam my friend there will be two muffins in that oven- 


gents there was but one....


----------



## camelrider

Spurs said:


> Wasn't it yesterday that Aristocrat signed the contractors to build???
> 
> I feel investors *have left it to late *to get together and present their case hno:



Better late than NEVER!..... although I can understand you in a way.. as this place is a WHOLE JUNGLE!!


----------



## dbxdude

There is alot of this going on. Barasity serve water insteads of vodka more often then not. So many people complain they dont even question it now and just add extra shots.... 

also with regards to starbucks, go with costa, i used to love star bucks but they now brew coffee in big batches and not per cup... paying 17 dhs a coffee is bad enough, biut for stewed coffee its outrageous... 

also ladies gents check your bar bills everywhere.... if your going to get smashed, take cash.... so many places adding thing on cards... but this has always been the case if they think your drunk.... so im told 

My tips for the credit crunch... by a coffee machine and take cash to clubs... dont run up a tab.


----------



## baba toto

I got a letter from DEC informing me that the Anticipated Completion Date for the project has been rescheduled to 30/9/2010.

I purchased the unit in 2006 by paying 50% in advance and 50% payable on completion.  However in their letter, DEC has revised my payment terms, with payment now due in July 09, Nov '09, March '10, June '10, final one on completion.:bash:

Is this a joke or what? How can they do this?:bash:

Has anyone else received a letter???hno:


----------



## luluprovence

legal eagle said:


> also music and a sense of humour is a clean way to beat the crunch...
> 
> Rory Gallagher was fantastique... pity I can't find the green smiley on here!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *edited to add* Wouldn't be doing soulful Rory Gallagher any justice without mentioning his history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Gallagher.


----------



## sarwa123

Guys let us meet asap (what about thursday 2 pm @MOE second cub)


----------



## sarwa123

let us meet this coming thursday 2 pm @ MOE Secodnd cub.


----------



## Safrica

hi
Just got back from dubai, comparing my last trip around 6 months ago to now it was like being in a different place.
100s of cranes, all standing still.
No traffic jams 
Getting a taxi in 5 mins at peak hour in deira
No wait for a taxi at city centre
Malls with customer at the food courts and no where else
Taxi drivers complaining of extremely slow business
2 expats we met telling us on how they need to leave the country without paying there bills, not because they want to, but because the companies they were working for did not pay them and there are no jobs. 
And many of the similar storys ive read on this forum
Basically if you own any property thats not completed for the time being you screwed.
However it would be selfish of me to complain on my losses in the property market but looking at the bigger picture Dubai needed this to slowdown to implement its overdue structures.
It seems that its rich neighbours are waiting for the absolute bottom to purchase for nothing and if you can read the market just before this happens you can again make a fortune.
I havent the guts.


----------



## speculator

dbxdude said:


> also with regards to starbucks, go with costa, i used to love star bucks but they now brew coffee in big batches and not per cup... paying 17 dhs a coffee is bad enough, biut for stewed coffee its outrageous...


Totally agreed. Starbucks seem to use a cheap coffee bean whereas costa tastes like real coffee.

Oh and my tip for the credit crunch is give up coffee and clubbing.

Anyway back on topic. Whats the rental price index looking like today.


----------



## speculator

Safrica said:


> It seems that its rich neighbours are waiting for the absolute bottom to purchase for nothing and if you can read the market just before this happens you can again make a fortune.
> I havent the guts.


Uhmm.... so there is money to be made again. Dont need any guts for that; just patience which I haven't got !


----------



## 9714

dbxdude. just checking but you do know that the city abbreviation for dubai is dxb and not dbx. right??


----------



## mrobbie

anyone think that the worst of the problems is past, or are all the positives at the moment (all markets seem to be on an upward trend, oil above $50, GBP:USD moving back towards 'normality') going to be short-lived? Some big movements in the stock markets, such as Bank of America and Citigroup in the last 2 weeks or so which could mean something positive???


----------



## tehsin123

*Best Countries For Business*

Here is interesting Forbes report. UAE is 46th in 127 countries survey. Bahrain is top GCC, then Oman, Qatar, Saudi and UAE.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/6/...usiness_Best-Countries-for-Business_Rank.html


----------



## dbxdude

9714 said:


> dbxdude. just checking but you do know that the city abbreviation for dubai is dxb and not dbx. right??


yep. i know that. its a bit of comedy.


----------



## dbxdude

mrobbie said:


> anyone think that the worst of the problems is past, or are all the positives at the moment (all markets seem to be on an upward trend, oil above $50, GBP:USD moving back towards 'normality') going to be short-lived? Some big movements in the stock markets, such as Bank of America and Citigroup in the last 2 weeks or so which could mean something positive???


for dubai... i think the worst is past, or will be soon. not sure about any huge rebound in property but the big declines have finished... 50-60% decline means if it falls like that again its for free  At the end of the day, there will be alot of completed cheap commercial and residential real-estate with good infrastructure - alot of companies will find this attractive, the region offers good growth potential and if your going to be doing business in ME then you want to be based in Dubai. 6-8 of growth coming to Dubai.


----------



## pcheesman

With reference to the stock markets around the world. I think we will have 1 more swing down in the summer, with a bottoming out in the autumn, before the start of the a longer term climb back up. 

This is why i wont buy property at the moment. I think perhaps Cityscape 2009 will be the earliest I would seriously consider doing so. But it would depend upon the economic situation.

I have faith in the long term future of Dubai, but just have to be patient.

The US$ will collapse because of the inflationary policies that are being implemented now, so that will bring back investors from Europe etc with the better exchange rate.


----------



## rexdmx

^^ funny crystal ball in your cupboard. dont bother predicting


----------



## dubaimarina2008

Stephan23 said:


> On hold, for real??? :hm:


This project is so much late. hno:

How many % you have already paid?


----------



## pcheesman

yes i was trained by Mystic Meg herself!


----------



## Spurs

sarwa123 said:


> let us meet this coming thursday 2 pm @ MOE Secodnd cub.


The plan of action should be to draw up a petition, get eveybody to sigh it and then take this to the lands department, the more people to come the better.,,,,also press turning up i'm sure would help.

I was given the below lawyer and tryied to contact him but he did not answer, I am told he is forming a case:

Alex Watson
Head of Corporate Services
M.A.C Davidson & Associates Legal Consultants

Suite 503,
Shangri la Office Building
Sheikh Zayed Road
Dubai

Tel: +971 4 3438897
Fax: +971 4 3438879
Mob: +971 50 5517924

www.macdavidson.com


----------



## AppleMac

pcheesman said:


> The US$ will collapse because of the inflationary policies that are being implemented now, so that will bring back investors from Europe etc with the better exchange rate.


Given the collapse in the economies in the Euro Zone what makes you think that Europe will not follow the US inflationary policies sooner or later?


----------



## luluprovence

mrobbie said:


> anyone think that the worst of the problems is past, or are all the positives at the moment (all markets seem to be on an upward trend, oil above $50, GBP:USD moving back towards 'normality') going to be short-lived? Some big movements in the stock markets, such as Bank of America and Citigroup in the last 2 weeks or so which could mean something positive???


mr robbie do you think that oil would reach $170 or would it be clubbed at $162 amidst all the positives at the moment?


----------



## Garden city

tehsin123 said:


> Here is interesting Forbes report. UAE is 46th in 127 countries survey. Bahrain is top GCC, then Oman, Qatar, Saudi and UAE.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/6/...usiness_Best-Countries-for-Business_Rank.html


Bahrain is usually ranked above other GCC countries when it comes to doing business and transperancy. Bahrain banking industry most importantly is very mature and some open minded policies by the government there show tht u need not be big in order to be the best.

But with all that said i just hope people realise the fact that Dubai has been very good at marketing itself and just because u get to see huge adverts and campaigns about Dubai doesn't mean that other countries are not doing anything.

Good that guys at Forbes don't get influenced by Dubai's PR


----------



## HappyLarry

pcheesman said:


> ....
> The US$ will collapse because of the inflationary policies that are being implemented now, so that will bring back investors from Europe etc with the better exchange rate.


And what policies are the Europeans following that are different to the US which would result in Europeans coming out better?

Without US economy working the way it has been for the past 70 years, there is little hope for any nation. It is in everyone's interest to keep the $ range bound. So, I certainly do not subscribe to the collapse of the $.


----------



## pcheesman

AppleMac said:


> Given the collapse in the economies in the Euro Zone what makes you think that Europe will not follow the US inflationary policies sooner or later?


Because not only has America been massively increasing spending but also many people outside the US have been buying US$ backed bonds etc as they see it as a safe haven. e.g. China, UAE etc

These things do not go on forever. The financial markets work in cycles like everything else. We are due a correction and I believe this will start this year because of US government spending etc.

You are right to say that Europe will also increase spending but there will be inflationary pressure but I think the US is on a different scale.

I don't think we have been told the complete story yet over the seriousness of the situation, which is why I think there will be one more swing down on the stock market before we finally turn around. 

What we are seeing now is a 'bear market' correction.


----------



## paul66

*Dubai property investors must not expect fast returns*

24/MAR/2009
*Dubai property investors must not expect fast returns*

_By Hussain Sajwani, Gulf News_

The recent events in the global economy have created panic among investors. The public has lost confidence and they do not want to consider venturing into new investments.

Moreover, the credit crunch has left them struggling, trying to liquidate their investments to release cash. Dubai, as one of the key financial hubs in the world, is currently experiencing mixed reviews from economists, investors and opinion leaders.

The fear of losing further has gripped investors and has refrained individuals from investing in or purchasing property.

However, this is the time to invest. There are no two ways about this fact. History has proven that individuals who respond to a new market revolution in a timely manner, planning for an upturn during a downturn emerge successful within the market.

The paradigm has changed. One should not expect overnight returns. It was a dream run when many made millions. It is time to change perspectives and invest with a long term vision. The ones who understand this and act upon it will do well again.

The current market correction presents an opportunity. The current scenario seems painful in the short term but such fluctuations are part of the natural cycle of a growing and maturing property market. No market can beat the supply and demand battle - the market will stabilise and will grow. The underlying demand for property in the ME region is very strong compared to other parts of the world. Hence, companies will continue to want to do business here.

Given the age-old boom and bust nature of real estate markets, smart investors are always ready to change their strategy and adapt to the current market conditions.

Today the gain is in the longer term and if one has the access to cash or a mortgage they should consider this opportunity seriously.

I believe the premium time for holding a property investment will probably now be five to seven years upwards and generally the longer one holds, the more he will make. Long term investment in property will not only generate capital growth but also generate ongoing rental income.

Global research indicates that property attractive to long term tenants generates a yield ranging from 12 to 16 per cent. The benefits of purchasing property in the region today, extend further than just the price advantage offered by the market today.

This therefore leads us to look at another issue - if the UAE an attractive market to long term tenants - when it has been synonymous with those looking to spend much shorter times here working on two or three-year contracts?

Let's look at the future...in the next decade Dubai will become one of world's best planned cities. Not only will the infrastructure get better with the introduction of the long awaited Metro, but also with new faster roads links and increased air travel capacity. However, there will be further benefits from government investments in education, culture, history, and diversification.

In addition to this, the number of tourist attractions continues to grow with bigger and better shopping malls, a new sports city complex and top name chefs still opening new restaurants here. So to me, it is not a case of 'if' Dubai will bounce back, but when and how high?

Furthermore, the region will always remain the gateway between East and West, and build on its reputation as an important strategic location for tourism and international business. Even though we have seen a reduction in the short term number of international business entrants to the region, this is only a temporary glitch in a long-term up-curve.

Having said this, investment, risks and returns travel together. Hence the understanding of the equation of investment and risks decides the returns.

One needs to understand the local, political environment, the possible conflicts, the governing laws, and several other such examples. Besides these factors, one also needs to evaluate personal and financial standing and the anticipated changes in the future.

Whilst history will always show the UAE to be one of the biggest success stories in the development of overseas property in the past decade, I firmly believe that it has so much more to see and achieve.

Whilst the global recession continues to affect everyone, it is important to understand that it also provides a new opportunity for us to realise - the future is inevitably bright as Dubai will have its golden days again.

source: http://www.tigerzilla.com/properties/news/dubai-property-investors-must-not-expect-fast-returns.html


----------



## Garden city

paul66 said:


> 24/MAR/2009
> *Dubai property investors must not expect fast returns*
> 
> _By *Hussain Sajwani*, Gulf News_
> 
> [/url]


The name says it all, its Damac trying to get people to buy their properties :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## HappyLarry

Garden city said:


> The name says it all, its Damac trying to get people to buy their properties :lol::lol::lol:


Those who continue to sit on their hands, waiting for the so called bottom for Dubai property prices will come to realise that they have missed a great buying opportunity.
Yes, we have seen knee jerk reactions to global credit crunch crisis but the fundamentals for Dubai have not changed.
Smart money has been buying up distressed sales and discounted projects which are under development.
I have no doubt that Dubai will soon start receiving more favourable press, especially from Europe.


----------



## Red Snowman

Those with 'smart money' should wait another few months - prices will undoubtedly fall further.


----------



## tehsin123

HappyLarry said:


> Yes, we have seen knee jerk reactions to global credit crunch crisis but the fundamentals for Dubai have not changed.


I don't agree when you say fundamentals haven't changed. These HAVE changed drastically towards negative:
- Residence visa policy is changed, no clear or long term visa in sight.
- Many real-estate and property companies have been exposed for fraudulent activities, so trust is seriously in question.
- Banks have tightened their credit policies and no sight that they will come back to their past policies, once-bitten-twice-shy.
-Quick flip-flap profit opportunities will never be seen, one of most important reason for buyers to jump in.

I think these were the key fundamentals for buyers to look at Dubai property. Tell me if I am wrong. What other positive factors you think have replaced these?


----------



## bizzybonita

Red Snowman said:


> Those with 'smart money' should wait another few months - prices will undoubtedly fall further.


i don't think so... it's only in papers !


----------



## bizzybonita

*Good news*

*«Economic Development» expects real growth in gross domestic product by 2%*











Mohammed bin Rashid: The state is able to shake the dust of the economic crisis


Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister and Ruler of Dubai, to «our dear unable to shake the dust of the global economic crisis, and the promotion of the new faith and determination of its people and institutions capable of innovation and challenge, and overcome all the crises, as in the past» .

This came during his attendance at a meeting of the Dubai Executive Council yesterday at the Emirates Towers, under the chairmanship of HH Sheikh Hamdan bin Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Crown Prince of Dubai, President of the Board and in the presence of His Highness Sheikh Maktoum bin Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Deputy Ruler of Dubai, Vice President of the Executive Board .

The His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid, Vice President and President and Executive Board members need to work as one team and interact with the groups and all segments of the community, through field work to determine the needs of service facilities and infrastructure to develop and work to provide the best services and Orkaha to members of the community and visitors from outside the State.

He ordered the authorities to develop tourism facilities and the revitalization of local cultural programs and recreational and cultural attraction for tourists in order to build a tourist industry, enhance the status of the UAE and Dubai, favorite tourist destination in the world.

The Executive Council discussed at its meeting yesterday, a number of topics and issues of local development and service, which dealt with the strategic plan for the Department of Economic Development of the Year, 2009, which aims to create an enabling environment for sustainable economic development and access to high levels of social and economic prosperity, through work on the development of legislation and domestic economic policies to cope and update the new phase. The Strategic Plan focuses on the preparation of the Chamber and the development of policy and legislation, economic and customer service and common services. And in the strategy proposes the establishment of a database of the total economy of the Emirate of Dubai, and the modernization of laws and mechanisms to link dealers and advanced information systems and develop channels of communication with them and the issuance of periodic reports related to human resources, finance and information technology. *Briefed the Executive Board discussed the strategy of economic development on the overall output target circle of growth in real GDP by 2% this year,* and to identify the economic priorities of the Principality and to work towards its implementation, as well as strengthening the role of the media to highlight the true picture of the development sector economic actors and to take steps to ensure that the full protection of the consumer, in addition to improving the investment climate and encourage local investors and expatriates. The HH Sheikh Hamdan bin Mohammed bin Rashid closely the efforts and effectiveness of voluntary participation in the World «Earth hour», which put out the lights, and places of public facilities and homes on a voluntary basis, saying that his commitment to the implementation of the Global Initiative reflects our society and promoted awareness of the importance of preserving and protecting the environment.

http://www.emaratalyoum.com/Articles/2009/3/Pages/03242009_bfa6107393e04c90a8b2403c7aef8af5.aspx


----------



## paul66

tehsin123 said:


> I don't agree when you say fundamentals haven't changed. These HAVE changed drastically towards negative:
> - Residence visa policy is changed, no clear or long term visa in sight.
> - Many real-estate and property companies have been exposed for fraudulent activities, so trust is seriously in question.
> - Banks have tightened their credit policies and no sight that they will come back to their past policies, once-bitten-twice-shy.
> -Quick flip-flap profit opportunities will never be seen, one of most important reason for buyers to jump in.
> 
> I think these were the key fundamentals for buyers to look at Dubai property. Tell me if I am wrong. What other positive factors you think have replaced these?


- Residence visa policy - This is being looked into and will now give a clearer picture with a federal law so will not be linked to developer which is a hassle anyway!

- Many real-estate and property companies have been exposed for fraudulent activities - Name a country that has not had any fraudulent activity...s**t happens.

- Banks have tightened their credit policies and no sight that they will come back to their past policies - Giving out 120% mortgages should never be an option, when the banks start lending (and of course they will), those who can afford to buy a property and keep it for a while they will be given mortgages - they always have!

-Quick flip-flap profit opportunities will never be seen - Thank god for that, because flipping clearly is NOT a good thing for a market. Do you ever hear of people flipping a property in the UK which is being built? No. because people should only buy property if they will be using it one way or another.

I think....sorry... I know Dubai will be a great place to be, give it a couple of years for all these rif-raf flippers to be bought out by genuine buyers as they clearly cannot afford it!


----------



## AITU

Gov't jumpstarts lending to Dubai businesses
by Jack Reerink and John Tuesday, 24 March 2009 

MONEY LENDING: The first $10bn tranche of Dubai government's bond scheme has been earmarked for some of the emirate's largest companies.Funds from the Dubai government’s $10bn bond will target Dubai World, Dubai Holding and domestic firms in the emirate's sovereign wealth fund's portfolio, the emirate's finance department head said on Tuesday.

A five-man fiscal committee, headed by Emirates airline chairman Sheikh Ahmed bin Saaed Al Maktoum, was established a month ago to assess the companies' requirements and decide how the funds would be used, Nasser Al Shaikh said in an interview on Tuesday.

"We will not wait to support the companies, there are urgent requirements that need to be dealt with quickly," he said. 

"There is no free lunch; we will be helping companies on commercial terms."

Shaikh said the funds would begin flowing in the next few weeks and said non-bank financial advisors would help allocate the financing to avoid "conflict of interests."

Dubai secured $10bn from the UAE Central Bank a month ago for what will become a $20bn. 

Ratings agency Standard & Poors believes the Central Bank will also provide the remaining $10bn when required.

Dubai property prices have been under pressure since late last year, when the global financial crisis and a slump in oil prices ended an economic boom in the Gulf region.

Hundreds of billions of dollars of expansion projects have since been suspended or cancelled in the UAE. 

Dubai companies have laid off thousands of employees and UAE banks have been loath to extend new mortgage loans.

Local banks, including Islamic institutions, have also submitted proposals to the government to provide assistance to small and medium enterprises, Shaikh said. 

"For us it's like driving a car with poor visibility: We can only see 10 to 15 meters ahead," he said. 

"We will have to revisit our plans and stay focused on the short-term challenges."

Emaar Properties, the largest listed UAE property developer, has not held discussions with the government as it "believes it can handle it (the situation)."

The government is also set to appoint an international PR firm as part of its plans to collate all Dubai's economic data on the web. 

"We are working on improving the economic data," Shaikh said. "There are different reasons for rumours in Dubai but once the information is out there it will kill them. (Reuters) 


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/550527-govt-jumpstarts-lending-to-dubai-businesses


----------



## IISinbadII

paul66 said:


> - Residence visa policy - This is being looked into and will now give a clearer picture with a federal law so will not be linked to developer which is a hassle anyway!


Too late, too little!

They should not have taken the U-turn in the first place. Now they will have to announce something like "Make Dubai your second home and get a 740i free.....please, please, please".


----------



## sarwa123

Mr.Spurs and all :
I will be waiting at MOE second cub thursday @ 2 pm
plz let me know if any one coming ,We r running out of time .


----------



## HappyLarry

IISinbadII said:


> Too late, too little!
> 
> They should not have taken the U-turn in the first place. Now they will have to announce something like "Make Dubai your second home and get a 740i free.....please, please, please".


The Visa 'carrot' is not a deal breaker for majority of the investors. Those who wish to make money are probably happy where they are residing because that place allows them to make such an investment.


----------



## tehsin123

HappyLarry said:


> The Visa 'carrot' is not a deal breaker for majority of the investors. Those who wish to make money are probably happy where they are residing because that place allows them to make such an investment.


But my friend, gone are the days when Dubai property will be used to make money as stocks. It will not be wise to expect that.
Now when this property market comes back it will be real property market like any other country, rising/falling around inflation rate +/-


----------



## luluprovence

mrobbie said:


> Can't see it getting back to $80, let alone $170 for a long time yet. It wasn't that long ago that oil companies were delighted with the oil price at $40 - I worked in an oil company that had its highest bonus payments with $40 oil.
> 
> Its on the good side of $50 at the moment, and I reckon it may slide up to $60 in about 2-3 months


1. $$oil dollar 
if oil companies were indeed delighted with the $40 tag then why were the members agitated at the Vienna Summit? they said that even $45 was not sufficient i.e. to develop the oil fields [in terms of future oil expansion and meeting country targets etcetera]. However Saudi was content with $xx being a fair price. Do you remember what was that fair price?

2. bonus payments
in oil companies are bonus payments made out every month / quarter?

3. oil sliding up next quarter
is this slide property related or related to the US economy or ???


----------



## luluprovence

bizzybonita; any updates on the rental index?


----------



## Spurs

luluprovence said:


> 1. $$oil dollar
> if oil companies were indeed delighted with the $40 tag then why were the members agitated at the Vienna Summit? they said that even $45 was not sufficient i.e. to develop the oil fields [in terms of future oil expansion and meeting country targets etcetera]. However Saudi was content with $xx being a fair price. Do you remember what was that fair price?
> 
> 2. bonus payments
> in oil companies are bonus payments made out every month / quarter?
> 
> 3. oil sliding up next quarter
> is this slide property related or related to the US economy or ???


Different countries have different break even points.


----------



## Thorneyvilla1

dbxdude said:


> The beach is easily the best in Dubai, free from spectators in landcruisers, pool, beach bars etc.


I think many would argue that. Thanks to the breakwater the sea here is always still and lifeless, more akin to a lake. Sure the facilities are good but I'd argue its the most boring beach in Dubai, give me waves anyday.


----------



## bizzybonita

luluprovence said:


> bizzybonita; any updates on the rental index?


New rental index due out in April ...

*Source RERA*


Dubai's real estate regulator has announced it is due to publish a new rental index in April in a bid to help tenants and landlords.

Officials from the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) say it is aimed at making the market more realistic and follows a huge protest over the rental values included in the original index published last month.
The index, which gives tenants and landlords in Dubai a guide to what rent levels should be throughout Dubai should be, was originally scheduled to be republished every six months.

Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive of RERA, has predicted that rents in the emirate could fall by as much as 50 percent this year, depending on location.

"The rents have already begun to come down. Depending on the locations, this could range from 10, 20 to up to 50 per cent by the end of the year," he said in comments published by UAE daily Gulf News on Thursday.

However, due to slowdown and delay, around 20 per cent of the 31,000-plus residential units may not come online this year.

There is also a 40 per cent decrease in the 43,880 units forecast to come online in 2010.

The value of Dubai real estate transactions so far this year has fallen 45 percent to $4bn in the first two months of 2008, the land department said on Wednesday.

The first rental index was released in January and caused anger among tenants who said the rental rates quoted in it were based on last year's rents, before the financial crisis hit, when rents were at their highest.


----------



## luluprovence

*Q* = question



bizzybonita said:


> New rental index due out in April ...
> *Source RERA*
> 
> Dubai's real estate regulator has announced it is due to publish a new rental index in April in a bid to help tenants and landlords.


-for tenants this is good news.
*Q*-not sure how this will help landlords in terms of leasing our properties?



bizzybonita said:


> *Source RERA*The index, which gives tenants and landlords in Dubai a guide to what rent levels should be throughout Dubai should be, was originally scheduled to be republished every six months.


every 1/4 is an even better idea and hopefully RERA are working towards this? :dunno: *Q*what is your opinion?



bizzybonita said:


> *Source RERA*Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive of RERA, has predicted that rents in the emirate could fall by as much as 50 percent this year, depending on location.
> 
> "The rents have already begun to come down. Depending on the locations, this could range from 10, 20 to up to 50 per cent by the end of the year," he said in comments published by UAE daily Gulf News on Thursday.


*Q*!!! any positive news / links on this front to show that actual rentals are not infact falling.



bizzybonita said:


> *Source RERA*However, due to slowdown and delay, around 20 per cent of the 31,000-plus residential units may not come online this year. There is also a 40 per cent decrease in the 43,880 units forecast to come online in 2010.


*Q* which projects are these?



bizzybonita said:


> *Source RERA*The value of Dubai real estate transactions so far this year has fallen 45 percent to $4bn in the first two months of 2008, the land department said on Wednesday.


thanks for the update bizzybonita.


----------



## luluprovence

Spurs said:


> Different countries have different break even points.


can you expand on your comment?


----------



## bizzybonita

Long-term outlook for property remains positive 

on Wednesday, March 25, 2009

The long-term outlook for Dubai remains positive with the emirate currently offering a range of options for "opportunistic" investors.

Yields are also likely to increase in the medium term even though capital values decrease ahead of rental values, said a new report.

"As with other markets, Dubai is expected to see a flight to quality, which will make the selection of high quality well located assets with a stable long-term income stream of paramount importance in sustaining value for investors," Jones Lang LaSalle (JLL) said in its March House View on Mena real estate.

However, real estate developers in the Middle East and North Africa (Mena) will have to move from "develop and sell" business model to one based on "securing tenancies and holding assets" to gain sustainable long-term income flows.

Although the market in the region has showed "signs of recovery" over the past three months, JLL said it expects "2010 to remain a year of relative stability before the markets experience an upturn as they move into the recovery stage during 2011."

"New market conditions now demand a new business model. This new business model is likely to see the Mena markets become more like those in more mature western economies, with a shift away from a short-term trading mentality to a long-term perspective focussing on the quality of the income stream generated from the completed property."

JLL said the current shortage of liquidity to speed up the pace by which real estate markets across Mena transition to a more mature, global model of financing for both development and investment.

The previous business model, with development being funded largely through off-plan sales and developer finance, has proved successful in fast tracking the pace of development and has allowed markets across Mena to develop much more quickly than those elsewhere in the world.

"The path to this new investment paradigm will be challenging. While there will inevitably be short-term pain as prices continue to adjust downwards over the next six months, the region is well positioned to emerge with a stronger, more transparent, better regulated and more sustainable pattern of real estate development and investment in the longer term."

During the transition period, the local markets will diverge with a more distinct pattern of winners and losers, with those properties that are well located, well maintained and well marketed retaining their value relative to the general market. This transition will undoubtedly provide significant opportunities for those investors with access to finance who are able to adopt a long-term investment horizon, said the report.

JLL expects that after this transition period, the region will be "well positioned to emerge with a stronger, more transparent, better regulated and more sustainable pattern of real estate development and investment in the longer term".

According to the report, no recovery in the Mena's real estate markets can be expected until confidence returns. The company identified a total of 17 primary factors that influence the level of sentiment or confidence across the region.

"While some of these influences have now stabilised, none of them are yet showing any signs of a sustained recovery. None of the requirements listed yet have therefore yet reached the achieved status [green light].

"This reinforces our view that real estate markets are likely to decline further during the year 2009 before stabilising in 2010 and recovering in 2011."

A prerequisite for any real estate market recovery is for the global financial markets to be recapitalised.

Governments around the world have intervened to re-capitalise the banks and those in the Gulf have made considerable and concerted efforts to underpin the financial sector over the past two months with significant levels of liquidity being injected directly or indirectly.

There is also some $2 billion (Dh7.3bn) of equity that was raised for real estate investment across the region over the first three quarters of 2008 that is currently waiting in the wings.

"Much of this capital is now seeking deployment opportunities as investors seek to take advantage of distressed asset sales, which are becoming available on an opportunistic basis."

Additional capital is beginning to pool as investors regain their balance and refocus on regional opportunities. Some previously internationally oriented investment funds are being redirected to the region.

Institutional investors are now looking more strategically at assets with long-term contractual income generally with five- to 10-year leases with strong covenants.

Smaller deal sizes are more attractive owing to restricted debt markets and more limited and valued equity.

"This is leading to increased interest in alternative asset classes including industrial and work force accommodation as well as deals in the education, healthcare and infrastructure related sectors."

The credit crisis has resulted in a severe downturn in demand for commercial office space in most cities across the region.

Demand has slowed to a trickle and many of the larger corporate requirements that were looking to lease or pre-lease space over the first three quarters of last year have turned into potential requirements with time-lines being pushed out to 2010.

While vacancies remain minimal in Abu Dhabi, Riyadh and Jeddah, they have increased significantly in Dubai where vacancies now exceed 15 per cent, resulting in rents halving in some locations.

"This is clearly a positive for those occupiers looking to expand their operations as landlords have come to recognise the value of their tenant's covenant and are now becoming more accommodating of tenant's needs for lower costs, better facilities and long-term leases."

http://business24-7.ae/articles/2009/3/pages/03252009_df7773d0cf6242a2bae0a025315b2b5f.aspx


----------



## paul66

*Feel Good Factor*

Has anyone noticed the change in sentiment in property forums. Not just this one, but all the popular property forums are now less bitchy towards their property purchase. People have calmed down.

This is definately a sign of the economy turning around now there is a feel good factor.

- Stock markets rising 15-20% worldwide
- Oil prices staying above $50
- Lots of good news or at least better than expected news coming out every day.
- More and more mortgages being lent worldwide
- Graphs showing price of property in most countries seem to have a soft landing after spirralling downwards from the sky! so the only way now is up!

If i had any more money I would love to buy another apartment in Dubai at these prices!

Anyone want to get in?....we should all buy together!

Paul


----------



## rexdmx

luluprovence said:


> can you expand on your comment?


i think what he means to say is based on the cost of renting rigs, personnel and long term contracts, the prices of $40 may no be sufficient plus the possibility of having to go down deeper which needs more investment in terms of infrastructure and technology.

plus in some countries that are seriously under developed, the price of 40$ would be insufficient like iran that has sanctions


----------



## dbxdude

Thorneyvilla1 said:


> I think many would argue that. Thanks to the breakwater the sea here is always still and lifeless, more akin to a lake. Sure the facilities are good but I'd argue its the most boring beach in Dubai, give me waves anyday.


They just installed a wave machine at the end of the beach .... 

Ok, but when QE2 gets there and we have a night club on the beach... 

not to mention casion and topless girls.... 

ok ok, no waves i concede that, but at least u have a bar... name me a beach in dubai that has that except if u pay to use a hotel...


----------



## dbxdude

*THIS IS HUGE!!!!*



Hanna said:


> Wednesday, March 25, 2009
> Dubai Property Court - Developer must repay 7.4 Million AED
> 
> source The National 25 March 2009
> 
> DUBAI // A property developer has been ordered by the Dubai Real Estate Court to return Dh7.4 million (US$1.38m) on the sale of several apartments to a buyer after failing to register the sale with the Dubai Land Department’s property register.The court ruled the sale null and void yesterday and ordered the developer to pay nine per cent interest to the buyer on the money from the date of the sale last April. The developer must also pay the full court costs.According to a statement issued by the Dubai Courts Department, the ruling is the first of its kind to cancel a property sale since the court was established last August.In his summary, the presiding judge, Omar Miran, said the law stipulates that any transfer of ownership or other property transaction not registered in either the land department’s property register or its preliminary property register is null and void.The law gives developers a 60-day grace period to register all property sales concluded before that date. Failure to do so also renders the sale null and void.
> The sale in this case was concluded on April 8. The buyer filed his case on Jan 21 this year, asking the court to order the developer to refund the money he had paid for the apartments plus 12 per cent interest.


THIS IS AMAZING, I CANT BELIEVE IT. BRILLIANT A PRESIDENT.


----------



## NAB

Baba Toto, i will be going to the site next week so will check Lawns III also. Though i have not got any such letter yet, the least what can be said is most of (if not all) the Lawns constructions have just about started, so the completion date cannot be before mid 2010 anyways. (With this letter, DEC - though stating the obvious - can use it as legal paper tomorrow).

I am not sure what we can do in case we do not agree to an extension - can we ask for a refund without deducting any charges as the developor has delayed? Can u get a more favorable payment term in case interested to hold on to the property? If anyone in this forum has any idea, would be great if it can be shared.


BTW, my Sale agreement states the completion date as third quarter of 2009 - plus provides a provision to the developer to extend it by one year without any interest cost (During booking, a lot of things were promised, but the Sale agreement had something else...that's a story for another day). 

Baba Toto, going forward all payments have to be linked to construction milestones - if you have already paid 50%, i do not see any reason to do the next payment till atleast 50% construction is completed.


----------



## rocky9

*will be there*

Hi

I will be there at second cup 2pm. 

I will also inform friends who have invested in the same to come.


----------



## AITU

^^This is huge.

Theoretically then...... anyone who has bought property in say 2008, the value of which is today below what they paid for it, who cannot make the next payment and who subsequently finds out that the developer has not registered the property transaction with the Land Department (this is the key part) can get their original money back with interest!

Any developer who has not been registering properties launched or sold at peak value in 2007 / 2008 will soon be in all kinds of financial trouble if they aren't already if this becomes the norm. 

The bastard flippers may have a saviour.


----------



## dbxdude

AITU said:


> ^^This is huge.
> 
> Theoretically then...... anyone who has bought property in say 2008, the value of which is today below what they paid for it, who cannot make the next payment and who subsequently finds out that the developer has not registered the property transaction with the Land Department (this is the key part) can get their original money back with interest!
> 
> Any developer who has not been registering properties launched or sold at peak value in 2007 / 2008 will soon be in all kinds of financial trouble if they aren't already if this becomes the norm.
> 
> The bastard flippers may have a saviour.


hey man, be nice to the flippers, look at the market since they left. flippers everywhere, london to.... just they r called investors


----------



## Spurs

Yes I will attend, I also will tell friends who have invested


----------



## luluprovence

bizzybonita said:


> Long-term outlook for property remains positive
> 
> on Wednesday, March 25, 2009
> 
> The long-term outlook for Dubai remains positive with the emirate currently offering a range of options for "opportunistic" investors.
> 
> Yields are also likely to increase in the medium term even though capital values decrease ahead of rental values, said a new report.
> 
> According to the report, no recovery in the Mena's real estate markets can be expected until confidence returns. The company identified a total of 17 primary factors that influence the level of sentiment or confidence across the region.
> 
> "While some of these influences have now stabilised, none of them are yet showing any signs of a sustained recovery. None of the requirements listed yet have therefore yet reached the achieved status [green light].
> 
> "This reinforces our view that real estate markets are likely to decline further during the year 2009 before stabilising in 2010 and recovering in 2011."
> 
> A prerequisite for any real estate market recovery is for the global financial markets to be recapitalised.
> 
> Governments around the world have intervened to re-capitalise the banks and those in the Gulf have made considerable and concerted efforts to underpin the financial sector over the past two months with significant levels of liquidity being injected directly or indirectly.
> 
> "Much of this capital is now seeking deployment opportunities as investors seek to take advantage of distressed asset sales, which are becoming available on an opportunistic basis."
> 
> Additional capital is beginning to pool as investors regain their balance and refocus on regional opportunities. Some previously internationally oriented investment funds are being redirected to the region.
> 
> Institutional investors are now looking more strategically at assets with long-term contractual income generally with five- to 10-year leases with strong covenants.
> 
> "This is leading to increased interest in alternative asset classes including industrial and work force accommodation as well as deals in the education, healthcare and infrastructure related sectors."
> 
> The credit crisis has resulted in a severe downturn in demand for commercial office space in most cities across the region.
> 
> Demand has slowed to a trickle and many of the larger corporate requirements that were looking to lease or pre-lease space over the first three quarters of last year have turned into potential requirements with time-lines being pushed out to 2010.
> 
> While vacancies remain minimal in Abu Dhabi, Riyadh and Jeddah, they have increased significantly in Dubai where vacancies now exceed 15 per cent, resulting in rents halving in some locations.
> 
> "This is clearly a positive for those occupiers looking to expand their operations as landlords have come to recognise the value of their tenant's covenant and are now becoming more accommodating of tenant's needs for lower costs, better facilities and long-term leases."
> 
> http://business24-7.ae/articles/2009/3/pages/03252009_df7773d0cf6242a2bae0a025315b2b5f.aspx


thanks bizzybonita for the positive link.


----------



## luluprovence

rexdmx said:


> i think what he means to say is based on the cost of renting rigs, personnel and long term contracts, the prices of $40 may no be sufficient plus the possibility of having to go down deeper which needs more investment in terms of infrastructure and technology.
> 
> plus in some countries that are seriously under developed, the price of 40$ would be insufficient like iran that has sanctions


would you have a link that explains this? i've deleted all my prior posts with a --- including the oil one.


----------



## Spurs

Wednesday, March 25, 2009
Dubai Property Court - Developer must repay 7.4 Million AED

source The National 25 March 2009

DUBAI // A property developer has been ordered by the Dubai Real Estate Court to return Dh7.4 million (US$1.38m) on the sale of several apartments to a buyer after failing to register the sale with the Dubai Land Department’s property register.The court ruled the sale null and void yesterday and ordered the developer to pay nine per cent interest to the buyer on the money from the date of the sale last April. The developer must also pay the full court costs.According to a statement issued by the Dubai Courts Department, the ruling is the first of its kind to cancel a property sale since the court was established last August.In his summary, the presiding judge, Omar Miran, said the law stipulates that any transfer of ownership or other property transaction not registered in either the land department’s property register or its preliminary property register is null and void.The law gives developers a 60-day grace period to register all property sales concluded before that date. Failure to do so also renders the sale null and void.
The sale in this case was concluded on April 8. The buyer filed his case on Jan 21 this year, asking the court to order the developer to refund the money he had paid for the apartments plus 12 per cent interest.

Are our units registered with the lands department?????? I believe the project is but our units are not!


----------



## jeetha

Rider said:


> Given the current climate and future oversupply of apts in the area, does anyone think that Silverene in Dubai Marina is a good develpment to invest in?
> 
> I have been offered an apt with prime marina views at below the OP.
> 
> Many Thanks


One man's loss always is another man's gain.


----------



## speculator

HurricaneMo said:


> hmmmm..... I have trouble seeing Dubai's fundamentals as solid, especially with regards to the residential property market. As we all know historical demand has been driven by speculation, if it wasn't for speculation then many of these developments wouldn't have even escaped the conceptual stage, let alone got out of the ground (or water!). Counter arguments?


Thats all round the world my friend. The west has been the worst for it but east gets blamed for it :lol:


----------



## Richard Head

^^ You're right Harry, there are no counterarguments, no point debating this any further, the forum is now closed, thanks everybody it was fun while it lasted hno:

There are plenty of people in stable jobs, who would like to make a life here for themselves, couldn't afford to buy at late 08 prices and are just waiting to dive in. More are arriving by the day, just not in such large numbers. Supply will dry up once what is currently under construction gets finished, since the off plan market is dead no developer in their right mind will launch new projects for a couple of years.

The fundamental reasons people like myself wanted to live in Dubai have not changed, neither will they be changed by a recession. I'm not going to bore myself by repeating what they are again.

The bailout has started and a lot of projects that were on ice are already starting again. Liquidity will return, banks can not continue to trade as banks in the long term without doing what banks do, which is lend money.

Dead wood will be eliminated in all areas (construction companies, developers, real estate agents, banks) and the strongest will survive and thrive.


----------



## HurricaneMo

> Thats all round the world my friend. The west has been the worst for it but east gets blamed for it


True, it is happening all around the world, but in Dubai's an unusual proportion of property investors where purchasing purely for short term capital gain, where as in most developed property markets the majority of purchases made are for end users with longer investment horizons, that's not excluding a component of 'buy to lease' baby boomer investors.

I don't think the east is getting blamed for anything, Isn't this largely all down to a few 'rocket scientists' hidden away in darkened offices of investment banks on Wall Street building complex mechanisms that only a limited number could understand?

As for your comments Richard, I agree, there are still, and will continue to be, a large number of people moving to Dubai to make a life here. However I think the vast majority of people are transient, in that they are here to make a few tax free dollars/pounds/euro and then move on. But these people, why would they invest in a depreciating asset when you can earn a guaranteed 5.3% in a bank account? Confidence in the property market is key, it is self perpetuating in both directions...


----------



## TDemirel

HurricaneMo said:


> True, it is happening all around the world, but in Dubai's an unusual proportion of property investors where purchasing purely for short term capital gain, where as in most developed property markets the majority of purchases made are for end users with longer investment horizons, that's not excluding a component of 'buy to lease' baby boomer investors.
> 
> I don't think the east is getting blamed for anything, Isn't this largely all down to a few 'rocket scientists' hidden away in darkened offices of investment banks on Wall Street building complex mechanisms that only a limited number could understand?
> 
> As for your comments Richard, I agree, there are still, and will continue to be, a large number of people moving to Dubai to make a life here. However I think the vast majority of people are transient, in that they are here to make a few tax free dollars/pounds/euro and then move on. But these people, why would they invest in a depreciating asset when you can earn a guaranteed 5.3% in a bank account? Confidence in the property market is key, it is self perpetuating in both directions...


I only disagree on a small point:
Even the people is here for a short term contract, they will need some place to live, mostly on a company provided accommodation. 
Company needs to rent this flats, from somebody who owns them. 
At the end it is again part of a buy & let deal.
These people in short term contracts are also making benefit to the property market.

My other point is: I moved to my flat in JLT end December 2008, and I was one of the first ones. Last numbers I got, the tower is now 60% full.
Now the question is, who are these people?
1) People like me living in rent and moved to their flat as soon as it is completed? 
2) Tenants relocating to better flats with the same rent?
3) New Comers?
Anybody else, making the same observations?

On top of this:
I was trying to sell my flat before the handover, in 2008 peak time, to buy something else in somewhere else. Anyway, I could not fix a deal and decided to pull off from market and move in after completion.
Especially in last week, without any exageration, I'm receiving two phone calls daily, checking the availabity of the flat.
Believe me, I even had a R/E Agent knocking my door at 20:00, to check if it was still for sale, and he was saying to have deposit cheque in his hand.
But off course the Buyer was looking for 2006 prices.
So, at the end of the day, there are buyers around.

Sorry it became a long post, but one last experience I wanted to share.
I am receiving much more inquiry mails in my mail box than one month back.
IMHO, I believe we are almost in the bottom, and too many investors are started to take their position already.

I will wait anxiuosly, how the market will start moving after Ramadan.


----------



## Bobby G

I have rented an apartment in December, and paid the first 6 months in a current dated cheque, and the post-dated cheque is due in May for the period beginning in June.

I have told the landlord I want to leave, and am willing to leave early losing any amount paid in my first cheque as a sort of compensation, as long as I receive my post-dated cheque.

What is the legal right of a tenant who wants to leave early for breaking the tenancy???


----------



## kano

^^^ I think once you have paid the cheque even if it is postdated you are liable to the cheque. I maybe wrong but you really need to Negotiate with him.


----------



## Freestyler

what happened with the meeting?


----------



## speculator

HurricaneMo said:


> True, it is happening all around the world, but in Dubai's an unusual proportion of property investors where purchasing purely for short term capital gain, where as in most developed property markets the majority of purchases made are for end users with longer investment horizons.


Here in the UK all the " pent up demand " that we have been led to believe in was really all bull. The pent up demand came from the "buy to letters" who are now suffering. The demand came from those that couldn't afford but just wanted to jump on the bandwagon. None of these were in for the long term. These people are called speculators and flippers in Dubai ( bad guys ) but investors and landlords in the west ( good guys ). So really the fundamentals are the same where ever; except for those boring countries that have not believed in debt. Obviously as Dubai is a frontier economy the deviation from the mean will always be more severe and this is what will always attract people when things are on the upside.


----------



## speculator

Bobby G said:


> I have rented an apartment in December, and paid the first 6 months in a current dated cheque, and the post-dated cheque is due in May for the period beginning in June.
> 
> I have told the landlord I want to leave, and am willing to leave early losing any amount paid in my first cheque as a sort of compensation, as long as I receive my post-dated cheque.
> 
> What is the legal right of a tenant who wants to leave early for breaking the tenancy???


you would have signed to a 1 year tenancy. You have also written a cheque post dated or not. So you need to do a runner or be nice to the landlord.


----------



## Bobby G

So there is no law whereas I can give a 3 month notice for early termination?
Or possibly vacate the premises now, with 2 months left for the first cheque amount to run out and forfeit the amount?


----------



## kano

^^^you can't do a runner with a post dated cheque in his hand. get it back..and agree something in writing so you have it on paper .


----------



## paul66

*Oil Price is flying!*

Oil reached a peak of $54.70 today.
Wall Street still heading higher.

... Remember, during a recession, stock markets rise around 6-9 months before the actual economy recovers. So this means end of this year, when the western world recovers, they will be back to invest, live and work here.
:banana:


----------



## Richard Head

Bobby G said:


> So there is no law whereas I can give a 3 month notice for early termination?
> Or possibly vacate the premises now, with 2 months left for the first cheque amount to run out and forfeit the amount?


Yup, i'm afraid it's totally the landlords call. He is legally entitled to cash your cheque and send the feds after you if it bounces. You have to "persuade" him it's in his interests as he gets 2 months rent as a bonus if he gets another tenant quickly. I allowed a tenant of mine to do exactly that last summer, but rents were going up and I was confident of getting another tenant quickly, which I did inside 24 hours. Not so sure landlords would be amenable to this in current market. Funnily enough the boot is now on the other foot and i'm in exactly the same situation as you, sent a letter to my landlord today and waiting for a reply. My landlords name is Maktoum, not sure if that works in my favour or not !!!!


----------



## luluprovence

Has the Strata Law been announced yet?


----------



## speculator

Richard Head said:


> My landlords name is Maktoum, not sure if that works in my favour or not !!!!


Well then your off the hock because he dont give a monkeys.




kano said:


> ^^^you can't do a runner with a post dated cheque in his hand. get it back..and agree something in writing so you have it on paper .


Depends where your running to. He aint gonna come after you in Israel or where ever else. If your moving down the road then id be careful so you then need to talk and be nice.


----------



## speculator

paul66 said:


> So this means end of this year, when the western world recovers, they will be back to invest, live and work here.
> :banana:


But it will be much better when people decide to die here as well as live and work here. 

Seriously anyone got any views on this. What happens when you do die here but no one takes your body to homeland or if no one knows where your from. Do they just throw you into the sea or do they provide a burial space in the precious royal earth. Seriously !


----------



## Rider

Does anyone think that another round of speculation/flipping (obviously to a lesser degree) could take place in Dubai once the global recovery gets under way and projects that were cancelled or on hold are resurrected or replaced with new ones?

There will obviously be people out to make short-term capital gains and opportunities to do so in developed countries where population growth is not on the agenda may be limited. I have a feeling that people may once again turn to Dubai/Abu Dhabi etc in the absence of any alternatives. 

Market perception is an incredibly powerful thing and momentum can change very quickly. Some doubters are questioning whether Dubai can achieve it’s long-term vision, a bit like passengers on a flight starting to believe their plane won’t reach it’s destination just because it’s flying through some turbulence. Most recessions since the great depression have only lasted 1-2 years and I find it hard to believe that the grand vision for Dubai will suffer in the long-term. It’s almost as if someone has pressed the pause button and we’re waiting for someone to unclick it so business can be resumed.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Bobby G said:


> So there is no law whereas I can give a 3 month notice for early termination?
> Or possibly vacate the premises now, with 2 months left for the first cheque amount to run out and forfeit the amount?


Bobby - I had a tennant doing that - after 1 month. We estimated what a new rent could be (market dropped dramatically during that month) - the difference was extracted his first cheque and he got the second back. I never got it re-rented to the estimated price - and it was empty for while - but it could have gone both ways. It is not nice for the landlord to have a desperate tennant living. Alternatively you can go on the market and find a new tennant yourself - if there is a difference in the rent let the landlord extract the amount from the first payment.


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## aviduser

I very much doubt "flipping" will return. The smart money has left already it's hard to see that as so many people have lost money that suddenly people will dive back in again. 


Dubai has had a terrible effect on the whole GCC, Qatar's market prices are down 40% and they are having real trouble shifting units. 

Personally I think prices have further to go and the "floor" entirely depends on the salary multiple that the Dubai banks finally feel comfortable lending at WHEN they start lending again. 

If we argue the average wage of someone WILLING to purchase in Dubai like a banker or senior construction worker is say 100,000 Dollars a year then the add say 20% deposit and you are looking at over 300,000. That's great but what will they expect for that money, I am guessing a Villa for the family as earners on that level are mature with families. 

I dunno who knows, let's wait and see I would hold tight though prices will go lower so hang tight.


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## williteverbebuiltnow

HappyLarry said:


> Thanks for the warning but why?


Barclays sent me a letter a year ago (whilst rates were high!) saying that they were moving my AED deposit rate to 0% pa from .5% pa.....that was onshore UK admittedly....they stink....


----------



## Wannaberich

gerald.d said:


>


Agreed.A pic of her is needed in order to give our considered opinion.
i.e,is she worth a shag or not.


----------



## Pleth

Can we hear from anybody who bought a ready apartment recently and got residence visa to go with it?
The rumours are saying that you can't get a residence visa with your apartment anymore? 

So if you buy an apartment in Dubai, you can't stay in it?


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## Hanna

*Courts expect more case !*

Courts expect more cases say 7days news


Friday 27 Mar, 2009

Dubai is preparing to deal with an increase in the number of real estate deals that end up in court because of the global economic downturn.At a legal conference on Thursday, national and international experts on real estate and litigious lawsuits and financial corruption gathered to discuss the challenges Dubai and UAE face in tackling such issues.Dubai Courts Director General Dr Ahmed Saeed Bin Hazeem said: “We are anticipating an increase in cases within real estate and financial services.” The complexity of such cases, and the fact they often involve international investigations, can slow down the legal process but the conference heard that Dubai Courts now has the expertise and policies to deal with matters more quickly.Hazeem said: “From time to time there are new cases and trends we have to deal with and we have very high standards and skills in Dubai to do that.“I think from now on the process will speed up. In the past there was some real challenges but now it will work faster.”German legal experts have been in Dubai to liaise with the local judiciary on ways to handle real estate litigation. The UAE and Germany are about on sign a treaty which will cement an exchange between the two countries on best practices in the areas of civil and commercial law.


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## Bimcnorth

> The UAE and Germany are about on sign a treaty which will cement an exchange between the two countries on best practices in the areas of civil and commercial law.


Yeah, it´s a bit funny but someone must have mentioned that German law is probably the most similar to current UAE law in Europe..and given the amount of lawyers Sheikh Mansour surrounds himself with it was bound to happen.

As for property law I find it fascinating that many germans shun mortgages and instead have a complex system aimed at protecting special "home buyers saving funds" meaning that it´s not uncommon for Germans to start saving as kids and being able to buy homes in cash as adults.


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## lazy daisy

aviduser said:


> Dubai has had a terrible effect on the whole GCC, Qatar's market prices are down 40% and they are having real trouble shifting units.


can you explain how Dubai real estate has affected the whole GCC and in particular Qatar. Not saying you are wrong except I cant understand the logic. Thats sort of like saying because of USA we are all suffering round the world; which is true incidentally.


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## aviduser

I think certainly from anecdotal evidence I have, the Dubai market spooked Qatar's market. The GCC was seen as a "good bet" and rents and prices increased in Qatar as much as they did in Dubai. The problem is people see how badly Dubai has fallen and realise that in all essence although the scale is different the fundamentals were similar. The prices in Qatar were driven by speculation and not by actual demand. Same as Dubai. 

Qatar DID have a shortage of available property, but this was mainly in the lead up to the Asian games, this caused a demand spike and rents went through the roof. 

Along side this Qatar decided to start building towers and the the Pearl project. This caused an influx of workers into the country. These figures, very much like Dubai were trumpted in the papers and suddenly there are 1.7 million people here. 

Again like Dubai this failed to tell the whole story, the majority probably 90% of the increase was low paid construction workers with a small minority being people who could actually AFFORD anything being built in the City. 

So hype like Dubai was used to push prices along with a short term demand spike. 

Only the local populace didn't read the memo with the real breakdown of population figures and with the oil price spike last year the country began to feel invincible. 

This has lead to a huge building spree of compounds and flats, these compounds and flat are NOT for sale but built by local speculators. 

The problem with the amount of accommodation being built is that even in the boom times numbers of well paid ex-pats able to afford the rents charged were never high enough to fill everything being built. Still not a bad thing as only local speculators were burnt right ?

Wrong....the problem is the amount of private speculator built Villas and flats now well exceeds demand, so what happens if you brought a Place in the Pearl with a view to renting it out at TOP money ? There isn't going to be the demand. After all who will pay 12K QR a month for a small two bed in the Pearl when 3 bed Villas have started going for the same money. And the Pearl is not even finished yet. At a guess Phase one of the project will bring to the market over 3,000 Apartment and town houses. And as I say that is JUST phase ONE. Phase two the same amount again, plus at least the same amount again in phase 3. 

So Qatar has a problem of over supply. Couple this with an Economy that is 38% dependant on "real estate and construction" and you are facing some serious issues. 

It has been written that Qatar can/is avoiding the credit crunch, the Government is loaded and can still afford to build infrastructure and towers and to complete the freehold projects. That is NOT an issue. 

The problem is long term, Qatar very much like Dubai is like a shark that will die if it does not keep swimming. Well Qatar/Dubai will die if they stop building. The problem is of course how long can they keep building for ? Sure they can continue for years and years but essentially you then have a city like Doha where the only people (except oil and gas peeps) living in the expensive properties are the construction managers tasked with building the next big folly. 

My advice for ANYONE with property in Qatar is simple SELL at OP. IF you brought in Cash or transferred money from the UK over 6 months ago. If you paid 1 million in 2006 and sell for the same now you are going to make 30% on the exchange rate. That's if you can find a buyer of course. 

The demand scenario I outline above is deteriorating each day, quietly companies are scaling back or more generally not renewing contracts. Into the face of this though, more compounds and flats are finished every week. 

The only hope I can see is this, as it's private investors who have built these compounds and apartments they CAN keep them off the market, the owners CAN default and the Government HAS bailed out the banks already to cover bad loans. What we could well see is vast compounds deliberately left empty to stem supply and keep rents up. There is talk that this has already being going on for the last 2 years, only now it is going to have to go nuclear. The Government CAN afford this strategy. The only problem is will outside investors realise this is what is going on, would anyone want to invest into a market so deliberately rigged.


----------



## boston101

*Dubai ready for world's richest race*

<<No signs of a down turn here and it'll even get better next year>>

Saturday night's enthralling race meet, culminating in the $6 million Dubai World Cup, promises to provide the perfect climax to the legend of Nad Al Sheba. 

As one racing legacy is left behind the birth of another, keeping track of Dubai's progress, begins to take shape: *Meydan, the ultra-modern racing city will be unveiled to the world next year*. 

http://www.gulfnews.com/sport/Horse_Racing/10299127.html


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## lazy daisy

Aviduser good info. Well i thought Qatar had a boom on. Thats what they say any way. At least we are not alone.


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## aviduser

Not a boom exactly, but like I say above the Government CAN afford to build an awful lot of infrastructure, and if you have visited the City you know that it NEEDS it. 

As for property investment, frankly it's done. There is simply no point investing in freehold property when there is so much property already available. 5 Years Visa's are offered so I imagine a FEW Indians and Iranians MIGHT prefer it to Qatar but to be frank the City is still so dull that with prices so cheap now in Dubai, Dubai is the better bet. 

Qatar and Dubai are structurally similar, OK Qatar has more natural resources but at the end of the day they both need to keep building to keep the people here, once it's all finished what happens then ? How long can they keep building empty building ? Who knows but at the end of the day keep your money in the bank. Some even offer 5%


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## aviduser

oops


----------



## DubaiExpat

Dubai & Doha

There is really a big difference between Dubai & Doha in all aspects.

Doha is trying to emulate Dubai and the expats who are here for a long time claim Doha is better than Dubai when they talk about even simple things in life.

I agree with AVIDUSER. Doha is like a frog in the well. It doesn't know anything more than the well.

The real estate here is extremely overpriced. There is a slight decline but too little. The basic infrastructure is bad - roads especially. Not a single road is closer to perfection.

If you have lived in Dubai, then in Doha you will have to compromise yourself with many things. The life is slow, people are lazy. Dubai does what's to be done next week, month or year while Doha does what was to be done last week, month or year.

To get right people or attract work force from Dubai, they pay a lot but on arrival you will discover that for that package you would be doing the job of a relatively less experienced person in your previous job. Sometimes you feel guilty of getting that kind of package for a job like that.

Nothing is done the way it has to be, always there is rework on roads but never done well.

Dubai is definitely a better place in the region and I hope soon they recover.

Investments into real estate, Dubai is definely the only option in the region. Definitely safer and at present if you have the money, invest confidently in Dubai. Don't look for quick returns.

I have lost money in Dubai, but I am confident that Dubai will bounce back in due course.


----------



## naukhez

Hi guys,

Any news on the latest on La Vista ?

Any new pictures ?

Regards,

Naukhez


----------



## baba toto

NAB said:


> Baba Toto, i will be going to the site next week so will check Lawns III also. Though i have not got any such letter yet, the least what can be said is most of (if not all) the Lawns constructions have just about started, so the completion date cannot be before mid 2010 anyways. (With this letter, DEC - though stating the obvious - can use it as legal paper tomorrow).
> 
> I am not sure what we can do in case we do not agree to an extension - can we ask for a refund without deducting any charges as the developor has delayed? Can u get a more favorable payment term in case interested to hold on to the property? If anyone in this forum has any idea, would be great if it can be shared.
> 
> 
> BTW, my Sale agreement states the completion date as third quarter of 2009 - plus provides a provision to the developer to extend it by one year without any interest cost (During booking, a lot of things were promised, but the Sale agreement had something else...that's a story for another day).
> 
> Baba Toto, going forward all payments have to be linked to construction milestones - if you have already paid 50%, i do not see any reason to do the next payment till atleast 50% construction is completed.


Thanks Nab. Would really appreciate your visit to the site!!! Maybe you can take some pictures of the general area around the site so as to get an idea of the level of development in the location.....?


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## lazy daisy

Very insightful guys. I will not be bothering to visit Doha now. To me Dubai is great. Its the only city in the world so modern & safe & cosmopolitan. I love Dubai. 

It is such a shame that the progress had to be shattered by credit crunch. But I think it will be good for Dubai to become affordable so all the people can see the attraction and start moving here again and that will certainly happen. 

I do not think Dubai has to keep building in order to sustain itself. It has made many head ways into other service industries that can be self sustainable and allow the economy to grow.

The only real fear I have for Dubai, due to its debt level, is that it may be influenced by the other GCC members like Saudi and AD to change laws and methods to suit GCC. Its a shame but a true fact that those with the money push their owns ways.


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## aviduser

For investing perhaps long term Dubai is the better bet, I really don't think we can have a good idea about how things will pan out until the end of the year, until then it is advisable to sit tight. 

Another point I forgot to add is the quality of the freehold property in Doha is truly terrible. I know that many projects have been delayed in Dubai, but the general standard of property and apartments is worlds away from the standard in Doha. I have pored over pictures on this forum and have often thought that although the prices went stupid at least some of the apartments were actually pretty swish inside (I know actual finish can be poor I am referring to fixtures and fittings) 

Doha is frankly a fucking piss take, I owned a place here had a visit and promptly sold it as it was so shit I honestly thought I was fucked and no one would buy it. I did manage to sell it but if I tell you this was back in July 2008 you can see why, If I still owned it now I would be fucked, I wouldn't be able to rent it out for enough to cover the mortgage. I would have been seriously out of pocket and own a complete shit hole more suited to communist Russia than modern day arabia.

Oh and I sold this hole for 345,000 Pounds FUCKING ridiculous, I realise by flipping the property I immediately became a scumbag speculator, but I had every intention of using my housing allowance to live in the property, only after I saw it I immediately realised I had been HAD ! And this was in an iconic tower.


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## 234sale

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/550880-investors-look-to-benefit-from-dubai-property-court

Investors look set to benefit from Dubai Property Court
by Joanna Sunday, 29 March 2009 



> TOUGH RULING: The Dubai Property Court's first ruling suggests that it is going to take a tough stance on developers, say lawyers. (Getty Images)Property investors look set to benefit from the new Dubai Property Court after its first ruling saw a major developer ordered to pay back AED7.4m ($2m) to an investor, it was reported on Sunday.
> 
> In its first decision last Monday the court ruled that Mizin, the developer arm of investment company Tatweer, was ordered to pay an investor his money back, plus nine percent interest, because it had failed to register the transaction with the Dubai Land Department, according to UAE daily The National.


----------



## Joannides

HappyLarry said:


> Thanks for the warning but why?


Before I first moved out here, I considered getting a Barclays account/ mortgage etc. I tried contacting them over a period of weeks but there was no response. It got to the point that I escalated it to my premier banker in the UK who complained to Barclays head office. Guess what! they couldn’t get through either! After a couple of weeks, somebody eventually contacted me, although they were clueless... I did manage to open a current account (albeit with residence visa).

Maybe I’m expecting a level of service that I got while in the UK, but the service is pretty bad here. Their customer service is terrible. Silly things like it took two days to activate a visa card, something my wife did in one minute with the Bank of AD. Admittedly, Barclays should have been able to do it in an hour, but they never got back to me so I had to chase up - in fact, i have to always chase up! I have raised 3 separate complaints with their complaints team and nobody has ever got back to me (I have been with Barclays in the UK and one raised one complaint in all that time).

Another big problem is the lack of critical mass they have here. A couple of weeks ago, I wanted to pay a cheque in, and got to their branch in Emaar Business Park, to my surprise, you can’t deposit cheques there and nobody could tell me where I could??? I called up their customer care line who said that the only place I can deposit a cheque is the Burj Dubai branch in Emaar Square. One place in the whole of Dubai???? Even now, I have difficulty believing this to be the case, but at the time, I had to get the cheque in so it would clear before my tenant moved in, so did exactly that and deposited it at Emaar Square.

As I said, I have had a Barclays account in the UK for 14 years, and while they’re not great, they’re not bad. In Dubai, the acid test for me is seeing how bad they are here compared to how good the bank of AD is.

just my personal view.


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## smussuw

DubaiExpat said:


> Dubai does what's to be done next week, month or year while Doha does what was to be done last week, month or year.


Well summarized in this sentence :laugh:


----------



## tehsin123

*12:59 29Mar09 -Dubai's population to slump 17 pct this year -EFG*

*
* Bank says impact of downturn particularly harsh in Dubai 
* Real estate, construction face sharp slowdown *

DUBAI, March 29 (Reuters) - Dubai's population is set to fall 17 percent this year as the former boomtown suffers from a real estate slump that could cause the UAE economy to contract for the first time in about 15 years, EFG-Hermes said on Sunday. 
Consumer prices in the United Arab Emirates, the second largest Arab economy, are also set to fall this year as the global financial crisis pressures rents and consumer demand, the Egyptian investment bank said in a research note. 
"We believe the impact of the global financial crisis will be particularly harsh in Dubai, compared to the other emirates and the rest of the region," EFG-Hermes said. 
"This is because of both the highly leveraged and externally facing nature of the Dubai economy." 
EFG forecasts the population of Dubai will fall around 17 percent in 2009 to 1.49 million, from an estimated 1.79 million in 2008. 
As hundreds of billions of dollars worth of UAE projects are cancelled or put on hold, the Gulf oil exporter's real estate and construction sectors face a sharp slowdown, EFG said. [ID:nLT121130] 
Thousands of people have already lost their jobs in Dubai, one of seven emirates in the UAE federation, which could see its construction population fall 30 percent this year and population in other fields decline 13 percent, EFG said. 
The overall UAE population would fall 5.5 percent, it said. 
"The fall in the UAE's population will further add to the downward pressure on the economy and will have a marked impact on domestic demand," EFG said, adding private consumption could fall just over 13 percent in nominal terms this year. 
EFG expects the UAE economy will shrink 1.7 percent in 2009, compared with a January forecast of a 0.04-percent contraction, as the world's fifth-largest oil exporter cuts crude output due to falling demand. 
That would be the first contraction since 1993, according to Reuters data. 
The investment bank had participated in a Reuters poll of 14 economists this month in which the median real gross domestic product forecast was for the UAE economy to stagnate this year. 
The UAE economy expanded 7.4 percent in 2008, the ministry of economy said last week. 
"With the correction in the real estate sector, the level of wealth destruction will be greater than in other Gulf countries. Consumption will be further suppressed with the fall in tourism numbers and spending," EFG said. 
The UAE's consumer price index (CPI) is likely to fall 2 percent this year as rents in Dubai tumble between 20 and 50 percent, compared with a rise of 21 percent last year, EFG said. 
Inflation in the UAE hit an at least 20-year peak of 13.6 percent last year, this month's Reuters poll showed. Housing comprises about 36 percent of the country's CPI. 


So guys, just hold your horses, don't rush into property this year. My view only.


----------



## smussuw

*Population to fall by 5.5 p/c*

UAE population to fall by 5.5 per cent 

The ongoing global financial crisis will have a very visible impact on the UAE this year if predictions from EFG- Hermes prove accurate. A report produced by the investment bank has predicted the population in the country will drop by an estimated 5.5 per cent in 2009 - a steep reversal of the trend in previous years where the amount of residents grew by an estimated 8.8 per cent last year and 7.7 per cent in 2007. More specifically, the study adds, the drop in population - which will have severe ramifications for the economy - will be mostly driven by Dubai, with the emirate predicted to to be the hardest hit, with a 17.1 per cent drop in population this year on the cards. 

As a consequence of the changes in the economic reality wrought by the credit crunch, the report predicted growth performance in the region will be hit, with the UAE economy expected to contract by 1.7 per cent. “We believe the impact of the global financial crisis will be particularly harsh in Dubai, compared to the other emirates. This is because of both the highly leveraged and externally facing nature of the Dubai economy,” the report said, adding that it should be noted its findings were based on the limited data available and ‘estimates are based on our breakdown of population components. Official comments indicate that Dubai’s population and labour force are still expanding'.

“We are forecasting that the construction population of Dubai will fall 30 per cent in 2009. The fall in population will further result in weaker demand for housing. “We are seeing a sharp fall in rental prices in Dubai with the drop in population. Given that housing is the largest component of the consumer inflation basket, we are now expecting deflation (of 2.0 per cent) in 2009,” the report said.

http://7days.ae/storydetails.php?id=75872&title=Population to fall by 5.5 p/c


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## Hanna

*Corruption cases mushroom as Dubai bubble bursts !*

DUBAI (AFP) — Faced with a sudden economic slowdown, Dubai is trying to combat the fraud cases that surged during the past years of rapid economic growth in a bid to boost its status as a regional business hub.But the clean-up drive has stirred controversy as several former executives of major firms, suspected of embezzling sums which total hundreds of millions of dollars, have been held for months without charge.The economic boom of the past several years appears to be the main culprit."It was a boom market. Everybody gets greedy and you have corruption," economist Eckart Woertz of Dubai-based Gulf Research Centre told AFP. "You have the opportunity to cash in some bribes, and you do it."The economy of Dubai, which is part of the oil-rich United Arab Emirates, had been growing at a breakneck speed.The main engine has been the real estate sector, after foreigners were allowed to own freehold property in 2002, while oil prices shot up last year to unprecedented records, creating a massive cash surplus in the region.But the global financial crisis threw the spanner in the works of Dubai's economy, as a liquidity shortage and weak confidence applied the brakes on growth in the realty sector.Most of the recorded and alleged corruption cases are linked to this sector.Earlier this month, seven men appeared in court in two trials against former business executives charged with demanding bribes -- the first corruption trials since the fraud cases surfaced last year.One case involves four former executives from Sama Dubai, a property developer belonging to the vast Dubai Holding conglomerate, and an executive from Damac Properties.The other case embroils two former sales executives at the government-controlled giant property developer Nakheel, according to press reports.Bribes in the case of Sama Dubai executives amounted to 8.35 million dirhams (2.28 million dollars), while they amounted to 5.14 million dirhams (1.4 million dollars) in the Nakheel case.Nakheel, contacted by AFP, declined to comment on the case.In February, police reportedly arrested three other senior managers at Nakheel -- the company which shot to world fame for its projects to develop three palm-shaped islands and a world map-shaped cluster of islands off Dubai.The longest-serving top executive in police custody is former Deyaar chief executive, Zack Shahin, an American of Lebanese origin, who has been held since March 2008 without formal charges.Dubai's prosecution charged in late February that Shahin and other suspects had embezzled more than 98 million dirhams (27 million dollars).An Internet website called "Save Zack Shahin" says the man has been tortured in custody and it has posted photos of him in hospital.But the largest corruption case appears to be an alleged scheme to defraud the Dubai Islamic Bank of 501 million dollars, over which seven persons have been charged, according to court documents.Two of the suspects are still at large.The alleged fraud was committed between 2004 and 2007 and involved two former DIB executives and five businessmen linked to a trade finance company and a real estate project in Dubai.Meanwhile, the Dubai prosecutor's office has issued an arrest warrant against a top executive of Dynasty Zarooni, according to a local daily.Al-Shaali law firm, which is acting on behalf of investors in Dynasty Zarooni projects, told AFP it has lodged complaints worth a total of nearly 82 million dollars.The clampdown has rocked the business environment in the emirate.But "it is to their credit that the (Dubai) authorities have decided to forcefully attack this problem, despite any negative publicity," said Ali Shihabi, CEO of Rasmala investment bank."The traditional Arab approach is to sweep such issues under the covers or ignore them completely ... These actions against corruption will strengthen the quality of the business environment in Dubai," he said.Some UAE newspapers have been active in reporting corruption cases.But the freedom to cover the cases could be curtailed by a proposed media law which would penalise the press for publishing "misleading news that could harm the national economy" in the Emirates."I would seriously advise them against it (passing the law) ... It won't achieve the aim of impeding negative reporting... You will have blogs," said Woertz of the research centre.


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

*Directly from Emaar Website...*

Who is eligible to apply for a residence visa? 

If the homeowner has no alternative means of sponsorship for a residence visa, the first owner may be sponsored by Emaar for residency in Dubai, UAE subject to the applicable immigration laws of the country. 
Please note that the first named owner will not be entitled to sponsorship through Emaar, if he/she is eligible for an employment visa through their employer and/or have any business in Dubai or UAE. 
The sponsorship by Emaar does not entitle for employment or any other business activity in the UAE. The owner has to apply through Emaar to have his/her case assessed for eligibility. 

To assess eligibility the owner needs to establish to Emaar that he/she is not eligible for any employment sponsorship and has no alternative means for sponsorship in UAE. 
Upon receiving this letter and the administration fee Emaar will review the application on an individual basis. This Residence Visa has to be renewed every 3 years. 
Administration & Immigration charges will apply. 

Please note that Emaar does not provide visas for: 
•Parents of the applicants
•Sons over age of 18
•Married daughters
•House Maids of some nationalities
•Drivers/Houseboys
•Sisters and brothers of applicants
•Applicants who do not pass the Medical examination
•Husbands of women who have applied for residence visas as sole buyers
How long does the Visa process take? 

Visa Application: Approximately 10 – 12 working days for the visa to be issued. 
Visa Stamping: Approximately 5 – 7 working days for the passport to be stamped after the required documents are submitted once the Medical process is complete. 
Kindly note that applications will be accepted only after all required documents are submitted. 
Visas cannot be processed earlier than indicated, so the applicant must ensure that he/she has enough time in Dubai to complete the process. 

What is the procedure for obtaining visa in sales transfer cases? 

Customers who purchase a property from previous owners against which an Emaar residence visa has been issued will not be eligible until the visa of the previous owner is canceled. To illustrate: 
•Customer A purchases a unit.
•Customer A applies for a Visa and Emaar sponsors his/her visa.
•Customer A sells the unit to Customer B.
•Customer B now wants to apply for a Visa.
•Customer A must cancel his/her (and family's) visa first.
•To cancel the visa, Customer A must submit his/her passport and sign on related forms.
•NO REFUND is made to Customer A. Security Deposit (if applicable) can be refunded through Dubai Immigration.
•Customer B may apply after Customer A has his/her visa duly cancelled. All normal fees apply.


----------



## Chuckles4

Bimcnorth said:


> They did make the payment so what´s the point of posting old speculations?


While MGM Mirage did make the payment, Dubai World did not meet its part of their obligations. This quote from The Wall Street Journal says it all:

"MGM Mirage made a $200 million payment due Friday to its City Center project, including the $100 million owed by Dubai World, to keep the massive resort and casino project from halting construction and potentially falling into bankruptcy."

Read the full article here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090329-700511.html


----------



## paul66

*UK Mortgage Approvals increase more than expected*

March 30 (Bloomberg) - U.K. mortgage approvals rose in February as the Bank of England lowered interest rates, a sign the housing slump may be reaching a bottom. 

Loans for home purchase rose to 38,000, compared with 32,000 in January, the U.K. central bank said today in London. Economists predicted 34,000, according to the median of 21 forecasts in a Bloomberg News survey. 

The lowest central bank interest rate since 1694 and Prime Minister Gordon Brown's plan to guarantee bank's assets may be starting to slow the housing market's yearlong slump. The pace of house-price declines was the slowest in 10 months in March, Hometrack Ltd. reported today. 

"The housing market isn't about to start booming, but the intensity of the pain will probably recede,'' said Amit Kara, an economist at UBS AG in London. "We may have reached a bottom in mortgage activity.''


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## luluprovence

Is it true that amounts exceeding AED500k will be subject to a due diligence check for mortgage applicants in the future?


----------



## lazy daisy

tgrmughal said:


> Hi, i think is better wait till the end of the year to buy in Dubai. We don t know how much will declines durig this year but expectations aren t goods.
> I ve friends that hav properties to rent and they told me prices declines too.


I told an agent today that I will wait a few months. She has been doing some house hunting for me and said today that if I wait a few more months that I will be priced out as prices are already going up on the lower end properties. 1 Million range.

Dont know if to believe the agent or my own instincts. Nah I think its sales talk. She is trying to get me to hurry a bit. 

Strange though that this same agent wasn't returning my emails so fast before the bust.


----------



## London21

*Dubai Property Prices Plunge Up to 70pc; may Recover by 2011 * 



30 March 2009
DUBAI - Freehold property prices in Dubai have plunged by as much as 70 per cent since March of last year but are poised to bottom out in another six months, real estate brokers said on Sunday. 



Dubai's once-booming property sector will see its ongoing sharp correction continue until the start of this year's fourth quarter. Prices will remain flat through 2010 but show signs of recovery by 2011, these brokers said.


"We have already seen prices plummet across Dubai's property sector by 50 to 70 per cent to the level of 2005. We expect the plunge to continue for the next six to eight months to bring prices down to their original level five years ago," said Mohammed Khan, Managing Director of New World Capital, a Dubai-based real estate brokerage.


Dubai's property prices, propelled by a swelling expatriate population, speculative investments and rising construction costs, surged by 25 per cent in the first half of 2008 over the first half of 2007.


The drastic downturn in the last quarter of 2008 and first quarter of this year is evident in varying degrees across most developments in the emirate. 


The average price for a villa at the Garden Homes project crashed from a high of Dh15 million one year ago to Dh6 million -- down 60 per cent. The average price of a home in Signature Villas on Palm Jumeirah dropped to Dh12 million from a range of Dh22-25 million, 12 months ago. Apartments in Jumeirah Lake Towers that were selling last year at Dh1,500 per square foot are available now for Dh700 per square foot, Khan said.


The price decline has been less severe for low-cost developments. A one-bedroom apartment at International City dropped from Dh700,000-750,000 range to Dh400,000 while the price of a studio unit there fell from Dh500,000 to Dh275,000.


Khan and other property brokers spoke on the sidelines of a seminar on "Selling in a difficult market" conducted by Judy LaDeur, a US-based property consultant. They painted a market scenario that was starker than the latest study by investment bank EFG-Hermes, which said on Saturday that the Dubai market had entered a period of correction after a sustained period of buoyant activity. The bank forecast overall price declines of 50-60 per cent from peak prices in 2008.


A drop in residential as well as commercial rents is also evident, brokers said. The slide has been more pronounced in areas of New Dubai, where rents have fallen by up to 40 per cent. A. Najeeb, Sales Manager of M.S. International Property, said apartment rents in the more established area of Al Ghusais were also declining fast. A flat that rented for Dh120,000 last year is available now for Dh70,000 at a discount of more than 40 per cent.


More drastic has been the decline in commercial property rents -- almost 60 per cent across Dubai. "We are expecting further rent drop by May-June, when a lot of expatriate families will be going back," Najeeb said. 


Hafiz Sohail Ijaza, Property Consultant at Wood Bridge Real Estate, expects the property market will remain balanced in terms of supply and demand through 2009. "We don't see a recovery for the off-plan property sector till 2010."


Bank finance is critical to market recovery, as several projects are on hold or delayed for lack of liquidity. Brokers said their main concern was about a buyers' strike, which would drive down transaction volumes. 


Developers have taken steps to try to revitalise the sector. Emaar, for instance, offers a 25 per cent price discount on its Standpoint projects. 




© Khaleej Times 2009


----------



## liwanowner

Every Customer Service person I speak to tells me that the project is on schedule to be completed as per our SPA (Sales/Purchase Agreement). If I remember correctly, the SPA states that apartments will be ready for possession by end of year, but there is also a clause that states that this could be delayed by no more than 12 months (or was that 6 months? I'm too lazy to bother...especially when the project is going nowhere).

For the record, I'm self-financing this and have already paid up 55%. A further 15% was due March 1st, but I've already collected that cheque and will not be making any more payments till the building my apartment is in has reached 50% completion.

Frankly, extremely disappointed with my purchase. I could have build the damn thing faster....


----------



## nri-hotels

70% drop in prices seems to me the true cost of development. But such reductions are prevalent in other more liberal and developed countries as well. So why should i buy Dubai.

Maybe name of Dubai should change to Donbai LOL


----------



## Arno Salzl

Hi,
How do you explain the very low prices in the Green Community where Bungalows (4 BR, BUA: 4200 sq.ft. Plot: 9000 sq.ft) are around 2 million now?


----------



## docc

Arno,

Green Community West is leasehold and NOT freehold. I believe its a 99 year renewable lease.


----------



## Philippa C

The green community is still a long way out and access is bad via a really terrible roundabout that is used by big trucks coming from Jebel Ali.


----------



## DubaiExpat

*To me Leasehold or Freehold - no difference*



docc said:


> Arno,
> 
> Green Community West is leasehold and NOT freehold. I believe its a 99 year renewable lease.


This afternoon, tomorrow, the week after we don't know what's going to happen. So does it make really sense if it's freehold or leasehold. The loss or profit (definitely) can be made well with in 99 years.


----------



## BenjiDXB

Green Community is somewhere in the middle of nowhere...only makes sense to live there, if you work in the Jebel Ali Freezone and/or love driving...


----------



## docc

DubaiExpat said:


> This afternoon, tomorrow, the week after we don't know what's going to happen. So does it make really sense if it's freehold or leasehold. The loss or profit (definitely) can be made well with in 99 years.


Theoretically, that is correct.

However, in most asian cultures, there exists a concept of passing on property over generations and that's where that really comes into play. Personally, i'd prefer freehold to leasehold any day.


----------



## Bobby G

Quick question. How does one open up a case against a developer and what fees are required? If I am claiming a refund from them under certain conditions. Do I need a lawyer or can I represent myself? Also can anyone recommend a lawyer?

Secondly, do I need to pay the court as well???


----------



## basheer.mohammad

*What to expect*

Hi All,

As we can see CR construction is progressing...But what do we expect after so much delay????

Is it a boon or a bane that we havent got out units delivered during this downturn?

More importantly what are we expecting finally when the units are handed over... Will the rental market take care of EMI's or we investors will be able to sell and make some moolah??

What about those guys who have paid 1800 psqft/- Are any negotiations happening or are they still hopeful of a bull market???

Any comments from wise investors pls.... these thougts are bothering this small time investor.

Basheer


----------



## googly

smussuw said:


> ...Dubai, with the emirate predicted to to be the hardest hit, with a *17.1 per cent drop in population this year* on the cards.
> 
> “We are seeing a sharp fall in rental prices in Dubai with the drop in population..." [/url]


This is the worst thing that could have happened to Dubai. A drop in population means shattered dreams for expatriates, big loss in revenue for the locals, and loss in confidence for long term foreign investors. 

To undo this, the govt needs to bring back expatriates by cutting visa fees by half, offering visas freely, and shelving all tax plans. Lets hope someone is listening. :bash:


----------



## carpetking

googly said:


> This is the worst thing that could have happened to Dubai. A drop in population means shattered dreams for expatriates, big loss in revenue for the locals, and loss in confidence for long term foreign investors.
> 
> To undo this, the govt needs to bring back expatriates by cutting visa fees by half, offering visas freely, and shelving all tax plans. Lets hope someone is listening. :bash:



yes,a free residencial visa for all property owner in Dubai :banana:


----------



## Ali_Syed

by the time we get our apartments in mid to end 2010, the rental market will around what is it is now. as we will see some more slump in this year and then a little bounce. upon receiving the apartments immediately there will be no profit if you sell, that is if you bought it at 1800. for those who bought around 700-800 they will have equity in it. but for a long time invester, around 5 years, there will be good return.

thats my opinion!


----------



## Mistermark

googly said:


> This is the worst thing that could have happened to Dubai. A drop in population means shattered dreams for expatriates, big loss in revenue for the locals, and loss in confidence for long term foreign investors.
> 
> To undo this, the govt needs to bring back expatriates by cutting visa fees by half, offering visas freely, and shelving all tax plans. Lets hope someone is listening. :bash:


Indeed. What's really frustrating about the current situation is that, perhaps not today but in the medium term, it actually has the ability to turn the negative of global recession into a major positive for itself.

While the G20 is unlikely to agree a massive global fiscal stimulus package, there are enough countries that have already gone down this route or will have to do so over the next few months to guarantee that a good proportion of the world's wealthiest countries will be saddled with massive debt, which will translate into high taxes, weak currency and inflation, over the next decade or more.

Against this background, the package of 'no direct taxation, lots of sunshine, cosmopolitan society, English spoken, guaranteed visas for those able to support themselves' is a very compelling one, if only Dubai could get that last bit right...


----------



## abf

Mistermark said:


> Indeed. What's really frustrating about the current situation is that, perhaps not today but in the medium term, it actually has the ability to turn the negative of global recession into a major positive for itself.
> 
> While the G20 is unlikely to agree a massive global fiscal stimulus package, there are enough countries that have already gone down this route or will have to do so over the next few months to guarantee that a good proportion of the world's wealthiest countries will be saddled with massive debt, which will translate into high taxes, weak currency and inflation, over the next decade or more.
> 
> Against this background, the package of 'no direct taxation, lots of sunshine, cosmopolitan society, English spoken, guaranteed visas for those able to support themselves' is a very compelling one, if only Dubai could get that last bit right...


At least Dubai authorities can start honour the commitments made by the national developers in direct knowledge of the authorities or encouraged by them and issue the visas to owners without making it a long and expensive process


----------



## basheer.mohammad

Ali_Syed said:


> by the time we get our apartments in mid to end 2010, the rental market will around what is it is now. as we will see some more slump in this year and then a little bounce. upon receiving the apartments immediately there will be no profit if you sell, that is if you bought it at 1800. for those who bought around 700-800 they will have equity in it. but for a long time invester, around 5 years, there will be good return.
> 
> thats my opinion!


Ali Thanks for the opinion. Could you elaborate on what you mean by they will have equity in it?

Also am not sure of the rental market right now in Dubai. What do you think one can expect for a 1000 sq ft apartment in Dubai Sports City


----------



## avid

*Liwan*

Well said liwanowner, the pace is indeed disappointing. My bigger concern in some buildings have not broken ground as yet, example: R008, R092,R093, etc while-as they had claimed to have sold all the units in these buildings. I am surprised no one is making a hue & cry over it. End of the day even if they get the buildings ready as per the schedule you still wouldn’t want to stay in a desert!!:bash:


----------



## HateTorch

Mistermark said:


> --- snip ---, guaranteed visas for those able to support themselves' is a very compelling one, if only Dubai could get that last bit right...


Why is everybody so eager for a Residence Visa in buying property ?
The government here is treating all the expats as pure transient visitors. There's nothing wrong in that logic ; the business model of Dubai is to attract investments for the benefits of its people first, not you.

The expats here(or investors) are creating a premium market for these visas. The authorities here could very well be using these visas as carrots to lure/manipulate us donkeys.

Pls look elsewhere other than UAE.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

All I care about is the 6 month visa, that is fine for most who want to stay several months in the Winter but "live" somewhere else.


----------



## Jeroen45

Mistermark said:


> While the G20 is unlikely to agree a massive global fiscal stimulus package, there are enough countries that have already gone down this route or will have to do so over the next few months to guarantee that a good proportion of the world's wealthiest countries will be saddled with massive debt, which will translate into high taxes, weak currency and inflation, over the next decade or more.
> 
> Against this background, the package of 'no direct taxation, lots of sunshine, cosmopolitan society, English spoken, guaranteed visas for those able to support themselves' is a very compelling one, if only Dubai could get that last bit right...


Totally agreed, if not bound to large personal debt or other important duties, the choice between the European 'Tax' Zone and the UAE is a nobrainer.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai to get 28,000 new units this year 











Speculators have exited the Dubai market. 


on Monday, March 30, 2009

About 28,000 units will be delivered in Dubai this year, as against an expected 33,000 units handed over in 2008, according to an EFG-Hermes report.

"We had previously assumed an average of 45,000 units per year to be delivered between 2008 and 2012. However, taking into account the tighter liquidity environment and the progression of only those projects that are financially sound, we now assume 28,000 units will be delivered in 2009. We expect 29,000 units to be delivered in 2010, and an average of 22,000 units between 2011 and 2015," the Egypt-based investment bank said yesterday in a report titled All that glitters… on the UAE real estate market.

The assumptions on the supply numbers are largely based on units that have been sold in the previous years and are likely to come on the market as they get delivered, with an expectation that "little or no new inventory will be released for sale during 2009".

In February, the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) said 29,319 residential units were delivered in 2008, while 31,003 and 43,880 units were set to enter the market in 2009 and 2010. A majority of the about 62,122 residential units were scheduled to be delivered by Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Holdings' real estate companies between 2008 and 2011. However, the agency's studies and research section has identified 20 per cent of residential units in 2009 may not enter the market on time, while 40 per cent of 2010 units may be delayed.

Since its last update on the UAE real estate sector in November 2008, the market is demonstrating signs of weakness as transaction volumes shrink, prices fall from their observed peaks in both Dubai and Abu Dhabi, rental inflation cools, projects get cancelled, reconsidered, delayed and economic growth contraction due to the impact of the global financial crisis begins to be felt.

"What started as a state of lower overall confidence and investors adopting a 'wait-and-watch mentality' has developed into negative sentiment. In Dubai, and Abu Dhabi to a lesser degree, the speculative froth continues to exit the market with defaults occurring particularly on properties sold during 2008 and distress sales becoming more common," Sana Kapadia, Vice-President Equity Research, EFG-Hermes, UAE, said in the property report.

Lack of liquidity remains a major concern as some mortgage companies and banks have significantly curtailed lending for home purchases. The lack of funding has limited buying activity in the market although some lending does remain, solely on a case-by-case basis, with average loan-to-value ratios having dropped from 70 to 80 per cent to 55 to 60 per cent, making it largely prohibitive for new buyers. In terms of transactional activity, while the market had only started slowing in the fourth quarter of 2008, anecdotal evidence suggests there is very limited buying activity.

Residential prices have dropped 34 per cent on average since their observed peaks in 2008 with EFG-Hermes expecting a further decline of 20 per cent.

"We expect almost no demand in 2009 and 2010 as we forecast the population of Dubai to decline 17 per cent in 2009 to 1.49 million from an estimated 1.79 million in 2008. Minimal new expatriates are expected, especially due to the sharp contraction in the real estate and financial services sector," the report said.

According to the investment bank, its residential pricing index for Dubai has seen a 13.5 per cent cumulative decline in prices since October 2008.

"We acknowledge that this index is a trailing indicator as it is based on list prices with actual transaction prices likely to be materially lower. However, the index serves as a useful directional guide to the market and in this case shows that prices are in a steady downward trend, which we believe will continue," it said.

In old Dubai (Bur Dubai, Deira, Festival City and Mirdiff), EFG-Hermes observed price corrections of 23 per cent, which were relatively muted due to limited supply. Albeit, newer off-plan products launched for sale in this area have experienced larger price drops underlining the nature of speculative activity.

In central Dubai (after Garhoud Bridge, a little beyond Business Bay), developments saw an average decline of 35 per cent.

"We believe this is largely a result of high-priced product purchased speculatively during 2008, which has now been abandoned by buyers due to their inability to meet subsequent payments," the report said.

High-priced primary market products set a new floor for the secondary market, with speculators buying into the possibility of flipping. With the turn in the market and limited opportunities available for re-selling properties, sellers are now willing to shave off a considerable amount from prices, mostly due to funding constraints.

"We continue to believe that projects located in central Dubai will continue to be exclusive, owing to the fact that this area is the downtown core of Dubai, is geographically constrained and new residential supply makes up just 10 per cent of total supply," it said.

New Dubai (beyond Business Bay to Emirates Hills) and outer new Dubai (Jebel Ali-focused areas), where a significant amount of development is expected to occur, declined 42 per cent and 36 per cent, respectively.

The report advised that structural improvement of the legal framework, increased transaction security and better transparency will be required to restore investor confidence and full-fledged recovery of the Dubai property market.

"Negative sentiment will continue to put a drag on the sector until ambiguity on ownership rights, foreclosures, strata ownership and other matters is dispelled," EFG-Hermes said.

Uae rental inflation eases

Rental inflation has started to ease in the UAE as companies initiate cost-cutting measures, layoffs and put expansion plans on hold.

"We estimate that in the fourth quarter of 2008, rents in Dubai declined three per cent on average and this decline has continued in 2009, with rents having cooled nine per cent year-to-date," said EFG-Hermes.

And investors who were previously more inclined towards holding onto units have now started releasing them in the hope of deriving rental income as property prices fall.

Interestingly, rental rate inflation in Abu Dhabi is also abating, despite the paucity of new supply and strong demand. Landlords seem to be becoming more rational in terms of expectations, taking into account weaker liquidity and exorbitant rental rates, which were becoming prohibitive.

"High rent levels are also driving some professional expatriates to live in Dubai but work in Abu Dhabi, which is exerting some downward pressure on rents in the capital. We expect 2009 to be a year of overall rental stability in Abu Dhabi, stemming less from tight demand-supply estimates but more from a conscious effort to make living in the city bearable for residents," it said.

EFG-Hermes believes rental rates in Dubai may decline in the 20 to 50 per cent range from peaks in 2009, depending on location and the scale of increase in local supply. However, the actual decrease in rents will depend more on the quantity of demand, with the expectation being that the population decreases as construction, real estate, financial services, tourism and retail note a decline in 2009. One factor, which may result in a milder drop in Dubai rents, could be the potential re-migration of working professionals from Sharjah and Ajman back to Dubai.

http://business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/3/Pages/30032009/03302009_8e5b26d0e8e5487eb9e2c1c09d4ea5cb.aspx


----------



## basheer.mohammad

*Floor Plan and Location*

Hi,

I see that the floor plan on the CR website is old plan. During contract I have been told that the floor plans are being modified and updated.

Have been handed the copy of the modified one (though it is not included in the contract)

Does anyone have an idea if there are new floor plans than what is on the website?

Also when I last visited dubai in October I couldnt figure our any park behind Venetian Building. Does anyone know if the park is still on???

What options do we have if the park is not built as proposed?

Basheer


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai has a high percentage of the population which is ex-pat.This percentage/number of ex-pats will grow hughley over the next ten years.Therefore every time there is a recession many will leave,especially if visas mean they cant stay,and Dubai will once again suffer from a big drop in the population.This will bring all the associated problems with it.
The gov needs to act to see if doesnt happen again.Its too late for this recession of course but not for the next one.


----------



## paul66

^^
Absolutely right. If the Visa issue was in place prior to the crisis, those who own property would most likely still stay in the UAE. As currently their visas would expire they have no choice but to leave.

Of course, plenty of expats will be back as soon as the crisis is over. There will be more opportunities here than, say, compared to the UK/Europe and USA. Emerging countries always jump back quicker after a recession.


----------



## aviduser

After this recession it's difficult to see the numbers of wealthy ex-pats ever being as high as it was recently. Many people have had their fingers burned in this downturn. It's hard to imagine them returning. 

Worse though is the horror stories, true false or exaggerated, that will be told by these people returning home. This negative publicity quickly becomes the new "meme" about Dubai. 

I fear Dubai will have to do MUCH MORE than it is presently doing to restore confidence in those people let alone confidence in the property market.

Paul I disagree with your sentiment, this web site and others are filled with property horror stories, these people won't be back. As I say their stories will put off people from investing here unless drastic action is taken to encourage people back. 

What is certain is that prices will never again achieve levels seen in 2007 early 2008. This is true all over the world, property won't be seen as an "asset class" for quite some time. I fear Dubai may be done though, unless something fundamental changes in the market place and changes towards the investors.


----------



## Mistermark

HateTorch said:


> Why is everybody so eager for a Residence Visa in buying property ?
> The government here is treating all the expats as pure transient visitors. There's nothing wrong in that logic ; the business model of Dubai is to attract investments for the benefits of its people first, not you.
> 
> The expats here(or investors) are creating a premium market for these visas. The authorities here could very well be using these visas as carrots to lure/manipulate us donkeys.
> 
> Pls look elsewhere other than UAE.


With respect, while I agree with you that 'the business model of Dubai is to attract investments for the benefits of its people first, not you', the point I was making was that offering residency visas to property purchasers is a great way of attracting inward investment into the real estate sector - for the benefit of the country and its existing population.

Perhaps more to the point, if Dubai wishes to continue attracting inward investment, especially at a time when liquidity is limited and its currency is strong, it urgently needs to develop a reputation for doing what it says it will do. Allowing developers to offer residency visas, then obstructing them from delivering on this, is a factor mitigating against attracting such investment.


----------



## tehsin123

*14:41 01Apr09 RTRS-Moody's downgrades Emaar on Dubai property slump*

DUBAI, April 1 (Reuters) - Moody's Investors Service said on Wednesday it had downgraded credit ratings on two Dubai state-linked companies including Emaar Properties <EMAR.DU> due to their exposure to a real estate slump in the former boomtown. 
Moody's reduced ratings for Emaar and Dubai Holding Commercial Operations Group by one notch each, *bringing Emaar's rating to Baa1 from A3, two notches above "junk" status. *
Dubai Holding's rating was cut to A2 from A1, while Moody's held ratings of four other Dubai-linked firms, including DP World <DPW.DI> and the Dubai Electricity & Water Authority, at A1. All ratings were assigned a negative outlook. 
"The one-notch downgrade of both entities reflects the more severe fundamental strains facing their business models," said Moody's, which in February announced it was considering downgrading the six companies. 
Dubai's real estate sector is facing an abrupt slowdown that could see residential real estate prices fall almost 40 percent this year, a Reuters poll forecast last month. 
Emaar derives the bulk of its revenues from Dubai, where it is building the world's tallest tower and has opened Dubai Mall, said to be the world's biggest shopping centre. Dubai Holding operates developers including Dubai Properties and Tatweer. 
"Both companies are real estate master developers with hospitality businesses and are thus more immediately exposed to the Dubai real estate market," Moody's said. "We also believe that both companies' mandates are relatively narrower in scope compared to the companies that were confirmed." 
The Moody's move comes after Standard & Poor's last month downgraded credit ratings of seven Dubai companies, including Emaar, and said it was worried about the health of banks. 
Moody's said it retained ratings of the other Dubai firms because Dubai's move to sell $10 billion in bonds to the United Arab Emirates central bank eased worries about the ability of the emirate's companies to refinance and settle debts. 
Dubai will begin disbursing funds to companies in two weeks, the director-general of the Dubai Department of Finance told Reuters last week. 
The funds would target Dubai World -- which owns DP World and Nakheel -- Dubai Holding and domestic firms in Dubai's sovereign wealth fund's portfolio, Nasser al-Shaikh said. 
Dubai is one of the seven emirates comprising the oil-exporting UAE federation, where Abu Dhabi holds more than 90 percent of oil reserves.


----------



## glover

*Barclays poised to relax UAE mortgage rules*

_begining of a turnaround!!_
------------------------------
by Alex Delmar-Morgan
arabianbusinees.com

Wednesday, 01 April 2009
LENDING RULES: Barclays Bank said on Wednesday it was set to be more actively involved in mortgage lending soon. 

Hopes for the UAE housing market received a further boost on Wednesday after Barclays said it was set to lend more aggressively.

*The news comes just 24 hours after HSBC announced a dramatic easing in lending policy, offering 75 percent financing on completed villas, 70 percent on completed apartments and 50 percent on off-plan units.*

Previously its loan to value ratio was 60 percent and 50 percent on villas and apartments.

UK lender Barclays is believed to be weeks away from implementing its lending strategy in a sign that the liquidity problems that have prevented banks from borrowing at all but exorbitant levels on the money markets are improving.

“Barclays is closely evaluating the property market and will be more actively engaged in mortgage lending in near future. We have never pulled out of the market and in the recent past Barclays remained cautious in the best interest of consumers,” a spokesman for the bank told Arabian Business.

A regional liquidity crunch in the last six months has seen many banks slash their loan to value ratios, making it harder for investors to get a mortgage. Lack of mortgage availability has also contributed to falling house prices in the UAE.

Currently Barclays is lending 60 percent on villas and apartments in the UAE and is not financing off-plan properties.


----------



## IISinbadII

:deadthrea


----------



## kano

^^^We had too many flippers who have left!


----------



## IISinbadII

kano said:


> ^^^We had too many flippers who have left!


Not only the flippers but investors are also leaving. 
And 6 month visa proposal is a joke. If they don't issue long term visas to owners, the end users would be forced to leave.


----------



## Jeroen45

IISinbadII said:


> And 6 month visa proposal is a joke. If they don't issue long term visas to owners, the end users would be forced to leave.


Isn't it true that affordable housing for 'his people' is a big part of Sheikh Mohammed's plan? Well done, I should say.

For the locals on this thread, do you think European people, dreaming of a better life, who want to make a living while respecting Islamic principles are welcome in Dubai for the long term? They could contribute in a big way to the bright future of Dubai, that can't be a problem, or is it?


----------



## Pleth

carpetking said:


> yes,a free residencial visa for all property owner in Dubai :banana:


Agree. It is the only way. ^^


----------



## Pleth

Mistermark said:


> Indeed. What's really frustrating about the current situation is that, perhaps not today but in the medium term, it actually has the ability to turn the negative of global recession into a major positive for itself.
> 
> While the G20 is unlikely to agree a massive global fiscal stimulus package, there are enough countries that have already gone down this route or will have to do so over the next few months to guarantee that a good proportion of the world's wealthiest countries will be saddled with massive debt, which will translate into high taxes, weak currency and inflation, over the next decade or more.
> 
> Against this background, the package of 'no direct taxation, lots of sunshine, cosmopolitan society, English spoken, guaranteed visas for those able to support themselves' is a very compelling one, if only Dubai could get that last bit right...


Exactly! When Europe is putting their taxes up tons and tons, the high educated Europeans, European businesses and industry, the hard working people and the brains will be leaving. And here UAE will be wise to open their doors.
Hamriyah and Jebel Ali Free Zone are already extending their areas. Wise choice.


----------



## Pleth

Jeroen45 said:


> Isn't it true that affordable housing for 'his people' is a big part of Sheikh Mohammed's plan? Well done, I should say.
> 
> For the locals on this thread, do you think European people, dreaming of a better life, who want to make a living while respecting Islamic principles are welcome in Dubai for the long term? They could contribute in a big way to the bright future of Dubai, that can't be a problem, or is it?


No it is not a problem. Not many countries in the world would welcome so many foreigners like Dubai has done. What would British or Danish people say to having 85% foreigners in their countries? hno:

We expats are very lucky to be welcome here in wonderful Dubai and UAE, but our problem is that the Visas have become too expensive. If I buy a property in Turkey or Greece I do not have to pay for my visa. But in Dubai I have to pay dearly for my visa and my childrens visa.

Before you buy property in Dubai or UAE, you need to consider 2 things:
1) Can I afford the expensive maintenance charges i.e. 20 - 25 AED per square foot?
2) Am I willing to pay... and can I afford to pay for visas to be able to stay in my own apartment? Not just for me, but for my children, husband/wife and family?

^^


----------



## Dubai_Steve

IISinbadII said:


> And 6 month visa proposal is a joke. If they don't issue long term visas to owners, the end users would be forced to leave.


Why? Just renew the 6 month renewable visa every 6 months, what is the problem with that?


----------



## HappyLarry

6 month renewable is how it works elsewhere. So, why are people expecting Dubai to be longer or even indefinite.
I am from UK and certainly don't expect Dubai to give me a open residency. Why, should it?
Buying an investment property in Dubai that benefits me more than it does Dubai is not good enough tradeoff. So long as I can visit without to much fuss, I don't really care.
However, I will say that if a person is an asset to Dubai then I am sure it will be recognised and they will have the permission to stay.
:cheers:


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> Why? Just renew the 6 month renewable visa every 6 months, what is the problem with that?


Most people wanting to live in Dubai bring in their families. In the 3 year visa system they had some reassurance that they could stay for 3 years, send their kids to school without worry for 3 years. People need consistency and piece of mind. Who wants to send their children to school for a year on a 6 month visa? 

Also it would be expensive to pay visa fee every 6 months for the whole family.



> 6 month renewable is how it works elsewhere. So, why are people expecting Dubai to be longer or even indefinite.I am from UK and certainly don't expect Dubai to give me a open residency. Why, should it?


Dubai is a developing country. They have to offer something extra to attract people. Comparing Dubai with other developed and established cities is not fair. 




> Buying an investment property in Dubai that benefits me more than it does Dubai is not good enough tradeoff.


The more time you spend in Dubai, the more it will benefit.



> So long as I can visit without to much fuss, I don't really care.


Its not about you....... Its about people wanting to buy or rent your property. Visa problems cause less demand which is bad for property value. A more attractive package means more demand and value for your property.



> However, I will say that if a person is an asset to Dubai then I am sure it will be recognised and they will have the permission to stay.


That is job based visa. We are talking about visa based on property ownership.

There are thousands of ex-pats working in Dubai. Their children were born and raised in Dubai. Dubai is the only home they know. After their contracts are up, or they retire they want to stay in Dubai. Property based visa gives them that option.


----------



## smussuw

I think it is clear that this 6 months residency visa is for people to be able to visit the city, not to live here.


----------



## Hanna

*Is this story typical of Rera telling you anything to be rid of you (pass the buck) Dubai laws leaves a lot to be desired !*

Thursday, April 2, 2009

Diary of a distressed property investor, Part IV - - RERA and other Departments you need to survive ? your property nightmare in Dubai


http://dubai7stars.blogspot.com/

source Kippreport

We know that property investors are struggling, and for the most part, we know why. But what most of us don’t know are everyday struggles they’re going through. One investor agreed to write a journal of her experiences for Kipp. We asked her to be ruthless: she obliged.

Click here to read Part I

Click here to read Part II

Click here to read Part III

Ah Rera. I loved the new regulations and announcements you made over the past eight months, and the threats you were making to incomplian developers raised my hopes that you’d come through for me.I was wrong. Mind you, I know you have good intentions. All the announcements you’ve made recently are very nice, but it’s too bad that no one in your building has heard of them.After months of waiting for my good-for-nothing developer to come through with either an announcement that they’ve broken ground or that they’ve cancelled the project, I decided to go to Rera to understand my rights, and to know what I would need to do to cancel my contract and get my money back.Before I went, I called the authority a number of times to know what documents I needed to have with me to argue my case. Aside from the contract and the receipts, Rera asked me to prepare a letter explaining everything that had happened up until that point, and to outline – in detail – why I wanted to cancel my contract. I wrote it, printed it and filed it along with the hundreds of papers I had gathered about my developer.
I was ready! Unfortunately, however, Rera wasn’t. I was told to get a number and wait for my turn at counter two. There was no one attending to counter two. I waited. I sat there with a file on my lap determined not to lose my temper, and waited for over an hour and fifteen minutes. No one showed up. I asked around if someone actually works at counter two, and I was told to be patient. So I waited some more.And then, the guy sitting at counter one asked me what my issue was. I told him, and he said: ‘You shouldn’t be waiting here. You should go to the fourth floor, room 413, and speak to a legal consultant.’So I went to room 413, where I found a waiting room with three people: two men and one woman, each sitting behind a desk chatting. I sat down and waited. Finally, one of the consultants turned to me and asked me what the problem was. I explained the whole thing. He said I should take my case to the Dubai Courts, and to speak to someone in the real estate section. I asked him why I had been told to come to Rera. He said he didn’t know.Neither did I.So I went to the Dubai Courts. I asked where the real estate department is, and I was taken by a helper to the department, and that’s when it hit me: no wonder developers feel they can do what they want. The department was made up of four men, two of which were throwing paper balls at each other, the third guy, the receptionist, was playing a game on his phone, and fourth man, the only one who was helping, was neither in mood nor capable of speaking English.I spoke to him with my broken Arabic, explaining the mess I’m in and what I need from my developer (my money, my dignity, plus 9 percent interest). He was helpful, and once we got talking, he proved to be helpful. But the process he outlined hurt my brain.He told me to draft a letter stating all the laws my developer has broken, and have it translated in Arabic. Then I should go to the public notary at the Dubai Court and have the letter authenticated. The court would then send the letter to the developer in the hopes that the mavericks would run to their escrow account and withdraw my cash.If that doesn’t work, he said, go to court.Court! I have never gone to court before. I didn’t even know how much hiring a lawyer costs. So I called a number of British and Emirati law firms to get an idea.Apparently, here’s how it works: if I seek legal representation from a foreign lawyer, I’d have to pay him or her up to AED1,800 an hour for the ground work, but I’d also have to pay court fees and hire a local lawyer – who’d get up to 15 percent of what the court awards me – if my case goes to court. So, my foreign lawyer would act as a consultant to my local lawyer; in short, I’d have a team of lawyers, and I could kiss my present and future savings goodbye.Or, I can go straight to a local lawyer and pay him or her directly. But then I wouldn’t have peace of mind.It’s a tough choice, especially given that what little money I have is tied in a phantom property.I was ready to give the translator and typist the letter that I drafted for Rera, but then I realized that I still have no idea what my rights are. How am I supposed to know if my developer has broken property laws if I don’t know what the laws are? And what am I supposed to understand of the property laws if most of the people I encountered at Rera and the court each told me a different story? The only laws I can reiterate are those that have appeared in the press, such as the much-contested and highly controversial Law 13. And to be fair, I don’t even know what it actually says, I just like the fact that investors have won cases because their lawyer’s cited it in court; last week an investor won his money back because his developer failed to register the transaction 60 days after it took place…thank you Law 13.Incidentally, does anyone know how to find out whether your property or transaction has been registered with the Land Department?In any case, I decided against having my letter translated. I didn’t want my developer to read a ‘threatening’ letter that had gaps. I wanted them read something that’ll knock them unconscious.All I need now are the laws. Does anyone know where I can find them…in English?


----------



## Dusty in Dubai

*Lending to improve*

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/551338-barclays-poised-to-relax-uae-real-estate-lending


better news for the market


----------



## AppleMac

Dubai_Steve said:


> Why? Just renew the 6 month renewable visa every 6 months, what is the problem with that?


I agree - I just cannot see the problem with this.

If the residency visa is Federally guaranteed for the life of your ownership of the property they does it really matter how often you must renew? - If it is 6 months then it is still better than practically anywhere else.


----------



## AppleMac

IISinbadII said:


> Most people wanting to live in Dubai bring in their families. In the 3 year visa system they had some reassurance that they could stay for 3 years, send their kids to school without worry for 3 years. People need consistency and piece of mind. Who wants to send their children to school for a year on a 6 month visa?


What proportion of the property market are wealthy enough to be able to live here on a 3 year visa without working?

If they need to work then there are other ways to get a residence visa should you need it rather than buy property.


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> I think it is clear that this 6 months residency visa is for people to be able to visit the city, not to live here.


Exactly. And this means less end-users and less demand for property.


----------



## tehsin123

AppleMac said:


> I agree - I just cannot see the problem with this.
> 
> If the residency visa is Federally guaranteed for the life of your ownership of the property they does it really matter how often you must renew? - If it is 6 months then it is still better than practically anywhere else.


You are forgetting the fact that you are not in democratic system. Laws can be changed overnight with a decree. What happens if, for whatever reason, 6 month rule is changed to one week visit right only??
Dubai has to establish confindence that it has a mature legal and rights system which is equal across all nationalities.


----------



## dubsolos1

Hi everyone,

So far we have about 20 people signed in to our group for a total of over 40 units.

The people that have not signed in I invite to write to [email protected] as we are meeting this Saturday.

Thanks

RE Group


----------



## smussuw

IISinbadII said:


> Exactly. And this means less end-users and less demand for property.


:banana:


----------



## AppleMac

tehsin123 said:


> You are forgetting the fact that you are not in democratic system. Laws can be changed overnight with a decree. What happens if, for whatever reason, 6 month rule is changed to one week visit right only??


But that could happen even if the visa was valid for 3 years - you either trust (take a chance?) on existing law or you dont.


----------



## kano

smussuw said:


> I think it is clear that this 6 months residency visa is for people to be able to visit the city, not to live here.


Probably like the UK where you usually get 6 months on a vistors visa.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*U.K. House Prices Unexpectedly Increased in March*

U.K. house prices unexpectedly rose for the first time since October 2007 after the Bank of England’s interest-rate cuts attracted buyers to the property market, Nationwide Building Society said. 

The average cost of a home jumped 0.9 percent in March from the previous month to 150,946 pounds ($218,000), the mortgage lender said in a statement today. All 13 economists in a Bloomberg News survey predicted a decline. 

Mortgage approvals rose to a nine-month high in February, evidence the slump in housing transactions may be starting to ease after a 15.7 percent drop in prices during the past year. The Bank of England reduced the benchmark interest rate to a record low of 0.5 percent last month and started buying assets with newly created money to fight Britain’s recession. 

“It is far too soon to see this as evidence that the trough of the market has been reached,” Fionnuala Earley, chief economist at Nationwide, said in the statement. “The willingness of borrowers to return to the market is encouraging and likely to in part reflect the falling cost of borrowing.” 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=afkxkiMTXYBI&refer=uk


----------



## Mistermark

Dubai_Steve said:


> U.K. house prices unexpectedly rose for the first time since October 2007 after the Bank of England’s interest-rate cuts attracted buyers to the property market, Nationwide Building Society said.
> 
> The average cost of a home jumped 0.9 percent in March from the previous month to 150,946 pounds ($218,000), the mortgage lender said in a statement today. All 13 economists in a Bloomberg News survey predicted a decline.
> 
> Mortgage approvals rose to a nine-month high in February, evidence the slump in housing transactions may be starting to ease after a 15.7 percent drop in prices during the past year. The Bank of England reduced the benchmark interest rate to a record low of 0.5 percent last month and started buying assets with newly created money to fight Britain’s recession.
> 
> “It is far too soon to see this as evidence that the trough of the market has been reached,” Fionnuala Earley, chief economist at Nationwide, said in the statement. “The willingness of borrowers to return to the market is encouraging and likely to in part reflect the falling cost of borrowing.”
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=afkxkiMTXYBI&refer=uk


I don't believe the statistics - or, perhaps more accurately, I don't think they're wholly representative of trends. Currently the number of transactions is very low as most sellers don't want to exit at depressed prices and there's a lack of first-time buyers and BTL investors due to the deposits needed.

We may see further falls in the second half of the year, when repossessions due to increasing job losses become more of a factor and more owners move off the artificially low 'base rate plus 0.01%'-type loans offered in the boom to the artifically expensive 'base plus 4% or more' the banks are now making people to sign up to due to the lending famine.


----------



## aviduser

Two words BULL TRAP ^^^^^^^


----------



## FWIW

Philippa C said:


> Can you disclose any further info, like when the new amendment is likely to be announced? Thanks


Here you go:

http://groups.google.com/group/duba...b04f3/05535809a79af024?hl=en#05535809a79af024


----------



## FWIW

Wannaberich said:


> This is bad news.Panorama on british tv tonight slating dubai big time !
> *They just dont like fcuking Dubai do they !!!*
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_7981000/7981320.stm


^^Only when it's on the beach and you can shout at a policeman!:bash:


----------



## HappyLarry

Wannaberich said:


> This is bad news.Panorama on british tv tonight slating dubai big time !
> They just dont like fcuking Dubai do they !!!
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_7981000/7981320.stm


I saw the program and it was scathing. However, I think it painted a false picture. For a start, it is highly unlikely that 1M workers from ind/pak/bang are earning 600AED a month. That's far to many people working on not enough projects. In other words, an average of 2,500 workers working on 400 project.

If things were bad in all camps, there would be a riot and nothing would be built.

Sure, first group and Arabtec will hurridly get there act together and paper over the crap (literally).

I don't think BBC can lay it on Dubai's door. It is the agents that are exploiting desparate people wanting to make a better life for their families.

Let's hope working conditions are improved and pay is increased. 

Come on Arabtec, First Group and others guilty of similar situation. Sort it out. I hope Sh. Mohammed will make a gesture.


----------



## Imre

bad news

*Two beaches in Dubai closed as traces of Red Tide surfaces *










Dubai: Beaches near Burj Al Arab and another one located close to the Umm Suqeim Park have been closed by the Dubai Municipality as traces of Red Tide in these two beaches have surfaced again. 

Mohammad Abdul Rehman Hassan, the head of the marine environment and wildlife section, told Gulf News that there were no traces of Red Tide found on Dubai shores in the morning during water testing. 

Red tide is the result of an influx of a type of algal bloom; it is so named because it turns the water a reddish colour. 

"They have surfaced again and so we have decided to close the beaches to ensure the safety of beachgoers. People are advised not to venture into these two beaches. They should make no contact with the water, nor consume the dead fishes that are washed ashore. Care should also be taken not to inhale the air after a wave hits the shoreline. This can prove hazardous to health," he said. 

Hassan did not rule out the possibility of shutting down more beaches if the Red Tide continues to frequent the area.

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Environment/10301692.html


----------



## tehsin123

HappyLarry said:


> I saw the program and it was scathing. However, I think it painted a false picture. For a start, it is highly unlikely that 1M workers from ind/pak/bang are earning 600AED a month. That's far to many people working on not enough projects. In other words, an average of 2,500 workers working on 400 project.
> 
> If things were bad in all camps, there would be a riot and nothing would be built.
> 
> Sure, first group and Arabtec will hurridly get there act together and paper over the crap (literally).
> 
> I don't think BBC can lay it on Dubai's door. It is the agents that are exploiting desparate people wanting to make a better life for their families.
> 
> Let's hope working conditions are improved and pay is increased.
> 
> Come on Arabtec, First Group and others guilty of similar situation. Sort it out. I hope Sh. Mohammed will make a gesture.


It is a fact that IM workers are paid AED 600 pm with highly unhygenic living conditions. Riots, there were many during last few years but those were supressed.
For a major part this report is not exact, but very close to real situation.


----------



## sam69

*More Dubai Bashing!*

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

The INDEPENDENT 07.04.09:bash:


----------



## peacesells

tehsin123 said:


> It is a fact that IM workers are paid AED 600 pm with highly unhygenic living conditions. Riots, there were many during last few years but those were supressed.
> For a major part this report is not exact, but very close to real situation.


The 600 Dhs a month plus shitty living conditions exist but are an exception rather than the rule. 

Our workers start with 700 dhs + 200 dhs allowance for food for 'helper' (unskilled), 900 + 300 for carpenter/mason/steel fixer/etc (skilled) and up. They get 40 sq ft of space each as per DM requirements, coke and soft drinks on site during slab casting and occassional treats from the owner (eg. during Eid they slaughter lambs and bring two or three to the labor camp). They all sleep in beds in a decent camp about 20 minutes away from the site by bus, all rooms have A/Cs paid by the owner. When asked, so long as they get paid on time (no more than a month delay), they are generally happy. So yeah it isn't Emirates Hills life of leisure but it's not exactly a prison camp either. 

We don't feel this is 'special' treatment, this is normal practice in most construction companies.


----------



## rexdmx

sam69 said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
> 
> The INDEPENDENT 07.04.09:bash:


is that a false argument?


----------



## rexdmx

peacesells said:


> The 600 Dhs a month plus shitty living conditions exist but are an exception rather than the rule.
> 
> Our workers start with 700 dhs + 200 dhs allowance for food for 'helper' (unskilled), 900 + 300 for carpenter/mason/steel fixer/etc (skilled) and up. They get 40 sq ft of space each as per DM requirements, coke and soft drinks on site during slab casting and occassional treats from the owner (eg. during Eid they slaughter lambs and bring two or three to the labor camp). They all sleep in beds in a decent camp about 20 minutes away from the site by bus, all rooms have A/Cs paid by the owner. When asked, so long as they get paid on time (no more than a month delay), they are generally happy. So yeah it isn't Emirates Hills life of leisure but it's not exactly a prison camp either.
> 
> We don't feel this is 'special' treatment, this is normal practice in most construction companies.


let me guess, you haven't been in a labour camp before right?


----------



## Goss

peacesells said:


> The 600 Dhs a month plus shitty living conditions exist but are an exception rather than the rule.
> 
> Our workers start with 700 dhs + 200 dhs allowance for food for 'helper' (unskilled), 900 + 300 for carpenter/mason/steel fixer/etc (skilled) and up. They get 40 sq ft of space each as per DM requirements, coke and soft drinks on site during slab casting and occassional treats from the owner (eg. during Eid they slaughter lambs and bring two or three to the labor camp). They all sleep in beds in a decent camp about 20 minutes away from the site by bus, all rooms have A/Cs paid by the owner. When asked, so long as they get paid on time (no more than a month delay), they are generally happy. So yeah it isn't Emirates Hills life of leisure but it's not exactly a prison camp either.
> 
> We don't feel this is 'special' treatment, this is normal practice in most construction companies.


Wow do your labourers really earn £30 a week?


----------



## peacesells

rexdmx said:


> let me guess, you haven't been in a labour camp before right?


I picked out the one the labourers are staying at. Been to the Al Quz ones and the ones in Sonapur. 

As far as the wages go, yes, the lowest an unskilled worker gets is 900 dhs per month plus accomodation (that costs the company appx 500 dhs per person per month), uniform and transport to and from the site. Not sure what that is in pounds though.


----------



## rexdmx

i went to a few in al quoz... and the wages there was less than 500 Aed PER MONTH...
the whole place was flooded with sewage as i was inspecting it... and the labourers were complaining bitterly...oddly enough with a weird smile plastered on their face.

i had to cross the water jumping from stone to stone to reach the concrete. my basketball days does have its useful moments


----------



## peacesells

rexdmx said:


> i went to a few in al quoz... and the wages there was less than 500 Aed PER MONTH...
> the whole place was flooded with sewage as i was inspecting it... and the labourers were complaining bitterly...oddly enough with a weird smile plastered on their face.
> 
> i had to cross the water jumping from stone to stone to reach the concrete. my basketball days does have its useful moments


Everyone complains about their jobs


----------



## Imre

Imre said:


> bad news
> 
> *Two beaches in Dubai closed as traces of Red Tide surfaces *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dubai: Beaches near Burj Al Arab and another one located close to the Umm Suqeim Park have been closed by the Dubai Municipality as traces of Red Tide in these two beaches have surfaced again.
> 
> Mohammad Abdul Rehman Hassan, the head of the marine environment and wildlife section, told Gulf News that there were no traces of Red Tide found on Dubai shores in the morning during water testing.
> 
> Red tide is the result of an influx of a type of algal bloom; it is so named because it turns the water a reddish colour.
> 
> "They have surfaced again and so we have decided to close the beaches to ensure the safety of beachgoers. People are advised not to venture into these two beaches. They should make no contact with the water, nor consume the dead fishes that are washed ashore. Care should also be taken not to inhale the air after a wave hits the shoreline. This can prove hazardous to health," he said.
> 
> Hassan did not rule out the possibility of shutting down more beaches if the Red Tide continues to frequent the area.
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Environment/10301692.html


false info as always..

07/April/2009

Beach, next to the Burj Al Arab


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

^^^^ So much for Dubai's Code of Conduct...  

And arent these people going to get sick???


----------



## 234sale

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/inte...-ceo-leaves-company&wAd=206720516&wTime=60000

The CEO and managing director have both left real estate firm Omniyat Properties, Arabian Business can reveal.


----------



## peacesells

234sale said:


> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/inte...-ceo-leaves-company&wAd=206720516&wTime=60000
> 
> The CEO and managing director have both left real estate firm Omniyat Properties, Arabian Business can reveal.


Just as well, they have a chairman, a managing director AND a CEO? That's three people in charge already!


----------



## HappyLarry

peacesells said:


> Just as well, they have a chairman, a managing director AND a CEO? That's three people in charge already!


The chairman has his hands full, now. Let's hope he can sort the mess out.


----------



## 234sale

So nothings up, just move along nothing to see.....


----------



## Golucky200

*Legal action against Sheffield*

Heard over the grape vine, this tower is never going to be built. hno:Lot of investors have already filed a case against Sheffield. It seems Sheffield issueing a legal notice to investors and trying to forfeit the amount as fast as they could in this difficult times instead of giving a flexible payment plan. Also, heard that some of them are getting their money back since Sheffield has no strong ground to keep the money with them.:nuts:


----------



## speculator

Mistermark said:


> You've been reading the Daily Mail too long...
> 
> I accept that there's a lot wrong with the UK, but I think the situation is not quite as bad as you make out.


The situation in the UK is very bad. Honestly we cant even go out into town in the evenings as a family with young kids. You would surely get your head kicked in. You have to behave like a yob to gain respect. My wife had her hand bag snatched two weeks ago in a public car park with other bystanders. Fortunaltey we do not live in a major buslting city as it would be even worse.

Problems are everywhere, socially & economically, except the British media have a way of twisting the facts.


----------



## Dockside

UK_TO_DUBAI said:


> There is so much going on in UK itself... this is just an example
> 
> http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article...motionless&in_article_id=613956&in_page_id=34
> 
> Teenage Crime, Drug-Alcohol Consumption and Preganancy rate is highest in Europe.
> 
> there are over 3 miillion illegal immigrant living in UK and they get less than £20 a day...that comes 120/week and 480/month...Average cost for living is around £400/month even if they share a 3 bed house standard house which can only accommodate 6 person...but if you go to South London, Eastham, some part of wembley, Manchester...average 16-20 people live there sharing only 1 or 2 toilet....the nationals including polish,Eastern European, Russian,chinese, African and Asian..its very hard to save £100/month for them...i have worked with homless charity organisation during my study time...the situation is far far worst than any other country....
> 
> there are estimating over a 3 million unemplyed people living in britain...they just claim the benifit and heavily involved in crime....
> 
> i think they have to look in their mirror first...
> 
> i have seen many example that people get killed just to get £2 or £5...imagine what kind of crime is going on in UK...


So what other country should take all those illegals ? 
Great, all the worlds scum converge in the UK for free hand-outs, how do fix this problem ??


----------



## Imre

*Dubai shines despite global crisis *



Dubai: While the global outlook has been grim in terms of the real estate industry, every cloud has a silver lining and nowhere is the lining more silver than in Dubai.

Despite being a small city, Dubai functions as a powerhouse, especially within the spheres of business, trade, real estate and construction.

Obtaining home financing has been one of the biggest challenges in Dubai this year so far. With property prices plummeting in recent weeks, many people were hoping to jump on the property wagon but huge deposit requirements and a distinct lack of mortgages are preventing buying activity.

A recent report from Moody's, carrying the snappy title Arabian Gulf Real Estate Market Industry Outlook, notes that "a nascent mortgage industry cannot fully compensate for a funding shortfall from other sources." 

The other reason that people are not buying at the moment, especially off-plan, is the well-used reason of negative sentiment. 

Ahmad Shaikhani, managing director of Memon Investments, agrees.

"With the ongoing financial crisis, the UAE's real estate sector will be dealing with a lot of challenges hurled its way. At present, we believe the market is facing three primary challenges - falling property prices, the lack of mortgage availability and a serious confidence crunch within the market," Shaikhani told Gulf News. Would it help buying activity if mortgage criteria were relaxed and people weren't asked to come up with unrealistic deposits?

"Looking at how the sector has managed to cope with the financial crisis, it would be an essential and strategic move to revive both the construction and real estate markets," Shaikani said.

The silver lining is that, despite such challenges and many negative media reports, especially from the international press, Dubai is still tipped to emerge from the global crisis within the next 12 months.

Due to the drop in commodity prices and construction costs, the sector is set to continue to expand. Developers, learning their lessons the hard way, are now more focused on delivering projects, rather than counting the dirhams rolling in.

The $10 billion bond initiative is expected to ease financial burdens and help propel the economy.

Global real estate service Jones Lang LaSalle have said that while 2009 is a year of correction, 2010 will be a stabilising year, followed by market recovery in 2011.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10302455.html


----------



## Wannaberich

speculator said:


> The situation in the UK is very bad. Honestly we cant even go out into town in the evenings as a family with young kids. You would surely get your head kicked in. You have to behave like a yob to gain respect. My wife had her hand bag snatched two weeks ago in a public car park with other bystanders. Fortunaltey we do not live in a major buslting city as it would be even worse.
> 
> Problems are everywhere, socially & economically, except the British media have a way of twisting the facts.


A slight exaggeration.Where do u live,Moss side Manchester?


----------



## UK_TO_DUBAI

i live in one of the safest borough in UK....but i think ten times before i go out after 7 pm without my car.....and you can not find anyone on the street after 9pm...as it looks like you are in desert...


----------



## Mavekris

I am not sure is this link was posted before 

Scary stuff i must say

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

God Bless All.

This para in the above link is very true this is how they are lured.


Sahinal Monir, a slim 24-year-old from the deltas of Bangladesh. "To get you here, they tell you Dubai is heaven. Then you get here and realise it is hell," he says. Four years ago, an employment agent arrived in Sahinal's village in Southern Bangladesh. He told the men of the village that there was a place where they could earn 40,000 takka a month (£400) just for working nine-to-five on construction projects. It was a place where they would be given great accommodation, great food, and treated well. All they had to do was pay an up-front fee of 220,000 takka (£2,300) for the work visa – a fee they'd pay off in the first six months, easy. So Sahinal sold his family land, and took out a loan from the local lender, to head to this paradise.

As soon as he arrived at Dubai airport, his passport was taken from him by his construction company. He has not seen it since. He was told brusquely that from now on he would be working 14-hour days in the desert heat – where western tourists are advised not to stay outside for even five minutes in summer, when it hits 55 degrees – for 500 dirhams a month (£90), less than a quarter of the wage he was promised. If you don't like it, the company told him, go home. "But how can I go home? You have my passport, and I have no money for the ticket," he said. "Well, then you'd better get to work," they replied.

Sahinal was in a panic. His family back home – his son, daughter, wife and parents – were waiting for money, excited that their boy had finally made it. But he was going to have to work for more than two years just to pay for the cost of getting here – and all to earn less than he did in Bangladesh.


----------



## Wannaberich

UK_TO_DUBAI said:


> i live in one of the safest borough in UK....but i think ten times before i go out after 7 pm without my car.....and you can not find anyone on the street after 9pm...as it looks like you are in desert...


Im not in the desert and u are def not in one of the safest boroughs in the UK.


----------



## lovedubai

High Times said:


> I'm not sure about how long it will take on a global level but i can tell you that HSBC are just about to devote £1 billion of funds to 90% LTV mortgages in the UK. If other big players follow suit then this could be the shot of addrenaline the mortgage market needs to breath life back into the UK housing market.
> 
> This will be announced to the public soon I'm sure. Remember where you heard it first.


High Times - you're the new guru! 

HSBC announced this today.


----------



## 234sale

that info was released yesterday anyway.. 
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=110766
if you want to chat about uk house prices...

In 5 months the fsa is likely to regulate 3.5x salaries,, actual salaries and not liar loans.

16 months ago, I had approved 10x my actual salary, 90%ltv... today the most I can get is 5x, on 70% ltv from RBS, UAE branch.



I can't see a bottom in uk house prices for at least 2 years.


----------



## dubsolos1

an extract from an article in xpress:

Rera: Dealing with defaulters:

“Some investors do not make the payments or refrain from making further payments due to fears that developers may fold up or run away,” Mohammad said. 

The Real Estate Court, a civil court, was created in September last year to deal with property disputes arising in the wake of Dubai’s property boom. 

Most of the cases involve buyers who have stopped paying for units booked with developers. 

* Read related story: Damac 'will pay out over project delays'

“In this case, the developer has to alert Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), which then informs the investor that he has a 30-day period to fulfil his contractual obligations. “If the investor does not fulfil his obligations, the developer has the right to cancel the contract and return the money paid, minus 30 per cent of the amount already paid – and not of the total contract value,” he said. 

Pay back clause 

“A number of investors wish to discontinue payment and are trying to get back 70 per cent of the amount they paid. As per law, developers are supposed to retain 30 per cent of the amount already paid by the investor,” he added. 

The judge’s explanation puts to rest confusion surrounding this clause. Developers used to claim that they may keep 30 per cent of the total contract unit’s price and not 30 per cent of the amount paid, in case an investor withdraws. 

The judge also explained that when a purchase agreement signed by the buyer and seller contains provisions that contradict the law, those provisions stand null and void. 

“Property laws in Dubai contain general laws. Provisions in the purchase contract are accepted as legal if they do not breach the law,” Mohammad said. Other cases involve delays in construction and hand-over of properties sold off-plan, he explained. 

Developers at fault 

“We have cases lodged against developers who did not hand over projects on time or have not even started building. In such cases, we look at the contracts individually and then the court decides. If the developer is found to be at fault, we then nullify the contract and order them to repay investors the full amount paid by them.” 

Many of the cases lodged by investors have to do with properties sold off-plan, he added. 

“A lot of complainants come to the court without purchase contracts. They present only booking forms issued by either developers or property brokers. The court settles contractual disputes. So, in case of booking forms or instalment receipts issued to buyers, these documents are viewed as contracts, but disputes arising out of clauses not mentioned in these documents need to be proved in court,” he said. 

full story at:
http://www.xpress4me.com/news/uae/dubai/20012850.html


----------



## High Times

*234sale.* 

Just out of interest is there any reason why after I have posted something that someone decides to praise, you feel it neccasary to highlight the fact that the information was available elsewhere, or was not my own copyright, even if i had not made such a claim.

You have singled me out very specifically on more than one occasion now.

I'm just curious why you do this only to me. Have we got a special relationship i was unaware of. :kiss:



IISinbadII said:


> As before, again an EXCELLENT post *High Times*.
> 
> kay: kay:


 


234sale said:


> Where HT got some of the quotes form,,
> http://www.investopedia.com/university/Dowtheory/Dowtheory3.asp


 


lovedubai said:


> High Times - you're the new guru!
> 
> HSBC announced this today.





234sale said:


> that info was released yesterday anyway..
> [URL]http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=110766[/URL]


Makes you look very petty.



234sale said:


> I can't see a bottom in uk house prices for at least 2 years.


^^
Oh, and your way out with this by the way. You must have been out in the sun too long. You can quote me on that one.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai has begun disbursing a $10 billion fund it raised to battle the impact of the global credit crisis and its economy is past the worst of the danger, the Persian Gulf emirate’s top finance official said. 

“We are talking about big sums here,” Nasser Bin Hassan al-Shaikh, director general of the Department of Finance, said in an interview late yesterday. “The bad days are over” for the economy, which is stabilizing and will gradually recover. 

Economic growth in Dubai, the second-biggest of seven states that make up the United Arab Emirates, slumped after the worst financial crisis since the 1930s hurt its property, financial services and tourism industries. The emirate’s economy may contract between 2 percent and 4 percent this year, Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services said in a report March 17. 

The economy still expanded in the first quarter, al-Shaikh said. In February, Dubai sold $10 billion of five-year bonds to the U.A.E. central bank, part of a $20 billion medium-term note program, to help state-affiliated companies struggling to raise cash. That money will be used to meet payment shortfalls and repay loans, the government said Feb. 25. 

“Most of the support will be offered to the property” companies since they are the pillars of Dubai’s economy, al- Shaikh said. The Department of Finance will announce an overall figure for funds paid out and approved for disbursal “very soon” but not the companies that have received help, he added. 

Adviser Appointed 

Earlier this month, Dubai hired investment bank N.M. Rothschild & Sons Ltd. to help construct the support fund. 

Dubai’s economy is “beginning to stabilize and with further policy measures to restart credit growth, I expect the economy to start recovering in the second half of the year,” Marios Maratheftis, regional head of Gulf research at Standard Chartered Plc, said in a statement today. Maratheftis forecast Dubai’s economy would expand by 0.5 percent this year. 

Real-estate prices in Dubai may decline a further 20 percent after falling 34 percent from their peak last year, EFG- Hermes Holding SAE, Egypt’s biggest publicly traded investment bank, said March 29. The drop follows a five-year boom when prices quadrupled, helped by new laws allowing foreigners to own property and a growing expatriate workforce. Falling property prices increased the risk of defaults on home loans. 

The government will “encourage consolidation” of Dubai’s real-estate companies, but will not force them to combine. 

Property companies 

Emaar Properties PJSC, which is building the world’s tallest tower in Dubai, Nakheel PJSC, which is developing palm tree-shaped islands off Dubai’s coast, Dubai Properties LLC, Tatweer Dubai LLC and Sama Dubai LLC, are some the state-backed developers that led Dubai’s construction drive. 

The U.A.E. and five other Gulf Arab states enjoyed an economic boom as oil prices surged and governments invested in real estate and industrial projects to diversify their economies. The six Gulf countries, including Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait, pump almost a quarter of the world’s crude oil. 

Dubai and its state-owned companies borrowed $80 billion to fund the emirate’s transformation into a regional financial and tourist hub. They need to repay $10 billion of loans in the remainder of this year, Standard & Poor’s said March 17. 

Abu Dhabi, Dubai’s neighbor and the U.A.E.’s capital, invested a combined 16 billion dirhams ($4.4 billion) in the emirate’s five banks in February to buffer losses. 

Al-Shaikh said Dubai’s Department of Economic Development is preparing a separate plan to support the emirate’s small and medium-size companies, which may include setting up a fund. 

To contact the reporter on this story: Arif Sharif in Dubai at [email protected]


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Mavekris said:


> I am not sure is this link was posted before
> 
> Scary stuff i must say
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-16611368.html



*UK distances itself from slanderous stories on Dubai *

Dubai: The British government has distanced itself from the slanderous stories carried by some British newspapers that target Dubai in relation to the effects of the global financial crisis.

British Foreign Office Spokesman John Wilkes described the criticism waged by the British press as "over exaggerated".

"Dubai is not the only place that is affected by the global recession. The whole world is suffering," Wilkes said in a press conference organised by the British Embassy and Dubai Press Club in Dubaion Tuesday 












Since he began work as a journalist, Johann has been attacked in print by the National Review, the Daily Telegraph, the Daily Mail, John Pilger, Daniel Craig, Peter Oborne, Private Eye, the Socialist Worker, Cristina Odone, Jon Gaunt, the Spectator, Andrew Neil, Mark Steyn, the British National Party, Medialens, al Muhajaroun and Richard Littlejohn.

'Prince' Turki Al-Faisal, the Saudi Ambassador to Britain, has accused Johann of "waging a private jihad against the House of Saud". 

Johann has been called 'Maoist' by Nick Cohen, 

"Stalinist" by Noam Chomsky, 

'Horrible Hari' by Niall Ferguson,

"*an uppity little queer*" by Bruce Anderson,

*'a drug addict' *by George Galloway, 

"*fat*" by the Dalai Lama and "a *c*nt*" by Busted.


----------



## Adel

High Times, when do you see a bottom of UK house prices? and when is the best time of the year to buy usually? Cos I'm thinking of buying end of this year. Sorry for off topic, but I don't have experience in UK property and I see people here who do. I appreciate an answer from anyone if not here then by PM. Thanks.


----------



## Wannaberich

I hope Dubai doesnt think it has to jump around everytime the british critcises them
and implement changes/improve things just to appease them.It doesnt want to become Britains 'bitch'.
However,on the other hand I dont think Dubai should just totally ignore Britain considering the amount of Brits potentially moving and holidaying in Dubai.
Although the question of dangerous sea water,prison for 'sex on the beach' etc may have an effect,I dont think most people would be influenced by the poor treatment of workers.


----------



## speculator

Wannaberich said:


> A slight exaggeration.Where do u live,Moss side Manchester?


LOL :lol:Actually Mosside is quite safe. 
I live in a comparatively peaceful city. We all know the UK is the crime capital of the world and thats not an exaggeration.

Most folk you talk to here would love to move abroad.


----------



## speculator

Dockside said:


> So what other country should take all those illegals ?
> Great, all the worlds scum converge in the UK for free hand-outs, how do fix this problem ??


hno:Sorry friend it was no illegals committing that crime. They were natives.


----------



## speculator

234sale said:


> that info was released yesterday anyway..
> http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=110766
> if you want to chat about uk house prices...
> 
> In 5 months the fsa is likely to regulate 3.5x salaries,, actual salaries and not liar loans.
> 
> 16 months ago, I had approved 10x my actual salary, 90%ltv... today the most I can get is 5x, on 70% ltv from RBS, UAE branch.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't see a bottom in uk house prices for at least 2 years.


I think the UK housing market will follow Japan. Its gonna be a decade or more.


----------



## Wannaberich

speculator said:


> LOL :lol:Actually Mosside is quite safe.
> I live in a comparatively peaceful city. We all know the UK is the crime capital of the world and thats not an exaggeration.
> 
> Most folk you talk to here would love to move abroad.


Mosside is quite safe
The UK is the crime capital of the world
Most folk would love to move abroad


Errr,wherever u live there's obviously alot of drugs floating around so maybe it isnt that safe after all.


----------



## enduser

speculator said:


> LOL :lol:Actually Mosside is quite safe.
> I live in a comparatively peaceful city. We all know the UK is the crime capital of the world and thats not an exaggeration.
> 
> Most folk you talk to here would love to move abroad.


Ditto. My feelings are similar.^^


----------



## speculator

Wannaberich said:


> Mosside is quite safe
> The UK is the crime capital of the world
> Most folk would love to move abroad
> 
> 
> Errr,wherever u live there's obviously alot of drugs floating around so maybe it isnt that safe after all.


Ouch !:lol:

You have got sharp nails ! 

All this from a guy who thinks a mortgage is not a debt and is still a WANT TO BE but will NEVER BE:cheers:


----------



## speculator

234sale said:


> that info was released yesterday anyway..
> http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=110766
> if you want to chat about uk house prices...
> 
> In 5 months the fsa is likely to regulate 3.5x salaries,, actual salaries and not liar loans.
> 
> 16 months ago, I had approved 10x my actual salary, 90%ltv... today the most I can get is 5x, on 70% ltv from RBS, UAE branch.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't see a bottom in uk house prices for at least 2 years.


Not only will lending criteria become more stringent but mortgages will have more regulation and in particular buy to let which isn't presently under the FSA umbrella.

It doesn't take much to figure out that UK house prices will continue to spiral downwards due to rising unemployment and downward pressure on wages and add to these tighter lending criteria and poor sentiment. Its only when these factors come into sync that we will see the bottom and then stabilty.

Added to this mortgage surveyors are consistently down valuing to counter in future falls. Im seeing perfectly sound property come back to market after a sold board. One of the reasons must be down value.

So yes 2 years is a possibility but I think much longer before any stabilisation and recovery. 

This doesnt bode well for UAE property as a lot of equity form UK real estate has gone to UAE property. Its OK saying well the UK investors are only a small percentage but then I cant see the other groups of nationalities coming in until to rescue till they see stabilisation either and then again im sure they are somewhat affected in their home countries also. Simply you guys have had too much speculation too much oversupply and very little transparency and professionalism in the real estate sector. 

So I cant see a bottom until the rest of the world recovers and until some trust comes back to the UAE real estate sector.

Id love for someone to constructively disagree and put some points forward on why the UAE real estate sector wont continue a downward spiral.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

How much for a 2 bed in marinascape now? Any cheaper than Mackie's buying price?


----------



## Monument

speculator said:


> I think the UK housing market will follow Japan. Its gonna be a decade or more.


One of the biggest differences is that Japan has a rapidly declining population and almost no immigration. Britain has a marginally increasing population and strong immigration. The increasing population needs a place to live.


----------



## Wannaberich

speculator said:


> Ouch !:lol:
> 
> You have got sharp nails !
> 
> All this from a guy who thinks a mortgage is not a debt and is still a WANT TO BE but will NEVER BE:cheers:


Maybe I started off as a Wannabe,but aint one anymore?am I supposed to change my name if thats so?Even when people know me,love me,respect me,treasure my opinion etc


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ 






:lol:

She stole Imre's teddy!


----------



## speculator

Monument said:


> One of the biggest differences is that Japan has a rapidly declining population and almost no immigration. Britain has a marginally increasing population and strong immigration. The increasing population needs a place to live.


I disagree.We did have increasing immigration and that has now declined mainly due to the economic situation. We are tending to attract the black economy immigrants, mostly, which tend to mainly live in low quality rented accommodation and shared. Generally the population is decreasing or in other words an we have an aging native population. The government talk about all the pent up demad for housing but yet we are seeing no end of to let properties vacant.


----------



## 234sale

^^ Japan Scenario? I tend to agree.

Whatever happens, we needed strict regulation to save the future. Not just a short term fix.

For a long time, UK investors and the majority of buyers knew that they could self-cert to any level with 10% deposit. I know people that did. It was the only way they could buy a property. Today they are saved for a while by lower interest rates, but they all have suffered at least a 30% drop in property prices.


----------



## AltinD

Sorry to disrupt, but it's perhaps the below some new Kamasutra position we have never heard of?



Imre said:


>


----------



## Bimcnorth

234sale said:


> ^^ Japan Scenario? I tend to agree.
> 
> Whatever happens, we needed strict regulation to save the future. Not just a short term fix.
> 
> For a long time, UK investors and the majority of buyers knew that they could self-cert to any level with 10% deposit. I know people that did. It was the only way they could buy a property. Today they are saved for a while by lower interest rates, but they all have suffered at least a 30% drop in property prices.


As long as the buyers serve the debt the value of the property is rather irrelevant surely?

In my experience of financial downturns (and I´ve seen a few) what happens when the value sinks below puchase price is that earlier buyers mostly stay put..i.e the number of sells is just a fraction of earlier.

Unless you got cash stashed away of course, then it´s time to bargain hunt..:banana:


----------



## speculator

AltinD said:


> Sorry to disrupt, but it's perhaps the below some new Kamasutra position we have never heard of?



I figured it out. She's doing sit ups and he's doing press ups. Honestly. 
Ive tried it but it never works for me. :nocrook:


----------



## IISinbadII

To Moderators. 

Can we post a poll thread regarding the date of real estate recovery?
Something like Recovery is expected in Late 2009, Early 1010, Late 2010, Early 1011, Late 2011 and so on.

Thanks.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

A retalitation to the war on Dubai by the British press.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...ad-just-look-at-your-own-country-1666748.html

If you think Dubai is bad, just look at your own country



> Say that I’d written that in first world Britain there are 380,00 homeless
> 
> I recently figured that if British journalists such as Johann Hari (Tuesday, 7 April) who come to Dubai don't send back something sensationalist it won't get printed and they won't get paid. After all, sleaze sells.
> 
> 
> I called a British journalist friend of mine and said: "I'm going to write an article about London, the same way your compatriots write about Dubai." By the time I was back at home I had come to my senses, it's not fair to London, a city so dear to my heart, or Londoners to be judged by the actions of a few. It's easy to generalise about a country when figures are manipulated to sensationalise and sell papers.
> 
> Say for example that I had written an article that states that, in wealthy first world Britain there are 380,000 homeless people, many of them mentally ill, starving and abandoned in sub-zero temperatures to live on the streets.
> 
> Say then that I wrote an article that states that Britain, the so called "jail capital of Western Europe" sentenced in 2006 alone a staggering additional 12,000 women to prison and that up to seven babies a month are born in jail where they spend their crucial first months.
> 
> I could have written an article that stated Britain, victor in the Second World War, had given refuge to 400 Nazi war criminals, with all but one of them getting away with it. Or one stating that the number of Indians who died while serving the British Empire, to build your Tube and grow your tea, is so large it is simply unquantifiable by any historian.
> 
> Or say I write an article about the 2.5 million-strong Indian volunteer army who served Britain during the Second World War, where 87,000 of them died for their occupiers' freedom and yet until recently those who survived continued to be discriminated against in pay and pension.
> 
> I could have written an article that stated that, in civilised Britain, one in every 23 teenage girls had an abortion and in 2006 more than 17,000 of the 194,000 abortions carried out in England and Wales involved girls below the age of 18.
> 
> I could have written an article stating that Britain, the human rights champion, not wanting to get its hands dirty, had resorted to secretly outsourcing torture to Third World states under the guise of rendition by allowing up to 170 so called CIA torture flights to use its bases. Or that Britain's MI5 unlawfully shared with the CIA secret material to interrogate suspects and "facilitate interviews" including cases where the suspects were later proven to be innocent.
> 
> I could have written an article that stated that the Britain of family values is the only country in the EU that recruits child soldiers as young as 16 into its Army and ships them off battlegrounds in Iraq and Afghanistan, putting it in the same league as African dictatorships and Burma.
> 
> I could have written an article that states that Britain either recently did or has yet to sign the Council of Europe Convention on Action against Trafficking in Human Beings, the United Nations Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict or the UN's International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families .
> 
> I could have highlighted the fact that liberal Britain is responsible for the physical and racial abuse of hundreds of failed asylum-seekers at the hands of private security guards during their forced removal from the country .
> 
> I could have written about the countless cases of slave-like working conditions of immigrant labours such as the 23 Chinese workers who lost their lives in 2004 as they harvested cockles in the dangerous rising tides in Morecambe Bay.
> 
> I could have written about how mortality rates from liver diseases due to alcohol abuse have declined in Europe in recent decades but in Britain the rate trebled in the same period reflecting deep societal failures.
> 
> I could have written about how in "Big Brother" Britain maltreatment of minors is so serious that one in 10, or an estimated one million children a year, suffer physical, sexual, emotional abuse or neglect.
> 
> Or that according to Oxfam 13.2 million people in the UK live in poverty – a staggering 20 per cent of the population in the sixth richest nation in the world.
> 
> I could have written all that, but out of respect for Britain, I decided not to. Because when you stitch together a collection of unconnected facts taken out of context, you end up with a distorted and inaccurate picture: something that Britain's Dubai-bashers would do well to learn.


----------



## Mistermark

While I'm as conscious of the weaknesses of the UK as anyone, I don't think this article is entirely fair. For instance, the lame-brains currently running the country define poverty in relative terms, a figure that Oxfam has picked up on, which means it's all but impossible to eliminate or even reduce - so it's unfair to use the statistic they've produced as evidence that poverty is widespread in the UK. Similarly, the 1 in 10 figure for child abuse is one that wouldn't withstand much critical evaluation.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ or maybe he could have written about the underground slaves in Britain

"internal trafficking" has now emerged as an issue, where UK citizens are shipped around the country to work as domestic slaves or to work in prostitution

4,000 people were trafficked into the country for cheap labour, sexual exploitation and benefits

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/500-price-of-sex-slave.5147581.jp

The point is, when you stitch together a collection of unconnected facts taken out of context, you end up with a distorted and inaccurate picture.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aKmoxoNEibuM

Dubai shares rose for the first time in four days as government stimulus packages spurred gains in emerging markets worldwide while the emirate’s chief financial official said the “bad days are over” for the economy. 

Emaar Properties PJSC, the United Arab Emirates’ biggest real-estate developer, added 3.8 percent, its second gain this week. National Central Cooling Co., known as Tabreed, surged 9 percent, gaining for the first time in three days. Dubai has begun disbursing a $10 billion fund it raised to battle the impact of the crisis, said Nasser Bin Hassan al-Shaikh, director general of Dubai’s Department of Finance. 

The Dubai Financial Market General Index added 1.9 percent to 1,617.57, bringing the gain for the week to 2.2 percent. Abu Dhabi’s index rose 1 percent. Qatar’s DSM 20 climbed 0.7 percent, led by Qatar National Bank, which said first-quarter profit increased. 

“*We’re seeing quite a bit of confidence coming back into the markets*,” said Ahmad Shahin, equity strategist at Shuaa Capital PSC in Dubai. “Volatility has dropped.” 

Emerging-market stocks and bonds rose, heading for the longest rally for developing nations in a year, as energy shares climbed on higher oil prices and speculation mounted government aid will revive economic growth. The MSCI Emerging Markets Index surged as much as 2.6 percent and crude oil rose for a second day, climbing as high as $51.46 a barrel. 

*Recovery *

*“The bad days are over” for Dubai’s economy, which is stabilizing and will gradually recover*, al-Shaikh said. Economic growth in Dubai, the second-biggest of seven states that make up the U.A.E., slumped after the worst financial crisis since the 1930s hurt its property, financial services and tourism industries. The emirate’s economy may contract between 2 percent and 4 percent this year, Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services said March 17. 

Emaar increased to 2.48 dirhams. Tabreed gained to 73 fils. The air-conditioning company named Stephen John Ridlington as chief financial officer. 

Qatar National Bank added 2.8 percent to 104.9 riyals. The country’s biggest bank said first-quarter net income advanced 10 percent to 1.01 billion riyals ($278 million), beating the 920 million-riyal estimate of EFG-Hermes Holding SAE. 

Kuwait’s measure rose 0.3 percent, Oman’s index gained less than 0.1 percent, while the Bahrain All Share Index lost 0.3 percent. Saudi Arabia’s bourse is closed for the local weekend.


----------



## Pleth

speculator said:


> ^^^^
> Honestly the west is jealous. The west has failed and is declining fast so out of frustration why not give the east a bashing. Dubai is an easy target as its well known.


Exactly. They are trying to move focus that Europe is hit a lot harder by the recession than Dubai is.
I have just had visitors from Denmark here to Dubai and they have never seen so busy building sites anywhere before, and this is under a so called recession! They are still building here in 3 shifts and 24/7, why don't they slow down to one normal shift? 

The roads here are still being extended all time. I do not know any other country in the world that extends the roads as fast as Dubai. If there are traffic jams, you will find that 3 months later the 2 lane road has been changed to 5 lanes. In Denmark and Britain they increase the road tax and other taxes to stop people buying cars or to keep them out of London, - so they don't have to extend the roads.
I love driving in Dubai, - every day there are new and better roads. It is a shame that Sharjah cannot follow up.

As goes for the programme on BBC1 about the workers in Dubai. We have to remember that:

BBC has always had an issue about this liberal place.
The workers are all here of their own free will. If they want to leave, they can go on strike, and they will be deported.
The unclean accomodation they live in, were all clean when they moved in, for some reason not many of them like to clean and keep it tidy. (I have learned this of experience).
The BBC should perhaps make some TV programmes of how the Polish workers in London are being exploited, they live in horrible accomodation, they spend 1½ hour to go to work each way and they get paid very badly plus they have to spend half of their wages on transport. :bash:


----------



## noir-dresses

How's it going Steve, how are things in Dubai ?

by the way you forgot to mention that the royal family owns most of the slum housing that is rented in London, some of there pot smoking grand children are racist, and to this day stolen artifacts, and jewelry have never been returned to there rite full owners.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Mandelson slams 'doom laden' UK press*

*The UK's business secretary Peter Mandelson on Wednesday night criticised "doom laden" reports about Dubai in the UK press during a speech in the emirate.*

*"I have little time or patience for the rather doom laden judgments that some wish to make about Dubai," he said.*

*Dubai had one of the best business environments in the region, thanks to its openness, transparency and dependable legal system, added Mandelson.*

There were improvements that could be made to its legal system, as was the case in the UK, he said during a speech to the British Business Group.

"Inevitably Dubai has to see where it can reform, where it can improve and make it an even better place to do business in the future."

The UK had a very good position in the UAE economy but faced growing competition from other countries, he said.

In response, every UK business in the UAE had to "sharpen up its act".

He said the UK government was firmly behind UK business in the country and he did not mind raising issues on their behalf to the UAE government.

He said he was reassured by the UAE government that fresh liquidity would be pushed through the supply chain to enable UK contractors to know with clarity and certainty that outstanding bills would be met.

The UK is the biggest provider of foreign direct investment to the UAE, according to the latest figures. A total of 45 percent of UK exports to the region were to the UAE.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The UK government does not share the pessimistic and rather vitriolic view of Dubai that appeared in some sections of the British press in the wake of the global financial crisis, said John Wilkes, an official spokesperson for the UK government in a press conference at Dubai Press Club. He added that the financial crisis is a global one and that the international community is together in the efforts to fight it. 

Wilkes was speaking to the media on the ongoing visit to the region by Peter Mendelson, the British Secretary of State for Business, accompanied by a large delegation consisting of top government officials and business leaders. The high level British delegation reached Abu Dhabi before their Dubai visit. 

“Great Britain considers the business and other relations with the GCC countries as exceptionally important, particularly in light of the current financial crisis. Dubai and the gulf region are better equipped to deal with the crisis than many other parts of the world on account of the region’s enormous financial and natural resources. The UAE is the third largest market in the GCC for British businesses,” Wilks said. 

Speaking on the visit of the delegation to Iraq, the British spokesperson said the security situation in Iraq had undergone a sea change, despite occasional spurt of violence. 

“The UK government is committed to taking advantage of the business opportunities currently available in Iraq. The Iraqi government is now equal to the task of ensuring security for businesses and the workforce. The situation has improved so much so that the British foreign secretary was recently able to walk around the streets in Basra and interact with ordinary people. He was given protection not by the British forces or Americans, but the Iraqi authorities,” he pointed out. 

Answering questions on the G-20 summit and the issue of restructuring global financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund, Wilks stressed that the UK stood by the demands for the restructuring and reform of these institutions by incorporating the concerns of the developing world and ensuring a greater say for them, particularly for countries such as China, India and Brazil. “Our position on this issue is very clear. We feel the time has come for appropriate measures to make sure that global financial institutions are run in a way that reflects the changed realities of the world,” he added.


----------



## Bimcnorth

Suddenly, the UK government notice that half their exports to the region is to a country being slagged in UK media on an almost daily basis..

It got absolutely nothing to do with the french and germans courting UAE lately, and the fact that both countries are set to be awarded big contracts soon...:lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

HOLIDAYMAKERS appear to have shrugged off the recession for Easter, with Scotland's main airports expecting to handle more than 200,000 passengers over the weekend.

The most popular international destinations include Amsterdam, Paris, Dublin, New York, Geneva and Dubai.

The Glasgow-Dubai route, which BAA described yesterday as the "jewel in the crown of Scottish air travel", celebrates its fifth anniversary today after carrying nearly one million passengers.

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Credit-crunch-forgotten-as-236000.5161041.jp


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## jaan

Does any one have any latest information on Elite 6 or any one could guide me to website forum. Sorry first time on this site .


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## 234sale

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=614131
ELITE6


----------



## Imre

Press release 
For immediate release 

11 April 2009


*Expert calls for coordinated package of measures to kick-start UAE property market*

Government agencies, property developers, banks, insurance companies and brokers need to agree on a combined solution to support sustainable sales drive 

A UAE-based real estate expert has called on industry professionals including government agencies such as RERA to help create a coordinated package of measures to kick-start the UAE property market. 

According to Mohammed Nimer, CEO of mid market property development company MAG Group Properties which is involved in AED3 billion worth of projects in the UAE, developers, government agencies, investors, banks, insurance companies and even brokers, are all working to their own agendas to try to get property sales moving again.

“Each interest group is having a modicum of success, but it would be far more effective if all interested sectors worked together. From investment and development right through to the hand over, we could manage the entire spectrum of the property cycle and speak with one voice.”

Nimer, welcomed recent moves such as HSBC bank raising its loan-to-value (LTV) ratio to 75% and the decision by other banks and developers to tailor repayment packages for buyers experiencing financial difficulties. However these isolated acts, although extremely positive, are what Nimer is highlighting. 

“In isolation these unilateral measures by individual organisations will have limited effect. For example, if a buyer can’t manage a 25% deposit the sale falls through. Easy payment terms are good news for existing investors, but they don’t address new sales,” explained Nimer. 

He also pointed out that more developers and investment groups are taking the rent-to-buy route to keeping the house sale option open to those that might otherwise lack the confidence to commit to home ownership at the moment.

And he praised Dubai Government’s moves to guarantee job security for all government employees and to extend the work visa expiry period so that redundant expats have more time to try and find work.

“These initiatives all contribute positively in some way to encouraging property sales, but if all these effort could be coordinated and put into one package, the effect could be much more effective,” he said.

The insurance sector, too, could play their part by initiating redundancy/mortgage protection policies and by doing so help allay fears of being unable to sustain mortgage repayments should investors lose their job. 

Nimer also admitted that although it may be considered too high a risk by the industry to offer such cover especially in challenging economic times, there were still many sectors where the prospects of ongoing employment were sound.

“Government workers, doctors, teachers, as well as several other areas in the public and private sectors including facilities management, legal firms, oil & gas, power generation, infrastructure projects, IT and the retail food sector, while by no means recession proof, should weather the economic downturn in tact.

“Just recently, for example, Dubai Internet City reported a 25% increase last quarter in the number of companies joining its [email protected] Business Centre, an initiative for SMEs to ‘test’ the market before contracting permanent office space.” 

There is still growth out there and I think business leaders and the UAE government can play a key role by urging banks to grant mortgages to people working in these relatively secure job sectors.”

“In summary government regulation, rent-to-buy, redundancy insurance, higher LTV ratios, relaxed lending criteria, extensions to cancelled work visas and above all total transparency will breathe confidence back into the UAE real estate sector,” concluded Nimer.


----------



## speculator

Anyone with UAE mortgage/home financing experience can you confirm the lending criteria. In particular can someone confirm:

1 Lending multiple to salary

2 Average professional Dubai salary

3 Maximum loan to value


----------



## 9714

^^ it varies

1) when i applied amlak told me that my installments should not exceed 55% of my salary
2) between 30k and 50k, i would guess.
3) max is 85% these days (adcb i think - Also check the new abu dhabi finance mortgage lender (www.adf.ae). its getting better all the time but some are still around the 40-50% mark.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Average professional salary is 30 to 50? :laugh:

It cannot be more than 15k :nuts:


----------



## 234sale

Usual way is around 50-60% of your actual salary,

So to borrow 2,000,000AED at 8%, repayment over 25 years including all insurances you would have to earn around 30,000 AED

So you would have to earn 400,000 AED year so this would be a max of 5x salary.

Average Proffesional Salary was around 35,000AED Month, But I think it has reduced to 25,000AED Month
Going off what manpower middle east tells me.

http://www.payscale.com/research/AE/City=Dubai/Salary
Many different ways to look at data on this website.

Mortgage, Source UAE Money


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

My team members (Indian/Filipino) average about 9-14K monthly. Their titles range from associate buyers (trainees) to senior buyers (leads)... But I know of some that make 20-22K monthly... One month vacation, annual ticket home and sick days included... 

American/European expats make quite a bit more....


----------



## legal eagle

*rates, ranges, etc*



Old Town Lovin... said:


> My team members (Indian/Filipino) average about 9-14K monthly. Their titles range from associate buyers (trainees) to senior buyers (leads)... But I know of some that make 20-22K monthly... One month vacation, annual ticket home and sick days included...
> 
> American/European expats make quite a bit more....




Rates need to come down to add momentum to the market, but nice to know that this option is still available to Dubai (rest of world done this already).

My mortgage here effectively costs me 10.5%* Pa from NBD- it does incl- capital rpmnts & insurances etc.

Based on the idea that the majority amount of buyers are on salaries of 15,000-30,000 dirhams per month -you can see that a range of say Dhms 900,000 to Dhms 1,800,000* is where the majority of properties will be traded.

This range will be where there is most competition for properties and where your asset will be most liquid and easily sellable.

The bulk of new build ought to sit in this range, and as interest rates come down from the 10.5% level to say 5.25% the mortgage market will start to push the most liquid range for properties in dubai into the 2-4mill dhm range.

Once we are in this new range we my start to see the most fiercely competed for properties move to the high 3's or 4's (mill dirhams) but I don't see the days of 7-15 mill villas in secondary areas coming back to market.

The buyer is not there its as simple as that hno:


----------



## mrobbie

When I returned to UAE after being in UK for Xmas the flight back was almost empty, and Dubai terminal 3 was the same - no queues at passport control ets.

Flew back into T3 again last week on a flight from Glasgow, which was almost full, to find enormous queues in passport control. My parents flew in through T1 and said it was much busier than when they were here last October.

Positive to see this, as much of it would be tourism as its the UK easter holidays, however it was not just UK flights that had arrived in T3 when we were there - good mix of nationalities.


----------



## Bimcnorth

smussuw said:


> ^^ Average professional salary is 30 to 50? :laugh:
> 
> It cannot be more than 15k :nuts:



It´s actually between AED 15-35.000 depending on nationality according to official stats.

Emirates are in the top followed by westerners, then come non-UAE arabs working in UAE, the pakistanis, filipinos etc are dragged down by a huge number of very low paid people.


----------



## Bimcnorth

234sale said:


> Usual way is around 50-60% of your actual salary,
> 
> So to borrow 2,000,000AED at 8%, repayment over 25 years including all insurances you would have to earn around 30,000 AED
> 
> So you would have to earn 400,000 AED year so this would be a max of 5x salary.
> 
> Average Proffesional Salary was around 35,000AED Month, But I think it has reduced to 25,000AED Month
> Going off what manpower middle east tells me.
> 
> http://www.payscale.com/research/AE/City=Dubai/Salary
> Many different ways to look at data on this website.
> 
> Mortgage, Source UAE Money



That list is a bit old?, I know that Barclays got 75% mortgages available nowadays.


----------



## smussuw

Bimcnorth said:


> It´s actually between AED 15-35.000 depending on nationality according to official stats.
> 
> Emirates are in the top followed by westerners, then come non-UAE arabs working in UAE, the pakistanis, filipinos etc are dragged down by a huge number of very low paid people.


I agree which is why I think even 15k is high for an average !


----------



## Philippa C

"The UAE mortgage market is stabilising as loan-to-value ratios (LTVs) settle in the 70 to 85 per cent range, say banking experts."

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...4122009_798aa7c9c9354bdcad69b934609fc578.aspx

My friend who works for a reputable re agency says things are picking up. She's busier now than she has been in ages and she's putting it down to the banks lending again and lower prices. 

Someone posted a diagram on here some time ago showing the stages in recession; one of the phases was shock/denial followed by acceptance (or some such jargon) which they said was the precursor to recovery. I think we are in the acceptance phase now as sellers realise that they have to accept lower prices and buyers, who were priced out, before see the possibility of owning a home. At least we are seeing some activity which is great.


----------



## speculator

Some valid points. So it would be reasonable to assume average western salary 20k pm which based on a 4times salary multiple ( which I think is high ) means borrowing around 1 mill and adding on top 25%. So looking at the market prices the average prices still seem to be high. What I am assuming to be around average say a JBR 2 bed or 2 bed springs around 1.1 ish. 

Ive based it on 4 times salary and a fairly good salary these days. So I think the average price still needs to come down. I think 800k for an average 2 bed should be the right price. But then it all depends on supply vs demand and the supply seems to be in abundance.

Just my basic maths. Anyone agree to differ.


----------



## Mistermark

Philippa C said:


> "The UAE mortgage market is stabilising as loan-to-value ratios (LTVs) settle in the 70 to 85 per cent range, say banking experts."
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...4122009_798aa7c9c9354bdcad69b934609fc578.aspx
> 
> My friend who works for a reputable re agency says things are picking up. She's busier now than she has been in ages and she's putting it down to the banks lending again and lower prices.
> 
> Someone posted a diagram on here some time ago showing the stages in recession; one of the phases was shock/denial followed by acceptance (or some such jargon) which they said was the precursor to recovery. I think we are in the acceptance phase now as sellers realise that they have to accept lower prices and buyers, who were priced out, before see the possibility of owning a home. At least we are seeing some activity which is great.


I think this is true actually. I'm in Dubai right now and can say the market is definitely not dead - people are enquiring about properties, and properties are selling. There are still some units priced at fantasy rates that don't stand a chance of selling, but transactions are happening if the price is right.

That said I think it's too soon to call the bottom of the market. There will be another exodus when the schools finish and there may be some distressed sales from people who bought on mortgages at the top of the market and find that today's lower rental yields no longer cover their loan repayments.

Ramadan is in September this year, I believe. It's my guess that's when the market will bottom out. After that, we'll see some degree of uplift to world economies from the various stimulus measures and my guess is the Dollar, and hence Dirham, will have dropped in value, making it easier for those outside Dubai to buy again.


----------



## Philippa C

We know someone who's very senior in a major relocation company. Apparently, while there are people leaving, there are lots arriving, to take up different types of positions. It seems that in the aftermath of a financial crisis, there's more vacancies for lawyers, accountants etc to "clean up". I agree the real test will be the end of the school year in June as a lot of people will try to hold out till then. 

In newspaper today it says the dollar is already starting to weaken as the Fed has printed so much extra cash.


----------



## aviduser

The comments above about 4x wages = 800k Average price for two beds is spot on. And the comments about property in that range being the most liquid rings true to an extent. 

I think the major problem now is that now prices are falling there is no inventive to buy. That' clear now. The problem is the future, after prices have found the bottom (I think most of us, with heavy heart, expect prices to return back to prices seen at the "launch" of Dubai). 

Once this bottom is found it's not likely they will rebound quickly. This will put people off buying, Why ? In the past we all thought we could use our housing allowances to buy a house instead of pay rent, we also saw the prices rising so knew that when our contract ended or we decided to leave we could sell at a profit. 

Without the profit motive why bother with the hassle the law changes and all the rest. 

Depressing


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> ^^ again, if it wasn't him, Dubai wouldn't turn into what it is right now


One huge mess.Agreed.


----------



## HappyLarry

^^
Total respect to His Highness for being extraordinarily candid and patient in giving detailed answers to a lot of prickly questions.

I know it will do little to assuage biased Western media. At least he is totally honest about it and let others judge.


----------



## Wannaberich

^^
I dont know which interviews you are referring to but I would think if he has been candid it may be more to the fact he has no choice.
Dubai is a tiny place and if Britain for example criticises it rightly or wrongly,then he has to take note.
Given the fact Dubai is relying on large tourist numbers and people moving to and investing there,it really is a big PR job for the goverment.
Dubai is also relying on the same amount if not more of foreign money to invest into all of the upcoming projects.Waterfront and Arabian Canal for example will need for huge numbers of people to invest their money.
That seems unlikely even when the economies recover which is why those two projects for example may need to be scaled right down.
The goverment will need to convince people Dubai is still a great place to invest in.Against all of the negative publicity which is not justing coming out of Britain that will be hard to do.


----------



## Opus 2009

smussuw said:


> ^^ uaepm.com speculator


^^
If the construction is proceeding, then it is fairly clear that the developer keeps all/40% or 25 % of the purchase price in case of default depending on if construction is 80%/60% or less than 60% complete.

Where construction has not started, AND, it isn't because of the developer's omission or negligence (eg such as delayed handover of the plot by master developer etc) - then refund is 70% of the amounts paid.

HOWEVER what about situations where there is no construction at all on the site, and there are no extenuating circumstances in favour of the developer? If the purchaser were to default then as per the law (unless Rera forces the developers hand in cancelling the project) the refund will be calculated after deducting 25% of the purchase price. This is patently unfair.


----------



## tehsin123

Not sure if I can interpret all responses correctly, compared to real situation. Fore example, in response to one question he says 
"Actually, we don’t pay attention to rumors and our response always comes in actions rather than words. As a matter of fact, Dubai visitors these days are surprised by these rumors and I’ve met with many of them recently and they expressed their amazement at Dubai’s traffic jams, overbooked hotels and crowded markets."

Now everyone and their dog knows that traffic is lightened, hotels are bleeding with low occupancy rates and shopping malls are speaking loudly about low sales. So what does it mean.


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai law pins down property defaulters*

Sunday, April 19, 2009
Dubai law pins down property defaulters - If the developer has not been able to start construction “without any negligence or omission on the developer’s part”, the developer may keep 30 per cent of the money paid by the buyer to that point source The National
The Dubai Land Department is planning to issue an amended property law that will determine refunds for investors who default on their payments based on construction progress of the project, according to lawyers briefed on the matter.The move will bring clarity to the property market in Dubai, where a credit squeeze and the effects of the global financial crisis have led to defaults by home buyers. But some investors have criticised the amendment for being too heavily in favour of developers.Lawyers say the amendment to article 11 of Dubai Law 13 of 2008 will stipulate that in cases where a buyer defaults and the developer has constructed at least 80 per cent of the project, the buyer loses all money paid to that point. The home can then be auctioned to compensate the developer for the rest of the cost.
If a developer has completed at least 60 per cent of the project and the buyer defaults, the developer is entitled to keep 40 per cent of the purchase price.But if a developer has completed less than 60 per cent of the project, it can only keep 25 per cent of the purchase price.
If the developer has not been able to start construction “without any negligence or omission on the developer’s part”, the developer may keep 30 per cent of the money paid by the buyer to that point.
Developers would have to refund any money due to the purchaser within one year, or within 60 days of the resale of the home.A legal briefing from the law firm Clyde & Co said the amendment “provides much anticipated clarification regarding the procedures required to be followed by developers in respect of defaulting purchasers, as well as the rights of developers to retain purchaser monies upon cancellation”.The original law specified that if a buyer defaulted on payments to the developer, the buyer would be able to recover 70 per cent of any money they had turned over to that point.But when the property market started to face difficulties last autumn, the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) issued an interpretation of the law that said the developer could retain 30 per cent of the total price of the property. In some cases, this meant the developer could keep all payments a buyer had made to them.
Officials from RERA later admitted that the interpretation was an emergency measure intended to prevent a wave of defaults that would cripple the property sector.
The new amendment, called Dubai Law No. 9 of 2009, will not only provide more specific terms but be retroactive for all property contracts signed in Dubai. If a contract between a buyer and a developer has a contrary clause, it will be rendered void, according to the Clyde & Co briefing.
Emad Eldin Farouq, a senior legal counsel with the Dubai Land Department, told a panel last week that the amendment had been signed into law and would soon be published in the official gazette of Dubai, according to an article in Xpress, which first reported the story. The amendment would “maintain the confidence of investors and safeguard the real estate of Dubai”, Mr Farouq said, according to Xpress.But some investors said the amendment did not go far enough in protecting investors from developers who had delayed construction indefinitely. 
“It is taking away our rights from the way the law was originally written,” said Nigel Knight, a homebuyer and member of the Dubai Property Investors Group.The investors’ group handed the Land Department a petition last week asking for a meeting to discuss concerns it has with the amendment.

A Dubai Land Department spokesman could not be reached yesterday.:cheers:


----------



## sidxb

tehsin123 said:


> Now everyone and their dog knows that traffic is lightened, hotels are bleeding with low occupancy rates and shopping malls are speaking loudly about low sales. So what does it mean.


You know in media stories circle a lot. A lazy reporter of magazine A copies article or lines of lazy reporter in newspaper B who copied lines from a news report of journalist C in mid 2008 when traffic was bad , there was mad rush at malls and no hotel rooms found around. The cycle can go on and long from A-Z and further Aa - Zz

I tried to google but did not find the article I read last week of US paper mentioning back breaking ( or maybe it was neck breaking ) traffic jams of Dubai.


----------



## daman139

hahahha


----------



## smussuw

Sheikh Mohammad said that a new visa for long and multiple visit will come out soon. He stressed that companies have no right issuing visas and that there is no such thing called permanent visas.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Does the UAE have something like the green card for 'permanent' visitors? These are difficult to get but possible. For others a long visit visa or work visa could be enough.



> A United States Permanent Resident Card, also known as a green card, is an identification card attesting to the permanent resident status of an alien in the United States of America. Green card also refers to an immigration process of becoming a permanent resident. The green card serves as proof that its holder, a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR), has been officially granted immigration benefits, which include permission to reside and take employment in the USA. The holder must maintain permanent resident status, and can be removed from the US if certain conditions of this status are not met


----------



## Dubai_Steve

and what about a green card lottery for diversification purposes.



> Each year, around 50,000 immigrant visas are made available through the Diversity Visa (DV) program, also known as the Green Card Lottery to people who were born in countries with low rates of immigration to the United States (fewer than 50,000 immigrants in the past five years). Applicants can only qualify by country of birth, not by citizenship. Anyone who is selected under this lottery will be given the opportunity to apply for permanent residence. They can also file for their spouse and any unmarried children under the age of 21.
> 
> If permanent residence is granted, the winner (and his/her family, if applicable) receives an immigrant visa in their passport(s) that has to be "activated" within six months of issuance at any port of entry to the United States. The new immigrant receives a stamp on the visa as proof of lawful admittance to the United States, and the individual is now authorized to live and work permanently in the United States. Finally, the actual "green card" typically arrives by mail within a few months.


----------



## agod

smussuw said:


> Sheikh Mohammad said that a new visa for long and multiple visit will come out soon. He stressed that companies have no right issuing visas and that there is no such thing called permanent visas.



The wording on all my contracts says the same thing, that the developer will help you with sponsorship to obtain your visa, according to the laws of the government at the time.

I know of people who came last year, and got there 3 year visa through property ownership, this year Emaar and I beleive the other Government property companies are still doing it, if you happen to own anything else, from other companies you will not get it.

so with all respect to his highness who is going to rent or buy all these properties that are being built? the population of the locals wont, so it must be foriegners, of which he has stated he want's to attract, the analogy that London, Paris, etc, etc, dont give property related visas is wrong, they are capital cities of large countries, that dont need to, Dubai as a small city does, it will be a ghost town of empty apartments, but if they are sensible and come out with a decent visa for the property owners that do want to live here, and they can be vetted first, for suitability. 

When I walk around Dubai most of the people are young, they all probably have families back home somewhere, and will return one day, there is a lack of "Baby Boomers" in this town, yet this group of very wealthy individuals is ignored, they are the ones that own properties abroad, often there parents are no longer alive, so have inherited from them, they have life savings, and they in there 50's and 60' are liver longer than ever, they have worked all there lives and now want to retire and spend there money, other countries reconise this, Malaya, Panama, and some carribbean islands, regard property ownership as a means of a visa.

DubaiSteve

The green card in America is actually Orange, and the visa's there are more or less designed as non-immigrant type, I can tell you stories of hard working Brits, that have bean bounced out after many years in the US because how hard it is to obtain, even with money, when my friends Mexican cleaner has one and they after 7 years are still trying, it's a long story, and the lottery, is not for UK nationals, as they reckon the UK is a good enough place, why would you want to leave.

Alan


----------



## Wannaberich

agod said:


> so with all respect to his highness who is going to rent or buy all these properties that are being built? the population of the locals wont, so it must be foriegners, of which he has stated he want's to attract,


Correction.He wants to attract their money but not them.Hence no visas.
Parts of Dubai are already a ghost town so I read,maybe when the whole of it is he may then see sense and start issuing visas.One day.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Which part is a ghost town? I'll do some shopping there :banana:


----------



## Wannaberich

U can start with JBR and the marina.Many empty units.Have fun.


----------



## smussuw

but the place is still busy as hell .......


----------



## Opus 2009

^^ These areas are still busy but considerably quieter than last year. In December you couldn't get an outside table at the cafe's on JBR drive, but last week I had no trouble at all.

The city is generally quieter and much much nicer this way. But it has obvious implications for many of us who own property here.


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> but the place is still busy as hell .......


U say its busy,others say its quiet.Who to believe.
As for the units,u think the're all full?


----------



## smussuw

^^ I don't know if it is empty or full, all I can say is that the place is no where a ghost town as u were implying



Opus 2009 said:


> ^^ These areas are still busy but considerably quieter than last year. In December you couldn't get an outside table at the cafe's on JBR drive, but last week I had no trouble at all.
> 
> The city is generally quieter and much much nicer this way. But it has obvious implications for many of us who own property here.


maybe because the weather is getting warm? I certainly don't such a big difference between now and before :dunno:


----------



## paul66

*U.A.E. Says $50 Oil Will Help Economy Recover Fast*

April 20 (Bloomberg)...

Crude prices around $50 a barrel will help the economy recover while supporting investment, the oil minister of the United Arab Emirates said today. 

A price of “$50 provides support for the global economy while sustaining investment,” Mohamed al-Hamli said in Dubai. “Maintaining crude prices at reasonable levels is vital.” 

The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, supplier of about 40 percent of the world’s oil, has seen prices drop by almost $100 a barrel from their July peak of $147.27 as the worst economic crisis since the 1930s cuts fuel demand. 

The group agreed at three meetings last year to cut output by 4.2 million barrels a day, a 14 percent reduction to 24.845 million, in an attempt to stem the slide in prices. After agreeing to hold quotas steady last month, OPEC will meet again on May 28 to review the market. 

“We’ve seen oil stocks rise from 52 days to 59 days” of forward cover, the minister said, declining to comment on whether the group will lower production further next month. 

Separately, Algeria’s oil minister called on OPEC to cut oil production in May to boost prices, El Moudjahid reported. 

“In my view we would be taking a big risk if we don’t readjust supply,” Chakib Khelil, who held the group’s rotating presidency in 2008, was quoted as saying. “It would be better, given the circumstances, not to take such risks.” 

Source from Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601072&sid=a2oZgRdG9DEc&refer=energy


----------



## googly

High Times said:


> ...The currency issue is irrelevant as 95% of house purchasers in the UK are UK domiciled, where as 95% of property purchasers in Dubai are foreign currency domiciled making a strong Dollar/Dirham a diss-incentive to invest. Your clutching at straws to make your argument here I’m afraid...


Look, I am not disagreeing with you about the problems Dubai faces. Surely, Dubai needs to make changes to its laws to make it investor friendly. For example, there should be a bankcruptcy law that protests people if they default, rather than sending them to jail for a bounced check. AND people shouldnt be forced to leave the country once they lose their jobs. ETC ETC. 

The point about currency was that if you compare pound investment in UK with pound investment in Dubai (or dollars with dollars), you will see that in both places you have lost more or less the same amount. Plus not all investors in Dubai are UK based. So, from a pure investment point of view, the losses are more or less equal. 

Now the question is whether your investment in UK will recover faster than your investment in Dubai? You seem to think that your UK investment is safe whereas your DUbai investment is a total loss. Time will tell what will happen but I think that Dubai with its ZERO tax laws is inherently more attractive than the UK because (especially for high income earners) people dont want to pay one-third of their hard earned income to the govt. Once Dubai makes changes to its laws, you will see people throng back to Dubai. 

Take it easy dude and get out of Gitmo!:lol:


----------



## googly

Wannaberich said:


> ...Previously,buying property in Dubai to rent out was a big plus.High rents,1 cheque.Now rents have come right down and people are paying with multiple cheques.
> 
> As for no income tax in Dubai.Thats right,no tax,no free health care or free schools(for most?)No child benefit payments,no unemployment benefit plus all those other benefits.If u lose your job then tough.Go home.
> Of course Dubai does have a benefit system I guess,mainly enjoyed by emiratis.


Regarding rental income, it is still higher than in the UK or elsewhere. I am still getting 12% return even though rents have fallen from last year. And that too tax free. The 1 cheque scheme was flawed from the start and I am glad its come down to 3 or 4 (hopefully it will be month to month as is the case worldwide). 

I would rather buy health care, pay tuition to a private school, etc than pay one-third of my hard earned money to the govt. For example I can buy all these services for as low as $10K/year for my family; whereas I end up paying 35K/year as taxes if I earn 100K/year. I am not saying that the UK system is bad. I am just saying that a system of no taxes is simply more attractive. 

I agree with you that Dubai needs to make changes to its laws to allow expats to stay in the country once they lose their jobs. Sheikh Mo needs to get his act together ASAP. :bash:


----------



## aviduser

having no taxes is not the way forward, it allows the leaders of the countries to do what they like as they are no longer accountable to the general populace. 

If we could vote out sheik mo how many of us would after this. 

Paying no tax means sheik mo can go and buy the worlds biggest boat and get away with. It enables him and the family to hoover up as much cash as possible, look after the right people and essentially run a country into the ground. 

You think that's a good system.


----------



## Mistermark

aviduser said:


> having no taxes is not the way forward, it allows the leaders of the countries to do what they like as they are no longer accountable to the general populace.
> 
> If we could vote out sheik mo how many of us would after this.
> 
> Paying no tax means sheik mo can go and buy the worlds biggest boat and get away with. It enables him and the family to hoover up as much cash as possible, look after the right people and essentially run a country into the ground.
> 
> You think that's a good system.


I don't think tax and accountability have to go hand in hand. There are democratic countries with no tax and undemocratic ones with tax.


----------



## smussuw

^^ exactly !


----------



## Wannaberich

googly said:


> Regarding rental income, it is still higher than in the UK or elsewhere. I am still getting 12% return even though rents have fallen from last year. And that too tax free. The 1 cheque scheme was flawed from the start and I am glad its come down to 3 or 4 (hopefully it will be month to month as is the case worldwide).
> 
> I would rather buy health care, pay tuition to a private school, etc than pay one-third of my hard earned money to the govt. For example I can buy all these services for as low as $10K/year for my family; whereas I end up paying 35K/year as taxes if I earn 100K/year. I am not saying that the UK system is bad. I am just saying that a system of no taxes is simply more attractive.
> 
> I agree with you that Dubai needs to make changes to its laws to allow expats to stay in the country once they lose their jobs. Sheikh Mo needs to get his act together ASAP. :bash:


Yes rent is tax free if you live in Dubai,if you have to bring it back to the Uk then it isnt.Rental income I dont think is a reason to buy a property in Dubai.
I'd rather the property on my doorstep to take care of rather than thousands of miles away unless theres a big advantage.
As for paying $10K a year on health care etc,based on the UK average wage which I believe is around £25K,what you pay is no different from over here.
Difference is there are no benefits whatsoever in Dubai so which is the better system?
A modern society would tax the population and use that money to look after those people and improve the country.Doesnt have to be 23% like we pay but
maybe they could get away with say 12% and give people free health care and schools etc.
People are always envious when they see these tax free countries yet they forget or dont realise yeS its tax free but then you have to pay for all these things from your wages.Therefore do you actually clear more money than you would in the UK.


----------



## Hanna

*RERA Dubai - New Law for settling Property disputes*

Thursday, April 23, 2009
RERA Dubai - New Law for settling Property disputes

sourche Xpress4me

Full refunds will be given to investors of real estate development projects that are officially cancelled by government property regulators under a pending law, XPRESS has learnt.Under Law No 9 of 2009, Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) has stipulated that if – after a thorough government review – a project is cancelled, all cash paid by buyers will be returned by developers upon termination of contract.

Effectiveness Law No 9, which provides a sliding scale for refunds, has been signed and approved. The law however, only becomes official and legally binding once it gets published in Dubai’s official gazette.

Rera will apply the law and give directions to developers on what steps to take. Mohammad Kamal, Head of Real Estate Rera officials couldn’t be reached for comment by press time. The new rules amend previous laws and will frame new procedures for “terminations of sale and purchase agreements for off-plan units and will set the damages payable to the developer depending on the progress of construction”, according to Lovells law firm.
Lovells stated that if a “developer’s project is cancelled by Rera” the “purchaser shall be refunded all monies paid to date”.
The changes may help unravel months of uncertainty by investors who have faithfully continued to pay instalments to developers who failed to begin any construction on projects to which buyers legally signed contracts.
“Law 9 will provide significant guidance to the real estate market and will clarify the uncertainty on terminations and damages,” said Lovells.
Mohammad Kamal, Lovells Head of Real Estate Middle East, said the final version of the new law contains the full refund provision for cancelled projects only.Kamal was part of a Rera working group that helped draft the new rules.“Rera will apply the law and give directions to developers on what steps to take,” Kamal said, noting that arbitration won’t be needed because “the disputes would be settled under the law”. Compensation rate
As previously reported by XPRESS, the new law contains a sliding scale that spells out the rate of investor compensation to be paid by developers based upon the amount of construction completed.Roughly 875 projects are now being visited by government inspectors across Dubai to determine the progress of each development.The new law, meanwhile, dictates that all terminations “must be served through the Dubai Land Department and the purchaser shall be given 30 days to rectify a breach”.

Sliding scale
The following is the percentage of refunds as provided for in Law No 9:

* 80 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 100 per cent of cash he/she has paid to date
* 60 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 40 per cent of purchase price
* Less than 60 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 25 per cent of purchase price
* Construction hasn’t started: Buyer forfeits 30 per cent of cash he/she has paid to date
* When project is officially cancelled by Rera: Buyer shall be refunded all cash he/she has paid to date.


----------



## speculator

aviduser said:


> Paying no tax means sheik mo can go and buy the worlds biggest boat and get away with. It enables him and the family to hoover up as much cash as possible, look after the right people and essentially run a country into the ground.
> 
> You think that's a good system.


Yes but what about all the taxes ive paid in the UK. Who's accountable ? Who is going to be sent to prison for the crimes committed against the UK tax payer.

Frankly I don't like paying tax. I don't like paying to bail out the banks and keep able healthy people. I don't think my UK taxes are fairly spent on things that are important to me and those are not wars and not banks. our government has not spent our money in the best interests of the taxpayer & the country.

The debate has become a bit of a contest between the UK and Dubai. Guys we are comparing chalk & cheese. They both have pros & cons and some of us on this thread have got our fingers stuck in a few pies in both places.

I can tell you that the property markets in Pakistan & India have been thriving in recent years and this is where the hot Asian money has been coming from. Now those people have invested in Dubai for their own good personal reasons. Maybe diversification, maybe political security etc. Now the argument goes the same for those guys: is Dubai better or worse than all the other places where the money comes from. 

In summary all these countries have pros & cons. My personal view is to be diversified but my stance on the UK is not optimistic for the longer term. Markets like Dubai will always be volatile. Dubai has some major issue to sort out but I feel its long term prospects are way better than most places.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mortgage lenders urged to stimulate market 
Staff Report
Published: April 22, 2009, 23:04


Dubai: Dubai Property Society (DPS), an association of professionals engaged in the real estate sector in Dubai, on Wednesday sought new steps to encourage mortgage lending to revive the property sector that has seen a sharp fall in transaction volumes.

At a media briefing, representatives of leading companies said both government authorities and the private sector need to work in tandem to boost demand.

Shaikh Khalid Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, executive chairman of Tamweel, said Dubai-based mortgage lenders Amlak and Tamweel will resume providing finance to home buyers within weeks. The two would resume lending activities before moving ahead with a likely merger.

The DPS meeting felt that Amlak and Tamweel's lending operations are crucial to reviving deal volumes as the two share the bulk of the mortgage business between them. 


Those present at the meeting included Adel Lootah, executive director of DPS, Mohammad Nimer, chief executive officer of MAG property development Group, Rory O'Connor, director of real estate at Arenco, Ronald Hinchey, partner of Cluttons Property Consultants, and Elaine Jones, CEO of Asteco. Naaman Atta Allah, chief operating officer of Emaar Properties, said while transactions are down, there is now more interest from end-users.

Some DPS members said offering residence visas to property buyers by the government would help in attracting foreign buyers.

"We actively seek avenues to openly tackle all challenges in the real estate market and address stakeholders' enquiries in a transparent and objective manner. The roundtable reflects our strong commitment to enhancing the sector's performance levels," said Ahmad Al Matroushi, chairman of DPS.


----------



## googly

Wannaberich said:


> Difference is there are no benefits whatsoever in Dubai so which is the better system?


There are pros and cons of each system and I am not saying that the UK model is bad. All I am saying is that people inherently DONT WANT TO PAY TAXES. Especially if they know that their tax money is going to be used for things they dont approve of, for example going to war in Iraq or torturing people in faraway prisons. 

You seem to prefer living in a country where you pay exorbitant taxes and receive some benefits. I would much rather pay no taxes, pay for my own benefits and then give away a part of my income to my favourite charity.


----------



## googly

High Times said:


> I would rather have a business in the UK turning over £10 million and paying 35% tax, than a business in Dubai earning £5 million tax free. So would every major corporation in the world, thats why London is what it is, and Dubai is what it is.


In case you havent heard, the UK govt is now going to tax people earning over 150K FIFTY PERCENT TAX. So, in fact you would be giving away almost 5 million of your 10 million to the govt. :lol:

I would rather earn 5 million tax free in Dubai anyday.


----------



## Wannaberich

googly said:


> There are pros and cons of each system and I am not saying that the UK model is bad. All I am saying is that people inherently DONT WANT TO PAY TAXES. Especially if they know that their tax money is going to be used for things they dont approve of, for example going to war in Iraq or torturing people in faraway prisons.
> 
> You seem to prefer living in a country where you pay exorbitant taxes and receive some benefits. I would much rather pay no taxes, pay for my own benefits and then give away a part of my income to my favourite charity.


You're missing the point.People in Dubai dont pay or want to pay taxes but arent as well off financially as you think because they still have to pay for health care etc.Maybe I'm wrong?
Personally I would rather pay taxes which equated to the same amount you say you pay for health care/schools and get the other benefits such as unemployment benefit,child benefits etc if I ever needed them.
I do think however the UK has taken it way too far and there are simply too many benefits which encourage people to sit on the backsides and for 15 year old slappers to have kids.
I do think though that there wouldnt be a worry for foreigners moving to Dubai to try and take advantage of a benefit system.After all the type who would move there are the proactive type who want to do well for themselves and work.
Dubai after all should be looking for people to see the place as somewhere to settle long term.Most agree visas are essential for this.A benefit system is important too.If you lose your job and are short of money then you may have to return home.With benefits it may be just enough to see you through until you are able to gain employment.


----------



## speculator

googly said:


> In case you havent heard, the UK govt is now going to tax people earning over 150K FIFTY PERCENT TAX. So, in fact you would be giving away almost 5 million of your 10 million to the govt. :lol:
> 
> I would rather earn 5 million tax free in Dubai anyday.


Dont forget national insurance contributions, another tax, at 10%. Add on VAT(15% for now) because its pretty much on everything we buy then that takes the total for a high earner to a whopping 75%.

Ok so the majority dont earn thos sorts of figures. Even for mid earners its 45% give or take a few allowances here and there.

Add to this other taxes such as community taxes and the levy imposed on fuel, alchohol, cigs, road fund licence etc etc.

God.... Im glad i did that. I know now where my money's being going.

On that analysis I work for the government for 9 months of the year.


----------



## Jeroen45

googly said:


> The pound has depreciated by 25-30% from its highs. Therefore, property values in the UK have dropped by 45-50% in terms of dollars or dirhams, right?
> 
> Now compare that figure with the drop in prices in Dubai. I would say that on average the drop in values in both places is similar. In the US, prices have also dropped by the same amount.
> 
> Therefore, the only real argument against Dubai is that people are migrating out of Dubai. So all the UAE govt needs to do is to lure people back (and then allow them to stay) and with no taxation you will see hordes of them coming back.
> 
> No one wants to pay 30-35% of their income as tax. Aloha Dubai! :nuts:


You mean 75% ;-) (income tax, value added tax, car tax, gas tax, .....)


----------



## googly

speculator said:


> In summary all these countries have pros & cons. My personal view is to be diversified but my stance on the UK is not optimistic for the longer term. Markets like Dubai will always be volatile. Dubai has some major issue to sort out but I feel its long term prospects are way better than most places.


Well said. UK has its own charm as an investment opportunity, but to write off Dubai as a lost cause is being simplistic. Granted that mature markets are more stable but the developing ones are more exciting. 

We have all highlighted the problems that need to be fixed in Dubai, but there are problems that need to be fixed in the UK as well, like substantial lowering of taxes. And since that wont happen, you will see people continue to move to Dubai from the UK and elsewhere. 

My British real estate agent told me recently that he would NEVER move back to the UK because he simply loves Dubai.


----------



## googly

Wannaberich said:


> Personally I would rather pay taxes which equated to the same amount you say you pay for health care/schools and get the other benefits such as unemployment benefit,child benefits etc if I ever needed them.


That would come to about 5 to 10% income tax and NO OTHER TAXES. I dont think the UK or US govts would agree (how would they finance wars and bailouts?). :nuts:

BTW, "Total government debt will double to 79% of GDP by 2013" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8011321.stm). Thats not too far off from Dubai's debt, no? And how does it compare with UAE's debt?


----------



## Imre

*Colliers International*

*Dubai Residential second quarter 2009*

Residential property prices in Dubai peaked
in Q2 2008 but the news of a looming global
credit crisis subsequently curbed investor
appetite from the summer of 2008 onwards.
This, coupled with increased market supply,
initiated a slowdown in capital value growth
(Q3 2008). As liquidity shortages in the
banking sector took hold and banks clamped
down on lending to both consumers and
developers, the market went into sharp decline
during Q4 2008. Announcements of projects
being indefinitely deferred or cancelled further
fuelled negative investor sentiment and the
continued decline in prices into Q2 2009.
The Colliers House Price Index (HPI) for
Q4 2008 registered an average decline of
8% during the quarter and, according to
statistics released by HSBC, transacted sales
prices declined by 29% across the market
and a drop of 40% in transaction volumes
between the market peak and Q1 2009. The
HPI furthermore highlighted performance
differentials between prices achieved in
completed projects and projects still under
construction and also variances in prices
between different locations and projects. The
extent of the decline in market prices will
therefore vary between developments and
locations, where the desirability of certain
developments and locations will place that
development above, below or in line with the
average rate of decline. Overall, however, our
preliminary research indicates that sales prices
have declined between 40 to 42% over the last
two quarters, based on actual transactions.
Whereas the decline in average selling prices
is generally driven by end-users who are
either unable to invest or not willing to invest
in the current economic climate, there are
cash-rich investors and institutions who have
yet to capitalise on opportunities to acquire
properties in distressed sale situations. Longer
term real estate investors and institutions
have different demand drivers than owner
occupiers. Currently there is still a significant
gap between the investors purchasing price
point required to achieve their return goals
and the sale price expectations of sellers.
Whilst there have been some examples of
bargain hunting the price/expectation gap
remains in place.
Another key factor that has characterised the
global economic slowdown and has contributed
to the downturn in the residential property
market has been corporate downsizing. With
expatriates made redundant and having to
leave the country, this compounds supply
issues as further vacant residential units renter
the market.
A Colliers occupancy survey indicates that
occupancy levels dropped from 93% in Q4
2008 to 74% in March 2009 which has led
to a sharp decline in rental rates. “Buy-to-let”
investors who bought in the years prior to the
peak in the market are generally in a position
to absorb the fall in rental levels however
investors who bought near or at the peak
of the market are finding that their rental
income levels may no longer service their
loan obligations.
In Q4 2008 Colliers estimated a residential
supply growth of around 140,000 units by Q4
2010. Looking ahead, this estimate has now
been significantly reduced to around 64,800
units between Q1 2009 and Q4 2011. In
spite of the expected reduction in the supply
of new units onto the market, this additional
supply together with the rapid shift in the
supply-demand dynamic experienced in the
Dubai market over the past six months, will
exacerbate the existing oversupplied position
in the market. It is therefore reasonable to
assume that as new stock continually comes
online that the downward trend in the market
will continue throughout 2009 and is unlikely
to stabilise before Q2 2010.


----------



## Imre

*Dubai OFFICE second quarter 2009*

The impact of the global financial crisis on
Dubai has manifested itself in widespread
corporate downsizing in terms of both staff
numbers and operational spread. The
financial services, real estate and construction
industries have been particularly hard hit,
but support industries such as marketing,
public relations and information technology
have also suffered under the ripple effect.
This has resulted in reduced office occupancy
levels in a market that saw a 45% increase
in supply between 2007 and 2008, with
993,000 m² coming on stream in the twelve
month period to Q1 2009 alone. An Office
Occupancy Survey conducted by Colliers
International in Q1 2009 indicated that
average demand for unit size has shrunk from
an average of 750 m² previously to 300 m²
currently.
The result has been a rapid shift from a
landlord driven to a tenant driven market
with reductions in asking rentals, attractive
payment terms, offers of rent-free fit-out
periods as inducements . There have been
instances of fully fitted office space being
offered at rentals below those being charges
for shell & core space a few months before.
The extent of this shift varies considerably
between the ‘Trade Centre’ area (between
the Trade Centre roundabout and Defence
roundabout on Sheikh Zayed Road) and
‘new Dubai’ (the area to the south of Defence
roundabout).
In the Trade Centre area asking rents have
experienced average corrections up to 15%
whereas the ‘new Dubai’ area has seen
harsher corrections. Many of the tenants
in the Trade Centre area are historic and
are paying rentals below the current market
average. Concurrently buildings in this area
enjoy occupancy rates of around 90%. These
factors have supported rental rates in the area
and explain the more moderate corrections.
There have nevertheless been exceptions,
particularly in the Secondary Grade office
segment, where the tenant profile includes
a larger proportion of small business tenants
who have experienced greater economic
attrition and therefore consequentially
higher building vacancy rates. In these
buildings rental rates have dropped from
a peak of US$1,170 per m² in Q3 2008 to
below US$520 per m² currently.
In ‘new Dubai’ the downward adjustment
in asking rentals particularly in office space
completed over the past twelve month, has
been much more severe. Colliers’ Q1 2009
office survey revealed that newly completed
buildings in areas such as JLT, TECOM,
Silicon Oasis and Outsource Zone had an
average occupancy ratio of 40%. It must
however be explained that, in calculating this
average, the data included flag-ship, purpose
built office buildings with an 80% occupancy
alongside office buildings launched without
any pre-letting, and which had a 20%
occupancy. The result is that asking rentals
have dropped by as much as 45% year-onyear
in many cases.
The Colliers office survey indicated a
reduction in average selling prices from US$
11,730 per m² in Q3 2008 to US$7,200 per
m² in Q1 2009. The reduced selling price
further fluctuated between US$7,500 per m²
for units in completed buildings to US$6,600
per m² for units in buildings still under
construction.
Colliers expects the additional supply of
office space by 2011, to be around 3.1 million
m2. This is a conservative estimate, making
allowance for project delays, postponements
and cancellations, yet it will more than
double (103%) the existing supply of office
space in Dubai. The majority of this stock
will come from developments in Business
Bay, DIFC and JLT and developments spread
along Emirates Road.


----------



## Wannaberich

googly said:


> That would come to about 5 to 10% income tax and NO OTHER TAXES. I dont think the UK or US govts would agree (how would they finance wars and bailouts?). :nuts:
> 
> BTW, "Total government debt will double to 79% of GDP by 2013" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8011321.stm). Thats not too far off from Dubai's debt, no? And how does it compare with UAE's debt?


5/10%?
U said u pay $10k.If the UK average wage is £25K then we pay the same as you for health care etc.
All I'm saying is that personally I would see a 12% tax as not a bad thing for Dubai especially if financially you are no worse off then paying for all those things seperately.
What do the low paid workers do about health care/schools.Is it basically just tough shit for them?


----------



## googly

Wannaberich said:


> All I'm saying is that personally I would see a 12% tax as not a bad thing for Dubai especially if financially you are no worse off then paying for all those things seperately.
> What do the low paid workers do about health care/schools.Is it basically just tough shit for them?


The UK welfare state is designed to help the poor stay afloat by taxing the rich and subsidizing the poor. Thats a great system for many, but has now resulted in as much as 50% taxation (or 75% as some have pointed out), which the govt spends as it feels appropriate (in wars and bailouts). 

An alternative to this system is the one that has no taxes and no benefits. So the rich stay happy cause they pay MUCH LESS for the same benefits. They give to their favourite charities and thus have control over how their money is spent. The low paid workers are taken care of by their employers and the poor are taken care of by charities (both govt and private). 

Note that in the US which also has high taxation but doesnt have universal health care, it is basically tough shit for the low paid workers and the poor. 

Dubai doesnt need 12% taxation as you put it. Rather it needs laws wherein the employer purchases health/unemployment/etc insurance for its employees. Then, if you lose your job, unemployment insurance kicks in and protects you while you look for another job and the UAE govt allows you to stay in the country while you find another job. 

NO TAXATION with first world infrastucture as is the case in Dubai will drive people to come to Dubai. If you start taxation in Dubai, you take away its major charm.


----------



## Wannaberich

googly said:


> The UK welfare state is designed to help the poor stay afloat by taxing the rich and subsidizing the poor. Thats a great system for many, but has now resulted in as much as 50% taxation (or 75% as some have pointed out), which the govt spends as it feels appropriate (in wars and bailouts).
> 
> An alternative to this system is the one that has no taxes and no benefits. So the rich stay happy cause they pay MUCH LESS for the same benefits. They give to their favourite charities and thus have control over how their money is spent. The low paid workers are taken care of by their employers and the poor are taken care of by charities (both govt and private).
> 
> Note that in the US which also has high taxation but doesnt have universal health care, it is basically tough shit for the low paid workers and the poor.
> 
> Dubai doesnt need 12% taxation as you put it. Rather it needs laws wherein the employer purchases health/unemployment/etc insurance for its employees. Then, if you lose your job, unemployment insurance kicks in and protects you while you look for another job and the UAE govt allows you to stay in the country while you find another job.
> 
> NO TAXATION with first world infrastucture as is the case in Dubai will drive people to come to Dubai. If you start taxation in Dubai, you take away its major charm.


I dont think the UK system is designed just to help to poor.As for the top rate of 50%,that was brought in as a result of the credit crunch only
and is wrong.We should not make the rich pay for everything.
I agree our system sucks big time.WTF should I have to bail out layabouts,single mothers,healthy people claiming disability,plus foreigners who come here and land a council house etc straight away.
I would only be in favour of a tax in Dubai thats wasnt too high and didnt turn the place into a nanny state like britain.
A law which states the employer must purchase health care/unemployment benefit insurance is a good idea.Everyone should be covered from high earners to low paid workers.Schools should be covered too.
Otherwise,a family in Dubai with one income I would guess would need maybe around £35k per annum for all these plus rent/mortgage and I doubt £35K is the average wage.


----------



## AppleMac

Wannaberich said:


> Otherwise,a family in Dubai with one income I would guess would need maybe around £35k per annum for all these plus rent/mortgage and I doubt £35K is the average wage.


£35k doesn't need to be the average wage - most low paid jobs are single status only so there are very few low income families.

We do have many men on their own with their families back in their home country.


----------



## Wannaberich

AppleMac said:


> £35k doesn't need to be the average wage - most low paid jobs are single status only so there are very few low income families.
> 
> We do have many men on their own with their families back in their home country.


£35K does need to be the average wage if Dubai wants to get its population figure up. 
Better to have a city where a large portion are families and not just single people passing through.


----------



## Mistermark

Wannaberich said:


> Yes rent is tax free if you live in Dubai,if you have to bring it back to the Uk then it isnt.Rental income I dont think is a reason to buy a property in Dubai.
> I'd rather the property on my doorstep to take care of rather than thousands of miles away unless theres a big advantage.
> As for paying $10K a year on health care etc,based on the UK average wage which I believe is around £25K,what you pay is no different from over here.
> Difference is there are no benefits whatsoever in Dubai so which is the better system?
> A modern society would tax the population and use that money to look after those people and improve the country.Doesnt have to be 23% like we pay but
> maybe they could get away with say 12% and give people free health care and schools etc.
> People are always envious when they see these tax free countries yet they forget or dont realise yeS its tax free but then you have to pay for all these things from your wages.Therefore do you actually clear more money than you would in the UK.


I agree with you, though there are two things against the UK:

1. If tax was a flat £10k or so, irrespective of earnings, then I agree with you that the bill wouldn't be a lot higher than the cost of providing one's own healthcare etc in a tax-free country such as Dubai. Trouble is, not only is tax a percentage of income but the percentage goes up - and, now, tax reliefs fall away - as salaries increase. So the UK is a fantastic deal for those who can't or won't work, a reasonable deal for those on modest incomes but a very bad deal indeed (especially after the Budget) for those earning higher salaries.

2. Despite having a lot of money pumped into them in recent years, in some areas our public services are still poor, which leads to the need to pay for them twice - once through taxes, and again privately.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> I agree with you, though there are two things against the UK:
> 
> 1. If tax was a flat £10k or so, irrespective of earnings, then I agree with you that the bill wouldn't be a lot higher than the cost of providing one's own healthcare etc in a tax-free country such as Dubai. Trouble is, not only is tax a percentage of income but the percentage goes up - and, now, tax reliefs fall away - as salaries increase. So the UK is a fantastic deal for those who can't or won't work, a reasonable deal for those on modest incomes but a very bad deal indeed (especially after the Budget) for those earning higher salaries.
> 
> 2. Despite having a lot of money pumped into them in recent years, in some areas our public services are still poor, which leads to the need to pay for them twice - once through taxes, and again privately.


Ive alreaady said the UK tax system sucks.I wouldnt suggest Dubai copying it.
A flat rate of 12% regardless of income is what I suggested for Dubai.


----------



## 234sale

I suggest Tax cigarette's, 5 AED on every pack across the UAE

Must be at least Million packs get sold a week in Dubai,

So just made Dubai's economy 1/4 Billion AED in increased revenue.

UK on the other hand has run out of things to Tax.


----------



## High Times

Legalise drugs and tax them a 50%

Cocaine
Heroine
Cannabis
LSD
Exctacy

That would pay for the bailout within 5 years, and we all get high too.

HAPPY DAZE...............


----------



## Wannaberich

Tax the hookers.Theres enough in Dubai to bring in $10.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
per month.


----------



## HappyLarry

Wannaberich said:


> Tax the hookers.Theres enough in Dubai to bring in $10.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
> per month.


That's a lot of bucks for a bang!
or
is it the other way round?
:cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

ehhhm, I don't think we are doing a good public campaign here for permanent visas for westerners. :lol:


----------



## 234sale

High Times said:


> Legalise drugs and tax them a 50%
> 
> Cocaine
> Heroine
> Cannabis
> LSD
> Exctacy
> 
> That would pay for the bailout within 5 years, and we all get high too.
> 
> HAPPY DAZE...............


UK stimulus plan :nuts:

Though Tax at 500% would still make uk plc prices cheaper than street value,


----------



## googly

*How to get people to return to Dubai*

Notwithstanding some local peoples wishes that Dubai should be rid of foreigners (smussuw?), I propose the following steps that must be taken by the UAE govt immediately to lure people back to Dubai: 

1. Maintain the NO INCOME TAX regime.
2. Force employers to purchase health/unemployment insurance for all employees. 
3. Allow foreigners who lose their jobs to stay in the country for atleast ONE year. 
4. Allow retired people, self employed persons and investors who purchase property to live in the UAE indefinitely. Make them purchase health insurance so that they dont become a burden on the health system. 
5. Implement a Banckruptcy law which protects people who default because of loss of job/etc. 
6. Change the Bounced cheque law. There should be a penalty on bounced cheques, not jail sentence. 
7. Make sure banks lend only to those who put a downpayment of atleast 25%. 
8. Rent must be paid on a monthly basis with not more than 5% increase in rent per year. 

Did I miss anything?


----------



## speculator

^^^^^^^^

Yes you did. 
The hookers are getting uglier by the day. They should be vetted via a beauty contest.

Now then all problems solved. We can shut the thread down.:lol:


----------



## smussuw

googly said:


> Notwithstanding some local peoples wishes that Dubai should be rid of foreigners (smussuw?), I propose the following steps that must be taken by the UAE govt immediately to lure people back to Dubai:
> 
> 1. Maintain the NO INCOME TAX regime.
> 2. Force employers to purchase health/unemployment insurance for all employees.
> 3. Allow foreigners who lose their jobs to stay in the country for atleast ONE year.
> 4. Allow retired people, self employed persons and investors who purchase property to live in the UAE indefinitely. Make them purchase health insurance so that they dont become a burden on the health system.
> 5. Implement a Banckruptcy law which protects people who default because of loss of job/etc.
> 6. Change the Bounced cheque law. There should be a penalty on bounced cheques, not jail sentence.
> 7. Make sure banks lend only to those who put a downpayment of atleast 25%.
> 8. Rent must be paid on a monthly basis with not more than 5% increase in rent per year.
> 
> Did I miss anything?


1. Yes (should change in the following years though)
2. Yes (planned already)
3. No (if yes it should be 6 months maximum, not a year)
4. No (never)
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. Yes
8. Yes


----------



## Spurs

smussuw said:


> 1. Yes (should change in the following years though)
> 2. Yes (planned already)
> 3. No (if yes it should be 6 months maximum, not a year)
> 4. No (never)
> 5. Yes
> 6. Yes
> 7. Yes
> 8. Yes


6 and a half out of 8 not bad. Whats the reason for the strict no on number 4?


----------



## Wannaberich

googly said:


> Did I miss anything?


Visas.

9/Dont subsidise Emiratis and change any rules that say you have to employ them.
10/Make Smussuw live in the UK for at least a year and have him endure all that he hates about the west.
11/Change the rule that says you cant live with your ho if you're not married.
12/Make being drunk in the streets etc legal so as to make Dubai more attractive for British lager lout tourists.
13/Allow topless sunbathing on the beaches except for mingers.


----------



## smussuw

Actually I was thinking that if income tax will come any time soon it should be applied on expatiates only, or maybe we should just call it expatriate tax :laugh:

lol @ wannaberich, it isn't like I haven't beento the west ...


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> lol @ wannaberich, it isn't like I haven't beento the west ...


Thats right.U spent two hours in Milan or something and decided u hated the whole of italy and italians for some reason?

Did u get to go to one of those drunken orgies in one of the london hotels?
:naughty:


----------



## smussuw

Wannaberich said:


> Thats right.U spent two hours in Milan or something and decided u hated the whole of italy and italians for some reason?


I spent more than that but I don't think u'd care :laugh:


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> I did more than that but I don't think u'd care :laugh:



I'll always care where you and my other buddy Altin are concerned.
:hug:


----------



## Philippa C

TDemirel said:


> I can confirm the same.
> I also get agents knocked on my door, but they were offering "death donkey" prices.
> The buyers are thinking that, everybody is willing to sale with this distressed prices.
> But the good think is, there are buyers around, and their number is increasing. Even they don't want to pay.
> I assume when the lending starts (eases a little) again, the number of buyers will increase.
> Let's see


I was quoted a reasonable price - about 2 million less than at the peak of the market but still a lot more than the op. I know agents try to encourage peole to list their properties by quoting a higher price than the final sales price. I'm just happy that there is some activity in the market as for so many months so little was happening. We are also getting calls from agents looking for rental properties - again prices are lower than last summer but those prices were crazy and unsustainable.

I think the calls indicate a change in sentiment from doom & gloom to being more hopeful which is what is needed.


----------



## Spurs

dbxdude said:


> How many projects have been cancelled to date? how many have people have actually had refunds....
> 
> RERA will not cancel 1 project or help 1 person get a refund.... RERA is a PR company. Projects will just go on hold and investors forced to transfer to other projects or sell credit notes at a huge loss. Even if RERA told developers to give refund, developers have long since emptied their accounts and escrow accounts. There is no money.
> 
> The word cancelled is not in the vocab, just the word on Hold.... for ever and ever.....


dbxdude your completely right, and this has already been going on for some time now. RERA talks the talk but they dont walk the walk! I do not know of a single investor who has been given a full refund. The de


----------



## Naz UK

sperate *****.


----------



## mackie1964

smussuw said:


> According to Colliers international we are now back to the levels of the second quarter of 2007.
> 
> Can't wait to reach 2002 levels :banana:


Nothing Patriotic about wanting your country to fail despite all of the issues and concerns that you have (some of them are legitimate). This could end up really bad and my beloved Dubai might never recover.


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> Can't wait to reach 2002 levels :banana:


Same here.This will make property far more affordable for ex-pats who would stream into Dubai and make Emiratis like you an even smaller minority.
Great minds think alike.


----------



## Spurs

Naz UK said:


> sperate *****.





Spurs said:


> dbxdude your completely right, and this has already been going on for some time now. RERA talks the talk but they dont walk the walk! I do not know of a single investor who has been given a full refund. The de


:lol: something along those lines


----------



## smussuw

Wannaberich said:


> Same here.This will make property far more affordable for ex-pats who would stream into Dubai and make Emiratis like you an even smaller minority.
> Great minds think alike.


Half of them, especially the unwanted ones, will be left already before that :happy:


----------



## docc

^^ 2002 levels?

So you want Dubai to miserably fail?


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> Half of them, especially the unwanted ones, will be left already before that :happy:


I disagree.Any cheap property will be snapped up.Get ready to welcome a whole new bunch of ex-pats to Dubai.


----------



## 234sale

Current Market Situation


The reason for this correction was the following factors

-	Remittance Exchange rates / Dollar Strength against majority of currencies

-	Mortgage Lenders Stop Lending

-	Availability of credit

-	Over exposure of investors to multiple speculative investments

-	General global market sentiment


If we look at established European markets why have these crashed by such significant levels? 
My answer to this, is that the process of the crash in property has been reduced by lending rates being forced lower by economic policy. Cash from Tax payers is being used to support banking institutions.


Today in the Dubai Property Market

Affordability has returned

-	Prices have stabilized in all real estate sectors

-	Land prices have reduced significantly by 75%

-	Commercial Leases have come down by 50%

-	Residential Leases reduced by 30%

-	Companies now streamlined, unlike for further redundancy

-	Expatriates with children of school age are considering sending children to home countries for education. Due to weak job market worldwide, they consider to stay in Middle East 



When is the bottom?

Ramadan 2010 is more likely, the big falls have occurred quickly due to lenders closing there mortgage books and currency exchange rates being in favour of remittances , We have stabilised from Q4 2008 when the market crashed by 30 – 50% over a period of 6 months. 

Some off plan districts are already at original prices, with some time to go until final payments are due, we may not see another correction until handover.

So looking Business Bay, it is unlikely to see a change in price until Executive Towers is ready. Previous market trends would suggest that prices increase after handover, the issue in the current market is financing for final installments. But with a completed property, it is more likely for a mortgage to be achieved.

We can not ignore that America, the worlds largest economy is continuing to see property prices reduce. They were the first to suffer in this crisis, it is hard to determine if they will be the first out.










Using figures from agencies, you can see how distressed sales have entered the market. Even though the majority of owners are holding for the long term, some are attempting to liquidate assets. These distressed sales are few in numbers but considering the number of transactions are down, it is possible for you to find prices at 50% off peak over the average sale price.





When will buyers return?

Prices are unlikely to rise in the majority of districts for at least a period of 1 year, it is likely that prices will continue to be significantly reduced for this period. The previous levels in prices we saw where unsustainable, it is impossible to assume that we can bounce back to these levels as the money does not exist to finance developments at these levels.

What is likely is major developments will face huge delays, reducing supply. The UAE has a number of infrastructure projects that are still planned and on going. The government is in a situation to benefit greatly from the reduction in costs. 

Rent’s have an will continue to lower with still large numbers of expat considering leaving after the end of the school year. It is likely that some renegotiation of tenancy contracts will occur, with landlords facing the reality of large numbers of vacancies.

This actual is healthy for UAE as it increases its competitive edge over international hubs of business. Companies have stopped recruiting and are re-evaluating strategies and operations, but all factors considered the UAE still holds many opportunities for the future. 



Distressed Developers

Private and Government developers have yet to re-launch developments at 2006 levels. They still only advertise pre-correction prices which the admit are currently unrealistic to sell at

From visiting cityscape Abu Dhabi it was evident that development companies also were unwilling to sell. 

Developer’s with stock are looking at long term strategies to recuperate losses occurred. Considering this factor, it is likely for prices from developers to remain significantly higher than resale, yet private lease prices to come down by a further 20%, in line with 2006 levels. 

It would be an efficient strategy to remain close to all investors to service leasing requirements for completed property. Investors and Developers have no other opportunity than to work together to maximize profits.





Government Regulation, Property Court and RERA

We are still waiting for the implementation of new laws, this is because of
re-interpretation of existing laws. 

Dubai is trying to cope with it first ever property correction, The ability of government departments which are indented to regulate the market yet have any judicial power. 

The first test cases that are processed through the Property Court will give a clear indication of how the law will be interpreted. 

With the Government of Dubai owning many development companies, it is likely some favour will be on the side of the developers. Yet this is personal speculation



Infrastructure

Even with the slow down in development, infrastructure and the cost of building power stations, de-salination plants, district cooling plants, roads and bridges is a significant factor for consideration.

Currently even the developments that can be completed have implementation issues. Re-routing power has been already achieved but the main difficulty faced is increasing load further.

It continues to be a factor that cannot be ignored, as even the buildings under construction, may not have enough power or water supplied to them.

It is likely building regulations will increase and only green buildings being consider in future development. Cost of green buildings are higher which will also maintain higher selling prices as construction and design cost increase.




The Future of Dubai Property Market


-	Some development have been cancelled

o	Jumeriah Gardens
o	Mohammed Bin Rashid Gardens
o	One Runway from new Airport
o	Universe
o	F1 World, Union Properties


-	Some development will be shelved for an indefinite period due to other central developments with cancelled or vacant plots.

o	Dubai Waterfront
o	Palm Deira
o	Palm Jebal Ali
o	Limitless phase 2-4 http://www.arabianbusiness.com/5537...of-land-are-ready-for-handover-to-developers-
o Arabian Canal http://www.arabianbusiness.com/512919-arabian-canal-project-plots-available-soon
o	Sama Dubai Lagoons Development
o	DIFC phase 2
o	Meydan
o	City Arabia
o	The World?


-	Estimated percentage of available plots in Developed districts

o	JLT  20%
o	Dubai Marina 15%
o	Downtown Dubai 50%
o	DIFC 20%
o	Palm Jumeriah 20%
o	Jumeriah Village 75%
o	DIP 50%
o	Sports City 45%
o	International City Phase 1 30%
o	International City Phase 2 90%
o	DWC 95%
o	DMC 80%
o	Residential Complex 98%

o	Business Bay 75% 
( 51 project can possibly be completed out of 198) See attached doc.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=740000


The Future of Dubai Property Market

In less developed master developments, sold land is already under dispute. 

It is likely with new RERA regulation it impossible for this land to be developed under current ownership. 

This land will be eventually resold with payment plans and buying conditions to only registered developers, 

Master developments in districts not close to amenities or existing developments will be likely cancelled.




4 Key Development Zones

-	Emirates Road developments ( Low - Mid end )

-	Marina, JLT, Jumeriah Gardens ( Low - Mid End ) 

-	Downtown Burj Dubai, DIFC, Business Bay (Mid – High)

-	Palm Jumeriah, World Development (Mid - High End)


Some districts will fight to survive as failed developments will haunt the surroundings. Remaining cheaper and less attractive to investors and developers alike.

With the restriction placed on developers, remaining developers focus will be on the mid – high end of development. It is unlikely for them to be associated with the lower end of the market.

I expect the Government of Dubai to be the most active in the low end using its existing developers, as it’s interest will be to complete what is already 25% started.

Private developers will go after land initially in mid-high end developments. They are likely to produce again high end products, marketed to the new wave of Tax migrants fleeing developed markets. The Tax free economy of Dubai will retain key benefits to the worlds elite looking to avoid issues in home countries.

^^ Just some of my own expectations. The views expressed are my own.


----------



## mackie1964

^^ @234Sale :applause::applause::applause:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts :cheers:


----------



## speculator

^^^^:applause::applause::cheers1:


----------



## smussuw

Wannaberich said:


> I disagree.Any cheap property will be snapped up.Get ready to welcome a whole new bunch of ex-pats to Dubai.


I should prepare my stick to chase them around them :cheers:



docc said:


> ^^ 2002 levels?
> 
> So you want Dubai to miserably fail?


Wanting 2002 levels is not synonym to wanting Dubai to fail. I certainly want our current business model to fail though


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> I should prepare my stick to chase them around them :cheers:


Make sure if you beat them that doesnt get captured on video as with your fellow Emirati.
:naughty:


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> o	Jumeriah Village 75%
> 
> Some districts will fight to survive as failed developments will haunt the surroundings.


Says it all really.
Great post 234.


----------



## Spurs

234sale :bow::bow::bow:


----------



## 234sale

234sale said:


> Current Market Situation
> 
> 
> The reason for this correction was the following factors
> 
> -	Remittance Exchange rates / Dollar Strength against majority of currencies
> 
> -	Mortgage Lenders Stop Lending
> 
> -	Availability of credit
> 
> -	Over exposure of investors to multiple speculative investments
> 
> -	General global market sentiment
> 
> 
> If we look at established European markets why have these crashed by such significant levels?
> My answer to this, is that the process of the crash in property has been reduced by lending rates being forced lower by economic policy. Cash from Tax payers is being used to support banking institutions.
> 
> 
> Today in the Dubai Property Market
> 
> Affordability has returned
> 
> -	Prices have stabilized in all real estate sectors
> 
> -	Land prices have reduced significantly by 75%
> 
> -	Commercial Leases have come down by 50%
> 
> -	Residential Leases reduced by 30%
> 
> -	Companies now streamlined, unlike for further redundancy
> 
> -	Expatriates with children of school age are considering sending children to home countries for education. Due to weak job market worldwide, they consider to stay in Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> When is the bottom?
> 
> Ramadan 2010 is more likely, the big falls have occurred quickly due to lenders closing there mortgage books and currency exchange rates being in favour of remittances , We have stabilised from Q4 2008 when the market crashed by 30 – 50% over a period of 6 months.
> 
> Some off plan districts are already at original prices, with some time to go until final payments are due, we may not see another correction until handover.
> 
> So looking Business Bay, it is unlikely to see a change in price until Executive Towers is ready. Previous market trends would suggest that prices increase after handover, the issue in the current market is financing for final installments. But with a completed property, it is more likely for a mortgage to be achieved.
> 
> We can not ignore that America, the worlds largest economy is continuing to see property prices reduce. They were the first to suffer in this crisis, it is hard to determine if they will be the first out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using figures from agencies, you can see how distressed sales have entered the market. Even though the majority of owners are holding for the long term, some are attempting to liquidate assets. These distressed sales are few in numbers but considering the number of transactions are down, it is possible for you to find prices at 50% off peak over the average sale price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When will buyers return?
> 
> Prices are unlikely to rise in the majority of districts for at least a period of 1 year, it is likely that prices will continue to be significantly reduced for this period. The previous levels in prices we saw where unsustainable, it is impossible to assume that we can bounce back to these levels as the money does not exist to finance developments at these levels.
> 
> What is likely is major developments will face huge delays, reducing supply. The UAE has a number of infrastructure projects that are still planned and on going. The government is in a situation to benefit greatly from the reduction in costs.
> 
> Rent’s have an will continue to lower with still large numbers of expat considering leaving after the end of the school year. It is likely that some renegotiation of tenancy contracts will occur, with landlords facing the reality of large numbers of vacancies.
> 
> This actual is healthy for UAE as it increases its competitive edge over international hubs of business. Companies have stopped recruiting and are re-evaluating strategies and operations, but all factors considered the UAE still holds many opportunities for the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Distressed Developers
> 
> Private and Government developers have yet to re-launch developments at 2006 levels. They still only advertise pre-correction prices which the admit are currently unrealistic to sell at
> 
> From visiting cityscape Abu Dhabi it was evident that development companies also were unwilling to sell.
> 
> Developer’s with stock are looking at long term strategies to recuperate losses occurred. Considering this factor, it is likely for prices from developers to remain significantly higher than resale, yet private lease prices to come down by a further 20%, in line with 2006 levels.
> 
> It would be an efficient strategy to remain close to all investors to service leasing requirements for completed property. Investors and Developers have no other opportunity than to work together to maximize profits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government Regulation, Property Court and RERA
> 
> We are still waiting for the implementation of new laws, this is because of
> re-interpretation of existing laws.
> 
> Dubai is trying to cope with it first ever property correction, The ability of government departments which are indented to regulate the market yet have any judicial power.
> 
> The first test cases that are processed through the Property Court will give a clear indication of how the law will be interpreted.
> 
> With the Government of Dubai owning many development companies, it is likely some favour will be on the side of the developers. Yet this is personal speculation
> 
> 
> 
> Infrastructure
> 
> Even with the slow down in development, infrastructure and the cost of building power stations, de-salination plants, district cooling plants, roads and bridges is a significant factor for consideration.
> 
> Currently even the developments that can be completed have implementation issues. Re-routing power has been already achieved but the main difficulty faced is increasing load further.
> 
> It continues to be a factor that cannot be ignored, as even the buildings under construction, may not have enough power or water supplied to them.
> 
> It is likely building regulations will increase and only green buildings being consider in future development. Cost of green buildings are higher which will also maintain higher selling prices as construction and design cost increase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Future of Dubai Property Market
> 
> 
> -	Some development have been cancelled
> 
> o	Jumeriah Gardens
> o	Mohammed Bin Rashid Gardens
> o	One Runway from new Airport
> o	Universe
> o	F1 World, Union Properties
> 
> 
> -	Some development will be shelved for an indefinite period due to other central developments with cancelled or vacant plots.
> 
> o	Dubai Waterfront
> o	Palm Deira
> o	Palm Jebal Ali
> o	Limitless phase 2-4 http://www.arabianbusiness.com/5537...of-land-are-ready-for-handover-to-developers-
> o Arabian Canal http://www.arabianbusiness.com/512919-arabian-canal-project-plots-available-soon
> o	Sama Dubai Lagoons Development
> o	DIFC phase 2
> o	Meydan
> o	City Arabia
> o	The World?
> 
> 
> -	Estimated percentage of available plots in Developed districts
> 
> o	JLT 20%
> o	Dubai Marina 15%
> o	Downtown Dubai 50%
> o	DIFC 20%
> o	Palm Jumeriah 20%
> o	Jumeriah Village 75%
> o	DIP 50%
> o	Sports City 45%
> o	International City Phase 1 30%
> o	International City Phase 2 90%
> o	DWC 95%
> o	DMC 80%
> o	Residential Complex 98%
> 
> o	Business Bay 75%
> ( 51 project can possibly be completed out of 198) See attached doc.
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=740000
> 
> 
> The Future of Dubai Property Market
> 
> In less developed master developments, sold land is already under dispute.
> 
> It is likely with new RERA regulation it impossible for this land to be developed under current ownership.
> 
> This land will be eventually resold with payment plans and buying conditions to only registered developers,
> 
> Master developments in districts not close to amenities or existing developments will be likely cancelled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 Key Development Zones
> 
> -	Emirates Road developments ( Low - Mid end )
> 
> -	Marina, JLT, Jumeriah Gardens ( Low - Mid End )
> 
> -	Downtown Burj Dubai, DIFC, Business Bay (Mid – High)
> 
> -	Palm Jumeriah, World Development (Mid - High End)
> 
> 
> Some districts will fight to survive as failed developments will haunt the surroundings. Remaining cheaper and less attractive to investors and developers alike.
> 
> With the restriction placed on developers, remaining developers focus will be on the mid – high end of development. It is unlikely for them to be associated with the lower end of the market.
> 
> I expect the Government of Dubai to be the most active in the low end using its existing developers, as it’s interest will be to complete what is already 25% started.
> 
> Private developers will go after land initially in mid-high end developments. They are likely to produce again high end products, marketed to the new wave of Tax migrants fleeing developed markets. The Tax free economy of Dubai will retain key benefits to the worlds elite looking to avoid issues in home countries.
> 
> ^^ Just some of my own expectations. The views expressed are my own.


Bumped

Also 1 new nugget of info hot from my sources.

Remember this strata law 26, some developers sold gross plus percentage of commen area or parking area. This under the strate law may be illegal, so you could argue the percentage as discount as under law 13 if you sell x and you make x - 10% you must reduce the sale price by 10%.

FYI


----------



## FWIW

Great post Sale!

Only minor thing is I think Marina is more low-mid-high as there is something for everyone there!


----------



## i love dubai

smussuw said:


> Wanting 2002 levels is not synonym to wanting Dubai to fail. I certainly want our current business model to fail though



Alot have happened to Dubai between 2002 and 2009. During these 7 years billions were spent to build the metro, Palm jumeriah, highways, not to mention the other many wonderful things that were built during those 7 years to make Dubai what it is now. SO if we see prices of 2002 that means Dubai is failing.
Cairo, Egypt which has its infastucure deteriorating between 2002 and 2007 witnessed a property price increase of about 100% during these 7 years.


----------



## 234sale

FWIW said:


> Great post Sale!
> 
> Only minor thing is I think Marina is more low-mid-high as there is something for everyone there!


From a developers perspective the marina would be aimed at mid end, I would go as far as to say south ridge, residences are the same as majara and sahab. But you would expect higher rents and sale prices on average in Downtown district, espically looking to the future.

For now JLT, JBR and the Marina are great as they are 80% or so finished as a development. Downtown, Difc an BB are a good 6 years behind. But if the plans become finished to spec, Downtown will shine brighter than the Marina, IMO.


----------



## FWIW

^^Big 'if' but I understand your what you mean! Hopefully, 6 years will also mean many marina projects finished etc.


----------



## mackie1964

FWIW said:


> ^^Big 'if' but I understand your what you mean! Hopefully, 6 years will also mean many marina projects finished etc.


With the cancellation and long term shelving of Dubai Waterfront, Palm Deira, Palm Jebal Ali, Arabian Canal, The World ……. Etc, waterside properties will remain at high premium in my opinion, there will be only one marina in Dubai for the next 10 years or so and prices within the Marina will always recover. Again, only my opinion. :cheers:

I had a really good offer from a cash buyer this morning for my unit in Timeplace but I rejected it only based on my theory above. I hope I don't regret it :lol:

He who dares Rodney as HT would say :cheers:


----------



## Spurs

mackie1964 said:


> With the cancellation and long term shelving of Dubai Waterfront
> 
> Iv heard a few times now. I was not aware the waterfront as a whole had been shelved. I was under the impression that projects in the madinat al arab (in the waterfront) were still going ahead also Bahdra and Veneto by Nakheel are still happening aren't they????
> 
> Really keen on knowing if this is not the case!


----------



## Wannaberich

mackie1964 said:


> With the cancellation and long term shelving of Dubai Waterfront, Palm Deira, Palm Jebal Ali, Arabian Canal, The World ……. Etc, waterside properties will remain at high premium in my opinion


This should also have some impact on Dubai prices in general.The less properties to be built over the next few years the better.
With the cancellation/putting on hold of so many other projects also,over supply should be swallowed up even quicker.
Hopefully many of the Dubailand residential projects have been/will be cancelled also.


----------



## glover

mackie,

good to see you are bullish again on dubai. another indication that sentiment is indeed changing. 

and no, you want regret declining that offer imo. you will get more if you wait until after cityscape in october if you still want to sell it. 



mackie1964 said:


> With the cancellation and long term shelving of Dubai Waterfront, Palm Deira, Palm Jebal Ali, Arabian Canal, The World ……. Etc, waterside properties will remain at high premium in my opinion, there will be only one marina in Dubai for the next 10 years or so and prices within the Marina will always recover. Again, only my opinion. :cheers:
> 
> I had a really good offer from a cash buyer this morning for my unit in Timeplace but I rejected it only based on my theory above. I hope I don't regret it :lol:
> 
> He who dares Rodney as HT would say :cheers:


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> If we look at established European markets why have these crashed by such significant levels?
> My answer to this, is that the process of the crash in property has been reduced by lending rates being forced lower by economic policy. Cash from Tax payers is being used to support banking institutions.


Interesting comments, most of which have all been quoted before on this thread by regular contributors, but a very comprehensive summary none the less.

A couple of points that I would like clarification on if you have the time are as follows;

You seem convinced that what has happened in Dubai over the last 8-12 months is a correction, and what has happened in European markets is a crash. I think you are somewhat confused as to what constitutes either of these scenarios and would suggest that as European markets are mature, and have sufficient indigenous population to support demand. When other sufficient parameters allow, such as funding, cost, pricing etc, these markets will return, hence correction would be the more accurate adjective to apply.

However Dubai in contrast, has a reducing ex pat community due to commercial re-structuring, an anti settlement visa program, a stagnant indigenous population, half empty completed buildings, an increasing supply of residential and commercial units for at least the next 5 years, and to top this off, they are still building more units, both residential and commercial.

Now than many people are witnessing that Dubai is an unregulated market (despite the face of RERA), Despite escrow accounts (being used ineffectively), and despite government backed companies (refusing to refund money for cancelled projects).

*How is Dubai’s real estate market better equipped to recover than that of the UK or Western Europe?*




234sale said:


> Estimated percentage of available plots in Developed districts
> 
> o JLT 20%
> o Dubai Marina 15%
> o Downtown Dubai 50%
> o DIFC 20%
> o Palm Jumeriah 20%
> o Jumeriah Village 75%
> o DIP 50%
> o Sports City 45%
> o International City Phase 1 30%
> o International City Phase 2 90%
> o DWC 95%
> o DMC 80%
> o Residential Complex 98%
> o Business Bay 75%


We are already seeing that capital values and rentals are holding up better in places like JLT and Dubai Marina. You say that the Marina only has around 15% of plots that are available whereas Downtown has 50%, Sports city has 45%, and Business Bay 75%. 

To me this will be a key driver as to what district will see the best returns in the next 3-5 year cycle. Those areas that are nearing completion and beginning to look less like a construction site will start to bear fruits as they can at least try and transform into liveable/workable communities. Those areas that are set to be construction zones for the longest have the biggest mountain to climb in my view. 




234sale said:


> 4 Key Development Zones
> 
> - Emirates Road developments ( Low - Mid end )
> 
> - Marina, JLT, Jumeriah Gardens ( Low - Mid End )
> 
> - Downtown Burj Dubai, DIFC, Business Bay (Mid – High)
> 
> - Palm Jumeriah, World Development (Mid - High End)
> 
> Some districts will fight to survive as failed developments will haunt the surroundings. Remaining cheaper and less attractive to investors and developers alike.
> 
> With the restriction placed on developers, remaining developers focus will be on the mid – high end of development. It is unlikely for them to be associated with the lower end of the market.
> 
> I expect the Government of Dubai to be the most active in the low end using its existing developers, as it’s interest will be to complete what is already 25% started.


The second thing that I would disagree with is your definition of what constitutes Low-Med-High End developments.

Are you talking about this from an engineers/architects construction professionals point of view, or a prospective purchaser? 

My point being an architect/engineer/construction professional, may feel a development is High–End if it is built by a superior construction company, uses the highest quality materials available, and is finished in the highest quality fixtures and fittings.

On the other hand a purchaser (home owner, investor), would probably value things like where is the nearest metro station, where is the nearest hotel/bar, where is the nearest supermarket, school, beach etc.

Proof of this can be seen in how the fortunes of areas like JLT and Dubai Marina versus Downtown Burj Dubai fared in the recent crash. JLT and the Marina holding up very well and DBD falling like the preverbal stone.

*Business parks are becoming ghost towns even in mature markets. Why do you think that a glorified business park like Business Bay would be a better investment than waterfront or beachfront living areas like Dubai Marina and JLT that can offer residents a lifestyle choice. Particularly as most of the civilized world is now moving away from offices and can work at home due to advances in technology?*



234sale said:


> Private developers will go after land initially in mid-high end developments. They are likely to produce again high end products, marketed to the new wave of Tax migrants fleeing developed markets. The Tax free economy of Dubai will retain key benefits to the worlds elite looking to avoid issues in home countries.


An issue you may not understand fully is that of domiciled residence. Let me explain. If all of these struggling western governments want to increase their tax cut, or reduce their tax flee (people moving to tax free locations). A stated aim of the recent UK budget, all they need to do is implement certain restrictions on their domicile rules. I have already seen proposals from the UK government to do this and trust me it is not pretty. It will not be announced until a new government gets elected in May 2010, but when it happens you can forget all your tax exiles coming to Dubai to escape UK taxes as UK taxes will be paid on worldwide income, just like it is for US citizens. Even if you are non-domiciled, you will still have to pay UK tax as Dubai will not allow ex pats to become residents of Dubai.

*In my view the safe play areas in Dubai are;*

*Districts nearest to completion*
*Locations near beaches*
*Developments near hotels*
*Developments near metro stops*
*Closer access to Abu Dhabi (high speed rail link will be announced within 5 years)*

Just my thoughts.


----------



## Ali_Syed

Because of the current market conditions, and the cost of building has dropped i.e. steel and cement is cheaper now. should the developer give us discount on the original prices. surely the original prices were also inflated because of the speculators.


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> Particularly as most of the civilized world is now moving away from offices and can work at home due to advances in technology?


Do you really believe that?It seems to me although a good many people are now working from home as opposed to 10/15 years ago,the vast majority still work from offices etc.
As for business parks,areas that have a good mixture of residential and office buildings offer the choice of living literally yards from your workplace
which is an advantage over places like BBay which is purely office.
This also makes areas like this decent investment options as you have a nearby workforce to whom you can sell or rent to.
Even better are the projects that consist of two towers,one for resi and the other for office.


----------



## Wannaberich

ARABIAN BUSINESS:
UAE real estate 'up to 50% dearer than Europe'
Tuesday, 28 April 2009 

PRICE DIFFERENCE: Using median income calculations, UAE real estate is up to 50 percent more expensive than Europe, says a research analyst. (Getty Images)Real estate in the UAE is up to 50 percent more expensive than in Europe if comparisons are based on median income estimates rather than GDP per capita, Al Mal Capital’s head of equity research has said.

Based on calculations using the gross domestic product (GDP) per capita as a key indicator of wealth, house prices in the UAE are roughly on par with those in Europe.

But when looking at the median income, the average price of a home in the country becomes up to 50 percent higher than in Europe, Robert McKinnon said.

The median household income is the number that splits income distribution into two equal parts, with one half of the cases falling below the median and one half ending up above it.

“If you take a GDP per capita number and assume that everybody is earning that money, it distorts [projections] when roughly around 80 percent of the wealth is in the top 10 percent of the population, and you only need one home,” said McKinnon.

At current price levels, the typical home owner in the UAE would still pay around 50 percent of his or her salary in mortgage costs, he said.

“If you assume a median income in the UAE of AED25,000 a month, and this is very generous, and you look at a medium, two bedroom place, it’s roughly AED1.5m. That is going to cost you somewhere around AED12,000 a month in mortgage payments.”

The median income is likely to be lower than AED25,000 given the high number of labour workers in the country, he added.

On a positive note, McKinnon said that a limited population decline may not necessarily be bad news for real estate developers.

“There is a bit of a misconception that population is demand. That is not necessarily the case. In reality, demand is the number of people that are willing and able to buy a home.

“They’re willing at a certain price, and as prices go up that takes people out of the demand equation, and that’s exactly what happened in Dubai last summer and a little later in Abu Dhabi.”

Al Mal Capital is forecasting UAE real estate prices to fall by another 10 to 15 percent before bottoming out, with a slightly larger decline in the Dubai market than in Abu Dhabi.


----------



## aviduser

FINALLY SENSE 

See my post several pages ago saying the same thing. WHY did it take so long to work out ?


----------



## AppleMac

High Times said:


> It will not be announced until a new government gets elected in May 2010, but when it happens you can forget all your tax exiles coming to Dubai to escape UK taxes as UK taxes will be paid on worldwide income, just like it is for US citizens. Even if you are non-domiciled, you will still have to pay UK tax as Dubai will not allow ex pats to become residents of Dubai.


How does that work? - I've notified the tax office that I have emigrated and am now resident in the UAE. Are you saying that whatever country I emigrate to the UK is going to want tax off me? - how would they enforce such a rule?


----------



## mackie1964

Some good posts on here lately. I was beginning to give up on this forum all together :cheers:


----------



## smussuw

This must be a reaction to my annoying posts :banana: lol


----------



## UAE+

*Market Data*

http://rebis.reidin.com/home.html


----------



## 234sale

FYI HT

Business Bay
60% Commercial, 25% Residential 15% Mixed use
Next to 
Downtown
10% Commercial, 70% Residential, 20% Mixed use 

Now the interesting point, it woul be possible for un-designed plots to convert to residential from commercial with the correct approvals.

Thus it still can be changed. 

Will get round to answering all your remarks in full, with simple explanations.


----------



## speculator

AppleMac said:


> How does that work? - I've notified the tax office that I have emigrated and am now resident in the UAE. Are you saying that whatever country I emigrate to the UK is going to want tax off me? - how would they enforce such a rule?


Especially if they cant find you. I really cant see how they could enforce that either especially if you are long term non UK domiciled.


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> FYI HT
> 
> Business Bay
> 60% Commercial, 25% Residential 15% Mixed use


I thought BB was all office towers.I would figure investing in one of the resi towers would therefore be a great investment.

Regards overall Dubai property prices.If prices as some predict fall to around less 60% off peak prices end of this year/early next,together with a weaker
dollar Dubai all of a sudden becomes a very cheap and attractive place to buy.
A 1 bed Marina appartment for say around 700.000aed,a 3 bed Ranches villa for say 1.7m,then those sort of prices should attract alot of buyers worldwide.
As properties get snapped up by overseas investors and locals,prices start moving up again.
Once its obvious the bottom has been reached,by then with bank lending well under way,buyers will realise theres no merit in waiting anymore and may enter the market in big numbers if the prices have dropped so much.Possibly this may even creating a mini-boom.
So basically the lower prices go the more this will bring the buyers out
so even if the Dubai market really goes to pieces in the long run this may bring it back up again and fast.
Just a thought.


----------



## 234sale

UK Tax - Residency and Domicile 
Written by Candour Consultancy 
Wednesday, 30 November 2005 
As far as the UK Inland Revenue is concerned, along with the Revenues of many other countries, you are considered to resident for tax purposes of you're in the country for 183 days or more per tax year. Days of arrival and departure are ignored. Additionally, if you go and work abroad for more than one year, you must not be back in the UK for more than 91 days, on average, in any 365 day period, for the duration of your time abroad. 

Another concept that many countries use is that of 'ordinarily resident'. This is the country that is your normal home, year on year, with no big foreign excursions. 

As such, you can be 'ordinarily resident' but not 'resident'. This is where you move overseas (or just go on a very long holiday) for a short time period -- a year or so. Even if you spend more than a tax year abroad, you can still be 'ordinarily resident' in the country that's your normal home. Like all rules governing taxation, the categories are never hard and fast. 

You can also be resident in more than one country at once, depending on how your time is split between them, and depending on what their Revenue rules are. Unless there is a double taxation agreement between the countries you are considered resident in, you could be caught twice for tax -- so get some advice. 

If you go and work abroad, you are considered not resident as long as you're away for more than one full tax year, and you don't spend more than 183 days in any one tax year back in the 'home' country or more than an average of 91 days per tax year over the duration of your years abroad. 

The UK Inland Revenue, though, makes exceptions to these rules if you have to return to the UK for 'compassionate reasons' in a tax year. That means the death or serious illness of a loved-one. They will not sting you if you just exceed the limit through no fault of your own.

What about my spouse?
So-called 'trailing spouses' are considered by the Revenue to be non-resident under similar rules to the main bread-winner -- that is, 183 days in or out of the country. 

What if I move abroad permanently -- buy a house, that sort of thing. Will I be caught in the UK tax net if I return to the UK regularly?
It depends how regularly. If you go abroad permanently, for a start you have to be able to convince the Revenue of it. Just buying a house is not enough, although it helps. You will still be caught for tax purposes if you return to the UK for more than 91 days per year overall. 

Does this apply to all occupations?
No. some jobs come under special rules. These include civil servants, members of the armed forces, EU employees, workers in oil and gas exploration and sailors in the Merchant Navy. 

So what is the difference between all this residency stuff and 'domicile'?
{mosgoogle right}For a start, watch out for this one because according to the Revenue's own guidelines, "It is not possible to list all the factors that affect your domicile". But basically, there are two 'domicile' concepts:   One is where you have your permanent home (not the same as residency, since that is where you spend your time for tax purposes). 

The second is your 'domicile of origin', which is where your father's permanent home was. So, you could have been born in France, but if your father was English, your domicile of origin is Britain. 

They sound like the same thing!
Domicile and residency usually go together, it's true. But for certain taxation purposes -- the taxation of securities income, for instance, or for inheritance tax -- your particular mix of residency, ordinary residency, domicile and domicile of origin will matter. 

So I'm stuck with the domicile of my father whether I like it or not?
No, you can change it once you reach 16. But you have to convince the Revenue that you really have left the UK for foreign shores permanently. Just living abroad for a long time may not be enough 

In Summary 
Generally, if expatriates work abroad for more than one full tax year, they become non-resident for tax purposes in their home country. This allows them to enjoy a number of tax advantages. For instance, normally they would not pay income tax in their home country and instead pay income tax at the local, often lower rate; they also avoid paying capital gains tax on any chargeable gains made on assets acquired and disposed during that period of non-residence. However, failing to plan ahead for a hasty departure could leave ex-pats with heavy losses.

Whilst expatriates often enjoy significant financial benefits working abroad, failing to transfer their assets out of the foreign country in the most tax-effective way could result in significant losses. Even if ex-pats are not immediately thinking of returning to their home country, political instability has led to an increase in the possibility of a sudden relocation and they should definitely be planning how their financial assets will be transferred.    

Top Five Tax Tips 
If you return home before a full tax year has been completed, returning ex-pats should consider taking a holiday in a non-UK country to extend the period out of the country until after the start of the next UK tax year. Doing so will qualify them for non-resident status. Otherwise a concession has to be applied for in the UK to avoid paying UK rates of tax.
Dispose of and reacquire any assets which are sitting at a capital gain immediately prior to returning to the UK. In this way the gain is crystallised during the period of non-residency, avoiding UK capital gains tax. All gains arising during the period of non-resident ownership would effectively be wiped clean. This could apply to stocks, shares and property.
Do not dispose of any capital assets which are sitting at a loss since such losses, if realised after they resume UK residence, could be set against future taxable gains. 
Close any interest-bearing bank accounts and reopen them immediately before returning to the UK. This will crystallise the crediting of interest to the account during the period of non-UK residence.
Whilst working abroad, open an offshore bank account where interest will be credited gross - i.e. with no UK tax deducted at source.

http://britishexpats.com/articles/finance/uk-tax-residency-and-domicile/

My understanding is similar

But I have a personal chartered accountant who does all my books for me.
I own a UK Limited company, but also worked full time in Dubai.


----------



## bizzybonita

Visa law for realty buyers by year end 

on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

A law that would clarify the rules on issuing residency visas to property buyers in Dubai will be released within this year, Emirates Business has learnt.

"We believe this has to be cleared. We raised it to the government and the government came back and said there is a law that will come very *soon *and we feel it has to come," said Hamad Buamim, Director-General of DCCI.

"The law will clarify who deserves a visa in terms of their investment in the real estate. We don't know when it will be out but the government says it will be *soon*. I think *soon *means within this year."

According to Hisham Abdullah Al Shirawi, Second Vice-Chairman of Dubai Chamber, the law has to come via a decree issued by the government, seconded by the Ministry of Interior and completely approved by the immigration.

Previously, most real estate advertisements boasted of 99-year visa for purchase of freehold property. But Al Shirawi said such guarantees are not within the jurisdiction of any property firm. "The government said there would be a certain arrangement but there was no specific law," said Al Shirawi.

"Some of the developers just extended their promises for certain commercial benefits without having any legal back-up to substantiate their claims," said Al Shirawi.

He further urged the government to have an official spokesperson to deal with the visa issues. "I do advocate the concept that we should have an official spokesman, who addresses these issues in a very clear and transparent manner."

Even from the start of freehold concept, ownership of property does not guarantee residence visa, KK Sarachandra Bose, partner at Dar Al Adalah Advocates and Legal Consultants, said.

Via Business24-7.ae


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai remains the most expensive emerging property market in the world despite the market slowdown and falling prices caused by the global credit crunch, according to Reidin, a consultancy.

In Reidin’s latest report, the city ranked first among 59 cities in 34 emerging markets, with the highest average residential property prices.

Dubai’s average rate as of February was about US$7,000 (Dh25,690) a square metre, the company said.

It was followed by Singapore, with an average sales price of $6,600 a sq metre, with Moscow at $6,000, Hong Kong $5,400, Beijing $4,500 and Tel Aviv $4,200. 
But prices in Dubai continue to decline. Colliers International, a property consultancy, said residential sale prices in Dubai had dropped by 41 per cent in the first quarter of this year, compared with the fourth quarter of last year.

According to the Colliers House Price Index report, prices have seen a year-on-year decline for the first time since records began.

Dubai residences in the first quarter of this year were on average 34 per cent cheaper than in the first quarter of last year. 

The average price in the first quarter of this year was Dh1,122 per sq foot for apartments, Dh961 per sq ft for villas and Dh855 per sq ft for townhouses.

Colliers said the lack of available finance, job insecurity among expatriates and the lack of transparency about project delays and postponements were reasons for the decline.
Another factor is the change in the profile of buyers.

The report said *the first quarter had seen the arrival of professional investors *who were more focused on returns than speculative price rises. “The investors who are in the market now are a new breed of entity that we have not seen previously,” said John Davis, the chief executive of Colliers International.

“We have been through the speculation stage to the end-user stage. The end-users now have dropped out of the market due to the lack of finance available from the banks.”

*According to the report, rental yields have become one of the dominant markers setting price, while it was a secondary concern during the boom.*

“What we are seeing with the March prices is that banks, in terms of mortgage finance, have come back into the market,” Mr Davis said. “Availability of finance has become a little bit easier.”

On a monthly basis, the report showed that although January had seen the largest decline, down 26 per cent from the previous month, and February saw a fall of 20 per cent, residential prices last month were stable.

But Mr Davis said it was still too soon to determine a trend. 
“The next quarter could throw up a mixed bag of results because we have got the school holidays coming up, Ramadan, Eid,” he said. 
“We will start to see some meaningful results again, or trend, when we have a look at the fourth quarter of this year.”










Now reaching 9 o'clock but Dubai needs more rental demand from long term end users.


----------



## dbxdude

Wannaberich said:


> I thought BB was all office towers.I would figure investing in one of the resi towers would therefore be a great investment.
> 
> Regards overall Dubai property prices.If prices as some predict fall to around less 60% off peak prices end of this year/early next,together with a weaker
> dollar Dubai all of a sudden becomes a very cheap and attractive place to buy.
> A 1 bed Marina appartment for say around 700.000aed,a 3 bed Ranches villa for say 1.7m,then those sort of prices should attract alot of buyers worldwide.
> As properties get snapped up by overseas investors and locals,prices start moving up again.
> Once its obvious the bottom has been reached,by then with bank lending well under way,buyers will realise theres no merit in waiting anymore and may enter the market in big numbers if the prices have dropped so much.Possibly this may even creating a mini-boom.
> So basically the lower prices go the more this will bring the buyers out
> so even if the Dubai market really goes to pieces in the long run this may bring it back up again and fast.
> Just a thought.


Nice theory.... Detroit should be a good buy then.... sadly not cause it no longer has any business.....


----------



## Wannaberich

dbxdude said:


> Nice theory.... Detroit should be a good buy then.... sadly not cause it no longer has any business.....


Very strange comparison.


----------



## Rob Timpie

Ali_Syed said:


> Because of the current market conditions, and the cost of building has dropped i.e. steel and cement is cheaper now. should the developer give us discount on the original prices. surely the original prices were also inflated because of the speculators.


I'm affraid that's the risk of investing in real estate, my friend...
Some you win, some you lose. I just wonder how investors will come out who invested for 1800,-/sqft. hno:


----------



## iced

234sale said:


> From a developers perspective the marina would be aimed at mid end, I would go as far as to say south ridge, residences are the same as majara and sahab. But you would expect higher rents and sale prices on average in Downtown district, espically looking to the future.
> 
> For now JLT, JBR and the Marina are great as they are 80% or so finished as a development. Downtown, Difc an BB are a good 6 years behind. But if the plans become finished to spec, Downtown will shine brighter than the Marina, IMO.


Ur last post was very good. Think it will take a lot longer 4 downtown 2 b built so maybe the Marina will be prime location especially as a lot of it is slowly being completed


----------



## iced

High Times said:


> Interesting comments, most of which have all been quoted before on this thread by regular contributors, but a very comprehensive summary none the less.
> 
> A couple of points that I would like clarification on if you have the time are as follows;
> 
> You seem convinced that what has happened in Dubai over the last 8-12 months is a correction, and what has happened in European markets is a crash. I think you are somewhat confused as to what constitutes either of these scenarios and would suggest that as European markets are mature, and have sufficient indigenous population to support demand. When other sufficient parameters allow, such as funding, cost, pricing etc, these markets will return, hence correction would be the more accurate adjective to apply.
> 
> However Dubai in contrast, has a reducing ex pat community due to commercial re-structuring, an anti settlement visa program, a stagnant indigenous population, half empty completed buildings, an increasing supply of residential and commercial units for at least the next 5 years, and to top this off, they are still building more units, both residential and commercial.
> 
> Now than many people are witnessing that Dubai is an unregulated market (despite the face of RERA), Despite escrow accounts (being used ineffectively), and despite government backed companies (refusing to refund money for cancelled projects).
> 
> *How is Dubai’s real estate market better equipped to recover than that of the UK or Western Europe?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are already seeing that capital values and rentals are holding up better in places like JLT and Dubai Marina. You say that the Marina only has around 15% of plots that are available whereas Downtown has 50%, Sports city has 45%, and Business Bay 75%.
> 
> To me this will be a key driver as to what district will see the best returns in the next 3-5 year cycle. Those areas that are nearing completion and beginning to look less like a construction site will start to bear fruits as they can at least try and transform into liveable/workable communities. Those areas that are set to be construction zones for the longest have the biggest mountain to climb in my view.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second thing that I would disagree with is your definition of what constitutes Low-Med-High End developments.
> 
> Are you talking about this from an engineers/architects construction professionals point of view, or a prospective purchaser?
> 
> My point being an architect/engineer/construction professional, may feel a development is High–End if it is built by a superior construction company, uses the highest quality materials available, and is finished in the highest quality fixtures and fittings.
> 
> On the other hand a purchaser (home owner, investor), would probably value things like where is the nearest metro station, where is the nearest hotel/bar, where is the nearest supermarket, school, beach etc.
> 
> Proof of this can be seen in how the fortunes of areas like JLT and Dubai Marina versus Downtown Burj Dubai fared in the recent crash. JLT and the Marina holding up very well and DBD falling like the preverbal stone.
> 
> *Business parks are becoming ghost towns even in mature markets. Why do you think that a glorified business park like Business Bay would be a better investment than waterfront or beachfront living areas like Dubai Marina and JLT that can offer residents a lifestyle choice. Particularly as most of the civilized world is now moving away from offices and can work at home due to advances in technology?*
> 
> 
> 
> An issue you may not understand fully is that of domiciled residence. Let me explain. If all of these struggling western governments want to increase their tax cut, or reduce their tax flee (people moving to tax free locations). A stated aim of the recent UK budget, all they need to do is implement certain restrictions on their domicile rules. I have already seen proposals from the UK government to do this and trust me it is not pretty. It will not be announced until a new government gets elected in May 2010, but when it happens you can forget all your tax exiles coming to Dubai to escape UK taxes as UK taxes will be paid on worldwide income, just like it is for US citizens. Even if you are non-domiciled, you will still have to pay UK tax as Dubai will not allow ex pats to become residents of Dubai.
> 
> *In my view the safe play areas in Dubai are;*
> 
> *Districts nearest to completion*
> *Locations near beaches*
> *Developments near hotels*
> *Developments near metro stops*
> *Closer access to Abu Dhabi (high speed rail link will be announced within 5 years)*
> 
> Just my thoughts.


good debate between u and 234 sale which is providing lots of useful info and food for thought. hopefully it will continue without handbags being thrown around.

I think you are right and dubai has witnessed a crash whereas the mature European markets are seeing corrections. Once they recover than Dubai will recover and provide better returns. Could b a while though.

If the $ tanks which i think it will then Dubai will recover quickly. I think the US printing money is going to help in this process.

Also agree liveable communities will fare better than construction sites.

Your other points/criteria are spot on if history is anything to go by. The big question is when do things start to stabalise and towards the end of year as mentioned by others maybe correct. My own belief is middle of 2010.

I think that there has been a lot of contribution by posters and the impression that i am getting is that a lot of people here are investors from an owner occupier perspective. This really does bode well for Dubai's recovery whenever it comes.


----------



## Mistermark

I believe High Times is right in saying Dubai has experienced a crash while the UK has had a correction. FWIW I think the US experience falls between the two, with some areas experiencing a crash and others a relatively mild correction.

IMHO the principal difference between the two markets is that the UK economy has a lot more stabilisers built in that affect both the up- and down-swings. Our population didn't grow as fast as Dubai's during the good years, nor has it fallen so fast in the past six months. Equally, people resident in the UK are taxed, quite heavily, affecting what they can pay for property, and it's a market driven by ownership rather than renting.

Having said all of this, I believe a crash, though more brutal, is swifter than a correction, and as others are saying, there seems to be evidence of prices in Dubai having reached some level of stability. I've been trying to buy a completed unit in the marina and have missed out on two good ones because they sold before I could do anything about it. In contrast, in Jan/Feb property was almost unsaleable. 

I'm not saying that there won't be a further downward dip, possibly between the end of the school term and the end of Ramadan, perhaps driven by falls in rental yields/increases in voids, though actually I'm not at all sure there will be one, because I suspect we'll soon see the Dollar weakening and this will make it easier for those without existing Dirham balances to buy, but right now I'm seeing prices stable and sales happening fairly quickly.

In contrast, I still think the UK has further to fall. The first quarter's GDP decline was worse than expected, unemployment is likely to rise to or beyond the upper end of estimates and this will drive repossessions. So it wouldn't surprise me if, peak to trough, there turns out not to be so much difference in the percentage falls in the UK and Dubai property markets - the only difference is that the UK will take perhaps three years (summer 2007 to summer 2010) to drop 35-50 percent, whereas Dubai dropped by, on average, 50 percent in the six months between October 2008 and March 2009.


----------



## aviduser

*The UK has further to go*

Prices have MUCH further to go. The survey on affordability is the key here. If we eliminate all speculators and cash buyers we are left with wealthy ex-pats with good SECURE jobs. If they have come from the UK (for example) where the average HOUSE price is 165,000 pound they are going to baulk at paying anything over that for a 3-4 bed Villa. It doesn't matter that it's by the sea or has a good view they just won't do it. 

Rents certainly are going to be a factor that decides whether to buy or rent. AS rents continue to fall it will actually be more expensive to BUY a place than it is to rent. Some argue rent is dead money but in a falling or stagnant market the other costs involved will mean the risk/reward ratio will favour rental. 

Now all of this depends on ANYONE with any money being left in the country. 

If all the well paid people from all over the world leave then you are left with the Arabs from the region as your next big target market followed by a few wealthy Indians, Iranians and Pakistanis. How big is that market. Would they buy here ? are they prepared to WORK here. 

Before 2001 Dubai was a trading post and port best known for smuggling and money laundering. If it reverts back to this and let's be honest there is a very REAL possibility that it could then just how much high to medium end property will be needed ?


----------



## smussuw

Can we stop talking about money laundering without backing it with proof :rant:


----------



## Wannaberich

aviduser said:


> Before 2001 Dubai was a trading post and port best known for smuggling and money laundering. If it reverts back to this and let's be honest there is a very REAL possibility that it could


You're a funny guy.Ever done stand-up :lol:


----------



## Toofif

*Dubai Lawyer Recommendations*

Can anyone recommend any Property Lawyers in Dubai?

Please PM me details.


----------



## True Blue

aviduser said:


> ......It doesn't matter that it's by the sea or has a good view .........


^^ My favourite quote,:lol::rofl:

You also missed the point that a high portion of people who buy in Dubai are already very wealthy and don't need to serve at McDonalds to pay for their properties.


----------



## 234sale

iced said:


> Ur last post was very good. Think it will take a lot longer 4 downtown 2 b built so maybe the Marina will be prime location especially as a lot of it is slowly being completed


2015, At 6 years for bb / dt to be where the marina /jlt is today.


----------



## googly

High Times said:


> ....
> You seem convinced that what has happened in Dubai over the last 8-12 months is a correction, and what has happened in European markets is a crash.
> ....


Can you tell us the definition of a crash and a correction? To me, both markets have either corrected or crashed. Let me explain from a different angle this time. 

Say I live in Timbukto. I invest 100K pounds in the UK, US and Dubai (all at their peak times). In terms of pounds, my investment will be worth the same amount (i.e. about 75K pounds) in all three places as of today. Why would I then call one market a crash and the other a correction? 

Of course I can say that the decline in the UK was because of one reason and the decline in Dubai was for another reason. That might help me predict which market will recover quicker. 

But both markets have their pros and cons. The UK market is more mature, has a stable population, BUT IT HAS VERY HIGH TAXES (upto 50%). The Dubai market has ZERO TAX, but is immature, less regulated and with an unstable population. Which market recovers quicker is anybody's guess. We will know how the cookie crumbles soon. :cheers:


----------



## Naz UK

There's years of evidence by the shitload that Dubai was and still is being used by certain elements for the purpose of money laundering! hno: Do you really need proof????


----------



## Ali_Syed

When i bought it was 940 sqft. i guess its not too bad. sports city out of some other areas in Dubai has good potential, as its going to be a sports related commercial district.


----------



## Wannaberich

googly said:


> Say I live in Timbukto. I invest 100K pounds in the UK, US and Dubai (all at their peak times). In terms of pounds, my investment will be worth the same amount (i.e. about 75K pounds) in all three places as of today. Why would I then call one market a crash and the other a correction?


Your investments are only worth the same if the property prices have dropped by the same percentage.They haven't.
If you invested 100K in UK property one year ago,as UK prices have dropped/corrected by around 25%,your investment is now worth 75K.
In Dubai prices have dropped/crashed 50% so obviously your investment is now worth 50K.
The US I dont know.
Regards what is a correction and what is a crash,everyone would call 50% a crash,some would call the same for 20%.Whos to say.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think Dubai had a correction during the time of the global crisis. Therefore was a crash. Dubai was due for a correction just before the global crisis happened. The crisis just speeded up the correction and made it much worse. A boom is due in Dubai a while after the banking crisis is over so I would think prices will increase quite fast. The crisis will have pushed the property clock to 9 o'clock (decreasing values, growing rental yields), Dubai will boom again at 12 o'clock.


----------



## googly

Wannaberich said:


> Your investments are only worth the same if the property prices have dropped by the same percentage...


You arent comparing apples with apples. What matters is how many GBP I would get if I were to sell my 100K GBP properties in all three countries. If I get the SAME amount of GBP from all three of my investments, (after currency converstions), I wouldnt say one market crashed and the other didnt. 

You cannot simply ignore currency fluctuations in the last 6-8 months as they also played a role in the crash/correction. 

After the Dubai market "crashed", I got a lot of emails/calls from Dubai realtors (of UK origin) advising me to invest in the UK as the GBP had devalued by 25% and the property market had tanked. The idea was that the property market would recover soon and the GBP would also climb back thereby resulting in huge profits. 

Unfortunately for the real estate agents, most of the investors thought otherwise. Most people think that the property market is going to recover first in the US and then in the UK/Dubai/elsewhere. Once the recovery takes place, it would be better to hold property in a place where the govt doesnt take away upto 50% of your capital gains.


----------



## Wannaberich

googly said:


> You cannot simply ignore currency fluctuations in the last 6-8 months as they also played a role in the crash/correction.
> 
> .


You didnt mention currency exchange rates.You need to be clearer.
If you brought your £50K in dirhams to the UK,then YOU havent lost 50% as the dirham is stronger against the pound from last year.


----------



## smussuw

Naz UK said:


> There's years of evidence by the shitload that Dubai was and still is being used by certain elements for the purpose of money laundering! hno: Do you really need proof????


I always hear outsiders blabbering about it but never got a proof.


----------



## aviduser

We all know what a realistic price for a place is we just don't want to accept the reality of it. The report on affordability posted a couple of pages ago tells you where the prices HAVE to go. 

They estimated a MEDIAN income of 25,000 Dhs They also said this was a HIGH estimate. Now simply wait for the banks to start lending and see what multiple they offer lenders and there you have your floor. 

Like I outlined before the average person earning that sort of money will be older, with a family and will expect a Villa should they move here. 

These people if coming from Western Europe or the USA WON'T have much collateral in their houses because of corrections in their home markets, therefore they won't have big deposits, but let's say they HAVE to have 25% to even think of buying the we have.

25K a month implies 300,000 a year salary so you are lent 3-4 times that amount plus you need a deposit of 25% so that will decide the house prices. 

I have edited this post as I implied you could only get 25K x 3-4 clearly that is **** all I was thinking in UK pounds as 25K is the AVERAGE YEARLY income DUH !!!


----------



## tehsin123

*S&P places ratings on Dubai GREs on CreditWatch Negative*

(The following statement was released by the ratings agency) 
April 30 - Standard & Poor's Ratings Services today said it had placed the ratings on the following Dubai-based government-related entities (GREs) on CreditWatch with negative implications: DIFC Investments LLC, DP World Ltd. <DPW.DI>, Jebel Ali Free Zone (FZE), the Dubai Multi Commodities Centre Authority (DMCC), Dubai Holding Commercial Operations Group LLC (DHCOG), and Emaar Properties PJSC <EMAR.DU> (collectively, "the Rated GREs"). In addition, we placed the notes issued by Thor Asset Purchase (Cayman) Ltd. (Thor), which are securitized by cash flows from a revolving pool of existing and future receivables originated by Dubai Electricity and Water Authority (DEWA; not rated), as well as the notes issued by JAFZ Sukuk. (collectively, "The Notes"), on CreditWatch with negative implications (see Ratings List below). 
"The CreditWatch placements reflect our opinion of the likelihood of downgrades of the Rated GREs and The Notes if the potential for extraordinary government support to the Rated GREs and The Notes is not affirmed by the government of Dubai," Standard & Poor's credit analyst Farouk Soussa said. "The need for Dubai government support is potentially increasing in the face of deteriorating fundamentals for some of the Rated GREs." 
The action results from our learning that a review of debt strategy at Nakheel (not rated), a material subsidiary of government-owned Dubai World (also not rated) and a key Dubai-based GRE, may include the possibility of a debt exchange. Recent media reports indicate that Nakheel is opening a dialogue with existing holders of its $3.5 billion sukuk coming due in December 2009, with a view to restructuring the debt. Standard & Poor's has discussed these reports with Dubai World and has been told that "all options" in dealing with outstanding liabilities are being considered as part of an ongoing review, including a restructuring. 
Standard & Poor's has also invited comment from the government of Dubai, which has declined to either refute the possibility of a debt restructuring at any of its Rated GREs or to provide clear assurances that all debt obligations of the Rated GREs will be met in a full and timely manner as per their original terms. 
The primary reason the mere possibility of a debt restructuring in an unrated Dubai-based GRE has been sufficient to trigger a review of all our Rated GREs and The Notes is due to the fact that such a possibility stands at odds with our prior expectation that the government of Dubai is committed to providing extraordinary support to its key GREs, including the Rated GREs, in order to allow them to service their respective obligations in a full and timely manner. This expectation is based in part on repeated representations to Standard & Poor's and to the public by senior government officials and other highly placed individuals, that the government of Dubai is committed to providing such extraordinary support. 
In accordance with our published criteria, a GRE is rated between the inclusive bounds formed by the GRE's stand-alone credit profile and the government rating, with the placement along this rating spectrum a function of our assessment of the potential for extraordinary government support (see "Rating Government-Related Entities: A Primer," published on June 14, 2006, on RatingsDirect). All of the Rated GREs reflect government creditworthiness more than stand-alone credit profiles, though this may shift should the government's support commitment ebbs. In our view, the consideration of a debt restructuring in any key GRE, particularly if it were deemed to be "distressed", increases the uncertainty as to Dubai's intention to provide adequate support in times of stress. 

"At this stage, we have not had confirmation as to Nakheel or the government's intentions with respect to Nakheel's outstanding sukuk. The CreditWatch placement will hold for the duration of our review, which will focus on confirming these intentions, and then assessing the impact this may or may not have on our view of the likelihood of extraordinary government support with respect to The Notes, and each Rated GRE and its respective obligations," Mr. Soussa said. "We will resolve the CreditWatch placement once the analysis is complete. There is a significant likelihood that the review may result in the downgrade of one or more Rated GREs or The Notes by one or more notches, depending on our assessment of the likelihood of support on a case-by-case basis, and on the stand-alone creditworthiness of each Rated GRE and its respective obligations." 


So where are recovery signs ??hno:


----------



## AITU

aviduser said:


> We all know what a realistic price for a place is we just don't want to accept the reality of it. The report on affordability posted a couple of pages ago tells you where the prices HAVE to go.
> 
> They estimated a MEDIAN income of 25,000 Dhs They also said this was a HIGH estimate. Now simply wait for the banks to start lending and see what multiple they offer lenders and there you have your floor.
> 
> Like I outlined before the average person earning that sort of money will be older, with a family and will expect a Villa should they move here.
> 
> These people if coming from Western Europe or the USA WON'T have much collateral in their houses because of corrections in their home markets, therefore they won't have big deposits, but let's say they HAVE to have 25% to even think of buying the we have.
> 
> 25K x5 +25%= Price of 3-4 bed villas. Mark my words this will happen


^^I spent that in the Buddha Bar last night. I think your calculations are slightly wrong. Should there be at least a x12 in there somewhere, or do you mean rental price?


----------



## Wannaberich

aviduser said:


> We all know what a realistic price for a place is we just don't want to accept the reality of it. The report on affordability posted a couple of pages ago tells you where the prices HAVE to go.
> 
> They estimated a MEDIAN income of 25,000 Dhs They also said this was a HIGH estimate. Now simply wait for the banks to start lending and see what multiple they offer lenders and there you have your floor.
> 
> Like I outlined before the average person earning that sort of money will be older, with a family and will expect a Villa should they move here.
> 
> These people if coming from Western Europe or the USA WON'T have much collateral in their houses because of corrections in their home markets, therefore they won't have big deposits, but let's say they HAVE to have 25% to even think of buying the we have.
> 
> 25K x5 +25%= Price of 3-4 bed villas. Mark my words this will happen


Reports like that are pointless when they refer to a place like Dubai where a large percentage of buyers are or have been foreign investors.


----------



## Cayman

AITU said:


> ^^I spent that in the Buddha Bar last night. I think your calculations are slightly wrong. Should there be at least a x12 in there somewhere, or do you mean rental price?


I do assume that the amount should have a "X12" to reflect the annual income and it works out to 1.875M.

Springs 3M and 3Es (both 3 bed +1 townhouses) are already available at this price.


----------



## aviduser

Wannabe you keep saying cash buyers and the like where the hell are they NOW. 

You think the 30,000 properties released in the next 18 months are going to be taken ALL by cash buyers and foreign investors, come on. There were not enough of these in the good times. If what you were saying WAS true then this banking crisis and banks not lending should have made no difference to the boom in Dubai as everyone was rich and buying in cash, or they lived somewhere else and were buying in cash. 

It doesn't really add up does it ?


In the UK you are generally loaned 3-4 times your YEARLY salary (sorry I didn't make that clear above apologies now corrected), things went pear shaped in the UK because people started borrowing more 5-6 times OR as the banks seem to do here started talking affordability. For example you were loaned up to 70% of your monthly salary. So if you earnt 25,000 Dhs a month you could get a mortgage where the payment was up to 70% of that. 

MINUS other liabilities like car loans. So a maximum payment per month on 25K a month would be 17,500 MINUS any car loans so about 15K Dhs for example. 

It was because of this I was able to secure a mortgage of 2 Million DHs. 

In the UK I would only have gotton about 1 Million Dhs. 

And I am on an OK salary. Hence the overpriced property. The BOOM here NEEDED the complicity of the banks, if they had kept multiples to sensible levels levels we would not have seen prices rise so far. 


Right so that was in the good times, like I say what multiple they decide to lend NOW will decide the prices. 

How can it not UNLESS by some miracle there is suddenly a boom and CASH buyers and speculators return. But why would they, history doesn't always repeat it's self and as people found in Tokyo prices sometimes NEVER return to their previous highs. 

(yeah I know this aint Tokyo but it is an "example" of a property bubble that never returned to previous highs, clearly though Tokyo has MUCH better market fundamentals than Dubai which tells me that prices, here, will not only keep on falling BUT if the exodus continues yields, rents and prices will fall to prices once unthinkable only a year ago)


----------



## Wannaberich

aviduser said:


> Wannabe you keep saying cash buyers and the like where the hell are they NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> i which tells me that prices, here, will not only keep on falling BUT if the exodus continues yields, rents and prices will fall to prices once unthinkable only a year ago)


Cash buyers?what are u talking about?Its early days and people will prob wait a while till they know for sure the market has bottomed out.
As for prices falling,like I said,if they go down a good deal more and the dollar weakens which it should do over the next 6/12 months,then there will be many 'bargains' to be had in Dubai.
Lets say disaster really hit Dubai and a 1 bed Marina unit was 500.000aed,
a 3bed Ranches villa 1.2m,these prices would bring alot of buyers back to Dubai for sure.Basically the cheaper it goes the more buyers there will be and the quicker the population will increase as people appreciate the affordability
of Dubai together with what could be a great lifestyle.This in turn could push the prices back up.When you think of the logic in this I think its a very valid point.
Alot of times good comes from bad and this could be one of them.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai property will continue to appeal to "pure investors"*

Despite the fact property prices in Dubai have plummeted by 41 per cent in the first quarter of 2009 compared to the last quarter of 2008, the emirate could present opportunities for "pure investors" to purchase "significantly *undervalued*" properties, according to an industry executive.

Robin Wilson, head of overseas at Rightmove.co.uk, said Dubai's infrastructure, climate and "vibrancy" are all advantages for investors and people who were "actively considering" making a property purchase before the recession may find their money stretching further in the current climate.

"I suspect pure investors will increasingly return to Dubai as it may present opportunities if the market over-corrects and property becomes significantly undervalued," he said, adding that prices are expected to correct and show signs of growth by the end of next year.

According to figures from Colliers International, first-quarter property prices in Dubai have fallen by 34 per cent this year, compared to the same three-month period in 2008.

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/en-gb/pricesnews/investnews/article.htm?ArticleID=19148849


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai/Abu Dhabi rated the best cities in Mid East*

The two top cities in the Middle East region for quality of life have been listed as Dubai and Abu Dubai.

The two cities have been ranked in the latest edition of a global survey by investment services provider Mercer.

Dubai has moved up six places in the annual survey, from 83 last year to 77 this year, due to Dubai's improved transport and road facilities, its international airport expansion, and its telecommunication and consumer facilities.

Abu Dhabi has been ranked 84th this year, from 87 in 2008. 

The increase in recreational facilities, international schools, and the development of the Etihad air service and airport were given as the reasons for the boost in ratings.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> Despite the fact property prices in Dubai have plummeted by 41 per cent in the first quarter of 2009 compared to the last quarter of 2008, the emirate could present opportunities for "pure investors" to purchase "significantly *undervalued*" properties, according to an industry executive.
> 
> "I suspect pure investors will increasingly return to Dubai as it may present opportunities if the market over-corrects and property becomes significantly undervalued," he said, adding that prices are expected to correct and show signs of growth by the end of next year.


Just for you Aviduser.


----------



## smussuw

Still overpriced, to me at least.


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> Still overpriced, to me at least.


Yet the lower buying and rental prices go,the more affordable it will be for your dreaded ex-pats to move to Dubai.
So in reality,you want them to come.
Cool.


----------



## aviduser

*Written by an agent*

So you can't take it seriously. 

OK back to prices, just because something is CHEAP doesn't mean people are going to buy it. Stuff was cheap in woolworths it didn't stop them going under.

Certainly when prices are really cheap, when prices to buy match or are less than renting then sure I expect some people in well paid jobs will jump in. 

The problem with property very much depends on how many people are going to be left after this bust. If numbers are significantly down then there simply won't be the people to purchase the properties. 

Say I am an investor with CASH prices go down more and I can pick up a 2 bed in the marina cheap. Say 650,000 DHS. 

OK next step RENT IT. How difficult will this be ? there is certainly an very strong argument that the marina is very well placed and will be easily rent able but again, will there be enough people to rent ?. And how low will those rents go ?

Fair rent for a 2 bed ? In London I paid 8K Dhs a month for a big 3 bed 6 miles from Westminster. 

Lets say rents fall to 96,000 Dhs a year u buy the place for 650,000 yield is 14% EXCELLENT. Double the price to 1.3 million rent stays the same 7% yield EXCELLENT. SO there u go my prediction 1.3 million marina.  

Problem is though as I have said families want Villas, We are starting to see 140,000 for Villas, this pushes down 2 beds but more particularly 3 beds and forget about penthouses or 4 beds WHATS THE POINT !!. A decent two bed can be shared split the rent. 

I can see a point where the Emrati's move into the market in big numbers buying up super cheap (read fairly priced) places and renting them for decent yields.

The major problem with this collapse apart from the house prices is the bad experience many people have had with the country. I have heard people say IF things get going again, and of course that's a big IF ! then people will come back to Dubai. But will they ?

So many horror stories abound that Dubai has now come to stand for a by word for broken dreams. I fear that people who were fired, treated badly by employers, left with small debts or LARGE debts won't ever come back. 

Plus as we all know Dubai was a victim of it's own success. Infrastructure wasn't upto the job but more importantly schools were not up to the job. 

Horror stories from Dubai are a bit like viral videos they spread quickly, the more people came here the quicker people found out things were not as they seemed. 

Tax free income sounds great until you have to pay half of it in rent, then another third on school fees. 

The market might recover never say never, we have seen an amazing bull run in stocks in the UK. BUT again, I say Dubai needs to do sooo much more to entice people back. I really think more than lending, credit and all the other stuff it will require DUBAI to win back the HEARTS of people with GENUINE improvements not PR shit before ANY sort of recovery will happen.

fucking hell I ramble let's see whats happens


----------



## smussuw

Wannaberich said:


> Yet the lower buying and rental prices go,the more affordable it will be for your dreaded ex-pats to move to Dubai.
> So in reality,you want them to come.
> Cool.


But now they will be under our mercy because they will end up renting from us :laugh:


----------



## aviduser

*READ THIS*

change all the places to DUBAI and tell me that the same thing isn't/didn't happen here. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...s/2792311/New-build-flat-prices-hammered.html

I am not saying COMPARE I am saying this will/is/did happen here.


----------



## IISinbadII

Many of us owe an apology to "first timer" who had bluntly predicted this crash.


----------



## smussuw

What crash?


----------



## High Times

IISinbadII said:


> Many of us owe an apology to "first timer" who had bluntly predicted this crash.


People who hold a different view to the majority are often ignored or ridiculed by the masses who prefer to behave like sheep. 

I think he would have been taken more seriously if he had made valid arguments instead of repeating himself over and over again though.


Where is Doc ?


----------



## 234sale

Wannaberich said:


> They told me 900dirhams.


I assure you Landmark, Asteco or Sherwoods will list it for free.


----------



## Wannaberich

IISinbadII said:


> Many of us owe an apology to "first timer" who had bluntly predicted this crash.


If he predicted the crash was going to come as a result of a worldwide banking crisis then fair comment.From memory he actually 'predicted' it based solely on oversupply probably after reading a number of investment banks predictions of the same.


----------



## BenjiDXB

Nachkebia said:


> Oh my god, this is the worst thing they could have come up with, absolutly all aspects of it hno:


So it means the people that come here for retirement will have to go to Oman every 6 months, in order to renew the visa...pointless ! 

And how to prove that you have 10,000 AED income, while you are not working ?

hno:


----------



## iced

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ No..... I am pointing out how some on this board ridiculed him and attacked him at that time believing that this is just a correction, a minor glitch that would be over soon. How wrong they were.
> 
> Calling someone "an irritating doom-mongering tosser" is exactly the type of intolerance that we don't need.


others on this forum did say a correction would occur such as High Times based on factors like offplan being priced the same as completed property. Better to acknowledge them. It is possible to be irrational and lucky.

Now if someone could predict the next upturn then i will be impressed


----------



## IISinbadII

BenjiDXB said:


> And how to prove that you have 10,000 AED income, while you are not working ?
> 
> hno:


Have 2 properties. 
One worth 1m to apply for the visa and stay in.
The other rented out for >120k/yr to qualify for the income requirement.


----------



## iced

AITU said:


> ^^ There is a good percentage of expats that will send their children home to go to school in the UK / Europe next year, however the parent(s) will stay in Dubai (moving out of villas and into apartments) and the children will go to Boarding School or will be looked after by grandparents.
> 
> People seem to forget the point that the parents need a job to go home to....


Good point. Jobs are also going in europe/us/uk at a faster pace than dubai. once all this govt loans that dubai has recieved/got trickles into the economy and credit occurs then we will the cycle start again.


----------



## smussuw

V Kapoor said:


> ..but don't want the investors to come and live in their "homes". Clever game-plan.....


This is what I've always said but no one wanted to listen


----------



## IISinbadII

*Too little, too late!*

- Owners of properties and residential units will be able to enter the UAE on a multi- trip entry visa that allows them to stay up to six months.

6 months is too short. 

-Owners of built-in properties can stay for six months from the date of entry into the country. On the expiry of this period, the owner pledges to depart for his home country or any of the GCC countries. 

Waste of efforts, time and money. These trips in and out every 6 months would be too expensive for families with children. 

-He will only be allowed to enter the country again after meeting the required conditions'.

Let us look at these conditions.

-the owner should submit a multi-trip entry visa in regards to the property as per the following conditions. The property should be built-in and this case doesn't include owners of vacant lands.

Understandable.

The owner should obtain a title of the property from the property registration authority in the emirate.

Reasonable.

-The unit, be a house or an apartment, should be wholly owned by the concerned person.

Problematic. Many add names of their family members (parents, children, brothers, sisters) to the title deeds for safety reasons in case something happens to them. They wont be able to meet this condition.

-the value of the unit should not be less than Dh 1 million. The unit should be fit for accommodation and for members of the family. The departments of naturalisation and residency will scrutinise this point.

Likely to be based on original price. This would exclude most studios and 1 br owners in Dubai. Bad news for those who bought cheaper units in Ajman and elsewhere. 

-The article allows the owner to include in the visa application his spouse and children and attaches an insurance cover (for him, his wife and children) valid for the limit of the stay in the country.

Good to include wife and children, insurance would be expensive though.

owner should have a fixed income of not less than Dh 10,000 or its equivalent in foreign currencies whether inside or outside the country though the visa doesn't give the owner of the property the right to work inside the country.


Income of Dhs 10,000/month.... Many wishing to retire in Dubai are unlikely to qualify.


----------



## tehsin123

After this visa conditions "joke", I have lost all hopes that this country's property will ever recover. They don't understand. Is everyone so naive? I think we should be ready for AED 300 psf +/- properties soon, but still who's gonna buy and WHY?


----------



## Imre

*UAE introduces multiple-entry visa for property owners *

WAM
Published: May 02, 2009, 17:28


Abu Dhabi: Owners of properties and residential units will be able to enter the UAE on a multi- trip entry visa that allows them to stay up to six months.

The move is line with a ministerial resolution issued by Lieutenant General Shaikh Saif Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, Interior Minister, with the aim of enhancing the local economic environment and providing all fundamentals that help ensure economic growth and prosperity in the country. Under the resolution, the multi-entry permit can be renewed under certain conditions. 

The resolutions is part of the UAE government efforts to introduce adequate legislations that stimulate and boost the domestic economic environment and provide all factors that will ensure highest rates of growth and prosperity as per the vision of the prudent leadership and its continuous directives to improve and upgrade procedural formalities and frameworks to satisfy demands of local markets and serve public interest.

The move also underlines the government commitment to serve interests of all persons who view the country as an oasis of stability and peace, therefore possessing properties in it. By allowing those persons to bring in their wives and children, the government shows its keenness to ensure family stability to them.

The new resolution adds a new paragraph to Article 33 of the executive regulations of the entry and residency law for entry and residency of foreigners. 

It reads: ''Owners of built-in properties can stay for six months from the date of entry into the country. On the expiry of this period, the owner pledges to depart for his home country or any of the GCC countries. He will only be allowed to enter the country again after meeting the required conditions''.

Another new article, number 34, will be incorporated into the by-law stipulating that the owner should submit a multi-trip entry visa in regards to the property as per the following conditions. The property should be built-in and this case doesn't include owners of vacant lands. The owner should obtain a title of the property from the property registration authority in the emirate. The unit, be a house or an apartment, should be wholly owned by the concerned person.

The same article stipulates that the value of the unit should not be less than Dh 1 million. The unit should be fit for accommodation and for members of the family. The departments of naturalisation and residency will scrutinise this point. 

The article allows the owner to include in the visa application his spouse and children and attaches an insurance cover (for him, his wife and children) valid for the limit of the stay in the country.

Article 34 stipulates that owner should have a fixed income of not less than Dh 10,000 or its equivalent in foreign currencies whether inside or outside the country though the visa doesn't give the owner of the property the right to work inside the country.

In case these terms are not met, the permit shall be null and void.

The resolution will take effect from the date of its issuance, and is to be published in the official gazette.

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Immigration_and_Visas/10309660.html


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## Cyrus55

Game over!


----------



## bizzybonita

RERA's new Rent Increase Calculator helps in stabilizing rents

Dubai Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA)'s website now includes a new Rent Increase Calculator, which halts any uncertainties prevailing in the real estate market.

The calculator has helped reduce the maximum rental increase in few localities, and the rents have now decreased by nearly 50 percent. In order to control spiralling rent rates, RERA had introduced a rental index last year. This year's index is yet to be released.

The calculator limits the maximum rents for all locations in Dubai. A triple bedroom villa in Barsha has a ceiling of Dh.140,000 down by 50 percent from Dh.270,000, compared to rental index of 2008. Similarly, a triple bedroom villa at The Springs now has a ceiling of Dh.160,000 in place, compared to Dh.280,000 fixed last year.

Even Al Karama witnessed a drop of 25 percent (from Dh.280,000 to Dh.135,000) for a triple bedroom apartment. In Garhoud, rents dropped to Dh.105,000 from Dh.240,000, marking a 56 percent drop.

Rents in the Mirdif area are down by 42.5 percent from Dh.20,000 to Dh.115,000 for three bedroom villas. The Managing Director for MENA (Middle East and North Africa) region for Jones Lang LaSalle, Blair Hagkull, said that housing affordability is utmost important for continued growth and competitiveness in Dubai.

The downward pressure on rental rates for mid and long-term is a positive indication, although it has implications for future projections of landlords, he said.

Meanwhile, the global real estate consultancy, Colliers International, in their study said that Dubai has seen a rental drop in residential units by 20 to 40 percent, since the last quarter of 2008.


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## gerald.d

IISinbadII said:


> Income of Dhs 10,000/month.... Many wishing to retire in Dubai are unlikely to qualify.


How many people wishing to retire in Dubai do you think there are who would have an income (from investments) of less than 10,000 a month?


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## Imre

*Saif issues resolution on stay of properties owners *

2009-05-02 16:56:06
WAM Abu Dhabi, 2nd May 2009 (WAM) -- Owners of properties in the UAE can enter the country and stay up to six months as per entry permit ( a multi-trip entry visa) under a new resolution issued by Lt. General HH Sheikh Saif bin Zayed Al Nahyan, Minister of Interior.

Under the new move, the multi-entry permit can be renewed according to a set of specific requirements and conditions.


http://www.wam.ae/servlet/Satellite...yout&parent=Collection&parentid=1135099399983


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## mackie1964

The incompetence is beyond comprehension. hno:

The impact short term to kick start the property market recovery will be near to zero, the impact on the long term objectives of full recovery is extremely doubtful and it failed miserably in addressing the worries and concerns of the locals.

Who advises these guys :bash::bash:


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## worried1

*But what about bank account*



smussuw said:


> ^^ clarification should come I guess :dunno:
> 
> Yes built plot means completed.


What about bank account? will this visa allow a person to open a bank account?


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## worried1

*Taj Exotica*

Does anyone on the site have any info on Taj Exotica resale appartments. Would be a good buy if available at 30-50% off:cheers:


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## bizzybonita

Dubai leads in the expensive property market with the average rate of $7,000 a square meter



If you are interested in Real Estate and the effect of the economic crunch on the world real estate climate, here is the latest report from Reidin, a consultancy. Their latest report claims that in spite of the global meltdown Dubai is one of the most expensive emerging property markets today. The city ranked first among 59 cities in 34 emerging markets, with the highest average residential property prices. Reidin has based its analysis from data gathered from advertised prices and brokers and revealed that Dubai’s average rate as of February was about $7,000 a square meter.

The Colliers House Price Index report however claims that the prices have seen a year-on-year decline for the first time since records began. The lack of available finance, job insecurity among expatriates and the lack of transparency about project delays and postponements were reasons for the decline along with the changing profile of buyers. However the report states that it is still very early to make assumptions and determine a trend. Despite the declining prices, Dubai is still number one beating other nations like Moscow with average rate of $6,000 a square meter, Hong Kong with average rate of $5,400 a square meter, Beijing with an average rate of $4,500 a square meter and Tel Aviv with an average rate of $4,200 a square meter.

Looks like Dubai is all set to counter the global crisis with its Real Estate bloom.


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## V Kapoor

tehsin123 said:


> .........I think we should be ready for AED 300 psf +/- properties soon, but still who's gonna buy and WHY?



^^
*SMUSSUW!*


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## IISinbadII

gerald.d said:


> How many people wishing to retire in Dubai do you think there are who would have an income (from investments) of less than 10,000 a month?


Let me explain. 

Ex-pats have worked hard some 20, 30 or more years in Dubai. Now their retirement time is nearing. Their children have been born and raised here...and now working in Dubai. These folks wish to continue living near their children after retirement. They have enough savings to buy a nice 1br apartment as their retirement home....and their grown-up children could easily support them financially.

Property based visa was a hope for them. But with these new visa requirements they will be forced to leave UAE and return back to their countries of origin....away from their loved ones in an age when they need them most.


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## Wannaberich

The refusal by the goverment who crave foreign investors, to give proper visas is very niave,arrogant and very insulting.
They are saying they want our money but they just dont want us.
Wheres the incentive to invest?Before there were plenty who were willing to put their money into Dubai because they could see the incredible returns on investment.
Now that this is not the case is the goverment so arrogant they think investors will come in the same numbers as before without any new incentives in place.
I dont think so somehow.


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## Imre

IISinbadII said:


> -the value of the unit should not be less than Dh 1 million. The unit should be fit for accommodation and for members of the family. The departments of naturalisation and residency will scrutinise this point.
> 
> Likely to be based on original price. This would exclude most studios and 1 br owners in Dubai. Bad news for those who bought cheaper units in Ajman and elsewhere.


I dont think so the original price, Springs villas, Lakes,Palm Jumeirah Shoreline , Dubai Marina Phase 1 , JLT ..etc studios , 1 bed, 2 beds were cheaper then 1 million if you bought in around 2003 , so they will not have visa?


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## IISinbadII

^^ who knows what they will base it on.


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## smussuw

Wannaberich said:


> Now that this is not the case is the goverment so arrogant they think investors will come in the same numbers as before without any new incentives in place.
> I dont think so somehow.


That's why they should stop thinking of attracting investors to buy real estate and focus on other sectors


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## Nachkebia

smussuw said:


> That's why they should stop thinking of attracting investors to buy real estate and focus on other sectors


It is bit too late don`t you think? they need to save investors and most importantly themselves before starting focusing on the "other sectors".......


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## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> That's why they should stop thinking of attracting investors to buy real estate and focus on other sectors


They need new investors to prevent the property sector from a complete collapse which will bring Dubai down at the same time.

They need to make some kind of effort to help all of the investors they enticed to Dubai.They cannot hide behind the idea that no-one forced these investors to buy.If they sit by and do nothing then the bigger danger for them is that any new potential investor will think twice about Dubai.So by helping current investors the gov will also be helping themselves.

If they refuse to issue long term visas then their other option to help the market is to ban any new launches for at least a few years.Also,they should review projects that have already been sold yet not begun construction and only allow those to go ahead that serve a purpose.All others should be cancelled and money fully refunded to investors.


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## Wannaberich

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/554415-off-plan-sales-in-dubai-practically-non-existent---report

Off plan sales in Dubai 'practically non-existent' 
by Arabian Business staff reporterThis email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it on Sunday, 03 May 2009 

NO SALES: Report on Dubai real estate market says off-plan sales are almost non-existent. (Getty Images)Off-plan property sales in Dubai are “practically non-existent”, according to a new report released this week.

“State of the Market 2009”, published by Better Homes and Investment Boutique, warns that “off plan sales across the emirate are practically non-existent, and finished product is in demand mostly by end-users.”

The report adds that “there is still substantial room for price depression in order to meet true affordability levels.”


However, on a more positive footing, it suggests that “by the last quarter of 2009 prices are expected to hit a trough and the market is expected to gradually stabilise.”

The 100-page report was compiled over the past three months, and contains detailed analysis of the residential, commercial, retail and hospitality sectors.

“The report shows that we are going through very challenging times, where prices, targets and ambitions will have to be dramatically altered. This is a painful process,” said Better Homes managing director, Ryan Mahoney.

It comes just days after revelations in the new rental index from RERA of a sharp decline house prices across the emirate.

A three bedroom villa in The Springs should cost between AED140,000 and AED160,000 a year, a maximum of a 50 percent discount on the previous guideline rent of AED250,000 to AED280,000.

A two bedroom apartment in the Marina on old pricing levels was AED150,000 to AED180,000 a year. Tenants can now expect up to 36 percent fall in rent of AED120,000 to AED160,000, according to the index.


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## Nachkebia

Wannaberich said:


> They need new investors to prevent the property sector from a complete collapse which will bring Dubai down at the same time.
> 
> They need to make some kind of effort to help all of the investors they enticed to Dubai.They cannot hide behind the idea that no-one forced these investors to buy.If they sit by and do nothing then the bigger danger for them is that any new potential investor will think twice about Dubai.So by helping current investors the gov will also be helping themselves.
> 
> If they refuse to issue long term visas then their other option to help the market is to ban any new launches for at least a few years.Also,they should review projects that have already been sold yet not begun construction and only allow those to go ahead that serve a purpose.All others should be cancelled and money fully refunded to investors.


Well put :cheers:


----------



## gerald.d

IISinbadII said:


> Let me explain.
> 
> Ex-pats have worked hard some 20, 30 or more years in Dubai. Now their retirement time is nearing. Their children have been born and raised here...and now working in Dubai. These folks wish to continue living near their children after retirement. They have enough savings to buy a nice 1br apartment as their retirement home....*and their grown-up children could easily support them financially.*
> 
> Property based visa was a hope for them. But with these new visa requirements they will be forced to leave UAE and return back to their countries of origin....*away from their loved ones in an age when they need them most.*


Ahh.

Huge culture clash there then I think. I couldn't even begin to relate to the highlighted bits.

Might as well leave it at that as we're going to be poles apart on this one.


----------



## High Times

*DUBAI CRASH OR CORRECTION ?*



234sale said:


> HT
> 
> Will get round to answering all your remarks in full, *with simple explanations*.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=35877694&postcount=16211

*234Sale*, I have been patiently waiting for your *simple explanations* as to why the UK is experiencing a CRASH and Dubai is expriencing a CORRECTION.

I guess you must be very busy at the moment.

Anyway here is why i think you are wrong as the UK market is undergoing a CORRECTION and Dubai has CRASHED. The unknown element for me is will it burn too.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The UK and Western Europe is experiencing a CORRECTION due to the facts the real estate prices have steadily grown over a period of the last 15 years. Average prices have increased year on year and the curve has been fairly consistent (allowing for a few spikes). The main drivers of the UK housing growth curve are;

Real demand by end users (home owners)
Real demand by investors/landlords (to rent to tenants, students, foreign visitors etc)
Availability of finance (mature mortgage market with many distribution points)
Growing population
Growing immigration
Housing shortage in all sectors (Low cost/Average/High end)
Local government/town planning policies ensuring sensible, sustainable development
UK is a desirable place to live (despite paying taxes, and shit weather)
A growing student population due to excellent educational facilities

The only thing that has changed here is that the finance taps have been turned off and people can’t borrow what is needed any more. 

Due to finance being more difficult to attain the normal buying levels have reduced to a nominal rate. All of the other drivers for a successful property market are still in place and once the Banking problems are sorted lending will resume, all be it at a more sensible rate. The lending multiples will no longer be at the 10 times income level but lenders are already putting proposals in place to bridge the gap between a sensible 4 times income and what may be needed to purchase. Plans that will be the norm in 3 years are; 

Multiple applicant purchases (4 mortgagors on one property)
Shared ownership schemes (with banks)
Guarantor backed schemes (with parents)
Equity release/cross equity transfer schemes, and others in the embryonic stages too.

Bottom line is that the UK is short on housing units, but buyers lack confidence and finances (both temporary), so prices have corrected back by 20% - 30%. We are now in a consolidation period and will resume on a more modest growth curve within the next 12 months. People are tentatively dipping their toes into the water already.


When you look at the Dubai phenomenon, you can see the drivers that have fuelled the fire of real estate are;

No regulation in property sales and development until very recently (2008 coincidently)
False promises endorsed by the Government (Visa for property owners)
Freehold property introduced (all be it conceptually)
Successful flagship development of Palm Jumeirah marketed worldwide
Fantastic marketing machine putting Dubai on the map 
Regional liquidity due to high oil prices
No restrictions regarding investors wealth (Money Laundering)
Global Property Boom creating an appetite for investment
Construction costs escalating and thus forcing up new off plan prices

So now the veil has been taken off the face of Dubai ask yourself what is left?

A more regulated market place making sales and development more difficult
No visas for property owners
Reduced liquidity in the region
No real mortgage market (only primitive distribution channels exists through banks) which are largely state controlled
Increased unit supply over the next 3-5 years even with the announced project cancellations
Global recession reducing demand for 2nd homes (people are more concerned with keeping their main residences at the moment back home in UK, Russia, US etc)
Archaic immigration laws forcing redundant employees to leave the country in the event of redundancy (visa issues again)
Population counts being distorted by low paid immigrant workers who can not make a viable contribution to the economy
Reducing rental yields making buy to let less attractive
Occupancy levels in completed developments 60% at best
Ex pats leaving town in the thousands, reducing the need further for supply over 1-3 years

All of this and the Dubai machine is still building more and more unnecessary housing and commercial office space. It is simply unsustainable and that’s why what has happened/is happening in Dubai is a CRASH. 

Nobody is in control, nobody has applied the brakes, and there is no airbag. People will get hurt, and confidence will be eroded, not by what has happened, but by what isn’t happening. NO LEADERSHIP. Too busy with horses and poetry. Unaccountable and unable to manage the mess that has been created.

Is Dubai finished? 

No, of course not, but until there is a collective reorganisation of what goals are achievable and desirable, the real estate sector is going nowhere. Sitting on your horse waiting for the Dollar to weaken and oil prices to rise is not strategy, it’s just lazy.


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## Dubai_Steve

DUBAI, May 3 (Reuters) - Expatriate property owners in the United Arab Emirates will be granted multiple entry visit visas enabling them to stay six months at a time, the Gulf state said in a decree issued on Saturday.

Home buyers had been waiting for legislation for years to clarify their residency rights in the second-largest Arab economy after many of the country's seven emirates allowed foreign investment in property in recent years.
Some developers in Dubai, currently suffering from a sharp drop in real estate prices, had been offering foreign property buyers promises of residency visas if they bought properties.

"Owners of built-up properties can stay for six months from the date of entry into the country," the official WAM news agency reported late on Saturday, citing a decree issued by UAE Minister of Interior Sheikh Saif bin Zayed al-Nahayan.

"On the expiry of this period, the owner pledges to depart for his homeland or any of the GCC countries. He will only be allowed to enter the country again after meeting the required conditions," the decree said.

Among the conditions are a requirement that the residential unit should be wholly owned and built, worth a minimum of 1 million dirhams ($272,300), and fit for the accommodation of a family.

The owner should have a fixed income of no less than 10,000 dirhams a month, or the equivalent in foreign currency. The visit visa does not give the owner the right to work in the UAE, the decree said.

"Greater clarity regarding visa and ownership rights of property owners would help to increase transparency and hence confidence in the market, perhaps providing a positive trigger for demand," investment bank EFG-Hermes said in a research note.

Real estate prices in Dubai tumbled 41 percent in the first three months of 2009, according to property consultants Colliers. The property sector slowdown has led to project cancellations worth billions of dollars.

(Reporting by Jason Benham;Editing by Tomasz Janowski)


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## smussuw

High Times said:


> NO LEADERSHIP. Too busy with horses and poetry. Unaccountable and unable to manage the mess that has been created.


I don't think its fair to say that but anyway what else do u think he should've done? Beside the usual crap of visas?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Happy to see this happening...



Adam2707 said:


> Hopefully this will kick-start solar production in the UAE.
> 
> Dubai to make world's largest solar panel manufacturing plant
> 
> Construction work is set to start on the Middle East's largest solar panel manufacturing plant to be developed in Dubai.
> 
> The facility will extend over one million square feet and the first phase is expected to complete by the end of 2010, according to Dubai World chairman Sultan bin Sulayem.
> 
> The new facility that will be built in Dubai Techno Park is part of the Green Dubai initiative which aims to improve the sustainability of buildings in the emirate.
> 
> The facility will extend over one million square feet and the first phase is expected to complete by the end of 2010, according to Dubai World chairman Sultan bin Sulayem.
> 
> The new facility that will be built in Dubai Techno Park is part of the Green Dubai initiative which aims to improve the sustainability of buildings in the emirate.
> 
> *"We are promoting Dubai as a tourist destination and if we want tourists to come here, we have to have clean air," he told an audience at the start of the Green Dubai conference at the Atlantis Hotel late Friday.*
> 
> The plant will be built by Dubai-based Solar Technologies and aims to produce the largest solar panels in the world - measuring about 5.7 square metres, bin Sulayem said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first phase of the factory will produce enough panels to generate about 130 megawatts of power.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Found a bargain here for someone with cash to invest.

963 sq ft 1 bed apartment in Dubai Marina, price AED 804,580 (AED 835 psf)
Rental income (from RERA April index = AED 80,000 to 120,000)

Gross rental yield = Between 10% minimum - 15% maximum


----------



## luluprovence

^^ any idea as to where this working of 80 - 120k is on the rpdubai.ae site? or could you explain how to work this out?


----------



## Mistermark

Wannaberich said:


> They need new investors to prevent the property sector from a complete collapse which will bring Dubai down at the same time.
> 
> They need to make some kind of effort to help all of the investors they enticed to Dubai.They cannot hide behind the idea that no-one forced these investors to buy.If they sit by and do nothing then the bigger danger for them is that any new potential investor will think twice about Dubai.So by helping current investors the gov will also be helping themselves.


I agree with this. In Sheikh Mo's recent online Q&A there was a quote that made me wonder whether he has the slightest clue how the world works. Asked about the visa issue, he said something along the lines of 'it was certainly not within the authority of property developers to offer purchasers visas'. 

Really? Weren't the contracts approved by the master developers for each project, which were, directly or indirectly, controlled by the Royal family? And are you now claiming you weren't aware of the promises that were made, or were you aware of them but chose to do nothing about it?

The fact is, the Dubai government, from Sheikh Mo downward, were a party to making promises to property buyers. Either they ensure those promises come true, or they accept that they've breached faith with those people and deserve their country to be starved of foreign investment for a generation. Not because of the issue of visas, but because those in power can't be trusted.


----------



## bizzybonita

With this news about issue of visas it gives no trust more n more for investors in 1st place & by 1 million dirham they can have a new nationality somewhere not a 6 months multi- Pajamas ...


----------



## bizzybonita

smussuw said:


> That's why they should stop thinking of attracting investors to buy real estate and focus on other sectors


I guess they do by now !


----------



## bizzybonita

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ who knows what they will base it on.


We should wait till it goes officially ... a lot of thing need an exception " under special condition"


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> I don't think its fair to say that but anyway what else do u think he should've done? Beside the usual crap of visas?


Stand down as leader.


----------



## Wannaberich

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/554434-dubai-sees-residential-sales-double-in-feb


Dubai sees residential sales double in Febby Joanna HartleyThis email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it on Sunday, 03 May 2009 

INVESTOR INTEREST: Increased regulation and transparency in Dubai real estate sector has helped to attract renewed interest from investors, says report. (Getty Images)Residential sales in Dubai picked up in February, with the number of properties changing hands doubling that seen at the start for the year, according to a new report from Jones Lang LaSalle.

April’s edition of Global Market Perspective says that almost $520m of mainly residential sales were recorded in Dubai in the second month of the year – twice the value seen in January. 

Opportunistic investors from the local region and overseas were starting to regain interest in the sector, in part as a result of increased regulation and transparency, the report says. 


The trend should “translate into increased commercial real estate transactions in the fourth quarter of 2009”, it adds. 

The report goes on to predict that the market will stabalise in 2010, ahead of a full price recovery in 2011.

However, although capital was being redirected in the Middle East the region would see a net outflow as sovereign and private investors take advantage of overseas markets.

"While the regions’ property markets have adjusted much more quickly than other regions, 2009 will be a year of correction,” Jones Lang LaSalle analysts said.

The refinancing of banks had helped boost liquidity in the real estate sector, and investor interest had been renewed by the lowering of prices.

Plans for new office and residential space in Dubai for 2012 is now half the 2008 figure, the report points out. 

The Middle East is one of the few global regions tipped to see positive economic growth this year, with the International Monetary Fund estimating 2.5 percent growth.


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## Morrismarina

At last a bit of good news - whew......thanks for that Wannaberich. :banana:


----------



## Wannaberich

IISinbadII said:


> But they don't want foreigners to settle here. They want them to finish up their work and leave along with all the filth they have brought. If they stay longer, they may change the population dynamics, cultural values and so on. And one day ask for rights.
> 
> Wealth at the expense of national identity is not worth the risk.


God forbid the resodents of Dubai ask for rights.Whatever next.

If Sheiky wants to reach his vision of Dubai,it may prove very difficult to do so unless he makes people feel wanted.At the moment he just makes people feel like he wants thier money and not them.
Imagine Dubai in 10 years with maybe a population of 5m.Around 4.8m foreigners with no visas.Is that possible?Can u build a society like that?
Is there anywhere in the world that has done this?I doubt it.
Visas will come one day and so will rights if Dubai wants to join the modern world.Otherwise the dream may not happen.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai’s $20 billion bond to help government-linked companies suffering in the financial crisis should be “more than enough” for this year, Deutsche Bank CEO for Middle East and North Africa (MENA) said on Sunday.


“For this year, it is more than enough,” Henry Azzam told Maktoob Business on the sidelines of the Arabian Hotel Investment Conference in the emirate. 

“The peak (for the debt) is this year. Especially if by next year economic conditions improve, requirements for refinancing will be less.”

Dubai unveiled the bond issue in February. The UAE’s federal government has fully subscribed to a first tranche of $10 billion. 

Dubai plans a second tranche later in 2009, when a good portion of the emirate’s debt comes due just as tight international credit markets have made new borrowing difficult.

Azzam said the MENA region will not recover from the financial crisis until the United States - the world’s largest economy where the malady started - starts to pick up.

“I do not know if we have reached the bottom yet,” Azzam said, adding that a recovery should start in about a year. 

“The (MENA) region was not at the epicentre of the crisis. We will not have a convincing recovery here before confidence returns to the international markets, recovery starts in the United States.

"We have to see the beginning of the end abroad and then our markets will respond.”

He said Deutsche Bank could expand investment banking staff in the region by the end of 2009 or early 2010 if the economy improves.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*British Parliament MP Dismisses Dubai Press Criticism, Is Impressed With Dubai Airport Free Zone Expansion*

UK is Dubai’s No. 8 trade partner with trade valued at AED 22 billion in 2007. A total of 2,395 British companies operate in Dubai with 125 based in Dubai Airport Free Zone

A high level delegation from the British Parliament paid a visit to the Dubai Airport Free Zone recently to see for themselves the wealth of opportunities on offer to British businessmen and explore the potential of the region.

*“I am hugely impressed and delighted at the number of British companies in the Dubai Airport Free Zone,”* said the Honourable Peter Luff, Member of Parliament (MP) of Great Britain after hearing a presentation on what is on offer for companies setting up their offices at the Dubai Airport Free Zone. He led a 13-man delegation which included seven MPs and two state committee officers and officials from the British Consulate.

The Honourable Mr. Luff represents mid-Worcestershire in the British Parliament. He is also Chairman of the Business and Entrepreneurship Committee for England, Scotland and Wales.

"Our visit to Dubai will be followed by a visit to Abu Dhabi and later on to Riyadh in Saudi Arabia to seek business opportunities. *Our highest priority in the Gulf is the UAE and Dubai and I am impressed that this priority has been translated into practical reality on the ground and we are here to see what can be done to improve it.”*

He added that Dubai has done well which is reflected in the number of visitors and investors coming to the emirate. Commenting on the negative media coverage of Dubai appearing in the British media, Mr. Luff said “*I would advise people in Dubai not to worry too much about it. The British media is a law unto itself; they later destroy whoever they talk to.”*

Mr. Luff added, “*After my visit to Dubai I will bring back a positive message *and impression of Dubai and the Dubai Airport Free Zone.”

Commenting on his impression of Dubai’s growth after the presentation, MP Lembit Opik, a delegation member said “I am very positive and happy to write an article on my views on Dubai and the Dubai Airport Free Zone in my magazine.”

Mr. Luff’s delegation were welcomed by Dr. Mohammed Al Zarouni, Director General of the Dubai Airport Free Zone, Mr. Nasser Al Madani, Assistant ‘Director General and other senior executives of the Free Zone.

“The UK is Dubai’s No. 8 trade partner with 2,394 British companies operating in Dubai. Total trade between Dubai and the UK was valued at AED 22 billion in 2007,” said Dr. Mohammed Al Zarouni, Director General of Dubai Airport Free Zone in his address to the delegation.* “British companies comprise 8% of the total number of companies based at the Dubai Airport Free Zone with 125 companies listed at present. These companies are in the Automotive, Biotechnology, Aviation and Consultancy service.”*

Replying to a delegate’s question on how the Dubai Airport Free Zone’s expansion plans have been affected by the economic downturn, Dr. Al Zarouni said “We are going ahead with our plans up to the year 2015 and it is on track. What we are doing is prioritizing, moving some components of our strategy ahead by six months or postponing other elements as we see fit.”

On the question of competition with other Free Zones in the country, Dr. Al Zarouni explained that what the Dubai Airport Free Zone does complements what the other Free Zones in the UAE are doing. “A healthy, friendly competition is good for us as it improves performance and in the end it benefits the clients.”

Dr. Al Zarouni called on the British MP’s to help convey the message to British companies “To take advantage of the opportunities available to them in the Dubai Airport Free Zone and in the UAE and encourage them to come to this market and form joint ventures with local businessmen.”

“As part of its extensive presence among British investors and traders in UK, Dubai Airport Free Zone will conduct a seminar at Arab British Chamber of Commerce in London during the month of June and arrange meetings with British companies.”


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Found a bargain here for someone with cash to invest.
> 
> 963 sq ft 1 bed apartment in Dubai Marina, price AED 804,580 (AED 835 psf)
> Rental income (from RERA April index = AED 80,000 to 120,000)
> 
> Gross rental yield = Between 10% minimum - 15% maximum


Let me guess, is it a Select Properties off plan?:lol:

Or is it ready now that would start earning rent income straight away? 

I came accross a Marina townhouse in Dorrabay 1350ft2 with 2 parking spaces, own garden space and full use of the Towers facilities (pools, massive gym, sky lounge etc) for only 1.4M. Should rent for circa 150k!

Good deals everywhere but no one likes off plan anymore.


----------



## Porcello

Wannaberich said:


> God forbid the resodents of Dubai ask for rights.Whatever next.
> 
> If Sheiky wants to reach his vision of Dubai,it may prove very difficult to do so unless he makes people feel wanted.At the moment he just makes people feel like he wants thier money and not them.
> Imagine Dubai in 10 years with maybe a population of 5m.Around 4.8m foreigners with no visas.Is that possible?Can u build a society like that?
> Is there anywhere in the world that has done this?I doubt it.
> Visas will come one day and so will rights if Dubai wants to join the modern world.Otherwise the dream may not happen.


I understand your concerns about the Visa issue... I believe as well that what has been done came to late and was too little. However, forget the visa now. There is something worse that requires immediate action before it's too late: imprisonment for bounced cheques.

Just think about the number of foreigners who bought properties with a local mortgage. In order to obtain one, you must usually sign a postdated cheque per month for the first two years plus at least a huge undated cheque for the full value of the property including interests (or profits).

Now think about the same people losing their jobs; since the market has crashed, most of them cannot sell their property to repay the mortgage.
In case two or three cheques bounce, they are taken straight to jail. Do you think anybody of them would care about the visa in that case? The only reasonable thing to do is to pack and leave before the first cheque bounces, even with all the good intentions to find another job and repay debts.


----------



## docc

Scott, Was the townhouse facing the bridge?


----------



## smussuw

some more info

All residence visas issued by developers will be canceled effective from June.
The cost of the visa is AED 2,000 without requiring any bank insurance.

They called it a permit and not a visa. I think it means that those who have this residence permit can also have a working visa? :dunno:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> Let me guess, is it a Select Properties off plan?:lol:
> 
> Or is it ready now that would start earning rent income straight away?
> 
> I came accross a Marina townhouse in Dorrabay 1350ft2 with 2 parking spaces, own garden space and full use of the Towers facilities (pools, massive gym, sky lounge etc) for only 1.4M. Should rent for circa 150k!
> 
> Good deals everywhere but no one likes off plan anymore.


It completes in 2010, so not off-plan. Off-plan implies build has not started 

My point is that there are 10% to 15% rental yields available to be had therefore any professional investor should be interested in those rather than putting his cash in a 2% interest savings account or something. Therefore if rents do not dip too much more and Dubai can sustain industry, create jobs and allow people to stay to do them without fear of prison if getting into debt then the recovery in the Dubai property market is close.


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> some more info
> 
> All residence visas issued by developers will be canceled effective from June.
> The cost of the visa is AED 2,000 without requiring any bank insurance.
> 
> They called it a permit and not a visa. I think it means that those who have this residence permit can also have a working visa? :dunno:


add another condition:

The multiple-entry visas may be renewed, but *the investor must remain out of the UAE for at least one month*.



This means AED 4,000 per year per person. 
For a family of four it could mean AED 16,000 per year.
plus medical test charges every 6 months?
plus air fare for each family member for the visa run twice a year
plus expenses to live out of the country for 1 month every 6 months?
plus property appraisal fees twice a year ?
school time loss for the kids
mental tension and headache
sense of uncertainty, constant fear that they may not renew your visa for whatever reason......


----------



## tehsin123

IISinbadII said:


> add another condition:
> 
> The multiple-entry visas may be renewed, but *the investor must remain out of the UAE for at least one month*.
> 
> 
> 
> This means AED 4,000 per year per person.
> For a family of four it could mean AED 16,000 per year.
> plus medical test charges every 6 months?
> plus air fare for each family member for the visa run twice a year
> plus expenses to live out of the country for 1 month every 6 months?
> plus property appraisal fees twice a year ?
> school time loss for the kids
> mental tension and headache
> sense of uncertainty, constant fear that they may not renew your visa for whatever reason......


Wow, that is Dubai's way of encouraging foreign investors:bash:


----------



## smussuw

IISinbadII said:


> add another condition:
> 
> The multiple-entry visas may be renewed, but *the investor must remain out of the UAE for at least one month*.
> 
> 
> 
> This means AED 4,000 per year per person.
> For a family of four it could mean AED 16,000 per year.
> plus medical test charges every 6 months?
> plus air fare for each family member for the visa run twice a year
> plus expenses to live out of the country for 1 month every 6 months?
> plus property appraisal fees twice a year ?
> school time loss for the kids
> mental tension and headache
> sense of uncertainty, constant fear that they may not renew your visa for whatever reason......


Where did u read that they should be out the UAE for a month, i dont recall remembering that !


----------



## Porcello

smussuw said:


> Where did u read that they should be out the UAE for a month, i dont recall remembering that !


Gulf news: http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Immigration_and_Visas/10310347.html


----------



## Imre

smussuw said:


> some more info
> 
> *All residence visas issued by developers will be canceled effective from June.*



:nuts:


----------



## tehsin123

smussuw said:


> some more info
> 
> All residence visas issued by developers will be canceled effective from June.


How to comment on this super plan to kick out of country many expats at times when there is mass exodus expected anyway. So it means more properties on sale, crash will be extended even more. This is the time to bring more people in to stablize the economy. I don't know if anyone has studies basic economics in Dubai government. Who is listening but..?


----------



## Imre

Dubai cant do anything , they are just the puppet of Abu Dhabi


----------



## montranieri

Resident visa rule is insulting! 
Emiratis think to be smart in doing this? At the end they will be the victims and they really deserve it.
Maybe in no western country you can get more than this but at least there is no discrimination like the value of the property. Ridiculous and also stupid!!


----------



## Philippa C

We have all been duped. Wish I'd never nvested a cent in Dubai. As soon as i can I'm going to liquidate my assets and get the money out of here. Major con job.


----------



## True Blue

docc said:


> Scott, Was the townhouse facing the bridge?


It is on the row that directly faces the marina above the boardwalk retail.


----------



## True Blue

About time, signs that Dubai is refocusing on the core tourism goal again;

DUBAILAND and Royal Caribbean International Sign Strategic Joint Marketing Partnership


MIAMI, May 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- DUBAILAND, a member of Tatweer, and Royal Caribbean International, the world's largest global cruise line, today announced the signing of a memorandum of understanding towards the formation of a strategic marketing partnership, which is expected to provide a substantial boost to the cruise industry and the destination of Dubai.

The agreement's goal is to promote the development, growth and commercial success of the two brands through joint marketing and promotional activities in key global source markets. Royal Caribbean will feature DUBAILAND's key live attractions in their shore excursion programs, while DUBAILAND will actively promote Royal Caribbean's Dubai cruises through their global agency network.

From January to April 2010, Royal Caribbean International will introduce seven-night sailings aboard the Brilliance of the Seas from Dubai to an international mix of guests, in line with its signature style of cruising for active holidaymakers. Guests will have ample time to explore the spectacular city with overnight stays at the beginning and conclusion of the voyage.

DUBAILAND is the world's largest tourism, leisure and entertainment destination. Phase One of DUBAILAND is now open with its five live projects - including Dubai Autodrome in MotorCity, Dubai Outlet Mall in Outlet City, The Global Village, Al Sahra Desert Resort and Dubai Sports City, which contains the Ernie Els Golf Club, the Butch Harmon School of Golf and the Cricket Stadium - operational.

Currently the projects receive up to eight million visits annually, and are designed to add further variety to Dubai's tourism offering by providing visitors with exciting entertainment options and incredible value for money.

Mohammed Al Habbai, Senior Vice-President of DUBAILAND, said: "As one of the premier global destinations, DUBAILAND is privileged to enter into this partnership with one of the globe's leading cruise line operators. Our agreement can be recognized as a world-class initiative to add value to the emirate's economy, increase visitor numbers and enhance the customer experience in Dubai and the region for residents and visitors. We are confident the deal will result in creating synergies that will contribute to the growth of regional and international tourism.

"The objective of the deal between DUBAILAND and Royal Caribbean International is to promote the growth and commercial success of the two brands through promotional activities in key global source markets, while contributing to the growth of the tourism industry worldwide."

Adam Goldstein, President and CEO of Royal Caribbean International, said: "The partnership has been entered into at an opportune time as we gear up for the launch of our first Arabian dedicated season, and will help us actively promote our Gulf cruises and land programs while enhancing the Dubai offering for our mutual customers.

"Building on our reputation for introducing revolutionary cruise experiences, we share DUBAILAND's commitment to an extraordinary guest experience. We strongly believe the deal will bring benefit to both brands on a global scale."

Michael Bayley, Senior Vice President International for Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. added: "Our partnership with DUBAILAND increases our synergies in the region and develops our mutual international brand awareness and business opportunities.

"DUBAILAND shares our mission to innovate our respective industry segments and create the most memorable holiday experiences for our guests. We are delighted to partner with DUBAILAND to provide holidaymakers around the world with the best of land and sea when planning a trip to Dubai."

Brilliance of the Seas is considered one of the most elegant cruise ships in the world. The ship features an open Centrum with 10-deck high windows and ocean-facing glass elevators, both of which will offer spectacular views of the passing shoreline and sea. On Brilliance of the Seas, the whole family can share in nine holes of mini-golf; scale the iconic rock wall, which Royal Caribbean first introduced to cruising; join a basketball game on the sports court; delight in riding the Adventure Beach waterslide; or challenge each other on one of the self-leveling pool tables in the Bombay Billiards Club.

Guests also will enjoy Royal Caribbean's award-winning musical revues from Royal Caribbean Productions, multiple restaurants, lounges and discos throughout the ship, and world-class gaming in the Casino Royale. Throughout their stay, every guest will enjoy Royal Caribbean's Gold Anchor standard of friendly and engaging service from Brilliance's staff and crew.

DUBAILAND, a member of Tatweer and the world's largest tourism, leisure and entertainment destination has been designed to elevate the position of Dubai as an international hub for tourism. Covering an area of three billion square feet, DUBAILAND comprises an unparalleled portfolio of diverse mega projects that include theme parks, cultural attractions, spas, hotels and resorts, sports and entertainment venues. These world-class projects are being developed by respected international and local investors.

While phase One of DUBAILAND is now open with five operational projects, several other projects currently under construction include The Tiger Woods Dubai, Dubai Golf City, City of Arabia, F1X theme park at MotorCity, Dubai Lifestyle City, Palmarosa and Al Barari. Design and development is underway on world renowned theme parks including Universal Studios DUBAILAND(TM), Freej DUBAILAND, Dreamworks DUBAILAND, Marvel DUBAILAND, Six Flags DUBAILAND and LEGOLAND DUBAILAND. A product of extraordinary vision, DUBAILAND will be an attractive place to 'live, work and play', both as a leisure destination and an ideal setting for business and entertainment development.

Royal Caribbean International is a global cruise brand with 20 ships currently in service and two under construction. The line also offers unique cruisetour vacations in Alaska, Asia, Australia, Canada, Europe, South America and New Zealand. For additional information or to make reservations, call your travel agent, visit http://www.royalcaribbean.com/ or call (800) ROYAL-CARIBBEAN. For travel professionals, go to www.cruisingpower.com or call (800) 327-2056.


----------



## Naz UK

Imre said:


> Dubai cant do anything , they are just the puppet of Abu Dhabi


And that's probably the most controversial thing you've ever said on this forum. Quite true though. Dubai's well fucked now.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Good thing that 'agod' took out that RAK business visa.


----------



## AITU

^^ We could all go and "work for him"


----------



## Dubai_Steve

This 6 month permit is just for the retired to spend the winters in their apartment, can't see any other use for it.

But shocking that they will cancel all current resdiency visa without any system to replace it.


----------



## Mistermark

Philippa C said:


> We have all been duped. Wish I'd never nvested a cent in Dubai. As soon as i can I'm going to liquidate my assets and get the money out of here. Major con job.


I agree with you actually. Sold my Goldcrest Views duplex at just over OP last month, made about 30% profit due to the exchange rate movement, will be returning my three Torch units to the developer on 1 July due to late delivery. Until I saw the new visa proposal I was thinking of recycling half the proceeds of both transactions into small, completed Marina units, but now I won't. I'll keep my studio in Lake Terrace as the tenant's a good one and I'd like a place in a country with no direct taxation (call it an insurance policy) but until I see evidence that Sheikh Mo (i) can manage his economy and (ii) does what he says he will, I'm holding off further investment in Dubai.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai realty may see a price-floor*

The bid-ask spread in Dubai's residential market is narrowing, indicating initial price floors could be emerging, according to a new report.

"Listed prices of residential properties in select areas are moving towards the actual transactional values, indicating that listings are nearing sellers' lowest acceptable prices," Landmark Advisory said in the second quarter report on Dubai and Abu Dhabi residential market.

Bid-ask spreads in March primarily varied between 12 per cent and 33 per cent , but in some cases reached 44 per cent. In select areas and for specific projects, evidence is growing that spreads reached 44 per cent. In select areas and for specific projects, evidence is growing that spreads are coming down to within 10 per cent and 15 per cent. 

This indicates that initial price floors could be emerging. However, bottoming-out is a slow and varied process that will depend largely on seller motivation and consumer demand.

"The investors left in the market are those who are not looking to sell in a hurry as speculators have already exited," Charles Neil, CEO, Landmark Advisory, told Emirates Business.

"We expect the first price floors to emerging in the fourth quarter as consumer demand defines one side of the price equation," said the report. Location, fitting, quality, available amenities and facilities, as well as the integration of the master development, will determine which areas and projects bottom-out first. Defining the other side of the price, equation are sellers, whose motivations are usually less homogeneous than buyer motivations, but are equally important in determining price equilibrium and finding price floors.

"The real estate prices in Dubai are not falling as much as they were before indicating that more people are holding onto their properties and not selling them," Neil added. "There are two reasons for not many sellers listing their properties for sale as they are opting to lease their properties instead of selling and the fact that they believe that the market has reached the bottom in certain areas." 

Neil said that in areas such as Dubai Marina, Palm Jumeirah and Emirates Living real estate prices are not coming down.

In Dubai, residential sales volumes are low, and average residential sale prices have declined by 23 per cent to 32 per cent. Controlled samples show rental rates have declined nine per cent to 41 per cent since fourth quarter of 2008.

In the first quarter, the average sale price for apartments decreased 23 per cent to Dh1,146 per square foot, while average sale prices for villas decreased 32 per cent to Dh1,076 per square foot.

Residential leasing is currently restructuring, as tenants upgrade, generally preferring larger and / or better-located units over discounts on existing accommodations. Tenants are giving their studios and moving into the one or two-bedroom apartments, while others are exchanging apartments in favour of villas.

Dubai's current residential sales prices are currently at fourth quarter 2007 levels, with year-on-year declines of four per cent for apartments and nine per cent for villas.

Sales are currently centred on high-end master developments that are closer to completion. Approximately 40 per cent of sales in the last quarter occurred in the Dubai Marina/ Jumeirah Beach Residence area.

*New leasing contracts in Dubai*

Dubai Marina was the most popular area for all leasing, accounting for 30 per cent of all new lease contracts in Dubai. Around 16 per cent of new annual contracts were for units in Emirates Living. Jumeirah Lake Towers, Jumeirah Beach Residences and Downtown Burj Dubai each represented approximately 10 per cent of all new annual leasing contracts.

Short-term leasing showed similar trends. Dubai Marina and Emirates Living were the most preferred locations, together constituting over two-thirds of the short-term leasing market.

For villas the most popular area to rent is Emirates Living recording around 40 per cent of all new annual contracts, followed by Mirdiff and Jumeirah/ Umm Suqueim. 

Similar trends were also observed in sales with the Dubai Marina and Jumeirah Beach Residence area proving most popular among buyers.

In Dubai, about 24,000 housing units are expected to be delivered in 2009. With 24,000 housing units to be added into the market and the vacancies caused by emigration, Landmark Advisory said a 30,000 to 52,000 units surplus can be expected in the market depending on absorption patterns and actual rate of population decrease.

The report said there has been a strong sales trend favouring Emaar master developments and units developed specifically by Emaar. Approximately two-thirds of all property transactions in the data sheet were for units in Emaar's master developments, villa communities, and apartment complexes. Over half of all units sold were developed directly by Emaar. 

Leasing transaction patterns generally mirrored sales trends. Around, 57 per cent of new residential unit leases were in Emaar master developments.

In Sorouh's secondary market however, the transactions have retained premiums over primary levels. Aldar's units average closer to primary market prices.

*"Real estate prices will not go up a lot as financing is still limited. Prices will remain status quo as it is currently until next year. However, there is more activity being recorded as rental yields are high in Dubai at average eight to 15 per cent," said Neil.*

*Abu Dhabi *

In Abu Dhabi, the trends are slightly more advanced, with confidence starting to solidify and price floors emerging based on the primary market price for each development. 

End-users constitute the majority of current demand, as investor interest has abated. Prices increasingly differentiate according to consumer preferences and the changing buyer profile.

Proximity to the existing central business district on Abu Dhabi Island is becoming a key factor of end-user demand and prices.

*Competition*

Abu Dhabi faces growing competition from Dubai's increasingly affordable leasing market, which continues to attract more residents from the capital. 

Having sky-rocketed in 2008, rents in Abu Dhabi stabilised in first quarter of 2009, and fell marginally in some cases. Since fourth quarter of last year, apartment rents were stable, while villa rents declined 10 to 15 per cent. Further rent cuts are likely due to increased unit supply in the capital and the growing attraction to Dubai's lower prices.


----------



## tehsin123

Philippa C said:


> We have all been duped. Wish I'd never nvested a cent in Dubai. As soon as i can I'm going to liquidate my assets and get the money out of here. Major con job.


Yes, we know it now. But out of most people I met during last few years, one common thing I found. Of all the people, those who have been living here for mor than 10 years haven't ventured into investing in property. Its the newbies who came here during last 5 years or so were victims. After having chat with my oldie friends, they always use to say that this region is not trust worthy. They change their minds literally overnight. Probably they have seen and observed during their years. Experience pays off...


----------



## smussuw

Couldn't resist saying "I told u so" :runaway:


----------



## Wannaberich

smussuw said:


> Couldn't resist saying "I told u so" :runaway:


You must be heartbroken.


----------



## Safrica

smussuw said:


> Couldn't resist saying "I told u so" :runaway:


It is sad that we can acknowledge that our word means nothing!!!


----------



## ianxgrant

*Law No.9 of 2009 (Law 13 update)*

Does anyone here have any direct experience yet of defaulting on a development and walking away from a 10 or 15% deposit?

The reason I ask this is because the laws so far only seem to mention retaining funds that have already been paid. It's difficult to get information on what happens when you just stop paying - What are the chances of the developers coming after you?

It is possible that the new Law will insist that 25% of the value of the project is given to the developer (as long as the Construction company are on site), which means that someone who has paid their first deposit will have to find more money, even to walk away! - How would that work?

I have paid 90% of my apartment in Sports City (luckily before the exchange rate changed) so feel lucky in that respect, but I know some people who bought into expensive developments and are very worried about the introduction of the new law. They have paid 10% (say of an 8M AED investment) and are worried that they will be liable for another 15%! If this is the case, then the courts had better be prepared for a lot of law suits. At the end of the day though, if the investors have *no* money, what is the worst that can happen?


----------



## DubaiExpat

I paid a 5 % deposit & later another 10% (2 x 5%) for a dubai property. The contract was not issued, even now. Several times approached the developer (an abu dhabi heavy weight) to cancel and get a refund - atleast a fraction of it, since the change in mortgage rules didn't allow me to go with the loan.

the developer isn't bothered at all. he has not served any notice for pending payments.

he also said rera rules do not apply for abu dhabi developers. i have given up my claims for the 250 K i have paid so far.

there are several reasons - 1) he might ask me to pay further to meet the minimum required to walk away 2) in the current situation i can't liquidate - i have tried by all means 3) current rates have dropped from the original purchase price


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> Good thing that 'agod' took out that RAK business visa.


yes but he paid around 30K and every year he has to pay the same amount or more

business (investor) visa still available anywhere in UAE just you have to pay.


----------



## Cyrus55

I am sure this kind of visa would not work to save real estate business; I think the market would never ever recover to the level of July 2007 again.
They should realise that UAE is not Europe or California that people like European would die for it! There are many other civilised countries where investors could invest their money without being worry for modifications of rules too often and usually against investors interest!


----------



## Imre

*No bar on realty visa renewals *

Published: May 04, 2009, 23:47

Abu Dhabi: The newly announced multiple entry visas for property owners may be renewed or re-issued any number of times as no limit has been set against it, officials announced on Monday.

On May 2, the Minister of Interior issued a decree which defines multiple entry visas for expatriate property owners whose investment is no less than Dh1 million. The decree applies across all the emirates in the UAE.

With the ruling taking effect, promises of residence visas while leasing some properties for 99 years, as it has been advertised by certain realtors, stand nullified. 

"The multiple entry visas have a validity of six months. This means the expatriate property owner may stay in the country for six months maximum at a time. But it may be renewed or a fresh visa could be applied any number of times, if the necessary conditions are met," said Brigadier Nasser Al Awadhi Al Minhali, Acting Director-General of Naturalisation and Residency Department. He was speaking at a press conference held to clarify the ruling, which stirred up public debate on its pros and cons.

"After spending six months in the country, the investor must leave the UAE to return to his home country or any of the GCC countries for at least a month before he is eligible to apply for a fresh multiple entry visa", he said.

Authorities will begin issuing the visa from June 1. "The visa costs Dh2,000 for processing. Additionally, the person must obtain health insurance for the duration of his stay in the country. Renewal also costs the same", said Brig Al Minhali.

During the investor's stay in the country, he or she may sponsor their immediate family - spouse and children. Health insurance is mandatory for all visitors. Cost of insurance is the same as the rates which apply for other types of visit visas, he said. Dispelling doubts on the impact of the ruling on the real estate market, Al Minhali said the decree has been well received by players in the market. "The legislation will help standardise the procedures across the country. It used to be very unorganised and changed from emirate to emirate." 

"In Dubai and Ajman where 99-year property leasing was possible, the immigration departments have been informed to legalise the stay of such property owners by issuing them with this new type of visas," Al Minhali told Gulf News, calling on such investors to visit the department.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10310753.html


----------



## Imre

smussuw said:


> Some clarification
> 
> Investors are eligible to have residence visa if they have several properties worth over million Dirhams.
> 
> The price is based on the purchase price; however; the investor can ask to calculate the worth of the property based on the market value.


if the price is based on the purchase price that is very good , I can sell my property and buy back in the next day for 1.1 million, and I already have more than 1 million purchase price


----------



## Nachkebia

Dh2,000 every six month? that`s great.... (sarcasm)


----------



## iced

*dubai as investment*

The recent fiasco with the visa rule just demonstrates that investing in emerging markets is high risk. Prices have fallen dramaticallly and will continue to fall gradually or stabalise by the end of next year. 

A lot of people on this forum seem upset and cheated. Well if you bought a property here as a home for retirement and visa then i think you do have a right to feel hard done by. 

However if you purchased property as a buy to let or investment then really the visa issue is really immaterial. The question then becomes is Dubai a good place to invest??

As an emerging market Dubai is high risk and reasons such as federal legislation etc add to this. Off plan and even semi constructed buildings are really high risk as they maybe delayed for years. 

So what about completed property, well thats maybe another ballgame. Worst case scenario most likely is that completed property prices fall another 20% say over the next year. Hopefully the visa fiasco speeds up this process for a bottom. Even if rents do fall another 25-40%, rent yields of 8%+ are achieveable. So with the possibility of capital appreciation next year (say around 0% in 2010 and 3% in 2011) as the credit markets globally unfreeze and lending starts, is dubai a good investment?

Well if you take a 8-10 year view then without doubt it will be a good investment. If however this is too long a view then dubai as a but to let investment is not for you.

We are pretty close to the bottom with further falls likely but not much more. Bailing out now of completed property will be seen in a few years time as selling close to the bottom. 

I think a lot of investors are now seriously looking for long term investments.


----------



## Wannaberich

iced said:


> However if you purchased property as a buy to let or investment then really the visa issue is really immaterial.


Totally disagree.This will have an impact on the potential buyers/renters of your unit.


----------



## iced

Wannaberich said:


> Totally disagree.This will have an impact on the potential buyers/renters of your unit.


Most renters will be working so visa is immaterial to them. Retirees will most likely need this visa and mostly likely will purchase their own place.


----------



## docc

Wannabe,

Why would it affect those interested in renting the unit?

Edit: Exactly my point (as iced mentioned)


----------



## smussuw

AltinD said:


> The UAE National Federal Council is discussing under closed doors the new set of Laws that deal with the imposing of the Martial Law and general mobilization of the local population.


yea, I was wondering about that :nuts:


----------



## Naz UK

They could of course save a great deal of time and just impose the rules that apply to labourers on the general populous. Should work just fine.


----------



## docc

AltinD said:


> The UAE National Federal Council is discussing under closed doors the new set of Laws that deal with the imposing of the Martial Law and *general mobilization of the local population*.


Can you be a little more specific please?


----------



## AltinD

^^ In case of a National Emergency being war or internal troubles. Nothing wrong with having such laws, since every country has them ... just the timming seams curious.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ timing curious in relation to what; global recession, new visa laws, Rihanna cancelling her concert :dunno:


----------



## Naz UK

So that means prior to now, if there had been a mass riot in the UAE the authorities would have had no clue how to deal with it? Why am I not surprised?

Incidentally, I heard Sheikh Issa is heading up the task force. Job's a good'un.


----------



## diveksa

*Dubai Rental Properties form Sherwoods*


----------



## Naz UK

Jeez, it's like 2005 all over again.


----------



## Wannaberich

How long before it goes the other way and the landlords start paying the tenants
or am I just being stupid?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

All property-ownership related visas in the UAE will not be renewed according to former rules, following the implementation on Sunday of new ministerial regulations governing multi-entry visas. These will not be limited to a specific number of renewals but conditions include departure and re-entry to and from the UAE. Renewals will cost Dhs2,000.


----------



## dirtyharry1

Meadows, JBR and Greens are even cheaper. Just rented out 2 large units 1 bed in JBR at 80K each - fully furnished, in Meadows 1 unit 4bed at 220K. Rents are expected to fall much further... at the end of 2009 there will be a tremendous oversupply.

At least the taffic is good now


----------



## Cyrus55

dirtyharry1 said:


> Meadows, JBR and Greens are even cheaper. Just rented out 2 large units 1 bed in JBR at 80K each - fully furnished, in Meadows 1 unit 4bed at 220K. Rents are expected to fall much further... at the end of 2009 there will be a tremendous oversupply.
> 
> At least the taffic is good now


Are these prices including service charges or excluding?


----------



## jagmp

i have got an offer of 60k for my 1 br marina apt.:bash: should i go ahead or wait.


----------



## docc

Cyrus55,

Service charges are paid for by the landlord.

Jagmp,

Which tower is your apartment in?


----------



## jagmp

MD 5


----------



## dbxdude

AltinD said:


> ^^ In case of a National Emergency being war or internal troubles. Nothing wrong with having such laws, since every country has them ... just the timming seams curious.


i know what this is about and its not about riots. Its a very strong warning to certain people to pick their socks up and much needed. Good stuff.


----------



## montranieri

jagmp said:


> MD 5


better you take it!!


----------



## Cayman

Jagmp,

I think it is a good price, considering that Diamond towers are smaller sized apartments.

1070 sqft one bed in JLT are going for 60K p.a.


----------



## smussuw

dbxdude said:


> i know what this is about and its not about riots. Its a very strong warning to certain people to pick their socks up and much needed. Good stuff.


who? what?


----------



## dbxdude

*if u think they will actually do this.....*

New law for settling property disputes

By Derek Baldwin, Senior Reporter
2 comments>
Add comment>

Full refunds will be given to investors of real estate development projects that are officially cancelled by government property regulators under a pending law, XPRESS has learnt.

Under Law No 9 of 2009, Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) has stipulated that if – after a thorough government review – a project is cancelled, all cash paid by buyers will be returned by developers upon termination of contract.

Effectiveness

Law No 9, which provides a sliding scale for refunds, has been signed and approved. The law however, only becomes official and legally binding once it gets published in Dubai’s official gazette.

Pull quote 

Rera will apply the law and give directions to developers on what steps to take. Mohammad Kamal, Head of Real Estate
Pull quote
Rera officials couldn’t be reached for comment by press time. The new rules amend previous laws and will frame new procedures for “terminations of sale and purchase agreements for off-plan units and will set the damages payable to the developer depending on the progress of construction”, according to Lovells law firm.

Lovells stated that if a “developer’s project is cancelled by Rera” the “purchaser shall be refunded all monies paid to date”.

The changes may help unravel months of uncertainty by investors who have faithfully continued to pay instalments to developers who failed to begin any construction on projects to which buyers legally signed contracts.

“Law 9 will provide significant guidance to the real estate market and will clarify the uncertainty on terminations and damages,” said Lovells.

Mohammad Kamal, Lovells Head of Real Estate Middle East, said the final version of the new law contains the full refund provision for cancelled projects only.

Kamal was part of a Rera working group that helped draft the new rules.

“Rera will apply the law and give directions to developers on what steps to take,” Kamal said, noting that arbitration won’t be needed because “the disputes would be settled under the law”. Compensation rate

As previously reported by XPRESS, the new law contains a sliding scale that spells out the rate of investor compensation to be paid by developers based upon the amount of construction completed.

Roughly 875 projects are now being visited by government inspectors across Dubai to determine the progress of each development.

The new law, meanwhile, dictates that all terminations “must be served through the Dubai Land Department and the purchaser shall be given 30 days to rectify a breach”.

Sliding scale

The following is the percentage of refunds as provided for in Law No 9:

* 80 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 100 per cent of cash he/she has paid to date
* 60 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 40 per cent of purchase price
* Less than 60 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 25 per cent of purchase price
* Construction hasn’t started: Buyer forfeits 30 per cent of cash he/she has paid to date
* When project is officially cancelled by Rera: Buyer shall be refunded all cash he/she has paid to date.

(Source: Lovells)


----------



## V Kapoor

dbxdude said:


> Sliding scale
> 
> The following is the percentage of refunds as provided for in Law No 9:
> 
> * 80 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 100 per cent of cash he/she has paid to date
> * 60 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 40 per cent of purchase price
> * Less than 60 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 25 per cent of purchase price
> * Construction hasn’t started: Buyer forfeits 30 per cent of cash he/she has paid to date
> * When project is officially cancelled by Rera: Buyer shall be refunded all cash he/she has paid to date.
> 
> (Source: Lovells)


What good is an 80% or 60% complete project to a home buyer......well nothing!

If the developer abandons a project after it is 80% complete, its value to the buyer is Nil, and yet the buyer forfeits 100%!!:nuts:
Edit: (Payment plans are not linked to construction / completion. If developer delays, buyer cannot postpone payments, lest he be declared a defaulter).
Non completion is a breach of contract in totality, and logically should entitle the buyer a 100% refund after the point of long stop date as stated in the contract. 

This really is a weird place as far as laws and their interpretation(s) are concerned. Every day is a new beginning for the legal system!!!
:nuts:hno:

Edit: Figured out that this law actually is on how to penalise defaulting buyers...... which is the law for defaulting developers???


----------



## Porcello

V Kapoor said:


> Non completion is a breach of contract in totality, and logically should entitle the buyer a 100% refund after the point of long stop date as stated in the contract.


I don't think this law affects the total refund due in case a developer fails to deliver units before the maximum allowed delay specified in a contract.


----------



## V Kapoor

Porcello said:


> I don't think this law affects the total refund due in case a developer fails to deliver units before the maximum allowed delay specified in a contract.


Thats the problem everybody thinks! And mostly differently! 
At times different different offices of the govt. think differently too about the same "law"! 

There are many instances where the developer has unilaterally even "decided" to change the long stop date (without any sort of consent or even consultation with the buyer) to justify delays on his part quoting "force majure" as the cause to avoid paying delay compensation, howsoever explicitly the compensation clause having been stated in the contract.

The contract itself seems to be of use to the extent it states in it the names of the seller and buyer. Rest of it, howsoever long and detailed it might be, is almost always violated by developers in some form or the other, be it delay, be it visa assurance, be it quality.......


Edit: Though this Law 9 deals with defaulting buyers......just figured it out!


----------



## blackberry2k

Hi Hashu,
I also have a 1BR in building 69. they have finished the slab upto 1st floor. does anyone have an idea about how much we ll be paying as community fees every year ?


----------



## jagmp

Cayman said:


> Jagmp,
> 
> I think it is a good price, considering that Diamond towers are smaller sized apartments.
> 
> 1070 sqft one bed in JLT are going for 60K p.a.


you are right.but MD 1 and 2 are much smaller than 5 and 6 .they are quite reasonable size if not very large.

thanks anyways.i have three weeks before present tenent leaving. i might consider the offer.


----------



## Hanna

*RERA Dubai - Panel to identify unviable projects for cancellation*

Thursday, May 7, 2009
RERA Dubai - Panel to identify unviable projects for cancellation 

source Business24-7

Dubai Thursday, May 07, 2009

The Dubai Land Department and the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) have set up a committee that will decide on cancellation of "unviable" projects, senior department officials said yesterday.

Addressing an investors' meeting, officials said a committee has been formed to study and analyse non-feasible projects.

"It is a tedious task and requires a lot of paper work. But the committee has been created to address the issue," a senior official said.

Ludmila Yamalova, Partner, Mac Davidson Legal Consultants, who was present at the meeting, told Emirates Business that officials admitted project cancellations were not under their purview earlier, but amendments to Law No13 regulating the Interim Real Estate Register in Dubai now allows them to cancel projects that they deem not feasible.

In February, Rera Chief Executive Officer Marwan bin Ghalita said he believes 25 per cent of the projects will be cancelled, as developers did not start them or don't have an intention to begin. However, he could not be reached for comment on the number of developers requesting cancellation.

The officials further told investors that the detailed regulations for Article 11 of Law No13, which lays down the terms for cancellations of "off plan" properties, will be announced soon and will explain terms such as "beyond developers control" in detail.

According to Yamalova, the authorities said developers will no longer be allowed to retain any money on reselling of units on termination of investors' contract.

"Developers will no longer have any incentive to cancel contracts, as the money received on the resold unit will have to be deposited with the trust account of the Land Department," she added.

Besides, Rera is also ensuring all amended payment schedules from developers need to be approved by them, with it planning to upload all payment plans on their website.

According to Rera statistics, 31,003 and 43,880 units will enter the market in 2009 and 2010, respectively. 

However, it believes 20 per cent of residential units may not enter the market this year. 

In February, it said the number of developers has come down from about 870 to 427.


----------



## Wannaberich

^^
Cancellation of projects is only good news.25% is not enough however.
Its a shame this committee doesnt cancel a large percentage themselves.
Hopefully far more developers will cancel then they anticipate.


----------



## Hanna

*Construction firms owed billions*

Construction firms owed billions
Angela Giuffrida 

Last Updated: May 07. 2009 7:41PM UAE / May 7. 2009 3:41PM GMT Construction firms in Dubai say they are having to either accept reduced payments, or risk not getting paid at all.

Riad Kamal, the chief executive of Arabtec Holding, the UAE’s largest construction company, told Reuters yesterday the company had outstanding invoices of about Dh3 billion (US$817 million), of which nearly 80 per cent was due from the Dubai Government or related entities. Arabtec is hoping to meet government officials next week to discuss the payments.

“We feel quite secure the money is going to come eventually. It’s a question of if it’s going to come in good time to be able to sustain the outlook and commitments that we have with our suppliers and sub-contractors,” Mr Kamal said.

Some firms are making provisions for bills that may never be paid. A spokesman for a UK consultant with a large presence in Dubai said the company was owed Dh4.8m and had been asked by some developers for discounts.

“Payment from developers in Dubai is not happening at all,” he said. “Some of them asked for a discount, which we agreed to on condition that payment would be made within five days. But it didn’t happen, and we’ve been waiting since December. I know of another consultant who’s owed Dh12 million.”

He said that contract fees on some ongoing projects had been cut by about 40 per cent and that while the company was hunting for other work to compensate for the losses, “things are very slow”.

Another consultant said: “Clients have been making consultants offers to take discounts on their payments, and if they don’t accept, they simply don’t get paid.”

Profits have been worst hit among companies that were working on some of the emirate’s more ambitious developments.

The Dubai subsidiary of WSP Group, a British engineering firm, was the lead consultant on Nakheel’s Tall Tower, a project planned to exceed the height of the current tallest building in the world, Burj Dubai. The project is now on hold.

WSP’s new finance director, Peter Gill, told Bloomberg on Wednesday that the company was owed Dh165m from clients in Dubai. 

He said the company has created a provision of about Dh44m for money that it may not collect and that 40 per cent of staff in the Middle East would be made redundant by the end of next month.

Bovis Lend Lease, the project manager on Nakheel’s suspended Trump International Hotel and Tower project, is also struggling to get paid although a company insider said it was “taking steps towards being paid”.

The problems come despite government-backed developers tapping into a Dh36.7bn bond issue, fully subscribed by the Central Bank. 

While some of the large contractors, such as Arabtec Construction, Al Habtoor Leighton Group and Al Jaber Engineering and Contracting say they have started to see payments trickling through, the money is yet to make its way to others down the line. 

Consultancies also face a tougher situation when it comes to trying to recover losses through potentially costly court cases, with few likely to take such action, according to Michael Grose, a partner at the law firm Clyde and Co.

“Consultants are certainly feeling the pain but they are slower than most to take legal action,” he said. “This is because their businesses are mainly based on relationships, so do they want to risk that? Also, they tend to have less cash to fund legal action, unlike contractors and suppliers, who tend to be more cash-rich.”


----------



## Naz UK

^^ Well what'dya know, there's a surprise!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I thought there was a law in Dubai where non payment of debts leads to a jail sentence.


----------



## Mistermark

Hanna said:


> Construction firms owed billions
> Angela Giuffrida
> 
> Last Updated: May 07. 2009 7:41PM UAE / May 7. 2009 3:41PM GMT Construction firms in Dubai say they are having to either accept reduced payments, or risk not getting paid at all.
> 
> Riad Kamal, the chief executive of Arabtec Holding, the UAE’s largest construction company, told Reuters yesterday the company had outstanding invoices of about Dh3 billion (US$817 million), of which nearly 80 per cent was due from the Dubai Government or related entities. Arabtec is hoping to meet government officials next week to discuss the payments.
> 
> “We feel quite secure the money is going to come eventually. It’s a question of if it’s going to come in good time to be able to sustain the outlook and commitments that we have with our suppliers and sub-contractors,” Mr Kamal said.
> 
> Some firms are making provisions for bills that may never be paid. A spokesman for a UK consultant with a large presence in Dubai said the company was owed Dh4.8m and had been asked by some developers for discounts.
> 
> “Payment from developers in Dubai is not happening at all,” he said. “Some of them asked for a discount, which we agreed to on condition that payment would be made within five days. But it didn’t happen, and we’ve been waiting since December. I know of another consultant who’s owed Dh12 million.”
> 
> He said that contract fees on some ongoing projects had been cut by about 40 per cent and that while the company was hunting for other work to compensate for the losses, “things are very slow”.
> 
> Another consultant said: “Clients have been making consultants offers to take discounts on their payments, and if they don’t accept, they simply don’t get paid.”
> 
> Profits have been worst hit among companies that were working on some of the emirate’s more ambitious developments.
> 
> The Dubai subsidiary of WSP Group, a British engineering firm, was the lead consultant on Nakheel’s Tall Tower, a project planned to exceed the height of the current tallest building in the world, Burj Dubai. The project is now on hold.
> 
> WSP’s new finance director, Peter Gill, told Bloomberg on Wednesday that the company was owed Dh165m from clients in Dubai.
> 
> He said the company has created a provision of about Dh44m for money that it may not collect and that 40 per cent of staff in the Middle East would be made redundant by the end of next month.
> 
> Bovis Lend Lease, the project manager on Nakheel’s suspended Trump International Hotel and Tower project, is also struggling to get paid although a company insider said it was “taking steps towards being paid”.
> 
> The problems come despite government-backed developers tapping into a Dh36.7bn bond issue, fully subscribed by the Central Bank.
> 
> While some of the large contractors, such as Arabtec Construction, Al Habtoor Leighton Group and Al Jaber Engineering and Contracting say they have started to see payments trickling through, the money is yet to make its way to others down the line.
> 
> Consultancies also face a tougher situation when it comes to trying to recover losses through potentially costly court cases, with few likely to take such action, according to Michael Grose, a partner at the law firm Clyde and Co.
> 
> “Consultants are certainly feeling the pain but they are slower than most to take legal action,” he said. “This is because their businesses are mainly based on relationships, so do they want to risk that? Also, they tend to have less cash to fund legal action, unlike contractors and suppliers, who tend to be more cash-rich.”


I suspect that, as a consequence, Western companies will now deal with UAE ones, including/especially those linked to the government, on the basis of payment up front.

Given that property purchasers will also now be wary of making advanced payments, the country will surely have to move towards the model of borrowing the cost of land and construction, rather than relying on staged payments from purchasers and trade credit from suppliers.

With the current problems of bank liquidity, this could result in construction in Dubai being in abeyance for some while. Ultimately, this could be good for owners of completed property, because it will be some while before there's a meaningful increase in supply beyond what's already under construction.


----------



## smussuw

^^ yes if they filed a complaint to the police :yes:


----------



## Naz UK

Dubai_Steve said:


> I thought there was a law in Dubai where non payment of debts leads to a jail sentence.


Jeez Steve, I thought you of all ppl would know something about that! That law only applies to individuals. And that too, mostly expats. And those expats - mostly poor, labourers, and for some reason a lot of Africans. (An observation made my one of our reporters back in 2007 during an organised PR visit).


----------



## nri-hotels

Just posting a few comments from the Arabian Business.com article about the new residency visa rule.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index.php?option=com_allcomments&articleid=554355

Please do not repost thankyou


Posted on Friday, 8 May 2009
to Roqaya "Permanent Residency"

Posted by Doc at 06:15 UAE time

Dear Madam,

Don't you think there is a day and night difference between permanent residency and a 6 month visa? This is definitely a cultural thing. You obviously can not see what is happening due to your cultural background. No body is asking for permanent residency here. They are merely asking for something REASONABLE and more practical and less costly. How would you like to invest 1,000,000 Dirham in a country and then every 6 months be forced to take your children out of school, pay for all the trip expenses, pay 2,000 DH per person ( a total cost of at least 20,000 DH for a family of four!!), leave the country, pay for health insurance and not know exactly how much time your children will be missing school and when you will be returning!!??.

I know, it is very hard for you to put yourself in that position. By the way, what is wrong to expect permanent residency in due time? All civilized countries in the world do it. To name a few, USA, Canada, Australia and many other countries will all grant permanent residency for investments in their countries.

Here is something to think about. If all the expats left and invested in their own countries, what do you think will happen to you and the rest of this country? I am sure again you can not put yourself in that situation. Open mindedness ia a beautiful thing that is sorely missed here.

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT


Posted on Thursday, 7 May 2009
Visa for Money

Posted by abdul Haque at 20:55 UAE time

I am happy to see many comments on this topics some are positive and some are negative () Specially I would like to invite to the attention of Ms. Roqaya Almousa that investors should content with the six month renewable visa ( ) I would also like to emphasize on her that the Dubai now was not before 10 years as she has been witnessing to see ( ) Due to the internationl workforce efforts Dubai has become known place i n the World
( ) The confidence has been shuttered by insnsistency of reulations where the laws changes every week or month or quarter so the Investor has become scared in investing any money in Dubai ( ) Ms. Roqaya you should open your eyes in the developments of the are and the peoples who made this land
worth ( )

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT


Posted on Tuesday, 5 May 2009
Caveat Emptor

Posted by lakshman Dalpadado at 15:25 UAE time

In fact a well known British Real estate company told me that I could get full residency visa if I bought a property in RAK and register a company in RAK- FTZ.

But when I asked them about what happens if RAK-FTZ did not renew the license because the company for the simple reason that it is not conducting any business ( they can and they will) the company had no answer.

I have been traveling through Dubai since 1980s and six years ago, when property boom was in it's infancy, I went and saw many properties including properties from developers like Damac, Eemar and SABA, But none of the property agents were able to answer my questions with any certainty about, the property details, inheritance, death duties, maintenance charges, etc. In fact when I asked one British agent what would happen to the property if I die suddenly without a will , she said - funny, you are the first person to ask that question- and she has been working in Dubai for year!

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT


Posted on Monday, 4 May 2009
Be consistent

Posted by AVH at 22:21 UAE time

The fact is that from the very beginning, the key elements relevant to ownership such as eligibility to own, physical access to property (as in visa rules), succession, dispute resolution, juridictions, etc., have been subject to varying degrees of ambiguity. This has been further exacerbated by inconsistent legislation and muddy interpretation.

Risk is acceptable to any investor as it should be. That is given. Now, risk owing to market forces is one thing but risk due to inconsistent legislation is unpredictable and therefore unacceptable. If laws change every week or month or quarter, as has been the case here, the fine details matter little because the message going out loud and clear, inadvertantly or otherwise, is that the investment is simply too risky.

Looking at all this mess I feel vindicated at having resolutely refused to invest in property all these years, though somewhere in my mind, perhaps for the sake of the old, simple and charming Dubai of the 90's that I loved so much, I wish I was wrong.

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
No Permanent Residency

Posted by Roqaya Al Moussa at 21:43 UAE time

What do you want? Permanent residency akin to citizenship? Don't forget that you were too naive buying a property far above its real value but you cannot buy the UAE so be content with this six-month renewable residency visa. Proerties may be for sale, but not this nation. If you want citizenship, then better return and invest in your own countries. Expats and their never ending demands and whining.........

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
Visa for money!!!

Posted by Arjun at 14:52 UAE time

I'm glad to see so many comments on this topic here......but i would also like to say that if you can read what John Smith has written then it would make sense for all of us who are complaining. I'm not trying to say do it but it does make sense to think about it rather than whining and complaining which fetches nothing. The rules and regulations will always be in favour of the locals which i totally agree with them because they should feel alienated in their own backyard but at the same time since the inception of globalizing the brand "DUBAI" there is no planning for long term. Everything is advance, advance and advance which is totally understood as there are many nationalities working together and one cannot be trusted for each others verbal commitments. But hey on the contrary the govt. can do something to re-instate some confidence in the expats living here by doing a few things which may help in one or the other way but frankly i dont see that happening and i am not complaining either. I dont want a citizenship but hey atleast give me to think about investing in something here for a long term. Rules cannot be decided today and twisted tomorrow. Something has to change rapidly and i hope someone from the govt. is reading this, i dont expect things to change because of this column but atleast if the message goes through that's more than enough.

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
The Kamikaze Act

Posted by Sam at 13:49 UAE time

Hey Guys welcome to the real world.

I was unfortunate (rather stupid) to have bought a property in Dubai and that too on a land mark, The Palm Jumeria.

I find it ludicrous and out right insulting when reading the alleged residency rights the UAE gvt is proposing. I hope the gvt understands that they can not afford to upset the ex pats, be they from the sub continent or the west, as they are the ones who have built the city. With the current global economic climate, the UAE will need to aggressively sell the country with incentives rather than hurdles.

I for one hope the final ruling will be more compassionate and humanly freindly

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
What About Lease-Hold

Posted by Ayman at 12:56 UAE time

I wonder if this law applies to lease-hold properties as well - if not, i guess the owners of lease-hold like myself will never be able to off-load the properties if moving out of the UAE !

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
Thumbs Up for the team

Posted by Jebel Ali Baba at 12:06 UAE time

As you said: Most sites wouldn't publish these comments. Only good news are news for them. So the thumbs up is for Arabian Business and its team for understanding the freedom of speach as well as the freedom of press.

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
Would like to that the editors at ArabianBusiness for publishing all these comments

Posted by Andy at 08:31 UAE time

Most other online sites in the UAE would not allow such posts. This is a great welcome to freedom of speech that allows people in the UAE to voice their opinions about how they feel about the current laws and regulations in the UAE. Big thumbs up for all those who posted here.

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
Amazing spin masters

Posted by Jean-Marie Moussalli at 08:10 UAE time

They called this new freehold visa law a landmark ruling that will go great lengths in restoring investor confidence in the emirate's real estate market... HA YEAH!!! Restoring investor confidence for sure; 6 months entry visa with tons of conditions as opposed to lifetime residency... Yeah that ought to do it!!! That should reassure the expats who thought they'd retire here, or the businessmen who would invest or the many a couple who made this country their home and wanted to insure they can continue living their dream under the sun.... Way to go spinners!

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT


Posted on Sunday, 3 May 2009
residency laws too restrictive!

Posted by FB at 01:12 UAE time

old timer,

appreciate the uae innitiatives. but the real problem is not justifying about property laws in other countries.

the real problem, let us admit is the residency laws in uae is too restrictive and doesnt offer the best of opportunity for the country and the employees with the the three year cap and sponsorship as the best expats do not come to uae.

The freehold property looked liked the best route to long term residency in a country which doesnt offer them. This was the real reason many bought during 2002 approximately. But the govt was clever. they kept building as far as people kept buying. But in realty there was no real buying, only merely bookings only by paying partial payment for speculation ( I know this becoz i worked in the sector )

for the real estate to sustain, you need end user buyers! and where are they with the residency caps!

CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
To Ben and others...

Posted by Old Timer at 00:19 UAE time

Yeah, you can blame age for forgetting...some promises are made and met, and others are made and never kept...no one to blame but oneself...people took a gamble, took a risk - those who made lots of money in the initial years, did not mind the constant changes in the laws...ambiguities, lack of clarity and inconsistencies...the progression of the ownership law evolved, and it will continue to evolve...the laws were never clear, and every emirate had its own rule and a federal law was never issued...99 year lease, then it was freehold, then residency visa, then no residency visa...etc.

Western Expats continue to be pampered in the GCC, still making more money than they ever dreamed of, or can ever in their own countries, and if any of us had better opportunities in our own countries, we would have never left - no one here is working for free and with all the complaining and all the "things you don't like" about UAE, this is still a better place to be than 100s other places in the world!

The writing on the wall is clear - You are welcome to Stay but this is our country our rules....love it or leave it...




Posted by jai at 23:53 UAE time

YET ANOTHER CONFUESD LAW.

Multi-entery visa

Posted by Dr Basmadji at 22:32 UAE time

May be all these comments should be sent to the Minster of interior hoping this new law be changed .Responsible Minister should take into account the outrage comments from the property owners


----------



## Cyrus55

nri-hotels said:


> Just posting a few comments from the Arabian Business.com article about the new residency visa rule.
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index.php?option=com_allcomments&articleid=554355
> 
> Please do not repost thankyou
> 
> 
> Posted on Friday, 8 May 2009
> to Roqaya "Permanent Residency"
> 
> Posted by Doc at 06:15 UAE time
> 
> Dear Madam,
> 
> Don't you think there is a day and night difference between permanent residency and a 6 month visa? This is definitely a cultural thing. You obviously can not see what is happening due to your cultural background. No body is asking for permanent residency here. They are merely asking for something REASONABLE and more practical and less costly. How would you like to invest 1,000,000 Dirham in a country and then every 6 months be forced to take your children out of school, pay for all the trip expenses, pay 2,000 DH per person ( a total cost of at least 20,000 DH for a family of four!!), leave the country, pay for health insurance and not know exactly how much time your children will be missing school and when you will be returning!!??.
> 
> I know, it is very hard for you to put yourself in that position. By the way, what is wrong to expect permanent residency in due time? All civilized countries in the world do it. To name a few, USA, Canada, Australia and many other countries will all grant permanent residency for investments in their countries.
> 
> Here is something to think about. If all the expats left and invested in their own countries, what do you think will happen to you and the rest of this country? I am sure again you can not put yourself in that situation. Open mindedness ia a beautiful thing that is sorely missed here.
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> 
> 
> Posted on Thursday, 7 May 2009
> Visa for Money
> 
> Posted by abdul Haque at 20:55 UAE time
> 
> I am happy to see many comments on this topics some are positive and some are negative () Specially I would like to invite to the attention of Ms. Roqaya Almousa that investors should content with the six month renewable visa ( ) I would also like to emphasize on her that the Dubai now was not before 10 years as she has been witnessing to see ( ) Due to the internationl workforce efforts Dubai has become known place i n the World
> ( ) The confidence has been shuttered by insnsistency of reulations where the laws changes every week or month or quarter so the Investor has become scared in investing any money in Dubai ( ) Ms. Roqaya you should open your eyes in the developments of the are and the peoples who made this land
> worth ( )
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> 
> 
> Posted on Tuesday, 5 May 2009
> Caveat Emptor
> 
> Posted by lakshman Dalpadado at 15:25 UAE time
> 
> In fact a well known British Real estate company told me that I could get full residency visa if I bought a property in RAK and register a company in RAK- FTZ.
> 
> But when I asked them about what happens if RAK-FTZ did not renew the license because the company for the simple reason that it is not conducting any business ( they can and they will) the company had no answer.
> 
> I have been traveling through Dubai since 1980s and six years ago, when property boom was in it's infancy, I went and saw many properties including properties from developers like Damac, Eemar and SABA, But none of the property agents were able to answer my questions with any certainty about, the property details, inheritance, death duties, maintenance charges, etc. In fact when I asked one British agent what would happen to the property if I die suddenly without a will , she said - funny, you are the first person to ask that question- and she has been working in Dubai for year!
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> 
> 
> Posted on Monday, 4 May 2009
> Be consistent
> 
> Posted by AVH at 22:21 UAE time
> 
> The fact is that from the very beginning, the key elements relevant to ownership such as eligibility to own, physical access to property (as in visa rules), succession, dispute resolution, juridictions, etc., have been subject to varying degrees of ambiguity. This has been further exacerbated by inconsistent legislation and muddy interpretation.
> 
> Risk is acceptable to any investor as it should be. That is given. Now, risk owing to market forces is one thing but risk due to inconsistent legislation is unpredictable and therefore unacceptable. If laws change every week or month or quarter, as has been the case here, the fine details matter little because the message going out loud and clear, inadvertantly or otherwise, is that the investment is simply too risky.
> 
> Looking at all this mess I feel vindicated at having resolutely refused to invest in property all these years, though somewhere in my mind, perhaps for the sake of the old, simple and charming Dubai of the 90's that I loved so much, I wish I was wrong.
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> No Permanent Residency
> 
> Posted by Roqaya Al Moussa at 21:43 UAE time
> 
> What do you want? Permanent residency akin to citizenship? Don't forget that you were too naive buying a property far above its real value but you cannot buy the UAE so be content with this six-month renewable residency visa. Proerties may be for sale, but not this nation. If you want citizenship, then better return and invest in your own countries. Expats and their never ending demands and whining.........
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> Visa for money!!!
> 
> Posted by Arjun at 14:52 UAE time
> 
> I'm glad to see so many comments on this topic here......but i would also like to say that if you can read what John Smith has written then it would make sense for all of us who are complaining. I'm not trying to say do it but it does make sense to think about it rather than whining and complaining which fetches nothing. The rules and regulations will always be in favour of the locals which i totally agree with them because they should feel alienated in their own backyard but at the same time since the inception of globalizing the brand "DUBAI" there is no planning for long term. Everything is advance, advance and advance which is totally understood as there are many nationalities working together and one cannot be trusted for each others verbal commitments. But hey on the contrary the govt. can do something to re-instate some confidence in the expats living here by doing a few things which may help in one or the other way but frankly i dont see that happening and i am not complaining either. I dont want a citizenship but hey atleast give me to think about investing in something here for a long term. Rules cannot be decided today and twisted tomorrow. Something has to change rapidly and i hope someone from the govt. is reading this, i dont expect things to change because of this column but atleast if the message goes through that's more than enough.
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> The Kamikaze Act
> 
> Posted by Sam at 13:49 UAE time
> 
> Hey Guys welcome to the real world.
> 
> I was unfortunate (rather stupid) to have bought a property in Dubai and that too on a land mark, The Palm Jumeria.
> 
> I find it ludicrous and out right insulting when reading the alleged residency rights the UAE gvt is proposing. I hope the gvt understands that they can not afford to upset the ex pats, be they from the sub continent or the west, as they are the ones who have built the city. With the current global economic climate, the UAE will need to aggressively sell the country with incentives rather than hurdles.
> 
> I for one hope the final ruling will be more compassionate and humanly freindly
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> What About Lease-Hold
> 
> Posted by Ayman at 12:56 UAE time
> 
> I wonder if this law applies to lease-hold properties as well - if not, i guess the owners of lease-hold like myself will never be able to off-load the properties if moving out of the UAE !
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> Thumbs Up for the team
> 
> Posted by Jebel Ali Baba at 12:06 UAE time
> 
> As you said: Most sites wouldn't publish these comments. Only good news are news for them. So the thumbs up is for Arabian Business and its team for understanding the freedom of speach as well as the freedom of press.
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> Would like to that the editors at ArabianBusiness for publishing all these comments
> 
> Posted by Andy at 08:31 UAE time
> 
> Most other online sites in the UAE would not allow such posts. This is a great welcome to freedom of speech that allows people in the UAE to voice their opinions about how they feel about the current laws and regulations in the UAE. Big thumbs up for all those who posted here.
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> Amazing spin masters
> 
> Posted by Jean-Marie Moussalli at 08:10 UAE time
> 
> They called this new freehold visa law a landmark ruling that will go great lengths in restoring investor confidence in the emirate's real estate market... HA YEAH!!! Restoring investor confidence for sure; 6 months entry visa with tons of conditions as opposed to lifetime residency... Yeah that ought to do it!!! That should reassure the expats who thought they'd retire here, or the businessmen who would invest or the many a couple who made this country their home and wanted to insure they can continue living their dream under the sun.... Way to go spinners!
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> 
> 
> Posted on Sunday, 3 May 2009
> residency laws too restrictive!
> 
> Posted by FB at 01:12 UAE time
> 
> old timer,
> 
> appreciate the uae innitiatives. but the real problem is not justifying about property laws in other countries.
> 
> the real problem, let us admit is the residency laws in uae is too restrictive and doesnt offer the best of opportunity for the country and the employees with the the three year cap and sponsorship as the best expats do not come to uae.
> 
> The freehold property looked liked the best route to long term residency in a country which doesnt offer them. This was the real reason many bought during 2002 approximately. But the govt was clever. they kept building as far as people kept buying. But in realty there was no real buying, only merely bookings only by paying partial payment for speculation ( I know this becoz i worked in the sector )
> 
> for the real estate to sustain, you need end user buyers! and where are they with the residency caps!
> 
> CLICK HERE TO POST A COMMENT
> To Ben and others...
> 
> Posted by Old Timer at 00:19 UAE time
> 
> Yeah, you can blame age for forgetting...some promises are made and met, and others are made and never kept...no one to blame but oneself...people took a gamble, took a risk - those who made lots of money in the initial years, did not mind the constant changes in the laws...ambiguities, lack of clarity and inconsistencies...the progression of the ownership law evolved, and it will continue to evolve...the laws were never clear, and every emirate had its own rule and a federal law was never issued...99 year lease, then it was freehold, then residency visa, then no residency visa...etc.
> 
> Western Expats continue to be pampered in the GCC, still making more money than they ever dreamed of, or can ever in their own countries, and if any of us had better opportunities in our own countries, we would have never left - no one here is working for free and with all the complaining and all the "things you don't like" about UAE, this is still a better place to be than 100s other places in the world!
> 
> The writing on the wall is clear - You are welcome to Stay but this is our country our rules....love it or leave it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted by jai at 23:53 UAE time
> 
> YET ANOTHER CONFUESD LAW.
> 
> Multi-entery visa
> 
> Posted by Dr Basmadji at 22:32 UAE time
> 
> May be all these comments should be sent to the Minster of interior hoping this new law be changed .Responsible Minister should take into account the outrage comments from the property owners


I am sure there are differences among Emirates regarding visa issues, but Abu Dhabi got money and power!


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai and Ajman to merge property database

The property watchdogs in Ajman and Dubai have got together to identify the blacklisted developers and agents, and hence have agreed to co-ordinate data in both emirates.

An MOU to this effect was signed between ARRA (Ajman Real Estate Regulatory Agency) and Dubai's RERA (Real Estate Regulatory Agency).

The Chief of Dubai RERA, Marwan bin Ghalita, said that "We will share the same database of agents and developers. If any developer is blacklisted in Dubai, it will also be reflected on their database, and they will be aware of it."

This move follows receipt of complaints that estate agents were working in both emirates, but have been registered with only one.

"We will regulate this kind of activities between the agents too. The establishment of common database will give developers and regulators and investors a clear picture of the market" Ghalita said.

The database will be made available online for people to view. The database is almost ready and will be released soon, said Omar al Barguthi, Head of ARRA.

Via RERA


----------



## Naz UK

Wow! That is an absolutely amazing accomplishment!

I mean, who'd have ever thought, two similar organisation, but from totally different states, er, within the same sovereign country, a full 20 miles apart from one another, would one day, co-operate and share databases. Probably a first for any country, ever, that. Amazing stuff. And I just found out they even speak the same language! Smashing!


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## jagmp

^^
:hilarious:applause:


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## ragga

Dubai_Steve said:


> I thought there was a law in Dubai where non payment of debts leads to a jail sentence.


Unfortunately, living in Dubai, you have to deal with all sides of the spectrum. There are many advantages, in my opinion, that far outweigh the disadvantages. However a main disadvantage is that the law does not apply to everyone.


----------



## hourad

ragga said:


> Unfortunately, living in Dubai, you have to deal with all sides of the spectrum. There are many advantages, in my opinion, that far outweigh the disadvantages. However a main disadvantage is that the law does not apply to everyone.


I'm agree with you. 
We have not seen only black point of Dubai. There are so many advantages in Dubai. UAE is part of Meddle East and we have compared it with other close countries to UAE. UAE is far away (economy and human life style) from USA and Europeans country but try to reach. This trying is laudable.


----------



## montranieri

hourad said:


> I'm agree with you.
> We have not seen only black point of Dubai. There are so many advantages in Dubai. UAE is part of Meddle East and we have compared it with other close countries to UAE. UAE is far away (economy and human life style) from USA and Europeans country but try to reach. This trying is laudable.


But still not enough! And when arabs goes to live in Europe and USA they have te same rights of others and they enjoy this security.


----------



## dbxdude

Hanna said:


> Construction firms owed billions
> Angela Giuffrida
> 
> Last Updated: May 07. 2009 7:41PM UAE / May 7. 2009 3:41PM GMT Construction firms in Dubai say they are having to either accept reduced payments, or risk not getting paid at all.
> 
> Riad Kamal, the chief executive of Arabtec Holding, the UAE’s largest construction company, told Reuters yesterday the company had outstanding invoices of about Dh3 billion (US$817 million), of which nearly 80 per cent was due from the Dubai Government or related entities. Arabtec is hoping to meet government officials next week to discuss the payments.
> 
> “We feel quite secure the money is going to come eventually. It’s a question of if it’s going to come in good time to be able to sustain the outlook and commitments that we have with our suppliers and sub-contractors,” Mr Kamal said.
> 
> Some firms are making provisions for bills that may never be paid. A spokesman for a UK consultant with a large presence in Dubai said the company was owed Dh4.8m and had been asked by some developers for discounts.
> 
> “Payment from developers in Dubai is not happening at all,” he said. “Some of them asked for a discount, which we agreed to on condition that payment would be made within five days. But it didn’t happen, and we’ve been waiting since December. I know of another consultant who’s owed Dh12 million.”
> 
> He said that contract fees on some ongoing projects had been cut by about 40 per cent and that while the company was hunting for other work to compensate for the losses, “things are very slow”.
> 
> Another consultant said: “Clients have been making consultants offers to take discounts on their payments, and if they don’t accept, they simply don’t get paid.”
> 
> Profits have been worst hit among companies that were working on some of the emirate’s more ambitious developments.
> 
> The Dubai subsidiary of WSP Group, a British engineering firm, was the lead consultant on Nakheel’s Tall Tower, a project planned to exceed the height of the current tallest building in the world, Burj Dubai. The project is now on hold.
> 
> WSP’s new finance director, Peter Gill, told Bloomberg on Wednesday that the company was owed Dh165m from clients in Dubai.
> 
> He said the company has created a provision of about Dh44m for money that it may not collect and that 40 per cent of staff in the Middle East would be made redundant by the end of next month.
> 
> Bovis Lend Lease, the project manager on Nakheel’s suspended Trump International Hotel and Tower project, is also struggling to get paid although a company insider said it was “taking steps towards being paid”.
> 
> The problems come despite government-backed developers tapping into a Dh36.7bn bond issue, fully subscribed by the Central Bank.
> 
> While some of the large contractors, such as Arabtec Construction, Al Habtoor Leighton Group and Al Jaber Engineering and Contracting say they have started to see payments trickling through, the money is yet to make its way to others down the line.
> 
> Consultancies also face a tougher situation when it comes to trying to recover losses through potentially costly court cases, with few likely to take such action, according to Michael Grose, a partner at the law firm Clyde and Co.
> 
> “Consultants are certainly feeling the pain but they are slower than most to take legal action,” he said. “This is because their businesses are mainly based on relationships, so do they want to risk that? Also, they tend to have less cash to fund legal action, unlike contractors and suppliers, who tend to be more cash-rich.”


What sort of a management lets anyone amass bills of 3B dhs. What a bunch of geniuses. . . doesnt matter if its a partial govt entity, it aint the central bank or the govt directly. You know what management let bills run up this high - greedy, bonus motivated people that's who. take them years to get it, even then the debitor is in a great position to dictate terms and reduce the amount...


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## Imre

I went to the DMCC office today, they are not giving property residence visa any more.

I heard all property visa will be cancelled soon, its true?


----------



## paul66

*DLD to cancel four projects as developers fail to meet guidelines*

*Does anyone know which 4 projects are cancelled?....*
Dubai Land Department (DLD) is set to cancel projects of four property developers, a senior government official said.

"It has become difficult for those developers to meet the conditions in line with the regulations of Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), after the grace period ended. Rera will cancel their projects," Director-General Sultan Butti bin Mijrin told Emarat Al Youm.

"The developers are required by law to return investors' money. They have lands, which can be sold to return the money. In addition, Rera can organise the process of re-funding in case the money is unavailable.

On May 6, Emirates Business reported that the Dubai Land Department and Rera had set up a committee that will decide on cancellation of "unviable" projects.

He said a system to electronically link developers with investors is launched. "The investor will be able to follow developments at the project through the DLD's website. This will prevent rumours in the market with regard to progress of different property developments."

The Property Court is the body specialised in the determination of the way of returning money to the investors, bin Mijrin said.

"The real estate market is in a good state. The correction, which took place in the market, created opportunities for many people. The DLD registered a few days ago a Dh19 million sale transaction, which had been registered in March for Dh15 million. This means the seller gained the difference within only three months."

According to bin Mijrin, the movement of property prices is not governed by a unified ruling. There are differences in the market and daily dispositions monitored by the DLD give signs on the return of activity. "Currently, we register 25 transactions a day; we were registering a maximum of five transactions in January. There are currently banks financing real estate activities. Finance will be available on a large scale soon when the banks continue providing property loans in the market.

"The regulations are laid down in the interests of investors and developers and the government attempts to take the interests of dealers into consideration and protect their rights through the regulations. A real estate evaluation centre is set up and regulations for the registration of residents and real estate evaluation companies in the emirate and issuance of certain criteria for the real estate evaluation operations are introduced."

On rents in Dubai and the role set to be played by the DLD represented by Rera, bin Mijrin said: "The DLD introduced a non-obligatory rent index, but it guides both landlords and tenants. The law is the reference of selling and buying contracts in the realty market. There are legal conditions on which the formulation of contracts should be based so the contracts do not violate the clauses of law's articles or regulations of real estate market."
article source: http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...5112009_5e8b03fd6e83438b88a21f5303644764.aspx


----------



## paul66

Imre said:


> I went to the DMCC office today, they are not giving property residence visa any more.
> 
> I heard all property visa will be cancelled soon, its true?


Imre... you mentioned on another thread that you may leave the country next year, which country would you consider moving to?


----------



## Imre

paul66 said:


> Imre... you mentioned on another thread that you may leave the country next year, which country would you consider moving to?


still no idea , I will think about it in the next 8-10 months.


----------



## smussuw

*Dubai mulls cancellation of 27 projects - RERA*

by Jason Benham on Monday, 11 May 2009










PROJECTS VERDICT: RERA will decide on the future of 27 projects planned for Dubai by the end of the month. (Getty Images)

Dubai is considering cancelling 27 projects, the head of its real estate regulator said on Monday, as the emirate's property market slumps in the global downturn.

A decision whether to cancel or not would be made by the end of the month, said Marwan bin Ghalita, the head of the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA).

"The decision has not been done. They are projects all over Dubai - third party projects (sub developers)," he said.
Story continues below ↓
advertisement


Earlier this year, Ghalita said he believed 25 percent of projects will be cancelled in Dubai as a result of the global economic slowdown.

"It's almost the same," he said when asked if that figure had changed. The Dubai Land Department and RERA set up a committee last week to cancel projects in the emirate that are not feasible.

Real estate prices tumbled 41 percent in the first three months of the year, property consultants Colliers said in a recent report.

A collapse in property prices has already led to project cancellations in the region worth billions of dollars.

More than half of the construction projects in the United Arab Emirates, worth $582 billion, have been put on hold, Dubai-based market research firm Proleads said in February. 

Ghalita said on Monday the committee would cancel projects based on RERA's decision whether or not they should continue, a request from developers to cancel, or through complaints to the watchdog from project investors.

In February RERA said Dubai developers are likely to delay the delivery of about 20 percent of residential units in 2009 and 40 percent in 2010. (Reuters)


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## abf

Re this issue about residence visa Dubai Govt should at least honor their visa commitments which were made by National Developers and sub developers in the early years of Freehold launch - investors who bought with that carrot being offered and still retain their properties will have been very badly dealt by the hotch potch misleading visa policy


----------



## Hanna

abf said:


> Re this issue about residence visa Dubai Govt should at least honor their visa commitments which were made by National Developers and sub developers in the early years of Freehold launch - investors who bought with that carrot being offered and still retain their properties will have been very badly dealt by the hotch potch misleading visa policy


Hi

I agree 100% it is a clear case of fraud from the Dubai Government don't blame the developers on the phoney promise of a visa they were all in on the con,they had to be plain and simple no one does anything especially on a grand scale of this without the Sheikh 'SANCTIONING' it.Pity it had to take a crash to find them out.
With there struggling sales figuers they are all in a panic as how to get the punters back.I am afraid they will have to rethink their strategy and come up with a far better deal on the Visa or they will sink in the mire they have created.:cheers:

There are other countries out there giving a far better deal than Dubai PLC


----------



## Dubai_Steve

DUBAI, May 11 (Reuters) - Nakheel, the state-owned developer of the emirate's palm-shaped islands, is receiving funds from the Dubai government, as it looks to complete projects and pay outstanding obligations, it said on Monday.

"We have benefited from an injection of capital from the bond issue," Nakheel said in a statement, referring to a government bond sale earlier this year.

"The value and other details relating to this funding remain confidential," it added.

Dubai property prices have tumbled since late last year, when the global financial crisis and a slump in oil prices ended an economic boom in the Gulf region.

Dubai sold $10 billion of bonds to the United Arab Emirates central bank in February to raise funds to support state-linked companies suffering from the crisis. It plans to issue another $10 billion of bonds later this year.

Several Dubai-based contractors have said they are owed hundreds of millions of dirhams by state-linked developers and some may face bankruptcy as credit dries up.

Nakheel is to hold talks with the owners of $4 billion of its debt as it looks to refinance or restructure borrowing, and has hired U.S.-based market intelligence firm Ipreo to locate the bond holders, London-based magazine MEED said last month.

"The market is assuming it is looking to restructure the bonds, but this is just one option. I don't think you can evaluate all options until you know who the bond holder is," Abdul Kadir Hussain, chief executive of Mashreq Capital, told Reuters last week.

Dubai's Emaar Properties EMAR.DU, the largest-listed UAE developer, has no need for financial support from the government, its chairman Mohamed Alabbar said late last month.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Nakheel, a developer owned by the government of Dubai, confirmed on Monday that it had received emergency funding from the emirate’s department of finance to help pay invoices.


Nakheel, part of Dubai World, an indebted government-owned umbrella group, has asked some suppliers to accept 50-75 per cent of payments due, and asked them to write off or reschedule the remaining balances, according to people dealing with the company.

”There is evidence that agreements are being reached in Dubai on delayed payments with both a slight increase in the payments and more importantly there are agreements as to what cash is coming forward,” said one contractor, who asked not to be named. ”It certainly is not getting worse.”

But some suppliers said that they had yet to be paid.

A Nakheel unit has, for example, cancelled a contract to build the piles and platforms for the Water Homes project on Palm Jebel Ali, the city’s second reclaimed offshore development, according to documents.

Dubai World, Nakheel’s parent, is seeking to raise funds as it prepares to deal with re-financing of a $3.5bn Islamic sukuk facility in December.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b5a43314-3e04-11de-9a6c-00144feabdc0.html


----------



## Mistermark

Hanna said:


> Hi
> 
> I agree 100% it is a clear case of fraud from the Dubai Government don't blame the developers on the phoney promise of a visa they were all in on the con,they had to be plain and simple no one does anything especially on a grand scale of this without the Sheikh 'SANCTIONING' it.Pity it had to take a crash to find them out.
> With there struggling sales figuers they are all in a panic as how to get the punters back.I am afraid they will have to rethink their strategy and come up with a far better deal on the Visa or they will sink in the mire they have created.:cheers:
> 
> There are other countries out there giving a far better deal than Dubai PLC


I agree. My purchases were in the Marina and JLT - two projects where I believe the master developer, which is linked to the government/royal family had to approve the contracts of the individual sub-developers. So there's no way the visa clauses could have found their way into the contracts without the powers that be agreeing it.

As for other countries, I've been toying with going to Canada. Anyone in good health and of good character can go to live there, which after time can be converted into citizenship, without a job, if they either have certain qualifying skills or are prepared either to set up a business there that will employ one Canadian and have a turnover of (I believe) $300k/yr after a couple of years or is willing to invest a sum of $400k (or maybe less?) with the government for five years.

Such have been the delays in real estate construction in Dubai that some of us have invested that kind of money for that sort of time already. And I know what I consider a safer place to put my money, given a choice between the government of one of the most financially prudent, asset-rich and democratic nations of the world and a dodgy developer in UAE...


----------



## worried1

*Canada vs Dubai*



Mistermark said:


> I agree. My purchases were in the Marina and JLT - two projects where I believe the master developer, which is linked to the government/royal family had to approve the contracts of the individual sub-developers. So there's no way the visa clauses could have found their way into the contracts without the powers that be agreeing it.
> 
> As for other countries, I've been toying with going to Canada. Anyone in good health and of good character can go to live there, which after time can be converted into citizenship, without a job, if they either have certain qualifying skills or are prepared either to set up a business there that will employ one Canadian and have a turnover of (I believe) $300k/yr after a couple of years or is willing to invest a sum of $400k (or maybe less?) with the government for five years.
> 
> Such have been the delays in real estate construction in Dubai that some of us have invested that kind of money for that sort of time already. And I know what I consider a safer place to put my money, given a choice between the government of one of the most financially prudent, asset-rich and democratic nations of the world and a dodgy developer in UAE...


What is the rate of return in Canada for 400K. If I decide to do that is there a waiting time for health care and then what about social security payments later in life. What about the weather?:cheers:


----------



## Cyrus55

worried1 said:


> What is the rate of return in Canada for 400K. If I decide to do that is there a waiting time for health care and then what about social security payments later in life. What about the weather?:cheers:


I would never ever invest in the UAE again! Investing in developed countries is always risky! hno:


----------



## Hanna

Mistermark said:


> I agree. My purchases were in the Marina and JLT - two projects where I believe the master developer, which is linked to the government/royal family had to approve the contracts of the individual sub-developers. So there's no way the visa clauses could have found their way into the contracts without the powers that be agreeing it.
> 
> As for other countries, I've been toying with going to Canada. Anyone in good health and of good character can go to live there, which after time can be converted into citizenship, without a job, if they either have certain qualifying skills or are prepared either to set up a business there that will employ one Canadian and have a turnover of (I believe) $300k/yr after a couple of years or is willing to invest a sum of $400k (or maybe less?) with the government for five years.
> 
> Such have been the delays in real estate construction in Dubai that some of us have invested that kind of money for that sort of time already. And I know what I consider a safer place to put my money, given a choice between the government of one of the most financially prudent, asset-rich and democratic nations of the world and a dodgy developer in UAE...




Hi Mistermark


You are spot on with the Canada angle at least they don't change there
minds on policy every other week, plus the trust factor as well is far superior
I think.Dubai will find it hard to get there act together and by then it might be
to late.Things are not looking to good for them at present with low rents and the price crash.I expect a big exodus in the summer with more and more projects being cancelled the knock on effect is even lower rents and where is the worth in the investments people have made.:cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I would never move to or invest in a country (Canada) where clubbing of seals is considered a sport.


----------



## NeilP

People at Sky news do not think it is all over for Dubai. 

I am currently an out of work accountant in the UK. I have 3 very good friends; 1 is also out of work and one is at risk of redundancy. My wife is being made redundant in July from a Gov quango. Lets all get in the real world not just the tiny microcosm that is Dubai.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/vi...O_15278841_Dubai_Tourism_Coping_With_Downturn


----------



## Mistermark

worried1 said:


> What is the rate of return in Canada for 400K. If I decide to do that is there a waiting time for health care and then what about social security payments later in life. What about the weather?:cheers:


The Canadian government pays no interest on the $400k. However, the payoff is that you get citizenship to the country whose cities top most quality of life surveys, where everything works, with great public services, very democratic, not corrupt, blessed with huge natural resources (including enough tar and shale oil to keep the world going for many hundreds of years). The only drawback? It's bl**dy freezing in winter hno:.


----------



## Mistermark

Dubai_Steve said:


> I would never move to or invest in a country (Canada) where clubbing of seals is considered a sport.


It certainly puts a novel spin on the term 'going clubbing' :lol:.

Sorry, I shouldn't joke. Much like the Japanese and whales, there's no excuse for it IMO.


----------



## Richard Head

Hanna said:


> Hi Mistermark
> 
> 
> You are spot on with the Canada angle at least they don't change there
> minds on policy every other week, plus the trust factor as well is far superior
> I think.Dubai will find it hard to get there act together and by then it might be
> to late.Things are not looking to good for them at present with low rents and the price crash.I expect a big exodus in the summer with more and more projects being cancelled the knock on effect is even lower rents and where is the worth in the investments people have made.:cheers:


Dude, people like you and Mistermark make me smile. You put your money into an extremely high risk investment like Dubai property, which is high risk precisely BECAUSE it is new and unregulated, unchartered territory, then you bitch like girls when it doesn't work out and wish you had kept your money under the mattress, or sent it to fucking Canada, which amounts to the same thing.

I've lost a million quid on paper in 9 months, but I never held it in my hands so I never really lost anything, I was lucky enough to be in early enough that i'm still in profit. I work for a living, I get in my car and go to a job every day where it will take me 8 - 10 years to earn a million quid. You hear me bitching? No, because I knew the risks, knew the stakes were high, and don't think it's appropriate to blame Sheikh Mo, Chris O'Donell, or anyone else except myself for not spotting the peak and bailing with my million quid intact. Sucks to be me. Or not. 

Oh, and thanks NeilP for the last post. I could go back to the UK, work for less, pay a shitload of tax and bring my kids up in a climate of drugs, crime, rain, sleet, snow and fucking government-sanctioned paedophiles. I'll pass thanks, i'll ride the storm out here (oh but it's a bit hot isn't it Richard?).

If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. Whinging wankers.


----------



## AltinD

smussuw said:


> ^^ and they have a blanket ban on alcohol now, enjoy ur time there :banana:





smussuw said:


> ^^ I hope it does and I hope the UAE follow :banana:


What has UAE to follow? As per my understanding, the new Bahraini Law just restricts alcohol to the same levels Dubai *currently *have.


----------



## smussuw

^^ If it was approved the parliament will restrict alcohol consumption to hotel accommodation rooms and private homes only and ban bars and pubs.


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> ^^ If it was approved the parliament will restrict alcohol consumption to hotel accommodation rooms and private homes only and ban bars and pubs.


A move in the right direction. kay:

Dubai should do the same.


----------



## Hanna

*Nakheel confirms receiving funds*

Wednesday, May 13, 2009
Nakheel confirms receiving funds 

source Business24/7

Nakheel has started receiving funds from Dubai Government, confirmed its Chief Executive Officer (CEO) Chris O'Donnell in an exclusive interview with Emirates Business. However when asked if the figure stood at Dh2 billion, the chief executive said: "The actual figure is confidential and so are all the other details. But yes, Nakheel is receiving funds."

The developer is also talking to its contractors and re-negotiating payments plans and contracts. "Yes, we are trying to help them and ourselves through our current situation. We are at the stage of commercial settlements and negotiations. Rather than detail on percentages, it is a true statement to say that construction costs are falling and there is definitely a reduction," said O'Donnell. "Part of our obligation to our customers is to ensure that we get them the best buildings. Hence, we are talking to our contractors to get cost-effective solutions." O'Donnell said the developer does not issue credit notes and warned investors against any such fraud. "When the market recovers, the focus will be on people buying serviced land. Hence, the built form in Nakheel's projects is definitely going to be linked to the provisions of infrastructure, which will be on an incremental basis," he added. Speaking about the latest on the status of Nakheel projects, O'Donnel said that work on Palm Jebel Ali has slowed down while the Palm Deira and the Universe projects are on hold.However, construction on Jumeirah Village and Al Furjan is progressing, he said.


----------



## AltinD

smussuw said:


> ^^ If it was approved the parliament will restrict alcohol consumption to hotel accommodation rooms and private homes only and *ban bars and pubs*.


... outside 4 - 5 stars Hotels. :tongue2:


The only difference is stopping selling alcohol in the Airport Duty Free.


----------



## smussuw

AltinD said:


> ... outside 4 - 5 stars Hotels. :tongue2:


No no, this has already been approved. As far as I remember, they want to ban it in all other hotels too and allow personal consumption only :dunno:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai Seeks More Tourists*

A new advertising and marketing campaign has marked the start of an aggressive drive by Dubai to attract more visitors to the emirate.

Tourism is one of Dubai's most important sectors. It contributes directly towards 19% of the city-state's GDP.

Indirectly, after factoring in retail sales and other related businesses, that figure could be as high as 30%.

Dubai has set itself extremely ambitious tourism targets. It wants to attract 10 million visitors by 2010 and 15 million by 2015, more than double the 2007 total.

The global economic total crisis has impacted on Dubai. But this emirate is proving resilient.

According to the Dubai Tourism board visitors numbers were actually up by 5% in the first quarter of 2009 compared to the same period last year.

But industry analysts say that figure could be misleading because it also includes pre-bookings made before the economic crisis deepened.

A new report by tourism industry research firm STR Global claims hotel profits are being hit. 

The RevPAR, the revenue per available room, in Dubai fell to $200 (£132) in March. That is a significant decrease on the $348 (£230) for the same month in 2008. This is because some hotel owners are having to reduce rates to attract guests.

The STR study also found occupancy rates down to 73% in the first quarter of this year compared with 86% for the same period in 2008.

Kate Godfrey from travel publisher the Oxford Business Group, confirmed: "Occupancy rates are falling right across the city.

"If you talk to the luxury hotel at the beach front you will find that they are actually operating at between 50 - 60% which is surprisingly close to the break even point."

It could get worse for the industry. Tourist numbers are down and competition for their business is increasing.

Official figures report a rise in accommodation. The number of operating hotels and hotel apartments rose to 519 in the first quarter of 2009, up from 475 during the corresponding period in 2008.

And the total number of hotel rooms was 40,864 in the first quarter of 2009, up by 17% from the same period in 2008.

Khalid A bin Sulayem, Director of the Dubai Tourism Board, said: "The tourism industry in Dubai is healthy and strong. 

"The results confirm excellent growth in almost every segment. The stunning performance also reaffirms the strong cooperation between various organisations in both public and private sectors."

The UK remained the top source market for Dubai tourism industry in the first quarter 2009, followed by Iran, India, US, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Russia, Pakistan, France and Kuwait - same as the first quarter of 2008.


----------



## dubaimat

remains to be seen if this will help



> Law No (9) of 2009 Amending Certain Provisions of
> Law No (13) of 2008 Regulating the Interim Real Estate Register in the Emirate of Dubai
> We, Mohamed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the Ruler of Dubai,
> Having perused Law No (8) of 2007 concerning Escrow Accounts of Real Estate
> Developments in the Emirate of Dubai;
> Law No (16) of 2007 establishing the Real Estate Regulatory Agency; and
> Law No (13) of 2008 regulating the Interim Real Estate Register in the Emirate of Dubai
> (hereinafter the “Original Law”)
> Do hereby issue the following Law:
> Article (1)
> Articles (2) & (11) of the Original Law shall and are hereby replaced with the following texts:
> Article (2)
> Unless the context otherwise requires, each of the following words and expressions shall have the
> meaning set out opposite it:
> “Emirate” : the Emirate of Dubai
> “Department” : the Land Department
> “Agency” : the Real Estate Regulatory Agency
> “Real Estate
> Register”
> : the Real Estate Register maintained by the Department
> “Interim Real
> Estate Register:
> : the set of document made or maintained in writing or electronically in the
> electronic register maintained by the Department in which the contracts of
> sale of properties and other off-plan legal transactions are recorded prior to
> moving the same to the Real Estate Register
> “Property” : the land and the fixed establishment built thereon or any of them
> “Real Estate
> Unit”
> : any designated section of the property including any designated section offplan.
> “Off-plan Sales” : the sale of designated real estate units whether off-plan or those the
> construction thereof has not completed
> “Master
> Developer”
> : whoever is licensed to carry on the business of real estate development in the
> Emirate and sale of real estate units to third parties
> “Sub-Developer” : whoever develops a part of a development belonging to a Master Developer
> under an agreement between them
> “Broker” : whoever carries on the business of real estate brokerage in accordance with
> Regulation No (85) of 2006 concerning the Register of Real Estate Brokers
> in the Emirate of Dubai
> “Concerned
> Authorities”
> : the authorities having competence to license or register real estate projects in
> the Emirate.
> Article (11)
> 1. In the event the Purchaser shall be in default of any of the terms and
> conditions of the contract for the sale of a Real Estate Unit entered into with
> the Developer, the Developer must notify the Department of such default.
> Thereupon, the Department shall give the Purchaser, by hand, registered
> post or e-mail, a 30-day notice to fulfill his contractual obligations.
> 2. If at the end of the notice period stipulated in the preceding paragraph the
> Purchaser has not fulfilled his contractual obligations, the following
> provisions shall apply:
> a. in case the Developer has completed at least 80% of the project,
> the Developer may keep the full amounts paid and request the
> Purchaser to settle the remaining amount of the contract price. If this
> was not possible, the Developer may request that the property be
> auctioned in order to collect the remaining amounts due to it.
> b. in case the Developer has completed at least 60% of the project,
> the Developer may revoke the contract and deduct up to 40% of the
> purchase price of the Real Estate Unit stipulated in the contract.
> c. in case of projects where construction commended but did not
> reach 60%, the Developer may revoke the contract and deduct up to
> 25% of the purchase price of the Real Estate Unit stipulated in the
> contract;
> d. in case of projects whereat construction has not yet commenced
> for reasons beyond the Developer’s control without any
> negligence or omission on its part, the Developer may revoke the
> contract and deduct up to 30% of the total amounts paid by the
> Purchaser.
> 3. For the purposes of paragraphs (c) and (d) of this clause 2, the term
> “Construction” shall refer to cases where the site of the project is handed
> over to the Contractor and the construction works have commenced in
> accordance with the designs approved by the Concerned Authorities.
> 4. For the purposes of paragraph (b), (c) and (d) of the foregoing clause, the
> Developer shall return the amounts due to the Purchaser within a period not
> exceeding one year from the date of revocation or within a period not
> exceeding sixty days from the date of resale of the Real Estate Unit,
> whichever comes first.
> 5. Notwithstanding the provisions of clauses 1 & 2 of this Article, the Agency
> may, following a grounded report, decide to cancel a real estate project, in
> which case the Developer must return to the Purchasers all the amounts paid
> by them in accordance with the provisions of Law No (8) of 2007
> concerning Escrow Accounts of Real Estate Developments in the Emirate of
> Dubai.
> 6. The provisions contained in this Article shall not be applicable to contracts
> of sale of lands where sales were not made off-plan as they shall remain
> governed by the provisions contained in the contract entered into between
> the two parties thereto.
> 7. The provisions of this Article shall apply to all contracts entered into prior to
> the entry into force of this Law.
> Article 3
> This Law shall be published in the Official Gazette and shall take effect from the date of its
> publication.
> Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum
> Ruler of Dubai
> Issued in Dubai on 12 April 2009
> Corresponding to 16 Rabi II 1430H


----------



## noir-dresses

*marketing*

cnn has been flooded with emirate airlines commercials lately with sceenic shots of dubai


----------



## Dubai_Steve

yes and I am quite surprised that there are now more US tourists in Dubai that there are Saudi's or Germans


----------



## AltinD

Yeah, US Navy ships have restarted dropping off Army & Navy personnel for a few days off in Dubai. The guys are sooooooo instantly recognizable when strolling around.


----------



## Dubai_Steve




----------



## noir-dresses

nothing gets buy you !!!!!!





AltinD said:


> Yeah, US Navy ships have restarted dropping off Army & Navy personnel for a few days off in Dubai. The guys are sooooooo instantly recognizable when strolling around.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

A flood of tenants into the Dubai rental market has seen prices stabilise in the Marina and even increase in the Springs, Landmark Advisory’s updated index has said.

After precipitous rental declines in the final quarter of 2008 and the first quarter of 2009 - driven by the collapse of Dubai’s property market - the new guidelines show that a two bedroom villa in the Springs, a popular residential area in Dubai, rose by AED5,000 to AED95,000 a year.

http://www.propertyweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=297&storycode=3140369&c=1


Meanwhile in another story:

Rent for a three-bed villa in the Springs residential community fell up to 28 percent to between 130,000-180,000 dirhams from 140,000-250,000 dirhams in March.

However, the index shows that rents remained flat or even rose in some areas. Dubai Marina saw rents for two-bed apartments at the upper end of the price range rise up to 27 percent.

http://business.maktoob.com/20090000002982/Dubai_rents_continue_slump/Article.htm


----------



## speculator

^^^^^^
I can vouch that there is some credibility behind this report. I have entered into an MOU recently on a property and now the agent says that he can flip it for a profit on the MOU. I didn't buy to flip however its tempting and 2 other agents I have spoken to also said the same. 

Certain areas are still very sought after and prices in those areas have been increasing whilst we have been doom mongering.


----------



## Cayman

speculator said:


> ^^^^^^
> 
> Certain areas are still very sought after and prices in those areas have been increasing whilst we have been doom mongering.


Could you please let us know which areas?

I have a general perception, but a second opinion is always valuable.

Thanks,


----------



## noir-dresses

*question*

what would a two bedroom, 1389 sq/ft apartment rent for in JLT, just interested ??????????


----------



## rexdmx

^^ Aed 120k-140k


----------



## Richard Head

rexdmx said:


> ^^ Aed 120k-140k


Not a hope in hell. You can get a bigger 2 bed on Palm Jumeirah at the high end of that range, short walk to the beach and bars.


----------



## Imre

2 beds at the JLT around 90-120K now

110-120K is the big 2 beds 1600 and 2000 sqft at the Al Seef 2 and 3

my friend just got a 2 bed in Dubai Marina for 95K/12 cheques (Marina View Towers)


----------



## Get Smart

TakeMeHigher said:


> The 100 million of them voting in India right now might disagree.
> 
> How many citizens have the right to a meaningful vote in Dubai?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLGG-u6ntqs

How about the 750 million people without a toilet takes a dump in the open in India everyday several times a day and fouling the environment uke: That 100 million vote democracy in India is a sham, people are poor, the govt corrupt and living standard is very low, electricity and water shortages is rampant. Dont try to give a picture of all is well in India because of democracy, cause it is not. And if thing were so good in India, how come so many Indians live in UAE and elsewhere, how come these indians not go back to their superior democratic homeland. And more importantly how come so less UAE citizens not in India, they have all the money to go and live in India and in democracy comfortably, but they dont. Yet the Indian's have moved to UAE in huge numbers. something about your democratic propaganda smells of BS



Cyrus55 said:


> You have no clue what democracy means ! For you surely means nothing but for those millions of Indian means a lot! Get smart mate!


Why do i have no clue about democracy, i am from UK. :crazy2:mg:


----------



## Get Smart

PlaneMad said:


> That might be jumping to conclusions. Indians have slowly started to realize what the ground realities in the so called dreamland is. Poor poeple with freedom are still happy people, it doesnt take a porsche and a luxury condo to make them smile. Dubai is no longer what it used to be, with all the good came a lot more bad hno:


Good, they can go back to their native democracy and be happy. Take a look at INDIA it is full of shit litterally. Picture 1,2,3 is a hospital, not a bas ass bedsit. Please dont compare the standard of living in UAE with India, India is 100 years behind


----------



## rakeshmmm

*India rising & self sufficient*



Get Smart said:


> Good, they can go back to their native democracy and be happy. Take a look at INDIA it is full of shit litterally. Picture 1,2,3 is a hospital, not a bas ass bedsit. Please dont compare the standard of living in UAE with India, India is 100 years behind


^^ Unfortunately, UAE is not a world player and has a long way to go to influence geo-politics. For example, Kuwait could not provide any credible defense for its own citizens in the gulf war. It had and still has to rely on foreign forces for security. 

India is leaps ahead in terms of nuclear, space, military, IT, pharmaceutical medicine, education, manufacturing to name a few. The above pics in Get Smart post is misleading; ask the growing medical tourism form around the world. The best doctors are Indians (period) and there are numerous documentaries on the medical tourism. The photos are of a small community who believe in half burning the dead and leaving the remains in the water. It is a banned practice in India. 

Having a mobile population is a large strategic advantage. Immigration is a important facet of the global economy (even though it annoys racist). For the top post,the best minds are hired to advantage of the firm. Unfortunately, India has just began to tap in the global Indian diaspora (very late) and emigration back to India is not uncommon anymore.

Its economy has a major impact on the global scene and is predicted to be the third largest economy within two decades. Like the UAE, India had a miraculous change during the last ten years and its future is quite promising.
Its far from perfect or fairytale like and has a long way to go to catch up to developed countries but you need to have a open mind and appreciate the positives also. In my book, its good to be critical, objective and contribute in the forum but being a racist isnt.


----------



## jagmp

rakeshmmm said:


> ^^ Unfortunately, UAE is not a world player and has a long way to go to influence geo-politics. For example, Kuwait could not provide any credible defense for its own citizens in the gulf war. It had and still has to rely on foreign forces for security.
> 
> India is leaps ahead in terms of nuclear, space, military, IT, pharmaceutical medicine, education, manufacturing to name a few. The above pics in Get Smart post is misleading; ask the growing medical tourism form around the world. The best doctors are Indians (period) and there are numerous documentaries on the medical tourism. The photos are of a small community who believe in half burning the dead and leaving the remains in the water. It is a banned practice in India.
> 
> Having a mobile population is a large strategic advantage. Immigration is a important facet of the global economy (even though it annoys racist). For the top post,the best minds are hired to advantage of the firm. Unfortunately, India has just began to tap in the global Indian diaspora (very late) and emigration back to India is not uncommon anymore.
> 
> Its economy has a major impact on the global scene and is predicted to be the third largest economy within two decades. Like the UAE, India had a miraculous change during the last ten years and its future is quite promising.
> Its far from perfect or fairytale like and has a long way to go to catch up to developed countries but you need to have a open mind and appreciate the positives also. In my book, its good to be critical, objective and contribute in the forum but being a racist isnt.


well done you have spoken my mind.to understand India one has to live in India and be part of it. India is 100 years behind how?politically economically culturally medically or in engineering and science? it was very prosperous and rich country.that was the precise reason why English French and Portugese faught many battles on indian soil for the power and wealth.unfortunately it was looted for centuries by foreign invaders.

britishers are excellent statesmen and diplomates.thats why they ruled the world and made Britain rich.not the right place to go in to the history.but now we can see what is happening to it.i am british indian so goes without saying i love both the countries.

as about living standard in India- country is robbed for centuries of its wealth and natural resources.that has created a extream poverty on one side.when a man is deprived of its basic necessities he will not think of democracy. first he has to survive.he will go wherever he finds an opportunity.be it UAE or USA.that does not mean he doesn't care about democracy.he is compelled to make a choice.Indians are best of the brains.indians don't need to go to Oxford or Cambridge to prove their worth.being a large country people don't get the opportunities.otherwise you will know all the children in the slums have capabilities to become engineer and scientists.without any academic qualification they are master mechenical and computer engineers and mathematicians.

indian industrialists are buying british companies. in 2007 alone 200 small and big companies were taken over by indians.UAE and Britain are welfare states.which has done most damage to it.that has created lack of aspiration and ambitions in young generation.our GCSE and A level leavers can't perform simple mathematical task which 10 year old indian can perform.my son goes to selective grammer school QE boys Barnet.this is continuously top state school in the whole country at GCSE and A level by FT and Times league table.and among first five in all the schools in the country.70% students are indians.15% students are japnese chinese and srilankans. rest 15% are english.all the staff members are english.they just adore indians. 

democracy is invaluable by all means.i am sure even for Emiraties.they are lucky to have good rulers and has never faced dictatorship.now certain aspect of life we take as democracy or freedom is not part of their culture.so they don't miss it.as about indians living in UAE that is because for decades they have exchanged trades relations.two countries are geographycally close. aren't their 100000 british expats living there.does that mean they don't value democracy. if you live in a foreign country by choice then you must respect its culture and feelings of the people.and there is no two ways about it.

Mr Get Smart it is not right to judge and make silly comments about any nation without any detailed knowledge or information. hno:


----------



## Imre

Press Release

*UAE’s property sector gaining momentum amidst steady market correction*

*The Specialists observes country’s transformation into an end-user market, resilience of industrial segment*

May 17, 2009

Ongoing corrective measures have transformed the UAE’s property trade into an end-user market, observes The Specialists, a complete real estate solutions provider with over 20 years of experience in the Gulf region.

The Specialists notes that more real estate developers and owners are shifting their sales strategies away from speculators and towards end-users, focusing on meeting the unique needs of prospective owners. A noteworthy rise in foreign investments in recent months is further sustaining the momentum being enjoyed by the industry, with improved lending conditions across domestic banks adding to the positive trend. Another welcome development is the resilience of the industrial property segment, with Dubai alone still significantly benefitting from its reported 50 per cent increase in industrial rents in 2008.

“Just recently the UAE Minister of Economy stated that the country has managed to overcome the crucial stages of the financial crisis, and that significant economic gains could be expected in the second half of this year. This has greatly stimulated market-correcting activities which are raising the appeal of properties and moving emphasis towards end-users” said Dr. Sobhi Suleiman Agha, General Manager, The Specialists.

Meanwhile, banks across the Emirates are gradually increasing lending and mortgage activities, although they are exercising more caution in the form of rigorous background checks. Also, the UAE Central Bank and the Ministry of Finance have been implementing several measures to improve liquidity in the financial sector and restore market confidence. A senior official of the Central Bank has affirmed that they will concentrate on liquidity and asset quality towards 2010. 

The banking authority will specifically monitor the effects of the property trade on the financial sector. 

“Today’s evolving markets have actually opened several opportunities to foresighted property firms. The key is for developers and owners to keep close track of trends and corrections and create tailored packages for both their existing and prospective clients. The UAE remains one of the world’s top property destinations, so banks will definitely continue to extend mortgage facilities to investors, albeit with a little more caution. A little creativity and patience can still lead to highly-profitable returns for real estate businesses,” concluded Agha.

The Specialists itself constantly monitors local and regional trends to make sure that it develops and delivers high-quality and timely services. The Specialists delivers a comprehensive range of services to cover all types of property transactions within both the commercial and residential markets, for lease and for sale. The company currently conducts its operations in the UAE, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria.


----------



## jagmp

^^

i can experience the momentum in the market. yesterday my apt in marina was reserved and today i got an offer to rent my 2br JLT apt.i am receiving the keys in next couple of days.i am not yet sure weather the price is right so haven't yet accepted the offer.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

jagmp said:


> ^^
> 
> i can experience the momentum in the market. yesterday my apt in marina was reserved and today i got an offer to rent my 2br JLT apt.i am receiving the keys in next couple of days.i am not yet sure weather the price is right so haven't yet accepted the offer.


The rents in the marina seems to have stabilised now - I would even say that some of the really low offers have gone. As many distressed sellers/renters have gone - I think the bulk of landlords dont want to lower prices more - and maybe the remaining bulk of landlords are not in cashflow problems. Also Service charges are high and after reduction of the charges and allowance for property management we have reached a more stable bottom. I will soon have an apartment for rent which I have no morgage in - I have decided not to rent it out if I can not get what I want. I think many will do the same if they are not in cashflow problems. Anyway, it is good for Dubai that rents have come somewhat down - last year rents were crazy.

Lets see what summer will bring but I dont see rents plunging anymore.


----------



## jagmp

^^
you are spot on.i have no morgatge on any of my properties as well. i am not desparate to rent neither do i have cashflow problem.but after my son's GCSE i want an expensive family holiday to rocky mountains and Alaska cruise. i will be able to do with this extra income.:banana:


----------



## AITU

^^Me too. Unless I can get at least 150K for my 2 bed in Executive Towers, I'll just furnish and have it as second home with maybe the odd short term let to cover Service Charges etc.

I think people forget that a heck of a lot of properties were bought with cash between 2004-2007 with a view to medium-long term investments. Not everybody has exited the game.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

AITU said:


> ^^Me too. Unless I can get at least 150K for my 2 bed in Executive Towers, I'll just furnish and have it as second home with maybe the odd short term let to cover Service Charges etc.
> 
> I think people forget that a heck of a lot of properties were bought with cash between 2004-2007 with a view to medium-long term investments. Not everybody has exited the game.


My problem is that I might have to stick with a tennant for 3-4 years on a low return of my money. I have no problem doing this if my return is minimum 5-6% after all expensives. 6% sounds maybe greedy - but remember I tied up this money for 2-3 years.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

AITU said:


> ^^Me too. Unless I can get at least 150K for my 2 bed in Executive Towers, I'll just furnish and have it as second home with maybe the odd short term let to cover Service Charges etc.
> 
> I think people forget that a heck of a lot of properties were bought with cash between 2004-2007 with a view to medium-long term investments. Not everybody has exited the game.


Yes, short term renting to cover basic costs will be the option of many - and still the apartment is out of the market for the people working in Dubai.


----------



## iced

*GOOD LUCK!*

Nice to hear that some of you are going to be keeping your apts for urself. Ur expectations of rents r too high.

Currents r falling n will continue to do so. 150k for business bay. forget it.

Prices r goin to drift lower. Great post by HT talkin about supply n demand. Prices n rents aint goin up soon.


----------



## rexdmx

AITU said:


> ^^Me too. Unless I can get at least 150K for my 2 bed in Executive Towers, I'll just furnish and have it as second home with maybe the odd short term let to cover Service Charges etc.
> 
> I think people forget that a heck of a lot of properties were bought with cash between 2004-2007 with a view to medium-long term investments. Not everybody has exited the game.


AITU the prices would go below Aed 150k using the burj area as a reference.
it does not mean you cannot rent it below and earn less than 5%

the opportunity cost of renting ur apt is using it as a second home and that would depend on the frequency which does not look profitable to me if you already have a base here or come here once in a blue moon.

hold on to the asset, lease it out, get some income until the market stabilizes


----------



## Imre

iced said:


> Nice to hear that some of you are going to be keeping your apts for urself. Ur expectations of rents r too high.
> 
> Currents r falling n will continue to do so. 150k for business bay. forget it.
> 
> Prices r goin to drift lower. Great post by HT talkin about supply n demand. Prices n rents aint goin up soon.


150K irrealistic there for 2 bed now, 100-110K you can get 2 b/r ,1500 sqft, full marina view in Dubai Marina.


----------



## Mufaddal Patwa

worried investor said:


> Hello
> Does anyone have a unit in Spanish building . I had bought a studio in May 2008 at a ridiculously high price and I know three other people who had also bought. I want to create a group which can then approach DSC for cancellation of this project or reviewing of the contract price in view of the significant reduction in the contract prices. I am pretty sure they have not even awarded this contract.


Hey, I have bought a 1 br apt in SPN. Let me know what kind of approach u have in mind for this particular project. 

Thanks


----------



## dubaiprojects

*hi*



Imre said:


> 150K irrealistic there for 2 bed now, 100-110K you can get 2 b/r ,1500 sqft, full marina view in Dubai Marina.


Imre, do you know recent trans happened for 1 or 2 bed and what was the rental value?


----------



## Imre

I know just a few transactions from my friends :

Marina View Towers 2 bed for 95K , 12 cheques
Marina Promenade , 1 bed for 80K
Marina Diamond 2, 1 bed for 70K
Lake Terrace , studio, 45K
Discovery Gardens , studio 40K

thats all , you can check the Gulfnews ,dubizzle.com and expatriates.com and you will see rent prices still going down.

I live in the Goldcrest ,JLT , my floor seems empty , most of people left and still no new tenants.


----------



## docc

Marina Promenade down to 80k from 150k?! Dang! Makes more sense to pay 80k for Marina Promenade rather than 70k for Marina Diamond (1 bed)!


----------



## jagmp

i am renting MD 5 from June 1st for 60000k.it was rented for 85000k for past 14 months.i heeded the forumers advice.it was foolish to let go off the income even though i am not in cashflow problems. i still find 65000k offer very low for 2 br 970sft apt in Icon 1.i think i will wait for couple of weeks.


----------



## IISinbadII

Morten_Denmark said:


> My problem is that I might have to stick with a tennant for 3-4 years on a low return of my money.


How do you know that rents would go up in next 3-4 years?
Unless demand catches up with supply, I see no hope. If they go down next year, your tenant may actually ask for a discount (assuming he is lucky enough to survive all the lay-offs).


----------



## tehsin123

dubaiprojects said:


> DUBAI - Foreigners in the UAE may soon be able to own 100 per cent of businesses located outside the nation’s economic free zones, under more liberal rules that officials in Dubai are promoting in the hope of boosting foreign investment to help counter the financial slowdown, a top Dubai government official said on Sunday.


All these news don't make me any optimistic, as they can pull anything back when its going in their favour.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

glover said:


> imre,
> 
> not all apartments are the same in the marina, and today's renters/buyers are discerning, willing to pay more to get better quality developments. it seems that the properties you are making a judgment based on are mostly low in quality and/or with a so so location.
> 
> Emaar properties in the marina are in high demand for both rental and buying. i easily rented my furnished 2 br in al-sahab for 15k/month just a couple of weeks ago. there were 3 renters who wanted it at that price.
> 
> from what i gather also, JBR's 2 beds are still going around 120k.


I rented out a 2bed JBR apartment 1200 sqrft for 150 k in 2 cheques very recently via Exclusive - but this one was with complete seaview - if it was a more standard unit I would have got 130 k. Also Exclusive add 5% so 157.5 k it was. At the top this apartment rented out at 210 k. Therefore I would predict that rentals in JBR is down 30% - perhaps 40% for the more standard units. 2 years ago I was happy to get 135 k for this apartment - we have to remember this.


----------



## glover

^^^^^^ 2008 rents, and prices for that matter, were by all means an anomaly and were clearly unsustainable! no one should use them as a reference imo. you make a good point by comparing rents today to 2007 and before. another way to get a fairer view of the rental market is to take the average of the last three years and compare it to that.


----------



## montranieri

Morten_Denmark said:


> Who would rent out their 2bed in the Marina for 60 k ? Service charges are 30 k and the apartment will for sure give you 2-3 k in expenses for small repairs. Much better not to rent out - 6-8 weeks holiday rent and you might be able to retrieve the service charges.


You are absolutey right, but this can be the case if to many people will leave Dubai and we'll face heavy oversupply. If you do not have mortgages and you do not actually need to rent, ok, but otherwise will be another panic time...


----------



## Spurs

*Exchange rate advice*

I need to send some cash back the UK. Should I book today at AED 5.6 to the dirham or is anyone predicting this rate to become more favorable?


----------



## montranieri

jagmp said:


> if rent in marina reaches 45000k for 1br studios will go for 40000k or less.then what about studios in DG and IC?30000k and 25000k? are you serious?then how will they pay Nakheel's huge service charges.?hno: i hope we don't reach that stage.otherwise Dubai is doomed for all the investors in completed properties as well.considering 5% to 6% return studios in DG and IC will sell for180000k to 150000k:bash:
> 
> i have read what exodus has done to once booming cities like Antwerp Amsterdam and Florence.Antwerp's population was reduce from 120000 to 40000 in 50 years in 19th century.there were no takers for any houses.this is a scary situation.
> 
> the daily telegraph last weekend suggested about London as well.it said Britian is living on borrowed time and money.it does not have any natural resources industries or agriculutural land.it relied too much on financial sector too long..now the sector is weakened for very long time.export is also not a major player.infact most of the things are imported.
> 
> if anyone has seen last week BBC 2 property watch series from Monday to Thursday? experts opinion is the green shoots we are seeing in the property market is just a usual blip of spring and summer.they are expecting prices to fall further 15% to 20% in next couple of years.for next five years there will be no price rise.there will not be another boom before 10 to 15 years.this is not my opinion. you can see the programme on i player.
> 
> i personally experienced while reletting one of my properties.i had to reduce the rent.also had to do considerable refurbishment to attract the prospective tenants.there are too many properties in the market.infact this morning news revealed there are 100000 new built flats housing associations refused to take inspit of waiting tenants. the reason- thay didn't match their standerds. in London gross yield is 4% to 5%.Dubai is still better as far as yield is concerned.atleast for the time being.who knows what can happen in 6 to 12 months.



I mean if we have too many apartments and too less residents what should we expect? The good buildings in the right location will be the first choice and then the others. And if Dubai Marina become more and more affordable like now, first you need to fill it up and then hope to fill the rest of Dubai....


----------



## FWIW

Spurs said:


> I need to send some cash back the UK. Should I book today at AED 5.6 to the dirham or is anyone predicting this rate to become more favorable?


My guess is that we should shortly see GBPUSD at 1.55 which would make it 5.693 in aed.


----------



## Spurs

FWIW said:


> My guess is that we should shortly see GBPUSD at 1.55 which would make it 5.693 in aed.


Thank you


----------



## rexdmx

^^ but that's a guess and should be by no means a final answer...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai has started to reduce registration fees to further stimulate economic activity. The move is expected to be rolled out officially next month, as the emirate revamps its 2015 strategic plan to address the new economic realities.

In addition, senior officials from Dubai Department of Economic Development (DED), said the government will also be looking at reducing visa fees and allowing 100 per cent ownership of business outside the free zones.

Khalid Al Kassim, deputy director-general of Economic and Sector Development at DED, said Dubai is currently "reviewing the economic pillars of 2015" to shield the emirate from the financial crisis and to set Dubai's medium to long term policy for sustainable, non-inflationary growth.

"We are looking at every single fee and we are ready to remove them if there's no impact or value added in the business," said Al Kassim. "Tomorrow, the Executive Council will be reviewing the report on reduction of fees from DED and Department of Finance. But in DED we already have two fees that have been revisited – one is removed and the other is made optional. So you will be hearing something very soon."

http://www.business24-7.ae/articles...5182009_02ce9727aef74bbcb4e918c2320245cf.aspx


----------



## NeilP

*Holiday Lets*

Just searched Myvillarenters for apartments in Dubai Marina which are available for week starting 1st July. Out of 52, 36 are available. That means 30% occupancy. 1st June showed 32 are available or 38% occupancy. Average price for a 2 bed is 4500aed a week. Still not bad if you can get bookings. From memory there were only about 25 listed a year ago.

Looks more and more likely that some short term renting agencies will soon be gone, including the one I use in Dubai.


----------



## Cayman

629 sqft discovery garden studios are going for AED 30K p/a.

This is the asking price.

May be even negotiable!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ that is cheap for Dubai, about UK £440 per month, equivalent rent to a small shabby 2 up / 2 down terrace in a bad area of Hull in the north of UK.


----------



## smussuw

The director general of Dubai has been replaced by another guy even though he was in office of like 5 months only. I wonder if it has anything with his statements recently.


----------



## Cayman

^^
Yup, the rental yields are going to the toilet.

I recently rented out a 3200 sqft town house (3bed+2 living rooms+maid's+terrace) on the golf course in RAK for AED 95K p/a.

Four months ago they were going for 150K!


----------



## 974agk

*Rental Comparison*

^^

Here in Scotland a 850Sq Feet appartment is currently available for £750 per month /approx 50kAed per year ,similar to Dubai at the moment but taxed to the hilt! hno:


----------



## Bonion

*Director General of Dubai??*



smussuw said:


> The director general of Dubai has been replaced by another guy even though he was in office of like 5 months only. I wonder if it has anything with his statements recently.


Sorry smussuw, never heard of the guy! What was he responsible for? I didn't know we had a director general!


----------



## Canal Sand Investor

*No Spanish Progress*



Mufaddal Patwa said:


> Hey, I have bought a 1 br apt in SPN. Let me know what kind of approach u have in mind for this particular project.
> 
> Thanks


I also have an Apartment in Spanish as well and have seen nothing but empty promises until now. I agree we should do something about it.

Thanks


----------



## mrobbie

Anyone got any information on actual property valuations? Is all the talk of price drops based purely on asking and selling prices, or have the valuations of properties dropped significantly also? 

I know this seems like a dumb question, but in my experience there has always been a difference between sale price and actual valuation. Essentially, are people trying to sell units at the moment below the actual valuation price to speed up a sale?


----------



## mrobbie

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dubai has started to reduce registration fees to further stimulate economic activity. The move is expected to be rolled out officially next month, as the emirate revamps its 2015 strategic plan to address the new economic realities.


Is this just business registration fees, or will it spread to lands dept registration fees??


----------



## smussuw

Bonion said:


> Sorry smussuw, never heard of the guy! What was he responsible for? I didn't know we had a director general!


lol, sorry

I meant the Director general of the finance department of the government of Dubai. He is the one who said that they are encouraging the federal government to modify its visas.


----------



## Cayman

Thanks smussuw.

I saw in the papers that the statement was made in Jordan (at WEF summit) and it did strike as a little odd.


----------



## paul66

*UAE population to grow 6% in 2009*

*UAE population to grow 6% in 2009*

_*The rise in the UAE population counters the view that expatriates are leaving the country.*_

More than 300,000 people will be added to the UAE population this year to record the highest growth of 6.3 per cent in five years and Dubai would likely emerge as the fastest growing emirate, official figures show.

The rise rebuffs reports that the global financial turbulence has triggered a mass exodus of expatriates out of the country, mainly Dubai.

From 4.75 million in mid 2008, the UAE's population is projected to increase to 5.066 million in mid 2009, showed the figures by the Ministry of Economy.

Foreigners accounted for the bulk of the increase as they are forecast to grow by around 270,000 to 4.143 million from 3.873 million in the same period.

"The UAE still has one of the highest population growth rates in the world and last year's rate was more than double the average global growth," an Abu Dhabi-based economist said.

"The estimates of this year's population show that all those reports about a mass migration are not true."

This year's projected growth of 6.3 per cent is the highest in five years, with the rate standing at an average 6.1 per cent during that period. The figures showed Dubai is expected to record the highest growth this year of 7.8 per cent to 1.722 million from 1.596 million.

The high rate will allow the emirate to widen the previously closing population gap with Abu Dhabi, whose population will grow by around 4.2 per cent to 1.628 million this year from 1.559 million in mid 2008.

Sharjah is projected to have the second-highest growth rate of 7.5 per cent and maintain its position as the third-largest populated emirate in the UAE.

Growth was estimated 6.2 per cent in Fujairah, around 5.6 per cent in Umm Al Quwain, 5.4 per cent in Ajman and 4.3 per cent in Ras Al Khaimah. The figures showed UAE nationals are projected to grow by around 3.4 per cent or 31,000 this year, while expatriates would surge by 6.9 per cent.

A breakdown showed the country had around 3.286 million males and 1.479 million females in mid 2008 and their number is forecast to increase to 3.504 million and 1.562 million respectively by mid 2009.

The report also showed the 25-29 year age group was the largest in the UAE in mid 2008, standing at 777,186. It was followed by the 30-34 age group, which was estimated at 754,289 and 35-39 group of 588,505.

Despite the rapid growth in its population, the UAE has maintained its position as one of the wealthiest nations in terms of GDP capita income, which was estimated at 195,000 at the end of 2008, second only to Qatar in the Arab World.

Figures showed the per capita income has recorded its highest growth rates over the past six years mainly because of a surge in the oil income and expansion in non-hydrocarbon sectors.

article source: http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...5192009_897f0175354c446b8811d5d005c3e844.aspx


----------



## Spurs

How is this possible:

This year's projected growth of 6.3 per cent is the highest in five years, with the rate standing at an average 6.1 per cent during that period. The figures showed Dubai is expected to record the highest growth this year of 7.8 per cent to 1.722 million from 1.596 million.


----------



## smussuw

I think the man who projected that was drunk ...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

:dunno:

A report released last month by Swiss investment bank UBS predicted a year-on-year expat population decline of 8% in Dubai in 2009, with a further decline of 2% in 2010.

http://www.constructionweekonline.c...or_measures_to_halt_dubai_population_decline/

So we now have predictions ranging from -8% to +6.3% in 2009, quite a big variation (14.3%)!


----------



## paul66

*The New Six Month Visa Law Examined*

*The New Six Month Visa Law Examined by Better Homes*

One of the biggest pieces of recent news was the announcement and confirmation of the new Dubai residency visa law. This law allows owners of property worth over AED 1 million to obtain a six month, renewable residency visa. While the new law was generally welcomed, many have wanted further details. Ameya Salatry, Better Homes’ Head of Legal, answers some of the most common questions:


1. Are the six month visa and its various conditions enough to entice people to buy property and help revive the market? Reasons why/why not?

Yes- The visa will ease travel for investors from India, Pakistan, Iran and Russia, who had faced tighter visit visa rules in the past. Now, they will be able to visit frequently to manage their properties.

No- Those who want to buy property here or have already purchased property in the UAE often want to stay here longer than six months at a time. Leaving the country just to come back is understandably seen as an inconvenience for investors. Some owners plan to own property for 20 to 30 years, so six months’ permission to stay is problematic.

We expected the visa to encourage foreign investment into the nation’s real estate sector but the visa should have had a longer time frame and without a restriction of being tied to a property value. This is a step in the right direction but is probably not far enough to allay investors’ concerns.


2. Why do you think the Government limited it to six months and imposed several conditions? Could they possibly be worried about a flood of applications?

Yes we feel partially that is the reason. Although this is fundamentally a move to clarify speculation over this regulation and to bolster the real estate sector, the Government wants to be very careful in streamlining visa applications at the backdrop of immigration rules in the UAE.


3. To what extent does the AED 1m minimum property value price out those people who would benefit most from having the residency visa in the first place (i.e. the less well-off)?

The AED 1 million minimum property value as a precondition may indeed be problematic because (a) the property values have fallen; and (b) foreign investors wishing to invest and obtain visas may not look upon this condition as a suitable one, in the midst of an ailing economy. Regulating residency permits on the basis of property value is also bound to create illegal “workaround” solutions where buyers technically pay over 1m but then work out a deal with the seller to get the money back somehow. In our opinion, this minimum level should be revised or removed from the visa regulation.


4. To what extent does the condition of having to earn a minimum salary of Dh10,000 while holding the residency visa eliminate the very reason for having it?

Foreign investors need to prove that they earn a minimum salary of DH 10,000 in order to avail the 6 month visa benefit. Foreign investors can only obtain visa if all of the requirements including the one above are met.

The visa does not give the owner of the property the right to work in the country. In that, the requirement of DH 10,000 as salary condition would be an obstacle in the event an investor looses a job and cannot prove his wages to avail to this visa. It defeats the purpose in that sense. However, we feel the legislative intent is twofold; (a) to attract foreign investors in the foreign countries to hold properties in the UAE and visit the country to manage the same and (b) for foreign investors who already reside in the country and who can fulfill all of the requirements for the visa application to have benefits of the visa to own and manage properties in the UAE..

The purpose is not to guarantee an investor a 6 month visa in the event of falling circumstances like loss of employment, unfortunately.


5. Does the visa have the potential to develop the UAE’s property market as a retirement or second home destination?

We do not feel so, because people in the retirement and second home category normally look for a longer option or prefer to avoid fulfillment of visa conditions which in the present case would have to be met on a recurring basis of every 6 months. The visa works well for seasonal visitors, but not for anyone who wishes to make the UAE their home.


6. If you own two properties that add up to more than Dh1m, do you qualify for a residency visa?

We do not have the text of the law to answer this question, but we feel it would be applicable only for a single unit or apartment.


7. If the property is initially below Dh1, but rises in value, do you qualify for a visa?

You would qualify for a visa once it touches Dh 1 Million or more in value, not before that.


All from the Better Homes Newsletter.
Regards,
Paul


----------



## FWIW

FWIW said:


> My guess is that we should shortly see GBPUSD at 1.55 which would make it 5.693 in aed.





Spurs said:


> Thank you


Your welcome!



rexdmx said:


> ^^ but that's a guess and should be by no means a final answer...


Pretty good guess as it is 1.55 now! I must be lucky!:lol:


----------



## smussuw

^^ for number 6 they already said that if an investor has more than one property worth one million or above he will be eligible for the visa.


----------



## High Times

FWIW said:


> Your welcome!
> 
> Pretty good guess as it is 1.55 now! I must be lucky!:lol:


Yes a truely amazing guess as when the pound was $1.40 you said this.



FWIW said:


> There she blows...the pound is toast...again!


 and this


FWIW said:


> It's like a slow motion train wreck.





FWIW said:


> 1985 here we come!


I see that my education and tutorials have turned your opinion around regarding Sterling v Dollar.

I am always happy to be of help to those less informed than myself. :cheers:


----------



## FWIW

High Times said:


> Yes a truely amazing guess as when the pound was $1.40 you said this.
> 
> and this
> 
> 
> 
> I see that my education and tutorials have turned your opinion around regarding Sterling v Dollar.
> 
> I am always happy to be of help to those less informed than myself. :cheers:





FWIW said:


> OK - don't get offended about this HT, but I personally do not think we will reach £1==$1.7 by Dec 2009. It just looks like too big a mountain to climb in 8 months. My short term outlook will be to see if we break through 1.50 level and we may retest the 1.35 level.


As the facts change, I change.

We broke through 1.50, so this bear turned bull!

:cheers:


----------



## googly

High Times said:


> I see that my education and tutorials have turned your opinion around regarding Sterling v Dollar.


Prof HT, now that the sterling is climbing and oil is up over $60/barrel (from $35/barrel in Jan), do you think prices in Dubai will start to rise shortly?

Whats your take on the business 24-7 report that UAE population is to grow by over 6% in 2009 and the Better Homes report that Sharjah population is migrating to Dubai as rents fall?


----------



## High Times

Oil prices will continue to rise. Dollar will fall further against Sterling. No it will not help property prices rise in Dubai.

The report is great. File it next to the Bible in modern fiction.

The only thing that will help prices to rise in Dubai is around 2 million immigrants who want places to live, who dont require permanant residence, and who earn enough money to pay 150k per annum in rent.

Dont hold your breath.


----------



## kano

^^^Is it all the way up now or is sterling likely to fall again?


----------



## agod

It was common knowledge that George Soros was shorting Sterling, and telling all and sundry what a rubbish currency it was. people follow him, he got what he wanted, probably earnt him Zillions, and now he is out of it, it will find its own level.

Basically the USA is in bigger trouble than anywhere else, and Sterling was driven down.
IMO.

ALan


----------



## High Times

*FX is never a one way street*. 

It will be a bumpy ride but I believe we are heading towards £1 = $1.7 - $1.8.

There are many commentators who think that Dollar is heading for a revaluation within 6-12 months. I am not sat in that camp yet, but if economic data from the US does not start to improve soon then they will have no other options but to devalue their currency.

FDR did this back in 1934 by around 70% against Gold. This is widely recognised as the catalyst to recovery after the great depression.

This would also help reduce the US current account deficit as well as increase exports and maybe revive the US auto industry.

Basically there are more reasons to do it, than reasons not to do it at the moment. Politically Obama could get away with it if he does it early on as it can be blamed on the arsehole that created this mess in the first place. He then has 3 years to make things better (they will naturally improve through devaluation anyway). Obama will look like the hero and get his 2nd term and we all lived happily ever after.

However this will be a disaster for currency’s pegged to the Dollar. If US devalue then ‘ipso facto’ so will the Dirham. 

This is why the Dirham needs to go it alone or work within the GCC basket as proposed, (and convergence agreed) *NOW*.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Interesting. If the dollar devalues what does that mean in real terms? What would be the expected exchange rate from UK pound to US dollar in that case?


----------



## FWIW

A good article here:

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/05/19/56020/chop-chop-chop-the-dollar/


----------



## Freestyler

agod said:


> It was common knowledge that George Soros was shorting Sterling, and telling all and sundry what a rubbish currency it was. people follow him, he got what he wanted, probably earnt him Zillions, and now he is out of it, it will find its own level.
> 
> Basically the USA is in bigger trouble than anywhere else, and Sterling was driven down.
> IMO.
> 
> ALan


He shorting when sterling was 2.0, but he stopped shorting it when it reached 1.45. News came after when he stopped shorting it, and he can't give public news like that when he was shorting selling or he can get into legal trouble for market manipulation.


----------



## Wannaberich

Even with a weak dollar, investing in Dubai property for many overseas investors will still be an unattractive option.Along with the fact there are bargains to be had in many other countries,in particular if you live in the UK,you have to consider that low rents,multiple cheques,and high maintenance charges in Dubai make buying to rent on a par with returns in other countries.This time last year Dubai was way out in front.
Dubai will have to rely on investors from places like India,Pakistan and Iran.


----------



## Get Smart

jagmp said:


> well done you have spoken my mind.to understand India one has to live in India and be part of it. India is 100 years behind how?politically economically culturally medically or in engineering and science? it was very prosperous and rich country.that was the precise reason why English French and Portugese faught many battles on indian soil for the power and wealth.unfortunately it was looted for centuries by foreign invaders.
> 
> britishers are excellent statesmen and diplomates.thats why they ruled the world and made Britain rich.not the right place to go in to the history.but now we can see what is happening to it.i am british indian so goes without saying i love both the countries.
> 
> as about living standard in India- country is robbed for centuries of its wealth and natural resources.that has created a extream poverty on one side.when a man is deprived of its basic necessities he will not think of democracy. first he has to survive.he will go wherever he finds an opportunity.be it UAE or USA.that does not mean he doesn't care about democracy.he is compelled to make a choice.Indians are best of the brains.indians don't need to go to Oxford or Cambridge to prove their worth.being a large country people don't get the opportunities.otherwise you will know all the children in the slums have capabilities to become engineer and scientists.without any academic qualification they are master mechenical and computer engineers and mathematicians.
> 
> indian industrialists are buying british companies. in 2007 alone 200 small and big companies were taken over by indians.UAE and Britain are welfare states.which has done most damage to it.that has created lack of aspiration and ambitions in young generation.our GCSE and A level leavers can't perform simple mathematical task which 10 year old indian can perform.my son goes to selective grammer school QE boys Barnet.this is continuously top state school in the whole country at GCSE and A level by FT and Times league table.and among first five in all the schools in the country.70% students are indians.15% students are japnese chinese and srilankans. rest 15% are english.all the staff members are english.they just adore indians.
> 
> democracy is invaluable by all means.i am sure even for Emiraties.they are lucky to have good rulers and has never faced dictatorship.now certain aspect of life we take as democracy or freedom is not part of their culture.so they don't miss it.as about indians living in UAE that is because for decades they have exchanged trades relations.two countries are geographycally close. aren't their 100000 british expats living there.does that mean they don't value democracy. if you live in a foreign country by choice then you must respect its culture and feelings of the people.and there is no two ways about it.
> 
> Mr Get Smart it is not right to judge and make silly comments about any nation without any detailed knowledge or information. hno:


So when India was Colonised and looted by the British, it was done under the flag of Democracy isnt it? When we British (and i am ashamed of it) built vast railway networks and Bridges using slave labour all over India, taking Indian people against thier will to places like Kenya and Fiji to labour the sugar cane fields and what not, how come these atrocties dont matter. 

Your comment about Indians being the best of Brains is BS, dont agree with it at all. If Indians are so brilliant, then how come India could not defend itself from the foreign invaders, why did it fall under British occupation and silly billy Indian Royal Families (Raj) were established as puppets so successfully. This best of Brains recognition should not go to Indians but Japanese, who are very poor resource wise but rich in Brain dept and were able to build a proper army and technologically advanced planes and aircraft carriers. It needed a nuclear bombs x2 to defeat and get Japan to surrender, and up until the nukes, Japan did a very good job of dealing with British imperialism. After the war Japan developed into a first rate country which India with its 1 billion people can only wish. The awesome Nissan Skyline GT-R, Toyota Land Cruiser, Sony PS3 and many other good thing in life would never happen in India simply because it is not capable enough. When you look at Japanese railway like the bullet trains, thats where brain power, where as in India the same trains from the British ere is used and are in very decrepit condition. I just find India to be a lot of hot air, to much exagerrated promises, but nothing to show. If things were so good, all the Indians in UAE would leave and live in India, but that doesnt happen because India has nothing to offer and the indians know it.


----------



## Hanna

*Dissent upsets ruler's court for Dubai investors*

Tuesday, May 19, 2009
Dissent upsets ruler's court for Dubai investors

source FinancialTimes

"We know the company needs the money - but we need it, too."

That was the refrain of one investor, summing up the attitude of many, as shareholders staged an unprecedented walkout at the annual general meeting of Dubai's largest real estate company this month.

Emaar's AGM has always provided fireworks, even during the good times when property values were rocketing. But with the credit crunch having demolished the real estate market, shareholder after shareholder grabbed the microphone to plead for a dividend payout.

The background to this is simple: Dubai has gone from gilt-laden boom town to debt-ridden globalisation victim in the space of only six months. The AGM offered Dubai's citizens a rare outlet for public dissent in a country where political parties are outlawed and rallies require government approval.

The meeting, held in a hall usually reserved for trade exhibitions, was a corporate version of the ruler's court - or diwan - where the emirate's leader traditionally heard petitions by the clans and families allied to him.


But the days when one could raise grievances directly with the ruler are gone, replaced by faltering steps towards democracy in a partially elected parliament in the federal capital of Abu Dhabi.

At the AGM, troubled investors seized an opportunity to voice their dissent at the company's decision to sit on its cash.

Emaar - 30 per cent owned by the government, adding an edge to the investor's criticism - became a proxy for the woes of the battered real estate market in the emirate. Once the darling of international speculators, the construction sites have fallen silent; unemployed Asian workers have been shipped back to the subcontinent; and investor groups are trying to force cash-strapped developers to complete properties or to repay deposits.

Shareholders in the developer - the largest stock on the Dubai Financial Market - have had to watch the share price collapse by 80 per cent since the start of last year.

Even last year, as the boom continued, the developer had only paid out a 20 per cent dividend while its peers were distributing larger payments to happy shareholders. "Last year, you said you promised to pay a dividend this year," argued another angry shareholder.

"You are right. I said that. But again I say things are different now and we have changed policy to safeguard the company and [to] finish projects this year and [in] the coming years," countered chairman, Mohammed Alabbar.

With the quorum of the meeting at slightly more than 50 per cent, the government - with its 30 per cent stake - was going to have the final say about the Emaar dividend. There was 88 per cent support for the company's plan to sit on its cash.

But - this being Dubai - dissent was not directed at the government, which largely retains the favour of its national population.

"If the government doesn't want to pay, then we will accept it, but we want a clear statement rather than [to] have us come here and pretend that we have a say," said Akram Haloum, an important shareholder who led the walkout.

Disgruntled investors tend to focus ire instead on Mr Alabbar, a close confidant of the ruler Sheikh Mohammed.

The charismatic business leader, who has been privately dismissive of his shareholders' protests, believes the company's decision to pay out minimal dividends in the past couple of years has left Emaar stronger than its peers - such as rival developer Nakheel - which have had to tap the government for $5bn in funds to pay contractors.

That is small comfort for his irate investors, however. They seek some recompense for deep losses. Without a quick global recovery and turnround in the stock's battered share price, investor sentiment could darken further.


----------



## Get Smart

rakeshmmm said:


> ^^ Unfortunately, UAE is not a world player and has a long way to go to influence geo-politics. For example, Kuwait could not provide any credible defense for its own citizens in the gulf war. It had and still has to rely on foreign forces for security.
> 
> India is leaps ahead in terms of nuclear, space, military, IT, pharmaceutical medicine, education, manufacturing to name a few. The above pics in Get Smart post is misleading; ask the growing medical tourism form around the world. The best doctors are Indians (period) and there are numerous documentaries on the medical tourism. The photos are of a small community who believe in half burning the dead and leaving the remains in the water. It is a banned practice in India.
> 
> Having a mobile population is a large strategic advantage. Immigration is a important facet of the global economy (even though it annoys racist). For the top post,the best minds are hired to advantage of the firm. Unfortunately, India has just began to tap in the global Indian diaspora (very late) and emigration back to India is not uncommon anymore.
> 
> Its economy has a major impact on the global scene and is predicted to be the third largest economy within two decades. Like the UAE, India had a miraculous change during the last ten years and its future is quite promising.
> Its far from perfect or fairytale like and has a long way to go to catch up to developed countries but you need to have a open mind and appreciate the positives also. In my book, its good to be critical, objective and contribute in the forum but being a racist isnt.


Regarding Kuwait and its invasion, India did not do a good job either, it was a British colony for 200 years, and UK was a puny little democratic country. The Mumbai bombings showed how slow and incompetent the Indian security sevice is. You say Indians are the best doctors, but what good is it if they only serve the rich outside patients and not the local people where it is needed most. Instead the local Indians get into debt if they want any sort of proper medical care, your democracy and booming economy does not walk the walk, just talk big. In these regards UAE is many times better and this fact of life is reflected by the huge number of Indians living in UAE and not vice versa, and i dont blame them, why would any UAE person decide to live in India. As for you calling me racist, well just like your 'India is a Vibrant Democracy' slogan, it is just sensationalist.


----------



## Freestyler

FWIW said:


> As the facts change, I change.
> 
> We broke through 1.50, so this bear turned bull!
> 
> :cheers:


I'm expecting a move down (could go below 1.45) in next 3 months.


----------



## IISinbadII

High Times said:


> Oil prices will continue to rise. Dollar will fall further against Sterling. No it will not help property prices rise in Dubai.
> 
> The report is great. File it next to the Bible in modern fiction.
> 
> The only thing that will help prices to rise in Dubai is around 2 million immigrants who want places to live, who dont require permanant residence, and who earn enough money to pay 150k per annum in rent.
> 
> Dont hold your breath.


:bash:


----------



## googly

Wannaberich said:


> Even with a weak dollar, investing in Dubai property for many overseas investors will still be an unattractive option.Along with the fact there are bargains to be had in many other countries,in particular if you live in the UK,you have to consider that low rents,multiple cheques,and high maintenance charges in Dubai make buying to rent on a par with returns in other countries.This time last year Dubai was way out in front.
> Dubai will have to rely on investors from places like India,Pakistan and Iran.


You are right but the tax regimes in the UK are so high that you would rather invest in a tax free zone. If the dollar weakens, properties in Dubai will become cheaper still and therefore the bargains will be better.


----------



## googly

High Times said:


> The only thing that will help prices to rise in Dubai is around 2 million immigrants who want places to live, who dont require permanant residence, and who earn enough money to pay 150k per annum in rent.


I hope someone is listening as the solution to Dubai's problems lies in the above paragraph. 

Dubai needs to go back to square one. What made so many people move to Dubai in the last many years? Sheikhi Mo needs to focus on those reasons and invite hordes of people to move to Dubai.


----------



## montranieri

googly said:


> I hope someone is listening as the solution to Dubai's problems lies in the above paragraph.
> 
> Dubai needs to go back to square one. What made so many people move to Dubai in the last many years? Sheikhi Mo needs to focus on those reasons and invite hordes of people to move to Dubai.


Totally agree! It is not impossible to rise the population to 6M (not even half of Mumbai population) but government must give evident advantages to move here in terms of security, equal rights, sure tax free environment, reasonable costs of business operations. Dubai is strategically located and a hub between east and west. If all above will be done, jobs will be created at all levels, dubai apartaments will be occupied and the real estate game can start again helping at the same time the UAE business system to grow faster. But if the emiratis are too avid or stupid, it will never happen......


----------



## V Kapoor

Get Smart said:


> So when India was Colonised and looted by the British.......


THis man is really out of his mind and does not really know what he is talking about. I wonder what he is doing here blaah blaahing total irrelevance. I wish such people stop dumping their frustrations here by talking of something that they least know of......

The thread topic is, if I may remind,...*"Property & Investment in Dubai"*


----------



## iced

High Times said:


> *FX is never a one way street*.
> 
> It will be a bumpy ride but I believe we are heading towards £1 = $1.7 - $1.8.
> 
> There are many commentators who think that Dollar is heading for a revaluation within 6-12 months. I am not sat in that camp yet, but if economic data from the US does not start to improve soon then they will have no other options but to devalue their currency.
> 
> FDR did this back in 1934 by around 70% against Gold. This is widely recognised as the catalyst to recovery after the great depression.
> 
> This would also help reduce the US current account deficit as well as increase exports and maybe revive the US auto industry.
> 
> Basically there are more reasons to do it, than reasons not to do it at the moment. Politically Obama could get away with it if he does it early on as it can be blamed on the arsehole that created this mess in the first place. He then has 3 years to make things better (they will naturally improve through devaluation anyway). Obama will look like the hero and get his 2nd term and we all lived happily ever after.
> 
> However this will be a disaster for currency’s pegged to the Dollar. If US devalue then ‘ipso facto’ so will the Dirham.
> 
> This is why the Dirham needs to go it alone or work within the GCC basket as proposed, (and convergence agreed) *NOW*.


HT, certainly agree that sterling was undervalued at $1.4. I think that the long term average is $1.55. Am inclined to agree that sterling should be valued around 1.65-1.8. U make an excellent point about the US trying to devalue their currency by QE so even my forecast maybe wrong. However i think that the UK will also try to devalue their currency by QE so it is possible that $ may rise but again i think the US will print money faster and that sterling will continue to rise. I sent most my AED out earlier in the year at aroung 5 AED so the rate is immaterial to me.

I am really waiting for the single currency as i think that will be huge. It will mean the value of UAE property will rise in sterling terms. That my occur in the next couple of years.

Also agree that dubai prices aint goin up fast for some time.


----------



## rakeshmmm

Get Smart said:


> Regarding Kuwait and its invasion, India did not do a good job either, it was a British colony for 200 years, and UK was a puny little democratic country. The Mumbai bombings showed how slow and incompetent the Indian security sevice is. You say Indians are the best doctors, but what good is it if they only serve the rich outside patients and not the local people where it is needed most. Instead the local Indians get into debt if they want any sort of proper medical care, your democracy and booming economy does not walk the walk, just talk big. In these regards UAE is many times better and this fact of life is reflected by the huge number of Indians living in UAE and not vice versa, and i dont blame them, why would any UAE person decide to live in India. As for you calling me racist, well just like your 'India is a Vibrant Democracy' slogan, it is just sensationalist.



^^ In the past, India didnot exist as India. It was a series of small kingdoms/ states with a number of foreign invaders. Every state has has several different language, culture, traditions, food and way of life. Every civilization had it peak and down; I would love to get in history but i know this not the forum. Today, no foreign power including UK will dare to take on India militarily for any imperialistic or resource reasons 

There are a number of medical institution that serve the poor. Many doctors (including famous ones) give free treatment on Sundays or Saturday. The medical system is less materialistic UAE and it is a thousand time better than UAE. Your pictures regarding Indian health system in the earlier post was misleading to say the least.

You have a short memory of the UK train bombings. Did you forget the UK police shot dead a innocent Brazilian man? I was in London for a seminar that day. There a thousands of terrorist plans made and failed but it takes one to succeed and become famous. 9/11 bombings was not exactly state of art security. On a personal note, I appreciated the way the common people took the trains of London Metro the next day. This was the same case after the Indian metro bombings. 

Your earlier statement "Take a look at INDIA it is full of shit litterally." stinks of racism. After your other reading post, you are also stubborn and have fixed view of point.

Its really even worth replying to your post and I will not henceforth esp in a investment forum. After living, studying and working in the US, Western Europe (including UK and Ireland), UAE and India, I have realized that the average person throughout the world are sincere and good natured but in every society, there are bigots and they preach hatred.


----------



## Wannaberich

googly said:


> You are right but the tax regimes in the UK are so high that you would rather invest in a tax free zone. If the dollar weakens, properties in Dubai will become cheaper still and therefore the bargains will be better.


The point is whether your have rental income from a property in Dubai or the UK you will be taxed the same.
The only time the tax free status is a benefit is if you live in Dubai.
Most buyers of Dubai property don't.


----------



## High Times

Any chance a moderator can get rid of all this shit about India. 

Not only is it nothing to do with what we are discussing here, but it has quite racist undertones which is unnessacary and totaly out of context.


----------



## googly

Wannaberich said:


> The point is whether your have rental income from a property in Dubai or the UK you will be taxed the same.
> The only time the tax free status is a benefit is if you live in Dubai.
> Most buyers of Dubai property don't.


I know ppl living in the UK/US who own property in Dubai and dont get taxed on their rental income simply because they dont show it in their tax returns. :lol:


----------



## FWIW

Freestyler said:


> I'm expecting a move down (could go below 1.45) in next 3 months.


We are very close to 200 day ema at around 1.57. If we cross that I feel we will go higher to test 1.6 level. This is also a fib level for me.

I will keep your 1.45 in mind though in case the market doesn't play ball with me...


----------



## mackie1964

I wish you were all right as we do most of our work abroad but I am afraid it is going down again soon. Reserve the 1.40 and below for me then 

It will not reach and stay at the 1.69/1.7 for a long time yet, it will remain between 1.4 and 1.5 for a while but what do I know :dunno:


----------



## Mistermark

Freestyler said:


> I'm expecting a move down (could go below 1.45) in next 3 months.


On what grounds? Seems to me the Dollar was kept high because lemming traders bought USD bonds when it looked like the global banking system was in freefall, on the basis that it's the one country that's probably too big to be broken, and Sterling was driven down by shorting by Soros and others. It deserves to be low, but maybe not as low as it was earlier this year.

Now it looks as if the banking system will survive but the price the US has paid in terms of debt and QE is worse than the UK's, hence it has fallen against currencies such as the Euro and less against Sterling. But surely the medium-term trend for the Dollar has to be downward against a basket of currencies, including Sterling?


----------



## Freestyler

Mistermark said:


> On what grounds? Seems to me the Dollar was kept high because lemming traders bought USD bonds when it looked like the global banking system was in freefall, on the basis that it's the one country that's probably too big to be broken, and Sterling was driven down by shorting by Soros and others. It deserves to be low, but maybe not as low as it was earlier this year.
> 
> Now it looks as if the banking system will survive but the price the US has paid in terms of debt and QE is worse than the UK's, hence it has fallen against currencies such as the Euro and less against Sterling. But surely the medium-term trend for the Dollar has to be downward against a basket of currencies, including Sterling?


On the basis that stocks will retest lows again in next 3 months. I'm expecting double bottom (i.e. W recovery by the end of this year).


----------



## AppleMac

Mistermark said:


> But surely the medium-term trend for the Dollar has to be downward against a basket of currencies, including Sterling?


Is the UK economy stronger than the US?

As for the Euro - well unless Germany decides to back the sovereign debt of all the Euro members that looks to be on increasingly shaky ground.


----------



## glover

i am really puzzled, why do you guys bet on currencies which all look shaky long term when you have a clear winner that you can't go wrong with, the Chinese yuan!

even if the sterling makes it to 1.7, it will be short lived! The UK economy was too dependent on financial services and the strength of that sector will never be the same again, nothing even close to what it was. 

i think we are at an inflection point when it comes to the sterling, as jim rogers said! 

long term, the UK will have no other choice but join the euro imo!


----------



## smussuw

The UAE decided to withdraw from the GCC monetary union hno:


----------



## IISinbadII

smussuw said:


> The UAE decided to withdraw from the GCC monetary union hno:


Pros and cons?


----------



## smussuw

^^ its all about pride because we aren't hosting the GCC central bank :nuts:


----------



## noir-dresses

I guess there still a little bitter with not getting the head quarters in Abu Dhabi !!!!!!!

But then they dont really need them, just like Switzerland does'nt need the EU


----------



## Dubaidog

smussuw said:


> ^^ its all about pride because we aren't hosting the GCC central bank :nuts:


Spoilt child syndrome?...does not seem like a very mature response to something that did not go their way...


----------



## smussuw

Dubaidog said:


> Spoilt child syndrome?...does not seem like a very mature response to something that did not go their way...


Well maybe it is but it is also the answer for Saudi Arabia dominance and dictatorship. They already have five GCC organizations and the UAE has none so why did they need more. Beside the UAE was the first to ask for the central bank and is the strongest and most divers economy in GCC.

Saudi Arabia should start treating other GCC countries with mutual respect and equal grounds.


----------



## Dubaidog

smussuw said:


> Well maybe it is but it is also the answer for Saudi Arabia dominance and dictatorship. They already have 5 GCC organizations and the UAE has none !


If you consider Saudi's position in the GCC - it produces more oil (so greater GDP) than the rest of the GCC put together, probably has a greater population than the rest of the GCC combined and also probably has a larger land area. When you have one State that is so obviously dominant in these areas I do wonder if the GCC is a viable concept - in the end who benefits?


----------



## noir-dresses

It's the see you, would'nt want to be you answer to Saudi Arabia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They would just bog them down any way, I would'nt be surprised if Qatar ditches them aswell.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Qatar is in no position to disturb Saudi Arabia now. They already had a long history of conflicts and they reconciled their relationship not long time ago so this would be the last thing Qatar wants, or maybe not :laugh: :dunno:



Dubaidog said:


> If you consider Saudi's position in the GCC - it produces more oil (so greater GDP) than the rest of the GCC put together, probably has a greater population than the rest of the GCC combined and also probably has a larger land area. When you have one State that is so obviously dominant in these areas I do wonder if the GCC is a viable concept - in the end who benefits?


They still have a very backward economy and only contribute 48% of GCC GDP even though their population is 70% of GCC population. We can give reasons why one country deserve it more than the other all day. Fact is that UAE stepped out because it doesn't want to be a follower of Saudi Arabia. 

Good for the UAE, GCC will end up turning to a Saudi entity.


----------



## bizzybonita

smussuw said:


> The UAE decided to withdraw from the GCC monetary union hno:


Riyadh hno: so without a second guess this become a terrific place with binary infrastrcture of banks :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai moves to calm investors after finance chief switch*

DUBAI, May 20 (Reuters) - A top Dubai official moved to assure investors that the emirate, hard hit by the financial crisis, was committed to meeting its financial obligations, one day after Dubai's ruler dismissed his finance chief.
The surprise dismissal of Nasser al-Shaikh as the emirate's finance head triggered questions among some investors as Dubai and its constellation of government-controlled companies effort to restructure and meet looming debt needs.

"The government is firmly committed to sustainable fiscal policies and to adopt actions that are appropriate for the current circumstances taking into account the scope of the global crisis, meeting Dubai's financial obligations and future development requirements," said Mohammed al-Shaibani, aide to Dubai's ruler, in a statement issued late on Tuesday.

Al-Shaibani is director of the office of Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the ruler of Dubai and vice president and prime minister of the United Arab Emirates, the Gulf confederation to which Dubai belongs.

Al-Shaibani expressed his support for the new finance director, Abdul-Rahman al-Saleh, as "the right man to lead the next stage of managing the economic situation".

Saleh previously held a position at Dubai's customs authority, a key body in the trade and tourism hub, known as home to the world's tallest building and man-made islands built in the shape of palm trees.

The timing of the surprise leadership switch underscores Dubai's delicate financial situation after the UAE central bank bailed out the emirate with a $10 billion bond programme. The emirate has said it has outstanding debt of around $80 billion.

Unlike many of its neighbours, Dubai has few energy resources or foreign investments to draw upon for revenue during the financial crisis.

The crisis has hit Dubai's highly exposed economy disproportionately hard due to its reliance on cyclical industries like trade, finance and tourism, and after its real estate bubble burst late last year.

The emirate is using the bailout proceeds to provide financing to its myriad of cash-strapped firms, some of whom are in arrears in paying contractors. The payouts have not been made fully public, leading to questions about which companies will receive the cash and who they will repay.

Dubai officials have said they aim to raise another $10 billion in a second bond issue through the market, making leadership changes and payout plans of keen interest to investors.

During his brief tenure, Al-Shaikh earned a measure of respect from investors as head of the department for his efforts to navigate the difficulties created in the former boom-town following a liquidity crunch and collapse in real estate markets.

In his new position, al-Shaikh will serve as an assistant to the director of the ruler's court for foreign affairs. He holds leadership or positions at a number of important Dubai companies. (Reporting by Thomas Atkins; Editing by Jan Dahinten)


----------



## dlnash

Sorry to go a little off topic:
But does anybody know what Emaar's current policy is regarding Credit Notes?

Thanks,


----------



## AltinD

dlnash said:


> ... does anybody know what Emaar's current policy is regarding Credit Notes?


Apart issuing them?


----------



## Imre

dlnash said:


> Sorry to go a little off topic:
> But does anybody know what Emaar's current policy is regarding Credit Notes?
> 
> Thanks,


they are not accept credit notes for the final payment.

so you can not use credit notes for the Marina Quays,Park Island, Marina Mall Hotel,Burj Views, Lofts, Burj Dubai, Dubai Mall Hotel etc...


----------



## noir-dresses

Just finished watching BBC's Fast Track on Dubai. 

It was a good report, not bad at all.

Will try to post it here once BBC's web site puts it up


----------



## Imre

I heard today that the residence visa rules will be changing again because of Ajman,UAQ and RAK want more power

anyway I got today from my developer (JLT ):

"As per DMCC, they have put on hold the residence visa till 15th June '09. They will send us the update and I will inform you.

Best Regards"


----------



## docc

Imre said:


> I heard today that the residence visa rules will be changing again because of Ajman,UAQ and RAK want more power
> 
> anyway I got today from my developer (JLT ):
> 
> "As per DMCC, they have put on hold the residence visa till 15th June '09. They will send us the update and I will inform you.
> 
> Best Regards"


More power? As in? They want to independently regulate visa processes, without federal interference?


----------



## noir-dresses

Now BBC will have Dubai in there " Middle East Buisness Report "

Im turning into a BBC junky 

:nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:http://www.bbcworldnews.com/Pages/ProgrammeMultiFeature.aspx?id=260


----------



## smussuw

docc said:


> More power? As in? They want to independently regulate visa processes, without federal interference?


:laugh:

If Dubai can't have that, how can those pathetic Emirates have it?


----------



## Imre

docc said:


> More power? As in? They want to independently regulate visa processes, without federal interference?


they have already spent billions for infrastucture and projects and they will have no end users at all?

This 3 emirates also the part of the UAE so they need something.


----------



## docc

Smussuw, exactly what i was thinking. Also, i wouldn't call other Emirates pathetic; it's just not nice .

I doubt if these emirates will get what they want Imre.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Ajman is doomed if not providing permanent VISAs for expats.


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> Ajman is doomed if not providing permanent VISAs for expats.


right , and at the end of the day who should help them?? 

Abu Dhabi of course because of same country


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Nakheel, one of the largest property developers in Dubai, is offering its customers discounts of between 10 per cent and 30 per cent on some of its projects to encourage them to pay on time. 

To qualify, buyers will have to settle outstanding balances and continue to pay their instalments on time. The scheme is available to those who have bought in Jumeirah Island Mansions, Jumeirah Heights Clusters, Badrah phases one and two, Marina Residences and Veneto.

“Nakheel is aware that the current economic conditions pose a challenge to some customers and is, as such, introducing some initiatives to help customers meet their commitments and obligations towards Nakheel,” the company said.

“Customers are presented with the chance to save a certain percentage on the total value of their property if they pay on time. This is in line with our responsible actions to help maintain a healthy market movement and deliver properties to customers in a timely manner.”

Nakheel is owned by Dubai World and recently announced it was drawing funds from the Dh36.7 billion (US$10bn) Dubai government bond. It is the latest Dubai developer to come up with incentives to limit defaults.

Union Properties said in February it had offered buyers a 10 per cent discount on the balance of their outstanding payments across all of its projects. 

Deyaar Properties announced a string of measures in March, including giving customers discounts of up to 30 per cent on its projects to account for lower construction costs, and has offered buyers the chance to transfer their investments between projects.

Emaar Properties, the largest developer in the UAE, has relaxed payment plans and is allowing those who have invested in projects not yet under way to transfer their purchases to those that are being constructed.

Developers have put new project plans on hold and have pledged to complete their current projects.

Nakheel has about Dh116bn worth of properties under construction in Dubai, including 2,200 villas at Jumeirah Village and 900 at Jumeirah Park, which are due for completion by the end of the year. Another 2,000 homes at the Al Furjan development are expected to be delivered at the end of next year.

Last month, the company posted a 90 per cent profit decline for last year, compared with 2007, as it made “impairment charges” of Dh4.8bn, including Dh678 million in contract termination costs.


----------



## smussuw

docc said:


> ^^ Exactly what i was thinking. Also, i wouldn't call other Emirates pathetic; it's just not nice .


Well, they are because they always wait for charity from Abu Dhabi and the federal government. They didn't pay a penny on hospitals or schools since our independence.


----------



## Porcello

I've been thinking about this property visa for a while lately.... sometimes things look better with a cold mind.... and I've finally reached the conclusion that......... this visa is an outstanding piece of crap! They must have spent an unbelievable amount of time and brain power to manage to make it stink so much! A true masterpiece!


----------



## dubaiprojects

Some of my friends have bought properties in Ajman (Gold crest etc) and they are now seriously thinking of canceling their investment. I wonder what would happen to all the projects worth billions ? I mean who would want to live in these emirates now that they can easily afford to live in dubai, even if the crises is over, it would take many years to recover to the point that dubai becomes so expensive back again that people would think of living in these states while working in dubai. I heard today from some one that he is renting out his 2 bed for 70k.... 

Cheers


----------



## Imre

Porcello said:


> I've been thinking about this property visa for a while lately.... sometimes things look better with a cold mind.... and I've finally reached the conclusion that......... this visa is an outstanding piece of crap! They must have spent an unbelievable amount of time and brain power to manage to make it stink so much! A true masterpiece!


you are not aloneP


this visa rules means they dont want retired people (without job and income) here, this is a big mistake , 1 retired from Europe is much better than 100 workers ( from India, Pakistan , Philipin etc.. ) simply because they spend more money .


----------



## Hanna

Imre said:


> you are not aloneP
> 
> 
> this visa rules means they dont want retired people (without job and income) here, this is a big mistake , 1 retired from Europe is much better than 100 workers ( from India, Pakistan , Philipin etc.. ) simply because they spend more money .


Hi Imre

100% right they promised Visa's and they reneged on the bargain what a shambles they have created for themselves.I have said from day one it was a con the credit crunch exposed them and their deciet,now they are floundering in the mire.At the end of the day they are shocked that their plan went Tits up and they don't know what do next,people cannot trust what they say because they change the rules at a whim.The credit crunch was a major disaster for the big people that planned the future of Dubai.The big knobs have had to re-think what the major players want and satisfy their demands, the big picture of Dubai being in the hub of west meeting east is in danger.The sheihk Mo must be aware that his master plan is in peril and will try an evert at all cost's to damage his dreams.:cheers:


----------



## Freestyler

smussuw said:


> :laugh:
> 
> If Dubai can't have that, how can those pathetic Emirates have it?


They are probably thinking if Abu Dhabi can stand up to Saudia, so they can stand up to Abu Dhabi :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

High Times said:


> The only thing that will help prices to rise in Dubai is around 2 million immigrants who want places to live, who dont require permanant residence, and who earn enough money to pay 150k per annum in rent.
> 
> Dont hold your breath.


OR

2 million immigrants who want places to live and can earn enough money to pay 150k per annum in rent. (Need to attract more business and create more skilled jobs, some things are being done for this)

+

Permanent UAE VISAs so that people feel that they belong and help to improve the city/country. (Something may happen yet, we can all hope for the sake of Dubai and UAE)

+

Bankruptcy laws to prevent people going to prison or running from the country if they loose their job (This is in progress)


----------



## Freestyler

Dubai_Steve said:


> OR
> 
> 2 million immigrants who want places to live and can earn enough money to pay 150k per annum in rent. (Need to attract more business and create more skilled jobs, some things are being done for this)
> 
> +
> 
> Permanent UAE VISAs so that people feel that they belong and help to improve the city. (Something may happen yet, we can all hope for the sake of Dubai and UAE)
> 
> +
> 
> Bankruptcy laws to prevent people going to prison or running from the country if they loose their job (This is in progress)


I've something in mind. Why not give permanent visa for property over AED 3million purchase price, that will bring some doe. :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Freestyler said:


> I've something in mind. Why not give permanent visa for property over AED 3million purchase price, that will bring some doe. :lol:


Not a bad idea, maybe:

6 month renewable visas for a property investment of (not value of) < AED 1.5m

Permanent visas for a property investment of AED 1.5m+

all with no added restrictions on proving salary etc. so retired can move in also.


----------



## docc

I think it should be a tiered system. Greater the value of your property, longer the duration of the visa. That way its fair and not many can complain.


----------



## noir-dresses

why not a system where every emirate has its own visa rules, and not soooo centralized. The one with the best visa strategy gets the most investments.


----------



## Spurs

Dubai_Steve said:


> Not a bad idea, maybe:
> 
> 6 month renewable visas for a property investment of (not value of) < AED 1.5m
> 
> Permanent visas for a property investment of AED 1.5m+
> 
> all with no added restrictions on proving salary etc. so retired can move in also.





docc said:


> I think it should be a tiered system. Greater the value of your property, longer the duration of the visa. That way its fair and not many can complain.


So the rich get it easy and the poor have to pay out and do Visa runs every 6 months?


----------



## docc

^^ Unfortunately, the rich have this craving to be treated different. If its not investment friendly, the rich will invest elsewhere and Dubai would suffer even more.


----------



## Spurs

If you want a sleepy town full of retired people then you are on to a winning idea.


----------



## iced

*Mistake*

Pullin out of single currency is a mistake. I think that the should de peg as an alternative but it wont. So expect further weakening of the AED and greater inflation with reduced growth. not a pretty picture.

At least revaluing the AED will help a bit but the scenario does not look good for Dubai property prices.


----------



## smussuw

noir-dresses said:


> why not a system where every emirate has its own visa rules, and not soooo centralized. The one with the best visa strategy gets the most investments.


Eh?

In what county u will have different visa requirment in each state? You are not making sense.


----------



## MANUTD

noir-dresses said:


> just when you think it's bad, it could get worse !!!!!!!!!
> 
> we living in interesting times
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Iran/10315955.html


That'll help the oil price up !!


----------



## noir-dresses

and how are you doing ??????

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...5242009_f37ec4e89037407f940f64a010b028a8.aspx


----------



## TerryPop

*New poster*



googly said:


> Dubai is a much better place; its like a western country (in terms of infrasturcture and multicutural atmosphere) but with NO TAXES. I wouldnt think twice about moving to Dubai but moving to Malaysia is out of the question.
> 
> All Dubai has to do is to get its house in order and you will see people migrate to Dubai once again.



I have spent ages reading these forums but this is a first post 

I really agree with this googly.... there is a massive population shift into Dubai that everyone is missing.

If you haven't seen the likes of discovery gardens at 7pm drive down and take a look.

A friend was panicking as he was taking handover of 2 dozen units down there- they flew out the door in one week in May.

Average rent was 60k 4 cheques.

When I asked him who he was renting to, he said all young couples moving in from places like Barsha, sharjah etc.

Could this be the start of massive inward pull? Dubai's not dead, its the dynamic thats changing- and probably for the better.

:banana:


----------



## IISinbadII

^^ Welcome to the forum and I hope you are right.


----------



## smussuw

A friend rented a studio in Discovery Gardens for 33k

Did anyone see lower prices?


----------



## Raza01

Hii guys how much is the service charges in Discovery Garden for Two Bed apartment and also for Villa 2 Bed in Spring.


----------



## 234sale

People are looking for the cheapest on the market, sending wives and kids back to home countries from June onwards. 

Why rent a Villa in the Meadows, cheaper to fly out of Dubai 3/4 times a year and leave them at Home.

I also heard that Salwin from Dubai Properties will start leasing from 35,000 Annually. DG will have more competition as Government owned companies set up to lease start trying to lease stock.

Queswtion
How much do you think I can get a 1bed plus study plus garden for in the Old Town, 100K?


----------



## docc

^^ Yes, but flying out 3-4 times and spending a few weeks with them is NEVER the same as spending every waking day with them  Can't put a price on that now can you? Besides, when one can afford it, why not?


----------



## 234sale

Raza01 said:


> Hii guys how much is the service charges in Discovery Garden for Two Bed apartment and also for Villa 2 Bed in Spring.


All Springs were around 7200 AED a year, well when I had one. 

I think this was changed to 1.51 dhs per sq ft of your plot size.


For DG I think it was 30AED then reduced to 19AED

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090406/NATIONAL/77554197


----------



## 234sale

docc said:


> ^^ Yes, but flying out 3-4 times and spending a few weeks with them is NEVER the same as spending every waking day with them  Can't put a price on that now can you? Besides, when one can afford it, why not?


My wife would never let me be with out her, so I have no choice. 
She would also never leave the Downtown district either, even Business Bay will be a hard push. Bloody Carluccios...


----------



## Raza01

For apartments it should be less than villas but here it is opposite why is it so?


----------



## 234sale

It seems Apartment rents have gone from 150AED sqft (+/-10AED) to approx 100AED sqft (+/-10AED) across the board.

My 1000 sqft Old town was at peak 150K hopefully 100K

DG for a 450 sqft unit was 70K now 45K?


----------



## 234sale

Raza01 said:


> For apartments it should be less than villas but here it is opposite why is it so?


It depends on the number of facilities and services.

Remember that you are paying for all the buildings facilites and upkeep. 

Strata Law will help in future. Transpancy on charges will come, just RERA / Goverment hasn't set a date yet.


----------



## tehsin123

*24May09 RTRS-Thousands leave UAE without paying credit cards-banker*
DUBAI, Some UAE banks are seeing up to 2,500 customers leave the country every month without paying off their credit card bills, a number that could rise in June, a senior RAK Bank <RAKB.AD> official said on Sunday. 
RAK Bank business advisor David Martin said most of those leaving without settling their credit card bills were linked to the construction sector in Dubai, the hardest hit of the seven emirates that make up the United Arab Emirates federation. 
"On our credit card portfolio, in common with other banks, we are seeing increasing numbers of 'skips' -- that's people leaving the country without paying their bills," Martin said. 
Martin said the bank's research indicated banks in the UAE have 1,500-2,500 customers leave every month over the past six months without paying what they owe on credit cards. 
RAK Bank, which has around 20 percent market share in the country's credit card sector with around 300,000 customers, has seen around half that rate in the same period, Martin said. 
"The instances of skips in our bank, according to our own intelligence, is 50 percent below our competitors," he said. "Most of the skips are connected to the construction industry in Dubai. We don't see a lot of skips in Abu Dhabi or Sharjah." 
Thousands of expatriates have lost their jobs in the Gulf trade and tourism hub of Dubai since the financial crisis triggered a real estate crash late last year that ended a six-year economic boom. 
Although growth in the number of "skips" has begun to level off in the past two months, Martin said, banks in the UAE could face a new wave of customers leaving with their debts unpaid as expats who have lost their jobs may wait to the end of the school year to leave. 
"We could see a resurgence of this at the end of June," he said. 
RAK Bank recovers around a quarter of the debt that goes unpaid as a result of one of the customers leaving the country, Martin said.

*That means about a couple of thousand cars also every month? Its getting worse!*


----------



## HussienMalaki

Dear all knowlageable forum readers,


I had a qick question for you regarding JV South.

I have purchased a unit in a tower called Abjar Tower by developer Khuyool. I was told by a business man that the government is not supplying water or electricity to that area at all. could you confirm for me if this is true or not, I also heard that nothing is being done in terms of construction in JV south.

If you could take a minuite or two to reply I would greatly appreciate it.
I have no clue what to do with this developer Khuyool any more, There hardly ever answer their e-mails and phone calls, I need to know if this is a major problem in JV South or is it just my tower that is cursed, I will seek legal consultaion once I get in dubai soon but for now I need to know everything you guys know about JV South and the potential issues.


regards
Hussien Malaki


----------



## jeetha

Hi Mr Malaki, 

You might find some answers here.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=449327&page=6


----------



## i love dubai

when I visited Dubai few months back, I heard from a real estate agent that JVS infrastructure has been delayed 2 to 3 years.


----------



## i love dubai

I am not sure why the infrastructure of JVS was delayed 2 to 3 years. I was told that it has been delayed, I never asked why, sorry.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai RERA plans global expansion

The Dubai RERA (Real Estate Regulatory Authority) plans to expand internationally and serve as an international real estate reference point, with the abbreviated name Menares, officials announced here yesterday.

*Menares is the abbreviation for Middle East and North Africa Real Estate Society, and has already been a part of several international property bodies.*

The Director-Real Estate Development Department at RERA, Mahmoud Al Burai, said "We are almost in the final stages of establishing Menares. We aim to build a professional real estate market and are serious about being on the top, globally."

RERA is a member of the five organizations controlling the real estate issues across the world, including International Real Estate Federation (FIABCI), the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors (RICS), the World Association of Valuation Organization (Wavo), the Asian Public Real Estate Association (APREA) and the Urban Land Institute (ULI).

RERA and Al Burai plans were in-line with that of H.H. Shaikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the Vice President and Prime Minister of UAE and Ruler of Dubai.

Although Menares will only serve as a 'reference body' rather than a regulatory one, Al Burai agreed that the authority will be "happy to assist" any country in the region with its own property regulation framework.

Al Burai agreed that all are focusing on Dubai, and using RERA as reference. Menares aims to encourage real estate education, real estate practices and professionalism.

The actual details of collaboration with other organizations are still being discussed.


----------



## bizzybonita

Risk factors for Middle East property sector

The major risk factors for the Middle East real estate sector this year, is the uncertainty of markets and continued fallout from the global credit crisis. The market volatility and negative surprises arising out of the credit crisis are the two major risk factors for property sector this year, according to a poll by Ernst & Young and Oxford Analytica.

The poll involved more than 100 analysts speaking about the top business risks threatening global firms in this sector. The top ten risks were rated for global business 2009. The other risk factors apart from the said are - the inadequate infrastructure, global war for talent, changing demographics, pricing uncertainty, inability to exploit global and non-traditional opportunities, green revolution, sustainability and climate change, economic vulnerability and regulatory risks in developing markets and volatile energy costs.

In the Middle East, the property sector also faces risks arising due to economic vulnerability and regulatory risks.

Those polled also said business growth plans should take into consideration the shifting demographics to determine the location, and funding of the project. The growing middle class, for instance, will lead to demand for basic services, including education, and create demand for tourism and leisure infrastructure. The unbalanced surplus luxury properties will continue in this sector, as long the regional players factor in the rise of growing middle class with a liking for affordable housing.


----------



## mrobbie

tehsin123 said:


> *That means about a couple of thousand cars also every month? Its getting worse!*


I don't believe there are a couple of thousand cars every month getting abandoned. Happy to listen to facts if you have any information on this.

I don't believe the 13 cars or whatever official line, but I don't think there would be more than 50-100 per month getting abandoned, if even that.


----------



## AltinD

Just a part of those people who are leaving unpaid Credit Card bills behind have cars, and not all of them who do have unpaid mortgages on them. These people are middle class, who mostly get company transportation arrangement.


----------



## Imre

*Salwan leases 5,600 Al Khail Gate units *

Staff Report
Published: May 24, 2009, 23:46


Dubai: Salwan LLC, a property management company and a subsidiary of Dubai Properties Group (DPG), on Sunday announced it has commenced leasing of 5,600 units at phase-II of the Al Khail Gate community.

It is extending special offers on a wide range of apartments at the development. 

Located in close proximity to Dubai's arterial highways, the Al Khail Gate is an affordable housing community offering premium facilities to corporate and residential clients. 

Offering a range of leasing options, the Al Khail Gate development comprises studio, one, two and three bedroom apartments. 

Ranging from Dh35,000 a year and onwards, the apartments are available in various sizes including 420 square feet studio, 690 square feet one bedroom, 966 square feet two bedroom and 1,150 square feet three bedroom apartments. 

Saeed Bushalat, CEO of Salwan, said: "The delivery of phase-II of Al Khail Gate closely follows the successful leasing out of phase-I of the development. There is a significant need for affordable and convenient housing in Dubai and we are committed to fulfilling the demand in these niche market segments. Our operational strategy focuses on fine-tuning our products and utilising market intelligence to develop the most suitable projects.

"At the same time, we have expanded the scope of our property management services to ensure that our growth strategy matches our operational capability. 

"Within a year, our portfolio has grown to 18,000 units and we are planning to bring an additional 8,000 properties for leasing by this year-end. We will continue to deliver sustainable and intelligent property management solutions to our clients."

Three months after the launch, Salwan has successfully leased out 3,835 units at Al Khail Gate phase-I. 

Salwan's current sphere of operations include residential and commercial units such as, Jumeirah Beach Residence and Cordoba Villas among others.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10316602.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

May 25 (Bloomberg) -- While their biggest customers may continue to wallow in recession into 2010, the oil-producing nations of the Persian Gulf are again luring foreign investment and looking for places to park their own wealth. 

Crude prices that have stabilized above $50 a barrel mean the Middle East’s oil-rich economies are likely to pull out of the global financial crisis sooner than the rest of the world. Saudi Arabia, the largest Arab economy and the world’s biggest oil exporter, is attracting renewed interest from investors including leveraged-buyout firm KKR & Co. Qatar and Abu Dhabi have returned to international capital markets. 

Stock markets are rallying across the region, led by Saudi Arabia, whose Tadawul All Share Index ended last week up 26 percent for the year to date, after tumbling 56.5 percent in 2008. 

“The expected resilience of oil prices puts the Gulf countries in a relatively privileged position compared to Europe and the U.S.,” says Eckart Woertz, an economist at the Gulf Research Center in Dubai. “In 2010, that is likely to lead to some resumption of growth, unlike in developed-market economies.” 

Crude oil traded at $61.61 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange at 10:33 a.m. in Singapore -- up 81 percent from around $34 on Feb. 12. Prices will remain above $50 for the rest of this year and top $60 next year, according to the median forecast of analysts surveyed by Bloomberg. 

Providing a Cushion 

While that’s still less than half the record $147.27 a barrel reached last July, savings built up during the boom from 2003 to 2008 are providing a cushion for most of the Gulf’s petroleum producers to get them through the worst recession since World War II. 

“Oil prices are going up and confidence levels are coming back, things are going in the right direction,” Mohammed al- Shihi, the director-general of the U.A.E. economy ministry, told a conference today in Abu Dhabi. 

Saudi Arabia’s economy will shrink 0.9 percent this year, according to the International Monetary Fund’s April forecast, while the United Arab Emirates is projected to decline 0.6 percent and Kuwait 1.1 percent. By comparison, the U.S. may contract 2.8 percent, the European Union 4 percent and Japan 6.2 percent, the IMF says. 

By next year, the IMF expects the Gulf oil states to resume expanding, with Saudi Arabia growing 2.9 percent and Kuwait 2.4 percent, while advanced economies as a whole have no growth. 

Oil Reserves 

As a result, the six states in the Gulf Cooperation Council, which hold 40 percent of global oil reserves, are already luring fresh capital from abroad. The Qatari joint venture of Newbury, England-based Vodafone Group Plc, the world’s largest mobile-phone company, raised about $1 billion last month in the country’s first initial public offering in nearly a year. 

Gulf oil exporters “have accumulated such big financial surpluses, and with ambitious expansionary fiscal budgets, things will be OK,” National Bank of Kuwait SAK Chief Executive Officer Ibrahim Dabdoub said in a May 14 interview at the World Economic Forum in Jordan. “We have started to see some green shoots here and there.” 

International investors have taken notice. A Euromoney investment conference last week in the Saudi capital of Riyadh drew 1,600 participants, including representatives of Bank of New York Mellon, HSBC and Barclays Capital. Saudis in traditional white robes and red-and-white headdresses crowded a five-star hotel along with businessmen in suits from the U.S. and Europe. 

Best Prospects 

Abu Dhabi, with more than 90 percent of the emirates’ oil, has the best prospects in the region, along with Saudi Arabia and Qatar, the world’s largest exporter of liquid natural gas, says Simon Williams, chief regional economist at HSBC Holdings Plc in Dubai. 

By contrast, the picture is a good deal grimmer in Dubai, which lacks the oil reserves of its U.A.E. partner Abu Dhabi and other neighbors. Dubai’s real-estate boom crashed last year, and it will continue to flounder, says Timothy Ash, head of emerging-market economics in London at Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc. 

The second-biggest of seven states making up the U.A.E., Dubai ran up debts of $80 billion and had to cancel projects including a waterfront development twice the size of Hong Kong Island. The traffic jams that clogged roads last year are gone; once-scarce taxis now sit outside residential buildings waiting for fares. Dubai property prices may fall as much as 70 percent from their peak, UBS AG predicts. 

Hiring in Dubai 

Even in Dubai, though, Emaar Properties PJSC, the U.A.E.’s biggest real-estate developer, says it is hiring 1,600 people for its retail, hospitality and leisure businesses, including three new attractions at Emaar’s Dubai Mall and three new hotels. And in the other Gulf economies, the presence of oil translates into a quickening of prospects. 

“There is inherent stability in these markets,” says Emad Mostaque, a London-based Middle East equity-fund manager for Pictet Asset Management Ltd.,which oversees about $100 billion globally. “Next year you will see this region outperform other emerging and global markets.” 

Mostaque says he is particularly interested these days in shares of Saudi consumer companies such as Riyadh-based food producer Almarai Co. 

KKR is studying Saudi investments as it aims to take advantage of the region’s “most attractive markets,” says Makram Azar, head of Middle Eastern operations. This month, KKR named Ford M. Fraker, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, as a senior adviser. 

Diminishing Risk 

Investors perceive diminishing risk on Gulf-region bonds, according to trading in credit default swaps. The cost of protecting against default by the Dubai government fell to 488 basis points on May 8 from a record high of 977 in February, CMA Datavision prices show. Saudi Arabia’s bond-default risk declined to about 162 basis points last week, from 335 basis points in February. 

The apparent end of plans for a Gulf monetary union -- the U.A.E. pulled out of the project on May 20 -- won’t alter the region’s growth outlook because all the countries in the proposed union except for Kuwait already peg their currencies to the dollar, Woertz says. 

In another sign that markets are opening up for Gulf borrowers, Qatar and Abu Dhabi raised $6 billion by selling bonds to international investors last month. Aldar Properties PJSC, Abu Dhabi’s biggest real-estate developer, sold $1.25 billion of 5-year notes May 21, becoming the first such firm in the U.A.E. to issue debt since August. 

Sovereign Wealth 

Meanwhile, Gulf sovereign-wealth funds, which turned their attention inward to shoring up domestic banks and domestic stock markets, now have an “appetite and cash available for selected strategic acquisitions” abroad, Woertz says. 

Saudi Arabia has sovereign assets of around $438 billion, up from $335 billion at the start of 2008, according to estimates by RGE Monitor in New York. Abu Dhabi holds a fund of about $300 billion, and Kuwait has about $210 billion. 

In March, Abu Dhabi agreed to buy 9.1 percent of German carmaker Daimler AG for 1.95 billion euros ($2.6 billion). Earlier this month it won approval to buy Nova Chemicals Corp., Canada’s largest chemical maker, for $499 million. 

The region’s continued dependence on oil and gas is a “strength, not a weakness” that generates long-term surpluses, says HSBC’S Williams. 

“I expect all of the region’s economies to fare well, including Dubai, which has a compelling economic case as the service hub for a rapidly growing and prosperous part of the world,” he says.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What is the resale market like at the moment for completed properties, anything moving at all?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Law No 9 can’t be used to cancel contracts by Dubai property buyers

From now on, the only way to cancel a contract is via the court by presenting a good case for termination or knocking on the doors of Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera), requesting an annulment of the real estate project. Thus, it's crystal clear that buyers are no longer in a position to cancel contracts under Law No 9 of 2009, fact even endorsed by legal experts. 

Not allowing buyers to cancel their contracts would prevent a lot of people from trying to take advantage of a down market. Only developers can cancel contracts under Law No 9 of 2009, meaning the law is slightly sympathetic to developers, legal experts said during yesterday's Dubai Property Society meeting. 

Freshly-introduced Law No 9 is pertaining to cancellations of all off-plan sale contracts, regardless of when the contract was signed, making the amendment retroactive.

http://www.gowealthy.com/gowealthy/...l-estate/Dubai-real-estate-1243231716035.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai: Though the Gulf region is seeing a total of 306 new hotels under construction at a value of over $140 billion (Dh514 billion), more will be needed by 2013 to satisfy the expected demand, a study says. 

Proleads, a research house for the leisure industry yesterday revealed a report at The Hotel Show, a hospitality services trade show that stated occupancy rates will return to previous levels by 2010, followed by significant growth by 2013. 

"Given projected increases in demand from 2013 onwards, more hotels will be required if relatively high occupancy levels are to be maintained.

Currently there are 306 hotel projects under construction budgeted at $140 billion. With an average completion period of two to three years 108,600 rooms should come online by 2011, said Emil Rademeyer, director of Proleads. 

While this year has been hit and the industry is expected to continue at very low levels of growth, "construction of hospitality projects will continue unabated," he said.

He said the *demand would return due to Dubai being a tourist destination, which will recover in a big way after the economic downturn*.

A high youth population will also drive demand up in the coming years. 

The research also addressed the critical cash flow issues. 

"The economic slowdown has resulted in much more cash flowing out of the hotel construction sector than into it," said Rademeyer. 

"This year, active cash flow is estimated to drop to below $20 billion (Dh73.4 billion). However the industry is then projected to restore its ability to replace cash flow by late 2010 with more flowing into the industry than out of it by 2011."

Maggie Moore, Exhibition Director of The Hotel Show, said examples of international brands looking to benefit from the expected growth include, Marriott, which manages the Ritz Carlton and Renaissance brands.

It plans to open 130 hotels in the next four years. Half will be in China, India and the UAE.

Accor, Europe's largest hotelier, also plans to more than triple the number of its hotels in the Middle East.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Hotel_and_Tourism/10316682.html


----------



## agod

Dubai_Steve said:


> Law No 9 can’t be used to cancel contracts by Dubai property buyers
> 
> From now on, the only way to cancel a contract is via the court by presenting a good case for termination or knocking on the doors of Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera), requesting an annulment of the real estate project. Thus, it's crystal clear that buyers are no longer in a position to cancel contracts under Law No 9 of 2009, fact even endorsed by legal experts.
> 
> Not allowing buyers to cancel their contracts would prevent a lot of people from trying to take advantage of a down market. Only developers can cancel contracts under Law No 9 of 2009, meaning the law is slightly sympathetic to developers, legal experts said during yesterday's Dubai Property Society meeting. Freshly-introduced Law No 9 is pertaining to cancellations of all off-plan sale contracts, regardless of when the contract was signed, making the amendment retroactive.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.gowealthy.com/gowealthy/...l-estate/Dubai-real-estate-1243231716035.html



Not entirely true that.

The first line of the law says "In the event that any purchaser shall be in default of any of the terms and conditions of the contract for the sale of real estste entered into with the developer"

Which means you have to be a defaulter, if not and your contract says you can end it, I dont see how this law applies.

Alan


----------



## Freestyler

*Is the U.S. Dollar Headed for a Mighty Crash?*

Each month, the US Treasury publishes its International Capital account (TIC) which foreign currency traders and bond dealers use to gauge the flows of money from around the world, into and out of the US capital markets. The demand for a nation’s bonds and stocks, combined with international trade flows for goods and services, plus behind the scenes intervention by central banks, all act in concert to influence the foreign exchange market which handles $4 trillion per day.

The release of the TIC report often sparks a flurry of trading activity in the foreign exchange market, due to speculators seeking to earn a fast profit. However, the initial knee-jerk reaction to the news headlines, can be very misleading, and often isn’t long-lasting. For instance, the US Dollar Index, measured against a basket of six currencies, defied conventional logic in February, by climbing +2.7% higher, even in the face of a net outflow of $91 billion in the TIC account.

Instead, large off shore traders are influencing exchange rates, and their betting patterns are difficult to discern on the G-20’s radar screens. The finance ministers of the "Group-of-20" (G-20) recognize the growing threat to their control over the currency markets, and are calling for increased regulation of hedge funds and shadow bankers, insisting on full disclosure of their locations and other information to assess the risks they pose to the manipulations of the major central banks.

The United States has become dangerously dependent upon the whims of foreign investors, to help finance its massive budget deficits, and prevent a surge in long-term interest rates, which would have a devastating impact on the US economy. If bond or currency traders detect that big investors in US government bonds, such as China, Japan, OPEC, Russia, and Brazil, have ceased to buy US Treasury debt, or worse yet, are becoming net sellers, it could spark a sharp slide in US Treasury notes, sending yields sharply higher, and ignite a free-fall in the US dollar.

Last week, the US Treasury tried to reassure bond and currency traders, that foreign investors haven’t abandoned the American debt markets, despite the avalanche of new debt that is swamping the market. The US Treasury claims that China and Japan were net buyers of a combined $48.5-billion of Treasuries in March, and that Moscow was a net buyer of $8.3-billion. Yet the reliability and accuracy of the TIC report should be viewed with a grain of salt, and a healthy dose of suspicion - perhaps the figures were conjured-up under the guise of "mark-to-make-believe" accounting.

President Barack Obama’s stimulus program could boomerang and destabilize on US-economy. No one is asking who will purchase the remaining $1 trillion of US Treasuries to be auctioned by September. Once that colossal amount of paper is bought, who will purchase another $5-trillion of Treasury paper over the next four years, as the US-government plunges deeper into insolvency? The Federal Reserve would be forced to print (monetize) vast quantities of US dollars to pay the principal and interest on the national debt that is not covered by tax revenue.

The US dollar’s surprising strength since last July was largely attributed to "de-leveraging" and "risk-aversion," which are references to the unwinding of "carry trades," in the foreign exchange market. On April 6th, famed hedge-fund trader George Soros remarked, "The US-dollar is not strong because people want to hold the dollar, but it’s strong because people have debt in dollars."

The enormous fortunes of Wall Street’s aristocracy were built-up on the leveraging of debt, including "carry-trades," in order to buy exotic securities built around sub-prime mortgages, and other instruments of financial speculation. But when the global commodity and stock markets began to meltdown following the collapse of Lehman Brothers, carry-traders began massive de-leveraging - the selling risky assets and buying US dollars and Japanese yen, to pay down margin loans.

There was also a stunning contraction in the US trade deficit, narrowing from $62.5-billion in August to $26-billion in February, its lowest level in nine-years, bolstering the greenback. The US current account deficit, which had increased for five straight years, fell to $673 billion in 2008 from $731 billion in 2007. The deficit equaled 4.7% of the overall US economy last year, down from 5.3% in 2007.

But the US dollar’s "risk-aversion" rally came to an abrupt end on March 18th, when the Federal Reserve shocked the markets by announcing that it would unleash its nuclear weapon, "Quantitative Easing" (QE), by printing $1.1-trillion US dollars off its electronic printing press, to monetize US T-Notes and mortgage backed securities, in an all-out effort to prevent a deflationary spiral in the US economy, which in turn, could lead to widespread defaults on debt and bankruptcies.

By pumping vast quantities of US dollars into the global money markets, easily outstripping the money printing operations in England, the Euro-zone, Japan, and Switzerland, the Fed has headed off the prospect of deflation. Instead, the Fed has reawakened the "Commodity Super Cycle," led by the kingpin crude-oil market, which is feeding off a weaker dollar and ultra-low interest rates worldwide. Crude oil rose above $62 per barrel today, from as low as $35 in January.

The Fed has pumped $1-trillion into the banking system since July, increasing the monetary base to a record $1.87 trillion, while pegging the fed funds rate near zero-percent. Super-easy money, beloved by Fed chief Ben "Bubbles" Bernanke, US Treasury chief Tim "Turbo-tax" Geithner, corrupt Washington politicians and Wall Street Oligarchs, is a traditional recipe for an asset bubble.

Full article: http://seekingalpha.com/article/138...r-a-mighty-crash-part-i?source=hp_mostpopular


----------



## Bobby G

I have received a notice from a developer I bought a unit from, AL MASAH, in JVS Jouri project. They have told me I need to pay some registration fee with OQOOD, something I have never heard of, for the offplan unit.

Is this something that I have to pay for or they have to pay for?

Also, is this any different to registration fee from Land Department?

Can someone shed some light asap please?!? Thanks!


----------



## 234sale

370AED is the fee

They should pay for it. I'm just diging out the document from RERA for you.

Contact RERA and they will also confirm


----------



## 234sale

Ever developer I know is paying this fee. The are not allowed to charge anything but a max of 5000AED fee if you resale through Oqood.


----------



## 234sale

See under "What is first registration"


----------



## luluprovence

with reference to the icon towers; the charges for handover were 
1. balance
2. 1% of PP + 390 [affection plan]
3. 900 handover fees 

does this mean that i can apply for a refund on the 390? i'm assuming that 900 is not ok.

of course the service charges esp pdc is another story altogether.


----------



## Bobby G

Thank you very much mate!


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> What is the resale market like at the moment for completed properties, anything moving at all?


I speak to agents every 2/3 weeks and the same story is that certain areas like the marina and JLT is where most of the interest is.Most other areas are dead.Ive been told prices are stabilising which is the only good news although with summer approaching who knows what may happen.
Personally Ive lost faith in the Dubai property market.


----------



## noir-dresses

Don't lose faith my son


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai sees world's biggest real estate reverse - study
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/556796-dubai-sees-worlds-biggest-real-estate-reverse---study

The good news is that prices in Latvia fell more !


----------



## FWIW

234sale said:


> Ever developer I know is paying this fee. The are not allowed to charge anything but a max of 5000AED fee if you resale through Oqood.


Sale - All the pdf files of the laws are also here (original arabic versions too):

http://groups.google.com/group/dubai-property-investors/files?hl=en&&sort=date


----------



## Mistermark

Wannaberich said:


> Dubai sees world's biggest real estate reverse - study
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/556796-dubai-sees-worlds-biggest-real-estate-reverse---study
> 
> The good news is that prices in Latvia fell more !


As a former journalist, I've got to say this story shows how useless the Middle East press really are. The headline tells us Dubai has suffered the world's biggest real estate reversal. A couple of pars later, they're admitting it's actually the second worst, after Latvia...

In fact, I'd bet that Dubai's _is_ the worst, in that the real fall was a lot more than 32 percent, whereas Latvia's 36 percent may be accurate.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> As a former journalist, I've got to say this story shows how useless the Middle East press really are. The headline tells us Dubai has suffered the world's biggest real estate reversal. A couple of pars later, they're admitting it's actually the second worst, after Latvia...
> 
> In fact, I'd bet that Dubai's _is_ the worst, in that the real fall was a lot more than 32 percent, whereas Latvia's 36 percent may be accurate.


The report says Latvia has suffered the worlds biggest drop in prices only and not the biggest reversal.


----------



## noir-dresses

Check out some of the latest realestate reports in the States, we all know they will rebound sooner, or later just like Dubai

Homes: Almost 20% cheaper
S&P/Case-Shiller index reports huge decline of 19.1% for the first quarter.



Last Updated: May 26, 2009: 11:44 AM ET

ROAD TO RESCUE
Treasury prices ease 
Homes: Almost 20% cheaper 
Zombie banks walk among us 
Obama signs credit card crackdown 
FDIC shifts failure cost burden to big banks 

Quick Vote
For Money's upcoming Best Places to Live list, we'd like to know: What's most important to you when choosing where to live? 
Good jobsAffordable homesTop schoolsLow crimeThings to do or View resultsS&P/Case-Shiller 20-city home price index 
Metro area 1-year change (%) 
Phoenix -36.0% 
Las Vegas -31.2% 
San Francisco -30.1% 
Miami -28.7% 
Detroit -25.7% 
Minneapolis -23.3% 
Tampa -22.4% 
Los Angeles -22.3% 
San Diego -22.0% 
Chicago -18.6% 
Washington -18.4% 
Seattle -16.4% 
Atlanta -15.7% 
Portland -15.3% 
New York -11.8% 
Charlotte -9.3% 
Cleveland -9.0% 
Boston -8.0% 
Dallas -5.6% 
Denver -5.5% 

Composite-20 -18.7% 


Source:S&P/Case-Shiller 

Current Mortgage Rates 

Type Overnight avgs 


30 yr fixed mtg 5.00% 
15 yr fixed mtg 4.70% 
30 yr fixed jumbo mtg 6.33% 
5/1 ARM 4.60% 
5/1 jumbo ARM 5.09% 

Find personalized rates:


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The home price slide accelerated during the first three months of 2009, according to a report issued Tuesday.

The S&P/Case-Shiller National Home Price index, a bellwether of real-estate market direction, plunged a record 19.1% during the quarter compared with the first three months of 2008. That followed an 18.2% drop last quarter.

The Case-Shiller 20-city index dropped 18.7% year-over-year, also a record. It fell 18.5% during the last three months of 2008. This index has plummeted 32.2% from its July 2006 peak and has fallen 32 straight months.

The national index covers almost all homes sold throughout the United States and is reported quarterly, while the 20-city index reports sales in 20 major metro areas and represents a cross section of the national market. The 20-city index comes out every month. 

"Declines in residential real estate continued at a steady pace into March," said David Blitzer, chairman of the Index Committee at Standard & Poor's in a prepared statement. "All 20 metro areas are still showing negative annual rates of change in average home prices with nine of the metro areas having record annual declines."

The ugly report was somewhat unexpected, according to Mike Larson, a real estate analyst for Weiss Research. 

"The market was anticipating better results," he said. "There had been some signs of increased sales in post-bubble markets." 

But that sales increase has not translated into higher prices. Bargain hunting - bottom fishing really - for foreclosures and other distressed properties has driven sales volume up while further depressing prices. 

The foreclosure sales, which many appraisers used to ignore when they evaluated home prices because they represented outliers rather than typical sales, now have to be accounted for. 

"These used to be anomalies," said Larson. "Now, when sales are dominated by foreclosures, where they represent 50% or more of [transactions], they are the market." 

The market plague has burst far beyond its Sun Belt epicenter, as the latest month's data reveals. In March, Minneapolis recorded the largest monthly price loss of any metro area in the 20-city index, losing 6.1% compared with February. That is the biggest single-month decline for a city in index history.

Sun-Belt cities still had the largest year-over-year declines in March, with Phoenix prices down 36%, Las Vegas off 31.2% and San Francisco dropping 30.1%. 

Two cities have now have fallen more than 50% from their peak prices: Phoenix is down 53% since June 2006 and Las Vegas is off 50.4% from its August 2006 high. Dallas prices suffered the smallest loss from peak, just 11.1% since June 2007. 

Economist Mark Zandi, the founder of Moody's Economy.com, is optimistic that the market will stop falling sometime this summer or fall. "We need to focus on the mortgage-modification program," he said. "If that plan doesn't work or only works as well as the other modification programs have, we've got a problem." 

First Published: May 26, 2009: 9:13 AM ET


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> Dubai sees world's biggest real estate reverse - study
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/556796-dubai-sees-worlds-biggest-real-estate-reverse---study
> 
> The good news is that prices in Latvia fell more !


Bla Bla - they also said prices increased 48% last year so that is still 7% up since last year :banana: so still good news for those who invested before that.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/may/26/dubai-property-crash

In any cases prices should rebound quite fast by end of 2010 / early 2011, so as long as yields are 8%+ who cares :banana:

I wonder what prices will be in 7 to 10 years (after I have paid off my mortgage with rental income) that is what matters to me.

Good time to invest at the end of this year for those who missed the boat first time around.


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai will be stronger than before, DIFC governor says 
Staff Report
Published: May 26, 2009, 23:09


Dubai: The economy has turned a corner and Dubai will emerge from this period stronger than before, Dr Omar Bin Sulaiman, governor of the Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC), said in a meeting on Tuesday.

"We believe that we have in place the financial and economic infrastructure to enable Dubai to rebound more quickly than other economies. 

"But Dubai will do much more than weather the storm; it will come out stronger," Bin Sulaiman told the Capital Club, Dubai's premier private business club.

Bin Sulaiman outlined the fiscal and policy actions taken by the UAE and Dubai governments to move from stabilisation to recovery. 

"We have already taken many fiscal, monetary and policy steps to stabilise the economy, but as we move forward into recovery mode we are at the point when the government's active and broad-based engagement with the private sector will be most beneficial. Now is the time for a wider engagement with you, the leaders of the business community," Bin Sulaiman said.

Andrew Christon, general manager of the Capital Club, said: "Dr Omar set the agenda for the Capital Club's speakers' programme, starting with his first talk in 2007. 

"His insight and expertise ensure our members in the private industry are aware of the government's strategy and how they can support it."

The Business Lunch Forum with Bin Sulaiman was the latest fixture of the Capital Club's speakers' programme, which has hosted Shaikha Lubna Al Qasimi, Minister of Foreign Trade and member of the Capital Club's board of governors; José María Figueres, former Costa Rican President and CEO of Concordia 21 in Spain; Formula One driver Giancarlo Fisichella, and Miha Pogacnik, one of the world's leading violinists.

The Capital Club opened on April 9, 2008, in the DIFC's Gate Village. Since its launch in late 2006, the Capital Club has attracted over 1,250 members, including some of the region's most senior decision-makers, and leaders in business, finance and government.


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai: Petitions over Petitions - and no Response - The sheikhdom`collapsing property market*

source MaktoobBusiness

The British government is being asked to help UK investors in Dubai who fear losing millions of dollars in the sheikdom's collapsing property market. A group of investors based in the UK have sent a petition to Prime Minister Gordon Brown asking him to intervene in what they claim are "harmful real estate practices" in the United Arab Emirates.



"We as investors have recently discovered the blatant embezzlement of our money by unscrupulous developers," the petition, seen by newswire Zawya Dow Jones, says. The petition was referred by Downing Street to the Foreign Office.

"We have been contacted by individual investors," a spokesperson for the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office told Zawya Dow Jones. "The FCO takes this matter seriously."

A near 50 percent fall in real estate prices in some parts of Dubai has spurred a rash of increasingly ugly real estate disputes between developers and investors. The industry accounts for 30 percent of the emirate's economy.

The Dubai Land Department estimates that British investors own property worth 4.7 billion dirhams ($1.3 billion) in the emirate. British buyers now account for 12 percent of international property investors in the emirate, behind Saudis and Indian buyers, according to regional investment bank EFG-Hermes.

The involvement of the British government on behalf of disgruntled property buyers will further damage the reputation of Dubai as it struggles to clean up its financial image and attract foreign investment that's vital for its economy.

The Foreign Office spokesperson said that while the British government would advise investors on how to resolve disputes "ultimately this is a legal matter between the interested parties".

Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Agency, the government watchdog, did not respond to written questions from Zawya Dow Jones, but Thursday said it plans to set up new "real-estate communities" to increase transparency. 

British national Nick Jasani is one of a group of investors who is lobbying parliamentary representatives to put pressure on Downing Street to intervene in the rising number of disputes on their behalf.

Jasani, who bought a commercial unit from a developer in Dubai's Business Bay district for 2 million dirhams in early 2007, is worried because construction at the project hasn't started, even though he's already paid 640,000 dirhams or 30 percent of the unit's value.

He said the Dubai-based developer is still demanding payment installments even though they're not working on the project.

A letter seen by Zawya Dow Jones and sent by a number of individual investors to Members of Parliament states that "even though projects have no hope of going ahead due to the current financial climate, the money (investors) they have put down may not be refunded."

As the bottom falls out of Dubai's once-soaring property market, developers are scrambling to respond. Many are being forced to cancel or delay projects amid falling sales and property prices.

Last month, a report by investment bank Morgan Stanley said the United Arab Emirates is delaying or canceling real-estate projects worth more than $260 billion. An earlier HSBC report said Dubai is delaying or canceling almost 60 projects worth $75 billion.

Amid growing uncertainty about whether they'll see their money again, investors are organising themselves to take on the emirate's sometimes unscrupulous developers and convoluted real estate regulations.

This week a group of more than 100 investors delivered a petition signed by more than 350 investors to Dubai developer Nakheel's office urging the firm to reschedule payment plans for villas on Palm Jebel Ali because of delays.

This followed a petition to Emaar Properties, the Middle East's largest developer, requesting the cancellation of three of its projects.

Nakheel did not respond to questions from Zawya Dow Jones.

"There are certainly a number of investors who seem to have claims with merit. Others simply have been caught out by a falling market and insufficient contractual protection," said Matthew Hooton, head of real estate in the Middle East for law firm Ashurst.


----------



## AdamHun

*Advice needed*

Hi Guys,

I`d need your advice on my investment since you are more experienced in the dubai property market...

I`ve got a letter from my developer recently, saying that they postpone/put on hold the project for 180 days (too many defaulters, they need finance), so they want me not to pay the installments for the time being, payments will be rescheduled.

Details: contract signed : 2007 october, 50% already payed, installments are not linked to construction.

All in all, the property manager told me he has the right to postpone the completion date, I told him I`m not sure.

Can you please advice and share your opinion what can/should I do, and how can I proceed?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## 234sale

You could ask for a refund, but you would require the over burdened property court to take action. Which may take 2 years with the current amount of cases. I would avoid doing this before the anticipated completion date as they may deem this as you trying to break the contract early.

Dubai being an Islamic Country, the courts always follows the written contract.

Your Options

1.	I send a letter not agreeing with the letter sent highlighting your contract specifics.
2.	Negotiate some final discount from your unit.
3.	Cancel through RERA

The cancellation process is also difficult, its not as easy as just refunding as who has the money, which is probably already in the tower if its under C.

When it comes closer to the original anticipated completion date I am sure they will want to negotiate.

Be aware

Anticipated Completion, Completion, Handover are 3 stages. They would need to achieve a completion certificate to hand over the unit to you. But they may deem completion as them finishing works.


----------



## Porcello

I think he has the right to postpone the completion date, and you have the right to cancel the contract 180 days after the anticipated completion date and ask to have your money fully refunded. 
I also believe that RERA now can force developers to link installments to construction even if your contract says otherwise.


----------



## Imre

Press Release

*The Specialists leverages global network of customers to help restore investor confidence in Dubai property market*

Influx of new foreign capital crucial to sustain growth of real estate sector

May 27, 2009
The Real Estate Specialists, a complete real estate solutions provider with over 20 years experience in the Gulf region, has recently announced that it is leveraging its extensive global network of partners and customers to support an ongoing campaign to boost consumer confidence in the UAE's real estate market. Furthermore, The Specialists revealed that it has taken steps to help make it easier for investors, particularly foreign nationals, to buy properties as part of initiatives aimed at boosting liquidity in the property sector and sustaining market growth.

The Specialists disclosed that government intervention will also play a major role in creating new avenues for fresh investments to enter the property sector by implementing investor-friendly policies and streamlining investment processes. The banks' renewed interest to offer financing facilities has been another important deciding factor identified by The Specialists that will help attract new capital into the country's real estate industry.

Mohamed El Sabbagh, Managing Director, The Real Estate Specialists said: "Efforts to boost consumer confidence are crucially important to reach our ultimate goal of reinvigorating the property market. The Specialists has contributed to such a campaign by leveraging our global network of partners and customers to create awareness about the positive developments that are happening in the property market of Dubai and the UAE. Investors need to be properly informed to make rational investment decisions and to encourage them to resume their investment activities."

"The decision to provide short-term, multiple-entry visas to foreign owners of properties was certainly a very commendable move by the UAE Federal Government that will surely create a positive impression on foreign investors. Measures such as this are clear indications that the UAE is moving in the right direction towards ultimately recapturing the confidence of international investors," added Sabbagh.

The UAE Federal Government recently introduced a multiple-entry visa for owners of properties and residential units in the UAE, allowing them to stay in the country for up to six months. Furthermore, the new law also allows the applicant's spouse and children to stay in the country. The Specialists expects that such measures will provide the impetus to drive consumer confidence and help in gradually stabilising property prices in the UAE. 

The Specialists delivers a comprehensive range of services to cover all types of property transactions within both the commercial and residential markets, for lease and for sale. The company additionally offers comprehensive property management services to clients in the UAE, while it has also been expanding across other key markets in the Middle East including Lebanon.


----------



## tehsin123

*UAE's first property auction flops*

None of the four lots in the UAE's first public property auction made their reserve price on Tuesday evening.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/556839-properties-fail-to-hit-reserve-price-at-first-uae-auction


----------



## 234sale

Porcello said:


> I think he has the right to postpone the completion date, and you have the right to cancel the contract 180 days after the anticipated completion date and ask to have your money fully refunded.
> I also believe that RERA now can force developers to link installments to construction even if your contract says otherwise.


That is correct as well, your project will only be late if it passes the 180 days grace extension. So that could be another 6 months before you could refund.

I think your contract is for Business Bay developer, maybe Dubai Properties itself.


----------



## malec

Mistermark said:


> As a former journalist, I've got to say this story shows how useless the Middle East press really are. The headline tells us Dubai has suffered the world's biggest real estate reversal. A couple of pars later, they're admitting it's actually the second worst, after Latvia...
> 
> In fact, I'd bet that Dubai's _is_ the worst, in that the real fall was a lot more than 32 percent, whereas Latvia's 36 percent may be accurate.


I think when prices went up so fast last year, that smelled of a big crash coming soon. I remember last year prices of each new tower launched in DBD increasing from 2000 per square foot, to 3000, then 4000, 5000 and even 7000. How can an increase like that not be followed by a massive crash?


----------



## 234sale

tehsin123 said:


> None of the four lots in the UAE's first public property auction made their reserve price on Tuesday evening.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/556839-properties-fail-to-hit-reserve-price-at-first-uae-auction


The first auction I went to was in 2006 at the Burj Al Arab where Dubai Properties sold the unlimited plots in the Cresent Cluster of BB Bay. Aka the UN land. 

Then if I remember 3 other attempts to start property auctions, but they always failed as buyers were unrealistic with reserves or lack of interest. 

If you want to sell your property, make it the cheapest on the market and it will be the first to be picked up. Just sticking it with an glitz agent wont make a difference. 

If you ask any agent what is selling, they will say, always the cheapest units go. Everything has a value, even if its going to potentially be scraped as some may fancy a punt.


----------



## 234sale

malec said:


> I think when prices went up so fast last year, that smelled of a big crash coming soon. I remember last year prices of each new tower launched in DBD increasing from 2000 per square foot, to 3000, then 4000, 5000 and even 7000. How can an increase like that not be followed by a massive crash?


Yep, but at the time it felt real.










Average Advertised Prices vs actual selling prices.


Back to the Auctions, they are not new.. heres another one from June 2008
http://www.realestatewebmasters.com/blogs/mark-wallington/5570/show/

Now the issue is fee's in reselling. Agents are charging 3% and Lands Department is charging 2%.
Say the average property is likely to be 2M AED so that makes 100,000 AED fees at 5%
Thus even with lending at 80% you can't borrow against the fees so you require 500,000AED to buy the average property.


----------



## AdamHun

^^
Thanks you for the prompt reply Sale and Porcello.
My contract is for Dunes Tower, JVS. Tower: 25% completed.
The developer seems to be fair (communicating to purchasers counts something nowadays).

I`d try to avoid the court, although have no experience on this.

The letter I got says they want to postpone it with 180 days, which is in match with Clause 13.2.
They told me, they would send me the new payment schedule later and they need my signature for it.
I don`t exactly know what would happen if I agreed on this.

If anyone interested I gladly forward the letter in a pm to have a look.


----------



## Porcello

AdamHun said:


> ^^
> Thanks you for the prompt reply Sale and Porcello.
> My contract is for Dunes Tower, JVS. Tower: 25% completed.
> The developer seems to be fair (communicating to purchasers counts something nowadays).
> 
> I`d try to avoid the court, although have no experience on this.
> 
> The letter I got says they want to postpone it with 180 days, which is in match with Clause 13.2.
> They told me, they would send me the new payment schedule later and they need my signature for it.
> I don`t exactly know what would happen if I agreed on this.
> 
> If anyone interested I gladly forward the letter in a pm to have a look.


I forgot to add that you have another option: defaulting.

If you stop paying, the developer has the right to file for cancellation of your contract at the land department. If the cancellation is authorized, the developer can retain a certain amount of the original price depending on the construction status and has one year max to return the balance to you.
This whole process is brand new and still untested, though, and nobody know if it will actually work.

Oh, if you sign the new installment schedule, make sure they don't amend the anticipated completion date or the exit clause.... JV is quite a risky project and if I were you I would not give away the only real possibility to recover money in case something goes wrong.


----------



## ianxgrant

Depends what your idea of default is:

If you consider defaulting to be walking away from the country forever, and possibly leaving a debt over your head, then that is one thing.

If you think that a developer will terminate a contract (because you have defaulted) and this means that you get some money back you are kidding yourself on. A developer has to decide if you are defaulting and it is the developer that contacts the Land Department. With the new law, it is in the best interest of the developer to keep you hanging on, possibly even give you deferred payment option, as the further construction progresses, the more you have to give them.

Let's say you've only paid 15% deposit but construction has not started. If the developer accepts that you are going to default, why would they tell the Land Dept (and then give you 70% of your money back)? Surely they would say that your payment plan is on hold, until they've poured the first slab, then they are entitled to 25% of the total value of the property. This will be the same right through and if it is a small apartment block that can be built quickly, you'd better look out because when they get to 80% complete, they can keep everything you've given them. The law is designed to keep buyers locked in to pay for the property they committed to. This in turn supports the developers in completing all of the property that is already under construction. Any talk of getting money back is raising false hopes, I'm afraid.


----------



## Wannaberich

Off-plan is officially dead

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...5272009_c8dabbb22f924b16b07045a56fc409cd.aspx


----------



## AdamHun

Porcello said:


> I forgot to add that you have another option: defaulting.
> 
> If you stop paying, the developer has the right to file for cancellation of your contract at the land department. If the cancellation is authorized, the developer can retain a certain amount of the original price depending on the construction status and has one year max to return the balance to you.
> This whole process is brand new and still untested, though, and nobody know if it will actually work.
> 
> Oh, if you sign the new installment schedule, make sure they don't amend the anticipated completion date or the exit clause.... JV is quite a risky project and if I were you I would not give away the only real possibility to recover money in case something goes wrong.


Thanks for the advice.

The idea isn`t that bad, however it clearly indicates the condition of the dubai prop market. If a "normal" investor has to start to think about defaulting on purpose... :bash:


----------



## noir-dresses

Its not dead, just slow at the moment like every where else in the world.

aaaaand, 5 percent of transactions is still alot


----------



## smussuw

HateTorch said:


> ^^
> Is the above true ?
> If so, I am even more impressed by Dubai for its audacity to make such a blatant lie. Hats off to Dubai :banana:


The royal family has 100s of members, blaming the whole family for the doing of a mere 2nd class Sheikh isn't fair.


----------



## hourad

Imre said:


> I got the same by email, I offered them 300 dhs/sqft but still no answer


300 AED * 1033 sq. ft. is 309,900 AED. Now International City is this price for studio. 

Why some friends try to share unreal news? 

Why they are not telling, Springs 2 bedroom now is minimum 1.2 million and 100,000 AED raise up during 1 month?

Why they are not telling, Emaar share market 50% raise up during 2 weeks?


----------



## HappyLarry

*This doesn't look good at all for Dubai*

Dubai Property Scandal Claim Emerges Amid Media Blackout

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/28/dubai-property-scandal-cl_n_208513.html


----------



## noir-dresses

I never knew there was a status of 1st, and 2nd class Sheikh's, is'nt a Sheikh a Sheikh ?????????

It's just a little glitch in the matrix, they'll find a way to fix it


----------



## Naz UK

Anyone who hands over money for a whole in the ground deserves to lose every penny. It's as simple as that. The fact some investors cant get off their sorry arses and go visit the sites themselves beggers belief! Serves you right.


----------



## Wannaberich

Naz UK said:


> Anyone who hands over money for a whole in the ground deserves to lose every penny. It's as simple as that. The fact some investors cant get off their sorry arses and go visit the sites themselves beggers belief! Serves you right.


So anyone who brought off-plan basically deserves to get screwed?
That includes those international investors who would need to get off their sorry arses and catch a plane to visit these sites.Get real.
The problem isnt ignorant investors,its trusting investors who had no reason to believe the developer they had gone with was a crook.
The Dubai goverment has proved useless in dealing with these people but will suffer.The worst the reputation of Dubai becomes as a place to invest in property,the less people will place thier money there.


----------



## sidxb

Wannaberich said:


> So anyone who brought off-plan basically deserves to get screwed?


Its not ANYONE. There were few who bought at right time and sold at right time making profit. 
Others who were not ready to move there sorry arses and get to the plane should know that if they were looking to DOUBLE there money in a year without any effort ... there would always be associated risk. These are simplest rules of investing. Dubai is not reinventing the capitalism here .


----------



## Imre

HappyLarry said:


> Dubai Property Scandal Claim Emerges Amid Media Blackout
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/28/dubai-property-scandal-cl_n_208513.html


same story here:


http://7starsdubai.wordpress.com/

http://dubai7stars.blogspot.com/

http://dynastyzarooni.blogspot.com/


----------



## Imre

*Construction materials price drop not helping contractors *

By Jane Ferguson, Business Features Writer
Published: May 28, 2009, 23:14


Dubai: With a recent freefall in prices of construction commodities worldwide, it would be easy to presume that contractors for once have something to smile about. 

However, the good news pales in comparison to the overall hit contractors are taking from the downturn in the property market. 

The cost of rebar, steel used in construction, cement and timber has fallen from massive highs reached six months ago.

In that period, rebar has dropped from around $1,500 (Dh5,505) per tonne to around $500 currently, timber has gone from Dh1,200 per square metre to Dh900 and plywood has come down from Dh130 per piece to Dh115, said Rizwan Sajan, chairman of building materials company Danube. 

Soaring cement prices were cut back last May from some Dh24 to Dh25 per 50 kg bag to Dh17 after intervention by the Ministry of Economy, and remain between Dh16 and Dh17 currently.

"It is definitely becoming cheaper than six months ago," said Sajan. "Demand has come down, that is for sure."

In Dubai Marina it used to cost Dh1,500 to Dh2,000 per square foot to contract prime real estate, he explained. Now that has fallen to as low as Dh1,000. "At least 25 to 30 per cent you can save in the construction cost. Minimum."

Any stockpiles of such commodities are coming to an end, say those in the industry. "People were caught with a lot of stocks and stopped importing," said Sajan.

Riad Bsaibes, chief operating officer for Amana Contracting and Steel Buildings, agreed, saying that last summer suppliers overstocked.

Currently, he added, some say there is only about a month's stock of rebar left.

"Back in October there were talks of six months' stock," said Bsaibes. 

At first glance therefore it would seem that contractors in the UAE are able to increase their margin. However, despite the chance to increase profits on certain contracts, those in the business say the existing market conditions and other factors far outweigh these possible benefits.

Many contracts still to be finished will have been signed by developers and contractors back when material costs were at record highs, said Shafiq Mohammad, purchasing officer at Core Construction Company. 

So the dip in prices can be transferred into extra funding for them. "That's profit now," he said.

However, he talks of profit and loss in the same sentence, saying that the cost to the company of contracts that have been cancelled cannot be underestimated. "The profit is okay, but most of the projects are stopped."

Bsaibes pointed out that contractors already work on small margins, and comparatively the value of that margin to that of the contracts which have been put on hold is small. "So our overhead is already eaten up."

Asked whether the fall in commodity prices could help reignite any of those previously scrapped contracts, provided the contractors were able to quote cheaper prices for developers, Mohammad didn't seem optimistic. "Maybe they will start," he said.

Bsaibes added that some contractors would be able to transfer the savings into profit, but "in other cases the clients came back and renegotiated contracts".

He added that Amana "had to give some discounts".

With prices in buildings already finished easing, there are bargains to be had by buyers, especially in the case of distress sales. These prices can be impossible for contractors to compete with.

"You might very well find people selling below cost price," said Bsaibes, stressing that the imbalance in supply and demand in the market is the main challenge to all. 

"That will trump any other factor."

Industrial construction is one of the only sectors which could reap the benefits of falling material coasts, he said, as delays are more rare and funding more available. 

"These projects are less likely to get impacted," he said, "because they have to build roads and bridges."

The slight hike in steel prices does not mean there will be a return to last year's peaks. 

Sajan pointed out that much has been made of recent increases in steel prices, which went from around $450 per ton in March to roughly $500 per ton in April. 

Compared to $1500 just six months ago however, this is not a marked increase, he noted. 

"If you look at it, the prices in April are better than March. But that's a marginal increase."

Bsaibes believes building material prices will not decrease any further.

"If there is any [further] drop it is going to be minimal," added Bsaibes. "I don't think the prices will go back to what they were a year ago."

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Construction/10317846.html


----------



## Wannaberich

sidxb said:


> Its not ANYONE. There were few who bought at right time and sold at right time making profit.
> Others who were not ready to move there sorry arses and get to the plane should know that if they were looking to DOUBLE there money in a year without any effort ... there would always be associated risk. These are simplest rules of investing. Dubai is not reinventing the capitalism here .


Yes there would always be 'associated risk'.You expect risk in the form of the market crashing,oversupply etc,yet most investors would not have expected such widespread corruption,incompetence,delays,general bullshit,plus an
ineffective goverment.
Getting on a plane should not be necessary.


----------



## Mistermark

sidxb said:


> Its not ANYONE. There were few who bought at right time and sold at right time making profit.
> Others who were not ready to move there sorry arses and get to the plane should know that if they were looking to DOUBLE there money in a year without any effort ... there would always be associated risk. These are simplest rules of investing. Dubai is not reinventing the capitalism here .


I disagree. The lesson of history, including the 1930s US Depression and the current financial downturn, is that capitalism requires confidence in the system. We all believed that the Dubai government had the wit and intent to ensure that developers promoting projects in the Emirate would be held to account if they didn't deliver as promised; we've since discovered that the legal system is largely dysfunctional and the government makes up ambiguous, contradictory and retroactive laws as it goes along.

The lack of new off-plan sales, even at much realigned pricing, is proof of the fact that international capital no longer trusts Dubai. In my view the solution lays with the government, not individual developers.


----------



## noir-dresses

International capital has dried up every where in the world, and you cant say it does'nt trust dubai because of one, or a few projects. For god sakes you have scams, screw ups every where.

There are hundreds of projects on hold, or even holes in the ground in the whole world at this moment.

Realestate prices have dropped everywhere, aswell as over supply that cant sell at all in the whole world that is.

It's a problem with liquidity, banks dont even lend other banks money either because they dont have enough cash, or they dont trust other banks not knowing if they have toxic assets. 

Governments are even bailing out world banks, airlines, auto industry, insurance companys, etc, etc around the world.

Get a grip on things guys, its a WORLD ECONOMIC VERY BIG SLOW DOWN, and Dubai is just a drop in the bucket compared to the real problems in the world. Westerners are losing jobs the population of Dubai every month, if not more, Germany just last week had its biggest contraction of almost 5 percent, the States in the shitter, EU is hurting, and so on, and so on !!!!!

The UAE is in very good shape compared to other places, and they will get out of this sooner, and easier with there resources.


----------



## noir-dresses

Expats enjoy the single life 


Dubai Marina is one of the most popular areas for young expats. (DENNIS B MALLARI) 




By 

Aimee Greaves on Friday, May 29, 2009 

Briton Dan Parkinson moved to Dubai in the early months of 2007, just as the property boom was taking hold in the Emirates.

Despite earning what he described as a "healthy" salary, he had little choice but to move into shared accommodation.

However, since the reversal in property prices, Parkinson, 32, has been able to move into his own one-bedroom apartment in Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT).

Parkinson, an advertising executive, is among a growing number of people who have secure work in the UAE and are using the slide in rental values to finally step out on their own, according to experts.

He says: "When I moved here, I gave myself a couple of months to settle, but by the time I was ready to find somewhere to live, the prices were ridiculous so I had no choice but to share.

"Although still high, I can now afford to live on my own – and I'm much happier for it."

And Parkinson is not alone. There is a growing number of expats taking advantage of the downturn in properties' prices to branch out on their own after years of sharing.

With new apartments still coming online every month, especially in JLT and Dubai Marina, increased competition is keeping the market in the tenants' favour.

"We have had more people hunting for accommodation now sharers can afford their own place," says Rose-Marie Kilzi, Leasing and Resale Director of Great Properties.

"Discovery Gardens is particularly popular at the moment because it is one of the cheaper areas."

The clamp down on villa sharing last year forced a number of people to move to apartments but those with the luxury of being able to wait have picked up some bargains over the past one to two months. One-bedroom apartments in The Greens, for example, are now on the market for around Dh75,000 a year compared to Dh120,000 six months ago.

Melissa Morrison, Property Manager for Leasing at Dubai Luxury Homes, has seen a rise in the number of singles and couples looking for a new home that will provide more privacy.

"People who were living in shared villas in Jumeirah paying Dh6,500 a month for a room are realising it isn't worth it now because they can get a one-bedroom flat for Dh78,000," she says.

There is, however, conflict as to whether this trend will see the price of one- and two-bedroom units rise in the coming months. 

Morrison says this has already started. "The Fairways apartments, which were handed over three to four months ago, started off at Dh65,000 then went to Dh70,000. Now they are between Dh80,000 and Dh85,000 a year," she adds. "A number of people moved there from The Greens because they were Dh40,000 cheaper but as demand has risen so too have the prices."

However, Great Properties' Kilzi, on the other hand, is still advising people to hold off if they are not in a rush to move because she thinks the market is yet to bottom out.

"A lot of people are expected to leave in the coming months so those who are staying are waiting to see what will happen in July. If they see an apartment for Dh70,000 now some are waiting in the hope they can find a place for Dh50,000. I think prices will drop further because the market is always about supply and demand and at the moment supply is outstripping demand."

For those still looking to move, negotiation will be the key as many landlords are more receptive to offers as they realise dropping the price by Dh5,000 or Dh10,000 make better financial sense than having it stay on the market for longer.

Liz O'Connor, Director of Residential Sales and Leasing at Better Homes says: "We have seen the number of transactions rise from the beginning of the year. However, there are still plenty of negotiations taking place."

With the housing shift set to continue over the summer, realtors expect the pressure to ease in areas near the beach, which have always been popular with families.

"It is very hard to get hold of stock in Jumeirah so if some sharers decide to move out, it may force the lease holder to give the villa up," says Morrison, adding that house hunters need to be careful.

"We have landlords who say their villa is unique so ask us why they should take less and that's true. They won't be bullied."

But whether people choose to take the plunge and sign a lease now or wait until the end of the school year, they are still sure to get much more for their money than this time last year. 

Even better deals can be had if a landlord has owned the property for a couple of years because their mortgage payments will be far less than those who bought during the boom, meaning they may be more willing to accept a lower offer for the sake of making a sale.

"With rents drastically dropping, it is great; it's now affordable for more people to consider leasing a new apartment," says Leah James, Manager of Residential Sales and Leasing for Better Homes.


Time to upgrade

Expats moving into an apartment by themselves is not the only trend to emerge from the lower rents; others are using it as an opportunity to get more for their money or move to a better area.

Liz O'Connor, Director of Residential Sales and Leasing at Better Homes says: "The market has become more affordable to many, which has given some tenants the opportunity to upgrade their living conditions, whether it be from emirate to emirate i.e. Sharjah to Dubai, the number of bedrooms i.e. one bedroom to two or property type i.e. apartment to villa."

William Diack is one such person. Following the birth of his son Harvey last month, William and his wife Nicola (pictured) decided to move from International City to the Arabian Ranches.

"With an addition to the family we needed more space, cleaner air and a garden. When we arrived in Dubai we shared a villa in the Ranches and enjoyed the area," he said. 

"Due to the rent hikes two years ago we decided to move to somewhere affordable while considering saving a deposit to buy in Dubai. But due to market uncertainty we made the decision to continue to rent and were fortunate that prices dropped considerably." 

Other agents have reported clients moving from Jumeirah Beach Residence where families were paying Dh140,000 for a one-bed to a two-bed villa in The Springs for Dh30,000 less. 

"Many people are taking advantage of being able to get more for their budget and upgrading to a villa with private garden as opposed to staying in an apartment," says Morrison.

Despite paying 15 per cent more, Diack has no regrets about his move. "This time last year we would have had to pay more by closer to 80 per cent. Since moving, International City seems a distant memory. We are very happy to back in the Ranches and looking forward to using the garden in the months to come."


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai property transactions top Dh1.79b 
Staff Report
Published: May 28, 2009, 23:14


Dubai: The total value of land transactions in Dubai last week reached Dh1.79 billion, of which sales exceeded Dh1.14 billion. 

The total value of mortgages during the period was Dh655.91 million, according to the Land Department.

A total of 90 sale transactions were registered with the Department by the end of the week, the most valuable of which was a plot in Jebel Ali that was sold for Dh29.88 million. 

The next two most prominent sales saw a second plot in Jebel Ali acquired for Dh28.80 million and another in Jebel Ali for Dh24.75 million.

The Emirates Hills-2 area was the most active in terms of the week's sales, with some 22 transactions. Emirates Hills-3 followed it with 10 sales. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


During the period, Emirates Hills-2 recorded the highest turnover by value, at Dh88.89 million, followed by the Jebel Ali area, Dh83.45 million, and Palm Jumeirah area, Dh71.37 million.

The biggest area sold was the 72,418-square-foot plot in the Al Barsha South-3 area, which went for Dh19.01 million. 

A 43,614-square-foot plot in the Emirates Hills-3 area was acquired for Dh7.07 million, while 43,614-square-foot area in Emirates Hills-3 was disposed of for Dh8.72 million.

During the period under review 63 mortgages worth Dh433.53 million were registered. 

Villas in freehold areas witnessed the registration of 533 sales transactions out of which 481 were for apartments for a total of Dh397.32 million and 52 for villas at a total of Dh88.58 million.


----------



## tehsin123

Wannaberich said:


> So anyone who brought off-plan basically deserves to get screwed?
> 
> The problem isnt ignorant investors,its trusting investors who had no reason to believe the developer they had gone with was a crook.


No reason to believe? 
I understand that there was no history of such market in this reason so you couldn't anticipate. But in absence of such history then you look at the other signs which may give you some sense of security. Those signs are individual rights, legal infrastrucutre, permanent population base, media and other transperancy. I think all were missing from this region. If someone still decides to jump in, I'd call it a gamble or speculation. Then expect anything when you are speculating without rational grounds.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> I disagree. The lesson of history, including the 1930s US Depression and the current financial downturn, is that capitalism requires confidence in the system. We all believed that the Dubai government had the wit and intent to ensure that developers promoting projects in the Emirate would be held to account if they didn't deliver as promised; we've since discovered that the legal system is largely dysfunctional and the government makes up ambiguous, contradictory and retroactive laws as it goes along.
> 
> The lack of new off-plan sales, even at much realigned pricing, is proof of the fact that international capital no longer trusts Dubai. In my view the solution lays with the government, not individual developers.


Totally agree.
My only defence of the goverment and some developers is that they were all caught out,like the rest of the world,by the biggest financial crisis since the great depression.


----------



## Mistermark

noir-dresses said:


> International capital has dried up every where in the world, and you cant say it does'nt trust dubai because of one, or a few projects. For god sakes you have scams, screw ups every where.
> 
> There are hundreds of projects on hold, or even holes in the ground in the whole world at this moment.
> 
> Realestate prices have dropped everywhere, aswell as over supply that cant sell at all in the whole world that is.
> 
> It's a problem with liquidity, banks dont even lend other banks money either because they dont have enough cash, or they dont trust other banks not knowing if they have toxic assets.
> 
> Governments are even bailing out world banks, airlines, auto industry, insurance companys, etc, etc around the world.
> 
> Get a grip on things guys, its a WORLD ECONOMIC VERY BIG SLOW DOWN, and Dubai is just a drop in the bucket compared to the real problems in the world. Westerners are losing jobs the population of Dubai every month, if not more, Germany just last week had its biggest contraction of almost 5 percent, the States in the shitter, EU is hurting, and so on, and so on !!!!!
> 
> The UAE is in very good shape compared to other places, and they will get out of this sooner, and easier with there resources.


I agree that most countries are suffering an economic downturn and many are impacted by liquidity problems. However I do think Dubai is worse affected than most because there are exceptional circumstances relating to the country's liquidity because of its over-reliance on certain sectors of the economy (especially property), the number of companies part- or wholly state-owned and their indebtedness. 

Combine this with the fact that many individuals (property buyers and ex-pat workers) and companies (mainly contractors and suppliers to the construction industry) have seen Dubai-based companies, many linked to the state, default on their obligations, and have found the legal system unable to help them, and you have a uniquely toxic mix.


----------



## UK_TO_DUBAI

noir-dresses said:


> International capital has dried up every where in the world, and you cant say it does'nt trust dubai because of one, or a few projects. For god sakes you have scams, screw ups every where.
> 
> There are hundreds of projects on hold, or even holes in the ground in the whole world at this moment.
> 
> Realestate prices have dropped everywhere, aswell as over supply that cant sell at all in the whole world that is.
> 
> It's a problem with liquidity, banks dont even lend other banks money either because they dont have enough cash, or they dont trust other banks not knowing if they have toxic assets.
> 
> Governments are even bailing out world banks, airlines, auto industry, insurance companys, etc, etc around the world.
> 
> Get a grip on things guys, its a WORLD ECONOMIC VERY BIG SLOW DOWN, and Dubai is just a drop in the bucket compared to the real problems in the world. Westerners are losing jobs the population of Dubai every month, if not more, Germany just last week had its biggest contraction of almost 5 percent, the States in the shitter, EU is hurting, and so on, and so on !!!!!
> 
> The UAE is in very good shape compared to other places, and they will get out of this sooner, and easier with there resources.


i 100% agree with you.....i live in london and the situation in UK is just unbeleivable.....everyday hundreds of people are loosing their jobs....Unemployment figure is highest and it will be about 3 million by end of 2009..Crime rate is going higher and higher in most european country.....compare to all that Dubai is quite amazing and comfortable for everyone.....i.e most of my family moved to Dubai from UK and ITALY...and they just luv it


----------



## Wannaberich

UK house prices rise 1.2% in April.The second rise in 3 months:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...Dont-get-too-excited-by-house-price-rise.html


'The good news is, as well as showing house prices rose instead of fell, the May index came in much stronger than expected, and showed the biggest monthly rise on the Nationwide measure since late 2006. The bad news is the trend is unlikely to persist as the market bumps along the bottom: further house price falls are likely in the coming months. 

Nationwide itself points out that during the early 1990’s recession, “there were many months during which prices rose, only to fall back down again in subsequent periods'

In contrast US prices fell 2.2% in March.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai reduces business fees to stimulate economy
Friday, 29 May 2009 
The Dubai government is to reduce business licensing fees by up to 30 percent and freeze other government charges in a bid to stimulate economic activity, the state news agency said.

WAM said late on Thursday Dubai ruler and UAE vice president Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid issued the decree to strengthen "continued government support for the investment environment".

"This includes fees levied by the government for administrative or economic services even if the costs of these services are higher than the market rate," it said.

"The government departments will also strive to provide all facilities to those who pay the fees, by way of receiving some of those fees on instalments."

Fees will be cut by 20 to 30 percent for a range of activities including trade and professional licences, property ownership certificates, termination of tenancy contracts for ownership, transferring buildings into hotels or serviced apartments and other alterations to commercial buildings.

Dubai's economy has been hit badly by the global downturn, with many construction projects held up. The emirate of the United Arab Emirates has outstanding debt of around $80 billion. (Reuters) 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/557108-dubai-reduces-business-fees-to-stimulate-economy


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## noir-dresses

Deyyar in Financing Tie-up with 5 UAE Banks 
Abdul Basit 


31 May 2009 
DUBAI - Deyaar Development, a Dubai-based real estate company, has partnered with leading UAE banks to offer competitive financing options to its customers. 

Five banks will provide flexible schemes for Deyaar projects offering up to 90 per cent financing and repayment periods of up to 25 years, the company said in a statement on Saturday.

Deyaar said that the banks offering facilities exclusively to Deyaar customers are Noor Islamic Bank, Dubai Islamic Bank, Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank, RAK Bank and Emirates Islamic Bank. 

While the exact terms and conditions of the financing will vary according to the projects and the specific financing requirements, the banks will offer over 80 per cent financing, predominantly on Deyaar’s finished products. 

Deyaar said in February that it would put at least a quarter of projects on hold and offer customers more flexible payment options as the financial crisis hit the UAE’s property sector.

Deyaar sees Dubai real estate sector bottoming out in the second half but will shift its focus from the UAE to emerging markets next year, and is mulling a MENA-wide property fund, its chief executive officer Markus Giebel said.

“We think the bottom will be reached in one year, faster than in any other crisis. The reason for this acceleration is government intervention,” Giebel told Arabian Business on May 16 at the World Economic Forum in Jordan.

“Today’s announcement bears testimony to Deyaar’s solid financial performance and strong fundamentals and reinforces its status as a leader in customer care and innovation,” Giebel said in the statement. 

Dubai Islamic Bank is providing up to 90 per cent financing for UAE nationals, while expatriates wishing to purchase a property from Deyaar can avail up to 80 per cent financing. Noor Islamic Bank is offering up to 85 per cent financing for UAE nationals and up to 80 per cent for expatriates. ADCB will provide up to 80 per cent finance on all Deyaar projects, and RAK Bank has agreed to provide up to 80 per cent finance on select properties developed by Deyaar.


----------



## noir-dresses

Gulf Arabs Look East after  EU Trade Deal Hits Hurdle 
(Reuters)


31 May 2009 
MUSCAT - Gulf Arab oil producers are expected to sign trade pacts with China, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand starting this year after talks with the European Union for a similar deal hit a wall, an Omani official said. 

The Gulf Cooperation Council — an economic and political bloc of six nations — suspended talks with the EU late in 2008 after a disagreement on human rights and democracy derailed two decades of negotiations. 

The alliance that includes world top oil exporter Saudi Arabia, the largest Arab economy and a member of the G-20, is now looking at EU’s rivals in the east, Abdulmalik Al Hinai, undersecretary for economic affairs at Oman’s Ministry of National Economy, told Reuters in an interview. 

“This week or next week we will start a new round of negotiations with China,” Hinai said on the sidelines of a meeting of GCC finance ministers. 

“We have already finished the fifth round of talks with New Zealand and we are at a very advanced stage ... After one more round before the end of the year we should be ready to sign.” 

Oman is chairing the GCC this year. The bloc signed a free trade agreement with Singapore in 2008. 

Australian and Gulf negotiators will also be at a meeting in the Omani capital Muscat on Sunday, Hinai said, adding that he expects progress in the talks. 

“These two countries as well as (South) Korea, I am expecting we will be finished in the near future,” Hinai said, referring to Australia and New Zealand. One hurdle facing agreements with Australia and South Korea is that their key exports to the GCC are cars, subject to import levies of 5 per cent in GCC countries that exporters from countries including Australia and South Korea want abolished.


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## jagmp

can this be true?


AED 27,000 p.a. 
JLT - SABA 3 - 2 BR, furnished, Floor 27, AED 27K. BEST BRANDS WORLD REAL ESTATE (BB WORLD) - Buy, Rent & Sell. Call us on: +9714-3214006 | Fax: +9714-3213277. We speak in Russian: +97150-3869738. Email: [email protected] | Website: www.bbworlduae.com

Location: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Dubai
Property type: For Rent - Flats
Number of bedrooms: 2
Email: [email protected] 

Contact: +9714-3214006, +97150-3869738, +9714-3213277


----------



## AltinD

Absolutely NO!


----------



## Cayman

^^
Amen!


----------



## IISinbadII

jagmp said:


> can this be true?
> 
> 
> AED 27,000 p.a.
> JLT - SABA 3 - 2 BR, furnished, Floor 27, AED 27K. BEST BRANDS WORLD REAL ESTATE (BB WORLD) - Buy, Rent & Sell. Call us on: . We speak in Russian:
> 
> Location: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Dubai
> Property type: For Rent - Flats
> Number of bedrooms: 2


27k wont even cover service charges and furnishing costs.


----------



## V Kapoor

Or could it be 27k per month??

A little too much if it is so.....


----------



## docc

^^ Maybe he/she meant 1,27,000 p.a?


----------



## Pleth

UK_TO_DUBAI said:


> i 100% agree with you.....i live in london and the situation in UK is just unbeleivable.....everyday hundreds of people are loosing their jobs....Unemployment figure is highest and it will be about 3 million by end of 2009..Crime rate is going higher and higher in most european country.....compare to all that Dubai is quite amazing and comfortable for everyone.....i.e most of my family moved to Dubai from UK and ITALY...and they just luv it


Things are really not too bad here in Dubai, the industry is doing well, but you can feel the lack of turists.


----------



## DXBQuantum

International City is not even at 27k AED lol...


----------



## Wannaberich

AltinD said:


> ^^ Why would they pay that much for a studio in Marina when for the same money they can rent a 2 bedroom apartment in a less prestigious area?


I wasnt talking about studios in the marina in particular.I meant studios in general around Dubai.
The point is for many workers who were paying 30/40k for shared accomodation,they can now have their own studio/1 bed for that price which wasnt the case this time last year.
My point was I believe studios and 1 beds will still be hugely popular.

On the whole I cant see why any type of property in Dubai should be less popular with the decrease in rental charges.
All that will happen is that some of those currently living in studios will move up to 1 beds,those in 1 beds may go to 2,those in 2 may go to 3 or maybe go straight to a villa.Those studios at the bottom of the list vacated by tenants moving up will have plenty of low paid workers to take over.That includes many workers from places like Sharjah etc.
You also have to take into account these cheaper rents will also attract new residents from abroad.Residents who will occupy all different types of property.


----------



## Wannaberich

Pleth said:


> Things are really not too bad here in Dubai, the industry is doing well, but you can feel the lack of turists.


How many people want to go to Dubai at this time of year.
Come October/November with the worlds economies hopefully well on track for recovery,plus better weather,hopefully tourist numbers will shoot up.


----------



## googly

IISinbadII said:


> There are no tenants esp. for 1 brs.
> If you are lucky one or two may come, but complain about the view. Or just say they have to look at other apartments before making a decision. In the end, nothing.


Thats not true. There are tenants out there looking for 1 br in the marina. Unfortunately, just like many landlords were looking for a good deal last year, these tenants are looking for a good deal now (and are getting it too!). My real estate agent says he can rent out my apartment (1022 sq ft with good view of the marina) within a week if I lower my rent from 130K to 110K. 

But I wont do that because I would rather keep it empty than get very low rent; afterall I paid 21K in maint. charges to EMAAR. Hopefully things will improve in the next few months.


----------



## docc

^^ Every month you wait, you lose rent! Assuming you want to rent it out at 130k/year (11k/month roughly), every month you waste waiting for that price, you're losing on rent! So you wait 2 months (minus 22k) and you're pretty much back to what you're agent said is the right price i.e 110k!


----------



## googly

docc said:


> ^^ Every month you wait, you lose rent! Assuming you want to rent it out at 130k/year (11k/month roughly), every month you waste waiting for that price, you're losing on rent! So you wait 2 months (minus 22k) and you're pretty much back to what you're agent said is the right price i.e 110k!


True. But I intend to go to Dubai in the summer and can use the apartment. Plus, its two months less of hassles (and wear and tear) with the tenant. If things pick up after 2 months, and I end up renting at 130K, it would even things out. Furthermore, next year my tenant would not demand that I keep the rent at 110K. 

BTW, when landlords think like you just did, it forces prices down in a never ending price cycle. Someone has to say enough is enough. :lol:


----------



## rexdmx

^^ so you realistically think that things would pick up after two months...?


----------



## googly

rexdmx said:


> ^^ so you realistically think that things would pick up after two months...?


No, but here's to hoping....cheers!:cheers:


----------



## Imre

Press release 
For immediate release 31 May 2009

*Speculators now dragging the market down says expert*

*Speculators are now responsible for driving property prices below their ‘real’ values as investors pounce on distressed sales *

A UAE-based real estate expert says that the UAE real estate market is still suffering from the antics of speculators flipping properties, amateur landlords and sadly those end users unable to meet their mortgage commitments due to unemployment. 

According to Mohammed Nimer, CEO of mid market property development company MAG Group Properties which is involved in AED3 billion worth of projects in the UAE, “Speculators were originally responsible for driving property prices to unrealistic levels. Now although they are on the receiving end of the slump in prices, they are still blighting the real estate landscape by panic selling and undercutting the fair market price.”

Nimer admits this is good news for those wishing to buy property and the real value of a property is simply what somebody is willing to pay for it, but he cites the wider implications. “It makes banks reluctant to lend because prices are still falling and it is difficult for them to ‘feel the bottom’. That’s why we are experiencing loan-to-value (LTV) ratios of 75% - they are calculating the risk,” said Nimer.

On the other side of the coin, Nimer believes that falling prices then unnerve professional and institutional investors for the same reason, which in turn starves developers of funds. 

“It’s a vicious cycle,” admits Nimer, “Forget the benefit of lower construction prices we have to wait until these distressed sales are pushed out of the system. Only then we will witness some stability and a return to fundamentals instead of sentiment based on fear and uncertainty.”

In the meantime Nimer welcomed initiatives by some developers and investment groups that are taking the rent-to-buy route to keeping the house sale option open to those that might otherwise lack the confidence or means to commit to home ownership at the moment.

And he also praised Dubai Government’s moves to guarantee job security for all government employees and to extend the work visa expiry period so that redundant expats have more time to try and find work.

“These initiatives will all contribute positively in some way to stabilising the market, “he said.

Overall Nimer did feel optimistic about the mid to long term prospects for the UAE real estate industry. “Although property prices fell dramatically in the last quarter of 2008 and the first quarter of 2009, the rate of decline has now slowed considerably, indicating that the market could be approaching the bottom.”

In addition, with years of massive budget surpluses, substantial Sovereign Wealth Funds (SWF) and oil recently breaching $60 per barrel, Nimer was confident that the UAE Government had the means and the desire to fund major infrastructure projects.

“With government support the UAE will overcome this challenge, but the private sector has to take responsibility for its own actions. Speculators brought us into this situation and unfortunately it looks like we are still waiting for them to finally exit the market. What is of primary importance is that we limit the damage they have done, learn from our mistakes and take responsibility for our own actions,” stated Nimer.


----------



## Richard Head

googly said:


> I would rather keep it empty than get very low rent; afterall I paid 21K in maint. charges to EMAAR.


I think you have a logic malfunction. You still paid the 21k if it stays empty. If you rent it at 110k you have 89k in hand. If you don't you have -21k in hand. The difference is still 110k. If your service charge was a million Dirhams you would still be 110k better off by renting it than not.


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## IISinbadII

googly said:


> Thats not true. There are tenants out there looking for 1 br in the marina. Unfortunately, just like many landlords were looking for a good deal last year, these tenants are looking for a good deal now (and are getting it too!). My real estate agent says he can rent out my apartment (1022 sq ft with good view of the marina) within a week if I lower my rent from 130K to 110K.
> 
> But I wont do that because I would rather keep it empty than get very low rent; afterall I paid 21K in maint. charges to EMAAR. Hopefully things will improve in the next few months.


110k for 1br is a very good price in this environment. In fact, you would be lucky to get that much. I agree with others, keeping the price up in the hope that things would pick up after 2 months is a mistake. If you wait a little longer it could dip well below 100k. It could take 2 years (or more) and not 2 months for things to turn around.....IMO.


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## dirtyharry1

110K for a 1bed would be still good. Keep in mind that many companies are reducing their house allowances dramatically in order to save costs. 

110K = 22000 EURO = 1833 EURO per month! That is still 3 times more than the average rent in Germany in a mid size town, but there the quality is much better however you don't have a pool there (ok, you couldn't use it there as often as you can use it here)


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## agod

googly said:


> True. But I intend to go to Dubai in the summer and can use the apartment. Plus, its two months less of hassles (and wear and tear) with the tenant. If things pick up after 2 months, and I end up renting at 130K, it would even things out. Furthermore, next year my tenant would not demand that I keep the rent at 110K.
> 
> BTW, when landlords think like you just did, it forces prices down in a never ending price cycle. Someone has to say enough is enough. :lol:



I am with you on this one, if 10000 of us said no, our bottom is 130 a year then you would turn the market, and they would have to pay that price.

I see the other logic any money is better than no money point of view, but that's desperation, and will only cause rents to fall further.

I am in the Florida vacation villa business, and its been happening there over the last couple of years, to many homes offering ridiculous rates, just to pay the mortgage, they are the homes that fail first, keep your prices up to cover your costs and you will survive.

Alan


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## tehsin123

agod said:


> I am with you on this one, if 10000 of us said no, our bottom is 130 a year then you would turn the market, and they would have to pay that price.
> 
> I see the other logic any money is better than no money point of view, but that's desperation, and will only cause rents to fall further.
> 
> I am in the Florida vacation villa business, and its been happening there over the last couple of years, to many homes offering ridiculous rates, just to pay the mortgage, they are the homes that fail first, keep your prices up to cover your costs and you will survive.
> 
> Alan


Theoretically it is possible but practically almost impossible. There is no cartel/group where owners can get together and decide their plan of action. Even, in an ideal world, if they do, each one of them has different circumstances. Someone needs money urgently no matter what (else default and go to jail), or for personal purposes, priorities will be more on those rather than keeping the market above water. 
Such cartel was there during late 90s when Dubai housing was much oversupplied and about 50,000 apartments were empty at once stage for over 8-10 months. Rents didn't come down, because the number of landlords were very few who could control the market. Today almost every other person is a landlord with varying circumstances.


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## noir-dresses

Emaar leaps, driving Dubai bourse higher 


(EB FILE) 




By 

Reuters on Sunday, May 31, 2009 



Emaar Properties leapt 10.2 per cent to nudge the Dubai index to its largest one-day gain in 14 weeks after HSBC issued a bullish report on the United Arab Emirates' real estate sector.


The index closed at a 23-week high.


HSBC gave Emaar an overweight rating, with a price target of Dh8.5. It closed on Sunday at Dh3.47.


The report also said the UAE's property sector was bottoming out, with agreed prices rising in April and May.


Dubai's benchmark climbed 4.8 per cent to 1,878 points, its highest close since December 18. Sunday's trading volume of 1.2 billion shares was the largest for at least 11 months.


Abu Dhabi's index also advanced, rising 0.8 per cent to 2,679 points as property stocks also led gainers.


Aldar Properties climbed 7.4 per cent to Dh4.23. HSBC gave the stock an overweight rating and a price target of Dh6.4.


Sorouh Real Estate, which was also overweight in HSBC's report, added 5.3 per cent.


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## Ramin777

noir-dresses said:


> Emaar leaps, driving Dubai bourse higher
> 
> 
> (EB FILE)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By
> 
> Reuters on Sunday, May 31, 2009
> 
> 
> 
> Emaar Properties leapt 10.2 per cent to nudge the Dubai index to its largest one-day gain in 14 weeks after HSBC issued a bullish report on the United Arab Emirates' real estate sector.
> 
> 
> The index closed at a 23-week high.
> 
> 
> HSBC gave Emaar an overweight rating, with a price target of Dh8.5. It closed on Sunday at Dh3.47.
> 
> 
> The report also said the UAE's property sector was bottoming out, with agreed prices rising in April and May.
> 
> 
> Dubai's benchmark climbed 4.8 per cent to 1,878 points, its highest close since December 18. Sunday's trading volume of 1.2 billion shares was the largest for at least 11 months.
> 
> 
> Abu Dhabi's index also advanced, rising 0.8 per cent to 2,679 points as property stocks also led gainers.
> 
> 
> Aldar Properties climbed 7.4 per cent to Dh4.23. HSBC gave the stock an overweight rating and a price target of Dh6.4.
> 
> 
> Sorouh Real Estate, which was also overweight in HSBC's report, added 5.3 per cent.


At last some factual good news. 
I am keeping my fingers crossed for a better 2H of the year.


----------



## Imre

*DMCC and Nakheel merge property interests*

Angela Giuffrida and Sarmad Khan 

Last Updated: May 31. 2009 6:54PM UAE / May 31. 2009 2:54PM GMT 

The property arm of Dubai Multi Commodities Centre (DMCC) has been merged with Nakheel, one of the emirate’s largest property developers. The move is the latest sign of consolidation among Dubai’s property companies as they restructure their operations to cut costs.

“DMCC’s property-related operations have been integrated with Nakheel to better accommodate current market conditions and optimise resources and expertise,” said a company spokesman.

Both companies are owned by Dubai World, which is owned by the Dubai Government. A source close to the deal said Nakheel would now be involved in all projects being developed by DMCC. 

DMCC was set up to establish the emirate’s commodity market and provide infrastructure and facilities for commodities including gold and precious metals, diamonds and energy. Its main property project is Jumeirah Lake Towers, a community of office, residential and hotel towers. Nakheel was also involved during the early stages of development. 

Jumeirah Lake Towers, which will consist of 87 towers, is due for completion in 2011.
The partnership is the second to take place this year among property developers backed by the Dubai Government. In February, Dubai Holding merged the administrative and back-office functions of Dubai Properties, Sama Dubai and Mizin.
There will be more mergers as property companies “try to capture the little bit of synergies they have”, said Robert McKinnon, the head of research at Al Mal Capital, an investment bank in Dubai. With most property developers strapped for cash as banks restrict lending and homebuyers default on payments, the main benefit of consolidation would be to pool resources to enable firms which would otherwise be competitors to survive the downturn.

Nakheel says it has drawn money from the first half of the US$10 billion (Dh36.7bn) government bond, in part to pay contractors.
In February, Nakheel merged an array of its business units to form five entities as it prepared for the challenges ahead. 

“I don’t see much financial benefit in a lot of cases for the mergers that have been discussed,” said Mr McKinnon. “But with so many Dubai entities in the development game, it probably makes sense, from a control, quality and management standpoint, to shrink it down so that they’re not all competing with each other and there’s more co-operation and planning involved.”

Consolidation would also help developers cope with the shrinking number of projects. New project announcements in the UAE declined to Dh3.5 trillion last month compared with Dh4.8tn in April, according to a recent research note from Kuwait’s Global Investment House.

More than 50 per cent of the projects planned in the country have been postponed or cancelled since the start of the downturn, according to the property consultant Jones Lang LaSalle. 

Property prices in the first quarter of this year fell by more than 40 per cent compared with the previous quarter, according to Colliers International, a consultancy. However, HSBC said in a report yesterday that agreed sales prices rose 4 per cent in April and 5 per cent last month compared with the same months last year, which helped boost property stocks. 

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090531/BUSINESS/705319977/1005


----------



## Morten_Denmark

tehsin123 said:


> Theoretically it is possible but practically almost impossible. There is no cartel/group where owners can get together and decide their plan of action. Even, in an ideal world, if they do, each one of them has different circumstances. Someone needs money urgently no matter what (else default and go to jail), or for personal purposes, priorities will be more on those rather than keeping the market above water.
> Such cartel was there during late 90s when Dubai housing was much oversupplied and about 50,000 apartments were empty at once stage for over 8-10 months. Rents didn't come down, because the number of landlords were very few who could control the market. Today almost every other person is a landlord with varying circumstances.


Rents have started to level out because many landlords starts to refuse going much further down. There are still a large number of landlords left which can afford not to rent out and use the apartment for private holydays or just leave it empty. A lot of the properties are not morgaged.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*UAE property market starting to bottom out -HSBC*

** Prices rise 4 pct m-o-m in April and 5 pct in May*
* Prices down 23 pct from September peak

By Jason Benham

DUBAI, May 31 (Reuters) - The real estate market in the United Arab Emirates is beginning to bottom out as prices stabilise, but values could still fall further as more property comes onto the market, HSBC said in a report released on Sunday.

Agreed prices in the UAE rose 4 percent month-on-month in April and 5 percent in May, but were still 23 down from a peak hit in September 2008, the report said.

The once-booming real estate market in Dubai, one of the UAE's seven emirates, has been hit particularly hard by the global financial crisis, as prices tumble, developers cancel projects and jobs are slashed.

Any recovery in the country's property market would go some way to easing investors' concerns about the health of the second-largest economy in the Gulf Arab region.

But the extreme boom-bust characteristics of Dubai's property market, in particular, may keep some investors at bay until at least 2011. [ID:nLC30504]

"The distressed stock is gradually clearing due to renewed interest as well as some sellers re-pricing, pulling their properties off the market, or putting them up for lease," HSBC said.

"Sentiment seems to be improving and sellers are now less willing to negotiate."

Advertised prices in Dubai rose 3 percent month-on-month in April and fell 1 percent in May, while prices in Abu Dhabi were up 2 percent and 7 percent for both months respectively.

Liquidity was starting to return to the market as mortgage providers raised their loan-to-value ratios and eased credit conditions, the report said.

In addition, mortgage rates were coming down as EIBOR (Emirates Interbank Offered Rate) continued to edge lower, while deposit rates were also declining. Rental yields were also still attractive, the bank said, adding that volumes were "robust".

"Foreign investors also seem to be back in the market and the majority of transactions are being conducted in cash," it said.

But the bank warned volumes could fall with the approaching summer, and, with the school year coming to an end in June and more supply coming on the market, there could be renewed price weakness. 

Slumping demand would drag residential real estate prices in Dubai down between 50 and 60 percent this year from their 2008 peaks, Egyptian bank EFG-Hermes said earlier this month. The market is unlikely to recover before some time in 2011, it said. [ID:nLD853700]

HSBC said that while the long-term prospects for Abu Dhabi's Aldar Properties ALDR.AD remained "favourable", its preferred exposure was now Dubai's Emaar Properties EMAR.DU.

"Considering liquidity concerns are now subdued, improving property market fundamentals, and solid Q1 performance, we feel that Emaar's performance should be more in line with that of Aldar," the report said.

Average prices for apartments in Abu Dhabi have fallen by as much as 10 percent since the end of the first quarter, while villa prices have remained stable, property consultancy Landmark Advisory said in a separate report on Sunday

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbss...6720090531?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0


----------



## noir-dresses

GCC investors turn to currency trade as option for investment 


(EB FILE) 




By 

Mohammed Elsidafy on Monday, June 01, 2009 

GCC investors invest an estimated $45 billion (Dh165.26bn) in currency trading monthly and the UAE has a share of 30 per cent, or $13.5bn, according to a study.

The number of individual investors in the currency trading since the beginning of 2009 is expected to be 4,500 in the region, including 1,350 UAE nationals and UAE-based foreign investors, said Saber Daboussi, Chief Executive Officer at ACM Middle East and Asia, who conducted the study on currency trade.

"The currency trade market in the region is now witnessing growth as it is considered one of the few available options with good profits, especially with the presence of financial surpluses that were generated over the past five years," he said.

"The increase in the number of investors is attributed to the growing awareness of the importance of this kind of investment. In addition, there are fluctuations in currencies' value, which make good profits for investors."

Daboussi said the global financial crisis has a positive effect on the currency trade, as the investors found this market safe compared to other investments. He added the volume of GCC money invested in this market ranges between $1bn and $3bn a day and the total investment in the global currency trading is estimated at $150bn.

Sheriff Sanad, Head of Marketing, One Financial, said before the financial crisis, the investors mainly concentrated on properties, stocks and bonds. But now a big percentage of them headed to invest in other sectors, including oil, precious minerals and currencies.

It is because of investors' growing awareness and their wish to diversify investments, he added. "While there are good legislations regulating stock exchanges in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, the local market lacks the legislations related to currency trade," said Sanad.

Daboussi said majority of global firms involved in the currency trading are yet to open branches in the region. These firms are still dealing with the region's investors through their overseas offices and they are still unfamiliar with the GCC market and liquidity.

According to Daboussi, there is a limited number of local companies that are involved in the currency trade and they lack world-class experience and service. He expected the region, especially the UAE which has a number of clients and investments, to soon witness the opening of branches of global companies.

Daboussi said the UAE investments account for 30 per cent of the GCC total investments. This is attributed for many reasons, including big growth in the UAE and its role as a hub for investors from around the world.

"Although the stocks and properties in the region were impacted by the financial crisis, that had positive effects on the currency trade as the crisis pushed the investors to safer and more profitable investments. Some 50 per cent of people working in the currency trade have come from the stocks and property sectors," Daboussi said.

Sanad said political, economic and social factors influence the currency market. Decisions of central banks to reduce the rate of interest also lead to a drop in the currency rate of exchange. The outbreak of swine flu in Mexico led to a drop in tourism and air travel and this has led to a drop in the value of the country's currency.

Daboussi said factors that affect the equity and bond markets have largely the same effect on the currency market whether it is in the form of intervention from central banks to change the rates of interest or the performance of countries' economies.

He said the difference between the currency exchange and other investment markets is that it is easy to obtain information affecting the exchange of currencies as they are published at the same time. The information can be analysed, future trends concluded, and selling and buying decisions made, unlike the companies' financial statements or expectation of real estate prices, for instance, he said.

Both the analysts said the role of currency trading companies is focused on extending the best services to customers and dealing with the largest network of banks and financial institutions that provide the prices. 

They also focus on good execution inside the market without any delay that might lead to the loss by customers of opportunities to sell or buy. Also they organise courses for investors and supply them with information on factors of risk and the diversification of investments in world financial markets.

Sanad said that while Gulf investors lack the sufficient information and expertise to deal with the currency exchange market, they have big surpluses compared with other Middle East investors. 

The volume of total investments by Gulf businesswomen amount to some $350bn in all investment activities.

Daboussi said investor profits are linked to two factors – the first is the size of risk by each investor and the high flexibility of the currency market in terms of fluctuation and the ability to control the risk.

He also said the rate of profit in the currency market is higher than that in other markets according to the standard of average risk and the capital. There is a positive relation between rate of risk and profit made. Profit goes up whenever risk increases.

On the elements of safety available at the e-currency exchange market, Daboussi said the internet is "a very important part of our business and therefore we take the utmost measures to ensure the client is trading in the most secure environment with the highest protection for internet-based data exchange. 

"Our trading platforms are compliant with the highest standards in terms of security and reliability and feature SSL encryption, encrypted data feeds and secure transfer of information. Investors can take confidence from the fact that our propriety trading platform is developed in house and has received numerous global and regional awards for three years since 2007."

Daboussi said his company's e-platforms are totally protected against any piracy or theft of information. "They are fully advanced and linked with banks and liquidity financers through feeding encrypted information on ACM providers."

Daboussi said ACM intends to obtain a banking licence through its office in Switzerland. The licence is important in extending bigger trading products, expanding company activities and giving clients more confidence.

And on the future expectations of the currency trading and exchange market in the UAE and the Gulf, Daboussi and Sanad expressed optimism about the future of the market especially in the light of the increasing number of investors and growth in the volume of exchange. 

They expected the end of the year will witness a big leap.


FOREX 

The term "Forex" is short for "Foreign Exchange". It encompasses all trading activity in the currency market. Brokers play a very important role in currency trading and have largely been the reason behind the growth and popularity of currency trading. In the past, it was very expensive and required a substantial investment. Thus, only large institutions or high net worth individuals could participate in the currency markets through banks. Now, through the increased number of currency brokers offering enhanced online trading systems, more and more participants are able to participate in the currency markets at lower costs. Like any investment, there is a degree of risk in the Forex market therefore selecting the right broker is key. Forex is the largest currency trading market of the world with daily exchange of $1.9 trillion. Forex is done in pairs such as euro and dollar or dollar and yen.


----------



## noir-dresses

'UAE banks do not need further support' 


Central Bank will issue tough capital adequacy rules for banks by the end of this month. (ERIK ARAZAS) 




By 

Nadim Kawach on Monday, June 01, 2009 

The UAE banks do not need further support from the Central Bank and the government as there has been an improvement in their financial position in recent months, the Central Bank Governor said yesterday.

Sultan bin Nasser Al Suwaidi also announced the UAE would stick to the dollar peg and to its position not to join a monetary union to be launched by other members of the Gulf Co-operation Council (GCC).

Speaking to reporters, Suwaidi acknowledged that the Central Bank is about to enforce one of the toughest rules on capital adequacy for banks by the end of June but defended it as a measure to strengthen the banking sector. "If you ask me about the need for more support to the banks in the UAE, I would say the banks no longer need any support at this stage… the situation has largely improved," he told reporters at the Central Bank.

"As for complaints that we are enforcing tough capital adequacy rules, I know this and I would say yes… but we are a small economy so we have to be tough," he added, referring to a deadline for banks to boost their adequacy to 11 per cent at the end of June 2009 and 12 per cent at the end of June 2010.

"We don't have the same liquidity pools as they do in Europe or the United States and we are more straightforward in our banking system… we have a traditional banking sector in terms of taking money from depositors and lending it."

Asked how the new adequacy rules would benefit the UAE's 24 national banks and 28 foreign units, he said: "It will of course benefit the banking system as it will set it on a strong basis and will improve it for the future."

Speaking after the Central Bank signed an anti-laundering agreement with the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada, Suwaidi declined questions about this week's visit to the UAE by Saudi Arabia's Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al Faisal and whether it has to do with the UAE decision to pull out of the GCC monetary union. He said the trip is part of what he described as "fraternal" exchange of visits by the GCC heads of state and senior other officials.

But he added: "Regarding reports about a revision of the UAE position, these are details that I have not seen or heard of… but I said last week that we have withdrawn from the monetary union and are out of it at this point of time".

Suwaidi also renewed recent comments that the UAE would not end a three-decade peg between its currency and the US dollar. He said the increase in the US dollar is only a temporary phenomenon and that the greenback is the "currency of international trade, investment and tourism". "The dollar stands on a good base and it is not going to be replaced in the near future. As for speculative money betting on the dirham's appreciation, I cannot say it will stop. We do not control the minds of speculators. They can do what they want to do and we will do what we want to do."

Suwaidi also defended the Central Bank's policy of maintaining relatively low reserves, saying it is the case in other countries as well.

"Of course, in every country, central bank reserves are lower because they have to support the banking system's liquidity… but don't forget that these reserves also include a lot of other items."

He said liquidity in the UAE has improved and banks have resumed almost normal lending activity. "There is financing now but the banks could be now concentrating on new sectors in their lending operations."

The Central Bank Governor said the gap between deposits and loans had narrowed in the past few months and expected it to disappear in the near future.

Turning to laundering, Suwaidi said it is an international issue and that there have been some recent cases in the UAE.


----------



## noir-dresses

High interest rate offers push deposits up by Dh56 billion 


(EB FILE) 




By 

Nadim Kawach on Monday, June 01, 2009 

Higher interest rate offers boosted the combined deposits of the UAE's banks by nearly Dh56 billion in the first four months of 2009 while there was a slight increase in credits, the Central Bank said yesterday.

Assets also climbed by Dh40bn to allow the UAE to maintain its position as having the largest banking sector in the Arab World while their combined capital and reserves swelled to its highest ever level.

In its monthly banking indicators for April, the Central Bank said deposits hit an all-time high of Dh961.6bn at the end of April compared with around Dh905.7bn at the end of January, an increase of Dh55.9bn.

Loans and advances edged up to Dh997.7bn from Dh993.7bn to reflect a slowdown in domestic demand due to lower oil prices and a continued careful lending policy adopted by many banks because of the global financial turmoil.

The slow credit growth narrowed the loan-to-deposit ratio to around1.03 at the end of April from 1.09 at the end of January.

The figures showed an improvement in the liquidity situation in the country as the Central Bank resumed issuing certificates of deposits, which rebounded to around Dh42.3bn at the end of January from Dh32.7bn at the end of April. They had peaked at Dh185bn at the end of March 2008.

Letters of credit grew to around Dh111bn from Dh105.9bn while provisions for non-performing loans rose to Dh22.3bn from Dh20.4bn, indicating banks are maintaining their cautious attitude in lending.

The figures showed the recent government decision to pump funds into some banks has allied with other measures by banks to push up their capital and reserves to a record Dh196.9bn at the end of April from Dh177bn at the end of January, an increase of around Dh27bn.

"The capital of the banks will rise further this year as some banks have not yet converted Ministry of Finance cash injection into capital," a banker said.

The Central Bank report showed the collective assets of the country's 24 national banks and 28 foreign units swelled to a record high of Dh1,480.3bn at the end of April from Dh1.44 trillion at the end of January. The increase allowed the UAE to maintain its position as having the largest bank assets in the region after it overtook Saudi Arabia in 2007.

Despite the slow credit growth, national banks recorded a slight rise in net profits to around Dh5.41bn in the first quarter of 2009 compared with Dh5.40bn in the first quarter of 2008.

"The profits could have been much higher hadn't some banks boosted provisions for impaired assets," said Fadi Kiswani, an analyst at the Sharhan Securities. "Banks were able to make good profits in the first quarter of this year from their investments…lending is not their only activity."

The figures showed the combined capital adequacy of the UAE's 52 banks surged to 16.2 per cent at the end of March.


----------



## noir-dresses

Regional sovereign wealth funds target Dubai real estate investment 
By Rachna Uppal, Staff Reporter
Published: May 31, 2009, 23:05


Dubai: Regional sovereign wealth funds are "looking at Dubai today" as opportunities based on attractive valuations become more interesting, according to Dr Omar Bin Sulaiman, governor of the Dubai International Financial Centre. 

"I think you will see a big shift in sovereign wealth funds. A lot of them are actually looking at Dubai today... and believe it or not, one of the sectors they are looking at is real estate. 

"There are opportunities today for buyouts and to take advantage of the situation where they can come in on the real estate side or the infrastructure side," Bin Sulaiman said, addressing members of the Indian Business and Professionals Council in Dubai.

"So they will be doing that in the next few months, some have already started," he added. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The business network in Dubai - of which the Indian community forms a significant part - has raised concerns about the costs of doing business in an increasingly challenging environment. 

Members of the network said some respite in the form of reduced fees for certain transactions and a freeze on others will be welcomed. 

"For the first time since the global crisis, at the end of February, we started seeing deposits increase in banks, which is a very big indicator that will help resolve the challenges we have - the balance between deposits and loans. 

"This was a major challenge for the banks from a liquidity point of view. It will take some time, but I think the pressure is starting to decrease, since the end of February," Bin Sulaiman said.

Some signs are already pointing towards a slight recovery in banks' liquidity situation, and strengthening loan to deposit ratios. 

Regional equity markets were also up, led by Saudi Arabia's Tadawul. Investor confidence in the Dubai market is also climbing, with the Dubai Financial Market up 4.82 per cent yesterday.

"Dubai's infrastructure is almost mature. The metro is opening, [the] financial centre is there, the airports are operational, and this gives [us] a massive platform when things turn around," Bin Sulaiman said.

He urged business owners to focus on the endgame and position themselves to benefit once the economy rebounds. 

Economic ties between the UAE and India continue to strengthen. 

UAE exports to India have grown at a faster pace than overall growth in UAE exports, while imports from India reached $13.7 billion (Dh50.3 billion) by the third quarter of 2008.


----------



## noir-dresses

IBM Relocates Regional Headquarters to Dubai 
Issac John (KT Exclusive)


1 June 2009 
DUBAI - Global technology giant IBM has relocated to Dubai the regional headquarters for its business in Central and Eastern Europe, Middle East and Africa. 

IBM had previously based these operations in Zurich, Switzerland, but said that having its new hub in the UAE would enable it to shift skills and decision-making closer to the heart of an emerging marketplace of 100 countries.

The strategy behind the move was to focus on the developing and under-developed markets “that are very different from established markets in terms of growth and skills,” said Steve Cowley, general manager for Central and Eastern Europe, Middle East and Africa, known also as the Ceemea region.

“Customers in this territory are very ambitious and look for leading-edge skills. They really want to leap-frog in terms of technology. IBM decided it could no longer do work on a global scale from its US corporate headquarters and cater to their needs and realised it needed a dynamic and flexible organisation to cope with the dynamism of the growth markets. So we set up the Ceemea Growth Market Team in June 2008,” Cowley said.

Aside from the emirate’s advantageous location near the center of all these emerging markets, he said that IBM chose Dubai “because of the city’s ability to attract talented people. It’s a vibrant place to live and work.”

Cowley oversees 15,000 employees across the region, plus another 12,000 employees based in global delivery centres that serve customers around the world. In the overall Ceemea region, IBM plans to invest heavily in building data centres and software development centres. Within GCC countries, it plans further expansion in Abu Dhabi and Qatar.

Cowley told Khaleej Times that 18 per cent of IBM’s $100 billion revenue in 2008 came from growth markets that included Latin America and the Asia-Pacific region as well as Ceemea. Together they posted a 10 per cent revenue growth year on year and contributed 60 per cent of IBM’s world’s business growth today. IBM’s growth markets represented 17 per cent of its revenue in the first quarter 2009, he said. 

IBM is on track to deliver against its 2010 roadmap of $10 per share,  Cowley added. 

“We have repositioned from a predominantly hardware business to software. While, we continue to divest from hardware, we are keen to bring the most advanced skills by working closely with regional universities. 

IBM announced projects in January to advance research through cloud computing – the use of virtual servers — at Carnegie Mellon University in Qatar, Qatar University and Texas A&M University at Qatar.


----------



## noir-dresses

Cabinet Go-ahead for Emirates Development Bank 
Issac John 


1 June 2009 
DUBAI - The UAE Cabinet on Sunday approved a draft federal law for the establishment of Emirates Development Bank by merging Emirates Real Estate Bank and Emirates Industrial Bank into a single entity. 

The Cabinet decision endorsing the merger is expected to be followed by another crucial decision on the fate of two troubled Islamic mortgage firms Amlak and Tamweel: Whether to merge them with the new Emirates Development Bank or restructure them. The merger of Amlak and Tamweel into an $8 billion lender before incorporating the combined entity with Emirates Development Bank has been under review by a federal government committee since November. 

Last year, the government announced that it would merge the mortgage firms with the state-controlled Emirates Real Estate Bank and Emirates Industrial Bank to form Emirates Development Bank.

Two weeks ago, Shaikh Khaled Bin Zayed al Nahyan, chairman of Tamweel, said the government was considering a restructuring plan and that a decision on whether to merge the companies would follow.


----------



## noir-dresses

Schools Show Signs that Expat Exodus is Over: Sulaiman 
Bruce Stanley 


1 June 2009 
DUBAI - Enrollment at Dubai schools for South Asian children rose by 2 per cent in the academic year that began in April, evidence that the emirate’s expatriate population is stable—and a sign that the economy’s fundamentals are stronger than critics have claimed, a senior government official said on Sunday. 

Dr Omar bin Sulaiman, Governor of the Dubai International Financial Centre, noted the enrollment finding from a new study of Indian and Pakistani schools by the Dubai Knowledge and Human Development Authority. Indians and Pakistanis are the two biggest groups of foreigners in Dubai and are therefore a bellwether for overall trends in the emirate’s population and economic health. 

“Given that these communities represent a large portion of the Dubai expatriate population, this is another sign that, despite the empty talk of sceptics, there is a continuing flow of real data showing the stability of the expatriate population,” Dr bin Sulaiman said. 

“We are confident that similar results will be found in other expatriate schools with the start of their new academic year in the fall.” 

Dr bin Sulaiman, who also serves as Deputy Governor of the UAE Central Bank, made his comments to members of the Indian Business & Professional Council. His comments came a day after Hamad Buamim, director general of the Dubai Chamber of Commerce and Industry, mentioned Dabai’s “recent” population growth of 8 per cent. Neither bin Sulaiman nor Buamim gave further details. 

Both officials cited their respective statistics to counter recent reports, anecdotal evidence and rampant speculation about an exodus of foreigners from Dubai in recent months. In fact, many foreigners have left as a consequence of the economic slowdown and job losses, and investment bank EFG Hermes projected in March that Dubai’s population alone would tumble this year by 17 per cent. 

However, bin Sulaiman argued that the situation has started to stabilise and may even have reversed. 

Any significant shrinkage in Dubai’s population would have a severe impact on property values and retail sales. The property and retail sectors, in turn, are key contributors to Dubai’s gross domestic product, hence the  official concern.

Bin Sulaiman praised Indian businessmen in the UAE as integral to the country’s growth. “The development and success of the UAE and Dubai wouldn’t be what it is without the committed, dynamic and entrepreneurial contribution of the Indian community… ,” he told his audience. 

“In fact, some of Dubai’s biggest brands and commercial enterprises were founded by members of the Indian community in Dubai and have played an important role in contributing to the rise of Dubai as not just a regional, but also a global centre of trade, commerce, finance, education, healthcare, transportation and tourism.”


----------



## High Times

Are you on a one man PR crusade to promote Dubai and make everyone feel better or what ?

You can goggle as many news articles as you like telling us how Dubai is recovering from the train wreck and property prices are just about to double again.

Simple facts are. Dubai needs people. Lots of them, and they all must earn more than the price of a big mac in NY per day.

Still if it makes you feel better keep the good news stuff coming.


----------



## noir-dresses

OK Camp X-Ray


----------



## Wannaberich

Noir I think you're overdoing it with all the articles you're posting and ruining this thread.


----------



## worried1

*Noir is doing a fine job*



Wannaberich said:


> Noir I think you're overdoing it with all the articles you're posting and ruining this thread.


Wannaberich you will never be rich, just a wannabe if you dont like reading


----------



## austdec

*Thanks Noir*

I like information - I dont care if it is positive or negative. Thanks Noir for taking the time to post these articles. 

If people think we need more negative articles on Dubai, feel free to post them as well. But I dont think we should be attacking someone for taking the time to make this thread more informative :cheers:


----------



## gerald.d

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090531/BUSINESS/705319913/1058&template=columnists



> *A welcome note showing signs of upturn*
> 
> It was an investment bank research report that pricked the UAE property bubble last summer; perhaps now another analyst’s note will set in train the process of reflation across the crucial real estate sector.
> 
> As the UAE sizzled last August, Morgan Stanley produced an innocuous-seeming piece of research into the property sector, which forecast a 10 per cent dip in property prices for the rest of the year. The rest, as they say, is history. The equity market went into a tailspin as it found confirmation of long-held fears that real estate, the dynamo of the UAE, and especially Dubai, economies, was overpriced.
> 
> Although there were more significant dog days to come – notably the collapse of Lehman Brothers the following month – from that August day onwards the market knew that something was wrong in the UAE and a reckoning was looming.
> 
> Yesterday, we saw the first signs that we might be pulling out of the nosedive that ensued. HSBC, an international bank of at least equal stature to Morgan in terms of research capability, produced a report entitled Bottoming Out, which effectively calls the bottom of the property sector and offers the first tentative signs that the nightmare may be over.
> 
> The stock markets, dominated by property stocks, certainly thought so, with the Dubai Financial Market ending yesterday 4.8 per cent ahead at 1,878. Coincidentally, the HSBC note followed another bullish expression of confidence from the UAE Central Bank, which said UAE real estate was “fine”.
> 
> The HSBC research was a little more scientific than that. Based on a quantitative analysis of property transactions in April and May, it said that agreed prices were up 4 and 5 per cent respectively in those months. That is different, of course, from advertised prices, implying that vendors are willing to accept more realistic offers for their property, but it proves the normal forces of supply and demand are beginning to reassert themselves.
> 
> The damage the sector has suffered since the Morgan Stanley report is enormous. Morgan’s forecast of 10 per cent, which caused such a fuss at the time, turned out to be hugely conservative. HSBC estimates there has been a 65 per cent decline since last September. That is truly staggering, but if you accept we are now at the bottom, at least it is a “known”, rather than a frightening “unknown.” With such a fall, there must be value to be had, especially in Dubai.
> 
> There are other positive signs, according to HSBC. Liquidity is returning as mortgage lenders raise loan-to-value ratios and free up some credit; there is downward pressure on mortgage rates as regional money markets slowly thaw; deposit rates have fallen since the start of the year, making it less attractive to simply let cash sit in the bank; rental yields remain attractive, leading to robust volumes and improving sentiment.
> 
> Vendors have adapted to the new reality, HSBC says, by cutting prices and pulling excess supply off the market, or by renting them. Despite the renewed efforts of the mortgage lenders, cash is still king and foreigners are taking the first tentative steps back in to the market. Maybe all those Dubai scare stories in the foreign press were less effective than we thought at the time.
> 
> The main corporate beneficiary from the upturn, according to HSBC, will be much-maligned Emaar, which as Dubai’s leading developer was an obvious “sell” story when the deleveraging was raging. Now, HSBC puts a target price of Dh8.5 on the stock, compared with yesterday’s Dh3.47, which was up 10.2 per cent.
> 
> There are still significant threats to the improvement scenario. The most potentially serious is the dreaded “exodus” some Cassandras are predicting once the school year ends later this month. This is such a complicated variable – with conflicting evidence coming from indicators such as removals bookings, next year’s school enrolments and current opinion polls – that it is almost impossible to call. But it seems certain the long summer period, followed by Ramadan, will see some further volatility and price softness. Many will wait until September to jump back into the property market. And who knows what imponderables might arise from the wider geo-economic world?
> 
> But the HSBC report draws a rather different picture from the all-pervasive gloom-and-doom we have become accustomed to recently. As I have said before in this column, there are now plenty of sightings of “green shoots” in the UAE as well as the global economy. If the UAE property market really is on the turn, it represents a major blossoming for the regional flora.


So, beginning of a recovery, or bear trap?


----------



## iced

*no recovery*

ok a small monthly does not mean a recovery. the next few months are seasonally quiet. we need to see growth in the west which may start at the end of the year, weaker dollar and then dubai may start to recover especially if we have high oil prices. So no real evidence of a rise.

Am still in the camp that no recovery until next year and that rents are falling. The other thing is that i can now see an oversupply as some of these developments are completed. didnt place that much importance on this factor but now even these half constructed developments points to a lot of buildings and supply coming on in the next couple of years.


----------



## noir-dresses

Wannaberich said:


> Noir I think you're overdoing it with all the articles you're posting and ruining this thread.


whats wrong with taking some of the positive stulff out of the local papers like Gulfnews, Khaleejtimes, and Business 24-7 ??????

by the way its related to the topic, and informative


----------



## Wannaberich

noir-dresses said:


> whats wrong with taking some of the positive stulff out of the local papers like Gulfnews, Khaleejtimes, and Business 24-7 ??????
> 
> by the way its related to the topic, and informative


An article here and there is fine,10 in a row is a little too much bro.


----------



## 234sale

I think this is likely. Yes it is very generalised, but it's my opinion with 5 years UAE real estate experience as an investor.


----------



## 234sale

Wannaberich said:


> Noir I think you're overdoing it with all the articles you're posting and ruining this thread.


He is doing ok,, just really should post the link and just an extract. 
Papers such as GN get upset if you just ctrl-c, ctrl-v.


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> <snip>
> 
> I think this is likely. Yes it is very generalised, but it's my opinion with 5 years UAE real estate experience as a professional and also an investor.


The research talks about a 65% decline. Not a decline to 65%.

You might want to re-draw the graph!


----------



## FWIW

austdec said:


> I like information - I dont care if it is positive or negative. Thanks Noir for taking the time to post these articles.
> 
> If people think we need more negative articles on Dubai, feel free to post them as well. But I dont think we should be attacking someone for taking the time to make this thread more informative :cheers:


:applause:

+1

If you don't want to read them, then don't!


----------



## Old Town Lovin...

How about a correction in my interest rates? Anyone have a clue as to when we will have somewhat reasonable rates here? 

Has anyone re-financed to a lending institution back to the US / UK? Is that possible with my loans from ADCB / HSBC?


----------



## 234sale

gerald.d said:


> The research talks about a 65% decline. Not a decline to 65%.
> 
> You might want to re-draw the graph!


I am trying to show that the prices have reduced 40% from peak so far. They will reduce again if the supply issue isn't resolved with some kind of benefit of cash coming back in to real estate as an investment. It was supposed to be a quick sketch.


----------



## tehsin123

High Times said:


> Are you on a one man PR crusade to promote Dubai and make everyone feel better or what ?
> 
> You can goggle as many news articles as you like telling us how Dubai is recovering from the train wreck and property prices are just about to double again.
> 
> Simple facts are. Dubai needs people. Lots of them, and they all must earn more than the price of a big mac in NY per day.
> 
> Still if it makes you feel better keep the good news stuff coming.


You have hit the nail right on its head. Dubai needs people and those people should have enough disposable income (after rent and school fees) which they can spend. STOP. Most issues will be resolved. You know, property boom (high rents) is the main culprit of Dubai's downfall. So lets hope we will live in a normal country in a year's time. Remember the GN report a few weeks ago which said that expats spend about 60% on rent only.:bash:
While international average is about 22%. This has to get fixed or forget Dubai for long-term.


----------



## paul66

*New HSBC Report: Property market starts its comeback*

*New HSBC Report: Property market starts its comeback*

01/JUN/2009

Property prices in Dubai are bottoming out with initial signs of confidence returning to the market, new research said yesterday.

"Distressed stock is gradually clearing, with further signs of consolidation as volumes continue to pick up. Also, more recently, mortgage providers have moved to ease their requirements, raising loan-to-value (LTV) and relaxing credit norms, which we view as a further sign of some normalcy returning to the market," HSBC said in its "Property Ladder" report.

According to the bank, the May transaction survey suggests that the market is starting to bottom out, with agreed prices up four per cent and five per cent month-on-month (m-o-m) in April and May, respectively.

"On the ground market testing confirms that the distressed stock is gradually clearing due to renewed interest as well as some sellers repricing, pulling their properties off the market, or putting them up for lease. Sentiment seems to be improving and sellers are now less willing to negotiate. Anecdotal evidence also suggests that foreign investors seem to be back in the market and there are bulk buyers of property for investment purposes."

Besides, most of this year's transactions have been conducted in cash, but mortgage purchases are starting to pick up following the recent change in policy by lenders. Apparently, Standard Chartered and RAKBank are leading the way, the report said.

While agreed prices are now down 23 per cent from the September 2008 peak, "we believe that it is important to compare agreed prices to advertised prices in order to fully understand the extent of the downturn". According to the report, prices are down 65 per cent from the peak asking prices to the agreed prices.

David Lepper, Head of UAE Equity Research, HSBC Global Research, said: "Market data from April and May show a range of positive indicators: agreed property sale prices are rising, volumes are holding up well, and banks have loosened their lending criteria. However, we will not be able to discern a sustainable trend until later in 2009, and while we note these positive developments, the market as a whole is coming off a very low base, given the sharp declines since the market peak. Credit growth remains subdued, and the UAE economy still has challenges to deal with."

While apartment prices (which account for 85 per cent of transactions) have started to turn around, up nine per cent in May 2009, villa prices continue to come under pressure, down 11 per cent m-o-m. Villa agreed prices have now fallen 49 per cent since the September 2008 peak, compared to only 16 per cent for apartments.

The steeper decline in villa pricing is partly due to a sharper upturn last year, but is also a result of affordability, in light of lower mortgage LTV. "Transaction prices could be understated as buyers could potentially understate the value of their property in order to reduce registration fees. That said, however, the discrepancy is unlikely to be large, since properties with suspiciously low values are typically investigated by the regulator. This means that actual prices should be somewhere in between asking and agreed, which are now starting to converge," HSBC said.

However, there are still potential risks. With the summer approaching, volumes are likely to soften leading to short-term price volatility. The school year coming to an end in June, and more supply coming on the market could lead to renewed weakness.

According to the report, construction costs are likely to come down further although the building materials price index points to a 20 to 30 per cent price drop from the July 2008. "We believe that construction costs are likely to continue to trend downwards," HSBC said.

YIELD COMPRESSION

Yield compression is now apparent as rentals continue to slide (down 41 per cent year-to-date), while prices start to stabilise. Rental yields are down from seven per cent in March to 5.9 per cent in May. However, yields on asking prices are higher, upwards of 10 per cent in May.

Rental yields initially expanded, as prices were first to get hit by tightening credit conditions. Rentals, on the other hand, were only impacted after the first lay-offs. "Considering that rentals are a pure reflection of demand/supply dynamics, we believe they are likely to see further weakness as more stock comes on to the market."

According to HSBC, the May survey of advertised listings shows initial signs of stabilisation as transaction prices lead advertised aspirations. While down 18 per cent m-o-m in March, advertised prices in Dubai were up three per cent in April and down one per cent in May. The advertised data highlights no m-o-m change in apartment prices in May, but a three per cent m-o-m decline in villa prices.

Dubai advertised listings saw a gradual decline over the past two months despite more stock being delivered, falling 11 per cent from 5,782 in March to 5,173 in May.

"We believe this adds further credence to our analysis and shows that stock is clearing and/or listings are being pulled off the market. In any case, this is supportive of pricing. Also the shift in mix towards lease listings persisted in May 2009, increasing to 15 per cent, the highest level since we started our survey in September 2008."

ABU DHABI

Advertised prices in the capital are also showing signs of stabilisation, up two per cent and seven per cent, in April and May, respectively. Villa prices underperformed apartments, declining by four per cent m-o-m in May, while apartment prices rose eight per cent m-o-m. The bank believes this has to do more with lower affordability due to tightening liquidity than preference, said HSBC.

QUALITY UNITS IN FOCUS

In Abu Dhabi and Dubai, buyers and tenants are showing renewed willingness to pay for better units and better locations, a report by Landmark Advisory said yesterday. "Even if decline patterns differ between Dubai and Abu Dhabi, falling prices are creating opportunities that boost demand in both markets. In April, we observed strong leasing and higher sales volumes," said Jesse Downs, Director of Research & Advisory Services in the Q2-2009 real estate report on Abu Dhabi and Dubai.

"Since mortgage activity is low, cash buys constitute a significant portion of transactions. Therefore, to accurately assess price trends, it's critical to have access to data sets containing both transaction types. In Dubai, Emaar is faring best in terms of demand and pricing," she added. Downs said with a flight to quality clearly under way, end-user preferences are differentiating prices in favour of developers such as Emaar and preferred locations such as Dubai Marina. In the Q1 of 2009, Emaar master developments accounted for approximately two-thirds of sales and 57 per cent of new leases. "More specifically, units developed directly by Emaar represented over half of sales and 39 per cent of new rentals."

Dubai Marina was the most popular area among renters, capturing 30 per cent of all new annual leasing contracts. Emirates Living came in second, at 16 per cent.

As for Abu Dhabi, "the issue of first-phase master development integration will leave certain Abu Dhabi developers more vulnerable in the short to medium term," said Downs. Landmark Advisory's analysis shows a positive correlation between price performance and proximity to central Abu Dhabi.

source: http://www.tigerzilla.com/propertie...-uae-property-market-starts-its-comeback.html


----------



## inrainbows

*Offshore company property transfers*

Hi all,

We are thinking of transferring our properties to an offshore company (for asset protection/protection from sharia succession laws).

Would anyone on the forum recommend a particular method/company to go with? We looked at doing this with major banks in Dubai but it seems like the paper work requirements for every transaction are crazy (eg, getting copmany documents attested by UAE embassy in foreign jurisdiction, such as BVI etc, on every transaction). 

Does anyone here have actual experience doing transactions (eg: sale of a property) when property is in the name of an offshore company?

thanks.


----------



## 234sale

It is possible, the difficulty becomes when you wish to transfer property. It's not as easy as transfering ownership shares.

http://www.tamimi.com or http://www.toclegal.com/ are probably recognised as professional out-fit with some info on there homepages


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> I am trying to show that the prices have reduced 40% from peak so far. They will reduce again if the supply issue isn't resolved with some kind of benefit of cash coming back in to real estate as an investment. It was supposed to be a quick sketch.


Appreciate that, but the HSBC report is saying that prices have already dropped 65% from their peak.

(to clarify - transactions are being carried out at prices 65% below the peak asking price. I.e. if sometime last year at the peak someone was asking 1,000,000 dirhams for a property, that property has recently sold for 350,000.)


----------



## UK_TO_DUBAI

noir-dresses said:


> whats wrong with taking some of the positive stulff out of the local papers like Gulfnews, Khaleejtimes, and Business 24-7 ??????
> 
> by the way its related to the topic, and informative



Thanks Noir...Keep it up...i think you are doing excellent job...many people dont have time to look around many newspapers..

thanks for your time


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> UK house prices rise 1.2% in April.The second rise in 3 months:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...Dont-get-too-excited-by-house-price-rise.html
> 
> 
> 'The good news is, as well as showing house prices rose instead of fell, the May index came in much stronger than expected, and showed the biggest monthly rise on the Nationwide measure since late 2006. The bad news is the trend is unlikely to persist as the market bumps along the bottom: further house price falls are likely in the coming months.
> 
> Nationwide itself points out that during the early 1990’s recession, “there were many months during which prices rose, only to fall back down again in subsequent periods'
> 
> In contrast US prices fell 2.2% in March.


LONDON (Reuters) - House prices in England and Wales fell 16.2 percent on the year in April, the Land Registry said on Monday. The average house price in April stood at 152,898 pounds, *down 0.3 percent on the month*, the government agency said.
The Land Registry figures are based on sale completions and therefore lag surveys by mortgage lenders.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUKTRE5501WH20090601


----------



## 234sale

gerald.d said:


> Appreciate that, but the HSBC report is saying that prices have already dropped 65% from their peak.
> 
> (to clarify - transactions are being carried out at prices 65% below the peak asking price. I.e. if sometime last year at the peak someone was asking 1,000,000 dirhams for a property, that property has recently sold for 350,000.)


I was basing myself on the all the reports added together. Asking prices and selling prices are very different as you know. 

http://www.knightfrank.com/press/Knight-Frank-Global-House-Price-Index-Q1-2009-030.aspx 40% drop in actual prices. 

Are we looking at residential / commercial - finished / off plan, the lack of published data is still very annoying.


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


>


Here's my expectations based on equally factual information thats curently available in Dubai.


----------



## DXBQuantum

hahahhahaahah


----------



## HappyLarry

High Times said:


> Here's my expectations based on equally factual information thats curently available in Dubai.


At a guess, I think you are going through a rough period. Normally, you make contribution here that is far superior to most posters, including myself.
:cheers:


----------



## DXBQuantum

Hes only having some fun, i thought it was great


----------



## Imre

inrainbows said:


> Hi all,
> 
> We are thinking of transferring our properties to an offshore company (for asset protection/protection from sharia succession laws).
> 
> Would anyone on the forum recommend a particular method/company to go with? We looked at doing this with major banks in Dubai but it seems like the paper work requirements for every transaction are crazy (eg, getting copmany documents attested by UAE embassy in foreign jurisdiction, such as BVI etc, on every transaction).
> 
> Does anyone here have actual experience doing transactions (eg: sale of a property) when property is in the name of an offshore company?
> 
> thanks.


No need to go to any lawyer or company, that is just a waste of money.

You need all documents of your company in English or Arabic and after you can go to the developer and ask the changing of the contract. When we did some transactions ,they have never asked any fees for it but I heard some companies ask some money.

It was taken around 2 weeks so not a big issue.


If you get the new contract better to go to the court and make a power of attorney (POA) , the company gives a power for you, after you can do anything .

Still lot of people doing this because of the The Islamic Law Of Wills (Sharia Law ).


----------



## jagmp

what happens to the property after the death of the owner if there is no will in Dubai. is UK will valid in Dubai


----------



## Imre

jagmp said:


> what happens to the property after the death of the owner if there is no will in Dubai. is UK will valid in Dubai


*Inheritance Law in the UAE*

http://www.zu.ac.ae/library/html/UAEInfo/documents/UAEInheritanceLaw.pdf

*If I own the property in my own name, what happens to that property upon my death?*

When buying in Dubai, in the event if death, the property does not necessarily pass to the wife since the Sharia Law (the governing law of UAE) determines otherwise, as laid down in the Quran. In order to ensure the property passes on to those you wish, an offshore company can be established with the spouses as Directors. In the event of their demise the shares of company are passed on to the surviving spouse and beneficiaries. Although the spouse has died, the offshore company has not; thereby an internal transfer of shares circumvents this potential Sharia hiccup.

http://www.eyeofdubai.com/v1/articles/article_detail.asp?artid=408

*Expatriates who own property in the UAE should write a will, have it translated into Arabic and notarised at their embassy or consulate, so as to make sure the property is passed on or distributed as one wishes.* If a person dies ‘intestate’, which means the person dies without making a will, ‘inheritance shall be governed by the law of the country of the deceased at the time of death.’ This is according to the UAE Civil Code, Federal Law No.2 of 198, Article 17/1. This law was promulgated to stem confusion surrounding inheritance issues for expatriates. In the event that the deceased left no will and he was a Muslim, Shariah would apply and any debt would be first paid prior to any other disbursement of property. The UAE law of inheritance is based on Shariah Law which differs greatly to laws which many of us are used to and which places exacting restrictions on how we can request our assets be distributed when we die. Mohammad Marria, Estate Planner of Just-Wills, a United Kingdom-based company operating a franchise in Dubai (Jumeirah Lake Towers), says many people do not understand the possible implications if they die without this vital document. “Your will is the most important piece of paper you will ever sign,” he explains. “It is your last wishes on how you would like your estate to be distributed. And it’s not just about money and property. It is also about safeguarding the welfare of children. Without that document, things could get pretty nasty and messy.” A potential testator should list all of his or her assets and appoint an executor - a person who will make sure that all assets will be passed on to the rightful beneficiaries.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...keting/2008/november/marketing_november32.xml


----------



## smussuw

^^ The question is since when does the inheritance law apply on non muslims?


----------



## 234sale

HT, Agreed.


----------



## V Kapoor

Imre said:


> *Inheritance Law in the UAE*
> 
> http://www.zu.ac.ae/library/html/UAEInfo/documents/UAEInheritanceLaw.pdf
> 
> *If I own the property in my own name, what happens to that property upon my death?*
> 
> When buying in Dubai, in the event if death, the property does not necessarily pass to the wife since the Sharia Law (the governing law of UAE) determines otherwise, as laid down in the Quran. In order to ensure the property passes on to those you wish, an offshore company can be established with the spouses as Directors. In the event of their demise the shares of company are passed on to the surviving spouse and beneficiaries. Although the spouse has died, the offshore company has not; thereby an internal transfer of shares circumvents this potential Sharia hiccup.
> 
> http://www.eyeofdubai.com/v1/articles/article_detail.asp?artid=408
> 
> *Expatriates who own property in the UAE should write a will, have it translated into Arabic and notarised at their embassy or consulate, so as to make sure the property is passed on or distributed as one wishes.* If a person dies ‘intestate’, which means the person dies without making a will, ‘inheritance shall be governed by the law of the country of the deceased at the time of death.’ This is according to the UAE Civil Code, Federal Law No.2 of 198, Article 17/1. This law was promulgated to stem confusion surrounding inheritance issues for expatriates. In the event that the deceased left no will and he was a Muslim, Shariah would apply and any debt would be first paid prior to any other disbursement of property. The UAE law of inheritance is based on Shariah Law which differs greatly to laws which many of us are used to and which places exacting restrictions on how we can request our assets be distributed when we die. Mohammad Marria, Estate Planner of Just-Wills, a United Kingdom-based company operating a franchise in Dubai (Jumeirah Lake Towers), says many people do not understand the possible implications if they die without this vital document. “Your will is the most important piece of paper you will ever sign,” he explains. “It is your last wishes on how you would like your estate to be distributed. And it’s not just about money and property. It is also about safeguarding the welfare of children. Without that document, things could get pretty nasty and messy.” A potential testator should list all of his or her assets and appoint an executor - a person who will make sure that all assets will be passed on to the rightful beneficiaries.
> 
> http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...keting/2008/november/marketing_november32.xml



So do the highlighted (red) words suggest that these SHARIAH laws do not apply to inheritance of properties of non-muslim expats??


----------



## V Kapoor

234sale said:


> HT, Agreed.


Me too! Yes agreed!


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## FWIW

High Times said:


> Here's my expectations based on equally factual information thats curently available in Dubai.


:lol:

In the interests of balanced views, here is an article that is opposite of HT's fine chart. BTW I have no fixed view on what the Dubai Real Estate market is going to do!

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/06/01/56466/do-buy-dubai-and-saudi-too-merrill-says/


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## jagmp

let me phrase it again.i have assets in Dubai but no will in Dubai. i am a woman with husband and a child. how my assets will be distrubuted in absence of will as a non muslim.can my family members like brothers and sisters have a claim on it. if they are outside Dubai.

i have up to date will in UK.what happens if i suddenly die.my UK will be valid in Dubai. 

if i have to make a will in Dubai who do i leave with in Dubai. can i leave my UK will in Dubai or i have to make another one.


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## Freestyler

jagmp said:


> let me phrase it again.i have assets in Dubai but no will in Dubai. i am a woman with husband and a child. how my assets will be distrubuted in absence of will as a non muslim.
> 
> i have up to date will in UK.what happens if i suddenly die.my UK will be valid in Dubai.
> 
> if i have to make a will in Dubai who do i leave with in Dubai. can i leave my UK will in Dubai or i have to make another one.


Complicated questions. I would suggest ask a lawyer. Some newspapers have law section you can email them. And lawyer responding to you in a public media can't BS or somebody will correct him/her.


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## noir-dresses

UAE's path to recovery will be faster and signs are manifest 

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...6022009_de294b60edba42b392c7a026434447c5.aspx


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## TDemirel

Good Night

This is for sure irrelevant with Dubai Property Market, but it is a sign for global economy.
When you have time, please check the Baltic Dry Index. 
This Index defines sea freight rates.
It is a very good sign to show volume of global trade.
As you know approx. 85% of global trading is done by sea freight.
The peak of this index was 11.000 as of first quarter 2008 and bottomed last quarter 2008 @ 900. 
The bottoming of this index is the answer of, why you see this much of ships in the ports all around the world. Because they wait in achor to find a load to carry. There is no load because of no export, import.
The index is currently above 3500 points. 
Means, global trade is recovering.


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## Ramin777

TDemirel said:


> Good Night
> 
> This is for sure irrelevant with Dubai Property Market, but it is a sign for global economy.
> When you have time, please check the Baltic Dry Index.
> This Index defines sea freight rates.
> It is a very good sign to show volume of global trade.
> As you know approx. 85% of global trading is done by sea freight.
> The peak of this index was 11.000 as of first quarter 2008 and bottomed last quarter 2008 @ 900.
> The bottoming of this index is the answer of, why you see this much of ships in the ports all around the world. Because they wait in achor to find a load to carry. There is no load because of no export, import.
> The index is currently above 3500 points.
> Means, global trade is recovering.


Excellent post indeed.
I was waiting for some one to touch upon this issue. Though, we need to wait and see how sustainable the index recovery is. Another six-nine months would be a more accurate indicator.

More info from Wikipedia:

Most directly, the index measures the demand for shipping capacity versus the supply of dry bulk carriers. The demand for shipping varies with the amount of cargo that is being traded or moved in various markets (supply and demand).

The supply of cargo ships is generally both tight and inelastic — it takes two years to build a new ship, and ships are too expensive to take out of circulation the way airlines park unneeded jets in the Arizona desert. So marginal increases in demand can push the index higher quickly, and marginal demand decreases can cause the index to fall rapidly. e.g. "if you have 100 ships competing for 99 cargoes, rates go down, whereas if you've 99 ships competing for 100 cargoes, rates go up. in other words, small fleet changes and logistical matters can crash rates..."[6] The index indirectly measures global supply and demand for the commodities shipped aboard dry bulk carriers, such as building materials, coal, crude oil, metallic ores, and grains.

Because dry bulk primarily consists of materials that function as raw material inputs to the production of intermediate or finished goods, such as concrete, electricity, steel, and food, the index is also seen as an efficient economic indicator of future economic growth and production. The BDI is termed a leading economic indicator because it predicts future economic activity.[7]

Because it provides "an assessment of the price of moving the major raw materials by sea," according to The Baltic, "... it provides both a rare window into the highly opaque and diffuse shipping market and an accurate barometer of the volume of global trade -- devoid of political and other agenda concerns."[2]

Other leading economic indicators — which serve as the foundation of important political and economic decisions - are often massaged to serve narrow interests, and subjected to adjustments or revisions. Payroll or employment numbers are often estimates; consumer confidence appears to measure nothing more than sentiment, often with no link to actual consumer behavior; gross national product figures are consistently revised, and so forth. Unlike stock and bond markets, the BDI "is totally devoid of speculative content," says Howard Simons, an economist and columnist at TheStreet.com. "People don't book freighters unless they have cargo to move."[2


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## boston101

jagmp said:


> let me phrase it again.i have assets in Dubai but no will in Dubai. i am a woman with husband and a child. how my assets will be distrubuted in absence of will as a non muslim.can my family members like brothers and sisters have a claim on it. if they are outside Dubai.
> 
> i have up to date will in UK.what happens if i suddenly die.my UK will be valid in Dubai.
> 
> if i have to make a will in Dubai who do i leave with in Dubai. can i leave my UK will in Dubai or i have to make another one.


 
I was told that I have to have my USA will notorized and attested by US foreign affairs and then attested by UAE embassey in USA. Then it is acceptable in UAE (muslim or non-muslim). But you may want to validate further.


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## jagmp

^^

thanks a lot.


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## jagmp

looks like most expats in this forum has not made a will or not done enough research.how nieve we are. we make huge investments in foreign country but ignore most important aspect of it.hno:


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## noir-dresses

I just contacted Just Wills, have an appointment with them this week, most likely will have them make out a will for me.


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## smussuw

jagmp said:


> looks like most expats in this forum has not made will or not done enough research.how nieve we are. we make huge investments in foreign country but ignore most important aspect of it.hno:


Brothers and sisters dont inherit anything with the presence of children. Parents inherit too. This only applies to muslims as far as I know.


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## IISinbadII

boston101 said:


> I'm very much interested to findout some factual information regarding the above for my own research. I'd apprecaite if you could refer me to any english website/books for explaination of the above.


^^ This might help with your research:

*Islamic (Sharia) law of Inheritance*

2737. * There are three groups of persons who inherit from a dead person, on the basis of relationship:

*(i) The first group* consists of the dead person's parents and children, and in the absence of children, the grand children, however low, and among them whoever is nearer to the dead person inherits his property. And as long as even a single person from this group is present, people belonging to the second group do not inherit.

*(ii) The second group* consists of paternal grandfather, paternal grandmother, and sisters, brothers, and in the absence of sisters and brothers their children, whoever from among them is nearer to the dead person, will inherit from him. And as long as even one person from this group is present, people belonging to the third group do not inherit.

*(iii) The third group* consists of paternal uncles and paternal aunts and maternal uncles and maternal aunts, and their descendants. And as long as even one person from the paternal uncles and paternal aunts and maternal uncles and maternal aunts of the dead person is present, their children do not inherit. However, if the paternal step uncle and the son of the real paternal uncle are present, the son of the dead person's real paternal uncle will inherit from him to the exclusion of the paternal step uncle. But if there are several paternal uncles and several paternal cousins, or if the widow is alive, then this rule is not without Ishkal.

2738. If the dead person's own paternal uncle and paternal aunt and maternal uncle and maternal aunt and their children and their grandchildren do not exist, the property will be inherited by the paternal uncles and paternal aunts and maternal uncles and maternal aunts of dead person's parents. And if even they do not exist, the property will be inherited by their descendants. And in the absence of their descendants, the property is inherited by the paternal uncles and paternal aunts and maternal uncles and maternal aunts of the dead person's paternal grand parents. And if even they do not exist, the property is inherited by their descendants.

2739. Husband and wife inherit from each other as will be explained later.

*Inheritance of the First Group*

2740. If out of the first group, there is only one heir of the deceased (for example, father or mother or only one son or only one daughter) he/she inherits the entire estate, and, if there are more than one sons or daughters, the estate is divided among them in such a way, that each son gets twice the share of each daughter.

2741. * If the father and the mother of deceased are his only heirs, the estate is divided into 3 parts, out of which 2 parts are taken by the father and one by the mother. If, the deceased has two brothers or four sisters, or one brother and two sisters, who are Muslims and are related to him from the side of the father (i.e. the father of these persons and of the deceased is same, although their mothers may be different), the effect of their presence on the inheritance is that, although they do not inherit anything in the presence of the father and the mother, the mother gets 1/6 of the estate, and the rest is inherited by the father.

2742. * If only the father, the mother and one daughter are the heirs of deceased, and he (the deceased) does not have two paternal brothers, or four paternal sisters, or one paternal brother, and two paternal sisters, with the conditions already explained, the estate will be divided into 5 parts, out of which the father and the mother take one share each, and the remaining 3 shares are taken by the daughter. And if the deceased has two paternal brothers, or four paternal sisters, or one paternal brother, and two paternal sisters, the estate will again be divided into 5 parts, as the presence of these persons will have no effect. But it is commonly held by the Fuqaha that, in such situation, the estate will be divided into six parts. Father and mother will take one part each, and three parts will be taken by the daughter. As regards the remaining one part, it is again divided into 4 parts out of which one part is taken by the father and 3 by the daughter. As a result, the estate of the deceased is divided into 24 parts, out of which 15 are taken by the daughter, 5 by the father, and 4 by the mother. But this verdict is not without Ishkal, and therefore precaution must be exercised while allocating one-fifth or one-sixth of the mother's share.

2743. If the heirs of the deceased are his father, mother, and one son only, the property is divided into 6 parts, from which one part is taken by the father and one by the mother, and 4 by the son. And if the deceased has several sons or several daughters, they divide the said 4 parts equally among them. If however, he has several sons and daughters, the 4 shares are divided among them in such a manner, that each son gets double the share of each daughter.

2744. If the heirs of deceased are only his father or mother and one or several sons, the property is divided into 6 parts, from which one goes to the father or mother, and 5 to the son. If there are more than one sons, they divide those 5 parts equally among them.

2745. If the deceased is survived by the father or the mother with his sons and daughters, the estate will be divided into 6 parts. One part is taken by the father or the mother, and the remaining 5 parts are divided among the sons and daughters, in such a manner that each son gets double the share of each daughter.

2746. If the heirs of deceased are only his father or mother and one daughter, his estate will be divided into four parts. Out of these one part is taken by the father or the mother, and the rest goes to the daughter.

2747. If the heirs of deceased are his father or mother and several daughters, the property is divided into 5 parts. One part is taken by the father or the mother, and the remaining 4 parts are equally divided among the daughters.

2748. If the deceased has no children, the child of his son gets a son's share even if it be a daughter, and the child of his daughter gets a daughter's share even if it be a son. For example, if the deceased has a grandson by his daughter, and a grand-daughter by his son, the property will be divided into 3 parts, from which one part will go to the grandson by his daughter, and 2 to the grand-daughter by his son.

*Inheritance of the Second Group*

2749. The second group of persons, which inherits on the basis of relationship, consists of paternal grandfather, paternal grandmother, brothers and sisters and, if the dead person does not have brothers and sisters, their children inherit the estate.

2750. If the heirs of deceased is only one brother, or only one sister, he or she inherits the entire estate, and if he has several real brothers alone or several real sisters alone, they divide the property equally among themselves. If, however, he has several real brothers and some real sisters together, every brother gets double the share of a sister. For example, if he has two real brothers and one real sister, the property will be divided into 5 parts, and each brother will get 2 parts while the sister will get one.

2751. If a deceased has real brothers and real sisters, his half brothers and sisters (whose mother is the stepmother of the deceased) do not inherit his property. And if he has no real brothers or real sisters, and has only one half brother or only one half sister, (both from father's side) the entire estate will be inherited by him or her. And if he has many paternal half brothers alone, or many paternal half sisters alone, the estate will be divided among them equally. And, if he has paternal half brothers together with paternal half sisters, every brother gets double the share of every sister.

2752. If the only heir of deceased is one maternal half sister, or one maternal half brother, their father being different from the deceased father, she or he gets the entire estate. And if he has several maternal brothers alone, or several maternal sisters alone, or both of them together, the estate is divided equally among them.

2753. If the dead person has real brothers and sisters, together with half brothers and sisters from father's side, and one half brother or one half sister from maternal side, the paternal brothers and sisters will not inherit. In this case, the estate will be divided into 6 parts, from which one part will be inherited by the maternal brother or sister, and the remaining 5 parts will be divided by the real brothers and sisters among themselves, in such a manner that every brother will get double the share of every sister.

2754. If a deceased has real brothers and sisters together with paternal brothers and sisters, and several maternal brothers and sisters, the paternal brothers and sisters will no inherit. In this case, the estate will be divided into 3 parts, from which one part will be divided by the maternal brothers and sisters equally among themselves, and the remaining 2 parts will be divided among the real brothers and sisters, in such a manner that every brother gets double the share of every sister.

2755. If the only heirs of deceased are his paternal brothers and sisters, and one maternal brother or one maternal sister, the estate will be divided into 6 parts. One part will be given to the maternal brother or the maternal sister, and the remaining parts will be divided among the paternal brothers and sisters, in such a manner that every brother gets double the share of every sister.

2756. If the only heirs of deceased is his paternal brother and sister, and several maternal brothers and sisters, the estate will be divided into 3 parts. One part will be shared among the maternal brothers and sisters equally, and the remaining 2 parts will be divided among the paternal brothers and sisters, in such a manner that every brother gets double the share of every sister.

2757. If the brother, the sister, and the wife of deceased are his only heirs, the wife gets her inheritance in the manner which will be explained later, and the sister and brother get their inheritance as stated in the foregoing rules. Also, if a woman dies and her only heirs are her sister, her brother and her husband, the husband gets half of the estate, and the sister and the brother inherit as explained earlier. However, nothing is reduced from the share of maternal brother and sister to provide for the shares of the wife or the husband. But in the case of real brothers and real sisters, or paternal brothers and sisters, their shares may be reduced. For example, if the heirs of deceased are her husband, maternal brother and sister, and real brother and sister, half of the estate will go to the husband, and one part out of the three parts of the original estate will be given to the maternal brother and sister, and whatever remains will be the property of the real brother and sister. Hence, if the total estate of the deceased is $6, $3 goes to the husband, $2 are taken by the maternal brother and sister, and $1 will be the share of the real brother and sister.

2758. If deceased does not have sister and brother, their share of the inheritance is given to their descendants, and the share of maternal brother's child and maternal sister's child will be divided among them equally. And as for the share of the paternal brother's child and paternal sister's child, or real brother's child and real sister's child, the commonly held principle is that every son gets twice as much as the daughter, but it may be true that they too may get equal shares. Therefore, it is better that they should resort to a compromise.

2759. If the heir of the deceased is only one grandfather or one grandmother, regardless of whether they are paternal or maternal, the entire estate goes to them, and the great grandfather of the deceased does not inherit in the presence of the grandfather. And if only the paternal grandfather and paternal grandmother of the dead person are the heirs, the estate will be divided into 3 parts, from which 2 parts will be taken by the grandfather and one part will be taken by the grandmother. And if the maternal grandfather and maternal grandmother are the heirs, the property will be divided between them equally.

2760. If the heirs of deceased is paternal grandfather or paternal grandmother together with maternal grandfather or maternal grandmother, the property will be divided into 3 parts. 2 parts will go to the paternal grandfather or paternal grandmother, and one part will go to the maternal grandfather or maternal grandmother.

2761. If the heirs of the deceased are paternal grand parents together with maternal grand parents, the estate will be divided into 3 parts. One part will be divided equally between the maternal grandfather and the maternal grandmother, and the remaining 2 parts will go to the paternal grandfather and the paternal grandmother, from which the paternal grandfather gets twice the share of the paternal grandmother.

2762. If the only heirs of a deceased are his wife together with his paternal grand parents, and his maternal grand parents, his wife gets her inheritance in the manner which will be explained later. And one of the 3 parts of the original estate of the deceased will be given to the maternal grandfather and grandmother, to divide it equally between them. The remaining part will be given to the paternal grand parents, and the paternal grandfather gets twice as much as the paternal grandmother. And if the heirs of the deceased are her husband together with her paternal or maternal grand parents, the husband gets half of the property, and the grand parents get their inheritance in the manner mentioned in the foregoing rules.

2763. There are a few combinations of brother or sister, or brothers or sisters with the grand parents:

(i) That the grand parents and brothers or sister are each from the mother's side. In that event the estate is divided among them equally, though they are of different sex.

(ii) That all of them are from the father's side. In that case, the property will be divided among them equally, provided that all of them are males, or all of them are females. And if they are different, every male will get twice as much as the female.

(iii) That the grand parents from the paternal side combine with the real brother or sister. The rule explained in the foregoing clause will also apply in this case. And it should be remembered that if the paternal brother or sister of the deceased combines with real brother or sister, those who are paternal do not inherit alone, but all of them inherit.

(iv) That there are grand parents, paternal and maternal, all males or all females or mixed, combined with the brothers or sisters who are similarly of diverse categories. In this case, 1/3 of the estate will go to the maternal relatives to be divided equally among them, regardless of their sex. And 2/3 of the estate will go to the paternal relatives, among whom every male gets twice as much as a female. And if there is no difference of sex among them, and all of them are males or all of them are females it will be divided equally among them.

(v) That paternal grand parents are combined with maternal brother or sister. In this case, if there is only one brother or sister, he/she gets 1/6 of the property, and if they are many, 1/3 of the property is divided among them equally. The balance goes to the paternal grand parents, and if both the grandfather and the grandmother are there, the grandfather gets twice as much as the grandmother.

(vi) That maternal grand parents combine with the paternal brother. In this case 1/3 goes to the grand parent, although he/she may be alone, and 2/3 goes to the brother although he may be alone. If there is a paternal sister combined with the maternal grandfather or the grandmother, and if she is alone, she will get 1/2 of the property, and if there are several sisters they get 2/3 of it. And in every case, the share of the grandfather and grandmother is 1/3. And based on this calculation, there will be a residue of 1/6 if there is only one sister. Therefore, as an obligatory precaution, a compromise should be effected for that extra residue.

(vii) That there are some paternal and some maternal grand parents combined with one or more paternal brother or sister. In this case, the share of the maternal grandfather or grandmother is 1/3, and if they are many, it will be divided among them equally, although they are of different sex. And the remaining 2/3 of the estate is given to the paternal grandfather or the paternal grandmother and the paternal brother or the paternal sister. If they are of different sex, the estate will be divided in the ratio of one to two, and if they are all of the same sex, it will be divided equally. And if there is a maternal brother or maternal sister with those grand parents, the share of the maternal grandfather or maternal grandmother, together with the maternal brother or maternal sister will be 1/3, which will be divided among them equally, even if they are of different sex. And the share of the paternal grandparents will be 2/3, which be divided among them in the ratio of one to two in the case of difference of sex, and otherwise equally.

(viii) That there are brothers and sisters, some of whom paternal and others maternal, combined with paternal grand parents. In this case, the share of the maternal brother or maternal sister is 1/6, if he/she is alone, and 1/3 if there are many of them, and it will be divided equally among them. And as for the paternal brother or paternal sister together with the paternal grand parents, the remaining estate will go to them, to be divided among them equally if they are all of one sex, and if they are different, it will be divided in the ratio of one to two. And if there is a maternal grand parent combined with those brothers or sisters, the total share of the maternal grandfather and maternal grandmother with maternal brother and maternal sister is 1/3, to be divided equally among them. The share of the paternal brother or paternal sister will be 2/3, which will be divided among them in the ratio of one to two, if they are of different sex, and equally if they are of the same sex.

2764. If the deceased has brothers or sisters, then the brother's or sister's children do not inherit. However, this law does not apply when the inheritance of brother's child or sister's child does not clash with that of brother or sister. For example, if the dead person has paternal brother and maternal grandfather, the paternal brother inherits 2/3 and the maternal grandfather inherits 1/3 of the estate. But if the deceased has a son of the maternal brother as well, the brother's son shares with the maternal grandfather the 1/3 of the estate.

*Inheritance of the Third Group*

2765. The third group of heirs consists of paternal uncle, paternal aunt, maternal uncle, maternal aunt and their children. As mentioned above, the persons constituting this group inherit when none of the persons belonging to the first two categories is present.

2766. * If the only heir of deceased is one paternal uncle or aunt (whether he or she be the real, paternal or maternal brother or sister of his father), he or she inherits the entire estate. And if there are some paternal uncles alone, or aunts alone of the deceased, and they are all real or paternal brothers and sisters of his father, the estate will be divided equally among them. And if the survivors are several paternal uncles together with the aunts of the deceased and all of them are the real or the paternal brothers and sisters of his father, then the paternal uncle will get twice the share of the paternal aunt. For example, if two paternal uncles and one paternal aunt are the heirs of the deceased, the estate will be divided into 5 parts, from which the paternal aunt will get one part, and the two paternal uncles will divide the remaining 4 parts equally between them.

2767. * If the heirs of a deceased are several maternal uncles or several maternal aunts, the estate will divide equally among them. And if the survivors are maternal uncles together with the maternal aunts, the uncles will receive twice the share of the aunts, though, as a precaution, the uncles should compromise from the excess they receive.

2768. * If the heirs of deceased are his paternal uncles and paternal aunts, some of whom are the real brothers and sisters of his father, while others are paternal or maternal half brothers and sisters of his father, those who are paternal half brothers and sisters will not inherit anything. And if the deceased is also survived by one paternal uncle or one paternal aunt, who are the maternal half brother and half sister of his father, the estate will be divided into 6 parts, from which one part will be taken by the paternal uncle or paternal aunt of the deceased, and the remaining will be taken by the full real paternal uncles and paternal aunts of the deceased. If the deceased has no real full paternal uncles and real full paternal aunts, the remaining 5 parts will be taken by those paternal uncles and paternal aunts of the deceased who are the paternal half brothers or sisters of his father. But, if the deceased happens to have those paternal uncles together with paternal aunts who are the maternal half brothers and sisters of his father, the estate will be divided into 3 parts, from which 2 parts will be taken by the real paternal uncles and real paternal aunts of the deceased, who are half paternal brothers and sisters of his father. Then the remaining one part will be taken by those paternal uncles and paternal aunts of the deceased person, who are the maternal half brothers and sisters of his father. It is commonly held by the Fuqaha that the uncles and aunts who are maternally connected with the father of the deceased, should divide their share between them equally, but it may be true that the uncles will receive twice the share of the aunts - however, as a precaution, they should effect a compromise between them.

2769. * If a deceased has only one maternal uncle or only one maternal aunt, he or she inherits the entire estate. And if he has a maternal uncle together with the maternal aunt (whether they be the full, or the paternal, or the maternal half brothers and sisters of his mother), the estate should be divided giving the uncle twice the share of the aunt. And since there is a probability that they should inherit equally, observing precaution should not be ignored in that respect.

2770. * If the heirs of the deceased are one or several maternal uncles, together with maternal aunts from the mother's side, and full maternal uncle and full maternal aunt, and also maternal uncles and aunts from the father's side, then to deprive the maternal uncle and maternal aunt from the father's side is a matter of Ishkal. In all the situations, the uncles will inherit twice the share of the aunts, but a precaution by way of compromise is recommended.

2771. If the heirs of deceased are one or several maternal uncles, or one or several maternal aunts, or maternal uncle together with maternal aunt with one or several paternal uncles, or one or several paternal aunts, or paternal uncle together with paternal aunt, then the estate will be divided into 3 parts from which one part will be taken by the maternal uncle, or maternal aunt, or both of them, and the remaining part will go to the paternal uncle, or paternal aunt, or both of them.

2772. * If the heirs of the deceased are one maternal uncle, or one maternal aunt together with paternal uncle and paternal aunt, and if they are full paternal uncle and the paternal aunt or related from the father's side, the estate will be divided into 3 parts. One part will be taken by the maternal uncle or the maternal aunt, and from the balance two parts of it, 3 will be given to the paternal uncle and one part will be given to the paternal aunt. Based on this calculation, the estate will be divided into 9 parts, from which 3 parts will be given to maternal uncle or maternal aunt, 4 parts are given to the paternal uncle and 2 parts are given to the paternal aunt.

2773. * If the heirs of the deceased are one maternal uncle, or one maternal aunt together with one paternal uncle, or one half paternal aunt related from the mother's side together with full or half paternal uncles and aunts, the estate will be divided into 3 parts. One part will be given to the maternal uncle or the maternal aunt, and the remaining 2 parts will be equally divided between the paternal uncles and aunts, with uncles taking twice the share of the aunts, though precaution is recommended.

2774. * If the heirs of deceased are several maternal uncles and several maternal aunts, all of whom are either full or related from father's or mother's side, and also a paternal uncle and a paternal aunt, the estate will be divided into 3 parts. 2 parts will be divided between the paternal uncle and the paternal aunt as mentioned above, and one part will be divided equally between the maternal uncles and the maternal aunts as explained in rule no. 2770.

2775. * If the heirs of deceased is maternal uncle only, or if there are half maternal aunts related from the mother's side together with several maternal uncles and several maternal aunts who are either full or half related from father's side, and also paternal uncle and paternal aunt, the estate will be divided into 3 parts. Two of these parts will be divided between the paternal uncle and the paternal aunt, in the manner already mentioned, and quite likely, the remaining heirs will share the third part equally.

2776. If the deceased is not survived by paternal uncle, and paternal aunt and maternal uncle and maternal aunt, the share to which the paternal uncle and the paternal aunt are entitled will go to their descendants, and the share to which the maternal uncle and maternal aunt are entitled will go to their descendants.

2777. * If the heirs of the deceased are paternal and maternal uncles and aunts of his father, and paternal and maternal uncles and aunts of his mother, the estate will be divided into 3 parts. One part will be given to the paternal and maternal uncles and aunts of his mother, to be divided among them equally, though a precaution by way of compromise should not be ignored. The remaining 2 parts, the same will be again divided into 3 parts. One part will be divided as above between the father's maternal uncle and aunt, and the remaining 2 parts will be divided as above between the father's paternal uncle and aunt.

*Inheritance By The Husband and the Wife*

2778. If a woman dies without any children, 1/2 of her property is inherited by her husband, and the remaining 1/2 is given to her other heirs. If, she has children from that or another husband, her husband will get 1/4 of the estate, and the remaining part will be inherited by her other heirs.

2779. If a man dies childless, 1/4 of his estate will go to his wife, and the remaining part will be given to his other heirs. And if the man has children from that or another wife, the wife gets 1/8th of the estate, and the remaining part will be inherited by his other heirs. A wife does not inherit anything from the land of a house or a garden or a farm, or from any other land, nor does she inherit from the proceeds of such lands. She does not also inherit from that which stands on that land, like the house and the trees, but she inherits from their proceeds. The same rule applies to the trees and crops and buildings standing on the land of a garden, and on agricultural land, or on any other lands.

2780. If the wife wishes to have any right of discretion over things from which she does not inherit (for example, the land of a residential house) she should obtain the permission of other heirs to do so. Also, it is not permissible for other heirs to have any right of disposal, without the permission of the wife,over those things from the proceeds of which she inherits (for example, the value of the buildings and trees).

2781. * If one wishes to evaluate the buildings and the trees and other similar things, it should be calculated as assessors usually do, that is, by estimating its value as they stand, and not as objects uprooted or extirpated from the land. Or, they should be valued as unrented property remaining on the land, till they are destroyed or till they perish.

2782. The canals for the flow of water fall under the category of land, and the bricks etc, used for its construction fall under the category of building.

2783. If a deceased has more than one wives, and if he is childless, 1/4 of the estate will be divided equally among the wives, in the manner explained above, and if he has children, 1/8 of the estate will be divided equally among them. And the rule applies even if the husband may not have had sexual intercourse with some or all of them. However, if he married a woman during a terminal illness, and did not have sexual intercourse with her, that woman will not inherit from him nor will she be entitled to Mahr.

2784. If a woman marries a man during her illness, and dies in that illness, her husband inherits from her even if he did not have sexual intercourse with her.

2785. If a woman is given revocable divorce, in the manner explained in the orders relating to 'divorce', and she dies during the waiting period of divorce (Iddah), her husband inherits from her. Also, if the husband dies during the period of that Iddah, the wife inherits from him. But, if one of them dies after the expiry of that period (Iddah) or during the period (Iddah) of irrevocable divorce, the other does not inherit from him/her.

2786. * If a husband divorces his wife during his illness, and dies before the expiry of twelve lunar months, the wife inherits from him on the fulfilment of three conditions:

(i) If she has not married another man during that period. And if she has married another man during that period, she will not inherit, though, as a precaution, a compromise should be reached (between the heirs and the wife).

(ii) If she had not sought divorce herself, of her own accord, irrespective of whether she paid her husband some consideration to obtain divorce or not. If she had herself asked for divorce, she does not inherit.

(iii) If the husband died during the illness in which he divorced her, as a result of that illness, or some other reason. If the husband recovers from that illness, and dies later owing to some other cause, the divorced wife will not inherit from him.

2787. The dress which a husband gives to his wife to wear, is to be treated as a part of his estate after his death, even if the wife may have worn it. 

*Miscellaneous Rules of Inheritance
*

2788. * The Holy Qur'an, a ring, and a sword of the deceased, and the clothes worn by him, belong to the eldest son. And if of the first three things, the deceased has left more than one - for example, if he has left two copies of the Qur'an, or two rings, the obligatory precaution is that his eldest son should make a compromise with the other heirs in respect of those things. The travel baggage, the gun, the dagger and other such weapons may also be included in the above list, but, as an obligatory precaution, the eldest son may compromise with other heirs in that regard.

2789. * If the deceased has two eldest sons, for example, if his two sons are born of two wives at one and the same time - they should divide his clothes, Qur'an, ring and sword equally between themselves.

2790. * If the deceased is indebted, and if his debt is equal to his estate or more, the four things which belong to the eldest son, as mentioned in the preceding rule, should be given by him for the settlement of the debt, or he should pay equal value from his own wealth. And if the debt is less than the estate, and if the debt cannot be set off by what remains of the estate after setting apart the four things for the eldest son, the eldest son should give those four things, or from his own wealth to set off the debt of the deceased. And if the balance is adequate to clear the debt fully, even then the eldest son should participate, as an obligatory precaution, to clear the debt as explained above. For example, if the entire estate of the deceased is US $60, and the articles given to the eldest son are worth $20, and the deceased has a debt worth $30, the eldest son will proportionally pay $10 from the four things he received from the deceased.

2791. A muslim inherits from a non-Muslim, but a non-Muslim does not inherit from a deceased Muslim, even if he be his father or son.

2792. * If a person kills one of his relatives intentionally and unjustly, he does not inherit from him. But, if it was due to some error, for example, if he threw a stone in the air and by chance, it hit one of his relatives and killed him, he inherits from him. Nevertheless, it is a matter of Ishkal for him to inherit from the diyah (blood money) for the killing.

2793. * Whenever it is proposed to divide the inheritance, as a precaution, the share equal to that of one son, should be set aside for a child who is in its mother's womb, expected to be a son, and would inherit if he is born alive (when it is expected that only one child will be born) and the remaining parts should be divided among the others heirs. In fact, even if the children in the womb are expected to be more than one, for example, if the woman is expected to give birth to twins or triplets, as a precaution, their shares should be set aside for them. And if, contrary to expectation, one boy or one girl was born, then other heirs should divide the surplus among themselves.


----------



## inrainbows

*properties in offshore company*

Met with some offshore specialists and wanted to share what we found so far (sorry for long post):

- two kinds of offshore companies: a) offshore companies outside UAE (BVI, Jersey etc), or b) offshore companies within UAE (eg RAK offshore)

- property can be transferred to either type of company.

- technically, Sharia applies to UAE offshore companies (but there are ways to structure it to avoid Sharia, more details below). Sharia does not apply to BVI/Jersey etc.

- with UAE offshore there is less paper work required on transactions. With BVI etc company documents (which need to be shown on every transaction) have to be attested by UAE embassy in jurisdiction of company (most likely London for Jersey) and by the ministry of foreign affairs. Foreign attestation also costs money (and agents of BVI/Jersey etc in UAE also tend to charge fees for every attestation). Emaar typically keeps the original attested documents on transactions.

- With UAE offshore, there are local firms (that help you form/structure the company as well) that deal with Emaar/Nakheel every day. So they are familiar with the every changing requirements of Emaar and help with local document attestation (no foreign attestation required); i.e. they specialize in doing offshore companies only for the property business.

- Structure of local company: all people who want to inherit assets should be share holders. If a shareholder dies, his/her shares are disposed in compliance with Sharia. There are ways around this: namely, a pre-signed (undated) sales purchase agreement of shares, in which potentially deceased shareholder passes on the share to other shareholders. Each shareholder will have to create one of these for full protection. On death, surviving shareholders purchase all shares by exercising the sales purchase agreement, before "official announcemtn of death". Shareholders can appoint each other to make transactions on specific properties or all properties.

- there can be appointed director(s) (who don't 't own any shares) of the company who are authorized to make transactions and operate bank account.
Directors can also be shareholders.

- For BVI/Jersey companies, only one shareholder/director is needed. And a "reserve director" (eg: spouse) becomes active director in case of death. No sharia law applies in case of death.

I can't vouch for the legal validity of any of the above, this is just information we got from meeting with offshore specialists in UAE.

thanks.


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai Financial Market benchmark rises by 2.12 per cent

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Markets/10319123.html


----------



## noir-dresses

World stock markets rally following oil price 

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Markets/10319083.html


----------



## Imre

*Barclays’ Abu Dhabi Holders Make $2.4 Billion in Sale (Update1)*

June 2 (Bloomberg) -- Barclays Plc’s Abu Dhabi investors made a profit of 1.46 billion pounds ($2.4 billion) as they sold a stake in the lender seven months after helping Britain’s third-biggest bank avoid a government bailout. 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aVcTR9iHzfSI&refer=home


----------



## High Times

^^

Only the really clever people were buying Bank stock at that time. :cheers:


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> ^^That's a bit strong Mackie, expect to be banned immediately:lol:
> 
> Cameras, There is a Jumbo Electronics on JBR Walk opposite Dorrabay.
> 
> I bought a Canon G10 and can recommend it.kay: Cost me $450 in the Carribean. Stunning quality images from a semi pro compact that fits in your pocket unlike a DSLR. Only 5x zoom but night shots are unbelievable.


Mackie my advice would be to buy a camera with a fairly wide angle lens. Zoom is not that important but getting everybody in the picture or nice wide shots of the Marina certainly is. I've got a Panasonic Lumix, the range comes with a wide angle lens as standard which is equivalent to a 28mm lens in the old film format. Certainly get a 28mm equivalent lens camera, that's my advice. I agree with TrueBlue you need a compact camera to slip in your pocket I never take my SLR with me and it remains on the shelf most of the time, too bulky and too scared to lose it, my little Lumix gets far more use.


----------



## mackie1964

Thanks guys, saw your posts too late.
Just got back from the shops. Bought a Sony T900 for AED1600, not bad.
Will test it tomorrow so you should see some photos on here. :cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

DFM tests 2000-point barrier as rally steadies


----------



## noir-dresses

DFM tests 2000-point barrier as rally steadies 

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...6032009_f044e9fd28b444abadbaded80e8e9d9b.aspx


----------



## noir-dresses

Increasing activity suggests Dubai realty market recovery by late 2010 


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...6032009_7be6e241c1a84da2a6e60a1409b59c00.aspx


----------



## noir-dresses

YOU WILL LIKE THIS ONE

GCC Immigration Heads Propose Dual Residency

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...ae/2009/June/theuae_June85.xml&section=theuae

:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

Work as a team, urges Mohammad

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Government/10319365.html


----------



## noir-dresses

GCC hopeful of UAE's participation in monetary union 

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...6032009_eba898ca12d948c19bd5000d748d5519.aspx


----------



## Freestyler

For rents what charges landlords are paying and what charges tenants are paying?

And how agency fee is paid? Is paid as according to the payment schedule since tenants are not paying in 1 cheque for the year these days.

Thanks


----------



## Naz UK

Well done Noir, 2 excellent stories you found there. Very rare to see this kind of thing in the local press. Well done. <puts hand on heart> kay:


----------



## Imre

off- plan market still alive :lol:

*In fact, only two off-plan sales have been recorded at Better Homes over the last six months.*

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10319306.html

*Low house sales bring rental surge *

By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: June 02, 2009, 23:01


Dubai: Residential sales prices in Dubai have hit the bottom of the market, as they reflect prices seen around 2006.

"We're settling more into the bottom rather [than] an upswing. [In] quarter two 2010, Dubai will be a more mature market, where developers will be able to finance something and build a product needed in the market," David Macadam, director for commercial leasing at Better Homes, said during a Cityscape Connect meeting yesterday.

The real estate market has been especially slow in recent months and with a long, hot summer approaching, the lull is likely to continue until well after Ramadan.

In terms of residential sales, Better Homes is doing 40 per cent less than it used to do, but all these transactions are for completed properties. Off-plan sales are at zero, Macadam said. 


In fact, only two off-plan sales have been recorded at Better Homes over the last six months.

The lack of sales has triggered a surge in rentals.

"In the history of Better Homes, we have never transacted more leases for residential than we have in the [last] month," said Macadam.

Around 400 lease transactions were completed in May, following on from 320 in April, 308 in March and 208 in February.

Around a third of these have been settled by new entries to the mid-income market from places like the UK, Western Europe and the US. 

Another third has been generated from an influx from other emirates, such as Sharjah. 

The final third has come from what Macadam described as "shifting" - people moving to larger properties within Dubai itself.

Going forward, there is tipped to be a return to the basics, with developers looking carefully at the market for which they are actually developing.

"Prestigious projects acted as a catalyst for the region, they were a representation of the growth of Dubai," said Sunil Gomes, the "chief guru" at Guru Real Estate.

However, in today's market, developers need to be more focused on who they are developing for.

"We have to be confident there is a reason behind development and so master developers and sub-developers have to do what the market needs. Developments that have started and have a commitment [to investors] have to be completed. 

"Some developers are merging, Rera are stopping developments that haven't started. There is no point in building unless people are able to live and enjoy," said Elaine Jones, chief executive of Asteco.

Gomes agreed with this viewpoint. "Developers will have to look at the pricing of the sub-divisions, what they can deliver and how & As master developers and sub-developers, they will have to be very clear in what their objectives are and who they are selling ... to," Gomes said.

"The two [main] issues are cash and confidence. We need to address these so people want to invest money here," Jones said.

Jones also said affordable interest rates on mortgages, confidence and more rent-to-own financing plans would be key in resuscitating the market.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10319306.html


----------



## DXBQuantum

Freestyler said:


> For rents what charges landlords are paying and what charges tenants are paying?
> 
> And how agency fee is paid? Is paid as according to the payment schedule since tenants are not paying in 1 cheque for the year these days.
> 
> Thanks


Hi Freestyler,

Landlords usually pick up the maintenance and service charge fee. 

Tenants pay for the rent, unless there is some other agreement where the maintenance is separate or included.. e.t.c 

Agency fee is usually 5% of the yearly rental amount, paid for by the tenant, but again this is case to case basis..


----------



## williteverbebuiltnow

High Times said:


> ^^
> 
> Only the really clever people were buying Bank stock at that time. :cheers:


...to be fair they paid £1.53 for their stake...Barclays stock was trading at 47p only a few days later on the 23rd of Jan...and IPIC was staring a £1.4bn loss in the face on a £2bn investment i dont think they were looking too clever then... 

Well done for catching a falling knife and then having the cojones to hang onto the investment when you have lost 69% on it maybe....


----------



## boston101

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ This might help with your research:
> 
> *Islamic (Sharia) law of Inheritance*
> 
> 
> Thanks so much and I'd really appreciate if you could name the source/auther as well.


----------



## pcheesman

Hi 

In terms of inheritance matters in the UAE be aware of what happens if someone dies (particularly if it is the husband). 

A friend of mine died in a motor accident about 2 years ago in Dubai. He was married with 2 kids.

Upon reporting his death the matter goes to the courts here under Sharia law. Immediately all assets are frozen including property, bank accounts etc etc.

So if you have a joint account with your wife (and God forbid something happens), that account will be frozen, and she will not have access to it. This includes property etc.

Fortunately we were all in a position to help her out, but it can take many months to get the decision from the courts.

In addition she had 2 sons who are not of legal age. Therefore following Sharia law a big chunck of the money went to the family of her husband. This included life assurance money their policy was with a local company.

In the end they had to draw up legal documents in Latin America, attested, translated to Arabic etc etc and presented to the local court in order that the money went to the wife.

Now, they both came from Latin America, and families didn't speak English let alone Arabic, so you can imagine all the problems.

My advice is to get a will, from a licensed company in the UAE. These are accepted by the courts here. However decisions still take time.

Some people I know here where the husband has given their wife a blank cheque so that if the husband dies, she basically transfers the balance to a separate account before they have time to notify the bank. I am not sure that would work as it would look very suspicious

So I think as a safety net people should open a joint offshore account in somewhere like the Isle Of Man and move the majority of their money there, and keep say 6 months of money here. That account I believe would not be subject to Sharia law and therefore can continue to be used.

I am not a a financial advisor, and this is just based on personal experience, so please check with the relevant authorities.


I do work in real estate though and I can recommend Globaleye as well whom I have used with clients to set up BVIs. Most developers recognise this concept, particularly Emaar, Nakheel.

Another company I have used for BVIs and wills is called OffShore Investor. PM me if you would like a name and number.


Hope this helps.


----------



## Imre

Press release
For immediate publication 3 June 2009

*Dubai real estate on road to recovery*

Despite industry issues, market expected to see first signs of growth within 6 – 12 months say experts at Cityscape Connect forum 

Although cash and confidence issues still prevail, Dubai’s property market will witness the first green shoots of recovery sometime between the end of 2009 and the second quarter of 2010, according to a panel of industry experts speaking here today (Tuesday 2 June) at the third ‘not for profit’ Cityscape Connect business breakfast, 

Attended by more than 100 property executives, legal advisors and investors, the industry forums were initiated to stimulate networking, transparency and open debate on the key issues affecting the Dubai real estate industry which although experiencing a dramatic reversal of fortunes, is now showing signs that the market is stabilising and prices are beginning to bottom-out.

Elaine Jones, CEO of Dubai-based real estate agency Asteco echoed the sentiment of the panel: “It’s about cash & confidence. For example, we need to reduce interest rates, relax lending criteria and address the residency visa issue. This will at least start to bring back much needed confidence to the market and begin to stimulate growth.”

Indeed investor confidence was debated at length, examining numerous issues such as defaults, incomplete projects, late payments and fraud. “Trust is strained,” stated Sunil Gomes, of Guru Real Estate. “Credibility is king, if we lose that we have nothing. Projects must be completed and investors better protected.”

Steven Henderson, Partner in legal firm Clifford Chance, agreed that trust was paramount but added that the law had previously been struggling to keep up with the rapid growth of the market and that an over regulated market might have an adverse effect and stifle growth. 

“Dubai has introduced Escrow accounts and the Strata law, but a federal law for real estate would also help to restore confidence. Banks also have a role to play here especially when developers experience credit or cash flow problems” he said.

Difficulties in the banking sector have been widely reported, however, the panel agreed that although credit was available for exceptionally low risk customers, besides rates and approval ratings, the sector needed consistency.

“Historically, the region has practiced ‘relationship lending’ but now with the credit crunch, banks are more cautious and have raised their minimum lending criteria especially for real estate projects. They can no longer just use the project as security they often also require ring-fenced assets independent to the project as security.”

However despite industry issues the panel was optimistically cautious about the timescale for recovery. Asked when Dubai could expect a market recovery, the general consensus was sometime between the end of 2009 and the second quarter of 2010.

“This clearly shows that industry sentiment has moved into positive territory and it is equally important that Cityscape through the Connect series of events continues to provide a platform for open debate. As the largest real estate event brand of its kind in the world, it is crucial in these times of economic uncertainty that Cityscape remains a trusted brand, giving back to the industry that it supports,“ said Rohan Marwaha, Managing Director of the Cityscape 

Moderated by Bob Hird, Senior Director and Head of Investments at CB Richard Ellis, other industry experts on the panel included, David Macadam, Director of Commercial Division at Better Homes and Shahram Shamsaee, SVP Shopping Malls, Majid Al Futtaim Company.

Cityscape Connect is an initiative of Cityscape, the real estate service brand that has achieved international recognition and success. Cityscape events are held in Dubai, Singapore, Abu Dhabi, New York, Mumbai, Moscow, Saudi Arabia and Latin America. Cityscape events attract key industry figures such as international investors, property developers, governmental and development authorities, leading architects, designers, consultants and senior professionals involved in the property industry. Furthermore Cityscape has also established Cityscape Intelligence, an online subscription based service for real estate professionals, Cityscape Datamonitor, a real estate research consultancy, and the Cityscape magazine.


----------



## IISinbadII

pcheesman said:


> Hi
> 
> In terms of inheritance matters in the UAE be aware of what happens if someone dies (particularly if it is the husband).
> 
> A friend of mine died in a motor accident about 2 years ago in Dubai. He was married with 2 kids.
> 
> Upon reporting his death the matter goes to the courts here under Sharia law. Immediately all assets are frozen including property, bank accounts etc etc.
> 
> So if you have a joint account with your wife (and God forbid something happens), that account will be frozen, and she will not have access to it. This includes property etc.
> 
> Fortunately we were all in a position to help her out, but it can take many months to get the decision from the courts.
> 
> In addition *she had 2 sons who are not of legal age. Therefore following Sharia law a big chunck of the money went to the family of her husband. *This included life assurance money their policy was with a local company.
> 
> In the end they had to draw up legal documents in Latin America, attested, translated to Arabic etc etc and presented to the local court in order that the money went to the wife.
> 
> Now, they both came from Latin America, and families didn't speak English let alone Arabic, so you can imagine all the problems.
> 
> My advice is to get a will, from a licensed company in the UAE. These are accepted by the courts here. However decisions still take time.
> 
> Some people I know here where the husband has given their wife a blank cheque so that if the husband dies, she basically transfers the balance to a separate account before they have time to notify the bank. I am not sure that would work as it would look very suspicious
> 
> So I think as a safety net people should open a joint offshore account in somewhere like the Isle Of Man and move the majority of their money there, and keep say 6 months of money here. That account I believe would not be subject to Sharia law and therefore can continue to be used.
> 
> I am not a a financial advisor, and this is just based on personal experience, so please check with the relevant authorities.
> 
> 
> I do work in real estate though and I can recommend Globaleye as well whom I have used with clients to set up BVIs. Most developers recognise this concept, particularly Emaar, Nakheel.
> 
> Another company I have used for BVIs and wills is called OffShore Investor. PM me if you would like a name and number.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


^^ This makes no seance. Even if their kids were minor, they should still inherit from their father. What you have noted seem to be procedural delays or language problems that have nothing to do with the Sharia law.....IMO.


----------



## investor7

*URGENT*

Hi Guys, im new to this forum. I tried contacting the royalestatesinvestors group but noone is replying. I too am an investor with several properties in the Royal Estates and am looking for a way to get my money back. What has been decided? Can someone please fill me in?

Thanks!


----------



## agod

I sat with a Solicitor a couple of days ago, I am not a Muslim, with no kids, and I have good UK wills in place, she said that in general, Dubai would take the view that your UK will would stand, and as long as it had a line saying "all my worldy goods" in it, my wife would inherit, plus all our properties are jointly owned. She did mention offshore as well.

But I had all this in Florida as well, about wills, and a few thousand Dollars lighter through lawyers fees, and something called a Quit claim deed, which I could have got myself for a few bucks.

Same in UK, old aunt dies leaving a will scribbled on a bit of paper, everyone laughed, there is no way that would be accepted, the Duchy is going to get that, you will lose it all, when it came to probate, the chaps says no problem, I see loads of these, batty old girls and scraps of paper, and accepts it.

So in my IMO, depending on who you are, and your own set up, and religion, there is always someone out there, who will always have his hands in your pockets.

Al


----------



## Spurs

investor7 said:


> Hi Guys, im new to this forum. I tried contacting the royalestatesinvestors group but noone is replying. I too am an investor with several properties in the Royal Estates and am looking for a way to get my money back. What has been decided? Can someone please fill me in?
> 
> Thanks!


If you email the following address they will add you to the group:

[email protected]


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai source Zawya*

Wednesday, June 3, 2009
500 Investors Sign Petition Seeking Dubai Ruler's Intervention in Dispute with Dubai Developer 

Dubai source Zawya

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates, 2nd of June 2009 -[ME NewsWire]

Ebony Ivory Investors Group, 500 international property buyers and investors, have signed a petition requesting Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA)
and the Dubai Ruler's Court to investigate the Jumeirah Lakes Towers Ebony Ivory Towers project, involving Al Fajer PropertiesAl Fajer PropertiesLoading... and its marketing agent Dynasty Zarooni

The petitioners have asked RERA to cancel the Ebony Ivory project and require Al Fajer Propertiesto provide a full refund, alleging legal violations by the developer, including fake construction photographs and misleading press releases.

"We have paid approximately $140 million and have a signed contract from Sheikh Maktoum Bin Hasher Al Maktoum," said Moses Oye, spokesperson for the affected investors from the US, Canada, UK, Russia, India, Iran, Pakistan and other nations. "Now, we want our money back."

The investor group said it is essential for RERAto conduct a comprehensive and transparent investigation to resolve the matter quickly because of the potential damage it may cause to overall investor confidence in Dubai. "We understand that Al Fajer PropertiesAl Fajer PropertiesLoading... is controlled by a powerful member of Dubai's ruling family," added Oye. "However, if our complaints are not treated as per the rule of law, that will damage the reputation of the Dubai government, which we believe has always stood for transparency, accountability and implementation of the rule of law for all."

In its complaint, the investor group cited advertisements in a local daily newspaper published in July, 2008 that show construction cranes with Al Fajer PropertiesAl Fajer PropertiesLoading...' logo and a structure rising six floors above ground. The caption read: "Shot on location on 10th June 2008, Ebony Ivory, Jumeirah Lakes TowersJumeirah Lakes Towers


However, independent media reports have confirmed that the photographs actually showed Al Fajer's other project, Jumeirah Business Centre Towers. In reality, the site for Ebony Ivory Towers is merely a hole on the ground with no workers or machinery on site. The investor group has sought for an explanation from Al Fajer Properties and has raised the issue with RERARERALoading... on a number of occasions, without receiving a response for the past six months. Now the investor group is ready to seek further legal action against Al Fajer Properties and Dynasty Zarooni
-Ends-

Contacts
For Ebony Ivory Investors Group:
Moses Oye, +447956289390
Fax: +442084590202
[email protected]


----------



## Freestyler

join the group http://groups.google.com/group/royalestatesinvestorsgroup

If that doesn't work send the email as Spurs mentioned.


----------



## dubsolos1

People talk about market recovery. Hydra, Al Fajer, Deeyar, and so on simply make sure that the recovery will take a lot longer than it should. Who has confidence to buy anything anymore? Off plan will not be built and your money stolen, finished products are crumbling, why should anybody buy here anymore? I am being too pessimistic but you get my point.

If the govt wants a quick recovery it should make sure that the houses people bought are being built with no delay, and that they dont crumble after a couple of years.

Hydra Village is more than 2 years late, laws should be in place to refund the investors 100% + interest rate, same with any project with more than 1 year delay. No changing laws, gathering investors, petitions, uproars, no, simply govt forces the company to pay back. Unfortunately this would happen only in ideal world.


----------



## investor7

I tried to join the group and this is the reply i got. I then sent an email with no response till now. What do i do? Im really anxious to join.

'Hello, We're writing to let you know that the group that you tried to contact(royalestatesinvestorsgroup) either doesn't exist, or you don't have permission to post to it. There are a few possible reasons why this happened: * You might have spelled or formatted the group name incorrectly.* The owner of the group removed this group, so there's nobody there to contact.* You may need to join the group before being allowed to post.* This group may not be open to posting. If you have questions about this or any other group, please visit the Google Groups Help Center at http://groups.google.com/support. Thanks, and we hope you'll continue to enjoy Google Groups. The Google Groups Team


----------



## DXBQuantum

He has the money to buy Portsmouth but cant finish a project? - thats not right...


----------



## Adel

IISinbadII said:


> ^^ This makes no seance. Even if their kids were minor, they should still inherit from their father. What you have noted seem to be procedural delays or language problems that have nothing to do with the Sharia law.....IMO.


If both the children were girls the uncles and parents will inherit with them according to Sunni Islamic Sharia.


----------



## Freestyler

Adel said:


> If both the children were girls the uncles and parents will inherit with them according to Sunni Islamic Sharia.


12.5% of inheritance.


----------



## Cyrus55

dubsolos1 said:


> People talk about market recovery. Hydra, Al Fajer, Deeyar, and so on simply make sure that the recovery will take a lot longer than it should. Who has confidence to buy anything anymore? Off plan will not be built and your money stolen, finished products are crumbling, why should anybody buy here anymore? I am being too pessimistic but you get my point.
> 
> If the govt wants a quick recovery it should make sure that the houses people bought are being built with no delay, and that they dont crumble after a couple of years.
> 
> Hydra Village is more than 2 years late, laws should be in place to refund the investors 100% + interest rate, same with any project with more than 1 year delay. No changing laws, gathering investors, petitions, uproars, no, simply govt forces the company to pay back. Unfortunately this would happen only in ideal world.


What recovery? Honestly after all this who would invest in Dubai or UAE? What I hear from here and there people are leaving Dubai.....


----------



## tehsin123

"Recovery" is just in newspapers and media. Another hype, just like all those previous hypes which fooled so many of us.


----------



## Richard Head

Cyrus55 said:


> What recovery? Honestly after all this who would invest in Dubai or UAE? What I hear from here and there people are leaving Dubai.....


You're right. Every economic recession anywhere in the world, ever, has resulted in a recovery. But this one is different. A never ending downward spiral. Actually everyone is leaving. If you're the last one would you be kind enough to turn the lights off. Thanks. hno:

Christ i'm turning into Naz. :cheers:


----------



## AppleMac

Cyrus55 said:


> What recovery? Honestly after all this who would invest in Dubai or UAE? What I hear from here and there people are leaving Dubai.....


yes people are leaving - but then people are coming as well.

If there are jobs people will come.


----------



## Naz UK

Hahahaha Richard...holy cow!! Read my comment unders urs in the Damac thread!!! And no i didnt write it after reading this!


----------



## NeilP

UK house prices 'up 2.6% in May' according to the Halifax. The Nationwide building society reported a 1.2% rise in prices in May. Another blip or the start of house price stabilisation ?


----------



## jagmp

^^
its a spring summer blip.there is a long way ahead before recovery starts in uk real estate.


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## 234sale

Maybe it is because base rates are effectively zero.
but 
House prices now have no safety net.
Self Cert mortgage no longer available.
Mutiples 4x max by September 09
Unemployment Rising.
Clown running a circus, but not for much longer. Gone by next week IMO.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...5443326/Local-elections-2009-results-map.html


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> Maybe it is because base rates are effectively zero.
> but
> House prices now have no safety net.
> Self Cert mortgage no longer available.
> Mutiples 4x max by September 09
> Unemployment Rising.
> Clown running a circus, but not for much longer. Gone by next week IMO.
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...5443326/Local-elections-2009-results-map.html


Dubai on the other hand:
House prices are continuing to crash on a much bigger scale than the UK.
No kind of mortgage is available.
Unemployment not rising.Errrr,thats cos people who lose their jobs,of which there are many, are having to move back home.
Clown running an equally disorganised circus.


----------



## AppleMac

Wannaberich said:


> Dubai on the other hand:
> House prices are continuing to crash on a much bigger scale than the UK.



Well there are some on this site that would disagree with you - they apparently believe that the crisis is over and rents and prices are on the rise..

Given that the population of Dubai is shrinking by the week and around 30,000 extra units will be delivered this year I can't see it. hno:


----------



## 234sale

Actually it seems prices have stopped falling in some districts, as mortgages have returned. I can borrow 70% for an apartment, based on valuation. Also I noticed that transaction numbers have significantly increased, yes at lower prices, but higher than the distress sales of before. 

Seems UK are still happy to give 90%, based on 5x salaries, but you can no longer self-cert, which is going to be a serious issue for those 2-3 year fixed rate mortgage coming up over the next few months. 

Car sales are still down year on year, the car compensation deal is back firing as people with 6-9 year old cars are now holding on and not buying new. 

Now why didn’t they scrap stamp duty on all property if they were truly serious about kick starting the economy.

Nothing has been done to resolve the epic amount of debt need to be recovered by the Government, in fact more was printed and chucked at the system. With the possibility of a new Prime Minister, even a new Labour Prime Minister not embarrassed by another mans or his own mistakes. This is the time when change will come.

Numbers can be fiddled, results twisted to make the story you want. If you have a vested interest in green shots appearing, you have nothing to lose by deciding how you publish the numbers.


----------



## 234sale

Maybe, Property is only worth what the majority can borrow from a bank to buy it?


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## paul66

Dubai may have large debts currently, but they also have many aces up their sleeves should they wish to clear its debt.
The main being the introduction of VAT at 5%, just this alone will clear debts in no time!
They can also introduce a low rate income tax if needed.

Unfortunately, the UK, USA or Europe no longer have these cards to play with!

Paul


----------



## paul66

*Dubai to reveal new property laws*

by Bradley Hope, The National
Last Updated: June 04. 2009 7:49PM UAE / June 4. 2009 3:49PM GMT 

Dubai is expected to release a new set of regulations governing the property industry within weeks, in a move to increase confidence in a sector hit by falling prices and a growing number of disputes between investors and developers.

The Government recently published Law 9 of 2009, an amendment that introduced a sliding scale of refunds for buyers who defaulted on their purchase plans for property in off-plan developments.

But the bigger changes are likely to come with the introduction of regulations this summer, possibly as soon as next month, which provide details on how Law 9 and other property laws are to be interpreted and administered going forward.

Law 9 provided the clearest guidelines yet about the issue of defaults and significantly increased the power of the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) and Dubai Land Department by making them the final judges on every default, and giving RERA the authority to cancel projects.

“The whole purpose is to put the purchaser in a situation of security,” said Mohammed Kamal, the head of the property practice at Lovells. “Currently there are some very bad situations where purchasers have no certainty on what is going to happen.”

Emad Farouq, a senior legal counsel at the Dubai Land Department, said recently that the new regulations would mostly focus on the procedure for terminating a purchase agreement, the payment of damages, and the rights and obligations of a developer when reselling a unit after a contract was terminated.

One problem with the law by itself is that many cases fall outside of the situations described in its wording. One example is a purchaser who has paid 80 per cent on a home, but defaults on the remaining amount after completion of the unit. Law 9 says in this case, the buyer loses all their money, which would be clearly “unfair”, said Michael Lunjevich, the head of the property practice at Hadef and Partners.

In this case, the regulations should spell out a situation where the buyer could still receive the unit and owe the developer the remaining 20 per cent, Mr Lunjevich said.

“The broader regulations being discussed will take into account the totality of the property laws and the overall purposes of the changes,” he said. 

The regulations are expected to deal with how RERA will assess a project’s viability before making a decision on how to cancel it. For instance, RERA might work with third-party experts to determine the viability of projects, Mr Farouq said.

One of the most pressing issues, according to lawyers, is what happens in cases where RERA cancels a project but there is no money left in the escrow account. According to the law, the investors are supposed to receive a complete refund.

“Investors are calling me every week with situations like this,” said Ludmila Yamalova, a lawyer with Al Sayyah Legal Consultants and Advocates in Dubai. “There needs to be some kind of mechanism besides just going to court.”

Lawyers said possibilities would include a RERA-sanctioned auction of assets such as land or, if the project is further along in development, the sale of an unfinished building to a distressed asset fund. 

But not all cases will be resolved to investors’ satisfaction. The economy was entering a painful cycle that would see the end of some developers and many investors losing money, said Mr Lunjevich.

“People got caught up in the euphoria of the never-ending boom,” he said. “Some people jumped on the boom wagon too late and it is devastating their financial position ... we need to get down to the cold, hard reality of ambitious projects not being built and people losing a lot of money.

“In 12 to 18 months, Dubai will get rid of the bad investors and the bad projects.”

source: http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090604/BUSINESS/706049923/1042


----------



## sidxb

Wannaberich said:


> Dubai on the other hand:
> House prices are continuing to crash on a much bigger scale than the UK.
> No kind of mortgage is available.
> Unemployment not rising.Errrr,thats cos people who lose their jobs,of which there are many, are having to move back home.
> Clown running an equally disorganised circus.


Hey wannabe ... I duno the source of your news.

When you say prices in dubai continue to crash on "BIGGER SCALE" than UK I dont know whats your reference for this scale ? 
1)It depends on the type of property size / location even within dubai to gauge it.
2) I remember when market started moving south in Jul-Aug 2008 in Dubai , the UK market had already taken a huge dip. 

"BIGGER SCALE" is quite subjective. 
As for the mortgages , I checked with ADCB bank , they have started giving mortgages. So is the case with Mashreq and First Gulf in Dubai. Mashreq is giving upto 80 % financing and the criteria is not too strict either.

I knew two people who lost there jobs ( among 100's I know from friends circles who DID NOT get fired) . One of them got job in Qatar and other finally after 3 months has found a job in Abu Dhabi. 

Things may still not be good , but surely have started improving.

I understand you are not in Dubai / UAE so you may not have first hand info but same is the reason why you should not get so strongly opinionated about this area since you dont have first hand info. 

I wonder if even the daily telegraph or mirror guys ever visit before publishing about middle east to get the first hand impression of place or just publish things based on word of mouth.


----------



## paul66

The British media dont have the balls to print anything good about anyone wether its Dubai or at home in the UK!

The British love doom and gloom - to match the weather.


----------



## Wannaberich

sidxb said:


> Hey wannabe ... I duno the source of your news.
> 
> When you say prices in dubai continue to crash on "BIGGER SCALE" than UK I dont know whats your reference for this scale ?
> 1)It depends on the type of property size / location even within dubai to gauge it.
> 2) I remember when market started moving south in Jul-Aug 2008 in Dubai , the UK market had already taken a huge dip.
> 
> "BIGGER SCALE" is quite subjective.
> As for the mortgages , I checked with ADCB bank , they have started giving mortgages. So is the case with Mashreq and First Gulf in Dubai. Mashreq is giving upto 80 % financing and the criteria is not too strict either.
> 
> I knew two people who lost there jobs ( among 100's I know from friends circles who DID NOT get fired) . One of them got job in Qatar and other finally after 3 months has found a job in Abu Dhabi.
> 
> Things may still not be good , but surely have started improving.
> 
> I understand you are not in Dubai / UAE so you may not have first hand info but same is the reason why you should not get so strongly opinionated about this area since you dont have first hand info.
> 
> I wonder if even the daily telegraph or mirror guys ever visit before publishing about middle east to get the first hand impression of place or just publish things based on word of mouth.


1/House prices in the UK 'corrected'by about 25%.
In fact Halifax and Nationwide just reported prices went up.
Dubais prices 'crashed'by 60% plus no-one can say if the bottom has been reached.
2/You say banks are lending yet all I read is that they arent.
3/Check with companies like Nakheel to see how many people have lost their jobs.Read the recent report posted here by a removal company on how busy they are with people leaving Dubai.
4/I am not in Dubai,and?I know whats going on.Thats the beauty of the internet.
5/You are in denial,I'm not.I have an interest in Dubai getting back on its feet and doing well yet the facts are there.It just amuses me when people print negative stuff on the UK when Dubai isnt exactly all roses.


----------



## 234sale

From advertised price inclusive, yes 60% down or from actual selling prices exclusive 40% down.
You were able to get 15% discount on prices before through negotiation or looking around, 5% was fees

Example you will understand, in 2006 sold my 2E lake views spring I sold at net 2.7 M, I was advertised at 3.3 Inclusive. They got me down by around 0.45 on price, the rest was fees

Now advertised prices are pretty much based on people want including fees.

Though some sellers are still in the clouds, or really don't want to sell and an agency fisishing for buyers.


----------



## 234sale

You are right about the UK. Actual selling Prices based on previous actual selling prices are down 25%, 
But close to 40% on adverisied prices.

I will base it on a personal senario
http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=RH12+2EE
you will find them on Rightmove under RH12 2EE postcode

Intially on for £220,000
Now I offered £125,000, the agent sold it to a ftb with parental help for £150,000

History
1 31/10/2008 £151,000 Ter. L No Map 1, The Gables, Wimblehurst Road, Horsham, West Sussex, RH12 2EE Properties for sale near RH12 2EE 
2 20/06/2008 £193,000 Ter. L No Map 25, The Gables, Wimblehurst Road, Horsham, West Sussex, RH12 2EE Properties for sale near RH12 2EE 
3 05/07/2007 £199,950 Flat L No Map 23, The Gables, Wimblehurst Road, Horsham, West Sussex, RH12 2EE Properties for sale near RH12 2EE 
4 27/04/2007 £194,950 Flat L No Map 3, The Gables, Wimblehurst Road, Horsham, West Sussex, RH12 2EE Properties for sale near RH12 2EE 
5 03/04/2007 £190,000 Ter. L No Map 16, The Gables, Wimblehurst Road, Horsham, West Sussex, RH12 2EE Properties for sale near RH12 2EE 


Now advertised prices have increased here from £160,000 to £172,000 and £182,500
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property...ropertyType=&newHome=&auction=false&x=83&y=14

But if you have the property valued, it will only be worth £140,000. 
I know this because I had one valued.

Now I could give you many other specific examples, but house price in the UK will go through a 8 year decline. Banks andthe Goverment are doing what they can to keep the ship a float. Dubai on the other hand just let prices reset. Because the majority of buyers where cash buyers in off plan property.

Back to those examples, I think they have been on the market now for over 6 month..


----------



## 234sale

http://www.moneyweek.com/investment...s-house-prices-will-plunge-further-43827.aspx

Five reasons UK house prices will plunge. Jun 05, 2009


----------



## sidxb

Wannaberich said:


> 1/House prices in the UK 'corrected'by about 25%.
> In fact Halifax and Nationwide just reported prices went up.
> Dubais prices 'crashed'by 60% plus no-one can say if the bottom has been reached.
> 2/You say banks are lending yet all I read is that they arent.
> 3/Check with companies like Nakheel to see how many people have lost their jobs.Read the recent report posted here by a removal company on how busy they are with people leaving Dubai.
> 4/I am not in Dubai,and?I know whats going on.Thats the beauty of the internet.
> 5/You are in denial,I'm not.I have an interest in Dubai getting back on its feet and doing well yet the facts are there.It just amuses me when people print negative stuff on the UK when Dubai isnt exactly all roses.


1) Read HSBC report and they said house prices went up in Dubai as well. 
2) I told you first hand info. If you dont agree, its upto you. You can double check on Mashreqbank , ADCB , First Gulf Bank and I am 100 % sure mashreq is giving 80 % finance to residents ( non-nationals ).
3) Check with Emaar , they employed 1000's for there downtown projects ( including Dubai Mall ). Some of the people fired by Nakheel were anyways on contract. On the whole I agree , there are not many job oppertunities yet , but things are improving.
4) Beauty of internet that you can read and get the view in whatever way you wana get the view. You search for positive stuff you would find loads. You search for negativity about dubai and you would find loads. Furthermore I see majority around Dubai who appreciate the fact that rents are down to bearable level and cost of living has come down. Traffic on roads has improved since the infrastructure projects got a breather and a chance to catch up.
5) I have no reason to be in denial since I have property in UK and Dubai , I only want to say that Dubai is passing through a CYCLE which is a reality in every market. No market can keep going up without downward ( correction ) cycles. Thats exactly whats happening in Dubai. Infact it gave them a chance to correct there legal system / complete infrastructure projects etc etc . Its Just a cycle , and there are fundamentals due to which Dubai will come out of this downward cycle soon.


----------



## Wannaberich

sidxb said:


> 1) Traffic on roads has improved since the infrastructure projects got a breather and a chance to catch up.
> .


Errr,traffic on roads has improved cos everyones gone home !
If Dubai has improved then great,not that I've read much to support that.
I dont doubt Dubai has a great future.I hope so for my wallets sake.Like I said before,its ironic that people living in Dubai are criticising the UKs financial situation considering its own predicatment.


----------



## Wannaberich

At least some good news here.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Markets/10319936.html


----------



## Mistermark

I agree that UK residential property has further to fall. In addition to the two reasons given in the article, there are two more I'd like to mention:

1. Repossessions. So far there have been relatively few given the severity of the recession. This is because interest rates are so low and many people are on mortgage deals agreed in the boom which are only slightly above base. The small, gradual shock will happen as these people move onto standard variable rates that are a big margin above base, due to the uncompetitive nature of the lending market currently. The big shock will follow when the banks all decide their balance sheets are clean and, with all the money sloshing around due to quantitative easing, coming on top of the ending of the VAT cut, interest rates rise quite fast.

This increase in supply of distress-priced properties will remove the factor behind the current slight upswing in prices, namely the dramatic shortage of properties for sale. Few people want to sell their homes at a loss, and some can't afford to do so because either they would be in negative equity and don't have the cash to make up the shortfall or they'd have to put down more cash against their new home than is left in their current one (remembering that lending criteria have tightened up, even for someone sticking with their current lender), which is why there's a shortage of supply and many owner-occupier homes are on the market at inflated prices.

2. Rental yields. I'm forever getting emails from companies specialising in supposedly 'below market value' UK properties. They promise yields of 7-8%, sometimes as much as 11-12%. In the main, they're absolutely right - but only if you compare today's selling price to the rental yield the units could have achieved 18-24 months ago. At today's rates, including void periods (which have increased, due to the level of oversupply), in the main they're yielding 4-5%.

Admittedly, this is pretty much the cost of capital - most BTL loans are around 4.5%. However, it doesn't compare to the long-run average cost of capital, which is around 6.5-7%. I have a tidy pile of Sterling that's itching to be spent on UK property, but I've told myself I'm not spending unless the yield is 7%. For that to happen the rent has to go up by perhaps 20-25% (when people are losing their jobs?) or prices have to fall further.


----------



## Wannaberich

Tangible signs of UAE recovery by 'end of the year' 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first tangible signs of economic recovery in the UAE will be witnessed towards the end of the year and the current positive indicators of recovering markets, high oil prices and reports of a possible bottoming out should be met with caution, say economists and industry leaders.
With local markets on the upswing, oil floating in the high $60s and the real estate market witnessing few sales, public perception that the economy may have seen the worst of this global recession is premature, they said.

The full effects of several measures governments and central banks have taken to mitigate the crisis are yet to be seen and felt, meaning uncertain times remain.

"I see the UAE economy bottoming by the end of 2009 with weak recovery thereafter in L-shaped scenario not 'U' or 'V'-shaped," Dr Eckart Woertz, Programme Manager, Economics, at the Gulf Research Centre, told Sole Business.

"In my view, the gross domestic product (GDP) will be between zero and one per cent for 2009.
"The global situation is slightly improving but it's still too early to tell. We might see some hiccups going forward," said Woertz.

"The global economy, which plays a major role in how our economy performs, could face massive inflation due to the ongoing monetary expansion or prolonged recession without it. So either way we are facing tough times. One must understand that this is a serious structural crisis. The economists who feel this is just a cyclical crisis are not on the right track, and all this talk of green shoots is premature," said Woertz.

The bottoming out of the real estate market after widespread distressed selling would be the key catalyst to the economy's upswing, he added.

In a report released this week, HSBC said: "The distressed stock is gradually clearing due to renewed interest as well as some sellers re-pricing, pulling their properties off the market, or putting them up for lease."

HSBC indicated the real estate market in the UAE was beginning to bottom out as prices stabilised, but warned that values could still fall further as more property comes onto the market.

Andrew Chambers, Managing Director of Asteco, however, put aside the notion of the current market reaching its bottom. "We will see the bottom and then recover in the last quarter of this year because the summer is traditionally slow even in a booming market," he said.

"The last quarter is the real deal because by then we should see a lot more mortgages and loans happening. Very few have qualified for mortgages today. It will never get back to last year's level, but the market needs more loans given, and the loan to value ratio still needs to improve," said Chambers, pictured right.

Property firm Asteco has begun recording single digit sales over the past few weeks, which, though pale in comparison to the two dozen weekly sales the firm recorded last year, is a sign of slight movement.

"In the last six weeks we started to see people putting offers on property because they believe the market is at its bottom," said Chambers.

"We have seen more interest now. People are accepting current prices as fair value. But there have only been a few sales. This is obviously better than March this year, when nothing sold. So the handful of sales we are recording now is still a better situation.

Current Asteco data for Dubai shows increasing offers for villas on The Palm Jumeirah, studios and one-bedroom apartments in Discovery Gardens and completed units at Dubai Marina.
The H?SBC report states agreed prices in the UAE rose four per cent month-on-month in April and five per cent in May, but were still 23 per cent down from its peak in September 2008.
Advertised prices in Dubai rose three per cent month-on-month in April and fell one per cent in May, while prices in Abu Dhabi were up two per cent and seven per cent for both months respectively.

Residential real estate prices in Dubai fell an average 41 per cent in the first three months of the year, according to data from property consultants Colliers.

Average prices for apartments in Abu Dhabi have fallen by 10 per cent since the end of the first quarter, while villa prices remained stable, property consultancy Landmark Advisory said earlier this week.

"In the UAE, the real estate situation still has its problems, especially now as summer time is approaching. Since it plays a crucial role in the country's economy, no recovery is possible without real estate healing first," said Dr Woertz.

Oil prices, another crucial factor to economic growth in the region, played favourably this week, peaking above $69 (Dh253) this week, before returning to $66.92 yesterday.
Citing reasons for rising oil prices, Tom Bentz, a senior energy analyst at BNP Paribas Commodity Futures Inc said: "This is all about recovery expectations. It looks like manufacturing is recovering in a number of countries, which is feeding into the belief that the worst is behind us. It doesn't hurt that the dollar is at the lowest level of the year."

"We're certainly on our way to $70, if not $75," said Stephen Schork, President of Schork Group. "That seems to be the number everyone is talking about. Given the technical momentum in this market, you cannot bet against it and step in front of this train."

Woertz said: "The current oil prices are helpful for the UAE economy. In my opinion, the prices are right and pretty well calculated because of tight supply scenarios going forward. So even in these recessionary times, it can perform well."

Meanwhile, annual inflation in the UAE slowed to 1.9 per cent in April and prices dropped between January and April led by the housing price slump. Inflation rates have decelerated quickly in the second-largest Arab economy since hitting a 20-year peak of 12.3 per cent in 2008, Ministry of Economy data showed.

"This gives us a good sense that for the year as a whole you could have deflation, and it is being driven by a sharp fall in rents," said Giyas Gokkent, chief economist at National Bank of Abu Dhabi.

"Rental increases have been the key driver of inflation in the UAE," said Monica Malik, regional economist at EFG-Hermes, which expects rental prices to fall between 20 and 50 per cent this year compared with a rise of 21 per cent in 2008.

The Ministry's data stayed true to the International Monetary Fund's (IMF) April forecast that the UAE would record one of the lowest inflation rates in the GCC at around two per cent.
IMF figures in its World Economic Outlook showed the combined inflation rate of the Middle East oil exporters would recede to around 8.8 per cent in 2009 from 10.3 per cent in 2008. "For the region as a whole, inflation pressures are projected to subside quickly, owing to lower commodity prices, rents, and economic activity," the IMF said. (With input from agencies)


----------



## Mistermark

I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking many of the recovery-based stories run by the UAE media are lies from start to finish. This one claims Dubai's GDP will grow by 0-1 percent this year. A year when maybe a quarter of all ex-pat workers have gone home, and off-plan property launches have gone from several per day to none at all.

My guess is that GDP is actually down 15-20 percent this year.


----------



## Get Smart

Mistermark said:


> I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking many of the recovery-based stories run by the UAE media are lies from start to finish. This one claims Dubai's GDP will grow by 0-1 percent this year. A year when maybe a quarter of all ex-pat workers have gone home, and off-plan property launches have gone from several per day to none at all.
> 
> My guess is that GDP is actually down 15-20 percent this year.


more reason to emigrate to democratic Canada (try India also :lol: ) and you will get free and decent journalism, excellent human rights and many more


----------



## HateTorch

smussuw said:


> It isnt about not accepting negativity, most of the forumers here know that i'll be the happiest here to see people leaving; however; I didn't see anything to convince me about anything being said so until then it would still be considered bullshit to me.


I openly agree with you on this point. 
But you should not be waiting for things to happen.

You, together with liked-minded individuals, should be raising this concern collectively to the Ruler. Tell him that ::
1) I want all poor people to leave. Doesn't matter if there's no one to build roads/sweep-floors/remove garnage etc. Tell him "I will do it".
2) I only want rich people. Once we have squeezed their cash/reserves or exhausted their usefullness, we can think of ways to "force" them out, eg create ridiculous laws that will piss them them off.
3) I want an ideal Dubai, back to where it once was. I want to be able to ride camels on the roads again ; I dont want cars that create all the pollutions.

Start a petition; create a user group; start a boycott etc to make your point.

I will be waiting for such time. :cheers:


----------



## Hanna

*Smuss*



HateTorch said:


> I openly agree with you on this point.
> But you should not be waiting for things to happen.
> 
> You, together with liked-minded individuals, should be raising this concern collectively to the Ruler. Tell him that ::
> 1) I want all poor people to leave. Doesn't matter if there's no one to build roads/sweep-floors/remove garnage etc. Tell him "I will do it".
> 2) I only want rich people. Once we have squeezed their cash/reserves or exhausted their usefullness, we can think of ways to "force" them out, eg create ridiculous laws that will piss them them off.
> 3) I want an ideal Dubai, back to where it once was. I want to be able to ride camels on the roads again ; I dont want cars that create all the pollutions.
> 
> Start a petition; create a user group; start a boycott etc to make your point.
> 
> I will be waiting for such time. :cheers:




I think we give the smuss to much leeway he say's he is in the police how do
we know that for sure he might be a ************. if so he could could join the elite camel traffic department and direct the traffic on Dubai's empty roads. :cheers:


Change the law to 1 week visa that will do the trick double quick time !


----------



## smussuw

HateTorch said:


> I openly agree with you on this point.
> But you should not be waiting for things to happen.
> 
> You, together with liked-minded individuals, should be raising this concern collectively to the Ruler. Tell him that ::
> 1) I want all poor people to leave. Doesn't matter if there's no one to build roads/sweep-floors/remove garnage etc. Tell him "I will do it".
> 2) I only want rich people. Once we have squeezed their cash/reserves or exhausted their usefullness, we can think of ways to "force" them out, eg create ridiculous laws that will piss them them off.
> 3) I want an ideal Dubai, back to where it once was. I want to be able to ride camels on the roads again ; I dont want cars that create all the pollutions.
> 
> Start a petition; create a user group; start a boycott etc to make your point.
> 
> I will be waiting for such time. :cheers:


Who said we don't want people to do the work and serve us? :dunno:


----------



## dubaiprojects

*studio required*

I am looking to buy a studio in Dubai marina for max 300-400K but it has to be nice location overlooking the sea and some top floors and in a newly built building.

Please guide me.
Cheers


----------



## Imre

dubaiprojects said:


> I am looking to buy a studio in Dubai marina for max 300-400K but it has to be nice location overlooking the sea and some top floors and in a newly built building.
> 
> Please guide me.
> Cheers


this is just a dream, this property doesnt exist in Dubai Marina.


----------



## 234sale

Maybe International City / Discovery Gardens, no way the Marina, unless it was at the back next to the Power Station.. but even still, impossible.


----------



## Spurs

Possibly in Marina Diamond projects, but the views would not be great and they are all approx G+12


----------



## Imre

Spurs said:


> Possibly in Marina Diamond projects, but the views would not be great and they are all approx G+12


he wants:

"nice location overlooking the sea and some top floors and in a newly built building"

cheapest MD's studios around 550-600K


----------



## Richard Head

dubaiprojects said:


> I am looking to buy a studio in Dubai marina for max 300-400K but it has to be nice location overlooking the sea and some top floors and in a newly built building.
> 
> Please guide me.
> Cheers


1) Rent a time machine

2) Set the dial to 2003

3) Press the "GO" button.

Sorted.


----------



## Naz UK

Or just wait another 6-12 months . :runaway:


----------



## 234sale

I would of signed up to 10 contracts on rent to buy in the greens,,, Think of all that money people made there. 

Many of early birds made a killing.. Absoulte bundles of cash..


----------



## worried investor

hnolease join Canal Residence West - Spanish Towers thread


----------



## worried investor

:bash:


Canal Sand Investor said:


> I also have an Apartment in Spanish as well and have seen nothing but empty promises until now. I agree we should do something about it.
> 
> Thanks


Please join Canal residence west - Spanish Tower thread


----------



## FARIBA

*thanks Rob*

I JUST CALLED MEMON FEW DAY'S AGO AND THEY SAID THE SAME THING THAT THEY HAVE A COTRACTOR FOR CT4 BUT I CAN'T TAKE THEIR WORD THEY HAVE TO WRITE IT DOWN ON THEIR WEB SITE. BY THE WAY HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW PIC FOR CT4 IT'S A JOKE IS THE EXACT PIC FROME LAST YEAR. :lol:


----------



## MANUTD

dubaiprojects said:


> I am looking to buy a studio in Dubai marina for max 300-400K but it has to be nice location overlooking the sea and some top floors and in a newly built building.
> 
> Please guide me.
> Cheers


R U NAZ in disguise ?


----------



## coalmine

Imre said:


> this is just a dream, this property doesnt exist in Dubai Marina.


Why not Imre what about a studio in the Marina Diamonds building? they must be close or near to this price 300 to 400k if not I think they will very soon what do you guys think?


----------



## coalmine

Naz UK said:


> Or just wait another 6-12 months . :runaway:


I agree


----------



## MANUTD

coalmine said:


> I agree


http://www.gnads4u.com/doc.html?_a=view&id=5719407
studio in MD 550k aed hardly a high floor/seaview ?


----------



## dubaiprojects

dubaiprojects said:


> I am looking to buy a studio in Dubai marina for max 300-400K but it has to be nice location overlooking the sea and some top floors and in a newly built building.
> 
> Please guide me.
> Cheers


I thought I would be able to find such a property keeping in mind prevailing financial crises. My objective is not for investment but I would like a place to use for vacation. Since dubai is near it makes sense. I have thought about Malaysia as well and I could get a 2 bed in 300K but thats like 9 hrs flight time.

I saw some ads in JLT around that price but I would rather prefer Marina.
http://www.alineah.com/apartment/17548/detail.htm


By the way a Studio is usually around 500 SQFT and at 400K, it comes to around 880K psft which is not a bad price. I know people who bought these properties must have paid a lot but realistic price should be 500-800K psft in dubai marina, istnt it? So its a monopoly of the buyers who are not willing to lower their demand, I guess sooner or later it will happen.

Cheers


----------



## Rob Timpie

FARIBA said:


> I JUST CALLED MEMON FEW DAY'S AGO AND THEY SAID THE SAME THING THAT THEY HAVE A COTRACTOR FOR CT4 BUT I CAN'T TAKE THEIR WORD THEY HAVE TO WRITE IT DOWN ON THEIR WEB SITE. BY THE WAY HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW PIC FOR CT4 IT'S A JOKE IS THE EXACT PIC FROME LAST YEAR. :lol:



Yes, without a contractor building the thing not a lot will change on the pictures :lol: 
But it's gonna be the best tower on the best spot 
(have 2 apartments)


----------



## MikeMuz

Well things have maybe slowed right down on some of the constructions in DSC but I believe that Memon have got it covered.
After the meeting I had with them last month things are looking pretty positive.! 
I've invested in CT2 and already paid 100% for an apt ! completion was spose to be 2008 but now not till 2010. 
I still believe it will be worth the wait..!!!!!!!


----------



## Freestyler

Monument said:


> Green Shoots, Green Shoots, lots of lovely green shoots.


have wheatgrass juice :banana:


----------



## True Blue

Swings and Roundabouts.

Any recovery will be dampened by weakening dollar! So any apparent increases will be offset by a weakening dirham if you are planning to repatriate your investments to the UK.


----------



## bizzybonita

Freestyler said:


> have wheatgrass juice :banana:


How about Green Apple Berbekan :banana: !


----------



## bizzybonita

Next court hearing in Mizin case on June 21 

on Wednesday, June 10, 2009

The Dubai Criminal Court has postponed hearings to June 21 in a case related to misdemeanours in Mizin Real Estate Company.

The court, presided over by Justice Saeed Bargouth, decided to postpone the hearing in response to requests by the lawyers of the two defendants so that the testimonies of Lieutenant Hamad Bousim, a Dubai Police officer assigned to investigate the case, and Mizin's Sales Manager Sabrin, could be heard again.

The two defendants are Mizin's former UAE national CEO, SH, and Lebanese businessman JH. They are being represented by Sameer Jaafar and Ali Al Shamsi.

The Dubai Public Prosecution's three main charges against SH are: accepting illegal gifts, harming the company's general interests, and facilitating the transfer of company funds to an unauthorised person.

The many charges against JH include illegally offering gifts to SH, obtaining unauthorised discounts on properties and lands through illegal agreements with the company, and harming the company's general interests through such agreements.

The Dubai Public Prosecution had heard five testimonies, including one by Lieutenant Bousim, who investigated the case and obtained information that financial and administrative violations had occurred.

He said SH allegedly exploited his position as the company's CEO and gave special facilities to JH, extended the period of payment settlement without additional cost, and sold to him properties with discounts of up to 30 per cent while other buyers got only 10 per cent discounts. Also, JH allegedly made a down payment of 10 per cent, while the company's policy stipulated that the down payment should not be less than 15 per cent.

JH allegedly bought 21 flats from Mizin with special facilities. And in exchange, JH's firm Nibras Company, allegedly paid the debts of Burqab Company for prefabricated houses, owned by SH. Also, Jescom Company, owned by JH, allegedly paid some Dh1 million to Burqab in exchange for no real work. Nibras also allegedly did free maintenance work in the houses of SH's father. Sabrin testified that JH bought seven plots of land and three buildings in Mizin's Remraam project. She said JH allegedly violated the conditions of sale, and the usual penalties were not applied on him. SH allegedly once cancelled a confiscation decision, she said.

Because of JH's alleged payment delays and special facilities, Mizin Real Estate is said to have incurred losses of Dh22m.


----------



## Imre

*Dubai property on growth path *

By Saifur Rahman, Business Editor
Published: June 09, 2009, 23:31


Dubai: Dubai's property market appears to be returning to a growth path, after having 'bottomed out', major real estate players and market analysts believe.

"As the asset values are becoming attractive, there is a renewed interest among overseas investors in Dubai's properties," Peter Riddoch, chief executive of Damac Properties, told Gulf News.

"The market is showing early signs of bottoming out. However, it is too early to be absolutely sure."

Dubai's property market, the main driver of the Emirate's economic growth for over five years, faced a sharp decline last year due to a sudden outflow of a large pool of cash that nearly eliminated the speculators from the market. 

One tangible sign of a marked return of investor confidence in the region is the number and success of recent bond issues, both by corporates and sovereigns, Standard Chartered Bank said in its latest report.

"Indeed, only a few weeks back, it would have been difficult to imagine that so much debt could be absorbed by the markets. Dubai in particular saw its credit default swap (CDS) spreads widen to around the 1,000 basis points (bps) mark in February," the report said.

This has allowed market players to tap the bond market at levels that were unthinkable until recently. In April, Abu Dhabi issued $3 billion (Dh11 billion) of bonds with a 4-per cent coupon on the 5-year tenor, and the subscription was a huge success. 

According to the HSBC, agreed prices in Dubai's real estate market went up 4 per cent in April and 5 per cent in May.

"The end of the freefall is encouraging for Dubai [a similar pattern has been observed in Abu Dhabi], as it had a direct negative impact on the banking sector via higher defaults and non-performing loans," the report said.

"After a fall of 30-40 per cent [depending on the indictor chosen], the first signs of stabilisation in Dubai's real-estate sector have appeared, taking observers by surprise since further declines were expected. Some caution is warranted, as there are still question marks surrounding population flows in the coming months," it said.

"There is a slight increase in sales volume. Over the last two months, we have managed to push the stocks for those properties getting ready," Abid Junaid, executive director of ETA-Star Properties, told Gulf News on Tuesday.

"The market is definitely bottoming out and slowly moving towards the growth path. However, before the summer lull sets in, we expect some more sales to happen this month."

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10321437.html


----------



## iced

*no recovery*

Uk prices will continue to fall further, just give it a few more months as the job losses kick in. UAE prices may stablise but as the supply comes in they will not increase further or greater than nominal increases. 

After a 50% fall there will be some moves up but nothing has really changed this trend.


----------



## High Times

What we are seeing here is a degree of sencibility creeping back to the market. The massive 50% -70% reductions that have been banded around was an over reaction to negative sentiment and a few people would have been caught up in this by selling at over discounted prices.

Now that the shock of the bubble bursting has been around for a few months peope have realised that the option to hold is more effective.

We have seen this with stocks worldwide and stock performance is always a precursur to property and real economic activity.

As an example the FTSE 100 was at 6500 points back in January 2008. Then all hell broke loose and it fell to 3600 twice between Nov 2008 and March 2009. It now sits around 4500 which is about fair value considering the mess the UK and global economy is in right now. In a year or so it will be back to around 5500 - 6000 points.

My point here is that when things start to go wrong human nature has a habbit of over reacting which makes things look even worse than they are and so a vicious circle begins.

I thing we are entering the realisation phase now which is where people begin to accept what has happened and deal with it. It doesnt mean that real estate values are going to jump up any time soon, it just means that people will stop acting irrationaly, and some sound fundamentals will begin to determine asset values again.


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> My point here is that when things start to go wrong human nature has a habbit of over reacting which makes things look even worse than they are and so a vicious circle begins.


This can work both ways I believe but to a lesser extent,i.e,people see the market bottoming out,even the odd report of prices even rising as we've read already.This prompts them to rush into buying before prices start to shoot up again which in turn drags all prices up as buyers flood the market and panic buy(assuming loans are easier to obtain).
Not enough notice is given to the real estate companies who have had alot to do with falling prices.Sherwoods are by far the worst for this,refusing to accept properties for listing unless you agreed to their valuations even though way below the market average.


----------



## NeilP

Stabilisation and a mature housing market. Is that really ever possible in Dubai? That requires permanent resident workers and a steady population. Steady growth in prices of say 5-10% a year. Reports showing 4% followed by 5% would suggest annual rates back to 50% which is just not going to happen and is not what we need to happen ever again. It is really important that we see workers returning not just investors again.


----------



## Spurs

Off subject but when do you think that the UK Base rate will increase from 0.5%?


----------



## Freestyler

Spurs said:


> Off subject but when do you think that the UK Base rate will increase from 0.5%?


not less than a year imo


----------



## paul66

True Blue said:


> Swings and Roundabouts.
> 
> Any recovery will be dampened by weakening dollar! So any apparent increases will be offset by a weakening dirham if you are planning to repatriate your investments to the UK.


Erm.. hello!! what about thinking outside the box: when an economy is booming, dollar is weak, people buy dollar as a safe haven, they dont need it when things are running smoothly.

Cheap dollar = more dhirhams for your Pound or Euro where most investors are from. This means more investment into Dubai and UAE! :banana:

:cheers:


----------



## paul66

iced said:


> Uk prices will continue to fall further, just give it a few more months as the job losses kick in. UAE prices may stablise but as the supply comes in they will not increase further or greater than nominal increases.
> 
> After a 50% fall there will be some moves up but nothing has really changed this trend.


You mean you hope prices will continue to fall so you can afford to buy even cheaper! hno:


----------



## paul66

Spurs said:


> Off subject but when do you think that the UK Base rate will increase from 0.5%?


As an investment analyst, I am saying Feb-Apr 2010. but for the whole of next year the base rate will not be above 2% and no more than 3% in 2011.

Unless of course we have new problems/or an explosive growth!

Also the pound is to continue to remain strong going forward as the dollar weakens. Until the end of this year should trade in the range of 1.55 - 1.75.

Regards,
Paul


----------



## Mistermark

High Times said:


> Iv'e been telling you lot this for months now. :bash:
> 
> I guess you can take a horse to water, but you cant make it drink.


I normally agree with HT about most things, and he certainly called the Dubai property market right. But I'm still unsure about UK property.

Since January I've been trying to acquire a portfolio of UK buy-to-lets. My only criterion is that the net rental yield should be broadly in line with the long-term average, which is 6-7%. 

Obviously this is a lot more than the sums people were accepting at the peak, when (in my view) naive investors were happy to buy at prices that resulted in yields of 3-4%, and often less in central-ish London, and if they were borrowing they were prepared to subsidise the tenants' lifestyles by making up the difference between the rent and the monthly mortgage payments because they believed they'd gain on the capital appreciation. This strategy relied on there being a 'greater fool' who would be prepared to pay an even greater premium to acquire a fundamentally over-valued asset down the line. But 6-7% seems to me around the long-term average cost of capital, so ought to be achievable. And when I first got into BTL, with studios and 1-beds in the City fringes that I let to graduates getting their first jobs in the City and London law firms in the mid-1990s, I was achieving close to double this figure.

Since beginning my search what I've found is so-called 'below market value' intermediaries promising me yields of up to 11% on new-builds and resales, but on the basis of what the properties might - on a very good day - have achieved in the boom, and without deducting letting agent's charges, void periods, ground rent and service charges. Actual yields of most of the properties I've been offered are 4-5%. I've also been offered resales, often 'distressed', with promises of high yields, but by the time you include the refurb cost, again you're below 5%.

Given the broken state of the banking system I think it'll be a while before we see tracker mortgages at 0.1% above base and other crazy offers like that, so I see the cost of capital currently as around 4.5% and have to anticipate it returning to the long-run average within a couple of years. Will rents rise substantially in that period? Given that unemployment increases for typically a year after a recession ends (probably Q4), I doubt it.

So for these reasons, while I accept some ultra-distressed new builds that were sold for cashflow purposes late last year represent amazing deals we're not likely to see repeated soon (lack of supply again) I'm still not sure that the market has truly hit bottom.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ If have some BTL 2 bed houses in UK which are achieving between 6 to 7 percent yield now with good long term tennants in place. If you want to buy one of me let me know.  They are providing me with a very good profit (especially since my mortgages are at 0.5%) but I could do with the capital.


----------



## Ali_Syed

to the worried_investor,
i dont think the project will be cancelled. its an official sports city project. the deal you have of 20% off, is the best i have heard so far in this financial crisis! i will take it and run.

investing in offplan property comes with its risks. you buying at the top of the market was one of it. it is a shame that we had a financial crisis, hence you will loose on your apartment to start with. but look at a longer term view. if you keep it for atleast 5 to 7 years you shall not lose.


----------



## pisandre

Ali_Syed said:


> to the worried_investor,
> i dont think the project will be cancelled. its an official sports city project. the deal you have of 20% off, is the best i have heard so far in this financial crisis! i will take it and run.
> 
> investing in offplan property comes with its risks. you buying at the top of the market was one of it. it is a shame that we had a financial crisis, hence you will loose on your apartment to start with. but look at a longer term view. if you keep it for atleast 5 to 7 years you shall not lose.


Ali,

Why 5 to 7 years? Could you give us a concrete example and do the maths for us (rental per year, OP, SP?).

Thanks.


----------



## Mistermark

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ If have some BTL 2 bed houses in UK which are achieving between 6 to 7 percent yield now with good long term tennants in place. If you want to buy one of me let me know.  They are providing me with a very good profit (especially since my mortgages are at 0.5%) but I could do with the capital.


I'd be interested in knowing more - please PM me. One concern I do have with tenanted units is that sometimes if the tenants go it can be hard to replace them with ones paying the same rent, if rents have fallen, but if they're holding up or growing then that's all good.


----------



## 234sale

NHS will face £15bn budget shortfall due to effects of recession managers warn 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...ue-to-effects-of-recession-managers-warn.html

I think the real state of the economy being hidden. What is worse is we have a general election soon, when that is over, some real changes have to happen, no one will be scared to increase Tax as they will have 5 years till the next election.

The debt black hole still exists, it hasn't been fixed. You can try and bend the laws of physics on paper, but we are standing on an event horizon.


----------



## paul66

*Global Property Prices*

Found this from an very good informative web site: http://www.globalpropertyguide.com










regards,
Paul


----------



## Mistermark

234sale said:


> NHS will face £15bn budget shortfall due to effects of recession managers warn
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...ue-to-effects-of-recession-managers-warn.html
> 
> I think the real state of the economy being hidden. What is worse is we have a general election soon, when that is over, some real changes have to happen, no one will be scared to increase Tax as they will have 5 years till the next election.
> 
> The debt black hole still exists, it hasn't been fixed. You can try and bend the laws of physics on paper, but we are standing on an event horizon.


I agree. IMHO Brown may well now survive, which means the election will be in May 2010. Cameron will put more flesh on the bones by then but the basics will be as leaked this morning - NHS, schools and overseas aid frozen, the rest cut by 10 percent. The model of Canada's debt reduction programme in the 1980s will be followed. 

Bin layers of public sector management, quangos, people with 'diversity', 'sustainability' and 'stakeholders' in their job descriptions, get the elective unemployed and those pretending to be ill back on their feet (or starve them out), cancel expensive and illiberal State measures (identity cards, cameras in wheelie bins), end public sector final salary pensions, sprinkle a little public money to facilitate ground-up voluntary community-based initiatives, give tax breaks to encourage innovation (intellectual property is the future IMO), saving and self-reliance, phase out social housing but provide temporary rent support, give tax breaks for those who choose not to burden the state (health, education etc). Oh, and string up that self-righteous nobody Shami Chakrabarti.


----------



## DubaiFive0

Mistermark said:


> I agree. IMHO Brown may well now survive, which means the election will be in May 2010. Cameron will put more flesh on the bones by then but the basics will be as leaked this morning - NHS, schools and overseas aid frozen, the rest cut by 10 percent. The model of Canada's debt reduction programme in the 1980s will be followed.
> 
> Bin layers of public sector management, quangos, people with 'diversity', 'sustainability' and 'stakeholders' in their job descriptions, get the elective unemployed and those pretending to be ill back on their feet (or starve them out), cancel expensive and illiberal State measures (identity cards, cameras in wheelie bins), end public sector final salary pensions, sprinkle a little public money to facilitate ground-up voluntary community-based initiatives, give tax breaks to encourage innovation (intellectual property is the future IMO), saving and self-reliance, phase out social housing but provide temporary rent support, give tax breaks for those who choose not to burden the state (health, education etc). Oh, and string up that self-righteous nobody Shami Chakrabarti.


Agreed with you right up to the end and would have voted for you if you were my local councilor, but whats poor Shami done apart from speaking out against draconian laws? Unless your a supporter of a police state \ or the new MEP for the North West region in which case I understand.


----------



## carpetking

OK,forget UAE here is an property offer from good old Germany 

www.rothenbaum-palais.de Hamburg

click "Grundrisse" but attention,the price is in Euro :lol:


----------



## Mistermark

DubaiFive0 said:


> Agreed with you right up to the end and would have voted for you if you were my local councilor, but whats poor Shami done apart from speaking out against draconian laws? Unless your a supporter of a police state \ or the new MEP for the North West region in which case I understand.


It's not her policies I despise but the preachy nature of the woman. That and the utter lack of a sense of humour.


----------



## MANUTD

paul66 said:


> As an investment analyst, I am saying Feb-Apr 2010. but for the whole of next year the base rate will not be above 2% and no more than 3% in 2011.
> 
> Unless of course we have new problems/or an explosive growth!
> 
> Also the pound is to continue to remain strong going forward as the dollar weakens. Until the end of this year should trade in the range of 1.55 - 1.75.
> 
> Regards,
> Paul


Much what I thought --- shan't fix rates now then 

£ vs $ you covered yourself on with a big spread i would go for $1.80 by year end and Barrel of oil at $85 ?
Will massively benefit UAE - looking good for 2010


----------



## Freestyler

MANUTD said:


> Much what I thought --- shan't fix rates now then
> 
> £ vs $ you covered yourself on with a big spread i would go for $1.80 by year end and Barrel of oil at $85 ?
> Will massively benefit UAE - looking good for 2010


USD will go down more since both Russia and China have stated they are moving away from US bonds. It will not happen overnight but in 6 months they will start trim US bonds and treasuries holdings.


----------



## Rob Timpie

So do I Mike, I'm sure we'll get paid for our patience... :banana:


----------



## FARIBA

*HI ROB*

I hope you and mike are right about this place because i like it as well but do you guy's think in two or three years the real easte in dubai will go back to normal i'm not talking about before when the prices were crazy high ( OF COURSE I DON'T MIND THAT  ) i just hope we don't lose money other than that im looking forward to have my small studio in ct4:laugh:


----------



## iced

paul66 said:


> You mean you hope prices will continue to fall so you can afford to buy even cheaper! hno:


Hope is not part of my investment criteria. Always want to buy low andl sell high, easier said than done. However whatever i say want prices will not appreciate rapidly in the next few months. Increasing supply, summer and a global recession are the main reasons along with lack of liquidity.

I also think that HSBC reports of 4 and 5% monthly increases are greatly exaggerated.


----------



## Imre

*Emaar denies issuing credit notes *

By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: June 10, 2009, 23:16


Dubai: Emaar continues to deny issuing credit notes for projects that have either been cancelled or delayed, despite investors trading such notes online.

Investors say Emaar is offering credit-notes for projects such as Burj Park V, Grand Boulevard and Claren 2.

"Emaar refer to it as a transfer of property but it acts as a credit note. You can also physically take a credit note which has to be used within one year and in one single payment," one investor told Gulf News on condition of anonymity. 

Investors can use the credit note as a down payment on a new unit or as payment on an existing Emaar unit. Investors are trying to trade their Emaar credit notes on local property portals and chatrooms. 

A credit note is defined in business circles as "a monetary instrument issued by a seller that allows a buyer to purchase an item &from that seller at a future date".

An investor can then sell their credit note on to another party, at a heavily discounted rate. "Emaar is taking the deposits of off-plan buyers and effectively securitising them and giving them back to their owners& but if the situation doesn't get better and deteriorates, cash will run out and the absence of new projects will not allow Emaar to carry out their scheme," one investor wrote on a property portal.

Emad Al Farouq, senior legal counsel at Dubai Land Department, declined to comment when contacted by Gulf News except to say he had "no idea how this works".

Emaar said they were currently offering several customer-friendly options including end-users having the option of transferring their purchases from projects. But officials at Emaar said that they are not issuing credit notes.

"Emaar has not issued, or is planning, any document that will enable customers to transfer their payment to others," an Emaar Properties spokesperson said.

When contacted, Ahmad Al Matroushi, Emaar Properties' managing director for the UAE, did not give his reaction at the time of writing this report. *The company also stressed that it has not cancelled any projects.*

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10321771.html


----------



## DXBQuantum

why deny it,???? I have credit notes I can get hold of.... its such rubbish.

CREDIT NOTES DO EXIST AND ARE BEING SOLD LIKE PROPERTY AND TRADED AT THE MOMENT...


----------



## baba toto

FARIBA said:


> I hope you and mike are right about this place because i like it as well but do you guy's think in two or three years the real easte in dubai will go back to normal i'm not talking about before when the prices were crazy high ( OF COURSE I DON'T MIND THAT  ) i just hope we don't lose money other than that im looking forward to have my small studio in ct4:laugh:


But we've lost money already, in terms of rental income missed out since 2006/7. Assuming a completion date of 2010 (probably later...) thats a minimum of 4 years of rental income lost!! hno:

The obvious winners right now are ofcourse the estate agents! "by selling spades and not digging"! :bash:


----------



## worried investor

Ali_Syed said:


> to the worried_investor,
> i dont think the project will be cancelled. its an official sports city project. the deal you have of 20% off, is the best i have heard so far in this financial crisis! i will take it and run.
> 
> investing in offplan property comes with its risks. you buying at the top of the market was one of it. it is a shame that we had a financial crisis, hence you will loose on your apartment to start with. but look at a longer term view. if you keep it for atleast 5 to 7 years you shall not lose.


Dear Ali

Project cancellation has been done by many developers, hence this will not be the first case. Every developer realises that if construction was not awarded they stand to make a huge profit (more than 200%). Since things have changed drastically they are taking a view either to offer substantial discounts or simply to cancel the project. If it suits a number of investors I am there to support them.


----------



## amplesou

*"*

bla


----------



## Ali_Syed

dear pisandre,
i was making very conservative estimate of getting the return of around 2000 sqft sale price for CRW i.e. in 5 years time. it could be earlier, we will be happy for that!

worried_investor, how can developer make profit by cancelling the project? i dont understand. anyway, i dont want this to be cancelled. its already under construction. progress is good, and i want to see my apartment delivered asap. would love to spend the winter on that canal every year!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

a report by Deutsche Bank has predicted that property prices in the UAE could fall by a further 15% to 20%, fuelled by an exodus of expatriates and a glut of property, Bloomberg has reported. Although Dubai will be most affected the report notes that Abu Dhabi will not benefit from its housing shortage as residents will be eaasily able to commute from Dubai, which will be oversupplied.
http://www.ameinfo.com/200168.html

The number of vacant properties in Dubai could double from 15% currently to 30% by the end of 2010, according to UBS, Bloomberg has reported. UBS bases the estimates on new supply coming online and a reduction in population. UBS previously stated that it estimated that Dubai's population would fall by 8% in 2009 and a further 2% in 2010. 
http://www.ameinfo.com/200171.html


----------



## Mistermark

Dubai_Steve said:


> a report by Deutsche Bank has predicted that property prices in the UAE could fall by a further 15% to 20%, fuelled by an exodus of expatriates and a glut of property, Bloomberg has reported. Although Dubai will be most affected the report notes that Abu Dhabi will not benefit from its housing shortage as residents will be eaasily able to commute from Dubai, which will be oversupplied.
> http://www.ameinfo.com/200168.html
> 
> The number of vacant properties in Dubai could double from 15% currently to 30% by the end of 2010, according to UBS, Bloomberg has reported. UBS bases the estimates on new supply coming online and a reduction in population. UBS previously stated that it estimated that Dubai's population would fall by 8% in 2009 and a further 2% in 2010.
> http://www.ameinfo.com/200171.html


I think these reports are a lot more credible than those claiming the market has passed the bottom and is improving. I'm not aware of any developments in the Dubai economy that would indicate an increase in the number of ex-pat white collar workers (or an end to the decline), and until this changes, or there's a dramatic change of policy on residency visas for the retired and independently wealthy, I don't see why prices should rebound, because rents ought to keep falling.


----------



## 234sale

I also expect rents to fall throught 2009, by around another 10 - 20%.


Back to the UK

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t...ectors/banking_and_finance/article6474525.ece
Northern Rock, the Treasury would try to sell the £19.5 billion package of retail deposits separately from the £66.7 billion Northern Rock mortgage book. In this instance, the buyer of the mortgage business would have to assume the bad loans held by Northern Rock. 

Is the UK goverment giving up, before this takes them under with them?


----------



## Wannaberich

DaYFox said:


> I prebooked a night for the Grandopening (22.11.09). Costs 3500$/night.


Try Premier Inn for around $100.It might not be underwater but if you put a match up to the ceiling your'll set of the sprinkler system.


----------



## paul66

*UAE economy to start recovering from July 2009*

*UAE economy to start recovering next month on government support*

By Zaher Bitar, Staff Reporter (Gulf News)
Published: June 16, 2009, 23:44

Dubai: The UAE economy will start to rebound next month in a gradual recovery that could stretch into next year, a top government official said on Tuesday.

"The government's intervention and support in terms of monetary and economic policy will ensure a smooth recovery that will boost investment," Hamad Bu Amim, director-general of the Dubai Chamber of Commerce and Industry, told delegates at a seminar.

He believes that the government's liquidity injection is a step forward that will help the economy to recover by 2010.

His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, recently ordered a cut in government fees by 20 to 30 per cent.

Bu Amim said the Dubai Chamber strived to provide the business community with adequate market information to help overcome the current slowdown. This includes advisory services to help companies manage their businesses better.

Fahd Shah, an economic researcher at the Dubai Chamber, quoted from a survey and said business leaders were looking for policies and actions to make business conditions more favourable.

According to the survey these actions should address financial constraints and provide access to government services. These moves will also promote market efficiency and transparency, he added.

Ehsan Khoman, another researcher at Dubai Chamber, said inflation was set to fall this year, allowing authorities to focus entirely on stimulating economic activity and freeing credit markets.

Khoman said the fall in the country's output would only be limited. "The UAE's exposure to sub-prime toxic assets has been minimal relative to Europe and the United States," he said.

"Moreover, monetary policy response has been timely and impressive in scale with the UAE Central Bank cutting the repo rate to one per cent in January."


----------



## DubaiFive0

Wannaberich said:


> Try Premier Inn for around $100.It might not be underwater but if you put a match up to the ceiling your'll set of the sprinkler system.


Don't joke about that, its too painful! Apparently the sprinkler in my MD2 apartment failed and flooded the place. Tenant left a month early so I had to refund him a months rent (fair enough as long as he didn't set it off!). Agent told me I'm lucky he didn't sue me for his soggy briefs etc.

That was over 2 months ago, since then the place has been festering to the extent that it needs a new front door in addition to a paint job etc. I need to know:

1. If the maintenance fee normally covers building insurance and would it be applicable in this instance, as Diamond Investments have admonished all responsibility.

2. Can anyone recommend an insurance co. operating in Dubai?

(3. A good lawyer!?)

Flying off at the end of the week to hopefully sort the mess out.

Cheers

Side thought:
On the subject of fire alarms \ sprinklers if a fire is detected at what stage will they go off (thinking about all the false alarms that go off due to burnt toast etc.) and will it be confined to the area of the fire or go off in the entire building?


----------



## Dubaidog

Some good news on the banking front at long last.....:banana:

Effective July 1st HSBC are reducing interest rates by 1% on their Variable Mortgage Home Loan accounts. This decrease is long over due and the rates will still be far in excess of the rates charged by banks in the US. But it is one sign that liquidity is starting to return to the market.


----------



## montranieri

TODAY ON GULF NEWS: NO BAD. 550K for a 1Br 760sqft flat in Dubai Marina.
It means that International city can hope to sell the same only under 300K


For Sale: Dubai Marina, Marina Diamond 5 - 1 B/R Apt., 760 sq.ft., fully furnished on higher floor, 17th floor. AED 550K. Call Yelena 050-7705863. HOMELAND PROPERTIES LLC (Committed to Realty) - A Member of Dubai Property Society | Tel.: 04-3930400 | Agents: Bryan 050 7647996, Liz 050 4986426, Geeta 050 3791167, Yelena 050 7705863, Mac 050 7781982 & Omar 050 7277972 | Fax: 04-3931466 | E-mail: [email protected] | A Rais Hassan Saadi Group Company.







DaYFox said:


> Had a look for some more distress sales. And as Imre said before there are almost zero nowadays! Thats the only one I found on Expatriates:
> 
> 
> Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009
> 
> Category: Real Estate For Sale
> 
> Region: Dubai (Dubai)
> 
> Description: Dhs. 1,067 per sq. ft., Burj Dubai Down Town, The Lofts, 1 B/R Duplex Apt 4 Sale (Burj Dubai Down Town)
> Burj Dubai Down Town
> *The Lofts* by Emaar
> 1 Bedroom Apartment (Duplex)
> 1,324 Sq. Ft.
> Selling Price: AED 1,067 per sq. ft. (Original Price of 2005)
> 
> For more information, please call ........
> 
> Agents Excuse!
> 
> Amenities:
> Built in Wardrobes, Fully Equipped Kitchen, Covered Parking, Balcony, Central A/C & Heating, Balcony, Very close to Tallest Tower of the World, High End fitting and accessories, Gymnasium, Swimming Pool, Etc…


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## mackie1964

These deals do not exist. They just get you to call them and you know what happens after that.

You can rent these units at 75K/year despite the quality, that is 13 to 14% a bargain if you can get it at that price but I doubt it :cheers:




montranieri said:


> TODAY ON GULF NEWS: NO BAD. 550K for a 1Br 760sqft flat in Dubai Marina.
> It means that International city can hope to sell the same only under 300K
> 
> 
> For Sale: Dubai Marina, Marina Diamond 5 - 1 B/R Apt., 760 sq.ft., fully furnished on higher floor, 17th floor. AED 550K. Call Yelena 050-7705863. HOMELAND PROPERTIES LLC (Committed to Realty) - A Member of Dubai Property Society | Tel.: 04-3930400 | Agents: Bryan 050 7647996, Liz 050 4986426, Geeta 050 3791167, Yelena 050 7705863, Mac 050 7781982 & Omar 050 7277972 | Fax: 04-3931466 | E-mail: [email protected] | A Rais Hassan Saadi Group Company.


----------



## DubaiDreamz

Alabri said:


> Thanks for your pics Bizzy. It's a long time that I was waiting for photos. Unfortunately there is nothing about "The Souk" (Babil-Rumelia). An other time I hope. In any case it looks that the works are slow...very slow.hno:


If they complete as per the contract then it will be a different arguement....personally as long as the quality is excellent I don't mind waiting a few extra months! Too many proijects have been hurried and are really suffering after a rushed handover...


----------



## sidxb

DubaiFive0 said:


> Don't joke about that, its too painful! Apparently the sprinkler in my MD2 apartment failed and flooded the place. Tenant left a month early so I had to refund him a months rent (fair enough as long as he didn't set it off!). Agent told me I'm lucky he didn't sue me for his soggy briefs etc.
> 
> That was over 2 months ago, since then the place has been festering to the extent that it needs a new front door in addition to a paint job etc. I need to know:
> 
> 1. If the maintenance fee normally covers building insurance and would it be applicable in this instance, as Diamond Investments have admonished all responsibility.
> 
> 2. Can anyone recommend an insurance co. operating in Dubai?
> 
> (3. A good lawyer!?)
> 
> Flying off at the end of the week to hopefully sort the mess out.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Side thought:
> On the subject of fire alarms \ sprinklers if a fire is detected at what stage will they go off (thinking about all the false alarms that go off due to burnt toast etc.) and will it be confined to the area of the fire or go off in the entire building?


Hi , 
Someone with technical know how on forum may be able to help you regarding the workings of sprinkler but I can tell you one thing from my experience. Generally property agents in dubai are excellent in sweet talking and hiding the facts since they know that they can get away with it.
You mentioned your agent telling you that you are lucky your tenant did not sue you is rubbish . I have not heard anyone suing the apt owner for maintenance / fixtures problem in apartment.

You should look at all this from another angle. Rents have drastically come down in Dubai . Say if you rented a 1 bed in marina in Jun 08 for 120,000 , similar apartment might be available now for 70-80,000 . However many who rented in 2008 are unable to vacate due to penalty clauses. Tenant / Agent may have played around to avoid penalty for 1 month and get back the rent.


----------



## sidxb

Dubaidog said:


> Some good news on the banking front at long last.....:banana:
> 
> Effective July 1st HSBC are reducing interest rates by 1% on their Variable Mortgage Home Loan accounts. This decrease is long over due and the rates will still be far in excess of the rates charged by banks in the US. But it is one sign that liquidity is starting to return to the market.


There are good news coming from banking sector . Finally after a long time, a bank ( DIB ) is announcing upto 90 % home financing.

http://www.albawaba.com/en/countries/UAE/248268


----------



## jeetha

I once asked an agent in Dubai about a developer I already knew about, just to test the agent’s skills. The bulls**t that he was giving me was unbelievable.

The bad news is………. he was so convincing.:bash:


----------



## jagmp

recently my tenant vacated the apt.the new tenant was moving in. the agent called me to say there is a small problem.there is a big crack in the bed room.it has to be repaired.i said i will tell the developer's maintanance dept to fix it.he said they will charge too much.he can get it done cheaper.he did it for dhs1000.how do i know that there was a problem in the first place.and if it is fixed how much does it cost.infact he got the apt cleaned from cleaning company which he said charged dhs 350.

i was happy thinking he did a favour to me without charging any management fee.couldn't he be honest?


----------



## tehsin123

*UAE minister in U-turn on population decline*

The UAE, dependent on an expatriate workforce, expects a slowdown in the number of workers coming into the country, the oil-rich nation's labour minister said on Wednesday in Geneva at the United Nations.

http://business.maktoob.com/20090000005611/UAE_minister_in_U_turn_on_population_decline/Article.htm

Why officials undermine their reputation by first denying the truth then accepting it?


----------



## Wannaberich

Watched a programme on UK TV tonight about the property situation in Spain.
Heres the promo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rQK1mo1YG0
should be on You Tube soon.
Its a total f mess out there.Makes Dubai look like a picnic.


----------



## noir-dresses

good find wanna, cnn had an ad about a year ago when times were good, so many people were getting screwed then aswell, buildings being built to close to the ocean, and to be knocked down, no building permits, money taken up front, and no dream apartments, etc, etc


----------



## noir-dresses

New law to limit UAE public debt

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Economy/10323877.html


----------



## noir-dresses

US travellers' spending in UAE jumps 85% 

I would'nt be surprised that most of it is from US Navy !!!!!! Im sure they spent alot more on hookers

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Tourism_and_Travel/10323796.html


----------



## noir-dresses

Major developers in UAE likely to provide own financing

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10323858.html


----------



## noir-dresses

Banks Ease Up on Lending

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/ins...09/June/business_June771.xml&section=business


----------



## TDemirel

*distress Sales*



DaYFox said:


> Had a look for some more distress sales. And as Imre said before there are almost zero nowadays! Thats the only one I found on Expatriates:
> 
> 
> The good thing is: distresss sales, are very few in these days.
> The first wave of exodus, doom and gloom came to an end already.
> At least I can say that the market is now with it's usual demand and supply basis.
> I can see it with the offers coming to the villa that I put for sale.
> Every week the offers are getting better. Still not the price I'm willing to sell, but at least increasing.(And I'm holding and rejecting to sell witj these offers, lime many other Owners)
> 
> There are no more any Springs Type 4M for sale for 1 mio.
> But it is already around 1.3 to 1.4.
> Is this start of recovery: Offcourse Not.
> But at least less distress sales, and the new buyers are raising their bar.
> 
> Banks: They need to lend. Otherwise there is no way to make money.
> I'm sure when they are making the 90% offers they are very selective about the developer and the property (completed, villa or apt.) , but at least they believe there is lesser risk than few months back.
> 
> My personal opinion is that it will take a while or maybe never to reach 2008 levels, but at least now we are heading to a free market based on supply - demand equation with major factor of location.
> 
> And never forget that the prices (at least asking ones) are going up even in the beginning of summer, when the Dubai should be a ghost town already.
> 
> Good Night


----------



## True Blue

Wannaberich said:


> Watched a programme on UK TV tonight about the property situation in Spain.
> Heres the promo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rQK1mo1YG0
> should be on You Tube soon.
> Its a total f mess out there.Makes Dubai look like a picnic.


Just watched the same program, I had no idea things were so bad in Spanish property market.

Upto a 1,000,000 empty properties along the coastline resulting in ghost towns in the new developments. Thousands and thousands of partly build properties where the developer has absconded without paying the builders who then go bust. Residents have to finish the works themselves as raw sewage runs down the streets onto the beach.

Property market driven by the ease of mortgages, only need a "pulse and a passport" to get a mortgage. Negative equity and defaulters everywhere causes banks to double interest rates to cover their losses only causing the problem to get worse with even more defaulters and crashing prices. Problem is spiraling out of control and people who have cashed in their life savings for a deposit and forfeited their pensions to pay a mortgage on a "pension property" end up losing everything. One elderly restaurant owner bought offplan for Euro 250,000 could not even offload his completed unit at auction for 90,000euros and had to just hand over the keys to the bank who will probably come after his business now for the rest of the debt.

Wow, glad I bought in Dubaikay:


----------



## Imre

*Gulf dinar 'to replace four local currencies' *


AFP on Friday, June 19, 2009 

Four Gulf oil producers planning monetary union are expected to name a new common currency the Gulf dinar, a Saudi academic said yesterday.

And the new currency will run in tandem with national coins and notes now in circulation to ease the transition, he said.

Wadei Ahmed Kably, economics professor at the King Abdul Aziz University in the Saudi Red Sea Port of Jeddah, said he expected the *Gulf dinar to be issued by the Gulf Central Bank and set at SR10, nearly $2.66.*

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...6192009_31063656473f4a46a5a0f83e06203d68.aspx


----------



## 234sale

Would it be wise to peg the dirham to the dinar?


----------



## Anjam

^^ Would it make any difference? 
The Gulf Dinar is also pegged to the Dollar isn't it?


----------



## Imre

*Top 10 Most Expensive Cities in the World*

1. Luanda, Angola
2008 rank: 1

2. Tokyo, Japan
2008 rank: 13

3. Nagoya, Japan
2008 rank: 20

4. Yokohama, Japan
2008 rank: 15

5. Kobe, Japan
2008 rank: 29

6. Copenhagen, Denmark
2008 rank: 4

7. Oslo, Norway
2008 rank: 2

8. Geneva, Switzerland
2008 rank: 6

9. Zurich, Switzerland
2008 rank: 8

10. Basel, Switzerland
2008 rank: 9

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/t...wLXRvZGF5BHNsawNtb3N0LWV4cGVuc2l2ZS1jaXRpZXM-


----------



## camelrider

Any news,if any progress by ROYAL INVESTORS GROUP? if we still want our money back? the emails have been quiet lately......
Check this out;


_One may have a loophole in Law 13 Article 3 which came into force on 14/08/2008

If the developer has not registered the project or your unit within 60 days of the above date then you may get you money back + 9% per annum. There was a case citing this in Gulf News earlier in the year. 

You should approach RERA with your case.

Article (3)
1. The Interim Real Estate Register is used to record all disposals of Real Estate
Units off plan. Any sale or other disposition that transfers or restricts title or
any ancillary rights shall be void if not recorded on that Register.
2. Any developer who made a sale or other disposition that transferred or
restricted title prior to the coming into force of this Law should approach the
Department to get it registered in the Real Estate Register or the Interim Real
Estate Register, as applicable, within 60 days after the date on which this Law
came into force. _

What do you all think about this? do we have any chance?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Banks lending more to property buyers in UAE*

Mortgage lending in Dubai appears to be increasing amid growing confidence in the real estate sector that better liquidity will see a recovery by the end of the year.

Noor Islamic Bank reported that its mortgage business is 40 to 50% up on the start of the year. Dubai Islamic Bank has announced it would offer 90% financing on properties in the United Arab Emirates.

'Things have improved from last year, it's a stable situation. The market has improved,' said Fahd Reaz senior product manager in personal and home finance for Noor Islamic Bank.

Anecdotal evidence has shown over the last three months that liquidity is returning to the banking system. In March HSBC increased its loan to value ratios to 75% and 70% on villas and apartments. 

But there is still some reluctance to lend to off-plan properties. Reaz admitted the bank was 'apprehensive' about lending to buyers of off-plan properties, which some suggest has fallen up to 50% in Dubai in the wake of the global crisis. 

Charles Neil, chief financial officer at Dubai-based broker Landmark Properties, said 30% of the group's total transactions were mortgage financed in May this year, compared to just 17% between January and April.

Neil said it was critical for mortgage availability to increase otherwise prices could continue to fall hurting the UAE property market further. But he predicted no substantial increase in home loan financing in the next two years and predicted house prices would not rise before 2011. 

Dubai Islamic Bank is also offering re-financing solutions for properties that are already completed.

'Property buyers in the UAE are seeking easy home financing solutions. At DIB, customers are our top priority and we are pleased to open new doors for them by offering up to 90% finance,' said Adnan Chilwan, Chief of Retail and Business Banking, DIB.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*The credit crunch has ripped through Dubai, leaving the emirate battling to show its grand plans are more than a mirage*

Dubai has been good to Chris Dommett. The 47-year-old banker moved to the emirate 13 years ago and set up a property company. He found success – his firm generated millions of pounds – and happiness. He met his fiancée, Teresa. He never had any doubts about joining the ranks of a new white tribe of Arabia. Until now. “I’m not sure the government knows how to get out of this mess,” he said. 

The global recession has ripped through Dubai, leaving its dream of becoming the Switzerland of the Middle East looking like a mirage. Locals who used to joke that Dubai would be a great place “when it’s finished” now wonder whether it’s finished. 

They’re counting the cost in Britain, too. The UK has invested more in Dubai than any other country – an estimated £3 billion. British companies are owed more than £400m by troubled state-backed firms. 

Raw numbers confirm the desert storm. Property, the engine of Dubai’s growth that at its peak last year accounted for more than half the economy, has run into the sand. House prices are down by as much as 50%. Prices will fall a further 20%, predicts UBS, the Swiss bank, leaving Dubai real estate the worst-hit anywhere. 

British investors have sunk some £200m into £1 billion-worth of property, much of which is unfinished and some of which may never be. An estimated £335 billion of projects have been halted or are on hold. 

Tourism, 20% of GDP last year, is down. Room rates at Jumeirah, its leading hotel group, have fallen 25%, concedes Gerald Lawless, its Irish-born boss. There are fewer bums on the posh seats of Emirates, the city state’s airline. 

Multi-billion dollar investments by Dubai’s sovereign wealth funds in foreign assets such as MGM Mirage, the Las Vegas gaming giant, have slumped. The market has fallen up to 70% from its 2005 highs. 

Key state-backed companies, notably Nakheel, the developer, have either had their credit ratings downgraded or been put on negative watch. The debt of government and govern-ment-controlled firms has risen to $80 billion (£48.6 billion), more than the city state’s GDP. Almost $11 billion comes due this year (including interest) and $12.4 billion next year. 

Fears of default have forced the emirate’s rulers to dash to their wealthier neighbour, Abu Dhabi, for a bailout of up to $20 billion, underwritten by the Central Bank of the United Arab Emirates. However, bad though the numbers are, there’s something more serious: something that strikes at the heart of Dubai’s aim to create a pro-western, moderate Muslim capitalist success story. Dubai is facing a confidence crunch. 

The emirate depends on westerners, not just for investment, but to run its contractors, banks, hotels and airlines. In the boom years, westerners flooded in to get rich – outnumbering native Emiratis 10 to 1. Now that the economy has slumped, many are questioning whether Dubai is the place to be. With the school year about to end, UBS says the population, which is already falling, could slump by as much as one third by year-end. A brain drain that big could be devastating. 

“Dubai is a pay-as-you-go model, dependent on foreigners’ money and talent,” said Saud Masud, analyst at UBS, who came to Dubai from New York. “If foreigners exit, there is a domino effect through the entire economy.” 

What’s worrying many western investors is the way they say Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Dubai’s ruler, is handling the crisis. 

They accuse the government of going into denial, at first. Then, when the slump couldn’t be ignored, they say ministers failed to act. It was more than five months after the collapse of Lehman Brothers before Sheikh Mohammed finally negotiated the federal bailout and more than six months before he issued a public statement on the economic crisis. 

The government’s belated attempts to combat the down-turn are making it worse, business leaders say. They point to the appointment, then almost immediate removal, of a new spokesman for the emirate. Nasser Al-Shaikh, director-gen-eral of the department of finance, was hand-picked by Sheikh Mohammed in March to be the reassuring new face of Dubai. Last month Sheikh Mohammed abruptly removed him. No reason was given. 

Critics also argue that new visa rules are likely to damage the property market. Dubai recently revised how it grants residency to expat homebuy-ers. Instead of two to five-year visas, expats will have to renew them after six months at a cost of almost $700 a time. 

“We need confidence-boosting leadership but we’re not sure what the government is up to,” said Dommett. 

The confidence crunch extends beyond Dubai – tarnished by reports in overseas newspapers, which, unlike local titles, are not censored. Press reports have denounced the city state as “Neverland built on the never-never”. 

Sheikh Mohammed is so concerned he has hired London-based PR group Finsbury – run by Roland Rudd, a friend of Peter Mandelson, the business secretary – to help ministers to speak out to reassure investors and business leaders. It’s a remarkable U-turn. 

“In the past, ministers went out of their way not to speak out,” said Frank Kane, a British journalist who now runs a media consultancy in the UAE. 

The man with the toughest job in the spin souk is Omar Bin Sulaiman, governor of the Dubai International Financial Centre. He concedes that ministers took too long to assure businesses and investors that they were tackling the crisis. “While focusing on doing the job of fixing the problems, we did not communicate that we were doing the job,” he said. Ministers would be more open in future, he pledged. 

Dubai’s $80 billion debt was being reduced, he said. State spending will increase by 42% this year, creating thousands of jobs. Although it will lead to a budget deficit of 1.3% of GDP, that figure is the lowest among the Gulf states after Qatar. 

Half of the $20 billion raised in the recent bond issue has been used to bail out state-backed firms, notably Nakheel, he said. The remaining $10 billion will be handed out by the end of the year. 

He conceded that property prices were down by as much as 50%, but insisted the worst was over. The latest survey by HSBC shows prices are starting to rise. Dubai remains the Gulf’s preeminent service centre and will grow when the region’s economy picks up, he said. 

He predicts growth of about 2% this year, down from 8% last year and way off the government’s projections of 11% a year from this year until 2015. 

Can Sulaiman, dubbed “the man in white”, steer Dubai back into the black? Not any time soon, said Masud. With the economy slowing and 100,000 homes due for completion just as the population decreases, the economy could spiral downwards, he argues. 

“Lack of demand in real estate leads to economic slow-down which, in turn, leads to job losses, which fuels further demand destruction. When do we hit the bottom?” 

Standard & Poor’s, the credit-ratings agency, says the economy will shrink 2% to 4% this year. Others are more sanguine. They point out that Dubai has invested wisely in infrastructure – hard and “soft” – to become the undisputed business capital of the trillion dollar Gulf economy. 

Emirates is buying 58 Airbus A380 superjumbos at a cost of $55 billion and will soon be operating from a five-runway airport. New roads carve oily streaks across the desert and the Metro monorail public transport system has just opened. Jebel Ali port is still one of the world’s busiest. 

By promoting Islamic finance and encouraging women to go into business, Dubai has also become a business hub for hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, Syrians, Iranians, Lebanese and Indians who are unlikely to decamp to New York, London or Paris. 

Simon Williams, HSBC’s chief economist in Dubai, said: “Dubai is a $50 billion to $60 billion economy, integrated intoa trillion-dollar region. Dubai works because the Gulf works and the Gulf is not going to stop working.” 

The one thing everyone agrees on is that the next six months are crucial. “We’re at a tipping point,” said Dommett, looking out of his office at half-built buildings. 

“Dubai has brilliantly exploited the boom years to build itself on to the map and into people’s minds. But Plan A is over now. The model only works in the good times. We need Plan B and we need it fast.” 

My son learned to ski here but he’s never seen snow 

Michael Johnston-Smith arrived in Dubai two years ago and instantly fell in love with the place. 

The British-born property fund manager is a serial expat. He has lived in Hong Kong, Beijing and Singapore, but he saw a long-term future for his young family in Dubai. 

It is not difficult to understand the attraction. His job with a Kuwaiti property company paid well, the family home is five minutes from the Burj Al Arab hotel and his children were accepted into the prestigious Jumeirah English Speaking School. 

“I saw myself here until retirement,” he said. “The schooling, housing and lifestyle is great and we’ve been able to explore the Middle East.” 

Johnston-Smith, however, will take a one-way flight to London this week. “I lost my job earlier this year. I have done one interview a week, but nothing has come of it. I got a relatively decent package, but we’ve been eating into our savings.” The crunch came when he had to decide whether to renew the lease on his property – in Dubai it is normal to pay rent a year in advance. 

He couldn’t take the risk. “The decision we’ve taken is a very difficult one, but how much of your savings do you use up – some of it, or all of it?” 

The 45-year-old does not have a job lined up for his return but said the hardest part was breaking the news to his sons. 

“They love it here. My seven-year-old learned to ski at Dubai Snow Park – he’s a proficient skier who has never seen real snow. My wife has a great social network around the school. Life was varied and exciting,” he said. 

For some Brits Dubai still has a lot to offer. Dominic Treays, 32, set up the Cragus Group, a tax advisory firm, two years ago. 

Business is good, although the direction has changed. 

“Companies still need tax advice, but we have changed as Dubai has changed. The incorporation side of the business disappeared in December. There was nothing, not even a smell until last month, when we had a few set-ups.” 

Treays has also seen a change in the type of people now moving to Dubai. 

“A lot were just coming out because it’s tax-free.The financial crisis has been a blessing in disguise because all these cowboy types who just wanted to make a quick buck have left.” 

Treays is not sure if he will stay in Dubai, but he is certain it has a future. 

“The best way of looking at Dubai is by studying the architecture: you have a skyscraper, a skyscraper and another skyscraper and you might think it’s Manhattan but in between it’s just sand and the only way to fill in those gaps is with time. Dubai has not had that time yet. 

“It’s aiming to be London, New York or Hong Kong, but if it only ever becomes a Miami, that’s still great. Forty years ago it was desert.”

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/the_gulf/article6543895.ece


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## Dubai_Steve

Dubai development may be down, but it's not out

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/arts/la-ca-dubai21-2009jun21,0,3828787.story


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## 234sale

Anjam said:


> ^^ Would it make any difference?
> The Gulf Dinar is also pegged to the Dollar isn't it?


Gulf dinar 'to replace four local currencies' 
AFP on Friday, June 19, 2009 
Four Gulf oil producers planning monetary union are expected to name a new common currency the Gulf dinar, a Saudi academic said yesterday.

Is the new Dinar pegged to the Dollar,, Dunno?


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## sameerl

As we approach the one year anniversary of the real estate and financial crisis in the UAE, it is important to look forward and determine whether some of the fundamentals of the city will revitalize to the point of being attractive again for business startup activity. To summarize:

1) There has been an exodus of people leaving as businesses have shut down
2) Rents have come down dramatically, and inflation levels have come significantly down
3) Fiscal stimulus is in effect in Dubai as spending on infrastructure has increased 42% this year.
4) The stimulus effect has been mitigated by the fact that government sponsored entities (GSEs) like Emaar, Nakheel, Dubai Properties, Meeras and the like have been slow in making payments to contractors, as they struggle to consolidate
5) Asset prices have contracted significantly, and mortgage activity is only now starting to revive (at a very glacial pace)
6) Oil prices have rebounded from their lows, giving some liquidity cushion to the region. This has been reflected in interest rates moving lower; however should the trend reverse, liquidity conditions will remain tight.
7) Construction activity remains very low apart from infrastructure. 
8) Change in visa policy has dampened investor sentiment for real estate in Dubai and the UAE.

Given the fact that the monetary policy in the UAE remains tight on a relative basis, and the fact that the country does not have any independance to maneouvre on this front, it is the fiscal policy and related logistical issues that the government will continue to have to attack in order to revive business sentiment. Some specific issues that need to be tackled include:

1) Improvement in transparency: It remains shocking that the level of data released in the city of Dubai remains as opaque as it does. For a city aspiring to be a regional and international center of commerce, the level of information dissemination remains low. If Dubai is indeed recovering, or is not as badly affected as the rest of the region, then the best argument for this is the release of data on aperiodic basis. This remains lacking.

2) Overhaul of immigration laws. Enough has been said about this issue, but it needs to be tackled head on. 

3) Consolidation of GSEs. There has been considerable speculation about this for months now, but unless it is done, there can not be sufficient progress on cost cutting and restructuring that is badly needed in this city. GSEs need to merge, close down and/or consolidate; this soes not necessarily relate to real estate alone; Nakheel and Dubai Holding have a phletora of invetsment offices that invested throughout the globe; there is a common shareholder here, and now these entities need to group under one entity. There is the Investment Corporation of Dubai, and perhaps the verious investment entities of Dubai Holding and Nakheel will fall under this, but so far no moves towards this have happened. 

4) Further fiscal stimulus: It is a strain on the treasury, but the government needs to continue to inflate the economy by pumping in further cash towards not only infrastructure of transport and services, but also towards the revitalization of busienss activity. Some moves towards this have already been annunced such as the reduction of fees of licences, but further moves such as the reduction of telephony charges (internet and voice call charges remain much highre than the US and most of Europe). A dedictaed task force needs to identify these anomalies, as Dubai moves to attract new busienss activity.

More to follow in terms of return expectations for the next 3 years, but the investmnet outlook certainly looks brighter now than it did a year ago.

2)


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## High Times

An excelent, well written and balanced post. 

Thank you sameer.


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## sameerl

In terms of return expectations, the two different economic models that appear by way of comparison with regards to economic cycles, is that of Japan and the US (Europe, for the pruposes of this analysis is similar to that of the US). In Japan, the spectacular bursting of the asset bubble in 1991 meant that a long period of economic morass set in; so much so that 18 years later, real estate prices still have not reached 1991 levels. In the US, periodic booms and busts have occurred, but asset prices have quickly scaled new heighths; with the exception of the great depression, asset prices have always rebounded from their trough in 1n 18-24 month cycle. So the question is whether Dubai follows Japan, or that of the US. There are many similarities with Japan to be sure; a state sponsored economic system, an inadequate banking system, an embryonic financial intermediation system, and an opaque regulatory framework;all this bodes ominously for Dubai. However, the city's principal advanatges include its gateway to South Asia, as well as a hub for hot money flows(including the infamous havalaroute). Such pools of capital will continue to find a home in Dubai, and it is for this reason that asset prices will not trend much lower from here. The rebound depends as much on the health of the world economy as it does on the changing regulatory infrastructure and fiscal policies that Dubai adopts, but it appears clearer that the risk reward framework is slowly tiliting towards a bullish slant.


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## Imre

*EMAAR ACQUIRES GOLDEN ACE'S DEBT *

Dubai, UAE,

June 20, 2009: Emaar Properties PJSC (“Emaar”) through its subsidiary Emirates Property Holdings Limited has acquired the debt provided to Golden Ace Pte. Ltd. by its lenders amounting to US$ 122 million. The loan was in default due to the inability of Golden Ace’s majority shareholder to service the loan. The acquisition of the loan provides Emaar with the ability to exercise voting rights equivalent to 61.3% shares in RSH Limited ("RSH"). RSH is a listed company in Singapore having a portfolio of over 90 brand-names in sports, golf active lifestyle, fashion, watches, beauty and cosmetics in South East Asia and Middle East. Brands include Zara, Massimo Dutti, Mango, Bebe, Reebok, Lacoste, and Callaway, to name a few. It also has 947 stores worldwide.

Currently, RSH also has a number of stores in Dubai Mall and Dubai Marina Mall. In addition, Emaar wishes to utilize the brands owned by RSH for its significant retail space currently under development in Middle East, North Africa and the South Asia. The availability of the franchises owned by RSH provides the platform to Emaar to have the ready availability of the large tenants with significant brands when opening new malls and also attracting other large franchises / brands. This provides significant value accretion to the Emaar Retail and Mall assets with both businesses (Retail and Malls) significantly complementing each other.

Emaar has purchased the loan obligations of Golden Ace to protect the value and franchises of RSH. By acquiring the debt, Emaar will instill confidence in RSH's principals and ensure continuance of its businesses, which is also important to Emaar for its significant Malls business.

(emaar.com)

just for interesting , the RSH Chairman is Mohamed Ali Alabbar


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## Imre

*Residence Visa Update from the DMCC ( JLT ) :*

Dear Mr.Imre

Please note till now we didn’t receive any update

Regards

so still ON HOLD :nuts:


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## Dubai_Steve

Its really crazy if Dubai does not even let Imre have a permanent visa and he has to leave also


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## Imre

they dont want retired people here

I still have time till March 2010, maybe the will change the visa rules later .


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## True Blue

Imre said:


> *EMAAR ACQUIRES GOLDEN ACE'S DEBT *
> 
> .....................
> 
> just for interesting , the RSH Chairman is Mohamed Ali Alabbar


A very interesting read which shows that Emaar still have massive confidence in themselves to emerge from this economic crisis in the short term. All until I read that Ali Alabbar is behind the companies he is rescueing using another company he has also misshandled.

Positive none the less.


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## AITU

^^ It wouldn't have looked good at this time if all of these brand names were forced to leave Dubai Mall and also cancelled their space in the Marina Mall


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## Dubaiiscool:)

*UAE property market 'starting to bottom out', says HSBC*

The UAE real estate market is starting to bottom out, with agreed prices for property transactions rising 4% and 5% month on month in April and May 2009, according to a new survey by HSBC. David Lepper, Head of UAE Equity Research, HSBC Global Research, said: 'Market data from April and May show a range of positive indicators: agreed property sale prices are rising, volumes are holding up well, and banks have loosened their lending criteria. However, we will not be able to discern a sustainable trend until later in 2009, and while we note these positive developments, the market as a whole is coming off a very low base, given the sharp declines since the market peak. Credit growth remains subdued, and the UAE economy still has challenges to deal with.'

Link: http://www.ameinfo.com/198691.html


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## Dubaiiscool:)

*Abu Dhabi prices begin to level off*

Prices in Abu Dhabi's real estate market have begun to show signs of a turn around, while the emirate's master developers have also seen their shares rise on the local markets. 



According to a report by HSBC's regional research bureau, advertised prices of properties for sale in the UAE capital rose by an average of 2% in April and 7% in May. 

Results were based on prices for apartments, which rose by 8% in May, and those for villas, which in contrast continued to fall (losing 4% on the previous month). 

The report puts the main reason for this down to lower affordability due to the difficulty that investors are having in accessing finance, as the entry point for villas is more expensive than for apartments, rather than marking out a specific shift in unit preference. 

The HSBC report also points to a decline in the number of listed properties being offered for sale, down 30% from February (1,215) to May (854 units), as the amount of distressed stock clears. 


Average prices
A Sales Guide for June prices in Abu Dhabi, released by Landmark Advisory, has shown an expected value for purchases in the various developments coming online. 

Projects on Reem Island and Hydra Village seem to have witnessed the largest slides from their peak asking prices. 

Reem Island unit prices go from Dhs1,000 to Dhs1,600 per square foot for studios, Dhs900 to Dhs1,500 for one bedroom apartments, Dhs1,000 to Dhs1,500 for two bedroom properties, Dhs1,000 to Dhs1,600 for four bed units and Dhs1,050 to Dhs1,400 for four beds, according to the group. 

In Hydra Village prices for two bedroom villas went from Dhs400 to Dhs700 per square foot, Dhs450 to Dhs750 per square foot for three bedrooms, and Dhs450 to Dhs550 for four bed units. This may partly be a reflection of an ongoing dispute between a group of investors and Hydra Properties regarding payment schedules and penalties for properties in the development, whose completion has now been pushed back from mid-2009 until Q4 2011. 

The figures were a combination of transactional data and broker surveys. 


Aldar 'well positioned'
Aldar Properties, one of whose developments is Al Raha Beach, where prices have managed to hold their value better than many other projects coming online, has been singled out by Moody's financial rating agency as being in a good position to see out the financial crisis. 

The company is boosted by the current undersupply of housing in the emirate, with a further 34,000 units needed this year to make up the shortfall, and what Moody's has said is its method of 'adjusting to changing market conditions'. 

The developer announced recently that it was adjusting some projects to add more affordable housing to its portfolio in response to market needs, including launching the government-backed Al Falah project to build 5,000 homes for Emiratis, and has looked into expanding its recurrent income portfolio. 

HSBC's research report warned, however, that the sheer scale of the company's developments would stretch its operational capacity, introducing the risk of delays in handover. 

Link: http://www.ameinfo.com/199376.html


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## TerryPop

*Nakheel being sued*

Apparently Nakheel is going to be taken to court > 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/559653-tenants-threaten--legal-action-against-nakheel

(average service & cooling charges have been reduced to 25 dhms/ft2 yeeee ouch!- they were 30dhms)


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## Imre

*Hamdan bin Mohammed endorses Unified Fare of Mass Transport in Dubai*

*Al Tayer: RTA Opted to Offer Affordable Fare to Encourage the Use of Public Transport Modes*

•	Dubai Divided into 5 Zones, fares range from 80 fils to 5.8AED, and special fares offered to students & elderly
•	A Unified card, called “Nol” is introduced in 4 types: Silver, Gold, Blue and Red
•	Metro Park-and-Ride Facilities offered free of charge for public transport users, non-public transport users to be charged 10AED per hour or 50AED per day

Roads & Transport Authority – Mohammed Al Munji:
HH Sheikh Hamdan bin Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Dubai Crown Prince and Chairman of the Executive Council, endorsed Order No. 3/2009 governing the Unified Fare of Mass Transport in the Emirate of Dubai by means of a Unified Electronic Fare Card known as “NOL CARD”; an electronic Pay-As-You-Go system introduced by Roads & Transport Authority (RTA) as a means of easing the mobility of all public transport users. 
While breaking the news in a press conference held yesterday in the Conference Room of RTA HQ, H.E. Mattar Al Tayer, Chairman of the Board & Executive Director of RTA, said: “The Unified Nol Card, which will be unleashed with the start of passenger service of Dubai Metro, offers smooth & comfortable service to users of Dubai Metro, Public Buses, Water Bus and Paid Parking Zones. The name “Nol” was branded to the card as it is an authentic Arabic word meaning “Fare” or “Cost of using transport”. The logo of the Unified Nol Card was designed to replicate the unified identity of transport systems, with a symbolic reference to the seamless flow of various transport modes in Dubai. It illustrates the continuous mobility of commuters between various transport modes without stopovers; where the flowing lines depict the smooth mobility of transport, and the thin lines enrich the card, providing added value and protection to the card against counterfeiting”. 

Al Tayer went further to say: “While assessing the fare of mass transit systems, RTA was keen to have in place fares affordable to all, as we were seeking to encourage citizens, residents and visitors to use to use mass transit modes in an effort to make public transport the ideal choice of population. Under the Project, it was decided to divide the emirate of Dubai into five mobility zones, and offer Metro Park-and-Ride facilities free of charge to public transport users, while for non-public transport users a fee of 10 dirham per hour or 50AED per day will be charged.
“Nol Cards comprise four types: Nol Silver Card, Nol Blue Card, Nol Gold Card, and Nol Red Ticket. RTA was keen to have Nol Cards offered at diverse sale outlets such that they can be purchased and topped-up at Ticket Booths and Ticketing Vending Machines in all Dubai Metro stations, different bus stations, RTA Customer Service Centers, and at RTA authorized sales agents. Nol Cards are easily obtained and used as the user has just got to top-up the card in order to use it for boarding various transport modes. The fare will automatically be deducted depending on the use. The Card, which is modeled after international standards, is manufactured by more than one supplier, rendering it safe and difficult to counterfeit. Moreover, the Card has been designed with a view to addressing future requirements of e-payment systems i.e. to allow for the possibility of adding several and diverse uses.
“There are two categories of Nol Cards: Unified Paper Ticket issued at a two-dirham cost, and Unified E-Card issued at a 6-dirham cost. The fare of a single short journey not exceeding 3 km using the paper ticket is 2 dirham. The fare of travel within a single zone is 2.50AED, whereas it is 4.50AED in two neighboring zones and 6.50AED in 3 zones or more. The fare in the Gold Class for a short distance journey not exceeding 3 km is 4AED; whereas it is 5AED for a single zone, 9AED for 2 zones and 13AED for 3 zones or more. The cost of 10 journeys for short distances not exceeding 3 km is 20AED, whereas it 25AED in a single zone, 45AED in two zones and 65AED in three zones or more. A one-day travel pass is 14AED.
“The fare of travel using Unified e-Card in a short journey not exceeding 3 km is 1.80 dirham, whereas it is 2.30AED for a journey in a single zone, 4.10AED for a journey in two neighboring zones, and 5.80AED for a journey in three or more zones. The fare of travel in a single journey using Gold Card is 3.60AED for a short journey not exceeding 3km, whereas it is 4.60AED for a journey in a single zone, 8.20AED for a journey in two neighboring zones, and 11.60AED for a journey in 3 or more zones. The travel fare using a 30-day pass in short journeys within a single zone is 100AED, whereas it is 180AED in two zones and 270AED in three zones or more” continued Al Tayer.
RTA Chairman of the Board and Executive Director further added: “RTA was keen on fixing discounted fares for elderly as well as schools and college students. Here it was decided to fix the fare of travel using the Unified e-Card as 90 fils in short trips not exceeding 3 km, whereas it will be 1.15AED in a single zone, 2.05AED in two zones and 2.90AED in three zones or more. As for elderly, a 30-day pass is 200AED; whereas it will be 170AED for students”.
For his part Ramadan Abdullah, Director of the Unified Card Department elaborated on the types of various cards and said: “Nol Silver Card has an e-purse rechargeable up to 500AED, and the journey fare is calculated automatically based on the fare table. This card can be purchased from any ticket booth and some ticket vending machines at a price of 6 dirham for the card and an initial balance of 14 dirham rechargeable. This Card can be used immediately upon purchase, rechargeable at any ticket booth and valid for five years.
Nol Blue Card is a personalized card (with user photo inserted on the card) and no other user can use it should it be lost or stolen, therefore the credit is secure, so it will be stopped and now alternative card will be issued after reporting of losing the card and it can hold up to 500AED worth of credit. This card has an e-purse and the journey fare is calculated automatically based on the fare table. It enables the user to obtain secure online services such as balance recharging, inquiry about transactions, lodging complaints and receiving SMS & email notifications to verify or identify the required instructions. In future a discounted package will be made available for kids, students, elderly and special needs, and the Card valid for five years.
Nol Gold Card is rechargeable and can hold up to 500AED worth of credit. This card has an e-purse and the journey fare is calculated automatically based on the fare table. This card can be purchased from any ticket booth and some ticket vending machines at a price not exceeding 20AED – some of 6 AED for the card and 14AED as credit in the card and can be used immediately upon purchase. This card enables the user the privilege of using the Gold Class in Dubai Metro, and in case this card is used on other modes of transport with no Gold Class cabins, the user will be charged the normal fare, and the Card is valid for 5 years.
Nol Red Tickets is a 2-dirham paper ticket rechargeable that can be recharged for one or two journeys and up to 10 journeys maximum, or a travel pass for one day up to 5 days. This ticket can only be used for one mode of transport at a time (e.g. on Dubai Metro only or on Dubai Bus only), and is considered ideal for occasional or casual users of public transport. This ticket doesn’t have an e-purse account, and has to be pre-paid with the correct journey type. This ticket is valid for 90 days only and can be purchased from any ticket booth and ticket vending machines.
Photos:
-	Part of the press conference where the Unified Fare of Public Transport Modes in Dubai is announced.
-	Unified Fare Table
-	Fare Zones in Dubai
-	Types of Nol Cards
































































(RTA)


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## bizzybonita

انخفضت بنسبة 30٪ منذ بداية العام الجاري 

الإيجارات في دبي إلى «تصحيح» واســتقرار 

لم تفقد هبة الأيوبي وظيفتها خلال الفترة الماضية، مع تأثر شركات بالأزمة المالية العالمية، وقيامها بتسريح موظفين. وعلى الرغم من أنها لا تتوقع زيادة في راتبها أو راتب زوجها الذي يعمل في مجال الإعلانات خلال العام الجاري، إلا أن هبة، وهي فلسطينية، وتعمل في إحدى شركات التجارة، راضية بوضعها المالي الحالي، إذ ستتمكن من الانتقال للعيش في دبي، بعدما اعتادت السكن في شقة في منطقة البريمي خلال الأعوام الثلاثة الماضية.

وقالت هبة (25 عاماً) لـ«الإمارات اليوم»، حول انتقال سكنها «انتقلت منذ أشهر للسكن في «المدينة العالمية» في دبي بعد انخفاض أسعار المساكن في دبي إلى مستويات أقل، رغم أنها لاتزال غير منطقية».

وتابعت «كنت مضطرة وزوجي، للسفر يومياً من دبي إلى منطقة البريمي حيث نقيم في شقة هناك»، مشيرة إلى أن «رحلة السفر اليومي إلى العمل، تمتد لمسافة تزيد على 150 كيلومتراً».

وكشف تقرير حديث لـ«غرفة دبي»، عن أن أسعار إيجارات العقارات السكنية والتجارية قد شهدت تراجعاً بنسبة 30٪ منذ بداية العام الجاري، متوقعاً حدوث مزيد من الهبوط في أسعارها خلال شهور الصيف الجارية. فيما توقع خبراء ووسطاء عقاريون أن تشهد الأسعار ما سمّوه بـ«التصحيح»، و«الاستقرار المناسب» نهاية فصل الصيف.

*انخفاض*

وتفصيلاً، شهدت أسعار الإيجارات في دبي انخفاضات ملموسة خلال الشهور الثلاثة الماضية، حيث دعم انخفاض الأسعار، بدء موسم إجازات الصيف، وضعف الطلب على السكن، مع زيادة كبيرة في العرض من الوحدات السكنية في إمارتي دبي والشارقة، وخروج المضاربين من السوق العقارية، وتحول السوق نحو الاستثمار الحقيقي بحسب عقاريين.

وقال خبراء ووسطاء عقاريون إن «أسعار إيجارات الوحدات السكنية المتنوعة في دبي شهدت أخيراً، انخفاضات جديدة بلغ متوسطها نحو 25٪ في مختلف المناطق»، لافتين إلى أن «جملة الانخفاضات في إيجارات تلك الوحدات تقدر بنحو 45٪ منذ بداية تداعيات الأزمة المالية».

وتوقعوا أن «تشهد أسعار الإيجارات (تصحيحاً) إضافياً خلال موسم الصيف يقدر بنحو 10٪»، موضحين أن «(التصحيح) الذي حدث في أسعار الإيجارات، يرجع بشكل رئيس إلى انخفاض حجم الطلب عليها، مقارنة بالفترات التي تسبق الأزمة، فضلاً عن الركود الطبيعي في الأسواق خلال فترة الصيف». وأضافوا أنه «من المنتظر أن تشهد أسواق إيجارات الوحدات السكنية في دبي استقراراً مناسباً مع نهاية فصل الصيف».

*استقرار*

وفي هذا السياق، توقعت المديرة التنفيذية لشركة «سايتس» للوساطة العقارية، مريم الحجري، أن «تستقر الأسعار بعد نهاية فصل الصيف، وأن تشهد تصحيحاً بنسبة 10٪، رغم زيادة الطلب على السكن في مناطق دبي الجديدة».

وأضافت أن «الطلب موجود لكن المستأجر يرغب في أسعار أقل»، مشيرة إلى «وجود طلب من موظفين يعملون في أبوظبي، ويرغبون في السكن في دبي، فضلاً عن الراغبين في تغيير مساكنهم، والاستقرار في مسكن جديد قبل بدء إجازاتهم الصيفية». وقالت إن «الأسعار بدأت تعود إلى مستوياتها الطبيعية بعد أن ارتفعت إلى مستويات كبيرة، بسبب أعمال المضاربة التي حدثت خلال العامين الماضيين».

إلى ذلك، أكدت مؤسسة «لاندمارك» الاستشارية العقارية، «تراجع الإيجارات بشكل حاد في دبي على مدى الشهرين الماضيين»، وقالت إن «أسعار بعض العقارات التي تراوح من الشقق الصغيرة إلى الشقق الفاخرة في جزيرة (نخلة جميرا الصناعية) هبطت إلى نحو الثلث».

من جانبها، توقعت مديرة خدمات الأبحاث والاستشارات لدى المؤسسة، جيسي داونز، «انخفاضاً آخر للإيجارات في فصل الصيف، مع زيادة المعروض من العقارات، وانخفاض عدد السكان في دبي».

*مقارنات*

وبحسب تقرير لـ«لاند مارك»، فإن نسبة انخفاض إيجار شقة من غرفتي نوم في جزيرة «نخلة جميرا» تراوح بين 14 و33٪ في مايو الماضي، مقارنة مع مارس من العام الجاري، ليصل سعر الإيجار السنوي للشقة إلى ما بين 120 ــ 175 ألف درهم.

وتوقع بنك «اتش.اس.بي.سي» انخفاض التضخم في الإمارات إلى 5٪ العام الجاري، فيما توقعت المجموعة المالية «هيرميس» القابضة أن «يصل تراجع الطلب على العقارات السكنية هذا العام إلى أعلى مستوياته». وقالت إنه «من غير المرجح أن تتعافى السوق قبل العام 2011».

ورصدت «الإمارات اليوم»، وفقا لمصادر وشركات عقارية، بعض مظاهر (التصحيح) في أسعار إيجارات الوحدات السكنية في عدد من المناطق في دبي، حيث تراوح سعر الشقة «غرفة وصالة» بين 42 ــ 48 ألف درهم، مقارنة بأسعار سابقة تراوحت بين 60 - 70 ألف درهم في منطقة النهدة في دبي، فيما تراوح سعر الوحدات «غرفتان وصالة»، بين 60 ــ 70 ألف درهم، مقارنة بأسعار سابقة بلغت نحو 75 ــ 85 ألف درهم».

وفي السياق ذاته، قال المسؤول في «الساحة للعقارات» في دبي، عبدالرحمن إبراهيم بلال، إن «أسعار إيجارات الوحدات السكنية شهدت انخفاضات متتالية ظهرت بشكل واضح أخيراً مع نهاية موسم المدارس، ومع ترك بعض العائلات لوحداتهم والسفر لبلدانهم، بعد ترك وظائفهم جراء ظروف الأزمة المالية العالمية»، موضحاً أن «نسبة الانخفاضات الجديدة للإيجارات خلال الشهر الأخير، تراوحت بين 20 إلى 25٪، وفقاً لتباين معدلات الطلب على المناطق المختلفة في دبي».

وأشار إلى أن «إجمالي الانخفاضات في أسعار الإيجارات تقدر بنحو 45٪ منذ بداية ظهور تداعيات الأزمة».

وأضافً أن «أغلب التراجع تركز في وحدات الشقق ذات (غرفة وصالة)، خصوصاً في المناطق الصناعية في دبي».

وتوقع أن «تشهد الإيجارات تراجعاً إضافياً محدوداً يقدر بنحو 10٪، مع انخفاض الطلب خلال شهر الصيف، حيث من المنتظر أن تبدأ السوق في الاستقرار بشكل مناسب مع نهاية موسم الصيف ومع بدء العام الدراسي الجديد».

وأضاف أن «غالبية المكاتب العقارية تفضل تخفيض أسعار الإيجارات بدلاً من ترك الوحدات العقارية شاغرة».

ولفت إلى أن «أسعار إيجار الشقق (غرفتان وصالة) في منطقة النهدة في دبي، تراوح الآن بين 60 - 65 ألف درهم، بعد أن وصلت في فترات قريبة سابقة إلى نحو 80 ألف درهم».

*المؤشر الإيجاري*

أطلقت مؤسسة التنظيم العقاري التابعة لدائرة الأراضي والأملاك في دبي، نظاماً حسابياً على موقعها على الإنترنت بهدف حساب مؤشر الإيجارات في الإمارة، للاسترشاد به في حساب القيمة الإيجارية.

وقالت المؤسسة إن «العلاقة التعاقدية بين المؤجر والمستأجر هي علاقة تعاقدية ثنائية»، مشيرة إلى أن «المؤشر استرشادي وغير ملزم، وأنه في حالة وجود شكوى أو زيادة في أسعار الإيجارات، فإن على المستأجرين التوجه للجنة القضائية الخاصة بالفصل في المنازعات بين المؤجرين والمستأجرين للعقارات في مجلس بلدية دبي، الذين سيقومون بدورهم في النظر في الشكوى».​
الامارات اليوم


----------



## gerald.d

^^ 30%? :dunno:


----------



## Bekhit

gerald.d said:


> ^^ 30%? :dunno:


residential rents in Dubai down by 30%


----------



## TakeMeHigher

http://mail.google.com/mail/#inbox/1220ccc940dfff84

Global housing markets continue to struggle against a backcloth of economic stagnation or decline and rising unemployment

Israel was the top performer over the 12 month period ending Q1 2009 recording growth of 10.9%, followed by the Czech Republic at 9.9%. The worst performers were Dubai and Singapore who recorded falls in average prices of 32% and 23% respectively.


On a quarterly basis,* the most dramatic fall in prices were recorded by Dubai (-40%) *and Singapore (-16.2%). The best performing markets were Jersey with a 5.6% uplift in values and Finland (+4%)


----------



## Wannaberich

Could someone tell me if the following costs are about right for a 1 bed appartment.
My tenants have just left and this is what the property management company have quoted via 'Creative Kitchens'.
Maybe someone can give me another firms details to contact.Many thanks.

- painting of entire interior of apartment- AED 1,950-

- Maintenance ( such as; cleaning of ac filters and extractor fan

and re-hanging of closet door in master bedroom) 520-

- Pest control 175


----------



## bizzybonita

DCCI strongly backs 100 percent foreign ownership of businesses


The Dubai Chamber of Commerce and Industry (DCCI) has strongly supported the plan to allow foreign investors 100 percent ownership of locally-based companies in certain sectors of the economy.

At present foreigners should have UAE national as a sponsor, and are given the right to own only 49 percent of the company, if they wish to begin business outside the designated free zones.

The business group supports the amendments of proposed companies' law, in few economic sectors, with big investments and high technology that adds value to UAE economy, said Hamad Buamim, the Director General of DCCI yesterday.

The Government has been considering the revision of Companies Law for more than two years now. It has been pressurized from the Europe and the USA to permit greater foreign ownership of companies, based in the UAE.

According to analysts, such a move could benefit the economy and attract more investments, although, foreign investments in already established free zones could become pressurized.

The Director at Dubai's Arqaam Capital, Ali Khan, said that it is potentially good for the economy, but the free zones might feel pressured, as they need to attract investments too.


----------



## Imre

*Dubai Police chief calls to abolish sponsorship system in UAE *

By Wafa Issa, Staff Reporter
Published: June 24, 2009, 11:34

Dubai: Lieutenant General Dahi Khalfan Tamim, Dubai Police chief, on Wednesday called for the abolishment of the sponsorship system, saying it is a burden on UAE nationals, who have to be responsible for every aspect involving the lives of labourers.

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Employment/10325667.html


----------



## 234sale

http://translate.google.com/transla...er-den-Juniorchef&sl=de&tl=en&history_state0=

also

http://translate.google.com/transla...JT9tzFGMX0NFqzeUCgrMta7hEnpa&img=&text=&mode=

A German firm is currently examining claims for damages against the celebrities, the names of its investment company Alternative Capital Invest (ACI) and the ACI Real Estate Invest in Dubai and made available to millions seem to have collected fees.

The public prosecutor in Dubai identify the particulars of the firm due to misuse of investor funds, because the ACI investors their money no longer could pay back. Konkret geht es laut Anwalt Thomas Schulte um 60 Mio. Euro, die 6.000 deutsche Anleger bereits im März 2009 von ACI bekommen sollten. Specifically, according to attorney Thomas Schulte by 60 million euros, some 6,000 German investors already in March 2009 of ACI should get.

So basically they are demanding
Borris becker 2Million Euros
Schumacher 5Million Euors
Nikki Lauda 1Million Euros


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## 234sale

http://www.clydeco.com/knowledge/articles/dubai-real-estate-interim-registration-update.cfm

If your getting request to register your unit you will find this useful

The cost is 370AED and paid by the developer.


----------



## bizzybonita

Landmark rental index - June 2009

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/559802-landmark-rental-index---june-2009


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai rents to decline further in Q3

Residential rents will see further decline in Dubai during the third quarter, although signs of rent stabilisation exist, according to Landmark Advisory.

For the Dubai market, there are distinct signs of market stabilisation and a return of confidence from end-users. Sale prices have even increased in some cases. This increase is largely due to the dynamics of each development, said Jesse Downs, Director of Research, Landmark Advisory.

Smaller villa developments that have tapped into sufficient value recognition among end-users with regards to location, layout, build quality and amenities and facilities are among those developments experiencing price increases.

A comparison of period from Landmark's May guide with June reveals that rents in Palm Jumeirah have stabilised, while studios in Dubai Marina witnessed a dip of seven to 25 per cent.

However, some landlords are still experiencing robust demand for higher-quality rented homes in premium locations, she added.

According to Landmark, the sharpest decline was seen in apartments. The combination of the economic downturn and a large quantity of high-rise apartments that were completed in 2008 has resulted in an oversupply in this segment. Price differentiation, which was previously based on factors such as location, views and the quality of finishing, is being impacted by other factors, such as those units that are close to high voltage power lines are renting for lower rates than similar units located away from power sources.

Downs believes distressed sale opportunities are largely finished, as sellers refuse to lower existing prices, and buyers in some cases are paying increased rates for sought-after residential developments with limited homes available.

The company uses transactional data, broker survey and mystery shopping to ascertain the rent guide.

In May, Downs told Emirates Business that people were looking to upgrade their accommodations, with Sharjah and Ajman residents looking to move into Dubai.

Dubai tenants will see even more opportunities to upgrade their accommodation as rents will continue to fall. However, high-demand areas will experience a faster rent rebound as deal-seekers rush in, she said.


----------



## rexdmx

sameerl said:


> In terms of return expectations, the two different economic models that appear by way of comparison with regards to economic cycles, is that of Japan and the US (Europe, for the pruposes of this analysis is similar to that of the US). In Japan, the spectacular bursting of the asset bubble in 1991 meant that a long period of economic morass set in; so much so that 18 years later, real estate prices still have not reached 1991 levels. In the US, periodic booms and busts have occurred, but asset prices have quickly scaled new heighths; with the exception of the great depression, asset prices have always rebounded from their trough in 1n 18-24 month cycle. So the question is whether Dubai follows Japan, or that of the US. There are many similarities with Japan to be sure; a state sponsored economic system, an inadequate banking system, an embryonic financial intermediation system, and an opaque regulatory framework;all this bodes ominously for Dubai. However, the city's principal advanatges include its gateway to South Asia, as well as a hub for hot money flows(including the infamous havalaroute). Such pools of capital will continue to find a home in Dubai, and it is for this reason that asset prices will not trend much lower from here. The rebound depends as much on the health of the world economy as it does on the changing regulatory infrastructure and fiscal policies that Dubai adopts, but it appears clearer that the risk reward framework is slowly tiliting towards a bullish slant.


in this case population would actually play a key role. the U.S has always had a large population to "mop" up assets many years after a recession something the japanese never had..


----------



## sameerl

This is true. population and demography does play a critical role in the economic model; it will do so for dubai as well. The city's challenges mirror that of Japan in many ways, except, as i stated earlier, it acts as a gatreway to south asia. Amd it is for this reason that Dubai should continue to attract population from tehse countries over the medium term.


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## DaYFox

Better Homes News

It seems that the worst may well be over for Dubai property prices. While many experts predicted prices to continue falling throughout the remainder of 2009, several communities have actually increased transaction prices in May and June from a month earlier. This trend isn’t universal – certain communities have continued decreasing – but the universal free fall across Dubai which started in December 2008 has subsided. Indeed, our own State of the Market report predicted prices to continue falling for some time yet, but this is one prediction we’ll be happy to be wrong about if trend has truly changed.



So what is this assertion based on? Well, the June issue of Better Homes magazine highlighted the price increase at The Springs, where 2-bedroom villas were selling at AED 1 million in April and then 1.2 million in May. The Springs anecdote can now be seen in several other communities which have registered increases in their transacted prices, not just asking prices, month on month. Here are some examples:



Prices

Certainly, many other communities are still seeing declines, but current figures are suggesting that now is perhaps a great time to get into Dubai property as a medium to long term investment. With property competitively priced throughout the Emirate, investors’ money can go much further. There are indeed incredible deals currently on the market for opportunistic investors. 



For more information on current market trends and investment opportunities, please contact a Better Homes consultant at +971 600 52 2212 or visit bhomes.com.


----------



## 234sale

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090625/BUSINESS/706259964/1005

ABU DHABI // Dubai World, the government-owned ports and property conglomerate, is consolidating the property development and management roles of some of its subsidiaries under Nakheel, the company said in a statement.

I know some people laid off today,


----------



## paul66

*City (London) hiring again*

City ‘failing to learn lessons’ of crisis
FT.com : By George Parker. Published: June 23 2009 11:24 | Last updated: June 23 2009 15:07

Bankers and regulators are already showing signs of forgetting the lessons of the ”biggest financial crisis in the history of market capitalism”, Adair Turner, the City’s top regulator warned on Tuesday.

Lord Turner said he had noticed ”aggressive” hiring of traders by investment banks had resumed, raising new fears of irresponsible pay deals.

The chairman of the Financial Services Authority also claimed there were signs that some countries were losing their zeal for radical regulatory reform.

”There’s a real danger we don’t seize the opportunities of this crisis,” he told the Commons treasury committee.

”Internationally we could fail to be radical enough to respond to what has occurred.”

Asked whether the City was returning to ”business as usual” with big pay and bonus packages, he said: ”I’ve some concerns that may be the case.

”I’ve certainly noticed there is aggressive hiring going on, particularly in the trading activities of the investment banks.”

Lord Turner called for the creation of a new body to monitor the stability of the financial system that would function like the Bank of England’s monetary policy committee. 

The body should draw a majority of its members from the BoE, a minority from the FSA, and be chaired by the governor of the central bank, he said. 

In a speech last week, Mervyn King, Bank of England governor, said much tighter regulations were needed to prevent a recurrence of the financial crisis and restore popular trust in the market economy. He repeated recent calls for the Bank to be given greater powers to match its long-standing responsibility to deliver system-wide financial stability.

Turner suggested that a new range of macroprudential tools could be placed in the hands of the new body, and used to ensure that bank lending doesn’t again grow so rapidly and become so risky as to endanger the broader economy. 

source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/13ce71c6-5fdd-11de-a09b-00144feabdc0.html


----------



## gerald.d

DaYFox said:


> Better Homes News
> 
> It seems that the worst may well be over for Dubai property prices. While many experts predicted prices to continue falling throughout the remainder of 2009, several communities have actually increased transaction prices in May and June from a month earlier. This trend isn’t universal – certain communities have continued decreasing – but the universal free fall across Dubai which started in December 2008 has subsided. Indeed, our own State of the Market report predicted prices to continue falling for some time yet, but this is one prediction we’ll be happy to be wrong about if trend has truly changed.
> 
> 
> 
> So what is this assertion based on? Well, the June issue of Better Homes magazine highlighted the price increase at The Springs, where 2-bedroom villas were selling at AED 1 million in April and then 1.2 million in May. The Springs anecdote can now be seen in several other communities which have registered increases in their transacted prices, not just asking prices, month on month. Here are some examples:
> 
> 
> 
> Prices
> 
> Certainly, many other communities are still seeing declines, but current figures are suggesting that now is perhaps a great time to get into Dubai property as a medium to long term investment. With property competitively priced throughout the Emirate, investors’ money can go much further. There are indeed incredible deals currently on the market for opportunistic investors.
> 
> 
> 
> For more information on current market trends and investment opportunities, please contact a Better Homes consultant at +971 600 52 2212 or visit bhomes.com.


Don't you just love totally objective independent market advice.

What they actually mean:



> Better Home News
> 
> PLEASE.
> 
> We BEG YOU.
> 
> We're really suffering here.
> 
> Buy some properties so we can get our commission.
> 
> Please?
> 
> Pretty please?
> 
> Oh go on.
> 
> You know it makes sense.
> 
> For us.


----------



## williteverbebuiltnow

Nakheel May Offer Buyback of $3.5 Billion Sukuk, Barclays Says


This will be an interesting test of market confidence in the DW/Nakheel complex...

Bloomberg News 14:08:55 

“A tender could be launched in the next few weeks,
offering immediate cash payment at a discount,” Alia Moubayed ,
London-based senior economist for the Middle East and North
Africa at Barclays Capital, said in a June 19 report, e-mailed
today. Nakheel may also offer to extend the maturity of the
Islamic bond, or so-called sukuk, “on attractive terms,” she
said.

I.E. sell us back the bonds at a discount (but at too cheap a level) because we have the money right now and there is no sense waiting until Dec...but if you want to extend the term of your loan we will let you do that as well on very good terms....ie we are solvent,look we are offering to repurchase the whole deal early.... why dont you extend????....


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## Ali_Syed

i also received an enquiry for my apartment if i want to sell. which i am not.


----------



## bizzybonita

ACI Investors demand refund of money

*German and Austrian investors are demanding their money back from developers of Nikki Lauda, Borris Becker and Michael Schumacher towers in Dubai.*

The investors had paid a total of about Dh.779.7m into funds to pay for the buildings. The investments were to be repaid from the capital gains.

The investors said that their money due in March is yet to be repaid, and that they are in consultation with lawyers to withdraw their money from the funds.

The investment company behind the project, Alternative Capital Invest (ACI), however, confirms that it has "solid assets", and the towers will go ahead.

The Managing Director, Robin Lohmann, mentioned that the money to repay investors were not available as the projects could not be sold as planned, amid the slowing market conditions.

Instead, he offered the investors with choice of either waiting until the assets of ACI gets liquidated, or choose a property asset owned by another company Falcon International Investment Group based in Dubai.

However, investors fear that if they accept the Falcon option, it may involve additional costs and risk. The investors claim that the ownership of Falcon's assets is unclear, although it is associated to ACI.

One of the investors mentioned that Falcon only speaks about reservation contracts of various properties, and reservation contract is not a purchasing contract.

Lohmann said "With this package, we intended to show people that we have ACI assets, and that in addition we also have in offer a security package through Falcon of fully paid assets, which is almost the double of what was due in March.".

Property buyers who have invested in off-plan apartments of ACI's buildings are also upset about the delays in construction.


----------



## bizzybonita

C/U 30/06/09

http://www.dheerajeastcoast.com/content/Construction-Update-Images.aspx?CUID=274&pID=18


----------



## Imre

bizzybonita said:


> ACI Investors demand refund of money
> 
> Instead, he offered the investors with choice of either waiting until the assets of ACI gets liquidated, or choose a property asset owned by another company Falcon International Investment Group based in Dubai.


it means shares of the Falcon International Investment Group ? 

that is still nothing...

this is the future now? Emaar , Nakheel etc will offer shares for investors instead of building something ?

...

same story in Ajman:

*Al Barakah invites property investors to drop claims*

In the written proposal to investors, Al Barakah suggested creating a holding company that would be based in the British Virgin Islands.

Investors could trade their claims against shares in the company and get refunded after 30 months, the letter said. Investors would hold 70 per cent of the company but no voting rights, while Mr Rajabali's future company would hold 30 per cent and all the voting rights.

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZ...kah Invites Property Investors To Drop Claims


----------



## Hanna

*Property Prices dubai will fall further*

Monday, July 6, 2009
Property Prices dubai will fall further

Source Arabian Business 05 July 2009

More than 60 percent of people think UAE property prices are going to drop by another 20-30 percent this year, according to an online poll.

Arabian Business asked its readers whether they thought the real estate market had hit the bottom, with just 5 percent in agreement.

Instead, some 63.4 percent of people thought there was still another 20-30 percent correction to come.

House prices in Dubai have tumbled 50 percent from their peak during the fourth quarter of last year.

Problems of over-supply and population shrinkage, with thousands of jobless expatriates expected to return home now schools have broken up, will mean continued pressure on prices.

The poll results provide a rather more pessimistic view of the UAE real estate market than a recent Shuaa Capital survey into investor confidence.

The Dubai-based investment bank found that 19 percent of investors believed that the market had bottomed out.

The investor confidence survey, conducted between June 13 and 16, is the only one of its kind in the region. It also found the highest increase in investor confidence, rising 16.8 points to 123.8 points on the month.

However, the Arabian Business poll found that only 6.1 percent of people were optimistic, believing that the market was now on the road to recovery.

While, 25.6 percent played it safe, saying nothing was going to change until the end of the year.


----------



## Mistermark

Hanna said:


> Monday, July 6, 2009
> Property Prices dubai will fall further
> 
> Source Arabian Business 05 July 2009
> 
> More than 60 percent of people think UAE property prices are going to drop by another 20-30 percent this year, according to an online poll.
> 
> Arabian Business asked its readers whether they thought the real estate market had hit the bottom, with just 5 percent in agreement.
> 
> Instead, some 63.4 percent of people thought there was still another 20-30 percent correction to come.
> 
> House prices in Dubai have tumbled 50 percent from their peak during the fourth quarter of last year.
> 
> Problems of over-supply and population shrinkage, with thousands of jobless expatriates expected to return home now schools have broken up, will mean continued pressure on prices.
> 
> The poll results provide a rather more pessimistic view of the UAE real estate market than a recent Shuaa Capital survey into investor confidence.
> 
> The Dubai-based investment bank found that 19 percent of investors believed that the market had bottomed out.
> 
> The investor confidence survey, conducted between June 13 and 16, is the only one of its kind in the region. It also found the highest increase in investor confidence, rising 16.8 points to 123.8 points on the month.
> 
> However, the Arabian Business poll found that only 6.1 percent of people were optimistic, believing that the market was now on the road to recovery.
> 
> While, 25.6 percent played it safe, saying nothing was going to change until the end of the year.


The official story is that prices have bottomed out, and I think the truth is that they did so a month or two ago and there has been a slight uplift. But with people going home at the end of term, then the long hot summer and Ramadan, I think there will be some landlords who find it hard to get tenants who will be selling late this year at prices below current levels. Maybe 20-30 percent is right?


----------



## Rob Timpie

basheer.mohammad said:


> Peter,
> 
> True. There are good number of enquiries on CRW. Did you propose any expected price?
> 
> I did propose 1200 psqft and things haven't moved at that rate. What's your view on this?



Think 1200dhs./sqft is a fair price. I guess they expect you to sell it below market price... hno: (whatever that might be)


----------



## bizzybonita

Platinum 2 Project Delay from Master Developer

May 5, 2009

Platinum 2 has been subject to unexpected delays due to an issue between the Master Developer, Mizin and the Road Transport Authority (RTA). We have been liaising with the RTA, Mizin and Dubai Municipality to seek a resolution on the matter, but as yet have received no indication as to when we can resume works on the site. All owners of Platinum 2 properties will be sent a letter during June that will provide further details on the status of Platinum 2 and the actions we are taking to protect the investment our clients have made in this project. 

http://www.acwholdings.com/construction/home.php?prjID=5


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai property prices should rise in Q4*

_6 July 2009_

*Dubai property prices are provisionally starting to stabilise as the market embarks on the road to recovery, according to Sherwoods Independent Property Consultants.*

*The company expects residential prices to start appreciating by Q4 2009, followed by a year of ‘stability’ in 2010.*

Iseeb Rehman, managing director of Sherwoods says the fall in Dubai property prices has created the potential for good value for money deals for both buyers and investors.

Commenting on the fact that Dubai has recently introduced a series of property regulations and legal framework in an attempt to improve the sector’s transparency, Rehman told the press:

"I think the effort put in by RERA (Real Estate Regulatory Agency)has been extremely positive, but the challenge is to continue to carve out and enhance the regulatory framework and to ensure adherence of the same from all segments of the industry.

“Also, I think they now have to focus on sending positive signals into the market and make sure that the interests of every segment of the real estate industry is taken care of.”


----------



## gerald.d

From July 11th, 200*8*, 05:10 AM



Dubai_Steve said:


> source: http://www.ameinfo.com/163117.html
> 
> *With property prices continuing to rise across the board nearly all of Dubai's residential districts are proving popular with buyers, whether as investment assets or for end users. Both apartment developments coming online in 'New Dubai' and more traditional villa communities are continuing to draw interest. *
> 
> _By Edward Poultney _
> 
> Despite the coming opening of a broad range of new developments, especially in Dubai Marina and Old Town/Business Bay areas, Dubai property prices continue their upward surge.
> 
> Properties at the top end of these markets can now fetch up to Dhs450,000 and Dsh300,00 in annual rental returns respectively (see charts below).
> 
> In addition, with rental inflation continuing to spiral, more and more Dubai residents are taking the leap and purchasing their own homes. The continuing availability of credit for residents has further helped to fuel the demand for newly-completed properties.
> 
> 'Being a growing market, Dubai's real estate growth has been driven mainly by investors but now the influx of people and a growing population has seen an emerging trend of end users buying, with both villas and apartments proving popular,' says Manuela Reis, Head of Residential Sales at Better Homes.
> 
> This is added to the numbers of foreign investors and financial groups who are growing to recognise the Gulf as one of the few markets unaffected by the global credit squeeze - where an investment in new real estate developments brings almost certain double-digit percentage returns.
> 
> *Price increases across the board*
> 
> 'The tremendous growth in Dubai real estate has seen all communities increase in value,' Reis confirms.
> 
> 'The market has received a lot of interest from investors from all over and with demand so high, most of the properties have increased in value.'
> 
> Workers with families are at the forefront of demand for completed villas, and, with the financial boom continuing, the waiting lists grow ever longer - often developments are taken up well before completion.
> 
> 'Villa communities such as the Arabian Ranches, Emirates Hills, The Lakes and The Meadows always sell well owing to the fact that they are completed, have good access, a range of retail and leisure services, local schools, parks and play areas and most importantly for some, a community feel,' says Reis.
> 
> At the top end, the most expensive villas in the Arabian Ranches sold for almost Dhs16.5m in June, while the Meadows saw a top sale of Dhs13.4m. The average sale prices for each of these communities were Dhs6.3m and Dhs8m respectively.
> 
> Areas which remain popular across the market are those which emphasise the 'Dubai Dream' of sunshine and waterfront living.
> 
> *Demand for waterfront properties*
> 
> 'We have seen great demand for waterfront properties such as Dubai Marina, The Palm Islands, Jumeirah Beach Residence, Jumeirah Lake Towers, Jumeirah Islands and even the Green Community, which will include a lake with apartments surrounding it,' Reis adds.
> 
> Confirming this trend, one of the most expensive properties sold in June is on the Palm Jumeirah, going for a slightly over Dhs35.5m. In rental terms this is also at the top end of the spectrum.
> 
> The average annual return for landlords hovers around Dhs432,000 (Dhs885,000 at the top end of the market) for villas, and an average of Dhs190,000 (with an upper limit of Dhs450,000) for apartments.
> 
> The new commercial districts are also seeing leaps in popularity, especially with the added kudos of having regional landmarks on your doorstep, as the trend of living closer to the place of work continues - especially with the amenities catering to leisure pursuits close at hand.
> 
> 'The Old Town development at Burj Dubai is another current favourite,' concludes Reis.
> 
> 'With its central location alongside the world's tallest tower and its close proximity to what will be the world's largest mall, offering a range of entertainment and leisure facilities at your fingertips, it's easy to see why people are snapping up the apartments.'


----------



## gerald.d

(basically, any stories in the press being posted here are about as trustworthy as those being posted from the press almost exactly a year ago)


----------



## amplesou

Ali_Syed said:


> i also received an enquiry for my apartment if i want to sell. which i am not.


Me niether


----------



## basheer.mohammad

amplesou said:


> Me niether


I can see lot of people holding on to their apartments.

any specific reason? anticipation of better returns or just that people want to live in there....


----------



## Morrismarina

paul66 said:


> The rental yield our friend Freestyler will be getting based on his purchase price is 4%. This would be the average realistic yield of 3-5% landlords are achieving in the developed world!


Not sure your making a realistic comparison here though Paul.

Whist I'm sure Freestyler has a fantastic and lovely apartment, the problem here is that it is far too large for a one bed at 1,313 sq ft. No matter how big it is at the end of the day it only has one bedroom and realistically this is no more use than my 771 sq ft one bed in Bay Central. I paid 1m for mine but this does not mean Freestyler will get twice the rent I could charge even though his apartment is nearly double the size. A two bed at say 1,000 sq ft would fetch more rent than his GM one bed.

I don't think therefore your rental yield figure of 4% is realistic of the rental market here as this property is very much an odd size. If I were to get 90k for my BC unit (which by all accounts is likely) then rental yield would be a much more respectable 9%.

This is also the problem with his current value. Even selling to an end user he will struggle to find somebody who wants to pay so much for what is still a one bed at the end of the day, with limited accomodation available (no extra bedroom for family or friends) hence why the value has dropped so much.

I agree best to keep it 5 years then look to sell to somebody wanting a very large one bed. I'm sure it's an amazing apartment although you have to remember it's for a niche market.

P.S. So you think Dubai is not part of the developed world. hno:


----------



## Ali_Syed

for me it will be second home.


----------



## amplesou

*My reasons for _____*

It will be our holiday home !


----------



## Mistermark

I agree with Morrismarina. The key point about Dubai is that rents are driven by number of bedrooms, while purchase prices (and service charges) are based on surface area. The best yields therefore come from owning units that are towards the smaller end of the scale relative to others with the same number of bedrooms.


----------



## Cayman

^^
I respectfully disagree.

In JLT smaller two bedrooms (around 1100-1200 sqft) are being rented at 75K now. These are the apartments in Icon tower, Lake Point tower etc, whereas, larger 2 bedrooms in Seef II and Seef III (2044 sqft) are esily fetching a 110K (which is almost 50% more).

Your perception is along the lines of was what used to be the way in Dubai (especially in the older established areas), but in 'New Dubai', most certainly the space matters.

Another case in point, Type F apartments in Shoreline (2055 sqft) are fetching around 170-180K for sea view and 140-150K for park view, while the smaller types fech a lot less.

When I first came to Dubai (in 1996) I was quite suprised to see people comparing rents based on nothing, but the number of bed rooms and location. Size (square footage) was not a parameter that was even mentioned. I got frustrated with a lot of agents those days, because they did not know the exact size of the apartments they were trying to rent. And they were not lying as the buildings were wholly owned by locals and they did not release these figures. Those days the apatments were classified as "big", "medium" or "small". 

Since the explosion of freehold properties, rental market started a pricing mechanism based on the square footage, as the size informaiton was readily available. Since then, Dubai rental prices are calculated somewhat along the lines of size, like in other parts of the world.


----------



## basheer.mohammad

Sorry to be asking this again

Are there any apartments for rent now in DSC? If so whats the going rate?

Basheer


----------



## jeetha

For that price ^^why bother renting it out. Keep it empty.

Someone I know have whole 5 floors in JBR, which they are keeping empty. They do not want to rent it out. Not for even for 350K 

I would like to do the same with mine.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*The problem with predictions*

by Ahmad Abuljobain

The property crash was inevitable; yet many insisted on boarding the boom-boat anyway.

In retrospect, it is easy for commentators to claim prior suspicion; but no one could honestly predict when a bust would happen, only that the degree of speculation in the market was unhealthy.

Even as promoters set up Cityscape 2008, some developers talked of launching projects at 5,000 AED per square foot only to be shocked at the reality – speculators flocked to the show to sell, not buy. 

Pundits today still insist on penning predictions despite everyone’s failure to foresee the collapse. Financial institutions along with property professionals are happy to oblige that the recovery will happen: a) after summer, b) after the 3rd Quarter, c) January 2010, d) sometime in 2010, e) not before 2011, and some even as vague as f) within the next 5 years.

Over the past year we have been told that prices will drop 30%, 50% and 70%; but the question is compared to what? Projects still under construction have certainly dropped up to 70% since a year ago, but perhaps only 5% in the past month.

The dramatic headlines don’t help tell the true story; and statistically significant transactional data eludes the best experts.

Advertised rates do show a decline but not its depth. For example, Discovery Gardens units listed at an average AED 692 per square foot in the first quarter of this year; but by May/June offered rates were 598/sq ft.

Property in the Dubai Marina went for an average AED 1,373 in Q1, down to 1,237 in the past two months. This time last year the rate was about 2,200/ sq ft. The upper end of the market has remained flat this year at an average offered rate of AED 1,700 in Downtown Burj Dubai (calculated after removing 2 abnormal 7,000/sq ft offers).

The transaction story is different, and therein lies the crux – no one knows how much of the market is “distressed,” the common synonym used to describe desperate sellers. Out of 70 units in the Dubai Marina monitored in May, for example, only 9 (13%) were advertised at 880/sqft or below.

And 5 of those were in just one building the owner of which had to sell urgently at any cost (and reportedly sold at 25% below the advertised rate). The same reality is true of a handful of individual owners who, for whatever personal financial anxiety, want to cut their losses or settle debts; and hence willing to let go of their investment at below their purchase rate.

There are developers too who will offer discounted units for cash. While some, especially those with only a few buildings, may indeed be anxious enough to sell at or below cost, there are others with many projects who may focus more on consolidation and limited units at discount to manage cash flow.

A building owner will logically compromise for cash; but will not concede as much on price if buyers opt for pushing balance payments to completion or structuring payments over installments after taking the keys of finished units.

The property market is currently working the same pricing strategy as the clothing business, but in reverse. Retail outlets often buy shipments at a bulk value. Then they charge premium rates for the apparel until the cost of goods plus profit is covered.

Then you and I see a sale at 50% or 75% off, because it no longer matters at what rate the garments are sold since getting rid of them is more cost effective than storing or disposing of them.

The same principle is in play with property owners; but the discounts are up front rather than after costs are recouped. Which is why no one can predict when the market will bounce back – the market is based on opportunism rather than supply and demand.

It is sadly human nature to find comfort in the failures of others, otherwise tabloids wouldn’t be popular. Yet the negative forecasting and sensationalist headlines are becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, one that impacts the economy as a whole.

The authors of the banks’ or media’s reports are neither insidious nor ill-intentioned; yet they are speculating just as badly as the buyers who drove up prices to unsustainable levels in the first place.

The truth of the matter is the entire economy is reeling, not just real estate: Automotive dealers are drowning in inventory, healthcare clinics worry about patients self-medicating, and shops have seen a decline in trade.

But, equally, there are 2009 models stuck in traffic jams that defy reports of an expat exodus; private hospitals still tend to plenty of sick people; and there are still copious numbers of shopping bags moving from malls to the backs of cars in overcrowded lots.

That these are frustrating, worrying times is obvious. But we must temper forecasts that are too positive or negative because we simply have not lived through anything like this in our lifetimes.

The scale of the financial disaster will only subside when governments inject the economy with liquidity in the form of infrastructure funding and credit; but authorities too need to figure out where to get the money before doing so – be it in exports, bonds, sovereign funds, taxes, etc.

And even when those in leadership do infuse the market, as with any complex surgery, we’ll all have to wait and see if the body goes into remission or rejects the procedure; and if it does, try something new.

That is how America emerged from its Depression; and that spirit of perseverance is one, if nothing else, we can emulate.

Ahmad Abuljobain is the COO of a property brokerage. He was previously Chief Marketing Officer of Tameer and Managing Director of Leo Burnett, Riyadh.


----------



## TerryPop

*JLT OFFICE SPACE-*

There's an article out today- bullish on JLT & the DMCC bringing in end users AKA "renters".

It touts its success at issuing 200 odd licenses so far within JLT.


If each license holder has taken 1 office 

And there are 8 offices per floor (of an average JLT 40 story Office tower)


Then each tower has approx 320 offices for rent.





All I can say is Oh shit :nuts: and the Oh stands for Oh-ver supply coming back side sir.



(incidentally I get that some businesses will take more space then others- but double or treble the above uptake and picture still not great)

-How many towers are commercial there?


----------



## Mistermark

I think the article posted by Dubai Steve is pretty smart, though it omits a key factor: demand, or lack of it, for rental property, driven by the number of ex-pats employed in Dubai and the Emirate's policies on residency visas for the retired and cashed-out entrepreneurs.


----------



## iamici

I m starting to get interested in Seef Towers, so I can get a 2000 sqft apartment for a shade over a million ?

And they are good quality ?

How is the location ? it is in JLT right ?

WHat is the maintenance psf

cheers


----------



## Cayman

TerryPop said:


> -How many towers are commercial there?


I can count over 15 off the top of my head, but I am sure there are plenty more!


----------



## Cayman

iamici said:


> I m starting to get interested in Seef Towers, so I can get a 2000 sqft apartment for a shade over a million ?
> 
> And they are good quality ?
> 
> How is the location ? it is in JLT right ?
> 
> WHat is the maintenance psf
> 
> cheers


The cheapest I have seen is around 1.45M, which I am sure is on a lower floor.

Most are in the market now for 1.55M and above, which is NOT a 'shade over a million' 

As for the finishes, I think they are average but someone in the forum who lives there seems to think that they are great, so I would respect his opinion.

Localtion is quite good, closer to the Dubai-side Metro station in JLT.

Have no idea about the service charges...sorry!


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai Police Nab Real Estate Agent on the Run*

Dubai Police Nab Real Estate Agent on the Run 

source KhaleejTimes

DUBAI — A real estate agent, on the run for nearly a month, was caught by Dubai Police for allegedly issuing dud cheques worth Dh203 million to high  end clients.

Ahmed Thani bin Ghalita, Director of the anti-crime department of Dubai Police said, about 39 people, including top soccer players, had lodged complaints against the man, a British citizen of Pakistani origin.

Ghalita said the complainants alleged that the man had sold them property, for which they gave deposits, and when the deals fell through, the deposits were not repaid as guaranteed. “The police received information that the suspect, who is a holder of a British passport, was trying to escape from the UAE. The police launched a search for the suspect who worked as a real estate broker and who was wanted by Interpol for issuing dud cheques to clients, including soccer players of various teams,” he said.

“The police was informed by employees that the suspect was not living with his children and that he changes his appearance and was not using his mobile phone to avoid being caught by  the police.

“The suspect was stunned when he was arrested by the police in a coffee shop in the Murraqabat area — he thought that the police would not recognise him. The suspect has been on the run for 25 days.”

Ghalita said the suspect, using his work in the real estate company, dealt with clients through the email and online resources so as to avoid providing evidence for an office or home address.

Ghalita would not say which company the man was working for or which property or properties he claimed to be a broker for. 

The department of anti-crime, established by the Dubai Police on September 2008, has approved a number of ways to curb crime, including the investigation of bounced cheques of large sums.

It was a part of this initiative that Dubai Police tracked the 39 complaints issued at various police stations, investigated and arrested the man for issuing bounced cheques worth Dh203 million.

During the first half of the current year the police recovered thousands of dirhams by investigating on dud cheque cases and arrested 278 wanted people.


----------



## gerald.d

Dubai_Steve said:


> by Ahmad Abuljobain
> 
> The property crash was inevitable; yet many insisted on boarding the boom-boat anyway.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> That is how America emerged from its Depression; and that spirit of perseverance is one, if nothing else, we can emulate.
> 
> Ahmad Abuljobain is the COO of a property brokerage. He was previously Chief Marketing Officer of Tameer and Managing Director of Leo Burnett, Riyadh.


I know it looks like I'm picking on you Steve, but it's really not intentional 

Let's look at the track record of Mr Abuljobain whilst we take into account his professional judgement of the market...

Gulf News, April 2007:

http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/04/03/10115542.html



> "Tameer is present in five of the seven emirates and none of these markets have showed signs of a slowdown - *not now and not in the next five years*," said Ahmad Abuljobain, vice-president, marketing, Tameer Holding.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Well spotted, maybe Ahmad Abuljobain has learnt something since April 2007 :lol:


----------



## TerryPop

Cayman said:


> I can count over 15 off the top of my head, but I am sure there are plenty more!


Ok after being directed to the JLT website (thanks for the prompt) there are 34 fully commercial towers in JLT and 20 plus mixed use.

Could be a combined 14000 office units to rent against 200 Licenses issued by DMCC so far.

What is the plan to fill them again? pretty lakes?




Anyhoo




Don't panic- breathe- steady now- RRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNN:lol:


----------



## ash81

could someone give me an average of mantainance charges per sq foot around developments across dubai..(inclusive of cooling charges)

Palm Jumeirah
Dubai Marina
JLT
JBR
Downtown Dubai
Emirates Hills
Lakes
Springs
Meadows
Arabian Ranches
Greens
Green Community
Discovery Gardens
International City
Silicon Oasis

what factors are taken into consideration while calculating these charges?


----------



## iamici

Cayman said:


> The cheapest I have seen is around 1.45M, which I am sure is on a lower floor.
> 
> Most are in the market now for 1.55M and above, which is NOT a 'shade over a million'
> 
> As for the finishes, I think they are average but someone in the forum who lives there seems to think that they are great, so I would respect his opinion.
> 
> Localtion is quite good, closer to the Dubai-side Metro station in JLT.
> 
> Have no idea about the service charges...sorry!


The cheapest I have found is on dubizzle:
Jul 01
JUMEIRAH LAKE TOWER, AL SEEF 3
AED 1,230,000 

but then i realised it was only for 1700 ft. However, the advert is for a high floor.

So after a little negotiation, I believe 1 million or a shade over is feasible. 

I am however, interested to know what the specs and service charges are from a resident, if they d be so kind. 

Lets hope the market drops some more, as I prefer a 2000sq ft one really.


----------



## Porcello

iamici said:


> The cheapest I have found is on dubizzle:
> Jul 01
> JUMEIRAH LAKE TOWER, AL SEEF 3
> AED 1,230,000
> 
> but then i realised it was only for 1700 ft. However, the advert is for a high floor.
> 
> So after a little negotiation, I believe 1 million or a shade over is feasible.
> 
> I am however, interested to know what the specs and service charges are from a resident, if they d be so kind.
> 
> Lets hope the market drops some more, as I prefer a 2000sq ft one really.


Service charges are 9 AED per sq ft this year. PDC and DMCC were calculated separately, though, so you could say that the actual charges are around 12 AED per sq ft. The best feature of the tower is the solid construction; almost every wall and partition is made of full concrete. This, together with the excellent glass insulation, allows us to keep the AC switched off even now and still have max 25 degrees in the apartments.

If you can get the price you are saying, you are very close to the original price per sq ft and therefore I would go for it.

Also, with a small amount of money and a bit of time and patience, the Seef 2br apartments are easily convertible into 3 br.


----------



## gerald.d

Porcello said:


> Also, with a small amount of money and a bit of time and patience, the Seef 2br apartments are easily convertible into 3 br.


Although the people above us are certainly taking their bloody time over it!


----------



## Porcello

gerald.d said:


> Although the people above us are certainly taking their bloody time over it!


Eh eh eh... it takes at least a couple of months, this of course assuming that they know what they are doing.


----------



## Freestyler

chilled water is metered charges? I received meter charges.


----------



## Imre

*Troubled German developer puts Dubai Waterfront towers on hold*

Nathalie Gillet 

Last Updated: July 09. 2009 5:30PM UAE / July 9. 2009 1:30PM GMT Alternative Capital Invest (ACI) Real Estate, the troubled German-owned developer behind projects such as the Boris Becker, Michael Schumacher and Niki Lauda towers, says it will put on hold its developments on the Dubai Waterfront and shift investor holdings to other assets.

Affected projects include the Ferretti and Pershing towers, which have yet to begin construction. The company said it would shift client’s investments in these developments to its towers in Business Bay, which consist mainly of the towers linked to prominent German sport figures. The Becker, Schumacher and Lauda towers are currently under construction but running significantly behind schedule.

In recent weeks a group of German investors in ACI-linked funds, which have financed the developments, complained that the developers have missed payout deadlines. The postponement of the Dubai Waterfront towers comes as ACI is struggling to maintain investor funding that it needs to complete existing projects.

Robin Lohmann, the managing director of ACI Dubai, said in a recent interview slowing payment was having an impact on construction schedules.

*“All our sites [in Business Bay] are under construction,” he said. “But since there are delays in people’s payments, we have had to slow down in order to deal with it. If nobody pays, the risk is that construction stops. This is the last thing that we want.”*

He added that of the 11 projects the company had underway, at least seven were under construction.

[email protected]

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090709/BUSINESS/707099930/1051/rss


----------



## baba toto

Ali_Syed said:


> within 5 years i would say


What about rental income? Will that have to wait for 5 years?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

9 July 2009

Data from REIDIN.com, a research company that monitors Dubai property transactions using data from the Dubai Land Department, shows that just 1,724 properties in Dubai were sold in H1 2009, down 42.6% over the corresponding period last year.

The results for the first half of this year come as house builders in Dubai get ready to release their earnings reports for Q2 of this year.

Dubai property developers are preparing themselves for another tough quarter in Q3, with sales levels expected to remain sluggish.

Commentating on the data, Chet Riley, an analyst at Nomura Securities, told the press: “We are seeing some signs of stability in the underlying market, but crunch comes in the second half of the year, when a number of developments are due. Any development delays, which we are starting to see, will not allow developers to recognise sales revenues and may lead to further analyst earnings downgrades.”

The fact that property prices have fallen by up to 50% across some parts of the emirate has contributed towards the fall in transactions.


----------



## Smokeey

^^ 1724 properties sold in the first six months this year doesn't actually sound too shabby under the circumstances methinks.


----------



## docc

^^ Yea, it was from ACI.


----------



## Imre

Cayman said:


> Imre,
> 
> There was a tower in BB called 'Q-Sami' tower. Is it one of ACI projects? Lot of people advised against buying there and the prices were rock bottom even during the boom time.
> 
> Do you know the current status of this development?


latest pic here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=400699&page=4


----------



## cayman1

I see some tower whith final payment 50% ,70% , if there is in escrow account 50% can the tower to be built ?


----------



## cayman1

And if really there is a pyramid scheme why the Dubai authority has permit this ? I dont know Dubai but i think the laws are severe


----------



## Imre

main problem the bankruptcy law still just dream thats why you can live with debt in Dubai without any problems

RERA is totally useless, Dubai Court is very slow thats why many companies still exist


----------



## Cayman

Thanks docc and Imre.


----------



## 234sale

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/561797-free-residency-visas-for-long-term-gcc-expats---saudi-official

Permanent residency for long-term GCC expats - official



> “The GCC countries and Saudi Arabia cannot dispense with foreign manpower in the foreseeable future. We will continue to need thousands of doctors, pharmacists, engineers, technicians, experts and skilled labor to meet our demand,”



So only another 20 years to go for me..


----------



## Hanna

*Nakheel hits back at ACI Waterfront claims*

Tuesday, July 14, 2009
ACI Real Estate Dubai: Nakheel hits back at ACI Waterfront claims 

source Arabian Business

Master developer Nakheel on Monday hit back at claims made by Dubai property group ACI Real Estate - and insisted its Waterfront mega-project was going ahead.

Robin Lohmann, managing director of ACI Real Estate, in an interview with Arabian Business this week, blamed the state-owned developer for a lack of progress on his flagship Ferretti Luxury Beach Residence and Pershing Luxury Beach Residence projects, located in the Madinat Al Arab area of the Nakheel’s Waterfront development in Jebel Ali.

“We have invested in several plots in Dubai Waterfront. We need to know from the master developer of Waterfront, which is Nakheel, if they plan to go ahead with the project now or not. Once we have these answers we can give to answers our purchasers,” Lohmann said.

But in an emailed statement to Arabian Business Nakheel said it had handed over ACI’s two plots and the company was free to start construction.

“The two plots which ACI own at Madinat Al Arab have already been handed over,” a spokesman for Nakheel said.

"Waterfront has not been cancelled. Our current focus at Waterfront is on Badrah, Veneto, and Madinat Al Arab. Work continues to make good progress at these sites,” the spokesman added.

The Madinat Al Arab phase of the Waterfront is due for completion in 2015. Other sub-developers such as Plus Properties have started construction at Madinat on its Pixel Tower and Wave Residence projects.

“At Madinat Al Arab, we remain committed to providing infrastructure to third party developers as per their Sales and Purchase Agreements. The majority of plots in this phase have been handed over with some third party developers already mobilised on-site,” the Nakheel spokesman added.

Dubai-based property developer and investment company ACI Real Estate, is a division ACI (Alternative Capital Invest) Group, a German firm with interests in asset management and real estate.

The Waterfront is a planned seaside mega project, twice the size of Hong Kong. It is being built over six phases and completion dates range from 2010 to 2018.

Nakheel said in December the Madinat Al Arab, Veneto, Badra and Canal District phases of the Waterfront were pressing ahead, while other sections would be delayed in the wake of the global crisis.


----------



## Cayman

^^
Kettle calling the pot 'Black'!


----------



## Cayman

234sale said:


> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/561797-free-residency-visas-for-long-term-gcc-expats---saudi-official
> 
> Permanent residency for long-term GCC expats - official
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So only another 20 years to go for me..


Finally, there will be someone to use all those unused "disable" parking lots!


----------



## Imre

*Rents in Abu Dhabi fall 35 per cent from March *

Staff Report
Last updated: July 14, 2009, 07:55


Abu Dhabi: Rents in the capital have fallen by 35 per cent from March. 

*According to a report published by Asteco, a property service firm, the sharp fall in the capital rents is fuelled by job redundancies and tenants moving out and opting to move out and look for apartments in Dubai.

Three major factors that are pushing the capital's residents to relocate to Dubai are price, apartment quality and availability of the flats.*

According to the report rents are further expected to drop until year end. 

One of the neighbourhood where the rents have taken a nose-dive is Salam street, which is undergoing a huge redevelopment project while other areas like Khalidiya and the Corniche continue to retain their value. 

The report attributes the fall in rents to the mushrooming of new living spaces such as newly constructed villas and flats ready for occupancy - nearly 500 villas for sale in in Al Raha, a 100 in Khalifa City and an estimated 300 in Sas Al Nakheel. 

Similarly some 20 apartment blocks have also come up in the capital, with more than 600 new units.

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Housing_and_Property/10331378.html


----------



## Imre

Cayman said:


> The cheapest I have seen is around 1.45M, which I am sure is on a lower floor.
> 
> Most are in the market now for 1.55M and above, which is NOT a 'shade over a million'
> 
> As for the finishes, I think they are average but someone in the forum who lives there seems to think that they are great, so I would respect his opinion.
> 
> Localtion is quite good, closer to the Dubai-side Metro station in JLT.
> 
> Have no idea about the service charges...sorry!


you can buy for 720-730 dhs/sqft from the ENI, they have some 2 beds for rent as well .

110-115k/year

http://www.gnads4u.com/doc.html?_a=view&id=5925797

Tamweel Tower handover in progress maybe you can get a good deals there also, I think many buyers can not pay the last payment.

V3 Tower handover soon , many apartments with 50-50% payment plan , so lots of distress sales coming in the next few weeks.


----------



## Morrismarina

How much per sq ft is a nice one bed in Shorelines going for these days, say one with a nice sea view ??


----------



## Adel

234sale said:


> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/561797-free-residency-visas-for-long-term-gcc-expats---saudi-official
> 
> Permanent residency for long-term GCC expats - official
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So only another 20 years to go for me..



In Bahrain you can get a Bahraini citizenship if you completed 25 years in Bahrain and speak Arabic. If you have connections you can get it earlier.


----------



## docc

^^ It's only a matter of time till they start offering citizenship in the UAE. It's a natural progression.


----------



## mackie1964

Morrismarina said:


> How much per sq ft is a nice one bed in Shorelines going for these days, say one with a nice sea view ??


AED 800/sqft to 900/sqft depending on building, views ...etc. Your TT money should get you a decent unit


----------



## Morrismarina

mackie1964 said:


> AED 800/sqft to 900/sqft depending on building, views ...etc. Your TT money should get you a decent unit


Seems a bit cheap to me. :dunno: I'll have two then. :lol:


----------



## gerald.d

*UAE Property prices rise again*

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090714/BUSINESS/707149932/1041



> Property prices in parts of Abu Dhabi and Dubai are registering big increases as buyers regain their confidence, brokers said Tuesday.
> 
> In Dubai, they listed areas where prices had increased by up to 12 per cent last month, while in Abu Dhabi properties on Al Reem Island were seeing increases about 30 per cent in the past couple of months.
> 
> After a lull of about eight months in which average prices fell by up to 30 per cent in the capital and 40 per cent in Dubai, buyers have returned. This is the third consecutive month of price rises, according to brokers, but many bankers and analysts are still cautious about saying the market has levelled out, with some predicting further declines.
> 
> According to Gregory Antioch, a senior sales negotiator at the Dubai property broker Smith and Ken, a three-bedroom villa in The Springs, an established residential community developed by Emaar Properties, that was selling for between Dh1 million (US$272,000) and Dh1.5m in May now has a price tag of Dh2m.
> 
> Mr Antioch said a two-bedroom villa was now priced at Dh1.4m, compared with Dh1m in May.
> 
> He said prices of homes in The Meadows and The Greens, also projects by Emaar, were up by 7 per cent and 5 per cent respectively.
> 
> “People are less hesitant and are prepared to spend a bit of money,” Mr Antioch said. “It’s mostly end-users realising it’s cheaper to buy than rent. Distressed sales have pretty much gone.”
> 
> Buyers started to trickle back into the market in April, when the first signs of price stabilisation emerged. A report by HSBC bank at the end of May said agreed selling prices in the UAE rose 5 per cent in May compared with April, on top of April’s 4 per cent gain on March.
> 
> Last month, Deutsche Bank reported an average price increase of about 6.5 per cent to Dh1,285 per square foot in 13 major locations in Dubai last month, compared with May.
> 
> Brokers say the trend has remained steady with villa prices in some areas of Dubai, such as The Springs, rising between 10 per cent and 12 per cent since May.
> 
> On the Palm Jumeirah, a reclaimed island development by Nakheel where prices fell by as much as 40 per cent between September and November last year, brokers claim prices have risen by up to 20 per cent since a “low point” in March.
> 
> According to Richard Pemberton, a broker at Edwards and Towers, May and last month were the company’s busiest months since about September and October last year.
> 
> Mr Pemberton said a four-bedroom Garden Villa on the Palm is now valued at between Dh7.5m and Dh8m, compared with Dh6.5m in March, while a basic apartment in the Shoreline Apartments is now valued at Dh1.9m compared with Dh1.7m.
> 
> “Once it got to a point where prices had stabilised and didn’t fall for two weeks – effectively ‘the bottom’ – things picked up,” he said.
> 
> “Buyers on the sidelines were waiting for this to happen. Villas that were worth Dh6m or Dh6.5m got snapped up.”
> 
> Mr Pemberton added that most sales were now being driven by end-users – those who buy properties to live in them – rather than speculators.
> 
> “A lot of people who couldn’t afford to rent or live on the Palm Jumeirah a year or two ago are now interested in living there.”
> 
> In Abu Dhabi, brokers said there was an increase in prices and sales last month, compared with April and May.
> 
> According to Mukambar Djurajeva, a property consultant for Engel and Volkers, prices started to pick up after the Cityscape Abu Dhabi property exhibition in April.
> 
> “There was a time when the market was dead, from January to March, with owners putting down their prices during the crisis,” Ms Djurajeva said.
> 
> “But [after Cityscape] they thought ‘wow, I can sell now’, and immediately put their prices up. It was very crazy.”
> 
> For example, prices for a near-completed property in Tala Tower, at Marina Square on Al Reem Island, went up from a low of Dh950 per sq ft in April to Dh1,250 today, Ms Djurajeva said, representing an increase of about 30 per cent. “Now there is nothing less than Dh1,250.”
> 
> Prices of property elsewhere on Al Reem Island are about Dh1,100 per sq ft.
> 
> “But the only thing we are seeing selling on Al Reem Island at the moment is anything around Marina Square, which is about to be finished by the end of this year or beginning of next year,” said Susan Cronin, from Aljar Properties.
> 
> The most expensive project in Abu Dhabi is Al Bandar residences at Al Raha Beach, where properties are selling for about Dh1,400 per sq ft.
> 
> Properties on the rest of Al Raha Beach are being offered for between Dh1,100 and Dh1,200 per sq ft, brokers say.
> 
> “Al Raha Beach is a more demandable area right now compared to Al Reem Island,” said Ammar Asaad, the head of sales at Hamptons for Abu Dhabi.
> 
> “There is also a question of confidence. Al Raha Beach is being developed by one developer, which is Aldar, whereas Al Reem has many developers.”


----------



## Imre

Press release

Immediate release 15 July 2009

*Cityscape paving the way for Dubai’s next chapter*

Dubai’s reality check leads to more transparent business models and considered decisions as new real estate era beckons says Cityscape Dubai organiser 

Worldwide economic upheaval combined with a radical shakeout in the regional investment landscape promise to make Cityscape Dubai 2009 (5-8 October) the most important real estate event in Dubai’s history, according to leading industry experts.

“With tumultuous international circumstances having taken their toll on the Middle East’s most liberalised economy, now is the time to focus on reality and the opportunities that still exist in this most dynamic of Gulf cities,” says scholar, investor and author Dr Christopher M. Davidson.

“There’s no escape from the fact that this year we will be meeting under very different circumstances,” added Davidson author of Dubai: The Vulnerability of Success, and a keynote speaker at the Cityscape Dubai conference. “We are living in a fast changing world, the very foundations of which have been rocked and will continue to be buffeted by unprecedented economic turbulence.”

Times of volatility will eventually be over, Davidson believes. “The growth and vision that has accompanied the rise of this astonishing city is nothing short of phenomenal,” he said. “And that same energy will find a way forward, paving the way for Dubai’s next chapter.”

Cityscape Dubai 2009, now in its eighth year and part of the largest business-to-business real estate investment and development brand in the world, encompasses a major exhibition and a series of conferences taking place at the Dubai International Exhibition and Convention Centre.

Davidson will give a keynote address – 2010: Can Dubai weather the storm? – on the opening day of the main Cityscape Dubai conference. The speaker line-up for the conference is unrivalled in the Middle East, bringing together some of the world’s most powerful investors, developers and economists for five days of discussion on the global real estate market. Included among them is Donald Trump Jnr., President of the Trump Organisation on Dubai: Why it is a long term investment for us.

In 2008, the Cityscape Dubai attracted 80,297 participants and 954 exhibitors. “Clearly, while it is still far too early to make accurate forecasts, we are not anticipating the same level of participation,” said Chris Speller, Cityscape Group Director.

“Like the rest of the world, the real estate investment business in Dubai and the region has had a reality check,” Speller added. “We are now seeing the emergence of more measured, more transparent business models. While considered decisions may take away some of the market dynamism, that is probably no bad thing at this present time.

“With a return to real market values Cityscape Dubai, like its sister event in Abu Dhabi, will return to its roots free from amateur investors and speculators. As such Cityscape Dubai 2009 will be truly business-to-business and the definitive platform with the greatest influence on the real estate industry.”

Alongside the main Cityscape Dubai event is the World Architectural Congress from 5 – 7 October at which some of the world’s most respected architects and visionaries will share with their experiences and outlook on architecture in a global recession.

The Cityscape Dubai Facilities and Asset Management Conference is on 4 – 8 October attracting delegates in the design, build and post-occupancy of buildings. There will also be a Cityscape Dubai “Green Day” on 7 October which will include green communities, green construction methods, energy saving issues, financing green buildings, regulations, facilities management, whole life costs and new materials and products.

For more information about Cityscape Dubai 2009, please visit www.cityscape.ae


----------



## HateTorch

docc said:


> ^^ It's only a matter of time till they start offering citizenship in the UAE. It's a natural progression.


It's only matter of time before they start reversing their words, change their minds, making contradicting statements, putting things on hold etc ... yet again.

Now that is a _more_ natural progression.


----------



## Wannaberich

Hanna said:


> The Sunday times has it's tuppence worth of Dubai bashing
> 
> 
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6716543.ece
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:


Difficult to take crap like this seriously when the writer so obviously hates Dubai.


----------



## Mistermark

DaYFox said:


> So, did u go for it???  Curious to know!


No hno:. Sadly, I found another home for the cash in the meantime, and it could be a while yet before I get my next tranche of liquidity to invest out there.


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai bashing*



Wannaberich said:


> Difficult to take crap like this seriously when the writer so obviously hates Dubai.


Hi

I agree 100% the story about MP expences has run it's course now they
are looking for more easier target's again :cheers:


----------



## docc

Mark,

I'm finding it really difficult to get any properties with 10% yields (post maintenance fees).

Any suggestions?


----------



## Mistermark

docc said:


> Mark,
> 
> I'm finding it really difficult to get any properties with 10% yields (post maintenance fees).
> 
> Any suggestions?


I think the best way is (i) not to rule out JLT, because there the tenant pays the PDC, rather than it being included in the service charges; (ii) to look for buildings with low service charges and apartments that are small relative to the number of bedrooms (in general, Dubai property seems to be sold on the basis of square footage and rented on the basis of number of bedrooms) and (iii) to recognise that there's a huge difference between asking and selling prices.


----------



## Smokeey

Are rents still heading south or are they levelling off in general? If its the former, then I'm just wondering that even if you do manage to find a property that _currently _yields 10% rental income (or thereabouts), chances are the yields will drop further in 3 months or 6 months time, especially now that its harder to find tenants willing to rent with 1 cheque? What do you guys think?


----------



## 234sale

Over the next 6 months I estimate the following residental will be handed over, Burj Dubai 500, Executive Towers 4000, the lofts 500, index and limestone house 500, please feel free to add for jlt and the marina.


----------



## Wannaberich

Mistermark said:


> I particularly liked this phrase: 'a vast architectural experiment conducted by, seemingly, Albert Speer and Victoria Beckham'.


On the other hand you could say a 'vast architectural experiment where architects and designers have the freedom to run wild with their imagination
and create eye catching and wonderous buildings'.
There's two ways of looking at everything.
In the UK of course such buildings and projects would be impossible.Its rare to see anything new constructed that isnt bland and lacking immagination.
Anything out of the ordinary would struggle to get past all of the red tape
and the publics objection to building anything different.Can you imagine trying to build a Burj Dubai in London.Would never get off the ground.


----------



## Hanna

*HH Sheikh Maktoum Hasher Maktoum Al Maktoum - Al Fajer Properties*

Maktoum Hasher Juma Al Maktoum is giving interviews about the sucess but a major real estate scandal is unfolding in Dubai as 500 angry unit buyers and investors in the $630 million Ebony Ivory Towers project demand a full government investigation of developer Al Fajer Properties and its agent Dynasty Zarooni Inc., according to Ebony Ivory Investors Group.”
source Financial Post Misleading advertisements and press releases, overselling of non existing space and the missing down payments are among the buyers’ documented complaints, according to Moses Oye, a British investor and spokesperson for the Al Fajer Properties Investors Group having investors from US, UK, Russia, Iran, India, Canada & Pakistan.“We are calling on Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) and the Dubai Ruler’s Court to investigate the developer, cancel the Ebony Ivory project and compel a refund of our $140 million in down payments,” said Oye.Oye cited a series of fake construction photographs that ran in a local newspaper in July 2008 with Al Fajer Properties logo. The photos showed a structure rising six floors above ground with the following caption: “Shot on location on 10th June 2008, Ebony Ivory, Jumeirah Lakes Towers.” In reality, the photos were taken at another Al Fajer site and currently there is only a hole in the ground at the Ebony Ivory project, according to Oye. “Had we known that Al Fajer Properties was presenting false and misleading photographs, we would never have invested in the development,” he said.“In fact, some investors have already filed criminal cases for misrepresentation with the Dubai Public Prosecutor.”In the past year, there has been virtually no construction on the site, said Oye. In addition, investors have learned that the developer sold approximately 250,000 square feet more space than the maximum built-up area allowed by government permit – another indicator of potential fraud selling air.
Most importantly, Al Fajer Properties paid Dynasty Zarooni Inc approximately $55 million of the $140 million collected in down payments that should have been deposited in an escrow account, Oye said. “We demand our money back and want to know why Al Fajer gave those funds to Dynasty Zarooni rather than use them for construction,” continued Oye.
“The law sets a punishment of imprisonment and fines for any person who embezzles payments made for the purpose of construction of real estate project.” To date, RERA has ignored the investors’ demands of a transparent investigation and the evident violations of RERA regulations and UAE criminal laws in order to serve the interests of Sheikh Maktoum Bin Hasher Al Maktoum and Al Fajer Properties, said Oye. “What do you do when the independent government agency trusted by the Ruler of Dubai to regulate and monitor the real estate developer’s performance actually participates in a cover-up operation that deprives investors of their rights?
What does that say to the world about the security of real estate investments in Dubai? Where is the transparency and accountability Dubai Ruler ordered? Are the laws not applicable when it comes to Sheikh Maktoum Bin Hasher Al Maktoum ?”
“Al Fajer Properties, which is controlled by Sheikh Hasher Maktoum from a ruling family using the government agency platform, continues to mislead the public about their non-existing construction with false reports as evident in their recent press release claiming 15% construction where in reality it is a deserted site with no construction at all.”
Summing up the case, Oye raised grave concerns about the recent threats some of the investors have received and quoted attorney Salim Al Shaali who represents plaintiffs in a criminal case against the Ebony Ivory sales agency for misrepresentation.
In a recent interview, Al Shaali said, “We have full trust in Dubai justice system. I personally guarantee all investors that Dubai government will never allow a few individuals to abuse their social or official positions for illicit profits and damage the reputation of the brand Dubai as a safe and most secure investment hub in the region.


We are waiting for a reply from the prosecution’s office


----------



## joe04

Go visit site or there office ,prepare for surprise


----------



## baba toto

:deadthrea


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai property bottomed out but visible signs yet to appear 










on Wednesday, July 22, 2009

Even though the Dubai property market appears to have bottomed out, it will still take several more months until improvement can be seen, according to a real estate consultancy.

"I believe that the market is in a phase of fragile stabilisation,'' said Mohanad Al Wadiya, Managing Director of Harbor Real Estate Brokerage and Editor-in-Chief of the Harbor Report.

"It is hard to say exactly when we will see an improvement but the general consensus is that this will be in 2010, although the pace and magnitude of Dubai's economic recovery and its real estate industry will be largely dependent upon the global economic recovery and world economic events," he added.

The Harbor quarter report, which will be released by end-July, suggests that even though there have been many positive changes, with governments implementing monetary and fiscal policies, companies restructuring and improving their balance sheets and larger corporations considering merger or acquisition, it will still take several more months to see solid and sustainable improvements.

"When our first quarter report was issued, the general mood was very sombre. Today it is evident that even though the market is stressed, it is certainly not getting any worse, and that in itself is good news. We are starting to see signs that the changes made by governments and corporate institutions to combat the recession are slowly but steadily taking effect. With economists in Japan, China, the US and even Europe talking about 'green shoots' or early signs that a return to economic growth is now on the horizon, it looks promising that we will see things picking up in 2010 ,'' said Al Wadiya.

Via Business24-7.ae


----------



## TerryPop

Wannaberich said:


> On the other hand you could say a 'vast architectural experiment where architects and designers have the freedom to run wild with their imagination
> and create eye catching and wonderous buildings'.
> There's two ways of looking at everything.
> In the UK of course such buildings and projects would be impossible.Its rare to see anything new constructed that isnt bland and lacking immagination.
> Anything out of the ordinary would struggle to get past all of the red tape
> and the publics objection to building anything different.Can you imagine trying to build a Burj Dubai in London.Would never get off the ground.


:applause:


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai properties on road to recovery

With rents and prices stabilizing, few areas in Dubai are seeing early signs of recovery.

*Among the main areas seeing the road to recovery are Dubai Marina, Burj Dubai and Emirates Living. This is largely due to their higher quality and the fact that they are located in a completed community project that seems attractive to people commuting to Abu Dhabi.*

*Those working in Abu Dhabi are increasingly exploring residential units in New Dubai, due to its proximity to Abu Dhabi. Also tenants are seeking units in community developments.*

There is much demand for single and double bedroom apartments and for triple and four bedroom townhouses, said Andrew Chambers, Managing Director, Asteco.

Other established communities such as Downtown Burj Dubai, Jumeirah Beach Residences, and The Springs have received inquiries from tenants, and therefore have been less affected by the rent decline.

The house prices and rent rates in Dubai have considerably reduced during the last quarter reveal the latest industry reports. The apartments and villa prices across Dubai reduced by 15 percent and 13 percent, respectively, on an average.

With the relaxation in finance restrictions and stability in property prices, the Palm Jumeirah has recorded a surge in sales prices for its apartments and villas by 7 percent and 20 percent respectively, during the second quarter, says an Asteco report.

According to the Head of Research and Consultancy at CB Richard Ellis, Matthew Green, the current situation of oversupply, together with weakening demand, both in local and international market, implies that landlords will have to strive extra hard to secure tenancies, contributing to further reduction in rents.

*A four bedroom garden homes on The Palm is now being sold for Dh.6.5million, down from the earlier Dh.14million sold during September 2008, the agents said, during the first quarter.

During the second quarter of 2009, the average rent for studios eased from Dh.61,500 to Dh.45,000, rents for single bedrooms fell from Dh.93,000 to Dh.78,000, while that for double bedrooms fell from Dh.132,000 to Dh.107,000. The triple bedroom apartments rents dropped from Dh.185,000 to Dh.149,500.

The average rent for villas were Dh.119,000 for double bedrooms, Dh.176,500 for triple bedrooms, Dh.233,750 for four bedrooms and Dh.277,00 for five bedrooms.*


----------



## Imre

Two malls introduce parking fees (Staff Reporter)

22 July 2009 DUBAI – Mall of the Emirates and Deira City Centre are to introduce parking fees of Dh 20 for an hour on weekdays for visitors parking their cars longer than three hours, and DH 40 and Dh 60 for first and second extra hours above the first four hours during weekends.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/display...9/July/theuae_July466.xml&section=theuae&col=


----------



## Imre

:lol:

*Dh50,000 fine for violators of 'one villa, one family' rule *

Staff Report 
Published: July 22, 2009, 08:22


Dubai: About 5000 homes have been found violating the ‘one villa, one family’ rule introduced by Dubai Municipality two years ago. 

Engineer Hussain Lootah, Director General, Dubai Municipality said starting next month a fine of Dhs50,000 will be issued to those who are found violating the rule in the emirate. 

He warned that no one should expect a grace period or exemption from next month. 

According to Lootah, the decision to issue fines was decided after the civic body had done all that it could to make people adhere to the rule.

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Housing_and_Property/10333635.html


----------



## Naz UK

I remember Hitler introduced a similar policy when we were in Austria back in the 30's. One country, one race, i think it was. Although his fine was slightly more than 50,000dhs i believe. :sleepy:

It's great to see Mein Kamf still being the inspiration behind modern dictatorships the world over


----------



## TerryPop

*from the noshorenal*

*OFFICE SPACE HUGELY UNDERSUPPLIED*

_Pinochio Real estate's latest report reveals the true depth to dubai's undersupply of commercial office space._

With JLT, IBN Gate,Business Bay & the marina unable to meet demand-the latest trend to satisfy this insatiable need for offices comes from the depth of the car pound.

*Sanjit Mamoneyindsand tells the notional* how entrepreneurial Pinochio real estate is now leasing 'hot desks' in the abondoned car lot in the heart of Jumeirah.

*"there is a preference for MPV's and funnily enough Honda's seem to carry a premium (better airconditioning and leg space)*" Mikar issanoffiss tells us.

Many feel this is preferable to waiting out for the trickle of offices coming our way- ismail Karr tells the notional, and the cars make good work stations to conduct important business.

*Seeing is believing* and with the CEO's booking the convertibles for winter sun we feel this is a good way to promote your business in an accessible way, without *blowing your own horn*.

picture insert

*
Mike hunt reports- Link: http//www.croffice.com/compound/j/pp/*


----------



## Cayman

^^
LMAF


----------



## mackie1964

Interesting info from Carpetking:cheers:



carpetking said:


> Thanks for the pictures Imre,Bonnington Tower is really like a 5 star Hotel.
> I was there last Friday,there was a open day from Engel and Völkers Dubai.
> 
> here ist the website : http://www.bonningtontower.com/Default.aspx
> 
> Rent for a 1 Bedroom deluxe (with two double beds) and 3 a weeks maids-service
> incl.DEWA,Internet fully furnished and one parking space AED 135.000 per year


----------



## Morrismarina

Why would anybody want a bedroom with two double beds ?? :weird:


----------



## gerald.d

mackie1964 said:


> Interesting info from Carpetking:cheers:


Sounds a bit high to me.

We were offered a 2 bed fully serviced apartment in Liwa Heights back in March for 140k.


----------



## 234sale

Dubai rents continue to plunge in July
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/562703-dubai-rents-continue-to-plunge-in-july


----------



## avid

gevorika78 said:


> MAZAYA IS SENDING OVER DUE PAYMENT LETTERS, STARTING THIS WEEK hno:


over-due for what? they asked us to stop payments. could you please advice for which buildings?


----------



## Cayman

^^
That is why I believe this 'new found optimism' in real estate is a bull trap.


----------



## AltinD

Morrismarina said:


> Why would anybody want a bedroom with two double beds ?? :weird:


Imagine a couple, married from something like 25 - 30 years ... both overly obese.


----------



## gerald.d

AltinD said:


> Imagine a couple, married from something like 25 - 30 years ... both overly obese.


That's what 2 bedroom apartments are for!


----------



## AltinD

^^ What if they can't afford it?


----------



## Wannaberich

Morrismarina said:


> Why would anybody want a bedroom with two double beds ?? :weird:


For those couples who cant afford a 2 bed appartment yet want to indulge in some 'swinging' with another couple.
I know he won't admit it but I bet Altin is seriously interested in that place.


----------



## gevorika78

avid said:


> over-due for what? they asked us to stop payments. could you please advice for which buildings?


March and July Payment, building number R051


----------



## carpetking

*2 double beds in a one bedroom apartment*



mackie1964 said:


> Interesting info from Carpetking:cheers:


sorry,there is a 1 Bedroom and a second doublebed in an extra room.:lol:


----------



## mackie1964

gerald.d said:


> Sounds a bit high to me.
> 
> We were offered a 2 bed fully serviced apartment in Liwa Heights back in March for 140k.


I was getting AED136K for one small bedded rooms in the Marina up until last April, sounds like a good price to me :dunno:


----------



## carpetking

a timeplace neigbur told me,you can rent a 2 Bedroom apartment in the Marina area
for less than 80K !

bad times for investors but lets wait one or a half year !


----------



## 234sale

I'm taking on some cheap, Tecom apartments, next to the greens for some staff. 80K for two bed, but its low end building, only 850 sqft so very small.

The interesting consideration is sizes vary so much, 
Studios start at 350 upto 650sqft.
One beds start at 550 upto 1050 sqft 
Two beds start at 750 upto 1250 sqft


----------



## Imre

carpetking said:


> sorry,there is a 1 Bedroom and a second doublebed in an extra room.:lol:


so its a 2 bedroom ?


----------



## Imre

*Dubai property prices 'still too high'*

Angela Giuffrida

Last Updated: July 23. 2009 2:57PM UAE / July 23. 2009 10:57AM GMT DUBAI // None of the eight properties put up for auction by Madania Real Estate on Wednesday night made their reserve price, with potential buyers saying prices are still too high. 

The auction, the second to be held by the property broker in two months, attracted just 30 people, about five of whom registered to take part. 

Bids were placed on three of the properties, with the highest being Dh3.3 million (US$898,000) for a four bedroom villa in The Meadows.


A four bedroom apartment in Jumeirah Beach Residences (JBR) was also popular and bidding reached Dh2.6m.

Although the bids were below the reserve price, the highest bidders were given the opportunity to negotiate a lower price with the seller after the auction. 

While there was some competition among those who took part, indicating their desire to get a good deal, potential buyers felt the asking prices were still too high.


“People are interested in buying at auction if the prices are good, but they are still too high,” said Abdul Rehman Ali, who is looking to buy property in Dubai.

“They should be lower than the market value, which is why people come to auctions.”

Still, the lack of sales on the night has not deterred Madania from holding more auctions, a process that is gathering momentum as a way of pushing sales in a slower environment and gauging buyer sentiment.

Raymond Kuceli, Madania’s chief executive and the event’s auctioneer, said a “gap had been bridged” between the latest auction and the one held in May, with buyers and sellers’ expectations being brought closer together.

“This auction was more about seeing people being more comfortable with actually bidding on real estate,” he said.

“Even though the bids were below market, they were actually bidding up and had a desire to want to buy — two out of three of the bidders said they wanted to negotiate further and I’m confident we’ll sell at least one of the properties.”


Madania plans to hold another auction closer to the Cityscape property exhibition in Dubai in October.

“I know this process will take some time but we’re not going to give up on it,” added Mr Kuceli.

“I believe it works and is the most transparent way of selling property.”

Sherwoods Real Estate also held an auction in June, where just one plot of land out of 25 lots made the reserve price. 

Property prices in Dubai have fallen by about 40 per cent since last October, although there have been recent signs of stabilisation in areas such as Palm Jumeirah, which was one of the hardest hit developments.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090723/BUSINESS/707239984/1051


----------



## carpetking

Imre said:


> so its a 2 bedroom ?


:lol:not really Imre,there is a double bed behind the corner in the
livingroom :lol:


----------



## gerald.d

AltinD said:


> ^^ What if they can't afford it?


They could always cut back on the burgers


----------



## jeetha

*Strange world!*

We had someone only yesterday who wanted 2 double beds in one single room (mother & daughter sharing) but one double bed was not good enough. We offered them a 2 bedroom apartment hno: but she did not want to pay extra.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai sees some rental increases as prices vacillate

Rents in Dubai have continued to vacillate according to area and unit type, with some lease agreements showing marginal growth and others continuing to fall, in some cases considerably, a report on the city's market in July has said. The declines have been blamed on a combination of increased supply and weak demand for specific projects or communities.

'Isolated rental adjustments are symptomatic of specific and transient patterns that are likely to stabilise in the short to medium term,' said Jesse Downs, director of research and advisory services at Landmark Advisory.

'Observers should remember that current price movements are not necessarily indicative of broader market trends. It is still too early to call a price floor.'

Some of the price increases reflect a move by tenants into larger or higher end units than they previously occupied. While rents for two bedroom properties in the Arabian Ranches development fell by between Dhs10,000 and Dhs20,000 - indicating a lack of tenant demand - some rents for three and five bedroom units rose by Dhs10,000 and Dhs50,000 respectively.

Conversely, while rents for studios and one bedroom properties in the International Media Production Zone rose in July, annual asking prices for larger five and six bedroom villas in Al Barsha fell by Dhs60,000 and Dhs90,000 respectively according to the report.

Rents in the Marina and Jumeirah Beach Residence developments on average showed increases during July.

Investor focus
Investors are also beginning to show renewed interest in the Dubai real estate market, with a number of funds and individuals watching pricing developments.

'We are starting to see a reinvigorated interest in the Dubai market, having received some very sharp corrections in the cycle. Investors are beginning to re-look at Dubai,' Ian Ohan, Head of Investment Transactions at Jones Lang Lasalle told AME Info.

'The one thing that happened in the 24 months prior to the correction was that Dubai became an extremely globally expensive city in which to live or be an occupier. With the adjustment in prices, I think that the value-for-money proposition is beginning to be reaffirmed.'

Despite the number of funds that analysts have said are on the sidelines of the market, there has yet to be any substantial investment in many of the city's asset classes. Ohan believes that, although the market will only properly begin to stabilise in 2010, an increase in bullish sentiment will see some deals concluded before the end of the year.

'The reality is that there are very few truly distressed assets that are available to be invested in, but there is a tremendous amount of money on the sidelines. We feel that there will be some pressure to deploy prior to year's end, particularly as there are some areas in Dubai that look like they have begun to bottom out and are starting to see some appreciation. Investors are beginning to anticipate a bottoming out in some areas, and may be concerned about not getting in at the bottom.'


----------



## AltinD

Wannaberich said:


> For those couples who cant afford a 2 bed appartment yet want to indulge in some 'swinging' with another couple.
> I know he won't admit it but I bet Altin is seriously interested in that place.


I am NOT a couple at the moment, plus I already have two bedrooms with a king-sized bed on each ... also floor-to-ceiling mirrors on the wardrobe doors to spice the things up. :lol:


----------



## Monument

*Obesity*

Why is there so much obesity in Dubai and the Gulf in general?


----------



## FARIBA

welcome back rob,
pls tell me which tower is this picture from cts's?
And what do you mean the menon doesn't sell now you mean they have no one that is interested? Do you know what's their price at this time ?

Do you have more pictures ? Thank you


----------



## montranieri

Monument said:


> Why is there so much obesity in Dubai and the Gulf in general?


In Dubai, if you just walk half an hour a day you consider yourself a person who is doing exercise


----------



## googly

I recently came back from a week long trip to Dubai. While the transit areas of the new airport were jam packed, the arrival section was literally deserted. My flight was full, but there were very few people picking up their luggage at the conveyer belt. 

Taxis were also easily available. The new malls (Marina, Dubai) were more or less empty though you counldnt find any parking in the older malls (City Centre, Mall of the Emirates). The older malls were very crowded even on weekdays but I was told that most people were only doing window shopping. 

I had a bad experience with the Dubai Banks (who wouldnt let me make a Bank Draft unless I opened an account with them). The Dubai Courts were decent though and I was easily able to make a Power of Attorney without much issues. 

The Emaar office, where you had to get in a long line in the past, was empty and I thought I would be able to get my work done quickly. Unfortunately, their staff members decreased substantially, so I had to wait a lot. 

Traffic on Sheikh Zayed was less than before (which is making the locals happy). 

Overall, I came away with the feeling that I wouldnt like to move to Dubai anymore as the charm is gone. I guess that could change if the miracle of Dubai repeats itself.


----------



## Grubbman

^^
So you prefer it when there is traffic jams and queues everywhere you go?:bash:


----------



## glover

among women, its the highest in the world, second comes the united states. Among men, its the second highest in the world after the united states. Pathetic.

the gulf definitely needs an anti-obesity campaign similar to the anti-smoking campaigns!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity#Epidemiology



Monument said:


> Why is there so much obesity in Dubai and the Gulf in general?


----------



## TerryPop

googly said:


> I recently came back from a week long trip to Dubai. While the transit areas of the new airport were jam packed, the arrival section was literally deserted. My flight was full, but there were very few people picking up their luggage at the conveyer belt.
> 
> Taxis were also easily available. The new malls (Marina, Dubai) were more or less empty though you counldnt find any parking in the older malls (City Centre, Mall of the Emirates). The older malls were very crowded even on weekdays but I was told that most people were only doing window shopping.
> 
> 
> Traffic on Sheikh Zayed was less than before (which is making the locals happy).
> 
> Overall, I came away with the feeling that I wouldnt like to move to Dubai anymore as the charm is gone. I guess that could change if the miracle of Dubai repeats itself.


Its really weird to hear you say this Googly.. I have been coming out for six odd years and when in Dubai with family (about 2-3 weeks ago) was impressed with how full MOE was and dubai mall.

In fact I was told to stop saying "look how busy it is!" and "Dad, all you think about is money- look at the fountain!" lol!

How funny  two different people- two widely different perspectives- 

I left with confidence restored!


----------



## 234sale

glover said:


> among women, its the highest in the world, second comes the united states. Among men, its the second highest in the world after the united states. Pathetic.
> 
> the gulf definitely needs an anti-obesity campaign similar to the anti-smoking campaigns!
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity#Epidemiology


Isnt 80% of Dubai ex-pats..:lol:

The main issue is that its so hot outside, playing resistance2 online is a lot more fun.


----------



## AppleMac

googly said:


> I recently came back from a week long trip to Dubai. While the transit areas of the new airport were jam packed, the arrival section was literally deserted. My flight was full, but there were very few people picking up their luggage at the conveyer belt.


The vast majority of traffic through Dubai was always in transit - Emirates business plan is built on using Dubai as a hub, not a destination.


----------



## Wannaberich

googly said:


> I recently came back from a week long trip to Dubai. While the transit areas of the new airport were jam packed, the arrival section was literally deserted. My flight was full, but there were very few people picking up their luggage at the conveyer belt.
> 
> Taxis were also easily available. The new malls (Marina, Dubai) were more or less empty though you counldnt find any parking in the older malls (City Centre, Mall of the Emirates). The older malls were very crowded even on weekdays but I was told that most people were only doing window shopping.
> 
> I had a bad experience with the Dubai Banks (who wouldnt let me make a Bank Draft unless I opened an account with them). The Dubai Courts were decent though and I was easily able to make a Power of Attorney without much issues.
> 
> The Emaar office, where you had to get in a long line in the past, was empty and I thought I would be able to get my work done quickly. Unfortunately, their staff members decreased substantially, so I had to wait a lot.
> 
> Traffic on Sheikh Zayed was less than before (which is making the locals happy).
> 
> Overall, I came away with the feeling that I wouldnt like to move to Dubai anymore as the charm is gone. I guess that could change if the miracle of Dubai repeats itself.


So u expect Dubai to be buzzing in the middle of the summer?
Its a bit like coming to London in November and commentating how few visitors there seems to be.
Go back to Dubai in the middle of winter and get another viewpoint.


----------



## AltinD

234sale said:


> The main issue is that its so hot outside, playing resistance2 online is a lot more fun.


I was fatter when I was living in Vienna


----------



## AltinD

Monument said:


> Why is there so much obesity in Dubai and the Gulf in general?


Have you seen the portions the people stuff themselfs with ... and the junk crap food they prefer to eat?


----------



## podium

I don't really think Nakheels May update is much use, its nearly August.
Docc, and any other investors, I drive past the site every day and it looks like they are making pretty decent progress.


----------



## dirtyharry1

That's true... too much low quality junk food everywhere. And if they open something like the Walk in the Marina, the junk food shops are the first to open...


----------



## TerryPop

AppleMac said:


> The vast majority of traffic through Dubai was always in transit - Emirates business plan is built on using Dubai as a hub, not a destination.


Thats very true!

Incidentally Marina mall (I swear on my wife) parking full 1 hr ago.

Why lord? why?


----------



## carpetking

When you are looking for a good Retaurant with healthy food.....

"Arz Lebanon" Dubai Marina on Marina level Marina Promenade "Delphin Tower"

Food is very very good and very cheap.A mixed grill cost 35 Dhs incl. self made arabic bread.Also very good Humus and Fatousch !


----------



## Imre

*Dubai Rents Still Falling *


24 July 2009 

DUBAI - Residential rents in Dubai have continued to fall in July due to weaker demand and increased supply, though rates in some neighborhoods are surging as tenants upgrade to bigger properties, according to data from property firm Landmark Research and Advisory Services. 

Rents in the emirate have declined “considerably” in some cases in recent weeks, and they are likely to drop further, said Landmark Director Jesse Downs. At the same time, the Landmark Advisory’s leasing map for July showed that some locations have experienced rental increases, including Arabian Ranches, Jumeirah Islands and the Greens.

“While relocations show definite trends, rent levels do not. The uneven movement of rents across Dubai points to continued volatility, as the market continues the process of price correction and discovery,” Downs said.

“Isolated rental adjustments are symptomatic of specific and transient patterns that are likely to stabilise in the short- to medium-term. ... It is still too early to call a price floor,” she said in a statement.

New leasing demand is arising from people who are leaving shared accommodations in favour of acquiring their own villas and apartments as properties become more affordable. 

With relocations on the increase, small pockets of Dubai saw marginal rent growth. Relocations from Abu Dhabi and Sharjah were helping to hold up rents in some areas, Landmark said. “When moving to Dubai, Abu Dhabi residents are motivated primarily by location, whereas demand originating from Sharjah centres on price. Al Qusais, however, is a notable exception to the price-driven demand from Sharjah. Due to its close proximity, Al Qusais has attracted many former residents, causing lower-limit rents to increase by Dh10,000-15,000 for all unit-types,” the statement said.

Arabian Ranches is an example of area-specific changes that do not reflect the whole market. Rents for two-bedroom villas in this upscale compound fell by as much as Dh20,000 over the last month, while rents for three-bedroom villas in the same area rose by Dh10,000. Rents for five-bedroom villas in Arabian Ranches jumped by as much as Dh50,000, Landmark said.  Rents increased also at high-quality villas and flats in prime locations such as Jumeirah Islands and the Greens, as people looked to up-size. Upper limits for studio and one-bedroom rentals increased in areas such as IMPZ and the Views, while upper-limit rents for five- and six-bedroom villas in Al Barsha dropped by Dh60,000 and Dh90,000, respectively. Rents increased across the board at Jumeirah Beach Residence. 

Rents there for studios and three-bedroom units rose by Dh10,000 and Dh30,000-45,000, respectively. Jumeirah Islands also saw higher rents, with four-bedroom rents rising by Dh10,000-20,000, and five-bedroom rents climbing by Dh40,000-60,000, Landmark said. 

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/ins...09/July/business_July750.xml&section=business


----------



## Spurs

carpetking said:


> When you are looking for a good Retaurant with healthy food.....
> 
> "Arz Lebanon" Dubai Marina on Marina level Marina Promenade "Delphin Tower"
> 
> Food is very very good and very cheap.A mixed grill cost 35 Dhs incl. self made arabic bread.Also very good Humus and Fatousch !


I second that! Good and well priced!


----------



## High Times

I said this would happen back in 2007, and again 3 months ago. :cheers:



High Times said:


> One thing I am more certain of now than I was when arguing the same point back in 2007 is that *the masses of studios and 1 beds that currently saturate the market will loose their appeal to the new breed of tenant who now hold the upper hand when negotiating their next tenancy agreement. 2 and 3 bed units will be more in demand in the future*, 3 beds especially in my view as there are far fewer of them that have been built due to the fact they were harder to sell to speculators.


 


Imre said:


> New leasing demand is arising from people who are *leaving shared accommodations in favour of acquiring their own villas and apartments* as properties become more affordable.
> 
> *Rents for two-bedroom villas in this upscale compound fell by as much as Dh20,000 over the last month, while rents for three-bedroom villas in the same area rose by Dh10,000.* Rents for five-bedroom villas in Arabian Ranches jumped by as much as Dh50,000, Landmark said.  Rents increased also at high-quality villas and flats in prime locations such as Jumeirah Islands and the Greens, as people looked to up-size.


This will continue and there will be a glut of studios and 1 beds in the future. Moore proof of the end of a speculators market and the emergence of an end users market.

Using Dubai Marina as an example. What *Luxury development* would ever consist of the following ratios of appartments;

Studios/1 beds = 50%
2 beds = 35%
3/4 beds = 10%

It just doesnt work. The whole concept of creating a luxury city within a city and then piling the shelves high with studios and 1 beds is fundamentaly flawed. If you look at other global property hotspots that have been developed as a "luxury brand" such as Marbella, Monaco, Londons waterfront property, Miami, Sydney etc. They all cater for larger family appartments rather than smaller broom cupboards.

Again, a total lack of understanding, thought, and planning by the master developer allowing sub developers to "build what sells" rather than "build what's needed" in a mature market.

There may be a vision here, but the execution is simply poor. Schoolboy errors being made by those with the authority to make things happen. Thats what happens when you employ people to say "yes sir", and bosses are recruited depending on who their brother in law is.


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> The whole concept of creating a luxury city within a city and then piling the shelves high with studios and 1 beds is fundamentaly flawed. If you look at other global property hotspots that have been developed as a "luxury brand" such as Marbella, Monaco, Londons waterfront property, Miami, Sydney etc. They all cater for larger family appartments rather than smaller broom cupboards.


The difference with Dubai is that there are alot of low paid workers who can not afford any more than a studio/1bed.
There are also alot of young single people with average jobs who only want these type of properties.


----------



## mackie1964

*Sheikh wants to buy Bangor City*

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/24072009/58/sheikh-wants-buy-bangor-city.html


----------



## High Times

Wannaberich said:


> The difference with Dubai is that there are alot of low paid workers who can not afford any more than a studio/1bed.
> 
> There are also alot of young single people with average jobs who only want these type of properties.



You are missing the point *AGAIN* !! :bash:

That was the exact same reply you gave back in May to my above quoted post.

When you have population contraction (less demand) and unit growth (more supply) it effects any market in a bottom up direction.

It is irrelevant who is left in the country, from what country they originate, and how much they earn.

The simple fact is they have MORE CHOICE and MORE CONTROL over where they live. "More bang for their buck" as the yanks would say. It is human nature to aspire to own/rent (live in) bigger and better properties.

Using a car analogy. If a garage has 10 cars for sale ranging from Fords to Ferrari's. If the value of cars fall, and the ability of buyers to purchase cars improve, then it's the car at the bottom of the pile that wont get sold because human psychology is to (trade up) in life and so everyone moves up a rung on the ladder. Whatever is left at the bottom of the ladder is surplus to requirements


----------



## hpm

Do anybody have update on this project? Are they delivering in Dec'10. I took a flat in Bldg.1, based on loan (100%) and now I am away from Dubai. Any suggestions how to handle with Bank....in view of much delay on construction and handover dates. My point is who will pay additional interest to bank?


----------



## Rob Timpie

FARIBA said:


> welcome back rob,
> pls tell me which tower is this picture from cts's?
> And what do you mean the menon doesn't sell now you mean they have no one that is interested? Do you know what's their price at this time ?
> 
> Do you have more pictures ? Thank you


Hello Fariba, 

This is CT4. I put pictures on the other CT-forums with updates.
With Memon doesn't sell I mean at this moment buyers are mainly interested in finished apartments, not in apartments that are being build.
Think at this moment prices are AED 1100,- to 1150,-/sqft. But I'm sure in a few years DSC will be one of the most expensive areas in Dubai. :banana:
Mark my words! :cheers:


----------



## Mistermark

High Times said:


> You are missing the point *AGAIN* !! :bash:
> 
> That was the exact same reply you gave back in May to my above quoted post.
> 
> When you have population contraction (less demand) and unit growth (more supply) it effects any market in a bottom up direction.
> 
> It is irrelevant who is left in the country, from what country they originate, and how much they earn.
> 
> The simple fact is they have MORE CHOICE and MORE CONTROL over where they live. "More bang for their buck" as the yanks would say. It is human nature to aspire to own/rent (live in) bigger and better properties.
> 
> Using a car analogy. If a garage has 10 cars for sale ranging from Fords to Ferrari's. If the value of cars fall, and the ability of buyers to purchase cars improve, then it's the car at the bottom of the pile that wont get sold because human psychology is to (trade up) in life and so everyone moves up a rung on the ladder. Whatever is left at the bottom of the ladder is surplus to requirements


I agree partly with you and partly with Wannaberich. Taking your car analogy, if the price of cars falls, it's true that people will shun Ford Kas, but not all of them will buy Audi Q7s (ie something really large). People who need the space may do this, but others will buy Ferrari F430s because they prefer performance/bling.

In the case of the Dubai property market, I think the scare of the economic contraction that happened around the turn of the year has scared away a lot of families. It's one thing to go to a country where you earn a big salary, tax-free, but might lose your job and have to leave at the drop of a hat if you're single, or in a childless couple, but another entirely if you have kids in private schools.

So for the next few years I think Dubai will become more of a singles/young couples expat market than in recent years, which I think will mean there will be more demand for average-sized but bling apartments than family villas or huge apartments.

That said, using the bling analogy I think it could get harder to rent studios, because the cost differential to larger units has reduced. Actually I think the 2-bed, 2-bath will be the most in-demand option, because it can be a luxurious option for a single or couple, who gain a study or guest room for friends visiting from back home, combined with a cost-effective choice for newcomers (two singles or couples can live in a 2-bed more cheaply than in two 1-beds).


----------



## baba toto

Rob Timpie said:


> Hello Fariba,
> 
> This is CT4. I put pictures on the other CT-forums with updates.
> With Memon doesn't sell I mean at this moment buyers are mainly interested in finished apartments, not in apartments that are being build.
> Think at this moment prices are AED 1100,- to 1150,-/sqft. But I'm sure in a few years DSC will be one of the most expensive areas in Dubai. :banana:
> Mark my words! :cheers:


That may well be the case, but the whole question is when! After countless years???


----------



## Pleth

I am in need of a 2 bedr. apartment to rent in Dubai near the creek or near Sharjah.
With pool facilities, but at the low cost end.
Please pm me, if you know of any? Or any good estate agents.


----------



## naukhez

*Issues with la-Vista: Let us combine forces*

Dear HPM,

I spoke to them and the situation is not good. The project is on-hold. I want more investors with me to take them on. Have had atleast 2-3 shouting matches over the phone with them. The new date is March 2010 as per my telecon, which is not possible at all with this rate of construction.

I am finding difficult to find investors who have invested in La-Vista. Please email me on my private email '[email protected]' to discuss this further. If anyone out here is in touch with investors in La-Vista please ask them to get in touch at the email provided.

Best Regards,

Naukhez



hpm said:


> Do anybody have update on this project? Are they delivering in Dec'10. I took a flat in Bldg.1, based on loan (100%) and now I am away from Dubai. Any suggestions how to handle with Bank....in view of much delay on construction and handover dates. My point is who will pay additional interest to bank?


----------



## MikeMuz

baba toto said:


> That may well be the case, but the whole question is when! After countless years???


If your in it long term then i'm sure it'll be worth the wait..!!!:banana:

If your in it for a quick flip then it may not be worth ithno: ^^ :bash:


----------



## FARIBA

Thanks rob,
so finally they've started building for ct4 and i hope they don't delay more than they already have. Iwas hopeing to enjoy my apt after may 2010 the date they gave us two years ago obviousley is not going to happen.

Maybe by 2012 we will see our investment built.


----------



## AppleMac

High Times said:


> The whole concept of creating a luxury city within a city and then piling the shelves high with studios and 1 beds is fundamentaly flawed. If you look at other global property hotspots that have been developed as a "luxury brand" such as Marbella, Monaco, Londons waterfront property, Miami, Sydney etc. They all cater for larger family appartments rather than smaller broom cupboards.


Yes but all of those destinations have a more settled population - Dubai has a very high transient population due to the fact that most of the employment is contract rather than permanent and also the lack of residence visas not tied to employment.

As such it will appeal more to singles and couples rather than families.


----------



## Rob Timpie

FARIBA said:


> Thanks rob,
> so finally they've started building for ct4 and i hope they don't delay more than they already have. Iwas hopeing to enjoy my apt after may 2010 the date they gave us two years ago obviousley is not going to happen.
> 
> Maybe by 2012 we will see our investment built.


Fariba,

I spoke to some large investors in Dubai (one of them had bought over 15 apartments in several projects)..
They told me to be happy the tower isn't finished yet, because due to delays in other projects in DSC it's not possible to live in the apartment. Nobody is living yet in other towers that are finished, because of all construction works around them."
I think that's true. So I think in 2012, when DSC is almost finished, we will be able to live there.


----------



## baba toto

Rob Timpie said:


> Fariba,
> 
> I spoke to some large investors in Dubai (one of them had bought over 15 apartments in several projects)..
> They told me to be happy the tower isn't finished yet, because due to delays in other projects in DSC it's not possible to live in the apartment. Nobody is living yet in other towers that are finished, because of all construction works around them."
> I think that's true. So I think in 2012, when DSC is almost finished, we will be able to live there.


I think this is absolutely true, but ofcourse if I had known this before, I wouldn't have invested back in 2007 and expected completion by 2009!!.......I would have invested in a ready property and enjoyed the rent over 5 years instead!! (say £15000 x 5 yrs = £75000 lost over the wait!!!! :bash:


----------



## Imre

some new adverts from the Gulfnews today:

Dubai Marina, Marina Wharf, Apartment, 2 BR AED 975,150 
Dubai Marina, Al Sahab - 1 BR, 1000 Sq.Ft. AED 1 million 
Dubai Marina, Marina Quay West, 1 B/R AED 1 million 
Marina, Waves Tower A, 1 B/R, 1,045 sq.ft. AED 890,000 
Dubai Marina, Dorra Bay - 1 B/R AED 850,000 
Dubai Marina, Blakely - 1 B/R AED 900,000 
Dubai Marina, Marina Quay West, 1 BR AED 808,888 
Dubai Marina - Marina Quay, 1 BR AED 875,000 
Marina Promenade, 1 B/R, 2 Baths AED 1 million 
Dubai Marina, Blakely, 1 Bed AED 900,000 
Dubai Marina, Blakely, 1 Bed AED 891,888 
Dubai Marina, Marina Heights, 1 Bed AED 760,000 
Dubai Marina, Park Island - Sanibel, 1 BR AED 1 million 

BURJ DOWNTOWN – SOUTH RIDGE 1 - 1 B/R AED 895,000 
Downtown Living, Burj Views, 1 B/R AED 985,000 

cheapest studio in the Marina is 40K/year (Marina Diamond)

Liberty House , DIFC rent prices (fully furnished):

studio 60-70K
1 b/r 95-105K
2 b/r 145-155K


----------



## mackie1964

Imre said:


> some new adverts from the Gulfnews today:
> 
> Dubai Marina, Marina Wharf, Apartment, 2 BR AED 975,150
> Dubai Marina, Al Sahab - 1 BR, 1000 Sq.Ft. AED 1 million
> Dubai Marina, Marina Quay West, 1 B/R AED 1 million
> Marina, Waves Tower A, 1 B/R, 1,045 sq.ft. AED 890,000
> Dubai Marina, Dorra Bay - 1 B/R AED 850,000
> Dubai Marina, Blakely - 1 B/R AED 900,000
> Dubai Marina, Marina Quay West, 1 BR AED 808,888
> Dubai Marina - Marina Quay, 1 BR AED 875,000
> *Marina Promenade, 1 B/R, 2 Baths AED 1 million *
> Dubai Marina, Blakely, 1 Bed AED 900,000
> Dubai Marina, Blakely, 1 Bed AED 891,888
> *Dubai Marina, Marina Heights, 1 Bed AED 760,000 *
> Dubai Marina, Park Island - Sanibel, 1 BR AED 1 million
> 
> BURJ DOWNTOWN – SOUTH RIDGE 1 - 1 B/R AED 895,000
> Downtown Living, Burj Views, 1 B/R AED 985,000
> 
> cheapest studio in the Marina is 40K/year (Marina Diamond)
> 
> Liberty House , DIFC rent prices (fully furnished):
> 
> studio 60-70K
> 1 b/r 95-105K
> 2 b/r 145-155K


Thanks Imre, some good bargains here :cheers:


----------



## Imre

dont know its true or not just heard there is almost zero transactions..

Press Release

*Property prices in Jumeirah Village climb by up to 30 per cent since January ‘09*

Memon Investments’ ‘Gardenia I & II’ project offers high-value units within Jumeirah Village community development

July 26, 2009

Property prices in Jumeirah Village have climbed by 5 to 30 per cent from their low levels in January this year, according to recent reports, signifying an early recovery for the Dubai property market, which has witnessed a nine-month period of decline. Driven by its commitment to offering high-value units within the Dubai’s most luxurious community developments, Memon Investments, a leading Dubai-based property developer and part of the international business conglomerate, the Memon Group of Companies, is fast-tracking the construction of ‘Gardenia I & II’ - a project strategically located in Jumeirah Village. Master developed by Nakheel, Jumeirah Village is set to provide authentic Mediterranean-inspired residential, commercial and retail space.

According to recent reports, the 811-hectare integrated master community has not been impacted to the same degree as the large number of residential properties in various locations across Dubai, and thereby presents a more profitable investment option for property purchasers today. Consequently, an increasing number of investors are reportedly looking at Jumeirah Village for a more solid investment opportunity with a lower risk percentage. As one of the first to develop within the Jumeirah Village development, Memon Investments has reported increased demand and inquiries for its ‘Gardenia I & II’ project.

“Our capacity to identify the best master developments to build our projects in, not only in terms of facilities and prestige but more importantly in their potential to provide excellent investment returns, is the foundation of our strength as a developer,” said Ahmed Shaikhani, Managing Director, Memon Investments. “We take pride in bringing to customers a variety of property units that address their requirements in luxury and style; however, we believe that we have also proven ourselves as an organisation that is dedicated to fulfill our promises to our clients amidst the rise of difficult challenges.”

Located near the Cultural Centre and the renowned Central Park, Memon Investments’ 5-storey residential development will incorporate studios, one and two-bedroom units; lavish townhouses and loft apartments, with retail units on the ground floor. Based on the vision of Dimensions Engineering Consultants (DEC), it was splendidly designed with stuccoed walls, tiled roofs, rustic arches, solid wrought iron balcony grills, carved doors, ornamental spiral columns, marble flooring and thematic and floral patterns. Two leading suppliers and contractors are also collaborating for the project, including the International Foundation Group (IFG), who is undertaking the AED 2.4 million shoring and excavation contract; and Shanghai & Arabian Electromechanical LLC (SAE), who will install high-speed elevators within the towers.

“The first of our projects in the ‘Gardenia’ series remains one of the most-awaited developments in Jumeirah Village, and we would like to reiterate that we are consistently up to the challenge of satisfying the ever-discerning tastes of our target market. We are proud of how long we have achieved in the construction process of this excellent development, which is due to our collaboration with some of the best construction partners in the region,” concluded Shaikhani.


----------



## True Blue

Prices in the marina just seem to be getting lower. We hope this is the last of the "bargains" before things pick up again after Ramadan, fingers crossed.

I also note that Alineah.com price index for the marina was frozen when it dropped to 1450AED/ft2. They have stopped updating the data since it fell below this floor. A definite case of oversupply, so what we need is demand and that is where the authorities need to act.


----------



## True Blue

*Improve the beaches;*


If we look back at the begining of the property growth in Dubai and the original concept of why they needed the Palm islands, it was all about increasing coast lines and beach space. 

Since the completion of the Palm Jumeirah and JBR area it has become more evident that there is no additional beach access for people who have invested in the freehold residential areas of Dubai. The government need to address this issue and complete more beaches with better facilities for the public in general. Areas previously reserved for beach hotels should be de restricted and openend to the public with the responsibility for maintenance passed to the municipality.

The JBR area is a joke considering that the main development of the JBR towers and the marina district is now occupied by end users who don't have a clean, serviced beach with proper toilet, changing and showering facitities. No refreshment stands or lifeguards.

This was the situation on my last visit six months ago and I don't expect it will be much different today. Why would anyone want to plan a trip to Dubai to live in the JBR/ Marina district knowing they only have a basic beach with restricted access and no facilities whatsoever?

One of the boxes that has yet to be ticked by the authorities, get it sorted now and give Dubai a chance to recover.


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> Prices in the marina just seem to be getting lower. We hope this is the last of the "bargains" before things pick up again after Ramadan, fingers crossed.


without residence visa people will not buy from India,Pakistan, Iran,China,Russia etc.. so thats why prices will go down in the next months as well.

The 6 months visa is just a promise , still ON HOLD, nothing happening.

Rental yields also going down , at the moment no reason to invest money in properties of UAE.


----------



## mackie1964

Imre said:


> welcome ,you can buy more if you want
> 
> from the GN:
> 
> Dubai Marina, Iris Blue, 1 Bedroom AED 1,050,000
> *DUBAI MARINA, Iris Blue, 2 B/R AED 1.2 million *
> Dubai Marina, Marina view (A), 1 B/R, AED 950,000
> 
> Dubai Marina, Dorra Bay - 1 B/R AED 850,000
> 
> Bay Central For Sale: Dubai Marina, Selling 10% less than O/P, O/P DHS 976,000. Great deal at AED 878,400
> 
> some good deal on the expatriates.com and dubizzle.com as well.
> 
> 
> Rental prices at the JLT still going down, 55-60-65 dhs/sqft/year now but still no takers.



Can't find this one Imre. Where have you seen it? :cheers:


----------



## Imre

mackie1964 said:


> Can't find this one Imre. Where have you seen it? :cheers:


http://www.gnads4u.com/doc.html?_a=view&id=5849453


----------



## Smokeey

The 2Br one in Iris Blue is a misprice - I emailed the agent a few weeks ago about it. Supposed to be 2.2 million instead of 1.2 million


----------



## mackie1964

Smokeey said:


> The 2Br one in Iris Blue is a misprice - I emailed the agent a few weeks ago about it. Supposed to be 2.2 million instead of 1.2 million


I think they do it on purpose :bash:
I called a couple of others over the last few days and they were only interested in getting your contacts and selling you something else.hno:


----------



## Mistermark

I hear the Mail on Sunday's You Magazine ran a demolition piece on Dubai yesterday. Unfortunately I didn't see it, and I don't believe the magazine content goes on the website. Does anyone here have a copy of it they could scan and email me? If so, please PM me.


----------



## mackie1964

There was one today too in the times

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article6728160.ece


Even the United Arab Emirates, including Dubai, saw numbers plummet by a third, to 127,000. 
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article6729092.ece


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*DAMAC report*

We talk to the unhappy British investors who have yet to see a return on their money in the Dubai property market.

Some wanted quick returns.Others wanted a nice apartment in the sun.

But some British investors have got considerably less than they hoped for when they put their money into the booming Dubai property market.

Many people this program has spoken to are angry and concerned about the future of their properties.

Our business reporter John Sparks has been to Dubai and has this exclusive report. 

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/business_money/dubai+from+boom+to+gloom/3286157


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Buyers return to Dubai property market, with caution*

Clive Frost is determined to wait to fulfil his dream of buying a home on Palm Jumeirah, even though villa and apartment prices there have fallen by almost half of what they were a year ago.

Mr Frost, who has lived in Dubai for 20 years after moving from the UK, is still waiting for property on the reclaimed island to reach a “realistic” level.

“I was going to buy there a couple of months ago, but felt the prices were being talked up,” he says. “I would buy on Palm Jumeirah tomorrow if the prices were more realistic.”

But other prospective buyers into the emirate’s property market see a window of opportunity closing.

“I don’t think we’ll get these prices at any other time,” says Graham Dixon, who has lived in Dubai for six years. “I’ve made up my mind to buy and will try and negotiate as much as possible.”

Whether buyers are prepared to wait or not, their desire for Dubai property is helping prices in certain areas creep up from what property agents call their “lowest point”, in March.

A four-bedroom garden villa on Palm Jumeirah is now listed at between Dh7.5 million (US$2m) and Dh8m, compared with Dh6.5m in March, while a basic apartment in the Shoreline Apartments carries a price tag of Dh1.9m, compared with Dh1.7m in March.

Similar increases have been seen in popular communities such as The Springs and The Meadows.

But the price movement does not necessarily reflect a rise in sales activity. In fact, property sales in Dubai fell in the first half of this year by more than 40 per cent compared with the same period last year, according to REIDIN.com, which tracks property with data from the Dubai Land Department.

There were 1,724 sales in the first half of the year, a 42.6 per cent drop from the same six months last year.

“I think what happened was that we got to a stabilised point,” says Raymond Kuceli, the chief executive of the property agent Madania Real Estate.

“Buyers created some confidence and sellers thought that was the point they could get a bit more, simply because that’s what they were used to. The Dubai market has always been rise, rise, rise.

“Because there were a few active buyers … when offers were made that were very close to where the prices were listed, the owner would put the price up,” Mr Kuceli says.

After a period of about six months when business ground to a halt, Mr Kuceli says last month was busy for his agency. As interest from buyers picked up, so did prices.

Deutsche Bank reported an average price rise of about 6.5 per cent to Dh1,285 per square foot in 13 major locations in Dubai last month, compared with May. But many bankers and analysts are wary of saying the market has levelled out, and some are predicting further declines.

Buyers are slowly regaining their confidence, agents claim, and with bank lending still limited they are mostly coming with cash in hand.

They are after completed properties in quality developments and good locations. Put simply, they are searching for properties that they once could not afford.

Abdul Rehman Ali is one such buyer, but he is also a knowledgable investor. Mr Ali does not call himself a speculator but he is part of a group on the lookout for what he calls “distressed properties” – homes they can buy cheaply to rent or sell when prices recover.

He is not deterred by falling rents but is closely watching developments where people want to live, such as The Springs, The Meadows, Jumeirah Beach Residences and Palm Jumeirah.

“We know, because of the recession, prices have fallen and demand has fallen, but at the same time we have an opportunity to buy properties at a lower rate,” says Mr Ali. “If we keep them for a year or so, we will get more by the time it comes to sell.

“During that time you can rent the property out. In the boom, values appreciated between 25 per cent and 40 per cent a year but now, even if you get just 5 per cent and rental yield is 10 per cent, you still make 15 per cent.

“I’m still confident in Dubai. There are a lot of multinational companies who still want to move here.”

With the expatriate population in Dubai expected to fall by 8 per cent this year, according to the Swiss bank UBS, and an estimated 30,000 new units due to come on line between now and the end of next year, the market is counting on people like Mr Ali to lead a recovery.

Agents also expect more investors to come forward after Ramadan.

“Certain communities have started climbing a bit but I don’t see any big improvement until after Ramadan,” says Thomas Bunker, an investment sales consultant at Better Homes.

“Historically, many Arabs, especially in Saudi Arabia, get a lot of their money from businesses and governments around that time,” Mr Bunker says. “When they get that inflow of cash they like to invest it, and traditionally they like to do so in Dubai property.

“For the last eight months to a year, people have been watching the prices drop and are waiting for them to bottom out before they get back into the market.”

While Mr Bunker expects the extra activity to increase prices, the rises will not be felt across the board.

“There are a lot of projects by lesser developers that are lower in quality, and where the location and quality are not as good,” he says. “I think these projects will suffer for a while. A lot of the attention is going to be on quality buildings that are now affordable for people, compared to this time last year.”

Until then, the “cooling off” period will see sellers’ and buyers’ expectations drawing closer together, Mr Bunker says.

“Buyers paid through the nose before, so when the market turned they took advantage of it,” he says. “We’ve spent a lot of time trying to find properties for these people, who have been as aggressive as they could to drive the prices down, and they’ve succeeded.

“But now it seems we’re sort of in a half-half situation, where neither seller nor buyer has the power.”


----------



## 234sale

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090728/NATIONAL/707279810/1010
Gulf News hit with £1m UK judgment


----------



## mrobbie

"“We will not be paying it,” said Abdul Hamid Hamad.“We are not going to appeal. We decided from the outset that we would not defend ourselves in this case.

“We respect any court in the world, but this decision was not made in the UAE and therefore we will not honour its decisions.”"

...Wonder if the same response is acceptable from all the supposed expats who did a runner, leaving debs here in Dubai?? 

"Yes, I understand that I left a car loan unpaid, along with several bounced cheques for rent, and massive credit card bills. But I am in the UK and this decision was not made in the UK... so go take a running jump!"


----------



## AltinD

234sale said:


> I'm 33, middle professional earn 4,500 gbp a month and renting a 1bed in the old town basically gives me zero savings, but its worth it.


How much of that is spent on the three kittie-kitties?


----------



## TerryPop

mrobbie said:


> "“We will not be paying it,” said Abdul Hamid Hamad.“We are not going to appeal. We decided from the outset that we would not defend ourselves in this case.
> 
> “We respect any court in the world, but this decision was not made in the UAE and therefore we will not honour its decisions.”"
> 
> ...Wonder if the same response is acceptable from all the supposed expats who did a runner, leaving debs here in Dubai??
> 
> "Yes, I understand that I left a car loan unpaid, along with several bounced cheques for rent, and massive credit card bills. But I am in the UK and this decision was not made in the UK... so go take a running jump!"


:hilarious


----------



## 234sale

AltinD said:


> How much of that is spent on the three kittie-kitties?


Each months

About 4 packets of coley filets, 200, 
6 packs of MS prawns, 300AED 
Litter 200 AED 
Obesety Biscutes 100 AED
Other stuff 200
So 1000 a month,, 

eek...


----------



## Imre

*Press release*

Immediate release 

*UAE construction sector still ‘active’ by global standards*

*New Proleads investigation assesses impact of economic crisis 
on the civil building construction industry*

Dubai, 28 July 2009: Despite the global slowdown, the UAE continues to be one of the most active construction markets in the world with more than 750 active projects in construction and 450 recently completed, according to a new report* by Dubai-based research house Proleads Global.

Although more than 400 projects with a total value in excess of $300 billion have been placed on hold or cancelled, (the rest either in study, planning, design or bidding), the report forecasts stability returning to the sector this year with some recovery in cash flow in 2010. 

The study identifies a slowdown in new projects in the commercial and retail; education and healthcare projects being placed on hold more often than in the past; a slowdown in leisure and entertainment and an increasing rate of cancellations in the residential sector.

The Insights study provides statistics to back the anecdotal evidence of the impact of the slowdown. Insights United Arab Emirates: An Investigation into the Current and Future State of the Civil Building Construction Industry examines more than 1,900 projects with a total budget of more than $1 trillion.

The results of the most recent and detailed study of its type reflects the continuing impact of the economic crisis on the UAE construction market, including:

•	A marked downward trend beginning in mid-2008 in the rate at which new projects are announced.

•	A dramatic increase in the rate at which projects are cancelled since early 2009.

•	An increase in the rate at which projects are placed on hold as well as the size between late 2008 and early 2009.

•	Multiple projects in several sectors scheduled for completion up to 2011, with most in 2010.
Emil Rademeyer, Director of Proleads Global, said the aim of the study is to quantify the UAE civil construction market as accurately as possible, rather than simply relying on anecdotal evidence. 

“It is vital to know how fast and by how much the industry is changing, not just for the industry and its suppliers but also for planners, governments and financial institutions,” he added. “Projects are always put on hold even during boom times but it is the rate at which it occurs that enables us to forecast when we might see an upswing.

“From our cash flow projections for the industry, we see the UAE construction market beginning to stabilise at current levels and showing some signs of recovery during 2010.”

* Insights United Arab Emirates: An Investigation into the Current and Future State of the Civil Building Construction Industry, is published by Proleads Global, price US$390. For further information, please visit www.projectsandleads.com


----------



## Dubai_Steve

234sale said:


> Each months
> 
> About 4 packets of coley filets, 200,
> 6 packs of MS prawns, 300AED
> Litter 200 AED
> Obesety Biscutes 100 AED
> Other stuff 200
> So 1000 a month,,
> 
> eek...


Cut the coley filets and MS prawns down and get the cheaper standard biscuites rather than obesety ones :lol:


----------



## Imre

*Merged Emaar, Dubai Holding will dominate local property market*

Nathalie Gillet

Last Updated: July 28. 2009 3:34PM UAE / July 28. 2009 11:34AM GMT The merger announced in June between Dubai’s two largest master property developers, Emaar Properties and Dubai Holding Commercial Operations Group (DHCG), will change the shape of the industry in Dubai, says the ratings agency Moody’s Investors Service.

In its latest Dubai property report, Moody’s says the consolidation of Emaar and DHCG would create a dominant entity in thelocal market. Once the merger is concluded, most likely before the end of this year, the new company would have strengthened bargaining power with contractors and benefit from economies of scale, the report said. The merged company would also have access to a substantial land bank.

“Several drivers – such as the opening of Dubai’s Metro (public transportation system), the inauguration of Burj Dubai (the world’s tallest skyscraper) and the end of the school year, and the beginning of the summer period – will shape Dubai’s residential property market in the near term and lead to greater differentiation within Dubai’s residential areas, from which Emaar and Dubai Holding’s real estate divisions may benefit,” the report said.

On June 30, Moody’s placed both Emaar’s and Dubai Holding’s long-term issuer ratings on review for possible downgrade. 

“Our review will assess asset valuation, government ownership, dividend policies, the new capital structure and strengths of the combined cash flows, as well as the liquidity profile of the new entity,” the agency said.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090728/BUSINESS/707289982/-1/ART


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## 234sale

Quick question, any know how the ownership of Escan company changed recently.
I thought it was owned by Abu Dhabi , but now Shiekh from Al-Ain? 

http://www.zawya.com/cm/profile.cfm?companyid=1003379

If you have any info, or some construction pics of Fanar Towers? 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=480820


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## Jeroen45

234sale said:


> No need for pity, I'm not greedy. Just waiting for apartment to be finished then I have no rent too.:cheers:


Owning an apartment while not saving any money? Please elaborate on this...


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## bizzybonita

Property Appeals Court received 883 cases in first half 

The time a case takes at the Property Court of First Instance has gone down by more than 20 per cent to 45 days from 57 days in 2008, according to Abdul Qader Moosa, Chief Justice of Dubai Property Court.

However, the time a case takes in the Appeals Court has risen to 90 days in 2009 from 80 days last year because of the increase in the number of cases this year.

It is a very short time in comparison with the years cases take in any other Arab country, the Chief Justice pointed out. Moosa said the court's workload has increased.

Property Court of First Instance received 12 cases in the last six months of 2008. Judgments were given in five cases.

Hearings usually took three months. In comparison, during the first six months of this year the court received 50 cases, of which 43 were decided. Hearings are on in the remaining seven cases.

The Property Court of Appeals, meanwhile, heard 137 cases during the last six months of 2008, of which 20 were decided while the rest were deferred to the 2009 judicial session. Each case took three months. But, in the first six months of this year, the court registered 883 new cases, giving a verdict in 168 over a period of just three months. Referring to the impact of the global crisis, Moosa said the launch of the court coincided with the start of the financial crisis late last year. We were surprised with the many cases of contract termination by investors who feared that projects may not start. That period witnessed many contract termination cases for failing to pay instalments. However, the number of such cases was very small compared to the volume of the emirate's real estate projects.

He reassured buyers that each project has a separate escrow account, and a developer is not allowed to seize another project's account to collect debts due from a different project.

He advised investors to make sure before buying property that the developer, broker and the project are registered. Also, they have to deposit their money in the escrow account of the project. They also need to be aware of the laws that regulate the real estate sector. These are available at the website of the Property Court and the Rera.


----------



## 234sale

Jeroen45 said:


> Owning an apartment while not saving any money? Please elaborate on this...


I am paying rent on a property, I would rather be paying my mortgage


----------



## smussuw

234sale said:


> Quick question, any know how the ownership of Escan company changed recently.
> I thought it was owned by Abu Dhabi , but now Shiekh from Al-Ain?
> 
> http://www.zawya.com/cm/profile.cfm?companyid=1003379
> 
> If you have any info, or some construction pics of Fanar Towers?
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=480820


Where does it say Sheikh from Al Ain and how is it different than being a Sheikh from Abu Dhabi? I cannot see the key shareholdes because am not a subscriber !

The chairman is a guy from Dubai !


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## 234sale

I'm just speculating.

My job is construction, so I have been asked to do due dilijance.


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## mackie1964

Al Ain is part of Abu Dhabi and my understanding is that, all the AD royals originate from Al Ain any way :dunno:


----------



## jagmp

somebody i know just bought 2br in Icon 1 JLT. 1326sft including 2% agency fees and 1 year maintanance for 800k.:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:


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## smussuw

The chairman of Escan is the previous Director General of the Dubai Naturalization and Residency Department btw.


----------



## 234sale

Saeed Matar Bin Belailah Chairman
previous Director General of the Dubai Naturalization and Residency Department 

Hamad Salem Lekhraibani Al Neaimi Vice Chairman
Acting Assistant Under Secretary of Commercial Affairs, Department of Planning & Economy,

Saeed Mohammed Saif Al Muhairi Director
Ahmad Al Hajj Abdullah Mohammed Al Habroosh Director
Mohammed Saeed Al Dhanhani Director
Mohammed Nasser Mathker Shafi Al Hajeri Director
Khalifa Issa Mohammed Al Khaili Director

What I'm interested in is the company ownership,
I think it was re-organised as Saudi Investors sold / changed investment stake


Looks like I will just have to pay to use Zaywa


----------



## Imre

*Press release*

For immediate publication 29 July 2009

*‘Get back to basics,’ Dubai urged*

*Dubai’s future domestic economy must focus heavily on expats and foreign companies, says leading UAE property developer*

Photo caption:

Affordable – not speculative – housing, whether owner-occupied or rented, lies at the centre of the solution, says Mohammed Nimer, CEO of mid-market property development company MAG Group Properties










With the global economy going through one of the most challenging periods of economic stress in generations, Dubai’s future domestic economy must focus heavily on continuing to attract expatriates and foreign companies, says a leading property developer.

“I believe we will soon see the bottom of the current crisis but if we are to avoid a recovery like the boom and bust cycle of the recent past, Dubai must return to the basics which first put it on the map,” said Mohammed Nimer, CEO of mid-market development company MAG Group Properties.

“Dubai was hugely successful before the real estate bubble,” said the boss of a company with AED3 billion worth of construction projects in the United Arab Emirates. “As the Arabian Gulf’s most globalised economy, Dubai’s existence has been driven by its power to attract foreign direct investment and the resources necessary to make it work.

“Dubai, a once small pearling village with limited natural resources, led the region in declaring a tax-free, business-friendly environment, attracting outside investment and a large highly skilled expatriate population. 

“The basic pluses for Dubai that brought them here have not disappeared in the financial and real estate crisis. Dubai’s geographical position will never change and it remains the primary hub connecting Asia to Europe. It also connects Asia to Eastern, Western and Southern Africa, as well as becoming a gateway from Asia Pacific to South America.

“Dubai’s infrastructure cannot be bettered by anywhere else in the Middle East. Jebel Ali is still the world's largest man-made harbour, the biggest port in the Middle East and home to 5,500 companies from 120 countries. Dubai international airport is the sixth busiest in the world by international passenger traffic and one of the busiest cargo airports in the world.

“What this emphasises is that Dubai’s dependency on the outside world cannot be ignored. The future domestic economy must focus heavily on expatriates and foreign companies and its business relationships with the rest of the world. Now, however, there must be greater transparency, tougher regulations to protect investors and a basic safety net on provisions for the expatriate community upon which the economy is dependent. 

“We need to ensure that the UAE remains a safe and secure community and that its tax-free and business-friendly environment is strengthened. Population and employment are basic fundamentals which underpin the UAE economy and reforms which ensure growth are essential to maintain them.

“Solid fundamentals like these which lead to a sustainable recovery and affordable – not speculative - housing whether owner-occupied or rented, lie at the heart of the solution.”

In the shorter term, Nimer said there is still a large supply of new residential and commercial property to be absorbed by the Dubai market. Lower rents and values would ensure that the supply is taken up and “only then will the Dubai property market be stable,” he added.


----------



## gerald.d

Never trust a bald man with a beard.

(Having said that though, and all joking aside, probably the most sensible commentary on Dubai published anywhere in the last 3 years.)


----------



## bizzybonita

Residential property to stay sluggish in near-term

Dubai's residential property sector may face a near-term risk of further declines due the summer season followed by Ramadan and expatriates leaving after the school year ends, according to a Moody's report.

The Dubai property market remains subdued following the fallout from the credit crunch and the global recession. We believe that there are a number of drivers that will shape the property market over the short and medium term, Martin Kohlhase, Assistant Vice- President – Analyst in Moody's Corporate Finance Group said in the report.

The urban development plan, which includes the opening of the Metro and Burj Dubai in September 2009, will shape the Dubai residential real estate market. This plan will lead to a greater differentiation in residential areas within Dubai, as those properties with access to public transport will likely be in higher demand than others.

Besides, third-party consultants believe that oversupply in the market is unlikely to be resolved within the next 12 months given dynamic supply-demand developments, which could result in prices remaining sluggish or falling further, albeit at more moderate levels than over the past nine months.

Colliers International, according to the report, has revised downward its residential supply growth of about 140,000 new units by fourth quarter of 2010, to about 64,800 between first quarter 2009 and fourth quarter 2011. Colliers, it said, believes that the forthcoming supply, coupled with the change in the supply-demand dynamic since the peak of the market in third quarter 2008, will exacerbate the existing oversupply position in the market, while the downward trend in the market will continue during 2009 and is unlikely to stabilise before second quarter 2010 on the back of new units gradually coming to market.

According to Moody's, the opening of Dubai Metro, inauguration of Burj Dubai, end of the school year and beginning of the summer period are some of the near-term developments that could have an impact on the real estate sector.

Kohlhase believes that most projects that commenced prior to 2008 and are currently in an advanced stage – where substantial down payments have already been made – have not recorded a material number of delinquent customers.

However, leading property developers in Dubai have relaxed their payment schedules and/or have offered discounts to buyers (including passing on cost savings by re-tendering construction contracts).

As the future market for property sales is likely to dry up, we expect lower revenues and profitability from Dubai projects when older vintages [construction started prior to 2008] are delivered.

Following bumper years in land transactions, numbers and values have fallen to pre-2007 levels. Moody's expects the real estate market to remain subdued over the near term and believes that land sales will not be a sizeable source of income for the large government master developers.

Although banks are reported to have reverted to property lending, this has not become visible in bank statistics released by the UAE Central Bank.

Recent statistics of aggregate credit facilities in the UAE and personal loans outstanding indicate only a moderate increase in lending.

Consequently, the statistics do not suggest that lending on a large scale has resumed, said the report.


Emaar-DHCOG merger

The proposed consolidation of Emaar Properties and the real estate activities of Dubai Holding Commercial Operations Group (DHCOG) will create a dominant entity in the emirate's property sector that would control the market. It will also benefit from economies of scale and stronger bargaining power vis-a-vis contractors.

We recognise that consolidating Emaar and DHCOG's real estate interests into one entity will create a new giant in Dubai's market, with unrivalled access to a sizeable land bank, said Martin Kohlhase of Moody's.

Furthermore, several drivers – such as the opening of Dubai's Metro, the inauguration of Burj Dubai and the end of the school year and beginning of the summer period – will shape Dubai's residential property market in the near term and lead to greater differentiation within Dubai's residential areas, from which Emaar and DHCOG's real estate divisions may benefit.

However, following the announcement of the merger, Moody's placed both Emaar's and DHCOG's long-term issuer ratings on review.

Larger government ownership in Emaar may not be sufficient to mitigate the detrimental impact the merger would have on the company's fundamental creditworthiness.

Ongoing market weakness and the prospects of weaker cash flow over the near to medium term may impact the combined group going forward, said Kohlhase.


----------



## Mistermark

I agree with everything the guy from MAG Properties said. One other thing he missed: the importance of hassle-free residence visas for people who are able to support themselves without working.


----------



## Imre

residence visa still ON HOLD , nothing about the 6 months visa yet.


----------



## docc

^^ Probably because they are going to change it to something more acceptable!


----------



## NAB

Spoke to the DEC guys...the Piling & Shoring is complete for Lawns IV & V. The main contractor works will commence from August second week..Of course, i do not see any reason for this project to be handed over before end 2010....PLus they plan to send revised construction based payment structures to the investors in the coming 2 weeks...though was not given any indication of what it would be...

It's a catch-22 situation. No construction - you keep losing on opportunity cost of already invested money...Construction gets completed in a jiffy - with the state of JVC as it is, you cannot stay there, will get no rental (or probably at camel dung prices) and start paying your mortgage too!!!! How do we get through this mess?? Any great ideas, guys??

Baba, sorry for not updating you on the last visit - but coudn't get to go and check the Lawns III site - but in any case, DEC put up the photographs on the latest updates in that same week....


----------



## baba toto

NAB said:


> Spoke to the DEC guys...the Piling & Shoring is complete for Lawns IV & V. The main contractor works will commence from August second week..Of course, i do not see any reason for this project to be handed over before end 2010....PLus they plan to send revised construction based payment structures to the investors in the coming 2 weeks...though was not given any indication of what it would be...
> 
> It's a catch-22 situation. No construction - you keep losing on opportunity cost of already invested money...Construction gets completed in a jiffy - with the state of JVC as it is, you cannot stay there, will get no rental (or probably at camel dung prices) and start paying your mortgage too!!!! How do we get through this mess?? Any great ideas, guys??
> 
> Baba, sorry for not updating you on the last visit - but coudn't get to go and check the Lawns III site - but in any case, DEC put up the photographs on the latest updates in that same week....


What about Lawns III - Will they start construction in August? Nahkeel handed over the plot to DEC a year ago and all they have managed to achieve since then is a hole in the ground!! :nuts:

I take your point about the current state of JV. I think us investors have been duped in this regard but what do we do now? They promised us completion by 2008/9. I even had a letter from DEC promising to refund my deposit if I decided to cancel and/or completion was delayed. Now the Government of Dubai has come up with the most ridiculous laws i.e. investos who cancel loose 30% of their deposit. This is daylight robbery to an investor who has waited 3 years and had nothing in return but a loss of 30% of his payment!! :bash:


----------



## TerryPop

*grow some spectacles*

Just saw the following headline

*No Sex in the City- Dubai's latest ban*


I misread the article, and had a hellish morning.....cold sweats....fear.....a good hard look at my medicine cabinet.....


I looked Ting and Tong straight in the eye and said "this will be th last time, until we meet again in Laos _and please let ping & Pong know that I no longer need them this Saturday_".....oh the looks I got!

I went thru speed dial and let lbujiana and svetlana down easy, "you are special, its not you its the dubai Govt, if I could I would, no you are not fat, and yes I thought the faux leather was fine-the rash was from the strawberries"

I sms'd the Latina twins, Idrin Kita & shaveena haveena, letting them know *Thunder Thursdays* were not going to be happening anymore in Jumeirah- thats for sure!.... I sms'd them b/c they are fucking Latina psycho's .


I e-mailed *Paris* to say the bonk-athon-anon-party would no longer be taking place in Al Barsha, she wrote back saying she didn't like France anyway- go figure?


The Eppco Buzzy thing got thrown out, the ribbed, the fluorescent, the flavoured, the stingers- *all gone*- the *V's* the *C's* down with a single flush....

I must have blown 500 dirhams on these things alone!

The morale of this story is read everything *twice*- mis reading costs you dearly, 

On reflection tax free and sex free just wouldn;t cut it out here....I was a fool :lol:

http://www.cinemaspy.com/article.php?id=2873


----------



## Imre

*Emaar posts quarterly loss of 1.29 billion dirhams *

By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: July 30, 2009, 15:12


Dubai: Emaar has revealed a staggering second quarter loss of 161 per cent, down to Dh1.29 billion, compared to a Dh2.12 billion profit for the same time last year.

Emaar also recorded a 135 per cent drop in half-year net profits, as they fell from Dh3.01 billion for the first half of 2008 to Dh1.05 billion in the first six months of 2009.

The loss per share was 21 fils, the company said in a statement posted on the web site of Dubai's bourse.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10335980.html


----------



## Imre

*Dubai property rent decline to slow in H2 *

July 30, 2009 

Rents for residential and commercial properties in Dubai will fall for the rest of 2009, but declines will be marginal compared with the first half of the year, CB Richard Ellis said on Thursday. 
The emirate's once-booming property sector has suffered sharply as a result of the global financial crisis, as prices fall, developers slow or cancel projects and jobs are cut.

"A period of minimal negative growth over the next 3-6 months could see some stability achieved and the market bottom called before year-end," said Matt Green, associate director, Research & Consultancy at the real estate services firm.

Rents in Dubai are seen declining by 40 per cent for the full year 2009, and a further 10 per cent in 2010, before recovering in 2011, a Reuters poll showed in June. 

http://www.business24-7.ae//Articles/2009/7/Pages/DubaipropertyrentdeclinetoslowinH2.aspx


----------



## Imre

docc said:


> ^^ Probably because they are going to change it to something more acceptable!


I hope!

Or maybe they will not give a residence visa if you have property here, this is also possible.


----------



## docc

^^ If that's the case, they might as well kiss all the expatriate money good bye.


----------



## bizzybonita

Imre said:


> I hope!
> 
> Or maybe they will not give a residence visa if you have property here, this is also possible.


Man don't think like this ... They need more investors like you when the oil saying bye bye in Dubai !


----------



## DXBQuantum

I dont no about all this doom and gloom. 

My agency is extremly busy and selling alot? - i guess its down to a pro-active approach unlike others who wait for business? 

People who said I will wait until Ramadan to buy have no excuse now!!


----------



## High Times

bjassin said:


> Actually, I STRONGLY disagree. 12 cheques in a 'civilized' country is workable if you can EASILY evict the tenant for nonpayment. However, in Dubai, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to evict someone. Also, in a 'civilized' country if the tenant signs a one or two year lease and then skips out after a few months, you can actually enforce the lease against them. Good luck trying to do something similar in Dubai.


At present the issues you raise are all part of the same problem, an immature market. No one in Dubai seems to have the brain power that is required to put an end to such simple problems, hence they are allowed to continue.

My point was actually trying to state that I think Dubai is beginning to move in the right direction in terms of a mature market out of necessity rather than choice. Due to the collapse of Dubai real estate, the sector needs to change quickly in order to survive, I think there are some signs of this happening.

A simple solution to your absconding tenant issue is to create a website called badtennantsdubai.com and then make a list of any tenant who breaks a rental agreement or bounces a cheque and jumps ship mid term. This information can be input by landlords and agents, publicly viewed, and used as part of the vetting procedure when finding a new tenant. As long as the accusation can be substantiated and legally proved then there is no harm in publishing it. Adding the bad tenants passport data, picture and value of default on the site would be the way to do it. The bad tenant could pay a fee to be removed from the site which would equate to what he owned the scorned landlord plus an admin/ collection fee to the site, a “bad tenant bounty”.

Its simple things like this that will help the market become more resilient to abuse. If I can think of a simple solution to the problem sat down over a cup of coffee in the morning, it makes me wonder what the **** the Dubai government is doing with their time, apart form horse racing, camel racing, fast car racing, fast women chasing, date eating, coffee drinking, shisha smoking, and generally authenticating the stereotype of lazy Arabs.


----------



## Imre

*Property and rental price falls to continue, but less severe *

Property consulting firm CB Richard Ellis has said that weak sales, a drop in demand and new supply coming on line is likely to push property prices and rentals in Dubai down further in the second half of the year. But the price falls are not expected to be as severe as during the first half of 2009. CBRE said the pressure on lease and occupancy rates will be most prominent in the new residential developments, such as Dubai Silicon Oasis, International Media Production Zone and Motor City. In the commercial office market sector, supply will increase substantially in the next six months, and the majority will be from the newer business areas of Jumeriah Lake Towers, Al Barsha, Tecom, Business Bay and Dubai Silicon Oasis. 

CBRE also said that there is less pressure on prices and rents in Abu Dhabi despite new supply coming in, but demand will remain weak until economic activity picks up. 

In the residential sector, the shortage of residential products is helping to maintain unrealistic rental rates in the capital, despite falling levels across all other asset classes. 

http://www.ameinfo.com/205373.html
(Mac Capital Advisors)


----------



## 234sale

I noticed Emaar has put up at least 20 Leaseable Meadows villas on Dubizzle today. Still unrealistic prices. I'm not sure how long they can hold out. 
Are they trying to keep up the market price or not really interested in renting them.


----------



## worried1

*Great Idea*



High Times said:


> At present the issues you raise are all part of the same problem, an immature market. No one in Dubai seems to have the brain power that is required to put an end to such simple problems, hence they are allowed to continue.
> 
> My point was actually trying to state that I think Dubai is beginning to move in the right direction in terms of a mature market out of necessity rather than choice. Due to the collapse of Dubai real estate, the sector needs to change quickly in order to survive, I think there are some signs of this happening.
> 
> A simple solution to your absconding tenant issue is to create a website called badtennantsdubai.com and then make a list of any tenant who breaks a rental agreement or bounces a cheque and jumps ship mid term. This information can be input by landlords and agents, publicly viewed, and used as part of the vetting procedure when finding a new tenant. As long as the accusation can be substantiated and legally proved then there is no harm in publishing it. Adding the bad tenants passport data, picture and value of default on the site would be the way to do it. The bad tenant could pay a fee to be removed from the site which would equate to what he owned the scorned landlord plus an admin/ collection fee to the site, a “bad tenant bounty”.
> 
> Its simple things like this that will help the market become more resilient to abuse. If I can think of a simple solution to the problem sat down over a cup of coffee in the morning, it makes me wonder what the **** the Dubai government is doing with their time, apart form horse racing, camel racing, fast car racing, fast women chasing, date eating, coffee drinking, shisha smoking, and generally authenticating the stereotype of lazy Arabs.


Great idea. This should be done in all cities world wide.


----------



## gerald.d

High Times said:


> A simple solution to your absconding tenant issue is to create a website called badtennantsdubai.com and then make a list of any tenant who breaks a rental agreement or bounces a cheque and jumps ship mid term. This information can be input by landlords and agents, publicly viewed, and used as part of the vetting procedure when finding a new tenant. As long as the accusation can be substantiated and legally proved then there is no harm in publishing it. Adding the bad tenants passport data, picture and value of default on the site would be the way to do it. The bad tenant could pay a fee to be removed from the site which would equate to what he owned the scorned landlord plus an admin/ collection fee to the site, a “bad tenant bounty”.


I'm getting a severe case of deja vu here. Could have sworn there was something very similar to that announced in the last couple of days in either the print media, or mentioned on a radio news bulletin.


----------



## 234sale

gerald.d said:


> I'm getting a severe case of deja vu here. Could have sworn there was something very similar to that announced in the last couple of days in either the print media, or mentioned on a radio news bulletin.


This was doing the rounds end of last week.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/ins...t/business_August18.xml&section=business&col=

DUBAI - Real estate firms Landmark Properties and New England International Real Estate are integrating Emcredit’s cheque-reporting solution, emBounce, into their business processes further enhancing their risk management practices. 

Real Estate Firms Integrate Emcredit Services into Risk Management


----------



## gerald.d

^^ That's the one. Ta.

Now you're probably going to make me look really stupid and point out that it was discussed in this very thread probably just a couple of pages ago


----------



## Imre

"In addition to the most popular locations, a majority of seekers are looking for 50k to 60k to 80k rent scales and 1.5M is a pinnacle price for a lot of buyers," he said. "Prices once again have taken a dip but not any lower than what may have been reasonably expected."

Most popular locations in July in the graph above. 


http://blogs.thenational.ae/crane_country/2009/08/brokers-hold-their-breaths.html


----------



## docc

I'm thinking of grabbing a 2 bed in Springs (Springs 1 or 2 only). Price is around 1.45 M and rent is around 100-120k depending on location and number of cheques. What do you guys think about this? I don't think there's too much room for capital appreciation on these, but maintenance is low and rental yield is decent.

Any comments?


----------



## jagmp

^^

you can grab 1br in DM and 2br in JLT for half the price in decent building..less investment less risk.percentage wise similar rental yield.


----------



## jagmp

bjassin said:


> Actually, I STRONGLY disagree. 12 cheques in a 'civilized' country is workable if you can EASILY evict the tenant for nonpayment. However, in Dubai, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to evict someone. Also, in a 'civilized' country if the tenant signs a one or two year lease and then skips out after a few months, you can actually enforce the lease against them. Good luck trying to do something similar in Dubai.
> 
> Most likely what will happen is that 'naive' owners will agree to 12 cheques paid monthly and then the tenant will either always be 'chronically late' in paying or they will just pay for a few months and then move to another building and stop paying.
> 
> And if you think the 'bounce a cheque and go to jail' policy will help you, good luck. That only works when you bounce a check to a bank or to a government-owned company. If a tenant cheque bounces, it will be almost impossible for you as the owner to have the tenant sent to 'jail'--at least not for a few years. During that time they get to live rent-free in you apartment since you can't evict them either.
> 
> Nakheel have not paid their suppliers millions of dollars and no one from that company has been sent to jail--and no one will.
> 
> The whole system is a sick joke.
> 
> BJ


actually in uk it is very difficult to evict the tenant.it takes over six months to evict them.till then they live rent free.lanlord not only lose rent but incur court expenses in region of 2k to 3k.even after introducing deposite protection scheme my tenants have invariably used it up by not paying last month rent leaving me high and dry against any damage to the property and hassle of recovering the deposit to cover the rent.

in uk even the sqatters to the empty propertie have rights. lanlord can't evict them by changing the lock.he will commit an offence.he has to go thruogh the court. by then squatters will ramshackle the property.


----------



## DXBQuantum

Imre said:


> "In addition to the most popular locations, a majority of seekers are looking for 50k to 60k to 80k rent scales and 1.5M is a pinnacle price for a lot of buyers," he said. "Prices once again have taken a dip but not any lower than what may have been reasonably expected."
> 
> Most popular locations in July in the graph above.
> 
> 
> http://blogs.thenational.ae/crane_country/2009/08/brokers-hold-their-breaths.html


What about Downtown Burj Dubai that graph is wrong if people looking to rent is not in Downtown - its the most popular area..


----------



## docc

^^ I have to agree. My apartment rented out in 2 days after i placed an ad. Burj Views is bustling with viewings and new tenants are moving in every day.


----------



## Imre

this is the calculation, dont know how realistic ( maybe nothing  ):

propertyfinder.ae reveals the U.A.E. Property Hotspots for July 2009 

Mid Summer Results. propertyfinder.ae, the UAE’s leading real-estate website, today released data revealing the UAE’s top locations sought after to buy and rent for July 2009. The survey is based on approximately 1 Million property page views on over 20,000 properties seen by over 130,000 visitors to the website over the month of July 2009 and highlights changing activity in the UAE real estate market. 

http://www.propertyfinder.ae/indust...r.ae+reveals+dubaia+s+2009+property+hotspots/


----------



## High Times

gerald.d said:


> I'm getting a severe case of deja vu here. Could have sworn there was something very similar to that announced in the last couple of days in either the print media, or mentioned on a radio news bulletin.


I hadn't read that articale when i posted MY idea. There is nothing new in credit checks, they are used the world over and have been for many years. It doesnt stop the majority of issues with bad tennants.

My idea was a way of exposing tennants who decide to up and leave half way through an agreement just because they wanted to, or found a better deal, and decided to say **** you their landlord. 

No credit checking system would expose this as they are breaking a contract not a credit agreement.

It should also be publicly viewable, not kept secret to letting proffesionals as a way of hiding the infomation from people wanting to rent their appartments out by themselves.

Good to see the usual claws out though.


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Calm down dear. I wasn't insinuating anything, simply that the idea sounded familiar.


----------



## 234sale

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article12442.html
Market Oracle: U.S. Dollar Collapse Starting Next Monday ?


----------



## High Times

^^^^hno:

Copy and pasting is so cheap, you know that.

The best dollar predictions were made back in february. 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=32822020&postcount=1534


----------



## 234sale

High Times said:


> ^^^^hno:
> 
> Copy and pasting is so cheap, you know that.
> 
> The best dollar predictions were made back in february.
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=32822020&postcount=1534


Yep it takes all of one second to copy and paste, reading the info takes me longer.

1 British pound = 6.18459764 United Arab Emirates dirhams
From google


----------



## 234sale

malec said:


> Why have to leave every 6 months? Couldn't that be solved by, I don't know, some very simple online thing where you just update there and it's renewed?


No doubt great business for Emirates...


----------



## Ali_Syed

Just spoke to Aamir Khan at Dubai Sports City.

The handover of Mediteranian and European buildings are on April 2010 (next year). The rest will be after that some time.

They are also revising the payment plans to adjust with the construction.


----------



## Imre

TerryPop said:


> Can anyone enlighten me on what is worst case scenario for commercial rates in Dubai pls?
> 
> JLT ready offices are now being advertised at 60 dhms a ft2 on Dubizzle see here


I saw adverts for 50-55 dhs in the Gulfnews , Almas Tower 100-120 dhs, Media City around 100 dhs, SZR 150 dhs so the commercial rent still going down.

Occupation in the JLT is around 10-20 % , more towers opening soon, so I dont know the future maybe 30-40 dhs or more empty towers ?


----------



## Imre

Morten_Denmark said:


> Doesnt add up with the massive outflow reported ?
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...8032009_c722384159174481afb7517de9d6433f.aspx


interesting:

"The bulk of the increase of nearly 300,000 people will be in the dominant expatriate community while Dubai is projected to maintain its status as the most populated emirate in the UAE for the second year running."

at the end of the day wont have enough apartment here


----------



## IISinbadII

agod said:


> So I am lead to believe, you can still do the Oman run every 6 months, it was originally out of the country for a month, which is silly, also like you say, why not use DNATA on the SZR to renew, where they do the visas anyway, and they want egovernment, stick it online, total **** up as usual.


Every 6 months they want to remind you that you are a foreigner...and Dubai is just a temporary station for you.


----------



## Naz UK

Where is the evidence to show the UAE's poplulation is 5 million? Oh, that's right, the UAE government are lying, stinking, filthy er, liars, who'll do anything to keep an upbeat image of its nation in the press, including, erm, blatantly lying and plucking figures from thin air. Awww, still, its kinda cute.


----------



## amplesou

*future !*



Ali_Syed said:


> Just spoke to Aamir Khan at Dubai Sports City.
> 
> The handover of Mediteranian and European buildings are on April 2010 (next year). The rest will be after that some time.
> 
> They are also revising the payment plans to adjust with the construction.


Aamir told me june 2010 for the venitian building so happy days !
Wife wants to spend the summer holidays there !

It,s just gonna be great !
When we decorate !
go out for a bite to eat!
get our heads down !
and go to sleep !
:banana:


----------



## smussuw

It must be a conspiracy :crazy:


----------



## MikeMuz

FARIBA said:


> Thanks mike,
> So this not mandetory is that right?


hno: Not mandetory.


----------



## agod

I have it from a very good source (my leprechaun) that there are at this moment 300, 000 orientals on that............. slow boat from China.

A.


----------



## FARIBA

Thanks mike


----------



## TerryPop

Imre said:


> I saw adverts for 50-55 dhs in the Gulfnews , Almas Tower 100-120 dhs, Media City around 100 dhs, SZR 150 dhs so the commercial rent still going down.
> 
> Occupation in the JLT is around 10-20 % , more towers opening soon, so I dont know the future maybe 30-40 dhs or more empty towers ?


rent might just cover service charge... 

:goodnight anybody want to buy some offices cheap cheap cheap price!


----------



## TerryPop

Good to see the mortgage rate issue back in the press 


*"He accused banks, many of which charge up to 8 percent interest on monthly home loan repayments, of lending far above the base rate of 2.5 per cent."* arabian business

0.9 per cent above base is possible in Europe.

Cost of borrowing 3 times more expensive here. Maybe this is one of the things that could revive the market when it is addressed?


----------



## iamici

If occupation in finished towers is really only 10-20% (btw where did you get that figure from?), then the downward pressure on rents, with more towers to come, will be immense. 

People can always justify keeping residential empty for personal use, or do short lets. I think with commercial retail and office markets, the realities make themselves felt much quicker. If 10-20% is true, something is very wrong with the office market. 

So question is where did 10-20% come from ? 

What the hell will Business bay and Old Dubai do, if demand is weak as you say ?

Hopefully, it is only a symptom of newness and occupiers will decant into JLT etc as the months pass and demand will grow. Otherwise bye bye yield.


----------



## Imre

people told me the 10-20% who have an office there or they are living next to those towers that the occupation is very bad.

Should be true otherwise the rent would be higher than 50-55-60 dhs , anyway the selling price is around 800 dhs now.


----------



## Spurs

*RERA*

I logged a complaint regardng the developer on RERA's website and have heard nothing back since, did anyone else who did this get a reply??

I did it through the website and logged a complaint:

RERA's website: http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/home.jsp?lang=0# 

Complaint category should be: Developer failed to start construction within 6 months of receiving RERAs NOC

Come on RERA sort these crafty buggers out


----------



## Imre

Deal Of The Week! *The Golden Mile, Palm Jumeirah*, We are delighted to be able to offer this fantastic opportunity to buy 'ready to move in' 1,2,3,5 BR properties on the *Palm Jumeirah Starting at less Than DHS 600 Per sq.ft.*

http://www.gnads4u.com/doc.html?_a=view&id=6021616


----------



## Spurs

*Marwan @ RERA*

I also sent a letter about this to Marwan Bin Ghelaita the CEO @ RERA: [email protected] 

I dd this in May 09 and he did initially reply saying he would look into it and get back to me......I didn't hear from him again.

Marwan Bin Ghelaita appointed CEO of Real Estate Regulatory Agency
His Highness Sheikh Hamdan Bin Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Chairman of The Executive Council, today appointed Marwan Bin Ghelaita as Chief Executive Officer of the Real Estate Regulatory Agency.

Marwan i'm still waiting for your reply!! I have faith that His Highness Sheikh Hamdan Bin Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum appointed the right man!! Please get back to me


----------



## mrobbie

TerryPop said:


> *up to 8 percent interest on monthly home loan repayments...*


We're on the Barclays "premier" rate which is their lowest rate having more than 30% deposit when purchased... currently being charged 8.5% with "no reduction on the horizon"

I know of people who have mortgages with Amlak who are paying 9%


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Regarding the 6 month visa law its says

"In addition, investors must be 100-percent owners of the property title deeds and present them to the department. "


Does that mean if the property has a part mortgage or a LPP then you will not be granted the 6 month stay to take care of your property?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai property tripped up by Obama's peacemaking

Wayne Arnold

* Last Updated: August 10. 2009 6:41PM UAE / August 10. 2009 2:41PM GMT

Could the slump in Dubai property prices be Barack Obama’s fault?

The US president has never been to Dubai and there is no evidence that he has ever owned property there. But since moving into the White House in January, Mr Obama may have inadvertently contributed to weakening demand for property in the nation’s financial capital, according to an academic who has studied trends driving the market.

Dubai’s property market has long relied on demand from the Middle East, India, Pakistan and Iran, where investors faced with chronic political and economic instability look to Dubai as a safe haven.

By lowering anxieties in the region with his more accommodating foreign policy, Mr Obama may have reduced the political impetus for buying in Dubai.

“Dubai has depended on insecurity in the rest of the region,” says Sayed Bozorgnia, a visiting assistant professor of economics at Abu Dhabi University’s College of Business Administration.

Under Mr Obama’s predecessor, George Bush, the US was a regional wild card. Now, Mr Bozorgnia says, “there’s a little more stability”.

He says the Obama factor is only one of several reasons why Dubai property prices are likely to keep falling this year.

He and his students, many of whom he says are property investors, have identified a vicious circle of diminished expectations and falling prices that raises questions about the wisdom of having relied so heavily on property to diversify the country’s economy away from oil.

Along with diminishing fears of wider regional conflict, something many thought was a distinct possibility when Mr Bush was in office, demand for property in Dubai is falling victim to declining wages and rising job losses. Even if property owners are not losing their jobs, tenants have been made redundant, affecting demand for rentals and pushing rents lower. That reduces the yield on property relative to other investments and makes renting more attractive to residents than buying.

“As long as rents are falling, people are not inclined to purchase,” says Mr Bozorgnia. “In addition to that, the population has been falling. A lot of people have left or are thinking about leaving.”

And as long as potential buyers fear conditions point to a decline in prices they tend to delay purchasing, further sapping demand. The same kind of psychological effect applies to supply. Developers fearing prices will fall further are rushing to sell at discounts, Mr Bozorgnia says, placing further downward pressure on prices as they hunt for buyers.

“Since firms think prices are going to be lower, they want to unload as much property on to the market as possible,” he says. “So your supply side has increased; your demand has decreased.”

Demand is unlikely to improve, according to Mr Bozorgnia, until banks ease mortgage conditions, a conundrum the UAE Central Bank is still struggling to solve.

Banks’ willingness to lend for property purchases, after all, is unlikely to improve while the outlook for prices is so dim. Banks are already experiencing rising mortgage defaults.

Persistent weakness in the property market is not good news for the nation’s economy. Property and construction are the UAE’s largest employers and, after oil, its largest source of income.

In the future, Mr Bozorgnia says, the country would do better to promote other industries, not by buying up global champions but by luring innovators and entrepreneurs.

“Most good ideas come not from huge organisations but from small companies,” he says.

The UAE may not hold much allure for start-ups, however. It ranks 46th on the World Bank’s ease of doing business list, behind Bulgaria, Armenia and Tonga. Much of the foreign investment that poured into the country over recent years has been to take advantage of the property boom. But with the global economy still struggling to emerge from the downturn, buying from the country’s top sources of capital, India, Pakistan and Britain, has been in steady decline.

So are purchases from Iran, which despite recent election unrest no longer faces the prospect of a US invasion. Purchases from Russia, relations with which Mr Obama has pledged to reset, have also dwindled.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Moody's Investors Service today placed the ratings of four banks in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) on review for possible downgrade reflecting the rising challenges facing the sector, chiefly triggered by the stressed domestic property market (especially in Dubai), as well as the economic slowdown forecast for 2009 with a modest recovery in 2010.

The four banks affected are Emirates Bank International and National Bank of Dubai (currently merging into Emirated NBD), MashreqBank and Dubai Islamic Bank. In all cases, their bank financial strength ratings (BFSRs) and long-term debt and deposit ratings were placed on review for possible downgrade and short-term ratings affirmed. See details of ratings affected below.

Moody's anticipates that the pressures facing the UAE banking system will result in rising corporate defaults as well as an increase in delinquencies from retail lending -- especially among unsecured credits.

However, the rating agency acknowledges that the rated banks have responded to the expected deterioration in asset quality by increasing their provisioning levels and improving their Tier 1 capital ratios during the first two quarters of 2009.

The UAE banking system is largely government-owned or controlled and much of the capital improvement has been through the provision of external support (i.e. government injections of Tier 1 capital notes) aimed at ensuring the banks are better prepared for both expected and unexpected levels of loan losses.

"Moody's stress tests of the rated UAE banks' portfolios -- under both a base-case and a more adverse (or stressed) scenario -- have indicated that the Abu Dhabi-based banks are more resilient. This primarily reflects two factors: (i) their high Tier 1 capital ratios and (ii) lower concentrations of loans and deposits to the more volatile economic conditions prevailing in the Emirate of Dubai," explains John Tofarides,lead analyst at Moody's for the UAE banks.

More details of the stress-testing exercise -- including Moody's assumptions for estimated losses for each asset class -- will be presented in a Special Comment to be published shortly.

For all the banks, the review is expected to be completed in the next few months. Based on its stress-test results, Moody's does not, at this stage, anticipate that a multi-notch downgrade will be warranted for any of the rated entities.

Moody's notes that today's rating actions reflect a forward-looking approach based on anticipated loss estimates and that it will continue to monitor the ratings, in particular for any significant changes from the currently anticipated scenarios over the next 12 to 18 months.

The following ratings were placed on review for possible downgrade:

Emirates Bank International PJSC (EBI):
- C- BFSR (which maps to a Baseline Credit Assessment (BCA) of Baa2)
- A1 long-term local and foreign currency deposit ratings
- A1 senior debt ratings
- A2 subordinated debt rating
- Emirates Islamic Bank Sukuk Certificates of A1, guaranteed by EBI

National Bank of Dubai (NBD):
- C- BFSR (mapping to a BCA of Baa2)
- A1 long-term local and foreign currency deposit ratings
- A1 senior debt ratings
- A2 subordinated debt ratings

MashreqBank psc:
- C- BFSR (mapping to a BCA of Baa1)
- A2 long-term local and foreign currency deposit ratings
- A2 senior unsecured debt rating
- A3 subordinated debt rating

Dubai Islamic Bank:
- D+ BFSR (mapping to a BCA of Baa3)
- A1 long-term local and foreign currency issuer ratings
- A1 senior foreign currency debt rating

PREVIOUS RATING ACTIONS & PRINCIPAL METHODOLOGIES

Moody's last rating action on Emirates Bank International was on 24 December 2004, when it upgraded the foreign currency deposit ratings to A1/Prime-1 from A2/Prime-2 and its Euro Medium-Term Programme ratings for senior debt and subordinated debt upgraded to A1/A2 from A2/A3, respectively.

Moody's last rating action on National Bank of Dubai (NBD) was on 24 April 2007, when its BFSR was changed to C- from D+ following the implementation of the new BFSR methodology.

Moody's last rating action on Mashreqbank was on 24 December 2004, when it upgraded the foreign currency deposit ratings to A2/Prime-1 from A3/Prime-2 and its Euro Medium-Term Programme ratings for senior debt and subordinated debt to A2/A3 from A3/Baa1, respectively.

Moody's last rating action on Dubai Islamic Bank was on 15 December 2008, when it changed the outlook on its foreign and local currency issuer ratings to negative.

Emirates NBD PJSC (holding company of EBI and NBD) is headquartered in Dubai and reported AED281.9 billion (US$76.6 billion) total assets as of 30 June 2009.

Masreqbank is headquartered in Dubai and reported AED96.7 billion (US$26.3 billion) total assets as of 30 June 2009.

Dubai Islamic Bank is headquartered in Dubai and reported AED87.8 billion (US$23.9) total assets as of 30 June 2009.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Atlantis, The Palm in Dubai recorded almost 100% occupancy during the first seven days of August, its general manager Amadeo Zarzosa has revealed.

Speaking exclusively to Hotelier Middle East, Zarzosa said: “For the first six/seven days of this month we’ve nearly been at 100%. I don’t think we can in any way complain about our business, I think our business is outstanding; it’s excellent.

“As far as our fair share of market, we’ve done extremely well and we’re very pleased with that; for the last three months we’ve been running in the late 90s and for a 1539 room hotel that’s a very positive situation to be in,” said Zarzosa.

He attributed the success in part to a continued focus on marketing throughout the economic downturn that has maintained the excitement created at Atlantis’ grand opening event last year.

“There’s no doubt that we’ve maintained a very strong focus in our marketing efforts and we’ve not eased off, even with the change of times, we realise that the pay off is going to be long-term not short-term,” said Zarzosa.

“A lot of people have a tendency just to stop [marketing], but you really have to continue that because you have to stay in the consumer’s mind the whole time,” he added.


----------



## googly

I tried to get a room in the Atlantis when I was in Dubai a few weeks back. Everything was booked till Ramadan. :bash:

The other side of the story is that they were offering rooms for 800 dirhams per night which gave you (wife and 2 kids) free access to the water park and other attractions there. In other words, they were basically giving the room for free! Hence the 100% occupancy.


----------



## Imre

*Paid-up investors take on Dubai Properties over Business Bay*

Sarmad Khan

Last Updated: August 11. 2009 6:42PM UAE / August 11. 2009 2:42PM GMT Dubai Properties has become embroiled in a row with investors surrounding a Dh3 billion (US$817 million) development, after demanding final payment before the project was ready to hand over.

The dispute involves the Executive Towers development at Business Bay, a collection of 11 high-rise buildings containing more than 2,200 luxury apartments.

The investors said they received demands for final payments from Dubai Properties, which is owned by the Dubai Government, and assurances that the project had been completed. But after making their final payments, the owners were told the handover would be delayed.

Sanjay Sachdev, an investor based in Dubai, said he was out of pocket and wanted the developer to refund his final instalment.

“After we made our final payment, we called their customer service department for a date and time as specified by Dubai Properties,” said Mr Sachdev. “But we were told that the completion and handover was again delayed till October or December 2009. So we asked why the letter was sent? They replied that the development had hit some snags since the letters were issued.”

Mr Sachdev said he had filed a complaint with the Real Estate Regulatory Agency, the government-run property regulator.

Making final payments also triggered mortgage payments for investors using bank finance before they were able to occupy or rent the apartments, Mr Sachdev said.

Disputes over property have spread throughout the Emirates as waning demand for villas and apartments hits profits for developers, and investors are forced to absorb losses on financial commitments made before the downturn. Property prices in Dubai have fallen about 50 per cent from their peak in the third quarter of last year, according to data from Colliers International.

Dubai Properties said in its final letter to investors that the completion date was fixed for July 20 and asked them to clear the final instalment.

“The letter serves as our final notice for final instalment payment, which is due on but not later than the completion date,” Samer Zabian, the director of customer relations at Business Bay, said in a letter obtained by The National that was sent to investors in June.

Dubai Properties said the size of the project demanded a phased handover of apartments.

“Due to the scope of the project, which includes more than 2,200 residential units, there will be a phased approach to the handover to be executed over the coming months,” the company said. 

“Executive Towers is complete and we have already begun the process of handover. We have mobilised our team and are working closely with local authorities and utilities providers to finalise all elements of the development.” The company declined to specify how many apartments had been transferred to their owners.

The Executive Towers project is being built at the heart of the $30bn Business Bay development, one of the largest property projects in the emirate. 

Scheduled for completion in March last year, the project has suffered a series of setbacks. Business Bay was originally planned to include 200 towers and accommodate more than 190,000 people, but it has been beset by delays relating to infrastructure and power supply.

Dubai Holding Commercial Operations Group, the parent company of Dubai Properties, said last month it was in advanced talks to merge its property units – Dubai Properties, Sama Dubai and Tatweer – with Emaar Properties, the country’s largest developer by market capitalisation.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090811/BUSINESS/708119952/1005


----------



## kano

^^^ Dubai properties is just as bad as the other big developers...should have learned from the JBR thread as to how they operate.


----------



## Imre

*Breaking News *


*Relocations stimulate rental market activity in Dubai*

10 Aug 2009

Demand for residential rental property in Dubai is being driven by people relocating from other emirates, a new report has concluded.

Figures compiled by Landmark Advisory showed that the number of rentals climbed substantially during the second quarter of 2009, despite tough market conditions.

The volume of villa rentals was 25 per cent higher than in the first three months of the year, while apartment rentals increased by 20 per cent.

Jesse Downs, director of research and advisory services for Landmark Advisory said: "Relocations from Abu Dhabi, Sharjah, and within Dubai are the primary factors driving leasing demand."

Rising demand did not, however, help to support prices and the average rent for villas dropped by 19 per cent during the second quarter, while the average rent charged for apartments declined by 23 per cent. 

International property consultancy CB Richard Ellis recently predicted that rents in Dubai would continue to fall for the rest of 2009, but at a much slower rate than in the first six months of the year.

http://www.cityscapeintelligence.co...ons-stimulate-rental-market-activity-in-dubai


----------



## Imre

http://www.cityscapeintelligence.com/trump-to-share-market-opportunities-and-threats-at-cityscape


----------



## Dubai_Steve

A growing number of distressed funds looking at Dubai real estate may signal the bottom of the market and could help revive the emirate's shattered property sector after prices plummeted 50% in less than a year.

As over-stretched borrowers who hoped to profit from the emirate's six-year property boom face up to the reality of tumbling prices, high interest rates and job cuts, some are dumping unwanted real estate. Property funds are on the prowl to snap up the bargains.

"This is definitely a positive for Dubai," said Gaurav Shivpuri, head of corporate finance advisory at real estate consultancy Jones Lang LaSalle. "We're starting to see investors calling the bottom and prices starting to stabilize."

The term "distressed" usually refers to a property that has a value much lower than the accepted market rate.

Dubai, the once booming Persian Gulf emirate, needs a turnaround quickly in its real estate industry to help spark life back to its battered economy. The property industry accounts for about 30% of the sheikhdom's economy, which may contract this year, according to Standard & Poor's Ratings Services.

During the boom, investors speculated, planning to quickly flip homes before construction finished. But since last September, prices in Dubai have tumbled close to 50%, leaving many unable or unwilling to make final payments, which often are due upon completion and amount to as much as 50% of the total price of the home.

"We will likely see more and more investors looking to capitalize on compressed asset prices and near-default exposures on both the property and financing front," said Saud Masud, a real estate analyst at Swiss bank UBS AG.

OPPORTUNITIES 


Last week, Cayman Island-based Mayfair Wealth Management launched a $50 million shariah-compliant fund to "breathe new life to undervalued but potential-laden projects" in the United Arab Emirates. It plans to deliver an annual return of 12-15% by way of leasing and rental income.

"Although the investment climate in the U.A.E. has seen considerable changes in recent months as a result of the global economic crisis, we have identified a significant opportunity that stems from the slowdown," said company chief executive Amani Choudhry.

Dubai's second-largest property developer Deyaar Development (DEYAAR.AI) plans to close a 500 million U.A.E. dirham ($137 million) distressed property fund by the end of the year to help boost returns for shareholders.

Deyaar Chief Executive Marcus Giebel says the fund will buy up distressed properties from investors who have defaulted on their purchase agreements with the developer. But instead of selling the property off in today's distressed market, Deyaar plans to hold onto the units and offer them for rent, providing cash flow for the company. When property prices recover in Dubai, the fund will then sell the units off again.

In March, Dubai's Cirrus Developments launched a fund to acquire distressed real estate and hospitality assets or companies in the Gulf region.

Heather Wipperman, chief executive of Dubai-based property consultancy firm Investment Boutique, says Dubai's larger, wholly-owned assets offer significant opportunities for distressed funds due to a lack of buyers and sources of funding, but warns it will be difficult to achieve an annual return of 25%, which is representative of a "true" distressed fund.

"Buying an asset just because it's below the original price doesn't necessarily represent a great buying opportunity because some properties were significantly overvalued at launch," she said.


----------



## 234sale

Majority saw a correction coming, nobody knew when it would come. 
To call bottom is easy as calling the peak.
Nobody really knows what will happen, 
Still massive debts, unemploment increasing.
Goverment stimulus pumped into stock markets.

Phase 2 is coming, by 2012 it will all be clear.


----------



## 234sale

2012 = end of the great cycle.

21/12/2012 to be more precised.


----------



## bizzybonita

*Off plan property sales in Dubai plummet*

Last Updated: 06 August 2009 17:25


People are no longer buying off plan property in Dubai and banks are refusing to provide financing for projects that are more than six months away from being finished.

Via meed


----------



## bizzybonita

Off plan property sales 'dead' - real estate MD

Off-plan property sales are ‘dead’ and prices continue to slide, Mohanad Alwadiya, managing director of property adviser Harbor Real Estate has said.

While he said there were signs of stablisation of completed properties in areas such as downtown Dubai and the Palm Jumeirah, Alwadiya said investors lacked confidence in the off-plan market, where prices have slid up to 50 percent since the emirate’s property collapse last September.

“In some areas, mainly in off-plan, prices continue to drop. This is natural,” he told Dubai Eye radio in an interview.

“Confidence levels in off-plan projects is very low. Off-plan sales are almost dead,” he added.

On a brighter note, Alwadiya said his company had seen 45 percent more buyer queries in the second quarter, than in the first quarter.

Property consultant Colliers International said house prices in Dubai fell 41 percent and 9 percent in the first and second quarters in 2009.

Dubai-based Harbor Real Estate offers property advisory services to individual and institutional investors. 


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/564425-off-plan-property-sales-dead---real-estate-md


----------



## Dubaidog

234sale said:


> 2012 = end of the great cycle.
> 
> 21/12/2012 to be more precised.


Well if that proves to be true, anyone who is still left will have something to celebrate at Christmas!


----------



## bizzybonita

234sale said:


> 2012 = end of the great cycle.
> 
> 21/12/2012 to be more precised.


The second day will be my birthday :lol: 22/12/2012


----------



## Dubai_Steve

At the end of 2012 we will probably all understand the universal truth and why we are conscious. How that affects property value is another matter  In 2045 when we reach the point of singularity, property will most likey have no monetary value at all. We will have merged completely with computers of that time and have no desire for 'real life' experiences or physical location.

So sell your property assets before the height of the next global property cycle because it will probably be the last one.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai rents begin upward march*

Withholding of inventory by landlords has led to a marginal increase in rents across Dubai, but average apartment rents have fallen by 29 per cent since their peak in the fourth quarter of 2008, according to a new report.

"We are already seeing a marginal increase in rents in the third quarter. This is a recent trend that did not have an impact on the second quarter data, rather it was spotted in July and August. Depending on owner behaviour we may see this ease towards the end of the third quarter," Jesse Downs, Director of Research & Advisory Services, Landmark Advisory, told Emirates Business.

"Some areas are experiencing marginal price increases that are based on fundamentals. High-end apartments in Dubai Marina are a perfect example," she said.

In a report titled Delaying the inevitable: Owner Behaviour Preventing Rent Floor, Downs said assuming that landlords are exiting the market due to lower rents, this behaviour will prevent the leasing market from reaching a rent floor. In an oversupplied market such as Dubai, rent floors are consumer driven. The momentary respite in the rent correction process, caused by a supply distortion, is only temporary and will reverse as soon as those properties come back onto the market.

"Real rents will be determined by what Dubai residents are willing to pay," said the report.

According to the Dubai Property Price Index, average sale prices for villas declined 24 per cent, while apartment prices fell 17 per cent during the second quarter of 2009. However, demand was considerably stronger for villas, which accounted for 73 per cent of all residential sales in the second quarter. Sale volumes in Jumeirah Village were particularly strong, with an average transactional price of Dh577 per square foot, which is an "excellent" value.

While bid-ask spreads ranged between zero and 18 per cent, nearly three quarters of all sales verified by Landmark had a zero per cent bid-ask spread in the second quarter, with an aggregate average spread of two per cent. These spreads, however, cannot necessarily be extrapolated to the wider market listings, because of different pricing strategies.

Rental yields range from 6.6 to 10 per cent, with an average of 7.5 per cent. Year-on-year, villa and apartment prices are down 37 per cent and 25 per cent, respectively. Since peaking in the fourth quarter of 2008, villa and apartment prices have declined by 44 per cent and 36 per cent, respectively.

During the second quarter, average apartment rents declined 23 per cent to Dh129,900, while average villa rents fell 19 per cent to Dh220,350. Although apartment rents declined more than villa rents in the second quarter, the opposite trend prevailed in the last quarter. Year-on-year, rents for villa and apartment rents have declined by 19 and 12 per cent, respectively. However, since peaking in the third quarter of 2008, villa rents have fallen 31 per cent, while apartment rents are down 29 per cent since their peak in the fourth quarter of 2008.

Relocation driving demand

Relocation from Abu Dhabi, Sharjah, the Northern Emirates, and within Dubai is the primary factor driving leasing demand. Abu Dhabi residents who moved to Dubai but commute to work in the capital are primarily motivated by location when choosing a new home. High-income commuters tend to prefer Dubai Marina/ Jumeirah Beach Residences, The Palm Jumeirah, Emirates Living villas and Green Community villas. Middle income commuters from Abu Dhabi tend to relocate to Jumeirah Lake Towers and Discovery Gardens.

Relocation demand from Sharjah is primarily price-driven and centres on more affordable areas such as Mirdiff, International City and Al Qusais. Anecdotal evidence suggests that rents are more rigid in premium locations that attract stronger demand. In those areas, landlords are less inclined to lower rents.

Overall demand for villas increased, showing 25 per cent growth in leasing transactions. Two- and five-bedroom villas experienced the heaviest rent declines, at 28 and 27 per cent, respectively. Three- and four-bedroom villas, however, saw rents fall by 18 and 11 per cent, respectively. Demand for short-term villa rentals remained stable in the second quarter, compared to the first quarter. However, where demand for short-term villa rentals was relatively well-distributed in the last quarter, the second quarter saw Emirates Living become the epicentre of this segment, accounting for 83 per cent of transactions.

Landmark expects a total of 22,700 residential units to be delivered by end-2009. This projection is slightly lower than estimates made last quarter, as developers continue to re-phase projects and delay construction. While the current estimate for new unit deliveries in 2010 is 40,400, it expects this to fall to 25,000-30,000 units over the next 12 months.

For end-users in need of financing, interest rates and LTV ratios are the key factors shaping residential sales demand. Mortgage rates are between 7.75 per cent and 10.5 per cent, but currently average around 8.5 to nine per cent. In contrast, construction financing rates, which shape supply side decisions, are currently seven to eight per cent.

"As such, a systematic imbalance persists, where residential demand is restricted by high borrowing costs and credit scarcity, while building is incentivised by lower capital costs on construction loans," said the report.

Price stabilisation

Signs continue to indicate probable sale price stabilisation in the fourth quarter, which, ceteris paribus, could be the beginning of a price floor. However, this is highly dependent on macroeconomic, financial, and real estate industry policies and trends. Based on historical trends, sale volumes are likely to dip during August and September, but then pick up again in the fourth quarter.

The strong demand for villas is expected to continue from investors and end-users. Based on current supply projections, villas will constitute less than 20 per cent of total residential unit deliveries in 2009, and even less in 2010-2011. Given these supply and demand characteristics, villas are likely to reach a price floor first.

Apartments, on the other hand, will be subject to additional sale price volatility due to the large volume of new supply expected over the next two years. However, price floors are expected to start forming in the short term within specific areas. Such areas will be defined by stable or limited supply, plus strong and continuous demand fundamentals.

Due to the continuing influx of new rental units, average villa and apartment rents will continue to decline into the fourth quarter. The intensity and longevity of these declines will depend largely on owner decisions, such as when to list the property and how much rent to charge. However, as leasing rates decline, additional demand from relocation is likely to support rent levels, keeping them from falling too sharply. While it is difficult to call a bottom, there is some evidence to suggest that rents in specific areas may stabilise in the fourth quarter. Ultimately this will depend on the supply-demand dynamics prevailing in each location.

Office space glut

The commercial office market in Dubai is entering a period of massive over-supply amid a pattern of demand destruction, which will probably last for quite some time. During the second quarter, office sale prices declined 12 per cent, but since peaking in the third quarter of 2008, Dubai office sale prices fell 42 per cent. Office rents fell on average 10 to 15 per cent in the second quarter.

The commercial property glut will continue to worsen over the next three years. During 2009, 10.5 million sq ft (977,000 sq m) of new office space will be delivered to a market already reeling from economic shocks. While supply figures for 2010 and 2011 may be revised downward in the future, actual delivery will exacerbate existing oversupply and push office prices and rents down.

To absorb the supply delivered only in 2009, Dubai's economy must generate 85,000-90,000 new office jobs. Based on the office-consuming share of total employment and the rate of expatriate economic activity, this rate of job creation will require a 20 to 30 per cent population increase. Even under normal circumstances, this growth rate would be virtually impossible.

Dubai office prices are likely to decline further, as additional supply enters the market. Given the prevailing market uncertainty and continuing credit scarcity, demand is currently minimal and likely to remain low. The main source of sales demand will come from companies with long-term commitments to the region.

Abu Dhabi market

While there are few transactions taking place in Abu Dhabi, the rate of real price declines appears to be slowing, for the time being. Average aggregate listing prices regained some stability in the second quarter, after declining sharply between the third quarter 2008 and the first quarter of 2009.

The slowing rate of price correction is mainly a consequence of significant adjustments having already played out during the fourth quarter of 2008 and the first quarter of 2009, as well as growing resistance by sellers to lowering their prices.

The second quarter average price declines affecting Abu Dhabi's main freehold master developments have been relatively homogenous at approximately 10-12 per cent. After the price declines seen during the fourth quarter of 2008 and the first quarter of 2009, the few transactions actually taking place are now very close to distress price levels. Price spreads between the lowest listing prices and transactions are now only five to 10 per cent. In Abu Dhabi, there appears to be an average price ceiling of Dh1,300 per sq ft for off-plan properties.

Average rents in Abu Dhabi are starting to reflect the broad correction now under way in the sales market. After uncontrolled rent hikes during 2008, rent growth tapered off (stabilised) in the first quarter. Since then, during the second quarter, rents have begun falling, especially for off-island villas and low-quality apartments. This correction will be a relatively slow process, spanning the next two to three years, as new supply enters the market.

In the second quarter, average asked apartment rents fell by about 10 per cent. Low-quality apartment units were especially affected, while rents for higher-end units were more resilient.

Villa rents

Since peaking in the third quarter of 2008, asked rents for villas continued to fall during the second quarter, registering an overall decrease of 23 per cent since the peak. During the second quarter alone, overall average villa rents decreased by roughly 10 per cent. More specifically, three- and four-bedroom villas were the hardest hit in the second quarter, with average rents for these units falling up to 15 per cent across Abu Dhabi.

Relative to current sale and leasing prices, average market rental yields in the second quarter remained at seven to 10 per cent, as sale prices and rent levels adjusted roughly in sync.

Yields are not likely to fall below six to nine per cent, even if rents and sale prices fall another 25 and 15 per cent, respectively. Current and projected yields are still well above those of comparable, mature markets.

In terms of market demand, Landmark maintains its conservative two per cent annual population growth forecast for Abu Dhabi, which would translate into a 27,000-unit undersupply at the end of 2010.

"According to our forecasts, even if the conservative two per cent population growth scenario persists for several years, the residential market is still likely to remain undersupplied for the next three to four years. Assuming a more optimistic six per cent annual population growth scenario, which is highly unlikely, the residential undersupply would reach 45,000 units by the end of 2010," said the report.

After marginal corrections in the second quarter, average rents are likely to keep falling, due to supply increases, proliferating vacancy rates, and growing consumer resistance to Abu Dhabi's high rents.

Commercial prices and transaction volumes have been impacted by tightened liquidity. There are currently very few transactions taking place, and investor appetite for commercial properties is minimal under current economic conditions. New supply flows, combined with demand destruction from the economic downturn, have lowered rents for lower quality offices by 10-25 per cent, depending on location.

Average commercial rents in Abu Dhabi range between Dh177 and 204 per sq ft (Dh1,900-2,200 per sq m).

Currently, Abu Dhabi has approximately 15 million sq ft of office space.

Landmark's research indicates that 21.9 million sq ft of office space is likely to be delivered by 2012. To put this in perspective, Dubai had approximately 30 million sq ft of office space at the end of 2008, and may have as much as 60 million sq ft by 2012.

The medium- to long-term strengths of Abu Dhabi's office market are currently overshadowed by the short-term risk from general economic uncertainty.

Sale prices are expected to keep falling, as leasehold demand remains stagnant. Investor defaults are expected to escalate as off-plan owners decide to abandon future payments, due to declining secondary market values.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Now reaching 8 o'clock?


----------



## Pleth

Dubaidog said:


> Well if that proves to be true, *anyone who is still left *will have something to celebrate at Christmas!


There won't be anyone left, except the Queen og England!:bash: :bash:


----------



## BlueBath

Salim said:


> ^^Now once again KM Properties have changed my unit number but no sign of contract. A dialama I can not resolved on my own. Be open about it.
> Any practical help? A solid, concrete response and a complete suggestion will be appreciated. No offence meant.


Man....! i believe, I'm experiencing the WORST with KM. It,s a nightmare to me. Hard to believe even.....signed the SPA after paying 70% !!!! the size, level, unit number & PRICE changed by then...... Management ?.....beyond any opinion !!!!!!!!!:bash: 

Please include me in your further proceedings...


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Now reaching 8 o'clock?


Some people may be already predicting the bottom of the market.

I have received offers to buy my Dorrabay 2 bed prime view apartment and it is not even for sale. Offers are around 1.6M with some on the market at up to 3.0M. None of those prices are realistic. Agents valuations at Oct 08 were 2.7M.


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> Agents valuations at Oct 08 were 2.7M.


market still dead, you can get that one for 1.44 million but I think if you offer them 1.3 million you can get it 

(A Stunning two bedrooms with direct marina view from 8th floor. )

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-for-sale/apartment/2009/7/22/dorra-bay/


----------



## Imre

bizzybonita said:


> Off plan property sales 'dead' - real estate MD


right, totally dead

I had a meeting with an agent yesterday , medium real estate company with around 20 agents , in this year they had only 2 off plan sales , Abu Dhabi Reem Island 800 dhs/sqft and something in Dubailand with -20% premium, thats all.


----------



## Mistermark

Imre said:


> right, totally dead
> 
> I had a meeting with an agent yesterday , medium real estate company with around 20 agents , in this year they had only 2 off plan sales , Abu Dhabi Reem Island 800 dhs/sqft and something in Dubailand with -20% premium, thats all.


Personally I think the market for resales of completed units, and possibly also the rental market, have reached the bottom now. However, it would take something more than a recovery in those two markets for the off-plan market to become viable again. It's not only about supply and demand, it also has to do with the solvency of developers and the legal and regulatory framework.

In say six months' time, were I a very solvent developer that had retained good profits from delivering projects and won some level of respect for delivering units, I would buy a land plot very cheaply from a distressed developer and release units off-plan with a 'reserve for a Dirham - nothing more to pay until completion' pledge, financing the project out of my own resources. Price the units at a discount to the completed projects nearby and watch the reservations roll in.

Other than that, I can't see off-plan recovering without Government action to reassure and safeguard investors. Which is actually good news for current owners.


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## dirtyharry1

Yes, with all the shit happened in the past with regards to offplan properties (delays and delays, lousy quality at the end - if ever completed) it is no wonder that people have learned their lessons and stop buying offplan. If the population is not shrinking but rising in the mid term future there will be further demand for completed decent properties.


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## Wannaberich

I guess the only way anyone can sell off-plan these days is to sell for way below the original price.I'm surprised thats not already happening.There must be some owners out there who hadnt planned for such a long period without a completed property so need to off-load quickly.


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## Imre

Wannaberich said:


> I guess the only way anyone can sell off-plan these days is to sell for way below the original price.I'm surprised thats not already happening.


even at any prices people will not buy off plan now, government companies (Emaar, Nakheel) failed , they have collected money from the investors and almost every projects ON HOLD now , nobody has any idea when they will start again.


----------



## Imre

*Former UAE-based realty executive jailed in Egypt*

Publish Date: 2009-08-12 01:00:35 Story Code: 19002

Malika Karoum, who previously held senior positions at three Dubai-based real estate companies, including Omniyat Properties, ACI Real Estate and Define Properties, has been convicted by an Egyptian court on charges of money laundering and involvement in weapons trading, media reported yesterday.

http://news.wadionline.com/news/19002/former-uae-based-realty-executive-jailed-in-egypt


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## Morten_Denmark

Imre said:


> even at any prices people will not buy off plan now, government companies (Emaar, Nakheel) failed , they have collected money from the investors and almost every projects ON HOLD now , nobody has any idea when they will start again.


So the mantra "buy from the big three to be sure" was really not the best !


----------



## Imre

*Former UAE-based realty executive jailed in Egypt *


Emirates Business 24-7, 12 August 2009

Malika Karoum, who previously held senior positions at three Dubai-based real estate companies, including Omniyat , ACI Real Estate and Define Properties, has been convicted by an Egyptian court on charges of money laundering and involvement in weapons trading, media reported yesterday.

Karoum had been in jail for the past six months in Egypt, where the Ismailiya State Security Court convicted her in April of money laundering and involvement in weapons trading, but acquitted her of espionage, said Netherland-based Revue magazine.

She was sentenced to 28 months in prison and the Court of Appeal upheld the decision last month.

Jacques Smits, an Amsterdam private investigator and former policeman, had been on Karoum's trail since January last year, the magazine said.

Smits only managed to get Karoum by phone.

The magazine reported on Karoum's connection with the Dutch company Palm Invest, which has come under the spotlight for alleged fraud.

Karoum's old boss at Omniyat took her with him in June last year when he launched Define Properties.

Define had 12 lots on Nakheel's Waterfront site, and relied heavily for funds on a key Karoum contact, an alleged Egyptian arms dealer.

But when stories began circulating about Karoum, her boss sacked her.

Later, Define could not raise enough capital and ACI Real Estate took over some of its properties.

http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZ...er UAE-based realty executive jailed in Egypt


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## Wannaberich

If the off-plan market doesnt take off when the Dubai economy recovers then potentially this could mean a big undersupply and prices rising again.
:cheers:


----------



## gerald.d

Wannaberich said:


> If the off-plan market doesnt take off when the Dubai economy recovers then potentially this could mean a big undersupply and prices rising again.
> :cheers:


Big undersupply you say?

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinancialServicesAndRealEstateNews/idUSL358951420090803



> DUBAI, Aug 3 (Reuters) - House prices in Dubai's battered property market are likely to stabilise by the fourth quarter, reflecting improving sentiment in global property markets, Colliers International said on Monday.
> 
> Prices in the Gulf emirate, which boasts man-made islands in the shape of palm trees, fell 9 percent in the second quarter from the previous one as the pace of decline slowed, the property consultants said in a report.
> 
> In contrast, prices in the once-booming real estate sector plunged 41 percent from the fourth quarter to the first quarter.
> 
> "We would hope that by the fourth quarter, we would have arrested the decline and are looking at stabilization," Ian Albert, Colliers' regional director told Reuters.
> 
> "I don't think you can disconnect Dubai from the global community. Any positive news from around the world will have a positive impact on Dubai."
> 
> Anglo-French property investor Hammerson (HMSO.L) on Monday cited stabilising UK real estate prices for slowing a decline in its net asset value for the first half of 2009. [ID:nLS227057]
> 
> Home prices in the U.S. rose in May for the first time in three years, while prices in Britain increased for a third month running in July, the latest signs suggesting both housing markets are stabilising. [ID:nN28406937] [ID:nLAG003611]
> 
> In Dubai, any pick-up in prices in 2010 would depend on easier access to mortgages and loans and the delivery time frame for new supply to the market. *Dubai is expected to be oversupplied by 32,000 new homes in 2010, according to Deutsche Bank figures.*


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...8132009_02de8310587748dcb8653ea18fbc8690.aspx



> Dubai is likely to see a surplus of 31,000 residential units mainly due to the decline in the expatriate population, while the shortage of units in Abu Dhabi will rise to 28,000 by year-end, according to JP Morgan.


----------



## Imre

*Surplus residential units in Dubai may hit 31,000 by year-end *

By 

Parag Deulgaonkar on Thursday, August 13, 2009 

Dubai is likely to see a surplus of 31,000 residential units mainly due to *the decline in the expatriate population*, while the shortage of units in Abu Dhabi will rise to 28,000 by year-end, according to JP Morgan.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...8132009_02de8310587748dcb8653ea18fbc8690.aspx

^^

*UAE population to exceed five million by year's end *

By 

Nadim Kawach on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 

The UAE's population will cross the five-million-mark at the end of this year for the first time since the country was formed as a federation of seven Gulf emirates nearly 38 years ago, official figures showed yesterday.

The bulk of the increase of nearly 300,000 people will be in the dominant expatriate community while Dubai is projected to maintain its status as the most populated emirate in the UAE for the second year running.


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...8032009_c722384159174481afb7517de9d6433f.aspx

:lol:


----------



## dirtyharry1

Imre said:


> *Surplus residential units in Dubai may hit 31,000 by year-end *
> 
> By
> 
> Parag Deulgaonkar on Thursday, August 13, 2009
> 
> Dubai is likely to see a surplus of 31,000 residential units mainly due to *the decline in the expatriate population*, while the shortage of units in Abu Dhabi will rise to 28,000 by year-end, according to JP Morgan.
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...8132009_02de8310587748dcb8653ea18fbc8690.aspx
> 
> ^^
> 
> *UAE population to exceed five million by year's end *
> 
> By
> 
> Nadim Kawach on Tuesday, August 04, 2009
> 
> The UAE's population will cross the five-million-mark at the end of this year for the first time since the country was formed as a federation of seven Gulf emirates nearly 38 years ago, official figures showed yesterday.
> 
> The bulk of the increase of nearly 300,000 people will be in the dominant expatriate community while Dubai is projected to maintain its status as the most populated emirate in the UAE for the second year running.
> 
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...8032009_c722384159174481afb7517de9d6433f.aspx
> 
> :lol:


That is really a good joke!:lol:

Quote:

Dubai is one of the riskiest property markets of the post-war era. Problems of total over-supply and population shrinkage will mean continous pressure on house prices. [...] and while one may debate the potential support from Abu Dhabi, the fundamental over-supply and population dynamics risks are very much there.

Saud Masud, property analyst at UBS, Arabian Business


----------



## Wannaberich

gerald.d said:


> Big undersupply you say?


Obviously Im not talking about an undersupply in the next 5 minutes.Figured u would have understood that.Am talking about maybe in 3 + years.


----------



## Mistermark

OK, here's a prediction: over the next 12 months the Dollar will continue to weaken and oil prices will keep rising. The first factor will help inward investment to UAE and the latter will drive money and people into AD, and a proportion of those working there will rent in the Jumeirah area of Dubai as rents in the capital rise.

These factors should lead to a hardening of rents and resale prices. I don't think they'll have any impact on off-plan because of the legal and regulatory failures of the Dubai government as previously mentioned.


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> market still dead, you can get that one for 1.44 million but I think if you offer them 1.3 million you can get it
> 
> (A Stunning two bedrooms with direct marina view from 8th floor. )
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-for-sale/apartment/2009/7/22/dorra-bay/


That's one of the internal 2 beds with no sea view and small master bed. 

You have been in my master bedroom and have seen how big it is!!:runaway:


----------



## mrobbie

Mistermark said:


> OK, here's a prediction: over the next 12 months the Dollar will continue to weaken and oil prices will keep rising. The first factor will help inward investment to UAE and the latter will drive money and people into AD, and a proportion of those working there will rent in the Jumeirah area of Dubai as rents in the capital rise.
> 
> These factors should lead to a hardening of rents and resale prices. I don't think they'll have any impact on off-plan because of the legal and regulatory failures of the Dubai government as previously mentioned.


I'm with you on this one... with the higher oil price there will be more cash in the region, which will in turn allow banks to a) increase their levels of lending, and b) reduce interest rates... 

But it all seems a bit hesitant.... get close to $74 a barrel and then drops back to $68.... Will be interesting to see when it gets to $80+. I'm hoping for November


----------



## Dubaidog

Mistermark said:


> OK, here's a prediction: over the next 12 months the Dollar will continue to weaken and oil prices will keep rising. The first factor will help inward investment to UAE and the latter will drive money and people into AD, and a proportion of those working there will rent in the Jumeirah area of Dubai as rents in the capital rise.
> 
> These factors should lead to a hardening of rents and resale prices. I don't think they'll have any impact on off-plan because of the legal and regulatory failures of the Dubai government as previously mentioned.


I agree on the oil price rising and US$ weakening over the next year which will help to firm up property pricing - i.e. stop further slides rather than drive any increases.

I don't agree with the idea that folks working in AD would rent in Jumeriah. Most people who are currently living in Dubai and working in AD live in the Green Community/Marina/JLT/Disco gardens areas to keep the daily commute to a minimum.


----------



## Dubaidog

mrobbie said:


> I'm with you on this one... with the higher oil price there will be more cash in the region, which will in turn allow banks to a) increase their levels of lending, and b) reduce interest rates...
> 
> But it all seems a bit hesitant.... get close to $74 a barrel and then drops back to $68.... Will be interesting to see when it gets to $80+. I'm hoping for November


I am convinced that once the global economy starts to climb out of recession and deliver solid growth (this may take another 18 - 24 months of stagnation & pain) then the oil price is going to spike again. I would put money on it (if I had any left :lol going above 100 US$/BBL in the next two years.


----------



## gerald.d

Wannaberich said:


> Obviously Im not talking about an undersupply in the next 5 minutes.Figured u would have understood that.Am talking about maybe in 3 + years.


Apologies due. I posted without really paying sufficient attention to your "when it recovers" comment.

Having said that, some people really do seem to think recovery is just around the corner though. Good to see some healthy objectiveness in your estimation


----------



## Wannaberich

gerald.d said:


> Having said that, some people really do seem to think recovery is just around the corner though


I do too.I just think a possible future undersupply due to an unrevived off-plan market may further boost prices.
Fingers crossed.


----------



## mrobbie

I like the theory, but the off-plan properties that are no longer coming to market are the ones that were likley to hit the market 12+ months from now - I assume anything that would be delivered before this time is still going ahead? If this is the case, the prices being driven up by the potential undersupply will not materialise until around that time - so another 12+ months until prices get that boost


----------



## True Blue

*Anyone know if Dubai has agreed to share bank info with HMRC?*

Offshore bank account details call

posted : THURSDAY, 13TH AUGUST 2009 05:26:07 BST 
comments : 0
Last Updated: Thursday, 13 August 2009, 01:26 GMT

- Search: Offshore bank accounts

More than 300 banks have been ordered to hand over details of customers with offshore bank accounts to HM Revenue & Customs. 

The move comes ahead of the New Disclosure Opportunity (NDO), which offers offshore account holders a final chance to disclose their affairs in exchange for a fixed penalty on any unpaid tax. 

The NDO, which kicks off in September, is expected to raise £150 million in 2009/2010 and bring in around £500 million over four years. 

HMRC said it would use the information demanded from the banks to ensure that everyone taking part in the scheme paid the right amount of tax and that disclosures were complete. People who make a full disclosure under the scheme will have to repay all the tax they owe, as well as a penalty of 10%. 

But those who do not take advantage of the NDO and are found to have undisclosed tax liabilities will face penalties of 30% to 100% of the amount they owe, as well as an increased risk of criminal prosecution. 

Financial Secretary to the Treasury Stephen Timms said: "It is wrong that some people evade paying their fair share of tax by hiding assets in off shore accounts. Today's ruling represents real progress in creating a level playing field for all taxpayers." 

A previous Offshore Disclosure Facility in 2007, which primarily focused on the customers of five large banks, brought in £400 million. 

The latest stage of the Government's crackdown on tax evaders comes the day after it announced it had signed a new deal with Liechtenstein. The Alpine tax-haven, in which around 5,000 Britons are believed to hold between £2 billion and £3 billion, agreed to exchange information to ensure UK residents with accounts in the country pay the correct amount of tax.


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Yup:

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090812/BUSINESS/708129934/1005



> *Expat bank account details to be exposed*
> 
> British expatriates who divide their time between their home country and the Gulf could have their financial information handed to UK authorities under a campaign to recover lost taxes.
> 
> The UK’s HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) was Wednesday given permission to order more than 300 banks and financial institutions in the UK to give details of the accounts of UK nationals with offshore interests, as it tries to uncover international tax havens.
> 
> 
> 
> Legal experts say the initiative could snare British expatriates who live and work abroad but spend part of their time each year in the UK.
> 
> “If you have someone who is British and living in the Emirates but has strong connections in the UK, there’s a risk they may not be paying enough tax and may face an inquiry from the revenue,” said Ray McCann, a director of banking and capital markets for PricewaterhouseCoopers in the UK.
> 
> ...


----------



## agod

Financial Secretary to the Treasury Stephen Timms said: "It is wrong that some people evade paying their fair share of tax by hiding assets in off shore accounts. Today's ruling represents real progress in creating a level playing field for all taxpayers." 

Like the dozen or more MP's caught with there pants down, after non-payment of taxes, hope Mr Timms has his own house in order, or the one in his wifes name, or the one his secretarys name, or the one in his cleaners name, or the one in his kiddies name, or the one in his girlfriends name, unless he's gay, then one in his boyfriends name.

Alan


----------



## Wannaberich

mrobbie said:


> I like the theory, but the off-plan properties that are no longer coming to market are the ones that were likley to hit the market 12+ months from now - I assume anything that would be delivered before this time is still going ahead? If this is the case, the prices being driven up by the potential undersupply will not materialise until around that time - so another 12+ months until prices get that boost


I did say maybe the undersupply situation,if it happens,might not have an effect till 3+ years.
I do think before though prices could rise anyway.
The way prices have gone in the UK this year,basically rising against predictions of continious falls until at least the end of the year,proves predications are very unreliable so we should keep an open mind.


----------



## 234sale

Under Supply was the period of 2006 - 2008\

Maybe we can have reasonable supply now, 

Over Supply I dont really believe in as everyone wants bigger for the money.

I am currently renting a Meadows for my company, most clients are either new to Dubai, or in Springs wanting more space for the money.

in 2008, 240K got you a 1E / 2E,, now you can get a Meadows 5Bed Villa for that.


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> Under Supply was the period of 2006 - 2008\
> 
> Maybe we can have reasonable supply now,
> 
> Over Supply I dont really believe in as everyone wants bigger for the money.
> 
> I am currently renting a Meadows for my company, most clients are either new to Dubai, or in Springs wanting more space for the money.
> 
> in 2008, 240K got you a 1E / 2E,, now you can get a Meadows 5Bed Villa for that.


Some people want bigger for their money,others want that extra money back in their pockets to have a good time with.
As for 5 Bed Villas and 240k,that might be a lot cheaper than last year but its still alot to pay out for rent.


----------



## High Times

True Blue said:


> Anyone know if Dubai has agreed to share bank info with HMRC?
> 
> Offshore bank account details call


You should pay more attention to me TB. I was telling you all this was going to happen (and more), back in *APRIL.* This is just the beginning I'm afraid.



High Times said:


> An issue you may not understand fully is that of domiciled residence. Let me explain. If all of these struggling western governments want to increase their tax cut, or reduce their tax flee (people moving to tax free locations). A stated aim of the recent UK budget, all they need to do is implement certain restrictions on their domicile rules. *I have already seen proposals from the UK government to do this and trust me it is not pretty.* It will not be announced until a new government gets elected in May 2010, but when it happens you can forget all your tax exiles coming to Dubai to escape UK taxes as UK taxes will be paid on worldwide income, just like it is for US citizens. Even if you are non-domiciled, you will still have to pay UK tax as Dubai will not allow ex pats to become residents of Dubai.


Hindsight and all that eh. hno:

Still plenty of ways for the *CLEVER* people to beat Mr Darling.


----------



## Wannaberich

^^
What a f.....ing scam.You can live in a tax free country yet still you may have to pay UK taxes just because that happens to be where you are from?
So even if you never move back to the UK you are liable to pay tax?cant be right?


----------



## Smokeey

I'm guessing that if you give up your UK residency completely (i.e. settle permanently in another country) then it doesn't apply? Just a wild guess really, but it would be daylight robbery if that wasn't the case.

Also what happens if Dubai implements its own taxes in the future? Do you then have to pay tax in both Dubai and the UK?!!


----------



## High Times

^^
Dubai simply enters into a Dual taxation Agreement, as many other countries already do with HMRC.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/in_force.htm

Dubai UAE will be in this list before too long I'm sure. Many other GCC states already there.


----------



## Smokeey

Thanks HT. Not good news - but as you say it was bound to happen sooner or later. Gonna potentially mess up alot of people's plans hno:


----------



## 234sale

High Times said:


> ^^
> Dubai simply enters into a Dual taxation Agreement, as many other countries already do with HMRC.
> 
> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/in_force.htm
> 
> Dubai UAE will be in this list before too long I'm sure. Many other GCC states already there.



Or U for U.A.E
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/in-force-t-z.htm

It will happen, the debt spiral has to be plugged some how

more predictions
super tax is re-introduced in the Uk 
10% unemployment.


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> more predictions
> super tax is re-introduced in the Uk
> 10% unemployment.


I think I'll wait until one of your predictions is correct before paying too much attention to that.

The last one i seem to remember you making was that the UK housing market would take at least 2 years to recover. You said that within the last 6 months.


----------



## 234sale

at least, for sure...

The lost decade here we come.

P.S I dont see how inland R will force banks here to give up details as people will just move the money out... Stalemate

What I mean is, if Dubai is so desperate for cash, will they just let it go...


----------



## High Times

You look at things too simplisticly I'm afraid.

There are bigger issues which are the true driving forces in international data sharing. Additoinal tax collection is more of a bi product of the true objectives, (a welcome one for most governments i agree).

The true force is International Money Laundering. Any country not complying with data sharing will be branded supporters of international crime and terrorism. "your either with us, or with the terrorists". Ring any bells.

As i say, there will always be loopholes. I am being breifed on some very interesting ones at present.

Where there's a fee, there's a way.


----------



## Imre

gerald.d said:


> ^^ Yup:
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090812/BUSINESS/708129934/1005


Russian , Iranian, Indian, Pakistani, Chinese investors already gone because of the residence visa, it seems some British also will ignore Dubai in the future , so only Emiratis left , they will save the property market ?

:lol:


----------



## gerald.d

Imre said:


> Russian , Iranian, Indian, Pakistani, Chinese investors already gone because of the residence visa, it seems some British also will ignore Dubai in the future , so only Emiratis left , they will save the property market ?
> 
> :lol:


Those who look on it purely from an investment perspective will go (and of course I respect the overall subject matter of this particular thread when making that statement).

There have been, are, and always will be, people who live in Dubai because that's where they choose to base their lives. There will always be a property market to support those people's needs. There was in 1999, there is now, and there will be in 2019.

Those who talk about "saving" the property market actually mean "saving" their own investments. People like myself who choose to live and work here really aren't that concerned about such things.


----------



## mike_rux

podium said:


> I don't really think Nakheels May update is much use, its nearly August.
> Docc, and any other investors, I drive past the site every day and it looks like they are making pretty decent progress.


since i decided not to sell my unit, i passed by one week ago, and i agree there's a good action going on on the site:banana:
i called my contact in Nakheel who informed me that a construction update letter is coming up for the project! What do you think the progress will be like?


----------



## TerryPop

*the twins*



Naz UK said:


> ^^ So dolphins and mind-altering drugs, your two passions. Any more?


errr hello? ting & tong... 

keep up


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai Holding's real estate companies move to offer a "swap" option*

Dubai Holding's real estate companies move to offer a "swap" option for investors of Sama Dubai and Mizin has so far received a positive response, a top company executive told Emirates Business.

"We have been working for the past six to seven months on allowing investors to swap their units from Sama Dubai and Mizin projects to our finished units such as Executive Towers or Jumeirah Beach Residence," said Hashim Al Dabal, Executive Chairman of Dubai Properties Group.

"We are co-operating with our investors and dealing with each case on an individual basis. The offer has been well-received by our investors."

In February, Dubai Holding said it was consolidating the back-office operations of its property companies by merging the administrative and back-office functions of Dubai Properties, Sama Dubai and Mizin, a subsidiary of Tatweer, to form closer working relationships by realising efficiencies through the consolidation. Later in June, Emaar Properties and Dubai Holding said they were in advanced talks over a potential merger of the publicly-listed firm with developers Dubai Properties, Sama Dubai and Tatweer.

Dabal said the real estate companies of Dubai Holding are leveraging each other's strength to the benefit of the parent company. "We have even offered partial options for investors. This means that people who have units in Lagoons can hold on to a few units there and can take some of our finished units."

When asked how the property prices were determined during a switch over, Dabal said that there was a price list set on the holding level, which was used at the time of negotiation. "The scheme is optional for investors," he added.

Bobby Sarkar, Vice-President, Equity Research, Al Mal Capital, said: "Consolidation helps the developer and ensures that the investors do not default down the road."


----------



## jagmp

finally i booked 5 nights hilton jumeirah and 3 nights atlantis for £710 pp with the flights from southalltravel.co.uk.amazing offer.:cheers:


----------



## gerald.d

Imre said:


> Dubai property market
> 
> http://dubai7stars.blogspot.com/
> 
> vs
> 
> http://dubai9stars.blogspot.com/


:lol:


----------



## 234sale

Probably owned by the same person... 

Like Bitter Homes and Investment Boutique...


----------



## fionnuala

Anyone interested in selling sea view shoreline 2or3 bedroom? Don't hesitate in contacting me.


----------



## 234sale

No adverts please or selling or buying.. Use gulf news or dubizzle


----------



## iownyou

what is the future of U.A.E.?

this is the question we should all ask. will it be a whole bunch of sand of will it be a thriving economy like others in the world.

give your opinion and the source for your answer.
where will prices be in 5 years
what will be the occupacy rate be for residencial and commmercial?
when will there be onother boom in the real estate market?
why do you think people would move their families and their businesses to U.A.E.?
who would move to U.A.E.?


----------



## smussuw

The future of the UAE shouldn not have anything to do with real estate or immigration !


----------



## Imre

*Brokerage firms report double-digit losses *

By 

Anjana Kumar on Thursday, August 20, 2009 

Brokerage firms in the UAE have recorded significant declines in revenues in the past 12 months owing to the slowdown in the real estate sector, with losses running into high double-digits, real estate brokerage companies told Emirates Business.

Elysian Real Estate, a Dubai-based brokerage firm, said there was a 60 per cent decline in sales commission earnings as it has recorded a drop in sales volumes by almost 50 per cent. 

"We were making 20 to 40 sales deals a month last year. Now we are doing about 10 to 20 in a month," said Robert Macnair, Sales Director, Elysian Real Estate.

"Our commission earnings last year were about Dh4 million to Dh6m per month. That has dropped to a monthly earnings of Dh2m to Dh2.5m," he said.

On the leasing front, Elysian Real Estate was concluding an average of 30 deals a month at this time last year. "Now, however, that has dropped to about an average of 15 deals a month," said Macnair.

Harbor Real Estate said its profits dipped 38 per cent during the period between the first half of 2008 and the first half of 2009. "Our revenues dropped approximately 40 per cent over the past 12 months. Sales volumes have dropped approximately 70 per cent," said Mohanad Alwadiya, Managing Director, Harbor Real Estate.

Peter Penhall, CEO, Gowealthy, also said due to the overall decline in investor activity within the real estate sector, his company has experienced a decline in its trading levels. 

"We have seen a drop in trading levels to the tune of 40 to 50 per cent from previous averages. However, this negative trend should be viewed against the backdrop of abnormal increases in trading volumes during 2008. The real correlation would be current trading vis-à-vis 2007 levels of trading."

Rajesh Kumar Krishna, Managing Director of UAE-based Indiana Real Estate, said his company has recorded a drop of about 70 per cent in revenues in the past 12 months. 

"This includes our profits and commission earnings all together. Brokerage firms are now trying to sustain themselves in as many ways as possible, since we are not recording much sales.

"We have also had to lay off a number of our estate agents in line with market conditions and our income through commissions has dropped massively by about 80 per cent in the past 12 months," he said.

Penhall said profits are based on two factors, revenue and costs. "It has been imperative that both these elements be addressed during the first half of this year. In light of the sharp correction in the brokerage sector, there will be a heightened level of 'inter-brokerage co-operation' reflecting a maturing real estate market. The correction in the brokerage sector will help more stable firms to naturally look towards supporting themselves in an effort not only to survive this change, but to emerge from it in a more matured manner," he said.

Brokerage companies also detailed the various measures taken by them to reduce their losses in the downturn. Many companies have adopted new policies, including developing a considerable leasing and international portfolio.

Alwadiya said one of the policies now pursued by brokerage firms is building a relationship with a network of other selective brokerages to help each other in sales. "This has helped companies to increase their reach and access different markets. The long-term partnerships, although involving profit sharing, are very effective in establishing a steady and sustainable stream of revenue for the brokerage firms," he said. 

Krishna said Indiana Real Estate was trying to sustain itself in the market by raising a leasing portfolio. "We are not going aggressive on sales at this moment, as there is no point at all. Even if brokers want to invest on the sales front, there is no business left," he said.

Macnair said: "We have had to adapt quickly to the downturn in the real estate sector. At Elysian, we launched a Malaysian project. And we have made a conscious effort to go outside Dubai. Having said that, developing an international portfolio or a leasing portfolio has only allowed us to minimise losses, not completely remove them.

"Real estate firms, which heavily sold off-plan properties, have suffered the most. Those which quickly resorted to developing a leasing portfolio have benefited."

Harbor Real Estate said its leasing volumes quadrupled in the past 12 months and the research and consultancy assignments doubled. "We have managed to optimise our revenue streams by focusing on specific areas of the market that emerged following the property crisis, including consultancy, research and leasing services and even consolidation transactions," said Alwadiya.

"In 2009, our leasing division became one of the main revenue generating streams owing to the increased demand for leasing. Brokerage companies have also benefited from the fact that developers and sellers started providing handsome compensation packages in return for sales results," he said.

Penhall said the leasing sector is witnessing an enormous level of competition with very low cash takeouts.

"Further, the leasing sector is compounded with unprofessional behaviour on the part of certain independent service providers. Therefore, we have chosen to retain a lower profile in the leasing market and our exposure to this sector of the real estate market is limited," he said.

He said like most brokerages in Dubai, Gowealthy, too, has had to adjust its trading model to suit market conditions. "Unlike most of the general brokerage companies during the past year or two, we chose to focus our business model on providing a dedicated service to a select number of developers, providing them with a full services-sales-marketing functionality," said Penhall.

"The market correction during the latter part of 2008 has seen a significant directional change away from off-plan properties, with the current focus being on the secondary markets in completed products. Our business model has seen a significant realignment during this correction period.

"Initially our focus was on realigning our revenue model towards the areas of business where there was action. Since February and March, Gowealthy has been extremely busy in servicing the 'open house' concept. We have achieved a significant number of transactions from this sector, which have helped in minimising trading losses during the first six months of this year."

According to Gowealthy, the recent months have reflected a steady increase in the number of overall deals, although current levels are at significant lows in comparison to 2007 averages. 

"We are seeing a slow increase in deal values within certain high demand areas, such as the Palm Jumeirah, Downtown Burj Dubai and Dubai Marina. We anticipate a further consolidation phase during the coming two months. The year 2010 looks to be a year of stabilisation and steady yet marginal growth."

Macnair said residential properties with good quality finishes were the ones faring well at the moment. "Prices in Tiara Residences in the Palm Jumeirah have gone up from Dh1.9m last December to Dh2.3m."

Alwadiya said affordable living areas such as Discovery Gardens and International City were becoming more popular among the middle-class rental segment.

"Yield generating assets are becoming very popular among the investors segment, such as ready properties within well-developed and maintained communities such as the Palm Jumeirah, Dubai Marina and Downtown Burj Dubai.

"Affordable housing is expected to generate higher yields over the short-term before the lower quality of the establishment begins to be reflected in potential tenant valuations. Hence, luxury properties that offer high-quality finishes, amenities and facilities are looked at as a safer long-term investment option," said Alwadiya.

Penhall said properties purchased before the late 2007 and 2008 boom phase should now be coming back into a net gain position. 
"As the market starts to reflect a glimmer of hope in positive price changes, it is becoming more difficult to source quality properties, so we see this as a particular driver of the short-term marketplace. Finished products, particularly villas, have shown the most activity. It is periods like this that force the most dynamic businesses to adjust to market conditions and it is the businesses that have been able to do so quickly and efficiently that will come out of this challenge stronger and better equipped to handle the up-kick in the market that will inevitably follow this period of crisis," said Penhall.

Alwadiya said the number of viewings and transactions during the second quarter of 2009 have increased dramatically compared to the first quarter of the year. "For us, viewings increased by 45 to 50 per cent in the last quarter."

According to Macnair, however, Dubai can expect to see a further reduction in sales and lease prices. 

"Only areas such as 'The Palm' and Downtown Burj Dubai will remain expensive. Areas such as Victory Heights and Al Farjan are all priced currently below 25 per cent of their original price. When prices reach 25 per cent below the original price, that is when people start buying in these areas," he said.

Krishna said Dubai's real estate has been delivered as an investment product. "Investors will only enter the market here once the world economy recovers. It is difficult to predict any revival time for Dubai as we have to wait till international markets show signs of recovery."

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...8202009_ce0fda652ccb4287b2ebcb0bb1a2a755.aspx


----------



## Imre

*Credit notes? What credit notes? *

Posted by: Bradley Hope on August 19, 2009 3:44 PM 

While developers keep mum on the thriving market for credit notes in Dubai and increasingly Ajman and Ras Al Khaimah, Crane Country presents the first complete list of projects where these transactions can take place. 

Quick definition of credit notes: Many buyers can't or do not want to pay their next instalment and want to get out of their property investments altogether. Meanwhile, opportunistic investors and people who bought at the peak are interested in buying these "deposits" - which is basically just cash tied up with the developer - at a discount. This way, the seller can recover some of their money and the buyer can reduce the cost of their own purchases.

Developers gain from these transactions, too, particularly if they want to cancel a project. They can carefully decide which projects they will accept credit notes from so as to increase the emptiness of the building and make it easier to refund the remaining buyers when they cancel it.

* Hat tip to Nathalie Gillet for the latest on this.

Check out the full list after the jump ...


*Emaar*

- Mushrif Heights
- Warsan
- Claren 2
- 18 Boulevard
- Bawadi
- Burj park2
- Burj Park5

* Nakheel*

- Furjan 2
- Venito 2
- Dubai Promenade
- Trump Tower
- Jumeirah Village
- Some sections of Waterfront
- Badrah 2
- Lake District D and E
- Mina al Rashid

Nakheel is also allowing similar swaps for land from these plots:

Mina al Rashid plot
Jebel Ali Crescent plot
Jebel Ali Village plots

*REIE (Ajman)*

- Marmooka City
- Awali City (pending)

*Rakeen (Ras al Khaimah)*

- Dana Island
- Marjan Island

http://blogs.thenational.ae/crane_country/2009/08/credit-notes-what-credit-notes.html#more


----------



## 234sale

Business 24/7 19-Aug-2009











smussuw said:


> The future of the UAE shouldn not have anything to do with real estate or immigration !


But it does, in fact it was the vision of Sheikh Zayed.

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA415745&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf


----------



## mrobbie

smussuw said:


> The future of the UAE shouldn not have anything to do with real estate or immigration !


The Future of UAE drives real estate (+ all other industries) and immigration...


----------



## Opus 2009

Hanna said:


> Dubai Holding's real estate companies move to offer a "swap" option for investors of Sama Dubai and Mizin has so far received a positive response, a top company executive told Emirates Business.
> 
> "We have been working for the past six to seven months on allowing investors to swap their units from Sama Dubai and Mizin projects to our finished units such as Executive Towers or Jumeirah Beach Residence," said Hashim Al Dabal, Executive Chairman of Dubai Properties Group.
> 
> "We are co-operating with our investors and dealing with each case on an individual basis. The offer has been well-received by our investors."
> 
> In February, Dubai Holding said it was consolidating the back-office operations of its property companies by merging the administrative and back-office functions of Dubai Properties, Sama Dubai and Mizin, a subsidiary of Tatweer, to form closer working relationships by realising efficiencies through the consolidation. Later in June, Emaar Properties and Dubai Holding said they were in advanced talks over a potential merger of the publicly-listed firm with developers Dubai Properties, Sama Dubai and Tatweer.
> 
> Dabal said the real estate companies of Dubai Holding are leveraging each other's strength to the benefit of the parent company. "We have even offered partial options for investors. This means that people who have units in Lagoons can hold on to a few units there and can take some of our finished units."
> 
> When asked how the property prices were determined during a switch over, Dabal said that there was a price list set on the holding level, which was used at the time of negotiation. "The scheme is optional for investors," he added.
> 
> Bobby Sarkar, Vice-President, Equity Research, Al Mal Capital, said: "Consolidation helps the developer and ensures that the investors do not default down the road."


^^
The swaps don't apply to Remraam. But does to other projects owned by Mizin.


----------



## williamX

to SMUSSUW:
Most of wealth which Dubai got is wealth from immigrants - people who believed to Sheikh Zayed and to Sheikh Mohammed and we invested to UAE. In beginning we were like honour guests, we were promised many things by government, after we invested decent amount of money we getting notices that we don't have rights for resident visas as investors. 
It's very pity lessons in eastern manner.


----------



## Philippa C

It's pretty obvious that current developments and future growth in the UAE can't be sustained by the Emirati population alone. It's a question of sheer numbers - if all the expats left there simply would not be enough people to occupy all the residential and commercial premises! So instead of resenting expats it's better to embrace the money (among other diverse attributes) they bring.


----------



## smussuw

williamX said:


> to SMUSSUW:
> Most of wealth which Dubai got is wealth from immigrants - people who believed to Sheikh Zayed and to Sheikh Mohammed and we invested to UAE. In beginning we were like honour guests, we were promised many things by government, after we invested decent amount of money we getting notices that we don't have rights for resident visas as investors.
> It's very pity lessons in eastern manner.


You were promised an ownership of a land and u got it. No other promises were given !



234sale said:


> But it does, in fact it was the vision of Sheikh Zayed.
> 
> http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA415745&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf


I don't see where it says that our future should be based on immigration and real estate. Beside Sheikh Zayed didn't allow non Emiratis to own land in his life. Anyway, even if he/they said so doesn't mean I should agree with it.


----------



## iamici

I cannot fathom why people continue to engage with Smussuw. 

Ok he claims to be an Emirati and I have no reason to disbelieve that. 

That initself does not qualify as an exemption with regard to the continually negative, borderline racist and small minded views he finds the need to repeatedly espouse on this thread. 

If we were on a thread discussing the economy and progress of real estate investment in London, would we be taking any notice at all of someone claiming to be a true born englishman who though all foreigners were a pesky nuisance. 

Its like a muslim alf garnett has managed to gain sway over this thread. I do not understand the time and respect he is given on the thread.


----------



## 9714

hno:


----------



## 234sale

Smussuw which period do you wish Dubai to remain in.... 

Personally I would of liked the UK to remain in the fifties


----------



## smussuw

^^ I like the Dubai the way it is minus some stuff, the fact that am whining doesn't mean I hate the life style all together.



Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Smussuw, perhaps if you let foreigners live amongst you (and guide and help them) rather than hating your fellow human beings (we are all of the same source spirit!), then you would be able to afford to buy land as UAE would be more prosperous :dunno:


lol, come on Dubai_Steve, u know that I don't hate you :tongue2: and I don't really see the relationship between being able to get a land and mingling with foreigners. Anyway, my reply was in the context of 234sale claim about the land ownership.

I have a white western friend in the UAE friend FYI :banana: :laugh:


----------



## 234sale

Just made this for arguement, first images are 1940s, its only half finished as thats how I see Dubai.

I hate people bashing Dubai on youtube and respect this country so much even to the point of seeing rubish on the street, picking it up and putting it in the bin.

I have friends of many nationalities, UAE, Saudi to far reaches of beyond,, even Albanian... Dubai is the biggest adventure I ever had.. cheers  Smussuw


----------



## Mistermark

smussuw said:


> You were promised an ownership of a land and u got it. No other promises were given !
> 
> I don't see where it says that our future should be based on immigration and real estate. Beside Sheikh Zayed didn't allow non Emiratis to own land in his life. Anyway, even if he/they said so doesn't mean I should agree with it.


Developers owned and part-owned by the ruling family and independent developers in master developments created by developers linked to the ruling family promoted residency visas and made clear undertakings to provide them in their sale and purchase agreements.

Dubai is a country with perhaps 150,000 native population. Without encouraging immigration, and by extension providing somewhere for immigrants to live, it's a pretty insignificant place in global terms.

More to the point, the oil that took it from being a nation of poor fishermen and camel traders to a state that was able to provide its indigenous population with free homes, education and even utilities will soon face the challenge of that oil running out. Fortunately its leaders have been visionaries who've worked hard to diversify, which has entailed increasing the population as described.


----------



## Mistermark

smussuw said:


> So because someone doesn't agree with ur mentality u throw the racism card, nice :crazy:


I think there are many different ways of defining racism. In the UK, we have only one class of citizenship, and all citizens are treated the same. We define any attempt to treat less favourably some groups of citizens, directly or indirectly because of their nationality, faith or ethnicity, as racism.


----------



## iownyou

ok ok ok guys
i came back today to this forum to read the answer to my question. and there is a war with some stupid smussuw. anyways the point of my question were for real estate future only but yes immigration is very important in U.A.E. the population is very small and 80% of the population are immigrants.
if anyone knows real estate they would also know suply and demand. and if there is no demand then the suply will be empty.
and the economy needs to grow with jobs etc. when poeple live in properties they spend money on food and other things and that creates jobs and more bisiness grow etc. is all a big chain . this is why i asked these questions to see other poeples views. i bought some property in dubai 4 years ago i should have sold it last year but o well i didnt but i would like to rent it out now and i am wondering if it will rent or not? no one will come to uae? or am i wrong etc. so smussuw take some real estate clases and get a job and stop waisting peoples time


----------



## smussuw

^^ I think u should listen because last time I checked they did exactly what I kept saying regarding the resident visa :laugh:


----------



## High Times

^^

'Ramadan Kareem'


----------



## 234sale

Ramadan Kareem


----------



## bizzybonita

Ramdan Kareem ...


----------



## Morrismarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> The property market in Dubai is stabilising and set for a rebound in 2011, according to the latest research but there is still a concern in the industry about over supply.
> 
> He reiterated that Dubai's property market was expected to see a rebound in 2011 after stabilising in 2010.


I don't understand why these experts think there will be "rebound" in 2011 and that's because they don't give any reason for it. What is going to lead to a rebound ? Beats me. There may be a pick up in world economies if we are very, very lucky. But how will this lead to prices in the UAE rising. There's unlikely to be much increase in the population and certainly if there is a little pick up it will not be enough to take up the slack in the massive oversupply of property comming on stream. I bet most people on SSC bought properties to rent out (me included) so we have a mass of landlords all competing to rent out their units. It's Buy to Let Land !! All I can see is that rents will keep falling until they hit rock bottom. ie. 30/40k pa for a one bed in the Marina perhaps ? Unable to sell and not worth renting what are all of us landlords going to do ? The place will be awash with new units in a couple of years time. There's 650 units in The Torch for starters, then add up the units in Princess Tower, Mag 218, Pinnacle, Ocean Heights, Infinity, Park Island, Trident Grand Residence, Marina Quays, Silverene, Atlantic, Pier 8, Elite Residences, Pentominium, Marina 23, Marina 101, 700 units in Bay Central, the Katherine Price Mondari Tower thing, etc.etc. And this is just the Marina for God's sake. Then there's all the other Dubai projects. It's already a tenants market. You get the picture.
Sorry if all of this sounds unduly pessimistic but will there really be enough tenants to fill all these units ? It will be a landlord's nightmare. 
Then add in the fact there the residency visa for those looking to retire in Dubai is only 6 months now, you have to have a property worth AED 1m, income of AED 10,000 pm and on top of this you have to stay out of the country for a month every six months and who'd want to buy a retirement home here ? Surely people from Europe won't bother when they can live in Cyprus, Malta etc, with just as great weather, but with permanent EU residency so none of this visa shit. Also Dubai will shortly be disclosing bank balances to the UK authorities so no longer a place to hide your savings. Then the UK looks likely by all accounts to make UK citizens pay income tax on all their overseas earned income, like the USA, so even working in Dubai won't be tax free any more as you'll be liable for UK income tax.
You know what I think Dubai is fucked.........or am I just having a bad day ???
If you disagree, fancy buying my one bed in Bay Central....... I can do you a very good price. :lol:


----------



## gerald.d

smussuw said:


> ^^ I like the Dubai the way it is minus some stuff, the fact that am whining doesn't mean I hate the life style all together.


Call me an old fogey, but I very much concur.

Dubai in the late 1990's was pretty much perfect as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Porcello

So far Marina and JLT are getting tenants mainly from Abu Dhabi; they are quite happy with the current rates, since 1 br in the capital is still fetching 120-150K; in JLT I see also tenants upgrading from International city.

Dubai landlords are doing whatever they can to fight the reduction of rental rates, as the bottom is not only dictated by what tenants are willing to pay but also by the financial commitments of landlords (mortgages, maintenance fees).

One of the big challenges for next year will be maintenance fees: they are really too high and have a big impact on the financial viability of buy to let investments. Fees collection is also proving to be a complex task with a large percentage of owners refusing to pay their dues, thus affecting the proper operation of the towers which may create additional assets devaluation. Let's just hope that associations will be finally given legal status so that owners can contribute to the preparation of realistic maintenance budgets.


----------



## True Blue

Morris, the thing that keeps me going is the thought that last year I would never have seen this market crash, similarly I can't see it going back up, but using the same eyes if you get my meaning.

We coudn't see it crash and we can't see it recover so anything is possible. We just need the world to feel rich againkay:


----------



## mackie1964

Morrismarina said:


> I don't understand why these experts think there will be "rebound" in 2011 and that's because they don't give any reason for it. What is going to lead to a rebound ? Beats me. There may be a pick up in world economies if we are very, very lucky. But how will this lead to prices in the UAE rising. There's unlikely to be much increase in the population and certainly if there is a little pick up it will not be enough to take up the slack in the massive oversupply of property comming on stream. I bet most people on SSC bought properties to rent out (me included) so we have a mass of landlords all competing to rent out their units. It's Buy to Let Land !! All I can see is that rents will keep falling until they hit rock bottom. ie. 30/40k pa for a one bed in the Marina perhaps ? Unable to sell and not worth renting what are all of us landlords going to do ? The place will be awash with new units in a couple of years time. There's 650 units in The Torch for starters, then add up the units in Princess Tower, Mag 218, Pinnacle, Ocean Heights, Infinity, Park Island, Trident Grand Residence, Marina Quays, Silverene, Atlantic, Pier 8, Elite Residences, Pentominium, Marina 23, Marina 101, 700 units in Bay Central, the Katherine Price Mondari Tower thing, etc.etc. And this is just the Marina for God's sake. Then there's all the other Dubai projects. It's already a tenants market. You get the picture.
> Sorry if all of this sounds unduly pessimistic but will there really be enough tenants to fill all these units ? It will be a landlord's nightmare.
> Then add in the fact there the residency visa for those looking to retire in Dubai is only 6 months now, you have to have a property worth AED 1m, income of AED 10,000 pm and on top of this you have to stay out of the country for a month every six months and who'd want to buy a retirement home here ? Surely people from Europe won't bother when they can live in Cyprus, Malta etc, with just as great weather, but with permanent EU residency so none of this visa shit. Also Dubai will shortly be disclosing bank balances to the UK authorities so no longer a place to hide your savings. Then the UK looks likely by all accounts to make UK citizens pay income tax on all their overseas earned income, like the USA, so even working in Dubai won't be tax free any more as you'll be liable for UK income tax.
> You know what I think Dubai is fucked.........or am I just having a bad day ???
> If you disagree, fancy buying my one bed in Bay Central....... I can do you a very good price. :lol:


No my dear Morris you are not having a bad day. The Dubai dream is well and truly over !!

I have been coming to the UAE since I was a kid and we always had interests in Dubai and both my day job and private venture businesses remain operational both in Dubai, UAE and the ME in general and I have many Emarati friends, so it saddens me to admit it but yes the dream is all over for me in Dubai.

Its not just about real estate, it is becoming very hard for businesses to operate in Dubai and over the next few months / years you will see many of the big players disappearing. They will remain operational in Dubai but not at the same level and on their own terms. Businesses will become much smarter at both selection and exposure to risk when it comes to countries like the UAE in future.

Back to real estate, I have just spent the last couple of weeks in the south of France in our place that was delivered 4 months early to very high standards and the developer actually gave us the keys without the final 35% payment which is not due until November. Spending the last couple of weeks amongst those beautiful people and being free to do what we want and the freedom of movement and being 1.5 hrs flight from home or a day driving made me question the madness of getting caught in the whole Dubai thing. Yes I love the place and will probably always will and will always have good friends there and probably continue to do business (selective projects) but I am now adamant to completely exit the Dubai property market. Once my current tenancy contracts finish, I will be selling everything at probably a small profit. I can see why people are a bit more optimistic about the Dubai market and I share that to a degree but it is not worth the hassle and as I like Smussuw, he can have his country back (at least the part that I own) 

Happy Ramadan/Eid to all of those who celebrate it :cheers:


----------



## Philippa C

smussuw said:


> . All I can say regarding the lands is that it is the government who own 99% of the land and not Emirati nationals and the majority of the Emiratis who were fortunate to get some here and there got it only because they are close to the royal family and have connections. No one would say no if he was offered a land. We wait for 2 years queues to get a pathetic plot of land to build our houses for Allah's sake, what r u talking about :laugh: and the majority of us cannot afford buying land ourselves. The one who sold the land, if they did, probably did it only because they cannot afford building it.


Are there many other countries in the world where citizens are given land free of charge and then get a very low interest loan to build their homes? I know people who were given land and are not close to the ruling family (so that's not a condition) and the land is not supposed to be sold/transferred once it's given. The house can be rented out when built though and before the Emaar etc developmets locals had a virtual stranglehold on rental properties and did very nicely too.

The UAE offers expats and locals a lot of advantages. The locals are particularly well looked after by their government and instead of complaining and feeling entitled to certain rights and a particular standard of living by virtue only of birth they should take up all the options and advantages open to them. Thankfully, that's what many entrepeurs and business people have done and what the ruling famiiles want their people to do.

BTW, I'd be happy to wait 2 years for free land, having queued for days to PAY for a freehold property


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai International Airport has recorded double-digit growth in passenger traffic in July.

Defying the global aviation downturn, it said year-on-year passenger traffic rose 12.6 percent, the largest hike since May 2008, and its second consecutive month of growth.

Dubai Airports Chief Executive Officer Paul Griffiths said: “The Middle East continues to demonstrate vibrant growth during the global economic downturn and Dubai International is at the epicentre of that growth.”

“The double-digit increases we’ve seen in the past two months are the direct result of a boost in passenger numbers from Emirates and other long-haul network carriers and continual growth in the low cost sector,” he added.

The year-to-date traffic at the end of July stood at 23.15 million passengers, up 6.1 per cent from the same period last year, according to the company.
Griffiths also remained upbeat about its cargo division. He said “As for cargo, considering that airports around the world continue to record sharp decline in freight traffic, we have fared well.”

Cargo traffic for July rose 1.9 percent from the same month last year, reversing the fall in traffic recorded in June, DIA said.
Griffiths said that the outlook for the remainder of 2009 was bright, but that growth figures for August and September are likely to fluctuate and reflect the holy month of Ramadan.

DIA is now ranked the world’s 6th busiest airport in international passenger numbers according to the Airport Council International. It also ranks Dubai Airports Cargo as the world’s 4th busiest for international air cargo.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I wonder what the supply / demand ratio will be in Dubai in 3 or 4 years time. By then will all supply have been taken up? There is and will be very little new property available on the market then, due to the complete stop of off-plan sales. Could that be the next property boom Morris / TB etc. are looking for? I also think the bottom has been reached and I cant see things stagnating forever.

What is needed is more business incentives and some trust that the projects which got us all to speculate in the first place such as Dubailand, Waterfront etc. will happen. I think many of us got swept up the the Dubai market machine and ploughed everything we had into Dubai becuase of the so amazing Vision and excitement, which unfortunately never happened and so other destinations now appear more attractive than Dubai for investment.


----------



## TerryPop

mackie1964 said:


> No my dear Morris you are not having a bad day. The Dubai dream is well and truly over !!
> 
> I have been coming to the UAE since I was a kid and we always had interests in Dubai and both my day job and private venture businesses remain operational both in Dubai, UAE and the ME in general and I have many Emarati friends, so it saddens me to admit it but yes the dream is all over for me in Dubai.
> 
> Its not just about real estate, it is becoming very hard for businesses to operate in Dubai and over the next few months / years you will see many of the big players disappearing. They will remain operational in Dubai but not at the same level and on their own terms. Businesses will become much smarter at both selection and exposure to risk when it comes to countries like the UAE in future.
> 
> Back to real estate, I have just spent the last couple of weeks in the south of France in our place that was delivered 4 months early to very high standards and the developer actually gave us the keys without the final 35% payment which is not due until November. Spending the last couple of weeks amongst those beautiful people and being free to do what we want and the freedom of movement and being 1.5 hrs flight from home or a day driving made me question the madness of getting caught in the whole Dubai thing. Yes I love the place and will probably always will and will always have good friends there and probably continue to do business (selective projects) but I am now adamant to completely exit the Dubai property market. Once my current tenancy contracts finish, I will be selling everything at probably a small profit. I can see why people are a bit more optimistic about the Dubai market and I share that to a degree but it is not worth the hassle and as I like Smussuw, he can have his country back (at least the part that I own)
> 
> Happy Ramadan/Eid to all of those who celebrate it :cheers:


its a cycle- someone will be there to pick up your cheap apartment and will try to work it, and so a new land lord will be born.

The med is a lovely place to be in summer, beautiful, civilised etc- its heaven, but Dubai is business. I wouldn't confuse or compare the two.


----------



## Hanna

*Nakheel Dubai Government controlled developer presses buyers for cash*

Nakheel Dubai Government controlled developer presses buyers for cash 

source The National 20. August 2009





Nakheel is asking investors using credit transfers for property purchases to top up their payments with cash, as it seeks to raise funds ahead of a mid-December due date for a Dh3.5 billion (US$953 million) bond.

According to brokers, the Dubai Government-controlled developer allows investors in delayed projects to sell their downpayments to other investors who have already invested in other Nakheel developments.


But now the company is no longer allowing customers to use credit transfers alone to fund instalments, and is demanding that part of the payments are made in cash, brokers say.


“For example, when a buyer has Dh1m to pay, Nakheel would say you need to pay 30 per cent in cash, which makes Dh300,000,” said one broker, Farid Ahmad Hussein.

“They will accept a credit transfer of Dh700,000 from somebody else. The investor can get this Dh700,000 maybe at 40 per cent discount now in the market from another investor. In total he has saved Dh280,000.”

Nakheel needs to pay back a Dh3.5bn bond on December 14, in what is being seen by international lenders and rating agencies as a litmus test of the Dubai Government’s willingness to support its affiliated companies facing financial difficulties.

So called “credit consolidations” were triggered by the collapse in property prices last autumn, which saw scores of developments either cancelled or delayed and effectively ended the “off-plan” property market.

Investors in stalled projects have been able to sell their downpayments, usually at a loss, to other customers of the same developer, and then those downpayments can be used on continuing projects. These credits can only be transferred between buyers that have already made downpayments and are not available on the secondary market.

Developers facilitate the transfer of credit between investors in different projects to generate funds needed to complete some developments, while also making it easier for them to abandon others. External brokers help to match buyers.

Unlike other developers, Nakheel requires the transfer of ownership between investors to be completed before credit is moved between properties.

“Investors in projects that have been deferred have the option of consolidation if they own other properties within the Nakheel portfolio. The advantage to the investor is that Nakheel is able to hand over property to the owner sooner than it might on a deferred project and help investors reduce their financial exposure,” Nakheel said in a statement. The developer declined to comment on whether cash payments were also required to complete property consolidations.

Nakheel has shortened the time it takes to complete such transactions to about a month, from three or four months previously, according to brokers.

Nakheel, the developer of The Palm Dubai, has spent billions of dirhams on projects that are still under construction, while adding further offshore island developments including The World and The Universe.

But development on such a massive scale has come at a high price for the company, which is now struggling to repay debts accumulated during the six-year building boom.

The trade in credit notes on stalled projects is helping revive activity in the property sector, according to Rajesh Sony, a director of Bluechip Real Estate. The firm, he said, generates 90 per cent of its turnover from matching buyers and sellers of credits.

“This is a win-win situation between the developer and investors. If all the investors of one project transfer the money elsewhere, the developer may call off the project without having to refund the money to investors. At the same time, investors can get out of the market without losing all the money, and other investors in ongoing projects can pay their instalments at a cheaper rate,” he said.

The exchange of Nakheel credit, or consolidations, began in February on projects that include the Dh4.4bn Dubai Promenade, and the Dh2.9bn Trump Tower, the centrepiece of Dubai’s original Palm Island development, according to Mohammad Mujtaba Vakil, a broker from Linkage Real Estate.

He said that while cash components were not requested on earlier transfers, Nakheel now “would not accept anything less than 30 per cent”.


----------



## Morrismarina

Freestyler said:


> Well it is called *contrarian investing* when everybody is selling it is time to buy and when everybody is buying it is time to sell. You can read it in detail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrarian_investing


Oh I see you were just being nothing more than contrarian.........works every time.:hilarious


----------



## houshang

Only if everyone was as positive and informative as Dubai steve.
Cheers...... steve:cheers:


----------



## iownyou

well i hope for the best i wont stress anymore if it rent good if emty o well if it falls too bad. life will keep going


----------



## Dubai_Steve

A further fall in rents in Dubai's residential sector is imminent, agree most property agents in the emirate, although opinion is divided on the extent by which rents are likely to fall across the sector by year-end.

"From the time after Eid until the end of the first quarter of 2010, depending on the location and development, there is room for 'significant' rental price reduction. There is a strong likelihood prices will continue to drop between 20 per cent and 40 per cent," Robert MacNair, Managing Director, Elysian Real Estate, told Emirates Business. "There is a clear rental price variation between buildings in the same development. For example, two towers at the Jumeirah Lake Towers' (JLT) – Icon and Green Lake – are priced widely apart. We currently have a one-bedroom apartment in Icon Tower going for Dh50,000 per annum and a one-bedroom apartment in the Green Lake going for Dh85,000 per annum. The rents will have to level up downwards."

MacNair said more than 4,000 to 5,000 units are likely to be handed over from now until the year-end and more are to be handed over from the year-end until the end of the first quarter of 2010.

"We are likely to have an over-supply situation. To get the best indication of this, take an evening drive through the Marina, West Marina and JLT and see how few lights are lit in these buildings. The good thing is that sales prices, on the other hand, are likely to start leveling from the first quarter of 2010 onwards with a little price increases in some areas due to location and the finish of the development."

Rosaleen Twyford, Branch Manager, Sherwoods Property Consultants, said: "It would be safe to say that tenants looking at moving in the next six months should be able to benefit from a five to 10 per cent drop in rents due to more properties coming to completion.

"Areas such as Dubai Marina, JLT and Jumeirah Beach Residence (JBR) may see a drop of five per cent in rents depending on the location of the development and its finish."

However, not all property agents are of the view that rents will dive further. Some, such as Larissa Vitvitskaya, Business Development Manager at Clifton Real Estate Consultants, said rents were unlikely to drop any more.

"I am not expecting any major rental drop as I am not expecting much handover to happen after Eid or by end of the year. We think rents have not fallen in the past few months; they have levelled. Enquiries and viewings have increased in the last four to five months. Obviously, people are keen to move in. From a sales perspective, I don't think prices are going up in a major way, but seeing prices not falling is in itself a big improvement," she said.

And for Muhammad Avais Najam, Managing Director of Venture Horizon Real Estate Brokers, the real estate market in Dubai seems to be taking a happily different turn, with rents and even sales prices showing some signs of recovery in certain areas.

"The high-end villas in Jumeirah Islands were renting for Dh250,000 a year in the first quarter of this year. Now the rate is Dh300,000 and there is no availability. We continue to witness extremely strong and healthy rental demand and this, to me, is a positive sign."

He said it is too presumptuous to say that rents would fall further because of a large supply coming into the market. "The only large supply worth mentioning is the Executive Towers, which does not amount to a lot of residential properties in the market. Plus, rental demand has been going high for these units."

According to Better Homes' statistics, 11 projects are likely to be handed over in Dubai from now until the end of the first quarter of 2010. Emaar Properties is likely to hand over Burj Dubai by early December, while the Lofts and Ghadheer is due for completion in the same month. Executive Towers in Business Bay is starting hand-over and Victory Heights in Dubai Sports City will be delivered starting now until December-end. Apartments and villas in the Green Community West will be handed over by year-end, while the first and second phase of Jumeirah Park and Al Furjan by Nakheel will be delivered during the first and last quarters of 2010 respectively.

According to Sherwoods, Emaar's The Marina-Park Island is readying for handover along with townhouses in Jumeirah Village. Emaar has already commenced handover of three towers in The Downtown Burj Views.

Twyford said during pre-summer many buyers were either scared or sceptical to purchase properties, as the notion was property prices would decrease after Eid.

"However, when you look at the overall picture, sellers have already put their properties in the secondary market whether because they were faced with financial stresses or other reasons such as leaving the country. As a result, these have been sold and we are seeing a plateau in property prices now."

Sales prices in Dubai have been stable, with prices holding up in certain areas and in some cases even seeing a slight increase.

Laura Adams, Sales and Leasing Manager, Better Homes, said: "Most people were sure that the handover of the Tiara Residence and the Golden Mile on the Palm Jumeirah would have reduced the prices of the more well-established units such as Shoreline Apartments. This, however, was not the case; the shoreline is still holding its price from just a couple of months before the handover, though still at a reduced rate compared to last year. Prices have stayed stable since May. In Downtown, the demand is still high for properties although we have Burj Views already handed over, which is helping to keep prices stabilised."

Claire Collier, Manager, In:Style Real Estate, said: "Sales prices have stabilised in Dubai and while they may not increase dramatically after Eid, it is unlikely they will come down any further. We do not expect any drop in rents either. So far, August has been our busiest month for rental and sales enquiries."


----------



## rexdmx

High Times said:


> *Mackie, Your a clown.*


very low blow HT and totally uncessary. i do remember you making silly predictions and statements when you were quite convinced that Dubai was heaven. i dont know if you pulled it out or not but my my you do have a lot of time...


----------



## 234sale

Agreed. 

Also, Please read the rules,

5. No flaming, name calling, or general lamership. If someone is verbally abusive towards you, be an adult and ignore the other person. This is not real life, and all the name calling in the world will not settle your argument.

Any continuation of member bashing will be dealt with moderation.


----------



## sandstone

Freestyler said:


> Well it is called *contrarian investing* when everybody is selling it is time to buy and when everybody is buying it is time to sell. You can read it in detail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrarian_investing


In the US stock market with which I have traded heavily - unless you are an institution, corporate insider or a market maker - this is the biggest trend indicator of them all: the contrarian

Wiser, I was watching real estate a couple years ago and the SAME principles apply. I had a funny feeling that when newpapers were writing about people sleeping overnight on the street to get into a random drawing for a chance to buy a US$ 1 million 1800 sq ft apt in Orange County (Irvine) - that was the herd effect in full force and the contrarian signal to SELL.


----------



## AppleMac

Dubai_Steve said:


> MacNair said more than 4,000 to 5,000 units are likely to be handed over from now until the year-end and more are to be handed over from the year-end until the end of the first quarter of 2010.
> 
> "We are likely to have an over-supply situation. To get the best indication of this, take an evening drive through the Marina, West Marina and JLT and see how few lights are lit in these buildings."


Oh please not this old chestnut - a more accurate measure would be to actually look at how many cars are in the carpark each night and in my building it is busier now than it was at this time last year.



> According to Sherwoods, Emaar's The Marina-Park Island is readying for handover


What a load of old cobblers, it is about 6 months away from handover - either this clown should get out of the office and actually take a look at the site or even read Skyscrapercity rather than press releases from Emaar..


----------



## Imre

*Press Release*

*45 per cent of projects planned in the Gulf currently under construction in UAE *

*Dubai-based developer Memon Investments reiterates support to UAE’s construction leadership*

August 23, 2009

Forty-five per cent of projects planned in the Gulf, which have a total value of USD 930 billion, are currently under construction in the UAE, according to recently published reports, thereby asserting the country’s leading position in terms of developments and project activity in the region. Forming part of the massive bulk of construction projects in the UAE is the AED 1.34 billion project portfolio of Memon Investments, a leading Dubai-based property developer and part of the international business conglomerate, the Memon Group of Companies. Among the projects under this billion-dirham portfolio are high profile developments within the UAE’s most sought-after communities, including luxury residential projects 'Champions Towers' series, 'Gardenia I & II’, and ‘Frankfurt Sports Tower I’; as well as its inaugural commercial tower - 'Cambridge Business Centre' (CBC).

The study further revealed that despite the economic slowdown, the value of property construction is four times higher than what had been estimated in June 2005 and represents an annual growth rate of nearly 50 per cent. In addition, some 81 per cent of the UAE projects are in the construction sector, which indicate that the country has overtaken all GCC states in terms of total value of projects. Amidst ongoing prospects within the construction industry, which is witnessing early signs of recovery, Memon Investments is committed to the ongoing construction of its projects, encouraged by the relatively lower costs of construction, in an attempt to ensure timely delivery and customer satisfaction.

“The strong standing of the UAE in the construction market is an indicator of the capacity of developers of locally-based projects to proceed with the construction of launched projects amidst the challenges presented by the economic slump,” said Ahmed Shaikhani, Managing Director, Memon Investments. “As one of the leading players in the Dubai property market, we leverage our extensive industry expertise and strong financial backing, thereby enabling us to proceed with unhindered construction works on our flagship projects.”

Construction on the four towers under the ‘Champions Tower’ (CT) banner are progressing at an impressive pace, with various important contracts already been awarded to a number of top contractors, including leading MEP companies as well as companies that specialise in elevator and air-conditioner installation. Moreover, construction of eight of the 10 floors within CBC has been completed, with initial steps already being made in preparation for the scheduled handover of the project to investors by the fourth quarter of 2009. The company also previously announced that it is fast-tracking the construction of ‘Gardenia I & II’ and ‘Frankfurt Sports Tower I’, in line with aims to hits their respective delivery deadlines.

“The outstanding progress we have recorded across all our projects is the result of our strong collaboration with industry-leading partners, and our own initiative to expand our core competencies. Now, despite the challenges of the current economic slump, we are looking forward to the completion and handover of all our projects, as we gear up to take on more challenging developments that will satisfy the demands of our highly-discerning clientele,” concluded Shaikhani.


----------



## agod

Moreover, construction of eight of the 10 floors within CBC has been completed, with initial steps already being made in preparation for the scheduled handover of the project to investors by the fourth quarter of 2009. The company also previously announced that it is fast-tracking the construction of ‘Gardenia I & II’ and ‘Frankfurt Sports Tower I’, in line with aims to hits their respective delivery deadlines.

More Bolloxs, I am in CBC, and it has been put back to April next year, from racing ahead, it's gone into the pits.

Alan


----------



## jba

Is it a private sector holiday today in Dubai?

What are the usual working hours in Dubai during ramadan?


----------



## bizzybonita

Office rents stabilizes, residential mortgages revive in UAE


Office rents in Dubai Silicon Oasis, Deira and Bur Dubai may have bottomed out, as these areas have not witnessed any major rent reduction during the past month, reveal property analysts.

According to Porush Jhunjhunwala, Manager - Commercial Leasing at Better Homes, a real estate firm, there has been only a marginal reduction of one to two percent during July-August, and this indicates that office rents in these areas have possibly bottomed-out.

*However, areas such as Jumeirah Lake Towers, Al Quoz, Ghusais and Tecom are likely to see another 5 to 10 percent correction before rents begin to stabilize there, he said.*

David Macadom, Director-Sales and Leasing Commercial at Better Homes, said that the current office vacancy for leasing availability is nearly 15.5 percent. Commercial lease rates have dropped from 40 to 60 percent, based on the area and size of office premises, grade of building, accessibility to the locality, parking facilities and location of the building.

According to Macadam, the office leasing transactions are now leveling off in the range Dh.80 to Dh.150 per square foot per year. There are no declines below these rates.

According to the latest data from Better Homes, the Dubai Silicon Oasis has seen the maximum reduction in office rents (nearly 65 percent), compared to January this year.

The current office rental rates are in the area of Barsha and Dubai International Airport are in the range of Dh.50 to Dh.70 per square feet, with a decline of more than 55 percent in office space.

Office rent rates at Barsha are in the range Dh.80 to Dh.120 per square feet, while in the Dubai International Airport locality, rents range from Dh.90 to Dh.120 per square feet.

The areas that have seen a 55 percent decline since the beginning of the year are Deira (Dh75-110/sq ft), Garhoud (Dh80-110/sq ft), Sheikh Zayed Road (Dh110-170/sq ft) and Umm Hurair (Dh90-120/sq ft), while Karama (Dh90-120/sq ft) and Qusais (Dh80-110/sq ft) have seen a dip of more than 50 percent.

Areas such as Bur Dubai (Dh90-115/sq ft) are down by 50 per cent, Dubai Investment Park (Dh70-85/sq ft) and Jumeirah Lake Towers (Dh55-120/sq ft) are down by 47 to 48 percent from their January levels. This is followed by Downtown Burj Dubai (Dh170-200/sq ft), with 46 per cent reduction and Al Quoz (Dh75-90/sq ft) with 41 per cent drop.

The least affected locality is the Dubai Health care City (Dh.115-145/sq ft), down by more than 35 percent.

In the meanwhile, banks and lending agencies in the UAE are recording healthy growth in residential real estate mortgages, which indicate that prices may be reaching levels that are once again of interest by the end-users seeking to purchase properties.

The HSBC-UAE has witnessed a 25 percent growth in mortgage lending value during the second quarter this year, compared to that during the first quarter.

"As price expectations between buyers and sellers are converging, more transactions are happening both for property sales and mortgages," said Venkatesh Srikantan, Regional Head - Assets and Liabilities, HSBC Middle East.

There is an increase in demand from end-users who had missed the earlier property booms and are happy to purchase property at those price levels, Srikantan said


----------



## glover

*Al Mazaya marks $100m to buy Dubai properties*

_more and more such real estate buying funds are being announced in the last few weeks! probably there are more of them out there, but not being publicized!
when institutions re-enter the market, this usually means we have seen bottom!_
-----------------------------------------

The Dubai property market has hit the bottom, says Al Mazaya. 

Parag Deulgaonkar on Monday, August 24, 2009
business24-7

Kuwait-based Al Mazaya Holding has earmarked $100 million (Dh367 million) to buy properties on The Palm Jumeirah, Burj Dubai and Dubai International Financial Centre area, a top company executive has revealed to Emirates Business.

"We have put $50m aside and other investors from Kuwait have committed to invest the other $50m. We feel the market has hit the bottom. It is very attractive to buy now, as this opportunity will not last for a long time," Khalid S Esbaitah, Chief Executive Officer of Al Mazaya Holding said in an exclusive interview.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...8242009_c031daf935ef4d0e8ced8aa28f02bfa5.aspx


----------



## Imre

*Legal process in Dubai takes 18-24 months *


Karen Remo-Listana on Monday, August 24, 2009 

Litigation cases in Dubai take on average 18 months to resolve, according to leading lawyers – and hearings may soon go on for even longer as more disputes flood the courts.

"Court proceedings may well take in excess of 18 to 24 months from filing a case at the Court of First Instance to being in a position to enforce an executable judgment," Stephen Ballantine, Senior Legal Consultant at Galadari & Associates, told Emirates Business.

Salem Salem Al Shaali, General Manager at Al Shaali & Co, said: "When we consider three-stage litigation, the process usually takes a year and a half. However some cases might be solved in three months and this is what we are experiencing with real estate disputes. We can consider three months as the standard period for first degree litigation."

In many instances cases pass through all the possible stages from lower court to appeal court, supreme court and execution court, making the length of time taken much longer.

About 90 per cent of disputes are resolved before a complaint is even filed with the courts and between 70 and 90 per cent of cases that are referred to the courts are resolved before a hearing takes place.

However the percentage of cases settled in the early stages of the legal process in Dubai is far lower than the global average because of the country's legal payment structure. The rule here is that each party is responsible for its legal costs, win or lose, and lawyers say this tends to "lock in" parties engaged in litigation until a final judgment is reached.

"If this costs rule were changed – making the losing party pay the winning party's legal fees – the volume of cases being filed in the courts would be dramatically reduced," added Ballantine.

This structure is being applied at the DIFC Courts, the region's only English-language, common law court.

DIFC Courts Registrar Mark Beer said: "In most common law systems the losing party pays all the legal costs. In our court, generally, the winning party's legal costs are paid by the losing party. This makes people think seriously before going to court – it deters them from bringing spurious claim."

Going to court in Dubai carries a high price, as it does anywhere in the world. KK Sarachandra Bose, a partner at Dar Al Adalah Advocates & Legal Consultants, said that in order to file a recovery case here a litigant had to raise an average court fee of 7.5 per cent of the amount claimed, with a cap of Dh30,000. "There are instances where the translation and attestation costs run above the value of the claim," he added. 

"The photocopying of papers for submission can run to hundreds of pages, depending on the number of parties involved."

Lawyers' fees are also not cheap. Their charges vary according to their experience and expertise and in recovery cases the normal lawyer's fee is 10 per cent of the amount claimed.

Ballantine said: "Our firm charges hourly rates starting at Dh1,200 for paralegals to Dh2,300 for senior consultants like myself."

He said foreign firms tended to increase their fees by 40 to 50 per cent as they subcontracted most of the work to local firms.

"Foreign firms are in 99 per cent of cases unnecessary because they are not licensed to appear before the UAE courts. It makes financial sense to directly instruct a local advocates' office to avoid excessive charges."

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...8242009_9d46887f09844fffae8cc986c308c41c.aspx


----------



## raheelm

baba toto said:


> raheelm
> 
> It seems you haven't been to Dubai, like me!!
> 
> I've based my comments on pictures posted on this forum, and on the Nakheel website.
> 
> For example:
> 
> JVC pictures?:
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=139059&page=30
> 
> JVT pictures?:
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=139059&page=32



Baba Toto

I am based in Dubai and have somehow missed reviewing this point before buying in JVS.

As for updates, Lawns 2,3,4,5 some work has been done but Lawns 1 is empty land still.

Can you please pass me your contact details so I can call you. I feel it is good to discuss on call. If you are ok.

Please send me an email with your contact details on [email protected].


----------



## glover

*Banks increase mortgages as property market settles*

_more signs of market bottoming out. in Q2, Dh8.7bn worth of mortgages. So far in Q3 (we are only half way through it), the value of issued mortgages have already surpassed that of Q2, Dh9.5bn._
------------------------------------------

Bradley Hope
August 24. 2009 3:58PM UAE / August 24. 2009 11:58AM GMT
the national

Banks are steadily increasing their mortgage offerings as the property market reaches the bottom of the downturn, analysts say.

There were about Dh8.7bn worth of mortgages given out to buyers in the second quarter of the year, which was about Dh1.4bn more than the first quarter of the year, according to data from the market research company REIDIN.com. Already, the third quarter is shaping be even better, with Dh9.5bn worth of mortgages issued so far, the data show.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090824/BUSINESS/708249980/1005


----------



## Safrica

I have been offered a damac credit note from a agent and according to damac there is no such thing, has anybody ever received one or seen one.


----------



## mary.lina

http://www.tradeshoes9.com


----------



## Hanna

*Residential rents in Dubai fell by up to 30 per cent in August*

Residential rents in Dubai fell by up to 30 per cent in August, a real estate consultancy said yesterday, while it believed the marginal rent increases in certain pockets of the emirate were "unsustainable". 

The maximum rental decline was seen in two-bedroom apartments in Palm Jumeirah, which fell 30 per cent in August. Two-bedroom apartments in International City, Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT) and Jumeirah Beach Residence decreased by 23 per cent, 17 per cent and 16 per cent, respectively. In the one-bedroom category, International City saw the maximum fall of 22 per cent, followed by Palm Jumeirah and JLT, declining 20 per cent and 19 per cent, respectively, Landmark Advisory said in its August 2009 Price Guide.

Four and three-bedroom villas in Mirdiff fell 31 per cent and 26 per cent, respectively. The current market rents for a four-bed villa stand at Dh140,000 per annum in August compared to Dh202,500 in March, while for the latter it is Dh155,000 from Dh115,000.

"Demand for property was particularly strong during June and July due to a significant amount of rental contracts ending around this timeframe. The large amount of rents ending during the same period ultimately creates a temporary supply distortion following a period of particularly strong demand," said Charles Neil, Chief Executive Officer, Landmark Advisory.

He added: "The increasing rents can be attributed to a lack of supply – many landlords have removed inventory from the market to avoid renting out at current market rates, while others may be out of town during the summer period and consequently unavailable. We predict the month of Ramadan will also affect the leasing supply as many landlords are waiting until fourth quarter to reassess the market. "

Less than half of the 22,400 units have been delivered in Dubai by mid-year, Craig Plumb, Head of Research at Jones Lang LaSalle Mena had told Emirates Business. Earlier, JP Morgan estimated Dubai will have an excess of 31,000 units in 2009.

Rents in many areas of Dubai have decreased significantly over the past five months, but despite this, there are "exceptions" to this trend with some unit types in preferred developments performing well. 

Apartments of good quality in Dubai Marina have increased by 11 per cent for one-bedroom units and by six per cent for two-bedroom units, while three and four-bedroom villas in Arabian Ranches and three-bedroom villas on Palm Jumeirah returned to March 2009 rents or have increased marginally. 

"Although there is rising rents for one and two-bedroom apartments in Dubai Marina, the rents for studios and larger three and four-bedrooms apartments have declined. These rental trends are, of course, highly correlated with emerging demand patterns. Preferred areas and unit types will be the first to recover in terms of rents. Tracking these specific units over the past five months indicates that rents in these areas are sustainable. 

"These findings are in line with our third quarter Dubai and Abu Dhabi research report, which showed that one and two-bedroom apartments and three and four-bedroom villas were the most sought after unit types in the leasing market," Neil said. 

According to Landmark research, relocation demand is continuing to drive the leasing market with demand still coming from Abu Dhabi and Sharjah as well as from within Dubai. A continued upgrading trend is also evident with location, quality and size being the key factors for relocation demand.

Most residential areas in Dubai are subject to further fluctuation, especially as new supply comes onto the market in the next 12-24 months, the consultancy said.

"If rents do come down further for these areas then we expect additional relocation demand as long as landlords adapt pricing strategies. Of course, this relocation demand will help to mitigate any further rental declines," said Neil. 

According to Jones Lang LaSalle, rents have declined by 15 per cent in Q2 compared to Q1 and "will fall further" in the third quarter.


----------



## Imre

*Back to the civilisation!*

more freedom in UAE , no more blocking ?

I can see all websites with the du 

:cheers::banana:


----------



## True Blue

> Residential rents in Dubai fell by up to 30 per cent in August, a real estate consultancy said yesterday..................The maximum rental decline was seen in two-bedroom apartments in Palm Jumeirah, which fell 30 per cent in August. Two-bedroom apartments in International City, Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT) and Jumeirah Beach Residence decreased by 23 per cent, 17 per cent and 16 per cent, respectively. In the one-bedroom category, International City saw the maximum fall of 22 per cent, followed by Palm Jumeirah and JLT, declining 20 per cent and 19 per cent, respectively, Landmark Advisory said in its August 2009 Price Guide..........
> ......................Apartments of good quality in Dubai Marina have increased by 11 per cent for one-bedroom units and by six per cent for two-bedroom units,...........


Edited out all the superfluous mumbo jumbokay: 

So the marina is surviving and everywhere else will become a labour camp


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> *Back to the civilisation!*
> 
> more freedom in UAE , no more blocking ?
> 
> I can see all websites with the du
> 
> :cheers::banana:


You will go blind!!!!!!!!!!:runaway:


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> You will go blind!!!!!!!!!!:runaway:


probably this is the reason..

*Yahoo buys Maktoob*

Last Updated: August 25. 2009 1:36PM UAE / August 25. 2009 9:36AM GMT Yahoo has made the most significant push into the Arab world of any major internet company, acquiring Maktoob, the region’s most popular web portal.

The deal is the first large-scale foreign acquisition of a Middle Eastern website.
Both companies declined to reveal the amount Yahoo paid for Maktoob.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090825/BUSINESS/708259994/1138

:lol:


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> You will go blind!!!!!!!!!!:runaway:


you are under boycott , no more beer 

http://www.boycottscotland.com/

:lol::lol:


----------



## High Times

Interesting News.

Can you see this one out there Imre ?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/vi...ower+Beats+Recession&videoCategory=World+News


----------



## Imre

yes


----------



## gerald.d

Du have clearly been having problems all day. Still very slow to some sites, but Flickr is blocked again.


----------



## 234sale

Imre said:


> *Back to the civilisation!*
> 
> more freedom in UAE , no more blocking ?
> 
> I can see all websites with the du
> 
> :cheers::banana:


flickr :banana:


----------



## 234sale

gerald.d said:


> Du have clearly been having problems all day. Still very slow to some sites, but Flickr is blocked again.


:badnews: flickkkrkkkrkrrrrrrr splat


----------



## gerald.d

:lol:


----------



## Imre

*Dubai's services are the world's most expensive*


August 25. 2009 

Dubai is the most expensive city for services in a global survey from UBS investment bank, especially when it comes to restaurant meals and hotel stays.

The average cost of a basket of 27 services in the city, from haircuts to phone charges and dry cleaning, is US$890 (Dh3,268), making it the most expensive city of the 73 surveyed around the world. It was a steep jump from 28th place of 71 cities on the survey just three years ago, with an average cost of $470.

The latest result places it far above the average – , $503 –, and well ahead of expensive cities such as London ($630), New York ($770) and Paris ($770), according to UBS’s Price and Earnings Report 2009.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090825/BUSINESS/708259958/1138


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*A vast fun-park dream stalls in Dubai's downturn*

Walk through the grand arched entrance of Universal Studios' Dubai theme park, and you step into ... wind-swept desert.

No Hollywood thrill rides, no ticket kiosks, no studio backlots. Even the guard house and the construction office sat empty during a recent visit.

The planned park is part of a vision by Dubai officials to turn a patch of sand on the edge of the Mideast city-state into Dubailand — a vast amusement complex twice the size of Walt Disney World studded with theme parks including Universal Studios, Six Flags and Legoland, along with resorts, the world's biggest shopping mall and the first golf course designed by Tiger Woods.

It is now unclear when or if much of it will ever get built. Dubailand has hit the harsh economic realities of the global downturn, much like the rest of Dubai, which once seemed unstoppable in its drive to build the biggest, the tallest, the most extravagant.

"At this point, it's kind of hard to sell," Bobby Sarkar, a real estate analyst at Al Mal Capital in Dubai, said of the Dubailand project. "Obviously it's not feasible currently."

Dubailand was conceived at a time when cash was readily available and the pint-sized emirate was expanding rapidly, building man-made islands, ever-taller skyscrapers and gleaming luxury housing. Now in the world economic crisis, easy credit has disappeared, and Dubai faces crippling debt and a glut of brand-new real estate. Thousands of foreign workers who flocked here seeking higher-paying jobs are pouring out of the city as layoffs mount.

"Was Dubailand a sound idea? In part yes," said David Camp, director at ERA Aecom, whose consulting firm was involved in early plans for the site. "But it got carried away, like most of Dubai."

Dubailand was launched six years ago as part of the emirate's push to more than double its tourism numbers to 15 million visitors by 2015. The hope was that their dollars, euros and riyals would keep the economy chugging ahead despite the emirate's dearth of oil reserves.

The project sprawls over more than 100 square miles (259 square kilometers) of desert — bigger than Orlando, Florida, home of some of America's most famous amusement parks.

A few parts have been built, including a humble outlet mall and a fairground open only during the cool winter months. A sales center on the outskirts of the site touts what Dubailand is supposed to become, promising dinosaurs and spaceships, Spiderman and Shrek. Two live tigers prowl a glass enclosure next to the reception desk.

But much of what is promised appears to be stalled and running well behind schedule. One of the more extravagant ideas — an artificial snow park housed under a glass dome — has quietly disappeared from the project's Web site.

Dubailand Senior Vice President Mohammed al-Habbai said in a brief written statement to The Associated Press that "there is no change to the vision of Dubailand and we can reaffirm that all our projects will be developed and delivered to completion."

*He gave no timeframe, saying only that the project "was designed as a phased development to be built over a number of years."*

Neither Dubailand nor its overall developer Tatweer made officials available for interviews.

The idle appearance of the Universal Studios site suggests it will not to open next year as advertised at the sales center. Universal Studios' parent NBC Universal, a unit of General Electric Co., referred questions to Tatweer, which said only that work was progressing.

Six Flags, the New York-based amusement park chain, said plans for its first Mideast park were "moving forward" but provided no additional information. The company filed for bankruptcy protection in June.

The Tiger Woods-designed golf course will not open as planned this year. Woods recently told The AP the project is delayed and is "out of my hands."

Dubailand said "consistent progress continues" at the course. Three of the 18 holes are completed, which it said confirms its commitment to the project.

Union Properties, a local company building the world's first Formula One theme park at Dubailand, said in March the racing-themed project would be pushed back a year to 2010 because of a lack of funding. Analysts at Mideast bank EFG-Hermes have speculated the project could be dumped altogether.

*The opening of the Legoland park is expected to be pushed back two years from its original 2011 target*, said Sally Ann Wilkinson, a spokeswoman for Merlin Entertainments Group, a British amusement park operator that contracted with Tatweer to build the park.

For the international brands, Dubailand must have looked like a great opportunity.

"Around Dubai, and I'm talking about a radius of more than 3,000 miles, there are no major theme parks. Given that, it is a good idea to have a world-class theme park in the Middle East," said former Dubai resident and amusement park enthusiast Stefan Zwanzger, who blogs about the industry at Thethemeparkguy.com. "I'm not sure it makes sense to build 10 or 11 theme parks at about the same time."

The deals were typically structured as licensing agreements that left the international companies with little financial risk, according to regulatory filings and analysts. Partnering companies in effect got paid while gaining a toehold in a part of the world with a booming population and little competition.

But they also left at least part of their reputations in the hands of Tatweer, a company linked to the emirate's ruler that is now struggling.

Complicating problems for Tatweer is its planned merger with another Dubai developer, Emaar Properties, which declined to comment on Dubailand. The plan calls for publicly traded Emaar to swallow up Tatweer and two sister companies in a deal widely seen as stemming from Dubai's real estate bust.

But industry observers say the slump could also be a blessing, giving Dubai a chance to rethink its priorities.

"What Dubai thought they'd done was create this everlasting growth market. ... The world was booming. Whatever crazy idea you came up with, people said 'yeah I'll buy it,'" said Camp, the consultant.

"The fundamental issue is Dubai had far too grandiose ideas for far too short a time," he said. "It was a bit like a toddler trying to do a 100-meter sprint rather than trying to just walk around the furniture a bit."


----------



## iamici

Anyone use a VPN to avoid the censor ? If so which one you use? PM me. Thanks


----------



## Imre

*Dubai residential rents fall by up to 30% in August *

8/25/2009 

Residential rents in Dubai fell by up to 30 per cent in August, a real estate consultancy said yesterday, while it believed the marginal rent increases in certain pockets of the emirate were "unsustainable". 

The maximum rental decline was seen in two-bedroom apartments in Palm Jumeirah, which fell 30 per cent in August. Two-bedroom apartments in International City, Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT) and Jumeirah Beach Residence decreased by 23 per cent, 17 per cent and 16 per cent, respectively. In the one-bedroom category, International City saw the maximum fall of 22 per cent, followed by Palm Jumeirah and JLT, declining 20 per cent and 19 per cent, respectively, Landmark Advisory said in its August 2009 Price Guide.

Four and three-bedroom villas in Mirdiff fell 31 per cent and 26 per cent, respectively. The current market rents for a four-bed villa stand at Dh140,000 per annum in August compared to Dh202,500 in March, while for the latter it is Dh155,000 from Dh115,000.

"Demand for property was particularly strong during June and July due to a significant amount of rental contracts ending around this timeframe. The large amount of rents ending during the same period ultimately creates a temporary supply distortion following a period of particularly strong demand," said Charles Neil, Chief Executive Officer, Landmark Advisory.

He added: "The increasing rents can be attributed to a lack of supply – many landlords have removed inventory from the market to avoid renting out at current market rates, while others may be out of town during the summer period and consequently unavailable. We predict the month of Ramadan will also affect the leasing supply as many landlords are waiting until fourth quarter to reassess the market. "

Less than half of the 22,400 units have been delivered in Dubai by mid-year, Craig Plumb, Head of Research at Jones Lang LaSalle Mena had told Emirates Business. Earlier, JP Morgan estimated Dubai will have an excess of 31,000 units in 2009.

Rents in many areas of Dubai have decreased significantly over the past five months, but despite this, there are "exceptions" to this trend with some unit types in preferred developments performing well. 

Apartments of good quality in Dubai Marina have increased by 11 per cent for one-bedroom units and by six per cent for two-bedroom units, while three and four-bedroom villas in Arabian Ranches and three-bedroom villas on Palm Jumeirah returned to March 2009 rents or have increased marginally. 

"Although there is rising rents for one and two-bedroom apartments in Dubai Marina, the rents for studios and larger three and four-bedrooms apartments have declined. These rental trends are, of course, highly correlated with emerging demand patterns. Preferred areas and unit types will be the first to recover in terms of rents. Tracking these specific units over the past five months indicates that rents in these areas are sustainable. 

"These findings are in line with our third quarter Dubai and Abu Dhabi research report, which showed that one and two-bedroom apartments and three and four-bedroom villas were the most sought after unit types in the leasing market," Neil said. 

According to Landmark research, relocation demand is continuing to drive the leasing market with demand still coming from Abu Dhabi and Sharjah as well as from within Dubai. A continued upgrading trend is also evident with location, quality and size being the key factors for relocation demand.

Most residential areas in Dubai are subject to further fluctuation, especially as new supply comes onto the market in the next 12-24 months, the consultancy said.

"If rents do come down further for these areas then we expect additional relocation demand as long as landlords adapt pricing strategies. Of course, this relocation demand will help to mitigate any further rental declines," said Neil. 

According to Jones Lang LaSalle, rents have declined by 15 per cent in Q2 compared to Q1 and "will fall further" in the third quarter.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...8252009_eb98d7fd681342cd91a7d02303e77f64.aspx


----------



## TerryPop

*nakheel*

Keep reading about how F*cked Nakheel is etc.

But deep down got a feeling that there is no way they could let it fail.

Its a continuous string of comments on massive debts that it can;t pay etc- and many investors being basically scammed to pay for its (interim) survival....

*Tactics such as*, 
exorbitant service charges- without provision of facilities, 

initiating mortgage installation payments to themselves without handing over properties, 

failure to rtn down payments on cancelled (they say delayed) projects- 

the list goes on & on.

Can Nakheel actually fail is my question? and if so, what are the real consequences of this happening?


----------



## True Blue

^^^^@Imre, Seen that before, sleepyhead!



Imre said:


> you are under boycott , no more beer
> 
> http://www.boycottscotland.com/
> 
> :lol::lol:


"Abdel Baset al-Megrahi has been set free by Scotland"

20 years of Scottish weather, being made to stand outside in the rain every day in a Greenock Prison yard. He wished we had the death sentence but eventually God granted him his wish.

Now he can go back to his family and tell them there are people in the world much worse off than Libians


----------



## True Blue

TerryPop said:


> Keep reading about how F*cked Nakheel is etc.
> 
> But deep down got a feeling that there is no way they could let it fail.
> 
> Its a continuous string of comments on massive debts that it can;t pay etc- and many investors being basically scammed to pay for its (interim) survival....
> 
> *Tactics such as*,
> exorbitant service charges- without provision of facilities,
> 
> initiating mortgage installation payments to themselves without handing over properties,
> 
> failure to rtn down payments on cancelled (they say delayed) projects-
> 
> the list goes on & on.
> 
> Can Nakheel actually fail is my question? and if so, what are the real consequences of this happening?


Declaring Nakheel insolvent allows the government to write off all the losses and let the investors/contractors/creditors take the hit. They then set up a new company or transfer to an existing alternative.

Must be very tempting.


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> Declaring Nakheel insolvent allows the government to write off all the losses and let the investors/contractors/creditors take the hit. They then set up a new company or transfer to an existing alternative.
> 
> Must be very tempting.


Anything is possible these days.......... I reckon this would definitely be the end of Dubai if this happens.


----------



## dirtyharry1

The sad thing is that they get along with paying only 10% of debts or not paying at all. Nobody harms these gangsters. Hopefullly there will be not one company left that carries out work for them unless they pay cash upfront...


----------



## sadi.

Is there any, I mean any Goddamn way to stand against these developers in Dubai? Another question is if Dubai can afford to keep protecting developers while running the risk of investors shunning Dubai altogether?


----------



## FARIBA

yes i got the same pics let's hope they don't stop after all they are behind only by 2 years lol......


----------



## mrobbie

I'm thinking of offering Nakheel 10% of the annual service charge when the invoice arrives and see how that goes...


----------



## baba toto

baba toto said:


> Does anyone know if Minas is a DEC company??? Have they moved on site yet???


Does anyone know the reason behind the delay? Is it unreasonable for an investor to ask to be kept updated on time frames, other than "we are waiting for the subcontractor to turn up in August? Is DEC talking to their subcontractor? If they are then can't they share this information with us!!!! :bash:


----------



## Hanna

*Nakheel Dubai - Discovery Garden residents take their row to Dubai Rulers Court*

Wednesday, August 26, 2009
Nakheel Dubai - Discovery Garden residents take their row to Dubai Rulers Court 

source Arabian Business


Angry residents of Dubai’s Discovery Gardens are set to take their row to the Ruler’s Court this week in a bid to force developer Nakheel into slashing “exorbitant” service charge fees.

More than 90 tenants and homeowners have signed a petition, set to be presented to the Ruler’s Court and Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) later this week, which asks the government to force Nakheel back to the negotiating table to review the charges, which cover building maintenance, community and cooling fees.

Residents are due to pay the first installment of next year’s fees on October 1.

“We want the government to freeze our payments to Nakheel and to force Nakheel to justify its charges in light of the substantial drop in costs we’ve seen since last year,” said Michael Aldendorff, the head of an unofficial resident’s association.
“We will not accept the current fees when Nakheel has failed to deliver on common areas and we have substandard building maintenance. As the petition says, we flatly refuse to pay.”


According to paperwork issued by Nakheel to residents, RERA has approved maximum service fees of AED10.35 per sq ft in building maintenance, AED2.8 per sq ft in community charges, and AED8.7 per sq ft in cooling charges: a total of AED21.85 per sq ft.

Residents in 1,000sq ft flats would then pay annual service fees of AED21,850 ($5,948).

According to Aldendorff, tenants in Dubai Marina typically pay about AED15 per sq ft in service charges, while those in The Greens pay between AED13-15.

“You can understand our concerns and skepticism that these [Discovery Gardens] rates are not in line with the market and are excessive,” he said.

In June, following protests by residents, Nakheel said it would reduce the service charge for Discovery Gardens by AED5, down from between AED18-19 per sq ft the previous year exclusive of cooling, and would backdate the new rate to January 1, 2009.

A spokesperson for Nakheel said: “We continuously review service charges to ensure that owners receive the best service for their fees. Any savings which can be made are then passed on to the owners. All accounts are independently audited to ensure accuracy and transparency for homeowners.”

Service charges for 2010 have not yet been finalised, the spokesperson added.

However, Aldendorff argued that the state-owned developer has failed to deliver communal pools and cycling or jogging trails.

All three are still advertised as forming part of the Discovery Gardens development but, a year after handover, have not materialised.

“We are still paying for these facilities, but they haven’t appeared so how are these charges justified?” he said. “This money is being diverted elsewhere by Nakheel.”

Discovery Gardens’ residents are now hoping the Ruler’s Court will intervene in their favour.


----------



## i love dubai

I am trying to sell an apartment. I have contacted many real estate agents, some don't respond to my emails and the one who respond don't even care to get information. If anyone knows a good real estate agents please PM me their email.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

DUBAI, Aug 26 (Reuters) - Dubai state-owned property developer Nakheel has sold the last of its stake in Australian developer Mirvac Group (MGR.AX) for A$200 million dollars ($167.6 million), the Australian stock exchange said on Wednesday.
Deutsche Securities Australia bought Nakheel's 172 million shares in Mirvac at A$1.16 a share, it said in a regulatory filing.

Nakheel, which faces massive debt repayment at year-end, told Reuters last year that it had planned to raise its 12.5 percent stake in Mirvac to just under 20 percent.

The Weekend Australian on Saturday cited Mirvac's chief executive as saying Nakheel had sold its stake in Mirvac. [ID:nLM48083]

The subsidiary of state-owned conglomerate Dubai World [DBWLD.UL], has $3.5 billion worth of Islamic bonds maturing on Dec. 14 and little light has been shed on the government's plans for them.

In June, Mirvac Group moved to raise A$1.1 billion in equity, announced major asset writedowns and cut its earnings guidance as the real estate sector was hit by major refinancing problems.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai Dream Defies Logic: Expats Still Want to Live & Work in Dubai*

...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai Dream Defies Logic: Expats Still Want to Live & Work in Dubai*

So how come people still want to move to live and work in Dubai? 

Well, in part people are still lulled and lured by the tax-free lifestyle – and it exists and can be fantastic. Wages, when you get a professional posting in Dubai, are impressive and made more so by the fact that they are paid without the deduction of taxation. The shopping, dining and entertainment options and alternatives in Dubai are excellent, therefore you have a lot to spend your money and time on. The lifestyle can be great – you can have staff working for you, you can have your children privately educated, you can go to your private, members only beach club every day – you can even buy and consume alcohol, go to a different party or expat event every night and have a good time. However, you have to work harder than ever to find a job, you have to be prepared that many companies’ positions in Dubai are unstable and that you could therefore be left without a contract, and that if you lose your employment contract you have to leave Dubai within a month. You have to pay for your rent up to a year in advance and if you lose your job and have to leave you may well not get that back. If you have made a life for yourself in Dubai, you have a car, a home, furniture and even pets for example, 30 days is not long to find a new life to ship your family and possessions to or to sell or off load your property and your assets. 

So, is Dubai worth the risk? Is Dubai worth turning a blind eye to the exploitation and the double standards? Is Dubai a prospect worth betting on? 

Some people think so – and on closer scrutiny, most people believe that Dubai will rebound…that what has happened has been a fairly positive thing to slow excessive growth down to a more sustainable and realistic level. And on this point we have to agree. Dubai will survive and thrive again in time – at least on a fiscal level. So prospects will begin to reappear, the lifestyle will become more appealing as job security returns to the market, and building projects will slowly start up again so the workers will have something to do all day other than live in hell. 

But will Dubai learn from this, will it improve in terms of social, moral and equality standards? Of that we are doubtful. So, if you can live with the reality of the emirate, the way poorer people are treated and how you too will be treated if you break the sometimes arcane and draconian laws or if you lose your job, then go for it.

http://www.shelteroffshore.com/inde...fies-logic-expats-want-live-work-dubai-10572/


----------



## iownyou

dubai is a great place to live and do business.
is safe and clean without much crime


----------



## iownyou

i would like to take some time and thank everyone who has provided great information for all of us to benifit


----------



## True Blue

Dubai Steve,

Keep your eyes open for this report out soon;

Real estate agents struggle to find stocks of ready apartments for sale to meet the demands of avid buyers. Many owners have noticed prices on the increase and are holding off until the prices return to the levels they were at in 2008.

A distressed agent reported that there are no sellers in the market now that confidence has returned. "People want to hold on to their piece of Dubai and are not letting go unless the price is right. We have even reduced our agency fees to try and attract what little business there is out there". 

-----------------OR-------------------​
Demand for properties in the marina are at an all time high following the collapse of Palm developer Nakheel. "No one wants a property on The Palm since Nakheel's demise," reported one agent. Confidence has gone on anything that Nakheel touched with all warranties now gone. Contractors who worked on the developments stated that they would not be returning to rectify works which they were never paid for, that would just be stupid.

^^Can you imagine


----------



## Mistermark

True Blue said:


> Declaring Nakheel insolvent allows the government to write off all the losses and let the investors/contractors/creditors take the hit. They then set up a new company or transfer to an existing alternative.
> 
> Must be very tempting.


If this happened, I reckon every developer in Dubai would have to pay upfront for everything from that point onward. I don't think the Dubai government, or UAE's, could let Nakheel fail, for this reason.


----------



## agod

iamici said:


> Anyone use a VPN to avoid the censor ? If so which one you use? PM me. Thanks



I will.

Al


----------



## Wannaberich

True Blue said:


> Dubai Steve,
> 
> Keep your eyes open for this report out soon;
> 
> Real estate agents struggle to find stocks of ready apartments for sale to meet the demands of avid buyers. Many owners have noticed prices on the increase and are holding off until the prices return to the levels they were at in 2008.
> 
> A distressed agent reported that there are no sellers in the market now that confidence has returned. "People want to hold on to their piece of Dubai and are not letting go unless the price is right. We have even reduced our agency fees to try and attract what little business there is out there".
> 
> :


Def a possibility.


----------



## TerryPop

iownyou said:


> i would like to take some time and thank everyone who has provided great information for all of us to benifit


FOYFH


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Potential investors in the housing market in Dubai have been warned by a property commentator that there is a lot of "red tape" involved in getting a mortgage in the city.

Nick Marr, chief executive officer of Homesgofast.com, noted that it was a tough time to be "upbeat" about the industry since the mortgage application process is more restrictive in the region, particularly to non-residents.

He commented mortgages are only available on a limited number of properties, since the property system in Dubai involves developers applying for mortgage options on the residences they build.

"There is a lot of red tape involved in developers assigning mortgages to their products, so fewer developers are starting the process," he said.

Mr Marr explained that mortgages are not available on all developments and interest rates for non-residents are often less competitive as well.

*However, the Dubai Land Department reported this month that mortgage lending for July was higher than the previous three months' totals put together.*

http://www.moneynews.co.uk/7195/mortgage-market-in-dubai-is-restrictive-/


----------



## FARIBA

don't get me wrong rob ofcours i'm glad they have started to built but i'm definetly not happy to see my money get stuck for more than two years

up to 6 to 8 months delay i would understand with what's going on in dubai but not more that that.but when it comes to collecting money from investors they won't have any delay but i'm glad you are o.k with all of that.

it


----------



## 234sale

Only 30% of Business Bay will be completed by 2012

20% is developments on hold

50% is vacant land

FYI


----------



## TerryPop

:lol:


mrobbie said:


> I'm thinking of offering Nakheel 10% of the annual service charge when the invoice arrives and see how that goes...


:lol:


made me laugh!


----------



## TerryPop

TerryPop said:


> :lol:
> :lol:
> 
> 
> made me laugh!


Dear Nakheel,

Having now fully measured my apartment please find the following bill (now significantly overdue) attached...

Amongst other owner services we will be providing to you at Nakheel, these fees allow us (the unit owners) to do the important daily testing of your elevators in the apartment block, and provide the daily tho' brief English lesson to your Concierge.

While we understand these unforeseen service fees for Al Magada minDet Tower II, will throw you into further financial dissarray, please understand that we care, to put it simply "we care as much as you do".

The fee may seem higher then you were expecting, at 287 dhms per square foot..... but within a decade we will ensure all services are available to you and your Nakheel staff...


----------



## TerryPop

TerryPop said:


> Dear Nakheel,
> 
> Having now fully measured my apartment please find the following bill (now significantly overdue) attached...
> 
> Amongst other owner services we will be providing to you at Nakheel, these fees allow us (the unit owners) to do the important daily testing of your elevators in the apartment block, and provide the daily tho' brief English lesson to your Concierge.
> 
> While we understand these unforeseen service fees for Al Magada minDet Tower II, will throw you into further financial dissarray, please understand that we care, to put it simply "we care as much as you do".
> 
> The fee may seem higher then you were expecting, at 287 dhms per square foot..... but within a decade we will ensure all services are available to you and your Nakheel staff...



Update:

Transparency is our number one priority for you and all your Nakheel staff.

A breakdown of the above charges will be provided at some point in the future, but rest assured my brother has audited the accounts for the fees we are requesting and my sister in Rera has approved them for your benefit & safety.


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> Only 30% of Business Bay will be completed by 2012


Is that a bad thing?Would a 100% completed BB by 2012 be too many offices for Dubai to fill so soon?
Are the vacant plots unsold?


----------



## baba toto

Rob Timpie said:


> My god, you are negative...
> Look at the bright site, at least Memon is building the towers.
> All of Dubai is 2 years behind...


Looks like you guys are "end users" i.e. looking to live in the property rather than investors, who would be getting cold sweat for not being able to sell on their investments and being the last fool in the crazy boom & bust cycle!!!


----------



## amplesou

baba toto said:


> Looks like you guys are "end users" i.e. looking to live in the property rather than investors, who would be getting cold sweat for not being able to sell on their investments and being the last fool in the crazy boom & bust cycle!!!


I and my family just want an apartment in dubai sports city for holidaying in !
no more than that !
I am not planning on selling maybe never !
A caravan holiday home in northern england is a fool ,not an apartment owner in dsc ?


----------



## baba toto

amplesou said:


> I and my family just want an apartment in dubai sports city for holidaying in !
> no more than that !
> I am not planning on selling maybe never !
> A caravan holiday home in northern england is a fool ,not an apartment owner in dsc ?


Precisely! I hope other buyers in DSC are your type and hold on to their property on completion, as lower supply may provide better prices for those who do sell??....


----------



## 234sale

Vacant due to no project launched....

What I would do is moved The Lotus to the Dancing towers plot, no need for the UN land to be built on..


----------



## Imre

*Dubai Unlikely to Restructure Nakheel Bond*

(Bloomberg)

28 August 2009 DUBAI — Dubai will choose to repay a government-guaranteed $3.52 billion bond sold by state-owned real-estate developer Nakheel PJSC rather than change its terms, according to Ashmore Investment Management Ltd.

Blackrock Global Funds and Ashmore are the two largest holders of the Nakheel issue, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Ashmore Investment Management owns 1.09 per cent of the bond, the data show. Ashmore, which started its first fund in 1992, invests in currencies, debt and special situations.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/darticl...ugust/business_August581.xml&section=business


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*House price rise hits 5-year high*

UK house prices on the rise - may help Dubai later...


House prices in England and Wales rose by 1.7% in July compared with June - the biggest monthly leap in value since July 2004, the Land Registry said.

Every region recorded a monthly rise in prices, with the average home valued at £155,885, the analysis found. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8226416.stm


----------



## 234sale

Average wage uk 26824 per year
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285

Average House Price
£155,885

Almost 6X Salary multiple, hno:

This is supposed to be the bottom ?


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> Average wage uk 26824 per year
> http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285
> 
> Average House Price
> £155,885
> 
> Almost 6X Salary multiple, hno:
> 
> This is supposed to be the bottom ?


And the same statistic for Dubai is? 

With continued under-investment in new housing stock in the UK, a growing population, people marrying later, splitting up earlier, etc etc, I can't really see much of a reason for that statistic to drop in the longer time.

In the shorter term, I'd expect house prices in the UK not to truly crash until interest rates shoot through the roof in 18-24 months time.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

234sale said:


> Average wage uk 26824 per year
> http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285
> 
> Average House Price
> £155,885
> 
> Almost 6X Salary multiple, hno:
> 
> This is supposed to be the bottom ?


First time buyers do not buy the average price house, more likely a cheaper one.

For others, typically:

£156,000 - 25% deposit = £117,000 => 4.3 x salary.

or

£117,000 => 2 x joint buyers paying only 2.15 x salary each


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> Average wage uk 26824 per year
> http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285
> 
> Average House Price
> £155,885
> 
> Almost 6X Salary multiple, hno:
> 
> This is supposed to be the bottom ?


^^ Missleading post if i may say so.

£155,885 x 75% LTV = £116,913 (25% deposit = £38,972)

Just over 4X Salary multiple (this has been accepted borrowing levels for decades now), we are returning to fundamental borrowing practices with additional help schemes (private and Public).

Affordability alone is not an accurate measure for supply and demand, necessity along with other variables will give you a fairly accurate guide to overall market capacity.

Some more UK stats for you;

61 million population and growing
25 million houses
Net inward migration
Nation of homeowners
Private and public sector landlords
Proper cups of tea 

Some history for you. http://www.britsandmortar.com/UK-house-price-history

Your prediction of a 10 year UK housing slump was/is way out. 

You obviously dont want to admit it (for whatever reason). I know you love Dubai (as I do), but the supply/demand ratios simply dont stack up. With the current migration/visa policy that is in place, parts of Dubai are going to be empty for a very long time I'm afraid. 

The answer is to build less, invite solvent, respectable people to the party (with caveats). The (caveat bit) is a whole new sector waiting to be developed/exploited.


----------



## High Times

gerald.d said:


> In the shorter term, I'd expect house prices in the UK not to truly crash until interest rates shoot through the roof in 18-24 months time.


Interesting,

What makes you think interest rates will shoot through the roof ?

What does that mean in terms of a number % ?


----------



## gerald.d

High Times said:


> ^^ Missleading post if i may say so.
> 
> £155,885 x 75% LTV = £116,913 (25% deposit = £38,972)


Rest of your post makes perfect sense.

What I don't understand though is where you think - since we're dealing in the world of averages here - the earner of the average wage is going to find close to £40k from to put down as a deposit on his/her average house?


----------



## gerald.d

High Times said:


> Interesting,
> 
> What makes you think interest rates will shoot through the roof ?
> 
> What does that mean in terms of a number % ?


I simply cannot see how these kind of interest rates are sustainable. I'm sitting on a close to 400k mortgage in the UK that is costing me about 300 quid a month, whilst getting 4 times that in rent.

It's utterly bonkers.

At some point, we're all going to have to pay for this. And when that time comes - to my mind within a couple of years or so, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see interest rates close to double figures.


----------



## Mistermark

gerald.d said:


> I simply cannot see how these kind of interest rates are sustainable. I'm sitting on a close to 400k mortgage in the UK that is costing me about 300 quid a month, whilst getting 4 times that in rent.
> 
> It's utterly bonkers.
> 
> At some point, we're all going to have to pay for this. And when that time comes - to my mind within a couple of years or so, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see interest rates close to double figures.


I guess the big unknown is whether the UK and US governments will (i) be too slow in taking interest rates back up towards the long-run average and reversing quantitative easing, resulting in unintended inflation and (ii) be tempted deliberately to inflate their way out of their debts.

If the answer to the above questions is yes, then in time, we could well see interest rates rising to above the long-run average. However this doesn't necessarily mean that house prices will crash - on the contrary, an inflationary regime by definition means that the price of assets, including houses, goes up.


----------



## gerald.d

Mistermark said:


> I guess the big unknown is whether the UK and US governments will (i) be too slow in taking interest rates back up towards the long-run average and reversing quantitative easing, resulting in unintended inflation and (ii) be tempted deliberately to inflate their way out of their debts.
> 
> If the answer to the above questions is yes, then in time, we could well see interest rates rising to above the long-run average. However this doesn't necessarily mean that house prices will crash - on the contrary, an inflationary regime by definition means that the price of assets, including houses, goes up.


My belief (and it is just a belief, I haven't done any in depth research, and I'm not pretending I can back this up with any tangible statistics), is that the only thing keeping the UK housing market alive at the moment is the affordability of mortgage debt.

Once that debt becomes unaffordable - and I believe it will, keys will be thrown back, and the entire market will crash.


----------



## High Times

gerald.d said:


> Rest of your post makes perfect sense.
> 
> What I don't understand though is where you think - since we're dealing in the world of averages here - the earner of the average wage is going to find close to £40k from to put down as a deposit on his/her average house?


The New house builder (wimpy, bovis et al) part shared ownership in a different suit
The Lending house (Bank Building Soc) part shared ownership in a different suit
Multiple buyer purchases (2 couples buying 1 house = £10k deposit each)
Mum and Dad releasing equity from their unencumbered property (gifting their legacy pre-death, has very advantagous IHT benefits)
More government assistance schemes in planning as we speak (basicaly assisatance offset schemes)





gerald.d said:


> I simply cannot see how these kind of interest rates are sustainable. I'm sitting on a close to 400k mortgage in the UK that is costing me about 300 quid a month, whilst getting 4 times that in rent.
> 
> It's utterly bonkers.
> 
> At some point, we're all going to have to pay for this. And when that time comes - to my mind within a couple of years or so, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see interest rates close to double figures.


Interest rate levels are relative in terms of profitability to the issuer of the Bond/Loan.

If interest rates rise so will inflation which will increase your wages and your asset (house), this in turn reduces the real value of your debt. This is when another bubble is inflated.

I have already said that this will happen in this thread. a few months ago. 

I dont understand how you think this will have a negative effect on the UK housing market. Governments have always inflated their way out of debt. It's called capatalism.



gerald.d said:


> My belief (and it is just a belief, I haven't done any in depth research, and I'm not pretending I can back this up with any tangible statistics), is that the only thing keeping the UK housing market alive at the moment is the affordability of mortgage debt.
> 
> Once that debt becomes unaffordable - and I believe it will, keys will be thrown back, and the entire market will crash.


Saw it in 1989 - 1991 when we had 15% intererst rates in the UK. Didnt last long and house prices have more than doubled in value since then. 

This argument for UK housing crash is a non starter I'm afraid Gerald. Still we are all entitled to our views. :cheers:


----------



## smussuw

so bottom line High Times, are we going to see the Springs at less than 800k or not?


----------



## True Blue

Just an opinion.

UK house prices have been influenced by high inflation and interest rates since 1970. These inflation and bank base rates of the 70's and 80's are very unlikely to return. Therefore historical data on house price increases are less likely to be an indicator of future growth.

Scottish house price trend is a better indicator of historical growth as it has not been infuenced by the extremes of the market boom and bust, there is no negative equity in Scotland just stagnation. A figure quoted to me by a very experienced financial adviser is 7.5%pa growth for Scotland based on historical data. This has been reduced to 5% for future years due to lower base rates and inflation figures.

Everyone expects interest rates to rise again to as much as 5% in around 2 years. No one expects interest to reach the 15% of the 80's era.


----------



## gerald.d

High Times said:


> If interest rates rise so will inflation which will increase your wages and your asset (house), this in turn reduces the real value of your debt. This is when another bubble is inflated.


These things don't happen simultaneously though. Wages lag inflation and interest rate rises by a considerable period of time, house prices lag even further behind.

I've already clearly stated that in the long term (10-30 years), I believe that the fundamentals of supply, demand, (and regulatory/government incompetence) will only serve to drive up the price of housing stock in the UK.

Interest rates will shoot through the proverbial roof in the medium term (unless the UK enters a Japan style deflationary period), and that will cause huge medium term problems for the UK housing market.

House prices may well have more than doubled over the last 20 years. So what?

You need to read what I've written, rather than look for an excuse for an argument just for the sake of it.

And I won't even bother responding to the 2*10=40 statement.


----------



## bizzybonita

let the prices (in New Dubai Area) take a short stabilize trip with new metro...


----------



## gerald.d

True Blue said:


> These inflation and bank base rates of the 70's and 80's are very unlikely to return.


On what basis do you make that statement?


> Everyone expects interest rates to rise again to as much as 5% in around 2 years. No one expects interest to reach the 15% of the 80's era.


Wherein we hit the age old problems when dealing with percentages. 

Nearly everyone ignores the fact that they are relative, and not absolute, measures.

From '89 to '92 the UK base rate went from 8% to 14% and back to 8% again. Few remember that it had been at 14% just a four years previously in 1985.

The cost of servicing debt over that period didn't even move by a factor of two.

A rise from the current base rate of 0.5% to 5% would result in a five to ten fold increase in the cost of servicing the debt for people whose interest rates are closely tied to the BoE base rate.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

bizzybonita said:


> let the prices (in New Dubai Area) take a short stabilize trip with new metro...


^^ OK we will let them


----------



## High Times

gerald.d said:


> These things don't happen simultaneously though. Wages lag inflation and interest rate rises by a considerable period of time, house prices lag even further behind.
> 
> I've already clearly stated that in the long term (10-30 years), I believe that the fundamentals of supply, demand, (and regulatory/government incompetence) will only serve to drive up the price of housing stock in the UK.
> 
> Interest rates will shoot through the proverbial roof in the medium term (unless the UK enters a Japan style deflationary period), and that will cause huge medium term problems for the UK housing market.
> 
> House prices may well have more than doubled over the last 20 years. So what?


They will double again in the next 10-15 years due to the simple economics of supply/demand and market capacity. Read what youv'e just said when your sober and you will see that you have contradicted your own argument.





gerald.d said:


> You need to read what I've written, rather than look for an excuse for an argument just for the sake of it.
> 
> And I won't even bother responding to the 2*10=40 statement.


What this statement ?



High Times said:


> The New house builder (wimpy, bovis et al) part shared ownership in a different suit
> The Lending house (Bank Building Soc) part shared ownership in a different suit
> *Multiple buyer purchases (2 couples buying 1 house = £10k deposit each)*
> Mum and Dad releasing equity from their unencumbered property (gifting their legacy pre-death, has very advantagous IHT benefits)
> More government assistance schemes in planning as we speak (basicaly assisatance offset schemes)


Who needs to read whats been written, rather than look for an excuse for an argument ?

Last time I used my abacus a couple = 2, so 2 couples = 4, so 4 x £10k = £40k.

Obviously a product of university education, Mum and Dad must be really proud of you.

Good night. :cheers:


----------



## High Times

smussuw said:


> so bottom line High Times, are we going to see the Springs at less than 800k or not?


Sorry smussuw, I dont really know much about the Springs and prices I'm afraid. It's not an area I'm that interested in.


----------



## montranieri

Let's talk about dubai guys


----------



## gerald.d

High Times said:


> They will double again in the next 10-15 years due to the simple economics of supply/demand and market capacity. Read what youv'e just said when your sober and you will see that you have contradicted your own argument.


Again, you're ignoring what's been written and just arguing for the sake of it.

I've stated that I expect prices to rise over that kind of timeframe. Quite how that view contradicts one stating an expectation that house prices will fall when interest rates start to rise in an 18-24 month timeframe is beyond me.


> What this statement ?


Yes. The word "each" qualifying the singular noun "couple". That's how the English language works.

Two couples. 10k each couple. 20k.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Marina apartments defy Dubai rental slide*










When the property boom was halted in its tracks late last summer, the sprawling tower blocks in Dubai Marina became the target of people looking to take advantage of the substantial drop in rents.

But while rents in the rest of the city continue to fall, the Marina has shown signs of recovery, triggered by its popularity among those looking to upgrade where they live.

Rents in the Marina area, on the outskirts of new Dubai on the road to Abu Dhabi, rose as much as 11 per cent over the past five months, while leasing rates in the rest of the city plummeted by up to a third, according to a study by the property consultancy Landmark Advisory.

For example, the average rent for a two-bedroom flat in Palm Jumeirah has fallen by a third to Dh140,000 (US$38,110) a year, the study said. In International City, similar flats were available for Dh60,000, a fall of 23 per cent over the period.

At the Marina, however, rents increased by an average of 11 per cent for one-bedroom apartments and six per cent for two-bedroom units.

In March the average rent for a one-bedroom flat in the Marina was Dh87,500. Now people would be charged Dh97,500 on average, while two-bedroomed flats that previously rented for Dh117,500 now cost Dh125,000.










Among the reasons given by Landmark and other estate agents is the fact that construction in the Marina area is almost complete, and some landlords have chosen to take their homes off the market to limit supply and drive up rents later in the year.

Asad Sawani, a financial analyst at Landmark Advisory, a division of Landmark Properties, said the Marina was a popular choice because of the quality of apartments, the range of shops and restaurants and the fact that much of the construction work had been completed.

“It’s location. The fact that it is close to Abu Dhabi and that they can get more for their money and the commute is not too bad,” he said. “Dubai Marina is more complete than other areas and it has high quality apartments. Some other areas are still under construction.”

The Marina has retained its popularity despite the increased expense. But if prices continue to climb, the area could lose its appeal, house hunters warned.

“I am surprised that prices are going up in the Marina. I think there are still bargains out there but they might just be harder to find,” said Keyhaneh Kavoosi, 35, from Germany, who has worked in Dubai for the last two years while living in Sharjah.

“If prices get too high I will have to look somewhere else – maybe Dubai Festival City or Business Bay.”

Ms Kavoosi has been looking for a one-bedroom flat in the Marina for the past two months.

“Sharjah is too crowded and the Marina is a much nicer place to live. There are shops and restaurants. It is closer to where I work,” she said.

Heloisa Ruiz, 17, from Brazil, moved into a two-bedroom flat in the Marina with her mother a month ago. They had been sharing an apartment with friends and moved into a place of their own to take advantage of tumbling rental rates earlier in the year.

“I agree that prices here aren’t falling now like around the rest of the city,” she said. “The Marina seems to be the only place where the prices are staying the same.”

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090827/NATIONAL/708269854/1042


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Weird thing about that chart is that it seems to show JLT 1 beds being more expensive than Marina 1 beds in March '09, and 2 beds about the same price.

Having extensively researched the market over the first 3 months of the year prior to moving into a 2 bed in JLT, I find that extremely hard to accept.

The real bargains right now seem to be in the DBD area. I was stunned to see a 2 bed in Al Tajer advertised for 150k. I guess all the extra stock coming into the market in that general area is helping to keep prices down.


----------



## enduser

Guys whilst on the subject of rents. Can anyone guide me on how much I should rent out my 1 bed in Marina Terrace 1100 sqft with full marina view. 

Id like 1 cheque and the tennant wants to renew. So how much ?


----------



## Imre

gerald.d said:


> ^^ Weird thing about that chart is that it seems to show JLT 1 beds being more expensive than Marina 1 beds in March '09, and 2 beds about the same price.


JLT got some really bad quality towers in the last few months , small 1 bed (50K/year) and small 2 beds (60-80K/year) thats why the cheaper prices, even I saw 3 bedroom for 90K/year 

Marina had nothing new since the Point thats why it has better average.

Just remember when was the handover of the DEC Towers, average prices were cheaper than in the JLT.

JLT will have many handover in the next months like Armada Towers,New Dubai Gate,Goldcrest Executive , Jumeirah Bay,Lake Shore,V3 etc.. average rents remain lower for a long.


----------



## True Blue

enduser said:


> Guys whilst on the subject of rents. Can anyone guide me on how much I should rent out my 1 bed in Marina Terrace 1100 sqft with full marina view.
> 
> Id like 1 cheque and the tennant wants to renew. So how much ?


Try for 110k for 1 cheque and get ready to negotiate from there.


----------



## True Blue

gerald.d said:


> *On what basis do you make that statement?*
> 
> Wherein we hit the age old problems when dealing with percentages.
> 
> Nearly everyone ignores the fact that they are relative, and not absolute, measures.
> 
> From '89 to '92 the UK base rate went from 8% to 14% and back to 8% again. Few remember that it had been at 14% just a four years previously in 1985.
> 
> The cost of servicing debt over that period didn't even move by a factor of two.
> 
> *A rise from the current base rate of 0.5% to 5% would result in a five to ten fold increase in the cost of servicing the debt for people whose interest rates are closely tied to the BoE base rate*.


1. Very first line of my post holds the answer. 

2. I have to disagree with your second point highlighted. The cost of servicing debt is generally through a repayment mortgage which includes capital therefore the cost will not be tenfold. Secondly very few people have mortgages that take account of the 0.5% base rate as most new mortgages in the last 5 years were fixed rate or had a floor of 3%. HBOS svr is currently BOE+3%.

All talk about future rates is pure conjecture as no one, *including you*, has the power to predict future interest rates with certainty. The ones who thought they could all worked for Leyman Bros apparently.


----------



## enduser

True Blue said:


> Try for 110k for 1 cheque and get ready to negotiate from there.


I negotiated 90k 1cheque a few months back for renewal 1st october. is this a fair rent or have i been fleeced ?


----------



## V Kapoor

My Studio in International City in CBD falls due for renewal and the tenant has offered only 30K (one Chq).....whereas on the current year let I realized 60K (2 chqs ) for the same studio. Now thats a 50% drop. But then 60K in Nov 2008 was unusually high, but market rents were like that then (this is perhaps JUST before the thing came crumbling down). Silver lining is that 30K is still 10%+ return on my original investment.

My studio in Marina is currently at 82K and falls due for renewal in December....can't visualise how much that will come down by then??


----------



## Imre

V Kapoor said:


> My studio in Marina is currently at 82K and falls due for renewal in December....can't visualise how much that will come down by then??


cheapest studio in the marina around 40-45K now, if the market getting better by December maybe you will have 50-55K. 

I think the worst option is 40K which is still 10%+ rental income for you


----------



## Imre

enduser said:


> I negotiated 90k 1cheque a few months back for renewal 1st october. is this a fair rent or have i been fleeced ?


90K is good price now


----------



## jeetha

What ever happened to the 5% rule for 3 years :bash: which was all over the papers and was a topic here also around December 2007. 

So if rents did a U-turn and started sprinting upwards, does the 5% rule still apply?


----------



## smussuw

^^ The percentage of the annual rent is decided every year by a decree from the ruler depending on the market situation.


----------



## agod

Yes he did, it gave him indigestion, and just as they fired, he bent over doubled up in pain and the bullets went over his head................it's a long story.

Goodnight Children.

Uncle al.


----------



## worldsignia

Alan, cheers for your very detailed and informative answer :rofl:





agod said:


> There is a Nuclear blast, and they all die except the Landord, who has four cheques, but he cant cash them because the Agency hasn't paid there one cheque, in yet, so it bounces, and he is put in jail, and charged with murder and causing a nuclear explosion, he wanted to destroy the property, so he can pick up the insurance he took out last year and worth a zillion Dirhams, he pleads with the judge to show lenancy on him, as he lost it all in Dubai, when he was promised so much, he felt let down, the judge said setting a nuclear device in the UAE was against the law, and he should be shot at dawn.
> 
> As he was led out to the yard at the back of the Pizza Express in downtown Deira, he was to be granted a last request, can I have a smoke please, NO, said Brigadier Colonel Mohamed Al husseine, al Mont hasam, director and cheif of firing squads for the UAE and rifle brigade.
> "It's not allowed here" okay said the convicted murderer, what about a Mars Bar then.
> 
> Alan


----------



## gerald.d

Imre said:


> Agency got the money and run away, landlord got nothing, no money ,no property for a year ?


Slightly cleverer than that.

Check from tenant cashed. 1st check to landlord was cashed (paid for with money from tenant check), 2nd check to landlord bounced. So they had 3 months to run the scam before anyone discovered what was going on.

/edit
Oops. Sorry chaps. Just seen all the subsequent posts. Went to bed a little early last night. Nice one though Alan 



dubaiprojects said:


> Was it an agency or an individual? No agency would run and disappear for mere 3 checks.
> 
> Cheers


It's "slightly" more than 3 checks - this was done on multiple properties.


----------



## Wannaberich

For all you our there paying HSBC etc 8/9% on your mortgage,HSBC in the UK have just launched a mortgage at 1.99% !
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...126219/HSBC-mortgage-charges-just-1.99pc.html


----------



## True Blue

Wannaberich said:


> For all you our there paying HSBC etc 8/9% on your mortgage,HSBC in the UK have just launched a mortgage at 1.99% !
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...126219/HSBC-mortgage-charges-just-1.99pc.html


Which is 1.5% over base. A year ago that would not be competative, 18months ago I negotiated 0.17% over base for the full term so currently pay 0.67%

Not in any hurry to pay that one up.


----------



## NeilP

When are Metro stations due to open at Marina? List of ten does not to cover them. Sorry if I missed it somewhere.

"The 10 Red Line stations that will open on September 9 are Rashidiya, Terminal 3 (Dubai International Airport), City Centre, Al Rigga, Union, Khalid bin Al Waleed, Jafiliya, Financial Centre, Mall of the Emirates, and Nakheel Harbour and Tower."

There is no Nakheel Harbour and Tower.


----------



## Wannaberich

True Blue said:


> Not in any hurry to pay that one up.


U may not be but there are plenty who are


----------



## JBCBunny

*Office commercial agents*

Hi there,


We are finally going to go through with the handover of a number of offices in JLT this month & none of us are sure what to do next....:lol:


Can anyone recommend a good commercial agent to give us a hand in selling or renting these units.

will these things rent at all in the current climate?

Any action plan or thoughts will be very warmly received........ even if they involve turning the offices into a brothel lol! :nuts:


----------



## 234sale

Use Dubizzle.com yourself, its free....


----------



## mackie1964

agod said:


> Yes he did, it gave him indigestion, and just as they fired, he bent over doubled up in pain and the bullets went over his head................it's a long story.
> 
> Goodnight Children.
> 
> Uncle al.


Uncle Al

When can I expect to get my Mars Bar / Torch unit? Will the firing squad be involved there too?


----------



## JBCBunny

234sale said:


> Use Dubizzle.com yourself, its free....


Thanks 234sale, will definitely get them up on Dubizzle, was thinking as this is commercial real estate, an agent might be better.

Need to approach companies etc to see if they want the space so might be harder work.:dunno:


----------



## agod

mackie1964 said:


> Uncle Al
> 
> When can I expect to get my Mars Bar / Torch unit? Will the firing squad be involved there too?


Only if you dont sign the addendum, you will be shot.

The Torch will be known in future as the Mars Tower, and the light feature will be replaced by a giant Mars Bar, we hope it wll not melt in the heat, the CEO said today, but in recognition of all the Brits (especially those from Slough) that have purchased there, we wanted to show our commitment to them, we will also pay them 1 box of Mars bars for every week that we are late in delivering the Mars Tower, as a goodwill gesture,
and free appointments at a dentist of there choice.

Alan


----------



## agod

NeilP said:


> When are Metro stations due to open at Marina? List of ten does not to cover them. Sorry if I missed it somewhere.
> 
> "The 10 Red Line stations that will open on September 9 are Rashidiya, Terminal 3 (Dubai International Airport), City Centre, Al Rigga, Union, Khalid bin Al Waleed, Jafiliya, Financial Centre, Mall of the Emirates, and Nakheel Harbour and Tower."
> 
> There is no Nakheel Harbour and Tower.


Neil

Having looked at them today, there is no way the Marina stations will be ready for the 9th, and many others, they have said it is because ther woul not be enough people using them, but, they are still under construction most of them.

Nakheel harbour is at Jebel ali, huge car park, and depot, there will be free feeder buses taking you there from the Marina stations.

Alan


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Metro use makes little sense at the moment for JLT/Marina residents.

For most, Nakheel Harbour will be in the opposite direction that they want to travel in. If they choose to go the other way, by the time they get to MoE, they might as well carry on in whatever mode of transport has taken them that far, to their final destination.


----------



## NeilP

^^

Surely the Marina is the one place where there are thousands of potential users. Makes little sense not to have been one of the first to open. I was looking forward to arriving at airport at end of Oct and using Metro to get to my apartment.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

agod said:


> Only if you dont sign the addendum, you will be shot.
> 
> The Torch will be known in future as the Mars Tower, and the light feature will be replaced by a giant Mars Bar, we hope it wll not melt in the heat, the CEO said today, but in recognition of all the Brits (especially those from Slough) that have purchased there, we wanted to show our commitment to them, we will also pay them 1 box of Mars bars for every week that we are late in delivering the Mars Tower, as a goodwill gesture,
> and free appointments at a dentist of there choice.
> 
> Alan


Dear Uncle Al,

I think the Torch LED will be used for advertising also. So maybe they will get a contract with Mars 

Then you can watch the giant mars glow from every window of your marinascape tower.


----------



## Imre

NeilP said:


> When are Metro stations due to open at Marina? List of ten does not to cover them. Sorry if I missed it somewhere.
> 
> "The 10 Red Line stations that will open on September 9 are Rashidiya, Terminal 3 (Dubai International Airport), City Centre, Al Rigga, Union, Khalid bin Al Waleed, Jafiliya, Financial Centre, Mall of the Emirates, and Nakheel Harbour and Tower."
> 
> There is no Nakheel Harbour and Tower.


workers said by November.

Nakheel Harbour and Tower station will open just because of thecar park building.


----------



## Imre

agod said:


> Neil
> 
> Nakheel harbour is at Jebel ali, huge car park, and depot, there will be free feeder buses taking you there from the Marina stations.
> 
> Alan


Nakheel Harbour is not in Jebel Ali, it was the Jumeirah Island Station before , just next to he JLT .


----------



## Imre

JBCBunny said:


> Hi there,
> 
> 
> We are finally going to go through with the handover of a number of offices in JLT this month & none of us are sure what to do next....:lol:
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good commercial agent to give us a hand in selling or renting these units.
> 
> will these things rent at all in the current climate?
> 
> Any action plan or thoughts will be very warmly received........ even if they involve turning the offices into a brothel lol! :nuts:


office rent at the JLT is very diffiult now, even for 50-55-60 dhs/sqft no tenants because of the DMCC licence rules.

Selling prices now cheaper than the apartments , I saw many adverts around 6-700 dhs/sqft only but noone will buy it.


----------



## TerryPop

Imre said:


> office rent at the JLT is very diffiult now, even for 50-55-60 dhs/sqft no tenants because of the DMCC licence rules.
> 
> Selling prices now cheaper than the apartments , I saw many adverts around 6-700 dhs/sqft only but noone will buy it.


we are in the land of the UN's

Un sellable
Un rentable

Un leveragable

Un believable

JLT needs marketing budget, massive promotion as an office destination, and an open doors no questions asked policy.

DMCC could really sink this turkey or make it swim.


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Any rough idea as to the total number of apartments coming onto the market between now and March in that area?


----------



## 234sale

gerald.d said:


> Blimey. Someone must be desperate for some cash!
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...best-deal-in-old-town-islandtajer1-bedroom-b/


Most likely Emaar,,, Hamptons had an open day, I was suprised how much stock they had.. Well not suprised, more it was what I expected. Still at least 40 units, vacant to let, 50 to sell in Yansoon area


----------



## 234sale

gerald.d said:


> ^^ Any rough idea as to the total number of apartments coming onto the market between now and March in that area?


Yeah!!! Geralds moving to the Old Town,, You know its the best..:cheers:

I used to live at the Green Community and seen quite a few people heading inwards..

My Wife wouldn't live anywhere else, nor would I,, even though rents are probably 40% more than other areas..


----------



## 234sale

Units

Executive Towers 2000
The Lofts 300
Burj Dubai ,,, maybe 300ish

Plus DIFC

Index, 200 ish
Other DIFC Towers 400 ish..
SHZ Road Towers 200 ish

Quite some supply...


----------



## gerald.d

There's no doubt in my mind that OT/Address Hotel/Residences are by far the best places in Dubai, and OTI is la creme de la creme. Just couldn't sell the wife on the idea last year, but she's coming round now. Rarely see any Al Bahar residences come up, but there do seem to be quite a few Tajer around at the moment.

At the end of the day, it'll all come down to timing and what's available for the budget when we come to move.


----------



## 234sale

Fixing the rent low means less it can move up later,,,


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai still attractive for business: Chamber*

Lower rents and cost of doing business make Dubai attractive to investors once more on the back of new laws abolishing the minimum capital requirement for limited-liability companies (LLCs) and the Central Bank’s decision to reduce capital adequacy, an industry official said. 

Hamad Buamim, Director General of the Dubai Chamber, maintained that there is a marked improvement in the business climate. “It is important to maintain an optimistic outlook," he said, "as we note down an increasing number of positive indicators -- decreasing rents, lower expenses of businesses and cost of living, the recently introduced laws on abolishing the minimum capital requirement for LLC companies and the Central Bank’s decision to reduce capital adequacy from 11 per cent to 7 per cent. All these developments will no doubt enhance Dubai’s appeal as an attractive business destination."

Rents have dropped by nearly 40 per cent in some areas and are expected to hit the bottom as more properties under construction are released.

Buamim was speaking to representatives of Dubai’s Business Councils and Business Groups operating under the auspices of 44-year-old Dubai Chamber of Commerce and Industry that issues affecting the business sector.

Among the concerns aired include the strict access to credit for Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs), diminishing financing options, government fines and fees, and other administrative issues raised for the Dubai Chamber to take-up with the relevant authorities.

Presiding over the meetings, Buamim, noted that there has been a marked improvement in the global business climate as suggested by the International Chambers of Commerce (ICC) indicator that registered an upward swing in the third quarter while major stock markets recorded an increase in trading. He also cited the rebound in oil prices, which augurs well for the GCC countries.

INDICATORS

Recent figures reveal that Dubai saw a four per cent increase in the incoming passenger traffic, a 72-per cent hotel occupancy, 17-per cent increase in retail sales during the summer and two per cent rise in air cargo from last year.

This is in contrast to the 20 per cent drop in the international air cargo, he said, adding: “Our study on the second quarter indicates that our members’ exports have gone up by 6.5 per cent which is a good sign for the time to come.”

The fact that a number of major infrastructure projects such as the Dubai Metro are materialising stands as a sign of economic recovery, he stressed.

“The launch of Dubai Metro is a positive development for Dubai, reaffirming the city’s commitment to excellence and its ongoing drive to deliver on its promises.

“It is definitely a message to the business community that Dubai means business. The launch of the Dubai Metro will bring a great deal of positive change to the city as it continues to evolve and develop in line with the vision of His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, UAE Vice President, Prime Minister and Ruler of Dubai,” said Buamim.

Results of the monthly Business Leaders Panel Survey conducted by the chamber over the last six months where revealed with participants from the business community citing certain limiting factors like keen price competition, decline in global demand, high rental costs, and limited access to credit.

STREAMLINING

The results of the survey also revealed that the participants expected the government to facilitate and streamline administrative procedures and reduce the fees of some services such as issuing visas to workers and trade licenses, help facilitate access to finance for small and medium enterprises, and develop targeted programs to strengthen and improve confidence in the various economic sectors.

The Dubai Chamber also called upon business group and councils’ representatives to attend the upcoming Business Suhoor gathering which will provide guests with the opportunity to interact with Sultan Al Mansouri, the UAE Minister of Finance, who will be the keynote speaker at the event.

Dubai Chamber started organising the quarterly roundtable discussions with its business groups and business councils since the beginning of the year to help bridge the gap between the private and public sectors.


----------



## Philippa C

smussuw said:


> Didn't u have a villa in Arabian Ranches in which u could've rent for like 300k or 400k, I think, but u delayed hoping for a better offer? I wonder what do u call that :nuts:


My haven't you a good memory  Yes we have a villa in the ranches and we held off renting it as we were trying to sell it and the agents told us it was easier to sell a vacant villa. In the end we did rent it fyi.


----------



## Imre

*UAE on the way to overcoming global crisis *

Gulf News Report
Published: September 04, 2009, 22:58


Dubai: The UAE is solidly on its way to overcoming the current global financial crisis, which "will not last for long," His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, has said.

"The crisis will not last long despite the sceptical analyses and speculation of economic and financial experts," Shaikh Mohammad was quoted by WAM as saying during a meeting with leaders of UAE-based Arab and international companies, including key technical and financial institutions, on Thursday evening at Za'abeel palace on the occasion of Ramadan.

The Vice-President expressed confidence that "the UAE government, in cooperation with the private sector, will overcome this crisis." He urged business leaders to "always look forward and embrace change for the best". 

He also was briefed by his guests on the status of their companies. "They affirmed to Shaikh Mohammad that the current conditions are only temporary," and expressed their trust in "the procedures taken by the UAE government to stimulate the national economy which led to its recovery and with minimal losses," WAM said.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Economy/10346419.html


----------



## Naz UK

^^Imre, I'm surprised to see you still copy and paste this bullshit, when you (should!) know full well that these press monkeys are only printing what the authorities want (and force) them to print, without the inclusion of any factual analysis, market research, public opinion or truth, for that matter.


----------



## Imre

I wanted to post some positive news ,anyway agree with you about the local press


----------



## manjit

Dear All, 

has anybody got latest update on the delivery of la Vista by Al Manal. I have paid 50% and now they are asking additional 10% to be paid immediately. How much you guys have paid?


----------



## manjit

Dear HPM,

I have bought aprtment in Tower 4. I had a quick look today at site and the work progress is very slow. It seems the delivery is further delayed to June 2010.
I ahve paid 50% and the builder is asking for more.
keep me posted.

Thanks

Manjit


----------



## Wannaberich

Naz UK said:


> ^^Imre, I'm surprised to see you still copy and paste this bullshit, when you (should!) know full well that these press monkeys are only printing what the authorities want (and force) them to print, without the inclusion of any factual analysis, market research, public opinion or truth, for that matter.


When its bad news everyone believes the facts etc,when its good news it always gets questioned and accusations of bullshit are made.


----------



## jagmp

i returned from my Dubai holiday.had a lovely time.with all the negative publicity about property market and general negativity about Dubai as a whole i still love it.as a holiday destination luxury hotels beachs sand and sea good infrastructure top medical facilities shopping in world class malls good food.what else do you need.

Dubai mall was a ghost town inspite of the best location while MoE was always full.road were not that empty inspite of Ramdan.both the hotels Hilton jumeirah and Atlantis must be 70% to 60% full respectively..may be because of summer discount.one would not expect beaches JBR and marina walk to be buzzing in this weather.yet indian restaurants India palace and Sukh sagar were always buzzing.tourists will be back once world economy recovers.

i may not invest again in Dubai but i will not sell my investments either.atleast i will have a place in the sun to stay during uk winter months.and they are nice little earners at present.


----------



## Naz UK

Wannaberich said:


> When its bad news everyone believes the facts etc,when its good news it always gets questioned and accusations of bullshit are made.


Bad news? In the Gulf News? What are you talking about?


----------



## Pleth

234sale said:


> Units
> 
> Executive Towers 2000
> The Lofts 300
> Burj Dubai ,,, maybe 300ish
> 
> Plus DIFC
> 
> Index, 200 ish
> Other DIFC Towers 400 ish..
> SHZ Road Towers 200 ish
> 
> Quite some supply...


2000 in Executive Towers? Did not realize it was that big?
Also lots in International City, some nice ones with pools and fittness centres.

It is rather difficult to get at 2-bedr. in International City at the moment, as a lot of people now can afford to move from their studio and 1-bedr. to get a bigger one.


----------



## jeetha

gerald.d said:


> Learned of a scam today. Probably old news for folk here, but...
> 
> Landlord lets his property through an agency.
> 
> Tenant has contract with agency, not landlord.
> 
> Tenant signs 1-cheque contract with agency.
> 
> Agency signs 4-cheque contract with landlord.
> 
> You can probably guess what happens next...


Agent advertises a few properties in Dubizzle.com @ half prize bargains.

Like so: http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...best-deal-in-old-town-islandtajer1-bedroom-b/

Informs landlord price archived 4-cheques within minutes of advertising.

Landlord happy  as he is getting full price & tenant happy :banana: with paying 1-cheque for half the price property

Agent banks the cheque in his own bank account, pays landlord quarter of the full amount agreed with him and disappears with the balances.

If he does it with 10-20 landlords all together……WOW

Easily done as happy landlord/tenant will recommend his friends to the same Agent.

So people be careful that property advertised in Dubizzle.com could be yours. hno:


----------



## Morrismarina

jagmp said:


> Dubai mall was a ghost town inspite of the best location


Seems odd when I was there in April it was absolutely rammed with people, I was quite surprised. My friends parents who been out in Dubai since February, go regularly and say the Mall is getting busier and busier. Strange how everybody has a different view on these things. :weird:


----------



## Yre

Morrismarina said:


> Seems odd when I was there in April it was absolutely rammed with people, I was quite surprised. My friends parents who been out in Dubai since February, go regularly and say the Mall is getting busier and busier. Strange how everybody has a different view on these things. :weird:


April? Wasn't that the time when there was a walk-in interview for jobseekers? Could be the reason why it was jampacked with people...


----------



## True Blue

Could be time of the visit. No matter what mall you go to in the morning, they are always dead and night time is busy.


----------



## jagmp

^^

i was there in the late evening.there were no shoppers only few visiters wandering around.obviously tourists who came to see the mall.


----------



## Imre

Naz UK said:


> ^^Imre, I'm surprised to see you still copy and paste this bullshit, when you (should!) know full well that these press monkeys are only printing what the authorities want (and force) them to print, without the inclusion of any factual analysis, market research, public opinion or truth, for that matter.


more good news just for you 

*Sheikh Mohammed says finance crisis a 'passing cloud'*

05 September 2009 

Ruler of Dubai Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum called on the private sector to work with the government to get through the financial crisis, which was a "passing cloud", state news agency WAM said on Friday.

"(The crisis) is a passing cloud that will not stay longer, despite pessimistic speculations and analyses by economists and financial experts," the leader, who is also the UAE's vice president, told business executives on Thursday, WAM said.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/566798-sheikh-mohammed-says-finance-crisis-a-passing-cloud


----------



## dirtyharry1

Sheik Mo is always good for a joke...


----------



## dubaiprojects

*hi*

I have been offered 45K for Icon2 1 bed, is it a good deal?


----------



## jagmp

^^
try to get it for one check.a friend of mine rented out two br for 59k one check.there are plenty more in the market.and many more projects are going to be handed over soon.take it and be at peace for one year.:cheers:


----------



## smussuw

dirtyharry1 said:


> Sheik Mo is always good for a joke...


I guess that makes u a clown then for falling for him previously :cheers:


----------



## enduser

jagmp said:


> i returned from my Dubai holiday.had a lovely time.with all the negative publicity about property market and general negativity about Dubai as a whole i still love it.as a holiday destination luxury hotels beachs sand and sea good infrastructure top medical facilities shopping in world class malls good food.what else do you need.
> 
> Dubai mall was a ghost town inspite of the best location while MoE was always full.road were not that empty inspite of Ramdan.both the hotels Hilton jumeirah and Atlantis must be 70% to 60% full respectively..may be because of summer discount.one would not expect beaches JBR and marina walk to be buzzing in this weather.yet indian restaurants India palace and Sukh sagar were always buzzing.tourists will be back once world economy recovers.i may not invest again in Dubai but i will not sell my investments either.atleast i will have a place in the sun to stay during uk winter months.and they are nice little earners at present.


Just came back from Dubai after a 1 week stop and couldnt agree more with all your points. I was there last time in April and the place has changed within a few months. From a tourist/visitors point of view its much improved.


----------



## dubaiprojects

jagmp said:


> ^^
> try to get it for one check.a friend of mine rented out two br for 59k one check.there are plenty more in the market.and many more projects are going to be handed over soon.take it and be at peace for one year.:cheers:


Thanks for your reply.
What expenses will be on me? besides the yearly maintenance which is like 17AED psf. 

Cheers


----------



## jagmp

^^
at the moment i can't see any expenses.the apt is under warranty for the first year.moreover there are electrician plumbers and technician on site 24 hrs.so general maintanance is been taken care of.in my contract small repair works are on tenant and major ones on landlord.

i visited my apt last week.my tenant is a young single man.he sorted out all the problems.he said he paid few bucks to all the workers and everything was done in 24hrs.well thats how thing work there.i didn't need to do snagging.he did it for me.i am very pleased with my apt.he has done the whole apt with great style.


----------



## Masood

anacreon said:


> Joe04,? Where did this info come from? I know a number of investors who will be very badly affected by this.


Please explain what has happened - I see Joe04's comments have been edited.

Any update on Desert Home or the Desert Rose project please


----------



## Dubai_Steve

smussuw said:


> I guess that makes u a clown then for falling for him previously :cheers:


Yes slowly but surely all the expat investors are turning into them


----------



## 234sale

Fully off topic,,



Back on topic,, Maybe a landlord from Dubai


----------



## AltinD

^^ Why is he Italian?


----------



## 234sale

Greek I think,,,


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> Could be time of the visit. No matter what mall you go to in the morning, they are always dead and night time is busy.


You must be right TB it was 9pm when I had a look round.


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> Could be time of the visit. No matter what mall you go to in the morning, they are always dead and night time is busy.


Exactly. Which makes me think of Denmark and Germany where the shops are open while you are at work, and closed when you have free time to do your shopping. :bash:.


----------



## glover

*Bank financing makes up about 15 per cent of the total housing market of the country, while the rest is still cash-based.*

*says Saud Masud, the head of research and lead property analyst at UBS Bank in Dubai.*

“Banks are to be blamed to some extent for the situation they are in now. Giving out 90 to 95 per cent loan-to-value ratios at the peak of the market meant they were stretching themselves to the limits,” Mr Masud says. “Bank financing makes up about 15 per cent of the total housing market of the country, while the rest is still cash-based. Of the Dh110bn estimated mortgages written in 2008, the majority were for Dubai projects and 60 per cent of them have been issued by Amlak and Tamweel.”

this is quoted from this story: *Costly UAE mortgages repel buyers.*

Sarmad Khan
the national
* Last Updated: September 06. 2009 5:39PM UAE / September 6. 2009 1:39PM GMT
http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090906/BUSINESS/709069964/1005


----------



## TerryPop

glover said:


> *says Saud Masud, the head of research and lead property analyst at UBS Bank in Dubai.*
> 
> “Banks are to be blamed to some extent for the situation they are in now. Giving out 90 to 95 per cent loan-to-value ratios at the peak of the market meant they were stretching themselves to the limits,” Mr Masud says. “Bank financing makes up about 15 per cent of the total housing market of the country, while the rest is still cash-based. Of the Dh110bn estimated mortgages written in 2008, the majority were for Dubai projects and 60 per cent of them have been issued by Amlak and Tamweel.”
> 
> this is quoted from this story: *Costly UAE mortgages repel buyers.*
> 
> Sarmad Khan
> the national
> * Last Updated: September 06. 2009 5:39PM UAE / September 6. 2009 1:39PM GMT
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090906/BUSINESS/709069964/1005




*But the cheapest rate now available from HSBC Middle East for a UAE mortgage is 7.45 per cent.*


Servicing a mortgage today in Dubai is well over 10% per annum- when you include repayments on capital with the interest rate.

I know loan sharks charging less.

With a large drop in interest rates, the market opens up to more investors.

Buy to let investors for one, and renters thinking of owning as another. 

At least there are a few things like this that Dubai can fix to try and bounce back.

You never know a massive rate reduction and a turn around in population growth and the effect could be dramatic.


----------



## TerryPop

TerryPop said:


> *But the cheapest rate now available from HSBC Middle East for a UAE mortgage is 7.45 per cent.*
> 
> 
> Servicing a mortgage today in Dubai is well over 10% per annum- when you include repayments on capital with the interest rate.
> 
> I know loan sharks charging less.
> 
> With a large drop in interest rates, the market opens up to more investors.
> 
> Buy to let investors for one, and renters thinking of owning as another.
> 
> At least there are a few things like this that Dubai can fix to try and bounce back.
> 
> You never know a massive rate reduction and a turn around in population growth and the effect could be dramatic.



If you think the mean/average salary for an average punter looking to buy is (completely random guess here) 300,000 dirhams per year.

Then 100,000 dhms set aside for a mortgage means they are good for a loan of a million dirhams.

In this market liquidity for anything over 1.5million dirhams, and therefore sales of anything over a mill is going to be shit.

With a capital poo.


----------



## Richard Head

TerryPop said:


> If you think the mean/average salary for an average punter looking to buy is (completely random guess here) 300,000 dirhams per year.
> 
> Then 100,000 dhms set aside for a mortgage means they are good for a loan of a million dirhams.
> 
> In this market liquidity for anything over 1.5million dirhams, and therefore sales of anything over a mill is going to be shit.
> 
> With a capital poo.


Completely random and completely wrong guess. When you're talking about the general freehold market, anybody here on "only" 25k a month all-in that wants a piece of that market is going to be single. That covers the studios and one-beds. Everyone buying larger apartments and villas are either sharing, or families. Trust me, nobody here with a real shot at the real estate ownership market is supporting a family on 25k a month. They are either earning a lot more than that, have existing liquid cash to fund purchases, or have two incomes. I'm on approx 45k and I would struggle without my wife also having a job if I had to find a 15k mortgage payment out of that in addition to two lots of school fees and the general cost of living here. An don't even get me started on the cost of Stella :cheers::cheers::cheers:


----------



## Imre

*CEO of Damac Properties to resign *

Staff Report 
Published: September 07, 2009, 14:11

Dubai: Peter Riddoch, CEO of Damac Properties announced on Monday that he will be resigning as CEO of the UAE-based property developer next month. 

Riddoch said he arrived at his decision to leave with great difficulty but that it was time for him to move on. 

“To leave an organisation that has been a significant part of my life for so many years will not be easy, but I know that the time is right for me to make some changes, focus a bit more on my personal interests and family, and possibly even take on new challenges," Riddoch said.

Hussain Sajwani, Chairman of Damac Properties confirmed that he had reluctantly accepted Peter’s resignation and that although he was sad to lose him that he wished him every success for the future. 


He said: ‘’Peter has contributed significantly in steering our business over the past seven years and as an organisation we have greatly benefited from his industry knowledge and experience." 

Until such time as a suitable replacement for Riddoch is appointed, day to day operations will be run by the senior management team at Damac Properties under the direction of the Chairman.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10346931.html


----------



## Mistermark

TerryPop said:


> *But the cheapest rate now available from HSBC Middle East for a UAE mortgage is 7.45 per cent.*
> 
> 
> Servicing a mortgage today in Dubai is well over 10% per annum- when you include repayments on capital with the interest rate.
> 
> I know loan sharks charging less.
> 
> With a large drop in interest rates, the market opens up to more investors.
> 
> Buy to let investors for one, and renters thinking of owning as another.
> 
> At least there are a few things like this that Dubai can fix to try and bounce back.
> 
> You never know a massive rate reduction and a turn around in population growth and the effect could be dramatic.


I agree that cheaper mortgages would transform the market. I'm surprised rates aren't lower. What's the base rate in UAE?


----------



## gerald.d

Richard Head said:


> An don't even get me started on the cost of Stella :cheers::cheers::cheers:


I'd certainly concur with that. Stella is way overpriced for what you get in return.

Svetlana is far better value.


----------



## TerryPop

Mistermark said:


> I agree that cheaper mortgages would transform the market. I'm surprised rates aren't lower. What's the base rate in UAE?


I think it's 1.5%? not sure tho- got a feelng High Times is the man to ask.

Whatever it is, if they get a mortgage product into the market with a rate around 3-3.5% (very do-able)

Then this allows the average man on the street in Dubai to have a 2-3mill mortgage instead of a 1mill mortgage.


It also allows buy-to-let markt in who can play the margin of debt at say 4% and income of 5-8%.

Hello plis- backside- left-side-in side coming


----------



## Hanna

*Peter Riddoch Who !*

Hi Imre 


It must be my sixth sence or something. I was going to write yesterday 
Peter Riddoch has not been heard of in months and maybe he has been 
booted right out of the company, and you know what I still think he has,
I don't believe time was right and new challenge bullshit he is going in 
just the same way his fellow Edinburgh brethern Gordon Brown, out the 
door by October only difiference Brown will go out under 'Mental' I mean
health reasons.

Maybe we will get an honest and ethical regime in his place (you can only hope).


:banana:







Imre said:


> *CEO of Damac Properties to resign *
> 
> Staff Report
> Published: September 07, 2009, 14:11
> 
> Dubai: Peter Riddoch, CEO of Damac Properties announced on Monday that he will be resigning as CEO of the UAE-based property developer next month.
> 
> Riddoch said he arrived at his decision to leave with great difficulty but that it was time for him to move on.
> 
> “To leave an organisation that has been a significant part of my life for so many years will not be easy, but I know that the time is right for me to make some changes, focus a bit more on my personal interests and family, and possibly even take on new challenges," Riddoch said.
> 
> Hussain Sajwani, Chairman of Damac Properties confirmed that he had reluctantly accepted Peter’s resignation and that although he was sad to lose him that he wished him every success for the future.
> 
> 
> He said: ‘’Peter has contributed significantly in steering our business over the past seven years and as an organisation we have greatly benefited from his industry knowledge and experience."
> 
> Until such time as a suitable replacement for Riddoch is appointed, day to day operations will be run by the senior management team at Damac Properties under the direction of the Chairman.
> 
> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10346931.html


----------



## TerryPop

Richard Head said:


> Completely random and completely wrong guess. When you're talking about the general freehold market, anybody here on "only" 25k a month all-in that wants a piece of that market is going to be single. That covers the studios and one-beds. Everyone buying larger apartments and villas are either sharing, or families. Trust me, nobody here with a real shot at the real estate ownership market is supporting a family on 25k a month. They are either earning a lot more than that, have existing liquid cash to fund purchases, or have two incomes. I'm on approx 45k and I would struggle without my wife also having a job if I had to find a 15k mortgage payment out of that in addition to two lots of school fees and the general cost of living here. An don't even get me started on the cost of Stella :cheers::cheers::cheers:



:cheers:


----------



## cayman1

I see offices in BB for 1100 aed psqft like citadel and other under construction for 2000 2500 aed and i see offices for rent at 120, 200 aed but which is the real situation ? Is easy to sell or to rent ? I have offices in tower under construction near citadel , are there problems to sell under construction ? 
thanks


----------



## High Times

TerryPop said:


> I think it's 1.5%? not sure tho- got a feelng High Times is the man to ask.


3 Month EIBOR (Bank loans are usualy raised on this) is currently 2.14%
5 year deposits with NBD will get you around 2.5%
This is the cost of money to the Bank.

Mortgages are offered for around 7%-8% in the UAE. 
This is the income on the money for the Bank.

The margins are massive as the percieved risk is elevated due to the Real Estate sector being in such a mess.
This is the excuse for extortionate profits.

Banks are literaly cioning it in across the globe at the moment. The UK in poarticular as they are funding at 0.5% and still lending at 4%-6%. Not only that they are sat on billions of tax payers money to prop up their balance sheets at a nominal charge, and no repayment table established.

*If only people understood that this would happen say 12 months ago, maybe they would have bought some bank shares.* :lol:

*He who dares Rodney.* :cheers:


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Bank share performance over the last 12 months:

Barclays: +13.6%
HSBC: -21.1%
Lloyds: -60.8%
RBS: -73.65%

C: -74.57%
BAC: -46.97%
JPM: +6.92%
WFC: -13.75%
USB: -34.48%


(I think your timing recommendations may be just a wee bit off, but you picked a blinder with Barclays)


----------



## Naz UK

LOL. Welcome to The Gerald and High Times Show.


----------



## DaYFox

cayman1 said:


> I see offices in BB for 1100 aed psqft like citadel and other under construction for 2000 2500 aed and i see offices for rent at 120, 200 aed but which is the real situation ? Is easy to sell or to rent ? I have offices in tower under construction near citadel , are there problems to sell under construction ?
> thanks


would be very much interested in the answer to ur question! What is the current sqfet price in BB? What is the rent?

However, i think its impossible to say at the moment.


----------



## gerald.d

Naz UK said:


> LOL. Welcome to The Gerald and High Times Show.


LOLZ.

I just find it rather strange to make a statement that 12 months ago was a good time to buy bank shares.

5 months ago, no argument.

(and to stress - as I've already said before - it was clearly a good play that HT did on Barclays. Credit where credit's due.)


----------



## High Times

I didnt want to retort, as i will probably get acused of bullying geraldine by showing yet again his shortcomings in life.

What i actualy said was;

*"If only people understood that this would happen say 12 months ago, maybe they would have bought some bank shares."*

I never said that I purchased bank shares on this day 12 months ago. However lets look at what could have been achieved with your quote of Lloyds over the last 12 months.



gerald.d said:


> ^^ Bank share performance over the last 12 months:
> 
> *Lloyds: -60.8%*
> 
> (I think your timing recommendations may be just a wee bit off, but you picked a blinder with Barclays)





gerald.d said:


> LOLZ.
> 
> I just find it rather strange to make a statement that 12 months ago was a good time to buy bank shares.


^^ I only said if people *understood the facts 12 months ago* nothing about purchasing and valuing 12 months to the day. Thats where you have tried to manipulate things in your favour AGAIN.

Your obviously still pissed that in all of our previuos dissagreements i have turned out to be right and you have turned out to be wrong. Currency exchange, UK Bank stock and commodoties being three prime examples.

Anyone wishing to see why Gerry is constantly trying to get a rise out of me feel free to read this post as it sums it all up rather nicely (including a begrudging acknowledgement of my success from Gerry)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=35672640#post35672640

Gerry you really should move on with your life, it is not my fault you feel inadequate. You can get pills and creams for that sort of thing now.


----------



## gerald.d

LOLZ once again.

No cure for your malaise though, is there?


----------



## High Times

gerald.d said:


> LOLZ once again.
> 
> No cure for your malaise though, is there?


Oh i dont know, your sad little efforts are a constant source of amusement. 

Anyway in the words of the great *Dai Tengu* (the man responsible for keeping this forum alive)

Gerald *"Stop spamming the forums"*

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=40417814&highlight=#post40417814

Lolz indeed, showing your age there gerry. That's what old farts say online cause they think it's hip and cool and down with the street jive. 

I bet you twitter too dont you. :yes:


----------



## TerryPop

High Times said:


> 3 Month EIBOR (Bank loans are usualy raised on this) is currently 2.14%
> 5 year deposits with NBD will get you around 2.5%
> This is the cost of money to the Bank.
> 
> Mortgages are offered for around 7%-8% in the UAE.
> This is the income on the money for the Bank.
> 
> The margins are massive as the percieved risk is elevated due to the Real Estate sector being in such a mess.
> This is the excuse for extortionate profits.
> 
> Banks are literaly cioning it in across the globe at the moment. The UK in poarticular as they are funding at 0.5% and still lending at 4%-6%. Not only that they are sat on billions of tax payers money to prop up their balance sheets at a nominal charge, and no repayment table established.
> 
> :cheers:


thanks for this HT appreciate it, as half of us don't really understand how the banks have brought us down, and now hold us back.

Mrs Pop says she is up for it if you fancy- she's all yours.


----------



## Wannaberich

I hope the trashy UK newspapers and any other worldwide who are always slating Dubai
will at least recognise something good about Dubai and report on this amazing metro system !


----------



## Philippa C

Wannaberich said:


> I hope the trashy UK newspapers and any other worldwide who are always slating Dubai
> will at least recognise something good about Dubai and report on this amazing metro system !


They will probably only report on the Metro the first time there is an accident!


----------



## Philippa C

Mistermark said:


> I agree that cheaper mortgages would transform the market. I'm surprised rates aren't lower. What's the base rate in UAE?


It's very frustrating that so little is beig done to revive the property market - not try to bring it back to crazy prices but just to get it moving more actively. 

Anyway did the mass exodus occur over the summer? My daughter's school class is full and I notice that while there are still some houses for sale around where we live, a lot of "rented" signs on them. I do believe the traffic is also heavier.


----------



## True Blue

Is the high mortgage interest not related to the fact that there is very little funds available in Dubai's banks to lend? Economics of supply and demand.


----------



## ebrahim11

Is it not the case that there is very little / no money available for banks for lend?


----------



## Philippa C

ebrahim11 said:


> Is it not the case that there is very little / no money available for banks for lend?


I think the banks have the money they just don't want to lend...cf Sweeping overhaul of liquidity rules planned http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Banking_and_Finance/10347159.html "The Central Bank's decision on capital adequacy is driven "by a desire to spur lending, but I am not sure it will actually have that much of an impact," Raj Madha, the Dubai-based director for equity research at investment bank EFG-Hermes Holding SAE, said. "Lending isn't currently constrained by regulatory minimums, as *most of the banks are significantly above the Tier 1 ratio anyway, and if they wanted to lend they could*."


----------



## jagmp

what are the deciding factors for interest rate in Uae.does central bank look at the inflation.is it a liquidity factor in the region or is it simply decided by a group of people at the higher autority.there has to be some basis.

liquidity seems to be still a problem.recently we went to NBD JBR branch.they didn't have more than 40k.next day we went to SZ road branch we had to wait for three hours to get the amount we wanted.which was very surprising.


----------



## montranieri

ebrahim11 said:


> Is it not the case that there is very little / no money available for banks for lend?


I think the reason why interest rates are higher than normal are mainly 2:

1) not real competition between the banks but a sort of cartel.
2) Now that the interbank rate is at a record low and they could reduce big time the landing rates, banks do not trust real estate sector (most of them have a lot of payment defaults with properties prices 50% down from the peak). That's why they want more margin to reduce the risk.

In both the cases this is bad for the UAE property market


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai Marina tops list of home hotspots in August*

Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Lake Towers and Palm Jumeirah have topped the list of most sought-after locations in Dubai to buy or rent in August, according to a survey by a property portal.

Availability of a number of ready units in these locations helped increase its demand. "With the off-plan market being dead, we have seen more and more browsing activity in these areas where people are looking out for ready properties to rent and buy in Dubai," said Marcello Sambartolo, Head of Marketing at propertyfinder.ae, one of the UAE's leading property portals.

"In Dubai Marina, which was ranked number one in our survey, prices have become more affordable from a rent and sales perspective. Dubai Marina has been one of the hotspots in the city for a while and now that prices have come down, it is seen as more affordable. An increase in the number of new restaurants, cafés and amenities in the area in the past six months also increased its popularity."

"The usual suspects such as International City, the Greens, Mirdiff, Jumeriah Beach Residences and Discovery Gardens made it to the list again in August although a few areas have shifted position. Abu Dhabi hasn't really been discussed much, but rest assured the emirate is turning heads."

The survey is based on approximately one million property page views on more than 20,000 properties seen by roughly 130,000 visitors to the website during August.

Sambartolo said the reason for the high browsing activity in these areas was because more ready properties were handed over in the recent months. "Areas such as Karama, Bur Dubai and Al Mankhool have more long-lasting interests."

Sambartolo added it takes about a month for a transaction to be transpired from the time a person begins his browsing activity for a particular area.

"Some brokers in Dubai have actually reported more sales in the summer than in the spring of 2009. Since many may have closed up, the remaining brokers would have got down to business. Another reason could be that it's easier to go up when coming from a low point. Whatever the motive, there's some action," he added.


----------



## TerryPop

montranieri said:


> I think the reason why interest rates are higher than normal are mainly 2:
> 
> 1) not real competition between the banks but a sort of cartel.
> 2) Now that the interbank rate is at a record low and they could reduce big time the landing rates, banks do not trust real estate sector (most of them have a lot of payment defaults with properties prices 50% down from the peak). That's why they want more margin to reduce the risk.
> 
> In both the cases this is bad for the UAE property market


Tell them to trust the real estate sector!

1 beds in Discovery Gardens renting at 55k-65k selling for 500-600k.

1 beds in marina renting at 70-80k selling for 800-1000,000

etc etc

Get those interest rates down so we can work with the above.

As it is you have hard working people with mortgages who cannot break even even if they vacate and rent.

I know many who could cover their repayments to the bank by renting their units out if rates halved.

This feels like bullying and it feels like the elite ignoring the masses- no clearer way to put it.

SHeikh mo, firm hand on the banks pls- get a 3% mortgage product into the market asap.


----------



## jagmp

Tue, Sep 8 04:05 PM

Dubai, Sept 8 (PTI) After a brief lull, Dubai is back to its biggest and tallest ways and once again it is a building that is set to make the statement. As a step in this direction, Trident International Holdings has awarded a USD 400 million contract to Arabian Construct ion Company (ACC) to build the world''s tallest residential tower the ''Pentominium'' in Dubai Marina.

According to the developer, the 124 floor Pentominium "whose name is derived from two words: penthouse and condominium" will be one of the world''s tallest man-made structures and is projected to be the second-tallest building in the world after Burj Dubai. Each apartment in the 618 metres tower will consist of either half a floor, or an entire floor.

The total built-up area will be 170,000 square metres and the construction duration is expected to take 48 months, a company statement released yesterday said. The Pentominium will be the tallest all-residential building in the world upon completion and it currently has the highest projected height of any residential building under construction, according to Aedas, the project designers.

Executive Director and CEO of Trident International Holdings, Wazir Daredia, said "Pentominium is a unique project that escalates the concept of luxury living to new heights and with construction major ACC on board, the project has joined an exquisite bouquet of brand partnerships we have forged for the development.:nuts::lol:


----------



## True Blue

jagmp said:


> what are the deciding factors for interest rate in Uae.does central bank look at the inflation.is it a liquidity factor in the region or is it simply decided by a group of people at the higher autority.there has to be some basis.
> 
> liquidity seems to be still a problem.recently we went to NBD JBR branch.they didn't have more than 40k.next day we went to SZ road branch we had to wait for three hours to get the amount we wanted.which was very surprising.


I have heard this story before from other people. A taxi driver once advised me not to save with local banks as it is very difficult to get large sums paid back out. Common one is, you have not made a withdrawal in last 6 months so your account is frozen, will be a few weeks to get funds released. The idea of a savings account is you don't keep withdrawing regularly but pay in. In UK we have high interest accounts that require 30days notice but you know that up front.

Taxi drivers advice was send the money home it is safer outside of Dubai. He did not know my account is in The Bank of Scotland now Lloyds TSB


----------



## Cayman

^^
I have had similar difficulties trying to withdraw sizeable amounts form Emirates bank, but I guess it is more to do with them being disorganised, rather than a liquidity issue.

In the big scheme of things, the amounts I was trying to withdraw were negligible.


----------



## Philippa C

TerryPop said:


> SHeikh mo, firm hand on the banks pls- get a 3% mortgage product into the market asap.


There must be some mechanism open to the gov to cap the difference between the official central bank interest rate and the rates the banks are charging customers. They are strangling the economic revival by limiting liquidity. 

Ok so they went a bit crazy lending money too freely and have some defaults but now they are squeezing every drop of blood from the people who are struggling to keep up with their mortgages rather than helping those people out.


----------



## bizzybonita

New classification system for brokers 

on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 

Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) yesterday launched a new four-tiered, colour-coded classification system for real estate broker licences, which will help safeguard property sales in the emirate.

According to Rera, the new classification system will see it register brokers with one of the four types of licences that will authorise them to sell a particular type of property within a specified area.

"Previously, Rera had recommended that only brokers registered with the agency should be used and had taken steps to ensure they were properly qualified to carry out their duties professionally. Today, we have moved to the next stage. Now, only brokers with appropriate licences will be able to act as agents in buying and selling specific types of property. This is a huge step in the right direction," said Yousef Al Hashemi, Director of Licensing.

According to the new colour-coded system, brokers registered with Rera will be issued a blue licence by the Department of Economic Development (DED) that will allow them to carry out all types of brokerage activities and operate throughout the emirate. They will also be allowed to operate within the free zones if they are authorised to do so by the relevant authority.

The next level of brokers will hold yellow licences and licensed by the appropriate free-zone authorities to carry out brokerage activities. They will be licensed by the free-zone authorities to carry out the full range of brokerage activities but will be registered to operate only within designated freehold areas owned by that authority.

If an authority does not own freehold real estate, it will not be entitled to issue licences and any broker with such a licence from such a free zone will not be registered by Rera.

The level three brokers holding green licences will be authorised by the DED and registered by Rera to sell only the properties of specific companies or developers.

The tier four brokers having a red licence, registered by Rera, will only be authorised to promote, sell or rent time-share units.

According to Rera, the forms for the new licensing system will be available on its website with a new set of online forms based on their levels and privileges.

Brokers will have access to online and brokerage services and access to property within their sphere of operation only. The system will not allow them access to property if they are not qualified to sell.

Further, the colour-coded classification and broker listing will be available on the Rera website allowing investors to select the appropriate broker.

"This initiative is a major landmark in the process of safeguarding the interests of property buyers, owners and investors by consolidating the rigour, accountability and transparency that is so crucial to the market," said Al Hashemi.

"Rera has been introducing regulations step by step as required and where it can be most effective. We began the process with initiatives such as escrow accounts and regulating brokerage sales by introducing registration for brokers with a strict system for qualification and training and a scale of penalties. We have seen significant progress and the main pillars of the regulatory framework are in place. These initiatives have emerged from consultation with our professional communities and from input and feedback from our stakeholders," he added.

Mubarak Al Jafla, head of broker registration, Rera, said: "The big change is that broker licences will be linked to specific areas. We will no longer face a situation where someone licensed by a free zone, which owns no property, can be registered to sell real estate in other parts of Dubai. This privilege will extend only to blue licence holders – those with a full Department of Economic Development licence and registered with Rera."

"From today, each broker's activity will cover the areas for which they have responsibility and about which they are knowledgeable. By insisting brokers should be dedicated and active in specific areas we are ensuring they can add value and serve buyers and investors better.

"The overall effect will be to limit the number of licensed brokers selling property to those who are able to offer a professional, expert and dedicated service."

Rera said brokers can apply directly for their new licences immediately or wait until their current licence expires. They will have appropriate access and privileges only after they have applied for and been granted their colour-coded licence.

Via Business24-7.ae


----------



## Imre

*Press release*

*For immediate publication* 8 September 2009

*Dubai benefits from ‘boomerang’ effect*










Dubai’s falling rental prices provide respite for expats escaping high prices in Abu Dhabi and lure back residents who fled to the northern emirates in search of cheaper accommodation last year, says expert 

Abu Dhabi’s economic strength has come to Dubai’s aid at federal level, and the same has been happening, more discreetly, at residential level too. The UAE capital’s infrastructural development, shortage of supply and high prices have allowed more people live in ‘New Dubai’, much to Dubai’s commercial benefit, according to Mohammed Nimer, CEO of MAG Group Property Development.

“It’s a mirror image of what happened last year – initially Dubai’s rising rental prices forced expat residents out to Sharjah, Ajman and Ras Al Khaimah, but now the sharp fall in prices is luring them back,” said Nimer.

“These two distinct dynamics that have played out in separate Emirates, during different periods, have both ironically resulted in breathing life into Dubai’s residential market at a time when other areas of the UAE real estate market have been left gasping,” he added.

One-bedroom apartments in Jumeirah Lake Towers or Dubai Marina are now renting for around AED60,000-70,000, at least AED30,000 less than last year, so it’s little wonder that they’ve suddenly become a lot more appealing to pivotal mid-income budgets.

“It’s easy to forget, amid stagnant off plan sales, that the heartbeat of Dubai’s real estate industry, leasing sales, is still ticking,” said Nimer.

David Macadam, Director of Commercial Division, Better Homes, transacted 400 leases in Dubai in May, compared with between 200 and 300 per month in 2008. A third of these were new entries from the UK, Europe and the US, who were mostly mid-level managers, a third were from outlying emirates, and a third were residents who were shifting internally as district prices drop. 

Perhaps most importantly, there are signs that residential sales are picking up, drawing in more genuine buyers and end users, rather than the care-free speculators of yesteryear. 

The value of mortgages issued in Dubai topped AED8 billion during the second quarter compared with AED7 billion in the previous quarter, according to DubaiFocus, a product by Reidin.com in partnership with RERA and Dubai Land Department, which is an encouraging sign.

But nobody knows when mortgage companies such as Amlak and Tamweel will return to the market –together, they have 50% of the freehold property market tied up – and funding is the cornerstone of any real estate industry. 

“Clearly we’re still in a global recession – and need to manage our expectations accordingly. The general picture will be a lot clearer after Ramadan – whether expatriates have indeed returned after the summer break, with their families, alone or not at all,” commented Nimer.

“In my opinion, Dubai and Abu Dhabi now have built up a momentum – albeit one that’s stuttered in recent months – but the ripple effect will be felt most acutely in the outlying Emirates,” he added. 

“It’s no secret many projects in the Northern Emirates are being radically modified, due to investor worries and issues surrounding power supplies. Uncertainty also surrounds some other projects there – and neither can fall back on leases with any real confidence, with ‘negotiable’ rents in many areas of Dubai,” concluded Nimer.


Photo caption: Mohammed Nimer, CEO of MAG Group Property Development


----------



## cayman1

A question , now is easy to sell an office under construction in BB or not ?


----------



## FARIBA

HI MIKEMUZ,

Have you or anyone elsse got a new email from memon again regarding the finance insurace payment?i just received it today after i already told them this isn't mandetory so i'm not interested and the person i spoke with said no is not just email me that you are not interested which i did .

now i got a new email including i must pay by 15 of sept and they are asking for utilities connection and pre regestration fee and the last one is funy PARKING. 

i alreaday have a free parking space are they going to charge me for that too?

any advice i'm going crazy with memom the ct4 hasn't reached the first floor yet.


----------



## Imre

cayman1 said:


> A question , now is easy to sell an office under construction in BB or not ?


impossible


----------



## High Times

^^

Maye a swap for some Pakistani tea. :cheers:


----------



## iamici

I note Zen tower in the Marina is being advertised at 680 aed. 

Sounds very keen price to me. But can someone tell me what the quality of the tower, location in the marina is like ? 2000 sqft apartment in the marina for 1.5 million sounds pretty reasonable to me, so I guess its an awful location and built out of cardboard ?

Any opinions ?


----------



## sidxb

Cayman said:


> ^^
> I have had similar difficulties trying to withdraw sizeable amounts form Emirates bank, but I guess it is more to do with them being disorganised, rather than a liquidity issue.
> 
> In the big scheme of things, the amounts I was trying to withdraw were negligible.


Its to do about cash management at banks and nothing to do with liquidity or being disorganized. Branches always keep certain amount depending on size of there business , another bigger amounts they send to there main offices. Main offices would keep certain amounts and above certain amounts they would also deposit it with central bank.

I came to know about this from a friend in banking and apparently this is done for better cash management depending on business size as well as security. You would not see armed guards , high security at many smaller branches and if you notice cash movement is quite different from the high guarded way its done in london.


----------



## cayman1

Imre, if i understand i need to wait the completation to sell my offices , if the market dont improve , i hope in 2010


----------



## 9714

^^me too. have left my number on their website in response to a good deal, only to have them call back and say it was a mistake but would i be interested in something else (more expensive, obviously, and less good of a deal). 

real chancers!


----------



## dirtyharry1

Can confirm that, they are a bunch of cheating wankers. Unfortunately not the only ones. I was hoping that the property collapse washes away some of them.


----------



## Pleth

"*Emaar waives fees to spur property sales*
Angela Giuffrida

Last Updated: September 10. 2009 7:52PM UAE / 

Burj Views tower in Downtown Burj Dubai in Dubai. Prices in parts of Downtown Burj Dubai have slid in the past the 12 months after surging 88 per cent in one year up to last September. Pawan Singh / The National
Emaar hopes its offer to waive maintenance fees for a year will help it to sell empty new homes on the site of the world’s tallest tower.

Buyers of apartments in the Downtown Burj Dubai development will not be charged maintenance fees for the first year of ownership as the company tries to revive sales in the community, where prices have fallen by about 30 per cent since the peak of the market last year.

Investors will also benefit from access to mortgages of up to Dh2.5 million (US$681,000) for completed property across areas of the development including The Old Town, The Old Town Island, The Residences, Burj Views and South Ridge, as part of Emaar’s Ramadan package...."

And there is more in The National: http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090910/BUSINESS/709109944


----------



## paul66

*Dubai Metro*

Just been on the Metro... absolutely amazing experience, much better than I expected. This beats the living daylights out of the dirty Northern Line I used to take daily (London Underground). The stations are like Dubai's airports! All I can say is WOW!
:applause:

Paul


----------



## montranieri

dubai property market is still in negative trend . Till we do not reach the bottom and price stable or slightly improving, investors will not enter in the market. Only endusers at the moment. Not enough to give momentum to the market.

Regarding the metro, maybe it was better to have more stations opened and more services ready than opening in rush. I personally do not want to loose my time risking to go to to a closed station or sweating to reach one of them. Metro is one of the key factors for the future of the property market in Dubai and no mistake is allowed this time.


----------



## TerryPop

montranieri said:


> dubai property market is still in negative trend . Till we do not reach the bottom and price stable or slightly improving, investors will not enter in the market. Only endusers at the moment. Not enough to give momentum to the market.
> 
> Regarding the metro, maybe it was better to have more stations opened and more services ready than opening in rush. I personally do not want to loose my time risking to go to to a closed station or sweating to reach one of them. Metro is one of the key factors for the future of the property market in Dubai and no mistake is allowed this time.


2 things:

1, I think we are bouncing along the bottom right now- we are basically there- with things like unsellable offices, low liquidity for any sort of purchases & tertiary developments now dead in the water.


*2, I think the lift off from the bottom will go hand in hand with the introduction of a decent mortgage product into the market.*

If there was a 3% mortgage product in this market, it would be like a massive invitation to investors to come back in & revive the market.

Contraction of the UAE population into Dubai from other emirates has meant suitable developments are renting at realistic prices (and have demand).

At 3 to 4 % myself and many others like me can get buying and covering our costs through rents. :banana:


----------



## True Blue

This is what Dubai will have to compete with to attract investors. No money down and guaranteed returns;

http://email.rightmove.co.uk/interface/external_view_email.php?B819018915712095453324534269

State of the Art Development 
Leaseback scheme 
Prices 49% below sold out phase 1 
Properties fully furnished and fully managed!- No maintenance fees or responsibilities 
9 Year Rental Guarantee at 5.5% index linked so increases 
VAT paid by the developer 
2 weeks personal use per annum 
6% Cash Back -Making this better than a No Money Down Deal- and an additional one year’s rent paid in advance! 
100% finance available (subject to status) 
Total investment £6,000. All legal and mortgage broker costs covered

PROPERTY FEATURES;
Pool, Spa, Massage, Gym 
Ice Rink 
Sound-proofed Professional Recording Studio and Nightclub 
20 Boutiques 
Bars and Restaurants 
Conference Center 

Scuba Diving Pool 
Satellite T.V and Broadband Internet 
Zen garden and Games spaces for children 
Large terrace in open space above Pool with forest views 
Cinema....the list goes on!


----------



## Imre

*Metro 'could lift rent by up to 10 per cent' *

September 11, 2009 

The price of property near Dubai Metro stations could command a premium of up to 10 per cent as the mass transit system draws more people off the roads.

People looking for homes will consider its proximity and access to public transport as the city shifts away from its reliance on private cars.

Rents have already witnessed a marginal rise, but the possible impact of the Metro is still speculative, industry analysts told Emirates Business.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...9112009_c725dfd7ed514e5f9a8c66ca46dda5b8.aspx


----------



## biyadoo

Jebalali village in Dubai was once home to 300 families. 

It now lies vacant - they were evicted to make way for a new development, but when the recession kicked in those plans were put on hold. 

The BBC's Ben Thompson has spoken to two people in Dubai for whom the property slump has proved disastrous. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8249313.stm


----------



## 9714

TB

looks like a pro setup. well put together. 

5.5% will not even cover half a mortgage, though, or are european mortgages that cheap...?

saw 1 beds for around 120k euros.


----------



## driverpete

"This is what Dubai will have to compete with to attract investors. No money down and guaranteed returns;

http://email.rightmove.co.uk/interfa...95453324534269

State of the Art Development 
Leaseback scheme 
Prices 49% below sold out phase 1 
Properties fully furnished and fully managed!- No maintenance fees or responsibilities 
9 Year Rental Guarantee at 5.5% index linked so increases 
VAT paid by the developer 
2 weeks personal use per annum 
6% Cash Back -Making this better than a No Money Down Deal- and an additional one year’s rent paid in advance! 
100% finance available (subject to status) 
Total investment £6,000. All legal and mortgage broker costs covered

PROPERTY FEATURES;
Pool, Spa, Massage, Gym 
Ice Rink 
Sound-proofed Professional Recording Studio and Nightclub 
20 Boutiques 
Bars and Restaurants 
Conference Center 

Scuba Diving Pool 
Satellite T.V and Broadband Internet 
Zen garden and Games spaces for children 
Large terrace in open space above Pool with forest views 
Cinema....the list goes on! "

Many leaseback schemes in France are failing.They sound like the ideal investment but there are many problems.I've got one.If you're interested in leasebacks, read the forum on www.frenchleaseback.net


----------



## Jeroen45

TerryPop said:


> 2 things:
> 
> 1, I think we are bouncing along the bottom right now- we are basically there- with things like unsellable offices, low liquidity for any sort of purchases & tertiary developments now dead in the water.
> 
> 
> *2, I think the lift off from the bottom will go hand in hand with the introduction of a decent mortgage product into the market.*
> 
> If there was a 3% mortgage product in this market, it would be like a massive invitation to investors to come back in & revive the market.
> 
> Contraction of the UAE population into Dubai from other emirates has meant suitable developments are renting at realistic prices (and have demand).
> 
> At 3 to 4 % myself and many others like me can get buying and covering our costs through rents. :banana:


You forget more than half of transactions are cash settled in Dubai. The old credit bubble won't come back, that's for sure. Some investors can still get cheap loans from abroad and use the money to buy property in Dubai but maybe they need the cash for other things...


----------



## Jeroen45

9714 said:


> TB
> 
> looks like a pro setup. well put together.
> 
> 5.5% will not even cover half a mortgage, though, or are european mortgages that cheap...?
> 
> saw 1 beds for around 120k euros.


On VARIABLE rate you can borrow in Europe at less than 4%, banks here propose this variable rate to young couples without ever mentioning the danger that monthly payments could double in a timespan of 5 years.
Our banking system is totally corrupt.


----------



## Imre

*JLT on track: Seventy buildings ready by 2010 *


September 11, 2009, 23:48


Dubai: Jumeirah Lakes Towers (JLT) will complete work on 70 towers by 2010. The remaining towers will be completed between 2011 and early 2012, Gulf News has learnt.

There are currently 36 towers within the development that are already occupied. 

Fifty towers are scheduled for occupation by the end of the year, Ahmad Bin Sulayem, executive chairman of the Dubai Multi Commodities Centre (DMCC), said.

This figure will increase to 70 by 2010 and the remaining towers will be handed over in 2011 or possibly in the early part of 2012 when the whole development will be complete.

"[For] buildings that are beyond [the] halfway [construction mark], construction work will continue as it doesn't make sense to stop progress and wait for the market to improve," Bin Sulayem told Gulf News. 

Plots designated to private developers have all been sold with the exception of three towers that the DMCC are developing themselves. These are Almas Tower which houses the headquarters of the DMCC, the Gold Tower and the Silver Tower.

The four lakes that are at the root of the JLT project are on track for completion and will be filled by the middle of next year.

The first lake, Zafeer, meaning 'sapphire' in Arabic and keeping in line with the commodities theme of the project, was finished earlier this year.

"Land lakes are a new thing in Dubai so we have taken a lot of extra measures, including... the quality of the lakes' water," Bin Sulayem explained.

The lakes will all be connected to the sea by a pipeline and will be flushed out every 10 days. Construction work on the pipeline is currently underway.

However, it will be difficult to complete the infrastructure work on the lakes' project until some of the private developers finish building their towers.

*In the entire development of 87 towers, only three are not on schedule with the owners of units having to wait a little while longer. *

While construction costs have fallen dramatically, demand is still low.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10348215.html

yes, just a small delays 



Imre said:


>


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> This is what Dubai will have to compete with to attract investors. No money down and guaranteed returns;
> 
> http://email.rightmove.co.uk/interface/external_view_email.php?B819018915712095453324534269
> 
> State of the Art Development
> Leaseback scheme
> Prices 49% below sold out phase 1
> Properties fully furnished and fully managed!- No maintenance fees or responsibilities
> 9 Year Rental Guarantee at 5.5% index linked so increases
> VAT paid by the developer
> 2 weeks personal use per annum
> 6% Cash Back -Making this better than a No Money Down Deal- and an additional one year’s rent paid in advance!
> 100% finance available (subject to status)
> Total investment £6,000. All legal and mortgage broker costs covered
> 
> PROPERTY FEATURES;
> Pool, Spa, Massage, Gym
> Ice Rink
> Sound-proofed Professional Recording Studio and Nightclub
> 20 Boutiques
> Bars and Restaurants
> Conference Center
> 
> Scuba Diving Pool
> Satellite T.V and Broadband Internet
> Zen garden and Games spaces for children
> Large terrace in open space above Pool with forest views
> Cinema....the list goes on!


Which country is this?
No, IMO time-shares are a waste of time... hno:


----------



## cayman1

Adeveloper send me an email : we need the concreting permit to ...... 
but in Dubai is there concreting permit or it told me lie ?


----------



## 9714

^^its not a time share. the buyer is the outright owner. just wonder whether the leaseback is optional or not. the 5.5% fixed return is an issue. they do say it is index linked, which i assume means it is linked to real time value of the property ie. your return escalates as property value increases. nice development nonetheless.


----------



## 9714

cayman, they may be referring the building permit the project gets from the local authority.


----------



## Richard Head

True Blue said:


> This is what Dubai will have to compete with to attract investors. No money down and guaranteed returns;
> 
> http://email.rightmove.co.uk/interface/external_view_email.php?B819018915712095453324534269
> 
> State of the Art Development
> Leaseback scheme
> Prices 49% below sold out phase 1
> Properties fully furnished and fully managed!- No maintenance fees or responsibilities
> 9 Year Rental Guarantee at 5.5% index linked so increases
> VAT paid by the developer
> 2 weeks personal use per annum
> 6% Cash Back -Making this better than a No Money Down Deal- and an additional one year’s rent paid in advance!
> 100% finance available (subject to status)
> Total investment £6,000. All legal and mortgage broker costs covered
> 
> PROPERTY FEATURES;
> Pool, Spa, Massage, Gym
> Ice Rink
> Sound-proofed Professional Recording Studio and Nightclub
> 20 Boutiques
> Bars and Restaurants
> Conference Center
> 
> Scuba Diving Pool
> Satellite T.V and Broadband Internet
> Zen garden and Games spaces for children
> Large terrace in open space above Pool with forest views
> Cinema....the list goes on!


The french leaseback scheme is government sponsored robbery, a good idea that has backfired spectacularly. I know, I have a leaseback apartment near Monaco. Worst investment I ever made, untold hassle and bureaucracy to wade through, and when it all went pear shaped, the french government who are supposed to be promoting this scheme as a great way to promote french tourism, would rather support unscrupulous french "management agents" and screw the investors.

Every property developer, lawyer, leasing agent, and government official in the Cote D'Azur are all in on it and conspiring together to rip off investors. Bastards.:bash:


----------



## TerryPop

Jeroen45 said:


> You forget more than half of transactions are cash settled in Dubai. The old credit bubble won't come back, that's for sure. Some investors can still get cheap loans from abroad and use the money to buy property in Dubai but maybe they need the cash for other things...


I am not sure I follow you?

Yes Dubai sees an extraordinary amount of cash used in purchases. It always did and this may well continue.

And yes, some low interest remortgaging abroad, supported purchases here in Dubai.


But there has never been a mortgage product out in the market that could really kick start a buy to let market tho.:dunno:

Most Dubai mortgages end up costing, in real terms, 10% per annum on the ground.

Instead of being able to buy 10 houses with my 10mill in cash and get them rented out, I am only able to buy two - 

This is what I have to do to ensure rents cover my rediculously high repayments to the bank.:down:


Couldn't a whole new *reason to buy* enter the market with low interest, interest only etc etc mortgages being introduced? 

I would certainly have doubled or trebled what we own here in Dubai as would many others.

Revive the market oke:


----------



## Naz UK

^^ All the above seems like ultra-desperate measures to me, hmmm, but why would the UAE be acting "desperate" if "nothing is wrong" and the economy is doing "fine"?


----------



## Imre

*Report about Iran trying to blow up Burj Dubai not true, top official says *

By Siham Al Najami, Staff Reporter
Published: September 15, 2009, 16:55

Dubai: Major General Khamis Mattar Al Mazeina, Acting Chief of Dubai Police, denied the report in Ma’ariv, an Israeli daily newspaper, about the UAE foiling an attempt by Iran to blow up the tallest building in the world. 

Major General Al Mazeina denied the report that was circulated in a number of Arab and international news agencies following an article published in Ma’ariv about an attempt to blow Burj Dubai, the tallest building in the world. 


http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Police_and_The_Courts/10349070.html

:nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:


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## True Blue

Imre said:


> I met someone yesterday , he said that his friend got a 3 year residence visa last week after bought an apartment in Dubai Marina.
> 
> Its true ?
> 
> Anyone has got a visa nowadays?


How did he get a Visa for 1 apartment when I own 2 apartments and can't even get an ATM card:dunno:


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## Imre

100 % occupation? 

15/September/2009

Atlantis, Palm Jumeirah


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## Philippa C

Naz UK said:


> ^^ All the above seems like ultra-desperate measures to me, hmmm, but why would the UAE be acting "desperate" if "nothing is wrong" and the economy is doing "fine"?


They've been talking about changing the rules on foreign ownership for a few years. I recall reading an article by Sheika Lubna well before the crisis. 

smussuw, are you in favour of this change?????


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## smussuw

lol, of course not. They have dozens of freezones where they can operate freely, no need to open it in all places.

Even the new law will restrict it to some fields only ......


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## Philippa C

Dubai must be the only place in the world where the head of the police comments on ecnomic matters!! Hindsight is a great thing; the police chief is very close to Sh. Mohammed so it's a shame he did not point out the problems of "greed and aggressive lending" when it was happening so something could have been done about it and we'd all have been saved


Real estate lagging behind other sectors
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/09/09/15/10349017.html

"The recovery path of [the] real estate sector is very slow and will not start before the end of 2010," Dubai Police chief Lt General Dahi Khalfan Tamim said at a Ramadan majlis.He identified greed and irresponsible and aggressive lending by banks as the main causes of the economic downturn. The economic slowdown in the UAE is the result of a banking crisis and not real estate, Dubai Police Chief Lt General Dahi Khalfan Tamim said at a Ramadan majlis.


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## dubaiprojects

True Blue said:


> How did he get a Visa for 1 apartment when I own 2 apartments and can't even get an ATM card:dunno:


I think you are mistaken, because I was able to open an account with RBS and operate it using e-banking as well as an ATM. If you like I can refer you to my RO in RBS who can assist you in setting up an account in dubai.
Cheers


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## bizzybonita

Waiting in anticipation for the 'Burj Effect' to show up



With every passing week between now and the year end, the buzz of expectation within the local commercial space will ratchet up by a further few levels.

Put it down to the looming 'Burj Effect', literally and otherwise, as the marketplace exudes a cautious sense of optimism that office rentals would show some signs of a turnaround once the tallest building in the world starts exerting a benign influence. But is this sentiment misplaced?

"As an estimate, rents for commercial space in Burj Dubai could be between Dh350 and Dh600 a square foot," projects Hesham Al Far, CEO of Coldwell Banker's local operations.

The market at large would sure hope the rates to be closer to the higher level, more so after the buffeting office lease rates have been subjected to since the beginning of the year. Even now, companies are showing a marked unwillingness to commit even to the lower rates that are being quoted around, no doubt keeping an eye on the new and substantial office capacities that are to come on stream in the short-term.

But the Burj Dubai, expected to start the handover process before the end of the year, could end up imposing its own dynamic on the marketplace. Granted that the offices in the 160-plus storey structure are certainly not for every other corporate tenant, even then there is no denying the impact it will have on rental trends in its immediate neighbourhood and beyond.

The offices either side of Shaikh Zayed Road currently fetching rents of Dh150 a square foot on average could benefit, in much the same way as the opening of the office block forming part of Emirates Towers did all those years ago. But this time out, will the impact of having a new signature tower, and the tallest at that, be more limited?

Omar Ghani, CEO of Fine & Country, believes this to be the case. "With the increasing level of office space being released over the coming months, we do not feel that the Burj Dubai launch is likely to positively affect rentals in the area too much," he observes.

There are others who think along the same lines. "These days it is proving difficult to get corporate tenants interested in Dh200 to Dh250 a square foot, forget anything above these levels," says the head of commercial leasing at a local real estate services firm.

"While the leasing process for the Burj Dubai offices is still some weeks off, we think the rate would be around Dh500 a square foot. This is gettable, but the Burj Effect, if any, will not extend beyond Business Bay and Downtown Burj Dubai. I certainly do not see the towers on Shaikh Zayed standing to gain anything most of them are older structures and parking remains an issue that is not going to go away soon." The smart investor also seems to be holding his bets. There has been no indication of heightened buying interest for office units during recent weeks, despite prices having softened considerably in the post-boom period.

"Current prices in Burj Dubai for commercial space vary from Dh4,000 to Dh7,000 a square foot. This is slightly higher than the price in 2005 but has dropped from the boom period (when rates hovered well over Dh7,000 and in some instances have had asking rates of even Dh11,000)," says Al Far.

"People are showing very little interest, it should pick up once the tower is ready."

Guess even the Burj Effect has been somewhat dimmed by what the market has gone through since the start of the year.

Residential transactions at Burj Dubai

After an initial run of panic selling when the correction took hold, residential transactions at the Burj Dubai has settled down. Now, market watchers are wondering whether there will be a significant rise in interest as D-Day approaches for the actual handover process to start on the apartments. As such, a good majority of the present owners are inclined not to put their units on the market. Obviously, they have the means to hold on to these prized assets.

Another factor could be that these owners don't see any gains accruing from selling in a down market. "Most of the investors bought during the launch period and have already paid about 60-70 per cent of the payment," says Hesham Al Far, CEO of Coldwell Banker's local operations. "Those who had purchased with the idea of re-selling already sold their properties around two years ago." In the secondary market, the Burj Dubai residences hover between Dh3,000 to Dh5,000 a square foot, which is quite some distance removed from the peak values of Dh7,000 plus prior to the correction. But whatever buying is taking place now is limited to single units. residential transactions at burj dubai .


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## bizzybonita

Dubai's vacation rental market thrives

It has now become amply clear on any search engine that many who buy property in Dubai do so with the purpose of letting it out on a short-term basis.

Apart from the amateur listings on popular portals like Vacation Rentals, Short Stays and Vacations For Rent by Owner, there are several locally spawned agencies dedicated to the task of helping these owners find short-term tenants.

Three factors are precipitating the unexpected growth in Dubai’s vacation rental market. Some owners are doing so as a source of much-needed income.

An intrepid group has not only introduced the concept of ‘house swapping’ into the country, but are doing much more to position it as a trend.

A third, smaller group is renting out their homes merely as a safety measure: the perceived rationale is that if their homes are occupied while they are away on vacation — even if it is by strangers — there is a lesser possibility of it being broken into.

*The web — a database of potential tenants*

The internet has made it remarkably easy for these groups to access a global database of potential tenants, exchange information and conduct transactions.

To quote one Dubai-based website: “If you have luxury Dubai villas that you would like to let, we can attract a rental offer quickly and efficiently.

The process is easy and simple to set up, and allows you to generate revenue in complete security”.

According to the users of these websites, apparently all you need to do is ‘take some decent pictures of your home, list down all the comforts you can provide, and put up a fair price’.
Mather Mathews, a long-time resident, has rented his home to strangers thrice in the last two years. “There are several websites and agencies where you can list your house for rent during a vacation. If the other party is interested, you can even swap your house with the renter — temporarily, of course. It is a great way to have a holiday in comfort in a city of your choice.

“It is a nice, if unconventional, way to make some extra money. And it is comforting to know that your house will be looked after even when you are not living in it.”

*Steep prices*

Apartments in Jumeirah Beach Residence and residences on the Palm top the list of short-term vacation rentals in Dubai. Prices reflect the services on offer.

A well-appointed one-bedroom apartment at JBR is currently listed for a rather steep price of Dh3,339 to Dh6,750 a week, depending on the number of occupants — a claim backed by selling points such as ‘complete sea view, covered car park, free ADSL connection, nanny and maid service available on call’.

An ingenious homeowner has listed what is now deemed usual in gated freehold communities — private pool, garden and BBQ, 24/7 security, quiet and secure environment — but it is in addition to the unusual. He is offering tenants a ‘welcome pack’ consisting of complimentary coffee, tea, milk, bread, butter, marmalade, fresh fruit, bottled water, shampoo, and soap.

This summer has also seen several homeowners adopt short-term letting for a novel reason: they are paranoid that their homes will be broken into when they are away.

Sheela and Tim who live at Arabian Ranches say they put their home up for rent for seven weeks, and they found a renter for five.

“It is worrying to leave a large home untended when you are away for a long time,” Sheela says. “One of our concerns was the upkeep of our garden until we found a part-time gardener, but after we heard some horror stories of burglaries in the city, even that became a cause for concern. More importantly, we collect antiques, and it was alarming to consider the possibility that someone could easily break in and rob us of treasures that we have nurtured over the last 20 years.”

Don’t be foolhardy about security

The couple found a tenant through an agency, who also helped them with financial transactions and provided a list of services that their tenant could use when in Dubai.

“We were lucky that it happened so quickly and smoothly, but we still urge others to consider all aspects of safety/security when they enter into such agreements,” she says.

“It would be foolish to put a thief in your home to avoid thieves, or to lose money in the process of trying to make some.”

Given the spate of ‘summer burglaries’ in Dubai, these homeowners may be less foolhardy and more forewarned. No need for them to panic because the Dubai Police offer free protection services. Their motto remains simple: ‘Have tenant, Have no worry’.


----------



## bizzybonita

Tenants waiting for Dubai's market to head even lower


In what is fast becoming an occupiers’ marketplace, corporate tenants on the lookout for new premises in Dubai have already started rejecting the rental rates that are being offered now.

They believe, and with a good deal of justification on their part, that these are just the exploratory rates being put up by the landlords more in hope than expectation, and that hard bargaining could bring them down even further.


Market watchers affirm that the pace has been slow going for the leasing programmes on recently completed commercial towers in Business Bay and Jumeirah Lakes Towers. Of course, it can be said the onset of summer could have influenced the process, as well as the general uncertainty in the commercial marketplace. Even then, the perception that there is more to the reduced uptake of new office space is entrenching itself.


Robin Teh, valuations and research director at Chesterton International, gives voice to this: “As such there are only a limited number of corporate tenants looking to shift to new premises even at the quite favourable terms that are on offer. They realise that a substantial amount of office stock is going to be ready over the next few months and this could bring additional pressure to bear on the rates on offer.


“Their contention is that the bottom is yet to come in commercial rents, and they could well be right.”


*Risky strategy*


If this scenario comes to pass, how much more will landlords be able to give? At some point, landlords have to decide whether it makes more business sense for them to stick to their rates and expect the market to pick sooner rather than later.

The risk with this strategy is that a significant number of commercial towers will be hitting the market more or less at the same time. Even if the landlords of some of these towers are willing to quote lower rates, this would leave the others with little room to manoeuvre. “As of now, towers in Jumeirah Lakes Towers stand a better chance of attracting a tenant’s interest than, say, in Business Bay because of the much advanced stage of their infrastructure works,” Teh says.


“Corporate tenants are becoming even more finicky about costs these days and any impression that rates, including those for service and maintenance are high, will be detrimental to the landlords’ chances of filling up their properties.”


*The possible trend*


The new office stock will also have to compete with businesses who would rather stick to their existing premises if they are sure of negotiating a better deal for themselves rather than incur the additional cost of relocating to a new place. However, Michael Atwell, regional head at Cushman & Wakefield, reckons that new developments will get more than a look in.


“We expect to see an increase in the number of tenants who will vacate older, poorly constructed buildings in favour of newly completed buildings of better quality, which are often available at lower rents,” he says.

“There will be a flight to quality, with an increase in vacancy among Grade B offices, both new and existing, forcing landlords to look at potential refurbishment and redevelopment scenarios plus increased leasing incentive packages. The softening of the office market has created a number of different dynamics.”


Landlords who are starting out on their leasing programmes for all those new commercial towers will take a lot of heart from Atwell’s projections. Now, only if potential tenants started thinking along similar lines.

*Potential tenants*

With the dynamics changing, everyone realises that landlords will have to play it smart when it comes to making a pitch for commercial tenants. The banking sector is in a bit of a retreat, and consequently will have less to contribute by way of seeking new office premises. So are consumer goods companies.

But are there any sectors bucking the trend? “There is a noticeable increase in activity among small and medium-scale enterprises entering the market for the first time, while legal and accountancy firms are on the lookout for new office premises,” says Robin Teh of Chesterton International. “This implies there is still scope for activity for commercial space in a subdued market.”


----------



## Imre

dubaiprojects said:


> I think you are mistaken, because I was able to open an account with RBS and operate it using e-banking as well as an ATM. If you like I can refer you to my RO in RBS who can assist you in setting up an account in dubai.
> Cheers


He is Scottish and I think he doesnt want to open an account in the RBS (at least not in UAE ),
more safety just in local banks, dont ask why


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## TerryPop

*Dubai World sues French man who made luxury subs*
Jamaica Observer - ‎3 hours ago‎
_DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - A French businessman who made headlines with his story of escaping Dubai under cover of darkness using scuba gear is being ..._

Speaking of strange odours, just want to say I'm really glad they are hitting back at this wannabe, pathetic excuse of a lilly squatting amphibian.

I was wondering how the PR machine would sort this, and its actually a really good comeback.

This guy is a joke, and has been clutching at straws to maintain any near drama in the dullest story of all time.

Scam artist who lifted funds and doesn;t want to repay- **** you.


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## TerryPop

*Offices finally in the news* :banana:


Well it took some time, but the papers seem to be finally picking up on the situation around the corner regarding impending commercial space armeggedon.

Rents falling from 500dhms to 225 dhms a ft2?.... nice try :gaah:

Rents in JLT fetching a mere 100 dhms a ft2?...ahem make that half mate! :nono:

Shiekh Mo, please pick up the phone to the DMCC and tell them to pull their fingers out, and after cleaning them thoroughly, dial the number of a good marketing firm.


JLT hits the market first and needs proper support as a business centre in the new Dubai.

:tyty:


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## Imre

*Dubai Properties Group to Showcase Five Projects at Cityscape*

Staff Report 

16 September 2009 DUBAI — Dubai Properties Group, a subsidiary of government-owned Dubai Holding, will showcase five landmark developments scheduled for handover this year at Cityscape Dubai 2009.

*The featured projects at the Dubai Cityscape will include The Executive Towers and Vision Towers at Business Bay, Shorooq at Mirdiff, Al Waha, and The Villa at Dubailand.*

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...siness_September359.xml&section=business&col=


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## dubaiprojects

*hi*

Came across the following offer from SP.

http://www.selectproperty.com/cms_pages/HorizonSky/yachtbay.php

How is the Yacht Bay project overall? good investment? and whats with the 6 month rental guarantee? will they find a tenant for a 3bed?
cheers


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## camelrider

Dubai = NEVERLAND!!!:wtf:

Just a bunch of CHEATERS all along!:deadthrea


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## paul66

whats the price for this?


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## paul66

*Dubai tipped as long-term only*

Article Date : Tuesday, September 15, 2009

Dubai is starting to offer good prospects for investors who can manage cash purchases - but only as long-term undertakings, an expert has said.

Editor of overseas investor magazine BuyAssociation Paul Collins remarked that the world property market is now improving, although he cautioned that a full recovery has not yet been established.

Referring to Dubai - where the decline in prices slowed down in the second quarter of this year - he stated: "This could be a perfect time to go for it because there will be some amazing offers on new developments that are out there."

However, long-term projects are necessary because it is the sort of economy that sees large booms and busts over shorter periods, Mr Collins asserted.

The expert was speaking after the second quarter report in global property prices by Knight Frank.

It showed that Dubai's property prices dropped by 7.5 per cent in the three months to June, compared with 41 per cent in the first quarter.

Article source: http://www.propertyshowrooms.com/un.../news/dubai-tipped-long-term-only_228221.html


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## tehsin123

1*5:26 16Sep09 -COLUMN-Dubai builds but they don't come: Jonathan Ford
Jonathan Ford is a Reuters columnist. The views expressed are his own -- 
*
By Jonathan Ford 
LONDON, Sept 16 (Reuters) - There is something surreal about the financial crisis that has engulfed Dubai. 
A small desert emirate, without significant hydrocarbon reserves, Dubai finds itself geared to the eyebrows in the midst of a global downturn. Deutsche Bank estimates its external debts at about $74.3 billion. That, for the record, is *107 percent of the emirate's expected 2009 GDP*, or *more than 14 times its government revenues for 2006 *(the latest year for which data is available). 
But it isn't just the extreme leverage that is surreal. Dubai has long borrowed heavily to invest. The real twist comes from the wacky way that Dubai has chosen to invest its borrowed cash. 
True, not all of Dubai's money-making schemes were foolish. The development of DP World, a ports services business, made eminent sense, given the emirate's status as a trade hub. And this has proved reasonably successful. 
But some of its "get rich quick" ideas were about as sound as something out of Gulliver's Travels -- the attempts of the state of Lagado to extract sunbeams from cucumbers, for instance. Into this category one might put the attempt to conjure a financial centre out of the desert, or to build luxury housing on sandbanks in the Arabian Gulf. Or, indeed, the attempt to create a sovereign wealth fund, Istithmar, without having any surpluses to inject into it in the first place. 
Outsiders have long marvelled at this "build it and they will come" approach. Now its shortcomings are becoming clear. Much of Dubai is half-built and they probably won't come. 
Istithmar, for instance, used leverage to pursue an investment strategy built around luxury goods, retail and financial services. It is not hard to see why this has hit the rocks. Istithmar's parent, Dubai World, is in the process of restructuring some $12 billion of the debt it has taken on. 
Predictably, it has been forced into the expedient of trying to sell good assets to fund losses on the toxic ones. However its attempts to hawk part of its $6.6 billion stake in listed DP World to a local private equity firm have thus far proved fruitless as the two sides failed to agree on price. 
How the crisis pans out depends on Dubai's willingness to stand behind the various state-controlled enterprises it has spawned. Thus far it has been willing to do so. But the calls on the emirate's meagre finances (its government revenues were little more $5 billion in 2006) seem relentless. In December it must repay or refinance a $3.5 billion bond taken out by Nakheel, Dubai World's property unit. And the losses from other failed ventures, such as Istithmar's investment in high end U.S. retailer Barneys, are also mounting up. Deutsche Bank reckons it will have to refinance an average of $12.5 billion in external debt between 2010 and 2013. 
To continue to backstop ventures that have lost significant value or may take longer than expected to generate free cashflow, Dubai may be forced to turn for assistance to its cash rich neighbour Abu Dhabi, which has already lent it $10 billion and has provisionally undertaken to provide a further $10 billion of assistance. 
Were this to be sought it might stabilise Dubai's finances, but at a cost. Dubai's ambition to be a financial hub, tourist destination and haven for the world's super rich depended to some extent on its relatively liberal social attitudes. The more dependent the emirate becomes on its conservative neighbour for money, the harder it may be to retain that liberal tinge. 
(Edited by David Evans) 
101750 ] {C}ENDS


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## iownyou

well i think everyone makes mistakes.
i think there are good and bad ideas in dubai and rest of uae. they over built is true and there is to much supply.visa issue needs to be fixed and poeple will come and live in their property and spend money.
but really the bottom line is they should open that dubailand project so more people will come visit and they might stay and if they have good education then they will also come from other countries. i was reading in gulf news today alot of people moving to china. getting a job is easy and getting a visa even easier.i think other arabs mainly would defenetly move to dubai because is nice i lived in egypt for a wile where i was studying arabic and man dont want to tell you about how dangerous crossing the road there is there is no driving law. palestine has problems lebanon yemen so i think those nucle heads would move here.problem now is can we get our money back form the developers. i bought in JLT from first gulf bank and in the contract it says if they delay i am in titled of a full refund is this possible? i was talking to others they said good luck chuck


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## Pleth

If the economy is so bad in Dubai why won't the goverment let the self-financed (rich) people live here? It would be a boom for the economy.

Margaret Thatcher did it in the 80's, all the people who had xx Sterling Pounds could stay in the country.
Just like Dubai talked about granting visa's for people who bought an aparment for 1 million Aed or more.

Self-financed people will benefit the economy so much in Dubai. Otherwise I fear that shopping malls will close down very soon along with many schools etc. hno:


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## BenjiDXB

Philippa C said:


> Pleth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine how many Emiraties are employed by the authorities in the free zones, in the visa departments, at RERA etc.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> I hate to be negative but when we were getting our visas done last time the Asian typists crammed together in a typing pool did all the work checking everything was in order and putting it in the system. We then proceeded to the next section where the Emirati staff in their plush chairs had the arduous task of, you guessed it, stamping the documents.
> 
> 
> 
> :lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> I love you, Philippa C
Click to expand...


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## Cyrus55

BenjiDXB said:


> Philippa C said:
> 
> 
> 
> :lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> I love you, Philippa C
> 
> 
> 
> Question?
> 
> Wondering if the house prices in the UAE would ever move up again? From every single corner of the world you hear about recovery, whereas in the UAE you still hear about continued fall of both house prices and rents.hno:
Click to expand...


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## iownyou

listen i live in california where the credit crunch started they were giving loans to people without jobs i was working in the loan business before and i am one of those cruks why you think i hide my money in dubai anyways the prices are still going down here but not as much so recovery..... i think is bull shiiiii,,,,, how can people spend money when there is no jobs is all fake i think to bring the stock markets up so people have confdence again and as people make money in stock markets they will take their money and buy properties because is safer and is cheap now and they wil spend money. do you understand me? is all a games is psycological game


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## iownyou

uae prices not falling as much. because the people who panic sold at the right time"i wish i was one of them" and the rest eather defoulted but not too many because alot of the buyers were cash buyers and the rest they are waiting for the morket to come back so they dont want to sell at a loss


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## smussuw

iownyou said:


> i dont like arab people they are prideful and hard headed.
> i am a muslim convert and these idiots dont do anything as islam says besides their names. they lie and cheat. i wish i listened to my father and never bought property here.


As a Muslim convert did they teach u to generalize against a whole group and call them liars and cheaters? :laugh:


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## Pleth

Cyrus55 said:


> BenjiDXB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question?
> 
> Wondering if the house prices in the UAE would ever move up again? From every single corner of the world you hear about recovery, whereas in the UAE you still hear about continued fall of both house prices and rents.hno:
> 
> 
> 
> The house prices will come up again here once the buyers are allowed to spend time in their new homes = visa's are available.
> 
> However I do NOT think the rest of the world is doing better than Dubai with regards to recovery!
Click to expand...


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## iownyou

i can say this by experience i lived in egypt and saudi arabia and dubai and all arabs are the same but especialy the gulf arabs are the wost. i guess the more sand the worst.
this is general so is not fitna my dear.


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## iownyou

i am telling you. there is no recovery now but there will be starting 2011. first thigs that go up and down are the sock market because is the fastest to buy and sell. so last year stock market crashed in usa and then the rest of the world then property crashed so now stock is going up and then property will go up but again stock market moves fast the economy doesent . in seconds you can be rich and next second poor in the stock market but with property it takes long then that


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## iownyou

is all a big lie the same people that own the news company they own the banks the jews they run the whole show all the actors in america are jewish. so they lie in tv people belive it then the stock market goes up poeple make money and thats how the economy goes in a cirle lies lies lies


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## Mistermark

Pleth said:


> Cyrus55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The house prices will come up again here once the buyers are allowed to spend time in their new homes = visa's are available.
> 
> However I do NOT think the rest of the world is doing better than Dubai with regards to recovery!
> 
> 
> 
> I agree on both counts. Anyone who denies that the Dubai government endorsed residency visas for property purchasers is failing to see the simple truth that every developer's contract was approved by the master developer, and that most of those are owned or part-owned by the Dubai government/ruling family. IMHO the reason for the back-track is that the UAE government overrode the Dubai administration for reasons we can only speculate about. Let's hope they have a rethink soon.
> 
> As for recovery, I think the downturn hit Dubai more than most countries because they didn't have the option of effectively mortgaging tomorrow's taxpayers by using future tax receipts to stimulate the economy. But the flipside of this is that their economy won't be subject to the drag of heavy taxation that will slow most Western economies for the next decade or so.
Click to expand...


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## abf

*Visas*



Pleth said:


> Cyrus55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The house prices will come up again here once the buyers are allowed to spend time in their new homes = visa's are available.
> 
> However I do NOT think the rest of the world is doing better than Dubai with regards to recovery!
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed - Unless the authorities can honor the commitments made via the state developers/sub developers the confidence in the UAE market will be shadowed
Click to expand...


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## agod

iownyou said:


> is all a big lie the same people that own the news company they own the banks the jews they run the whole show all the actors in america are jewish. so they lie in tv people belive it then the stock market goes up poeple make money and thats how the economy goes in a cirle lies lies lies



Daer, Dear, first the Arabs, now the Jews, how do you feel about the Mormons?

Alan


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## tehsin123

iownyou said:


> i am telling you. there is no recovery now but there will be starting 2011.


If you are referring to real-estate recovery, just sleep for a while, its not gonna comeback anytime sooner. It may go another 40-50% down from current levels to make investors even look at it. Am I a pessimist? so be it, if it is a practical anticipation.


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## bjassin

iownyou said:


> i can say this by experience i lived in egypt and saudi arabia and dubai and all arabs are the same but especialy the gulf arabs are the wost. i guess the more sand the worst.
> this is general so is not fitna my dear.


Actually, it has nothing to do with Arabs or with sand. I think the biggest problem witht he Gulf region has to do with a dysfunctional culture. How can it be that in an entire population every single person is expected to be a 'manager'? How can it be that manual labor is looked down on? 

I mean, why aren't there any Emirati or Saudi electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc. There used to be--before oil wealth changed their cultures for the WORST. It's not natural or normal or sustainable to live in a culture where the ENTIRE population of a country thinks that they can be 'managers'.

A 'good' job should be viewed as any type of work you can do that is honest and useful. However, many people in the Gulf region would rather be unemployed and sit around waiting for a 'management' job than actually do any kind of manual labor. It's actually quite unbelievable. Kind of disgusting also.

The best thing that can happen to this region is for the oil wealth to disappear. It has done nothing but make a few 'rulers' extremely rich and enabled them to pay off their population in order to look away from their corruption. It has also created a society filled with a lot of useless people. Very sad and depressing actually.

BJ


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## jagmp

nothing wrong in expecting to be managers.if they have intellingence skill education experience and exposure to be the one.which i doubt all of them have.


----------



## iownyou

hahah
1st-agod if you take a look at http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ you will know what i am talking about please watch this carefully and dont rush throu it.

2nd-tehsin123 i dont think your right because if people are not desperete to sell why would they? and what is giving you this conclusion? i belive your wrong because that would make properties for free. listen there is no such thing. dubai is a beautiful city nice infrastrocture and new buildings i think many would want to go and live there and is safe much safer then america and europe i think. and many corporations would open up office there because no income tax they could save millions per year. i think the idea od dubai is a good solid idea but is going to take some time to clean up the mess and for it be a real city . now the metro is in place and alot of the projects will get done in the next year so things will start to look nice and it will start to look like a liveble place.


----------



## Philippa C

ckm said:


> No offence, but you must be kidding. The world will end the day we see a blue-collar Emirati worker. ^^


I'm just imagining a new clothing line of dish dashas/abayas with blue collars:lol:


----------



## Morrismarina

Can I just clarify, there is currently no property ownership visa WHATSOEVER available at the present time ?? The 3 Year visa has been scrapped and the new 6 Month visa has not yet been introduced. So there is NO VISA at all based on property ownership at the present time. In other words "bugger all". That's unbelievable. hno:


----------



## bizzybonita

really Dubai is the best even in dropping time such rubbish investors heater talking blah blah about the superiors of this country and want to be a part of this country for long term .... you're behaviors should be also to be invest in good side too , otherwise some investors here need to be underground for life ...that's really the big disadvantage for this boom alot of rubbish investors mind want to be so classy for nothing LOL .... cut the crappish rubbish thing in here ...


----------



## iamici

Morrismarina said:


> Can I just clarify, there is currently no property ownership visa WHATSOEVER available at the present time ?? The 3 Year visa has been scrapped and the new 6 Month visa has not yet been introduced. So there is NO VISA at all based on property ownership at the present time. In other words "bugger all". That's unbelievable. hno:



First, they chop the 60 days, (which was actually 2/3rd of what I d be happy with), visit visa to 30 days and then they abolish the 3 year visa ?


Yet, they will allow me to circumvent it by doing visa runs in perpetuity ?

Where is the joined up thinking ? 

Moron government, then again I speak as a citizen of Gordonia, so what the hey!


----------



## iamici

leaky visa regulations, no aircon, moron government, fascist police.


----------



## bizzybonita

^^ do you think this gulf area so ready in security part and don't you think the real estate sector could be one of the main concern part of security of country... 

it's not that easy ...


----------



## bizzybonita

deleted.


----------



## agod

bizzybonita said:


> really Dubai is the best even in dropping time such rubbish investors heater talking blah blah about the superiors of this country and want to be a part of this country for long term .... you're behaviors should be also to be invest in good side too , otherwise some investors here need to be underground for life ...that's really the big disadvantage for this boom alot of rubbish investors mind want to be so classy for nothing LOL .... cut the crappish rubbish thing in here ...



What did he just say:bash:

Bizzy, stick to cutting and posting, it makes more sense.:cheers:

I ahve just taken my pills:nuts:

Al


----------



## Morrismarina

bizzybonita said:


> ^^ do you think this gulf area so ready in security part and don't you think the real estate sector could be one of the main concern part of security of country...
> 
> it's not that easy ...


Yes I agree with you Bizzy. :nuts:


----------



## iamici

What range will values in the marina and JLT and business bay settle at ?

I m sure we all have our views. 

But what are values in the Marina, JLT and Business Bay at the moment ? 

Smussuw, please feel free to let me know that it is none of my business, as I am but a useless dirty foreigner who gives nothing to your country and just acts so inconsiderately .......


----------



## Opus 2009

The negative publicity about Dubai in the U.S. is just incredible, not giving a visa to that tennis player was one of them. I find it offensive considering how long it has been my home and how untrue the generalisations really are,regardless of the fact that a few things might have gone amiss. Earlier people wanted to talk to you about the great islands being built, and the tallest building in the world. Now the conversations are all about whatever is being reported in the press.


----------



## Opus 2009

agod said:


> What did he just say:bash:
> 
> 
> 
> Al


it is "she"


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*Investors give Dubai a boost*

Unfolding efforts by Dubai to restructure its corporate holdings and manage an estimated US$85 billion (Dh312.2bn) in debt appear to be winning the confidence of investors, judging from prices for the emirate’s bonds.

Dubai Government bonds, which have been rising steadily since last month, continued to climb last week after news that the Government-owned conglomerate Dubai World had shifted assets and executives from the developer Nakheel to its investment arm, Istithmar World.

The moves sent yields on Dubai’s sovereign bonds to their lowest point this year and pushed the cost of insuring Dubai’s debt down to its lowest since this time last year.

To some extent, Dubai is benefiting from surging investor interest in emerging-market assets around the world. Signs of a global economic recovery and concerns about the health of the US dollar have triggered a wave of investment back into the furthest corners of the globe.

“Everyone across the board has benefited from this rally,” said Jason Rogers, a director of credit research at Barclays Capital in Singapore. “It’s the return of risk appetite and stability of fundamentals.”

The improving performance of Dubai’s debt also appears to indicate ebbing investor concern about the ability of the Government and the companies it controls to service debts racked up during the boom that ended with the global financial crisis last September.

Those debts eventually grew to exceed the size of Dubai’s economy. As recently as July, investors considered Dubai a higher risk than either Kazakhstan or Lithuania, judging from the price of credit-default swaps on its bonds. The cost of insuring all three countries’ bonds has dropped considerably alongside recovering liquidity and improving global prospects, but Dubai’s by relatively more than the others. Dubai is now considered by investors only slightly more likely to default than Lebanon, according to a comparison of swap data by the London-based credit information specialist CMA.

That is a far cry from mid-February, when the financial crisis was raging and the cost of Dubai credit-default swaps rose sharply with concerns about the health of the emirate. Property prices in Dubai have fallen by at least 30 per cent from their peak a year ago, according to statistics from the Dubai Land Department compiled by Reidin.com.

In late February, Dubai sold $10bn in bonds to the Central Bank, the proceeds of which its Department of Finance has been using to help Government-controlled companies pay contractors and creditors.

In July, Dubai announced the formation of a financial support fund to manage the disbursement and recovery of those rescue funds, and to oversee the issue of a second $10bn in bonds.

Bankers in Dubai have said the Central Bank’s $10bn loan undoubtedly came with certain conditions concerning which companies should receive funding and under what circumstances. One condition typical of such restructurings is that recipients of bailout money undergo sometimes painful cuts to trim costs and raise cash.

Dubai Holding, which manages the personal wealth of Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid, Vice President of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, has already begun consolidating its two investment arms, Dubai International Capital and Dubai Group, as well as its property divisions, as a prelude to an eventual merger with the partly Government-owned developer Emaar.

But even more painful restructuring may be in store at Dubai World, which recently disclosed that, between its own debts and those of its subsidiaries, it faced roughly $60bn in consolidated liabilities.

One of the earliest and highest hurdles will be how to pay off the roughly $4.05bn that will be due to Nakheel bondholders in December. The bonds are guaranteed by Dubai World.

Nakheel’s bonds have rallied in recent weeks because of optimism that Nakheel and Dubai World will be able to count on Government funding if they come up short. The bonds climbed as high as 103, representing a 10 per cent discount to what they are due to pay when they mature on December 14.

The bonds slipped back last week to 102 after news that Dubai World was shifting property assets valued at billions of dirhams from Nakheel to Istithmar World.

While evidence of progress in Dubai buoyed its debt, the opposite was true in Abu Dhabi, whose sovereign bonds have been slipping. Last week Fitch Ratings reaffirmed Abu Dhabi’s credit rating, but said the Central Bank’s holding of Dubai debt may represent a potential liability for the emirate, whose oil wealth the Central Bank would need to fall back on if Dubai could not repay its $10bn in bonds.

Fitch also said that while Dubai seeks to reduce its debt levels, Abu Dhabi has been borrowing more. Abu Dhabi state-controlled companies have borrowed more than $18bn so far this year, it said.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090922/BUSINESS/709219943/1005


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai property sector last in road to recovery


Although the real estate sector is the first in the country to fuel to the recent economic growth in the country, it is also probably the last in the recovery wheel, said senior government officials.

*The Dubai Police Chief, Lt. Gen. Dahi Khalfan Tamim*, said that the recovery path of the real estate sector is very slow and will not happen before end of 2010.

According to Tamim, greed and irresponsibility, coupled with aggressive lending by banks are the main causes of the economic downturn.

"These investing companies focus only on setting up companies and begin collecting profits and do not care about anything else," he added.

Tamim explained that several of the UAE companies lack risk-management mechanism, and hence, they failed to manage the downturn.

The Director-General of Department of Economic Development, Sami Al Qamzi, said that this is a year of challenges and hence it is very difficult to pinpoint a time for recovery. However, the property sector may not start recovery process before end of 2010. But, the growth in retail sector, which constitutes 38 percent of UAE economy, has already begun and is very fast.

He explained that 30 percent of real estate market is real, while 70 percent is speculation. But with the market correction, majority of market will turn real. After 2006, the economic growth in GCC and particularly in real estate sector has been unrealistic. There are several projects and the market requires time to absorb them. The real estate sector will be at the end of the recovery path.

With the support of government coupled with good management, economic recovery will happen, although at a slow pace, he added.

Dubai Government officials too, blamed bankers for the current economic crisis, and said that their aggressive and irresponsible lending has led to the present economic situation.

The wrong policies adopted by banks are the main cause for the growing economic slowdown, which in turn, affected several related sectors, and among them real estate sector was the first, they concluded.

*what make The Dubai Police Chief to say it officially ?* to provide more n more controller for all of you dear investors more n more updates surely will come within next year just for security reasons my guess ...


----------



## iamici

Because the police believe they are running the state. 

Lets see.

1/ No vote. 4/ Arrest on suspicion of not being emirati
2/ Mendacious laws. 5/ No trial, no rights.
3/ Morons in charge of policy. 6/ Police watching you.

Yep, seems they are right, they are running the state.


----------



## Arno Salzl

Pleth said:


> Cyrus55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> However I do NOT think the rest of the world is doing better than Dubai with regards to recovery!
> 
> 
> 
> China: 1.330.000.000 inhabitants
> Stock market Shanghai: + 64,7 % since 1.1.09
> GDP, Q2 2009 (y2y): +7,9%
> GDP, 2009, estim, +8,1%
> House price indicator: Q2 2009 on a year earlier: + 1,0%
> 
> I call it a huge recovery for an important population's part of this world!
Click to expand...


----------



## bizzybonita

iamici said:


> Because the police believe they are running the state.
> 
> Lets see.
> 
> 1/ No vote. 4/ Arrest on suspicion of not being emirati
> 2/ Mendacious laws. 5/ No trial, no rights.
> 3/ Morons in charge of policy. 6/ Police watching you.
> 
> Yep, seems they are right, they are running the state.


:lol: in other word , not because of your'e money as investor they will treat you as local nothing above it .... only welcoming for your'e second home not in level of emotion ,remember we are in business at the end dear investor so keep the business running.


----------



## iamici

bizzybonita said:


> :lol: in other word , not because of your'e money as investor they will treat you as local nothing above it .... only welcoming for your'e second home not in level of emotion ,remember we are in business at the end dear investor so keep the business running.


I agree 100 % with you. 

Bongle wod because of the stratagem including a middle asia ****** lies by skirt wearing due to market forces and white silk second.


----------



## bizzybonita

^^Real estate exec sent Eid messages hours before murder

A Dubai-based real estate executive murdered in New York had sent Eid wishes to friends just hours before she was killed, it was reported on Tuesday.

Lawyer Steve Beher, a friend of Andree Bejjani, better known as Sara, said her last Facebook entry wished her friends a happy Eid.

“That’s just the kind of person she was. It didn’t matter who you were, she was open-minded and a really good person,” said Beher in comments published by 7Days.

Bejjani, 44, found strangled with a bread knife in her neck in a 10th-floor condo at the Jumeirah Essex House in Manhattan, New York on Saturday.

Housekeeping manager at the Essex House Derrick Praileau, 29, has been charged with second-degree murder and is currently in police custody.

Beher told 7Days that he last received an email from Bejjani last week in which she commiserated with him for failing to win a seat on New York city council and asking why she hadn’t heard from him in 24 hours.

“You are silent, please don’t be sad,” she wrote.

Bejjani travelled regularly between Dubai and New York and encouraged wealthy Gulf residents to invest in the US in her role as vice-president of property investment company Carlton Advisory Services.

Bejjani ran her own company, Royal Investments in Dubai before joining the US-based Carlton Advisory Services, a property investment firm, last year as vice president.

“*She* was a beautiful, smart woman,” Beher told the paper. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/568253-real-estate-exec-sent-eid-message-hours-before-murder

i know a lot of angry investors right here iam one of them but every things delayed here for good :cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

Opus 2009 said:


> it is "she"


yea yea it was she hno:


----------



## dubaimat

bizzybonita said:


> Dubai property sector last in road to recovery
> 
> The Director-General of Department of Economic Development, Sami Al Qamzi, said that this is a year of challenges and hence it is very difficult to pinpoint a time for recovery. However, *the property sector may not start recovery process before end of 2010. But, the growth in retail sector, which constitutes 38 percent of UAE economy, has already begun and is very fast.*
> 
> He explained that 30 percent of real estate market is real, while 70 percent is speculation. But with the market correction, majority of market will turn real. After 2006, the economic growth in GCC and particularly in real estate sector has been unrealistic. There are several projects and the market requires time to absorb them. The real estate sector will be at the end of the recovery path.
> 
> *With the support of government coupled with good management, economic recovery will happen, although at a slow pace, he added.*


1) I wonder where those fancy numbers originate from ....the retail sector constitutes 38 percent of the UAE economy? 
Most be the same oracle predicting the traffic on Sheikh Zayed Road coming down by 17 percent because of the Metro.

2) ....coupled with good management, is this referring to those local companies selling expensive 3 years residence visas to hookers in Bur Dubai and Deira? hno:hno:hno:


----------



## tehsin123

iownyou said:


> hahah
> 
> 2nd-tehsin123 i dont think your right because if people are not desperete to sell why would they? and what is giving you this conclusion? i belive your wrong because that would make properties for free. listen there is no such thing. dubai is a beautiful city nice infrastrocture and new buildings i think many would want to go and live there and is safe much safer then america and europe i think. and many corporations would open up office there because no income tax they could save millions per year. i think the idea od dubai is a good solid idea but is going to take some time to clean up the mess and for it be a real city . now the metro is in place and alot of the projects will get done in the next year so things will start to look nice and it will start to look like a liveble place.


Some people are already desperate to sell, and chances are that more will become desperate in near future, considering the burden of loans they 've got for these assets. Not everyone can run out leaving behind losses. Sooner or later you have to accept the fact that buying decision was wrong, lets move on with our lives.
What makes you think it is safer than America? How many people in America or europe have lost because of false promises or sponsored hypes? none.
Tax free? Yes they don't call it taxes here but maintanence charges. Do you know how much we have to pay on just 1 b/r apartment as a maintanence charge to Nakheel or Emaar? It is 10 times more (with no upside limit) than Canada and US.
So lets come down to this globe and think real. A lovely 3 B/R apartment (about 1800 sqf) in Canada or US can be bought for $ 250,000, why should it cost twice as much here? Thats my logic


----------



## iamici

So it is the dodgy iranians fault.


----------



## iamici

Those dodgy Iranians!!!!!


Also lets ban those dodgy muslims !!!


----------



## agod

iamici said:


> For all its faults, finding a condo of 1800 ft with swimming pool, gym, car parking, 4 lifts, a marina, or a CBD, security staff etc is going to be cheaper substantially in Dubai than any other major city YOU ACTUALLY be prepared to live.
> 
> I would like to see evidence to the contrary.
> 
> 
> Ok, so the Emiratis employ police officers who hate all foreigners, only give you 30days visa after you spent a few million dirhams, its hot, its dusty, they censor all their press and the beer is shall we say not conductive to being drunk by anyone but Donald Trump, but a nice condo for 250k $ is something I d be happy to buy in dubai for 1800 ft.


I would like to see evidence to the contrary.



That's easy, Ginn Reunion resort in Celebration, Orlando Florida, (google it, and trip advisor) 3 signature golf courses, Palmer, Watson, and Nicholas, Water Park, Club House, hosted LPGA last 3 years, swimming pools, security, restarurants, etc, etc, 3 bed condo $145.000, advertised in british press not so long ago, giving it away, and many more short sales and foreclousers............


----------



## iownyou

well dont worry gcc countries will be very good in the long run there are few problems here and there but i would live in dubai over america any day cool people nice personalities not as evil as here in america curupted. europeans and asians are much nicer people cleaner and more classy. it will all be ok inshalla


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*DFM to cross 2500 by year end*

As many as 13 stocks on the Abu Dhabi and Dubai stock markets made their 2009 highs during the last trading session before Eid, with benchmark indices trading at close to their year's high. 

Analysts expect the indices to rise by another 13 to 18 per cent by the end of the year. "The past two weeks in the local markets have demonstrated an appetite for risk-taking and we can clearly see money flowing back into the markets from foreigners," said Sleiman Aboul Hosn, Investment Analyst – Research Department, Prime Emirates Securities Brokerage.

The Abu Dhabi Securities Exchange (ADX) benchmark index in fact ended Ramadan at its 2009 high (3100.5 points), and with eight stocks on the bourse marking the year's highest price-point during the pre-Eid session. The Dubai Financial Market (DFM) index, on the other hand, ended the holy month at 2127.62, a mere 3.2 per cent below its 2009 high of 2198.31 recorded on June 14.

Additionally, another eight UAE stocks, including benchmark Emaar Properties, are very close to their year's high, closing the previous trading session at less than two per cent below their 2009 high.

"Buying has been very strong with the ADX leading the way with a rise above 3000 and is still going strong. Continued strength in the Abu Dhabi benchmark can drive it to as high as 3500 points by the end of the year," he said.

The eight ADX stocks to end the Ramadan rally on their 2009 high include banking heavyweights Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank, National Bank of Abu Dhabi, National Bank of Fujairah and Union National Bank, besides Agthia Group, Sharjah Insurance and RAK Poultry and Feeding Com?pany. However, the surprise of the lot is Aldar Properties, which is up 188 per cent from the 2009 low it recorded in February. Property stocks, down from their record levels achieved in 2008, are now rallying on global cues.

The five stocks on the DFM that ended the last trading session at year's high were Commercial Bank of Dubai, Aramex, Gulfa, DFM (the index's own listing), and Al Madina (secondary market share). "Despite relative underperformance, the DFMGI picked up from its August low at around 1750 and crossed the key 2000 level," said Aboul Hosn.

"We believe the DFMGI can potentially cross 2500 by the end of the year as sentiment continues to improve on the back of strong oil prices and positive influence from a global market recovery, which is currently taking shape," he added.

The eight stocks that are within the two per cent range of their 2009 high include Emaar Properties, Arabtec Holding, Dubai Islamic Bank and Air Arabia on the DFM, and Abu Dhabi Islamic Bank, RAK Ceramics, Emirates Insurance Company and Gulf Pharmaceuticals (Julphar) on the ADX.

On the flip side, however, there are 14 stocks – nine on the DFM and five on the ADX – that are trading at their 2009 lows even though a majority of them are part of the secondary listings and are usually low-volume, inactive shares.

The big question remains whether the current rally will sustain itself once markets are past absorbing the positive global news and start looking at the fundamentals again. "Whether or not Q3 results meet or exceed expectations will also play a key role in determining whether the current wave is sustainable or not," said Aboul Hosn.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...9232009_cd39ef0df26e43d588e86252565125a0.aspx


----------



## iamici

agod said:


> I would like to see evidence to the contrary.
> 
> 
> 
> That's easy, Ginn Reunion resort in Celebration, Orlando Florida, (google it, and trip advisor) 3 signature golf courses, Palmer, Watson, and Nicholas, Water Park, Club House, hosted LPGA last 3 years, swimming pools, security, restarurants, etc, etc, 3 bed condo $145.000, advertised in british press not so long ago, giving it away, and many more short sales and foreclousers............


Celebration, Orlando ?


Come on now that is not civilised America is it. I meant major Metropoli. I can just see Boss Hogg on the cross-roads waiting for me when I enter Celebration.


----------



## agod

iamici said:


> Celebration, Orlando ?
> 
> 
> Come on now that is not civilised America is it. I meant major Metropoli. I can just see Boss Hogg on the cross-roads waiting for me when I enter Celebration.



You obvisously dont no, Orlando is a city of 1.6 million people, and has plenty more commerce going on than just Disney, and the 40 million, or was it 70 million visitors a year Florida gets.

Anyway, how about Las Vegas, or Houston, or California, are they hick towns, there plenty of other cities in the US with Condo's under your $250.000 for sale that meet your criteria.

Alan


----------



## iamici

agod said:


> You obvisously dont no, Orlando is a city of 1.6 million people, and has plenty more commerce going on than just Disney, and the 40 million, or was it 70 million visitors a year Florida gets.
> 
> Anyway, how about Las Vegas, or Houston, or California, are they hick towns, there plenty of other cities in the US with Condo's under your $250.000 for sale that meet your criteria.
> 
> Alan


I m not too knowledgeable about America, but the only people I know in California have a house worth millions and it is not a cheap area. In a country the size of america I do believe you will be able to get something for 250k but in the main I think it ll be costing you for any equivalence in quality and location. Maybe I m wrong in which case Dubais prices can keep on collapsing, I ll just buy a three bedroom to replace my 1 bed. Am I bothered ?


----------



## agod

Well I am, as I own properties there, and get bombarded by Realtors from all over the country, with homes going for silly prices, your generalisation about any other major city that you would be prepared to live, which is not true, Celebration is a well known Disney town, and people flock there to live, and the standard of workmanship is high, beter than Dubai, thats for sure.

ALan


----------



## iamici

agod said:


> Well I am, as I own properties there, and get bombarded by Realtors from all over the country, with homes going for silly prices, your generalisation about any other major city that you would be prepared to live, which is not true, Celebration is a well known Disney town, and people flock there to live, and the standard of workmanship is high, beter than Dubai, thats for sure.
> 
> ALan


Ok I m happy to accept you know more. Not prepared to travel to america though, so would be more impressed if you did the same for europe. I didnt think construction was bad in Dubai, compared to UK anyhow.


----------



## 9714

îs celebration in orlando or is it a separate town?


----------



## agod

iamici said:


> Ok I m happy to accept you know more. Not prepared to travel to america though, so would be more impressed if you did the same for europe. I didnt think construction was bad in Dubai, compared to UK anyhow.


Ha, Ha, what city would you like, Berlin, London, Prague, Budapest........though I dont know much about Manila, which I am sure you could educate me on, is where you live near the Trinoma Mall.



ALan


----------



## agod

9714 said:


> îs celebration in orlando or is it a separate town?


Yes it's seperate, all the Disney parks are south of Orlando, about 15 miles, Celebration was built by Disney, and is all white picket fences, and home town USA, it has a reputation of being "the" place to live, especially for the kids, at Christmas they even have fake snow blowing in the streets, that kind of thing..........

Most people think of as Orlando is where Disney is at, but it is in fact in a place called Kissimmee about 18 miles south of Orlando, and is also classed as Celebration, because they share the same zip code, so when you rent my Vacation home orm me in Kissimmee, I tell you it is only a couple of miles from Disney, and as this is a Dubai thread, it thousands of milea way, on the other side of the world. 

ALan


----------



## luv2bebrown

funny enough ive actually spent a few days in kissimmee (not disney or universal or even orlando proper!)


----------



## iamici

I pick Budapest! Compare and contrast to Dubai!

Condo prices in a central spot!


----------



## Mistermark

OK, some really good European cities where a 3-bed apartment can be yours for around $250k or less:

Berlin
Lyon
Krakow


----------



## Grubbman

Why are you all comparing other cities to Dubai? Dubai is completely unique and an inspiring place to visit and probably live. Two years ago nobody was moaning about prices etc...and if one keeps a long term attitude the growth of your investment will most probably outperform all the above mentioned places. Its just going through a slump at present. Every city is unique in its own respect and you either like things about the city or not. Dont give a toss if I can buy something in Krakow for 250K what am I going to do there in the winter besides freeze my chops off... 
Agod you obviously know your stuff but I´d rather holiday in the Tora Bora caves than spend a week in a mock up town near a Disney resort, probably a great investment and fun for the kids blah blah but not for everyone. Good luck with it!


----------



## noir-dresses

DFM is on fire today


----------



## iamici

No need to be so proud of your handiwork Noir!

God, children and matches!


Ps What is Berlin like, I dont fancy krakow or lyon.


----------



## Mistermark

iamici said:


> Ps What is Berlin like, I dont fancy krakow or lyon.


I'm surprised you don't rate Krakow or Lyon - have you visited them?

Berlin IMO is one of the greatest cities in the world. There's a big open space close to the middle of it (the Tiergarten), and a river, both very pleasant, distinct districts each with their own character, lots of museums, galleries and other public buildings (partly because the East and West each had its own before reunification). It's cosmopolitan, young and positive in atmosphere, with lots of artists, musicians, fashion designers, architects and the like.

The only major negatives are that it's freezing cold in the winter, being a long way east and quite a way north, and there are some pretty dire Soviet-era housing blocks on the outskirts to the east of the city.


----------



## Cyrus55

Ramin777 said:


> I have a few properties in Dubai and also the holding power. Yes, prices are down, rents are down, however, the general mood has changed a lot better since last two months. I'm getting many calls for my finished properties. I'm not gonna sell though.
> If the positive world economy signs are not fake and short-lived then, I anticipate, it would take at least 18 months before we see a positive increase in the prices of units or rents.
> Some one told me around 75000 middle income people have already left dubai. population influx is a major issue. Visa cae must be resolved ASAP, otherwise any market movement in the positive side would be painfully slow.
> All in all, compared to beginning of the year things have improved a lot here, both in the stcok market and real estate.


What is the best way to let your units? Via agents? What are the most important points to get a good deal? Your advice would be appreciated.


----------



## AppleMac

Mistermark said:


> This will lift rental yields - perhaps not to their peak levels, but higher than the current figures (which are themselves better than three months ago).


I doubt that yields will move any higher - the market in Dubai is being kept afloat by people transferring in from other Emirates, Sharjah, Ajman etc. If rental rates move any higher we will return to the scenario we had before where these people couldn't afford to rent in Dubai so will return to outlying Emirates.

Given the extra inventory on the market and also the exodus of high paid workers due to job losses and being replaced by workers on lower salary's, then expecting yields to increase in the foreseeable future is just wishful thinking IMHO.


----------



## Imre

what is the difference between the residence visa if you have property or if you just have a free zone company and do nothing ? just cost more money, thats all, many people doing nothing just keep the company because of the visa. Any kind of people can get just cost money.

I know some African and Chinese people , they have visas because they did a FZE but selling only drugs and fake DVD's 

People are different but I prefer Chefdude lifestyle, still better to live without stress, idiot boss,workers etc.. and just relax ,enjoy the life


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## iownyou

exactly and see people who panic wont get far is people who buy in crisses time who become rich look at apple shares in last 8 months up 300% same for gogle 200% and the rest so poeple who bought at the crisses time made alot of money people who sold lost it all. dont worry hold on to your properies and wait for dubai to become a mature city wait for dubai land to open wait at least 5 more years and you will see pricess will be very very high


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## ryeman

iownyou said:


> exactly and see people who panic wont get far is people who buy in crisses time who become rich look at apple shares in last 8 months up 300% same for gogle 200% and the rest so poeple who bought at the crisses time made alot of money people who sold lost it all. dont worry hold on to your properies and wait for dubai to become a mature city wait for dubai land to open wait at least 5 more years and you will see pricess will be very very high


Your 300% and 200% figures are far more than actual change (more like 100% and 50%) and if you compare the figures when the crisis started to now, both shares are flat!


----------



## Richard Head

I know the GM of one of the bigger international removals companies in town, and as of 3 weeks ago he tells me the balance of people coming in versus people leaving has reached crossover point, they are now doing more removals business from "import" than "export". And no Sharjah doesn't count, i'm talking about overseas, mostly Europe in this case. He tells me forward bookings now close to 2 coming in for every 1 going out. Balance may be different for non-UAE Arabs, Indians, other asians, can't comment specifically.

What I do know is that since Eid, despite the Metro, and despite all the doom-mongers saying everyone has left, the roads are just as busy as they were before.

I think Mistermarks best-case scenario is a pretty good stab at what will happen.


----------



## noir-dresses

I rented out my place to a new fish who just came into town aswell


----------



## Philippa C

Imre said:


> what is the difference between the residence visa if you have property or if you just have a free zone company and do nothing ? just cost more money, thats all, many people doing nothing just keep the company because of the visa. Any kind of people can get just cost money.
> QUOTE]
> 
> There's a new law that all companies, even those in free zones will be registered via the DDED. Will this have an effect on people getting visas through what are essentially "dummy" companies in the free zones or will they just turn a blind eye like the free zone management does now???
> 
> 
> There was an article in yesterday's Gulf News (http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/09/09/25/10352078.html) about a new law "Law No 22 of 2009 stipulates that the Dubai Department of Economic Development will be responsible for preparing and maintaining this unified record of all the business entities registered in Dubai including those registered within the freezones in coordination with the Dubai e-government."


----------



## True Blue

noir-dresses said:


> I rented out my place to a new fish who just came into town aswell


Takes months to get rid of that fish smell:lol:

I'm not convinced that Dubailand is the key to the property market anymore. It's all about jobs and employment. As long as people can find suitable work then they will want to stay.

Then there are those who don't need to work, they generally don't spend alot of time in theme parks.


----------



## Philippa C

Richard Head said:


> I know the GM of one of the bigger international removals companies in town, and as of 3 weeks ago he tells me the balance of people coming in versus people leaving has reached crossover point, they are now doing more removals business from "import" than "export". .


That's very re-assuring! I've also noticed the traffic on the roads is much heavier than in the weeks before the summer. The mass exodus that was predicted has not occurred or maybe it happened but those who left have been replaced. 

Certianly the gov is moving ahead with infrastructure and when the roundabouts on Al Khail Rd, the intersection at the Greens and the road through the Springs is complete the road system here will be world class (though not the drivers perhaps). 

We've invested heavily here so I'm always looking for positive signs - just hope I'm not deluding myself.


----------



## Hasnainlali

I'm in the process of buying an apartment that needs some alterations. I'd appreciate if you guys could suggest a good contractor. Thanks.


----------



## gerald.d

Richard Head said:


> What I do know is that since Eid, despite the Metro, and despite all the doom-mongers saying everyone has left, the roads are just as busy as they were before


Not sure which roads you're talking about, but with regards to rush hour traffic on SZR and feeders between Marina and Trade Center, that isn't remotely true to being the case. Perhaps with schools back properly next week, things will change though.


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## iamici

kbjfvyhbjk.


----------



## dubaiprojects

Imre said:


> People are different but I prefer Chefdude lifestyle, still better to live without stress, idiot boss,workers etc.. and just relax ,enjoy the life


So you dont work because some one else had worked and saved up all the money for you to relax and enjoy the life? By the way "Not working" has no direct relation to "without stress" these days 

Cheers


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## iamici

bkj.bbk.jbk


----------



## Imre

dubaiprojects said:


> So you dont work because some one else had worked and saved up all the money for you to relax and enjoy the life? By the way "Not working" has no direct relation to "without stress" these days
> 
> Cheers


I was working hard when I was young , since 2001 I am just investing and living like retired


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## Imre

gerald.d said:


> Not sure which roads you're talking about, but with regards to rush hour traffic on SZR and feeders between Marina and Trade Center, that isn't remotely true to being the case. Perhaps with schools back properly next week, things will change though.


No traffic because of the Dubai Metro 

Dubai needs more people, around 50000 people using the metro every day which is just joke..

Honestly, I can not see any differences about the traffic, visited the Terminal 3 today and saw more abandoned cars there as before .

Counted around 50 cars just at the Parking E , maybe good idea to make a photo tour there


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## iownyou

so imre what is your outlook for the future of the property and your time line


----------



## Imre

iownyou said:


> so imre what is your outlook for the future of the property and your time line


property always long term business (except the flipping) so if you dont need money now, better just wait and relax.

Rental yield still good if you bought in 2005 or before, so you dont need to worry about the 45 floors what you have


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## iamici

Imre said:


> property always long term bbjk


----------



## iownyou

hahahah exactly what i thought but small investor who want to flip they get hurt no experience


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## dubai12

Hai Everyone,

I am also an investor in Royal Estates and now trying to get back the money paid to them.
I am late to join your community. What to be done to join this group?? I tried to send an email to [email protected] but bounced. Please let me know the how to join and get the updates.

Thanks 
Dubai12


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## agod

Buy Now, this time next year you will be sorry that you didn't.............

These views are entirely my own, of course, and should be taken with a kilo of salt.

p.s only in the Marina area.

Alan


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## Spurs

Email:

[email protected]


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## noir-dresses

Banks begin to offer mortgages on multiple units 


At least one leading multinational bank has begun to offer property buyers mortgages on more than one property.
(SUPPLIED) 




By 

Shuchita Kapur on Sunday, September 27, 2009 

The banking sector in the UAE is beginning to show signs of the aggressive strategies that helped fuel the property boom prior to the meltdown of late 2008.

At least one leading multinational bank has begun to offer property buyers mortgages on more than one property.

The fact that property prices have more or less stabilised after sharp declines in the first half of the year is encouraging lenders to ease up on home finance.

In fact, the multinational that is offering multiple mortgages is doing so by reducing the loan-to-value ratios for the second and third mortgage.

Explaining the rationale, a spokesperson at Standard Chartered Bank told Emirates Business: "The first property is assumed to be the customer's primary residence, while other purchases act as investments."

However, to mitigate that risk, the banks may well demand larger down payments.

Many other banks in the country, however, said they were not adopting such a policy yet.


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## Mistermark

agod said:


> Buy Now, this time next year you will be sorry that you didn't.............
> 
> These views are entirely my own, of course, and should be taken with a kilo of salt.
> 
> p.s only in the Marina area.
> 
> Alan


I think history will judge late June to have been the bottom of the market. I also think there's upside in JLT, given that the Metro is now open.


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## noir-dresses

Dubai Can Learn from Hong Kong’s Knack for Trade Fairs 



27 September 2009 
DUBAI/HONG KONG — Hong Kong, long renowned for its savvy traders, has parlayed its success as a commercial gateway to mainland China into a newer role as a favourite venue for international  trade fairs. 

Three simultaneous fairs held earlier this year at Hong Kong’s downtown exhibition complex attest to the city’s allure as a setting for business exhibitions, even if the recession deterred some cost-conscious foreigners from traveling far to attend the events. By staying relevant even in tough economic times, Hong Kong offers clues as to what Dubai might do to raise its own profile as an  exhibition center. 

Among these clues is that financial support from the government can be crucial to a show’s success, particularly when business is suffering from a downturn as it is today. Another lesson: Don’t over-reach by trying to stage all manner of exhibitions but aim to host shows selectively for industries in which you have a natural advantage or appeal. 

Dubai is gearing up now for several of the biggest fairs on its trade-show calendar, including Cityscape and Gitex Technology Week in October and the Dubai Airshow and Big 5 construction fair in November. A general concern among organizers, exhibitors and buyers alike is the extent to which the recession may hurt turnout at the events. 

Cityscape, for example, will have a hard time generating as much excitement as it did last year, when the property show attracted more than 1,000 exhibitors and almost 70,000 visitors. Next month’s show comes in the wake of the collapse in Dubai’s real estate market, and around 30 per cent fewer exhibitors have registered to participate this time around, Cityscape spokeswoman  Nathalie Visele told Khaleej Times last week in Dubai.

The upcoming Big 5 construction show, on the other hand, will “surprise the market” with more exhibitors and a bigger exhibition space than it had in 2008, said Simon Mellor of DMG World Media, the fair’s organiser. 

“Dubai is an easy place to do business, it’s a relaxed place to spend time, and it has the facilities,” Mellor said last week in Dubai. “We could not put on this show anywhere else in the Middle East with the ease and the scale that we have here in Dubai.”

Hong Kong’s experience, however, points to possible constraints on Dubai in its effort to become an even more important player in the business  of exhibitions. 

Some cities are happy to mount a single big trade show at a time. Hong Kong orchestrated three at once – for electronics, lighting and computer technology companies. And that was just at the Hong Kong Exhibition and Convention Centre. A rival trade fair took place the same week in April at an equally enormous site near Hong Kong  International Airport. 

“Fantastic,” was Deepak Khaitan’s verdict on the Hong Kong Electronics Fair. Khaitan, the managing director of Eveready Industries India Ltd., had come in search of new products and suppliers for his battery business in Kolkata. “There’s no reason for us to go anywhere else,” he said, pausing on his rounds of the futuristic centre’s 10 voluminous  exhibition halls. 

Visitor numbers at the four-day event were down by 3.7 per cent from last year, a decrease that the shows’ organisers ascribed to diminished travel budgets at many of the companies that might otherwise have come to display their latest wares, meet potential buyers, or discover new sources of supply. 

Of more than 3,600 firms exhibiting their goods, most were Chinese, and many were participating for the  first time.

“I think this show is more important because of the recession,” said M.K. Chiu, Director of Jinghong Industrial (HK) Co., Ltd., a maker of flexible silicon computer keyboards. Jinghong’s sales in the US and Europe are down 40 per cent from last year, and Chiu hoped to offset that weakness by cultivating buyers in new markets, including the Middle East, where he said he had already sold thousands of spill-resistant  Arabic keyboards. 

Americans and Europeans also were buying fewer USB memory sticks from Marsilli Product Factory (HK) Ltd., a Hong Kong firm with a factory in the nearby Chinese city of Shenzhen. Marketing Manager Keith Cheung called the fair a “hot” event and said Marsilli needed to be here to showcase its newest products. As dance music boomed from his display stand, women in yellow miniskirts performed a catwalk, each holding a single memory stick designed as a miniature camera, toaster or chainsaw.

This year’s show attracted more Middle Easterners than usual, said Melody Song, head of sales for Shangyu North Electron Manufacture Co., Ltd., a maker of portable freezers in the mainland city of Shangyu. Still, orders were scarce at her firm’s booth. “All the clients say the cost is too high,” Song said. 

Mindful of the recession’s impact, the Hong Kong Trade Development Council, a government agency that organized the three-in-one fair, quadrupled its marketing budget this year to attract more buyers from emerging markets. The council paid for air tickets and hotel rooms for an unprecedented 6,000 potential buyers, all of them new to these shows. It also boosted by 50 per cent the subsidies it paid to local small and medium-sized firms to help them promote their  products overseas. 

This extra spending, in tandem with expanded export credit insurance coverage from the Hong Kong government, gave a boost to the exhibition and made it more worthwhile for participants. 

Raymond Yip, the council’s assistant executive director, justified the higher spending by noting that trade shows contributed “enormous economic benefits” to Hong Kong and accounted for 6.4 per cent of the city’s economic output. Hong Kong’s exhibitions include the world’s largest gift fair and biggest watch and clock show. 

One of Hong Kong’s biggest strengths as a hub for shows featuring consumer products is its close proximity to the factories in southern China that produce so many of the gadgets displayed here. Most of these plants are just a few hours’ driving time from the city. 

“That’s why the fair is here: The factories are here,” said Philippe Crompton-Roberts, director of electronics  exporter SG Ltd. 

Many buyers said they planned to travel to factories in mainland China immediately after the show. Some needed to touch base with existing suppliers there, while others wanted to visit manufacturers they learned about at  the exhibition. 

Dubai, however, has a much smaller manufacturing hinterland than Hong Kong, and several buyers said that this limits its appeal as an exhibition venue.

“In Hong Kong, you can go afterward to the factory. In Dubai, it’s all trading companies – no suppliers, no manufacturing companies,” said F. A. Shirvani, the R&D manager for Snowa, one of Iran’s biggest producers of  home appliances.

In addition, steep prices in Dubai for hotel rooms and restaurant meals have discouraged some visitors in the past, though the recession has spurred many hotels in the emirate to slash their room rates this year. Dubai also is a harder city to get around in than compact Hong Kong, though the new Metro, and the post-boom easing of Dubai’s traffic jams, have made it somewhat easier  to navigate. 

Overall, buyers and exhibitors said, Dubai will find it hard to play in the same league as Hong Kong if it wants to hosts trade fairs for consumer products, many of which originate in China. The emirate’s best bet, it seems, would be to focus instead on shows for service industries in which it has inherent expertise, such as tourism, aviation and construction. The Dubai Airshow and Arabian Travel Mart, for instance, are widely acclaimed. 

Yip of the Hong Kong Trade Development Council believes that every successful trade-show hub has at least one of three attributes: a good brand, a nearby production base and a large regional market. Dubai, a comparative newcomer to the trade-show game, is still building its brand, and it lacks China’s production capacity. But the emirate is second to none as a trade-fair venue in the large Middle East market. 

Yip acknowledged Dubai’s unique standing in this region, then added a note of caution: “Your success as an exhibition center is not self-proclaimed.”


----------



## Chuckles4

noir-dresses said:


> Banks begin to offer mortgages on multiple units
> 
> In fact, the multinational that is offering multiple mortgages is doing so by reducing the loan-to-value ratios for the second and third mortgage.
> 
> However, to mitigate that risk, the banks may well demand larger down payments.


So in essence, SCB is willing to offer mortgages on more than one property, but will want a large downpayment of the second- and third-mortgage. And I can bet you they are not reducing their mortgage rates either. 

This is not going to spur demand for property in Dubai. What is needed from banks is both a reduction in interest rates and lower downpayments.....and I don't see either happening anytime soon.

Interest rates charged on all types of loans in the UAE will continue to be high as long as EIBOR is at peak levels as they are now. While 1-month EIBOR in Dirhams is around 1.75%, its counterpart in USD (1-month LIBOR) is 0.25........in other words it costs banks in the UAE 7 times more to borrow from each other than it does other banks in Europe.

The high EIBOR in the UAE is indicative of the severe lack of liquidity...unless this is urgently corrected by the UAE Central Bank by putting in massive funds into the banking sector (an action that the CB has shown to have very little appetite), lending by banks will continue to be constrained....and so will demand for property in Dubai.


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## dubai12

Hai Spur

I tried to email to the id given, but got the failure message as given below. What to do next??

Regards

We're writing to let you know that the group that you tried to contact(royalestatesinvestorsgroup) either doesn't exist, or you don't have permission to post to it. There are a few possible reasons why this happened: * You might have spelled or formatted the group name incorrectly.* The owner of the group removed this group, so there's nobody there to contact.* You may need to join the group before being allowed to post.* This group may not be open to posting. If you have questions about this or any other group, please visit the Google Groups Help Center at http://groups.google.com/support. Thanks, and we hope you'll continue to enjoy Google Groups. The Google Groups Team


----------



## Imre

*Property chief looking at long jail term*


A company owner and chief executive faces life in prison over a string of charges relating to fraud and bounced cheques. 

Peter Margetts, 46, from the UK, has already been sentenced to 20 years by the Dubai Courts and could face a further 118 years if found guilty on the remainder of the charges, all of which he denies. 

Mr Margetts, the chief executive of the developer Hampstead & Mayfair, was indicted on four counts of fraud and 42 of issuing cheques that bounced. He has been convicted and sentenced on 13 of the counts, with 33 still to be judged in continuing hearings.

The sole owner of Hampstead & Mayfair, Mr Margetts was arrested on January 26. The company is developing the Boutique Residence 1, 2 and 3 projects at Jumeirah Village on the outskirts of Dubai. 

The allegations are that last year he borrowed Dh21 million (US$5.7m) from 42 UAE-based pilots to finance a property development in Dubai, promising a 30 per cent return within six months.

“We have paid sums which range between Dh250,000 and Dh2.5m,” said Peter Krygger, one of the investors, who added: “We acquired some information that Margetts was not investing our monies as we agreed.”


The initial investment had involved the Dubai Waterfront, he said, but the investors learnt that their money had gone into the Jumeirah Village developments. 


http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090927/NATIONAL/709269869/0/PERSONALFINANCE


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## iamici

kbj


----------



## Philippa C

Mistermark said:


> I think history will judge late June to have been the bottom of the market. I also think there's upside in JLT, given that the Metro is now open.



You may well be right. We have a ex-banker friend who predicted the stock market crash and the property crash - not the timing but he kept telling us to expect it. He was totally against buying property in Dubai but kept monitoring the market against what he could buy for same money overseas. It's interesting that he started looking for villas before the summer holidays this year! 

The metro is a huge plus for JLT - I don't know why they even call the station "Dubai Marina" as it's closer to JLT!


----------



## gerald.d

^^ There are two Metro stations at JLT. They can't both be called JLT, because that would confuse people.

I was down at the Addresses this weekend trying to decide on a room for national day (Downtown Burj Dubai, and Dubai Mall).

The girl showing me around the DM one said that not only were people turning up at the wrong hotels trying to check in, but that there were instances of people who had already checked into the DM one, going to Dubai Mall, doing their shopping, somehow finding their way to the DBD one, and getting as far as the same room number, then questioning why their keys didn't work.

People are stupid. They shouldn't be given confusing scenarios!


----------



## noir-dresses

Same-day cheque clearance to start from November 15 


The new electronic clearing system will rob banks of the benefits of float money. (EB FILE) 




By 

CL Jose on Monday, September 28, 2009 

Come November 15 and UAE?banks will cease to cash in on the benefits of 'float money' they enjoy for more than a day during the process of clearing a cheque, as the image-based clearing system becomes T+0, banking sources said. 

T+0 implies the day of transaction, or the day the cheque is presented, plus zero days. Although image-based clearing has been operational from July 12, 2008, the clearing process has typically taken more than one day for local cheques, going up to four days in some cases. The presenting bank sends an electronic image of a cheque to the UAE Central Bank, which in turn validates it and sends it back to the presenting bank within 24 hours.

"Once the new process is in place, cheques presented within a stipulated time period of the day will be cleared the same day. More importantly, the Central Bank insists that the presenting bank cannot keep the money in float, but has to credit it to the customer's account that very day," the source explained.

Top officials acknowledged to Emirates Business that normally clearing can now take between two to three days and in some cases, more than that. "On the one hand, the Central Bank takes a day for settlement on its side, and once it is cleared by Central Bank, the funds may not get credited to the customer's account immediately," one official said.

The new system will enable fully electronic clearing of cheques regardless of where they are presented. Through the new system, cheques will be stored for 10 years initially. This may be extended once the system goes operational in full swing. The system will also provide a cheque archive facility at the Central Bank, which will be accessible to all banks in the UAE.

Sources said banks used to gain from 'float money' in the form of interest from the inter-bank market. "There are about 80,000 to 90,000 cheques, which go into the banking system daily and the amount involved is about Dh500 million a day," said one banker.

Customers have also complained about delays in transferring funds from the UAE?to their overseas accounts.


----------



## noir-dresses

Central Bank’s New Interbank Rate Starts Oct 1 
(Reuters)


28 September 2009 
DUBAI — The UAE central bank will launch its new mechanism for fixing the interbank offered rate on October 1, bankers said on Sunday, as it moves to lower rates it says are too high and do not reflect the market. 

“There was communication from the central bank that the official EIBOR, or Emirates Interbank Offered Rate, will be launched on October 1, but there would be a meeting prior to that to finalise some operational issues,” a senior treasury official at an Abu Dhabi-based  bank said. 

Some details on how the interbank offered rate will be calculated from the data provided by banks still need to be settled, he said, with the final formula expected to be announced  before Thursday. 

Last month, the central bank rejigged the panel of providers for EIBOR in the hope it would lower interbank rates. 

The new 11-bank panel — which includes four new local banks and dropped two foreign lenders — was expected to begin work in mid-September. 

A Dubai-based banker confirmed the October 1 start date and said the central bank was keen to lower interbank lending rates as many banks base their loans to customers on EIBOR. 

“A lower rate will help borrowers and should ease some of the liquidity pressures in the country, helping to revive the economy,” he said. 

“The central bank is doing this because they feel that under the old system rates were too high and that by managing the process themselves and changing the make-up of the panel this will lead to lower EIBOR rates,” he said. —


----------



## noir-dresses

Abu Dhabi, Dubai Maintain Bull Run 
(With inputs from Agencies)


28 September 2009 
DUBAI — Gulf shares advanced, buoyed by the biggest jump in Saudi Arabian stocks in more than four months. 

Aref Investment Group, the Kuwaiti investment company, rose the most in almost three weeks after Kuwait Finance House agreed to reschedule its debt. Dubai Islamic Bank, the United Arab Emirates’ biggest lender complying with Islamic rules, advanced to its highest since November. Saudi Arabia’s Tadawul All Share Index, reopening after the Eid al-Fitr holiday, added 3.1 per cent yesterday, the most since May 9.

The index rallied after a group of Saudi Arabian and foreign banks agreed to refinance part of the Saad Group’s debt, two people familiar with the situation said. The group owes at least $6.5 billion to global creditors including Citigroup Inc. and BNP Paribas SA. The company, with interests in construction, finance and real estate, defaulted on payments owed by its Bahraini banking unit earlier this year.

“The region is reacting strongly to Saudi’s rally,” said Khaled Masri, a partner at Rasmala Investment LLC in Dubai. The Saad Group news “is helping sentiments,” he said.

The Dubai Financial Market General Index added 0.6 per cent and Abu Dhabi’s ADX General Index advanced 0.2 per cent. The Tadawul index rose another 0.8 per cent to 6179.12 at 2:12 p.m. today in the kingdom.

The last two weeks of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, which ended Sept. 20, usually bring investors back to the market, often leading to a rally that continues several weeks after the holiday, Morgan Stanley said in a report last month. Saudi Arabia’s index gained 5 per cent in the final two weeks of Ramadan while Dubai’s bourse  soared 8.7 per cent.

Aref Investment gained 5.8 per cent to 182 fils, the highest since Sept. 10. Kuwait Finance House agreed to reschedule Aref’s debts of 132 million dinars ($461 million). Kuwait Finance House added 1.5 per cent to 1,320 fils.

Dubai Islamic Bank added 2.9 per cent to Dh3.25.

Oman’s MSM30 Index and the Kuwait Stock Exchange Unweighted Index added 1.3 per cent each. Qatar’s DSM 20 Index advanced 0.3 per cent and the Bahrain All Share Index gained 0.7 per cent. 

Abu Dhabi Securities Exchange
Abu Dhabi Securities Exchange, or ADX, announced on Sunday that the Global index provider, FTSE Group has finalised its annual review of country classification for the FTSE Global Equity Index Series, or GEIS, and confirmed that the UAE is to be promoted to Secondary Emerging market. 

Tom Healy, ADX Chief Executive said, “We are delighted that the UAE will be promoted to the new designation within FTSE Global Equity Index Series; ADX fully supports the GEIS initiative and will cooperate with the FTSE Group in communicating progress back to the international investment community.” 

Jonathan Cooper, Middle East and Africa Managing Director for FTSE Group said: “The UAE’s inclusion as a secondary emerging market to the GEIS is a great achievement. It is proof of the commitment that has been undertaken by the exchanges to achieve international recognition and to facilitate access for international investors. FTSE is proud to announce this decision which will bear considerable weight in creating further visibility of the region across international markets.” 

Nasdaq Dubai 
Meanwhile, NASDAQ Dubai Academy is expanding its range of courses on investor relations and financial public relations to meet growing demand, in association with specialist training company FinanceTalking Ltd.

The extended programme, to be held in October 2009, aims to promote best practices by listed companies in the region. It follows a successful initial programme held in June. .

Jeff Singer, Chief Executive of NASDAQ Dubai, the region’s international exchange, said: “Following a period of volatility in the capital markets, companies are increasingly aware of the need to communicate their strengths and achievements effectively to investors and the general public. These courses help companies to identify the appropriate information to give out and the right methods for distributing it.”

NASDAQ Dubai Academy will hold three one-day foundation courses on October 11-13, followed by a one-day practitioner course on October 14, all aimed at in-house and external investor relations and public  relations practitioners.


----------



## iownyou

GULF NEWS SOURCE


Dubai: Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Cairo and Casablanca are the best positioned within the MENA region to attract long-term capital over the next few years, says a recent industry report.

The ability to attract long-term investors and investments will be key to market success, said a recent report by Jones Lang LaSalle.

In more mature economies, long-term investors account for 80 per cent of large real estate investment transactions.

"This transition will require a paradigm shift from the previous reliance on short-term strategies and rapid implementation to an increased focus on the creation of quality real estate assets that will be attractive to both occupiers and long-term real estate investors," noted the report. 
Many long-term investors have put off investing in Dubai, especially in the past due to the frantic activity of short-term speculators and developers that buoyed the market for so long.

This essentially led to the current sluggish market activity and reduced sales.

"In the rush to build and sell real estate assets, markets across the MENA region have largely overlooked the requirement to attract more stable, long term investors and end users over the last decade," said the report.

When many investors left the marketplace and took their money with them, this contributed to the decline in property prices and rents which fell 25 to 50 per cent in some markets across the region.

While 2009 has been a year of correction, in the eyes of many industry experts, markets in the region are expected to stabilise in 2010 and finally recover in 2011, according to Jones Lang LaSalle.

And signs of a more stable property market are already becoming visible in Dubai with developers and investors having learned harsh lessons from past experiences.

"There has been some long-term investment from local and GCC family groups. What has been missing is investment from western style institutional investors - this will come but has not been much in evidence to date," Craig Plumb, head of research, MENA, Jones Lang LaSalle, told Gulf News.

Dubai, the hardest hit real estate market, Abu Dhabi, Cairo and Casablanca topped the table in the region as being best positioned to attract long term capital due to three major elements - investment environment competitiveness such as infrastructure and ease of investment, real estate market conditions, including stability of pricing, transparency and liquidity and finally, the availability of investable products like stable rental income and potential for capital growth.

"The key markets for investments are Dubai and Abu Dhabi with a caveat on Abu Dhabi that there is a change in the investment area. The types of occupiers [in Dubai and Abu Dhabi] are the ones international investors are looking for," said Nicholas Maclean, managing director of CB Richard Ellis Middle East region.

Maclean said while Dubai and Abu Dhabi are definitely key areas for long term investors, Cairo and Casablanca are "not in the same league" as the UAE, although Cairo is likely to offer more opportunities as it develops further.

A possible vehicle to stimulate investment in the sector might be Real Estate Investment Trusts (REITs) and Dubai is poised to see strengthened activity in this area in the future.

"REITs would indeed be a good vehicle and we expect to see more products being structured in this manner in the future," Plumb added. REITs have not been so widely used in this region historically due to legislation and restrictive regulations.

Another way to encourage long term investment is to federalise the current laws so that all the emirates can operate under one set of regulations and not have to make retrospective changes, Maclean added.

The most significant challenge right now, however, is the issue of potential oversupply. Vacancies in the office market are around 25 per cent and the average hotel occupancy rate is around 65 per cent, said the report. The oversupply situation creates additional downward pressure on prices and rental levels in the short term.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Investment/10352776.html


----------



## tehsin123

iownyou said:


> GULF NEWS SOURCE
> 
> 
> Dubai: Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Cairo and Casablanca are the best positioned within the MENA region to attract long-term capital over the next few years, says a recent industry report.


I suggest if you can paste only links and not whole newspaper feeds onto this forum. We can click on links to read.
Secondly, I think market will be lifted by making positive changes and improving fundamentals rather than by writing reports in newspapers. Dubai reached to this stage because of these "positive" reports which created false hype. So beware this time please!


----------



## 234sale

Just post small clips of info with the link other GN gets upset think we are borrowing info without permission.


----------



## Philippa C

tehsin123 said:


> Secondly, I think market will be lifted by making positive changes and improving fundamentals rather than by writing reports in newspapers. Dubai reached to this stage because of these "positive" reports which created false hype. So beware this time please!


I agree we need fundamental changes by government but "mood" plays an enormous role in investment decisions so it is good to see these more upbeat reports coming out. I also think the negative mood and reports led to a bigger drop in prices than was warranted.


----------



## gerald.d

iamici said:


> This is the Property and investment thread right ?
> 
> I propose we examine different areas of UAE for investment value, rents, asking prices and make an interesting examination.
> 
> How about JLT as case study one ?
> 
> An apartment in JLT costs ? psf
> 
> It rents for ?
> 
> Its a good buy because ?
> 
> So how about those Al seef towers, good or not ?


I think this would be an interesting exercise actually.

Happy to contribute from the renter's perspective (and I'm in Seef).


----------



## iamici

gerald.d said:


> I think this would be an interesting e
> umber of bedrooms: 2


----------



## iamici

The first thing I would like to say, is where should we put th


----------



## gerald.d

iamici said:


> Ok I will start by picking a few for sale prices from Gulf News to begin the discussion.
> 
> Al Seef 2 [JLT]
> AED 3,782,428 Location: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Dubai Number of bedrooms: 2
> 
> Property type: For Sale - Flats
> Al Seef 2 [JLT] AED 3,136,741 Location: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Dubai Number of bedrooms: 2
> 
> 
> Al Seef 2 [JLT] AED 3,792,882 Location: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Dubai Number of bedrooms: 2
> 
> Property type: For Sale - Flats
> 
> 
> Al Seef 3 [JLT]	AED 3,133,260 Location: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Dubai Number of bedrooms: 2


WTF is with those prices?

When we rented in March, I'm pretty sure that 2044sq ft 2-bed apartments were on the market for around 1.6>1.8M. Since then, rents have dropped about 20%.

With regards to quality matrix -

The only thing that matters location-wise IMO is how close you are to a Metro station. If it's walkable in high summer (and I'd say Seef are on the edge of walkability in high summer), then you're at the top of the list.

These are big flats. If size is important to you, there's nothing to compete with the 2044sq fts (at least, there wasn't back in March. Medina was close size-wise, but very weird lay-out.)

They seem very well built - snagging was very minor, and we have had NO additional problems (touch wood) since we moved in.

Well run building - always clean, security always about.

Pool/gym not the best, but certainly acceptable.

Very high and consistant occupancy. When someone moves out, it doesn't seem to take long before someone takes their place.

Chav-factor low (i.e. few satellite dishes and washing being left to dry on the balcony. Unlike Tamweel opposite!).


----------



## iamici

gerald.d said:


> WTF is with those prices? *Honest, those are the prices I pulled from Gulf News website with a search today. So it would be what other punters are seeing too.*
> 
> When we rented in March, I'm pretty sure that 2044sq ft 2-bed apartments were on the market for around 1.6>1.8M. Since then, rents have dropped about 20%.*Would suggest prices should of dropped and not shot up then.*
> 
> With regards to quality matrix -
> 
> The only thing that matters location-wise IMO is how close you are to a Metro station. If it's walkable in high summer (and I'd say Seef are on the edge of walkability in high summer), then you're at the top of the list.* How long does it take to walk there? Wouldnt you consider view of a lake or some such as well?*
> 
> These are big flats. If size is important to you, there's nothing to compete with the 2044sq fts (at least, there wasn't back in March. Medina was close size-wise, but very weird lay-out.)
> 
> They seem very well built - snagging was very minor, and we have had NO additional problems (touch wood) since we moved in.
> 
> Well run building - always clean, security always about.
> 
> Pool/gym not the best, but certainly acceptable.
> 
> Very high and consistant occupancy. When someone moves out, it doesn't seem to take long before someone takes their place.
> 
> Chav-factor low (i.e. few satellite dishes and washing being left to dry on the balcony. Unlike Tamweel opposite!).


*Well seems recovery is in place as prices have doubled since march*


----------



## gerald.d

^^ LOLZ. There is no WAY people are actually buying at those prices.

Metro entrance is probably no more than 100m from the bottom of the ramp.

You can get lake view if you want - Seef 2 has apartments with excellent uninterrupted views down the lake. Most JLT buildings give you a choice of lake or SZR/Marina views, so I wouldn't consider this a deciding factor (obviously it is when considering apartments within a building, but not when picking the building itself).


----------



## iamici

Post Deleted


----------



## gerald.d

120k 2 cheques. Absolute max.


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## iamici

Post Deleted


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## gerald.d

Landlord pays service charge and communal chilling.


----------



## montranieri

iamici said:


> Ok I will start by picking a few for sale prices from Gulf News to begin the discussion.
> 
> Al Seef 2 [JLT]
> AED 3,782,428 Location: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Dubai Number of bedrooms: 2
> 
> Property type: For Sale - Flats
> Al Seef 2 [JLT] AED 3,136,741 Location: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Dubai Number of bedrooms: 2
> 
> 
> Al Seef 2 [JLT] AED 3,792,882 Location: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Dubai Number of bedrooms: 2
> 
> Property type: For Sale - Flats
> 
> 
> Al Seef 3 [JLT]	AED 3,133,260 Location: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Dubai Number of bedrooms: 2
> 
> 
> 
> Stunning 2 BR in Jumeirah Lake Towers	AED 1,664,000 Location: Jumeirah Lake Towers, Dubai
> 
> Number of bedrooms: 2
> 
> 
> Spacious 2 BR In JLT - Al Seef Tower 3 AED 1,550,000 Number of bedrooms: 2



These prices are our of the world. I do not know where you found them.
Prices in JLT range from a minimum of 600 aed per sqft to a maximum of 1100 aed psqft.
Key factor is the size versus number of room. Ideal size is:
1BR: 800sqft
2br: 1200sqft
3br: 1500 sqft

if you have anything bigger than these sizes you re going to get less for each sqft you own.

This my opinion omly


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## iamici

This my opinion omly [/QUOTE]


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## iamici

Post REMOVED


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## iamici

......


----------



## Mistermark

The Al Seef example is not representative as they are huge relative to the number of bedrooms. In Dubai apartments are bought and sold on square footage, but rented broadly on number of bedrooms.


----------



## gerald.d

Mistermark said:


> The Al Seef example is not representative as they are huge relative to the number of bedrooms. In Dubai apartments are bought and sold on square footage, but rented broadly on number of bedrooms.


Very true. Which is what makes them so attractive to tenants. 

Having said that though, compare rental values for seef compared to all other JLT properties. Clearly I'm not the only one prepared to pay a premium for the space.


----------



## Porcello

iamici said:


> Ok i m going to make a guess at 6dhs for service charge per foot and 4 dhs per foot for chiller. (PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I M WRONG).
> 
> So to receive a rent of 120k less 12,000 service chare, 8000 chiller, 6000 letting fee (I m being real generous here to how well the landlord can negotiate), 94k rent is your net.
> 
> If you can buy at 3.7 million your net is 2.54% Very bad
> 
> If you buy at 1.5 your net is 6.2% Quite Ok.
> 
> Assuming you never have a void. Maintenance and repairs are zero.
> 
> But rents are 120k max when supply has not come on stream in much force.


Wrong assumptions. Last year maintenance charges, all included, 14 AED per sq ft. That is, for a 2044 sq ft 2 br, 28K. No need to calculate anything else for the business case. It's quite obvious that if the charges don't go down next year and in absence of capital appreciation we are in front of a terrible investment. Anyway... there is no letting fee for landlords.


----------



## Morrismarina

Philippa C said:


> While this headline relates to the UK housing market, surely it will have a knock on affect here.
> 
> 'Housing crash is over' declares HSBC as bank offers extra £500m in return to 90% loans
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-bank-offers-500m-90-loans.html#ixzz0SVbDyF1G


Problem is Phillipa the extra £500m is just simply peanuts and will make no difference at all. HSBC are just headline grabbing - cheap advertising. And HSBC's lending policy is the tightest of any lender.......basically if you're not related to Prince Philiip you've got no chance. This will not make one ounce of difference to the UK property market. In fact it shows just have bad the market has become.

Fancy the Lifetime base rate tracker charging + 4.59per cent with a £999 fee ?? :lol: That's currently 4.99% today but what if the Bank of England rate hits 5% in couple of year then you'll be paying 9.59%. And they have the cheek to charge a grand just to set it up. :lol:

Then factor in, if you are approved, it will take at least six weeks to get your mortgage offer by which time you've probably lost the house you wanted anyway. I know it took this long for them to issue me with one in May last year. However I got my rate at BBR + 0.44% for life from them..........my mortgage must be losing them a fortune......my God how the rates have changed, this was only a few months before the credit crunch so even HSBC couldn't see the current low rates comming.


----------



## iamici

.....


----------



## sandstone

Following this exercise closely. 

One thing, someone define "Chav-factor" for me. Not heard that kind of language here in the states...!


_"*Chav-factor* low (i.e. few satellite dishes and washing being left to dry on the balcony. Unlike Tamweel opposite!)."_


----------



## bizzybonita

IISinbadII said:


> Any real signs of RECOVERY?


Director said the company «Landmark Real Estate» Branch Abu Dhabi, Hisham Brothers, for «Emirates Today» The «Dubai's property market is currently stable, and there was an upswing in the market», adding that «the level of trading is not like the boom days, but it is noticeable that there is activity ».

He stressed that the «bank financing is available, but banks select customers, and to impose a kind of precautionary measures in the selection of customers who will receive funding»


----------



## Imre

IISinbadII said:


> Any real signs of RECOVERY?


market still dead.

What is the motivation for buyers now? no visa, no loan etc...

I think more construction will stop soon because the investors dont pay the installments and some companies have no money at all.


----------



## bizzybonita

Reef tests the market with serviced offices


Published: September 30, 2009, 15:26

In a realty market still treading cautiously, ‘serviced offices’ could be the next big thing. By offering a certain number of back-up services at a fixed cost, the developer is now able to reach out to tenants who would otherwise have not considered shifting premises in an extremely tough business environment.

Unveiling its serviced offices, Reef Real Estate is offering 188 units ranging between 200 and 2,000 square feet for monthly rentals of up to Dh9,000 at Al Reef Tower in Jumeirah Lakes Towers. For those tenants paying a six months’ rent upfront, the developer is offering a five per cent discount, and 10 per cent to those who pay for the full year. These tenants also get a discount on service charges.

Reef Real Estate officials are quick to give the lie to reports of a tepid commercial marketplace, confirming that the units on offer have been quick to win over patrons since the leasing programme started on August 1. While the tenant list features auditors, debt management firms, legal and commodities companies, a senior official says that Reef was weighing its options on serviced offices even before the market correction set in.

But once the downturn became tangible and companies started to downsize and eschew the liabilities imposed by long-term leases, serviced offices have sure enough emerged as the best short-term alternative available today. The other shell-and-core office and retail spaces in Al Reef Tower bought by investors could also end up in the serviced offices pool.

In fact, Al Reef Tower’s location within Jumeirah Lakes Towers has worked to the developer’s advantage. There is the advantage of being close to two Metro stations on top of the benefit of operating within a free zone operated by the Dubai Multi Commodities Centre.

“We have exclusivity in DMCC, there was no stock available here,” says Ian Lloyd, chief executive, R-Serviced Offices. “Also its ideal for those companies whose licences expire soon, and need a temporary place to operate from.” He has a point, especially going by the latest DMCC data, which states that 1,700 companies have so far registered to set up their bases in the cluster.

Reef Real Estate is now so taken up with the serviced office concept that a similar model will be unveiled later in Abu Dhabi. Even a franchising of the ‘R-Serviced Offices’ is not being ruled out.

On its other projects, matters are not progressing according to plan. Saddled by defaults, Reef Real Estate has decided to place the Furjan building in Jebel Ali, Park Residences in Downtown Jebel Ali and the Dunes Tower in Jumeirah Village on hold. Escrow accounts for these projects will ensure that those investors who made timely payments get a refund or their unit transferred to a completed one, either the Al Reef Tower or the Madina Tower, also in Jumeirah Lake Towers.

“The Real Estate Regulatory Agency has been informed about these projects,” says Shaikh Ahmad Mohammad Zayed Saqr Al Nahyan, chairman of Reef Real Estate. “We are lucky to be able to refund investors who are paying their instalments on time, and are trying to settle all accounts with defaulters."

http://www.gulfnews.com/PropertyWeekly/main_story/10353461.html


----------



## dubai12

Spurs said:


> The group is active as I received an email yesterday and I believe there are over 50/60 investors in it. The only email address I have is:
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> I think the moderator of the group has to accept you. I would surgest emailing it again and I will ask the question to the group.
> 
> Nothing is easy in Dubai :bash:


Thank you very much spur,

The moderator has included me in the group.

Bye


----------



## DXBQuantum

Imre said:


> market still dead.
> 
> What is the motivation for buyers now? no visa, no loan etc...
> 
> I think more construction will stop soon because the investors dont pay the installments and some companies have no money at all.


i have to disagree Imre,

there is plenty of finance available, please trust me on this... 

also there are plenty of buyers, and still alot of transactions happening, you only need to see the transaction figures at the Lands Department for the truth.

Credit transactions for Dubai Waterfront and Badrah are also very active, as well as Emaars point and Claeren projects.


----------



## Imre

bizzybonita said:


> Reef tests the market with serviced offices
> 
> 
> Unveiling its serviced offices, Reef Real Estate is offering 188 units ranging between 200 and 2,000 square feet for monthly rentals of up to Dh9,000 at Al Reef Tower in Jumeirah Lakes Towers. For those tenants paying a six months’ rent upfront, the developer is offering a five per cent discount, and 10 per cent to those who pay for the full year. These tenants also get a discount on service charges.


Reef Tower was handed over in 2008 and they still have 188 free units?:nuts:


----------



## Imre

DXBQuantum said:


> Credit transactions for Dubai Waterfront and Badrah are also very active, as well as Emaars point and Claeren projects.


this one is not a really business , just good for agents.

Nakheel and Emaar allowing this now because they know these projects will be ON HOLD for years..


----------



## DXBQuantum

yeah but it still shows people are interested in trading, thats the main point.


----------



## Imre

you, right but for me the RECOVERY means that the prices rising again.

I am checking the GN,dubizzle.com,expatriates.com etc every day and still no changes, even same properties for sale since months.


----------



## Imre

recovery 

*Property prices near Metro start showing positive signs *

October 01, 2009 

Residential and commercial properties in the immediate vicinity of the Metro stations could see a potential uplift of 10 to 20 per cent, an international real estate advisory firm said yesterday.

"If the Metro proves popular and efficient then it is very likely we will see a significant impact on the values around stations. The early signs have been positive. We consider the potential uplift in the immediate vicinity of the Metro stations, that is less than 400 metres, could be in the region of 10 to 20 per cent for both residential and commercial uses, but this impact will not be even across the station network," said Andrew Edwards, Associate Director at DTZ in a report on the impact of the Dubai Metro on real estate values.

.
.
.
The impact is also likely to be more significant at certain destinations such as Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT) for residential and Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC) for commercial. This is because there is a high concentration of residential use at JLT and commercial use at DIFC, which is likely to translate into a high level of trip generation.
.
.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0012009_88694131dc884afe82d46bb39f4de141.aspx


----------



## jeetha

*Japanese firms lead job revival in UAE*

22% increase in business from Japanese firms, says hiring firm. (AFP) 
By Vicky Kapur on Thursday, October 01, 2009 

Despite the slump in the UAE job market, Japanese firms are busy hiring, with a leading recruitment agency claiming to have seen a 22 per cent increase in business from Japanese firms in the first six months of 2009.

"Japanese firms in the UAE believe that they've seen the bottom [of the crisis] and are now preparing for the upturn," Ian Giulianotti, Associate Director at Nadia Middle East, told Emirates Business.

"According to our research, we have seen an increase of 22 per cent in business from Japanese firms in the UAE," he said, declining to name his clients.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, one of the largest Japanese firms operating in the region, has seen its business growing in recent years, said a top official. "We have won projects worth $1.5 billion (Dh5.5bn) a year on an average in the past five years," said Koji Okamoto, General Manager, Middle East Office of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI). Some of the largest projects that MHI is working on include the Dubai Metro Red and Green Lines and the airport people mover. 

MHI is the leader of a consortium of four Japanese companies and a Turkish corporation that planned and implemented the two-phase Dubai Metro project. Members of the consortium include Japanese Obayashi, Kajima Corporations and Yapi Merkesi of Turkey.

"At present, the consortium employs 10,000 people for the Dubai Metro alone," said Okamoto. "We have several other projects, including private sector construction and petrochemicals projects," he added.

"Interestingly, manufacturing and petrochemicals are the top two sectors witnessing an upturn in hiring," said Giulianotti. "There was a slowdown in the manufacturing sector earlier when a lot of workers were laid-off but that is changing now."

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0012009_eb8bdc71cbe34fbdb95f7dc25e4f0834.aspx


----------



## Wannaberich

Imre said:


> you, right but for me the RECOVERY means that the prices rising again.
> 
> I am checking the GN,dubizzle.com,expatriates.com etc every day and still no changes, even same properties for sale since months.


Now with the summer over plus Ramadan we will get a real idea of the shape of the Dubai property market.Its still too early so we need to see over the next 3/4 months what the situation is and if a recovery is on the way.


----------



## jeetha

*Emirates and Etihad Airways start hiring again*

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0012009_f504ed209a264d6796baf66c762cfe46.aspx


----------



## jeetha

I’m so looking forward to my apartment in the Marina, recovery or no recovery. 

It makes no difference to me. 

Will be lovely just to hop on and off the metro.


----------



## bizzybonita

Imre said:


> Reef Tower was handed over in 2008 and they still have 188 free units?:nuts:


In general ,the ministry of interior should press on that visa botton somewhere by next year ...then all things will turn to goods . testing of stability of market without visa is like nothing happened at all "from eye of small investors"... if they will be a delayed a lot of competition already in real estate market such as Qatar, Bahrain , Oman , KSA , Kuwait etc... investors will look for a better options then Dubai .

Dubai need to be a livable city not ghost one ... i repeat livable one for family before single ...end of massage


----------



## bizzybonita

Imre said:


> recovery
> 
> *Property prices near Metro start showing positive signs *
> 
> October 01, 2009
> 
> Residential and commercial properties in the immediate vicinity of the Metro stations could see a potential uplift of *10 to 20 per cent*, an international real estate advisory firm said yesterday.
> 
> "If the Metro proves popular and efficient then it is very likely we will see a significant impact on the values around stations. The early signs have been positive. We consider the potential uplift in the immediate vicinity of the Metro stations, that is less than 400 metres, could be in the region of 10 to 20 per cent for both residential and commercial uses, but this impact will not be even across the station network," said Andrew Edwards, Associate Director at DTZ in a report on the impact of the Dubai Metro on real estate values.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> The impact is also likely to be more significant at certain destinations such as Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT) for residential and Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC) for commercial. This is because there is a high concentration of residential use at JLT and commercial use at DIFC, which is likely to translate into a high level of trip generation.
> .
> 
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0012009_88694131dc884afe82d46bb39f4de141.aspx


without metro effect i can get it from the yearly renewal :lol: can't wait for arabian canal to get build so i can double my rent ratio to 20% ... NO RECOVER


----------



## agod

iownyou said:


> and as i said before the visa is not an issue i think they have done the right thing. yes some people might not work and live in their home and spend some money here and there but i dont think this is the kind of people they want and not every one is going to do this they want productive people who will benefit society over all they want people to give jobs and open companies or people to work. they are laze enought them self theyd otn need more lazy investors with a big belly to walk in the malls and look at the girls they have dont everything right actually



"they are laze enought them self theyd otn need more lazy investors with a big belly to walk in the malls and look at the girls they have dont everything right actually"

I disagree, how did you know me and Mackie anyway? 



The young people here, or the foriegn nationals, that work, do not put anything like the amount of money (pro rata), into this economy as the 50 to 60 year olds that want to live here, just take a look at the lines, that form at the Money Exchange shops in the Malls, that's where there money goe's, its is sent home, and they live here on a shoestring, they sleep ten to a room, and use the cheap eateries in the food courts, also the young Europeans workers are very transient, they all have homes and families elsewhere, and will be off home, as soon as they have earnt a few quid, okay they might buy a car, and spend a few bob in the bars, but the older generation, (he baby boomers) who already have wealth, from a lifetime of work, inheritence from families, and freedom to live where they like, are the spenders, properties bought outright, 100 of thosands of Dirhams in furnishings, top class cars, and they go out more, use the Golf clubs and top restaurants, who actually employ these low paid workers.

Bring in a visa for them, that is a least a renewable 5 year one, and vet them if you must, but a city full of working class people is not the answer, you need to balance it with the residents who are going to use the services that they provide.


ALan


----------



## jeetha

*Property scams, not only in Dubai it’s happening all over the world.*

Got a letter today and just found out, that my letting agent have done a runner with my tenant’s £2000.00 deposit. :bash:

I rung my deposits scheme and they told me :bash: that as a landlord, I am liable for the £2000.00 :bash: deposit because the agent had disappeared.

Why!! I ask “I never had that money in the first place”.

“You! Choose to go with that agent” they said. :bash:

Here are some of the wordings from the letter I received.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

My deposits scheme (UK)

*IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT PROTECTION FOR DEPOSITS 
ARRANGED THROUGH XXXXXX PROPERTY SERVICES LTD*

*Cancellation of Agent’s Membership of this Scheme*

As a consequence, the deposit held by them on your behalf will cease to be protected by this Scheme 60 days from the date of this letter.
You must now act urgently to arrange a new protection for your tenant’s deposits if tenancy end date is to continue past the date stated above. If your agent has already has provided you with details of a new protection this will not be necessary. If you no longer wish to, or are unable to, entrust the task of arranging new protection for deposits to an agent you should personally arrange your own new protection for those deposits.
Mydeposit is not a custodial deposit scheme and we do not physically hold your tenant’s deposit. This Scheme is design to allow your agent to hold the deposit themselves. However, you are not to hold this Scheme responsible for returning to you deposit which have been held by your agent.


----------



## Imre

agod said:


> "they are laze enought them self theyd otn need more lazy investors with a big belly to walk in the malls and look at the girls they have dont everything right actually"
> 
> I disagree, how did you know me and Mackie anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> The young people here, or the foriegn nationals, that work, do not put anything like the amount of money (pro rata), into this economy as the 50 to 60 year olds that want to live here, just take a look at the lines, that form at the Money Exchange shops in the Malls, that's where there money goe's, its is sent home, and they live here on a shoestring, they sleep ten to a room, and use the cheap eateries in the food courts, also the young Europeans workers are very transient, they all have homes and families elsewhere, and will be off home, as soon as they have earnt a few quid, okay they might buy a car, and spend a few bob in the bars, but the older generation, (he baby boomers) who already have wealth, from a lifetime of work, inheritence from families, and freedom to live where they like, are the spenders, properties bought outright, 100 of thosands of Dirhams in furnishings, top class cars, and they go out more, use the Golf clubs and top restaurants, who actually employ these low paid workers.
> 
> Bring in a visa for them, that is a least a renewable 5 year one, and vet them if you must, but a city full of working class people is not the answer, you need to balance it with the residents who are going to use the services that they provide.
> 
> 
> ALan


totally agree with you.

2 people like you and me  are much better than 100 workers (like filipins,pakistani, bangladeshi etc.. nationality not important , just an example) who send back all money in their country and just keep 50-100 dhs/month and spend in UAE every day 2-3 dirhams , just suppose you spend more than 10.000 dhs/month .

My friend moved back to Russia just because of the residence visa, every month he spent around 50.000-100.000 AED just for restaurants,bars,petrol,shopping etc..

Now he is just relaxing in Marbella and spend his money there without job.

He is one of those people who is not interested in about the "setting up free zone company just because of the visa and after do nothing" system thats why he left.


----------



## shagdash

According to UBS, a survey of 73 major cities in the world revealed the average rent for a 3 bed apartment is abt $1450 per month (64000 Dhs per year). Dubai rents are easily double that, higher by 50% of even cities like Tokyo.

There is going to be pressure on rentals for certain. How else will businesses be viable otherwise. And if business moves, so do jobs and then where will all the people to live in all these houses come from?

Once rentals reach a more average and reasonable level of say 80,000 dhms for a 3 bed apt of 1800 sq ft (and you can realise net yields of say 60,000 dhms - subtract maintenance costs per annum at 10 dhms a square feet for 1800 sq ft - and requiring at the most minimum a 6% return (you can get relatively risk free returns by placing your money in a fixed deposit with a bank at 5%) 

And the only way to put a true value on any asset is to discount the income receivable from it with a rate of return that you need from it. And if you can get a rate of return of 5% from a bank without the hassle of all that entails from being a property owner, you would require at least a 6% return.

Then the value of a 3-bed 1800 sq ft property is 1 mn dhms which averages to about 575 dhms a sq ft. 

And we haven't even factored in vacancy costs, any large repair costs, letting agency fees etc.

For those sceptics that say we will never reach 80,000 dhms rentals for 3 bed apts, we are slowly but surely getting there. Rentals are in free fall and will soon reach this level. Friends of mine are renting a 2 bed apt for 75,000 in bur dubai for the last 4-5 yrs. The only way they will move to new dubai is if they can get a relatively better lifestyle at a comparable price. People I know have rented a 3 bed in the marina for 130,000 dhms a few days ago - they still feel it is too much and will try and negotiate a better deal when the contract comes up for renewal next year. A friend pays 40,000 for a studio in JLT currently and says he could've had a 1 bed for 50,000 (but he chose to keep costs low). These are among the majority who make up working class dubai. These are going to be your tenants and these are the people that set what rents will be or won't be. The days of companies giving an expat package of "housing" included, such that ridiculously high rentals were being absorbed by the company are long gone. Now an all inclusive package is the norm - and there will be downward pressure on rentals till supply becomes scarce (which is not to be in the foreseeable future).

A little bit of simple valuation will tell you that property is still overpriced for the income it is capable of generating and will fall further to about 500-600 dhms per sq ft.

http://www.7days.ae/storydetails.php?id=83986&page=local news&title=Property to fall 33 per cent


----------



## agod

iamici said:


> So it's better to be badly educated about a topic than to be informed according to you. Is your first name really Alf?


Firstly dont take the piss.......as I wont rise to it.

My view is quite simple, that education is not worth the paper it is written on, you all trust in the written word, if its written its gospel, not true, what causes most of the strife in the world, the written word, The bible, the quran, the Torah, Karl Marx, Mein Kampf, loads of them out there, all ready to start you off on a road of destruction, journolists who do there research by just googling the subject, you know what I mean, there is to much faith put in the written word, and people should make there own judgement, by doing there own ground work and gaining more experience...............The written word is not to be believed, ask the torch investors and there contracts.........No, dont deride me because I didn't spend 4 years on a piss up at university, and dont have a worhless degree to my name, not my view, but employers not hiring anyone who has one..........

I didnt want to hjack the thread, but lets not lose our sense of humour, please, with these very clever post's that go way over my and others heads.

If you are ever in dubai, my name is Alan, and you are all welcome to pop up for a cuppa.

Alan


----------



## iownyou

the amount of interest any financial instituation pays is never as high as the infletion in that country other wise the bank would loose money . the deposits are money the bank takes and reuses to lend to other people for interest for example they pay you 4% interest they will lend it to others at 8 so they make 4 but they will never give as much as the inflation or they will fail


----------



## mullogutherum

bizzybonita said:


> In general ,_the ministry of interior should press on that visa botton somewhere by next year_ ...then all things will turn to goods . testing of stability of market without visa is like nothing happened at all "from eye of small investors"... if they will be a delayed a lot of competition already in real estate market such as Qatar, Bahrain , Oman , KSA , Kuwait etc... investors will look for a better options then Dubai .
> 
> Dubai need to be a livable city not ghost one ... _i repeat livable one for family before single_ ...end of massage


But aren't these two objectives at least partially in conflict...?

The real-estate investor class, whether flippers, buy-and-hold-to-rent, or buy-and-hold-to-retire types, are all looking for a return to the nirvana of 2004 - 2008, when Dubai was open to anyone prepared to plonk down a down-payment (or ten) on not-yet-developed units. A lot of expat professional types came along for the ride, whether to sell that real estate to other foreigners, or to ride the other dot.com-style businesses that flourished in an era of easy money.

But now you want to see family types (and before I say anything else, I do agree that building Dubai through _sustainably_ tending the interests of citizens and longterm-residents is the right approach). Yet in other posts you gloat over the 20% rental returns you think you are about to experience.

In the short-to-medium term (say, 2 - 10 years) Dubai can have one or the other--a "hot" real estate market, or a steadily growing "real business" economy, but not both. 

There are lots of tax-sheltered economic "free zones" in the wider world. All are trying to attract a self-sustaining nucleus of world-competitive business by reducing or eliminating taxation and red tape. Now that Dubai's initial "Wild West" build-up model has been seriously compromised, it is time to look at what will sustain growth in the longer term.

I see little in these posts (though I do realise they cater to a narrow audience) about how Dubai's non-real-estate economy is faring. To the extent that that information vacuum reflects deliberate policy, it's a mistake.

Real estate, and to a lesser extent banking, have dominated the first chapter of Dubai's development, for both good and ill. But these industries enable rather than sustain economies. It is time to see more about the actual fortunes of Dubai's Internet, Media, and other "real" businesses, rather than about the complexes that house them.

Those are the businesses that will attract "families"--long term settlement devoted to building an economy.


----------



## iownyou

totaly agree with youmullogutherom


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## mackie1964

agod said:


> To many "Big Words" for an idiot like me, looks like academia has taken over the asylum.....................I did alright working on gut instinct, and my own wits, without analytical reports.
> 
> What about capital appreciation on you properties, hold long term, and you will always win, I have other alternative investment's, huge growth, 100% a year plus in some cases, easily transportable, and can be sold anywhere in the globe to anyone else, here's a clue, when someone dies my investments qudruple.
> 
> *Mackie you are exemt from this competion, as you know the answer, a new caramel Mars bar to the winner...........*
> Alan


Respect Don God;
Average brain and average dick here Al but doing more than ok too based on instinct.

You have to remember that many of the big talkers on here still get pocket money and I wouldn't believe most of what they tell you on here.

They don't know who they are missing here with, Godfather  :cheers:


----------



## shagdash

agod said:


> To many "Big Words" for an idiot like me, looks like academia has taken over the asylum.....................I did alright working on gut instinct, and my own wits, without analytical reports.
> 
> What about capital appreciation on you properties, hold long term, and you will always win, I have other alternative investment's, huge growth, 100% a year plus in some cases, easily transportable, and can be sold anywhere in the globe to anyone else, here's a clue, when someone dies my investments qudruple.
> 
> Mackie you are exemt from this competion, as you know the answer, a new caramel Mars bar to the winner...........
> 
> Alan


ok so i will use "layman" language from here on in - except the "big" words were still all plain English - maybe u just needed to "read" them
anyway, this wasn't abt academics, this was abt what is the correct price to pay for property in dubai (cannot get more "real world" than that)
do u know that in japan n in some other east asian "tigers" property values haven't recovered from their fall from peak values in the late 1980s. that is 20 years - almost a "whole" generation - would u consider that "long term"?
this is despite there being a ready seondary market in japan with end users who are allowed to live/retire/invest their lifetime savings in their own country.

there can be capital appreciation "ïf" and only ïf" uv paid the right price. prices don't "automatically" increase over time.
as an idiot's guide - a home to an end-user represents value only because it is shelter, a roof over their heads. THAT is why they pay for it (if they haven't inherited it, ie). they will value it, whether now or in the future in terms of how much rent they can save by buying - so all value is only derived from the only practical aspect of monthly cash flows. 
so capital appreciation is hugely dependant on

a) population growth
b) income growth
c) availability of credit

robert shiller, a yale professor, has shown that inflation-adjusted U.S. home prices increased 0.4% per year from 1890–2004 and 0.7% per year from 1940–2004. 

but of course, hard data, statistics, economics dont interest u...
maybe u should continue gambling ur money on "get rich quick" schemes and hit the jackpot while the going is good and let us poor academicians to our fate of analysing investments in deciding where to place our hard earned


----------



## Wannaberich

UK house prices rise for fifth month in a row.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/oct/02/house-prices-rise-september


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## paul66

*2010 to be great for Dubai Realty*

Gulf News, 02 October 2009
http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10353945.html










Dubai: House prices returning to pre-2007 levels in Dubai will herald in a 'vintage year' for real estate investments in 2010, says a leading industry report.

With the worst part of the financial downturn generally thought to be over, investors are full of optimism and are focusing on 2010.

Happy investors in 2010, dubbed the vintage year for regional real estate investment, will be those owners who ensure their assets are realistically priced, professionally managed and offer stable, long term contractual cash flow, said a recent report by Jones Lang LaSalle. 

"What we can see now is a clear rationale for investment strategy over the next 12 to 24 months and a recognition that the right products located in the right places will attract investment&While short-term concerns around liquidity and over supply remain, a return to 2007 pricing will see Dubai enforce its competitiveness as one of the region's leading destinations for investment," said Ian Ohan, head of Mena Investment Transactions at Jones Lang LaSalle and author of the report.

The entire Mena region was one of the last to feel the hit of the economic downturn but its real estate markets were among the fastest to adjust, with property prices falling up to 50 per cent in certain areas in the past year.

"Sale activity is expected to pick up marginally in 2010 as financial pressures slowly begin to ease and the psychological boost of a new year raises investor sentiment and confidence in the market. Those investors with cash to spend will look to benefit significantly with sales prices now largely prevailing at 2006 levels," said Matthew Green, head of research and consultancy at CB Richard Ellis.

Investors are much happier now with the state of the market than in recent months. This newfound sunny optimism is being primarily driven by the overall economic strength that is synonymous with hydrocarbon-based economies, said the report.

Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia and Qatar are the real estate markets expected to recover first in the region due to stronger economic fundamentals and government initiatives. These three will experience greater increase in pricing and performance in the coming year.

However, Dubai is forecast to grow at a steady rate of four to six per cent per year until 2015, according to Chesterton International.

"It is interesting to note that the balance may even reverse in certain areas. There may well be a shortage of villas in the future as they appear to make up a reducing percentage of the property being delivered over the next few years," said Brendan Coakley, managing director of Chesterton International.

Investors recognise Dubai as regional leader in terms of city competitiveness and real estate infrastructure.

While Dubai's success in the past has been largely built on its name as a city being built from practically nothing and its good infrastructure, concerns remain over the availability of capital for real estate purposes and the supply and demand dynamics.

"The lack of liquidity and the unwillingness of some financial institutions to begin lending in earnest is certainly proving to be a major barrier for the Dubai market. However, what is more concerning is the considerable volume of new stock either completed or in the pipeline, combined with minimal levels of demand. This supply and demand imbalance is really the main issue and an encumbrance that will hinder any future recovery," Green added.

Going into the future emphasis is once again put on the need for increased transparency and honesty from developers, brokers and investors themselves.

However the 'litmus' test, marking the true confidence of the market will come in December when Nakheel is due to refinance its maturing bonds.

If they cannot be paid, this could potentially shake the confidence of the whole industry including government.

"The general feeling is that they will get paid simply because the alternative is far worse," Ohan told Gulf News.


----------



## tehsin123

paul66 said:


> Gulf News, 02 October 2009
> http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10353945.html


I don't understand why we get excited about any report written by companies who have vested interest in the sector. The views will not be independant and tend to be biased. Think about it, if you are an apple seller, what would you tell about apple prices, to crash or to go up. Simple logic. It will be useful to look for independant studies or actual fundamentals, not just some real-estate company's hype. The other day somone as saying 4-6% annual price rise till 2015. Its nice to have pleasant dreams but to make those into realities we have to face situation on ground.
The property here is still priced higher than most countries. In any mature market the prices are about 4 to 5 (or max 6) times of average annual income on individuals. For reference, you can look at this document for UK 
http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snep-01922.pdf

Yes, there are swings back and forth but they get adusted in time. In UAE, what would you say average income (of a qualified property buyer) would be. Arguable, but I'd reckon AED 12,000 i.e. 144,000 per annnum If we multiply this with 5, it is about AED 700K. This should be a middle class property price compared to international standards. You will agree that it is almost twice as much expensive compared to this standard. Ok, even now if you add other factors i.e. sun, taxes, security, that will carry some premium but then deduct instability of policies, geo-political risks, investment risks, those premium may loosely be eroded. So we are back to international standards then i.e. 4-6 times of average annual income. 
So why the prices should shooot up?


----------



## Wannaberich

paul66 said:


> Dubai: House prices returning to pre-2007 levels in Dubai will herald in a 'vintage year' for real estate investments in 2010, says a leading industry report.


:cheers:


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Hi all

I apologise for posting this here - I follow this thread regularly and you guys seem quite knowledgeable about things, so I hope you may be able to answer my question.

I have come across a developer in Dubai who is willing to transfer your investment out of Ajman into their Dubai projects. What I want to understand is how this works, if it was the same company just moving your money from their Ajman project into their Dubai project then that would make sense. But here, the developers in Ajman and Dubai are completely separate and different companies - so how would such a transfer work in this case?

I have spoken to this developer in Dubai and apparently they ask you to sign a document which basically gives them authority over your Ajman properties (and hence relieves you of any future obligations) and at the same time you sign a reservation form with them for the property in Dubai.

If anyone can shed any light on this I'd really appreciate it.


----------



## agod

shagdash said:


> ok so i will use "layman" language from here on in - except the "big" words were still all plain English - maybe u just needed to "read" them
> anyway, this wasn't abt academics, this was abt what is the correct price to pay for property in dubai (cannot get more "real world" than that)
> do u know that in japan n in some other east asian "tigers" property values haven't recovered from their fall from peak values in the late 1980s. that is 20 years - almost a "whole" generation - would u consider that "long term"?
> this is despite there being a ready seondary market in japan with end users who are allowed to live/retire/invest their lifetime savings in their own country.
> 
> there can be capital appreciation "ïf" and only ïf" uv paid the right price. prices don't "automatically" increase over time.
> as an idiot's guide - a home to an end-user represents value only because it is shelter, a roof over their heads. THAT is why they pay for it (if they haven't inherited it, ie). they will value it, whether now or in the future in terms of how much rent they can save by buying - so all value is only derived from the only practical aspect of monthly cash flows.
> so capital appreciation is hugely dependant on
> 
> a) population growth
> b) income growth
> c) availability of credit
> 
> robert shiller, a yale professor, has shown that inflation-adjusted U.S. home prices increased 0.4% per year from 1890–2004 and 0.7% per year from 1940–2004.
> 
> but of course, hard data, statistics, economics dont interest u...
> maybe u should continue gambling ur money on "get rich quick" schemes and hit the jackpot while the going is good and let us poor academicians to our fate of analysing investments in deciding where to place our hard earned


Well Japan is not a good example, because it has a lousy political set up, jobs for the boys, and incestual (spelling remember I am uneducated) goings on, it has no mineral wealth, imports everything, and used to manfacture and export everything, but it has lost out to China and S. Korea, in that field, plus it has lost its work ethic, the new generation just dont want to work for a company from cradle to grave, so property there will probably always be in the doldrums, to turn around it needs to compete with the new boys on the block, get back to work, and invent a new walkman.

Most things increase over time, there is not many people with a 25 year mortgage, that is coming to it's end that has not increased, property I purchased in 1979 has increased in value, I will give you that my Florida places are not doing so well, but time will heal them too.

See you couldn't help yourself, with the Robert Shiller a Yale professor.........no not interested, because the USA is not a good yardstick, show me the figure for Central London, or my place in Dulwich South London, bought in 1984 for 24 Grand, last years value before the crisis 1.2 million......not the whole of the US, where no one was interested in buying property, in a huge land, where a lot of it was given away free, if you went and worked it, I mean 1890 for chrisake, its wild west time, the Yanks only cottoned on to property buying in the last 10 years, and that is my thoughts, no one else's.

No, I dont invest in get rich quick schemes, I invest for long term, I was one of the original Buy to let investors, long before that name was even thought of, when you had to take out a commercial mortgage from the banks, at 2% over base, and you had to cough up 40% deposit, before they even looked at you, I was one of the first to purchase when the dockside wareouses, and properties, where being converted in the early 80's Bristol, Buchanans Wharf, and Glasgow, on the clyde, and many others, all rented out, and obtained capital growth over the years. 

No, I am not the new boy on the block, you lot are, and you can carry on pouring over all the stats you like, till you are blue in the face, but it dont turn me on............I suspect one day when you are old and grey, the penny will drop.

ALan


----------



## agod

mackie1964 said:


> Respect Don God;
> Average brain and average dick here Al but doing more than ok too based on instinct.
> 
> You have to remember that many of the big talkers on here still get pocket money and I wouldn't believe most of what they tell you on here.
> 
> They don't know who they are missing here with, Godfather  :cheers:



Okay...........you win you get the Mars Bars.............I am out of here for the time being.........my brain is melting with all this kiddy talk.

Love to Mrs Mackie and the little ones.

Alan


----------



## speedy333

this form is not even about DUBAI investments anymore lol, you guys are having feuds


----------



## gerald.d

agod said:


> Well Japan is not a good example, because it has a lousy political set up, jobs for the boys, and incestual (spelling remember I am uneducated) goings on, it has no mineral wealth, imports everything...


Sounds familiar


----------



## Naz UK

^^ Britain under New Labour? :dunno:


----------



## shagdash

agod said:


> Well Japan is not a good example, because it has a lousy political set up, jobs for the boys, and incestual (spelling remember I am uneducated) goings on, it has no mineral wealth, imports everything, and used to manfacture and export everything, but it has lost out to China and S. Korea, in that field, plus it has lost its work ethic, the new generation just dont want to work for a company from cradle to grave, so property there will probably always be in the doldrums, to turn around it needs to compete with the new boys on the block, get back to work, and invent a new walkman.
> 
> Most things increase over time, there is not many people with a 25 year mortgage, that is coming to it's end that has not increased, property I purchased in 1979 has increased in value, I will give you that my Florida places are not doing so well, but time will heal them too.
> 
> See you couldn't help yourself, with the Robert Shiller a Yale professor.........no not interested, because the USA is not a good yardstick, show me the figure for Central London, or my place in Dulwich South London, bought in 1984 for 24 Grand, last years value before the crisis 1.2 million......not the whole of the US, where no one was interested in buying property, in a huge land, where a lot of it was given away free, if you went and worked it, I mean 1890 for chrisake, its wild west time, the Yanks only cottoned on to property buying in the last 10 years, and that is my thoughts, no one else's.
> 
> No, I dont invest in get rich quick schemes, I invest for long term, I was one of the original Buy to let investors, long before that name was even thought of, when you had to take out a commercial mortgage from the banks, at 2% over base, and you had to cough up 40% deposit, before they even looked at you, I was one of the first to purchase when the dockside wareouses, and properties, where being converted in the early 80's Bristol, Buchanans Wharf, and Glasgow, on the clyde, and many others, all rented out, and obtained capital growth over the years.
> 
> No, I am not the new boy on the block, you lot are, and you can carry on pouring over all the stats you like, till you are blue in the face, but it dont turn me on............I suspect one day when you are old and grey, the penny will drop.
> 
> ALan


the reason why the price for everything goes up over time is because of inflation. an apple was an apple 20 yrs ago too, but u probably paid far less pounds for a kilo of those than u pay today. similarly, u paid far less for property in the 1970s than u would now. however thats just inflationary growth - but lets not get into economics and debate over inconsequentials just to prove a point. i admit i am guilty of it too. 

my original post was abt valuing property in dubai, the right price to pay per sq ft. 

that number cannot be conjured out of thin air can it? nor can it be arbitrarily quoted just because there is mass hysteria - either on the upside or the downside. 

i used long term cashflows with some fundamental economic reasoning to reach the number of 500-600 dhms per sq ft (give or take 100 dhms - for less/more premium location/quality/desirability). 

with such a lot of experience behind u, u must have a number/range in mind too. so could u please enlighten us?


----------



## MOAF

agod said:


> Well Japan is not a good example, because it has a lousy political set up, jobs for the boys, and incestual (spelling remember I am uneducated) goings on, it has no mineral wealth, imports everything, and used to manfacture and export everything, but it has lost out to China and S. Korea, in that field, plus it has lost its work ethic, the new generation just dont want to work for a company from cradle to grave, so property there will probably always be in the doldrums, to turn around it needs to compete with the new boys on the block, get back to work, and invent a new walkman.
> 
> Most things increase over time, there is not many people with a 25 year mortgage, that is coming to it's end that has not increased, property I purchased in 1979 has increased in value, I will give you that my Florida places are not doing so well, but time will heal them too.
> 
> See you couldn't help yourself, with the Robert Shiller a Yale professor.........no not interested, because the USA is not a good yardstick, show me the figure for Central London, or my place in Dulwich South London, bought in 1984 for 24 Grand, last years value before the crisis 1.2 million......not the whole of the US, where no one was interested in buying property, in a huge land, where a lot of it was given away free, if you went and worked it, I mean 1890 for chrisake, its wild west time, the Yanks only cottoned on to property buying in the last 10 years, and that is my thoughts, no one else's.
> 
> No, I dont invest in get rich quick schemes, I invest for long term, I was one of the original Buy to let investors, long before that name was even thought of, when you had to take out a commercial mortgage from the banks, at 2% over base, and you had to cough up 40% deposit, before they even looked at you, I was one of the first to purchase when the dockside wareouses, and properties, where being converted in the early 80's Bristol, Buchanans Wharf, and Glasgow, on the clyde, and many others, all rented out, and obtained capital growth over the years.
> 
> No, I am not the new boy on the block, you lot are, and you can carry on pouring over all the stats you like, till you are blue in the face, but it dont turn me on............I suspect one day when you are old and grey, the penny will drop.
> 
> ALan


Alan your 100 % right I am with you on this one, stats mean jack all, just a inconsistent historical pattern with no direct implications for me personally IMHO.

My father bought his first house for £1200 in 1975 and rented it out 14 years and sold it for £200,000 in 1989.

Like Alan mentioned, think long term capital growth and you will not go wrong..

MOAF


----------



## iownyou

wtf are you guys talking about lol i got it i got it lets focus on dubai realty does any one think pricess will be as high as hong kong? ever? hong kong price per sqft is almost 30,000 dirhams


----------



## Mistermark

iownyou said:


> the amount of interest any financial instituation pays is never as high as the infletion in that country other wise the bank would loose money . the deposits are money the bank takes and reuses to lend to other people for interest for example they pay you 4% interest they will lend it to others at 8 so they make 4 but they will never give as much as the inflation or they will fail


You're wrong about banks never paying higher interest than the inflation rate. Indeed, it could be argued that, by and large, institutions MUST pay higher interest rates than inflation - if they didn't, nobody would place money with them, because it would depreciate in real terms all the time it sat there.


----------



## iownyou

my wife says i have gone nuts with dubai i should marry maktom the shaikh i told her i dont like hes beard


----------



## shagdash

dubai has priced itself out of the market (as was evidenced by the recent fall, and will be witnessed by a further fall, imo)
no we are not looking for the cheapest, we are looking for what we can afford and realistically pay for - we have other liabilities too - dubai isn't exactly a cheap city to live in.


----------



## shagdash

noir-dresses said:


> what's your take on JLT gerald, lets say when two metro stations open, lakes and landscaping done with grass and vegetation, commercial part open with bars, lounges, restaurants, supermarkets, banks, etc. Hopefully all office space rented and working.
> 
> A big plus would have been NHT
> 
> ???????


sorry to hijack but here's my tuppence worth.

even tho' JLT has the poorer cousin image, imo, property out there in future will sell quicker as it will probably be priced right.
but then u must make sure u invest in it also at the right price.


----------



## shagdash

gerald.d said:


> 1. Location, Location, Location.
> 
> And the one I think is even more important than that -
> 
> 2. Buy the worst house in the best street.


truer nuggets of wisdom, i ain't heard in a long, long time! 
all my research falls flat in the face of those two drops of gold.


----------



## shagdash

agod said:


> Hi Gerald
> 
> Imo, I think The Torch looks good at the moment, and since its nearly there, and the views are pretty good, and they ain't going to build in front for many years......a lot of people are taking an interest in it.
> 
> ALan


do u have property in the torch? would u know what is the per sq ft rate there now?


----------



## agod

I think its in the range of 800 for a studio, and 1100 for a 2 bed..........


----------



## shagdash

i know not many ppl are interested in stats, but if we are able to work out the supply-demand gap, it will make for interesting information

these are dubai's population stats from the municipality

Year Population 
1968 58,971 
1975 183,000 
1985 370,800 
1995 674,000 
2005 1,204,000 
2008 2,262,000

looking at the above we can see a rough doubling every 10 years since 1968 (the year when the first census was done)
however, in the last 3 yrs (between 2005 and 2008) it seems population almost doubled - bucking the long term trend (no doubt fueled by the construction boom workers)

the break up by nationality is here

26.1% Arab (of whom 17% are Emirati)
42.3% Indian
13.3% Pakistani
7.5% Bangladeshi
2.5% Filipino
1.5% Sri Lankan
0.9% European
0.3% American
5.7% other countries

i wonder if anyone has the data as to how many units are coming online in 2009-2010, so we can analyse what the level of demand may be like.


----------



## noir-dresses

smussuw said:


> Speaking of which, ill be locked for 45 days in the police academy starting from tomorrow for my training with no phones, computers or anything.
> 
> try not to miss me


Just don't get stuck in the Blue Oyster while your training at the academy, or else your in big trouble


----------



## baba toto

I haven't got any news I'm afraid, just waiting endlessly......


----------



## Broderick

Dubai-Lover said:


> actually there have been so many threads about specific questions on specific properties like towers.
> 
> in my opinion it has become too much and a lot of double threads have been created.
> 
> 
> this is why i go for a new sticky thread in which everybody is welcomed to ask our members about their views on specific property, private investment ambitions and the property market in general.


Hello...
Iam newbie,, I appreciate the thought of your thread..I wish all the success..


----------



## mackie1964

agod said:


> I think its in the range of 800 for a studio, and 1100 for a 2 bed..........


He/She would be lucky to get a 2bedded in the Torch for less than 1.3/1.4M. 
I was offered 1225/sqft two days ago by my tenant, on another unit in another building (front row in Marina). Its one of the units I picked up for just under AED900/sqft at the beginning of June (you know which one Al) so to enforce Don God's point, location / Marina will always do well but will never return any time soon to previous peak. I am still however planning for total exit from Dubai.

With Respect, God Father :cheers: :master:


----------



## shagdash

mackie1964 said:


> I was offered 1225/sqft two days ago by my tenant, on another unit in another building (front row in Marina). Its one of the units I picked up for just under AED900/sqft at the beginning of June


it is madness to think that prices have increased by 30% in three months. 
i certainly hope ur able to "exit" ur investment at that profit.


----------



## agod

mackie1964 said:


> He/She would be lucky to get a 2bedded in the Torch for less than 1.3/1.4M.
> I was offered 1225/sqft two days ago by my tenant, on another unit in another building (front row in Marina). Its one of the units I picked up for just under AED900/sqft at the beginning of June (you know which one Al) so to enforce Don God's point, location / Marina will always do well but will never return any time soon to previous peak. I am still however planning for total exit from Dubai.
> 
> With Respect, God Father :cheers: :master:


You are of course right............it will be many, many years before it will reach the madness of last year, but you are a man of the World, you don't just sit around, you travel the Globe and see for yourself, you are active in the selection of what you buy..........not just what you read on these threads.

I have sorted my Torch problems, and will just sit on it, and take the rent when it becomes due.........shame you are going to be out of here altogether.........as it would be nice to see you again, as long as you dont sit down.

Al


----------



## Imre

smussuw said:


> Speaking of which, ill be locked for 45 days in the police academy starting from tomorrow for my training with no phones, computers or anything.
> 
> try not to miss me


good news, hopefully they will extend another 45 days! 

:banana::lol:


----------



## Imre

noir-dresses said:


> Just don't get stuck in the Blue Oyster while your training at the academy, or else your in big trouble

















:lol:


----------



## Morrismarina

shagdash said:


> it is madness to think that prices have increased by 30% in three months.
> i certainly hope ur able to "exit" ur investment at that profit.


Mackie's purchase in Iris Blue ?? Probably right selling price at 1,225 sq ft, if true was a steal buying at 900 sq ft. Was it true though ?? I have my doubts..... seeing around same time I sold my TT one bed, poor view of media City at 800 sq ft and it's still a very long way from completion. :weird:


----------



## mackie1964

agod said:


> .....shame you are going to be out of here altogether.........as it would be nice to see you again, as long as you dont sit down.
> 
> Al


I am only talking about deploying my money elsewhere. I will be still doing selective business in Dubai and will always come and pay my respect and bring my own seat unless you import some decent chairs :lol:

Yes I admit it, I broke Don God’s chair and was banned from coming back for his best soup and stake that I heard about. Now Altin will slate me for that :banana::banana:



Morrismarina said:


> Mackie's purchase in Iris Blue ?? Probably right selling price at 1,225 sq ft, if true was a steal buying at 900 sq ft. Was it true though ?? I have my doubts..... seeing around same time I sold my TT one bed, poor view of media City at 800 sq ft and it's still a very long way from completion. :weird:


Those who have little faith?? It was not even the best buy, three weeks after buying my unit, I was offered 40 units portfolio in various buildings including IB by someone you know at average of AED700 but could not afford it. Still love you Morris 
Mark, Al or Charlie can tell you what kind of bargains you could have picked in late May / early June. :cheers:

I actually think that AED1,225 is a bit high at this stage but why should I give her the rent back, after the tenancy contract finish, we can negotiate but for now, I will keep her money thanks :lol: Good indication though that end users are starting to buy again :dunno:


----------



## smussuw

Imre said:


> good news, hopefully they will extend another 45 days!
> 
> :banana::lol:


:bash:hno:


----------



## Imre

smussuw said:


> :bash:hno:


I thought you are already there and will not see my comment


----------



## Imre

mackie1964 said:


> I am only talking about deploying my money elsewhere.


Where would you invest now?


----------



## mackie1964

Imre said:


> Where would you invest now?


Will PM you or tell you in person in a few weeks :cheers:

@smussuw

You will have to get Bin-Dubai to cover for you, people will take advantage of your absence :lol:


----------



## mackie1964

shagdash said:


> dubai has priced itself out of the market (as was evidenced by the recent fall, and will be witnessed by a further fall, imo)
> no we are not looking for the cheapest, we are looking for what we can afford and realistically pay for - we have other liabilities too - dubai isn't exactly a cheap city to live in.
> *home is egypt, and with any money we have left, we will buy there again*.


Had some investments in Sharm El sheikh, Maadi and New Cairo. The Sharm El Sheikh one did extremely well (more than doubled, Naama bay) but sold the New Cairo ones at a big loss as I was not prepared to wait for ever. Small investors like myself are not as well protected as big ones and having to pay money to corrupt people for doing nothing drove me mad but it is an excellent market if you are protected or connected but a night mare if you are a small investor. Your Money would be safer in Dubai or Europe unless of course you are well connected :cheers:

Enough now for a month or so :goodbye:


----------



## Morrismarina

Latest SP advert showing Torch prices. Is this a good price if you're looking to buy in the Marina ??


----------



## montranieri

Morrismarina said:


> Latest SP advert showing Torch prices. Is this a good price if you're looking to buy in the Marina ??


It is good


----------



## Hasnainlali

Imre, what do you think the price for 03 2 bedroom unit in Paloma should be in todays market? Its the front unit with full marina view. BUA is 1597 sqft. Thanks


----------



## Imre

I saw adverts around 2-3 million, but no idea there is any transactions or not thats why I dont know the really value.

Which floor?

found this one , low floor:

AED 2,002,888 
2 Bedroom Apartment - Paloma 
Premier location
Location Dubai, Marina District 
Approx. size 1,597 sq.ft 
View Marina


----------



## iownyou

hi mackie1964

i used to live in egypt for a wile studying arabic with a friend and i was intending to buy a small shooping complex or part of it or even just building it my self. this was in 2008 last year in the biggining. i was living there so i knew there was good foot trafic it was located in al rehab wich i think is the same place as your talking about(new cairo) but the yiled is very very low there it was about 5% yes there was alot of capital appriciation but it was inflated like dubai during the boom times it might be much better now i would have to check i have no contact there anymore. but yea in those countries they are all currupt so need to be carefull.


----------



## porshe911

baba toto said:


> I haven't got any news I'm afraid, just waiting endlessly......


what about refund? :cheers:


----------



## speedy333

no company will give u a refund, its always they disappear or they offer u another unit in different project


----------



## iownyou

more good news 

UAE poised for comeback 
By Babu Das Augustine, Deputy Business Editor
Published: October 04, 2009, 22:59


Dubai: The UAE will be one of the regional economies that will make the strongest comeback from the impact of the global meltdown, according to economists and bankers.

"We believe the UAE is the best positioned country in the region to benefit from the pick-up in global economic activity. Its growth potential is one of the highest thanks to its tax-free, investment-friendly and savings-rich economy," said Turker Hamzaoglu, an economist with Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

According to a report by a group of economists from the bank, region-specific concerns have started to ease and the UAE's long-term growth outlook remains strong. Due to the impact of the global crisis and oil output cuts (9.5 per cent), BoA Merrill analysts expect the UAE's GDP to fall by about one per cent in 2009 followed by a small rise in 2010 to two per cent. 

The latest IMF economic outlook says the UAE economy is expected to shrink by 0.2 per cent this year, compared with an earlier estimate of 0.6 per cent. 

The World Bank expects the country to achieve 2.4 per cent growth in 2010.

The GCC is the only region where year to date bond issuance has reported growth, with the UAE accounting for two-thirds of new issuances. While bonds are improving the overall liquidity, banking sector liquidity has been boosted by government support. 

"The liquidity of banks has improved substantially over the past few months due to government and Central Bank support," said Shayne Nelson, Chief Executive of Standard Chartered Bank, Middle East and North Africa.


http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Economy/10354784.html


----------



## iownyou

more good news

Dubai: Residential prices in the UAE have been more unpredictable this quarter than during the rest of the year.

Villas accounted for 60 per cent of all residential sales in Dubai in the third quarter, with prices increasing by eight per cent on average. Villa prices are likely to remain stable in the short term, according to a recent report by Landmark Advisory.

Apartment prices, in contrast, fell three per cent in quarter three. This may be compared to a 17 per cent fall in quarter two.

"Apartment inventories remain stable with the majority of sellers holding prices and because many distressed sales that were available over the past three to six months are no longer available," Jesse Downs, director of research and advisory at Landmark Advisory, said. 

While the current supply and demand situation in Dubai is far from perfect, demand for apartments is primarily leaning towards more affordable units. Financing remains an issue with financed apartment sales declining to 14 per cent in quarter three.

In terms of leasing, villa rents in Dubai increased six per cent echoing the sales trends which Downs attributes to "considerable demand" stemming from relocation within the UAE.

Unlike the villa segment, Dubai apartment rents dropped 17 per cent during the third quarter.

In Abu Dhabi, listings were increasingly inconsistent with real market values. Average listed prices for apartments and villas increased eight per cent and 10 per cent respectively.

Asked rents in the capital appear stable while agreed rents continue to fall.

"Landlords are gradually adapting to Abu Dhabi's shifting rental market. For example, landlords actually used to prefer high vacancy rates over low rents but are now increasingly willing to negotiate discounts and multi-cheque agreements with prospective tenants," Downs said.

While this year's Cityscape event, which starts today, will not be showcasing the over-the-top projects we have become accustomed to the general consent among industry experts, investors and tenants is that the market is beginning to stabilise.

However, short term concerns remain including those about Nakheel's ability to pay its bond which matures in December.

A recent report by Merrill Lynch, said the UAE's GDP is expected to contract by -one per cent in 2009 with a small pick up of two per cent in 2010.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10354798.html


----------



## dirtyharry1

Imre said:


> I saw adverts around 2-3 million, but no idea there is any transactions or not thats why I dont know the really value.
> 
> Which floor?
> 
> found this one , low floor:
> 
> AED 2,002,888
> 2 Bedroom Apartment - Paloma
> Premier location
> Location Dubai, Marina District
> Approx. size 1,597 sq.ft
> View Marina


On that particular one it is better to be not so on a high floor... because then you have full marina view even when you sit. If you are on a high floor you have to walk to the windows and to look down in order to have a nice view... the lower floor the better.


----------



## noir-dresses

DFM has just passed the 2200 mark, looking good. Now lets get some good signs from Cityscape


----------



## True Blue

dirtyharry1 said:


> On that particular one it is better to be not so on a high floor... because then you have full marina view even when you sit. If you are on a high floor you have to walk to the windows and to look down in order to have a nice view... the lower floor the better.


I had an interesting conversation with a short term leasing agent very recently. He said that it is difficult to rent out apartments on high floors.


----------



## tehsin123

*13:15 05Oct09 RTRS-REUTERS POLL-DUBAI HOUSE PRICES TO FALL ANOTHER 10 PCT IN 2009, PEAK TO TROUGH FALL SEEN AT 60 PCT BY 2010*

13:15 05Oct09 
RTRS-POLL-Dubai house prices to fall another 10 pct in 2009

 * Dubai house prices to fall a further 10 percent in 2009 
* 20 percent chance of picking up before 2011 
* Abu Dhabi house prices to fall 33 pct in full year 2009 

By Jason Benham 
DUBAI, Oct 5 (Reuters) - Dubai house prices appear poised to fall another 10 percent in 2009 as financial woes linger, a Reuters poll showed, in stark contrast to more mature markets in Britain and the United States which are showing signs of life. 
Residential property prices in the former boomtown have yet to reach a bottom and have a 20 percent chance of picking up before 2011, according to the median forecast of nine analysts at banks, investment firms and research institutions. 
The two respondents who said they thought there was more than a 50 percent chance of prices picking up before then expected a rise in the third and fourth quarters of 2010. 
Prices in the Gulf emirate, which boasts the world's tallest building and man-made islands in the shape of palm fronds, are seen falling 50 percent in 2009 from their peaks late last year, and likely a total of 60 percent by 2010, which would amount to a 20 percent fall from current levels, if realised. 
"The real estate market remains subdued as oversupply concerns and lackluster demand continue to characterize the marketplace," said Matthew Green, head of research and consultancy at property services firm CB Richard Ellis in Dubai. 
Dubai is expected to be oversupplied by 32,000 new homes by end 2010, according to recent Deutsche Bank figures. 
"Sales and lease rate declines are starting to abate but further nominal declines could be realized before year end," Green said. 
Two out of nine respondents said they expected Dubai property prices to hit a bottom in the fourth quarter of 2009, four predicted the first half of 2010 and two in the second half. One expected prices to reach a bottom in 2011 or later. 
"We have been consistent with our view that the market will bottom out substantially in the fourth quarter of 2009, but there will be some tail off into the new year," said Chet Riley, an analyst at Nomura Investment Bank. 

MINI RALLY 
Property prices in the emirate have fallen sharply since late last year, when the global financial crisis and a drop in oil prices ended an economic boom in the Gulf Arab region. 
Prices suffered the biggest 12-month fall among global property markets, but declines are easing as global markets recover, real estate brokerage Knight Frank said in September. 
The United Arab Emirates's construction sector has been hardest hit by the downturn, with more than 500 projects on hold or cancelled, and Dubai has been the most severely affected emirate, Dubai-based research firm Proleads said in September. 
Dubai, the Gulf's trade and tourism hub, is one of seven members in the UAE federation. Abu Dhabi is the capital emirate. 
The Reuters poll found that residential rents in Dubai are seen falling by 45 percent for full year 2009 and a further 10 percent in 2010. 
Three out of seven respondents expected rents to fall as much as 50 percent in 2009 and one by 30 percent in 2010. 
"Relative to more established markets rents have normalised but may come under some pressure again in 2010 after the 'mini rally' we are currently seeing," said Nomura's Riley. 
House prices in neighbouring Abu Dhabi, the UAE capital and home to most of the country's oil, are expected to fall 33 percent during full year 2009 and are expected to decline 3 percent in 2010, the Reuters poll showed. 
One analyst expected prices in the capital to fall as much as 40 percent in 2009. 
Both figures have declined from the last poll, published in June, when analysts forecast a fall of 25 percent in 2009 and prices to remain flat in 2010.


----------



## iamici

.......


----------



## Mistermark

Here's another piece of anecdotal evidence the market is improving...

This morning I received an email from an agent offering 'distressed properties in Dubai' - the first for a while. Among them was a studio in Goldcrest Views II in JLT, 396 sq ft, completing in two months (supposedly), original price AED 302,000. All offers invited.

Given that it's a project in its final stages, being sold as 'distressed' and offers invited I reckoned it was someone who didn't have the cash to proceed so went in with a cheeky low offer of 200k, but being prepared to go up to maybe 250k. The agent came straight back to me to say the owner had already turned down 320k and was hoping for 350k.

Back in the Spring I think this would have struggled to get more than AED 600/sq ft as it's an incomplete project; at the time 700 was the going rate for completed units. If the owner gets the 350k he wants, that's nearly 900/sq ft for something not yet complete in JLT, which suggests completed units may be around 1000.


----------



## Imre

Mistermark said:


> Back in the Spring I think this would have struggled to get more than AED 600/sq ft as it's an incomplete project; at the time 700 was the going rate for completed units. If the owner gets the 350k he wants, that's nearly 900/sq ft for something not yet complete in JLT, which suggests completed units may be around 1000.


dont forget , this is studio!

studios and small 1 beds sqft prices are always higher as 2-3-4 beds.

big size of apartments at the JLT you can buy around 700 dhs/sqft or maybe cheaper.


----------



## noir-dresses

UN released there best country by quality of living report today. uae came in 35th


----------



## Morrismarina

What would the UN know about anything ?? The most useless organisation on the planet. hno:


----------



## noir-dresses

I saw the report on that Wanna, mind boggling, good thing I invested on the Croatian coast. The place to be in europe now, prices are holding steady and will get higher in 2012 once they enter the EU, no visa problems, clean, little crime, good food, hot looking women, partyville. 

I'm sure dubai will get back on track, just need to be patient.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai's Rera to release house price index

United Arab Emirates: 18 hours, 16 minutes ago
Mahmoud El Burai, Director, Development at Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) has confirmed that the regulating body is to issue a price index that focuses on the value of properties across the emirate.


Speaking to delegates at the Cityscape Conference in Dubai, El Burai said that the index would be run along the same principles as Rera's rental index, which is currently available on the agency's website, and would be updated on a quarterly basis.

'We are looking at a professional and transparent real estate market, where all parties' rights are protected,' said El Burai, adding that the agency was rolling out a series of initiatives designed to include all main groups within its regulatory framework.

Speaking of Dubai's property market leading up to the crisis in 2008, El Burai said that the sector had 'missed its focus and sense of responsibility,' but added that it was now back on track.

'[2009] has been a long and painful year...but it has taught us to be more creative, effective and ambitious,' he said. 'We have done a lot but there is more to do, this is just the start of it.'

But El Burai added that it was solely up to Rera to manage investors expectations, pointing out that buyers had to take responsibility for their investments. Alluding to examples of investors not properly examining contracts he said: 'We have a responsibility to protect the investors, but the investors also have their own responsibility.'


http://www.ameinfo.com/211293.html


----------



## agod

Yes, lovely place Croatia, I drove the coast road a couple of years ago, and stayed in Opitja, I was caught in a speed trap, 600 of the local currency, he asked did I like Croatia, I said yes, I loved the people and the country, and I would be back, and he reduced it to 300...............Slovenia and lake bled as well, lot's of altenatives to the Med.

ALan


----------



## bizzybonita

Wannaberich said:


> Dubai's Rera to release house price index
> 
> United Arab Emirates: 18 hours, 16 minutes ago
> Mahmoud El Burai, Director, Development at Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) has confirmed that the regulating body is to issue a price index that focuses on the value of properties across the emirate.
> 
> 
> Speaking to delegates at the Cityscape Conference in Dubai, El Burai said that the index would be run along the same principles as Rera's rental index, which is currently available on the agency's website, and would be updated on a quarterly basis.
> 
> 'We are looking at a professional and transparent real estate market, where all parties' rights are protected,' said El Burai, adding that the agency was rolling out a series of initiatives designed to include all main groups within its regulatory framework.
> 
> Speaking of Dubai's property market leading up to the crisis in 2008, El Burai said that the sector had '*missed its focus and sense of responsibility*,' but added that it was now back on track.
> 
> '[2009] has been a long and painful year...but it has taught us to be more creative, effective and ambitious,' he said. 'We have done a lot but there is more to do, this is just the start of it.'
> 
> But El Burai added that it was solely up to Rera to manage investors expectations, pointing out that buyers had to take responsibility for their investments. Alluding to examples of investors not properly examining contracts he said: 'We have a responsibility to protect the investors, but the investors also have their own responsibility.'
> 
> 
> http://www.ameinfo.com/211293.html


Good Morning RERA hno: ....


----------



## agod

^^

More hopeless time and effort wasted on index'es, who is telling them that it is the way to go, so much bullshit, the market will find its on level, wasting money on an index that will be out of date before they even publish it...........they should concentrate on trebling there legal/contract dept, that speaks english, and can act on dodgy contracts, and stop playing with useless indexes, that are just a waste of time.

Alan


----------



## True Blue

Wannaberich said:


> If u think Dubai is bad for ripping off investors then check out Spain.Huge site after huge site of half finished and never to be finished villas and appartments(not to mention when they make u knock down your completed villa)


Hear Hear!

Tens of thousands of pensioners losing everything due to the mass fraud taken place over there and Spanish government doing nothing to help. Infact it is the local goverments who allowed it to happen then next election, new regime in power and the bulldozers are sent in. 

EU courts that have interfered with British laws and order £1M compensation payments to prisoners for lack of ensuite toilets, or permit sick sadistic serial killers(William Beggs) to waste £millions on rediculous appeals trials, but will not step in and protect real victims of government fraud in Spain. Figure that one out!

Dubai's track record is pretty good at dealing with fraudsters.


----------



## AltinD

Speaking of Spain ...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Experts at Cityscape Dubai agree that the steep declines that the emirate's real estate market has suffered over the past year are over, but questions remain about whether a recovery is yet underway and how much of a rally the market will see. 

'The free fall is over, there has been a bottom phase that has been reached,' says Deyaar CEO Markus Giebel. 

'Prices may go down a little bit more, but a 5% fluctuation is not important for the investment community. What is important to them is that prices will not fall 10%-20%. The question now is how long do we stay in the bottom and what does the recovery look like.' 

Charles Neil, CFO, Landmark Properties, agrees that the worst is over, particularly with regards to villa housing. 'They have reached the bottom and are even starting to recover a bit. In the last quarter, villa prices went up about 7% and rents 6%, mainly in the three-to-four bedroom range,' he noted.

'In terms of supply, villas are expected to account for 20% of new units coming on this year, and that is going to start diminishing over the next few years,' he noted.


Surplus apartments

His outlook for the apartment sector is less optimistic. 'With apartments, there is an awful lot of supply coming online next year. We do see a surplus of about 20,000 units in 2010, going up to 60,000. However, inventory is quite low, as there are a lot people who are content to not rent them out. So the big question is going to be what happens to inventory next year. It will be hard to predict,' he said.

However, not everyone agrees that the property market in the emirate has bottomed out. JP Grobbelaar, Director, Colliers International, believes there is still a way to go before there is a substantial recovery in the market. 

'We are going to see a false recovery. People are talking the market up and are very keen to see the market recover and will grab at whatever they can identify as green shoots to support their theory,' he said. 

'However, I believe we are looking at further declines in rentals and property prices in the residential and office sectors. The road to recovery has got to be seen as something that will take a while.' 

He believes the key problem that the Dubai market faces is the amount of supply due to come online. 'The fundamentals are not in equilibrium. The market will only recover when the fundamentals are in the right position. At this point the market is oversupplied,' he said. 


Essential fundamentals

Giebel takes a more positive view of Dubai's future, saying that he believes the emirate's recovery may be similar to that in Singapore. 

'In Dubai, prices have fallen 45%-50% on average, depending on location. In Singapore, they went down 45% in two and a half years, but rose 30% within one year. Dubai's fundamentals are the same as they were two years ago. It still has the largest airline, the largest ports. Any city in the region that wants to catch up with Dubai needs decades; that is not something you can do in two or three years,' he said. 

Neil is more cautiously optimistic, noting that Dubai is 'a very fragmented market which has no clear picture and no clear direction'. 

On the positive side, Dubai's fundamentals have the potential to change a lot more quickly than in other parts of the world, he believes. 'Prices have come down substantially, and the city has the space and the infrastructure. You also have to look at the economies in the region, they are all growing, and a lot of that wealth is going to find its way back to Dubai. It all comes back to liquidity.'

Another factor to consider is that very little property is being financed at the moment. 'When the mortgage market starts to move again, it is going to bring a lot more properties back into the affordable range in terms of financing for a lot of potential buyers. And interest rates are also expected to come down next year as well. After 2010 we see a possibility for a quick turnaround,' he said.


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Figure I've always heard chucked around for the drop in Singapore's prices was 80% from peak to trough. Is that not the case then?


----------



## HateTorch

gerald.d said:


> ^^ Figure I've always heard chucked around for the drop in Singapore's prices was 80% from peak to trough. Is that not the case then?


Drop in 80% ? You must be kidding.
This country does not allow speculations in housing, and have enacted laws to encourage house-buyers to live in instead of renting out. They have even defined certain ratios for different races in different developments to enforce mixed racial interaction.
I am in Singapore now, and I did not hear about any drops or stagnants in prices of houses. 
Investments in houses/realestates in this country is the most safe. Nowadays the talked about news here is not even about recovery.


----------



## ADCBwanajailyou

HateTorch said:


> Drop in 80% ? You must be kidding.
> This country does not allow speculations in housing, and have enacted laws to encourage house-buyers to live in instead of renting out. They have even defined certain ratios for different races in different developments to enforce mixed racial interaction.
> I am in Singapore now, and I did not hear about any drops or stagnants in prices of houses.
> Investments in houses/realestates in this country is the most safe. Nowadays the talked about news here is not even about recovery.


it happened during the Asian crisis, 1997-9 i think (cld be wrong on the dates), it took 3 years to recover back to original levels. RE prices high in sing but not many transactions, yield low at 3-4%....


----------



## ADCBwanajailyou

*If your late with payments, nothing to discuss, of to jail u go so they say*

Abu Dhabi Banks to Jail Mortage holders? ADBC say it is so if your late with payments....
Just spoke to my bank. Pointed out that while my property price halfed and while base borrowing rates from the central bank declined to 2% along with the rest of the world my mortgage went up to 9%

I was informed, that as per there agreement, the alphabet bank could charge what they like. There is no room for negotiation, if you dont pay, police case and of to jail you go.

I am tempted to call them out. Will Dubai police put all 4000 of there customers in jail if they keep putting up rates for pure profit. i notice HSBC and NOOR have rates at around 6% while ADCB at 9%

in the rest of the world, a bank has to declare "your house is at risk if you fail to meet payments", in the UAE should they have to say "your freedom is at risk if you have a mortgage and you loose your job" for example...

anyway, i think the time for some consumer protection has come, local banks are directly negatively impacting the UAE by fleecing trapped customers. So what can be done? suggestions?

and no, not all of us want to do a jack and pack... but where is the central bank and why are they so ineffective at keeping local banks inline... i mean there is profit and there is profit....
ADCBwanajailyou está en línea ahora Report Post Edit/Delete Message


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## gerald.d

HateTorch said:


> Drop in 80% ? You must be kidding.
> This country does not allow speculations in housing, and have enacted laws to encourage house-buyers to live in instead of renting out. They have even defined certain ratios for different races in different developments to enforce mixed racial interaction.
> I am in Singapore now, and I did not hear about any drops or stagnants in prices of houses.
> Investments in houses/realestates in this country is the most safe. Nowadays the talked about news here is not even about recovery.


Sorry, I was assuming the numbers quoted were referring to the Singapore crash of the early 90's, not recent events.


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## Monument

gerald.d said:


> Sorry, I was assuming the numbers quoted were referring to the Singapore crash of the early 90's, not recent events.


You are correct in the 1997/98/99 Asian Crisis Singapore prices came off almost 80% (from a very very high peak) and Hong Kong prices about 70%.

Both recovered strongly over the past 4 years but it took until about 2005 to recover.


----------



## AltinD

gerald.d said:


> Sorry, I was assuming the numbers quoted were referring to the Singapore crash of the early 90's, not recent events.


The current crisis also hit Singapore really, really hard economically.


----------



## agod

AltinD said:


> Speaking of Spain ...



Who's the female in the Doc Martin's? my mum would have said "Stand up straight, and stop slouching"

A


----------



## iownyou

i see 2 problems with uae economy but i might be wrong

1st problem: lack of population i think if the population of u.a.e. would be bigger at least 20 million people then it would be better it would be more of a country and not as a sand box

2nd problem: the arabs are lazy and they dont want to work if they wanted to work more ( i am sure they might change once the oil money runs out) and if they had more manifacturing companies where there is a higher employment and everyone would be working it would be much better


----------



## iownyou

some info to share

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/General/10355387.html

Dubai: Shaikh Maktoum Bin Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Deputy Ruler of Dubai, on Tuesday received Jamie Dimon, Chairman and CEO of JP Morgan Group, who is currently on a visit to the UAE. 

They exchanged views on the latest economic developments in view of the global financial crisis, and stressed the need to overcome the economic downturn and restore the balance of the world economy through coordinating financial policies between countries all over the world.

The talks also touched on the possibility of extending new bridges of cooperation between the JP Morgan Group and UAE financial and economic institutions.


----------



## iownyou

Istanbul: UAE Central Bank governor Sultan Bin Nasser Al Suwaidi said on Monday they would take some time to look at Islamic mortgage lenders Tamweel and Amlak and see what kind of institution the two lenders wished wish to form.

The fate of a merger between the two troubled companies, hit by the Dubai property price downturn, has been under review by a federal government committee since November, when the UAE announced it would merge the firms with two other state-controlled banks.

Asked if Amlak and Tamweel had applied for a joint banking licence to the central bank, Suwaidi said in an interview with Reuters that the committee was looking at the institutions, their requirements and what kind of financial institution they wanted to establish. 
When they decide, their request will be presented to the board of directors of the central bank and the right decision will be taken. But first this will take some time. Things cannot happen overnight," he said on the sidelines of the IMF/World Bank conference in Istanbul.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Banking_and_Finance/10355369.html


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## iownyou

Al Tayer welcomes steps to revive global economy 
Staff Report
Published: October 06, 2009, 23:30


Abu Dhabi: Obaid Humaid Al Tayer, UAE Minister of State for Financial Affairs, participated in the yearly meeting of Arab finance ministers with Robert Zoellick, World Bank President, alongside the annual meeting of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank in Istanbul on October 6-7.

Al Tayer was also part of the preparatory meeting which deliberated on regional economic and financial issues that Arab ministers proposed to discuss with the bank. 

"We support the role of the World Bank, IMF and their reforms to achieve global financial stability, especially steps taken in the light of the global financial crisis. These include the introduction of soft loans, measures to increase investments, adoption of sound policies and long-term programmes to meet urgent needs of low and middle income countries," Al Tayer said. 


We welcome this meeting as it discusses various concerns of the Arab economy and looks deeply into the needs of our region. It also promotes Arab economic partnership, which will benefit all participants."

The meeting emphasised the need for the advanced countries to continue their coordinated and urgent efforts towards implementing policies aimed at helping developing countries, - which are witnessing a decline in capital flows, slow growth and rising poverty - by encouraging domestic demand.

The Arab ministers asked the World Bank Group for more support in various areas, especially with regard to supporting further reforms in Arab economies, improving investment and trade liberalisation, creation of job opportunities for youth with potential.

"The global financial crisis proved the necessity of close cooperation between groups and global financial organisations to face challenges and achieve effective economic partnership, in the light of the recession and economic slowdown the world experiences," Al Tayer said.


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## chefdude

Imre said:


> Did you buy anything or booked ? :lol:


Just booked a seat for a free lunch whilst listening to some sales guy drone on about their retail project in Iran. My ears wonder if there is any such thing as a free lunch :lol: 

Wanted to take a look at the Yas island models you posted pics of mostly


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## noir-dresses

iownyou said:


> i was thinking is a good time to buy some more floors where would anyone tell me i should buy and why?
> i am looking for commericial only
> i was thinking of DIFC or ofcourse BB but DIFC is too expensive so i better to stick to BB does anyone have floors to sell? i am a cash buyer


I'll sell you a nice one bedroom in Ajman, great deal, good investment


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## Cayman

^^
Now they give free lunches?

They must be gettng really desperate!


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## Wannaberich

iownyou said:


> imre i burj is too expensive per sqft i think just because is the tallest building in the world .
> there will be taller buildings in the world so your only paying for the name


Taller buildings?when?


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## shagdash

Today's Freehold - Ad by Meedar

Palm Golden Mile at aed 600 per sq ft.

Nakheel must be getting really desperate to pay back that bond maturing end of the 2009.

Now that I think of it, ads at these prices were released a couple of months ago too. They must still have unsold inventory. 

Also perhaps no sales at Cityscape.


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## paul66

Is'nt Saudi Arabia planning a bigger building?


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## mrobbie

iownyou said:


> true blue
> 
> i think your about right but maybe a litle sooner maybe 2013 2014 but defenelty 2015



I've done some 'guessing' and analysis and come up with something similar to True Blue, with 2016 as my guess for the 2000 sq/ft. I see a bit of a spike when banks start lending more freely and with lower interest rates (hopefully 1st half of 2010?) and people snap up what is seen to be low prices, then it will follow steady growth somewhere in line with inflation going forward, perhaps somewhere around 7-9% per annum. Just my thoughts though...

I can't see prices more than doubling from current levels within 3-4 years, I'm thinking 5-6, so sometime in 2016 is where I was thinking we'd hit 2000 sq/ft.


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## dubaiprojects

*maint charges*

Vaskon sold Marina crown 1 bed room as of size 849 sqf as the size. 
vakson charged aed 10 psf for first year, 12 for second year based on the 849 sqf size of the apartment.

In the 3rd year maint cost is charged @14 psf but the size of the apartment is mentioned as 842 sqf.

Is it possible that they included the service area size in the apartment and now making a correction ....

Cheers


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## True Blue

dubaiprojects said:


> Vaskon sold Marina crown 1 bed room as of size 849 sqf as the size.
> vakson charged aed 10 psf for first year, 12 for second year based on the 849 sqf size of the apartment.
> 
> In the 3rd year maint cost is charged @14 psf but the size of the apartment is mentioned as 842 sqf.
> 
> Is it possible that they included the service area size in the apartment and now making a correction ....
> 
> Cheers


Title deeds!

Developers based apartment sizes on original concept drawings. Lands department ask for fully dimensioned as built floor plans to register with title so there is a good chance things will change and the actual footprint size is recorded on the deeds.

I bought a 2 bed apartment in Dorrabay and the sales agreement recorded 1323ft2. Maintenance was charged on this figure also but now I have the official title deed and it records 1382ft2. I expect next maintenance charge to go up as a result but who's complaining. I got 59ft2 of prime marina/sea view real estate for free worth approx 75,000AED.:banana:


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## beer51

It's gone in your favour because the increase is less than 5% that's why there is no extra charge.


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## dubaiprojects

True Blue said:


> Title deeds!
> 
> Developers based apartment sizes on original concept drawings. Lands department ask for fully dimensioned as built floor plans to register with title so there is a good chance things will change and the actual footprint size is recorded on the deeds.
> 
> I bought a 2 bed apartment in Dorrabay and the sales agreement recorded 1323ft2. Maintenance was charged on this figure also but now I have the official title deed and it records 1382ft2. I expect next maintenance charge to go up as a result but who's complaining. I got 59ft2 of prime marina/sea view real estate for free worth approx 75,000AED.:banana:


Is your dorrabay rented out, for how much? and how much is the maint charges psft?


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## True Blue

Maint charges AED10/ft. Rented at 138,000 1 cheque. Betterhomes valued rental at 200-225k pa.:nuts:

Maybe I accepted too quick? :lol:


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## Imre

good news for the tourism 



Imre said:


> :lol:
> 
> *Dubai Taxi completes installation of deodorants on taxicabs*
> 
> 
> Dubai (United Arab Emirates)
> RTA's Dubai Taxi Corporation (DTC) has completed the installation of deodorants in all the fleet of Dubai Taxi, as part of an effort to boost client satisfaction with the taxi service following complaints from the smelly taxicabs. Installation of deodorants with natural fragrance has been completed in all the 3503 taxis of DTC in early September 2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (RTA)


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## noir-dresses

:rofl::rofl:


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## Naz UK

Only its not so :rofl: when you had to sit in one of the buggers!!


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## Ramin777

Guys,

I've been receiving many calls for my studios in Lake Terrace (JLT) since beginning of October 09. Today, some one offered 600K AED for a studio, approx. sized 500 sqf.
Are there real positive changes in occuring in the market? or this is just an isolated case?
Two of my friends who own two-bedroom units in Al Seef (JLT) told me, again TODAY, that they have had rental offers of 130K for a year. 
What's going on?


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## bizzybonita

and investors still think of a huge growth in real estate next year after Dubai taxi team finally get back together for good this time LOL


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## noir-dresses

Ramin777 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I've been receiving many calls for my studios in Lake Terrace (JLT) since beginning of October 09. Today, some one offered 600K AED for a studio, approx. sized 500 sqf.
> Are there real positive changes in occuring in the market? or this is just an isolated case?
> Two of my friends who own two-bedroom units in Al Seef (JLT) told me, again TODAY, that they have had rental offers of 130K for a year.
> What's going on?


Go for it, and don't think twice. Cash in at that price, you can still buy another studio for less, and put some dough in your pocket


----------



## Imre

luv2bebrown said:


> you own 45 floors of commercial real estate and you're asking for investment advice on a skyscraper website full of 14 year olds?


maybe he is also 14, who knows :lol:


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## gerald.d

^^ He's done bloody well for himself if he owns 45 floors of commercial real estate at the tender age of 14.

Still, they do say kids grow up faster these days, so anything's possible I guess!


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## bizzybonita

Dubai's property market still in 'downward phase of the cycle'



A new report on the state of Dubai's property sector as the market enters the fourth quarter of 2009 has found that all facets remained in the downward phase of the cycle, with prices and rentals likely to continue falling over the rest of the year.

The October Dubai City Profile report, by real estate services group Jones Lang Lasalle, did however include a slightly more upbeat tone, noting that industry insiders considered the worst of the downturn to be over and predicting that the market would stabilise in 2010.

This is attributed in part to the fall in prices re-energising Dubai's competitiveness compared to regional counterparts.

'Dubai has become a more affordable city over the past six months,' says the report. 'It is now recognised that the growth in both activity and asset prices over the past few years was simply not sustainable. With signs that the economy is now 'weathering the storm', there is renewed optimism that Dubai will be able to build upon its first mover advantage to reinforce its position as the region's most competitive city.'

Despite this, the report notes that rents and property values are likely to continue falling through the remainder of 2009, despite the improving investor sentiment, as more units are handed over in the emirate.

The delivery of these extra units is double damaging, as it coincides with a forecast average population drop of 7% to 10% for 2009; while the Dubai Statistics Centre forecasts 5% growth, both EFG Hermes and UBS are more pessimistic - predicting declines of 17% and 8% respectively.

*Metro effect*

The report also underlines that the anticipated 'metro effect' uplift on property prices in certain developments has yet to be felt in the market. A number of similar unit types in six newly-completed blocks in the Jumeirah Lakes Towers development, at varying distances from a station were monitored for prices increases.

No quantifiable differences were found in rental or sales prices, or occupancy rates. This was attributed to the opening of the transit system being only partial, and the need for usage and transit patterns to become more established. Despite this the report is optimistic that the long term impact of the transport project on real estate values will be considerable over the long term.

*Differing trends*

With the changing population trend, as unemployed residents have been forced to leave as work visas have been cancelled, coupled with the low investor sentiment, the trends between sales and rentals has continued to vary.

From Q1 to Q3 2009, though sales transactions have fallen by 15%, leasing figures have risen by 10%, driven by relocations from other emirates, upgrades in current accommodation fuelled by the fall in prices and smaller household sizes. While demand for studios and one bedroom apartments has increased, the need for two bedroom units has fallen.

The report forecasts that a further 66,000 units will be delivered in Dubai over the next three years, a downward revision of 27% based on the ongoing delay in delivery or cancellation of a number of projects.

Up to 20,000 of these units are to be completed in 2009, with delivery stretching into Q1 2010 due to some delays.

*Recovery period*

'The majority of potential buyers are still unable to purchase property [due to financing restrictions],' says the report, noting that 'cash buyers are able to find good deals since they can negotiate down prices considerably.

During Cityscape Dubai, speakers during one conference stream pointed to the current high interest rates and lack of variety in mortgage products as holding back the market. Chris Dommett, CEO of mortgage broker John Charcol Middle East, said: 'There is no differentiation of product between banks as no one wants to be the one to offer something that brings with it a higher risk, although we will likely see a return of buy-to-let products.'

However, he said that recently confidence had started to return to the market, resulting in investors willing to look at purchasing properties. This was borne out by the report, which found that transactional volumes have begun to stabilise, with only a modest decline of 9% reported during Q3 2009. 'While the market is continuing to undergo a price correction, the rate of decline has slowed. Another sign of stabilisation is that asking prices and achieved prices are starting to converge.

'Even if all of the expected units for 2009 are not completed and handed over in time, Dubai's residential market will experience something of an overhang and prices are not expected to recover before the second half of 2010 at the earliest,' the report concludes.

http://www.ameinfo.com/211673.html


----------



## noir-dresses

Imre said:


> maybe he is also 14, who knows :lol:


Not a chance Imre, did you not notice his avatar is from Sesame Steet


----------



## gerald.d

Ramin777 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I've been receiving many calls for my studios in Lake Terrace (JLT) since beginning of October 09. Today, some one offered 600K AED for a studio, approx. sized 500 sqf.
> Are there real positive changes in occuring in the market? or this is just an isolated case?
> Two of my friends who own two-bedroom units in Al Seef (JLT) told me, again TODAY, that they have had rental offers of 130K for a year.
> What's going on?


If someone is after a specific outlook, then 130K is probably quite realistic for a 2044 square footer in Seef.


----------



## Ramin777

gerald.d said:


> If someone is after a specific outlook, then 130K is probably quite realistic for a 2044 square footer in Seef.


I didn't know the size. But still it's better than what they were earlier offered, something around 100K AED.
I personally think any talk of recovery now is just plain stupid, but definitely, the sentiment seems to have changed for the better, for the past couple of weeks.
Let's hope this trend continues till next year.


----------



## sidxb

iownyou said:


> haha yes why not a person is never going to be smart by just listening to them self is best to hear what others have to say before making decisons
> you know i bought property here because my father told me to do it i dont care for the money is just fun to buy properties :grouphug:


IMHO you can sell your 45 floors , chip in the loads of spare money that you have and list your assets with forbes.com as a potential buyer for Eriteria . You can join in list of remaining billionaires capable of buying out economies at 
Countries Billionaires Could Buy 

Do invite me as state guest for my advise :cheers:


----------



## sidxb

^^ Do pm me before you put your floors for sale and give me a day or two to sell my apartment. That inventory is sure to put a downward pressure on market :nuts:


----------



## del1

Greetings fellow Dubai investors.

An action group called ”Concerned Dubai Sports City Investors” has been formed.

This group is for members across Ireland who are concerned about the status of their property in the developments of Bermuda Views, Eagle Heights, Profile Residence, Stadium Point & The World

A committee is in place and legal advice has been sought. We will engage with RERA, the sole Sales Agent, Developers, Legal teams, plus others who can assist the group in gathering the truthful status of our investments and to see how these can be completed or seek refunds.

Please see our website for joiners form and upcoming details of our next meeting;

www.concerneddubaisportscityinvestors.com


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## iownyou

haha
i bought them long ago. i know few people who own floors is it that big of a deal?
it was cheap when i bought them i thought it was a good price compared to real estate here in america. i have no intention of selling them even tho i wish i sold them last year and bought them again this year. but as i said before i am in it for the long run my family is been in the real estate business for many years and we are not rushing kay:


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## iownyou

wanaberich
there is always going to be bigger and taller maybe not soon but it will come


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ are you renting out any of those floors at the moment or just sitting on them empty?


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## iownyou

the buildings are not complete


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## bizzybonita

^^Did you heard that many offices tower want to convert for residential one ? because of limitation of jobs inside U.A.E as everyone knows ( not promising market ) ...and what you think of delayed major area for business till now ? such as business bay ... is there any profit to build it now ( of course not ) as every week with new law publishing ...

what iam seen it... is fallen in office prices could be in future , and little correction in residential part with 2nd crisis coming in next 5years " almost from rebirth of capitalism it will not be that easy to be in track again as back of days will never be like today or tomorrow " ....


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## iownyou

yes ofcourse there needs to be a ballance between residential and commerical property in a healthy economy. what i own is already up and is not going to be residential


----------



## bizzybonita

could you tell me how you think Dubai is a good opportunity for commercial property market nowadays ?!


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## iownyou

i didnt say that:lol: i said there needs to be a ballance between the commerical and residential
i dont think commericial is good now but i think is only going to get better and big players will move here perhaps corporations and financial institutions looking to save money on tax and set base in middle east will see how it goes


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## iownyou

Small and medium businesses key to UAE realty growth 
Gulf News Report
Published: October 08, 2009, 23:25


Dubai: Small and medium enterprises (SMEs) could drive demand for both office space and affordable residential property in the UAE if they can secure bank loans to finance start ups, provide working capital and investment for expansion and growth, according to an industry expert. 

"It is widely accepted that SMEs account for approximately 80 per cent of the UAE's economic activity, which means that collectively they employ a large number of staff, require industrial, commercial and office space and naturally employees need housing. However, they are restricted by a lack of liquidity," said Mohammad Nimer, CEO of MAG Group Property Development. 
According to the Dubai Chamber of Commerce these companies are having trouble securing credit from UAE banks. If they do, the terms are short, usually three to six months and the interest rates for unsecured loans are averaging around 15 per cent due to their perceived high-risk category. 

According to Ruwad Establishment, there are over 260,000 trading and industrial companies in the UAE of which over 200,000, are classed as SMEs. The UAE classifies companies according to the number of employees and the level of investment and in general an SME has less than 100 employees with an investment range between Dh200,000 and Dh2 million.

"Imagine the stimulus to the housing market alone if each SME averaged just one new employee per annum, not to mention the benefits to the wider economy airlines, hotels, restaurants, shopping and so on," added Nimer.

A Dun & Bradstreet report estimated earlier this year that loan rejection rates were in the range of 50-70 per cent due in part to the bank's difficulty in gaining access to accurate financial statements and in rare cases the complex and time consuming process of recovering money or liquidating seized assets.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10355888.html


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## iownyou

Emerging markets shine brightly 
By David Oakley and Gregory Meyer, Financial Times
Published: October 08, 2009, 23:25


For many people the future of investing can be summed up in two words: emerging markets.

This view has been strengthened by the experience of the last two years, when most of the financial problems surrounding subprime, toxic assets, stricken banks and overleverage were features of developed markets, rather than emerging ones.

Moreover, it has been an emerging market - China - that has led the world back from recession, rather than the US, the world's biggest economy, which continues to struggle. 

In other words, this is a crisis that may prove the making of the emerging markets, because during previous bouts of global financial turbulence they have often been harder hit than their developed market counterparts. This time, emerging markets rebounded more quickly, and emerging market assets, particularly equities, have staged far stronger recoveries. 

The improvement has been so great that some commentators even believe that the term "emerging markets" is obsolete. 

Marko Dimitrijevic, Chief Investment Officer at Everest Capital, a Miami-based hedge fund manager, is one of them. "You're basically buying something with similar risk, yet has better growth characteristics."

Jerome Booth, head of research at Ashmore Investment Management, says: "I think people have got to fundamentally rethink their view of the world, the way they do their asset allocation and risk. Brazil has a lower default risk than Italy, given the risk of a messy euro exit.

"There is not much doubt Brazil's macro-economic fundamentals and policy credibility are stronger than Italy's, yet Brazil is an emerging market and Italy is an industrialised country and part of the Group of Seven."

Indeed Brazil's status was enhanced last week when it was selected ahead of Madrid, Tokyo and Chicago to host the 2016 Olympics. And the shift to emerging markets was further underlined two weeks ago when the G20 was confirmed as one of the world's primary international forums, displacing the G7.

The question now is how quickly, emerging markets can progress from exotic to mainstream in the minds of international investors. 

Despite their recent resilience, the average pension fund only allocates an estimated five per cent of its portfolio to emerging markets, yet they make up 30 per cent of the world's GDP, according to the International Monetary Fund.

Mike Gomez, co-head of emerging markets portfolio management at Pimco, says: "Without question this is an asset class that continues to expand and is structurally under invested by the majority of longer term investors. This is an asset class that has gone from exotic to more mainstream over the past 10 years."

The last 10 years has certainly seen emerging markets burst dramatically onto the global investment stage.

Emerging market funds under management globally have increased to a current $563 billion (Dh2 trillion) from $64 billion at the start of 1999, according to EPFR Global, the data provider. Yet, they are still small part of the investable universe compared with the $4,400 billion under management in the developed world. 

Emerging market stocks now make up 11 per cent of the FTSE All World index compared with three per cent in 2000. 

By contrast, developed stocks have seen their share of capitalisation on the FTSE All World index fall to 89 per cent from 97 per cent.

The reversal in fortunes reflects their commitment to prudent economic policies and careful fiscal management. 

Chris Cheetham, Chief Executive of Halbis, the active manager within HSBC Global Asset Management, says: "The emerging markets have had a good crisis. Their position has been strengthened and there is no doubt that more money will flow into the emerging world over the next few years.

"These markets and economies are certain to grow more quickly than those in the developed world over the next five, 10 or 15 years."

Simon Hallett, Chief Investment Officer at Harding Loevner, a $5 billion fund manager based in the US, adds: "Emerging market economies are better managed than they used to be. There's much less debt than there used to be. And individual companies are much, much better managed than they used to be."

The surge in commodity prices since 2002 has also encouraged investors to switch money into these markets as many are rich in oil and resources, with big agricultural sectors.

However, fund managers warn investors against becoming too complacent and simply putting faith in the emerging markets because they are likely to grow at a much faster pace than the developed world.

For a start, investors have to be selective. The emerging markets cover a vast number of countries with very different economic outlooks and investment profiles.

In central and eastern Europe, Poland and the Czech Republic have proved resilient, while Hungary and Ukraine have been forced to turn to the International Monetary Fund for financial support.

In Latin America, Brazil's size and relative stability makes it attractive, but Mexico is more dependent on oil revenues and growth in the neighbouring US. Argentina, Venezuela and Ecuador remain highly volatile and risky.

Cheetham says: "It may be a given that the emerging markets will grow more quickly than the developed markets, but that does not necessarily mean they will offer higher total returns. You may have bigger equity markets and more shares in issue, but that can lead to lower dividends and lower returns. It means investors still have to buy at the right price."

Nigel Rendell, Senior Emerging Markets Strategist at RBC Capital Markets, agrees: "Valuations will remain important. Buying shares on expensive valuations could lead to losses, although countries with superior economic performances should in general offer superior market returns. The future is definitely the emerging markets."

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Business_Feature/10355876.html


----------



## iownyou

wow interesting

Architecture strives for Arab influence 
By Saifur Rahman, Business Editor
Published: October 08, 2009, 23:25


Dubai: Looking at Dubai's modern skyscrapers along Shaikh Zayed Road, the main thoroughfare, one might wonder, is this an Arab city? One would ask the same question after a walk around downtown Abu Dhabi. 

About 13 of the world's 100 tallest skyscrapers are located in Dubai, which also hosts 53 skyscrapers that have exceeded 180 metres in height, according to available statistics. When all the announced 100-plus-storey towers are completed, Dubai will host more than half of the world's total "super-tall skyscrapers."

As Dubai completes the 818-metre-tall, 160-floor Burj Dubai later this year - which is 311 metres higher than its closest competitor, Taipei 101 - another planned 224-storey tower is looking for a suitable foothold in the region - Abu Dhabi or elsewhere. 
Then, where is the Arab culture and heritage? Have these cities lost their Arabic identity? How does one brand them?

These questions usually pop up in the minds of many foreigners while wandering around the city's vibrant neighbourhoods. Downtown looks like "little India" or a "China Town" depending on the crowd on the streets. However, the buildings tell a different story - a miniature version of Manhattan or Dallas downtown?

Did the developers, engineers, architects and designers give these questions proper thought as they raced against time to build the skyscrapers.

These cities of superlatives have, over a very short span of time, outgrown many global metropolises. However, the architects might have overlooked the very aspect of the cities' own identity.

"Because Dubai grew so quickly, the historical aspects of the city got missed out," said Zinon Marinakos, director of DSA Architects International - the company which tried to retain some of Dubai's Arabic culture and heritage in designing Madinat Jumeirah, The Old Town in Burj Dubai Downtown and the Royal Mirage Hotel and Resort.

"Having said that, in certain districts of Dubai, you still see the traditional Arabic designs that are reflected in architecture.

"On the Madinat Jumeirah, the vision of His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, was to recapture the tradition, culture and spirit of Arabia which was lost to the sudden rise of the commercial city of Dubai.

"In most of our projects, we try to reflect the essence of culture and heritage and Madinat Jumeirah, the Old Town and the Royal Mirage are some of them."

Some architects blame it on the clients.

"It's really what the clients want. We go by the briefs given by the client," says Ali Momenzadeh, managing partner of Dubarch, a Dubai-based architectural design farm.

"If Dubai or Abu Dhabi wants to retain or regain the Arabic heritage and culture, the authorities should impose such regulations or identify districts where Arabic-inspired architecture would thrive and that will re-balance the city's landscape and strengthen the Arabic design elements."

However, some people do not mind the vibrant, modern look.

"Dubai is a global city, an international hub where nearly 150 nationalities live and work. It needs to have that international feel as a modern, vibrant city," Anna Klingmann, a New York-based architect and brand consultant, told Gulf News.

"Dubai is more than an Arab city, to me it has an international appeal."

Echoing the same, Ramzi Fatayer, marketing manager of East Models, says, "We are in the age of globalisation. That's why clients and developers cater to the same popular taste while planning and designing a building.

"Also iconic projects such as Burj Al Arab and Burj Dubai reinforce the city's position on the global map and help its branding as a vibrant metropolis. However, you do see Arabic heritage in parts of the city and I think that works well."

Part of the problems, according to Paul Murphy, associate director of Arup - a global engineering firm - is that there wasn't enough reference from which to build the design.

"Around this part of the world, there wasn't much architectural heritage to pick up from. So, most designers picked design concepts from their own practices and went with the client's briefs," he said.

"But having said that, there are now quite a few developments that reflect the Arab culture and heritage, such as the Madinat Jumeirah, Old Town in Burj Dubai district."

He said, the newness and the vibrancy of Dubai inspires new designs and Dubai has been a breeding ground for good architectural designs.

"Since you do not have to get approval from so many authorities and you do not design under so many restrictions, Dubai offers the necessary freedom for designers to come up with some extraordinary designs, which is already visible in the city's skyline."


----------



## Wannaberich

iownyou said:


> When all the announced 100-plus-storey towers are completed, Dubai will host more than half of the world's total "super-tall skyscrapers."


Awesome

(on the other hand Dubai should try to preserve some of its culture also)


----------



## dubaimat

Wannaberich said:


> Awesome
> 
> (on the other hand Dubai should try to preserve some of its culture also)


Just out of curiosity, what kind of culture should Dubai try to preserve? The Burj al Arab already has the shape of a sail, according to some newspapers, the Dubai Metro stations are heritage inspired and got modeled after the shape of a seashell. If that is not enough, just visit the already mentioned Madinat or Bastakiya (a traditional village) in Bur Dubai.

back to reality:

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091008-703890.html

Dubai's Cityscape Ends With Few Visitors, No Deals

On the eve of last year's Cityscape, Dubai's annual real-estate trade show, Nakheel unveiled plans to build a one kilometer-high skyscraper at a glitzy event with guests including actors Catherine Zeta-Jones and husband Michael Douglas.

This year, the government-owned developer made a much more modest appearance, displaying just two of its $80 billion worth of projects at the four-day event, which closes Thursday. Plans for its Nakheel Harbour and Tower development are now on hold.

Since Cityscape 2008, Dubai's property bubble has dramatically burst. Home prices have slumped up to 50% from peaks, lending has slowed and by some estimates close to $300 billion worth of construction is either delayed or canceled.

Many were hoping that this year's Cityscape, usually a barometer of sentiment for Dubai's real-estate sector, would kick-start activity in the emirate's stalled property market, but the lackluster mood in the exhibition halls suggests otherwise.

Organizers say visitor numbers have fallen about 50% to 38,000 from a year ago. Those who are attending are there mainly out of curiosity rather than serious plans to invest in property.

"I'm here to test the market," said one visitor from Saudi Arabia with property investments in Dubai. "There are no new opportunities, but its reassuring to see that there are projects underway. That means there's still money flow here."

With just one project launch at this year's show - a $100 million development in the Kurdish region of Iraq by New Zealand-based developer Atconz Real Estate Development, developers say they are focusing more on project completion and the retention of existing customers.

"2009 is the year of the customer, rather than new projects," said Markus Giebel, chief executive of Dubai's second-largest developer Deyaar.

LOST TOUCH

It's a far cry from last year's event when men dressed as Zulu warriors alternately danced and lounged next to a sprawling scale model of AmaZulu World, a development slated for South Africa, by Ruwaad, a U.A.E.-based company.

During the boom times, some developers spent up to $3 million on exhibition models, entertainers and glamorous promotion girls, according to Donald Trump Junior, executive vice president of the Trump Organization.

"Some people had taken it too far," said Trump. "They lost touch with reality."

In December, plans for a $790 million Trump Tower on Nakheel's Palm Jumeirah were suspended. Trump Jr said earlier this week that the project might be restarted in the next two years.

"I'd love it to happen in the next two years, but it won't be any time soon," he said.

One of the highlights of last year's event was the launch of Meraas Development's $95 billion project called Jumeirah Gardens. The sprawling scale model drew in crowds of visitors. This year, although Meraas' model is on display, the crowds are smaller and the Dubai government-backed real-estate developer admits it is scaling down its plans.

"We looked at the market, the investors, the changing real-estate scenario," said Sina Al Kazim, chief business development officer.

Despite the gloom, there are some murmurings of recovery, or at least the market having hit the bottom.

"Perhaps what we're seeing is a new realism, a reality check," said Blair Hagkull, regional managing director of real estate consultancy Jones Lang LaSalle. "2009 has been the year of contraction. 2010 will see the ushering in of a new era of stability."

By Stefania Bianchi, Dow Jones Newswires; +971 4 3644967; [email protected]


----------



## Wannaberich

dubaimat said:


> Just out of curiosity, what kind of culture should Dubai try to preserve? The Burj al Arab already has the shape of a sail, according to some newspapers, the Dubai Metro stations are heritage inspired and got modeled after the shape of a seashell. If that is not enough, just visit the already mentioned Madinat or Bastakiya (a traditional village) in Bur Dubai.


I figured they could build something in the shape of camel shit.
What do you reckon?


----------



## paul66

*Emaar Chairman expects demand to exceed supply in 1 to 1.5yrs*

*Emaar Chairman expects demand to exceed supply in 1 to 1.5yrs*

Also...for the Western Countries, the British Media and those who wish Dubai to fail...He reiterates the fact that DUBAI IS PART OF THE UAE and help from Abu Dhabi is help from a brother NOT an enemy!

Here's the Video on CNBC...
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1288369317&play=1


----------



## True Blue

^^If I loaned my Brother money, he would soon become my enemy

M A Alibar is a nice guy and a great statesman but he only says what he thinks the Sheikh wants to hear, not facts.


----------



## iownyou

wow i didnt see them last year 

On the eve of last year's Cityscape, Dubai's annual real-estate trade show, Nakheel unveiled plans to build a one kilometer-high skyscraper at a glitzy event with guests including actors Catherine Zeta-Jones and husband Michael Douglas.


----------



## dubaimat

paul66 said:


> *Emaar Chairman expects demand to exceed supply in 1 to 1.5yrs*
> 
> Also...for the Western Countries, the British Media and those who wish Dubai to fail...He reiterates the fact that DUBAI IS PART OF THE UAE and help from Abu Dhabi is help from a brother NOT an enemy!
> 
> Here's the Video on CNBC...
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1288369317&play=1


there is more from this intelligent guy, may be you should re-read what the same Mohamed Ali Alabbar predicted in January 2009

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/544428-dubai-09-property-demand-to-outweigh-supply--paper

*Demand for real estate in Dubai is likely to outweigh supply this year despite the fallout of the global financial crisis, Emaar Properties Chairman Mohamed Alabbar said in remarks published on Thursday*.

"According to the expectations of demand and supply for real estate units for 2009, Alabbar said that there will be a relative demand surplus," daily Al-Khaleej reported, without providing a direct quote.

Alabbar heads a crisis committee set up by the Dubai government to respond to the global financial crisis, which brought to an end an economic boom in the Gulf Arab region.


----------



## dubaimat

iownyou said:


> wow i didnt see them last year
> 
> On the eve of last year's Cityscape, Dubai's annual real-estate trade show, Nakheel unveiled plans to build a one kilometer-high skyscraper at a glitzy event with guests including actors Catherine Zeta-Jones and husband Michael Douglas.


here is the picture (2008 Nakheel had some money to donate left )

http://media.cdn.nakheel.com/portal...ain_nakheel_donates_water_sanitation_proj.jpg


----------



## iownyou

Dubai looking at second tranche of bonds 
Agencies
Published: October 09, 2009, 22:32


Dubai: Dubai's government could issue the second tranche of a $20-billion (Dh73.4 billion) government bond programme as soon as this month, a member of the Dubai Executive Council, said in remarks aired on Friday, but did not give the size of the issue.

Dubai raised $10 billion in emergency cash from the UAE Central Bank early this year through a bond issue as part of a plan to raise $20 billion to finance obligations still pending.

"I am not really sure about the date but maybe October or November would be a reasonable date," Mohammad Al Abbar, also chairman of Emaar Properties, told CNN.

Al Abbar did not give the size of the second tranche, but said: "I think it will be majority government and some private sector, in my opinion," in an apparent reference to the potential buyers of the bonds. 

Investors are keen to see how Dubai is able to tap markets amid the real estate sector slump.

Al Abbar, asked if the UAE economy would recover by 4 to 5 per cent in 2010, said: "Four to five [per cent] ... I would say yes." In September, UAE Central Bank governor Sultan Bin Nasser Al Suwaidi said the economy may shrink or grow slightly in 2009 in the wake of the slowdown, without giving a forecast for 2010.

In April, Dubai said it had refinanced an Islamic loan worth $1 billion for Dubai Civil Aviation, paying $365 million and syndicating $600 million.


----------



## enduser

desertmaster said:


> 1) You cannot (DO NOT )enter your own place unless it is handed over back to you.(it is a crime )
> 
> 2) Go to the rent section in dubai municipality and they will take your complain and give you some paper to post it on the door.
> 
> 3) follow what the paper says (probably 15 days notice)
> 
> 4) after the expiry of the notice you may need 2 witness to open the door (recheck this with the rent dispute section)
> 
> IMHO


15 days nearly passed. What can I do with her furniture. Can I keep it ? Anyone


----------



## iownyou

read your contract,
where did you get your contract?
ask a leasing company ask what are the rules but if she has not paid you then you have the right (in american laws) to get the money you lost from her by getting what you can from the property and if there is nothing there then legaly
i dont want to tell you to keep it because then i would possibly get you in truble but what i would do is change the lock of the apprtment if she owes you money and if she doesent owe you money wait onother 15 days to make it 30 total keep record of you attempting to contact her and send her mail by certified mail with proff to the appartment then this should be ok to cover your self in front of a judge


----------



## enduser

iownyou said:


> read your contract,
> where did you get your contract?
> ask a leasing company ask what are the rules but if she has not paid you then you have the right (in american laws) to get the money you lost from her by getting what you can from the property and if there is nothing there then legaly
> i dont want to tell you to keep it because then i would possibly get you in truble but what i would do is change the lock of the apprtment if she owes you money and if she doesent owe you money wait onother 15 days to make it 30 total keep record of you attempting to contact her and send her mail by certified mail with proff to the appartment then this should be ok to cover your self in front of a judge


Yeah thanks. I have sent her many emails and txt messages. She is abroad and hasnt siad when shes coming back or when she will pay my money. She did say on the phone a few days back that she doesnt now want the apt and this after she agreed she wanted it and agreed the rent. However i have an apt full of her furniture and the tenancy expired last month and she is not communicating with me as a responsible tenant. I have kept a record of all communications & have changed the locks.

Basically can am I entitled to keep the furniture and how much of a stink can she brew up ?


----------



## chefdude

^^

She has probably done a runner, and is just trying to BS you now with false promises and phoney dates of her return. Gave you some advice on contracts a week ago check back through the thread.


----------



## noir-dresses

the weeks market place middle east with city scape, and dubai

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video....cityscape.cnn

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video...ed.alabbar.cnn


----------



## jeetha

^^Keep her furniture, she don’t want it anyway. Inform her that you have thrown it away. And don’t forget to change the locks.

Re-rent the apartment fully furnished.

If she comes back for it, get her to repay you what she owes you in rent before she can remove the furniture.

With that money buy your new tenant furniture.

And don’t worry too much about it. She is not why should you.


----------



## shagdash

noir-dresses said:


> the weeks market place middle east with city scape, and dubai
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video....cityscape.cnn
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video...ed.alabbar.cnn


the cityscape link posted by u isnt correct. this is the correct one
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2008/10/10/mme.b.cityscape.cnn


----------



## noir-dresses

lol, I remember that one last year, what a difference

date's back to 10 Oct, 2008


----------



## shagdash

noir-dresses said:


> lol, I remember that one last year, what a difference
> 
> date's back to 10 Oct, 2008


yep ur right..this is the 2009 one.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2009/10/09/mme.a.dubai.cityscape.cnn


----------



## mohammadakbar

*Marina Suites*



speedy333 said:


> so they just built the foundation and left it like that, what the heck was the point of that ? is this a new scheme to get investors to resume payment and than developer disappears for good?


 I think MiNC have run out of funds to spend on the project. It was stopped due to a road being built in front of it that blocked the entrance to the building. Until this was sorted with the Dubai road development, the contractor "Sheffield" pulled out of building the project and demanded more money from Waterfront development. (a parent company of Minc) that’s where every thing stopped. Minc should return funds back to investors with interest. They are refusing to do this. Should it be a mass action against minc. I think due to Dubai ;land laws. Every investor has to file case for every unit separately? How many members do you have in your groupe? I know of another groupe of investors quite a lot of them but having deficulty agreeing with which course of action should be taken against MiNC. i THINK ALL THESE GROUPS SHOULD GET TOGATHER AT ONE PLACE AND DECIDE A COMMON WAY FORWARD.


----------



## montranieri

jeetha said:


> ^^Keep her furniture, she don’t want it anyway. Inform her that you have thrown it away. And don’t forget to change the locks.
> 
> Re-rent the apartment fully furnished.
> 
> If she comes back for it, get her to repay you what she owes you in rent before she can remove the furniture.
> 
> With that money buy your new tenant furniture.
> 
> And don’t worry too much about it. She is not why should you.


FULLY AGREE


----------



## enduser

jeetha said:


> ^^Keep her furniture, she don’t want it anyway. Inform her that you have thrown it away. And don’t forget to change the locks.
> 
> Re-rent the apartment fully furnished.
> 
> If she comes back for it, get her to repay you what she owes you in rent before she can remove the furniture.
> 
> With that money buy your new tenant furniture.
> 
> And don’t worry too much about it. She is not why should you.


Thanks to all the replies. My concern is can she get the police involved and can they lock up the apt till its sorted. Someone told me this maybe the case and I dont want the new tenant having grief.


----------



## enduser

chefdude said:


> You should check your contract that was prepared at the time of lease.
> 
> Normal Dubai contracts have the following 2 clauses.
> 
> "If the tenant wishes to vacate the Subject of Tenancy or wants to leave town, he should officially inform the Landlord and obtain his consent. If the Tenant leaves without informing the landlord, the Landlord, the Landlord has the right to open the premises in his capacity as the legal owner, and the Tenant has no objection or claim in the future"
> 
> 
> "If the Tenant is absent from the town at the expiry of the period of Tenancy or leaves the premises without the Landlords consent or if he has not paid the balance of the Rent due by him to the Landlord shall have the right to open the premises and lease it to others he finds suitable."
> 
> On the issue of your rent this clause is also applicable
> 
> "Renewal of the Tenancy is at the discretion of the Landlord. If the Tenant does not renew the Tenancy on Expiry date he will have to pay the rent as demanded"
> 
> So if she has not negotiated a lower rent for the coming year she should have to renew at the old rate as she has forfeited any right to renegotiate.
> 
> If your contract has all of those clauses then as suggested you may just want to check they are all enforceable by calling the municipality (RERA)


Hi Chef. Yes those clauses are the exact clauses in my agreement. I cant see why they are not enforceable....after all what are these contract clauses for. Both parties have put signature to them.

Also have been informed that RERA wont be interested and I may be hitting my head against a brick wall.


----------



## Imre

What happens to my property if I die? 
If the property was purchased in the name of an offshore company and you are the sole director then you will need a will in your home country to protect and ensure your family gets immediate ownership of the company. If you purchase in your personal name then to protect all your assets, and to make sure that your estate is distributed as you wish a will should be written. This must be translated into Arabic and notarized at your local Embassy. Top 

http://www.dubaipropertylist.com/faqs.asp#5


----------



## reillycorblimey

*Can Anyone Help?*

Hi Guys, I am looking for some advice
I purchased a 2 bed appartment in the Torch back in January 2006
Its on the 48th floor LPP
Due the the numerous delays, I now find myself in the position of not having enough funds to carry on.
What options do I have?
handing back does not seem to be an option based on some threads I have read.
Is there a possibility of finding a buyer that could pay me what I have invested and take over my payment plan?
I would appreciate anyones views.
( and yes I know I have been nieve )
hno:


----------



## DXBQuantum

very hard to find a buyer for the torch at the moment, off plan marina sales are not at there best....

also the developer will say which is true that everything is going ahead as planned and construction is going ahead.. makes if harder for you to get refund.

maybe you can call them and see if they can give you a better payment option, off set e.t.c - differed payment


----------



## shagdash

234sale said:


> But I am considering to get Pre-Approved with RAK, to see what I can arrange.
> 25K salary so likely 1.4M... I expect..


doesn't getting a pre-approval cost money - and isn't there a finite validity to such approval?


----------



## shagdash

Muted Cityscape ends with industry looking beyond the downturn

United Arab Emirates: 

The Cityscape Dubai 2009 exhibition closed with no major surprises or announcements from exhibitors and muted attendance figures, reflecting the state of the market following the sharp corrections of the past 12 months.
Floor space was much reduced from previous years. Although the majority of the UAE's larger developers had a presence, no new projects were unveiled. 

Indeed, Dubai's two biggest real estate groups, Emaar and Nakheel had initially announced that they would be absent from the show, before performing u-turns in the days before, saying that following 'discussions with the organisers' they would be hosting stands.

Far from the lavish scenes of 2008, which featured gargantuan models and hi-tech imaging displays, cost-cutting was evident in the stands, with exhibitors mostly showcasing scale models of projects under construction or ready for delivery. 

Some exhibitors noted that the lack of crowds was actually a positive development, as 'tourist' visitors were replaced by individuals and groups interested in specific projects and investments, reflecting a more mature expectation of the show.

'We've had enquiries, taken names and will get back to them with pricing,' Waha Land COO Hazem Nowais told AMEinfo.com. 'The show is living up to the true essence of Cityscape...not flipping properties in the carpark.'

Aside from the main stands, Cityscape 2009 featured a number of conference streams on the sidelines of the event, targeting most aspects of the region's property market. The differing views of sector analysts which came out during these sessions show that the future for the market remains unclear.


Conflicting opinions

A panel of experts at one of the Cityscape conference streams told delegates that Dubai's market was showing signs of nearing the bottom, but opinions varied on what shape the recovery would take - and what effect new units, estimated at close to 66,000 over the next three years, coming online would have on prices, which Asteco's Elaine Jones estimated stood at 2006 levels for leases.

' There is no point in hiding the fact that there is excess capacity,' said Dr Hani Shammah, CEO of Abu Dhabi-based Bloom Properties. 'The question is how will Dubai create demand drivers to absorb that capacity? Now it's about diversifying the economy, which they have been successful at.'

Deyaar CEO Markus Giebel and Landmark Properties CFO Charles Neil agreed that the market had likely seen the end of steep prices falls, and that villa prices were beginning to increase, but warned that it would be difficult to chart a recovery. '[Dubai's property sector is a] very fragmented market which has no clear picture and no clear direction,' said Neil.


False recovery

JP Grobbelaar, Director, Colliers International, was more pessimistic: 'We are going to see a false recovery. People are talking the market up and are very keen to see the market recover and will grab at whatever they can identify as green shoots to support their theory,' he said. 

'However, I believe we are looking at further declines in rentals and property prices in the residential and office sectors. The road to recovery has got to be seen as something that will take a while.' 

Jurgen Herre, Managing Director, Hines Middle East agreed, predicting that the recovery would take a 'w' shape. 'Now that speculators are out of the Dubai property sector, it has become a supply and demand driven market, which will hurt the emirate as there is so much inventory in the pipeline,' he said. 'The amount of supply that is coming onto the market in the next few years is staggering. I do not feel there is enough demand to support it.'


Increased regulation

Looking forward, Donald Trump Jnr, Vice President of the Trump Organisation warned that Dubai had to continue to increase transparency and legislation in the sector, as the city was now competing not just against other emerging markets, but also against developed economies. 

Trump noted that during the boom some of the projects announced in the emirate had 'lost touch with reality' and that Dubai should capitalise on its existing and planned infrastructure and legislation when looking beyond the downturn.

In terms of increasing legislation, Rera's Director of Development, Mahmoud El Burai told delegates at one of the conference streams that the agency would release an emirate-wide pricing index, similar to its current rental index. 'We are looking at a professional and transparent real estate market, where all parties' rights are protected,' said El Burai, adding that the agency was rolling out a series of initiatives designed to include all main groups within its regulatory framework.

'[2009] has been a long and painful year...but it has taught us to be more creative, effective and ambitious,' he said. 'We have done a lot but there is more to do, this is just the start of it.'

http://www.ameinfo.com/211899.html


----------



## DXBQuantum

shagdash said:


> doesn't getting a pre-approval cost money - and isn't there a finite validity to such approval?


2000-5000 aed in application costs. 

worth it if your serious.


----------



## lovedubai

Can anyone clarify the latest on what happens if you default on staged payments on a property? What is the actual process if the developer decides to take back the property?
Thanks.


----------



## DXBQuantum

depends on developer they all have different process..


----------



## iownyou

Imre said:


> :lol:
> 
> anyway the 117 m is not good price , its 7625.13 AED/SqFt , better to buy individual units instead of floor there, around 4000 dhs/sqft or even less you can buy now.


if is a stressed sell and a good deal then why not.
as i told you i dont know much about burj dubai so if there is an apportunity then i or some of my friends can pic it up


----------



## iownyou

Imre said:


> What happens to my property if I die?
> If the property was purchased in the name of an offshore company and you are the sole director then you will need a will in your home country to protect and ensure your family gets immediate ownership of the company. If you purchase in your personal name then to protect all your assets, and to make sure that your estate is distributed as you wish a will should be written. This must be translated into Arabic and notarized at your local Embassy. Top
> 
> http://www.dubaipropertylist.com/faqs.asp#5


the uae ambassy or the persons original countrys embassy?


----------



## jagmp

iownyou said:


> if is a stressed sell and a good deal then why not.
> as i told you i dont know much about burj dubai so if there is an apportunity then i or some of my friends can pic it up


what do you call a good deal? Imre has explained in plain english the huge differencen in price between individual unit and the entire floor.infact which should have been cheaper.whether it is a stressed sale or not does it make sence if the price is much higher than buying individual unit.one does not need any special investment knowledge.i think the proverb goes right here.comman sence is uncomman.:nuts:


----------



## mirzazeehan

Hey guys,
I am looking to rent a studio apartment in JLT,and found some for 40,000AED/year.If I rent such an apartment,would I have to pay "maintenance charges"?Or would that be paid by the owner of the apartment?
If I do have to pay for maintenance,then how much do you think it would be apprx per square feet?
Thanks in advance:cheers:


----------



## iownyou

jagmp said:


> what do you call a good deal? Imre has explained in plain english the huge differencen in price between individual unit and the entire floor.infact which should have been cheaper.whether it is a stressed sale or not does it make sence if the price is much higher than buying individual unit.one does not need any special investment knowledge.i think the proverb goes right here.comman sence is uncomman.:nuts:


my friend
i havent bought property in dubai for almost 5 years now i wasent there to flip flop properties like many people here i am sure i bought for long term like i stated before so i dont know what is the price of property now and what is a good or bad deal this is why i asked dumb questions:nuts:


----------



## jagmp

^^

Dubai or any part of the world.i am only reffering to the Imre's post.from his post my 16 year old son could say which one was a good deal.he doesn't know the abc of investment.:cheers:


----------



## Morrismarina

reillycorblimey said:


> Hi Guys, I am looking for some advice
> I purchased a 2 bed appartment in the Torch back in January 2006
> Its on the 48th floor LPP
> Due the the numerous delays, I now find myself in the position of not having enough funds to carry on.
> What options do I have?
> handing back does not seem to be an option based on some threads I have read.
> Is there a possibility of finding a buyer that could pay me what I have invested and take over my payment plan?
> I would appreciate anyones views.
> ( and yes I know I have been nieve )
> hno:


Handing back is definitely not an option and even if it was I would certainly not recommend it. Best option is to phone Select Property and speak to Carl or David at Wilmslow if you are in UK. They sold my TT unit back in May (was on SPP) and have just found me a buyer for my BC unit (on LPP). I think there is a fair market for TT units given it is fairly well constructed so not of course off-plan any more. Seems there are quite a few buyers out there for TT, but you must be prepared to be realistic about your price. As you are on LPP then a buyer will simply take over your LLP plan.
I got original SPP price for my TT one bed which was a non Marina view. Not sure what price you paid but you did buy reasonably early on, I reckon you might if lucky be able to recoup all that you have paid out so far. Making a profit may be unrealistic though but be guided by SP, price depends on how quickly you want to get out. The resales department did a good job and I was very pleased with SP overall. Hope this helps.......send me a PM if you need any help or further advice.


----------



## jeetha

^^Hey Morris are you completely out of BC & TT?


----------



## Morrismarina

Yes........ although BC sale in early stages at present.


----------



## iownyou

jagmp said:


> ^^
> 
> Dubai or any part of the world.i am only reffering to the Imre's post.from his post my 16 year old son could say which one was a good deal.he doesn't know the abc of investment.:cheers:


again your not following us
i told imre a wile back that i wasent interested or sure to buy in burj dubai because i wasent familiar with pricess and i would think it was best to buy when it was lounched and not now. so he told me is better to buy units then full floor because is cheaper and i responded by saying if is a good deal why not i was talking about our privies conversation and not the one from yesterday anyways as i said price is too high and i dont think is worth it the hipe is done and pricess wont double in 1 year again so no point in buying it now unless somone is exreamly desperete for cash and selling it dirt cheap for the same amount i bought many floors and get a better rental return this is even too much for me i am not as rich like imre :cheers:


----------



## TMZ

117 is good price considering the person paid 119 for it, so you get 2 million dirham discount right away..... It is not my unit but a friend of mine whos invested tens of millions in dubai since 2002, moving his money to the states for now.


----------



## iownyou

yea is great time to buy some assets now in the states but most people tied up all the cash there is some great investments in texas to be done on retail shooping centers good cap rates araund 9% avarege with national tenants so guaranteed rent thats what i been looking at buying now


----------



## dubaiprojects

TMZ said:


> anyone that cant afford 117million dhms says its overpriced, you do realize its burj dubai... full residential floor.... once the building is completed you wont find it for less than 120 million dhs, iam not here to make a sale on a forum, just thought someone would know someone and that someone would know someone and that someone would know someone who would be wealthy enough to purchase it. I am not a sales agent lol, no money for me , I have enough investments to keep me going into retirement.
> 
> But anyways Hes not looking to sell for anything lower than 117, even an amateur at this game would know the price hikes when the tower is constructed, in 1 year you will be getting a bargain if someone sells the same thing for 125 million dhs.


No offence intended, but for just common sense sake, if its so simple that in 1 year your friend can make 125 million dhs, why dont you give an advise to wait and not sell for a loss of 2 m. 

Cheers


----------



## shagdash

25% of Dubai homes lying empty - Colliers
by Soren Billing

Wednesday, 14 October 2009 

PRICE PREDICTION: A large majority of developers polled at Cityscape saw house prices in Dubai falling further. 

Real estate company Colliers said on Wednesday that 25 percent of residential units in Dubai were lying empty as the impact of the global downturn continued to hit the emirate's property sector.

The findings, published in a new report, also showed that nearly three quarters of developers (71 percent) surveyed at the Cityscape Dubai show said they believed house prices still had not reached the bottom.

The poll of 28 developers, undertaken by Colliers, also revealed that only 18 percent had suspended sales in projects until the market showed signs of recovery.


The new report showed that office capacity in Dubai was expected to double in the next year, putting pressure on prices.

Colliers said that the current vacancy rate for both residential and office accommodation in the emirate was 25 percent. It said that residential rents were down by 49 percent in the third quarter of 2009, compared to Q3 2008.

Average asking prices in Dubai residential sales also fell 12 percent from the first quarter to the third quarter.

"It's going to be a long and slow recovery," JP Grobbelaar, director of research, said without predicting when the recovery would start. He added that while there had been no mass buying of distressed properties, Colliers did still see opportunities for investors in Dubai.

On rents, Grobbelaar added: "If I were a landlord I would rent my property to the first person who could pay the rent because rents are going to decline."

The report noted that there were currently 340,000 units in Dubai and Colliers saw another 75,000 being completed in Dubai over the next two years. It said that prices would only start to recover once demand exceeded supply.

Colliers said it saw office capacity increasing from three million to six million sq m by 2011, saying projections were based on confirmed projects only. It added that the office market had been the worst hit by the global economic slowdown.

Average Dubai office prices were down 58 percent in the third quarter, Colliers said, compared to the same period last year, while office rents fell 44 percent in the same period.

Retail rents, the report added, had fallen 18 percent in the past year based on new and renewed rents in the emirate.

In a Reuters poll compiled last week, analysts at banks, investment firms and research institutions said Dubai house prices appeared poised to fall another 10 percent in 2009.

Residential property prices in the former boomtown have yet to reach a bottom and have a 20 percent chance of picking up before 2011, according to the median forecast of nine analysts. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/570475-25-of-dubai-homes-lying-empty---colliers#comment-76410


----------



## shagdash

^^^^

yet in my conversation with some real estate agents many landlords have withdrawn their properties from the market despite them being vacant as they hope for some miraculous price recovery....my guess is they will have to wait for the next generation of suckers to come along :lol:


----------



## skdubai

I was helping a friend look for an apartment yesterday.. we went to this apartment in Bur Dubai which was a 1br and pretty tiny (probably 700 sqf). The guy told us that the rent was 65000 1chq. We just walked out of there without a word. He called us today and says... if you are willing i can offer you 50000 4 chq's...

Seriously, some ppl are still living in lala land!


----------



## tehsin123

*25% of Dubai homes lying empty - Colliers*



skdubai said:


> I was helping a friend look for an apartment yesterday.. we went to this apartment in Bur Dubai which was a 1br and pretty tiny (probably 700 sqf). The guy told us that the rent was 65000 1chq. We just walked out of there without a word. He called us today and says... if you are willing i can offer you 50000 4 chq's...
> 
> Seriously, some ppl are still living in lala land!


No wonder he dropped it so much. Actually this report is frightening if you think that more supply is on its way in next 12 months.

Real estate company Colliers said on Wednesday that 25 percent of residential units in Dubai were lying empty as the impact of the global downturn continued to hit the emirate's property sector.

The findings, published in a new report, also showed that nearly three quarters of developers (71 percent) surveyed at the Cityscape Dubai show said they believed house prices still had not reached the bottom.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/570475-25-of-dubai-homes-lying-empty---colliers


----------



## shagdash

^^^^

yes frightening for those who bought at inflated levels


----------



## skdubai

^^ i cannot get myself to feel bad for someone who actually thought 1m+ for studio apartments (and those kinds of prices) was a good deal!!!


----------



## cayman1

On bayut i see today appartment in lake hotel at 1500 aed/sqft is possible ?


----------



## cayman1

655sqft 1000000 aed


----------



## aflatforme

*yeah*

Yeah, I got the same email.
Did any body know about the internal roads around to the building and or any thing..
Last week, i visited Nakheel stall at City scape. They took all my inquiry about the jumeirah viallge internal accommodates. So I am waiting for them to call.

And also I come to know, from the account manager meeting that, 
Usually on handover every buyer has to pay some 1% to land registration and 1% to DEWA some thing like that. But luckily he said that, they have already paid everything to Land registration and Dewa. So that on handover, we nothing has to pay for any thing. It was everything included in the apartment price.
So enjoy guys with Al Tajir.


----------



## Philippa C

I think when reports talk about rents and prices falling they do not take location into account, they just talk about averages. 

Where we live there is a very rapid turnaround in villas - someone moves out one day and couple of days later another family moves in. A lot of people seem to be moving from other areas to here. Rents where we are have stabilised and are even going up again. So I think that a nice area/good location will always rent well for a reasonable amount while old, crappy places will lose thier tenants. Every mature market is the same; some areas can achieve a better rent/price because of the location. 

Until now location, build quality and facilities have not seemed to play a role in determining price because there was a shortage but we are starting to see the wheat being separated from the chaffe. 

Good areas will rent/sell for good prices and less attractive places will only rent for a low price - it is good for the city as a wider range of accommodation will be available for people on a variety of budgets and we'll won't see again poor guys living in their cars/renting bed spaces or simply places to shower. A couple of guys on a low salary could pool together and rent an apartment in I City - it was always intended to be low budget accommodation but managers from Atlantis are living there. Lower prices mean more people can afford to live in Dubai which is what is we need.


----------



## anacreon

Anyone know if the office is still open, or have all staff packed up and gone? 

If so, I guess that's the end of the project and many investors will have lost shedloads of money!


----------



## cayman1

I think offices in BB and DIFC are the product that are lose less then all other product in dubai offices or appartment right or not ?


----------



## iownyou

shagdash said:


> 25% of Dubai homes lying empty - Colliers
> by Soren Billing
> 
> Wednesday, 14 October 2009
> 
> PRICE PREDICTION: A large majority of developers polled at Cityscape saw house prices in Dubai falling further.
> 
> Real estate company Colliers said on Wednesday that 25 percent of residential units in Dubai were lying empty as the impact of the global downturn continued to hit the emirate's property sector.
> 
> The findings, published in a new report, also showed that nearly three quarters of developers (71 percent) surveyed at the Cityscape Dubai show said they believed house prices still had not reached the bottom.
> 
> The poll of 28 developers, undertaken by Colliers, also revealed that only 18 percent had suspended sales in projects until the market showed signs of recovery.
> 
> 
> The new report showed that office capacity in Dubai was expected to double in the next year, putting pressure on prices.
> 
> Colliers said that the current vacancy rate for both residential and office accommodation in the emirate was 25 percent. It said that residential rents were down by 49 percent in the third quarter of 2009, compared to Q3 2008.
> 
> Average asking prices in Dubai residential sales also fell 12 percent from the first quarter to the third quarter.
> 
> "It's going to be a long and slow recovery," JP Grobbelaar, director of research, said without predicting when the recovery would start. He added that while there had been no mass buying of distressed properties, Colliers did still see opportunities for investors in Dubai.
> 
> On rents, Grobbelaar added: "If I were a landlord I would rent my property to the first person who could pay the rent because rents are going to decline."
> 
> The report noted that there were currently 340,000 units in Dubai and Colliers saw another 75,000 being completed in Dubai over the next two years. It said that prices would only start to recover once demand exceeded supply.
> 
> Colliers said it saw office capacity increasing from three million to six million sq m by 2011, saying projections were based on confirmed projects only. It added that the office market had been the worst hit by the global economic slowdown.
> 
> Average Dubai office prices were down 58 percent in the third quarter, Colliers said, compared to the same period last year, while office rents fell 44 percent in the same period.
> 
> Retail rents, the report added, had fallen 18 percent in the past year based on new and renewed rents in the emirate.
> 
> In a Reuters poll compiled last week, analysts at banks, investment firms and research institutions said Dubai house prices appeared poised to fall another 10 percent in 2009.
> 
> Residential property prices in the former boomtown have yet to reach a bottom and have a 20 percent chance of picking up before 2011, according to the median forecast of nine analysts.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/570475-25-of-dubai-homes-lying-empty---colliers#comment-76410


:cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

Forecasts for lower real estate prices in Dubai

*Is expected to decline in property prices in Dubai by another 20% with the increase in supply in a market already suffering from the surplus in a time of declining demand.*

The Pocket Grobbelaar, director of research and consultancy at Colliers International research prices will stabilize once the demand exceeds supply, but it is unrealistic to place a further drag on prices in the residential sector by 20%.

And damage to the real estate sector in Dubai, hard hit by the financial crisis that led to the decline in prices by 48% since last year.

Grobbelaar said that 71% of the 23 companies polled by Colliers develop their views *at Cityscape this month, believes that Dubai has not yet reached the height of the landing.
*

He added that there is *an increase in the supply current by 25% in a market in the residential sector.
*

He stated that there were concerns in particular about oversupply in the market today, which is *340 thousand housing units and a couple of years there will be 75 thousand units.*

He warned that if there is no significant growth in population during the next two years is expected to remain oversupplied for the foreseeable future.

*And that things will be better off in the commercial property market is expected to grow office space in Dubai rose by 100% between 2009 and 2010.* 

" i guess he want to tell us by 2010-2011


----------



## iownyou

UAE is third on HSBC global confidence list 


UAE is third on HSBC global confidence list. (EB FILE) 





By 

Staff Writer on Thursday, October 15, 2009 

On a day of positive cues, market buoyancy and a strong showing by oil, the UAE made it to the number three spot on HSBC's Trade Confidence Index.

The index released yesterday had the UAE as one of the top three most confident countries in the world on trade activity and growth, scoring 118 points, up three per cent from the previous quarter.

China at 121 and Indonesia at 120 took the top two spots.

For people looking for encouraging benchmarks, Dubai Financial Market provided its highest close for 2009. The index jumped 69.46 points, or 3.02 per cent, to end the day at 2373.37 points

The index's bellwether stock, Emaar, led the rally advancing 6.54 per cent to close at Dh 4.89, also its highest this year. 

To cap a day of highs, crude rose above $75 a barrel in New York, again a highest this year, on optimism that the global economic recovery and fuel-demand growth will accelerate.

In fact, oil climbed for a fifth day as the dollar declined and equities advanced around the world.

The HSBC survey said the outlook for the global economy was more positive as compared to recent surveys and, as the above data shows, the UAE's improved sentiment may not be misplaced or misguided. 

The HSBC index covers 12 markets, including key economies in the Asia-Pacific region, the UAE, Brazil, the UK and the US.

More than 3,500 trade-oriented small and middle-size corporates participated in the survey.


----------



## iownyou

Banks reluctant to lend on incomplete projects 


Some lenders have restricted lending to one property per applicant. (EB FILE) 





By 

Anjana Kumar on Thursday, October 15, 2009 

About 80 per cent of the financial institutions are reluctant to consider loan applications in developments that are not complete, according to Colliers International.

In a report on the Mena overview for the third quarter, the real estate consultancy said 70 per cent of the banks surveyed set the minimum monthly salary requirement at $5,450 (Dh20,018) for mortgage loans. 

The minimum salary in the UAE for residential properties was in the range of $2,725 to $5,450 per month. There were 13 financial institutions in Colliers survey. 

About 77 per cent of them are currently providing residential property loans, although there has been a significant tightening of lending terms and conditions. 

The loan-to-value ratios (LTVs) have been lowered to 50 to 85 per cent whereas in 2008 the LTV's saw a high of 99 per cent.

Although 60 per cent of the respondents indicated no distinction between loans to purchase an apartment and/or villa, the remaining respondents showed a preference for villas over apartment units. Thirty per cent of the financial institutions said they have restricted refinancing on existing property, mainly due to the declining property prices and reduced equity of the investor. 

Lenders, meanwhile, have restricted the approval of loan applications to applicants working in specific industries, notably the property industry, because of the impact these sectors have suffered in the downturn. 

Eligibility for loans is now linked to the applicant's length of service in the UAE, requiring a minimum period of six months to two years to qualify for a loan, said Colliers. Besides, 40 per cent of the lenders surveyed have restricted lending to one property per applicant. 

The artificial inflation of property prices by speculators prior to the third quarter of 2008 deterred many long-term investors from entering the market. "Results from the survey, however, would seem to indicate a growing demand for property finance from investors with longer term objectives such as home owners or buy-to-lease investors," said the report. 

Credit needs

Lenders reported a hardening of credit requirements for both residential and commercial property loans. This follows the sharp decline in property values witnessed by the industry over the past 12 months as well as the industry aversion to undue risk. 

They are expecting the credit standards to ease significantly over the next six to 12 months. Project finance is focused mainly on government-linked developers, while funding for new developments are not favourably viewed, funding for on-going projects are still considered and subject to the credit worthiness and reputation of the developer demand.

The overall demand for residential property finance and refinancing has declined. However, end-users and long-term investors are now entering the market, stimulated by reduced property prices. Lenders expect demand for residential properties to revive in the next six to 12 months. 

The demand for commercial property finance has also declined over the past three to six months. Downsizing of corporations and delays of previously announced expansion plans has contributed to these declines. 

The demand for and availability of project finance has dropped in Dubai, while demand for Abu Dhabi remained unchanged. The demand by first-tier developers for funding of current, on-going projects is expected to increase defaults.

Default rates, on both commercial and residential property lending were reported to have increased, however mortgage providers are constantly negotiating with existing customers to ease payment terms and are taking proactive measures including so-called "installment holidays", to keep defaults at minimum. Most of the banks also experienced rise in loan defaults during the past six months. 

The commercial property market has been more severely affected by the economic downturn than the residential segment. 

Unlike the residential property market, the value of commercial property is a factor of the net income the property yields to the investor. Yields are, however, affected by occupancy levels and rental rates which in turn mirrors the global business environment and economic performance and which will also affect the demand for commercial property. 

About 55 per cent of the banks said they are at present against lending on commercial properties. The average LTVs range from 65 per cent to 85 per cent with interest rates between 4.5 per cent and nine per cent per annum. Despite the current limited liquidity in the market, 57 per cent of the respondents said lending criteria and loan restrictions were likely to ease during the next six to 12 months. 

Developers are finding it increasingly difficult to raise funding for projects due to turbulent credit markets and the lack of appetite for development in the market. Prior to the downturn, developers were able to fund projects by using loan finance as well as the proceeds from the off-plan sale of units. The Escrow laws that came into effect in the recent past has eliminated the free access developers previously had to investors' funds. The appetite for lending in the sector among international banks has always been low, leaving the dominant role to be played by local banks.

According to the survey, there were limited financing options available for developers. Only 42 per cent of the lenders surveyed considered lending for development projects, but are now more cautious in lending and require detailed studies on the performance as part of the approval process. 

A clear preference is indicated for government-linked major developers over private developers. Although financing for new developments are not favourably viewed by lenders, financing for current, on-going projects are still considered based on the credibility of the developer.

Project finance 

The survey showed only little demand for project finance during the past six months. It was the general opinion among the participating lenders that the demand for project financing witnessed a significant decrease in Dubai, while demand for projects in Abu Dhabi remained unchanged.

Following project delays, cancellations and redundancies among developers, lenders collectively agreed that credit for project finance will remain strained in the short term. 

About 86 per cent of the lending institutions surveyed had an optimistic outlook for project finance, indicating a minimum of 12 months to witness a positive change. The rest of the lenders did not see a decrease in project finance, but rather an unchanged situation remaining throughout 2010. 

On the office market, the average occupancy rate for the office sector including Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC) was about 36 per cent. In a series of surveys conducted by Colliers, the result showed the highest occupancy rate was on the Sheikh Zayed Road, which currently registers at 84 per cent, a decrease from previous survey at 98 per cent. "The fact that we are witnessing a decrease in the occupancy rate, by 14 per cent, within the same buildings indicates both downsizing and possible relocation as we have seen corresponding increases in occupancy rates in all other areas surveyed except for Sheikh Zayed Road," said Colliers.

Downtown Dubai has recorded a one per cent rise in occupancy rates between the first quarter of 2009 and the third quarter of 2009, while Jumeirah Lake Towers saw the highest increase in occupancy rates from six per cent during the same period.

The average occupancy rate, including the rate for office units under fit-out, is expected to reach 44 per cent in the coming three to six months. The lowest demand for Dubai office space is currently registered in Tecom C, with an occupancy rate of eight per cent with a further one per cent under fit-out. 

Rental rates in Dubai have continued their downward trend amid the financial crisis, starting after the peak in the third quarter of 2008. Landlords are currently witnessing 24 per cent decrease between the first quarter and the third quarter of 2009. 

Average rental, covering the surveyed areas, currently stand at $469 per square metre. In DIFC, the average rentals stood at $1,100 per square metre per annum. 

The largest fall in rental was registered in Jumeirah Lake Towers, 56 per cent between the first quarter and the third quarter of 2009.


Abu Dhabi leasable area supply Estimates decline

Colliers has scaled back initial supply estimates in Abu Dhabi from 1.65 million square metres net leasable area to 1.05 million sq m during 2009-2011.

The largest stock of forthcoming supply is scheduled to enter the market in 2011, adding more than 521,000 sq m, leading to cumulative supply of 2.45 million sq m in 2011 and an increase by 55 per cent between 2009 and 2011. 

Abu Dhabi office market is expected to see an oversupply in the first quarter 2010. It was earlier expected that demand-supply equilibrium will match by end-2010. 

Due to announced cancellations and delays, additional planned office stock to enter the market in 2009 constitutes 271,900 sq m leading to a cumulative supply of about 1.68 million sq m. 

Rental trend

Unsatisfied demand for office space on one hand, and limited supply entering the market over the past few years on the other manifested in sharp rental increases and maintained an upward trend for 2008. 

Despite limited primary grade office space entering the market in 2008 and limited supply forecasted for 2009, the office sector witnessed its first decrease by 20 per cent in first quarter 2009 and have thereafter continued its downward trend showing a decrease by 18 per cent between first quarter and third quarter 2009. 

Demand for commercial space has declined as a direct result of the economic downturn, creating a downward pressure on the average asking rental rates and concurrently sales prices. 

Residential units rise

Abu Dhabi residential sector will consist of about 188,000 units by year end, an increase by 1.3 per cent over 2008. 

Current demand for all types of residential property in Abu Dhabi has outstripped available supply, with occupancy levels of about 97-98 per cent reported across the city. Despite the undersupplied residential sector, the average rental rate in Abu Dhabi has declined. Rental rates are adjusted according to demand and supply and therefore, during current circumstances with an undersupplied market, the rents should rise.

Current average rental rate at $425 per sq m per annum shows a decrease by 18 per cent between first quarter and third quarter 2009. 

Similar attributes, amid the downturn, can also be observed for Abu Dhabi residential sales prices. Growth since launch date has been strong with an average price appreciation of 70 per cent. The demand for affordable housing has increased significantly since the financial crisis started affecting the UAE. 

The middle-income category has been undersupplied for many years, but developers such as Aldar, Sorouh and Al Qudra are following the same trend and are directing investments towards the construction of affordable housing, which will be offered between $1,466 and $2,932 per sq m. 

As of 2008, Abu Dhabi residential sector had a shortage in supply by 50,000 units leading to a cumulative shortage of 120,000 units by 2013. 

Due to insufficient supply by 2011, Abu Dhabi residential sector will require an additional supply of 49,000 units over 2012 and 2013.


----------



## dubaimarina2008

UAE is third on HSBC global confidence list 

On a day of positive cues, market buoyancy and a strong showing by oil, the UAE made it to the number three spot on HSBC's Trade Confidence Index.

The index released yesterday had the UAE as one of the top three most confident countries in the world on trade activity and growth, scoring 118 points, up three per cent from the previous quarter.

China at 121 and Indonesia at 120 took the top two spots.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0152009_ee184e5e44414cf1bfa855c7ac67a71f.aspx


----------



## iownyou

dubaimarina2008 said:


> UAE is third on HSBC global confidence list
> 
> On a day of positive cues, market buoyancy and a strong showing by oil, the UAE made it to the number three spot on HSBC's Trade Confidence Index.
> 
> The index released yesterday had the UAE as one of the top three most confident countries in the world on trade activity and growth, scoring 118 points, up three per cent from the previous quarter.
> 
> China at 121 and Indonesia at 120 took the top two spots.
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0152009_ee184e5e44414cf1bfa855c7ac67a71f.aspx


please read before reposting same article twice:bash:


----------



## Chuckles4

*Dubai in The Amazing Race*

On Sunday October 18th, the new episode of "The Amazing Race" will feature Dubai. This program has a huge viewer base worldwide and with a full hour being devoted to Dubai, it is bound to generate a great deal of interest and will be a huge boost for tourism in Dubai.

For those who aren't in North America, you can download the episode via a torrent.


----------



## Jesus.C

*Hi rent @ Diamond Views 1*



podium said:


> Jesus, I know its 'off topic' but you mentioned your friend renting in Diamond Views 1............I would be interested in his opinions of the development, and I suppose slightly curious as to why he chose it when there are so many other options..............you or he can PM me if you wish


*Hi Podium

Yeah I visited my friend and its ok for the size but not an amazing finishing guess the rent was fair although nothing is surrounding it just in the middle of the desert Its in the middle of the circle therfore it will be a very dusty trip to reach there!!*
*The following are some of the ads of the rent KINGSFIELD I can send u there contact if u want to ask but the building is getting filled quickly!*

*Jumeirah Village South, Diamond Views - Studio*
AED 30,000 p.a. 
Jumeirah Village South, Diamond Views - Studio, AED 30,000. Available. 
Location: Jumeirah Village South, Dubai
Property type: For Rent – Flats
Number of bedrooms: studio


*Jumeirah Village South, Diamond Views - 1 B/R*
AED 40,000 p.a.
Jumeirah Village South, Diamond Views - 1 B/R, AED 40,000. Available. 
Location: Jumeirah Village South, Dubai
Property type: For Rent - Flats
Number of bedrooms: 1



* Jumeirah Village South, Diamond Views - 2 B/R*
AED 60,000 p.a.
Jumeirah Village South, Diamond Views - 2 B/R, AED 60,000. Available. 
Location: Jumeirah Village South, Dubai
Property type: For Rent - Flats
Number of bedrooms: 2


----------



## DXBQuantum

cayman1 said:


> On bayut i see today appartment in lake hotel at 1500 aed/sqft is possible ?


no chance.


----------



## Opus 2009

Philippa C said:


> I think when reports talk about rents and prices falling they do not take location into account, they just talk about averages.
> 
> Where we live there is a very rapid turnaround in villas - someone moves out one day and couple of days later another family moves in. A lot of people seem to be moving from other areas to here. Rents where we are have stabilised and are even going up again. So I think that a nice area/good location will always rent well for a reasonable amount while old, crappy places will lose thier tenants. Every mature market is the same; some areas can achieve a better rent/price because of the location.
> 
> Until now location, build quality and facilities have not seemed to play a role in determining price because there was a shortage but we are starting to see the wheat being separated from the chaffe.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ^^
> Exactly my thoughts! The rents on PJ shoreline apartments have risen since Ramadan.


----------



## paul66

DOW JONES PASSES THE CRUCIAL 10,000 MARK!

It's as if the Recession never happened!!! Optimism is in the air.


----------



## gerald.d

paul66 said:


> DOW JONES PASSES THE CRUCIAL 10,000 MARK!
> 
> It's as if the Recession never happened!!! Optimism is in the air.


Err, didn't the DJI peak at over 14000?


----------



## paul66

yes but going back above 10k during and economic downturn is quite a substantial rally.


----------



## paul66

*In today's FT: Dubai begins to expel demons*

15/10/2009: article source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5157d054-b8da-11de-809b-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1

It is a strange, but telling, reaction: some commuters in Dubai are breathing a sigh of relief when they hit traffic jams.

“I rejoice when I grind to a halt,” says one businessman, who has watched with growing unease over the past year as vehicles disappeared from the roads as building activity fell silent and companies reduced the size of their workforces.

The gloom after the crash that followed Dubai’s period of petro-dollar and credit-driven growth is starting to clear, and residents have returned from the extended summer and Ramadan lull to a city that feels as though it is expelling its economic demons.

ChartThe first post-break test has been cleared: schools have not seen marked reductions in returning pupils. Analysts had feared that an expatriate exodus would dampen domestic consumption and slash demand for real estate.

Several schools surveyed by the Financial Times have reported strong enrolments, from the high-end Repton School Dubai, a boarding school outpost of the English public school, to the cross-cultural educational empire of GEMS, which has seen numbers rise 5 per cent this year.

“Not many children have left, the school is bustling,” said Debbie Watson, head teacher at King’s School Dubai, where demand has peaked after a strong performance in last year’s debut schools inspections.

Real estate remains in the doldrums, with values half of their peak last year and an overhang of almost finished properties, but there are glimmers of hope.

Dubai can now fight back as a competitive city: its infrastructure and lifestyle are now bolstered by reasonable prices, says Blair Hagkull, regional managing director for Jones Lang Lasalle, the global property agent.

Plummeting rents have also allowed workers to bigger accommodation in better areas and agents say some residential areas are seeing more sales inquiries, possibly presaging a price rise. Many of those finding work in booming Abu Dhabi are using the western end of more relaxed Dubai as a dormitory, commuting up to three hours a day.

“The mood is changing and I can feel confidence strengthening as those that tried to suggest Dubai would be hollowed out by a summer expatriate exodus or brought to its knees by a drop in property prices have been proved wrong,” said Simon Williams, senior economist with HSBC in Dubai.

He argues that as the regional economy strengthens, demand for the business services that are Dubai’s forte will return, while domestic deflation will help the city to compete more effectively.

Already the stock market has rallied, insurance against a government default is easing and markets assume the Dubai government will clear developer Nakheel’s $4.05bn Islamic bond maturing in December.

“Dubai still has very serious challenges to overcome,” says Mr Williams. “I expect the next 12 months to be an awful lot better but don’t confuse this with a return to the boom days.”

Yet even with the newly-found optimism, the emirate continues to face hurdles in its path to growth, from an overbearing debt mountain to a huge property supply against questionable demand.

And in the meantime, Dubai-based expatriates continue to lose their jobs.

Nakheel is shedding at least 300 staff, as it continues to shrink its once-huge workforce towards a third of its peak.

One employee recently made redundant says he is seeking other work before his resident’s visa elapses in two months, but fears for the ability of the developer to carry on with such a skeleton staff.

For now, he keeps busy touring the shops, in between meetings and job interviews. And such jobs are generally on offer in the centres of growth, such as Abu Dhabi, Doha and Saudi Arabia.

“I like this area and want to stay, but will there be something for me here?” he asks.


----------



## houshang

In all property markets, in a down turn the secondary locations always suffer the most and recover the last.


----------



## TerryPop

iownyou said:


> Banks reluctant to lend on incomplete projects
> 
> 
> Some lenders have restricted lending to one property per applicant. (EB FILE)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By
> 
> Anjana Kumar on Thursday, October 15, 2009
> 
> About 80 per cent of the financial institutions are reluctant to consider loan applications in developments that are not complete, according to Colliers International.
> 
> In a report on the Mena overview for the third quarter, the real estate consultancy said 70 per cent of the banks surveyed set the minimum monthly salary requirement at $5,450 (Dh20,018) for mortgage loans.
> 
> The minimum salary in the UAE for residential properties was in the range of $2,725 to $5,450 per month. There were 13 financial institutions in Colliers survey.
> 
> About 77 per cent of them are currently providing residential property loans, although there has been a significant tightening of lending terms and conditions.
> 
> The loan-to-value ratios (LTVs) have been lowered to 50 to 85 per cent whereas in 2008 the LTV's saw a high of 99 per cent.
> 
> Although 60 per cent of the respondents indicated no distinction between loans to purchase an apartment and/or villa, the remaining respondents showed a preference for villas over apartment units. Thirty per cent of the financial institutions said they have restricted refinancing on existing property, mainly due to the declining property prices and reduced equity of the investor.
> 
> Lenders, meanwhile, have restricted the approval of loan applications to applicants working in specific industries, notably the property industry, because of the impact these sectors have suffered in the downturn.
> 
> Eligibility for loans is now linked to the applicant's length of service in the UAE, requiring a minimum period of six months to two years to qualify for a loan, said Colliers. Besides, 40 per cent of the lenders surveyed have restricted lending to one property per applicant.
> 
> The artificial inflation of property prices by speculators prior to the third quarter of 2008 deterred many long-term investors from entering the market. "Results from the survey, however, would seem to indicate a growing demand for property finance from investors with longer term objectives such as home owners or buy-to-lease investors," said the report.
> 
> Credit needs
> 
> Lenders reported a hardening of credit requirements for both residential and commercial property loans. This follows the sharp decline in property values witnessed by the industry over the past 12 months as well as the industry aversion to undue risk.
> 
> They are expecting the credit standards to ease significantly over the next six to 12 months. Project finance is focused mainly on government-linked developers, while funding for new developments are not favourably viewed, funding for on-going projects are still considered and subject to the credit worthiness and reputation of the developer demand.
> 
> The overall demand for residential property finance and refinancing has declined. However, end-users and long-term investors are now entering the market, stimulated by reduced property prices. Lenders expect demand for residential properties to revive in the next six to 12 months.
> 
> The demand for commercial property finance has also declined over the past three to six months. Downsizing of corporations and delays of previously announced expansion plans has contributed to these declines.
> 
> The demand for and availability of project finance has dropped in Dubai, while demand for Abu Dhabi remained unchanged. The demand by first-tier developers for funding of current, on-going projects is expected to increase defaults.
> 
> Default rates, on both commercial and residential property lending were reported to have increased, however mortgage providers are constantly negotiating with existing customers to ease payment terms and are taking proactive measures including so-called "installment holidays", to keep defaults at minimum. Most of the banks also experienced rise in loan defaults during the past six months.
> 
> The commercial property market has been more severely affected by the economic downturn than the residential segment.
> 
> Unlike the residential property market, the value of commercial property is a factor of the net income the property yields to the investor. Yields are, however, affected by occupancy levels and rental rates which in turn mirrors the global business environment and economic performance and which will also affect the demand for commercial property.
> 
> About 55 per cent of the banks said they are at present against lending on commercial properties. The average LTVs range from 65 per cent to 85 per cent with interest rates between 4.5 per cent and nine per cent per annum. Despite the current limited liquidity in the market, 57 per cent of the respondents said lending criteria and loan restrictions were likely to ease during the next six to 12 months.
> 
> Developers are finding it increasingly difficult to raise funding for projects due to turbulent credit markets and the lack of appetite for development in the market. Prior to the downturn, developers were able to fund projects by using loan finance as well as the proceeds from the off-plan sale of units. The Escrow laws that came into effect in the recent past has eliminated the free access developers previously had to investors' funds. The appetite for lending in the sector among international banks has always been low, leaving the dominant role to be played by local banks.
> 
> According to the survey, there were limited financing options available for developers. Only 42 per cent of the lenders surveyed considered lending for development projects, but are now more cautious in lending and require detailed studies on the performance as part of the approval process.
> 
> A clear preference is indicated for government-linked major developers over private developers. Although financing for new developments are not favourably viewed by lenders, financing for current, on-going projects are still considered based on the credibility of the developer.
> 
> Project finance
> 
> The survey showed only little demand for project finance during the past six months. It was the general opinion among the participating lenders that the demand for project financing witnessed a significant decrease in Dubai, while demand for projects in Abu Dhabi remained unchanged.
> 
> Following project delays, cancellations and redundancies among developers, lenders collectively agreed that credit for project finance will remain strained in the short term.
> 
> About 86 per cent of the lending institutions surveyed had an optimistic outlook for project finance, indicating a minimum of 12 months to witness a positive change. The rest of the lenders did not see a decrease in project finance, but rather an unchanged situation remaining throughout 2010.
> 
> On the office market, the average occupancy rate for the office sector including Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC) was about 36 per cent. In a series of surveys conducted by Colliers, the result showed the highest occupancy rate was on the Sheikh Zayed Road, which currently registers at 84 per cent, a decrease from previous survey at 98 per cent. "The fact that we are witnessing a decrease in the occupancy rate, by 14 per cent, within the same buildings indicates both downsizing and possible relocation as we have seen corresponding increases in occupancy rates in all other areas surveyed except for Sheikh Zayed Road," said Colliers.
> 
> Downtown Dubai has recorded a one per cent rise in occupancy rates between the first quarter of 2009 and the third quarter of 2009, while Jumeirah Lake Towers saw the highest increase in occupancy rates from six per cent during the same period.
> 
> The average occupancy rate, including the rate for office units under fit-out, is expected to reach 44 per cent in the coming three to six months. The lowest demand for Dubai office space is currently registered in Tecom C, with an occupancy rate of eight per cent with a further one per cent under fit-out.
> 
> Rental rates in Dubai have continued their downward trend amid the financial crisis, starting after the peak in the third quarter of 2008. Landlords are currently witnessing 24 per cent decrease between the first quarter and the third quarter of 2009.
> 
> Average rental, covering the surveyed areas, currently stand at $469 per square metre. In DIFC, the average rentals stood at $1,100 per square metre per annum.
> 
> The largest fall in rental was registered in Jumeirah Lake Towers, 56 per cent between the first quarter and the third quarter of 2009.
> 
> 
> Abu Dhabi leasable area supply Estimates decline
> 
> Colliers has scaled back initial supply estimates in Abu Dhabi from 1.65 million square metres net leasable area to 1.05 million sq m during 2009-2011.
> 
> The largest stock of forthcoming supply is scheduled to enter the market in 2011, adding more than 521,000 sq m, leading to cumulative supply of 2.45 million sq m in 2011 and an increase by 55 per cent between 2009 and 2011.
> 
> Abu Dhabi office market is expected to see an oversupply in the first quarter 2010. It was earlier expected that demand-supply equilibrium will match by end-2010.
> 
> Due to announced cancellations and delays, additional planned office stock to enter the market in 2009 constitutes 271,900 sq m leading to a cumulative supply of about 1.68 million sq m.
> 
> Rental trend
> 
> Unsatisfied demand for office space on one hand, and limited supply entering the market over the past few years on the other manifested in sharp rental increases and maintained an upward trend for 2008.
> 
> Despite limited primary grade office space entering the market in 2008 and limited supply forecasted for 2009, the office sector witnessed its first decrease by 20 per cent in first quarter 2009 and have thereafter continued its downward trend showing a decrease by 18 per cent between first quarter and third quarter 2009.
> 
> Demand for commercial space has declined as a direct result of the economic downturn, creating a downward pressure on the average asking rental rates and concurrently sales prices.
> 
> Residential units rise
> 
> Abu Dhabi residential sector will consist of about 188,000 units by year end, an increase by 1.3 per cent over 2008.
> 
> Current demand for all types of residential property in Abu Dhabi has outstripped available supply, with occupancy levels of about 97-98 per cent reported across the city. Despite the undersupplied residential sector, the average rental rate in Abu Dhabi has declined. Rental rates are adjusted according to demand and supply and therefore, during current circumstances with an undersupplied market, the rents should rise.
> 
> Current average rental rate at $425 per sq m per annum shows a decrease by 18 per cent between first quarter and third quarter 2009.
> 
> Similar attributes, amid the downturn, can also be observed for Abu Dhabi residential sales prices. Growth since launch date has been strong with an average price appreciation of 70 per cent. The demand for affordable housing has increased significantly since the financial crisis started affecting the UAE.
> 
> The middle-income category has been undersupplied for many years, but developers such as Aldar, Sorouh and Al Qudra are following the same trend and are directing investments towards the construction of affordable housing, which will be offered between $1,466 and $2,932 per sq m.
> 
> As of 2008, Abu Dhabi residential sector had a shortage in supply by 50,000 units leading to a cumulative shortage of 120,000 units by 2013.
> 
> Due to insufficient supply by 2011, Abu Dhabi residential sector will require an additional supply of 49,000 units over 2012 and 2013.


Cun't you just post the link with a brief description?


----------



## skdubai

paul66 said:


> yes but going back above 10k during and economic downturn is quite a substantial rally.


It is a short lived rally... too much optimism for the current state of affairs. The negative growth has stopped, but the US is a while away from actually growing again and this is going to hit home eventually!


----------



## Wannaberich

TerryPop said:


> Cun't you just post the link with a brief description?


(he says quoting the whole f ing post)
:lol:


----------



## dubaiprojects

*Building names*

There are lots of photographs of birds eye view of Marina and JLT.
I am looking for the same view which covers all buildings but with each bldg tagged with its name, does any one has such a drawing?

Cheers


----------



## 234sale

Can you remove your link from under your name please. I dont want to have to do it for you.


----------



## AltinD

dubaiprojects said:


> There are lots of photographs of birds eye view of Marina and JLT.
> I am looking for the same view which covers all buildings but with each bldg tagged with its name, does any one has such a drawing?
> 
> Cheers


O rly? Do you want us to do the (sale) talk for you also? :lol:


... end yeah, remove the link before we do it "on your behalf"


----------



## 234sale

Can you find some buyers for me please too...


----------



## dubaiprojects

**



234sale said:


> Can you find some buyers for me please too...


It was just a simple query to match the project names to what you see in photographs. Chill out man, I have removed the link. Happy now? 

Cheers


----------



## 234sale

Thanks for understanding the NO AGENT - NO ADVERT policy we follow.


----------



## dubaiprojects

234sale said:


> Thanks for understanding the NO AGENT - NO ADVERT policy we follow.


Thanks quite alright, so coming back to my request?


----------



## 234sale

Better than walking the plank, me laddy....

Check that there Marina Thread, full of gold I tells ya.


----------



## tehsin123

*New car registrations drop 42% in Dubai in H1*

The number of new cars registered in Dubai in the first half of the year dropped by 42 percent, compared to the same period in 2008. his compared to a total of 147,033 new vehicles being registered in the first half of 2008.

It doesn't look like this on roads. I know traffic is less but just fractionally. 50% should make the roads and parkings almost empty.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/570682-new-car-registrations-drop-42-in-dubai-in-h1


----------



## 234sale

http://cmt.asteco.com/demowebsite/pdf/reports/20091001_astbro054_2009q3_abudhabi.pdf

Asteco Abu Dhabi Q3 2009 Report

I should get the Dubai one in a bit


----------



## Morrismarina

234sale said:


> http://www.ameinfo.com/212476.html
> 
> 
> 
> Lending is still bad, supply will increase with some major projects completing, interest rates are reasonably high. I predict a second wave of decline which we are about to face. Just my estimation.


I agree with you Sale those are all reasons why prices could go down further. When people take the opposite view such as "prices will start rsing in 2011" they never state why. There is massive oversupply to come on stream, especially in the Marina and there cannot be an endless amount of folks wanting to commute from Abu Dhabi to Dubai.


----------



## Imre

*Press release*
Immediate release 18 October 2009

*Sale prices pick up for prime Dubai apartments *

*Communities with completed facilities are preferred choices; but rental rates see minimal change, says Asteco report*

Apartment sales prices for completed projects in the prime Downtown Burj Dubai area have seen the highest quarter-on-quarter increase of 8%, according to the largest property services company in the United Arab Emirates.

In its Dubai Q3 2009 report, Asteco says sales apartment prices for Downtown are up from AED1,200 per square foot in the second quarter to AED1,300 per square foot in the third quarter, “thanks to the Dubai Mall, the Dubai Fountain and improved infrastructure in the area“ which is overlooked by Burj Dubai, the world’s tallest building nearing completion.

However, across the whole of Dubai sale prices for completed apartments and villas have increased only slightly with an average 1% and 3% compared with the second quarter, according to the report. Rental charges have seen minimal change compared with the same period.

Asteco, which carries out comprehensive property market analysis, says Jumeirah Beach Residence has also seen a 5% sales increase as a result of continuous opening of retail units, gyms nearing completion and strong interest in leasing from both Dubai and Abu Dhabi residents.

Asteco CEO Elaine Jones said: “Both Downtown Burj Dubai and Jumeirah Beach Residence are highly desirable, fully established communities, which are exactly what the market is seeking. A completed tower is no longer enough if it is not part of an integrated community with convenient access to schools, hospitals, transport, leisure and entertainment facilities. In terms of villa communities, The Springs and Arabian Ranches are faring well for the same reasons.”

Asteco reports that transactions and enquiries have picked up in line with mortgage availability. Demand is predominantly for smaller units such as studios and one bedroom apartments, or two and three bedroom villas or townhouses.

“It should be noted, however, that the increased interest in completed communities has resulted in landlords inflating their prices,” the report adds. “In addition, the option to lease these units is making price negotiations less flexible as the need to sell to generate income is lower.”

In the Dubai apartment and villa rental market, Asteco reports that “increased interest and rumours of economic recovery have caused some landlords to raise their rents. But many of these units remain empty for several months due to a significant amount of supply and increased competition.”

Overall, however, apartment and villa rental rates have seen minimal changes of in the third quarter of minus 3% and 0% respectively, according to the report. Currently, average rental rates for studio apartments are AED45,000 while one, two and three bedroom apartments command AED76,000, AED103,000 and AED139,000 respectively. 

Rates for studios and one bedroom apartments are beginning to stabilise, whereas there is still room for further drops for larger units, says the report. Villas and townhouses are available on average for AED117,500 for two bedrooms, AED180,500 for three, AED227,500 for four and AED278,500 for five bedroom units respectively. Asteco says the majority of inquiries are for Jumeirah and Umm Suqeim where tenants are looking for three-bedroom units between AED150,000 and AED180,000.

Communities alongside Sheikh Zayed Road are the preferred choice, whereas developments around Emirates Road suffer from the location disadvantage, the report adds. “However, this is likely to change next year with the opening of Al Maktoum International Airport, the biggest airport in the world.”

Asteco reports a noticeable increase in activity in the leasing market prompting tenants to get better value for their money, either by decreased rents, increased property size, better quality specifications, better amenities and accessibility. “Despite the Real Estate Regulatory Agency’s attempts to provide a rental index earlier this year, it is these influences which are truly driving current rental market activity,” the report added.

The Asteco Dubai Q3 2009 report also highlights the static office sales market, due to the economic downturn, along with further declines in office rental rates. For more details, please visit www.asteco.com


----------



## Chuckles4

*For Noir and Tehsin*

Seems to me from your previous posts that you guys are Canadians, so here's an article for you that I came across the other day about real estate prices in Canada:

http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20091015.whousing1015/BNStory/Business

The Canadian real estate market, the report says, is red hot throughout the country, prices are popping higher every day, and demand far outstrips supply. Most economists agree that Canada will be the first nation out of recession, and their banks.......oh, their banks, they are probably the strongest in the world right now and willing to lend. Mortgage interest rates are near the lowest they've ever been. Interesting country, Canada.


----------



## 234sale

Asteco Report 

It does seem though some choice properties have recovered more than others, as an example the address lake hotel went as low as 1400, but now is offered some what higher. At 2000 aed sqft you could argue its cheap relatively.

What will suffer is badly made property and poor locations, such as I hate to say it, , some of the badly made attached villas and cheaper towers. If they already look shabby and require extensive upgrades it’s going to start to get expensive. 

I think we all spent our cash, anyone with a surplus is sitting on that money for now.

You can not just flip a property like the old days ( which is good news in some respects as what was going on was crazy ) but has stopped all speculation.

Look at it this way, If I can buy an executive towers say for 1000 sqft + T.F of 2% + 1% agent merlarky,, The cost is already 1030 AED sqft. But say Going to sell it 1 year later for 1200 sqft will probably cost me at least 5%... Factoring in earnly repayments and Fees... I can make possibly 15%, but this now way guaranteed. I think I would rather play it safe as this is what we are all doing at the moment.


----------



## 234sale

FWIW said:


> ^^UK Bank Shares - Don't make me laugh (again)!


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...oubles-as-traders-predict-share-collapse.html

Oh dear, not again...:lol:


----------



## 234sale

Executive Towers

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-for-sale/apartment/2009/10/18/executive-tower-b-17/

Bedrooms: 1
Size: 1184.00 SqFt
Total closing fee: 892500
Price/SqFt: AED 753.8

Ouch..


----------



## Imre

^^^^

*Santa Claus Wanted*

Compensation: To be discussed
Listed by: Employer
Work experience: Unspecified
Education level: Unspecified
Commitment: Part TimeLocation
in Al Quoz
0.0 km from Time Square Mall

Description:
*Santa Claus look-alike (Male only) to work 3 hours/day (7pm to 10pm) starting 08 December until 25 December 2009. Please send photo and expected rate per hour.*

:lol::lol::lol:

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/job/media/2009/9/21/santa-claus-wanted/


----------



## 234sale

does the job come with a visa.... 

Or can santa work on a tourist visa...... Ho ho ho....


----------



## noir-dresses

you can do that with an ordinary 30 day visa for a visit, and go home :nuts:


----------



## dubaimarina2008

I think prices of Dubai Marina will go up soon. People will realise quicly that it will be the only one sea front community in Dubai which is ready in next 10 years with Palm Jumairah.

We all know that Dubai Waterfront and other palms are not ready for a very long time.


----------



## dubaiprojects

dubaimarina2008 said:


> I think prices of Dubai Marina will go up soon. People will realise quicly that it will be the only one sea front community in Dubai which is ready in next 10 years with Palm Jumairah.
> 
> We all know that Dubai Waterfront and other palms are not ready for a very long time.


You mean selling prices? If yes I seriously doubt it will not happen at least for another 2 years. If you meant rental value, I guess it almost stabilized now within the marina area between 60-80 for 1 bed. However rental value may go down during first quarter of 2010 and will rise again by end of next year...
cheers


----------



## dubaimarina2008

I mean selling prices. Also weak dollar will feed inflation in Dubai.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/10/Pages/WeakdollarmayfeedinflationinGCC.aspx


----------



## jagmp

one of my tenant has a leakage problem in the kitchen and the toilet.he insists i must sort it out.how do i do that.does anyone know any company or plumber who can do the job. and how much will it cost.:cheers:


----------



## dubaimarina2008

Ask help from building management. I think they have right person to fix the problem.


----------



## TMZ

jagmp said:


> one of my tenant has a leakage problem in the kitchen and the toilet.he insists i must sort it out.how do i do that.does anyone know any company or plumber who can do the job. and how much will it cost.:cheers:


find a fob indian who works for 5 dollars an hour and he will see to it its fixed, through in a lunch for him for free and he will kiss ur feet as well,

not very hard to find just ask managment if u want or a taxi driver, they multi task


----------



## iownyou

TMZ said:


> find a fob indian who works for 5 dollars an hour and he will see to it its fixed, through in a lunch for him for free and he will kiss ur feet as well,
> 
> not very hard to find just ask managment if u want or a taxi driver, they multi task


poor indians
they come to america thinking they are the sh.... but they are treated worst then the african slaves that were in america 300 years ago. i feel for them.


----------



## iownyou

jagmp said:


> one of my tenant has a leakage problem in the kitchen and the toilet.he insists i must sort it out.how do i do that.does anyone know any company or plumber who can do the job. and how much will it cost.:cheers:


ask the security guard or the frunt desk if any i was in internation city last year living there and they got to my issue farly fast within 24 hours


----------



## Imre

*email from the Dubai Municipality* 

*Dear Sir

Please be informed that the only residential area that is currently considered free zone by Dubai Municipality is Dubai Silicon Oasis and we are not responsible for false information published by newspapers.

Thank you*



I sent back for them this:

Jumeirah Lakes Towers also free zone, from the DMCC website:

http://www.jlt.ae/jlt_launch/about_jlt.aspx

The DMCC Authority (DMCCA) is the licensing authority for businesses operating in the Jumeirah Lakes Towers. Businesses, therefore, benefit from a free zone status, making JLT the first mixed-use Free Zone Freehold development in Dubai. 



also asked why should I pay the housing fee , many owners still dont pay in the same building .


----------



## Imre

answer:

Dear Sir,

Please be informed that The Government of Dubai is in the process of implementing the housing fees on all the residents of Dubai . Except that the implementation will go through two phases according to plan.Phase one has covered the tenants who have required a DEWA connection after the year2005.This is why you have been receiving your housing fees on your DEWA bill.Phase two will cover the rest of the existing tenants.The Government of Dubai will shortly launch a campaign through which it will enforce all the residents of Dubai to pay the housing fees.We understand you feel this system is unfair but it the only mechanism the government has been able to assemble.Even though it is a slow process it will ultimately prove effective and in a short period of time will succeed in enforcing the payment of the housing fees.Please understand that only because some tenants have been evading the payment of the fees,that does not mean that those who are legally paying should be exempted from the fees.We hope the answer we have delivered is a convincing one as we always seek to satisfy our valued customers.

Regarding JLT being a free zone area,that is what they claim and as far as Dubai Municipality is concerned it is not official unless there is an official document from the Government of Dubai that indicates thtat JLT is a free zone area


----------



## worried1

*Dubai LLC deliema*

Need some advice here:

I sent money to a Dubai builder from my LLC/business acount. I really should have sent it from my personal account since the amount is very small about 200K.

Be as it may, my accountant tells me that I should now send further money from my business account and buy the appartment under a business name in Dubai.

Question: Do I have to open an LLC in Dubai? If so, what are the costs and if they even justify opening a Dubal LLC for a 200K investment. I also see that 51% is to be owned by a UAE national and 49% by the foreigner. What if the UAE national takes away 51% and runs away.

Any thoughts and comments welcome:cheers:


----------



## dubaimarina2008

Dubai property prices rise 30% 

Property owners in Dubai have been increasing the asking price for their properties in the past two months and some areas have witnessed appreciation of 20 to 30 per cent in the past few weeks.

Heightened end-user interest has seen prices in some areas of Dubai at their highest since they bottomed out earlier this year. Prices in the Burj Dubai area, Dubai Marina and The Greens have been edging up on a weekly basis.

"The number of enquiries has certainly gone up, with a lot more people viewing ready properties now," the managing director of a Dubai-based real estate agency told Emirates Business.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0202009_3e1b12bf504c44a2b74fd5f50fb7f41d.aspx

This was my point yesterday:

"I think prices of Dubai Marina will go up soon. People will realise quicly that it will be the only one sea front community in Dubai which is ready in next 10 years with Palm Jumairah.

We all know that Dubai Waterfront and other palms are not ready for a very long time."


----------



## shagdash

dubaimarina2008 said:


> Dubai property prices rise 30%
> 
> Property owners in Dubai have been increasing the asking price for their properties in the past two months and some areas have witnessed appreciation of 20 to 30 per cent in the past few weeks.
> 
> Heightened end-user interest has seen prices in some areas of Dubai at their highest since they bottomed out earlier this year. Prices in the Burj Dubai area, Dubai Marina and The Greens have been edging up on a weekly basis.
> 
> "The number of enquiries has certainly gone up, with a lot more people viewing ready properties now," the managing director of a Dubai-based real estate agency told Emirates Business.
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0202009_3e1b12bf504c44a2b74fd5f50fb7f41d.aspx
> 
> This was my point yesterday:
> 
> "I think prices of Dubai Marina will go up soon. People will realise quicly that it will be the only one sea front community in Dubai which is ready in next 10 years with Palm Jumairah.
> 
> We all know that Dubai Waterfront and other palms are not ready for a very long time."





TMZ said:


> find a fob indian who works for 5 dollars an hour and he will see to it its fixed, through in a lunch for him for free and he will kiss ur feet as well,
> 
> not very hard to find just ask managment if u want or a taxi driver, they multi task


so property prices have risen by 30% has it? yes all the landlords who have held onto overinflated inventories maybe releasing that inventory into the market with a misplaced sense of overconfidence, but i ask where are the buyers willing to pay these inflated prices going to come from?
the 42.3% indian population who make $5 an hour and will kiss feet at the thought of a free lunch?
the 13.3% Pakistani, 7.5% Bangladeshi?
the 17% Emirati who already own homes or get it for next to nothing?
or will it be the 0.9% European and 0.3% American suckers who will buy n then hold onto their properties in the vain hope of finding a secondary market to offload their properties to.
it would be interesting to hear from any genuine investor who made such profits selling their properties in today's market.


----------



## UK_TO_DUBAI

iownyou said:


> i used to live there last year wile i was in dubai i was living there because i owned a property there so why should i go and pay for a hotel i am in california buddy if you red my post i said i would be comming to dubai in one or 2 months and last but not least people dont become rich by waisting money but by saving and investing money:bash:


First read this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_American


Indians along with other Asians, have one of the highest educational qualifications of all ethnic groups in the US. Almost 67% of all Indians have a bachelor’s or high degree (compared to 28% nationally and 44% average for all Asian American groups). Almost 40% of all Indians in the United States have a master’s, doctorate or other professional degree, which is five times the national average. Source: The Indian American Centre for Political Awareness

According to the 2000 U.S. Census, Indian American men had "the highest year-round, full-time median earnings ($51,094)",


----------



## Imre

dubaimarina2008 said:


> Dubai property prices rise 30%
> 
> Property owners in Dubai have been increasing the asking price for their properties in the past two months and some areas have witnessed appreciation of 20 to 30 per cent in the past few weeks.


no idea what they are talking about, I can not see any differences in the last few months , same adverts, same asking prices.


----------



## Wannaberich

House price jump biggest in six years after 2.8 per cent rise last month

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-years-2-8-cent-rise-month.html#ixzz0USck4djZ


London house prices surge past 2007 record high

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/oct/19/london-house-prices-rise-above-2007-high


----------



## 234sale

Sorry but the UK has yet to face it demons.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8315907.stm

The government expects borrowing to hit £175bn this year. Its overall debt now stands at £824.8bn, or 59% of GDP.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/











> The Nationalisation of Bradford & Bingley and Government purchase of shares in major banks like HBOS will cause even more borrowing. It is estimated National debt will could rise close to 100% of GDP by 2012


This is the debt they admit to,, I fear the true figure is far worse.

The real issues are not being tackled, just more debt created to patch the cracks.


----------



## cayman1

I'm sure best thing is to wait better time 2010 2011, sure offices and appartment are very undervalue i live in european union and in every big city the worst appartment is more expensive than the best in Dubai ,1000aed sqft is 2000 euro square meter and the worst appartment that a people can immagine is more expensive ! and there is a lot of taxes and notary 10 % of price, in Dubai there is not notary agency fee is 1,2 % in europe is 4% or more Dubai have rent higher than europe whith prices cheper soon peoples will return to invest in Dubai


----------



## True Blue

Just returned from another short visit to Dubai and suddenly witness the first population turnaround based on bums on seats on the plane.

Previous 3 flights since March had half empty inbound flights and full outbound flights.

This time the plane had 3 spare seats inbound and 90 spare seats outbound.

Could this be the first signs of population returning to Dubai?


----------



## iownyou

Deyaar sees 74% decline in Q3 profit 


Visitors at Deyaar stand during last Cityscape. The developer handed more than seven projects to investors in Q3. (EB FILE) 





By 

Reuters on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 

Dubai developer Deyaar has reported a 74 per cent drop in its third-quarter profit. 

Deyaar said it had a net profit of Dh81.6 million in the period ended Sepember 30. The emirate's second-largest developer by market value said its revenue stood at Dh450m. Total assets stood at Dh11bn. 


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/10/Pages/19102009/10202009_b2d39cdd71754d79b82af95ef54bd802.aspx


----------



## iownyou

Dubai likely to house AAF headquarters 


Dubai is considered as the most advanced city among Arab nations with respect to real estate regulations. (SALEM KHAMIS) 





By 

Anjana Kumar on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 

The Arab League's real estate body, Arab Appraisal Foundation (AAF), will be a self-financed entity, with a high probability for the headquarters to be in Dubai, said a top Arado official.

"I expect the real estate foundation to be self-financed. The money and the budget will come from different venues such as the fees and the donation of the different members," said Refat Abdelhalim Alfaouri, Director-General, Arab Administrative Development Organisation (Arado) League of Arab States Cairo, Egypt

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0212009_80607b6637484e9f8ccefa4c956889b8.aspx


----------



## ryeman

*Dubai populatoin*

I dont believe the Dubai population ever went down. I base this on two observations:

A couple of years ago, when everyone believes the population was at a high point, the three north/south arteries Sheik Zayed, Al Khail, and Emirates highway had a total of 10 lanes each way. Now they have 17 lanes each way, and the traffic is heavy on each one.

Secondly, over the last two years, very few villas/appartments have been demolished and a huge number of new buildings have been constructed. Even if those new buildings have low occupancy rates, it points to a growing population.

People on this forum whine about lack of regulation, good governance, and transparency, but draw a 2000 km radius circle around Dubai, and nothing compares to Dubai, nothing comes even close to the positive business climate here. Everyone living in the smallest craphole in Iran or India dreams about living here. They are the ones moving here, investing here, with little fanfare, setting up their family business. 

However, I dont think it is sustainable, how can the gov't continue to invest in and maintain infrastructure with the small oil income and selling state land. They are hoping for tourist dollars, but how much of that filters down to the govt?


----------



## shagdash

ryeman said:


> but draw a 2000 km radius circle around Dubai, and nothing compares to Dubai, nothing comes even close to the positive business climate here. Everyone living in the smallest craphole in Iran or India dreams about living here. They are the ones moving here, investing here, with little fanfare, setting up their family business.


if dreams came true pigs would fly

fact - there is no visa for all those indians and iranis dreaming about living here
fact - business is suffering. just look at quarterly results across industry groups. its is not only deyaar that is posting a loss.
fact - most small indian or irani businessmen do not keep their money here if they can help it - ie no investments. look at the foreign exchange remittance numbers. india is the largest beneficiary of foreign exchange remittance from the uae. 
fact - there is a reason why deira/burdubai is known as the indian/irani quarters. its cheap compared to new dubai. everything that these communities need is available a short walk away. and entire communities live there - sort of like a ghetto n these communities have a ghetto-ish mentality.

opinion - it is only the europeans/americans who invest in property here, as they find it cheap compared to their home countries. prize locations in india and iran will be far cheaper than some of the worst in dubai. and there is far stronger secondary market demand in those countries - after all no one is kicking the indians or iranis away from their own countries if they retire or quit or dont have a job now are they?


----------



## iownyou

ryeman said:


> I dont believe the Dubai population ever went down. I base this on two observations:
> 
> A couple of years ago, when everyone believes the population was at a high point, the three north/south arteries Sheik Zayed, Al Khail, and Emirates highway had a total of 10 lanes each way. Now they have 17 lanes each way, and the traffic is heavy on each one.
> 
> Secondly, over the last two years, very few villas/appartments have been demolished and a huge number of new buildings have been constructed. Even if those new buildings have low occupancy rates, it points to a growing population.
> 
> People on this forum whine about lack of regulation, good governance, and transparency, but draw a 2000 km radius circle around Dubai, and nothing compares to Dubai, nothing comes even close to the positive business climate here. Everyone living in the smallest craphole in Iran or India dreams about living here. They are the ones moving here, investing here, with little fanfare, setting up their family business.
> 
> However, I dont think it is sustainable, how can the gov't continue to invest in and maintain infrastructure with the small oil income and selling state land. They are hoping for tourist dollars, but how much of that filters down to the govt?


GOOD POINT


----------



## gerald.d

shagdash said:


> if dreams came true pigs would fly


Only if you dreamt of flying pigs, surely? 


> opinion - it is only the europeans/americans who invest in property here


I think that's very far from the truth indeed.


----------



## iownyou

gerald.d said:


> Only if you dreamt of flying pigs, surely?
> 
> I think that's very far from the truth indeed.


then whos buying?
i know of tons of my friend of bought in dubai and we all live in california


----------



## sidxb

shagdash said:


> if dreams came true pigs would fly


You took the mail too personally ... chill man ... Indians rule the world , curry is favorite food in world and I saw a queue of ppl waiting to get indian visas ... have a good sleep now :banana:

BTW he asked to draw a circle of 2000 km and I believe just named two countries with not so bad intention  Although if ryeman will increase circle to 3000 km , it may include china , CIS , phillipine as well and will be more fair .


----------



## noir-dresses

Indian's are some of the biggest property investor's in Dubai, in very good locations's aswell, definately bigger than the American's


----------



## shagdash

noir-dresses said:


> Indian's are some of the biggest property investor's in Dubai, in very good locations's aswell, definately bigger than the American's


ur right...just did some research and it seems indians alongwith the brits are the largest investors in dubai property. then there are the russians and then the iranis.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=r1Ws2ldOl0fxALk9iGhDajw&gid=2

however, it seems the cheaper locations are more popular - ic came out tops..then discovery gardens n then jlt.


----------



## noir-dresses

Check out the Emirates Hill's location


----------



## moscowboy

Dubai is a beautiful city. Infrastructure is coming along. But, this cannot continue as the state has no more oil revenue. Dubai has no major industries and no major agriculture lands. Oil alone cannot sustain the prosperity for long. I hope Dubai will soon build nuclear power plants and more railways and salt water based agriculture. Tourism can sustain a city. But, they must build the amusement parks for tourism. So far I do not see any amusement parks in Dubai.


----------



## iownyou

moscowboy said:


> Dubai is a beautiful city. Infrastructure is coming along. But, this cannot continue as the state has no more oil revenue. Dubai has no major industries and no major agriculture lands. Oil alone cannot sustain the prosperity for long. I hope Dubai will soon build nuclear power plants and more railways and salt water based agriculture. Tourism can sustain a city. But, they must build the amusement parks for tourism. So far I do not see any amusement parks in Dubai.


:nuts: we are all waiting for the dubai land theme parks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i know it will be built and one of these days we will see them going up


----------



## iownyou

Owners of high-end properties force up prices by 'gazumping' 


Owners of high-quality properties in Dubai are pushing up the sale price after they agree a figure with a buyer. The practice is widely known as 'gazumping'. (REUTERS) 





By 

Parag Deulgaonkar on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 

Owners of high-quality properties in Dubai are pushing up the sale price after they agree a figure with a buyer. The practice is widely known as 'gazumping'.

Prices have been forced up by as much as 15 per cent, according to real state agents.

Gazumping involves a seller pulling out of an agreed sale after accepting a second, higher offer – or asking for more. This often results in the original buyer losing money spent on pre-approved mortgages. The term was first coined in the UK in the late 1980s and early 1990s when property prices were buoyant.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0212009_14158e37196c425e827912600d5d123e.aspx


----------



## worried1

*Residence Visa*

Sometime ago, someone had posted about a procedure to get a residence visa.

I beleive it meant setting up a Dubai LLC and then the owner would get a residence visa.

Is this correct? And who in Dubai will set up such a LLC

Any comments appreciated:cheers:


----------



## gerald.d

iownyou said:


> then whos buying?
> i know of tons of my friend of bought in dubai and we all live in california


Lots of Indians, Pakistanis, other GCC citizens, Iranians, other ME countries, etc etc.

Apocryphal - the last property I rented was owned by an Indian, the current one, a Palestinian.


----------



## iownyou

gerald.d said:


> Lots of Indians, Pakistanis, other GCC citizens, Iranians, other ME countries, etc etc.
> 
> Apocryphal - the last property I rented was owned by an Indian, the current one, a Palestinian.


yes most of the indians and pakistanis i know are weathy people
are we dont talking about indians? i rather talk about dubai then indians


----------



## dirtyharry1

moscowboy said:


> Dubai is a beautiful city. Infrastructure is coming along. But, this cannot continue as the state has no more oil revenue. Dubai has no major industries and no major agriculture lands. Oil alone cannot sustain the prosperity for long. I hope Dubai will soon build nuclear power plants and more railways and salt water based agriculture. Tourism can sustain a city. But, they must build the amusement parks for tourism. So far I do not see any amusement parks in Dubai.


Then it will be time to leave... imagine them operating a nuclear power plant:bash:


----------



## PropertyFool

worried1 said:


> Sometime ago, someone had posted about a procedure to get a residence visa.
> 
> I beleive it meant setting up a Dubai LLC and then the owner would get a residence visa.
> 
> Is this correct? And who in Dubai will set up such a LLC
> 
> Any comments appreciated:cheers:



Hi

My company provides that service if you are interested. PM me and I will send you the details.

PropertyFool


----------



## Naz UK

My company does the same too. Please contact me.

DumbArseholes (Dubai) LLC.


----------



## Imre

finally the Saudi Prince found me on the internet , got by email today : 

From: "Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal" <[email protected]>

Assalamalekum,
I am HRH. prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, chairman and founder of the
KINGDOM HOLDING COMPANY KHC SAUDI ARABIA.
I want to investigate the possibility and preferential
Conditions/gains of investing some of my available funds
into your company/projects as a foreign company.
I will be interested to invest and partner in a business in line
with my company's mission statement for expansion in
virtually all profitable business with assurance that the
security of my funds will be there with ROI of at
least 10% per annum.
Depending on your business plan, proposals and professionalism I can
invest as much as any required funds for a start.
May Allah bless you.
HRh. Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal
Founder/ Chairman of KHC
Kingdom Holding Company
www.kingdom.net
[email protected]


----------



## Philippa C

shagdash said:


> ur right...just did some research and it seems indians alongwith the brits are the largest investors in dubai property. then there are the russians and then the iranis.
> 
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=r1Ws2ldOl0fxALk9iGhDajw&gid=2
> 
> however, it seems the cheaper locations are more popular - ic came out tops..then discovery gardens n then jlt.


I have 3 good Indian friends living in Emirates Hills: one has a house with a bua of 18 000sf!!!!! cheap locations - I dont think so.


----------



## Philippa C

moscowboy said:


> Dubai is a beautiful city. Infrastructure is coming along. But, this cannot continue as the state has no more oil revenue. Dubai has no major industries and no major agriculture lands. Oil alone cannot sustain the prosperity for long. I hope Dubai will soon build nuclear power plants and more railways and salt water based agriculture. Tourism can sustain a city. But, they must build the amusement parks for tourism. So far I do not see any amusement parks in Dubai.


Dubai never had much oil and it's traditionally its been a business hub and made money from trade/re-export.


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> finally the Saudi Prince found me on the internet , got by email today :
> 
> From: "Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal" <[email protected]>
> 
> Assalamalekum,
> I am HRH. prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, chairman and founder of the
> KINGDOM HOLDING COMPANY KHC SAUDI ARABIA.
> I want to investigate the possibility and preferential
> Conditions/gains of investing some of my available funds
> into your company/projects as a foreign company.
> I will be interested to invest and partner in a business in line
> with my company's mission statement for expansion in
> virtually all profitable business with assurance that the
> security of my funds will be there with ROI of at
> least 10% per annum.
> Depending on your business plan, proposals and professionalism I can
> invest as much as any required funds for a start.
> May Allah bless you.
> HRh. Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal
> Founder/ Chairman of KHC
> Kingdom Holding Company
> www.kingdom.net
> [email protected]


Get back to him about our internet poker player idea.

Business plan; We use other peoples money to gamble on the internet in virtual casinos based outside the GCC. We can not lose as it is other peoples money we are gabling. If we make a profit then we cut him in for his 10.1%

What colour of Lambo do you want, i'll get them ordered you sell the ideakay:


----------



## iownyou

Imre said:


> finally the Saudi Prince found me on the internet , got by email today :
> 
> From: "Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal" <[email protected]>
> 
> Assalamalekum,
> I am HRH. prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, chairman and founder of the
> KINGDOM HOLDING COMPANY KHC SAUDI ARABIA.
> I want to investigate the possibility and preferential
> Conditions/gains of investing some of my available funds
> into your company/projects as a foreign company.
> I will be interested to invest and partner in a business in line
> with my company's mission statement for expansion in
> virtually all profitable business with assurance that the
> security of my funds will be there with ROI of at
> least 10% per annum.
> Depending on your business plan, proposals and professionalism I can
> invest as much as any required funds for a start.
> May Allah bless you.
> HRh. Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal
> Founder/ Chairman of KHC
> Kingdom Holding Company
> www.kingdom.net
> [email protected]


:lol:


----------



## iownyou

No more than 80% financing if realty market is to be protected
Lenders must check repayment abilities, says cairo university official

By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter Published: 00:00 October 22, 2009 
Dubai's skyline continues to rise. In the heady days of the construction boom, in some cases the city's lenders allowed more than 90 per cent financing for real estate. Image Credit: Hadrian Hernandez/Gulf News Dubai: Banks and lenders should not finance more than 80 per cent of a property in order to safeguard the market, said a senior official from Cairo University.

Adel Yehia Akl, professor of the faculty of engineering at Cairo University, said that transactions have slowed due to the reduction in financing available and those people who do have money aren't buying as they are watching the market.

Across the Arab world, there has been a decrease of 60 to 80 per cent in the luxury market, including villas. Prices in the medium range have decreased regionally by 10 to 30 per cent, said Akl.
http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...-if-realty-market-is-to-be-protected-1.517701


----------



## shagdash

*ING Real Estate will not invest in the Dubai Property Market*

ING Groep NV’s $150 billion real estate fund has no interest in the Middle East because of overdevelopment, the head of the Dutch bank’s Asian property unit said. 

“We are not looking to invest in the Middle East,” Richard Price, chief of Asian real estate for the Netherlands’ biggest financial services company. “There is an awful lot of speculative development that remains unsold or unused and I don’t personally understand where the demand is going to come from.” 

The Middle East has the world’s worst-performing real estate market, with property prices in Dubai down about 50 percent from their peak and heading lower, Deutsche Bank AG said in June. Price spoke at the Cityscape conference in Dubai earlier this month. He spoke by telephone from Hong Kong. 

“We don’t see demand for investment into the Middle East from our institutional clients,” said Price. “Our Middle East clients are obviously invested there, but they typically do it themselves or through different entities.” 


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a_LKlXzTqjAg


There is no demand coming from institutional investors looking to pick up mass distressed assets.
There is no demand from the residents of dubai themselves (all waiting in the sidelines, playing the wait and watch game)
HRH. Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal seems to want a 10% ROI, and in today's scenario that is not gonna be possible in Dubai Real Estate - so no demand coming from him.
Where is this much needed demand going to come from?


----------



## shagdash

The new face of Dubai will be empty offices and apartments with no one in them, says shock report

http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/population-decline-impacts-dubai-200910203600.html

Very scary! We will all have to go back home!


----------



## shagdash

Official Cityscape figures confirm lack of confidence in Dubai real estate market

http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/attendance-worse-than-expected-200910213601.html

Only 38000 visitors to Cityscape this year, down 50%, confirmed officially


----------



## iownyou

shagdash said:


> The new face of Dubai will be empty offices and apartments with no one in them, says shock report
> 
> http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/population-decline-impacts-dubai-200910203600.html
> 
> Very scary! We will all have to go back home!


:cheers: 
you must not be a long term investor. this is teporary how about 2012-2013-2014-2020-2030? i think if you can get your money back within 10 years at 10% return your ok if more then that then is not ok so if people bought in 2005 like me i think by 2015 i should be able to eather have gotten my money back from rent or the price of the property double other wise it was a bad investment


----------



## shagdash

^^^^^^^^^^
well rents are falling and will resist any upward pressure. prices have also fallen by 50% already and most people ie analysts, buyers, businesses, property funds (except for owners themselves) think that they have further to go.
if you bought in 2005 u still might be okay. but to buy at today's prices which are still inflated while rents are just gonna fall further is cetainly no good investment sense.


----------



## HappyLarry

moscowboy said:


> My sister just returned from Dubai.
> she was shocked to find out that there was nothing interesting or touristy in Dubai.
> 
> Shopping mall and metro are not touristy.
> Tall buildings are all over the world.
> Beaches and hotels were empty.
> Even movie theaters were empty.
> 
> She said: India has Taj Mahal, Egypt has Pyramid, Russia has Kremlin, America has Grand Canyon, France has Eiffel tower. What has Dubai got?
> 
> I still have no answer to that question. But I think Dubai has Burj Dubai.


I don't really know how to put it gently without offending your intelligence.

Until, 20 odd years ago China was a communist country and like wise Russia. Now did anyone believe one or both could embark on the road to democracy. Whilst both of these countries and others that you have mentioned, all have rich history going back centuries if not a few millenia.
Then, may I ask, is it a fair comparison with a tiny nation which has a vision for its people/region that only began less than 10 years ago?

:cheers:


----------



## shagdash

Russel said:


> You are correct. There is no cultivation of the home grown talent in Dubai. Plus the masses are suppressed. The Dubai rulers are in a bind. If they have the love parades, freedom of expression, viable press, etc it will not be dictatorial. Can Dubai afford to be democratic in that neighborhood? It does not have the armed forces to defend itself.


china is a dictatorial regime too.the masses are suppressed, there is no freedom of media, speech etc. the press publishes what the communist party want them to...publicly aired channels contain only approved content.
the protesters go to hk for peaceful demonstrations (eg. being the falun gong)...
yet they are the fastest growing nation in the world, already no. 2 by gdp.
of course it makes no sense to compare china to the uae - natural resources, human resource, land mass, manufacturing strength, i mean the list is endless.
yet, one really cant blame all the troubles facing the uae on the leadership alone - yes they can do a lot better in governing the land and its subjects or should is say "residents" - for starters as rightly suggested by you capturing more "residents" by promising them naturalisation and long term rights and once they have garnered this base of subjects then to introduce some form of light taxation - will go a long way in bolstering their empty coffers.
after all they only had a desert to start out with....n then they got lucky and struck black gold....n now they've used it all up...they are still a young nation born only in 1971 and that too as a matter of economic urgency after they discovered oil and maybe will gain in wisdom and maturity too as they age.
but i ain't a (self-proclaimed or not) political analyst...i am a financial one.
n this is a property thread...so if i had to invest, i would find places where the rich chinese aspire to be n invest there (n there are going to be more rich chinese in the world than there are "residents" in the uae)
i would look at hk property for starters (when it dips a bit). or some of the bigger cities in china like guangzhou, shenzen...maybe even cities where the chinese like to move to with their money - singapore, vancouver....
dubai being islamist is unlikely to attract the chinese...n now it seems no-one.


----------



## shagdash

HappyLarry said:


> I don't really know how to put it gently without offending your intelligence.
> 
> Until, 20 odd years ago China was a communist country and like wise Russia. Now did anyone believe one or both could embark on the road to democracy. Whilst both of these countries and others that you have mentioned, all have rich history going back centuries if not a few millenia.
> Then, may I ask, is it a fair comparison with a tiny nation which has a vision for its people/region that only began less than 10 years ago?
> 
> :cheers:


incidentally, technically china is still a communist state. and the uae begun in 1971/2 - thats 37 years ago.
i agree with what u say, but dont u think the fact that the uae and the middle east is islamist will in itself render it difficult for them to embrace anything close to democracy.
china is largely agnostic (has always been - with a smattering of buddhism and taoism thrown in) and whilst the russians may have originally been orthodox christian, i think their state and political organs are also largely unaffected by religion (dont really know this though - maybe someone else can elaborate)
just trying to draw a few parallels here between the presence or lack of religion and the path to a more just system of governance - more views appreciated as i am a novice in world political agenda...
but the very fact that democracy itself requires a more tolerant and secular approach to the people may preclude it for the staunchly islamic middle east and hence also the uae??


----------



## iownyou

shagdash said:


> china is a dictatorial regime too.the masses are suppressed, there is no freedom of media, speech etc. the press publishes what the communist party want them to...publicly aired channels contain only approved content.
> the protesters go to hk for peaceful demonstrations (eg. being the falun gong)...
> yet they are the fastest growing nation in the world, already no. 2 by gdp.
> of course it makes no sense to compare china to the uae - natural resources, human resource, land mass, manufacturing strength, i mean the list is endless.
> yet, one really cant blame all the troubles facing the uae on the leadership alone - yes they can do a lot better in governing the land and its subjects or should is say "residents" - for starters as rightly suggested by you capturing more "residents" by promising them naturalisation and long term rights and once they have garnered this base of subjects then to introduce some form of light taxation - will go a long way in bolstering their empty coffers.
> after all they only had a desert to start out with....n then they got lucky and struck black gold....n now they've used it all up...they are still a young nation born only in 1971 and that too as a matter of economic urgency after they discovered oil and maybe will gain in wisdom and maturity too as they age.
> but i ain't a self-proclaimed or not political analyst...i am a financial one.
> n this is a property thread...so if i had to invest, i would find places where the rich chinese aspire to be n invest there (n there are going to be more rich chinese in the world than there are "residents" naturalised or not in the uae)
> i would look at hk property for starters (when it dips a bit). or some of the bigger cities in china like guangzhou, shenzen...maybe even cities where the chinese like to move to with their money - singapore, vancouver....
> dubai being islamist is unlikely to attract the chinese...n now it seems no-one.



chinese people want to work hard arab people are lazy people and there is 1.5 billion chinese and there is 700,000 emerati my ex wife was chinese and her father was a drunken and worked hard at the same time


----------



## Naz UK

shagdash said:


> china is a dictatorial regime too.the masses are suppressed, there is no freedom of media, speech etc. the press publishes what the communist party want them to...publicly aired channels contain only approved content.
> the protesters go to hk for peaceful demonstrations (eg. being the falun gong)...
> yet they are the fastest growing nation in the world, already no. 2 by gdp.
> of course it makes no sense to compare china to the uae - natural resources, human resource, land mass, manufacturing strength, i mean the list is endless.
> yet, one really cant blame all the troubles facing the uae on the leadership alone - yes they can do a lot better in governing the land and its subjects or should is say "residents" - for starters as rightly suggested by you capturing more "residents" by promising them naturalisation and long term rights and once they have garnered this base of subjects then to introduce some form of light taxation - will go a long way in bolstering their empty coffers.
> after all they only had a desert to start out with....n then they got lucky and struck black gold....n now they've used it all up...they are still a young nation born only in 1971 and that too as a matter of economic urgency after they discovered oil and maybe will gain in wisdom and maturity too as they age.
> but i ain't a (self-proclaimed or not) political analyst...i am a financial one.
> n this is a property thread...so if i had to invest, i would find places where the rich chinese aspire to be n invest there (n there are going to be more rich chinese in the world than there are "residents" in the uae)
> i would look at hk property for starters (when it dips a bit). or some of the bigger cities in china like guangzhou, shenzen...maybe even cities where the chinese like to move to with their money - singapore, vancouver....
> dubai being islamist is unlikely to attract the chinese...n now it seems no-one.


What the hell are you drivelling on about, Dubai Islamist? Since when?


----------



## iownyou

Naz UK said:


> What the hell are you drivelling on about, Dubai Islamist? Since when?


islamist????????????? they have prostitues and alcohool everywere:lol:


----------



## HappyLarry

shagdash said:


> incidentally, technically china is still a communist state. and the uae begun in 1971/2 - thats 37 years ago.
> i agree with what u say, but dont u think the fact that the uae and the middle east is islamist will in itself render it difficult for them to embrace anything close to democracy.
> china is largely agnostic (has always been - with a smattering of buddhism and taoism thrown in) and whilst the russians may have originally been orthodox christian, i think their state and political organs are also largely unaffected by religion (dont really know this though - maybe someone else can elaborate)
> just trying to draw a few parallels here between the presence or lack of religion and the path to a more just system of governance - more views appreciated as i am a novice in world political agenda...
> but the very fact that democracy itself requires a more tolerant and secular approach to the people may preclude it for the staunchly islamic middle east and hence also the uae??


I see what you are getting at but obviously you have misread my post. The earlier post was comparing buildings and my reference was only to buildings. Further, my reference of 10 years viz Dubai was referring to its vision to 'Build and they will come'. 
Last time I looked, this was an investment related thread but hey, Religion is a good investment for some. So you are cool. Personally, I believe in morality, respect for fellow human being, live and let live etc.. 
Proclamation to superiority usually ends with hanging from a tall tree.

In passing, I can't help thinking that your post is mostly ffs. You seem well pissed off. I hope you are not a victim of similar to that scene from Midnight Express.


----------



## Russel

shagdash said:


> of course it makes no sense to compare china to the uae - natural resources, human resource, land mass, manufacturing strength, i mean the list is endless.


You are right! It is totally ludicrous to compare the hard-ward working Chinese with the Dubai natives who sometimes own 3 - 4 houses with 3-4 maids in each of them.

Why do the people always give an allowance to an Arab regime that is not capable to govern properly. Is not the typical patronizing attitude toward the 22 dictatorial Arab states quite racist? When the world treats the Arab states with kids gloves it does not do anyone a favor. From the world's perspective the Arab states are not capable of the democratic values and that is wrong.

Most Arabs who come to the USA promptly materialize their potential becoming professors and businessmen. If they can do it in the US they sure can achieve the same greatness back home.


----------



## moscowboy

Russel said:


> From the world's perspective the Arab states are not capable of the democratic values and that is wrong.
> .


Egypt, Yemen, Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran and Turkey are all Democratic. They are all Arabic, isn't it?

According to wikipedia, the oil producing region was carved into small kingdoms according to the Bristish policy of divide and rule. 
England, installed puppet dictators in these newly created countries.

Is this a correct version of history, or is it all just BS?


----------



## Chipmunk

Chipmunk said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Is there anyone out there in a position to tell me how I can rent out a flat in Dubai without an agency? If I find a tenant myself (I plan on listing it on dubizzle and gulfnews), what would be the next steps and what forms would I need to complete?
> 
> I ask because I've listed my property with an agency but they still haven't found a tenant after almost a month, so I wanted to have a go at it myself.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.



Anyone??


----------



## Imre

iownyou said:


> imre what do you think of all this?


last 2 pages just rubbish here


----------



## moscowboy

Imre said:


> last 2 pages just rubbish here


I have a question. Many Russians have bought apartments in Dubai. many are selling now.
Do you think this is the best time to buy unfinished apartments from these distressed sellers?
They are asking the full price they paid few years ago.
Do these unfinished properties have any value at this time? Or, are they just total loss?


----------



## Imre

"unfinished properties" have no value now, off plan market is totally dead.

Russians have same problems as the Iranians,Pakistanis, Indians etc most of them are selling because of the visa.


----------



## paul66

I think everyone is forgetting that Visa is only a problem if you do not intend to work in the UAE.

If you dont have much money - you need to work anyway, and you get your visa.

If you are rich and dont want to work anymore, open a dormant company in a freezone and you get your visa.

Not that much of a problem I dont think. And I still believe government will act to change some of these visa laws in future - perhaps back to 3 year visa etc.


----------



## Russel

moscowboy said:


> Egypt, Yemen, Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran and Turkey are all Democratic. They are all Arabic, isn't it?
> 
> According to wikipedia, the oil producing region was carved into small kingdoms according to the Bristish policy of divide and rule.
> England, installed puppet dictators in these newly created countries.
> 
> Is this a correct version of history, or is it all just BS?


Egypt is NOT democratic. It is an autocracy.
Lebanon is not democractic because it harbors a state within a state. The Lebanese Hezbollah has its own infrastructure within Lebanon: army, hospitals, social services, etc. 
Iran is NOT Arab.
Palestine does not exist in the soveregn form. There are Palestinian territories but they do not constutute a state. 
Turkey is not Arab either.
Both Yemen and Iraq are struggling to become democratic but have a long way to go.


----------



## Russel

moscowboy said:


> I have a question. Many Russians have bought apartments in Dubai. many are selling now.
> Do you think this is the best time to buy unfinished apartments from these distressed sellers?
> They are asking the full price they paid few years ago.
> Do these unfinished properties have any value at this time? Or, are they just total loss?


The prices were unreasonably high then and 2-3 years later they still make little sense. There is a good American saying: Don't try to catch a falling knife or не лови падающий нож.


----------



## noir-dresses

Enough politic's, back to discusion's about property investment's, and field's tied to that.


----------



## Hanna

*Test Case for RERA Dubai*

Saturday, October 24, 2009
Test Case for RERA Dubai - Investors file case with RERA over Dubai project delays 

source Arabian Business
A group of around 30 investors has filed an official complaint at the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) over ongoing delays and specification changes at the Vue de Lac and Vista del Lago developments in Dubai.

Investors on the Al Attar project at Jumeirah Lake Towers accused the developer of unreasonable delays and changes being made to apartments without the consent of owners, Construction Week Online reported.

“We have been promised the project since then end of 2007. It was then pushed to 2008, then the end of 2008, and now he’s saying 2011 – which will never happen, because up to date they’ve only finished the piling,” investor Makram Mohamed told the website.

Many asserted that apartment specifications have changed so drastically that they no longer wish to purchase property in the project and want a full refund.

Investors are unhappy at what was described in a letter from Al Attar as “some small changes”, where two-bedroom apartments have been changed to one-bedroom ones.

Al Attar had revised the prices of the apartments in line with the reduction in apartment size, but investors said that they had bought two-bedroom apartments specifically and a smaller alternative was not acceptable.

“Because of the change of designation and all of this delay, we don’t want this property any more. The majority of people investing were buying to live in this property. Ninety per cent of our group wanted to live in this. Now they’ve changed the designation, we don’t need it. I bought a two-bedroom; you can’t give me a one-bed plus study,” said investor Shailendra Sainani.

“The majority of us need our money refunded and the costs absorbed. [Al Attar] needs to resell the project from the beginning.”

In addition to changes in designation, many investors are also concerned that delays to the project will result in a huge interest bill arising from finance agreements that can only be concluded following apartment handover.

Some investors took out finance agreements in 2006 under the impression that the project would be handed over in 2008. They are now facing the prospect of paying five years’ worth of interest on finance agreements, should the project be delivered according to a new completion date of 2011.

Some investors also query Al Attar’s ability to deliver the project on time.

“Can we still believe Al Attar can deliver in 2011, if they couldn’t even start construction in the last three years?” said one investor.

The group has filed a case with Rera because they say that Al Attar Properties is refusing to communicate with them except through a lawyer.

No-one from Al Attar was able to comment on the case or development.

The case has now been filed with Rera, who said a decision on the steps it would take would be forthcoming in the next few days.


----------



## Hanna

*UAE collect DNA from all Residents*

UAE collect DNA from all Residents - DNA database set to start in a year 

source The National.

The UAE aims to start collecting genetic samples from residents within 12 months as part of its controversial DNA database project, the programme’s director said yesterday, making it the first country in the world to do so.Dr Ahmed al Marzooqi, the director of the National DNA Database, also said the order for millions of people to allow lab technicians to collect samples of their DNA by swabbing their cheeks would probably be given as a security directive and not require the passage of new legislation.
“The first step is to set up the infrastructure and hire the lab technicians,” he said in an interview with The National.
“This should take us approximately one year.”
Then, he said, the UAE would start collecting DNA samples from the general public, beginning with juveniles.
“The aim is to eventually have a profile of the entire population,” said Dr Marzooqi, who is also the chairman of the DNA Working Group, made up of various police forces across the Emirates.
“Our goal is to sample one million per year, which could take as long as 10 years if you factor in the population growth.”Some officials have suggested that the DNA programme may require new legislation, which would then need to be considered by the Federal National Council.
But Dr al Marzooqi said this might not be the case.
“We are not sure if this will go through the Federal National Council or not,” he said. “It could simply be decided as a security matter and not need the legislation of the FNC.”The legislative route seems increasingly remote given that a new government department, the National DNA Database, has already been formed within the Ministry of Interior and collection kits ordered to help the police gather genetic material.At present, only 5,000 DNA profiles are stored, all of convicted felons. The notion of collecting DNA samples from non-criminals has raised ethical concerns about privacy protection. 
In Britain, for example, such use of DNA was contested last year in the European Court of Human Rights, which ruled that Britain must purge non-criminal genetic material from its database.The UAE has not accepted the jurisdiction of any such body.
Even attempting such a database – in which DNA is gathered from the entire population, even those who have never gone through the legal system – is basically unheard of, said Sir Alec Jeffreys, the British genetics pioneer who invented the DNA profiling system. He expressed concern over the lack of legislation required for a national database.“It will be interesting to see how this develops,” he said.“How this works out will really set the scene for how other countries approach this problem. If it’s seen as a great success which the population and citizenry fully endorse, I think it will open the way for a lot of other countries going down this route.“If it turns into a disaster for whatever reason, that will be the end of the story. You are the interesting experiment at this point.” Dr al Marzooqi, who is also Interpol’s single Middle Eastern representative in its DNA Monitoring Expert Group, said he was aware of the project’s challenges.“We are certain the pros will outweigh the cons,” he said. “The issue of privacy is just as important for us as it is important for the public. We will implement strict usage rules and will take secondary tests in court cases to verify the identity matches.” Other nations could use information from the UAE’s data bank, but not access the material, he said. Treaties and other international agreements would dictate the specifics.
“If there is co-operation with the country seeking the DNA profile, we share this information through Interpol – only the DNA profile, and obviously not the sample,” he said. Because each country may have its own database of DNA profiles, Dr al Marzooqi said, databases would not be merged with those of any other country. “Not every country who asks will be given this information,” he said.The database, he added, would be “instrumental in helping with unsolved crimes, identifying unknown bodies and will also be a great help in major disasters, either man-made or natural”.


----------



## AltinD

*Russel*: *GTFO of the UAE forum *and come back no more ... or I'll make sure you'd not be back in any of the SSC sections at all.


----------



## mackie1964

AltinD said:


> So despite the scary tough guy image, now we know who really wears the trousers in Mackieland.


I know my place :lol::cheers:

I was in Amsterdam (Leiden) for the last 3 days and I will do anything to get a pass out for the United/Liverpool match tomorrow....... Where is this ironing board :banana::cheers:


----------



## shagdash

moscowboy said:


> I have a question. Many Russians have bought apartments in Dubai. many are selling now.
> Do you think this is the best time to buy unfinished apartments from these distressed sellers?
> They are asking the full price they paid few years ago.
> Do these unfinished properties have any value at this time? Or, are they just total loss?


unfinished jumeirah park villas quoting for 2.3-2.4 mil. probably can be had for 2 mil (no idea when and if they will be completed). finished springs 3 bed villas quoting at 2 - 2.1 mil, i know can be negotiated down to 1.8 mil. why would you want to invest in unfinished property when there is finished property to be had for lesser??


----------



## shagdash

Naz UK said:


> What the hell are you drivelling on about, Dubai Islamist? Since when?


yes they allow prostitutes and alcohol, but they still are an islamic nation and i very much doubt the rulers will want to naturalise non-believers and grant them citizenship.


----------



## shagdash

HappyLarry said:


> I don't really know how to put it gently without offending your intelligence.
> 
> Until, 20 odd years ago China was a communist country and like wise Russia. Now did anyone believe one or both could embark on the road to democracy. Whilst both of these countries and others that you have mentioned, all have rich history going back centuries if not a few millenia.
> Then, may I ask, is it a fair comparison with a tiny nation which has a vision for its people/region that only began less than 10 years ago?
> 
> :cheers:





HappyLarry said:


> I see what you are getting at but obviously you have misread my post. The earlier post was comparing buildings and my reference was only to buildings. Further, my reference of 10 years viz Dubai was referring to its vision to 'Build and they will come'.
> Last time I looked, this was an investment related thread but hey, Religion is a good investment for some. So you are cool. Personally, I believe in morality, respect for fellow human being, live and let live etc..
> Proclamation to superiority usually ends with hanging from a tall tree.
> 
> In passing, I can't help thinking that your post is mostly ffs. You seem well pissed off. I hope you are not a victim of similar to that scene from Midnight Express.


u did mention china was communist and both china and russia have embarked on the road to democracy - sounds like politics to me. hence my comments on politics and religion.
i suppose ffs means "full of shit"?? so u don't think talking abt a country's political/religious leanings has anything to do with the visa quagmire that many dubai investors are stuck with?? 
n by "pissed off" do u mean drunk or angry? maybe i'm growing duller by the day, but cannot for the life of me understand unnecessary personal comments that aren't even clear. and midnight express? care to elaborate? or do u intentionally intend to be obtuse.


----------



## shagdash

Imre said:


> "unfinished properties" have no value now, off plan market is totally dead.
> 
> Russians have same problems as the Iranians,Pakistanis, Indians etc most of them are selling because of the visa.


there is a pakistani gentleman trying to sell a flat in my building. he has it out on the market since june and yet no takers for either rent or sale.


----------



## shagdash

paul66 said:


> I think everyone is forgetting that Visa is only a problem if you do not intend to work in the UAE.
> 
> If you dont have much money - you need to work anyway, and you get your visa.
> 
> If you are rich and dont want to work anymore, open a dormant company in a freezone and you get your visa.
> 
> Not that much of a problem I dont think. And I still believe government will act to change some of these visa laws in future - perhaps back to 3 year visa etc.


to work in the uae u need to have a job and companies are laying off people even now. so how will the average joe schmoe who doesn't own 45 floors and can afford the 50k to buy freezone company visa be able to live in his property when companies are frugal with their hiring?


----------



## shagdash

Imre said:


> this is not problem, different people different opinions , still better and more valuable to read this forum then any newspapers in Dubai or UAE


i so totally agree :cheers:


----------



## shagdash

iownyou said:


> :lol: there is alot of strange people on this thread


 better strange and interesting than ordinary and boring


----------



## moscowboy

wittyman said:


> It is true that Britain first and then The USA have been a big factor in carving the boundaries of the countries in the region. This process is going on even know looking at the de facto division of Iraq.
> 
> Apart form that I was surprised that you do not know that Iranians and Turkish are not Arabs. Any modestly educated Russain (maybe you are not Russian) would know this.


Very good history lesson. 
many people believe Muslim and Arab are interchangeable. 

Russia is considered an Orthodox Christian country, even though it is half Muslim.

Russians buy property in Dubai for profit and future appreciation. 
Also it is a good way to squirrel away money outside the purview of Russian authorities.
Russians usually do not want to live in Dubai. 
So, visa may not be an issue for them.


----------



## houshang

Originally posted by : Wittyman

Qoute:

[The Iranians are a multi ethnic nation and are made up of the narrow majority Farisis (Persians), a large minority of Turkic Azeris and smaller minorities of Turkic Turcomans, Arabic Khuzistanis etc. The Iranians are the heirs to the ancient Persian civilization, one of the oldest and greatest of antiquity. Ancient Persians ruled a big chunk of Eastern Mediterrrenean including todays Greece for centuries before ancient Greeks rose to form a great civilization of their own. Iranians do not deserve the theocractic and despotic regime ruling them now which I think is an impass in their long history. The regime will eventually either go away or change for the better under the grinding stones of history. The heirs of the great scientist, poet and philosopher Omar Khayyam will definetely wake up one day.]

Excellent piece of writing, cheers:cheers2:


----------



## iownyou

shagdash said:


> yes they allow prostitutes and alcohol, but they still are an islamic nation and i very much doubt the rulers will want to naturalise non-believers and grant them citizenship.


i been living in america for 10 years next june and i still dont have a citizenship is not easy to be a citizen and there is no benefit to be citizen in many countriesthe difference of residence and citizen is small for example the difference here in usa is only that a person can vote for the presidence and nothing else you can get all the help you want from the goverment(food stamps-financial aid-medical insurence"poor quolity") as a resident and if uae would make you citizen then they have to give you free housing and free school so is not good for them to do that


----------



## iownyou

shagdash said:


> to work in the uae u need to have a job and companies are laying off people even now. so how will the average joe schmoe who doesn't own 45 floors and can afford the 50k to buy freezone company visa be able to live in his property when companies are frugal with their hiring?


wel if you have the money to jest buy a property out right and if you can aford to live without working then i am sure you can come up with 50,000 dhs and if not sucks for you


----------



## iownyou

Tenants urged to ask for title deed and registration 


Tenants of building 219 at Discovery Gardens have been threatened with eviction (SUPPLIED) 





By 

Parag Deulgaonkar on Sunday, October 25, 2009 

Tenants should always ask the rental company through which they are going to lease the property to provide them the title deed and get the owner to register the contract with Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera), the agency's spokesperson told Emirates Business.

The advice was in response to the problem 38 families found themselves in after paying their rent in cash/single cheque to brokerage Corporate Business Solutions (CBS), which is in dispute with the owner of the building, Meraas Real Estate.

Meraas has filed a case against CBS and the tenants too plan to file a case against CBS to recover their money.

The tenants of building 219 at Discovery Gardens have been told they will be evicted within weeks if they do not pay the rent directly to the owner of the block.


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0252009_a9f2bdd1bfc74181a9ac36eb66cd9a53.aspx


----------



## iced

paul66 said:


> You can short shares in Emaar, Nakheel or any other listed developer! same thing!


You cant short these shares


----------



## moscowboy

iownyou said:


> i been living in america for 10 years next june and i still dont have a citizenship is not easy to be a citizen and there is no benefit to be citizen in many countriesthe difference of residence and citizen is small for example the difference here in usa is only that a person can vote for the presidence and nothing else you can get all the help you want from the goverment(food stamps-financial aid-medical insurence"poor quolity") as a resident and *if uae would make you citizen then they have to give you free housing and free school so is not good for them to do that*


very good point. 
Citizens get a lot of "free" things from Gov. 
That explains why they do not give citizenship to foreigners. 
I never thought of that.


----------



## cugeneva

*rent out via agency*



Chipmunk said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Is there anyone out there in a position to tell me how I can rent out a flat in Dubai without an agency? If I find a tenant myself (I plan on listing it on dubizzle and gulfnews), what would be the next steps and what forms would I need to complete?
> 
> I ask because I've listed my property with an agency but they still haven't found a tenant after almost a month, so I wanted to have a go at it myself.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


I rented out my apartment without an agent last year but was told recently by an agent that nowadays this is not possible anymore as the tenant will need the contract being stamped by an agency in order to get DEWA registration.

Is there anybody out there who can confirm this as my apartment becomes vacant soon and I also need to find out whether I can rent it out myself.

I also heard that a title deed would be required for renting out the apartment. Any comments on this?


----------



## DXBQuantum

yes this is true, DEWA always ask for company stamp.


----------



## DXBQuantum

im sure they are clamping down on this as well as everyone is not registering their properties and none of them have title deeds - to save on the registration fees.


----------



## noir-dresses

cugeneva said:


> I rented out my apartment without an agent last year but was told recently by an agent that nowadays this is not possible anymore as the tenant will need the contract being stamped by an agency in order to get DEWA registration.
> 
> Is there anybody out there who can confirm this as my apartment becomes vacant soon and I also need to find out whether I can rent it out myself.
> 
> I also heard that a title deed would be required for renting out the apartment. Any comments on this?


check your private message's


----------



## TerryPop

DXBQuantum said:


> yes this is true, DEWA always ask for company stamp.


Its true DEWA ask for the stamp- 

I am an owner of a few units and rented them all out by myself.

You take the signed tenancy contract to RERA and they will stamp it for you.

That then gets taken to DEWA for account set up.

DEWA do accept company stamps too- which means you don;t need to do the RERA thing but..

Its well worth having your contract stamped by RERA as it makes it enforceable.

(most agents don't bother doing this for you)


----------



## chefdude

Best thing that a landlord living outside the UAE can do is to get a reliable person to manage his property for him. It saves a lot of pain in the end and arranging a trip to come here and sort out problems is never cheap. You will pay a percentage of your rental price but it should be viewed as an insurance policy to cover what may go wrong!


----------



## iownyou

chefdude said:


> Best thing that a landlord living outside the UAE can do is to get a reliable person to manage his property for him. It saves a lot of pain in the end and arranging a trip to come here and sort out problems is never cheap. You will pay a percentage of your rental price but it should be viewed as an insurance policy to cover what may go wrong!


it seems to be difficult one thing i have learned in life is that if you want something done right do it your self but i have alot of commercial property here in america and i have one lady and her employees who collect the rent for me and she does everything i need some times i need to be present to make sure things go the way i want them to but as long as you hire somone or a company and pay them 5% of the gross rent this should be good enough


----------



## Morrismarina

glover said:


> P.S. a piece of advise, try not to frame things in a racial way, it really makes you look pretty bad!


Give me break Glover I've already said sorry. hno:




Morrismarina said:


> Perhaps my comment about Arabs was over the top and I apologise if I've upset any Arab people, it's not right to generalise I know


----------



## Morrismarina

Seems it's still OK for everybody to slag off the Yanks on this thread though. :lol:


----------



## glover

cheers for that!! 

but why are you selling at a big loss! why not wait! it is really the worst time now to capitulate, the market is going to strengthen for off-plans in the marina imo, sooner than you think!



Morrismarina said:


> Give me break Glover I've already said sorry. hno:


----------



## glover

....


----------



## True Blue

^^He's getting out of Select and moving his money to Cayan before prices go back out of reach


----------



## HappyLarry

Morrismarina said:


> Look cockhead, it's not my developer (who isn't a white man by the way) that's took away my visa, it's the Dubai Goverment. They're a bunch of lying, cheating crooks, encouraged me to invest in their currently by having a 3 years visa on offer then removing it. And you expect me not to be unhappy about it ? :weird:


By your own admission you went against your friends advise. So, you are not difficult to figure out. I can imagine, since you were in such a bullish mood at the time, you also signed on that dotted line and drooled over the BS, Select Properties was dishing out to you.
I can guarantee you that no government will promise an alien the right to entry without checking them out first.
So, read your contract 'cockhead' and quit blaming the world for your own mistakes.


----------



## HappyLarry

shagdash said:


> u did mention china was communist and both china and russia have embarked on the road to democracy - sounds like politics to me. hence my comments on politics and religion.
> i suppose ffs means "full of shit"?? so u don't think talking abt a country's political/religious leanings has anything to do with the visa quagmire that many dubai investors are stuck with??
> n by "pissed off" do u mean drunk or angry? maybe i'm growing duller by the day, but cannot for the life of me understand unnecessary personal comments that aren't even clear. and midnight express? care to elaborate? or do u intentionally intend to be obtuse.


Sorry, I should have expanded on my reference.
I was eluding to two nations (China/Soviet Union) with enormous history and idiologies that are now open markets. Dubai is merely a toddler and will of course suffer some knocks before it's able to walk.
I do understand that investors are locked into Dubai's future, me included. But, from time to time, the odd character can not handle the stresses of their circumstances and spill their bile onto this forum.
Take MM's example. How insulting was he to Arabs.
:cheers:


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*This report suggestas that Dubai will be emerging leaner and stronger*

Five months is a long time to be away from my home in Dubai ; my second home, that is ; and as we touched down at Dubai International, courtesy of Emirates airlines, (probably the best airline anywhere), I wondered if things had really got as bad as the scare-stories would have us believe.

For the world's media have certainly seized upon Dubai as the fallen idol of the Middle East , once they wrote, the byword for 21st century, futuristic architecture and unrivalled prosperity, the epitome of luxury and excellence' and now depicted as a ghost town of empty shops and restaurants, and huge deserted building-sites topped by motionless cranes, silent in the midday sun.


http://gulfnews.com/business/opinion/dubai-emerging-leaner-stronger-1.519122


----------



## Imre

*Dubai planning to unveil $6.5b bond*

The latest programme, to be finalised in the next few days at the end of its roadshow, comes as the cost of insuring Dubai's debt falls towards a recent one-year low.

http://gulfnews.com/business/economy/dubai-planning-to-unveil-6-5b-bond-1.519222


----------



## AltinD

wittyman said:


> Hi AltinD,
> 
> I am not that experienced in using Skyscrapercity. I understand that you think the new thread was not proper. If I know the reason I will be a better user. (I didnot open the the thread but did suggest that it was a good idea)
> 
> Thanks..


This is a forum for Skyscrapers, construction and Architecture so we try to keep the Real Estate part of it to a minimum. :cheers:


----------



## Chuckles4

AltinD said:


> UNDone!! epper:epper:


Well done, AltinD....Show them who is the boss around here!!


----------



## True Blue

*Lloyds TSB International Buy to let mortgages includes Dubai Villas.*

Lloyds TSB are offering buy to let mortgages in Dubai at 50% LTV and 3.5% above the Bank of England base rate if you sign on a sterling mortgage. This would become 4% at the current BOE rate of 0.5%. They will only consider 70% of rental income in calculating amount of offer. So you still need plenty of capital.

You can take the mortgage in dollars and it becomes 3.5% above the cost of funds rate(not sure what that means) Doing it in dollars means you won't get caught up in the currency exchange trap unless they delink the Dirham.

Could be valuable to people struggling to pay the last installment of a newly completed property or for someone who owns a couple of mortgage free Dubai properties looking to buy some more

Just noticed they don't lend on apartments yet just villas

here is the link; http://www.lloydstsb-offshore.com/international/mortgages/rates/


----------



## dubaiprojects

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091024/PERSONALFINANCE/710239886

Interestingly he bought the property in Cyprus, while he was partying in dubai.
Is cyprus such an attractive place for real estate?


----------



## Philippa C

HappyLarry said:


> By your own admission you went against your friends advise. So, you are not difficult to figure out. I can imagine, since you were in such a bullish mood at the time, you also signed on that dotted line and drooled over the BS, Select Properties was dishing out to you.
> I can guarantee you that no government will promise an alien the right to entry without checking them out first.
> So, read your contract 'cockhead' and quit blaming the world for your own mistakes.


That's very unfair. We bought an Emaar villa, not for the visa but because rents were going so high that the mortgage payment was less than the rent. Emaar very clearly said they would help buyers who were not working obtain a visa. They even printed out a fact sheet on the procedure to apply for the visa. Developers obviously had the go ahead from the Dubai government to get visas for property buyers but gov policy has since changed. To say it was anything other than misrepresentation or a change in policy is unfair to those who took official documents from gov developers at face value and in good faith.


----------



## Philippa C

Dubaiiscool:) said:


> Five months is a long time to be away from my home in Dubai ; my second home, that is ; and as we touched down at Dubai International, courtesy of Emirates airlines, (probably the best airline anywhere), I wondered if things had really got as bad as the scare-stories would have us believe.
> 
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/business/opinion/dubai-emerging-leaner-stronger-1.519122


It reads as a "thank you note" for a free holiday. Nothing of substance in it at all.


----------



## shagdash

Another doom n gloom article

Deyaar cuts 20% staff

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091026/BUSINESS/710269992


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## HappyLarry

Philippa C said:


> That's very unfair. We bought an Emaar villa, not for the visa but because rents were going so high that the mortgage payment was less than the rent. Emaar very clearly said they would help buyers who were not working obtain a visa. They even printed out a fact sheet on the procedure to apply for the visa. Developers obviously had the go ahead from the Dubai government to get visas for property buyers but gov policy has since changed. To say it was anything other than misrepresentation or a change in policy is unfair to those who took official documents from gov developers at face value and in good faith.


*Emaar very clearly said they would help buyers who were not working obtain a visa.*

My Damac contract says the same. No one has guaranteed me anything. It is just a clause in the contract. Sure, it pisses us off but at the end of the day, the Dubai government can not be held responsible and can not be expected to open doors to all and sundry.
Whatever the outcome, we will remain their guests and it is for them to decide if we stay or go. That is the norm elsewhere too.
:cheers:


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## dubaiprojects

HappyLarry said:


> *.*
> 
> Whatever the outcome, we will remain their guests and it is for them to decide if we stay or go. That is the norm elsewhere too.
> :cheers:


Never doubted on that one and thats why I feel ok and I believe most of us made some good money by investing here wisely. For those who did not calculate the overall risk and invested everything they earned probably are in deep shit. I have a few friends who invested in Ajman and couldnt even get a cancellation to get some money back from developers.


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## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai’s Long-Term Outlook ‘Fantastic’: Strategist*

DUBAI — The long-term outlook for Dubai looks “quite fantastic,” but the government should diminish its role in business and continue to encourage more private entrepreneurship to ensure sustained economic growth, a leading business strategist said  on Monday.

Gary Hamel, a renowned strategist, ranked as the ‘World’s most influential business thinker’ by the Wall Street Journal, said although Dubai would face some difficulties in the short-term, its medium term outlook looked quite satisfactory.

“With an excellent infrastructure in place, Dubai will continue to attract global talents, and I believe, the emirate’s long term outlook remains quite fantastic. But the government must cede some of its economic role to the private sector to encourage more business initiatives,” Hamel, told Khaleej Times on the sidelines of the Leaders in Dubai Business Forum at the Dubai International Convention and Exhibition Centre.

A big lesson the world has learnt from the current financial crisis is that incredible or abnormal growth in any economy cannot be sustainable, he said. “People have been collectively stupid in believing that the unprecedented scale of growth is sustainable. I call it collective myopia when businesses ignored the long-term growth aspect.”

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...business/2009/October/business_October605.xml


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## Dubai_Steve

*UAE Cost of Living Report 2009: Accommodation*

Kershaw Leonard has released its annual Cost of Living report, the sixth installment of the paper. After comparing the UAE market in mid-2008 to the California gold rush of the 1800s, the Dubai-based recruitment and HR consultancy has said that the market in 2009 now resembles 'survival of the fittest'. With housing costs having spiralled in 2008, the study looks at what the decline in prices has meant for the UAE's emirates.

'Out of all the cities of the UAE, it is within Dubai that some of the biggest changes have taken place,' the report says. 

'Yet, some of the most interesting observations of this year's report are the increasing differences between Dubai and Abu Dhabi, and what some see as an increasing divide between the two cities.'

The report notes that inflation, fuelled primarily by the ever-increasing property bubble, reached over 12% - according to official figures - at the market's peak in 2008, although the 2008 report suggested the actual figure to be nearer 20%. One effect of the turnaround in the market has been to lower these figures.

The turnaround has been most strongly felt in the real estate sector. With mushrooming rental rates across Dubai overheating the market and pushing people to consider buying their property, the steep decline in prices post Q3 2008 has had a comprehensive effect on the city.


Rental slides

Citing comparison tables of different unit types and locations from April 2008, September 2008, April's Rera index and September 2009, the report notes that: 'The rent on a studio apartment in Dubai Marina might now be 53% less than in September 2008, and a two-bedroom apartment in International City 48% less. In terms of villas, the rent on a three-bedroom in the Springs is around 44% less than one might have paid one year ago, and a five-bedroom on Jumeirah Palm, 22% less.'

Conversely Abu Dhabi had continued to witness increases: 'Rental prices are not only on the increase from last September, but in some cases are considerably higher - 36% for a studio flat on the Airport Road, or 20% for a one-bedroom apartment on Muroor Road, for example. This is not discounting the fact that, unlike Dubai, there is still significant undersupply in the capital.' 

The undersupply is highlighted by the inclusion of figures showing that, while 362,000 units will be needed in Abu Dhabi in 2010, only 340,000 will be available. Dubai, on the other hand, will see an oversupply of approximately 30,000 units in 2010. This oversupply has affected purchase prices accordingly, with the cost of a studio in Old Town falling by 36.8% compared to last September, and the price of a three-bedroom villa, both in the Springs and on the Palm dropping by approximately 50%.


Looking ahead

Looking ahead, the report finds that, although a reported $582bn worth of real estate and infrastructure projects have been put on hold or cancelled in Dubai, a further $700bn worth are ongoing throughout the UAE. 

Citing Proleads, the study finds that: '"Compared to most European countries, that's a lot of projects." In the longer-term half-finished projects will have to be completed - although many flagship projects, such as Dubai Waterfront which is currently on hold, may be considerably scaled down.'


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## moscowboy

..


----------



## noir-dresses

I hear Russian's smoke radio active cigarette's with tabaco grown in Chernobyl

:crazy2:


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## DXBQuantum

yeah and vodka that glows in the dark.


----------



## shagdash

The number of new property owners registered with the Dubai Land and Property Department reached 19,012 in the first half of this year, a statement said.

UK male buyers topped the list of new property owners with 17 per cent, followed by Emiratis at 17 per cent and Pakistanis by 15 per cent.

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/over-19-000-invested-in-property-in-dubai-1.519628


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## shagdash

Dubai Bonds May Yield Same as Companies One Level Above Junk 

By Laura Cochrane

Oct. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Dubai, in its first international bond sale in 18 months, is being treated by investors the same as Russian companies with the lowest investment-grade ratings. 

The sheikhdom’s planned dollar-denominated securities, which aren’t rated, will be sold to yield 350 basis points to 400 basis points over the benchmark midswap rate, said three investors approached for the sale. That equates to a premium of 50 basis points, or 0.50 percentage point, more than debt sold by Russian issuers such as OAO Sberbank, which is rated BBB, two levels above high-yield, high-risk debt, Commerzbank AG says. 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=aRasROLjvmIo

I say its a giant ponzi scheme. Borrow from A to pay B, borrow from C to pay A, there are only 26 letters in the alphabet - but I guess for Dubai that doesn't matter.


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## DXBQuantum

i dont know about you, but i prefer bloomberg to gulf news haha!!!


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## DXBQuantum

___


----------



## williteverbebuiltnow

shagdash said:


> Dubai Bonds May Yield Same as Companies One Level Above Junk
> 
> By Laura Cochrane
> 
> Oct. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Dubai, in its first international bond sale in 18 months, is being treated by investors the same as Russian companies with the lowest investment-grade ratings.
> 
> The sheikhdom’s planned dollar-denominated securities, which aren’t rated, will be sold to yield 350 basis points to 400 basis points over the benchmark midswap rate, said three investors approached for the sale. That equates to a premium of 50 basis points, or 0.50 percentage point, more than debt sold by Russian issuers such as OAO Sberbank, which is rated BBB, two levels above high-yield, high-risk debt, Commerzbank AG says.
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=aRasROLjvmIo
> 
> I say its a giant ponzi scheme. Borrow from A to pay B, borrow from C to pay A, there are only 26 letters in the alphabet - but I guess for Dubai that doesn't matter.


....the bottom line is it doesnt matter if you approve of it or not...the market does and that is all that matters. If they get this deal away and pay back the Nakheel sukuk and the Dubai CAA bond then they are home and dry as regards the $6.8bn that they need to repay this year. This will leave the wodges of cash that Abu Dhabi is shoving their way to kick start the raft of stalled projects that they have going on.

My guess is that at Libor +375 they will get the chance to upsize the deal. They are paying like a Russian Corporate debt and on a par with DP World 17s (which is a much longer maturity) to issue as a Sovereign...the international investment community will have their arms off.....


----------



## iownyou

great news guys

DLD plans group to offer free legal aid to investors 







By 

Staff Writer on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 

Dubai Land Department (DLD) said it is forming a legal care group consisting of prominent lawyers and consultants with the objective to provide free legal aid to investors. 

"This initiative has been taken in line with its directions to encourage work to serve the community to ensure justice to all," said Mohamed Sultan Thani, Assistant Director of Land Department.

The preliminary meeting was held to discuss the structure of the group and the services to be provided.

A number of lawyers and consultants expressed their willingness to contribute to the project.


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0272009_ea8670d1b8e542fc8485f4cda6910a52.aspx


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## iownyou

UAE tops Arab World in ranking for prosperity 


The Legatum index showed that the UAE scored high on security, safety and health. (EB FILE) 





By 

Waheed Abbas on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 

The UAE maintained its position as the most prosperous country in the Arab World and the only nation in the Middle East and North Africa region to be ranked in the top 50 for the second year running, according to a global survey of wealth and happiness released yesterday.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0272009_c08c8ac8f0d145cf97002fa7c9bf3934.aspx


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## paul66

*Dubai Metro Could Boost Property*

Video on CNBC
Airtime: Mon. Oct. 26 2009 | 09 08 00 ET
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1308152619&play=1

The property market in Dubai is seeing signs of stabilization and the recent opening of the Dubai Metro should boost the market, according to research from CB Richard Ellis. Nicholas Maclean from CB Richard Ellis spoke to CNBC about the outlook.


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## noir-dresses

Notice he mention's there's not enough high end office, and residential unit's


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## shagdash

paul66 said:


> Video on CNBC
> Airtime: Mon. Oct. 26 2009 | 09 08 00 ET
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1308152619&play=1
> 
> The property market in Dubai is seeing signs of stabilization and the recent opening of the Dubai Metro should boost the market, according to research from CB Richard Ellis. Nicholas Maclean from CB Richard Ellis spoke to CNBC about the outlook.


I would think the primary takeaway from this video is that property rates haven't reached bottom yet as more supply is yet to be completed and delivered and prices will probably have reached bottom in the middle of 2010.


----------



## shagdash

DXBQuantum said:


> i dont know about you, but i prefer bloomberg to gulf news haha!!!


How about Wall Street Journal??


Dubai officials are in London and Frankfurt this week on the final leg of a global tour to persuade investors the sheikdom is through the worst. On offer are $6.5 billion of conventional and Islamic bonds to fill government coffers just before Dubai and its corporate proxies face $5 billion of debt repayments.

In return, investors are likely to demand a high yield -- currently expected to be 6.32% on the five-year sukuk, compared with the 3.85% yield on neighboring Abu Dhabi's similar paper.

prospective buyers of Dubai debt will no doubt take comfort in the fact that its oil-rich neighbor has the resources to give more support if the need arises.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125665929607410635.html

My analysis is this:

If one had the stomach for risky securities, these sukuks would make for far better investments than Dubai property. Why?

6.3% yield on the bond. Property yields in Dubai quite likely to go down after accounting for maintenance and falling rents and rising vacancy rates.

lesser risk - backing dubai govt debt involves less systematic risk and more diversification than limiting yourself to a property portfolio.

creditworthiness - well we can always depend on auh to bail its neighbor out!

so with better risk-return tradeoffs, its a slam dunk case in favor of the bond vs property.:banana::banana:


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## iownyou

noir-dresses said:


> Notice he mention's there's not enough high end office, and residential unit's


what is your point on this i dont understand you?


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## noir-dresses

Listen to what he say's, the corperation's that want to set up in Dubai want the high end office's, and residential property to be complete which is not ready yet. For instance DIFC, Burj location, and Business Bay, which will take an average of another two year's. If those location's manage to fill all the office space one day with Corp's, and all those people need to live some where, Dubai will be stronger than ever, and take it to the next level.


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## williteverbebuiltnow

shagdash said:


> How about Wall Street Journal??
> 
> 
> Dubai officials are in London and Frankfurt this week on the final leg of a global tour to persuade investors the sheikdom is through the worst. On offer are $6.5 billion of conventional and Islamic bonds to fill government coffers just before Dubai and its corporate proxies face $5 billion of debt repayments.
> 
> In return, investors are likely to demand a high yield -- currently expected to be 6.32% on the five-year sukuk, compared with the 3.85% yield on neighboring Abu Dhabi's similar paper.
> 
> prospective buyers of Dubai debt will no doubt take comfort in the fact that its oil-rich neighbor has the resources to give more support if the need arises.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125665929607410635.html
> 
> My analysis is this:
> 
> If one had the stomach for risky securities, these sukuks would make for far better investments than Dubai property. Why?
> 
> 6.3% yield on the bond. Property yields in Dubai quite likely to go down after accounting for maintenance and falling rents and rising vacancy rates.
> 
> lesser risk - backing dubai govt debt involves less systematic risk and more diversification than limiting yourself to a property portfolio.
> 
> creditworthiness - well we can always depend on auh to bail its neighbor out!
> 
> so with better risk-return tradeoffs, its a slam dunk case in favor of the bond vs property.:banana::banana:




I think it depends if you are looking at the pure rental yield versus the bond yield only . In that respect you are correct; the bond is more liquid, and no pesky tennant to deal with. But there are two other factors to look at 

1) the bond matures; in 5 years you have your money back and in all likelyhood yields on bonds will be lower, so you have re-investment risk (that isnt to say that rental yields wont fall in the future either)

2) The best case on the bond is that you are going to get back the par amount (100%) of your investment at the end of five years. If the market gets much stronger and bond yields fall, as they are likely too, you might get a small capital appreciation on the bond (maybe 10-20%), but in the end they all mature at par... contrast that with a property market that has tipped out by 50% from its highs.... If we get the same strong market that would cause the sukuk to go up in price (world economic growth) then we shoudl see a rebound in the property market in Dubai. 

I think that if you add the (potential) capital appreciation and the rental yield together on Dubai property then you have an investment that outperforms the sukuk (bond yield + (potential) limited capital appreciation) especially when you consider that the point at which (hopefully) the world economy recovers causing the Dubai property market to take off, is exactly the time when your bond has matured (at par) and you have missed the property boat.


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## noir-dresses

Good point, any one with extra cash can invest in the bond, and realestate aswell


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## Imre

shagdash said:


> imre
> 
> in ur opinion what is the right time to buy? now or 2010? also what are the right rates to pay per sq ft in marina, jlt, downtown/business bay?


As I see the prices (sales and rent as well) stabilising now in those areas, no idea how many transactions on the market but it seams reached the bottom.

Just an example, before I saw many 2 beds for sale of the Marinascape for 1.7-1.8 million but now I saw only 1 for 1.9 , anything else more than 2 million , 2.2-2.3-2.4 etc..

Also the Executive Towers at the Business Bay, cheapest was around 700-750 dhs/sqft (huge size) but now many adverts around 800-1000 dhs.

Same people say 2010 would be worst but I cant see why? The market has already got all bed news , like visa, mortgage , week usd etc..

Any war or trouble in the Middle East that would be different but hopefully it wont be ever happening.


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## Imre

Hasnainlali said:


> Imre, I'm thinking of buying a 2 bed in Aurora, Marina Promenade. Front unit, low floor and full marina view. What would you reckon the max price per sqft should be? Thanks.


Which unit is this one exactly?

Many people looking for that one now  (Paloma and Attesa front units also popular)


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## Imre

True Blue said:


> I really have my doubts about you!





noir-dresses said:


> DIDO


you are not alone


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## noir-dresses

Some good new's out of the united states today, they are finally, and officially out of recession with a 3 percent rise. I have a feeling this could directly be good for the UAE in the future.


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## Wannaberich

^^
I think thats more great news than good news.Its effect on the rest of the world will hopefully be huge.
Back in the UK of course we are one of the few major economies still in recession.


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## noir-dresses

This could turn into a world wide domino effect of economy's going forward. We already had a while back Japan, Germany, and France back in the black. China is pushing forward with an expected 8 percent growth this year. 

Some economist's say the US economy is not out of the wood's yet, let's cross our finger's.


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## Wannaberich

Of course back in good old Dubai,the place has never been in recession yet property prices have dropped 60% whilst in recession britain prices have been rising for 5 months ! hno:


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## iownyou

have you guys seen michael moore capitalism a love story?
america is in big truble and i dont think is going to get better till it gets worst there is so much unenployment people are loosing their home everyday i work in the field of stopping people from loosing their home and ever day at least 50 people call my office asking for help


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## iownyou

Right valuation a must for realistic prices 


Dubai needs fair appraisals as property values in the city have gone up quickly in the past few years, according to The Appraisal Foundation. (EB FILE) 





By 

Anjana Kumar on Thursday, October 29, 2009 

A proper appraisal in the UAE can help bridge the gap between prices set by evaluators and the actual selling prices of real estate properties in the secondary market, an international expert has said.

"If you have knowledgeable appraisers and accurate market transaction information, a proper evaluation system can bridge the gap between prices set by evaluators and the actual selling price of a property in the secondary market," said J Carl Schultz, Appraisal Standards Board, The Appraisal Foundation.


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0292009_14df1815ad824d6594a5dbd902486208.aspx


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## iownyou

Revised law to allow single ownership of companies 


Revised law to allow single ownership of companies. (AFP) 





By 

Karen Remo-Listana on Thursday, October 29, 2009 

The revised UAE Company Law, which is now in its final draft, proposes to allow single ownership of limited liability companies (LLC), Emirates Business has learnt.

Currently, at least two people – usually foreign and local partners – are required to establish an LLC.

"They have allowed certain new international changes to companies, i e the limited liability company can be owned by one person. Now it must be at least two people to make it a company," said Essam Al Tamimi, Founder and Senior Partner of Al Tamimi & Company.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0292009_0468374f2a8a4d349b8f8b6062a2016f.aspx


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## moscowboy

shagdash said:


> Dubai house prices seen falling up to 30% in 2010
> 
> by Damian Reilly
> 
> A top Gulf economist says Dubai house prices still have up to another 30 percent to drop.Property prices in Dubai will fall by as much as a further 30 percent in 2010 as the global economy is hit by “a nasty surprise”, the Gulf economist who accurately predicted the credit crunch, said on Thursday.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/571905


can anybody reallky predict economy?


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## Wannaberich

To know when Dubai property prices will start to climb at a good rate,someone who can be bothered needs to work out what the population might be in 2/3/4/5 years and how many completed units there will be.When the correct year is worked out to when the population will fill the majority of units(not including units left purposely empty)then oversupply will start turning into undersupply and prices should climb?


----------



## iownyou

'Gulf countries now have historic chance to accept unified currency' 


Gulf states have a historic opportunity at the moment to approve their unified currency and play a bigger role in the world monetary system, according to a senior French financial official. (EB FILE) 





By 

Abdel Hai Mohamed on Thursday, October 29, 2009 

Gulf states have a historic opportunity at the moment to approve their unified currency and play a bigger role in the world monetary system, according to a senior French financial official.

Jean-Pierre Jouyet, Head of the Financial Regulatory Authority (AMF) and former minister of state for European affairs, said the unified currency is a political rather than a financial decision in the first place.

Jouyet said financial difference among Gulf countries, centred on public debt and deficit, can be overcome. He was speaking at a forum in Abu Dhabi on the experience of the European monetary union, organised by the Emirates Centre for Strategic Studies and Research.


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...0292009_5bbb2f462bc24dd6906170a03595c04d.aspx


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## Morrismarina

Wannaberich said:


> To know when Dubai property prices will start to climb at a good rate,someone who can be bothered needs to work out what the population might be in 2/3/4/5 years and how many completed units there will be.When the correct year is worked out to when the population will fill the majority of units(not including units left purposely empty)then oversupply will start turning into undersupply and prices should climb?


They will also need to factor in the cancellation of the 3 year residency visa and also the tourist visa being reduced from 60 to 30 days. Many who were looking to purchase and retire in Dubai will now be looking elsewhere and like Imre says many from overseas who have bought are looking to sell up now. (It seems from what he is saying that Imre himself will have to leave Dubai soon........this will be a massive loss to all on SSC.) I won't go on about this any more, as some folks on here like HappyLarry think this is all no problem and actually good news. Any future forecasts of property prices need to take this bad attitude from the UAE authorities into account when arriving at their figures.


----------



## nisha

Morrismarina said:


> They will also need to factor in the cancellation of the 3 year residency visa and also the tourist visa being reduced from 60 to 30 days. Many who were looking to purchase and retire in Dubai will now be looking elsewhere and like Imre says many from overseas who have bought are looking to sell up now. (It seems from what he is saying that Imre himself will have to leave Dubai soon........this will be a massive loss to all on SSC.) I won't go on about this any more, as some folks on here like HappyLarry think this is all no problem and actually good news. Any future forecasts of property prices need to take this bad attitude from the UAE authorities into account when arriving at their figures.


Absolutely right. Who in their right minds would want to invest in property in Dubai now? Let's see - Shoddy construction, ever changing visa rules (first it was "permanent visas" then "long term visas" followed by 3 year visas sponsored by developers, then 6 month visas with the person having to exit the country to renew...etc....now what next?), poor maintenance, higher and higher DEWA bills, no control over maintenance bills from developers, developers not adhering to contracts (as if such thing ever existed in Dubai to begin with), awful weather (although to be fair a lot of expats do enjoy hot weather, not me though), the stupid laws relating to debtors ending up behind bars if they default on payments, , Etisalat/Du monopoly, iffy medical care (why else would locals still get aid from the Govt. to be treated out of the country?), education now becoming a joke.....and the list goes on. Invest in Dubai? NO THANK YOU.


----------



## Wannaberich

nisha said:


> Absolutely right. Who in their right minds would want to invest in property in Dubai now? Let's see - Shoddy construction, ever changing visa rules (first it was "permanent visas" then "long term visas" followed by 3 year visas sponsored by developers, then 6 month visas with the person having to exit the country to renew...etc....now what next?), poor maintenance, higher and higher DEWA bills, no control over maintenance bills from developers, developers not adhering to contracts (as if such thing ever existed in Dubai to begin with), awful weather (although to be fair a lot of expats do enjoy hot weather, not me though), the stupid laws relating to debtors ending up behind bars if they default on payments, , Etisalat/Du monopoly, iffy medical care (why else would locals still get aid from the Govt. to be treated out of the country?), education now becoming a joke.....and the list goes on. Invest in Dubai? NO THANK YOU.


Errrrr,yeah did I forget to mention that?
:runaway:


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## nisha

Wannaberich said:


> Errrrr,yeah did I forget to mention that?
> :runaway:


I know I know... didn't read the last 19,000 odd posts, sorry if you/others mentioned that before. But people have such short memories, no? So no harm in bleating on again and again.

HTH - see ya all later


----------



## HappyLarry

nisha said:


> I know I know... didn't read the last 19,000 odd posts, sorry if you/others mentioned that before. But people have such short memories, no? So no harm in bleating on again and again.
> 
> HTH - see ya all later


Nice of you to share your experience of Dubai. I guess you have seen the best and the worst of excess over the past 24 months.

Going from gorging on excess to coming down with a bang would make anyone as cynical.

Good luck with finding a better place. :cheers:


----------



## iownyou

moscowboy said:


> A lot of people would. It is a growing market. Inspite of the downturn, it is still better than many other places.
> 
> Let's see - Shoddy construction,
> Not all of them. Do you think BD is of shoddy construction?
> 
> ever changing visa rules (first it was "permanent visas" then "long term visas" followed by 3 year visas sponsored by developers, then 6 month visas with the person having to exit the country to renew...etc....now what next?),
> 
> Most countries restrict tourist visas to 1 month.
> 
> poor maintenance,
> compare to what?
> 
> higher and higher DEWA bills,
> 
> I am surprised the water is cheaper than in NY. It costs $1 to make 1 gal of desalinated water. they sell it to customers at $0.13/gal. That is insane. They should charge more. stop subsidizing.
> 
> no control over maintenance bills from developers,
> in which country do you find a better deal?
> 
> developers not adhering to contracts (as if such thing ever existed in Dubai to begin with),
> Not all developers.
> 
> awful weather (although to be fair a lot of expats do enjoy hot weather, not me though),
> 
> many people would like this weather for a month in a year.
> 
> the stupid laws relating to debtors ending up behind bars if they default on payments, ,
> In other countries, you may not be in Jail getting free food, but, in the street begging for food.
> 
> Etisalat/Du monopoly,
> what is that?
> 
> iffy medical care (why else would locals still get aid from the Govt. to be treated out of the country?),
> I thought there are some good hospitals there. With same standards as the US hospitals.
> 
> education now becoming a joke.....
> I heard in California, students graduate from college without learning how to sign their name. Is Dubaians education worse?
> 
> and the list goes on. Invest in Dubai? NO THANK YOU.
> I think a lot of people have invested and became very rich. Most of the regular Dubai forumers came there with nothing in hand and are now billionaires. I read somewhere that Altin D is one of those billionaires.
> Heck, I would take that any time.
> 
> one question, do you have a better suggestion for investment?


:cheers:

the visa is good enough for me as i said in america you dont get nothing. the only way to get visa in america is if you invest $500,000 start a company and employ 10 americans or ofcourse if you marry somone or refuge or student or work visa but from a business prospective this is the only way so dubai much better deal i think and hey if you dont like it ohh well somone else will much better standard of living then many many counties in the world.cleaner safer newer better lol i bet you dont even have money to invest in dubai this is why you hate it so much :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## nisha

HappyLarry said:


> Nice of you to share your experience of Dubai. I guess you have seen the best and the worst of excess over the past 24 months.
> 
> Going from gorging on excess to coming down with a bang would make anyone as cynical.
> 
> Good luck with finding a better place. :cheers:


15 years in Dubai, and 2 recessions in that time, Larry Have had a wonderful stint in Dubai, made my money (thanks to which I don't need to work any longer) and have moved on to very green (literally speaking lol) pastures 

I'm not cynical at all - just stating facts - some through first hand experience and other through experiences of friends and colleagues.


----------



## nisha

iownyou said:


> lol *i bet you dont even have money to invest in dubai* this is why you hate it so much :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Very funny:| You've lost your bet, just like you've probably lost on all your property bets:cheers:


----------



## nisha

moscowboy said:


> A lot of people would. It is a growing market. Inspite of the downturn, it is still better than many other places.
> 
> Let's see - Shoddy construction,
> Not all of them. Do you think BD is of shoddy construction?
> No - but a majority are. Springs, Meadows, Lakes, Greens the list goes on.......
> 
> 
> 
> ever changing visa rules (first it was "permanent visas" then "long term visas" followed by 3 year visas sponsored by developers, then 6 month visas with the person having to exit the country to renew...etc....now what next?),
> 
> Most countries restrict tourist visas to 1 month.
> 
> 
> No problem with that - but the emphasis is on *mis-selling* not actively discouraged by the Govt
> 
> poor maintenance,
> compare to what?
> 
> Why compare? If you've paid top $$ for supposedly top class amenities/developments, then that is what one should expect.
> 
> 
> higher and higher DEWA bills,
> 
> I am surprised the water is cheaper than in NY. It costs $1 to make 1 gal of desalinated water. they sell it to customers at $0.13/gal. That is insane. They should charge more. stop subsidizing.
> 
> 
> Just wait and watch, how DEWA bills are going to climb. I've seen their forecasts, enough said.
> 
> no control over maintenance bills from developers,
> in which country do you find a better deal?
> 
> Most countries, where you can own an independent house and not live in a gated community. So you are responsible for your own maintenance and have a choice over who does it and how much you pay.
> 
> developers not adhering to contracts (as if such thing ever existed in Dubai to begin with),
> Not all developers.
> 
> 
> Majority are unscrupulous beyond belief. So tell me which developer is trustworthy in your opinion - Damac?!
> 
> awful weather (although to be fair a lot of expats do enjoy hot weather, not me though),
> 
> many people would like this weather for a month in a year.
> 
> Read my comment within brackets
> 
> the stupid laws relating to debtors ending up behind bars if they default on payments, ,
> In other countries, you may not be in Jail getting free food, but, in the street begging for food.
> 
> 
> You're surely joking - you prefer prison? Says it all really...
> 
> Etisalat/Du monopoly,
> what is that?
> 
> 
> You'd understand when like me, you pay 1.5c a minute to call your home country, pay $35 per month to get ADSL2+ (20mbps )...etc.
> 
> 
> iffy medical care (why else would locals still get aid from the Govt. to be treated out of the country?),
> I thought there are some good hospitals there. With same standards as the US hospitals.
> 
> 
> I've personally (not just me, even my folks) had very bad experience and almost lost my life.
> 
> education now becoming a joke.....
> I heard in California, students graduate from college without learning how to sign their name. Is Dubaians education worse?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> and the list goes on. Invest in Dubai? NO THANK YOU.
> I think a lot of people have invested and became very rich. Most of the regular Dubai forumers came there with nothing in hand and are now billionaires. I read somewhere that Altin D is one of those billionaires.
> Heck, I would take that any time.
> 
> Have you? Billionaires actively posting on this forum. Wow, am I glad to join this forum and rub shoulders with them...
> 
> 
> one question, do you have a better suggestion for investment?
> 
> Yes, but I ain't telling ya:cheers:


.........there you go


----------



## glover

*Singapore Beats London Dubai Beats Tokyo, as investors’ preferred place for doing business - Bloomberg Poll*

_this is really good news! for Dubai, only several years into the making, to be mentioned along side heavy hitters like these global cities. it got 5% of those polled, while tokyo got only 1%, amazing!!!_

Dubai, like China and Singapore, remains a popular regional financial center for investors who want to take advantage of the oil wealth in the Middle East. The sheikdom is the preferred locale of 5 percent of those polled.

“No one can compete with Dubai in terms of a place to live and work,” says Paul Reynolds, managing director and head of debt and equity advisory for the Middle East at NM Rothschild & Sons Ltd., in Dubai. “The Gulf generally is well-positioned in terms of its geography and liquidity, in terms of the provision of the services for business to flourish.” 


*New York Eclipses London as Financial Center in Bloomberg Poll *

By Alison Fitzgerald

Oct. 30 (Bloomberg) -- New York has withstood the worst economic crisis in seven decades and remains the leading global financial center, followed by Singapore, which topped London as investors’ preferred place for doing business, according to Bloomberg Global Poll.


----------



## agod

Imre said:


> you are not alone



Yeh........me too

Ditto


----------



## Cyrus55

Investing in the UAE property market? Who and where are the buyers?


----------



## sidxb

nisha said:


> Absolutely right. Who in their right minds would want to invest in property in Dubai now? Let's see - Shoddy construction, ever changing visa rules (first it was "permanent visas" then "long term visas" followed by 3 year visas sponsored by developers, then 6 month visas with the person having to exit the country to renew...etc....now what next?), poor maintenance, higher and higher DEWA bills, no control over maintenance bills from developers, developers not adhering to contracts (as if such thing ever existed in Dubai to begin with), awful weather (although to be fair a lot of expats do enjoy hot weather, not me though), the stupid laws relating to debtors ending up behind bars if they default on payments, , Etisalat/Du monopoly, iffy medical care (why else would locals still get aid from the Govt. to be treated out of the country?), education now becoming a joke.....and the list goes on. Invest in Dubai? NO THANK YOU.


... you forgot to mention not allowed to eat on metro ... just to add to list


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai`s off-plan buyers cash at high risk - Delayed Projects axed*

Dubai`s off-plan buyers cash at high risk - Delayed Projects axed 

source MaktoobBusiness

DUBAI - Many real estate projects claimed to be on hold due to the collapse of the UAE’s property market have actually been cancelled, but developers do not want to admit this because then they will have to return investors’ money, industry observers say.

Observers also question some developers’ ability to repay investors when projects are finally cancelled, with the prospect of buyers losing millions of dollars.

“In the 18 months before the downturn a number of projects were announced that were not financially viable and therefore unlikely to see completion,” said Tahir Akhtar, chairman of Dubai Business Advisors, who has invested in projects across the UAE.

“Developers do not want to admit this because then they will have to return the funds.”

Billions of dollars worth of developments were launched during the UAE’s real estate boom, which had seen property prices close to double by mid-2008 from the start of 2007.

The boom was driven by speculation and easy credit, with developers funding the construction of projects through off-plan sales.

When the global financial crisis gripped the country’s real estate market prices plummeted as financing and demand dried up, leaving developers unable to fund construction.

UNDER REVIEW

Many developers have put projects on hold or have said they are reviewing projects, but few have come out and outright cancelled projects.

“If they (developers) say it’s cancelled they will have to repay the money to clients. Probably for that reason they are saying it is still on hold,” said Charles Neil, CEO of property consulting firm Landmark Advisory.

Michael Shvo, a well-known luxury real estate marketer from New York, said a developer told him privately a project that is “officially” delayed is actually cancelled, declining to name the developer.

“A developer told me that officially the project is on hold, but it is actually cancelled,” Shvo told a conference at Cityscape Dubai earlier this month, prompting him to call for greater transparency.

The number of real estate projects cancelled or on hold stood at around $408 billion in September, up 18 percent from $346 billion in April, according to the Kuwait Financial Centre.

The Centre, also known as Markaz, said it expects cancellations to rise further in Dubai due to the continued lack of financing and uncertain economic outlook.

UAE real estate regulations vary from emirate to emirate, but currently there are no laws governing how long a project can be on hold before a developer must refund investors’ money.

In Dubai, the UAE’s most developed real estate market, authorities are in the process assessing which projects are unviable and should be cancelled, with the findings due out before the end of the year, according to the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA)

Developers are not allowed to cancel projects in Dubai without the approval of RERA and the Dubai Land Department, RERA said, adding that if a developer does get approval to cancel a project it would have to reimburse investors. 

“It will vary from project to project as which ones will go ahead. Some will end up with half-completed buildings and some may not start (at all),” Landmark’s Neil said.

INVESTOR CONCERN

Investors have become increasingly vocal in voicing their concerns about delayed projects, calling on developers to transfer their investment to another project or refund their money.

Larger companies such as Emaar Properties and Nakheel have set up schemes that allow buyers to swap their investments between projects, but smaller developers lack the project portfolio to offer an alternative, analysts say, leaving investors at risk of losing their money.

Dubai Business Advisors’ Akhtar said a group of investors he belonged to stood to lose around 150 million dirhams ($40.8 million) from projects in the UAE emirate of Ajman that now look like they may not go ahead.

“Not a lot has been done to protect investors," he said.

Dubai brought an escrow account law into force in mid-2007 in an effort to better protect investors - requiring developers to hold buyers’ money in a special bank account until the completion of a project - but many projects had been launched prior to the law, and other emirates were even later in introducing similar regulations.

“Most projects that fall under the escrow provisions of RERA have an established level of comfort and protection. Those projects that are not covered by escrow are a different situation,” said Blair Hagkull, regional managing director of Jones Lang LaSalle.


----------



## Hanna

*Emirates Press Law and the Media Blackout !*

Thursday, October 29, 2009
Emirates Press Law and the Media Blackout 

source arbabMediasociety October 2009

On May 29, the London-based daily The Independent published an article entitled Dubai property scandal claim emerges amid media blackout. According to the report, a group of investors who had bought properties in buildings by Al Fajer Group, a company run by Sheikh Maktoum bin Hasher Al Maktoum, held a press conference to accuse the developer of fraud, according to The Independent.

The investors allege that the developer Al Fajer Properties showed them photographs of buildings it claimed were Ebony 1, Ivory 1 and Ivory 2, but were in fact buildings belonging to another developer.

The investors were demanding a refund totaling GBP86 million. 

Unfortunately, the investors didn’t get the sort of press they had hoped for. 
Incidentally, Sheikh Maktoum bin Hasher Al Maktoum is the brother-in-law to the ruler of Dubai, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, and soon after the press conference finished, Dubai government officials warned news agencies against publishing articles on the press conference.

“I had written half of the article when I was told by my editor to stop,” a Dubai-based reporter told The Independent. “The investor’s group has records of payment, and it’s obvious that they have been shafted, but we can’t write about it.”

Why? 

Because a member of the royal family is directly involved. 


To date, we have not received updates from Al Fajer Group regarding the allegations made against the company.


Rather than view Sheikh Maktoum bin Hasher Al Maktoum as a businessman who may have been involved in conning investors out of GBP86 million, the government views him as a royal first, a businessman second.

And herein lies one of the media law’s biggest problems: most UAE royals hold government offices and executive positions in companies throughout the Emirates. In fact, most UAE-based companies have some connection, either directly or remotely, to members of the royal family.

How, then, can the media ever hold these individuals accountable for their actions, if stories (albeit negative ones) cannot be published if they involve a royal?

Sadly, the draft media law won’t help with this conundrum, and it certainly won’t help with future torture tape cases either. Article 32, which makes criticizing government officials and royals illegal, is artfully ambiguous. According to HWR’s report, “[such] a vague law invites self-serving interpretation by the government, and with courts that have proven compliant in harshly regulating speech, the result will be continued anxiety, self- censorship, and arbitrary enforcement of the law in the UAE. It appears designed to insulate the government from public accountability and criticism and would deter investigative journalism and undermine the media's role as public watchdog.”

According to Samer Muscati, the HWR is putting together a new report, because “the situation is more dire than we anticipated.”

It is dire, especially given that in spite of local restrictions on content, the world press can write and say what they want about the UAE, without ever succumbing to the country’s media laws. And the stories the government doesn’t want the local media to publicize, are being publicized anyway by journalists around the world.

Due to the Internet, the only way to prevent the press from airing your dirty laundry in public is by not having any dirty laundry in the first place.

Interestingly, the draft law is still pending approval. One has to wonder why a country that passes laws so quickly compared to other nations has taken its time with this one.

“I’m hoping that the reason why they haven’t signed the law is because they’re going to amend it,” said Muscati. “They need to reevaluate the law and take the recommendations that we’ve given them.”
It is unclear why the draft law hasn’t been passed. Repeated efforts to contact the NMC for an explanation yielded little more than assurances that the government is working on finalizing the law.
However, transparency was never one of the UAE’s strong points, which is ironic given its desire to maintain its status as a regional business hub. Without transparency, and without press freedom to report on political, business-related and social issues, the UAE is unlikely to repair its mired reputation.

Since the financial crisis hit the region in September 2008, bringing the nation’s billion dollar real estate industry to its wobbly knees, the UAE’s credibility as a stable and profitable developing nation was compromised. Dubai, more so than Abu Dhabi, had over stretched its budget. To date, no one knows how much debt the emirate raked up, but occasional disclosures hint at a distressed economy. Earlier this year, Dubai admitted to owing $80 billion, although analysts suspect the number is higher. Clearly, without the government providing accurate numbers, speculators will assume the worst.

Given Dubai’s drive to raise itself from the economic bog it created running up to the financial crisis, honesty and transparency are tantamount. And without the media’s involvement in reporting information about Dubai and the UAE’s news, any effort to regain investor confidence is slim.

In fact, keeping close tabs on the media, like it does with its companies, will only prove that in spite of the lessons the financial crisis has taught the business world, the UAE hasn’t grasped them yet.


----------



## Wannaberich

moscowboy said:


> A lot of people would. It is a growing market. Inspite of the downturn, it is still better than many other places.
> 
> Let's see - Shoddy construction,
> Not all of them. Do you think BD is of shoddy construction?


Are you saying the BD represents the general standard of Dubais construction?
This one building?
When you bring in thousands of unskilled peasants from places like India and China to build the villas and appartments you are going to get shoddy construction.In many cases appalling construction.To say otherwise is to be deluded.
I expect many of the buildings will have to be demolished in half the time you would expect in other countries before they fall down.


----------



## Wannaberich

Hanna said:


> Given Dubai’s drive to raise itself from the economic bog it created running up to the financial crisis, honesty and transparency are tantamount. And without the media’s involvement in reporting information about Dubai and the UAE’s news, any effort to regain investor confidence is slim.


Investor confidence is a thing of the past.Anyone with any sense would be very careful when buying property in Dubai.Only consider completed properties.
Off-plan sales could be a thing of the past.Who would be stupid enough.
On top of the crumbling prices the useless Dubai goverment has done nothing
to help the situation starting with visas.


----------



## Hanna

*Investor confidence*



Wannaberich said:


> Investor confidence is a thing of the past.Anyone with any sense would be very careful when buying property in Dubai.Only consider completed properties.
> Off-plan sales could be a thing of the past.Who would be stupid enough.
> On top of the crumbling prices the useless Dubai goverment has done nothing
> to help the situation starting with visas.


Hi

I agree 100% the Visa change was another big mistake in their long catalogue of errors in there quest of being one of the big players.They
will learn the hard way about the question of honesty and integrity.


P.S 

In my opinion it will take years to build up confidence in Dubai again,offplan
is to risky an investment and a lot of developers will fade away into the sunset with a load of disgruntled investors counting there losses.:cheers:


----------



## Wannaberich

Hanna said:


> In my opinion it will take years to build up confidence in Dubai again,offplan
> is to risky an investment and a lot of developers will fade away into the sunset with a load of disgruntled investors counting there losses.:cheers:


Hopefully that will be true.Means less construction means oversupply will turn into undersupply alot quicker.
Lets face it the rate of launches/construction was turning into a joke.Too much too fast.


----------



## noir-dresses

Moscowboy, why are you disputing issue's about Dubai with people who have been living, and working there for year's, with first hand experience. People who have even invested hard earned money, and your whole argument is based on what your sister told you while she was there on vacation, or some junk you pull out of the hat that was dug up on the internet.

Enough of your philosophy, please give it a rest. 

You guy's over there in Russia have enough of your own problem's with your commodity based economy that's hurting big time.


----------



## Wannaberich

moscowboy said:


> In USA for example, if you believe the news stories, the constuctuion is done by unskilled peasants from Mexico, who come over illegally and live in fear of being deported, and make peanuts for long hours of toil, living in squalor in tents and open fields, out of sight of policemen. The quality of construction is said to be shoddy at best, but the builders get away with it. There are reportedly 14 million of these illegal peasants hiding in America.


Whats your point?


----------



## HappyLarry

noir-dresses said:


> Moscowboy, why are you disputing issue's about Dubai with people who have been living, and working there for year's, with first hand experience. People who have even invested hard earned money, and your whole argument is based on what your sister told you while she was there on vacation, or some junk you pull out of the hat that was dug up on the internet.
> 
> Enough of your philosophy, please give it a rest.
> 
> You guy's over there in Russia have enough of your own problem's with your commodity based economy that's hurting big time.


I dose of reality from both sides is fair.
Nisha has had it good and now that there is a little squeeze, she feels like Dubai is finished.
We all know economies are cyclical. Things will turn around, as they are beginning to.
As I said before, it may look greener elsewhere but alas it looks to me like bigger poo elsewhere.


----------



## nisha

HappyLarry said:


> Nisha has had it good and now that there is a little squeeze, she feels like Dubai is finished.


has had it good - you're right. However, no squeeze and no poo here - you're wrong there mate, I'm having it even better now...:cheers:


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*Glad that Dubai is sorting out all of their problems....*

Dubai Properties chief arrested

Hashim Al Dabal, chairman of Dubai Properties, has been arrested on suspicion of embezzlement at the company, the emirate’s attorney general confirmed on Friday.

“Mr Al Dabal is accused of abusing his position and earning millions in illegal profit,” Attorney General Essam Essa al-Humaidan said in a phone interview. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/572037-dubai-properties-chairman-arrested


----------



## shagdash

i second everything nisha said. 

i know people who have lived here for more than 10 years - will gladly pay the highly inflated rents to their indian/pakistani/irani landlords, but WILL NOT invest in property here simply because to most property is HOME and if u cannot LIVE in that home for long, it simply ain't worth all the effort.

moscowboy - please don't unnecessarily dispute the residents who live here. 

a friend recently moved to her springs home and the ceiling fell off due to a/c maintenance issues. the tiles in the pool of our apartment building chip off every time it is repaired. and maintenance costs for a 2 bed apt is arnd 25000 dhms pa. and when ur paying the 800-1000 dhms a sq ft, u dont expect door handles to come off in ur hands, ceilings n garages n driveways to be falling thru etc.

education must be the biggest rip off in dubai. where else in the world would u pay 30000 dhms per kid in NURSERY? and grade 1 onwards ur paying 50000 dhms pa per kid (guess which indian businessman is laughing his way to the bank!!). n dont gimme the bull that private schools in the uk and us cost the same. yes but u also have the option of FREE public education which is not even imaginable here in dubai.
n theyr taught in most part by housewives who aren't even qualified with a B.Ed. if u have 3 kids in school, 2 yrs education fees will buy u a nice studio in JLT. i say forget schooling the kids, buy the studio and get some rental income in for the kids 

n just coz some kids in california can't sign their names after high school, do u suggest we use that as a measure to compare how bad schools r in dubai? also may we remind u that higher education in the US is so good, it attracts some of the best brains in the world esp from china and india. the top 2% of the intelligentsia in these countries end up in the US higher education system.

dewa bills can literally scare the s**t outta u. 4000 dhms for a little "villa" with a small pool n a patch of grass they call a garden. uh oh!!

abt the unscrupulous developers - just read the other property threads on this forum like jumeirah park, select, damac...then talk!

jail getting free food? THIS is not MONOPOLY, there is no GET OUT OF JAIL FREE card n ur surely twisted in the head!

Etisalat/Du monopoly - World over telecom deregulation and free competition has promoted this wonderful method of communication called the "internet". If Du/Etisalat do not like ur website, they'll block it the uae, just like they block all VOIP. Oh and lets even not get into the bills.

And most importantly, for a place to become great, for it to have residents that WANT to continue living there, WANT to keep contributing, there must be something about the life that is MORE than just money.

In all my time here in Dubai, I find it to be a cold, hard, materialistic place, where everything is about the MONEY. Where is the art, the poetry, the science, the literature. The things that lift the human spirit beyond just the materialistic stuff of branded clothes, flashy cars, glitzy but half-empty malls. 

dubai imo, has become way too expensive for "normal" folk to live. if one doesn't have a expat package - ie house, car, education, medical et all, it ain't worth it!


----------



## shagdash

nisha said:


> made my money (thanks to which I don't need to work any longer) and have moved on to very green (literally speaking lol) pastures
> 
> I'm not cynical at all - just stating facts - some through first hand experience and other through experiences of friends and colleagues.


nisha

care to post on here abt how u made ur money that allowed u to retire?? (was it thru flipping property in dubai?)
n whr r these green pastures - must make it a point to include it in my list of places to retire


----------



## Philippa C

shagdash said:


> i
> education must be the biggest rip off in dubai. where else in the world would u pay 30000 dhms per kid in NURSERY? and grade 1 onwards ur paying 50000 dhms pa per kid (guess which indian businessman is laughing his way to the bank!!).
> .
> n theyr taught in most part by housewives who aren't even qualified with a B.Ed.
> 
> dewa bills can literally scare the s**t outta u. 4000 dhms for a little "villa" with a small pool n a patch of grass they call a garden. uh oh!!
> 
> !


Shagdash, the figures you quote above are way off the mark. 

One of my children currently attends an "outstanding" (by KHDA standards) primary school in Dubai and we don't pay anything close to 50K a year. There may be women who are also homemakers teaching at the school but they all have the required qualfications from Uk universities as well as many years of teaching experience. 

It is possible to live in a large villa with a large garden and pay 2.5K a month to Dewa by taking care to conserve water and energy (for the sake of the environment) so who ever is paying 4K for a small villa only has themselves to blame.


----------



## iownyou

shagdash said:


> america is not the only place in the world, iownyou. hk and singapore will give u a permanent residency if u live and work there for 3-5 years. Those are great places with a soul. australia, nz, canada all promote migration. all imo, better places to live in, bring up children in.
> life ain't all abt shinier, newer, better. and u choose to ignore the darker side of dubai - the labour camps, the squalor, the curbs on any kind of freedom of press. i suppose we dont need to ask where ur priorities in life lie.


LABOUR CAMPS ARE MUCH BETTER THEN THE AFRICAN AND CHINESE SLAVERY AMERCA HAD FOR 300 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bash:


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> so we can say now : The Damac is the King ?
> 
> they have more projects U/C then the 3 "ex big" together:lol:


I think there was a press release about Damac CEO resigning. He must have filled his pockets and is getting out before they slap on the cuffs


----------



## noir-dresses

Have you ever been told how much you look like Bert :colgate:

iownyou, what's every body in the states saying about the recession being over ?


----------



## iownyou

noir-dresses said:


> Have you ever been told how much you look like Bert :colgate:
> 
> iownyou, what's every body in the states saying about the recession being over ?


WE DONT SEE IT.
IS NOT OVER IN MAIN STREET BUT IT MIGHT BE OVER ON WALL ST.
JOBS ARE BEEN LOST EVERY MONTH ABOUT 500,000 PEOPLE LOOSING JOBS HOUSE PRICESS ARE STILL DECLINING AND PEOPLE ARE LOOSING MORE HOMES NOW THEN EVER BECAUSE EVERYONE USED ALL THEIR SAVINGS TO PAY FOR THE MORTGAGE AND NOW RUNNING OUT OF MONEY.I THINK 2 THINGS CAN HAPPEN TO REALLY BRING THE WORLD ONTO A NEW BIGGINING.

1ST THING- IN DECEMBER THE G20 MEETING ON THE GLOBAL WORMING COULD MAKE NEW RULES AND START PRODUCING MAJOR WIND POWER AND SOLAR POWER GIVING ALOT OF JOBS TO AMERICANS.( THERE IS ALOT OF WIND AND SOLAR POWER PROJECT U/C IN USA NOW)
2ND THING- IS GOING TO BE A VERY VERY SLOW RECOVERY THAT IS GOING TO TAKE AT LEAST 2 TO 3 YEARS

UNENPLOYMENT IS HIGH SO I DONT KNOW WHO IS SPENDING MONEY WHEN PEOPLE ARE LOOSING THEIR JOBS AND HOMES LOL I THINK IS ALL BS


----------



## noir-dresses

There saying it's a fake recovery because of all the money that was printed, cash for clunker's, bailout's, the stim package's, etc, etc. Could go back in the red again next quarter, and after that.

The world really need's the US economy to pick up, that's when I truly think Dubai's recovery will happen, untill then we're still on life support.


----------



## Imre

^^:lol:

*All caps*

In typography, all caps (short for all capitals or all capitalized; often written as ALL CAPS) refers to text or a font in which all letters are capital letters.

*Internet*

This form of typography also appears in on-line forums. It was once an inevitable byproduct of using machines with limited support for lowercase text (such as certain s, early Apple II models), but as full support of ASCII became standard, it became solely identified with "shouting" or attention-seeking behaviour. As a result, netiquette generally discourages the use of all caps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_caps


----------



## Imre

any idea what is the price here now?


----------



## nisha

sidxb said:


> ... you forgot to mention not allowed to eat on metro ... just to add to list


I think that is a very good rule actually, unless you're being flippant.




shagdash said:


> nisha
> 
> care to post on here abt how u made ur money that allowed u to retire?? (was it thru flipping property in dubai?)
> n whr r these green pastures - must make it a point to include it in my list of places to retire


Shagdash,
Simple really, I was very highly paid (retired to spend more time at home and with kids) and so is hubby highly paid at the moment. And we didn't "live up" to our income. We saved around 90% of our income in Dubai from 2006-2009 whilst living very well.

Will send you a pm about the other info


----------



## shagdash

sidxb said:


> So you jumped ships and came to Dubai during last property recession in Singapore and assumed market would rise in Dubai forever ?
> Once back to HK , you would live there for few months and than start rhetoric about 'endless' problems of HK remembering about how "great" Dubai ( having lived there yourself ) was. seems Just like property cycles , you are in a cycle of always ending up in market hitting recession
> 
> Sometimes its good to see world with rose tinted glasses instead of always seeing it through broken glasses
> 
> UAE is just passing through a cycle and once global recession is over with much improved infrastructure the trade and tourism industry would be bigger than before.
> Now if you would write 100's of time on SSC that economy in Dubai has come to an end , still you would not be able to get an apartment by trading oranges


a friend was telling me today how he was hyped into buying the DP World IPO at 1.3 per share. He has never seen that price back again. DP World trades in a band of .4-.6 ever since.

DP World is the 4th largest port in the WORLD. But yet my friend who invested in the stock is running 50% book losses.

Investment in Dubai Property is the same - for the long term you may make ur money back but ONLY if u bought at the right price. 

DP World at 2009 est PE of 26 is in no way an overweight, just as dubai property at a PE of 27 (as an example a 2 bed apt in the marina today at 1.6 mil fetching 80k gross rent) would be in no way a good buy.

would DP World and Dubai Property ever go up and reach its highs again? yes it would - but by that time, inflation would have eaten away most of the appreciation and by that time, my friend n many dubai property owners will only be breaking even. i dont have the time and the patience to explain what a bad piece of investment that is. 

and had u and other property owners or even my friend placed ur money in say, the hand seng index for example, ud be doing quite well for urselves TODAY, not some time into the murky distant future.

but of course, the only thing ur good at doing is taking personal potshots and underhanded comments. given ur comprehension levels and maturity, i'm not at all surprised!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Downsizing Dubai: Will the Middle East's golden child ever be the same again?
30 October 2009*

By Roxane McMeeken 

The UAE is waking up … but it has one hell of a hangover, and it’s going to take more than a couple of fizzy tablets to make it all better. So what sort of market is emerging? Well, the chances are it’s going to be good news for shed builders

It’s only 7pm on Tuesday night but it is already buzzing in Neo, the swanky cocktail bar at the top of The Address, a 63-storey hotel in Dubai. The view from the floor-to-ceiling window is stunning. We are immediately opposite the 818m Burj Dubai, the world’s tallest tower, which is due to open with one almighty party on 2 December, the UAE’s National Day. On the lake in front of it, the world’s largest fountain performs a mesmerising dance on the half hour. Beyond are the glittering lights of the city … including those of tower cranes, because like the nightlife, construction is moving again. The roads are clogged with traffic and the armies of labourers are back on the city’s sites. 

In fact, six months after the global recession brought Dubai to a screeching halt, it does not feel like there is a recession here at all. Down the road, Abu Dhabi is busy again, too. But despite the evidence of recovery, nobody thinks the UAE is about to turn back into the rocket economy that exploded so spectacularly at the end of last year, and many British firms here are still struggling. So the question is, exactly what will the new UAE market look like? 

Stop and start

The downturn in the UAE came suddenly, particularly in Dubai (see box), but the signs are that recovery will be more tentative. The Association of Consultants and Engineers (ACE) forecasts that, after the Emirates’ construction economy contracted 15% in 2009, it will grow 1% in 2010 and 3% in 2011. Not good, but still better than the UK, which also fell 15% this year and is expected to shrink 1% next.

UK Trade and Investment (UKTI), the arm of government that helps British firms to work abroad, certainly wants to encourage those in the UAE to stay there, and for others to join them. Phil Dowrick, a business specialist at UKTI, says: “Dubai is not as dead as people think and it’s hard to see how the emirate will not remain the regional hub for financial services, tourism, transport, trade and exhibitions.” 

Some of the 500 or so projects that had been put on hold in the UAE in September are also restarting. These include a 9 million ft2 mixed-use project called Tameer Towers on Al Rheem island in Abu Dhabi, which has a project value of 7bn dirham (£1.2bn); a 400m dirham project to build a headquarters for the municipal government of Abu Dhabi’s western region; and a residential project of up to 1 million ft2 by developer Bloom Properties in Abu Dhabi.

New projects are getting under way as well. Arabtec, the UAE’s biggest contractor, which employs 42,000 people, has just won a number of deals. These include the 638m dirham Silverene Twin Towers, a residential scheme at Dubai Marina for Cayan Investment & Development; the Onyx development, a 686m dirham office scheme on Dubai’s Sheik Zayed Road; and the Nation Towers, a 1.6bn dirham mixed-use scheme on Abu Dhabi’s Corniche seafront. 

Rival contractor Al Futtaim Carillion says it is also winning work. Richard Howson, the managing director at the firm, says: “Dubai is waking up. There are a number of hospitals, hotels and lots of infrastructure projects moving forward. There is also a lot to do in areas like Meydan [a 76 million ft2 “horse racing city” near the mouth of Dubai Creek].” 

Lingering problems 

It might not be surprising that Abu Dhabi is starting to pick up where it left off. After all, it has the world’s second largest combined reserves of oil and gas per head after Qatar, and the world’s biggest sovereign wealth fund – thought to be worth $400bn. 

Unfortunately, it’s a different story for Dubai, which has no oil, relies on lending to fuel its development and is presently weighed down with debt. Its government-related entities (GREs), including top developers, collectively owe between $80bn and $90bn, of which $50bn is due by 2012, according to credit rating agency Standard & Poor’s. 

The question commentators are asking is whether Abu Dhabi will bail out Dubai. One indication that it might is the $10bn (£6.1bn) lifeline it has thrown its neighbour. This came when Dubai issued the first half of a $20bn bond in February, which was bought by Abu Dhabi’s central bank. Dubai is expected to issue the remaining $10bn imminently and recent reports suggest it may seek a further $6.5bn of medium-term notes.

But Standard & Poor’s, which has downgraded its ratings for a number of Dubai’s GREs, warns that February’s deal, which amounts to a loan, is “insufficient to meet its debt”. More worryingly for the contractors and consultants that are owed so much, one senior industry source is concerned that the bond money has gone out of the country to pay debts owed to foreign banks rather than to firms working in the emirate. 

So will Abu Dhabi take further steps to back up Dubai? The widely held view in the UAE is that it cannot afford to let Dubai fail: despite the rivalry between the two, Abu Dhabi’s reputation rests on the that of the region as a whole. That said, one expert warns that it could be some time before any deal to rescue to Dubai is struck. He says: “Behind the scenes there could be a bit of classic Arabian haggling going on. Abu Dhabi will want something in return for bailing out Dubai, be it land or a stake in key companies. But Dubai can see how embarrassing it is for Abu Dhabi to have it in a mess and it may be refusing to concede anything in return for being rescued.” 

Whatever deals are being done in the UAE’s power centres, the longer it continues, the longer contractors and consultants must go without their fees. The ACE now estimates that UK engineers are owed £500m in the UAE as a whole, and Dubai’s main arbitration body is struggling to process almost £3bn of disputes. Some consultants say privately that they are being forced to accept discounts on their fees of up to 50%, and what money is handed over is arriving late. Mario Pishiri, managing director of property at Hyder, says payment periods are double what they were a year ago. “We’re looking at 140-160 days now, which does put a strain on your business.” 

Contractors, meanwhile, tend to say that for their much larger fees they are accepting deferred payments. Tom Barry, chief executive of Arabtec, says: “We’ve not agreed to any discounts, just rescheduled payments.”

New reality 

As with any post-apocalyptical landscape, the future UAE is going to be a place of scavenging, making do and getting by. Chris Johnson, managing principal at architect Gensler, says: “Things will start moving again but there will not be rich pickings for anyone. It will be about grafting hard and earning little.” 

Margins will be lower for everyone. Contractors say those they are making on new contracts have fallen from 15-20% 18 months ago to 5-10% now. Agreed payment periods are 60 to 90 days. As for payment up front, this is either a low percentage of the price or zero. Indeed, many deals being signed presently allow the client to make no payment at all for the first 120 days of the job, which will make it particularly tough to buy resources at the start of a project, especially given the dearth of bank loans. 

Clients are also keen to go down the design-and-build route, which puts most of the risk on the contractor, rather than spread it over the project team. Contractors are coming under pressure to agree to higher performance bonds, too. Whereas these used to be about 10% of the contract value, some clients are asking for 40%. 

The new market will be equally tough for consultants. The regional boss of a one firm says: “Fees have gone down to 2005 levels – that is, about 20% lower than 18 months ago – and I think that could reach 25% in the coming months.” 

He also questions whether, once current projects are finished, the pipeline coming through will be enough to pick up the slack. 

And the projects that do come through will be a good deal more prosaic than those of the boom years. John Oliver, who heads consulting engineer WSP’s UAE operation, says the ostentatious hotels and theme parks so characteristic of Dubai will become “rare, one-off projects, rather than the bread and butter of the market”. 

It could be argued that all the tourist attractions the UAE needs are probably either built or at least under way. Now, Oliver says, the UAE will focus more on transport and the industrialisation of the country, including oil and gas development and factories. This means the work coming through will be in the slightly less glamorous sectors of industrial sheds and energy plants. 

In the residential market, the emphasis will shift from new build to refurbishment and asset management. Oliver says: “We’re no longer going to see 10-year-old buildings being knocked down. Instead, it will be about getting better value from existing stock, so I’m expecting to see a rise in asset management services.” Jumeira Gardens, the 110 million m2 region of Dubai being developed by Meraas, is likely to be a case in point. The developer is understood to be swapping its plan to build a neighbourhood from scratch for a development based on a mix of new build and refurbishment. 

Whatever you are building, it will take longer. One contractor says that projects that would have typically taken 18 months are now being programmed to take two-and-a-half years, because of the lack of liquidity in the market and the fact that clients are seeking to reduce risk. 

One consultant says an added difficulty will be deciding which clients are safe to work for. He says: “We’ve all become very nervous over whether we’ll get paid and the rule is, the closer the client is to the state, the more secure you are. People are very wary of pseudo-government-linked companies. Government entities may be more bureaucratic but we’ll favour them.” He adds that contractors may seek guarantees from developers in future, rather than vice versa.

As firms grapple with their slump in income, more pain awaits their employees. WSP’s Oliver reckons that up to 20% of those working in the UAE’s construction industry could be laid off. He says: “You have to question whether there is sufficient work here. While we are well diversified, we expect to see others, who are not so well positioned, cutting staff by 10-20% as workloads fall further.” 

How far the UAE will recover is open to debate, but it seems unlikely that demand for property will ever hit 2007 levels again. Last month a report from real estate agent Colliers CRE said 25% of Dubai’s properties were empty. The report added that about 340,000 units would be on the market in Dubai by the end of 2009 and another 34,300 would be completed over the next two years. One senior source believes that the construction market will never return to even 50% of what it was. 

Whatever happens, it seems hard to disagree with Tom Barry at Arabtec when he says, “things in the UAE will never be the same again”.

Read more: http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=667&storycode=3151967&c=1#ixzz0VSMumaDR


----------



## shagdash

ryeman said:


> Where to start....lets compare Dubai to the great USA and Canada
> wrt anecdotal evidence like ceilings falling...
> 
> not anecdotal. real. from a friend whose ceiling actually DID fall off.
> Education cost... I find it very cheap compared to paying 50 percent of my salary in taxes.
> 
> with proper tax planning, u can save on taxes AND get ur kids a good education at no cost. for many it works out cheaper simply to live at home and pay the taxes (maybe for u tis different). u have to consider that not everyone falls in the highest tax brackets and for those people, education IS expensive here.
> Concerning quality, the facilities are far better here in the UK/USA style schools compared to american public schools. In the UK/USA style schools, you need proper credentials before they will let you teach, not the housewives as you claim.
> 
> Obviously u haven't had to deal with the G**S schools here.
> you only notice the difference when you compare post-grad schools.
> 
> Yet most dubai schools boast the fact that they prepare u for university education in the UK/US.
> My villa dewa bills average aed 500 a month, less than i paid for electricity in Canada in a similiar size electric heated house.
> 
> My apt dewa bill comes to 1500 dhms a month (and aircon is paid for as part of maintenance).
> Developers, whatever country they live in, are scum.
> 
> i agree :lol:
> Telecoms..... I use voip every day in dubai. Standard calls from canada to dubai are twice the price as dubai - canada. Cell phone packages here are far cheaper than canada and I am free to get whatever phone I want. Internet pricing is more, but unlimited downloads here. In summary, my telecom bill in dubai is lower than what I was paying in Canada.
> 
> my poor maid is stuck as voip is illegal here (if u exclude skype to skype calls). of course for her level of literacy i cannot ask her to teach herself and her family back home how to use skype.
> 
> and sadly, most people do consider money their primary motivator and that greed will keep Dubai growing.
> 
> yes there is greed. but greed aint always good (beg to differ from gordon gekko in wall street here). and dubai will grow but at a far more sustainable pace.





Philippa C said:


> Shagdash, the figures you quote above are way off the mark.
> 
> One of my children currently attends an "outstanding" (by KHDA standards) primary school in Dubai and we don't pay anything close to 50K a year.
> 
> my son goes to nursery at 30k a year. a friend's son goes to a G**S school at 50k a year (many schools at 50k a year - Repton, Wellington, DAA, DC). u maybe lucky that ur not paying that much AND your son goes to an "outstanding" school, but not everyone is that lucky. Most are just happy to simply have places in any school at all.
> 
> There may be women who are also homemakers teaching at the school but they all have the required qualfications from Uk universities as well as many years of teaching experience.
> 
> again, check my comment above about G**S schools. also perhaps see if u can talk to a few ex-SABIS teachers.


pls see above


----------



## nisha

Imre said:


> Dubai Properties, Nakheel,Sama Dubai,Amlak,Tamweel,Dubai Islamic Bank,Union Properties, Deyaar etc.. only the Emaar left


Time they start investigating banks too. Especially look at loans, concessions, conflict of interest wrt senior management. They will be astounded by the level of corruption that exists.


----------



## shagdash

nisha said:


> I think that is a very good rule actually, unless you're being flippant.
> 
> nisha, sidxb is the resident basher of anyone who dares to comment anything that is negative abt dubai. of course his level of intelligence and maturity only extends to making flippant and mostly irrelevant personal comments
> 
> Shagdash,
> Simple really, I was very highly paid (retired to spend more time at home and with kids) and so is hubby highly paid at the moment. And we didn't "live up" to our income. We saved around 90% of our income in Dubai from 2006-2009 whilst living very well.
> 
> really admire how u saved 90%. i try quite hard, but expenses mount to almost 50% of the income.
> Will send you a pm about the other info


awaiting ur pm


----------



## sidxb

shagdash said:


> a friend was telling me today how he was hyped into buying the DP World IPO at 1.3 per share. He has never seen that price back again. DP World trades in a band of .4-.6 ever since.
> 
> DP World is the 4th largest port in the WORLD. But yet my friend who invested in the stock is running 50% book losses.
> 
> Investment in Dubai Property is the same - for the long term you may make ur money back but ONLY if u bought at the right price.
> 
> DP World at 2009 est PE of 26 is in no way an overweight, just as dubai property at a PE of 27 (as an example a 2 bed apt in the marina today at 1.6 mil fetching 80k gross rent) would be in no way a good buy.
> 
> would DP World and Dubai Property ever go up and reach its highs again? yes it would - but by that time, inflation would have eaten away most of the appreciation and by that time, my friend n many dubai property owners will only be breaking even. i dont have the time and the patience to explain what a bad piece of investment that is.
> 
> and had u and other property owners or even my friend placed ur money in say, the hand seng index for example, ud be doing quite well for urselves TODAY, not some time into the murky distant future.
> 
> but of course, the only thing ur good at doing is taking personal potshots and underhanded comments. given ur comprehension levels and maturity, i'm not at all surprised!


Since you are a novice at investments w/o any investments your analysis can be excused. Once you spend sometime you would realize that there is no "HAD" when it comes to personal investments :bash: Had I bought Emaar at 1.5 .... Had I sold it at 10 OR Had he brought DP World at 0.4 ... its all childish and a good time pass if you want to dream of castles .

I never want to get into personal calls but to think of someone who never invested in Dubai , is not interested to Buy in Dubai and never wants to buy in Dubai ... why such a soul is wasting all his energy to google "Dubai downfall" and posting every single news , negating every single positive news / comment by anyone . 
Initially I thought probably you "wish" the market to fall further so that you can manage to enter the market but since you never want to enter the market either ... I cant control myself but to imagine ...ummm ... it starts with L and ends with an R and has two eyes b/w them :nuts:

----------------------------

Regarding the ongoing arrest of company executives I believe it was very much needed in Dubai. It would be more helpful if alongwith these high profile arrests they also make stringent procedures so that this corruption can be avoided. 
Just like mandatory escrow account , more procedures particularly standardization of how apts / villas are measured is needed .


----------



## shagdash

sidxb said:


> I never want to get into personal calls I cant control myself but to imagine ...ummm ... it starts with L and ends with an R and has two eyes b/w them :nuts:


Another of your "i don't want to make personal comments" but here you go another unnecessary, immature, underhanded PERSONAL comment coming ur way.
oh wait, i forgot ur comprehension levels r so low, u dont even understand what u wrote!


----------



## DaYFox

Imre said:


> found prices on the developer website , it seems expensive now.. saw a resale somewhere for 1700 dhs/sqft


Wow! Nice!

Anyways, around 2000AED is a reasonable price (should be the price) for BB -average- I would say. 1000 is just undervalued imho. Some years in the future even more -imho again! On top, this tower looks not bad with those balconies...


----------



## iownyou

ok so dubai will be a ghost town desert town all the companies will close down and everyone will leave?:lol:


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## IISinbadII

Is the worst over?

I am seeing property prices and rents inching up. Also real estate brokers are active again.. sending e-mails and making phone calls....a sign of recovery, may be?


----------



## 234sale

AppleMac said:


> Are Asteco any good? (well as good as any property management company get)


They are mainly british, hence link to savills. Unsure if you can get a single appartment, sorry I was thinking whole buildings again.

Call them and ask for John Stevens, He is the head of the property managment department.

I like them as they are solid and usually unbiased rather than sell, sell, sell merchants.

http://web.asteco.com/eng/property_management_services.asp


----------



## Jondubai

*Advice needed!*

Hi, 
I'm new to this site, buti have a place at crw. I just needed advice regarding my contract. According to the contract I'm supposed to pay 30% on completition. But today DSC sent me a letter saying that I need to pay up according to RERA. Which means 10% pending on completition. So does my contract hold no value? I understand payments have to be made as per the percentage completed on crw but don't get how they can change my last payment due on completition. Please advice. 
Thanks!


----------



## jagmp

Wannaberich said:


> However prices in the UK have been rising for the last few months.In fact prices are now higher than at this stage last year.
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...d-first-annual-rise-in-19-months-1812311.html


how can prices be rising when unemployment is increasing and the economy is still in recession.it seems crazy.the first thing to point out is that prices are climbing only in certain parts of the country.London is experiencing a bubble.its different story in midland.at worst prices will slide again as unemployment goes up tax rises interest rate increases and morgage will be becoming more difficult to obtained.

even in central London market is not normal.figures should be taken with pinch of salt.they are based on very limited number of transections.while nice houses in great locations might sell in days ordinary houses are not moving.thing might not be as rosy as we are made to believe.


----------



## amplesou

Jondubai said:


> Hi,
> I'm new to this site, buti have a place at crw. I just needed advice regarding my contract. According to the contract I'm supposed to pay 30% on completition. But today DSC sent me a letter saying that I need to pay up according to RERA. Which means 10% pending on completition. So does my contract hold no value? I understand payments have to be made as per the percentage completed on crw but don't get how they can change my last payment due on completition. Please advice.
> Thanks!


Sports city has delayed payment plans while construction has caught up to RERA regulations !
These construction has now caught up and hence a replacement payment plan has now been put in place but your contract is still valid !
The payment plan could change again i suppose !


----------



## True Blue

tehsin123 said:


> So who wanted only good news??
> 
> Dubai Properties chief arrested
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/572037-dubai-properties-chairman-arrested
> 
> How can one feel safe in this market? Every other day someone getting arrested for fraud or similar crimes in real-estate. How can you compare this with developed market like canada, US and UK.


Funny thing is you answered your own question " _Every other day someone getting arrested for fraud or similar crimes in real-estate_" The authorities are proactively pursuing those that are out to steal your money.

This is not unique to UAE, one of the biggest kinds of fraud in the UK is linked to real estate in the form of mortgage fraud. It is not interesting news for the UK tabloids so we don't get to read much about it.


----------



## True Blue

jagmp said:


> how can prices be rising when unemployment is increasing and the economy is still in recession.it seems crazy.the first thing to point out is that prices are climbing only in certain parts of the country.London is experiencing a bubble.its different story in midland.at worst prices will slide again as unemployment goes up tax rises interest rate increases and morgage will be becoming more difficult to obtained.
> 
> even in central London market is not normal.figures should be taken with pinch of salt.they are based on very limited number of transections.while nice houses in great locations might sell in days ordinary houses are not moving.thing might not be as rosy as we are made to believe.


Prices are rising because the market has been suppresed for 3 years. People have been scared to move because of the risk of negative equity. Now they are more confident that prices are at the bottom and it is safe to make the move. Remember that part of the market is driven by needs, some people need a bigger house but could not find a buyer for their first time buyer home.


----------



## iownyou

moscowboy said:


> Very good frank discussion. very informative.
> I have lost all my life savings in the stock market.
> all investments are risky everywhere.


i have learned one important thing with investing that most people dont think about and maybe it will help all of you in the future

you lose when you sell but if you hold on you never lose. with time things will go back to the same price as you bought them for if it is the same for stocks or property. but when you sell thats when you loose my friend she sold her stocks in january this year and now is back up so she lost because she sold too fast


----------



## Jondubai

*So do I follow rera regulations?*

Hi,
thanks for your reply  so do I need to follow the new payment plan or the one stated in my contract? What happens if I can't follow the new payment plan and stick to my contract? Cam they cancel my booking and my contract? Please advise


----------



## True Blue

Crash! what crash?

Lots of people are talking about the property market price crash in Dubai. I'm not convinced there was a crash at all and subscribe to the reality that it was only a correction.

2007 and 2008 saw a market based on hype trading mainly in futures (off plan). This is real estate we are talking about, bricks and mortar, but instead of bricks and mortar the market was saturated with paper and promises(sales and purchase agreements). 

It was obvious to most professional investors and some not so professional, that the market was seriously overheating and was being driven by greed and ease of obtaining credit. People did not need these homes being offered, they just saw them as an easy way of making a quick buck and the longer they took to get on the first rung of the payment ladder, the more opportunity they were losing. These people causes the hysteria which led to the price hikes and subsequent correction. The investors did not matter if they had never heard of the developer before or if they even had a track record at all, it was DUBAI they were buying into and as such they could not lose!! Interesting now that the heating up has been suddenly quenched by a dose of banking reality, now it is DUBAI they want to blame for their unforeseen missfortune!

It is difficult to get a mortgage in Dubai, because they are getting the market back under control. Can't you see that banks would be falling over themselves to lend at 9% in the current climate. The reason they don't bend over backwards in Dubai is that the market was out of control and needed to be reined in. I am also convinced the authorities are also well aware of the current visa situation and are also using this as a tool to regulate the market. I would expect visa availability to improve once the authorities are happy that the situation is back under control.

I bought into the market in 2005 at an average of 725AED/ft for marina apartments. Based on this fact, I am not seeing any price crash instead I am seeing a market begining to mature in line with my expectations. The build out of overpriced apartments and villas is going to contine to fuel the market crash sentiments of the buyers of these properties. Their opinions and mine will always differ but at the end of the day Dubai will survive and prosper even if they don't and they will continue to blame DUBAI for all their own missgivings.


^^Just my considered opinion from own experience.


----------



## True Blue

iownyou said:


> i have learned one important thing with investing that most people dont think about and maybe it will help all of you in the future
> 
> you lose when you sell but if you hold on you never lose. with time things will go back to the same price as you bought them for if it is the same for stocks or property. but when you sell thats when you loose my friend she sold her stocks in january this year and now is back up so she lost because she sold too fast


Put simply!

You lose if you do not pay the right price. Warren Buffet made all his money from knowing the true value of a stock or share. He only ever bought if he could buy for less than the true value and conversely only sold at above the true value.

Using your system, you buy no matter what the value and if you were wrong you are locked in for God knows how long. That is a fundamentaly wrong approach to investment in my opinion. A bit like the Dubai off plan sales saga.

If people took more time to do a bit more research or be prepared to walk away from the first opportunity and wait for the next one, which may be better, then they would not lose their money so easy. A fool and their money......


----------



## amplesou

Jondubai said:


> Hi,
> thanks for your reply  so do I need to follow the new payment plan or the one stated in my contract? What happens if I can't follow the new payment plan and stick to my contract? Can they cancel my booking and my contract? Please advise


Just e-mail dsc with your questions!
I guess you go with the new payment plan !
The new payment plan is i guess enforced by and approved by rera so this is the way forward ,but if you are having problems then maybe D.Sc. will help i don,t know but you will have to speak with them !


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> Crash! what crash?
> 
> Lots of people are talking about the property market price crash in Dubai. I'm not convinced there was a crash at all and subscribe to the reality that it was only a correction.
> 
> 2007 and 2008 saw a market based on hype trading mainy in futures (off plan). This is real estate we are talking about, bricks and mortar, but instead of bricks and mortar the market was saturated with paper and promises(sales and purchase agreements).
> 
> 
> 
> ^^Just my considered opinion from own experience.



I remember my friend having ready 1 bed apartments in Disocvery Gardens. She kept asking why they were so hard to sell at 900/ft2 when 1 beds "on plan" in sports city et al were selling at 1100-1200/ft2?

They were in a worse location, and not built.

This was a real physical example, and a beautiful warning to me of an imepnding correction on the horizon.

Did I react.... did I bollox.:lol:


----------



## jagmp

iownyou said:


> i have learned one important thing with investing that most people dont think about and maybe it will help all of you in the future
> 
> you lose when you sell but if you hold on you never lose. with time things will go back to the same price as you bought them for if it is the same for stocks or property. but when you sell thats when you loose my friend she sold her stocks in january this year and now is back up so she lost because she sold too fast


sometimes it is better to cut your loses and run. i have seen several blue chip stocks disappearing altogather.


----------



## gerald.d

jagmp said:


> sometimes it is better to cut your loses and run. i have seen *several blue chip stocks disappearing altogather.*


This kind of thing can be quite interesting to examine (although the history is surprisingly difficult to track down).

Just as an example, of the top 10 global companies (by market cap) in April 1999, only 3 remained in the top 10 just 8 years later.

Looking at it the other way around, of the top 10 in April 2007, 4 weren't even in the top 20 just 8 years previously.


----------



## shagdash

iownyou said:


> i have learned one important thing with investing that most people dont think about and maybe it will help all of you in the future
> 
> you lose when you sell but if you hold on you never lose. with time things will go back to the same price as you bought them for if it is the same for stocks or property. but when you sell thats when you loose my friend she sold her stocks in january this year and now is back up so she lost because she sold too fast


u can hold on for 10 years, u will even get back ur purchase price, but that purchase price will be worth far less in real terms as inflation would have eaten most of it away.


----------



## shagdash

True Blue said:


> Put simply!
> 
> You lose if you do not pay the right price. Warren Buffet made all his money from knowing the true value of a stock or share. He only ever bought if he could buy for less than the true value and conversely only sold at above the true value.
> 
> Using your system, you buy no matter what the value and if you were wrong you are locked in for God knows how long. That is a fundamentaly wrong approach to investment in my opinion. A bit like the Dubai off plan sales saga.
> 
> If people took more time to do a bit more research or be prepared to walk away from the first opportunity and wait for the next one, which may be better, then they would not lose their money so easy. A fool and their money......


this is so true! ONLY if u paid the right price, would you come out winners in the long run. Warren Buffet's rule of thumb was a PE of 7 times earnings. anything above that he considered expensive and would not buy. I think many places in Dubai is still priced way over what would be a good buy. PEs are way above the 7 that Buffet would buy, more in line with 20-30 which would be a sell in his books.


----------



## shagdash

gerald.d said:


> This kind of thing can be quite interesting to examine (although the history is surprisingly difficult to track down).
> 
> Just as an example, of the top 10 global companies (by market cap) in April 1999, only 3 remained in the top 10 just 8 years later.
> 
> Looking at it the other way around, of the top 10 in April 2007, 4 weren't even in the top 20 just 8 years previously.


i think new technology and innovation has a lot to do with it. my guess would be the new ones entering the top 10/top 20 list would all be firms that somehow served their customers in a better way using latest technology, customer innovations etc.
Google automatically comes to mind. Where was it 10 years ago. And yet, it must be in the Top 10 list now.


----------



## jagmp

assets are bought for either growth or yield.one can keep them as long as yield justifies it even if they are not growing. many utilities stocks are bought purely for yield.in case of property if rents starts falling along with the prices it is a red signal.when net yield can not keep up with the rate of inflation your capital gets eroded in real terms.


----------



## iownyou

True Blue said:


> Put simply!
> 
> You lose if you do not pay the right price. Warren Buffet made all his money from knowing the true value of a stock or share. He only ever bought if he could buy for less than the true value and conversely only sold at above the true value.
> 
> Using your system, you buy no matter what the value and if you were wrong you are locked in for God knows how long. That is a fundamentaly wrong approach to investment in my opinion. A bit like the Dubai off plan sales saga.
> 
> If people took more time to do a bit more research or be prepared to walk away from the first opportunity and wait for the next one, which may be better, then they would not lose their money so easy. A fool and their money......


yes you have a good point. but i remeber in 2005,2006,2007 the market was full of sells people and kioscos in the malls selling dreams so its hard to filter true and know what is the good project and not the good project. ofcourse it was easy to know the good location but not the project.and when your in a different country and you dont know who to belive is hard.
i was lucky i had a friend of mine who moved from california and opened a real estate company in dubai and he advised me of solid projects but not everyone was as lucky as me


----------



## iownyou

jagmp said:


> sometimes it is better to cut your loses and run. i have seen several blue chip stocks disappearing altogather.


yes yes i heard of that but i have never invested in stocks i was talking about property i only invest in property
i have some property in texas i bought in late 2007 and they are offering me to buy it for about 10% to 15% less then i did but i dont want to is rented out and paid off so why should i bother but they try to scare me and tell me is going to be empty soon.i lowered the rents 10% to 15% to the businesses renting and they are now happy and i am also happy this is what i meant is that if you have the holding power to hold on to a property and you dont have too much financing but something small or no financing at all then no worried


----------



## dubaimat

iownyou said:


> hilltop real estate they had an office in daira but i havent seen him for a wile the guys name is nasser really nice guy
> i dont know if they have advised others of bad deals that is none of my business but as far as me and my friends we have gotten good and honest advise maybe because my best friend is the cousin of the owner :cheers:
> http://www.hilltopdubai.com/html/aboutus.php


seems he is on holidays the website is outdated to say the least, nice read though....


> Most notably however due to the rapid economic growth in recent years, there Is an already existent shortage In office space for businesses and housing supply for residents, Simply put, the economy is growing too fast far the construction of new homes and offices to catch up with it. This shortage is further enhanced by an estimated influx of 7.6 million tourists in 2005 alone (well over 8 million estimated for 2006). As a result, projects are often sold out well before the first brick is laid.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are looking to invest in real estate, Dubai offers you opportunities to either:
> 
> *
> 
> Buy your dream home: you will find prime and quality residential real estate in Dubai, at a price that is very competitive when compared to other leading international hubs of cultural and economic activity
> 
> *
> 
> Resell your property at a premium in the short term: Dubai's steady economic growth almost guarantees you a substantial appreciation in the property value
> 
> *
> 
> Establish a stable long-term Investment: Dubai’s secure political and economic environment and steady economic growth almost guarantees you a sizeable net yield, and if the 37% rental increase of the past year is any indication, even a fill recovery of your capital within a span of a few years
> 
> You can even speak with our sales executives to develop your own personalized combination of all of the above.


----------



## noir-dresses

Are you talking about Nasir, the Pakistani gentlemen realestate agent that works with his brother. He lived in the US aswell, if yes the name of there company now is Good Deal Dubai.


----------



## iownyou

noir-dresses said:


> Are you talking about Nasir, the Pakistani gentlemen realestate agent that works with his brother. He lived in the US aswell, if yes the name of there company now is Good Deal Dubai.


you know i think he is afghani no pakistani truthfully i dont know but as i said he gave me good advise where to buy. maybe they closed down now i dont know.


----------



## jagmp

dear iownyou.....if you don't mind would you let us know which solid projects you have invested in?if not projects in which communities you are holding your 45 floors.i mean that will help us all to identify our good and bad decesions.your knowledge would be appreciated.thanks in advance.


----------



## iownyou

noir-dresses said:


> Are you talking about Nasir, the Pakistani gentlemen realestate agent that works with his brother. He lived in the US aswell, if yes the name of there company now is Good Deal Dubai.


yes he works with his younger brother what is good deal dubai?


----------



## iownyou

jagmp said:


> dear iownyou.....if you don't mind would you let us know which solid projects you have invested in?if not projects which in communities you are holding your 45 floors.i mean that will help us all to identify our good and bad decesion.your knowledge would be appreciated.thanks in advance.


too much details are not good to share.
but to make things clear i bought only JLT and Business bay
i am not the smartest investor just becouse i hold alot of property. if i was so smart i should have sold last year at the peak and bought again this year but i didnt so listening to me is not always good


----------



## jagmp

^^
thanks.appreciate it.
roughly what was the average price/sft in each communities?


----------



## iownyou

jagmp said:


> ^^
> thanks.appreciate it.
> roughly what was the average price/sft in each communities?


745 in JLT AND 1050 BB


----------



## dubaimat

iownyou said:


> too much details are not good to share.
> but to make things clear i bought only JLT and Business bay
> i am not the smartest investor just becouse i hold alot of property. if i was so smart i should have sold last year at the peak and bought again this year but i didnt so listening to me is not always good


you make me smile again, from ameinfo:

Fortune Avenue at BB on sale

* United Arab Emirates: Wednesday, May 30 - 2007 at 14:36

The local Fortune Group has opened sales in Fortune Avenue which will go up in Dubai's Business Bay. The 19-storey commercial tower will offer over 300,000 sq ft of office space. Hilltop Real Estate will market the property in North America.

not much going on with the fortune avenue tower
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=471444

and prices where really to high already.


----------



## iownyou

Naz UK said:


> He means stop being 12.


ld:


----------



## Naz UK

He means stop being 12.


----------



## Imre

AltinD said:


> Interesting, I photoshop some of my pictures to give them that exact look ... none posted in SSC though.


me too :lol:

with my old camera

http://tinypic.com/m/68607c/4 (Software: Adobe )


and from my grandfather archivum

http://tinypic.com/m/6862ig/4 ( Software: Digital Photo )


----------



## iownyou

Free legal service boosts Dubai realty community
The free legal advice now means no one is prevented from pursuing their rights merely because of the possibility they might be priced out of the system.

By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter Published: 00:00 November 3, 2009 Reader comments (0) 
Dubai: The new free legal service to support people embroiled in real estate-related court cases has emerged as a fair way to protect the interests of Dubai's real estate community.

"The objective of this initiative is not merely to meet a need but to ensure fairness and justice is available to anyone who might have a concern involving property, no matter what the circumstances are," Mohammad Sultan Thani, assistant director general of the Land Department, told Gulf News.

The free legal advice now means no one is prevented from pursuing their rights merely because of the possibility they might be priced out of the system.

"The offer of free legal advice is another step in the right direction from Rera [Real Estate Regulatory Authority] as it looks to improve transparency in the Dubai market.

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/free-legal-service-boosts-dubai-realty-community-1.522538


----------



## iownyou

JLT area is a free zone, says DMCCA 


JLT area is a free zone, says DMCCA (EB FILE) 





By 

Staff Writer on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 

The Dubai Multi Commodities Centre Authority (DMCCA) yesterday released a statement which clarified Jumeirah Lake Towers as a free zone.

"With the completion of the Jumeirah Lakes Towers (JLT) community and the DMCC's buildings (Almas Tower, AU Tower, AG Tower and J&G), the DMCCA wishes to state that JLT is an integral part of the DMCC free zone and therefore enjoys absolute free zone status," the statement said. 

"The DMCC was established by a Royal Decree in 2002 in which DMCC's free zone status is clearly stated. Currently, 1,800 firms avail the free zone facilities at JLT.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1032009_c92263ca8c5a4bc6af2d253a23b2642c.aspx


----------



## gerald.d

Woah.

Did iownyou just quote Naz _before_ Naz made the post iownyou quoted from?
:nuts:


----------



## DXBQuantum

^^ Freaky!!


----------



## Wannaberich

gerald.d said:


> Woah.
> 
> Did iownyou just quote Naz _before_ Naz made the post iownyou quoted from?
> :nuts:


Its easy to guess what Naz is going to write beforehand cos most of what he posts is sarcastic crap.


----------



## Wannaberich

Hope I dont offend anyone by posting this good news.

Dubai house prices up 7% in Q3 - Colliers
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/572342-dubai-house-prices-up-7-in-q3---colliers


UAE property rebound spurred by rise in lending - Colliers
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/572357-uae-property-rebound-spurred-by-rise-in-lending---colliers


----------



## Jondubai

*Rera!*

SO in regard to CRW is everyone following the RERA payment plan? What happens if you don't/cant make payments as per the RERA payment plan? But still be able to pay in full for the place before or on the date of completion? Can they actually cancel your contract before the flat is ready just because you are following your contract and not RERA? I just want to know what complications can occur or is it just a way for DSC to scare all the property owners to pay up more now than later? :nuts:


----------



## moscowboy

Wannaberich said:


> Hope I dont offend anyone by posting this good news.
> 
> Dubai house prices up 7% in Q3 - Colliers
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/572342-dubai-house-prices-up-7-in-q3---colliers
> 
> 
> UAE property rebound spurred by rise in lending - Colliers
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/572357-uae-property-rebound-spurred-by-rise-in-lending---colliers


It looks like the property prices are going up in other countries too.
May be the recession is over.


----------



## DXBQuantum

good news is not allowed in this thread, remove immediately!!


----------



## paul66

Can we stick to the doom and gloom please....It's much more interesting


----------



## AppleMac

The thing with all these reports from the supposed analysts is that they all seem to be relying on different basic data.

In Arabian Business today we have one from Colliers saying that prices will be impacted by the amount of new units coming on to the market between now and end of 2011 - now this is fine but how many units are we talking about?

The analyst from Colliers says 34,000 - yesterday HC Securities & Investment said 60,000 units - whilst the same story admits that other analysts say 90,000 to 140,000!

Now the difference between 34,000 and 140,000 is massive - so who is right? 

Colliers

HC Securities & Investment


----------



## DXBQuantum

no one is right, they are all useless.


----------



## Imre

positive answer from the Dubai Municipality about the Housing Fee, it seems something happening now !

*"Please be informed that DM has noticed an increase in the areas in Dubai that claim that they are free zone areas and that they are exempt from housing fees.DM has raised this matter to the concerned authorities in The Government of Dubai and is currently in the process of discussing the matter to come up with a decree that will determine the free zone areas in Dubai and whether they will be charged with housing fees or not.Please be patient until you are informed about the decision that will be reached."*


----------



## Wannaberich

AppleMac said:


> The thing with all these reports from the supposed analysts is that they all seem to be relying on different basic data.
> 
> In Arabian Business today we have one from Colliers saying that prices will be impacted by the amount of new units coming on to the market between now and end of 2011 - now this is fine but how many units are we talking about?
> 
> The analyst from Colliers says 34,000 - yesterday HC Securities & Investment said 60,000 units - whilst the same story admits that other analysts say 90,000 to 140,000!
> 
> Now the difference between 34,000 and 140,000 is massive - so who is right?
> 
> Colliers
> 
> HC Securities & Investment


How can it be possible to give an accurate answer for the amount of units to be delivered.Its impossible.You would need to know the completion dates of hundreds of developments around Dubai.Even the developers dont know when their own projects will be handed over so how the hell can Colliers etc know.


----------



## Naz UK

Imre said:


> positive answer from the Dubai Municipality about the Housing Fee, it seems something happening now !
> 
> *"Please be informed that DM has noticed an increase in the areas in Dubai that claim that they are free zone areas and that they are exempt from housing fees.DM has raised this matter to the concerned authorities in The Government of Dubai and is currently in the process of discussing the matter to come up with a decree that will determine the free zone areas in Dubai and whether they will be charged with housing fees or not.Please be patient until you are informed about the decision that will be reached."*


Excellent retrospective governance there, again, from the UAE. :applause:


----------



## DXBQuantum

^^ its all a big joke, when you think about it. 

they haven't got a clue about anything...


----------



## Wannaberich

On behalf of the British immigration and tourist board

Carnage UK hits Brighton
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2711538/Carnage-UK-hits-Brighton.html


----------



## noir-dresses

Does it kind of remind you of waiter's, or bartender's ? They never make a mistake undercharging you, but always over charging hno:


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai Index is taking a beating, did another nose dive today

2075.46 

down (5.03%)


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> On behalf of the British immigration and tourist board
> 
> Carnage UK hits Brighton
> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2711538/Carnage-UK-hits-Brighton.html


Talking of the british...maybe they will have some spare equity to invest again soon? or is this the bull trap?

LONDON, Nov 3 (Reuters) - British house prices rose 1.2 percent in October, leaving the annual decline at its smallest in 1-1/2 years as a lack of supply and higher demand buoyed prices, mortgage lender Halifax said on Tuesday.

House prices were 1.5 percent down in October compared with a year ago, the smallest annual fall since March 2008. Halifax said it expected the annual price change to turn positive in the coming months.

In the three months to October compared with a year ago, prices were 4.7 percent lower -- the smallest fall on that measure since May 2008 -- leaving the average price of a home at 165,528 pounds ($269,500).

The Halifax data showed a stronger monthly increase than rival mortgage lender Nationwide, which said prices rose 0.4 percent last month. However, house prices on the Nationwide measure have now risen for six consecutive months compared to only four on Halifax's gauge. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinancialServices - Diversified/idUSL337607520091103


----------



## bizzybonita

Complete recovery of UAE property market likely in three years

With the property prices yet to hit the bottom, and the banks still being reluctant to lend, the total turnaround in the UAE real estate sector will not happen until the next two to three years, says a management consultant company.

According to Dr. Reinhold Leichtfuss, Senior Partner and Managing Director, Boston Consulting Group - Middle East, the property market in the UAE, along with other emerging markets will continue to be volatile, as it is difficult to predict exactly when or what sort of turnaround it will be for Dubai.

According to Leichtfuss, there has been a pick-up in rentals for residential flats/apartments during the last quarter, particularly in quality destinations, although there still exists the possibility of decline in prices.

The global downturn had affected the once-booming property sector of Dubai, bringing down the property prices to more than 50 percent from their peak levels in 2008.

Investors and developers are still pinning hopes on a global economic recovery to revive interest in the sector, but, the prices will continue to remain flat, if not going down further, as the supply will be further strengthened by the new projects that are likely to hit the market by end of this year and in 2010.

Leichtfuss agrees that there has been a slow increase in return of people into the market, as there is a huge supply to begin with. Rents have marginally increased in few areas, but with the new supplies coming in next year, it is to be wait and watched as to how it will be next year.

One major cause could be due to the fact that banks are still hesitant to resume lending, and for banks that have, the criteria have become more stringent. Financing continues to be expensive and unavailable for people who wish to purchase during the downturn.

According to Leichtfuss, the recovery of real estate sector could be accelerated by real estate funds that give investor access to the market, and benefit from the upside of investing in otherwise defaulting properties.


----------



## bizzybonita

Completed properties with access to basic amenities preferred


Asteco, the largest property services company in the UAE, has reported that apartment sales for completed projects in the prime Downtown Burj Dubai area have seen maximum increase of 8 percent on quarter-to-quarter basis.

In its third quarter report on Dubai property market, Asteco said that sales prices for apartments in Downtown have grown from Dh.1200 per sq ft during the second quarter, to Dh.1300 per sq ft in third quarter.

Across the whole of Dubai, sale prices for completed apartments and villas have increased only slightly with an average of 1 percent and 3 percent, compared to the 2nd quarter report. Rental charges have seen minimal change during the same period, the report said.

Asteco CEO, Elaine Jones said that both Downtown Burj Dubai and Jumeirah Beach Residence are fully established communities that are highly desirable, which is exactly what the market is seeking. A completed tower is no longer sufficient, if it does not form a part of integrated community with sufficient convenient access to hospitals, schools, transport, leisure and entertainment amenities. As for villa communities, The Springs and Arabian Ranches are doing well.

The property market analysis by Asteco has revealed that demand is high mainly for smaller units such as studios, single bedroom apartments, double bedroom villas or townhouses. Overall, however, apartment and villa rental rates have seen minimal changes.

At present, average rental rates for studio apartments are Dh.45,000, while that for single, double and triple bedrooms are Dh.76,000, Dh.103,000 and Dh.139,000 respectively. Villas and townhouses are available for an average of Dh.117,500 for double bedroom, Dh.180,500 for triple bedroom and Dh.227,500 for four bedrooms and Dh.278,500 for five bedroom units.

According to Asteco, majority of inquiries are for Jumeirah and Umm Suqeim where tenants are seeking 3 bedroom units in the range Dh.150,000 and Dh.180,000.


----------



## noir-dresses

where's that moscowboy pain in the ass who keep's bothering us here with his view's, could this be him ???????? :nuts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stDWNam7RtE


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai property prices rebound by 9% after bottoming out 

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1032009_8e11931cbb6a488fb5f76e9cec7491fe.aspx


----------



## dubaimarina2008

..


----------



## amplesou

Jondubai said:


> SO in regard to CRW is everyone following the RERA payment plan? YES! WHY !BECAUSE ITS BETTER !What happens if you don't/cant make payments as per the RERA payment plan? THEN YOU ARE IN DEFAULT AND THEY WILL START CANCELLATION NOTICE ON YOU AND THAT MEANS YOU WILL LOSE OUT BIG TIME I.E. 30 PERCENT OF MONEYS PAID! But still be able to pay in full for the place before or on the date of completion?
> YOU HAVE TO PAY AS PER THE PAYMENT CONTRACT WHICH IS A REPLACEMENT RERA PAYMENT PLAN OR PAYING IN FULL NOW OR PAY MORE THAN IS REQUIRED AT THIS POINT THEREFORE REDUCING YOUR PAYMENTS IN ADVANCE !:nuts:Can they actually cancel your contract before the flat is ready just because you are following your contract and not RERA? YOU ARE FOLLOWING THE LATEST PAYMENT CONTRACT RERA OR NOT ! I THINK WE ARE ON OUR 4 TH CHANGED PAYMENT SCHEDULE CONTRACT :nuts: SINCE 2006 ! THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN BETTER THAN THE PREVIOUS ONES AS WELL!  I just want to know what complications can occur or is it just a way for DSC to scare all the property owners to pay up more now than later? THE APARTMENTS ARE GOING TO BE READY END OF MAY GET FOCUSED AND PAY YOUR PAYMENTS AND BE HAPPY AS A LOT OF PEOPLE ON HERE ARE VERY UNHAPPY THAT THERE INVESTMENT MAY NOT HAPPEN FOR SOME TIME OR NOT AT ALLL? A :nuts:


sp


----------



## iownyou

gerald.d said:


> Woah.
> 
> Did iownyou just quote Naz _before_ Naz made the post iownyou quoted from?
> :nuts:


i can read peoples mind :lol:


----------



## AltinD

iownyou said:


> JLT area is a free zone, says DMCCA
> 
> 
> JLT area is a free zone, says DMCCA (EB FILE)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By
> 
> Staff Writer on Tuesday, November 03, 2009
> 
> The Dubai Multi Commodities Centre Authority (DMCCA) yesterday released a statement which clarified Jumeirah Lake Towers as a free zone.
> 
> "With the completion of the Jumeirah Lakes Towers (JLT) community and the DMCC's buildings (Almas Tower, AU Tower, AG Tower and J&G), the DMCCA wishes to state that JLT is an integral part of the DMCC free zone and therefore enjoys absolute free zone status," the statement said.
> 
> "The DMCC was established by a Royal Decree in 2002 in which DMCC's free zone status is clearly stated. Currently, 1,800 firms avail the free zone facilities at JLT.
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1032009_c92263ca8c5a4bc6af2d253a23b2642c.aspx


The question is not about the commercial properties but residential ones, and in that press release by DMCCA there is no mention ... at all ... of residential towers, which interests the peoples here.


----------



## iownyou

Dubai home prices up for the first time since plunge

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...s-up-for-the-first-time-since-plunge-1.522713


----------



## DXBQuantum

there's a building for sale in Residences, Downtown Burj Dubai for 116,000,000 AED but its residential... but has hotel permission..


----------



## Imre

this is good news:

*Same day clearance of cheques from November 14*

The Central Bank confirms banks will be able to clear cheques within the same day.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1042009_c08f2be56fc5423ab63c94f9a8d114d2.aspx


----------



## iownyou

DXBQuantum said:


> there's a building for sale in Residences, Downtown Burj Dubai for 116,000,000 AED but its residential... but has hotel permission..


isent that very cheap price?


----------



## DXBQuantum

sorry its 161,000,000. owner bought at 150,000,000 !


----------



## iownyou

DXBQuantum said:


> sorry its 161,000,000. owner bought at 150,000,000 !


not that i am interested as i said before but just out of quriosity what is the total built up area or sqft?
there is no point in buying whole residential building because you cant lease it to one big company as in office you can lease it to a bank or other major financial institutions but i think we are talking too much ahead of our self and such thing would most likely be unlikely very difficult and major project needs alot of money at hand and time for it to happen need to consult with firms who are looking to move to dubai and are looking for large spacess to lease and so on very very large project that can be handled only with good connections


----------



## DXBQuantum

saleable area 181677 sq ft


----------



## 234sale

DXBQuantum said:


> there's a building for sale in Residences, Downtown Burj Dubai for 116,000,000 AED but its residential... but has hotel permission..


That buildings been for sale since 2004,

Flipped and swapped many times it seems.

886AED sqft is ok, I suppose.


----------



## DXBQuantum

^^ owner was going to make it into Hotel - Ramada i think there was a little bit of advertising outside..


----------



## iced

Dubai_Steve said:


> Talking of the british...maybe they will have some spare equity to invest again soon? or is this the bull trap?
> 
> LONDON, Nov 3 (Reuters) - British house prices rose 1.2 percent in October, leaving the annual decline at its smallest in 1-1/2 years as a lack of supply and higher demand buoyed prices, mortgage lender Halifax said on Tuesday.
> 
> House prices were 1.5 percent down in October compared with a year ago, the smallest annual fall since March 2008. Halifax said it expected the annual price change to turn positive in the coming months.
> 
> In the three months to October compared with a year ago, prices were 4.7 percent lower -- the smallest fall on that measure since May 2008 -- leaving the average price of a home at 165,528 pounds ($269,500).
> 
> The Halifax data showed a stronger monthly increase than rival mortgage lender Nationwide, which said prices rose 0.4 percent last month. However, house prices on the Nationwide measure have now risen for six consecutive months compared to only four on Halifax's gauge.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinancialServices - Diversified/idUSL337607520091103


Its a bull trap until the QE stops and then prices will stop being inflated. 

In dubai prices are beginning to stabilise. It is pretty hard to get solid data about selling prices as opposed to asking prices. Money supply is still contracting although it is not dramatic and banks are not lending overall. If the dubai govt continues to pumps money building the infrastructure then that should help to stablise the effects of new supply coming on. Net effect over the next few months will be either a small rise or a small fall as in 10% moves. I expect it to continue to fall as rents are coming down as well.

Better to watch than participate until the smoke clears


----------



## DXBQuantum

iced said:


> Better to watch than participate until the smoke clears



you stand to make more money when you participate in uncertain times than watch!

''Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful''


----------



## Imre

DXBQuantum said:


> ^^ owner was going to make it into Hotel - Ramada i think there was a little bit of advertising outside..


yes,few months ago I saw a big board there " Ramada Downtown Burj Dubai" OPENING SOON but still nothing.


----------



## rexdmx

DXBQuantum said:


> you stand to make more money when you participate in uncertain times than watch!
> 
> ''Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful''


why does everyone quotes buffet in the bad times but no one does in the boom eh?? :lol:


----------



## moscowboy

iownyou said:


> thats why your not the ceo and i am :lol: nothing personal
> because i would use the money saved and invest it to expand the business:lol:


I am not sure, if this is true, but I heard that Walmart and Home Depot, the largest chains in USA, buy land and build thier own shops, whenever possible, instead of leasing from someone else. Since you are in America, you should know. Is this true?


----------



## True Blue

iownyou said:


> not that i am interested as i said before but just out of quriosity what is the total built up area or sqft?
> there is no point in buying whole residential building because you cant lease it to one big company as in office you can lease it to a bank or other major financial institutions but i think we are talking too much ahead of our self and such thing would most likely be unlikely very difficult and major project needs alot of money at hand and time for it to happen need to consult with firms who are looking to move to dubai and are looking for large spacess to lease and so on very very large project that can be handled only with good connections


Sorry, but if you want to convince people that you are the CEO or a seasoned investor, it would help you greatly if you could improve your written English. Here are some tips;

Sentences start with capital letters and end with full stops. If you change the subject, take a new paragraph and don't forget the capital letter at the start.

Run your script through a spell checker now and then and try to learn the corrections that are applied, just guessing the word from phonetics is not enough.

You can shorten words to allow the text to flow but remember to include the apostrophe where you have dropped the letter. Here are some frequently used examples; 

there is => there's. 
it is => it's. 
can not => can't
You are => you’re
You will => you'll

All proper nouns have capital letters, for example Dubai, Peter, South. The same applies to some pro nouns mainly I.

Practice these to start with and your skills will slowly develop. Once you graduate from college, you'll be able to thank this forum.

Just one apartment will be enough for me


----------



## jagmp

^^:applause:


----------



## noir-dresses

Poser:lurker:


----------



## DXBQuantum

^^ haha


----------



## wittyman

moscowboy said:


> I am not sure, if this is true, but I heard that Walmart and Home Depot, the largest chains in USA, buy land and build thier own shops, when ever possible, instead of leasing from someone else. Since you are in America, you should know. Is this true?


Retail and fast food chains etc. may choose to buy the properties they use their oprations rather than renting them because they frequently need substantial space and location of the property is very important for them. One point is having relieved of dealing with a multitude of landlords and avoiding to lose premium locations because of dispute. Another, but a much more imporant point is to gain from holding a portfolio of premium property in addition to their usual line of business. This way they may substantially improve both net asset value and their business bottomline.

However, the situation of companies in other sectors is different. Most companies would rather rent than buy any given building as that would be more flexible, i.e. easier to move to somewhere else when needed etc. Also, they would not want to tie up capital to a non-core asset like property.

The following anecdote about Ray Croc founder of McDOnald's humberger chain reveals it all :

Ray Croc of the multinational mega corporation McDonald’s once asked a group of business students what business they thought he was in.

“Why that’s easy Mr. Croc,” one of them replied. “Everyone knows you’re in the hamburger business.”

“I thought you would say that,” he said, “But you are wrong. I’m in the real estate business.”


----------



## dubaimat

iownyou said:


> haha but i dont have any apparments only the one in international city and is empty so i dont know if thats any good sorry but love to have maybe some coffee with you


Why are you holding a ready property that doesn't generate any income?


----------



## iownyou

moscowboy said:


> 25% of the world's cranes are idle in Dubai.
> Do you think the construction boom in Dubai is over?


ofcourse is never or not any time soon going to be as it used to be now the market is going to go back to fondamentals yield on rent and capital appriciation. there is going to be alot of project been developed because is a new country and it needs alot of infrastructior etc. but not so many buildings launched anymore.


----------



## iownyou

Prices rise up to 50% in Arabian Ranches 


There are more than 4,000 residential units in Arabian Ranches. (SUPPLIED) 





By 

Anjana Kumar on Thursday, November 05, 2009 

Secondary market prices of villas and townhouses in Arabian Ranches have seen an increase of around 33 per cent to 50 per cent in this year to date, said realtors.

Vineet Kumar, Head of Sales – Dubai, Asteco Property Management, said: "Beginning of this year, two- and three-bedroom villas in Arabian Ranches were sold for Dh650 to Dh750 per sq ft but currently prices vary between Dh900 per sq ft and Dh1,250 per sq ft depending on the size and location of the plot."


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1052009_ae4704b0fc294f78b8ff4e4896ee5961.aspx


----------



## jagmp

ofcourse is never or not any time soon going to be as it used to be now the market is going to go back to fondamentals yield on rent and capital appriciation.

what is yield on rent?:dunno:


----------



## sandstone

Anyone able to recommend a good snagging company?


----------



## iownyou

jagmp said:


> ofcourse is never or not any time soon going to be as it used to be now the market is going to go back to fondamentals yield on rent and capital appriciation.
> 
> what is yield on rent?:dunno:


hno:i cant tell you because i havent rented out any of my properties because most are still u/c or about to be handed over. 
but from what i understand from people and this forum it should be about 9 to 10 percent and that is very good if you think about it is much better then mature markets in general and if you think about it is good because there is no tax and if your starting at 10 percent now and hold on to your property in the next 10 years then it will easly be 15 to 20 percent but for me now is zerohno:


----------



## TMZ

Hi everyone I had a couple of questions I hope you guys can answer regarding property exchange,

currently I have invested in a really terrible company and have paid 40% for a project that is still not started to this date, 2 years after initial buy, now I have another developer offering me another property (property exchange). What they are saying is for example I have paid 300,000 AED for the current property, they will take that ammount and put it towards the ammount of property I am willing to exchange with them. So this means 300,000 AED is paid and subtracted from 900,000AED, initialy what this means is they will take my current property and exchange it with one that they are building , they offer guranteed completion date, very flexiable payment plan and are a very well known company (sorry I can not give any developer names).

Now my questions is what is my liability with current company and new company , will I be sued, would I have to sue? is this legal or not? 

let me know what you guys think please.


----------



## iownyou

TMZ said:


> Hi everyone I had a couple of questions I hope you guys can answer regarding property exchange,
> 
> currently I have invested in a really terrible company and have paid 40% for a project that is still not started to this date, 2 years after initial buy, now I have another developer offering me another property (property exchange). What they are saying is for example I have paid 300,000 AED for the current property, they will take that ammount and put it towards the ammount of property I am willing to exchange with them. So this means 300,000 AED is paid and subtracted from 900,000AED, initialy what this means is they will take my current property and exchange it with one that they are building , they offer guranteed completion date, very flexiable payment plan and are a very well known company (sorry I can not give any developer names).
> 
> Now my questions is what is my liability with current company and new company , will I be sued, would I have to sue? is this legal or not?
> 
> let me know what you guys think please.


unless i miss understood is too good to be true why would one company give you credit for a property with a different company? are they the same developer different project or different developer different project? how can a different developer take the 300,000 from the other developer?
this is mind boggling


----------



## jagmp

iownyou my question was what is meant by *yield on rent*.:bash:


----------



## AppleMac

moscowboy said:


> 25% of the world's cranes are idle in Dubai.
> Do you think the construction boom in Dubai is over?


The construction boom is over - but then Dubai never had 25% of the worlds cranes..

WSJ


----------



## iownyou

jagmp said:


> iownyou my question was what is meant by *yield on rent*.:bash:


yiled -In finance, the term yield describes the amount in cash that returns to the owners of a security. Normally it does not include the price variations, at the difference of the total return. Yield applies to various stated rates of return on stocks (common and preferred, and convertible), fixed income instruments (bonds, notes, bills, strips, zero coupon), and some other investment type insurance products (e.g. annuities).

The term is used in different situations to mean different things. It can be calculated as a ratio or as an internal rate of return (IRR). It may be used to state the owner's total return, or just a portion of income, or exceed the income.


----------



## iownyou

DubaiInformationSite said:


> i would not touch property in dubai with a 10 yard stick. fundamentals are too weak and there are some severe flaws in the system. until those get fixed, real estate is going nowhere but down.
> 
> - - - - - -
> Learn all about Dubai from a fresh, practical and first hand perspective at the Dubai City Info Site: http://www.dubai-information-site.com


your right i agree but one thing is that the higher the risk the higher the return on your investment buy some property in downtown new york and return is 4 or 5 percent and same goes for london can you tell me in what major city you can buy property and expect more then 5 percent yiled?
i dont know of any besides emergin markets such as dubai


----------



## Wannaberich

iownyou said:


> Prices rise up to 50% in Arabian Ranches


Find that hard to believe but if true maybe the rest of Dubai properties are to follow with a mini boom?


----------



## jagmp

iownyou said:


> yiled -In finance, the term yield describes the amount in cash that returns to the owners of a security. Normally it does not include the price variations, at the difference of the total return. Yield applies to various stated rates of return on stocks (common and preferred, and convertible), fixed income instruments (bonds, notes, bills, strips, zero coupon), and some other investment type insurance products (e.g. annuities).
> 
> The term is used in different situations to mean different things. It can be calculated as a ratio or as an internal rate of return (IRR). It may be used to state the owner's total return, or just a portion of income, or exceed the income.


here you go.now it makes sense.:cheers:


----------



## shagdash

iownyou said:


> Prices rise up to 50% in Arabian Ranches
> 
> 
> There are more than 4,000 residential units in Arabian Ranches. (SUPPLIED)
> 
> By
> 
> Anjana Kumar on Thursday, November 05, 2009
> 
> Secondary market prices of villas and townhouses in Arabian Ranches have seen an increase of around 33 per cent to 50 per cent in this year to date, said realtors.
> 
> Vineet Kumar, Head of Sales – Dubai, Asteco Property Management, said: "Beginning of this year, two- and three-bedroom villas in Arabian Ranches were sold for Dh650 to Dh750 per sq ft but currently prices vary between Dh900 per sq ft and Dh1,250 per sq ft depending on the size and location of the plot."
> 
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1052009_ae4704b0fc294f78b8ff4e4896ee5961.aspx


Ad in todays gulf news:

Arabian Ranches, Al Reem 1, Type 3M
AED 1,995,000 
Arabian Ranches, Al Reem 1, Type 3M, BUA 2,456 sq.ft., 3 bedrooms + study, Backing directly onto the park, Secluded landscaped garden, Within walking distance of the swimming. DHS 812/- sq.ft. AED 1,995,000/-


----------



## True Blue

mackie1964 said:


> Yes but can you write in Gaelic?
> 
> Any way, can I ask for your advice?
> 
> How many layers do I need as foundation to construct my 45 floor tower in my new free zone? Imre promised to buy me a new Lego set :cheers:


Taigh-osda ,an oifis? Tha e boidheach? An reic thu so iownyou?


----------



## True Blue

Anyone know what happened to real estate agent Alineah.com? Have they gone bust or just moved?


----------



## paul66

Was Alineah an agent? I thought they were just a portal.


----------



## Jeroen45

iownyou said:


> hno:i cant tell you because i havent rented out any of my properties because most are still u/c or about to be handed over.
> but from what i understand from people and this forum it should be about 9 to 10 percent and that is very good if you think about it is much better then mature markets in general and if you think about it is good because there is no tax and if your starting at 10 percent now and hold on to your property in the next 10 years then it will easly be 15 to 20 percent but for me now is zerohno:


The 10% mentioned must be gross income with service charges and maintenance still to subtract from I guess? 
What if inflation will be around 6/7% for the coming 10 years? (I mean real inflation, not the bogus official statistics they produce in the US, I don 't know how UAE calculate their numbers). Central banks are really doing all they can to make such a thing to happen with all their easy money.
You will have won nothing if things work out in this scenario combined with a lousy capital appreciation. These are two preassumptions but on what base will the existing homes and the upcoming big supply rise in value if speculation is gone? (vicious circle, it's a lousy investment so no speculators, no speculators, no rising prices). I'm thinking short term now, for the long term Dubai is the place to be.
If the above case of inflation materializes you guys are all in for a loonnggg time waiting for (real) profit. Currently gold is a better option if you ask me allthough there will be a time when selling gold for a real estate investment in Dubai will be the right thing to do, it's just not for the coming few years I think.
The only thing that can save investors on the short time is a big influx of new residents. On the long term, they're coming


----------



## gerald.d

shagdash said:


> Ad in todays gulf news:
> 
> Arabian Ranches, Al Reem 1, Type 3M
> AED 1,995,000
> Arabian Ranches, Al Reem 1, Type 3M, BUA 2,456 sq.ft., 3 bedrooms + study, Backing directly onto the park, Secluded landscaped garden, Within walking distance of the swimming. DHS 812/- sq.ft. AED 1,995,000/-


Too late. I've just bought that one an hour ago.

The seller hadn't see the article you quoted from.

I've now sold it to someone who read that article for 1250/sq ft!


----------



## williamX

paul66 said:


> Was Alineah an agent? I thought they were just a portal.


Yes Alineah is Agent, also they has affiliated RE company Murano Dubai. Alineah and Murano had huge property listings.
They located in Bur Dubai in Karama. 2 years ago i had deals thru them (buying) their agents was very professional. 
Now i think most of RE companies go bust and Alineah one of them


----------



## Wannaberich

Difference between the UK and Dubai is that Dubai can make some obvious changes which would greatly improve its situation.Bringing in long term residents visas plus if the banks gave mortgages out far more freely and slashed interest rates,all this would probably create a mini boom.Not just in terms of property prices rising but also would bring in alot businessmen/new businesses etc and new residents which is what Dubai badly needs.
On top of this a few more tourist attractions,theme parks etc would help the situation.

The UK goverment on the other hand has done all the obvious to try and bring the country out of the recession but so far it seems not to have worked.


----------



## True Blue

iownyou said:


> one of my properties is going to be handed over next month
> i need to know what is the process and what are the fees does anyone know?





iownyou said:


> there is no final payment i have paid in full long long time ago if you go back and read my post you will see.
> 
> i plan on renting them.
> 
> i have to pay the whole year of service charge upfront?
> do i have to register with rera?
> i am sure the developer will tell me what to do right? i dont have much time to figure these things out i have things to do and i will only be in dubai for about 1 week at most is that enough time to take care of it all>?
> do i need to do anything else to rent them out? i dont know if there is something i am missing





iownyou said:


> does anyone know how much is the service charge?
> can the service charge be build to the renters?
> what if somone doesent pay for the service charge what can happen?


You must have very rich parents, or had, or you won the biggest lottery prize. For someone who knows so little you have managed a lot.

When you have only one or two properties then you can get bye by asking a friend but when you have as much as you claim to have, then you should pay and get professional advice. The agent who handled your purchase should be on hand to help and advise, give them a call. They would have been paid at least 1% of the purchase price as commission. 1% of 30 floors is plenty of money, make them work for it.


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8303930.stm
> 
> Depends if all the figures are real or not...
> 
> Do you really trust a Labour goverment, If so we are out of recession...


Nope -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8322657.stm



> The UK economy unexpectedly contracted by 0.4% between July and September, according to official figures, meaning the country is still in recession.
> The figures are only a first estimate so could still be revised up or down at a later date.
> Chancellor Alistair Darling said he had never expected to see growth before the end of 2009, but his Conservative counterpart George Osborne described the figures as "deeply, deeply disappointing".


----------



## jagmp

No one in his right senses would like to bash his own country.Doesn't mean the harsh facts and realities should be ignored.Dubai and UK should not be compared with the same yard stick. Both have different fundamentals they rely on.

UK is yet not out of recession while Germany France US and even Japan are out.Even if it comes out of recession expected to be by end of the year the recovery path is long and painful.

Unemployment is still rising.There are huge spending cuts on public services.Everyday i hear on tv about cuts in education which is perhapes worst hit.I won't be surprised if we will find radiators are not heated in the schools in winter at worst.A and E are closing at fastest rate.Many projects on underground network are shelved.Soon we will have deteriorating yet expensive transport network.

Next govt have no choice but to raise the taxes to try to reduce the fiscal deficit.We have huge burden of public debt.The maturity dates of gilts are in 2030s and 40s.So our grandchildren will be paying the Debt created by bankers and Brown.QE doesn't seem to stop.Although official datas suggest othewise we all know inflation is rising.Food cost utilitiey bills and petrol price are ever rising. 

On housing side picture is not as rosy as it seems.First time buyers are struggling more than ever before.Mortgages are becoming more difficult to secure.If FSA brings new regulations which will look at your spending and affordability rather than multiple of income housing market will face another setback.

We all wish reality would be different which would save us hardship and inferior living standard.there is no enjoyment in crticising one's own country.


----------



## True Blue

No price uplift seen on homes near metro - Landmark

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=45680775&postcount=3061


----------



## Wannaberich

jagmp said:


> UK is yet not out of recession while Germany France US and even Japan are out.Even if it comes out of recession expected to be by end of the year the recovery path is long and painful.
> 
> Unemployment is still rising.There are huge spending cuts on public services.Everyday i hear on tv about cuts in education which is perhapes worst hit.I won't be surprised if we will find radiators are not heated in the schools in winter at worst.A and E are closing at fastest rate.Many projects on underground network are shelved.Soon we will have deteriorating yet expensive transport network.
> 
> Next govt have no choice but to raise the taxes to try to reduce the fiscal deficit.We have huge burden of public debt.The maturity dates of gilts are in 2030s and 40s.So our grandchildren will be paying the Debt created by bankers and Brown.QE doesn't seem to stop.Although official datas suggest othewise we all know inflation is rising.Food cost utilitiey bills and petrol price are ever rising.
> 
> On housing side picture is not as rosy as it seems.First time buyers are struggling more than ever before.Mortgages are becoming more difficult to secure.If FSA brings new regulations which will look at your spending and affordability rather than multiple of income housing market will face another setback.


For the millions trying to legally/illegally move to the UK,errr think again.


----------



## Wannaberich

True Blue said:


> No price uplift seen on homes near metro - Landmark


I cant see that being the case when all the red line stations are open but especially when the whole of the metro is complete.


----------



## jagmp

Wannaberich said:


> For the millions trying to legally/illegally move to the UK,errr think again.


Yes You are absolutely right.From which parts of the world they are trying to move.Obviously most deprived parts of the world.Afghanistan Pakistan Estern Europe. They want to come here to exploit welfare system.If from India they are from very poor states and interior regions.Indians living in UK are over 80% migrated from Africa during exodus.I have come across very far and few who are from big metros.

Anyway comparision here is between prosperity of UK few yeas ago and now.not with any other country.


----------



## Wannaberich

jagmp said:


> Yes You are absolutely right.From which parts of the world they are trying to move.Obviously most deprived parts of the world.Afghanistan Pakistan Estern Europe. They want to come here to exploit welfare system.If from India they are from very poor states and interior regions.Indians living in UK are over 80% migrated from Africa during exodus.I have come across very far and few who are from big metros.
> 
> Anyway comparision here is between prosperity of UK few yeas ago and now.not with any other country.


The good news is that many of those who were are at least willing to work are now having to return home as of course the work has dried up.Eastern european construction workers for example were working for much less than their british counterparts which of course caused alot of resentment as this drove labour prices down.Some of these workers typically lived 5/6-10 in the same house to keep living costs down so that they could send more money back home.They spent little of their money in the UK.Now that they have basically used us many are now thankfully returning home as the work has dried up(apart from the thousands building the Olympic facilities!)
The recession wont of course deter those moving to the UK who dont want to work instead to
take advantage of our pathetic and over the top benefit system.


----------



## True Blue

Wannaberich said:


> I cant see that being the case when all the red line stations are open but especially when the whole of the metro is complete.


One of the biggest increases has been in Arabian Ranches which is no where near a metro station.

All the service buses and metro feeder buses gather outside the Jewels in the marina but it is more of a pain in the arse than a convenience. Being nearby is fine but on your doorstep is not. I bet the owners of Marina Residence and Marina Diamond love those escalator structures right opposite there balconies.


----------



## Wannaberich

True Blue said:


> One of the biggest increases has been in Arabian Ranches which is no where near a metro station.


Obviously prices can go up in certain areas for other reasons than the metro.
Arabian Ranches along with Dubai Marina are probably the two best areas of Dubai (in my opinion).


----------



## Wannaberich

UK property prices expected to fall in 2010 but strong growth from 2011 predicted by analysts

http://www.propertycommunity.com/property-in-the-uk/429-uk-prices-fall-2010-strong-growth-2011.html


----------



## Cayman

True Blue said:


> One of the biggest increases has been in Arabian Ranches which is no where near a metro station.
> 
> All the service buses and metro feeder buses gather outside the Jewels in the marina but it is more of a pain in the arse than a convenience. Being nearby is fine but on your doorstep is not. I bet the owners of Marina Residence and Marina Diamond love those escalator structures right opposite there balconies.


Metro in its current form is of very little use (or useless at worst).

I say this with authority because I have been keeping track of the passenger density of the trains (going bothway) from 6PM onwards everyday.

I can see inside the trains after dark from my window / balcony and they are mostly (about 60%-75%) empty.

I cannot comment about the day time as I cannot see inside the trains due to heavy tint in the train windows.

May be it is different during absolute peak hours.


----------



## Cayman

Ironically, they are much fuller during the weekends (especially Friday evenings), perhaps because of the joy riders.


----------



## AltinD

^^ People going to MOE


----------



## Imre

What about those busses front of the Ibn Battuta Station, I have never seen any passengers , they are parking there just for fun?


----------



## Cayman

^^
Good question!

I always wondered myself.


----------



## True Blue

I think there is no more room at The Jewels so they just park at Ibn Battuta


----------



## AltinD

Imre said:


> What about those busses front of the Ibn Battuta Station, I have never seen any passengers , they are parking there just for fun?


One of those lines (F50) serves Jebel Ali Free Zone. I see the buses often and they're always almost empty, which would make sense cause why would people travel between these particular two locations?


----------



## bizzybonita

Imre said:


> What about those busses front of the Ibn Battuta Station, I have never seen any passengers , they are parking there just for fun?


you know what ! 

i saw 3-4 zombies at mid night last yesterday,coming out from Grand cinema Ibn Battuta hurry up to buses station " were watching Distract 9 Movie " :lol:


----------



## Imre

*Japanese contractors owed billions by Dubai firms*


Japanese builders are owed billions of dollars on projects that include the Dubai Metro and Palm Island, according to a top diplomat and leading contractors from the country,
Japanese builders have played a pivotal role in Dubai’s construction boom, spearheading work on the Dh28 billion (US$7.6bn) Metro and helping to build Nakheel’s palm-shaped islands off the emirate’s coast.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI), a part of the giant Mitsubishi Group, and Taisei Corporation, one of Japan’s largest contractors, are among those firms affected by non-payment on contracts that date back years in some cases.
MHI led a consortium of five contractors, including four Japanese companies, that was awarded a Dh12.45bn contract in May 2005 to plan and develop the Metro’s Red Line. The following year, the same Mitsubishi-led consortium won a Dh4.08bn contract to build the Green Line. Other members of the consortium were Mitsubishi Corporation, Obayashi Corporation and Kajima Corporation of Japan, and Yapi Merkezi of Turkey. 
Ten of the 29 stations on the project’s Red Line opened in September, with the Green Line expected to be operational next year.

“MHI executed the construction of the Dubai Metro and some other contracts and we are still awaiting payment,” said Koji Okamoto, the general manager of the Middle East office of MHI in Dubai. The company has contracts in the Middle East valued at $150bn.

Taisei is believed to be owed several billion dollars across a number of projects in Dubai and elsewhere outside the UAE.

The company is still awaiting payment from the Roads and Transport Authority (RTA) for completed projects including Doha Road near the Burj Dubai and the Arabian Ranches interchange. It is owed funds from Nakheel for the Gateway Towers and vehicular tunnel projects on Palm Jumeirah, in addition to several infrastructure schemes on Palm Jebel Ali and Almas Tower at Jumeirah Lake Towers.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091107/BUSINESS/711079990/0/yourview


----------



## Cayman

^^
Which one did you move to?

Did you get a fair deal?


----------



## iownyou

Recovery of off-plan market to pick up steam from 2011 


Housing quality, affordability and fulfilment of commitments by developers are key to the off-plan market picking up, says experts. (EB FILE) 





By 

Anjana Kumar on Sunday, November 08, 2009 

A possible recovery of the off-plan market in Dubai may begin only from 2011, provided developers now build quality products and fulfil their commitments, real estate executives said.

Sana Kapadia, Vice- President, Equity Research at EFG-Hermes, said: "The recovery of the off-plan market in the UAE will happen only from early 2011. Any recovery before that is unlikely. Pricing plans would need to be tied to construction milestones as that will hold the faith of buyers in the real estate market. 

"Investors are holding back payments because construction is not commencing and developers cannot construct because investors are not paying. Once this situation changes, we can expect a recovery in the off-plan market."


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1082009_992b57f204c14dbab2bd5b46d69f3381.aspx


----------



## Naz UK

Imre said:


> *Japanese contractors owed billions by Dubai firms*
> 
> 
> Japanese builders are owed billions of dollars on projects that include the Dubai Metro and Palm Island, according to a top diplomat and leading contractors from the country,
> Japanese builders have played a pivotal role in Dubai’s construction boom, spearheading work on the Dh28 billion (US$7.6bn) Metro and helping to build Nakheel’s palm-shaped islands off the emirate’s coast.
> 
> Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI), a part of the giant Mitsubishi Group, and Taisei Corporation, one of Japan’s largest contractors, are among those firms affected by non-payment on contracts that date back years in some cases.
> MHI led a consortium of five contractors, including four Japanese companies, that was awarded a Dh12.45bn contract in May 2005 to plan and develop the Metro’s Red Line. The following year, the same Mitsubishi-led consortium won a Dh4.08bn contract to build the Green Line. Other members of the consortium were Mitsubishi Corporation, Obayashi Corporation and Kajima Corporation of Japan, and Yapi Merkezi of Turkey.
> Ten of the 29 stations on the project’s Red Line opened in September, with the Green Line expected to be operational next year.
> 
> “MHI executed the construction of the Dubai Metro and some other contracts and we are still awaiting payment,” said Koji Okamoto, the general manager of the Middle East office of MHI in Dubai. The company has contracts in the Middle East valued at $150bn.
> 
> Taisei is believed to be owed several billion dollars across a number of projects in Dubai and elsewhere outside the UAE.
> 
> The company is still awaiting payment from the Roads and Transport Authority (RTA) for completed projects including Doha Road near the Burj Dubai and the Arabian Ranches interchange. It is owed funds from Nakheel for the Gateway Towers and vehicular tunnel projects on Palm Jumeirah, in addition to several infrastructure schemes on Palm Jebel Ali and Almas Tower at Jumeirah Lake Towers.
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091107/BUSINESS/711079990/0/yourview


Nice one. Looks like Dubai government will have to, by its own rules, arrest itself and throw itself in jail until the debt is settled. I hope Sheikh Mohammed's cell is comfortable. I hope his name is included in the New Year's pardons list.


----------



## Mistermark

iownyou said:


> Recovery of off-plan market to pick up steam from 2011
> 
> 
> Housing quality, affordability and fulfilment of commitments by developers are key to the off-plan market picking up, says experts. (EB FILE)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By
> 
> Anjana Kumar on Sunday, November 08, 2009
> 
> A possible recovery of the off-plan market in Dubai may begin only from 2011, provided developers now build quality products and fulfil their commitments, real estate executives said.
> 
> Sana Kapadia, Vice- President, Equity Research at EFG-Hermes, said: "The recovery of the off-plan market in the UAE will happen only from early 2011. Any recovery before that is unlikely. Pricing plans would need to be tied to construction milestones as that will hold the faith of buyers in the real estate market.
> 
> "Investors are holding back payments because construction is not commencing and developers cannot construct because investors are not paying. Once this situation changes, we can expect a recovery in the off-plan market."
> 
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1082009_992b57f204c14dbab2bd5b46d69f3381.aspx


I don't think there's a cat's chance in hell of the Dubai off-plan property market recovering by 2011. Even if there was extreme undersupply, coupled with staged payments being tied to construction progress, buyers have learnt the hard way that there's no value in an incomplete project, developments can be put on hold at any stage and standards of construction vary widely.

IMHO off-plan in Dubai will take at least a generation to recover, if it ever does. Instead, some developers who complete projects successfully and bank worthwhile profits from doing so will buy up vacant plots and construct developments from their own resources, selling completed units to investors and owner-occupiers. Obviously the number of developers with enough cash to do this will be limited, which means the level of additional supply, over and above what's already delivered or under construction, may be constrained for some time.


----------



## iownyou

Mistermark said:


> I don't think there's a cat's chance in hell of the Dubai off-plan property market recovering by 2011. Even if there was extreme undersupply, coupled with staged payments being tied to construction progress, buyers have learnt the hard way that there's no value in an incomplete project, developments can be put on hold at any stage and standards of construction vary widely.
> 
> IMHO off-plan in Dubai will take at least a generation to recover, if it ever does. Instead, some developers who complete projects successfully and bank worthwhile profits from doing so will buy up vacant plots and construct developments from their own resources, selling completed units to investors and owner-occupiers. Obviously the number of developers with enough cash to do this will be limited, which means the level of additional supply, over and above what's already delivered or under construction, may be constrained for some time.


in america it works much better
what we have here is lets say a new project building or neighborhood with new appartments or homes.
the interested buyer will go to the developers office and put a small check usually2 to 5 percent of the total price as a reservation.then the developer will build the project till complition and 30 days before handover they will ask you how will you pay the rest of the ballance (usually poeple will pay by getting a mortgage because most popele dont have the cash to pay) and thats it. this makes more sence to if the value goes up wile is under construction and this is one way many poeple made money just by paying a small amount of money they bought 20 30 or ever 100 homes and put small deposits as i said of 1 -2 or 5 percent and waited for the project finish and by the time it was finished 6 months to 1 year latter you could have made well over $100,000 on profit from each house then get the loan from the bank and then before even making the first payment to the mortgage you could resell the property and make big bucks ( this is one of the way i and my friends made alot of moneykay dedicated to 234sale


----------



## moscowboy

Imre said:


> *Japanese contractors owed billions by Dubai firms*
> 
> 
> Japanese builders are owed billions of dollars on projects that include the Dubai Metro and Palm Island, according to a top diplomat and leading contractors from the country,
> Japanese builders have played a pivotal role in Dubai’s construction boom, spearheading work on the Dh28 billion (US$7.6bn) Metro and helping to build Nakheel’s palm-shaped islands off the emirate’s coast.
> 
> Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI), a part of the giant Mitsubishi Group, and Taisei Corporation, one of Japan’s largest contractors, are among those firms affected by non-payment on contracts that date back years in some cases.
> 
> “MHI executed the construction of the Dubai Metro and some other contracts and we are still awaiting payment,” said Koji Okamoto, the general manager of the Middle East office of MHI in Dubai. The company has contracts in the Middle East valued at $150bn.
> 
> Taisei is believed to be owed several billion dollars across a number of projects in Dubai and elsewhere outside the UAE.
> 
> The company is still awaiting payment from the Roads and Transport Authority (RTA) for completed projects including Doha Road near the Burj Dubai and the Arabian Ranches interchange. It is owed funds from Nakheel for the Gateway Towers and vehicular tunnel projects on Palm Jumeirah, in addition to several infrastructure schemes on Palm Jebel Ali and Almas Tower at Jumeirah Lake Towers.
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091107/BUSINESS/711079990/0/yourview


They will never get that money from UAE !

Several Japanese and Korean firms lost billions on construction projects in India too.

They have no way to collect from overseas corporations.
I hope they learn their lessons.


----------



## 234sale

Youre telling us how to speculate and filp properties. Hahahaha

Why did you think there was ques round the corner for every Dubai property launch. you didn't have to wait till completion, just sell to the next guy in the que.

The problem with your speculative game is many gambled on that last flip, they now have nothing.

Did you know that you know have to pay 30% in Dubai before you can resale. Though I expect to see the return of some kind of reservation reselling if the off plan market was to improve.

2 years ago, I nearly bought a house in the Uk with 0.5% deposit, I decided not to go through with the transaction. thank Bob I didn't. 

good luck with your gambling.


----------



## iownyou

234sale said:


> Youre telling us how to speculate and filp properties. Hahahaha
> 
> Why did you think there was ques round the corner for every Dubai property launch. you didn't have to wait till completion, just sell to the next guy in the que.
> 
> The problem with your speculative game is many gambled on that last flip, they now have nothing.
> 
> Did you know that you know have to pay 30% in Dubai before you can resale. Though I expect to see the return of some kind of reservation reselling if the off plan market was to improve.
> 
> 2 years ago, I nearly bought a house in the Uk with 0.5% deposit, I decided not to go through with the transaction. thank Bob I didn't.
> 
> good luck with your gambling.


i think you miss understood me.
i was telling you how i made alot of money because you asked me last time i did that in america not in dubai.
in america most projects were complited because a house takes about 6 to 9 months to be built unlike a hirise in dubai that takes 2 years or more you can see that your project is underway and ofcourse the last guys get burnt but the first ones and the ones who came soon enough made alot of money money doesent come easly you need to take the risk


----------



## iownyou

moscowboy said:


> They will never get that money from UAE !
> 
> Several Japanese and Korean firms lost billions on construction projects in India too.
> 
> They have no way to collect from overseas corporations.
> I hope they learn their lessons.


i dont think that will happen. uae is looking to colaborate and make new ties with countries i dont think is worth ruining the relationship with them over money


----------



## moscowboy

A lot of people made money by flipping in America, in Dubai, in Moscow, in every other country. 
A lot of people got stuck with the property and they are now bankrupt.


----------



## Imre

*Al Habtoor chief upbeat on Dubai future*


One of the UAE's most prominent businessmen has delivered an upbeat message on the future of Dubai, saying the impact of the global economic crisis was "fading into history".

Khalaf Al Habtoor, chairman of the Al Habtoor Group which employs a total of 40,000 people across a number of sectors, said he was now seeing improvements in many parts of the business.

He added that while "the lights have flickered briefly" in Dubai during the downturn, he believed the city was now on the recovery path.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/572758-al-habtoor-chief-upbeat-on-dubai-future


----------



## iownyou

moscowboy said:


> A lot of people made money by flipping in America, in Dubai, in Moscow, in every other country.
> A lot of people got stuck with the property and they are now bankrupt.


yes your right this is why i said i was in the right place at the right time


----------



## iownyou

Putting Dubai's housing in order
Working to provide decent homes to middle-income expats is entity's concern

By Saifur Rahman, Business Editor, Gulf News Published: 00:00 November 8, 2009 
Hesham Abdullah Al Qasim, chief executive officer, Dubai Real Estate Corporation, projects housing supply to reach 30,000 units. Image Credit: Ahmed Ramzan, Gulf News Dubai: More than 5,000 new housing units will be added to Dubai's property market in the next few months by Wasl — the asset management arm of Dubai Real Estate Corporation (Drec), a top official said.

"We already manage about 20,000 housing units. With the new developments, the number of total residential units in our portfolio will rise to 25,000 units," Hesham Abdullah Al Qasim, chief executive officer of Drec, told Gulf News.

"Over the past year of economic downturn, Dubai's property market has moved from freehold to leasehold — a natural shift," he said.

This could help rents to ease further as supplies mount. Total housing supplies in Dubai this year could range from 27,000 to 30,000 according to the projections made by the Department of Finance in January, which was then predicted to have been less than enough to cool the demand.

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/putting-dubai-s-housing-in-order-1.524721


----------



## iownyou

UAE remains a prime destination for FDI 


UAE remains a prime destination for FDI. (EB FILE) 





By 

Nadim Kawach on Sunday, November 08, 2009 

The UAE has attracted more than $51 billion (Dh187bn) in foreign direct investment (FDI) in four years to maintain its position as the second largest FDI destination in the Arab region, according to official data.

In 2008, the UAE accounted for around 14.2 per cent of the total FDI of about $96.48bn pumped into the Arab World, showed the figures by the Kuwaiti-based Inter-Arab Investment Guarantee Corporation (IAIGC).

Despite a slight fall in FDI flow last year compared with 2007, the UAE was ranked second after Saudi Arabia in the region in terms of FDI in 2008 and the previous three years, IAIGC said in its monthly bulletin.

The figures showed cumulative FDI into the UAE totalled $51.4bn during 2005-2008 while the flow was put at about $92bn in Saudi.


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1082009_a199da82789a449fb06a98ff5933c445.aspx


----------



## shagdash

QUOTE=ryeman;45445021]
My villa dewa bills average aed 500 a month, less than i paid for electricity in Canada in a similiar size electric heated house.
[/QUOTE]




Philippa C said:


> Shagdash, the figures you quote above are way off the mark.
> 
> It is possible to live in a large villa with a large garden and pay 2.5K a month to Dewa by taking care to conserve water and energy (for the sake of the environment) so who ever is paying 4K for a small villa only has themselves to blame.


Residents protest over Dubai utility bills
Praveen Menon

Last Updated: November 07. 2009 Jeff Topping / The National

DUBAI // Scores of Dubai residents say their water and electricity bills as much as doubled in September without explanation. The Dubai Electricity and Water Authority (Dewa) has denied raising its rates. It says the customers have been confused by a new billing format – a point many of them dispute.

“We can’t afford this and will simply have to leave Dubai if this continues,” said Kellie Whitehead, a resident of Arabian Ranches and one of those who say their September bill was twice the amount of the previous month.



The British freelance copywriter, who lives in a three-bedroom villa with her husband and three children, said her bill, which was already about Dh2,500 (US$680) a month because of their swimming pool and irrigation system, rose to Dh5,000.

“We have no choice but to pay up because otherwise they will cut off the supplies,” said Mrs Whitehead, who added that she had been in touch with Dewa several times but that the authority had not given her a clear answer about the apparent increase.

A group has even formed on the social networking site Facebook called “My Dewa bill increased in September 09 by a crazy amount for no reason!” 

One member claimed the bill for his three-bedroom flat in Al Barsha was Dh8,000. As of yesterday, the group had 144 members. Other Dubai-based websites have jumped on the bandwagon and are running similar discussions about what is causing the bills to shoot up.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091108/NATIONAL/711079886


----------



## cayman1

I think at right price the off plan market will have recovery soon ,when the bank begin to lend money


----------



## Hanna

*Waiting for Dubai’s strata law to deliver*

Hugh Naylor

* Last Updated: November 07. 2009 12:07PM UAE / November 7. 2009 8:07AM GMT

Apartment blocks in Dubai are suffering from a lack of confidence in the property market. Stephen Lock / The National

DUBAI // Homeowners say its absence creates legal ambiguity and developers complain that without it they are essentially forced to provide extra services for householders.

Both, however, seem to agree that their dilemmas and Dubai’s lacklustre property market could be smoothed over by the emirate’s strata law.

That is, if it is ever introduced.

Intended to legalise independent homeowners’ associations and add much-needed clarity to embryonic housing regulations, the law, commonly referred to as strata title, has been touted for nearly three years as imminent by officials and industry.

It was partly unveiled last year in a skeletal form, with the expectation that the accompanying regulations necessary for enforcing it would be soon in coming.

So far, there has been no sign of any regulations.

“We had three or four release dates when we thought that it was coming out, and none of us are any the wiser,” said Peter Crogan, chief executive of BCS Strata Management Services, a property management firm.

“The whole idea of bringing in this sort of law is that if Dubai is going to survive in the international investment and property market, it’s got to have rules that are internationally acclaimed.”

Dubai Real Estate Regulatory Agency, or Rera, which took a lead role in shaping its regulations, has for the past several months been largely silent on the issue. Officials there did not respond to questions on the issue. And in the interim, developers, homeowners and property management firms warn, the result is wavering confidence and continued confusion in the market.

“Everyone’s frustrated,” said Adrian Quinn, the chairman of Essential Community Management, a strata management firm that has been waiting years and invested a total Dh8 million ($US2.2m) for the day when the law would allow it to bid for rights to manage freehold properties in Dubai.

“The sooner the law comes in, the sooner the transparency comes, and people will feel comfortable buying again into the market.”

Although full details have not been made public, it is believed the law would allow homeowners to do everything from selecting their own property management firms and associated fees, and more clearly delineate rights of ownership between owner and developer while mandating community-wide funds for the upkeep of common areas.

The fact that many developers control their own property management is regarded by many in the industry as a conflict of interest. Authorities have also suggested the same, acknowledging that rates for such services would be lower if firms were allowed to bid for contracts from homeowners’ associations.

Speaking on the strata law in March of last year, Marwan bin Ghalita, Rera’s head, told a conference that it would “further protect real-estate investors and the community at large, as well as deter potential violators from committing irregularities to achieve profits at the expense of the city”.

Mr Quinn goes further: “Currently, the lack of transparency is hurting the Dubai property market severely, because property after property that’s been handed over to the owner is being managed by the developer, not independently.”

Developers are also frustrated, he said. “They don’t have a choice because Rera mandates that, without the strata law, developers are essentially left to do their own strata management, even if they don’t want to.”

Wazir Daredia, executive director and CEO of Trident International Holdings, an upmarket developer in Dubai, said his company would rather not be in the business of managing the properties it developed. “I have no special interest in managing buildings,” he said.

“I’m a developer, and I don’t want to. We don’t make money in this type of venture.”

Even the Middle East’s largest developer, Emaar, is prepared to abandon its current property management system once the strata law is in effect. In an e-mail, Emaar said it would recognise “the right of the owners’ association to choose management firms and service providers”.

Homeowners at the Trident Marinascape have complained of several problems, including thousands of dirhams in fees and ambiguity over ownership of the common law areas, said Marco Scalet, a member of a group of 70 concerned homeowners.

Mr Daredia denied these claims.

Michael Aldendorff, an informal leader of a group of concerned residents in Discovery Gardens which has been critical of its developer, Nakheel, also hopes the Strata law will clarify things. The residents’ main concern is the existence of a community account known as a sinking, or reserve, fund, that is paid by property owners to finance such things as painting and repairing communal areas.

If the money is not there, he said, “then we’ve literally lost millions and millions of dirhams that were supposed to be earmarked for future maintenance, which means, a year in, we’re starting from zero again.”

In an e-mail Nakheel said: “At Discovery Gardens, each building has an association and each of these associations has an individual reserve fund to pay for future capital expenditure such as building painting or lift upgrades, for the respective building.”

The current associations operating in the community are not independent.

It is a similar story at the Jumeirah Beach Residence, says Hamid Hamri, a spokesman for the community’s informal homeowners’ group, which has about 1,200 flats in the community registered with it.

Homeowners there have long been at odds with the developer and its management firm over fees and a range of other issues.

“The main issue for us,” he said, “is we don’t have a feeling that we really own anything in Dubai.”


----------



## moscowboy

shagdash said:


> QUOTE=ryeman;45445021]
> 
> The British freelance copywriter, who lives in a three-bedroom villa with her husband and three children, said her bill, which was already about Dh2,500 (US$680) a month because of their swimming pool and irrigation system, rose to Dh5,000.



These expats use water like it is coming from Thames. Then they complain.
They just don't realize that desalination costs $1 per gallon. 

In NY where water comes from Hudson river, water costs over $0.27 per gallon. 
Sewerage charges and other fees and taxes together would come to $1 per gallon usage. 
And, this is in a city where every house is taxed to the hilt in property taxes and other taxes. (50-60% of the entire pay check goes for taxes.)
Iownyou , who lives in USA, can shed more light on this. 

In Dubai, on the other hand, Govt. subsidized water bill is only $0.13 per gallon !
*Pool and Irrigation system in a Desert with desalinated water and then they compalin !! *
Grow up brats!


----------



## docc

^^ For now, i've moved to Badrah (at 1300/Sft), but i'm going to pursue it more.


----------



## Business Bay

*DIFC*

DIFC will be apartments or Office space? Any idea on the current prices for apartments in DIFC? Have they gone up in the last few months?


----------



## agod

iownyou said:


> good morning,
> forget about america. there is no more midle class in america and the bills and expensess are so high that people live paycheck to paycheck i see it every day in my current job.
> first of all income taxes are between 25 to 35 percent deepending on how much a person makes. i live with my wife and we are 2 people and my monthly utilities are about 200 to 300 dollars that is about 900 dhs per month and all the parking fees tool fees from crossing the bridge and property tax fees are 1 in 100 unlike in my home country italy they are 1 in 1000 so if you buy a home for 100,000 your taxes are 1000 per year in italy they are 100 per year and then you have car insurence and that is the law now and home insurence and so on there is nothing but expensess and no income now days





moscowboy said:


> These expats use water like it is coming from Thames. Then they complain.
> They just don't realize that desalination costs $1 per gallon.
> 
> In NY where water comes from Hudson river, water costs over $0.27 per gallon.
> Sewerage charges and other fees and taxes together would come to $1 per gallon usage.
> And, this is in a city where every house is taxed to the hilt in property taxes and other taxes. (50-60% of the entire pay check goes for taxes.)
> Iownyou , who lives in USA, can shed more light on this.
> 
> In Dubai, on the other hand, Govt. subsidized water bill is only $0.13 per gallon !
> *Pool and Irrigation system in a Desert with desalinated water and then they compalin !! *
> Grow up brats!


In Florida, which is a state that is basically swamps, and it rains a lot, they are very strict on water usage and wastage, irrigation can only be done on a couple of days a week, and in certain hours, recent law has been introduced, where every home has a rain sensor on the building, so if its' raining it switches off the sprinklers, to avoid over use, and they have an army of inspectors, that go around checking your sprinkler system, and the sensors, and the timings, if you become a delinquent, they threaten cut of.

I was really surprised when I came out here, thinking they would have some sort o laws regarding water use, but it doen't seem that way.

Alan


----------



## agod

True Blue said:


> I remember reading a news article about a teenage boy in USA who obtained $millions in mortgages to buy off plans and flipped them untill he got caught and arrested for fraud. Turns out the mortgage company made no checks on his income or ID and basically just handed over the funds to the builder on completion. He also had credit cards with thousands of dollars of credit which he used for deposits.
> 
> Was that you?



In Florida they stopped a lot of that, by introducing a clause in the contract that said, you had to hold the property for a year, before you could sell it, as most where flipping at closing.

Alan


----------



## Wannaberich

iownyou said:


> deepends what your looking to buy.
> if your looking for residential i would wait till february 2010 or march 2010 if your looking for anything in difc i would buy now and anything in business bay now or onother 6 months.
> 
> DIFC now
> BUSINESS BAY within 3 months
> JLT- MARINA in the next 6 months
> forget about any other project like(sports city,motor city,dubai land etc.)
> 
> but if you want to buy villa i think this is the time to buy now now now because there is not alot of villas in dubai as much as appartments so the supply is low and the price si great


If recent reports are to be believed then prices in Dubai have already started to rise.Together with the fact it seems the global recession is more or less over,plus we are well over the end of the summer in Dubai and Ramadan,it might not be a good idea to wait to buy anywhere.
I def would not wait 6 months to buy in the Marina.


----------



## AppleMac

iownyou said:


> but if you want to buy villa i think this is the time to buy now now now because there is not alot of villas in dubai as much as appartments so the supply is low and the price si great


True, but as some guy pointed out on the radio last night, given the restrictions on lending LTV rates, many people cannot get the finance for a villa whereas it is much easier to get finance for an apartment as they are much more affordable.


----------



## Wannaberich

AppleMac said:


> True, but as some guy pointed out on the radio last night, given the restrictions on lending LTV rates, many people cannot get the finance for a villa whereas it is much easier to get finance for an apartment as they are much more affordable.


Prices on villas,especially at Arabian Ranches,seem to be going up regardless.


----------



## Wannaberich

Question:
1/If you've purchased off-plan and made some stage payments for a property that either has not started or stopped construction are you not obliged to pay the next installment until construction starts/re-starts?
2/If construction has still not re-started say 5 years later can you get your money back?
3/If you have paid at least 30% and the project has not started/stopped can you pull out and get your first 30% back?(I believe there is a law that says you can?)

P.S I'm not in this situation myself,my partner asked and I wasnt sure of the answers.


----------



## shagdash

Wannaberich said:


> I def would not wait 6 months to buy in the Marina.


Hmm - but what about all that supply coming online in the tallest block? Surely that will exert a downward pressure on prices!


----------



## Philippa C

agod said:


> I was really surprised when I came out here, thinking they would have some sort o laws regarding water use, but it doen't seem that way.
> 
> Alan



I was amazed at how little water is recycled here. In other countries they make good use of "grey water" from showers etc to irrigate the garden. Also very big on mulching garden beds to cut down on evaporation from the soil. And it's illegal to use a sprinkler during certain (hottest) part of the day as most of the water evaporates before soaking into the soil.

I tried to install a grey water system here as it would pay for itself in a few months. Quite cheap to import but the problem is finding somone to install it and maintain it. Good business opportunity there I think!!

When you think about it oil is priced too low. It's a totally non-renewable resource. At least we have the possibility to recycle water. Litre for litre isn't Coke actually more expensive than oil??


----------



## Imre

*Sheikh Mohammed: the worst is over*

DUBAI // The global financial crisis has not hampered Dubai’s ambitions, its ruler said on Monday, adding the emirate had passed the worst of the economic downturn.

Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum, ruler of Dubai and prime minister of the UAE, said he had full confidence in the Dubai’s ability to act in the global market. “The worst is over and Dubai is now well-placed,” he said in a speech to investors. “The global economic crisis, despite its impact, will not deter Dubai’s ambitions.”



http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091109/BUSINESS/711099990/1041


----------



## True Blue

Philippa, water is more expensive than petrol never mind coke with their big brand profit!

Subsidising petrol is a joke, maybe taxis should get a subsidy but no one else.


----------



## Richard Head

Wannaberich said:


> Prices on villas,especially at Arabian Ranches,seem to be going up regardless.


Was told today that ADCB are offering 85% LTV on Ranches villas, and even Barclays, who have been fairly conservative in this market, are going up to 75% for clients who tick all the boxes. That might partly explain the start of increases coming back in, combined with the market becoming more of an end user rather than investor market, given that villas are very scarce compared with apartments in Dubai. Especially in nice, mature communities, of which Ranches is arguably the best.


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> Ranches is arguably the best.


Def agree with that.


----------



## Cayman

Good Luck docc.

Unless you want to move in to DG, I cannot seem to think of any completed Nakheel project. Perhaps if Nakeel is merged with Emaar, that might open up the possibility of moving in to a completed Emar poject such as the ones in DM or Down town Burj area.


----------



## dubaimat

Wannaberich said:


> Def agree with that.


apart from the location and that it is not freehold you could as well fall in love with Green Community, both are located in the middle of nowhere


----------



## iownyou

Imre said:


> why do you think "BUSINESS BAY within 3 months" ?
> 
> What will be the difference there in the next 3 months?


well i think business bay will be more developed in terms of some iconic building (burj) and other infrastructior will be done.

the second reaosn because people always wait for the biggining of the year to open new businesses so in spring it should be getting better not that all the supply will be gone but that many poeple are starting to think the bottom of the market is now behind us so many will start picking up properties now and they wont care if the properties will stay empty for a wile but at least they are buying properties for a low price and they have the chance to buy the best locations


----------



## iownyou

Business Bay said:


> DIFC will be apartments or Office space? Any idea on the current prices for apartments in DIFC? Have they gone up in the last few months?


both office or appartment, but if you know me then you know i would go for office or retail not appartment.

why office vs appartment?

because people are willing to drive 20 minutes to marina or business bay or other nice locations if they work in difc but office needs to be close to everything else. it give a messege to the employees and the customers that we are located in the heart of everything.
no metter if they say new downtown dubai is the center i still belive difc is the center thats where the stock market is thats where everything is going on. and most of all the supply in difc is nothing like business bay.


----------



## iownyou

AppleMac said:


> True, but as some guy pointed out on the radio last night, given the restrictions on lending LTV rates, many people cannot get the finance for a villa whereas it is much easier to get finance for an apartment as they are much more affordable.


see i dont think most people here are understanding.
the world has changed and wont be the same for a long time. who made money they are lucky and who didnt they are behind.
if financing is hard to abtain that is a good thing because then less loosers who have no money can come and buy properties and flip them but the serious long term buyers who can put big downpayments and can hold on to the properties are going to buy the properties and they will shape the market.
easy financing is not good now what we need now is to shape the market and make it into a mature market.and because of less financing then there will be less supply and that means your pricess will go up slowly but will only continue going up because the lack of supply the rents can be increased and so the value of the property will also go up.


----------



## iownyou

Indians back in hunt for Dubai and London property 


Indians back in hunt for Dubai and London property. (REUTERS) 





By 

Staff Writer on Monday, November 09, 2009 

High net-worth Indians (HNIs) and non-resident Indians (NRIs) are again eyeing foreign shores for real estate investments as property prices in the niche segment in India are showing signs of robust recovery. 

With real estate prices going down by a whopping 25-30 per cent and hitting rock bottom in some geographies and distress asset sales becoming the order of the day, there could be no better time than this to pick up a dream home abroad. 


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1092009_7e4c6f755e9246d0a504f3be64df406c.aspx


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## Wannaberich

Deyaar to develop retirement communities
http://www.ameinfo.com/214820.html

I thought elderly foreigners weren't welcome in Dubai?


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## iownyou

Wannaberich said:


> If recent reports are to be believed then prices in Dubai have already started to rise.Together with the fact it seems the global recession is more or less over,plus we are well over the end of the summer in Dubai and Ramadan,it might not be a good idea to wait to buy anywhere.
> I def would not wait 6 months to buy in the Marina.


you might be right is a time to take risks now but no metter what you should think about it this way

your not buying it at 2008 levels so your getting a big discount

things seem to be stabolazing from here.

the property will never be for free so even if it goes down a litle bit more is not going to be much more 

if people have held on to the properties till now and didnt sell or defoult before now then why should they sell them now if they are ready or olmost ready like me i am not going to sell now is done old olmost done is too late to sale now no point anymore so the big impact is only in the biggining of the crash there is no more impact like the biggining


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## Imre

*Investments in all sectors will continue: Mohammed *


November 10, 2009 

The global economic crisis will not deter Dubai's ambitions of implementing its development plans and will not divert it from its leading position nor distance it from playing its role in the international economy, said His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai.

Speaking at the Global Investors Meet in Dubai yesterday, Sheikh Mohammed, said: "I am confident that the worst has passed, and that as the global economy stabilises, Dubai today is well placed to exploit its inherent strength and its key strategic location to start new rounds in its march towards excellence. 

"This race, which has been witnessed by the whole world over the past three decades, was taken by our abilities of achievement and excellence," he said. 

Below is the full text of his speech.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1102009_5c690e086b9344e68a3e0e572a42c391.aspx


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## Imre

*Mohammad reaffirms UAE unity *

Vice-President quashes talk of discord and reassures investors on the strength of Dubai's economy

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/general/mohammad-reaffirms-uae-unity-1.525258

*Shaikh Mohammad tells Dubai doubters to shut up*

Speaking about the stream of stories on Dubai - Abu Dhabi relations, Shaikh Mohammad restated the commitment between all of the emirates in the UAE.

By Staff Reporter, Gulf News
Published: 13:41 November 9, 2009

Dubai: His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, had a stern message for Dubai’s doubters – telling them to “shut up”.

Speaking about the stream of stories on Dubai - Abu Dhabi relations, Shaikh Mohammad restated the commitment between all of the emirates in the UAE.

Switching to English, he added: "Who doesn't understand this should do their homework before they start talking. We will be there for each other when we need it."

"And I want to tell those people who nag about Dubai and Abu Dhabi to shut up."

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/general/shaikh-mohammad-tells-dubai-doubters-to-shut-up-1.525262

:banana::cheers::banana:


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## iownyou

Imre said:


> *Mohammad reaffirms UAE unity *
> 
> Vice-President quashes talk of discord and reassures investors on the strength of Dubai's economy
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/general/mohammad-reaffirms-uae-unity-1.525258
> 
> *Shaikh Mohammad tells Dubai doubters to shut up*
> 
> Speaking about the stream of stories on Dubai - Abu Dhabi relations, Shaikh Mohammad restated the commitment between all of the emirates in the UAE.
> 
> By Staff Reporter, Gulf News
> Published: 13:41 November 9, 2009
> 
> Dubai: His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, had a stern message for Dubai’s doubters – telling them to “shut up”.
> 
> Speaking about the stream of stories on Dubai - Abu Dhabi relations, Shaikh Mohammad restated the commitment between all of the emirates in the UAE.
> 
> Switching to English, he added: "Who doesn't understand this should do their homework before they start talking. We will be there for each other when we need it."
> 
> "And I want to tell those people who nag about Dubai and Abu Dhabi to shut up."
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/general/shaikh-mohammad-tells-dubai-doubters-to-shut-up-1.525262
> 
> :banana::cheers::banana:


:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:


----------



## moscowboy

Wannaberich said:


> Deyaar to develop retirement communities
> http://www.ameinfo.com/214820.html
> 
> I thought elderly foreigners weren't welcome in Dubai?


Retirees may visit Dubai for a week every year. 
Is it desirable to retire in Dubai?


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## xingu

moscowboy said:


> Retirees may visit Dubai for a week every year.


Why not 30 days like every other visit visa?


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## Wannaberich

Imre said:


> The global economic crisis will not deter Dubai's ambitions of implementing its development plans and will not divert it from its leading position nor distance it from playing its role in the international economy, said His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai.


Coming from a man thats lost almost all credibility that doesnt mean much.


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## True Blue

^^Looking back over the last 5 years of acheivements, how can you say he has lost ALL credibility??


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## Wannaberich

True Blue said:


> ^^Looking back over the last 5 years of acheivements, how can you say he has lost ALL credibility??


5 years which at the end equals shitloads of ripped of investors,oversupply of residential units,scrapped fantasies such as Dubailand.
Sheik Mo then went missing when all that shit hit that very big fan.
Yeah its all good.


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## AllaLV

*delay*

Hi everyone

From the resent contraction update photos, it’s clear that it will not be ready for another 8 to 12 month. It will take time to fit all electrical and MEP installations in place, plus building should be commissioned by dubai municipality, dewa etc. Very sad really, because I/m still paying PR EMI interest to ADCB every month AEd 2,500/- and MORE al tajir is delaying – more money I am going to loose. Is anyone facing same situation? what can we do about it? 

Thanks,
Alla


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## AltinD

^^ How are your villa in Morocco and your seaside Spanish apartment coming along?


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## Wannaberich

AltinD said:


> ^^ How are your villa in Morocco and your seaside Spanish apartment coming along?


So because other countries have screwed up that excuses the Sheik?
Strange argument.


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## Jeroen45

Wannaberich said:


> 5 years which at the end equals shitloads of ripped of investors,oversupply of residential units,scrapped fantasies such as Dubailand.
> Sheik Mo then went missing when all that shit hit that very big fan.
> Yeah its all good.


Oh please, speculating on off plan property is like 'investing' in derivatives on financial markets, it's a promise, if all things promised would be built, then there would be zero risk en everybody would be rich in such an utopian world.

Not doing anything was the MOST WISE to do for Sheikh Mohammed in my opinion. Let the market correct so the CREATION of wealth can continue as fast as possible. Not so for the west, they will need a lost decade (that has started now) in order to discover wat Sheikh Mohammed already knows. And even if he wished to intervene, he can't do it at the same scale as in the west with other people's money (tax money) because of the small tax base in Dubai.
From an economic viewpoint, it lacks any common sense to spend the money from productive people (taxpayers) and give it to the ones who screwed the economy up in the first place (banks, real-estate company's, car company's, ...)
So he did not make this mistake (in such a big scale), instead he restructured his company's allthough taking on some extra debt, to raise money for infrastructure like metro and new airport (first fiscal deficit ever!) and why not take advantage of private capital markets (issuing bonds) when there is a huge cost to pay because of the financial markets judged Dubai as a high risk on defaulting (CDS spread)? Now, the markets judge Dubai to fully fullfil its obligations. http://www.alphadinar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/image007.jpg
He's a wise man, judge him on what he accomplished untill now.

If someone takes distance (very hard if you lost a part of your life savings) and sees what Dubai has made in such a short period of time, he can't conclude anything else than to see creation by ambitious people (mostly foreigners), like foreigners did in New York, 100/150 years ago. The only difference here is that there IS a vision, New York was more like a (good!) experiment.


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## Wannaberich

Jeroen45 said:


> Oh please, speculating on off plan property is like 'investing' in derivatives on financial markets, it's a promise, if all things promised would be built, then there would be zero risk en everybody would be rich in such an utopian world.
> 
> Not doing anything was the MOST WISE to do for Sheikh Mohammed in my opinion. Let the market correct so the CREATION of wealth can continue as fast as possible. Not so for the west, they will need a lost decade (that has started now) in order to discover wat Sheikh Mohammed already knows. And even if he wished to intervene, he can't do it at the same scale as in the west with other people's money (tax money).
> So he restructured a bit, took on extra debt, to raise money for infrastructure works (first fiscal deficit ever for rapid infrastructur works).
> He's a wise man, judge him on what he accomplished untill now.
> 
> If someone takes distance (very hard if you lost a part of your life savings) and sees what Dubai has made in such a short period of time, he can't conclude anything else than to see creation unlike anything else, like foreigners did in New York, 100/150 years ago. The only difference here is that there IS a vision, New York had'nt (that much).


I disagree.Firstly I'm not putting all the blame on the Sheik.The global financial crisis was not his fault.Allowing mass construction rather than planned construction in line with population increase was.Allowing so many crooked developers to rip off so many people(thankfully I'm not one)is his fault.Laws need to be introduced and fast.Allowing false marketing of Dubai to bring in investors is his fault.Dubailand should never have been marketed
as the biggest theme park in the world when most of it is residential.
At the end of worldwide recession when people are looking at various places to invest many will know how inactive the Sheik was when Dubai was collapsing around him and confidence is lost.He enticed so many people to invest yet did little when they lost their money.Long term visas is just one area he should have looked at.
In hindsight his vison of where Dubai would be by say,2015,was not reasonable.Financial crisis or no crisis.
Jusy my opinion anyway.


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## Jeroen45

Wannaberich said:


> He enticed so many people to invest yet did little when they lost their money.


The best Sheikh Mohammed can do for investors is make Dubai a good long term investment which he does live up to, don't you think? If investors lost money because of bad decisions/timing (coming late, getting in at the top, having relied to much on credit, ...), that's their fault, not Sheikh Mohammed.


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## Jeroen45

Wannaberich said:


> Allowing so many crooked developers to rip off so many people


Have you got some statisticly proof for that? With Escrow accounts it is not possible for developers to get away with money (in the form of bonusses, the money stays in the banc account). Maybe they just went broke because of the market conditions or bad decision making, no theft involved, it's just part of the game, taking risks. Is it a crime to make the wrong business decisions when nobody stole any money from another party?


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## Wannaberich

Jeroen45 said:


> If investors lost money because of bad decisions/timing (coming late, getting in at the top, having relied to much on credit, ...), .


Errr,or getting ripped of by the shitloads of crooked developers in Dubai
(of which Sheik Mo is one?)


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## Wannaberich

Jeroen45 said:


> Have you got some statisticly proof for that? With Escrow accounts it is not possible for developers to get away with money (in the form of bonusses, the money stays in the banc account). Maybe they just went broke because of the market conditions or bad decision making, no theft involved, it's just part of the game, taking risks. Is it a crime to make the wrong business decisions when nobody stole any money from another party?


Just a big shame escrow was brought in way after people had started making payments on developments that have either come to a half or have never been started.
Go take a look at the JV threads and see what I mean dude.

P.S I'm not down on Dubai,I want it to succeed,some of the projects are awesome,but unlike you my head isnt stuck in the sand pretending all is rosy and that the Sheik is the second coming.


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## Jeroen45

Wannaberich said:


> P.S I'm not down on Dubai,I want it to succeed,some of the projects are awesome,but unlike you my head isnt stuck in the sand pretending all is rosy and that the Sheik is the second coming.


Having discussion on boards like this is good thing, for all of us, the more opinions, the smarter we get 
It may sound harsh but what happened to some of them is the same what happened in financial markets. People heard a nice story and bought promises on paper with hard earned money (or maybe newly created credit). That's not a wise thing to do!! Risking more than you can afford to loose on paper promises! Better to buy ready units or to buy a smaller one with less credit. Lot's of people are victim of theirselves! (helped a hand by greedy real estate brokers and greedy banks). I think the last to blame is Sheikh Mohammed, his vision is written down in his book, everybody can go out and buy it and read it but people don't like to do much of effort, they want to become rich the easy way.


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## Wannaberich

Of course people have to take some of the blame also.How much of the blame they should take depends on the situation I guess.I do however think we all deserve some protection.
There are plenty of hard working investors who just want to give their families a better standard of life and to make money from property investments is one way.
Not everyone deserves to be conned.


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## cayman1

Now at what price sqft is possible to sell offices in BB offplan ?


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## True Blue

Wannaberich said:


> Of course people have to take some of the blame also.How much of the blame they should take depends on the situation I guess.I do however think we all deserve some protection.
> There are plenty of hard working investors who just want to give their families a better standard of life and to make money from property investments is one way.
> Not everyone deserves to be conned.


The fact that there has been so many high profile arrests shows that Sheikh Mohammed is intent on righting the wrongs where he can, but what can he do for someone who paid 3000AED/ft for something they can't sell and can't afford to keep?

Dubailand will happen, first the infrastructure needs to be there. Dubai is suffering from a lack of power stations and sewage treatment facilities to cope with the residential loads. So first things first.

You can't blame Sheikh Mohammed for having a vision but you can criticise him and his advisors for not being realistic with the timescales needed to make it reality. Irrespective of this, what they have acheived is unprecedented IMO.


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## AltinD

The Wannabe probably first heard of Dubai in 2006 ....


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## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> You can't blame Sheikh Mohammed for having a vision but you can criticise him and his advisors for not being realistic with the timescales needed to make it reality. Irrespective of this, what they have acheived is unprecedented IMO.


The vision is great, although I do wonder how many Emiratis actually shared it.

The criticism should be as you say for trying to do too much too fast all on borrowed money - that risks turning a great achievement into a great failure.


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## Wannaberich

AltinD said:


> The Wannabe probably first heard of Dubai in 2006 ....


Which was around 2 years before I'd ever heard of Albania.


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## AltinD

^^ And why should I care? :laugh:


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## iownyou

what shaick did was the best thing.
in the west the goverment is a big scam all gangsters working in the goverment. if it was a true clean economy then the goverment should have done 2 things. eather regulate and watch companies more so the collaps wouldent have happend or let it crash by its self so things clean up the right way. shaik didnt know if there was over supply at one point there were 26,000 visass issued per day in dubai. so with 26,000 people moving to dubai per day it seemed that they needed it.he has no control if people want to stay or just want to rent the properties or just leave them empty as a back up investment.


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## Naz UK

^^E gaeer. (I agree).


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## iownyou

Naz UK said:


> ^^E gaeer. (I agree).


:bowtie:


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## sidxb

Wannaberich said:


> 5 years which at the end equals shitloads of ripped of investors,oversupply of residential units,scrapped fantasies such as Dubailand.
> Sheik Mo then went missing when all that shit hit that very big fan.
> Yeah its all good.


There is an old saying that you aim for the sky and you will reach the roof.

You can not deny the achievements of Dubai and incase you are not sure you just need to see Dubai on google map in 1999 ( make it 10 year instead of 5 for clearer difference ). I do not want to brag on how Dubai was back in 1999 and the map would show you a lot. Downtown , uptown , dubai marina , jbr , jlt all villa projects , palm , road network , metro etc etc are achievements and there are thousand who invested in these areas and another thousands who made money in them. 

Sheikh Mo can not rewrite economic principals and make real estate investments to double ALWAYS. Thats not possible in any market. It would do more justice to Dubai to compare the growth and development with GCC countries and other emerging markets and always remember that UAE came into being almost 40 years ago.


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## iownyou

sidxb said:


> There is an old saying that you aim for the sky and you will reach the roof.
> 
> You can not deny the achievements of Dubai and incase you are not sure you just need to see Dubai on google map in 1999 ( make it 10 year instead of 5 for clearer difference ). I do not want to brag on how Dubai was back in 1999 and the map would show you a lot. Downtown , uptown , dubai marina , jbr , jlt all villa projects , palm , road network , metro etc etc are achievements and there are thousand who invested in these areas and another thousands who made money in them.
> 
> Sheikh Mo can not rewrite economic principals and make real estate investments to double ALWAYS. Thats not possible in any market. It would do more justice to Dubai to compare the growth and development with GCC countries and other emerging markets and always remember that UAE came into being almost 40 years ago.


:cheer:


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## Hanna

*Japanese contractors owed billions by Dubai firms*

Tom Arnold

* Last Updated: November 07. 2009 7:26PM UAE / November 7. 2009 3:26PM GMT

Japanese builders are owed billions of dollars on projects that include the Dubai Metro. Randi Sokoloff / The National

Japanese builders are owed billions of dollars on projects that include the Dubai Metro and Palm Island, according to a top diplomat and leading contractors from the country,Japanese builders have played a pivotal role in Dubai’s construction boom, spearheading work on the Dh28 billion (US$7.6bn) Metro and helping to build Nakheel’s palm-shaped islands off the emirate’s coast.
But as the global financial crisis brought many projects to a standstill, an increasing number of foreign companies, especially builders, have reported payment problems mainly linked to Dubai developers.
“Some Japanese construction companies are facing very serious debt problems as Dubai can’t pay,” said Seiichi Otsuka, the Japanese consul general in Dubai. “Some companies engaged with the construction of the Metro are facing some payment issues.” He said companies were also owed money by Nakheel.Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI), a part of the giant Mitsubishi Group, and Taisei Corporation, one of Japan’s largest contractors, are among those firms affected by non-payment on contracts that date back years in some cases.MHI led a consortium of five contractors, including four Japanese companies, that was awarded a Dh12.45bn contract in May 2005 to plan and develop the Metro’s Red Line. The following year, the same Mitsubishi-led consortium won a Dh4.08bn contract to build the Green Line. Other members of the consortium were Mitsubishi Corporation, Obayashi Corporation and Kajima Corporation of Japan, and Yapi Merkezi of Turkey.Ten of the 29 stations on the project’s Red Line opened in September, with the Green Line expected to be operational next year.“MHI executed the construction of the Dubai Metro and some other contracts and we are still awaiting payment,” said Koji Okamoto, the general manager of the Middle East office of MHI in Dubai. The company has contracts in the Middle East valued at $150bn.Taisei is believed to be owed several billion dollars across a number of projects in Dubai and elsewhere outside the UAE.
The company is still awaiting payment from the Roads and Transport Authority (RTA) for completed projects including Doha Road near the Burj Dubai and the Arabian Ranches interchange. It is owed funds from Nakheel for the Gateway Towers and vehicular tunnel projects on Palm Jumeirah, in addition to several infrastructure schemes on Palm Jebel Ali and Almas Tower at Jumeirah Lake Towers.
Taisei is also owed money for its construction of Nakheel Hotels’s Djibouti Palace Kempinski, the second phase of which opened earlier this year in the east African nation.Limitless, an arm of Dubai World, is believed to owe funds to the contractor for work on its Downtown Jebel Ali scheme. In 2007, Taisei secured a Dh1.3bn contract to construct four buildings in the east quarter of the development.
The Japanese government has not discussed the payment issues with the Dubai Government, nor has it intervened with financial assistance to those companies affected, Mr Otsuka said.“We are in a position to push both sides to make an amicable solution,” he said. “So far, we have not been officially requested by the Dubai Government to explore so-called public financing. But if they try to involve the [Japanese] government we would have to give serious consideration to such a request.”Mr Otsuka said it was difficult to put a figure on the outstanding debt as some payment was due shortly.Foreign contractors operating in Dubai continue to report payment problems despite moves to ease liquidity through a $20bn bond programme. Half of that has already been raised and Dubai has announced plans to borrow the second $10bn.The UK Association for Consultancy and Engineering estimated earlier this year that as much as Dh3bn was due to contractors. Nelson Ogunshakin, the chief executive of the association, said last month a “substantial” amount of that figure was still outstanding.The same month, Lord Davies, the UK minister of state for trade, called on the companies to ensure outstanding payments were settled.“It is inappropriate to reveal details about our arrangements with contractors as we respect the confidentiality of our business exchanges,” said a Nakheel spokesman. “We remain committed to working in partnership with our contractors over the long term.”A spokeswoman for Limitless said: “As is the case with businesses across the world, we have discussed arrangements with some suppliers. At the same time, we are being as flexible as possible with our own clients, sub-developers at Downtown Jebel Ali, by continuing to agree new payment schedules for investors who are committed to developing there.”RTA officials were not available for comment.


----------



## mullogutherum

Jeroen45 said:


> Having discussion on boards like this is good thing, for all of us, the more opinions, the smarter we get
> It may sound harsh but what happened to some of them is the same what happened in financial markets. People heard a nice story and bought promises on paper with hard earned money (or maybe newly created credit). That's not a wise thing to do!! Risking more than you can afford to loose on paper promises! Better to buy ready units or to buy a smaller one with less credit. Lot's of people are victim of theirselves! (helped a hand by greedy real estate brokers and greedy banks). I think the last to blame is Sheikh Mohammed, his vision is written down in his book, everybody can go out and buy it and read it but people don't like to do much of effort, they want to become rich the easy way.


When you sit in the Big Chair, you own responsibility for the Big Picture and whatever happens to it--particularly when that chair is inherited and not subject to significant stakeholder oversight.

It's not as if the Sheikh is some kind of detached godhead figure, like King Bhumibol of Thailand, not involving himself in the grubby commercial details of his subjects' existence. No, Mohammed has been a playah, with significant equity stakes in many of the commercial entities involved in the crash. And the regulatory environment, which he ultimately 'owns', has itself been a major source of real-estate investor risk. 

The GFC may have been the catalyst for Dubai's collapse, but it wasn't responsible for making Dubai the worst-performing real estate market on the globe in the past year. For the causes of that fragility, one has to look within Dubai itself.


----------



## Jeroen45

mullogutherum said:


> The GFC may have been the catalyst for Dubai's collapse, but it wasn't responsible for making Dubai the worst-performing real estate market on the globe in the past year. For the causes of that fragility, one has to look within Dubai itself.


What you're saying is only half of the story.

In the last year, expats got laid off in great numbers because of the crisis. After losing their job, they also lost their visa because they where in Dubai for work in the first place. They all had to return home because no job/business means no visa. Dubai doesn't want expats with no income. (Rent can also be seen as income so you need either money or a job/business to be allowed to live in Dubai).

Additionaly, investors worldwide had to raise cash because of the forced deleveraging that took place. All assets corrected, worldwide. The ones with the most speculators corrected the most. 

Dubai real estate has halved in value, so what?

It's a positive thing for fundamentals!! Real estate prices which have halved in the past 12 months creates opportunity for entrepreneurs who have the skills to add productivty to the UAE economy but could'nt pay for it before because housing became unaffordable in the booming times. And they will come to Dubai, lots of them will come from the west, because they are getting duped by their goverments and if they have the brains+money.


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## sidxb

mullogutherum said:


> The GFC may have been the catalyst for Dubai's collapse, but it wasn't responsible for making Dubai the worst-performing real estate market on the globe in the past year. For the causes of that fragility, one has to look within Dubai itself.


I am not sure but if we change the point of reference instead of 1 year to lets say 3 years ... Is Dubai still the worst performing market. I am not big fan of graphs as the whole perspective changes with changing your period of reference.

I believe in UK the property prices were already sliding in 2007 whereas in Dubai prices were rocketing in 2007 and early 2008. Whereas in 1 year graph you may see worst harm to Dubai property prices due to GFC I am not sure same would be true during last 3 year period.


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## Mistermark

mullogutherum said:


> The GFC may have been the catalyst for Dubai's collapse, but it wasn't responsible for making Dubai the worst-performing real estate market on the globe in the past year. For the causes of that fragility, one has to look within Dubai itself.


I agree that Dubai's property market has been the world's worst-performing over the past 12 months. However, not only is it not the worst-performing over a longer historical time-frame, as others have pointed out, but there are reasons to believe it may recover more than many that have declined less steeply.

For good or ill, Dubai has an economy like no other I can think of - very highly directed in some respects, very laissez-faire, and with no tax, in others. In the UK, when the GFC hit, people who lost their jobs didn't leave the country. Instead, they stayed, and were paid benefits - out of money borrowed by the state. So demand for housing remained constant, and ability to pay for it was only slightly diminished, whereas in Dubai, demand plummeted.

The debt that now burdens the UK will be with us for at least a decade, possibly more, while the US's could be with it for a generation. To tackle it, politicians have only two options: slash spending, or raise taxes. The former results in public sector workers losing their jobs (they'll spend less on the dole than in jobs, and will need financial support while unemployed) and in the state buying less from the private sector (similar consequences), while the latter takes money away from workers that they might otherwise have spent. So the task of reducing the debt will act as a brake on our economy for a long time - and that's even before you consider the cost of simply servicing the debt, and the risk that interest rates may have to rise in the medium term to make our currency one that people want to hold.

In contrast, Dubai has taken the pain all in one big hit, but the upside for them is that they haven't chosen to postpone it. Yes, the country has a huge amount of debt, but it's of a very different kind: it's linked to big projects and has been run up by companies part-owned by the state. If the indebtedness of the major corporations in the US or UK was added to the national debt, it would become horrific in comparison with Dubai's. And the existence of such projects in Dubai, compared with the difficulties that Anglo-Saxon economies will have in getting even close to emulating them in the next decade or more, explains why Dubai is potentially set fair.

That said, I accept that Dubai has shot itself in the foot more than once. There was no excuse for the lack of proper regulation or the provision of a court system that worked, to protect property buyers from scams and under-delivery by developers or for the emirate to fail to deliver on residency visas that were promised in contracts approved by master developers owned or part-owned by the state. These two failings will probably make it impossible to sell off-plan property in Dubai for a generation, as owners of capital don't trust the environment, while the latter error is also depriving the emirate of affluent, high-spending citizens that could have underpinned the market when the crisis hit and ought to be powering its recovery at a time when wealthy, successful, internationally mobile citizens of Anglo-Saxon nations are facing many years of high taxes and dwindling public services in their native countries.


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## iownyou

Business leaders bullish on Q4 


The travel sector was most confident in their outlook. (EB FILE) 





By 

Shveta Pathak on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 

Dubai business leaders are more bullish in their expectations regarding business prospects for the last quarter of the year, results of the latest Monthly Business Leaders Survey of September conducted by the Dubai Chamber of Commerce and Industry have shown.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1112009_86c5ccb6907a4abaa9824c7d1628f9f9.aspx


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## iownyou

california has performed worst then dubai.

property prices here are down up to 80 percent (80%).
i bought a home for 350,000 dollars in 2005 and is now selling for 70,000 is there usch thing in dubai?...................no i know there isent unless we are talking about offplan.


----------



## Jesus.C

*Delay Delay Delay*



AllaLV said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> From the resent contraction update photos, it’s clear that it will not be ready for another 8 to 12 month. It will take time to fit all electrical and MEP installations in place, plus building should be commissioned by dubai municipality, dewa etc. Very sad really, because I/m still paying PR EMI interest to ADCB every month AEd 2,500/- and MORE al tajir is delaying – more money I am going to loose. Is anyone facing same situation? what can we do about it?
> 
> Thanks,
> Alla


Hi

Regarding the EMI Interest, one of the ways Investors financing through ADCB do is that they start paying the installment s to stop the Interest at least even though the property is not completed. Usually this is done 6 months prior the expected handover date in order to rent it out before a year.
Another way when the EMI is due for payment banks are offering a schedule payment on 12 months which helps but the rent unfortunately won’t cover the expenses.
Sorry for your loss but what to do. I am financing through DIB and agreed to pay a certain EMI amount that was higher than other conventional banks but fixed regardless of the delay by the developer.

Regards


----------



## Wannaberich

------------


----------



## Morrismarina

One of the problems with Dubai as a tourist destination is the high cost presumably due to the last few years of high inflation.
Take the price of a drink. My friend who's earning good money in Dubai is even complaining about prices now, he earns a very income but is now starting to stay in rather than go out for a drink. A small bottle of Corona is around 30 Dhs now in a half decent bar. That's £5 for a small bottle of beer. Buy a round for yourself and three mates and that's £20 !! And it's not even a pint each. I can buy the same bottle in a local bar in UK for half that price.
Take taxis fares, I reckon they've more than doubled since I first visited Dubai in 2005. 
At Easter we planned to use the Jemeriah Beach Hotel private beach area for the day, it was 300 Dhs each, that's fifty bloody quid each !!
And the duty free prices have gone through the roof. I bought a litre of Grants at Easter 2008 for 45 Dhs but Easter this year price had gone up to 60Dhs, that's a 33% increase in 12 months. Looking at the other bottles of spirits they all had gone up by a sinilar amount.
My friends parents spend time in Dubai about 3 times a year and cannot believe the prices increases everywhere especially food in the supermarket. 
I remember earlier this year on one of the Marina threads there was a photo of a breakfast somebody had bought for equivalent of £10 which I could have bought in my local cafe in UK for £2.50
Whilst the well off will always be able to afford Dubai I reckon many ordinary people are getting priced out now. Add in the many years of austerity to come in the UK and I reckon vistor numbers certainly from the UK will be way down for many years.


----------



## True Blue

^^Dubai is still much cheaper than many European destinations particularly Danish and Scandinavian. Not many louts or drunks visit there either


----------



## iownyou

deleted


----------



## iownyou

noooo i thought it would be making the 1000 page lol anyways let me tell you living in dubai used to be very very expensive but it is much cheaper there now. if you rent a car is also expensive i knew alot of people working there used to rent and not buy cars so is tough everywhere dont think dubai is different then any other country. just because some of us have alot of money that doesent mean the rest have money too. most people here in america live on $30,000 usd per year this is the averege income and for a small family this is nothing so actually people in america make less then workers in dubai the only way the people in america survive is because they live on credit cards and car loans and pay the minimum every month unlike other countries(dubai) people pay cash for most things


----------



## iownyou

i am still not 1000s so mad lol


----------



## jagmp

dubaimat said:


> Quite impressive, this equals to 240 hours per month all for 7200 dirhams, now with the cost of living we have in Dubai, I would suggest you try it yourself (just for one month)


They are there because they would be worse back home.

Unfortunately thats how the capitalist society functions.People with good education and skills are paid higher than ones without it.Socialism as a principal is ideal but history shows it hasn't worked.


----------



## cayman1

1000 thanks at all:lol::banana:


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> ^^Dubai is still much cheaper than many European destinations particularly Danish and Scandinavian. Not many louts or drunks visit there either


I doubt it's cheaper than "many" destinations at all. Scandinavia is a poor comparison...... tourism isn't such a major part of the economy in these countries. Hardly big draw holiday destinations, the weather's crap for a start.


----------



## iownyou

noooo i thought it would be making the 1000 page lol anyways let me tell you living in dubai used to be very very expensive but it is much cheaper there now. if you rent a car is also expensive i knew alot of people working there used to rent and not buy cars so is tough everywhere dont think dubai is different then any other country. just because some of us have alot of money that doesent mean the rest have money too. most people here in america live on $30,000 usd per year this is the averege income and for a small family this is nothing so actually people in america make less then workers in dubai the only way the people in america survive is because they live on credit cards and car loans and pay the minimum every month unlike other countries(dubai) people pay cash for most things 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States


----------



## AppleMac

Morrismarina said:


> Whilst the well off will always be able to afford Dubai I reckon many ordinary people are getting priced out now. Add in the many years of austerity to come in the UK and I reckon vistor numbers certainly from the UK will be way down for many years.


I have noticed that there are very few tourists from the UK in Dubai now - they have been replaced by Germans, Russians, Japanese and visitors from other Gulf countries.

Whether thats good or bad depends on your view of the British tourist.. :runaway:


----------



## AltinD

Morrismarina said:


> One of the problems with Dubai as a tourist destination is the high cost presumably due to the last few years of high inflation.
> Take the price of a drink. My friend who's earning good money in Dubai is even complaining about prices now, he earns a very income but is now starting to stay in rather than go out for a drink. A small bottle of Corona is around 30 Dhs now in a half decent bar. That's £5 for a small bottle of beer. Buy a round for yourself and three mates and that's £20 !! And it's not even a pint each. I can buy the same bottle in a local bar in UK for half that price.
> Take taxis fares, I reckon they've more than doubled since I first visited Dubai in 2005.
> At Easter we planned to use the Jemeriah Beach Hotel private beach area for the day, it was 300 Dhs each, that's fifty bloody quid each !!
> And the duty free prices have gone through the roof. I bought a litre of Grants at Easter 2008 for 45 Dhs but Easter this year price had gone up to 60Dhs, that's a 33% increase in 12 months. Looking at the other bottles of spirits they all had gone up by a sinilar amount.
> My friends parents spend time in Dubai about 3 times a year and cannot believe the prices increases everywhere especially food in the supermarket.
> I remember earlier this year on one of the Marina threads there was a photo of a breakfast somebody had bought for equivalent of £10 which I could have bought in my local cafe in UK for £2.50
> Whilst the well off will always be able to afford Dubai I reckon many ordinary people are getting priced out now. Add in the many years of austerity to come in the UK and I reckon vistor numbers certainly from the UK will be way down for many years.



I sponsored the visit visas of my (2) parents today and paid in total *1,455 AED *and 2,000 AED security (refundable) deposits. 

Early in the decade it would have cost me only 250 - 260 AED. hno:


----------



## iownyou

AltinD said:


> I sponsored the visit visas of my (2) parents today and paid in total *1,455 AED *and 2,000 AED security (refundable) deposits.
> 
> Early in the decade it would have cost me only 250 - 260 AED. hno:


inflation+greed


----------



## Morrismarina

AppleMac said:


> I have noticed that there are very few tourists from the UK in Dubai now - they have been replaced by Germans, Russians, Japanese and visitors from other Gulf countries.
> 
> Whether thats good or bad depends on your view of the British tourist.. :runaway:


It's good news if the lack of UK Tourists is replaced, at the end of the day it doesn't matter where they come from so long as Dubai still attracts them.


----------



## iownyou

Morrismarina said:


> It's good news if the lack of UK Tourists is replaced, at the end of the day it doesn't matter where they come from so long as Dubai still attracts them.



is all bout the benjamins


----------



## smussuw

Imre said:


> Welcome back Smussuw , how was the Police Academy ?


Just like a prison :nuts: actually worse hno:


----------



## Wannaberich

AltinD said:


> I sponsored the visit visas of my (2) parents today and paid in total *1,455 AED *and 2,000 AED security (refundable) deposits.
> 
> Early in the decade it would have cost me only 250 - 260 AED. hno:


How did you convince them to leave Albania for Dubai if only for a while? must have been hard?


----------



## DanMs

Wannaberich said:


> How did you convince them to leave Albania for Dubai if only for a while? must have been hard?


I don't see why somebody should leave Albania for a desert city. Who was once a third world country.

When price of oil will go down, AltinD will be back home. :lol:


----------



## 9714

iownyou said:


> inflation+greed


Probably realised 250dhs is not much of a security deposit... unfortunately for those who earn little, it is v difficult to sponsor anyone...


----------



## 9714

can one sponsor someone who is not immediate family?


----------



## Hanna

*Palm Jebel Ali complaints investigated*

Angela Giuffrida

* Last Updated: November 12. 2009 7:54PM UAE / November 12. 2009 3:54PM GMT

Unhappy investors in the Nakheel Palm Jebel Ali project bring their complaints to the Dubai Land Department. Amy Leang / The National
The Dubai Land Department (DLD) will investigate complaints over the stalled Nakheel Palm Jebel Ali project after about 125 disgruntled property buyers petitioned the authority.Nakheel has offered investors alternative homes in other projects that are either completed or already under construction, including at International City, Jumeirah Heights and Al Furjan.
“After patiently waiting for seven years and putting all of our hard-earned money into this project, we are being given the option to transfer to inferior properties which are not in the same league as those promised to us,” the investors said in a letter to the DLD. “This is not what was sold to us.” An official said the department would compile a report on the situation.Palm Jebel Ali, the second part of the Palm island trilogy, was launched by Nakheel in 2003 and was designed to accommodate up to 250,000 people and add 70km of beachfront to Dubai. Work came to a standstill on the vast artificial island development after property prices started to tumble last year.
“We cannot comment on individual cases other than reinforcing that customers will be given a range of options within the wider Nakheel portfolio to transfer their investment,” a Nakheel spokeswoman said. “Investors have the option of consolidation if they own other properties within the Nakheel portfolio. “The advantage of this option to the investor is that Nakheel is able to hand over property to the owner sooner than it might on Palm Jebel Ali and help investors experience an earlier return on investment.” That did not pacify investors, some of whom have sunk more than Dh15 million (US$4m) into a project where prices have fallen by about 45 per cent from their peak in the third quarter of last year. “We own five properties there altogether,” said Vinod Sudar, who is part of an investment consortium. “They need to compare apples to apples. We want them to go ahead with this project or give us equivalent properties.”
Robin Medenwaldt, who has paid Dh2.8m towards his investment, said that “people are getting nervous and have lost confidence. We wanted to live in that prestigious project. At the time, we felt it was a safe investment. It’s curious to people how this can happen.”
The investors have called on Nakheel to resume construction, register their plots with the DLD and officially agree to link further payments with construction milestones. “While the project is registered with the land department, the properties haven’t been registered in our names,” said Aarti Chana, a villa owner. “Nobody questioned it because they thought the project would go ahead as promised to us.”Thousands of investors put money into off-plan projects long before their investments would have been protected by an escrow account law was introduced in 2007. It states that all money collected by developers from investors must be placed in the account and used solely to finance construction.However, when the law was introduced, some developers were given special permits that exempted them from opening escrow accounts due to their size, reputation and strong guarantees of delivering on their promises.
Nakheel and Emaar Properties are thought to be among these companies, according to a property lawyer who asked not to be named.
Investors today are feeling the brunt of the property sector fallout, where hundreds of projects have been delayed as developers struggle to raise cash to finish them. Some Dubai developers have encouraged home buyers involved in struggling projects to transfer their investments to other developments that are nearer completion, or have been completed.“The unfortunate fact is, even if these investments were made with a long-term view, the world economic crisis certainly raised the level of risk involved,” said Ian Albert, the regional director of the property consultancy Colliers International.


----------



## True Blue

^^Should have been a cast iron investment, money is locked in now for a very long term unless you swap for any scraps that are left.


----------



## AltinD

9714 said:


> can one sponsor someone who is not immediate family?


Very difficult but not impossible. The last time I did it was 2 years ago when I sponsored 2 (brothers) blood relatives.


----------



## AltinD

Wannaberich said:


> How did you convince them to leave Albania for Dubai if only for a while? must have been hard?


I just told them it's a nice weather now and there are not many annoying tourists or wannabes around :lol:


----------



## AltinD

9714 said:


> Probably realised 250dhs is not much of a security deposit... unfortunately for those who earn little, it is v difficult to sponsor anyone...


That 250 was for two persons and included the handling fees and sumbimission charge to Airport. The visa cost was just 100 AED (+ additional 100 if urgent)


----------



## AltinD

DanMs said:


> I don't see why somebody should leave Albania for a desert city. Who was once a third world country.
> 
> When price of oil will go down, AltinD will be back home. :lol:


Oh please, you have no idea so are not in any position to conclude anything valuable ... 

FYI when I came here the price of oil was just $10 for barrel :lol:


----------



## worldsignia

" can one sponsor someone who is not immediate family?"



AltinD said:


> Very difficult



@ 9714, if you or your family members are so "unlucky", living in developed countries but still needing visa for UAE/Dubai etc., (i just cannot understand this kind of thinking but there we go!) 
Unless you stay in a hotel or so (who would be the sponsor of your stay in Dubai or UAE) not an easy way to sponsor some one who´s not your family.


----------



## Wannaberich

AltinD said:


> I just told them it's a nice weather now and there are not many annoying tourists or wannabes around :lol:



Plus you reminded them of what Albania is like :naughty:


----------



## 9714

i have sponsored both friends and family in the past. the last time was about beginning of last year. just wanted to know what the current situation is. last i heard you could sponsor direct family but not friends.

@worldsignia. sorry, i dont understand your post. perhaps, you misunderstood mine. The issue, to the best of my knowledge, is not with family but with visas for friends.


----------



## AltinD

No, you can't sponsor friends, but relatives is difficult but can be possible and subject to superior officers approval.


----------



## AltinD

Wannaberich said:


> Plus you reminded them of what Albania is like :naughty:


Like Spain?


----------



## bizzybonita

^^ we need to add in that pix some Olive Oil Ranch then italy will be ! simple


----------



## worldsignia

@ 9714
i think i understood you well, just wanted to say that visa for family & within hotel resort are not that complicated to obtain as visa for friends.
Simples


----------



## Wannaberich

AltinD said:


> Like Spain?


*Errrr,Spain*










*Albania*


----------



## 9714

worldsignia said:


> @ 9714
> i think i understood you well, just wanted to say that visa for family & within hotel resort are not that complicated to obtain as visa for friends.
> Simples


exactamundo!


----------



## 9714

AltinD said:


> No, you can't sponsor friends, but relatives is difficult but can be possible and subject to superior officers approval.


cheers


----------



## Wannaberich

Wannaberich said:


> Taking into account most units in Dubai are brought by investors?,coupled with the fact it is fairly hard to find tenants,is it an advantage to sell a unit with a tenant already in place especially if there are regular rental payments due?


Anyone?

Also,so long as you don't need the money up front is it not better to let the tenant pay with more cheques so in return you can charge a higher fee
or give them a choice,ie:

80.000aed-12 cheques
75.000aed-6 cheques
70.000aed-4 cheques
60-65.000aed-1 cheque


----------



## Wannaberich

P.S What is the average % charge for property management?


----------



## Wannaberich

------------


----------



## iownyou

wow we are in the world tour!!!!!!!!!!!!!! albania seems nice lol. a nice piece of.........


----------



## iownyou

isent this funny?









Gulf economy to grow 6.2 per cent in 2010: EFG Hermes 
http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/11/Pages/Gulfeconomytogrow62percentin2010EFGHermes.aspx


Saudi economy to shrink more before recovering next year 
http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1122009_75fbf2fa1e0a49e08db1acfd70eb55c6.aspx


UAE economy to grow 1.5%
http://gulfnews.com/business/economy/uae-economy-to-grow-1-5-1.526846


can they make they mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??? is it going to grow to srink or what???? looool


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai Marina most searched for online location*

One bedroom apartment in Dubai Marina have proven to be the most popular real estate options among online buyers, according research by an online property web portal.

‘New Dubai’ is still proving to be popular with those surfing on the propertyfinder.ae online portal between July and September 2009.

Data showed that Dubai Marina topped the popularity rankings, receiving over ten percent of direct queries. Jumeirah Lake Towers, International City, Palm Jumeirah, The Springs and Jumeirah Beach Residences were following in hot pursuit.

The website said that three out of four of those using the site’s search facility found that location was “of great importance when looking to buy a property in Dubai” however price appeared to be less of a critical factor, with most casting a wide search and putting their upper price limit as dhs2.5 million.

Over half were opting for apartment, even though “apartments are on average riskier asset class in Dubai,” according to Jesse Downs, director of research and advisory services at Landmark Advisory.

The data also showed that buyers were most interested in one-bedroom units. Downs agreed with this, adding that one and two-bedroom units have proven to be most stable of all unit-types.

In the rental market, Dubai Marina was again the number one area of choice, followed by the Greens, Jumeirah Lake Towers, Jumeirah Beach Residence, International City and Palm Jumeirah.

Most tenants were willing to pay up to *dhs80,000*, with two-bedroom apartments proving to be the most searched for unit type.

However, Leah James, manager of residential sales and leasing at Better Homes, said that this was overly optimistic as most two bedroom apartments in the marina area were renting for *between dhs110,000 and dhs120,000 *a year.


----------



## DanMs

AltinD said:


> Oh please, you have no idea so are not in any position to conclude anything valuable ...
> 
> FYI when I came here the price of oil was just $10 for barrel :lol:



Was that when Dubai had camels? Anyways price of oil is likely to increase in the future. But i wonder how this country will generate revenue when it plummets down.


----------



## agod

Thanks Imre, always on the spot. 

I think we should get a petition together to the Dubai government.

Asking them, that for your complete photographic documentation and record of the rise and construction of Dubai, you should be honoured in some way.
and that thy should award you an honoury permanent visa, for your outstanding work.

Basically they like handed out awards, and you should get one, and it should come with the right to abode in this place, if you want it that is. 

Alan


----------



## Freestyler

DanMs said:


> Was that when Dubai had camels? Anyways price of oil is likely to increase in the future. But i wonder how this country will generate revenue when it plummets down.


No that was in 2000. And it was under $40 till 2006.


----------



## DanMs

Freestyler said:


> No that was in 2000. And it was under $40 till 2006.


Price has never been $10 even during the crises in the 70s. Are you talking about the local price[subsidized] oil? 

We know you got enough oil to burn around for now. That's precisely what i'm saying.

My question then, how's UAE going to support itself when oil does not generate as much revenue?


----------



## TMZ

regarding my last posts,


there is real estate company called Almasah International Real Estate , they have dozens of developments under construction and they say they will swap my property with one of there's,

heres how it works , payments made towards current project moved to new project of there company, 5 % fee of balance payment and remainder of new balance to be paid in 1.5 to 4 years.

what do you guys think


----------



## Imre

They have anything U/C ?

KPM Tower,My Tower,Dolce Vita etc.. everything ON HOLD


----------



## AltinD

DanMs said:


> Was that when Dubai had camels? Anyways price of oil is likely to increase in the future. But i wonder how this country will generate revenue when it plummets down.





DanMs said:


> Price has never been $10 even during the crises in the 70s. Are you talking about the local price[subsidized] oil?
> 
> We know you got enough oil to burn around for now. That's precisely what i'm saying.
> 
> My question then, how's UAE going to support itself when oil does not generate as much revenue?


You have no clue, we already got that ... so why are you trying so hard to comply to the stereotype and portraying yourself as something far worse? :dunno: 

And since you have no commercial interests in town, just stay out ... ok?!


----------



## iownyou

DanMs said:


> Price has never been $10 even during the crises in the 70s. Are you talking about the local price[subsidized] oil?
> 
> We know you got enough oil to burn around for now. That's precisely what i'm saying.
> 
> My question then, how's UAE going to support itself when oil does not generate as much revenue?


i hope it wont look as bad as your country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## AltinD

iownyou said:


> i hope it wont look as bad as your country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Which despite what he writes under "location" is the same as yours. :|


----------



## Hanna

*Jumeirah Lake Towers - One more Dubai Property Disaster*

Jumeirah Lake Towers - One more Dubai Property Disaster - Homes promised in 2007 won`t be ready before 2011

Dubai: Investors who paid as much as Dh1.7 million for apartments in a residential tower said they are no closer to moving in though the project should have been completed two years back.Three 40-storey buildings at Jumeirah Lake Towers two residential towers and a business tower -- were due to be completed in 2007, but buyers have now been told that the buildings won't be ready before 2011.
They claimed that the developer Al Attar Properties altered the original plans from two-bedroom apartments to one-bedroom plus a study and changed the views they wanted. An official from Al Attar Propertiessaid the delays have been due to problems with regulations and reassured investors that construction work would begin "in four weeks' time". Mohammad Makram, an Egyptian national, said he is one of 60 investors affected and is currently forced to rent as well as pay off a bank loan that he took for the apartment.He bought a Dh1 million freehold two-bedroom apartment in 2007 and was originally told it would be completed at the end of that year.
Sherif Atef, an Egyptian expat, who spent Dh1.7 million on a two-bedroom apartment in the Vista Del Lago tower, said: "It's been so frustrating since I bought the apartment in August 2008. I don't think we'll see the money again." 
"We have taken independent experts to the area and they said that there is no way a 40-storey building will be ready by 2011 and that's even if they start work right away," Makram said.He added that the group decided to wait for a change in the law in the new year before moving court. "My life has been on hold for two years. I had been planning to get married but that'll be delayed as I don't know where we may be living," he said.Many investors have been de-manding their money back but Al Attar Properties has been refusing, Makram added.


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai developers Cirrus and Kaizen disappear - Investors worried*

original source Construction Week Online Dubai, 14 November 2009

Confusion has broken out over the whereabouts of international real estate firms Cirrus Developments and Kaizen Developments.
Both developers are responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars worth of developments in Dubai and across the region, including Cirrus’ Aquarius Gate in the Waterfront area, and Kaizen’s Equinox Residences at Palm Jebel Ali.Websites for the companies are no longer active, while phone numbers listed on their brochures have not connected.Cirrus Developments had been developing Celestial Heights – a mixed-use project of three towers, in the Downtown Jebel Ali master development, but the project is now being looked after by a firm called Catalyst Project Consultants, Construction Week has learned. “Cirrus was part of phase one of Celestial Heights, then the owners appointed Catalyst,” Catalyst Project Consultants’ director Israr Ahmed told CW.“Cirrus have downsized and moved offices, but they handed over all work related to the project over a two month period.” Ahmed also said that Catalyst was “not at all” related to Cirrus Developments but it did have links to Kaizen Developments whose logo featured on early Celestial Heights marketing materials.
The last number he had for Cirrus could not be connected.Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) confirmed to CW that a developer by the name of Kaizen One Investment Limited was an approved developer, but the phone number it had registered for Kaizen now belongs to a general trading company.Significantly, the registered website that Rera had for Kaizen One Investment Limited was www.cirrusdevelopments.com, which is now defunct.Construction Week eventually managed to reach Cirrus Developments’ brokerage number where a receptionist said: “Due to the [financial] crisis, we have suspended the brokerage”, but insisted that despite not appearing on Rera’s list of approved developers, the development side of the company was still in operation.Both public relations firms which represented Kaizen and Cirrus in the past confirmed that they were no longer their clients.Kaizen Developments is unreachable.

Do you work for Kaizen or Cirrus? Have you invested in their projects or have you worked on their projects?


----------



## Wannaberich

'Jumeirah Lake Towers - One more Dubai Property Disaster'
'Dubai developers Cirrus and Kaizen disappear - Investors worried'

So anyone out there across the world with money to invest,you know where to come--not.
Sahme on you Sheik Mo


----------



## True Blue

^^You keep blaming the Sheikh for other peoples apparent stupidity!

I don't want to appear cruel or heartless but there is an old saying, "a fool and his money are easily parted".

One of the companies had not even started and were claiming they would have this massive development finished by the end of the year. They were clearly lying into their faces, why did they then hand over money? If it sounds too good to be true then it generally always is. How many people did any research before paying and signing? 

There are respectable developers still around and they should not be tarnished with the same brush as these lying crooks.


----------



## tehsin123

Wannaberich said:


> 'Jumeirah Lake Towers - One more Dubai Property Disaster'
> 'Dubai developers Cirrus and Kaizen disappear - Investors worried'
> Sahme on you Sheik Mo


Unless government guarantees investors' protection, who would feel safe? How do we say that market will be back UP next year?


----------



## True Blue

tehsin123 said:


> Unless government guarantees investors' protection, who would feel safe? How do we say that market will be back UP next year?


The market is real now and based on ready properties or in some cases nearly ready. There is practically no market for off plans.

An unknown developer will not be able to enter the market again and sell off plan because everyone is wiser now after the event.


----------



## moscowboy

Wannaberich said:


> 'Jumeirah Lake Towers - One more Dubai Property Disaster'
> 'Dubai developers Cirrus and Kaizen disappear - Investors worried'
> 
> So anyone out there across the world with money to invest,you know where to come--not.
> Sahme on you Sheik Mo


Bernie Madoff cheated investors $56 Billion in NY. Shame on you Barak Obama!


----------



## True Blue

moscowboy said:


> Bernie Madoff cheated investors $56 Billion in NY. Shame on you Barak Obama!


:applause: Best comeback of the year:lol:



tehsin123 said:


> Unless government guarantees investors' protection, who would feel safe?


Does any other government guarantee investors in real estate and stockmarket? Certainly not USA where there has been more lost in real estate and investment than the rest of the world combined. BTW Sheikh Mohammed was rumoured to have lost much of his wealth through American investments.


----------



## Imre

Wannaberich said:


> 'Jumeirah Lake Towers - One more Dubai Property Disaster'
> 'Dubai developers Cirrus and Kaizen disappear - Investors worried'
> 
> So anyone out there across the world with money to invest,you know where to come--not.
> Sahme on you Sheik Mo


He cant do anything with this , the big companies also failed (Nakheel,Emaar, Omniyat etc.. ) and most of investors will loose money.

Also just have a look the Jumeirah Village , Dubai Sports City, City of Arabia etc.. many small "noname" developers have done nothing since 2006-2007 , no way to finish many projects there.

This is an investment without guarantee same like the stock and money market.

If you want to be safe position just buy government fund .


----------



## Dubai_Steve

(PRWEB) November 14, 2009 -- With the recession almost out of sight, global investors, from the bourgeois to high net worth investors are keenly eyeing Dubai for real estate investments, given the Emirate’s phase of "relative stability" in prices and affordable housing. 

In a positive upturn, the latest results from the Dubai House Price Index from Colliers, indicates that real estate prices in Dubai have risen almost 7% in the third quarter of this year from the previous quarter. ‘The results indicate a bounce in the market and is an indication of an excellent recovery, says Mr. Tej Kohli, visionary, real estate investor and founder of Ozone Real Estate. 

As a long-term analyst in real estate, Mr. Kohli is of the opinion that stability in real estate prices is set to be steady from this point on. Given the fact that real estate prices are moving towards more reasonable levels, now is the time to strike the iron as the market enters a new stage that will help the transition into reformation. 

The most encouraging sign in the Colliers report shows that transactions increased by 64% in the third quarter. To add to the rising real estate boom will be a host of new launches and openings within the emirate. By mid-December this year, the world’s tallest tower, Rose Rayhaan, is all set to have a gala opening, which will dot the luminous skyline along Shaikh Zayed Road. Following shortly, the five-star Jebel Ali Golf Resort and Spa will re-open after a comprehensive renovation. 

Kohli opines, “With a host of projects slated to launch along with the opening of a spanking new airport, Dubai has plenty on its plate to silence the critics and welcome its investors.” 

In addition, a slew of high end hotels including The Conrad Hotel Dubai and a second Ritz Carlton are also on track for an early 2010 opening. The Palazzo Versace Resort and new hotels opening on the crescent-shaped The Palm Jumeirah in 2010 include the five-star Ottoman Palace by Rixos boasting the world's largest Turkish bath will follow immediately. Close on its heels will be the launch of the five-star Royal Amwaj Resort & Spa, which will bring in a touch of the sparkling Indian Ocean to Dubai with its water villas. 

The much-awaited Jumeirah Golf Estates will start operating in late 2009 and 2010 as Dubai's prime golf-themed real estate evolution. Moreover, a half an hour drive from Dubai International Airport, Tiger Wood's Al Ruwaya resort is also set to commence in 2010, boasting of an 18-hole championship course. 

"The slew of launches goes to show that Dubai is well on track; with global visitor numbers up four per cent for the first half of 2009 compared to the same period last year,"

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/...-poised-to-shine-on-global-cues,1045397.shtml


----------



## HappyLarry

Wannaberich said:


> 'Jumeirah Lake Towers - One more Dubai Property Disaster'
> 'Dubai developers Cirrus and Kaizen disappear - Investors worried'
> 
> So anyone out there across the world with money to invest,you know where to come--not.
> Sahme on you Sheik Mo


Must be that time of the month for your periodic rant.
hno:


----------



## cayman1

We wont new laws against fraud if no money bye bye and exact time for on hold before cancelled ,to rehave our moneyhno:


----------



## TMZ

Imre said:


> They have anything U/C ?
> 
> KPM Tower,My Tower,Dolce Vita etc.. everything ON HOLD



really? they have everything on hold?

iam really reluctant to do anything anyways without having a lawyer present with me from begining of talks to end of talks. The developer says they have "over 30 projects started"

below is e-mail from developer sent to me take a look and tell me what you all think


SWAPPING



Introduction


As we are well aware, after the global financial crisis hit the Dubai economy, many real estate projects have been cancelled. Almasah International Real Estate Development LLC is a multifaceted development and Real Estate firm. We have many projects in the works, with 27 under construction in Dubai Marina, Sports City, Jumeirah Village, and The Palm Jebel Ali.



Currently we are in the process of sapping property from those cancelled projects, or projects that are no hold, to our own projects which are currently under construction. This creates a win / win situation for both parties.



The main arguments why an end user would swap their property are as follows:

1. The current developer has run away and money is considered gone.
2. The current project has not started any stage of development but still the clients are receiving notice to pay according to payment schedule. And even cancellation threatening.
3. Lack of confidence in the current developer 



Swapping Process summarized



The end user that wishes to make use of the swapping procedure has to prove that he’s the owner of the former unit, and have all receipts and proof of payment available.



1. We accept the amount paid as payment towards the new unit and based on the receipts deduct the amount paid from our total selling price.
2. The sale of the new unit takes place.
3. The power of attorney is signed by the end user where it is stated that the end user gives the power of attorney to the new developer regarding the old unit.
4. SPA is issued.
5. OQOOD Registration takes place.
6. End user goes further with the new developer. 


How does it go in details?


I. First of all, all the client documents of the old unit need to be original documents.

II. The client makes a decision for which unit in Dubai he/she would like to do the swapping for according to the several proposal done by the sales agents of Almasah.

III. These proposals can only be made after receiving the details of the old units. Mainly, what are the old unit area, old unit price and total amount paid? (See example of the calculations as below)

IV. When the proposal is made and the unit is chosen then the booking fee or at least 5% of the remaining balance of the selling price is paid.

V. The remaining selling price is the amount that remains after deduction of the amount paid Ajman (or the place).

VI. In case the booking fee has been given only then within a few the 5% needs to be paid.

VII. After payment of 5% the reservation form is created together with the payment plan and credit / debit memo. In the reservation form and the payment plan is stated that an amount is credited for the client coming from the old unit.

VIII. An exchange agreement is signed for the swapping between the client and Almasah.

IX. The SPA (Sales & Purchase Agreement) shall also be provided but this takes at least a week. After receiving this agreements then all the

X. Also, the unit must be registered at RERA Land Department against a fee of AED 5,000.

XI. From this point the client is no longer client with the old developer. So no obligations or liabilities towards the old developer.

XII. Almasah, because of the exchange agreement, has now taken the place of the client and shall negotiate with the old developer to regain the credit. This is al in legal way and under the Laws of Dubai. Of course. Almasah has already itself that there is a big change that only a certain % of the credit can be retrieved, but this is not the worry of the client.

XIII. Almasah is currently the only company in Dubai that received an approval from the Land Department for the swapping. The Official letter shall be ready within approx. one week.


Example of Calculation (Differs according to area and unit type)


* A client purchased an Ajman a one bedroom apartment with 1,000 sq. ft. area.
* The price of the unit was AED 500,000.
* The amount paid towards the unit was AED 100,000
* Now the client purchases the same type of apartment in Jumeirah Village with also 1,000 sq. ft. area.
* Assumed that the selling price for this apartment shall be AED 700,000
* After deducting the paid amount of AED 100,000 the remaining amount of AED 600,000 is the balance which the client is liable for to pay.
* Payment plans can be according to construction (RERA payment plan) or flexible inhouse finance payment plan (3 to 5 years).


----------



## bumblinloon

*PR EMI interest*

Hi Alla, 

I have a few friends who are in the same situation. My mortgage is with DIB and I don't pay the accrued interest until handover. The amount is 35300/aed. I called DIB and asked them if the amount will increase due to the delay, they said no because its the developers fault that the project is delayed. That I believe is Sharia law,my friends are paying ADCB each month as well.


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Notice how these deals _always_ involve the buyer having to fork out more cash.


----------



## Imre

*"We have many projects in the works, with 27 under construction in Dubai Marina, Sports City, Jumeirah Village, and The Palm Jebel Ali."*

Palm Jebel Ali is ON HOLD, there is no construction at all...


Ok, just have a look their website :

http://www.almasahint.com/

Click the properties after you can see the projects and photos. (amazing progress everywhere , the best on is the Sahara Livings, 1st floor done  )

Honestly, I wouldnt pay a single dirham for them !

They have done great job , created some websites and collected money but no progress.

http://www.mytowerdubai.com/

http://www.saharaliving.com/

http://www.chesstowerdubai.com/ 

etc...

Where was the launch their projects , 2006, 2007 ??


----------



## Imre

TMZ said:


> XIII. Almasah is currently the only company in Dubai that received an approval from the Land Department for the swapping. The Official letter shall be ready within approx. one week.


this is rubbish, I had a swap deal (and my friend also) and we didnt have any approval from the Land Department.

It seems a trick for me, doesnt mind what kind of apartment do you have , they need the 5 % only ?


----------



## Imre

*Residential construction costs down 71% *

November 15, 2009 

Mid-range residential construction prices (core and shell) dropped by as much as 71 per cent to Dh350 per sq ft in 2009 from its average highs of Dh600 per sq ft in 2008, according to an industry survey by Emirates Business. 

Moreover, margins have dropped by three-five per cent in the industry. A senior official said that it was a "strategic drop" based on the need for the contractor to feature it in his project portfolio and not just dictated by a drop in the prices of building materials.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1152009_d5d2dec5b96c406594d8b4985e3d6403.aspx


----------



## TMZ

Imre said:


> this is rubbish, I had a swap deal (and my friend also) and we didnt have any approval from the Land Department.
> 
> It seems a trick for me, doesnt mind what kind of apartment do you have , they need the 5 % only ?


they say 5 percent of amount left from current contract, so for example if u have 400,000 to pay than they want 5 % of that 400K AED

i have to admit imre it does seem fishy, also the poor spelling in the e-mails the developer sent makes me wonder, for example they call law low and they call escrow account Ascrow account. For the part where they say there the only one that has approval i find this hard to believe, if anything emarr and nakheel should have had this approval since there owned by the government and all Sheikh Mo's buddies. btw which swapping company did you use? 

heres reply to my e-mail just received

Doing swapping we help people transfer their money from cancelled or delayed projects to our projects which are in process and get new unit in 1 or 1.5 year. We do care about our clients’ interests.



Regarding negotiation with company, it is issue of our lower and Legal Department of our company.



Our projects in Jumeirah Village are G+4 or G+16, we have not skyscrapers in JV, in Dubai Marina all units sold out.



Regarding our payment plan, for example, If you would like to transfer 100,000 AED to our project, which selling price 500,000 AED, we deduct 100,000 AED and rest amount- 400,000 AED you have to pay during 5 years. First, you have to pay 5% booking deposit from 400,000 AED, after two month - 5 %, and rest 90 % until end of 2014, all your money is transferring to ASCROW Account which we have for all of our projects.



Kindly send to me copy of first page of your contract and exactly amount which was paid. And If you like I will send you just one sample of our units and payment plan.


----------



## Imre

ok, I know what is the trick.

e.g. 

1.you have something ("nothing" ) in Ajman which will be never built because the developer gone or just they have no money

2.they have many projects around Dubai , e.g.JV

they dont care about what you have because for your "nothing" you will have their "nothing" but they ask 5% which is the profit..

What are they doing with your property in Ajman? 

nothing because they wont be built anything , just keep few workers everywhere and get the 5 %'s..

not too bad business 

I saw many adverts in the Gulfnews about swap Ajman/Dubai properties , probably the same trick.


----------



## TMZ

Imre said:


> ok, I know what is the trick.
> 
> e.g.
> 
> 1.you have something ("nothing" ) in Ajman which will be never built because the developer gone or just they have no money
> 
> 2.they have many projects around Dubai , e.g.JV
> 
> they dont care about what you have because for your "nothing" you will have their "nothing" but they ask 5% which is the profit..
> 
> What are they doing with your property in Ajman?
> 
> nothing because they wont be built anything , just keep few workers everywhere and get the 5 %'s..
> 
> not too bad business
> 
> I saw many adverts in the Gulfnews about swap Ajman/Dubai properties , probably the same trick.



or maybe what there doing is trying to generate money which they dont currently have to continue projects, its very complicated it seems. I wouldent do it anyways unless I was 100% sure with my own eyes what iam investing in has at least 5 floors built, never ever again will I purchase a property just by paper, i'll rather pay 100,000 AED premium for something that is built or under real construction, this dubai realestate sector is bull shit comapared to north america


----------



## iownyou

moscowboy said:


> Bernie Madoff cheated investors $56 Billion in NY. Shame on you Barak Obama!


:applause::applause::applause::applause:

people in america cheat other people everyday it happens so much they dont even put it on the new.
how many people have been arested by FBI since the biggining of the crisses
for inside trading or other things ? hundreds if not thousends


----------



## Imre

TMZ said:


> or maybe what there doing is trying to generate money which they dont currently have to continue projects, its very complicated it seems. I wouldent do it anyways unless I was 100% sure with my own eyes what iam investing in has at least 5 floors built, never ever again will I purchase a property just by paper, i'll rather pay 100,000 AED premium for something that is built or under real construction, this dubai realestate sector is bull shit comapared to north america


Which project do you want to swap?

And what do you think what will they do with your project after?


----------



## iownyou

Imre said:


> ok, I know what is the trick.
> 
> e.g.
> 
> 1.you have something ("nothing" ) in Ajman which will be never built because the developer gone or just they have no money
> 
> 2.they have many projects around Dubai , e.g.JV
> 
> they dont care about what you have because for your "nothing" you will have their "nothing" but they ask 5% which is the profit..
> 
> What are they doing with your property in Ajman?
> 
> nothing because they wont be built anything , just keep few workers everywhere and get the 5 %'s..
> 
> not too bad business
> 
> I saw many adverts in the Gulfnews about swap Ajman/Dubai properties , probably the same trick.


but then they will run out of money again how can they maintain the workers?
they are buying time for something


----------



## Wannaberich

Imre said:


> He cant do anything with this , the big companies also failed (Nakheel,Emaar, Omniyat etc.. ) and most of investors will loose money.
> 
> Also just have a look the Jumeirah Village , Dubai Sports City, City of Arabia etc.. many small "noname" developers have done nothing since 2006-2007 , no way to finish many projects there.
> 
> This is an investment without guarantee same like the stock and money market.
> 
> If you want to be safe position just buy government fund .


There is an opportunity for the Sheik and the Dubai goverment to score some points and maybe get back some investor confidence so that buyers return.
By that I mean they should make developers return all they money to investors which they have received for projects that have not started and probably never will.They should also be working flat out to bring to justice the crooks.Otherwise in the future
it will be very hard to sell anything off-plan in Dubai.Only completed will be worth anything.


----------



## Imre

iownyou said:


> but then they will run out of money again how can they maintain the workers?
> they are buying time for something


what is the cost keeping 10-20 workers? 20.000 AED/month , if they find only 1 bird, already covered


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> ok, I know what is the trick.
> 
> e.g.
> 
> 1.you have something ("nothing" ) in Ajman which will be never built because the developer gone or just they have no money
> 
> 2.they have many projects around Dubai , e.g.JV
> 
> they dont care about what you have because for your "nothing" you will have their "nothing" but they ask 5% which is the profit..
> 
> What are they doing with your property in Ajman?
> 
> nothing because they wont be built anything , just keep few workers everywhere and get the 5 %'s..
> 
> not too bad business
> 
> I saw many adverts in the Gulfnews about swap Ajman/Dubai properties , probably the same trick.


You forgot that you will have to pay the developer some stage payments because they are *all under construction*:lol: So they collect the money you would have otherwise given to the Ajman project.

Big Scam! Steer clear or your pockets will be completely empty.


----------



## dubaiprojects

*hi imre*

Imre, you have explained a lot about swap deals. I have a friend who bough 1 bed in Ajman (gold crest smart towers). However he was told that they got the approved plot from the gov. However they are also giving choices (the developer itself - giga group-goldcrest) that my friend can exchange his flat with a 1 bed in DSO project (not yet announced). What do you think going on here? If the amrt towers is not canceled why the swap offer?

Cheers


----------



## True Blue

Wannaberich said:


> There is an opportunity for the Sheik and the Dubai goverment to score some points and maybe get back some investor confidence so that buyers return.
> By that I mean they should make developers return all they money to investors which they have received for projects that have not started and probably never will.They should also be working flat out to bring to justice the crooks.Otherwise in the future
> it will be very hard to sell anything off-plan in Dubai.Only completed will be worth anything.


The developers can not return the money as it is more likely spent. All businesses have overheads, costs and commissions.

If you think the Sheikh is obliged to bail out private venture developers before his own goverment interest companies, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. 

Dubai owes Billions to contractors who have carried out work for the betterment of Dubai, these contractors will have priority over the developers who came to line their own pockets without giving a shit for Dubai or it's reputation.

Dubai clearly has serious cash flow issues at the moment and it will take time to sort out. If you have lost money through investing in a private unknown developer then you are on your own. Remember that there is no tax on property so DXB inc. will not have benefited from your speculation.


----------



## iownyou

Wannaberich said:


> There is an opportunity for the Sheik and the Dubai goverment to score some points and maybe get back some investor confidence so that buyers return.
> By that I mean they should make developers return all they money to investors which they have received for projects that have not started and probably never will.They should also be working flat out to bring to justice the crooks.Otherwise in the future
> it will be very hard to sell anything off-plan in Dubai.Only completed will be worth anything.


there is only 1 thing guaranteed in this life that is death
no one can guarantee anything. even the goverment bonds could be a loss if the goverment collapsess not even having money in a bank account is safe because banks are failing in america over 1000 banks have fallen since last year safest place is dig a hole in the ground and out your moneyin a safe and bury it and i am sure it wont move


----------



## True Blue

^^Wrong!!

Safest place is with me, I'll take good care of it


----------



## dubaiprojects

*hi*



iownyou said:


> there is only 1 thing guaranteed in this life that is death
> no one can guarantee anything. even the goverment bonds could be a loss if the goverment collapsess not even having money in a bank account is safe because banks are failing in america over 1000 banks have fallen since last year safest place is dig a hole in the ground and out your moneyin a safe and bury it and i am sure it wont move


I think there is one guarantee that I know of and have meself experienced it.
i.e. charity in the right way to the right deserving people and make sure of it, not just give it and throw your hands off. Like taking care of orphans or educating a child or similar responsibilities.

If you spend a good part of money on good deeds, no matter what happens around you, you will always be blessed with ways to increase your financial wealth and believe me unseens doors will open, am sure we all are doing it already, so we are still here and still standing.

Cheers


----------



## Wannaberich

HappyLarry said:


> Must be that time of the month for your periodic rant.
> hno:


Must be you're full of c...


----------



## Wannaberich

True Blue said:


> If you think the Sheikh is obliged to bail out private venture developers before his own goverment interest companies, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.


Sorry did I say Sheiky is 'obliged'?Nope.
No prob,let the Dubai gov do zilch to protect investors now and in the future,then see all that potential investor money go elsewhere.
Personally I'd be happy with that so as there's no more off-plan and no oversuppy.I'v got completed properties so thats cool for me.


----------



## TMZ

Imre said:


> Which project do you want to swap?
> 
> And what do you think what will they do with your project after?




no specific project, just looking at all choices at the moment, the court system is in the shit right now so thats out of the question, only other 3 choices are forget about the money paid, wait and pray construction starts or swap and maybe lose more money.

I had a friend actually go through the process of doing this and he seems satisfied, I wont do anything as I said untill 5+ floors are built in the swap project


they say the project which i have now is " there problem" apparently off the record they mentioned to my friend that all developers in dubai are part of the royal family so they know how they can get the money back with there lawyers , very weird....


----------



## iownyou

dubaiprojects said:


> I think there is one guarantee that I know of and have meself experienced it.
> i.e. charity in the right way to the right deserving people and make sure of it, not just give it and throw your hands off. Like taking care of orphans or educating a child or similar responsibilities.
> 
> If you spend a good part of money on good deeds, no matter what happens around you, you will always be blessed with ways to increase your financial wealth and believe me unseens doors will open, am sure we all are doing it already, so we are still here and still standing.
> 
> Cheers


you must be muslim mashalla


----------



## iownyou

True Blue said:


> ^^Wrong!!
> 
> Safest place is with me, I'll take good care of it


can i have your full name
your passport number
your account number(where to wire the money)
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
ohh i am not from nigeria dont worry


----------



## Mistermark

TMZ said:


> they say 5 percent of amount left from current contract, so for example if u have 400,000 to pay than they want 5 % of that 400K AED
> 
> i have to admit imre it does seem fishy, also the poor spelling in the e-mails the developer sent makes me wonder, for example they call law low and they call escrow account Ascrow account. For the part where they say there the only one that has approval i find this hard to believe, if anything emarr and nakheel should have had this approval since there owned by the government and all Sheikh Mo's buddies. btw which swapping company did you use?
> 
> heres reply to my e-mail just received
> 
> Doing swapping we help people transfer their money from cancelled or delayed projects to our projects which are in process and get new unit in 1 or 1.5 year. We do care about our clients’ interests.
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding negotiation with company, it is issue of our lower and Legal Department of our company.
> 
> 
> 
> Our projects in Jumeirah Village are G+4 or G+16, we have not skyscrapers in JV, in Dubai Marina all units sold out.
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding our payment plan, for example, If you would like to transfer 100,000 AED to our project, which selling price 500,000 AED, we deduct 100,000 AED and rest amount- 400,000 AED you have to pay during 5 years. First, you have to pay 5% booking deposit from 400,000 AED, after two month - 5 %, and rest 90 % until end of 2014, all your money is transferring to ASCROW Account which we have for all of our projects.
> 
> 
> 
> Kindly send to me copy of first page of your contract and exactly amount which was paid. And If you like I will send you just one sample of our units and payment plan.


OK, here's what I think is going on:

1. They have an off-plan apartment in Dubai worth 400k
2. They tell you it's worth 500k
3. They tell you they'll discount it by 100k to reflect what you've already paid on a project in Ajman
4. If you're very lucky, they might just write to the Ajman developer taking on responsibility for any further payments in the unlikely event that the projects gets built. Otherwise, they wipe their a***s with your contract, and the original developer still comes after you down the line
5. If you're really, really lucky, they build the project in Dubai and you one day get the keys to an apartment. If not, you just make some more staged payments, this time against a failed project in Dubai, rather than Ajman.

I don't see any way round it, in Dubai and the minor Emirates you'd have to be desperate to buy anything offplan. Going down that route as a way out of a previous disaster in Ajman is good money after bad.


----------



## MANUTD

Mistermark said:


> OK, here's what I think is going on:
> 
> 1. They have an off-plan apartment in Dubai worth 400k
> 2. They tell you it's worth 500k
> 3. They tell you they'll discount it by 100k to reflect what you've already paid on a project in Ajman
> 4. If you're very lucky, they might just write to the Ajman developer taking on responsibility for any further payments in the unlikely event that the projects gets built. Otherwise, they wipe their a***s with your contract, and the original developer still comes after you down the line
> 5. If you're really, really lucky, they build the project in Dubai and you one day get the keys to an apartment. If not, you just make some more staged payments, this time against a failed project in Dubai, rather than Ajman.
> 
> I don't see any way round it, in Dubai and the minor Emirates you'd have to be desperate to buy anything offplan. Going down that route as a way out of a previous disaster in Ajman is good money after bad.


I suspect the only time a "swap" is real is when someone has defaulted and an enetrprising developer wants someone to take on the rest of that conttract defaulted ? --makes sense then for someone who has funds to carry on that contract -- otherwise this is massive scam and Dubai Inc. need to stamp it out NOW


----------



## Morrismarina

Sounds like another Dubai scam to me, the place is full of 'em.


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## Imre

dubaiprojects said:


> Imre, you have explained a lot about swap deals. I have a friend who bough 1 bed in Ajman (gold crest smart towers). However he was told that they got the approved plot from the gov. However they are also giving choices (the developer itself - giga group-goldcrest) that my friend can exchange his flat with a 1 bed in DSO project (not yet announced). What do you think going on here? If the amrt towers is not canceled why the swap offer?
> 
> Cheers


Did you mean the Goldcrest Dreams 3 or the Goldcrest projects at the Eye of Ajman?

If the Eye of Ayman , its totally out of control , noone knows the situation there , m aster developer is the Boniyan.

I think the Smart Towers still not cancelled but going to be a huge delays.

Maybe people still trust in the Giga Group thats why the swap deal.


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> The developers can not return the money as it is more likely spent. All businesses have overheads, costs and commissions.


I agree, many developers have no money, running the business is very expensive in Dubai , more than a year left and most of developers had no income they just spent the money.

Also many investors stopped the payments since the market crashed , cashflow failed because it was based by the payment plan.

The biggest problem that in UAE still dont have bankruptcy law so these developers can exist even for 50 years without building anything or refunding the money.


----------



## Imre

TMZ said:


> mentioned to my friend that all developers in dubai are part of the royal family


Honestly, it means nothing, just have a look The Palisades, The Royal Estates etc..


----------



## Spurs

Imre said:


> Honestly, it means nothing, just have a look The Palisades, The Royal Estates etc..


Why do you specifically mention these two projects?


----------



## peacesells

Mistermark said:


> OK, here's what I think is going on:
> 
> 1. They have an off-plan apartment in Dubai worth 400k
> 2. They tell you it's worth 500k
> 3. They tell you they'll discount it by 100k to reflect what you've already paid on a project in Ajman
> 4. If you're very lucky, they might just write to the Ajman developer taking on responsibility for any further payments in the unlikely event that the projects gets built. Otherwise, they wipe their a***s with your contract, and the original developer still comes after you down the line
> 5. If you're really, really lucky, they build the project in Dubai and you one day get the keys to an apartment. If not, you just make some more staged payments, this time against a failed project in Dubai, rather than Ajman.
> 
> I don't see any way round it, in Dubai and the minor Emirates you'd have to be desperate to buy anything offplan. Going down that route as a way out of a previous disaster in Ajman is good money after bad.


Hypothetical situation:

You have a property in Ajman that you bought for 500k and paid only 100k as of now. That property now is worth only 200k due to market drop. You are being offerred a property in Dubai that, according to developer, is worth 600k but because you already paid 100k in Ajman, you get it at 500k. However, the Dubai property is actually worth only 400k on the market, so the numbers here are:

1) Your overall payment: 600k
2) Total worth of Ajman and Dubai property on market today: 200+400 = 600k
3) Ajman developer gets from you another 100k so his total gain is 200k as opposed to 100k that you could have walked away from
4) Dubai developer gets from you 400k which is what their property is 'worth' (this is IF they find a buyer for it).
5) You are 200k down in negative equity with an overpriced Dubai property as opposed to just walking away from 100k. 

Your choices are:

1) Walk away from 100k
2) Keep paying for Ajman property and be down 300k due to market conditions
3) Swap into Dubai and be down 200k due to market conditions

If I was able to go ahead with all 3 options, I'd pick option 1 then use the rest of the money to buy something ready in Dubai. There's plenty of great deals around. 

The numbers will obviously vary but regardless, I'd stay well away from Almasah (based personal experience with their reps and some inside info) or any Ajman/Dubai swap deals for that matter. Unless it is with the same developer and the project you are swapping into is priced according to the market AND well under construction (meaning that superstructure and most of block-work is done).


----------



## peacesells

Spurs said:


> Why do you specifically mention these two projects?


Developers owned by members of royal family.


----------



## Cayman

I have relaibly learned that Saraya Group in RAK (developers behind the Saraya island project in RAK) have fully refunded ALL their investors in CASH, after their projects were put on hold.

This is very significant, as almost all the refunds Dubai investors managed to squeeze out of Emaar and Nakheel for cancelled projects have been in the form of credit notes, which are worth less than half the face value, effectively losing around 50% of the monies they have invested. 

Furthermore, those invested in Saraya project have been given some form of priority status (perhaps the right of first refusal) when the projects resume, thereby rewarding them for the initial faith they placed on the development.

If true, this is a very honest and ethical way of doing business and will help RAK retain its brand name. Unlike its counterpart 100 kms down E311...


----------



## gerald.d

RAK = Ras Al Khaimah.

One of the 7 emirates that make up the UAE


----------



## Imre

peacesells said:


> Developers owned by members of royal family.


Yes, exactly , Sheikh Issa and another Sheiks, am I right?


----------



## Spurs

Imre said:


> Yes, exactly , Sheikh Issa and another Sheiks, am I right?


I googled the above and found this link:

http://www.responsesource.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=28572

which confirms sheikh Issa is very much part of Palisades but no mention of royal estates


----------



## Imre

maybe in that time he was busy with the video


----------



## TerryPop

Imre said:


> maybe in that time he was busy with the video


Oh yes that video was so fucking funny! :cheer:

Not only made me laugh every minute of it, but assured me he would get the right prices for materials etc- which is always a plus as an investor (you wanna know your builder is frugal).

Some people gave a car away, I heard they were giving free prostate diagnosis as well- so innovative... the cars were so passe :rofl:


----------



## TMZ

hey guys, 


the property i wanted to look into swapping was in Dubai not Ajman , JV South to dubai Marina, I would never ever invest in JV south, just a desert with no hope anytime soon. 

seems like iam not going to be doing the swap, too much risk for nothing,


----------



## docc

TerryPop said:


> Oh yes that video was so fucking funny! :cheer:
> 
> Not only made me laugh every minute of it, but assured me he would get the right prices for materials etc- which is always a plus as an investor (you wanna know your builder is frugal).
> 
> Some people gave a car away, I heard they were giving free prostate diagnosis as well- so innovative... the cars were so passe :rofl:


How can you find that video funny? The fact that you think so says a lot about you as a person. Quite disappointing really.


----------



## bizzybonita

Spurs said:


> Why do you specifically mention these two projects?


i guess because those projects already has been started the sales but forget about lyon city and italy city " cancelled " hno:


----------



## DanMs

AltinD said:


> Which despite what he writes under "location" is the same as yours. :|


Wrong. 

How do you for example that i dont alternate b/w two locations.


----------



## iownyou

what is the averege salary for a worker(philipino,indian) in dubai?
as a receptionist or working as casher in a resturant? or a taxi driver? normal jobs not really skilled no education required.

why am i asking this? because i want to compare to america.
america claims to have the biggest economy (GDP) in the world but the truth is most of it is because people live off of credit exaple(true story that happens every day)
a man is born in america he goes to school getting money from his parents and maybe works at mcdonalds or burger king wile in highschool. once they go to college (at a normal college nothing to expensive or fancy) they need to borrow money to go to college to pay for the college. each year it cost averege of $15,000 so for a 4 year college that is $60,000 wile the person is in college he meets a girl he likes her and wants to take her out as a girlfriend but because he has no money to pay to take her to dinner or buy her clothes or buy her a ring he takes money from credit cards to pay for them so he usess lets say about $15,000 in credit cards in those 4 years and since he has no job to pay for the credit card back he pays the minimum payment and that is about $300 per month he askes for that money from hsi parents.
he finishes college and he wants to get merried with the girl so the wedding will cost him $25,000 so now he has $60,000 from college+$15,000 in credit cards from spending on his girlfriend and $25,000 for the worst decision in his life his wedding day=$100,000 they move in together and he must buy a car for him self and her so lets say onother $40,000 they live together for 2 years and wile is that he gets a job making $60,000 per year and his credit card +car loans +student loans he pays $2000 per month and his appartment and living expesess he pays $3000 per month so that is $5000 per month so that is all he makes in a year of work so he can not pay down the loans because he is just paying the interest of the loans not the ballance then he decides to buy a house with her and he spends $400,000 this is ofcourse on a loan so now he is paying litle more then rent so from $3000 per month to lets say $4000 per month .
now he is negative with his bills so he takes the money from one credit card to pay the other credit cards. he is 30 years old and he has about $600,000 in loans and $2000 in his bank account.


this is what happens everyday in america i know it too well because i been dealing with peoples financess and peoples income and peoples lifes for over 10 years now.
but he is able to buy a house.

i was thinking about this today wile i was driving to go see my son and i been thinking of the people who keep the negativity ont his forum and they say how can the filipino man or indian man buy a house in dubai.
first of all not everyone is made to buy a house if this was the case then the few people who have money now are going to be all equal to the rest and so there would be no rich or poor (is god and bad) if everyone could buy a home and it would bring the pricess of homes to nothing because there is alot of demand and ofcourse there would be just as much supply ( this is litle more complicated )
but anyways and there would be no rental market because everyone would buy a home etc. so what is happening in dubai is really good i think.
1-no more building too many buildings so the supply with go down with time
2- less people becoming rich quick so this stabilize the economy because the only people who are left and the people who have a fixed salary and who are there to stay for a long time and not come and make money and leave 
3- most if not all the fake developers gone
4-not everyone can buy a property because of lack of income so it makes the pricess go up but slowly

if a person makes lets say 7500 dhs per month working in dubai as a normal job and he gets merried with a woman who makes the same about of money so is a total of 15000 dhs per month and lets say the food expensess between the 2 of them is 1500 or 2000 per month that is 13,000dhs left over every month
so if they buy them self a studio in international city for exaple for 500,000 dhs ( this is the price i remember it was last year) and the payment should be with my calculation 3859.08 dhs per month that seems very easly done.
unless people dont make so much as 7500 per month then my whole concept is wrong


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Taxi driver, around 3500 to 5000 a month. 800-1000 of that is spent on accommodation (typically 6 to a room) and food, and if he's lucky and doesn't get any fines, the rest will be sent back to his home country.

To put this in perspective, I was chatting to a Pakistani driver last week on the way back from Sharjah airport to JLT. He's not your typical driver as he's married to a Filipina who lives in Abu Dhabi.

He reckoned on doing the job for 7 years, and then he'd have sufficient money saved up to _retire_ back in the Philipines.

Your average shop workers will typically earn from 2.5K up to 4K, depending on the shop and experience.

In my experience, there are very few people earning a wage in Dubai in the 'middle' ground of around 10K to 20K.


----------



## iownyou

gerald.d said:


> ^^ Taxi driver, around 3500 to 5000 a month. 800-1000 of that is spent on accommodation (typically 6 to a room) and food, and if he's lucky and doesn't get any fines, the rest will be sent back to his home country.
> 
> To put this in perspective, I was chatting to a Pakistani driver last week on the way back from Sharjah airport to JLT. He's not your typical driver as he's married to a Filipina who lives in Abu Dhabi.
> 
> He reckoned on doing the job for 7 years, and then he'd have sufficient money saved up to _retire_ back in the Philipines.
> 
> Your average shop workers will typically earn from 2.5K up to 4K, depending on the shop and experience.
> 
> In my experience, there are very few people earning a wage in Dubai in the 'middle' ground of around 10K to 20K.



humm i see then things are tough. but same as america.
a person working as a receptionist makes no more then $10 usd per hour that is $1600 per month gross and take home about $1300 almostimpossible to survive


----------



## Hanna

*KPM Tower payment issue irks investors*

KPM Tower was initially scheduled to be ready by end-2010. (SUPPLIED)


Some investors in KPM Tower, a residential project in Dubai Marina, have claimed that the developer is asking them for more money although they have paid more than 30 per cent of the value of their units.
"We are tired of waiting for the construction to begin. We have paid up to 50 per cent of the amount to the developer, but they keep calling us to ask for more payments. They claim that there is some construction going on, but when we visit the site there is nothing happening there," an investor, who wished to remain anonymous, told Emirates Business.
A Real Estate Regulatory Agency official confirmed that developers cannot ask for more than 30 per cent payment from investors if there is no construction progress on a development.
Hamzah Abu Zannad, Director, Marketing and Operations, Al Masah International Real Estate, said the tower has been delayed by more than a year and they received a new payment plan in May from the agency, and they "shared this with the customers".
Abu Zannad said the 30 per cent payment collected by the developer is to cover preliminary charges, such as land payments, consultant fees, project management fees, land registration, unit registration, foundation contractor payment, etc.
"If the developer is unable to cover such payments from collection, chances are the project will be delayed indefinitely. Some will not appreciate this rule, and these are speculators. Serious investors and developers have stood side-by-side to weather this storm along with the swift action of the government strengthening these ties," he said.
Investors said they are also concerned about the slow progress on the project while the developer is pushing them for payments.
"They even sent out letters to buyers putting a delayed penalty clause of Dh200 per day to be charged to buyers for payment delays," said another investor. "Some of us have paid more than 50 per cent and the developer is asking us to pay more. Also, we are not seeing any progress on the project then why should we pay more?"
Asked why the project was delayed, Abu Zannad said: "We are committed to accelerate construction to compensate for this delay. The project was initially scheduled to be completed by the end of 2010, however, now we anticipate the project to be delivered in the first quarter of 2011. From now, the anticipated time of delivery of the project is 20 to 22 months."
The developer also cited reasons for the delay and said just next to the location of the plot is a Dubai Electricity and Water Authority substation that feeds the entire Dubai Marina.
"For shoring works on the plot we needed a no-objection certificate from Dewa and we had to acquire the necessary approvals for the designs to ensure safety of shoring works and anchoring procedures. Until we reached the final design approval the process took a long time with a number of back and forth communications with Dewa," he said.
He said the developer will compensate investors with the developer's penalty to its investors for the delay in the handover of the tower.
"In all our issued contracts that are approved by the authorities, there is a penalty clause stating a nine per cent per annum fee on my part as a developer and we will pay this accordingly with respect to how much our project is delayed."
Marina Exclusive, the developer of the project, is a subsidiary of Al Masah.
KPM Tower has an escrow account with Badr Al Islami. In February, the project saw an escrow account adjustment from Amlak Finance to Badr Al Islami.Abu Zannad said the KPM Tower is 97 per cent sold out and is not on hold and will not be cancelled.
He said the developer has sat with more than 6,000 of its clients and individually sorted out their issues such as delayed payment plans, transfer of funds, downsizing investments, etc.
"The crisis has affected all people in all segments in several industries, and we believe we have offered many creative solutions that suit all parties," said Abu Zannad.


----------



## shagdash

iownyou said:


> what is the averege salary for a worker(philipino,indian) in dubai?
> as a receptionist or working as casher in a resturant? or a taxi driver? normal jobs not really skilled no education required.


i know banking sector employees working in junior management positions make 10k dhms a month.
accountants get paid 5k-6k dhms a month.
and these are skilled educated people!
private drivers make between 2.5k-3k dhms a month. nursery school teachers make arnd 3k-4k dhms a month (some even get paid 1.5k-2k)


----------



## peacesells

iownyou said:


> if a person makes lets say 7500 dhs per month working in dubai as a normal job and he gets merried with a woman who makes the same about of money so is a total of 15000 dhs per month and lets say the food expensess between the 2 of them is 1500 or 2000 per month that is 13,000dhs left over every month
> so if they buy them self a studio in international city for exaple for 500,000 dhs ( this is the price i remember it was last year) and the payment should be with my calculation 3859.08 dhs per month that seems very easly done.
> unless people dont make so much as 7500 per month then my whole concept is wrong


Here's some numbers for you for a young (lets say western) couple working in Dubai:

Food: 3000 dhs per month for two people. This is with eating out ONCE a week at a decent MALL restaurant (so that would be 120 dhs bill for two).
TV/Internet: 400 dhs per month for two people. Standard channels and a decent connection.
Car payments: 3000 dhs per month for two people. This is for two cars (both low-end Volkswagens)
Fuel: 1000 dhs per month. Consider one is commuting relatively far (100 kms there and back), wheares the other one works close to home. This includes Salik ONCE a day for one person.
Mobile phone: 300 dhs per month considering 5 dhs per day usage (modest).
Water/Electricity: 500 dhs per month if you live in a studio and are careful with your spending.

So yeah, that's BASIC stuff. I'm not including insurance, savings, clothing, sending money to retired parents, gym memberships, there's no pets, no kids, no emergencies. In reality, you need at least 20 grand per month for a young couple with no kids to even consider buying here, more if you have kids. 

And don't forget that you must save up for the down-payment of at least 10-20%, which is basically the number 1 reason why people who qualified for the mortgage couldn't take the leap. Now, it's that plus the fact that the current laws and regulations are a complete mess and the government is going to need one hell of an overhaul and a huge PR campaign to boot in order to restore confidence. As a professional working in property here in UAE, I advice all my friends/relatives to stay the hell away from UAE property for precisely these reasons UNLESS it's an amazing deal on a ready property within a functioning community AND it's for 'investment' (so it's a big no-no if we're talking 'retirement' home) AND the money isn't 'life savings'.


----------



## Wannaberich

gerald.d said:


> .
> In my experience, there are very few people earning a wage in Dubai in the 'middle' ground of around 10K to 20K.


This is such an important point,there are simply not enough people earning this sort of money.Earning this gives you the position to rent or buy one of the zillions of new properties in Dubai which is needed.Also the more wages paid in Dubai the more wages goes back into the economy of Dubai,shops,restaurants etc.Well that would be the case if the people earning that money were westerners,if they were Filipinos,Indians etc most of the money would possibly go back home.
The kind of job that would pay the equilivant of 10-20K in the west,taxi-driver,carpenter etc,in Dubai you earn peanuts.


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> This is such an important point,there are simply not enough people earning this sort of money.Earning this gives you the position to rent or buy one of the zillions of new properties in Dubai which is needed.Also the more wages paid in Dubai the more wages goes back into the economy of Dubai,shops,restaurants etc.Well that would be the case if the people earning that money were westerners,if they were Filipinos,Indians etc most of the money would possibly go back home.
> The kind of job that would pay the equilivant of 10-20K in the west,taxi-driver,carpenter etc,in Dubai you earn peanuts.


The people that DO earn 10-20k per month are predominantly young westerners (20-somethings) who prefer to blow their paychecks on brunches and clubbing and have no intention of buying ANY property (not even in their home country) in their forseable future.


----------



## Porcello

receptionists and shop attendants make around 3000 AED per month. Taxi drivers should make something less, I believe.


----------



## AltinD

Strange how some people say to own properties for rent in Dubai for years, yet have absolutely no idea about salary levels of the people over here.


----------



## baba toto

Has anyone been in contact with DEC to see if building will ever commence? :badnews:


----------



## Imre

Most of people just transit here (1-3 years) they will never buy a property here 

And most of the "non transit" people salary less than 5000 dhs/month so they cant buy a property.

I thought that the construction workers and maids have the worst salary but not... I met people from Africa they get 5-600 dhs/month only.


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> The people that DO earn 10-20k per month are predominantly young westerners (20-somethings) who prefer to blow their paychecks on brunches and clubbing and have no intention of buying ANY property (not even in their home country) in their forseable future.


They might not buy but they have to rent so this would help Dubai.Also all that money wasted on brunches/clubbing etc at least it still goes into the Dubai economy.
I disagree none of them are looking to buy.I know a few through my partner who have brought.Possibly now with prices lower more may buy especially when borrowing becomes easier.


----------



## Wannaberich

Imre said:


> Most of people just transit here (1-3 years) they will never buy a property here
> .


Dubai needs to change itself from a transient place to one where people will remain.Otherwise it will struggle to develop as a proper city/society with all the negative aspects that comes with it.


----------



## True Blue

Nakheel about to handover 2000 Marina Residence apartments on Palm Jumeirah with Golden mile apartments now in handover phase. 

I wonder if we will see negative premiums on these developments as they flood the market.


----------



## shagdash

Imre said:


> I thought that the construction workers and maids have the worst salary but not... I met people from Africa they get 5-600 dhs/month only.


The lifeguard at the pool in our building makes 800 dhms a month. And he's from North Africa.


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> They might not buy but they have to rent so this would help Dubai.Also all that money wasted on brunches/clubbing etc at least it still goes into the Dubai economy.
> I disagree none of them are looking to buy.I know a few through my partner who have brought.Possibly now with prices lower more may buy especially when borrowing becomes easier.


As a demographic, they probably represent about 5-7% of those renting and much less than 1% of those who are buying. I assure you that if you take a sample of 200 people of that age group in Dubai, probably one or two own property at most (and therefore have a negligible impact on buying/selling of property without going into their impact on the overall economy).

Interestingly enough, a few years back my colleagues and I have touched upon this particular subject and the fact that this particular demographic was almost underserviced as a market segment when it came to buying property. The conclusion we came to was that there are very good reasons why - as a whole, these guys generally have no savings for a deposit, no desire to settle down and, most importanly, no need/desire for extra income on the side. Not to mention the fact that this is the most transient group of all and when you're twenty-something in Dubai and earning the kind of income that you need for a property, you generally worry little about investment and mortgages and more about getting to Barasti before end of Happy Hour. :cheers:


----------



## shagdash

peacesells said:


> As a demographic, they probably represent about 5-7% of those renting and much less than 1% of those who are buying. I assure you that if you take a sample of 200 people of that age group in Dubai, probably one or two own property at most (and therefore have a negligible impact on buying/selling of property without going into their impact on the overall economy).


So who is the target demographic that is buying? 30 somethings? 40 somethings? 
I suppose once u reach 50 its adieu dubai for u.
and how many of 30-40+ who buy are there?


----------



## peacesells

shagdash said:


> So who is the target demographic that is buying? 30 somethings? 40 somethings?
> I suppose once u reach 50 its adieu dubai for u.
> and how many of 30-40+ who buy are there?


It's predominantly 40 - 60 year olds. Age cut-off for visas didn't stop many because of a) misinformation coming from agents and developers about the visas and b) primary reason to buy property in Dubai being investment (predominantly short-term speculation) and hence no desire to live here long-term anyway.


----------



## 234sale

How about 1 AED extra per sqft in everyone’s service charge, then you could double the salary of all staff in your building.

The truth is that if you can get a services for half the price, would you want to pay more. I think the stories of workers being brought under some trick contract where initially valid, people in home countries tricking them on some golden deal. Today though, go to the ministry of labour will block or ban a company who mis-treats his staff.

Today if a member of staff gets a visa from a company, if he doesn't want to stay. The hiring company will be responsible for paying outstanding money and their ticket back. (Without a no objection an automatic 6 month ban.)

The situation has improved for many low paid workers, I feel it will continue to improve as their embassy’s are now very involved with complaints.


Our Two drivers Earn 4000 AED a month each, but they have been sharing the same flat in SHJ for the last 6 years and the rent is 2000AED a month. They have new mobiles which they bought themselves, free sim card provided by the company, free use of car at weekends and evenings, 30 days holiday paid, plane ticket paid. I asked one of them how much he spent a month on himself. He answered 1000, 2000 for home. He has land, 3 children and everything in India so he feels he is doing quite well for himself. 
What really gets to me is how the west for the last 10 years has managed to get it cheaper from overseas, but this is going to change soon. 
If construction labour cost was to double, that would probably increase the cost by around,,, right I’m borred already. Hence stopped my rant mid rant.


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> As a demographic, they probably represent about 5-7% of those renting and much less than 1% of those who are buying. I assure you that if you take a sample of 200 people of that age group in Dubai, probably one or two own property at most (and therefore have a negligible impact on buying/selling of property without going into their impact on the overall economy).


I'm not sure why you've brought up 20something pissheads.I started by 
saying Dubai needs more 10-20k earners,quoting gerald.d
These kind of earners will only come when Dubai creates more real jobs which it badly needs.As for the 20+ wasters,they need to live somewhere so their rent money counts.


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> If construction labour cost was to double, that would probably increase the cost by around,,, right I’m borred already. Hence stopped my rant mid rant.


Just a theory,construction costs goes up,Dubai gets in proper skilled builders/tradesmean from around the world who are paid a proper wage and can afford rents/to buy.Developers earn less so build less which is a good thing but they still make a profi.
Good all round?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> Dubai needs to change itself from a transient place to one where people will remain.Otherwise it will struggle to develop as a proper city/society with all the negative aspects that comes with it.


I don't think UAE has the intention to do so.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Is there any update on whether Dubai will be enacting a personal and corporate income tax before 2012.


----------



## Mistermark

Dubai_Steve said:


> Is there any update on whether Dubai will be enacting a personal and corporate income tax before 2012.


... also known as 'killing the goose that laid the golden egg' hno:


----------



## 234sale

Dubai_Steve said:


> Is there any update on whether Dubai will be enacting a personal and corporate income tax before 2012.


Won't happen, vat would be 1st and still nada.


----------



## Cayman

Dubai_Steve said:


> Is there any update on whether Dubai will be enacting a personal and corporate income tax before 2012.


The day it happens, it will be 'bye bye Dubye'


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Quality comes into play as recovery looks up*

Were you under the impresssion that Dubai's waterfront properties were impervious to real estate fundamentals? Perhaps you believe that location is the only differentiator when it comes to building and selling such properties? Perish the thought! 

While there is no denying that living near the water is an attractive proposition, that in itself is not enough. Those time-honoured maxims of quality and even affordability come into play when judging a property.

“Unfortunately, there is a broad range of quality levels between the various developments,” says Linda Mahoney, CEO of Better Homes. “The real victims of the crisis will be those developers who scrimped on quality in order to save some money during the boom.”

In her opinion, buyers who were waiting for prices on waterfront properties to fall are now taking advantage. But their sphere of interest is limited to select properties built by premier developers. As a consequence, those units which are deemed to be iffy on the quality of build aspect are suffering. “The secondary developers who were only out for a quick profit have only themselves to blame,” says Mahoney. Be it Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Islands or Palm Jumeirah, it is the same situation and one cannot just go by a developer’s name.

“For instance, Nakheel used several contractors for Palm Jumeirah. Some properties are of excellent built quality, while others are not,” says the senior manager at Investment Boutique, Safina Rangooni Lakdawala.

Wear and tear
To compound matters, some of the premium residences have not received the after-care they should have. “Some developers haven’t looked after their asset after completion and they are now showing signs of wear and tear,” says Linda. “The Palm is a perfect example: the swimming pools, common areas, and so on are not being cleaned and painted.”

The lack of proper maintenance is irking residents. “How much are they willing to pay on top of what they must pay to the developer?” Linda asks.
Will this lead to a spiral of eroding values and returns on waterfront properties? “People now differentiate between buildings, for example if one is not as well serviced as the other it represents a lower investment yield and is not so attractive,” says Elaine Jones, Asteco’s CEO.

She makes a further valid point by noting that everyone loves a sea view and beaches and, in the local context, an Emirati’s heart is closely linked to sea by heritage. “The Palm enjoys the advantage that you can only build so many properties on there, so it will maintain an air of exclusivity.” It also seems to be the only area where location tops the quality parameter, while in Dubai Marina, buyers are only willing to pay a higher price for perceived quality developments.

Villas on the Palm’s frond seem to have stabilised, as advertised rates start at Dh8 million and are well over Dh20 million for the larger ones. Launch prices were around Dh4.65 million.

Cluttons’ Ronald Hinchey remarks that whether prices are on the up is not the priority today. The market needs to see the transactions take place to regain confidence. Indeed, he believes a price rise now would not be favourable. “It would deter transactions,” Hinchey says categorically. “It is liquidity that will change things. It is all about movement.”

Even a neglected property can still be sold, though buyers will demand a reduction in the asking rate to make allowance for the expenses they incur personally on the renovations.

However, one could say that waterfront properties have been more resistant to price falls. And where there have been declines, they are now staging a recovery. The Jumeirah Islands’ lake environment has served its prices well, but it should 
be duly noted that values at The Springs have recovered equally well, albeit for different reasons.

There’s competition for luxury property investors out there, too. Take Al Barari, an exclusive ‘jungle’ with water features that evoke a Zen living experience. At starting prices of Dh20 million, these pose a challenge to the Palm signature villas.

In a soft market, investors are known to prefer to play it safe. That could mean the end-users and high-end investors feel more comfortable investing in areas such as Dubai Marina, which in the medium- to long-term represents less risk.

In summation, quality could surpass location as the only differentiator that a property investor should take note of.

Dropping Values
Prices have fallen from their peak for water-related properties: 
Jumeirah Lakes Towers fell 46 per cent
Dubai Marina fell 40 per cent 
Palm Jumeirah fell 57 per cent

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/quality-comes-into-play-as-recovery-looks-up-1.528239


----------



## TMZ

Hanna said:


> KPM Tower was initially scheduled to be ready by end-2010. (SUPPLIED)
> 
> 
> Some investors in KPM Tower, a residential project in Dubai Marina, have claimed that the developer is asking them for more money although they have paid more than 30 per cent of the value of their units.
> "We are tired of waiting for the construction to begin. We have paid up to 50 per cent of the amount to the developer, but they keep calling us to ask for more payments. They claim that there is some construction going on, but when we visit the site there is nothing happening there," an investor, who wished to remain anonymous, told Emirates Business.
> A Real Estate Regulatory Agency official confirmed that developers cannot ask for more than 30 per cent payment from investors if there is no construction progress on a development.
> Hamzah Abu Zannad, Director, Marketing and Operations, Al Masah International Real Estate, said the tower has been delayed by more than a year and they received a new payment plan in May from the agency, and they "shared this with the customers".
> Abu Zannad said the 30 per cent payment collected by the developer is to cover preliminary charges, such as land payments, consultant fees, project management fees, land registration, unit registration, foundation contractor payment, etc.
> "If the developer is unable to cover such payments from collection, chances are the project will be delayed indefinitely. Some will not appreciate this rule, and these are speculators. Serious investors and developers have stood side-by-side to weather this storm along with the swift action of the government strengthening these ties," he said.
> Investors said they are also concerned about the slow progress on the project while the developer is pushing them for payments.
> "They even sent out letters to buyers putting a delayed penalty clause of Dh200 per day to be charged to buyers for payment delays," said another investor. "Some of us have paid more than 50 per cent and the developer is asking us to pay more. Also, we are not seeing any progress on the project then why should we pay more?"
> Asked why the project was delayed, Abu Zannad said: "We are committed to accelerate construction to compensate for this delay. The project was initially scheduled to be completed by the end of 2010, however, now we anticipate the project to be delivered in the first quarter of 2011. From now, the anticipated time of delivery of the project is 20 to 22 months."
> The developer also cited reasons for the delay and said just next to the location of the plot is a Dubai Electricity and Water Authority substation that feeds the entire Dubai Marina.
> "For shoring works on the plot we needed a no-objection certificate from Dewa and we had to acquire the necessary approvals for the designs to ensure safety of shoring works and anchoring procedures. Until we reached the final design approval the process took a long time with a number of back and forth communications with Dewa," he said.
> He said the developer will compensate investors with the developer's penalty to its investors for the delay in the handover of the tower.
> "In all our issued contracts that are approved by the authorities, there is a penalty clause stating a nine per cent per annum fee on my part as a developer and we will pay this accordingly with respect to how much our project is delayed."
> Marina Exclusive, the developer of the project, is a subsidiary of Al Masah.
> KPM Tower has an escrow account with Badr Al Islami. In February, the project saw an escrow account adjustment from Amlak Finance to Badr Al Islami.Abu Zannad said the KPM Tower is 97 per cent sold out and is not on hold and will not be cancelled.
> He said the developer has sat with more than 6,000 of its clients and individually sorted out their issues such as delayed payment plans, transfer of funds, downsizing investments, etc.
> "The crisis has affected all people in all segments in several industries, and we believe we have offered many creative solutions that suit all parties," said Abu Zannad.




GOOD TIMING ON THIS , this is the developer i was thinking of swapping with , i sent them a nice e-mail regarding this, i'll post the response as soon as i get it


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Reads like it was written by a committee of 7 year olds.

The quality of journalism and writing in The Gulf News is absolutely diabolical.


----------



## HateTorch

iownyou said:


> what is the averege salary for a worker(philipino,indian) in dubai?
> as a receptionist or working as casher in a resturant? or a taxi driver? normal jobs not really skilled no education required.
> --- snip ---


An asian resturant recep - 2000aed
An asian office admin - 4000aed
A local-only recep - 18,000aed
An asian doctor - 20,000aed
A local-only director - 80,000aed
The last 3 are based on newspaper ads, the first 2 are from friends.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Do locals buy property for themselves or are all given free land?

So only the asian doctor would be a buyer in that list, but since he is transient he would prefer to rent in a down or stable market and pay an expat investor's mortgage

2 or 3 asian office admins could possibly live together and share a mortgage for a long term investment but that is not allowed in Dubai I think? Anyway they would leave after 2 or 3 years so better to rent for them.

I wonder if there will be a market to sell property to anyone other than other investors, in which case it is like a long term speculation/flip with the last one in the chain being burnt in 10 years time.

I think workers will only buy if the prices are rising as it make more sense than renting in that case.


----------



## moscowboy

234sale said:


> How about 1 AED extra per sqft in everyone’s service charge, then you could double the salary of all staff in your building.
> 
> The truth is that if you can get a services for half the price, would you want to pay more. I think the stories of workers being brought under some trick contract where initially valid, people in home countries tricking them on some golden deal. Today though, go to the ministry of labour will block or ban a company who mis-treats his staff.
> 
> Today if a member of staff gets a visa from a company, if he doesn't want to stay. The hiring company will be responsible for paying outstanding money and their ticket back. (Without a no objection an automatic 6 month ban.)
> 
> The situation has improved for many low paid workers, I feel it will continue to improve as their embassy’s are now very involved with complaints.
> 
> 
> Our Two drivers Earn 4000 AED a month each, but they have been sharing the same flat in SHJ for the last 6 years and the rent is 2000AED a month. They have new mobiles which they bought themselves, free sim card provided by the company, free use of car at weekends and evenings, 30 days holiday paid, plane ticket paid. I asked one of them how much he spent a month on himself. He answered 1000, 2000 for home. He has land, 3 children and everything in India so he feels he is doing quite well for himself.
> What really gets to me is how the west for the last 10 years has managed to get it cheaper from overseas, but this is going to change soon.
> If construction labour cost was to double, that would probably increase the cost by around,,, right I’m borred already. Hence stopped my rant mid rant.



It was getting interesting.. why stop.. keep going.. I liked it.


----------



## TMZ

gerald.d said:


> ^^ Reads like it was written by a committee of 7 year olds.
> 
> The quality of journalism and writing in The Gulf News is absolutely diabolical.



who gives a hoot how it was written, the only thing that matters is a company was exposed, thats all i care about, it doesent matter if they spell you with a U and escrow with ASCROW,


----------



## gerald.d

TMZ said:


> who gives a hoot how it was written, the only thing that matters is a company was exposed, thats all i care about, it doesent matter if they spell you with a U and escrow with ASCROW,


(My post was in response to Dubai_Steve's post, not yours.)


----------



## iced

peacesells said:


> As a demographic, they probably represent about 5-7% of those renting and much less than 1% of those who are buying. I assure you that if you take a sample of 200 people of that age group in Dubai, probably one or two own property at most (and therefore have a negligible impact on buying/selling of property without going into their impact on the overall economy).
> 
> Interestingly enough, a few years back my colleagues and I have touched upon this particular subject and the fact that this particular demographic was almost underserviced as a market segment when it came to buying property. The conclusion we came to was that there are very good reasons why - as a whole, these guys generally have no savings for a deposit, no desire to settle down and, most importanly, no need/desire for extra income on the side. Not to mention the fact that this is the most transient group of all and when you're twenty-something in Dubai and earning the kind of income that you need for a property, you generally worry little about investment and mortgages and more about getting to Barasti before end of Happy Hour. :cheers:


funny but true. Altough this is a small segment buying along with low salaries of workers on average compared to property prices, it appears that prices will fall further but that may rents stabilise before property prices do. 

The vast majority of people dont have (or dont wish to use) enough money to buy property. This will mean further falls in rent and property for at least the next few months especially wiht the new supply dripping in. Looks like 2010 will also be a quiet year as well for dubai properties.


----------



## iced

Wannaberich said:


> Just a theory,construction costs goes up,Dubai gets in proper skilled builders/tradesmean from around the world who are paid a proper wage and can afford rents/to buy.Developers earn less so build less which is a good thing but they still make a profi.
> Good all round?


Nice idea but what will happen is that everything will be inflated along with food etc. Developers wont earn less but just increase there prices. Good news if you have property already but not so good for savers and the retired.

The other more likely alternative would be to reduce the salary of the workers so that developers would make profits. Welcome to capitalism!


----------



## Wannaberich

iced said:


> Developers wont earn less but just increase there prices.


If they increased off-plan prices no-one would buy.Their prices would be alot closer to the prices of completed so why buy something thats not even built.
Instead they would have to accept less profit.As a result less would be built
which is probably a good thing.
Projects like Burj Dubai would never have been built if proper wages were in place.This project would have been way way too expensive which is why these kind of fantasy projects will probably never get built in the west.


----------



## moscowboy

Wannaberich said:


> If they increased off-plan prices no-one would buy.Their prices would be alot closer to the prices of completed so why buy something thats not even built.
> Instead they would have to accept less profit.As a result less would be built
> which is probably a good thing.
> Projects like Burj Dubai would never have been built if proper wages were in place.This project would have been way way too expensive which is why these kind of fantasy projects will probably never get built in the west.


Empire state building, WTC, Sears tower, etc were all built. Chicago Spire has started. More will be built in the west. These were all built with union labor at high wages. Labor cost will not stop anyone from building anything. Half of BD's work force is Samsung employees. they are well paid.


----------



## moscowboy

iced said:


> Nice idea but what will happen is that everything will be inflated along with food etc. Developers wont earn less but just increase there prices. Good news if you have property already but not so good for savers and the retired.
> 
> The other more likely alternative would be to reduce the salary of the workers so that developers would make profits. Welcome to capitalism!


I compared internet advertised prices of housing in Dubai versus other parts of the world.
Dubai prices are very high. 
Who wants to spend millions of dollars for housing?
Only some oil barons, I guess.


----------



## Wannaberich

moscowboy said:


> Empire state building, WTC, Sears tower, etc were all built. Chicago Spire has started. More will be built in the west. These were all built with union labor at high wages. Labor cost will not stop anyone from building anything. Half of BD's work force is Samsung employees. they are well paid.


Empire state was built when your grandmother was still in nappies so it dont count.WTC and Sears are babies in comparison to Burj Dubai.The one that impresses me is the Chicago Spire.However the height and circumference
is still considerably smaller.Also lets not forget the Middle East is looking at buildings to surpass the Burj.I really cant see anything on this scale being built in the west.


----------



## DXBQuantum

the price of labor and materials in the west makes building something like the Burj or taller very unfeasible....


----------



## Wannaberich

moscowboy said:


> Half of BD's work force is Samsung employees. they are well paid.


Maybe so compared to a farm worker in Vietnam.


----------



## peacesells

moscowboy said:


> Empire state building, WTC, Sears tower, etc were all built. Chicago Spire has started. More will be built in the west. These were all built with union labor at high wages. Labor cost will not stop anyone from building anything. Half of BD's work force is Samsung employees. they are well paid.


Firstly, worker wages are a SMALL piece of the puzzle that is construction. In fact, in my opinion, the main factor contributing to Burj Dubai's feasibility as a project cost-wise was the land (that was given for free). Secondly, workers in US are a lot more productive than workers in UAE so there's no reason to suggest that 'higher' wages would have made BD unfeasibile. Thirdly, Samsung and other Korean companies (like Shinsung) operate here as follows - bring the top level guys and project managers from Korea and outsource everything else to local sub-contractors (who employ the low=paid Indian-Pakistani-Nepalese labor). So no, they do not have better paid workers, not significantly more so than others anyway.


----------



## TerryPop

*Investor etiqette*

It's finally happened, I have now seen it with my own eyes 

Big black merc driving alongside us, tries to push in last minute at junction, me the car and the baby-seat swing out of the way.

I hoot twice, and flash indicators (i.e. pls use them!) and off I go.

He/she/it speeds up to us at next lights, winds down his window and starts .....wait for it.... spitting all over Ms pop's passenger window!

Didn't get the verbal cr*p he was mouthing (remmember he's in his 40's or 50's,in LOCAL dress, in a smart car!) but the spitting was incredible.


Sheikh mo pls crack down on this .... PLEASE!>>>this can be really offensive to normal people & I'm told had I reacted at all I could be facing prison!!! 

I am one of the many investors who has pumped alot of money into this place, we have a business here, and are just normal people....

Its a wee bit much for me and indeed for poor old Mrs Pop.


----------



## True Blue

Cos he aint on his camel, which normally does the spitting for him!

Low life, uneducated scum! 

^^Get that printed up in arabic on a sign board and show it the next time it happens.:lol:


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> Cos he aint on his camel, which normally does the spitting for him!
> 
> Low life, uneducated scum!
> 
> ^^Get that printed up in arabic on a sign board and show it the next time it happens.:lol:


Ok to be fair (after talking to Mrs Pop) this is the first time it has ever happened to us in Dubai and we have been here six years and maybe the guy was having 'one of those days'... we all have them


----------



## Wannaberich

TerryPop said:


> It's finally happened, I have now seen it with my own eyes
> 
> Big black merc driving alongside us, tries to push in last minute at junction, me the car and the baby-seat swing out of the way.
> 
> I hoot twice, and flash indicators (i.e. pls use them!) and off I go.
> 
> He/she/it speeds up to us at next lights, winds down his window and starts .....wait for it.... spitting all over Ms pop's passenger window!
> 
> Didn't get the verbal cr*p he was mouthing (remmember he's in his 40's or 50's,in LOCAL dress, in a smart car!) but the spitting was incredible.
> 
> 
> Sheikh mo pls crack down on this .... PLEASE!>>>this can be really offensive to normal people & I'm told had I reacted at all I could be facing prison!!!
> 
> I am one of the many investors who has pumped alot of money into this place, we have a business here, and are just normal people....
> 
> Its a wee bit much for me and indeed for poor old Mrs Pop.


Sorry but if that ignorant m/f scum pulled a stunt like that on me I'd be testing my knuckle hardness on his head.


----------



## gerald.d

TerryPop said:


> It's finally happened, I have now seen it with my own eyes
> 
> Big black merc driving alongside us, tries to push in last minute at junction, me the car and the baby-seat swing out of the way.
> 
> I hoot twice, and flash indicators (i.e. pls use them!) and off I go.
> 
> He/she/it speeds up to us at next lights, winds down his window and starts .....wait for it.... spitting all over Ms pop's passenger window!
> 
> Didn't get the verbal cr*p he was mouthing (remmember he's in his 40's or 50's,in LOCAL dress, in a smart car!) but the spitting was incredible.
> 
> 
> Sheikh mo pls crack down on this .... PLEASE!>>>this can be really offensive to normal people & I'm told had I reacted at all I could be facing prison!!!
> 
> I am one of the many investors who has pumped alot of money into this place, we have a business here, and are just normal people....
> 
> Its a wee bit much for me and indeed for poor old Mrs Pop.


This is what mobile phone cameras and YouTube were invented for.


----------



## 234sale

TerryPop said:


> It's finally happened, I have now seen it with my own eyes
> 
> Big black merc driving alongside us, tries to push in last minute at junction, me the car and the baby-seat swing out of the way.
> 
> I hoot twice, and flash indicators (i.e. pls use them!) and off I go.
> 
> He/she/it speeds up to us at next lights, winds down his window and starts .....wait for it.... spitting all over Ms pop's passenger window!
> 
> Didn't get the verbal cr*p he was mouthing (remmember he's in his 40's or 50's,in LOCAL dress, in a smart car!) but the spitting was incredible.
> 
> 
> Sheikh mo pls crack down on this .... PLEASE!>>>this can be really offensive to normal people & I'm told had I reacted at all I could be facing prison!!!
> 
> I am one of the many investors who has pumped alot of money into this place, we have a business here, and are just normal people....
> 
> Its a wee bit much for me and indeed for poor old Mrs Pop.


You should of went to the police immediately. The saliva has DNA in it and spitting is a fineable offence. 
Gerald and I were harassed by Emrill security for taking pictures outside the manzil. We also have very damaging video evidence that would make Emaar cringe and go viral on the net very quickly.


----------



## 234sale

Also to be fair, he may not be actually local, only a wannabe in a dish-dash


----------



## Spurs

TerryPop said:


> It's finally happened, I have now seen it with my own eyes
> 
> Big black merc driving alongside us, tries to push in last minute at junction, me the car and the baby-seat swing out of the way.
> 
> I hoot twice, and flash indicators (i.e. pls use them!) and off I go.
> 
> He/she/it speeds up to us at next lights, winds down his window and starts .....wait for it.... spitting all over Ms pop's passenger window!
> 
> Didn't get the verbal cr*p he was mouthing (remmember he's in his 40's or 50's,in LOCAL dress, in a smart car!) but the spitting was incredible.
> 
> 
> Sheikh mo pls crack down on this .... PLEASE!>>>this can be really offensive to normal people & I'm told had I reacted at all I could be facing prison!!!
> 
> I am one of the many investors who has pumped alot of money into this place, we have a business here, and are just normal people....
> 
> Its a wee bit much for me and indeed for poor old Mrs Pop.


Road rage happens all over the world, lets not brand the locals with a big stick. In fact alot worse happens than spitting from some westen countries.

Discusting behaviour regardless if the guy had a bad day.


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> You should of went to the police immediately. The saliva has DNA in it and spitting is a fineable offence.
> Gerald and I were harassed by Emrill security for taking pictures outside the manzil. We also have very damaging video evidence that would make Emaar cringe and go viral on the net very quickly.


Hehe. One of these days. Perhaps when my iMac has finished processing the panorama (it will take about another 20 days).

One of my fountain vids crossed 250,000 views today, so I've got a nice attentive market for it


----------



## Spurs

*Update*

I called Aristrocrat this mornig for an update. They said they were progressing as pe the sales and purchse agreement.

I'm going to go down there and have a face to face meeting with them today


----------



## Wannaberich

moscowboy said:


> That is old news. enough funding pledged already to complete the structure. The spire will be built and completed in 2011.
> Unlike Dubai, the city of Chicago takes pride in such projects. If the builder fails, it will be given to other builders to finish,


I think the moscow cold has frozen your brain dude.
There's only one place this kind of project would get built and thats in the Middle East.
Anyway,like I said its a baby compared to the Burj and other planned towers in the M/E,all of which would never get built in the West.


----------



## Hanna

*Detained in Dubai*

Detained in Dubai - Support Group for Dubai Residents and Tourists who find themselves in Hot Water in Dubai 

original source 7Days Dubai 18 Nov, 2009

With hundreds of Brits being arrested each year and hundreds more other expats ending up on the wrong side of the law, a support group has been set up to reach out to residents and tourists who find themselves in hot water in Dubai.
Detained in Dubai is a non-profit organisation set up by Radha Sterling after she fought for the freedom of close friend and TV executive Cat Le-Huy, who was arrested on arrival in the emirate for possession of a jetlag drug that turned out to be legal both in the UK and the United Arab Emirates.She said: “I ran a campaign for the release of Cat after he was detained last year. He was picked up in the airport in Dubai and arrested for having melatonin - a jetlag pill which is not even illegal in the UAE. He was held in prison for more than a month and eventually released without charge.” After Le-Huy’s ordeal hit the headlines, Sterling was contacted by other people whose friends and families were going through the Dubai judicial system.She said: “I decided to set up something more formal as I was contacted by a lot of people after what happened to Cat. I have a legal background and worked closely with Cat’s lawyers during his experience so gained a detailed knowledge of the legal system and I wanted to share that with people who need help.”Detained in Dubai is manned by a team of solicitors with experience in corporate, criminal and civil law as well a cross-section of researchers and interns. The drive behind the group is to raise awareness of the UAE’s laws to help foreigners avoid getting into trouble in the first place.
But when the worst does happen, Sterling, who works in the media and has a degree in law, is on hand to talk people through the legal process.Detained in Dubai offers advice and support and recommends lawyers, but mostly, it helps people understand what to expect from an unfamiliar court system.Sterling said: “A lot of the cases we come across are when a foreigner has got themselves in trouble because they aren’t familiar with the law.That comes from ignorance really, but we would like to raise awareness of the expectations of Dubai and to make it clear to people that it is not another America or Britain - there are a lot of very serious rules.”Many of the cases Detained in Dubai has come across in the last eight weeks since its online launch are relating to drugs.
The UAE’s banned and controlled substance list is 49 pages long. Dozens of substances from cough medicine to anti-schizophrenia drugs are included on the inventory.Even tiny traces of an illegal substance can lead to years in prison.But it is not only drugs offences.
Sterling says: “We are seeing a lot of financial and business related cases now which are very complex. It can be difficult for people to know where to start.”Detained in Dubai offers daily support to people, whatever their nationality, and also helps those who come out of the other side adjust to freedom when they are released.Sterling said: “That’s an important part of what we do as well because people can find it difficult when they do eventually get home so we offer after care support.“We understand what they have been through.”

Cases helped by Sterling's group

In trouble with the boss
Dive instructor Roxanne Hillier was jailed for three months in May this year after being convicted of having an affair with her Emirati boss.
The 22-year-old South African, who was working in Sharjah, was arrested when police broke into the dive centre where she had decided to stay overnight while maintenance work was being carried out on her apartment.
She claimed that she was upstairs, in a locked room, when police swooped. Her married boss was downstairs checking dive equipment. She says she was questioned in Arabic and could not understand.
Both Hillier and her boss were charged, although he was later acquitted. Hillier was released on appeal after nine weeks behind bars.

Drug problem
German TV producer Cat Le-Huy was stopped as he arrived at Dubai Airport last year and subjected to a full search.
He was found with melatonin - a supplement used for combating jetlag. He signed a confession in Arabic admitting to possessing illegal drugs, which led to him being locked up in the airport’s detention centre. The authorities also tested some dust and dirt inside his suitcase and found 0.03g of cannabis - smaller than a grain of sugar. Eventually, Le-Huy was released without charge after a meeting between his counsel and the prosecution.

Words of warning
In September 2009, Sun McKay was heading home to Sydney from Afghanistan where he was working for a security firm.
The 32-year-old Australian was queuing for his connecting flight in Dubai when he decided to go to the cash machine. As he stepped out of line, he claims he was grabbed by a man who shouted at him in Arabic. McKay swore in response and was arrested as the man was a police officer.He has been charged with using insulting language to a police officer and could face three years behind bars. McKay is awaiting a court hearing on December 9.


----------



## moscowboy

Hanna said:


> Detained in Dubai - Support Group for Dubai Residents and Tourists who find themselves in Hot Water in Dubai .


I feel sorry for the victims in these cases. I definitely do not want to be in their shoes in a strange country (or, in one's own country).
Things like this (and worse) can happen all over the world. I looked through the strange news items in internet and found similar and wackier cases of unfair and mistreatment by authorities all over the world.


----------



## Old Town Resident

baba toto said:


> Has anyone been in contact with DEC to see if building will ever commence? :badnews:


Has Mr Dheerej not done a runner from the country?

I posted in several threads last year that he did not have enough money to buy my villa in Emirates Hill and lost his deposit then.


----------



## baba toto

Old Town Resident said:


> Has Mr Dheerej not done a runner from the country?
> 
> I posted in several threads last year that he did not have enough money to buy my villa in Emirates Hill and lost his deposit then.


This is really worrying. DEC has a lot of projects going that don't seem to be moving out of the ground, are basically holes in the ground. 

Isn't it time we got together to take collective action via RERA? Can we seek cancellation of the project and refunds? Where are all the investors?


----------



## natoush

I have got a letter from DEC that completion date had been delayed till 31st of September 2010 regarding contract they have rights to postpond for 1 year, so they postponded and if they wont complete by that date you can claim your money back from 1st of october 2010. They have to return! (i have apt in Lawns V)


----------



## Imre

*Press release*

For Immediate Release 18 November 2009 

*Traditional property sales move UAE market *

*Off-plan property sales model unsustainable; return to traditional buying methods evident says leading UAE developer*


Traditional business models that market new properties are gaining in popularity and beginning to generate more sales than off-plan projects, according to a leading United Arab Emirates property developer in UAE.

“Off-plan property sales have proved to be unsustainable,” said Mohammed Nimer, CEO of MAG Group Property Development, which is involved in AED3 billion of developments in the UAE.

“With so many projects heading toward completion and with little difference between the prices of completed and off-plan properties, why would a bank or an owner-occupier take any sort of risk, a completed property is tactile and ready to move in.”

“Sales enquiries for off-plan property have been stagnant now since the third quarter of 2008 – completed properties are however starting to show signs of life,” Nimer added. “Buyers now have the ‘luxury’ of inspecting the actual villa or apartment that they are considering purchasing - no longer are investors risking capital on the basis of an artist’s impression and a salesman’s promise.” 

“It’s also interesting that unfinished property prices have fallen further than those for completed apartments and villas,” added Nimer. 

“Everyone in the property business today is going through challenging times,” Nimer said. “Prices, targets and ambitions have dramatically altered. But overall the market will benefit from a more rational approach to real estate investment as opposed to the speculative market model of 2007 and 2008.”

The collapse of the off-plan property model affected not only the UAE but other more developed property markets such as the UK and Spain. Those markets moved away from their traditional property buying methods and have seen similar declines with small investors often left holding property with negative equity. 
“Mature property markets have turned away from the off-plan model and returned to the traditional buying methods. This means a property development is fully financed by a combination of sophisticated private equity investors prepared to take the risk and the banks. The end-user, or owner-occupier, does not become part of the transaction until the very near completion of the building. 

“This means that the risk of a development being abandoned in a tough selling environment is reduced as both the developer, the private equity investor and the banks are too exposed to do anything other than complete and handover the property.

‘In the boom years, we saw small investors take the place of professional private equity investors and, in many cases even the banks, to finance property development with the results we see today. With banks now having little appetite for high risk investments, off-plan is an unsustainable business model - the future is the traditional, completed property transaction.”


----------



## Monument

gerald.d said:


> ^^ Reads like it was written by a committee of 7 year olds.
> 
> The quality of journalism and writing in The Gulf News is absolutely diabolical.


I wrote it, I'm seven, that's why it reads that way.


----------



## TMZ

Dubai property prices could fall by up to 30 percent from current levels, and it may take a decade for prices to return to peak levels, UBS said on Wednesday.

Despite real estate prices in the city having tumbled more than 50 percent from their 2008 peaks, the investment bank sees another 20 to 30 percent potential decline, analyst Saud Masud said, citing continued population outflows and the amount of supply set to hit the market.

Dubai’s residential property market may be 25 percent oversupplied by the end of next year, he said.


“We expect it will take at least a decade for property prices to return to previous peak levels, and see only modest growth in real estate asset prices subsequent to the market trough in 2011,” Masud said.

UBS reiterated its view that the emirate’s population will shrink by 8 percent this year and by 2 percent next year, based on the assumption that nearly 50 percent of the workforce is employed in real estate or construction, where it said 70 percent of all projects have been delayed or cancelled.

This would lead to 30,000 further units of excess residential housing, to which 40,000 will be added during the next 12 to 18 months as more supply comes on stream.

Adding an existing 20,000 vacant units, total overcapacity could reach 90,000, or 28 percent, in the period.

Recent price increases were mainly due to owners keeping their properties off the market and low transaction volumes, he added.

Between 2001 and 2008, Dubai house prices rose 1.5 times faster than real GDP.

Should GDP growth slow to 6 percent per year in the 10 years after 2011, and “generously” assuming that house prices still grow at the same pace relative to GDP, this would lead to annual growth of 9 percent in real estate prices, Masud said.

That would not be enough to take them back to peak levels of AED1,850 ($503) per square foot in Q4 last year, over a ten-year period.

Real estate and construction stocks have most likely troughed, but a surge in aggregate non-performing loans (NPLs) at UAE banks will limit their upside potential in 2010, UBS said.

The bank said it believes NPL rates in the country are understated and that they may peak at 5.5 times their current reported value of AED27.8 billion ($7.6 billion).

Job creation would be key to boosting Dubai’s economic growth and, consequently, real estate values, Masud said.

“This will be a complex issue as the Emirate redefines itself over the coming years and finds new growth levers outside the property sector, through commerce, education, banking, tourism and healthcare,” he said.

Earlier this month Colliers said that Dubai real estate prices rose 7 percent in Q3.

HC Securities & Investment had previously said they rose 9 percent since April. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/573900-dubai-property-market-may-take-10-years-to-recover---ubs


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Signs of recovery for Dubai property market in 2010*

The price of secondary market properties in some developments in Dubai are increasing, giving hope that a recovery could be on the cards for 2010.

According to real estate firms prices of villas in particular are soaring because of demand and because they offer a better return on investment than apartments.

Property firm Asteco is reporting increases of 11 to 13% at the Springs since the beginning of this year and prices in the Meadows have surged between 16 and 19%.

'Prices in the Springs and the Meadows have seen a quarter-on-quarter steep fluctuation owing to market conditions. It would seem that prices are trying to find stability in these developments and their current levels are trying to catch up with the third to fourth quarter prices of last year,' said Vineet Kumar, Head of Sales.

Other estate agents are also reporting recent rises. 'Prices appear to have stabilised in the Springs and the Meadows largely due to an increase in demand,' said Mohanad Alwadiya, Director, Harbor Real Estate.

'The residential market is currently being driven by a flight to affordable assets. The mid- to low-income earners, who were previously excluded from the market due to high prices, are now taking advantage of the new levels of affordability,' he added.

Prices in these developments are still between 35 and 50% lower than the peaks of 2008 but it is the stability that prompts an optimistic outlook, according to analysts. Indeed the latest Dubai House Price Index from Colliers shows that real estate prices in Dubai have risen almost 7% in the third quarter of this year from the previous quarter.

'The results indicate a bounce in the market and are an indication of an excellent recovery. With a host of projects due launch along with the opening of a new airport, Dubai has plenty on its plate to silence the critics and welcome its investors,' said Tej Kohli, real estate investor and founder of Ozone Real Estate.

He added that stability in real estate prices is set to be steady from this point on and points out that a number of iconic projects will open in 2010 including The Conrad Hotel Dubai, a second Ritz Carlton, the Palazzo Versace Resort, the five-star Royal Amwaj Resort and Spa, and Tiger Woods' Al Ruwaya golf resort.

'The slew of launches goes to show that Dubai is well on track and with global visitor numbers up 4% for the first half of 2009 compared to the same period last year,' added Kohli.

http://www.propertycommunity.com/property-in-dubai/445-recovery-dubai-property-market-2010.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Some positive press on Dubai in UK.

http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/enterta...ist-world/article-1525716-detail/article.html


----------



## shagdash

TMZ said:


> Dubai property prices could fall by up to 30 percent from current levels, and it may take a decade for prices to return to peak levels, UBS said on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/573900-dubai-property-market-may-take-10-years-to-recover---ubs


I'm seeing 650 per sq ft in JLT and 800 per sq ft in JBR. Admittedly for the larger sized apts. How much further will it go if it drops by another 30%?
Puts anyone off buying now.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> Some positive press on Dubai in UK.
> 
> http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/enterta...ist-world/article-1525716-detail/article.html


Errrr,hardly The Guardian is it Steve.
:lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

:lol: The bath chronicle, well got to start somewhere huh. Expect an influx of tourists from Bath then.


----------



## shagdash

Generators seized from shared villas
Praveen Menon

Last Updated: November 18. 2009 11:10PM UAE / November 18. 2009 7:10PM GMT DUBAI // Nineteen generators have been confiscated from villas as the municipality intensifies its campaign against families sharing homes.

The seizures were made at villas where families had stayed put despite being given eviction notices.



Tenants were using the diesel-powered generators after the municipality cut off their water and electricity supplies in an attempt to get them to leave. 

Their confiscation marks a further step by the municipality in its “one villa, one family” campaign, which has declared the sharing of villas by families illegal.

Some landlords and tenants have already been fined during the campaign, which began early last year. The maximum fine is Dh50,000 (US$13,000).



The municipality had placed newspaper advertisements to say that on November 12 it would begin confiscating generators that were being used illegally.

The high cost of renting in Dubai, particularly before the global financial crisis caused the property market to nosedive, often forced several families at a time to share homes.

The municipality said yesterday it was currently focusing on the sharing of villas, but warned those sharing flats they also were at risk.



Mr Rahman said if anyone complained about more than one family living in a single flat creating problems for neighbours, the municipality would investigate and take the necessary action.

However, residents complain that the rules about sharing villas were unclear. Abid Ali, a driver from Pakistan, said he shared a villa with other families in Deira and had not received an eviction notice. “We never got any notice so we are not sure if we are violating the rules,” he said.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091119/NATIONAL/711189851/1010

Where will all these poor people go? Back home? Its obvious they cannot afford to stay in independent accomodation given the peanuts they get paid!


----------



## moscowboy

shagdash said:


> Generators seized from shared villas
> Praveen Menon
> 
> Where will all these poor people go? Back home? Its obvious they cannot afford to stay in independent accomodation given the peanuts they get paid!


If they can afford to share a villa, they can afford to rent their own apartments.


----------



## iownyou

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1192009_1ccaa3cc2bd542379687fd765fd90bc9.aspx


----------



## Porcello

moscowboy said:


> If they can afford to share a villa, they can afford to rent their own apartments.


Unfortunately it's not the case. A shared room cost them 500 AED per month (with up to 8 people sharing a single bedroom). One would pay a minimum of 2000 AED for a studio in International city, instead.


----------



## gerald.d

Starting to sniff around rental options for next year (contract is up in March).

Business Bay Exec Towers looks like it's going to have a significant effect on the market.

2300 sq ft, 3 bed + maids, 2 parking spaces, full Burj view for just 140K? Sounds like good value to me in the current market.


----------



## Freestyler

FWIW said:


> Good article here:
> 
> http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article15148.html


Finally, article written by someone who really knows economics :banana:


----------



## gerald.d

True Blue said:


> The graph takes a reference point at the start of 2005 and makes the actual sales price the benchmark (hence 100%). He then goes onto explain that these were sold too cheaply hence the equilibrium line at 145% which generates the aggressive demand. As each year prices increase with reference to the base price of 2005 hence the Y axis is a percentage of the base price in 2005. Hope that is clear.


Except, unless this swine flu has completely wrecked my brain - which isn't beyond the realms of possibility, it isn't clear at all. The graph would appear to imply the following:

Peak in October 2008 = 340% = 1700 AED/sqft
Trough in June 2009 = 120% = 850 AED/sqft

That's a simultaneous equation without a solution.

His "by way of explanation" contains a non sequitur from points 6 to 7.


/edit
Re-reading the pie chart, I realise my earlier question was a mis-interpretation. He's saying 3% of the _overall_ market is freehold vacant. By his figures, equating to around 10% vacancy amongst freehold property.

(Oh, and thanks for your clarification on the 2005 pricing)

//edit
It does seem a little odd that for someone who has been specialising in this field in Dubai since 1999, there is not a single source relating to Dubai's property market on Google's news archive attributable to him prior to this one.


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> Therefore you would say the only way a developer in Dubai can proceed is to take the example of say UK developers and build using his own/banks money(if they will lend) and then sell only completed properties?


Sell or rent them out. When the construction cost hits the bottom (which I believe will happen during the summer of 2010), it will be a good time to build for long-term investment using own equity. 



> What happens to all the investors out there who have paid for example 20/30/40% towards their unit only for the construction to come to a halt/never started and unlikely to complete?


Not sure why you are asking this, but IMO those who still owe money to developers for properties under construction should take a real good look at the prices they've bought at vs the prices at the market NOW. These days, even a 50% paid up off-plan in certain areas should be abandoned because you can get the same thing but completed for less than the remaining 50%.

For example, if you bought a property in Dubai Silicon Oasis for anything over 800 dhs per foot and still have more than 50% to pay, I suggest you default and take your money elsewhere since there are ready units available for just over 400 a foot and some near-ready units for under 350 per sq foot. 

As for those people who are stuck because the developer stopped building and want your money back or re-comencement of construction, it really depends on the individual situation / company etc. There is a million factors to consider but in general, you're screwed.


----------



## gerald.d

True Blue said:


> _Were June 2009 prices really at the same level as June 2005?_
> 
> My experience is yes! I bought my first unit in the marina in March 05 at 750AED/ft. Many developers were selling at the 1000AED/ft level through that year with agressive glitzy marketing. During this summer we have witnessed transactions in these same projects as completed units for the same prices they were selling in 2005. Currencey exchage differences have made these deals attractive to sellers. Hard proof; speak to Morrismarina and Mackie who will confirm their 2005 purchases resold at zero premium this year.


Apologies for the random nature of the thoughts coming out of my mind, but when you talk of 750/sqft back in March 05, are you talking about completed property, or off plan to be delivered (if on time) a couple of years down the line?

If you are, then I'm not sure it would be valid to compare off plan prices in 2005 with delivered and available prices in 2009. Any idea what kind of prices delivered properties were going for back then?


----------



## FWIW

gerald.d said:


> Except, unless this swine flu has completely wrecked my brain - which isn't beyond the realms of possibility, it isn't clear at all. The graph would appear to imply the following:
> 
> Peak in October 2008 = 340% = 1700 AED/sqft
> Trough in June 2009 = 120% = 850 AED/sqft
> 
> That's a simultaneous equation without a solution.
> 
> His "by way of explanation" contains a non sequitur from points 6 to 7.
> 
> 
> /edit
> Re-reading the pie chart, I realise my earlier question was a mis-interpretation. He's saying 3% of the _overall_ market is freehold vacant. By his figures, equating to around 10% vacancy amongst freehold property.
> 
> (Oh, and thanks for your clarification on the 2005 pricing)
> 
> //edit
> It does seem a little odd that for someone who has been specialising in this field in Dubai since 1999, there is not a single source relating to Dubai's property market on Google's news archive attributable to him prior to this one.


You can see the extensive list of articles written by Andrew Butter here:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/UserInfo-Andrew_Butter.html

I have been following a lot of what he says over the last year or so.


----------



## True Blue

gerald.d said:


> Apologies for the random nature of the thoughts coming out of my mind, but when you talk of 750/sqft back in March 05, are you talking about completed property, or off plan to be delivered (if on time) a couple of years down the line?
> 
> If you are, then *I'm not sure it would be valid to compare off plan prices in 2005 with delivered and available prices in 2009*. Any idea what kind of prices delivered properties were going for back then?


You have to! The off plans of 2005 became the completed in 2009. Back in 2005 there was no differentiation between offplan values and completed values. In many cases offplans were worth more than completed units which was the first warning sign of the impending bubble.


----------



## True Blue

gerald.d said:


> Except, unless this swine flu has completely wrecked my brain - which isn't beyond the realms of possibility, it isn't clear at all. The graph would appear to imply the following:
> 
> Peak in October 2008 = 340% = 1700 AED/sqft
> Trough in June 2009 = 120% = 850 AED/sqft
> 
> That's a simultaneous equation without a solution.
> 
> His "by way of explanation" contains a non sequitur from points 6 to 7.
> 
> 
> /edit
> Re-reading the pie chart, I realise my earlier question was a mis-interpretation. He's saying 3% of the _overall_ market is freehold vacant. By his figures, equating to around 10% vacancy amongst freehold property.
> 
> (Oh, and thanks for your clarification on the 2005 pricing)
> 
> //edit
> It does seem a little odd that for someone who has been specialising in this field in Dubai since 1999, there is not a single source relating to Dubai's property market on Google's news archive attributable to him prior to this one.


We may be on different wave lengths but here goes;

Peak of 335% = 1700AED/ft represents an increase of 235% ie a factor of 2.35.

if we divide 1700 by 2.35 we come back to 725AED/ft which is close enough to my 750AED/ft as to make no difference.

Any clearer? 

To be honest I'm not convinced my self anymore.


----------



## gerald.d

FWIW said:


> You can see the extensive list of articles written by Andrew Butter here:
> 
> http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/UserInfo-Andrew_Butter.html
> 
> I have been following a lot of what he says over the last year or so.


Like I said, absolutely nothing on "and is has been involved advising on large scale real estate investments, mainly in Dubai.".

I'm not challenging the veracity of what he's claiming, just that it seems odd that he's not published a word about it in the previous 10 years.

I guess that if that's how he makes his money, he's probably not too keen on making his opinion public. But then, if that's the case, why come out with something now?

Just my random musings, nothing more insightful than that.


----------



## gerald.d

True Blue said:


> We may be on different wave lengths but here goes;
> 
> Peak of 335% = 1700AED/ft represents an increase of 235% ie a factor of 2.35.
> 
> if we divide 1700 by 2.35 we come back to 725AED/ft which is close enough to my 750AED/ft as to make no difference.
> 
> Any clearer?


Not really (and I'm genuinely not being deliberately obtuse here).

If 100% on the graph = 725. What would 200% on the graph represent, and what factor?



> You have to! The off plans of 2005 became the completed in 2009. Back in 2005 there was no differentiation between offplan values and completed values. In many cases offplans were worth more than completed units which was the first warning sign of the impending bubble.


I don't see that you can actually. You're not comparing like with like. One is a contract for something that may become available in a couple of years time, the other is something you can live in.

There must have been _some_ completed property knocking about back in 2005? Weren't parts of Arabian Ranches pretty much complete around that time?


----------



## peacesells

gerald.d said:


> Like I said, absolutely nothing on "and is has been involved advising on large scale real estate investments, mainly in Dubai.".
> 
> I'm not challenging the veracity of what he's claiming, just that it seems odd that he's not published a word about it in the previous 10 years.
> 
> I guess that if that's how he makes his money, he's probably not too keen on making his opinion public. But then, if that's the case, why come out with something now?
> 
> Just my random musings, nothing more insightful than that.



His article on the 7 Laws of Bubbles is excellenthttp://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article12114.html). 

Having said that, if there's one thing I will take away from this crisis is that every bit of advice from so-called market experts and analysts should be taken with a pinch of salt and that in the end, common sense and economics always prevail. This guy seems to agree and his stuff makes a lot of sense.


----------



## gerald.d

peacesells said:


> His article on the 7 Laws of Bubbles is excellenthttp://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article12114.html).
> 
> Having said that, if there's one thing I will take away from this crisis is that every bit of advice from so-called market experts and analysts should be taken with a pinch of salt and that in the end, common sense and economics always prevail. This guy seems to agree and his stuff makes a lot of sense.


That looks like a really interesting article. I'll read it later - cheers.


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> Sell or rent them out. When the construction cost hits the bottom (which I believe will happen during the summer of 2010), it will be a good time to build for long-term investment using own equity.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why you are asking this, but IMO those who still owe money to developers for properties *under construction* should take a real good look at the prices they've bought at vs the prices at the market NOW. These days, even a 50% paid up off-plan in certain areas should be abandoned because you can get the same thing but completed for less than the remaining 50%.
> 
> For example, if you bought a property in Dubai Silicon Oasis for anything over 800 dhs per foot and still have more than 50% to pay, I suggest you default and take your money elsewhere since there are ready units available for just over 400 a foot and some near-ready units for under *350 per sq foot.*
> 
> As for those people who are stuck because the developer stopped building and want your money back or re-comencement of construction, it really depends on the individual situation / company etc. There is a million factors to consider but in general, you're screwed.


I was talking about projects that have been started and stopped plus projects which have not been started.What happens to the investors who have paid X% if these projects never continue?

As for 350sq ft at DSO,lowest Ive seen is 620 for completed.


----------



## True Blue

gerald.d said:


> Not really (and I'm genuinely not being deliberately obtuse here).
> 
> If 100% on the graph = 725. What would 200% on the graph represent, and what factor?
> 
> 
> I don't see that you can actually. You're not comparing like with like. One is a contract for something that may become available in a couple of years time, the other is something you can live in.
> 
> There must have been _some_ completed property knocking about back in 2005? Weren't parts of Arabian Ranches pretty much complete around that time?


I'm concedeing that there is a flaw somewhere in the graph. Difficult to say where, as there is no Y axis title or other figures. Could probably be the 1700 figure which may represent an increase as opposed to an actual valuation at that point in time. 

Second point I don't agree with you. It is only untill recently that reality has struck home and off plan is treated seperately from built property. Try using your argument last year to try and buy a villa on Palm Jebel Ali by explaining it is only a bit of paper not worth much. Today is different.

In 2005 you could buy an Emaar phase 1 apartment in the marina for 1000AED/ft and an offplan in Park Island for the same amount from the same developer.


----------



## gerald.d

True Blue said:


> I'm concedeing that there is a flaw somewhere in the graph. Difficult to say where, as there is no Y axis title or other figures. Could probably be the 1700 figure which may represent an increase as opposed to an actual valuation at that point in time.
> 
> Second point I don't agree with you. It is only untill recently that reality has struck home and off plan is treated seperately from built property. Try using your argument last year to try and buy a villa on Palm Jebel Ali by explaining it is only a bit of paper not worth much. Today is different.
> 
> In 2005 you could buy an Emaar phase 1 apartment in the marina for 1000AED/ft and an offplan in Park Island for the same amount from the same developer.


Fair points.

Hindsight is, after all, 20:20.

Right. I'm off to watch some fountains and have my first beer of the week.
:cheers:


----------



## True Blue

gerald.d said:


> Fair points.
> 
> Hindsight is, after all, 20:20.
> 
> Right. I'm off to watch some fountains and have my first beer of the week.
> :cheers:


It has occured to me why offplans were often more valuable than completed units in the past.

To buy a ready now apartment you had to raise the full amount immediately. To buy an off plan you could often only need 10% knowing you were only interested in flipping it and making 10% premium. 

Back to crazy percentage figures again, a 10% deposit flipped for 10% premium is a 100% profit. Apply the same to completed purchase. The 100% becomes the cost, the premium stays the same and the profit becomes a lowly 10% therefore off plans were the big attraction in the rising highly liquid market.

Enjoy your beer!


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> I was talking about projects that have been started and stopped plus projects which have not been started.What happens to the investors who have paid X% if these projects never continue?


They are screwed. But seriously, it all depends on the project/developer/investor etc. 9 times out of 10, they're screwed and probably will not see their money again. 

Just take a look at the recent Cirrus Developments (http://www.cirrusdevelopments.com) fiasco. The 'developer' was no more than a service provider to a bunch of offshore shells with limited liability. They owe nothing to investors. Legally speaking, if those offshores declare insolvency, do not renew their license or simply stop all communications through their appointed agents (which basically are just glorified administrators with permission to register off-shore companies in whatever jurisdiction they're at), the investors have no recourse. Even if somehow they all got together and forced the jurisdiction to sign away the assets of those companies, well, they'd be left with the plots and they are literally worthless now.



> As for 350sq ft at DSO,lowest Ive seen is 620 for completed.


Psst if you look hard enough, you can find buildings in DSO 6 months away from completion where you pay full cash upfront and get the unit below 350. You can get completed for around 410 now, but that may involve haggling. PM me if you need me to give you a hint where to look


----------



## baba toto

Are any fellow investors still out there?? Or have they committed suicide? (Hope Not!!)


----------



## Freestyler

Wannaberich said:


> I was talking about projects that have been started and stopped plus projects which have not been started.What happens to the investors who have paid X% if these projects never continue?


Depends on the developer(s). Some developers are offering completed or near completion with consolidation. Others are not.


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> You can get completed for around 410 now, but that may involve haggling. PM me if you need me to give you a hint where to look


:weird:
410 isnt the average price but if you can get me something in Palace Towers for that then I'm on the next plane out of the UK :cheers:


----------



## Wannaberich

Freestyler said:


> Depends on the developer(s). Some developers are offering completed or near completion with consolidation. Others are not.


Sorry I'm thick,what do u mean?


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> :weird:
> 410 isnt the average price but if you can get me something in Palace Towers for that then I'm on the next plane out of the UK :cheers:


Give it a month, they just started handing it over. I bet there will be plenty of people trying to dump these to avoid the final payment.



> Originally Posted by Freestyler
> Depends on the developer(s). Some developers are offering completed or near completion with consolidation. Others are not.
> 
> Sorry I'm thick,what do u mean?


He means that some developers are offerring clients units in completed projects instead of those in projects they have stopped (eg. DP offerring units in JBR for Dubai Lagoon buyers).


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> Give it a month, they just started handing it over. I bet there will be plenty of people trying to dump these to avoid the final payment.


Now thats what I call desperate.U pay all the installments right up to the last then u try to sell for peanuts to avoid final payment.I guess that must go for any development in Dubai at the same stage then.
As for Palace,have made my last payment quite a while ago and assume everyone else has had to also.Havent seen any bargains there yet but will have to keep my eyes open.:cheers:


----------



## TerryPop

*Sale sale sale- or is it?*

Mrs Pop and her friend went shopping today.

Went to MOE and into TheOne and looked at four bits of furniture for the house.

Cost was going to be about 8,000 dirhams.

So they decided to go down to TheOne in Dubai outlet Mall- to save some money.

They sell, 2nd's & items with a 20-30% discount.


The scammers at Dubai outlet mall had marked all items up by 30% to 50% so that there was no real gain to buy in the sale!

An example was a leather thingy discounted from 2500 dirhams, BUT in MOE not in the sale was priced at 1800.

The sales man had nothing to say...

Just remember just because a pretty sign says something DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH folks


----------



## Imre

Today I was driving around Mirdiff,Uptown Mirdiff, Warqaa and Dubai Silicon Oasis , few thousand villas in those areas and seems almost done , plus many apartments of Motor City.

Who will live there ?


----------



## porshe911

Can we get refund? Have any one ask for it ?
In contract said completion date 1st quarter of 2009


----------



## baba toto

porshe911 said:


> Can we get refund? Have any one ask for it ?
> In contract said completion date 1st quarter of 2009


Yes I asked and they refused flat with the usual excuse i.e. the money is deposted with RERA! Try asking RERA and they will probably suggest to you to take legal action. In any case they will deduct at least 30% of total price!!!

I feel I have been robbed between the developer and the Dubai Government!!!

If all of us complain to RERA, maybe RERA can cancel the project and refund 100% of our monies!! (assuming there is actually 100% held in RERA accounts!!!!)


----------



## kevin_1980in

I wouldn't recommend accepting Developer's proposals for consolidation or offer to buy completed units. I have filed several matters and I have two judgements already from Dubai courts. One of these was awarded by the supreme court few weeks back. Please re-consider before accepting developer terms.


----------



## porshe911

baba toto said:


> Yes I asked and they refused flat with the usual excuse i.e. the money is deposted with RERA! Try asking RERA and they will probably suggest to you to take legal action. In any case they will deduct at least 30% of total price!!!
> 
> I feel I have been robbed between the developer and the Dubai Government!!!
> 
> If all of us complain to RERA, maybe RERA can cancel the project and refund 100% of our monies!! (assuming there is actually 100% held in RERA accounts!!!!)


They told me the same thing, although they mention in contract after 6month of completion day the buyer get full refund


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Imre said:


> Today I was driving around Mirdiff,Uptown Mirdiff, Warqaa and Dubai Silicon Oasis , few thousand villas in those areas and seems almost done , plus many apartments of Motor City.
> 
> Who will live there ?


All those people sharing villas at the moment who get forced out and can rent these one for AED 500 per villa per month.


----------



## Wannaberich

Imre said:


> Today I was driving around Mirdiff,Uptown Mirdiff, Warqaa and Dubai Silicon Oasis , few thousand villas in those areas and seems almost done , plus many apartments of Motor City.
> 
> Who will live there ?


There are new villas at DSO,4 Beds 7674sq ft renting at 224.000,3 beds 4520sq ft renting for 165.000.If I was living somewhere like Arabian Ranches paying the same for something much smaller I'd be looking at DSO.
I expect alot of these villas will go to the higher paid skilled workers/managers and their families working for DSO companies/schools/hospital etc.Also I would expect some to go to Emirates airline as they already have the 560 original villas.


----------



## vaksa

Can someone give me an idea if “carpet area” includes kitchen and bathrooms? Obviously, the floor space covered by built-in cupboards, kitchen cabinets etc doesn’t count?


----------



## noir-dresses

Your joking rite ??? Carpet space means liveable space, yes including kit/bath (wall to wall, the part you can touch on the inside)


----------



## Wannaberich

noir-dresses said:


> Your joking rite ??? Carpet space means liveable space, yes including kit/bath (wall to wall, the part you can touch on the inside)


Does it include the garage?


----------



## vaksa

noir-dresses said:


> Your joking rite ??? Carpet space means liveable space, yes including kit/bath (wall to wall, the part you can touch on the inside)


Well, only a little better, then.
Just did a rough measurement of an apartment that’s supposed to be 75m carpet. Barely 64 with all that, including built-in furniture.
So much for buying off-plan, surprises aplenty.


----------



## True Blue

^^When you are buying carpet for a house you have to buy more than the actual liveable space don't you. Pay attention to the salesmans terminology:bowtie:


----------



## noir-dresses

If you choose to you can put carpet in, or on your kitchen cabinets, closets, toilet seat, you know what I mean. :lol: This way you can have more carpet space.


----------



## noir-dresses

vaksa said:


> Well, only a little better, then.
> Just did a rough measurement of an apartment that’s supposed to be 75m carpet. Barely 64 with all that, including built-in furniture.
> So much for buying off-plan, surprises aplenty.


Im sure your kitchen, and toilet is going to be more than 11 m2.

I think what's bothering you is gross, and net space. If the apartment is going to be 75m2 carpet space, than that is good, because that is the true size of the apartment.


----------



## baba toto

porshe911 said:


> They told me the same thing, although they mention in contract after 6month of completion day the buyer get full refund


I complained on the RERA website early August and to date, NOTHING, no response from RERA. Calling them doesn't help either. Their call centre simply e-mails the head office and then, NOTHING, still no response....

The recent, so called Government initiative for "free legal advice" - When will this be implimented and who will qualify? Who knows? I can't afford to take legal action alone. Lawyer's fees and court fees are prohibitively expensive, and they don't guarantee a 100% refund. 

If only we could collect written petitions from fellow investors? (But how??)Then we could approach RERA on a strong basis, to cancel the project!!! 
Could we take legal action as a group?? There is a group of investors who have done this - Checkout: www.concerneddubaisportscityinvestors.com. 

:bash:


----------



## moscowboy

gerald.d said:


> You find me a decent job in Moscow paying decent money, sort the weather out, and I'll be delighted to come and live there


na.. stay where you are.. people from Moscow dream of going to Dubai for vacation..


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai property prices may drop as much as 30 percent or more*

original source Bloomberg


Nov. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Dubai home prices may take at least a decade to recover and increasing supply and a shrinking population will leave 25 percent of the sheikdom’s houses empty next year, according to UBS. 

Prices may drop as much as 30 percent more, UBS analyst Saud Masud said in a note today. They have already fallen by more than 50 percent from the peak last year, making Dubai the worst-hit market in the global real estate slump. 

Dubai’s construction boom petered out in the third quarter of last year after banks tightened lending and speculators left the market. UBS’s research contrasts with a Deutsche Bank report this month that said the market is “bottoming out” with slowing price declines and an increase in transactions. Masud said the market will probably reach its bottom in 2011. 

Consolidation in the industry will result in asset writedowns, limiting the benefits of a possible merger of Emaar Properties LLC and three state-owned companies, UBS said. Emaar, the United Arab Emirates biggest real-estate developer, is in talks to join with state-controlled competitors Dubai Properties LLC, Sama Dubai LLC and Tatweer LLC. 

Dubai’s population, which is 90 percent expatriate, may drop by 8 percent this year and another 2 percent in 2010, Masud said. Nearly half the workforce is employed in real estate or construction. 

Banks in the United Arab Emirates have understated their non-performing loans and the total may grow to around five times the 27.8 billion dirhams ($7.57 billion) reported by the central bank in September, the Dubai-based analyst wrote. 

Bank lending tied to real estate may be 35 to 40 percent of the total when including personal loans used for property investment. Central bank regulations cap real estate lending at 20 percent of a bank’s total. The loans could be 350 billion dirhams to 400 billion dirhams, almost double the stated 204 billion dirhams, UBS said. 

Provisions for bad loans may grow to more than five times their current levels over the next 12 to 18 months, Masud wrote. Net provisions stood at 29 billion dirhams by the end of October, central bank data shows. 

“We expect to see greater consolidation, higher provisions for non-performing loans, an increase in investor delinquencies and relatively lower end user demand for residential and commercial property,” Masud wrote. 

Banks will face pressure to provide liquidity and late payments will probably present a continuing risk for contractors and subcontractors, he said.


----------



## moscowboy

Hanna said:


> Nov. 18 (Bloomberg) --
> increasing supply and a shrinking population will leave 25 percent of the sheikdom’s houses empty next year, according to UBS.
> 
> Prices may drop as much as 30 percent more, . They have already fallen by more than 50 percent from the peak last year.
> 
> Dubai’s population, which is 90 percent expatriate, may drop by 8 percent this year and another 2 percent in 2010,
> Nearly half the workforce is employed in real estate or construction.
> late payments will probably present a continuing risk for contractors and subcontractors, he said.


What makes these pundits any better than the bartender? Did any of these pundits see the big market drop coming before 2008? No. 
Pundits will write all kinds of bullshit to fill the pages of papers every day.
Market will behave the way it wants to.

In my opinion, the middle east economy is based on crude oil export only. Without technologically educated native population and democarcy, the region has no long term prospects. 
I am not a columnist in a news paper or an employ of a big bank. So, my opinion does not count.


----------



## noir-dresses

Why would Russians dream of going to Dubai if you say the region has no long term prospects ????? :bash:

Just by interest, what are Russia's long term prospect's, beside's oil, and gas export ?


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*For everybody living in Dubai*

Do you think the population of Dubai is growing again?
(I just want to know out of interest and I know this is not related to Property and Investment..)


----------



## noir-dresses

I don't know if the population is growing, or just more tourist's, but I noticed on my last trip that there was alot more people in town, especially around Burj Dubai, the mall was full of people. I'm sure there were about 10,000 if not more people watching the fountain's, and Old Town was jamming.


----------



## williamX

noir-dresses said:


> Why would Russians dream of going to Dubai if you say the region has no long term prospects ????? :bash:
> 
> Just by interest, what are Russia's long term prospect's, beside's oil, and gas export ?


I can say that Dubai has better strategy than our huge Russia, as it's confusing me that we (Russia) beside oil and gas has all chemical elements, has very strong science, military technologies, high brain-potential BUT, we can't manage it right, our local governments care about their pockets. 
The supreme government - Putin, Medvedev and their team trying the best, but governments in regions don't care about social things. 
It's a matter of time, i guess it needs more than 2 generations to change that pocket-minded corrupt bastards. 

Dubai it's a miracle from the state point of view for Russian. As it has little oil, sand and perfectly (ofcourse compared to Russia and CIS countries) organized state-management. 

For me Dubai became favorite city in my life, i admired by it's progress and lifestyle. I observe Dubai since 1993 and i believe in this city. 
Offcourse not everything is fine - we were invested decent amount of money, was promised to bbe a residents but then was fooled around. I guess Dubai government will review visa issue, as if they won't - it will be very big mistake and collapse of future property market in longterm, as many people need visa, as many rich people want just to spend good time not working, so they need visa. Yes many people will say - you can open company in freezone. No, i don't want any headache, i need only visa to live and to spend (invest) money in Dubai. 
Dubai has perfect ruler, i believe such issues will be solved.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

New Dubai brand sees 'huge response' in UK19 Nov 2009

The Dubai Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DTCM) has revealed that its new brand identity has generated a 'huge' and broadly enthusiastic response in the UK.

Definitely Dubai, the official brand that will now be used to promote tourism in the emirate, was launched at the World Travel Market in London earlier this month.

The DTCM hosted a reception that featured over 150 travel industry professionals from the UK and Ireland to introduce the new project.

As part of the Definitely Dubai campaign, the department held raffle draws offering prizes including flights with Emirates and hotel stays.

The UK and Ireland collectively represents the destination's biggest source market, with more than 383,000 people from the region staying in Dubai hotels in the first half of 2009.

Trips to the emirate could continue to prove popular next year when it hosts events such as the Dubai Shopping Festival from 28 January to 28 February and Dubai Summer Surprises from 17 June.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*UAE is 'growing steadily', says Mohammad*

We have financial and human resources to face challenges, Mohammad says

Dubai: The UAE is growing steadily and has set its sights on the future, His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, said yesterday.

Shaikh Mohammad welcomed media delegations from 46 Arab and foreign countries and asked them to witness the boom in the political, economic, social and developmental fields.

The delegations have been invited by the National Media Council and will meet officials to discuss various issues.

They will also tour projects in Dubai as part of 38th National Day anniversary celebrations.

One economy

Shaikh Mohammad refuted claims that the global financial crunch has left negative effects on Dubai's economy. He said Dubai and Abu Dhabi have one economy, the UAE economy.

"Everything we have is from God and everything in Dubai and Abu Dhabi belongs to the UAE and its people," he said.

The Vice-President stressed that the UAE economy is growing steadily and that the country is looking forward to the future, citing the civil nuclear energy project and passenger traffic at Dubai International Airport.

Passenger traffic has exceeded 44 million over the past ten months of this year compared to 37 million in 2008. The airport is working at full capacity and hotels in the UAE have seen a higher occupancy rate.

"There are challenges, but there are also promising opportunities, and we have the necessary financial and human resources to face these challenges with our faith in God, our determination, ability and correct vision," he said.

A German reporter told the Vice-President that he had visited the UAE in 1991 and could not believe that all the giant projects would be implemented and that Shaikh Mohammad's vision would be realised.

The reporter said everything he sees cannot be imagined, to which Shaikh Mohammad replied that many people had doubts.

Big dreams

"They said you, Shaikh Mohammad, have big dreams, and now we tell them that we managed to turn the dream into a reality of great achievements which have put the UAE under the spotlight and attracted giant global companies looking for investments, safety and a future," the Vice-President said.

"We have turned most of our dreams into reality," he said, answering questions from journalists.

Shaikh Mohammad gave the example of the Dubai Metro project, which has been a resounding success.

Promoting commerce

His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, has issued two laws setting up the Dubai Duty Free Establishment and Dubai Events and Commerce Promotion Establishment, and a decree naming Shaikh Ahmad Bin Saeed Al Maktoum, President of Dubai Civil Aviation Authority and Chairman of Emirates Group as Chairman of Dubai Duty Free.

He also issued three decrees reshuffling the board of the Investment Corporation of Dubai (ICD), the board of Dubai Aluminium Company (Dubal) and the Supreme Committee for Financial Policy in Dubai.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/government/uae-is-growing-steadily-says-mohammad-1.529799


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai_Steve said:


> "Everything we have is from God and everything in Dubai and Abu Dhabi belongs to the UAE and its people," he said.


Should'nt that read...

Everything we have is from _Investors_ and everything in Dubai and Abu Dhabi belongs to the UAE and its people


----------



## mackie1964

I am a fan of the big guy but he is taking the p*** :bash::bash:


----------



## docc

I'm not sure what numbers say but the traffic is definitely getting bad again!


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai_Steve said:


> Well if most = 10% then that is true :lol:


Hi Steve, my advice would be to go a little easy with the mocking of the ruler cause that's one of the biggest no no's over there, don't forget for one minute where you are. There's alot of local's using this forum, and they don't usually percieve thing's the way we do. If they wan't to throw you behind bar's there, they will alway's find a way to do it. Don't forget all your info on who you are, what you do, and where you live, investment's, etc are on the forum. 

Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but it's alway's better to be on the safe side, than being sorry.


----------



## AltinD

^^ He doesn't live here.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai economy growing at five percent pace*

Dubai's economy growing less than in previous years but ahead of most cautious forecasts.

DUBAI - The Dubai economy is growing at a five percent rate, less than in previous years but ahead of the most cautious forecasts, the head of a government economic committee said on Friday.

"Yes we are affected by what is going in the world but we are confident in the stability of the city," Mohammad Alabbar, also chairman of construction giant Emaar, told a World Economic Forum conference in the emirate.

"Last year we were all in the eye of the storm. The past 12 months have been quite painful months," he said.

"GDP growth is now five percent. We used to have a growth of 14 percent (so) this isn't bad news, but it's not as good as before," said Alabbar, whose committee is tasked with helping Dubai counter the impact of the global economic crisis.

The International Monetary Fund has predicted GDP growth of about 3.5 percent this year for the United Arab Emirates, of which Dubai is part, down from the 7.4 percent achieved in 2008.

Alabbar denied reports of a mass exodus of expatriate workers. In the last 12 months "400,000 people have come to live in Dubai," he said, while refusing to put a figure on the number who have left.

The 2006 census put Dubai's population at 1.4 million.

Alabbar said an announcement is likely in the next few days on the proposed merger between Emaar and other state-linked companies, Dubai Properties, Sama Dubai and Tatweer.

Last month Emaar announced that it swung to a net profit of 655 millions dirhams (178 million dollars) in the third quarter from a loss of 1.285 billion dirhams (350 million dollars) in the three months to June.

The Dubai property sector, in which Emaar is the biggest operator, was badly affected by the international crisis, as property prices plunged by 50 percent from their peak. 

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=35805


----------



## moscowboy

noir-dresses said:


> Why would Russians dream of going to Dubai if you say the region has no long term prospects ????? :bash:
> 
> Just by interest, what are Russia's long term prospect's, beside's oil, and gas export ?


Russians love to vacation in hot beaches of Dubai when the tour prices are low.
They also like to go to other hot beaches like Egypt, Thailand, etc.

As far as long term prospects are concerned, Russia is a super power in every way. The current, miserable economic situation is the result of collapse of USSR. There is potential for change.

Russian population is highly educated and tech savvy. They do not need foreign technology to build tall structures or long bridges or underground railways (Moscow Metro is the largest and best in the world.)

They built first space craft and space station, first supersonic jet fighters, ands far superior air attack defenses, nuclear submarines.

Russia has fertile land mass, natural resources and moderate climate, etc. (climate of Moscow is same as Chicago. ) 

PS: I am not a paid propagandist.


----------



## True Blue

Much of Russia's technology is crude and unrefined. Much of the nuclear technology is still regarded as a liability to the world, Chernobyl and K11 being 2 examples.

Maybe that is why Russians like to leave the mother land so much

PS; I am not a propogandist either:lol:


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Neither Moscow nor Chicago could be described to have _moderate_ climates. Unless by moderate you mean "averagely OK in the summer, and fricking freezing yer nuts off cold in the winter".


----------



## porshe911

RERA should refund Investors money ,instead of retain it as escrow account


----------



## AppleMac

moscowboy said:


> They do not need foreign technology


Russia has been stealing technology from the West for decades :lol:


----------



## williamX

*mark*



AppleMac said:


> Russia has been stealing technology from the West for decades :lol:


Such posts shows how you are non-educated and far away from science, also i can guess that you are British or American, as your mind oriented and blocked by "western" idiology and complexes. 

If you will check - you'll find that such research works as laser and semi-conductors and many other things was made in USSR. Only 2 examples, special for you: if only this 2 things was not developed by Russian scientists - you would not have mobile phones and all laser-based electronics. For this two discoveries russian scientists was granted to Noble. Russia first sent first satellite in early 50s. I will not continue, as USSR scientist in many spheres was pioneers. 

Let's stop about Russian things, as it's Dubai Investment thread.


----------



## Get Smart

moscowboy said:


> Russians love to vacation in hot beaches of Dubai when the tour prices are low.
> They also like to go to other hot beaches like Egypt, Thailand, etc.
> 
> As far as long term prospects are concerned, Russia is a super power in every way. The current, miserable economic situation is the result of collapse of USSR. There is potential for change.
> 
> Russian population is highly educated and tech savvy. They do not need foreign technology to build tall structures or long bridges or underground railways (Moscow Metro is the largest and best in the world.)
> 
> They built first space craft and space station, first supersonic jet fighters, ands far superior air attack defenses, nuclear submarines.
> 
> Russia has fertile land mass, natural resources and moderate climate, etc. (climate of Moscow is same as Chicago. )
> 
> PS: I am not a paid propagandist.


say what you like about Russian technology, fact of the matter is Russia still laggs way behind Japan and Germany. Can Russia competewith the Nissan Skyline GTR, Toyota Land Cruiser? But you are right Russia does have plenty of talents, and raw materials, if only these opportunities were exploited efficiently


----------



## glover

FYI, the law was passed on 31/12/2007, but has not come into effect yet, pending the rules and regulations enforcing it which should have been issued by RERA long time ago!!!

http://www.ameinfo.com/151314.html

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091107/NATIONAL/711069842/1010




AppleMac said:


> Strata Law has not been passed yet - hopefully it will be approved next year.


----------



## Morrismarina

Look at the fees in Discovery Gardens, they're outrageous. And then there's Golden Mile apartments on PJ. Clearly an example of Nakheel ripping people off big time.


----------



## rags

Imre said:


> He cant do anything with this , the big companies also failed (Nakheel,Emaar, Omniyat etc.. ) and most of investors will loose money.
> 
> Also just have a look the Jumeirah Village , Dubai Sports City, City of Arabia etc.. many small "noname" developers have done nothing since 2006-2007 , no way to finish many projects there.
> 
> This is an investment without guarantee same like the stock and money market.
> 
> If you want to be safe position just buy government fund .


Like money market? How is that like stocks? Also, just pause and think who gives the guarantee? Iceland? AIG? Zimbabwe? Frank Khoie from RAK prison cell like he did for La hoya bay?

As for govts, well... you might well end up holding no more than toilet paper in the form of govt bonds with a measly 6 percent coupon when hyper-inflation (1000 percent plus) hits like it did Brazil, Argentina, Russia and a few others a few years ago or as you will see inflation hitting 20-30% in dollar-pegged countries and UK unless they rein in deficits posthaste.


----------



## moscowboy

rags said:


> Like money market? How is that like stocks? Also, just pause and think who gives the guarantee? Iceland? AIG? Zimbabwe? Frank Khoie from RAK prison cell like he did for La hoya bay?
> 
> As for govts, well... you might well end up holding no more than toilet paper in the form of govt bonds with a measly 6 percent coupon when hyper-inflation (1000 percent plus) hits like it did Brazil, Argentina, Russia and a few others a few years ago or as you will see inflation hitting 20-30% in dollar-pegged countries and UK unless they rein in deficits posthaste.


There are no guarantees other than real estate. Only real estate is real in uncertain times. But then, it is not liquid and it can be taken away from you by law suits etc.. That is why "GOLD" is the perfect investment. It is transportable and can be hidden and always holds its value. Then again, people get killed for Gold.


----------



## High Times

Morrismarina said:


> Well we don't pay any property tax in the UK. We do pay Council Tax (for local services, rubbish collection, fire department etc. ) but this is just the equivalent of the Community Charge in Dubai. So there's no difference in tax between UK and Dubai.


I agree Morris,

Always makes me smile when the usual suspects claim Dubai's superior position as it's a TAX FREE state. No direct income tax I agree, but in reality if you include all the "fees" Dubai PLC has dreamt up that must be incurred just to exist as a human being the overall tax take (or fee take for the pedantic), from the citizen is an a par with a basic rate tax payer in the UK. The difference being UK taxes provide you with certain tangible benefits, which are the envy of the world and are what economic and political migrants come to the UK, and are prepared to die for.

In Dubai "the fees" are little more than Government (or government owned companies) income, for which nothing much is delivered in return.

It would be interesting to see a case study of income and expenditure for say a Bank Manager in the UK versus Dubai in terms of what income is earned and what taxes and fees are incurred to have the same kind of lifestyle and benefits.

Cant beat the sunshine in Dubai though.


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## AppleMac

High Times said:


> Always makes me smile when the usual suspects claim Dubai's superior position as it's a TAX FREE state. No direct income tax I agree, but in reality if you include all the "fees" Dubai PLC has dreamt up that must be incurred just to exist as a human being the overall tax take (or fee take for the pedantic), from the citizen* is an a par with a basic rate tax payer in the UK.*


Hardly - all the 'fees' still exist in the UK and you pay income tax on top of it.


----------



## AppleMac

moscowboy said:


> Russian Lada was a copy of Fiat


Out of all the cars in the world why did they feel the need to copy a car that was a byword for rust and unreliability in Europe? :nuts:


----------



## Morrismarina

To be fair Russia has definitely been at the forefront of many techological achievements such as first man in space etc. Actually it was the Russians who developed laser eye surgery in the early 1980's when the West simply scoffed and said it was totally impossible. Now it's routine and I have the Russians to thank for my perfect eyesight. 

I believe when the Space Shuttle is scrapped next year the US will have to send their astronauts up to the International Space Station via the Russians. I've heard the astronauts will have to go through a two year "conversion programme" to learn the Russian language as all the controls systems are in Russian. And the US will have to rely on transportation from the Russians for the next 5 years. This seems to have been keep out of the news but we'll all know about it in next 12 months. And if Obama does not sanction the estimated $40 billion request for the new Orion rocket system, which by all acccounts he'll refuse, the US willl have to rely on the Russians for a great deal longer. Total humiliation for the US. End of a superpower perhaps ?? Any thoughts of the US going to Mars are just a joke. I bet Kennedy must be turning in his grave.


----------



## Morrismarina

High Times said:


> Cant beat the sunshine in Dubai though.


Yes HT I've always wondered whether Dubai would be so popular with the Brits,Germans, Russians etc if the weather was the same as Northern Europe. Just image for a moment the cold winters and rainy summers, I doubt it would be popular at all. I really think the great weather is the biggest attraction in Dubai.


----------



## peacesells

moscowboy said:


> Russian Lada was a copy of Fiat. It runs well and transports people every day.


Please. Some of us actually grew up riding in these and know that the only reason you would buy a Lada is because you couldn't afford anything else.


----------



## peacesells

AppleMac said:


> Hardly - all the 'fees' still exist in the UK and you pay income tax on top of it.


As an example, cost of running a small or even a medium-sized business in Dubai is extortionate regardless of whether you actually have any income. You pay fees everywhere you go - from licensing to local sponsors to mandatory office space to visas. Free zones you say? Same thing, different spin on the fees. At the end of the day, you win ONLY if you have high profit margins (which is basically not a sustainable state for 99% of businesses).


----------



## iced

peacesells said:


> You also get private developers stuck with a bunch of owners who refuse to pay their fees for whatever reason and the only way out is to bump the fees up so that the paying owners can finance the upkeep.
> 
> The lack of Strata Law is, in my opinion, an even bigger threat to Dubai's market than the lack of residence visa.


Yep this is definitely a bigger problem than visas. The strata law has been issued but not yet fully implemented. It purpose includes allowing owners to choose an owners assoc to oversee the maintaince rather the developers.

when its implemented it should mean a reduction in fees but it does need to be implemented asap


----------



## High Times

AppleMac said:


> Hardly - all the 'fees' still exist in the UK and you pay income tax on top of it.


Point well missed again.

In the UK your 'taxes' or 'fees' give you something back, benefits are tangible and Government is accountable (not perfect, but accountable none the less) in Dubai nada.


----------



## mackie1964

While a few of you having some comparisons, here is one for you:

For an excellent service and great quality provided by a Dutch management company for a1200sqft, investment/holiday home we share with a friend in Cornwall, UK. We paid £640 this year(this fee also include cleaning of the garage and a private storage area for surf boards…etc). In Dubai, I pay nearly the same amount to service my balcony. Yes you have read that right, just for the balcony. I have a 265sqft balcony in a one bedded apartment that I get charged AED1,325 to chill (yes they charge me chilling fee for the balcony too)and AED2,120 for other services. Absolute madness and I can do nothing about it. :cheers:


----------



## AppleMac

High Times said:


> Point well missed again.
> 
> In the UK your 'taxes' or 'fees' give you something back, benefits are tangible and Government is accountable (not perfect, but accountable none the less) in Dubai nada.


Well lets see - in the UK there is a 'fee' for issue of a driving license, in Dubai there is a 'fee' for issue of a driving license - In the UK there is a 'fee' to register your car every year, in Dubai there is a 'fee' to register your car every year - In the UK there is a 'fee' for the issue of a visit visa, in Dubai there is a 'fee' for the issue of a visit visa.

So I dont exactly see where you think you are getting all these extra benefits in the UK but not in Dubai.


----------



## Wannaberich

The UK has high taxes plus many hidden taxes.In return we get health care,education etc etc etc.Tax on our cars pays for roads/bridges etc etc.We get 'looked after' if we havnt got a job or cant work due to disability.They don't call the UK a 'nanny state'for nothing.Its too much,too many taxes and too many benefits especially for scroungers coming from abroad(dont talk to me about teenage single mums).
In Dubai there is no tax.Great if you have health care/education etc with your job package.If not you have to pay out of your own pocket.There are also no benefits.So tax free only means something
if your job has the complete package.
For those earning peanuts which represents a large section of Dubais workforce,
someone enlighten me as to what happens when these people are sick,need their teeth seeing to,or need for their kids to be educated?
Tax free isnt as great as it seems.Better to tax people 5/10% and provide a health service/education etc etc etc for all.When we talk about turning Dubai from a transient city to one where people will build their futures,this is needed along with visas.
Just my opinion.


----------



## shagdash

^^^^
Keep on dreaming


----------



## AppleMac

Wannaberich said:


> someone enlighten me as to what happens when these people are sick,need their teeth seeing to,or need for their kids to be educated?


Not sure about Dubai, but in AD it is mandatory for health insurance to be provided by the employer or sponsor.


----------



## porshe911

baba toto said:


> Have you asked RERA for a refund? Are you in Dubai? If so can you approach RERA? Perhaps if you speak Arabic it may make a difference? I'm not sure people really understand what they've got into. I mean, how many people have actually received a full refund??? In my case I invested in 2006. It is now almost 2010 and what do I have to show for my life savings invested? - A hole in the ground in Jumeirah Village!!!
> 
> Do we even know how much of OUR hard earned money is actually held by RERA? They have no right to hold our money indefinately!! Either the developer performs (which as you can see from the above dates, is clearly a joke, or RERA refund 100% back to us!!!!! Despite the developer being in clear breach of contract by failing to complete the project in time, I find it shocking that RERA can brush us aside by suggesting that we take legal action to seek a refund or that 30% will be deducted if we "cancel" the purchase!!! In my case, RERA have not even found the courtesy to reply to my complaint lodged almost 4 months ago!!! This is a scandal. What is the point of RERA if we have to take expensive legal action??? They have done this to discourage investors from seeking refunds because they know that, even though developers are in gross breach of contract, investors stand to loose at least 30% of the purchase price if they cancel!
> 
> I regret my decision to invest in Dubai.
> 
> 
> :bash:


 Hi
I feel sorry for all investor in this project ,I am not in uae .
Is there is specific date for refund if the developer failing 
to complete the project? like you said We invest in06 -10 !!!!! 
or we have to loss 30% ,or we have to wait for ever and forgot our money ..
if this only the choices then what is the benefit of rera ..
rera should take action againt this Corruption ..


----------



## AltinD

^^ In Dubai as well now, at lest Jebel Ali free zone made it mandatory


----------



## Wannaberich

shagdash said:


> ^^^^
> Keep on dreaming


U dont think Dubai will introduce taxes in the future?Its u whos dreaming dude.


----------



## bizzybonita

Even in dream there is a waiting list !


----------



## baba toto

porshe911 said:


> Hi
> I feel sorry for all investor in this project ,I am not in uae .
> Is there is specific date for refund if the developer failing
> to complete the project? like you said We invest in06 -10 !!!!!
> or we have to loss 30% ,or we have to wait for ever and forgot our money ..
> if this only the choices then what is the benefit of rera ..
> rera should take action againt this Corruption ..


What completion date should I quote? There is one completion date on the booking form and a later completion date on the contract...What action is RERA going to take? They can't even take the action of replying to my complaint!!! This is Dubai for us!!

:bash:


----------



## shagdash

Wannaberich said:


> Better to tax people 5/10% and provide a health service/education etc etc etc for all.When we talk about turning Dubai from a transient city to one where people will build their futures,this is needed along with visas.





Wannaberich said:


> U dont think Dubai will introduce taxes in the future?Its u whos dreaming dude.


The dream I was referring to was providing health service/education etc.
I do not for one minute doubt that dxb can impose direct taxation. Already there is talk of VAT on goods and services (possibly to be introduced in 2010)
There are many forms of indirect taxation already present. Salik @ 4 dhms everytime you use SZR. Property taxes to the tune of 5% of the rent you pay, or 0.5% of property value if you're an owner-occupier. Visa fees and all the bells and whistles that go with it. Co. fees, sponsor fees plus plus...
IMO, all taxes introduced will directly benefit "the people of the UAE", who sadly we aren't and will never be!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

moscowboy said:


> There are no guarantees other than real estate. Only real estate is real in uncertain times. But then, it is not liquid and it can be taken away from you by law suits etc.. That is why "GOLD" is the perfect investment. It is transportable and can be hidden and always holds its value. Then again, people get killed for Gold.


but you can't pay the loan back for buying gold by renting it out.


----------



## moscowboy

,,,


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## peacesells

moscowboy said:


> Most of the *"investors*", came to Dubai with no money in their pockets and only a dream. They bought and flipped off-plan apartments and made millions, in a few years.
> 
> So, I would rephrase it as:
> "Everything the *"investors*" have today is from Dubai Bubble and it all came originally from the money Dubai had saved up from years of oil revenue and huge debt taken on by Dubai government. And that huge debt belongs to the citizens of Dubai and UAE and they will have to pay it off because the *"investors*" who came and profited took their money and went back to their noveau riche apartments in England!


Not really, I'd say most of those 'investors' quickly reinvested their profits into more Dubai real estate and are now neck deep in negative equity.


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## noir-dresses

moscowboy said:


> Most of the *"investors*", came to Dubai with no money in their pockets and only a dream. They bought and flipped off-plan apartments and made millions, in a few years.
> 
> So, I would rephrase it as:
> "Everything the *"investors*" have today is from Dubai Bubble and it all came originally from the money Dubai had saved up from years of oil revenue and huge debt taken on by Dubai government. And that huge debt belongs to the citizens of Dubai and UAE and they will have to pay it off because the *"investors*" who came and profited took their money and went back to their noveau riche apartments in England!


Wrong, wrong, wrong, if you ever had a chance to come to Dubai you would realize very quickly nothing come's cheap what so ever, especially back in the old day's. You get charged for every thing rite down to a drink of water. You need money, to make money there just like every where else, same goes for the flipper's, they had to start some where. Alot of the investor's are cash buyer's who just have holiday home's, and don't even live there. I really don't know one developer in Dubai who would sell you some thing with no money down, or guarantee on the table, but please inspire me with your Peter Pan dreams to make all that money to line my pockets, and I will do it tomorow.


----------



## gerald.d

shagdash said:


> The dream I was referring to was providing health service/education etc.
> I do not for one minute doubt that dxb can impose direct taxation. Already there is talk of VAT on goods and services (possibly to be introduced in 2010)
> There are many forms of indirect taxation already present. Salik @ 4 dhms everytime you use SZR. Property taxes to the tune of 5% of the rent you pay, or 0.5% of property value if you're an owner-occupier. Visa fees and all the bells and whistles that go with it. Co. fees, sponsor fees plus plus...
> IMO, all taxes introduced will directly benefit "the people of the UAE", who sadly we aren't and will never be!


Don't forget that the VAT proposal included the removal of the 5% import duty.

As an aside, from this month, all salary payments go via a central bank. Rather than your employer paying money directly into your bank account, it gets paid into the central bank first, and from there to your account. This has been introduced on the pretext of ensuring employees get paid ontime, but it's actually an ideal - not to mention extremely efficient - point at which to skim off a percentage of someone's earnings.


----------



## noir-dresses

They're centralizing the system so one day they can automatically take taxes out of people's pay, the fastest way to get cash coming directly to the government, it's brilliant on there side.


----------



## seasurf

*Dubai's future*

ok we have all read the zillion contradicting reports out there at the moment and I think that it is fair to say that some reporters are in cuckoo land and some just joined the Dubai bashing bandwagon. 

But I feel the completed property market in good spots ie Palm Jum, Dubai Marina etc are still worth buying and will appreciate and provide good rentals. What are your thoughts?


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## Morrismarina

seasurf said:


> ok we have all read the zillion contradicting reports out there at the moment and I think that it is fair to say that some reporters are in cuckoo land and some just joined the Dubai bashing bandwagon.
> 
> But I feel the completed property market in good spots ie Palm Jum, Dubai Marina etc are still worth buying and will appreciate and provide good rentals. What are your thoughts?


There's a massive amount of supply of property to come on stream in the next few years especially in the PJ/ Marina/JLT area. Plus loads of stuff in Business Bay and Burj Dubai areas etc. My thoughts are that this will keep prices and rentals down for the next 3-4 years, probably further falls to come of say 20% in prices and rentals IMO. But we could find in say next 5 years things pick up considerably due to the current cancellation of many projects - such as Palm JA ,The World, JV etc. So there may be restricted supply 5 years ahead and completed properties much sought after. (Off plan is dead forever given the many projects where investors have been scammed and what is actually built is subject to incredibly slow construction. People have learned their lessons from all this). 
I would expect until a proper residency visa is introduced many holiday home buyers will keep away for now. Given the three year visa has cancelled and tourist visa reduced to only 30 days many would be cautious about buying on the basis of what the hell is comming next, prohibiting the Oman "visa run" perhaps ?? :dunno:


----------



## noir-dresses

People were maybe paying some one to stand in line for them, but no one made million's standing in line. 

Don't listen to what alot of people on this forum say cause most of them don't own property in Dubai, nor there country of origin, and the one's that do own property in Dubai can give you the clearest picture of all on this thread. There's a big difference in opinion's, and fact between an investor in Dubai, a guest worker in Dubai, the local's meaning UAE national's citizen's only, a tourist, or just some frequent user of the forum.


----------



## shagdash

Morrismarina said:


> There's a massive amount of supply of property to come on stream in the next few years especially in the PJ/ Marina/JLT area. Plus loads of stuff in Business Bay and Burj Dubai areas etc. My thoughts are that this will keep prices and rentals down for the next 3-4 years, probably further falls to come of say 20% in prices and rentals IMO.


So in your opinion Morris, what would be a right price per square feet in say JLT and JBR?
Is 750 dhms a sq ft in JLT (I think I see Al Seef advertised at that rate) overvalued or will it fall to 600 a sq ft?
Is 800 dhms a sq ft in JBR overvalued or will it fall to 640 a sq ft? (assuming 20% drops)


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## seasurf

moscowboy said:


> I think the best place to be in 20 years is Russia, especially Moscow.
> That is a country with great potential.
> I suggest all of you guys disgusted with Dubai, come over to Moscow and live happily ever after.
> 
> In 20 years Dubai will have no more oil and no more oil money.
> Russia will be sitting pretty with all that natural resources, ha ha.


^^Why is it then that so many Russians are here in Dubai ??


----------



## seasurf

234sale said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population


thanks interesting stuff.


----------



## gerald.d

seasurf said:


> wow...San Francisco has only 700, 000 residents. That really surprised me...interesting.


It probably has a low birth rate.


----------



## peacesells

moscowboy said:


> I think the best place to be in 20 years is Russia, especially Moscow.
> That is a country with great potential.
> I suggest all of you guys disgusted with Dubai, come over to Moscow and live happily ever after.
> 
> In 20 years Dubai will have no more oil and no more oil money.
> Russia will be sitting pretty with all that natural resources, ha ha.


moscowboy, you're delusional. 

First, you're spewing this pseudo-propaganda crap about the virtues of Russian cars (which are rubbish) and the stability of Russian power supplies (don't be an idiot, every Russian knows how to go to sleep in three layers of clothing when they cut the power in winter and the local boiler room stops pumping heated water into the radiators). Now, you think Russia is going to somehow rise to the occassion and become a utopia 20 years from now. You're dead wrong - 99% of all Russians would jump at the opportunity to get out because of the horrible government, the degradation of society, the immigrants and the general s*** that you have to deal with when living there. The only people who live a happy life there are the ones sucking the place dry - the corrupt politicians and their buddy-buddy "biznesmeni". Go away, you're not fooling anyone.


----------



## TerryPop

gerald.d said:


> It probably has a low birth rate.


yeah I heard they are doing it all wrong over there in SF lol! :lol:


----------



## peacesells

iownyou said:


> see many people who bought property were flippers to keep the property from 0 to 2 years. property is one of the best businesses because is very steady and you dont need to do much do make money buy and rent but it can only be handled by the patient people. the minimum time for this business is 10 years.


It is far from being a steady or easy enterprise, especially if you have numerous units and manage them yourself. Add the fact that Dubai property laws are a murky puddle of unknown and you are no better off than running a restaurant or any other business.



> if you can get a minimum of 10% anual rental return from the property this is the first sign that tells you this is a good property and ofcourse it will keep going up every year about 2 to 5% percent.


10% is a good indicator but you should never assume property prices are going to rise. Were you under a rock the last two years?



> the second part is the land
> how much land is there aveileble. if you think about it dubai is a small city.bigger then new york but not a large city so since there is scarcity of land then they can only build so much property on it.


Dubai has a hell of a lot of land. They have launched twice the amount that can be absorbed by supply and are now scrambling to reduce it. They can probably launch another 5 Waterfronts and still have room to spare for the camels and the nomads. 



> the third thing is the visa it is hard to come to america it is very hard and a long process to get a visa to america(green card) but it is easy to get a visa to dubai.many people dont want to come to america as they wanted in the past 100 years. the world is changing i have many indian and chinese friends and they wish they could go back to their country or they are planing to go back because china has alot of oportunity now and so does india.


A visit visa, yes. A tourist visa, yes. A permanent visa which allows you to build your future and live there as long as you like? No.



> dubai and the rest of the gulf have good oportunity as well and they also have alot of money.dubai has no tax. i loved it when i was living there the money i had in my wallet was my money unlike here in america 10% tax is added to anything i buy. or the money i make so much of it goes to taxes for no reason or need. dubai is close to 75% of the world population.


Firstly, Dubai is an expensive city, taxes or not. Secondly, there ARE taxes such as housing fees. Thirdly, instead of paying tax where you would normally, you pay 'fees' etc - this has been discussed ad nauseum here and I cringe every time someone who doesn't even live here says such nonsense. Finally, there's a reason why they have taxes in other countries, look it up, it's called 'public sector'. 



> dubai has oportunity alot of oportunity. it is easy to open a business in dubai. i think it takes about 2 to 3 weeks to open a business.


A lot of opportunity? I'd say as much as anywhere else. Easy to open a business? Unless it's some general trading company in a freezone, it isn't. There are about 30 countries I can think of where it's easier, there's a yearly report on these things done by the World Bank I think.



> i dont think many on this forum are looking at the long term view but more now or next 3 months or next year why dont we look at 2020 what or where will dubai be? i think many from arab countries will come because is safe because is nice because is clean. but at least 10 years of holding on a property then you will see dubai will be an amazing place ( i think its a nice place already)


Yes.


----------



## Wannaberich

moscowboy said:


> That is a country with great potential.
> .


Has always been a country with great potential.Trouble is that potential will never be reached due to communism which is why Russia will always be the hellhole it is.
Lets not even bring up the weather.


----------



## Wannaberich

Morrismarina said:


> PJA is going to be on hold for a long time why else are they asking buyers to transfer to other projects. Of course they'll never ever say it's cancelled, it will always be on hold, but let's face it nothing is going to be built there for a very long time IMO


Until PJA gets finished it will always be a very high profile symbol of the failure of Dubai.Its such a huge incredible project which the west will always use to demonstrate the failure of Dubai and how fantasy can never become reality(even if PJ is very much alive).It will remain an embarrassing eyesore for years to come.
Dubai has stood out as a place where fantasy can become reality,where developers/architects can create the impossible and see their project built unlike in the west where red tape/cost would make it impossible to create something like PJ and Burj Dubai.PJA will take alot of that away now even if most of the reason for Dubais failure wasnt even its own fault,mainly due to the global financial crisis.


----------



## Wannaberich

Morrismarina said:


> And The World.......hope they build on it before the sea takes it back.


Errrrr,no thanks.


----------



## gerald.d

Ooh. Exciting...

*Société Générale has advised clients to be ready for a possible "global economic collapse" over the next two years, mapping a strategy of defensive investments to avoid wealth destruction.*

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ients-how-to-prepare-for-global-collapse.html



> In a report entitled "Worst-case debt scenario", the bank's asset team said state rescue packages over the last year have merely transferred private liabilities onto sagging sovereign shoulders, creating a fresh set of problems.
> Overall debt is still far too high in almost all rich economies as a share of GDP (350pc in the US), whether public or private. It must be reduced by the hard slog of "deleveraging", for years.
> 
> "As yet, nobody can say with any certainty whether we have in fact escaped the prospect of a global economic collapse," said the 68-page report, headed by asset chief Daniel Fermon. It is an exploration of the dangers, not a forecast.
> 
> Under the French bank's "Bear Case" scenario (the gloomiest of three possible outcomes), the dollar would slide further and global equities would retest the March lows. Property prices would tumble again. Oil would fall back to $50 in 2010.
> 
> Governments have already shot their fiscal bolts. Even without fresh spending, public debt would explode within two years to 105pc of GDP in the UK, 125pc in the US and the eurozone, and 270pc in Japan. Worldwide state debt would reach $45 trillion, up two-and-a-half times in a decade.
> (UK figures look low because debt started from a low base. Mr Ferman said the UK would converge with Europe at 130pc of GDP by 2015 under the bear case).
> 
> The underlying debt burden is greater than it was after the Second World War, when nominal levels looked similar. Ageing populations will make it harder to erode debt through growth. "High public debt looks entirely unsustainable in the long run. We have almost reached a point of no return for government debt," it said.
> 
> Inflating debt away might be seen by some governments as a lesser of evils.
> If so, gold would go "up, and up, and up" as the only safe haven from fiat paper money. Private debt is also crippling. Even if the US savings rate stabilises at 7pc, and all of it is used to pay down debt, it will still take nine years for households to reduce debt/income ratios to the safe levels of the 1980s.
> 
> The bank said the current crisis displays "compelling similarities" with Japan during its Lost Decade (or two), with a big difference: Japan was able to stay afloat by exporting into a robust global economy and by letting the yen fall. It is not possible for half the world to pursue this strategy at the same time.
> SocGen advises bears to sell the dollar and to "short" cyclical equities such as technology, auto, and travel to avoid being caught in the "inherent deflationary spiral". Emerging markets would not be spared. Paradoxically, they are more leveraged to the US growth than Wall Street itself. Farm commodities would hold up well, led by sugar.
> 
> Mr Fermon said junk bonds would lose 31pc of their value in 2010 alone. However, sovereign bonds would "generate turbo-charged returns" mimicking the secular slide in yields seen in Japan as the slump ground on. At one point Japan's 10-year yield dropped to 0.40pc. The Fed would hold down yields by purchasing more bonds. The European Central Bank would do less, for political reasons.
> 
> SocGen's case for buying sovereign bonds is controversial. A number of funds doubt whether the Japan scenario will be repeated, not least because Tokyo itself may be on the cusp of a debt compound crisis.
> 
> Mr Fermon said his report had electrified clients on both sides of the Atlantic. "Everybody wants to know what the impact will be. A lot of hedge funds and bankers are worried," he said.


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## True Blue

Moscowboy, the reason I have not continued with the Russian technology/nuclear liability subject is this is a Dubai forum and the title is Property and Investment in Dubai. Can you try a little harder to stay on topic while here, or take it to the Sky Majalis thread for general discussion.

Thanks


----------



## shagdash

moscowboy said:


> These kinds of fear mongering has been around for ever. It means nothing.


It is obvious you know nothing of economics.:bash:


----------



## noir-dresses

It's getting a little old now, give it a rest


----------



## DXBQuantum

Yeah he is really boring and ''trolley''


----------



## sandb

Hi guys, 

i would have wished to be able to find this site before i've invested in the Lawns, i read your previous comments quickly but with great interest. 

I lived in Dubai for few years but now i try to follow the situation from outside, i used to visit Dheeraj's office once a while asking the staff for some news about the project, as usual i got a kind of positive feed back attitude, all is ok now since we got the land handed over to us by Nakheel (that was end of 2008) and we are happy to tell you that the work will start very soon (word which is very used by Dheeraj and other developers, soon= 1 week? 1 month? 6 months? you never know exactly!)

So the problem before was Nakheel, but now who to blame?
There was a Lebanese guy who worked with Dheeraj as the head of the technical dept. i don't know what happend with him he disapeared for few months ago (no explanation from Dheeraj) and has been replaced by i another person, i tryed to get the contact of the new guy but the developer doesn't want to give his details.

Lately i've sent a bunch of emails to Dheer. asking the reason of the delay, if you check their website the latest updates are from April/May then nothing, the latest news i got from them was, we are doing the dewatering (start sept.) the subcontractor should start the construction after that soon, i quote, the Lawns are not cancelled, the work is going on again in full swing (i like the expression) 
the completion is for the 4th quarter 2010, (which i doubt highly, they need at least 13/14 months to achieve that) what is amazing, they could provide me a completion date but not the starting one!

just another anectode, around august i asked why their website was not updated anymore, reply, we had some technical problems with our server!(so since April/May no one was able to resolve the issue!)
It just show you the real face of Dheeraj and its management, it's really appaling that they mislead the investor at this point!

What can we do? in my opinion Dheeraj has not the sufficient equity to build all the projects, (i hope i might be wrong) if they had the cash i think they would have been under construction for a while, but instead we have only some bad excuses or non stop postponements, and no update to provide to the clients.

In my view the best for all of us is that this project is cancelled by the authorities, that's the only way to get our money back, the idea of writing a petition is a good one, thanks to Baba toto for the link, created by the investors in sport city that's a good way to be heard by RERA, but we need to find the other investors in the Lawns! How can we achieve that?

OQOOD: is the registration for off plan units in Dubai
It generates sales summary and updated ownership information of off plan properties in Dubai.
Surprisingly i haven't got any letter from D. about Oqood!

Thanks to all for your updates,
reg.


----------



## Barracuda

Does anyone want to sell a 1 bed in here?
Please pm me


----------



## Monument

gerald.d said:


> It probably has a low birth rate.


Few hetrosexuals in San Francisco - believe me it has a low birth rate.


----------



## iownyou

gerald.d said:


> It probably has a low birth rate.


yes because its the gay capital of the world i am sure not many gays are having kids :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## iownyou

It is far from being a steady or easy enterprise, especially if you have numerous units and manage them yourself. Add the fact that Dubai property laws are a murky puddle of unknown and you are no better off than running a restaurant or any other business.


10% is a good indicator but you should never assume property prices are going to rise. Were you under a rock the last two years?

I SAID 10 YEARS IN CALIFORNIA PROPERTY PRICESS HAVE DROPED UP TO 70 PERCENT IN SOME AREAS 

Dubai has a hell of a lot of land. They have launched twice the amount that can be absorbed by supply and are now scrambling to reduce it. They can probably launch another 5 Waterfronts and still have room to spare for the camels and the nomads. 

YES I KNOW THERE IS ALOT OF LAND BUT TRUST ME SOONER OR LATER THE LAND WILL FINISH AND THEN YOU WILL SEE PRICESS JUMP

A visit visa, yes. A tourist visa, yes. A permanent visa which allows you to build your future and live there as long as you like? No.

I SAID TO OPEN A BUSINESS NOT TO JUST GO TO DUBAI FOR NO REASON
TRY TO GO TO AMERICA AND GET A GREEN CARD IT WILL TAKE YOU 5 YEARS


Firstly, Dubai is an expensive city, taxes or not. Secondly, there ARE taxes such as housing fees. Thirdly, instead of paying tax where you would normally, you pay 'fees' etc - this has been discussed ad nauseum here and I cringe every time someone who doesn't even live here says such nonsense. Finally, there's a reason why they have taxes in other countries, look it up, it's called 'public sector'. 


A lot of opportunity? I'd say as much as anywhere else. Easy to open a business? Unless it's some general trading company in a freezone, it isn't. There are about 30 countries I can think of where it's easier, there's a yearly report on these things done by the World Bank I think.



Yes.[/QUOTE]
:bash::bash:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Does Dubai have a VISA green card diversification lottery like America or something similar? If not, why not? http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1322.html



> The Congressionally mandated Diversity Immigrant Visa Program makes available 50,000 diversity visas (DV) annually, drawn from random selection among all entries to persons who meet strict eligibility requirements from countries with low rates of immigration to the United States.


----------



## The Atlantic

*Prices of Dubai Marina apartments rise-Business 24/7*

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1242009_b0de9517d0874e16b978d9c9b1e73501.aspx

http://www.business24-7.ae/PublishingImages/2411_16.pdf


----------



## UK_TO_DUBAI

Prices of Dubai Marina apartments rise


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1242009_b0de9517d0874e16b978d9c9b1e73501.aspx


----------



## baba toto

sandb said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> i would have wished to be able to find this site before i've invested in the Lawns, i read your previous comments quickly but with great interest.
> 
> I lived in Dubai for few years but now i try to follow the situation from outside, i used to visit Dheeraj's office once a while asking the staff for some news about the project, as usual i got a kind of positive feed back attitude, all is ok now since we got the land handed over to us by Nakheel (that was end of 2008) and we are happy to tell you that the work will start very soon (word which is very used by Dheeraj and other developers, soon= 1 week? 1 month? 6 months? you never know exactly!)
> 
> So the problem before was Nakheel, but now who to blame?
> There was a Lebanese guy who worked with Dheeraj as the head of the technical dept. i don't know what happend with him he disapeared for few months ago (no explanation from Dheeraj) and has been replaced by i another person, i tryed to get the contact of the new guy but the developer doesn't want to give his details.
> 
> Lately i've sent a bunch of emails to Dheer. asking the reason of the delay, if you check their website the latest updates are from April/May then nothing, the latest news i got from them was, we are doing the dewatering (start sept.) the subcontractor should start the construction after that soon, i quote, the Lawns are not cancelled, the work is going on again in full swing (i like the expression)
> the completion is for the 4th quarter 2010, (which i doubt highly, they need at least 13/14 months to achieve that) what is amazing, they could provide me a completion date but not the starting one!
> 
> just another anectode, around august i asked why their website was not updated anymore, reply, we had some technical problems with our server!(so since April/May no one was able to resolve the issue!)
> It just show you the real face of Dheeraj and its management, it's really appaling that they mislead the investor at this point!
> 
> What can we do? in my opinion Dheeraj has not the sufficient equity to build all the projects, (i hope i might be wrong) if they had the cash i think they would have been under construction for a while, but instead we have only some bad excuses or non stop postponements, and no update to provide to the clients.
> 
> In my view the best for all of us is that this project is cancelled by the authorities, that's the only way to get our money back, the idea of writing a petition is a good one, thanks to Baba toto for the link, created by the investors in sport city that's a good way to be heard by RERA, but we need to find the other investors in the Lawns! How can we achieve that?
> 
> OQOOD: is the registration for off plan units in Dubai
> It generates sales summary and updated ownership information of off plan properties in Dubai.
> Surprisingly i haven't got any letter from D. about Oqood!
> 
> Thanks to all for your updates,
> reg.


Exactly right. Now that Nakheel is out of the way, why the delay? DEC customer service said the same to me i.e. they have been dewatering but is there any evidence of this? The updates on the DEC website are vague and there is no narrative to explain what is going on to a lay man like me. Apparently now, they are waiting for the subcontractor to set up base on site. Can this be confirmed to be the case? How long are we to go along with these delaying tactics??

Lets all take some of our time to complain to RERA and seek to cancel the project because that is the only way that DEC will take any notice of our plight.....I just hope that enough of us can act for RERA to take any notice.....


----------



## dubaimarina2008

http://www.business24-7.ae/PublishingImages/2411_16.pdf


----------



## dubaimarina2008

dubaimarina2008 said:


> I think prices of Dubai Marina will go up soon. People will realise quicly that it will be the only one sea front community in Dubai which is ready in next 10 years with Palm Jumairah.
> 
> We all know that Dubai Waterfront and other palms are not ready for a very long time.


I was right.


----------



## Wannaberich

UK_TO_DUBAI said:


> Prices of Dubai Marina apartments rise
> 
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1242009_b0de9517d0874e16b978d9c9b1e73501.aspx


Arabian Ranches villa prices rise up to 50%.
Marina prices rise up to 38%.
Sounds too good to be true.hno:


----------



## porshe911

sandb said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> i would have wished to be able to find this site before i've invested in the Lawns, i read your previous comments quickly but with great interest.
> 
> I lived in Dubai for few years but now i try to follow the situation from outside, i used to visit Dheeraj's office once a while asking the staff for some news about the project, as usual i got a kind of positive feed back attitude, all is ok now since we got the land handed over to us by Nakheel (that was end of 2008) and we are happy to tell you that the work will start very soon (word which is very used by Dheeraj and other developers, soon= 1 week? 1 month? 6 months? you never know exactly!)
> 
> So the problem before was Nakheel, but now who to blame?
> There was a Lebanese guy who worked with Dheeraj as the head of the technical dept. i don't know what happend with him he disapeared for few months ago (no explanation from Dheeraj) and has been replaced by i another person, i tryed to get the contact of the new guy but the developer doesn't want to give his details.
> 
> Lately i've sent a bunch of emails to Dheer. asking the reason of the delay, if you check their website the latest updates are from April/May then nothing, the latest news i got from them was, we are doing the dewatering (start sept.) the subcontractor should start the construction after that soon, i quote, the Lawns are not cancelled, the work is going on again in full swing (i like the expression)
> the completion is for the 4th quarter 2010, (which i doubt highly, they need at least 13/14 months to achieve that) what is amazing, they could provide me a completion date but not the starting one!
> 
> just another anectode, around august i asked why their website was not updated anymore, reply, we had some technical problems with our server!(so since April/May no one was able to resolve the issue!)
> It just show you the real face of Dheeraj and its management, it's really appaling that they mislead the investor at this point!
> 
> What can we do? in my opinion Dheeraj has not the sufficient equity to build all the projects, (i hope i might be wrong) if they had the cash i think they would have been under construction for a while, but instead we have only some bad excuses or non stop postponements, and no update to provide to the clients.
> 
> In my view the best for all of us is that this project is cancelled by the authorities, that's the only way to get our money back, the idea of writing a petition is a good one, thanks to Baba toto for the link, created by the investors in sport city that's a good way to be heard by RERA, but we need to find the other investors in the Lawns! How can we achieve that?
> 
> OQOOD: is the registration for off plan units in Dubai
> It generates sales summary and updated ownership information of off plan properties in Dubai.
> Surprisingly i haven't got any letter from D. about Oqood!
> 
> Thanks to all for your updates,
> reg.


when did you invest in Dheeraj ?


----------



## True Blue

UK_TO_DUBAI said:


> Prices of Dubai Marina apartments rise
> 
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1242009_b0de9517d0874e16b978d9c9b1e73501.aspx


Marina prices rise up to 38%. My sainted RRRRR's

Pre edited press release due for release this time next year!

That is what I like about the local press, they even give you sneak previews of next years news


----------



## moscowboy

what is PJA?
some kind of building?


----------



## iownyou

moscowboy said:


> what is PJA?
> some kind of building?


palm jabel ali


----------



## moscowboy

According to this TV program, the first palm shaped island has been completed and all the proposed buildings and infra structures have been finished and handed over to buyers. Now, that is a finished project.

Then there is this PJA, which has been started. Island has been built. But, no buildings and no infra structure has been built. And it is is not going to be completed. 

Then there was another palm island which was never even started and won't be built.

And then there was a group of islands called the world. That has been completed and handed over to customers. But, nobody has built anything on those islands .

Is this an accurate description of what happened in Dubai?


----------



## Philippa C

Wannaberich said:


> Arabian Ranches villa prices rise up to 50%.
> Marina prices rise up to 38%.
> Sounds too good to be true.hno:


Prices in the Ranches have not gone up that much but my friend who specilaises in the Ranches has sold three villas this week End of last year a 5 bed villa in the Ranches was selling for 3.5mil now they are between 4.2 and 4.8M, depending on the garden and the condition of the villa.


----------



## xingu

moscowboy said:


> According to this TV program, the first palm shaped island has been completed and all the proposed buildings and infra structures have been finished and handed over to buyers. Now, that is a finished project.
> 
> Then there is this PJA, which has been started. Island has been built. But, no buildings and no infra structure has been built. And it is is not going to be completed.
> 
> Then there was another palm island which was never even started and won't be built.
> 
> And then there was a group of islands called the world. That has been completed and handed over to customers. But, nobody has built anything on those islands .
> 
> Is this an accurate description of what happened in Dubai?


No, not quite

Palm Jumeirah is not 'complete' yet

Palm Jebel Ali is pretty much as you said

Palm Deira reclaimation work is substantially done as I understand.

The World reclaimation work has been done, thats about all, aside from Sheik Mo's island/villa which is built and finished. Most of the Islands have now been sold yes.


----------



## DXBQuantum

xingu said:


> No, not quite
> 
> Palm Jumeirah is not 'complete' yet
> 
> Palm Jebel Ali is pretty much as you said
> 
> Palm Deira reclaimation work is substantially done as I understand.
> 
> The World reclaimation work has been done, thats about all, aside from Sheik Mo's island/villa which is built and finished. Most of the Islands have now been sold yes.


its not his villa, its owned by Nakheel as a show home / island to show prospective clients...


----------



## Wannaberich

Philippa C said:


> Prices in the Ranches have not gone up that much but my friend who specilaises in the Ranches has sold three villas this week End of last year a 5 bed villa in the Ranches was selling for 3.5mil now they are between 4.2 and 4.8M, depending on the garden and the condition of the villa.


Its interesting that Dubais property price rises/falls can vary so much for different areas for somewhere thats so small.Whilst AR and the Marina are supposedly seeing big increases?,other areas have bottomed out and are not moving.I can understand why so with AR as there is a shortage of villas plus a villa in other parts of Dubais just isnt the same as an AR villa,but as for the Marina,there are zillions of appartments in Dubai and thousands at the Marina.
Maybe its just certain types of villas and certain buildings in the Marina that are seeing increases.


----------



## True Blue

I believe prices are rising in the marina but only slightly. That Emirates Business 24/7 article is so flawed it is un true, yet it is being replicated all over this forum like it is some kind of lottery win for everyone.

It states that the prices of 1 beds in Dorrabay and Elite residence are listed for X amount, yet they are comparing a completed unit to an offplan with years to go to completion. Everyone in real estate knows that Elite residence is almost impossible to sell as it is so far from completion.

Then we have the reference to the price of sub 1.2M for a 2 bed at Marina Promenade in Jan 09, NO WAY! That price is bogus and the evidence I would site is I got an unsolicited offer for my 2 bed Dorrabay for 1.65M at that same time. The entire conclusions are drawn from listed prices and not actual sales data so the whole article is a distortion of the facts aimed at giving the market a bit of a booster.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Abu Dhabi is limiting construction to avoid the housing glut and price declines that battered the real estate market in neighboring Dubai, Aldar Properties PJSC Chief Executive Officer John Bullough said. 

The Emirate has a shortage of 15,000 to 20,000 units and the government will let the “rope out on development in a measured way,” Bullough, whose company is the United Arab Emirates’ second-biggest developer, said in an interview. “There will be, in our view, a lag between supply and demand.” 

Abu Dhabi, the U.A.E.’s capital and holder of 8 percent of the world’s oil reserves, controls development from homes to offices and transportation links under “Plan 2030,” devised in 2007. The plan foresees the population growing to as much as 5 million by 2030 from an estimated 1.6 million in 2008. 

“There is a short-term question mark, but then there is a medium- to long-term suitability,” Aldar Chief Financial Officer Shafqat Malik said in an interview last week at the company’s Abu Dhabi headquarters. “What we saw over here is the doubling of rents and prices. Is this a sustainable way for any economy to grow? The answer is probably no.” 

Aldar said it plans to deliver 3,500 homes and 140,000 square meters (1.5 million square feet) of commercial space over the next 18 to 24 months. Abu Dhabi’s government owns 18.9 percent of Aldar through Mubadala Development Co. and 7.2 percent through state fund manager Abu Dhabi Investment Co., according to the emirate’s exchange.

More here: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a_6kmUb3D9yI&pos=7


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*UAE real estate market has now hit bottom - analysts*

The UAE's real estate market has bottomed out and will begin to recover in 2010, according to economic analysts speaking at a panel discussion in Dubai on Wednesday.

“I think the real estate market has bottomed [and] I include Dubai in that,” Neven Hendricks, COO at Deloitte Corporate Finance Ltd - MENA region, said on the sidelines of the Dubai Knowledge Village Breakfast Club panel discussion.

“I see real estate market trending upwards gradually towards the end of 2010,” he added.

Hendricks said he believed that speculators have been chased out of the market and are being replaced by end-users.

“I don’t think everyone is going to rush back into the market. You will see a loosening of credit in 2010 and you will find more buyers in Dubai who have a long term interest in the future of Dubai. Those buyers will come back into the market and that will encourage property values,” he said.

Marios Maratheftis, regional head of research at Standard Chartered Bank, also believed the market had bottomed out but he did expect a quick recovery or a return to the levels seen in 2008.

Maratheftis said the UAE government should introduce regulations to prevent any future fluctuations. He advocated a change in the deposit structure, where buyers pay more upfront to invest in a project, and the introduction of a capital gains tax for flippers who buy and sell within a short period.

Collier’s recent Dubai House Price Index for the third quarter of 2009 found that while prices were down 47 percent year-on-year, they rose 7 percent compared to the second quarter and the volume of transactions grew 64 percent in the same period.

Figures from the Dubai Land Department, announced on Tuesday, showed the total value of apartment and villa sales in Dubai in October rose by more than 50 percent compared to the previous month.

However, UBS said earlier this month that the Dubai market may take a decade to return to peak levels, due to the amount of oversupply in the market. 

www.arabianbusiness.com/574548-uae-real-estate-market-has-hit-bottom---analysts


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> I see no reason why 2008 peak prices can't be achieved again in premium developments within a 3-5 year timeframe.


If interest rates were the same as in the west,2-3%,plus Dubai started to issue worthwhile visas,then 3-5 years could become 1-2 years.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I thnk you can forget about visas now that Abu Dhabi have the upper hand.

But don't know how Abu Dhabi expects to grow population to 5 million without them.


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> Abu Dhabi is limiting construction to avoid the housing glut and price declines that battered the real estate market in neighboring Dubai, Aldar Properties PJSC Chief Executive Officer John Bullough said.


What a great position AD is in.They have the advantage of learning from the mistakes of Dubai and doing things differently.Build gradually,release units slowly and in tandom with a rising population.Dont allow a scenario of oversupply.Screen developers,weed out the crooks.Have escrow etc from the start.Plan projects and neigbourhoods correctly instead of just throwing up thousands of units randomly.Build infrastructure, power,water,roads etc first
and avoid completed units handed over without services including phone/internet.
They have zillions to spend,dont have to borrow,can spend whatever on tourism projects etc without needing outside investment.
AD has the capability of becoming what Dubai could have become had the goverment planned expanison in a more considered way.
At the moment they dont have the same profile as Dubai.A place which in the last 5 years has really become well known.The tallest building,biggest mall,Palm J,parties,glamour,its all in Dubai at the moment.AD could easily take over in the next few years.
Question is AD doesn't need outside money,doesn't need to build to attract investors/tourists,so will they bother to compete?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> Question is AD doesn't need outside money,doesn't need to build to attract investors/tourists,so will they bother to compete?


Abu Dhabi also wants to diversify its economy away from oil as oil will not be worth very much in 30 years time etc. They want toursists now.

http://www.wam.ae/servlet/Satellite..._E_Layout&parent=Query&parentid=1135099399852


----------



## 234sale

Please consider the fact that 

a = Number of handed over properties per year (estimated 50,000 yearly)

b = Amount to finnance per unit ( estimated 1 Million AED)

y = ?

a x b = y

could be upto 50 Bililon AED per year for the next 3 years. Where is this cash going to come from. 

Maybe HT can help me...


----------



## jagmp

^^

I thought there are mostly cash buyers in Dubai.If world economy improves and doller weakens there will be more buyers from the west.Moreover lot of gcc buyers and people from other middle east countries want to hide there cash in Dubai.

So far how many units are completed? What is the proportion of cash buy vs mortgagge purchase.That will give some indication how much banks need to lend.


----------



## Wannaberich

234sale said:


> a = Number of handed over properties per year (estimated 50,000 yearly)


Who's to say.


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> I know about DSO so from someone who obviously knows what he's talking about I'm interested to know why you think its a buy.


A 30 second sale pitch for DSO goes something like this....

How many communities in Dubai have decent yet affordable B-grade (compared to Dubai Marina or Downtown) housing for sale? There's parts of International City, DSO, Sports City, parts of Falcon City and City of Arabia, Discovery Gardens, Jumeirah Village, IMPZ, Furjan, Liwan and co, parts of JLT, maybe parts of Dubai Marina. I might have missed something but it's not important because:

- How many of those projects have a functioning infrastructure?
- How many have a growing business district?
- Any large universities and schools inside and nearby?
- Functioning town centers? 
- How many are within 15 minutes drive from the Dubai Airport, BDB and other central areas of Dubai? 
- How many of those are freezones where you can open your own business next door to your home? How many of those allow your business to be licensed in DED yet still be inside their territory? 

The correct answer is - 1 - Dubai Silicon Oasis. There are some drawbacks of course, mainly the 99 year leasehold rule (which is only a real drawback because it throws some people off), but overall, DSO is the best in its class by far. And considering there's stable demand for quality, yet affordable housing AND considering the fact that there are some real bargains out there right now, DSO is a BUY for me.


----------



## Wannaberich

Good post P.
One thing I would add is that DSO seems to be devoid of the crooks that have blighted somewhere like JV.


----------



## shagdash

In the short term as in 1-2 years, more supply will hit the market, specially apartments. 

All those units in Executive Towers, in and around the Torch, Marina Pinnacle, MAG 218, JLT etc. There simply isn't enough demand to absorb all those units. This will put a further downward pressure on rents and then on prices. Once they've been sitting unrented for a few months, owners will be cut their losses and run.

Only two scenarios in which the above case won't be played out.

One - They somehow stop these units from hitting the market as long as they can (I think this is already the case as buildings are more or less ready but they drag their feet in doing the handovers so a supply glut doesn't hit the market all at the same time)

Two - Miraculously more new people enter Dubai creating demand for rented properties. In any event creating demand for buying seems quite unlikely as those already in Dubai with an intention to buy have bought. Those who come in new are unlikely to buy right away and those outside Dubai simply have better and more secure investment opportunities currently.

In the long term, 5-10 years, if they have put a stop to all new construction projects, then prices will rise (maybe even to peak 2008 levels). However, if they do not have new construction projects then how will Emaar, Nakheel and others survive. Essentially that means curtains for them. And between curtains for state-owned big developers and a few small investors, guess who do you think they will choose.


----------



## baba toto

porshe911 said:


> Hi
> I Don’t think this small project will ever be built ..no way ..
> If they have built one floor each year ,they would finish…
> 4 years we only hear a bunch of lie .. the developer has the
> Land and the money + profit to done this project ,but he
> Prefer to lie than work…


I agree 100%. Checkout this newpaper article about another DEC project: www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090807/NATIONAL/708069831/1040 

:bash:


----------



## Richard Head

^^ Not only is "two" not as miraculous as you might think, but it's already happening. The mass exodus that was supposed to happen over the last few months was completely overblown, of course some people left, but more are arriving. The roads are as busy as they have always been, despite whatever effect the Metro might have had, and plenty of companies are still recruiting from overseas, apart from one or two sectors.

And who says Emaar and Nakheel have to survive? In all likelihood they won't, at least not in their current form, for many reasons. Not least of which is that no contractor will ever work for them again, which is one of the key reasons off-plan is toast.


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> Good post P.
> One thing I would add is that DSO seems to be devoid of the crooks that have blighted somewhere like JV.


DSO had a more conservative approach to selling plots. JV was, essentially, a giant flip sale - take 5% deposits for each district from big investors and let them flip individual plots 6 months later. Not to mention that in 2006, DSO had completed all internal roads and had an established Emirates Airlines village within it so even though many plots are empty, it doesn't look like a giant sand pit under construction ala JV or Sports City.


----------



## Ali_Syed

you can either pay the land registry now, or just before handover.

for the maintenance for rental purposes, i believe they are around 10% of your rent.


----------



## peacesells

Richard Head said:


> And who says Emaar and Nakheel have to survive? In all likelihood they won't, at least not in their current form, for many reasons. Not least of which is that no contractor will ever work for them again, which is one of the key reasons off-plan is toast.


Off-plan as we knew it before is essentially illegal now. You can't sell a thing without getting the project to 20% completion (as far as I recall, the % may have changed now). 

Emaar were wise enough to diversify away from development as far back as 2004 so even though development is now defunct, there's plenty of other revenue streams that will keep them afloat. Nakheel is a whole different story and I am fairly certain they will fail - by fail I mean merged with the whole Emaar/DP/Tatweer company that is forming as we speak. I wonder what they will do with Limitless, it seemed their international division was doing ok for itself.


----------



## wittyman

234sale said:


> Please consider the fact that
> 
> a = Number of handed over properties per year (estimated 50,000 yearly)
> 
> b = Amount to finnance per unit ( estimated 1 Million AED)
> 
> y = ?
> 
> a x b = y
> 
> could be upto 50 Bililon AED per year for the next 3 years. Where is this cash going to come from.
> 
> Maybe HT can help me...


I am a bit confused here. Most of those units to be handed over are already sold to somebody anyway either for cash or via done mortgage deal. I do not think everybody will rush to sell his unit once it is handed over. Those put on market will only be a (small) fraction of handed over units. Most people who have an intention to sell will wait fpr prices to improve if they can.


----------



## Akasha

Hello,

I have a question. I invested in a 1 bed apartment in the Mediterranean building in CRW. Completion was meant to be Dec 2008 and now it's looking April 2010, but I really can't see it as it'll take longer than that to get all the utilities sorted.

I really really don't know whether to sit tight, try an offload it, or try to use the 'get out' clause in the contract, which states that the developer may extend the completion date by 6 months, then another 6 months, but at the 1 year mark you may if you wish, within 30 days submit that you wish to terminate the agreement. I'm going to take all the documentation to RERA and see what they say.

Just wondering if anyone has tried this?


----------



## 234sale

Banks have agreed to finnance, but now the final installment is due.

50,000 units a year for all of Dubai's development is conservative IMO


----------



## Wannaberich

agod said:


> Not quite, my one, has tried insisting that I take out insurance to cover the cost of me dying on them, and then failing to pay the payment plan, they also want me to pay the cost of Electrical connections, i.e the sub station, but not at completion, they want it now, I wont name them, but it ryhmes with Demon.
> 
> Alan


Your problems are small compared to the horror stories that have come out of JV.
Personally I think Cambridge is a good project.


----------



## Wannaberich

dubaimat said:


> LONDON — The government of Dubai, in a blunt acknowledgment of the severity of its financial position, said on Wednesday that it had asked its banks for a six-month stay on its schedule of debt repayments.


Confirming that Dubai isnt doing so well.Well breaking news,nor is the rest of the world.No doubt the west are loving this.
Maybe Sheiky should have mentioned this in his glorious speech the other day.


----------



## sidxb

Dubai_Steve said:


> Although I think the scary thing is that they may not pay the debts of at all, so leaving a $80billion debt to the west and banks.


Not a problem as afterall west made abudhabi , qatar , dubai or in general ME buy bust banks and junk companies from 2006 to 2008 :lol:


----------



## Wannaberich

Imre said:


> :lol::cheers:
> 
> Hopefully I will have a ride soon but still discussing about the money.
> 
> One of the real estate agency asked some new aerial photos but they want to pay just the seawings which is around 1000 dhs .
> 
> I think the helicopter would be better but that one is 3200 dhs so it seems thats a big money for them now
> 
> No sales , just viewing.


Imre your pictures are so well known you must get alot of agencies/development companies asking for you to take photos?
I wonder how much chopper shoot charge.Maybe you should contact some of these companies to see if they want some ariel shots?At least it would pay for your heli ride.


----------



## coalmine

Imre said:


> I am not a 'panic people' , I started to invest in 2004 here and everything is just going on what I planned in the beginning.
> 
> I was very lucky ,I had some problems in this year but I restructured my portfolio so now just need to relax again


Imre I like you also invested in 2004 and sold at the end of 2007. 

Can you please tell me where you see the best deals now? what is the cheapest price you can find for a 1 bed apartment in Dubai Marina? I am looking to buy soon if I can get a good deal. How about the Marina Diamonds are these cheap.


----------



## social

peacesells said:


> Guys, you are reading this whole thing wrong - they will ASK the investors to postpone. They are not defaulting, they are not saying we won't pay when due, they are ASKING to postpone. There's about 30 billion more to pay in the next 2 years so I doubt they will be intentionally defaulting the relatively small payment that Nakheel owes (intentionally because it's not like they can't raise that money to pay if they really wanted to).
> 
> Conspiracy theory option:
> 
> Nakheel defaults, rest of debt is down-graded and put out in the market for peanuts. AD steps in and buys it all for peanuts. Dubai wins, everyone else loses.


It is an act of default to do so

In any event, virtually all of Dubai Inc's debts have full recourse to the holding company and many loans have been in default for quite a while

In summary, Dubai is in deep shit


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> Guys, you are reading this whole thing wrong - they will ASK the investors to postpone. They are not defaulting


From a post in another website:

'that's a very bad news. Under credit derivatives terminology, *this would be **classified as a default*. No wonder the cost of insuring against a default of Dubai has just jumped to 429bps, well above Iceland. Let's see what they come up with after l'EID. 
In the meantime, markets across the globe don't seem to enjoy the news'


----------



## jacobdxb

anybody know the current prices of apartments in the just finished Marina Mall Hotel (The Address Dubai Marina)? I'd like to know actual sale prices and not just peoples wishfull asking prices...


----------



## moscowboy

The problems of Dubai comes from the fact that their money is linked to US dollars which is steadily falling.


----------



## social

Wannaberich said:


> Confirming that Dubai isnt doing so well.Well breaking news,nor is the rest of the world.No doubt the west are loving this.
> Maybe Sheiky should have mentioned this in his glorious speech the other day.


It'll be interesting to see whether any lawsuits come of the comments made by VVIPs etc

All have said that Dubai could meet its obligations as and when they fall due

As investors have bought the bonds on the back of these statements and some are now potentially facing big losses, that could have legal ramifications and people have gone to jail in the west for less 

Naturally, the critical point will be which court has jurisdiction over these actions


----------



## social

moscowboy said:


> The problems of Dubai and all of ME comes from the fact that they make money from oil sales, then they invest that money in USA. America forces them to buy unnecessary arms (like billions of dollars worth of fighter jets) which they do not need and they do not know how to use, and totally worthless investments which are guaranteed losers (like real estate in Las vegas and in bankrupt AMD and European port operations).
> By wasting their money, they have now financial problems.
> 
> compare this with Japan or Korea. They do not waste their money. So, they are in better position.


Sorry but most of this post is totally incorrect


----------



## basheer.mohammad

Akasha said:


> They say 6 - 9 months, but people I've spoken to thata re close to the project say this time and then some, more likely end of 2010.
> 
> And yes beyond 6 to 12 months delay the developer is supposed to compensate you by 2% each quarter!


Is this 2% compensation per quarter standard in all the contracts? Can we press the developer for it?


----------



## mackie1964

*Respect Don God*



agod said:


> God it must be bad, Jeremy Paxman just annouced it on newsnight tonight.
> 
> Dubai world in trouble, and the Big Guy is in London at this moment, having dinner at the Mansion House, could he be holding out his hand there, no point really, as they are just as skint............might be selling some of his prime UK real estate, heh Mackie want to make an offer on the west end hotels.
> 
> Al.


He is doing the right thing at the moment, believe it or not. Listening to some decent advice, surrounding himself by some new blood and sidelining some of his henchmen that coved up quite a lot of the issues. Two more big pieces of bad news to come out and then the road to recovery starts.

One thing for sure, my beloved Dubai will never be the same again but stopping the cover-ups is a very positive move for a start. :cheers:


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Agree with that, whenever I got to Orlando for example. I always hire a car and usually drive 1 hour down to Busch Gardens in Tampa for the day. I think it wouldbe the same for Dubai. I would prefer to stay in Dubai (close to a beach perhaps) and then take a 1 hour drive to Ferarri Wrold or Disneyland etc. for the day. Would never use a train but I would maybe use the Dubai metro to go from my holiday apartment in the marina to Burj Dubai for the day to go to the observation deck, do some shopping then dinner by the fountain though, even if I had a car.


Like I said,personally I think Dubai is way too dangerous for tourists to get a hire car.
A railway linking the emirates would be fantastic but expensive and years to build.
Plan B which is a quicker,cheaper,instant option would be to supply a bunch of tourist coaches/buses like they do in other cities.If you have pick up/drop of points at various sites around Dubai which could quickly and cheaply transport tourists to the other emirates then this could really open up the UAE for more tourists.Expecting them to hire a car is no good.You have to almost take the goods to the people and not expect vice versa.After all the only reason Ryanair is so successful is that there are buses to transport passengers from the out of the way airports they fly to right into the city centre.If they were left to make their own way it just wouldn't work.
The main point here is that the UAE should start to market itself as one tourist destination and not as individual states.


----------



## noir-dresses

Just watching CNN live, there calling it the Dubai Debt Crisis with big head lines. It caught everybody off gaurd, most stock markets in europe are down because of this bad news. 

They say every one thought everything was under control in Dubai :bash:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2009/11/26/defterios.dubai.world.wrap.cnn

Will post fresh info once market place middle east is out


----------



## Hanna

*David Beckham and Brad Pitt among celebrities caught up in Dubai developer's debt crisis*

David Beckham and Brad Pitt are believed to be among the stars caught up in Dubai's spiralling credit crisis.
The pair have seen the value of property they bought in the Gulf plummet as Dubai struggles under a mountain of debt.
Things have now gone from bad to worse after Nakheel, the island's developer, and its parent company Dubai World yesterday made a request to suspend debt repayments. Palm Jumeirah in 2007. Property developer Nakheel and its parent company Dubai World have made a request to suspend debt repayments The Dubai government has been forced to call in accountants Deloitte to advise on a financial restructuring, as its economy buckles under $80billion of debt.Dubai World, the conglomerate which was the driving force behind the emirate's rapid expansion, is asking creditors to give it some breathing space on the $59billion of loans racked up by the firm and its subsidiary Nakheel.The concern is that Nakheel will be unable to continue developing the Palm Jumeirah and other neighbouring projects, leaving Dubai a construction site.The request for a 'standstill agreement' on the debt has raised fears that the state could default on some of its loans. David Beckham and Brad Pitt are believed to be among the stars who bought villas on the Palm Jumeirah
This could cause a major crisis of confidence in the region at the time when the global economic recovery remains fragile. It may raise the prospect of further losses at banks that have loaned to Dubai World.As well as Beckham and Pitt, footballers Michael Owen, Joe Cole, Andy Cole, David James and Kieron Dyer are all thought to have bought homes on the manmade island.Dubai World accounts for the bulk of Dubai's debt, having geared up to invest in property and finance. It also owns DP World, owner of the former P&O ports operator.
It has been widely assumed that Dubai's neighbour Abu Dhabi, the capital of the United Arab Emirates, would provide further loans. But now investors are not so sure. It has already bailed out Dubai with $10billion this year.Towering above the Dubai skyline, the world's tallest man-made construction edges closer to completion Work on the tower has slowed in the wake of the credit crisis, but developers insist it will open 'soon' . In addition to the tower itself, the Downtown Burj Dubai development, which includes The Dubai Mall - the world's largest The cost of insuring Dubai's debt against default soared yesterday. Also in Abu Dhabi, the price of insuring its own debt rose, so it now costs $134,600 per year to insure $10million of its sovereign debt.Deloitte has flown out a specialist team from London to work on the restructuring. A spokesman said: 'We can confirm that Aidan Birkett, managing director for corporate finance at Deloitte, has been appointed chief restructuring officer to Dubai World.' Dubai World is likely to be forced into asset sales after the credit crisis triggered a crash in the value of its property assets and decimated finance and tourism in the state. House prices in Dubai slumped by 47 per cent in the second quarter, compared with a year ago.The Atlantis hotel stands at the foot of Palm Jumeirah The World in Dubai, as seen from a satellite, on the 14th of May 2009. A multi-billion pound development designed to make Dubai the envy of the world has ground to a halt The Dubai government last week removed the chairmen of Dubai Holding and Dubai World, two large state-owned firms. 
The emirate is due to repay $4.3billion in loans next month and another $4.9billion in the first quarter of 2010, according to Deutsche Bank.Shakeel Sarwar, head of asset management at SICO Investment Bank said: 'It's shocking because for the past few months the news coming out has given investors comfort that Dubai would most probably be able to meet its debt obligations.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...bai-developers-debt-crisis.html#ixzz0XyUvPXOx


----------



## True Blue

^^Sensationalist journalism headline grabbers.

David Beckham and Brad Pitt will not have lost any money. Beckham bought his villa for about £750,000 and it is still worth minimum £1.5M. Do you think he is giving a shit about the property crash when he bought at the bottom not the top of the market. So not caught up in the debt crisis is the truth of the matter.


----------



## Wannaberich

*Dubai crash hits Becks & fellow stars*
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2747441/Dubai-crash-hits-Becks-fellow-stars.html

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...ughtToBeHitByPropertyCrash&lpos=searchresults


Errrr,whats with this obsession with the UK media to always link Dubai with that dimwit David Beckham.
(Someone please tell them the Beckhams no longer own that villa !)


----------



## Wannaberich

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/142633/Sheikh-Mohammad-s-Delegator-disqualified

^^
Forget bankruptcy.Sheikys got real problems.


----------



## dubaimat

*Dubai Debt Fears Hit World Markets Hard*

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: November 26, 2009

Filed at 10:01 a.m. ET

LONDON (AP) -- World stock markets fell sharply Thursday as investors fretted over the debt problems at Dubai World, a government investment company, and the continued fall in the dollar.

Markets are usually relatively quiet when Wall Street is closed for a holiday, as it is Thursday for Thanksgiving Day -- not so today.

In Europe, the FTSE 100 index of leading British shares was down 116.65 points, or 2.2 percent, at 5,248.16, having been out of action earlier for over three hours because of technical problems.

Germany's DAX fell 129.45 points, or 2.2 percent, to 5,673.57 while the CAC-40 in France was 85.17 points, or 2.2 percent, lower at 3,723.99.

Earlier in Asia, the Shanghai index tanked 119.19 points, or 3.6 percent, to close at 3,170.98, its biggest one-day fall since August 31, while Hong Kong's Hang Seng shed 1.8 percent to 22,210.41.

Sentiment in stocks has been dented by the news that Dubai World, which is thought to have debts totaling around $60 billion, has asked creditors if it can postpone its forthcoming payments until May. That has stoked fears of a potential default and contagion around the global financial system, particularly in emerging markets.

''Certainly the Dubai debt debacle and the uncertainty that it has created has had a severe knock on effect,'' said David Buik, markets analyst at BGC Partners.

Investors were also keeping a close eye on developments in the currency markets as the dollar slid to a new 14-year low of 86.27 yen, while the euro pushed up to a fresh 15-month high of $1.5141. By mid afternoon London time, the dollar had recouped some ground and was trading at 86.72 yen, down 0.7 percent on the day, while the euro was 0.6 percent lower at $1.5046.

The continued appreciation in the value of the yen continues to dent Japanese stocks as investors worry that the rising currency will have a detrimental effect on the country's exports. Japan's Nikkei 225 stock average fell 58.40 points, or 0.6 percent, to 9,383.24.

Kit Juckes, chief economist at ECU Group, said the developments in Dubai and in the currency markets are related as the fall in risk appetite has pushed money into government bonds and into safe haven currencies such as the Swiss franc and the yen.

This, he said, is ''testing the tolerance of central banks to see their currencies cause further damage to their economies.''

Already there has been unconfirmed talk in the markets that the Swiss National Bank has intervened to buy dollars to prevent the export-sapping appreciation of the Swiss franc.

Meanwhile, Japanese Finance Minister Hirohisa Fujii tried to assure the market he was closely monitoring the situation and would ''take appropriate steps if foreign exchange rates move abnormally.'' But that did little to ease investor worries.

Across all markets, there is a growing awareness that investors may use the upcoming year-end to lock-in whatever profits have been made over the last 12 months.

Gold, one of the biggest high-flyers over the last few months, continued to rise as it garnered renewed support from its safe haven status. It hit a new record high of $1,196.8 an ounce, before falling back modestly. By mid afternoon London time, gold was down 0.1 percent at $1,186.30 an ounce.

Oil also fell alongside stocks -- the two have traded alongside each other for much of this year. Benchmark crude for January delivery was down 92 cents, or 1.1 percent, at $77.04 a barrel. On Wednesday, it rose $1.94.

Elsewhere in Asia, markets in Australia, Singapore, Taiwan and Indonesia closed lower.

------

AP Business Writer Writer Jeremiah Marquez contributed to this report from Hong Kong. 

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/11/26/business/AP-World-Markets.html?_r=1


----------



## Imre

coalmine said:


> Imre I like you also invested in 2004 and sold at the end of 2007.
> 
> Can you please tell me where you see the best deals now? what is the cheapest price you can find for a 1 bed apartment in Dubai Marina? I am looking to buy soon if I can get a good deal. How about the Marina Diamonds are these cheap.


Dubai Marina is good ,most of people just know that area in Dubai  

You can check the dubizzle.com or expatriates.com , you will find some good deals.

Marina Diamonds quality is not perfect but still those apartments have the best rental income in Dubai Marina.


----------



## True Blue

Wannaberich said:


> *Dubai crash hits Becks & fellow stars*
> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2747441/Dubai-crash-hits-Becks-fellow-stars.html
> 
> http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...ughtToBeHitByPropertyCrash&lpos=searchresults
> 
> 
> Errrr,whats with this obsession with the UK media to always link Dubai with that dimwit David Beckham.
> (Someone please tell them the Beckhams no longer own that villa !)


Are you sure about Beck's villa? Last I heard Victoria's parents had moved into it. Whether they bought it from them or not I don't know but they are wealthy in their own right.

BTW how many people take their financial advice from The Sun newspaper:lol: They just love to see middle class and upper class fall on bad luck, that's what makes good news to the working classes and unemployed who are their main fan base.


----------



## williteverbebuiltnow

social said:


> It is an act of default to do so
> 
> In any event, virtually all of Dubai Inc's debts have full recourse to the holding company and many loans have been in default for quite a while
> 
> In summary, Dubai is in deep shit


^^^^^^

No. In fact peace sells is correct. 

The "event of default" in terms of the CDS market, is only if they fail to pay on borrowed money. I.E. only if the borrower wants them to repay and they don't. The current situation is that they have "requested" a standstill. The market may well say "no, i don't want to extend my debt to you" if they fail to pay in this instance then it is an event of default....though i think you may well see a lot of arm twisting, and a sweetner from Dubai in order that the Sukuk and other loans are extended into next year....


----------



## Imre

Freestyler said:


> Good hear mate kay:


Thanks for your help again 

:cheers:


----------



## rags

True Blue said:


> ^^Sensationalist journalism headline grabbers.
> 
> David Beckham and Brad Pitt will not have lost any money. Beckham bought his villa for about £750,000 and it is still worth minimum £1.5M. Do you think he is giving a shit about the property crash when he bought at the bottom not the top of the market. So not caught up in the debt crisis is the truth of the matter.


To the best of my knowledge, these guys hardly pay for their properties. The developers announce their names on the billboards and for this privilege these guys get some fee and/or properties pretty much for free depending on their contractual arrangements. 

It is shocking that even Trump involves himself in a development just for a year or two for a massive fee, allows his name to be used for a tower and then pulls out of his involvement quietly although the name of the tower (with his name) stays. The public buys into the building thinking Trump is involved while in reality that may not be the case.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dont' worry, Gordon Brown will give some good advice :runaway:

Maybe Gordon can help by starting up the money printing machine again.


----------



## FWIW

rags said:


> To the best of my knowledge, these guys hardly pay for their properties. The developers announce their names on the billboards and for this privilege these guys get some fee and/or properties pretty much for free depending on their contractual arrangements.
> 
> It is shocking that even Trump involves himself in a development just for a year or two for a massive fee, allows his name to be used for a tower and then pulls out of his involvement quietly although the name of the tower (with his name) stays. The public buys into the building thinking Trump is involved while in reality that may not be the case.


Smoke and mirrors are everywhere.

Even this delay 'request' has the cynic in me thinking that somone somewhere must be cashing in their CDS's... for every loser there must be a winner?

And if the investors say no to this request, then what? They pay up as planned anyway (via AD money) and then everyone forgets this delay request?

Looks to me as if some banksters want to get a holiday home on the cheap. If you have to sell, then you have to sell. Some of us are looking at the longer term picture.


----------



## Philippa C

They say even bad publicity is good publicity. Everyone, everywhere now knows about the Palm Jumeriah and that property prices in Dubai have nose dived. They'll have seen nice pics of Burj Dubai, Atlantis and the Palm. It might encourage some people to buy here!


----------



## noir-dresses

Its kind of funny watching CNN, first you see the business news and dubai's in the head line with cash strapped, not honouring there debt. Then a commercial comes along with how good dubai is, and the golf tournament. :nuts:

I bet this was hard for alot of ego's to swallow, being seen on all the head line news around the world as all show, but no go. They should never of allowed for this to of ever reached this level. One year of marketing dubai as the place to be for nothing.


----------



## amplesou

And yes beyond 6 to 12 months delay the developer is supposed to compensate you by 2% each quarter!

DM10, as I said, read through your contracts, there are get out clauses if it's delayed beyond a year. I'm going to RERA next week to see where I stand with putting that into action. I'll let you know.[/QUOTE]

Possession and risk!
the contract states the following!
The (D.Sc.) seller reserves the right to extend the anticipated completion date by a period of up to six months ,or to make additional extensions due to delays in construction of the building !

There is nothing in your contract that states "And yes beyond 6 to 12 months delay the developer is supposed to compensate you by 2% each quarter!"
Who says that you are in-tiled to 2 % per qtr ? yourself / Rera /dubai law/ ! 
Dream on


----------



## Wannaberich

Its all over the UK TV news tonight.The Dubai goverment need to reasure the markets etc before too much damage is done.
It pisses me off that the west don't take into account alot of the
problems were caused by the global financial crisis.We all know too much was built and too soon.Alot of projects were unneccessary,those that were needed like Dubailand never got off the ground.However if the financial crisis which has screwed up most countries had not occured then Dubai would be in a much better state.
I dont want to hear that Dubais dreams were unrealistic just because the west doesnt have the guts or immagination to build a PJ or Burj Dubai.
I would hate for Dubai to become like the west and be too scared to build these amazing structures.


----------



## iownyou

imre i think i know what your going to answer on this i personaly dont see a big deal out of it i am sure they will repay it and we will all forget about it later on but what do you think about this deal that the goverment wants to delay the repayment 6 months?
to me is funny i would have expected since everything in dubai has been delayed by at least six months

:lol:


----------



## noir-dresses

If you think it threw a little better, maybe it's good to restructure, fire staff, shuffle some people around, and fix the real problem from the core, and then pay off debt's later.

Why keep throwing money at some thing that does'nt function the same as before, there's billion's of dollar's at stake, so do it rite this time.

There's tooooo many fat, over paid, useless, lazy, government reliant money spending people in Dubai that should of got the boot a long time ago. Bring in a leaner, and meaner operation that can adopt a better policy of economic's to get them threw the turbulance, and into better times.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Is Dubai the “New Lehmans”? Not quite, at least on the broad numbers. Lehmans went down with debts of $500bn; the disarray in Dubai looks like losing everyone involved about $80bn, certainly not much when set against the $2,700bn ($2.7trillion) of banking losses accumulated over this crisis. 

But the blow to confidence, at a time when the world is trying to crawl out of the worst downturn in three quarters of a century, is far more grievous. It has already shaken the stock markets; the fear now gripping them has the potential to induce more panic and set back recovery by months, if not years. That is prospect too horrible to contemplate. 

Fortunately, we have had sufficient experience of financial crises to know precisely what needs to be done now; swift, bold international action. As with Iceland, the Ukraine, Hungary and many other states, Dubai can and should be saved. The damage is containable. Aid must come from Dubai’s partners in the United Arab Emirates, especially oil-rich Abu Dhabi; from the Gulf Cooperation Council, dominated by Saudi Arabia; and from the IMF. Abu Dhabi’s sovereign wealth fund alone is worth about $700bn, the biggest in the world. So the funds are there to organise some sort of rescue; the political will must be found. 

If the rumours are to be believed, the British banking groups, as you might expect on their past record, are badly exposed to this latest mess, with the obvious potential for yet another substantial bill for the hard-pressed UK taxpayer. So we are entitled to know how much the banks stand to lose in Dubai. Early on in the credit crisis the G20 demanded transparency from the banks about the scale of their losses. Openness might help calm the incipient panic building around the banks once again. In any case, this is a harsh reminder that the credit crunch is far from over; and the global financial system is only functioning at all because it is on life-support provided by governments and central banks. 

Short of oil, Dubai attempted to create an artificial economy from reclaimed land and borrowed capital; but it was unnatural, both economically and environmentally sense. Grand as Palm Island and those imperious tower blocks appear, they are badly devalued collateral, a financial mirage. As our banks are discovering, Dubai is simply sub-prime in the desert. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-ogrady-is-dubai-the-new-lehmans-1828328.html


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## Dubai_Steve

LONDON, Nov 26 (Reuters) - Abu Dhabi is not going to crow publicly over Dubai's troubles. But it will use the opportunity to assert control over its upstart neighbour. The price for Abu Dhabi's help could be prize assets like airline Emirates. Dubai has little choice but to do what it is told.

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSGEE5AP1EV20091126

With the two cities an hour or so apart along the coast of the Persian Gulf, greater cooperation and coordination on development and direction should ultimately be beneficial to them both. Dubai's moment in the sun has passed, now is Abu Dhabi's chance to move out of its shadow.


----------



## noir-dresses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbKHDPPrrc


----------



## mackie1964

The Guys in Abu Dhabi are actually playing a dangerous game, letting it go that far. Dubai's reputation is not the only thing at stake here. Too many things to list but even, dare I say, the union and governmental positions .....etc.

I wonder to what the Saudis are thinking now. They thought that the UAE were getting above their status in recent years. Those of you who understand the Gulf politics will understand what I mean.

I really hate the idea of where this could all end, I pray that it does not. :cheers:

Surely, all of this could be handled in-house and away from the whole world watching, especially the ones that do not want them to succeed. :bash:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

:wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:


----------



## dm10

thanks Akasha and please let me know how you get on with RERA next week! unfortunately i want out for the same reasons you expressed!!


----------



## rags

Wannaberich said:


> Its all over the UK TV news tonight.The Dubai goverment need to reasure the markets etc before too much damage is done.
> It pisses me off that the west don't take into account alot of the
> problems were caused by the global financial crisis.We all know too much was built and too soon.Alot of projects were unneccessary,those that were needed like Dubailand never got off the ground.However if the financial crisis which has screwed up most countries had not occured then Dubai would be in a much better state.
> I dont want to hear that Dubais dreams were unrealistic just because the west doesnt have the guts or immagination to build a PJ or Burj Dubai.
> I would hate for Dubai to become like the west and be too scared to build these amazing structures.


'Caused' by global finacial crisis? That _may_ well be so but there is no certainty as to which is the cause and which is the effect; reckless borrowers or reckless lenders? Whatever it is, the bust would have been far worse if the little armageddon that we have now (credit crisis & crisis of confidence) had merely been postponed. Dubai has been brought to its senses when there is still time for it to hopefully recover. Palm, Burj, etc are projects initiated to satisfy bloated egos and no more. I don't think they ever made economic sense.


----------



## iced

FWIW said:


> I am actually thinking that this storm has been created for a reason.
> 
> Imagine, UAE hate being pegged to the USD witch is being printed at a faster and faster rate. Dubai has massive debts that need paying or rollingover. So let's pretend to fail and then maybe we can drop the peg to USD (which is the currency of a fading empire) and peg on to the Euro, Gold, currency and commodity basket or something else.
> 
> AD maybe using Dubai as leverage to ensure remaining oil is bought with harder currency.
> 
> Who knows? I am just one of the little people and don't really get it when the big boys do things as Alabaar once famously said. Sheik Mo did the best thing to get rid of that t$$t from his board.


good theory, i wish it was true.


----------



## iced

agod said:


> Am I bothered...........no not really.
> What you have to remember is out here they have Oil, so every time you fill up the Phamton (Mackie) or the Maserati (HT), the tills clink out here, Cherclunk......the UAE yearly take is 89 billion, and the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund is sitting on something like 890 billion, (not sure on figures) the Emirates works as one federation, all the Emirates as states will not fail, one will help the other as a matter of course, its not a case of bailing each other out, it will just happen, in the west and UK, in particular, there is nothing, so there debt, which is larger than ours, by a mile, will be paid for by taxing the arse of you, and your children and there children, and there childrens, children.
> 
> To sum up Sheikh Mo went wrong when he invested in the west, by buying up blue chip companies, that have all gone toxic.
> 
> And of course we have the sun, and my view.
> 
> Alan


Really great point about dubai investing outside when they should have reduced debt. Took a risky strategy and it did not pay off. Asset prices will fall to a price which will make it attractive to investors whoever they are and from where. Yes the sun and sand still means happy times.


----------



## baba toto

baba toto said:


> Time we don't have and what is time anyway? - 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, 5 years?. We've already wasted 4 years; That could have been 4 years of rent from another development!!! How much more time??? If they really intent to start contruction anytime soon, then we should be getting regular updates to explain what action they are taking, eg is DEC re-negotiating contracts with sub-contractors? What is going on at DEC on a DAILY BASIS? I mean, if they've not closed office and gone home, then surely, they don't go to office to sit and stare at the walls!!!!
> 
> :bash:


Checkout this quote: 



nelson_fndz said:


> From a personal source, I have heard that these guys will (or already are) bankrupt


Is this the end of the road for our investment?

:badnews:


----------



## Wannaberich

Dubai_Steve said:


> Sources have told AsiaNews that the emir of Abu Dhabi will buy Dubai lock, stock and barrel for US$ 80 billion in two weeks time. The news is still not official.
> 
> http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=16986&geo=6&size=A


If this actually happened am assuming that would be fantastic for Dubai ?
To have AD as the owner with billions and billions in wealth would be incredible and the best possible news.
Lets face it though,it wont happen?


----------



## FWIW

Wannaberich said:


> Your arrogance however never ceases to amaze me.Its good to see you're here joining in adult debate(even if it is with your usual insults)rather than back on that other thread sexually harassing women again.
> If you read my post correctly,I put doubt on whether Dubai would be in such a mess had it not been for the crisis that WAS CAUSED BY AMERICA AND SUBPRIME.Yes Dubai would still have been facing problems but not to this extent I would assume.Thats if we are to believe how serious the
> situation is as has been reported.
> By that way thats only my opinion.I'm not an arrogant moron like yourself
> who will only accept his own viewpoint.
> 
> P.S No doubt your sad little attack is in reply to the humiliation you suffered in the other thread.
> Sad.Bring it on anytime.


he-he!

:banana:

But just to pull you up on one thing wannabe, it's threads - the plural. Please don't forget about that lovely little bradford and bingley bank that went belly up! I still look forward to that drink and a little education, education, education as they say!

I was half expecting a gold is down day attack - looks like people realise that gold is valuable after all (except when you work in the city of london looking after other people's hard earned money that is!)


----------



## Philippa C

Maybe I'm being naive but I think Dubai/Abu Dhabi have a bigger gameplan than what appears at first sight. Many westerners still have a patronizing attitude to Dubai and Arabs that they do really know best in the end. 

It's very easy to criticise Dubai but they basically had the gumption and ability to build a city out of nothing. Look at Jebel Ali port or Dubai Intl Airport. They've managed to create a tourist destination ina desert with an unbearably hot climate for 6 months of the year without any of the traditional tourist attractions such as fantastic scenery or historical buildings. These are not the products of a badly run government. 

It's going to be interesting to see the response to the request for the extension!!


----------



## Wannaberich

FWIW said:


> he-he!
> 
> :banana:
> 
> But just to pull you up on one thing wannabe, it's threads - the plural.


Yeah sorry,threads,I forgot.
Can't wait for her comeback.:guns1:


----------



## glover

the way dubai handled this debt issue is one major screw up that will end up in the history books as a classic blunder of an incompetent management who needs some education about how interconnected everything is in this global economy imo.

how in the world this emirate wants to be a financial hub when they mess up something as simple as this!!

their decision, its timing, and the way they handled it (payment delay request) has caused plenty of damage to dubai, and unless they do some major damage control and a lot of explaining, confidence in this emirate will be shattered for a long time.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

An emergency restructuring team from Deloitte has been called in to help Dubai World, which is estimated to have debts of £36 billion.

Dubai World has admitted it cannot pay its debts and is hoping accountancy group Deloitte can assist in its recovery.

Aiden Birkett, managing partner, corporate finance at Deloitte, has been appointed as chief restructuring officer to Dubai World to oversee the restructuring process.

In a statement, Deloitte said that Mr Birkett's first priority "will be to evaluate the extent of the restructuring required" and he will oversee the process working closely with management, reports the Guardian.

http://www.gaapweb.com/news/2069-Deloitte-called-in-to-help-Dubai-World.html


----------



## iced

High Times said:


> Your ignorance amazes me. If you don't understand what your talking about, then best not to say anything at all in my opinion. All you are doing is providing miss-information to people.
> 
> *Dubai is not a victim of the global credit crisis, it is a cause of the global credit crisis*.
> 
> Dubai, California, Florida,UK, Bulgaria, Spain. Most of the last 5 years of property speculation in these areas have been fuelled by cheap credit and ultra high leveraging. Many institutions and investors have been using leverage to leverage.
> To state that Dubai is failing as a result of the credit crisis is just displaying your ignorane of how the big bad world works.
> 
> A year ago US and UK Banks woke up to alarm bells that all the money they had lent was invested in a global property bubble that was about to burst. What we saw in the West a year ago was Banks failing, and then Governments deciding not to let it happen any more. Some were brave enough to see the oportunity and jump in with both feet and make a killing over the last 12 months, some wernt.
> 
> The differences between the West and Dubai are numerous, culturally, legally and logistically. The main factors that have led to the latest problems are the lack of a free press, senior positions within Government and Companies being awarded to individuals on the basis of their family ties rather than experience and knowledge, and regulatory transparancy.
> 
> The Global crisis in the West was precipitated by a free press causing consumer awareness and ultimately Banks having to come clean about the shit on their books. Dubai has kept all this news under the rug for months becuase the press are not allowed to uncover anything in the UAE.
> 
> Only a few weeks ago I made this point to Sale234 about how tied Dubai is to the West and pondered why he seemed to take delight in watching the UK have it’s problems. Sale was laughing about how UK taxpayers were footing the bill of the bailout. Well, as i said “if the West fails then Dubai fails” it’s just that the UK knows whats happening on a day to day basis due to being a free society.
> 
> The irony is that most of the debt that Dubai cant pay, (sorry would rather not pay until May) is held by the UK Banks that are held up by UK taxpayers money.
> 
> I want to know whats happening in May that will make the debt easier to repay then ? I’m sure Mackie knows but cant say because he is sworn to secrecy.
> 
> In the UAE you are treated like mushrooms, “kept in a dark room and filled with shit”
> 
> Regardless of the question “is this technically a default or not”, (which it is). The world can now see what Dubai really is. A bankrupt, miss-managed mess of a building site. It’s no good for Al Maktoom to start sacking everyone now it’s too late. He is the Captain and he fell asleep at the wheel. Confidence will take a generation to restore and much of what isn’t 50% complete will never happen.
> 
> Will Dubai survive ?
> 
> Of course it will, to many living in Dubai and not connected to construction, no material change will take place. In fact in 5 years time Dubai will be a better place for all this mess and I for one am glad it has happened as it will put an end to all the madness and give Dubai a chance to become a functioning City with communities and purpose.
> 
> The fallout will be that businesses will not be inclined to invest heavily in the future of Dubai and Tourism will struggle to provide the 50% of GDP that was predicted. Abu Dhabi will not let it’s little Brother die for his silly mistakes but it will insist on a more respectfull relationship in the future and Dubai will have to know it’s place from now on.
> 
> When Al Maktoom made his speech the other day and in English said “i want to tell everyone to shut up about Dubai and Abu Dhabi” he did so knowing this news was due to come out and hit the fan.


Another gr8 post HT. Feels funny knowing that i have off plan investments that will never be built but i did understand the risks and can only blame myself. I have been trying to reduce debt for the last couple of years and hopefully in the near future maybe i will buy a property in the marina at a gr8 price. If only the banks were willing to lend. I do believe that towards the end of next year that there should be some reasonably priced properties. The next few months are going to be really interesting from a investing perspective in dubai and other emerging markets and the link between the UK and dubai


----------



## noir-dresses

He's the man, should be working for time magazine, or the economist


----------



## Wannaberich

^^
Totally agree.Someones gotta make the coffee.
:lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

:lol:


----------



## noir-dresses

What do you say Wanna we make a few wager's (beer's) on how this whole thing will play out ?

I say AD will buy them out, oh I meant to say bail them out, and buy every thing for next to nothing and do what they do best, make money on there investments.
In the next two weeks something else will be in the head line news, and no one will care any more.


----------



## High Times

FWIW said:


> I still look forward to that drink and a little education, education, education as they say!


Looks like you have had your education from me Sunny i now see you are quoting this



FWIW said:


> Food for thought:
> 
> Be greedy when others are fearful, and be fearful when others are greedy.
> 
> Served me and WarrenB well so far...


Really ??

When i quoted that in the midst of the UK financial meltdown a year ago you came up with 

*“Never try and catch a falling knife”*,

 Funny how things change isn’t it. However I'm glad to see you have learned from your mistakes and i am only too happy to have helped in your development.

I'm not going to be childish and list all the calls i have made right over the last 2 1/2 years on this forum or explain the proper context of our B&B bet, or try and embaress you by bring up your record on currency movements. I'm better than that.

FWIW Don't align yourself with Wannabe, you are better than that. At least i can have a decent economic conversation with you from time to time.

Wannabe is still learning how to count from Mummy and pizza segments.

Good call on Gold though. :cheers: I'm still not a big fan, i prefer the risky stuff as i like the excitement. Just stop and think why Gold is surging at the moment. Think QE, liquidity, post your gold, bubble.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

High Times said:


> Tourism will struggle to provide the 50% of GDP that was predicted.


This is worrying to me. But then again Abu Dhabi seems to have plans for mass tourism and with Dubai down the road, this wil help out. If Abu Dhabi buys or part buys Dubai, what would it do with the tourist projects there what have been started infrastructure wise.


----------



## houshang

If assets bubble and toxic loans were the cause for current world problems then do not look further than US real estate market.
Dubai did not bring the lehman brothers down for sure.


----------



## dubaiprojects

*Not pessimistic but just being realistic*

All news channels are making headlines at this moment about sharp drop in gold and crude oil prices owing to Dubai World debt crises.

I am really scared about the fall out on the real estate sector, I thought it was showing signs of improvement, but now this set back? In short, what likely will be the impact, further decline in property prices? rental go down? people will lose jobs?? what are the scenarios here?

Cheers


----------



## Wannaberich

noir-dresses said:


> What do you say Wanna we make a few wager's (beer's) on how this whole thing will play out ?
> 
> I say AD will buy them out, oh I meant to say bail them out, and buy every thing for next to nothing and do what they do best, make money on there investments.
> In the next two weeks something else will be in the head line news, and no one will care any more.


I'll drink to that :cheers:


----------



## True Blue

houshang said:


> If assets bubble and toxic loans were the cause for current world problems then do not look further than US real estate market.
> Dubai did not bring the lehman brothers down for sure.


No! But I think there has been a bit of Lehman bringing Dubai down.

Emaar bought the largest housebuilder in the US which went down the tubes with the US mortgage holocaust.

Sheikh Mohammed invested in Wall Street and is rumoured to have lost $10Billion during last years banking collapse.


----------



## AppleMac

dubaiprojects said:


> All news channels are making headlines at this moment about sharp drop in gold and crude oil prices owing to Dubai World debt crises.


I have been taken aback by the level of panic shown by some people, it is not as though companies have not gone bust before (DW has not even gone bust yet)

When Lehmann collapsed or GM and Chrysler were bankrupted we didn't see the level of panic that we have seen today - the markets really need to calm down a bit.


----------



## High Times

dubaiprojects said:


> All news channels are making headlines at this moment about sharp drop in gold and crude oil prices owing to Dubai World debt crises.
> 
> I am really scared about the fall out on the real estate sector, I thought it was showing signs of improvement, but now this set back? In short, what likely will be the impact, further decline in property prices? rental go down? people will lose jobs?? what are the scenarios here?
> 
> Cheers


Perhaps Wannabe could give us some valueable insight, a first in 2,800 odd posts.

I'm off to make a coffee.


----------



## noir-dresses

They say the market's were slow this week, and just looking for a reason to go down, and along come's Dubai, the rest is history.


----------



## AppleMac

noir-dresses said:


> They say the market's were slow this week, and just looking for a reason to go down, and along come's Dubai, the rest is history.


Didn't last long though - after yesterdays falls the European markets are back up today :lol:

In the big scheme of things Nakheels $50 Billion debt is peanuts, especially when put against the bank losses that have already occured.


----------



## FWIW

High Times said:


> Looks like you have had your education from me Sunny i now see you are quoting this
> 
> 
> Really ??
> 
> When i quoted that in the midst of the UK financial meltdown a year ago you came up with
> 
> *“Never try and catch a falling knife”*,
> 
> Funny how things change isn’t it. However I'm glad to see you have learned from your mistakes and i am only too happy to have helped in your development.
> 
> I'm not going to be childish and list all the calls i have made right over the last 2 1/2 years on this forum or explain the proper context of our B&B bet, or try and embaress you by bring up your record on currency movements. I'm better than that.
> 
> FWIW Don't align yourself with Wannabe, you are better than that. At least i can have a decent economic conversation with you from time to time.
> 
> Wannabe is still learning how to count from Mummy and pizza segments.
> 
> Good call on Gold though. :cheers: I'm still not a big fan, i prefer the risky stuff as i like the excitement. Just stop and think why Gold is surging at the moment. Think QE, liquidity, post your gold, bubble.


2 out of 3 aint bad...and maybe your memory is failing you when I said that I had changed my opinion on the state of the £ ages ago?

But you didn't cover yourself with any glory with "Gold is an over valued, luxury item" blah blah especially when I bought it when it was so obviously undervalued.

Anyway, let's not re-write history - it is you that will be buying me a drink for being wrong about B&B.:cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

United Arab Emirates continued its efforts to implement more advanced infrastructure projects, in the transportation sector, which included the construction of an extensive network of international airports and seaports and international airlines. The projects also covered railway lines and metro, as well as extensive road networks, bridges, tunnels and all other integrated infrastructure projects which were placed in the ranks of modern and advanced in the world. 

The railway systems entered for the first time in the transport infrastructure of the UAE, where work is progressing for the implementation of the first underground train system in the Emirate of Dubai at a cost of AED 15 billion. Studies to build railway lines in the Emirate of Abu Dhabi are underway with a vision of lining all emirates in a single railway network.

There are seven international airports in the United Arab Emirates, including the ones in Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Sharjah, Ras Al Khaimah, Fujairah and Al Ain. Airports Council International expects the passenger handling capacity of UAE airports, including Al Maktoum Airport of Dubai and Ajman airport, to reach more than 250 million passengers by 2020, ranking first in the Middle East and North Africa in terms of absorption capacity. 

The country will also inject more than US$ 22 billion to expansion projects and building airports across various emirates.

The number of passengers handled by the airports in the UAE had crossed 40million in 2008, while the number of aircrafts registered with the competent authorities in the country stood at about 250 aircrafts from various countries in the world. The number of airline companies which operate across the country's airports rose to 300 airlines during this period. 

The three national airlines, namely Etihad Airways, Emirates Airlines and Air Arabia achieved a qualitative leap in acquiring a steady fleet of modern large aircrafts, and increased global travel destinations. The number of passengers who use them also increased substantially and new airlines companies were established during this period including flydubai and RAK Airways. 

There are more than 26 seaports across the UAE and15 of them are major sea ports. The free zones established in many of them offer several facilities and tax exemptions to attract investment and encourage investors to establish commercial and industrial projects and services that support the national economy. UAE's largest free zone is in Jebel Ali, with more than 6 thousand companies specializing in the fields of industry, investment and trade. 

The railway systems made its entry for the first time to the transport infrastructure in the UAE after Dubai government announced the construction of a 75km long network of subways at the value of AED 15 billion. Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of UAE and Ruler of Dubai commissioned in September 2009, the pilot phase of the technical operation of Dubai Metro. The Dubai Metro project includes 47 stations, including 10 underground stations. 

*UAE enters the era of nuclear power. *

UAE launched this year its nuclear programme for peaceful purposes, after the Cabinet approved it and created the country's nuclear authority under the name 'Emirates Nuclear Energy Corporation' with a capital of AED 375 million. 

Emirates has signed memoranda of understanding with the United States, Britain and France for cooperation in the peaceful use of nuclear energy. 

Earlier on August 7, the UAE also pledged USD10mn in support of the initiative to establish the nuclear fuel reserve bank launched by the organization 'Nuclear Threat Initiative' (NTI ) in 2006. 

*UAE plans to invest billions in future energy.*

To meet its growing energy demands and to keep up with the ambitious future plans of sustainable development, UAE turned towards exploring and developing sources of new technology for energy, including solar power, hydrogen and civilian nuclear energy. 

Thus it founded the Abu Dhabi Future Energy Company 'Masdar', a public shareholding company wholly owned by Mubadala Company. The Masdar Institute of Science and Technology was eventually established.

The company, which was launched by the Abu Dhabi government, also made investments to the tune of US$ 15bn earlier in 2008 to implement the first phase of its plans to make Abu Dhabi a global hub for future energy as well as a regional hub for the export of technology. 

Masdar Clean Tech Fund was established in 2007 with capital of U.S. $ 250 million, an investment fund dedicated to renewable energy and developed sustainable technologies. The initiative could invest the funds in a number of international companies working in the fields of renewable energy.

Masdar is working to develop a broad portfolio of projects compliant with the 'clean development mechanism' and the development of sustainable infrastructure projects. 

The Masdar Company achieved major developments on the front of the solar energy technologies in its strategy for the construction, ownership and operation of a power plant with concentrated solar capacity of 100 MW in Zayed City. The project is expected to operational by the end of 2010. 

An administrative body was set up for Masdar Institute of Science and Technology, which began conducting researches in 12 different areas. 

MasdarCity: Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and Deputy Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces HH General Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan laid the of the foundation stone for the Masdar city in February 9, 2008, to create the world's first zero-waste, zero-carbon sustainable city.

The total investment is estimated at U.S. $ 22 billion and is located near Abu Dhabi International Airport with an area of 6 square kilometers. The city is expected to be completed in 2016 as part of Abu Dhabi 2030 development plan.

*Emirates Center for Culture: *

In addition to these projects that transform the UAE into a center of technology, the country has also experienced a number of initiatives and cultural projects that qualify it to be a global cultural destination, especially after the launch of the Cultural District on Saadiyat Island in Abu Dhabi.

Announcements about building strategic partnerships and celebration of cultural and scientific festivals followed to attract regional and international universities in the UAE within the framework of its commitment to openness to the world's civilizations and cultures and its endeavour to promote its cultural heritage as well as its position as the bridge between world's civilizations and cultures.

The government of the Emirate of Abu Dhabi and the Government of the French Republic signed a cultural agreement for 30 years for the construction of Louvre Abu Dhabi museum in the Cultural District on Saadiyat Island, which lies about 500 meters from the Abu Dhabi's coastline. The island has an area of 27 square kilometers and is currently being converted into an international tourist destination in the region. 

Cultural District will also include Biennale Gardens consisting of 19 pavilions devoted to arts and culture, where a group of prominent international architects are working on the designs of these museums.


----------



## rags

Site Admin, Pray, why has an innocuous post from me this afternoon been removed?


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> I'm not going to be childish and list all the calls i have made right over the last 2 1/2 years on this forum


:lol:
Are u for real?The number of long winded posts u have made reminding us of your predictions which have come true(well according to you) is a joke.
You spend hours going back over old threads/posts and quoting them just to prove yourself right and everyone else wrong.
Sad :lol::lol:


----------



## bizzybonita

dirtyharry1 said:


> Europe is totally overreacting, they should care about their own problems first before telling stories that the malls in Dubai are empty and all that shit.
> 
> Germany's debts are 1600 billion EUR and nobody cares.
> 
> We all know for 1 year now that the property market in Dubai has collapsed but in Spain i.e. there are 1 Mio units empty!!! Any statements in the news? No. Any panic? No.
> 
> I am really very realistic about Dubai but that doom and gloom scenarios coming from Europe are really too funny to take them serious.


I don't really what i can say But they are easily want to cover there mess "the brainers" Western dudes by oil's country money and how they burn there money "brainless" *on them* sound funny to me . it's all about Envy n heat they called peace ... :lol:

Btw what's really happened in The World Food Conference LOL "only for show like most of time "


----------



## Wannaberich

High Times said:


> Wannabe is still learning how to count from Mummy and pizza segments.


One thing you obviously havent learnt is how not to perv after female SSC members.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1008959
^^
Remember?!
:lol::lol::lol:
You stack em up and I'll knock em down cowboy :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## True Blue

UK ftse finished up 51 points tonight so blown over already. The FTSE is up on the week also.

It was all over the news last night and on the radio being debated by Jeromy Vine on Radio 2. Some idiot came on who said he worked for Etisalat and left Dubai in 2008, he stated that this is just the start and things will get worse for Dubai. Obviously a bitter individual who had to flee his debt.

I'm not sure Dubai wants the help of AD and hence this stand still request. I think they want time to investigate the options. AD still has an obligation to bankroll the infrastructure projects with them being the capital, otherwise what does being the capital Emirate entail:dunno: They are certainly not obliged to bankroll business ventures of Dubai, that will remain Dubai's responsibility.

Now that Sheikh Mohammed has spent some time with Gordon, expect the cost of fuel to shoot up in the emirate as subsidies are removed and duty is applied. No more cheap cigs either.


----------



## Wannaberich

rags said:


> Site Admin, Pray, why has an innocuous post from me this afternoon been removed?


Because u insulted me and then I insulted you.However my insult was more original then yours so I have more reason to be pissed off.


----------



## Mistermark

I agree with what High Times wrote, a couple of pages back. In particular, I think his final paragraph is quite telling. It's interesting how Sheikh Mo had a go at those who suggest tensions between Dubai and Abu Dhabi. It's an undiplomatic thing to say, and quite unexpected from a head of state. With hindsight, I wouldn't mind betting it came after some tense words between the head of an insolvent emirate and the leader of an oil-rich one...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Speculation is growing of an imminent bailout of Dubai by its richer neighbouring emirate, Abu Dhabi. Sources close to Dubai World are confident a deal will be reached shortly. But what pound of flesh will Abu Dhabi demand in return? This being the Gulf, usury is not permitted.

The chat in Dubai is that the famous Palm developments will certainly be going Abu Dhabi’s way, but will Sheikh Mohammed also be forced to give up his prized airline, Emirates, and with it his sponsorship of Arsenal Football Club? We’ll see. Perhaps he’d like to chuck in the QEII – which is owned by the bit of Dubair World threatening to default, Nakheel – and some of his thoroughbreds for good measure?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jeremywarner/100002335/what-price-an-abu-dhabi-bailout/


----------



## bizzybonita

UAE invests Dh.100bn into realty sector in 5 years

The UAE has invested Dh.100bn into the real estate sector over the past five years, which is more than double the total capital injected into property projects during the previous five years, revealed official figures by Ministry of Economy.

The investments in the real estate sector during the period 2004-08 accounts for more than 15 percent of the total public and private investments pumped by the UAE during that period, the figures indicate.

Investments in the property sector stood at Dh.41bn during the previous five-year period and experts said that this indicates sharp increase in capital over the past five years. This was the result of construction boom triggered by strong oil prices and the opening up of property sector to foreigners.

Investments in construction sector stood at Dh.41.1bn during the period 2004-08, bringing the total capital pumped into real estate and construction in the UAE to Dh.141bn during that period.

Investments touched an all-time-high of Dh.33.2bn in the real estate sector in 2008 and about Dh.13.8bn in construction sector. In fact, these investments are considered as the main factor for the sharp growth recorded in the non-oil economy sector of the UAE during the past five years.

Official data have revealed that the real estate sector saw an increase by 35 percent per annum, touching a peak at Dh.78.4bn in 2008, compared to Dh.28.5bn recorded in 2004.

Such high growth also helped boost expansions in other non-oil sectors of UAE, boosting GDP by 25 percent. The communication sector was the biggest recipient of investments during 2004-08 with total capital of Dh.114.1bn, followed by manufacturing sector with Dh.112.5bn and real estate by Dh.99.9bn.

According to industry sources, the pace of investment will gather pace during the next few years, as the UAE pushes ahead with major projects to expand its crude output capacity, gas, refining and petrochemicals.


----------



## rags

Wannaberich said:


> Because u insulted me and then I insulted you.However my insult was more original then yours so I have more reason to be pissed off.


I don't know what you are saying. Apart from the fact that I never use insulting language, the fact is that you are doing a great job of it yourself with many of your own posts. Need I say more?


----------



## proplaw2

*This IS a big deal for the UAE*



AppleMac said:


> Didn't last long though - after yesterdays falls the European markets are back up today :lol:
> 
> In the big scheme of things Nakheels $50 Billion debt is peanuts, especially when put against the bank losses that have already occured.


$50 billion is NOT peanuts!

I think the largest individual US bailout was AIG at approx $120 billion, or some 0.8% of US GDP.

Abu Dhabi ALREADY bailed out Dubai with $ 10 billion, or 4% of the entire UAE GDP (including those fabled oil revenues). UBS is speculating that Dubai's debt may be higher than $ 80-90 bill, but even if Abu Dhabi "just" needs to bail out the $ 59 billion DW owes, that represents 23% of UAE GDP, or approx 10% of their SWF. Of course the money in their SWF was never meant to save Dubai either, and might already have been earmarked for other purposes - covering future developments, pensions or liquidity problems AD might have of their own... So while it is quite possible that AD will end up helping Dubai out of their woes, it is certainly not obvious, and absolutely not "peanuts"!


----------



## speculator

proplaw2 said:


> $50 billion is NOT peanuts!
> 
> I think the largest individual US bailout was AIG at approx $120 billion, or some 0.8% of US GDP.
> 
> Abu Dhabi ALREADY bailed out Dubai with $ 10 billion, or 4% of the entire UAE GDP (including those fabled oil revenues). UBS is speculating that Dubai's debt may be higher than $ 80-90 bill, but even if Abu Dhabi "just" needs to bail out the $ 59 billion DW owes, that represents 23% of UAE GDP, or approx 10% of their SWF. Of course the money in their SWF was never meant to save Dubai either, and might already have been earmarked for other purposes - covering future developments, pensions or liquidity problems AD might have of their own... So while it is quite possible that AD will end up helping Dubai out of their woes, it is certainly not obvious, and absolutely not "peanuts"!


Its nothing. Really its not a lot even for Dubai as they still have sufficient assets. Some thing is being concocted behind the scenes; this is all too convenient and timely. I suspect AD are behind this. Just go to sleep. night night.


----------



## noir-dresses

I must of heard the word Dubai atleast at thousand time's today.

They say Dubai World is owned by the government, but then it is'nt the government, so no big deal, the whole thing is blown out of proportion.


----------



## FWIW

noir-dresses said:


> I must of heard the word Dubai atleast at thousand time's today.
> 
> They say Dubai World is owned by the government, but then it is'nt the government, so no big deal, the whole thing is blown out of proportion.


Let's try and work out how much Dubai Tourism would have needed to pay for all those adverts!!! I must have seen the PJ fireworks a 100 times today!

:banana:

Now joe 6 pack will know where to go on family hols, which will probably make Dubai more affordable compared to mainland Europe!

Is your glass half full or half empty? :cheers:


----------



## glover

this is really a self-inflicted wound!! they have no one else to blame but themselves. Mo and his team seem to have not only miscalculated big time, but so far, have shown incompetency in handling the fallout of their unthoughtful and nonsensical sudden decision, hiding behind a religious holiday!! if they don't do major damage control ASAP and even reverse course, the repercussions on dubai will be felt for a long time. for now, this is a major setback for the real estate sector in dubai and might very well jeopardize dubai's status as a rising regional financial hub!

it could be fixed, but it will need a great amount of courage from UAE's leadership to acknowledge this blunder and work on its resolution fast.



Imre said:


> Everything is just rubbish what the media is writing about Dubai.
> 
> Dubai is just a city and wont be ever failed, Abu Dhabi Royals have more than 1000 billion usd wealth so what is 50-100 billion for them?
> 
> Dubai has still too much money just see the road works at the Emirates Road,Al Khail Road ,all infrastucture works going on.
> 
> I think its just a manipulation , created a news about the Dubai World was a great strategy , what do you think how much did they on the stock markets yesterday? Probably now they are just laughing on the whole world
> 
> Sheikh Mansoor is a big player like Soros or Buffet


----------



## 234sale

gerald.d said:


> I wonder if anyone made a fortune shorting Nakheel's bond this week?


Mr 888 has done well this week..:lol:


----------



## 234sale

Amazed at the number of KSA plates around the Downtown District.. Even seen 30 + Kuwait plates


----------



## tehsin123

*Why Dubai Debt Matter?*

A very good analysis by Forbes, brief and to-the-point:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/27/dubai-uae-debt-default-business-oxford-analytica.html


----------



## social

Imre said:


> Everything is just rubbish what the media is writing about Dubai.
> 
> Dubai is just a city and wont be ever failed, Abu Dhabi Royals have more than 1000 billion usd wealth so what is 50-100 billion for them?
> 
> Dubai has still too much money just see the road works at the Emirates Road,Al Khail Road ,all infrastucture works going on.
> 
> I think its just a manipulation , created a news about the Dubai World was a great strategy , what do you think how much did they on the stock markets yesterday? Probably now they are just laughing on the whole world
> 
> Sheikh Mansoor is a big player like Soros or Buffet


If you really think that AD and Dubai are playing happy families or that this is a great strategy, then you are seriously deluded

As it stands, the outside world is of the opinion that:

a. AD has left Shk Mo out to dry; and

b. Shk Mo/Dubai have zero credibility.

Do yourself a favour and read the western reports rather than the "sanitised' view portrayed by Gulf News, etc


----------



## smussuw

^^ don't see how western reports have the right facts ....


----------



## Porcello

smussuw said:


> ^^ don't see how western reports have the right facts ....


real facts don't matter. Reputation is built mainly on perception.


----------



## seasurf

smussuw said:


> ^^ don't see how western reports have the right facts ....


Smussuw how are the locals reacting to this news...it would be interesting to know. Any insider info as to Dubai/ Abu Dhabi relationship and why it wasn't sorted out in-house so to speak??


----------



## social

Porcello said:


> real facts don't matter. Reputation is built mainly on perception.


Exactly!

AD is yet to come to the party and Dubai is yet to repay its debts so the worst is being assumed


----------



## smussuw

seasurf said:


> Smussuw how are the locals reacting to this news...it would be interesting to know. Any insider info as to Dubai/ Abu Dhabi relationship and why it wasn't sorted out in-house so to speak??


Most of the locals don't even know about such news, it is just like any other day. Others are blaming the Chairman of Dubai world, some say Dubai is indeed a bubble .... etc.

As I said earlier, they got $5 billion loan from Abu Dhabi the same day they announced that they want to delay Dubai World payment, what does this mean?


----------



## mackie1964

"Pick and choose how to help, no bail out" According to Sky News.

Very poor judgment by AD. I thought Sheikh MBZ had much more sense than letting this go that far. He is much more visionary than big Mo IMHO. I really don't get it :dunno:


----------



## AppleMac

> Dubai World had $59 billion of liabilities as of August, most of Dubai's total debt of $80 billion. International banks' exposure related to Dubai World could reach $12 billion in syndicated and bilateral loans, banking sources told Thomson Reuters LPC.
> 
> But the numbers pale in comparison to the $2.8 trillion in writedowns the International Monetary Fund estimates U.S. and European lenders will have made between 2007 and 2010.
> 
> "The events in Dubai in recent days are one of the hiccups if you like, one of the difficulties, which affirms that we were right to highlight the uncertainty ahead of us and that the road ahead could be a bumpy one," European Central Bank Governing Council member Athanasios Orphanides said.


Hopefully it looks like cooler heads are now taking stock


----------



## social

mackie1964 said:


> "Pick and choose how to help, no bail out" According to Sky News.
> 
> Very poor judgment by AD. I thought Sheikh MBZ had much more sense than letting this go that far. He is much more visionary than big Mo IMHO. I really don't get it :dunno:


Fairly understandable IMO as they've already tipped in $25 billion, Dubai appears to be a black hole, AD has its own issues (companies like Aldar need a lot of money today), oil is a finite resource, and relationships between the 2 arent all that flash


----------



## smussuw

^^ inventing crap again? $25 billions? bad relationship? :bash:


----------



## social

smussuw said:


> ^^ inventing crap again? $25 billions? bad relationship? :bash:


Who controls (i.e funds) the central bank that has already provided $10 bn and committed to another $10 bn?

Who controls the banks (i.e. owns) that lent another another $5 bn this week?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt that add up to $25 billion in "official" bail-out money from AD?

As for relationships, it's hardly a secret


----------



## smussuw

^^ Its hardly a secret? Then how come I don't know anything about it? Its only a gossip by outsiders like you and ones who lied and then believed their lies. As for the loans, they have payed $15 billions so far not $25 billions.


----------



## dxbguy

Very interesting game of politics being played out. 

Why did Dubai make this announcement so public? 
1)Perhaps poor judgment 
2)Perhaps to put pressure on AD to come to the table and stop stalling. 
3)Stall payments till asset prices increased, put pressure on creditors

Why did Abu Dhabi reply in such a manner so publicly? 
1) "pic and choose" as opposed to help in "several instances"... a big F you?
Or perhaps
2) Force creditors to deal with Dubai and extend terms? 

So situation is either:
1) AD and Dubai are jointly negotiating for the best deal
2) They have no clue and are stumbling from one disaster to another

Next week will be very interesting.... 
1) If Dubai is trying to put more pressure on AD or the GCC could start Taxation or Legalized gambling rumors to encourage a bail out to prevent it.
2) Seek a deal with creditors
3) Go into total default... like Argentina or Russia and prevent a recovery for all emerging market economies. Are Dubai banking on being to Big to fail? 

So how will this affect Dubai?
1) Short term, next to nothing, Dubai Inc not been paying for sometime, limited impact on local economy
2) Property prices depreciate further but so depreciated, will anyone care
3) Future projects unable to get finance.... we all know that

so in short term almost no impact.... 

Everyone has assumed this could not go this far, but interestingly all assumptions keep getting broken. so just for fun:

What about long term effects if Dubai defaults? 

Is the UAE as a country at risk?
Would there be changes at the top?
Or is this all part of a well thought out plan?

thoughts?


----------



## dubaimat

dxbguy said:


> thoughts?





Wannaberich said:


> With friends like Abu Dhabi who needs enemies.


spot on :cheers:


----------



## social

smussuw said:


> ^^ Its hardly a secret? Then how come I don't know anything about it? Its only a gossip by outsiders like you and ones who lied and then believed their lies. As for the loans, they have payed $15 billions so far not $25 billions.


The figure is actually potentially a lot more if you take into account the guarantees that AD has provided for Dubai loans and the funds that AD banks have lent

As for relationships, you cant possibly be serious


----------



## smussuw

social said:


> The figure is actually potentially a lot more if you take into account the guarantees that AD has provided for Dubai loans and the funds that AD banks have lent
> 
> As for relationships, you cant possibly be serious


I am dead serious, stop inventing bullshit !


----------



## dxbguy

edited sorry


----------



## sidxb

social said:


> The figure is actually potentially a lot more if you take into account the guarantees that AD has provided for Dubai loans and the funds that AD banks have lent
> 
> As for relationships, you cant possibly be serious


There is some inconsistency in your post. Or you are trying to imply that despite animosity ( bad relationship ) between abudhabi and dubai , abudhabi has ended up giving guarantees for dubai loans and provided 25 billion ( incorrect figure ) bailout money ?

There could be natural competition between two emirates but calling it 'bad relationship' is taking it too far. Afterall Dubai cannot bully AD like UK or US with gun pointed at head and forcing to bailout there economy :lol:


----------



## sidxb

dxbguy said:


> Very interesting game of politics being played out.
> 
> 
> thoughts?


Good post , summarizing almost all theories to an extent 

Unfortunately , the news has been blown out just like any other news related to Dubai. Havent we all read the news like 'Dubai is empty' or 'Expatriates have left Dubai' or 'Mass exodus after academic calendar' :lol:


----------



## dubaimat

sidxb said:


> There is some inconsistency in your post. Or you are trying to imply that despite animosity ( bad relationship ) between abudhabi and dubai , abudhabi has ended up giving guarantees for dubai loans and provided 25 billion ( incorrect figure ) bailout money ?
> 
> There could be natural competition between two emirates but calling it 'bad relationship' is taking it too far. Afterall Dubai cannot bully AD like UK or US with gun pointed at head and forcing to bailout there economy :lol:


Eventually we could agree on the fact that Dubai is not collapsing due to dissecting those numbers, on the other hand it might be well worth actualizing such information.
BTW personally I was always missing a link to the world's highest tennis court :nuts:



smussuw said:


> Dubai World Records:
> - 60% of the world Gold trade comes through Dubai
> - 3rd biggest ports operator in the world
> - The biggest development company in the world, market rank: Emaar
> - The fastest growing airline: Emirates
> - The biggest mideast non oil company, assest rank: 1st: Dubai World, 2nd: Dubai Holding


----------



## moscowboy

informerdxb said:


> akheel new mission statement to be changed on all advertising and signage 6-12-09
> 
> NAKHEEL
> 
> WHERE VISION INSPIRES BANKCRUPTCY
> 
> WE PUT DUBAI IN THE CRAP NOW WE PUT CRAP ON DUBAI
> 
> THE WORLD -A VISION TO STEAL
> 
> THINK BLUE THINK SCAM
> 
> THE PALM IDIOTOLOGY
> 
> WATERFRONT -TWICE THE SIZE OF ANY EMPTY DESERT NEVER TO INHABITED IN THE WORLD
> 
> As our Chairman, H.E. Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem SHOULD put it:
> 
> "Nakheel is more than a company - it is a FRAUD . A FRAUD that defies ordinary thinking... when conventional wisdom says no we say yes and do not make it happen."


Moderators: This guy should be banned.

Where do these filthy brains come from?


----------



## dubaimat

moscowboy said:


> Moderators: This guy should be banned.
> 
> Where do these filthy brains come from?


why are you not calling for KGB, the guy should end his live in the Lubyanka basements hno:


----------



## moscowboy

The biggest debtor in the world is USA. Nobody calls them bankrupt. (They can always repay their debts by printing more dollars)

Most of the debt of Dubai comes from bad investments in USA and Europe.

Linking Dirham to a sinking dollar is another problem.

I hope the Sheik will sort things out soon.


----------



## Mistermark

moscowboy said:


> The biggest debtor in the world is USA. Nobody calls them bankrupt. (They can always repay their debts by printing more dollars)
> 
> Most of the debt of Dubai comes from bad investments in USA and Europe.
> 
> Linking Dirham to a sinking dollar is another problem.
> 
> I hope the Sheik will sort things out soon.


The US is the biggest debtor in the world in absolute terms. As a percentage of GDP, Dubai is a long way ahead of it, and may well be the most indebted state in the world.

Of course, there are two mitigating/complcating facts in Dubai's case: first, it's a state, rather than a nation, which is why the world is now looking to Abu Dhabi in particular and second, its currency is tied to that of another nation (the US). So on both scores, the solution is not wholly in Dubai's hands, and nor is the fallout limited to it.

My reading of the situation, for what it's worth, is that AD has decided against a straight bailout and over the coming months we will see pence in the pound settlements put to the creditors, combined with sell-offs of many of DW's assets. It may well be that many of those assets will be bought by AD, but the point is that they'll be buying them at a discount, rather than book value, and that the creditors will be sharing the pain.

Meanwhile AD will maintain that it is supportive of Dubai (the state, as opposed to Dubai Inc.) so the actual emirate's liabilities will be met, provided it tows the line, even if those of a major business controlled by the ruler won't.

A couple of years down the line, UAE will join a Gulf combined currency which will be free-floating, at which point the economic decisions will be centralised and Dubai's freedom to act will be much curtailed.


----------



## moscowboy

234sale said:


> http://www.debtbombshell.com/
> 
> The UK has £850,000,000, of admitted debt...
> Thats nearly £14,000 per person in the UK...
> 
> Households will be taxed £1,209
> --- How would you like to pay 8,000 AED in Tax to cover just the interest on the debt
> 
> 
> Unemployment is close to 10% in the UK..
> 
> 
> Lets bash Dubai, keeps the eyes off Crash Gordo


wait a minute. UK has a population of 62 Million.
If you divide £850 Million by 62 Million, you get £13 per head.
Not £14000.

You are only off by 10000 percent. not bad.


----------



## dxbguy

*Playing with fire*

Its really interesting to see them let it go this far for just 4Bill in the immediate term and 80billion overall. 

80 billion is not a small amount, but lets put it in perspective, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet could pay it from their personal wealth and still have change to Finnish all of the projects in progress (totally unsubstantiated comment)

Its hard to believe they couldn't pay this off in One go let alone pay of the monies due. Also if they default (which they are not, they are just requesting an extension) all monies are due in full so they are playing with fire. 

Dubai has always operated under what was believed to be a truly benevolent leadership, the question is not whether they can pay it is why don't they want to pay? Who is giving them this advise? Why are they risking all they have achieved? 

I wonder if the govt were being advised right up untill the last minute that DW would pay and then at the last minute they came clean leaving DXB leadership with little or no time to respond and consequently ask for more time to restructure. Perhaps this was the only way Dubai Govt could change the guard. 

HM has been impressive with the 'show must go on attitude' in appearing at the races and then placing himself directly on the board of DW. This is a man who has archived a great deal, i suspect if any one can, he might be able to turn it round, that said, im still amazed they choose not to pay. . . 

So only time will show whether they they are simply re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic or changing course in time...


----------



## sidxb

mackie1964 said:


> "Pick and choose how to help, no bail out" According to Sky News.
> 
> Very poor judgment by AD. I thought Sheikh MBZ had much more sense than letting this go that far. He is much more visionary than big Mo IMHO. I really don't get it :dunno:


This 'pick and choose' news has started repeating in multiple news. However I did not find the source of news , two reports I saw , both mentioned 'Unidentified official in abudhabi' . Whether official was from ADIA or some minister or some official from ministry ??? I dont think its even an official press release or anything . 

This news is worth considering only if it comes from some authentic source or official press release


----------



## dxbguy

moscowboy said:


> wait a minute. UK has a population of 62 Million.
> If you divide £850 Million by 62 Million, you get £13 per head.
> Not £14000.
> 
> You are only off by 10000 percent. not bad.


u need to add 80 billion to that seeing as dubai borrowed from british banks that are now underwritten by the British government 

Kind of Ironic that one possibility is the british tax payer has to pickup the bill when so many brits choose to live here to avoid tax...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

ABU DHABI (Reuters) - Abu Dhabi, capital of the United Arab Emirates and one of the world's top oil exporters, *will "pick and choose" how to assist its debt-laden neighbor Dubai*, a senior Abu Dhabi official said on Saturday.

"*We will look at Dubai's commitments and approach them on a case-by-case basis. It does not mean that Abu Dhabi will underwrite all of their debts*," the official told Reuters by telephone.

The government official declined to be identified because he is not authorized to speak to the media.

"Some of Dubai's entities are commercial, semi-government ones. Abu Dhabi will pick and choose when and where to assist," he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-CreditCrisis/idUSTRE5AR0EH20091128


----------



## dxbguy

Dubai_Steve said:


> ABU DHABI (Reuters)
> 
> The government official declined to be identified because he is not authorized to speak to the media.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-CreditCrisis/idUSTRE5AR0EH20091128


So potentially anyone can ring them up and say anything and they will report it.... maybe we could try ringing them up from a Dubai number, decline to be identified and then say

A Senior official said... Palm J will be declaring Independence... and every Tuesday will be topless Tuesday.... and they report it all over the world? great.... 

unless its an official statement its not worth considering, since, i suspect all the leadership are of enjoying Eid and probably not even aware of the half of whats going on... unless they have internet and log onto SSC


----------



## noir-dresses

This thread is starting to give me stress, let's see how things pan out in the end, there's really not much any one of us can do about it. I'm sure every thing will be fine.


----------



## dubaimarina2008

If you really want to compare..

http://buttonwood.economist.com/content/gdc


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## Morrismarina

Is it not a great act of weakness that the news was initially broken by Sheik Mo after markets had closed and just before the Eid holidays ? Break the news then run and hide for cover !! IMO the prospect of Dubai being taken seriously as the Middle East's financial centre is long gone now if he thinks it's OK to act like this.


----------



## FWIW

Haven't you guys heard the phrase 'pretend to fail'?

Stop and think for a moment - we are all being played. Fear, uncertainty and Doubt is what is being spread around here. The powers that be will be laughing as they can't lose.

Have a look at the AIG bailout and put all this into context:

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/03/17/whither_the_aig_bailout_funds










UAE just wants it's share of the bailout funds. If Sheikh Mo has to go to London to get Gorgon Clown to give him some over Eid then he will just go!


----------



## dubaimat

*Dubai Debt Woes Raise Fear of Wider Problem*



Morrismarina said:


> Is it not a great act of weakness that the news was initially broken by Sheik Mo after markets had closed and just before the Eid holidays ? Break the news then run and hide for cover !! IMO the prospect of Dubai being taken seriously as the Middle East's financial centre is long gone now if he thinks it's OK to act like this.


November 28, 2009
Dubai Debt Woes Raise Fear of Wider Problem
By LANDON THOMAS Jr.

Of the many economies that gorged on debt in the boom years, Dubai stood out. In the space of a few years the emirate’s investment arm, Dubai World, racked up $59 billion in debt, borrowing to build lavish developments like a giant island shaped like a palm tree to entice celebrities like Brad Pitt, and to invest in glittery properties like the MGM Grand Casino in Las Vegas.

Now that the boom has gone bust, both in Dubai and in the United States, Dubai is stuck with a glut of real estate that no one wants to buy or rent. Creditors and markets had always assumed that when push came to shove, its oil-rich neighbor Abu Dhabi would bail out Dubai. But that assumption was called into question this week, and the resulting fear that Dubai might not be able to pay its bills sent a wave of uncertainty rippling through markets just as investors thought the worst of the global financial instability was over.

The anxiety reached Wall Street on Friday, sending the Dow Jones industrial average down more than 150 points, as investors worried about hidden debt bombs in other countries and institutions — heavily indebted nations like Greece and even Britain, high-flying emerging markets and even European and American banks that had lent Dubai money.

In a worst-case contagion, Bank of America analysts wrote Friday, “One cannot rule out — as a tail-risk — a case where this would escalate into a major sovereign default problem, which would then resonate across global emerging markets in the same way that Argentina did in the early 2000s or Russia in the late 1990s.”

And not just emerging markets. “Dubai shows us that what we are now facing is a solvency issue, not a liquidity issue,” said Jonathan Tepper, a partner at Variant Perception, a research house in London that has been outspoken on the debt problems facing European economies.

On Wednesday, Dubai requested that Dubai World be allowed to skip six months of interest payments on its debt. Before then, Dubai World, the corporate face of the emirate, had commissioned the city state’s flashiest buildings, managed ports around the world and reached far overseas to invest in properties like Barneys in New York.

Now, just as Bear Stearns was a harbinger of a string of failures of overly leveraged investment banks, the concern is that Dubai could be the canary in the coal mine for heavily indebted countries. The debts of everyone, including Japan and the United States, not to mention emerging markets, have risen greatly as the countries have fought the ravages of the global recession.

“You can print as much money as you want, but at the end of the day you have to pay the interest on your debt,” Mr. Tepper said.

Dubai is one of the few member states of the United Arab Emirates that has little oil wealth of its own. It acts as the trading, tourist and financial hub of the emirates. But it was assumed that the U.A.E.’s richest oil state, Abu Dhabi, would always bail out its free-spending neighbor.

Dubai’s announcement on Wednesday reversed that presumption — even as investors fretted that Dubai risked a sovereign default that would ripple to developing nations.

And while Abu Dhabi may well want to make its more exuberant neighbor and its bankers suffer a bit for their profligate ways before it rides to the rescue, that gives little comfort to investors already wary of the region’s growing debt.

“This came as a big shock,” said Fahd Iqbal, an analyst at EFG-Hermes, an investment bank focused on the Middle East. Although Mr. Iqbal said he held to the view that Dubai in the end would avoid default, he acknowledged that the measure had severely rattled confidence in Dubai. “One of the main issues now is of credibility and the potential impact on future fund-raising, which could have knock-on effects on building and infrastructure plans for Dubai and the United Arab Emirates,” he said.

By the numbers, a tremor in Dubai should not necessarily shake the world banking community. According to data from the Bank for International Settlements, foreign banks have $130 billion of exposure to the United Arab Emirates, with Britain having the largest exposure, $51 billion. Banks in the United States have debts of $13 billion.

That is a negligible 0.4 percent of foreign banks’ total cross-border exposure, said Stephen Jen, an analyst at the hedge fund Blue Gold capital management.

In fact, Dubai World’s largest creditors are domestic banks in Dubai and Abu Dhabi.

Still, one concern is that some British banks with large credit exposure to the United Arab Emirates are already troubled. Royal Bank of Scotland, majority-controlled by the British government, was one of the largest lenders to Dubai World, having secured $2.3 billion worth of loans to it since early 2007, according to a report by J.P. Morgan. Standard Chartered and Barclays were also large lenders to the region, with more than $10 billion between them, analysts said. HSBC has $17 billion exposure to the United Arab Emirates.

But while a Dubai default may not provoke a banking crisis, it could well spur a broader crisis of investor confidence in overly leveraged economies.

World markets did not take long to reflect this insecurity.

The Dow Jones industrial average fell 154.48 points, to 10,309.92 Friday, as markets in Europe and Asia closed slightly higher after opening sharply down for the third consecutive day. Crude oil prices fell to a six-week low; gold fell as investors sought havens.

The cost of insuring the debt of economies like Greece and Lithuania spiked 16 percent and 6 percent, respectively, this week. The cost of insuring Dubai’s debt shot up by 67 percent and the British pound weakened against the dollar for the week.

Greece and Britain have historically high budget deficits that exceed 12 percent of gross domestic product, with Spain not far behind and Ireland struggling with the consequences of a devastating real estate collapse.

While no one is expecting an outright default as long as global interest rates remain low — largely due to aggressive government bond purchases by central banks — concerns have been building for months that once these easing measures end, interest rates will spike and investors will become less willing to trust the word of heavily indebted governments.

For now, most of the pain from Dubai is being felt by the holders of the Islamic bonds of Nakheel, the developer owned by Dubai World that is known for the palm-themed islands it built.

On Dec. 14, $3.52 billion in Nakheel bonds come due. One of the largest Islamic group of bonds issued, the deal was snapped up by Western and regional investors. In a reflection of how sure investors were that Dubai would meet these payments, the bonds were trading at a 10 percent premium to face value earlier this week. They are now trading at around half of face value.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/28/business/global/28dubai.html?hp


----------



## Dareus

According to Reuters today, an unofficial source from Abu Dhabi government has confirmed, that they will bail out Dubai but on a case by case basis.

This presumably means that projects they deem potentially successful will be saved - I assume the two remaining palms - now largely constructed - will be in this category - as Palm Jumeirah was immensely successful for the developer when Nakheel were a bit more flush than they are at present.

Dubai World also has many solid mature assets that can be sold to reduce debt -but they need to sort this asap - as the whole exercise has been badly handled when we have the Ruler telling financial critics to "shut up" just two weeks ago - and the Crown Prince stating that the Dubai economy was "humming" just over a week ago - its been a PR disaster for Dubai and its existing investors.

As a Dubai investor I do believe the combined strength of the many sectors of the Dubai economy will ultimately prevail - the DIFC for example still has a 400+ applicant waiting list - and tourism, aviation, logistics, and manufacturing are still performing well - particularly as these sectors are internationally depressed - as confirmed in the following Dubai economy review - http://www.2daydubai.com/pages/dubai-economy.php - and the skilled workers, professionals,managers and owners in these various growing sectors still have to be housed somewhere in Dubai.

If the information issued last week by the EMAAR Chairman - that Dubai issued 400,000 new residence visas over the past 12 months - is correct this is a green shoot because Dubai's property sector requires an increasing population.

Interesting enough the buoyancy of the Dubai property sector has also gone hand in hand with the price of oil! See graph illustrating this at: http://www.2daydubai.com/pages/dubai...rty-sector.php

As for any Iranian investors wondering if they would be better with their capital back home - the Iranian political system and its economy are now utterly controlled by the Guards,subject to the current unelected ruthless Shah - Shah Khamenei - in a classic fascist form of government - and the value of any assets inside Iran are depreciating by the day as it's currency continues to decline in the international money market - and private capital can no longer compete with a military regime that is subject to little or no legal constraints.

Hopefully for the oppressed people of Iran - we will one day soon see a democratically elected green government - and that will be the time to consider returning capital in Dubai back to Iran - as the whole Middle East and especially Dubai will see massive economic benefits from Iran opening up its economy, and its incomparable tourist assets, to the rest of the world again.

Most likely though we will see a full Dubai recovery - well before we see a democratic government, and free market economy, in Iran.


----------



## smussuw

dxbguy said:


> while i dont disagree with you about AD and DXB i dont think who is married to who matters much....


While I agree that it doesn't matter much who is married to whom I can safely say that Sheikh Mohammad Bin Rashid should be having a better relationship with some of Al Nahyan brothers than the relationship between the brothers themselves ....


----------



## dubaimarina2008

dxbguy said:


> a) nothing, it will continue to go up
> b) stay static
> c) small drop
> d) total collapse, marina 1beds for 300k within 3 months
> 
> answers guys and girls?


Dubai Marina = a
Other Dubai = b


----------



## mackie1964

E) No one knows

It all depends on AD reaction/response as the one and only lifeline available to Dubai (help from other GCC brothers will not do). It will also depend on the reaction to the rest of the stuff yet to come out.

It’s not as simplistic as some think on here but unless it is contained within, this could end up really bad.

For those of us who love the place, let’s hope the main man in UAE see sense and bring an end to this. I know for a fact that he is able to do so within days but not sure if he is willing :cheers:

History tells us that blood relation mean nothing :dunno:


----------



## smussuw

We are basically in the dark without enough information to judge in anyway, we will be knowing in the following weeks or months ....


----------



## noir-dresses

Smussuw, are the local's even conscious of what is going on, and the one's that are, do they have any fear's, or resentment toward's the government they admire, and look up to for getting them selves in this position ?

What is the view of ordinary Dubai resident's, do they in any way blame Abu Dhabi for not helping in a more sincere, and brotherly fashion, or is it all about money, ego's, gread, I would like to hear your Emirati view's on this topic, thank's ?




smussuw said:


> We are basically in the dark without enough information to judge in anyway, we will be knowing in the following weeks or months ....


----------



## smussuw

^^ As I said in another thread, most of the locals have no idea about this issue ....


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Why should AD be expected to bail Dubai out. If Brighton council secretly borrowed huge amounts of money from the USA to build a brand new 20 mile long pier with housing and entertainment to attract international tourists and failed in the middle of its construction due to the recession, would London or the UK government be expected to pay for it to be finished? :dunno:


----------



## noir-dresses

That's the way we think Steve, what interest's me is how the local's see all of this ?


----------



## iownyou

the central bank is for the whole of uae and not abu dhabi even tho it might be located in the capital such as the federal reserve in washington dc is located in the capital of america but it doesent belong to the capital it belongs to all of america.
if the central bank bails out dubai then this is a good thing because it will be repaid in time with low interest plus i think they rather share the money with sd then auctioning off assets to other countries is best to keep things in the family i guess.

but as i said before and i guess imre you have answer my question 2 days later is nothing but rubish shaik mo has enough money to pay for this bond out of his own pocket he is one of the richest man in the world this is and was a plan to have the name dubai in front of every news station to make some good media. my father is in colombia now and he called me and told me whats going on in dubai lol i couldent belive that everyone was talking about dubai good media good media


----------



## noir-dresses

Yeah, but alot of my friend's called me asking what's with Dubai, is it really bankrupt


----------



## noir-dresses

smussuw said:


> ^^ As I said in another thread, most of the locals have no idea about this issue ....


Tell's us about the one's that do know, that's what interest's me ?


----------



## dxbguy

Dubai_Steve said:


> Why should AD be expected to bail Dubai out. If Brighton council secretly borrowed huge amounts of money from the USA to build a brand new 20 mile long pier with housing and entertainment to attract international tourists and failed in the middle of its construction due to the recession, would London or the UK government be expected to pay for it to be finished? :dunno:


many instances of uk govt bailing out UK companies, Industries and Councils... all those who invested in icelandicbanks for high interest for instance. 

the answer is yes, AD must bail out Dubai, Dubai has massive assets abroad that will reflate quickly and even those at home, Dubai just needs to buy a little time.


----------



## dxbguy

mackie1964 said:


> E) No one knows
> 
> It all depends on AD reaction/response as the one and only lifeline available to Dubai (help from other GCC brothers will not do). It will also depend on the reaction to the rest of the stuff yet to come out.
> 
> It’s not as simplistic as some think on here but unless it is contained within, this could end up really bad.


of course your talking about the disillusionment of the union. We are a long way of from that, and that would actually take abu dhabi to say they dont want a union with Dubai, so its never going to happen. 

I wouldnt be surprised if the 'unnamed senior government official' wasnt speaking on behalf of anyone except his ego. The real official reaction may be somewhat different. Besides we still have to hear what the creditors say, they may be ok with a 6month standstill if they get paid a larger amount off earlier. Lets see....


----------



## dubaimat

*Rumbles in the Desert*

The Atlantic - Megan McArdle

While you were all stuffing yourself with turkey and gorging on sweet potato souffle, Dubai World, the Dubai government's investment arm, asked investors for some extra time to make its debt payments. In normal times, this would be a big problem for Dubai. But these are not normal times, and the world is suffering from the mother of all debt hangovers. A big sovereign default--for this is essentially what this is--raises questions about who might be next.

Paul Krugman sums up the possibilities:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/27/rashomon-in-the-desert/

First, there's the view that this is the beginning of many sovereign defaults, and that we're now seeing the end of the ability of governments to use deficit spending to fight the slump. That's the view being suggested, if I understand correctly, by the Roubini people and in a softer version by Gillian Tett.

Alternatively, you can see this as basically just another commercial real estate bust. Either you view Dubai World as nothing special, despite sovereign ownership, as Willem Buiter does; or you think of the emirate as a whole as, in effect, a highly leveraged CRE investor facing the same problems as many others in the same situation.

Finally, you can see Dubai as sui generis. And really, there has been nothing else quite like it.

At the moment, I'm leaning to a combination of two and three. For what it's worth (not much), US bond prices are up right now, suggesting that the Dubai thing hasn't raised expectations of default. ---



I agree with Professor Krugman--it's hard to see this presaging a sovereign debt default by, say, the United States. On the other hand, emerging markets are subjects to runs on their currencies, and debt, and I'm not so sanguine that we won't see effects there. We might get a split in sovereign debt prices, with developing world debt being shunned by investors who have suddenly remembered what a risk premium is, while US debt and that of other developed countries becomes more valuable. A positive movement in US bond prices agrees with that theory.

Which is not to say that this won't hurt us. The global economy is not really robust enough to stand up to repeated blows. Presumably that's why stock indices are off on worries about what follows.

http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/11/rumbles_in_the_desert.php


----------



## Imre

*Dubai credit bomb*

November 28, 5:44 AMSt. Louis Investing Examiner *Jim Mosquera

Dubai is one of the seven emirates and perhaps most well known and most populous of the United Arab Emirates. The news that Dubai's investment arm asked for a 6-month deferral on $60 billion in debt, rocked stock markets for the Friday, November 27th trading day. Dubai has seen overwhelming growth with conspicuous projects like the Gulf's palmed-shaped island and the world’s tallest skyscraper (Burj Dubai). It also hoped to become a tourist haven in the Middle East. In the process of reaching for the stars, literally with Burj Dubai, the state backed investment networks, nicknamed Dubai Inc., amassed $80 billion in red ink. While European banks appear to have the most exposure to Dubai's debt, there are broader implications.

http://www.examiner.com/x-18442-St-Louis-Investing-Examiner~y2009m11d28-Dubai-credit-bomb#


----------



## dxbguy

dxbguy said:


> a) nothing, it will continue to go up
> b) stay static
> c) small drop
> d) total collapse, marina 1beds for 300k within 3 months
> 
> answers guys and girls?


i think after December and before March the answer will be between C and D. 

I would be a buyer of studios at 300k and 1 beds a 500k. 
currently studios are 500k and 1 beds 700k 

I think this is where the real bottom is.


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## dubaimat

smussuw said:


> ^^ As I said in another thread, most of the locals have no idea about this issue ....





noir-dresses said:


> Tell's us about the one's that do know, that's what interest's me ?


it most likely depends on whether the ones with or without sunglasses are being asked...:cheers:


----------



## mackie1964

dxbguy said:


> of course your talking about the disillusionment of the union. We are a long way of from that, and that would actually take abu dhabi to say they dont want a union with Dubai, so its never going to happen.
> 
> I wouldnt be surprised if the 'unnamed senior government official' wasnt speaking on behalf of anyone except his ego. The real official reaction may be somewhat different. Besides we still have to hear what the creditors say, they may be ok with a 6month standstill if they get paid a larger amount off earlier. Lets see....


No, Not really and please don't tell me what I am thinking. Just express your opinion without any assumptions on my behalf.

Let us see what the next few days bring. Maybe we will get some good news / surprise on December the 2nd. I will drink to that :cheers:


----------



## Imre

*Dubai World might still pay sukuk by deadline*

Rupert Wright and Frank Kane

Last Updated: November 28. 2009 11:38PM UAE / November 28. 2009 7:38PM GMT Dubai World could still meet the December 14 deadline on the US$4 billion (Dh14.69bn) payment of a sukuk from Nakheel under one option being considered by advisers to the conglomerate.

Repayment on schedule is one of four alternatives being considered by Dubai World, which announced on Wednesday it would seek a freeze on billions of dollars in debt repayments to bondholders and creditors.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091128/BUSINESS/711289904/1133

:lol::lol::lol::cheers:


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## Imre

Money arrived from Abu Dhabi


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## noir-dresses

Olive: Dubai's world sinks into a sea of red ink
Collapse of emirate's sovereign wealth fund comes as no surprise after its bad investments
Comment on this story »
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By David Olive Business Columnist
Published On Sun Nov 29 2009

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Beach of Dubai
TAKAYOSHI NAKAJIMA/SHUTTERSTOCK

There's an old saying that people with too much money on their hands soon find themselves with the opposite problem, and Dubai has just handed the world a prime example.

Global financial markets were rocked late last week by the startling news that the Persian Gulf emirate's sovereign wealth fund (SWF), Dubai World, is effectively insolvent and has arbitrarily declared a six-month moratorium on debt payments it's unable to make.

Global currencies from Colombia to Singapore took a tumble, and stock markets worldwide had a panic attack, fretting that some of the world's other 30 or so SWFs might soon also be in dire straits. Many SWFs have extensive debts outstanding with the world's largest banks.

For all the worldwide efforts to bail out the global banking system, it has only returned to stability, not good health. Having endured the spectacular collapse of the U.S. housing market, the system is now girding for a string of defaults in commercial real estate. Additional failures among SWFs, unforeseen until last week, would not cause a second global credit freeze. But they would further delay a complete recovery of the banks and a sputtering world economy.

What's the origin of this latest shock to world finance?

As global trade and commodity prices – particularly oil – spiralled upward earlier this decade, a Niagara of money poured into the coffers of export powerhouses like China, Korea and Singapore. And into the state treasuries of commodity producers including Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Russia and Dubai.

Those states created so-called sovereign wealth funds to hold all that money. By mid-decade, the SWFs' rapidly growing assets were expected to reach as much as $12 trillion (U.S.) by 2015, just shy of the size of the U.S. economy. With oil heading for a $147.50 per barrel peak, that estimate didn't seem far-fetched.

The opportunity to tap these new and massive pools of cash was seized upon by capital-hungry real estate developers, private equity shops and hedge funds worldwide.

And in some quarters, the SWFs were seen as a threat to national security. That worry came to a head, ironically enough, in the ultimately failed attempt in 2006 by Dubai Ports World to acquire some of America's biggest East Coast seaports. DP World is the principal arm of the now crippled Dubai World. The deal was thwarted by objections in the U.S. Senate.

"Should we be outsourcing our own security?" U.S. Democratic Senator Charles Schumer said of the spectre of state-controlled Arab investors in charge of inspecting cargo coming into New York and New Jersey ports.

Stephen Harper got into the act. While sanguine about the loss of Alcan, Dofasco, Inco and other iconic firms to foreign private-sector buyers, Harper vowed to block takeovers by government-controlled SWFs on national security grounds.

That paranoia was immediately reminiscent of the much-feared Japanese accumulation of Western assets in the 1980s. Japan was then the world's top creditor nation and seemed poised to take over America's industrial crown jewels. Japanese purchases of Columbia Pictures and the Rockefeller Center were seen as a mere appetizer.

You know the rest.

Japan's overheated economy was peaking as it began its short-lived U.S. foray, which was soon followed by the implosion of the Japanese property and stock-market bubbles. For good measure, the Rockefeller Center and Hollywood purchases were dumb. They were made at the top of the market – a beginner investor's folly – and lost a tonne of money for their Japanese buyers. The Japanese economy was to endure 10 years of stagnation in the 1990s – Japan's so-called "lost decade" – and the Land of the Rising Sun has not fully recovered to this day.

Despite that object lesson, no thought was given to a similar fate for the more recent SWF bubble. After peaking at about $3 trillion in 2007, total SWF assets had plummeted in value by May of this year to a mere $1.8 trillion.

The obvious culprits are the global recession and resulting 11 per cent drop in global trade that sharply reduced Western cash inflows to goods exporter China and oil producer Dubai.

Less obvious is that the wet-behind-the-ears SWFs made lousy investments, as the Japanese had done in their moment of exuberance.

Abu Dhabi's Investment Authority snapped up $7.5 billion worth of stock in Citigroup Inc. at prices in the mid-$30s. The stock in that U.S.-government controlled basket case now trades in the $4 range.

The Beijing-controlled China Investment Corp. was taken to the cleaners when the principals of Blackstone Group LP, America's biggest private equity firm, decided to cash in through an initial stock offering. The Chinese paid $3 billion for a slab of Blackstone equity, or about $38 a share. That stock now changes hands at about $14 a share. Dubai World's piece de resistance of poor investing judgment was the billions of dollars in loans it made to property giant Nakheel, developer of the much-photographed, palm-tree-shaped resort a few hundred metres off the Dubai coast. That landmark is a sort of Sydney Opera House run amok that always struck me as an overblown symbol of national coming-of-age rather than a viable financial proposition.

Not everyone has been crying in their beer since the Thursday shocker, despite the extensive collateral damage Dubai World has wreaked on global capital markets. The managers of the much older sovereign wealth funds of Alberta, Alaska and Norway, mocked for their conservative investment practices when the newbie SWFs were spending with reckless abandon, have been vindicated.

And in contrast to the prolonged Japanese decline, China, Korea, Kuwait and almost all of the other SWF-owning states will be on the mend relatively soon as the global economy recovers, enabling them to backstop losses on their SWFs.

Just as the fear of Japan was misplaced, so too the SWFs of communist and Arab nations. The concern should have focused on the SWF's ineptitude.

The crack-up of Dubai's once stupendously endowed SWF is also a powerful reminder that it's wrong to associate investing smarts with those in possession of large sums of money. The world's biggest banks not long ago were awash in more money they could intelligently handle. And tens of millions of workers are unemployed today as a result of the ill-advised bets they made. The everyday analogy is the lottery winner uncertain of what to do with his windfall who finds himself broke within a year. But at least his folly is not the cause of widespread misery for others.


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## dubaimat

*UAE Central Bank decides to guarantee deposits*



noir-dresses said:


> Do you think alot of people are going to take the cash out of there bank account's in the UAE untill this all blow's over, and the big question mark fade's away with Dubai's debt payment's ?


(old news from October 13th 2008, people in the UAE are very well aware off)

*The Central Bank of the UAE said it is going to guarantee all deposits and savings as it becomes the latest bank to react to the global credit crisis by offering to protect banks deposits.*

Middle Eastern bourses, which have taken a hammering in recent months, rallied on the news, with Dubai’s DFM rising by 10.53 per cent to close at 3343, up from a low of 3025 on Sunday. The DFM is down by 43.6 per cent for the year to date. It started the day down by 49 per cent. On June 5th it was at 5824.

Abu Dhabi was up by 6.92 per cent at 3350, up from yesterday’s 3133.

A press release issued by the Central Bank of the UAE has said that Sultan Bin Nasser Al Suwaidi is now in Washington DC to attend the IMF/WB Annual Meetings. It said that this year a large amount of time will be dedicated to discuss the liquidity crisis and the financial markets turmoil especially in the advanced industrial countries, the discussion will include analysis of reasons which led to these crises and solutions or what is called policy response, i.e. changes in monetary policies and those relating to capital markets.

About the situation in the UAE, the governor mentioned that national banks and foreign banks enjoy a strong financial position, as the ownership of deposits are distributed as follows:

• Nationals at 75 per cent;

• Arabs at 8 per cent;

• Other nationalities 17 per cent and the ownership of nationals and Arab of deposits at national banks is higher. Also banks financing from the European Commercial Paper issues (ECP) and Medium-Term Notes (MTN) to the total bank assets is 9.9 per cent only.

As for the inter-bank deposits percentage, it is 12.7 per cent to the total assets and most of these are owned by banks in the UAE, according to the statement.

For the assets side, the UAECB says the majority of assets of national and foreign banks operating in the UAE are in the UAE and their parties are known and sound, contrary to what is there in other economies where most parties in these countries are unknown, it added.

And for capital of banks and their reserves, the Central Bank said they represent 11.02 per cent of bank assets, which is considered high according to Basel II standards.

Thus, national banks and branches of foreign banks operating in the UAE are constructed on safe and sound foundations of 77.4 per cent of secure financing recourses, it said.

On the other hand and to respond to some inquiries about the purchase of some foreign countries of shares in their banks, the governor explained that local governments have substantial percentages in many banks, therefore the matter is solved in the UAE from a long time ago.

http://www.cpifinancial.net/v2/print.aspx?pg=news&aid=1198


----------



## noir-dresses

I know the UAE central bank made that statement today, I was just wondering if there would be panic, long line's of people waiting to with draw fund's because they just don't believe any thing any more.


----------



## baba toto

NAB said:


> Hello guys, firstly let's start gathering enough investors in these units - don't know whether we will have to log separate cases for each of the lawns I to V - through this forum.
> 
> If a good number of us are motivated enough (as in ready to put down a bit of cash & effort for registering & following up on a case against DEC), that would be a starting point...We all would have a bit of heads up on the process as some other threads have already started filing cases.
> 
> I have a unit in Lawns V, and am frustrated enough (read motivated enough) to want to put a case against the developer. Whoever on this group has similar sentiments, please convey your readiness to invest some money and effort - the more members we have the less will the investment.
> 
> Request all investors in these units to respond....


I'm in. Lets hear from other investors and communicate via private message / e-mail address and co-ordinate .....


----------



## social

peacesells said:


> Would you like to share some of these with us? Make sure to mention their 'correct' alternatives as well as how YOU know for sure they are, in fact, correct as opposed to being mere alternatives that look good on paper but could probably 'backfire' even more in practice.
> 
> Bottom line is, you're speculating just as I am. Except in my case, I see it as a small part of an overall strategy to prevent the default hat seems to be working now that the Central Bank finally woke up whereas you seem to think of it as a one-off screw up.


There is a massive amount of empirical evidence that allows us to determine the likely reaction of financial markets to "unexpected" announcements such as the one made by Dubai.

There is a similarly large body of evidence that deals with reactions to less than full disclosure

Combine the 2, as Dubai did, and you have a perfect storm

In any event, whilst I can see the sense in what Dubai is trying to achieve by the re-structure of Dubai World, the banks/investors don't give a [email protected]#k - they simply want to know when they are going to be repaid (and in that sense, this is a one-off event)

By failing to address that very basic issue and then attempting to go to ground using a holiday as an excuse, Dubai gave certain people/media outlets/financial institutions/etc the excuse to bash Dubai that they had been waiting and planning for (have a look at The Times coverage for evidence of stories that had been prepared for just such and occasion).


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## social

noir-dresses said:


> I know the UAE central bank made that statement today, I was just wondering if there would be panic, long line's of people waiting to with draw fund's because they just don't believe any thing any more.


I live in a complex with people from a wide range of professions (bankers to horse grooms) and can tell you that a big topic of conversation around the pool today was switching money out of dirhams and/or repatriating as much cash as possible to "safer" havens

Neither makes a lot of sense to me but people are talking about it and that's probably been paramount in AD's actions today


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## sidxb

social said:


> I live in a complex with people from a wide range of professions (bankers to horse grooms) and can tell you that a big topic of conversation around the pool today was switching money out of dirhams and/or repatriating as much cash as possible to "safer" havens
> 
> Neither makes a lot of sense to me but people are talking about it and that's probably been paramount in AD's actions today


"safer" heavens as in US ? or macau ? :lol:


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## carpetking

"safer" heavens is just properties in Germany like Hamburg !


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## nisha

noir-dresses said:


> I know the UAE central bank made that statement today, I was just wondering if there would be panic, long line's of people waiting to with draw fund's because they just don't believe any thing any more.


I think so - I had many people calling me and asking me if their money was safe and that they were planning to withdraw first thing Monday. Many withdrew whatever the maximum the ATM would allow them. So yes, panic was beginning to set in. That is why the UAECB's statement was very important.


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## iownyou

moscowboy said:


> if you are a citizen of america, you will be taxed on your world wide income., no matter where you live.
> if you cheat on income tax you can go to jail for upto 20 years.
> plus you cannot renounce american citizenship. (Lee Harvey Oswald went American embassy and renounced citizenship 3 times. yet he was able to come back to USA without a passport because he was an American citizen. Citizenship of all other countries can be renounced by just a verbal declaration!)
> man you are screwd.


1- you have to pay tax only if you bring the money to america 
2- you have to pay tax only if they know about it
3- if you have your assets under somonelses name and your the silent owner
then they cant tax you because legaly is not your money:cheers:
there is alot of tricks out there and i dont intend to bring the money back to america i want to move out of this shit place


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## iownyou

used2begid said:


> Based on all your previous posts your opinion does not count for much anyway, so I doubt to many people will pay much notice to your outrageous comments.
> 
> The view of Dubai from the outside world and now almost unanimous is that it has been ruined by greed and is full of people looking to screw anyone for a quick buck.Nobody will invest in Dubai now so good luck to anyone that is relying on their investment to secure their future, the lottery may now be a better business opportunity.


i used to live in dubai so i know it well
i dont post on this forum to impress people but i post to speak my mind so i dont care what people think of me :lol:


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## iownyou

noir-dresses said:


> So you spit on American soil, you have serious issue's with that bitterness inside, can't stand ungreatfull boat hog immigrant's like you. How fast you forget the shit holes you came from, and the shit life that brought you to where ever you are today.
> 
> Dubai does'nt need people like you either.


i come from italy you call it shit?:lol:
i came here because i had to not because i wanted to i think any country in the world is better then america i dont have anything against amerian people i dont like the curupt system i dont like the people on top


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## noir-dresses

Your soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo full of shit, I have a feeling your starting to believe your self:bash:. Every thing from buying 45 floors in Dubai, (but hey I was living in International City), and now your Italian. Ya rite buddy, what ever you say. If you were Italian I would of cought on to your broken english accent a long time ago when you post, cause Im in Italy almost every week due to my job. Even your avatar has San Fran, Dubai on it, and a real Italian would'nt of missed that one. Why don't you tell us where your really from, and stop being embarrased of it, come clean for once.

Then your comment's on American's are so corrupt, hello "Gino", did you forget where the mafia came from ????, every thing you say, and I mean every thing, just does'nt add up.


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## shagdash

The total adds upto 15 bn. Where will the other 65 bn come from?


----------



## agod

On Friday between 10 and 2,on the LBC radio in London 97.3, James O'Brien show. he slated Dubai as some chav spot, if Jordan bought there it must be crap, so I wrote him a letter, see if he says anythingDear James


Firstly you cannot comment on a land or society if you have never visited it, its just you listening to what you want to hear, and closing your ears to any other comments. And to laugh at people who made bad investments here, is pretty abhorrent, I have made good investments here were all my developments are being built, and the Dubai debt, is small change for this Government, it will be sorted by next week, and you can all laugh on the other side of your faces, when you have to pay for your debt, when you will be taxed, and your children will be taxed, and your children’s, children, will be taxed, until they squeak, and you are all bankrupt in a land, called UK, that no right thinking person would go to live in.

You missed the point entirely when talking to some of your phone in callers, most of them lost money here, or were only tourists, who came here for a round of golf, so they where not to well informed. So why did you want to laugh at the people who got swindled in the UK, or Spain, or Florida too, shame on you, where has your heart gone, for a guy with a young family, and Catholic upbringing, I sincerely hope it doesn’t happen to you one day.


I know your job is to stimulate debate, but I thought you were an honest journalist, not one of your rag top types, that talked drivel. I was fuming listening to you, and tried o get on air, as my view in Dubai Marina, on the 27th floor is pretty superb, the beach, the Marina, Emirates Golf course, the Burj Al Arab, what they have done hear in 5 years is amazing. So you think I am some rich sod, no not true, once a Lorry Driver, and shop steward myself, I made good by working hard and getting ahead.


I am more than qualified to talk about Dubai, and England, as I was born in the laying hospital, Waterloo Road, and except for my extensive travelling, I have lived there most of my life, I know where I want to end up now I have hit 60, and its Dubai, a hundred times over.

All your callers missed the main point of living here and it’s the quality of life, The things that make you smile are here, when you say Good Morning to someone, they actually answer you back, being served by a waitress, I went away to the toilet, when I returned she had put a cover over my drink to keep the dirt out, The restaurants and the service in them, is just superb, even the cheap junk food stalls in the Malls are of good quality, and the variety of food that is in them, Iranian, Lebanese, Mongolian, Uzbekistan, and all the other kind of Stans, fish & chips, curry house’s to die for, and an endless list of anything you want, and if you cant get it, you can buy it at the numerous supermarkets, all the pork products, many from the UK, Waitrose are here, Carrefour from France are here, Geant, from Belgium, are here, and a great store called “Lulus” for the Asian market, and even a Co-op.


Some examples that have happened to me in the last 8 months, parking up one day at a pay and display bay, we didn’t know what to do, and was trying to work out the cost, as it was in Arabic, it was a bit difficult, when a Indian man, just stopped and put his 5 dirham’s in for us, how nice was that, I was sitting on a bench uptown, puffing on a Cigar, when a Arab woman sat next to me, she opened up her lunch box and offered me a sandwich, , it’s these small things from a population of mixed races, that touch your heart, and there no road rage here, there are plenty of lunatic drivers, but hand gestures and bibbing your hooter, can get you in to trouble, you just sit there fuming when some nutter cuts you up. The ability to go out and not be scared of a mugging at anytime of the day or night, no drunks, very little crime, leave your purse or handbag on the chair and it will still be there on your return, even watching the the children play in the fountain, I had a guilty conscience, because in the UK its frowned upon by the PC brigade, not here, no such thing just human beings, being human beings, what a refreshing place this, is to be able to enjoy life again.

There are labour laws here, in the summer all workers must take a 3 hour break, any developer caught working them in the midday sun, is heavily fined, all sites have health and safety requirements, there are signs and safe working notices everywhere, there is no Apartheid here, all races can mix together, its probably because of the cost of the meals in some of the restaurants that you don’t see the Filipino or Asian workers frequenting, that keeps them out, not that they are banned, just cant afford it, and you say about slave labour, well next time you buy something made in China or the sweat shops of India, will you think twice, no, of course you wont, and yes there are plenty of Money Exchanges where they can send there money home, The cleaners here get 30 dirham’s an hour a ten hour day is 300, about £50, and no tax to pay, makes that about £75, and there is opportunity here, many of them start there own business’s and go on to great success.

I just heard that Kirkby Council, which is got to be one of the worst places in the UK, has turned down again, an application for building a new stadium for Everton football Club, that just about sums up UK plc. And now we have the Metro, built in 4 years, tell Boris that! not 15 years in planning, before it starts, we are now getting a tram system as well, brand new buses everywhere, clean taxis, and roads that have not been dug up a million times, What they do here and don’t mock it, is they actually deliver on there promises, A fare from the airport to my home is 6 dirham’s on the new metro, that’s about a pound, the same fare in England from Heathrow to my place is £70 and is the same distance.

On your theory of the locals losing there culture and identity, not true, everyday the call to prayer is broadcast, even in the Malls, where they have prayer rooms for the Muslims, during Ramadan, it is forbidden to smoke or eat during daylight hours, in the street, and because the people fasting where hungry, and all rushing home to get there dinners, so as to avoid accidents, the local police, where actually out there handing out food boxes to the drivers as goodwill gesture to stop them driving so fast………………….and we have plenty of culture, not my cup of tea, old pots, but its here, also sport, plenty of rugby, Cricket, Motor Racing, Golf, Tennis.

And what about charity, these Sheikhs out here, are always giving millions of there own money to the west, when there is a problem, whether it is 9/11, or hurricanes in Florida, they are the first with there hand’s in their pockets.

So here’s the choice, a run down gaff in Herne Hill, where they get the hump to even wipe the table for you, or us getting attacked by 4 black girls (yes, I can say black girl here, I can say Indian, or Pakistani, or advertise for exactly what I want to employ) who where trying to mug a young woman, or the drug dealer that sits in his Range Rover every night, plying his trade, and the non existence coppers that do nothing to stop it, or the International cuisine right on my doorstep, with view’s, sun, sea, and the most friendly and honest, and genuine people, I have ever come across.

So Dubai it is then……………………..


Alan


----------



## iownyou

noir-dresses said:


> Your soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo full of shit, I have a feeling your starting to believe your self:bash:. Every thing from buying 45 floors in Dubai, (but hey I was living in International City), and now your Italian. Ya rite buddy, what ever you say. If you were Italian I would of cought on to your broken english accent a long time ago when you post, cause Im in Italy almost every week due to my job. Even your avatar has San Fran, Dubai on it, and a real Italian would'nt of missed that one. Why don't you tell us where your really from, and stop being embarrased of it, come clean for once.
> 
> Then your comment's on American's are so corrupt, hello "Gino", did you forget where the mafia came from ????, every thing you say, and I mean every thing, just does'nt add up.


i feel bad for you to put so much effort of your life in me and i feel bad for my self doing the same for you :lol: i dont know why your so interested in me do you want me to date you?

se vuoi ti faccio vedere il mio salame o la mia salsiccia e poi vedrai se sono italiano o no imbecille non so perche ci sono persone come te che esistono in questo mondo va bene non importa io so chi sono e tu sai chi sei ma sei propio vuota o vuoto non so se sei un uomo o una donna perche non hai nienta da fare ma solo sapere chi sono io se sono della mafia o no non sono cazzi tuoi e non telo direi neanche

no offense to anyone but when somone pics on me they need to be put in their place sofor who out there knows how to read italian then ciao a tutti


----------



## moscowboy

noir-dresses said:


> Your soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo full of shit, I have a feeling your starting to believe your self:bash:. Every thing from buying 45 floors in Dubai, (but hey I was living in International City), and now your Italian. Ya rite buddy, what ever you say. If you were Italian I would of cought on to your broken english accent a long time ago when you post, cause Im in Italy almost every week due to my job. Even your avatar has San Fran, Dubai on it, and a real Italian would'nt of missed that one. Why don't you tell us where your really from, and stop being embarrased of it, come clean for once.
> 
> Then your comment's on American's are so corrupt, hello "Gino", did you forget where the mafia came from ????, every thing you say, and I mean every thing, just does'nt add up.


Oh my God.. Noir dresses on a rampage.. gee give the poor fellow a break.. he may be telling the truth.. I find no reason to disbelieve him.
Most his posts are very thoughtful.. com'on Noir go easy.. can't we all get along? Italy is the land of Sofia Loren, remember?


----------



## moscowboy

agod said:


> On Friday between 10 and 2,on the LBC radio in London 97.3, James O'Brien show. he slated Dubai as some chav spot, if Jordan bought there it must be crap, so I wrote him a letter, see if he says anythingDear James
> 
> So here’s the choice, a run down gaff in Herne Hill, where they get the hump to even wipe the table for you, or us getting attacked by 4 black girls (yes, I can say black girl here, I can say Indian, or Pakistani, or advertise for exactly what I want to employ) who where trying to mug a young woman, or the drug dealer that sits in his Range Rover every night, plying his trade, and the non existence coppers that do nothing to stop it, or the International cuisine right on my doorstep, with view’s, sun, sea, and the most friendly and honest, and genuine people, I have ever come across.
> 
> So Dubai it is then……………………..
> 
> 
> Alan


Very good post.. May be I should move to Dubai.. but I am not sure about the cost of living there.. apartments and restaurants are costly..


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## Hanna

*Dubai Debt crisis and the Media Blackout for Sunday London Times in UAE*

Original source WallStreetJournal

DUBAI -- The Sunday London Times newspaper was removed by authorities from shelves in the United Arab Emirates on Sunday amid intensive reporting of Dubai's debt problems, an executive at the paper said.

The National Media Council ordered the paper blocked by distributors without providing a reason, an executive at the paper in Dubai told Zawya Dow Jones.The Sunday Times edition available in the U.A.E. on Nov. 29 featured a double-page spread graphic illustrating Dubai's ruler Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum sinking in a sea of debt. The Times wasn't given a reason for the block, or a timeframe when it will be lifted, the executive said. A government official in Abu Dhabi, the capital of the U.A.E., said that the picture of Sheik Mohammed, which accompanied a story entitled: The sinking of Dubai's dream, was "offensive."Under the U.A.E.'s media code, publications are prohibited from criticizing the sheikdom's rulers. Local media and government officials have criticized international press coverage of Dubai's debt crisis. Markets around the world fell last week after the government requested a debt standstill for one of its biggest conglomerates.Earlier this month Dubai's Sheik Mohammed told reporters gathered at an investment conference in the city to "shut up" and stop criticizing the emirate and its crucial relationship with Abu Dhabi.Dubai is struggling to deal with it debts estimated to exceed $80 billion.The Sunday Times is part of News International, a unit of News Corp., owner of Dow Jones & Co. The Times and The Sunday Times are published in the U.A.E. through a local partner SAB Media.

Write to Andrew Critchlow at [email protected]


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## austdec

Nice post Alan - couldn't have said it better myself! :cheers:


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## noir-dresses

The next two week's leading up to Dec 14th will really show how thing's pan out regarding the debt issue. This will be a real test on the UAE's federal level, and who know's maybe there just might be a knight in shinning armour who come's in with his white horse.

I think the sooner all of this clear's up, and we all know they had to face up to it cause it was just a matter of time, the better for investor's, and realestate.


----------



## Philippa C

tehsin123 said:


> Dubai is bankrupt reputation-wise, not money-wise. They can sell just Emirates Airlines and get rid of whole debt forever, but what is it going to do its reputation?
> .


People have very short memories. If they see an opportunity to make money here or are given the right incentives they'll come flocking again.

Look at how many international brands have overcome setbacks in the past - Perrier had a huge problem when their bottled water was found to be contaminated but they rode it out. Cadburys had Salmonella in their chocolate. It just takes a bit of clever marketing to reinstill confidence and there's no better brand than "Dubai"! 

Why aren't the UK press more interested in Blair having lied and led the country to a war which the attorney general had advised was illegal. That's cost the country more lives and money than Dubai's debt restructuring will.


----------



## malec

Imre said:


> *Is Dubai Bankrupt??*
> 
> Just check the last few days photos here and you will get the answer
> 
> www.DubaiUpdate.com


Well, it's clear from those pictures that Nakheel are in deep s**t and that they've wasted billions and billions on stuff that will never have a return. I fear what will happen to all the palm jumeirah villas, etc, if they can't afford the maintenance.


----------



## peacesells

moscowboy said:


> come on peace... you can't judge a book by its cover.. there is a lot to what he says than appears on the surface.. I looked at the video.. made a lot of sense..
> 
> most teen agers have no time to watch any serious stuff.. they are busy playing video war games or watching Friday the 13-th -Part 198.
> Usually thinkers are middle aged geisers or pensioners confined to a chair..


http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-02-25

Do you take the 2012 myth seriously as well? 

In other news, DFM stocks down to the max. Someone is going to make a killing this week.


----------



## peacesells

Philippa C said:


> Yes, well said Alan. Too many people are ready to criticise and overlook Dubai's achievements. Abu Dhabi may have had all the money but Dubai had the inspiration and courage to build something out of nothing. AD has always followed in Dubai's footsteps. We first visited Dubai in the early 90's - there was nothing between the Defense Roundabout (Burj Dubai interchange) and Jebel Ali. I recall when the boards went up to announce that MOE was to be built - it was called "Souk Al Nakheel" and just a small display in a sea of sand. if it were up to those who are so quick to belittle Dubai now nothing would ever be undertaken or achieved.
> 
> You raised an important point about different cultures co-existing here. My husband and I are from different countries and are of different cultures & religions. We have lived in several countries and visited countless others. Dubai is the only city where we feel comfortable both as a couple and as individuals. You would not believe the racism we've encountered in more "developed" countries. Quite a lot of mixed couples like Dubai for this reason as it heavily influences one's quality of life.
> 
> We should start a "We love Dubai" website


I really don't understand why everyone is harping about achievement this and amazing growth that. If you had so much oil in your backyard and an absolute monarchy that gives you the freedom to do whatever you like with the revenue, doing what Sheikh Mo did isn't at all spectacular, especially considering how rich him and his family got in the process and the mountain of debt that their SWFs are in now.


----------



## tehsin123

Philippa C said:


> People have very short memories. If they see an opportunity to make money here or are given the right incentives they'll come flocking again.
> 
> Look at how many international brands have overcome setbacks in the past - Perrier had a huge problem when their bottled water was found to be contaminated but they rode it out. Cadburys had Salmonella in their chocolate. It just takes a bit of clever marketing to reinstill confidence and there's no better brand than "Dubai"!
> 
> Why aren't the UK press more interested in Blair having lied and led the country to a war which the attorney general had advised was illegal. That's cost the country more lives and money than Dubai's debt restructuring will.


I fully agree. All those you quoted were mistakes or accidents in those brands. I will also add big incident of Tylinol in 1984. But the key in all those was how their PR handled the events. It was with full disclosure and transperancy, without hiding anything and without leaving any doubts. This is the difference with Dubai brand, there is no disclosure, transperency or media awareness. Look at past few days newspapers, they are all singing with joy about Dubai success of raising $5b and restructuring. Do you believe all of this?


----------



## larven

austdec said:


> Nice post Alan - couldn't have said it better myself! :cheers:


Yes great post Alan. What a wonderful ‘Daily Mailesque’ style of writing you have, full of hyperbole and hysteria. Yes of course we are all bankrupt here in the UK, every street corner has a drug dealer in Range Rover and you can’t step out any time day or night for fear of being mugged. In short we are all dooooomed!

Yet there you are, presumably white working class made good. Through sheer toil and hard work you have made good and been able to lift yourself out of the hellhole that is the UK. You are now free to snarl and moan from foreign shores about how the country of your birth is going to the dogs. In short a Daily Mail wet dream.

In fact you should ask the Daily Mail if you can write a column for them in your retirement. It could be called 'Our self hating Brit in Dubai'.

I read the UAE forums occasionally because I know Dubai and the UAE gets a bad rep in Europe, so I try to get a balanced view. Then I see or read people like you and I immediately know what part of the problem is.


----------



## moscowboy

peacesells said:


> http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-02-25
> 
> Do you take the 2012 myth seriously as well?
> 
> In other news, DFM stocks down to the max. Someone is going to make a killing this week.


In his comment, IOU was refering to the realities of American life and the events of 9/11 etc. References to Jesus and Christianity in this video should be ignored. 
I think the author is mixing religion and all these other things together to avoid being sued by various interest groups and put in jail by authorities.

I heard 2012 is a boring movie. Some of my friends who went to see it slept during the movie. I have no plans to see it.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Property prices in Dubai are likely to see further decline amid concerns over the availability of finance, Reuters has reported, citing analysts. 'The news plays on investor psyche and house prices may slide a further 20%-30% earlier than our existing view of second half of 2011,' Saud Masud, UBS' head of research and senior real estate analyst said. Similarly, Nicolas Maclean, managing director of CB Richard Ellis said uncertainty over Nakheel's liabilities will impact the developer's property pricing, but will only have a knock-on short-term effect for property by unrelated developers.

http://www.ameinfo.com/217489.html


----------



## moscowboy

larven said:


> Yes great post Alan. What a wonderful ‘Daily Mailesque’ style of writing you have, full of hyperbole and hysteria. Yes of course we are all bankrupt here in the UK, every street corner has a drug dealer in Range Rover and you can’t step out any time day or night for fear of being mugged. In short we are all dooooomed!
> 
> Yet there you are, presumably white working class made good. Through sheer toil and hard work you have made good and been able to lift yourself out of the hellhole that is the UK. You are now free to snarl and moan from foreign shores about how the country of your birth is going to the dogs. In short a Daily Mail wet dream.
> 
> In fact you should ask the Daily Mail if you can write a column for them in your retirement. It could be called 'Our self hating Brit in Dubai'.
> 
> I read the UAE forums occasionally because I know Dubai and the UAE gets a bad rep in Europe, so I try to get a balanced view. Then I see or read people like you and I immediately know what part of the problem is.


I thought it was a good piece of writing. He definitely has a good style in writing. 
Many of the problems he described exist in UK, if the internet is correct. Taxes are high. Crime is high. Drug use, teenage pregnancy , football hooligaanism, etc. are rampant. England is no longer a world power, militarily or financially or culturally. All these things a re true. 
Just because he was born in England, he does not have to blindly praise the country or its current malaise. 
He spoke his mind and did well. After reading his post, I have dreamed of one day visiting Dubai. But, I do not know if I could afford to live there without a good job, because of high rent and restaurant costs. 
The author is lucky to have established a life in Dubai. He can enjoy a good life in his youth. 
He was not trashing UK. But, he was answering, tit for tat, the UK media that trashes Dubai all the time without knowing much about Dubai.


----------



## moscowboy

Dubaiiscool:) said:


>


Wow what a beautiful photo. Do you know if this is a real photo or a photoshop creation?


----------



## Philippa C

peacesells said:


> I really don't understand why everyone is harping about achievement this and amazing growth that. If you had so much oil in your backyard and an absolute monarchy that gives you the freedom to do whatever you like with the revenue, doing what Sheikh Mo did isn't at all spectacular, especially considering how rich him and his family got in the process and the mountain of debt that their SWFs are in now.


As I wrote in a previous post a few days ago, look at what has happened in oil and resource rich countires in Africa with dictatorships; Nigeria being a good example.A small corrupt elite has siphoned off the country's wealth and done nothing to develop the country or provide a decent standard of living for the people. Compare that with Dubai which never had much oil and depended on trade and business acumen to develop something out of nothing to build a modern city. No harm if the Maktoum family has become rich in the process too.


----------



## Philippa C

tehsin123 said:


> I fully agree. All those you quoted were mistakes or accidents in those brands. I will also add big incident of Tylinol in 1984. But the key in all those was how their PR handled the events. It was with full disclosure and transperancy, without hiding anything and without leaving any doubts. This is the difference with Dubai brand, there is no disclosure, transperency or media awareness. Look at past few days newspapers, they are all singing with joy about Dubai success of raising $5b and restructuring. Do you believe all of this?


Cadburys hid the problems with Salmonella for as long as they could as did Perrier. Dubai has one of the best PR machines around - just give them a chance to swing into action. At this stage I'd say Dubai and the Palm are the most talked about topics in the world!! 

As for transperancy and truth in developed countries, look at the web of lies and deceit in the UK and USA that led to the invasion of Iraq!


----------



## moscowboy

malec said:


> Well, it's clear from those pictures that Nakheel are in deep s**t and that they've wasted billions and billions on stuff that will never have a return. I fear what will happen to all the palm jumeirah villas, etc, if they can't afford the maintenance.


very good point. In a desert everything has to be imported. The water has to be desalinated at great cost. the whole city has to be airconditioned. all the greenery has to be watered and fed at great expense. all these expenses are met from oil export profits. what will happen when oil export come to a stop ? Most of the oil based and construction based employment will end. Former employees will leave. Everything that was built up for them will crumble. Islands will go back to see. The infrastructure and skyscrapers will be eaten up by desert. Doom.


----------



## sidxb

DXBQuantum said:


> ^^ like you can trust what business 24/7, emirates business and gulf news says.
> 
> I rather believe what Bloomberg and Reuters say.


I think reuters was the first one to break news of 'unidentified senior official' from abudhabi about buying dubai assets on case by case basis. After few twists and turns ( or chinese whisper ) ... after few hours news turned to something like
We will Pick and Choose Dubai assets : Abudhabi
:lol:

Another good read as always is independent , it would help to make better future financial decisions hno:

*Robert Fisk: India may hold whip hand in this power game*

Some quotes or wonderful "analysis" or "news" from article :



> There are, however, two basic truths about Dubai which, predictably, have not found their way into market speculation or newspaper analysis. The first is that Dubai may soon find itself a satellite not of its Abu Dhabi capital but of India.





> Sheikh Mohamed likes tourism and foreigners and racehorses and even the Russian oligarchs whose henchmen apparently fought a gun battle in the world's tallest building a few months ago.



I believe next time henchmen are fighting gun battles on burj dubai , Imre can give us few snapshots . I always wondered how such a duel would look like on burj  :banana:


----------



## jagmp

shagdash said:


> The total adds upto 15 bn. Where will the other 65 bn come from?


Not all the companies under Dubai World is loss making.Atleast i know of Dubai Port is very much solvent.It has enough cash flow to meet its commitment of $18billion.


----------



## Philippa C

moscowboy said:


> very good point. In a desert everything has to be imported. The water has to be desalinated at great cost. the whole city has to be airconditioned. all the greenery has to be watered and fed at great expense. QUOTE]
> I used to think how crazy it was to live in a city like Dubai where the temperature has to lowered by 25 C during the summer to make life bearable. However, it struck me last time we were in Paris in December that the same thing was happening but in reverse - the temperature has to be raised by 25 C and everywhere has to be heated! Surely the same applies in Moscow and Canada. The UAE has plans for nuclear power just as France uses nucler fuel to supply its energy needs.


----------



## gerald.d

moscowboy said:


> very good point. In a desert everything has to be imported. The water has to be desalinated at great cost.


Would you happen to know how much it costs, and how it compares with providing water elsewhere in the world?


----------



## NAB

*which guy would do a runner to Pakistan?*

which guy? Dheeraj Wadhawan is an Indian, and quite a highly reputed one in India - so are you talking about East & Coast? Not sure who's in that group...


----------



## jagmp

Dubai has $350 to $400 billion of assets.It can easily meet its obligation.May be it doesn't want a firesell and lose out.Thats why it is asking for time which allows it to restructure the house.But strategy has backfired.The market over reacted.


----------



## peacesells

docc said:


> Thats quite a bit of exaggeration isn't it?


Drugs, maybe. Drinking? No, just as much. Smoking? Students in UAE probably smoke more than anywhere in the West x 2 due to cheap cigarettes and shisha plus lack of restrictions.


----------



## docc

^^ I was referring to the drugs bit. Drinking and smoking i know is quite bad here, but i think you should have been a little more specific since drugs is the worst of them all (IMO).

And drugs --- maybe? More like hardly. I think you'll agree with me there. Be a little careful in what you say since you're lack of clarity can create strong misconceptions.


----------



## moscowboy

Wannaberich said:


> Its not about which country is better than the other.That’s childish. Both the UK and Dubai have many good and bad points about them. The problem here is that the UK is much much larger,and has a far bigger population than Dubai.It has a far bigger voice worldwide.
> People respect the UK(errr,except in the eurovision song contestwhen no-one votes for them.I wonder why).
> When the UK talks the world listens.
> 
> It’s treatment of the much smaller Dubai is bullying, pure and simple.It is to the extreme and obscene. It’s ferocious, vile, and for much of the time based on wrong information and no research.The British can be extremely self-rightous,arrogant,snobbish,and it shows in
> their pathetic non-stop condemnation of Dubai.
> Why exactly they have chosen to pick on Dubai like this and no other country who knows. It can’t just be about the flaunting of wealth which goes on in the UK just as much. Whether it is also racist base on the fact Dubai is an Arab state who knows.
> 
> On the other hand Dubai does not have the same voice as the UK so to a point is defenceless.
> Would the UK try this shame shit with say the US? No f..way cos they would be trampled on and ripped to shreds !



Very good post wannabe.. you are very observant...
The hatred is racist.. and political..and religious.. and financial.. and envy.. and because as you said, it is easy to bully a defenseless nation..


----------



## moscowboy

peacesells said:


> As a graduate of a top 5 school in Dubai, I assure you students here do drugs, drink and smoke at as much as anywhere else.


I agree.. they do drugs.. for example aspirin.. drink a lot -- mostly coca cola.. and smoke .. mostly fish...


----------



## larven

moscowboy said:


> I thought it was a good piece of writing. He definitely has a good style in writing.


It was a biased view and you seem to have fallen for it hook, line and sinker. You now dream of visiting Dubai whilst having your negative notions of what the UK is all about reinforced or justified in some way by Alans post. Have you even visited the UK yourself or have you formed a view based on what you have read in the media?

Yes the UK media may like to indulge in a spot of Dubai bashing but if you think thats bad why don't you see what they write about the UK itself, the British government or even Gordon Brown! You will get no more self-flagellating people on earth than the British and Alan is a perfect example of that.


----------



## 234sale

Wannaberich said:


> That's absolutely no excuse for their treatment of Dubai.Pathetic.


Comrades
Please don't go to Dubai, it’s an awful place. 
It rains about 5 days a year and is too hot for 6 months a year.
They have no social system, no support for pregnant mothers to get a free council house.
If you are sick or old you won’t get any handouts.
If you have children, you will have to pay for their education.
If you buy a poperty in Dubai. The government won’t drop interest rates and print money to sustain a bubble.
Citizens please stay so you and your childrens children, can pay for the above.

Comrade Gordon


----------



## dubaimat

Wannaberich said:


> *Dubai World issue has been blown out of all proportions *
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1302009_11b97f0445cb41c2ba479f6425516028.aspx
> :applause:


...blown out of all proportions surely rings a bell, there are still such websites around where you find discriptions for projects like "Moon Land" 



> based in Dubailand, Moon Land will be a city within a city, containing a virtual moon setting right in the middle of the desert. The entire project will feature a moon-like surface, with a complete fact centre about the moon and the universe. Its main attraction will be the ‘Moonride’, which will enable tourists a trip into the outer reaches of the atmosphere, and enjoying the thrill of looking at the Earth from distances afar.


:nuts:

http://www.burjzayed.ae/developer.php?page=1


----------



## FWIW

234sale said:


> Comrades
> Please don't go to Dubai, it’s an awful place.
> It rains about 5 days a year and is too hot for 6 months a year.
> They have no social system, no support for pregnant mothers to get a free council house.
> If you are sick or old you won’t get any handouts.
> If you have children, you will have to pay for their education.
> If you buy a poperty in Dubai. The government won’t drop interest rates and print money to sustain a bubble.
> Citizens please stay so you and your childrens children, can pay for the above.
> 
> Comrade Gordon


Long live the nanny state!hno:

:lol:


----------



## larven

Follow up to the most savage critique of Dubai I have read by one of those left leaning 'liberal intellectuals'.

*Dubai Has Always Been Bankrupt -- Morally and Environmentally*
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/dubai-has-always-been-ban_b_372795.html


----------



## TMZ

never trust a ****, indian, britt, hispanic , american, canadian in dubai, 


who does that leave us to trust....... NO ONE! Allah Akbar and happy eid, just say inshaallah and the building magically appears.


----------



## Philippa C

peacesells said:


> I actually think that you don't need to compare the UAE to other countries to see that the current leadership are, at best, mediocre (given the circumstances). However, here's why I chose Norway as opposed to Saudi or Iraq...
> 
> - Similar population size
> - Economy dominated by oil and natural resources
> - Harsh natural environment
> - Peaceful, not being ravaged by wars, crazy dictators or anything else
> 
> .


There's just the tiny but rather significant difference that the UAE has only been in existence for the last 38 years but Norway has a much longer history. What's happened in the Middle East in the last few years is a kind of "catch up" in terms of laws, regulations etc. As Pres Obama said at his inauguration, his elecetion was even more historic given that his father would not have been served in shops in Washington just a few decades before. Social change takes time.


----------



## Philippa C

larven said:


> Follow up to the most savage critique of Dubai I have read by one of those left leaning 'liberal intellectuals'.
> 
> *Dubai Has Always Been Bankrupt -- Morally and Environmentally*
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/dubai-has-always-been-ban_b_372795.html



That's the same chap who did the hatchet job on Dubai in the Independent a few months ago.


----------



## paul66

*World Biggest Debtor Nations*

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30308959/

The top 25 consists of mainly European countries including the UK. Dubai/UAE is not even close to being in the top 25 debtor nations.


----------



## larven

The original report was pages and pages long, written back in April I think.

The latest is a much shorter update based on recent events.


----------



## dubaiprojects

*3 bed so low?*

Check this site:
http://www.bhomes.com/property/sear...es=&country=UAE&isAdvance=true&unitAmenities=

The price quoted is negotiable that means further 10-20% down. 



Cheers


----------



## agod

larven said:


> Fair enough Alan.
> 
> I live in Yorkshire, am 34 years old and have lived approximately half my life abroad in places like Jordan, Indonesia and Hong Kong. I understand where a lot of your criticism of the UK comes from as I happen to share some of them in varying degrees. However you presented them as such that it seems as if the whole of the UK is like that - which simply isn’t true. The idea that the ‘UK is going to the dogs’ is a media construct from the right leaning rags, the Daily Mail amongst them. But then I suspect you know that already…
> 
> You are quite right that much of what the Daily Mail prints is crap but what you wrote is classic hysterical Daily Mail technique I thought, designed to elicit an angry response coupled with a sense of injustice from the reader. Your post seemed to focus on the worst elements of a situation, present them as commonplace and then outline the far superior alternative i.e. your life in Dubai. The grass is greener so to speak.
> 
> Why do yourself a disservice and declare yourself ‘uneducated’ and therefore unable to argue with ‘liberal Guardian reading intellectuals’? The fact that you even know what this stereotype is demonstrates that you have some reasonable level of understanding and are merely playing dumb here. By comparison most of my working class mates probably couldn’t place Dubai on a map let alone know what a ‘liberal Guardian reading intellectual’ is. Not that I am one I might add. You have also expressed your (quite strong) views about the UK on a public forum and as such they are open to be challenged and debated. Therefore you should be prepared to defend them and not shy away behind excuses like you have ‘no education’.
> 
> Your broad brush stroke statements on the UK are what I took issue, not the fact that you have done well for yourself which I salute. Envy has absolutely nothing to do with it …although it is rather telling that you should interpret it as such.


AH Yorkshire, Gods' Country, Larven had you done a few years in Peckham, South London, I could have gone along with you, (I would have said emphersise, but this my lack of education, cant spell it) you live in one of the most Idylic places on Earth, and your grass is extremely greener, had I lived in Bromley a couple of miles from where I am now, I also would have had a different view. The envy comment was from my past experience of me making good, and by the actions of a neighbour from hell, who moved in next door, and was the last straw for us, on the decision to leave the UK.

The letter was intended for the moron on LBC radio, called James O'Brien, who had not even set foot in these land's, not for readers here, who the majority beleive in Dubai.

Lets shake hands and agree that we both have a view.

Regards Alan


----------



## larven

agod said:


> Lets shake hands and agree that we both have a view.


Agreed.


----------



## sidxb

Wannaberich said:


> Jesus this guy's full report goes on for ever.Who can be bothered to read pages and pages of a one sided opinion.


In all this media rampage , one thing is for certain. If the news site has .uk in it or the newspaper seems to be UK based ... its total time waste. As i posted in few links earlier , there is little authentic substance in these news and too much of rubbish. If some newspaper can write about shootout on top of burj dubai between russian oligarchs without any repercussions than why to even waste a moment on such 'free journalism'.

I thought yellow journalism / gutter journalism was about twisting the facts and presenting them , I am not sure if any name is given to create 'facts' out of blue and presenting them :nuts:


----------



## AppleMac

larven said:


> Follow up to the most savage critique of Dubai I have read by one of those left leaning 'liberal intellectuals'.
> 
> *Dubai Has Always Been Bankrupt -- Morally and Environmentally*
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/dubai-has-always-been-ban_b_372795.html


Ah the notorious Johann Hari story - what next? - Germaine Greer's stunning insight from the top deck of a double decker?


How about this expose from The Sunday Observator's bumptious columnist Gerhan Hankins?

OMG! :shocked:


----------



## larven

AppleMac said:


> Ah the notorious Johann Hari story - what next?


No its not the original piece. Its a follow up written a couple of days ago! 

Everyone is stepping up to put the boot in.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

According to an October report by property consultant Jones Lang Lasalle, sale prices in residential real estate had dipped by 40-60 per cent and rents by 30-50 per cent in areas they monitored.

Sales decreased significantly due to not only the outflow of expatriates, but also because of low investor sentiment and lack of liquidity, which reduced transactional volumes by 55 per cent since Q2 of 2008. Given that property prices tapered off significantly in the emirate, property investors wondered if it made sense to buy there. It was significant because Indians had been among the largest property purchasers in the emirate.

According to reports, Dubai Land Department statistics showed that majority of the villas in Dubai were occupied by Indian nationals, while the British formed majority of the apartment owners.

Out of the total 13,774 apartments registered with the Land Department between 1963 and 2008, the British owned 2,755 units, which constituted 20 per cent of the units. This was followed by Indians and Pakistanis sharing the second position with 14 per cent ownership. Iranians came third at 11 per cent. Indians topped the list of villa buyers, with 21 per cent ownership in the same period, which constituted 932 villas out of 4,436 registered by DLD.

Experts feel that though prices have slipped significantly, there could be more opportunities to buy in the future. "Dubai is hugely overbuilt. For bargain hunters, there will be enough opportunities in the next couple of years," said Akshaya Kumar, CEO, Parklane Advisors, a property consultancy.

Another reason why this investment could be deferred is because there is no secondary property market. Oversupply is also a big issue. Though property prices have been falling, construction still continues in many pockets.

According to sources, 18,000 properties are going to hit the market in the next few months. Reason: In some areas, while there has been a drop in construction by almost 85 per cent since 2008, in areas like Dubai Marina, there is still demand.

Most experts said that one should adopt a wait-and-watch policy. Though Dubai has great infrastructure, the decision to purchase should be delayed by another four-five weeks.

http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/nov/30/dubai-future-bright-for-bargain-hunt.htm


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai Crisis : This is why investors are nervous. It's not the lack of money*

Dubai's troubles offer a warning of the perils of investing in places where leaders--whether of governments or companies--have limited accountability. In fact, it raises questions about other investment destinations: China, for example. One reason why markets continue to be jittery over last week's news of a standstill on property conglomerate Dubai World's debt is the lack of transparency surrounding it. That's a direct function of a closed political system that is not conducive to foreign investment. The announcement of the restructuring has been handled abysmally. Even with Dubai World divulging long-awaited details Monday, information has been spotty and contradictory. It's still not clear which creditors will be hit, and there are still big questions over how much of a guarantee oil-rich sister emirate Abu Dhabi is willing to give to back up Dubai's debt. Investors have been left to speculate over political motives. 
One theory holds that Abu Dhabi ruler Sheik Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan is withholding his support--despite the financial risks of not doing so--because he's angered by his Dubai counterpart's close ties to Iran. Alternatively, others say that the naturally more conservative Abu Dhabi is simply reluctant to stoke moral hazard by bailing out Dubai's risky property investments. Either way, because they can't divine what's going on in either of these two billionaire monarchs' heads is the essence of investors' problems. In an information vacuum, many have imagined the worst and have felt compelled to sell their Dubai debt positions, which in turn creates problems for banks with exposures there and, by extension, for global stock and credit markets. This all stems from the overarching political system in place. In the absence of democratic institutions, the UAE's sheikhs are not required to explain themselves. 
And as the majority owners of many of the biggest companies, they face no checks and balances from minority shareholders. Meanwhile, contract law is fraught with the uncertainty of a legal system that's low on judicial independence. This is why investors are nervous. It's not the lack of money. After all, Abu Dhabi, with a sovereign wealth fund worth anywhere from $300 billion to $900 billion, has plenty of that. The bigger lesson in all this is that investors need to be doubly careful of investing in countries with closed political systems. 
With the spectacular failure of U.S. financial markets last year, it has become fashionable to laud the top-down central planning of countries like China, which was able to more quickly put its giant fiscal stimulus to work this year. But if and when China faces a crisis, investors will have a more difficult time interpreting the actions of government officials and of the managers of its state-run corporations than they would in more openly governed countries. To be sure, the Chinese Communist Party functions with more consensus than monarchy like Dubai. And for now, China's capital controls make it nearly impossible for foreigners to make portfolio investments there. 
Nonetheless, direct foreign investment in China is soaring, as is broader exposure to its boom via assets in neighboring countries. If nothing else, Dubai's crisis is a reminder that those investments carry political risks that are absent from more transparent markets.


----------



## peacesells

High Times said:


> This whole episode over the last few days is just a gaint smoke screen.
> 
> The real story is where is all the money gone Nakheel ?
> 
> Dubai want to keep this in house so the world can't see whats really been going on.


Well, guess which famous government-run (oh wait, it's not government anymore now that they can't pay up to its creditors, my bad) company is officially excused from obeying the escrow account law that states all money invested in a project should be spent only towards said project? Nakheel. Guess why? Well, if they had to follow the law, they'd have to prove that all funds received for their properties/plots were spent on their respective projects and that simply has not been the case. Where do you think Dubai World got the money to go on a big shopping spree a few years back? Partly from Nakheel/Limitless income that should have been directed at the development projects. It's a giant pyramid scheme, and yet people still cry when someone dares to critisize the rulers who let this happen.


----------



## Akasha

Well amplesou, this is a standard thing, and if you have a mortgage like me, then go back and read your mortgage contract with memorandum of understanding, where several of the clauses overide and replace those in the SPA of the developer!

Sadly many people just follow along blindly, not knowing what they're entitled to in these events.

There's already a group of about 5 of uswho want out, and be sure we will be putting pressure on RERA and the developer to do the right thing.


----------



## docc

Ok, so someone tell me this. If things do go South for Nakheel, then what happens to property owners who's properties are in varying levels of construction? Do they stand to lose everything or part of it? How does this work here in Dubai?


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai Incorporated !*

Hi 

Exactly what I have been saying for years the place is corrupt from top to
bottom,now investors are seeing what they are realy like.They change the 
rules to suit the occasion.I would like to know where all the new investors
are coming from in the coming years now the country has been exposed
as a giant Ponzie scheme.There will be tens of thousands of new homes coming
to market from now and into 2010 and beyond with only a very few select areas that
clients might consider, they will have to be very very cheap I think for anyone
to take a punt on this dodgy country :cheers: 








peacesells said:


> Well, guess which famous government-run (oh wait, it's not government anymore now that they can't pay up to its creditors, my bad) company is officially excused from obeying the escrow account law that states all money invested in a project should be spent only towards said project? Nakheel. Guess why? Well, if they had to follow the law, they'd have to prove that all funds received for their properties/plots were spent on their respective projects and that simply has not been the case. Where do you think Dubai World got the money to go on a big shopping spree a few years back? Partly from Nakheel/Limitless income that should have been directed at the development projects. It's a giant pyramid scheme, and yet people still cry when someone dares to critisize the rulers who let this happen.


----------



## dxbguy

Hanna said:


> Dubai's troubles offer a warning of the perils of investing in places where leaders--whether of governments or companies--have limited accountability. In fact, it raises questions about other investment destinations: China, for example. One reason why markets continue to be jittery over last week's news of a standstill on property conglomerate Dubai World's debt is the lack of transparency surrounding it.
> 
> Nonetheless, direct foreign investment in China is soaring, as is broader exposure to its boom via assets in neighboring countries. If nothing else, Dubai's crisis is a reminder that those investments carry political risks that are absent from more transparent markets.


I agree with alot of this, but the flip side is.....
many established supposedly transparent markets such as the US proved to be not so. Wallstreet for example. Developers in Miami for example. Icelandic banks. Northen Rock. And so the list goes on and on. 

The undeniable fact is for a very long time, the rewards outweighed the profits significantly and fortunes were made in the UAE and are still being done so today. Dubai is very business friendly with no taxation, now low rent and geographic advantage not many places can compete with given its fantastic logistics. 

I expect, the fast money in realestate is gone for now unless you can make clever usage of credit notes on discount. But i do believe long term yields and long term price appreciation is possible (despite a likely dip by march) and its still a great place to start a business, even if you need to get some of your customers from Abu Dhabi. 

Having come to Dubai with not much and given all the ups and downs, im happy i came and am confident its still a great place to do business, especially your own business. Those who write the place off will just miss all the opportunities that come out of a 'readjustment period like this'.

Many places like china, india, the gulf may not be as (supposedly) transparent for foreign investors as the west but they offer great returns when you get it right.... no reward without risk....


----------



## jagmp

What about Nakheel's credit notes that are circulating in the market? Who will buy them? Investors will lose out completely?hno:


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> Also what happens with a huge project like JV.We all knew about JV being full of crooked developers,now Nakheel the master developer have been shown to be no different.There must be thousands of investors there who stand to lose.


Here's a hypothetical but real enough example of the current situation some Dubai property investors are in and their choices. 

An investor bought 2 apartments in two different projects from a developer that has a portfolio of 5 projects. Four of the projects go on hold, are in very early stages of construction or not at all. One is underway, behind schedule but still moving forward at a slow pace, looks like another year of work. One of your apartments is in one of the on-hold projects, the other in the ongoing project.

You have now two problems. Firstly, one of your apartments is under risk of not being built at all. Secondly, the other apartment is delayed beyond all contractually allowed dates. The choices you are given by the developer are as follows:

1) Wait until better times for apartment on hold, be patient with the apartment under construction. There may be compensation, but unlikely and nothing can be confirmed at this stage.

2) Move the money you paid for the on-hold apartment to the building under construction, but with paying additional installment. Be patient with the other apartment.

That's it. You have a choice to either accept the offer or reject it and try to get your money back. Here's what you do:

1) Go to RERA. The RERA guys will tell you to go to Property Court. 
2) To go to court with reasonable chance of winning, you need a lawyer. So you hire a lawyer. They will first try to negotiate with the developer. That goes nowhere, you pay the lawyer for his time. They then prepare the case and file it with the court. In 3 months, you get a court date. 
3) Worst-case scenario - in court, the Developer points to the Force Majeure clause in the contract. You lose, and are out of money for the lawyer/court fees plus getting nowhere.
4) Best-case scenario - the court says developer needs to pay up. Developer says they have no money and proceed to declare their off-shore unit that has your projects under its name as bankrupt. You now have the glorious task of trying to get a share of the assets of that company. What do you get? Well, your unfinished apartment if you're lucky because apart from you there's contractors and suppliers that need to be paid. 

Your options after that? You can try and get all investors together and hire a project manager that will re-tender the remaining works or renegotiate with the existing contractor. Then there's the matter of the land payments to master developer. Where will that money come from? You. 

Shall I go on?


----------



## paul66

*Abu Dhabi should merge with Dubai as one emirate*

In the worst case scenario, Abu Dhabi should merge or takeover Dubai and all its state-owned companies.

Then they should rename the huge emirate to Abu Dubai


----------



## iced

High Times said:


> It's no that simple Alan.
> 
> The wording of the Sukuk offer, and Islamic finance law dictates that the sucurity is commercial assets not sovereign wealth. The Government has no contractual liability whatsoever.
> 
> That's what the contracts say.


The Dubai govt is just a shareholder in DW and thus it has limited liability. It is possible that Nakheel as a limited company may have had its cash siphoned off and also indebted. Nakeel is declared insolvent and thats that. Creditors cannot touch the other comapnies. Other organisations have used this strategy before.

Dubai govt played on the implicit assumption that they would guarantee these compay debts. The dont have to like any other shareholder. Hence their other assets are unaffected. 

Unfortunately this will not inspire confidence in Dubai. Of course i am speculating on this strategy and Nakeel officers commited fraud without the knowledge of others.

Overall impact is less confidence and falling asset prices. However the impact will be months rather than years. the picture will be different as govts in countries such in europe may default and the DW story will fade


----------



## Philippa C

sidxb said:


> I believe giving partial responsibility to lenders is correct along with nakheel. If Nakheel dreamt of unviable projects , was it not the job of lenders to check the feasibility of these projects ? Anyways , lets see how the events turn out :nuts:


My husband's been wondering why the banks ever lent money to Nakheel for some of their outrageous developments, so they do share some of the responsibility. Also they were short term loans for long term projects. He's also said the reason why Bin Sulyamen is in trouble is that he gave Dubai as a guarantee without authorisation.


----------



## baba toto

TMZ said:


> just some information for those thinking of suing as a group, forget it, its only case by case , no group law suits take place in dubai.
> 
> Why? because the sheikhs own most of the development companies in dubai


It is case by case, yes, but legal fees can be shared by the number of purchasers/investors seeking advice from a law firm, according to www.hadefpartners.com


----------



## peacesells

iced said:


> The Dubai govt is just a shareholder in DW and thus it has limited liability. It is possible that Nakheel as a limited company may have had its cash siphoned off and also indebted. Nakeel is declared insolvent and thats that. Creditors cannot touch the other comapnies. Other organisations have used this strategy before.


Maybe not even Nakheel itself, but some of the subsidiaries. So while Palm Jumeirah LLC may be relatively unharmed, Dubai Waterfront LLC is in big trouble. Similarly, as an investor in Dubai Waterfront, you cannot just waltz into Nakheel office and expect them to give you an apartment on Palm Jumeirah - they are essentially two different companies.


----------



## noir-dresses

Abu Dhabi is really interested in buying Dubai's stake in LSE, might be the first asset they buy, and bring's them one step closer to being the top financial hub in the region.


----------



## Philippa C

High Times said:


> Docc,
> 
> You dont need to be Earnst & Young to realise that someones had their hand in the till.


It's depressing to think of the scale on which it occured and by trusted individuals who were earning huge salaries with extremely generous benefits. How mush money does a person need????

AD's not so clean either. We know of one r e company owned by a member of the AD royal family from which 22 individuals are now in prison.


----------



## smussuw

Does anyone know the lowest mortgage rate available in the UAE right now?


----------



## Philippa C

Wannaberich said:


> Wait a minute thats just pure speculation.Lets see some evidence first.


There are a couple of Waterfront employees already on trial in Dubai and the info about the 22 people from AD is correct.


----------



## noir-dresses

If you really look at what Dubai is saying, and if they manage to restructure, and wash there hands of this commercial debt, then in reality they only have about 8 billion dollar's of sovereign debt which is not bad, and very manageable. Who know's, they just might pull off not having to sell there asset's abroad aswell. 

Sooner, or later this will all be in the rear view mirror, and behind us. What a great position Dubai will be in to carry on. Dubai has managed to make there own version of too big to fail, and it's working. The world market's have already moved on, lesson learned, there are still always risk's out there, or basically, "shit happen's".

I take my hat off to them, they are player's :nuts:


----------



## DXBQuantum

smussuw said:


> Does anyone know the lowest mortgage rate available in the UAE right now?


Yes. 

6.5%


----------



## arfie

This could be abit reassuring:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8387710.stm


----------



## smussuw

DXBQuantum said:


> Yes.
> 
> 6.5%


Where?


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> Then theres the other developers on the verge of starting construction,will they start without infrastructure.
> I'm assuming Nakheel have more or less stopped work at JV?


You, as an end user, have no agreement or contract with Nakheel, therefore, they are not legally obliged to complete the infrastructure as far as you're concerned. They do have an agreement with the sub-developer that you bought from BUT there are no specifics when it comes to completion of infrastructure works in these agreements, just vague implication that Nakheel have to do them and do them soon. The lack of progress on infrastructure is definately deterring some developers from starting construction now, it's a hard sell to whoever is financing plus it makes the work more expensive and complicated. For instance, there's a large underground 'lake' covering some of the districts and dewatering is a nighmare because there's no link to city sewarage.

Oh yes, almost forgot the bit about maintenance fees. A portion of the maintenance fees in theory should go to Nakheel for upkeep of the community. Since there's no community to speak of, they may be tempted to charge you for 'building' of said community. Typically, the sum is between 5-10% of your overall fees but I'd be pissed if they charge me for it when it's not ready.


----------



## speculator

arfie said:


> This could be abit reassuring:-
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8387710.stm


Not reassuring at all. Still the same old gossip. No substance unfortunately.


----------



## peacesells

^^


speculator said:


> Not reassuring at all. Still the same old gossip. No substance unfortunately.


Yes, I was just going to say - it's all backpatting without any concrete commitments or anything really. Waste of space, I think they threw it together because they just needed something to come from the capital.


----------



## noir-dresses

Wannaberich said:


> Assuming AD step in today and bail out Dubai.Great news but will investors return?Will Dubai still become a financial hub?What damage has the last week done?
> Yes Dubai will move forward and recover but in the short term at least will not become the city it promised just a week ago?


When you look at the big picture it's all good. Not so good if you invested in realestate that is'nt finished yet, especially Nakheel, but this had to happen for Nakheel investor's to know where they stand. 

Investor's will still come, they will be a little wiser this time around, which mean's they'll just be buying finished, or near completed realestate. 

The government will keep working on the infrastructure, so don't worry about that.

I think Dubai, and Abu Dhabi will both be financial hub's, and as long as there is greed, and money to make, the investor's will come.

This is all starting to blow over already, yesterday's new's.


----------



## DXBQuantum

smussuw said:


> Where?


Through my financial adviser. 

Would you like his details? 

:cheers:


----------



## smussuw

^^ was wondering because I only want 1)Islamic financing and would finance 2)building a house in non real estate development area. Don't think ur financial adviser would offer that :nuts:


----------



## True Blue

Mid day and the only markets being affected by the Dubai debt crisis are the Middle East markets. News report on BBC radio says that Middle East markets are down between 5-8% today. UK Footsie is up 86 points on the morning trading with the Dow still sitting up 35 from yesterday.

So it seems to be that it is not having an effect on European or USA markets afterall.


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> Assuming AD step in today and bail out Dubai.Great news but will investors return?Will Dubai still become a financial hub?What damage has the last week done?
> Yes Dubai will move forward and recover but in the short term at least will not become the city it promised just a week ago?


It is too early to say what 'damage' was done, let's see what happens in December.


----------



## DXBQuantum

smussuw said:


> ^^ was wondering because I only want 1)Islamic financing and would finance 2)building a house in non real estate development area. Don't think ur financial adviser would offer that :nuts:


Ok true, in the current climate he wouldn't touch it...


----------



## social

High Times said:


> It's no that simple Alan.
> 
> The wording of the Sukuk offer, and Islamic finance law dictates that the sucurity is commercial assets not sovereign wealth. The Government has no contractual liability whatsoever.
> 
> That's what the contracts say.


That might be the case with the sukuks but it is certainly not the case with all the debt


----------



## noir-dresses

They'll come aswell when there's a clean sheet of paper, and the new restructuring is a manageable 26 billion dollar's, business as usuall. Dubai played this thing out brilliantly, they rode out the storm, and I'm very sure the business world will say "play it again Sam", we just dodged a bullet.

They're already saying on all the new's channel's it's a great time to buy realestate in Dubai.

So basically all of us who have good investment's are sitting pretty, with a big smile on our face knowing it can only get better.


----------



## DXBQuantum

social said:


> Not all of them


When High Times, isn't taking the piss, hes actually quite insightful!  

For those with liquidity i would say

''BE FEARFUL WHEN OTHERS ARE GREEDY AND BE GREEDY WHEN OTHERS ARE FEARFUL''

:banana::banana:


----------



## dubaimat

*Arabs lament Dubai woes as UAE stock markets slump in debt crash*

Dubai and Abu Dhabi saw their main stock markets fall sharply this week as they opened for the first time since a state-owned company in Dubai asked for extra time to repay its debt.

For many in the Middle East, the specter of Dubai's towering promise tumbling down is a deep affront to regional pride.

"Oh Proud Emirates, with your golden sands and high sky," said a reader on Emirat Al-Youm, "your men, women, children, elderly and wise people will not bow down or be humiliated. It will remain the country of good, a generous land for all. We, as Arab diaspora, stand in one row as loyal soldiers to this country, the truth will unfold and those who are unfair to you will know that the Emirates will remain the country of pride and generosity."


'شامخة يا امارات برمالك الذهبية وسماءك العاليه, برجالك , بنساءك , باطفالك بشيوخك وحكامك , لا تنحني ولا تذل , باذن الله , وستظل بلد الخير , وارض العطاء للجميع , ونحن كمغتربين عرب نقف صفا متراصا واحدا , لنكون الجند الاوفياء لهذا البلد , وسوف تنجلي الحقيقة وسوف يعرف المغرضين ان الامارات ستبقى بلد الشموخ والعطاء


Another Emirat Al-Youm reader said: "The whole world nowadays is going through difficult financial crises. However, many of those who once benefited from the Emirate of Dubai in its heyday are now turning their backs on it.

"God Willing, Dubai will be back on its feet. This is an opportunity to reconsider the situation and to prepare for stronger foundations next time.

"The whole world should benefit from the mistakes that led it to this abyss. Thank God for everything.

"This world is fleeting and a money crisis is much better than an ethical or a moral crisis."


العالم جميعا يمر هذه الفترة بأزمات مالية ضخمة ولكن للأسف الكثير ممن استفادوا من إمارة دبي في عز أوجها يتنكرون الآن لكل شيء، دبي ستعود بإذن الله وهذه فرصة لإعادة ترتيب الأوضاع لانطلاقة مستقبلية أقوى والعالم أجمع عليه أن يستفيد من الأخطاء التي أوقعته في هاوية هذه الأزمة. الحمد لله على كل شيء وفي النهاية الدنيا فانية وأزمة في المال افضل من أزمة في الضمير والأخلاق


Attesting trust in God and suspicion of the role of western media was a consistent refrain for Emirat Al-Youm readers:

"Everybody knows that Dubai and the UAE in general are able to get past this crisis. It's just that the media (especially the Western media) is so envious that it wants to make a mountain out of a mole hill. This crisis, too, shall pass. Just keep your hope in God alive."


الكل عارف ان دبي او الامارات بشكل عام قادره انها تتخطى الازمه انشاء الله بس وسائل الاعلام وخاصه الغربيه من الغيره والحسد تحاول تلعب وتخرب وتتكلم بأي شيء بس ازمه وتعدي انشاء الله خلو الامل بالله كبير


Readers of the Qatari based AlJazeera.net felt much the same sense of hurt pride. But here there was a stronger anger towards foreign interests:

"Dubai was, is and always will be the best, cleanest and most developed city in the Middle East. God is capable of salvaging it from this crisis. And to those who are green with envy towards all beautiful things: it's time for you to shut up."


دبي كانت ولازالت و ستبقي افضل و انظف و ارقي مدينة في الشرق الاوسط. والله قادر أن يخرجها من ازمتها. و الاخوة الحاقدون علي كل شئ جميل آن الاوان أن يصموتوا


Despite the sensitivity towards Dubai's problems, there was no shortage of analysis as to how the situation got so bad.

Writing in the pan-Arab Saudi-owned daily Al-Hayat, Houssam Aitani said: "Despite its success occupying an important position in global and regional commerce, the Emirate was a model of economic adventure not to be followed which weakened the foundations of the "real" economy depending heavily on commercial and real estate projects."


فعلى رغم النجاح في احتلال موقع مهم في الوساطة التجارية على المستويين الإقليمي والعالمي، إلا أن الإمارة كانت نموذجا لا يُحتذى للمغامرة الاقتصادية لناحية ضعف أسس الاقتصاد «الحقيقي» الذي يتعين عليه إسناد المشاريع التجارية والعقارية



Also in Al-Hayat, Daoud Al-Shariyan called for greater transparency in Dubai to calm nerves and reassure investors.

He said: "His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, UAE vice president, UAE Prime Minister and ruler of Dubai, should have expected this media coverage of his country when he spoke in front of the second conference of investment companies and international investors in Dubai, being careful to clarify two points which Dubai has suffered from since the beginning of the global economic crisis.

"The first is that Dubai is not alone, and its success is an extension of the success of Abu Dhabi.

"The second: the recognition that silence has created an information vacuum that has allowed rumors to spread; he called for this to be avoided in the future."


كأنَّ الشيخ محمد بن راشد، نائب رئيس دولة الإمارات رئيس مجلس الوزراء حاكم دبي، كان يتوقع السلوك الإعلامي تجاه بلاده وهو يتحدث أمام المؤتمر الثاني للشركات الاستثمارية والمستثمرين العالميين في دبي، فحرص على توضيح نقطتين عانت منهما دبي مع بداية الأزمة الاقتصادية العالمية. الأولى: أن دبي ليست وحدها، ونجاحها هو امتداد لنجاح أبو ظبي. والثانية: الاعتراف بأن الصمت خلق فراغاً معلوماتياً وسمح للشائعات بالرواج، داعياً إلى عدم تكرار ذلك في المستقبل


The question of transparency was raised by bloggers within UAE too. An Emirati's Thoughts said:

"What we need is action by our Minister of Economy, Lubna Al Qasimi. Lubna, instead of recieving dignitatries, why not take a step forward and set up an independent division in the ministry of economy, something along the lines of the "Department of Economic Transparency and Statistics" ? Something that will pool together all information drawn from all the emirates and release it so that investors can assess how bad the situation really is and we can start to address the situation more properly."
But there was what many in the region would consider a silver lining to Dubai's debt crisis: the possibility that Israelis might have suffered in the crash, along with Arabs.

Writing in the Lebanese newspaper As-Safir, Helmi Moussa reported:

"Israeli officials tried to asses the damage in recent days. They said that, luckily, there is an Arab boycott in which Dubai is partly involved, which prevented Israelis from directly working there, an issue which has reduced the damage to direct exports (with the exception of diamonds). But this did not prevent Israelis from partnering with the investment arm of the Emirate in the world, known as Dubai World."


وفي الأيام الأخيرة حاول المسؤولون في إسرائيل تقدير الضرر، وقالوا إنه لحسن الحظ هناك مقاطعة عربية كانت دبي تشارك جزئيا فيها ما منع الإسرائيليين من العمل مباشرة فيها الأمر الذي يقلص ضرر الصادرات المباشرة (ما عدا الماس. ولكن هذا لم يمنع إسرائيليين من الشراكة مع الذراع الاستثماري للأمارة في العالم والمسمى دبي العالمية

You can add your voice to the Arabic-English translated thread on www.Meedan.net. To learn more about us email info[at]meedan.net or follow us on Twitter.

Thanks to Ghaydaa, Rebecca, and Nouran for help with translations.



Follow Meedan on Twitter: www.twitter.com/meedan 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/meedan/arabs-lament-dubai-woes-a_b_374952.html


----------



## social

Wannaberich said:


> Assuming AD step in today and bail out Dubai.Great news but will investors return?Will Dubai still become a financial hub?What damage has the last week done?
> Yes Dubai will move forward and recover but in the short term at least will not become the city it promised just a week ago?


I played golf this morning with 2 senior bankers (world scale not just senior in UAE) and, in their opinion, Dubai is dead in the water as far as the international finance market is concerned for the foreseeable future

Anyway, it's highly unlikely that Dubai be able to borrow any money of significance and you might as well shut the doors of the DIFC for a few years


----------



## smussuw

^^ I wonder why are they staying here till now ?!


----------



## social

smussuw said:


> ^^ I wonder why are they staying here till now ?!


Semi-retired and have holiday homes here


----------



## noir-dresses

That say's it all, high end banker's playing golf at a time like this, no wonder all those contract's, and agreement's were not read properly, these guy's sound like slacker's, if doctor's worked the way they do, people would be dying.


----------



## noir-dresses

:storm::storm::runaway::runaway::runaway:


----------



## social

noir-dresses said:


> That say's it all, high end banker's playing golf at a time like this, no wonder all those contract's, and agreement's were not read properly, these guy's sound like slacker's, if doctor's worked the way they do, people would be dying.


That makes no sense at all


----------



## Philippa C

noir-dresses said:


> They're already saying on all the new's channel's it's a great time to buy realestate in Dubai.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Have you got any links? Thnx


----------



## noir-dresses

I've been watching CNBC for the last two hour's, that's where I heard it, actually when Squack was on.

Check out some of these

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15839263/site/14081545/?tabid=15839796&tabheader=false


----------



## social

Wannaberich said:


> *To be or not to be - That is the question ?*
> 
> 1/Nakheel Tower - No
> 2/Palm Deira - No
> 3/Palm J Ali - Restart within 5 years.Complete 12-15 years.
> 4/Palm J - Complete within 5 years(includes Trump Hotel)
> 5/J Village-Complete 15 years
> 6/Dubailand-Complete 15 years
> 7/Waterfront-Hughly scaled down
> 8/Arabian Canal-Abandoned
> 9/BBay-Complete 15-20 years.
> 10/New Airport - Scaled down,2/3 runways at most.
> 11/Dubai Metro - Complete 2020
> 12/The World - Who even cares?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone?


No way that Trump Tower goes ahead in its current form and other works within the next 5 years are dependent upon who the developer is and its credit-worthiness


----------



## noir-dresses

I love it, they're already calling Dubai a brief scare, the number's were alot less than actually believed.


----------



## Philippa C

noir-dresses said:


> I've been watching CNBC for the last two hour's, that's where I heard it, actually when Squack was on.
> 
> Check out some of these
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/15839263/site/14081545/?tabid=15839796&tabheader=false


Thanks, let's hope lots of people take that advice


----------



## Philippa C

noir-dresses said:


> I love it, they're already calling Dubai a brief scare, the number's were alot less than actually believed.


I wonder how the UK press will report it.


----------



## social

noir-dresses said:


> I love it, they're already calling Dubai a brief scare, the number's were alot less than actually believed.[/QUOTE
> 
> Only from a global perspective not in relation to Dubai's future prospects


----------



## noir-dresses

social said:


> noir-dresses said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love it, they're already calling Dubai a brief scare, the number's were alot less than actually believed.[/QUOTE
> 
> Only from a global perspective not in relation to Dubai's future prospects
> 
> 
> 
> That's true
Click to expand...


----------



## noir-dresses

Basically it's more less blown over, foreign press put a little tooooo much shine on there story's, it's already being played down.


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> Mid day and the only markets being affected by the Dubai debt crisis are the Middle East markets. News report on BBC radio says that Middle East markets are down between 5-8% today. UK Footsie is up 86 points on the morning trading with the Dow still sitting up 35 from yesterday.
> 
> So it seems to be that it is not having an effect on European or USA markets afterall.


Dow open's in less than an hour from now, future's up after the Dubai scare. Looking good True Blue


----------



## social

noir-dresses said:


> Basically it's more less blown over, foreign press put a little tooooo much shine on there story's, it's already being played down.


Just because the danger TO THE WORLD ECONOMY from Dubai alone is not that great, the fact remains that the only thing in worse shape than Dubai's finances is its' credibility


----------



## noir-dresses

You worry too much, in today's fast paced world old new's is old new's. Look at the way thing's paned out just from last wednesday. It's not all that bad like every one thought, all the world's media wrote Dubai off as dead, and bankrupt.


----------



## kano

Dubai's ruler Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, who is also the United Arab Emirates' vice president, prime minister and defence minister, said the global reaction had shown "a lack of understanding."

"We are strong and persistent," he told reporters.


Who is he kiddinghno:


----------



## True Blue

noir-dresses said:


> Dow open's in less than an hour from now, future's up after the Dubai scare. Looking good True Blue


Dow shot up 105 points and FTSE still rising past 90 points gain today.

Crisis! What crisis?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

A recent report by financial services firm UBS has predicted that property prices in Dubai could drop a further 30% over the coming 18 months as the sector absorbs new supply coming online coupled with damaged investor confidence in the market due to the cancellations or postponements of a number of projects and a decrease in population in the emirate.

The report is on the bearish side of the spectrum, as some analysts, and a report by Deutsche Bank, said earlier this month that the market could begin a slow recovery in H1 2010, with some asset classes and specific locations near to bottoming out.

The UBS report predicts that prices will fall from the current average of Dhs900 per square foot, down almost 50% from Q3 2008, to approximately Dhs650 per square foot. From a trough in 2011 the market could expect to see 'only modest growth' in prices, with investors having to wait up to a decade for a return to 'peak' pricing.

UBS is estimating its figures by forecasting a population drop of 8% in 2009 and 2% in 2010, resulting in 30,000 empty units. This, added to estimated existing vacancies of 20,000 units and approximately 40,000 units scheduled to come online over the next 18 months, would result in excess residential supply of 90,000 units. 


Lack of traction

Heather Wipperman-Amiji, CEO of Investment Boutique, agrees that the sector is likely to see a downturn in demand for units, but warns that forecasts remain difficult to analyse due to the small amounts of data available to the market.

'April probably saw a low point in terms of values for villas and apartments, while the summer months saw more volume than expected as investors took advantage of what they saw as the market bottoming out,' she told AMEinfo.com.

'There has been a shift from heavily villa-dominated sales to heavily flat-dominated sales in October, although October and November have been very difficult for the rental sector as leasing figures have not increased.' 

Wipperman-Amiji also warns that the market may face difficulties in rapidly absorbing upcoming residential and commercial supply in the city, with areas such as Business Bay, DIFC, Jumeirah Lakes Towers and Jumeirah Village all expecting the roll out of new stock.

'Demand is waning due to the economic environment, the market can't seem to get any traction and the data jumps from month-to-month. There was a price jump in October in the Springs for instance, but you're only talking about 10 transactions, so there's really not enough data from which to correlate a forecast. We are not an island, we are affected by everything that goes on in the global economy,' she added.

http://www.ameinfo.com/217619.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Encouraging, lets hope there is a good new unified plan for Abu Dhabi and Dubai to work together towards a long term vision to UAE's success.


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Encouraging, lets hope there is a good new unified plan for Abu Dhabi and Dubai to work together towards a long term vision to UAE's success.


and all there happy invester's who are enjoying the sun with there 10 year visa's :cheers:


----------



## iownyou

Office space surplus may spur relocation trend next year 


Office space surplus may spur relocation trend next year. (EB FILE) 





By 

Sean Davidson on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 

Growing surplus in commercial property is likely to trigger a relocation trend in Dubai in 2010, with companies in older premises expected to move to newer and better facilities, according to industry analysts.



http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...2022009_da8da7dcc41a4b17ba44f605d59aa8fe.aspx


----------



## Mistermark

peacesells said:


> Here's a hypothetical but real enough example of the current situation some Dubai property investors are in and their choices.
> 
> An investor bought 2 apartments in two different projects from a developer that has a portfolio of 5 projects. Four of the projects go on hold, are in very early stages of construction or not at all. One is underway, behind schedule but still moving forward at a slow pace, looks like another year of work. One of your apartments is in one of the on-hold projects, the other in the ongoing project.
> 
> You have now two problems. Firstly, one of your apartments is under risk of not being built at all. Secondly, the other apartment is delayed beyond all contractually allowed dates. The choices you are given by the developer are as follows:
> 
> 1) Wait until better times for apartment on hold, be patient with the apartment under construction. There may be compensation, but unlikely and nothing can be confirmed at this stage.
> 
> 2) Move the money you paid for the on-hold apartment to the building under construction, but with paying additional installment. Be patient with the other apartment.
> 
> That's it. You have a choice to either accept the offer or reject it and try to get your money back. Here's what you do:
> 
> 1) Go to RERA. The RERA guys will tell you to go to Property Court.
> 2) To go to court with reasonable chance of winning, you need a lawyer. So you hire a lawyer. They will first try to negotiate with the developer. That goes nowhere, you pay the lawyer for his time. They then prepare the case and file it with the court. In 3 months, you get a court date.
> 3) Worst-case scenario - in court, the Developer points to the Force Majeure clause in the contract. You lose, and are out of money for the lawyer/court fees plus getting nowhere.
> 4) Best-case scenario - the court says developer needs to pay up. Developer says they have no money and proceed to declare their off-shore unit that has your projects under its name as bankrupt. You now have the glorious task of trying to get a share of the assets of that company. What do you get? Well, your unfinished apartment if you're lucky because apart from you there's contractors and suppliers that need to be paid.
> 
> Your options after that? You can try and get all investors together and hire a project manager that will re-tender the remaining works or renegotiate with the existing contractor. Then there's the matter of the land payments to master developer. Where will that money come from? You.
> 
> Shall I go on?


Want my advice? Phone the developer, talk to the head honcho, tell him what he owes you, give him seven days to pay up. He won't Pay £5k to four big guys, plus pick up their flight and accommodation costs for a week. Have them tail him, take him out into the desert, forcibly deliver the message that you'd like your money back, plus interest and collection costs if he values his faculties. He'll find a way to sort you out.

This shouldn't be necessary. But in a country whose legal system doesn't work, sometimes it's necessary to step outside the law to ensure the right outcome.

This is why you seldom find Russians on forums such as this, whingeing about crooked developers and wondering whether to hire lawyers.


----------



## corsario

Does anyone know the exact locations of plots 422, 423 and 391, also known as DWF South, Dubai Waterfront CBD and Crescent Lands within the Dubai Waterfront Development? 

Thanks


----------



## pisandre

dubaiprojects said:


> Are there any Dubai Sports City investors in this forum?


Yep


> What is the future for Dubai Sport City investments in terms of rental income?


Bad, very bad.


> Will there be tenants interested during the next 5 years to live there?


Don't think so.


> There are hundreds of middle class people who have invested in sport city


Yep, they were mid-class, they became poor thanks to Dubai and the crisis.


> Is there a way out for those investors?


Yep, cut his veins or shoot the staffs of the developer


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## tehsin123

*Fitch, S&P cut more Dubai unit ratings to junk*

NEW YORK, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Rating agencies lowered several more Dubai-related entities to junk on Wednesday, over concerns the government will not back Dubai World <DBWLD.UL> and its debt obligations. 
Fitch Ratings on Wednesday lowered its long-term issuer default rating and senior unsecured rating for Dubai Holding Commercial Operations Group to junk, due to concern about government support for its debt. 
Fitch cut Dubai Holding's ratings to BB, two levels below investment grade, from BBB-minus, the lowest investment-grade rating, for both its IDR and senior unsecured debt. 
"Today's rating action reflects a further review of the level of government support for financial obligations of DHCOG," Fitch said in a statement. "Fitch's action today reflects a continuing lack of substantive information to support continued equalization of ratings with Fitch's view of Dubai's sovereign creditworthiness." 
Dubai, the commercial capital and one of the seven emirates that make up the United Arab Emirates federation, has been rocked by the crisis at Dubai World <DBWLD.UL>. The government-owned investment vehicle announced late on Monday it will meet with creditors to delay payment on $26 billion in debt. 
Meanwhile, the International Monetary Fund expects to cut its 2010 growth forecast for the United Arab Emirates because of fallout from the Dubai debt crisis, a senior IMF official said on Wednesday. For details, click on [ID:nN029927] 
Standard & Poor's followed with rating cuts on six Dubai government related entities, or GREs, including five that were cut to junk. 
S&P also cut four Dubai-based banks and said more cuts may come. For details, click on [ID:nWNA9230] 
S&P cut Emirates Bank International PJSC, the National Bank of Dubai and Mashreqbank to BBB, the second lowest investment grade rating, from A-minus, two levels higher. 
The rating firm also cut its long- and short-term counterparty credit ratings on Dubai Islamic Bank by two notches to BBB-minus, the lowest investment-grade rating.


----------



## tehsin123

*S&P cuts 4 Dubai-based banks, may cut further*

(The following statement was released by the rating agency) 
-- Earlier today we downgraded six Dubai-based corporate 
government-related entities because of our reduced expectations 
for extraordinary government support. 
-- We are lowering our ratings on four Dubai-based banks 
because of their large exposures to Dubai-based corporate GREs, 
including Dubai World and subsidiary Nakheel. 
-- We are keeping the long- and short-term ratings on the 
four banks on CreditWatch with negative implications. 
-- The negative implications reflect remaining uncertainties 
regarding the full impact on the banks of Dubai World's 
requested standstill and our continuing review of the 
stand-alone credit quality of the Dubai GREs. 
Dec 2 - Standard & Poor's Ratings Services said today that 
it has lowered its long-term counterparty credit ratings on 
Emirates Bank International PJSC (EBI), National Bank of Dubai 
(NBD), and Mashreqbank (Mashreq) to 'BBB' from 'A-'. The 
short-term counterparty credit ratings were affirmed at 'A-2'. 
At the same time, we lowered our long- and short-term 
counterparty credit ratings on Dubai Islamic Bank (DIB) to 
'BBB-/A-3' from 'BBB+/A-2'. The long- and short-term ratings on 
these four banks remain on CreditWatch with negative 
implications. Emirates NBD PJSC (not rated) recently merged the 
assets and liabilities of EBI and NBD. "The rating actions 
reflect our decision to lower our assessments of the banks' 
respective stand-alone credit profiles (SACPs) because of their 
high exposure to Dubai-based government-related entities (GREs), 
which we downgraded earlier today," said Standard & Poor's 
credit analyst Emmanuel Volland. We now consider the likelihood 
of extraordinary support from the Dubai government as "low" for 
the corporate GREs since Dubai World (including Nakheel) 
announced it will seek a six-month standstill on its financings 
(see "Six Dubai GREs Downgraded Following Review Of 
Extraordinary Government Support; Still On Watch Neg," published 
Dec. 2, 2009). "However, we continue to expect extraordinary 
support to be made available from United Arab Emirates 
authorities, if needed, for Mashreq, EBI, NBD, and DIB given 
their high systemic importance," Mr. Volland said. "Our lower 
assessments of the banks' SACPs hinge on our view that their 
respective financial profiles, including their asset quality and 
capitalization, are weaker than we had previously assessed due 
to their large exposures to the Dubai GREs. Of the four, we 
believe that Mashreq is the least exposed," Mr. Volland added. 
The rating actions also take into account the deteriorated 
economic environment, including the fall of real estate prices, 
which have started to weigh on the banks' financial profiles in 
our view. Their respective asset quality indicators have 
generally weakened over recent quarters. "The negative 
implications of the CreditWatch placements partly reflect 
remaining uncertainties about the full impact of Dubai World's 
requested standstill on the banks' asset quality, financial 
performance, and capitalization," Mr. Volland said. We will also 
assess the impact of the future economic performance of Dubai on 
the banks and future access to financing for these entities. The 
CreditWatch placement also reflects our continuing review of the 
stand-alone credit quality of the Dubai GREs, which could lead 
to further downgrades. We plan to resolve these CreditWatch 
placements within the next three months. RELATED RESEARCH How 
Systemic Importance Plays A Significant Role In Bank Ratings, 
July 3, 2007 
Complete ratings information is available to RatingsDirect 
on the Global Credit Portal subscribers at 
www.globalcreditportal.com and RatingsDirect subscribers at 
www.ratingsdirect.com. All ratings affected by this rating 
action can be found on Standard & Poor's public Web site at 
www.standardandpoors.com. Use the Ratings search box located in 
the left column.


----------



## dubaiprojects

moscowboy said:


> would you like to hire a hitman (or enforcer, in Godfather terminology) for the job ?


You guys are really clowns  but I like your bloody sense of humor.


----------



## dubaimat

Dubai_Steve said:


> The *Dubai real estate market*, as far as the end user sector is concerned, *will continue to improve despite the ongoing financial crisis in the emirate and all the negative media reports, according to a leading Dubai property estate agency, PowerHouse Properties.*
> 
> Profits at PowerHouse Properties have improved by 55% so far this year, compared with the whole of 2008, and the company has doubled its workforce over the past six months to reflect stronger end-user demand for properties in Dubai.
> 
> *Myles Bush, managing director of PowerHouse Properties, told the press: “We are performing so well simply because people are buying property in Dubai again. Confidence is returning to the market and the recent news is unlikely to stop the market moving upwards.*
> 
> “We have encountered most transactions within the high end market, especially in areas such as the Palm Jumeirah and Emirates Hills and enquiries are increasing as we approach 2010.”
> 
> The volume of transactions for Dubai flats and Dubai houses increased 64% during the third quarter of 2009, compare to the preceding quarter, suggesting that the Dubai property market is improving.
> 
> *“I predict the end user property market will go from strength to strength in 2010,”* Bush concluded.


at the end of 2008 the same guy predicted "Nobody can predict the future, but I personally believe the market in Dubai will pick up again early in 2009. A slight correction was inevitable and the global situation has acted as a catalyst. With the exception of off-plan developments, such as the Palm Jebel Ali, homeowners can sleep easy as people will continue to flood to Dubai and the end user market will continue to prosper."

^^^^Just give me a break. 
First of all this guy does not know what he is talking about, he is not working for a "leading Dubai property estate agency", on the contrary nobody ever heard about this chap and his agency before, google his name and you find out that he worked as a leasing agent until approx. a year ago for "easy properties". 
All his statements are clearly showing that he is completely detached from reality, best advise, contact him and send him to the Neuro spinal Hospital in Jumeirah to get his brain checked. :cheers:


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Well done for highlighting this charlatan's history of bullshit.


----------



## peacesells

dubaiprojects said:


> Actually, I have a friend who bought in DSC and he invested all his money and has paid 70%. He is earning AED 17,000 a month and it was like a dream come true for him back in 2007 to own a property in dubai and also get along residency visa. And they are asking him to pay the next installment while the construction has been stopped for past 5 months or so.
> 
> Back in 2007, I did warn him not to invest in DSC or any place far off dubai city, I am on the assumption that places like marina will always be of some value to dubai being Cornish area and can sustain ups and downs period. Apparently he falls into the middle earning class where at that time he could not afford in Marina. I am sharing all this info with you all that yes people need to be careful in where they are investing their money but isn't the state has any responsibility in this? I mean for genuine cases why not rera ask those developers to return the money as per the contract for cancelation? He asked for canceletaion and is ready to give up 30%, but even that was declined. So where is the transparency from the state and where is rera's role in this?
> 
> Cheers


Well, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. Should the state be responsible to pay back your friend's money after he invested it in an off-plan project with a private developer? I'd say no.

RERA's role turns out to be that of a regulator. So they basically give the go ahead for sale of project, fine developers for not sticking to guidelines and such but are not (and I think should not be) in a position to resolve disputes between clients and developers. The problem right now is that the courts are expensive and Dubai-based lawyers have next to zero experience in property disputes, therefore there's lack of information out there on what happens. 

It's not difficult to figure it out though, I've posted about the likely process a few pages ago and as a developer (or a person working for a developer), I have no doubts about where we stand with the clients and that, by and large, threats to sue and even pressure from lawyers (who are mostly a joke), RERA or courts are meaningless when you don't have money in your coffers and your only real assets under construction and will have no value if someone pushes you far enough to close down the company.


----------



## TerryPop

dubaimat said:


> at the end of 2008 the same guy predicted "Nobody can predict the future, but I personally believe the market in Dubai will pick up again early in 2009. A slight correction was inevitable and the global situation has acted as a catalyst. With the exception of off-plan developments, such as the Palm Jebel Ali, homeowners can sleep easy as people will continue to flood to Dubai and the end user market will continue to prosper."
> 
> ^^^^Just give me a break.
> First of all this guy does not know what he is talking about, he is not working for a "leading Dubai property estate agency", on the contrary nobody ever heard about this chap and his agency before, google his name and you find out that he worked as a leasing agent until approx. a year ago for "easy properties".
> All his statements are clearly showing that he is completely detached from reality, best advise, contact him and send him to the Neuro spinal Hospital in Jumeirah to get his brain checked. :cheers:


Cheers for that, gr8 detective work


----------



## sandstone

Hi guys. Who typically pays for small leaks and wall repainting after a tenant finishes out their rental term?

Also, apartment evidently developed a few cracks in the walls... who pays for that ...? These are long stress cracks, looks like from building settlement.


----------



## sandstone

Can I list my apartment with two property management companies to find me a tenant and let them duke it out - first one to find me a tenant wins.

Is there any problem with this strategy..???

If anyone has a property management company they like, please post or PM


----------



## dubaimat

gerald.d said:


> ^^ Well done for highlighting this charlatan's history of bullshit.





TerryPop said:


> Cheers for that, gr8 detective work


Always my pleasure


----------



## glover

i don't know about this guys credentials, but it seems to me that he did get some stuff right, like the future of off plans and the market picking up in early 2009, while some others were exaggerated. 

he is again making a prediction here, which others also made like better homes, that the recent setback will be temporary on finished properties and completed properties in prime areas should be back on track for slow and steady growth in 2010. *what is insane about this!*

since you popped up on this forum a couple of weeks ago, you been labeling people on this forum with insanity, smoking stuff, extra. can you please give us some info on where you come from and what are the credentials you carry that gives you the right to rip off people like this. before your respond, read the forum rules, and don't be uncivil in your response. otherwise, you will be reported to the moderators.



dubaimat said:


> at the end of 2008 the same guy predicted "Nobody can predict the future, but I personally believe the market in Dubai will pick up again early in 2009. A slight correction was inevitable and the global situation has acted as a catalyst. With the exception of off-plan developments, such as the Palm Jebel Ali, homeowners can sleep easy as people will continue to flood to Dubai and the end user market will continue to prosper."
> 
> ^^^^Just give me a break.
> First of all this guy does not know what he is talking about, he is not working for a "leading Dubai property estate agency", on the contrary nobody ever heard about this chap and his agency before, google his name and you find out that he worked as a leasing agent until approx. a year ago for "easy properties".
> All his statements are clearly showing that he is completely detached from reality, best advise, contact him and send him to the Neuro spinal Hospital in Jumeirah to get his brain checked. :cheers:


----------



## dubaimat

*02 December, 2009 The Daily Show: United Arab Emirage - The Daily Show With Jon Stewart*

Nice clip :lol:

http://uaecommunity.blogspot.com/2009/12/daily-show-united-arab-emirage.html

The bursting of the global real estate bubble has somehow effected a country whose entire economy was based on a real estate bubble? I don't understand.
- Jon Stewart


----------



## nisha

Re: S&P downgrades several dubai entities to junk status and banks also downgraded....

Khallass..hno: 

.........stupid stupid move by the govt. to wash their hands off their debts:bash:


----------



## sam69

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/dec/03/dubai-world-economic-crash

Guardian 03/12/2009


----------



## peacesells

sandstone said:


> Hi guys. Who typically pays for small leaks and wall repainting after a tenant finishes out their rental term?
> 
> Also, apartment evidently developed a few cracks in the walls... who pays for that ...? These are long stress cracks, looks like from building settlement.


Small leaks and wall repainting = tenant. You can do it yourself, just take out the cost from the deposit. The structural cracks are yours, go to the developer - they should be covered under the sale agreement and main contractor's 10 year structural warranty. Depending on how decent your developer is, they may or may not claim these are part of the 1 - year defect liability clause that may or may not have expired on your apartment already.



> Can I list my apartment with two property management companies to find me a tenant and let them duke it out - first one to find me a tenant wins.
> 
> Is there any problem with this strategy..???
> 
> If anyone has a property management company they like, please post or PM


List it with as many as you like. Typically, the issue arises with viewing, but if you're ok with giving out multiple copies of your keys, leaving the door open or just being available to open it all the time, it should be fine. Make sure the lease contract you sign isn't the typical supermarket green paper, but much more comprehensive and covers you completely. For example, I have a client whose tenant disappeared. The rent is fully paid and due for renewal but the tenant isn't there, phone off and doors are locked. We aren't too sure how to proceed - we are concerned that if we break the door and the tenant shows up, it will be messy. Make sure this situation is covered in your contract.


----------



## Spurs

peacesells said:


> Small leaks and wall repainting = tenant. You can do it yourself, just take out the cost from the deposit. The structural cracks are yours, go to the developer - they should be covered under the sale agreement and main contractor's 10 year structural warranty. Depending on how decent your developer is, they may or may not claim these are part of the 1 - year defect liability clause that may or may not have expired on your apartment already.
> 
> 
> 
> List it with as many as you like. Typically, the issue arises with viewing, but if you're ok with giving out multiple copies of your keys, leaving the door open or just being available to open it all the time, it should be fine. Make sure the lease contract you sign isn't the typical supermarket green paper, but much more comprehensive and covers you completely. For example, I have a client whose tenant disappeared. The rent is fully paid and due for renewal but the tenant isn't there, phone off and doors are locked. We aren't too sure how to proceed - we are concerned that if we break the door and the tenant shows up, it will be messy. Make sure this situation is covered in your contract.


I never understood how landlords in Dubai get away with making the tenants pay for the whole flart to be re-painted?? I wish I could gt my UK tenants to do that!


----------



## dubaimat

*is there really a need deleting such posts?*

Today, 12:09 PM #21017
dubaimat
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wannaberich View Post
Dont see much wrong with this myself.



dubaimat said:


> fair enough, nevertheless the good/bad news would actually be, admitting that all real estate agencies over Dubai are actually witnessing the lowest number of monthly/yearly sales transactions that you can possibly imagine.
> Pretending anything else is outrageous.


----------



## dubaimat

*Six Dubai GREs downgraded following review of extraordinary government support*

Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem, who also sits on a committee studying the effects of the global credit crisis on Dubai’s economy, said in a 17 February interview in his office:

“This mess globally is so big only governments can tackle it in my opinion because they have to restore confidence,”

http://www.bi-me.com/main.php?c=3&cg=2&t=1&id=31884

Thu December 3, 2009 3:38 pm

UAE. Standard & Poor's Ratings Services today said it has lowered its issuer credit ratings on six Dubai-based GREs: DIFC Investments LLC, DP World, Jebel Ali Free Zone (FZE), Dubai Multi Commodities Centre Authority (DMCC), Dubai Holding Commercial Operations Group LLC (DHCOG), and Emaar Properties PJSC.

Standard & Poor's is of the opinion that, as evidenced in the case of Dubai World and Nakheel, the Dubai government is either unable or unwilling, or both, to provide extraordinary government support in the form of timely and sufficient financial support to those of its GREs that provide essential government services on its behalf.

http://www.bi-me.com/main.php?id=42531&t=1&c=61&cg=4&mset=1011


----------



## iownyou

As Crisis in Dubai Unfolds, Quick Answers Are Unlikely
by Landon Thomas Jr.
Thursday, December 3, 2009
provided by


What's the difference between Dubai and Dubai World?

Dubai's spectacular rise from a village of pearl fishermen 50 years ago to a commercial and financial hub of the Persian Gulf today was built on the idea that the state and its economic interests were inseparable.

So, when a senior government official said this week that the government would not back the debt of Dubai World, Dubai's wholly owned investment vehicle, investors and creditors were stunned.

Was Dubai abandoning Dubai World, or was the move simply a negotiating ploy? More from NYTimes.com: 

• In Secret Meetings, Comcast Wooed G.E. and Won NBC 

• Move to Repay Aid Helps Bank of America Shed Stigma 

• Why Now May Be a Good Time to Consider Refinancing a Mortgage 

Dubai is girding for weeks of arduous negotiations with creditors over restructuring Dubai World's debt. Despite attempts by the rulers of the emirates to calm the storm, outsiders still do not know what to make of the situation.

According to investment bankers involved in the restructuring discussions, there are unlikely to be any quick sales of Dubai World assets.

For one thing, none of its properties -- a trove of real estate, leisure and financial services assets inside and outside Dubai, including troubled investments like its stake in the Barneys department stores in the United States and the City Center development in Las Vegas -- are likely to raise the $4 billion to $5 billion needed to satisfy bankers that they are serious about restructuring the $26 billion of debt under discussion.

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estat...e-unlikely?sec=topStories&pos=4&asset=&ccode=


----------



## dubaimat

gerald.d said:


> ^^ No. Not debatable at all.


I am curiously awaiting your enlightenment on the subject


----------



## dubaimat

iownyou said:


> As Crisis in Dubai Unfolds, Quick Answers Are Unlikely
> 
> • In Secret Meetings, Comcast Wooed G.E. and Won NBC
> 
> • Move to Repay Aid Helps Bank of America Shed Stigma
> 
> • Why Now May Be a Good Time to Consider Refinancing a Mortgage


^^If you would copy that direct from the NYT and not yahoo, you wouldn't end up with the crap ads in the middle


----------



## gerald.d

dubaimat said:


> I am curiously awaiting your enlightenment on the subject





> The first is King Canute, who is said to have believed that he could stop the tide coming is as he was some kind of divine King


Canute's _subjects_ thought he could do anything and considered him divine. Canute himself knew this wasn't the case, and he demonstrated this by showing his subjects that he couldn't stop the tide coming in.


----------



## iownyou

moscowboy said:


> I hear in America, tenants trash the apartment or house and even steal fixtures and there is nothing the landlords could do. The tenants move to an undisclosed new address or skip town or change jobs. IOU can verify this because he is in America.
> 
> Landlords have no wayt to get a judgment or to collect. Dubai seems to be the land of dreams for the landlords.


i dont know about other countries besides italy dubai and america but in america is tough this is why you should ask for a big deposit.
american people are trashy they have animals in the homes and make a mess of the floors and what can a landlord do?
keep the deposit that is ususally one month of the rent and if the landlord has time then he can go to small claims court and se if the judge can give him anything but most likley he wont get anything for 2 reasons

1- as you said the land lord has to find the tenant and is hard because you need to serve them with the court papers so they know they have a court date

2- most likley they dont have any money this is why they are renting in the first place so you wont get much.


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## smussuw

*Some Emiratis glad Dubai's ambitious plans dented*

DUBAI (Reuters) - Dubai nationals were alarmed by the fallout from the emirate's debt standstill, but many hope the crisis may stem the torrent of foreigners into the conservative Gulf Arab city, where locals are outnumbered ten to one.

The freewheeling emirate, one of seven that form the United Arab Emirates, sent jitters through global markets last week when it announced that one of its flagship developers had asked for a six-month repayment freeze on some debt.

The global financial crisis over the last year has tarnished Dubai's growth model -- neo-liberal, East Asian-inspired and tightly managed from the top by ruler Sheikh Mohammed.

Construction work has slowed. Dubai's debt pile is now estimated by Moody's ratings agency at $100 billion.

Most Emiratis say they are proud of the UAE's global name, gained largely through Dubai's glamorous projects such as man-made islands in the shape of palm trees and architectural gems such as the sail-shaped Burj al-Arab hotel.

But as foreigners flocked in, Emiratis were reduced to barely a tenth of Dubai's 1.7 million population and their share of UAE's 4.2 million total population is not much greater.

Radio talk shows and internet debate have portrayed the issue as a crisis in the past year.

"I don't have anything to lose in this financial crisis," said Ebtisam al-Kitbi, a politics professor at the UAE University in al-Ain. "As an activist and academic, I view it as an advantage for us as Emiratis."

"There was only the sound of real estate here, and if you criticized anything, they said 'you are against development'," Kitbi said, adding that major trading families had their own commercial interest in what was termed the "Dubai model."

Dubai was the UAE and Gulf Arab pioneer in allowing foreigners to own property in certain areas, encouraging wealthy Arabs, Asians and Westerners to buy into the dream.

The rulers and certain merchant families have been the biggest local beneficiaries of the affluence. Most Emiratis work in the government sector and some live modestly.

While foreigners cluster in the cities and luxury skyscrapers, Emiratis tend to live separately in their own communities, jealously guarding their traditions.

"Emiratis are relieved a bit due to the international financial crisis, but it is nowhere close to where people would like to see the country heading," said UAE blogger Ahmed Mansoor. "I believe the UAE has reached the point of no return when it comes to demographic imbalance."

DEFIANT TONE

The tone was defiant during UAE national day celebrations this week, where miniature models of iconic Dubai buildings and Sheikh Mohammed's book "My Vision" -- lauding a "make the desert bloom" miracle -- have been paraded through the streets.

On a TV talent show, the audience gave a special cheer when the name of the man behind Dubai's "miracle" was mentioned.

The Dubai ruler, also UAE vice president and defense minister, came out fighting on Tuesday, saying the global reaction to the debt crisis had shown "a lack of understanding."

Dissent has been muffled in a society encouraged by official media to go along with the runaway development brought about by their rulers' policies. The UAE has a federal advisory body, but less than one percent of Emiratis are eligible to vote.

Media activity criticizing rulers or harming the economy faces heavy fines in a draft media law waiting approval.

Emirati political scientist Abdul-Khaleq Abdullah, who signed a rare petition against the draft law this year, said the authorities were now keen to assuage local concerns.

"On a fundamental level, there is a realization that this country has managed to cater to expat needs too far and they paid little attention to local, national concerns," he said.

"They don't want to get locals too angry. The state is one step ahead of a demand from locals."

Foreigners are being encouraged to dress modestly, some were arrested for eating in public during the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan, and two Britons were tried last year for engaging in sexual activity out of wedlock and in public.

The foreigner majority is even cited in UAE domestic discussion as a reason for avoiding democracy, since that could encourage long-term residents to demand a say in governance.

"It's safer to have 90 percent of the population as foreigners, as long as locals can have some kind of elite status," said British historian Christopher Davidson, adding that Dubai paid only lip service to controlling expat inflow.

(Editing by Alistair Lyon and Samia Nakhoul)

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B11Y120091202


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## dubaiprojects

^^ Interesting article and I wish it is indeed a blessing in disguise for the locals, although I doubt that the Govt will embark on a U-turn on its ambitious dubai plan so easily, perhaps this will at least make all of em realize to align their future plans with the sentiments of locals to some level. 
Cheers


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## tonydubai

This is my first post on this site although I have followed, with interest, the Canal Residence story. I am an Englishman, living in England. I have had several terrific holidays to Dubai and love the quality of the golf, shopping, hospitality and hotels. This is the reason I decided to buy in Dubai. I am buying a 1 bed in the European building. Deposit was paid in January 2007 so I bought at a reasonable price. I have seen the value probably double last year but as with all property investment across the world, prices have slipped back. I'm not too concerned about it's worth at the moment as I'm very excited about Sports City and our development. 
My main question on this post is about my new RERA endorsed payment plan. I have paid 80% with the final 20% due on completion (hopefully mid-2010). My new RERA payment plan is asking for 10% on 31st December 2009. I don't believe my contractual payment plan can be superceded by this new 'RERA' plan. Any feedback would be welcomed.


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## dubaimat

*Debt Crisis Tests Dubai’s Ruler*

December 4, 2009
By ROBERT F. WORTH and HEATHER TIMMONS

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — The ruler of this city-state, Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, became renowned as a developer-king, an autocratic visionary determined to build a 21st-century Xanadu in the desert despite a legion of critics who said it could not be done.

“What I have achieved for Dubai is just 10 percent of my vision,” he would often tell visitors.

That vision took a beating last week after Dubai, struggling under $80 billion in debt, suddenly asked to delay interest payments for its flagship company, Dubai World, sending markets tumbling around the world. Now some analysts are wondering whether Sheik Mohammed can rescue Dubai from the excesses of his own wild ambition.

As the debt crisis was exploding last week, the 60-year-old sheik was casually tweeting during a tour of the British Museum — “Inspired by Islamic artifacts,” he wrote — leading many here to ask how much he knew about Dubai’s precarious finances.

Current and former advisers say they think Sheik Mohammed’s aides left him in the dark for several weeks or even months as Dubai’s problems mounted. Hundreds of property projects have been frozen, and the Western financiers who once flocked here have fled in droves.

Much will depend on his handling of the crisis, from Dubai’s role as a shining example of Arab economic success and stability to the emirates’ federal political structure, which some also see as a model. Last week’s debt bombshell has raised questions about possible tensions with Abu Dhabi, the oil-rich sister emirate that many had expected to bail out Dubai.

Sheik Mo, as expatriates often call him, has dismissed those speculations, and last month he told journalists who asked about a rift with Abu Dhabi to “shut up.” He waves away predictions of Dubai’s collapse as envious carping.

But most agree that the emirate’s current woes, like its spectacular rise over the past few decades, are rooted in Sheik Mohammed’s own zeal to break the Arab mold and “overcome the impossible,” as he put it in his book, “My Vision.”

The scion of a family that has held power since 1833, he grew up in a Bedouin home made of coral where slaves cooked goat stews over an open fire and camels bellowed in the courtyard. It was his father, Sheik Rashid bin Saeed al-Maktoum, who first dreamed of putting Dubai on the map as a port and trade entrepôt. He, too, was ridiculed as crazy, but he proved the skeptics wrong.

Sheik Mohammed’s own dreams for Dubai go well beyond making it into a world financial capital. He says he wants to lead an Arab renaissance that would transform the region. His model is not Las Vegas — as some visitors may think — but 10th-century Córdoba, the Arab-ruled Spanish city that was then Europe’s most enlightened. He has broken taboos by chastising Arabs who “sit around waiting, praising our glorious past and blaming others for our failures and problems.”

He has had some notable successes. Compared with most other Arab countries, the Emirates federation — in which he serves as prime minister in addition to his role as Dubai’s ruler — is a gleaming model of safety, opulence and multicultural openness. Sheik Mohammed has struggled to foster a culture of self-discipline and entrepreneurialism here. He is famous for visiting government offices unannounced, and sometimes firing public officials who are not working.

“He’s one-third entrepreneur, with the bravado of Richard Branson; one-third builder, with the determination of Robert Moses; and one-third Ataturk-style social engineer who is trying to coax his people to rise to the task of running a global financial capital,” said Jim Krane, the author of “City of Gold,” a book on Dubai.

But even his admirers concede that he tried to do too much, too fast. He seems to have resented his dependence on Abu Dhabi, the capital of the Emirates federation, which gave Dubai an annual stipend worth about $2 billion until at least 2002. Sheik Mohammed pushed for revenue-generating projects to compensate for his emirate’s lack of oil. He has often been criticized for relying on an army of low-wage foreign construction workers living in miserable conditions.

One of his central management strategies in recent years was a reliance on four top advisers, called “the four horsemen.” He gave each of them a different Dubai company and forced them to compete. They did so with gusto, topping one another again and again as they built sprawling industrial parks and the world’s tallest skyscraper.

Bankers and foreign advisers say that while the sheik preached openness and transparency, some of the board members of his companies pushed for licenses for family and friends, and other members of the ruling family asked for their shares in the profits.

Few in Sheik Mohammed’s advisory pool were willing to preach caution, even as property prices and asset values fell, say former and current top advisers and employees.

“The attitude within business and government circles was that you don’t pass on bad news” to the sheik, said a former top executive at one of Dubai’s leading companies. The local news media are extremely deferential to the ruling family and tend to cast all news about Dubai in a positive light.

As recently as April, Sheik Mohammed boasted, “I can safely say that we have succeeded in containing the risks of the global financial crisis in record time.”

In recent weeks, though, something changed. The sheik appeared to be under strain, and he started emphasizing the emirate’s links with the United Arab Emirates, current and former advisers say. Just days before Dubai World’s Nov. 25 announcement about its debt, he removed three of his four top advisers from the board of the Investment Corporation of Dubai, which oversees all government business. The board is now made up entirely of members of the ruling family.

When Sheik Mohammed finally broke his silence about Dubai World on Tuesday, in an appearance honoring a national holiday, he played down the severity of the debt problems and accused the news media of exaggerating them.

“It is the fruit-bearing tree that becomes the target” of stone-throwers, he told reporters. “What about someone who has seven fruit trees? It is normal for us to be facing this campaign and this media noise.”

This sense of grievance may come down to Sheik Mohammed’s — and Dubai’s — origins. While Western investors may compare Dubai with New York and London, Sheik Mohammed and his Emirati peers are more inclined to weigh themselves against other Arab countries. By that standard, their prosperity — and Dubai’s extraordinary record of peace and stability — are far more important than a few billion dollars of bad debt.

Robert F. Worth reported from Dubai, and Heather Timmons from New Delhi.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/04/world/middleeast/04dubai.html?hp


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## basheer.mohammad

tonydubai said:


> My main question on this post is about my new RERA endorsed payment plan. I have paid 80% with the final 20% due on completion (hopefully mid-2010). My new RERA payment plan is asking for 10% on 31st December 2009. I don't believe my contractual payment plan can be superceded by this new 'RERA' plan. Any feedback would be welcomed.


I am not an authority but beleive if you stick to you plan then your shouldnt be bothered about RERA plan. Ideally RERA plan should be for those who dont want to follow the developer plan.


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## moscowboy

Everybody is trying to reach a doom and gloom conclusion about dubai's future. 
As Imre has said somewhere, this is all just temporary.
Dubai will continue in its path of prosperity for the foreseeable future..
But, I still cannot figure out how dubai can survive for long without oil revenue..
It has no taxes, no form of income. the public works, the army , the bureaucracy, etc, has to be continually paid for. 
I do not have all the facts. so, I do not want to speculate about anything.

I have no idea, who will pay $10000 for a room per day in these luxury hotels.
I have no idea why tourists would even go to 50 degree hot beaches and be burned.


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## noir-dresses

I think the UAE national's should'nt have any hard feeling's, or issue's with the vast majority of expat's because they are law abiding, and really go out of there way to respect the local custom's, and tradition's. If any rule's are broken, it's ussually due to them not really knowing, or not being conscious of there act's, with no real harm intended.

Most foreigners, or expat's ussually come to the UAE for work related purposes, some are tourist's, and some invest in holiday, or permanent home's. I don't really know any expat's who are a burden to the country, and a well fare system is non existant there. They either work there asses off, or invest, that simple, no one got a free ride.

Just imagine what it would be like if they all just decided to leave ??? 

Think of this senerio, what if it was attacked by a foreign, non friendly country, who do you really think would come to there rescue ????

My two cent's, food for thought.


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## noir-dresses

This week's market place middle east

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2009/12/04/mme.a.dubai.world.cnn

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2009/12/04/mme.b.facetime.laura.tyson.cnn


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## dubaiprojects

noir-dresses said:


> Just imagine what it would be like if they all just decided to leave ???
> 
> My two cent's, food for thought.


Well if that happens, I am sure most of the locals will celebrate :banana:


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## smussuw

^^ Seriously, no Emirati would imagine living without expatriates, but as I always say, the current model is very extreme. The initial model was to bring expatriates to do the jobs Emiratis are not capabale or do not want to do until they can/want to. The current model is to attract people for the sake of attracting them and attract more people to serve them. They did little in empowering Emiratis and educating them ....


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## noir-dresses

dubaiprojects said:


> Well if that happens, I am sure most of the locals will celebrate :banana:


Your celebration would not last very long what so ever. You would have a crash course on how to speak Persian to your occupiers liking, standing in line for Iranian ID, passport if lucky. The good life as you know it would be gone forever. hno:


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## noir-dresses

smussuw said:


> ^^ Seriously, no Emirati would imagine living without expatriates, but as I always say, the current model is very extreme. The initial model was to bring expatriates to do the jobs Emiratis are not capabale or do not want to do until they can/want to. The current model is to attract people for the sake of attracting them and attract more people to serve them. They did little in empowering Emiratis and educating them ....


Im sure sooner, or later there will be a perfect harmony that both Emirati's, and expatriates will be satisfied in full. The longer they live together Emirati's except expatriate life style's, and expatriate's except Emirati life style's, custom's, and traditions.


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## smussuw

^^ No, it is getting worse, with Emiratis believing that they should be having the upper hand and seeing that in reality their power is actually diminishing, they are resisting more. Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread as I usually do  so lets leave it there


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## Richard Head

moscowboy said:


> I have no idea, who will pay $10000 for a room per day in these luxury hotels.


They have been doing so for a decade and will continue to do so, there are still plenty of wealthy people in the world and what Dubai has to offer to them is very rare. 



moscowboy said:


> I have no idea why tourists would even go to 50 degree hot beaches and be burned.


They have been doing so for many years and will continue to do so.



moscowboy said:


> I have no idea


Ahhhh, finally.............


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## social

moscowboy said:


> Everybody is trying to reach a doom and gloom conclusion about dubai's future.
> As Imre has said somewhere, this is all just temporary.
> Dubai will continue in its path of prosperity for the foreseeable future..
> But, I still cannot figure out how dubai can survive for long without oil revenue..
> It has no taxes, no form of income. the public works, the army , the bureaucracy, etc, has to be continually paid for.
> I do not have all the facts. so, I do not want to speculate about anything.
> 
> I have no idea, who will pay $10000 for a room per day in these luxury hotels.
> I have no idea why tourists would even go to 50 degree hot beaches and be burned.


$10,000 per room is incredibly rare and largely irrelevant

Where hotels make their money is from the average punter - 65% occupancy is generally regarded as break-even as long as there isn't substantial discounting

At present, big discounting hasnt happened and occupancies are fine

Compare that to the States where some MAJOR hotels are reporting occupancies of 10%


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## True Blue

News report on the radio in the UK today stated that the total amount of the bailout funding given to the UK banks has increased to £850Billion. In dollars that would be $1.4Trillion. 

Needless to say the FTSE has slumped on the news. Dubai's $80Billion is just loose change

Banking bosses, who got to keep their jobs due to the bailout, are threatening to resign as the government blocks their £1Million bonuses. They are having a fucking laugh! Sorry


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## social

True Blue said:


> News report on the radio in the UK today stated that the total amount of the bailout funding given to the UK banks has increased to £850Billion. In dollars that would be $1.4Trillion.
> 
> Needless to say the FTSE has slumped on the news. Dubai's $80Billion is just loose change
> 
> Banking bosses who got to keep their jobs due to the bailout are threatening to resign as the government blocks their £1Million bonuses. They are having a fucking laugh! Sorry


At least Dubai has a big brother (that hopefully wont be required) whilst the UK has nothing other than interest rates and taxes

In short, the UK is a basket case


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## Ali_Syed

RERA plan is "approved plan" by RERA and not a compulsary or replaces your own contractual plan. you can either stick to your own, or follow RERA one.


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## tonydubai

Thanks for those answers guys. I will stick with my contractual payment plan. 

Now, looking into the future, we will all need to register and set up accounts for the water/electricity at Canal Residence. Am I going to need a residency visa? Will I require a Dubai bank account..?

Mr Amplesou, many thanks for the photo's you have posted over the last 18 months. I await with baited breath the next instalment...!!!


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## 234sale

True Blue said:


> News report on the radio in the UK today stated that the total amount of the bailout funding given to the UK banks has increased to £850Billion. In dollars that would be $1.4Trillion.


I reckon it's a lot worse, how many other hidden loans or other lies.

Brown is still lying just to get re-elected, his only card to play a class war to win the election.

Whoever wins will have to deal with the debt, cut back on spending and make people realise this is our new economic future.

The growth we have seen over the last 5 years was just ballooning debt. A debt they have continued to inflate with QE as no other solution existed.

People don't want to face up to this real elephant in the room; instead they just try and distract or avoid the problem.


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## dubaimat

234sale said:


> I reckon it's a lot worse, how many other hidden loans or other lies.
> 
> Brown is still lying just to get re-elected, his only card to play a class war to win the election.
> 
> *Whoever wins will have to deal with the debt, cut back on spending and make people realise this is our new economic future.
> 
> The growth we have seen over the last 5 years was just ballooning debt. A debt they have continued to inflate with QE as no other solution existed.
> 
> People don't want to face up to this real elephant in the room; instead they just try and distract or avoid the problem.*


not much different from the situation that we are having in Dubai now, with the little difference that the government here is not an elected one

nice graphic from the NYT showing various countries (including the UAE) and where there debt is held


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## 234sale

No representation without taxation. 

But..

The level of exposure of Dubai, is less than 1 off the countless banks in the UK.


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## Imre

moscowboy said:


> I have no idea why tourists would even go to 50 degree hot beaches and be burned.


I havent seen any tourists when the temperature was around 50 C, I always was alone at the beach


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## Hanna

*Dubai Holding seen at risk*

With Dubai World cut adrift from implicit government support, there are concerns about potential defaults by other state-related entities. The name mentioned most by bankers and investors in the region is that of Dubai Holding, the personal investment vehicle of the ruler, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum."Dubai's actions have introduced the risk that restructuring of other corporates could follow," Barclays Capital said in a report this week. "We would focus on those with weak fundamentals and upcoming maturities and we view Dubai Holding as being most at risk."
Dubai Holding's Commercial Operations Group's debt was yesterday downgraded to below investment grade by Standard & Poor's, the ratings agency, along with four other government related companies. The cost of insuring $10m (€6.7m, £6m) for five years against default ballooned to $1.1435m a year on Tuesday, making it the riskiest Dubai corporate bond according to the market.A Dubai Holding spokesman yesterday said: "I am very doubtful that we will face any problems paying the debt. Dubai Holding is confident that it is on track with all payments."Formed in 2004, its investment arms led the emirate's international buying spree to recycle funds generated by developing swaths of Dubai desert. The group leveraged profits to build debts of $10bn, with maturities in 2010 of $2bn, according to Barclays Capital.Bankers say because of its connection to the ruler the conglomerate enjoys stronger political standing than Dubai World
It appears to have a stronger financial position. Analysts say it has a greater ability to service its debts thanks to a number of cash-generating businesses. It is believed to have received cash injections from the government in recent months. The company has never confirmed this.
Still, bankers say its investment arms, Dubai International Capital and Dubai Group could face more financial problems than its commercial wing, which spans hospitality, business parks and real estate. "Dubai Holding is not going to acknowledge problems right now. But there is a contagion effect in every Dubai entity , this is just the beginning," a senior banker said.
Dubai International Capital is believed to be looking to sell assets but has enough money ringfenced by the holding company to keep afloat its buy-out businesses in Europe and the Middle East, according to those familiar with the company. These people say its public equities portfolio, which includes stakes in EADS, Sony and ICICI Bank in India, may be sold. DIC is also winding down its emerging markets private equity unit, Middle East venture capital portfolio and interests in other private equity funds.
Dubai HoldingDubai 's commercial arm includes profitable businesses, such as flagship hotels company Jumeirah Group. The group has slimmed down faster than the troubled Dubai World conglomerate. DICand Dubai Group, for example, have merged their back-office operations and Dubai Holdings' developers have merged and been folded into Dubai 's leading developer, Emaar Properties, much to the alarm of minority shareholders who fear dilution and say they are being forced to bail out other companies.
The restructuring already under way at Dubai Holding is so deep that analysts are raising the possibility that, like Dubai World
, it could be broken up and its best businesses - notably Jumeirah - moved into other parts of Dubai Inc., such as Investment Corporation of Dubai , which is emerging as the emirate's "good bank" of assets.


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## moscowboy

...


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## Morrismarina

:lol: UK is no more democratic than Dubai !! 

We never elected Brown as leader and Tony Blair lied to the public when at the last election said he would serve a third term. Brown too scared to get a mandate from the British people until he's forced to. And we were not given a vote on the Lisbon treaty.

Brown's number two "slime-ball" Lord Mandeson doesn't even have a constituency. What the hell Mandelson is doing in the Government is beyond me and it's certainly not democracy. Not one single person in the UK has voted for Mandelson. 

And Brown was saying in the summer that he wanted to change the "first past the post" voting system to ensure he gets back in again. :lol:

Democracy in the UK is currently dead. hno:


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## amplesou

Tonydubai welcome !

YOU got me thinking do we have to get a move on regards water / electricity now ?

I have all ready paid the 2% registration fee as i feared if i might have to pay later they can value your registration on value or market now not original contract price !
Not 100% sure on this so dyor as they say in share dealing world !:lol: 

Not sure where you are from but you only need a visa for staying more than 90 days but again dyor !
depends which country i suppose ?

Do you need a bank account ! don,t know !

Do you know I am so brain dead waiting for my apartment to be finished i I am just in waiting forever mode !

I guess it,s time to get real !

Pics now a problem !!


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## larven

True Blue said:


> News report on the radio in the UK today stated that the total amount of the bailout funding given to the UK banks has increased to £850Billion. In dollars that would be $1.4Trillion.


That's total exposure and excludes the assets held by the largely state owned banks. If everything held by Northern Rock, HBOS and RBS was to be declared worthless then the UK taxpayer would indeed be stung for $1.4 trillion as the government's total rescue packages include purchase of shares, guarantees, loans and insurance schemes made to financial institutions. That's clearly not going to happen though. In fact all being well the UK government should make a profit on what it has so far invested once the banks are eventually sold on, in addition to getting rid of all that exposure which makes up the vast majority of the sensationalist $1.4 trillion figure.


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## larven

moscowboy said:


> Everybody is trying to reach a doom and gloom conclusion about dubai's future.
> As Imre has said somewhere, this is all just temporary.
> Dubai will continue in its path of prosperity for the foreseeable future..
> But, I still cannot figure out how dubai can survive for long without oil revenue..
> It has no taxes, no form of income. the public works, the army , the bureaucracy, etc, has to be continually paid for.
> I do not have all the facts. so, I do not want to speculate about anything.
> 
> I have no idea, who will pay $10000 for a room per day in these luxury hotels.
> I have no idea why tourists would even go to 50 degree hot beaches and be burned.


You sound exactly like one of those who have invested unwisely in Dubai. You think that Dubai will 'continue its path to prosperity for the forseeable future' yet seem confused or simply have no idea where that growth is going to come from.

You know the saying about a fool and his money...


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## noir-dresses

What I cant understand about all these big banks that got bailed out of trouble is, where are they getting all those billion's from to pay back some of those loans off. Kind of makes you feel they were never in trouble, and had tones of money all along hidden in off shore accounts.


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## iownyou

larven said:


> You sound exactly like one of those who have invested unwisely in Dubai. You think that Dubai will 'continue its path to prosperity for the forseeable future' yet seem confused or simply have no idea where that growth is going to come from.
> 
> You know the saying about a fool and his money...


so what do you forsee? of the future?


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## larven

A rolling back of the excess and hubris that has defined Dubai on the world stage. Hopefully that will allow the city to pursue a more sustainable and fundamentally sound growth model. This would not mean having to rely on ever increasing numbers of investors to buy into the 'Dubai dream' and contribute to what all intents and purposes seemed to be a giant ponzi scheme.

I am well aware of the problems in the UK and how gullible investors were either conned or persuaded in their own minds into paying high prices for units that simply weren't worth the prices they paid. I have seen smart people who had sound and successful businesses diversify into property on the back of the UK credit boom and lose the lot. However the UK is a powerful and wealthy country (yes despite its public debt!) that has the means to influence its own destiny with fiscal stimuli and influence on the world stage. Dubai looks awfully small and vulnerable right now in comparison. 

I don't deny that the UK has its problems and that the attacks on Dubai in the UK media have been scathing. However any comparisons between the UK and Dubai are absurd. Emotion or anger towards these attacks shouldn't be allowed to cloud rational judgement and evaluation of the situation.


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## dubaimarina2008

Five of the 10 tallest buildings in New York City today were planned at the tail end of the ebullient 1920s and completed in the early 1930s. In their day, they were the tallest structures in the world, but it took more than a decade for the Empire State to stop being the “Empty State Building.”

The real estate empire of A.E. Lefcourt, perhaps New York’s greatest skyscraper developer in the years before the Great Depression, was dismantled after the collapse. The Essex House, one of his most glamorous creations, is now owned by another Dubai Government Holding Company.

Great cities have long been built by great gamblers, and Dubai’s sheik may well be the second greatest city-builder — after the Chinese government — of our age. Many of those gamblers have ended up bankrupt, but their structural legacies remain, providing the space that connects humanity and facilitates the success of our urban world.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/the-ascent-and-fall-of-dubai/


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## Dubaiiscool:)

Approximately how big is houses in Dubai on average?


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## speculator

larven; However the UK is a powerful and wealthy country (yes despite its public debt!) that has the means to influence its own destiny. [/QUOTE said:


> :nuts::nuts:You are fantasizing aren't you !


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## Hanna

*The Dubai dilemma*

What the debt crisis in the Emirate means for homeowners Laura Dixon and Francesca Steele 

Recommend? (1) 
The Dubai dream — where property prices once rose 84 per cent in a single year — has come crashing down, along with its property prices, as Dubai World, the state-owned developer, asks for a six-month standstill on its debt repayments. But where does it leave those who invested in property there? 

So, can I get my deposit back? 

Probably not if you bought off-plan and construction has stalled, unless you had it in escrow, a deposit protection scheme. Stuart Law of Assetz, a property investment company, predicts that it will take at least three years for building to restart. The developer may offer you a different product instead, but it might be worth less. Unfortunately, state-owned developers are the ones defaulting so you’re not any safer with them — and unless you had a very good lawyer when you bought, you probably don’t have adequate protection. 

My property is already finished — can I sell it? 

Times Archive
Journey by Dhow to Dubai 
It’s quite possible, if the rest of the development is finished. Although distressed sales have dragged prices down, there is still a “normal” market where prices have fallen by much less, particularly for villas in completed gated communities. 

What’s all this about prices dropping 30 per cent more? 

Prices fell 47 per cent in the year to September, according to Knight Frank. There are fears that the failure of Dubai World could lead to further falls. Analysts in Dubai warned this week that prices could fall a further 30 per cent. Charles Weston Baker, from Savills, however, said that while it may take 12 to 18 months for prices to stabilise, he suspects they may have bottomed out. Law, from Asstez, is less optimistic. “I think we will see total price falls of up to 75 per cent. I think we will reach the bottom early next year and it could take up to ten years for them to return.” 

Are people still renting? 

Oversupply matched with falling prices has meant the rental situation has worsened. Savills estimates that rents are down about 20 per cent, while Knight Frank estimates that the prime office vacancy rate in Dubai to be 40 per cent compared with 6 per cent in neighbouring Abu Dhabi. According to John Howell, an international property lawyer and consultant, yields are down against previous years and are now about 5 per cent “if you are lucky”. However, he warns against buying anything off-plan. “Local people may be doing some vulture buying, but only a fool would buy off-plan at the moment — unless there are robust guarantees.” 

Could there be a bargain on offer? 

Analysts warn about the danger of getting involved in any development that is still off-plan: many expect these to at the very least be put on hold, and any development that is not yet started runs the risk of being cancelled altogether. However in developments that are already completed, there may be a bargain for those serious about taking risks. 

Stuart Law, from Assetz, says: “If you’ve got the money and the product is finished now is actually a great time for investors to buy in Dubai because the rental demand is there.” He does warn, however, that you will be swimming against the current. “But of course most people are panicking and trying to get out.” 

There is of course no guarantee that property prices will improve again. Prices are unlikely to return to their peak level for a number of years, with one analyst predicting that it could be a decade before a full recovery is seen. 

Is it an issue of confidence, or are there more fundamental issues of oversupply at play? 

Both- according to Charles Weston Baker at Savills. The latest development is an issue of “servicing of debt”, but questions about Dubai’s ability to back up its state-owned companies have hit sentiment. There is also, he says, oversupply in terms of new build, “although we don’t have the figures- there is definitely oversupply,” he said. 

“We have had an overheated situation there, and it will take time to come down.” 

Do I really own my property anyway? 

Until three years ago you could only purchase 99 year leases in Dubai, but in 2006 the Shekih introduced a special form of freehold into Dubai law, so yes you may be the deeded owner. However some commentators have expressed concern about the law. Stuart Law says: "We have always been very skeptical about property title in Dubai. The Sheikh seemed very wary of granting it and I wouldn't be surprised if the legal construct is altered later down the line."


----------



## Philippa C

Hanna said:


> Case study — The investor off-loading her assets
> 
> When Sharon Bozkurt was offered a chance to buy a studio apartment in Dubai’s “media city” in 2007, she thought the opportunity was too good to miss.
> 
> .”


There are no residential units in Dubai's "media city". When the reporting is sloppy like this it makes me cast doubt on the veracity of the article as a whole.


----------



## dubaimat

Philippa C said:


> There are no residential units in Dubai's "media city". When the reporting is sloppy like this it makes me cast doubt on the veracity of the article as a whole.


given the low prizing they are most likely talking about a studio in IMPZ which is officially an offshoot of Media City


----------



## peacesells

Philippa C said:


> There are no residential units in Dubai's "media city". When the reporting is sloppy like this it makes me cast doubt on the veracity of the article as a whole.


Ever heard of Dubai Pearl? Also, the term 'media city' is sometimes used for IMPZ and even DSO 

Otherwise, the article is spot on except for the part where they say that your money is safe if there's an escrow account (which is simply not the case).


----------



## maltster

"A year ago Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, the ruler of Dubai, began a fireworks display here so vast that it could be seen from space. This week one resident said that she had just knocked the annual rent on her Palm villa down by two thirds to a little more than £1,000 a month." 

^^the above quote is from an article in today's Times (uk). Anyone know who is advertising a Palm Villa at a rent that equates to AED 75K per year??????:nuts: If so I will happily re-locate!!

hno:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Hanna said:


> Do I really own my property anyway?
> 
> Until three years ago you could only purchase 99 year leases in Dubai, but in 2006 the Shekih introduced a special form of freehold into Dubai law, so yes you may be the deeded owner. However some commentators have expressed concern about the law. Stuart Law says: "We have always been very skeptical about property title in Dubai. The Sheikh seemed very wary of granting it and I wouldn't be surprised if the legal construct is altered later down the line."


What are they trying to imply here? That the Sheikh will steall all existing property from its buyers by alterting the legal construct and give it to the locals?


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## Dubai_Steve

More from the Times:


The crisis in Dubai has gone beyond debt and become one surrounding the credibility of its leadership. Dubai World’s failure to honour its obligations has shaken faith among the international investment community in Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the Emirate’s normally ebullient leader.

The price of restoring it is likely to be much more than just more prudent borrowing and greater transparency. It is likely to be a demand for a restructuring at the top: this means a much clearer distinction between the Royal Family, the Dubai Government and the businesses of the glittering Emirate.

“It has absolutely destroyed confidence. Who will do business with Dubai now?” said Christopher Davidson, an expert on Gulf economics at the University of Durham. “Sheikh Mohammed was hinting for years about a full sovereign guarantee behind these developers.

“The international financial community, and I know this to be the case in London, won’t do business with Dubai again,” he said. It’s a really devastating scenario.”

...

Sheikh Mohammed, 60, who took over in 2006, has presided over Dubai’s final growth spurt. His image appears in every marble hotel lobby and public building. He is, in effect, a benign dictator, a man not to be crossed but who wants to be liked.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6945325.ece


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## peacesells

Dubai_Steve said:


> What are they trying to imply here? That the Sheikh will steall all existing property from its buyers by alterting the legal construct and give it to the locals?


Yes, and I don't see why you think it such a stange notion. Highly unlikely, but far from impossible given the recent events.


----------



## speculator

maltster said:


> "A year ago Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, the ruler of Dubai, began a fireworks display here so vast that it could be seen from space. This week one resident said that she had just knocked the annual rent on her Palm villa down by two thirds to a little more than £1,000 a month."
> 
> ^^the above quote is from an article in today's Times (uk). Anyone know who is advertising a Palm Villa at a rent that equates to AED 75K per year??????:nuts: If so I will happily re-locate!!
> 
> hno:


Well thats the free press for you. Print any garbage and still most of the world think this press is 100% gospel. 

I recently rented my Marina apt 1 cheque a couple of months back and came across more demand than expected. Admittedly it was before this new crisis but my view is that rents will remain strong. After all if they aint buying they got to rent.

Also my view: with the collapse of Nakheel that this will lead to a an under-supply in a few years although its caused too much carnage to those in off plan.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Some comments from the CRAP being printed in the times :lol:

Why are you so obsessed with Dubai? i know its amazing compared to the UK but seriously one must start thinking that producing articles every 30 minutes on 'we hate dubai' is clearly showing that you have an agenda about them. I mean get real, who has lost confidence in dubai, no one, apart from the media who only 3 years ago couldnt have sucked up to the city more. Get a grip and start publishing proper news, your boring us. Once again, Britain has a debt of 12 trillion and the laziest local population in the world, ie 'dole seekers' who plague its cities. Please dont complain about Dubai when you live in a toilet bowl of desperation.


----------



## gerald.d

Dubai_Steve said:


> More from the Times:
> 
> 
> The crisis in Dubai has gone beyond debt and become one surrounding the credibility of its leadership. Dubai World’s failure to honour its obligations has shaken faith among the international investment community in Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the Emirate’s normally ebullient leader.
> 
> The price of restoring it is likely to be much more than just more prudent borrowing and greater transparency. It is likely to be a demand for a restructuring at the top: this means a much clearer distinction between the Royal Family, the Dubai Government and the businesses of the glittering Emirate.
> 
> “It has absolutely destroyed confidence. Who will do business with Dubai now?” said Christopher Davidson, an expert on Gulf economics at the University of Durham. “Sheikh Mohammed was hinting for years about a full sovereign guarantee behind these developers.
> 
> “The international financial community, and I know this to be the case in London, won’t do business with Dubai again,” he said. It’s a really devastating scenario.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Sheikh Mohammed, 60, who took over in 2006, has presided over Dubai’s final growth spurt. His image appears in every marble hotel lobby and public building. He is, in effect, a benign dictator, a man not to be crossed but who wants to be liked.
> 
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6945325.ece


The way The Times is going makes me wonder if Sheikh Mo has done something to piss off Murdoch.


----------



## speculator

Dubai_Steve said:


> More from the Times:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Sheikh Mohammed was hinting for years about a full sovereign guarantee behind these developers.
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6945325.ece


It was more than a hint. It was common knowledge to the common man on the street. This stance and the U turn on residency visa are the two most damaging events. 

These leaders need to show that they have substance and can stick to to a commitment. 

Respect & credibility are more important than money. Unfortunately sheikh Mo has neither money or credibility.

Its OK claiming victories when things are going well but the real test is in crisis.


----------



## dubaimat

Obviously all the accumulated expertise wasn't of much help to help the family business

Top cops make a case for Islamic financial system

THE Chairman of the Dubai Culture and Arts Authority, Sheikh Majid Bin Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum on Sunday opened the"4th International Conference of the Legal and Security Aspects of the Current Financial Crisis," convened by the Dubai Police Academy.

Attended by a number of experts from almost the entire Arab World, the United Kingdom (UK); Malaysia, Singapore among others, the conference seeks to pave ways of mitigating the future recurrence of the current financial mayhem.

"The selection of this topic shows how Dubai under the encouragement of its Ruler His Highness Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum makes initiatives that are humanitarian, knowledge-based and that which invoke research in its quest to keep a fore position in the world," said Sheikh Majid.

"The UAE has made some positive steps in strengthening its community some of which the world has taken a leaf. We have not been hard hit by the financial crisis as a result," he said.

"Since you're experts from the fields of Islamic studies and thinking; economic and security among others, we expect you amalgamate the UAE steps and (thus) we get to know the real reason behind the current financial doldrums and how the world move out of it, " said Sheikh Majid.

Returning to values

Some top Dubai policemen have suggested that returning to the values of Islamic financial system stands out as the best solution for the current meltdown.

"We saw it coming and we warned the banks because they were extending loans to everyone including the unemployed, but they simply said the police is interfering in their operations," said the Commander of Dubai Police, Maj. Gen. Dhahi Khalfan Tamim

"We told them that when things go wrong in future, the people will report their concerns to the police; and what is at hand now? We have approached experts in legal and risk management. Our job is to warn the community of such crises."

He said it was bad to deal in Usury/ interest (Riba).

"The current crisis was a blessing in a way it uncovered what the world was not willing to admit: the Islamic financial arrangement is the best, but are they willing to heed it?"

He ended by reciting the Holy Qur'an verse: 2:278-9; "Oh ye who believe! Observe your duty to Allah and give up what remains (due to you) from usury, if you're (in truth) believers. And if you do not, then be warned of war (against you) from Allah and His messenger."

The audience gave him a rapturous clap and a standing ovation

The Director General of Dubai Police Academy, Dr Mohammed Ahmad Bin Fahd, weighed in for the same view. He went ahead to suggest that Muslims who make a fifth of the world population should implement the concept of "Bank for Zakat" to help address financial imbalance.

"It is improper for the developed world to hold 90 per cent of global wealth; but the tide has changed and now poverty is starting from America. Blessed are countries that have leaders such as Sheikh Khalifa and Sheikh Mohammed.

https://www.dubaipolice.gov.ae/dp/english/news/news_show.jsp?Id=857375389&ArticalType=1


Shaikh Mohammad honours Police Academy graduates

Majid awarded Master's degree for his thesis 

Published: 00:00 November 19, 2009

Dubai: His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, honoured graduates from the Police Academy on Wednesday in a ceremony to mark the achievements of the police force in Dubai.

The ceremony was tinged with an atmosphere of joy, loyalty, and accomplishment as several ministers, senior officials, and police officers celebrated the graduation of the 17th batch from the Police Academy.
-
The ceremony also saw the rewarding of police officers and officials in various higher education studies, such as intellectual property, economics and trading, human trafficking, economic crimes and nuclear field.

Among the highly distinguished personnel was the Shaikh Majid Bin Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Chairman of Dubai Culture, who was honoured for earning a Master's degree from the Police Academy for his thesis about the management of security and moral crisis, titled, ‘Ingenuity in Crisis Management in line with the Vision of His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum'.

He was rewarded by Shaikh Hamdan Bin Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Crown Prince of Dubai and Chairman of the Dubai Executive Council.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/g...my-graduates-1.529391?localLinksEnabled=false


----------



## Dubai_Steve

peacesells said:


> Yes, and I don't see why you think it such a stange notion. Highly unlikely, but far from impossible given the recent events.


Don't be ridiculous. Do you think the Islamic locals would accept stolen goods?


----------



## smussuw

^^ It wouldn't be considered stolen by then :lol::nuts:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ What are you talking about! Imagine, they told all expats and all tourists to leave immediately and threw everyone out of their apartments (including those renting) under control of the police and sent them home. It would be world war 3, the world would want to bomb the place. Meanwhile all the locals would take residency in luxury marina apartments Marinscape, the villas etc. and relax without a care in the world without a damaged concious. I expected more from a muslim policeman smussuw!


----------



## smussuw

^^ I thought it was obvious that I was joking :shifty: and u don't have to be a muslim to not accept such thing. It isn't accepted morally in every way.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

OK if you were joking then I apologise :hug:

The point I was trying to make earlier is that the notion is ridiculous and the fact that the press are hinting this makes my blood boil! The real story here is that the press (eg. The Times) have a political agenda.


----------



## Mistermark

noir-dresses said:


> What I cant understand about all these big banks that got bailed out of trouble is, where are they getting all those billion's from to pay back some of those loans off. Kind of makes you feel they were never in trouble, and had tones of money all along hidden in off shore accounts.


I think there's more than an element of truth to the first part of what you say. The insolvency of the UK banks was based on the premise that all banks would call in all debts from all other banks when the global financial system collapsed late last year. This didn't happen, due to government guarantees. Next came the possibility of big write-downs on their loan books and other assets. Yes, some loans have turned bad, and of course many of the derivatives they bought turned out to be hugely overvalued. But many of their assets have not turned bad, and in fact have been written down below their likely realisation values. Hence, the banks were nothing like as insolvent as was portrayed as possibly the case at the time.

Subsequently, we've had interest rates at close to zero and commercial and residential lending markets starved of cash, a combination of circumstances that has enabled banks to charge a huge premium on their cost of capital for such loans as they're still providing. This has led to bumper profits, which of course have helped to further strengthen their balance sheets. 

As an aside, this has led to huge public resentment of bankers' bonuses. There is nothing clever about making money if you're one of a record low number of banks, at a time when there's plenty of demand for lending and very little supply, so you can charge higher rates than the long-run average, while the Government is lending you money at just 0.5 percent and is even helping you by buying up your gilts and corporate bonds with money it has just printed. A lobotomised cat could earn record profits for the bank under such circumstances. It isn't difficult, and we're funding it through future tax rises and public service cuts.


----------



## Mistermark

Dubai_Steve said:


> More from the Times:
> 
> 
> The crisis in Dubai has gone beyond debt and become one surrounding the credibility of its leadership. Dubai World’s failure to honour its obligations has shaken faith among the international investment community in Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the Emirate’s normally ebullient leader.
> 
> The price of restoring it is likely to be much more than just more prudent borrowing and greater transparency. It is likely to be a demand for a restructuring at the top: this means a much clearer distinction between the Royal Family, the Dubai Government and the businesses of the glittering Emirate.


If Sheikh Mo is smart enough to go along with this, which would be a big step because some would present it - wrongly - as a loss of face, I think it could actually be the making of Dubai. As things stand, it's clear the emirate will never again attract international money, whether it be to its property market or its directly or indirectly state-owned investment vehicles. So the Sheikh faces a choice between a much reduced vision and extensive reforms, based on transparency and a legal system that works, that would give Dubai a chance to earn back the confidence it has lost.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think UAE will make a new combined vision, based around new energy, new industry, new jobs, new technology. I think it will lead the way in this area. They have the funds and ability and determination to do so. I see this as phase 2, the re-invention. Phase 1 being a rush for infrastructure which worked very well, without the big rush they would have not achieved 50% in double the time of what they have done so far.


----------



## Naz UK

That's if the Dubai government has the humility and common sense to do so. So far, they've lacked both but I would love for this crisis to make them have a massive rethink, for the better.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

An Irish property firm has launched a fifteen million dollar fund to take advantage of the downturn in the Dubai real estate market and buy back properties from investors.

They are looking to buy properties in Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Lake Towers, Jumeriah Beach Residence, Ras Al Khaimah, Palm Jumeirah, Discovery Gardens and International City.

http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/distressed-property-fund-launched-200912043730.html


----------



## dubaimat

Dubai_Steve said:


> An Irish property firm has launched a fifteen million dollar fund to take advantage of the downturn in the Dubai real estate market and buy back properties from investors.
> 
> *They are looking to buy properties in Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Lake Towers, Jumeriah Beach Residence, Ras Al Khaimah, Palm Jumeirah, Discovery Gardens and International City.*
> 
> http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/distressed-property-fund-launched-200912043730.html


*Only sought after locations are being looked at and only properties which are offered between 30 and 50% below the original price will be considered,’ said Maria Fearon, managing director of Deluxe Properties.*

owners beware irish investors are on their way to buy distressed properties in sought after locations between 30 and 50% below O.P :bash:

Happy considering, how detached from reality is this irish lady?


----------



## dubaimat

Wannaberich said:


> Ive asked the mods to explain why DSO is under 'Media City' but no answer.
> It should be under the heading 'Freezone'along with other Freezones?


seems like there was already too much talk about spaghettis on this thread, things are getting mixed up here.

IMPZ is an offshoot of Media/Internet City and belongs to Tecom http://www.tecom.ae/company-profile/
which is part of Dubai Holding

whereas DSO is a technology hub and an independent entity run by Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al Maktoum
http://www.dso.ae/

hope this clarifies the matter :cheers:


----------



## rags

Mistermark said:


> I think there's more than an element of truth to the first part of what you say. The insolvency of the UK banks was based on the premise that all banks would call in all debts from all other banks when the global financial system collapsed late last year. This didn't happen, due to government guarantees. Next came the possibility of big write-downs on their loan books and other assets. Yes, some loans have turned bad, and of course many of the derivatives they bought turned out to be hugely overvalued. But many of their assets have not turned bad, and in fact have been written down below their likely realisation values. Hence, the banks were nothing like as insolvent as was portrayed as possibly the case at the time.
> 
> Subsequently, we've had interest rates at close to zero and commercial and residential lending markets starved of cash, a combination of circumstances that has enabled banks to charge a huge premium on their cost of capital for such loans as they're still providing. This has led to bumper profits, which of course have helped to further strengthen their balance sheets.
> 
> As an aside, this has led to huge public resentment of bankers' bonuses. There is nothing clever about making money if you're one of a record low number of banks, at a time when there's plenty of demand for lending and very little supply, so you can charge higher rates than the long-run average, while the Government is lending you money at just 0.5 percent and is even helping you by buying up your gilts and corporate bonds with money it has just printed. A lobotomised cat could earn record profits for the bank under such circumstances. It isn't difficult, and we're funding it through future tax rises and public service cuts.


Very well-put.


----------



## Richard Head

Dubai_Steve said:


> An Irish property firm has launched a fifteen million dollar fund to take advantage of the downturn in the Dubai real estate market and buy back properties from investors.
> 
> They are looking to buy properties in Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Lake Towers, Jumeriah Beach Residence, Ras Al Khaimah, Palm Jumeirah, Discovery Gardens and International City.
> 
> http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/distressed-property-fund-launched-200912043730.html


15 million dollars?

As in $15,000,000? 

As in 55 million chips?

If they bought 2 medium priced properties in each of the locations listed they would be spent out. Hardly the rebirth of the gold rush is it?


----------



## dubaiprojects

Dubai_Steve said:


> An Irish property firm has launched a fifteen million dollar fund to take advantage of the downturn in the Dubai real estate market and buy back properties from investors.
> 
> They are looking to buy properties in Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Lake Towers, Jumeriah Beach Residence, Ras Al Khaimah, Palm Jumeirah, Discovery Gardens and International City.
> 
> http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/distressed-property-fund-launched-200912043730.html


The irish company probably thinking that 15 million will enough to buy properties from distress sellers and I bet they are hoping to make 100 million from it later. Are they thinking big or small? 

Cheers


----------



## dubaiprojects

Dubai marina lake! is it recycled now and then from the sea , and how often ? The color of the water in some pictures is greenish, looks as if it is gotten too dirty. Another question is what happens to the JLT Lake? will there be any lake or the idea abandoned? I saw some sort of a pond around a block of buildings in JLT, what is that for?

Cheers


----------



## Wigger68

tonydubai said:


> I am buying a 1 bed in the European building. Deposit was paid in January 2007 so I bought at a reasonable price. I have paid 80% with the final 20% due on completion (hopefully mid-2010). My new RERA payment plan is asking for 10% on 31st December 2009. I don't believe my contractual payment plan can be superceded by this new 'RERA' plan. Any feedback would be welcomed.


TonyDubai, I am in exactly the same boat as you, also buying in EUR in Jan-07. So I've paid 80% and would prefer to hold back the 20% to final completion as per the terms that I have so rigidly complied with all along. It is not clear though if we will be treated as missing a payment on 31-Dec? I also follow the posts with interest but cannot add much as not often visiting. I am British, living in Ireland. Roll-on the completion date - it's going to be worth it for sure...


----------



## shagdash

Dubai: A High Rise, Then a Steep Fall 

DUBAI -- As financial crisis roiled much of the world in October 2008, the head of Dubai's biggest state-owned developer unveiled his latest megaproject: a $38 billion development that would include a tower nearly two-thirds of a mile tall.

"I'm sure most of you are asking why we're launching this, and you'd be mad not to question it," said the executive, Chris O'Donnell, at a news conference. Though there would be economic ups and downs in the years needed to build the tower, he told listeners, demand would continue to outstrip supply.

"The fundamentals in the market are too strong," he said. "There won't be a crash."

Since then, residential real-estate prices in Dubai have slumped by almost 50%. Developers have slashed jobs and scrapped projects. Groundbreaking on the tower was long ago put on hold. The yearlong retrenchment culminated in last week's surprise announcement that Dubai would seek to restructure $26 billion of debts owed by Dubai World, the holding company for many of the government's port, infrastructure and real-estate businesses.

Behind this jolt was one of the world's most concentrated property bubbles. Some $430 billion worth of construction projects have been scrapped across the United Arab Emirates, a desert country with a population of just 4.5 million and an area smaller than South Carolina. The majority were slated for the emirate of Dubai, according to estimates by the Middle East Economic Digest, a regional projects tracker.

The boom was fueled by easy credit, a poorly regulated market overrun by speculators, and cheerleading from Dubai officials -- including the hereditary ruler, Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum.

His vision for the city -- a tolerant, modern metropolis open to the world, its many faiths and some of its excesses -- has long rankled conservative Arab neighbors, including some officials in Abu Dhabi, the buttoned-down capital of the U.A.E. But for others, Dubai became a symbol of what a modern Arab state might achieve if it embraced the West and its financial system. President Barack Obama, in a June speech to the Muslim world in Cairo, singled out Dubai as a place where economic development worked.

Dubai's soaring skyline is a symbol of pride here. At a National Day parade this week, men dressed in traditional Arab garb pushed floats consisting of scale models of the city's iconic buildings. There were models of the Burj Dubai -- the world's tallest skyscraper, due to open next month -- as well as the sail-shaped Burj Al Arab hotel and the Mall of the Emirates, which houses an indoor ski slope.

"Our leaders have been able to achieve all of this," said Ahmed Al Hammadi, watching the parade. As for the current debt crisis, "we will come out of it stronger," he said.

Officials and developers justified the breakneck pace at which these were built by touting Dubai's proximity to both Asia and Europe, its tax-free and tolerant way of life and its position as the region's business hub. Foreign executives, architects and real-estate brokers flocked here for the seemingly limitless scope to pursue big projects. International debt and property investors bought into the dream, too, until global financial markets seized up and much of the world plunged into recession. Then, buyers began to bail out, employers shed staff and companies put expansion on hold.

The result is a jaw-dropping real-estate overhang. "To Let" signboards adorn the facades of dozens of recently finished buildings along Sheikh Zayed Road, the superhighway that cuts through the city's canyon of skyscrapers. Office vacancies in new buildings run at 41%, according to international property agency Colliers International.

After taking markets by surprise last week with a request to delay debt payments at Dubai World by six months or more, the government here said early Tuesday it would begin a multiphase restructuring effort aimed at the company's debt, including $6 billion related to lending by the state-owned property developer, Nakheel. It said the restructuring would include the assessment of "deleveraging options," including asset sales. Dubai World said it had started discussions with its banks and these were proceeding on a "constructive basis."

International securities markets recovered their poise after a scare, but the effects aren't just financial. The debt announcement appeared to open a fresh rift between Dubai and U.A.E. capital Abu Dhabi. Federal officials there were livid at being left in the dark by Dubai's decision to seek a debt standstill, say people familiar with the situation. The rift has the potential to unsettle an important U.S. ally in the Persian Gulf, because Dubai, as a re-export hub and offshore financial center for Iranian businesses, is seen as key to U.S. efforts to isolate Iran.

Dubai and Abu Dhabi officials have underscored unity in recent days. But while the U.A.E. federal government orchestrated a $10 billion bailout earlier this year for Dubai companies, it hasn't stepped in to offer assistance to Dubai World.

Dubai's growth began in the early 1980s when Sheik Mohammed and his father pushed to diversify the economy in the face of dwindling oil. Dubai built luxury beachside hotels to lure wealthy visitors from India, Asia and the Middle East, plus package tours from Europe and Russia. In 2002, Sheik Mohammed opened the door to foreign ownership of property in certain developments. With little more than a brochure and a floor plan, buyers began to slap down deposits on townhouses, apartments and villas that wouldn't be ready for years.

Aarti Chana was living in the U.K. in 2004 when Nakheel pitched a project called Palm Jebel Ali to prospective buyers. As the second piece of a spectacular development jutting out in the sea in the shape of a palm tree, Palm Jebel Ali would include homes built on stilts, forming a 7.5-mile chain spelling out an Arabic poem written by Sheik Mohammed. "It takes a man of great vision to write on water," the poem reads in part.

Many units would be ready for occupancy by December 2009, Nakheel said. Ms. Chana, now 38 years old, put 10% down on a $780,000 five-bedroom beachfront villa and, making plans to settle here, sold her house near London. "I believed in the Dubai story," she says.

In 2006, Sheik Mohammed consolidated a handful of government businesses into the Dubai World holding company, with Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem as its leader. To head Nakheel, Mr. Sulayem, in turn, plucked Mr. O'Donnell from Australia, where he headed a fast-growing property fund.

Messrs. Sulayem and O'Donnell declined to comment for this article. A spokesman for Nakheel didn't respond to emailed questions, nor did a spokesman for Dubai's ruler.

Nakheel was on a roll, preparing to open the first of the palm developments, Palm Jumeirah, and planning the next two. In September 2006, at a separate, 914-acre residential community called Jumeirah Park, villas starting at $654,000 sold out in a day. International banks and local lenders offered loans for up to 97% of the purchase price.

To help finance all this construction, Mr. O'Donnell turned to the bond markets. An investor presentation in November 2006 called Dubai a "vantage access point" that would draw in businessmen from a wide swath of the greater Middle East, from India to Egypt. It projected that Dubai's population, then just under 1.2 million, would grow by two million in 14 years.

Investors rushed to buy a piece of Nakheel's Islamic bond, known as a sukuk. Swamped by demand, the borrower increased the issue's size to $3.5 billion.

That year, Dubai's real-estate sector raised $4.9 billion through bonds and syndicated loans, according to data provided by Thomson Reuters. Real-estate borrowing soared in 2008 to $30.4 billion.

In 2007, a Dubai World affiliate bought the Queen Elizabeth 2, unveiling plans to moor the ocean liner at the Palm Jumeirah and turn it into a luxury hotel.

By then, cracks in the real-estate market were forming. Officials had put few regulations on development that might limit the speculation. Now, concerned that the market had grown overheated, they did so. And in early 2008, authorities embarked on a series of high-profile corruption investigations at some big real-estate and finance firms.

But police, courts and the companies themselves disclosed little about the probes. As a result of the lack of transparency, the crackdown on corruption, instead of comforting investors, spooked them.

"There is a complete distrust by investors in the system," said Michael Diaz, a Miami-based attorney with offices in Dubai. Dubai and U.A.E. officials say they have made efforts to improve the legal system.

In April 2008, police detained the Lebanese-American chief executive of one of Dubai's top developers. The company didn't disclose the arrest until after it was reported in the press. He denied wrongdoing

A string of other detentions followed at some of Dubai's biggest companies, including Nakheel. A Nakheel spokesman didn't answer emailed questions about the probe.

Typical was the case of British developer Arthur Fitzwilliam, an affable 58-year-old polo fan from London. He had lived in Dubai for two decades, dabbling in real estate and other ventures. In 2004, he inked a deal to develop a 14.5 million-square-foot plot of desert acquired from a government-controlled company.

The Plantation Equestrian and Polo Club would have air-conditioned stables for 800 horses, four polo fields, facilities to host horse shows and a five-star hotel. Mr. Fitzwilliam sought partners to help finance the project. A British banker agreed to provide financing, in exchange for a 30% stake, Mr. Fitzwilliam said in an interview.

But in June 2008, authorities detained Mr. Fitzwilliam, the banker and one other. Then in September, Dubai Islamic Bank, or DIB, foreclosed on the land for the project. It also seized more than 100 polo ponies, Mr. Fitzwilliam said. For almost a year, he sat in jail before charges were filed. In March 2009, authorities charged seven men with scheming to defraud DIB, according to a bill of indictment filed by Dubai's public prosecutors. Mr. Fitzwilliam was accused of aiding the scheme.

Last month, he was transferred to a Dubai hospital to undergo tests for cancer. Four Dubai police officers stood guard outside his room.

Mr. Fitzwilliam denied any wrongdoing, as did the British banker he was working with. "I want a fair trial, and I'm prepared to go with the system," he says, shackled to his hospital bed. "Anyone who knows the case knows I'm not guilty."

A spokesman for the Dubai prosecutor's office didn't respond to requests for comment.

Amid the uncertainty surrounding the arrests, the crisis roiling the rest of the world was catching up with Dubai. When global credit markets froze up in late 2008, international investors stopped buying Dubai property. Some who had already bought stopped making installment payments. Nakheel and others shed staff and scrapped or delayed dozens of projects.

Last February, the troubles touched Ms. Chana's plan for a new home in Dubai. Nakheel halted work on the Palm Jebel Ali. Though dredging had been done, little construction had.

Ms. Chana says she has sunk about $550,000 into her still-unfinished home. Earlier this year, she flew to Dubai to try to salvage the investment. She is living in a hotel-apartment with her daughter, helping to organize other investors and petition Nakheel for rebates. "I just won't let this drop," she says. "It's become my obsession."

In October, Nakheel proposed that Jebel Ali investors transfer their contracts to property elsewhere that is already finished or close to it.

Simon Murphy bought a $240,000 ground-floor apartment in the Palm Jumeirah in 2002 and moved in five years later. He is now a "resident representative" to Nakheel, like being part of a homeowners board. He says that in recent weeks, Nakheel has cut back on maintenance, including tree trimming.

Since Dubai's debt-standstill announcement, Mr. Murphy says, many apartment residents have stopped paying management fees, typically around $700 a month. Nakheel declined to comment. "Most people fear that their money will go into the bottomless pit of Nakheel debt," Mr. Murphy says.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125988807548075805.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews

It reads like saga, and the villianof the piece is the greedy speculator only aided by visions of never ending profits and no capital gains tax, that led upto this final calamitous moment.


----------



## Koi

Dubai World's dept would be reduced by a third if Sheikh Mo (worth $25b) is forced to pay up....


----------



## iownyou

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/nearly-there-1.525321

As reports start coming in that property prices are beginning to rise, developers and realty agents are speculating whether the market has indeed bottomed out. Among these is Hesham Elfar, CEO of Coldwell Banker UAE, who says that while the bottom of the market is hard to determine, "One thing is for sure, if we have not reached the bottom, we are very close to the bottom."

Hesham predicts there will be a further dip in prices before things improve. "In the next six months, villa prices should remain stable while apartments might see a drop of 5-7 per cent due to excess supply expected in the coming months. With commercial properties we are expecting a downtrend in prices, also due to upcoming supply."


----------



## moscowboy

I believe Dubai is still a good investment.

If they build the Dubai land amusement parks, Dubai would be a better investment. That is my opinion.


----------



## peacesells

dubaimat said:


> whereas DSO is a technology hub and an independent entity run by Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al Maktoum
> http://www.dso.ae/
> 
> hope this clarifies the matter :cheers:


DSO is actually an off-shoot from Dubai Airport Freezone. Hence the Emirates Airlines village, old DSOA offices being in DAFZA and the fact that on title deeds you would get Nad Al Sheba DAFZA instead of DSOA written on it. It has nothing to do with media but it is a freezone.


----------



## speculator

Dubai_Steve said:


> I think UAE will make a new combined vision, based around new energy, new industry, new jobs, new technology. I think it will lead the way in this area. They have the funds and ability and determination to do so. I see this as phase 2, the re-invention. Phase 1 being a rush for infrastructure which worked very well, without the big rush they would have not achieved 50% in double the time of what they have done so far.


They have the funds for sure but they do not have unity. They cant progress as a united nation unless they have unity. They all seem to have an own agenda. They are too immature and myopic for progression. They need to have one central powerhouse whereas at the moment it seems a tugging match. I think a classic example of too many chiefs/sheiks.

Sheikh Mo could have carried on with his obscene ambitions if the storm had'nt come in and AD would have just carried on saving and living in the middle ages. AD are now in the limelight and im not sure if they have the wits and courage to cope with it.

AD appear like a big brother scrooge and Dubai like a spoilt brat that has spent up. They need to grow up and show leadership. 

In reality even if Dubai government is not legally bound to Dubai worlds debt they simply should help. Running is not the solution.


----------



## Spurs

Isn't it Islamic law not to be indebted to another person?? If so the Dubai Inc debt must be very embarrassing amongst the Islamic world.


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*Another Dumb Bum report*

:nuts:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iJPTk-gd6SrTrMq4Fk3hSi2zjCfQ
It says that the UAE had a population of 6.4 million people in 2007 :lol:


----------



## agod

^^^^^^

Funnily enough, whenever you speak to people who have visited Dubai, you never get a bad report.....

The wife has just gone to pick up our neice and baby from the airport, her South African boss, lent us a cot, our German neighbour, lent us there stroller, and our Russian friend, some blankets, and other bits and peices............. we would have struggled in London, trying to borrow that stuff.

Rock on Dubai, and its Multi Culture.

Alan


----------



## iownyou

FWIW said:


> Isn't Islam the only religion that forbids usury?
> 
> Quote from http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/usury.html
> 
> Now consider what the Qur'ân has to say on the subject of usury, that is lending money at interest:
> 
> Those who devour usury will not stand except as stands one whom the devil by his touch has driven to madness. That is because they say: Trade is like usury: but *Allah has permitted trade and forbidden usury*.... Allah will deprive usury of all blessing, but will give increase for deeds of charity, for He loves not any ungrateful sinner.... O you who believe, fear Allah and give up what remains of your demand for usury, if you are indeed believers. If you do it not, take notice of war from Allah and His messenger, but if you repent you shall have your capital sums; deal not unjustly, and you shall not be dealt with unjustly. And if the debtor is in difficulty, grant him time tin it is easy for him to repay. But if you remit it by way of charity, that is best for you if you only knew. [Surah al Baqarah, verse 275-280].



the bible also prohibits usery and so does the torah of the jews.
interest is one of the biggest problems in the world.
interest gives a bigger gap between rich and poor.
interest makes peple lazy.
i was born cristian and converted to islam 7 years ago.


----------



## Imre

I got by email from the Dubai Properties , prices are not too bad but there is just desert:

Layan is an exclusive gated residential community situated in the heart of DUBAILAND® offering a luxurious enclave of Mediterranean styled villas and apartments away from the traffic and noise of the city. 

Set in a serene environment against a backdrop of desert sky, it is minutes away from the sporting, shopping and entertainment action within DUBAILAND®. 

Call 800 SALWAN (725926) 
to receive our introductory offers or email: [email protected] 

Unit Type Unit Area Prices from 
2 B/R apartment 1340 sq ft AED 65,000 
3 B/R apartment 1755 sq ft AED 90,000 
2 B/R villa 1860 sq ft AED 100,000
3 B/R villa 3804 sq ft AED 150,000 
4 B/R villa 4101 sq ft AED 170,000


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> I cant make a connection between the goverment not being transparent and the constant attacks on all things Dubai.Also,yes some things they report are spot on and then again much isnt.
> If what you said is true,this by no means explains why Dubai seemingly above any other part of the world is receiving by far the most abuse.Is it because of a lack of transparency?bollocks is it.Other countries operate the same but arent attacked this way.
> What you have are a bunch of hopeless journos writing thier reports based on reading each others muck.
> Germaine Greer wrote her article based on a four hour bus trip through Dubai.
> Whats that go to do with a lack of transparency?Then you have the Times journo who admitted all his info came from reading travel guides.YOU COULDN'T MAKE IT UP !
> They detest the wealth on display.The huge skyscrapers,luxury yachts,$20m appartments,Arabs flaunting their wealth etc.We marvel at the amazing buildings for their design and vision,they with a pompous attitude ridicule them.
> If they want to criticise Dubai then fine.My argument is dont single out Dubai.
> Transparency?No sorry.


If anything, the critics from the West should be seen as a much needed kick in the a** to Sheikh Mo and company for being, as it turns out, incompetent at what they're doing. A country where everyone is either too stupid, too scared or simply has his mouth shut by the censors is no better in the long run than places like North Korea and I cannot fathom why any local would be standing behind a leader who refuses to be criticized.

It's not about jealousy or Jews hating Arabs, it's karma and I'm for one glad they finally see that they cannot get away with incompetence and not be called out on it.


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## 234sale

Emaar / Dubai Properties Merger has been put on hold / cancelled.

This explains the drop in Emaar share price over last 3 days


----------



## Imre

I think this is good news for the Business Bay ,its still going on


----------



## social

234sale said:


> Emaar / Dubai Properties Merger has been put on hold / cancelled.
> 
> This explains the drop in Emaar share price over last 3 days


Emaar share price should rise not fall on this news

If the merger had gone ahead, Emaar would've been a small part of a large dog with a huge number of fleas

As a stand alone company, it is solid


----------



## Imre

social said:


> As a stand alone company, it is solid


Its ok but what will they do without money?

Just have a look their projects , almost everything ON HOLD, they are working around the Burj Dubai thats all, rest of Downtown Burj Dubai area still rubbish, nothing in Dubai Marina , no landscaping, no parks etc..

They have many properties but no income because still dreaming and their prices are double as the market price.


----------



## Richard Head

Emaar has been limit down (10%) every day for 3 or 4 days now. Buyers will be back this morning on this news I think. Regardless of the financial realities, perception is that Emaar have weathered the storm better than most and are much stronger than the entities they were planning to merge with.

Huge buy signal. We'll see if i'm right in the next hour.


----------



## Richard Head

^^ Don't ever take investment advice from this guy. Emaar down 5% in early trading.....:cheers:


----------



## peacesells

social said:


> Emaar share price should rise not fall on this news
> 
> If the merger had gone ahead, Emaar would've been a small part of a large dog with a huge number of fleas
> 
> As a stand alone company, it is solid


I wouldn't call them 'solid' since they are, by and large, a property developer with main area of operation being Dubai, UAE. Having said that, the whole merger didn't make much sense because essentially Dubai Holding and co were trying to unload their loss-making units onto Emaar, therefore, sucking dry whatever revenue they have incoming from hotels/retail/education/hospitals.


----------



## iced

peacesells said:


> Sorry, there's more than that to this whole issue and here's my take on it:
> 
> 1) Western press seem harsh because their UAE counterparts are all about rainbows, unicorns and great achievements of Sheikh Whatever.
> 
> 2) If the government did the right thing and started being transparent on issues that, you know, affect the people then maybe the Western press wouldn't be able to make up 'lies' (a lot of what has been said recently is spot on) and the local population wouldn't be so shocked to hear them.


I agree along wiht the fact that the gulf has a lot of natural resources. The other interesting part is maybe the idea of not continuing with the dollar. All these are real threats.

I wonder how many treasury bonds dubai has purchased from the US which could be used to repay debt.


----------



## firoz bharmal

Lets taking granted that Emmar and Nakheel is bankrupt....now pls update what are the further steps taken by them to caryy on ......Also not forget that all the country that developed drastically faces such a credit crisis...e.g ....China in 1998...South Korea 1992.....US 2008....Russia 1986-92.....but now all risisng after some dip.....lets hope that some solutions in further year will boost again ......DUBAI.....


----------



## 234sale

They need to start a new plan now, rather than just doing nothing. 
As an example, A change the affection plan for Business Bay, scrap the existing plot plan.. By doing so they could create new plots and sell them. I don't think we need small single plot towers, better to have larger building complex's like Bay Square. Also by changing the plan it will become difficult for contesting owner ship in the future of failed developments.
An extension of old town design would be great, with souq style feel. Old town and Downtown is a international success in my book. 
They need to reconsider the number of facility buildings need to be reduced as the demand will not be as originally planned. 3 years from now we will just have completed buildings with very little under construction.
The only reason why Dubai was great in the boom day's was because of the gold rush, with no incentive for development Dubai losses its key driver. For sure people will come and visit or want to be a Tax migrant to here, but these people are not enough to sustain the system.
RERA regulation these days only put extra issues to restarting the market. The regulation hoops have made it impossible to start a new project without massive investment. Due to this I see the value of land now effectively zero as the amount of investment required to start anything is physically unattainable, due to borrowing being in excess of 10%. This is based on the assumption of you can’t sell something it’s worth nothing.
Companies that I work with have no plan for expanse, just too efficiently service existing business.
Waiting to see is not a successful plan. It just makes the problem longer and deeper. Doing something is better than just talk. Unfortunately what a read just seems to be talk these days.


----------



## shagdash

peacesells said:


> If anything, the critics from the West should be seen as a much needed kick in the a** to Sheikh Mo and company for being, as it turns out, incompetent at what they're doing. A country where everyone is either too stupid, too scared or simply has his mouth shut by the censors is no better in the long run than places like North Korea and I cannot fathom why any local would be standing behind a leader who refuses to be criticized.
> 
> It's not about jealousy or Jews hating Arabs, it's karma and I'm for one glad they finally see that they cannot get away with incompetence and not be called out on it.


I usually agree with most of what you say. But to call what Dubai is getting 'karma' is taking it a bit too far.
To bring religion and theology into what is essentially just commercial transactions and hence secular is no better than what fundamentalists of all religions do - ie incite extreme emotions over transactions that would be best served by a calm and peaceful mind NOT heart.
Lets not confuse issues here - the balance sheet of Dubai be it Dubai Govt OR Dubai World OR Dubai Holding or even Emaar is wobbly and it is high time it is put right.
The markets, the press, the western media etc. are all reacting the way they are, because it is like Dubai like a schoolchild got a bad report card in the beginning of the year and like a naughty child (unlike a responsibe adult) tried to hide it from his parents (the world, the people, international community, investors, in general everyone) and finally the teacher called his parents and gave them the bad news and the parents lost their cool and blew up the child. The child needs to now do some repenting and convince his parents that he will try and perform better and not lie to them again. It will take some time before the parents trust the child again but the child cannot continue to deny everything and pretend all is fine.


----------



## shagdash

234sale said:


> They need to start a new plan now, rather than just doing nothing.
> As an example, A change the affection plan for Business Bay, scrap the existing plot plan.. By doing so they could create new plots and sell them. I don't think we need small single plot towers, better to have larger building complex's like Bay Square. Also by changing the plan it will become difficult for contesting owner ship in the future of failed developments.
> An extension of old town design would be great, with souq style feel. Old town and Downtown is a international success in my book.
> They need to reconsider the number of facility buildings need to be reduced as the demand will not be as originally planned. 3 years from now we will just have completed buildings with very little under construction.
> The only reason why Dubai was great in the boom day's was because of the gold rush, with no incentive for development Dubai losses its key driver. For sure people will come and visit or want to be a Tax migrant to here, but these people are not enough to sustain the system.
> RERA regulation these days only put extra issues to restarting the market. The regulation hoops have made it impossible to start a new project without massive investment. Due to this I see the value of land now effectively zero as the amount of investment required to start anything is physically unattainable, due to borrowing being in excess of 10%. This is based on the assumption of you can’t sell something it’s worth nothing.
> Companies that I work with have no plan for expanse, just too efficiently service existing business.
> Waiting to see is not a successful plan. It just makes the problem longer and deeper. Doing something is better than just talk. Unfortunately what a read just seems to be talk these days.


:applause::applause::applause::applause:

Can you not be on Shk Mo's restructuring team?


----------



## iced

*clash of cultural values*

Western values of transparency, accountability and individual rights and that things are black or white are causing some of the conflict and misunderstanding. Eastern values of collectivism, rigid social structure along with the belief of not causing shame/loss of face. There is a clash along with the fact that the gulf is still based on royals in charge. Royals dont have to account to their people (although this concept changed in the west a century or more ago).

So from an investment point of view, if you believe in western values then in this downturn you will be in conflict with the values of the region especially the fact that most of the businesses are owned by royals. All this means that the region will face/potray a picture of health which may or may not be correct but culturally appropriate. From a western perspective the information is either right or wrong (when its wrong then thats where the conflict lies). All of this results in a higher risk for "westerners" and most likely explains the withdrawal of capital. It may also explain the anger in the west especially from the investors who are now facing this investment cultural clash. 

Given the higher risk assets will continue to fall as capital is withdrawn and foreign investments dry up. 

The end of the light is that this may cause prices to fall quicker and the bottom to be reached earlier( rather than being slowly draged along by methods such as Quantative Easing). However for the foreseeable future expect prices to continue to fall due to this and other global economy factors.

Eventually the tide will turn but the difficult part is knowing when and when it does turn the magnitude of future returns. My guess is that the returns will be good as people have short memories and that eastern investors will continue to invest heavily in dubai. As a lifestyle destination dubai will have it niche market and will continue to flourish. Granted it aint everyones cuppa.

Come 2011 things will look different


----------



## shagdash

social said:


> Emaar share price should rise not fall on this news
> 
> If the merger had gone ahead, Emaar would've been a small part of a large dog with a huge number of fleas
> 
> As a stand alone company, it is solid


I think the large external shareholders of Emaar, didn't let the merger go through. As such, this should be positive news for Emaar. But currently the bears are ruling the market.


----------



## shagdash

iced said:


> Western values of transparency, accountability and individual rights and that things are black or white are causing some of the conflict and misunderstanding. Eastern values of collectivism, rigid social structure along with the belief of not causing shame/loss of face. There is a clash along with the fact that the gulf is still based on royals in charge. Royals dont have to account to their people (although this concept changed in the west a century or more ago).
> 
> So from an investment point of view, if you believe in western values then in this downturn you will be in conflict with the values of the region especially the fact that most of the businesses are owned by royals. All this means that the region will face/potray a picture of health which may or may not be correct but culturally appropriate. From a western perspective the information is either right or wrong (when its wrong then thats where the conflict lies). All of this results in a higher risk for "westerners" and most likely explains the withdrawal of capital. It may also explain the anger in the west especially from the investors who are now facing this investment cultural clash.
> 
> Given the higher risk assets will continue to fall as capital is withdrawn and foreign investments dry up.
> 
> The end of the light is that this may cause prices to fall quicker and the bottom to be reached earlier( rather than being slowly draged along by methods such as Quantative Easing). However for the foreseeable future expect prices to continue to fall due to this and other global economy factors.
> 
> Eventually the tide will turn but the difficult part is knowing when and when it does turn the magnitude of future returns. My guess is that the returns will be good as people have short memories and that eastern investors will continue to invest heavily in dubai. As a lifestyle destination dubai will have it niche market and will continue to flourish. Granted it aint everyones cuppa.
> 
> Come 2011 things will look different


Very well said.


----------



## social

glover said:


> this foreclosure auction has been scheduled long before Dubai debt crisis. since the global crisis hit the luxury market pretty hard, it is common today that owners/investors walk away from their commercial mortgaged properties. it makes better sense finacially given the weak cash flow of the property in question. i wouldn't read too much into this when it comes to Istithmar's financial strength.


Istithmar is dead man walking - $10 billion + in debt and negative equity on vast majority of "assets" plus many loans will require refinancing in the next 12-18 months and that will require a further equity injection as the security has been eroded


----------



## shagdash

^^^^
Some daytraders could've made a tidy sum on Emaar today


----------



## 234sale

There is a support level we hit today, so probably the computer said buy.


----------



## shagdash

I wish property markets were as transparent as stock markets.


----------



## speculator

speculator said:


> Im sure they the government will be buying when the market has tanked enough. A real opportunity beckons:


I did say a few days back.:cheers:


----------



## dubaiprojects

Imre said:


> I got by email from the Dubai Properties , prices are not too bad but there is just desert:
> 
> Layan is an exclusive gated residential community situated in the heart of DUBAILAND® offering a luxurious enclave of Mediterranean styled villas and apartments away from the traffic and noise of the city.
> 
> Set in a serene environment against a backdrop of desert sky, it is minutes away from the sporting, shopping and entertainment action within DUBAILAND®.
> 
> Call 800 SALWAN (725926)
> to receive our introductory offers or email: [email protected]
> 
> Unit Type Unit Area Prices from
> 2 B/R apartment 1340 sq ft AED 65,000
> 3 B/R apartment 1755 sq ft AED 90,000
> 2 B/R villa 1860 sq ft AED 100,000
> 3 B/R villa 3804 sq ft AED 150,000
> 4 B/R villa 4101 sq ft AED 170,000


How come a 4 Bed villa is selling for 170K (inclusive of land price + cost of construction plus profit) by the developer? That means the 1 bed apartment that was sold like in 1 million in marina should worth like 100K (for the construction material) and rest is for the land and profit (by the same calcualtion?)


----------



## VAG

dubaiprojects said:


> How come a 4 Bed villa is selling for 170K (inclusive of land price + cost of construction plus profit) by the developer? That means the 1 bed apartment that was sold like in 1 million in marina should worth like 100K (for the construction material) and rest is for the land and profit (by the same calcualtion?)


These could be rental prices and definitely not selling prices.


----------



## dubaiprojects

VAG said:


> These could be rental prices and definitely not selling prices.


Way too high for rentals considering it is is far from the dubai and located in the desert area .

According to article in http://www.ameinfo.com/217185.html, Salwan Property Management is appointed for property management but their site always return with error messages: 
http://www.salwan.ae/Eng/Error/Error.aspx

Cheers


----------



## peacesells

VAG said:


> These could be rental prices and definitely not selling prices.


They are indeed rental prices and indeed a bit too high IMO unless it's some crazy deal with a monthly payment and two months free or something like that.


----------



## True Blue

^^So this is completed "stock" that they can't sell at profit so they are trying to rent.


----------



## dubaiprojects

True Blue said:


> ^^So this is completed "stock" that they can't sell at profit so they are trying to rent.


Most likely completed and why there is no thread of it under skyscrapercity?
Still I would like to see the pictures of the project if available on net?


----------



## dirtyharry1

Dubailand? Cancelled. 

Who wants to live in the remote desert? What kind of an idiot you must be to buy or rent something there?


----------



## smussuw

^^ The same idiots who bought in Arabian Raunches :cheers:


----------



## Philippa C

dubaiprojects said:


> Most likely completed and why there is no thread of it under skyscrapercity?
> Still I would like to see the pictures of the project if available on net?


I'm pretty sure they are the Al Waha villas at the interchange of the Dubai Bypass Rd and Al Qudra Rd. They are nice villas but will get an awful lot of rd noise. I understand that a lot of pilots are living there and while some were sold, others were kept by Dubai Properties with the intention of renting them out. FWIW, a lot of people I know think the villas are cheap at 170K for a 4 bed! It's not far out with the AR interchange.


----------



## noir-dresses

CNN just said Dubai's stock market rose 7 percent today, and Emaar's stock rose like a Dubai skyscraper 15 percent.


----------



## dubaiprojects

Philippa C said:


> I'm pretty sure they are the Al Waha villas at the interchange of the Dubai Bypass Rd and Al Qudra Rd. They are nice villas but will get an awful lot of rd noise. I understand that a lot of pilots are living there and while some were sold, others were kept by Dubai Properties with the intention of renting them out. FWIW, a lot of people I know think the villas are cheap at 170K for a 4 bed! It's not far out with the AR interchange.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=898674


----------



## Imre

Philippa C said:


> I'm pretty sure they are the Al Waha villas at the interchange of the Dubai Bypass Rd and Al Qudra Rd. They are nice villas but will get an awful lot of rd noise. I understand that a lot of pilots are living there and while some were sold, others were kept by Dubai Properties with the intention of renting them out. FWIW, a lot of people I know think the villas are cheap at 170K for a 4 bed! It's not far out with the AR interchange.


Yes, I think the same ,few thousand villas in that area this is the first phase, location is not too bad, in the middle of the nothing but the traffic still better from there than from Sharjah, Deira and some part of Bur Dubai thats why people will like it.


----------



## iownyou

noir-dresses said:


> CNN just said Dubai's stock market rose 7 percent today, and Emaar's stock rose like a Dubai skyscraper 15 percent.


is all a big game as i said long long time ago
i said they play with peoples minds
real estate is always a solid investment but a long term one.
10+ years at 10% anual rental yield
stock market is for the very very rich people not people with under 1 million dollars
why?
because a stcok goes up and down +1% -1% in a day 10,000 up 10,000 down this way if every day you can make an averege of 10,000 then this is really good money you can take the 10,000 out everyday and keep it in the bank and save and buy property every month or you can re invested back in the stock but other wise if your going to buy a stock and leave your money there you will make very litle or nothing i dont trust stocks is a big gamble they all play games


----------



## Imre

iownyou said:


> is all a big game as i said long long time ago
> i said they play with peoples minds
> real estate is always a solid investment but a long term one.
> 10+ years at 10% anual rental yield
> stock market is for the very very rich people not people with under 1 million dollars
> why?
> because a stcok goes up and down +1% -1% in a day 10,000 up 10,000 down this way if every day you can make an averege of 10,000 then this is really good money you can take the 10,000 out everyday and keep it in the bank and save and buy property every month or you can re invested back in the stock but other wise if your going to buy a stock and leave your money there you will make very litle or nothing i dont trust stocks is a big gamble they all play games


The 10 % rental income is not too easy ,depends on when did you invest, if on the top, the rental income is just around 5 % or even less.


----------



## gerald.d

Just a thought, but as I look around and chat to people about options for places to rent next year, it's becoming pretty obvious that many landlords are now not covering their mortgage and maintenance payments with the rent cheques.

A few seem to think that they can just ride it out and wait for the market to pick up again.

But surely, unless something radically changes with regards rent caps in future years, they're basically screwed for life, aren't they?


----------



## 234sale

gerald.d said:


> Just a thought, but as I look around and chat to people about options for places to rent next year, it's becoming pretty obvious that many landlords are now not covering their mortgage and maintenance payments with the rent cheques.
> 
> A few seem to think that they can just ride it out and wait for the market to pick up again.
> 
> But surely, unless something radically changes with regards rent caps in future years, they're basically screwed for life, aren't they?


My landlords mortgage is 170k, I pay 110K... he also has not been paying the service charge..

G, Emaar have at least 200 units in BD district. Let those landlords wait:lol:

Executive towers at least 500 units with DP..


----------



## 234sale

DOWNTOWN - BURJ VIEWS - PODIUM LEVEL 2 B/R APARTMENT
Price: AED 120,000 /yr
Bedrooms: 2
Bathrooms: 3
Size: 1363.00 SqFt
Rent is paid: Bi-Yearly
Agency fees: 6000
Listed by: Agent

120K for 2 checks 
125K for 4 Checks 
130K for 6 Checks 
135K for 8 checks

Why buy when renting is so much cheaper, Service charge at 25aed = 34K.. So net income 85K for the landlord.

Borrowing a million dihrams cost approx the same. That two bed would be marketed at 2Million..


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> My landlords mortgage is 170k, I pay 110K... he also has not been paying the service charge..
> 
> G, Emaar have at least 200 units in BD district. Let those landlords wait:lol:
> 
> Executive towers at least 500 units with DP..


This is storing up huge problems for landlords in the future IMO, and I reckon in a year or so, there'll be a glut of apartments beings sold at very distressed prices indeed. We ain't seen nothing yet.

How many of these landlords do you think appreciate that even if the market recovers, they'll be stuck with rents significantly below their costs for many years to come if their tenant decides to stay put?

There are plenty of people living in older villas in Jumeirah who are probably paying around 1/3 to 1/2 true market rent (even at today's prices). For their landlords, it's probably not much of a problem considering what the cost for the land (if at all) and build was 5-10 years back.

But for those who have bought from, what - about early 2007 onwards - and rely on rental income to cover their mortgage and maintenance fees? Totally fucked.

Remember - 75% by value of HSBC mortgages in Dubai were handed out post January 2008...


----------



## Philippa C

Yes, it's going to be a big problem exacerbated by the unreasonable service fees. In Australia banks work on a net rental return of 85% of rent. The 15% covers property management fee (to rent and check on the property), city council rates and body corp fees (the equivalent of service fees). The body corp fees cover day to day maintenance as well as a sinking fund for major renovations like repainting the whole building. I doubt there is a sinking fund here - pretty ironic given the blurb about the Palm sinking!


----------



## TerryPop

*accountability*

There are few things more chilling then a grown man screaming with fear and begging for mercy.

The torture video is back in the press, and the good news it is being dealt with properly.

The sheikh is in court and facing charges, which I think he will be prosecuted on.

What is going on in the Emirates as a whole may be the best thing for it- as it matures and embraces Accountability & transparency.

link to article http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9c48695a-e5f5-11de-b5d7-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1


----------



## shagdash

gerald.d said:


> This is storing up huge problems for landlords in the future IMO, and I reckon in a year or so, there'll be a glut of apartments beings sold at very distressed prices indeed. We ain't seen nothing yet.
> 
> How many of these landlords do you think appreciate that even if the market recovers, they'll be stuck with rents significantly below their costs for many years to come if their tenant decides to stay put?
> 
> There are plenty of people living in older villas in Jumeirah who are probably paying around 1/3 to 1/2 true market rent (even at today's prices). For their landlords, it's probably not much of a problem considering what the cost for the land (if at all) and build was 5-10 years back.
> 
> But for those who have bought from, what - about early 2007 onwards - and rely on rental income to cover their mortgage and maintenance fees? Totally fucked.
> 
> Remember - 75% by value of HSBC mortgages in Dubai were handed out post January 2008...


Saw rental ads for Executive Towers 3 bed for 130k.
Seen JBR 3 beds also for 130k rent.
Springs Type 3 villas renting for not more than 130k.
Service charges for JBR and I assume Executive Towers arnd 30k per annum.
Net Rental is therefore 100k.
Even today asking prices for these apts and villas are in the 2 mil range.
Assuming one takes a 75% mortgage (which is the max banks are willing to lend now in any case), the mortgage payment itself works out to 135,000 per annum (assuming a 7500 payment per million per month).
Hence the owner is abt 35k per annum out of pocket today. Will only get worse coz even the most optimistic of brokers will admit that rents are dropping everyday.
Will only be worse for people who bought at the peak.

Can't wait for my lease to be up so I can get a nice 3 bed for 100k.


----------



## True Blue

234sale said:


> My landlords mortgage is 170k, I pay 110K... *he also has not been paying the service charge..*
> G, Emaar have at least 200 units in BD district. Let those landlords wait:lol:
> 
> Executive towers at least 500 units with DP..


The authorities are trying to get landlord and tenants to register their tenancy agreements. I think they will order tenants to pay "all the charges associated with the property" and if maintenance is not part of the agreement then they will be allowed to deduct the cost from any monies due to the landlord.

Where service charges have not been paid on a property the manager should have the power to apply to DEWA to get the power and water cut off. Something like this will have to come or anarchy will prevail.


----------



## bizzybonita

Imre said:


> I think this is good news for the Business Bay ,its still going on


i don't know what's the main goal of Business Bay Project once Dubai have not made anything to world wide ? God bless mobile offices :lol:


----------



## bizzybonita

BTW by 2010-2011 a major relastic correction will be on real estate prices... otherwise ajman , umm aqween and RAK projects will remain for nothing ! and yes RERA should be everywhere !


----------



## High Times

bizzybonita said:


> i don't know what's the main goal of Business Bay Project


Business Bay will be the second biggest failure in Dubai.


----------



## Imre

High Times said:


> Business Bay will be the second biggest failure in Dubai.


What is the first one ?

Residential still ok there because of the location but who needs offices now?

Yesterday I saw the GN , SZR offices for 99 dhs/sqft/year, TECOM area and JLT empty offices ,etc..


----------



## social

peacesells said:


> Firstly, you are wrong about 'real skin in the game' bit. While in many countries this was practiced by some developers, it was far from norm. As an example, in some European countries (like Czech Republic) it was illegal to sell off-plan. But it was not illegal to sign a commercial agreement between two parties where the buyer would hand over the money and promise to sign an SPA once the property is finished. Ask our Moscow friend here - hardly anyone in Russia sold once finished, most of property was sold off-plan. Same thing in the States - depending on where you were, you only needed to have the title to the land and some projects (mostly villas) were sold 100% up-front before construction even began.
> 
> Secondly, I do not agree that a law should mandate when a property developer is allowed to sell - this should be between the developer and the seller. Apart from the fact that it is virtually impossible to outlaw (see Czech example), it restricts the market to few large players who will be forced to charge high rates due to the high cost of capital. I do however agree that there should be an escrow account that prevents funds being mis-used. In fact, the current law is very, how shall I say, 'flexible' and allows a certain level of misapproapriation.


I wasnt talking about off plan sales (that happens in most places), I was referring to the practice of issuing installment contracts where the buyer is obligated to pay money into the developers account on a regular basis irrespective of whether any work has been done. That is extremely rare and, as we've seen, open to abuse


----------



## High Times

Imre said:


> Residential still ok there because of the location but who needs offices now?
> 
> Yesterday I saw the GN , SZR offices for 99 dhs/sqft/year, TECOM area and JLT empty offices ,etc..


I just wonder who/why would anyone want to live there in residential if it will look like a sandpit for the next 10 years, especially as more alternative projects start to look complete - JLT, Marina etc.

The main casualties from the latest PR disaster is that BIG business will steer well clear of Dubai. No right minded CEO in the world would put his organisation at risk by re-locating to Dubai as there are no regulatory processes in place. Things can change overnight, without reason or debate. In the real world you cant deal with that.

I talk to business leaders at board level in my day job and i ask all of them what their take is on Dubai and they all laugh and say "steer clear".

Even institutional Property fund managers dont like it and are actively avioding the market. To put it into some kind of perspective Commercial property fund managers would rather invest in Brazil than Dubai.




Imre said:


> What is the first one ?


Dubailand unfortunately.

This was one of the main reasons I bought in Dubai as I thought it would act as a regional magnet, not only for the Arab world but the wider Asian tourist market too. Asia needs a Floridian style entertanment hub and Dubailand would have nailed it. 

Unfortunately they got greedy and and started selling more residential projects instead of concentrating on the cash cow.

Tourism is the only thing that can salvage some kind of reputation for Dubai to trade on in my opinion. If i were the decision maker I would run with tourism. It was the main key driver before the gold rush, it started with all the Jumeriah hotels, Palm J was driven by tourism.

Lots of white sand, warm aqua sea, 12 months of sunshine, very little rain. 

It's not rocket science.


----------



## 234sale

2nd Biggest..?

Waterfront
Jumeriah Village
Dubailand

are bigger by landsize and FAR.

Similar size
Lagoons..?

The number of failed projects in these projects eclipse Business Bay also..

Jumeriah Garden City and Mohammed Bin Rashid gardens, which will not go ahead are also far bigger..


----------



## agod

I hope I haven't just witnessed a tragedy, but I was watching the power boat racing, when the Victory one boat flipped, and they couldn't get the crew out, I saw them performing CPR, on both of them, and it didd'nt look good. let's pray they are safe, anyone with more knowledge of it, please let us know.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread.

Alan


----------



## Richard Head

gerald.d said:


> This is storing up huge problems for landlords in the future IMO, and I reckon in a year or so, there'll be a glut of apartments beings sold at very distressed prices indeed. We ain't seen nothing yet.
> 
> How many of these landlords do you think appreciate that even if the market recovers, they'll be stuck with rents significantly below their costs for many years to come if their tenant decides to stay put?
> 
> There are plenty of people living in older villas in Jumeirah who are probably paying around 1/3 to 1/2 true market rent (even at today's prices). For their landlords, it's probably not much of a problem considering what the cost for the land (if at all) and build was 5-10 years back.
> 
> But for those who have bought from, what - about early 2007 onwards - and rely on rental income to cover their mortgage and maintenance fees? Totally fucked.
> 
> Remember - 75% by value of HSBC mortgages in Dubai were handed out post January 2008...


Do people really expect to own a house, rent it out and cover all costs? I'm not sure that having only 60 - 70% of the costs covered is a huge issue for most landlords. I'm lucky that my 2 properties do that because I bought early enough, but even if I had to contribute, the capital value I would have after 15 years when the mortgage is paid (regardless of whether that capital value had appreciated in real terms) would be sufficient to justify my original investment.


----------



## Imre

High Times said:


> I just wonder who/why would anyone want to live there in residential if it will look like a sandpit for the next 10 years, especially as more alternative projects start to look complete - JLT, Marina etc.


People living in the middle of the nothing just have a look the projects close to the Emirates Road or Al Khail Road.
Sand or not, BB still better than the International City,Jumeirah Village etc..

Main roads already done at the Business Bay , bridges U/C but I think it will be downsized because the DP will not sell any plots in the future.

Forget the original masterplan , that will be just a dream for a long.


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> 2nd Biggest..?
> 
> Waterfront
> Jumeriah Village
> Dubailand
> 
> are bigger by landsize and FAR.
> 
> Similar size
> Lagoons..?
> 
> The number of failed projects in these projects eclipse Business Bay also..
> 
> Jumeriah Garden City and Mohammed Bin Rashid gardens, which will not go ahead are also far bigger..


I was thinking in terms of overall importance to Dubai and it's kudos rather than in pure sqf anaysis of the developments in question.

I think you yourself actually said that "Business Bay would be seen as the City Center of Dubai". Dubailand was supposedly marketed as the largest tourism project in Asia.

The other developments you mention are precisely just that "other developments", with the exception of Waterfront, Palm JA, however these developments are not as prominent in terms of presence within the developed areas of Dubai.

Business Bay due to it's close proximity to Burj Dubai will unfortunately be an eyesore and constant reminder to the world of the excess and uncontrolled development plans that Dubai allowed to escalate out of all proportion. I agree that there will be many little ghost towns left in Dubai but in my view Business Bay and Dubailand will be the most significant in terms of status of failure.

If you are looking for holes in my arguement then I would concede that "The World Islands" would rank above Business Bay in terms of it's failure and overall standing in the scheme of things, but again it is relatively isolated offshore and therefore not part of the ever witnessed downtown area.


----------



## dubaimat

*Goldman on Dubai "Dubai Doubts & Implications on Finance" | zero hedge*

Goldman on Dubai (12/01/2009) "Dubai Doubts & Implications on Finance" (1:03 hours).

Some hightlights:

"Unfortunately we don't have very much data... unfortunately we don't even know how much outstanding debt Dubai has...."

"We don't have official GDP numbers...."

"...this suggests that Dubai's outstanding liabilities may be close to 200% of GDP...."

"...the underlying fiscal position is structurally unsustainable...."

h/t: Hedged In

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/Dubai Doubts & Implications on Finan 1.mp3


----------



## Imre

agod said:


> I hope I haven't just witnessed a tragedy, but I was watching the power boat racing, when the Victory one boat flipped, and they couldn't get the crew out, I saw them performing CPR, on both of them, and it didd'nt look good. let's pray they are safe, anyone with more knowledge of it, please let us know.
> 
> Sorry to hi-jack the thread.
> 
> Alan


This is even worst news:

*Emiri Court of Ras Al Khaimah mourns the death of Shaikh Sultan Bin Saqr Bin Mohammad Al Qasimi*

Emiri Court of Ras Al Khaimah has announced Seven-day mourning 

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/e...ltan-bin-saqr-bin-mohammad-al-qasimi-1.552066


----------



## cayman1

BB 1ST phase will be good place in my opinion near DIFC, BD ecc.


----------



## gerald.d

agod said:


> I hope I haven't just witnessed a tragedy, but I was watching the power boat racing, when the Victory one boat flipped, and they couldn't get the crew out, I saw them performing CPR, on both of them, and it didd'nt look good. let's pray they are safe, anyone with more knowledge of it, please let us know.
> 
> Sorry to hi-jack the thread.
> 
> Alan


http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091211/NATIONAL/912119984/1042/rss



> Two competitors have been rushed to hospital after a high speed powerboat crash at the Dubai Grand Prix, organisers confirmed.
> 
> The Victory 1 boat, part of the Victory Team, crashed shortly after the 3.30 pm race began, said Sharon Allison, spokeswoman for the Dubai International Marine Club, which organised the race.
> 
> The team’s website names Mohammed al Mehairi, an Emirati, as the Victory 1 driver and a French national, Jean-Marc Sanchez, as the throttleman.
> 
> Ms Allison said: “There’s been a crash but we don’t know the details at the moment. The team have been taken to hospital. We don’t know if there are any fatalities yet.”
> 
> The race forms part of the World Powerboat Championship.
> 
> In 1995 a driver for the Victory team, Hamed Buhaleeba, died when his catamaran somersaulted and landed upside down during the World Championships at Cowes, in England. Mr Buhaleeba, who had won 25 powerboating titles in five years, was one of the UAE's most successful sportsmen.
> 
> Formula One powerboats can travel at speeds up to 240 km per hour.
> 
> Sheikh Hamdan bin Mohammed, the Crown Prince of Dubai, is chairman of the Victory Team.


----------



## Imre

^^ sad news

*Two Victory Team powerboat drivers die in Dubai race mishap*

Dubai: Victory Team powerboat drivers Mohammad Al Muhairi and Jean-Marc Sanchez have tragically died following a high speed crash at Mina Seyahi on Friday.

http://gulfnews.com/two-victory-team-powerboat-drivers-die-in-dubai-race-mishap-1.552172


----------



## gerald.d

Some tweets from Tom Peters (@tom_peters):



> BusinessWeek has a cover story on Dubai. I heartily agree with the premise: Do not write off Dubai! It is still "the miracle in the desert."





> I have called Dubai "the greatest single act of business imagination I've ever seen." I stand by the quote.


:cheers:


----------



## Mistermark

Richard Head said:


> Do people really expect to own a house, rent it out and cover all costs? I'm not sure that having only 60 - 70% of the costs covered is a huge issue for most landlords. I'm lucky that my 2 properties do that because I bought early enough, but even if I had to contribute, the capital value I would have after 15 years when the mortgage is paid (regardless of whether that capital value had appreciated in real terms) would be sufficient to justify my original investment.


Yes, I do. Definitely. The alternative strategy almost always leads to big capital losses because it is based on the hope that a 'greater fool' (no offence intended) will pay you more for the property than the already-inflated price you paid. This may work for a while, but it never works forever, as it results in a bubble - and all bubbles burst eventually.

The fundamental value of a property, share or other yield-generating asset is a function of the free cashflows it generates (rent, dividends) and the long-term average cost of the capital needed to acquire it. 

In the case of UK residential property I'd put the cost of capital at seven percent. If a property generates more than seven percent of its purchase price in net annual rent (after allowing for void periods, agent's fees, service charges, ground rent, maintenance etc) it's undervalued; otherwise, it's overvalued, in the sense that it will not pay its way for a landlord, and an owner-occupier could rent instead more cost-effectively.

There have been times when it has been possible to buy a UK BTL on a high LTV mortgage, rent it out for less than the monthly instalments, then sell it after a year or two for more than it cost originally plus the interim shortfalls. But then consider the position of the person who buys it from you - they would have to subsidise the rent even more than you did, or if owner-occupiers, would be paying an even greater premium compared to renting. For what - the expectation that someone would buy it off them for more still? As you can see, that way madness lies.

I appreciate that the UK market did not drop as far as I expected this year, due to the low interest-rate environment and a deliberate anti-repossession policy by the banks, ultimately led by the Government. But I still think UK property is overvalued and wonder whether rising interest rates in late 2010/early 2011, coupled with higher unemployment (the overhang from the recession) and possibly sovereign debt defaults (not Dubai, funnily enough, but Greece and some former Comecon countries) could lead to prices falling to, or below, the long-run average ratio to incomes and cash generation.


----------



## bizzybonita

Hotel to Dubai 282 million sale of two million


Sale of a luxury hotel owned by Dubai World in an auction cheap Tuesday after the debt crisis worsening.

In 2006, the financial arm of Dubai World's purchase of the Hotel W Hotel Union Square in Manhattan, New York, $ 282 million and the sale of two million dollars at auction after booking it.

The Wall Street Journal said the auction, which took place in a law firm just two miles from the hotel stands an indication of the extent that landed the institution of the global investment arm of Dubai World after it has invested up to 20 billion dollars in property in various parts of the world during the height of the high Real estate prices in the years 2006 and 2007.

The W Hotel is the first President of Dubai World, which it reserves since the bursting of the credit crunch last month. The hotel, which has long suffered Snorkel inmates from the recession with a drop of the number of inmates and burdened by debt.

In October last the hotel fails to pay the $ 117 million.

The Family Foundation Mezzanine EMC, which bought the hotel is one of three institutions that bought the debt, despite the stagnation of the hotel industry still consider the recent optimistic for the future.

The investment paid $ 50 million in cash and borrowed $ 232 million to buy a stake of 90% in the hotel in October 2006.

In June last acquired the investment share of the remaining UPS AG in the amount of four millions of dollars.

http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D1950E37-19E8-4D96-AFF5-052E6F984D6E.htm

*some famous channel (inside Qatar) for news want finished of Dubai good economic by press like this !* 

*shame on them !*

I'll tell him one more thing First World countries are mired in debt, such as gas mired at sea ...


----------



## speculator

High Times said:


> No right minded CEO in the world would put his organisation at risk by re-locating to Dubai as there are no regulatory processes in place.
> 
> I talk to business leaders at board level in my day job and i ask all of them what their take is on Dubai and they all laugh and say "steer clear".
> 
> Even institutional Property fund managers dont like it and are actively avioding the market. To put it into some kind of perspective Commercial property fund managers would rather invest in Brazil than Dubai.
> 
> 
> Tourism is the only thing that can salvage some kind of reputation for Dubai to trade on in my opinion.


*1* Some of the worlds leading CEO's have made the decision to relocate to the ME especially Dubai. The lack of regulatory processes is nothing new and this hasn't stopped big business relocating before. I think the real issue is more a lack of transparency rather than a lack of regulatory processes.

*2* Depends which CEO's you speak to. My experience has been similar in that I have come across a lot of talented and well informed professionals who haven't got a clue about Dubai. Common remarks being : " can you get alcohol there " or " what language do they speak " or " dont they chop your hands off ". Honestly I find the west still vastly ignorant of Islamic/ Arab states.

*3 *I am not aware of any institutional fund that invests in commercial or residential in frontier economies. Brazil is a major emerging market economy and UAE is a frontier economy. You are comparing chalk & cheese. I dont believe for a minute Dubai has been avoided for the obvious but rather circumstance. After all; fund managers are often wrong with the recent past as evidence of this. Most haven't even manged to outperform the major indices.

*4* Have to agree with you on tourism. They have nothing else to fall back on.


----------



## 234sale

powerboat racing is the most dangerous, challenging and addictive sport.
rip victory team....


----------



## bizzybonita

*for the heater of dubai check this out !*

*Country Comparison :: Debt - external * 

This entry gives the total public and private debt owed to nonresidents repayable in foreign currency, goods, or services. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html


----------



## dubaimat

bizzybonita said:


> *Country Comparison :: Debt - external *
> 
> This entry gives the total public and private debt owed to nonresidents repayable in foreign currency, goods, or services. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.
> 
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html


so what? What is missing on this chart is that you have to compare those debt figures to each countries GDP, that is where the UAE looks bad as bad can be hno:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)


----------



## Freestyler

Luxembourg debt is $ 2,020,000,000,000 and GDP is $ 54,973,000,000.


----------



## True Blue

^^They need to cut up all their credit cards:lol:

how does such a small country get into such debt without building palm shaped islands in the sea:dunno:


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*Repayment hopes boost Nahkeel bond*

Dubai's Nakheel bond rose on Friday while the cost of insuring the emirate's debt eased, three days before the $3.5bn issue matures, as speculation grew the bond might be repaid on time.

The Islamic bond issued by Nakheel, a property arm of state-owned Dubai World, matures on December 14 and is now trading around 52 cents to the dollar after falling as low as 40 last week, according to Reuters data.

One analyst said the bond had changed hands as high as 56 cents to the dollar late on Thursday.

The bond - known as a sukuk - had been trading around 110 before the Dubai government shocked investors on November 25 by announcing a six-month standstill on the debt of two of its flagship corporates.

Fund managers said the bond - a litmus test for Dubai World's planned $26bn restructuring - has been rising since Thursday on speculation the firm might repay its debt in time, Hedge funds have also been buying the bond as a distressed asset.

"I think there is a 50/50 chance it will be paid," a European fund manager said, adding it was still uncertain that the current price reflected a realistic recovery rate.

Nakheel will be in a technical default if the firm fails to pay before the two-week grace period ends on December 28.

"It's a bet on what Dubai World is going to do - it's more like tossing a coin than making an investment," a European banker said.

Reflecting the hopes, five-year credit default swaps for Dubai fell over 30 basis points to 533, according to CDS monitor CMA DataVision, compared with a peak of almost 700 bps at the end of November.

This means it costs $533,000 to insure $10m worth of Dubai debt over a five-year period.

The level is still high given the CDS was quoted at around 300 bps before the announcement.

CDS on ports operator DP World - part of Dubai World whose assets were ringfenced from the restructuring - tightened 46 basis points to 554.2 bps.

But many were sceptical.

"I cant think of a single logical reason for them to repay on Monday. The damage has already been done. All the official statements have said they intend to restructure. Anything else is a rumour," said one credit analyst.

"If you do a recovery analysis, you don't get a high valuation but ultimately (the recovery value) will be a function of how much the Dubai authorities are prepared to pay to avoid further damage to its reputation as a trade and financial centre," the analyst added.

The European banker said a total of around $4bn falls due on Monday. This includes the redemption amount, half the coupon payments and an extra 2 points paid by the company for each year that it did not have an initial public offering, putting the redemption value of the bond at 115.

Holders of the bond have been negotiating with Nakheel but no meaningful progress has been made.

Industry sources said UK banks - HSBC, Standard Chartered, Lloyds Banking Group and Royal Bank of Scotland - have yet to reach on a deal.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/575850-repayment-hopes-boost-nahkeel-bond


----------



## basheer.mohammad

*Gulfnews*

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...ated-community-with-mixed-facilities-1.552285

Read through the last lines

Other residential communities in the development include Canal Residence West which, situated along the canal promenade, will be complete in September 2010.

So all March April talk seems to shift now to september


----------



## moscowboy

...


----------



## dubaimat

bizzybonita said:


> *Country Comparison :: Debt - external *
> 
> This entry gives the total public and private debt owed to nonresidents repayable in foreign currency, goods, or services. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.
> 
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html





dubaimat said:


> so what? What is missing on this chart is that you have to compare those debt figures to each countries GDP, that is where the UAE looks bad as bad can be hno:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)


*UAE cbank to build currency printing unit in Abu Dhabi*
by Reuters
Saturday, 12 December 2009

The UAE central bank said on Saturday it plans to build a currency printing unit in Abu Dhabi.

The plant will have capacity for expansion to undertake orders from countries in the region, a statement from the central bank said.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/575888-uae-central-bank-to-build-currency-printing-unit-in-abu-dhabi

It seems to me that it is about time that they start printing...:cheers:


----------



## Mistermark

Does anyone have a definitive and up-to-date list (a lot has changed since December 2008) of countries' debts as a proportion of GDP?


----------



## dubaimat

Mistermark said:


> Does anyone have a definitive and up-to-date list (a lot has changed since December 2008) of countries' debts as a proportion of GDP?


much more detailed data available at the World Bank

http://www.jedh.org/jedh_creditor.html


----------



## Ali_Syed

oh well... couple more months wait wont hurt much!


----------



## speculator

Wannaberich said:


> This is a post taken from another website.It is just another example of the many many thousands of investors/end users who have been ripped off by the many many crooked developers which infested Dubai some of which are owned by the goverment.
> When I read posts like this,even though I have money invested in Dubai it makes me wish the place burnt to the ground.Its a total fucking scandal.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I went to Dubai in Feb 2008 to complete on a property I sold.
> This was the first time I had been, and was quite surprised at how nice Dubai was and how safe I felt.
> 
> On this basis I invested in 2 other projects 1. Eagle Heights and 2. The Cube.
> 
> I was looking for some advice from yourself if possible or from anyone else that maybe able to help.
> 
> The Eagle heights project hasn't got off the ground and I can't get in contact with the developers. I've emailed RERa numerous times with no responce.
> The money is supposed to be in an Escrow account - I've again emailed the Dubai Islamic Bank and again, I haven't had any responce.
> 
> I paid a lawyer to do an investigation on my behalf to see the best way forward.
> All they could advise was to go through the courts at an estimated expence of 230,000 dhr - equivalent to £39,000. With no guarantee of getting any money back.
> 
> I thought an Escrow account was there to protect the buyer if circumstances like this occur. But it appears that unless you have got tens of thousands of pounds to gamble on getting your money back. There's nothing you can do about it.
> 
> I would be very grateful if anyone knows of anything that I can do to try and recoup some of my money back.


How much have you paid as a percentage. Doesn't this so called 70/30 rule apply. ? Maybe you need to look into that. 

Sorry to hear about your demise. If it makes you feel better I think most have been or are in similar situation including me.


----------



## dubaimat

Wannaberich said:


> *This is a post taken from another website*.It is just another example of the many many thousands of investors/end users who have been ripped off by the many many crooked developers which infested Dubai some of which are owned by the goverment.
> When I read posts like this,even though I have money invested in Dubai it makes me wish the place burnt to the ground.Its a total fucking scandal.


I fully agree with you



speculator said:


> How much have you paid as a percentage. Doesn't this so called 70/30 rule apply. ? Maybe you need to look into that.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your demise. If it makes you feel better I think most have been or are in similar situation including me.


before offering condolences, he was quoting someone else's post :bash:


----------



## paul66

Mistermark said:


> Does anyone have a definitive and up-to-date list (a lot has changed since December 2008) of countries' debts as a proportion of GDP?


Best reliable source of info and up to date:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

After selecting the country you can view where the country ranks compared to other countries.

UAE looks very good and promising in almost all categories. :banana:


----------



## Naz UK

That's correct, the CIA is the best source of all information.

There is a theory somewhere that states the more assasinations you carry out, the greater the reliability of your demographical statistics gets.


----------



## Imre

moscowboy said:


> America is the only country in the world where you can buy big beautiful homes with four bedrooms and swimming pool for $1 on auction.


For 1 USD only, which area?

I would invest 10 USD in America now, can you help me? :lol:


----------



## dubaimat

*Dubai owes Japanese firms about $7.5 bln*

Dubai owes Japanese firms about $7.5 bln 
Dec 12, 2009 at 04:13 

TOKYO - Japanese nonfinancial companies had around $7.5 billion, or roughly Y660 billion, in accounts receivable owed by the Dubai government and its affiliated firms as of Oct. 31, according to the Japanese government, The Nikkei reported in its Saturday morning edition.

The data, which excludes bank loans, was derived from 18 projects totaling nearly $15 billion involving such Japanese firms as general contractors, trading houses and electric machinery manufacturers. The figures include public works projects commissioned by the Dubai government, such as subway and road construction.

About $1 billion of the accounts receivable have gone unpaid past their due dates, with some more than a year overdue. In certain cases, factors such as disagreements between Japanese firms and their clients about who should shoulder cost overruns due to design modifications have contributed to the unpaid claims.

For instance, a Dubai Metro project that started out at $3.6 billion has since seen overall expenses balloon to $10 billion. Of this, Dubai's Road & Transport Authority is said to be disputing its responsibility for $4.3 billion.

Such cases where Dubai clients have indicated they will not pay for additional work total $5.3 billion.

While the Japanese firms expect to be able to recover some of the accounts receivable depending on how negotiations proceed, Dubai's credit concerns have grown widespread owing to financial woes at Dubai World, a corporate conglomerate affiliated with the government of Dubai. This means that some Japanese companies could end up sustaining losses because they are unable to collect.

http://business.maktoob.com/20090000406426/Dubai_owes_Japanese_firms_about_$7_5_bln/Article.htm


----------



## jagmp

Imre said:


> For 1 USD only, which area?
> 
> I would invest 10 USD in America now, can you help me? :lol:


yes i had seen the documentry long time ago on channel 4 or BBC2..it showed the deserted streets in many parts of Florida i think also Detroit where home owners left because they could not pay the mortgage.those streets were occupied by criminals and drug dealers.No one would dare to enter those areas.In some of the areas streets after streets were completely deserted.I really can't recollect names of the towns.But it is true those homes were not selling at 1 USD. :bash:Atleast thats what the journalist said.


----------



## TerryPop

Dubaiiscool:) said:


> Dubai's Nakheel bond rose on Friday while the cost of insuring the emirate's debt eased, three days before the $3.5bn issue matures, as speculation grew the bond might be repaid on time.
> 
> The Islamic bond issued by Nakheel, a property arm of state-owned Dubai World, matures on December 14 and is now trading around 52 cents to the dollar after falling as low as 40 last week, according to Reuters data.
> 
> One analyst said the bond had changed hands as high as 56 cents to the dollar late on Thursday.
> 
> The bond - known as a sukuk - had been trading around 110 before the Dubai government shocked investors on November 25 by announcing a six-month standstill on the debt of two of its flagship corporates.
> 
> Fund managers said the bond - a litmus test for Dubai World's planned $26bn restructuring - has been rising since Thursday on speculation the firm might repay its debt in time, Hedge funds have also been buying the bond as a distressed asset.
> 
> "I think there is a 50/50 chance it will be paid," a European fund manager said, adding it was still uncertain that the current price reflected a realistic recovery rate.
> 
> Nakheel will be in a technical default if the firm fails to pay before the two-week grace period ends on December 28.
> 
> "It's a bet on what Dubai World is going to do - it's more like tossing a coin than making an investment," a European banker said.
> 
> Reflecting the hopes, five-year credit default swaps for Dubai fell over 30 basis points to 533, according to CDS monitor CMA DataVision, compared with a peak of almost 700 bps at the end of November.
> 
> This means it costs $533,000 to insure $10m worth of Dubai debt over a five-year period.
> 
> The level is still high given the CDS was quoted at around 300 bps before the announcement.
> 
> CDS on ports operator DP World - part of Dubai World whose assets were ringfenced from the restructuring - tightened 46 basis points to 554.2 bps.
> 
> But many were sceptical.
> 
> "I cant think of a single logical reason for them to repay on Monday. The damage has already been done. All the official statements have said they intend to restructure. Anything else is a rumour," said one credit analyst.
> 
> "If you do a recovery analysis, you don't get a high valuation but ultimately (the recovery value) will be a function of how much the Dubai authorities are prepared to pay to avoid further damage to its reputation as a trade and financial centre," the analyst added.
> 
> The European banker said a total of around $4bn falls due on Monday. This includes the redemption amount, half the coupon payments and an extra 2 points paid by the company for each year that it did not have an initial public offering, putting the redemption value of the bond at 115.
> 
> Holders of the bond have been negotiating with Nakheel but no meaningful progress has been made.
> 
> Industry sources said UK banks - HSBC, Standard Chartered, Lloyds Banking Group and Royal Bank of Scotland - have yet to reach on a deal.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/575850-repayment-hopes-boost-nahkeel-bond



I hope I am wrong... but this stinks of BS. 

Spread the rumour they're going to pay up to suck out the very last upside on the sukuk.

In penny stocks (when a company is f*cked & on its way out) they always come out with one massive rumour just before the whole thing implodes- _for the savvy to get one more chance to sell_.

Like I said I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## paul66

*Some good news for Dubai*

Some of the travel agents I know personally in the UK have seen a huge increase in holiday and flight enquiries to Dubai recently.

They say it is because of all the negative Dubai coverage in the media, and is resulting in many middle class people (who would have never even thought of going to Dubai as it was perceived as a 'Rich mans paradise') to booking holidays there.

This is great news. We should thank The Times, Daily Telegraph and all the racist British media who thought they had the last laugh but actually is going to help fast-track tourism to the country instead. Well done you c*nts - much appreciated :cheers:

Paul


----------



## speculator

dubaimat said:


> I fully agree with you
> 
> 
> 
> before offering condolences, he was quoting someone else's post :bash:


LOL:lol: I should read instead of scan.


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai woes force British groups to switch focus to Abu Dhabi*

The unfolding crisis in Dubai has led to a prominent British consultancy pulling out of the city, despite being owed £10 million by clients in the emirate, and a construction company moving staff to neighbouring Abu Dhabi.

Mouchel, the management consultancy, said yesterday that it would shut its office in Dubai and direct its efforts towards building its business in Abu Dhabi, its neighbour in the United Arab Emirates.

Carillion, the UK’s second-largest construction company, has moved 5,000 of its 20,000 Dubai staff to the neighbouring emirate in the past 18 months.

The collapse of the property bubble in Dubai has failed to dent prospects for Mouchel or for Carillion, which said yesterday that it expected profits to grow by at least 10 per cent in 2009.
Related Links

* Emaar pulls out of Dubai Holding rescue merger

* Dubai is the damp squib as other emirates celebrate

* Abu Dhabi poised to throw lifeline to Dubai

Carillion expects most of its growth in the Middle East to be in Abu Dhabi, where it has a £150 million contract to build the headquarters of the Abu Dhabi Investment Council, and from Oman, in a £250 million contract to build its parliamentary headquarters.

The group is well placed to ride the Dubai storm, with revenues from Abu Dhabi soaring from £11 million at the half-year stage in 2008 to £190 million for the same period this year.

Mouchel, which admitted in October that it was owed about £30 million by Dubai clients, said yesterday that, after some initial success in recovering its fees, there was “greater uncertainty around recovery of the remaining outstanding payments”.

It is one of a number of British companies that could lose money after Dubai’s spectacular fall from grace as its stock market plummeted over the past couple of weeks.

Dubai World, the state-backed property developer, asked to halt its huge debt repayments. It is trying to restructure a $26 billion debt. Nakheel, another developer, announced a loss of 13.43 billion dirhams (£2.25 billion) for the first half of this year and must repay a $4 billion Islamic bond on Monday.

On Wednesday, Emaar, a property company, backed out of a rescue takeover of Dubai Holding’s property businesses. Mouchel said: “In Abu Dhabi, where we had already taken steps to refocus our Middle East business, the long-term outlook is favourable and there are immediate opportunities . . . However, progress in the region remains slow.”

The company’s share price shot up 20 per cent to 191p yesterday as the market breathed a sigh of relief that it was leaving Dubai.

Mouchel added that it was on track to deliver a performance in line with expectations for the year to July 31.

Carillion, which constructs and manages rail networks, motorways, hospitals and military bases in Public Private Partnership (PPP) initiatives, has also benefited from the sale of two PPP investments worth £86.9 million. It has also disposed of an environmental consultancy business for £26.4 million. It expects to be in the black by the end of the year, after eliminating £146 million of debt since June.

“Carillion has demonstrated that it has a resilient business mix, including strong international businesses, a substantial order book, a good pipeline of contract opportunities, good cashflow and a strong balance sheet,” it said.


----------



## Mistermark

jagmp said:


> yes i had seen the documentry long time ago on channel 4 or BBC2..it showed the deserted streets in many parts of Florida i think also Detroit where home owners left because they could not pay the mortgage.those streets were occupied by criminals and drug dealers.No one would dare to enter those areas.In some of the areas streets after streets were completely deserted.I really can't recollect names of the towns.But it is true those homes were not selling at 1 USD. :bash:Atleast thats what the journalist said.


I don't believe homes are available in Florida for $1 each, but they certainly are in Detroit. However, there's a catch. Due to depopulation there are more houses than are needed in Detroit, and the ones that are priced at $1 are almost exclusively those built from vinyl, or sometimes timber, that nobody would choose while there are cheaply priced brick houses around, due to the higher maintenance costs. Also in Detroit there are property taxes (known as summer and winter tax) of about $3000 per property, and you also have to cut the grass so it's less than 6in tall, which has a cost attached to it. So it costs money to have a house stand empty - hence the reason people won't pay $1 for the worst prefabricated units.


----------



## noir-dresses

This week's market place middle east

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2009/12/11/mme.a.regional.contagion.kuwait.cnn

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2009/12/11/mme.b.bahrain.debt.cnn


----------



## noir-dresses

That buck seven five cent house was sold on ebay about a year ago, I remember it was on all the new's when the crisis was at it's worst.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/982850/


----------



## agod

I should know, I have owned 2 properties for 6 years in the US, and the wife worked at a well known american bank for 21 years, in the London branch and still couldn't get a transfer, they insiste she resigned and loe her seniority, and try and start again over there, I am English, but have to pay American taxes as well, as they give you a International Tax Number, and we still could not get a green card, the nearest visa is a EB5, which allows you to invest minimum $500,000 in some run dive like south Seattle warehouse, and you must employ 10 Americans, there are a hundred different type's of visas, most are work related, E1 and E2, and do not lead to a green card, immigration, will tell you wth delight, that there job is to keep you out, that's why I never mention I own property there, as they assume I will do a runner.

It makes my blood boil when I read what these journalist's write, as I have many friends still trying to get a green card after many years, and thousands of dollars, in Lawyers fee's, still under the threat of being chucked out at anytime.

Also when you buy in the States the closing costs are 5 or 6% of the purchase price, the Realtor takes another 7%, and the mortgage broker his cut as well, plus the taxes, the paperwork, is 2 inches thick, and they have a great way of picking your pocket, with items they forgot to mention.................stick to Dubai its much simplier, and nicer.

Alan


----------



## TerryPop

TerryPop said:


> I hope I am wrong... but this stinks of BS.
> 
> Spread the rumour they're going to pay up to suck out the very last upside on the sukuk.
> 
> In penny stocks (when a company is f*cked & on its way out) they always come out with one massive rumour just before the whole thing implodes- _for the savvy to get one more chance to sell_.
> 
> Like I said I hope I'm wrong.


http://business.maktoob.com/20090000406746/Dubai_unlikely_to_reach_deal_on_Nakheel_bond_/Article.htm

A few articles coming out now saying this won;t be paid back, it looks like a typical penny stock play

Amazingly someone was connected enough to get a newspaper to spread the rumour- I could still be wrong tho!


----------



## shagdash

^^
How come DFM is rallying then?


----------



## noir-dresses

Another good day, looking good

Dubai Index
1722.71
(+5.00%)


----------



## peacesells

shagdash said:


> ^^
> How come DFM is rallying then?


Panic >>> prices fall disregarding any fundamentals >>> panic over >>> investors see undervalued stock due to recent drop >>> rally. Simple.


----------



## Imre

I met with someone today , his friend bought an apartment in the Old Town from the Emaar last week.

It is interesting , I thougt they sold out everything there.


----------



## dubaimat

Imre said:


> I met with someone today , his friend bought an apartment in the Old Town from the Emaar last week.
> 
> It is interesting , I thougt they sold out everything there.


they have only some completely overpriced units left, whoever is buying must be suffering from Alzheimer :cheers:

this is their latest availability:



Location Code
Type
Property Type
Sales Rooms
Unit Model
Saleable Leasable Area
Terraces
Plot Area Sq Ft
Selling Price Per Sqft
Total Area
Status
Selling Price

DM W1 Aurora-P2-P204
Apartment
Sale
Studio
4
872
269
0
1197
1141
Available
1,043,888

DM W1 Aurora-P2-P205
Apartment
Sale
Studio
5
872
291
0
1199
1163
Available
1,045,888

DM W1 Aurora-P2-P206
Apartment
Sale
Studio
6
872
269
0
1197
1141
Available
1,043,888

DM X1 Beauport-P2-P201
Apartment
Sale
Studio
1
872
269
0
1197
1141
Available
1,043,888

DM X1 Beauport-P2-P202
Apartment
Sale
Studio
2
872
291
0
1199
1163
Available
1,045,888

DM X1 Beauport-P2-P203
Apartment
Sale
Studio
3
872
248
0
1194
1119
Available
1,040,888

BD SR East Podium-EP2-EP201
Apartment
Sale
Studio
1
506
172
0
1875
678
Available
948,888

BD SR East Podium-EP2-EP202
Apartment
Sale
Studio
2
538
172
0
1838
710
Available
988,888

BD SR West Podium-WP2-WP201
Apartment
Sale
Studio
1
538
172
0
1838
710
Available
988,888

BD SR West Podium-WP2-WP202
Apartment
Sale
Studio
2
506
172
0
1875
678
Available
948,888

BD E1 The Residences-EP2-EP203
Apartment
Sale
1 Bedroom
3
603
205
0
2013
807
Available
1,213,888

BD E1 The Residences-EP2-EP204
Apartment
Sale
1 Bedroom
4
592
237
0
2025
829
Available
1,198,888

BD E1 The Residences-EP2-EP205
Apartment
Sale
1 Bedroom
5
603
237
0
2023
840
Available
1,219,888

BD W1 The Residences-25-2501
Apartment
Sale
5 Bedrooms
01
4054
469
0
2401
4523
Available
9,732,888

BD W1 The Residences-WP2-WP204
Apartment
Sale
1 Bedroom
4
624
248
0
2375
872
Available
1,481,888

BD W1 The Residences-WP2-WP205
Apartment
Sale
1 Bedroom
5
603
291
0
2393
893
Available
1,442,888

BD W1 The Residences-WP2-WP206
Apartment
Sale
1 Bedroom
6
592
258
0
2383
850
Available
1,410,888

BD Res II Cent Podium-CP3-CP301
Apartment
Sale
Studio
1
377
65
0
2371
441
Available
893,888

BD Res II Cent Podium-CP3-CP302
Apartment
Sale
Studio
2
377
54
0
2008
431
Available
756,888

BD Res II Cent Podium-CP3-CP303
Apartment
Sale
1 Bedroom
3
710
129
0
1891
840
Available
1,342,888

BD Res II Villas-BV-BV01
Apartment
Sale
5 Bedrooms
1
3257
146
0
1807
3403
Available
5,884,888


----------



## Imre

dubaimat said:


> they have only some completely overpriced units left, whoever is buying must be suffering from Alzheimer :cheers:


Yes, his unit was 3.2 million , 3 bed +maid 2200 sqft but he bought credit notes for 40-50% only so not too bad


----------



## DXBQuantum

Imre said:


> I met with someone today , his friend bought an apartment in the Old Town from the Emaar last week.
> 
> It is interesting , I thougt they sold out everything there.


they still own quite a lot of their own stock..

Rent to own scheme etc...

buy backs from original purchasers


----------



## paul66

Wannaberich said:


> P.S Saw a new ad for Emirates on UK TV last night advertising the Palm Atlantis.Decent ad.


Theres all of the latest Emirates ads here and some Dubai Videos:
http://www.tigerzilla.com/properties/dubaivideos.html


----------



## dubaimat

paul66 said:


> Just remember, you won't live forever...so make the most of it!


Isn't it ironic? Obviously, you are following your own advicehno:

Welcome to TigerZilla Properties... A unique, straight-forward and easy approach to buying and selling properties in the UAE. Whether you are buying or selling a Flat, Villa, Townhouse, or a multi-million dirham property, our goal is to provide the service and information that will allow you to make the best possible decisions.

DUBAI PROPERTY INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY

Invest as little as 5,000 Dirhams and earn a MINIMUM of 8% per annum Guaranteed.

Working in conjunction with a major property developer, we will select an off plan property to purchase. Investors will be invited to purchase a share of that property in multiples of 5,000 AED. So if a property is worth 500,000 AED an investor with 25,000 AED would own 5% of the property.

The property will be sold immediately on completion and the profit generated will be distributed according to the % owned.

The greater the % owned the greater the share of the profit.

If more than 8% profit per annum is earned when the property is sold then the additional profit is also shared equally.

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Who owns the property?
The Developer will be the nominal owner of the property to facilitate the participation of individual investors. The actual owner of the property will be the investors who have participated in the scheme.

All developers participating in this scheme will need to be registered with the Dubai land Department. The Dubai Land Department controls all Real Estate activities in Dubai and ensures investors’ interests are maintained at all times.

Confirmation of the developers registration can be viewed on the Government website: www.dubairealestatecommunity.com

How long will my money be tied up?
Off plan properties are expected to be constructed over a two year period. It is possible that delays may occur but the Guaranteed minimum return would still be valid should the completion date overrun. Investors should assume their investments will last a minimum of two years and could in the event of a delay last as long as three years. We have no control over the construction process and will keep investors informed of any delays.

What if the sale of the property delivers a greater profit than the minimum guarantee?
All profits will be distributed equally between investors according to the % of the property they have purchased. Should the profit be greater than the minimum guaranteed, then the investors will receive the larger amount.

How is my Guarantee Calculated?
On receipt of the investment amount, we will issue a dated receipt and all minimum returns will calculated from this date. We will pay the 8% return annually on the anniversary of your investment, when the property is completed and sold, you will also receive the difference if the property has returned more than the 8% per annum rate.

Can I pay 5,000 Dirhams in instalments?
No, in order to minimise administration costs only one instalment can be accepted. Payment may be made by cheque, cash, bank transfer or by debit/credit card subject to a 3.5% fee.

Can I sell my investment prior to the sale of the property?
Investors will be required to participate in the scheme for a minimum of 2 years and a maximum of 3 years

Where will the money be re-paid?
We will follow any instruction outlined by the investor. Funds can be paid in any AED/GBP/USD or EUR Bank account.

What is the full price of the properties?
Most properties will be Studios or 1 Beds which are around 500,000 Dirhams - these are the prime apartments we will be investing in to keep costs low and returns high.

Can I re-invest?
We will advise investors of any schemes they can participate in on the completion of their existing scheme.

Do I have to pay income tax/capital gains on the profit?
Please consult your financial adviser. Dubai does not charge any tax on profit, however, all profits earned anywhere in the world should be declared on your tax return.

http://www.tigerzilla.com/properties/

*Now this is what I call a scam, don't you agree?*


----------



## True Blue

Mistermark said:


> I don't believe homes are available in Florida for $1 each, but they certainly are in Detroit. However, there's a catch. Due to depopulation there are more houses than are needed in Detroit, and the ones that are priced at $1 are almost exclusively those built from vinyl, or sometimes timber, that nobody would choose while there are cheaply priced brick houses around, due to the higher maintenance costs. Also in Detroit there are property taxes (known as summer and winter tax) of about $3000 per property, and you also have to cut the grass so it's less than 6in tall, which has a cost attached to it. So it costs money to have a house stand empty - hence the reason people won't pay $1 for the worst prefabricated units.


The reason you can buy a house for a $1 in Florida is because you are buying the outstanding debt secured on the property as part of the deal. If the bank was only receiving $1 for the sale of the asset then that would not even cover the paper work. Banks would level the property first before lose all this money. Keep the plot and resell to a developer in the future.

I have been told by my brother, who lives in Miami, that banks are stocking homes and refusing to sell them in an attempt to stop total collapse of the market. He tried to buy a neighbours house in foreclosure, who was jailed for embezeling, but the bank said it was being put to stock awaiting recovery of the market. Nice to know that the bailout money is being put to good use:bash:


----------



## Hanna

*D-day for Nakheel Dubai - December 28 is the final cut off point*

DUBAI (Reuters) - Heavy rain pounded Dubai on Sunday adding to the gloom of the emirate's debt woes a day before the deadline of the $3.52 billion bond by state-owned developer Nakheel, with no word on how it will be handled.

Dubai's stock market did soar for a second consecutive session on Sunday as traders reacted to a surge in Nakheel's bond price last week on mounting speculation it will repay.

The Islamic bonds, or sukuk, had been trading around 110 cents to the dollar before the government shocked investors on November 25 with a request for a six-month standstill on the debt of state-linked Dubai World.

The announcement sent the sukuk down to mid-40 lows, but closed on Friday at about 54 cents to the dollar.

Fund managers and bankers regard Monday's outcome as the litmus test for Dubai World's planned $26 billion restructuring and Dubai as a whole for resolving its debt burden.

But the odds of Nakheel, the developer of palm-shaped islands, repaying are low.

"It's very hopeful people (speculating)," says a Dubai-based fund manager. "It seems very strange that if Dubai World intended to pay they would have gone through the last two weeks of pain."

A sudden u-turn and repayment would placate disappointed and confused investors in the immediate term. Dubai's handling of the situation has tarnished its reputation.

Dubai's finance chief on Thursday tried to reassure investors saying its actions were more important than its public image. But, Dubai World has few options.

"The key thing is the lack of clarity," said Nish Popat, ING's head of fixed income in the Middle East. "What's needed more than anything else is some sort of information to understand what the plans are going forward and how they are progressing."

Reflecting rising repayment hopes, five-year credit default swaps for Dubai fell more than 30 basis points on Friday to 533 basis points, according to CDS monitor CMA DataVision, compared with a peak of almost 700 bps at the end of November.

The level is still high given the CDS was quoted at about 300 bps before the November 25 announcement.

"The CDS spreads are better, and news of a hedge fund buying into Nakheel - this is all positive ... even if you buy Nakheel at 50, and they pay out 70, you're still making good money," said a banker from a Dubai government-controlled lender.

If Nakheel does not pay on Monday, it would technically be in default, but it would still give its restructuring team a two-week grace period to reach an agreement with creditors.

December 28 is the final cut off point. After that a cross default clause in its original prospectus will be triggered that covers Nakheel and its guarantor Dubai World, adding to the overall debt burden.

Regional markets have been struggling for weeks under the issue.

"Prices are so distorted right now," said Haissam Arabi chief executive at Gulfmena Alternative Investments. "Tomorrow is a big day, until we get some clarity (about Dubai's debt) there will be no real trend. The main catalyst we are waiting for is Nakheel news."

STRIKING A DEAL

Analysts have speculated Nakheel could repay its bond at 70 cents to a dollar and issue new debt for the remainder.

"Such an outcome would be beneficial for both parties involved," EFG Hermes analyst Fahd Iqbal


----------



## Imre

*Nakheel expected to clear the air*

*Maturity of $4b Sukuk to shed light on Dubai World's debt restructuring*

December 14, 2009 

Dubai: As Nakheel's $4 billion (Dh14.6 billion) Sukuk matures on Monday, some clarity will be shed on the six-month ‘standstill' that its parent company, Dubai World, sought from creditors on November 25.

Additionally, Dubai World has also said that it wants to restructure $26 billion of the group's debts, mainly those of property developers Nakheel and Limitless.

Some reports suggest Dubai World might pay part of the debt on schedule, but it remains unclear whether an agreement has been reached between the conglomerate and its creditors.

http://gulfnews.com/business/markets/nakheel-expected-to-clear-the-air-1.553285


----------



## sameerl

Dubai receives usd 10 bln from abu dhabi; to pay off nakheel sukuk today in full


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*UAE agrees $10bn deal to help pay off Dubai World debt*

The government of Abu Dhabi and the Central Bank of the UAE has announced that it has agreed to provide $10 billion to the Dubai Financial Support Fund, allowing Dubai World to repay $4.1 billion of Islamic sukuk bonds that are due to be paid on Monday.

The announcement was made by the government of Dubai in an e-mailed statement.

Sheikh Ahmad Bin Saeed Al Maktoum, chairman of the Dubai Supreme Fiscal Committee confirmed the move by the UAE government to provide the financial support.

He said: "Like other global financial centers, Dubai has faced recent market challenges driven by the global economic slowdown and a severe real estate market correction.

"Recently, Dubai World announced that it might not be able to commercially support its obligations. Since that time, the Government of Dubai has worked closely with the Abu Dhabi Government and the UAE Central Bank in addressing and assessing the impact of Dubai World on the UAE economy, banking system and investor confidence."

He added: "Specifically, the Government of Abu Dhabi has agreed to fund $10 billion to the Dubai Financial Support Fund that will be used to satisfy a series of upcoming obligations on Dubai World.

"As a first action for the new fund, the Government of Dubai has authorised $4.1 billion to be used to pay the sukuk obligations that are due today.

"The remaining funds would also provide for interest expenses and company working capital through April 30, 2010 - conditioned on the company being successful in negotiating a standstill as previously announced. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/576060-uae-agrees-10bn-deal-to-help-pay-off-dubai-debt


----------



## gerald.d

I wonder what they're going to get in return?


----------



## gerald.d

Oh, and would I be right in assuming that anyone who bought Nakheel bonds last week has just doubled their money?


----------



## V Kapoor

*Nakheel bond paid in full*
Dubai Government has authorised the release of $4.1b which will be used to pay Nakheel’s bond which was due today.

Staff Report Published: 08:56 December 14, 2009 
Dubai Government has authorised the release of $4.1b which will be used to pay Nakheel’s bond which was due today.

A statement from Shaikh Ahmad Bin Saeed Al Maktoum, Chairman of the Dubai Supreme Fiscal Committee said: “Specifically, the Government of Abu Dhabi has agreed to fund $10 billion to the Dubai Financial Support Fund that will be used to satisfy a series of upcoming obligations on Dubai World.

“As a first action for the new fund, the Government of Dubai has authorized $4.1 billion to be used to pay the sukuk obligations that are due today.

....GN Report *Breaking News*!


----------



## V Kapoor

gerald.d said:


> Oh, and would I be right in assuming that anyone who bought Nakheel bonds last week has just doubled their money?


Yes, this is what it seems!


----------



## docc

Most definitely gerald!


----------



## social

So Dubai wasnt simply bluffing, it didnt actually have the cash

Heads should roll


----------



## Hanna

*Outlook in concrete- Dubai World `s obligations and Debts*

In response to queries, I'm revisiting an earlier post: "Reports of my debt have been greatly exaggerated," in which I posted estimates of Dubai World's real debts after its revelation that it had $59 billion in consolidated liabilities. This terrifying number sparked some to wonder if the treadworn estimates of Dubai Inc.'s $80 billion in debts might actually be higher or that Dubai World's debts may somehow account for half of the total.
The grand total for Dubai World and its units appears to be $36.49bn, of which $26bn is subject to restructuring.

Strictly speaking, no one knows for sure. Dubai and its subsidiary companies do not publish official debt tallies or debt repayment schedules. But thanks to the diligent work of analysts at EFG-Hermes, Deutsche Bank and Standard & Poor's, just to name a few, here's what we know, or at least think we know:

Dubai World has
$59.3bn in consolidated liabilities,
according to its own statements, which includes all debt and non-debt obligations at the conglomerate, its 12 subsidiaries and the 78 other units they own or control.

Of this, the group owes an estimated
$10.52bn in bonds and
$13.3bn in loans, for a total of
$23.82bn, according to Deutsche Bank.

But clearly this leaves out significant portions of the Group's overall debts, because Dubai World has announced that the restructuring will affect $26bn in debt, $20bn at Dubai World and Limitless, and $6bn at Nakheel.

Deutsche bank has been able to track down only a portion of these.
Dubai World, it estimates, owes
$5.5bn in outstanding loans
EFG-Hermes has put the loan figure at $6.7bn.

Nakheel owes
$5.23bn in bonds and
$1.85bn in loans for a total of debt of
$7.08bn.

Limitless owes
$1.2bn in loans

That only adds up to $13.78bn, leaving $12.22bn in debt unaccounted for.

If we assume that the total debts at Dubai World, Nakheel and Limitless are $26bn and add Deutsche Bank's estimates for the other Dubai World units, we come up with a total group debt of $36.49bn.

Here's a schedule of maturies for the Dubai World group debts we know about:
Dec. 14: Nakheel's $3.52bn sukuk is due, though Dubai World has said it plans to ask creditors for a six-month extension.
March 31, 2010: Limitless due to repay $1.2bn loan
May 13: Nakheel due to pay Dh3.6bn in bonds
[May14: if it wins an extension on its 12/14/09 bonds, Nakheel would have its $3.52bn sukuk to repay this day.]
June 23: Dubai World due to pay $2.1bn loan
Nov. 1: Nakheel due to pay Dh367.35mn loan
Jan. 11, 2011: Nakheel due to pay $1.2bn loan
Jan. 16, 2011: Nakheel due to pay $750mn bond
Feb. 23, 2011: DP World due to pay $6.3bn loan
Feb. 23, 2011: DP World due to pay $200mn loan
March 22, 2011: Ports Customs and Free Zones due to repay $6.8bn loan (unclear whether this is still a Dubai World liability)
April 12, 2011: DP World due to pay $400mn loan
April 12, 2011: DP World due to pay $6.8bn loan
June 20, 2011: Dubai World due to repay $450mn loan
June 24, 2011: Dubai World due to repay $1.95bn loan
July 10, 2011: Ports Customs and Free Zones due to repay $1.003bn loan
Aug. 10, 2011: Dubai Drydocks due to pay $1.7bn loan
Sept. 29, 2011: Ports & Free Zone World due to pay $150.027mn loan
Sept. 29, 2011: Ports & Free Zone World due to pay $853mn loan
Sept. 30, 2011: Dubai Drydocks due to repay $2.2bn loan
Oct. 21, 2011: Dubai Drydocks due to repay $1.7bn loan


----------



## TerryPop

Dubaiiscool:) said:


> The government of Abu Dhabi and the Central Bank of the UAE has announced that it has agreed to provide $10 billion to the Dubai Financial Support Fund, allowing Dubai World to repay $4.1 billion of Islamic sukuk bonds that are due to be paid on Monday.
> 
> The announcement was made by the government of Dubai in an e-mailed statement.
> 
> Sheikh Ahmad Bin Saeed Al Maktoum, chairman of the Dubai Supreme Fiscal Committee confirmed the move by the UAE government to provide the financial support.
> 
> He said: "Like other global financial centers, Dubai has faced recent market challenges driven by the global economic slowdown and a severe real estate market correction.
> 
> "Recently, Dubai World announced that it might not be able to commercially support its obligations. Since that time, the Government of Dubai has worked closely with the Abu Dhabi Government and the UAE Central Bank in addressing and assessing the impact of Dubai World on the UAE economy, banking system and investor confidence."
> 
> He added: "Specifically, the Government of Abu Dhabi has agreed to fund $10 billion to the Dubai Financial Support Fund that will be used to satisfy a series of upcoming obligations on Dubai World.
> 
> "As a first action for the new fund, the Government of Dubai has authorised $4.1 billion to be used to pay the sukuk obligations that are due today.
> 
> "The remaining funds would also provide for interest expenses and company working capital through April 30, 2010 - conditioned on the company being successful in negotiating a standstill as previously announced.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/576060-uae-agrees-10bn-deal-to-help-pay-off-dubai-debt



I am sooooooooo happy I was wrong :rofl:

Thank you Abu Dhabi!!!!!! I got a good feeling :kiss:


----------



## AITU

gerald.d said:


> Oh, and would I be right in assuming that anyone who bought Nakheel bonds last week has just doubled their money?


This guy did :lol:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/575098-pay-back

"In fact, on the same day that Gulf markets opened for the first time following the four-day Eid break, Sheikh Maktoum, the CEO of the UAE-based conglomerate Al Fajer Group, was snapping up bonds for less than 50 percent of their value the previous week. He tells Arabian Business that he made a "significant investment" across three of the emirate's government bonds the first day Dubai's bourse opened following the news."


----------



## gerald.d

Important news buried deep in the announcement:

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091214/BUSINESS/912149993/1133



> Finally, today the Government of Dubai will announce *a comprehensive reorganisation law*, a framework that is based upon internationally accepted standards for transparency and creditor protection. This law will be available should Dubai World and its subsidiaries be unable to achieve an acceptable restructuring of its remaining obligations.


Bankruptcy law in all but name?


----------



## TerryPop

Hanna said:


> In response to queries, I'm revisiting an earlier post: "Reports of my debt have been greatly exaggerated," in which I posted estimates of Dubai World's real debts after its revelation that it had $59 billion in consolidated liabilities. This terrifying number sparked some to wonder if the treadworn estimates of Dubai Inc.'s $80 billion in debts might actually be higher or that Dubai World's debts may somehow account for half of the total.
> The grand total for Dubai World and its units appears to be $36.49bn, of which $26bn is subject to restructuring.
> 
> Strictly speaking, no one knows for sure. Dubai and its subsidiary companies do not publish official debt tallies or debt repayment schedules. But thanks to the diligent work of analysts at EFG-Hermes, Deutsche Bank and Standard & Poor's, just to name a few, here's what we know, or at least think we know:
> 
> Dubai World has
> $59.3bn in consolidated liabilities,
> according to its own statements, which includes all debt and non-debt obligations at the conglomerate, its 12 subsidiaries and the 78 other units they own or control.
> 
> Of this, the group owes an estimated
> $10.52bn in bonds and
> $13.3bn in loans, for a total of
> $23.82bn, according to Deutsche Bank.
> 
> But clearly this leaves out significant portions of the Group's overall debts, because Dubai World has announced that the restructuring will affect $26bn in debt, $20bn at Dubai World and Limitless, and $6bn at Nakheel.
> 
> Deutsche bank has been able to track down only a portion of these.
> Dubai World, it estimates, owes
> $5.5bn in outstanding loans
> EFG-Hermes has put the loan figure at $6.7bn.
> 
> Nakheel owes
> $5.23bn in bonds and
> $1.85bn in loans for a total of debt of
> $7.08bn.
> 
> Limitless owes
> $1.2bn in loans
> 
> That only adds up to $13.78bn, leaving $12.22bn in debt unaccounted for.
> 
> If we assume that the total debts at Dubai World, Nakheel and Limitless are $26bn and add Deutsche Bank's estimates for the other Dubai World units, we come up with a total group debt of $36.49bn.
> 
> Here's a schedule of maturies for the Dubai World group debts we know about:
> Dec. 14: Nakheel's $3.52bn sukuk is due, though Dubai World has said it plans to ask creditors for a six-month extension.
> March 31, 2010: Limitless due to repay $1.2bn loan
> May 13: Nakheel due to pay Dh3.6bn in bonds
> 
> [May14: if it wins an extension on its 12/14/09 bonds, Nakheel would have its $3.52bn sukuk to repay this day.]*
> 
> June 23: Dubai World due to pay $2.1bn loan
> Nov. 1: Nakheel due to pay Dh367.35mn loan
> Jan. 11, 2011: Nakheel due to pay $1.2bn loan
> Jan. 16, 2011: Nakheel due to pay $750mn bond
> Feb. 23, 2011: DP World due to pay $6.3bn loan
> Feb. 23, 2011: DP World due to pay $200mn loan
> March 22, 2011: Ports Customs and Free Zones due to repay $6.8bn loan (unclear whether this is still a Dubai World liability)
> April 12, 2011: DP World due to pay $400mn loan
> April 12, 2011: DP World due to pay $6.8bn loan
> June 20, 2011: Dubai World due to repay $450mn loan
> June 24, 2011: Dubai World due to repay $1.95bn loan
> July 10, 2011: Ports Customs and Free Zones due to repay $1.003bn loan
> Aug. 10, 2011: Dubai Drydocks due to pay $1.7bn loan
> Sept. 29, 2011: Ports & Free Zone World due to pay $150.027mn loan
> Sept. 29, 2011: Ports & Free Zone World due to pay $853mn loan
> Sept. 30, 2011: Dubai Drydocks due to repay $2.2bn loan
> Oct. 21, 2011: Dubai Drydocks due to repay $1.7bn loan



Hanna its out in public domain now- Nakheel sukuk is being repaid today*, otherwise very useful schedule - can I ask where it came from?


----------



## Imre

AITU said:


> This guy did :lol:
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/575098-pay-back
> 
> "In fact, on the same day that Gulf markets opened for the first time following the four-day Eid break, Sheikh Maktoum, the CEO of the UAE-based conglomerate Al Fajer Group, was snapping up bonds for less than 50 percent of their value the previous week. He tells Arabian Business that he made a "significant investment" across three of the emirate's government bonds the first day Dubai's bourse opened following the news."


It was easy for him because he and all insider always knew that this problem will be solved.

Just imagine , how much money did the ADIA, so what is the 10 billion for them now?


----------



## speculator

Mistermark said:


> Dubai should invite Disney in to resurrect the best of the old DubaiLand plan.


In fact they ought to just give/gift Dubai land to disney and let disney do what theyre good at. No doubt a market for disney/dubailand exists and i think it would be a win win for all parties.


----------



## TerryPop

speculator said:


> In fact they ought to just give/gift Dubai land to disney and let disney do what theyre good at. No doubt a market for disney/dubailand exists and i think it would be a win win for all parties.


Its such an obvious requirement.

Is there no way of getting a Saudi to back the whole thing? 

The yanks won;t come here yet, they are licking their own wounds at the mo.

Needs someone behind it like a local & a serial entrepreneur who loves the region and invests with passion...


----------



## paul66

*Kuwait willing to offer financial help to Dubai and the UAE when required*

This just arrived on my bloomberg terminal...
"Kuwait willing to offer financial help to Dubai and the UAE when required"

I will post more info on this as I get it.

regards,
Paul


----------



## paul66

More on this...

Kuwait says had offered UAE help over Dubai debt

Kuwait, which has one of the world's largest wealth funds, had offered the United Arab Emirates help in overcoming the Dubai debt crisis, Kuwait's foreign minister said on Tuesday.

Bonds

"I called my brother the foreing minister of the UAE ,... and offered help," Sheikh Mohammad al-Salem al-Sabah told a news conference at a Gulf Arab summit.

"I said we are with you in good times and the bad," he said.

UAE member Dubai shocked world markets on Nov. 25 when it requested a standstill on $26 billion worth of debt owed by state-owned conglomerate Dubai World, a flagship of the emirate.

Fellow UAE emirate Abu Dhabi, the federation's largest member, extended Dubai $10 billion on Monday to help with the debt crisis.

The UAE is also one of the wealthiest Arab countries and the world's third-largest exporter.


----------



## Mistermark

paul66 said:


> This just arrived on my bloomberg terminal...
> "Kuwait willing to offer financial help to Dubai and the UAE when required"
> 
> I will post more info on this as I get it.
> 
> regards,
> Paul


That's potentially very good news. I've had some business dealings with Kuwaitis and found them very decent people, both smart and principled. They have plenty of oil revenue too. And unless I'm mistaken they're GCC members. If things go the wrong way for Dubai/UAE, that's bad news for the prospects for a common currency - so it's in their interests to help.


----------



## speculator

Hmmmn.....nice people they maybe but does this mean that AD are a bit skint too ? I mean all this talk of AD'd sovereign fund but is this fund really as healthy as we have been made to believe. 

I believe Kuwait maybe banging BIG heads together as well as putting money on the table.


----------



## smussuw

Kuwait was the only country that helped the UAE before our independence. They built schools and hospitals and paid for the teachers and doctors.


----------



## paul66

So Dubai now has two big brothers it can count on!


----------



## Mistermark

speculator said:


> Hmmmn.....nice people they maybe but does this mean that AD are a bit skint too ? I mean all this talk of AD'd sovereign fund but is this fund really as healthy as we have been made to believe.
> 
> I believe Kuwait maybe banging BIG heads together as well as putting money on the table.


I don't think AD is skint. I wonder whether there may be some truth to your second point though - Kuwait wants the Gulf as a whole to flourish, and no-one in the region wants Dubai going to the likes of Iran (its government, unelected crooks and murderers, not its people...) for help, so Kuwait is stepping in as a sign of loyalty and an example to others.


----------



## noir-dresses

Well the AD fund bought a ten percent stake of the Hyatt hotel chain today, so Im sure they're doing fine.

http://www.khaleejtimes.ae/biz/insi...ber/business_December350.xml&section=business


----------



## speculator

paul66 said:


> So Dubai now has two big brothers it can count on!


With these sort of brothers you would expect not to have any financial worries at all. 

So I wonder if Kuwait is going to act as the pivotal leader/negotiator for the sake of the GCC and Arab unity. Maybe they will be the wedge between the Maktoums and the Nayans. If this is the case then it bodes very well for Dubai as I can see light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## paul66

speculator said:


> Hmmmn.....nice people they maybe but does this mean that AD are a bit skint too ? I mean all this talk of AD'd sovereign fund but is this fund really as healthy as we have been made to believe.
> 
> I believe Kuwait maybe banging BIG heads together as well as putting money on the table.


AD is doing absolutely fine, they have enough cash :cheers1:

Did you know that Qatar and UAE make the most money from oil out of any country (return on investment). It costs them only $24 a barrel to break-even - The rest is for their piggy bank! :cheers:


----------



## Wigger68

Jondubai said:


> Hi Tony and ******
> I too have been told to follow the RERA plan, in fact my contract has 30% payment due on completition, guess I got it just before you two. I am told by DSC that i have to follow RERA otherwise they can cancel the reservation, this is just crazy as I would think a contract would stand no matter what. Let me know what DSC is telling you and hopefully we can make some sense out of this. I too am in the European building  hehe


I spoke to Aamir yesterday. I asked him if I could continue with my original agreement that has not once had a missed date etc. or did I have to now go to the RERA plan. He told me that I did not have to go with RERA plan and therefore I do not have to pay the 10% now (to get me to 90% paid). Instead, he said something like (forgive me I did not quite understand it myself!) "Do not send any money now. Instead we will be issuing invoices out for the final payment early in the New Year, with the completion date stated on that invoice". I asked for the completion date - he said " it is looking like end of July". So I have followed this phone-call up with an email to Aamir to confirm our conversation, and I am NOT sending over any money for Christmas!


----------



## TerryPop

paul66 said:


> AD is doing absolutely fine, they have enough cash :cheers1:
> 
> Did you know that Qatar and UAE make the most money from oil out of any country (return on investment). It costs them only $24 a barrel to break-even - The rest is for their piggy bank! :cheers:


UAE does about 2.3 million barrels per day?

Lets say they net 40 dollars of it per barrel as spendable income.

Thats USD 92,000,000 per day plus the income from natural gas and all their other industries.

Here it says that oil makes up 38% of their national income.

So if the UAE is making over 200 million dollars per day (this is sooooo going to get shot down i'm guessing) are we ok?


----------



## agod

^^^^

As long as you, and Mrs. Terry Pop, keep filling up that little motor of yours, will we be fine...........Cher Chunk.

Al.


----------



## Philippa C

Abu Dhabi has some huge plans of its own to finance: eg Masdar City while their own real estate developers (eg Aldar & Sorouh) have not done so well this year. Their 2030 plan will cost billions to implement. There's no doubt they have a lot of money and are placed than almost anywhere else in the world but like even the richest, they do have to keep an eye on spending. The corruption we've seen in the real estate industry has not been confined to Dubai and that always soaks up money too.


----------



## speculator

^^^^

Yes I agree AD surely have a lot on their plate and I believe they need to watch their pennies. 

Im not so sure the sovereign fund is as large as is claimed. Before the crisis figures were floating around of $250-500 and now its gone up to 700-900 billion. WOW that's remarkable in a world crisis and I wonder how on earth they have nearly doubled the fund since the start of the crisis.

Transparency ! Transparency ! Transparency !


----------



## Imre

Philippa C said:


> Abu Dhabi has some huge plans of its own to finance: eg Masdar City while their own real estate developers (eg Aldar & Sorouh) have not done so well this year. Their 2030 plan will cost billions to implement. There's no doubt they have a lot of money and are placed than almost anywhere else in the world but like even the richest, they do have to keep an eye on spending. The corruption we've seen in the real estate industry has not been confined to Dubai and that always soaks up money too.


This true, they are not wasting their money, they dont like to pay

One of my friend works with the Aldar and their payments almost stopped or getting very slow in the last few months and also put some projects ON HOLD.

Abu Dhabi has the same problem as Dubai, no one will invest there without visa in the future , hopefully one day they will realise this.


----------



## peacesells

*Ajman/stalled projects consolidations with Dubai projects = a scam!*

I just wanted to post this because this really bothers me and I simply cannot believe some people are that stupid - if you are being offerred a consolidation deal from an Ajman project to a Dubai project or something similar, there's a 99% that IT IS A SCAM! 

Look, there are genuine consolidation offers on the market but no decent developer goes out and asks some third rate agent to market it for them. These Ajman/Dubai things have been coming up lately and here's how they work:

1) You bought an apartment for 200,000 Dhs in Ajman. Paid an amount of 100,000 Dhs already. Developer ran away or whatever else and basically you want out.

2) Someone (probably some 'agent' from some no-name company) approaches you with a wonderful offer to consolidate your money spent on Ajman project into an ongoing Dubai project. Wow you say, let's hear the terms.

3) The terms usually are something like this: 
- Dubai apartment costs 500,000 dhs
- You already paid 100,000 dhs in Ajman
- Therefore, we will give you the Dubai apartment for only 400,000 and everyone wins!

4) Now *here's the scam *- the Dubai apartment in question most likely costs only 300,000 dhs and even if the agents are planning to 'pay off' the Ajman developer to cancel your contract, they will do it from the 100,000 difference you will be overpaying. 

There's some variations to this but in general, this is how these things work - you are basically buying a unit off the market at a higher rate. 

Please be careful when evaluating consolidation proposals.


----------



## shagdash

Imre said:


> This true, they are not wasting their money, they dont like to pay
> 
> One of my friend works with the Aldar and their payments almost stopped or getting very slow in the last few months and also put some projects ON HOLD.
> 
> Abu Dhabi has the same problem as Dubai, no one will invest there without visa in the future , hopefully one day they will realise this.


Yes but AD unlike Dubai, doesn't really need real estate for revenue generation. Hence they're not gonna take extra measures like visas for foreigners. 
Also first page news on GN today about how the 3 islands are a bone of contention between AD and Iran. Surely if they did allow foreigner visas, a lot of Iranis would wanna come. Don't they want to keep a tight control on that?


----------



## dubaimat

AppleMac said:


> I think Philippa's point (although I am sure she can speak for herself) is that whilst we see numerous articles in the western press complaining about the levels of remuneration to manual workers in Dubai, when compared with other countries in the region the rates are not that different.


again, my critic stands



dubaimat said:


> ^^relative to what? They should have started comparing *some of the GCC countries (which are among the richest countries and the worst in regards of "remuneration levels"*), don't you agree?


Israel may be a western democracy and as far as I know, they are heavily criticized for a lot of things on an ongoing basis, I could or could not care less.

^^The situation here in the Arab World as far as human rights, media and treatment/ "remuneration" of workers is concerned, needs to be pointed out, discussed, criticized and if possible changed. ^^


----------



## shagdash

AppleMac said:


> I think Philippa's point (although I am sure she can speak for herself) is that whilst we see numerous articles in the western press complaining about the levels of remuneration to manual workers in Dubai, when compared with other countries in the region the rates are not that different.


Philippa's "point" could've been made without referring to Israel's treatment of Palestinians and how the West thinks that Israel can do no wrong.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Hope u are not Israel sympathetic because the UAE is anti-Israel


----------



## TerryPop

Philippa C said:


> That's very reasonable. The service charges will become a bigger issue as rents fall. We've a unit on the Palm where the max we can get in rent is 200K while the service charge is over 50K.


Hey Philippa- I completely agree these will become much more contentious...

Imagine in Discovery gardens 1 beds renting for 55k and service fees are 30,000...

Who's winning ? who WHO WHO


----------



## sidxb

shagdash said:


> ^^
> 
> Are you anti-Semitic?


:lol: ... I hope you were not serious. 

btw ... its about time to invent a term for Dubai bashers :hahano:


----------



## Philippa C

AppleMac said:


> I think Philippa's point (although I am sure she can speak for herself) is that whilst we see numerous articles in the western press complaining about the levels of remuneration to manual workers in Dubai, when compared with other countries in the region the rates are not that different.


Exactly, and that the treatment of migrant labour in Dubai is raised in almost every article about Dubai while similar treatment goes generally unreported in other countries in the region. The point is as relevant as any other recent discussion ion here about what some percieve to be biased western reporting of Dubai.


----------



## Philippa C

shagdash said:


> Point is this is a thread abt Dubai. Why bring up Israel? What relevance does that have here?
> 
> .


The UK housing market is frequently discussed on this thread and the US market has been discussed too. There has been no objection from you to that which is suprising seeing as you want to confine the discussion to Dubai, or more precisely in your case, the demise of Dubai.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

sidxb said:


> btw ... its about time to invent a term for Dubai bashers :hahano:


Hmm not sure it is easy to condense "presupposing sniveling green-eyed bigots"


----------



## Philippa C

TerryPop said:


> Imagine in Discovery gardens 1 beds renting for 55k and service fees are 30,000...
> 
> Who's winning ? who WHO WHO


At least on the Palm, Nakheel gives the excuse that part of the fee is for the maintenance of Palm's infrastruture and there are a lot of roads to be maintained. They can't apply the same argument to Discovery Gardens.


----------



## docc

sidxb said:


> :lol: ... I hope you were not serious.
> 
> btw ... its about time to invent a term for Dubai bashers :hahano:


How about Dubaishers?


----------



## dubaimat

Philippa C said:


> The UK housing market is frequently discussed on this thread and the US market has been discussed too. There has been no objection from you to that which is suprising seeing as you want to confine the discussion to Dubai, or more precisely in your case, the demise of Dubai.


May be you can help me out and explain to me what a discussion about the situation of migrant workers in Dubai, has to do with how you call it the "demise of Dubai"? 
Just too many hidden agendas I would say and not too many glitzy project launches over the last year that end up being posted on SSC by you.:cheers:


----------



## shagdash

Philippa C said:


> The UK housing market is frequently discussed on this thread and the US market has been discussed too. There has been no objection from you to that which is suprising seeing as you want to confine the discussion to Dubai, or more precisely in your case, the demise of Dubai.


The average income of the average middle class Dubai resident is around 10-15k a month. Around 120-180k a year.
The rent for 2 bed apartments, just 4 years ago was 60k. With that income, the average middle class resident could afford a 2 bed home for his family(and not be squeezed into a studio), live reasonably well and still save up some money.
The 2 bed Springs villas launched at 500k (around 4-5 times this middle income earners yearly income), was launched targeting this social demographic.
Enter the greedy speculator, who gobbled up these properties, regurgitated them and spit them out at double, triple, four, five times the original price such that the original Springs two-bedder costing 500k changed hands for upto 2.5 mil.
To maintain a decent yield, the investor upped rents to 150k-180k for a 2 bed home, pricing the poor middle class man out of the market, who downsized and downsized till he reached a studio and could downsize no further.
Every other market in the world has some form of capital flow control, capital gain tax norms in place that prevent such speculation frenzy that hit Dubai. Unfortunately, Dubai being relatively new in the game has some growing up to do, some laws to implement which they are doing now and alongwith natural market forces will return to a semblance of a more normal, stable, healthy market - fit for both end-user residents and long term investor landlord alike.
When that happens, when prices and rents fall enough to bring Dubai back to health, Dubai will be born again - a better, newer, fresher soul - clean and optimistic like a baby. 
And then that will be the demise of greedy speculators such as you.


----------



## Mistermark

TerryPop said:


> Hey Philippa- I completely agree these will become much more contentious...
> 
> Imagine in Discovery gardens 1 beds renting for 55k and service fees are 30,000...
> 
> Who's winning ? who WHO WHO


One of the nightmare scenarios that has so far not been discussed is what happens if rents fall further and service charges continue to rise. In some of the lower-yielding, high service-charge projects - and Discovery Gardens is a prime candidate - the service charges could exceed the rental income. In which case, owners will gradually desert their apartments and abandon them to the sand.

I don't think this will happen, largely because the trend on rents may well be upward, but it's a point to consider when deciding where to buy.


----------



## Mistermark

shagdash said:


> The average income of the average middle class Dubai resident is around 10-15k a month. Around 120-180k a year.


Is this definitely the case? What kinds of jobs do you have in mind at that salary level? I'm aware of mid-level jobs in media companies, for instance, that pay at least double that range.


----------



## sidxb

shagdash said:


> The average income of the average middle class Dubai resident is around 10-15k a month. Around 120-180k a year.
> The rent for 2 bed apartments, just 4 years ago was 60k. With that income, the average middle class resident could afford a 2 bed home for his family(and not be squeezed into a studio), live reasonably well and still save up some money.
> The 2 bed Springs villas launched at 500k (around 4-5 times this middle income earners yearly income), was launched targeting this social demographic.
> Enter the greedy speculator, who gobbled up these properties, regurgitated them and spit them out at double, triple, four, five times the original price such that the original Springs two-bedder costing 500k changed hands for upto 2.5 mil.
> To maintain a decent yield, the investor upped rents to 150k-180k for a 2 bed home, pricing the poor middle class man out of the market, who downsized and downsized till he reached a studio and could downsize no further.


Couple of points regarding your post 
1) You are correct that 2 bed apt was cheaper in 2005 but I am sure you must be aware that even the price in 2005 was much higher than 2 bed price in 2001 . Its just the dynamics of growing city.

2) Springs was launched at 500K ( around 2003/4 ) because that was the PRICE of 2 bed that time. It was very risky investment with people not sure that anything would be built between jumeirah to springs and people feared that springs may stay a suburban area for very long time. 

Although I agree with you that Dubai needs more regulations but can not deny the marvelous achievements of this city. The size of the city has more than doubled and I believe the city is giving livelihood to more ppl than in 2005.


----------



## shagdash

^^

Mid-level accountants with say 4-5 years experience get paid 4k-6k dirhams.
Salespeople from banks to IT firms to media sales all earn in the 8k-10k bracket.
A friend who works for the world's premier copying solution company started at 6k per month in sales.
Another who works for a large bank in the Market Risk dept., started at 10k a month.
Pick up any Gulf News Appointments pages and you can easily see the majority of jobs advertised are in the 5k-15k range.


----------



## incidentflux

shagdash said:


> ^^
> 
> Mid-level accountants with say 4-5 years experience get paid 4k-6k dirhams.
> Salespeople from banks to IT firms to media sales all earn in the 8k-10k bracket.
> A friend who works for the world's premier copying solution company started at 6k per month in sales.
> Another who works for a large bank in the Market Risk dept., started at 10k a year.
> Pick up any Gulf News Appointments pages and you can easily see the majority of jobs advertised are in the 5k-15k range.


These must be pretty sad companies paying these salaries. Almost everyone I know makes more than 11K gross per month, and has been making that for more than 4 years, that's what you need to survive in UAE these days.

If you just meant base pay without allowances, then you're right, in some cases, unless they're mature companies (Most probably not managed by the old guard Indians, yes I said it!).

The UAE local papers are a barometer, of the crappiest jobs and salaries. Best to look on industry specialist sites or LinkedIn, a lot of the vacancies never even get advertised within UAE. Local papers advertise just bottom of the barrel stuff.


----------



## gerald.d

sidxb said:


> :lol: ... I hope you were not serious.
> 
> btw ... its about time to invent a term for Dubai bashers :hahano:


"See you next Tuesdays"


----------



## shagdash

sidxb said:


> Couple of points regarding your post
> 1) You are correct that 2 bed apt was cheaper in 2005 but I am sure you must be aware that even the price in 2005 was much higher than 2 bed price in 2001 . Its just the dynamics of growing city.
> 
> 2) Springs was launched at 500K ( around 2003/4 ) because that was the PRICE of 2 bed that time. It was very risky investment with people not sure that anything would be built between jumeirah to springs and people feared that springs may stay a suburban area for very long time.
> 
> Although I agree with you that Dubai needs more regulations but can not deny the marvelous achievements of this city. The size of the city has more than doubled and I believe the city is giving livelihood to more ppl than in 2005.


Dubai population in 2005 was 1.2 mil. In 2009 population in Dubai is estimated at 1.5 mil. That is a 25% population growth.
During the same period thousands of new homes were released into the market. 
Even without actual figures on number of new homes, I would yet hazard a guess that supply kept pace and even outpaced actual end-user demand.
Yet prices and rentals were bid far up and beyond the 25% population growth rate, when actually it should have been falling given all that new supply hitting the market.
Surely no fundamental reason existed for prices to have been bid up to such insane levels except irrational exuberance.
Growth in asset values have to justified by growth in real incomes, growth in population and restricted supply. 
A 300% to 500% jump in asset values is just not justifiable when population has only grown by 25%, real incomes haven't changed much and supply of houses has increased by a large amount.
No one doubts that this wonderful city was built out of sand seemingly overnight and that IS a great achievement. However, had there been regulation in place to check the greedy speculators, unscrupulous developers, other crooks and cheats, a little more far-sightedness, a little more solid vision, the fall would not have been so hard.


----------



## Freestyler

shagdash said:


> And then that will be the demise of greedy speculators such as you.


Oh cool :banana: we have a mind reader who can see who is an speculator through an internet forum :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Residential real estate prices are likely to stabilise in 2010, with buyers investing for the long term, according to property agents.

"Prices across villas and apartments will stabilise in 2010. Moreover, buyers investing in residences in Dubai will enter on a long-term basis, indicating a less speculative interest in the emirate," said Mohanad Alwadiya, Managing Director of Harbor Real Estate.

However, challenges to the real estate sector continue to remain. Alwadiya said: "While mortgage financing is easing, it is still limited in availability. Banks are lending but only to people with certain fixed profiles and according to rigid criteria. For example, people working in the real estate sector find it hard to source funding because of the risk associated to their job. Also, infrastructure in many developments needs to keep pace with the progress of the development."

Vineet Kumar, Head of Sales at Asteco, said: "The buying trend has been towards ready properties, and mortgage finance is available for most projects from leading mortgage providers. Interest rates are in the range of 6.5 per cent to 10 per cent. Occupancy levels in developments handed over are generally in excess of 70 per cent. Locations such as Dubai Marina and Downtown Burj Dubai are being preferred by young families, while larger families have a preference for large villas in locations such as Emirates Hills and Jumeirah Islands."

Just ahead of the new year, Emirates Business picked 12 residential projects in Dubai that received interest from potential property owners and tenants in the past 12 months. Some of these projects saw increased sales and rental transactions while some projects, such as Burj Dubai by Emaar Properties and the Villa Project in Dubailand by Al Mazaya Real Estate, are gathering a lot of interest just ahead of their handover. 

Other major factors noted have been population shifts from other emirates and other developments in Dubai's Discovery Gardens and International City projects. 

"The reason for this is the attractive rental prices within these developments. In fact, recently, large corporates have looked to lease multiple units for their mid-level staff in International City," said Alwadiya.

"The Motor City development, too, has witnessed an increase in occupancy rates from end-users and tenants seeking affordable and value-for-money residential units. Influx of people from neighbouring emirates, such as Sharjah, Ajman and Abu Dhabi, has further fuelled growth in occupancy rates within the development."

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...2202009_c1853cbfefb343e2a7c6d3c5c8f5c40e.aspx


----------



## shagdash

gerald.d said:


> "See you next Tuesdays"


Not classy, gerald.


----------



## Morrismarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> Residential real estate prices are likely to stabilise in 2010, with buyers investing for the long term, according to property agents.



Property agents ?? Well they would say that woudn't they. :lol:

With 85% of the population being merely "guests" of Sheik Mo, who can be told to fxxx off at any time, I'd say long term Dubai is fxxcked !! Christ (or Allah) knows what's going to happen now Abu Dhabi have control of Dubai. Banning alcohol next perhaps ??

It's just a massive Buy To Let market. Everybody here wants to buy a property and rent it out. The whole place is based on outside investors who want to make money from rentals from a transient population. 

OK so hands up anybody on this thread who hasn't invested for rental income ?? Bet there's very few of you would come forward. How many of us would given a time machine would go back a few years and reverse all their decisions about their UAE investments ??

I'm as guilty as anybody to be honest......the most amazing thing is I never realised this 4 years ago !! :nuts: Just wait until phase 2 of the credit crunch kicks off around the World next year. We ain't seen nothing yet !! Armageddon is comming.


----------



## arfie

Nothing wrong with banning alcohol I know I might be criticised by some for saying this  long term Dubai should be fine it has the best infrastructure in middle east by some distance. People from Asia and other GCC countries will keep coming to Dubai but I agree they need to sort out alot of things to bring back confidence.


----------



## gerald.d

Morrismarina said:


> Property agents ?? Well they would say that woudn't they. :lol:
> 
> With 85% of the population being merely "guests" of Sheik Mo, who can be told to fxxx off at any time, I'd say long term Dubai is fxxcked !! Christ (or Allah) knows what's going to happen now Abu Dhabi have control of Dubai. Banning alcohol next perhaps ??


Alcohol isn't banned in Abu Dhabi, so I think that's rather unlikely.

85% of the population have always been guests. It hasn't been a problem in the past, it's not a problem now (other than for some investors on this forum), and it won't be a problem in the future.

There will always be people more than happy to live here as guests. Whether those who speculated on property are happy with the market rent that they'll be paying is of course an entirely different discussion.


----------



## Philippa C

shagdash said:


> And then that will be the demise of greedy speculators such as you.


I object to this comment and the post asking if I was anti-semitic -totally uncalled for. Such comments reflect more poorly on you than on me. I'm not going to engage in any further discussion with you.


----------



## gerald.d

I love it when someone engages in discussion with someone to tell them they will no longer engage in a discussion with them.


----------



## AppleMac

Morrismarina said:


> Christ (or Allah) knows what's going to happen now Abu Dhabi have control of Dubai. Banning alcohol next perhaps ??


Hardly :lol:

AD is just a smaller version of Dubai - if you go to Blitz or the Rock Bottom you would think that you were in the Rattlesnakes smaller brother....


----------



## AppleMac

shagdash said:


> However, had there been regulation in place to check the greedy speculators, unscrupulous developers, other crooks and cheats, a little more far-sightedness, a little more solid vision, the fall would not have been so hard.


Hmmm.....

Some parts of the US have suffered falls as big as Dubai yet they are highly regulated - booms and busts are simply part of a capitalist economy.


----------



## peacesells

incidentflux said:


> These must be pretty sad companies paying these salaries. Almost everyone I know makes more than 11K gross per month, and has been making that for more than 4 years, that's what you need to survive in UAE these days.
> 
> If you just meant base pay without allowances, then you're right, in some cases, unless they're mature companies (Most probably not managed by the old guard Indians, yes I said it!).
> 
> The UAE local papers are a barometer, of the crappiest jobs and salaries. Best to look on industry specialist sites or LinkedIn, a lot of the vacancies never even get advertised within UAE. Local papers advertise just bottom of the barrel stuff.


When I left a listed Dubai-listed MNC in 2005, out of 20 people in my department, we had only 3 earning more than 11k. In my current company, out of 30 people, only 6 earn above 11k. 

shagdash is bang on the money when it comes to salaries. I realize that most of you guys hang with the golf-playing middle-aged white men, but for an average non-white 20-to-30 something, a 10k salary is a dream in Dubai, not a reality. I'd say the mean salary for a Dubai expat, if you exclude low-paid labor, is 8-9k simply because of super-high wages at the top. A median salary, which is arguably more important when talking rents, is a measily 7k.


----------



## shagdash

peacesells said:


> When I left a listed Dubai-listed MNC in 2005, out of 20 people in my department, we had only 3 earning more than 11k. In my current company, out of 30 people, only 6 earn above 11k.
> 
> shagdash is bang on the money when it comes to salaries. I realize that most of you guys hang with the golf-playing middle-aged white men, but for an average non-white 20-to-30 something, a 10k salary is a dream in Dubai, not a reality. I'd say the mean salary for a Dubai expat, if you exclude low-paid labor, is 8-9k simply because of super-high wages at the top. A median salary, which is arguably more important when talking rents, is a measily 7k.


peacesells, we may be amongst the only non-whites on this thread, who hang out with the vast low-paid (well according to the whites at least) majority of dubai and know the real salaries of most middle class earners in dubai.


----------



## shagdash

Philippa C said:


> I object to this comment and the post asking if I was anti-semitic -totally uncalled for. Such comments reflect more poorly on you than on me. I'm not going to engage in any further discussion with you.


As uncalled for as your post insinuating I want Dubai's demise - dramatic posts will attract dramatic comments!


----------



## shagdash

AppleMac said:


> Hmmm.....
> 
> Some parts of the US have suffered falls as big as Dubai yet they are highly regulated - booms and busts are simply part of a capitalist economy.


http://www.knightfrank.com/news/Knight-Frank-Global-House-Price-Index-082.aspx

US home prices fell by 9.4%
Dubai home prices fell by 47%

I know you said some parts of the US but the average would suggest otherwise.


----------



## Richard Head

shagdash said:


> As uncalled for as your post insinuating I want Dubai's demise - dramatic posts will attract dramatic comments!


Since we're all being so discriminatory today, can't wait to see if a woman can stick to her last statement and resist the urge to have the last word. First time for everything :lol::lol::lol: :cheers: :cheers:

Sorry Philippa, couldn't resist. I'm a nice guy really............


----------



## shagdash

gerald.d said:


> Alcohol isn't banned in Abu Dhabi, so I think that's rather unlikely.
> 
> 85% of the population have always been guests. It hasn't been a problem in the past, it's not a problem now (other than for some investors on this forum), and it won't be a problem in the future.
> 
> There will always be people more than happy to live here as guests. Whether those who speculated on property are happy with the market rent that they'll be paying is of course an entirely different discussion.


True about 85% of the population being guests in Dubai. 
However, wouldn't you agree that Dubai's dynamics have changed for good?
I mean, they've never faced anything as big as this boom and bust before have they?
Other more mature economies have, but Dubai hasn't (the one time they went out to achieve the world's biggest/tallest/best - they crashed and how!)
That would be enough to scare them away for a generation or so, no?
What I'm trying to say, most inarticulately, is as this crash has been quite unprecedented in Dubai, how they may react is also a big unknown and as such adds to the risk factor, doesn't it?


----------



## arfie

shagdash said:


> http://www.knightfrank.com/news/Knight-Frank-Global-House-Price-Index-082.aspx
> 
> US home prices fell by 9.4%
> Dubai home prices fell by 47%
> 
> I know you said some parts of the US but the average would suggest otherwise.


This must be a figure for last year. Just take a look how much US prices have dropped last 3 yrs. US housing Market is in alot bigger trouble.


----------



## Philippa C

Richard Head said:


> Since we're all being so discriminatory today, can't wait to see if a woman can stick to her last statement and resist the urge to have the last word. First time for everything :lol::lol::lol: :cheers: :cheers:
> 
> Sorry Philippa, couldn't resist. I'm a nice guy really............



I know you are Richard  Better in life to have the last laugh than the last word


----------



## Morrismarina

Well done Philippa you got the last word after all. :lol:


----------



## Morrismarina

AppleMac said:


> Hardly :lol:
> 
> AD is just a smaller version of Dubai - if you go to Blitz or the Rock Bottom you would think that you were in the Rattlesnakes smaller brother....


Well that's encouraging perhaps AD is more liberal than I thought. I've only spent a day in AD so no real personal experience of the place to be fair.

Is alcohol as freely available as in Dubai or more restricted ?? To some alcohol may be of little importance especially to Islamic people and I can understand that, but tourism is very important to Dubai and a vast amount of these holidaymakers come from Europe where they would expect to have a drink on holiday. 

The point I was really trying to make was that with AD bailing out Dubai last week and undoubtedly going to have to do this further there's talk about them "reigning in" their little brother. What effects would this "reigning in" take ??


----------



## Freestyler

> The point I was really trying to make was that with AD bailing out Dubai last week and undoubtedly going to have to do this further there's talk about them "reigning in" their little brother. What effects would this "reigning in" take ??


That is a load of willys', to be honest. What they are interested in is shares in DEWA and Emirates Airlines, but their interest doesn't mean they will bully their into these companies as favor for bailout.


----------



## Philippa C

gerald.d said:


> Whatever you can get for your budget in either Old Town or the Residences.



I agree Old Town or better still Old Town Island. You might get a one bed Tajer unit for 1.5mil. Try and buy before the Burj opens on Jan 4!

Or would you like to buy a share in an MR unit


----------



## True Blue

TerryPop said:


> I have recently come into 1.5 million dirhams.
> 
> It has to be spent in Dubai on real estate.
> 
> Any suggestions on where/ what you would do with it?
> 
> All gags and amusing posts welcome too- but do have to d something with it...
> 
> :cheers: Cheers


Saw a 2 bed come on for sale in Dorrabay for about 1.35M. There is atleast one other for less than 1.5M. Rent value is about 130k.


----------



## speculator

TerryPop said:


> I have recently come into 1.5 million dirhams.
> 
> It has to be spent in Dubai on real estate..
> 
> :cheers: Cheers


OUCH ! I wouldn't mind that as a xmas present even if it has to be spent in Dubai.


----------



## Imre

TerryPop said:


> I have recently come into 1.5 million dirhams.
> 
> It has to be spent in Dubai on real estate.
> 
> Any suggestions on where/ what you would do with it?
> 
> All gags and amusing posts welcome too- but do have to d something with it...
> 
> :cheers: Cheers


If you want a good rental income dont buy anything in the Downtown Burj Dubai, service charge already expensive and I have heard that Emaar will increase more.( also dont touch anything what is Nakheel)

I would buy 3 studios at the JLT , that is good income and if you need money in the future you can sell only 1 or 2 but if you buy only one apartment and need money you should sell it 

Dubai Marina also good , if you are lucky you can get 3 studios also .

Or maybe mix studios , 1 JLT and 2 Marina or 2 JLT and 1 Marina.

So only Marina and JLT , this is my opinion.

:cheers:


----------



## cayman1

If you want a good rental income dont buy anything in the Downtown Burj Dubai, service charge already expensive and I have heard that Emaar will increase more.( also dont touch anything what is Nakheel)
And what do you think about offices in BB ?


----------



## gerald.d

Is there an echo in here?


----------



## cayman1

none echo only question !


----------



## Smokeey

If I had AED1.5m I would personally go for a 2Br in the marina, or possibly JBR.


----------



## peacesells

I'd get two studios or a one 2 bed in DSO and one 1 Bed in Marina. All completed.


----------



## Mission is back

How much can you pick a 1br marina apt now? average size?


----------



## Mistermark

I'd try to buy 2x 1-bed in the Marina, or if my budget didn't stretch that far, one in the Marina, one in JLT. Aim for apartments that are small in square footage relative to the number of bedrooms (since rent is based mainly on bedrooms, whereas purchase price and service charges are based on sq ft), in good mid-market buildings with low service charges, and good views.


----------



## shagdash

DECEMBER 21, 2009, 2:59 P.M. ET.

Dubai World Kicks Off Debt Talks .By MIRNA SLEIMAN 

DUBAI—Dubai World's bid to restructure about $22 billion of debt kicked off Monday, but an initial meeting with creditors delivered little hope of a quick settlement.

Bankers representing more than 90 lenders gathered at the Dubai World Trade Center's Sheik Maktoum conference hall to hear an initial presentation from Dubai World's restructuring team but there was no formal proposal for a standstill of the conglomerate's debts.

"This is a long process that will take long time," said a spokesman for the company after a presentation given to banks in Dubai.

The company, once a crown jewel in the business empire of Dubai's ruler Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, tipped the emirate into crisis when on Nov. 25 it was announced that it would seek to freeze its debts for six months.

Bankers attending the meeting were divided over whether creditors would accept a payoff on reduced terms, or agree to refinance Dubai World's obligations for an extended period. "I can guarantee there will not be haircuts," said one local banker attending the meetings.
Dubai World is at the center of global concern that Dubai, the second-largest sheikdom in the United Arab Emirates, may not be able to service its $80 billion mountain of debt built up over the last decade to build grandiose real-estate projects and buy assets overseas.

A long and drawn-out negotiation with banks could add further to uncertainty about the emirate's finances just as it begins to rebuild its international reputation. A senior Dubai royal, Sheik Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum and one of the emirate's most powerful technocrats, Mohammed Al Shaibani, both met with U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner last week as part of the rehabilitation push. 

"I think this negotiation may have a direct bearing on markets and if uncertainty prevails or there is lack of positive traction we in turn may see limited upside," said Saud Masud, head of research at UBS AG in Dubai.

The Dubai World spokesman said the company will make interest payments on its debts until a standstill can be agreed with creditors. "Dubai World will keep on servicing its debt," the spokesman said. "No official standstill agreement was presented today. This is the official first meeting between Dubai World and lenders."

Banks are now expected to form into a creditors committee head by a club of senior lenders including HSBC Holding PLC, Lloyds Banking Group PLC, Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC and Standard Chartered PLC.

Dubai has already turned to its wealthy neighbor Abu Dhabi for financial assistance this year. Abu Dhabi has pumped in about $25 billion in direct and indirect financing since February to help Dubai avoid defaulting.

Earlier Monday, the U.A.E.'s economy minister Sultan Mansouri said Dubai could receive more financial support from the country's federal government in 2010. "The way we see it, this is one economy," Mr. Mansouri in Abu Dhabi.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703344704574609783939358854.html?mod=googlenews_wsj


----------



## shagdash

TerryPop said:


> I have recently come into 1.5 million dirhams.
> 
> It has to be spent in Dubai on real estate.
> 
> Any suggestions on where/ what you would do with it?
> 
> All gags and amusing posts welcome too- but do have to d something with it...
> 
> :cheers: Cheers


Did you win the lottery? 

You can get Executive Towers 2 beds at that price now I think. Shame the whole area is still a construction zone though.


----------



## shagdash

^^

And maybe you should wait till late 2010 or even 2011, according to this:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/176...l-a-great-future-buy?source=article_lb_author


----------



## Alabri

encouraging good news
prices started from AED17.7m ($4.8m).:nuts: and Around 80 percent of the residences were sold off-plan!
Thanks for the news


----------



## Pleth

TerryPop said:


> I have recently come into 1.5 million dirhams.
> 
> It has to be spent in Dubai on real estate.
> 
> Any suggestions on where/ what you would do with it?
> 
> All gags and amusing posts welcome too- but do have to d something with it...
> 
> :cheers: Cheers


Wait 2 months till 1300 new apartments are being released in the Marina. And then go after all the panic sale there will be.


----------



## TerryPop

Wannaberich said:


> Wait a year then get a 5 bed Mirador at Arabian Ranches.


:rofl:


----------



## TerryPop

Mistermark said:


> I'd try to buy 2x 1-bed in the Marina, or if my budget didn't stretch that far, one in the Marina, one in JLT. Aim for apartments that are small in square footage relative to the number of bedrooms (since rent is based mainly on bedrooms, whereas purchase price and service charges are based on sq ft), in good mid-market buildings with low service charges, and good views.


Still, its looking quite difficult to find anywhere that will give a ten percent yield net.

Even 8 per cent after costs is pretty difficult to find.

I am going to offer the guys at the Marina Mall hotel 600k for a studio there- they want over a mill...

I agree smaller is better, and has so far proved higher yielding.... but still not that easy to find desperate sellers...


----------



## TerryPop

Mistermark said:


> I'd try to buy 2x 1-bed in the Marina, or if my budget didn't stretch that far, one in the Marina, one in JLT. Aim for apartments that are small in square footage relative to the number of bedrooms (since rent is based mainly on bedrooms, whereas purchase price and service charges are based on sq ft), in good mid-market buildings with low service charges, and good views.


Still, its looking quite difficult to find anywhere that will give a ten percent yield net.

Even 8 per cent after costs is pretty difficult to find.

I am going to offer the guys at the Marina Mall hotel 600k for a studio there- they want over a mill...

I agree smaller is better, and has so far proved higher yielding.... but still not that easy to find desperate sellers...


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*DFM makes $121m offer for Nasdaq Dubai*

Dubai Financial Market said on Tuesday it has made an offer to buy Nasdaq Dubai for $121m.

"Dubai Financial Market announced today that it has made an offer to Borse Dubai and the Nasdaq OMX Group enabling DFM to buy 100 percent of Nasdaq Dubai," DFM said in a statement on Dubai's bourse website.

The offer comprises $102m in cash and 40 million in DFM shares, the statement said.The timetable for the completion of the transaction is approximately 6 weeks, it said.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/576793-dfm-makes-121m-offer-for-nasdaq-dubai


----------



## Imre

Pleth said:


> Wait 2 months till 1300 new apartments are being released in the Marina. And then go after all the panic sale there will be.


Emaar already asked the final payments of the Marina Quays and Park Island, Zumurud final payment is only 15 % and they sold out around 50-60% only, what else will be done ?

We wont see many panic sales as we didnt see when was the handover of The Point and Royal Oceanic.

I expected some panic sales of the Executive Towers (Business Bay) , there was some really good deals but now the prices stabilising and difficult to find a good one below 1000 dhs/sqft, only few big units on the market. So nothing panic


----------



## Philippa C

Terry, as it's Christmas please buy a nice little studio for Shagdash so he'll have a vested interest in seraching out and posting articles about the positive outlook for Dubai property prices


----------



## peacesells

TerryPop said:


> Still, its looking quite difficult to find anywhere that will give a ten percent yield net.
> 
> Even 8 per cent after costs is pretty difficult to find.


Hence my suggestion to go spend at least some money in DSO - you can get a studio here easily for 250k and then lease it out for 35k per annum.


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> Hence my suggestion to go spend at least some money in DSO - you can get a studio here easily for 250k and then lease it out for 35k per annum.


Which building?get me one and I'll send you the money.


----------



## Imre

Wannaberich said:


> Which building?get me one and I'll send you the money.



I dont think so anything for 250K there , maybe in the International City.


----------



## Imre

*News Alert *

*Deutsche Messe postpones premiere of industrial tradeshows in Dubai until 2011*

December 22, 2009

Deutsche Messe is postponing the industrial trade fairs CeMAT MIDDLE EAST, Industrial Automation (IA) MIDDLE EAST and Motion, Drive & Automation (MDA) MIDDLE EAST – all originally schedu*led to take place in February 2010 – until 2011. 

Due to scheduling changes and a resulting overlap of topics, the Dubai World Trade Center is no longer able to accommodate the trade fairs at the originally planned time and location.

“In the eyes of Deutsche Messe, the United Arab Emirates, and particularly Dubai, continue to represent a key exhibition location in the medium and long term. After careful analysis, we have decided to postpone the debut of these tradeshows until 2011. There are topic overlaps at the exhibition venue which now make it impossible to stage our exhibitions within the original framework. We require the premium exhibition facility for our events in order to fulfill the needs of our customers and our preferred venue to hold this trade show would be The Dubai World Trade Centre,” explained Dr. Andreas Gruchow, Member of the Managing Board of Deutsche Messe.


----------



## Wannaberich

Imre said:


> I dont think so anything for 250K there , maybe in the International City.


If you're lucky and find a desperate seller you may get a Palace Towers 396sq ft studio on one of the lower floors for around 280ish but I can't see 250.
Then again for 280 you may be able to rent for 25-27k per year which is a good return.


----------



## shagdash

Philippa C said:


> Terry, as it's Christmas please buy a nice little studio for Shagdash so he'll have a vested interest in seraching out and posting articles about the positive outlook for Dubai property prices


:rofl:

or maybe you can wait till next christmas and buy me two.


----------



## Philippa C

shagdash said:


> :rofl:
> 
> or maybe you can wait till next christmas and buy me two.


If you get one this Christmas you've a whole year of positive thinking ahead of you


----------



## jacobdxb

TerryPop said:


> I have recently come into 1.5 million dirhams.
> 
> It has to be spent in Dubai on real estate.
> 
> Any suggestions on where/ what you would do with it?
> 
> All gags and amusing posts welcome too- but do have to d something with it...
> 
> :cheers: Cheers


---

I'd use them as a 30 % downpayment on a fully rented building in Berlin, Germany. The prices per sqft are ridiculously low (500 AED/sqft). Here you'd get a nett return of 8-10 % on the whole building, and you can finance the remaining 70 % at 3-5 % interest only.

eg: Building cost 5.000.000 AED (about 1 mill EUR)

rental income of 400.000 AED (worst case)

interest payment on mortgage of 3.500.000 AED = 175.000 AED (worst case at 5 % interest)

nett income: 225.000 AED

meaning your return on investment would be around: 225.000 / 1.500.000 AED = 15 % minimum.

best case: around 26,33 % return on investment per year...

extremely safe investment in my opinion, if you own the property for more than 10 years, you can also sell it taxfree.


----------



## shagdash

Philippa C said:


> If you get one this Christmas you've a whole year of positive thinking ahead of you


Here Philippa, just for you coz its Christmas.

Dubai property prices 'to rise 10pc in 2010'

http://www.tradearabia.com/news/newsdetails.asp?Sn=REAL&artid=172174

NOW can I get two next Christmas?


----------



## shagdash

jacobdxb said:


> ---
> 
> I'd use them as a 30 % downpayment on a fully rented building in Berlin, Germany. The prices per sqft are ridiculously low (500 AED/sqft). Here you'd get a nett return of 8-10 % on the whole building, and you can finance the remaining 70 % at 3-5 % interest only.
> 
> eg: Building cost 5.000.000 AED (about 1 mill EUR)
> 
> rental income of 400.000 AED (worst case)
> 
> interest payment on mortgage of 3.500.000 AED = 175.000 AED (worst case at 5 % interest)
> 
> nett income: 225.000 AED
> 
> meaning your return on investment would be around: 225.000 / 1.500.000 AED = 15 % minimum.
> 
> best case: around 26,33 % return on investment per year...
> 
> extremely safe investment in my opinion, if you own the property for more than 10 years, you can also sell it taxfree.


Hmm Jacob...

But he wants to invest only in Dubai - "fools rush in where angels fear to tread!"


----------



## Wannaberich

shagdash said:


> Here Philippa, just for you coz its Christmas.
> 
> Dubai property prices 'to rise 10pc in 2010'
> 
> http://www.tradearabia.com/news/newsdetails.asp?Sn=REAL&artid=172174
> 
> NOW can I get two next Christmas?


Reports like this where only one person is the contributor are a complete waste of time.Especially in the case of this guy whos trying to promote a development.
They may as well ring me and ask my opinion.


----------



## Philippa C

shagdash said:


> Here Philippa, just for you coz its Christmas.
> 
> Dubai property prices 'to rise 10pc in 2010'
> 
> http://www.tradearabia.com/news/newsdetails.asp?Sn=REAL&artid=172174
> 
> Great, keep them coming!
> 
> NOW can I get two next Christmas?


If it was up to me of course you could have 2 next year *but* 2 might be over budget by then Depends how generous Terry is feeling I guess.


----------



## shagdash

^^

Tell you what - I'll settle for a screening of "Love Actually" with the lovely, generous lady! Enough of all this property price talk for now!

PS - Umm...maybe u got mixed up classifying my gender.


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> Which building?get me one and I'll send you the money.


Send me the money first 

But seriously, they are there. I can get you an off-plan (meaning that the building is under contruction and will be delivered in 2010) for 200k and if I had cash in hand, I could get a ready one for 250k in a week or two depending on how badly I wanted it.

EDIT: Not in Palace Towers, that will probably be for 280-300k but you can still get 10% or more return if we assume a 400 sq ft place sold at 300k, rented at 40k net to owner (possible with 6 cheques) and charged AED 15 sqft maintenance for the year. I don't know how much the maintenance fees are but anything above that I assume to be daylight robbery and not worth paying.


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> Wait 2 months till 1300 new apartments are being released in the Marina. And then go after all the panic sale there will be.


As Imre pointed out, most apartments in the 1300 lot due for handover are already 90% paid. So I would not expect too much of a panic. Trident Grand Res is going to happen around 6 months and it has a bigger final payment so maybe some people ready to offload at original price and take profit on currency.

BTW, I see the dollar/dirham is going down against the GBP again. trading today at 5.8AED/£ :banana:


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> Send me the money first
> 
> But seriously, they are there. I can get you an off-plan (meaning that the building is under contruction and will be delivered in 2010) for 200k and if I had cash in hand, I could get a ready one for 250k in a week or two depending on how badly I wanted it.
> 
> EDIT: Not in Palace Towers, that will probably be for 280-300k but you can still get 10% or more return if we assume a 400 sq ft place sold at 300k, rented at 40k net to owner (possible with 6 cheques) and charged AED 15 sqft maintenance for the year. I don't know how much the maintenance fees are but anything above that I assume to be daylight robbery and not worth paying.


I would have to pay as much as 200k for off-plan?Wow thats expensive.
As for completed,the only studio I would consider buying at DSO would have to be at Palace.Any other building would be harder to rent.
By the way you would be very very lucky to get 40k for a 400sq ft studio in my opinion.Prob 28-30 is what you could expect.


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> I would have to pay as much as 200k for off-plan?Wow thats expensive.
> As for completed,the only studio I would consider buying at DSO would have to be at Palace.Any other building would be harder to rent.
> By the way you would be very very lucky to get 40k for a 400sq ft studio in my opinion.Prob 28-30 is what you could expect.


I think 40k is doable by mutliple cheques - at least 6.


----------



## gerald.d

Imre said:


> Emaar already asked the final payments of the Marina Quays and Park Island, Zumurud final payment is only 15 % and they sold out around 50-60% only, what else will be done ?
> 
> We wont see many panic sales as we didnt see when was the handover of The Point and Royal Oceanic.
> 
> I expected some panic sales of the Executive Towers (Business Bay) , there was some really good deals but now the prices stabilising and difficult to find a good one below 1000 dhs/sqft, only few big units on the market. So nothing panic


Rental asking prices for Executive Towers seem to be dropping very quickly.

2088 sq ft 3 beds that had asking rents of 170k a year just two weeks ago:

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...-town-burj-dubai-area-brand-new-huge-3-beds-/

are now being advertised for 135k.

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...ful-3-br-full-creek-view-2088-sqft-only-13-3/


----------



## Imre

gerald.d said:


> Rental asking prices for Executive Towers seem to be dropping very quickly.
> 
> 2088 sq ft 3 beds that had asking rents of 170k a year just two weeks ago:
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...-town-burj-dubai-area-brand-new-huge-3-beds-/
> 
> are now being advertised for 135k.
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...ful-3-br-full-creek-view-2088-sqft-only-13-3/


135k is good price if you are the tenant, otherwise not

Selling price for those apartments around 1.8-2m , so not a good rental income..


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> As Imre pointed out, most apartments in the 1300 lot due for handover are already 90% paid. So I would not expect too much of a panic. Trident Grand Res is going to happen around 6 months and it has a bigger final payment so maybe some people ready to offload at original price and take profit on currency.
> 
> BTW, I see the dollar/dirham is going down against the GBP again. trading today at 5.8AED/£ :banana:


I forgot the Marina Mall Hotel apartments and the Casa Del Mar or similar (not sure about the name ) but still dont know what is the status there , apartment or serviced apartment because I have never seen any adverts for it.

TGR final payment is 40 or 60 %?


----------



## Wannaberich

peacesells said:


> I think 40k is doable by mutliple cheques - at least 6.


hno:


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> BTW, I see the dollar/dirham is going down against the GBP again. trading today at 5.8AED/£ :banana:


This means that dollar/dirham is going UP against GBP and not DOWN.


----------



## True Blue

speculator said:


> This means that dollar/dirham is going UP against GBP and not DOWN.


It means the dollar is *strengthening* against the pound so the number needed to buy a pound is *going down*..


----------



## Pleth

Imre said:


> Emaar already asked the final payments of the Marina Quays and Park Island, Zumurud final payment is only 15 % and they sold out around 50-60% only, what else will be done ?
> 
> We wont see many panic sales as we didnt see when was the handover of The Point and Royal Oceanic.
> 
> I expected some panic sales of the Executive Towers (Business Bay) , there was some really good deals but now the prices stabilising and difficult to find a good one below 1000 dhs/sqft, only few big units on the market. So nothing panic


Interesting.
But what happens when all these owners think they can rent out their apartments and they find out that there simply aren't enough tennants anymore?
Here are so many empty apartments everywhere...


----------



## shagdash

gerald.d said:


> Rental asking prices for Executive Towers seem to be dropping very quickly.
> 
> 2088 sq ft 3 beds that had asking rents of 170k a year just two weeks ago:
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...-town-burj-dubai-area-brand-new-huge-3-beds-/
> 
> are now being advertised for 135k.
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...ful-3-br-full-creek-view-2088-sqft-only-13-3/


Salwan advertising ET 3 beds for 130k. Also a broker told me I can get one for 120k one cheque.


----------



## Mistermark

jacobdxb said:


> ---
> 
> I'd use them as a 30 % downpayment on a fully rented building in Berlin, Germany. The prices per sqft are ridiculously low (500 AED/sqft). Here you'd get a nett return of 8-10 % on the whole building, and you can finance the remaining 70 % at 3-5 % interest only.
> 
> eg: Building cost 5.000.000 AED (about 1 mill EUR)
> 
> rental income of 400.000 AED (worst case)
> 
> interest payment on mortgage of 3.500.000 AED = 175.000 AED (worst case at 5 % interest)
> 
> nett income: 225.000 AED
> 
> meaning your return on investment would be around: 225.000 / 1.500.000 AED = 15 % minimum.
> 
> best case: around 26,33 % return on investment per year...
> 
> extremely safe investment in my opinion, if you own the property for more than 10 years, you can also sell it taxfree.


I think this is a great idea if you're holding cash in a currency that isn't at or near a historically low point relative to the Euro (as is the case with Sterling). Also there are some great KG funds for people who want to invest in Berlin property via a hands-off vehicle. I have some money in one and will add to it once the exchange rate normalises (if it ever does...).


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> It means the dollar is *strengthening* against the pound so the number needed to buy a pound is *going down*..


Yes spot on. We got it there in the end.:righton:


----------



## jagmp

^^

Hope the trend continues.I can bring more rent home.:banana::cheers:


----------



## shagdash

Mistermark said:


> I think this is a great idea if you're holding cash in a currency that isn't at or near a historically low point relative to the Euro (as is the case with Sterling). Also there are some great KG funds for people who want to invest in Berlin property via a hands-off vehicle. I have some money in one and will add to it once the exchange rate normalises (if it ever does...).


It really is a good idea. Why doesn't someone package this and sell it as a derivative guaranteeing, say a 12% return and keeping 3% for their trouble?
Am sure there'll be quite a few takers on this board.


----------



## jacobdxb

...well, surprise, surprise, that's actually what I do for a living now... no point in waiting for Dubai to rebounce forever, when there's money lying on the streets of Berlin for the taking... ;-)


----------



## AppleMac

Guys this is a forum about property investment in *Dubai* - there is a separate forum for property in Germany here


----------



## speculator

jagmp said:


> ^^
> 
> Hope the trend continues.I can bring more rent home.:banana::cheers:


I also hope for more pounds to my foreign currency but I wouldn't hurry as the pound is heading for a major crash.


----------



## TerryPop

Mistermark said:


> I think this is a great idea if you're holding cash in a currency that isn't at or near a historically low point relative to the Euro (as is the case with Sterling). Also there are some great KG funds for people who want to invest in Berlin property via a hands-off vehicle. I have some money in one and will add to it once the exchange rate normalises (if it ever does...).


could one of you guys very kindly Pm me on this pls....not keen to becme a hands on landlord in Berlin, but those returns!


----------



## Philippa C

Pleth said:


> Interesting.
> But what happens when all these owners think they can rent out their apartments and they find out that there simply aren't enough tennants anymore?
> Here are so many empty apartments everywhere...


Maybe we'll see labour camps re-established in some of the towers!

Seriously, it may mean that more people can afford to live in newer and better accommodation. Less families crammed into tiny studios and people who are renting bedspaces might be able to afford their own room. People currently living in Sharjah and Ajman may be able to afford a nice unit in Dubai so they don't have to spend hours commuting. Good locations would still get a good but not exorbitant rent but, in general, more people can enjoy a better lifstyle. Hopefully, this will make Dubai more attractive as a place to live and more people will come here and the cycle starts all over again.....


----------



## Pleth

Philippa C said:


> Seriously, it may mean that more people can afford to live in newer and better accommodation. Less families crammed into tiny studios and people who are renting bedspaces might be able to afford their own room. People currently living in Sharjah and Ajman may be able to afford a nice unit in Dubai so they don't have to spend hours commuting. Good locations would still get a good but not exorbitant rent but, in general, more people can enjoy a better lifstyle. Hopefully, this will make Dubai more attractive as a place to live and more people will come here and the cycle starts all over again.....


Yes I agree, this will happen _after_ the rents come down in price. But in this forum people still seem think:

a) they can find tennants to rent out their apartments to, when the reality is that here are more apartments than ever - and fewer tennants than 1 or 2 years ago.
b) still think they can earn the high rent income even though 1000's of apartments are empty and for rent.

Also when you calculate your return, you need to take into consideration that it can easily take 3 - 6 months before you find a tennant.


----------



## sidxb

Pleth said:


> Interesting.
> But what happens when all these owners think they can rent out their apartments and they find out that there simply aren't enough tennants anymore?
> Here are so many empty apartments everywhere...


As for reality , it is not difficult to rent apartment provided its priced correctly. There are many available apartments , which is good for tenant as they have more choice but its incorrect impression that no apartments are renting nowadays. There are more empty apartments partly due to shrinking in job market but mainly due to huge developments like discovery gardens , international city coming in market during 2008 and making a difference.

As per my first hand experience , I rented my studio around end November for 42,000 / 4 cheques within 3 days of placing an ad on dubizzle. I showed it to 5 prospective tenants and they meticulously saw every detail of apartment like direction of sunrise , size of windows, quality of sanitaryware , quality of walls , distance to walk from designated parking etc etc. I believe it is much better market now compared to 2007-8 when no one would show you the apartment in detail. You either take it immediately or it would go to next tenant ready with cash. 

As long as you can see traffic on Dubai-Sharjah highway , there would be takers and I believe current market is more suitable for long term development of Dubai compared to insane market of 2008. :cheers:


----------



## AppleMac

Pleth said:


> Also when you calculate your return, you need to take into consideration that it can easily take 3 - 6 months before you find a tennant.


only if you price it wrong - which applies everywhere


----------



## peacesells

AppleMac said:


> only if you price it wrong - which applies everywhere


Exactly. People here still want at least 10% on their overpriced apartments they bought in 2007-2008 and they want it all in one cheque from a nice western family. When they fail, they whine that there's no tenants - there's plenty, just make sure you know what your apartment is really worth and that tenants don't care if your maintenance fees are high or your mortgage payments are not covered.


----------



## speculator

My experience is the also positive. If the property is lovely and in a nice location then you shouldn't have any problems as long as you price realistically. Rents in comparison to other markets are still good and the tenant demand is present.


----------



## HateTorch

peacesells said:


> -- snip --- they whine that there's no tenants - there's plenty, just make sure you know what your apartment is really worth and that tenants don't care if your maintenance fees are high or your mortgage payments are not covered.


Talking about rent, I am a tenant at Marina Heights at MarinaWalk. I was there for coming 3 years now... I would like to renew early next year.
From tenant's PoV, what would be the 1BR yearly rent optimistically (1 cheque) ?
AED90,000 ?


----------



## peacesells

HateTorch said:


> Talking about rent, I am a tenant at Marina Heights at MarinaWalk. I was there for coming 3 years now... I would like to renew early next year.
> From tenant's PoV, what would be the yearly rent optimistically (1 cheque) ?


What is the size of your apartment? What sort of rents are being offerred for similar apartments in your building and in nearby buildings? How is your relationship with the owner? Is it furnished or unfurnished? How good are you at negotiating and bluffing? How big is your security deposit? Define 'early next year'. Yup, that's about all I need to know before I can tell ya 

EDIT: Ok so it's a 1 bed in Marina Heights. There's a bunch of them on Dubizzle for 80k negotiable. I'd say you should tell him you will stay for 65k for one cheque and negotiate upto 75k if need be. That is if you're on good terms with the owner, it makes a big difference these days IMO.


----------



## HateTorch

peacesells said:


> What is the size of your apartment?
> - 640sqr feet ??, standard 1BR at Heights.
> What sort of rents are being offerred for similar apartments in your building and in nearby buildings?
> - I do not know. According to Recep, takeup rate is high. 90K is the lowest they know.
> How is your relationship with the owner?
> Is it furnished or unfurnished?
> - already furnished with my furniture ...
> How good are you at negotiating and bluffing?
> - I can't bluff. I have good relationship with landlord (a dubai local), so i do not want to burn this.
> How big is your security deposit?
> - 5K, that was 2yrs+ back
> Define 'early next year'.
> - April 2010.
> 
> 65K-80K are those at MarinaPearl, Wave, Diamond-2, DEC etc, I think ...
> .


He doesn't know that I like to continue staying there. If he reads this, he knows now :-(
Advice appreciated..


----------



## peacesells

Here's one for 80k furnished. 

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...tiful-1-bedroom-full-furnished-in-marina-hei/


----------



## baba toto

baba toto said:


> This project should be moved to the "ON HOLD" section.


If you can obtain a copy of a "RERA No Objection Certificate" from the developer then you can lodge a case against the developer at RERA on the basis of "Developer failed to start construction within 6 months of receiving RERAs NOC.".......


----------



## Wannaberich

speculator said:


> My experience is the also positive. If the property is lovely and in a nice location then you shouldn't have any problems as long as you price realistically. .


Price realistically meaning pricing below the standard rate for that area otherwise expect to wait a while.


----------



## jagmp

I have just received breakdown of service charges for my Marina Diamond property.In the second year running they have charged me for 1 dhs per sft for gas and 350 dhs per month for AC.

I thought gas and AC charges are paid by tenant.How can i pass on this charges to tenant? I have already paid it to the developer.


----------



## HateTorch

--


----------



## speculator

Wannaberich said:


> Price realistically meaning pricing below the standard rate for that area otherwise expect to wait a while.


NO what I mean by price realistically is to price realistically and not ask or expect same rents as say 2006/07.

i.e 2 bed apt in nice building nice location say 120k and not ask for 190k

i.e 1 bed apt nice building nice location say 90k and not ask for 130k

Thats the reality. yes it may get worse but rents would need to come down heaps to match say the UK.


----------



## jagmp

Can somebody please tell me are AC charges included in service charges in all the buildings.Tenants do not pay AC charges at all.

I have just come to know our developer in Icon Tower in JLT has also said AC charges will remain included in the service charges because PDC said it is not possible to charge individual apartment.

As it is rents are coming down and landlords are paying heavy service charges. On top of that AC and gas charges are passed on to them.How fair is this? Is there any way out?


----------



## Wannaberich

speculator said:


> NO what I mean by price realistically is to price realistically and not ask or expect same rents as say 2006/07.
> 
> i.e 2 bed apt in nice building nice location say 120k and not ask for 190k
> 
> i.e 1 bed apt nice building nice location say 90k and not ask for 130k
> 
> Thats the reality. yes it may get worse but rents would need to come down heaps to match say the UK.


What I meant is that to rent your unit quickly you need to price below current market value.


----------



## Wannaberich

*Dubai forecast to be a 2010 holiday hotspot*
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/576970-dubai-forecast-to-be-a-2010-holiday-hotspot


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> What I meant is that to rent your unit quickly you need to price below current market value.


Well, it's always been like that and always will be. Also, you should always consider the time your apartment stays empty - generally, you lose out if you price it at market or above market rate in the end because your apartment stays vacant and that's potential revenue down the drain.


----------



## peacesells

jagmp said:


> Can somebody please tell me are AC charges included in service charges in all the buildings.Tenants do not pay AC charges at all.
> 
> I have just come to know our developer in Icon Tower in JLT has also said AC charges will remain included in the service charges because PDC said it is not possible to charge individual apartment.
> 
> As it is rents are coming down and landlords are paying heavy service charges. On top of that AC and gas charges are passed on to them.How fair is this? Is there any way out?


Yes, next time you make sure to include them in your rental contract as tenant's responsibility. You can't force a tenant to pay these fees if they aren't part of the rental agreement and frankly, IMO, it's your problem until the current tenancy contract runs out.


----------



## HateTorch

jagmp said:


> Can somebody please tell me are AC charges included in service charges in all the buildings.Tenants do not pay AC charges at all.
> 
> I have just come to know our developer in Icon Tower in JLT has also said AC charges will remain included in the service charges because PDC said it is not possible to charge individual apartment.
> 
> As it is rents are coming down and landlords are paying heavy service charges. On top of that AC and gas charges are passed on to them.How fair is this? Is there any way out?


Are AC charges refering to the building's centralised aircon for teh corridors ? If so, why should a tenant pay for this ? I believe this is part of the service charge (including other building-level maintanence) paid by the owner yearly. My landlord has no such breakdown in his service charge bill ; probably all lumped together to avoid questions.
But I do pay for DEWA, electricity (including the ac in my aprt) that I consume. Gas too, since I use them.

But your notion of passing the service charge to the tenant just because the rent is down is uncalled for. Did you rant when your rents are high ??


----------



## True Blue

peacesells said:


> Yes, next time you make sure to include them in your rental contract as tenant's responsibility. *You can't force a tenant to pay these fees if they aren't part of the rental agreement *and frankly, IMO, it's your problem until the current tenancy contract runs out.


I disagree! 

Rera say it is the tenant responsibility unless otherwise agreed. So the onus is on the tenant not the landlord.

_"Unless otherwise agreed in the rental agreement the lessee should bear all taxes and other fees of the premise." _


And the link; http://www.rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/rentals/responsibility.do?lang=0

jagmp, you should contact the tenant and explain that you forgot to apply these charges and advise him/her of the amount they owe.

FYI, I notify my tenants in the contract, that AC charges are provisional for the year. Final charges are determined at the end of the year and adjusted if necessary.


----------



## sidxb

HateTorch said:


> Are AC charges refering to the building's centralised aircon for teh corridors ? If so...


I think he was referring to AC charges of apartment and not of common areas. In JLT since its done through district cooling , billing is still confusing. 
For cooling usage WITHIN apartment , obviously tenant should pay


----------



## jagmp

HateTorch said:


> Are AC charges refering to the building's centralised aircon for teh corridors ? If so, why should a tenant pay for this ? I believe this is part of the service charge (including other building-level maintanence) paid by the owner yearly. My landlord has no such breakdown in his service charge bill ; probably all lumped together to avoid questions.
> But I do pay for DEWA, electricity (including the ac in my aprt) that I consume. Gas too, since I use them.
> 
> But your notion of passing the service charge to the tenant* just because the rent is down is uncalled for. Did you rant when your rents are high *??


Here i am talking about gas and aircondition charges used by tenant.350 dhs per month for AC and 60 dhs for gas per month for 1br apt seems too much.I was told in the first year it is paid by the landlord because PDC installation charges are included and can not be separated.In the second year it will be paid by the tenant.

I never meant to pass service charges to the tenant. I have specifically mentioned AC and gas charges.Here your comment was uncalled for.


----------



## jagmp

True Blue said:


> I disagree!
> 
> Rera say it is the tenant responsibility unless otherwise agreed. So the onus is on the tenant not the landlord.
> 
> _"Unless otherwise agreed in the rental agreement the lessee should bear all taxes and other fees of the premise." _
> 
> 
> And the link; http://www.rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/rentals/responsibility.do?lang=0
> 
> jagmp, you should contact the tenant and explain that you forgot to apply these charges and advise him/her of the amount they owe.
> 
> FYI, I notify my tenants in the contract, that AC charges are provisional for the year. Final charges are determined at the end of the year and adjusted if necessary.


Thanks TB. i will do the needful.


----------



## dubaimat

gerald.d said:


> Look up the word "rhetorical".
> 
> In the meantime, thanks for making the point for me.


I'm not making any point for you. 
There is no transparency about any numbers in Dubai at all, I highly doubt that the ones provided to GN are accurate, seems like you are the ONE source for realistic numbers. I look forward to read them posted here at SSC :cheers:


----------



## Philippa C

gerald.d said:


> Thanks for proving my point.
> 
> Ok then. I'll line someone up to do it for you. How much is it worth to take care of all the bother for you?


There are several companies that can arrange freezone visas (for 3 years) and will do all the legwork so if people want to come to Dubai to relax and spend money, using one of these companies is not a big deal.


----------



## TerryPop

High Times said:


> Terry.
> 
> Trying to get a realistic opinion in this forum is an impossible task.
> 
> The majority of posters are investors at various levels and are desperate to see Dubai succeed (defined by capital values & rental income increase), any realistic discussion is treated as negativity and dismissed.
> 
> Remember first timer? Previously banned for his negativity. The forum ironically mirroring Dubai’s treatment of those not conforming to the great cause in this instance. Probably the most accurate poster of all, and yet bullied away by the usual Dubai cheerleaders.
> 
> Living in Dubai will give you a certain tainted perspective for many reasons, lack of a free press, lack of objectivity, lack of how the World sees Dubai, heatstroke to the brain and the inability to understand that the people in charge of Dubai are unable to implement a coherent recovery strategy and are just relying on a rich neighbour for handouts regardless of the future ramifications of this action.
> 
> The Arab culture is not to discuss negative news or even speak of it. “heads in the sand”.
> 
> As this is a construction based forum many who frequent it are in the construction industry. This is great for learning just how these buildings are created and implemented.
> 
> However, construction and real estate is driven by economic factors. The whole point of skyscrapers is about maximising available floorspace of a small footprint to increase profitability (an economic objective).
> 
> My point is that it is economics that dictate real estate prices not construction standards, techniques and design elements.
> 
> In my view “build it and they will come” has failed. A new strategy needs to be developed and nothing is happening. Until Dubai decides to create a sustainable model, real estate prices aren’t going much above inflation in the medium term.
> 
> As more and more developments complete and hand over supply levels will balloon, demand will stay static at best. People from many sectors are still leaving Dubai, this will continue throughout 2010.
> 
> 2010 -2012 we will see a flight to quality in Dubai.



Ht I really appreciate your posts and pretty much concur- without a new angle, without some real and well thought out strategy, I think this could be long haul stagnation.

I also believe (having seen how they handled the recent standstill) that there is no coherent strategy. 

There are all these wishy washy suggestions that all is being controlled and guided, but I very much doubt it is anything of substance.

I think with some incentives and the right marketing things could be turned around slowly, so all eyes on a new management policy


----------



## TerryPop

Watching some friends who invested in JLT office space- it is a really poorly managed affair (as an example).

Offices are sitting empty in JLT, yet under the DMCC it is not that easy to get a license to operate, so the very few possible tenants are pushed away.

Furthermore advertised rental prices are getting complaints of being too cheap- I heard RERA asked one agent what he was doing advertising at 75 dhms/ft2.

The market rate is even cheaper then this.... sooo really we are in a state of denial and under a management that has not yet grasped current market conditions.

If you don't get it, you can't fix it.

I was one of Dubai's biggest supporter so I do hope to see a revival.


----------



## Richard Head

gerald.d said:


> The number of people who give a shit about getting a residency visa with their property is minimal compared to the number of people living and working here


^^ This. 

Dubai will not survive and thrive on the basis of a few dodgy Iranian "businessmen" who don't need to work for a living and can sit back and relax away from the stresses of Tehran if only the UAE government would give them a permanent visa. It will grow on the basis of hundreds of thousands of expats who do, and who always will, contribute to the economy in meaningful and honest ways, and who want to be here for the same fundamental reasons that Dubai has attracted people for the last 20 - 30 years, which I will not repeat yet again as everyone knows what they are. Hint - those reasons were there before the real estate boom, and they will be there for the foreseeable future. 

HT - a pseudo intellectual who uses words like "ergo" in his posts but doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're". You used to occasionally make sense, but whatever tiny shred of credibility you had left was toast as soon as you pointed out that First Timer was one of the best posters on here, or whatever you said. FFS - seriously? :nuts:

Dubaimat - you're not even good at trollling, stop wasting your time and ours.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think some people are forgetting that many invested in Dubai for holiday home purposes where they can go and live in their own home for 3 months during the winter and so on. Thousands upon thousands of units were sold in Spain for this reason alone. There is a huge market for holiday homes in the sun. Why buy a unit in Dubai now if it comes with all the hassles in order to use it, better to buy in Spain, Cyprus or Italy etc. The visa is certainly a big factor for lack of sales in Dubai.


----------



## Mistermark

gerald.d said:


> On the contrary. It's highly accurate.
> 
> The number of people who give a shit about getting a residency visa with their property is minimal compared to the number of people living and working here.
> 
> And if they really care about getting a residency visa, then they can get one for around 25,000AED a year. Which for most of them, is probably less than the service charge on their property.
> 
> The property boom in Dubai had virtually nothing to do with a promise of getting visas with properties, and the property crash had nothing to do with the realisation that it was an empty promise.
> 
> Again - how many freehold properties are there in Dubai?


I disagree with you about residency visas being unimportant. Yes, there are workarounds that enable a person to live in Dubai without working, provided they are able to support themselves. But they rely on loopholes - and those can be closed at any time. So anyone who moves to Dubai via that route knows they could be thrown out at any time. This limits the extent to which they can take the risk to make their lives fully Dubai-based, including the proportion of their wealth that they move to the emirate, the amount they choose to invest in a home there and also whether they move their families there.

There are many other countries that have positioned themselves as tax havens, in the sense that they don't levy direct income tax, or where the rate is very low, which give genuine security of residence. Dubai could compete with them, having on its side the fact that it is well located for people of Indian, Middle Eastern, Russian and Chinese origins - areas of the world that have gained in recent years in terms of their proportion of the world's wealth.

There's another reason why residency visas matter: trust. When a high net worth individual decides where to base themselves, and where to invest their money, a crucial factor is whether they trust those running the country. Sheikh Mo cannot distance himself from the fact that master developers owned or part-owned by himself and his family set the templates for the sale and purchase agreements issued for projects whose developers promised residency visas. Failing to deliver what was offered undermines investor confidence. Taken on top of the obvious impotence of RERA and the court system, it is difficult to see Dubai as a good place to invest money or make a life.

That said, this could be beneficial, in the medium term, for those of us who already own property in Dubai, because the pointers indicate that there will be no further development for some years, limiting supply to what's already under construction. It's just a shame that our properties will only be rental propositions for the foreseeable future, because the resale market will be limited due to the lack of people wanting to make a long-term commitment to the emirate, for the reasons outlined.


----------



## peacesells

Mistermark said:


> I disagree with you about residency visas being unimportant. Yes, there are workarounds that enable a person to live in Dubai without working, provided they are able to support themselves. But they rely on loopholes - and those can be closed at any time. So anyone who moves to Dubai via that route knows they could be thrown out at any time. This limits the extent to which they can take the risk to make their lives fully Dubai-based, including the proportion of their wealth that they move to the emirate, the amount they choose to invest in a home there and also whether they move their families there.
> 
> There are many other countries that have positioned themselves as tax havens, in the sense that they don't levy direct income tax, or where the rate is very low, which give genuine security of residence. Dubai could compete with them, having on its side the fact that it is well located for people of Indian, Middle Eastern, Russian and Chinese origins - areas of the world that have gained in recent years in terms of their proportion of the world's wealth.
> 
> There's another reason why residency visas matter: trust. When a high net worth individual decides where to base themselves, and where to invest their money, a crucial factor is whether they trust those running the country. Sheikh Mo cannot distance himself from the fact that master developers owned or part-owned by himself and his family set the templates for the sale and purchase agreements issued for projects whose developers promised residency visas. Failing to deliver what was offered undermines investor confidence. Taken on top of the obvious impotence of RERA and the court system, it is difficult to see Dubai as a good place to invest money or make a life.
> 
> That said, this could be beneficial, in the medium term, for those of us who already own property in Dubai, because the pointers indicate that there will be no further development for some years, limiting supply to what's already under construction. It's just a shame that our properties will only be rental propositions for the foreseeable future, because the resale market will be limited due to the lack of people wanting to make a long-term commitment to the emirate, for the reasons outlined.


This above is the truth. Sorry guys, if you think residence visa isn't an important (but far from only) piece of the puzzle that is the UAE real estate, you should definitely hang out with more property buyers. I'd say as much as 20% of property was bought with visa being a prime motivator. That's a hell of a lot of property. 

Also, if you think your average non-resident (or even a Dubai resident) actually knows about those companies that open visa for you by setting up a dud company in a freezone OR think 10k a year is a reasonable sum of money to pay for said visa, you should SERIOUSLY consider talking to more property buyers (or even residents for that matter). While it is a viable alternative for a few, it is far from being the same thing. 

At the end of the day though, we're all just speculating and it would be great to see a comprehensive study so we can settle this debate.


----------



## Imre

williamX said:


> I fully agree with HT about resident visas. I know small group (~15 ppl) of investors from Russia who is very dissapointed about cancellation of Res. visas in Dubai.
> We bought appartments in Dubai to enjoy 5-6 months in year in Dubai, we don't need to work, we want to enjoy, to spend money, to buy yachts, cars, without Res visas it's difficult and we don't want any headache with freezone company, we don't want to bother ourselves by this stupid things.
> Dubai loosing a lot of money without people like us - because we spending a lot and had plans to invest much more. Now all we planned to invest in Dubai we will spend it in Europe, to buy UK or other European properties, there we can get EU passports within 3-4years. In longterm EU investments better but anyway we would spend this money in UAE if there was guaranteed Resident Visas for investors. Europe it's not a place to live longtime - it's boring to live there, it's place to come sometimes and enjoy. Dubai have special lifestyle - it's very comfort city, where most of people would spend longtime.


I agree with you.

As I posted before , I met with someone in Dubai from Europe , they have unlimited money and wanted to invest around 3-5 million euro in Dubai but because of the visa thing they rather invested in Monaco last month.

I told them this freezone company thing but they were just laughing and said if there is no trust why should they invest a single euro here, many other places they can buy anything without any headache.


----------



## shagdash

gerald.d said:


> The property boom in Dubai had virtually nothing to do with a promise of getting visas with properties, and the property crash had nothing to do with the realisation that it was an empty promise.


So apart from easily available liquidity what drove the property boom in Dubai? And what led to the crash?


----------



## shagdash

dubaimat said:


> ^^which still shows that you know nothing and don't understand anything, for your kind information
> 
> http://arabianmoney.net/2009/02/05/dubai-only-has-18210-freehold-properties/


Can't be as low as 18210 freehold units. 
There must be at least 6 units per floor. Considering an average 25 floor building, that's 150 units per building. There are 200 buildings in the Marina alone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Marina). That's 30,000 units for you right there.
And then there are all those units in JLT, Greens, Downtown etc. Then add the villas.
Definitely something fishy about the 18210 number.
Does anyone have more accurate stats?


----------



## peacesells

shagdash said:


> Can't be as low as 18210 freehold units.
> There must be at least 6 units per floor. Considering an average 25 floor building, that's 150 units per building. There are 200 buildings in the Marina alone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Marina). That's 30,000 units for you right there.
> And then there are all those units in JLT, Greens, Downtown etc. Then add the villas.
> Definitely something fishy about the 18210 number.
> Does anyone have more accurate stats?


That number is basically all registered properties with title deeds (hence in their 'system') and we all know there's plenty out there that don't have it yet.


----------



## High Times

gerald.d said:


> On the contrary. It's highly accurate.





gerald.d said:


> The number of people who give a shit about getting a residency visa with their property is minimal compared to the number of people living and working here.


Well reading down through the last page I’d say that’s a resounding *YES* that the Visa issue is important. Your view is the overwhelming minority, so that’s yet another *FAIL* for you to add to the long list I’m afraid Gerald. You must be getting used to it by now I guess. 

*Stick to taking pictures chap.*

It doesn’t matter how many times you reply to a post with “yes thanks for making my point for me” you are still wrong. You sound like a child who constantly replies with the same meaningless drivel “whatever, whatever, whatever”. 

If after reading everyone’s comments regarding the Visa issue you still cant see that you are wrong then all you are is a troll with a camera. Picking arguments for the sake of it and not being man enough to admit when you are quite simply wrong.





Richard Head said:


> HT - a pseudo intellectual who uses words like "ergo" in his posts but doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're". You used to occasionally make sense, but whatever tiny shred of credibility you had left was toast as soon as you pointed out that First Timer was one of the best posters on here, or whatever you said. FFS - seriously?


Well done Dick, if all you can manage is personal insults and ridiculing my dyslexia then congratulations this must make you feel very proud. I have been dyslexic all my life and this has been discussed in the forum previously so I am not choosing to make this up now it’s a fact. One I have leaned to live with, but a fact none the less. 

I never said first timer was the best poster on here. That’s a very childish comment and tells me a lot about you in that you think it’s a contest. All I said was he was the most accurate in the context of discussing Dubai’s future debt problems *“before they happened”.*

I’m glad you have found at least some of my posts to make sense or be of interest. Unfortunately I cant reciprocate as none of your posts have provided any insight whatsoever. 

Funny name though, well done. Was that Mum or Dad ?


----------



## iamici

Ok so to extend my 30 day tourist visa I must >

1. Go to Oman.

I would like to do this as quick as possible as cheap as possible. Which airline should I checkout ??? How long is the flight??????


2. Buy a Free Trade Zone Visa . 

How does that work ???????

Is the dummy company, a dodgy manoevre ?????????

Whats that cost ????????


I bought my place with the intent to use it for summer holidays and the restriction from 60 days to 30 days makes me feel like a fool. 

Whilst what I spent was not too much, the way the developer behaves and acts being 2 years late with delivery makes me feel more of a fool. 

However, I m hoping they will see the light and reinstate the 60 days or give 90 days to us europeans, like those malaysians, macau, hong kongies do.


----------



## Richard Head

High Times said:


> Well reading down through the last page I’d say that’s a resounding *YES* that the Visa issue is important. Your view is the overwhelming minority, so that’s yet another *FAIL* for you to add to the long list I’m afraid Gerald. You must be getting used to it by now I guess.
> 
> *Stick to taking pictures chap.*
> 
> It doesn’t matter how many times you reply to a post with “yes thanks for making my point for me” you are still wrong. You sound like a child who constantly replies with the same meaningless drivel “whatever, whatever, whatever”.
> 
> If after reading everyone’s comments regarding the Visa issue you still cant see that you are wrong then all you are is a troll with a camera. Picking arguments for the sake of it and not being man enough to admit when you are quite simply wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well done Dick, if all you can manage is personal insults and ridiculing my dyslexia then congratulations this must make you feel very proud. I have been dyslexic all my life and this has been discussed in the forum previously so I am not choosing to make this up now it’s a fact. One I have leaned to live with, but a fact none the less.
> 
> I never said first timer was the best poster on here. That’s a very childish comment and tells me a lot about you in that you think it’s a contest. All I said was he was the most accurate in the context of discussing Dubai’s future debt problems *“before they happened”.*
> 
> I’m glad you have found at least some of my posts to make sense or be of interest. Unfortunately I cant reciprocate as none of your posts have provided any insight whatsoever.
> 
> Funny name though, well done. Was that Mum or Dad ?


Bottom line HT - you think First Timer was an accurate poster, but Gerald is a "troll with a camera". I think that pretty much says it all, you rate people entirely on the basis of whether their opinions are consistent with yours or not.

Reality check - First Timer was an obvious troll who was rightly banned. Gerald contributes more constructive content to this forum than you could ever dream of, and i'm not just referring to his amazing photography. You are the one constantly confusing facts with opinions, and applying your tone of blatant arrogance and superiority to anyone who dares to disagree with you.

I'm sorry you have not found any of my posts insightful, but then i'm like everybody else here, who either has to agree with you or be ridiculed. If I had as much time on my hands as you do I could trawl the internet and find "facts" to support pretty much any opinion on any topic. But then as we all know, opinions are like assholes.

Anyway, back to topic. Whilst clearly there will be people put off by the visa issue, I believe they are a tiny minority compared with the huge majority of normal people who will be here on an employee-sponsored residence visa, and will need a place to live. This is certainly the case now and I can't think of any reason why that would change. So yeah, in the overall scheme of things it's a minor downside, certainly not a showstopper in the long-term success of Dubai.


----------



## AltinD

Whoever is caught talking about how important is the investor visa for them ... and also talks about rental prices potentials, will be banned.

Can't have them both :laugh:


----------



## Porcello

iamici said:


> Ok so to extend my 30 day tourist visa I must >
> 
> 1. Go to Oman.
> 
> I would like to do this as quick as possible as cheap as possible. Which airline should I checkout ??? How long is the flight??????


Just go by car. A round trip will take around 3 hours and cost you 150 AED of petrol.


----------



## gerald.d

High Times said:


> Well reading down through the last page I’d say that’s a resounding *YES* that the Visa issue is important. Your view is the overwhelming minority, so that’s yet another *FAIL* for you to add to the long list I’m afraid Gerald. You must be getting used to it by now I guess.


Except it's not resounding at all. And this thread, by it's very nature, is not even remotely representative of opinions on what is being discussed.

This is what you said at the start of this discussion:


You said:


> he only way the UK can fail is if all the tax payers up and leave. Then you would see your doomsday scenario of a full blown collapse.
> 
> WAKE UP it wont happen, where are they all going to go?
> DUBAI ?.
> No, they cant get a visa.


And like I said right at the start. Yes they can.

peacesells mentioned that in his view, 20% of property was bought with visas being the prime motivator. To me, this sounds like a fairly reasonable estimate.

Where I disagree with him though is his view that it represents "a hell of a lot of property." It really doesn't. Hence my original comment:




me said:


> I genuinely don't get this visa fixation. The percentage of the population here who would actually need a visa from property ownership is surely very low?
> 
> The UAE's population grew enormously over the years without any foreign property ownership and associated property visas. I genuinely can't be bothered to look up the numbers in detail and find the full history (it is Christmas Day, after all), but the first link I found gave figures of 288,000 in 1975 to 1,380,000 in 1998. It's now around 4.5 million I think?
> 
> Out of that 4.5 million, what proportion do you think actually need a property visa?
> 
> The perspective of this section of the forum, and this thread in particular, is of course massively biased towards those who have invested in Dubai. And it's only natural that a proportion of those investors will be pissed off that promises have been broken.
> 
> But the property market and economy here have never been driven by the need for property owners to have residency visas. Never will be, either.


----------



## gerald.d

iamici said:


> Ok so to extend my 30 day tourist visa I must >
> 
> 1. Go to Oman.
> 
> I would like to do this as quick as possible as cheap as possible. Which airline should I checkout ??? How long is the flight??????


You don't have to go to Oman. Depending on how busy things are, flights to other destinations (particularly those served by Air Arabia, Fly Dubai, or Jazeera) are often cheaper.


> 2. Buy a Free Trade Zone Visa .
> 
> How does that work ???????
> 
> Is the dummy company, a dodgy manoevre ?????????
> 
> Whats that cost ????????


It's a very simple process. There are countless companies who advertise in the local news papers every single day of the week who will do pretty much all the leg-work for you.

There's nothing dodgy about it at all. Not sure what the costs would be these days, but when I did it, it was around 38,000 AED for the initial year, and 20-25,000 AED for subsequent renewals. That got me two 3-year residency visas.


----------



## gerald.d

Porcello said:


> Just go by car. A round trip will take around 3 hours and cost you 150 AED of petrol.


Actually, this raises an interesting point.

You can't drive here on an international driving licence if you have a residency visa. Once you've got residency, you can only drive on a local licence.

If this "survey" is followed through (often the way things get introduced here by the way - get a newspaper to run a survey that shows the people want something changed, and then change it saying you're fulfilling the will of the people) - http://www.arabianbusiness.com/571214-over-40-support-driving-licence-test-for-all-expats - then if you intend to drive here on your visits, trust me - you won't _want_ to have a residency visa.


----------



## Richard Head

gerald.d said:


> peacesells mentioned that in his view, 20% of property was bought with visas being the prime motivator. To me, this sounds like a fairly reasonable estimate.


Gerald, even an estimate of 20% seems a little on the high side to me. The main categories of people for whom this would be the prime motivator would be people who are wealthy enough not to work, or are retired, or are close to retirement and would like to stay when they retire and their employer cancels their residency. And finally those that would like a second home here with the opportunity to stay in it for extended periods. Have I missed any other categories that would represent significant numbers? 

Compared against the regular working expat community who would buy, I would be surprised if these people represent much more than 5%. Obviously that's just a guess, but 20% does seem like a large proportion to me...........


----------



## gerald.d

You could well be right, and I think your assessment of the main categories of individuals who would find themselves in this position is pretty comprehensive.

I simply didn't see any need to reject the 20% estimate because it totally supports the original premise.

I do wonder though what the reaction of these groups would be when, if they actually did get their promised visa, it suddenly dawned on them that they wouldn't be able to drive in the country until they'd gone through the "experience" of taking lessons and a test here. I feel sorry for those in the "holiday home and want to visit for a couple of months a year" category.


----------



## noir-dresses

gerald.d said:


> You could well be right, and I think your assessment of the main categories of individuals who would find themselves in this position is pretty comprehensive.
> 
> I simply didn't see any need to reject the 20% estimate because it totally supports the original premise.
> 
> I do wonder though what the reaction of these groups would be when, if they actually did get their promised visa, it suddenly dawned on them that they wouldn't be able to drive in the country until they'd gone through the "experience" of taking lessons and a test here. I feel sorry for those in the "holiday home and want to visit for a couple of months a year" category.


Talking about feeling sorry for the holiday home owner's. The last time I came to Dubai I wanted to rent a car. I entered the UAE with my Canadian passport, but could'nt rent a car because I only brought my Croatian driver's licience, forgot my Canadian licience, but still had my other passport.


----------



## gerald.d

Are you saying that you couldn't rent a car - not because you had only your Croatian licence on you, but because you had entered the country on your Canadian passport? i.e. If you'd entered the country on your Croatian passport, you'd have been able to rent a car?

Or is it simply that you're not allowed to rent a car in Dubai if you only hold a Croatian driving licence?


----------



## Porcello

gerald.d said:


> Actually, this raises an interesting point.
> 
> You can't drive here on an international driving licence if you have a residency visa. Once you've got residency, you can only drive on a local licence.
> 
> If this "survey" is followed through (often the way things get introduced here by the way - get a newspaper to run a survey that shows the people want something changed, and then change it saying you're fulfilling the will of the people) - http://www.arabianbusiness.com/571214-over-40-support-driving-licence-test-for-all-expats - then if you intend to drive here on your visits, trust me - you won't _want_ to have a residency visa.


But if you have a residence visa you can pay 150 AED and get a local license (at least for the nationalities allowed to exchange their license). So, this cannot be used to support your argument on residence visa.


----------



## peacesells

Richard Head said:


> Gerald, even an estimate of 20% seems a little on the high side to me. The main categories of people for whom this would be the prime motivator would be people who are wealthy enough not to work, or are retired, or are close to retirement and would like to stay when they retire and their employer cancels their residency. And finally those that would like a second home here with the opportunity to stay in it for extended periods. Have I missed any other categories that would represent significant numbers?
> 
> Compared against the regular working expat community who would buy, I would be surprised if these people represent much more than 5%. Obviously that's just a guess, but 20% does seem like a large proportion to me...........



The 20% that I'm talking about are made up of Russians, Kazakhs, Iranians, Indians, Pakistanis and others who bought these properties with spare money from business or life savings to a) hide this money from the tax man, b) have a place where they come and visit any time of the year without a hassle, c) have a place where they can come to in case shit hits the fan in their countries and d) have a place for their children/grandchildren to live and study. All options are viable if they have unrestricted access (i.e. a visa) and are no longer there. Plus you have the rich Europeans/Arabs who bought property for retirement. This is based solely on my 6 years of dealing with UAE property buyers on an almost-daily basis.

If you think 20% isn't a significant amount, consider that if there is a 20% fall in demand, in theory, a 20% drop in prices will follow. It's a large drop no matter what we're talking but in property, it is huge and VERY significant.


----------



## Mistermark

gerald.d said:


> You don't have to go to Oman. Depending on how busy things are, flights to other destinations (particularly those served by Air Arabia, Fly Dubai, or Jazeera) are often cheaper.
> 
> It's a very simple process. There are countless companies who advertise in the local news papers every single day of the week who will do pretty much all the leg-work for you.
> 
> There's nothing dodgy about it at all. Not sure what the costs would be these days, but when I did it, it was around 38,000 AED for the initial year, and 20-25,000 AED for subsequent renewals. That got me two 3-year residency visas.


I don't think the primary concern with the lack of residency visas is the cost of extending a tourist visa, or setting up a shell company to get a work one. The overriding objection is a lack of security - a wealthy person is unlikely to rearrange their affairs and settle in a country at what is likely to be the end of their working life on the strength of a loophole in the law that could be closed at any time.

Imre mentioned Monaco. That's very expensive. But there are places such as Andorra and some of the Caribbean islands where they don't have direct tax and property costs are no higher than Dubai's and probably lower, plus places such as the Isle of Man, Guernsey, Alderney, Switzerland where tax is low and house prices are broadly in line with Dubai's. They all have clear residency qualifications and security for those who settle there.


----------



## Wannaberich

Christ,looks like everyones woken up judging by the activity in this thread and Ive missed it.
Its good to see HT posting her usual dribble.Can't work out why someone who has such a negative opinion of this thread should spend so much time posting such long and boring posts.


----------



## gerald.d

Mistermark said:


> I don't think the primary concern with the lack of residency visas is the cost of extending a tourist visa, or setting up a shell company to get a work one. The overriding objection is a lack of security - a wealthy person is unlikely to rearrange their affairs and settle in a country at what is likely to be the end of their working life on the strength of a loophole in the law that could be closed at any time.


I'm not sure why you call it a loophole - it's not a loophole at all. It's as legitimate as any other method of getting a visa, and in this economic climate, far more secure than relying on getting one through holding down a job.

You set up a company, you rent some office space (virtual or otherwise), and you get a couple of visas. Simple.


> Imre mentioned Monaco. That's very expensive. But there are places such as Andorra and some of the Caribbean islands where they don't have direct tax and property costs are no higher than Dubai's and probably lower, plus places such as the Isle of Man, Guernsey, Alderney, Switzerland where tax is low and house prices are broadly in line with Dubai's. They all have clear residency qualifications and security for those who settle there.


I'm not disputing that at all, just that it isn't as significant a factor as some would make it out to be.


----------



## noir-dresses

gerald.d said:


> Are you saying that you couldn't rent a car - not because you had only your Croatian licence on you, but because you had entered the country on your Canadian passport? i.e. If you'd entered the country on your Croatian passport, you'd have been able to rent a car?
> 
> Or is it simply that you're not allowed to rent a car in Dubai if you only hold a Croatian driving licence?


They check the entry visa stamp on your passport, and you must have a driver's licience that is from the same country. I could of rented the car if I enterd with my Croatian passport, but I use my electronic card at the airport, and that is registerd on my Canadian passport. These are the little thing's you learn about the law there, next time I will make sure I bring my Canadian driver's licience.

One day when I reside in the UAE I'll just go threw the process of getting there driver's licience, but not untill the visa issue is settled, and JLT is complete.


----------



## gerald.d

peacesells said:


> The 20% that I'm talking about are made up of Russians, Kazakhs, Iranians, Indians, Pakistanis and others who bought these properties with spare money from business or life savings to a) hide this money from the tax man, b) have a place where they come and visit any time of the year without a hassle, c) have a place where they can come to in case shit hits the fan in their countries and d) have a place for their children/grandchildren to live and study. All options are viable if they have unrestricted access (i.e. a visa) and are no longer there. Plus you have the rich Europeans/Arabs who bought property for retirement. This is based solely on my 6 years of dealing with UAE property buyers on an almost-daily basis.


All of which are actually covered by the categories mentioned.


> If you think 20% isn't a significant amount, consider that if there is a 20% fall in demand, in theory, a 20% drop in prices will follow. It's a large drop no matter what we're talking but in property, it is huge and VERY significant.


But 20% of _what_? You have to take into context the number of properties that are actually being talked about here.

Once again - there are 4.5 million people living in this country.


----------



## gerald.d

noir-dresses said:


> They check the entry visa stamp on your passport, and you must have a driver's licience that is from the same country. I could of rented the car if I enterd with my Croatian passport, but I use my electronic card at the airport, and that is registerd on my Canadian passport. These are the little thing's you learn about the law there, next time I will make sure I bring my Canadian driver's licience.


Amazing. Doesn't surprise me at all, but still amazing nonetheless. I hate to imagine what my reaction would have been at the counter had I gone through the same experience :lol:


----------



## AltinD

^^ I've seen what seamed to be a British guy very angry and shouting at the (can't remember who) Rent-A-Car counter at MOE. Maybe he had a similar problem 

I fully understand the reasons behind it though.


----------



## gerald.d

AltinD said:


> ^^ I've seen what seamed to be a British guy very angry and shouting at the (can't remember who) Rent-A-Car counter at MOE. Maybe he had a similar problem
> 
> I fully understand the reasons behind it though.


He had every right to get annoyed.

After all, on the inside of our passports it does quite clearly state:



> Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State Requests and *requires* in the Name of Her Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance, and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary.


----------



## noir-dresses

AltinD said:


> ^^ I've seen what seamed to be a British guy very angry and shouting at the (can't remember who) Rent-A-Car counter at MOE. Maybe he had a similar problem
> 
> I fully understand the reasons behind it though.


Just by interest, what are the reason's behind this policy because I've never had this problem in europe, or north america ? As long as you have a ligit driver's licience from both country's, and international driver's licience aswell to go along with them, credit card, passport/passport's. Is it all about the entry stamp ? I even told them I had property in Dubai, did'nt help much.


----------



## Mistermark

gerald.d said:


> I'm not sure why you call it a loophole - it's not a loophole at all. It's as legitimate as any other method of getting a visa, and in this economic climate, far more secure than relying on getting one through holding down a job.
> 
> You set up a company, you rent some office space (virtual or otherwise), and you get a couple of visas. Simple.
> 
> I'm not disputing that at all, just that it isn't as significant a factor as some would make it out to be.


Living permanently in a country on a series of 30-day tourist visas, leaving once a month to pick up a new visa, or obtaining an employment-based visa by setting up and applying through a company that doesn't actually trade _is not a loophole at all_?


----------



## gerald.d

Mistermark said:


> Living permanently in a country on a series of 30-day tourist visas, leaving once a month to pick up a new visa, or obtaining an employment-based visa by setting up and applying through a company that doesn't actually trade _is not a loophole at all_?


Well at the risk of getting into a boring and protracted semantic argument where we all pull out our dictionaries, no. It is not a loophole. At all.

Simply because there are multiple perfectly legitimate methods of getting a residency visa for an emirate does not make those methods loopholes for the fact you can't currently get one from owning a property.


----------



## AltinD

noir-dresses said:


> Just by interest, what are the reason's behind this policy because I've never had this problem in europe, or north america ? As long as you have a ligit driver's licience from both country's, and international driver's licience aswell to go along with them, credit card, passport/passport's. Is it all about the entry stamp ? I even told them I had property in Dubai, did'nt help much.


In a country where people can go in and out freely and where 80% of population are foreigners, you need some more restrictive measures then usual to be "sure" one is the one he/she says is.

Plus there have been many cases of "tourists" renting vehicles and going away, to let say Oman, and from there dissapear together with the car.


----------



## peacesells

gerald.d said:


> All of which are actually covered by the categories mentioned.


How? As an example, you do understand that without a residency visa here, your average Kazakh cannot send his or her children to school in Dubai?



> But 20% of _what_? You have to take into context the number of properties that are actually being talked about here.
> 
> Once again - there are 4.5 million people living in this country.


We are discussing freehold/leasehold properties. The figure amount is irrelevant.


----------



## peacesells

Also, I'm afraid the dud company and the visa run are NOT "legitimate methods" - they are on par with the Bur Dubai hookers - everyone knows they are there but the police don't do much about it.


----------



## shagdash

Philippa C said:


> It's very difficult for some nationalities to get even a visit visa for Europe/US/Australia let alone a residence visa. There's been a general swing to the right in Europe as borne out by the minaret referendum in Switzerland and the "White Christmas" issue in northern Italy so it's going to get tougher for people to migrate.
> 
> The UAE is right to be highly selective about granting residence visas. One of the attractions of Dubai is the relative safety which is in part due to the fact that there is no unemployment (& its associated problems) among the expatriate population, at least. However, the criteria for granting residence visas should have been sorted out before master developers were authorised to promise them.
> 
> I think the authorities were suprised by the number and nature of the applicants for residence visas based on property. Can you imagine the ramifications of someone buying a cheap unit in International City, being granted a visa and then applying for visas for his wife & 5 or 6 kids? The drain on public resources in terms of infrastructure requirements (roads, sewage, public transport) would be outweighed by any gain from the property purchase.
> 
> Clearly, the whole issue needs a rethink so that the right, high worth individuals are encouraged to invest here. Actually, there is already a mechanism for that as expats who are Arab-speaking Muslim who are deemed to have made a significant contribution to the country can be granted citizenship by the Ruler's Court- it's rare though.


While I agree with you over the "let's not give the cheap International City city studio buyers property visas", your argument is flawed when you assume this will be a drain on public resources (there are no free public resources - you pay for roads through salik, for sewage through municipality fees, for transport through other fees etc.)

Instead all the visa fees every 3 years or so (as initially proposed) for the wife and 6 kids would add significant amounts to their depleted coffers (around 52% of Dubai's revenues come through visa fees)

Anyway the flaw in the plan is that you cannot ever become a permanent resident here (which in many countries you can if you live and work there for a while - I think its 7 years for Hong Kong, 2 years for Singapore, maybe someone else can fill in the blanks for US, UK, EU etc.) 

Hence, many ordinary residents who live and work here don't have enough of a carrot to buy property and set up their permanent lives here. This affects secondary market demand negatively, IMO, as for ordinary residents (unlike investors), a home holds more permanent connotations than is afforded by the "lose your job and bye bye dubai" visa offers.


----------



## Wannaberich

Richard Head said:


> Since none of the top ten destinations listed are in standard european holiday destinations, the survey clearly omitted to mention that this company covers only long-haul destinations, plus Berlin and Lisbon for some reason. Which thankfully means that most of the little toerags will still go to Tenerife or Torremolinos for a holiday pint-and-a-fight.


Probably this report posted previously has more credibility.
*Dubai forecast to be a 2010 holiday hotspot*

'The Association of British Travel Agents (ABTA), which represents over *5,000 **travel agencies and around 900 tour operations in the UK*, published its ‘Travel Trends Report 2010’ on Tuesday and included Dubai as one of the locations it believes will be a tourist favourite next year'
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/576970-dubai-forecast-to-be-a-2010-holiday-hotspot


----------



## Wannaberich

*Dubai sets limit for rent rises for 2010*
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/577501-dubai-sets-limit-for-rent-rises-for-2010


----------



## gerald.d

Wannaberich said:


> *Dubai sets limit for rent rises for 2010*
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/577501-dubai-sets-limit-for-rent-rises-for-2010





> The maximum allowed rental increases will be as follows:
> 
> 5 percent increase if the rent value is 26-35 percent less than the RERA rent guide.
> 
> 10 percent increase if the rent value is 36-45 percent less.
> 
> 15 percent increase if the rent value is 46-55 percent less.
> 
> 20 percent increase if the rent value is 55 percent more than the RERA rent guide.


:lol: at the typo.


----------



## sidxb

shagdash said:


> (around 52% of Dubai's revenues come through visa fees)


This is first time I am seeing this figure. Is it published by govt / DNRD ?


----------



## Morrismarina

Regardless of the residency visa, why was the tourist visa reduced from 60 days to 30 days ??


----------



## Dubai_Steve

agod said:


> Nice of you to give me and Imre our marching orders! seeing as I am a citizen of RAK, and my Visa was issued by the RAK government, not sure they will kick me out, and considering there are no borders to talk of, I will just creep back home when they are not looking.
> 
> Alan


Just making the point that UAE will probably shoot themselves in the foot yet again and fix such loopholes at some point to prevent good people such as yourselves from being allowed to live in Dubai. Otherwise they may as well make a visa for property owners, possibly with a renewble charge for it. What's to stop UAE preventing companies which do not make a significant turnover or employ UAE citizens from being closed, including RAK and then kicking you out, if there are no plans for a property owner visa? 

My point is I would not feel safe trying to move/live in UAE at present without having to work for some company there. Also more and more people now work at home, why not let them live in UAE if they own a home there? :dunno:

I think a permanent property owner visa is important since there is not enough industry yet for work visas in UAE to fill the units or the units that were part of S.Mo's big vision. The only way to sell units in UAE is to allow wealthier people to live there since there are not enough jobs being created to populate the city. I don't see much being done to change that at present, where are the job creation initiatives? UAE can't survive on oil, visa fees and tourism alone, certainly not in the mid to long term future.


----------



## gerald.d

Morrismarina said:


> Regardless of the residency visa, why was the tourist visa reduced from 60 days to 30 days ??


Well let's be honest - how many genuine tourists so you think actually spend 60 days here?

My guess is that it was reduced simply to boost revenue from those using it for non-tourism purposes.


----------



## kevin_1980in

I am meeting the Developer in person on 10th of January, 2010. If you have any questions, put me a PM


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai and it's Visa laws*

Hi


Lets get it straight the Visa promise was a con from day one conscrewed
and assisted by the Goverenment,they suckered the lot of us in and then 
changed the rules of the game.This was done when everything was hunky 
dorry,now their reputation has been shot to pieces and there are not many
clowns left in the world going to buy an offplan for love nor money.So where
do they go from here (cap in hands to Abu Dhabi every other week) or come
up with some other devious plan.Forget about the flippers and con men for a moment and spare a thought for the people that wanted to stay and contribute and retire there which I think could could have run into thousands.I am afraid they were never considered, the plan when times were good was to stack them high and sell then to the highest bidder come what may.They only got found out when the world econemy's collapsed before the had enough suckers on board.The new investors will be very wary in the future and will be very thin on the ground.I think people gave them a chance to show they had changed for the better but as usaul there devious side shone through as it always does and always will.

This is only my humble opinion I will not respond to shit that come's my way for me seeing as it is.

:cheers:


----------



## Morrismarina

gerald.d said:


> Well let's be honest - how many genuine tourists so you think actually spend 60 days here?
> 
> My guess is that it was reduced simply to boost revenue from those using it for non-tourism purposes.


I've no idea of the numbers...... but my best mate who lives in Dubai, his parents always spend the UK six weeks school holidays in Dubai in July/August when they bring his daughter over from the UK. Now they have to go to Oman for renewal as they exceed 30 days - an absolutely pointless exercise.

Not sure how the reduction to 30 days would boost revenue, as there's no charge made for issuing or renewing the tourist visa.


----------



## Mistermark

gerald.d said:


> All makes perfect sense, but you still seem to be continuing to ignore the context of the discussion, which is that in my view, people in such circumstances represent a _very_ small percentage of the population here, and have little impact on the overall economy of the UAE.
> 
> Seriously now - do you honestly believe that the primary economic driver for Palm Jebel Ali being in the state that it is because people who were looking to buy there suddenly realised they wouldn't be getting visas and pulled out? (repeat question ad infinitum for every cancelled or stalled project)


The one thing you and I agree about is that 'people in such circumstances represent a very small percentage of the people here [in Dubai]'. Most non-emiratis in Dubai are young-ish ex-pats, there for a few years, trying to make some tax-free money. Very few are older entrepreneurs who've made their money and can now relax. 

Question is: how many people are in the latter category and would be in Dubai, if the promised residency had been honoured?

As a property owner, I saw three options for my units: rental, resale on completion to a wealthy end user or retiring there myself one day. As things stand, only the first of these is a runner. Had Dubai made good on its promise, all three would have been possible.

On your second point, PJA is on hold for two reasons: first, it is no longer possible to sell off-plan property in Dubai, at any price, because so many developers have failed to deliver and the legal system and regulator have been shown to be powerless; and second, even if this was not the case, given that the only market for those properties is landlords who will rent to relatively short-term ex-pat workers, currently there is ample supply of properties for that market, so there is no demand for more. If there was additional demand for resales to the wealthy who wish to reside in a tax haven, there might be the potential to sell PJA units, provided the impotence of the legal and regulatory system could be resolved.


----------



## Jondubai

Happy New Year to ALL  :banana::banana::banana:

This year we all get our houses  :cheers:


----------



## Safrica

As a South African a group of us flew to Malaysia and Dubai and our property purchases was 100% based on VISA, I personally know of over a 100 South African property owners and at any decent get together part of any conversation like the weather is the comparison of what you lost in Dubai.
The reality of the situation is there are many buyers that have purchased in Dubai in having the security of a second home.
If this dream was realised many current owners would have invested more in Dubai and others would have followed.


----------



## AltinD

Mistermark said:


> ... Most non-emiratis in Dubai are young-ish ex-pats, there for a few years, trying to make some tax-free money...


If you wrote "most Brits" your statement would have had some kind of merit ... otherwise is totally incorrect.


----------



## agod

Morrismarina said:


> I've no idea of the numbers...... but my best mate who lives in Dubai, his parents always spend the UK six weeks school holidays in Dubai in July/August when they bring his daughter over from the UK. Now they have to go to Oman for renewal as they exceed 30 days - an absolutely pointless exercise.
> 
> Not sure how the reduction to 30 days would boost revenue, as there's no charge made for issuing or renewing the tourist visa.


Morris, you can turn your 30 day visa into a 60 day one, you have to go down to DNATA, and I think its 800 Dirhams, gets you an extension for another 30 days with 10 days leeway, so mrs g got a 40 days on top of her original 30 day one.

Does that make sense, after that you then go on the Oman run, for once only I believe, then they chuck you out for a month...........the USA Visa Waiver is for 90 days, though how long that is going to stay, now we have another bomber, who knows.

ALan


----------



## agod

Mistermark said:


> The one thing you and I agree about is that 'people in such circumstances represent a very small percentage of the people here [in Dubai]'. Most non-emiratis in Dubai are young-ish ex-pats, there for a few years, trying to make some tax-free money. Very few are older entrepreneurs who've made their money and can now relax.
> 
> Question is: how many people are in the latter category and would be in Dubai, if the promised residency had been honoured?
> 
> As a property owner, I saw three options for my units: rental, resale on completion to a wealthy end user or retiring there myself one day. As things stand, only the first of these is a runner. Had Dubai made good on its promise, all three would have been possible.
> 
> On your second point, PJA is on hold for two reasons: first, it is no longer possible to sell off-plan property in Dubai, at any price, because so many developers have failed to deliver and the legal system and regulator have been shown to be powerless; and second, even if this was not the case, given that the only market for those properties is landlords who will rent to relatively short-term ex-pat workers, currently there is ample supply of properties for that market, so there is no demand for more. If there was additional demand for resales to the wealthy who wish to reside in a tax haven, there might be the potential to sell PJA units, provided the impotence of the legal and regulatory system could be resolved.



I can only go on my own observations in our building, I think that about 80% are tenants who work, so there visas will be work related, the rest are wealthy owners, Swiss, Russians, Croations, Irish, Dannish, Americans, who would have liked to have lived here if the residence visa was forthcoming, I have spoke to most of them, and they have to come and go to there other residences all over the world.

Alan


----------



## iamici

Where is this DNATA place ? 

So all I need do is go down to DNATA and not appear dodgy and give them 800 dirhams and then I get another 40days ? 

If that is true, I guess it is ok, as 40 or 50 days would be more than enough for me with my stays. 

What DOES annoy me is the constant changing of the rules. I was happy with the 60 days. I m happy with 30 plus 40. I dont really care about the 800 dirhams but it would be nice if you could get the acceptance rejection online like with the australians, for tickets and things.

Constant changing of the rules is not a good thing for investment. See what that south african said, he was right.


----------



## Richard Head

sidxb said:


> This is first time I am seeing this figure. Is it published by govt / DNRD ?


Visas 52% of Dubai's revenues.:lol: :lol: Are you serious. If it's even 0.52% i'll be amazed. Ridiculous.


----------



## Pleth

*2 Bedr. Apartments for rent.*



Wannaberich said:


> There's only a handful at this price.Most are 70-80.


No this is not entirely true. There are many rental bedr. apt. in Dubai Silicon Oasis at 49.000 - 60.000 Aed. 

Yesterday I had a look at Al Barsha, here are many of same category at 60.000 Aed with facilities.


----------



## iced

*2010 Predictions*

As it nearly the end of this year and start of the new year it is probably a good time to start reading crystal balls.

My prediction is that dubai prices will continue to fall in 2010 probably between 8-15% due to factors such as new supply and a stronger dollar. The visa issue will be partially resolved to try to encourage investment. Rents will also fall but will then stabalise (i think rents will fall 15% from current levels )what do others think?

will be interesting to see how well the predicitions went at the end of next year!


----------



## shagdash

Richard Head said:


> Visas 52% of Dubai's revenues.:lol: :lol: Are you serious. If it's even 0.52% i'll be amazed. Ridiculous.


Cannot seem to recall where it is that I read this figure. What I have is this report:

http://web2.dubaichamber.ae/pdf/reports/Dubai-Macroeconomic-Report.pdf

If you take 2003 revenues, fees/customs and others total to 46%. Maybe this number grew to 52% by 2009 (can't be sure now as I cannot provide the source)

Take the numbers at face value.


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## Freestyler

Dubai's GDP is $80 billion, $40 billion can't come from visa fees.


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## antlong

*Business Bay - Commercial Real Estate - Churchill Executive*

I have commercial units in the Churchill Executive http://www.churchilltowersdubai.com/constructionupdates
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=275052

Could anyone help me understand the following:

Is their a market to sell these units when the tower is completed?

How much could I expect per square foot to sell? i.e. AED 500, AED 700, AED 1000, AED 1200? etc

How much could I expect to rent it for per square foot?

How much money would I need to spend to fit out the commercial unit? or does the tenant bear this? or can I expect the developer to do to a certain level so that a tenant could ready occupy?

What incentives are required to lure a tenant?

What is the average building outgoings per square foot I could expect?

Sorry for all the questions ....... Thank in advance!


----------



## Mistermark

AltinD said:


> If you wrote "most Brits" your statement would have had some kind of merit ... otherwise is totally incorrect.


Actually I think we're both wrong. 'Most Westerners' is probably the truth.


----------



## shagdash

Freestyler said:


> Dubai's GDP is $80 billion, $40 billion can't come from visa fees.


True. 
But isn't GDP different from government revenues? From what I remember of Econ 101, GDP is the total value of goods and services produced within the economy of which government expenses/incomes are a subset of, correct?
In any case, I stand corrected that it ain't all visa fees alone but also includes taxes (a miniscule %), customs and other fees.


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## Richard Head

shagdash said:


> Cannot seem to recall where it is that I read this figure. What I have is this report:
> 
> http://web2.dubaichamber.ae/pdf/reports/Dubai-Macroeconomic-Report.pdf
> 
> If you take 2003 revenues, fees/customs and others total to 46%. Maybe this number grew to 52% by 2009 (can't be sure now as I cannot provide the source)
> 
> Take the numbers at face value.


I can't see exactly where in that report you pulled 46% from, and to be honest I can't be arsed, because really, since when did "fees, customs, others" equate to "visa charges"?

Let's just take one tiny example. Dubai imports 10,000 cars a month (conservatively). Let's say each one is valued at AED 50,000 (conservatively). 5% of that total value is AED 25 million in import duty alone. How many visas would they need to issue to generate AED 25 million (IN ONE MONTH)???????

That's just comparing against one segment of the import market, before we even start talking about food, consumer goods, electronics. Oh and other revenues..............like oil.

They probably get more revenue from Salik and speeding fines than they do from visas.

So, if it's OK with you, let's not take the figures at face value, since unless you place the right interpretation on these figures, they are obviously crap. :bash:


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## peacesells

shagdash said:


> Cannot seem to recall where it is that I read this figure. What I have is this report:
> 
> http://web2.dubaichamber.ae/pdf/reports/Dubai-Macroeconomic-Report.pdf
> 
> If you take 2003 revenues, fees/customs and others total to 46%. Maybe this number grew to 52% by 2009 (can't be sure now as I cannot provide the source)
> 
> Take the numbers at face value.


From the report:

_The components of Dubai total GDP are the non-financial corporation sector; the financial corporation sector; government services sector; households domestic services sector; and the residual balancing item imputed bank services. *Over the period 1999-2003*, on average the non-financial corporation sector contributed 82% of total GDP; the financial corporation sector contributed 11%; *the government services sector contributed 9%*; the households domestic services sector contributed 1%; and the residual balancing item imputed bank services was -3% 1._

So yeah, you're off mark big time. The TOTAL contribution of government services to the economy can be assumed at 9%. Even if we take a super-optimistic value of 10% of that coming from visas (which I think is high but since we have no other basis we will assume it is THAT high), that's still under 1% of revenue from visas and such.


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## mackie1964

The government also has a reasonably diverse stream of revenues. This year, 54 percent of the $9.1 billion intake is expected to come from visa, land and tourism fees, 19 percent from customs duties and 9 percent from dividends paid by the Investment Corporation of Dubai, the investment vehicle that holds the Emirates airline and stakes in local banks and utilities. Oil and gas-related revenues should provide 14 percent. 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE5B105320091202


*Have a wonderful New Year everyone, I am sure 2010 will be a great year for Dubai and the UAE*


----------



## agod

iamici said:


> Where is this DNATA place ?
> 
> So all I need do is go down to DNATA and not appear dodgy and give them 800 dirhams and then I get another 40days ?
> 
> If that is true, I guess it is ok, as 40 or 50 days would be more than enough for me with my stays.
> 
> What DOES annoy me is the constant changing of the rules. I was happy with the 60 days. I m happy with 30 plus 40. I dont really care about the 800 dirhams but it would be nice if you could get the acceptance rejection online like with the australians, for tickets and things.
> 
> Constant changing of the rules is not a good thing for investment. See what that south african said, he was right.



DNATA is next to the Metropolitan Hotel on SZR, it is in the Emirates Building at the back, on the ground floor, we did this in March, so as you say, it might all be different now.

Alan


----------



## Imre

Visa or not this is my biggest achievement since I have been living in Dubai ( from 5th of March 2006 )

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=49305367&postcount=92

If I have to leave because of the residence visa I will do it proudly 

*Happy New Year For All!*


----------



## shagdash

^^

Thank you Mackie, that IS the article where I got the figure from (which is still off by 2% 

peacesells: Total GDP and Government revenues are two different numbers, government revenues being a subset of the total GDP numbers and my comment on the 46% was based on the government revenue number, so obviously smaller base. 

Any case those are 2003 nos. Reuters have given us 2009 numbers.


----------



## mackie1964

What you have done to promote Dubai should be recognised somehow. All the best for next year Imre and see you soon. *Boldog uj evet *:cheers:



Imre said:


> Visa or not this is my biggest achievement since I have been living in Dubai ( from 5th of March 2006 )
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=49305367&postcount=92
> 
> If I have to leave because of the residence visa I will do it proudly
> 
> *Happy New Year For All!*


----------



## shagdash

Imre said:


> Visa or not this is my biggest achievement since I have been living in Dubai ( from 5th of March 2006 )
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=49305367&postcount=92
> 
> If I have to leave because of the residence visa I will do it proudly
> 
> *Happy New Year For All!*


WOW Imre. Especially liked the teddy bear 

Happy New Year and am quite certain there'll be more happy new years for you wherever you choose, be that Dubai or anywhere else.

Right I'm off to my yacht party. :cheers:


----------



## agod

Happy new year to you all....................

I only got my mug in the GN again, they obviously like my Drivel.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/g...ws-readers-seek-hope-filled-oughties-1.560007

I should change my visa status to Jounolist. (If only I could spell)

Alan


----------



## gerald.d

agod said:


> Happy new year to you all....................
> 
> I only got my mug in the GN again, they obviously like my Drivel.
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/g...ws-readers-seek-hope-filled-oughties-1.560007
> 
> I should change my visa status to Jounolist. (If only I could spell)
> 
> Alan


I like the way they referred to you as " a Dubai-based British expatriate", whereas everyone else is referred to as "a Gulf News reader".

I take it you have a bit of taste and read The National then


----------



## Morrismarina

agod said:


> Morris, you can turn your 30 day visa into a 60 day one, you have to go down to DNATA, and I think its 800 Dirhams, gets you an extension for another 30 days with 10 days leeway, so mrs g got a 40 days on top of her original 30 day one.
> 
> Does that make sense, after that you then go on the Oman run, for once only I believe, then they chuck you out for a month...........the USA Visa Waiver is for 90 days, though how long that is going to stay, now we have another bomber, who knows.
> 
> ALan


Cheers for the info Alan. kay:. Sounds like this is where Gerald had the idea that the reduction to 30 days was to increase revenue. Makes sense now.


----------



## Morrismarina

Imre said:


> Visa or not this is my biggest achievement since I have been living in Dubai ( from 5th of March 2006 )
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=49305367&postcount=92


Teddy is back. :banana::banana::banana:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*A LOT OF SURPLUS*

"There is going to be a lot of surplus. About 50,000 units are planned for delivery next year," Charles Neil, CEO of property consulting firm Landmark Advisory, told Maktoob Business.

And with banks still reluctant to lend as their balance sheets remain stretched because of non-performing loans, even the few potential buyers who may want to test their luck are finding it hard to get financing.

"Some 80 percent of transactions are by cash buyers at the moment. We will continue to see cash buyers dominating the market," Neil said.

The credit crunch has curbed development of new projects, alleviating some of the impact of oversupply. At the same time however, what is already available will take time to get absorbed during a tough economic climate for consumers and businesses.

“Residential oversupply in Dubai may reach 30 percent by the end of 2010,” UBS’s Masud said. “The commercial market is already around the 40 percent oversupply level.”

He added: "Given minimal financing and expected decline in house prices I find it challenging to see how such high property inventory levels can be digested in the foreseeable future.”

*Analysts agree that a pickup in the housing market depends on a turnaround in Dubai’s economy*. After a contraction this year, economists predict growth of about 2 percent next year.

*"Unless the economy grows, that surplus won't be taken up on the commercial side because you need to create jobs and you need new business to set up," Landmark’s Neil, said. *

He predicts a 50 percent vacancy rate for offices by the end of 2011 "provided everything under construction gets built". 

http://business.maktoob.com/20090000413566/Dubai_real_estate_woes_to_continue_in_2010/Article.htm


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Morrismarina said:


> Teddy is back. :banana::banana::banana:


:banana: Happy New Year to Everyone, especially the very lucky Teddy! :banana:

2010 looks like it could be a difficult year for UAE but should ultimately be good. Hold in there everyone.


----------



## dubaimat

Dubai_Steve said:


> :banana: Happy New Year to Everyone, especially the very lucky Teddy! :banana:
> 
> 2010 looks like it could be a difficult year for UAE but should ultimately be good. Hold in there everyone.


anyway, Happy New Year!

eventually the outlook for Dubai at least partially depends on the availability of different kinds of draft beer. 
I suggest a municipality funded study to be presented by the end of 2010 :cheers:
http://i.imgur.com/dRMby.jpg


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## cayman1

Happy new year 2010 

Are there sign of recovery in off sale properties?


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## Freestyler

cayman1 said:


> Happy new year 2010
> 
> Are there sign of recovery in off sale properties?


Nope


----------



## antlong

*Business Bay - Commercial Real Estate - Churchill Executive*



Dubai_Steve said:


> "There is going to be a lot of surplus. About 50,000 units are planned for delivery next year," Charles Neil, CEO of property consulting firm Landmark Advisory, told Maktoob Business.
> 
> And with banks still reluctant to lend as their balance sheets remain stretched because of non-performing loans, even the few potential buyers who may want to test their luck are finding it hard to get financing.
> 
> "Some 80 percent of transactions are by cash buyers at the moment. We will continue to see cash buyers dominating the market," Neil said.
> 
> The credit crunch has curbed development of new projects, alleviating some of the impact of oversupply. At the same time however, what is already available will take time to get absorbed during a tough economic climate for consumers and businesses.
> 
> “Residential oversupply in Dubai may reach 30 percent by the end of 2010,” UBS’s Masud said. “The commercial market is already around the 40 percent oversupply level.”
> 
> He added: "Given minimal financing and expected decline in house prices I find it challenging to see how such high property inventory levels can be digested in the foreseeable future.”
> 
> *Analysts agree that a pickup in the housing market depends on a turnaround in Dubai’s economy*. After a contraction this year, economists predict growth of about 2 percent next year.
> 
> *"Unless the economy grows, that surplus won't be taken up on the commercial side because you need to create jobs and you need new business to set up," Landmark’s Neil, said. *
> 
> He predicts a 50 percent vacancy rate for offices by the end of 2011 "provided everything under construction gets built".
> 
> http://business.maktoob.com/20090000413566/Dubai_real_estate_woes_to_continue_in_2010/Article.htm


Cheers Guys ... I guess this explains the value of my commercial units in business bay .... worthless .... ouch 50% vacancy rate for offices ..... I couldn't give them away for buy or for rent!


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## Philippa C

mackie1964 said:


> What you have done to promote Dubai should be recognised somehow. All the best for next year Imre and see you soon. *Boldog uj evet *:cheers:


Fabulous shots. I agree with Mackie; you should get permanent residence at least and an official role with the authorities as your photos chart Dubai's literal rise from the desert. Seriously, you should present your portfolio to the Ruler's Office.

I wish everyone all the best for 2010!


----------



## High Times

antlong said:


> Cheers Guys ... I guess this explains the value of my commercial units in business bay .... worthless .... ouch 50% vacancy rate for offices ..... I couldn't give them away for buy or for rent!


 
There are thousands of investors who were "persuaded" that Business Bay offered good prospects for investment by various marketing schemes. :sly:

Many of them paying upwards of Dh 2,000 psf for units. 

I suspect some investors will be sat on losses for years here, whilst some in the know will have planned their escape more thoughtfully.


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## sandstone

Hey all - Happy new year

What is the official tenancy contract that is currently in effect today?

I have seen the 1 page 'green contract' which I have used but I have recently seen a 'Form G' - which appears to be referenced on RERA's site on a page in the 'Rentals' section (look in horizontal banner at the head of the web page) under Forms link (on the left). However, the form cannot be downloaded there. Perfect.

Of course, 'official' is used loosely. I'd be more interested in trends and common practice on the ground?

I'll try to post the two for comparison, if I can easily figure out how to do attachments .


----------



## Number 49

kevin_1980in said:


> I am meeting the Developer in person on 10th of January, 2010. If you have any questions, put me a PM


Some questions:

1) I have read that ownership of both the D1 Tower and the PV have changed and the new owner is now ENSHAA. Please ask the developer to clarify?
2) It would appear that most (if not all) other developments in Culture Village are either 'on hold' or cancelled. This will obviously make the sale and/or rental of apartments by investors in both the PV and D1 a lot less attractive. Is the developer planning to help existing investors in any way as both projects were sold on the basis that they were part of the Culture Village development which has now been significantly delayed and may not happen at all?
3) Following from 2) above, the prices that apartments were sold to investors were at the top end of the scale because the projects were both very 'classey' developments within Culture Village. Now, not only have prices of properties in Dubai reduced significantly, but also the PV and D1 will probably be the only developments completed within Culuture Village for many months (if not years) and will therefore be standalone and isolated. Is the deveoper prepared to review the pricing structure?
4) As both the D1 and PV will be completed ahead of all other projects in Culture Village, can the developer confirm that all utilities (water, gas, electricity) will be fully functioning on completion?
5) Has the devloper got a detailed construction schedule/timetable for both the D1 and PV and if so, can it be made available to existing investors? In other words, what confidence can investors have in the developer's latest estimated completion date?
6) No doubt a number of existing investors in both the D1 and PV have either defaulted or are delaying payments. Will the developer tell you the current status inthis regard and comment on how they are handling their resultant liquidity issues

Thanks


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## dubaimat

High Times said:


> There are thousands of investors who were "persuaded" that Business Bay offered good prospects for investment by various marketing schemes. :sly:
> 
> Many of them paying upwards of Dh 2,000 psf for units.
> 
> I suspect some investors will be sat on losses for years here, whilst some in the know will have planned their escape more thoughtfully.


Isn't it ironic? According to the new website http://www.burjdubai.com
(and obviously Sheikh Mo) it is all about understanding the vision of Dubai.

One has to bear in mind though, that Sheikh Mohammed lately hit out at international investors: "They do not understand anything".

Starting from monday January 4th onward, I recommend a visit to the platform on the Burj"s 124th floor to improve the understanding or better, toget some understanding in case it is missing at all :cheers:


> The At The Top, Burj Dubai tour typically last 1 hour. However, you can linger as long as you like before making the return journey to the base of Burj Dubai. You’ll be taking with you a fuller appreciation of this architectural wonder *and a deeper understanding of Dubai’s remarkable vision*.


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## GreenKiwi

Where did you read????? Nothing on the Sunland Australia site and as a listed company any such change would almost certainly have to be announced so likely Dubai gossip unless you an substantiate.


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## GreenKiwi

A little research by Number 49 would reveal that ENSHAA is owned by the Al Quassimi family and they are the JV partners in Emirates Sunland


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## GreenKiwi

ie putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5. Check your facts and what you read!!!


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## GreenKiwi

Sorry for another post but you can find out how much has been paid by buyers for PV and D1 by going to the Sunland Australia website, go to investor relations and look at the latest annual 2009 financial accounts. I did look at these figures and recall a fairly high percentage paid from the full contract values. The accounts will also tell you how much remains unsold and again I recall a lot sold. In other words the crash hit when a lot of buyers had paid fairly big percentages so difficult for them to default and risk losing substantial sums. Perhaps someone who is an accountant can pull the exact figures from the 2009 financial accounts. Nice to look at a properly audited set of accounts which can be relied upon from a country with proper regulations and oversight.....I'm not Australian!!


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## True Blue

cayman1 said:


> Happy new year 2010
> 
> Are there sign of recovery in off sale properties?


^^:lol:

Love it! 18 hours into the new year and looking for a lifeline already

I take it you meant off plan as off sales is something entirely different:cheers:


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## Mistermark

cayman1 said:


> Happy new year 2010
> 
> Are there sign of recovery in off sale properties?


No. IMHO recovery in demand for off-sale properties will not happen, even with a transformation of the economy. It will take laws, courts and a regulator that work, and have done so successfully for some years, before investors will consider off-plan in Dubai again.


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## cayman1

But if somebody want to sell off plan propertie , there will be a price 600 700 aed sqft ? Or not ?


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## baba toto

Lawns projetcs are "on hold" on the RERA website....:bash:


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## Mistermark

cayman1 said:


> But if somebody want to sell off plan propertie , there will be a price 600 700 aed sqft ? Or not ?


Not really. Here's why:

Say you can buy a completed Marina apartment for AED 1000 psf and it earns you rent of 100 psf a year.

A developer comes along with fancy renderings of a new project and is offering you apartments off-plan. He says the project will be completed in three years' time.

Based on experience with Dubai to date, a project that should be completed in three years will take five. So if you buy off-plan you will have no rental income for five years, compared with AED 100 psf per year, for five years, with a completed apartment. So the very most you could consider paying for the off-plan unit is AED 500 psf.

Next, you have to allow for uncertainty. What's the chance the project will never get built and the developer will walk off with your money? In the current market I'd suggest about 1 in 3. Reduce the price per square foot by that amount and you're at AED 335 psf.

Even in the current market, assuming a free plot of land (which isn't realistic) I suspect that labour and raw materials costs are higher than this. Result: the off-plan market is dead.

As previously mentioned, the way round this is for developers who have successfully delivered projects to spend the profits on building complete apartment blocks or villa developments, using their own capital and at their own risk, then release them onto the market at prices that compare to resales. Either that or wait a decade or so for Dubai to get its laws, courts and RERA into a semblance of shape, let them operate effectively (and score some high-profile hits against developers) then maybe, just maybe, investors may consider buying off-plan in Dubai again.


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## paul66

I think off-plan sales will not make a comeback anywhere in the world for a good 5 years at least.

Off-plan sales are dead in the UK and Europe too not just Dubai.


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## True Blue

^^Risks are no longer acceptable now. Only chance is a trust worthy developer nearing completion and even then "as an investor" you are looking for distressed sellers with bargain prices.


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## 234sale

Dubai Metro station open as of last night.


----------



## Freestyler

Another similar case:
*Investors fret as lenders impose 'construction fees'​*
It has been some time since relations started to become a tad testy between property owners and mortgage lenders in Dubai. The latest flashpoint relates to ‘construction fees,' the amount charged by mortgage lenders for property handover delays.

Buyers unanimously argue that project delays are not within their control, so they should not be charged extra.
One such investor, P. P., was asked by her mortgage lender to sign a document confirming that she was okay with the condition of the property before the last instalment is released.
"How can I, when the developer refuses to show me my unit unless the bank has paid?" she frets. "And then I am told, I may have to pay the developer for late payments by my lender!"

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/investors-fret-as-lenders-impose-construction-fees-1.557201


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*UAE saw no mass exodus of expats in 2009 - official*

The UAE did not see a mass cancellation of residency visas in 2009 due to the impact of international financial crisis, a senior official has said.

Major General Nasser Al Awadi Al Menhali, Ministry of Interior's Assistant Undersecretary of Naturalisation, Residency and Exits Affairs by proxy, said figures refuted claims by international media of a mass exodus by expats from the country.

"The total number of cancelled collective residences in 2009 was lower than 2007 and 2008 and there was no real or remarkable increase in the number of cancelled collective residences in 2009. This confirms UAE economy is still sound," he said in comments published by Emirates Business on Monday.

"Some 21,065,229 people entered the UAE via air, land and sea outlets in 2009. This figure is the biggest evidence UAE was, and is still, attractive. In addition, the figure is higher than the one registered in 2007 and 2008. The number of people who went out of the country last year totalled 20,682,623," he told the paper.

He added that the UAE did not have any intention to grant foreign investors permanent residency in UAE. 

The residency granted currently is the six-month residency approved by cabinet according to certain conditions. 

"We do not have any intention to change these conditions or set period of time," he said.

Al Menhali said the number of violators who were seized last year totalled 27,550, while the number of infiltrators was 2,474. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/577757-uae-saw-no-mass-exodus-of-expats-in-2009---official


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## 234sale




----------



## June09

*are you happy with the processing?*

Hi guys

It great to meet people who has own properties in Fortuanto, i wanted to meet anyone to dchat about and share our problems that we are facing specially with two subjects :

First : are you happy about the finishing and the materials they used in the 1 BR sample there are doing? as i see the bathroom looks very cheap, the samples they show me when i purchase the property in their office was really great, have you all seen the finishing of the bathroom?

Second: from what i see it seems that the development is going to take minimum of 6 months while they are claiming it will be by end Feb.!!! and last time i called them they said it will be by the first quarter of 2010 ! so what is next one this matter . they are not being transparent and we are just losing money by paying the bank and rent !!!

Please lets share and be all one to be able to do something about it, if anyone has an experience with them to share please let us hear it, and what should we do to get compensation of all this delays 

Cheers


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## 234sale

Another important news from the grape vine...

JLT is now under DM.......


----------



## docc

^^ Eh?

Well, anything is better than DMCC!


----------



## peacesells

Hey so where are you guys watching the Burj opening from today? Anywhere where we can go to grab a bite that is not too close so that we don't have to be stuck in all that traffic yet still see the fireworks?


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## docc

^^ I'm going to be watching it from my apartment in Burj Views! Lucky for me my old tenant vacated 2 days ago and my new tenant won't be moving in until tomorrow! 

My only concern is that would i be missing much if i don't view the show from the promenade or the park itself?


----------



## True Blue

Wannaberich said:


> Most people buy completed.I dont think Ive ever even seen an ad for off-plan.
> If there is off-plan I dont think it would be the same structure as in Dubai where you pay in stages and maybe flip for a profit.





rags said:


> While there are generally not many off-plan in UK, you have a number of cases where the development is just about initiated when apts are put on sale. Most developments in the London docklands area put apts on sale with nothing significant off the ground other than some foundation and a dismantleable show-apt. Capital East, Pan Peninsula, Barrier Point are some examples. Yes, you pay in instalments. However, you cannot flip the way you may do in UAE in that you will have to pay up fully and, if I am right, you will have to get the apt registered in your name before you can sell. That way, Revenue can get to know of all trxns and potential cap gains.





Morrismarina said:


> Off plan sales were quite common in the UK and still are, but it works differently to the UAE model. I'll give you the example of my niece who moved into her apartment on 12th December.
> The builder is Barretts one of the largest in the UK. The block has 12 two bed units and were on the market for sale in the summer this year. My niece signed up for one she is a first time buyer. Was told the unit would be ready on 12 th December she obtained a mortgage offer from RBS which had a 6 month expiry date. No funds were put down at this stage but the contract was signed.
> As promised unit was handed over on 12th December not even a day late. So the way it works in the UK is that the sale is off plan but you're not making stage payments you pay in full when you move in. This is of course very different to the UAE, the UK developer is financing the build and therefore is borrowing funds fom his bank, unlike the UAE where the buyer is providing all of the finance. Now, the UK model ensures that the build is completed with a reasonable time of the completion date given in the contract. Any delay is costing the builder interest, unlike the UAE model where the developer has no interest costs and therefore no incentive to complete on time. Any delay is irrelevant to the UAE developer and may in fact work to the UAE developer's advantage with interest being earned on the monies in escrow and a nice "force majeure" clause inserted into the contract to ensure that everything can be claimed as FM and thus all penalty payments waived.
> The UK is not true off plan but a half way measure. There is no need for escrow accounts. However the buyer can come unstuck and this has happened in many cases where the build time is more than six months, say 18 months - the mortgage offer runs out after 6 months, property prices fall and the lender refuses to renew the mortgage offer as the loan to value becomes way to high in some cases easily exceeding 100%. The buyer has no access to funds so cannot complete the purchase. Then the developer takes the buyer to Court for reneging on the contract, in some cases developers in the UK are enforcing contracts so strongly that buyers are being persued for bankruptcy.
> So the UK model is not without risk but much less risky than off plan in UAE.


Off plan sales in UK are more common than people think. I bought off plan for a number of reasons. I wanted to reserve the best plot in the development, I needed time to arrange sale of some other properties to raise cash etc. I wanted a say in the finishes, flooring, wall tiles, bathroom & kitchen designs and increase my garage from 2 bay to 3 bay. If you buy completed then you take what you get.

Off plans are now becoming the norm again as builders are only given clearance from the banks to build if they have a missived sale. In my case I only had to pay a £10k deposit and make payment for upgrades before completion. The bulk of the money being transferred on the day you get your keys. Some people came unstuck as the completion date was generaly 1 year from sales agreement and when they applied for a mortgage they were refused due to the banks being under stricter control. Fortunately the builder was able to sell them on at a higher price due to them being ready now and not off plan. Quality always sells no matter what the market is.


----------



## True Blue

Wannaberich said:


> Did you pay more or less the same for your off-plan as you would have for a similar but completed property?


Less! The completed ones sold for more than I paid. Mind you when the footballers started buying, the interest and the prices started going up.

This is what I always found very strange about Dubai off plans. The 2 I bought were below market value at 750AED/ft2 and 775 less 10%, when the market was around 1,000AED. Why people were queueing up to pay full market price was just incredible when they were bank rolling the development and not getting a discount. Most people who have bought in Emaars Park Island and Quays or the Select Properties developments will just get their money back if they are lucky. Do you think the bank would provide this funding for free service?


----------



## speculator

The off plan version in the UK is different to the UAE. As described by True blue the mortgage or cash payment is made on handover. 

But its still off plan as you are buying from a drawing. *i.e you have made the purchase off/from the plan.*

I made a number of these purchases in the UK a few years back and YES the price is usually 10-15% lower or in other words you could expect 10-15% appreciation by the time of handover. 

Wish id taken the risk on a few more though.


----------



## bizzybonita

New legislation on property rent cap for 2010

The Vice President and Prime Minister of UAE, and Ruler of Dubai, H.H. Sheikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, issued a legislation on property rent cap in 2010 to ensure the stability of property market in the emirate.

The decree aims to regulate the relationship between tenants and landlords and chart a legal framework for this matter.

Rent increase caps for 2010 will be set at the same rates as for 2009, as per the decree issued on rental cap in 2009. The decree endorsed the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) rent index as the main reference to determine the average rent on which the rental increases in 2010 will be decided.

Rental increases are permissible only if the property is more than 25 percent below the average index price. If the rent charged was 26 percent to 35 percent less than the average rent for similar property, the maximum increase shall be equivalent to 5 percent of rent value for the year 2009.

If the rent charged was 36 percent to 45 percent less than average rent for similar property, the maximum increase will be equivalent to 10 percent of rental value for the year 2009.

Similarly if the rent was 46 to 55 percent less than average rent for similar property, the maximum increase shall be equivalent to 15 percent of rent value for the year 2009.

If the rent was 56 percent to 55 percent less than the average rent for similar property, the maximum increase shall be equivalent to 20 percent of rent value for the year 2009.

The decree will get effective from the date of issuance, and will be published in the official gazette.


----------



## High Times

^^

I wonder if the big man is considering a new law that restricts increases to service charges along with a RERA aproved index for service charges.

I dont think so. hno:

This is the next bomb to be dropped on Dubai's real estate market as developers use service charges to generate profits instead of sales.


----------



## Smokeey

Won't the Strata Law assist in bringing down service charges? (if/when it ever materialises...)


----------



## Imre

Burj Khalifa (aka Burj Dubai)


----------



## iownyou

234sale said:


> Another important news from the grape vine...
> 
> JLT is now under DM.......


do you have any proff of this?
if this is true then opening a company there will be much easier and faster


----------



## Imre

This is the history 

*Burj Khalifa 828*

displaying the new name and the height


----------



## agod

True Blue said:


> Off plan sales in UK are more common than people think. I bought off plan for a number of reasons. I wanted to reserve the best plot in the development, I needed time to arrange sale of some other properties to raise cash etc. I wanted a say in the finishes, flooring, wall tiles, bathroom & kitchen designs and increase my garage from 2 bay to 3 bay. If you buy completed then you take what you get.
> 
> Off plans are now becoming the norm again as builders are only given clearance from the banks to build if they have a missived sale. In my case I only had to pay a £10k deposit and make payment for upgrades before completion. The bulk of the money being transferred on the day you get your keys. Some people came unstuck as the completion date was generaly 1 year from sales agreement and when they applied for a mortgage they were refused due to the banks being under stricter control. Fortunately the builder was able to sell them on at a higher price due to them being ready now and not off plan. Quality always sells no matter what the market is.


TB, I think you should expain the Scottish system, is very different from the rest of the uk.

I bought off plan in Glasgow back in the 80's, that first development on the Clyde, by the Giant Crane, cant remember it's name, but I paid £100 for a missive to buy a penthouse flat, worth £60 grand, and nothing else until it was built and need to complete, I didnt want it, but the solicitor said that they where extremely popular, and her brother would take it off my hands, she said she shouldn't do it really, acting for us both, so I sent here a bunch of flowers that persuaded her, just signed over the missive to her for a small profit.............Yeh right, 

Bit different from nowadays.

Alan


----------



## Imre

It was bad investment if someone has made gifts with the Burj Dubai logo

Burj Khalifa


----------



## True Blue

agod said:


> TB, I think you should expain the Scottish system, is very different from the rest of the uk.
> 
> I bought off plan in Glasgow back in the 80's, that first development on the Clyde, by the Giant Crane, cant remember it's name, but I paid £100 for a missive to buy a penthouse flat, worth £60 grand, and nothing else until it was built and need to complete, I didnt want it, but the solicitor said that they where extremely popular, and her brother would take it off my hands, she said she shouldn't do it really, acting for us both, so I sent here a bunch of flowers that persuaded her, just signed over the missive to her for a small profit.............Yeh right,
> 
> Bit different from nowadays.
> 
> Alan


Not sure of all the differences with the rest of UK. In Scotland when you buy a house off plan or ready, you must enter into a legally binding agreement to complete the sale on a given date. This means that the seller can not sell to anyone with a higher offer, commonly called gazumping in the rest of UK. This is the only difference I am aware of

A local lad who plays for Spurs offered me £150k to transfer the missive into his name. In England he could have just gazumped me and paid the extra to the unscrupulious developer. Maybe things are different south of the border nowadays:dunno:


----------



## Imre

What is the next step?

Dubai will be renamed as well ?


----------



## High Times

Imre said:


> What is the next step?
> 
> Dubai will be renamed as well ?


I think the significance of the naming of Burj Khalifa will be more appharent as time goes by. This is the begining of major changes in the management of Dubai/Abu Dhabi as far as i am concerned.

*Here comes Abu Dubai. :cheers:*


----------



## docc

The fireworks/lights/fountain show was LEGEN....wait for it.....DARY! Dubai never ceases to amaze


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> Not sure of all the differences with the rest of UK. In Scotland when you buy a house off plan or ready, you must enter into a legally binding agreement to complete the sale on a given date. This means that the seller can not sell to anyone with a higher offer, commonly called gazumping in the rest of UK. This is the only difference I am aware of
> 
> A local lad who plays for Spurs offered me £150k to transfer the missive into his name. In England he could have just gazumped me and paid the extra to the unscrupulious developer. Maybe things are different south of the border nowadays:dunno:


You're correct TB. In Scotland once an offer is made (even verbal) then it's a done deal (even if you haven't signed the contract) and you have to go through with the purchase. Good news is you cannot be gazumped if another buyer comes along.
In England and Wales you can back out at any time as you have only made an offer, likewise the seller can accept a higher offer, so long as contracts not signed and exchanged. Scottish system appears to be much better than rest of UK.


----------



## sidxb

Wannaberich said:


> Have only seen bits of the fireworks display and from what I saw it doesnt compare to the Atlantis.When they lit up the outline of the palm it was the most amazing display I have ever seen and will be very hard to beat.


Atlantis firework was good but audience was less. To view it live , you should be at a good height. As for burj dubai firework , even from ground level it was an excellent show.

:cheers:


----------



## Smokeey

Fantastic shots Imre 

Btw, you're going to have to change your domain name


----------



## Get Smart

amazing fireworks


----------



## agod

High Times said:


> I think the significance of the naming of Burj Khalifa will be more appharent as time goes by. This is the begining of major changes in the management of Dubai/Abu Dhabi as far as i am concerned.
> 
> *Here comes Abu Dubai. :cheers:*



He probably owns it now anyhow, call it "Higher Purchase":lol: in todays times, I think the next could be the "Abi Dabi Palm"
and the "owned by AD Walk" who knows what they agreed on over Eid, all this talk about the Emirates as a whole, instead of individual states.

What next?

Alan


----------



## agod

Wannaberich said:


> From Dec 1st.Nice to read something positive about Dubai for a change.
> Unlike The Times and Guardian,Sky is generally positive about Dubai.
> 
> They are positive about Dubai, because Dubai spends a shitload of money advertising with them.
> 
> Dont want to kill the Golden Goose.
> 
> Alan


----------



## moscowboy

sorry, wrong thread..


----------



## speculator

Cant believe they changed the name. Really. I mean even if AD bought the place why make it so frigging obvious. 

With the Khalifa name does is add value ? Im not sure. The Burj name had a better vibe.

Also wonder who paid for the bangers ?


----------



## Richard Head

High Times said:


> I think the significance of the naming of Burj Khalifa will be more appharent as time goes by. This is the begining of major changes in the management of Dubai/Abu Dhabi as far as i am concerned.
> 
> *Here comes Abu Dubai. :cheers:*


Inclined to agree. This is a huge and very public clip round the ear for Sheikh Mo. "Don't do it again or you'll be straight to bed with no tea". You don't make such a bold and unexpected statement as that with the world watching unless there are broader implications. That said, can only be a good thing for the UAE in the long term, as long as we don't have a tribal civil war before the dust settles !!!


----------



## chefdude

Imre said:


> What is the next step?
> 
> Dubai will be renamed as well ?


Here are a few suggestions

i Abu Dhabi North
ii The Arse end of Abu Dhabi
iii New Essex (On account of the chavvy Emirati Burberry and LV brigade)
:nuts:


----------



## dxbguy

*name change*

At first i was a bit sad about the name change and it would be interesting to know the real reason behind it. 

The obvious one is it was part of a deal.
However, what about another possibility? 

What if is wasn’t part of a deal and just an expression of respect, thanks and unity by Dubai and Abu Dhabi made by a truly benevolent visionary leader? Are we to skeptical to believe that one may exist in today’s world?

Consider this: 
With a name like Burj Kalifia, its unlikely that the government of Abu Dhabi will allow the Burj to become a symbol of a a broken dream? could it be a brilliant master stroke to ensure continued financial support from AD and to once and for all dispel tribal tensions. 

With the development now taking place in Abu Dhai on Yas Island, Al Reem, Sadyiat, the events in Abu Dhabi, Emirates Palace and Etihad, perhaps Dubai and Abu Dhabi offer more to the world and tourism especially as a sum of their 2 parts.

For sure it is an incredible achievement – The Burj K and Dubai as a whole – such an achievement can only make neighbors in the region and across the world jealous and unconformable and Dubai bashing wont stop anytime soon, its just every milestone that is achieved, it makes it a little more harder to justify. 

Well done Dubai and SH MO.


----------



## gerald.d

Imre said:


> It was bad investment if someone has made gifts with the Burj Dubai logo
> 
> Burj Khalifa


I actually think the opposite. Any official Burj Dubai merchandise will only be available for a very limited time.

This is exactly the kind of thing that gets collectors (people with more money than sense) excited.

You can expect to see BD branded merchandise being hawked on Ebay/Souk/dubizzle for way above original selling price within the week I reckon.


----------



## Richard Head

dxbguy said:


> What if is wasn’t part of a deal and just an expression of respect, thanks and unity by Dubai and Abu Dhabi made by a truly benevolent visionary leader? Are we to skeptical to believe that one may exist in today’s world?


Surely if this were the case they would have done this before they spent probaby millions on branding / signage etc. that now all has to be changed. Unless Sheikh Mo just woke up yesterday morning with this bright idea.




dxbguy said:


> With the development now taking place in Abu Dhai on Yas Island, Al Reem, Sadyiat, the events in Abu Dhabi, Emirates Palace and Etihad, perhaps Dubai and Abu Dhabi offer more to the world and tourism especially as a sum of their 2 parts.


But this I agree with. Absolutely a better deal for everybody if the UAE presents a united front to the world instead of the current confusing messages. Even better still if they behaved this way behind closed doors too.


----------



## Porcello

Nobody thinks about the real owners? I thought Burj Dubai was freehold... I don't think it's nice to buy in Burj Dubai and find yourself in Burj Khalifa. And also, has Sheikh Mohammed asked investors the permission to change the name or did he act as the tower was simply his property? This gives me the impression that freehold does not really exist here...


----------



## High Times

gerald.d said:


> I actually think the opposite. Any official Burj Dubai merchandise will only be available for a very limited time.
> 
> This is exactly the kind of thing that gets collectors (people with more money than sense) excited.
> 
> You can expect to see BD branded merchandise being hawked on Ebay/Souk/dubizzle for way above original selling price within the week I reckon.


 
I agree, things that were once mass produced but become rare over time usualy aquire value as collectors pieces. Burj Dubai "toot" was made in masses and much of it will end up in the bin. As long as the tower retains the title of the tallest building on earth memorobilia detailing Burj "Dubai" could well accumalate a sort of nerdy collectable value in the future.


----------



## Jesus.C

*Hi*



June09 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> It great to meet people who has own properties in Fortuanto, i wanted to meet anyone to dchat about and share our problems that we are facing specially with two subjects :
> 
> First : are you happy about the finishing and the materials they used in the 1 BR sample there are doing? as i see the bathroom looks very cheap, the samples they show me when i purchase the property in their office was really great, have you all seen the finishing of the bathroom?
> 
> Second: from what i see it seems that the development is going to take minimum of 6 months while they are claiming it will be by end Feb.!!! and last time i called them they said it will be by the first quarter of 2010 ! so what is next one this matter . they are not being transparent and we are just losing money by paying the bank and rent !!!
> 
> Please lets share and be all one to be able to do something about it, if anyone has an experience with them to share please let us hear it, and what should we do to get compensation of all this delays
> 
> Cheers


Hi Nice to meet u too. Regarding the 2nd point I think the sales contract says that the developer is entitled for 1 year delay from the original completion date which was Aug 09 so even if we try they will still get away with it. In addition al Tajer will blame Nakeel because they handed the land late to the developer so they will ask us to complain to Nhakeel. I visited the site last week and it does not seem it will be completed in 1st Quarter 10 may be June 10 in my opinion. I think they are saying that because of the payment they want the owners to pay on time. I am open for any suggestion or compensation discussion with al tajer but we need to catch them on something 1st.

For the 1st point I will try to check the mock up apartments in the ground floor this week to check the material but what to do if its cheep I care about the kitchen and the bathrooms if the flooring is cheap then ill change them myself after handover no other choice worst part they are not providing basic equipments even in the kitchen this could be a compensation for the delay I think we can insist on that.

Regards 
:smug:


----------



## gerald.d

High Times said:


> ^^^^
> 
> I agree this is a very interesting interview. Allabar has always been good at posotive spin, i gues that's why he is CEO of Emaar.
> 
> If those migration figures he quotes are genuine and i was his PR adviser or indeed that of Dubai PLC I would be publishing them in every reputable outlet possible.
> 
> Maybe a UAE office of national satistics would be a good idea.


There's a Dubai Statistics Center which fulfils that function for the Emirate:

http://www.dsc.gov.ae/en/Pages/Home.aspx

For example -

End 2008:
1,645,973 residents
805,493 workers residing outside Dubai & temporary residents.

End 3rd quarter 2009:
1,749,445 residents
867,800 workers


----------



## iownyou

big players comming into town

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1062010_4d75f8b6312445bf9ca180f5e25c2085.aspx

Two firms to inject Dh2bn in property sector 


Two firms to inject Dh2bn in property sector. (EB FILE) 





By 

Parag Deulgaonkar on Wednesday, January 06, 2010 

Two companies are set to channel more than Dh2 billion into the UAE's property market in the first half of 2010, Emirates Business can reveal.

While Dubai International Holding Company, a private investment firm owned by Sheikh Maktoum Hasher Maktoum Al Maktoum, plans to invest Dh1bn in Dubai's realty market by the first half of 2010, Kenmore Property Group, a UK-based real estate investor, along with a Qatari investor will launch a $300 million (Dh1.1bn) GCC property fund in the first quarter of 2010, which will invest in the UAE market, a person close to deal said.


----------



## iownyou

paul66 said:


> Interesting video after the opening of the Burj Khalifa - CNBC interview with Emaar's chairman...
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1376722761&play=1
> 
> at the end of the video he mentions that Dubai still has 50,000 people moving there every month during these bad times. During the good times, there was 90,000 people per month. Is this true? :nuts:
> 
> Paul



this interview was really good
he covered everything in only few minutes interview and and made it clear how strong of a position dubai is.
i think any one who owns property in dubai now or who will buy soon he/she will be very lucky to own a piece of this wonderful city like no other.


----------



## speculator

^^^^^^

Amazing what a little spin achieves. Dubai needs many more positive people like Allabar. Dubai doesn't need leaders hiding when they are hot under the collar.:cheers:


----------



## High Times

gerald.d said:


> There's a Dubai Statistics Center which fulfils that function for the Emirate:
> 
> http://www.dsc.gov.ae/en/Pages/Home.aspx
> 
> For example -
> 
> End 2008:
> 1,645,973 residents
> 805,493 workers residing outside Dubai & temporary residents.
> 
> End 3rd quarter 2009:
> 1,749,445 residents
> 867,800 workers


Thanks, so 103,000 net growth over 3 quarters (9 months) doesnt equate to 50,000 people coming to Dubai every month during the crisis as Alabbar quoted. Unless of course he forgot to say that 38,000 a month were leaving Dubai also. 

Mandelson would be proud.


----------



## iownyou

High Times said:


> Thanks, so 103,000 net growth over 3 quarters (9 months) doesnt equate to 50,000 people coming to Dubai every month during the crisis as Alabbar quoted. Unless of course he forgot to say that 38,000 a month were leaving Dubai also.
> 
> Mandelson would be proud.


yes ofcourse many people left other wise the population would be much bigger but no matter what people are still moving there opening businesess and working there so that is good enough for me


----------



## AppleMac

High Times said:


> Thanks, so 103,000 net growth over 3 quarters (9 months) doesnt equate to 50,000 people coming to Dubai every month during the crisis as Alabbar quoted.


Considering all the hysterical nonsense about Dubai sinking into the sand, all construction stopped, nobody lending a cent to the country again etc.etc - I'm quite impressed that they managed to show a net growth at all. :applause:


----------



## Mistermark

AppleMac said:


> Considering all the hysterical nonsense about Dubai sinking into the sand, all construction stopped, nobody lending a cent to the country again etc.etc - I'm quite impressed that they managed to show a net growth at all. :applause:


As Winston Churchill (I think it was him) put it, 'There are lies, damn lies - and statistics'.

Or, as Jim Royle might express the same sentiment, 'Dubai's population registered a net increase in 2009, my arse!'


----------



## noir-dresses

Paul cried wolf a hundred time's, and in the end there was no wolf.


----------



## speculator

AppleMac said:


> I'm quite impressed that they managed to show a net growth at all. :applause:


Maybe a mirage ?


----------



## Philippa C

speculator said:


> Maybe a mirage ?[/QUOTE
> 
> If it's anything like the Royal Mirage, that'd be fab


----------



## speculator

Philippa C said:


> speculator said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a mirage ?[/QUOTE
> 
> If it's anything like the Royal Mirage, that'd be fab
> 
> 
> 
> :righton:
Click to expand...


----------



## iced

speculator said:


> ^^^^^^
> 
> Amazing what a little spin achieves. Dubai needs many more positive people like Allabar. Dubai doesn't need leaders hiding when they are hot under the collar.:cheers:


There is positve spin and then there is blatant misrepresentation of which is very good at. Regarding migration it is not clear which socio economic type is entering but i speculate that it is workers on less than 5-3k AED per on average. This may be good for landlords in places like international city.

Dubai does have the infrastructure been developing and that will continue but the picture is far from rosy over the next year. 

The Burj Khalifa is indeed an amazing building although a concern is the correlation between countries with the tallest building followed by economic downtown. 

Dubai continues to be a great place to live but not for property investment near term. Transactions are still not transparent. I am still looking for evidence to suggest that property investment in dubai maybe rewarding from here


----------



## kevin_1980in

Nothing concrete from the developer, it seems they have hired some media agency to publicise themselves.


----------



## shagdash

Latest Harbor Report quote following rates:

JLT - 700-900 psf
Emirates Living - 700-900 psf
Dubai Marina - 800-1200 psf
Downtown - 900-4100 psf
Palm - 1100-3500 psf

http://www.harbordubai.com/harborreport/reports/harborreport2756003.pdf


----------



## speculator

iced said:


> There is positve spin and then there is blatant misrepresentation of which is very good at. Regarding migration it is not clear which socio economic type is entering but i speculate that it is workers on less than 5-3k AED per on average. This may be good for landlords in places like international city.
> 
> Dubai does have the infrastructure been developing and that will continue but the picture is far from rosy over the next year.
> 
> The Burj Khalifa is indeed an amazing building although a concern is the correlation between countries with the tallest building followed by economic downtown.
> 
> Dubai continues to be a great place to live but not for property investment near term. Transactions are still not transparent. I am still looking for evidence to suggest that property investment in dubai maybe rewarding from here



Errm.....you could replace the name Dubai with any other City name and I think the same situation would hold true. Without covering common old ground whats fundamentally really so different in the rest of the world ?


----------



## iced

Wannaberich said:


> Followed by?what do you think has been going on for the last year?


The question is how much further does the downturn last in terms of falling assets...10%, 20% or more!! also it is unclear whether debt obligations can (or will be ) met.


----------



## iced

speculator said:


> Errm.....you could replace the name Dubai with any other City name and I think the same situation would hold true. Without covering common old ground whats fundamentally really so different in the rest of the world ?


Market manipulation by insiders. Yes this occurs elsewhere but they get locked up after boasting about it!! there is greater transparency and legal framework. Plus the fact that Dubai is a frontier market and all this increases risk. Trying to compare a developed market with Dubai is like trying to compare apples with pears.

Dubai, nice place to live, investment is risky since a frontier market with falling asset prices. Greater transparency may help to quantify or aid in decision making. As real reliable information is difficult to obtain i am hoping that to finding something that may help in my decision making. Occasionally there is valuable and useful information posted.


----------



## iced

Wannaberich said:


> I didnt know there was anyone left who didnt realise that AD will be bailing them out as many times as needed.
> Could be wrong but I'd be surprised after recent events.


Be prepared for a surprise then. I think that Dubai has a lot more debt than officially acknowleged. AD may pay some but that will stop at some point especially when the key assets are exchanged and none remain. Recent events have helped to restore some confidence but i still think the waters are murky.


----------



## DXBQuantum

lifes to short to give a s*** about recessions, just keep building higher and higher...


----------



## AppleMac

iced said:


> Dubai continues to be a great place to live but not for property investment near term.


excellent news - Dubai has had far too much property speculation and a period of calm wouldn't go amiss at all.


----------



## Imre

*Japan consortium to stop work on Dubai Metro - Nikkei*

A consortium of four Japanese companies and one Turkish company will suspend construction of the Dubai Metro due to a delay in payment from the Dubai government, the Nikkei business daily reported.

The consortium, headed by general contractor Obayashi Corp, has received about 490 billion yen ($5.3 billion) worth of orders to build the metro from Dubai's Roads & Transport Authority but the actual construction costs are expected to be double that, the Nikkei said.

The consortium decided to halt work and focus on talks with the Dubai government to secure back payments, the Nikkei said.

A spokesman for Obayashi said the company was in talks with the government on additional costs due to design changes.

"The pace of construction has been slowed down. But we have not suspended the work," the official said.

Dubai sent shockwaves through global markets in November when it said it would request a standstill on billions of dollars of debts linked to the state-held holding firm Dubai World and its property units Limitless and Nakheel, developer of three palm-shaped islands.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100107/748/tbs-japan-consortium-to-stop-work-on-dub.html


----------



## speculator

iced said:


> Be prepared for a surprise then. I think that Dubai has a lot more debt than officially acknowleged. AD may pay some but that will stop at some point especially when the key assets are exchanged and none remain. Recent events have helped to restore some confidence but i still think the waters are murky.


Again whats the difference if you replace the name Dubai with say US or UK. Same situation or probably worse situation for them. 

Anyway yes cant compare apple's & pear's.




iced said:


> Plus the fact that Dubai is a frontier market and all this increases risk.
> 
> .


:lol::lol: Some fresh news then :lol::lol:


----------



## Imre

Imre said:


> *Japan consortium to stop work on Dubai Metro - Nikkei*
> 
> http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100107/748/tbs-japan-consortium-to-stop-work-on-dub.html


*RTA: DURL Consortium continues construction works of Dubai Metro Project *

The Dubai Roads & Transport Authority (RTA) confirms that Dubai Rail Link (DURL) Consortium is continuing with the construction works of Dubai Metro Project according to the planned schedule, and work is progressing normally at various sites in both the Red & Green Lines to finalize the remaining works of the project; which has completed significant phases. This is reflected by the project progress in the opening of the initial phase on 09 September 2009, and the opening of the station neighbouring Burj Khalifa on 3 January 2010 i.e. four days ago. RTA also reiterates its contractual commitments to the flow of payments in accordance with the progress of work made in the project. 

RTA was surprised with some media channels circulating inaccurate reports about the project; whose work progress can be seen by everyone at various sites.

http://dubaiconstructionupdate.blogspot.com/2010/01/rta-durl-consortium-continues.html


----------



## TerryPop

*iii*

Lest we forget,

when the global upturn kicks in Dubai's own revenues are going to increase, and as a leaner entity (leaner on spending as it is now forced to be) we will all be rich again.


_*The government's 2010 revenues are projected to reach 29.4 billion dirhams, the statement said.
Expenditure stands at 35.4 billion, down from 37.7 billion budgeted for 2009........expenditure could rise by 7 percent this year.....and revenues will increase as the global economy recovers from a downturn.*_




Don't you worry- you see


----------



## TerryPop

Wannaberich said:


> *Kuwait real estate sales up 41%*
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/577828-kuwait-real-estate-sales-up-41


Big question:

Have residential rental rates on completed property stabilised?

Its kind of hard to tell within a year as a landlord, because the tenants are there for a whole year.

I brought apartments to market in May09 and Nov09- rents were exactly the same- about 40% of their peak.

I have to wait a year on those months to know for sure.... fucking hell- so fucking annoying. ****.


----------



## TerryPop

I kind of see the stabilisation of residential rents as marking the bottom of this trough basically- thats why I ask- apologies for my use of French




TerryPop said:


> Big question:
> 
> Have residential rental rates on completed property stabilised?
> 
> Its kind of hard to tell within a year as a landlord, because the tenants are there for a whole year.
> 
> I brought apartments to market in May09 and Nov09- rents were exactly the same- about 40% of their peak.
> 
> I have to wait a year on those months to know for sure.... fucking hell- so fucking annoying. ****.


----------



## Mistermark

TerryPop said:


> Big question:
> 
> Have residential rental rates on completed property stabilised?
> 
> Its kind of hard to tell within a year as a landlord, because the tenants are there for a whole year.
> 
> I brought apartments to market in May09 and Nov09- rents were exactly the same- about 40% of their peak.
> 
> I have to wait a year on those months to know for sure.... fucking hell- so fucking annoying. ****.


I think rates in the Marina and JLT have hardened about 10% since the summer.


----------



## TerryPop

Mistermark said:


> I think rates in the Marina and JLT have hardened about 10% since the summer.


Thats not bad at all, it means we could be in a better place Dec 2010.

Maybe we are through the worst of it...


----------



## sidxb

TerryPop said:


> Lest we forget,
> 
> when the global upturn kicks in Dubai's own revenues are going to increase, and as a leaner entity (leaner on spending as it is now forced to be) we will all be rich again.
> 
> 
> _*The government's 2010 revenues are projected to reach 29.4 billion dirhams, the statement said.
> Expenditure stands at 35.4 billion, down from 37.7 billion budgeted for 2009........expenditure could rise by 7 percent this year.....and revenues will increase as the global economy recovers from a downturn.*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you worry- you see


Oil price is hovering above 80 $ / barrel . With increased petrodollar , there would be more activity in GCC. Dubai being the major trade hub and also since regional offices of many MNCs based in Dubai , any stabilization ( read increase ) in oil prices would help Dubai.

This is apart from improvement due to increase in international trade or tourism.


----------



## TerryPop

sidxb said:


> Oil price is hovering above 80 $ / barrel . With increased petrodollar , there would be more activity in GCC. Dubai being the major trade hub and also since regional offices of many MNCs based in Dubai , any stabilization ( read increase ) in oil prices would help Dubai.
> 
> This is apart from improvement due to increase in international trade or tourism.


They do say emerging markets have the sharpest angles in both their falls and rises...

Nice to hear that on oil, any thoughts on where the price of oil will end up, Dec2010?


----------



## Mission is back

iced said:


> Be prepared for a surprise then. I think that Dubai has a lot more debt than officially acknowleged. AD may pay some but that will stop at some point especially when the key assets are exchanged and none remain. Recent events have helped to restore some confidence but i still think the waters are murky.



Why would AD want Dubai to suffer?. If AD invested in so much in Dubai i am sure they wont let Dubai go down the pan. Also, remember Dubai and AD are part of the uae. They wont let it happen....


----------



## speculator

The new smoking ban will surely have an impact on an already fragile commercial market.

They couldn't of thought of this at a more opportune time. Obviously the impact of this ban within UAE is greatest in Dubai.

http://abudhabiliving.net/node/1275


----------



## smussuw

^^ :nuts:


----------



## speculator

smussuw said:


> ^^ :nuts:


^^^^:nuts::nuts:

OK maybe you did not understand. The first paragraph :


_"The federal law, issued by President His Highness Shaikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, restricts the sale and promotion of tobacco products in the country and bans *coffee shops* that offer tobacco products from doing business in residential buildings and neighbourhoods "_

Many coffee & shisha shops operate within the commercial podiums of residential towers. Coffee & shisha joints suffer due to this ban. 

To help you further let me give you very simple example : in the UK when this smoking ban came in the drinkers ventured out onto the street with **** and beer & many stopped going to the pub or restaurant and now prefer a Chinese or Indian take away and smoking & drinking at home. The off license shops had a bumper run due to this. Not sure now as haven't been back to UK for a several months. Sales for plasma TV's also went up. On a call out to my home my Panasonic TV engineer told me this. He said theyd never sold as many TV's before.

Do you understand now ? ComprehendO ?


----------



## Richard Head

speculator said:


> ^^^^:nuts::nuts:


^^^^^^^^^^:nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:

To clarify further, :nuts::nuts::nuts:


----------



## smussuw

speculator said:


> ^^^^:nuts::nuts:
> 
> OK maybe you did not understand. The first paragraph :
> 
> 
> _"The federal law, issued by President His Highness Shaikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, restricts the sale and promotion of tobacco products in the country and bans *coffee shops* that offer tobacco products from doing business in residential buildings and neighbourhoods "_


I am very anti-tobacco so this decision is good. Why do u even want them to offer it in residents and neighborhoods anyway? It is filthy and smelly and being close to neighborhoods would affect negatively the area.


----------



## peacesells

speculator said:


> ^^^^:nuts::nuts:
> Many coffee & shisha shops operate within the commercial podiums of residential towers. Coffee & shisha joints suffer due to this ban.
> 
> To help you further let me give you very simple example : in the UK when this smoking ban came in the drinkers ventured out onto the street with **** and beer & many stopped going to the pub or restaurant and now prefer a Chinese or Indian take away and smoking & drinking at home. The off license shops had a bumper run due to this. Not sure now as haven't been back to UK for a several months. Sales for plasma TV's also went up. On a call out to my home my Panasonic TV engineer told me this. He said theyd never sold as many TV's before.
> 
> Do you understand now ? ComprehendO ?


And how is this a bad thing? You said it yourself - some people stop spending money in bars and instead spend money on Chinese takeaway and plasma TVs. What is the problem? Your shisha place will close and a Chinese restaurant will take its place, all for the good of the community. Smoking bans are sign of progressive thinking within the government, not further downfall in commercial real estate.


----------



## speculator

^^^^^^

Its not the smoking ethics that we should be discussing. My point is the impact on commercial units. Smelly or not im certain it will have an impact as im sure 100's of these shisha places exist.

As for Chinese or Indian takeaways im not sure Dubai can support too many of these. So its as simple as that is it. Close the Shisha and hey presto a takeaway opens up next week.:lol::lol: Sorry life aint as simple as that.

Well anyway....


----------



## sidxb

speculator said:


> ^^^^^^
> 
> Its not the smoking ethics that we should be discussing. My point is the impact on commercial units. Smelly or not im certain it will have an impact as im sure 100's of these shisha places exist.
> 
> Well anyway....


Irrespective of ethics , I believe this ban is already in place in Dubai for more than a year. They banned shisha shops in residential areas and smoking is not allowed in restaurants / bars without license from DM . Initially there was big resistance to it , not sure to what extent is it already implemented in Dubai.


----------



## Mistermark

smussuw said:


> I am very anti-tobacco so this decision is good. Why do u even want them to offer it in residents and neighborhoods anyway? It is filthy and smelly and being close to neighborhoods would affect negatively the area.


Me too :banana:. If people want to risk lung cancer for themselves, that's their decision. I don't see why they should risk my life too.


----------



## speculator

sidxb said:


> Irrespective of ethics , I believe this ban is already in place in Dubai for more than a year. They banned shisha shops in residential areas and smoking is not allowed in restaurants / bars without license from DM . Initially there was big resistance to it , not sure to what extent is it already implemented in Dubai.


So that explains it all. That's the reason why commercial is in trouble.




Wannaberich said:


> Talking about smelly things.Now that Dubai taxi drivers are given deodorant are they now taking more passengers?


That im *SURE* depends on the deodorant.  Hope it doesn't stop them from taking a shower though.


----------



## Richard Head

speculator said:


> Hope it doesn't stop them from taking a shower though.


Shower? :lol:. On those wages they live 12 to a room and share a flannel which they leave out at night to collect condensation.


----------



## Richard Head

This whole page is off topic. Time to bring it back. 

Errr............so, Property and investment in Dubai. What do people reckon about that then?


----------



## peacesells

speculator said:


> ^^^^^^
> 
> Its not the smoking ethics that we should be discussing. My point is the impact on commercial units. Smelly or not im certain it will have an impact as im sure 100's of these shisha places exist.
> 
> As for Chinese or Indian takeaways im not sure Dubai can support too many of these. So its as simple as that is it. Close the Shisha and hey presto a takeaway opens up next week.:lol::lol: Sorry life aint as simple as that.
> 
> Well anyway....


Here is a review of studies done on smoking bans and their effect on business.

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/12/1/13

Shisha places constitute at best 1% of all commercial space out there and are never just about shisha - they sell tea, coffee and are basically your typical cafes with an arabic twist. Remove shisha and you are basically a cafe with an arabic twist attracting more families and people who hate the smoke. So no, I think this ban will have no or positive impact on business and therefore real estate.


----------



## IISinbadII

TerryPop said:


> Big question:
> 
> Its kind of hard to tell within a year as a landlord, because the tenants are there for a whole year.


Dont count on it. hno:

Thanks to multiple checks being a norm and people loosing jobs, tenants come and go as they please. And there are so many cases of bounced checks that nobody cares any more. :bash:


----------



## TerryPop

IISinbadII said:


> Dont count on it. hno:
> 
> Thanks to multiple checks being a norm and people loosing jobs, tenants come and go as they please. And there are so many cases of bounced checks that nobody cares any more. :bash:



Some of our units are rented out on 4 cheques.

The tenants are sh*t scared of bouncing a cheque-they call in to make sure its going to clear.

So with our small selection of Dubai property I have not found a "come and go" mentality at all amongst tenants.

Not one of our tenants has left, and I have told them all if they lose their jobs they are fine to go with 3 months notice.


----------



## Pleth

Mission is back said:


> Why would AD want Dubai to suffer?. If AD invested in so much in Dubai i am sure they wont let Dubai go down the pan. Also, remember Dubai and AD are part of the uae. They wont let it happen....


With Dubai's key assets taken over by Abu Dhabi, the income to Dubai is getting less and less.
Dubai will not survive so Abu Dhabi's dream of taking over Dubai will be easy.


----------



## smussuw

^^ key assets like what?


----------



## 234sale

^^ ?
Emirates Airline.
DubaL.
Dubai World.


----------



## Pleth

234sale said:


> ^^ ?
> Emirates Airline.
> DubaL.
> Dubai World.


+ Half of Sheikh Zayed Road (the tallest end)


----------



## AITU

234sale said:


> ^^ ?
> Emirates Airline.
> DubaL.
> Dubai World.


^^Do you actually have any hard facts to back that up?


----------



## AITU

Pleth said:


> With Dubai's key assets taken over by Abu Dhabi, the income to Dubai is getting less and less.
> Dubai will not survive so Abu Dhabi's dream of taking over Dubai will be easy.


^^I don't think you understand the whole, "one country" thing?


----------



## smussuw

sidxb said:


> Irrespective of ethics , I believe this ban is already in place in Dubai for more than a year. They banned shisha shops in residential areas and smoking is not allowed in restaurants / bars without license from DM . Initially there was big resistance to it , not sure to what extent is it already implemented in Dubai.


The law also gave them 2 years to relocate so it will hardly affect them that much anyway ......


----------



## smussuw

234sale said:


> ^^ ?
> Emirates Airline.
> DubaL.
> Dubai World.


I mean ones that were bought by Abu Dhabi as he was suggesting ...


----------



## June09

Hi Jesus.C

i just saw your reply thought i will receive notice to my email. anyway ! have you read the whole sale contract ? do you remember where was it, frankly i couldn't read it all and if they really do have it thats mean we can't do anything about it. 
the developer always complain about that Nakheel has delay by handed them the land, at this point they should realize that they have to increase the work force to finish on time. there are lots of case study of development been done and real short time for example al mas tower in JLT. by the time i purchase my apartment they were only about the floor 10 !!! and now it over with 75 floor, it not our fault if they misperception this fact.

it seems they stopped finishing the mock up have you gone there this week ? any progress on it .. the ceramic tile they used for the bathroom wall is very cheap, it seems they are compromising on the quality to make more money.. we don't want to end up with finishing as the international city one! that will effect the after sale big time.

so what shall we do as first step and how to get more people as well to discuss it all together, we should fix meeting with the developer for an answers.

Cheers dude


----------



## gerald.d

TerryPop said:


> Some of our units are rented out on 4 cheques.
> 
> The tenants are sh*t scared of bouncing a cheque-they call in to make sure its going to clear.
> 
> So with our small selection of Dubai property I have not found a "come and go" mentality at all amongst tenants.
> 
> Not one of our tenants has left, and I have told them all if they lose their jobs they are fine to go with 3 months notice.


There's some problem going on at the moment with HSBC bouncing cheques, not because there's no money in the account, but because they have redesigned their cheques and are only honouring the new ones. You may want to check it out.


----------



## sidxb

Pleth said:


> + Half of Sheikh Zayed Road (the tallest end)


Taxi driver also told me about
- du telecom
- Emirates tower ( Sheikh zayed road other end )
- Dubai Airport


As for hard facts to back it up , he did swear that another passenger told him and that passenger A also included JBR but passenger B refuted JBR saying that its owned by individual owners :lol:


----------



## glover

*Woman arrested after rape claim for illegal sex and drinking (in Dubai)*

_this really belongs to the middle ages and the surreal. dubai can't claim to be tolerant and open-minded yet act like this. as far as i know, dubai laws are not islamic, like in saudi or iran. and if they were, i will be the first one out of this country .

this will scare investors and tourists for sure, and will bring unwanted negative press! who is the moron behind this prosecution!_

----------------------------------------
The National staff

* Last Updated: January 09. 2010 2:22AM UAE / January 8. 2010 10:22PM GMT

DUBAI // A British woman on holiday in Dubai with her fiance reported a rape to the police only to be arrested herself for illegal sex and drinking.

The woman, a 23-year-old of Pakistani descent, was in the emirate for a three-day break, celebrating her engagement.

But on New Year’s Eve she was allegedly attacked by a waiter while semi-conscious in a hotel toilet. When she reported the attack at the Jebel Ali police station the following morning, she was arrested, after reportedly admitting to illegal drinking and having sexual intercourse outside marriage.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100109/NATIONAL/701089754/1010


----------



## smussuw

:blahblah:


----------



## Pleth

glover said:


> _this really belongs to the middle ages and the surreal. dubai can't claim to be tolerant and open-minded yet act like this. as far as i know, dubai laws are not islamic, like in saudi or iran. and if they were, i will be the first one out of this country .
> 
> this will scare investors and tourists for sure, and will bring unwanted negative press! who is the moron behind this prosecution!_
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> The National staff
> 
> * Last Updated: January 09. 2010 2:22AM UAE / January 8. 2010 10:22PM GMT
> 
> DUBAI // A British woman on holiday in Dubai with her fiance reported a rape to the police only to be arrested herself for illegal sex and drinking.
> 
> The woman, a 23-year-old of Pakistani descent, was in the emirate for a three-day break, celebrating her engagement.
> 
> But on New Year’s Eve she was allegedly attacked by a waiter while semi-conscious in a hotel toilet. When she reported the attack at the Jebel Ali police station the following morning, she was arrested, after reportedly admitting to illegal drinking and having sexual intercourse outside marriage.
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100109/NATIONAL/701089754/1010


To put it shortly:
It is illegal for a Muslim to drink alcohol in any Muslim country. End of story.

Luckily she was in Dubai, if she were in her home country she would probably have the death sentence.


----------



## 234sale

Pleth said:


> To put it shortly:
> End of story.


Yep, please use sky majlis for this stuff. 

Thread there for it.

Sorry if I just deleted your post,.


----------



## 234sale

smussuw said:


> I mean ones that were bought by Abu Dhabi as he was suggesting ...


, my mistake...


----------



## Adel

Pleth said:


> To put it shortly:
> It is illegal for a Muslim to drink alcohol in any Muslim country. End of story.
> 
> Luckily she was in Dubai, if she were in her home country she would probably have the death sentence.


No that's not true


----------



## speculator

Pleth said:


> To put it shortly:
> she would probably have the death sentence.


Thats like saying Jesus was a white man. Come on get a grip of the world and dont be so myopic.


----------



## speculator

peacesells said:


> Here is a review of studies done on smoking bans and their effect on business.
> 
> http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/12/1/13
> 
> Shisha places constitute at best 1% of all commercial space out there and are never just about shisha - they sell tea, coffee and are basically your typical cafes with an arabic twist. Remove shisha and you are basically a cafe with an arabic twist attracting more families and people who hate the smoke. So no, I think this ban will have no or positive impact on business and therefore real estate.


Valid point. Very credible & enlightening.


----------



## dubaimat

Ticket to top of Burj Khalifa now Dh400

DUBAI // There can be no doubt that the observation deck of the Burj Khalifa offers an unparalleled view of Dubai. But it comes at a price – and yesterday that price almost doubled.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100109/NATIONAL/701089762/1040/SPORT

What a rip-off!!!hno:


----------



## Philippa C

Wannaberich said:


> I reckon to entice new investors they should give any new buyers free deodorant for life with their units.
> 
> 
> (Look at how I merged the two subjects.How clever)
> 
> :banana:


"Rexona Tower" has a certain ring to it


----------



## AltinD

gerald.d said:


> There's some problem going on at the moment with HSBC bouncing cheques, not because there's no money in the account, but because they have redesigned their cheques and are only honouring the new ones. You may want to check it out.


My rent cheques are from HSBC and they are the old ones. The first is supposed to get cleared today. Will see what will happen


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The scum from the gurardian still dubai bashing http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2010/jan/10/burj-khalifa-dubai-skyscraper-architecture



> Dubai is built entirely on a capitalism whose nakedness is clothed only in bling. And if that continues, the Burj Khalifa will stand as a symbol of a meretricious, credit-fuelled era in which no one with any choice would wish to live.


----------



## Pleth

Dubai_Steve said:


> The scum from the gurardian still dubai bashing http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2010/jan/10/burj-khalifa-dubai-skyscraper-architecture


To be honest I have never seen SO much Dubai bashing in my life! Based on rumours, - well I won't even comment.
I checked her name and it turns out that she wrote a "bashing" book that was banned from publishing and selling in Dubai in February 2009, so that probably explains her hatred. http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2009/feb/17/dubai-literary-festival-bedell-ban
The problem is that this article is closed for comments. hno:


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*New deal to stop rogue Dubai real estate operators*

New deal to stop rogue Dubai real estate operators

Transparency and professionalism will increase within Dubai's real estate sector after a new agreement between the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) and the Ministry of Labour (MoL), officials said on Sunday.

The deal will see real estate brokers in the emirate officially recognised as a separate professional category - allowing RERA to further clampdown on rogue operators.

New labour cards and residency visas issued to property brokers will now include their specific job title, replacing the previous practice of categorising them all as sales staff, RERA said in a statement.

Marwan bin Ghulaita, CEO of RERA, said the aim of the move was to increase transparency and professionalism in an industry that has been hit hard by the impact of the global economic crisis.

"This is the first step towards a complete classification of the real estate professions in Dubai."

Last year, RERA announced plans to stop freelancers from operating in the emirate's property sector under an agreement signed with the Department of Economic Development (DED).

Bin Ghulaita added: "The overall effect will be to increase transparency and professionalism across the sector. This in turn will boost confidence in property dealings and in the networks of agents and third parties investors depend on to execute their transactions."

RERA is close to finalising a comprehensive agreement with the MoL which will see all the professions it registers - such as valuers, consultants, mortgage brokers, agents, and surveyors - formally recognised as separate job categories by the Ministry. 

"The Ministry has now approved the first step of officially recognising broker as a professional category and this will be included in all the related professional and operations documents," Bin Ghulaita said.

The step effectively completes a three-stage formal approvals procedure of registration, licensing and now labour permit and residency visa to support RERA's campaign to outlaw rogue practitioners. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/578287-new-deal-to-stop-rogue-dubai-real-estate-operators


----------



## Opus 2009

AltinD said:


> My rent cheques are from HSBC and they are the old ones. The first is supposed to get cleared today. Will see what will happen



I understand that HSBC will continue honouring the old cheques until July 31, 2010.


----------



## TerryPop

As an investor in the UAE - all things are important.

You do need to understand the judiciary, the economy and the culture.

This allows you to make an informed descision.

The fact that this guy was aquitted is relevant. If you saw the tape then you would know what I am talking about. 

Shk Issa has been aquitted - http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidA...r Of UAE President Acquitted In Torture Trial


----------



## dubai banks

*Chapal the presidency*

Does anyone have any news on this tower? We are purchasing a one bed apt on 20th floor. Where is the construction up to now? Does anyone have any photos?


----------



## dubaimat

TerryPop said:


> As an investor in the UAE - all things are important.
> 
> You do need to understand the judiciary, the economy and the culture.
> 
> This allows you to make an informed descision.
> 
> The fact that this guy was aquitted is relevant. If you saw the tape then you would know what I am talking about.
> 
> Shk Issa has been aquitted - http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidA...r Of UAE President Acquitted In Torture Trial


well, there are those problems related to memory loss, what a jerk:

Sheikh Issa found not guilty

Marten Youssef

* Last Updated: January 10. 2010 3:58PM UAE / January 10. 2010 11:58AM GMT

Sheikh Issa bin Zayed al Nahyan was acquitted today of abusing an Afghani grain merchant on grounds of diminished responsibility.

He was one of seven defendants who faced charges in a 2004 incident that took place on an Al Ain farm and was captured on video.

Five of the other six defendants were found guilty, and a security guard was also cleared.

Sheikh Issa, 40, who is a son of Sheikh Zayed, holds no official government position.

Bassam and Ghassan Nabulsi, former business partners of the Sheikh, who filmed and kept the video tape were sentenced in absentia to five years each in prison. A portion of the video was broadcast on an American television station.

Sheikh Issa was charged with rape, endangering a life and causing bodily harm.

*Sheikh Issa’s attorney previously argued that his client was on dozens of medications and that he was also drugged by the Nabulsi brothers. He told the court the Nabulsi brothers orchestrated the incident and filmed it to use as black mail.

A forensic medicine expert told the court in the previous hearing the medication Sheikh Issa was on “can cause anger, suicide, violence, depression and loss of memory”.*

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100110/NATIONAL/100119987/1133


----------



## noir-dresses

The UAE is turning into the Benny Hill Show.


----------



## 234sale

^^ Bit like the Iraq War,, Tony Blair,, innocent unless proven guilty.... "Behind Closed Door Enquiry".....


----------



## rye787

TerryPop said:


> Shk Issa has been aquitted


This story depresses me far more than anything else I have read about the uae.


----------



## TerryPop

rye787 said:


> This story depresses me far more than anything else I have read about the uae.


Because so many people saw the video, and saw him screaming at the guy with the camera to "bring it closer" and "show his suffering"- I think this verdict will do untold damage.

I am relieved that Muslims the world over find this as vile and hiddeous as I do.

I went on some forums and Muslims were united in their shock- it really is importantto me to know that this is not considered acceptable.

Perhaps we are all naive- I swear I don;t know anymore!


----------



## noir-dresses

Your not naive, as long as they let the west use there region for strategic purpose's, they west will turn a blind eye when thing's like this happen.

It's the middle east for god sake's, never forget where you are, this has been going on forever there.


----------



## sidxb

TerryPop said:


> I am relieved that Muslims the world over find this as vile and hiddeous as I do.
> 
> I went on some forums and Muslims were united in their shock- it really is importantto me to know that this is not considered acceptable.


Yes , it was cruel video and not only Muslims but everyone is united in their shock. Ever wondered why Sheikh crossed his limit ? Because he knew that Afghan guy would not be protected by his embassy.

Ever wondered why Afghan guy can not be protected by his embassy ? because his country was screwed in last 20 years due to proxy war between US and USSR and than US desire to create basis in the region.

I find the comments amazing when noir says that west is turning a 'blind eye' to all this. As if west has no dirty deeds to hide ? Probably they are turning blind eye thinking ... argh , this is nothing to what we did in Afghanistan.

I must appreciate the western media where they actually made people realize that they are bombing Iraq and Afghanistan for world peace hno:

The video was cruel and the screams were heart breaking but in case you followed news related to this case , I think that I read , the afghan guy was brought to court but he did not press charges against Sheikh. I dont think court can do much after that. The guy lost his dignity and almost his life but uncle sam has given the world its 'peace' .

Incase you ever talk to an Afghan guy ( There are many traders in Deira cloth market ) you would realize that torture , exploitation is everyday fact in there country . Sad but true


----------



## TerryPop

BBC world right now people!!!!


TV's on and watch.


----------



## noir-dresses

Sidxb, did not say it was rite they turn a blind eye, but that's the way it is.

Could you imagine what's going threw the mind of the victim ? If he stay's in the UAE he done, and if he goes back to Afganistan he's even more screwed.


----------



## AltinD

^^ The Clash of thoughts


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> Get used to it cos I dont think it will get better anytime soon.


DUBAI (Zawya Dow Jones)--Amid intense scrutiny of its economic problems Dubai established Sunday a new media office to help promote the emirate in a better light and monitor the press.

The department, known as the Media Office for Dubai Government, will combine existing state public relations units Dubai Press Club, Falcon & Associates and Brand Dubai in an effort to portray an "accurate picture" of the emirate, a statement from the ruler's office said.

Dubai officials, including the ruler Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum blame the international press for criticizing the emirate after its shock announcement on Nov. 25 that it will seek a standstill for Dubai World's $22 billion of debt.

Dubai's finance chief, Abdulrahman Al Saleh, last month blamed the media for spreading "blind panic" about the emirate's financial woes following the standstill request that triggered a downgrade of many of its banks and government-owned companies.

The sheikdom, which already closely monitors the media, has come under intense scrutiny as it struggles to contain the estimated $80 billion of debt, mostly racked up by its government-owned companies building speculative real estate and infrastructure projects.


GREATER CONTROL


"It's another sign of greater autocratic control," said Christopher Davidson, author of the book "Dubai: The Vulnerability of Success" and a professor of Middle East politics at Durham University in the U.K. "There is a growing anti-Western tinge to Dubai, especially towards the British press."

The Sunday Times, published in the U.K., was ordered off shelves in the United Arab Emirates on Nov. 29 after the paper carried a double-page graphic illustrating Dubai's ruler, Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum, sinking in a sea of debt. Its sister publication, The Times, was censored in the U.A.E. on Dec. 5 for a story that described Sheik Mohammed as a "benign dictator" and criticized his management of the economy.

The Sunday Times and The Times are part of News International, a unit of News Corp., owner of Dow Jones & Co, publisher of this newswire.

Gulf News, a newspaper part-owned by a senior government minister in the U.A.E., told its journalists to avoid using the words "bailout" and "default" when writing about Dubai's debt crisis, according to an internal memo sent to staff and seen by Zawya Dow Jones last month.

Headed by Ahmed Al Shaikh, the new media office "will guarantee the highlighting of facts without any vagueness" and "muster all needed resources and capabilities to portray an accurate picture of all what is happening on the ground," according to the statement.

The office will also monitor news coverage of Dubai and provide the press with information about the ruler Sheik Mohammed and the emirate.

"Dubai can rebuild its reputation by having the right strategy around them and by not only going into media," said Abed Bibi, managing partner of Wolff Olins, a branding firm in Dubai. "It needs advertising as well and a bunch of people to rework its brand."

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100110-702722.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines


----------



## Dubai_Steve

MANAMA: Few cities have made the news as much as Dubai in recent weeks - most of it bad.

The media sharks circled following holding company Dubai World's SOS over its massive debts, with some predicting the collapse of the emirate's economy.

Simon Jenkins, a former editor of The Times newspaper, predicted that "the towers of Dubai...will collapse", that "sand will drift round their trunkless legs" and that "animals will inhabit their basements."

The article, he says, attracted strongly -worded complaints and criticism from people in Dubai and the Gulf.

So it is little surprise Dubai should be the focus of the latest broadcast in the Doha Debates series, aired last night on BBC World.

The debates are held before an audience largely made up of students from the country's high-profile universities - who put their questions to public figures.

The latest was held on the motion: 'This House Believes Dubai is a bad Idea."

Jenkins, one of Dubai's most prominent critics last year, was joined by Emirati human rights activist Sharla Musabih, who has been living in the US since running a Dubai-based centre for abused women and children, in making the case for the motion.

Opposing them were UAE-based economic analyst Nasser Al Ghaith and Mishal Kanoo, deputy chairman of Bahrain-based Kanoo Group, one of the largest independent groups of companies in the Gulf.

Mr Kanoo could not hide his irritation at Dubai's financial crisis being used as an excuse for a debate on the emirate's very existence, as he spoke to the GDN before the show. "To be honest, part of me is really insulted by the motion."

He said he could not understand why the poor performance of state-backed companies in Dubai was being used as a means to criticise the government, rather than the management of such firms, given the bailouts elsewhere.

He also made the point that the world's major economies were far bigger than the UAE's to learn how to regulate themselves.

"Why would you expect a country that is literally 38 years old, younger than I am, to be on par with those large countries, those economically-developed countries?" he asked.

He blasted the British Press in particular, alleging that The Guardian newspaper had run 74 negative stories about Dubai in 17 days, following the news of Dubai World's troubles. Such coverage presented a distorted view of the emirate, he believes.

"When I started hearing about this huge issue about Dubai I said, you know what, if I travel today and I come back, the doors will be shut. Which of course is not the case; we still have functioning businesses and entities which are still profitable in Dubai. Granted it is not the same profitability as maybe two years ago, but they are still profitable."

Mr Al Ghaith said Dubai's growth in recent years had been a much-needed success story for the Middle East.

"Dubai represented what is possible in the Middle East. It showed how to make everything from nothing, because Dubai had no oil revenues, compared with other states - like Iraq or Algeria - which made nothing from everything," he told the GDN.

But he depicted a fault-line between Dubai's initial economic growth and the fanfare surrounding mega-projects.

"Dubai until 2003, was a very good model which was based on a sound economic basis. Unfortunately, what happened in 2003 was the (creation of the) so-called real estate adventure model. It was a real estate adventure, heavily dependent on borrowing. Real estate is never sustainable."

The construction of outlandish real estate projects, particularly as the first effects of the global financial crisis began to bite elsewhere, made Dubai vulnerable to a backlash, said Mr Jenkins. "The form of (Dubai's) self-confidence was so in your face, this wasn't just a stock market boom, this was a boom in property in the most ostentatious way."

Ultimately Mr Kanoo' and Al Ghaith's optimism carried the day, with the motion defeated by 62 per cent to 38 in an audience vote. "Let's face it, even today, with all the negative Press about Dubai, if you ask the average person in the Arab world 'where would you want to go to set up your business?' or 'where would you want to go to prosper?' I promise you Dubai will still be high on his list."

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=268304


----------



## Guest89

I want to ask the media why aren't they reporting that London and Los Angeles to name a few are in such debt that makes Dubai pale in comparison. What happened to the US being 12 Trillion in debt and rising? What happened to other cities? No city is immune and neither is Dubai. The whole Dubai debt crisis is blown out of proportions. You want to talk about debt problems? The United States wins in that category with debt it wount be able to pay off during the next 2,3,4 generations. The media should hail Dubai for at least admitting its problem and working to resolve it whilst the US continues to spend billions and billions on banks that give that money to their employees in bonuses whilst AIG and other entities sleep on beds made out of money and flying in personal jets to Hawaii on holiday. Where is the outrage from the media? Dubai should be the least of their worries given what other countries spend and how much debt they are in!


----------



## TerryPop

Guest89 said:


> I want to ask the media why aren't they reporting that London and Los Angeles to name a few are in such debt that makes Dubai pale in comparison. What happened to the US being 12 Trillion in debt and rising? What happened to other cities? No city is immune and neither is Dubai. The whole Dubai debt crisis is blown out of proportions. You want to talk about debt problems? The United States wins in that category with debt it wount be able to pay off during the next 2,3,4 generations. The media should hail Dubai for at least admitting its problem and working to resolve it whilst the US continues to spend billions and billions on banks that give that money to their employees in bonuses whilst AIG and other entities sleep on beds made out of money and flying in personal jets to Hawaii on holiday. Where is the outrage from the media? Dubai should be the least of their worries given what other countries spend and how much debt they are in!



Well said 

To be honest I suspect the more Dubai reacts to their coverage the more they'll keep doing it (just to get the response).


----------



## TerryPop

Sky news is showing parts of the torture tape today and telling the story.

Interesting as I thought they were in UAE's pocket- 

I still feel that this story alone should make every investor here consider their position- not necessarily leave- but assess what they are really part of & contributing to....sad really.


----------



## Richard Head

TerryPop said:


> Sky news is showing parts of the torture tape today and telling the story.
> 
> Interesting as I thought they were in UAE's pocket-
> 
> I still feel that this story alone should make every investor here consider their position- not necessarily leave- but assess what they are really part of & contributing to....sad really.


Terry, I'm not condoning this barbaric act, or the legal system that has supported it, but your reaction is a little extreme. Should all foreigners in the USA "consider their position" because OJ Simpson committed an equally barbaric crime and got away with it thanks to a bent legal system? In fact that case was worse in reality, because two people died.


----------



## DXBQuantum

Well said... 

Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson.....

give me a break...


----------



## TerryPop

Richard Head said:


> Terry, I'm not condoning this barbaric act, or the legal system that has supported it, but your reaction is a little extreme. Should all foreigners in the USA "consider their position" because OJ Simpson committed an equally barbaric crime and got away with it thanks to a bent legal system? In fact that case was worse in reality, because two people died.



Maybe you are right... I don't know anymore. 

I feel the UAE is actively seeking our investment- basically I feel let down.


----------



## Guest89

Why isn't the media exposing more from Bush and Cheney's torture programme that killed many people in the hope they would link Saddam to Al Qaida? Just a simple question. Where is the coverage of Bush actually allowing people to be tortured on US soil? This is hypocritical beyoung belief! Was the Sheikh guilty? The video doesn't lie, but if you are going to report on that a whole day I expect to hear some updates on a timeline for Bush to be sent to jail for breaking the International and Local US law. 

What can you expect from the media these days? Nothing. It is controlled by people with money and special interests.


----------



## TerryPop

Guest89 said:


> Why isn't the media exposing more from Bush and Cheney's torture programme that killed many people in the hope they would link Saddam to Al Qaida? Just a simple question. Where is the coverage of Bush actually allowing people to be tortured on US soil? This is hypocritical beyoung belief! Was the Sheikh guilty? The video doesn't lie, but if you are going to report on that a whole day I expect to hear some updates on a timeline for Bush to be sent to jail for breaking the International and Local US law.
> 
> What can you expect from the media these days? Nothing. It is controlled by people with money and special interests.


But in this instance the UAE had a chance to be better then that, to show it did not see this as acceptable.

I want Sheikh Mohammad to stand up and tell me he realises this is wrong, I want to know.

I am fed up of defending ..... the indefensible.


----------



## Guest89

TerryPop said:


> But in this instance the UAE had a chance to be better then that, to show it did not see this as acceptable.
> 
> I want Sheikh Mohammad to stand up and tell me he realises this is wrong, I want to know.
> 
> I am fed up of defending ..... the indefensible.



Sheikh Mohammed? He had nothing to do with this and I am sure he knows its wrong. Was that Abu Dhabi Sheikh guilty? Yes! Was he supposed to be sent to jail? Yes, but like in the US this is not a true democracy. Besides which the US courts didn't want this case. Don't defend it, just move on. Should the UAE do better? Obviously. UAE is not known for torture. This incidnt is the only one i've heard coming out of the UAE. I guess no place is perfect.


----------



## DXBQuantum

Bush - 9/11 - dont get me started LOL ! - we need a new thread..


----------



## Imre

*Proactive government intervention empowers brokers to deliver bespoke offerings, reignite investor confidence*

*Leo Sterling expects first half of 2010 to be tough on industry players, gradually easing out run-of-the-mill brokers from the market *

January 11, 2010

Leo Sterling, UAE’s premier select property portfolio managers, has revealed that it has shored up its offerings in the ready property segment as it expects demand to gradually pick up within the next six months, driven in part by proactive government intervention, such as the planned move in the UAE to allow foreigners 100 per cent ownership of businesses. Leo Sterling further revealed that the next few months will remain a characteristically tough period for the property industry in general, although it will be in tune with an ongoing trend of market correction and stabilisation.

Furthermore, Leo Sterling pointed out that the UAE economy's positive growth trajectory will provide additional leverage that will enable the property market to weather the lingering effects of the global recession. The UAE Minister of Economy H.E. Sultan Bin Saeed Al Mansouri has earlier revealed that the UAE is expected to achieve a real growth of 1.3 per cent in 2009, which will increase to 3.2 per cent in 2010, paving the way to complete recovery for the UAE economy.

Laura Martorano, CEO and Founder, Leo Sterling said: "We need to focus on the actual picture to be able to determine the genuine prospects that await us in the future. In real terms, there has been no significant growth at the height of the economic depression. However, with proactive government intervention such as the move to allow 100 per cent foreign ownership, I believe that brokers are now being empowered to provide bespoke offerings and services that are designed to reinforce investor confidence in the local property market."

more news:

http://dubaiconstructionupdate.blogspot.com/2010/01/proactive-government-intervention.html


----------



## Imre

The marketing office of the British Tourist Authority in the UAE 

http://www.visitbritain.ae/


----------



## social

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/578407-barclays-wins-first-foreclosure-orders-on-dubai-homes

Good news IMO


----------



## True Blue

rye787 said:


> Geez...no comparison..... in the Rodney King trial the jury found Officer Laurence Powell and Sergeant Stacey Koon guilty, who were subsequently sentenced to 30 months in prison
> 
> *and True Blue saying that the US has the worst human rights record... citation please* as there is no comparison to iran,china,burma,most of africa, most of the middle east etc etc


Watched a documentary which stated that US had the worst Human Rights record in the world and listed a shit load of cases. This programme included the fact that after the Vietnam war the US military deliberately destroyed Vietnams agriculture with chemicals that would prevent any food from ever growing on the land again. These chemicals caused hundreds of thousands of deaths and continue to cause thousands of birth defects. The UN ordered the USA to pay compensation of *BILLIONS* of dollars to Vietnam for this attrocity. Not one dollar has been paid to date.

There was other cases of riots by students in the 70's which the Police just mowed everyone down indiscriminately. What about the Waco incident, fires started by police to burn out a religious sect, killing most of them. Want anymore?


----------



## agod

Sheltie said:


> True Blue and speculator, thanks for your advise. I didn't think about contacting RERA but will now. There is no way I will hand over originals.


In Scotland I think you have Notary Publics, or our versions of solicitors, you need one of those, years ago you could ask your local doctor or some other respected member of the community, the attest the documents.

What that is they will copy them for you, and stamp and swear that they are true copies of originals.

Dont under any circumstances send originals, here in Dubai they accept attested documents, because they are dealing with overseas clients all the time.

Alan


----------



## Sheltie

Thanks for that info.


----------



## shagdash

skdubai said:


> Ok.. i usually try to take a balanced view, but this argument is used way too often on this forum. Is the UK any better, is the US any better? does it matter?
> 
> Does the fact that someone is worse justify or absolve you of what you did? When we are talking about the UAE, lets talk about the UAE! same goes for when we are talking about the laws, property prices, crime, whatever!


Agree fully. I dont know if people keep posting comparisons only to keep the thread alive? Or if they actually believe that if someone else is worse, its ok to be bad.


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> Watched a documentary which stated that US had the worst Human Rights record in the world and listed a shit load of cases. This programme included the fact that after the Vietnam war the US military deliberately destroyed Vietnams agriculture with chemicals that would prevent any food from ever growing on the land again. These chemicals caused hundreds of thousands of deaths and continue to cause thousands of birth defects. The UN ordered the USA to pay compensation of *BILLIONS* of dollars to Vietnam for this attrocity. Not one dollar has been paid to date.
> 
> There was other cases of riots by students in the 70's which the Police just mowed everyone down indiscriminately. What about the Waco incident, fires started by police to burn out a religious sect, killing most of them. Want anymore?


And what about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japs surrendered as they knew the were going to be nuked and had nothing remaining to fight back but the yanks wanted to test the bombs just for the heck of it. 

I believe reconstruction in Afghanistan is going according to plan also.:lol:

lets not discuss US human rights here as the US are the most pathetic and no better than anywhere else. They are good at cover up's.

What the Sheikh did is unbelievable and unacceptable and NO justice hasn't been carried out. He is guilty guilty guilty.

Any way lets get back on topic.


----------



## TerryPop

shagdash said:


> Agree fully. I dont know if people keep posting comparisons only to keep the thread alive? Or if they actually believe that if someone else is worse, its ok to be bad.


A man was brutalised and it appears through priviledge the oppressor has been allowed to flout the law and get away with it.

Watch the video before commenting, and each and every case should be brought to account regardless of location.

Sometimes I think there are a few on here trying to dilute the issue on purpose- paid for posters fogging the waters lets say- so the argument turns into a them versus us issue.

I know I was always told that in Dubai no-0ne was above the law- don't any of you recall that? how even sons of sheikhs went to prison if they misbehaved.


----------



## TerryPop

shagdash said:


> Agree fully. I dont know if people keep posting comparisons only to keep the thread alive? Or if they actually believe that if someone else is worse, its ok to be bad.


I hate these comparisons b/c they are soooo illogical.

As an investor (emotion aside for a minute) it is worth knowing that the system has further refining to come and this will clearly take time.

Accountability is coming, in my opinion this was a landmark case, and it has told me "an investor" to what extent the system can protect me.

Thats all- obviously every way something is dealt with is telling, from bounced cheques to unaccountable Royals.

These are useful insights to arm yourself with (again emotion aside).

Been a big Dubai fan for a very long time, and less focused on the UAE as a whole- realising my mistake here.


----------



## Philippa C

speculator said:


> Bastards aren't they ! I would ask them if they are willing to give you a receipt itemising every document they have received from you when you hand the originals back and if so I would also get some official to sign colour copies of each document received BUT I wouldn't hand anything over till they confirm in writing the terms of the offer first.
> 
> QUOTE]
> You could also make a copy of the original yourself and then get it notarized at the Dubai Courts; that way you can give them the original while you have a legally recognised & stamped copy. Getting a copy notarised does not cost a lot (maybe 100dh) or take long-you can go to the Public Notary in Al Barsha.


----------



## Philippa C

rye787 said:


> and True Blue saying that the US has the worst human rights record... citation please as there is no comparison to iran,china,burma,most of africa, most of the middle east etc etc


I'm sure I'll be told this is not relevant but surely being the only nation to have ever used nuclear weapons is a pretty devastating indicment.


----------



## Philippa C

agod said:


> In Scotland I think you have Notary Publics, are true copies of originals.
> 
> Dont under any circumstances send originals, here in Dubai they accept attested documents, because they are dealing with overseas clients all the time.
> 
> Alan


I posted aout the Notary at the Dubai Courts before seeing the above. I really need to read the latests posts before making any comments; did the same thing re nuclear weapons


----------



## Philippa C

TerryPop said:


> A man was brutalised and it appears through priviledge the oppressor has been allowed to flout the law and get away with it.


I wonder why the case was alllowed to come to court if the outcome was a foregone conclusion. It somehow makes it worse when the is not seen to be followed. When I first read that the prosecution was going ahead I thought it was a good sign.


----------



## Imre

Few things already renamed as the Emaar's website says :

*Burj Khalifa Boulevard *

http://www.emaar.com/index.aspx?page=emaaruae-downtownburj-burjdubaiboulevard

*Burj Khalifa Lake Park*

http://www.emaar.com/index.aspx?page=emaaruae-downtownburj-burjdubailakepark

*Downtown *

http://www.emaar.com/index.aspx?page=emaaruae-downtownburj

*The Address Hotels + Resorts*

http://www.emaar.com/index.aspx?page=emaaruae-downtownburj-theaddressburj

*Emaar Square*

http://www.emaar.com/index.aspx?page=emaaruae-downtownburj-burjdubaisquare


----------



## Rob Timpie

DXBhugefan said:


> Has anyone been approached by Memon asking for further payments due to increased unit area sizes?


No, but I guess you have a reason for asking this...? :nuts:


----------



## shagdash

TerryPop said:


> A man was brutalised and it appears through priviledge the oppressor has been allowed to flout the law and get away with it.
> 
> Watch the video before commenting, and each and every case should be brought to account regardless of location.
> 
> Sometimes I think there are a few on here trying to dilute the issue on purpose- paid for posters fogging the waters lets say- so the argument turns into a them versus us issue.
> 
> I know I was always told that in Dubai no-0ne was above the law- don't any of you recall that? how even sons of sheikhs went to prison if they misbehaved.


I think you misunderstood my comment. I was simply agreeing with what skdubai said that comparing the US's or indeed Timbuktu's human rights record, doesn't absolve the UAE of its responsibilities regarding this case.
My comment meant to ask if posters here actually believe if the US or ANY other country has bad human rights or indeed other government policies, it is all ok for the UAE to be what they consider a lesser degree of bad?
And I have watched the tape. In fact I posted it on here too and got a ban warning for my effort


----------



## rye787

deleted


----------



## hemelboorder

*Sheikh Isa...*

Just in case anyone is still in doubt with respect to the verdict: in the whole discipline of pharmacy, there is no known compound that, when taken, causes you to beat someone almost to death!

In order justice to be done, I propose the Burj Dubai will be named after that poor tortured guy.


----------



## Guest89

hemelboorder said:


> Just in case anyone is still in doubt with respect to the verdict: in the whole discipline of pharmacy, there is no known compound that, when taken, causes you to beat someone almost to death!


Wrong, there have been many cases that prove use of Steroids could cause people to kill.


----------



## Richard Head

Guest89 said:


> Wrong, there have been many cases that prove use of Steroids could cause people to kill.


Maybe accurate, but utterly irrelevant. Steroids taken over prolonged periods of time cause increased aggression, are you suggesting Sheikh Issa was unknowingly fed steroids and that turned him into a psycopath? hno:


----------



## AppleMac

TerryPop said:


> I know I was always told that in Dubai no-0ne was above the law


told by who? :nuts:


----------



## AppleMac

speculator said:


> And what about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japs surrendered as they knew the were going to be nuked and had nothing remaining to fight back but the yanks wanted to test the bombs just for the heck of it.


Er - the Japanese didn't surrender until *after* the dropping of the nukes and even then the military government wanted to fight on - it was the Emperor that insisted on surrender.



> Any way lets get back on topic.


Good idea :applause:


----------



## FARIBA

*HI*



DXBhugefan said:


> Has anyone been approached by Memon asking for further payments due to increased unit area sizes?


What do you mean all the units in all the ct's are going to be larger than it is in our contracts?

and no i haven't heard from them about this. have they changed you apt size and if so which ct you are in?

there is always a new surprise with them to ask for extra money:nuts:


----------



## speculator

AppleMac said:


> Er - the Japanese didn't surrender until *after* the dropping of the nukes and even then the military government wanted to fight on - it was the Emperor that insisted on surrender.
> 
> 
> Sorry it wasnt as simple as the western version. They did surrender. Its just that the US version of events is as yours.
> 
> 
> Anyway lets get back on topic !


----------



## AppleMac

speculator said:


> Its just that the US version of events is as yours.


no, the *historical* version is as mine. :wink2:


----------



## paddyh

*Rental Rates in CRW*

I purchased studio in Venetian Tower. I have 25% left to pay between now and completion. I would love to know what fees I will also face. I purchased a studio in International City a few years ago and on completion I was hit with several unexpected surprises of various fees and now dread what might be around the corner on this development???

Also I live in Ireland and am wondering about furniture packs or if there is a way I can avoid having to travel to Dubai to spend a week or 2 decorating the apartment when its finished?

Final query if anyone has realistic figures for rental rates in CRW. My fear is that there will be 1000's of apartments completed at same time and will suck up any demand and also lower rental rates for the Sports City area?


----------



## DXBhugefan

Does anyone have any contact details for RERA. I wish to lodge a complaint.


----------



## Philippa C

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/578689-dubai-house-prices-seen-stable-in-q4

Some better news on prices.


----------



## speculator

AppleMac said:


> no, the *historical* version is as mine. :wink2:


If you say so. 

By the way history isnt always accurate.


----------



## AppleMac

speculator said:


> By the way history isnt always accurate.


Thats a stormer of a comment :lol:

So what are? - bizarre conspiracy theories?


----------



## speculator

AppleMac said:


> Thats a stormer of a comment :lol:
> 
> So what are? - bizarre conspiracy theories?


Yes.:cheers:


----------



## Philippa C

speculator said:


> If you say so.
> 
> By the way history isnt always accurate.


History is always written by the victors!


----------



## speculator

Philippa C said:


> History is always written by the victors!


Well said.:applause:


----------



## speculator

Wannaberich said:


> *Info please*
> 
> How long on average do you have to wait to get title deeds?
> You also have to 'register' your deeds? How much does this cost ?
> Thanks


That depends on who is obtaining the title deeds for you. If you DIY then it should be about a month. The developer did it for me last time and it took 3 months. As a percentage my fee worked out to be 0.15% of the purchase price. It could be though they worked it out on the OP but not sure on that.

The fee above might have included developers admin fee also sorry to be vague its was 18 months back.


----------



## gerald.d

Philippa C said:


> History is always written by the victors!


----------



## Adel

Move The U.N. To Dubai
Joel Kotkin and Robert J. Cristiano, 01.12.10, 12:01 AM EST 
The tiny emirate is the global capital of the future.



The opening last week of the world's tallest building, the half-mile-high Burj Dubai, has largely been greeted with guffaws and groans. The Daily Telegraph labeled it "the new pinnacle of vanity"--"a purposeless monument to the subprime era." The Wall Street Journal compared it to the Tower of Babel. (When the Empire State Building was completed in 1931, in the throes of the greatest financial crisis of the 20th century, it was met with similar jeers. The then-tallest building in the world was called the Empty State Building, and it remained vacant for several years.) 

Yet the Burj's completion--indeed the whole wild enterprise known as Dubai--could signal a potential opportunity to the global community: turning the place into the headquarters for that other misguided ship, the United Nations.

The United Nations is a pain in the butt. It pays no taxes and annoys hard-working New Yorkers with its sloth, pretensions and cavalier disregard for traffic laws. The place is a sinkhole dominated by anti-American, anti-Semitic and authoritarian fantasies. It is far from the elegant crown jewel that celebrated the U.S.'s global ascendancy after the Second World War. 

Today the U.N. building is a mostly empty shell--water dripping through its roof, asbestos lining its ceiling and an erratic heating and cooling system have forced most UN workers to new facilities. The building is in the midst of a $1.87 billion overhaul--of which the U.S., which could use the cash for myriad other things, would be on the hook for $437 million.

And the U.N. may be leaving anyway. A relocation committee has recommended that the organization move temporarily to Singapore by 2015. It will be hard to vacate Asia again for New York, which is far away from the bulk of the world's largest population centers.

Singapore might make a fine world capital, since it does work like a fine watch. But it's already crowded, expensive and highly regulated. You have to wonder if hard-working, rational Singaporeans would want to drive up costs and lose their ability to run things as they see fit to accommodate the U.N. bureaucracy.

In contrast, the al-Maktoum family has transformed a once vast, empty landscape into a Star Wars-like capital city of the future. There is no skyline more arresting than the one built over the past 15 years by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the Absolute Ruler of the tiny Emirate. In just 500 square miles, about half the size of Orange County, Calif., the sheikh has created a monument to modern architectural engineering. 

Sheikh Mohammed could offer to build a United Nations City to house the U.N. in any number of vacant office towers. Business Bay has 65 million square feet of office space under construction in more than 200 high-rises. Dubai already has thousands of newly constructed apartments that await the international delegates. More than 2 billion people in Africa, Europe and Asia are within a six-hour flight from Dubai. Travel connections through the world's largest airport would be a breeze. Dubai has 55 five-star hotels to accommodate every regal and royal delegation, as well as the Harvard Medical School Dubai Center, a $1,400,000,000 facility branded with the Harvard crest, just in case one of the U.N.'s elite workers breaks a gasket.

Questions of taste and timing aside, you have to admire the sheikh's chutzpah. The al-Maktoums, descendants of the Bani Yas clan, have ruled Dubai since 1833, first under the protection of the British. The United Arab Emirates was founded in 1971 with big brother Abu Dhabi, the emirate with 96% of the confederation's oil reserves. 

Like New York, Dubai aimed first to be a capital of capital. Recognizing that oil revenues at $70 a barrel brought immense cash flow to the Persian Gulf, Sheikh Mohammed set out to create a setting where Arab pride and excess oil revenues could be comfortably parked. His boldness caught the attention of the world financial community and soon the tiny emirate employed more construction cranes than any site on Earth. 

For now flying so close to the sun has resulted in a painful and somewhat humiliating fall. With the financial market collapse of 2008 to 2009 international buyers disappeared and property values plummeted. Half of the $300 billion in construction projects screeched to a halt. The Dubai government, with $80 billion to $100 billion of debt, was in trouble, and Dubai World, its investment arm, announced suspension of interest payments on its loans. Enter Abu Dhabi. The neighboring emirate wrote kid brother Dubai a check for $25 billion. What does $25 billion get you in 2010? On Jan. 4, at the grand opening of the Burj Dubai, Sheikh Mohammed announced that the tower would forever be known as Burj Khalifa, named after the Emir of Abu Dhabi.

Let's look a bit longer term. Right now there's 33.6 million square feet of mostly state-of-the-art office space in Dubai. More than 8 million square feet is vacant with millions more in the pipeline. There's a great airport--as opposed to that aerial dumpster, JFK--that is hours closer to the emerging economic powers of the new century, notably the oil states, India and China. The workforce is skilled and open to foreigners, since the vast majority are foreigners. In Dubai 83% of the 2.2 million residents are from somewhere else. Talk about cosmopolitan.

But how about New York? "Moving the U.N. to Dubai would be a boon for New Yorkers who have to put up with traffic jams created by the likes of Colonel Qaddafi, scofflaws protected by diplomatic immunity and the loss of real estate revenue they would gain if the U.N. building were turned into something far more useful--condos with a view," suggests urban historian Fred Siegel, a visiting professor at Saint Francis College in Brooklyn and a fellow at New York's Manhattan Institute.

Liberating New York from the United Nations, in fact, would open up some of the best situated real estate in the world. A treasure trove of great apartments and offices right along the East River would suddenly become available, bringing a potential revenue windfall to New York City, which could use it. None of this would threaten the city's---or the country's--economic and political status. That grows out of economic and military power, which the U.N. does little or nothing to augment.

What would Dubai get? It's an ideal opportunity to refurbish its tarnished image on the world stage in a way that plays to its infrastructural and geographical advantages. The Arabian Sea and the Indian Ocean are increasingly the focal point of the world economic and political systems. Some of the biggest challenges facing the U.N. are concentrated in the south in Somalia and Yemen, to the west in Israel and Palestine, and to nearby Iran and Pakistan. Dubai would have to reconcile itself to a permanent Israeli presence, but that may not be as difficult as many think. Jews, and even Israelis, do business today in Dubai with perhaps less worry about running into manifestations of anti-Semitism than in London or Paris.

Bringing the United Nations to Dubai makes sense. New York gets rid of one of its worst welfare cheats, and Dubai finds new tenants to fill its vacant towers. Dubai has already built something that looks the part of a 21st-century world capital. Let it get a cast appropriate for its glittering set.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/11/dubai-burj-united-nations-opinions-columnists-joel-kotkin.html


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## Guest89

^^ Sounds like a good idea. Dubai can gain political power as well more economic power. I say build a new UN building that is more beautiful than the one in New York and just move it here. Besides the media attention Dubai will get it will be awesome to see important leaders.


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## bizzybonita

This page for sale 

1111


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## Dubai_Steve

^^ Ma afham :dunno:


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## bizzybonita

^^page no.1111  now you understand !


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## baba toto

Check out the latest "update" on the DEC website - No change since the last one over 6 months ago - Except the other buildings around the site have got bigger....:bash:


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## Sportsman

To be realistic, I would say CRW would have a completion date sometime in 2011, likely in the second quarter. There is too much construction of other buildings and infastrucure work to be completed. My guess, notwithstanding an additional financial downturn in the next year, the end of 2011 will be the time for DSC. Rents will be interesting....have you seen the apartments yet to be completed in the Marina alone ? hno: Dubai needs lots of positive news and trust needs to return ASAP./ I still think DSC will be very nice when completed.....but when????


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## biyadoo

Got this offer from a spam email:

Armani Residence - Burj Khalifa
1 Bed - 1088 sqft
Original price AED 9,300,000+
Selling price AED 5,000,000

:nuts:


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## basheer.mohammad

Sportsman said:


> To be realistic, I would say CRW would have a completion date sometime in 2011, likely in the second quarter. There is too much construction of other buildings and infastrucure work to be completed.


Gentlemen -- can anyone with insight of construction industry comment about this? will it take another year for CRW to handover.

Sportsman - i didnt understand if you were trying to draw a relationship between other buildings, infrastructure and CRW


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## Guest89

Richard Head said:


> Maybe accurate, but utterly irrelevant. Steroids taken over prolonged periods of time cause increased aggression, are you suggesting Sheikh Issa was unknowingly fed steroids and that turned him into a psycopath? hno:


I am suggesting that to state that in medicine there is no substance that can cause people to beat up other people and/or kill is utterly false. Steroids have for decades been the cause of aggression. 

If you want to discuss this then go to the thread about Sheikh Issa and let's stick on topic in this thread.


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## paddyh

*Canal Residence West-Venetian Tower*

I purchased studio in Venetian Tower. I have 25% left to pay between now and completion. I would love to know what fees I will also face. I purchased a studio in International City a few years ago and on completion I was hit with several unexpected surprises of various fees and now dread what might be around the corner on this development???

Also I live in Ireland and am wondering about furniture packs or if there is a way I can avoid having to travel to Dubai to spend a week or 2 decorating the apartment when its finished?

Final query if anyone has realistic figures for rental rates in CRW. My fear is that there will be 1000's of apartments completed at same time and will suck up any demand and also lower rental rates for the Sports City area?


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## ianthy

*Cost of furnishing 3 bed apt*

Hi

Hope this is the correct thread to ask this question. Please can anyone advise on the cost of furnishing a 3 bedroom apt. White goods will already be provided, so it's all about furniture, carpets/rugs and curtains. A 5* finish is needed for executive and high end holiday rentals.

Thks


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## shagdash

Philippa C said:


> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/578689-dubai-house-prices-seen-stable-in-q4
> 
> Some better news on prices.


And some bad news for prices on the same website.

Dubai Investments sees UAE property market worsening
by Reuters on Wednesday, 13 January 2010 

Kalban expects 2010 to be a difficult year for the real estate sector and sees room for further correction with major projects scheduled to open in 2010 adding to surplus supply.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/578712-dubai-investments-sees-uae-property-market-worsening


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## shagdash

Got this by email today. Executive Towers definitely going to have an impact on rental property market. 3 BR for 115k. Not long before they drop to 100k.

Open House in Executive Towers!
Viewings of apartments for RENT
Open house to be held on 16th Jan 2010 from 10.30 a.m. to 5.30 p.m.

Tower Name Type Rent 
H 3 B/R+ maids AED 115,000 
H 3 B/R+ maids AED 130,000 
H 4 B/R+ maids AED 175,000 
M 1 B/R AED 80,000 
M 2 B/R AED 110,000 
M 2 B/R AED 90,000 
M 3 B/R+maids AED 125,000


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## True Blue

bizzybonita said:


> This page for sale
> 
> 1111


look below Bizzy:lol:


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## True Blue

For Sale


Post 22222 on page 1111


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## Bikes

Sorry to interrupt, but it's page 1112 now.


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## 234sale

No its not...

Infact I can make it page 1111 for then next couple of months......



Edit, 

now available on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160394938638 Page 1111

All proceeds will go to charity


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## DXBQuantum

shagdash said:


> Got this by email today. Executive Towers definitely going to have an impact on rental property market. 3 BR for 115k. Not long before they drop to 100k.
> 
> Open House in Executive Towers!
> Viewings of apartments for RENT
> Open house to be held on 16th Jan 2010 from 10.30 a.m. to 5.30 p.m.
> 
> Tower Name Type Rent
> H 3 B/R+ maids AED 115,000
> H 3 B/R+ maids AED 130,000
> H 4 B/R+ maids AED 175,000
> M 1 B/R AED 80,000
> M 2 B/R AED 110,000
> M 2 B/R AED 90,000
> M 3 B/R+maids AED 125,000


Its better then that

1 beds - 65,000 AED
2 beds - 80-90,000 AED


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## cayman1

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Dubai property sales and rental rates stabilise 
Skyscrapers in Dubai Marina. November's turnaround in rental rates promises equilibrium in the Dubai property market. (LOAY ABU HAYKEL)
Print storyContact newspaper editorSend to a friend
By

Anjana Kumar on Thursday, January 14, 2010

After a few dismal quarters, real estate sale and rental prices in Dubai are stabilising, two new reports highlighted yesterday, pointing to an equilibrium being reached in the emirate's property market.

HC Securities' latest review of the sector, Property Beat, revealed that the last two months of 2009 recorded month-on-month rental gains of two and one per cent, respectively, underlining the stabilisation trend.

Since rentals, unlike sale prices, are considered a truer reflection of demand-supply dynamics, "the turnaround in November 2009 following none months of successive declines suggests the market is reaching equilibrium," the report added.

While forthcoming supply could once again test this rentals equilibrium in 2010, the agency believes "the restructuring of Nakheel, which controls 50 per cent of expected supply according to our estimates, could however lead to further project delays and cancellations."

According to another report by Asteco, the decline in rental rates slowed in the last quarter when compared to the third quarter of 2009, with overall decreases of two per cent for apartments and one per cent for villas.

Asteco added that rental rates in Dubai declined by 24 per cent for apartments and 18 per cent for villas on an average for the whole of 2009. Apartment rental rate decreases saw Palm Jumeirah with a minimal decline of six per cent in comparison, followed by International City by around 15 per cent since the first quarter of 2009.

The villa leasing rates in Jumeirah and Umm Suqeim saw the highest drop with 30 per cent. Palm Jumeirah was the only area that recorded an increase in villa rental rates of four per cent on average owing to the lack of availability as many owners bought property to live-in or to keep as a holiday home.

There was consistent activity in residential leasing in 2009. Landlords with quality units in prominent locations and those that are responsive to market conditions will benefit from increased interest, the agency said.

Payment terms became more flexible with tenants asking to pay with four, six and 12 cheques while landlords agreed due to increased competition. Additional incentives included one month rent-free. The number of cheques is expected to increase with 12 cheques a year becoming the norm. Incentives such as landlords paying all the commissions and discounts on moving packages will increase in line with the release of more stock, it said.

Popular locations

Studios and one-bedroom units in Discovery Gardens and Dubai Marina were popular due to low rental rates and proximity to Ibn Battuta Mall, the Dubai Marina and beach and Abu Dhabi.

The Springs and Arabian Ranches were also in demand due to the community feel and the smaller unit sizes (such as two- and three-bedroom villas), resulting in lower rental rates and a community feel.

Palm Jumeirah and Downtown Burj Dubai were also highly sought-after destination locations. Discovery Gardens, Dubai Marina, Palm Jumeirah, Downtown Burj Dubai, Springs and Arabian Ranches will continue to remain attractive throughout 2010, the report added.

Developments such as JLT will also gain in popularity once infrastructure is completed. With rental rates decreasing further, people will move to larger units; and from apartments to villas or townhouses, it said.

The Asteco report also said the overall sales prices for apartments and villas in completed developments across Dubai stabilised towards the end of 2009 with no change recorded from the third quarter to the fourth quarter of last year.

The report added that the latter half of 2009 had also seen an increase in transaction activity as the economy picked up and mortgage availability improved.

Palm Jumeirah fares best

Of all the monitored developments, Palm Jumeirah fared best as it was able to hold value. Other areas that continued to generate interest throughout 2009 included Downtown Burj Dubai, Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Beach Residence, The Springs and Arabian Ranches as they offered lifestyle communities with easy access to retail, leisure, education and entertainment.

The HC report said the "available for-sale stock" declined 71 per cent year-on-year (Y-o-Y) from 18,000 units in December 2008 to 5,000 units in December 2009. On the other hand, transaction volumes remained robust in 2009, averaging 1,821 units per month compared to 1,300 units per month last year.

Better Homes' listings dropped 64 per cent to 2,092 units in December 2009 from a peak of 5,862 units in January 2009, which suggested that distressed stock was clearing and/or listings were being pulled off the market. Furthermore, off-plan listings dropped 89 per cent to 341 units in December 2009 from 3,091 units in January 2009.

"This is a reflection of projects being put on hold, deliveries taking place during the year, and weaker demand for unready units," it said.

Meanwhile, ready listings declined at a slower pace of 48 per cent to 1,221 units in December 2009 from 2,317 units in January 2009. Lease units on the other hand increased by 17 per cent to 530 units in December 2009 from 454 units in January 2009 as able investors increasingly chose to hold their property, especially with signs of rising rentals and yield expansion.

Agreed prices in Dubai were driven down five per cent in October and November last year due to a decline in mortgage lending and deliveries. "The price declines in October and November 2009 likely had to do with a drop in mortgage lending and hence affordability," said the HC report.

Areas where deliveries were made (mainly Downtown Burj Khalifa and Dubai Marina) led the declines as buyers were seen offloading their properties ahead of the final bullet payment. Nonetheless, a slight rebound was recorded in December 2009 with agreed prices rising three per cent M-o-M.

The total value of mortgages awarded in freehold areas in 2009 dropped 24 per cent to Dh3.7 billion from Dh4.9 billion in 2008. This is mainly the result of a 12 per cent decline in the average price during the year as mortgage volumes recorded a 10 per cent increase in 2009, rising to 2,659 units from 2,412 in 2008.

Nonetheless, higher mortgage volumes were mainly driven by a 40 per cent jump in transaction volumes from 15,600 in 2008 to 21,856 units in 2009 boosted by cash buyers and affordability. Cash buyers accounted for 80 per cent on average of total transaction in 2009, compared to 76 per cent on average last year.

Financial boost

While the Dubai property market remained dominated by cash buyers, who accounted for 74 per cent of total transactions, affordability was typically boosted by the availability of financing.

Accordingly, prices appeared to have been driven down by the decline in mortgage financing during those months, but also negative sentiment following the standstill announcement.

According to the HC Securities report, the Abu Dhabi property market outperformed other emirates in 2009, despite roughly 90 per cent of transactions being off-plan.

While data on actual transactions was scarce, the agency's survey of advertised listings suggested that prices had corrected by 33 per cent in 2009, outperforming asking prices in Dubai, which retreated by 39 per cent over the same period. This was despite the fact that roughly 90 per cent of listings in Abu Dhabi were off-plan as compared to around 40 per cent in Dubai.

This may be attributed to stronger fundamentals in Abu Dhabi given the acute shortage and higher rentals yields of up to 14 per cent. Asking prices in Abu Dhabi retreated four per cent in November 2009 and nine per cent in December 2009 lead by Al Reem Island where deliveries took place during those months. The HC report added that deliveries would likely put pressure on prices in the short-term as buyers try to avoid the final installment.

Demand supply gap

According to Asteco, the real estate market in UAE saw an increase in residential supply this year. Demand was seen coming from Abu Dhabi and the Northern Emirates due to the affordability in Dubai. There was a large amount of relocation within Dubai especially in the first three quarters as people upgraded to better locations or better quality units or simply opted for better value for money.

The report said there would be an increase in supply throughout 2010 which would widen the supply-demand gap, resulting in downward pressure on rental rates. With the completion of many residential units in Abu Dhabi and the expected decrease in rents, demand from Abu Dhabi would weaken.

Negotiation the norm

Tenants were able to negotiate payment terms and rental rates due to the increase in supply. Negotiation will become the norm. Flexible payment terms will become increasingly common. In 2009, the majority of transactions were for units below the Dh1,000 per sq ft mark.

The Dubai office rental market did not experience any significant changes in the last quarter of 2009 compared to the previous quarter. Enquiry levels have declined slightly due to the holidays season and companies were seen delaying decision-making until the beginning of 2010.

Developments that continued to generate interest due to location and quality included DIFC and Sheikh Zayed Road. However, market expectations and developer's acceptance was still apart. Developers have begun handing over units in Business Bay to owners.

Office rentals fall

In the fourth quarter of 2009, Asteco said that the average gross rental rate for office space across Dubai stands at Dh175 per square foot per annum. The rates decreased by 31 per cent since the beginning of the year. Tecom saw the highest drop with 48 per cent since the first quarter of 2009 owing to the increased supply in the area. Deira, on the other hand, only decreased by 20 per cent as the area remains popular; especially with the anticipated opening of three main Metro stations in a five km radius.

According to Asteco, areas that saw some activity included JLT, Business Bay and Tecom at prices near original levels. The majority of sales were for small units ranging from 1,000 to 2,000 sq ft. Developments with completed infrastructure in a good location would fare better, the agency said. Master planned developments such as JLT that offer staff reasonable rental options will be more popular. Incentives and offerings by free zones will encourage small businesses to set up.

Postponements likely

There has not been a major shift in strategy on behalf of developers. Developers were more focused on the collection of payments for properties they have sold off-plan and on consolidating properties. Developers are likely to postpone new commercial projects until the supply-demand gap narrows. Developers are also expected to focus on completing projects that are in advanced stages of completion.

With regards to villas, Jumeirah Park experienced the highest drop since the first quarter of 2009 with 34 per cent, followed by Arabian Ranches with 29 per cent. Palm Jumeirah and The Springs, on the other hand, recorded positive growth with 20 and 21 per cent, respectively.

Similar to apartments, price decreases were most substantial between the fourth quarter of 2008 and first quarter of 2009. The average year-on-year decrease amounted to 49 per cent since Q4 of 2008.

The mortgage market in the capital is more buoyant than in the other emirates, with up to 90 per cent mortgages available from at least two lenders. Lenders favour the major developers, but for these they are prepared to lend against under construction properties as well as for the few completed units that are becoming available. Abu Dhabi Finance, ADCB and RAKBank are the most active lenders in the Abu Dhabi market.


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai ready to host UN headquarters
(Wam)

14 January 2010, 4:34 PM
The government of Dubai announced on Thursday that it is fully prepared to host the headquarters of the United Nations if its officials decide to move from New York.

According to an official source at Dubai government, the announcement was made in light of the UAE’s -and Dubai’s- appreciation of the vital role the United Nations plays in all areas, and in the protection of international peace and security and economic development in particular.

The source said Dubai welcomes dialogue with UN officials to provide them with full information on the capabilities which the emirate can provide and which could make it the optimal choice as the new seat of the UN headquarters if a final decision is taken to move outside New York.

Among the capabilities which Dubai possess are the geographical location and the world-class infrastructure and air, land and sea transport systems which make Dubai an easily-accessible meeting point in the middle of the world, noted the source.

Dubai’s offer to host the UN is part of efforts the UAE is making to assume its full role as a responsible and effective member of the international community as well as to find alternatives to contribute to stronger international joint actions. The offer is also based on the UAE’s regional and international strategic weight, the source added

http://www.khaleejtimes.ae/DisplayA.../January/theuae_January401.xml&section=theuae


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## amplesou

Jondubai said:


> Hey you mean Arabian tower instead of Egyptian tower right? :nuts:
> Btw at what rates did they sell out the Spanish tower? :nuts:
> Looking forward to seeing the latest pics
> Keep up the good work  :cheers:


yeh sorry arabian is it !

1.4 but most of those investers where at the top 2008 so they gave them a 20% discount to keep them happy but we had a few wingers on here who tried rera to get the thing stopped 
They had no chance and where given the elbow when they came on here !


----------



## amplesou

Right got that off me chest !
Here,s my second point !
Dsc is made up of three owners !
zeroing /fakganez is 2 of them yes i know spelling is not correct!
There is a third person but his name escapes me at the moment but it does not matter!
Falganez built 5 towers on the edge of DSC a secondary location in my opinion but hey thats ok ,he then also built 2 hub towers on the big hub which look almost finished !

When these towers where built it took me by supprise because they appear to be the first ones to be completed yet had hardly any marketing and of course on this dsc thread, have we talked to any one regarding these investments maybe but not alot!
My theory is that falganez thought I won,t presell these towers in 2008 because they where still rising in price so he thought well I will get maximum when they are finished !
Problem is they dropped and there are no buyers so he is left holding the towers that hardly no one wants !
I visited in side one of the falganez hub tower yes they are not finished but they look abandoned and almost trashed doors wide open !
Surely if you stop you make sure the site is secure ,this has just been abandoned !
My question is has he or are dsc running out of money to complete because of this !

ANother discovery recently is the Dubai government is building a (echo arena Liverpool 1 type (,tranmere rovers where televised on sky recently with 6 a side soccer competition winning it, yes get in there !) Indoor stadium in the middle of no where in the desert. I got pics !
Surely the Dubai government,s patience is also being tested to the point they are doing their own thing else where in Dubai , also along side dsc is emerites golf estates 2 excellent golf courses nearly ready with villa,s.!
Its all well and good being patient but other developments have been done alot more focused!
I think that is the reason for the go slow by the majority of dsc.
Developers in dsc are in no rush !
Yes, they have got investors on there backs wanting it tomorrow but whats the point if they do complete then they don,t get there electricity supply and the place is unfinished ! 
Sorry to sound negative but maybe i should not have gone to motor city !


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## tonydubai

Sorry to change the subject guys....but back to the RERA endorsed payment plans...are we all in agreement that we are sticking with our original CRW contractual payment plans....(unless of course the RERA plan is favourable).


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## Dubai_Steve

15 January 2010


The Dubai property market still offers opportunities for foreign investors, it has been suggested.

Nicholas Marr, chief executive of Homesgofast.com, said values in the emirate are currently going through a period of adjustment and noted that areas where property prices were pushed up by the business community are likely to see the largest reductions.

He commented that lifestyle buyers, who want to benefit from the country's warm climate and excellent range of amenities, should consider purchasing property in places such as Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Beach, Springs and Arabian Ranches.

"These areas will only improve as work continues with infrastructure improvements in the emirate making life even easier for those living and working there," he added.

According to the latest Colliers International house price index, property values in Dubai rose by seven per cent during the last quarter of 2009.

However, this represents a 47 per cent year-on-year reduction, the firm noted.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai rentals remain steady during the last two months of 2009, a sign the market is reaching equilibrium, according to a new report published on Thursday. 

Rentals in Dubai recorded a two per cent gain in November and one per cent in December on month-on-month basis, HC Securities & Investment said in its monthly research report. The take-up ratio continued to trend downwards, declining to 3.7 months in November before slightly rising to 4.3 months in December 2009, it added.

“Given initial signs of global recovery and improving risk appetite, we believe cyclical sectors are likely to outperform this year. However, we remain cautious about the domestic demand story in the UAE as the restructuring process unwinds,” the report said.

Available for sale stock fell by 71 per cent YoY from 18,000 units in December 2008 to 5,000 units in December 2009. On the other hand, transaction volumes remained robust in 2009, averaging 1,821 units/month compared to 1,300 units/month last year. Tightened liquidity ahead of the Nakheel sukuk maturity as well as a slowdown during Ramadan adversely impacted prices. Data show that mortgage values dropped to 21 per cent of total transactions in November 2009, from a strong recovery to 32 per cent in September 2009.

Volumes fell to 13 per cent in November from 25 cent in September. There is a one-month lag between price setting and registration, the slowdown during Ramadan was likely reflected in October 2009.

The price declines in October and November 2009 likely have to do with a drop in mortgage lending and hence affordability.

Areas where deliveries were made (mainly Downtown Burj Khalifa and Dubai Marina) lead the declines as buyers seem to be offloading their properties ahead of the final bullet payment. Nonetheless, a slight rebound was recorded in December 2009 with agreed prices rising 3 per cent MoM.The Abu Dhabi property market outperformed that of Dubai in 2009, despite roughly 90 per cent of transactions being off-plan. 

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/ins...uary/business_January293.xml&section=business


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## Dubai_Steve

“When I look at the performance of the events in the Gulf, I don’t come to the conclusion that regulation has been woefully inadequate and they’ve been very ineffective,” Jim Quigley, chief executive of Deloitte told press, during a tour of the Gulf.

“Commentators would say there was a need for the whole process to be better managed from a PR point of view, but from a governance point of view…you have to separate between what are public listed companies and what are ultimately private companies. And clearly understand that governance is required but it’s not quite as public,” said Anis Sadek, managing partner, Deloitte.

Deloitte, which employs more than 2,000 staff across the Middle East in its auditing, tax and consultancy businesses, also sees growth in Dubai picking up as investors, who remained cautious during the crisis, inject fresh capital into the markets.
"We're seeing a pickup in investments globally, a lot of cash which has been on the sidelines is coming back in the market place," said Robert Kimmitt, a former US deputy treasury secretary, who is now chairman of Deloitte's Center for Cross Border Investment. “With regard to Dubai, if you just look at the number of financial institutions that have put significant operations here… it is an indication that …there is a regulatory regime that gives them the foundation upon which to conduct effective operations.”

Deloitte is upbeat on the prospect of global economic recovery in 2010, said Quigley.

“My researchers tell me that recovery in 2010 is ‘all but certain’. I haven’t heard that kind of certainty before.” 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/578863-dubai-not-lacking-in-regulation---deloitte


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## True Blue

Just got my maintenance fees invoice for Dorrabay. 

Prices have been held at the same level for 2010 at 10AED/ft for maintenance. They say that this produced a surplus of 1.93AED/ft from last years charges and this surplus has been applied to the sinking fund. The unit chiller charge and communal DEWA charges have been set at 5.15AED/ft for 2010 based on last years consumption. Total for my 2 bed is then 21,000AED for the year, not bad!

Most other developments in the marina are around 15-20AED/ft and 6AED for chiller so this looks like good value from Cayan. Anyone else got new figures for their towers?


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai records stability in apartment, villa prices: Asteco Report

Friday, January 15, 2010

Dubai has recorded stability in selling prices of apartments and villas for completed developments towards end of 2009, with no changes in prices during the third and last quarter of 2009.

According to Asteco, the largest property services company in the UAE, the Dubai residential and commercial property market witnessed an increase in transaction during the second half of 2009 as the economy had picked up and there was an improvement in mortgage availability.

Among the developments monitored, the Palm Jumeirah was able to hold values to the maximum, Asteco said.

Being an iconic development, and with constant improvement in infrastructure and completion of residential and hotel developments, the Palm Jumeirah is one of the most sought-after destination, said Elaine Jones, the Asteco Chief Executive Officer.

The other areas that have been of considerable interest to Asteco throughout 2009 are the Dubai Marina, Downtown Burj Dubai, Jumeirah Beach Residence, Arabian Ranches and Springs, as they offer lifestyle communities with more accessibility to leisure, entertainment, retail and education.

The average selling price of apartments in Dubai stood at Dh.950 in 2009, a decrease by 16 percent since Q1 2009, and Dh.1000 per square foot for villas with a decrease by 9 percent change since Q1 2009, the Asteco said in its report.

Business Bay and International City recorded maximum decrease in apartment sale prices since Q1 2009 with 23 percent fall. The prices at Green Community and Palm Jumeirah have remained stable with no change since the beginning of the year.

However, the year-on-year change from Q4 2008 was less by 46 percent in 2009 in comparison to that recorded in Q4 2008 and Q1 2009. This is followed by Arabian Ranches with 29 percent. However, the Palm Jumeirah and Springs recorded a positive growth with 20 and 21 percent respectively.

Similar to the apartments, the price decreases were most substantial between Q4 2008 and Q1 2009. The average year-on-year decrease amounted to 49 percent since Q4 2008.

Dubai has recorded decrease in rentals by 24 percent for apartments and 18 percent for villas on an average throughout the year of 2009, as said by Asteco.

Apartment rental rate decreased 6 percent in Palm Jumeirah, which recorded the minimal decrease, followed by a decline of 15 percent by International City since Q1 2009.

The villa leasing rates in Jumeirah and Umm Suqeim saw the highest drop with 30 percent. The Palm Jumeirah was the only area which to record an increase in villa rentals by 4 percent on an average due to lack of availability, as several owners purchased property to live in or to keep as a holiday home.

In comparison to Q3 2009, the rental declines slowed down during the last quarter with overall decrease of 2 percent recorded for apartments and 1 percent drop for villas. Although the rates picked up slightly in October, the negative media attention which Dubai received in November, recorded a decline in rental once more.


----------



## amplesou

Got inside a one bed apartment today !
got pics please pm if you want to see !


----------



## FARIBA

*HI AMPLESOU*



amplesou said:


> Got inside a one bed apartment today !
> got pics please pm if you want to see !


would you please put the picture of the inside the apt that you saw here for everyone to see i'm sure everyone would like to see what's the inside looks like.
Thanks again


----------



## amplesou

FARIBA said:


> would you please put the picture of the inside the apt that you saw here for everyone to see i'm sure everyone would like to see what's the inside looks like.
> Thanks again


no can,t do that !hno:


----------



## FARIBA

*HI AGAIN*



amplesou said:


> no can,t do that !hno:


is there a reason you can't share the pic?


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Seef 3's have announced on notices in the building. I'll make a note next time I see them, but from memory, I think it's something around the 15AED mark.


----------



## docc

^^ Not including chiller fees i suppose?


----------



## gerald.d

bizzybonita said:


> In comparison to Q3 2009, the rental declines slowed down during the last quarter with *overall decrease of 2 percent recorded for apartments* and 1 percent drop for villas. Although the rates picked up slightly in October, the negative media attention which Dubai received in November, recorded a decline in rental once more.


:lol:


----------



## gerald.d

docc said:


> ^^ Not including chiller fees i suppose?


Can't remember. I'll check in the morning.

No wait. Since it's you and I'm in a good mood, I'll go check now 

/edit

Here you go:


----------



## True Blue

Cayan charge the operation and management as a lump sum 528,000aed for 2009 and 580,800aed for 2010. This is equivalent of 1.95aed/ft2 for 2010. Seem quite fair with their charges and not ripping it like some are.


----------



## True Blue

True Blue said:


> Just got my maintenance fees invoice for Dorrabay.
> 
> Prices have been held at the same level for 2010 at 10AED/ft for maintenance. They say that this produced a surplus of 1.93AED/ft from last years charges and this surplus has been applied to the sinking fund. The unit chiller charge and communal DEWA charges have been set at 5.15AED/ft for 2010 based on last years consumption. Total for my 2 bed is then 21,000AED for the year, not bad!
> 
> Most other developments in the marina are around 15-20AED/ft and 6AED for chiller so this looks like good value from Cayan. Anyone else got new figures for their towers?


I should have mentioned Palm Jumeirah. Residents have been kicking off about the level of service charges in GM, Marina res, Tiara and Shoreline etc. 2 beds are about 35,000aed for the year.


----------



## paddyh

Hi Amplesou

You seem well clued in on what is happeing in CRW. Fair play to you. I have not been to Dubai in almost 4 years when I agreed to purchase apartment in Venetian Tower. I am having regrets that I ever went out because of delays and the uncertainty over being able to lease out my apartment.

How difficult do you believe it will be to rent out and what is the likely rental return that I might expect to gain?


----------



## amplesou

paddyh said:


> Hi Amplesou
> 
> You seem well clued in on what is happening in CRW. Fair play to you. I have not been to Dubai in almost 4 years when I agreed to purchase apartment in Venetian Tower. I am having regrets that I ever went out because of delays and the uncertainty over being able to lease out my apartment.
> 
> How difficult do you believe it will be to rent out and what is the likely rental return that I might expect to gain?


I purchased an apartment in CRW as a holiday home and the whole thing has got a rather an unhealthy grip on me ,no more so, than i spend too much time on here and researching things but this is not an investment thread and i don,t know any thing about making money out of property !
Any way what i saw today did not fill me with hope but i will post to some more in formed people on here if they request the pics in question !


t!


----------



## Jondubai

Hi Amplesou, 
I sent you a msg, waiting to hear from you. Keep up the good work


----------



## Chipmunk

I'm thinking of spending up to 700,000 dhs on a 1-bed in the Downtown Burj Dubai area.

What completed projects would you recommend for the best rental yield at the moment? Service charges should be low.

Your advice would great.


----------



## Koi

Chipmunk are you crazy still pouring money in Dubai?...falling prices and rentals....vacancy rate increasing (oversupply).....population falling.....Dubai is now poor man of UAE

Don't believe in the media.....Premiership footballers did not actually buy villas in Palm Island....they were given to them for next to nothing (great publicity for the developer).


----------



## Imre

Chipmunk said:


> I'm thinking of spending up to 700,000 dhs on a 1-bed in the Downtown Burj Dubai area.
> 
> What completed projects would you recommend for the best rental yield at the moment? Service charges should be low.
> 
> Your advice would great.


If you want good rental yield forget the Downtown, service charge is high there, better to stay at Dubai Marina or JLT.

Just buy the smallest studio or smallest 1 B/r and you will have good income.

:cheers:


----------



## glover

^^^^^ Imre, what would be a good completed building to buy a small studio in JLT!! thanks.


----------



## Imre

Goldcrest Views 2 is a good one , I saw studios around 400K or even less , maintenance is 12 dhs/sqft there so the rental income is not too bad. (handover in February so almost completed )

Goldcrest Executive also good, close to the metro station.

You can find more this is just 2 examples.


----------



## True Blue

Mistermark said:


> I agree - it's the age-old problem that property in Dubai is sold on a price per square foot but rented on the number of bedrooms. Had this apartment been say 1650 sq ft the rent would have been little different. The other problem is that the PJ apartments have very high service charges, which again affects the net rent and hence the price an investor can pay for one.


Your views are out of date. The rental market is recognising apartment size now.

I have just negotiated renewal of my Jewels 1 bed for 130k pa 1 cheque but had to throw in free a/c and showtime package. The bench mark I was looking to maintain was 100psf. 

Smaller 750ft 1 beds in marina will go for 75k per annum.


----------



## shagdash

speculator said:


> Bet you that property aint available when you ring up. bet you !


Well I ain't interested. But if you are, why don't you call Martin at Smith and Ken. Oh and you can say shagdash referred you.


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> Your views are out of date. The rental market is recognising apartment size now.
> 
> I have just negotiated renewal of my Jewels 1 bed for 130k pa 1 cheque but had to throw in free a/c and showtime package. The bench mark I was looking to maintain was 100psf.


That's absolutely amazing especially for a ground floor unit with no view. Is the tenant wheelchair bound ?? :lol: Or, did you have to throw in a couple of Russian "maids" as well. :lol:


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> I have just negotiated renewal of my Jewels 1 bed for 130k pa 1 cheque but had to throw in free a/c and showtime package.


You are very lucky with the 130K, your tenant has no idea about the market


----------



## 234sale

^^ Like those who buy from Damac, or resale in Palm JA


----------



## gerald.d

^^ What he's not telling you is that the 130k is for a 24 month contract


----------



## Dubai_Steve

A very large 3 bedroom in the jewels at 3,599 sq ft is being marketed at 200k, no takers. (56 psf)


----------



## 234sale

^^ smaller units are more popular, you can't legally share.


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> You are very lucky with the 130K, your tenant has no idea about the market


Imre, he went to similar projects like Marina promenade and was quoted the same rates 110-135k. Jewels is a small development of only 110 units but with excellent facilities and high class residents. The beige tiles in the bathrooms don't seem to bother him.

Morris, there is a great view of the pool, what are you talking about, no view. People who pay £1million for a large villa in Greens, Meadows, The Hills etc regard their view of the pool as the best view. There is a healthy market for people who prefer to be at villa level and not up 40 floors when some idiot sets off the fire alarm for a laugh. Very common in the marina apparently, rife in JBR.

When your company is paying the landlord direct, you just go where you want to be.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Property prices in Dubai could fall another 30 % from current levels and up to 150,000 homes could be lying empty by the end of 2011, according to analysts.

With prices in some locations down by up to 50%, the latest forecast from UBS is a blow to the emirate's property market. It also comes as it has been reported that one of Dubai's iconic developments, Palm Jumeirah, has seen its first re-possession.

'We reiterate our view that by end of 2011 Dubai property oversupply on residential and commercial properties may reach roughly 40 to 50% and house prices may decline another 30% from current levels,' said analyst Saud Masud.

'We estimate total Dubai housing supply by the end of 2011 to be roughly 360,000 with oversupply potentially at 150,000 residential units,' he added.

Masud also said property investors in the UAE may find prices to be 40% cheaper in the auction market as higher default risks lead to more bank repossessions.

Indeed reports that an apartment on Palm Jumeirah, the man made islands that became a symbol of Dubai's real estate market, was sold by the bank for AED745 per sq ft, some 35% less than the current market rate, has stunned the industry.

The three bedroom apartment in Al Shala, on the prestigious development, was taken back by the owner's bank last week after he failed to resolve Dhs1.7 million of outstanding debt having left the country. What has been astonishing is how quickly the bank moved to shift the property.

According to some the fact that UK based Barclays has already won a number of repossession orders on properties in Dubai has set a precedent and now banks won't hesitate to follow suit. The locations of the Barclays repossessions have not been made public.

Banks will now be more aggressive in pursuing legal action, according to Antoine Yacoub, a banking analyst at Moody's Investors Service. 'They were trying to avoid the courts and restructure most of their loans, but once they see a precedent has been set, they will be encouraged to push more cases through,' Yacoub added.

http://www.propertycommunity.com/property-in-dubai/518-dubai-property-prices-fall-repossessions.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai to get more than 26,650 units this year*

The number of units to be delivered in Dubai will be the highest this year since the property boom took-off as more than 26,650 apartments and villas will be handed over, according to Shuaa Capital.

This will take the total number of housing units to an estimated 384,350 before the year end, the investment bank said in a report on UAE Vision 2010. "While we had previously assumed 2010 would see fewer deliveries than 2009, the economic shock in late 2008 and the beginning of 2009 caused some leading developers to delay a higher number of 2009 projects than we initially had anticipated. Just like developers continued to drag their feet with construction progress, property buyers extended the handover process as some went scrambling for that last payment," said the report. 

However, the second part of 2009 saw renewed optimism and most developers picked up pace on projects already at an advanced stage, pushing more units across to 2010. 

"As the gap between supply and demand continues to widen, and liquidity remains both restrained and subjected to high interest rates, it is highly unlikely to witness a sustainable recovery in asset values, in 2010," said the report. 

Rents and asset values are likely to lose 10 per cent, to converge on average rents between Dh55 and Dh60 annually per sq ft and an average selling price of Dh800-850 per sq ft. "We expect new supply to apply downward pressure on all areas, despite the growing qualitative disparity in Dubai." 

Focus this year will be on the central cluster of Downtown Burj Khalifa, Business Bay, DIFC and Sheikh Zayed Road are xpected to see almost 7,000 units delivered over the coming 12 months. 

Higher vacancy likely
This year will see the delivery of another 6.8 million sq ft of office space in Dubai. Despite project delays and cancellations, there seems to be a further 2.8 million sq ft slated for 2011 delivery. 

In 2010, Shuaa expects the downward spiral in occupancy rates to settle around 60 per cent to 65 per cent level, which it believes is a clear signal that no near-term market wide recovery in rents and selling prices is in the making. Average rents are expected to lose 10 to 15 per cent from the current levels of Dh180-Dh200 per sq ft annually, as more office space nears completion. 

Shortage in capital
Abu Dhabi's residential property market is expected to continue witnessing a shortage of residential properties for the foreseeable future. The reasons are strong economic growth, resulting in a growth in population and by extension demand for property, in a market where existing vacancies and new supply are limited. 

The Shuaa report expects Abu Dhabi real estate market to see 23,000 units delivered over the next two years. Average rents for new leases lost an estimated 20 per cent from the peak in mid-2008 until 2009 year end. "We expect stronger 2010 growth, improved sentiment coupled with the reality of supply shortage to boost asset values by 10-15 per cent on foreign ownership zone properties on Al Reem Island and to a lesser extent Al Raha Beach. "

Quality matters
Supply of new office space in the capital remained limited during 2009 and occupancy rates stayed in the 95-98 per cent range.

Shuaa expects rents for high-grade office space to stabilise around the current levels of Dh260-310 per sq ft. Property values in the relatively small parts of the freehold zones approaching completion, are expected to witness moderate growth of around five to 10 per cent. 










http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZAWYA20100120055657/Dubai to get more than 26,650 units this year


----------



## 234sale

Asteco's Q4 2009 report is out this week, will post the link when I get it.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> A very large 3 bedroom in the jewels at 3,599 sq ft is being marketed at 200k, no takers. (56 psf)


I am seeing plenty of 3 beds for the same if not cheaper than 2 beds. 3 beds have big bills so if you are just a couple looking for more space it is not practical.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai Marina remains Dubai’s most popular property hotspot for residents looking to rent or buy, according to the latest findings from real estate website propertyfinder.ae.

The upscale development accounted for 16.2 percent of searches by online buyers between October and December last year, the Dubai-based website said, and 18.2 percent of rental enquiries. 

Also popular among potential buyers was Jumeirah Lake Towers, which notched up 14.3 percent of enquiries, Palm Jumeirah and Jumeirah Beach Residence, which recorded 11.8 and 8.4 percent of searches respectively.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/579349-dubai-marina-retains-most-popular-title-in-q4-2009


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dubai Marina remains Dubai’s most popular property hotspot for residents looking to rent or buy, according to the latest findings from real estate website propertyfinder.ae.
> 
> The upscale development accounted for 16.2 percent of searches by online buyers between October and December last year, the Dubai-based website said, and 18.2 percent of rental enquiries.
> 
> Also popular among potential buyers was Jumeirah Lake Towers, which notched up 14.3 percent of enquiries, Palm Jumeirah and *Jumeirah Beach Residence*, which recorded 11.8 and *8.4 percent *of searches respectively.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/579349-dubai-marina-retains-most-popular-title-in-q4-2009


Answers a theory I harbour about JBR, nice location but no prestige. The kerb appeal is appauling and there is no drive up luxury reception when you arrive by car or taxi. Another reason why certain developments near JBR walk with high quality architecture and lobbies/ reception areas are fairing well in the rental market with young executive lifestyle seekers.


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> You are very lucky with the 130K, *your tenant has no idea about the market *


Another point Mr Smarty Pants.:lol: 

There is no other 1 beds for rent in the Jewels and I don't remember seeing one for around 3 months now. So there is no supply and some demand. What does that tell you about market prices


----------



## peacesells

Wannaberich said:


> I'd love to see an accurate and trustworthy report on unit supply for years 2011/2012/2013/2014/2015.
> I would expect numbers to reduce drammatically in the later years.This is when hopefully undersupply may hit and prices rise.


I don't think this is at all possible. The closest to a complete registry of projects is with RERA / DLD but those do not include most of the projects that weren't intended for off-plan sales or those in their very early stages. That isn't even considering the fact that nobody knows what projects under development/construction will keep going, if so, for how long? 

In other news, work contract expired and not renewing. Thankfully, the rents are low and there's no problems with visa. Decent amount of jobs being advertised, but so far no takers for this real estate dude.


----------



## Imre

Ok, its not surprise , I know another forumer who rented his 1 b/r for 150K with 1 chk


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> Imre, he went to similar projects like Marina promenade and was quoted the same rates 110-135k. Jewels is a small development of only 110 units but with excellent facilities and high class residents. The beige tiles in the bathrooms don't seem to bother him.


for 100K you can get as much as you want, even cheaper ..for 80-85K if you can use the internet or Google 

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/search/me...rice_min=AED&price_max=AED&sitesearch=Search&

AED 85k Only!! Large 1 bed in Beauport Tower, Marina Promenade (Emaar)!

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...80k-only-large-1-bed-in-beauport-tower-marin/

HUGE 1100sqft - massive 1 bed for 100K

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...-1100sqft-1-bed-in-shemara-marina-promenade-/

etc... 

:cheers:


----------



## Imre

Most of tenants paying with 4-6-12 cheques now.


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai homes oversupply may hit 150,000 by end 2011*

PROPERTY PREDICTION: UBS has said Dubai house prices are likely to fall a further 30 percent by the end of 2011. (Getty Images)House prices in Dubai could fall a further 30 percent from current levels and up to 150,000 homes could be lying empty by the end of 2011, UBS has said.
"We reiterate our view that by end of 2011 Dubai property oversupply on residential and commercial properties may reach roughly 40-50 percent and house prices may decline another 30 percent from current levels," analyst Saud Masud said in a research note. "We estimate total Dubai housing supply by end of 2011 to be roughly 360,000 with oversupply potentially at 150,000 residential units," he added.

EXCLUSIVE: First bank repossession on Palm Jumeirah 
Masud also said property investors in the UAE may find prices to be 40 percent cheaper in the auction market as higher default risks lead to more bank repossessions.“It would be difficult for buyers to overlook the distress level pricing in the auction market as compared to secondary markets,” he said. “Early trade-offs may be liquidity, quality, location and variety.”
His research note followed an Arabian Business report on Tuesday which revealed that Dubai’s man-made island Palm Jumeirah had seen its first property repossession. The property was sold by the bank for AED745 per sq ft, 35 percent less than the current market rate.


----------



## peacesells

Freestyler said:


> Not so quick, I see trend not so good till next two years. UK and US will change trend before Dubai. Mortgage rates, maintenance fees, and supply in Dubai is not favorable for price appreciation at the moment. Abu Dhabi properties on the other hand are fundamentally in better position.


There's still plenty of overpriced garbage out there that needs to 'work through' the system. We are seeing the tip of iceberg now with the first foreclosure from Barclays and there's plenty more to come now thanks to a precedent and reduction of the cut-off time at which loans must be classified as sub-standard to 90 days from 180 days currently (source: http://business.maktoob.com/20090000421118/UAE_cbank_to_tighten_provisioning_rules/Article.htm).

I wouldn't be so sure as to say Abu Dhabi property market is in a "better position", in fact, I personally feel AD will see more decline in the next year percentage-wise than Dubai.


----------



## Imre

New business?

*High seas, high stakes*


*Just beyond the territorial waters of the UAE and its neighbours, a new growing armada of international cruise liners are quietly operating on-board casinos.*


Dubai: You might think the Gulf would be the last place to find lavish casinos bursting with shiny slot machines, video poker screens and mahogany gaming tables.

Don't bet on it.

Just beyond the 12-nautical-mile territorial waters limit of the UAE and its neighbouring Arab coastal states along Gulf shorelines, a new growing armada of international cruise liners are quietly operating on-board casinos replete with every game of chance found routinely on the ruby-red carpets of Monte Carlo and Las Vegas, XPRESS has learnt.

And the stakes just got higher with this week's inaugural arrival in Dubai of Royal Caribbean International's prized liner, Brilliance of the Seas, a virtual floating city that will host 2,000 holidaying guests each week for the remainder of the highly lucrative cruising season up to April.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/high-seas-high-stakes-1.571057


----------



## sidxb

Freestyler said:


> Not so quick, I see trend not so good till next two years. UK and US will change trend before Dubai. Mortgage rates, maintenance fees, and supply in Dubai is not favorable for price appreciation at the moment. Abu Dhabi properties on the other hand are fundamentally in better position.


UK and US will change trend before Dubai since prices started sliding there earlier. Only reason this *may not* hold true would be high oil prices IMO. Higher oil prices would increase liquidity in this region and make recovery in europe slower.

Regarding AD , I think it was sold over priced. Overall most of the projects are still a hole in the ground or at early stage of construction. Anyways , by the time Abudhabi master developments start getting into shape somewhat similar to what Dubai Marina or Discovery garden are as of today, we will be entering 2018 ( if we survive 2012 :lol: ).


----------



## sidxb

Imre said:


> New business?
> 
> *High seas, high stakes*
> 
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/high-seas-high-stakes-1.571057


Some popular cruise liners are now increasing services to this region. 

*Brilliance of the Seas makes its debut in Abu Dhabi*


----------



## Philippa C

Hanna said:


> PROPERTY PREDICTION: UBS ". "We estimate total Dubai housing supply by end of 2011 to be roughly 360,000 with oversupply potentially at 150,000 residential units," he added.
> .


I amazes me how experts confidently predict how mnay units are going to be available at a particular point in time when property purchasers with contracts in place do not know when their properties will be handed over. I've come to the conclusion that the experts issue these "notes" as they need to be seen to be doing something to remain in their jobs.


----------



## dubaimat

*68% Dubai households feel downturn hurt them*

As much as 68% of Dubai's population households feel that they have been negatively impacted by the financial crisis, a latest consumer confidence survey of the emirate’s residential property market has revealed.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/579602-68-dubai-households-feel-downturn-hurt-them--survey


----------



## Naz UK

^^Wow, i didn't realise Dubai's Emirati population was at 32%.


----------



## AppleMac

Philippa C said:


> I amazes me how experts confidently predict how mnay units are going to be available at a particular point in time when property purchasers with contracts in place do not know when their properties will be handed over. I've come to the conclusion that the experts issue these "notes" as they need to be seen to be doing something to remain in their jobs.


Very true - all these 'experts' do is take developers estimates and add them up and given that no developer in Dubai has ever delivered anything on time then it really is a pretty pointless exercise.


----------



## Freestyler

peacesells said:


> I wouldn't be so sure as to say Abu Dhabi property market is in a "better position", in fact, I personally feel AD will see more decline in the next year percentage-wise than Dubai.


Demand vs supply is better, govt spending is good, and population is growing faster than any other state. Increased govt spending and diversification of economy is expected bring more people and consumer spending in Abu Dhabi.

For flippers market is slow or maybe dangerous, but for long-term investors Abu Dhabi is better as economic indicators are good and growth potential is higher.


----------



## paul66

International City TV Commercial...
Maybe the UK should advertise council flats like this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQfuOkDpZ4k


----------



## Philippa C

Wannaberich said:


> However,all the news coming out these days is nothing but negative.
> 
> *Dubai debt woes to hurt UAE property industry - Nomura *
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/579615-dubai-debt-woes-to-hurt-uae-property-industry---nomura-


I think so many experts/newspapers got it wrong in *not *predicting the problems in Dubai they are trying to stay on safe ground by going with the flow and only reporting bad news. No matter what happens in Dubai these days, someone manages to put a negative spin on it.

Dubai will host the 2010 FINA World Short Course Championships and in 2013 FINA World Swimming Championships.There's a huge stadium being built which can be seen from the Dubai Bypass Rd. That's got to be good new but we don't hear much about it. http://www.ameinfo.com/205037.html

The Meydan racecourse will be ready by the end of Jan for racing - it's a huge achievement to get that finished in such a short time.

I know someone's going to complain about the queue for taxis on race day


----------



## jagmp

agod said:


> Jagmp. When the taxman cometh, a litle brown envelope lands on your mat, with a line that goes something like this "It has come to our attention, through information revceived" and they can get there information from many source's nowadays, even a fancy number plate on the car, can get them excited, and dont think they can only go back 6 years, since joining the "Kings Men" the customs, they have wide ranging powers, and can do 20 years if they want.
> 
> Remember, that since the introduction of the Terrorist laws, and Money Laundering ones, banks will also give up your account to them, if they see large movements of cash coming in, and especially Dubai British banks like TSB or HSBC, and also if you pay your NI through a direct debit, from the bank, they already have a direct link to your account.
> 
> Basically don't chance it, if you dont want sleepless nights, if you are earning it, you must pay it.
> 
> Wants wrong with talking to your tenant? unless you are a Rachman on the side, and are not keeping t you side of the contract.
> 
> Alan


You are right Alan.It is not worth the risk.Thats why i asked specific questions.It is just that at times you feel the pinch specially when rents are continuously falling.Soon we will have to face void periods repair work and on the top rediculous service charges will bring rental yield down to 3 to 4 percent.

There is no harm in talking to tanent through email or over the telephone.The problem is adding him on facebook will letting lose lot of personal information which he doesn't need to know.Rejecting his request will be rude.So i am confused.


----------



## 234sale

He wont know if you reject him...


----------



## jagmp

Wannaberich said:


> Just because you have a property abroad doesnt mean you have to rent it.
> You either tell the taxman you left your properties vacant as it was your intention to sell once prices rose,or if you have one property you tell him it was a holiday homes.Simple.


It is not as simple as it sounds.There are practical problems.You have to be showing how you are paying for your service charges and other maintanance cost.That means you will be regularly transfering funds from UK and not paying from the rent you recieve. So you have to disclose your Dubai bank acct.

How much cash can you keep.My taxman knows roughly how much i am spending on my credit card and bills.Basically you just need to blow the cash.You can't use it for your main stream expenses.

Probably those who are on PAYE it might be easier but not for the ones who are on self assessment.Even a small irregularity can trigger the inquiry.


----------



## dubaimat

Philippa C said:


> No matter what happens in Dubai these days, someone manages to put a negative spin on it.
> 
> The Meydan racecourse will be ready by the end of Jan for racing - it's a huge achievement to get that finished in such a short time.
> 
> I know someone's going to complain about the queue for taxis on race day


Thank god we've got you to put a positive spin on things, despite the fact that Arabtec/WTC had to pull out of Meydan because they did not get paid. 
Since it is such a dear project to Sheikh Mo (may Allah bless his soul), there are companies working at the site under ridiculous conditions just to get this "huge achievement" finished. hno:


----------



## docc

One thing to consider is that fall in prices will not be across the board. Developed areas like Dubai Marina and semi-developed areas like Downtown will IMO see price rises this year. Villa's in areas such as Emirates Living and Arabian Ranches will also see price rise.

The areas that will probably experience price drops are primarily those with poor location and poor quality finishes. People are now becoming more conscious about the location, quality of the final product and also the service fees linked to their investment and in the end these will be the deciding factors for price changes.


----------



## smussuw

speaking of which, where is the 2010 rental index?


----------



## nisha

Philippa C said:


> I am not and was never an agent.  I worked directly with the consulate. In any case, an agent is not going say anything to deter would be applicants as otherwise he'd have no income! They trade on people's hopes and dreams. End of discussion.


Yeah, and Rudd is my Uncle. End of discussion:lol:


----------



## sidxb

Philippa C said:


> I think so many experts/newspapers got it wrong in *not *predicting the problems in Dubai they are trying to stay on safe ground by going with the flow and only reporting bad news. No matter what happens in Dubai these days, someone manages to put a negative spin on it.
> 
> Dubai will host the 2010 FINA World Short Course Championships and in 2013 FINA World Swimming Championships.There's a huge stadium being built which can be seen from the Dubai Bypass Rd. That's got to be good new but we don't hear much about it. http://www.ameinfo.com/205037.html
> 
> The Meydan racecourse will be ready by the end of Jan for racing - it's a huge achievement to get that finished in such a short time.
> 
> I know someone's going to complain about the queue for taxis on race day


Dubai has problems of its own which it needs to resolve but IMO living in Dubai NOW is much better experience compared to 2008. However you are correct, there are some pessimists who would put a negative spin on EVERYTHING. You talk about sports, improved infrastructure , better roads / public transport etc etc. Maybe they bought at wrong time when market was at peak and now have no one to blame for there woes but Dubai.

Best way is to think positive, enjoy Dubai as there is lot to enjoy now than before. Those pessimists are only hurting there own health and well being. As if someone has "forced" them to live in Dubai against there own will under ridiculous conditions :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Prices could double again but you probably have to wait at least 7 years


----------



## Ingi

Dubai_Steve said:


> Prices could double again but you probably have to wait at least 7 years


We have no option but waiting now.. the flat lost so much value and selling now would not be wise. And on top of that our loan rate is increased by 30 % due to Mashreq's decision to replace Eibor with their MPR. We really wish we would not have bought , but too late for that now

I guess 75 k would be great..We are flexible with the cheques and that should help.I just hope there are still people looking to rent in Dubai.I feel it has become very hard to find tenants these days..even with offering a good price??


----------



## 234sale

Dubai_Steve said:


> Prices could double again but you probably have to wait at least 17 years


edit......^^


----------



## gerald.d

Ingi said:


> We have no option but waiting now.. the flat lost so much value and selling now would not be wise. And on top of that our loan rate is increased by 30 % due to Mashreq's decision to replace Eibor with their MPR. We really wish we would not have bought , but too late for that now
> 
> I guess 75 k would be great..We are flexible with the cheques and that should help.I just hope there are still people looking to rent in Dubai.I feel it has become very hard to find tenants these days..even with offering a good price??


Speaking as a tenant who is looking to decide where to rent for the next year, I find your last sentence very hard to agree with.

Tenants are easy to find, as long as you're asking a sensible price. Unfortunately (for you at least), a "sensible" price isn't necessarily one that makes sense to your particular circumstances.


----------



## 234sale

Commercially

We have alot of space in our building, the landlord is an idiot and kicked out good tenants. We are in a good location, 3 year old building... The most a company wants to pay is 80aed sqft to lease. 2 years ago the same space was leased at 300AED sqft.

The building next to the Sungwon sales center is now 100AED for newly built showroom. I expect it will go as low as 70AED for showroom space.


----------



## 234sale

gerald.d said:


> Speaking as a tenant who is looking to decide where to rent for the next year, I find your last sentence very hard to agree with.
> 
> Tenants are easy to find, as long as you're asking a sensible price. Unfortunately (for you at least), a "sensible" price isn't necessarily one that makes sense to your particular circumstances.


Good Tenants are difficult to find, single married couples with no kids, perfect


----------



## sidxb

shagdash said:


> ^^
> 
> Really I feel sorry for such owner occupiers as you. Many speculators doubled/tripled/quadrupled their money and vanished from the market and left genuine small investors like you stuck between a rock and a hard place.
> I just saw a lovely 3 bed full sea view 2200 sq ft apt in JBR for 130k per annum. I suppose if you were to take a per sq ft rental rate from the above, it would work out to 60 per sq ft, so I think for your apt 60k is a do-able price. List at 70k-75k and negotiate from there.


Request was for rent estimate , not for pointless sympathies :lol:
Last week my friend rented his unfurnished 1 bed apartment in JLT ( around 770 sq feet ) in indigo tower for 65k / 4 cheques. He got tenant within week of listing property on dubizzle . 

Though I do not know going rate in Dubai Marina , I think 60k for furnished 1 bed of around 900 sq feet is way off mark


----------



## Ingi

sidxb said:


> Request was for rent estimate , not for pointless sympathies :lol:
> Last week my friend rented his unfurnished 1 bed apartment in JLT ( around 770 sq feet ) in indigo tower for 65k / 4 cheques. He got tenant within week of listing property on dubizzle .
> 
> Though I do not know going rate in Dubai Marina , I think 60k for furnished 1 bed of around 900 sq feet is way off mark


So i guess 75k negotiable would not be too much to ask.. considering the size and the quality...right? 
By the way how does is work now with the renting agreements? Is it a must to appoint an agent in order to have it registered with Rera?


----------



## sidxb

Ingi said:


> So i guess 75k negotiable would not be too much to ask.. considering the size and the quality...right?
> By the way how does is work now with the renting agreements? Is it a must to appoint an agent in order to have it registered with Rera?


No , real estate agent is not must. There is a rent agreement that you can get from typing shops and it needs to be signed by both tenant and owner. There is also new rent agreement that can be downloaded from RERA website and needs to be registered afterwards BUT it is not mandatory to use new rent agreement. 

Get good pictures of your apartment. List property on www.dubizzle.com . Provide only your email address for your convenience and in title itself mention as well that 'No Agents Commission' . 
Since 5 % commission is paid by tenants , they would be saving good amount if leased directly from owner. Scrutinize the prospective tenants and throw some freebies if you find some good tenant ( like scalping rent or giving rent free 5-10 days while they shift is good ). 

Best of luck.


----------



## shagdash

sidxb said:


> Request was for rent estimate , not for pointless sympathies :lol:
> Last week my friend rented his unfurnished 1 bed apartment in JLT ( around 770 sq feet ) in indigo tower for 65k / 4 cheques. He got tenant within week of listing property on dubizzle .
> 
> Though I do not know going rate in Dubai Marina , I think 60k for furnished 1 bed of around 900 sq feet is way off mark


1 Bed + Hall with Balcony Fully Kitchen Fitted in Dubai Marina-From 50K
Price: AED 50,000 /yr
Bedrooms: 1
Bathrooms: 1
Size: 830.00 SqFt
Rent is paid: Yearly
Listed by: AgentLocation
in Dubai Marina
1.6 km from Marina Walk

RP10323044watch thisDescription:
One bed hall with balcony in,
DEC tower,
Marina Park 
Marina Diamond ,
Time Place, 
Park Island, 
Marina Quay
Al Sahab 2
Call for viewing 

HOT PROPERTY !!!!! 1 B/R IN MARINA PARK - DUBAI MARINA. RENT AED. 50K. CALL 
Price: AED 50,000 /yr
Bedrooms: 1
Bathrooms: 1
Size: 800.00 SqFt
Rent is paid: Yearly
Agency fees: 2500
Listed by: AgentLocation
in Dubai Marina
2.0 km from Marina Walk

RP10327975watch thisDescription:
1 B/R with balcony, open kitchen and appliances. Ready to move in. Easy entry & exit from Jabel Ali and Abu-Dhabi.



Call for viewing: 


(AGENTS PLEASE EXCUSE)



Amenities:


Central A/C & Heating, Balcony, Shared Pool, Shared Gym, Security, Covered Parking and Built in Kitchen Appliances


Above are but 2 examples taken from dubizzle. It seems even 60k was off the mark as 800 sq ft apartments are available at 50k in the Marina now.

As far as pointless sympathies go, I definitely ain't wasting them on you for being so blind to rental market reality these days.


----------



## sidxb

I know shag how to sort listings to get worst rentals on dubizzle but worst listings DO not give you idea of market. I told single rental based on deal that went through. 
If you are finding something for pennies there would be some or other catch to it. 
Remember the story where tenants got 1 bed in discovery for around 35-40k back when going rate was around 45-55k only to find later that apts were not rented by original owner hno:
You can only sympathize with yourself for wasting endless hours on finding worst deals and never getting one :cheers:


----------



## italianopellicano88

what is a price of a house in dubai 3 beds 3 bads ?

in a nice location


----------



## Ingi

shagdash said:


> 1 Bed + Hall with Balcony Fully Kitchen Fitted in Dubai Marina-From 50K
> Price: AED 50,000 /yr
> Bedrooms: 1
> Bathrooms: 1
> Size: 830.00 SqFt
> Rent is paid: Yearly
> Listed by: AgentLocation
> in Dubai Marina
> 1.6 km from Marina Walk
> 
> RP10323044watch thisDescription:
> One bed hall with balcony in,
> DEC tower,
> Marina Park
> Marina Diamond ,
> Time Place,
> Park Island,
> Marina Quay
> Al Sahab 2
> Call for viewing
> 
> HOT PROPERTY !!!!! 1 B/R IN MARINA PARK - DUBAI MARINA. RENT AED. 50K. CALL
> Price: AED 50,000 /yr
> Bedrooms: 1
> Bathrooms: 1
> Size: 800.00 SqFt
> Rent is paid: Yearly
> Agency fees: 2500
> Listed by: AgentLocation
> in Dubai Marina
> 2.0 km from Marina Walk
> 
> RP10327975watch thisDescription:
> 1 B/R with balcony, open kitchen and appliances. Ready to move in. Easy entry & exit from Jabel Ali and Abu-Dhabi.
> 
> 
> 
> Call for viewing:
> 
> 
> (AGENTS PLEASE EXCUSE)
> 
> 
> 
> Amenities:
> 
> 
> Central A/C & Heating, Balcony, Shared Pool, Shared Gym, Security, Covered Parking and Built in Kitchen Appliances
> 
> 
> Above are but 2 examples taken from dubizzle. It seems even 60k was off the mark as 800 sq ft apartments are available at 50k in the Marina now.
> 
> As far as pointless sympathies go, I definitely ain't wasting them on you for being so blind to rental market reality these days.


These kind of adds are the one that confused us...as they are a some flats going for very low..and so many for so much more.. so I guess i will never know the real value until actually getting someone to rent it.. Will see how it goes but i I still hope those prices are not reflecting the true situation of the rental market now, cos that's kind of a disaster,considering from the 50 k we have to take out the 10 k for the maintainance fees which really leaves us with 40 ???? Anyway thank you all for the opinion.. will let you know how it went


----------



## sidxb

As expected the current slowdown would give breathing space and may help in evolution of property laws. Mods please delete if its repost as I think it is almost a day old news.

*New Dubai Land law promises property refunds*



> Details of the proposed laws were revealed in a newsletter from the law firm Al Tamimi and Company, which ran a dialogue between Lisa Dale, the head of the firm’s property practice, and Emad Eldin Farouq, a senior legal adviser at the Dubai Land Department.





> Property investors in Dubai will be eligible for refunds or replacement property if they fall victim to unscrupulous or failing developers, under laws planned for this year.
> 
> And developers will face new financial penalties if the buildings they promise are not delivered on time, or to agreed specifications.





> The laws would also establish the grounds on which a purchaser can demand cancellation of the contract if, for instance, the developer refuses to link payment plans with construction milestones.


----------



## sidxb

^^ If the above law comes into effect , developers would surely need to straighten there act. There may be some official project cancellations and refunded money finding its way into progressing or completed projects.


----------



## Mistermark

Ingi said:


> So i guess 75k negotiable would not be too much to ask.. considering the size and the quality...right?
> By the way how does is work now with the renting agreements? Is it a must to appoint an agent in order to have it registered with Rera?


75k could be a bit optimistic or way below what the place is worth, depending on what building it's in, what flood, what aspect/views and, to an extent, its size. If you could give us this info I'm sure people here will let you know what they think it will rent for.


----------



## Mistermark

sidxb said:


> ^^ If the above law comes into effect , developers would surely need to straighten there act. There may be some official project cancellations and refunded money finding its way into progressing or completed projects.


I disagree. The law could say that a developer delivering a day late has to give the apartment to the purchaser without charge and it would have no impact at all unless the court system could be relied upon to hear cases within a reasonable period of time and deliver judgements that reflected what the law stated. New laws on their own won't restore confidence in Dubai.


----------



## shagdash

sidxb said:


> I know shag how to sort listings to get worst rentals on dubizzle but worst listings DO not give you idea of market. I told single rental based on deal that went through.
> If you are finding something for pennies there would be some or other catch to it.
> Remember the story where tenants got 1 bed in discovery for around 35-40k back when going rate was around 45-55k only to find later that apts were not rented by original owner hno:
> You can only sympathize with yourself for wasting endless hours on finding worst deals and never getting one :cheers:


It takes but 2 minutes to type dubizzle.com onto ur browser, key in 1 onto no. of bedrooms and hit "search" 
Of course, I too would be searching for all kindsa reasons to justify the lower rental rates on the market than what I would want my prospective tenants to pay, if I were to see my yield vanish percentage point by percentage point. 
All in good humor sid. Great to have a sparring partner for those sleepless nights


----------



## Datok

maddie said:


> Thank you Datok
> 
> If you have any updates in the future re Bermuda Views - please post them on this site.


You are more then welcome, and I update you as soon as if have any updates.


----------



## mrobbie

sidxb said:


> There is also new rent agreement that can be downloaded from RERA website and needs to be registered afterwards BUT it is not mandatory to use new rent agreement.


Do you have a link? Looking on the RERA site, I can't find anything of use.


----------



## dubaimarina2008

This law would impose financial penalties on developers who delivered properties late and also give investors a refund or replacement if the delivered property was defective.

It would also outline grounds for cancellation of the contract by the investor - for example, the refusal of the developer to link purchase payments to construction milestones or if the developer makes material changes to the specifications of the property.

Dale told 7DAYS this law was a priority for the Land Department and Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA).

“We’ve had Law No. 13 which enabled the developer to terminate and then Law No. 9 which clarified what the developer was entitled to if he did terminate. “And on the other side of the coin you’ve obviously got purchasers and clarity on their rights to terminate if there’s a problem with the developer, and that issue is particularly important for them I think,” she said.

http://www.7days.ae/storydetails.php?id=89652&title=New laws to help investors


----------



## dubaimarina2008

*New law to offer investors protection*

New rules will cover grounds for cancellation, such as a developer’s refusal to link payments to construction milestones.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1252010_7c4b5d4708cd466b9fe2960e601edee7.aspx


----------



## dubaimarina2008

New real estate laws being considered for Dubai will give investors grounds to cancel their contracts if they fall victim to failing developers, it was reported on Monday.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/579796-cancellation-clause-in-new-dubai-real-estate-law


----------



## chefdude

Advertising underpriced properties for rental is a typical trick to get you to call the agents. When you do enquire about the "Super bargain" inevitably you will be told that it has just been rented and that they have another more expensive option available in the same building. 

There may be one or two genuine small discounted properties but when something seems to good to be true it normally is!


----------



## peacesells

Mistermark said:


> I disagree. The law could say that a developer delivering a day late has to give the apartment to the purchaser without charge and it would have no impact at all unless the court system could be relied upon to hear cases within a reasonable period of time and deliver judgements that reflected what the law stated. New laws on their own won't restore confidence in Dubai.


Agreed, the issue here is not the law but the process of obtaining a judgement. Every developer is claiming force majeure these days and the only place you can prove them right or wrong is court, RERA or DLD can't say/do anything about it.

I would also like to point out that there's a very strong 'developer lobby' constantly influencing the decisions and laws being passed by DLD and RERA. All of them (new laws and rules) go through a formal or informal developer panel and if something doesn't get a nod, it doesn't happen. So don't be too excited, these new rules will likely change nothing.


----------



## Imre

sidxb said:


> As expected the current slowdown would give breathing space and may help in evolution of property laws. Mods please delete if its repost as I think it is almost a day old news.
> 
> *New Dubai Land law promises property refunds*


I think this is just joke, wont be ever happening.

Just imagine , Emaar Nakheel etc.. will ever pay back any money for investors? I doubt.


----------



## sidxb

Imre said:


> I think this is just joke, wont be ever happening.
> 
> Just imagine , Emaar Nakheel etc.. will ever pay back any money for investors? I doubt.


Until the law comes out , anything is speculation but I hope its not a joke 

Emaar , Nakheel etc have enough portfolio that atleast they can offer replacement properties. However any such law may help those who invested with smaller developers in Jumeirah village , IC extension , Dubailand etc etc and do not see any progress on the plots. 

I think this law should be seen as way forward and not a solution of all problems in otherwise nascent and immature porperty market of Dubai. It can be enforced by RERA instead of courts and if nothing else it would bring small developers on negotiating table with investors.

However lets wait till they implement this law.


----------



## sidxb

mrobbie said:


> Do you have a link? Looking on the RERA site, I can't find anything of use.


Sorry mate , following link is giving details of rental process and NEW forms but they do not have downloadable forms anymore.
http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/rentals/rental_process.do?lang=0

I checked with my friend who rented his property and according to him he got the old rental agreement form ( the green color form ) from typing shop in Satwa.


----------



## Imre

sidxb said:


> However any such law may help those who invested with smaller developers in Jumeirah village , IC extension , Dubailand etc etc and do not see any progress on the plots.


Most of developers in those area already gone or they have no money, how will they refund anything?

Its too late ,they should have brought this law in 2008 , not now, any delays just good for developers because they can save all money outside UAE.


----------



## mrobbie

sidxb said:


> Sorry mate , following link is giving details of rental process and NEW forms but they do not have downloadable forms anymore.
> http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/rentals/rental_process.do?lang=0
> 
> I checked with my friend who rented his property and according to him he got the old rental agreement form ( the green color form ) from typing shop in Satwa.


No worries, thanks for the update.


----------



## peacesells

sidxb said:


> Until the law comes out , anything is speculation but I hope its not a joke
> 
> Emaar , Nakheel etc have enough portfolio that atleast they can offer replacement properties. However any such law may help those who invested with smaller developers in Jumeirah village , IC extension , Dubailand etc etc and do not see any progress on the plots.


Emaar, Nakheel or any government-backed companies are the ones where you will have most luck AFTER you get a court judgement in your favor.

If a small developer with two/three buildings gets a bunch of judgements demanding money or units he doesn't have, he will skip town or more likely declare the company insolvent and live happily ever after with you trying to liquidate the office furniture and the half-paid plots in a giant sandpit. People in general have this mentality that if there's a law, it will be fully enforced and everything will be fine. It doesn't work like that. Even if you somehow prove that the developer is in the wrong, it's not like the owners will automatically pay you - if they don't have the money, they don't have the money and that's that. They can't magically create it from air, they can't borrow it from a bank (if they could, they probably wouldn't be in the mess in the first place) and they certainly won't pull it out from their own pockets because if they're smart, they don't actually own any significant assets (their wives/sons/offshores do) and their corporate structure limits the liability to the company assets only.


----------



## docc

I guess these laws are being laid as foundations for tomorrow which makes sense. Dubai really needs to straighten its act if it wants to restore confidence in itself globally.


----------



## glover

the current laws way favor developers. a law like this will definitely help in bringing some confidence back as well as give current investors some relief when it comes to unscrupulous developers. at the least, it will put these developers on notice and force them to clean up their act.

if this law passes, i would think you can sue developers for compensation of lost rental revenue/income and such when they hand over the project late.


----------



## smussuw

Yea, would u rather go to RERA to solve ur issues or go to a court instead? With such laws everyones rights and obligations will be clear !


----------



## Porcello

This law is not going to happen, and even if it does happen, it will be in favor of the developers' lobby. Shall I remind everyone that we are still waiting for the strata law since 2007........


----------



## Dubai_Steve

They have already been bussed around to view repossessed properties in Florida but now coach loads of Chinese investors are set to tackle Dubai.

There is so much interest in buying cheap properties in the emirate where prices have fallen by up to 50% in some locations, that a group of Chinese investors are due to arrive in Dubai next month.

The group of twenty investors from the Zhejiang province in eastern China plan to make the trip towards the end of February. As prices soar in China they see Dubai as offering considerable investment opportunities.

‘When they learned of such an opportunity to visit Dubai, more than twenty members expressed an interest in joining the visiting group,’ said Zhou Dewen, head of the Wenzhou SME Business Development and Promotion Association.

‘Although the economy there has not revived yet, we believe big business opportunities exist not only in property, but also in export trading,’ he added.

http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/chinese-flock-to-dubai-201001253836.html


----------



## Spurs

Dubai_Steve said:


> They have already been bussed around to view repossessed properties in Florida but now coach loads of Chinese investors are set to tackle Dubai.
> 
> There is so much interest in buying cheap properties in the emirate where prices have fallen by up to 50% in some locations, that a group of Chinese investors are due to arrive in Dubai next month.
> 
> The group of twenty investors from the Zhejiang province in eastern China plan to make the trip towards the end of February. As prices soar in China they see Dubai as offering considerable investment opportunities.
> 
> ‘When they learned of such an opportunity to visit Dubai, more than twenty members expressed an interest in joining the visiting group,’ said Zhou Dewen, head of the Wenzhou SME Business Development and Promotion Association.
> 
> ‘Although the economy there has not revived yet, we believe big business opportunities exist not only in property, but also in export trading,’ he added.
> 
> http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/chinese-flock-to-dubai-201001253836.html


The old "slow boat from China story" again


----------



## peacesells

glover said:


> if this law passes, i would think you can sue developers for compensation of lost rental revenue/income and such when they hand over the project late.


You can do that now. The problem, as Mistermark pointed out, is that it is probably not worth additional money/time to do so. RERA and DLD are regulatory bodies and cannot/will not act as a court to resolve disputes. If you want to see Dubai as a place where an investor can quickly and affordably have his case viewed and a legally binding judgement passed, it's the court system that needs work rather than RERA/DLD. They can issue a million different rules and laws but if you have a clogged up and expensive court system, it will hardly make any difference. 

I guess you can say that if there's a clearly laid out law in place, a court will spend less time looking at the case but it's not like the issues faced by UAE property investors are very complicated in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## Alabri

*Standard and Poor's dowgraded DHCO*

Dubaï Properties is a member of Dubai Properties Group
Dubaï Properties Group is a member od Dubaï Holding Commercial Operations
Dubaï Holding Commercial Operations was downgraded this monday by Standard and Poor's from BB+ to B


----------



## dubaimarina2008

Imre said:


> Most of developers in those area already gone or they have no money, how will they refund anything?


Then they should go to jail.


----------



## Mistermark

cayman1 said:


> 27 . 1 . 2010
> 
> Our Vision | To become an internationally recognized statistics center, supporting development in the emirate of Dubai.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Population Clock
> 1,780,039
> Individual
> 2010
> 
> Despite all , population grow day by day , it seems.


1. The moon is made of cheese
2. Pigs can fly
3. Leprechauns live at the end of my garden
4. The population of Dubai grew in 2009

^^ Latest findings of the statistics department of the Government of Dubai.


----------



## dubaifirst

what is the average price/sqft for high quality 1 bed marina apartments?


----------



## agod

You boy's might be interested in my posts on Marina escape thread
Just so pissed of with this so called "Quality Developer" I know think you self lucky it got built, yeh but to what standard, after they pick our pockets for so much money, as well.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=50837383#post50837383

A.


----------



## Imre

^^

That bad, TGR and Pentominium will be the same rubbish?


----------



## agod

Well Imre, I believe they have used the same doors in all buildings, the same Kitchens, the same flimsy toilet seats, the same of everything, even the Penthouses here are the same crap in them, i believe the Villas got it as well, in fact one has just been sold in Avant, and he is ripping it all out and starting again, I think the Pentominium, if it gets built will be a Salvitore something or other design, I have seen the picture, which means nothing at all with this crowd....................I would even put money on it, that they get the same doors as all Trident developmets.
They must have a Ship load of them somewhere, or they make them in China themselves.

A.


----------



## dubaifirst

I am glad in a way that i sold my TGR apartment last year, however when visited Dubai last week it looked very impressive from outside, lets hope the finish will be better that other TGR developments.

I am keen on buying in silverene, Imre what do you think is a fair price for type 3 or 4 b in silverene bearing in mind the original price was 760 AED/ sq ft, thanks in advance.


----------



## Mistermark

dubaifirst said:


> what is the average price/sqft for high quality 1 bed marina apartments?


I depends how high quality, but maybe AED 1200-1300/sq ft.


----------



## Imre

dubaifirst said:


> I am keen on buying in silverene, Imre what do you think is a fair price for type 3 or 4 b in silverene bearing in mind the original price was 760 AED/ sq ft, thanks in advance.


I havent heard any transactions since November 2009, so no idea about the correct price.


----------



## glover

the law is actually Law No. 27 of 2007 (Strata Law). here is a link to the full text of the law.

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cach...bai&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ae&client=firefox-a



234sale said:


> Strata Law last march 08,,, I haven't forund a full copy of this law anywhere.


----------



## Philippa C

agod said:


> You boy's might be interested in my posts on Marina escape thread
> Just so pissed of with this so called "Quality Developer" I know think you self lucky it got built, yeh but to what standard, after they pick our pockets for so much money, as well.
> 
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=50837383#post50837383
> 
> A.


It sounds like a nightmare. Any chance you can sell and buy something nicer?


----------



## agod

Philippa C said:


> It sounds like a nightmare. Any chance you can sell and buy something nicer?



No, not really, as the location and outlook is second to none, and it's just a fight with the developer that is the problem, I fought I had stoped fighting when I came here, but no, we carry on.

A.


----------



## sandb

top seed said:


> Hi,
> just i saw your discussion,
> I bought a unit in lawns 4 in feb 2008 and pay 30% and now they are asking me for another 5 percent.
> i am not living in uae at the moment and i have no idea what is going on but as i see in their web site i cant see any progress and when ever i call they don't give me any clear answer. i am really confused and dont know what i have to do. please let me know if you have got any news or you have found any solution. I'm really sick of them.
> Appreciate


Hi Top seed,
i will give you the same advice as Baba, they are not allowed to ask you for more money (that's the law) The Lawns have been launched, i think in 2006, 
if they are not able to start to build with all the money which is in the escrow acc. now,
i don't think that your payment (5%) will make a big difference in the advancement of the project but surely it will be more efficient on the interest rate growing on their bank account.

To ask for more payment it's a straigh message, very clear! 
But when you ask them what's wrong, why all these delays with the Lawns no one is able to answer you! The classical answer is, it's not our fault!!


----------



## sandb

top seed said:


> Hi,
> just i saw your discussion,
> I bought a unit in lawns 4 in feb 2008 and pay 30% and now they are asking me for another 5 percent.
> i am not living in uae at the moment and i have no idea what is going on but as i see in their web site i cant see any progress and when ever i call they don't give me any clear answer. i am really confused and dont know what i have to do. please let me know if you have got any news or you have found any solution. I'm really sick of them.
> Appreciate


Hi Top seed,
i will give you the same advice as Baba, they are not allowed to ask you for more money (that's the law) The Lawns have been launched, i think in 2006, 
if they are not able to start to build with all the money which is in the escrow acc. now,
i don't think that your payment (5%) will make a big difference in the advancement of the project but surely it will be more efficient on the interest rate growing on their bank account.

To ask for more payment it's a straigh message, very clear! 
But when you ask them what's wrong, why all these delays with the Lawns no one is able to answer you! The classical answer is, it's not our fault!!


----------



## TerryPop

*DLD with Mortgage*

Hi all,

Got a query:

Tenant was about to rent a unit we bought from Emaar a while back.

We have a mortgage on it from 2005 with NBD.

Tenant insists we register it with the Dubai land Department and we give him a copy of the Land reg.

If this was easy I would do it, but we do use the prop and it looks like its going to be a hassle to register.

Involved bank and myself and Emaar all gettng together.

Can anyone give me concrete instructions on what I need to do to get a mortgaged property registered with the Land department please 

thanks of course!


----------



## glover

^^^^^ NBD is responsible for this. They should have done it long time ago. did you ask them about it!


----------



## Philippa C

agod said:


> No, not really, as the location and outlook is second to none, and it's just a fight with the developer that is the problem, I fought I had stoped fighting when I came here, but no, we carry on.
> 
> A.


Can only wish you the best of luck then. You'd think it would be in the developer's interest to deliver the best product possible given that they've an enthusiastic group of owner occupiers wanting to work with them.


----------



## Philippa C

glover said:


> ^^^^^ NBD is responsible for this. They should have done it long time ago. did you ask them about it!


Yes our bank registered a property for us. You have to pay a fee of course to have it registered in their name. I'll try and find the letter we received which outlined the procedure.

Why does the tenant want a copy of the registration- is it for proof of ownership? Will a copy of the sales contract or certificate of completion not suffice?


----------



## shagdash

Mistermark said:


> 1. The moon is made of cheese
> 2. Pigs can fly
> 3. Leprechauns live at the end of my garden
> 4. The population of Dubai grew in 2009
> 
> ^^ Latest findings of the statistics department of the Government of Dubai.


 Love the Leprechauns bit. Took me back to Enid Blyton world.


----------



## glover

i think because there was this case in international city where tenants were screwed up thinking they have paid rents to the owner when in fact it was paid to an agent.

so the tenant is being cautious here.



Philippa C said:


> Yes our bank registered a property for us. You have to pay a fee of course to have it registered in their name. I'll try and find the letter we received which outlined the procedure.
> 
> Why does the tenant want a copy of the registration- is it for proof of ownership? Will a copy of the sales contract or certificate of completion not suffice?


----------



## Philippa C

Yes there was a case in Disco gargens too where quite a lot of people were caught out. If you show the tenant the first page of the sales contract, copy of your passport and a recent invoice for service charges (all in the same name) they should be convinced about ownership.


----------



## arunk

Hi there, just wondering if anyone is interested in picking up a 1BR Unit in venetian tower. Unit is on the third floor corner - unit size approx 900sq ft + 600sq ft terrace - corner terrace overlooks the canal and the swimming pool. 

Msg me if interested.....


----------



## hourad

According to a Cluttons’ Indicative Pricing Exercise Index, charting the percentage change in median per square foot sales price from January 2008 to December 2009 across a select number of residential areas, residential prices peaked in the middle of 2008, gaining on average 38 per cent in value between January and August 2008. The best performing areas were Jumeirah Village increasing by 68 per cent, Emaar Dubai Marina (46 per cent), Emirates Living (48 per cent), Arabian Ranches (38 per cent), Business Bay (37 per cent) and Downtown Burj Khalifa (34 per cent) over the same period.

Report:
http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2010/1/Pages/Loanseaseoncompletedprojects.aspx


----------



## 234sale

I have 3 report in front of me..

Jones Lang Lasalle
http://www.joneslanglasalle-mena.com/MENA/EN-GB/Pages/ResearchDetails.aspx?TopicName=National Research&ItemID=3142&ResearchTitle=Dubai Real Estate Market Overview - January 2010

Colliers
I have it, but website under maintanance

Asteco
http://web.asteco.com/eng/research_library_2009q4_dubai.asp

My expectation for freehold residential around DIFC / BB / BD









At the end of 2011, it unlikely for any new supply...


----------



## 234sale

hourad said:


> According to a Cluttons’ Indicative Pricing Exercise Index, charting the percentage change in median per square foot sales price from January 2008 to December 2009 across a select number of residential areas, residential prices peaked in the middle of 2008, gaining on average 38 per cent in value between January and August 2008. The best performing areas were Jumeirah Village increasing by 68 per cent, Emaar Dubai Marina (46 per cent), Emirates Living (48 per cent), Arabian Ranches (38 per cent), Business Bay (37 per cent) and Downtown Burj Khalifa (34 per cent) over the same period.
> 
> Report:
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2010/1/Pages/Loanseaseoncompletedprojects.aspx




Page 17 of JLL shows though asking prices went up, net sales prices did not.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Demand will be the key factor for Dubai’s real estate market in 2010, with inventory creating opportunities for tenants and businesses in the office sector as rents continue to fall. Meanwhile, the housing market appears headed for increased stabilization in 2010, although, excess supply should keep prices down. See the following article from Property Wire for more on this. 



Demand is likely to be the main driver of real estate performance across all sectors in Dubai in 2010, according to the latest analysis.

The Dubai office market is becoming increasingly favorable for tenants as it is witnessing a significant demand-supply mismatch along with falling rentals and increased vacancies, says a new report from consultants Jones Lang LaSalle.

While demand levels are increasing, as both existing and new tenants seek to consolidate and take advantage of better quality space becoming available on more competitive terms, there is not likely to be enough demand to meet the high level of new supply entering the market in 2010,’ says the Dubai Real Estate Market Overview January 2010.

Average vacancies across the City are therefore likely to increase from their current level of around 33% during 2010. One reason is that much of this space is contained in non-core locations that international and regional tenants will not consider. So a two tier market is therefore likely to emerge, the report points out.

Vacancies in single ownership buildings in the most sought after Central Business District locations are currently less than 10%, resulting in selective shortages in meeting certain tenant requirements.

‘The tenant is becoming the ultimate winner as the office market is going through a significant adjustment with more vacancies and cheaper rents on offer. This scenario is encouraging for businesses as it offers multiple options for expansion and relocation as Dubai becomes more competitive office location both locally and regionally,’ said Blair Hagkull, Managing Director of Jones Lang LaSalle Mena.

‘Attractive deals can be found throughout the city’s prime and peripheral areas as rental rates and capital values are hovering at pre-2007 levels,’ he added.

The report also indicates that average prices and rentals in the Dubai residential sector are expected to show more stability in 2010 as the rate of decline has slowed in the past few months. But, while conditions may stabilize in some locations and sectors, the overall market is likely to see a continued decline in average prices and rentals in 2010. The performance of different locations will be more driven by local demand and supply issues.

‘Prices seem to have stabilized over recent months, despite the existing over-supply situation. Stabilization of transactional volumes is another positive indicator of investor confidence but the lack of housing finance remains a major challenge in Dubai. An improved lending scenario is one of the key factors for a sustainable recovery as the value of mortgages as a percentage of total sales value has dropped significantly during 2009,’ explained Hagkull.

‘With an additional 24,000 units expected to be completed in 2010 and 25,000 units in 2011, there may be an emerging opportunity for both investors and financers in the Dubai residential market as it has already seen a significant level of pricing adjustment in 2009,’ he added.

Rental adjustments were comparatively less in the Dubai retail market than the office or residential sectors but the market is still moving in favor of tenants in 2010. Average rentals have declined by around 29% from the fourth quarter of 2008 to the same period in 2009 and by 13% from the third quarter and the fourth quarter of 2009 on the back of a 15 to 20% decline in retail sales in 2009, the report also reveals.

Several planned projects have experienced delays, which in turn has affected the future supply pipeline. This lower level of future supply relative to planned completions in the office and residential sectors, is providing the retail market with something of a breathing space,’ it adds.

‘This is an interesting time as the dynamics of the Dubai retail market continues to swing in favor of tenants due to falling rents and increased vacancies in some centers. In spite of the cut back in future supply levels, we expect to see an increase in shorter leases, break clauses and rent free periods as we go through this tectonic shift in the market. There will be more and more incentives for tenants due to the shift in power from landlords to tenants. We are also seeing the emergence of a two-tier retail market as occupancy rates in super regional and regional malls remain above 90% as opposed to older shopping centers,’ said Hagkull.

http://www.nuwireinvestor.com/articles/demand-will-be-key-for-dubai-real-estate-recovery-54519.aspx


----------



## jagmp

I have an offer on one of my properties in JLT. the offer is 725psft.It is little less than my purchase price but i can recover my OP plus marginal profit in favourable exchange rate.I can also keep one year rent which has another six months to go.

I am not in desparate need for cash.But the dilemma is- is it right to be in Dubai with more than one property.Ofcourse i will always keep one as a holiday home.

Frank opinions will be appreciated from the forumers.Imre i trust you a lot.


----------



## iownyou

jagmp said:


> I have an offer on one of my properties in JLT. the offer is 725psft.It is little less than my purchase price but i can recover my OP plus marginal profit in favourable exchange rate.I can also keep one year rent which has another six months to go.
> 
> I am not in desparate need for cash.But the dilemma is- is it right to be in Dubai with more than one property.Ofcourse i will always keep one as a holiday home.
> 
> Frank opinions will be appreciated from the forumers.Imre i trust you a lot.


if you have no debt on the property and you have nothing else to do with the money just keep it


----------



## Imre

jagmp said:


> I have an offer on one of my properties in JLT. the offer is 725psft.It is little less than my purchase price but i can recover my OP plus marginal profit in favourable exchange rate.I can also keep one year rent which has another six months to go.
> 
> I am not in desparate need for cash.But the dilemma is- is it right to be in Dubai with more than one property.Ofcourse i will always keep one as a holiday home.
> 
> Frank opinions will be appreciated from the forumers.Imre i trust you a lot.


Depends on what do you want with the money after the selling, if you just put money on banks better to keep the property and rent it, if you have better business , sell it.

One of my friend wasted his apartment at the JLT and now he has money in the bank but just for 2-3 %/year , which is nothing.


----------



## JBCBunny

guys _ i really hope this is ok with the mods 

Need a short let for 3 months until my place is ready- just need Internet and a bed really- today or tomorrow onwards.

Usual story "unexpected nakheel delay" lol! 

Will pay cash up front for 3 months and budget 15k in total (I Know its cheap!)- 

(I might leave early if my place is ready in time- won't expect a refund or anything)

If anyone can help- Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeaaat

Thanks alot


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Wannaberich said:


> After all in 5/8 years Dubai could be a very different and vibrant place.


I think many people are hoping and banking on that!


----------



## iownyou

Dubai_Steve said:


> I think many people are hoping and banking on that!


yes sir and it will be and it already is 
every one rushed to buy dubai because market was hot but this showes that the people who bought were bigginers so as soon as things went down as they should they now hate dubai because they didnt become rich as they wished. 
all property is good to buy anywhere in the world some places better then others but even after a war look at iraq baghdad properties up 10 times (1000%) since the war started so is a long term game 10 years plus i say this every time i bought to keep and never sell unless something better came along then i will never sell


----------



## paul66

*At Davos: Dubai Will Bounce Back Stronger*

CNBC Video:
"Dubai is going to come out of its recent credit worries stronger than it was before", Khalid Janai, executive vice chairman of Ithmaar Bank, told CNBC in Davos on Friday. "Dubai Will Bounce Back Stronger in the near future..18 months"

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1399062524&play=1


----------



## Imre

*Sales Price Index for Dubai residential properties increases 0.7 per cent in Q4 2009*

*REIDIN.com launches ‘INDEXFocus-UAE’ to improve transparency across the market and help real estate professionals benchmark and analyse residential price trends *

January 31, 2010 

The ‘Sales Price Index for Dubai’ (SPID) for residential properties (‘SPID – All Residential’) has risen by 0.7 per cent in the fourth quarter of 2009 as against Q3 2009 (base quarter 2003 Q1), according to figures released by REIDIN.com, the world’s first and leading global online information services provider. The figures have been computed via the company’s new online service – ‘INDEXFocus-UAE’, which is designed to allow accurate tracking of price fluctuations in the residential market. Launched in partnership with the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) and Dubai Land Department (DLD), the new service provides the market with a series of indices and data sets that can help improve transparency across the market and help real estate professionals benchmark and analyse residential price trends. 

‘INDEXFocus-UAE’ takes the latest information from the comprehensive database of REIDIN.com’s proprietary real estate indices and tools. According to the latest information released by the company, the ‘SPID – Villas’ (Base quarter 2003 Q1) rose by 2.6 per cent during the fourth quarter compared to the third in 2009, but has slid by 19.7 per cent versus the comparable period in 2008. Some of the 10 main districts covered by ‘INDEXFocus-UAE’ include ‘Palm Jumeirah’, where SPI – All Residential (Base quarter 2007Q1) increased by 2 per cent (Q4 versus Q3 2009). However, the quarterly SPI for both ‘Emirates Hills’ and ‘Jumeirah Lake Towers’ fell by 19 per cent during the same period (Base quarter 2004 Q1). 

“REIDIN.com’s mission is to supply real estate professionals with online information services and tools that improve transparency across emerging markets, and ‘INDEXFocus’ is a significant step towards the realisation of this goal,” said Ahmet Kayhan, CEO, REIDIN.com. “Given the dynamism of Dubai’s property market, we are confident that ‘INDEXFocus - UAE’ will provide analysts, investors, financiers and other real estate professionals with valuable market data analysis tools including accurate residential property benchmarks and trend analysis to help them grow their business. The unveiling of our latest offering in Dubai, following the successful launch of ‘INDEXFocus – Turkey’, underlines the product’s rapid evolution, and we are pleased to announce that we are currently working on a similar product for the Abu Dhabi market.” 

Similar to the Turkey Real Estate Indices platform, which covers seven major cities of Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, Izmit, Bursa, Adana and Antalya), ‘INDEXFocus-UAE’ compares house price indices with commodity prices (such as oil and gold), financial and economic indicators (such as inflation and interest rates) which are relevant to the real estate industry. The Dubai indices and calculations are based primarily on transaction records from DLD (powered by ‘DUBAIFocus’, REIDIN.com’s exclusive online information product for analysing real estate transactions in Dubai) and Property Listings through its partnership with RERA, using a proprietary moving average median series methodology solely developed in-house by REIDIN.com. The main districts and major communities and projects covered by ‘INDEXFocus-UAE’ include about 7 city-wide indices and a total of 19 district and project-based indices – ‘Business Bay’, ‘Downtown’, ‘Dubai Marina’, ‘Jumeirah Beach Residence’, and ‘The Greens’, among others.

More here:

http://dubaiconstructionupdate.blogspot.com/2010/01/sales-price-index-for-dubai-residential.html


----------



## cayman1

By

Anjana Kumar on Sunday, January 31, 2010

Drop in prices of penthouses in Dubai have been relatively lower than other types of residential units as their buyers have the financial capacity to hold on to the units, realtors said.

However, owners need to offer "higher" discounts to find buyers in the secondary market since the product caters to a niche buyer segment.

Vineet Kumar, Head of Sales – Dubai, Asteco Property Management: "Buyers of penthouses do not sell their property at low rates as their holding capacity is much better since they are more financially stable."

Mohanad Alwadiya, Managing Director, Harbor Real Estate said: "Penthouses in Dubai seem to be more resilient than other residential assets. Last year, there was an increase in the rental demand for penthouses in prime areas. This demand was mainly from high profile tenants who could take advantage of high quality units at affordable rates.

"In addition penthouses are limited in number, which has helped retain its value."

Yolanta Farah, Associate Director, Head of Residential, Sales & Leasing, Group Seven Properties, said: "Penthouses are faring better than average units. More than regular units, penthouses are owned by end users as first or second home or guest house. These owners are not selling in current market, except in cases of higher necessity as part of property consolidation. Penthouses available on secondary market are usually not the truly special ones that a penthouse should have such as a top floor with a great view, good location and space.

"There is very little demand for any property at the moment, but there is hardly any availability of really special penthouses, either."

Bernard Aoun, Manager – Residential Sales & Leasing, Better Homes, said if a client owns a penthouse it can be considered they may have a higher holding capacity.

"The penthouse properties have suffered just like any other real estate property in Dubai during the crisis. However, because there is limited supply they have survived better than the rest."

According to real estate agents, penthouse prices have dropped anywhere between 25 and 50 per cent in the past one year. "The asking prices have seen a drop of 25 per cent to 30 per cent," said Kumar.

"The selling price in secondary sales started from Dh2,000 per square foot for a penthouse in Emaar's building in Dubai Marina. The recently released Executive Towers on Sheikh Zayed Road has a penthouse of 5,877 sq ft selling at Dh1,600 per sq ft amounting to Dh9.4 million.

Aoun said on an average, the prices of the penthouses in Dubai have come down by 50 per cent from 2008. Alwadiya said that prices of penthouses dropped by an average of 35 per cent since last year.

According to Group Seven Properties, some penthouses in Dubai's secondary market are in the Golden Mile, with building number 4 developed by IFA going for Dh4.2m. Bayside Residence in Dubai Marina, developed by Trident at the 22nd floor; with a total area of 6,500 sq ft and a full Marina view is around Dh10m.

In South Ridge, Burj Downtown, a three-bedroom apartment of 3,003 sq ft area plus balcony with Burj views is around Dh5.9m. Indigo Tower in Jumeirah Lake Tower, a four-bedroom penthouse apartment of 3,745 sq ft area with lake views is Dh4.1m.

Real estate agents said that average return on investment (RoI) is between five and seven per cent for penthouses.

"We are looking today at between five per cent and seven per cent RoI, which in a depressed market is considered as a great return on investment," said Aoun.

Better Homes also said average rental yields for penthouses currently are a minimum of five per cent in a case-by-case scenario.

Alwadiya said rental yields for penthouse is currently around three to five per cent compared to other residential assets.

"We believe penthouses can offer very handsome capital growth opportunities over the longer term. We estimate an average of 40 per cent in capital growth would be realistic over a six-to-seven year period and the downside risk to achieving this is considered minimal."

Farah said while over-investment in real estate during 2008 put some people in trouble, those buying penthouses are generally educated buyers who know that buying the best in the best location is safer, regardless of market conditions.

Kumar said unlike the rest of the world, Dubai's penthouses offer options to buyers to buy it as shell and core so buyers can finish the apartment to their liking with their personal choice.

Aoun said that it is not possible to compare Dubai and the rest of the world in terms of real estate because the emirate is still an emerging market where taste and requirements are often different.

However, Alwadiya said penthouses in Dubai are much bigger in space and offer better value for money in terms of price per square foot. "In addition, there are no property taxes in Dubai which makes owning a penthouse better," he said.

"By international standards, the prices of penthouses in Dubai are low. Prime penthouses in Central London are being offered between Dh9,000 per sq ft and Dh10,000 per sq ft. In South Mumbai, it ranges between Dh2,700 per sq ft and Dh3,500 per sq ft and in Upper Manhattan it ranges between Dh8,500 per sq ft and Dh11,000 per sq ft."

Farah said that in the pre-freehold times, in "old Dubai", there were landlords who built penthouses true to their name.


Top picks

Tower: Le Reve Tower

Location: Dubai Marina

Project status: Ready

Developer: Sulaiman Al Bassam

Price: Dh18 million/Dh2,950 per square foot


Tower: The Residences

Location: Downtown Burj Khalifa Area

Project status: Ready

Developer: Emaar Properties

Price: Dh16m to Dh17m/Dh2,000 to Dh2,100 per sq ft


Tower: The Address Lake Hotel

Location: Downtown Burj Khalifa area

Project Status: Ready

Developer: Emaar Properties

Price: Dh16m/Dh3,555 per sq ft


Tower: Al Seef Tower 1

Location: Dubai Marina

Project Status: Ready

Developer: Deyaar Development

Price: Dh11m/Dh1,570 per sq ft


Tower: Bayside Residence

Location: Dubai Marina

Project Status: Ready

Developer: Trident International Holdings

Price: Dh10m/area – 6,500 square feet


Tower: Tiara Residence

Location: Palm Jumeirah

Project status: Ready

Developer: Zabeel Investments

Price: Dh9.5m


Tower: The Executive Tower

Location: Business Bay

Project status: Ready

Developer: Dubai Properties

Price: Dh7m/Dh1,000 per sq ft


Tower: Emirates Crown

Location: Dubai Marina

Project status: Ready

Developer: GGICO/Mohamed Saif Mohamed bin Shafar

Price: Dh7m/Dh850 per sq ft


Tower: Jumeirah Beach Residence, Bahar

Location: Dubai Marina

Project status: Ready

Developer: Dubai Properties

Price: Dh6.5m to Dh7.5m/Dh1,100 per sq ft to Dh1,200 per sq ft


Tower: South Ridge

Location: Burj Downtown

Project Status: Ready

Developer: Emaar

Price: Dh5.9m/area – 3,003 sq ft


Tower: Building No. 4, Golden Mile

Location: Palm Jumeirah

Project status: Ready

Developer: IFA Hotels and Resorts

Price: Dh4.2m/Dh1,000 per sq ft


Tower: Indigo Tower

Location: Jumeirah Lake Tower

Project Status: Ready

Developer: Jumeirah Properties Investment

Price: Dh4.1m/area – 3,745 sq ft


Tower: Lake Shore Tower

Location: Jumeirah Lake Tower

Project status: Ready and occupied

Developer: Al Bodor Real Estate Development

Price: Dh3m



Source: All the data, figures and pictures have been sourced from Asteco Property Management, Better Homes, Harbor Real Estate, Group Seven Properties



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----------



## shagdash

3 bed rentals in Executive Towers quoting at 110k per annum now....gonna reach that 100k mark now soon...and 2 months later? then what? further price drops?

I now feel there isn't any sanctity/sanity left in the real estate market. 

FOR RENT...

*3 BED + MAID
2088 SQFT
M TOWER
LAKE VIEW
RENT- 110K ( 1 CHEQUE)*

*2 BED
1216 SQFT
K TOWER
SZR AND POOL VIEW
rent- 90K* (2 cheques)

*1 bed
1253 sqft
B tower
BURJ AND FOUNTAIN VIEW
RENT- 70K ( 1 CHEQUE)*


----------



## DXBQuantum

110k for a 3 bed, man that is loooooooooowwwwww


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Anyone have RERA rental index for 2010 or have they abandoned the index now


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Anyone have RERA rental index for 2010 or have they abandoned the index now


What's the point of the index anymore? It was designed to stop greedy landlords hiking the rents. No longer a problem.

Market forces are taking over, some landlords with big mortgages to pay need tenants now to service the loans and take over the DEWA, housing fees and maintenance fees.

I saw a large 3 bed villa with pool for rent in mirdiff for 90k.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Problem with renting out extra low in desperation is that you can only increase the rent by a maximum small amout set each year. Is there a way out of that?


----------



## gerald.d

DXBQuantum said:


> 110k for a 3 bed, man that is loooooooooowwwwww


4 beds are now under 150k.

Will be interesting to see where the floor is here.


----------



## shagdash

DXBQuantum said:


> Executive towers rents are falling by the day;
> 
> 1. Inferior quality, and handed over in a state that is clearly not ready to be lived in.
> 
> 2. Over supply
> 
> any other reasons? Even if the prices are low, it cant compete with Emaar's properties in Downtown - Dubai Properties have such a crap reputation


Yes, the unfinished nature of this project has put off many tenants from renting here.
But when I went to view the apartment alongwith some others interested in renting in Downtown area (they were living in Downtown and looking to move), they commented on how much more spacious the apartments were and didn't find the finishing so bad.
The apartments are spacious (much more so than most available in Downtown), finishing not bad at all. However it is still a building site and access to and from the area really sucks.
The location is quite awesome really, and I think when it is fully finished it will be quite a nice area to live in, however, till then demand will be low and investors will have to suffer.
Also not to forget 2000 odd apartments coming online at Executive Towers that need to be rented out. I don't think thats gonna happen in a hurry. And that WILL put pressure on rentals in the region.


----------



## shagdash

Mistermark said:


> I think this is true. Going by the emails I get from agents, both rents and selling prices in areas such as the Marina and JLT edged up in the second half of 2009 and show no signs of falling, if anything the reverse.


Cannot comment on rest of Marina and JLT, but JBR rentals have certainly dropped and are still dropping.
It was 170k in Jun-Jul last year, 150k in Sep-Oct and rental deals have happened in Nov-Dec last year at 130k.
Don't know what they are at the moment but can check and let you know.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Imre said:


> Market is totally dead , I spoke with 2 agents today, they had no selling business in this year just rent , only few buyers left but they want very low prices thats why just few transactions.
> 
> Rent falling everywhere , you can get studio in Dubai Marina for 35K (Manchester Tower,Marina Diamonds etc..) now , 1 bed for 45K.


Maybe a nice cup of tea will help save the market 

PropahTea in Dubai Marina has been designed as a lounge for real estate professionals where clients and investors can discuss property, relaxing over a cup of tea

http://gulfnews.com/business/features/a-refreshing-real-estate-experience-1.573009


----------



## Dubai_Steve

DUBAI — Residential and commercial rents in Dubai remained unchanged during January compared to December last year despite the fact that people are still looking to upgrade, a survey by the Khaleej Times and property management company Asteco found. 

Residential rents are reasonable and people are still upgrading in terms of size, quality and location, the Asteco study said. 

The property management company said that new inventories will increase competition in the coming months and landlords will come up with reduced rents, flexible payment and contract terms. 

Demand from Abu Dhabi remained steady for units in new Dubai areas such as Discovery Gardens, Jumeirah Lake Towers and Dubai Marina. People from Northern Emirates opted for units in Al Nahdah, Al Warqaa and Mirdiff.

In several upscale neighbourhoods and projects, the average annual rent in January for a studio ranged from Dh50,000 to Dh60,000, while one-bedroom units were still ranging from Dh85,000 to Dh120,000. A two-bedroom flat was priced at Dh120,000 to Dh160,000, while a three-bedroom unit was priced at at Dh160,000 to Dh210,000, the survey found.

Areas with these rents include Dubai Marina (eg: Marina Promenade, Emaar Six Towers), Downturn Burj Dubai, Palm Jumeirah, Sheikh Zayed Road and World Trade Centre.

In the mid-tier neighbourhoods of Bur Dubai, Al Barsha, the Greens, Jumeirah Beach Residence and Dubai Marina, a studio in January went for Dh35,000 to Dh50,000, a one-bedroom flat was ranged from Dh55,000 to Dh75,000, a two-bedroom flat was priced at Dh70,000 to Dh100,000, and three-bedroom units went form Dh90,000 to Dh120,000, the survey showed.

Average annual rents were cheaper in International City, Discovery Gardens, Deira, Jumeirah Lakes Towers and some parts of Dubai Marina.

A studio in these locations was priced at Dh26,000 to Dh40,000, and a one-bedroom unit at Dh38,000 to Dh65,000. A two-bedroom flat was priced at Dh60,000 to Dh85,000, while a three-bedroom unit went for Dh90,000 to Dh110,000.

Office rents are unchanged for the last three months as enquiry level fell due to low demand.

Companies are moving from locations such as Deira to Bur Dubai or Sheikh Zayed Road. They are looking for better location and reduced rates. Four cheques and incentives such as rent-free periods are standard. 

Demand is also seen for slightly bigger units (2,000-4,000 square feet), fully fitted space and is coming from legal and logistics companies. 

Complete infrastructure, ample parking, easy access to major road networks and excellent property management are vital for the take-up of office space.

According to the survey, the average annual rent for premium commercial locations such as Dubai International Financial Centre, Downtown Burj Dubai and Sheikh Zayed Road was between Dh150 and Dh370 per square foot per annum. 

In Jumeirah Lakes Towers, Bur Dubai, Tecom, Downtown Jebel Ali and Festival City, office rents ranged from Dh55 to Dh170 per square foot per annum. 

In Deira, Dubai Silicon Oasis and Dubai Sports City, office rents ranged from Dh50 to Dh100 per square foot per annum in January.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/ins...uary/business_February39.xml&section=business


----------



## Sid

Booo hooooo ;-)


----------



## Freestyler

wannaberich, your post were helpful to me 
Takecare Dude.


----------



## High Times

MrCorleone said:


> [email protected]


^^
Pathetic loser.
Anyone who has been Banned 5 times has an attitude problem, regardless of who has banned them.

Get over it and get a life.


----------



## Imre

MrCorleone said:


> Do i sense AltinD has a passion for icecream ? vanilla perhaps with honey and nutts?
> My reply:
> I hear Altin is into nuts


----------



## 234sale

High Times said:


> ^^
> Pathetic loser.
> Anyone who has been Banned 5 times has an attitude problem, regardless of who has banned them.
> 
> Get over it and get a life.


7 Times, 

He was useful, but the comedy fell on deaf ears...

The loss is to DSO... he was a main anchor to that part of the forum, I think we all agree.

A line has to be drawn, what is acceptable and what is not..

He was warned countless times, not to have an attitude, he decided to see what would happen..

The wieght of all his posts held him in a position, but finally he over stepped the line.

I, 234sale is no greater than any of the members of this forum, we are a community.. 

The community decided.


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> 7 Times,
> 
> He was useful, but the comedy fell on deaf ears...
> 
> The loss to DSO... he was a main anchor to that part of the forum, we all agree.


I agree he may of served DSO well. (although this is purely his self serving interest).

“Cometh the hour cometh the man” and in the face of true adversity one shows ones true character.

He has shown everyone today his true self by the way he has reacted and tried to cause mayhem all over the forum, hurling more insults at Altin and myself for absolutely no reason.

He was not even man enough to offer an unreserved apology to me or anyone else he insulted along the way as a way of building bridges. He has simply destroyed any thread of credibility he ever had (all be it minimal).

From a personal point of view I will miss wannaberich like I would miss AIDS.

Bye bye. :wave:


----------



## 234sale

He should use skyscraperpage.com, that where all great x ssc users go to die...


----------



## High Times

^^
Here we go again.

I feel sorry for you mods having to put up with this.

This dude must have some serious time on his hands.


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> He should use skyscraperpage.com, that where all great x ssc users go to die...


 
:lol::lol:


----------



## 234sale

I would of happily banned you HT if being a mod was all about ego, 

I will never until you overstep the line. thus HT will probably never be banned as he doesn't go over that line


Wannaberich over stepped the line. Its not like you only had one warning,,, you had many more than most would get.

The more you go on, the more you damage your reputation.

Your time on here is over, 

Ciao bella'


----------



## AltinD

234sale said:


> He should use skyscraperpage.com, that where all great x ssc users go to die...


It's www.skyscraperlife.com actually: Made by (SSC banned) trolls, for trolls.


----------



## 234sale

AltinD said:


> It's www.skyscraperlife.com actually: Made by (SSC banned) trolls, for trolls.


Sorry Boss,, that's the one... plenty of sites that repost info from ssc are available.. 

P.S aren't you a mod on most of these sites as well.. rofl :lol:


----------



## 234sale

off topic,, just put down a deposit on a dodge charger. 76K for new.. will I regret it?


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> I would of happily banned you HT if being a mod was all about ego,
> 
> I will never until you overstep the line. thus HT will probably never be banned as he doesn't go over that line


That's why i have respect for you.

I dont agree with everything you say, and when i disagree i am big enough to argue my position and not be intimidated by your MOD badge.

I have never, nor would i be abusive just for the sake of it. I think it's all about maturity. 

Wannaberich used to get too exited, too quickly and then bust a nut. Adolescence, 

Ahhh I remember it well.


----------



## AltinD

234sale said:


> Sorry Boss,, that's the one... plenty of sites that repost info from ssc are available..
> 
> P.S aren't you a mod on most of these sites as well.. rofl :lol:


I'm member only on skyscraperpage.com but haven't visited in many months. Imre posts on most of them and, true they do repost from SSC




234sale said:


> off topic,, just put down a deposit on a dodge charger. 76K for new.. will I regret it?


Only experience has been a rental in Canada that I didn't drove but found it not comfortable and of course it's not secret my dislike for the design and materials used of almost all American cars ... Japanese as well. 

I personally for the budget and category, would have preferred the Chevy Lumina. What about Mazda 6 (dunno the price)?


----------



## 234sale

lumina was close second.. They have the challenger, but its 3 times more what the charger is..


----------



## Naz UK

Did Wannaberich get banned? Awwww, shame, cos I was quite....oh cool, a pound coin down the side of the sofa... what was I saying again?


----------



## 234sale

Morning....


----------



## Bikes

I'm starting to miss BG.


----------



## True Blue

^^Barry Gibb! 

Thought it was Maurice that died Bikes?

Haa Haa Haa Haa.. staying alive...... staying alive. *NOT!*:angel1:

Sorry, just too happy tonight with the Robbie Keane strengthened Celtic getting humped by bottom of the league Kilmarnock. Rekon Tony will be out of a job by the end of the month.:lol::cheers:


----------



## AltinD

True Blue said:


> ^^Barry Gibb!
> 
> Thought it was Maurice that died Bikes?
> 
> Haa Haa Haa Haa.. staying alive...... staying alive. *NOT!*:angel1:


You newbie


----------



## Richard Head

High Times said:


> This dude must have some serious time on his hands.


Says the man who has made an art form of digging through 5 years of posts and multi-misquoting them to prove a so-called point that he thought he had made but everyone else had forgotten. FFS, your arrogance and complete inability to see yourself as others see you has absolutely no limits does it?


----------



## High Times

^^

Thank you Dick.

I Know you must be upset losing your buddy wannabe, but try not to cry too much. I'm sure he will be back in some other guise soon enough, unless his mum makes him gets a job of course.

Good to see another great contribution to the forum from you. For someone who actually lives in Dubai you offer the sqaure root of F**k all in terms of usefull insight, photo's or discussion in this forum. Your only message is telling everyone how great Palm J is, and how early you bought so no real esate crisis effects you.

Oh and taking every oportunity you can to have a dig at me. I'm glad i excite you so much.

Well done.


----------



## shagdash

Wow we're all so confrontational this week. Must have something to do with the biggest full moon of 2010 this week.

Full moon craziness 
Many people think full moons cause strange behavior among animals and even humans. 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20100129/sc_space/biggestandbrightestfullmoonof2010tonight


----------



## 234sale

Defaults – Specifically uncompleted property

On communication to mortgage providers we currently have a hidden danger,

It was confirmed to us approximately 30% of our 2006, and other mortgage clients have already default in off-plan mortgage payments. The bank will also be unwilling to pay the final installment

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/578467-dubai-mortgage-market-down-73-in-2009
Quote. In 2009, there were a total of 3,059 new mortgages worth a total value of $7.56bn..

Thus I estimate 

2008 = $28 Billion in loans…

Default rate likely 80%, thus loss for 2008 is $ 22.4Billon still on the loan book.


But it gets worse, 
I expect 
30% of 2006
50% of 2007
30% of 2009

Estimated $40Billion of default, sitting on the bank books just being serviced by the defaulting party if they can.


----------



## True Blue

^^Won't help if the defaults are on properties with little or no progress in which case not worth much to the bank to reposses and try and sell on.


----------



## True Blue

According to a post in the Completed section Zumurud thread, the property visas are back on for a property with a price of AED1.0million. This was my response to a related post;


Iwis said:


> I have 2 apartments in dubai ,but neither of it is 1 million ...but since i have two apartments can i apply for this visa??hno:


Frustrating! I have the same problem. The more expensive apartment was 1.03M but I then got a repeat customer discount of 10% which brings the price below AED1million.:bash:

What about people who bought a 3 bed in 2003-2004 in places like Al Majara and Al Sahab? There should be a property price index to allow them to adjust prices to a base date.(maybe there is.:dunno


----------



## Imre

Not sure just Bizzybonita posted, anyone has got a property visa yet?


----------



## glover

i get your point, but Al Majara and Al Sahab's 3 beds were well above 1m OP, more around 1.5m. My 2 bed was above 1m OP, though i bought it in the secondary market back in 2006. 

a better example will be JBR. i think 3 beds were going for 800k or so OP.


True Blue said:


> What about people who bought a 3 bed in 2003-2004 in places like Al Majara and Al Sahab? There should be a property price index to allow them to adjust prices to a base date.(maybe there is.:dunno


----------



## AltinD

Imre said:


> Not sure just Bizzybonita posted, anyone has got a property visa yet?


Are you saying Bizzy is not reliable?


----------



## Imre

AltinD said:


> Are you saying Bizzy is not reliable?


Just not official


----------



## True Blue

glover said:


> i get your point, but Al Majara and Al Sahab's 3 beds were well above 1m OP, more around 1.5m. My 2 bed was above 1m OP, though i bought it in the secondary market back in 2006.
> 
> a better example will be JBR. i think 3 beds were going for 800k or so OP.


I thought these were around the first to be released in the marina at 4-500AED/ft. Did they not launch around 2003/4?


----------



## Opus 2009

True Blue said:


> I thought these were around the first to be released in the marina at 4-500AED/ft. Did they not launch around 2003/4?


Yes they did. I was one of the first purchasers in the Majara - the marina facing 1 beds started AED 630 psf or thereabouts, the sh z road facing ones were slightly cheaper.


----------



## glover

around there. but i am sure of my numbers. Emaar sold my apartment to the original owner at a little less than 1.1m OP (seen the original contract). 

A 3 bed penthouse in al-Majara was also on the market then (2006). Asking price was 1.9m, OP was around 1.6m (also seen the contract).

Emaar has always been high like this from the beginning.



True Blue said:


> I thought these were around the first to be released in the marina at 4-500AED/ft. Did they not launch around 2003/4?


----------



## 234sale

True Blue said:


> ^^Won't help if the defaults are on properties with little or no progress in which case not worth much to the bank to reposses and try and sell on.


Repossession of real estate

19 Jan 10

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/579191-exclusive-first-bank-repossession-on-palm-jumeirah

The Palm Jumeirah has witnessed its first property repossession, resulting in a bank selling an apartment for just AED745 per square foot – nearly 35 percent below the current market rate.


* This is the first of many I'm afraid.


11 Jan 10

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/578407-barclays-wins-first-foreclosure-orders-on-dubai-homes

Barclays wins first foreclosure orders on Dubai homes
by BloombergThis email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it on Monday, 11 January 2010 

FORECLOSURE ORDERS: Barclays Bank has won the first foreclosure orders in Dubai. Barclays, Britain's second largest bank, has won the first foreclosure orders in Dubai, clearing the way for lenders holding about $16bn of Dubai home loans to take action when borrowers don’t pay.


----------



## Tha Spy

arunk said:


> Hi there, just wondering if anyone is interested in picking up a 1BR Unit in venetian tower. Unit is on the third floor corner - unit size approx 900sq ft + 600sq ft terrace - corner terrace overlooks the canal and the swimming pool.
> 
> Msg me if interested.....


Yes we would all love to sell our apartments at the moment. Mine is in `The Cube` when it finally gets finished 2011.Still at ground level at the moment although they have put 4 basements in already. I feel that if the developers and owners of DSC would show some willing and get the stadiums, shopping malls, and remainder of DSC finished we would all be happy because once it is finished it will be a fabulous showpiece.


----------



## mackie1964

*£ / AED*

Where is is heading to?


----------



## 234sale

The first wave of the tsunami has passed, the second and third are on the way.

Printing money is not the solution, it was a quick fix.










top ftse100
bottom pound/aed

180days


----------



## TerryPop

paul66 said:


> More on the Dubai Oil discovery on CNBC...
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1405736676&play=1


around 2:20 he says he would be surprised if it wasn't a sizeable oil field of 100,000 to 200,000 barrels per day.

He also mentions cost of production shouldn;t be more then 15 USD per day.

If thats the case then there is some income there 

Considering Dubai is on 50,000 BPD now, it could double,treble, quadruple their oil income.

Big IF but what fun if it is....

:banana:


----------



## True Blue

mackie1964 said:


> Where is is heading to?


Once upon a time all I did was buy Dirhams and this sort of situation was devastating, but now it's an opportunity to sell dirhams and buy GBP. Ever goes back to 7+/GBP then move it back to Dubai.

HMRC are getting wise to this now and they specifically ask you if you have made profits on currency exchanges in the tax year.

FTSE has dropped around 10% since a few weeks ago, sense some bad news is due soon. The Haiti aid funding must have bust the UK.


----------



## 234sale

True Blue said:


> FTSE has dropped around 10% since a few weeks ago, sense some bad news is due soon. The Haiti aid funding must have bust the UK.


Northern Ireland was another 800M for everyone to get along.


----------



## Mistermark

I guess the problem is that Sterling is suffering relative to the Dollar (which is therefore making the Dirham appear strong). This may be because there are fears of another economic shock (defaults/expensive rescue package for some Eurozone countries; possible asset price bubble bursting in China) causing the nervous to seek refuge in the Dollar. This makes no sense to me as the per-head indebtedness of the US dwarfs even the UK's and the overall position of the Eurozone. So I see this as a temporary trend, and predict that the Dollar/Dirham will weaken again against Sterling in time.


----------



## speculator

Whatever the stats the dollar is a reserve currency unlike sterling. 

As George Soros said not long ago about sterling " its finished "

I personally think it has someway further to fall.


----------



## Freestyler

in $s you can calculate in AED. There is good support at 1.53, but I don't think GBP will go down that much. It seems to have stop falling.


----------



## amplesou

amplesou said:


> Rob Timpie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no Amplesou, you're very wrong.
> Look at this answer from Memon...
> 
> oh no i hate it when i,m wrong!:nuts:
> mikeMuz and shiraj will accuse me of being negative again :lol::lol::lol: !
> 
> 
> 
> Talking of these 2 they have gone very quiet at the moment !
> Hi are you out there !
> Your apartments are getting built don,t worry ,you have,nt messed up !
> :lol::lol::lol:
Click to expand...


----------



## docc

I wonder how much lower gold can go. Anyone's crystal ball skills looking good? 

It seems like the only worthwhile investment these days!


----------



## Freestyler

Is there any office in JLT selling under AED 600 psf?


----------



## Freestyler

docc said:


> I wonder how much lower gold can go. Anyone's crystal ball skills looking good?
> 
> It seems like the only worthwhile investment these days!


When people something is good investment, it is time to sell  Speaking from my experience. Gold is overpriced currently imo. 

Best invest imo is AED 1,000 psf on Al Reem Island on good location with 20/80 or 30/70 payment plan.


----------



## Freestyler

Freestyler said:


> in $s you can calculate in AED. There is good support at 1.53, but I don't think GBP will go down that much. It seems to have stop falling.


Spoke too soon. GBP is falling again. 1.558 now. Good support is at 1.53, if that breaks than market is in panic mode.


----------



## speculator

The decline of sterling is not particularly today or tomorrow its longer term. Every fundamental points to it going downwards. Can anyone come up with a good reason to counter my view.


----------



## sidxb

Freestyler said:


> When people something is good investment, it is time to sell  Speaking from my experience. Gold is overpriced currently imo.
> 
> Best invest imo is AED 1,000 psf on Al Reem Island on good location with 20/80 or 30/70 payment plan.


1000 psf on Reem Island !!! Have you visited the island. IMO it is another 3-5 years from getting into any stable community. Why not put less than 1000 psf at distress sale in Dubai Marina or JBR ? These communities have already got into some mature shape and you are not taking future risk as in Reem Island.


----------



## Freestyler

sidxb said:


> 1000 psf on Reem Island !!! Have you visited the island. IMO it is another 3-5 years from getting into any stable community. Why not put less than 1000 psf at distress sale in Dubai Marina or JBR ? These communities have already got into some mature shape and you are not taking future risk as in Reem Island.


Because demand vs supply and population growth is better in Abu Dhabi and thus upside potential is higher. DM, JBR, and JLT has demand also coming from Abu Dhabi for people who want to save on accommodation.

Another thing, JBR is getting old, I don't know if people are counting depreciation on the buildings. How old it is now? 5 years?


----------



## Freestyler

speculator said:


> The decline of sterling is not particularly today or tomorrow its longer term. Every fundamental points to it going downwards. Can anyone come up with a good reason to counter my view.


Medium to long-term fundamentals are worse for USD.


----------



## speculator

Freestyler said:


> Medium to long-term fundamentals are worse for USD.


That still doesn't stop the pound from falling from grace.


----------



## Freestyler

speculator said:


> That still doesn't stop the pound from falling from grace.


All fiat currencies fall, it is always relative to other currencies. But pound will go up against USD in the mid to long-term.


----------



## Mistermark

Freestyler said:


> Medium to long-term fundamentals are worse for USD.


I agree with this. The US has more debt per head of population and has done more quantitative easing. Plus, it is culturally a low-tax, small-state country so it will be harder to cure the debt by putting taxes up and slashing the state (because it's already fairly minimal), whereas both things will happen in the UK. It also has a President that is expanding state spending, rather than cutting it. So I see no quick solution to the US's currency woes and view the current rally as simply a function of the Dollar's historic role as a/the reserve currency, combined with concerns over the Euro (well-founded, in my view).


----------



## Imre

I found this:



Imre said:


> October 26, 2003
> 
> *Dubai to guarantee capital of investors, says al-Maktoum*
> 
> DUBAI, Oct 25: The government of Dubai will guarantee capital invested in projects in the emirate, the emirate’s crown prince Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum said in an interview published on Saturday.
> 
> *Dubai will not allow any (investor) to lose ... If anyone’s investment in Dubai regresses, and if the capital regresses, then the government of Dubai will give him, and it will buy what he has invested in, al-Maktoum said in Al-Bayan newspaper.*


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

I found this....

A member of the royal family, Sheikh Maktoum Hasher Maktoum Al Maktoum, in the United Arab Emirates has for the first time been sued by an Iranian executive on charges of fraud. Shahram Abdullah Zadeh has sued the brother-in-law ( Sheikh Hasher Maktoum Al Maktoum) of the emir of Dubai ( Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum) in an unprecedented civil action in the UAE. The 37-year-old Iranian national has accused the brother-in-law, Hasher Maktoum Bin Juma'a Al Maktoum, of trying to take over Zadeh's real estate firm Al Fajer Properties Dubai.

Misleading advertisements and press releases, overselling of non existing space and the missing down payments are among the buyers' documented complaints, according to Moses Oye, a British investor and spokesperson for the Al Fajer Properties Investors Group having investors from US, UK, Russia, Iran, India, Canada & Pakistan.

"We are calling on Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) and the Dubai Ruler's Court to investigate the developer, cancel the Ebony Ivory project and compel a refund of our $140 million in down payments," said Oye.
Oye cited a series of fake construction photographs that ran in a local newspaper in July 2008 with Al Fajer Properties logo. The photos showed a structure rising six floors above ground with the following caption: "Shot on location on 10th June 2008, Ebony Ivory, Jumeirah Lakes Towers

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Sheik...m+Al+Maktoum+Al+Fajer+Properties-a01073971073


----------



## Richard Head

^^ What an utter waste of time and money. The only ones who will benefit from this are the lawyers.


----------



## speculator

Imre said:


> I found this:


I found this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imre View Post
October 26, 2003

Dubai to guarantee capital of investors, says al-Maktoum

DUBAI, Oct 25: The government of Dubai will guarantee capital invested in projects in the emirate, the emirate’s crown prince Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum said in an interview published on Saturday.

Dubai will not allow any (investor) to lose ... If anyone’s investment in Dubai regresses, and if the capital regresses, then the government of Dubai will give him, and it will buy what he has invested in, al-Maktoum said in Al-Bayan newspaper.
*
What a joke. This resembles all the hype when Dubai launched its property market to the world. Difference is this time it sounds very desperate.

Why dont they just do what needs to be done rather than come out with these hot air statements.*


----------



## cayman1

Dubai is over


----------



## mackie1964

Imre; Do you have a scan of that Newspaper article?



Imre said:


> I found this:


Originally Posted by Imre 
October 26, 2003 



> Dubai to guarantee capital of investors, says al-Maktoum
> 
> DUBAI, Oct 25: The government of Dubai will guarantee capital invested in projects in the emirate, the emirate’s crown prince Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum said in an interview published on Saturday.
> 
> Dubai will not allow any (investor) to lose ... If anyone’s investment in Dubai regresses, and if the capital regresses, then the government of Dubai will give him, and it will buy what he has invested in, al-Maktoum said in Al-Bayan newspaper.


----------



## 234sale

cayman1 said:


> Dubai is over


Its not over, it needs to change again.

We need Dubai 3.0, version 2.0 has to many errors, going back to version 1.0 would not be suggested.

Code can be used from any of the previous versions but actually what its useful for needs to be definned.


----------



## Imre

mackie1964 said:


> Imre; Do you have a scan of that Newspaper article?


I dont have , it was on the internet but maybe removed, I didnt find again.

I posted on The Lighthouse Tower , Dubai Marina thread , still there.


----------



## peacesells

gerald.d said:


> How is it a nightmare? I actually went to Abu Dhabi this week using that exact way out of JLT, and it was a piece of piss.
> 
> Now I'm not claiming that entry/exit to/from JLT is perfect, far from it, but I'd hardly describe it as a nightmare.


Ok, it's not a nightmare as in Emirates-Road-from-Sharjah nightmare, but not as good as its Marina counterpart.


----------



## cayman1

Its not over, it needs to change again.

We need Dubai 3.0, version 2.0 has to many errors, going back to version 1.0 would not be suggested.

I hope i'm unlucky investor like many other:bash:


----------



## bizzybonita

Here one of big error inside Dubai Market...need an urgent treat by 2010

*Called for speedy issuance regulation and the development of professional standards and economic valuation of assets 
Real estate: real estate market you need to sign the statement of asset values *

Real estate experts said, the real estate market in Dubai you need to clear assessments, taking into account economic developments, and an indication of the real value of the assets, to support the market, and increase the volume of real estate transactions. 

They pointed out that the market is currently experiencing some confusion as a result of the global financial crisis, which led to the downturn in property prices by about 50%, confirming that the foundations of real estate valuation that takes into account only the cost of the drug, not enough to clarify the real value of assets, which saw the cost, without a decline in economic value of the asset ». 

They called for speedy issuance regulation of the activity of real estate valuation, and organization of work of residents, and the development of professional standards and economic valuation of assets is based. They pointed out that «the evaluation affect the three aspects of the President in the broader market, namely: the process of calculating profits or losses, and real estate transactions, access to mortgage, and called to update the information provided by the Land Department in Dubai real estate sector, to assist residents in restoring confidence between investors and developers. 

Transparency of information 

And detailed, "said director of real estate valuation company, Landmark Real Estate, Saeed Hashemi, said that« due to the changes and fluctuations large fast-growing real estate market in the UAE, customers are looking to know the true value of their assets, whether those clients companies or individuals ». 

He explained that «all the evaluations done by residents possess a certification from the Royal Institute of legal residents and are in accordance with the guidelines for (Red Book) of the Institute», referring to being an accredited institution by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency in Dubai. 

He added that «the transparency of information is one of the challenges that face real estate valuation, and that to overcome this challenge, the residents enjoy the full support by (Advisory Services), for the actual data of great value for us, giving us the ability to provide proper assessment». 

Confusion and instability 

For his part, said real estate expert, Ahmed Obwalchiben, said that «the real estate market in Dubai you need to clear assessments take into account economic developments», pointing out that «the market is currently constrained by the crisis, which led to the downturn in property prices locally». 

He explained that «the foundations of evaluation that take into account the cost of real estate property only, not enough to clarify the real value of the assets», pointing out that «the cost down, without a decline in economic value of the asset». He pointed out that «the most important challenges facing the real estate assessment process at the present time, the instability of the market, price fluctuations, as well as poor information available in the market, which enables the resident to develop an accurate assessment of the assets». 

He added that «there must be resident in the real estate, expertise and efficiency Allazmtan to carry out the evaluation, as well as the need for rehabilitation through the Real Estate Regulatory Agency, to ensure the efficiency of the process of valuation of assets». 

In a related context, he started Real Estate Assessment Center, part of the Land Department in Dubai, work in the granting of licenses to residents of real estate, where he is expected to publish the list of special legal resident registration process soon. 

According to the department, the center will be resident registration, and the Statute, through publication of a book is particularly reliable in the assessment process, which is «Book of the UAE real estate assessment». 

Will depend Center companies and individuals engaged in work evaluation in Dubai, which will list the criteria and bases used in the evaluation process, and preparation of training courses for residents of real estate. 

The head of Real Estate Assessment Center, Mohamed Daha, warned earlier, from the «there are people present themselves as residents of Real estate, although they have a real estate brokerage license just», calling for a «lack of integration between the professions (real estate valuation), and (real estate brokerage ), and the distinction between them, and verification of the license issued to the people before seeking advice and service ». 

Impact assessment process 

Meanwhile the General Manager of «instruments» Real Estate, reciprocating Hattab, the «real estate valuation, by definition, is to assess the value of the property», pointing out that «the evaluation process that will significantly impact on three aspects: evaluation for the calculation of profit or losses, and evaluation of the sale process, and evaluation in order to obtain a mortgage ». 

He believed that «the real estate sector assessment needs to be updated, based on information that must be provided by the Land Department in Dubai, where the assessment role of the President and important role in the sector, is the restoration of confidence among investors and developers». 

He added that «it is important for the user ratings by the Land Department, to include an indication technically possible to identify the true values of real estate, and taking into account technical and financial aspects when conducting real estate appraisal». 

He added that «can not stop the organization of the sector assessment in a book for evaluation, and training residents for days, but must be controls for the work of companies that will work in evaluation activity», calling for «an agreement on the basis of real estate valuation among all parties, especially in specific projects that are evaluated differently ». 

http://www.emaratalyoum.com/Article...2102010_cf446ecec49148c899f2c21241203946.aspx


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> Its not over, it needs to change again.
> 
> We need Dubai 3.0, version 2.0 has to many errors, going back to version 1.0 would not be suggested.
> 
> Code can be used from any of the previous versions but actually what its useful for needs to be definned.


Nice analogy. I think we will end up with version 1.1 with a free service pack upgrade.

The only thing that can save Dubai from being an ugly joke is people, lots of them, and people with money.

The indigenous folk cant sustain the development, nor can tourists. Big brother doesn’t want foreigners to settle either.

It’s simple maths. 1 million residents earning Dh 250k – Dh 500k pa and it’s a done deal. Let them in. 

On with the show.


----------



## 234sale

Dubai 3.0

1 year visa "renewable" = ownership of property + 10,000 AED annual charge

Opening a Business = 10% of expected turnover Bond with Municipality(min 100,000 AED), refundable on closure. Transaction Tax, 15% on any transaction, paid to DM.

Bankruptcy insurance on bank accounts, Insolvency law leads to deportation without criminal charge.


----------



## 234sale

cayman1 said:


> Its not over, it needs to change again.
> 
> We need Dubai 3.0, version 2.0 has to many errors, going back to version 1.0 would not be suggested.
> 
> I hope i'm unlucky investor like many other:bash:


I have been in Dubai from the beginning of Dubai 2.0, I expect everything to change again.

Rather than sponsors, let DM make the profit on expat entrepreneurs. 

Renewable Visas is a easy money spinner, If 1 Million people want live here and own property without working, 10,000 AED annually is 10 Billion AED of free money.


----------



## 234sale

High Times said:


> Nice analogy. I think we will end up with version 1.1 with a free service pack upgrade.On with the show.[/FONT][/COLOR]


I'm coming round yours later and installing Windows 3.1...










or










Having installed win 3.1 on to a machine the other week for a laugh, the nostalgia wears off quickly.


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> I'm coming round yours later and installing Windows 95...


Excellent. Will it work on my ZX81.

>10 PRINT "HIGH TIMES LOVES DUBAI" 
>20 GOTO 10


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Perhaps Sh.Mo should install VMWARE to test Dubai 1.1 first. If it crashes he can release 1.2 instead.


----------



## Tom_Green

As long as Dubai doesn`t solve it`s debt problem the city will not growth again.


----------



## HateTorch

Unfortunately version-1.0 is what the local public needs, and stable.

Version-2.0 is not well-tested, not architecturally robust, and yet released to public. The programmers know the bugs, but are letting the users to discover them in public release. However one bug fixed revealed another 2 more bugs etc. The bugs discovered outpaced the fixes available.

The entire codebase of Version-2 is too fragmented and sphagatti.

They should revamp the entire codebase, with new architecture and paradigm, for Version-3, to allow proper extensions/plugins to be added to their infrastructure, with strict integrity checking.

With the above, and with existing marketing team, users will still buy into Version-3, even though they had bad experience with Version-2.


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Maybe they should jump platforms and form factors entirely and get the iPad.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

DUBAI (Zawya Dow Jones)--U.K. business secretary Peter Mandelson Sunday urged Dubai to reach an agreement to settle its debts, or risk its reputation with investors as details of a potential deal between creditors and troubled conglomerate Dubai World emerged. 

"Time is running out," Mandelson told delegates at a lunch hosted for British business in the emirate. "The current uncertainties and lack of agreement can&apos;t go on for much longer. As we approach decisions, Dubai has to be as open as possible on talks with banks and construction companies." 

British companies are amongst the biggest international creditors to Dubai, with state-controlled Royal Bank Of Scotland Group PLC (RBS.LN) and Lloyds Banking Group PLC (LLOY.LN) exposed to Dubai World. 

The emirate risks be bracketed with an emerging group of heavily indebted sovereign borrowers who may default including Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain, unless it addresses its vast debt that&apos;s estimated to exceed $80 billion. 

"Dubai has to be conscious of the fact that depending on how it resolves the current problems will mean a great deal for how it secures investment in the future. Dubai has to tread carefully, openly and not for too long. It has to reach an agreement that&apos;s demonstrably fair," Mandelson said. 

Earlier Sunday Zawya Dow Jones reported that Dubai World may offer creditors 60% of the money they&apos;re owed backed by the sheikdom&apos;s government as part of a deal to reschedule $22 billion of debt. The emirate also owes U.K. companies hundreds of millions of dollars for unpaid fees. 

British construction and engineering firms at one point last year were chasing about GBP400 million in unpaid fees from companies in the United Arab Emirates, mostly in Dubai, U.K. trade body the Association for Consultancy and Engineering. 

Mandelson&apos;s comments, the strongest so far by a U.K. political figure regarding Dubai&apos;s financial problems received a mixed reception from British business executives attending the lunch in the swank Emirates Towers hotel. 

"He was trying to sit on the fence and tiptoe around the issue," said James Hume, partner at Omega Group Services. "There&apos;s nothing the U.K. can preach to Dubai." 

The U.K. economy is struggling itself and grew for the first time in 18 months in the fourth quarter, albeit by an anemic 0.1%. Data last Thursday showed U.K. home repossessions fell sharply in the fourth quarter, although they hit a 14-year high in 2009. 

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100214-702672.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines


----------



## 234sale

Andrew Flintoff and his family have set up home in Dubai

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/celebritytravel/7221016/Andrew-Flintoffs-Dubai.html



> So now we're living here. We started off in the Marina, the world's largest man-made marina, up by the Palm. We loved it, but it was a bit of a trek to the childrens' schools, 30 minutes or more inland. So we moved to Festival City, which is reasonably close.


See you at festival city M&S on friday matey...

P.S I'm a Flintoff doppelganger


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ How did he get a VISA?


----------



## Imre

gerald.d said:


> Here's the big news that everyone's been waiting for...
> http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...-in-almost-3-weeks-on-dubai-world-report.html
> 
> Supposedly...
> 
> 60% cash in 7 years time, guaranteed by the government; or
> 60% cash, 40% Nakheel assets, over a period of 7 years, not guaranteed.
> 
> Nice one!



*No debt offer: Dubai World*

Conglomerate says it has not put forth any official proposal to lenders

Dubai: Dubai World has not put forth an official proposal to the lenders of $26 billion worth of debt, a source close to the matter told Gulf News on Sunday.

A media report said Sunday that two offers may be put on the table. One offers 60 per cent repayment after seven years, in a plan that may come with a sovereign guarantee but does not pay interest, Zawya Dow Jones quoted two anonymous bankers.

The second offer may see creditors get full payment, including 40 per cent of their Dubai World debt, in the form of assets in Nakheel, with no government guarantee over seven years, according to the bankers.

"Neither the government nor the company have put forward any restructuring proposals to the lenders at this time," a government spokeswoman said in a statement yesterday.

"The government is continuing to fund the expenses of the company's and the lenders' legal and financial advisers so that they have the appropriate amount of time to understand the company and its business plans so that any future proposals can be rationally analysed."

http://gulfnews.com/business/general/no-debt-offer-dubai-world-1.583238


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ How did he get a VISA?


Dubai Festival City is not freehold so they can just rent there , maybe a trip to Oman every month

Probably he has set up a company or someone employed him.


----------



## 234sale

^^ I 'll ask him at the weekend.


----------



## True Blue

Likely he is a Sports Ambassador and will get an appropriate visa so long as he does his job and supports the region through positive press and media.


----------



## paul66

Well he did a good job promoting Dubai....especially on the Telegraph! who normally only bashes Dubai!


----------



## True Blue

"The British government will stand by the emirate because "we believe in Dubai, admire it and believe in its future", Mandelson said in a speech in Dubai yesterday. "*We want to be part of the upturn*" once Dubai recovers, he said."

Sounds like British banks just about own all Dubai's assets and as we, the British taxpayer, own the banks then we must own Dubai:lol:

Unlimited stay visas for all UK citizens is on the cards:colgate:


----------



## Ramin777

Oman has already started issuance two-year residency visas to home owners at "The Wave" project.
When does UAE learn?


----------



## Akasha

What is this new registration fee for? I received a letter from Sports City today saying that all apartment owners have to pay a 2,000 Dhs Off plan property registration fee to RERA. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't this already been paid?

I already checked with the RERA and the land department when I went down to query some things, and they confirmed the property is already registered with them. So what is this for?

Getting very annoyed now.


----------



## amplesou

i have just recieved this as swell !
I have allready paid 2% of my apartment price for land registration ?
£2500 pounds and they want us to pay again !:bash:


----------



## Hanna

*The big next question in Dubai - Layoff at Limitless and Nakheel*

Dubai World property developers have undergone a new round of lay-offs, as chief restructuring advisor Aiden Birkett cuts the companies down to size and reduces costs.

Limitless has laid off about 20 per cent, or 55, of its staff. It currently has 220 employees, according to former staff. The company had about 500 staff at its peak.

"Limitless has reorganised and streamlined its operations as part of its ongoing strategy to reduce costs while continuing to maximise productivity," a spokeswoman said. "Regrettably, this has impacted jobs."

A Nakheel spokesperson said the company "continues to readjust its current business objectives and the resources to match as part of the restructuring process". The company has previously let go of more than 1,000 people. It had 3,500 people at its peak.

The fate of these two property developers is the next big question in Dubai. They owe billions of dirhams in debt to banks and contractors. And they have giant, unfinished projects that need new capital to ever be complete. Nakheel's Palm Jebel Ali - which is even larger than the finished Palm Jumeirah - comes to mind.

As does the Arabian Canal, which was a planned 75km waterway through the desert outside Dubai. A short visit to the site this weekend found it completely abandoned, although the company did impressively dig several kilometres of it. (Check out the original multimedia package The National did on the canal here.) More pictures of the current state of the canal here. 

Some analysts believe they will be merged together after selling off some assets to become a new Dubai developer with a new brand. Others believe that at least one of them will simply be liquidated. Another optimistic camp believes they will be restructured and continue operating. Either way, there are major changes afoot.


----------



## Imre

234sale said:


> ^^ I 'll ask him at the weekend.


Please give him and his family my greetings!

If you just say , Imre from the Skyscrapercity he will know what you are talking about 

:cheers:


----------



## Akasha

amplesou said:


> i have just recieved this as swell !
> I have allready paid 2% of my apartment price for land registration ?
> £2500 pounds and they want us to pay again !:bash:


Yep, I'm really beginning to wonder. So needless to say they got a very snotty email response telling them where to shove it and they're getting nothing more from me until they finish the thing!


----------



## Monument

Ramin777 said:


> Oman has already started issuance two-year residency visas to home owners at "The Wave" project.
> When does UAE learn?


Oman shares a border with the Yemen. It "needs" to do this.


----------



## Imre

*UAE real estate to see greater corporatisation *

Corporations are set to start playing a greater role in the UAE's real estate market, says a property consultant.

"Companies and corporate entities dominate real estate around the world – except here," Blair Hagkull, Managing Director of Jones Lang LaSalle (JLL) Mena, told Emirates Business. "We have families, or just individuals, owning properties. But moving forward, we see greater corporatisation of real estate."

Individuals have accounted for the majority of transactions in Dubai's realty market since the freehold property law was announced in 2002. A recent report indicated that Indian and British individuals topped the list of property investors in Dubai last year. But Hagkull expects 2010 to be the "year of commercial performance".

"What happened in 2009 was that we had a lot of residential supply coming on to the market," he added. "At the same time, we had reductions in demand and pricing. In 2010, we are seeing a lot more commercial supply coming on to the market and certainly we are witnessing a reduction in pricing in outlying areas."

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...2162010_29dc0d9f9d454fe1ade532ec2a059186.aspx


----------



## DEC VICTIM

Hi fellow DEC Victims,

I own a 2BHK unit in Lawns V which I booked in 2006 after paying about 15% of the property value. After a few letters last year asking for more payment I have had no correspondence with DEC for the last 4-5 months. I checked the RERA site and it shows the project is on hold-based on the thread it seems that there might be some legal recourse to it and you are gathering members. 
I would be more than willing to join any legal action that any fellow member is planning & I know another Lawns investor who can join as well. How can we go about it? 

cheers


----------



## Akasha

I called them this morning askign what this is for and the fee we paid before is for land/title deed registration. But I said yes annnnnd so it's already registered why are we paying again? - no valid answer.

Plus delivery is now September + and when we we informed of this little gem?

Totally fed up with the whole thing.


----------



## Jondubai

According to me the Ogood is for the developers benefit and makes things easier for them, i feel they are just trying to extract as much money as possible from us. What happens if we dont pay it? What are the repercussions? Are they gonna cancel our contract? :lol: :nuts: :lol:


----------



## social

Monument said:


> Oman shares a border with the Yemen. It "needs" to do this.


I'm sorry but that is just an ignorant comment hno:

Oman is rightly regarded as a very peaceful and idyllic country and never mind the fact that Muscat is over 1000 ks from the Yemeni border


----------



## True Blue

Tenant woes.

After agreeing a rollover of contract with my first tenant I am now seeing the other side of the market with my other tenant in Dorrabay. The guy has been a pain from day 1 and ripped me off for rent right at the start of the tenancy. He also insisted in a part refund and free weeks due to the apartment not being habitable (Etisalat had not yet connected the building) I was advised to try and reach a settlement as he was threatening to take me to the Dubai courts, even though he was unlikely to win, he knew it would cost me money and grief.

Now he is nearing the end of his contract and he did not serve notice or renegotiate his rent at the 90day point described in the contract. He says he wants to stay on but will not sign a rent contract as his job situation is not stable. He is proposing a monthly cheque and offering way less than the market rate claiming the market has gone through the floor, landlords should take it or leave it, if I don't take his shit offer someone else will.

Now I am reminded why some landlords want to meet with prospective tenants first or advertise Europeans only!

Anyone looking for a prime 2 bed in the marina available at sensible rates, available end of March can pm me. Europeans only need apply


----------



## Mission is back

True Blue said:


> Tenant woes.
> 
> After agreeing a rollover of contract with my first tenant I am now seeing the other side of the market with my other tenant in Dorrabay. The guy has been a pain from day 1 and ripped me off for rent right at the start of the tenancy. He also insisted in a part refund and free weeks due to the apartment not being habitable (Etisalat had not yet connected the building) I was advised to try and reach a settlement as he was threatening to take me to the Dubai courts, even though he was unlikely to win, he knew it would cost me money and grief.
> 
> Now he is nearing the end of his contract and he did not serve notice or renegotiate his rent at the 90day point described in the contract. He says he wants to stay on but will not sign a rent contract as his job situation is not stable. He is proposing a monthly cheque and offering way less than the market rate claiming the market has gone through the floor, landlords should take it or leave it, if I don't take his shit offer someone else will.
> 
> Now I am reminded why some landlords want to meet with prospective tenants first or advertise Europeans only!
> 
> Anyone looking for a prime 2 bed in the marina available at sensible rates, available end of March can pm me. Europeans only need apply


Tell him to [email protected] off. I had a tenant for 2 years now adn she has been a dream. What can you get for a 1bedmarina apartment these days


----------



## True Blue

Mission is back said:


> Tell him to [email protected] off. I had a tenant for 2 years now adn she has been a dream. What can you get for a 1bedmarina apartment these days


I got around 120k end of January for my 1 bed in Jewels fully furnished. This guy was offering 8k per month for my prime view 2 bed with no contract and he could dissappear at any time or default and wait to see how long it takes me to turn up in Dubai to throw him out.

Some people are good negotiators and others are insulting. Listing 120 2 beds for rent in the marina and using the cheapest one is unreasonable. Even trying to point out to him that these rates are for annual contracts and not monthly without contract is like banging your head off a wall. Better homes ask an average of 16k per month for a 2 bed in the marina without a contract. Guess he will be moving to Sharja soon, I hope.


----------



## jeetha

Mission is back said:


> Tell him to [email protected] off.


Yes! I agree. Let it be someone else’s nightmare.


----------



## Mission is back

True Blue said:


> I got around 120k end of January for my 1 bed in Jewels fully furnished. This guy was offering 8k per month for my prime view 2 bed with no contract and he could dissappear at any time or default and wait to see how long it takes me to turn up in Dubai to throw him out.
> 
> Some people are good negotiators and others are insulting. Listing 120 2 beds for rent in the marina and using the cheapest one is unreasonable. Even trying to point out to him that these rates are for annual contracts and not monthly without contract is like banging your head off a wall. Better homes ask an average of 16k per month for a 2 bed in the marina without a contract. Guess he will be moving to Sharja soon, I hope.


Some landlords would take no contract as they are financed upto the hilt and need a tenant asap. This man is playing on you.

I would not go to Better homes anymore as they are starting to charge landlords for there service. 

I have a tenant in Timeplace who 1st year got 95k, second year got 68k now her term ends in May and wants to stay another year. However, i am refusing to reduce it any further. I am going to call her bluff this year and see what happens. My 1bed in timeplace is 703sq and i think 68k inc air con is a bloody good deal


----------



## High Times

True Blue said:


> Now I am reminded why some landlords want to meet with prospective tenants first or advertise *Europeans only*!


Where is your tennent from ?


----------



## True Blue

Pakistan. I am sure there a many nice respectable people from there but he is very difficult.


----------



## Akasha

Well this is the response I got:

This payment is different from the land department registration fee, this is for Land departments online property management system which is responsible for managing customer and property details. The system is called Oqood and all customers across dubai for off plan properties have to pay this fee. the land department registry certificate you will receive only on completion of the property.
----------

Great so beiing asked to pay them 2,000 Dhs to input details? Hahaha yeah right - jog on!


----------



## Mistermark

True Blue said:


> Pakistan. I am sure there a many nice respectable people from there but he is very difficult.


Bin him. Give him notice, if necessary get a couple of big guys to escort him off the premises and change the locks. His 'offer' is an insult and he isn't following the contract.

As for replacing him, I don't think he's a bad tenant because he's from Pakistan. He's a bad tenant because he's an a***hole. So the best solution is to advertise for a new tenant, any race, religion or nationality, but 'a***holes need not apply'.


----------



## mackie1964

Mission is back said:


> Some landlords would take no contract as they are financed upto the hilt and need a tenant asap. This man is playing on you.
> 
> I would not go to Better homes anymore as they are starting to charge landlords for there service.
> 
> I have a tenant in Timeplace who 1st year got 95k, second year got *68k now* her term ends in May and wants to stay another year. However, i am refusing to reduce it any further. I am going to call her bluff this year and see what happens. My 1bed in timeplace is 703sq and i think 68k inc air con is a bloody good deal


So you are the one bringing the price down in Timeplace! This is too low buddy comparing with mine in there:bash:


----------



## Mission is back

mackie1964 said:


> So you are the one bringing the price down in Timeplace! This is too low buddy comparing with mine in there:bash:


Sorry mate.

I will push it for 75k inc air con this year.


----------



## AltinD

True Blue said:


> Tenant woes ... Anyone looking for a prime 2 bed in the marina available at sensible rates, available end of March can pm me. *Europeans only *need apply





High Times said:


> Where is your tennent from ?


UK :shifty:


----------



## True Blue

2 examples of dealing with Asians.

Put my house up for sale, Irish couple offer me the price I want but can't commit to entry date as they have not sold their own house yet. Kuwaiti doctor offers £10k more than Irish couple and agrees to entry date. Missives concluded on my purchase as I now have a sale. Doctor has still not engaged solicitor to start missives. Plenty of pressure from estate agents with constant reasurances that he is good for the "cash". 1 month before move out and Doctor is now informing us that he needs a mortgage and is awaiting bank approval of his application. 2 weeks before my move out and Doctor phones agent wanting to reduce his offer by £30k. Agent informs Doctor that he will be sued for all losses and expenses of his timewasting and failure to complete the sale. He is advised that under Scots law his offer is binding with missives or not. Doctor concludes at agreed price with appologies for the missunderstanding.

Example 2, Keys for apartment received Feb 09. Visit to Dubai to market the property for rent, advised rental value 175-200k. Next day after going on the market receive an offer for 165k which I reject. 1 week later no other offers then get notified of a viewing. Tenant views with agent so I don't meet him. Agent asks what realisticaly is my bottom price is for 1 cheque, I ask for 165k but agent comes back with offer of 150k. Reluctantly I agree as I am flying out that night. I land in Amsterdam and find a text asking if I can accept 145k to which I reply no. I land in UK and receive a phone call from the agent telling me to accept 145k that the market is falling like a stone. I phone BH and Palma who concur that the market is falling so fast that it is better to take a tenant than wait. I accept. Tenant walks into the agents office with 3 cheques totaling 145k and wants to sign the rental contract for 130k, 10k security and 5k agents fee. Now claiming a missunderstanding of the price he was agreeing to. After 1 week I back down again as there is no other offers.

Once in the apartment and after 1 month he writes to me to claim 1 months free rent as the internet connection was not completed by Etisalat. More arguing and then threats of legal action from him. I agree to extend his lease a few weeks as a compromise but now have very bitter taste in my mouth about this thieving dishonest A??hole. Now we have the latest saga as he starts his shit all over again.

Business is business and I don't take it personal but I hate people constantly lying and cheating to screw you over. I feel it must be in their culture to behave like this or maybe it is a weakness of my culture as a Scotsman to be too trusting of peoples common decency. :dunno: Fact is 2 different people same tactics.

One thing for sure, I am learning.


----------



## noir-dresses

If you are generalizing on a specific type of people which Im sure you are, then Im the same. Once I see them, I just dont want to have anything to do with them. It's just a head ache dealing with them, and all there reason's not to pay up, and your rite, it is there fruitstand business culture.


----------



## skdubai

wow!


----------



## 234sale

Just take a non-refundable deposit subject to hold the unit on the basis of agreement fixed with your price. 

If your price isn't agreed, then deposit is yours.

Don't phone BH they have closed offices and the good staff left a year ago. Even Billy was sacked last week so Ryan's in charge :lol:

They now are the same as anyone else,,, useless...

Better put it with every agent and pay an extra 3% cash com from your side as a special bonus..


----------



## mackie1964

Americans do the exact same, especially this young lawyer (a tenant of mine), she is really nice but would fight to death for a few AEDs. Every AED is a prisoner :lol:



True Blue said:


> 2 examples of dealing with Asians.
> 
> Put my house up for sale, Irish couple offer me the price I want but can't commit to entry date as they have not sold their own house yet. Kuwaiti doctor offers £10k more than Irish couple and agrees to entry date. Missives concluded on my purchase as I now have a sale. Doctor has still not engaged solicitor to start missives. Plenty of pressure from estate agents with constant reasurances that he is good for the "cash". 1 month before move out and Doctor is now informing us that he needs a mortgage and is awaiting bank approval of his application. 2 weeks before my move out and Doctor phones agent wanting to reduce his offer by £30k. Agent informs Doctor that he will be sued for all losses and expenses of his timewasting and failure to complete the sale. He is advised that under Scots law his offer is binding with missives or not. Doctor concludes at agreed price with appologies for the missunderstanding.
> 
> Example 2, Keys for apartment received Feb 09. Visit to Dubai to market the property for rent, advised rental value 175-200k. Next day after going on the market receive an offer for 165k which I reject. 1 week later no other offers then get notified of a viewing. Tenant views with agent so I don't meet him. Agent asks what realisticaly is my bottom price is for 1 cheque, I ask for 165k but agent comes back with offer of 150k. Reluctantly I agree as I am flying out that night. I land in Amsterdam and find a text asking if I can accept 145k to which I reply no. I land in UK and receive a phone call from the agent telling me to accept 145k that the market is falling like a stone. I phone BH and Palma who concur that the market is falling so fast that it is better to take a tenant than wait. I accept. Tenant walks into the agents office with 3 cheques totaling 145k and wants to sign the rental contract for 130k, 10k security and 5k agents fee. Now claiming a missunderstanding of the price he was agreeing to. After 1 week I back down again as there is no other offers.
> 
> Once in the apartment and after 1 month he writes to me to claim 1 months free rent as the internet connection was not completed by Etisalat. More arguing and then threats of legal action from him. I agree to extend his lease a few weeks as a compromise but now have very bitter taste in my mouth about this thieving dishonest A??hole. Now we have the latest saga as he starts his shit all over again.
> 
> Business is business and I don't take it personal but I hate people constantly lying and cheating to screw you over. I feel it must be in their culture to behave like this or maybe it is a weakness of my culture as a Scotsman to be too trusting of peoples common decency. :dunno: Fact is 2 different people same tactics.
> 
> One thing for sure, I am learning.


----------



## lazy daisy

noir-dresses said:


> If you are generalizing on a specific type of people which Im sure you are, then Im the same. Once I see them, I just dont want to have anything to do with them. It's just a head ache dealing with them, and all there reason's not to pay up, and your rite, it is there fruitstand business culture.


I have to disagree. You guys are generalizing; in fact being racist.

Whats the fruit stand culture ? Who doesn't eat fruit ? hno:

Some of the most successful business are run by Pakistanis and in fact some of the largest real estate companies that have been pioneers in Dubai are run/owned by Pakistani nationals. I am engaged to a Pakistani that has done more for Dubai than any European.

Dont judge all by one rotten apple. I have had UK tenants who have been a right pain up the back but does that mean theyre all bad.hno:

Get a grip and make sensible comments if you can !


----------



## True Blue

lazy daisy said:


> I have to disagree. You guys are generalizing; in fact being racist.
> 
> Whats the fruit stand culture ? Who doesn't eat fruit ? hno:
> 
> Some of the most successful business are run by Pakistanis and in fact some of the largest real estate companies that have been pioneers in Dubai are run/owned by Pakistani nationals. *I am engaged to a Pakistani that has done more for Dubai than any European.*
> 
> Dont judge all by one rotten apple. I have had UK tenants who have been a right pain up the back but does that mean theyre all bad.hno:
> 
> Get a grip and make sensible comments if you can !


^^What! He has lent them tens of billions of dollarshno:

I am not generalising but only speaking from bad experience. Hopefully by the laws of average I will have a good experience soon

Having said that our court system in the UK is full of Honour killing trials. If they can do that to their own families, do you think they give a shit about doing Brits for a few thousand bucks?

Take care


----------



## Dubai_Steve

234sale said:


> Don't phone BH they have closed offices and the good staff left a year ago. Even Billy was sacked last week so Ryan's in charge :lol:.


What are some of the best agents to sell with these days in general?


----------



## glover

though this is a true statement, it is misleading!! Eurpean banks (mostly british) who lent dubai have branches operation the UAE and their local deposits, i read somewhere, exceed by far the amount of loans to dubai. its kind of recycling the money back into the local markets, but these banks screwed up big time in their due diligence when they lent money to Nakheel and the like.



True Blue said:


> ^^What! He has lent them tens of billions of dollarshno:


----------



## 234sale

Dubai_Steve said:


> What are some of the best agents to sell with these days in general?


Left the market to enjoy the spoils of sucess...

Those who remain are trapped.


----------



## 234sale

glover said:


> though this is a true statement, it is misleading!! Eurpean banks (mostly british) who lent dubai have branches operation the UAE and their local deposits, i read somewhere, exceed by far the amount of loans to dubai. its kind of recycling the money back into the local markets, but these banks screwed up big time in their due diligence when they lent money to Nakheel and the like.


HT posted a while back, April was the deadline for Dubai. Whtat he omitted was if the bond isnt repayed. Rbs is exposed significantly. Hence mandy here last week. 

The debt issues globaly have been patched by QE, which now is being felt as inflation. 

But the debt blackhole is still getting bigger, nothing really has been fixed yet


----------



## jagmp

Dubai_Steve said:


> What are some of the best agents to sell with these days in general?[/QUOTE
> 
> From the personal experience i would say Landmark properties.May be the agents i am dealing with are excellent.The first one rented my marina properties twice without westing a single day.Before the tanent moves in he arranged for the deep cleaning the apt got small patch job done and also checked all the bills are paid by the tanent.he refunded deposite of the first tanent from the second ones payment.
> 
> Another agent from the same company rented my second apt and now sold it while it is still rented.This one overlooked snagging and all the repairs work for my friend's apt.Once that was done she rented it for her.
> 
> Yet both the agents haven't charged us for any services.Landmark has done excellent job for us.I have never been to any other agent in Dubai.


----------



## jagmp

My developer is asking for all the original documents to be returned to them at the time of name transfer.My original contract final payment receipt service charge payment registration fees etc.Strictly speaking they belong to me and i have to keep them for my records.I need them for tax purpose as well.

Does anyone know if they have to be returned. I am in Dubai this weekend for the transfer.I need to know before that.


----------



## Imre

*Sulaiman al Fahim wanted over debt of Dh8m*

Last Updated: February 17. 2010 12:59AM UAE / February 16. 2010 8:59PM GMT DUBAI // *A court has issued an arrest warrant for Sulaiman al Fahim, the former public face of Hydra Properties *and host of the business-themed reality television show Hydra Executives, for failing to pay a debt of more than Dh8 million.

The warrant was issued last Thursday after a ruling against Mr al Fahim by the Dubai Property Court in January last year in connection with a property dispute.

An investor from Azerbaijan demanded to be repaid after a development by Mr al Fahim’s company, Al Buraq Development and Investment, failed to go ahead in Dubai, court documents show.

An arrest warrant has also been issued against Saqr Abdullah Mohammed, the owner of another Dubai company involved in the deal, Ghantoot Star General Trading.

The Dubai Property Court ordered Mr al Fahim, who is also the former owner of the English Premier League football club Portsmouth, to repay the Azerbaijani investor, identified as AM, a total of Dh8,634,836 (US$2.3m) – the original Dh8m he invested plus court and legal fees.

In its judgment, the court said a nine per cent daily penalty would be imposed from the date of the first court hearing until the date the sum was repaid. By that rule, it would mean that, up until today, Dh374,579,070 was owed.

Mr al Fahim, who is believed to be in Britain, faces only a local arrest warrant, not an international one. 

Sources close to the investigation said an Interpol red notice had not been filed. It would be the likely next step for the UAE authorities should they want Mr al Fahim extradited. Mr al Fahim would be arrested if he were to re-enter the UAE or any UAE embassy or government building.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100217/NATIONAL/702169823/1133


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> ^^What! He has lent them tens of billions of dollarshno:
> 
> I am not generalising but only speaking from bad experience. Hopefully by the laws of average I will have a good experience soon
> 
> Having said that our court system in the UK is full of Honour killing trials. If they can do that to their own families, do you think they give a shit about doing Brits for a few thousand bucks?
> 
> Take care


Not to mention westerner's more or less did all the brain work behind the iconic project's that put Dubai on the map like Burj Khalifa, Palms, The World, Burj Al Arab, etc, etc.

I would be confident to say Tim Clark is the brain's behind Emirates Airlines, and it's success which generates 25 percent of Dubai's income at the moment.


----------



## jagmp

Dubai being taxfree country people don't realise the tax implications in UK.My developer says you will not own property anymore so you don't need to have any record of it.:bash::bash:My agent says the property is in Dubai why should you pay tax in UK?:bash::bash:

They don't know the tax office can ask the record of not only last six years but if the irregularities are found they can open up 20 years record. And tax office don't accept photo copies.I need the proof of original purchase price and the day it was bought in the form of contract.Why would they need contract they do have their own copy.

I am sure some people have sold the completed properties.If they can throw some light how they dealt with the situation.:cheers:


----------



## cayman1

From the personal experience i would say Landmark properties.May be the agents i am dealing with are excellent.The first one rented my marina properties twice without westing a single day.Before the tanent moves in he arranged for the deep cleaning the apt got small patch job done and also checked all the bills are paid by the tanent.he refunded deposite of the first tanent from the second ones payment.

Anybody knows Sezen Real Estate ? And is good agency ?


----------



## glover

there is a story in the National yesterday which indicates there might be a resolution in the works! Also, news reports are saying Dubai is gearing up toward selling non-core assets.

Again, Dubai is really being secretive here and non-transparent, which only makes the situation worse. Financial markets get spooked when they are in the dark, and Dubai government is not helping here!

-----------------

*Dubai World changes tack on debt*

Wayne Arnold and Uta Harnischfeger

* Last Updated: February 16. 2010 11:19PM UAE / February 16. 2010 7:19PM GMT
The National

Dubai World is hopeful it can win a deal from creditors to restructure as much as US$22 billion (Dh80.81bn) of debt without necessarily formalising a standstill deal.

As dozens of accountants sift through Dubai World’s financial records in a race to determine how best to restructure its debts, the company appears to be pursuing a new strategy to make sure it can win a deal from creditors before facing any major repayment demands, according to sources close to the company and its banks.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100216/BUSINESS/702169948/1138



234sale said:


> HT posted a while back, April was the deadline for Dubai. Whtat he omitted was if the bond isnt repayed. Rbs is exposed significantly. Hence mandy here last week.
> 
> The debt issues globaly have been patched by QE, which now is being felt as inflation.
> 
> But the debt blackhole is still getting bigger, nothing really has been fixed yet


----------



## lazy daisy

True Blue said:


> ^^
> 
> Having said that our court system in the UK is full of Honour killing trials. If they can do that to their own families, do you think they give a shit about doing Brits for a few thousand bucks?
> 
> Take care


:lol::lol:Well honour is a trait not well known with Brits ? Is it ?

Sex in public places....ring any bells. Now does that mean all Brits do the same ?? The UK courts are full of all sorts of cases. Just like the UAE courts being full of unacceptable acts by foreigners.

Its obvious you have had a bad expereince but you need to venge your personal feelings elsewhere. This the wrong place.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

South Korea's Samsung Engineering has said it has shut its office in Dubai and shifted its focus on Abu Dhabi, MEED has reported. 'Our Dubai offices has been closed and we are focusing more on Abu Dhabi as we see more growth coming from that emirate,' a company spokeswoman told the magazine. Most of the staff and resources which were based in Dubai have now been moved to Samsung's Abu Dhabi office, she said.

http://www.ameinfo.com/224305.html


----------



## True Blue

jagmp said:


> My developer is asking for all the original documents to be returned to them at the time of name transfer.My original contract final payment receipt service charge payment registration fees etc.Strictly speaking they belong to me and i have to keep them for my records.I need them for tax purpose as well.
> 
> Does anyone know if they have to be returned. I am in Dubai this weekend for the transfer.I need to know before that.


I have had this request in the past and refused to do it. The developer has an original copy and can therefore make certified copies for land department etc. 

I think Developers know they have not met their obligations in every case but due to the boom times people did not pay much attention to it. Now things are different and developers are affraid of precedents being set that could expose them. Best collect in the originals so there is no evidence of the agreement, naughty!


----------



## True Blue

lazy daisy said:


> :lol::lol:Well honour is a trait not well known with Brits ? Is it ?
> 
> Sex in public places....ring any bells. Now does that mean all Brits do the same ?? The UK courts are full of all sorts of cases. Just like the UAE courts being full of unacceptable acts by foreigners.
> 
> Its obvious you have had a bad expereince but you need to venge your personal feelings elsewhere. This the wrong place.


You have helped me to prove my point. Our cultures are worlds apart.

To compare sex on the beach with brutal beating and burning to death of young asian women, is quite repulsive to my mind.

Please be carefull what you wish for.


----------



## shagdash

^^

Yes I agree, "sex on the beach" and "burning women to death" are not comparable.
But there is enough racism and hatred in the world without bringing it to this forum too.
Why can't everyone just agree to disagree and live by the rule of the land in which they currently are.

Back to topic - is AED 820 a good per square foot rate for a villa in Emirates Living area?


----------



## Spurs

shagdash said:


> ^^
> 
> Yes I agree, "sex on the beach" and "burning women to death" are not comparable.
> But there is enough racism and hatred in the world without bringing it to this forum too.
> Why can't everyone just agree to disagree and live by the rule of the land in which they currently are.
> 
> Back to topic - is AED 820 a good per square foot rate for a villa in Emirates Living area?


Which area in Emirates Living?


----------



## shagdash

^^

Lakes


----------



## glover

agree. funny how this began with a bad tenant, but ended up with honor killing!!!


shagdash said:


> ^^
> 
> Yes I agree, "sex on the beach" and "burning women to death" are not comparable.
> But there is enough racism and hatred in the world without bringing it to this forum too.


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai_Steve said:


> South Korea's Samsung Engineering has said it has shut its office in Dubai and shifted its focus on Abu Dhabi, MEED has reported. 'Our Dubai offices has been closed and we are focusing more on Abu Dhabi as we see more growth coming from that emirate,' a company spokeswoman told the magazine. Most of the staff and resources which were based in Dubai have now been moved to Samsung's Abu Dhabi office, she said.
> 
> http://www.ameinfo.com/224305.html


I know of at least couple of good UK based companies that are being paid on time (30 days invoices) one of them is looking at infrastructure & town planning, including major leisure facilities but its all ideas at the moment 



shagdash said:


> ^^
> 
> Yes I agree, "sex on the beach" and "burning women to death" are not comparable.
> But there is enough racism and hatred in the world without bringing it to this forum too.
> Why can't everyone just agree to disagree and live by the rule of the land in which they currently are.
> 
> Back to topic - is AED 820 a good per square foot rate for a villa in Emirates Living area?


Yes, I agree. Those bloody tight fisted Scots should stop being racist. And before you start on me, my wife is Scottish too :lol::banana:


----------



## lazy daisy

True Blue said:


> Our cultures are worlds apart.
> 
> .


Yes absolutely. Honour & self respect is not within all nations.

I wonder is your tenant really the culprit you say. Maybe you have the problems within yourself. 

I dont think anyone on here can help with your tenant problems except offer some consolation.

Best of luck anyway.


----------



## shagdash

mackie1964 said:


> Those bloody tight fisted Scotts should stop being racist. And before you start on me, my wife is Scottish too :lol::banana:


Ah! but women Scottish or not, are born tightfisted!


----------



## mackie1964

shagdash said:


> Ah! but women Scottish or not, are born tightfisted!


A scottish soldier in full dress marches into a pharmacy to speak to the chemist.
He opens his sporran and pulls out a neatly folded cotton handkerchief and unfolds it to reveal a smaller silk square which he also unfolds to reveal a condom.
The condom has a number of patches on it .He holds it up and eyes it critically.
''So how much to repair it ?'' he asks the pharmacist .''six pence says the pharmacist .
How much for a new one ?''Ten pence says the pharmacist.
The Scot folds the condom into the silk square and the cotton handkerchief and marches out the door of the pharmacy .
a moment or two later the pharmacist hears a great shout go up .followed by an even bigger roar .
The Scottish soldier walks in and says :'' The regiment has taken a vote ...we'll have a new one. :lol::banana:


----------



## True Blue

I appologise if any of my comments appeared racist. In future I shall not blame the culture instead I shall blame the parents.

And I will inform my wife to be more liberal with her purse


----------



## 234sale

Entrepreneur faces £30m tax demand after residency ruling leaves thousands exposed

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article7029806.ece



> The Court of Appeal ruled that Robert Gaines-Cooper was liable to pay UK tax despite spending less than 91 days a year in the country because England had remained “the centre of gravity of his life and interests”.



So now every investor will pull his remaining assets and go completely Non-Dom..... Gordon not so great Idea, no. 93837372233


Also


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=awg_6cu8ABhY&pos=1



> U.K. jobless claims unexpectedly jumped in January to the highest level since Tony Blair led the ruling Labour Party to power almost 13 years ago as the recession destroyed work at businesses from carmakers to banks.
> 
> The number of people receiving unemployment benefits rose by 23,500 from the previous month to 1.64 million


----------



## jagmp

True Blue said:


> I have had this request in the past and refused to do it. The developer has an original copy and can therefore make certified copies for land department etc.
> 
> Thanks True Blue
> 
> It has become a real nightmare to convince the developer to issue a document as a proof that i purchased the property from them at so and so price on so and so date in 2005 in exchange of the contract.They said i have to follow the law of the land and they are not interested in the laws of UK. Yet they are dealing with all the foreign nationals.I am surprised no one in the forum has faced the similar situation.
> 
> There is total lack of basic consideration and co operation.These people have no understanding of tax system.They said i have made no profit so i don't pay tax.and i don't need any records.:bash:
> 
> I can only argue so much.I had to prepare my husband to accompany me at the last moment to bang the head with them.I thought it was going to be a simple transfer.hno:


----------



## beer51

True Blue

You need to look at the way you conduct your business with your tenant. It doesn't matter where the tenant comes from, colour of their skin, culture or background sometime you need to be firm and diplomatic.......business is business. Put this down to experience and learn from your mistake.


----------



## cayman1

Who knows is Dubai will return like 2008 ?


----------



## carpetking

When you have a good property in Germany like 800 sqft you will get
800 Euro per month = 9600 Euro per year ! this is 50K Dhs.per year

i would say the world is OK in Dubai !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## docc

shagdash said:


> ^^
> 
> Yes I agree, "sex on the beach" and "burning women to death" are not comparable.
> But there is enough racism and hatred in the world without bringing it to this forum too.
> Why can't everyone just agree to disagree and live by the rule of the land in which they currently are.
> 
> Back to topic - is AED 820 a good per square foot rate for a villa in Emirates Living area?


Very good price for a property in the Lakes which IMO is far better than Meadows. Normally, the low price per Sft is for larger villa's like the Hattan's which are simply stunning.

Is that what you were referring to as well?


----------



## bizzybonita

Safa Foundation to own and manage properties, funds in Dubai

Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the Ruler of Dubai, has established Safa Foundation, to own and manage properties and funds assigned to it by the government.

Being a part of its business model, the foundation will take up ownership and manage all funds and properties, including fixed and liquid assets, which could be further invested at the discretion of the foundation.

Dubai is the second largest sheikhdom in the seven member federation of the UAE.


----------



## Imre

*High service charges hit rental yields *

February 18, 2010 

Service charges for some properties in Dubai range between 18 per cent and 48 per cent of annual rents, according to a recent report by Investment Boutique (iB). Further, falling rents coupled with high service charges are contributing to lower rental yields for an investor in Dubai.

Real estate analysts also said that developers in Dubai were not necessarily following the service charges set out by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera). "We don't see all the developers abiding by the service charges set out by Rera. For example, the rate for luxury-serviced apartments should be around Dh50 per square foot yet some luxury projects in Downtown Dubai are charging Dh63 per square foot," said Mohanad Alwadiya, Managing Director, Harbor Real Estate.

Meanwhile, iB in its latest fourth-quarter report – Market Pulse – said developers of some properties in Dubai continue to charge high service fees despite the Rera regulating service charges in the emirate.

*"A 1,000 square feet one-bedroom unit in Discovery Gardens at Dh24 per square foot amounted to service charges of around Dh24,000. Current average rents are Dh52,300, which means that service charges constitute an exorbitant 46 per cent of rents*. What this does to an investor's rental yield is but obvious," said Heather Wipperman Amiji, CEO, Investment Boutique.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...2182010_b3590d13178346679b184bb16cf72e1b.aspx


----------



## Hanna

*Dynasty Zarooni Executives charged with defrauding 25 Million*

Gulf News obtained a copy of the arraignment sheet, in which K.M. was charged with offering the businessmen to multiply their money through a bogus investment portfolio. Records said the Indian told the businessmen to provide a monthly payment of Dh300,000 to be invested in real estate projects offering a monthly revenue of Dh1 million starting from the seventh month. KM allegedly got the claimants trust the feasibility of the portfolio by advertising in newspapers and the internet.
The Public Prosecution also charged M.H.Z. and R.Q. with aiding and abetting K.M. by confirming his claims, the act which allegedly resulted in cheating the claimants.

Real estate fraud

Gulf News also learnt that prosecutors dismissed the charges of real estate fraud, worth hundreds of millions of dirhams, against the suspects for lack of crime.Al Sha'ali appealed the dismissal of the real estate fraud charge. 
An appeals judge is looking into this plea."The jury is only responsible for prosecuting the suspects on the charges of swindling and establishing a bogus investment portfolio ... I will not accept any real estate fraud case or complaint," concluded Presiding Judge Abdul Majid, who adjourned the case until March 10.According to the charges sheet, K.M. told prosecutors that he bought the properties, which the businessmen described as bogus and non-existent, from developers and he was authorised to sell them. He presented contracts and documents to prove that he was authorised to do so.
Dynasty Zarouni's chairman claimed in his statement to prosecutors: "Due to the global financial crisis, some of the businessmen's cheques bounced and when he presented the bad cheques to the police, they complained against him."


----------



## shagdash

docc said:


> Very good price for a property in the Lakes which IMO is far better than Meadows. Normally, the low price per Sft is for larger villa's like the Hattan's which are simply stunning.
> 
> Is that what you were referring to as well?


I agree the Hattans are stunning. However, I was referring to the smaller townhouses.


----------



## Mission is back

Hi all

Some advice please:

Just spoke to my tenant about renewal first year 95k second year 68k, Now i have just looked on Dubizzle and apartments are going in the marina for 60k in Marina Diamond same size as mine. Now what should i do... 

Is 60k okay for 1bedroom in Timeplace at 703sq?

Comments would be appreciated. 

Also this year i will have to include A/C in the rent as its part of the maintenance fees now.

Spoke to Bhomes and they are just a pile of shit


----------



## shagdash

^^

Landmark advertising 3 bed villas in Springs for 115k (am assuming Type 3's). Mirdiff 3 bed villas advertised on dubizzle for 80-85k.
I know these aren't relevant examples for your particular situation - but am quoting these as I usually keep track of the market for 3 bed villas and apartments so have this data at my fingertips.
Rents dropping across board still and if you don't want the headache of trying to find a new tenant and perhaps not succeeding to your satisfaction, its better you keep this current one. Bird in hand better than two in bush.


----------



## docc

shagdash said:


> I agree the Hattans are stunning. However, I was referring to the smaller townhouses.


Ahhh okay. AED 820/Sft is still a good price for The Lakes IMO.


----------



## True Blue

Mission is back said:


> Hi all
> 
> Some advice please:
> 
> Just spoke to my tenant about renewal first year 95k second year 68k, Now i have just looked on Dubizzle and apartments are going in the marina for 60k in Marina Diamond same size as mine. Now what should i do...
> 
> Is 60k okay for 1bedroom in Timeplace at 703sq?
> 
> Comments would be appreciated.
> 
> Also this year i will have to include A/C in the rent as its part of the maintenance fees now.
> 
> Spoke to Bhomes and they are just a pile of shit


Does the building services manager not provide details of the a/c charges to allow you to bill the tenant? If not then around 4AED/ft is about the average cost for chilled water usage in the marina. I think it is difficult to call rents at the moment as tenants are becoming more discerning and are in short supply.

I just renewed my Jewels 1 bed in January at 120k net and have seen them advertised currently at average 95k now. Fortunately for me there were none advertised during negotiations. As mentioned very recently my tenant in the 2 bed 1400ft2 prime views Dorrabay unit offered me 8k per month with no annual contract. He has now been shown the door and agents are advising 120k should be achievable. That is 85AED/ft. That seems to be about the same figure for your unit so maybe that is what we are working to now:dunno:

BTW, Jewels 1 beds are average 1100ft so that works out to 93,500 using 85AED/ft unfurnished. Seems to be adding up!


----------



## BlueBath

*B2B Payment Reminder !!*



dubaimarina2008 said:


> *New law to offer investors protection*
> 
> New rules will cover grounds for cancellation, such as a developer’s refusal to link payments to construction milestones.
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...1252010_7c4b5d4708cd466b9fe2960e601edee7.aspx




After almost half a year....... once again received "Payment reminder" from K.M.Properties for B2B. I already paid 90% which started from 2006 ! As per revised unit size, price & SPA there are 5% payment due on 1st March'2010. The rest & final 5% upon completion. :wallbash:

*So far it,s clear that, this project is nowhere near to it,s original promise. :hammer:
*
*what would you DO...........if you fall in this situation ?........ Please give your opinions. kay:*


----------



## 234sale

Mission is back said:


> Spoke to Bhomes and they are just a pile of shit


Agencies I use

Hamptons - Commercial
Landmark - Residential
Asteco - Valuation / PM


----------



## cayman1

Don't pay , but go to a lawyer .


----------



## DXBQuantum

I have never had a good time with Hamptons - they were useless, for a company with the backing that they have I was very surprised. 

Haven't used Landmark before.

Asteco were ok, didn't use them out of choice, had to because of Zabeel Properties on Palm J.


----------



## Imre

Imre said:


> *Sulaiman al Fahim wanted over debt of Dh8m*
> 
> Last Updated: February 17. 2010 12:59AM UAE / February 16. 2010 8:59PM GMT DUBAI // *A court has issued an arrest warrant for Sulaiman al Fahim, the former public face of Hydra Properties *and host of the business-themed reality television show Hydra Executives, for failing to pay a debt of more than Dh8 million.
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100217/NATIONAL/702169823/1133


*Arrest warrant for al Fahim withdrawn*

Awad Mustafa and Charlie Hamilton

Last Updated: February 18. 2010 5:19PM UAE / February 18. 2010 1:19PM GMT DUBAI // An arrest warrant issued against Emirati business tycoon Sulaiman al Fahim last week was conditionally withdrawn yesterday, granting him a one-month grace period for payment until March 17.

The Chief Justice of the Dubai Property Court, Judge Abdel Qader Moosa, said: “Al Fahim has been granted a one month grace period after his legal representatives stated that he is out of the country.

“The arrest warrant has been nullified and he is asked to pay around Dh8 million,” he added. 

Last Thursday, the civil execution section issued an arrest warrant against Mr al Fahim after he failed to respond to a court order issued in January last year demanding he repay Dh8,634,836.

A property case was filed against Mr al Fahim in 2008 by an investor, who Mr. al Fahim says is Russian, who purchased two floors in a tower being developed by al Fahim’s Al Buraq Development and Investment at Business Bay in Dubai. 

The plaintiff, identified as AM, and listed as Azerbaijani in court documents, purchased floors 12 and 14 in the *Sky Tower development*, which was never built. The value of the purchase was Dh23,102,343 and contracts were signed in June 2006.

AM paid Dh8,025,568 to Mr al Fahim’s company. Mr al Fahim denies receiving any of the money.

*The Sky Tower should have been completed by the end of 2008, but one year in to the project, the investor, who Mr. al Fahim says is Russian, realised no work had started and decided to investigate.*

*A letter sent from Dubai Properties, who originally owned the land, claimed that the plot of land was advertised and sold on paper but was never initially handed to Al Buraq Development and Investment. Dubai Properties claimed Al Buraq Development and Investment were not granted the specific plot where the tower was supposed to be due to their non compliance with the terms of agreements between them and Dubai Properties. The plaintiff then contacted Mr al Fahim and al Buraq but to no avail.*

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100218/NATIONAL/100212786/1133


----------



## Imre

They want 95 % payment for this??

Must be a joke


----------



## TerryPop

234sale said:


> ^^
> 
> How long before JLT no longer a freezone, commercial market swamped with office space.


Its getting painful..... more and mor hitting the market now. help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:fiddle:


----------



## BlueBath

*B2B*



cayman1 said:


> Don't pay , but go to a lawyer .


@ Cayman 1..................this payment plan was accepted & written in SPA. What,s the benefit to go to any lawyer as alone ? what will happen of my 90% which i already paid ?..........Loose my 90% confidence on K.M.Properties....I'm in a big dilemma..............:nuts:






Imre said:


> They want 95 % payment for this??
> 
> Must be a joke


@Imre.........this is the joke of the decade...... but how to protect this sort of jokers when they keep joking with many of us .............:banned:


----------



## iownyou

Quote:
Originally Posted by 234sale 


How long before JLT no longer a freezone, commercial market swamped with office space. 

Its getting painful..... more and mor hitting the market now. help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


what would happen if jlt would not be a frezone then what would it become? and what would be the difference? sorry i dont understand please can someone explain? and what is jlt now? freehold?


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> BTW, Jewels 1 beds are average 1100ft so that works out to 93,500 using 85AED/ft unfurnished. Seems to be adding up!


Sounds about right.


----------



## cayman1

The payment must linked to construction progress , i have another tower but final contract is linked to constr. No progress no $. Phone at lawyer is better.


----------



## bizzybonita

Imre said:


> *High service charges hit rental yields *
> 
> February 18, 2010
> 
> Service charges for some properties in Dubai range between 18 per cent and 48 per cent of annual rents, according to a recent report by Investment Boutique (iB). Further, falling rents coupled with high service charges are contributing to lower rental yields for an investor in Dubai.
> 
> Real estate analysts also said that developers in Dubai were not necessarily following the service charges set out by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera). "We don't see all the developers abiding by the service charges set out by Rera. For example, the rate for luxury-serviced apartments should be around Dh50 per square foot yet some luxury projects in Downtown Dubai are charging Dh63 per square foot," said Mohanad Alwadiya, Managing Director, Harbor Real Estate.
> 
> Meanwhile, iB in its latest fourth-quarter report – Market Pulse – said developers of some properties in Dubai continue to charge high service fees despite the Rera regulating service charges in the emirate.
> 
> *"A 1,000 square feet one-bedroom unit in Discovery Gardens at Dh24 per square foot amounted to service charges of around Dh24,000. Current average rents are Dh52,300, which means that service charges constitute an exorbitant 46 per cent of rents*. What this does to an investor's rental yield is but obvious," said Heather Wipperman Amiji, CEO, Investment Boutique.
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...2182010_b3590d13178346679b184bb16cf72e1b.aspx


This is other kind of crisis what's happen Nakheel ! :lol:


----------



## bizzybonita

Quality dictates office rents on Sheikh Zayed Road 

on Thursday, February 18, 2010

Office rents on Sheikh Zayed Road vary considerably depending on the location and status of the buildings. It starts as low as Dh75 per square feet on some stretches of the road and goes upto Dh375 a sq ft or Dh400 per sq ft, according to officials.

The primary factors that determine rentals are location and status of buildings, whether shell-and-core or fitted-out, and other facilities such as parking space, grace periods, distance to connector roads, etc, say officials.

"[The highest slab] Dh375 is only in DIFC. Apart from that the rental range is between Dh75 and Dh290 per sq ft," Porush Jhunjhunwala, Head Commercial Leasing at Better Homes told Emirates Business.

The cheapest rents are for offices, which come with a bare structure. "It's Dh75 a sq ft after Mall of Emirates along the SZR for a shell-and-core office. Between Trade Centre Roundabout and Defence Roundabout the rental is between Dh110 and Dh180 per sq ft except the Emirates Tower at Dh290 per sq ft.

"Between the first and third interchanges the rentals are in the range of Dh100 to Dh140 per sq ft. The rental totally depends on the condition of the building, access to the buildings, sizes, status of the office – ie. whether shell-and-core or fitted out, parking, etc," said Jhunjhunwala.

Agrees Jesse Downs, Director of Research and Advisory Services, Landmark Advisory. "The higher end of the office rental range is for new, high-grade buildings usually located in the SZR corridor between the Trade Center and the first interchange (Defense Roundabout). Excluding DIFC, the upper limit is closer to Dh250 per sq ft. The lower limit of the rental range is generally associated with older buildings on SZR between the first and fourth interchanges (Mall of the Emirates)," she added.

According to Brett Whalley, Head of Corporate Services, Asteco Property Management, offices are available on SZR and the first and second roundabouts from Dh150 to Dh230 per sq ft, depending on the fit-out and inclusive of service charges and car parks. The highest values are in the vicinity of Emirates Towers and the first roundabout, whereas, in DIFC, asking rents are between Dh325 and Dh400 per sq ft.

The primary factors that determine commercial rents are location and quality.

According to Downs of Landmark Advisory, "Location, building grade, quality of the individual unit, unit status [shell/core versus fit-outs], vacancy rate in the building, parking allocations and any applicable rent concessions [are important factors]. Rent concessions include free fit-out, grace periods/rent-free periods, and long lease periods, which give firms control of their operating expenditure."

Since the downturn, quality has become a prime factor in determining rents, said Whalley. "Last year we saw tenants turn more picky. It is a 'flight to quality' of which location is important. Tenants request fitted-out offices. The staff want to be close to shops. Walking distance to Metro stations is playing a part as is easy car access to SZR and connector roads to Abu Dhabi," he said.

Jhunjhunwala said buildings such as Emirates Tower, Park Place, Capricorn, etc command the highest rental on SZR. The occupancy levels in these buildings are high (more than 90-95 per cent) and the facilities are good.

http://business24-7.ae/Articles/2010/2/Pages/17022010/02182010_a49c6a815b004465853cae1699eaaf17.aspx


----------



## peacesells

iownyou said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by 234sale
> 
> 
> How long before JLT no longer a freezone, commercial market swamped with office space.
> 
> Its getting painful..... more and mor hitting the market now. help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> what would happen if jlt would not be a frezone then what would it become? and what would be the difference? sorry i dont understand please can someone explain? and what is jlt now? freehold?


Welp, the good news is that JLT and DMCC are splitting into two freezones (in one area) with JLT accepting applications for all sorts of businesses except for industrial and general trading. I know this because I was helping a friend open a company just a few weeks ago and he managed to get a license for aviation-related entity from JLT. The bad news is that this is still in early stages and they have no guidelines or have not done any advertising / promotion about this. 

So just wait, it is happening.


----------



## iownyou

peacesells said:


> Welp, the good news is that JLT and DMCC are splitting into two freezones (in one area) with JLT accepting applications for all sorts of businesses except for industrial and general trading. I know this because I was helping a friend open a company just a few weeks ago and he managed to get a license for aviation-related entity from JLT. The bad news is that this is still in early stages and they have no guidelines or have not done any advertising / promotion about this.
> 
> So just wait, it is happening.


ohh great news thanks


----------



## dubaimarina2008

“We also advise them to group together with other investors; then they can have more leverage and the developer loses the argument that they’re a delinquent investor and everyone else is paying. They become a more noticeable force.”

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs...ONALFINANCE/701299879&SearchID=73382316494715


----------



## Goss

Slightly off track but I have been told we cannot sponsor our maid on the new 6 month investor visas that we now have to get (replacing the old 12 month one).Can anyone shed any light on this?
Basically they are saying that we cannot employ anybody for our villa if we do not work in Dubai ??


----------



## top seed

Hi guys,
Does any one have any new news from lawns projects?
Please let me know if u decide to do any legal action against them then definitely i will join you. Please let me know if you find any other solutions.
tanx


----------



## 234sale

Goss, have you got a Visa?


----------



## mackie1964

£22 billion in aid mooted for Greece 

Not only Dubai that has a big brother :lol:

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/20022010/325/22-billion-aid-mooted-greece-report.html

Greece is also unofficially a tax free country. Nobody I know (and I know a lot of Greeks) pay tax as they should :lol: They just wait and pay the fines, which is nothing in most cases :lol: Happy days :cheers:


----------



## GreenKiwi

Goss yes I think that is right as I think the 6 mth visa is just en extended visit visa. You may need to get a virtual freezone company or some other method!! I am on an old style 3 year Nakheel visa and just extended our maids visa for another year last week but that old investor visa was a full residents visa. Good luck.


----------



## mackie1964

*JLT*

Has anyone on here started a company in JLT recently? Can you please share your experience? :cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

Imre said:


> Prices going up
> 
> Dubai Marina, Silverene, Studio
> AED 7,150,000
> 
> Dubai Marina, Silverene, Studio, 607 sq.ft., Marina View, Ready in Dec. 2010. AED 7,150,000.
> 
> http://www.gnads4u.com/doc.html?_a=view&id=7001388&t=properties


what about maintance fees ? :lol:


----------



## Jondubai

So has anyone paid the 2000 AED that the builders have demanded for? Any new updates on that? Im assuming we will have the handover around the new year as things always get delayed... but im happy and positive its eventually happening. The more projects get completed at DSC the more confidence everyone will have about DSC as a whole :banana:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Price spreads for Dubai Marina apartments are likely to tighten further this year, with the current average gap between the first and fourth quartiles at Dh400 per square foot, according to a real estate consultancy.

"Prices have fallen, liquidity has dropped, less financing is available and high-end properties are suffering. However, what is interesting is the fact that the spread between different quartiles of property is tightening. The market seems to be focusing on value rather than differentiation; though some differentiation is no doubt taking place," Sukhdev Hansra, Partner, Isthmus Partner, said in a report focused on Dubai Marina. 

Spreads are now as tight as they have ever been in the past three years, with an average gap of Dh400 per square foot between the first and fourth quartiles. Much of the tightening has been precipitated by a falling top quartile. 

"It does not seem like high-end properties are reaching the bottom just yet, but as with all property there has to be a price at which value is recognised.

"It is unlikely this tightening can continue for much longer. Therefore, either the prices of lower quartile properties will follow suit and start to fall more or we can expect to see differentiation increasingly taking precedence in the market leading to spreads widening again," Hansra added.

In the boom times, the attractiveness of what were perceived as very high-end apartments created a large spread between quartile one and quartile four properties. As the market has become more discerning, this spread has diminished, which is "counter intuitive". 

In most markets there is a "flight to quality" in poor economic environments, but here it seems value has become the watchword of the market leading a collapse at the high end. The increasing number of areas providing luxury apartments, such as The Palm, Burj Khalifa, etc, has also added to the reduction of prices at the luxury end of the Marina market. 

"With most additional supply expected to cater for luxury apartments, we can expect tightening to continue, until pressure is felt at the lower end, possibly reducing prices for all real estate," the report said.

Moreover, market share of apartments with price less than Dh1 million grew from 25.9 per cent to 39.5 per cent between third quarter 2008 and fourth quarter 2009.

"The most liquid sector of the market was at the lower nominal price range. Though the proportion of apartments sold with a value of less than Dh1m dropped to as low as 25.7 per cent at the peak of the market, this segment now represents significantly more of the Dubai Marina market at close to 40 per cent," Hansra added. Transactions of more than Dh2 million represented more than 50 per cent of total sales in third quarter 2008, while only 25.8 per cent of sales in fourth quarter 2009. 

According to the UAE-based consultancy, quartile one properties on average are now below 2007 prices, while quartile three and four properties are still above 2007 levels.

On average, investors still need to pay 43 per cent more to enter the market at the lower end than at the beginning of 2007.

Isthmus said quartile one properties were at their lowest point over the past three years. The number of bedrooms has little effect on price per square foot. "We can see three bedroom apartments had the most volatile pricing followed by one and two beds.

Two and three-bedroom apartments are the only sectors that are favourably priced compared to 2007 prices. Five plus bedroom apartments have seen relatively little volatility. 

"We can see that the lower volatility in five plus bedroom apartments led to relatively little price appreciation over the period. The curve representing three-bedroom apartments peaked highest followed by studios after a lag.

However, for the most part all apartments followed a similar pattern and there is no discernable spread between apartment types," said the report.

In terms of liquidity, Isthmus said one and two-bedroom apartments lead the way in sales. It also sees that liquidity has dried up with 2009 sales representing 61.7 per cent and 69 per cent of 2008 and 2007 transactions, respectively, on a macro level. 

However, the weighted average loan-to-value (LTV) levels moved up to 78 per cent on average. The LTVs are weighted by the purchase price of each property. Certainly in boom times, higher LTVs were available. More recently it looks like weighted average LTV is fluctuating between 68 per cent and 73 per cent. 

Liquidity in the number of mortgages has also fallen. The number of mortgages issued rose to a peak of 4.7 times the number of mortgages issued in second quarter 2007. 

After finding relative similar values of apartments at the beginning of 2007, Isthmus said financing fuelled purchases of more expensive apartments. Credit was relatively easy to obtain in 2007 and early 2008, but since then, as financing has dried up, spread between financed and non-financed apartments has tightened. 

"It is evident that some of the mortgages completed at the peak of the market are under water; that is the mortgage is worth less than the collateral," the report on Dubai Marina said.

According to Isthmus, it will be interesting to see how mortgages are handled in the market. If the buyers are still in possession of their apartments, it is unlikely they would wish to sell, as that would trigger a payment to the mortgage bank for the differential between the outstanding financed amount and the proceeds of a sale.

"This cash outlay maybe difficult for many apartment owners," said Hansra. 

The quartile

Isthmus divided homogenous clusters of buildings into four quartiles for each quarter of the years from 2007 to 2009.

The first quartile represents the top one-fourth clusters by price per square foot and the fourth quartile representing the bottom one-fourth clusters.

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles...2222010_013e95e1921a424898c94c52fcb65125.aspx


----------



## V Kapoor

Imre said:


> Prices going up
> 
> Dubai Marina, Silverene, Studio
> AED 7,150,000
> 
> Dubai Marina, Silverene, Studio, 607 sq.ft., Marina View, Ready in Dec. 2010. AED 7,150,000.


A STUDIO for 7 million AED???!
Whats in it!?


----------



## DXBQuantum

gold plated poo


----------



## amplesou

Jondubai said:


> So has anyone paid the 2000 AED that the builders have demanded for? Any new updates on that? Im assuming we will have the handover around the new year as things always get delayed... but im happy and positive its eventually happening. The more projects get completed at DSC the more confidence everyone will have about DSC as a whole :banana:


no !
sent them a e-mail which they have,nt responded yet and probaly won,t ?


----------



## mackie1964

How much can one expect to pay per sqft for a fully fitted-out space in JLT, Any ideas? :cheers:



TerryPop said:


> Thanks alot 234, what do yo think low cost option for floors and ceilings would be fitted?
> 
> I have seen office carpetting on the net at a fw dollars a square foot and ceiling tiles about the same.
> 
> Someone told me 30 aed psf for a basic fitout is a bit high but prob what to expect.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> I am thinking of the JBC towers here, where all major works are done like AC units, bathrooms and kitchenettes, lights etc.


----------



## Sportsman

Consider yourself lucky, I just paid 5000 drm for oqood from another DSC developer. Having thought it was too high for such a fee, I called Rera and the land's dept and the lady confirmed it was a 5000 drm charge for each unit ! :cheers:


----------



## Wigger68

I also got the letter and have held off paying. I don't want to jeopardise anything but while others refuse to pay I will also. Happy to pay if they ever get closer to delivering on their promises...


----------



## lovedubai

V Kapoor said:


> A STUDIO for 7 million AED???!
> Whats in it!?


 A0 t0y0p0i0n0g0 e0r0r0o0r!


----------



## Mission is back

mackie1964 said:


> How much can one expect to pay per sqft for a fully fitted-out space in JLT, Any ideas? :cheers:


Are you moving your dodgey companies to Dubai?


----------



## Mission is back

Location Dubai , United Arab Emirates 
Development Le Reve, Dubai Marina 
Type Penthouse 
Bedrooms 6 
Bathrooms 8 (6 ensuite) 
Built up area 13,400 sq.ft. 
Pool Community pool 
Status Ready property for sale 
Views Property facing northwest with skyline and marina views 
Other Furnished, maids room, study room, storage room, games room, terrace, dry pantry, office kitchen, marble flooring, built-in wardrobes, windows floor to ceiling, jacuzzi, 3 parking spaces, steam room and sauna. 


Anyone want to go halves with me?


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Tempting, but community pool? Nah. Too common for my taste.


----------



## AltinD

^^ I think he was asking about sharing the jacuzzi, steam room and the sauna. :runaway:


----------



## True Blue

600 residents of the Torch staring in your windows doesn't appeal to me so I'm out!


----------



## Imre

*Europeans invest AED 60 million in ‘Oceana’ lifestyle *

*British, Russian, French, Dutch and Belgian investors splash out AED 60 million in January – Europeans looking for family-focused luxury lifestyle says Asteco*




















Europeans from Britain, Russia, Holland and Belgium, have invested up to AED 60 million in January, as sales of apartments at the luxurious Oceana Residence, averaged almost one per day during the first month of 2010.

“We have had a very busy January,” said Ian Hollingdale, Head of Project for leading property management company Asteco. ”Currently year-to-date we are averaging almost one sale per day.” 

According to Hollingdale, “Almost half of the investors are British, Russians account for around 25% of our sales, with the French, Dutch and Belgians making up the bulk of the rest.”

The fully-furnished show homes were only opened to the public late last year, to promote the sale of the final one two and three bedroom apartments in an exclusive gated community on The Palm Jumeirah.

“A trend we have noticed is the shift in the motivation of the buyers. Prior to the downturn, many sales were made to investors who were primarily using their purchase as an investment vehicle,” said Hollingdale.

“Now investors are also end-users, buying into a family-focused resort lifestyle. Of course some owners will rent out their apartments when they are not in use, but the buyers’ sentiment has changed and by modifying our marketing strategy, we have successfully managed to appeal to that profile,” he added.

The Oceana Residence apartments, developed by independent United Arab Emirates holding company Seven Tides, are competitively priced from between AED1.8 million for a 1,237 square feet one-bedroom apartment and AED3.7 million for a three-bedroom 2,239 square feet apartment.

Rental demand is also exceptionally strong for the resort apartments. “We actually have a waiting list. Owners wishing to rent their properties will find no shortage of tenants, with prices starting from AED 160,000 for one bedroom apartments up to AED 230,000 for a three bedroom apartment,” said Hollingdale.

More info here:

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/02/europeans-invest-aed-60-million-in.html


----------



## mackie1964

Russians? Without the prospect of a visa! They have also gone quite on the 6 months visa! :dunno:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

rental prices dropping fast in the marina.

eg.

Dorrabay 1 bed fully furnished 4 cheques for 70k http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-for-rent/apartmentflat/2010/2/6/1br-flat-for-rent-flexible-terms/


----------



## Mission is back

Imre said:


> *Europeans invest AED 60 million in ‘Oceana’ lifestyle *
> 
> *British, Russian, French, Dutch and Belgian investors splash out AED 60 million in January – Europeans looking for family-focused luxury lifestyle says Asteco*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europeans from Britain, Russia, Holland and Belgium, have invested up to AED 60 million in January, as sales of apartments at the luxurious Oceana Residence, averaged almost one per day during the first month of 2010.
> 
> “We have had a very busy January,” said Ian Hollingdale, Head of Project for leading property management company Asteco. ”Currently year-to-date we are averaging almost one sale per day.”
> 
> According to Hollingdale, “Almost half of the investors are British, Russians account for around 25% of our sales, with the French, Dutch and Belgians making up the bulk of the rest.”
> 
> The fully-furnished show homes were only opened to the public late last year, to promote the sale of the final one two and three bedroom apartments in an exclusive gated community on The Palm Jumeirah.
> 
> “A trend we have noticed is the shift in the motivation of the buyers. Prior to the downturn, many sales were made to investors who were primarily using their purchase as an investment vehicle,” said Hollingdale.
> 
> “Now investors are also end-users, buying into a family-focused resort lifestyle. Of course some owners will rent out their apartments when they are not in use, but the buyers’ sentiment has changed and by modifying our marketing strategy, we have successfully managed to appeal to that profile,” he added.
> 
> The Oceana Residence apartments, developed by independent United Arab Emirates holding company Seven Tides, are competitively priced from between AED1.8 million for a 1,237 square feet one-bedroom apartment and AED3.7 million for a three-bedroom 2,239 square feet apartment.
> 
> Rental demand is also exceptionally strong for the resort apartments. “We actually have a waiting list. Owners wishing to rent their properties will find no shortage of tenants, with prices starting from AED 160,000 for one bedroom apartments up to AED 230,000 for a three bedroom apartment,” said Hollingdale.
> 
> More info here:
> 
> http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/02/europeans-invest-aed-60-million-in.html


High end users again... We need more mid end users


----------



## True Blue

^^Oceana is a quality development but nothing to do around there. Still need a taxi to the Walk


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> rental prices dropping fast in the marina.
> 
> eg.
> 
> Dorrabay 1 bed fully furnished 4 cheques for 70k http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-for-rent/apartmentflat/2010/2/6/1br-flat-for-rent-flexible-terms/


It's OK they have bounced back up again!:laugh:

Small 1 bed 84k;
http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...2010/2/22/dorrabay-1-bedroom-fully-furnished/

Not much on offer in Dorrabay, *only 4 hits *on the rental section of Dubizzle in a 200 unit building:banana: Well positioned for a quick exit to Abu Dhabi.kay:


----------



## Ingi

*Rental process*

So i might have found a prospective tenant for my flat and just realised i don't have a clear picture of the rental process. I have found the tenant directly so no agency is involved. My questions: 
- from the time we verbally agree and the actual
signing of the contract, should he make a deposit to book the flat or not?
-i understand the leasing contract is available in the typing shops? What do we do with it after both parties sign it? Do i take it to rera?
- what docs r required from the tenant?
- what docs do i have to produce? Is it safe to give out copy of title dead?
- should i/can i ask for a security deposit? Is it common?
- as the appt comes equipped ,who pays for fixing of the appliances if they stop working?
Any answer will be really appreciatedthanks


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai:*Dubai's real estate prices have nearly bottomed out and should start to recover, but probably not until at least next year, the head of one of the emirate's most prominent property developers said yesterday.
Prices in the UAE dropped by half in less than a year from their peak in late 2008 as overseas buyers, many of them speculators relying on easy credit, fled the market.
The unexpectedly steep plunge led to widespread job cuts and deprived many local developers the cash they needed to pay the bills and cover debts racked up in a torrid building boom.
Deyaar Development Co, Dubai's second-biggest listed developer, was among those hurt by the downturn.
CEO Markus Giebel told reporters yesterday that while he does not expect a dramatic recovery in Dubai's property market, prices are unlikely to fall significantly further.
"Dubai has reached a bottom phase," Giebel said. "I cannot tell you if it goes 5 per cent up or down. But I'm very certain it will not go 20 or 30 per cent up or down in the next year."
Giebel said he expects prices will fluctuate in a narrow range before possibly starting to recover in 2011.

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/dubai-property-prices-near-bottom-and-set-to-recover-1.587163


----------



## Porcello

Ingi said:


> So i might have found a prospective tenant for my flat and just realised i don't have a clear picture of the rental process. I have found the tenant directly so no agency is involved. My questions:
> - from the time we verbally agree and the actual
> signing of the contract, should he make a deposit to book the flat or not?


Yes, ask the security deposit amount, typically 5% of yearly rent or one month rent.


> -i understand the leasing contract is available in the typing shops? What do we do with it after both parties sign it? Do i take it to rera?


Yes, you keep your copy and give the other to the tenant, and no need to take it to anybody else.


> - what docs r required from the tenant?


Copy of passport and cheques


> - what docs do i have to produce? Is it safe to give out copy of title dead?


Copy of passport, tenancy contract, receipt for security deposit and copy of title deed or first pages of SPA (needed by the tenant for utilities connection)


> - should i/can i ask for a security deposit? Is it common?


Yes, 5% of yearly rent or one month rent. Can be more if fully furnished.


> - as the appt comes equipped ,who pays for fixing of the appliances if they stop working?


Tenant and landlord responsibility on damages is stated on the standard tenancy agreement. It's a bit ambiguous, though... as a gesture of goodwill and incentive for good tenants the landlord may take care of appliances. Up to you.


----------



## 234sale

I would take more than 5% if you can, think if they wreck the place and you need to get a pro-company into fix it.

Also you can fix the contract for specifically 1 year, rather than having it automatically renewable.

Under Islamic law, what ever you agree on in writing, is what you must follow.


----------



## 234sale

Pain for the UK...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-a-barrel-on-French-strike-Iran-tensions.html
Oil over $80

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/feb/19/pound-dollar-retail-sales-figures
Sterling fell about half a US cent to $1.5345 this morning – its weakest since May 2009

prediction, Petrol £1.50, fuel protest around the date of the general election...


----------



## Ingi

Porcello said:


> Yes, ask the security deposit amount, typically 5% of yearly rent or one month rent.
> 
> Yes, you keep your copy and give the other to the tenant, and no need to take it to anybody else.
> 
> Copy of passport and cheques
> 
> Copy of passport, tenancy contract, receipt for security deposit and copy of title deed or first pages of SPA (needed by the tenant for utilities connection)
> 
> Yes, 5% of yearly rent or one month rent. Can be more if fully furnished.
> 
> Tenant and landlord responsibility on damages is stated on the standard tenancy agreement. It's a bit ambiguous, though... as a gesture of goodwill and incentive for good tenants the landlord may take care of appliances. Up to you.


Thank you for the great reply! 

So the security deposit he pays to book the property will be kept and used as a deposit against damages,unpaid bills etc?? Do I just give him a receipt until we sign the lease agreement? What happens if he changes his mind and wants the deposit back ?How can i protect myself? I will have nothing signed that says i can keep the deposit as he made me lose time and other possible tenants?

234sale:
The flat is fully furnished so 5% of the annual rent will definitely not cover too much damages , but i do not want to push it to much either. On the other hand you are right.. they can destroy everything and then I will be crying  .. I always assume people will treat the house the same way I do which is completely wrong


----------



## kevin_1980in

Andr said:


> :cheers1: even i pay transfer


lol


----------



## skdubai

Btw.. are banks actually lending at all right now?? suppose i want to put a down payment of 30% on an apartment and get the rest as loan, is this possible now?


----------



## DXBQuantum

Porcello said:


> Yes, ask the security deposit amount, typically 5% of yearly rent or one month rent.
> 
> Yes, you keep your copy and give the other to the tenant, and no need to take it to anybody else.
> 
> Copy of passport and cheques
> 
> Copy of passport, tenancy contract, receipt for security deposit and copy of title deed or first pages of SPA (needed by the tenant for utilities connection)
> 
> Yes, 5% of yearly rent or one month rent. Can be more if fully furnished.
> 
> Tenant and landlord responsibility on damages is stated on the standard tenancy agreement. It's a bit ambiguous, though... as a gesture of goodwill and incentive for good tenants the landlord may take care of appliances. Up to you.



You do need to take it to RERA and register it with Ejari...


----------



## Ingi

DXBQuantum said:


> You do need to take it to RERA and register it with Ejari...


So i do have to register it with Rera?? Will they accept the forms we get from the typing shops? And.. as I know nothing is free in Dubai, what are the charges of registering the contract with them?


----------



## Porcello

Ingi said:


> Thank you for the great reply!
> 
> So the security deposit he pays to book the property will be kept and used as a deposit against damages,unpaid bills etc?? Do I just give him a receipt until we sign the lease agreement? What happens if he changes his mind and wants the deposit back ?How can i protect myself? I will have nothing signed that says i can keep the deposit as he made me lose time and other possible tenants?
> 
> 234sale:
> The flat is fully furnished so 5% of the annual rent will definitely not cover too much damages , but i do not want to push it to much either. On the other hand you are right.. they can destroy everything and then I will be crying  .. I always assume people will treat the house the same way I do which is completely wrong


Just state on the booking deposit receipt that the amount is not refundable in case the tenancy contract is not signed by the tenant; two copies, you keep one. If the contract is signed, the booking deposit will be used as security deposit and returned at the end of the tenancy period as long as the unit is in sound conditions excluding normal wear and tear.

I'd like also to reinstate that there is no formal obligation to register the contract anywhere (no penalties if you don't do it).


----------



## Ingi

Porcello said:


> Just state on the booking deposit receipt that the amount is not refundable in case the tenancy contract is not signed by the tenant; two copies, you keep one. If the contract is signed, the booking deposit will be used as security deposit and returned at the end of the tenancy period as long as the unit is in sound conditions excluding normal wear and tear.
> 
> I'd like also to reinstate that there is no formal obligation to register the contract anywhere (no penalties if you don't do it).


I was just reading on the RERA's website that if the leasing agreement is not registered we cannot bring any dispute in front of the Rental Committee.. is that applicable already or it is a rule that did not come into place yet?


----------



## DXBQuantum

type in Ejari to google it will explain it all...

i think you can do it online and its 100 aed


----------



## mackie1964

An of the shelf contract is not adequate in my view to protect the landlord. It must be supplemented by a few qualifications / observation (on the back of the contract or on a separate page, signed and witnessed) along the following lines:

OBSERVATION CONTINUED:

The terms below are part of the tenancy agreement:

1. A security deposit of AED ??? is held by the Landlord.
2. Validity of the contract is subject to clearance of payments.
3. Three months notice in writing should be given to the Landlord by the Tenant, if the Tenant wishes to vacate on the expiry of the lease.
4. Major maintenance of common areas is the responsibility of the Landlord.
5. Service Charges of common areas are the responsibility of the Landlord.
6. The Tenant agrees to comply by with community rules and regulations.
7. The Tenant shall be responsible for the insurance of his/her personal belongings and contents during the period of tenancy.
8. The Property is to be used for residential purposes only.
9. The Tenant undertakes to immediately notify the Landlord in the event of flood or any other incident involving the property or upon discovery of any damage or fault in the property requiring repair or attention. The Tenant will be responsible for payment of any repairs and damage to the property caused by it’s occupant’s negligence during the time of the occupancy.
10. The Tenant agrees to return the property in their original condition at the end of the tenancy. Prior to the release of the security deposit a property inspection will be carried out by the Landlord. The cost of repairs or damage deemed to be the responsibility of the Tenant and/or as a direct result of the Tenants occupancy shall be deducted from the security deposit.
11. At the time of vacating the property, the Tenant shall produce the original final DEWA bill in order for the return of the security deposit.
12. In the case of any minor maintenance issues, the Tenant will liaise directly with the building management team and in case of any major issues, the Tenant must inform the Landlord and allow him a reasonable period to deal with the issues.

And so on. 

Hope this helps


----------



## DXBQuantum

you should always add an addendum to the UAE contract - as its very vague if you dont.

PM me and I can give you a copy of one that I use for mine.


----------



## Ingi

*Tenancy Agreement*

typed in the pm on the forum by mistake


----------



## Ingi

DXBQuantum said:


> you should always add an addendum to the UAE contract - as its very vague if you dont.
> 
> PM me and I can give you a copy of one that I use for mine.


Thank you. I sent you a PM. I really appreciate it!


----------



## natoush

Lawns V update from DEC...at last
I got this last week...after months of calls and emails.

"Further to your email , would like to infomr you that the project is going on , we are awaiting certain approvals froom relevant authorities to start the sub structure of the building.
Kindly find the attached RERA approved payment plan for your reference.
In regards to refund would like to inform you that all the refund requests have to come through dubai courts."

10 % reservation 
15 % SPA ready for signatures
5% commencment of work on site
5% Completion of shoring and excavation
5% completion of raft foundation
10% completion 1st basement
10% completion of ground floor slab
10% completion of 2nd floor slab
10% completion of 4th floor slab
20% completion

BTW, the agent claimed on the phone that they have completed shoring and excavation


----------



## HateTorch

Ingi said:


> --- snip ---
> Any answer will be really appreciatedthanks


Besides the above, I also have the following clauses ::
Never to sublet
Fixtures mounting (eg drilling holes) must have prior approval from landlord


----------



## Imre

*Executive leaves ailing Dubai developer Nakheel *


DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) -- Embattled Dubai developer Nakheel says a senior executive has left the company, in the latest high-profile departure from struggling state conglomerate Dubai World.

*A Nakheel spokeswoman confirmed the departure of Chief Commercial Officer Manal Shaheen but would not provide details.*

The spokeswoman, who refused to be identified in line with company policy, declined to discuss Nakheel's ongoing job cuts or staffing levels. She said in an e-mail Tuesday that the developer "continues to readjust its current business objectives and the resources to match."

Nakheel is the developer behind Dubai's numerous manmade islands. It's one of the firms at the heart of parent Dubai World's debt problems.

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/RSS/...ailing-Dubai-developer-Nakheel--/Default.aspx


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## Philippa C

For anyone renting out a unit on the Palm you should add to the contract that "the PDC conumption and capacity charges will be borne by the tenant". If you don't and we did not know better, the landlord pays the monthly capacity charges however much you try to argue with Palm Utilities that you don't need to specify in the contract that the du charges for rental of the line and calls are paid by the tenant!

Had an interesting chat with our tenant who is a Uk lawyer. He says there's a lot of work here for lawyers at the moment and he sees a great future for DIFC as a regional centre for dispute resolution. He also said that a great many senior professionals are moving here or to Switzerland as tax is crippling in the UK.


----------



## Ingi

HateTorch said:


> Besides the above, I also have the following clauses ::
> Never to sublet
> Fixtures mounting (eg drilling holes) must have prior approval from landlord


Thank you all for the great suggestions. I now have an addendum typed and ready to be signed


----------



## DXBQuantum

Good luck Ingi.


----------



## Hanna

*$140m Damac suit under way at DIFC courts*

A view of Park Towers. Damac has questioned the jurisdiction of DIFC courts to hear the case. (SUPPLIED) 

By Karen Remo-Listana on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 

Damac has allegedly used investments from cancelled property projects to fund the Park Towers, a twin-tower development located in Dubai International Financial Centre, the DIFC courts heard yesterday.

Lawyers representing a German investor, Dr Lothar Ludwig Hardt, said the developer allegedly used the money from other property projects to construct Park Towers, the only development that appears to be ongoing out of the five that Hardt had signed up in February 2007.

"These close links show the other four properties are connected to Park Towers… which should have been finished two years ago," Ludmila Yamalova, legal consultant and partner at Al Sayyah Advocates and Legal Consultants, told Emirates Business. She said Hardt has invested $9.7 million on five properties which, in addition to Park Towers include the two cancelled projects – Lotus Residences and Wildflower; Ocean Heights, which was scheduled for completion eight months ago; and Water's Edge, where construction hasn't been started yet.

The German investor is thus demanding refund of $9.7m and is seeking damages and lost profits caused by the developers' breach of contract and other violations of the UAE, Dubai and DIFC Courts. Yamalova estimates that damages, loss of profits plus all the legal fees could go up to $140m.

"As of today, defendants have not delivered any of the properties and have not complied with any of the contractual obligations to claimants," a claim form seen by Emirates Business said. 

"Defendants have committed a series of violations of UAE, Dubai and DIFC Laws in connection with properties such as enticement and unfairness, illegal sale, failure to obtain necessary approvals, failure to commence construction timely, failure to timely register developer and obtain necessary license, mismanagement of escrow funds and violation of trust account regulations, unfair contracts of adhesion, fraud and deception… illegal competition, bribery, trickery, breach of trust, cheating in commercial transactions, money laundering and accomplice liability," said the claim form.

Damac has not submitted a rebuttal on the substantive grounds and instead questioned the jurisdiction of the DIFC courts to hear the case. It has filed a motion to stop the lawsuit from being heard and has also moved to strike the case entirely on the basis of jurisdiction.

Law firm Simmons & Simmons argued that parties concerned have agreed in the contract that any disputes will be governed by Courts of Dubai and therefore Courts of Dubai has exclusive jurisdiction of the case.

Claimants argue that DIFC Courts is one of the Courts of Dubai but defendants say that Courts of Dubai only refers to the local Dubai Court. 

"We argue that DIFC courts has jurisdiction over all these properties because it has jurisdiction over Damac LLC and Damac Property LLC is the entity to whom all the payments to all the other projects were made," Yamalova said. "They use different names but they all own each other. Damac LLC is owned by Damac Investment and so on and so forth."

Damac has other cases pending in Dubai Courts but this is the first time that a case against it is lodged in DIFC courts.

"It's a complicated issue of jurisdiction. It is an untested waters. But I think we have a strong case," Yamalova said.

She said it is more favourable for the defendants to hear the case in Dubai Courts because of the time delaying factor. 

"There it'll take longer and we'll have to file five separate cases," she said. "In this case, we need to file 45 different cases and would have to pay Dh30,000 for each and would have to translate everything into English – so that's additional expense."


----------



## dubaiprojects

I went to took the hand over of icon2 JLT apartment from vakson and got the keys.
I unit is utterly in mess and am so much disappointed:

1. There is no electricity and i was told to followup and arrange for the connection ourselves.
2. seepage water in the walls and paint is peeling off
3. No water.

We have been told to create snag list but with all above, can we even begin to create snag list?

Is this normal? are we supposed to arrange for electricy connection?

I am in dubai for few days for hand over and how can i complete all this ?

Very bad experience indeed :-(

cheers


----------



## skdubai

well usually the DEWA connection is ur responsibility... AFAIK..


----------



## Philippa C

dubaiprojects said:


> I went to took the hand over of icon2 JLT apartment from vakson and got the keys.
> 1. There is no electricity and i was told to followup and arrange for the connection  ourselves.
> 2. seepage water in the walls and paint is peeling off
> 3. No water.
> 
> We have been told to create snag list but with all above, can we even begin to create snag list?
> 
> Is this normal? are we supposed to arrange for electricy connection?
> 
> When we have taken handover the dewa connection has been in place and the developer gives you the dewa number. You then go to the dewa office and get the account transferred into your name. Usually too an employee of the developer should go around the property with you and take note of all the snags you point out and arrange for them to be fixed by the contractor. There's usually a 12 month warranth period during which defects should be rectified free.
> 
> Sorry the units are in bad shape - you must be very disappointed. Vakson is a pretty well known company so you'd hope they'll sort things out. Try and speak to someone senior at the company.


----------



## Mission is back

Guys and girls.

I know i have posted this before either i am naive or i really dont know what the rental market in dubai is at the moment.

tenant rental:
1st year 95k
2nd year 68k
3rd year just offered 60k and i will cover the chiller fees, which are about 5k.

She has just rejected this and said she is moving out. My apartment is a 1bedroom in Timeplace and 703sq. Ami i asking for to much or is she just playing games? 

Opinions would be appreciated?
If you think this is to high please advise what would be a reasonable rental?


----------



## Imre

^^
Rental market is getting worst every day, probably she will move to Marina Diamonds, can get 1 b/r for 45-50K/year .


----------



## Mission is back

Imre said:


> ^^
> Rental market is getting worst every day, probably she will move to Marina Diamonds, can get 1 b/r for 45-50K/year .


She said she is going to JLT 2bedroom +maids room no chiller fees and going to pay 70k


----------



## Imre

Mission is back said:


> She said she is going to JLT 2bedroom +maids room no chiller fees and going to pay 70k


Icon Tower or Lake City?


----------



## True Blue

^^Sounds like she wants a change of scenery or she is stalking our resident snapper

I have heard of a people leaving the marina heading to places like Barsha for big apartments on half the price of a marina 1 bed. Also 3 bed villa in Mirdiff with pool 90k.


----------



## Mission is back

Imre said:


> Icon Tower or Lake City?


not sure


----------



## Mission is back

True Blue said:


> ^^Sounds like she wants a change of scenery or she is stalking our resident snapper
> 
> I have heard of a people leaving the marina heading to places like Barsha for big apartments on half the price of a marina 1 bed. Also 3 bed villa in Mirdiff with pool 90k.



I thought the marina is the place to live?.... 

What do you think is a resonable rent?


----------



## High Times

Mission is back said:


> She said she is going to JLT 2bedroom +maids room no chiller fees and going to pay 70k


*Property Upsizing.*

It is inevitable this would happen. I thought this would become more common place as the unwinding of the property bubble continues. 

IT WILL.

Proffessional people do not live in 700sqf studios/1 beds through choice, but through nessecity. As more and more empty units continue to enter the market over the next 2-4 years, with no new users being allowed into Dubai, property upsizing will continue.

It's always amazed me how a so called luxury development like Dubai Marina could consist of so many small housing units.

Absolute madness in the making.


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> ^^Sounds like she wants a change of scenery or she is stalking our resident snapper
> 
> I have heard of a people leaving the marina heading to places like Barsha for big apartments on half the price of a marina 1 bed. Also 3 bed villa in Mirdiff with pool 90k.


Also from the JLT ,I know someone in our tower, he rented a studio for 50K but now moved to the International City and got a studio for 23K only. He said the location is not good but at least he can save 2000 dhs/month.


----------



## Mission is back

Imre said:


> Also from the JLT ,I know someone in our tower, he rented a studio for 50K but now moved to the International City and got a studio for 23K only. He said the location is not good but at least he can save 2000 dhs/month.



But her company pays for her rent not out of her salary so i am not to sure of the logic. She travels a lot and is never in the apartment.


----------



## Imre

High Times said:


> Proffessional people do not live in 700sqf studios/1 beds through choice, but through nessecity.


The biggest question is how many professionals left in Dubai


----------



## Imre

Mission is back said:


> But her company pays for her rent not out of her salary so i am not to sure of the logic. She travels a lot and is never in the apartment.


Maybe she will rent out the second room and the maid room as well.

We dont know..


----------



## Mission is back

If that was the case she would of moved into a studio in International City not the marina. When the marina is finished the rents will go back up...


----------



## Mission is back

Imre said:


> Maybe she will rent out the second room and the maid room as well.
> 
> We dont know..


Maybe i should use the apartment myself for a couple of years and enojy it and stop worrying about tenants


----------



## Mission is back

anyone want to swap a torch apartment with a timeplace apartment


----------



## 234sale

Any one want's to swap my dollars 1:1 with pounds...


----------



## Mission is back

234sale said:


> Any one want's to swap my dollars 1:1 with pounds...



Its worth a shot ???????????????


----------



## 234sale

High Times said:


> *Property Upsizing.*
> 
> It's always amazed me how a so called luxury development like Dubai Marina could consist of so many small housing units.
> 
> Absolute madness in the making.


With the mess that is DM, I would rather live in JLT these days. At least you can get in, out and around without traffic.

Soon as La Reve is 200K for half a floor, I'm sold


----------



## Mission is back

234sale said:


> With the mess that is DM, I would rather live in JLT these days. At least you can get in, out and around without traffic.
> 
> Soon as La Reve is 200K for half a floor, I'm sold



When the marina is finished it will be the place to be .............


----------



## dubaiprojects

*hi*

I got offer of 45k for my icon 2 1 bed which will leave me with 30k rental per yr.
I am hoping some one will pay 60k ;-)
cheers


----------



## Mission is back

dubaiprojects said:


> I got offer of 45k for my icon 2 1 bed which will leave me with 30k rental per yr.
> I am hoping some one will pay 60k ;-)
> cheers


Where is ICON and how big is your sq?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Under the UAE’s current immigration rules, passport holders from Europe and the United States can enter without pre-arranging a visa.

But in the wake of last month’s assassination of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, which Dubai police allege was likely orchestrated by Israel’s Mossad intelligence agency and carried out by up to 18 people carrying passports from Britain, Ireland, France and Germany, Emirati officials have hinted that this may change.

UAE’s minister of state for foreign affairs Anwar Gargash said at the weekend that authorities there were “deeply concerned by the fact that passports of close allies, whose nationals currently enjoy preferential visa waivers, were illegally used to commit this crime”.

UAE foreign minister Sheikh Abdullah Bin Zayed al-Nahayan said the federation would continue to do everything to protect its long-held position as a hospitable country that provides stability and security for its citizens as well as the residents, visiting tourists and the thriving business community within the bounds of UAE law.”

In a telephone conversation with Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin last Friday, Sheikh Abdullah highlighted the possible consequences of the breach of passport security. He told Mr Martin there was increasing pressure within the *UAE to impose tighter visa conditions on EU visitors*.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0223/1224265034205.html


----------



## True Blue

Mission is back said:


> I thought the marina is the place to live?....
> 
> What do you think is a resonable rent?


I don't think that what you are asking is unreasonable, infact I think you will find a new tenant for 65k without much difficulty. 700ft is bigger than MD 1 beds.

As I said your tenant looks like she just wants a change.


----------



## jagmp

dubaiprojects said:


> I went to took the hand over of icon2 JLT apartment from vakson and got the keys.
> I unit is utterly in mess and am so much disappointed:
> 
> 1. There is no electricity and i was told to followup and arrange for the connection ourselves.
> 2. seepage water in the walls and paint is peeling off
> 3. No water.
> 
> We have been told to create snag list but with all above, can we even begin to create snag list?
> 
> Is this normal? are we supposed to arrange for electricy connection?
> 
> I am in dubai for few days for hand over and how can i complete all this ?
> 
> Very bad experience indeed :-(
> 
> cheers


Prepare a snag list and give it to the manager.My friend's apt was in worse condition and she wasn't even there.Landmark agent who rented her apt chased them up and all was done.

If you are renting you don't need to register with DIWA.Tanent will do it.I have never registred for any of my apt.

Join the Icon association.They are doing very good job.Meet Mr Ram Pillai in Icon 2.He is too good for Icon towers.If you want i can PM his tel no.


----------



## jagmp

I just returned from Dubai.I am glad i sold my apt.I will be making more profit than expected when i decided to sell.Infact due for capital gain tax as the profit will be more than personal CG allowance.Thanks to exchange rate.:banana:

I loved Dubai even more than before at this time of the year.JBR walk was fully packed and saw some fancy dress street dancing.Did not hire a car this time.Travelled by metro and feeder bus and throughly enjoyed the experience.Unfortunately Burj Khalifa was closed so we couldn't go to the top.


----------



## jagmp

700ft is bigger than MD 1 beds.

Only MD 1 2 and 3 have smaller one bedrooms.Mine is more than 700ft.MD 5 and 6 are much bigger and squared to give it more spacious feeling.


----------



## dubaiprojects

jagmp said:


> Prepare a snag list and give it to the manager.My friend's apt was in worse condition and she wasn't even there.Landmark agent who rented her apt chased them up and all was done.
> 
> If you are renting you don't need to register with DIWA.Tanent will do it.I have never registred for any of my apt.
> 
> Join the Icon association.They are doing very good job.Meet Mr Ram Pillai in Icon 2.He is too good for Icon towers.If you want i can PM his tel no.


I just pm'd you.


----------



## jagmp

^^
See your PM.


----------



## shagdash

^^
Yes, if someone wants to live in a 2 bed instead of 1 bed, then even rock bottom rentals will not hold them back.
Best to look for new tenants - but do price your apartment sensibly to avoid head and heartache.
Just heard of a Type 1E (largest type) with 3 beds plus maid's and study and family room in Springs 6 with full lake view rented for 140k. And this is when I have seen these advertised near the 200k mark.


----------



## jagmp

Mission is back said:


> Maybe i should use the apartment myself for a couple of years and enojy it and stop worrying about tenants


Thats the spirit.I will do the same if it comes to worst.

My service charges stays the same for third year in MD 5. 14 dirham/psft including chiller AC use of apt and gas.Not bad.


----------



## shagdash

3 beds in JBR now advertised at 115k.

REF YR001-3 BR + Maid's Appartment in JBR, Sadaf 4, for rent
AED 115,000 /yr 
24th Feb 2010
Property for Rent Apartment/Flat 

Bedrooms: 3 Bathrooms: 4 Size: 1740.00 SqFt Rent is paid: Yearly Agency fees: 6500 Listed by: Agent 

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...001-3-br-maids-appartment-in-jbr-sadaf-4-f-2/


----------



## HateTorch

Mission is back said:


> But her company pays for her rent not out of her salary so i am not to sure of the logic. She travels a lot and is never in the apartment.


Maybe her company gives her a lump sum for the rental, and she can pocket the difference if the actual rent is lower. Since she travels slot, she may think that it doesnt make sense for her to pay such high rental, esp she can get 2BR, compared to your existing 1BR.

In fact I will be doing the same to my landlord too, since now I have many other choices to choose from.


----------



## mackie1964

Unless you are desperate (which I know you are not), please do not rush into anything. Time to learn buddy, now you are a little bit more experienced.

Almost every one in the building (which is a great building comparing with many in the Marina) has been getting 30 to 40% more than you because you rush into making deals. Just take your time and let her go, find someone else. :cheers:



Mission is back said:


> Guys and girls.
> 
> I know i have posted this before either i am naive or i really dont know what the rental market in dubai is at the moment.
> 
> tenant rental:
> 1st year 95k
> 2nd year 68k
> 3rd year just offered 60k and i will cover the chiller fees, which are about 5k.
> 
> She has just rejected this and said she is moving out. My apartment is a 1bedroom in Timeplace and 703sq. Ami i asking for to much or is she just playing games?
> 
> Opinions would be appreciated?
> If you think this is to high please advise what would be a reasonable rental?


----------



## dubinv

I rent my apartment and the tenant made the cheque at my name. Can the agent put the cheque on my account if I didn't sign at the back of the cheque?


----------



## glover

^^^ yes, anyone can deposit that check into your account! no signature is needed from you.


----------



## speculator

mackie1964 said:


> Unless you are desperate (which I know you are not), please do not rush into anything. Time to learn buddy, now you are a little bit more experienced.
> 
> Almost every one in the building (which is a great building comparing with many in the Marina) has been getting 30 to 40% more than you because you rush into making deals. Just take your time and let her go, find someone else. :cheers:



I agree. Dont short change yourself and stand your ground. The marina is desirable and if she wants somewhere else let her go & you relax. Sometimes its better to have a clean break.


----------



## Mission is back

mackie1964 said:


> Unless you are desperate (which I know you are not), please do not rush into anything. Time to learn buddy, now you are a little bit more experienced.
> 
> Almost every one in the building (which is a great building comparing with many in the Marina) has been getting 30 to 40% more than you because you rush into making deals. Just take your time and let her go, find someone else. :cheers:


Cheers Mackie 

You are like my mentor....... I appreciate it


----------



## Mission is back

speculator said:


> I agree. Dont short change yourself and stand your ground. The marina is desirable and if she wants somewhere else let her go & you relax. Sometimes its better to have a clean break.


Cheers.

I think i am just worried as the market is very unstable.


----------



## True Blue

Mission is back said:


> Cheers.
> 
> I think i am just worried as the market is very unstable.


There are thousands of people who invested in off plans in Dubai that would gladly trade their problems for yours. Stay positivekay:


----------



## gerald.d

Sterling down almost 2 cents against the dollar so far today.

1.5220

Hold on tight.


----------



## 234sale

sterling is heading back to 5aed to the pound. Mr printy, printy wants to win his first election. GDP will be revised this week to show Mr Printy Print NEVER CAME OUT of RECESSION. 

Gordon the Moron...... For ever shall he be called.. Aka Mr Printy, Printy...


----------



## Jondubai

Well good news if we do get it in september and im getting all my stuff from ikea, so decision made :banana: haha btw did they reply to your mail regarding ogood or has anyone heard anything new. :nuts:


----------



## jonny.rotten13

Andr have you sold yet. If not explain exactly the deal so we can learn something and you never know someone might get interested to buy in this very high profile development.


----------



## speculator

Sterling will continue to slide below 5 AED. Question is how long it will stay low and when it recovers to its long term average. This will certainly impact inward investment to UAE and of course outward money flows from UAE. 

Well at least UAE has something going for it; a stable and strong currency if nothing else.


----------



## Goss

deleted


----------



## 234sale

http://www.exchange-rates.org/history/AED/GBP/G


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> sterling is heading back to 5aed to the pound. Mr printy, printy wants to win his first election. *GDP will be revised this week to show Mr Printy Print NEVER CAME OUT of RECESSION*.
> 
> Gordon the Moron...... For ever shall he be called.. Aka Mr Printy, Printy...


*Not very good at this economic stuff are you.* 

The Office of National Statistics revised its figure for fourth quarter GDP to show 0.3% growth - up from its previous estimate of 0.1%.
The figure, which is drawn from a greater pool of economic data than the initial estimate revealed a month ago, was also higher than the 0.2% expected by the markets.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Bu...ght_With_Fourth_Quarter_GDP_Revised_Up_By_ONS


----------



## gerald.d

^^ I heard it was just a printing error and they missed off the minus sign.


----------



## True Blue

If Dubai is looking rocky them UK is looking even rockier.

Reuters headlines today; House prices fall unexpectedly by 1% in February, Bank lifts deposit guarantees, kids will cost you £200k (wtf anyone want a couple of teenagers?:lol

Just where do you put your fortunes when Banks are not guaranteeing cash deposits and house prices are sliding again? The sex industry perhaps? My pensioner father has just returned from Tenerife from his usual winter sun hibernation. Said he was solicited by young Eastern European prostitutes out on his morning constitutionals. He also witnessed them being caught pick pocketing tourists. First time he every saw this in 25 years of visiting Tenerife. Crime and poverty work hand in hand. Better go and test my burgular alarm.


----------



## dubaimat

gerald.d said:


> ^^ I heard it was just a printing error and they missed off the minus sign.


Any chance you could provide a source?


----------



## dubaimat

Arabtec stops work over bills

Arabtec has stopped work on one of Nakheel’s largest housing projects because it has not been paid by the Dubai World-owned developer, says a senior official of the construction company.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100225/BUSINESS/702259868/1005


----------



## High Times

True Blue said:


> If Dubai is looking rocky them UK is looking even rockier.
> 
> Reuters headlines today; House prices fall unexpectedly by 1% in February, Bank lifts deposit guarantees,


Funny how the same news can always be interpreted in different ways by different people.

Everyone i know in my industry (Financial Services), fully expected house price data to fall in Q1 2010. Stamp duty amnesty, VAT increase, and unusualy bad winter weather all contributing factors.

As for the deposit guarantee, that is a sign of a strengthening Banking sector in the UK. The guarantees simply wernt used, or needed so it's back to where we were before the run on Northern Rock.

Lloyds Group down 7% today. I'm having some of that. :cheers:

Knowing what UKFI paid for it it's got GUARANTEED written all over it.


----------



## speculator

Morrismarina said:


> Some interesting points but I doubt Labour are fudging the figures to the extent that stuff is being criminally hidden..


Come on they can do what they want & and walk sideways when asked questions in the future.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai property prices to see further drop

Dubai's real estate sector continues to struggle in 2010 as the latest set of figures released by Dubai-based real estate consultancy, the Landmark Advisory, reveal sale prices and rents for villas, apartments and offices will continue to decline.

Because of the supply glut, through Q1 2010, apartment prices are expected to fall by as much as 20% over the next 18 months. And despite increasing in Q3 last year, villa prices in Dubai have stagnated, with a marginal increase of 0.2% in the fourth quarter. In the fourth quarter 2009, apartment prices fell 4.3%, which was similar to the 3% decline in Q3 2009.

'While villas prices remain unchanged on average, there is a variance of pricing emerging based on location,' said Jesse Downs, director of research & advisory services, Landmark Advisory. 'Sale prices for villa communities along Sheikh Zayed Road - which we refer to broadly as coastal communities - have increased while inland communities have decreased.'

Fewer transactions

Sale and leasing transactions for commercial property remained low in Q42009 with average sale prices down 5.1%, while office rents dropped 8.4%. According to Landmark Advisory, this trend will continue to decline as an estimated 48 million square feet of office space enters the market over a four-year period.

Landmark Advisory also estimates that average rents are likely to decline as more residential supply is delivered at a time of weak demand fundamentals. 

Its latest quarterly report also focused on the ratings of the top developers in Dubai. The quantitative evaluation revealed a deficit of Grade A developers, with the top 52 developers in Dubai achieving an average rating of C. Seventy-one per cent of developers were graded C+ or lower. 

The consultancy said this low ranking will contribute to the ongoing divergence within the asset classes. 

Downs added: 'To date, much of the supply already delivered was built by master developers, which rank higher. However, these developers constitute the minority of the total pipeline of units within the next several years. 

The single-asset developers currently building the bulk of the forthcoming supply have a significantly lower rank and may suffer further credit downgrades as their product is forecasted to overpromise and under deliver. This phenomenon will create a bifurcation between integrated, high-quality units and those poor quality units within fragmented communities where many builders have postponed their developments indefinitely."

Location is key

The findings echo those of the consultants Jones Lang LaSalle, whose latest report outlined a number of key real estate trends in the UAE. Most pertinent was the finding that the UAE market will experience greater differentiation in 2010 as some locations will perform better than others, resulting in a polarising effect on the market. 

Craig Plumb, head of research at Jones Lang LaSalle MENA said: 'The need to rebuild confidence and greater transparency is no longer optional but a necessity in the region's fast evolving real estate markets. The rate of decline may be comparatively less in 2010 than in 2009 but the timing of recovery will depend on additional demand from both investors and tenants. As the markets mature, investors need to take a longer term view as the levels of returns are expected to become more stable and sustainable."

Dubai's collapsing real estate market - which was estimated to contribute 50% to the emirate's GDP - has had a number of knock-on effects. The emirate has announced a 6% cut in state spending for 2010 as it feels the strain of its debts as a consequence of the real estate collapse. Spending is projected to be $9.64bn in 2010, compared with $10.3bn in 2009.

Unable to fall back on hydrocarbon-backed wealth, Dubai's cut in spending come in sharp contrast to its neighbours. For example, Saudi Arabia has unveiled its largest-ever budget of $144bn for 2010, a 14% increase in expenditure compared to 2009 budget of $126bn.

http://www.ameinfo.com/225218.html


----------



## dubaiprojects

*maintenance charges*

Is there a way(s) one can avoid paying maintenance charges? Perhaps there is some sort of agent which we can pay some amount and they shall take care of this cost?

cheers


----------



## amplesou

Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1
Did anyone receive such an email from [email protected]?
--------------------
In compliance with RERA’s requirement to register all off plan properties on Oqood (an online system for registration of off plan properties) the Land Department levies a fee for registration of each property.

As per RERA’s requirement Middle East Development LLC has initiated to register buyers on Oqood and this process will be fully completed upon payment of the fees as mentioned below;

Registration Charges: AED 1000
Processing Fees: AED 50
Total: AED 1050 (291 US $)

Beneficiary Name: M E Development
Bank Name: Arab Bank for Investment and Foreign Trade
Account No: 1000218964
Bank Swift Code: ABINAEAADXB
Bank Address: Po.Box.5549, Dubai Branch, UAE

We will appreciate settlement of your fee on or before March 07, 2010 and request you to indicate the Unit number and payment details. We also request you to forward us a copy of the proof of payment on [email protected] for further processing.

So one developer is charging 5000 
Our developer 3000
and this one from dsc kensington royale is 1000
Do the developer just make up how much they want to pay!
hno:hno:


----------



## Freestyler

Morrismarina said:


> I'll stick my neck out and have a go at predicting where Cable goes this year:
> 
> I'd guess the pound's weakness will hit resistance at around $1.50 in the next few weeks. Then will drop further to around $1.45 say 6 weeks from now due to the increasing risk of a hung parliament after the almost certain May election.
> Where it goes from there ?? IMO depends on the results of the election. If the Tories win by a decent working majority I see the pound gaining strength quickly to around $1.70 or $1.75 until the end of the year. If a hung parliament or Labour get re-elected could fall further to around $1.40 shortly after and stay there until year end.
> Can't see the Pound touching parity with the Dollar or Euro due to all the similar problems in the US and the devaluation that's already happened against the Euro over the last two years. Much of the UK's problems have already been factored into the Euro/Pound rate I reckon.
> Given all this I'd be tempted to cash in my Dirhams at around $1.45 in 6 weeks time and take my profit.
> So these are my thought so let's see where we are at year end and see if I was right.
> WARNING: For God's sake don't follow my advice though as I very often get my currency trades wrong. Cashed in AED 629,000 AED at 6.03 back in October.....shit !! :lol:


Very strong support at $1.48, very small chances going below that market price.


----------



## True Blue

Morrismarina said:


> Shame your place at The Jewels doesn't tick all the boxes TB. :lol:


When will you learn? It ticks the only box I care about. I can hardly walk with my pockets so heavily lined with all the gold that my Jewels apartment continues to earn me.

Remind me how well your apartments/investments are doing


----------



## Philippa C

Citizens of 34 nations exempt from UAE visit visa waiting period

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/v...t-from-uae-visit-visa-waiting-period-1.570542

There was some discussion of this topic a few weeks ago.




Trade, logistics to power Dubai economy
http://gulfnews.com/business/economy/trade-logistics-to-power-dubai-economy-1.590206 "If we continue to depend on real estate to drive us forward as it did in the last three to five years, I don't think it would play that role," "the shift would bring more focus to the trade, logistics and financial sectors instead. This is the basics of Dubai and this is the future."

Seems like a return to basics and what Dubai was originally built on.


----------



## True Blue

GBP falling fast already. Down 2cents against the dollar and 1.3cents against the Euro.

1 GBP only buys 5.52AED


----------



## gerald.d

Freestyler said:


> Very strong support at $1.48, very small chances going below that market price.


See you on Friday


----------



## Freestyler

gerald.d said:


> See you on Friday


Well it is now touching the support line and it can break. I hope it doesn't but seems like market is in a very bearish mood.


----------



## True Blue

gerald.d said:


> See you on Friday


See you 12:00 mid day today. already down 3.5 cents now.


----------



## Freestyler

True Blue said:


> See you 12:00 mid day today. already down 3.5 cents now.


Reason: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601083&sid=a_IxH.GmFCpc


> The U.K. pound dropped to the lowest in almost ten months against the dollar as polls showed that the U.K. may have its first minority government since 1974, hampering efforts to cut the nation’s debt.


----------



## Freestyler

mama mia! sterling sliced through crucial support line.


----------



## Freestyler

> Economic and monetary-policy risks are weighing on the pound Monday, pushing the currency to its lowest level against the dollar in nine months and even shoving it down to its lowest level for the year against the euro.
> 
> The outlook on the currency is now looking weak, with data released late last week already suggesting that some traders’ negative bets on the pound against the dollar have surged to an all-time record.
> 
> Uncertainty surrounds the Bank of England’s monetary policy meeting Thursday, while opinion polls over the weekend showed a shrinking lead for the Conservative Party ahead of the general election, which must be held by June.
> 
> “It continues to be all negative for the pound at the moment,” said Audrey Childe-Freeman, an analyst at US bank Brown Brothers Harriman in London. “Dreadful economics, an uncertain monetary policy environment and highly uncertain politics will all leave sterling vulnerable in the near term,” she added.
> 
> http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2010/03/01/pound-drops-sharply-as-risks-abound/


I underestimated the elections on the price of pound. The way things are looking now, we might see $1.36 again by June.


----------



## True Blue

mackie1964 said:


> Are we heading to the 5.2 AED to £ again?





True Blue said:


> ^^General election on the way, I guess so!





Freestyler said:


> I underestimated the elections on the price of pound. The way things are looking now, we might see $1.36 again by June.


^^I didn't


----------



## Spurs

whats the best way to send money from Dubai to the UK, getting the best possible exchange rate?


----------



## gerald.d

Spurs said:


> whats the best way to send money from Dubai to the UK, getting the best possible exchange rate?


Best I've found is using one of the many exchange places. Better rates and cheaper commission than the banks.


----------



## mackie1964

True Blue said:


> ^^I didn't


Smart A$$, it will be back at 1.69 to 1.70 soon :cheers: June is only a few weeks away.


----------



## DXBQuantum

Spurs said:


> whats the best way to send money from Dubai to the UK, getting the best possible exchange rate?


I use First Rate FX - do you want their information?


----------



## Imre

*Capital gains in Dubai?*

Posted in: Crane Country
Posted by: Bradley Hope on March 1, 2010 4:35 PM 


Buried deep in the recent IMF report about Dubai is a very interesting nugget. Describing how the property bubble got out of hand, the IMF team say that the Dubai authorities are looking at other ways to limit "renewed speculative pressures in the real estate sector":


"More frequent and closer monitoring of bank practices related to this sector;

"*The possible introduction of a capital gains tax on property transactions *(registered by the Dubai Land Department) and on securities that derive their value from real property;

A more active Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) as concerns compliance with Anti-Money Laundering regulations by property developers, brokers and other intermediaries. This could help slow down transactions that do not require local financing."

Obviously, the large font is my emphasis. But this seems like a major change on the horizon that would have far reaching consequences for property investors and home buyers in Dubai. We're unlikely to find out from Rera what the plan is for the time being. The regulators of the property sector in Dubai have pulled out of the public sphere for the last year.

http://blogs.thenational.ae/crane_country/2010/03/capital-gains-in-dubai.html

IMF report:

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2010/cr1042.pdf


----------



## noir-dresses

AltinD said:


> A chestnuts cart would be better. I want my baked chestnuts and don't wanna go to Mercato mall to find them :rant:


This is no joke Altin, I know some Albanian's from Kosovo who do this kind of thing in Zagreb, and they make some good money, a lot more than rent in Dubai at the moment.


----------



## AltinD

DXBQuantum said:


> I think a great one is caramel and chocolate covered cashew nuts, uuummm investment!


Unhealthy ... yack!




noir-dresses said:


> This is no joke Altin, I know some Albanian's from Kosovo who do this kind of thing in Zagreb, and they make some good money, a lot more than rent in Dubai at the moment.


Mine isn't either. I really want (demand) easy access to baked chestnuts ... NOW!


----------



## Ingi

*110 K with 1 cheque*

I have just seen this 2 bed appt in yansoon 2 ,opposite dubai mall. The LL was asking 120 k but accepted 110 k with 1 cheque. The real estate agent tells me the flat is 1400 Sq ft but i doubt it cos it looks smaller to me , so asked him to double check. So what do you think?Is it a good price? Should I go for it?


----------



## 234sale

As them for the floor plan, to check the size.

If you want it, why not..


You'll be near me, OTR and OTL,, what ever happened to OTL?


----------



## Ingi

234sale said:


> As them for the floor plan, to check the size.
> 
> If you want it, why not..
> 
> 
> You'll be near me, OTR and OTL,, what ever happened to OTL?



I love the area..I was just wondering if 110 was good price...I know for 1400 Sq ft flat 110 k is great ..not so sure for a smaller one..The agent is going to double check but he seems lost.. he first told me the flat was in reehan, when it is actually in yansoon.. then he got the size wrong..and he's not sure abt the a/c fees either. urrghhhhhhhhhhhhh!


----------



## 234sale

110K AED inclusive is fantastic.

Chiller fees can be aroun 10,000 AED
Maintance is about 20AED sft, I don't own, just a guess.

Dont trust anyone, including me, especially not agents, They just want the deal done so they can move onto the next.



http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/edmundconway/100004089/is-this-the-start-of-a-sterling-crisis/
Pound Crisis


----------



## FARIBA

HI ALL
Has anyone stopped making payment to memon for ct4 ?if so did they ask to cancell your apt?just wondering


----------



## shagdash

DXBQuantum said:


> Seriously? That is like Al Quoz...


A friend's family rented it out. Asking for 100k, negotiated down 4k.


----------



## docc

^^ Chiller fees?


----------



## speculator

High Times said:


> Hows the suicide rate doing in Dubai?


Most likely better than the UK.


----------



## Morrismarina

***


----------



## Freestyler

speculator said:


> Most likely better than the UK.


Well, UK has less sunshine.


----------



## Morrismarina

speculator said:


> Most likely better than the UK.


Actually property wise the UK is doing much better. Prices are now only down 12% from their peak compared with a 50% reduction in Dubai. Rental prices in the UK have not fall at all compared with a reduction of 40% in Dubai.

Also mortgage rates are much lower in the UK, my But To Let mortgages are only costing me 1.49% (BBR + 0.99 for life) compared to rates of 8% to 9% in Dubai.

There is also little threat of future oversupply in the UK with demand for rental properties very strong. So looking at the property market it is much better here in the UK. :cheers:


----------



## Rob Timpie

FARIBA said:


> HI ALL
> Has anyone stopped making payment to memon for ct4 ?if so did they ask to cancell your apt?just wondering


Now why would anyone stop making payments? :?
If you want they can link your payments to construction...


----------



## Rob Timpie

amplesou said:


> amplesou said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talking of these 2 they have gone very quiet at the moment !
> Hi are you out there !
> Your apartments are getting built don,t worry ,you have,nt messed up !
> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't seen or heard of them for a long time either, maybe they sold their apartments and moved to China... :lol:
Click to expand...


----------



## High Times

^^

I said that without using my lips. :cheers:


----------



## Smokeey

Freestyler said:


> Well, UK has less sunshine.


And more Chavs.


----------



## True Blue

Morrismarina said:


> Actually property wise the UK is doing much better. Prices are now only down 12% from their peak compared with a 50% reduction in Dubai. Rental prices in the UK have not fall at all compared with a reduction of 40% in Dubai.
> 
> Also mortgage rates are much lower in the UK, my But To Let mortgages are only costing me 1.49% (BBR + 0.99 for life) compared to rates of 8% to 9% in Dubai.
> 
> There is also little threat of future oversupply in the UK with demand for rental properties very strong. So looking at the property market it is much better here in the UK. :cheers:


The perfect mix is dubai property bought at 750psf or less financed on a UK secured mortgage tracker 0.17 above BOE base for life 

It's easy to be a clever clogs with hind sight. I investigated mortgages in 2006/7 in Dubai as Amlak were offering special rates of 6.5% secured against the Jewels development. At that time mortgage rates were about the same as the UK. I fancied the Dubai mortgage so that if something catastrophic happened I could cut my losses and walk away. The reason I ended up chosing a UK mortgage was the simplicity of it all. Amlak were being very difficult and expensive to apply for a mortgage with. In the first meeting they had me hanging around for 6 hours. Many people were waiting before me and still had not been attended to after I was finished, despite this the bank staff were slow and completely unphased by the work load, costantly taking personal calls on their mobiles while you stared at them in dissbelief. UAE expat mortgages are not easy to pay up early either, you're pretty much locked in for all the payments.


----------



## speculator

Morrismarina said:


> Actually property wise the UK is doing much better. Prices are now only down 12% from their peak compared with a 50% reduction in Dubai. Rental prices in the UK have not fall at all compared with a reduction of 40% in Dubai.
> 
> Also mortgage rates are much lower in the UK, my But To Let mortgages are only costing me 1.49% (BBR + 0.99 for life) compared to rates of 8% to 9% in Dubai.
> 
> There is also little threat of future oversupply in the UK with demand for rental properties very strong. So looking at the property market it is much better here in the UK. :cheers:


Dubai has seen the brunt of it & still readjusting. The correction is ongoing. But it aint even started yet in the UK. Imagine things are so bad in blighty without a correction. Just wait for the double dip and the long downward spiral.

Oh by the way : 1.00 GBP =5.52807 AED


----------



## High Times

speculator said:


> Dubai has seen the brunt of it & still readjusting. The correction is ongoing. But it aint even started yet in the UK. Imagine things are so bad in blighty without a correction. Just wait for the double dip and the long downward spiral.
> 
> Oh by the way : 1.00 GBP =5.52807 AED


Wow that's some good shit your smokin.

Read morris' post again when your sober and then add:

as more and more people see Dubai proprty due to favourable FX rates and property ownership costs continue to rise driving net yields even lower. Less people coming to do business in Dubai as the Government are not trusted. Swathes of empty tower blocks not being maintained due to unpaid maintainence fees. 

Lifts not working
Buildings leaking

UK is not utopia, but you know what your getting and can plan accordingly so any situation can be managed. In Dubai things can change overnight without warning on a whim. Impossible for business to work with these rules.

Nice weather and lovely beaches though.

P.S.

Out of all the Dubai expats who enjoy a good old britt bash, how many still own a UK property?


----------



## 234sale

I don't hence why I can bash it, You do so thats why you cant.

But I own property in Dubai, but can bash that if I like.

HT you are right the economic armageddon was swept under the carpet..

Did you know that if we were going to be hit by an asteroid, one tactic would be to blow up the moon. So in light of the how the crisis has been fixed, With more Debt and the creation of more money.. Blowing up the moon was the only choice.


----------



## speculator

High Times said:


> Wow that's some good shit your smokin.
> 
> Government are not trusted. Swathes of empty tower blocks not being maintained due to unpaid maintainence fees.
> 
> Lifts not working
> Buildings leaking
> 
> UK is not utopia,
> ?


YEP that sounds like good old blighty for sure.

Yeah Man you wanna try what im on. World is rosy through all this smoke.
*
1.00 GBP = 4.51830 AED*


----------



## High Times

234sale said:


> HT you are right the economic armageddon was swept under the carpet..


Just like every other economic armageddon since the South Sea Bubble, and every one since.

It's called capitalism. Life goes on. :cheers:


----------



## High Times

speculator said:


> *1.00 GBP = 4.51830 AED*


Great news for the success of Dubai maaaaan. 

Pass me da bifta and sam wata melon. Reminds me of a Bob Marley tune which is kind of apt for whats coming to Dubai.

*Exodus. - *

smussuw will be pleased to have his country back*. *


----------



## speculator

I'm sure you would do better in a Bob Marley karaoke.

So OK can we sum it up as such:

*Dubai = Exodus
UK = Armageddon*


----------



## AltinD

speculator said:


> I'm sure you would do better in a Bob Marley karaoke.
> 
> So OK can we sum it up as such:
> 
> *UK = Armageddon*


Karaoke this:






Yes, they're Brits


----------



## speculator

Im practicing. :rock:Wife keeps telling me to shut it ! :gaah:


----------



## 234sale

Exodus






The Luton based Exodus Collective came into existence in 1992 as part of the growing DIY culture which arose in response to unemployment, poverty and frustration amongst young people.

Armageddon also another outfit..

The 234sale is actually 23 for sale

I was with Spiral Tribe for a bit, went to a few exodus events. Maybe most of you have no idea about what I am talking of. Forward the revolution.


----------



## MikeMuz

Rob Timpie said:


> amplesou said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't seen or heard of them for a long time either, maybe they sold their ^^apartments and moved to China... :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a saying somewhere about a slow boat to china !
> Bet, if there is one it was built by Memon.!!!
> Let's hope it doesn't sink half way there.!!:lol:
> listen to me I,m being negative just like amplesou.:lol:
> The only place i'm going is to the Hamarain centre to demand a refund!!
> I'd have done better putting my money ona bet that the slow boat would get to china and back 1000,000,000 times before Memon complete any projects^^^^:bash:
Click to expand...


----------



## amplesou

hey your back !
Why have you been so quite ?

I went to dsc in 2nd week in january just to get some pics and an update !
Believe me people / investers on here don,t ever go to dubai let lone get in to dsc !
Still i reacon the trip to dubai,flights /apartment/ car hire/loss of earning cost me £3k but i feel it was worth it just to update others as well as myself !
I went solo which i have to say i did,nt enjoy as i don,t know anybody in dubai i guess i missed the family ! (and me new cat)
I stayed on the palm ,like every where else in dubai they just leave it half finished and just not enough things to do ,all right if you work there and have a nice villa i guess!
Any way champion towers are progressing which is better than some i can think of !!
We should have our apartment in september after investing in december 2006 (canal residence west) which has been along wait !
Imagine what the palm and jbr investers had to go thru as much as 6 years wait for hand over !
At least they where dealing with main constructers !
Any way if you hang in there you will be rewarded in the end i am sure of this 
as dsc is all ready a much better place than marina /jbr/ palm etc and allready plenty to do !
:cheers:


----------



## Ali_Syed

I have 1 bed apartment in Mediteranian building to sell. contact me for enquiries.

decided to sell one and keep one!


----------



## mackie1964

*BoE Keeps Interest Rate On Hold Again*

The Bank of England has opted against providing fresh aid for the economy after a year of record low interest rates and emergency stimulus measures.
Its rate-setting committee marked the first anniversary of quantitative easing by leaving the programme unchanged at £200bn and holding borrowing costs at 0.5%.

The no-change policy was widely predicted, with all members of the Sky News Money Panel both expecting and endorsing such an approach.

*It comes a week after official estimates suggested Britain's climb out of recession was marginally stronger than previously thought in the final quarter of 2009.*
But the 0.3% economic growth was still less than analysts' initial expectations, while markets are also showing jitters about the scale of the UK's budget deficit and uncertainty regarding the general election outcome.

*Recent surveys have showed manufacturing and services activity picking up pace and consumer confidence at its highest level for two years.*
But snow and a rise in VAT have hit retailers, while house prices also registered their first fall in nearly a year during February, according surveys from Halifax and Nationwide.

Tax expert George Bull, of Baker Tilly, told Sky News it was essential for the Bank to aid recovery by providing confidence and stability.

"Threats to borrowing rates or giddiness in the markets about extending QE should be avoided," he said.

"Acting harshly now on either might shake what little business confidence is returning to the real economy."

Meanwhile Bronwyn Curtis, head of global research at HSBC, said very little had changed in the economic landscape which would warrant a change of tack by the Bank of England.

"We know that the early stages of any economic recovery are uncertain and, at present, the uncertainty is unusually high," she told Sky News.

"This is just when we expect policymakers to show that they are a safe pair of hands."

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Bu...ion:_Cost_Of_Borrowing_And_QE_Remain_The_Same


----------



## Imre

*Owners realise benefits of PM in Discovery Gardens *

*Dubai-based Asteco property management (PM) dominates mixed-use development - portfolio of 14 buildings running at over 90% occupancy *

Property owners using property management (PM) company Asteco, are now finding that professional property management can be cost effective, which is also paying dividends for Asteco. 

Asteco now manages 14 buildings located in Discovery Gardens, by far one of the largest portfolios of any property firm in the development and at present the occupancy levels throughout their properties in Discovery Gardens is averaging between 90% to 95%.

“Whilst maintaining rental income and maintenance contracts for our single building owners we also manage a large number of individually owned units, some of whom reside abroad. The ability for them to have a trusted ‘partner’ to collect and manage all rent and expenditure day to day eases their burden and as such is extremely popular,” said John Stevens, Director – Property Management, Asteco, 
Property management services on offer include a fully integrated service, coordinating each and every aspect from the handover and snagging, right through to the day to day operations of the buildings once fully leased.

One clear advantage that Asteco has in Discovery Gardens is that is also the home of their property management head office. “Because of that we can seamlessly interact and coordinate with various Asteco departments, all onsite,” said Stevens.
This proved to be decisive during the initial handover of the buildings in Discovery gardens. Reports highlighting the snagging/defects of the buildings, was sent to the developer and Asteco ensured that all defects were attended to prior to accepting handover of the building from the developer. 

Full text here:

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/03/owners-realise-benefits-of-pm-in.html


----------



## Imre

*Owners realise benefits of PM in Discovery Gardens *

*Dubai-based Asteco property management (PM) dominates mixed-use development - portfolio of 14 buildings running at over 90% occupancy *

Property owners using property management (PM) company Asteco, are now finding that professional property management can be cost effective, which is also paying dividends for Asteco. 

Asteco now manages 14 buildings located in Discovery Gardens, by far one of the largest portfolios of any property firm in the development and at present the occupancy levels throughout their properties in Discovery Gardens is averaging between 90% to 95%.

“Whilst maintaining rental income and maintenance contracts for our single building owners we also manage a large number of individually owned units, some of whom reside abroad. The ability for them to have a trusted ‘partner’ to collect and manage all rent and expenditure day to day eases their burden and as such is extremely popular,” said John Stevens, Director – Property Management, Asteco, 
Property management services on offer include a fully integrated service, coordinating each and every aspect from the handover and snagging, right through to the day to day operations of the buildings once fully leased.

One clear advantage that Asteco has in Discovery Gardens is that is also the home of their property management head office. “Because of that we can seamlessly interact and coordinate with various Asteco departments, all onsite,” said Stevens.
This proved to be decisive during the initial handover of the buildings in Discovery gardens. Reports highlighting the snagging/defects of the buildings, was sent to the developer and Asteco ensured that all defects were attended to prior to accepting handover of the building from the developer. 

Full text here:

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/03/owners-realise-benefits-of-pm-in.html


----------



## paul66

Lol! What are you guys on? Shall we get back to the subject now please.


----------



## BlueBath

*B2B*

Hi 234Sale ! Thanks for your effort.

Seems something is going on this B2B site ! Anyone knows the fate of this project ? any speculation / information ?...........mind to share ?


----------



## True Blue

My AOL homepage is FULL of Dubai hotel deals constantly streaming in an ad window. Not sure if this is good or bad, I have never witnessed such attention grabbing before to sell hotel accomodation in Dubai or anywhere. Is business getting bad in Dubai for the hotels now, I wonder.

KLM even emailed me to try and sell flights to Dubai, if they checked their system they would see I have flown there plenty of times, here it is;



> Dubai is an experience not to be missed. Home to some of the world's most stunning beaches, tallest buildings, most famous hotels and finest dining, you simply have to see it for yourself! From indoor skiing to the wild waters of Wild Wadi water park, it's an oasis of relaxation, a city of fun and a shopper's paradise - there really is something for everyone!
> 
> Sound exciting? Then take advantage of our special fares and discover somewhere new! Book now at www.klm.com for this and other great worldwide offers.


Looks like the SELL DUBAI campaign has started in earnest.


----------



## sandb

DEC VICTIM said:


> Hi fellow DEC Victims,
> 
> I own a 2BHK unit in Lawns V which I booked in 2006 after paying about 15% of the property value. After a few letters last year asking for more payment I have had no correspondence with DEC for the last 4-5 months. I checked the RERA site and it shows the project is on hold-based on the thread it seems that there might be some legal recourse to it and you are gathering members.
> I would be more than willing to join any legal action that any fellow member is planning & I know another Lawns investor who can join as well. How can we go about it?
> 
> cheers


Hi guys,

to my knowledge i haven't heard anyone having won a case in court against a developer, i mean by that having got his money back.
I would be interested to exchange some informations with you guys, outside the forum, if more or us are connected together better our chances are to fight DEC, if you wish to contact me here is my email add: [email protected]

thank you.


----------



## dirtyharry1

Yes, flights are extremely cheap now from Europe, even in this so called high sesaon.

And not much going on in Terminal 1 or 3, only a few people there, no comparison to 2008 or before.


----------



## mackie1964

True Blue said:


> My AOL homepage is FULL of Dubai hotel deals constantly streaming in an ad window. Not sure if this is good or bad, I have never witnessed such attention grabbing before to sell hotel accomodation in Dubai or anywhere. Is business getting bad in Dubai for the hotels now, I wonder.
> 
> KLM even emailed me to try and sell flights to Dubai, if they checked their system they would see I have flown there plenty of times, here it is;
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like the SELL DUBAI campaign has started in earnest.


Someone told me that Dubai Hotels were advertised on EBay for as low as £35/night over the last two weeks. Did not have time to check it :cheers: KLM also starting Selling Dubai a couple of days back at very cheap prices (starting at £250). Business class seats are heavily discounted too..


----------



## True Blue

234sale said:


> ^^ Look at the exchange rates
> Today
> 830AED sqft @ 5.6AED:1GBP = £148.2 per sqft
> 
> Back in Nov 09
> 1000AEDsqft @ 6.2AED:1GBP = £161.3 per sqft
> 
> 17% lower in AED
> 
> 8% lower in GBP


We already know some are selling low because they are benefiting from the better exchange rates. But, how many of these are apartments that were never sold in a sold out building and how many are defaulters who never paid anymore than the first couple of payments?

This "sold out" strategy has been exposed before where they try to charge a premium on apartments that were never sold in the first place. Commonly used tactic in the motor trade to get past minimum pricing by "pre registering" a sale except used in reverse to charge more.


----------



## 234sale

True Blue said:


> We already know some are selling low because they are benefiting from the better exchange rates. But, how many of these are apartments that were never sold in a sold out building and how many are defaulters who never paid anymore than the first couple of payments?


Some did do this, others didn't. I nearly bought oldtown island in 2006 at 1400 aed sqft. They said it was the last one, I thought yeah that old chessnut. Went back the next day and everything had gone.

Phased selling is usual practise as sold out applies to what they wanted to sell.

I expect Emaar has 20% of Downtown Unsold. 
They probabaly still have units in the first 6, Sahab and Al majara as well.


----------



## Guest89

*Key realty project sales show improvement*

*Downtown Dubai, Emirates Living, Dubai Marina and Dubailand generate most sales and leasing queries.*









Image credit goes to source​

Downtown Dubai, Emirates Living, Dubai Marina and Dubailand top the listing chart for sales and leasing queries, according to agents.

"Downtown Dubai has the highest number of listings by most realty agents in Dubai. The second popular area is Dubai Marina with a large focus on Jumeirah Beach Residence (JBR)," said Mohanad Al Wadiya, Managing Director, Harbor Real Estate.

For Harbor Real Estate, the number of listings in these areas has increased by 20 per cent to 25 per cent in 2010. "Business Bay with a larger focus on the recently launched Executive Towers comes third, according to us," he added.

Al Wadiya said Downtown Dubai and Dubai Marina have always been ranked high and are one of the most sought-after areas in Dubai.

"The location of both these areas is good, which is the most important decision investors take while investing. Further, the current price points have also made these two districts more attractive as they have became more affordable.

"Another key reason for this increased attention and demand is the fact that both these areas include popular attractions such as The Dubai Mall, The Marina Mall, The JBR walk, The Marina walk, the free beach in JBR and Burj Khalifa."

Better Homes' Liz O'Connor, Director – Residential Sales and Leasing, said: "Our top-selling districts between November 2009 and February 2010 have been The Emirates Living District, Marina District, Downtown District and the Dubailand districts."

"For us, between November 2009 and February 2010, we received the most listings for the Emirates Living District, such as The Greens, Emirates Living, Jumeirah Village, Jumeirah Lake Tower (JLT), followed by Dubai Marina, Dubailand and Downtown Dubai districts," said O'Connor.

Vineet Kumar, Head of Leasing and Sales – Dubai, Asteco Property Management, said: "Majority of listings we received in the past two months are for recently handed over projects such as the Loft apartments in Downtown Dubai and the Executive Towers in Business Bay.


_Read more from Source: http://www.business24-7.ae/companies-markets/real-estate/key-realty-project-sales-show-improvement-2010-03-08-1.65005_


----------



## IISinbadII

DXBQuantum said:


> You should try going to London....
> 
> hno:


Now you don't want Dubai to become another London, do you? hno:


----------



## amplesou

tonydubai said:


> Well I have paid my 2000 AED's and have a DSC receipt to prove it...!!! I think this OQOOD registration is a good thing and we should be happy that DSC are complying with this regulation. This can only be a positive thing for us owners.




Glad for you !
Money well spent !
what a smuch !
no explantion just trying to prove that he actually has paid and has a reciept to prove it !!!
He also thinks it is a good thing and we should be happy but again no reason just a good thing, oh well in that case we might as well all pay up :nuts:
PS i,m gonna be positive with out getting rippoed off if i can !
Anyway i heard that as long as some one in these towers pays it covers the rest of us !
Happy days :banana:


----------



## Jondubai

Well Amplesou I am with you and haven't paid either, surely they arent that broke that they really need the 2000 dhs from us at this point of time, if we have to pay it we will, but i dont see the urgency when most of us have paid like 70%-80% and more for our apartments  :banana:


----------



## dubaimat

Guest89 said:


> *Downtown Dubai, Emirates Living, Dubai Marina and Dubailand generate most sales and leasing queries.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image credit goes to source​
> 
> Downtown Dubai, Emirates Living, Dubai Marina and Dubailand top the listing chart for sales and leasing queries, according to agents.
> 
> "Downtown Dubai has the highest number of listings by most realty agents in Dubai. The second popular area is Dubai Marina with a large focus on Jumeirah Beach Residence (JBR)," said Mohanad Al Wadiya, Managing Director, Harbor Real Estate.
> 
> For Harbor Real Estate, the number of listings in these areas has increased by 20 per cent to 25 per cent in 2010. "Business Bay with a larger focus on the recently launched Executive Towers comes third, according to us," he added.
> 
> Al Wadiya said Downtown Dubai and Dubai Marina have always been ranked high and are one of the most sought-after areas in Dubai.
> 
> "The location of both these areas is good, which is the most important decision investors take while investing. Further, the current price points have also made these two districts more attractive as they have became more affordable.
> 
> "Another key reason for this increased attention and demand is the fact that both these areas include popular attractions such as The Dubai Mall, The Marina Mall, The JBR walk, The Marina walk, the free beach in JBR and Burj Khalifa."
> 
> Better Homes' Liz O'Connor, Director – Residential Sales and Leasing, said: "Our top-selling districts between November 2009 and February 2010 have been The Emirates Living District, Marina District, Downtown District and the Dubailand districts."
> 
> "For us, between November 2009 and February 2010, we received the most listings for the Emirates Living District, such as The Greens, Emirates Living, Jumeirah Village, Jumeirah Lake Tower (JLT), followed by Dubai Marina, Dubailand and Downtown Dubai districts," said O'Connor.
> 
> Vineet Kumar, Head of Leasing and Sales – Dubai, Asteco Property Management, said: "Majority of listings we received in the past two months are for recently handed over projects such as the Loft apartments in Downtown Dubai and the Executive Towers in Business Bay.
> 
> 
> _Read more from Source: http://www.business24-7.ae/companies-markets/real-estate/key-realty-project-sales-show-improvement-2010-03-08-1.65005_


^^^^translate: wishful thinking, a lot of listings and from what i am witnessing, very very few or almost no sales at all


----------



## 234sale

^^ They are on a positivity drive. Thats the best we can do, be positive. Interest rates have come down.. on 6.25% - 85% mortgage. Problem is mainly over supply and high cost of living.

Liz O'Connor , dirrector of sales and Leasing - She was only a residential leasing Manager last month. She is only reading the family business notes that are given to her. 

I get these updates from Landmark Properties


























Very useful when it comes to real selling prices.

Asteco, Hamptons or Landmark,,, my personal choice for quality info.


----------



## High Times

IISinbadII said:


> Now you don't want Dubai to become another London, do you? hno:


What, you mean a continued demand for housing with attractive net yields for property investors, low interest rates, a sound legal system, the right to live in your property once you have been allowed to buy it.

Oh did i forget rising house prices.

Dubai was setting out to emulate everything London is. Global financial hub, Global tourism hub, Global transport hub.

Just hasn't happened, and wont either due to incompetence and arrogance combined from the very top down.

You got me on the weather though. :cheers:


----------



## AltinD

High Times said:


> ... the right to live in your property once you have been allowed to buy it.


Errr ... NO


----------



## Dubai_Steve

bizzybonita said:


>


potential 15% rental yields here.


----------



## True Blue

^^Show me where that figure comes from, I'm not getting it.

Assuming 2 bed 1200ft x 840psf = AED1M, so they think a 1200ft 2 bed will be renting at 150k in 2011?? hno:

Typical Select miss selling. I'm gonna phone in the morning and ask to speak to miss selling, see what they say.:lol:


----------



## speculator

High Times said:


> Just hasn't happened, and wont either due to incompetence and arrogance combined from the very top down.
> :cheers:


Sounds like the UK to me.


----------



## DXBQuantum

True Blue said:


> ^^Show me where that figure comes from, I'm not getting it.
> 
> Assuming 2 bed 1200ft x 840psf = AED1M, so they think a 1200ft 2 bed will be renting at 150k in 2011?? hno:
> 
> Typical Select miss selling. I'm gonna phone in the morning and ask to speak to miss selling, see what they say.:lol:



Very true, 2011 - prices would have dropped even further.... all those supertalls completed... more and more supply... be lucky to get 100k per annum.


----------



## paul66

High Times said:


> What, you mean a continued demand for housing with attractive net yields for property investors, low interest rates, a sound legal system, the right to live in your property once you have been allowed to buy it. Oh did i forget rising house prices.


Attractive yields in London? I wouldn't call 3-4% very attractive.
In Dubai Marina you can now get yields of over 10% - now thats attractive!


----------



## High Times

paul66 said:


> Attractive yields in London? I wouldn't call 3-4% very attractive.
> In Dubai Marina you can now get yields of over 10% - now thats attractive!


Perhaps you should take a look outside Walworth. Take a cab out West.


----------



## dubsolos1

Law 13 is finalised even if not ratified. Can someone kindly specify what this 'Leveling' means exactly:

Leveling and infrastructure works are evidence that a developer has started a project.


----------



## True Blue

Prior to piling they need to establish the "commencing surface". This is a set level for estimating and payment purposes. I would assume that "leveling" is forming this commencing surface nice and flat, neat and tidy and to the level stated so that the works can commence.


----------



## Imre

*UAE government to stand by Dubai: Hamdan*

*Federal government will support Dubai as it tackles its $26 billion debt*

Dubai: The Federal government will support the emirate of Dubai if necessary, said Shaikh Hamdan Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Dubai Deputy Ruler and UAE Minister of Finance.

"The Emirates is one unit and hopefully things will be better soon," he said at the opening of the Water, Energy Technology and Environment Exhibition in Dubai on Tuesday.

In any event, Shaikh Hamdan said, the Dubai government has not yet asked for federal support. "The federation has not reached this point yet," he explained.

In November, Dubai World, a government related entity, has asked its creditors to restructure $21.9 billion debt and is negotiating a new payment schedule with its creditors in London this week.

Banks in the talks include HSBC and Standard Chartered and sources close to the matter are reported to believe a restructuring proposal is in its final stages.

However, the restructuring of the debt is being delayed by efforts to value the assets of Dubai World's property unit, Nakheel.

On December 14 Abu Dhabi government injected $10 billion into the Dubai Support Fund, to help deal with Dubai World's debt.

Of the total, $4.1 billion was used to pay off a maturing Nakheel sukuk. Dubai World has also been paying the interest on its loans, using government funding which ends in April.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/government/uae-government-to-stand-by-dubai-hamdan-1.594214


----------



## dubaiprojects

I can understand that during the recession, rentals have gone down say like 40% avg. However why the maintenance charges are still being charged at the same higher rates. Just needed to know how they calculated the charges (of course in sqft but rather what other factors)? Who is controlling this and what can be done?

Cheers


----------



## Guest89

*UAE eyes foreign ownership law by year-end*

*UAE eyes foreign ownership law by year-end*









Image Credit goes to source​
*The United Arab Emirates will review rules governing foreign ownership of companies in the next month and implement a new law by the end of this year, economy minister Sultan bin Saeed al-Mansouri said on Tuesday.*
"The law should be submitted to the cabinet within a month," he said on the sidelines of a conference. "Our expectation is that the law would come out by 2010."

Under current regulations, business owners from all nationalities except from within the six GCC states must have a local majority partner. Exceptions apply in free zones such as Jebel Ali Free Zone and Dubai Internet city, where 100 percent foreign ownership is allowed.

The new regulations have been in the pipeline for several years and are aimed at increasing foreign investment as restrictions on full ownership were considered a key reason for holding back investment and stifling competition.
The UAE, the world's third-largest oil exporter, has been striving to diversify its economy away from a dependence on energy exports by pouring windfall oil revenues into real estate, financial services and infrastructure.
Mansouri said in September the law was in its final stages and would include a rule stipulating a minimum capital of 200-300 million dirham ($54-$82 million). The new law is in line with recommendations made by the World Trade Organisation (WTO).

Dubai, the commercial hub of the seven members of the United Arab Emirates, has long sought to position itself as an international tourism and financial centre, luring businesses to its free zones with promises of tax-free earnings.

The global financial crisis put the brakes on a six-year oil-fuelled economic boom in the Gulf Arab region with Dubai hit the hardest after its real estate sector crashed in 2009. 


_Source: http://www.business24-7.ae/economy/uae-economy/uae-eyes-foreign-ownership-law-by-year-end-2010-03-09-1.66254_


----------



## HateTorch

dubaiprojects said:


> --- snip --- However why the maintenance charges are still being charged at the same higher rates. Just needed to know how they calculated the charges (of course in sqft but rather what other factors)? Who is controlling this and what can be done?
> 
> Cheers


For my rented apartment, the maintainence charges actually increase this year because they install new access control systems, mechnical failure of lifts, floods in lifts, pipes burst etc. These charges go to the landlord; he is not happy at all.
These charges are all billed by the management company running the daily show of the apartment. We do not see the charges billed by the vendor to the management company.


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*New property law extends protection for home buyers*

A new decree by Dubai Executive Council will provide more protection to home buyers as well as increasing the Land Department's (DLD) role as mediator in property disputes.

Law firm Hadef & Partners, which has reviewed a copy of the decree, released a brief summary of the regulations awaiting formal publication in the Official Gazette.

According to the statement, a buyer can request the courts to cancel a contract if the developer "significantly changes" the agreed specifications, or refuses to deliver the unit without any "justifiable reason".

Home buyers can also seek legal action if developers do not bind payments to construction-based milestones approved by the DLD, or the unit is proved unstable due to “major structural defects”.

“The regulations whilst providing some much needed clarity over many issues also throws up some interesting characteristics such as reinforcing the wide degree of power and discretion the DLD holds in respect of projects,” Hadef & Partners said in a statement.

Under the regulations, which govern off-plan property sales in Dubai, the DLD is able to cancel a project if the developer does not begin construction without “justifiable cause” or because of “gross negligence”.

If the developer is “not serious” about the project or declares itself bankrupt the DLD can also cancel the project.

The regulations also prevent developers from selling off-plan units before taking possession, which includes actual control of the land.

“It is also still not clear how the DLD will approach situations where a purported termination of a purchaser is met with resistance and/or whether the DLD will remove an interest in the interim register without a court order where a legitimate dispute has arisen,” the statement said.

“Further clarity may also be needed where a bankruptcy event occurs as to how exactly the interim registered interests will be treated as far as priority is concerned in the bankruptcy situation.” 

www.arabianbusiness.com/583383-new-property-law-extends-protection-for-home-buyers


----------



## cayman1

*
* Real Estate

Developers may send termination notices to buyers
Developers must advise the Dubai Land Department of termination.
By

* Staff Writer

Published Wednesday, March 10, 2010

Developers may be able to send termination notices to buyers directly. (REUTERS)

Property developers may now be able to send contract termination notices directly to investors provided they copy the notice to the Land Department, according to law firm Hadef and Partners.

Earlier, it was mandatory for the developers to approach the department who would then send notices for termination to the investors.

According to the law firm, decree No.6 of 2010 allows a developer not to sell at public auction if he completes more than 80 per cent of the project and may elect to terminate the contract and retain up to 40 per cent of the purchase price. A developer can only rescind a contract with a purchaser at a project where construction has not started, provided he proves fulfillment of all contractual obligations, the project was not initiated due to causes beyond his control and that the failure was not due to his negligence.

The regulations make it clear that a developer needs to only submit an application to register units under Article (3)(2) of Law 13 within the specified time in order to comply with the registration requirements. Applications made outside this time will still be registered but a fine of Dh10,000 will be levied.

The developer cannot refuse to transfer units if the purchaser has fulfilled his contractual obligations even if the purchaser owes other financial obligations not arising out of the particular contract.

CAUSES FOR CANCELLATION

- The project's plot is re-possessed for public interest

- If a government authority stops the project for re-planning;

- If excavations or service networks are found at the location

- If the master developer modifies the project's location in a way that prevents the sub-developer from executing its obligations

- Any other causes as deemed by the DLD

NEGLIGENCE BY A DEVELOPER

- Delay in taking handover of the plot and obtaining necessary approvals

- Sub-developer sells off plan without master developer's permission

- Delay in obtaining written approval for plans and designs

- Delays in preparation for actual construction

- Not providing the DLD with necessary information and financial data

- Non registration of project with DLD



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----------



## Spurs

*News Update*

This was relaesed today:

http://www.business24-7.ae/news/nat...dubai-real-estate-projects-2010-03-10-1.67031

In the article it states the following:

As per the legal update, the Land Department can cancel a project in different cases, some of which include where the developer does not initiate construction without justifiable reasons after obtaining required approvals; the developer breaches the Escrow law; the developer fails to commence the project due to gross negligence or the developer declares bankruptcy.

Does Aristocrap breach any of these????


----------



## Freestyler

seems they do appear to be in breach of at least one.


----------



## mackie1964

http://www.cityscapeintelligence.com/page/777140

http://www.cityscapeconnect.com/en/Cityscape-Tv/Discussion-Topics/?topicID=158


----------



## Philippa C

We got this by email. Positive sign that some banks are lending again. 

"ADCB's Mortgage Services helps you in turning your dream into a reality the home of mortgage solutions. 

· Get up to 85% LTV * Loan Period of 25years*Maximum Number of Developers. DXB & AUH""


·


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai Case Nakheel - Sunland: Emails the key*

March 11, 2010


CRACKS have emerged in the fraud prosecution of two Australian executives in Dubai, raising questions about the claims of their alleged victim, Sunland, the Gold Coast-based developer that alleges it was duped in a property deal.
BusinessDay believes a series of emails will be relied on by the defendants in Dubai and in a civil case in Australia in an attempt to contradict Sunland's claims that it was kept in the dark and that Matt Joyce and Marcus Lee misled it when they were working for Dubai Waterfront, the world's biggest waterfront development.Joyce and Lee spent nine months behind bars in the emirate until they were bailed in October to fight the fraud case, in which Sunland is the key witness for the prosecution. Its claims of being cheated are also central to the civil case it has launched against Joyce and other parties in the Federal Court, where it is trying to recoup millions lost on the venture.In the Dubai and Federal Court proceedings, Sunland alleges it was misled in two critical ways when it bought Plot D17 in 2007 from the Dubai government-owned master developer Nakheel, parent company of Dubai Waterfront.First, it says its chief operating officer in Dubai, David Brown, was duped into believing that another Australian company, Prudentia, had rights to buy the plot, so Sunland paid Prudentia a $14 million ''consulting fee'' to release the land.
Second, Sunland claims Joyce, as managing director of Dubai Waterfront, failed to disclose a long-term friendship with Prudentia's director, Angus Reed, with whom he attended Geelong Grammar.But Brown sent an email to Joyce on August 19, 2007, which is expected to be relied on in Joyce's defence in the Federal Court. Evidence for the plaintiff and the defence is yet to be heard in the proceedings, where the emails are expected to be presented in their full context.On its face, Brown appears to acknowledge in the email the status of Plot D17, and that Sunland's founder and executive director, Soheil Abedian, was informed. At this point, Sunland and Prudentia were negotiating a joint venture on the development plot.
''Thanks Matt,'' Brown wrote, ''I got your message and yes Soheil is aware that Prudentia are still in negotiations with Nakheel and have not purchased the site. Jeff [Austin, Nakheel's director of planning and development] and Anthony [Brearley, a Nakheel lawyer] have also made this clear. The fact they have not purchased D17 yet is better because [it will] allow us and Prudentia to agree to JV terms before we proceed to buy the site.''
In that email, Brown also told Joyce: ''I have informed Soheil of your prior relationship with Prudentia and your desire not to get involved.''
While it did not mention the old-school connection, this email may suggest that Joyce wanted to remain at arm's length from the deal. Brown wrote that Sunland would instead continue to deal ''with Anthony, Marcus [Lee] and Jeff''.But 10 days later, on August 29, in a 5.56am email to Joyce, Brown was ''extremely'' disappointed to hear that Nakheel was negotiating to sell the plot to a Russian group, ''considering the time and effort that we and our JV partner has put into the purchase of this plot''. Again, this calls into question Sunland's claim that it did not know Prudentia had secured no rights over the plot.
In Sunland's statement of claim in the Federal Court, Brown alleges that Joyce told him by phone on the same day as this email that other potential buyers, including Russians, might offer a much bigger price for the plot.
Sunland alleges this was to pressure it to proceed with the purchase.
The time of this alleged call is unclear but in Joyce's reply email to Brown, at 6.58am, he wrote that he doubted ''our guys would negotiate with another party without at least informing you'' - unless it was the work of Nakheel Sales without Dubai Waterfront's knowledge.
Prudentia and Angus Reed, in their defences lodged in the Federal Court, say they never suggested they owned Plot D17 or had sealed an option to buy it.
And they insist Sunland was fully aware of this.Rather, they argue, Nakheel had merely regarded Prudentia as a ''preferred negotiator''. On August 10, 2007, Nakheel's Jeff Austin had confirmed in a letter to Reed that it would be happy ''to grant you preliminary development and planning approval''.
''We also confirm that we would be happy to entertain discussions with your joint venture partner provided [they] are a proven developer like Prudentia,'' Austin wrote.Joyce's defence in the Federal Court says a draft sale agreement had been sent to Prudentia on August 15 and Dubai Waterfront did not want to appear to be involved in ''gazumping'' by dealing directly with the ''secondary developer'', Sunland.In any event, the joint-venture negotiations collapsed and Sunland decided to buy Plot D17 alone.
A document tendered in court in Dubai, dated September 18, 2007, shows its board agreed on the purchase and to enter a memorandum of understanding with Prudentia.The next day, David Brown and Angus Reed signed the deal, which included a strict confidentiality clause between the two parties. Sunland agreed to pay the consulting fee.In return, Prudentia handed over its ''right to negotiate'' with the master developer.It has also been alleged that Marcus Lee, who was Dubai Waterfront's head of commercial operations, had intervened to lower the price of Plot D17 to push the purchase along. Under this deal, it is alleged, Prudentia would take a ''land uplift'' fee - the difference between the lower price and the market price.But an internal Nakheel email on August 27, 2007, appears to clear Lee on this count. Nakheel's then director of sales and marketing, Manal Shaheen, sent the email to her CEO, and to Joyce and Lee. Shaheen told them that her team had found the price of 125 UAE dirhams ($A37) a square foot was too high. She wrote that Lee's ''business report should say market price which is 110 and then give me to sign''.Lee is expected to rely on this exchange to support his consistent position: that he merely did his job according to instructions of his superiors at Nakheel. When he later recommended a price of 120 UAE dirhams a square foot, he will argue that it was approved by his superiors.Shaheen's email suggests that Nakheel was informed. Nakheel has not come to the defence of Lee, who says he never gained nor stood to gain from the land sale.Nor has Nakheel defended Joyce, who says he was paid nothing in connection with the Sunland deal.Sunland is yet to develop Plot D17. Prudentia and Reed, in their defence in Australia, claim this means it has lost the opportunity to reduce its alleged loss by about 24 million dirhams ($A7.16 million).


----------



## enriquedubai2

tanuscha said:


> New to forum but what a headache! The Cresent next to Lakeside looks nice (at least outside), but they had/having so many issues after the completion!!!! What should we expect?!? worried, big time!
> 
> Reply I got from customer service on 2nd of Mach 2010 (without links or further references!!!)
> ..........................
> 
> Further to your email with ragsrds to you purchase in the Lakeside.
> As you enquired about the project update please refer to the information below:
> • Zaspse appointed as consultant
> • Enabling works - completed by NSCC
> • Letter of Intent for main works package issued to Gulf Technical Construction Company
> Anticipated Completion 38 months after the start of main works
> 
> We trust the above is clear should you require any further assistance please feel free to contact us,
> Yours sincerely,
> Ms.Tatyana
> Senior Client Relations Executive
> CLIENT RELATIONS>DAMAC Properties Co. LLC
> .....................
> I asked for further info but still nothing............



Interesting..... this is what I got today (and it totally contradicts the info about the company selected for main works)

I hope this email finds you all well. In relation to our previous update we have issued a letter on intent to "Shapoorji'for the enabling works & main works package.

We would keep you posted with more developments as we progress.

Should you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact us. 

Yours Sincerely,


----------



## Freestyler

Philippa C said:


> We got this by email. Positive sign that some banks are lending again.
> 
> "ADCB's Mortgage Services helps you in turning your dream into a reality the home of mortgage solutions.
> 
> · Get up to 85% LTV * Loan Period of 25years*Maximum Number of Developers. DXB & AUH""
> 
> 
> ·


whats the lending rate?


----------



## FARIBA

*HI ALL*

Has anyone elsse recieved an email from memom again regarding the insurance? 
last year when i got such request i told them i'm not interested and they left me alone finally but again
they are asking for it and they are saying is mandetorly for the first year for the amount of AED6000 i know this is beacause they don't have enough money but doesn't mean they can get away with these stuppied charges they have no mercey for investors .I belive memon is one of the rooless developer around and i wish i never had to deal with them again but i can't they have my money.hno:


----------



## Akasha

tonydubai said:


> Well I have paid my 2000 AED's and have a DSC receipt to prove it...!!! I think this OQOOD registration is a good thing and we should be happy that DSC are complying with this regulation. This can only be a positive thing for us owners.
> 
> On a different note, I am generally happy with the way that things are progressing, although I have to say that September for completion is acceptable but I will be gutted if its slips to a later date.


Well good for you Tony. However, I see it as a waste of money for some jobsworth to simply enter your details and give you a piece of paper with the same! Please, I'd go and do it myself. Also the properties are already registered - checked with both Land department and RERA. This is a stupid, unnecessary expense.

You're happy it'll be completed in September? I'm not that's nearly a 2 year delay with no compensation whatsoever.

You sound like you work for Sport city!


----------



## smussuw

^^ I think about 8.25% maybe


----------



## amplesou

Akasha said:


> Well good for you Tony. However, I see it as a waste of money for some jobsworth to simply enter your details and give you a piece of paper with the same! Please, I'd go and do it myself. Also the properties are already registered - checked with both Land department and RERA. This is a stupid, unnecessary expense.
> 
> y!


If you do it your self let us know how you get on !
I will do the same !:cheers:


----------



## Guest89

*Steel prices unlikely to stay high*

*Steel prices unlikely to stay high as global demand remains weak*









Image credit goes to source​

*A jump in steel prices at the start of 2010 looks hard to sustain as growth in global demand remains weak, industry officials and traders said at an Arab steel conference in Morocco.
*
Several top steel producers have announced price increases since the start of the year after a sharp rise in raw material costs such as iron ore and scrap metal.

But uncertainty over whether buyers grappling with big stockpiles will accept the price increase dogs the sector and analysts say a strong rebound in demand this year is unlikely.

Industry sources said Arab World steel consumption would grow 10 per cent this year on 2009's consumption of 41 million tonnes, as higher oil prices provide funds for transport infrastructure and housing projects.

But longer-term prospects remain uncertain, given customs barriers and a ramp-up in production by many local producers.

Many traders were expecting buyers in the world's top steel consumer China to re-enter the market after the Chinese new year in mid-February, helping support the higher prices, delegates at an the conference in Marrakesh said.

"It didn't happen," said Roberto Rubini, a regional manager at traders Coutinho and Ferrostaal.

"One reason for the rise in prices is raw material costs, but I think there was also a political move to boost the market. With no demand behind it, this kind of move is not useful."

Industry watchers suggested a lack of visibility over steel demand for the rest of the year, as industrialised nations grapple with tightening public finances, heavy debt and weak consumer demand.


_Read more from Source: Emirates Business 24/7_


----------



## bizzybonita

A gradual decline in rents and the stability of significant areas in other


*Real estate: a systematic change in the Dubai rental market*


Date: March 11, 2010

«Discovery Gardens» from areas of increased demand for housing there. Photo: Satish Kumar

Real estate, said that the real estate market in Dubai, is witnessing changes in methodology in the behavior of the staff, which impacts on the performance of the rental market, from both sides of the prices and deal between landlords and tenants.

The Real estate polled «Emirates Today» their views, that Dubai's property market is witnessing a gradual decline in rental prices in many parts of Dubai, with some areas experiencing remarkable stability.

They pointed out that the most important factors underlying the assessment of rental rate currently is the building site, design and residential units, quality construction, as well as other facilities it provides, arguing that the level of demand in the market to certain areas, enter an important factor in determining the price, as well as that the Real Estate Regulatory Agency of the Department of land and property in Dubai, rely Iijaria indicator reflects the market trends in Dubai.

They pointed out that rental prices in the surrounding areas «Tower Khalifa» and the «Dubai Marina» stable, especially with the entry of more units of residential real estate market, stressing that rental prices may see correction in some areas, specifically for the Properties is not completed in terms of providing of the facilities necessary for the population.

*Increasing demand*

And in detail, said chief executive of Asteco Real Estate, Elaine Jones, said that «areas such as (Jumeirah), and (Sheikh Zayed Road), and (Dubai Marina), and (Jumeirah Lakes Tower), and (Discovery Gardens), is one of the most important areas of increasing demand for housing which, while currently less demand on the older buildings in the regions (Bur Dubai), and (Deira) ».

She added that «the company monitored the cases of refusal of owners rent their units, did not want to reduce the rent, especially owners of real estate in the freehold areas», pointing out that «some estates remain vacant, for not taking a decision on the sale of the property, or accept leases at low prices».

She pointed out that «Dubai attracts residents from the neighboring emirates, for several reasons including the following: the level of infrastructure enjoyed by the emirate», referring to the «Back tenants moved from Dubai earlier, to live in the Northern Emirates, looking for a lower price, but decided to return now because of the availability of housing and low prices ».

She «On the other hand, benefit Dubai working in Abu Dhabi, and prefer to live in Dubai», pointing out that «is wrong to say that Dubai relies on the other Emirates in this regard, since it depends on the movement of market conditions».

Jones expected to become landlords and tenants more flexibility and a willingness to negotiate not only on prices, but on other matters within the scope of the contract, such as the start date of payment, and the number of checks and others.

She said that «in relation to sales, prices stabilized, but the two owners and their behavior, based on their financial position in relation to the sale of their properties or postpone it, hoping to get the best price».

*Oversupply*

For his part, head of research and studies in the company «CB Richard Ellis» Property Consultants, Matt Greene, said that «the number of units ready for occupation in Dubai has risen over the past year, due to increased supply with demand for housing in the emirate», expected to «display a little restless during the first half of this year, with the decline in some projects in the market».

He pointed out that «the rents have already reached the bottom of a number of projects around the central area of the business in Dubai, (such as Dubai Media City), and (TECOM), and some other luxury areas», pointing out that «some other secondary sites experiencing a surplus in supply , which will see a decline more, due to competition for tenants and competition to provide the best deals ».

He explained that «the most important areas of Dubai, which is increasing the demand for housing and rent, are (Dubai Marina), and the (Tower Khalifa), which is experiencing high levels of demand for apartments, as is still the central areas (such as Jumeirah), and (Umm Sequim) is important the demand for villas ».

Green noted that the «real estate owners are now more flexible to ensure tenants», pointing out that «there is an increase in the availability and diversity of the incentives offer, which usually ranged between flexible means of payment, to the residential units are fully furnished».

He stressed that «the owners are now more serious in their bids to attract tenants», describing it as «a clear reflection of the continued increase in supply, and continued weak demand in the market».

He added that «rents linked to domestic demand and the size of the display, this is the reason for the low unit prices in areas (such as Jumeirah Lake Towers)», pointing out that the «surplus and strong competition means that the tenants on the landlords to reduce rental rates, to avoid voids leases for long periods of time» .

He pointed out that «the expectations of owners changed slowly, as we are seeing conditions more realistic view of the housing units».

He said that «in the earlier onset of the crisis, some owners are maintained at not at all realistic, but there is a clear systematic change», pointing out that «the Dubai market benefited from the transition from other emirates, has contributed mostly to avoid a crisis much worse than that we fought, Transferring tenants from Abu Dhabi to Dubai contributed to the recovery of some central areas (such as Dubai Marina), where high-quality apartments, at prices less than the rent Abu Dhabi ».

*Vacant units*

Meanwhile the director of sales and leases to the company, Landmark Real Estate, Michael Michael, it «is not possible to calculate the number of vacant units in Dubai's property market and available for rent, because there is an angel offering the same housing unit for rent has a different number of real estate agencies».

He explained that «rental rates fell, and slowly decline during the year, with an increase in the number of units entering the luxury market, especially in areas with a higher demand in Dubai, which offers high-quality housing, like most coastal areas, and Sheikh Zayed Road».

He added that «With limited real estate activity is expected this year, investors will need to dominate the market demand», believing that the «sale prices and rents will continue to decline also against the backdrop of weak demand and oversupply».

Michael felt that «rents for apartments and offices in Dubai had not yet reached the bottom», adding that «villa prices settled to a large extent, but there is still a possibility of the volatility of prices again».

He pointed out that «the tenants are looking for value in terms of both quality of the residential unit, the nature and quality of construction, general location, or quality of the surrounding community», pointing out that «there are two factors essential to move the first request: A way of life, and the second affordability». He said that the «owners sometimes do not want to reduce rents, and this is not a new phenomenon, but we expect to see a decline in this behavior, especially with the owners of real estate freehold areas».


http://www.emaratalyoum.com/business/local/2010-03-11-1.67215


----------



## 234sale

smussuw said:


> ^^ I think about 8.25% maybe


^^ Now revised to 6.25 - 6.5%, HSBC, Rakbank and Standard Chartered.

Needs to be 4% to benifit house prices here.


----------



## Philippa C

Freestyler said:


> whats the lending rate?


"Competitive Interest Rate"


----------



## smussuw

Am still looking for an Islamic mortgage for building a house on a land that is granted by the government. I made some research and this is what I got !

The best option so far is ADCB offering 1.5 million at a reducing interest rate of 8.25% I think. Monthly payment of 18,500 for 10 years 14,500 for 15 years. I didn't ask for 20 and 25 years though. 

RAK Bank and Emirates NBD do not offer Islamic Solutions. 

Sharjah Islamic Bank, Ajman Islamic Bank, Abu Dhabi Islamic Bank and Al Hilal Bank don't finance building houses in land owned by the government. 

Noor Islamic Bank, HSBC Amanah and Dubai Bank only finance developers properties. 

Dubai Commercial Bank don't finance at all. 

Emirates Islamic Bank would finance up to 800,000 AED only.

The remaining options which I have to check are Mashreq Al Islami, Abu Dhabi National Islamic Finance, First Gulf Bank and Union National Bank.


----------



## bizzybonita

No protection for tenants who fail to register lease

*Tenants or landlords who fail to register their rental lease agreement online will not be protected by the law*, officials at Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) have warned.

All rent contracts for Dubai properties must now be registered through the Rera’s new Ejari online portal, the agency said in a statement.

“Landlords and tenants who fail to comply with the new ruling will find that their tenancy agreements fall outside the protection offered by the law, and government agencies and will not be able to enforce the provisions of the agreements they enter into,” the agency said.


Official website : http://www.ejari.ae ‘Ejari’ means ‘my rent’ in Arabic


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/583659-no-protection-for-tenants-who-fail-to-register-lease


----------



## Pleth

Smokeey said:


> Do you think the economy will remain stagnant until then or do you think we should be on the road to recovery by then? Interested to hear people's thoughts.


The economy? That should rely 33% on tourism?

I think bad publicity like putting people in prison for kissing will have a very bad impact on tourism, not to mention foreign companies setting up businesses in Dubai.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...otte-Adams-Ayman-Najafi-facing-jail-kiss.html


----------



## bizzybonita

*TENANCY EJARY CONTRACT *

http://www.ejari.ae/PublicPages/Downloads/Tenancy Contract Sample.pdf


----------



## Imre

*Dubai World to present debt restructuring plan soon: Ahmad*

Gulf News Report Published: 17:17 March 16, 2010 

Dubai: Dubai World will present a “fair plan” to restructure about $26 billion of debt as it needs the creditors and contractors for the long-term, Shaikh Ahmad Bin Saeed Al Maktoum, chairman of the Dubai Supreme Fiscal Committee and President of Dubai Civil Aviation Authority, told Bloomberg in an interview on Tuesday.

The restructuring proposal will be announced “very soon” and will be drawn up considering the long-term interests of the banks, contractors and Dubai, Shaikh Ahmad clarified.

“At the end of the day we need everybody, they need us also; we have projects that will be started in the near future for the long-term,” he said.

http://gulfnews.com/business/genera...t-debt-restructuring-plan-soon-ahmad-1.598623


----------



## dubaiprojects

bizzybonita said:


> No protection for tenants who fail to register lease
> 
> “Landlords and tenants who fail to comply with the new ruling will find that their tenancy agreements fall outside the protection offered by the law, and government agencies and will not be able to enforce the provisions of the agreements they enter into,” the agency said.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/583659-no-protection-for-tenants-who-fail-to-register-lease


What does it mean ".....protection offered by the law" (What protection is this?) when many already lost millions in real estate investments? 
Do they mean that if there is a dispute between the two parties, the court will decide based on the clauses of the contract? I think I did not quite follow, although it may be with good intention...

cheers


----------



## bizzybonita

Emaar hikes service fees by up to 46 per cent


*Emaar Properties has raised service fees for its communities in Arabian Ranches, The Meadows and Hattan by between 18 and 46 per cent in 2010 compared to 2009, while reducing it in The Springs community by 6.5 per cent*, Emirates Business has learnt.

Service fees in *Arabian Ranches* have been increased by 18 per cent to Dh1.78 per square foot of plot area in 2010 compared to Dh1.51 in 2009. During the same period, service charges in Hattan have gone up by 46 per cent to Dh1.81 per square foot from Dh1.24 per square foot.

In a circular, e-mailed to all *Meadow* owners, Emaar said: "After a thorough review of both, the 2009 costs and projected costs for 2010, community service fee rate for 2010 has been determined at Dh1.43 per square foot of plot area.

"We have experienced a challenging year due to the global financial crisis. Despite uncertainties in the market, we have striven to provide our owners and residents a quality service to ensure that the community retains its position as one of the most sought-after freehold communities in Dubai."
*
In Springs*, the developer has reduced service fees by 6.5 per cent to Dh2.03 per square foot from Dh2.17 in 2009.

Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Agency has already warned developers not to raise their maintenance fees, making it obligatory for developers to get their yearly budgets cleared from the agency. This newspaper reported earlier that secondary market prices of properties in the Springs have increased in the range of 11 to 33 per cent since the beginning of this year, while prices in the Meadows have surged in the range of 16 to 19 per cent in the same period. (With inputs from Anjana Kumar)

http://www.business24-7.ae/companie...-fees-by-up-to-46-per-cent-2010-03-16-1.68904


----------



## Manjit Singh

naukhez said:


> All,
> 
> I have just spoken to La Vista now, and the situation is not looking good at all. Project has been stopped for almost 4 months now, and the individual mentioned that they have applied for funding from the bank which has not come through. He mentioned, that even if they are able to resolve the funding situation by the end of this month, still it will take atleast 9 months - year to complete.
> 
> One bank has refused funding. They have applied to a new bank. This is a project of Al-Ghurair, and it is a shame what is happening. The penalty clause is applicable now based on the first payment plan, the penalty clause will be applicable in May 2010 based on the second payment plan.
> 
> We need to get more people to discuss this serious situation. I will be writing to them as well, and let us try to formulate a joint strategy.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Naukhez


Dear Naukhez,

can you please elaborate on the penalty clause. I was in their office on Sunday and had lengthy discussions about the project. What you have said is correct and they are struggling to get their finances sorted out. I was also told that probably they will consider building only 3 towers and acccomodate potential clients in those provided the funds are received from bank and construction starts again.
As you have said we need to collectively apply our thought process and I am willing to participate in that.

Warm regards

Manjit


----------



## gerald.d

Always amusing to see companies blaming a recession for increasing prices.


----------



## Spurs

*RERA*

I have been to RERA this morning. They said they will not discuss legal case for the investor. Investors need to go directly to the courts property section to file their case. I think maybe we are running around in circles here.


----------



## IEK

*Plantation Dubai*

Can anyone advise if they know anything about this project? Or do you know anyone who has invested in it - if so please aks them to get in touch with me.
I have many mnay millions invested in it and am getting nowhere with developer in jail, bank seizing the development and then doing nothing for last 18 mos. I am commencing legal action soon.


----------



## 234sale

^^ In never built section

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=151082


----------



## iownyou

IEK said:


> Can anyone advise if they know anything about this project? Or do you know anyone who has invested in it - if so please aks them to get in touch with me.
> I have many mnay millions invested in it and am getting nowhere with developer in jail, bank seizing the development and then doing nothing for last 18 mos. I am commencing legal action soon.


sorry man sorry to hear this


----------



## Freestyler

IEK said:


> Can anyone advise if they know anything about this project? Or do you know anyone who has invested in it - if so please aks them to get in touch with me.
> I have many mnay millions invested in it and am getting nowhere with developer in jail, bank seizing the development and then doing nothing for last 18 mos. I am commencing legal action soon.


welcome to the club :lol:


----------



## Freestyler

Anybody interested in buying 1-bed apartment let me know. It has very nice location, higher floor, corner apartment, facing lake and stadium. Very nice view.


----------



## Freestyler

The irony, this is what developers are calling 50% complete. One developer is bugging to pay up to 50% since they have completed 50% (just the foundation is complete, same level as in your picture) or they will keep all that I've paid. Completion of 2 floors they are calling the building 59% complete. :bash:



Imre said:


> What a rubbish
> 
> This is 40-50% ?
> 
> The Pad
> 
> 
> 
> The Binary


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai’s property market will recover by the end of 2011 as mortgages become easier to obtain and more people move to the city, according to the developer of a $4 billion hotel and residential project.

“Banks can’t stay away for long,” Santhosh Joseph, 45, founder and chief executive officer of Dubai Pearl, said in an interview. “They have to lend and, historically, most of this region’s lending goes into property.”

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...arket-to-recover-by-end-of-2011-update1-.html


----------



## 234sale

Freestyler said:


> The irony, this is what developers are calling 50% complete. One developer is bugging to pay up to 50% since they have completed 50% (just the foundation is complete, same level as in your picture) or they will keep all that I've paid. Completion of 2 floors they are calling the building 59% complete. :bash:


Just not possible as Tecom will give an exact statement of construction. 

Currently U-Bora towers is 50% complete as per Tecom.. and look at it..






The following is an approximation
Completion of shoring and piling is 5 -7% max
Add antother 3% for the Raft.
structural works approx = 60% / no of floors
cladding approx = 20% / no of floors
du certificate,dewa certificate,civil defense certificate, Tecom Completion Certificate = 10%

Tecom will give the developer a letter specifically mentioning the amount of completion. If a developer issues a cancellation letter, then the amount of completion at that point is considered.

The Binary is only 20-30% complete




The existing Article 11 concerned many developers in light of recent economic conditions. In addition, there has been considerable uncertainty regarding the application of the existing Article 11 to contracts entered into prior to 31 August 2008.

http://www.clydeco.com/knowledge/articles/dubai-real-estate-alert-dubai-law-13-amendment-issued.cfm
The amendment to Article 11 is intended to address these issues and uncertainties.

Amendment
Article 11 (as amended) will provide the following:

1.
Before taking any cancellation action, a developer must notify the Land Department if a purchaser is in default of a contract for sale. The Land Department will then give the purchaser a notice providing a 30 day period within which the purchaser must fulfil its obligations.

2.
If at the end of the 30 day notice period the purchaser has not fulfilled its obligations, the following rules will apply:

(a) Where the developer has completed construction of at least 80% of the project, the developer may retain all monies paid and request that the purchaser settle the remaining amounts. If this is not possible, the developer may request that the property be auctioned in order to collect the outstanding monies. 

(b) Where the developer has completed construction of at least 60% of the project, the developer may revoke the contract and retain 40% of the purchase price stipulated in the contract.

(c) Where construction has commenced but construction of less than 60% of the project has been completed, the developer may revoke the contract and retain 25% of the purchase price.

(d) Where construction of the project has not yet commenced for reasons beyond the developers control, without any negligence or omission on the developer’s part, the developer may revoke the contract and retain an amount equal to 30% of all monies paid by the purchaser. Commencement of ‘construction’ is defined as meaning handover of the site by the developer to a contractor and commencement of construction works in accordance with designs approved by relevant authorities



* Also you may also cancel, or instruct to cancel on a developer.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Two British holidaymakers facing a month in jail in Dubai for a kiss are the latest victims of the emirate's moral crackdown. The sentence is another sign of Dubai's drive to enforce Muslim values, at the risk of turning away the western tourists who fill its hotels. 

"Dubai is in danger of gaining a reputation as a place where you can be arrested for minor incidents," said Sean Tipton, a spokesperson for the Association of British Travel Agents, which represents more than 5000 travel operators in the U.K. "If this type of attitude continues, Dubai's tourism industry will be harmed." 

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100317-707842.html?mod=WSJ_World_MIDDLEHeadlinesEurope


----------



## smussuw

Calling it a moral crackdown when 99.9% of them get away with it is absurd ! :cheers:

I think a 500 AED fine would do the job though, no need to throw them in jail.


----------



## 234sale

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dubai’s property market will recover by the end of 2011 as mortgages become easier to obtain and more people move to the city, according to the developer of a $4 billion hotel and residential project.
> 
> “Banks can’t stay away for long,” Santhosh Joseph, 45, founder and chief executive officer of Dubai Pearl, said in an interview. “They have to lend and, historically, most of this region’s lending goes into property.”
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...arket-to-recover-by-end-of-2011-update1-.html


Executive Towers as an example.

2 bed Rent = 80,000 AED = 1,440 sqft
http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...utive-towers-2-bedroom-high-floor-above-20th/ 

Same unit to buy at 850AED sqft (if you can find one) = 1,224,000 AED

So lets say you have a 20% deposit and you can get a mortgage at 5%

Repayment over 25 years = 5,000 monthly = 60,000AED
Service Charge / Chiller Fees = 25,000 AED
Total 85,000 AED 
Plus agent fees / transfer fee. 

So great if rates go as low as 5%, but with 60,000 more units coming online just in that district alone until 2012. It is likely rents will continue to drop.

I expect by mid/end August 2010 the two bedroom will be found at 60,000AED inclusive of fee's

It wont be untill the end of 2012 when the supply tap stops, when demand may pick up as projects and Dubai starts it's development phase again.

I estimate we have over 600,000 residential freehold unit coming online by 2012. Let alone the number of local developments.

In 2003/2004 you could rent a large 2 bedroom on SZR for 60,000 , before the growth happend.


----------



## speculator

Dubai_Steve said:


> Two British holidaymakers facing a month in jail in Dubai for a kiss are the latest victims of the emirate's moral crackdown. The sentence is another sign of Dubai's drive to enforce Muslim values, at the risk of turning away the western tourists who fill its hotels.
> 
> "Dubai is in danger of gaining a reputation as a place where you can be arrested for minor incidents," said Sean Tipton, a spokesperson for the Association of British Travel Agents, which represents more than 5000 travel operators in the U.K. "If this type of attitude continues, Dubai's tourism industry will be harmed."
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100317-707842.html?mod=WSJ_World_MIDDLEHeadlinesEurope


We dont have the full facts !
Personally I like a good snog but prefer to keep it private & I find it utterly vulgar when viewed in public. 

I think they are taking the correct action.


----------



## noir-dresses

smussuw said:


> Calling it a moral crackdown when 99.9% of them get away with it is absurd ! :cheers:
> 
> I think a 500 AED fine would do the job though, no need to throw them in jail.


500 AED fine, and twelve pack of donut's for the police in charge, now that's a good deal.


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## DXBQuantum

234sale said:


> Executive Towers as an example.
> 
> 2 bed Rent = 80,000 AED = 1,440 sqft
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...utive-towers-2-bedroom-high-floor-above-20th/
> 
> Same unit to buy at 850AED sqft (if you can find one) = 1,224,000 AED
> 
> So lets say you have a 20% deposit and you can get a mortgage at 5%
> 
> Repayment over 25 years = 5,000 monthly = 60,000AED
> Service Charge / Chiller Fees = 25,000 AED
> Total 85,000 AED
> Plus agent fees / transfer fee.
> 
> So great if rates go as low as 5%, but with 60,000 more units coming online just in that district alone until 2012. It is likely rents will continue to drop.
> 
> I expect by mid/end August 2010 the two bedroom will be found at 60,000AED inclusive of fee's
> 
> It wont be untill the end of 2012 when the supply tap stops, when demand may pick up as projects and Dubai starts it's development phase again.
> 
> I estimate we have over 600,000 residential freehold unit coming online by 2012. Let alone the number of local developments.
> 
> In 2003/2004 you could rent a large 2 bedroom on SZR for 60,000 , before the growth happend.


I have seen one for 70,000 AED - 2 bedroom....!!! :nuts:


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## glover

"get away" with showing affection and love! do you realize how absurd this statement is!

but i agree with you, if Dubai insists on showing this much of hypocrisy and absurdity, then the maximum penalty should be a small fine with no need for court hearings and definitely no arrests.



smussuw said:


> Calling it a moral crackdown when 99.9% of them get away with it is absurd ! :cheers:
> 
> I think a 500 AED fine would do the job though, no need to throw them in jail.


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## cayman1

* Home
* Companies & Markets
* Real Estate

UAE developers repossess units
At least two firms have taken back units from defaulters who have failed to rectify their status.
By

* Anjana Kumar

Published Thursday, March 18, 2010

UAE developers repossess units. (AFP)

Repossessing a home part paid for is always an ugly process and developers in the UAE, who have taken the dire step, say they have done so only after being pushed into a cul-de-sac by errant owners.

Bonyan International and Cayan Development have already repossessed some units, while South Korea's Bando Construction is looking to take back a few units.

"We have given lots of grace time to our investors to pay up the outstanding amounts like six months to one year," said Kareem Derbas, CEO of Cayan.

"We have been sending notices to some customers for the past one year asking them to pay up.

"However, since the customer showed no signs of paying up and in order to ensure the continuity of the project, and keeping in mind the recession, we have terminated the contracts of those investors. We have gone through the entire process as regulated by Real Estate Regulatory Agency [Rera] to repossess the units."

He added: "Around 120 property units across a spectrum of our developments are going through the process with Rera in order for us to repossess them from our customers."

Bando Construction, which is developing the U-bora Tower in Business Bay, is also engaged in similar proceedings.

Ian Powell, Business Development Manager, Bando, said: "The cancellation process outlined by Rera, arising due to default of the buyer, is clear under the Law No 13.

"However, we are continuing to give adequate time for a solution to be derived for the investor."


Hope who don't paylose all !


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## Freestyler

The developer is in sports city, any how, I'll tell them that they can only keep 25%.



234sale said:


> Just not possible as Tecom will give an exact statement of construction.
> 
> Currently U-Bora towers is 50% complete as per Tecom.. and look at it..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following is an approximation
> Completion of shoring and piling is 5 -7% max
> Add antother 3% for the Raft.
> structural works approx = 60% / no of floors
> cladding approx = 20% / no of floors
> du certificate,dewa certificate,civil defense certificate, Tecom Completion Certificate = 10%
> 
> Tecom will give the developer a letter specifically mentioning the amount of completion. If a developer issues a cancellation letter, then the amount of completion at that point is considered.
> 
> The Binary is only 20-30% complete
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The existing Article 11 concerned many developers in light of recent economic conditions. In addition, there has been considerable uncertainty regarding the application of the existing Article 11 to contracts entered into prior to 31 August 2008.
> 
> http://www.clydeco.com/knowledge/articles/dubai-real-estate-alert-dubai-law-13-amendment-issued.cfm
> The amendment to Article 11 is intended to address these issues and uncertainties.
> 
> Amendment
> Article 11 (as amended) will provide the following:
> 
> 1.
> Before taking any cancellation action, a developer must notify the Land Department if a purchaser is in default of a contract for sale. The Land Department will then give the purchaser a notice providing a 30 day period within which the purchaser must fulfil its obligations.
> 
> 2.
> If at the end of the 30 day notice period the purchaser has not fulfilled its obligations, the following rules will apply:
> 
> (a) Where the developer has completed construction of at least 80% of the project, the developer may retain all monies paid and request that the purchaser settle the remaining amounts. If this is not possible, the developer may request that the property be auctioned in order to collect the outstanding monies.
> 
> (b) Where the developer has completed construction of at least 60% of the project, the developer may revoke the contract and retain 40% of the purchase price stipulated in the contract.
> 
> (c) Where construction has commenced but construction of less than 60% of the project has been completed, the developer may revoke the contract and retain 25% of the purchase price.
> 
> (d) Where construction of the project has not yet commenced for reasons beyond the developers control, without any negligence or omission on the developer’s part, the developer may revoke the contract and retain an amount equal to 30% of all monies paid by the purchaser. Commencement of ‘construction’ is defined as meaning handover of the site by the developer to a contractor and commencement of construction works in accordance with designs approved by relevant authorities
> 
> 
> 
> * Also you may also cancel, or instruct to cancel on a developer.


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## Freestyler

234sale said:


> The following is an approximation
> Completion of shoring and piling is 5 -7% max
> Add antother 3% for the Raft.
> structural works approx = 60% / no of floors
> cladding approx = 20% / no of floors
> du certificate,dewa certificate,civil defense certificate, Tecom Completion Certificate = 10%


The one I'm talking about is in DSC. They sent me a letter which appears to be a letter from RERA with construction milestones. It goes like this:
15% Booking.
15% 3 months.
10% Completion of Shoring and excavation.
5% Foundation work
5% Completion of Basement.
6% 2nd slab structure.


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## mackie1964

smussuw said:


> Calling it a moral crackdown when 99.9% of them get away with it is absurd ! :cheers:
> 
> *I think a 500 AED fine would do the job though, no need to throw them in jail*.


Finally, a voice of reason :applause::applause::applause:

A member of my family has been contracting major hotels for Holiday companies for many years and she fears the worse for Dubai, if this does not get contained :cheers:


----------



## Morrismarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> Two British holidaymakers facing a month in jail in Dubai for a kiss are the latest victims of the emirate's moral crackdown. The sentence is another sign of Dubai's drive to enforce Muslim values, at the risk of turning away the western tourists who fill its hotels.
> 
> "Dubai is in danger of gaining a reputation as a place where you can be arrested for minor incidents," said Sean Tipton, a spokesperson for the Association of British Travel Agents, which represents more than 5000 travel operators in the U.K. "If this type of attitude continues, Dubai's tourism industry will be harmed."
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100317-707842.html?mod=WSJ_World_MIDDLEHeadlinesEurope


It's amazing that you can't have a kiss in public yet the place is full of hookers !! :lol:


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## AltinD

^^ They don't kiss in public


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## True Blue

smussuw said:


> Calling it a moral crackdown when 99.9% of them get away with it is absurd ! :cheers:
> 
> I think a 500 AED fine would do the job though, no need to throw them in jail.


^^:applause:

A system of on the spot fines would keep these stories out of the headlines and prevent all the undoing of the good work of the tourist marketing campaigns.

I tihnk the fact that the male was on a resident/work visa, had a part to play in the attitude of the Police. Had they both been tourists on a short holiday visit, it would have been likely that they would have been returned to their hotels with an explanation of their crime and a warning.

On the spot fines is the best way to deal with expat missdemeanors and keeping the press sharks at bay.


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## Pleth

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dubai’s property market will recover by the end of 2011 as mortgages become easier to obtain and more people move to the city, according to the developer of a $4 billion hotel and residential project.
> 
> “Banks can’t stay away for long,” Santhosh Joseph, 45, founder and chief executive officer of Dubai Pearl,


I think not! Why would anybody buy here if they can't get visa's? 
And with all the people that has been cheated by scam developers so far!? No hno:
Dubai is not a safe land to invest in. RERA is not helping the investors.


----------



## High Times

Dubai_Steve said:


> Two British holidaymakers facing a month in jail in Dubai for a kiss are the latest victims of the emirate's moral crackdown. The sentence is another sign of Dubai's drive to enforce Muslim values


He should of pleaded not guilty on the grounds that someone had drugged him and he was not in control of his actions. There is case law to support this defence in the UAE apparantly.


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## Pleth

DXBQuantum said:


> I have seen one for 70,000 AED - 2 bedroom....!!! :nuts:


Where did you see this?


----------



## Freestyler

Pleth said:


> Where did you see this?


JLT


----------



## AltinD

True Blue said:


> I tihnk the fact that the male was on a resident/work visa, had a part to play in the attitude of the Police. Had they both been tourists on a short holiday visit, it would have been likely that they would have been returned to their hotels with an explanation of their crime and a warning.


Very true, my boss has been stopped twice here driving a rental, both times after a few drinks and he was simply let go the first time. Second time he got a fine and the police wanted to confiscate the car for a week (or maybe it was more) cause I think he jumped a u-turn red light. I remember (it was years ago) me and a representative of the rent-a-car co went to the traffic department a few days later and finally convinced the chief about the confiscating thing. 

BTW, I've never been stopped by the police in my 210 - 220,000 km of driving here.


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## Philippa C

True Blue;53632177
I tihnk the fact that the male was on a resident/work visa said:


> Also he was Muslim so that must have played a role too in prosecuting him for drinking. I was at the airport last night and there was plenty of hugging & kissing going on in front of the police as people arrived. I reckon the couple involved were doing more than "kissing on the cheeK" for it to get this far. The people involved and those reading the story should show a bit more common sense.


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## 234sale

Freestyler said:


> The one I'm talking about is in DSC. They sent me a letter which appears to be a letter from RERA with construction milestones. It goes like this:
> 15% Booking.
> 15% 3 months.
> 10% Completion of Shoring and excavation.
> 5% Foundation work
> 5% Completion of Basement.
> 6% 2nd slab structure.


The amount construction as per Tecom who observe it, these are the percentages.
So even upto where completion of foundation work, this would only be 12% of construction of the building.

The payment plan is linked to the construction schedules on some projects, but Tecom know how much actual construction as a percentage is completed. This percentage is different from the developers payment plan. Though construction milestones can be used as equilvents. 

I can tell you that developers who are building will wait and cancel immediately any defaulters if construction as per Tecom goes over 80%. As the investor will lose everything paid. 

I don't think your developer knows the law, see PM


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## Philippa C

"Hundreds of British expats stage march in Malaga over plans to demolish 'illegal' holiday homes"


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...lish-illegal-holiday-homes.html#ixzz0iX1diVbi

Imagine the headline in the British press if it were happening in Dubai!


----------



## Morrismarina

AltinD said:


> ^^ They don't kiss in public


No but they walk around hotel lobbies touting for business, infront of families and very little is done ?? :weird:


----------



## AltinD

Philippa C said:


> Imagine the headline in the British press if it were happening in Dubai!


British? How about British, Irish, American, Australian, Canadian, French, German, Dutch, Italian, Spanish, Swiss, New Zealander, Trinidad Tabago ... and even Greek.


----------



## Morrismarina

Philippa C said:


> "Hundreds of British expats stage march in Malaga over plans to demolish 'illegal' holiday homes"
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...lish-illegal-holiday-homes.html#ixzz0iX1diVbi
> 
> Imagine the headline in the British press if it were happening in Dubai!


Ok I've imagined it, the headline would read:

*Hundreds of British expats stage march in Dubai over plans to demolish 'illegal' holiday homes* :lol:


----------



## DXBQuantum

Pleth said:


> Where did you see this?



Executive Towers !!


----------



## AltinD

Morrismarina said:


> No but they walk around hotel lobbies touting for business, infront of families and very little is done ?? :weird:


You can say not enough, but 'very little'??? 

You don't know what 'very little' mean. You haven't seen hundreds of them "staging marches" in parking lots and roadsides. :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

smussuw said:


> Calling it a moral crackdown when 99.9% of them get away with it is absurd ! :cheers:
> 
> I think a 500 AED fine would do the job though, no need to throw them in jail.


I agree with your comments. Can you use your influence in the police to see this is done instead in future please.  Dubai could do without the negative press at the moment, besides the cost in keeping them in jail.


----------



## Imre

*TASWEEK Real Estate Marketing & Development study outlines future drivers for UAE property market*

*Location, quality, amenities, infrastructure with competitive financing solutions among key factors*

March 16, 2010

Tasweek Real Estate Marketing & Development, a property adviser and solutions provider in the Middle East, recently used its own operational model to analyze current trends, conditions and future industry drivers within the UAE real estate market as 2010 unfolds, with particular focus on Abu Dhabi and Dubai. Tasweek based its study on the core criteria of Trust / Transparency, Affordability, and Return on Investment with Operating Cash Flows. The results are as follows:

*Abu Dhabi*

Abu Dhabi is expected to record strong growth in both GDP and population, with leading local, regional and global companies to scramble for growth opportunities by shifting capacity to the Capital. This is also echoed by many reports that with the gradual improvement in economic conditions, new blue chip companies entering the market, with its newly-completed high standard office stock, will help lift the prices of truly Grade A office and residential stock. 

On one hand, supply-demand statistics favor Abu Dhabi. This is owing to the greater availability of mortgage financing and a short to medium term supply-demand mismatch, coupled with a structured pace of development and a move towards greater economic liberalization which will lead to economic growth and an increase in its population. 

On the other hand, though, Abu Dhabi needs progressive transparency and regulation in the property market, which will be instrumental to its success in certain developments. 

Tasweek believes investments in Real Estate should be made in Abu Dhabi for the longer term as it offers very low risk and steady returns for the future.

*Residential *

There is no doubt that there is an undersupply in housing in Abu Dhabi. Figures from Tasweek research show a fluctuation of as low as 22,000 to as high as 32,000 units. There is also a discrepancy as to how many units will be delivered over the next two years as they start at 15,500 units and end at 23,000 units.

Transactional activity remained very weak in 2009 as expected in Abu Dhabi and there is very low demand for off-plan properties. It is extremely clear that substantial activity in the future will be made via private equity groups and large institutional investors looking for conservative but higher than usual yields.

Average apartment price also retreated by 40% to 50% from their peak. Average rents for new leases have further lost an estimated 20% from their highs in 2008 to the end of 2009. 

*Commercial *

The next two years are expected to see 6.2million sqft of net leasable area of grade A commercial offices reaching the Abu Dhabi market. The current stock of offices remains not purpose-built; there is, for example, a need more parking facilities and adequate services. Supply of new office space in the capital remained limited during 2009, with occupancy rates staying in the 95-98% range. Nevertheless both rental rates on new leases and asset values retreated 15-20% and 35-40% respectively, as the market made a relative adjustment to neighboring Dubai. 

*Dubai*

Dubai’s growth is underpinned by its very large infrastructure investment and the city’s positioning, which makes it accessible to neighboring economies. The silver lining is the relocation of expatriates working within the UAE and the slight growth in the mortgage activity as more end-users arrive in the market. 
The drop in the UAE’s interbank borrowing benchmark rate has so far done little to spur mortgage financing that banks offer to their customers for home loans. When this passes on to consumers or investors then a change in the market can be expected. The passing of stability and transparency in the maintenance costs to end-users and investors significantly affect their mortgage or their rental yield. 
Tasweek believes real estate investments should be made in Dubai for the few who clearly understand the market and are in a position to carry out rigorous due diligence and securitize their capital and future income. This provides a platform for reaping great rewards in 3-5 years down the line when transparency returns to the market.
The economic recovery does paint a cautious picture for Dubai’s residential market in the near to medium term when rising supply, if uncontrolled, may hamper price recovery.

*Residential *

The projections on supply and demand that went to print during the start and at the end of the 3rd quarter in 2009 were in the range of 22,400 to 32,000 coming to the market by the end of 2009. These numbers were further revised in 2010 to approximately 17,000 units that were completed in 2009, bringing the total residential stock to around 273,000. A further 24,000 units are expected to be completed in 2010. It is interesting that the detailed analysis of Dubai's projects, construction progress, and handover activity revealed that 2010 could perhaps see an even greater number of deliveries than 2009, rendering deliveries for the year among the highest since the construction boom. 
There will be more transactional activity where completed projects have adequate infrastructure with facilities such as road networks, retail, school and medical facilities. Mortgage facilities, registration of owners’ association, and REITs entering the market are expected to further fuel transactional activity in the coming years.
There were signs of price stabilization in Q409 which could be the beginning of a price floor. However, this is highly dependent on macroeconomic, financial, regulatory, and industry policies and trends.

*Commercial *

It is estimated that 2010 will see the delivery of another 6.8 million sq ft of office space. Despite project delays and cancellations, there seems to be a further 2.8 million sqft slated for 2011 delivery. To absorb the supply delivered in 2009, Dubai’s economy must generate 85,000-90,000 new office jobs. Based on the office-consuming share of total employment and the rate of expatriate economic activity, this rate of office sector job creation will require a full increase in population and employment at different sectors. 

*Conclusion*

Abu Dhabi and Dubai’s futures have been more intertwined as of late; this has had a price-stabilizing effect in Dubai and has reduced average rent prices in Abu Dhabi. The rent differential between the two has resulted in a significant proportion of cross-emirate migration. If this trend continues then it will exert further downward pressure on prices and rents in Abu Dhabi, at least narrowing the difference between the two in the medium term. 

The key drivers for apartment, office and retail prices in the UAE for the future will be location, quality of construction, community facilities, completed infrastructure, and availability of competitive financing solutions. Critical elements for more transactional activity, on the other hand, include affordability, return on investment, and trust-worthy exchange partners.
Prices seem to be stabilizing and even increasing in selected areas where lifestyle communities are offered along with easy access to retail, leisure, education and entertainment. All in all, 2010 is expected to play out as a crucial period for determining the real estate industry’s direction as the world pursues post-crisis recovery.

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/03/tasweek-real-estate-marketing.html


----------



## Freestyler

I'm selling @ 30% discount.


----------



## smussuw

Dubai_Steve said:


> I agree with your comments. Can you use your influence in the police to see this is done instead in future please.  Dubai could do without the negative press at the moment, besides the cost in keeping them in jail.


Dubai Police is an executive body, not a legislator.


----------



## Freestyler

Size 975
OP 1,115,255.00 
Discount 30% 
Discounted price 780,678.50


----------



## True Blue

^^Just put a notice up in the locker room then, that should do it


----------



## speculator

Morrismarina said:


> Ok I've imagined it, the headline would read:
> 
> *Hundreds of British expats stage march in Dubai over plans to demolish 'illegal' holiday homes* :lol:


No thats too soft :

*Thousands of British expats scammed : holiday homes to be demolished !*


----------



## speculator

Philippa C said:


> I reckon the couple involved were doing more than "kissing on the cheeK" for it to get this far. The people involved and those reading the story should show a bit more common sense.


Thats spot on & what I said earlier when I mentioned we don't have the full facts.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ hey don't post those big fake headlines here you'll give me a heart attack!


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai Property Law 13 on the way*

§ The Regulations make it clear that a developer needs to only submit an application to register units under Article (3)(2) of Law 13 within the specified time in order to comply with the registration requirements. Applications made outside this time will still be registered but a fine of AED10,000 will be levied.

§ Developers cannot sell off-plan before taking possession (which includes actual control of the land) and only after obtaining the site location plan along with all necessary approvals from the competent authorities for the project.

§ Parking lots must be registered along with the purchasers' units.

§ The developer cannot refuse to transfer units if the purchaser has fulfilled his contractual obligations even if the purchaser owes other financial obligations not arising out of the particular sales contract.

§ Developers who wish to sell using real estate brokers must conclude a contract with a registered broker and have that contract registered with the DLD.

§ Sales of units in projects that have not been fully approved by the authorities are void.

§ Where brokers market all or part of the project the broker must place all sums received against the purchase price for the unit in the escrow account and cannot deduct monies for brokerage until after payment into the escrow account. Any contract that allows otherwise shall be void.

§ The DLD has the authority to act as a mediation service for disputes between developers and purchasers.

§ Further clarity is given on the procedures for terminating purchasers. Developers appear to now be able to send their own termination notices (i.e. not through the DLD) provided they copy the notice to the DLD. A developer does not need to sell at public auction if he completes more than 80% of the project and may elect to terminate the contract and retain up to 40% of the purchase price.

§ A developer can only rescind a contract with a purchaser where construction has not started provided the developer proves he has fulfilled all his contractual obligations and proves the project was not initiated due to causes beyond his control and the failure was not due to his negligence.

§ Leveling and infrastructure works are evidence that a developer has started a project.

§ A developer may make use of or let a unit to a third party if the unit is not auctioned subject to the developer repaying any balance sums due to the defaulting purchaser in accordance with the timeframes set out in the Regulations.

§ A purchaser can request the courts to rescind a contract in the following cases:
(i) if the developer refuses to deliver the contract for the unit without any justifiable reason;
(ii) if the developer does not bind payments to construction based milestones as approved by the DLD;
(iii) if the developer significantly changes the specifications agreed in the contract;
(iv) if the unit is proved to be unusable due to major structural defects;
(v) in any other cases applicable under general legal rules.

§ For the purposes of the Regulations causes beyond the control of a developer include:
(i) the plot on which the project is to be built is re-possessed for public interest;
(ii) if a government authority stops the project for re-planning;
(iii) if excavations or service networks are found in the project's location;
(iv) if the master developer modifies the project's location in a way that prevents the sub-developer from executing its obligations;
(v) any other causes as deemed by the DLD.

§ Negligence by a developer includes:
(i) delay in taking handover of the plot and obtaining necessary approvals from the competent authorities without any reason;
(ii) sub-developer sells off plan without obtaining permission from the master developer;
(iii) delays in obtaining written approval for plans and designs;
(iv) delays in preparation of the project for actual construction works;
(v) not providing the DLD with necessary information required to approve the project;
(vi) non registration of project with DLD;
(vii) non disclosure of the project's financial data to the DLD;
(vii) any other causes as deemed by the DLD.

§ The DLD can cancel a project on the basis of a technical report in the following cases:
(i) the developer does not initiate construction without justifiable cause after obtaining the required approvals;
(ii) the developer breaches Dubai Law 8 of 2007 (the Escrow Law);
(iii) the DLD finds the developer not serious about constructing the project;
(iv) the land on which the project is to be built is re-possessed due to breach by the sub-developer of its contractual obligations towards the master developer;
(v) the land on which the project is to be built is affected by planning and re-planning projects by Dubai authorities;
(vi) the developer fails to commence the project due to gross negligence;
(vii) the developer declares its intention not to commence the project for reasons acceptable by the DLD;
(vii) the developer declares bankruptcy;
(viii) any other causes as deemed by the DLD.

§ A developer can appeal the DLD's decision to cancel a project within seven days of being notified by the DLD.

§ If the balance in the trust account is insufficient to satisfy the purchasers' rights, the developer shall repay the outstanding sums to the purchaser within 60 days of cancellation unless an extension is granted by the DLD.

§ If a developer fails to repay the sums to purchasers in cases of project cancellation, then the DLD has the authority to take necessary steps to protect purchasers' rights including referring the matter to competent judicial authorities.

Additional notes from Hadef & Partners:

"The Regulations whilst providing some much needed clarity over many issues also throws up some interesting characteristics such as reinforcing the wide degree of power and discretion the DLD holds in respect of projects.

It is also still not clear how the DLD will approach situations where a purported termination of a purchaser is met with resistance and/or whether the DLD will remove an interest in the interim register without a court order where a legitimate dispute has arisen. Further clarity may also be needed where a bankruptcy event occurs as to how exactly the interim registered interests will be treated as far as priority is concerned in the bankruptcy situation."


----------



## TerryPop

*Offices in JLT*

Just come from a meet up with a mate who has quite a few office units in JLT.

Here's the real problem according to her and her Hubbie:

If you are hoping to rent out your office your tenant faces many many obstacles.

For starters all offices are handed over core and shell:

*So tenant faces fit out:*

Ceilings and floors fitted out on the cheap are abt 50-100 aed per square foot in cost.

So they are facing 50,000 aed minimum on a 1,000 square foot office.

Then the fees to get your fit out ok'd are in excess of 15,000 aed per office.

(6000 dirhams alone for DEWA connection).

Firefighting- if your tenants want to partition the office think 7000-10000 aed extra for approval and additional sprinklers etc.

So to do the *fit out* you could be facing *50k +15K +7K per office.
*

Thats the first problem.


The second is getting licensed from the DMCC itself :bash:


Now the first year license fees is over *30,000 aed* apparently.

Add to that additional land dept charges of *5-10,000 dirhams *and a lengthy process to approval of the license itself (the time alone may put your tenant off).


So far the tenant is facing charges of well over 100,000 aed to get set up in a small 1,000 square foot office.

Finally you have to charge them some form of rent.


The problem is there are many investors who bought offices at well over 1200 aed per square foot.

They have to pay service charges of say, 14 aed per square foot.

Unless these offices have a tenant in them they are therefore a cost, a liability.


And worse still , every agent my friends spoke to has people desperate to move in and rent offices in JLT.... the cost and admin has completely killed the market.

There is nowhere for this to go but down further as more supply comes onto the market.



My only point is that its a real shame to kill a prime area like this, there could be a fast developing community forming in JLT.


Someone somewhere sort it out- Dubai is not tax free with costs like these.

:lol:


----------



## Imre

TerryPop said:


> My only point is that its a real shame to kill a prime area like this, there could be a fast developing community forming in JLT.
> 
> 
> Someone somewhere sort it out- Dubai is not tax free with costs like these.
> 
> :lol:


Maybe the government want just empty towers there , this is the target now


----------



## Imre

Another rubbish:

*Business Bay to be new business capital of Dubai*

KM properties CEO believes this is the new place to be

By Aya Lowe, Staff Reporter
Published: 00:00 March 19, 2010

Dubai : With buildings due to be completed and handed over in the next two years, Business Bay is set to be Dubai's new business hub, according to Sanjeet Joher, group chief executive officer of KM Properties.

"Once Business Bay is done, you'll have the global focus changing towards that area. Business Bay is a prime epicentre for Dubai. All the tourist centres, businesses and authorities are focusing on Business Bay," Joher told Gulf News.

Business Bay is a 5.85 million square metre development featuring a mixture of office and residential towers. The freehold development located next to Shaikh Zayed road and Downtown Burj Khalifa area, aims to be the region's business capital once complete.

The infrastructure, prices and lack of taxes are some of the incentives that will attract new businesses to setting up shop in the area. According to Joher, the natural shift of Dubai's centre will occur as established commercial areas become full.

Relocation

"We see a trend that everyone working in the Deira, Bur Dubai area will be looking to relocate to Business Bay in the future as the area becomes over saturated. There's already a huge demand for Business Bay," says Joher.

*KM Property currently has three buildings under construction in Business Bay, Tamani Hotel at Park Lane Office Tower, B2B Office Tower and Tamani Arts Offices all at various stages of construction.

The buildings are set to be completed in the next year and a half to two years to coincide with the completion of infrastructure in the Business Bay development.*

"The infrastructure in Business Bay is being built in phases. The chillers, electricity, water, etc will fall in place and be finished at the same time as the handing of our projects. We are working closely with infrastructure authorities, RERA and the Land Department to ensure our clients get the product at the right time with all the facilities," says Joher.

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/business-bay-to-be-new-business-capital-of-dubai-1.599898


----------



## dubaimat

Imre said:


> Another rubbish:


and another one :cheers:

Airline pair jailed over sex texting

DUBAI // Two Emirates Airline cabin crew have been jailed for three months for exchanging lewd text messages.

RS, 42, a flight attendant, and EB, 47, a cabin services supervisor, were convicted of “coercion to commit sin” after sending each other sexually themed SMS messages, according to court documents released yesterday.

The pair, both Indian, were sentenced to six months in prison and deportation by the Dubai Court of Misdemeanors in December.

The court said the texts “fulfilled all the necessary angles of coercion to the commitment of sin”. 

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100317/NATIONAL/703169807/1678/pollarchive


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Is that the new stimulus package?

The number of tourists to Dubai fell 5.7 percent in the third quarter of 2009, compared to the same period the previous year, the latest figures show.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/584086-dubai-plans-cost-friendly-packages-to-woo-tourists---paper


Dubai’s Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DTCM) has launched a stimulus package for its tourism industry to attract and maintain its visitor numbers over the summer, according to a report.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/584086-dubai-plans-cost-friendly-packages-to-woo-tourists---paper


----------



## Philippa C

dubaimat said:


> and another one :cheers:
> 
> Airline pair jailed over sex texting
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100317/NATIONAL/703169807/1678/pollarchive


This one has to be taken in context too. It was the husband of the woman in the above case who reported the matter to the police as they've been involved in a custody battle over their son since 2007. It was like the case where the husband reported his wife to the police and she and her boyfriend were caught leaving a hotel. We haven't reached the stage where peoples' phones are being randomly checked for content!


----------



## Jondubai

HI, what have they written in the final notice that was sent to you? Are they asking for a complete payment or for you to just reach like 70%-80%? Do they mention you would loose your money if you didn't continue to make payments?


----------



## dsc_investor

tonydubai said:


> Well I have paid my 2000 AED's and have a DSC receipt to prove it...!!! I think this OQOOD registration is a good thing and we should be happy that DSC are complying with this regulation. This can only be a positive thing for us owners.
> 
> On a different note, I am generally happy with the way that things are progressing, although I have to say that September for completion is acceptable but I will be gutted if its slips to a later date.


Sept 2010...Dream on!!!
All I can say is that you must got a helluva deal on your unit to be happy?!! Have you considered what you would get compared to what they promised you. Look at the model and then see whats on the ground?!
You, me and all investors bought into Dubai Sports City not just CRW! Mark my words the full vision of DSC will not materialise until 2020 if you and I are lucky!!! which going by my past record in UAE property market is not an option you should bet on Tony!


----------



## Jondubai

dsc_investor said:


> Jondubai - Have you met up with any lawyer to discuss the case yet. I know it is difficult but we need to do something!


Hi  I haven't met up with any lawyer as everytime i even think of it i feel that maybe i should give them the benefit of the doubt and i think since the whole world came to a standstill a while ago, it must be tough. The money i have invested in this project is like a big chuck of what im worth and i cant really take any risks with it whatsoever. So dunno what to do but to hopefully get what i set out to get. :bash:


----------



## dsc_investor

Jondubai said:


> HI, what have they written in the final notice that was sent to you? Are they asking for a complete payment or for you to just reach like 70%-80%? Do they mention you would loose your money if you didn't continue to make payments?


Jondubai- its a one page letter from their Legal Dept, mentions that this is the 3rd and final letter! ( I never rec'd the previous two!!)
They are asking for an amount not mentioning % I think from the value it is abt 70%.
Then they say, failure to pay with 15 days blah blah blah...it will result in terminartion of the SPA as per law 13/2008. The twats also reserve THEIR rights to claim all legal costs!!
Notice...THEIR rights...we investors have no rights!


----------



## dsc_investor

Do you know if anyone in the forum has ever met up? If not then maybe we should and see how many of us poor suckers there are here in UAE. I met up with a few lawyers and the costs here are prohibitive for an individual. 
Other developers in UAE like EMAAR and Sorouh are giving discounts of upto 30%, or options to merge / consolidate units.. these buggers are able to get away with it. Hold onto our hard earned cash for years and then have the gall to send finakl payment notices!!!


----------



## amplesou

dsc_investor said:


> Ali Syed... Are you stupid??? Are you even an investor?? maybe you are a DSC employee!!!!


You can,t say that aganst ali Syed !
He,s nice and well its a bit like insulting the pope 
you just don,t do it !:nuts:
Ali has 2 aparments in crw if you look back you will see this !
say sorry :cheers:


----------



## dsc_investor

paddyh said:


> Hi Amplesou
> 
> You seem well clued in on what is happeing in CRW. Fair play to you. I have not been to Dubai in almost 4 years when I agreed to purchase apartment in Venetian Tower. I am having regrets that I ever went out because of delays and the uncertainty over being able to lease out my apartment.
> 
> How difficult do you believe it will be to rent out and what is the likely rental return that I might expect to gain?


Hi Paddyh
I am sure Amplesou is a DSC mole... he seems to be able to get photos an disseminates all the info so efficiently!
Are you British ? in Uk ? have you tried legal action from UK?


----------



## dsc_investor

amplesou said:


> You can,t say that aganst ali Syed !
> He,s nice and well its abit like insulting the pope
> you just don,t do it !:nuts:
> Ali has 2 aparments in crw if yo look back you will see this !


Wow I am so sorry AS.
Im just angry that my hard earned money has been wasted on these jokers in this project. I have met these DSC friends of ours and beleive me they couldnt manage a piss up in a brewery! You have too much faith...I wonder why????


----------



## amplesou

dsc_investor said:


> Sling your hook somewhere else Altin!!!!


Dear altind i know you banned me for suggesting imre was something or other
which i thought was a bit hard at the time but i have learned my leason and i think you are just great !
you take no nonsense from me or anybody right ???:lol:


----------



## dubaimat

Imre said:


> *Shaikhani Developments aims to leverage stability of the region’s real estate market*
> 
> just wondering,
> 
> 1) since when do you believe in such media hype? Why are they really changing their name?
> 
> 2) Memon Group of Companies/Shaikhani, Schon Properties, Rufi and others, in general it is highly advisable not to know anything about their and/or their funds origin, any special reason to promote the first one here?
> 
> 3) was this eventually an ironic posting, who is not *aiming to leverage stability of the region’s real estate market*?:cheers:


----------



## Rob Timpie

tysonM said:


> OH so you got good ideas of pricing. You are on so many threads, who the h... you are.
> 
> I am trying to find you, and soon will get hold of you. And make sure all your properties if so have, must be seized.
> 
> Most of you are working against the whole of UAE. You all watch out. sooner or later you all will see the results.


Take your pills and stay away from these threads, Tyson.
You have nothing to contribute and you're not making any friends up here... hno:


----------



## mrobbie

Can someone provide the costs that are associated with selling an apartment in Dubai. When buying it was 1 cost after the other, then 2 years later got stung with mortgage resistration out of the blue.

Some understanding up front would be ideal!

I think there are;

agents fees (buyer/negotiable - 2-3%)
developer fees (used to be 1.5%, now 5000 AED with Nakheel?)
lands department (2%?)
mortgage deregistration - no idea how much this is
developer clearance letter - again, no idea, but this is the letter to say service charges etc are all paid?

Clarification would be much appreciated

Cheers


----------



## noir-dresses

http://www.business24-7.ae/economy/...arrive-in-dubai-per-month-2010-03-31-1.100808

Dubai say's they are getting 10,000 new resident's a month. You got to love the number's, we have nothing to worry about, and all those new unit's that will come out in the market will all be occupied. 

Ya rite


----------



## cayman1

hi i need to know if my contracts are registred in DLD how can i do ?


----------



## Spurs

noir-dresses said:


> http://www.business24-7.ae/economy/...arrive-in-dubai-per-month-2010-03-31-1.100808
> 
> Dubai say's they are getting 10,000 new resident's a month. You got to love the number's, we have nothing to worry about, and all those new unit's that will come out in the market will all be occupied.
> 
> Ya rite


I agree its rubbish, but i must say i was on JBR beach last weekend and i can honestly say it was PACKED down there. Never seen it so busy!


----------



## hempig

*dsc in general*

Hi there have been looking at forum for a while now having been an investor for over 4 years and can understand your frustration at delays etc, but if you look back two years to what the site was i think you will find that the amount of construction that has happened is quite amazing, a patch of sand to an up and coming social area all these things take time and going to media, while appeasing your anger, wont really help anyones cause especially other investors in buildings finished or on there way as crw is, just to let you know i am an investor and my building is still not started yet so i have no hidden agenda apart from seeing my apartment in the building i bought finished asap but am hopeful because once this has turned the corner it will be great, you might think this naive, maybe but also realistic if things are ongoing however slow for whatever reason you will have to accept because you wont get any help from govt, i have other investments in other places and the delays have also been severe but the developments are now opening and whilst still not fully up to spec are moving on when the world gets itself out of this financial mire things will look much rosier, if however your developer has actually stopped building there is no other route than legal advice, good luck to all, come on dsc make it happen, steve:nuts:


----------



## noir-dresses

Spurs said:


> I agree its rubbish, but i must say i was on JBR beach last weekend and i can honestly say it was PACKED down there. Never seen it so busy!


In reality, isn't that the way it should be ? It's marina's prime beach for god sake's, they should of made those beach club's a long time ago, that place should be bustling with people day, and night.


----------



## Spurs

noir-dresses said:


> In reality, isn't that the way it should be ? It's marina's prime beach for god sake's, they should of made those beach club's a long time ago, that place should be bustling with people day, and night.


Iv been to Bondi, copacabana, Haad Rin, South beach and none were as busy as JBR last weekend


----------



## 234sale

noir-dresses said:


> http://www.business24-7.ae/economy/...arrive-in-dubai-per-month-2010-03-31-1.100808
> 
> Dubai say's they are getting 10,000 new resident's a month. You got to love the number's, we have nothing to worry about, and all those new unit's that will come out in the market will all be occupied.
> 
> Ya rite


They would have to, to fill the 20,000 units coming on line every month. :banana:


----------



## 234sale

cayman1 said:


> hi i need to know if my contracts are registred in DLD how can i do ?


Which contracts SPA's? you would be registered as an unit owner in the interim register, but the contract it's self is between you and the developer, until completion.


----------



## Imre

*Visa rule change lifts Oman property market*

Bradley Hope

Last Updated: April 01. 2010 10:57PM UAE / April 1. 2010 6:57PM GMT 

Oman’s property market is showing new vitality, thanks in part to the government’s easing of its visa policy.

Like other Gulf markets, sales of new homes in Oman slowed to a crawl after the global financial crisis. Prices in Muscat dropped by an average of between 30 and 40 per cent, with high-end villas falling even further, according to the property consultancy Cluttons.

*Now, with the new visa policy in place for several months, sales have picked up and prices have stabilised in three of the country’s largest developments: Muscat Hills, The Wave and Shangri-La Barr al Jissah. Expatriate homeowners in special zones can now obtain two-year visas that are renewable.*

“There has been a pickup” since last month, said Francis Selvaraj, the head of professional services at Cluttons. “There is more certainty and confidence. A lot of funds are also coming back into the market.”

*Oman’s success in sparking a small rebound in sales could be a model for Dubai as it struggles with a sluggish market and a confusing visa process.*

Nicholas Maclean, the head of the regional office of CB Richard Ellis, a property consultancy, says a lack of clarity about the UAE’s residency visas was a “barrier to entry” in Dubai and was inhibiting buyers who were intent on taking advantage of the market’s significantly lower prices. Oman’s policy could be partly replicated in the Emirates, he said.

Full article here:

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100401/BUSINESS/704019863/1005


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ So frustrating that those in power at Abu Dhabi don't allow this to happen in UAE. :bash:


----------



## tailspin

*Resident Visa*

Hi,
I am a bit concerned. I was hoping that I could get resident visa for my wife. Apparently the rules have changed and quite horrific. The property has to be worth a million or more and the visa is only for 6 months. 

I was not planning to live in Dubai, just wanted to keep the flat as a place to stay when I come on visits or for get aways. But did not wan to go through the hassle of applying for a visa for my wife. I do not need a visa myself. Is there a way around. 

I have actually lost heart after hearing this.


----------



## Dune

234sale:



> Do it yourself on Dubizzle or Gulf News, don't use here to advertise please.


You obviously mis-read my post. I am not "advertising" anything.

This thread is called "property and investment in Dubai" and I am looking for a recommendation from those who are on this site who might have suggestions as to who might be a good agent and/or agency to contact. Nothing more; nothing less.

If you have a suggestion, either post it or P.M. me with it if if bothers you. Otherwise move on.

Anyone else who might be kind enough to help me out; either feel free or P.M. me......I'd be very grateful.

Regards


----------



## Imre

Dune said:


> I have an apartment unit shortly becoming vacant in The Greens/The Views area.
> 
> It appears many leasing agencies are now "specializing" in certain areas of Dubai. I am looking for any recommendations from SCC members indicating which agencies might "specialize" in leases in this area (especially any of you have had personal experiences with agents/agencies leasing in this area).
> 
> Any suggestions highly welcomed and appreciated.


Probably you have apartment from the Emaar,try the Hamptons , Landmark,Betterhomes ,Hunter and Hunter etc..as much as you can , plus the websites like, expatriates.com, dubizzle.com, justrentalsdubai.com ..etc..


----------



## 234sale

No I didn't mis read you post, I was offering advice.

Dubizzle is free for property listings, Hamptons is owned by Emaar and the best agency for the greens.



> Otherwise move on


 o rly!, 

Please use advertising services for your properties, not SSC.

Forum rules can be found HERE


----------



## Imre

*Jumeirah Beach plaza struggling for customers*

Hugh Naylor

Last Updated: April 04. 2010 12:25AM UAE / April 3. 2010 8:25PM GMT 

It was meant to be a thriving, high-end shopping boulevard. But with many premises lying empty and several retailers having left, the plaza-level shopping area at Jumeirah Beach Residence is not quite the bustling arcade its developers had hoped.

Businesses that have folded or found themselves struggling point to a lack of advertising, and broken lifts that leave people on The Walk below with no choice but to climb off-putting flights of stairs to reach the shops.

Residents say there is too much emphasis on upmarket brands, such as Saks Fifth Avenue and Karl Lagerfeld, in an area where people want more down-to-earth, functional outlets.

Dubai Properties Group, the developer, said it was re-examining the “retail mix” and promised that new shops were on the way.

The area’s relative torpor is in stark contrast to The Walk – a quick stroll down to the ground level – where there is a bustling promenade of restaurants and boutiques.

Nancy Mizayad, 27, an Australian who lives in Amwaj residence, said opening shops that catered to young and middle-income families at plaza level would be practical.

“If they brought in an H&M there, you’d have a lot of younger people interested,” she said of the Swedish clothing retailer. “It’d be good to have more things for mothers and children.”


http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100404/NATIONAL/704039870/1041


----------



## cayman1

Developers Get More Power
Friday, April 02, 2010

Real Estate Decree Number 6 grants a developer the right to unilaterally terminate a purchase contract if the investor does not meet certain obligations. The decree, issued by the Dubai Executive Council last month, awaits formal publication in the official gazette. However, in an effort towards even-handedness, developers and investors both have the right to ask the Dubai Land Department to terminate a property purchase contract if certain conditions are met. Components of the decree have been welcomed by industry players as potentially helpful in defusing unresolved conflict and clearing a path to resolution. "The decree attempts to clarify the legal rights of investors and developers and provides greater powers to the Dubai Land Department [to cancel projects]. These will help increase transparency," said Craig Plumb, head of research at Jones Lang Lasalle.

The decree empowers the developer to terminate a purchase agreement by directly sending a termination notice to a purchaser who is in breach of the contract, without the Land Department's approval or involvement. A purchaser can terminate a contract for a number of reasons, including the developer's failure to deliver the unit without justifiable cause or the payment schedule not being in line with the Real Estate Regulatory Authority's guidelines. "The decree tries to do a balancing act, giving the developer prime mover advantage. "Because it tries to do something for everyone, it creates the groundwork for a lot of litigation. However, it will resolve festering problems, which is good," Shahram Safai, partner and head of the real estate department at Afridi and Angell, told Gulf News. Decree No 6 sets out the guidelines for an investor to take petition the courts in case of a complaint.
Source: Gulf News

Bad news, is Dubai.....


----------



## jba

cayman1 said:


> Developers Get More Power
> Friday, April 02, 2010
> 
> Real Estate Decree Number 6 grants a developer the right to unilaterally terminate a purchase contract if the investor does not meet certain obligations. The decree, issued by the Dubai Executive Council last month, awaits formal publication in the official gazette. However, in an effort towards even-handedness, developers and investors both have the right to ask the Dubai Land Department to terminate a property purchase contract if certain conditions are met. Components of the decree have been welcomed by industry players as potentially helpful in defusing unresolved conflict and clearing a path to resolution. "The decree attempts to clarify the legal rights of investors and developers and provides greater powers to the Dubai Land Department [to cancel projects]. These will help increase transparency," said Craig Plumb, head of research at Jones Lang Lasalle.
> 
> The decree empowers the developer to terminate a purchase agreement by directly sending a termination notice to a purchaser who is in breach of the contract, without the Land Department's approval or involvement. A purchaser can terminate a contract for a number of reasons, including the developer's failure to deliver the unit without justifiable cause or the payment schedule not being in line with the Real Estate Regulatory Authority's guidelines. "The decree tries to do a balancing act, giving the developer prime mover advantage. "Because it tries to do something for everyone, it creates the groundwork for a lot of litigation. However, it will resolve festering problems, which is good," Shahram Safai, partner and head of the real estate department at Afridi and Angell, told Gulf News. Decree No 6 sets out the guidelines for an investor to take petition the courts in case of a complaint.
> Source: Gulf News
> 
> Bad news, is Dubai.....


Very Very BAD news! Dubai hits the self destruct button again!


----------



## 234sale

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ So frustrating that those in power at Abu Dhabi don't allow this to happen in UAE. :bash:


Maybe Cityscape AD will be a turning point. Supply needs a demand..


----------



## FARIBA

HI 
Has anyone knows if they are working on ct4? or they stopped again?I haven't seen any new pic's since jan 2010
Thanks


----------



## Freestyler

tysonM said:


> Gooood


Tyson, you must be happy now after spotting some grammar and spelling mistakes.hno:


----------



## amplesou

Memon are charging £4K connection charges
Thats not on i think !


----------



## Spurs

Imre said:


> *Jumeirah Beach plaza struggling for customers*
> 
> Hugh Naylor
> 
> Last Updated: April 04. 2010 12:25AM UAE / April 3. 2010 8:25PM GMT
> 
> It was meant to be a thriving, high-end shopping boulevard. But with many premises lying empty and several retailers having left, the plaza-level shopping area at Jumeirah Beach Residence is not quite the bustling arcade its developers had hoped.
> 
> Businesses that have folded or found themselves struggling point to a lack of advertising, and broken lifts that leave people on The Walk below with no choice but to climb off-putting flights of stairs to reach the shops.
> 
> Residents say there is too much emphasis on upmarket brands, such as Saks Fifth Avenue and Karl Lagerfeld, in an area where people want more down-to-earth, functional outlets.
> 
> Dubai Properties Group, the developer, said it was re-examining the “retail mix” and promised that new shops were on the way.
> 
> The area’s relative torpor is in stark contrast to The Walk – a quick stroll down to the ground level – where there is a bustling promenade of restaurants and boutiques.
> 
> Nancy Mizayad, 27, an Australian who lives in Amwaj residence, said opening shops that catered to young and middle-income families at plaza level would be practical.
> 
> “If they brought in an H&M there, you’d have a lot of younger people interested,” she said of the Swedish clothing retailer. “It’d be good to have more things for mothers and children.”
> 
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100404/NATIONAL/704039870/1041


Marina Walk is in a worse position (except the original 6 area). Cant see what they are going to do to make it a busy location...... Parks would help!


----------



## Rob Timpie

amplesou said:


> Memon are charging £4K connection charges
> Thats not on i think !


What's there to connect as nothing is being build. hno: 
They promissed again to send recent pictures and to make a quarterly update in March... Nothing happend again... :bash:
Hope I ever see anything back of this investment...


----------



## Dune

Imre:



> Probably you have apartment from the Emaar,try the Hamptons , Landmark,Betterhomes ,Hunter and Hunter etc..as much as you can , plus the websites like, expatriates.com, dubizzle.com, justrentalsdubai.com ..etc..


Yes, the unit is an Emaar project. Thank you very much for the information; it was very helpful.

Imre, you continue to be the essence of CLASS on this website and the one person others posters should aspire to emulate. In addition to your photos, you have always been very helpful in providing advice to others who are less "connected" with the day to day real estate scene in Dubai.


234sale:

You, on the other hand, are the opposite and a complete waste of time. Don't waste my time by commenting on my posts unless you have something positive to offer.


----------



## agod

Spurs said:


> Marina Walk is in a worse position (except the original 6 area). Cant see what they are going to do to make it a busy location...... Parks would help!



Metro...............they will pour in when that opens, they may not be the highest earners around, but you just watch them come.

Al.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dune stop talking crap and stay tone !


----------



## 234sale

Dune, sorry if I was harsh, I had been deleting advrts in the development threads, I will refund some of your subscription fee out of my wages...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai house prices have remained stable despite an increase in the supply of units as investors opt out of the sales market until prices rise, Landmark Advisory said on Monday.

Investors are taking a “wait and see” approach in the hope that growth will return to the market, the real estate firm told Arabian Business.

“While the number of newly handed over units has increased, the actual inventory, or quantity of units available for sale and lease has decreased during the past year, due to investor sentiment. Most are taking a wait and see approach, especially in the sales market,” Jesse Downs, director of research & advisory services, said.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/585275-dubai-investors-opt-out-of-sales-market-until-prices-rise


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Abu Dhabi tourism to get a boost from 'Sex and the City 2'

Abu Dhabi tourism is set to get a boost from the film ‘Sex and the City 2’, despite not a single scene having been shot in the city, analysts have said.

The film, which sees Carrie Bradshaw, played by Sarah Jessica Parker, and three friends, leave their hometown of New York to visit the UAE capital city.

Both Abu Dhabi and Dubai officials banned producers from filming in the cities. A source told US Weekly, at the time the show’s salacious content was seen to be at odds with the UAE’s more conservative culture.

However, the National reports on Monday, analysts said scenes like the women riding camels in the desert and at a local market – filmed in Morocco – will promote Abu Dhabi’s tourism sector.

“Although the audience knows it is filmed somewhere else, it still has a positive impact on the destination where the movie is set,” Dr Ian Michael, a professor of marketing at Zayed University in Dubai told the paper.

“Research to date is proving that this benefits the place where the movie is set, in this case Abu Dhabi, and to a lesser extent where the movie is actually filmed.”

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/585245-abu-dhabi-tourism-to-get-a-boost-from-sex-and-the-city-2


----------



## amplesou

Yeh i got the info from agod from dubai marine thread who mentioned it there !
Maybe its time for a nother visit from you /me to get some up dates !
Security no problem !
So many ways to get under the fence :lol::lol::lol:
I,l take me wire cutters with me ? 
:cheers:


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## TerryPop

*tenant changeover*

I have a tenant moving out of one of our villas 

I am not too sure what to ask for on the day we do the hand over.

I want the final bill and proof of settlement of their DEWA acct (anyone know what that is called?)



And I guess I need to snag the place for deposit worthy damage-

Please point me to any posts for this or if you can take the time, give me some advice on the process of handing back - thanks a big one  TP


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## amplesou

234sale said:


> :lol:
> 
> His problem is ,he comes from the school of not talking about the problem makes the issue go away.
> 
> Intially we had many user like this, but as Dubai press also started highlighting issues, they realised that the issues where much larger.
> 
> Now some of the issues are being solved, through normal processes.


Still don,t understand this !


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## Guest89

*Apartment and villa rents fall by 30 per cent in Abu Dhabi*

*Apartment and villa rents fall by 30 per cent in Abu Dhabi*









Image credit belongs to source​

*Supply of housing exceeds demand for the first time in five years, with rents expected to plunge further.*

Rents for apartments and villas in Abu Dhabi city and surrounding areas have fallen by between 10 and 30 per cent, according to real estate agents.

For the first time in five years the supply of housing units exceeds demand, particularly at Mohammed bin Zayed City and Khalifa City A, they say.

And the agents expect that over the next five months rents will fall by as much as 30 per cent once new buildings, including the 14 towers at Al Reem Island, are handed over.

UAE national owners may try to resist and leave their new units empty for several months, but they will not be able to resist the drop in prices in 2011 and 2012 when tens of thousands of units enter the market.

"For the first time there is an excess of supply both inside and outside Abu Dhabi," said Abdul Rahman Al Shaibani, General Manager of Al Ghanem Real Estate, the largest agency in Abu Dhabi. "Outside the city the supply is very large. At the moment we have many villas in need of tenants, but unfortunately we cannot find people willing to pay high rents. A year ago we used to lease a villa for Dh350,000 per year, but now it is Dh200,000 or Dh220,000.

"We used to lease a two-bedroom hall apartment for Dh180,000, but now the rent is Dh130,000 or less. A three-bedroom flat is now Dh150,000 instead of Dh220,000."

Al Shaibani said he expected rents would fall by 20 per cent inside Abu Dhabi and more than 40 per cent outside the city in the summer. "This summer will be very different from last year with the delivery of several towers in Abu Dhabi and at Al Reem Island," he added.


_Full Article from Source: Emirates Business 24/7_


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## pisandre

AltinD said:


> Yeah, I spotted the spelling mistakes in his post too.


Good one :lol::lol::lol::lol:. Broken English is not welcome here, hehe.


----------



## padddyh

Hi DSC Investor

Only getting back to this forum now as I have been trying to forget about Canal Residence until there was more progress. I am Irish and have not sought legal advice yet. I did get my solicitor to check out original contract and she felt it was very much in DSC's favour. 
I regret ever travelling to Dubai to invest in property as I put all my savings into this development. As time I was naive but believed the agents claims that everything finishes way ahead of schedule in Dubai but this was 4 years ago and still no apartment. In this thread investment seems to be a taboo word but it would certainly make me sleep easier at night if I knew I could rent apartment out for reasonable money or if I knew that it was worth at least what I paid for it. I bought a studio in Venetian Tower for AED380,500.
Padddyh


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## amplesou

padddyh said:


> Hi DSC Investor
> 
> Only getting back to this forum now as I have been trying to forget about Canal Residence until there was more progress. I am Irish and have not sought legal advice yet. I did get my solicitor to check out original contract and she felt it was very much in DSC's favour.
> I regret ever travelling to Dubai to invest in property as I put all my savings into this development. As time I was naive but believed the agents claims that everything finishes way ahead of schedule in Dubai but this was 4 years ago and still no apartment. In this thread investment seems to be a taboo word but it would certainly make me sleep easier at night if I knew I could rent apartment out for reasonable money or if I knew that it was worth at least what I paid for it. I bought a studio in Venetian Tower for AED380,500.
> Padddyh


Padddyh i think you will do ok out of your investment at that price you mentioned just try and be a bit more patient or just put it to the back of your mind for now!
This is not an investment thread but there is investment forums out there 
http://www.propertycommunity.com/forum/dubai-property/ 

Investment talk on here just leads to conflict i don,t know why but maybe we investors are not alone ?
There are others coming on here trying to manipulate investors to release funds on properties that are stagnating and way off completion !
We have one at the moment "rufi twin towers "where claims of developers are totally out of line with construction milstones stated and size of work force stated !
Crw is not one of these so your money should be ok !
peace


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Sheikh Zayed Road in Dubai once had one of the highest occupancy rates for office buildings in the city. Now, more than half of them lie empty in the metropolitan corridor.

Office rents fell by as much as 45 per cent in the first three months of the year compared with the previous quarter as more office buildings were delivered to the already over-supplied market, says a report from Cluttons, the international property broker.

Only the Dubai International Financial Centre and the free zone TECOM had occupancy levels above 90 per cent, while office buildings on Sheikh Zayed Road were dealing with an average 60 per cent vacancy rate, Cluttons said. 

Jumeirah Lake Towers, a forest of skyscrapers close to the Dubai Marina along Sheikh Zayed Road, had occupancy levels of only 20 per cent. “There are not only disparate levels of quality within the developments, but fragmented ownership has proven difficult for larger companies to rent or buy appropriately continuous spaces,” the report said.

In TECOM, or the Technology, E-Commerce and Media Free Zone, landlords were giving tenants up to six months without paying rent to make up for the minimum rent of Dh140 (US$38.12) a square foot.

While the rents officially stay the same, the rent-free periods result in the effective market rate dropping to between Dh50 and Dh70 a sq ft. Increased competition among buildings for tenants was making building management more important for profitability, said Steven Morgan, the director of the Dubai office of Cluttons. “Vacancy rates may be very high, but there is no reason why a well-designed building that is managed properly can’t keep occupancy levels up,” Mr Morgan said.

“It’s about building a relationship with tenants and having longer-term leases.” Residential rents in Dubai dropped by an average of 5.5 per cent in the first three months of the year to just under Dh200,000 a year for villas and close to Dh100,000 for two-bedroom apartments, Cluttons said in its report. 

“There are pockets of development that are doing better than others,” Mr Morgan said. “But I think we are still in the stage where we are bumping along the bottom.”

Sales prices “remain level and have only decreased marginally in some instances”, the report said, adding that the rising number of units available in the market would place downward pressure on sales prices this year. Areas such as Jumeirah and the Marina were less affected, as residents trade up from other neighbourhoods to take advantage of low prices. The most important thing for price stability was the availability of communities in the property developments, Mr Morgan said.

“If you look at the developments that are holding up in the downturn, very clearly it has to do with the community in that area,” he said. 

“The Marina is strong for the young professionals, while the Springs and the Meadows are more for the families.” Mr Morgan said the Dubai World restructuring plan was a “step in the right direction” for the property market, but it remained to be seen how it would be carried out.

“The market needs to be left alone to drive its own demand at this point,” he said. “Just because people put down payments on the Waterfront doesn’t mean that it needs to be built … there is a need for more consolidation and affordable housing, not luxury property.”

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100405/BUSINESS/704059903/1051


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*Bank gang helped to crash UAE economy*

Seven men involved in Dubai's biggest ever corruption case stole so much money they actually damaged the country's economy, a court has heard.
The defendants are accused of swindling dhs1.8 billion from Dubai Islamic Bank by forging documents and offering bribes to get loans for property developments.

Prosecutor Khalid Al-Zarouni told Dubai Court of First Instance yesterday: "These men were highly organised and betrayed the trust of the bank.
They damaged the economy by targeting one of the biggest banks in the UAE without a concern for the impact."
He said the fraud not only affected the economy by its sheer size but also by damaging confidence in the bank, one of the rocks on which the economy is built.
'Octopus' led team of fraudsters
The bank was formed in 1975 and was the world's first full-service Islamic bank.
Al-Zarouni said the fraud was led by a 36-year-old Turkish businessman, who he described as an "octopus". 
The other defendants were his "tentacles" that he used to control the corruption.

The fraud happened between 2002 and 2007 when, Al-Zarouni said, Dubai's booming economy attracted such men.
"The investment climate in Dubai encouraged chancers such as the defendants to target the country and use that climate to steal the money from the bank's million customers," he added. And he asked the court to hand down maximum sentences to the men.
"Dubai provided them with decent jobs and a future. They had a good life here and yet they committed such fraud. We are asking for the toughest penalties as an example to others who might harm the UAE."

The case involves five businessmen and two former senior executives of DIB, who face charges of fraud, forgery and bribery. 
The ringleader, along with two British men aged 48 and 54, have been charged with defrauding the bank out of dhs1.8 billion.

The Brits collaborated with the Turk to forge documents that would allow them to get financing for various projects.
A 39-year-old financing manager at the bank and his 50-year-old deputy received bribes of $950,000 and $750,000 respectively to help. 
Another British man, aged 58, is facing charges of aiding and abetting, while an American faces a charge of defrauding the bank out of $2 million.
However, defence lawyer Habeeb Al-Mula yesterday has asked for his client to be acquitted, claiming they are innocent.

http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZAWYA20100406030900/Bank gang helped to crash UAE economy


----------



## dubaimat

looks like they missed a question mark at the end of this header

*Dreams can still come true in Dubai's property scene
*
In 2003, Robert Miller dreamed of escaping the cold winters of the UK and set about looking for a second home in Dubai.

After coming to the emirate on several holidays, it did not take the company director long to settle for a flat in Palm Springs, a 25-storey beachfront property proposed by Damac Properties at Palm Jebel Ali.

The home was going to be a winter retreat for the father of three and his family and possibly, further down the line, a retirement home.

Seven years later, instead of soaking up the sea views from his balcony, Mr Miller is still awaiting the day Nakheel, the Dubai World-owned master developer of Palm Jebel Ali, releases the land for Damac to build on.

“I still have that dream, but who knows if it’s ever going to be fulfilled,” he says.
Mr Miller was among hundreds of investors who, in early 2008, protested when Damac said Palm Springs would be shelved, blaming changes in plot sizes by Nakheel.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100405/BUSINESS/100409851


----------



## dubaimat

and another one

*Age of the super malls is on the wane*

They were designed with ski slopes, sky-diving centres and shark-filled aquariums to draw shoppers, but the era of the Dubai super mall may have drawn to a close.

The opening of the Dh3 billion (US$817 million) Mirdif City Centre last month “marks the end of wide-scale development of super regional malls in Dubai” for the next three years, the property consultant Jones Lang LaSalle said in a report yesterday. Several planned malls are likely to be delayed for the next two years, while some “obsolescent or underperforming malls may be redeveloped or even in some cases converted to other uses”, the report said.

In the boom times, developers sought to take advantage of the growing population and vibrant tourism industry with ever-larger malls that included entertainment features such as the indoor ski slope at Mall of the Emirates and the aquarium at the Dubai Mall.

In just over three years, the stock of high-quality retail mall space in Dubai increased by 60 per cent, from 15 million square feet in 2006 to 24 million sq ft this year.

But the economic slowdown in 2008 and last year has seriously curtailed shopping, especially at luxury outlets. “With a decline in purchasing power of the resident population over the past 18 months, consumer shopping budgets have been reduced significantly,” the report said. “There is now heightened competition to aggressively capture shoppers’ interests and income.”

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100405/BUSINESS/704059901/1005


----------



## dubaimat

last but not least, the romantic week end getaway is coming closer:cheers:

*Fujairah's new highway promises economic benefits *

A new federal motorway between Fujairah and Dubai promises to shave 45 minutes off travel times and boost the tourism, property and air cargo sectors.

Next year, the Ministry of Public Works and Housing is expected to complete a Dh1.5 billion (US$408 million), 77km, six-lane motorway that cuts directly through the Hajar Mountains, shortening the current winding 135km route.

“This will definitely attract people to Fujairah,” said Salem Khalil, a technical adviser to the Government of Fujairah.

“We think this will attract trading with the business community and improve real estate.”

The emirate lacks the oil and gas deposits that benefited Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Sharjah, and instead has pursued a two-pronged economic plan targeting tourism and industry.

While industry has relied on oil bunkering and other marine services that take advantage of Fujairah’s prime location outside the Strait of Hormuz, the tourist trade is almost entirely reliant on guests arriving by road from other emirates.

That pattern applies to UAE residents and to foreign tourists arriving at Dubai International Airport.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100403/BUSINESS/704039918/1057


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## AltinD

I always wanted to visit Fujeirah but didn't want to drive 1.5 h to go there.


----------



## Datok

maddie said:


> Does anyone have any updates re Bermuda Views - any info is very much appreciated. Many thanks.


Recently I heard that they have finalized with some foreign company to take over this project. Hope to get some good news soon.


----------



## agod

Jodel said:


> Hi Alan (& belated Happy Birthday!!)
> 
> Pun intended??
> 
> *any good Sailor worth his salt[/B], wouldn't be out by day, he would be in his bunk, with a sore head.*


*


Thank You, I've PM'd you.

A.*


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## Richard Head

AltinD said:


> I always wanted to visit Fujeirah but didn't want to drive 1.5 h to go there.


I thought you were a car nut? It's a great drive, lots of twisty roads through the mountains, a lot of fun if you have oh, say, 500 BHP under your right foot 

Stayed in the Meridien Al Aqah last Saturday night, 700 chips for a very nice room. Will get cheaper as summer closes in too. I'll definitely be doing that again in the coming weeks.


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## DXBQuantum

Bit off topic guys, but wondering if you can help.

I have been offered land plots in the Cayman Islands.. very good payment plan (interest free e.t.c) and seems very cheap per/sqft as well. 

As anyone got any experience with this, or own anything over there?


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## tehsin123

*Cellucom shuts up shop amid legal row*

Just saw in National. 
Not directly related to property but guess closing 300 stores across UAE can have indirect impact on property, so many people became jobless.
Strangely, didn't see the coverage of this major story in any of Dubai papers. Or I missed it?

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100405/BUSINESS/704059831/1005


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## Imre

*TASWEEK Real Estate Marketing & Development evaluates AED 1.5 billion Abu Dhabi & Dubai investments *

*Healthcare & Retail developments could be added to portfolio soon*

April 7, 2010

TASWEEK Real Estate Development and Marketing, an Abu Dhabi-based advisor and solutions provider serving the local and the Middle East real estate markets, has evaluated and completed due diligence on properties in Abu Dhabi and Dubai worth AED 1.5 billion in total. The projects have the potential to bring in a minimum net income profit of AED 300 million for the company over a period of three years. All projects within the portfolio must be classified and qualified as trophy assets that have components of Location, Facilities, Amenities and Quality which makes them fundamentally strong assets.

The portfolio contains Residential assets (35 per cent), Commercial (30 per cent) and Hospitality (35 per cent), with value per property ranging from AED 40 million to AED 450 million It involves a total of AED 500 million in financing and AED 1 Billion in equity . Dubai projects form the majority of the investment opportunities at 60 per cent, with Abu Dhabi developments accounting for 40 per cent. 

The TASWEEK real-estate development and marketing brand of real estate has been gaining greater market acceptability due to the company’s focus on robust business acumen and market knowledge. The company has been undertaking due diligence and intense research for the portfolio buildup worth USD 250 million which was announced last October 2009 and will be executed over the coming 12 months. TASWEEK is basing its selections on location, facilities, amenities, quality, and income-bearing assets and is concentrating on the UAE market which continues to offer one of the highest yields in the region. 

“We are being extra careful with our project choices given the numerous investment opportunities currently available in the markets. Although we have significantly enhanced our capability to attract offers and proposals, we want to maintain our momentum without compromising the quality of our portfolio. We are also aiming for a diverse lineup of properties that can cater to unique residential and commercial needs,” said Masood Al Awar, CEO, TASWEEK Real Estate Development and Marketing.

Full text here:

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/04/tasweek-real-estate-marketing.html


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## noir-dresses

You should sell, and give your friend back the full 1200 AED/psf you ended up talking him into buying, now that's what a real friend would do.

You take the hit, instead of expecting him to be your bitch.


----------



## speculator

Come on ! His friend surely must have been aware of the risk/reward & thats why he invested. So why should the friend get all his money back. What if we flip the scenario and there was a large gain: then what ?

If your buddy aint on the contract anywhere and no agreement then go ahead and sell.


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## iownyou

noir-dresses said:


> You should sell, and give your friend back the full 1200 AED/psf you ended up talking him into buying, now that's what a real friend would do.
> 
> You take the hit, instead of expecting him to be your bitch.



no he could have sold it when it was worth 2000 dhs per sqft but he decided to keep it as was i so this is business but anyways he doesent want to sell or buy the rest so ill need to go to court :banana:


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## Grubbman

Try preventitive medicine, dont do business with mates....if you want to keep them as mates.


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## Richard Head

iownyou said:


> no he could have sold it when it was worth 2000 dhs per sqft but he decided to keep it as was i so this is business but anyways he doesent want to sell or buy the rest so ill need to go to court :banana:


So why come to the forum asking for advice, if you're then going to contradict / ignore this advice and do your own thing anyway? :bash:


----------



## Freestyler

Richard Head said:


> So why come to the forum asking for advice, if you're then going to contradict / ignore this advice and do your own thing anyway? :bash:


Nothing wrong with asking.... take it easy :cheers:


----------



## Opus 2009

GreenKiwi said:


> Yes in theory money back but almost certainly installment payments will have been used for conultants, engineers fees etc so no money to refund......has anyone heard of any developer that has refunded cash in Dubai?


I had a small unit in a project - and the developer gave 24 post dated cheques, with the first one due in a few months. Lets hope the cheques go through.

Also I heard that Sama Dubai (now Dubai Properties) is offering cash refunds to purchasers in the 3 towers launched at the Lagoons by Sama.


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## noir-dresses

http://www.business24-7.ae/economy/...loons-20-in-first-quarter-2010-04-20-1.136818

I found this to be a very interesting article, looks like we're moving in the rite direction.


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## bizzybonita

UAE's 'build it and they will buy' days are over

by Ed Attwood on Monday, 19 April 2010

Developers in the UAE are being warned to pay closer attention to consumer demand if they hope to sell or rent off the space in the multitude of new projects coming online in the country, senior industry observers say.

*"Developers have been building 'outside in'* - that is, for the look of the property rather than the efficient use of the interior floorspace," Cluttons Abu Dhabi associate director Harry Goodson Wickes told Arabian Business during the Cityscape Abu Dhabi exhibition.

"This was all fine when supply is limited and demand is high, but as more discerning occupiers look at the new supply line in the market, they will be attracted by more functional usage."

The Cluttons director added that if a building has been built more efficiently, the service charge is likely to be lower, which is again an attractive proposition for occupiers.

"What we are saying to developers is that you need to cut up your floorplate to match demand in the market," Colliers International regional director Ian Albert pointed out.

"You have to provide a service and a product that people want; it's no longer a 'build and they will take it' market."

Albert indicated that the abundance of shell and core office space available to consumers was fine in a cash-rich market, but that occupiers were now looking to save the money they would once have spent on fitting out.

"The advice to clients is that it's better to take the cost of fit-out and put it into the building itself, as the finance loan for that building is over ten-fifteen years and is a lot easier to swallow," Albert said.

For their part, developers argued that they were listening to the new market dynamic.

"Things are changing - people don't just want three or four bedroom properties, they want one or two bedrooms maybe," said Aldar marketing director Ousama Ghannoum.

"We are definitely listening to demand." 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/586314-uaes-build-it-and-they-will-buy-days-are-over


----------



## tehsin123

noir-dresses said:


> http://www.business24-7.ae/economy/...loons-20-in-first-quarter-2010-04-20-1.136818
> 
> I found this to be a very interesting article, looks like we're moving in the rite direction.


What a lie this report is...
I haven't observed any increase improvement in job market. As a small example, only during last 3 months, 4 of my friends got laid of. Banks fired so much staff here that they couldn't publish in the press. I am connected with banking industry and know people have flown out like flies. Where jobs have come from? No new projects, ventures or businesses have been seen in the press. Its been a failed technique to pump up the confidence via false press reports by some insignificant (or baised) recruiters or property traders.


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## Datok

smith11 said:


> I also have heard about their meetings and things are almost finalized for some of their projects in DSC, but I am also not sure which are the one.


Recently I have been to DSC office, and came to know that Profile will be starting soon, and they are trying to negotiate with the investors, I don't know what kind of negotiation. But you will be hearing soon.


----------



## bjassin

tehsin123 said:


> What a lie this report is...
> I haven't observed any increase improvement in job market. As a small example, only during last 3 months, 4 of my friends got laid of. Banks fired so much staff here that they couldn't publish in the press. I am connected with banking industry and know people have flown out like flies. Where jobs have come from? No new projects, ventures or businesses have been seen in the press. Its been a failed technique to pump up the confidence via false press reports by some insignificant (or baised) recruiters or property traders.


100% correct. I had several friends in banking who had thought they survived the worst times (2009) only to be forced to 'resign' the last several weeks. In addition, NO ONE else is hiring--at least in high level finance. 

BJ


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## iownyou

Richard Head said:


> So why come to the forum asking for advice, if you're then going to contradict / ignore this advice and do your own thing anyway? :bash:


because i have already my own ideas but i wanted to see and compare with what others think to choose the best idea


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## noir-dresses

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...2010/April/theuae_April527.xml&section=theuae

UAE to review visa policy


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## Richard Head

tehsin123 said:


> What a lie this report is...
> I haven't observed any increase improvement in job market. As a small example, only during last 3 months, 4 of my friends got laid of. Banks fired so much staff here that they couldn't publish in the press. I am connected with banking industry and know people have flown out like flies. Where jobs have come from? No new projects, ventures or businesses have been seen in the press. Its been a failed technique to pump up the confidence via false press reports by some insignificant (or baised) recruiters or property traders.


Well obviously the experiences of you and your 4 banking friends is of greater statistical importance than the data gathered by 3 large companies engaged in recruitment across many business sectors. hno:


----------



## Spurs

I flicked over to City 7 news last night and I think i heard them say that expatiates reduced by 4% this quarter. As I remember they said the info was from recruitment companies.


----------



## Imre

*Real estate sector defines investment objectives at Cityscape Abu Dhabi 2010 Conference *

*TASWEEK Real Estate Marketing & Development discusses strategies and solutions of UAE real estate market*










April 21, 2010

Abu Dhabi’s real estate investment objectives and other vital business issues were discussed by prominent industry figures during the Cityscape Abu Dhabi Real Estate Investment and Development Conference that concluded today (Wednesday, April 21, 2010) at the Abu Dhabi National Exhibition Centre. 

TASWEEK Real Estate Marketing and Development CEO Masood Al Awar participation in the panel discussion to compare and contrast the property strategies of Abu Dhabi and Dubai, explain how competing locations can work cooperatively, and identify industry segments that are currently attracting the most attention from investors during a panel discussion titled “Abu Dhabi and Dubai: Economic Powerhouses in Comparison”. Al Awar also joined roundtables on Abu Dhabi investments, the residential market, distressed investments, MENA versus global markets, and foreign direct investments throughout the conference. 

“It’s important for the real estate industry to get together and set clearer investment objectives maintaining balance short, medium and long term returns in various project investments as we see more signs of a possible shift to global economic recovery. The regional markets have changed dramatically over the past two years and so we need to adopt new strategies available that fit existing business realities and customer demands. These will help us come up with a more efficient approach to real estate development, investment, and marketing,” said Al Awar.

More info:

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/04/real-estate-sector-defines-investment.html


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## tehsin123

Richard Head said:


> Well obviously the experiences of you and your 4 banking friends is of greater statistical importance than the data gathered by 3 large companies engaged in recruitment across many business sectors. hno:


Of course, it is the real experience for me rather than biased statistics. Same statistics say property prices rising, population of dubai going up, employment balooning, airport traffic up by 20%, tourists flooding in. Would you believe all?
I won't.


----------



## Bobby V

*Refund due to late completion*

For information;

http://www.propertycommunity.com/property-in-dubai/552-compensation-victory-uk-investor-dubai.html


----------



## cayman1

* Home
* Companies & Markets
* Real Estate

Signs of pick-up in Dubai off-plan unit sales
By

* Anjana Kumar

Published Thursday, April 22, 2010

Residential towers at Dubai Marina. Buyers are waiting for the market to bottom out further before investing in off-plan properties. (DENNIS B MALLARI)

Limited off-plan sales activity is being recorded in Dubai especially for properties in a good location and for those nearing completion, real estate experts said.

Although the off-plan market continues to be challenged by factors such as lack of finance by lending firms, project delays and high prices, realty professionals said 'off-plan' sales activity has picked up in Dubai, from being a totally 'dead market'.

Better Homes recorded five per cent of its overall sales in the last month for properties close to completion. Liz O'Connor, Director, Residential Sales and Leasing, Better Homes, said: "Five per cent of our sales in the last six months have been off-plan but these have all been close to completion. Further, these off-plan properties we sold were mostly apartments in Dubai Marina close to completion."

She added that so far, Better Homes has sold single off-plan units in various developments in Dubai. "We have not seen more than one transaction at a time."

Hesham El Far, CEO, Coldwell Banker, said: "Around 15 per cent of our overall monthly transactions can be attributed to properties nearing completion. Off-plan sales transactions are mostly a second sale being purchased largely by cash buyers since mortgage is practically nil for these properties."

He said that potential off-plan buyers needed to be convinced there was on-going construction activity on site with a good contractor on board. "If a property is more than 70 per cent completed and is in a good location, then buyers are going ahead with buying the off-plan property."

Mohanad Alwadiya, Managing Director, Harbor Real Estate, said: "Over the last 15 months, there has been a general consensus that demand for the 'under-construction' or 'off-plan' projects has totally dried up, both from domestic buyers and from overseas investors. However, it appears that the worst might be over, as we have started witnessing an increase in demand for off-plan properties and have even concluded a sizeable number of transactions for projects under construction or nearing completion."

"During the last year, we sold 77 units that were still under construction in Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT), Dubai Marina and Dubai Investment Park (DIP), Business Bay and Dubai Land.

Flexibility needed

"There is no doubt that the first quarter of 2010 was far more promising than the first quarter of 2009. Things are changing quickly and there is definitely an increase in market activity. Having said that, developers and off-plan property owners in Dubai will not be able to achieve off-plan sales by simply reducing their prices alone."

He said that a successful representation of owners of off-plan properties requires a creative and fresh approach to selling these properties. "Developers or owners must apply a lot of flexibility to ensuring that their properties are being repackaged in a unique and attractive way that appeals to the current lucrative demand pockets.

"Unfortunately, a lot of agents and owners use price reductions as a way of making these properties more attractive. From experience, this approach alone doesn't and will not yield success. Added-value ideas and creative packaging, along with institutionally addressing all the fundamental concerns buyers today have against off-plan properties, is the best way to marketing and selling off-plan properties in Dubai."

Noura Yassin, Director and Head of Valuation and Consultancy Department, CB Richard Ellis, said: "There are transactions for units that are nearing completion. Some of those off-plan sales could be a result of a swap or consolidation of units."

"However, I am not aware of that many off-plan properties selling now, mainly because there is no finance available for off-plan sales. Also, developers have put these projects on hold and are offering consolidation options and swap options for their clients," said Yassin.

Sana Kapadia, Vice-President for Equity Research at EFG-Hermes, said: "There seems to be a trend towards buying completed properties and some interest in soon-to-be-completed ones. However, very few are selling off-plan units at this stage. Transactions are at the secondary level."

Meanwhile, Linda Mahoney, CEO, Better Homes, said the limited off-plan activity recorded by her firm has been with respect to properties that will be completed in the next three months. Better Homes also said the off-plan activity in Dubai is currently concentrated in some areas, especially the Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC).

Tom Bunker, Investment Sales Consultant, Better Homes, said: "Off-plan activity that is taking place right now is of stock that has yet to be delivered in DIFC and stock from premium developers whose properties are a month or so away from completion."

Trust low at present

Bunker said it all depends on who the developer is and by how much the seller is willing to lower his price. "Recently we had a client looking for a unit in Emirates Financial Tower, but as he was not assured as to when the project would be handed over, and was not prepared to pay 2007 prices for stock delivering in 2010, he backed away. In Dubai Marina, Emaar has stock being handed over now in Marina Quays. It is only now that people are asking about the project. A month back, people made enquiries but held off until Emaar came through with delivery."

Bunker added that the off-plan market continues to be challenged with investors still not trusting many developers. "Many worry that facilities will not come through within the developments and as a result, will also delay handover of off-plan projects. Those developers who seem to be on a solid footing could find themselves without financing which would also delay the project."

El Far said: "Sometimes when we see some off-plan developments in a good location being developed by a good developer, then we tend to sell it. Like Infinity Tower is very competitive for the time being. The prices are currently Dh1,400 per square foot to Dh1,500 per sq foot." He added some Emaar properties in the Greens area have seen some off-plan activity largely from end-users and a few investors.

According to Alwadiya, there are some great deals for investors today, as long as buyers take a long-term perspective. "Many potential buyers are waiting for prices to bottom out. Determining the bottom of any market in any recessionary cycle is problematic. By the time buyers feel they have spotted it, some real opportunities have gone. Those who do well in these times proactively and bravely seek out the opportunities and don't merely rely on reports or market rumours which often work on averages and advertising listings that are not always up-to-date or accurate."

Financing difficulties

Bunker said banks are not touching off-plan properties and those that are mortgaged, are not re-financed even if they are sold. "Further, the mortgaged properties are so over-priced that no one would sell one today as the loss would be too high for them."

"Even if they cut the selling price by half, the bank still needs the full price to pay off the mortgage and not many people can afford to pay off the balance. These properties were bought two to three years ago during the boom time. Nothing will help off-plan products until enough time has gone by so that prices can rise," he said.

Meanwhile, EFG Hermes' Kapadia said locations that are doing well are established communities such as Emirates Hills, Downtown Dubai and Dubai Marina where tangible community life is offered, rental demand is in place and location is viable. She however warned that new supply of off-plan properties expected on the market would put further pressure on rental rates and prices.

Mahoney added that if Dubai does not record an increase in population and in the setting up of new businesses, off-plan sales (OPS) would likely be further affected. She said time will be the factor that will help off-plan sales as confidence returns to the market. She added that off-plan prices have dropped by an average of 50 per cent over the past 18 months.

Yassin said almost all developers had to revise their selling prices, not only on off-plan properties but also on those that are completed. "However, prices of off-plan sales were the most to fall as finance is practically not available."

Incentives needed

Yassin said developers have to consider lowering their selling prices and offering more incentives. "Further, finance needs to be available with easy payment instalment plans. Developers will need to offer the market new products, consider designs and give incentives to their clients. Prices will be affected across the board due to oversupply in comparison to demand. Further, banks are still conservative in providing mortgages and if they do, the terms are seen to be difficult and rates are still high."

Bunker said: "For the most part, on projects being developed by the larger and more dependable developers, all of the stock had already been sold, so the developers didn't have to adjust any of their pricing. But those who bought the product off-plan did. It didn't matter that they reduced the price even to the point of making significant losses, but the market still refused to buy.

"As an example, there is a property in Business Bay that is being viewed by potential buyers where prices have dropped considerably. But they refuse to act on the deal until they at least receive word from the developer on the expected delivery date. Even a significant drop in price will not convince a buyer to buy an off-plan product today."

Kapadia said liquidity was an important factor along with a clear and transparent regulation to surge the off-plan market.

OFF-PLAN AND WHAT IT ENTAILS

According to Law No (13), 2008 regulating the Interim Real Estate Register (off-plan properties) in Dubai, an off-plan sale is defined as 'the sale of subdivided real estate units off-plan or under construction or not yet completed'.

Stephen Kelly, Senior Associate, Real Estate, Clyde & Co, said: "In this region, off-plan is a reference to a sale of an uncompleted property where work is still required to be undertaken by the developer before handover. On this basis, the sale of a unit within a building probably ceases to be 'off-plan' once the building works have been completed and a building completion certificate has been issued by the relevant authorities.

"One of the most important legislative changes that will affect 'off-plan' sales is expected to come once the implementing regulations are issued under the Jointly Owned Properties Law (Strata Law).

It is expected that developers selling 'off-plan' will have to provide purchasers with a 'disclosure statement' at the time of sale that sets out full details of the development.

Further, it will be expected that the developer will also be required to provide an estimate of the service charges that will be payable by purchasers in the first year after handover.

As the developer will be liable to the purchasers if the information in the disclosure statement is not correct, this requirement will further protect consumers entering the 'off-plan' market.


----------



## cayman1

shab said:


> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/586680-dutch-duo-jailed-for-36m-dubai-property-fraud
> 
> Another reason why off plan property in UAE is unattractive.


I ' very happy to heard people who froud, in jail for 3 yeras .:banana:


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## cayman1

It need few to change things , one year ago General Motors was in barkrupt and value 0 now is a big company again and his value will be 60 -70 BL $ . Dubai in 2008 was a dream in 2009 was a nightmare now is stable market , may be in 1 year price going up also off plan , but many people will not take the gain . 
This is the future , the history repeat it self .


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## cayman1

Dubai off-plan unit sales shows positive trend

* Print
* Mail


Search News
RSS
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Desktop News
22-Apr-2010


May be false notices


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## gerald.d

Mistermark said:


> Not necessarily. In the UK, the trend of commuting to work on a horse ended when cars were invented, and there has been no sign of this reversing.


:lol:


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## Freestyler

cayman1 said:


> It need few to change things , one year ago General Motors was in barkrupt and value 0 now is a big company again and his value will be 60 -70 BL $ . Dubai in 2008 was a dream in 2009 was a nightmare now is stable market , may be in 1 year price going up also off plan , but many people will not take the gain .
> This is the future , the history repeat it self .


maybe after 9 years.


----------



## cayman1

Freestyler said:


> maybe after 9 years.


Every people have his personal opinion , i think whith a right price is possible to sell off plan , in my experience i saw it need few to change the situation in finance like in real estate , the people should understand this , nothing is for ever


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## dubaimat

gerald.d said:


> And so it begins...





cayman1 said:


> The people should know that a negative trend , became soon or late positive trend .





Freestyler said:


> maybe after 9 years.





cayman1 said:


> This is the future , the history repeat it self .





Mistermark said:


> Not necessarily. In the UK, the trend of commuting to work on a horse ended when cars were invented, and there has been no sign of this reversing.
> 
> The problem is, something has to change for a trend to reverse itself.


Well, as you can see from reading the Gulf News, it is a fact that locals driving on Sheikh Zayed or Emirates Road are killing each other on a daily basis, though their already low number is decreasing further rapidly. 
To reverse that trend, sooner or later (there are rumours the oil will be running out),
they will be back to using camels including the few commuting to work and the rest to entertain themselves wandering around in an empty mall.:cheers:


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## Imre

Freestyler said:


> maybe after 9 years.


The biggest risk is SM now, as the gossip says he has serious health problems so what would be with Dubai if the crown prince will be the ruler ?

Same visions or something else ?


----------



## Freestyler

Imre said:


> The biggest risk is SM now, as the gossip says he has serious health problems so what would be with Dubai if the crown prince will be the ruler ?
> 
> Same visions or something else ?


I heard that too, perhaps market crash has affected him badly. As for the crown prince, he will follow his father's footsteps but he is inexperienced.


----------



## building1

Schon Properties, the developer behind the delayed AED3bn ($817m) Dubai Lagoon project, is to ask investors to switch to a new construction-linked payment scheme, in a bid to fast-track building on its 5.7 million sq ft site.

Buyers of flats in delayed buildings will also be invited to swap into apartment blocks with confirmed completion dates, said Danial Schon, vice president, Schon Properties.

The new, RERA-backed payment plan asks investors for an initial 30 percent outlay, followed by a further 10 percent when each of six construction milestones are met.

The final 10 percent is handed over on completion.

“The principle here is that a buyer won’t pay unless they see work,” Schon said. “If investors want to stick to their original plan they can, so it’s very fair. Our main aim is to expedite delivery.”

Of 2,000 buyers, 35 have switched to the new payment scheme, which will be supervised by RERA. The property watchdog will also be tracking the pace of construction.

“The reaction [from investors] has been fairly positive,” Schon said.

A spokesperson for the Dubai Lagoon investment group was not immediately available for comment.

Buyers are currently split across three payments schemes. Around half –or 1,000 buyers – subscribed to a date-based plan that required a payment each quarter. About 600 buyers signed up to a scheme that asked for 50 percent of the unit cost during construction, with the remaining 50 percent paid in monthly installments over a seven-year period after handover. The third scheme followed the same pattern, using a 60-40 split. 

Buyers on the seven-year plan will receive an up to 10 percent discount on their repayments if they switch to the new scheme, Schon said.

Schon Properties also confirmed that zones 5,6 and 7 in the project – covering 1,708 of the planned 3,826 apartments – had been put on hold. Zones 1,2,3 and 4 are now being prioritised and buyers are being invited to switch to units in these buildings.

“Most of our buyers are end-users –they just want their homes. I would say the majority, upwards of 80 percent, are interested in moving their investment. They’re reassured they’re going to get a property rather than waiting,” Schon said, adding the firm will suspend any transfer fees for a three-month period.

“Zone 1 will be completed by the end of the year, zone 3 will be the end of next year, and zones 2 and 4 both by the end of 2012.”
Dubai Lagoon is currently two years behind schedule.

Up to 10 percent of Dubai Lagoon investors have defaulted on their payments in the wake of the emirate’s real estate crash, which saw property prices in some areas halve.

“These are people who have paid 15 to 20 percent and would rather walk away than wait,” Schon said. “But most of our buyers are end-users and they did their financial planning."

Schon Properties also confirmed that investors will not be offered a refund on their units, and will not receive a price reduction based on the drop in construction costs seen over the last year.

“We never sold to unreasonable prices. We were selling at AED900 per ft, although the market was at AED1,500, AED1,600. So the answer is no – because our prices were always below the market, in my opinion,” Schon said.

“We can’t facilitate refunds. The priority of our funds is construction, to build the project as soon as possible. We want to deliver this; we’re the biggest loser in any delay. We lose AED1.5m to AED2m for every month we’re delayed.”


----------



## Bobby V

amplesou said:


> This is your first blog on here right !
> ( unless you are banned tysonm or smith11 )
> 
> In my opinion this banned person is already on here with 2 more accounts but lying low at the moment ?
> 
> Why are you so offended ?
> Your first blog on here is 1 month old news!
> 
> Why not take the response and move forward ?
> 
> You go on the offensive by insulting me !
> 
> That is not the response one would get normally from a new member on here !
> 
> Normally one would show more respect to more experienced contributers on here !
> 
> Therefore i am suspicious as to who you really are !
> 
> Why would you being new to this site do this !
> 
> I get more info and pictures than any body else on here but i would be delighted if some body else contributed as much if not more !
> 
> I am most certainly not a snob but i do not suffer fools gladly ?


Mr Amplesou,
I am not trying to insult you, I saw a news item and thought it might be of interest to other people on this site, however, it happened a month ago and I had not seen it, is that so bad? Do I deserve your sarcastic comment because I had made such a terrible mistake?
Just because I am a new member and there are more experienced members on this site doesnt make me a lesser mortal than the rest, i.e. it doesnt make you a better person than me and allow you more privalages in life than other more recent members, I was in the boy scouts for a long time when I was a kid but that doesnt make me a better person than you.
There is also no need to be so suspicious, I am just a Joe public from the UK who has bought a unit in this development, nothing sinister, I'm just a normal bloke.
Well done for your numerous contributions, your lucky to have the time and I think your a great bloke. Keep up the good work.


----------



## amplesou

Bobby V said:


> Mr Amplesou,
> I am not trying to insult you, I saw a news item and thought it might be of interest to other people on this site, however, it happened a month ago and I had not seen it, is that so bad? Do I deserve your sarcastic comment because I had made such a terrible mistake?
> Just because I am a new member and there are more experienced members on this site doesnt make me a lesser mortal than the rest, i.e. it doesnt make you a better person than me and allow you more privalages in life than other more recent members, I was in the boy scouts for a long time when I was a kid but that doesnt make me a better person than you.
> ^^^^^^
> :lol::lol:
> 
> There is also no need to be so suspicious, I am just a Joe public from the UK who has bought a unit in this development, nothing sinister, I'm just a normal bloke.
> Well done for your numerous contributions, your lucky to have the time and I think your a great bloke. Keep up the good work.


sorry for my comments
Which building have you bought in ?


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

tehsin123 said:


> Of course, it is the real experience for me rather than biased statistics. Same statistics say property prices rising, population of dubai going up, employment balooning, airport traffic up by 20%, tourists flooding in. Would you believe all?
> I won't.


I have actually checked the population clock on the Dubai Statistics Centre Website regularly through April and I would say that the population statistics are accurate because if you time by how much the population grows during a day it is different compared to when it's night in Dubai and you can definitely see a slowdown in the growth. So the statistics are not fixed. I would assume that Dubai will grow by approximately 10,000 residents this month as it has 1,809,544 residents now and was on around 1,800,000 at the end of March.


----------



## cayman1

Imre said:


> The biggest risk is SM now, as the gossip says he has serious health problems so what would be with Dubai if the crown prince will be the ruler ?
> 
> Same visions or something else ?



Same Vision ;or better
In 2005 when prince of Principaute' De Monaco Ranieri died the price grew up 300% immedialy till 2008.


----------



## cayman1

dubaimat said:


> Well, as you can see from reading the Gulf News, it is a fact that locals driving on Sheikh Zayed or Emirates Road are killing each other on a daily basis, though their already low number is decreasing further rapidly.
> To reverse that trend, sooner or later (there are rumours the oil will be running out),
> they will be back to using camels including the few commuting to work and the rest to entertain themselves wandering around in an empty mall.:cheers:


Ok you have reason.......


----------



## dubaiprojects

amplesou said:


> sorry for my comments
> Which building have you bought in ?


You two are quite interesting, keep up the momentum, at least we get a smile to read your posts


----------



## nhinvestor

wow, thats what i call a love hate relationship!

ive bought in CRW in venetian. i have no idea when the fnish date will be but going by what you guys have said, late 2010 early 2011 seems to be the expected handover.

can DSC hand over a building where the surrounding areas are not finished? we were sold apartments with the shiny brochures showing DSC in all its glory, but sadly this will be far from the truth in this case. nobody wants to live in a building that looks like a building site.

how is it possible to view the building at least from afar?


----------



## dubaiprojects

nhinvestor said:


> wow, thats what i call a love hate relationship!
> 
> ive bought in CRW in venetian. i have no idea when the fnish date will be but going by what you guys have said, late 2010 early 2011 seems to be the expected handover.
> 
> can DSC hand over a building where the surrounding areas are not finished? we were sold apartments with the shiny brochures showing DSC in all its glory, but sadly this will be far from the truth in this case. nobody wants to live in a building that looks like a building site.
> 
> how is it possible to view the building at least from afar?


It is my personal opinion that it will take another decade at least if at all dsc is to shape what was promised in those shiny brochures. H


----------



## amplesou

:booze::rant::rant:from this october 2008 .



to this april 2010 -18 months on crw is,nt exackly hanging about !



now about those curtains ?
do you know what i think i,ll start off with blinds 
Want to keep the sun off the eloquent furnishings !
:booze: :lol::lol:


----------



## 3smiles1day

Spurs said:


> It wont hurt visiting the site, please take some pic's and put them on this thread.


You bet I will.


----------



## jagmp

My tenant is planning to relocate to another GCC country.He has requested to renew the contract for six months.After that he will pay month by month as he doesn't know exactly when he will be moving out.How can i draft such a contract? What clauses i must include in the contract.

He is a good tenant so far. 

Any suggestion ?:cheers:


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai seize properties from off-plan investors - Investors confidence - Dubai`s Shaky foundations*

The Dubai Land Department may begin seizing off-plan properties whose owners are in default.

The authority has started notifying investors who have defaulted that if they fail to make their outstanding payments within two weeks that 40 per cent of any money they have paid so far will be confiscated, and the properties will be sold at auction.

The confiscated money, along with any profits from the auctions, will be handed over to the developers. The rule applies to projects that are 80 per cent or more complete.

The move, according to Mohammad Sultan Thani, the department’s assistant director general, is intended to spur the completion of unfinished projects. “The idea is to see what we can do before the property is canceled,” he said.


During the property boom, many developers depended on the off-plan model, whereby a property is sold before building work starts to provide finance for construction. Many analysts say the model fuels speculative buying and inflates prices.

A number of developers, including Kuwait’s Al Mazaya Real Estate, which has eight projects in Dubai, have had such cancellation notices issued to investors.

Omar Ramaznouf, a Russian investor who has so far paid Dh10 million (US$2.7m), 60 per cent of the total price, towards 16 office units at Mazaya Business Tower in Jumeirah Lake Towers, recently received one of the Land Department’s notices.

Mr Ramaznouf, who has not made any payments on his development since December 2008, was told in the letter that the developer would be allowed to “sell the related unit by auction in conformity with common regulations, and with the price asked for by the developer in addition to expenses”, unless he paid the next 20 per cent installment within two weeks.

The final installment is due when the properties are handed over.

Mr Ramaznouf said he has been unable to pay some installments because of “cash-flow problems” brought on by the financial crisis. He has been trying to extend his payment plan with Al Mazaya, according to Medhi Guliyev, his business partner.

“But now he’s being told ‘you don’t own this property anymore,’” said Mr Guliyev.

George Ezman, a businessman from the Czech Republic who bought several office units in Jumeirah Business Centre 5, a project by the Dubai developer Al Fajer Properties, has received a similar notice. He has paid 30 per cent of the total cost and is due to pay the remainder on completion.

Mr Ezman complained, however, that the developer breached its agreement by delivering the property more than a year late.

He said that, according to his contract, he had the right to cancel the contract and receive a refund if the property was late.

The building was supposed to be finished in 2008, he said. “I’m not paying any more because the agreement to cancel our contract and get a refund has been ignored. This, along with the fact that they can take our money and keep our property, is insane.”

Spokesmen for Al Mazaya and Al Fajer were unavailable for comment yesterday.

Lawyers working for investors such as Mr Ezman say that while the Land Department can issue cancellation notices, a property agreement can only be officially canceled by the courts.

Mr Thani said the authority had yet to auction any properties and did not believe there would be many such cases. “Very few people will opt for not completing payments if the building is almost ready.”


----------



## Hanna

*Nakheel Manager facing fraud charge - administrative crimes*

DUBAI // Five Nakheel marketing employees and a Ghobash Trading executive have been charged with defrauding Dubai World of more than Dh630,000 (US$171,500) through a bogus marketing deal.

The Emirati marketing manager A J, 35; his Lebanese deputy A M, 38; the Indian executives R S, 39, and J R 56; the Pakistani administrator O M, 27; and the Emirati Ghobash executive A K, 53, were charged with accepting bribes, damaging the public purse, forgery and aiding and abetting a crime using public funds.

They are being tried as public officials, which could earn them heavier sentences if convicted. The marketing manager allegedly accepted a Dh250,000 bribe to execute a phoney deal involving Montblanc gift items.


----------



## dubaiprojects

True Blue said:


> Latest in my tenant from hell saga; http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=55844187&postcount=189
> 
> Times might be hard but don't be panicked into taking a tenant before you have vetted them or had the agent check them out. Agents just want the commission they don't care what rubbish they have just found for you, just that they say they are willing to sign. Even rera are advising that you only use an agent with a pre screening process.
> 
> Although he has moved out, he is still my problem but he has moved to Marina Quays East tower 9th floor so obviously someone took his money and did not bother to ask for a reference from his previous landlord.


It is almost impossible to know in advance about your tenant character in the above case. Thanks god my tenant is really a nice person, but you never know..... 
I read your other post, so are you going to fight him in court? and how much is the deposit amount as compared to how long he stayed in your apartment.
Cheers


----------



## dubaiprojects

jagmp said:


> My tenant is planning to relocate to another GCC country.He has requested to renew the contract for six months.After that he will pay month by month as he doesn't know exactly when he will be moving out.How can i draft such a contract? What clauses i must include in the contract.
> 
> He is a good tenant so far.
> 
> Any suggestion ?:cheers:


I am sure you already have the original/current contract with you.
Have the same contract added with the following clauses and have it signed.

My tenant had been paying yearly 1 cheque and lately we shifted to paying 1 cheque for 6 months and remaining 6 months on a daily basis as he is not sure about his job. 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The Tenancy contact is for a full year starting from xyz 2010 and ends on xyz 2011, however both parties agree that payment of the rent would be as follows:

1. An amount of AED xyz will be paid in advance with one cheque covering first six months. 
And the subsequent payment shall be on monthly basis thereafter (6 post dated monthly cheques) for a period of 6 months.

2. After completion of first 6 months, if tenants intents to vacate the apartment, he will give one month notice or pay an amount equal to one month rent if he wishes to leave immediately.

3. If the tenant exercise the above clause and wishes to leave the apartment after the completion of first six months, either by serving a one month advance notice to the landlord or by paying one month rent, the landlord will not claim the rent for remaining unused period for the second half of the year from the date the tenant intends to vacate
the apartment.


I hope this helps.
cheers


----------



## Freestyler

How do you ask for tenant's reference? And how does that work?


----------



## chefdude

Why 2005 OP prices are a fair valuation?

I've been thinking long and hard about the situation here in Dubai with the horrendous plunge in property prices to below OP values. When I first looked to purchase in Dubai back in 2004 at AED 700 per sq ft in JLT I based my decision on where in the world in a modern and dynamic city could I purchase a similar water front property for that price. The answer was *nowhere* in fact comparing it with European cities it was an absolute bargain.

Then the investors and speculators came along pushing the market valuations 2 - 3 times higher before the crash in end 2008 thru 2009. So in 2010 most properties apart from studios finished or unfinished are selling below the OP price. In terms of bricks and mortar and looking at the place as a home it makes no sense whatsoever. The problem is rooted in the fact that the majority of units are not homes but simply investment tools to generate an income.

People seem to have this figure of 10% yield stuck in their heads and whilst in the boom times that was easily achieved and exceeded, sticking to that figure now there is an overhang in supply and falling rents is crippling the property prices. Surely as market forces change your realistic expectations should change along with them. In many parts of the world 5% ROI is seen as good business so as things are as they are in Dubai now why are people still expecting a 10% return?

If more people actually lived here and the units where homes this situation would not be as bad as it is. The UAE needs to attract more people to live here rather than just work here as nomads. The Federal government needs to think long and hard about a simple and attractive visa situation, where as what they are doing now is the exact opposite. 

Also if people hadn't got so greedy and bought far more units than they could realistically afford to pay for if the market turned we would not have seen the prices fall off a cliff as they stampeeded for the exit. 

The point I am trying to make is that investment in Dubai needs to be approached with a more sensible attitude and a realistic target for ROI. 5% is both reasonable and sustainable and 2 - 3 times higher than sticking your money into any easy access deposit account in most countries. 

A 5% ROI would actually allow properties to be valued at a sensible level instead of where they are today. Food for thought?


----------



## Imre

*Fuel prices may increase further*

Published: 00:00 April 26, 2010

Abu Dhabi: *The four government-owned petrol distribution companies are looking to increase their prices again next month by 15 per cent for petrol and 20 per cent for diesel*, Gulf News has learnt, as efforts continue to lower government subsidies.

Sources at one of the petrol companies, speaking on condition of anonymity because the government has yet to make a formal announcement, said prices of the ‘regular' and ‘special' petrol grades are set to rise by Dh0.23 per litre to Dh1.64 and Dh1.75, respectively.

http://gulfnews.com/business/oil-gas/fuel-prices-may-increase-further-1.617873


----------



## Imre

chefdude said:


> Why 2005 OP prices are a fair valuation?
> 
> A 5% ROI would actually allow properties to be valued at a sensible level instead of where they are today. Food for thought?


I agree with your post , 5 % is not bad but investors will not take risk for it , specially not in the Middle East.

Only way is the attractive residence visa again ,without end users this market will be just standing and prices wont rising for years.


----------



## dubaiprojects

Imre said:


> I agree with your post , 5 % is not bad but investors will not take risk for it , specially not in the Middle East.
> 
> Only way is the attractive residence visa again ,without end users this market will be just standing and prices wont rising for years.


If you invest in Paris, London or New York, will you get a resident visa, the one that people are asking against their properties in UAE?

If yes, then I agree with you, investors will not risk in dubai, for 5% return.
If answer is No, then why insist that Dubai is obliged to grant such a resident visa. 

What developers advetised.offered back in 2004-2008 was an exaggeration...

In my opinion, UAE will never issue the kind of flexible resident visa that most of us wanted to have, instead you will get some level of resident visa with all the conditions that will at minimum allow you to visit your property and enjoy vacation, but do not plan to accept resident visa which will let you live here like an immigrant, i guess....

Cheers


----------



## houshang

Security issue is what which is holding back UAE government from implementing a residency visa similar to those on offer previously.


----------



## Imre

*Property chief eyes real estate recovery*

*CEO of MAG Group Property Development outlines proposals to help Dubai’s housing market thrive once again*










The CEO of MAG Group Property Development, Mohammed Nimer, believes improved liquidity, greater transparency and tougher regulations will be key to the recovery of Dubai’s real estate market.

Nimer, talking yesterday at the Infrastructure and Property Development MEA Summit at the Park Hyatt Dubai hotel, also explained that liquidity and issues surrounding visas will also play important roles.

When addressing the issues of transparency and liquidity, Nimer told the audience at the Park Hyatt Dubai hotel: “Improved liquidity, greater transparency and tougher regulations are needed more than ever to reassure and protect legitimate investors seeking a reasonable reward for a reasonable risk.
“Critical in my view from an investment perspective will be affordability, transparency, return on investment and trustworthy partners. If recent events have taught us anything it is that we must operate in an environment of complete transparency and robust regulation.

“But improved liquidity is also vital to recovery. Transparency and regulation inspire confidence but liquidity makes sales. Mortgage facilities, registration of owners’ association, REITs entering the market can be expected to fuel transactional activity in the coming years,” added Nimer during his presentation entitled “Improving the properties framework to attract and retain investors”.

During his presentation on day one of the three-day summit, the CEO outlined suggestions including relaxing visa rules to attract international investors, who are still nervous following the global financial crisis.

“The relaxation of visa rules is a federal issue but it needs to be consistent and investor friendly. Malaysia and Thailand lead emerging markets in encouraging international property buyers and as such this country could learn from them,” explained Nimer.

“The UAE also needs to attract more expatriate workers and foreign companies as the future depends on population growth and increasing business relationships with rest of world.”

Nimer also outlined how this year will set the precedent for the future, highlighting the need for action to encourage the green shoots of recovery in the local real estate market to flourish.

“The UAE needs to go back to basics. Solid market fundamentals as opposed to sentiment are always at the heart of a sustainable recovery and 2010 is a crucial year for determining the direction of the UAE’s real estate industry as the world pursues post-crisis recovery,” he said.

More info here:

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/04/ceo-of-mag-group-property-development.html


----------



## tehsin123

dubaiprojects said:


> If you invest in Paris, London or New York, will you get a resident visa, the one that people are asking against their properties in UAE?
> 
> If yes, then I agree with you, investors will not risk in dubai, for 5% return.
> If answer is No, then why insist that Dubai is obliged to grant such a resident visa.



Try to convince this to half a million investors in the market. Will they listen to this argument? Whatever mob thinks is correct, no logic, no reason. Mob thinks that there should be a residency status to invest in this market. STOP.


----------



## Mistermark

dubaiprojects said:


> If you invest in Paris, London or New York, will you get a resident visa, the one that people are asking against their properties in UAE?
> 
> If yes, then I agree with you, investors will not risk in dubai, for 5% return.
> If answer is No, then why insist that Dubai is obliged to grant such a resident visa.
> 
> What developers advetised.offered back in 2004-2008 was an exaggeration...
> 
> In my opinion, UAE will never issue the kind of flexible resident visa that most of us wanted to have, instead you will get some level of resident visa with all the conditions that will at minimum allow you to visit your property and enjoy vacation, but do not plan to accept resident visa which will let you live here like an immigrant, i guess....
> 
> Cheers


I accept that people who buy properties in places like the UK, US and France don't automatically get residency visas. However, these are long-established countries with substantial native populations and diversified economies. 

In contrast, Dubai has maybe 150k Emiratis - all of whom get free homes, courtesy of Sheikh Mo and the oil money - and, at the peak, perhaps 1.2m workers on short-term visas, of whom perhaps half were labourers living in tied accommodation, leaving maybe 600k ex-pats.

People whose entitlement to remain in a country is by definition linked to their continuing employment and has to be renewed periodically, subject to rules that can and do change, are unlikely to buy homes in a country. Nor are they likely to put down routes there. Much of the money they spend and invest will be 'back home'.

If Dubai wants a resilient economy in which the tax-free incomes of ex-pat workers is invested into the local economy and where people can put down roots independent of their employment status (for instance, if they lose their jobs, they stay, set up new businesses, and create employment, or they retire), long-term residency visas are a must. Only when these are forthcoming will Dubai be a place where owner-occupation becomes widespread in the freehold areas.


----------



## Imre

houshang said:


> Security issue is what which is holding back UAE government from implementing a residency visa similar to those on offer previously.


What kind of security?

If you have a passport and 30.000 AED you can open a free zone company in RAK and after few days you will have a 3 years residence visa.

You dont need to do anything here just pay the renewing fee every year, this is the security?


----------



## dubaiprojects

Imre said:


> What kind of security?
> 
> If you have a passport and 30.000 AED you can open a free zone company in RAK and after few days you will have a 3 years residence visa.
> 
> You dont need to do anything here just pay the renewing fee every year, this is the security?


is it 30k every year or every 3 years?
And what about a family with say 4 members, it would be too costly for them or is 30k covers all in all?
cheers


----------



## Freestyler

Mistermark said:


> I accept that people who buy properties in places like the UK, US and France don't automatically get residency visas. However, these are long-established countries with substantial native populations and diversified economies.
> 
> In contrast, Dubai has maybe 150k Emiratis - all of whom get free homes, courtesy of Sheikh Mo and the oil money - and, at the peak, perhaps 1.2m workers on short-term visas, of whom perhaps half were labourers living in tied accommodation, leaving maybe 600k ex-pats.
> 
> People whose entitlement to remain in a country is by definition linked to their continuing employment and has to be renewed periodically, subject to rules that can and do change, are unlikely to buy homes in a country. Nor are they likely to put down routes there. Much of the money they spend and invest will be 'back home'.
> 
> If Dubai wants a resilient economy in which the tax-free incomes of ex-pat workers is invested into the local economy and where people can put down roots independent of their employment status (for instance, if they lose their jobs, they stay, set up new businesses, and create employment, or they retire), long-term residency visas are a must. Only when these are forthcoming will Dubai be a place where owner-occupation becomes widespread in the freehold areas.


That will create huge immigration problems in the long-term; and it is not sound to base property market based on visa, it is again not based on fundamental economic value. It will be a step in wrong direction. What Dubai has to do is to improve laws so it is very difficult for developers to cheat investors, diversify economy (e.g. build something like Disney Land, Dubai has access to 2billion population; improve business and service sectors, for example, there is no decent data center here for small businesses, co-location is so expensive here even though there is cheap labor and no taxes; etc...) Dubai needs to work on to build solid economy which creates jobs here.

Although, I believe govt should allow visa for properties lunched pre-2008 because many people bought those properties for visa, laws were not clear, and developers were not fined or punished for advertising visas with properties. So it is only fair to let those investors/properties have residence visa with some pre-conditions of health insurance and minimum amount of investment.

And retires should be allowed visa too, i mean, those type of people relatively cause least trouble in a country. They are too old to cause trouble hehehe


----------



## chefdude

This country is sorely in need of imigrants the population simply has to increase to allow the country to grow and develop economicaly and socialy. The transient worker population does nothing but fill apartment space as soon as the job finishes you are kicked out unless you find another job. Unless more people are allowed to settle here on a long term basis the future for the UAE is bleak. I am not talking about getting a GCC passport just having the right to live here for the next 5 years at least would be a sensible start. How can you expect to develop a world class city with a population of 150,000?

The developers did nothing wrong in advertising 3 year visas as that is what the government was backing until late 2008. I was lucky enough to get one of those visas which still has 14 months left to run. The Federal government of the UAE then did a U turn and has come up with this crazy 6 month conditions based visa. 

Dubai is several years ahead of Abu Dhabi in terms of delivered units but unless something is done then AD will find the same story of falling rents and property prices and unihabited units in the not to distant future.


----------



## TerryPop

I actually think encouraging longer term residency will increase loyalty and investment to the good of Dubai.

*I mean if you keep telling everyone they are in transit you create a massive culture of insecurity and a grab 'n run mentality.*



Furthermore all the expats in this transit society have a mild feeling they are in Dubai for its good but not really wanted, 'merely tolerated' and the divide gets even worse.



I would be working very hard to crack down on the variables that create a 'them' and 'us' environment.















chefdude said:


> This country is sorely in need of imigrants the population simply has to increase to allow the country to grow and develop economicaly and socialy. The transient worker population does nothing but fill apartment space as soon as the job finishes you are kicked out unless you find another job. Unless more people are allowed to settle here on a long term basis the future for the UAE is bleak. I am not talking about getting a GCC passport just having the right to live here for the next 5 years at least would be a sensible start. How can you expect to develop a world class city with a population of 150,000?
> 
> The developers did nothing wrong in advertising 3 year visas as that is what the government was backing until late 2008. I was lucky enough to get one of those visas which still has 14 months left to run. The Federal government of the UAE then did a U turn and has come up with this crazy 6 month conditions based visa.
> 
> Dubai is several years ahead of Abu Dhabi in terms of delivered units but unless something is done then AD will find the same story of falling rents and property prices and unihabited units in the not to distant future.


----------



## TerryPop

By keeping all the expats in a temporary limbo-esque environment you are also (i think unintentionally) uniting them in a common cause & state of discomfort....

Think out of the box and you might find long term residency has an extremely favourable effect on the UAE.


----------



## amplesou

We will be the first to move in next week ,don,t care about the building site !
:nuts::nuts:


:lol::lol::lol::lol::nuts:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## noir-dresses

It's a very me, me, give me, give me mentality.


----------



## bizzybonita

dubaiprojects said:


> is it 30k every year or every 3 years?
> And what about a family with say 4 members, it would be too costly for them or is 30k covers all in all?
> cheers


it's an fully package for opening company not involve any of employment Residential visa fees. including : (RAK/Ajman)

1)*License management trading* (average between 5-12k) yearly 
2)*Office/Retail rent* ( average between 25-35k) ( 1 bed / not more then 150-200 seqfeet )

#)Residential visa is extra charge for each one between 2500-3000 Dhr (as employment visa) *"could be less then this amount.*


----------



## Freestyler

chefdude said:


> This country is sorely in need of imigrants the population simply has to increase to allow the country to grow and develop economicaly and socialy. The transient worker population does nothing but fill apartment space as soon as the job finishes you are kicked out unless you find another job. Unless more people are allowed to settle here on a long term basis the future for the UAE is bleak. I am not talking about getting a GCC passport just having the right to live here for the next 5 years at least would be a sensible start. How can you expect to develop a world class city with a population of 150,000?
> 
> The developers did nothing wrong in advertising 3 year visas as that is what the government was backing until late 2008. I was lucky enough to get one of those visas which still has 14 months left to run. The Federal government of the UAE then did a U turn and has come up with this crazy 6 month conditions based visa.
> 
> Dubai is several years ahead of Abu Dhabi in terms of delivered units but unless something is done then AD will find the same story of falling rents and property prices and unihabited units in the not to distant future.


Giving residence visa on property will not solve real issues. In the beginning it will look like a solution but later if it attracts too many people than crime and trash will make the city worse. Nothing wrong with giving permanent residency to people who are contributing to Dubai, and make this city another home for them. I'm all for that, but giving residency visa on property purchase will make it open season. 

It will not solve important law issues, but it will push these problems further down the road. For example, the licencing policy by DMCC thats not gonna get fixed by resident visa. 

Services of many companies is crap here, go to their CRM they don't know how to serve a customer. 

Developers are riping owners with service charges and making profit, crazy stuff.

Prices are expensive for many services if not crap, one I mentioned, co-location. These are important issues needs to be resolved for businesses and economy, bringing more immigrants here doesn't solve these.


----------



## GreenKiwi

The AMLAK loss for the last financial year reported in the National today but they have still not taken the write down on the value of their property investments !!! I guess they did not want to see the headlines of mega losses.


----------



## Imre

*Lootah appointed Nakheel's new chairman of the board*

*Ali Rashid Lootah takes over as chairman as O'Donnell dropped from board*

By Yazad Darasha, Business News Editor
Published: 13:40 March 30, 2010

Dubai: Property developer Nakheel, a subsidiary of Dubai World, on Tuesday named Ali Rashid Ahmad Lootah as its new chairman in a restructuring that also added four other members to the board. Lootah is also the vice-chairman of mashreq.

The new members include Khalid Mohammad Salim Bakheit, Khalil Eisa Ahmad Awad, Adel Khalifa Al Shaer, and Ebrahim Hussain Al Fardan.

A Nakheel spokesperson confirmed to Gulf News that Chris O'Donnell will no longer be a member of the board but will continue to be its chief executive. A person close to the situation indicated, however, that the reconstituted board may consider appointing a new executive head.

Efforts to contact O'Donnell yesterday were unsuccessful.

The announcement follows on the heels of a financial restructuring plan proposed by Dubai World and Nakheel on Thursday. The proposal envisages, among other things, equitisation of $8 billion (Dh29.42 billion) by the Dubai Government, through the Dubai Financial Support Fund, or DFSF.

"The new board of directors will continue to work on strengthening Nakheel's capabilities in the framework of the restructuring announced on Thursday," the company said in a statement yesterday.

‘Obligations'

"The board will identify and develop the projects according to the company's priorities and carry out its different obligations towards all parties," the statement added.

Dubai World Chairman Sultan Ahmad Bin Sulayem said: "We welcome the new Nakheel board which will work on the operational level, and [we] will give it our full support."

Nakheel's assets, which include the three Palm projects, The World and Dubai Waterfront, were valued at more than $110 billion at the end of 2008.

Dubai World's overall plan to restructure $24.8 billion of its borrowings has won tentative support from its banks.

Under the financial restructuring proposal, the DFSF will commit to providing approximately $8 billion of new money directly to Nakheel to fund operations and settle liabilities.

The government support is contingent upon Nakheel securing agreement on the plan from its creditors.

http://gulfnews.com/business/general/lootah-appointed-nakheel-s-new-chairman-of-the-board-1.605375


----------



## Pleth

Imre said:


> *Fuel prices may increase further*
> 
> Published: 00:00 April 26, 2010
> 
> Abu Dhabi: *The four government-owned petrol distribution companies are looking to increase their prices again next month by 15 per cent for petrol and 20 per cent for diesel*, Gulf News has learnt, as efforts continue to lower government subsidies.
> 
> Sources at one of the petrol companies, speaking on condition of anonymity because the government has yet to make a formal announcement, said prices of the ‘regular' and ‘special' petrol grades are set to rise by Dh0.23 per litre to Dh1.64 and Dh1.75, respectively.
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/business/oil-gas/fuel-prices-may-increase-further-1.617873


I read that too, it is awful. We have just had 11% raise, now another 15% = 26% raise in one month! :bash:


----------



## chefdude

Some consolation then that 25% of bugger all is still not very much!

AED 7.5 per gallon is the price of a litre in most other countries be thankful for small mercy. I can just see all those Jumeirah Jane's rushing to trade in their gas guzzling Porsche Cayenne and Range Rover sport for a nice economical Toyota Yaris :shocked:


----------



## amplesou

have a look at these 
Think these are the same as on web site but hey its bigger here!:nuts:


[


----------



## Bobby V

I have received an email this morning from D.S.C. requesting I make a further payment installment to them as all buildings at C.R.W. have achieved 72.25% completion.
Has it reached this stage? It doesnt look like it from the website.
What are the implications of refusing to pay them?


----------



## cayman1

Sale or Admin why have you changed website to put photo ?


----------



## Ali_Syed

amplesou, you going to get banned from The Cube i think! it will be shame in few years time when the cube hotel will be fully open and i will be sitting on the podium caffe sipping coffee, and you would only be able to wave me hello from the lake!


----------



## Ali_Syed

Bobby, you have 2 options. either go by new RERA approved payment plan, or stick to your original contract payment plan. you have to take up anyone of these.. so its up to you.

and if your original plan also says that you are due for more payment now, then i suggest you do that.


----------



## amplesou

Bobby V said:


> I have received an email this morning from D.S.C. requesting I make a further payment installment to them as all buildings at C.R.W. have achieved 72.25% completion.
> Has it reached this stage? It doesnt look like it from the website.
> What are the implications of refusing to pay them?


We have in our posession a copy of rera certificate stateting 72% that is correct !

You can request a copy if you contact dsc .

Percentage does seem to vary from building to building ?


----------



## amplesou

Ali_Syed said:


> amplesou, you going to get banned from The Cube i think! it will be shame in few years time when the cube hotel will be fully open and i will be sitting on the podium caffe sipping coffee, and you would only be able to wave me hello from the lake!


^^^^:lol::lol:


----------



## Bobby V

N
The pictures uploaded on the website are taken last week, we have also sent you the independent construction progress report from Rera which clearly certifies that 72.25% building is completed. Therefore the legitimacy of this % completion not being achieved cannot be questioned. In line with the rera plan at this point of time 75% payment is due failure to make the payments will result in commencement of default proceedings. 

Aamir Khan
Senior Real Estate Sales Consultant 
Dubai Sports City
P.O. Box 111123
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

E: [email protected]
T: +971 4 425 1200 
D: +971 4 425 1201
F: +971 4 425 1103
M: +971 50 774 1290


----------



## amplesou

Aamir is correct 
So just aline your payments with completion so far !
75%


----------



## amplesou

Bobby V said:


> Last post sent without me adding to it, the text is an email received from DSC, sounds very aggressive, does it not matter they are years late with delivery? Its all one way traffic, on their side


We don,t know if your tone was aggresive or not !
( it can be )

But to be fair to dsc they where first on the scene with rera based payments 
and have adjusted on more than three occasions our
payment plan !


----------



## 234sale

I do not work for Skyscrapercity.com, I just moderate articles and enforce the rules.

Recently I had an issue with Dubizzle letting agents use photographs of mine with out permission to advertise property. I cannot rely on support from this website to challenge anyone , so I set up a website bases in the UK for the purpose of doing things my way, which I own and co-run.

Sorry for any confussion.


----------



## Jondubai

I have already paid them 80% so hell ya everyone pay up :banana: hahahahahahahaha


----------



## jeetha

Dubai_Steve said:


> £1 = AED 5.3379 and dropping further!


Your final payments must be due Steve. I managed to get 5.63 (last week of April).
Wait for next week…….. maybe better.


----------



## True Blue

We need to establish a government before there is any chance of £ strengthening again. At this point HMS United Kingdom has no captain and is on an autopilot system developed 100 years ago. The current situation suits me as it's now a good time to cash a rent cheque

BTW, I think I was the only person in Scotland that voted Torykay: Mine is the house with the Union Jack flying next to the picture of the Queen and SPL title holders..:laugh:


----------



## Hanna

*Only person in Scotland*

Hi 


I don't think you are the only one BTW !















True Blue said:


> We need to establish a government before there is any chance of £ strengthening again. At this point HMS United Kingdom has no captain and is on an autopilot system developed 100 years ago. The current situation suits me as it's now a good time to cash a rent cheque
> 
> BTW, I think I was the only person in Scotland that voted Torykay: Mine is the house with the Union Jack flying next to the picture of the Queen and SPL title holders..:laugh:


----------



## Mistermark

The rumours are that there won't be an announcement until after Cameron has met with his MPs at 6pm on Monday, at the very earliest. So Monday's markets will probably be mayhem. Definitely a buying opportunity.

FWIW I'm fairly heavily involved in politics (I'm not saying which party, but you can probably guess...) and I am sure that a deal will be done that offers the country stability at a crucial time, led by a Prime Minister that the markets will have confidence in.

The rumours I'm hearing suggest that it could be that only the outline of a deal - a letter of intent or similar - will be announced on Monday night or first thing Tuesday. I'm not sure how the market will react to this, it will probably depend on the detail of what it contains, so I couldn't predict which way things will go thereafter - could be even better deals to be had, or perhaps prices will rally from Monday's low, I'm not sure.


----------



## gerald.d

Mistermark said:


> The rumours are that there won't be an announcement until after Cameron has met with his MPs at 6pm on Monday, at the very earliest. So Monday's markets will probably be mayhem. Definitely a buying opportunity.
> 
> FWIW I'm fairly heavily involved in politics (I'm not saying which party, but you can probably guess...)


I knew it. I fucking knew it! 

You're Peter Mandelson, aren't you!


----------



## 234sale

Mistermark said:


> The rumours are that there won't be an announcement until after Cameron has met with his MPs at 6pm on Monday, at the very earliest. So Monday's markets will probably be mayhem. Definitely a buying opportunity.


So all that cash being created by the government, being pumped into the stock market through the banking institutions owned by government, will stop.
All those cheap loans being supported by the goverment, will also be stopped.
Interest rates will rise and the public forced to repay that massive debt..

People rioting as they majority didn't vote for the Tories, though they are the only government that can be formed, unless everyone else gangs together..
Interesting times,, 

New Paradigm or back to a older one?


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> So all that cash being created by the government, being pumped into the stock market through the banking institutions owned by government, will stop.
> All those cheap loans being supported by the goverment, will also be stopped.
> Interest rates will rise and the public forced to repay that massive debt..
> 
> People rioting as they majority didn't vote for the Tories, though they are the only government that can be formed, unless everyone else gangs together..
> Interesting times,,
> 
> New Paradigm or back to a older one?


Back to the feudal system hopefully. Lords of the manor, tithing, a proper class system respected by the proletariat, etc etc etc.


----------



## 234sale

gerald.d said:


> Back to the feudal system hopefully. Lords of the manor, tithing, a proper class system respected by the proletariat, etc etc etc.


^^ Remind me how China and India became the new global leaders.


----------



## ASIFamin

Hi 
My email address is [email protected]


----------



## maddie

Datok said:


> Recently I have been to DSC office, and came to know that Profile will be starting soon, and they are trying to negotiate with the investors, I don't know what kind of negotiation. But you will be hearing soon.


Does anybody have any updates. Does anybody know if work has started or will be commencing soon??.


----------



## Mistermark

gerald.d said:


> I knew it. I fucking knew it!
> 
> You're Peter Mandelson, aren't you!


The Prince of Darkness? Au contraire, I'm on the other side, me .


----------



## Mistermark

234sale said:


> So all that cash being created by the government, being pumped into the stock market through the banking institutions owned by government, will stop.
> All those cheap loans being supported by the goverment, will also be stopped.
> Interest rates will rise and the public forced to repay that massive debt..
> 
> People rioting as they majority didn't vote for the Tories, though they are the only government that can be formed, unless everyone else gangs together..
> Interesting times,,
> 
> New Paradigm or back to a older one?


I doubt there will be further quantitative easing, irrespective of the outcome of the post-Election negotiations. There are no cheap loans being supported by the Government - if you mean the Enterprise Finance Guarantee Scheme, this is a theoretically optional underwriting of loans to businesses which most banks are now insisting companies have, even if they also offer personal and/or secured guarantees, and it costs the companies 1.5-2 percent in additional interest. So it's more security for the banks and no benefit to companies.

IMHO interest rates will rise at some point next year, again irrespective of who's in Government (not least because the Bank of England is, and is likely to remain, independent in this matter). And yes, the public will have to repay the massive debt, whoever is in power.

While it's true that most people didn't vote Conservative, fewer voted for any of the other parties, and it's clear that the public has no appetite for more of the same. Even if all other parties ganged together, they would still have a very fragile power base, be heavily in the pockets of the nationalists, and I think the electorate would feel it had been scammed. And while the LibDems might get their beloved PR, the country would in my view lack a credible and strong Government in the midst of what could be a sovereign debt crisis and at a time when our debt is amongst the world's highest as a percentage of GDP.


----------



## natoush

Hey, DEC has removed construction progress on its LAWNS sites. Have they cancelled the project and returning our money  
Or have they simply packed up and skipped off back to Mumbai :{


----------



## Imre

*Dubai in first property price rise since 2008*

Angela Giuffrida

Last Updated: May 09. 2010 10:02PM UAE / May 9. 2010 6:02PM GMT Property prices in Dubai rose an average of 2 per cent in the first quarter of this year from the same period last year, marking the first year-on-year increase since the emirate’s property bubble burst in late 2008, according to Colliers International.

First-quarter prices were also up by 4 per cent from the fourth quarter of last year, the third consecutive quarterly increase, the property consultancy said.

The average price of property rose to Dh1,061 (US$288) per square foot in the first quarter from Dh1,022 in the previous quarter.

Apartment prices increased by 6 per cent over the period and villa prices were 2 per cent higher.

The price of town houses, however, fell by 4 per cent.

Prices were now where they were in early 2007, Colliers said. They surged by as much as 43 per cent in the first three months of 2008 as speculators bought and sold off-plan properties.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100509/BUSINESS/705099886/1005/rss


----------



## GreenKiwi

I think the Colliers research is probably based on a few transactions and seems crap. No way are prices at early 2007 levels !!


----------



## shagdash

^^
And I don't understand how prices have risen either. Tracking the 3 bed villa segment in select localities (Springs/Arabian Ranches) in Dubai, I can say that the asking for a Type 2 villa in Springs was not below 2.2 mil in Jan/Feb 2010. Today these are advertised at 2 mil. That's a 10% drop.
The asking for Type 3 Springs villas was 1.9-2.1 mil during the same period (Jan/Feb 2010). Now they're being advertised for 1.7 mil (This week's Freehold).
Advertised prices have dropped by 10%+ in 2Q 2010. If there are any transactions happening, I wonder what is the actual price being transacted at?


----------



## Imre

shagdash said:


> If there are any transactions happening, I wonder what is the actual price being transacted at?


I spoke with some agents and they said only few transactions and mostly just distressed sales.

Rent still good but less people coming to Dubai now , most of rent from relocations, people moving from Sharjah, Ajman, International City , etc..


----------



## DXBQuantum

Imre, I speak to agents all the time, the ones I work / talk with are still doing plenty of Business? 

Greens, Palm, Marina, Downtown still doing well..


----------



## glover

agree with imre, shagdash and greenkiwi's views of the condition of the real estate market today. few weeks ago i sold a 2 bed emaar apt in the marina with partial sea and marina views for 1,000 psqf after sitting on the market for 4 months. what we have here is early 2006 prices, but with a negative twist, plenty of supply and very few buyers out there. which means prices have some room to still go down giving the anticipated fresh supply coming into the market over the next two years.

i also have noticed that asking prices have dropped 10-15% in the last few months.

the market dynamics today are purely a matter of supply and demand, which is healthy imo for the long term.


----------



## Pleth

Imre said:


> *Dubai in first property price rise since 2008*
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100509/BUSINESS/705099886/1005/rss


Haven't we just heard that before? 
Every 3 months they write this!


----------



## amplesou

Cube Cam banned me !
now there back to password and user name again so i guess i,m no longer banned !
Ah well i.ll wait till they nod off again in a couple of weeks ?
Any ideas !
:bash:


----------



## 3smiles1day

Less people are keen in getting their money back nor suggesting a group effort to approach Aristocrat. I wonder why!


PJA Lover said:


> What do you mean ?


----------



## Spurs

Did you get any pic's 3smiles1day???


----------



## Imre

From the world section by Ni3lS :


*+++ PLEASE CREDIT CONSTRUCTION UPDATES AND PICTURES +++ *

Please credit construction updates you found on the internet people! A lot of you people out there think that you only have to credit pictures in the photoforums so fail to credit pictures in this section. 

You probably realized what happened recently, Flickr blocked skyscrapercity which means that pictures from Flickr don't display on our forum anymore and you all know how many members use Flickr to find construction updates and so on. So this is pretty much like a disaster for our forum. I know most people don't pay attention to announcements so that's why I created this sticky thread.

We can make this go away if we credit all pictures and pictures you forgot to credit in the past. Respect people's copyright and link back to Flickr.com.

ALSO for people who are posting their own construction updates in this forum but uploaded their pictures via Flickr, please link back! 

*so PLEASE CREDIT PICTURES!*

Thank you,
The WDN Mod Squad. 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1130169


----------



## Philippa C

Nakheel has stopped issuing NOCs for the sale of any properties in projects having consolidations. Does anyone know what is the reason for this and when they will start issuing NOCs again. Thanks


----------



## Hanna

*Terms of tenancy agreements get tougher*

Find a replacement or forfeit your remaining rent if you vacate mid-way, brokers tell tenants.


Most brokers refuse to incorporate lease break clauses in their residential rental contracts. Picture only for illustrative purposes. (EB FILE)

Some real estate brokers in Dubai are incorporating clauses such as finding replacement tenants, or forego rent for the remaining period if a person loses his job, prospective tenants told Emirates Business.

"Brokers are asking us to find a replacement in case we happen to lose our job. And if we fail to find one, then we have to forfeit the entire rent," said SP, who has been searching for an apartment in Bur Dubai and Karama area.

Generally, tenants have to give two to three months' notice, as per their contract, if they want to terminate their lease. However, brokers now say post-dated cheques will not be returned unless a replacement is found.

In January, Sharjah amended its tenancy law, allowing tenants to exit their contracts for reasons beyond their control by paying 30 per cent of the amount due for the remainder of the contract. According to a prospective tenant, some brokers were also asking them to bring a company letter to verify their employment status. "I have been asked by some brokers to furnish a letter from my company, saying 'I am employed with them'," SP added.

Although rent-free periods are being offered to lure tenants, most brokers refuse to incorporate lease break clauses in their residential rental contracts.

"No one is willing to alter or change their contract terms and incorporate break clauses. We have no option but to sign contracts that have been prepared by them [brokers]," another prospective tenant said.

Besides, brokers have shirked their responsibility of getting residential rental contracts registered with the ejari, the e-registration portal of Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera).

"They said we [brokers] will not register the contracts with Rera and if it was required then tenants have to get it done themselves," the prospective tenant added.

In April, Mohammad Khalifa Ahmed bin Hammad, Director of the Real Estate Relationship Regulating Department, Rera, told this newspaper that registration of residential and commercial rental contracts was mandatory through the ejari system.


----------



## 3smiles1day

Spurs said:


> Did you get any pic's 3smiles1day???


I will be there next week. I will drop by the site office at the same time. Any questions that you guys might want me to ask Aristocrat?


----------



## PJA Lover

3smiles1day said:


> I will be there next week. I will drop by the site office at the same time. Any questions that you guys might want me to ask Aristocrat?


Hi, well there is more than one question, but the most important one is, how are they going to deliver by the end of this year when they have'nt started yet hno: also the same by the end of next year !

Isn't it wise that they refund people money because they know and we know that this project is not happening and will not happen and a clear breach of contract from their side is happening.

Please let us know what will you see (photos will be very helpful) and the outcome of your meeting, wish you best of luck.


----------



## dubaiprojects

*Need help*

Deleted. Sorry for any inconvinience.


----------



## Imre

Philippa C said:


> Nakheel has stopped issuing NOCs for the sale of any properties in projects having consolidations. Does anyone know what is the reason for this and when they will start issuing NOCs again. Thanks


They are issuing some tenders now so it seems few projects will restart soon.

I think this is the reason.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Natalie and Sean Calder are, more or less, your typical western expats in Dubai. They live in Marina Residence, adjacent to Shaikh Zayed Road in Dubai Marina, and intend to work here for a few years to save some money and then return to their homeland, New Zealand. Although they're not fussed about living in an apartment, they found that last year's decline in rents presented an opportunity to upgrade.



Decline in rents

"We moved over here from JLT (Jumeirah Lakes Towers) because the rents had dropped," Natalie says, looking across Shaikh Zayed Road at her former home.

"We pay roughly the same rent for a one-bedroom apartment as we did at JLT, but we now pay four cheques instead of one, and our lifestyle is so much better." On their doorstep are the Dubai Marina Yacht Club, several cafes and a supermarket. They are also within walking distance of hotels, the beach, and The Walk. Every evening, they enjoy a stroll along the Marina.

"We would never walk in JLT," she says. "You'd have to dodge trucks, buses and bulldozers — it's a construction site." Dubai's rental decline resulted in many tenants upgrading rather than negotiating better deals with existing landlords. And there's no better example of this than the exodus from JLT to Dubai Marina. One development mostly complete, the other a work in progress - you could say JLT is the ‘poor man's Marina'.

One reason for the divide is that JLT is less developed, explains Sylvia O'Connor, senior leasing consultant, Better Homes. "Until we see amenities, landscaping, shops and restaurants come online, most people will prefer Dubai Marina and Jumeirah Beach Residence (JBR) over JLT."

http://gulfnews.com/business/features/the-abc-of-jlt-1.623178


----------



## speculator

^^^^
Tempting as it was some time ago I'm glad i didnt take the plunge to invest in JLT. Its been over hyped like the rest of Dubai but ultimately its always the best location that wins ; crisis or no crisis.


----------



## ASIFamin

Dear All
any update.................

regards
ASIF


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> "We would never walk in JLT," she says. "You'd have to dodge trucks, buses and bulldozers — it's a construction site." Dubai's rental decline resulted in many tenants upgrading rather than negotiating better deals with existing landlords. And there's no better example of this than the exodus from JLT to Dubai Marina. One development mostly complete, the other a work in progress - *you could say JLT is the ‘poor man's Marina'.*


So last year they were poor and now became rich? :lol:


----------



## Pooja

Hi Naukhez, as requested by you - I have sent you an email today. Pls respond.

All, we spoke to the developer again a few days back and the answer is the same. Funding has been refused by 2 banks and they are in talks with a third one now. Until funding comes through, no work will happen.

We were informed that a lot of people had not paid their due instalments and that was also causing constraint in finances.

Again, they said they were unable to give a date for resumption of work. Said to check back in 2 weeks.

The only assurance they gave was that they would not abandon the project having completed so much and even with delay, they would complete. Not that that helps us much 

Regards,
Pooja


----------



## Imre

*MAG Group hands over AED450 million tower in Dubai Marina*

*Dubai-based developer completes 66 storey MAG 218 residential tower – all 555 apartments now ready for residents to move in *










The MAG 218 residential tower, built at a cost of AED450 million and consisting of 555 apartments spread over 66 floors, is now complete and ready to be handed over to residents following the official opening ceremony yesterday (Saturday 15 May). 

Commenting on the handover, Mohammed Nimer, CEO of MAG Group Property Development, said: “We have maintained a consistent vision, communicating transparently. We have stood by our strategy through thick and thin which has underscored our commitment to our customers and our confidence in delivering our promise.”

Almost 90% of MAG 218 tower was sold out within months of its 2006 launch, with many investors initially paying an average of AED750,000 – 850,000 for a one-bedroom apartment. Today, despite falling prices over the past two years, the apartments have still appreciated, on average by at least 10%. Indeed competitive rental returns can be achieved due to the realistic original selling price. 

Due to MAG Group’s strategic pricing, more than 70% of the owners are end users clearly keeping speculators at bay. The typical profile of residents consists of young professionals in their early thirties and to date MAG Group has not received any cancellations whatsoever. 

“So far we have not received any notices’ of cancellation, which in the current climate is quite remarkable. However it does highlight the sustainable demand for quality mid-priced accommodation,” said Nimer. 

In terms of service fees, again through MAGme the property management arm of MAG Group, rates are very competitive at less than AED10 per square foot per annum.

“This which compares favourably with other developments in the vicinity,” said Nimer. 

Full-floor show-apartments located on the first floor of the MAG 218 Tower were opened in June 2008, so that owners could check out the quality of the interior finish, plus other interior fittings such as lights, built-in kitchen units & white goods, wardrobes and bathroom fixtures. 

“Frequent online photo-updates were also posted on to the MAG Group website to further reassure overseas investors,” added Nimer. 

The tower, which comprises 333 one-bedroom apartments and 222 two-bedroom apartments and six retail outlets, comes complete with 572 covered car parking spaces and an outdoor Olympic sized swimming pool. The top five floors feature a full glass exterior, which afford spectacular panoramic views of the Marina, Palm Jumeirah and beyond. 

A dedicated recreational facilities and community floor houses a state-of-the-art gym, event and dining hall, TV room and an outdoor terrace. 

The residential tower is strategically located close to all of the facilities in Dubai Marina and only five minutes’ walk from Dubai’s Internet City and Media City. The tower also forms an integral part of MAG Group’s development strategy to construct competitively priced buildings aimed at the mid-range market and appealing to Dubai’s middle income families. 

Original pics and more info here:

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/05/mag-group-hands-over-aed450-million.html


----------



## JVSjlt

*Imre*

Work suspended ,few more years delay inevitable.Be aware of new trap from Bonyan who is cash traped.


----------



## 234sale

http://www.exchange-rates.org/history/AED/GBP/G












http://www.exchange-rates.org/history/AED/EUR/G











Just sent some back to blighty


----------



## DXBQuantum

Me to  (not to blighty though!)


----------



## rye787

So which one, euro or pound, will reach parity with the US dollar first? Thanks to Greece, the Euro has a head start.... but, IMHO, the brits will crash and burn this year


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I don't think anyone will have time to sell any assets before the capital gains increases take affect. I'm still in it for the long term, pension income.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai construction projects continue to feel effects of slowdown


With the latest real estate reports cautioning over-supply will place more pressure on the housing market, one might be forgiven for thinking the construction market is picking up.

*This is hardly the case, as a number of projects across the emirate remain on-hold. The most recent figure provided by Meed Projects is that $463bn worth of projects are on-hold in the UAE. The vast majority of these are in Dubai with approximately $323bn on-hold in the emirate according to the project tracker.*

Of these projects the most significant is Nakheel's $95bn Dubai Waterfront, which was to feature a 1.2km-high tower as its anchor project - thereby overtaking Burj Khalifa as the world's tallest building - and be home to up to 1.5 million people.

In total, Nakheel has approximately $108bn of projects on-hold including construction on the three Palm Islands (Jumeirah, Deira and Jebel Ali) and The World. The company falls under the banner of Dubai World, which caused a media storm on 25 November 2009 by announcing a debt standstill on its $25bn debt. There has since been talk of Dubai World selling some of its land bank, including the above mentioned incomplete projects to meet some of its debts.

A further scheme which was to transform the shape of the emirate, Limitless's $11bn Arabian Canal has also been put on hold. Another Dubai World subsidiary, the 80-kilometre canal was set to be the largest civil engineering project ever undertaken in Dubai. It was to begin near Al-Maktoum International Airport, pass through Dubai Waterfront and Discovery Gardens, Dubai Industrial City, Jebel Ali Business Park and Jumeirah Golf Estates.

The multi-billion dollar Meraas Development - Jumeirah Gardens - also remains on hold. With a proposed budget of $95bn, the mixed-use project would see the redevelopment of the land in the Satwa area between Sheikh Zayed Road and Al-Wasl Road and from Al-Dhiyafa street to the proposed Creek extension in the Safa Park area, along with seven offshore islands.

Prioritisation of ongoing developments

It is not just those elaborate schemes that are struggling however. Seemingly successful projects in Dubai have had to stall on rolling-out their full range of schemes.

Emaar's Downtown Burj Dubai has placed on hold a significant proportion of its supplementary projects. These include a number of smaller residential towers including the 60-storey Burj Park, two 55-storey towers called Burj Place, estimated at $250m and the Grand Boulevard scheme, which would feature 69-storey and 22-storey towers located close to Dubai Mall and DIFC.

Last month, Emaar did announce that two residential towers at 29 Burj Boulevard could open in 2012, two years after the scheduled completion date.

In addition, Dubai Sports City, the $2.5bn sports-tourism and residential complex within Dubailand has seen a number of facets stalled. In particular, its multi-purpose outdoor stadium has been put on hold during its execution stage due to the current financial crisis. The Arena Mall has also been put on hold at the prequalification stage and there is no set timetable to revive the project.

Dubai Sports City is set to be developed in two phases. Phase one will involve the construction of sports stadiums and sports-related facilities and phase two will cover the construction of a gold course and infrastructure.

In its latest lease guide to Dubai in April, Landmark Advisory stated that lease rates in most areas, in both residential and commercial markets, will fall in coming months, especially for lower quality buildings in the least developed and integrated communities. However, it added that certain residential units in key locations within high quality developments will remain stable. This applies to both specific villa developments and apartment buildings.

On the flip side, the situation isn't wholly negative. There are $114bn-worth of construction and infrastructure projects expected to be awarded in 2010, proving that the coming 12 months need not be viewed with total trepidation. 

http://www.ameinfo.com/231517.html


----------



## 234sale

jagmp said:


> This will demotivate lot of people to pay their dues to the taxman.I have already heard people talking about not disclosing their foreign investments.This will create parallel economy where people have lot of unaccountable cash money called black money in Asian countries.


http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/house-and-home/property/property-abroad-vietnam-1695292.html

Personally, Vietnam would be next for me..


----------



## noir-dresses

Notice the stronger the USD gets, value of a barrel of oil drops at the same time.


----------



## ASIFamin

Dear All, 


I am requesting you to all please call me, then v can arrange to meet. Please decide and let me know, v will go together to Al Manal, v can discuss with them. (Mr. Manjith already called me)

Best regards
ASIF


----------



## sandstone

i must remark that posting on this and other forums appears to have dropped significantly in volume lately. Used to be if I missed a few days, I had pages and pages to go through to catch up. I just skipped 2-3 weeks and only had 3 pages to rewind.


----------



## GreenKiwi

yes I noticed the same. Some favourite old subjects such as DAMAC and on hold projects/developers running away now generate zero posts.


----------



## jeetha

Bring back Wannaberich. :lol:


----------



## True Blue

sandstone said:


> i must remark that posting on this and other forums appears to have dropped significantly in volume lately. Used to be if I missed a few days, I had pages and pages to go through to catch up. I just skipped 2-3 weeks and only had 3 pages to rewind.


In a falling market it is difficult to justify buying property in Dubai as an investment. That probably accounts for the lack of interest in this particular thread, HOWEVER!

I've been pondering the latest move by the UK government regarding the increase in capital gains tax and I think it could actually spark a resurgence of interest from UK buyers. Why? Simple, quite a lot of people buy their second homes in the UK. The propblem for them now is that all property transactions are conveyed by solicitors who follow the prescribed format. This format includes filling out a SDLT form for the Tax man. Any stamp duty that is due is collected by your solicitor and paid directly to the HMRC. So when you later sell this property the process is the same, they know what you paid and what it is being sold for so they just wait for you to declare the tax due and make the payment. You are taxed on the purchase price under SDLT and on the profit gain from the sale under Capital Gains tax 40%.

All of a sudden Dubai looks like a good place to have a second/ holiday home. You don't pay SDLT on the purchase and when you sell the HMRC do not get notification of the transaction. It is basically down to you to create the figures and make a return based on what you declare. Perfect!!

Of course, you can also chose to rent out your Dubai property or not as the case may be:cheers:


----------



## AITU

^^Agreed but current exchange rate is one limiting factor in currently doing this


----------



## speculator

sandstone said:


> i must remark that posting on this and other forums appears to have dropped significantly in volume lately. Used to be if I missed a few days, I had pages and pages to go through to catch up. I just skipped 2-3 weeks and only had 3 pages to rewind.


Quality vs Quantity. I know what id rather have


----------



## Villi

True Blue said:


> I've been pondering the latest move by the UK government regarding the increase in capital gains tax and I think it could actually spark a resurgence of interest from UK buyers


£1 / 5.30 dhs hno:


----------



## Rob Timpie

Message from Memon...


----------



## Rob Timpie

*message from Memon (Shaikani brothers)*

_Greetings,

Hope you are doing fine, we understand your below mail and are totally with you.
The project is on a hold due to the NOC from the Master developer regarding the area increase on the roof top of the Tower, the report was held as there was a extra sq ft increase and the same has to be verified and justified by the consultant / contractor which is taking time. We have put the fact in front of you to understand that the delay is causing the developer more loss than the investors.

We hope you know that today Champions Tower IV is sold completely and we have no profit motive to delay the project , instead we have paid millions to register the plot the , the project and the units in Tower IV. We have also secured your payments in the Escrow bank so there is no worries regarding the project and the building.

We understand the delays are causing you to worry and doubt the progress of the tower, however we are asking you to search the truth yourself then believing us as we are not lying. We are in communication with the project department on a daily basis for the commencement of the project and as soon as we get the news the same will be announced to all.
We require your understanding for us to deliver your project. 

Kind Regards,
Sazia Sayyed
Executive – Client Relations 
Memon Investments LLC
(A member of Shaikhani Group)_


----------



## naukhez

Asif please send us an email on the address above.

Best Regards,

Naukhez



ASIFamin said:


> Dear All,
> 
> 
> I am requesting you to all please call me, then v can arrange to meet. Please decide and let me know, v will go together to Al Manal, v can discuss with them. (Mr. Manjith already called me)
> 
> Best regards
> ASIF
> + 971 50 1854754


----------



## shagdash

Prices falling fast now.
Springs 3E (3 bed) villa is now being advertised at 1.6 mil dhms. Back in Feb the lowest price quoted was 1.9 mil dhms. Seems prices in Springs have dropped anywhere between 10%-20% within the last quarter.
Anyone knows if this is the case across all villa communities like Arabian Ranches, Meadows?
Shudder to think what may be the case for apartments!


----------



## amplesou

Rob Timpie said:


> _Greetings,
> 
> Hope you are doing fine, we understand your below mail and are totally with you.
> The project is on a hold due to the NOC from the Master developer regarding the area increase on the roof top of the Tower, the report was held as there was a extra sq ft increase and the same has to be verified and justified by the consultant / contractor which is taking time. We have put the fact in front of you to understand that the delay is causing the developer more loss than the investors.
> 
> We hope you know that today Champions Tower IV is sold completely and we have no profit motive to delay the project , instead we have paid millions to register the plot the , the project and the units in Tower IV. We have also secured your payments in the Escrow bank so there is no worries regarding the project and the building.
> 
> We understand the delays are causing you to worry and doubt the progress of the tower, however we are asking you to search the truth yourself then believing us as we are not lying. We are in communication with the project department on a daily basis for the commencement of the project and as soon as we get the news the same will be announced to all.
> We require your understanding for us to deliver your project.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Sazia Sayyed
> Executive – Client Relations
> Memon Investments LLC
> (A member of Shaikhani Group)_


Seems fair enough !
Why did they increase the roof top!
Oh god i know more questions !
well done rob !:cheers:


----------



## jeetha

shagdash said:


> Prices falling fast now.
> Springs 3E (3 bed) villa is now being advertised at 1.6 mil dhms. Back in Feb the lowest price quoted was 1.9 mil dhms. Seems prices in Springs have dropped anywhere between 10%-20% within the last quarter.
> Anyone knows if this is the case across all villa communities like Arabian Ranches, Meadows?
> Shudder to think what may be the case for apartments!





shagdash said:


> And I don't understand how prices have risen either. Tracking the 3 bed villa segment in select localities (Springs/Arabian Ranches) in Dubai, I can say that the asking for a Type 2 villa in Springs was not below 2.2 mil in Jan/Feb 2010. Today these are advertised at 2 mil. That's a 10% drop.
> The asking for Type 3 Springs villas was 1.9-2.1 mil during the same period (Jan/Feb 2010). Now they're being advertised for 1.7 mil (This week's Freehold).
> Advertised prices have dropped by 10%+ in 2Q 2010. If there are any transactions happening, I wonder what is the actual price being transacted at?





shagdash said:


> A friend recently renewed a 3 bed villa albeit in Deira for 85k (was paying 115k). That's a 26% reduction!





You have lots of friends. We can always rely on you for the good news.
Cheers Shagdash.:bash:


----------



## Datok

FARIBA said:


> Thanks for the reply that's what i thought aslo and i don't understand why some others have agreed to pay after complition of each floor(meaning the memons way)


Instead of asking these people here, better ask memons for Construction based plan, and they will provide you immediately, I also bought in 2007 and had same problem, but I simply requested memon about it and I got it very same day. I request please don't listen to anybody here, as here are all anti developer groups. This is my sincere advise to you. I know many of them here.


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*Emirates sets Dh1.6b payout*

Emirates Group, which last week announced Dh4.2 billion ($1.1 billion) net profits for year ending March 31, 2010, will pay Dh1.6 billion, or more than a third of its profits, to its shareholder, the Dubai Government.

"Emirates has declared a dividend of Dh1.6 billion [$424 million] to its parent, the Investment Corporation of Dubai, a wholly owned Government of Dubai entity," the airline said in a statement.

This is the highest dividend to be paid to the Dubai Government by Emirates, the most powerful Arab brand, which was established with a mere $10 million start-up capital in 1985 with two aircraft.

Emirates' strong financial results come at a time when the global financial crisis is taking a heavy toll on the aviation and tourism industry.

Last year, airlines lost $9.4 billion, while Emirates quadrupled its profits by cutting costs amid falling yields and backed by lower jet fuel prices.

"Against a background of the worst global recession in generations, large-scale economic uncertainty and unforgiving markets, the Emirates Group faced arguably its sternest test," Shaikh Ahmad Bin Saeed Al Maktoum, President of Dubai Civil Aviation and Chairman and Chief Executive of Emirates airline and Group, said.

"We came through these difficult times with flying colours."

The results also demonstrate a strong and sustainable business model pursued by the airline — which directly and indirectly contributes roughly a fourth to Dubai's economy.

"With this, Emirates' leadership, especially Shaikh Ahmad, has proven that companies could make money even in difficult situations," a Dubai-based financial analyst said.

"Although aviation assets are not as strong as real estate and other assets, Emirates' recent success proves otherwise."

Shaikh Ahmad last year was named the chairman of a fiscal committee to restructure the government's financial burden.

"With Emirates, he has the best credentials to help Dubai navigate out of the situation," he said, requesting anonymity.

Emirates results also come at a time when one of the Dubai Government's biggest subsidiaries, Dubai World, is negotiating with creditors to restructure its debts.

http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/emirates-sets-dh1-6b-payout-1.629353


----------



## 234sale

Short selling stopped in Germany due to the fact they know this is going to be bad.










gulp...


----------



## 234sale

Dubai World in $23.5 billion debt deal with core banks

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/du...iaWw5BHBvcwMxBHNlYwN0b29scwRzbGsDcHJpbnQ-?x=0


----------



## Imre

234sale said:


> Short selling stopped in Germany due to the fact they know this is going to be bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gulp...


*Europe Crisis in Rescue for Greece Bringing Euro to New Normal *

While Wyplosz puts the euro’s long-term “fair value” at between about $1.10 and $1.20, currency movements “tend to overshoot,” he said. “My bet is that the euro still has ample room to go down before it goes up.” 

Wyplosz’s view is shared by strategists at UBS, Danske Bank A/S, Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc and Bank of America Merrill Lynch. They predict the euro will trade at between $1.15 and $1.26 by the end of the year, with BNP Paribas saying it may fall below parity with the dollar in the first quarter of 2011, according to 43 forecasts compiled by Bloomberg. 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aeCQKANRxIQ4&pos=1


----------



## amplesou

Datok said:


> Instead of asking these people here, better ask memons for Construction based plan, and they will provide you immediately, I also bought in 2007 and had same problem, but I simply requested memon about it and I got it very same day. I request please don't listen to anybody here, as here are all anti developer groups. This is my sincere advise to you. I know many of them here.


Your post seems irelevant !

Champion towers 4 Its on hold no?

So why do you dig out an older post and reply to this !

Everybody should have a RERA based payment plan as a safe guard ?

Oh no lets just pay per floor which means don't pay anything becuase its on hold !

We on here are not anti developers !


----------



## dubaiprojects

http://arabnews.com/economy/article55573.ece

http://gulfnews.com/business/economy/dubai-world-reaches-23-5b-debt-deal-with-key-banks-1.629496

I was in dubai back in Nov 2008 and I remembered asking for a project on szr towards jebel ali(cant remember the name), the price was aed 2,500 psft and I knew at that time, this has gone too far.

Anyway you guys are living in dubai, how it has impacted you in your normal daily life?


----------



## Imre

SSC as an investment ,I got by pm :

*Hello 

Hey, I'd like to make you a smart offer.

Could you please lend me some of your signature space?
I'd like you to put the following text somewhere in your signature:

....

Of course not for free, I'd pay you $20 at the end of every month. If you do it, contact me on msn: 
I have added you already.

Thanks!*


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## PJA Lover

3smiles1day said:


> got some pictures of DIP! How do I upload and share these pics?


It's easy my friend, go to "http://tinypic.com" and upload the pictures there, you will get http addresses for these photos, copy and paste the addresse's here and it will show.

So what happened to the meeting with them, any good ?


----------



## Philippa C

Imre said:


> They are issuing some tenders now so it seems few projects will restart soon.
> 
> I think this is the reason.


Thanks for your reply. Still no noc. Why would the tenders affect them issuing an noc for a resale? I've just about given up on Nakheel.


----------



## 3smiles1day

PJA Lover said:


> It's easy my friend, go to "http://tinypic.com" and upload the pictures there, you will get http addresses for these photos, copy and paste the addresse's here and it will show.
> 
> So what happened to the meeting with them, any good ?


I was not able to upload the pics and the message was "This IP address has been banned for violating our Terms of Use".

In a nutshell, they expect the project to be completed by end 2011 ( I think the original S&P agreement says July 2010). I am not any expert in property development and judging by what I saw at the site, it is not going to happen end 2011. I could only see a few excavators and no foundations or structures whatsoever could be seen. I opine there are some, if not several buyers, who defaulted and empty units are available for sale. They are coming up with other payment plans to entice investors.


----------



## neoman50

*p4*

they send you update emails and some people hang on every word they say.
they say they have problems with the roof design. is"nt the roof the last thing they build.how about building some walls first and worrie about the roof last.
i have never received an email saying they are on hold.i wish they would be honest .i would accept it if they said we have no money and not building it.but they dont. screw memon.


----------



## dxbinv

I think that's right 3smiles - there seems no way it will be finished on time. Did you actually speak to the guys there? So are they now offering better purchase plans for new investors?!


----------



## FARIBA

I think memon is making things up as they go 
they give people their link to construction plan not the one that Reara sent to them,
and about what's going on with the hold on ct4 i can't belive their excuse or at this point i don't care about their lies i'm sick and tierd of them they just killed my excitment about this project and worse than that they got my hard earned money. i hope no one will pay these people a penny anymore it's like throwing your money in a trashcan

Good luck to all of us


----------



## Imre

Philippa C said:


> Why would the tenders affect them issuing an noc for a resale?


If they put few workers on each site they can say its U/C again and they will ask the payments from the investors.Real payments always better for them , credit notes just a virtual money , nothing else.

Have a look the Claren (Emaar) site ,similar trick , few workers , U/C but slow progress.


----------



## shab

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10129958.stm


----------



## 234sale

Who was saying to buy Barclays Shares as a long term investment?

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined


----------



## jeetha

*The tenant from hell:*

Scam: 'Rose Chimuka' sublet properties to a large number of tenants and paid landlords nothing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/property...ail-havoc-south-London-rental-properties.html


----------



## PJA Lover

3smiles1day said:


> I was not able to upload the pics and the message was "This IP address has been banned for violating our Terms of Use".
> 
> In a nutshell, they expect the project to be completed by end 2011 ( I think the original S&P agreement says July 2010). I am not any expert in property development and judging by what I saw at the site, it is not going to happen end 2011. I could only see a few excavators and no foundations or structures whatsoever could be seen. I opine there are some, if not several buyers, who defaulted and empty units are available for sale. They are coming up with other payment plans to entice investors.


Obviously they have done some excavators in order to show that they have started the construction, but everybody knows this is an old trick and does not mean that there is a real work going on.

The project is not even registered with RERA yet ! check RERA website.

Our contract shows a completion date in July 2010, which is impossible that it will be handed by this date, also it shows one year tolerance, after that the contract shows clearly that a refund + interest should be paid back to the investor.

It is very obvious that this project will not be completed for at least 3-4 years (if not cancelled).

There is no way that they can find buyers now, so to agree with the current investors about a refund system seems the only way out for everyone.

Any thought's of how can we work together on this ?


----------



## Wac

I called DEC few days ago and they were positive (_as usual_) that they will resume the construction in one month.


----------



## Spurs

Iv paid 20% towards a studio and I would be very negotiable about the refund o funds. If they said to me right now they would offer me a 50% refund I would except and be done of this headache.


----------



## gerald.d

dubaiprojects said:


> http://arabnews.com/economy/article55573.ece
> 
> Anyway you guys are living in dubai, how it has impacted you in your normal daily life?


As a renter, it's great. Each year we get to upgrade to a better property in a better location.


----------



## jagmp

Stirling is falling as well.I am going on a four weeks tour of US and Canada in August.Should i buy dollars now or wait till the August?


----------



## gerald.d

^^ If anyone were genuinely able to answer that for you, you (and they) would be able to make millions.

The rate's very good at the moment compared to recent historical values. Why not just buy half now, and half later?


----------



## jagmp

^^

Thanks. Good idea.:cheers:


----------



## True Blue

Josau said:


> ^^Even so your statement is slightly exaggerated, I think the impact of all of these flats coming onto the rental and the sales market will be devastating. Of course they won't come onto the market all at once so the effect will be gradual, but if nothing is happening to bring up the population of the UAE, it will send prices into free fall. On top of that, these buildings might not meet much interest by residents, because except of being super tall, they are on top of each other and getting in and out will be a traffic nightmare, just as JBR is on a friday night. When I read that the Torch has over 700 flats I quickly calculated that there will be at least 7000 flats in this small area?!
> I see it in front of my eyes: people using the parking at Nakheel Harbour and Towers station and riding home on the metro and the feeder buses or - if it ever gets finished - the tram.


I don't see it being devastating for marina waterfront apartments within good developments. There has always been Marina Crown apartments on the rental market for a few years now and the prices there have been cheaper than marina waterfront developments. I see the tallest block area as competeing more with JLT apartments for a number of reasons. Tallest block is near the marina, has difficult access and egress and will have high density living, not really for the style conscious unless you are in a penthouse. JLT is less dense and will have a nicely landscaped surrounds eventually. Tallest block will be like city living without the city. Marina waterfront apartments generaly have water views and views of the yachts, are close to the attractions of the walk, beach, mall, hotels etc so will always be first choice and comand a premium. 

Assuming the JLT lanscaping is nearing completion by next year at the same time as tallest block units are flooding the market, my first choice would be marina waterfront living followed by JLT space with a view followed by Tallest block. If there is a price free fall it will be between Tallest block and JLT.


----------



## cayman1

rallyman said:


> there is no building permit ... the new plan is same as old one but the small change says that 5 % more is due retrospect ie they can claim it now ( if you believe that shoring is done and no piling is required !!!) in actual fact shoring is not done as they do not have permission to do it and no engineering decision has been made as to whether you can build 2 towers like this without piling !! hence no building permission


Do you pay or not?


----------



## shagdash

jeetha said:


> You have lots of friends. We can always rely on you for the good news.
> Cheers Shagdash.:bash:


Yes friends..also real estate agents keep me informed..
Don't shoot the messenger!


----------



## Josau

True Blue said:


> I don't see it being devastating for marina waterfront apartments within good developments. There has always been Marina Crown apartments on the rental market for a few years now and the prices there have been cheaper than marina waterfront developments. I see the tallest block area as competeing more with JLT apartments for a number of reasons. Tallest block is near the marina, has difficult access and egress and will have high density living, not really for the style conscious unless you are in a penthouse. JLT is less dense and will have a nicely landscaped surrounds eventually. Tallest block will be like city living without the city. Marina waterfront apartments generaly have water views and views of the yachts, are close to the attractions of the walk, beach, mall, hotels etc so will always be first choice and comand a premium.
> 
> Assuming the JLT lanscaping is nearing completion by next year at the same time as tallest block units are flooding the market, my first choice would be marina waterfront living followed by JLT space with a view followed by Tallest block. If there is a price free fall it will be between Tallest block and JLT.


^^I agree with your analysis. However, even the waterfront apartments in the Marina will be impacted by the high traffic caused by the tallest block. Already now it is obvious that the traffic issue wasn't well looked at when they developed the plans to the road and street system within the Marina.


----------



## noir-dresses

New residents keep property market going
Around 10,000 new residents arrive in Dubai each month, buoying the real estate industry.
By Staff Writer
Published Tuesday, May 25, 2010

New residents keep property market going.. (REUTERS)
Property agents and dealers in Dubai still have enough business to keep them occupied as the emirate is adding 10,000 residents to its population every month, delegates attending a lecture at the Capital Club Dubai heard yesterday.

Quoting recent figures available with the Dubai Statistics Centre, Linda Mahoney, CEO of property services company Better Homes, said the emirate's population exceeded 1.8 million in the first quarter of this year and even in these relatively strained economic times, it continues to add 10,000 people every month to its population.

"Dubai's continuing growth means that though the pace of expansion may have slowed after the financial crisis, companies involved in selling and leasing property, in particular, still have more than enough business to keep them occupied, and this does not appear set to change anytime soon," she said during her lecture at the club, which is one of the region's premier private business clubs and a member of the ENSHAA group of companies.

"Although the development of new properties has slowed, for as long as people continue to flock to Dubai, the UAE and the region, they will need places to live, shop, do business in and be entertained – and the real estate and construction areas will continue to provide such places," said Mahoney.

The lecture, which took place at The Signature in the Capital Club's premises at Dubai International Financial Centre, was moderated by Guy Guillemard, CEO of Signature Clubs International. Mahoney, a South African, discussed how she ventured into the world of Middle East real estate and built one of the UAE's largest realtors. She reflected on how the real estate sector in the UAE and the region has changed over the past two decades, particularly in Dubai, which was far from the thriving metropolis it is currently when she first set up her business.

In 1986, when Better Homes was established, the population of Dubai was a little over 370,000, with built up areas to match. By 2006 this number had grown to just under 1.5 million. The real estate sector has had to keep pace with the rapid growth of Dubai.


----------



## dubaimat

noir-dresses said:


> New residents keep property market going
> Around 10,000 new residents arrive in Dubai each month, buoying the real estate industry.
> By Staff Writer
> Published Tuesday, May 25, 2010
> 
> New residents keep property market going.. (REUTERS)
> Property agents and dealers in Dubai still have enough business to keep them occupied as the emirate is adding 10,000 residents to its population every month, delegates attending a lecture at the Capital Club Dubai heard yesterday.
> 
> Quoting recent figures available with the Dubai Statistics Centre, Linda Mahoney, CEO of property services company Better Homes, said the emirate's population exceeded 1.8 million in the first quarter of this year and even in these relatively strained economic times, it continues to add 10,000 people every month to its population.
> 
> "Dubai's continuing growth means that though the pace of expansion may have slowed after the financial crisis, companies involved in selling and leasing property, in particular, still have more than enough business to keep them occupied, and this does not appear set to change anytime soon," she said during her lecture at the club, which is one of the region's premier private business clubs and a member of the ENSHAA group of companies.
> 
> "Although the development of new properties has slowed, for as long as people continue to flock to Dubai, the UAE and the region, they will need places to live, shop, do business in and be entertained – and the real estate and construction areas will continue to provide such places," said Mahoney.
> 
> The lecture, which took place at The Signature in the Capital Club's premises at Dubai International Financial Centre, was moderated by Guy Guillemard, CEO of Signature Clubs International. Mahoney, a South African, discussed how she ventured into the world of Middle East real estate and built one of the UAE's largest realtors. She reflected on how the real estate sector in the UAE and the region has changed over the past two decades, particularly in Dubai, which was far from the thriving metropolis it is currently when she first set up her business.
> 
> In 1986, when Better Homes was established, the population of Dubai was a little over 370,000, with built up areas to match. By 2006 this number had grown to just under 1.5 million. The real estate sector has had to keep pace with the rapid growth of Dubai.


Whow! I keep hearing that rubbish for quiet some time right now. First of all I highly doubt that numbers provided by any official Dubai sources are correct.

Second, Better Homes is not unaffected buy the disastrous
situation of the Dubai property market. If I remember correct, a huge number of their staff got laid off last year and the company is not in a good shape at all.

Lastly, in the good old days a lot of housewives from all over the world "ventured into the world of Middle East real estate", when times get rough they should at least refrain from "lecturing" if it only means spreading uninformed nonsense.:cheers:


----------



## Josau

Yeah, this is an article from Emirates Business 24/7. I just made a nasty comment on their online issue. My comment won't be printed, as it would destroy the rosy picture. Gosh, what censorship can do!!!


----------



## dubaiprojects

Josau said:


> ^^Even so your statement is slightly exaggerated, I think the impact of all of these flats coming onto the rental and the sales market will be devastating. Of course they won't come onto the market all at once so the effect will be gradual, but if nothing is happening to bring up the population of the UAE, it will send prices into free fall. On top of that, these buildings might not meet much interest by residents, because except of being super tall, they are on top of each other and getting in and out will be a traffic nightmare, just as JBR is on a friday night. When I read that the Torch has over 700 flats I quickly calculated that there will be at least 7000 flats in this small area?!
> I see it in front of my eyes: people using the parking at Nakheel Harbour and Towers station and riding home on the metro and the feeder buses or - if it ever gets finished - the tram.


From where those people will come to occupy so called 7000 new flats? From Pluto? ;-)
I am really interested to know if some one has real statistics about the occupancy rate for all marina flats or atleast JBR?


----------



## noir-dresses

Well most of those apartments are already bought, so they will be holiday home's. What's important is the percentage that will be rented out.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Josau said:


> getting in and out will be a traffic nightmare, just as JBR is on a friday night.
> 
> I see it in front of my eyes: people using the parking at Nakheel Harbour and Towers station and riding home on the metro and the feeder buses or - if it ever gets finished - the tram.


New York has had this problem for a long time, prices are very high for such high rise locations.


----------



## noir-dresses

Very good point Steve.


----------



## diku

Developers need clearance from Rera to collect service charges
New laws will prevent developers from collecting any service charges without clearance from watchdog.
By Parag Deulgaonkar 
Published Wednesday, May 26, 2010 

Developers need clearance from Rera to collect service charges. (EB FILE)

The new guidelines for implementation of the Strata Law for jointly owned properties, which came into force yesterday, will prevent developers from collecting any service charges unless they get clearance from the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), its CEO told Emirates Business. The guidelines also make it mandatory for developers who are constructing projects to submit their drawings to the Land Department's survey section for approval so that rights to communal areas are defined, said Marwan bin Ghalita.

Rera also has the right to temporarily administer a development in case of breach of rules by owners.

"The guidance will give investors more confidence. This will make the market more mature and transparent," added Ghalita.

Sultan bin Butti bin Mejren, Director-General of the Land Department, said: "The implications of releasing these guidelines are profound and far reaching for Dubai's property sector in general."

http://www.business24-7.ae/companie...o-collect-service-charges-2010-05-26-1.248508


----------



## gerald.d

dubaimat said:


> Second, Better Homes is not unaffected buy the disastrous situation of the Dubai property market. If I remember correct, a huge number of their staff got laid off last year and the company is not in a good shape at all.


This, basically.

I remember on coming out 2 1/2 years ago that there seemed to be hundreds and hundreds of those Better Homes Minis driving all over the place.

Now? Can't remember the last time I saw any.

2 1/2 years ago, when visiting a property supposedly up for rent, it wasn't uncommon to find someone had moved into it earlier that day, or the day before.

Now? Find somewhere you like, then wait 3-6 months for the price to drop, then move in.


----------



## Flintbug

diku said:


> Developers need clearance from Rera to collect service charges
> New laws will prevent developers from collecting any service charges without clearance from watchdog.
> By Parag Deulgaonkar
> Published Wednesday, May 26, 2010
> 
> Developers need clearance from Rera to collect service charges. (EB FILE)
> 
> The new guidelines for implementation of the Strata Law for jointly owned properties, which came into force yesterday, will prevent developers from collecting any service charges unless they get clearance from the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), its CEO told Emirates Business. The guidelines also make it mandatory for developers who are constructing projects to submit their drawings to the Land Department's survey section for approval so that rights to communal areas are defined, said Marwan bin Ghalita.
> 
> Rera also has the right to temporarily administer a development in case of breach of rules by owners.
> 
> "The guidance will give investors more confidence. This will make the market more mature and transparent," added Ghalita.
> 
> Sultan bin Butti bin Mejren, Director-General of the Land Department, said: "The implications of releasing these guidelines are profound and far reaching for Dubai's property sector in general."
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/companie...o-collect-service-charges-2010-05-26-1.248508


But does this now allow real Owners Associations to be formed? Without these there is no real change since RERA were already controlling the service charges.


----------



## Josau

Dubai_Steve said:


> New York has had this problem for a long time, prices are very high for such high rise locations.


^^Yes, but New York has a much better mass transport system. And this is what I was coming to: Those, who criticize the Metro, the Tram etc. should look at how high density cities work. Dubai needs a mass transport system and needs to extend it even more. I applaud the wise vision of the decision makers, who started to build a mass transport system before it was absolutely necessary. This is a big plus for Dubai, but they have to keep on developing it.
As of the comment, that the flats in the tallest block were holiday homes? I doubt that. Well maybe a small fracture is, but it is highly unlikely that a flat on let's say the 40th floor with a view onto a street, that's lined with super tall buildings is a holiday home. You'd live in a dark canyon, with a congested street at your feet. Anyway, not my idea of a holiday home.


----------



## x117a

*Court and Refund Options*

Hello All,

I purchased a unit in what is now Zone6 back in 2005, and as the rest of you have no firm completion date and now no firm construction start date. I am now looking at possible legal action against the developer and would like to know if anyone has gone down that route and if so what law firm or lawyer was used. Any information anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any replies.


----------



## Ramin777

gerald.d said:


> Now? Find somewhere you like, then wait 3-6 months for the price to drop, then move in.


Sorry Gerald that is NOT true.
Speaking from my own expereince...., I have 3 studios in Lake Terrace, a couple of months back, the same day that existing tennant left, I had one moving in (FYI, rent wasn't cheap either). Same day.
Demand has actually picked up compared to 18 months ago. I can't comment on bigger units or villas but, things are looking pretty good for studios. Renting at round 50-55K AED, which is still generating a handsome yield.


----------



## GreenKiwi

2 problems we all know about in Dubai. Too much supply and developers trying to rip us off on service fees to provide some income. Now hard facts. Oversupply -Tower D - Marina Residences was handed over a few months ago and only 12/186 apartments occupied as of today. Service fees - got a SMS from Emaar (supposedly a better developer) so went today to check what the new service and chilled water fees are for a 2 bed apartment (just over 1,400 sq ft in Tajer Old Town Island) - just over AED 49,000 (incl air con) a 29.78%, lets call it 30% increase over last year and Tajer doesnt even have an entrance lobby to staff. As they say........no comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!hno:


----------



## MannyJoe

diku said:


> Try with DEC with range of 420-440k many ads are coming now.
> Even if you go little higher it MD
> 
> Chk dubizzle or other sites for the rates.


I'm a little dubious about this tower.The cheapest studios seem to be here.
Is it a good tower?

Thanks to everyone else for the replies.


----------



## MannyJoe

*M.O.U*

Am also selling a property and would like to know about the M.O.U.
I take it once the buyer has his bank finance he signs one of these at which point he has to go ahead with the purchase or lose a deposit?If so how much is the deposit and does the seller get it?Also does the seller have to sign it and also leave a deposit which he loses should he pull out?Thanks


----------



## diku

MannyJoe said:


> *M.O.U*
> 
> Am also selling a property and would like to know about the M.O.U.
> I take it once the buyer has his bank finance he signs one of these at which point he has to go ahead with the purchase or lose a deposit?If so how much is the deposit and does the seller get it?Also does the seller have to sign it and also leave a deposit which he loses should he pull out?Thanks


As per my knowledge, both parties have to sign it along with lawyer/broker.Once signed both buyer and seller are equally responsible. If buyer moves out he loose deposit and if seller moves out he has to pay same deposited amount to buyer. 
This deposite will be held with lawyer/broker depending on your deal and you as a seller get it when you sign in RERA for title deed.


----------



## glover

buyer usually pays 10% deposit of the purchase price. seller none, but there should be a 10% penalty clause in the contract should the seller pulls out.

no need for a lawyer or an agent. the contract can be signed by the buyer and seller only with 2 witnesses. deposit can be paid directly to seller.

all of this is up to negotiations between buyer and seller if it is a direct sale (no agent is involved).



MannyJoe said:


> *M.O.U*
> 
> Am also selling a property and would like to know about the M.O.U.
> I take it once the buyer has his bank finance he signs one of these at which point he has to go ahead with the purchase or lose a deposit?If so how much is the deposit and does the seller get it?Also does the seller have to sign it and also leave a deposit which he loses should he pull out?Thanks


----------



## True Blue

Morrismarina said:


> There are some advantages buying in high level apartments in a Marina supertall tower. Namely the stunning views from height over the Palm PJ, Marina and City. You simply don't get these incredible views from a low rise development. What's best ?? Well that's a matter of taste.
> 
> I know one forumer who bought in the Marina right next to a busy road bridge and who's other apartment in a similar development nearby has only an incredibly restricted view of a wall surrounding a very small swimming pool. But as I say, it's all a matter of personal taste.


You state that there are advantages, plural, of high rise living and then go on to provide 1. There will be some apartments in supertalls with good views but in the tallest block the majority will be facing other buildings as close as 20 meters apart. There are far too many negatives in high rise living to make it attractive in my opinion. The market will tell us who is right.

I also know the forumer you are referring to, he tells me his apartments have been rented since day 1 with excellent returns. Just a few weeks ago he saw an old picture taken from his balcony used on Dubizzle to advertise another 1 bed in the same building. Seems to suggest that the pool view can't be that bad if it is now part of a library used by agents.. Proves the point that if you are buying to rent then try and leave personal tastes out of the equation.

PS, I just checked and it is still listed:lol

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...-bedroom-apartment-the-jewels-dubai-marina-2/


----------



## jagmp

Tenants ...these days all belong to the same spices. My tenant all through the discussion of renewal of contract seemed very happy to stay.I agreed to make six months contract for his convenience.

At the last moment he needed time to pay which i didn't agree.Now under the excuse of some minor repair job he says he will not sign the contract until the job is done.Of course if he mentioned earlier it could have been fixed.He is trying to blackmail at the last moment.

The contract finishes on 31st of May.Can he stay without paying or we can force him to vacate by due date if he doesn't pay by 1st of June. 

I am not desperate for the tenant.So i can't tolerate someone try to hold me at ransom.

Any advice?


----------



## 234sale

^^ He can leave,, You can try and keep his deposit.

The only case which is more difficult is when PDC remain, as the intent to stay is clear.

Welcome to the rental commitee if you test the contract.

If it is truely as minor job,, do it under contract that if this job is done then he has to renew.

Trust me,, better the tenant you know, than not one at all.


----------



## jagmp

Thanks 234sale.

Well after my strong email asking him to leave if he doesn't pay he immediately agreed to sign the contract and pay by due date.If he pays in time is yet to be seen.

The defects are in his words

a. Wall behind the kitchen was moisture damaged and the paint is cracked and damaged
b. Water tightness within the sink area is not proper leading to water seepage into the sink cupboard
c. Sink Tap is loose and this may be the reason for water leakage.
d. there is a slight movement (not much) between the 2 marbel top between the kitchen table

Any idea who should i contact to do the job ?


----------



## jagmp

234sale what does this mean.

The only case which is more difficult is when PDC remain, as the intent to stay is clear.


----------



## rallyman

no need to pay untill they meet the requirements mentioned in arabic, which include land ownership documents that they havent got !


----------



## MannyJoe

Cheers Diku and Glover


----------



## diku

MannyJoe said:


> Cheers Diku and Glover


Welcome buddy
I was in same boat before few days.


----------



## True Blue

jagmp said:


> Thanks 234sale.
> 
> Well after my strong email asking him to leave if he doesn't pay he immediately agreed to sign the contract and pay by due date.If he pays in time is yet to be seen.
> 
> The defects are in his words
> 
> a. Wall behind the kitchen was moisture damaged and the paint is cracked and damaged
> b. Water tightness within the sink area is not proper leading to water seepage into the sink cupboard
> c. Sink Tap is loose and this may be the reason for water leakage.
> d. there is a slight movement (not much) between the 2 marbel top between the kitchen table
> 
> Any idea who should i contact to do the job ?


I normaly just use the bulding maintenance contractor for my buildings which is Emcor. A bit more expensive than local handyman however any problems with the work and they come back promptly and sort it instead of avoiding you after you have paid. Does MDs not have a maintenance company signed up?


----------



## jagmp

^^

I am not sure True Blue.Thanks.I need to find out from MD people.

At the same time it is very helpful to know a local handyman who can sort out minor jobs.Once this tenant leaves may be i need to redecorate the entire flat.Is there a local tradesman directory like yellow pages here.That can prove handy.


----------



## shagdash

^^
MAB Contractors are DIY guys who will fix anything. They are reasonable, professional and great.
PM me if you want contact details.


----------



## agod

I also have a guy that is good, and turns up on time and can sort any problem.

Also I am always of the view that leaks should be sorted right away, nothing worse than getting that call from the owner below, that his ceiling has just fallen in.

Is it me, or am I a strange landord, because, I would have said "thank you for telling I will get it sorted straight away" it is your property after all, and any problems are yours, and it's up to you to keep it up to standard.

Pm me.

Alan


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*Report blames world trade trends for Dubai’s downturn*

Frank Kane
Last Updated: May 29. 2010 9:28PM

Dubai’s financial slowdown should be treated as a “special case” caused by the downturn in world trade and had nothing to do with the intrinsic productive capacity of the emirate’s economy, the UAE economic report says.

Sultan al Mansouri, the Minister of Economy, said the UAE Government had no plans for further involvement in either Dubai World or any capital reorganisation at Dubai Holding after intervening through the allocation of funding to the Dubai Financial Support Fund and other measures to improve banking liquidity.

“Dubai Holding’s recent decision [to postpone repayment on some of its debt] is a normal decision and there should be no overreaction by the media as there was with Dubai World,” Mr al Mansouri said. “There is no involvement from the UAE economics ministry in Dubai Holding.”

According to the economic report: “The economic development plan of Dubai that began in 2005 and was outlined in the Dubai Strategic Plan 2015 was clearly aware of the fact that since much of the debt had relatively short maturities (3-5 years), and cash flows from property development would fully accrue with a longer time-horizon (because it takes considerable time to complete building structures), the risk from the maturity mismatch was always present.”

The global financial crisis accelerated the mismatch by depressing property values and drying up liquidity. “Severe capital outflows were caused by reductions in foreign direct investments,” the report says.

It also explains that the slowdown in Dubai property values was caused by what economists call “Dutch disease” – an imbalance caused by a sudden inflationary trend in a country’s economy.

After 2000, the emirate’s creation of a tax-free and business-friendly environment attracted large capital inflows that caused an inflationary spiral in wages, credit and property prices that was halted by the global financial crisis of 2008.

The case of Dubai is ‘special’ also because very large investments have been made in its soft infrastructure, in both industry and government, which will have highly positive effects on the long-run development of the emirate,” the report says.

“When economic commentators speak of productivity, they normally imply labour productivity. But labour productivity also depends on the amount of capital that is ‘mixed’ with labour, on his or her level of education, on his or her health, and on many other factors which influence the overall productivity of an economy – what is known as total factor productivity.

“But perhaps the biggest improvement in the overall productivity of the UAE in general, and specifically in Dubai, is the high efficiency of Dubai government agencies and departments which adopt first-best policies and international best practices …,” the report says.

When these factors are recognised, it will position Dubai as one of the “most competitive cities in the long run”, the report concludes.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100529/BUSINESS/705299915/1005/business


----------



## jagmp

Thanks all who have offered help and advice.This why i love this forum.Although i can't contribute much to the forum because of my limited knowledge of Dubai in general formers have always offered helping hand. 

At the moment we have agreed that tenant will hold some money from the rent and he will sort this out.

Alan i would love to maintain my property if only i knew there was a problem.Again if i was informed in time the damage could have been stopped.This can not be used as an excuse for not paying the rent or not signing the contract.:cheers:


----------



## 234sale

jagmp said:


> 234sale what does this mean.
> 
> The only case which is more difficult is when PDC remain, as the intent to stay is clear.


Some people take post dated checks,, but I guess your contact is for one year..

The moisture problem sounds like an ac issue, chilling the wall, that causes it to condensate,,

I'm gussing its a villa,, springs?


----------



## 234sale

jagmp said:


> Thanks all who have offered help and advice.This why i love this forum.Although i can't contribute much to the forum because of my limited knowledge of Dubai in general formers have always offered helping hand.
> 
> At the moment we have agreed that tenant will hold some money from the rent and he will sort this out.
> 
> Alan i would love to maintain my property if only i knew there was a problem.Again if i was informed in time the damage could have been stopped.This can not be used as an excuse for not paying the rent or not signing the contract.:cheers:


We have a villa in the meadows that was rented,, we just add time to the contract if he has an issue.. 

Actually it is better to give all services included in rent,, this includeds a property maintance contract.

Peace of mind for you and the tenant..

You can build the cost into the rent if your clever,, as it's a selling point..


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> The market will tell us who is right.


I know which of the two views below I would prefer.










vs










Also skyscrapers tend to have better facilities, very large pools, gyms, barbecue areas etc. Even though there are more residents, they tend to have quality facilities similar to health clubs or hotels wihich in general have more members than supertall residents and are quite comfortable to use.










Another benefit of supertalls is the prestige of living in one of the World's tallest and iconic towers. For example the iconicness of the Empire State tends to drive up rental prices opposed to the small towers at the other end of town.


----------



## jagmp

234sale it is not a villa.It is only a one br flat.

How does this maintance contract work and who do you do this contract with.I am not sure would it be worth for a small flat.

However here in London i have it with an agent and housing association who pay us net rent.They maintain the property and pay the rent irrespective of it is occupied or vacant.It has worked very well for the past 12 years for one and others for past 7 to 8 years.

It would be interesting to know about it.


----------



## True Blue

Steve, a couple of points,

The Jewels pool picture is taken with a wide angle lens which makes the pool look smaller than it actually is. The pool is not much smaller than the second pool shot you show. The "high rise" view you show is taken about 15 floor level with a bit of zoom. So it is in effect a typical low rise view.

You and your friends in The Torch have always had a contrary opinion to mine so as I say let the market dictate who was right and who was wrong. Just remember that once I cash my next rent cheque in 2011, I will have taken in enough money from my 2 low rise units to cover the cost of that 1 bed unit. So in 2011 when you are just getting your keys, it will owe me nothing. From a pure investment perspective, I am happy that I called it right.


----------



## Mistermark

True Blue said:


> Steve, a couple of points,
> 
> The Jewels pool picture is taken with a wide angle lens which makes the pool look smaller than it actually is. The pool is not much smaller than the second pool shot you show. The "high rise" view you show is taken about 15 floor level with a bit of zoom. So it is in effect a typical low rise view.
> 
> You and your friends in The Torch have always had a contrary opinion to mine so as I say let the market dictate who was right and who was wrong. Just remember that once I cash my next rent cheque in 2011, I will have taken in enough money from my 2 low rise units to cover the cost of that 1 bed unit. So in 2011 when you are just getting your keys, it will owe me nothing. From a pure investment perspective, I am happy that I called it right.


With hindsight, I agree that those who bought in low-rise projects in Dubai made better decisions than those who went for supertalls, because the former were generally delivered sooner. 

Of course, this didn't have to be the case. An 80-storey building can be completed in the same time as a 40-storey one if you throw double the workforce at it. In fact, probably less than half the time. Trouble is, most developers didn't.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I also agree The Jewels was a better investment at the time as most supertall off-plan buyers have lost a lot of money in rent due to massive unexpected delays. However, the issue being debated is the rental value of completed projects, low rise vs supertalls, eg. Dorra Bay vs Infinity.


----------



## True Blue

^^Good comparison as both occupy the plots at the entrances to the marina. Dorrabay launch price was less than 70% of the price of Infinity, so Infinity 2 bed would need to rent at 45% more than the rates for Dorrabay. I expect Infinity to earn a premium over Dorrabay of only 20%, so Dorrabay as an investment property wins, not to mention the 2 extra years rent earned. 

I would say though that Infinity is a true marina development but MAG 218, Marina Pinnacle, Marina Crown et al, are too far away from the waterfront to compete with the likes of Infinity, Marina Promenade or Park Islands etc. That is where we will see the market maturing further and I expect them to compete more with JLT rentals.


----------



## dubaimarina2008

*Dubai housing fee to be mandatory from January 1*

*Dubai housing fee to be mandatory from January 1*

"All unit occupants in Dubai, whether villas/apartments in free zone or freehold areas, will be [required] to pay the housing fee. We have set a time line of January 1, 2011, by when we expect all these units to start paying the housing fee." However, freehold property owners will now not be charged 0.5 per cent of their annual sales contract value, but the fee will be charged at five per cent annually of the average Rera rental index for that particular community.

http://www.business24-7.ae/companie...-mandatory-from-january-1-2010-05-31-1.250100


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Is that the equivalent to council tax in the uk? Works out at around £100 per month for a 2 bed. I take it that the tenant rather than owner must pay as in the uk?


----------



## 234sale

Its in the DEWA bill ^^

This press release is because JLT is now included.


----------



## noir-dresses

So in reality JLT is not a free zone. hno:


----------



## Imre

*New Dubai property ruling for the ‘common’ good*

*Home owner associations managing service levels and controlling service fees transparently – ‘good for the market’ says expert.*










Dubai property owners now have the opportunity to play an active role in the management and operation of their towers and communities as the new regulations which provide the framework for the ‘Dubai Jointly Owned Property Law’ (Law No. 27) has been released, which will provide for the legal establishment of home owners associations.

“Now that the much anticipated and long awaited regulations are effective, the dawn of a new era in the Dubai property market is upon us. This legislation will bring much need transparency, guidelines and RERA directive to the emerging industry of association management. It is good for the market,” said Nicole Betts, Head of Association Management, at Dubai-based Asteco Property Management.

Until now the way in which jointly owned freehold property has been operated has not been regulated, it has been left up to the developer to provide property management services or outsource them to facility management companies and service charges have been calculated and collected by developers. 

“These methods of operation have been widely detrimental resulting in a poor level or lack of services such as cleaning, security, pest control and maintenance of the buildings facilities and an inaccurate representation of service charges to the market due a multitude of factors,” said Betts.

As with any new regulation, there is a period of adjustment and property owners, developers and service providers will no doubt face challenging times ahead for as full understanding of the regulations and their implementation becomes understood.

Full text here:

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/05/new-dubai-property-ruling-for-common.html


----------



## AppleMac

Dubai_Steve said:


> Is that the equivalent to council tax in the uk? Works out at around £100 per month for a 2 bed. I take it that the tenant rather than owner must pay as in the uk?


In most cases yes - it could be a hit for the owners at the low end of the market though as RERA's rent index is somewhat over optimistic. As the housing fee will rise then tenants will simply look for lower rents and in todays market they will probably get them.


----------



## True Blue

*Community housing fees.*

I think it is probably a fairer system they are introducing even though I will lose out. Under the present system I would only pay 0.5% of 927k for my marina view 2 bed whereas the tenant currently pays 5% of 120k for the exact same property. Where I have a problem is knowing that this extra money is going to be used to generate and maintain a beautiful community and not be diverted to paying off Emaar's bank arrears.

I also want to see visas linked to real market values and not the arbitrary AED1M set in the outline ruling. Although my apartment cost me just less than AED1M it has a market value above 1.25M even in this depressed property market, so let's get it all sorted out with a base date and valuation set by a competent authourity.


----------



## 234sale

Rera's rental index, is what the mandatory fee will be based on.

Now I see that even home owners have to pay 5% of what Rera determines..

Basically it a 5% tax that who ever has the DEWA contract has to pay..

So larger units with less rooms are better,, I'm going to build a 6,000 sqft studio for myself..

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/582655-rera-rental-index-march-2010

Downtown Burj Khalifa 
Studio 55-65 
1Bed 70-110 
2Bed 115-155
3Bed 160-200
4Bed 200-240


----------



## noir-dresses

Isn't there highest legal asking price for rent a lot lower than that on RERA's web page ?

It doesn't make sense to me. Where do they get these bone heads from who make these rules. 



234sale said:


> Rera's rental index, is what the mandatory fee will be based on.
> 
> Now I see that even home owners have to pay 5% of what Rera determines..
> 
> Basically it a 5% tax that who ever has the DEWA contract has to pay..
> 
> So larger units with less rooms are better,, I'm going to build a 6,000 sqft studio for myself..
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/582655-rera-rental-index-march-2010
> 
> Downtown Burj Khalifa
> Studio 55-65
> 1Bed 70-110
> 2Bed 115-155
> 3Bed 160-200
> 4Bed 200-240


----------



## Imre

Good luck 

*MashreqMillionaire AED 10 Million Draw - 3rd June 2010*


----------



## bizzybonita

dubaimarina2008 said:


> *Dubai housing fee to be mandatory from January 1*
> 
> "All unit occupants in Dubai, whether villas/apartments in free zone or freehold areas, will be [required] to pay the housing fee. We have set a time line of January 1, 2011, by when we expect all these units to start paying the housing fee." However, freehold property owners will now not be charged 0.5 per cent of their annual sales contract value, but the fee will be charged at five per cent annually of the average Rera rental index for that particular community.
> 
> http://www.business24-7.ae/companie...-mandatory-from-january-1-2010-05-31-1.250100


housing fees yearly or once ?


----------



## Imre

bizzybonita said:


> housing fees yearly or once ?


monthly


----------



## bizzybonita

:lol: give me a break ! so peoples with high avarge rent community will be down with this one ... 

housing fees what a name ! it should be from beginning as standard fees we already knew it but what is the time right now!

sound like they want from us to paid for Nakheel (directly route much better :lol 

to me i will paid but build 1st Nakheel Harbour Tower


----------



## Richard Head

iownyou said:


> i finaly sold my unit in jlt last week
> very disapointed in dubais sitem
> i ralized after been thee for 2 weeks and seen dubai again in a different prospective then 2005 that dubai is just a dream dubai is foolish peoples dream and is now becoming a reality and people are realizing that dubai is nothing more then alot of empty buildings and unfinished construction everywhere
> the roads are all congested as if it was new york city but the difference is that new york city has 9 million residents and is less then half the size of dubai all the dust serounding the roads with unfinished work because the lack of money all the buildings in business bay and the rest of sheick zayed rd with stoped contrusction and those buildings will never be built not in my life time the people of dubai are better to go back to their way of been beduins and not try to copy europe and american dubai is not a country but only city with empty buildings dubai needs people it needs businesses jlt alone would need about 1 millon people to fill out the offices and why would people move to dubai if the world comes out of recession why would anyone start a business there if there is no clients dubai will take at least 10 to 15 years to fill out all the empty buildings the indian workers will never have enaough money to buy property and they are just there to work and go bck home so who will stay the europeans? not once the ecnomy improves in europe so who is left the philipinos? same as the indians will be gone so all is left is the other arabs ( iraqi-afghan-palestinian-lebanon) just because there is war and problems in their home countries i think dubai population will continue to go down in the next 2 years after the economy improves in the rest of the world good luck to all of you


Christ. I nearly fainted trying to read that. And what about your 45 floors? Sold those too? Oh hang on, now I get it, that was bullshit wasn't it? Not owning anyone so much now are ya mate. :lol:


----------



## mackie1964

As far as I am concerned, things are improving


----------



## True Blue

My brother who lives near Miami told me recently that there were so many houses for sale in his neighbourhood that they placed a ban on erecting "for sale" signs. The streets looked hideous with all the realtors signs everywhere. The system they are enforcing is similar to Dubai in that for sale signs are not the norm, property listings and internet marketing is the norm. Looks like Dubai is leading the way forward in mass selling od properties


----------



## jeetha

Population Clock

1,815,299 (10/05/10)
1,815,658 (11/05/10)
1,817,849 (17/05/10)
1,820,450 (25/05/10)
1,822,989 (01/06/10)


----------



## dubaiprojects

iownyou said:


> i finaly sold my unit in jlt last week
> very disapointed in dubais sitem
> i ralized after been thee for 2 weeks and seen dubai again in a different prospective then 2005 that dubai is just a dream dubai is foolish peoples dream and is now becoming a reality and people are realizing that dubai is nothing more then alot of empty buildings and unfinished construction everywhere
> the roads are all congested as if it was new york city but the difference is that new york city has 9 million residents and is less then half the size of dubai all the dust serounding the roads with unfinished work because the lack of money all the buildings in business bay and the rest of sheick zayed rd with stoped contrusction and those buildings will never be built not in my life time the people of dubai are better to go back to their way of been beduins and not try to copy europe and american dubai is not a country but only city with empty buildings dubai needs people it needs businesses jlt alone would need about 1 millon people to fill out the offices and why would people move to dubai if the world comes out of recession why would anyone start a business there if there is no clients dubai will take at least 10 to 15 years to fill out all the empty buildings the indian workers will never have enaough money to buy property and they are just there to work and go bck home so who will stay the europeans? not once the ecnomy improves in europe so who is left the philipinos? same as the indians will be gone so all is left is the other arabs ( iraqi-afghan-palestinian-lebanon) just because there is war and problems in their home countries i think dubai population will continue to go down in the next 2 years after the economy improves in the rest of the world good luck to all of you


I feel like camera shooting a long continuous scene, I read half of what you wrote and it made me so dull.
Since you sold your apartment, everything now is a disappointment. I am just curious what happened to your huge investment in dubai, you were so keen always on replying and active on giving suggestions. Come one tell us the truth, did you put all your hard earned money to buy the flat you sold sold below op?:goodbye:
cheers


----------



## speculator

Great to read so many positive posts. :runaway:


----------



## ollitrade

*things are improving*

since months i am reading here this forum and its quite interesting.
two, three years ago everybody was talking about dubai as dreamcity, the city of future.....buying property seemed to be a no-brainer...everybody was making money. 
i remember very well when a property guy came to my office and i told her that i was interested in buying an apartment in marina. not for speculation, for personal use. she said "thats not clever, buy a studio in jumeirah village, there you can make 100% in a few weeks"
i heard that and since then i was sure that dubais real estate market was a bubble waiting to burst.

nowadays the previous properties"experts", who were forced to offload their properties at distressed prcies (only three years ago they told me i must buy) tell me that the market will fall another 10, 20, 30, 50%. 

as a professionell stocktrader, who trades his own money since years, this reminds to the situation in the stockmarket in march 09. everybody was full of fear, everybody was talking that the world will come to an end. guess what happen: yes, we had one of the biggest runs in the stockmarket in history. i dont say that real estate market in dubai will start to recover quickly. this might take another year or so till we will see improvement. but i think too if you can afford not to sell now then do not sell. now its to late! and if you are interested to buy then do your homework. do not listen what frustrated, distressed property flippers advice you. check the website of the dubai land department and you will find out real transactions with real prices! try to make an own opinion, thats very important!
in march 08 i *bought* stocks. 2 months ago i *bought* a villa in the jumeirah islands.


----------



## glover

forecasts of further declines in realty prices has nothing to do with doom and gloom. it is simply a matter of healthy market forces dictating property prices, mainly supply and demand. there is so much supply on the market and more to come, with very few buyers. what will make things worse is that developers and banks have started repossessing properties of defaulters. this will add more pressure on property prices because they will soon enter the market at depressed prices. with the economy in dubai expected to contract .5% this year and the 20k properties expected to come on the market per year in the next 3 years, it makes common sense to assume that the market has not reached bottom yet and has further room to go down.

obviously, properties with the best location and view will fare the best in this market. if you are a long term holder, no need to worry here. but in the short to medium term, i would expect further declines in property prices.


----------



## MannyJoe

When the market bottoms out Dubai will become an investors paradise in my humble opinion.Completed units being sold for well below what you would have had to pay for off-plan at one stage.In 7/8 years when Dubai is really up and running property could well be worth alot more than it will do when prices bottom out and those clever enough to have snapped up these bargains will reap the rewards.
I can see a scenario where prices bottom out and people panic buy because they sense this and fear prices will rise before they buy.If banks are lending again at that time then this will make a great difference.This could create an upward spiral causing a mini boom before prices settle down.


----------



## iownyou

when i bought in dubai in 2005 it was a different story and unfortunatly i was fooled like many others by the desert dream doesent matter if i own the whole dubai or just a brick is seen dubai after 5 years that made me realize what dubai is and that is nothing but a mans dream city is a vision of a man who did well for his people sold the whole world a dream a sand dream so people like me and you came and invested our hard earned money and built him and his people a nice city at the end of the day you wont go and take your property and bring it back to your home country but he is the one who enjoys it his city now looks much better then 10 years ago and he did well for him self.
i just sold one of my properties in dubai and i am very disapointed in what i saw i will continue selling the rest of my properties if possible as time goes by because there are always fools out there who are willing to buy something for the right price. dubais problems relies in its foundamentals and nothing else. people dont feel as if they belong there people dont feel as if they wish to start a life there but rather make some money and go back home so is just like a big hotel the figures you post here showing population numbers are meaningless because most of the population in dubai are indians, pakistanis and philipinos and those people will never buy property in dubai unless pices will go down onother 50% so therefore dubai population stands at about 700,000 now after taking out the indians, pakistanis, philipinos and with all the properties availeble 700,000 people will never make dubai the city it dreams to be everyone hs different opinions obviestly and only time can tell what lies in dubais future but i did learn a great lesson from this experience and that is to only invest in your backyard and not across the world


----------



## Monument

ollitrade said:


> since months i am reading here this forum and its quite interesting.
> two, three years ago everybody was talking about dubai as dreamcity, the city of future.....buying property seemed to be a no-brainer...everybody was making money.
> i remember very well when a property guy came to my office and i told her that i was interested in buying an apartment in marina. not for speculation, for personal use. she said "thats not clever, buy a studio in jumeirah village, there you can make 100% in a few weeks"
> i heard that and since then i was sure that dubais real estate market was a bubble waiting to burst.
> 
> nowadays the previous properties"experts", who were forced to offload their properties at distressed prcies (only three years ago they told me i must buy) tell me that the market will fall another 10, 20, 30, 50%.
> 
> as a professionell stocktrader, who trades his own money since years, this reminds to the situation in the stockmarket in march 09. everybody was full of fear, everybody was talking that the world will come to an end. guess what happen: yes, we had one of the biggest runs in the stockmarket in history. i dont say that real estate market in dubai will start to recover quickly. this might take another year or so till we will see improvement. but i think too if you can afford not to sell now then do not sell. now its to late! and if you are interested to buy then do your homework. do not listen what frustrated, distressed property flippers advice you. check the website of the dubai land department and you will find out real transactions with real prices! try to make an own opinion, thats very important!
> in march 08 i *bought* stocks. 2 months ago i *bought* a villa in the jumeirah islands.


Sensible guy - your buying strategy is absolutely right. Buy when there is blood on the streets as one old fellow once said. It could get worse but not much - and the upside will be sudden and strong.


----------



## diku

Some famous quote for investments...

When mass become greedy better you afraid. And whan mass afraid... You better be greedy..... 

Sure Do your homework well.


----------



## DXBQuantum

Thats not it.... I don't know what that is...

“Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful”


----------



## 234sale

MannyJoe said:


> When the market bottoms out Dubai will become an investors paradise in my humble opinion.Completed units being sold for well below what you would have had to pay for off-plan at one stage.In 7/8 years when Dubai is really up and running property could well be worth alot more than it will do when prices bottom out and those clever enough to have snapped up these bargains will reap the rewards.
> I can see a scenario where prices bottom out and people panic buy because they sense this and fear prices will rise before they buy.If banks are lending again at that time then this will make a great difference.This could create an upward spiral causing a mini boom before prices settle down.


Never going to happen...

The reason why we witnessed such a boom was because 

1. Transfer fees off plan didn't exist or where low 1%
2. No regulation of agents or developers
3. Gold Rush effect, hundreds of thousand swarmed in
4. Existing property was easy to mortgage with very litle proof of income.
5. Supply was short as nothing was finished
6. Hot money
7. 10% Down payments were sold at 10% premiums ( Now min 30% before you can transfer)
8. The promise of a visa
9. 

Today the hangover has begun,, many will never drink again.


----------



## diku

DXBQuantum said:


> Thats not it.... I don't know what that is...
> 
> “Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful”


Thanks for correcting... Its more appropriate...


----------



## Spurs

234sale said:


> Never going to happen...
> 
> The reason why we witnessed such a boom was because
> 
> 1. Transfer fees off plan didn't exist or where low 1%
> 2. No regulation of agents or developers
> 3. Gold Rush effect, hundreds of thousand swarmed in
> 4. Existing property was easy to mortgage with very litle proof of income.
> 5. Supply was short as nothing was finished
> 6. Hot money
> 7. 10% Down payments were sold at 10% premiums ( Now min 30% before you can transfer)
> 8. The promise of a visa
> 9.
> 
> Today the hangover has begun,, many will never drink again.


99% of people drink again. When the dubai market turns (and it will) people will be thirsty


----------



## MannyJoe

234sale said:


> Never going to happen...
> 
> The reason why we witnessed such a boom was because
> 
> 1. Transfer fees off plan didn't exist or where low 1%
> 2. No regulation of agents or developers
> 3. Gold Rush effect, hundreds of thousand swarmed in
> 4. Existing property was easy to mortgage with very litle proof of income.
> 5. Supply was short as nothing was finished
> 6. Hot money
> 7. 10% Down payments were sold at 10% premiums ( Now min 30% before you can transfer)
> 8. The promise of a visa
> 9.
> 
> Today the hangover has begun,, many will never drink again.


I'm not saying there will be a boom like before,dont think that will ever happen.I'm talking about a possible 10% increase in 6 months after the bottom is reached and the banks start lending.
If you could buy a marina unit next year for around 800psf then you can't deny thats a price too good to ignore from an investor.You wouldnt get anywhere near that price in many other cities.
As I said in 7/8 years Dubai will be up and running and very establised
and that will help prices.
At the moment Dubai offers both residential and office units at exceptional prices.This will help greatly to attract new residents and businesses
especially when the worlds economies are booming again.The Dollar will probably weaken and that will make it cheaper for certain countries to buy into Dubai.
Dubai is also becoming more and more well known.Whether its sex on the beach,tallest building,or Mossad killing the reality is its always always in the news.Good or bad it still counts.Even the new Sex in the City film I was told was shot in Abu Dhabi with constant references to Dubai.This in itself could well bring in a great number of tourists from the states alone.Women looking for a great shopping and luxury holiday experience.
Time will tell.


----------



## 234sale

Spurs said:


> 99% of people drink again. When the dubai market turns (and it will) people will be thirsty


We hope....

The question is also when,, do you reach for the bottle as the cure,,

Many would agree the hangover is still continuing,,, best to sleep it off.

Also never stay at the party to the very end,,


----------



## Beppe786

what sort of sq ft price would be for a marina facing apartment around 700ft 21st floor?


----------



## tonydubai

That's great news to hear that they are installing Windows into CRW.....they seem to be really cracking on with the construction. Maybe Q4 this year....!!!

Another encouraging thing to see in Sports City is an apartment for rent. This is the first I've seen. This is on the Better Homes website in Golf View Residence..? 

http://www.bhomes.com/UAE/residential/lease/Dubai/Dubailand/Golf_View_Residence/285779.xhtml


----------



## HateTorch

MannyJoe said:


> --- snip --- counts.Even the new Sex in the City film I was told was shot in Abu Dhabi with constant references to Dubai.--- snip ---
> Time will tell.


I heard in the news that the physical shooting location will be Morroco. 
Only the name "Abu Dhabi" will be used.
The film may not even be shown in UAE, because of the name (of the film) ... rgds.


----------



## True Blue

Beppe786 said:


> what sort of sq ft price would be for a marina facing apartment around 700ft 21st floor?


Completed, expect to start at 1000psf and add/deduct for quality of development.

Off plan, 700-800psf maybe more if it is in the home straight. Finding the buyer will be the trick


----------



## skdubai

iownyou said:


> when i bought in dubai in 2005 it was a different story and unfortunatly i was fooled like many others by the desert dream doesent matter if i own the whole dubai or just a brick is seen dubai after 5 years that made me realize what dubai is and that is nothing but a mans dream city is a vision of a man who did well for his people sold the whole world a dream a sand dream so people like me and you came and invested our hard earned money and built him and his people a nice city at the end of the day you wont go and take your property and bring it back to your home country but he is the one who enjoys it his city now looks much better then 10 years ago and he did well for him self.
> i just sold one of my properties in dubai and i am very disapointed in what i saw i will continue selling the rest of my properties if possible as time goes by because there are always fools out there who are willing to buy something for the right price. dubais problems relies in its foundamentals and nothing else. people dont feel as if they belong there people dont feel as if they wish to start a life there but rather make some money and go back home so is just like a big hotel the figures you post here showing population numbers are meaningless because most of the population in dubai are indians, pakistanis and philipinos and those people will never buy property in dubai unless pices will go down onother 50% so therefore dubai population stands at about 700,000 now after taking out the indians, pakistanis, philipinos and with all the properties availeble 700,000 people will never make dubai the city it dreams to be everyone hs different opinions obviestly and only time can tell what lies in dubais future but i did learn a great lesson from this experience and that is to only invest in your backyard and not across the world


Dude... reading your posts give me a major migraine!!! 

Funny how people think when its going up, it just cant fall and when its going down, it just cannot go up!! People like me who have to pay rent from the pocket will buy if the price is right. The only people who got burnt are the ones who made our lives miserable back during the boom days!!!

A question though. Do banks give out mortgage loans if the company that a person is working for is not listed with them? I spoke to a few banks and they flat out refused unless my company was listed (which we cannot do because we are a very small operation). I am even willing to put up to 30% on my own!

Also where is the best place to find the apartments (i mean a website or something)


----------



## diku

Try dubizzle... prices are indicative... If u r cash buyer 5 - 15 % discount is possible


----------



## 234sale

Somebody on here I know is looking at index,, dubizzle cheapest is 1800 AED,, He can find at 1500 AED when doing investigations. I'm sure UP needs cash to finish the project so I would go dirrect to UP.

Do banks lend to non-listed companies,, yes they do,, they tend to list the company when the do the application process. Will they lend to real estate brokers,, nope..


----------



## Porcello

The strata law regulations are now available at the RERA website.
http://rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/home/laws_regulation.do?lang=0


----------



## amplesou

tonydubai said:


> That's great news to hear that they are installing Windows into CRW.....they seem to be really cracking on with the construction. Maybe Q4 this year....!!!
> 
> Another encouraging thing to see in Sports City is an apartment for rent. This is the first I've seen. This is on the Better Homes website in Golf View Residence..?
> 
> http://www.bhomes.com/UAE/residential/lease/Dubai/Dubailand/Golf_View_Residence/285779.xhtml


the first of many !
a trully great monent ,the first residentail apartment finished is this one !
fantastico 
:banana:


----------



## amplesou

will show better homes pictures on golf view residences


----------



## basheer.mohammad

amplesou said:


> the first of many !
> a trully great monent ,the first residentail apartment finished is this one !
> fantastico
> :banana:


are we sure that the DEWA connection is complete? can anyone verify that


----------



## AppleMac

234sale said:


> We hope....
> 
> The question is also when,, do you reach for the bottle as the cure,,
> 
> Many would agree the hangover is still continuing,,, best to sleep it off.
> 
> Also never stay at the party to the very end,,


All depends on why you bought in the first place. If you were simply speculating to make a quick return then I doubt we will ever see a reprise of the 2007/2008 hysteria and you should have cashed in your chips then.

However if you are looking for a place to live and expect to be here for some time then buying can still make sense.

Everybody has individual reasons for buying or not - there is no answer that fits everyone.


----------



## smussuw

The doom and gloom. LOVE it :laugh:

Where r we now?


----------



## Porcello

smussuw said:


> The doom and gloom. LOVE it :laugh:
> 
> Where r we now?


6 o'clock


----------



## 234sale

AppleMac said:


> All depends on why you bought in the first place. If you were simply speculating to make a quick return then I doubt we will ever see a reprise of the 2007/2008 hysteria and you should have cashed in your chips then.
> 
> However if you are looking for a place to live and expect to be here for some time then buying can still make sense.
> 
> Everybody has individual reasons for buying or not - there is no answer that fits everyone.


We are all the same and all different at the same time :banana:


----------



## amplesou

basheer.mohammad said:


> are we sure that the DEWA connection is complete? can anyone verify that


some one contact betterhomes to find out !
too busy at work this week!


----------



## glover

*Dubai property prices seen to drop another 20% - Credit Suisse*

_a consensus among analysts and business leaders is emerging here that we will see another leg down in realty prices, though smaller than the drop in late 2008, in the next 12 months due to the supply-demand dynamics._
--------------------------------------------------------------
by Bloomberg and Neeraj Gangal
Thursday, 03 June 2010

Dubai house prices, which halved since mid-2008, may drop another 15 percent to 20 percent this year on an increase in supply as more real estate projects are completed, Credit Suisse Group said, according to a report by newswire Bloomberg.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/589679-dubai-property-prices-to-drop-another-20---credit-suisse-


----------



## diku

Can anyone help me to get tenancey contract form?


----------



## dubaiprojects

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/new-rule-empowers-home-owners-in-dubai-1.632866

Does this mean that Maintenance charges will be reduced while maintaining the quality of services? if not rather let developers maintain the property...


----------



## MannyJoe

*Info please*

The guy proposing to buy a unit from me and who had pre-approval from his bank has now been told the developer is not on their approved list so therefore they won't give him a mortgage.I can understand being turned down for a property that isnt completed as there is no gurantee of completion but why would they turn down a client for a unit thats actually completed?whats the risk?doesnt make sense to me.
Theres only one bank that is giving mortgages out on this unit so can I take it if one bank is prepared to lend to him then this other bank will or do they work on different criteria?
Also I have the email of someone at his bank dealing with this so am I wasting my time emailing her and asking what is the problem?
Thanks


----------



## Morrismarina

MannyJoe said:


> *Info please*
> 
> The guy proposing to buy a unit from me and who had pre-approval from his bank has now been told the developer is not on their approved list so therefore they won't give him a mortgage.I can understand being turned down for a property that isnt completed as there is no gurantee of completion but why would they turn down a client for a unit thats actually completed?whats the risk?doesnt make sense to me.
> Theres only one bank that is giving mortgages out on this unit so can I take it if one bank is prepared to lend to him then this other bank will or do they work on different criteria?
> Also I have the email of someone at his bank dealing with this so am I wasting my time emailing her and asking what is the problem?
> Thanks


So the developer must have been on the bank's "list" when they gave pre-approval so might be worth asking the bank why the development has now been removed. Very odd given this is a completed property. But after all this is Dubai. :lol:


----------



## MannyJoe

Morrismarina said:


> So the developer must have been on the bank's "list" when they gave pre-approval so might be worth asking the bank why the development has now been removed. Very odd given this is a completed property. But after all this is Dubai. :lol:


I assumed you didnt need a particular unit in mind to get pre-approval.I figured the bank says yes will lend u X amount then you find a unit and go back to them?if thats not the case then he couldnt have got pre-approval.
Like you say strange to get turned down on a completed unit.


----------



## noir-dresses

It just comes to show that even UAE banks don't believe too much in there country's real estate market any more. 

Since when is real estate considered a junk investment ???????

It's not like you can just take your apartment, or villa back to your home country with you, and screw the bank. It's always going to physically stay in Dubai, but still the bank is scared shitless. 

It's nice to be in Canada where bank's have done well threw the world economic crisis, actually buying foreign banks out, easy credit, value of real estate is up, life is great.


----------



## True Blue

Morrismarina said:


> So the developer must have been on the bank's "list" when they gave pre-approval so might be worth asking the bank why the development has now been removed. Very odd given this is a completed property. But after all this is Dubai. :lol:


I can't believe you didn't know that pre approval is based on the person and not the property. Gaining pre approval lets you know how much they are prepared to lend you so all you need to do is find the property with in the budget. And you are the guy at the bank who deals with mortgages, no wonder our banks are in such a messhno: Only kidding Morris, I know it's not your fault, unless your real name is Fred:laugh:

A bank may remove approval for lending on a particular building if there is something unconventional relating to the development. A few possibilities are that a surveyor has written a bad report about the building which frightens the bank, or possibly the commonhold of the building has been retained by the developer as done by Trident, Select and some others.


----------



## MannyJoe

True Blue said:


> I can't believe you didn't know that pre approval is based on the person and not the property. Gaining pre approval lets you know how much they are prepared to lend you so all you need to do is find the property with in the budget. And you are the guy at the bank who deals with mortgages, no wonder our banks are in such a messhno: Only kidding Morris, I know it's not your fault, unless your real name is Fred:laugh:
> 
> A bank may remove approval for lending on a particular building if there is something unconventional relating to the development. A few possibilities are that a surveyor has written a bad report about the building which frightens the bank, or possibly the commonhold of the building has been retained by the developer as done by Trident, Select and some others.


If a building is leasehold could this have an affect?Also why would one bank say no but another yes?


----------



## True Blue

I think the most accurate answer to your questions would come from the refusing bank. They might be candid enough to tell you why they are not approving the building for their loans.

There is a general lack of bank liquidity at the moment which will determine their lending policy but at some time this will return and they will be back to lending on tents built in the desert or even worse, pieces of paper promising "the most luxurious development in the region"


----------



## Jeroen45

DXBQuantum said:


> Thats not it.... I don't know what that is...
> 
> “Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful”


"If others are selling, you must be buying, when others start yelling, you must be selling"


----------



## Freestyler

True Blue said:


> I think the most accurate answer to your questions would come from the refusing bank. They might be candid enough to tell you why they are not approving the building for their loans.
> 
> There is a general lack of bank liquidity at the moment which will determine their lending policy but at some time this will return and they will be back to lending on tents built in the desert or even worse, pieces of paper promising "the most luxurious development in the region"


Liquidity is getting tighter, so that makes me believe another crash is coming. It is self-fulfilling prophecy. Banks are afraid of mortgage defaults, so they take measures like raising interest rates and tighten lending, in-turn increase the chances of mortgage defaults. Without quantitative easing, I see credit crises hitting Dubai sooner or later.


----------



## Morrismarina

Jeroen45 said:


> "If others are selling, you must be buying, when others start yelling, you must be selling"


Be careful being a contrarian doesn't always work.


----------



## Morrismarina

Freestyler said:


> Liquidity is getting tighter, so that makes me believe another crash is coming. It is self-fulfilling prophecy. Banks are afraid of mortgage defaults, so they take measures like raising interest rates and tighten lending, in-turn increase the chances of mortgage defaults. Without quantitative easing, I see credit crises hitting Dubai sooner or later.


I agree entirely, add in the over supply that'll be comming on stream in Dubai, world sovereign debt defaults, breaking up of the Euro and it'll take a very brave man to invest in the UAE now. Cash is king right now.


----------



## noir-dresses

Look at that USD go, it's valued at 1.20 against the Euro, hopefully going to break the 1.19 barrier by end of day.

Let the good times role. :banana:


----------



## carpetking

noir-dresses said:


> Look at that USD go, it's valued at 1.20 against the Euro, hopefully going to break the 1.19 barrier by end of day.
> 
> Let the good times role. :banana:


I'm not lucky :bash:


----------



## Morrismarina

Euro/Dollar now at 1.1967 

Still got a long way to fall as the Euro breaks up. Remember Euro at launch was at parity with Dollar. Deutschemark will be making a comeback within next 18 months.

Dow down 330 points today now.


----------



## cazfoster72

Have you all received the updates, meetings in London manchester and Ireland with the developer next week, as they are starting up again soon Insha'Allah


----------



## True Blue

Morrismarina said:


> I agree entirely, add in the over supply that'll be comming on stream in Dubai, world sovereign debt defaults, breaking up of the Euro and it'll take a very brave man to invest in the UAE now. Cash is king right now.


What about buying a bargain Dubai apartment ready now with minimum 10% net ROI, rent paid in a dollar pegged currency which is converting to weak GBP and factoring the return by another 25%:banana:

Every downturn is not a disaster, it's an opportunity!!

You'll never be a millionaire Morris


----------



## Morrismarina

Yes I wish I was as clever dick like you TB. :lol:

Problem is your ROI figure is based on current rents which will not hold up given the over supply round the corner.


----------



## 234sale

Morrismarina said:


> Yes I wish I was as clever dick like you TB. :lol:
> 
> Problem is your ROI figure is based on current rents which will not hold up given the over supply round the corner.


10,000 units each month completed,,

4,000 of which are freehold residential

Say value of 2,000,000 AED with 50% mortgage required.

Every month for the next 2 years 4B AED just for residential needs to be found by the cental bank..

As to rents, prices are still coming down,, only so long you can hold out for a miracle tennant.


----------



## Freestyler

234sale said:


> 10,000 units each month completed,,
> 
> 4,000 of which are freehold residential
> 
> Say value of 2,000,000 AED with 50% mortgage required.
> 
> Every month for the next 2 years 4B AED just for residential needs to be found by the cental bank..
> 
> As to rents, prices are still coming down,, only so long you can hold out for a miracle tennant.


Those are too many units. I don't like RERA's policy, it will flood the units into the market. But i guess they don't have any other choice. But I think what needs to be done is cancel unnecessary projects and move the money to better investment. Developer and investors need to be creative.


----------



## jeetha

234sale said:


> 10,000 units each month completed,,
> 
> 4,000 of which are freehold residential
> 
> Say value of 2,000,000 AED with 50% mortgage required.
> 
> Every month for the next 2 years 4B AED just for residential needs to be found by the cental bank..
> 
> As to rents, prices are still coming down,, only so long you can hold out for a miracle tennant.



Visas could have helped, but now it’s a little too late.

Dubai is now doomed big way. 

People made mistake by believing in all that “Build it and they will come”. Bullshit

Now they are stuck with these council taxes :bash: & empty properties. 

Useless Rera:bash: will do alright.


----------



## 234sale

jeetha said:


> People made mistake by believing in all that “Build it and they will come”.


veni vidi linqu


----------



## AppleMac

234sale said:


> veni vidi linqu


or in my case, Veni Vidi Velcro :cheers1:


----------



## True Blue

Morrismarina said:


> Yes I wish I was as clever dick like you TB. :lol:
> 
> Problem is your ROI figure is based on current rents which will not hold up given the over supply round the corner.


I'm glad you're not which means that I have one less competitor to worry about:lol:

My ROI figures are based on real data on the current market. Yes we can all speculate about the effect of the pending over supply but when you analyse the supply stream of apartments you can see few of them are prime or have the views and facilities that tenant will demand. Tallest block units facing each other are out of the equation straight away and will struggle to find tenants. There are very few waterfront apartments with water facing views coming. Luxury towers have been drawing tenants from mediocre JBR apartments and this will continue with all areas including JLT and SZR apartments as the softening rates become more attractive and affordable. Certain quality developments in the marina will always be in demand and this demand will stabalise rents in these prime units.

Yes, the 10% ROI may become 8% next year so you keep your money on deposit at 2% if that keeps you happy. Like I say, you will never be a millionaire with your "buy high sell low and place on low interest deposit" attitude. With FTSE back down at 5k I am now feeding converted rent money into my stocks and shares ISA rather than keep hold on low interest deposits.


----------



## laidback74

Dear All,

Is it true that current property law allows the developer to DEMAND upto 25% of the property's value from the investor if the investor defaults? I know they can RETAIN upton 25% from the investor if they have already been paid that sum but can they chase after the investor, through the courts, for upto 25% of the value of the property? 

The reason i'm asking is because a specific developer is threatening me they will chase me, through the Property Courts, for 25% of the property value even though i've only paid 11% and am not paying them anymore. I have asked them to re-posesses the unit and keep my money as well but they insist they can legally chase me for more. Can anyone on this thread clarify?


----------



## jagmp

No. They can not if you are outside Dubai.Hundreds of people have left Dubai leaving behind piles of debt.Here you are letting them take your money.Don't worry they can do nothing.


----------



## Morrismarina

jagmp said:


> No. They can not if you are outside Dubai.Hundreds of people have left Dubai leaving behind piles of debt.Here you are letting them take your money.Don't worry they can do nothing.


Interesting scenario this. Would it be possible to obtain access to Dubai though if there's a debt registered against you ?? 

I heard of a guy who left for the UK abandoning his car which was on HP at the airport and leaving come credit cards debts as well. Apparantly he'll never be able to safely enter Dubai again as the authorities will pull him up at the airpoort and he'll face a Court sentence. Presumably the same applies to a property debt ??


----------



## jagmp

It is in fact interesting.Here we are not talking about credit card and HP car loan.Your friend has borrowed the money and created debt.This person hasn't borrowed anything.

He has purchased an off plan property which is yet on the paper.He has paid towards something intangible.He is prepared to let it go along with his money.How can he be registered in the court for unpaid debt?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai property market in major oversupply threat*

By the end of 2012, there will be an oversupply of residential property in Dubai of between approximately 110,000 and 115,000 units, a report from Investment Boutique reveals. These figures would suggest that close to 500,000 people, excluding unskilled expatriate workers, will need to immigrate to Dubai in order to fill the forecast supply.

Last year was undoubtedly one of low expectations and a great deal of uncertainty, and the highlights of 2009 were few and far between for the real estate sector. 

"There were minimal transactions throughout most of the year and the numbers paled in comparison to the boom time era. There was constant downward pressure on both sales prices and lease rates that had landlords and owners competing for tenants and buyers for the first time in Dubai's recent history. Units demanded decreased in 2009 due to a falling expatriate population," the Dubai State of the Market Report 2010 by investment Boutique states. 

The firm expects the real estate sector in Dubai to remain fragile for the remainder of 2010, although it is believed that sales prices and lease rates are fast approaching their lowest point. "Affordability will be paramount going forward as speculators have left the market and demand is being created by end users. Downward pressure on prices is expected to continue until affordability matches income levels. The majority of demand is likely to remain for rentals as opposed to sales," the report predicts.

*More Dubai real estate project cancellations expected*

More project cancellations and delays are expected this year, as developers look to finish projects which are already close to completion, in order to receive bullet payments from purchasers on handover. 

The sector will continue its flight to quality, as developments with fundamental flaws will suffer the worst vacancy levels. The biggest threat to the market in 2010 however, remains the looming threat of major oversupply. 

Next year is set to provide the residential market with some much needed stability, as prices are expected to bottom out in the latter part of 2010. A lack of new projects on the market and a rising population is expected to contribute to this. "It is expected that barely any new construction projects will be launched until the outlook is a bit clearer for developers and the supply and demand equation reaches a point closer to equilibrium. Banks will slowly loosen lending criteria as they can fully understand the effects of the downturn and forecasting future results will become easier."

*Residential market confidence to return in 2012*

It is in 2012 that confidence is expected to return to the Dubai residential market. Banks are expected to loosen lending criteria, although with a better understanding of risk management. 

"No new projects are expected to be announced and launched during 2012 unless they are niche products with very unique selling points and a very specific target market. Oversupply issues in the residential sector will exacerbate and vacancy levels will vary from area to area. Investment Boutique estimates population to grow in 2012 due to job creation in the Emirate," reveals the report.

*Commercial sector to suffer*

The commercial side of Dubai's real estate sector is set to experience the same major problem as the residential side - oversupply. "The commercial real estate sector in Dubai is expected to remain over supplied in the coming years as new projects get handed over, whereas the number of office workers shows slow and steady growth. However, the planned office space is based on extremely optimistic growth forecasts, which are unlikely to be achieved and therefore the pipeline of supply after 2012 is expected to be delayed indefinitely until demand catches up with supply," the report explains.

Rents and occupancies in the commercial sector are set to come under more pressure from new supply in the market in 2010, coupled with a minimal and limited demand. Relocations are expected to increase, as companies take advantage of cheaper prices in better locations in Dubai. From 2011, Investment Boutique predicts that new demand will start to grow at a slow pace, while rental prices will fall at a slower pace than this year, although vacancies in secondary locations will continue to increase. 

In 2012 the firm expects supply to hit its peak and stabilise, although no equilibrium will be reached: "The equilibrium between demand and supply will not be achieved on an overall basis but superior locations will see normal occupancies and stable rentals whereas inferior locations will suffer from high vacancies and lower rental values as they are unlikely to attract tenants," the report concludes. 

http://www.ameinfo.com/234456.html


----------



## Mistermark

True Blue said:


> I'm glad you're not which means that I have one less competitor to worry about:lol:
> 
> My ROI figures are based on real data on the current market. Yes we can all speculate about the effect of the pending over supply but when you analyse the supply stream of apartments you can see few of them are prime or have the views and facilities that tenant will demand. Tallest block units facing each other are out of the equation straight away and will struggle to find tenants. There are very few waterfront apartments with water facing views coming. Luxury towers have been drawing tenants from mediocre JBR apartments and this will continue with all areas including JLT and SZR apartments as the softening rates become more attractive and affordable. Certain quality developments in the marina will always be in demand and this demand will stabalise rents in these prime units.
> 
> Yes, the 10% ROI may become 8% next year so you keep your money on deposit at 2% if that keeps you happy. Like I say, you will never be a millionaire with your "buy high sell low and place on low interest deposit" attitude. With FTSE back down at 5k I am now feeding converted rent money into my stocks and shares ISA rather than keep hold on low interest deposits.


I agree with much of what you say, _provided_ you already have funds in Dirhams to invest in properties, or there's a reason why you can't convert your current apartments back to Sterling (for instance, if they're not yet completed).

Imagine you can buy an apartment for AED 1m that generates a rent of 120k and has a service charge of 20k, so offers a net rent of 100k, a return of 10 percent. Sounds good, doesn't it.

However, factor in a 20 percent fall in rental yields and you're looking at 96k gross, 76k net, a yield of 7.6 percent, which is OK - but only OK. Apart from anything else, your capital may well have depreciated by 20 percent in that time on a constant currency basis, given the fall in rents.

Worse, there has to be an expectation that the exchange rate will drop to the historical average across the lifespan of the property and hence the value to you of that income will also drop in proportion. Taking the current exchange rate as 5.4 and the average as 6.7, the long-term value of those cashflows is likely to drop by a further 20 percent, to barely more than 6 percent.

I can achieve that yield in developed countries whose court systems work and which impose high construction standards on developers, and where the underlying economies are much stronger so the risks of further falls in rent are lower. So why would I want to chance my arm in Dubai?

At the very best, spectacular distress pricing aside, I think it makes sense to sit on the sidelines for the next year or so to see whether rents and purchase prices fall further and Sterling gains some strength.


----------



## Mistermark

laidback74 said:


> Dear All,
> 
> Is it true that current property law allows the developer to DEMAND upto 25% of the property's value from the investor if the investor defaults? I know they can RETAIN upton 25% from the investor if they have already been paid that sum but can they chase after the investor, through the courts, for upto 25% of the value of the property?
> 
> The reason i'm asking is because a specific developer is threatening me they will chase me, through the Property Courts, for 25% of the property value even though i've only paid 11% and am not paying them anymore. I have asked them to re-posesses the unit and keep my money as well but they insist they can legally chase me for more. Can anyone on this thread clarify?


For once, the uselessness of the legal system in Dubai works to an investor's benefit. Yes, in law you may well owe the developer money. But their courts are useless enough when both parties are in Dubai; if you're outside the country, and stay out, the chances of them being able to touch you are close to zero and of them going through with a threat to do so, given the costs involved, exactly nil.


----------



## laidback74

Dear MisterMark,

Thanks very much for that. I still don't understand though how I owe them any money if i havent actually BOUGHT anything? The property isnt mine, its theirs now. Theyre not a bank, I didnt borrow money from them on interest and am not paying them back. It doesnt make any sense. Plus, the property law No. 9 just says they can retain upto 25%, doesnt say anything about DEMANDING it from me because i owe them. Are they saying they can take 25% and still keep the property? It hasnt even been built yet! I don't get it.


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> I'm glad you're not which means that I have one less competitor to worry about:lol:
> 
> My ROI figures are based on real data on the current market. Yes we can all speculate about the effect of the pending over supply but when you analyse the supply stream of apartments you can see few of them are prime or have the views and facilities that tenant will demand. Tallest block units facing each other are out of the equation straight away and will struggle to find tenants. There are very few waterfront apartments with water facing views coming. Luxury towers have been drawing tenants from mediocre JBR apartments and this will continue with all areas including JLT and SZR apartments as the softening rates become more attractive and affordable. Certain quality developments in the marina will always be in demand and this demand will stabalise rents in these prime units.
> 
> Yes, the 10% ROI may become 8% next year so you keep your money on deposit at 2% if that keeps you happy. Like I say, you will never be a millionaire with your "buy high sell low and place on low interest deposit" attitude. With FTSE back down at 5k I am now feeding converted rent money into my stocks and shares ISA rather than keep hold on low interest deposits.


Spot on  Those with shitty apartments will suffer. Flight to location & quality.


----------



## speculator

Mistermark said:


> I agree with much of what you say, _provided_ you already have funds in Dirhams to invest in properties, or there's a reason why you can't convert your current apartments back to Sterling (for instance, if they're not yet completed).
> 
> Imagine you can buy an apartment for AED 1m that generates a rent of 120k and has a service charge of 20k, so offers a net rent of 100k, a return of 10 percent. Sounds good, doesn't it.
> 
> However, factor in a 20 percent fall in rental yields and you're looking at 96k gross, 76k net, a yield of 7.6 percent, which is OK - but only OK. Apart from anything else, your capital may well have depreciated by 20 percent in that time on a constant currency basis, given the fall in rents.
> 
> Worse, there has to be an expectation that the exchange rate will drop to the historical average across the lifespan of the property and hence the value to you of that income will also drop in proportion. Taking the current exchange rate as 5.4 and the average as 6.7, the long-term value of those cashflows is likely to drop by a further 20 percent, to barely more than 6 percent.
> 
> I can achieve that yield in developed countries whose court systems work and which impose high construction standards on developers, and where the underlying economies are much stronger so the risks of further falls in rent are lower. So why would I want to chance my arm in Dubai?
> 
> At the very best, spectacular distress pricing aside, I think it makes sense to sit on the sidelines for the next year or so to see whether rents and purchase prices fall further and Sterling gains some strength.


Too many IF's & BUT's. 
Which developed nation are you talking about that isn't in deep financial shit ? If it's a developed nation without any financial issues then I can bet they dont have a developed real estate market. i.e the market is all about renting and not ownership.

You surely cant be talking about planet Earth ?


----------



## True Blue

laidback74 said:


> Dear MisterMark,
> 
> Thanks very much for that. I still don't understand though how I owe them any money if i havent actually BOUGHT anything? The property isnt mine, its theirs now. Theyre not a bank, I didnt borrow money from them on interest and am not paying them back. It doesnt make any sense. Plus, the property law No. 9 just says they can retain upto 25%, doesnt say anything about DEMANDING it from me because i owe them. Are they saying they can take 25% and still keep the property? It hasnt even been built yet! I don't get it.


If you have signed a sales agreement then you are party to a contract and that is where you have commited yourself to making payments. Failure to make the payments puts you in breach of contract. On the otherhand if you have only signed a reservation form then just send them a cancellation notice.


----------



## Morrismarina

speculator said:


> Too many IF's & BUT's.
> Which developed nation are you talking about that isn't in deep financial shit ? If it's a developed nation without any financial issues then I can bet they dont have a developed real estate market.


Ever heard of Canada & Australia ??


----------



## Morrismarina

laidback74 said:


> Dear MisterMark,
> 
> Thanks very much for that. I still don't understand though how I owe them any money if i havent actually BOUGHT anything? The property isnt mine, its theirs now. Theyre not a bank, I didnt borrow money from them on interest and am not paying them back. It doesnt make any sense. Plus, the property law No. 9 just says they can retain upto 25%, doesnt say anything about DEMANDING it from me because i owe them. Are they saying they can take 25% and still keep the property? It hasnt even been built yet! I don't get it.


Yes True Blue is right, if you have signed a contract then you have "bought" the property. The fact that it's not built yet is irrelevant you are liable for the payments you signed up to....... unless of course there were stage payments linked to construction, which is probably unlikely.

You're luck you've only paid 11% and in reality you can walk away, so long as you leave the UAE they can't sue you.


----------



## Mistermark

laidback74 said:


> Dear MisterMark,
> 
> Thanks very much for that. I still don't understand though how I owe them any money if i havent actually BOUGHT anything? The property isnt mine, its theirs now. Theyre not a bank, I didnt borrow money from them on interest and am not paying them back. It doesnt make any sense. Plus, the property law No. 9 just says they can retain upto 25%, doesnt say anything about DEMANDING it from me because i owe them. Are they saying they can take 25% and still keep the property? It hasnt even been built yet! I don't get it.


I'm assuming you signed a contract saying you'd buy an apartment from them. The contract either said that if you pulled out you'd owe them 25 percent or it said nothing at all about this, in which case they can insist you pay them the full price of the property and their current offer to settle for 25 percent and them keeping the apartment is a concession on their part.

Admittedly in Dubai the lack of effective laws and courts means that developers can break contracts on a whim and buyers can't do anything about it, but that doesn't change the fact that they've broken their contracts and are in the wrong. You want to break a contract too, something that would land you in court and possibly bankrupted in a developed country. You should be grateful that Dubai isn't one, because on this rare occasion it looks set to work in your favour, because the courts aren't up to the task of extracting money from you that you haven't yet paid across to the developer.


----------



## Mistermark

speculator said:


> Too many IF's & BUT's.
> Which developed nation are you talking about that isn't in deep financial shit ? If it's a developed nation without any financial issues then I can bet they dont have a developed real estate market. i.e the market is all about renting and not ownership.
> 
> You surely cant be talking about planet Earth ?


While the UK's financial position isn't great, its fundamental economy is a lot sounder than Dubai's. We have a productive indigenous population that generates income from a wide range of activities. Moving a little further abroad, there are European countries whose economies are in good shape and are likely to shrug off the current Eurozone difficulties (Germany in particular). 

Elsewhere in the developed world, I see that Canada's economy grew by 6.1 percent in the year to April. Its banks weren't affected by the credit crunch, the country's businesses are buying up assets in the US and elsewhere and its wealth in minerals and oil place it superbly to benefit from global recovery.


----------



## italiano_pellicano

hi I am interested in buying a commercial property 

i can see commercial properties for sale in dubai in one central area dubai marina near the sea downtown preferably highly frequented areas Open-air

not commercial propertys in malls send me a private message or here

have a nice day


----------



## italiano_pellicano

what is the best business school in dubai


----------



## iownyou

honestly at this point i would suggest what was suggested to me in early 2008 DUMP IT!!!! if your units are not reted it out right now sell your property for whatever you can get ofcourse including a loss because if the unit is going to stay empty for the next 2 years you will loose more money from service charges i didnt think a place like dubai could ever have ghost town like feeling but i think it will i am sure turist will continue comming but until they allow people to become citizens of their country not enough fools will move there i dont know whos on this forum some familiar faces but i can tell you i have been to dubai few times and i was just there 2 weeks ago and i dont live in dream world i look at the reality of things sell sell sell the buyer that bought my property 2 weeks ago knows him self that the price will go down further because he said it him self to me but he said he is sure that the property will go back up in the next 2 years to 700 to 800 dhs per sqft i guess he still hasent woken up poor guy keeps dreaming


----------



## speculator

Mistermark said:


> While the UK's financial position isn't great, its fundamental economy is a lot sounder than Dubai's. We have a productive indigenous population that generates income from a wide range of activities. Moving a little further abroad, there are European countries whose economies are in good shape and are likely to shrug off the current Eurozone difficulties (Germany in particular).
> 
> Elsewhere in the developed world, I see that Canada's economy grew by 6.1 percent in the year to April. Its banks weren't affected by the credit crunch, the country's businesses are buying up assets in the US and elsewhere and its wealth in minerals and oil place it superbly to benefit from global recovery.


UK has loads of trouble to come yethno:
Germany: I cant imagine being on any property hot list.
Canada: Doing very well but not open to all. However I agree out of all Canada will continue its growth.
As far theses other European countries that have potential to shrug off the crisis; they are not developed YET.
Do I need to remind that it was the developed world that started these problems.hno:


----------



## iced

Mistermark said:


> While the UK's financial position isn't great, its fundamental economy is a lot sounder than Dubai's. We have a productive indigenous population that generates income from a wide range of activities. Moving a little further abroad, there are European countries whose economies are in good shape and are likely to shrug off the current Eurozone difficulties (Germany in particular).
> 
> Elsewhere in the developed world, I see that Canada's economy grew by 6.1 percent in the year to April. Its banks weren't affected by the credit crunch, the country's businesses are buying up assets in the US and elsewhere and its wealth in minerals and oil place it superbly to benefit from global recovery.


Mistermark, you made an excellent previous post relating to returns and some of the risks involved in dubai property. Also a good reminder of the lack of legal framework in dubai and the UAE in general.

Granted that most of the developed world has or will have falling house prices (even Canada give it time as rates rise), the risk in investing in dubai given factors such as supply, population, income etc is extremely high compared to countries such as UK, US etc. There maybe greater falls in these countries in terms of asset prices but yields will be higher due to stable rents and no currency (unless of course you are an oversea investor. 

With such a murky picture i agree that it is better to be on the sidelines for this year and also probably for next year as well as fear and volatility will continue in the financial markets which will affect the currency rates. Given this i may found that investing in Uk or Europe a better proposition possbily at the end of the year from a risk/return only. Other factors based on lifestyle tastes climate etc may reduce or increase appeal of such decisions.


----------



## MannyJoe

Will a bank give a mortgage on a property that isnt registered with them?


----------



## 234sale

^^ No.


----------



## Mistermark

italiano_pellicano said:


> what is the best business school in dubai


London Business School.


----------



## DXBQuantum

Are any of you looking at Brazil at the moment?

Seems that people are offering good deals, but no planning permission for projects?

Anyone have any experience?


----------



## diku

DXBQuantum said:


> Are any of you looking at Brazil at the moment?
> 
> Seems that people are offering good deals, but no planning permission for projects?
> 
> Anyone have any experience?


elysin had announced one before one week.
Not sure waht is the outcome...


----------



## DXBQuantum

Yeah I saw that, but others are also offering it as well...

Seems quite a good idea with the Olympics and football coming up.


----------



## laidback74

Mistermark said:


> I'm assuming you signed a contract saying you'd buy an apartment from them. The contract either said that if you pulled out you'd owe them 25 percent or it said nothing at all about this, in which case they can insist you pay them the full price of the property and their current offer to settle for 25 percent and them keeping the apartment is a concession on their part.
> 
> Admittedly in Dubai the lack of effective laws and courts means that developers can break contracts on a whim and buyers can't do anything about it, but that doesn't change the fact that they've broken their contracts and are in the wrong. You want to break a contract too, something that would land you in court and possibly bankrupted in a developed country. You should be grateful that Dubai isn't one, because on this rare occasion it looks set to work in your favour, because the courts aren't up to the task of extracting money from you that you haven't yet paid across to the developer.


Dear MisterMark,

I see what you're saying. I have only signed a booking form with them, not a contract. The form clearly states liquidation damages of 10%, which they already have obtained from me through my 11% downpayment. Had i signed the contract, it would have superceded this booking form, but i didn't. Naturally, I still expect them to threaten me regardless, since Law No. 9 is supposed to retroactively supercede ALL forms of agreement, so I'm not sure what will happen next. 

I'll keep everyone posted though as I'm sure there's many others in a similar situation.


----------



## True Blue

^^I would say you are in the clear to walk away by just serving a notice of cancellation of the booking. There is such a thing as a cooling off period and if the developer did not get a signature on a contract then they have the problem, not you. The amount of the deposit is meant to represent the loss and expense(liquidated damages)of the developer should you fail to complete the sale by entering into the formal contact of sale and puchase.


----------



## vaksa

laidback74 said:


> ...the property law No. 9 just says they can retain upto 25%, doesnt say anything about DEMANDING it from me because i owe them.


*The Executive Council's Decree No. (6) of 2010
On Approving the Executive Regulations of Law No. (13) of 2008
On Regulating the Interim Real Estate Register In the Emirate of Dubai

Article (15)*In the event that a purchaser violates any of his obligations stipulated in the real estate sale contract he made with the developer, then the following procedures shall be followed:
a- The developer shall notify the purchaser asking him to abide by his contractual obligations, either by hand before the Department or in writing by registered post or email provided that the developer provide the Department with a copy of such notice.
b- The Department shall give the purchaser 30 days notice to fulfill his contractual obligations commencing from the date of sending such notice by the developer.
c- If at the end of the period referred to in item (b) of this Article the purchaser has not fulfilled his contractual obligations, the developer may:
1- Retain the whole sums he received from the purchaser and demand either to sell the real estate at an auction to collect the rest of his entitlements or to deduct no more than 40% of the value of the real estate unit and rescind the contract on condition that the developer has fulfilled a minimum of 80% of
the project;
2- Deduct no more than 40% of the value of the real estate unit stipulated in the contract and rescind the contract on condition that the developer has fulfilled a minimum of 60% of the project;
3- Deduct no more than 25% of the value of the real estate unit stipulated in the contract and rescind the contract on condition that the developer has fulfilled a minimum of 60% of the project; and
4- Deduct no more than 30% of the value of the sums paid by the purchaser to the developer and rescind the contract on condition that the developer has not yet commence implementing the project for reasons out of his control.
d- The developer may request the competent court of law to issue a rule entitling him to all the percentages referred to in Paragraph (c) of this Article in cases that sums in his possessions are less than the percentages mentioned in items (1), (2), (3) and (4).


----------



## Flintbug

*Sell or Hold for UK taxpayers?*

At what price does it no longer become sensible to sell? I believe we are already there and those with properties can simply relax and wait for the market to catch up with reality.

Why?

Those who bought in the last 4 years (the majority) would probably have to take a capital loss despite very favourable exchange rates converting AED to GBP. This loss may possibly be better tied to offset gains after the new UK capital gains taxes become clearer.

The investment value elsewhere is pathetic right now. Rentals in Dubai are still very active providing a good return on any current potential sale value (note I haven't said the purchase price as that is likely pie-in-the-sky). There are plenty shifting from Abu Dhabi and Sharjah to quickly fill the new units being released.

Even if you can't rent out, the alternative of having an available holiday home for friends and family in a pretty much guaranteed sunshine destination, is worth a few bob.

And the biggest fundamental reason is that Abu Dhabi is not going to be poor any time soon.

My thinking is to sit quietly, taking the market rents, watching the current constructions complete and for Dubai to look less of a building site, waiting for the time that well-located new places coming on the market dry up. 

I do expect the Dubai Government will deal with the fault lines in the courts and could possibly create a much clearer simpler system very soon. Read the new laws and regulations carefully and you see signs that much could be automated and summary rulings made. Imagine the effect on developers if their investors could simply pay a court fee that then automatically triggered a check that they had fulfilled all their obligations or else returned monies from the Escrow accounts.


----------



## Beppe786

one of my apartments is nearing completion. how easy would it be to re-mortgage, need to release fund as its all been paid up front.. will have to to wait untill its completed, or can i get the ball rolling before hand


----------



## speculator

Flintbug said:


> At what price does it no longer become sensible to sell? I believe we are already there and those with properties can simply relax and wait for the market to catch up with reality.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Those who bought in the last 4 years (the majority) would probably have to take a capital loss despite very favourable exchange rates converting AED to GBP. This loss may possibly be better tied to offset gains after the new UK capital gains taxes become clearer.
> 
> The investment value elsewhere is pathetic right now. Rentals in Dubai are still very active providing a good return on any current potential sale value (note I haven't said the purchase price as that is likely pie-in-the-sky). There are plenty shifting from Abu Dhabi and Sharjah to quickly fill the new units being released.
> 
> Even if you can't rent out, the alternative of having an available holiday home for friends and family in a pretty much guaranteed sunshine destination, is worth a few bob.
> 
> And the biggest fundamental reason is that Abu Dhabi is not going to be poor any time soon.
> 
> My thinking is to sit quietly, taking the market rents, watching the current constructions complete and for Dubai to look less of a building site, waiting for the time that well-located new places coming on the market dry up.
> 
> I do expect the Dubai Government will deal with the fault lines in the courts and could possibly create a much clearer simpler system very soon. Read the new laws and regulations carefully and you see signs that much could be automated and summary rulings made. Imagine the effect on developers if their investors could simply pay a court fee that then automatically triggered a check that they had fulfilled all their obligations or else returned monies from the Escrow accounts.


Totally agree. Glad to read some sense for a change.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The oversupply of property in Dubai is already here, while Abu Dhabi continues to be a relatively tight market.

A search of the Property Finder real estate listings' website reveals that Dubai has 18,887 properties for sale and 11,366 available for rent. For Abu Dhabi, the market supply is much tighter, with 2,099 units for sale and 1,372 looking for tenants.

Going forward, market estimates for Dubai are for an additional 20,000 units to be added to this pool in 2010 and 2011. Abu Dhabi is building less real estate but there will be a significant increase in supply in certain categories such as high-end residential apartments.

Concentrations of vacant property are already evident in Dubai. Fancy an apartment on the iconic Palm Jumeirah? Well there are 1,394 to choose from, according to the website, and 439 with three or more bedrooms.

Or perhaps you want to buy an apartment in the Jumeirah Beach Residence facing the beach in the Dubai Marina district? Take your pick from the 713 properties listed.

It is amazing then that asking prices for properties in Dubai actually seem to have increased over the past six months, and even selling prices. This appears to have more to do with a global economic rebound, manifested in higher trade and tourism in Dubai, than the supply and demand dynamics of the local real estate sector. Indeed, the oversupply continues to increase by the day as developers proudly hand over completed units.

The Goldcrest Tower in Jumeirah Lakes Towers alone added another 500 units last month. Developer Damac Properties has even just placed a Dh500 million contract with Arabtec to build another 600-apartment tower in the Dubai Marina, claiming that by the time it is finished in two years, the demand will have returned.

This is a truly heroic assumption in the face of current existing oversupply in Dubai and the upcoming completions. Where are the new buyers and tenants going to come from?

*Demand side*

The UAE is now recovering from the local recession of 2009 but the most optimistic government estimates are for modest economic growth over the next couple of years. There will be some expansion of employment in tourism and aviation with new hotels and aircraft raising staff supply and accommodation needs.

Then again, nobody is expecting a sudden burst of growth in the global economy, outside perhaps of Asia where talk of overheating is already depressing local stock markets. In fact, Europe, including the UK, seems to be heading back into recession in a new age of austerity and that will not be good news for UAE tourism for which this is the biggest market.

Oil prices have slipped back over the past few weeks and if the downturn in global markets gains traction — with a double dip recession perfectly predictable as witnessed from other major financial crises in the past — then the UAE is going to be left knee-deep in unsold and un-let apartments, and to a lesser extent villas.

Further house price and rental reductions look inevitable in such an economic environment and the supply and demand situation will exaggerate this problem to the downside. But there will need to be a trigger to start this price correction process.

Step forward the repossessionauctions, due to begin very soon to allow developers to sell off-plan units where buyers have defaulted on their payments. The aim is to permit developers to raise funds to complete their projects. This is the final stage of clearing up the mess left by the Dubai off-plan sales collapse more than 18 months ago.

Unfortunately, repossession auctions are a double-whammy for house prices. First, auctions reset market prices at lower levels by matching prices with the true level of market demand. Secondly, if successful auctions allow developers to complete their projects, they will add to the oversupply of property and therefore depress prices.

Unless something happens very soon to ramp up oil prices to a level that revives the economic boom that formerly prevailed in the UAE — always a possibility as the current boom in China demonstrates — then a second day of reckoning seems to be dawning for the local real estate sector.

That will throw up some deals of a lifetime for buyers and tenants but will present a new challenge to developers and their bankers.

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/watch-prices-as-units-go-under-the-hammer-1.632050


----------



## cayman1

Price volatility in Dubai's property market has started to abate as the bid/ask spread began to narrow in May compared to the previous month, while mortgage lending has spiked in the last two months, according to HC Securities yesterday.

"Our transaction survey shows a sudden spike in mortgage purchases above pre-crisis levels to Dh1 billion in April 2010 and Dh0.9bn in May," Majed Azzam, Analyst – Real Estate, HC Securities, wrote in the lastest report on the real sector.

Liquidity seems to be returning to the sector following the announcement of the Dubai World debt resolution terms with the UAE Central Bank data pointing to a Dh4bn rise in total mortgages in the first quarter of this year.

Mortgages, according to the report, accounted for 37 per cent of total transaction value in April and 30 per cent in May, up from an average of 17 per cent in 2009. Mortgage volumes stood at 24 per cent in April and 22 per cent in May compared to an average of 12 per cent last year.

The pickup in mortgages appears to be broad-based with established communities seeing the bulk of transactions, suggesting that deliveries had a limited impact. The Downtown area (mainly South Ridge, Residences, and Old Town), the Emirates Hills area and Dubai Marina saw the strongest growth in leveraged purchases of apartments, while Palm Jumeirah and the Ranches recorded the highest growth in mortgages for villas.

The easing liquidity seems to be driven by foreign banks as local lenders still face funding constrains and continue to follow a more conservative policy.

"That said, since mortgages remained available, albeit more selectively, we believe the recent surge in leveraged transactions also indicates a shift in investor perception. The view being that the market has bottomed and/or rental yield expansion is imminent, compensating for still high mortgage rates [7.5 per cent versus average yields of six per cent]," added the report.

HC Securities' Dubai property price index suggests that the second market trough was formed in January 2010 with prices rebounding by 12 per cent since then, paring most of the losses following the standstill announcement in November 2009.

Price gains

Gains were recorded across the board, but Emirates Hills First, Nad Al Shiba, Rega Al Buteen, and Jumeirah Village First stood out as the areas with the highest price increases. The strong price gains appear to be driven by easing liquidity (particularly apartments), with a strong pickup in leveraged transactions to 429 in April and 376 in May from an average 178 units last year. There was also a strong pick-up in transaction volumes to 1,944 units in April and 2,073 in May from 926 units in January and an average of 1,021 units in 2009. Oversupply remains the biggest concern, but there appears to have been a further slowdown in construction activity recently.

"We understand that development of raw land is being restricted. Also, given the tight liquidity, developers continue to consolidate their projects. Additionally, anecdotal evidence suggests the job market is starting to move again with the services sector leading the way," Azzam wrote in the report.

Land sales subdued

While the unit sales market has shown initial signs of recovery, plot sales remain subdued at levels comparable to those of fourth quarter 2008. Since land is typically a residual play on build-up property and considering that it is usually driven by corporate rather than retail demand, it is likely to take longer for improved fundamentals to be reflected. That said, Sorouh's Dh216 million plot sale in the first quarter 2010 to a private UAE developer at premium prices is an indication that the market has started to see some activity.

"Nevertheless, land sales are likely to remain subdued until we see a strong pickup in property prices. Plot prices in Dubai have recorded a peak-to-trough decline of 88 per cent compared to a drop of 37 per cent for properties. Our plot transaction survey shows a slight pickup in value traded, with Dh10.4bn recorded in April and May compared to Dh11bn in first quarter 2010 and Dh9bn in fourth quarter 2009. Rentals seem to have stabilised – down four per cent in April 2010, but up two per cent in May 2010 – with yields hovering around six per cent since the beginning of the year. Since rentals, unlike prices, are a pure reflection of demand and supply dynamics, the stabilisation since November 2009 suggests the market is reaching equilibrium despite additional supply coming on. Rentals in Dubai were helped by the spillover from neighbouring emirates (particularly Abu Dhabi), which anecdotal evidence suggests gained momentum last year.

While initial signs of rental stabilisation are emerging, forthcoming supply might again pressure rentals in 2010 and 2011. The restructuring of Nakheel, which controls 50 per cent of expected supply on HC Securities estimate, is bound to lead to further project delays and cancellations, which supports sector dynamics. The report said: "There appears to be a further slowdown in construction activity more recently due to reported restrictions on the development of raw land."

"Given the tight liquidity, developers continue to consolidate their projects. The expected recovery in the global economy and stronger economic growth in the UAE this year is likely to support demand," Azzam said.

The strong pick-up in transaction volumes in March, April and May (almost double January and February) meant that despite a 10 per cent increase in the available-for-sale/lease stock, largely on deliveries, the take-up rate dropped to 2.2 months in May 2010 from a peak of 10.1 months in December 2008.

Off plan listings continued to decline, dropping four per cent month-on-month to 313 units in May 2010 from 327 units in April 2010. "We believe this is partly a reflection of projects put on hold, deliveries taking place during the year, and a weaker demand for unready units," the report said.

According to HC Securities, there were 4,223 ready listings in May 2010, around six per cent lower than April's listings of 4,490. Lease listings increased six per cent in May 2010 as able investors increasingly choose to hold their properties, especially with signs of rising rentals and yield expansion.

In contrast to agreed prices, asking prices in Dubai dropped three per cent in February 2010 and another six per cent in March. "They have since stabilised," the report said. Since the onset of the global financial crisis, headline prices have corrected 42 per cent compared to 37 per cent for agreed prices. Advertised prices tend to be more rigid as they are not updated frequently enough to reflect a real-time trend. Besides, the bid/ask spread compressed to 40 per cent in May 2010 – a sign that volatility is abating – after expanding to 51 per cent following the standstill announcement.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai realty charms Asian investors: StanChart

Buyers from Singapore, Hong Kong and India now see Dubai as well priced.

Initial signs of interest are emerging among Asian investors to invest in Dubai's real estate where the prices have been pretty attractive following a sharp drop over the past two years, said V Shankar, Chief Executive Officer of Standard Chartered for Europe, Middle East, Africa and Americas.

"When I talk to people in Singapore, Hong Kong and India, I can see individuals thinking of buying property here… Investors have started to think about investing here and it's a good sign.

"That is usually the early stage of recovery as the people are beginning to look at the market favourably; it is all about confidence."

Property prices have dropped 45 per cent from third quarter 2008 peak levels, Bank of America Merrill Lynch said in a recent report. But HC Securities yesterday said that property prices in Dubai are on the rise, reflecting growing interest in the emirate's real estate sector.

He said the bank is active in mortgage but exposure to commercial real estate in the Middle East is not big.

Shankar hoped that the organic growth, improved efficiency and gaining market share from rivals will help the Asian-focused bank to double its revenues from $2 billion (Dh7.34bn) to $4bn over the next five years from the Middle East region.

He said: "If you use downturn as an opportunity to restructure and get yourself leaner, fitter and more competitive, then you could emerge stronger.

Looking back to Asia in 1997, countries that restructured emerged much stronger out of that; initial period of 3-4 years was quite painful but history records show that each one of those countries that restructured to certain degree are weathering the current crisis crisis very well. You can turn adversity into fortune, said Shankar. He also highlighted globalisation and lack of soft infrastructure development as two major problems for the Middle East.

*"Biggest risk for the region is to assume in the globalised world that you're immune to whatever happened in other parts of the world. You're living in a globalised world. We used to talk about decoupling; but there is no decoupling. The second risk is the growth in hard infrastructure has far outpaced the growth in soft infrastructure. So for longer-term competitiveness standpoint, heightened focus around building soft infrastructure is important," said Shankar.*

Soft infrastructure includes education, imparting skills, making populations employable, importing skilled immigration, good corporate governance and deepening the capital market.

Standard Chartered expects growth in both retail and consumer banking segments and will hire additional 50 relationship managers in priority banking and wealth management. "We are seeing growth in priority banking and wealth management. Last year, wealth management suffered because clients were risk averse and not buying anything; but this year consumers are coming back and there is consumer organic growth."

Commenting on upcoming debt rollover by Dubai Holdings, Shankar said the bank is supportive of rollover as the bank is a "long- term player" in the region and has seen many economic cycles.

He said there is large local currency liquidity but there is shortage of dollar liquidity because the hot money has flown back.

The bank's Islamic banking unit is witnessing strong growth. "Growth in our Islamic banking has been fantastic. The two major areas it is growing in is GCC and Malaysia with 30-35 per cent growth in top line."

Shankar said the bank will open a representative office in Libya in H2 2010.

http://www.business24-7.ae/companie...asian-investors-stanchart-2010-06-08-1.252984


----------



## italiano_pellicano

what is the cost of a villa in dubai 

near the beach or near in the central dubai land what house you can buy with 200 thousand dollars in a good area


----------



## williamX

*no villa*



italiano_pellicano said:


> what is the cost of a villa in dubai
> 
> near the beach or near in the central dubai land what house you can buy with 200 thousand dollars in a good area


Hi!
You won't find villa in Dubai for 200K $. Minimum price in springs is 300-350K $ for tiny townhouse villa with 2 bedrooms.


----------



## italiano_pellicano

williamX said:


> Hi!
> You won't find villa in Dubai for 200K $. Minimum price in springs is 300-350K $ for tiny townhouse villa with 2 bedrooms.


because you do not have a page where they sell only for billionaires :lol::lol:


----------



## italiano_pellicano

friends what is the cost of the life in dubai


----------



## italiano_pellicano

hi

what is the price of cedre villas the 4 types

Details Of Cedre Villas

prices of the villas and townhouses


----------



## mackie1964

DXBQuantum said:


> Calm Down Mackie,
> 
> as with 234sale, When I went there everyone was using common areas internet.
> 
> Park Island and Marina Quays - by Emaar are going at around 80,000 AED, people will prefer an Emaar development over Timeplace.


OK, No Worries.

I would agree with Emaar early developments but not the latest within the Marina. They were built by DCE and quality is inferior to Timeplace. I have been to see them a few months back as I was offered a couple of bargains.

:cheers:


----------



## mackie1964

234sale said:


> I would rather pay 90K to be in a one bed in the first 6 towers, than the "others".
> 
> Question is, if timeplace is 70K for a one bedroom,,, how much is JLT now 45K?


I agree, sorry I read your comments after writing mine. MP by Emaar is also good but nothing else in the Marina but, the service charges/chiller fees were scary. That's why I gave it a miss. :cheers:


----------



## mackie1964

wittyman said:


> I have a 1 BR apartment in Time Place at near the middle of the first ten floors with Marina view and spacious balcony. It is rented by the same tenant (he is a good chap)for the last one and a half year. The rent started at 120K / 2 checks for the first year and then 35K for the next 6 monts (70K / 2 checks on annual basis) Now the tenant wants to have a new contract for 1 year. He says he wants to pay 60K / 4 checks. Is this the market rate and terms for Time Place now?
> 
> What he offers is the same amount and terms I got 9 months ago for my other apartment at the Dreams Luxury Apartments, which is smaller and not on water front.
> 
> How much would be fair given the current market for 1,2,3 and 4 checks?
> 
> Imre, I benefited highly from your comment for my other apartment. I will appreciate your comment for this one too. Of course anybody else's view is also welcome.
> 
> Thanks for your kind help.


Until Imre answers you, here is my $0.02;

Depending on what type of unit and who is paying the service fees. You should get between AED70,000 and AED 80,000 and by the time you pay maintenance + Chiller fees (AED 11k approx) you should aim to clear 60k net to you but it's all depending on your circumstances and willing to wait. There are only 4 or 5 one BR available for rent at Timeplace at present but the wider competition is fierce. Moving home is not easy, even for a single person, I would use that to my advantage if I was you. Good Luck :cheers:


----------



## DXBQuantum

JLT is very cheap. Even more supply than Marina.

I just had a look on Dubizzle - some are 40,000 AED !


----------



## carpetking

Maintenance fee in Timeplace allincl. is 13 Dhs per sq/ft.This is one of the lowest in the whole Marina area.The indoorpool is well maintained clear water and 29 to 31 degree.
The car park is cleaned every day.Look at the common area nice green garden and marble floor in the 3 storeys lobby.

1 bedroom apartment in 29th floor with prime Marina and Palm view is 70-80K pa


----------



## bizzybonita




----------



## Pleth

noir-dresses said:


> Your tenant is taking advantage of you, and the market.
> 
> I would raise the rent up to 100,000 AED/year non negotiable, only 2 cheques, and tell him take it or leave it. It's the marina for god sakes, not a fruit market. He will respect you more when you are tough, if not the next tenant will be house trained from the start.
> 
> When I take a better look at my yearly rent after expenses at JLT it's still a lot less than what I make a month at my day job, so I wouldn't take any crap from any tenant, period.


You will never get 100.000 Aed/year. hno: Never.
You can get a wonderfuld one bedr. in Dorra Bay for 60.000 - 65.000 Aed right next to Jumeirah Beach Walk.


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> Pfffff, I've seen a very regular (lady driven) car leaving the parking :lol:


^^Yeah! they're called maids:lol:

I saw a tidy female leave The Jewels once and cross the road to a parked Merc SL convertible. It was back parked there every day. I guess she was such a bad driver she couldn't get it in the basement without scratching it. Mind you only time I ever heard Imre swear was when he tried to park the Landcruiser in the Jewels:lol:


----------



## Imre

wittyman said:


> I have a 1 BR apartment in Time Place at near the middle of the first ten floors with Marina view and spacious balcony. It is rented by the same tenant (he is a good chap)for the last one and a half year. The rent started at 120K / 2 checks for the first year and then 35K for the next 6 monts (70K / 2 checks on annual basis) Now the tenant wants to have a new contract for 1 year. He says he wants to pay 60K / 4 checks. Is this the market rate and terms for Time Place now?
> 
> What he offers is the same amount and terms I got 9 months ago for my other apartment at the Dreams Luxury Apartments, which is smaller and not on water front.
> 
> How much would be fair given the current market for 1,2,3 and 4 checks?
> 
> Imre, I benefited highly from your comment for my other apartment. I will appreciate your comment for this one too. Of course anybody else's view is also welcome.
> 
> Thanks for your kind help.


Around 60-65K/year should be ok for that apartment, for 50K you can get a 1 B/r of Marina Diamonds, DEC Tower ,Manchester Tower etc..


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> ^^Yeah! they're called maids:lol:
> 
> I saw a tidy female leave The Jewels once and cross the road to a parked Merc SL convertible. It was back parked there every day. I guess she was such a bad driver she couldn't get it in the basement without scratching it. Mind you only time I ever heard Imre swear was when he tried to park the Landcruiser in the Jewels:lol:


Jewels car park was designed for Toyota Yaris or maybe Smart not for Landcruiser and Hummer


----------



## bizzybonita

^^ for 50k-45k only studio on Marina Diamonds, DEC Tower ,Manchester Tower ! it could be low depend on view , floor level & quality !


----------



## Imre

bizzybonita said:


> ^^ for 50k-45k only studio on Marina Diamonds, DEC Tower ,Manchester Tower ! it could be low depend on view , floor level & quality !


easy to find 1 b/r's also:

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/search/me...ice_min=AED&price_max=50000&sitesearch=Search


----------



## bizzybonita

^^ yes. Basically,this type of advertise flip all market only just for bring tenants in zone of attractive after that they will saying it's finished blah blah we have here n there !


----------



## Mistermark

noir-dresses said:


> Your tenant is taking advantage of you, and the market.
> 
> I would raise the rent up to 100,000 AED/year non negotiable, only 2 cheques, and tell him take it or leave it. It's the marina for god sakes, not a fruit market. He will respect you more when you are tough, if not the next tenant will be house trained from the start.
> 
> When I take a better look at my yearly rent after expenses at JLT it's still a lot less than what I make a month at my day job, so I wouldn't take any crap from any tenant, period.


I suspect the OP will be looking for another tenant. For some time...


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> Around 60-65K/year should be ok for that apartment, for 50K you can get a 1 B/r of Marina Diamonds, DEC Tower ,Manchester Tower etc..


You get what you pay for! The Timeplace apartment is full water view on low floor so I think 70k is reasonable. if the tenant wants to move he has moving costs and commision to pay, maybe even a new deposit if the apartment is not clean.




Imre said:


> Jewels car park was designed for Toyota Yaris or maybe Smart not for Landcruiser and Hummer


Minutes of the last owners meeting noted a vote to modify the entrances and for Cayan to obtain quotes from contractors for the work. The ramp walls are covered in collision marks, damn women drivers!:lol:


----------



## Josau

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/rent-migration-to-intensify-1.639665


----------



## IISinbadII

Hey guys,

Is it is possible for someone to open a brokerage account in Dubai to trade *US stocks* (NASDAQ, NYSE). 

If so, what are some big name brokerage houses or banks that offer this facility.

Thanks.


----------



## Ossi

Hi IISindbadII

You should check this link

https://global.etrade.com/me/en/home


----------



## Philippa C

I drove up Emirates Rd towards Jebel Ali today for the first time in ages. I could not believe the number of high rises that have sprung up and the number of villas along the way. Some of the ldevelopments seemed at a bit of a standstill.

The other thing that struck me was the real difference that's emerging between new and established developments. We live at the Ranches and you just can't compare a villa in an established community with one of the Limitless or JV villas along EMirates Rd. At the Ranches, there's a big buffer of greenery all around while in some of the new developments the villas are very close to the road. 

The new roads and flyovers going in are pretty impressive. I did think too that Dubai will be ready with the infrastructure, cheap offices and accommodation when the things do improve - no laughing please!


----------



## IISinbadII

Ossi said:


> Hi IISindbadII
> 
> You should check this link
> 
> https://global.etrade.com/me/en/home


THANKS.
Any others?


----------



## jeetha

Anyway it’s way too hot to stay in Dubai. 

End of discussion from me.


----------



## glover

you are in seriuos denial here, you don't know how bad the market is!!

BTW 70, not 700.



jeetha said:


> 25k in the Marina.:bash:
> 
> That is why it’s getting 700 hits in searches. Estate agents tricks by advertising low to get interest in their brand.
> 
> Probably will still be there for the next 2 years.


----------



## bizzybonita

*Post by italiano_pellicano *

what is a price of a house in dubai marina or jumeirah village ?

i need some info on this . villa or apartment ? how many beds ? :cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

I hope Dubai will find a way to bring in new resident's, cause the investor's don't have a reason to be there any more.


----------



## IEK

Yes unfotunately they are endeavouring to do just that but I am charging the whole amount plus hotel apartment for the last 8 weeks to the developer.


----------



## Josau

glover said:


> ^^^^^^ crazy, or denial!!!!
> 
> just checked rentals in dubizzle for studios in the marina for 40k and below, got 70 hits. one was as low as 25k.


^^ I agree, rents are falling, but the ad in dubizzle you refer to is 25k for 6 months in 2 cheques for a fully furnished studio in MVT A.


----------



## jeetha

^^^^ So I almost had a heart attack over nothing.


----------



## glover

^^^^ oh come on, grow up!! you said 38k is "crazy" prices for the marina and a lie, and i bought your attention to many listings for less than 40k in the marina today, and you are stil debating this. please wake up and smell the coffee!!


----------



## Josau

*Al Jazeera coverage*

Will it change anything? Don't know, but it is a good start.
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/201061694950451533.html


----------



## jeetha

^^Someone should look into RERA.


----------



## bizzybonita

LOL for Al Jazeera , Dubai was the first of everything new in this region and still it is . the only thing they can do is to inferiority the image of Dubai to became Qatar that much of interesting for investors ... sorry with all respect but Qatar need at least 10 years more to have Dubai's Echo Advertising from all globe


----------



## 9714

bizzy, you are an enigma!!


----------



## Josau

bizzybonita said:


> LOL for Al Jazeera , Dubai was the first of everything new in this region and still it is . the only thing they can do is to inferiority the image of Dubai to became Qatar that much of interesting for investors ... sorry with all respect but Qatar need at least 10 years more to have Dubai's Echo Advertising from all globe


^^agreed, but still, this is out on Al Jazeera in English and lots of people see it. I am happy that subjects like this are treated in the international press, there should be even more coverage, it's the only way the authorities will move their butts.


----------



## Pleth

Josau said:


> Will it change anything? Don't know, but it is a good start.
> http://english.aljazeera.net/video/201061694950451533.html


How true. hno:
The investors can either choose between putting more money in the black hole or loose everything they they have paid so far.


----------



## Pleth

4 Years ago I invested 140.000 Euro in what should have become my home in Dubai Marina.

The developer of Al Dua'a Tower informed us 8 months ago that they have run out of money and cannot build anymore. The have only done the piling. 

The fact is that I pay yearly 10.000 Euro in interest on this mortgage and I pay 12.000 Euro in renting another home!

This is a vicious circle that I cannot get out of. Any ideas anybody?


----------



## Josau

More of the same:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/business/2010/06/17/dubais-property-bubble-without-answers

As long as the fundamentals of the UAE society stay the same, which is taking no responsibility, nothing will change. The "act of god" clause, which basically covers everything in a contract is the fundamental problem of any contract in the UAE, not only in real estate. It can lead to: "Sorry, but god didn't want me to wake up in time and I missed the appointment".
I see signs of change however, but if the UAE and especially Abu Dhabi and Dubai want to become major players this has to stop. I still do business there, but I don't move anymore before I haven't seen all the money up front, this is where my trust level is. A "word" is not a "word" and a contract is just a piece of paper.


----------



## TerryPop

Pleth said:


> 4 Years ago I invested 140.000 Euro in what should have become my home in Dubai Marina.
> 
> The developer of Al Dua'a Tower informed us 8 months ago that they have run out of money and cannot build anymore. The have only done the piling.
> 
> The fact is that I pay yearly 10.000 Euro in interest on this mortgage and I pay 12.000 Euro in renting another home!
> 
> This is a vicious circle that I cannot get out of. Any ideas anybody?


Have they said they will not finish?

With the Govt entities yet to get up off their knees, and still failing to deliver on contractually agreed promises

What can you really expect from the rest of the developers in Dubai?


----------



## FWIW

Pleth said:


> 4 Years ago I invested 140.000 Euro in what should have become my home in Dubai Marina.
> 
> The developer of Al Dua'a Tower informed us 8 months ago that they have run out of money and cannot build anymore. The have only done the piling.
> 
> The fact is that I pay yearly 10.000 Euro in interest on this mortgage and I pay 12.000 Euro in renting another home!
> 
> This is a vicious circle that I cannot get out of. Any ideas anybody?


If you can get free legal advice (i.e. Citizen's advice bureau) go there and see what their view is.

Inform the bank what has happened. Tell them you have also run out of money. Get them to freeze interest payments. If they do not play ball tell them to get your Country of residence financial regulation authority to contact UAE. Tell them that you bought a home to live in and cannot proceed due to no fault on your side. 

Good luck with this.


----------



## Mistermark

Josau said:


> More of the same:
> http://blogs.aljazeera.net/business/2010/06/17/dubais-property-bubble-without-answers
> 
> As long as the fundamentals of the UAE society stay the same, which is taking no responsibility, nothing will change. The "act of god" clause, which basically covers everything in a contract is the fundamental problem of any contract in the UAE, not only in real estate. It can lead to: "Sorry, but god didn't want me to wake up in time and I missed the appointment".
> I see signs of change however, but if the UAE and especially Abu Dhabi and Dubai want to become major players this has to stop. I still do business there, but I don't move anymore before I haven't seen all the money up front, this is where my trust level is. A "word" is not a "word" and a contract is just a piece of paper.


I think 'act of God' or 'force majeure' is often used, fraudulently, by companies in UAE to avoid their contractual liabilities. Personally I don't think the law is to blame; rather, it's the courts. The wait to get a hearing is far too long, the capabilities of some of those involved is questionable, and of course there's always the cousin's friend factor, which sadly undermines transparency in so much of the Middle East. Likewise, as the article states, RERA is at best overwhelmed with cases and, at worst, window dressing.


----------



## Flintbug

Mistermark said:


> I think 'act of God' or 'force majeure' is often used, fraudulently, by companies in UAE to avoid their contractual liabilities. Personally I don't think the law is to blame; rather, it's the courts. The wait to get a hearing is far too long, the capabilities of some of those involved is questionable, and of course there's always the cousin's friend factor, which sadly undermines transparency in so much of the Middle East. Likewise, as the article states, RERA is at best overwhelmed with cases and, at worst, window dressing.


RERA theoretically has the power to close down unethical developers by removing their license. In better times they could have simply done this to a couple of developers and the rest would begin to follow the law more closely and make everyone's life including RERA much simpler.


----------



## Jesus.C

GSS said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Visited Fortunato yesterday progress seems to have been made , pretty similar to the pics posted above .....From what I see I dont think they are gonna be ready for the next 2 months.
> 
> We are going to vist Al tajir tomorow as we visited DIB as well to find out what are options are as a Customer/Investor.
> 
> I go along with the comment made by one of you above....That we need to form some sort of a Forum to get heard and to ensure that things start gettin done with the delays....
> 
> 1] Form a Forum - Investors Forum
> 2] Do something about the interest that will soon be due ......Waiver, gets paid by the developer ,etc ( I know its ambitious but atleast if we aim high we may reach somewhere )
> 
> I understand delays but delays for almost a year above ......as a Customer now the ball is in our court ...so lets do something abt it ...DIB says they will support us with legal notices if required....
> 
> Awaitin replies.....


Hi ^^

I totally agree we should be compensated either by the following:

-Reducing the service or maintenance fees (any way the reality project JV !!!will take 5 years to complete so will be living in a construction area)

-At least they provide appliances 

-Reduce the unit selling price and coordinate with the bank the new price.

Also I got to know that Al Tajer has reviled the Nakheel request for the service fees. 16 AED per sqf !!!!!!! :weird::eek2:This is not acceptable for what it’s not even a gated community and it’s a construction site. We have to start talking to them ASAP
I am in >no::storm:


----------



## TerryPop

*investment forum *

Mortgage in Dubai- AED 2000,000 cost per month 15100 AED (repayment)

Mortgage in Europe- AED 2000,000 per month 9,600 AED (repayment)



Just you wait henry higgins just you wait.


----------



## lazy daisy

Guys I have a 1 bed apt aprox 1200 sqft in Marina Terrace ( Damac ) lower floor and marina walk view. I think its a lovely apt. Its earning me a decent rent and I have received an offer out of the blue without any intention of selling it.

I would be looking at repatriating the funds back to the UK so luckily the exchange rate helps so in essence I walk away with my initial investment and a few years rent. 

Do you guys have any idea what these apts are worth. What should I be selling for and I obviously don't want to throw it away as its earning a rental income. Ideas please ?


----------



## williamX

*compare*



TerryPop said:


> Mortgage in Dubai- AED 2000,000 cost per month 15100 AED (repayment)
> 
> Mortgage in Europe- AED 2000,000 per month 9,600 AED (repayment)
> 
> 
> 
> Just you wait henry higgins just you wait.



Just to compare: 

Mortgage in Dubai- AED 2000,000 cost per month 15100 AED (repayment)

Mortgage in Europe- AED 2000,000 per month 9,600 AED 

Mortgage in Russia AED 2 000 000 per month 31 700 AED


----------



## Mistermark

lazy daisy said:


> Guys I have a 1 bed apt aprox 1200 sqft in Marina Terrace ( Damac ) lower floor and marina walk view. I think its a lovely apt. Its earning me a decent rent and I have received an offer out of the blue without any intention of selling it.
> 
> I would be looking at repatriating the funds back to the UK so luckily the exchange rate helps so in essence I walk away with my initial investment and a few years rent.
> 
> Do you guys have any idea what these apts are worth. What should I be selling for and I obviously don't want to throw it away as its earning a rental income. Ideas please ?


I think reasonably good completed units in mid-range buildings in the Marina sell for about AED 1000/sq ft. The one thing against yours is that it's too big for a 1-bed so I would value it as if it were about 900 sq ft. Which means around AED 900k.

How much have you been offered, out of interest?


----------



## lazy daisy

Mistermark said:


> I think reasonably good completed units in mid-range buildings in the Marina sell for about AED 1000/sq ft. The one thing against yours is that it's too big for a 1-bed so I would value it as if it were about 900 sq ft. Which means around AED 900k.
> 
> How much have you been offered, out of interest?


Talking around 1.150 but im trying for 1.2. However i think the size is an advantage as a 1 bed at 900 ish sq ft is a tight fit. Plus its one of the better buildings in the marina.


----------



## Rafbor

I am looking for advice on a property in DM. I have a property due for completion in last quarter of 2010. I wish to get a mortgage for the final payments. Can anyone tell me what UAE banks will work with non residents.


----------



## True Blue

^^Pretty much NONE! Ask your developers agent what banks have approved the development, that is your first hurdle.


----------



## True Blue

lazy daisy said:


> Talking around 1.150 but im trying for 1.2. However i think the size is an advantage as a 1 bed at 900 ish sq ft is a tight fit. Plus its one of the better buildings in the marina.


That is a decent price for a Damac spec. If your buyer holds out he may be able to pick up an Infinity 1 bed at 900 ish feet for around 1.2M and it is much much better spec and finish than Marina Terrace.

I think what we are seeing here is that the market for low level apartments with direct water views is healthier than people would believe. Most members of this forum think that higher is better but the reality is that around 80% of the public are not comfortable with and 5% are completely shit scared of heights.


----------



## Mistermark

lazy daisy said:


> Talking around 1.150 but im trying for 1.2. However i think the size is an advantage as a 1 bed at 900 ish sq ft is a tight fit. Plus its one of the better buildings in the marina.


I'd bite the buyer's hand off. While I agree that a larger apartment is nicer to live in, with Dubai being a rental market and rents being based on number of bedrooms not sq ft, but service charges depending on sq ft, getting out atAED 100/sq ft on a large one-bed is a good deal in the current market.


----------



## lazy daisy

Thanks for the advice guys. I also agree lower floors with water view are very pleasant & desirable. The beauty with this apt is that you have the main marina view as soon as you enter the front door. Anyway will ponder on it. I always have regrets after I sell anything.


----------



## noir-dresses

Interview with Dubai's ruler, Market Place Middle East, CNN.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2010/06/25/mme.dubai.debt.update.cnn


----------



## Dubai_Steve

daisy, personally I don't think you should sell. I see growth in the future for Dubai and you are getting rent quite easily to cover your costs.


----------



## lazy daisy

Dubai_Steve said:


> daisy, personally I don't think you should sell. I see growth in the future for Dubai and you are getting rent quite easily to cover your costs.


Thats what my view was and to a degree still is. Its just that we have all this hype about the market getting overflooded with apts and rents and prices coming down further. However have they ever had a good thing to say about Dubai ?

My view is that the rents are still attractive in comparison to UK and its tax free even for UK citizens if one can be canny enough.


----------



## Morrismarina

lazy daisy said:


> Thats what my view was and to a degree still is. Its just that we have all this hype about the market getting overflooded with apts and rents and prices coming down further. My view is that the rents are still attractive in comparison to UK and its tax free even for UK citizens if one can be canny enough.


Well keep it then.


----------



## 234sale

lazy daisy said:


> Its just that we have all this hype about the market getting overflooded with apts and rents and prices coming down further.


Hype,, No

Reality,, Yes

Also some of the buildings being completed are stil available direct from the developer. Marina Heights (Damac) for example... 1400AED sqft for a sea view, 1100AED for rear view.


----------



## Imre

*Jumeirah Lakes Towers successfully completes residential cluster *

*• Cluster S with three towers and retail areas complete
• Signifies progress in enhancing JLT’s appeal as popular freehold destination* 











Dubai, June 26, 2010: The 200-hectare Jumeirah Lakes Towers (JLT) free zone administered by the Dubai Multi Commodities Centre Authority (DMCC) reached a significant milestone in its ongoing development with the completion of the S Cluster, one of 26 similar Clusters within JLT, which comprises three residential towers and will eventually support approximately 1,400 residents. Cluster “S” offers residents a premium community environment within the JLT, a mixed-use free zone in Dubai with freehold property options. 

“The JLT development will consist of 87 towers and is well on its way to becoming a vibrant community with the first complete cluster being handed over at Cluster “S”,” said Ahmed bin Sulayem, Executive Chairman of DMCC. “JLT was conceived as a mixed-use development catering to both businesses and residents with the promise of a superior quality of life with its world class infrastructure and living amenities. 
The completion of this first cluster reinforces this objective and signifies the sustained progress made by DMCC as a master developer to make the JLT free zone the most sought after address for residents and businesses alike.”

More info:

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/06/jumeirah-lakes-towers-successfully.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

lazy daisy said:


> Thats what my view was and to a degree still is. Its just that we have all this hype about the market getting overflooded with apts and rents and prices coming down further. However have they ever had a good thing to say about Dubai ?
> 
> My view is that the rents are still attractive in comparison to UK and its tax free even for UK citizens if one can be canny enough.


I am pretty sure price will come down more because of the over supply but if you want to hold for 5 years or more you would probably be very sorry that you sold now at close to the bottom.


----------



## DXBQuantum

234sale said:


> Hype,, No
> 
> Reality,, Yes
> 
> Also some of the buildings being completed are stil available direct from the developer. Marina Heights (Damac) for example... 1400AED sqft for a sea view, 1100AED for rear view.


True.

Make no mistake, there are thousands and thousands of empty units, with plenty more on the way.


----------



## jeetha

Would you buy from Damac after reading here, all bullshit Damac throw at their customers?


----------



## MannyJoe

Homes from Hell TV programme.

Very tame indeed.Great advert for Dubai with many great shots of Burj K,palm,Mall of Emirates Indoor skiing,Burj Al Arab,various villas,etc.However negative shots of large expanse of desert where Dubailand should have been.

Didnt really give a sense of thousands of ripped off investors as focused on just a handful.Those included a couple stupid enough to invest in Sky Dome,so hardly indicative of a typical investor in a typical appartment or villa.Another couple who paid £150.000 for a unit which they were auctioning and so far had raised £150.000 so no money lost there.This couple actually bigged up Dubai(even if it was to get more people to bid on their unit)
The most bizarre and ridiculous section was the british guy they filmed travelling to Dubai to speak to a developer who had actually ripped him off on a project in CYPRUS !! I mean,WTF ! The developer had moved to Dubai AFTER ripping off a load of british investors in Cyprus.So it seems Dubai is responsible for cons that occur abroad also !

Near the end Richeard Dean a reporter for Arabian Business also bigged up Dubai so all in all I figured it will do Dubai far more good than harm.


----------



## jagmp

My cousin and her family moved to Dubai from east Africa seven years ago.They made a small fortune within a short span in property market.Greed took over them.

In 2008 they invested all their money in 12 different projects in the hope they will sell them after couple of installments and make a big fortune.They lost everything.

I just heard they have moved to a very small town in India because they can't afford to go any where else.Starting a new life in a small unknown village in the country they have never lived before.They also spoiled the future of two teenager boys.


----------



## True Blue

MannyJoe said:


> Homes from Hell TV programme.
> 
> Very tame indeed.Great advert for Dubai with many great shots of Burj K,palm,Mall of Emirates Indoor skiing,Burj Al Arab,various villas,etc.However negative shots of large expanse of desert where Dubailand should have been.
> 
> Didnt really give a sense of thousands of ripped off investors as focused on just a handful.Those included a couple stupid enough to invest in Sky Dome,so hardly indicative of a typical investor in a typical appartment or villa.Another couple who paid £150.000 for a unit which they were auctioning and so far had raised £150.000 so no money lost there.This couple actually bigged up Dubai(even if it was to get more people to bid on their unit)
> The most bizarre and ridiculous section was the british guy they filmed travelling to Dubai to speak to a developer who had actually ripped him off on a project in CYPRUS !! I mean,WTF ! The developer had moved to Dubai AFTER ripping off a load of british investors in Cyprus.So it seems Dubai is responsible for cons that occur abroad also !
> 
> Near the end Richeard Dean a reporter for Arabian Business also bigged up Dubai so all in all I figured it will do Dubai far more good than harm.


I also thought the story about the guy who lost his job and fled his debt burden, was also fairly irellevant and outside the scope of the program. Sensationalism at best.


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> Before I watch this Homes from hell program I want to make one point. People who have lost money in Dubai did not invest in Dubai. *They invested in bad companies, run by bad people.* Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and blaming Dubai's lack of regulation for their losses. Why did you invest with an unknown developer based in an unregulated country?


The main problem is that many people invested in government backed companies (Nakheel ,Emaar,Dubai Properties) and they have also lost.

Officially still not because they have a piece of paper (contract or whatever we call it) but practically yes because I doubt that many projects will be ever built. (if yes , maybe just after 10-20 years ..)


----------



## paul66

ITV's Peter Andre - The Next Chapter was a good programme, fantastic PR for Dubai.


----------



## Richard Head

True Blue said:


> Before I watch this Homes from hell program I want to make one point. People who have lost money in Dubai did not invest in Dubai. They invested in bad companies, run by bad people. Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and blaming Dubai's lack of regulation for their losses. Why did you invest with an unknown developer based in an unregulated country?
> 
> I invested money in multiple endowment policies and stocks and shares ISA's and every one is worth less than what I invested. 3 endowments mature next year and are projecting to pay only 60% of the target figures. Money invested over 25 years and won't even get my money back not to mention the effects of inflation on the net present worth. I can't get compensation as the agent was independant who sold pre regulation. Very reputable companies Norwich Union and Scottish Equitable but still money down the drain unless i die before they mature. I don't blame the UK!
> 
> I also have timeshare in Tenerife and guess what, hardly worth the cost of the paper the title is printed on and £600 per week maintenance:lol: Is this the fault of Tenerife or Spainhno:
> 
> I'm pretty sure Dubai is doing what it can to clean up this mess, we already know people have been locked up and they have now announced a rescue package for developments near completion that have run into cashflow problems. Where else in the world would this proactive action happen. Well done Dubai:applause:


Interesting point and very well made TB, hadn't looked at it like this before, but you're absolutely right. Way more people getting their fingers burned in Spain right now, and no more regulation to help them out than there is in Dubai, despite Spain being a much more mature property market (in theory!). I have a similar horror story which I won't bore you all with about a leaseback property a stone's throw from Monaco...........:cheers:


----------



## MannyJoe

True Blue said:


> I also thought the story about the guy who lost his job and fled his debt burden, was also fairly irellevant and outside the scope of the program. Sensationalism at best.


Agreed.Nothing whatsover to do with property investment.Even one or two others shown who had lost money in property I believe would be getting a refund?
All in all I thought the programme did far more good than harm which shows how incompetent the producers are.


----------



## Hopeful

MannyJoe said:


> Agreed.Nothing whatsover to do with property investment.Even one or two others shown who had lost money in property I believe would be getting a refund?
> All in all I thought the programme did far more good than harm which shows how incompetent the producers are.


That's based on your assumption that the producers only wanted to slag off Dubai ......


----------



## jeetha

http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=155336

For those who missed it yesterday


----------



## Goss

Lets make something quite clear here.Anyone who invests £50K in a Skidome apartment in the middle of the desert without checking the site first and seeing that no infrastructure had even been put in place deserves to lose there money.Also why invest £50K in a Marina Apartment where foundations had not even been laid when they could have invested in a nearly built building?


----------



## Mistermark

Goss said:


> Lets make something quite clear here.Anyone who invests £50K in a Skidome apartment in the middle of the desert without checking the site first and seeing that no infrastructure had even been put in place deserves to lose there money.Also why invest £50K in a Marina Apartment where foundations had not even been laid when they could have invested in a nearly built building?


Plenty of people who took previous leaps of faith in Dubai - world's largest man-made marina, gian palm tree made from artificial land, visible from space - saw these grand schemes being completed. The Skidome was to have been part of Dubailand, a project openly promoted by the Sheikh running an oil-rich state that, not being a democracy, was not at risk of a change of policy. 

As for investing in one of Mr Eyoub's off-plan apartments, again, many people bought off-plan in Dubai and saw their units completed. And, of course, the Sheikh did promise that no-one would ever lose money on property in Dubai... hno:.


----------



## HappyLarry

jeetha said:


> http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=155336
> 
> For those who missed it yesterday


What a load of tosh!
Just diversion tactics from misery in blighty.

People have lost a lot more billions in Britian and we the tax payers are footing the frigging bill. At the last count we were £160 billion in the red.

Hohum! hno:


----------



## MannyJoe

Hopeful said:


> That's based on your assumption that the producers only wanted to slag off Dubai ......


The title of the programme pretty much gives that away bro.


----------



## jeetha

*The programme showed*

1.	Stories shown are not the worst. 

2.	There were all old news.

3.	No more new building will ever go up in Dubai, unless the developers cough out full amount. 
(visas or no visas) Not even with government guarantees.

4.	Empty plots will stay empty for at least 20 years.:banana:

5.	(Good News) Sun Sea & Sand will always be part of Dubai:banana:


----------



## Roy Trommelly

True Blue said:


> Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and blaming Dubai's lack of regulation for their losses. Why did you invest with an unknown developer based in an unregulated country?


Maybe because the ruler publicly stated that nobody who invested in property in Dubai would lose money?



> I'm pretty sure Dubai is doing what it can to clean up this mess... Where else in the world would this proactive action happen


Except it's not proactive, is it? Quite the opposite; it's the very definition of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. Proactive action would have prevented, or at least ameliorated, the widespread corruption that has been exposed since the Dubai property market crashed. 

Proper, responsible proactive action would also have ensured that the market didn't become so insanely overheated and hence didn't crash as hard, but greed was in the driving seat and so the last thing anyone wanted to do was sound a note of reality amidst all the Dubai property fantasy. 

And let's not forget, as we were constantly told during the boom years, there would be no crash. Dubai was different. Normal economic laws did not apply. There was no possibility of Dubai property values ever falling (seriously, so many people believed that line and parroted it, it defies belief). As late as September 2008, the head of Emaar was reported in the local media as saying that there was no way that the credit crunch was going to affect Dubai, and in fact he confidently expected property values to rise even further since Dubai would be seen as a "safe haven" for investment while the rest of the world suffered.

Plenty of ordinary people in Dubai parroted that same line - mostly, it had to be said, people who had bought property here and hence had a direct vested interest in people like the head of Emaar saying what they wanted to hear. And then, just a few months later, the mantra had changed from "Dubai will be immune from the credit crunch" to "the whole world is affected, why would you expect Dubai to be immune?" 

No points for style, but several hundred for shamelessness.

As for the programme itself, it largely told the truth. Of course they flammed it up a bit with dramatic music and editing, but there's no denying the facts - a great many people who bought into the carefully-marketed Dubai dream ended up shafted. And anything that tells the truth about Dubai is useful; more people need to be aware that rights for non-Emiratis are virtually non-existent, that if you look past the shiny towers and shopping malls you'll see a justice system that, in many respects, is still operating in the Dark Ages, and where if you're not Emirati or know an Emirati with influence you're at an immediate and serious disadvantage.

I've been living in Dubai for 5 years now and by and large I like it, and it's become a much nicer place to live since the crash.


----------



## biyadoo

*Fees question*

Does anyone know about Oqood (interim real estate register) fees?


Who pays it?
When should it be paid?
How much is the fee?

Thanks in advance for help.


----------



## Jondubai

Hello all  Any latest news on CRW, any new pictures?  Also when is the next RERA update for CRW? I think it should be ready end of Q1 2011, any thoughts that it might be ready earlier?  They have stopped asking for the ogood registration fees, im assuming a lot of us haven't paid for this as yet. :cheers:


----------



## bizzybonita

DIFC rentals stagnant during the last quarter

There has been no rental decline in DIFC (Dubai International Financial Center) during the past three months, which is an indication of the office rental scenario in Dubai, said a recent study report by CBRE.

The DIFC rents declined 11.1percent last year, in contrast to steep decline of 29.2 percent in rentals witnessed in other cities such as Moscow, during the same period.

Ireland, France and Poland also witnessed considerable decline in office rentals during the past year at 30.4percent, 16.7 percent and 17.9 percent respectively.

Meanwhile, with increase in supplies, tenants in Dubai are expecting landlords to offer better incentives. Abu Dhabi too witnessed continued occupier interest during the first quarter this year, and the market seems ready to offer incentives. Moreover, rents dropped during the first quarter due to few poor quality stocks.

The report said that with about 400,000 square meters of new Grade A office space being delivered in 2011, landlords of vacant Grade B buildings are in tenants favour. Following an initially bullish outlook for 2010 from landlords, landlords of vacant Grade B buildings are cutting rents more aggressively to secure tenants before this influx of new buildings.


----------



## bizzybonita

Falling rental values in Dubai lead to high demand for villas

With the declining rental values, villas in Dubai are much in demand from potential tenants now.
The Managing Director at Harbour Real Estate, Mohanad Alwadiya, said that villa rentals seem attractive at the moment. But, with more villas likely to enter the market, rentals are likely to decline, although at a slow pace.

Harbour Real Estate said that an estimated 3500 to 4000 villas are likely to enter Dubai by the year-end. This could lead to 10 percent drop in villa rents. But villas are strong assets for Dubai, and the demands for villas are always likely to be higher than apartments.

The Manager - Residential Sales & Leasing at Better Homes, Kosta Giannopoulos, said that it is difficult to actually quantify by how much villa rentals are likely to decline, but due to rise in supply with the handover of more projects such as the Jumeirah Village, Lavan, Shorooq, The Villa, Cedre Villas etc., the stagnation of demand, there is likely to be constant downward pressure on rents.

In Dubai's Mirdiff area, a four bedroom villa with an area of 3000 square feet is being rented out for about Dh.120,000 per annum. Rentals for a four bedroom in Dubai are Dh.136,000 per annum for a 4,101 square feet space in Dubailand and Dh.150,000 per annum for 5,600 square feet at Umm Suqeim.

With more villa projects entering Dubai, it is likely that prices will continue to decline at a slow pace. For instance, the Mirdiff villas recorded a 15 to 20 percent decline in recent times, mainly due to handover of the Shorooq Villas, Alwadiya said.

Alwadiya said that in Mirdiff, rentals for four bedrooms range between Dh.115,000 per annum and Dh.180,000 per annum, while five bedrooms range between Dh.130,000 per annum and Dh.210,000 per annum. A triple bedroom villa in Mirdiff area with 1590 square feet space currently attracts a rental of Dh.80,000 per annum.

The villa rentals are in the range of Dh.120,000 to Dh.150,000 per annum for a double bedroom villa at Al Warqaa, Dh.140,000 to Dh.180,000 for triple bedroom villa rental and in Springs triple bedroom rentals are in the range of Dh.110,000 per annum to Dh.175,000 per annum.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai to host world's first real estate exchange regional branch

The regional branch of the world's first specialized real estate exchange is all set to be housed in Dubai, and will be operated by the Irex Group of Canada.

The Group yesterday announced plans to launch its first group of exchanges - Irex Europe/MENA and Irex Canada in 2012. The company is seeking authorization to establish an operating branch in Dubai to service issuers and manage listings in the MENA region. It also aims to operate an Irex exchange in London on obtaining approval of the FSA (Financial Services Authority).

The company will create and operate a regulated securities marketplace for listing and trading of real estate assets in major financial centers across the world.
The exchange will list securities of real estate projects that are approved and licensed by government authorities.

Irex Europe/Mena will have its headquarters in London, and branch offices in various EU member states and the MENA region. Irex Canada will be headquartered in Vancouver, British Columbia.

"The development of a real estate exchange took 10 years and at present we are in the process of establishing this exchange on the ground," said Safar Al Harthi, Executive Chairman, Irex Group.

He continued that Dubai is the preferred location for the regional branch in the real estate exchange, given its infrastructure and regulatory framework that supports the launch of the exchange.

Although, no final decision has been taken in this regard, there have been invitations from three GCC states to host the regional exchange. But, Dubai was the first to invite and is the preferred location, and therefore, it is our first priority, he said.

The real estate exchange will be dedicated for trading in asset-backed securities of the real estate sector only, and this will be unique across the world.

The exchange will create a wide variety of financial instruments to securities real estate assets such as RPI units (Real Property Investment Units), Reits (Real Estate Investment Trusts), common shares, trust structures and debt securities.

The developers can access liquidity through securitizing their projects in the exchange. They can overcome their current shortage of liquidity due to financial crisis, and this will help them in continuing their operations, he said.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai property sector records growth in transactions

The real estate market in Dubai has recorded growth in number of transactions, in comparison to the same period last year, the Dubai Land Department report said.

The first five months of the year registered 3,642 land sales, worth a total of Dh.25bn. The sales comprised a total area of 62,815 square feet, the department said.

The website Reidin.com said that there were 4,961 residential sales transactions in 2009. The Land Department figures also revealed that during the first five months of the year, 3750 mortgages were registered worth Dh.32bn.

The Assistant Director-General of the department, Mohammad Sultan Thani said that although the value is lesser, there are several transactions on a daily basis, compared to last year. The sale of residential properties figured 3,169 from January until May this year, with 10 percent or more of these transactions mortgaged. Apartments represented 2,927 of these transactions, of which, about 10percent were mortgaged.

There are more transactions than last year, with the numbers showing a bottoming out of the market, and a flat trend.

Real estate industry experts said that while the transactions may be higher, the prices were not. The average price in 2009 was Dh.870.4 per square foot, while for this year it is Dh.816. According to CEO of reidin.com, Ahmet Kayhan, the prices at present have gone back to the levels of third quarter of 2007, with villas leading those of apartments.

The occupier owners now prefer villas over apartments, and the fact that villas are pulling ahead of apartments is a healthy sign. They are expecting to make money, selling whole buildings, but, are focusing on sale and purchase of affordable smaller apartments.

The residents in Dubai are also taking advantage of the falling rentals, property experts mentioned.

The June leasing guide by Landmark Advisory said that rents had dropped in lower and better quality apartments.

The Director of Research at Landmark Advisory, Jesse Downs, said that tenants are seeking more value for their rental dirham and are able to arrive at alternative options to negotiate attractive deals. This is a trend now, mostly seen in high quality units in prestigious locations.


----------



## bizzybonita

33,000 new homes to enter Dubai residential sector by 2011

The total number of residential units in Dubai is likely to touch 320,000 in number by end of 2011, an increase by 33,000 from the current level. However, prices may not recover completely by that time, said Jones Lang LaSalle in its latest report on the real estate market.

A total of 26,000 units are likely to be ready this year, followed by another 25,000 in 2011, making the total residential stock touch 320,000 by end of 2011, said the leading market research company.

With about 54 percent of the units are likely to be ready in 2010, and about 14,000 units are due for completion by end of second quarter, with the current residential stock in Dubai touching 287,000.

The second quarter of this year, showed an increase in residential property transactions in Dubai by 50 percent, indicating great improvement in market conditions, the report pointed out.

Although the number of residential transactions also grew by 49 percent, there is still a 35percent slump, compared to the previous year, the report said.

But, despite the recent stabilization in pricing levels, the residential market in Dubai will experience a situation of over-supply, with prices unlikely to recover prior to 2011, the report noted.

However, the mortgage sector showed signs of recovery, with more banks injecting liquidity, and the residential sector thereby showing signs of improved lending this year, the report said.

Most residential projects seem back on track, with no major additional delays seen during the second quarter of 2010. The report said that no major delays are foreseen in the residential sector for the rest of the year.


----------



## amplesou

Jondubai said:


> Hello all  Any latest news on CRW, any new pictures?  Also when is the next RERA update for CRW? I think it should be ready end of Q1 2011, any thoughts that it might be ready earlier?  They have stopped asking for the ogood registration fees, im assuming a lot of us haven't paid for this as yet. :cheers:


i,m pestering all i can to get info/ pics but all silent at the moment!

i think dsc has slowed construction on crw i hope i am wrong but yeh they should be certificating 85% ? 
or there abouts, but i don,t think they will be ready for this !

these where to be handed over 2008 end of !

2011 is three years after 2008 completion !
hno:

hopefully we will have news next week ????


----------



## Imre

bizzybonita said:


> *A total of 26,000 units are likely to be ready this year*, followed by another 25,000 in 2011, making the total residential stock touch 320,000 by end of 2011, said the leading market research company.




Where are these 26,000 units? Its almost impossible, Dubai Marina still have some towers U/C but other areas ?

Or they are counting with the never built towers at the Downtown Burj Dubai ,Business Bay,JV, City of Arabia,Dubailand and the extra slow projects like Atlantic ,Wind Towers etc... ?


----------



## 234sale

Roy Trommelly said:


> Maybe because the ruler publicly stated that nobody who invested in property in Dubai would lose money?


What did Gordon say again,, No Boom, No Bust....ith a s

Also knowing local customs, any investor with a piece of paper from the ruler saying they where full protected,, would be..

Bit like having one of those get out of jail free cards in monopoly.


----------



## Akasha

I'm tired of this, it's just causing too much stress and hassle - I want out!


----------



## Dykie

A few more apartments on Better Homes site now being advertised for rent within The Diamond. Search keyword The Diamond

However, still no DEWA connection yet since they now have problems with the electrical specification in the substation that feeds The Diamond - was advised 1st July but still frustrating delays - advised that power is expected to be activated in the near future......but how many times have we heard that.....


----------



## SUR

Just a thought as to where Wind got the money to pour this concrete. Didn't they just ask every investor for a few thousand dirhams citing some spurious Oqood charge. It should allow them to lay one floor at least. Investors, prepare yourselves for further dodgy charges.


----------



## sidxb

Roy Trommelly said:


> Maybe because the ruler publicly stated that nobody who invested in property in Dubai would lose money?


I think from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe ( A to Z ? ) every country leader makes positive comments about there country to boost foreign investment. The eventual responsibility and final decision is always of the investor. If ruler stated that no one who invested in Dubai would lose money did you really believe that per square foot price would continue doubling evey two years indefinitely ? 
If that would have been realistic , I think by 2020 you would need truckload of money to deposit in order to purchase springs villa !

I remember reading comments on arabianbusiness of someone who bought in Dubai Waterfront in a building called 'Zero Five Zero' at 2000 psf in Dec 2007 and real estate agent 'guaranteed' him that builder would increase price to 2500 psf in Mar 2008 . Now do you think its rulers mistake if someone invested in such a building dreaming of unrealistic returns ? . The old fundamentals of demand / supply and high risk / high return always stand true. Leave alone the fundamental principles , these investors did not even investigate the reputation of builder , fact that it was 'offplan' development not registered with RERA at the time , status of master development , unrealistic 'artist renders' of future development and most of all even the innovative building name 'Zero Five Zero' did not put them off ! 

Governments can only put regulations to an extent as too many regulations will also effect the free market and create artificial imbalance in system.


----------



## Roy Trommelly

sidxb said:


> Governments can only put regulations to an extent as too many regulations will also effect the free market and create artificial imbalance in system.


It's a bit rich to talk about "artificial imbalance" as a result of regulation when the almost-entirely-unregulated Dubai property market was about as artificially-imbalanced as it's possible to be - which is why it's fallen so far, so hard and so fast.

But before about September 2008, if you tried to tell people that it was an artificial and unsustainable boom based on speculation driven by the easy availability of cheap money, you got told you were "just jealous at having missed the boat" and various other epithets. The received wisdom was that the Dubai property fantasy was *not* a bubble, it was completely sustainable and would never end, and the government was absolutely complicit in propagating this nonsense. Consequently, a lot of otherwise-intelligent people let greed overrule their basic common sense. 

But I guess that's the nature of asset bubbles throughout history. The people who get sucked in by the hysteria and hyperbole refuse to believe that they are bubbles until they burst.


----------



## ankarajasekar

Imre said:


> *Schön Properties awards AED 82.25 million construction contract to Commodore Contracting LLC*
> 
> *Developer aims to accelerate construction within Zone 2 and 4 of AED 3 billion ‘Dubai Lagoon’ project*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May 09, 2010
> 
> Schön Properties, a leading regional property developer, has announced that it has awarded an AED 82.25 million construction contract to Commodore Contracting LLC, in line with its aims to accelerate construction within Zones 2 and 4 of the AED 3 billion ‘Dubai Lagoon’ project. This new agreement, which will involve all concrete & block works, double basement, superstructure, water proofing and related works for both zones with a combined built up area of 1,412,648 square feet, will pave the way for more streamlined development of the site. Commodore Contracting joins the project’s existing contractors, Bin Sabt Building Contracting Company, which has almost completed the structure of Zone 1 and Belhasa Contracting and Engineering Company (BHECC), who are already on site with an intensified construction program planned for Zone 3.
> 
> With building permits already issued and mobilization of cranes already started for Zone 2, actual construction is expected to start within three weeks and the ground floor will be hit by mid-September, according to the schedule set by the contractor. At present, Commodore Contracting is setting up its offices on site, and is scheduled to commence concrete pouring in Zone 2 by the third week of May, with Zone 4 to follow after a month. Other deadlines set under the contract are the 15-month allocation for the superstructure, block work and water proofing, which will start from date of transfer of building permit, and a 4 to 5-month deadline for the double basement. More than 30 engineers, foremen and executive staff will be working on the project, along with approximately 300 labourers for each of the zones, to ensure the completion by the end of 2012.
> 
> More info:
> 
> http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2010/05/schon-properties-awards-aed-8225.html


We are Project funding Swiss based private trust seeks to fund projects needing capital infusion from $600M to $5B 

G.RAJASEKARAN
INDIA
+919940460078
[email protected]
skype- g.rajasekaran


----------



## dubaiprojects

Imre said:


> Where are these 26,000 units? Its almost impossible, Dubai Marina still have some towers U/C but other areas ?
> 
> Or they are counting with the never built towers at the Downtown Burj Dubai ,Business Bay,JV, City of Arabia,Dubailand and the extra slow projects like Atlantic ,Wind Towers etc... ?


No, in actual fact the objective is to increase the number of threads in sc:lol:


----------



## 234sale

biyadoo said:


> Does anyone know about Oqood (interim real estate register) fees?
> 
> 
> Who pays it?
> When should it be paid?
> How much is the fee?
> 
> Thanks in advance for help.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=58607477

1. The developer should as its a system to protect them.
2. On selling the unit / registering the sale.
3. 295 AED


----------



## gerald.d

Someone needs to redesign that Monopoly board.

Relative prices are way out, some places of course don't exist, and we've got a Metro now


----------



## Pleth

Mistermark said:


> I'm sorry you've lost out. Actually I'm very pleased about the publicity. It's essential that the Dubai government understands it can no longer attract Western capital, having failed to regulate developers, meet the visa obligations of master developers in which it has financial interests or even run a legal system that works. Since UAE is not a democracy, this is the only leverage that can result in the situation changing for the better.


Agreed. 
They could improve RERA a lot, employ more people there and make the place organized! That would help a lot, and maybe people would start to believe in the system again.


----------



## Pleth

Imre said:


> Where are these 26,000 units? Its almost impossible, Dubai Marina still have some towers U/C but other areas ?
> 
> Or they are counting with the never built towers at the Downtown Burj Dubai ,Business Bay,JV, City of Arabia,Dubailand and the extra slow projects like Atlantic ,Wind Towers etc... ?


Imre you should have a look at Shorooq in Mirdif, part 1, see photo 



and part 2, not sure of the name yet.

Part 1 has been released in slow steps since January this year with 2.100 homes. 
In the autumn part 2 will be released which is next to the new Mirdif City Center. I am not sure how many homes there are, but I am guessing at least 5.000 as it is twice the size of part 1.


----------



## MirCat

Does anyone have any news on the Lawns developments? or any idea on how we can get our money back. . .. .


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai: High service fees have been a bone of contention for many owners since buildings have been handed over and chill charges have become a pet hate in many instances.

Property buyer Qausar Khan said buying her one-bedroom unit in Discovery Gardens had been a waste of time due to high maintenance fees and chiller charges.

Khan said at first she had leased the unit for Dh56,000 but now she had moved in herself because the rent would now have been between Dh45,000 and Dh50,000.

Service fees for a one-bedroom (about 1,000 square feet) apartment would have amounted to around Dh14,000 in service fees plus around Dh11,000 in district cooling charges per year in other words half the rental income.

"It is just not worth it. They sold Discovery Gardens as a value-for-money, economical place. But we can't pay the high charges, when the A/C breaks down no one answers the phone to come and repair it.

"Each day that passes I hope prices will rise so I can sell and get out of here."

While Palm District Cooling said in its terms and conditions that a meter had been installed and even specified meter-reading fees, Khan said there were no meters.

"We're paying a yearly fee for what?" Khan said.

"We have no meters so there is no one reading the consumption. Rents have dropped by Dh6,000 in the last three months and not because of the market alone but the as good as non-existent facility management and cooling fees are issues here."

It is a similar story across town in Business Bay. One resident, who owns a studio in Executive Towers, said many in her building were refusing to pay chill charges.

Empower's chill bills specified unit charges per meter, but after connection a quarterly demand charge calculated on the A/C load provided to the unit was billed in advance and meter maintenance was Dh50 — also quarterly.

Owners would not get the keys to their apartment unless they paid the Dh2,000 district cooling connection fee and the same amount again as a security deposit.

Resident Paz Palazon said: "Why should we pay? There already is a flat fee, even if the apartment is empty of Dh600 quarterly, allegedly based on the size of the unit".

"But my neighbour is paying more than me when his apartment is smaller."

On signing up with Empower, Palazon said she specified she would not pay unless shown the meter.

"They told me I have an individual meter but it is difficult to get to. So how are they reading it?" she questioned.

Cooling plants allegedly can electronically monitor the amount of water going into every apartment via an index showing up at the plant itself, Gulf News has been told.

Salwan's service fees are Dh15.32 per square foot, meaning that Palazon is paying around Dh20,000 in service fees and chill charges a year.

Both district cooling companies could not be contacted by press time.

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...ing-bills-are-leaving-investors-cold-1.650203


----------



## bizzybonita

The obligations of banking and service charges in the elements of pressure on landlords and companies
*«Burning prices» Dubai rents paid to further decline*










Real estate, said that Dubai's property market is witnessing a fierce competition between real estate companies and owners, in what is called the phenomenon of «burning rents», which leads to a further reduction in rent levels in the emirate.

The group of them polled «Emirates Today» opinions that rental prices will fall further with the increase in the number of housing units vacant in the emirate after the handover of new projects. Expectation that is thrown about 50 thousand new housing units in Dubai by the end of 2011.

They stressed that rents fall during the summer period due to declining demand for housing, noting that the owners are forced to rent their property at any price possible with the increased expenses for service and maintenance paid by the owner of the commercial developers, as well as pressure the banks have to pay the cash payments to the value of real estate unit.

They pointed out that the equation of natural interest on the property, which determines the profit rate of 10% of the value of real estate investment as a consequence of the lease ended, with an estimated yield is currently about 4%, which is below the levels of interest rates on deposits in banks.

There was no response from the Real Estate Regulatory Agency in Dubai «Riera», on the monitoring of this phenomenon in the market.
*
Stability*

Director-General said in the company «Trust Hoarezn» Real Estate Broker in Dubai, Rustam Rahman, the «market is currently undergoing stability Despite lower prices by 40% since the beginning of the year», pointing out that «there is the burning rate by some owners to attract more A number of tenants, which will lead to further cuts in prices during the second half of the year ». The «image will appear more clearly with the end of the summer, as can be judged strictly on the performance of the market», expecting rents to fall by up to 25% through the end of this year, with increased supply of residential units ». He said «*the apartment of two rooms which had leased about 120 thousand dirhams in Dubai declined to 80 thousand, then to about 60 thousand, and will reach 50 thousand by the end of the year or less*» and continued «This is the market supply and demand are the main controller ».

*Vacant units*

And detailed, "said General Manager of« Harbor Real Estate », Muhannad al-Wadi`, that «with different estimates, there is a consensus that about 20% of residential units in Dubai are vacant, as a third of commercial office space vacant», pointing out that «while This may be a source of concern, the presentation of residential units and office space will continue during the next two years, at least ».

He added that «*with the increase in the number of vacant units, forced owners to reduce prices to lower levels, to attract tenants in a kind of monopoly*», and went on «There are thousands of property owners in Dubai, is difficult to determine their behavior towards tenants, many of them seek to meet its liabilities financial issues associated with the property he owns ».

He «*rents fall during the summer period due to declining demand for housing, which is putting more pressure on prices*».

He also revealed that «intermediaries and property owners are currently facing the problem of non-approval of tenants of offices of potential buildings, common property, especially those located in areas that are vital», expected to get worse with the introduction of more space, common property in areas that are vital in the market.

« the drop in the contracts office rents over the past year amounted to about 50%, and now many of the tenants, the former seeking to move », and followed the« companies are seeking to reduce operating costs and improve the company's website, but vacancies in the buildings of private property in the desired areas are relatively few, particularly for some large enterprises that need to be several floors ».

He explained that «the most important areas the least expensive is (Discovery Gardens), and (in Dubai Silicon Oasis), and (International City), and (Motor City), and (Skycourts), which will be delivered in the third quarter of this year», and continued « is expected to stabilize rents in those areas a quick and positive, as these projects are well positioned and has a large segment of middle-income tenants ».

*Competition for tenants*

He pointed out that Wadi `« will be created pressure on the rental income because of the huge number of units that will hit the market this year, who will pay the investors and real estate brokers to compete for tenants to achieve the greatest possible revenue ».

And that «it is not easy to deal with excess supply in the real estate sector, the problem is the result of projects took a long time to be completed, did not show effects on the market only after years of the emergence of the problem of excess supply».

Abizaid and «is the population density in Dubai from the most important issues that must be addressed, it is the solution to achieve a vibrant economy and active», adding that «growth depends on population density in Dubai on the success of economic growth strategies in the sectors of business, trade and tourism».

He pointed out that «some believe that the recovery of the real estate sector will lead to an economic boom in Dubai, but the truth is the contrary, the growth of Dubai's economy will lead to the advancement of the real estate sector once again, which is what we need at the moment».

*2004 levels*

For his part, said Chief Executive Officer of «MAG Real Estate Development», Mohammed Nimer, the «rents in Dubai has now reached levels in 2004 and are currently undergoing a period of volatility as a result of reduced staffing rates in response to pressure banks and companies to pay their financial obligations».

He stressed that the «owners are forced to rent their property at any price possible with the increased expenses for service and maintenance paid by the owner of the commercial developers, as well as banks pressure them to pay the cash payments to the value of real estate unit».

And that «natural equation of interest on the property, which determines the profit rate of 10% of the value of real estate investment as a consequence of the lease ended, with an estimated yield is currently about 4%, the lowest levels of interest rates on deposits in banks».

He pointed out that «the pressure banks paid the real estate rental companies succumb to price levels requested by the tenants», pointing out that «the spread of monopoly in the market prices paid rents to decline further during the second quarter of this year».

He explained that «property owners now rent their units rather than for obtaining profit, but shift their aim to dismiss the level of loss», and went on «I think that the level of rents reached the bottom now, but there will be some fluctuations due to the increase the number of vacant units in the market».

The tiger that «weak banking finance sector-oriented real estate compounded by the affected property is negative, Valtoger the purpose of ownership is a good way to stimulate the market, but confronted with the reluctance of banks to finance the real estate sector», pointing out that «if the one of the banks funding to purchase the property, the rate of high interest is not commensurate with the market, as the appropriate rate is 6%, but is not available ».

*Sea areas*

The Director General said in the company «the progress of the Real Estate», Salah Ali, «the phenomenon of monopoly among owners of residential units exist, but it shows clearly in the residential locations away from the sea, such as the Al Barsha and Mirdiff, and the International City, and other areas of Dubai, but less units in housing projects near the sea ».

He added that «*rental prices have fallen by about 25% during the first half of this year, and I expect to see further decline by about 30% until March of next year*».hno:

He stressed that «There is optimism in the progress payment of the debts of Dubai World, and improve the economic situation, as the government seeks to stimulate the economy in various ways».

He said «I think that Dubai would need to expand in the industrial sector and attract large and medium industries, which will provide a large number of functions, which will increase the demand for housing in the emirate».

He said that «any improvement in the economic sector was significantly associated with improvement in real estate, real estate sector is significantly influenced by the resurgence of other sectors».

He stressed that «you can not put prices judgmental, or a lower level of rents in the UAE, they are entirely subordinate to the law of supply and demand», and went on «I think that a rent will change completely after two years, there are huge projects in Dubai will attract thousands of expatriates who will need housing », pointing out that« when running the upcoming Al Maktoum in full, the image will vary, and there are tower-Khalifa, and other large projects that make a difference ».

http://www.emaratalyoum.com/business/local/2010-07-06-1.263197


----------



## noir-dresses

I think Dubai's developer's take it, or leave it approach toward's customer's in the hay day's is dead forever.


----------



## agod

jeetha said:


> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/c...on-for-defrauding-property-investors-1.651729



More than the great train robbers...........I am not sure a local would have got 40 years, in fact they are not.

A.


----------



## agod

MannyJoe said:


> http://www.exclusiveuae.com
> English run.


Yes agreed, excellent company, especially Louise.

A.


----------



## robertacg

What do I need to register myself as owner, once I paid the final instalment ?

Anyone know roughly what the fee I need to pay to the DEWA people for connection on a 820ft apartment ?
Ditto for Empower ?

I much appreciate the kindness in replying as I m totally clueless about the amounts and am trying to budget.


----------



## noir-dresses

I'm very sure that most of the investor's are way ahead in they're payment's compared to the developer's construction progress if you look at the percentage's.

Soooooooo any talk of investor's being cancelled is a pipe dream, just won't happen. Not even RERA is that disfunctional to let that happen.

I'm also very sure the investor's could financially match a fast finish to the building which is obviously not happening, meaning the developer is 100 percent at fault.

Now let's see why the developer is at fault, and choose the logical answer's.

1 - This project is way beyond his capability's as a developer ?

2 - They are gready, it's all about the money, screw the investor ?

3 - This project is just a front for the developer, doesn't care ?

4 - Company is going bust ?

5 - No political backing any more ?

6 - They are simply retarded ?

7 - Investor's who fall for they're trick's.

It would be great to have this thread back on track with construction topic's, and lot's of photo's, but that hasn't happened in a long time. Investor's, and building's go hand, on hand. Ripped off investor's mean's no building's.

The developer, and his clan of under educated, totaliterian wing men have been manipulating this thread for year's rite under our nose's which is the saddest part of all. hno:


----------



## glover

*Is Select Group Involved in this Scam Case! They list Royal Oceanic & Yacht Bay as theirs on their website!!*

*Dubai Marina towers bought in scam to be sold*

Sean Cronin
July 08. 2010 
The National

Two towers in Dubai Marina that were bought with the proceeds of an immense UK tax scam are to be sold after one of the largest asset confiscation orders ever handed down by British authorities.

Two members of a 21-strong criminal gang have been ordered to repay a record £92.3 million (Dh514.9m) after splashing out on luxury homes in London, high-performance cars and designer clothes for their families.

But their biggest purchases involved two Dubai Marina apartment blocks – the Royal Oceanic and Yacht Bay – valued at £80m.

Now both buildings must be sold if the pair are to avoid a further 10 years in prison.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100708/BUSINESS/707089924/1005


----------



## Mistermark

The story has to be flawed, in that the two fraudsters clearly don't own the entirety of both buildings. It may be that they own a large number of apartments within the two buildings, which may well be repossessed and sold, but not the entire projects.



glover said:


> *Dubai Marina towers bought in scam to be sold*
> 
> Sean Cronin
> July 08. 2010
> The National
> 
> Two towers in Dubai Marina that were bought with the proceeds of an immense UK tax scam are to be sold after one of the largest asset confiscation orders ever handed down by British authorities.
> 
> Two members of a 21-strong criminal gang have been ordered to repay a record £92.3 million (Dh514.9m) after splashing out on luxury homes in London, high-performance cars and designer clothes for their families.
> 
> But their biggest purchases involved two Dubai Marina apartment blocks – the Royal Oceanic and Yacht Bay – valued at £80m.
> 
> Now both buildings must be sold if the pair are to avoid a further 10 years in prison.
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100708/BUSINESS/707089924/1005


----------



## Waiting_Forever

*CT4*

I visited CT4 last week. They have completed 2 basements and work has stopped completely. There are no signs of workers, equipment or any work to be done soon there. When I asked Memon, they said that they are waiting to resolve some issues with the architect and master developer regarding extra roof space. There was work going on in CT3 though. 

I believe Memon are crooks. They make up things as they go and try to squeeze the last penny from every investor. If I had a choice I would have got out of this mess and would have not dealt with these crooks. Unfortunately they have my money with them.


----------



## Property Queen

Thank you for your interesting comments. I agree that it would be a shame to close the thread as there are some pieces of useful information and decent comments.

However, closing the thread for a couple of weeks will give the mod time to tidy things up and delete the vast amount of spam. There is more picture and BAD spam than there is BP oil in the Gulf of Mexico.

By banning BAD we will not get reproduction of the WSP spam with dancing bananas...the mentality of a 9 year old. Moreover, we will get a better standard of input. 

Finally, the mod did say that if there was a lot of investment talk the forum would be closed. The mod should make the threat a promise. This is a skyscraper forum not an investors one. Therefore, in conclusion a locking of the forum and a ban is in everybody interest. Surely you agree?


----------



## 234sale

closed...

All infringements will be deleted

Final Warning to anyone that breaks the rules




Open..

1stly WSP and Bad are related, but not completely certain they were the same person.

2ndly SSC is a community, Bad only was using this section, he rarely posted anything positive. Seeing has the developer has representation on here, we don't need 2 accounts, so Bads account may be terminated. 

3rdly This is an open forum; please use your own forum / facebook page to discuss issues you have with specific persons.


----------



## rags

*in Dubai for 24 hrs*

I am in Dubai on 18th evening. Is there any good flat to stay in the Marina for a night? Or, any PG acco in the Marina that anyone may know? I intend taking the Metro from the airport, just to savour the journey and sights. I am out 19th night. Hoping to see Silverene early 19th morning. Any Silverenite there for a drink on late 18th night?

Cheers.


----------



## FARIBA

Wishing you a pleasant day from Memon!



Please refer to the email below & as mentioned, in order to proceed with the change of payment plan to link to construction there shall be a standard deduction of AED 50,333 till date & the change of payment plan charge of AED 5,000 shall be waived off 

Has anyone else reccieved the same email from memon for changing their payment plan? if so is REARA aware of this ? i'm speechless by this onehno:


----------



## Spurs

Anyone spoken to Aristocrat recently? Or been to the site?

At what point do they admit this is not going to happen?


----------



## Bad

234sale said:


> closed...
> 
> All infringements will be deleted
> 
> Final Warning to anyone that breaks the rules
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open..
> 
> 1stly WSP and Bad are related, but not completely certain they were the same person.
> 
> 2ndly SSC is a community, Bad only was using this section, he rarely posted anything positive. Seeing has the developer has representation on here, we don't need 2 accounts, so Bads account may be terminated.
> 
> 3rdly This is an open forum; please use your own forum / facebook page to discuss issues you have with specific persons.


 i am not related !!!!! i am an investor !!!!!!!!! i know that you dont like me since that i proved that you have sent the wrong informations about investments issues .... i have only one account and i dont work for wind ... 
if you want to terminate you have to terminate everyone .. 
my interest is to built but they interest is to destroy because they have sold their units or they did not paid so they never wants to this towers get built ... 
i did not see one positive post since i came and you are telling me that i am not positive ???!!!!!!! if i am not then who is ??? 
skyscraper dont have to play with our money in here every one should talk about construction and i am ready for that .... in 30 days if things not changed you will see that i am working for wind or not .. i am positive now but not for always .. they told me in 30 days every thing will be normal and i am ok with that ...


----------



## maltster

Bad said:


> i am not related !!!!! i am an investor !!!!!!!!! i know that you dont like me since that i proved that you have sent the wrong informations about investments issues .... i have only one account and i dont work for wind ...
> if you want to terminate you have to terminate everyone ..
> my interest is to built but they interest is to destroy because they have sold their units or they did not paid so they never wants to this towers get built ...
> i did not see one positive post since i came and you are telling me that i am not positive ???!!!!!!! if i am not then who is ???
> skyscraper dont have to play with our money in here every one should talk about construction and i am ready for that .... in 30 days if things not changed you will see that i am working for wind or not .. i am positive now but not for always .. they told me in 30 days every thing will be normal and i am ok with that ...


hno: you've been found out, now drop it!


----------



## Bad

maltster said:


> hno: you've been found out, now drop it!


ld:..... how ? because i am not the same as you are ? if someone dont like your comments then he should be wind employee ?? hno:
i dont care about what you think .. :wave:


----------



## TMZ

bad you are an idiot, nothing more nothing less, we all know that you a fool so just go away , no one wants to hear you or see your shitty comments,


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*Dubai builders start to regain some momentum*

Hadeel al Sayegh

July 11. 2010 

Construction companies are expected to start regaining some momentum with second-quarter earnings now that Dubai World’s debt issues are mostly resolved, analysts say.

Overall, Nomura expects a 12 per cent decline in earnings for the sector compared with the second quarter of last year, largely because Dubai World’s issues slowed the amount of work available.

Late last month, Nakheel said it had reached an agreement with 75 per cent of its trade creditors and would settle just over $US1 billion (Dh3.67bn) of claims within two weeks.

Arabtec Holding said last week it had received its first cash payment but did not reveal how much.

A consensus of three analysts, from Nomura, Shuaa Capital and UBS, predicted a net profit of Dh146 million for Arabtec in the second quarter.

“The first quarter of the year was marred by a UAE construction-wide slowdown between the two Dubai World announcements,” said Chet Riley, an analyst with Nomura. “We expect (the second quarter) to witness an improvement in construction activity.”

Saud Masud of UBS cut his target share price for the contractor to Dh1.70 from Dh2.10 last week, as he saw Arabtec’s opportunities in Saudi Arabia to be less attractive than initially perceived.

Analysts expect Drake & Scull International (DSI), based in Dubai, to post improved numbers over the past quarter, but with a lower net profit against the same period last year.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100711/BUSINESS/707119928/1005/business


----------



## Property Queen

I would like to thank the moderator for trying to maintain standards. We are on page 130 and feel that so many of them are of useless posed pictures and people calling one another names.

Let the developer try and get this project going again in the next month then we can comment and say something constructive based on reality. I am not hopeful but who knows. But please, no more photos of workers posing next to machines for a month.

This skyscrapercity nor wind investors debating club.


----------



## maildubai101

Just saw this news...its about some real estate recovery scheme. 
http://www.eyeofdubai.com/v1/news/newsdetail-45947.htm

quoted from this news "Once an application for RERS is approved by Smith & Ken, the company invites the investor to choose a new property, and once it is done, Smith & Ken deducts the amount the investor has already paid from their new apartment, office space or plot of land."

might be worth checking out :bowtie:


----------



## shagdash

Springs 2 bed + study advertised at 720,000 dhms.

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...lahouse/2010/6/5/dubai-the-springs-springs-9/

Finally the market is close to bottoming out. Hope this brings in the demand. But don't know from where?


----------



## amplesou

adg


----------



## dubaiprojects

Imre said:


> already 20K
> 
> many studios on the market, IC , DSO etc..
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...s__lte=&bathrooms__gte=&bathrooms__lte=&ss=--
> 
> also here for 23K
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/business/property/al-khail-gate-offers-affordable-option-1.653088


That means 90% of the rent must be going for maint charges right?
Better than nothing i guess


----------



## amplesou

Ali_Syed said:


> CRW's first three buildings are in construction. the structure is all complete, the finishing work and internal work is going on. Yes, its slow, very slow, but that is because the whole world has slowed down!
> 
> By next year when CRW is handed over, i know the DSC wont be in its finished state, and the property will not be of the same value as we bought, but that is a problem only for those who bought for quick profit making, flippers etc. for those who just want to live there and not sell, it makes no difference what the property is worth when its handed over.


hi ali!
i think my apartment was worth 280 k £ at peak now whats it worth probally 160 to 180 maybe !
anyway is does not matter as its not for sale ever :cheers:

investment talk i might get a ban :lol:


----------



## jjason1964

maildubai101 said:


> Just saw this news...its about some real estate recovery scheme.
> http://www.eyeofdubai.com/v1/news/newsdetail-45947.htm
> 
> quoted from this news "Once an application for RERS is approved by Smith & Ken, the company invites the investor to choose a new property, and once it is done, Smith & Ken deducts the amount the investor has already paid from their new apartment, office space or plot of land."
> 
> might be worth checking out :bowtie:


I spoke to Smith and Ken today and this RERS scheme is exactly what they say it is, allows you to consolidate into a new RERA approved projects.............there is hope !


----------



## jjason1964

jjason1964 said:


> I spoke to Smith and Ken today and this RERS scheme is exactly what they say it is, allows you to consolidate into a new RERA approved projects.............there is hope !


Sorry, forgot to paste the link............

http://www.smithandken.com/dubai-real-estate-recovery-scheme


----------



## agod

The Strata law is now a reality, so in the next couple of years, the HOA's will take control from the developers, and the HOA fees will be more realistic, and set by the Owners, it is happening now, and these ripp off's are going to be a thing of the past.

A.


----------



## aflatforme

Iam also invested in 1b/r room flat and i wish to join as well. Please arrange.


----------



## Porcello

dubaiprojects said:


> That means 90% of the rent must be going for maint charges right?
> Better than nothing i guess


No, it only means that the owners are not paying maintenance charges.


----------



## bizzybonita

TerryPop said:


> Bizzy you can;t mean no growth for five years??? surely???


I heard by Tuesday patrol will increase by 20 fils . Frankly, I expect five years to pay off the debt with increases in fees on the part of any living person in Dubai .


----------



## pisandre

Well Unknown,

I think people don't want to admit the bitter reality that they lost their money. Developers are just buying time. They know that eventually lots of investors will forget about their money and move on... Sure, there will be a few crazy ones that will spend their last dirhams to hire lawyers. Good luck to them :-D

I found something interesting yesterday on the website of the RERA (http://www.rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/home/projects.do?lang=0). It seems that the community is not called anymore DSC but "AL HEBIAH FOURTH". I think it gives a good idea of where we are all heading to: A unknown community in the middle of the desert without sport facilities.....


----------



## 234sale

Supply should now end by 2012, this takes into account delayed developments.

So expect downward pressure for the next 2 years.

I posted before this before

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764&page=1149


234sale said:


> Here's my rent history
> 
> 1000sqft + 600sqft Garden
> 1 Bed, Study, Garden.
> Oldtown Manzil Side
> 
> I personally know the landlord, he cost including service charge, chiller fees and mortgage is 120K
> 
> So this is what I have paid for my apartment.
> June 2007 125K
> June 2008 140K
> June 2009 110K
> June 2010 90K*
> 
> * He is willing to accept this now, the contract ends in 4 months.


So I expect that it could be as low as 75 next June... 2011 and as low as 65K in 2012.. 

Rent has been reducing at around 20% a year.. for me..


----------



## Bin Habib

yes, What about the delay charges that they said to me? actually few months ago I didn't pay for them, then they start saing that if you will not pay you will be charge. Now they said you should pay all delay charges!! What shall I do ????!!!!


----------



## pisandre

unknownpleasures said:


> I mean how was it possible for developers to get away with this and the govt of Dubai to standby and let it?


That's the key thing. Dubai gov is creating rubbish laws and projects (Tayseer being the last one). But actually, they don't give a damn about the investors. I hope that people eventually understand that.



> Do you know what AL HEBIAH FOURTH means?


I guess it means: "Thanks for your money, we will do business with you again!"


----------



## bizzybonita

*RENT PRICES *

*JLT *
STUDIO = 35K
1 BED = 50K
2 BED = 65K
3 BED = 80K

*DUBAI MARINA *
STUDIO = 40K
1 BED = 60K
2 BED = 85K
3 BED = 120K

*DISCOVERY GARDEN *
STUDIO = 30K
1 BED = 50 K


----------



## bizzybonita

234sale said:


> Supply should now end by 2012, this takes into account delayed developments.
> 
> *So expect downward pressure for the next 2 years*.
> 
> I posted before this before
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764&page=1149
> 
> 
> So I expect that it could be as low as 75 next June... 2011 and as low as 65K in 2012..
> 
> Rent has been reducing at around 20% a year.. for me..


I Grantee till 2015-16 the end of supply , putting in mind not only in Dubai every emirates will have oversupply . so , forget about rent prices these days will be a history for tomorrow !hno:


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai house prices stable in Q2, rents decline further

The price of apartments, villas and commercial properties remained stable in Dubai in the second quarter of this year, compared to the previous three months, Asteco said on Wednesday.

Its Q2 2010 Report saw no change in the selling price of apartments and offices, with flats in Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC) and on Palm Jumeirah still commanding the highest prices.

However, oversupply drove continued declines in the rental markets with average apartment rents down by 8 percent in Q1 compared to the previous quarter and villa rents down by 4 percent.

Palm Jumeirah villas remained the most expensive at AED1,800 per sq ft, with the Green Community at the opposite end of the scale with villas selling for AED700 per square foot. See the Arabian Think Tank's latest views on Palm Jumeirah prices.

Elaine Jones, CEO, Asteco Property Management, said: “The market is, however, at a stage where pricing can vary from unit to unit in any particular property. We have noticed some overseas clients, who bought property on Palm Jumeirah, are prepared to sell at a much lower price per square foot as the exchange rate is more favourable without them incurring any discount."

Villa prices remained on a par with the first quarter of 2010 in all areas except The Meadows and The Springs, where prices declined 5 and 6 percent respectively due to large supply of properties, the report added.

Asteco's report also said apartment rents declined an average of 8 percent compared to the first quarter of 2010.

Jones said: “Although relocation trends from Abu Dhabi and Northern Emirates have slowed due to price correction in those markets, internal movement in Dubai is at its peak with tenants looking for upgrades in terms of quality, size or location.

"But there is an exceptionally broad range of prices, depending on the motivation of the landlord. As a consequence the rental market, especially for apartments, is very active.”

Villas fared better with rental reductions of just 4 percent on average across Dubai despite also seeing an increase in supply. Villas in Jumeirah proved the most resistant, seeing falls of just 1 percent thanks to its established community, the report said.

The Dubai Q2 2010 Report found that office rents still showed a downward trend while sales activity was stable with no price adjustments. Jumeirah Lake Towers outshone all other areas with the development accounting for half of all transactions. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/592700-dubai-house-prices-stable-in-q2-rents-decline-further


----------



## DubaiDreamz

catherinez said:


> Not sure if you have invested in this project. The guys have over delayed handing over. They are sweet and nice each time we visit their office but when asked about construction progress, every request falls on to deaf ears:bash:


Hi, yes i have a unit here but currently I have no wish to take any action, especially as construction is rapidly progressing and they have a year to complete according to my contract so just don't think action will get me anywhere - However I would happily take my money back if they gave me the option !!

Good luck, I hope you manage to get the result you are after


----------



## 234sale

The reason for the so called stability, is because people are stuck with mortgages.

You can't sell, so you have to rent.

Today anyone who bought after 2007, is probably making a loss.. Soon it will be 2006..

Business Bay is already starting at 700 AED for ET, so if you took the 20/80 deal at 1000 AED sqft, you have to find money to close your mortgage unless your lucky to sell at 800 AED sqft.

It is an awful situation, which isn't going to get better.


----------



## Porcello

234sale said:


> The reason for the so called stability, is because people are stuck with mortgages.
> 
> You can't sell, so you have to rent.
> 
> Today anyone who bought after 2007, is probably making a loss.. Soon it will be 2006..
> 
> Business Bay is already starting at 700 AED for ET, so if you took the 20/80 deal at 1000 AED sqft, you have to find money to close your mortgage unless your lucky to sell at 800 AED sqft.
> 
> It is an awful situation, which isn't going to get better.


due to that, banks should reduce their interest rates, otherwise the percentage of defaults will rise.


----------



## 234sale

Porcello said:


> due to that, banks should reduce their interest rates, otherwise the percentage of defaults will rise.


Agreed,, but they won't

Also the bigger issue is, they don't have money to lend.

Say 5000 mortgages are required at 1,000,000 AED each per month due to the supply increasing.

Where is this 5B AED a month going to come from, especially with exchange rates so low to other currencies.


----------



## Imre

noir-dresses said:


> What is a sinking fund, that is a new one for me ?


I got by email, same happened with 2 floors there,and the building is just 4 years old...

Just imagine the repair cost of this quality job:


----------



## Mistermark

noir-dresses said:


> Isn't that already included in the service fee's ? There should alway's be extra fund's in the end incase of an emergency repair.
> 
> My condo in Toronto has an extra 450,000 CAD reserve at all times. We invest the extra fund's in stock's, and bonds. At the last owner's meeting about a month ago they said we made an extra 4-5 percent on that to increase our reserve's in these hard times, every body clapped, and the board member in charge of finance got re elected.
> 
> What I can't under stand is why my 1400 two bed sq/ft condo in JLT is almost the same service charge, including chilling, as my 1800 sq/ft three bed in TO. When you break down the number's, more, or less every thing in Toronto is more expensive, not to mention the landscaping is more lush, and harder to maintain, and in winter you have to clear the snow. How is that possible. The interior fitting's, and facilities of our building in JLT are cheap, and in Toronto it's all top of the line, explain that.


IMHO this is because Canada is an advanced democracy, well regulated and with good courts. Most condos are managed by residents, and if management companies scammed residents they'd be removed, and the culprits could be sued or even face jail.

Dubai, in contrast, is showing that it has a way to go yet...


----------



## bucobor

bizzybonita said:


> *Maintenance-fees list :*
> 
> *Time Place Tower (Dubai Marina)* = Dhs 13.- sq/ft/year incl.chiller-fee
> *
> Panoramic Tower (Dubai marina)* = AED 17/sqf -including chiller
> 
> *DEC Tower (Dubai Marina)* = AED13.04 / sq.ft including chiller * - include Aed 1.6 sinking fund*
> 
> *MARINA Wharf I (Dubai Marina )* = AED10 /sq.ft without chiller
> 
> More info please for other investors


hello


----------



## noir-dresses

I forgot to mention, my service fee's in Toronto are paid monthly, I just give 12 cheques in advance, and they deduct it from my account every month. In JLT they want a year's worth of service fee's in advance, and PDC also want's they're capacity charge in advance. Since most utility bill's like DEWA, PDC come monthy, and management salary's are paid monthly, why are they charging me a year in advance for some thing I didn't even use yet ?

I also forgot to mention I pay just over 6000 CAD in property tax yearly, in 
Dubai there is no PT, so that's a big plus for Dubai.


----------



## Porcello

noir-dresses said:


> I forgot to mention, my service fee's in Toronto are paid monthly, I just give 12 cheques in advance, and they deduct it from my account every month. In JLT they want a year's worth of service fee's in advance, and PDC also want's they're capacity charge in advance. Since most utility bill's like DEWA, PDC come monthy, and management salary's are paid monthly, why are they charging me a year in advance for some thing I didn't even use yet ?
> 
> I also forgot to mention I pay just over 6000 CAD in property tax yearly, in
> Dubai there is no PT, so that's a big plus for Dubai.


maintenance fee is paid quarterly in my tower, and we are considering monthly payments for next year. PDC capacity for common areas is also charged on a monthly basis everywhere in JLT; if your developer says otherwise then he's lying.


----------



## noir-dresses

Porcello said:


> maintenance fee is paid quarterly in my tower, and we are considering monthly payments for next year. PDC capacity for common areas is also charged on a monthly basis everywhere in JLT; if your developer says otherwise then he's lying.


The PDC capacity charge I'm talking about is for the apartment, not the common area of the building.


----------



## bizzybonita

*Maintenance-fees list :*

*M Q's* = AED 19.87 / sq.ft including chiller

*P I *= AED 18.57 / sq.ft including chiller

*Marina Mall Hotel* = AED 38.95 / sq.ft including chiller

*The Point* = AED 12 maintenance + 2 Dhs sinking fund + 3 dhs chiller = 17 

*Time Place Tower (Dubai Marina)* = Dhs 13 sq/ft/year incl.chiller-fee

*Panoramic Tower (Dubai marina)* = AED 17/sqf -including chiller

*DEC Tower (Dubai Marina)* = AED14.64 / sq.ft including chiller

*MARINA Wharf I (Dubai Marina )* = AED10 /sq.ft without chiller

*Goldcrest Views (JLT)*= 12.5 AED/sqft -without chiller

*Goldcrest Views 2 (JLT)* = 12 AED/sqft -without chiller

*Zumurud Tower (Dubai Marina)* = 11 AED/sqft -including chiller

*Marina Diamond 5 (Dubai Marina)* = 14 dhs/sq ft including chiller


----------



## agod

Marinascape.............14 inc chiller.

On the Strata law......

We have elected a board, and signed up with RERA's blessing, formed an Interim association, had meetings with the developer, and they have been helpful, and handed over all the documents we have asked for, we have also interviewed a FM company, and are on the way to running are own affairs............its laziness, or lethargy on the part of owners if they do not take this opportunity staring them in the face.

A.


----------



## i love dubai

I recieved a letter from Diamond Investment to attend a meeting in august 2nd to attend owner association meeting, we have to elect members of the board. I do not live in Dubai so I have to email nomination form. The problem is that I don't know a single person to nominate and I cannot nominate my self because I am not a resident. Can anyone suggest a soluton? I googled owner association for MD5 and MD6 and did not get any information.


----------



## Porcello

noir-dresses said:


> The PDC capacity charge I'm talking about is for the apartment, not the common area of the building.


also in this case PDC capacity is paid on a monthly basis.


----------



## methodinmadness

*Smith & Ken*

Ref. Smith & Ken...if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is!

Fact: Royal Estates will in no way be able to complete the project by Nov 2011...the cut off date.

They will ask you to swop your investment over to a town house because this is the only part of the project that has commercial viability. I am sure they will come up with seemingly attractive offers... my advice..stay well away.

Fact: RERA has had all ongoing projects independently benchmarked. This is a clever way of RERA putting a noose around developers necks. Royal Estates is 'ongoing but delayed'. The noose is tight and will only get tighter.

My main concern is with the banks.. they have our money. Imagine if the banks have to pay back all the deposits? Our deposits are their cash flow!


----------



## Pleth

Imre: Which building was this?

I wish we could make a thread with maintenance charges? But apparently not.


----------



## Imre

Pleth said:


> Imre: Which building was this?


Marina Diamond 2


----------



## montranieri

*owner association*

Hi all,

can i have confirmation the developer is now forced to establish the owner association by law or not? our developer in panoramic building is tryng to avoid it and is not cooperating in sharing the contacts of all the owners.......


----------



## carpetking

Pleth said:


> Imre: Which building was this?
> 
> I wish we could make a thread with maintenance charges? But apparently not.



Pleth,a maintenance thread is a good idea.The problem is AltinD :bash:


----------



## TerryPop

We have it all in Dubai- why would you ever leave? :lol:

The market has absolutely no support.... therefore...

*Fitch said the other signs of the weakening market included increasing customer delinquencies, limited liquidity and a continued reliance on short-term maturities. Oversupply, limited mortgage availability and rising interest rates also “pose significant constraints”.*


----------



## 3smiles1day

Just read this article dated May 5, 2010: Dubai officials get tough on developers who have not started projects.

http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/-new-tough-dubai-approach-201005054099.html


----------



## True Blue

bizzybonita said:


> *Maintenance-fees list :*
> 
> *M Q's* = AED 19.87 / sq.ft including chiller
> 
> *P I *= AED 18.57 / sq.ft including chiller
> 
> *Marina Mall Hotel* = AED 38.95 / sq.ft including chiller
> 
> *The Point* = AED 12 maintenance + 2 Dhs sinking fund + 3 dhs chiller = 17
> 
> *Time Place Tower (Dubai Marina)* = Dhs 13 sq/ft/year incl.chiller-fee
> 
> *Panoramic Tower (Dubai marina)* = AED 17/sqf -including chiller
> 
> *DEC Tower (Dubai Marina)* = AED14.64 / sq.ft including chiller
> 
> *MARINA Wharf I (Dubai Marina )* = AED10 /sq.ft without chiller
> 
> *Goldcrest Views (JLT)*= 12.5 AED/sqft -without chiller
> 
> *Goldcrest Views 2 (JLT)* = 12 AED/sqft -without chiller
> 
> *Zumurud Tower (Dubai Marina)* = 11 AED/sqft -including chiller
> 
> *Marina Diamond 5 (Dubai Marina)* = 14 dhs/sq ft including chiller


Cayan;
The Jewels
Maintenance Fee AED 7.37 (includes AED1.14 for sinking fund)
Chiller (apartment) AED 2.00
Dewa & Chiller (common areas) AED 3.00
Total AED12.37

Dorrabay
Maintenance fee AED 10.00 (includes AED1.93 for sinking fund)
There are no seperate Btu meters in the apartments so Common Dewa and chiller are all lumped together at AED5.15
Total AED15.15

Maintenance is paid 100% in advance although I think this will be the last time. Emaar, the master developer in the Marina, is setting the standard with 4 instalments in advance.


----------



## 234sale

carpetking said:


> Pleth,a maintenance thread is a good idea.The problem is AltinD :bash:


Use one of the property websites then, you don't have to use SSC.

I agree with Altin


----------



## carpetking

234sale said:


> Use one of the property websites then, you don't have to use SSC.
> 
> I agree with Altin


hno:


----------



## IEK

mprez said:


> The property market prices and demads have been fluctuating like anything.
> Regardless of what the market is like, some people are just stuck. They have bought property and because of the recession period, the projects have either been put on hold or cancelled altogether.
> One of the real estate agency I have worked closely with has introduced a new real estate recovery scheme. I found it very interesting. Any comments?
> 
> http://www.smithandken.com/dubai-real-estate-recovery-scheme


I have emailed them following reading thier document, lets see what they say as I have many millions sunk and would welcome any method to get at least some of it back!


----------



## Imre

mprez said:


> The property market prices and demads have been fluctuating like anything.
> Regardless of what the market is like, some people are just stuck. They have bought property and because of the recession period, the projects have either been put on hold or cancelled altogether.
> One of the real estate agency I have worked closely with has introduced a new real estate recovery scheme. I found it very interesting. Any comments?
> 
> http://www.smithandken.com/dubai-real-estate-recovery-scheme


Should be another fraud so be careful..

Just think about , what they will do the property which will be never built?

I saw another one last year when I called them they didnt care about the property or developer , they just wanted 5 % extra payment, when I said that the developer already gone , they answered... no problem and everything is possible just need to pay the 5%


----------



## 234sale

Reakon an agent, that works for smelly ben,, 

If you want a laywer that specialises in real estate law, I can recommend 2.

The two I recommend give free advice on Dubai 103.8, Sunday is the property show an you can call in.


----------



## Imre

*Hircon repossess 10 apartments in 23 Marina*

*Company will complete the Dh1.3bn project in Dubai Marina by September*

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Saturday, July 24, 2010 

Hircon repossess 10 apartments in 23 Marina. (AP)

Hircon International, a Dubai-based real estate developer, has repossessed eight to 10 apartments in 23 Marina, a Dh1.3-billion project in Dubai Marina, and expects to complete the project by September, a top company executive said.

“We expect to get Dubai Electricity and Water Authority connection by August and then start working on the hand over of the units. Although there were reasons beyond our control, which led to delays, the building is now topped out.

We are working hard to hand over units as soon as possible,” Darshan Hiranandani, Director, Hircon International, told Emirates 24/7.

The developer has repossessed eight to 10 units only of investors who were not inclined to meet their financial obligations or eager to talk and work out feasible solutions.

“We had kept some units to rent, but those were sold and these [repossessed] units will now be rented out. We are not currently planning to sell them.”

Despite the law allowing Hiranandani to take investors to court and seek compensation for failure to meet obligations, he has no plans to move the court to seek compensation from investors whose units have been repossessed.

According to Decree No(6) of 2010 dealing with the Executive Regulations of Law No(13) of 2008, a developer is not required to sell at public auction if he completes more than 80 per cent of the project and may elect to terminate the contract and retain up to 40 per cent of the purchase price.

Spanning over a height of 380 metres, the 90-storey 23 Marina tower has 288 apartments and three penthouses on the top of the tower.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...0-apartments-in-23-marina-2010-07-24-1.270011


joke, even the cladding wont be ready by September at least not in 2010


----------



## Waiting_Forever

Rob Timpie said:


> You can try to make an URL on tinypic.com.
> If not possible send the pics to me ([email protected]) and I'll put them on the tread.


Thanks Rob for your help.

These are the latest pictures I took of Champions Tower 4 on Friday 16 July 2010. As you can see from the pics, there is no progress what so ever on this project at least for the last 6 months. Memon is still using the same reason for no progress (issues with the master developer and the architect regarding extra space on the roof top). How knows what the real reason behind this delay is.

There are no sign of any work to be started soon. No workers, equipment or any life around CT4.


----------



## amplesou

^^^^^^hno:

memon hows tyson doing !
ready for another round of bull shit ??
his spelling was awfull and that line !!!!
"mind your language "
when nobody swore or insulted anybody in previous threads !
what a co--


----------



## True Blue

mrobbie said:


> Due to relocating back to the UK later this year, looking to find out some info...
> 
> We currently have a mortgage and current account with Barclays in UAE, as we are currently resident here.
> 
> Does anyone know if barclays offer accounts in Dubai for non-residents? We are looking to have an account which we can have our rental income paid into, and then the mortgage paid from this account.
> 
> I'm going to be meeting with Barclays, but want to be prepped with some info before this.
> 
> Thanks


I don't understand your problem, you already have the current account up and running. I don't expect they will close the account if you have funds lodged but they may change it to a savings account with no cheque book. As for your mortgage, I think you will need permission to let the apartment and upon obtaining the approval, I expect they will INSIST that rent is paid into the account to service the mortgage. Just beware that they might change the mortgage interest rate to reflect the change in circumstances.


----------



## agod

TB, I thought the same at first, but I suspect as he is going back home, they are going to recind his Visa, and they will likely ask him to close all his accounts, they take the view he could easily just do a runner, no Visa, no accounts, I know of another couple where that happened, it depnds on the bank I suspect, and his Visa type.

Alan


----------



## gerald.d

BBC News - Warning over Dubai housing market double-dip http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10756711


----------



## 234sale

^^ The real facts an figures are not fully available.

When we do get a quote, like villa prices are rising, they neglect to mention the number of transactions.

At the peak of the market, most of the big real estate companies where completing close to 200 transactions a month. Today, they are lucky to get 20.

When people talk about a bottom,, the bottom could would never be 0, but as a percentage off peak, could be as worse as 80%.

^^ Example of this could be Cleveland USA, 2005 -2008 (-75.9%)


http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...lahouse/2010/6/5/dubai-the-springs-springs-9/
So 720,000 AED for a 1857sqft springs...

Where these where advertised 2,800,000 at the peak... 

Just going through my property weekly collection which I collected every issue from 2005 

Some really funny reports on how the market will recover from nearly 90% of agencies in Town.


----------



## Chipmunk

I'd appreciate anyone who can give me advice on the following issue:

I've had a tenant for the past year and a couple of weeks ago they renewed the contract for another year. However, at the time of negotiation, the tenant was refusing to sign the contract until a problem with the kitchen fridge was fixed. There wasn't enough time to resolve the issue before the renewal date so we both agreed to withhold 1500 dhs payment from the 1st instalment until the issue had been dealt with. The contract also mentions that 1500 dhs is still outstanding (but doesn't mention for what reason).

Since then I've purchased a new fridge to replace it and it was delivered yesterday. So I've held up my side of the bargain but the tenant reneged on the deal and is now refusing to hand over the 1500 dhs until a whole lot of other issues are sorted first. Is this allowed?

It's clear that the tenant is using the money as leverage against me but the deal was that the money will be held back until the fridge situation is sorted out, not for anything else. The other maintenance issues were never mentioned previously and the tenant only started telling me about all these other complaints when I asked for the outstanding amount to be handed over.

The maintenance complaints aren't even serious... she's complaining that the AC control panel screen fades a short while after being switched on (but AC still works so doesn't affect the quality of her living), that the bathroom door is stiff and something about the phone connecting her to the reception downstairs. She only thought of these new issues when I asked for the outstanding money after the fridge was delivered.

I wanted to know what the legal position is. Am I even responsible for some of these (such as the AC panel screen)? Does she have to pay me the outstanding amount of the 1st instalment before I fix deal with the maintenance problems? Can I make a complaint about her or is it not worth it? The problem for me is that I can't trust the tenant to pay even if I fix the other maintenance issues as I'm sure she will then think of new complaints and forever hold the 1500 dhs as leverage against me.


----------



## 234sale

^^

15 Oct 2008


----------



## DXBQuantum

Amazing, Burj Views / The Lofts 1 beds at 2.0-2.5m AED - those were the days !!!

Your lucky to sell them at 900,000 AED now!


----------



## tehsin123

It is for rent, not sale, it seems. While reading the details down, it mentions 72,000 more than once. I guess a zero added by mistake.





234sale said:


> ^^ The real facts an figures are not fully available.
> 
> When we do get a quote, like villa prices are rising, they neglect to mention the number of transactions.
> 
> At the peak of the market, most of the big real estate companies where completing close to 200 transactions a month. Today, they are lucky to get 20.
> 
> When people talk about a bottom,, the bottom could would never be 0, but as a percentage off peak, could be as worse as 80%.
> 
> ^^ Example of this could be Cleveland USA, 2005 -2008 (-75.9%)
> 
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...lahouse/2010/6/5/dubai-the-springs-springs-9/
> So 720,000 AED for a 1857sqft springs...
> 
> Where these where advertised 2,800,000 at the peak...
> 
> Just going through my property weekly collection which I collected every issue from 2005
> 
> Some really funny reports on how the market will recover from nearly 90% of agencies in Town.


----------



## 234sale

tehsin123 said:


> It is for rent, not sale, it seems. While reading the details down, it mentions 72,000 more than once. I guess a zero added by mistake.


It's in the PAID for sale section...

You must be right as others are all aroun 1M+ mark...

Wait till end of the year for 750K... Why,, Jumeriah Village


----------



## IEK

234sale said:


> Reakon an agent, that works for smelly ben,,
> 
> If you want a laywer that specialises in real estate law, I can recommend 2.
> 
> The two I recommend give free advice on Dubai 103.8, Sunday is the property show an you can call in.


Thanks Ben, I already have the case in court, will see what Ken and his buddie say and advise.


----------



## IEK

IEK said:


> Thanks Ben, I already have the case in court, will see what Ken and his buddie say and advise.


They called me back today and although put off by the fact I had so much invested to recover (I had already paid 20% - c 5.5 m) they said they could still do something.
Their deal is they will offer you another property for purchase and will credit 20-30% of your already paid monies vs this new purchase - obviously you are still liable for the rest. 
Of course the price for the new property will not be bottom of the market price!
At this rate if I buy 4 or 5 more 5m+ properties I will get my money back - of course it will cost me another c. 20m to do so!


----------



## True Blue

^^Those prices from October 2008 just look silly in todays market but at the time they seemed sensible to the agents. I pity anyone who bought at that time as it might take a good few years to recoup the value.

When I was on my Med cruise a few weeks ago, I looked at Real Estate prices in the various ports of call and still saw prices much higher than in Dubai in it's hay day. Cannes 75m2 1 bed for 525,000euros and it was 1km from the beach. Malaga very dated 2 bed 80m2 250,000euros. 

By all accounts Spain's economy is in much worse state than Dubai, infact the world banks have coined a name for the worst countries. They are known as the PIGS. Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain. The most unstable economies in Europe if not the world.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Waiting_Forever said:


> Thanks Rob for your help.
> 
> These are the latest pictures I took of Champions Tower 4 on Friday 16 July 2010. As you can see from the pics, there is no progress what so ever on this project at least for the last 6 months. Memon is still using the same reason for no progress (issues with the master developer and the architect regarding extra space on the roof top). How knows what the real reason behind this delay is.
> 
> There are no sign of any work to be started soon. No workers, equipment or any life around CT4.


Maybe because they are working on Champion 3 and not 1, 2 and 4??

Does anyone know what happens if the steel starts to rusts (if exposed for long periods), how safe will the building be once completed?...Speaking to people from a construction perspective there's a time frame involved when metal is exposed to weather - any guarantee of safety or do things like this just don't count in Dubai?


----------



## 234sale

True Blue said:


> ^^Those prices from October 2008 just look silly in todays market but at the time they seemed sensible to the agents. I pity anyone who bought at that time as it might take a good few years to recoup the value.
> 
> When I was on my Med cruise a few weeks ago, I looked at Real Estate prices in the various ports of call and still saw prices much higher than in Dubai in it's hay day. Cannes 75m2 1 bed for 525,000euros and it was 1km from the beach. Malaga very dated 2 bed 80m2 250,000euros.
> 
> By all accounts Spain's economy is in much worse state than Dubai, infact the world banks have coined a name for the worst countries. They are known as the PIGS. Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain. The most unstable economies in Europe if not the world.


^^ Spain 50.4% overvalued LOL

http://www.economist.com/node/16542826?story_id=16542826










Japan is the best option accordinding to this report...


----------



## 234sale

^^ ACI are worse than Omniyat.. IMO


----------



## Morrismarina

234sale said:


> I heard it may be a 0.5% raise at the beginning of next month.


Can't see a rise happening at all next month. All the MPC bar one person Adam Sentence voted to keep rates on hold last time. Would take a lot for him to convince the others that the rate should go up 0.25% let alone 0.50%.

There's a lot of people trying to be clever dicks and play the contrarian especially these free email "reports". I get them all the time, had one in May saying they knew something that everybody else didn't and that the BOE would increase base rate to 1% in the next few months and if they had to put their money on it, it would be at the MPC meeting in June. And guess what ?? They were wrong about June and also July.

Unusually I have to agree with TB here, he's spot on with his comment as to why rates are low.


----------



## 234sale

^^ No I agree that thats the reasoning they are giving.. This situation won't change the slow decay.


----------



## Pleth

> Originally Posted by sydneyjay
> Funny you should say that... RTA was going straight in at number one next week!!!! You are totally right my friend.... and I bet they will just leave the roadworks along the back of JBR in the marina like a rubbish dump for these 2/3 years........


I must say RTA is back to normal in most places, which is a pleasant surprise. They are working non-stop on the 44 road getting rid of the old fashioed round-abouts, replacing them with huge fly-overs. 
All the fly-overs north of Mirdif City Center opened a week ago, very very impressive system. :nuts:

Trees, grass and flowers are being planted all around Rashidyia it look beautiful. Imagine how much it must cost to keep Dubai so green and fine-looking??


----------



## Spurs

I wish the RTA would send some cash to the marina tram project. The marina community is living in a right mess when it should be an amazing area.


----------



## 234sale

True Blue said:


> So £4Ttrillion => $6+Trillion. Dubai's problem is loose change:lol:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...nce/7915246/Europes-30-trillion-headache.html



> The rating agency said banks are at risk of a vicious circle as sovereign debt fears and financial stress feed off each other. "Banking sector woes are eroding sovereign credit-worthiness, which is in turn reducing the real and perceived capacity of governments to support weak banks," said S&P.
> 
> S&P's credit strategist. Total liabilities are €23 trillion for the eurozone and €8 trillion for the UK, Sweden, and Denmark.


So 23Trillion Euro debt for 500Million People.. Thats only 46,000 Euros for every man, woman and child.


----------



## Mistermark

True Blue said:


> So £4Ttrillion => $6+Trillion. Dubai's problem is loose change:lol:
> 
> Interest rates may rise before the end of the year but don't expect them to rise above 1%. Banks are borrowing from central bank at 0.5% and lending it at 4-12% in long and short term loans, making massive profits in the process. This is entirely intentional to get the banks back into serious profit to allow them to eventually buy back their shares(return the bailout money). Central bank will hold off until they are happy that the banks are stable before returning to a 3-4% norm (inflation +1%). I think we will see long term interest rate forecast to stay below 5% for upto 10 years. Some UK banks are already offering 4.89% mortgages fixed for life!


I think it'll be well into 2011 before the UK base rate edges above 0.5%, maybe even into 2011. It's not about the level of consumer demand, it's about keeping banks' profit margins high, first to repair their balance sheets, second to plump up for sale the ones part-owned by taxpayers and third to stuff their coffers full of cash so they feel they have to start lending at normal levels. 

Once there's evidence of normality returning in the level of bank lending to businesses and individuals, and a normalising of the margins (which will manifest itself as falls in mortgage interest rates), we will see the Bank of England start to raise rates toward normal levels. So mortgages will stay around their current level, but the banks will be making less of a mark-up. Hence their confidence in being able to offer mortgages fixed at such generous rates...


----------



## Rob Timpie

I asked some questions and received these answers from Memon.

_Dear Mr. Timmermans,

Greetings, we refer to your mail below and would like to explain the following points.
· This project is a 19 storey building and since we have completed the basement we have still many floors to go, so the compeltion date will surely be 2012 
· We request you to kindly visit the RERA website www.rpdubai.ae and get in touch which the RERA officials to confirm the same.
· Refund is with a deduction of 25% on the total sales value and the same is refunded after a year or when the unit is resold by the developer. 

We hope the above is clear, in case you require any futher clarification please do not hesitate to contact me on the details given below.

Thanking you .

Kind regards,

Sazia Sayyed
Executive – Client Relations 
Memon Investments LLC
(A member of Shaikhani Group)
M02, Business Avenue, P.O. Box 41950, Dubai, U. A. E
T: + 971 4 2989000, F: + 971 4 2989489

Email: [email protected], www.memon.ae _

What about this.... :nuts:


----------



## noir-dresses

http://www.emirates247.com/property...eure-to-skip-compensation-2010-07-29-1.272352

Developers use force majeure to skip compensation. hno:

This is the route of all evil in the UEA property market, it must be stopped.


----------



## bizzybonita

i guess it's time for lawyers to make some big profit


----------



## bizzybonita

Rise in Dubai villa prices by 6.9 percent 

The villa prices in Dubai grew by 6.99%%, while apartment prices fell by 5.23 percent between Q2 2009 and Q2 2010, as per report by a leading real estate information company. 

Based on the June figures of Sales Price Index for Dubai (SPID) announced by Reidin.com, an online database of proprietary real estate indices for UAE, there is a decrease of 0.35% between the months May and June 2010, in comparison to the decline of 1.23 percent of corresponding period between April 2010 and May 2010. 


During the same period, the prices of apartments grew by 0.71%, compared to a drop by 2.88% last month. On the other hand, villa prices fell 2.18%, in comparison to 0.63% during the month of May. This reflects a marginal increase by 0.26% over June 2009 figures.


According to Ahmet Kayhan, the Reidin.com CEO, the slight drop noticed during the past two months, is just reflection of the seasonal adjustments, rather than a trend.


The Reidin.com SPID indicated that all residential units dropped by 1.47 points in Q2 2010, to the level of 174.74 basis points, a decrease by 0.84% from Q2 2009.


For the month June 2010, Reidin.com Residential Sales Price Index was a mere 69.21 points above its base value of 100 points in January 2003. However, the Apartment Sales Price Index was 54.22% above and Reidin.com Villa Sales Price Index was 195.54%, above its base value of 100 points in January 2003.


----------



## unknownpleasures

noir-dresses said:


> http://www.emirates247.com/property...eure-to-skip-compensation-2010-07-29-1.272352
> 
> Developers use force majeure to skip compensation. hno:
> 
> This is the route of all evil in the UEA property market, it must be stopped.


Agree. Seems as though it's a term used incessantly and RERA do nothing. Made recent Al Jazeera news. Posted here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764&page=1202

24/7 are getting into this, two recent articles just days apart about the issues with developers. Unusual for local news to expose like this, not much before...maybe feel less intimidated now.

Exposure like this may get the attention of Sheik M. - it's an embarassment or should be.


----------



## Pleth

bizzybonita said:


> Rise in Dubai villa prices by 6.9 percent
> 
> The villa prices in Dubai grew by 6.99%.


Oh sure! :rofl::rofl:


----------



## dubaimat

shining some light on the victims of the collapse of the Dubai property market:

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/07/29/pkg.uae.the.forgotten.cnn


----------



## unknownpleasures

Another reason why those responsible for this mess should be locked up and key thrown away - disgraceful.


----------



## noir-dresses

These people are the hard labour behind all the construction in Dubai, they deserve more than this humility. They all have family's to feed back home.

Even the investor's are getting screwed big time, while the deleloper's only care for them selve's. In reality they don't even care about Dubai, nor the damage they are doing to it's image.


----------



## 234sale

It was Win, Win

Now it is Lose. Lose..


----------



## HateTorch

noir-dresses said:


> These people are the hard labour behind all the construction in Dubai, they deserve more than this humility. They all have family's to feed back home.
> --- snip ---


Regarding the CNN's video above, I really dont understand why the UAE government (or Sharjah specifically in this video) is not doing anything in the first place ? Can't they take care of their own backyard first ? 
I believe the government is not ignorant about these issues, so I really wonder about their priorities in their governing, in turn their abilities to govern. Or are they blind to all these social issues ?

Or it is not fair to push the responsibilites to the UAE level ? After all, the video is about Sharjah emirate ...


----------



## Pleth

dubaimat said:


> shining some light on the victims of the collapse of the Dubai property market:
> 
> http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/07/29/pkg.uae.the.forgotten.cnn


This is not entirely true. 
All employers in Sharjah must pay a deposit to the visa office (goverment) in order to employ somebody. This deposit consist of one month wages and money for a flight home. So in case the employer does a runner, then they will get the month wages and the money for the flight home. ^^

The free zone companies *must* surrender all labour's passports to the free zone and not keep them themselves. Otherwise you pay heavy penalty by the day.


----------



## Imre

Pleth said:


> This is not entirely true.
> All employers in Sharjah must pay a deposit to the visa office (goverment) in order to employ somebody. This deposit consist of one month wages and money for a flight home. So in case the employer does a runner, then they will get the month wages and the money for the flight home. ^^
> 
> The free zone companies *must* surrender all labour's passports to the free zone and not keep them themselves. Otherwise you pay heavy penalty by the day.


This true but the problem that they havent got a salary for 6 months or even more thats why the deposit is not enough..

What about the passports ? Maybe the employers just put away when they left UAE?


----------



## methodinmadness

Spurs said:


> If you choose to go with the above scheme does Aristocrat transfer you out of royal estates.... if so Aristocrat are giving you permission to leave their project and not pay them the outstanding amount on their project???


Now you can see the problem.. Its extremely unlikely Aristocrat will give their permission. Smith & Ken must know this... sign with them and double your debt!


----------



## dubaimat

*UAE to Suspend Blackberry Service on Security Fears*

DUBAI (Reuters) - The United Arab Emirates will suspend use of Blackberry services in October, citing concerns about security risks, the state news agency said on Sunday.

The UAE said it would halt Blackberry services until an "acceptable solution" is developed and applied.

"It's a final decision but we are continuing discussions with them," Mohammed Al Ghanem, director general of the UAE's Telecommunications Regulatory Authority (TRA) told Reuters.

"*Censorship has got nothing to do with this*. What we are talking about is suspension due to the lack of compliance with UAE telecommunications regulations."

Officials at the smartphone's manufacturer Research In Motion of Canada were not immediately available for comment.

The suspension of Blackberry Messenger, email and web browsing services comes after attempts dating back to 2007 to bring the service into line with regulations, the UAE's TRA said.

"Today's decision is based on the fact that, in their current form, *certain Blackberry services allow users to act without any legal accountability, causing judicial, social and national security concerns for the UAE*," the state news agency said. 

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/08/01/business/business-us-uae-blackberry.html?hp


----------



## Morrismarina

dubaimat said:


> DUBAI (Reuters) - The United Arab Emirates will suspend use of Blackberry services in October, citing concerns about security risks, the state news agency said on Sunday.
> 
> The UAE said it would halt Blackberry services until an "acceptable solution" is developed and applied.
> 
> "It's a final decision but we are continuing discussions with them," Mohammed Al Ghanem, director general of the UAE's Telecommunications Regulatory Authority (TRA) told Reuters.
> 
> "*Censorship has got nothing to do with this*. What we are talking about is suspension due to the lack of compliance with UAE telecommunications regulations."
> 
> Officials at the smartphone's manufacturer Research In Motion of Canada were not immediately available for comment.
> 
> The suspension of Blackberry Messenger, email and web browsing services comes after attempts dating back to 2007 to bring the service into line with regulations, the UAE's TRA said.
> 
> "Today's decision is based on the fact that, in their current form, *certain Blackberry services allow users to act without any legal accountability, causing judicial, social and national security concerns for the UAE*," the state news agency said.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/08/01/business/business-us-uae-blackberry.html?hp


Well the rest of the World don't have a problem with it. Funny that the UAE have issues with this stuff, like Skype as well. They banned the residency visa's now they're having a go at everything else. They'll be banning the burka next !! :lol:


----------



## 234sale

^^ Compulsory Hijab, in public buildings more likely. Rera, DLP, RTA,,, ect


----------



## cole35

Hey guys!

I have been on vacation for a while and havent been keeping up with the progress, but I recently received a newsletter from Ishraqah , did anyone else get it ? 

It seems that the construction is going fast ....


----------



## AppleMac

Morrismarina said:


> Well the rest of the World don't have a problem with it.


well India are looking at possibly banning Blackberry for the same reason and the US and UK have already come to an agreement with RIM to monitor their data.

it would be fairly simple for RIM to route all their data through a UAE based server and give the Government here access to it - but if they do that every government is going to want the same and it will cost them a fortune. 

Either way I think Iphone shares will be rising tomorrow :lol:


----------



## Mistermark

dubaimat said:


> DUBAI (Reuters) - The United Arab Emirates will suspend use of Blackberry services in October, citing concerns about security risks, the state news agency said on Sunday.
> 
> The UAE said it would halt Blackberry services until an "acceptable solution" is developed and applied.
> 
> "It's a final decision but we are continuing discussions with them," Mohammed Al Ghanem, director general of the UAE's Telecommunications Regulatory Authority (TRA) told Reuters.
> 
> "*Censorship has got nothing to do with this*. What we are talking about is suspension due to the lack of compliance with UAE telecommunications regulations."
> 
> Officials at the smartphone's manufacturer Research In Motion of Canada were not immediately available for comment.
> 
> The suspension of Blackberry Messenger, email and web browsing services comes after attempts dating back to 2007 to bring the service into line with regulations, the UAE's TRA said.
> 
> "Today's decision is based on the fact that, in their current form, *certain Blackberry services allow users to act without any legal accountability, causing judicial, social and national security concerns for the UAE*," the state news agency said.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/08/01/business/business-us-uae-blackberry.html?hp


Does anyone know whether this applies to non-UAE residents visiting Dubai for business or pleasure? If so, it will drive another nail into the country's economy, at precisely the time when it doesn't need this...


----------



## dubaimat

*Saudi Arabia to Block BlackBerry Messaging*

brothers in arms, some kind of new virus infection or just plain and simple stupidity?hno:

*Saudi Arabia to Block BlackBerry Messaging*
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: August 1, 2010

Filed at 11:57 a.m. ET

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) -- The UAE said Sunday it will block key features on BlackBerry smart phones, citing national security concerns because the devices operate beyond the government's ability to monitor their use. Officials in neighboring Saudi Arabia indicated it planned to follow suit. 

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/08/01/technology/AP-ML-Emirates-BlackBerry.html?_r=1&hp


----------



## Morrismarina

So why should the Goverment be able to monitor everybody's emails ?? Is there no privacy anymore ??


----------



## AppleMac

Morrismarina said:


> So why should the Goverment be able to monitor everybody's emails ?? Is there no privacy anymore ??


has there ever been?

When Post Services were invented letters were read, when telephones were invented calls were listened to, etc. etc. - so reading your emails shouldn't be surprising.


----------



## biyadoo

^^ UAE making headlines for all the wrong reasons once again. Shooting themselves in the foot, as usual.


----------



## HappyLarry

biyadoo said:


> ^^ UAE making headlines for all the wrong reasons once again. Shooting themselves in the foot, as usual.


Not really!
Saudi Arabia, India, and others have expressed similar concerns. UAE is perfectly entitled to protect itself from Blackberry techies who are probably working !!!!!???????......:cheers:


----------



## Get Smart

HappyLarry said:


> Not really!
> Saudi Arabia, India, and others have expressed similar concerns. UAE is perfectly entitled to protect itself from Blackberry techies who are probably working !!!!!???????......:cheers:


+1


----------



## Imre

*UAE petrol prices could rise another 40 fils*

Hike could happen if local distributors decide to match international fuel prices

By Vicky KapurPublished Sunday, August 01, 2010 

Fuel prices at gas stations could go up by another 40 fils if the local distributors decide to bring them up to match international petrol prices and add their commission and marketing costs, Emirates 24|7 calculations show.

Despite the fact that the local retailers have increased the price of petrol in the UAE by 35 fils since the beginning of the year, the retail price is still more than 20 fils cheaper than conventional regular petrol spot prices in Singapore, data shows.

The basic grade of petrol costs Dh1.72 at local filling stations while refined petrol (Singapore) is available for around $2 a gallon (3.78 litres), which works out to Dh1.94 a litre.

http://www.emirates247.com/business...ould-rise-another-40-fils-2010-08-01-1.273365


----------



## AppleMac

I was at a briefing today about the change to owners associations and it was mentioned that, as part of the same law, from next year it will be mandatory for any sale of a property to have a survey.

should be interesting....:lol:


----------



## 234sale

Que for Du, was similar to 2006 Emaar property launch. The at least 30 people all with blackberry's in their hands..


----------



## True Blue

AppleMac said:


> I was at a briefing today about the change to owners associations and it was mentioned that, as part of the same law, from next year it will be mandatory for any sale of a property to have a survey.
> 
> should be interesting....:lol:


What they need to do is pass the sale proceeds through owners associations so that any maintenance fees can be deducted together with heavy fines for people who have consistently avoided paying. Owners associations need more powers to deal with non payers.


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> What they need to do is pass the sale proceeds through owners associations so that any maintenance fees can be deducted together with heavy fines for people who have consistently avoided paying. Owners associations need more powers to deal with non payers.


Apparently under the new law, Owners Associations can force the compulsory sale of the properties of defaulters - before it gets to that stage they can also charge interest and fines for late payment.

I hope this will make it more easier to collect all service charges owed.


----------



## agod

AppleMac said:


> Apparently under the new law, Owners Associations can force the compulsory sale of the properties of defaulters - before it gets to that stage they can also charge interest and fines for late payment.
> 
> I hope this will make it more easier to collect all service charges owed.


Our association is getting together with a FM Manager, that has there own Web Portal, allowing Owners the ability to pay by easy terms or credit card, on the Survey question, yes, you need it to pay only for carpet area, as opposed to developers, including balconies, car parking, and storage spaces, its a great leap forward, and we are finally getting to throw out these bad Developers who have been running the FM.

The best bit is the Developer has to bear the cost of setting it up.

A.


----------



## Porcello

AppleMac said:


> Apparently under the new law, Owners Associations can force the compulsory sale of the properties of defaulters - before it gets to that stage they can also charge interest and fines for late payment.
> 
> I hope this will make it more easier to collect all service charges owed.


I don't know who told you that, but I've read all the regulations looking for something similar and it's not there.
The only measure against defaulters included in the regulations is the imposition of 1% per month on the outstanding fees.


----------



## DXBQuantum

Good price! - He is smart renewing it for you early, he probably thinks prices will go down further in 4 months time.... - I think they will as well.

Main supply is not being absorbed quick enough..


----------



## 234sale

Was in Index the other day, Gerald and I was having the look at the views of BK.

All the units are finished except the penthouses which are a couple of weeks off.

So thats another 200 high end units hitting the market in 2 months or so...

What scary is all those supper talls in DM, must be at least 4000 unit alone, only 6-12months off.

As I have said before, Its easy to calculate the real number of units being handed over, just look at the dewa connections statistics, on dewa.ae

No. of Consumers 2008=467,648, 2009=530,993
http://www.dewa.gov.ae/aboutus/electStats2009.aspx

Has been on average 70,000 new customers aka accounts added since 2004

Then if you go through the precentage of customers, 50,000 is the number of residential units approx that get connected.

With supply delays, we will have 4-5 years of 50,000 ressy hitting the market every year.

Met a guy from Reidin.com, they are composing an exact list of how much supply will be coming. Hi Saurabh


----------



## robertacg

How do I register my property with RERA what do I need ?


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> ^^ You know I was going on about renewing the rent for my oldtown..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got it for 80K, 2 cheques....


I think your landlord was lucky to get that. I can't imagine him being able to let it out to anyone else after you've been living in it for 3 years :lol:


----------



## robertacg

ANY IDEA, ANYONE ?

How do I register my property with RERA what do I need ?

I HAVE THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT, I WILL HAVE DEWA AND EMPOWER CONNECTION DOCUMENTS SHORTLY AND I WILL HAVE A FINAL PAYMENT CERTIFICATE, BUT GETTING THROUGH TO RERA IS NOT EASY, SO WOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR INFO FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS DONE IT. 

THANKS


----------



## Imre

robertacg said:


> ANY IDEA, ANYONE ?
> 
> How do I register my property with RERA what do I need ?
> 
> I HAVE THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT, I WILL HAVE DEWA AND EMPOWER CONNECTION DOCUMENTS SHORTLY AND I WILL HAVE A FINAL PAYMENT CERTIFICATE, BUT GETTING THROUGH TO RERA IS NOT EASY, SO WOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR INFO FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS DONE IT.
> 
> THANKS


Did you mean the title deed registration at the Land Department?

Need your passport, sales contract , NOC from the developer ( or Certificate of Ownership/Final Payment ) 1 or 2 % of the original price (depends on the developer) and 295 AED.

You can pay by cash, credit card or manager cheque.

Better to go there early morning, around 8-9 a.m. , I did everything within 1.5 hours for 2 units.


----------



## Porcello

234sale said:


> ^^ Absolutely true, except wrong law
> 
> http://rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/fg?f=DaFD6buDFunTim9885A7Nu9lzfurwomL1TSA5bIPpx7TdClqE4dHrcHCDKr6bbHi
> 
> Law No 13 /Article (12)
> The area of a sold Real Estate Unit is correct. If the unit turns out to be bigger on
> completion, the developer may not claim the difference in value and if the unit
> turns out to be smaller then the developer must compensate the purchaser for
> the difference unless it is marginal in which case the developer would not be
> required to compensate the purchaser for the shortfall in the area.


You got me there... I was not 100% sure about the law number and I bluffed!


----------



## 234sale

Imre said:


> Did you mean the title deed registration at the Land Department?
> 
> Need your passport, sales contract , NOC from the developer ( or Certificate of Ownership/Final Payment ) 1 or 2 % of the original price (depends on the developer) and 295 AED.
> 
> You can pay by cash, credit card or manager cheque.
> 
> Better to go there early morning, around 8-9 a.m. , I did everything within 1.5 hours for 2 units.


(Interim Register) Oqood, I dont think you can pay the 295AED as it has to be done by the developer (Should really be paid for the developer as well)

(Title deed) Imre's correct, the total fee is 2%, again should be 1% buyer, 1% developer paid.


----------



## robertacg

oh thanks very much for the clarification; developer quite useless in giving me simple guidance.

Thanks!


----------



## True Blue

234sale said:


> Was in Index the other day, Gerald and I was having the look at the views of BK.
> 
> All the units are finished except the penthouses which are a couple of weeks off.
> 
> So thats another 200 high end units hitting the market in 2 months or so...
> 
> *What scary is all those supper talls in DM, must be at least 4000 unit alone, only 6-12months off.*
> 
> As I have said before, Its easy to calculate the real number of units being handed over, just look at the dewa connections statistics, on dewa.ae
> 
> No. of Consumers 2008=467,648, 2009=530,993
> http://www.dewa.gov.ae/aboutus/electStats2009.aspx
> 
> Has been on average 70,000 new customers aka accounts added since 2004
> 
> Then if you go through the precentage of customers, 50,000 is the number of residential units approx that get connected.
> 
> With supply delays, we will have 4-5 years of 50,000 ressy hitting the market every year.


^^ My tenant from The Jewels contacted me today to say he will be looking for a 2 bed in The Jewels or Dorrabay next year as rents will be within his budget and he has no desire to move out of the area due to traffic issues with the other end of the marina. Good to see how the maturing market is turning out.



234sale said:


> ^^ You know I was going on about renewing the rent for my oldtown..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got it for 80K, 2 cheques....


I don't know how you can sleep at night knowing your landlords costs are 120k and you screwed him down to 80k. You are not helping the situation, soon everyone will think they can abuse their landlords in this way:bash:

I normally find that picking up a few bottles of champers at Glasgow airport on the way out, makes rental negotiations go smoother for me:laugh:


----------



## Richard Head

Just found a new tenant for my Shoreline apartment. There is so much property available on the Palm it's ridiculous. 2 bedroom with a decent partial sea view

2008 - 190k
2009 - 150k
2010 - 100k

uke:


----------



## I Know

*Dubai real estate oversupply to peak in 2012*

The oversupply of Dubai homes is set to peak in 2012, with vacancies projected at between 25-28 percent, the latest real estate report by Landmark Advisory released on Wednesday states.


Full Article here

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/594146-dubai-real-estate-oversupply-to-peak-in-2012


----------



## 234sale

True Blue said:


> I don't know how you can sleep at night knowing your landlords costs are 120k and you screwed him down to 80k. You are not helping the situation, soon everyone will think they can abuse their landlords in this way:bash:


Larger 2 bed plus maids plus study next door is available for 100K,, dubizzle makes nego easy...


----------



## 234sale

Richard Head said:


> Just found a new tenant for my Shoreline apartment. There is so much property available on the Palm it's ridiculous. 2 bedroom with a decent partial sea view
> 
> 2008 - 190k
> 2009 - 150k
> 2010 - 100k
> 
> uke:


2011 - 60k

:badnews:


----------



## Winded

*International Property Resolution*

I agree that WSP posting multiple pictures of tinkering on site is a smoke screen - its clear that nothing of any significance is happening as the towers around it complete. They have lost all credibility. So to action!

Ive had contact with this company http://www.mypropertyresolution.com/ who tell me that if there are a few of us who want to take action against Wind to recover 75% of money invested they will pursue this action through RERA and the Land Department - see below.

If anyone is interested in getting an idea of costs please pm or email me [email protected]. If there are a few of us it might be reasonable.


_We would be happy to look into this in a little more detail.

We have a team in the UK and a team in Dubai who will work on your behalf to try and get you a resolution. The representatives in Dubai will go and visit the land department, RERA, the developer and the relevant parties on site.

We try to reduce the amount of money the clients need to pay by representing a set number of clients in each development and splitting the cost between each. If we are going to see RERA on behalf one client, we can make the most of the visit by addressing several issues at the same time, we find this is the most cost effective way to work.

A significant amount of work needs to go into this both in Dubai and the UK, for this reason the more clients we represent in each development the more cost effective it becomes since the cost for the case is shared between everyone. We chose not to operate on a no win no fee basis due to the on going costs with the case, staff etc._


----------



## I Know

*History And Mystery*

The past is History

Today is a gift

And tommorow is a Mystery


----------



## Pleth

234sale said:


> ^^ Absolutely true, except wrong law
> 
> http://rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/fg?f=DaFD6buDFunTim9885A7Nu9lzfurwomL1TSA5bIPpx7TdClqE4dHrcHCDKr6bbHi
> 
> Law No 13 /Article (12)
> The area of a sold Real Estate Unit is correct. If the unit turns out to be bigger on
> completion, the developer may not claim the difference in value and if the unit
> turns out to be smaller then the developer must compensate the purchaser for
> the difference unless it is marginal in which case the developer would not be
> required to compensate the purchaser for the shortfall in the area.


And 2 of my developers demand 15% extra money for area OUTSIDE my apartments; corridors, lifts, stairs etc.
So they want me to sign a new contract :bash:

We should have a thread called "Developers from Hell"!


----------



## 234sale

^^ please no legal mess

But I highlight the point, if you did sign a new contract you would have to pay the difference.

As to the common areas, the developer still would own them, so cannot be sold in such a way.


----------



## noir-dresses

If these rent's keep falling, then it's not even worth renting. I'll see what happen's with my tenant when his contract end's in October. 

I actually wouldn't mind him leaving so I can use the place my self.


----------



## 234sale

Even with the place empty, you still have to pay the sevice charge fee..

Did you heard richard on dubai eye reading the Arabian Business Report, he usually bullish, first time I heard him be realistic.


----------



## Imre

High Times said:


> *Dubai will start demolishing buildings within 12 months from now.*


Thats true, already saw some in Deira and other areas..

In Karama also have few empty buildings which are just waiting for the removing now.

Oversupply or not , easy to solve the problem


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> What frightens me is reading how many people bought through Select properties on the non status Long payment plan without having any financial safety net of their own. Now they are gambling on getting tenants that will pay the "mortgage" and cover the servicing costs. Scary stuff!!


Isn't that the case for anyone who bought with a UK mortgage also


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I see you can get a hotel room in Dubai for only £23 per night now  although in Bur Dubai area.


----------



## TerryPop

Dubai_Steve said:


> I see you can get a hotel room in Dubai for only £23 per night now  although in Bur Dubai area.


Re service charges equalling rents...

This has been the best scam ever!

Buy a property from Nakheel

Pay them upfront for the service charge and then eek back as much of it as you can over a 12 month period.

You have become the sub let guy 

Nakheel and PDC are now the major benficiaries on a number of projects- the landlord(s) are the suckers.


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> I see you can get a hotel room in Dubai for only £23 per night now  although in Bur Dubai area.


Even for 99 AED , next to the Jebel Ali free zone (easyhotel or similar)

Oasis Beach Tower (Al Fattan Marina Tower) also advertising for 295 AED/night during the ramadan.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

This studio is only £21 per night, including UK agents booking fees.


----------



## High Times

Dubai_Steve said:


> What are you talking about, demolishing buildings, which buildings?





Imre said:


> Thats true, already saw some in Deira and other areas..
> 
> In Karama also have few empty buildings which are just waiting for the removing now.
> 
> Oversupply or not , easy to solve the problem


People do not realise (or they choose to ignore), the seriousness of the problem STILL facing Dubai. I was recently talking to a fairly high level official in the Dubai Government in a business negotiation not related to real estate.

The top tier of government are shitting themselves over the situation they have created and its all due to greed and laziness. When the so called expert advisers came to Dubai they had the idea to "build and they will come", not Mo. He just went with it as a trail and it got out of hand. Very few world leaders would have had the balls to stop the gold rush that followed.

The problem now is even if all construction stops, due to an anti foreigner attitude amongst the majority of Emiratis, and the real Boss in AD not needing more foreigners in the UAE the exponential growth in ex-pats WILL NOT happen.

With infinite supply and minimal demand the result wont be pretty. Unfortunately many in Dubai are still talking of a recovery like it is an inevitability and things will bounce back. These are the people who have a vested interest in Dubai and are toeing the party line. They don’t wont you to know the truth and will do anything to prevent you from understanding it. Censorship is just one ugly tool.

Next time you are in Dubai look at the hotel lobbies, and shops in malls where you can see 10 Philippinos, Indians, or Pakistanis doing the job that 3 of their kind could easily manage. This is the ground level example of an overpopulated country. The whole of Dubai is bottom heavy and these numbers do not contribute to the economy which is geared for Western style capacity. 

It’s all pointing to one ugly truth and that’s downsizing. When yields fall further it will end up costing investors to keep property and as sufficient numbers walk away. Unpaid service charges, unaffordable building management, non existent health and safety laws will see whole buildings become victims given time.

The only option will be to rip them down and landscape the space. As my friend Imre has pointed out it’s already happening in other areas, it happened in Japan and it will happen in Dubai.

Unfortunately the Arab culture is to hide and ignore the harsh realities that sometimes face us (particularly when it has been self inflicted by greed, throw into the mix the seemingly endless supply of the Dubai PR machine and the only question is when*?* 


*We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter.*​


----------



## bizzybonita

Imre said:


> Thats true, already saw some in Deira and other areas..
> 
> In Karama also have few empty buildings which are just waiting for the removing now.
> 
> *Oversupply *or not , easy to solve the problem


I do my own calculation that give me result about oversupply of Dubai property alone it will around 55-60,000 units by 2015. in other hand , where are the peoples to stop this over n over ? as easy as this ! 

what's the reason behind oversupply property? 

unless hotels numbers will be like cafeteria , tourism area will be in each lobby of any such a tower  and prices will be nothing then nothing & for nothing to rent it out also for nothing . 

so where is the recover ? 

here some couple signs of market recover !

Huge of Debt= Jobless= Low salaries =off security of BB = Oversupply properties = Less loan = Multiple of unknown fees = New law against investors ( 100% ownership for foreigner )= population none = patrol price....etc


----------



## bizzybonita

High Times , all what you mention it above i really feel it in my ligament ! +1


----------



## speculator

High Times said:


> The top tier of government are shitting themselves over the situation they have created and its all due to greed and laziness.




So they admited this to you did they ? :lol::lol:

You sure it wasnt in London this meeting. Sounds very close to home.

The future for Dubai is much more positive than say the UK which is totally F'd.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

High_Times, when are they going to demolish the several 3 bed torch apartments you bought? :lol:

I do agree though that Emirati racist attitude will be their downfall.


----------



## mackie1964

A little War (which is coming soon) and a relaxation in Visa rules (again, coming soon) and all of Dubai's problems are over. Happy days :cheers:

Someone is 18 months behind on information again :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What little war?


----------



## I Know

*The Hour*

Narrated Abu Hurairah (radi Allahu anhu): Allah’s Messenger (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said, “The Hour will not be established till …the people compete with one another in constructing high buildings…” [Sahih Bukhari]

Thus, competing in the construction of tall buildings is one of the signs of the Day of Judgement. In a hadith recorded in Sahih Muslim, Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) told us that “you shall see barefoot, naked, penniless shepherds vying in constructing high buildings.” This hadith describes people who become rich all of a sudden and then build not for need but only in competition. 

We see this today in the Gulf states, after the oil boom. People who had no money are now competing with one other in erecting tall buildings. They are competing in building taller and taller structures where there is no need to make such buildings, as there is a lot of space! It is not like Singapore or New York or Japan, where people had to build vertically for lack of space.

Building superfluous structures was one of the characteristics of the people of Aad, who were destroyed by Allah’s punishment. Prophet Huud (alaihis salam) questioned their building unnecessary monuments on top of mountains. But do we even question today what kind of “development” is happening? Or are we too busy gloating in this senseless competition with the west, that if they can build tall buildings, we can build taller?


----------



## gerald.d

High Times said:


> <snip>


What was the thing that was supposed to happen in March?


----------



## True Blue

The only demolishing I can see happening is where the developer has gone bust or run away with the money and the authorities want the uncompleted buildings taken down before they serve as a monument to the failure. Look what they did with the Lighthouse in the marina, it sat for years then one day they sent in the demolishers to break up the foundations and fill it in. All before the TV cameras returned in my opinion. ACI developments could be first for the ball and chain, then the Pad for example.:runaway:


----------



## High Times

gerald.d said:


> What was the thing that was supposed to happen in March?


Ahh my stalker is back.


I presume you are reffering to this post i made in December 2009: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=49016285#post49016285

I was reffering to the news that the wider world became aware of in March 2010;

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aXRGQid_XmQI

http://gulfnews.com/business/genera...t-debt-restructuring-plan-soon-ahmad-1.598623

Of course those in the know proir to the information becoming "public knowledge" were taking advantage of it in the CDS market shown here in Jan/Feb 2010:









http://www.alphadinar.com/2010/05/11/correlation-cds-stock-indices/

One of the problems of living in a closed society is that you are always the last to know whats really going on.


----------



## High Times

mackie1964 said:


> A little War (which is coming soon) and a relaxation in Visa rules (again, coming soon) and all of Dubai's problems are over. Happy days :cheers:
> 
> Someone is 18 months behind on information again :lol:


Interesting that you find the prospect of tens of thousands of Arabs/Muslims dying in "a little war" to be good for Dubai, and such an event will provide "Happy Days" for you.


----------



## AltinD

Imre said:


> Even for 99 AED , next to the Jebel Ali free zone (easyhotel or similar).


It's not 'next to', is INSIDE the Free Zone ... but you can say it's next to Dubai World HQ :lol:


----------



## mackie1964

High Times said:


> Interesting that you find the prospect of tens of thousands of Arabs/Muslims dying in "a little war" to be good for Dubai, and such an event will provide "Happy Days" for you.


It was meant as a flippant remark. Not that we can do anything about it, if it happens. Bitterness and arrogance are blinding you and stopping you getting along with others. :dunno:


----------



## Morrismarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> Only 2 mortgages! How can the banks make any money if they are not lending any?


Well they'll still be making profit on their existing mortgage book.

It does show how dire the situation is in Dubai though. Many are saying the UK is as bad or worse, but clearly there were more than 2 mortgages taken out in the UK last month. I think the figure was 40,000 or thereabouts.


----------



## AltinD

Speaking of investments and British Pounds, how long does it usually take for a small package sent from the U.K. (let say Amazon) to Dubai via Royal Mail?


----------



## 234sale

^^ 7min , 10average, 14max,, you've not bought Herve's book have you.. :lol:


----------



## gerald.d

7 minutes? Wow


----------



## AltinD

234sale said:


> ^^ 7min , 10average, 14max,, you've not bought Herve's book have you.. :lol:


You mean days don't you? 

Herve's book? Are you kidding me ... the delivery address is under Dubai World's jurisdictions so it wouldn't arrive :rofl:


----------



## True Blue

^^Have you ordered a copy of "The Big Short" by Micheal Lewis. It's a recommended read if you want to get your head around how the brainless banks got greedy and fecked it up for us allkay:


----------



## noir-dresses

If my tenant's lease expire's in October, do I ask him two month's before if he want to stay, or does he want to leave ?

How does it work ?

Even if I don't ask, does he just leave when it expire's, or what ?


----------



## Porcello

noir-dresses said:


> If my tenant's lease expire's in October, do I ask him two month's before that if he want to stay, or does he want to leave ?
> 
> How does it work ?
> 
> Even if I don't ask, does he just leave when it expire's, or what ?


Yep, he may just leave on expiration. Ask him one month in advance, that's more than enough.


----------



## noir-dresses

Porcello said:


> Yep, he can just leave on expiration. Ask him one month before, that's more than enough.


Thank's

Will try to get same rent, if not, Dubai here I come


----------



## True Blue

^^He is obligated to serve the proper notice stated in the contract or he may forfeit his deposit. Tenants normally hold off as the market is falling so they can negotiate a better price. If the market was rising you can be sure he would be chasing you for an agreement.

It might be a good idea to send an email pointing out that the tenancy is within 3 months of expiry and you have not received any notice of his intentions, see what that brings.


----------



## HateTorch

noir-dresses said:


> If my tenant's lease expire's in October, do I ask him two month's before if he want to stay, or does he want to leave ?
> 
> How does it work ?
> 
> Even if I don't ask, does he just leave when it expire's, or what ?


Previously I have a clause in my tenancy contract saying that if there are no renewal by that time, I must leave. And the renewal intention must be made two months in advance.
So normally I took the initiative to renew with my landlord.

My existing contract says I can leave anytime, but I will automatically forfeit 2mths of my rent.
I am a tenant from heaven ;-)


----------



## noir-dresses

I also have the two month penalty fee with my tenant, so basically I'm in a no lose situation rite now till October.

I'm lucky my tenant is a good person, I'll send him a email to see what his intention's are beyond October. I don't think he'll ask for a discount if he decide's to stay cause his company from Abu Dhabi pays his rent, and bills. He also say's he love's the apartment, and the view.


----------



## True Blue

^^You could have the same problem as me, my tenant is on a budget also paid by his company but he has already told me he is looking for a bigger apartment now for the same money he pays me


----------



## gerald.d

noir-dresses said:


> I also have the two month penalty fee with my tenant, so basically I'm in a no lose situation rite now till October.
> 
> I'm lucky my tenant is a good person, I'll send him a email to see what his intention's are beyond October. I don't think he'll ask for a discount if he decide's to stay cause his company from Abu Dhabi pays his rent, and bills. He also say's he love's the apartment, and the view.


I think you'd have to be incredibly lucky to get the same rent, company or no company.


----------



## noir-dresses

Honestly the only reason I rented was because JLT lakes, landscaping, and community was not done yet, that's all. I knew once the community was complete I would do all the interior fitting's inside the way I like it, and furnish it as well to give it a true feel of being home.

I kind of miss my apartment, and being in Dubai.

Hope the JLT metro open's up soon so I have easy access across SZR to marina.

I give JLT one more year before it is truly ready to be a community, ( I hope ). 

I think I'm just going to tell my tenant that I'm going to start living in the apartment, that's what would make me happy, and I really don't need the rent money.


----------



## Spurs

JLT will take more than 1 year to look like a community.... maybe 2 or 3 years.


----------



## 234sale

http://www.ameinfo.com/239889.html
Lehman Brothers Europe sues Dubai Holding Commercial Operations Group


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Standard Chartered Bank very positive about growth over the mid-term for UAEEven though the debt level remains high and the property market has corrected itself, the Standard Chartered Bank reported that Dubai still leads in the UAE’s non-oil sector growth.Dubai has three strong areas at its core, namely trade, tourism and services that have remained strong throughout the recent crisis.* The bank’s special report noted that Dubai has diversity that will help to generate growth in the economic times ahead.Specifically logistics, finances, hospitality and retail were named by the report and it also noted that although the emirate is dealing with challenging times, this diversity lands it in a positive place over the medium to long term forecast.Right now over 98 per cent of the economy in Dubai is not based in oil.* Since oil reserves are projected to approach depletion over the next 20 years Dubai has made significant investments to diversify their economy.Dubai currently holds the third largest spot in the global re-exporting industry, just behind Singapore and Hong Kong.* Almost 40 per cent of the GDP in the emirate is trade related, and services account for over 25 per cent of the economy.Figures from the Dubai Chamber report that growth in exports and re-exports still indicate continuous improvements over the first half of 2010, showing a full 13.7 per cent rise from the first half of 2009.A combination of both exports and re-exports was calculated to be Dh103.2 billion over the opening six months of 2010, as stated by the Dubai Chamber in their semi-annual report.Trade was boosted due to the positive atmosphere and logistical infrastructure present at the ports and airports in Dubai.* Being the hub for the region gave Dubai an opportunity to lead in the area with their free zone models.* First Jebel Ali Free Zone grew to be a hub for trading firms and business, then the Internet and Media City took initiative and became the local headquarters of many international IT and media outlets.** Finally the Dubai International Financial Centre is attracting many as the key financial services firms in the area.With the area’s largest airport, a world class airline and touted as the Gulf Region’s best for hotels, shopping centres and other entertainment, Dubai is focused on tourism.These comments were included in the Shale Gas and Implications report for the GCC, which also noted that the GCC needs to diversify even more.The report mentioned that shale gas as used in the US energy maker was unconventional and higher priced than other natural gases.* And also that other sources being developed will help to reduce the Middle East and Russia’s reliance on natural gas being supplied.Since the GCC economies are still mostly centered in the oil sector, including production, manufacturing and services to the government, this change would drastically impact their economies as well.Over the short and mid-term shale is not a threat to oil exports in the GCC, but oil production has a pronounced cycle of volatility.* And nations with plenty of resources are known to perform below the levels of some with no resources at all.Therefore the oil-dependent economies should diversify to get the risks down.* The report said this is essential and necessary, despite the fact that oil and gas will still have a major role throughout the GCC, those diversified areas and local demographics are driving growth hard.* It noted that diversification and demographics should be combined when planning since the demographics offer a structure for diversifying.* Bahrain and Dubai are local leaders, mostly due to necessity as their oil reserves are so low.The report said that the health of the non-oil sector in Dubai shows that diversifying is critical for economic stability as stronger areas can help to balance out weaker or more volatile ones in a crisis.Dubai is a leader in diversification throughout the whole GCC and certainly in the UAE itself.* Many things are working to maintain the competitiveness of Dubai’s economy, including heavier investments in key infrastructure developments like the latest metro system and more available and affordable housing and accommodations.


----------



## BlueBath

*B2B Tower by KM Properties.*

Hi 234sale..........

any news for this B2B ? 

didn't call their office as they usually tell series of lies......hno:

can anyone upload the current site picture ? better to talk with evidence.


----------



## 234sale

^^ I've been monitoring prices in certain developments since 2007..

Selling price of Executive towers, useful as many always on the market.

Actually seems we had some stablisation, now prices are reducing again.


----------



## Mistermark

234sale said:


> ^^ I've been monitoring prices in certain developments since 2007..
> 
> Selling price of Executive towers, useful as many always on the market.
> 
> Actually seems we had some stablisation, now prices are reducing again.


Everything being equal, I'd expect to see some softening of the market with the approach of the summer, due to people going away and some expats returning home. If the market is healthy, it should improve in the Autumn. Last year there was stability at that time, which I believe represents an underlying slow decline, which is probably continuing.


----------



## bizzybonita

International City units selling below launch price

Owners offering up to 15% discounts on studios and one-bedroom apartments.










Price of apartments in International City are at their lowest as property owners are selling at prices below the launch price.

While studios were sold for Dh220,000 and one-beds for Dh320,000 at the time of launch, property owners are now offering the units at a discount ranging from 10 to 15 per cent, according to data analysed by Emirates 24|7.

The current asking price for studios is between Dh190,000 and Dh210,000, while one beds are available for Dh290,000 to Dh310,000. As for the furnished apartments, owners seek an additional Dh15,000 to Dh20,000.

In 2008, the average sale price touched a high of Dh870 per square feet, declining to Dh600 per sq ft in 2009 and now hovering at Dh400 per sq ft this year.

According to Nakheel’s website, International City project was launched in July 2002 and consisted of a residential district and a central district.

The residential district spreads over an area of 300 hectares and consists of 387 buildings.

It will house a total of 27,437 units, made up of 22,235 residential units (44.5 square metre studio and 66.5 sq m one bed) and 5,202 retail units, while the central district covers an area of 21 hectares and consists of 34 plots.

Dubai-based Harbor Real Estate estimates that less than 60 per cent of the 27,000 odd units that came on stream in 2007, 2008 and 2009 have been occupied-to-date.

Reasons for the low occupancy rate are lack of proximity to central Dubai, shops, restaurants and other amenities are being occupied slower than expected due to lengthy licensing processes and negative publicity related to parking issues, poor signage, lack of on-site facilities.

Harbor, however, expects to see a reversal in these factors, citing that most of the issues are being addressed and resolved.

Although not many banks are providing mortgage for properties in International City, agents say mortgage availability is handled on a case-by-case basis depending on the profile of the applicant. 

http://www.emirates247.com/property...elling-below-launch-price-2010-08-12-1.278035


----------



## agod

Dubai_Steve said:


> Standard Chartered Bank very positive about growth over the mid-term for UAEEven though the debt level remains high and the property market has corrected itself, the Standard Chartered Bank reported that Dubai still leads in the UAE’s non-oil sector growth.Dubai has three strong areas at its core, namely trade, tourism and services that have remained strong throughout the recent crisis.* The bank’s special report noted that Dubai has diversity that will help to generate growth in the economic times ahead.Specifically logistics, finances, hospitality and retail were named by the report and it also noted that although the emirate is dealing with challenging times, this diversity lands it in a positive place over the medium to long term forecast.Right now over 98 per cent of the economy in Dubai is not based in oil.* Since oil reserves are projected to approach depletion over the next 20 years Dubai has made significant investments to diversify their economy.Dubai currently holds the third largest spot in the global re-exporting industry, just behind Singapore and Hong Kong.* Almost 40 per cent of the GDP in the emirate is trade related, and services account for over 25 per cent of the economy.Figures from the Dubai Chamber report that growth in exports and re-exports still indicate continuous improvements over the first half of 2010, showing a full 13.7 per cent rise from the first half of 2009.A combination of both exports and re-exports was calculated to be Dh103.2 billion over the opening six months of 2010, as stated by the Dubai Chamber in their semi-annual report.Trade was boosted due to the positive atmosphere and logistical infrastructure present at the ports and airports in Dubai.* Being the hub for the region gave Dubai an opportunity to lead in the area with their free zone models.* First Jebel Ali Free Zone grew to be a hub for trading firms and business, then the Internet and Media City took initiative and became the local headquarters of many international IT and media outlets.** Finally the Dubai International Financial Centre is attracting many as the key financial services firms in the area.With the area’s largest airport, a world class airline and touted as the Gulf Region’s best for hotels, shopping centres and other entertainment, Dubai is focused on tourism.These comments were included in the Shale Gas and Implications report for the GCC, which also noted that the GCC needs to diversify even more.The report mentioned that shale gas as used in the US energy maker was unconventional and higher priced than other natural gases.* And also that other sources being developed will help to reduce the Middle East and Russia’s reliance on natural gas being supplied.Since the GCC economies are still mostly centered in the oil sector, including production, manufacturing and services to the government, this change would drastically impact their economies as well.Over the short and mid-term shale is not a threat to oil exports in the GCC, but oil production has a pronounced cycle of volatility.* And nations with plenty of resources are known to perform below the levels of some with no resources at all.Therefore the oil-dependent economies should diversify to get the risks down.* The report said this is essential and necessary, despite the fact that oil and gas will still have a major role throughout the GCC, those diversified areas and local demographics are driving growth hard.* It noted that diversification and demographics should be combined when planning since the demographics offer a structure for diversifying.* Bahrain and Dubai are local leaders, mostly due to necessity as their oil reserves are so low.The report said that the health of the non-oil sector in Dubai shows that diversifying is critical for economic stability as stronger areas can help to balance out weaker or more volatile ones in a crisis.Dubai is a leader in diversification throughout the whole GCC and certainly in the UAE itself.* Many things are working to maintain the competitiveness of Dubai’s economy, including heavier investments in key infrastructure developments like the latest metro system and more available and affordable housing and accommodations.


Did Sheikh Mo write this? Challenging Times.

A.


----------



## True Blue

I think the problem with IC and Disco Gardens is not the developments themselves, it's the association with Nakheel. Just like the palm, the properties are liable to mountainous maintenance charges in communities that provide very little by may of facilities an ammenities.

Nakheel have become a disaster and a liability to their customers.


----------



## indiinvest

*Dubai gate 2 on hold*

I searched into internet and found that going through court procedures may not bear the fruit , rather may waste the money . Instead we may collectively represent at RERA. The representation in group MAY produce some action.

If interested please contact me on [email protected].


----------



## Pleth

Very strange. My friends are in need of a 2 bedr. apartment. So they posted an ad on Dubizzle "Rental wanted". But no-one - *no-one* contacted them and offered them anything!? 
Where are all the agents? And what are they doing? :bash:


----------



## Porcello

Pleth said:


> Very strange. My friends are in need of a 2 bedr. apartment. So they posted an ad on Dubizzle "Rental wanted". But no-one - *no-one* contacted them and offered them anything!?
> Where are all the agents? And what are they doing? :bash:


It depends on what rental he stated... if it's too low nobody will contact him.


----------



## AltinD

People overestimate the power of Dubizzle


----------



## 234sale

AltinD said:


> People overestimate the power of Dubizzle


+1, 

great yard stick, but we do in meters as well..


----------



## Imre

Pleth said:


> Very strange. My friends are in need of a 2 bedr. apartment. So they posted an ad on Dubizzle "Rental wanted". But no-one - *no-one* contacted them and offered them anything!?
> Where are all the agents? And what are they doing? :bash:


why need the rental wanted section?

There is a searching system , 2 b/r and got this:*Search Results: 4919*

If its not enough , probably no one can help..

:lol:


http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...__gte=Price+from&price__lte=Price+to&x=23&y=7

Expatriates.com, gulfnews etc also have thousands of adverts.


----------



## 234sale

Put and add in the spinneys in your area..:0)


----------



## Winded

*Mediators*

Thanks for the warning guys.

The company asking for 13 000 AED up front are http://www.ace-advocates.com ACE legal assist. After what has been written here Im not going to be giving anyone that sort of money on the 'no guarantee' attempt to get my money back.


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> I think the problem with IC and Disco Gardens is not the developments themselves, it's the association with Nakheel. Just like the palm, the properties are liable to mountainous maintenance charges in communities that provide very little by may of facilities an ammenities.
> 
> Nakheel have become a disaster and a liability to their customers.


very well said.

It is now DESPITE of Nakheel that you cover your costs.

Liability 100%


----------



## 234sale

Expat did a runner sale....house of furniture must go. 7-9 Tue evening 
http://dubai.dubizzle.com/classifie...entire-house-of-furniture-must-sell-in-one-e/


----------



## Porcello

234sale said:


> Expat did a runner sale....house of furniture must go. 7-9 Tue evening
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/classifie...entire-house-of-furniture-must-sell-in-one-e/


"Runner sale" !!! Brilliant!


----------



## True Blue

^^Someone's going to come back to Dubai after their escape ramadan holiday and find out they have been cleaned out!!:laugh:


----------



## AltinD

True Blue said:


> ^^Someone's going to come back to Dubai after their escape ramadan holiday and find out they have been cleaned out!!:laugh:


Landlords are eviiiiiiil! hno:


----------



## agod

In Today's National, I mange to open my big mouth again. Al

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100814/BUSINESS/708149908/1138


----------



## Morrismarina

Good work Alan, I'm sure all homeowners in Dubai appreciate this, keep it up. Man on a mission. :banana:


----------



## agod

I am talking the reporter into a article on Urbanisation, and top of my agenda, is a park, on the plot in front of The Torch.

A.


----------



## DXBQuantum

Nice work Alan, although no more disco  

Keep up the pressure, things can only get better

:cheers:


----------



## MOAF

agod said:


> In Today's National, I mange to open my big mouth again. Al
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100814/BUSINESS/708149908/1138


fantastic work AL, keep it up


----------



## True Blue

agod said:


> I am talking the reporter into a article on Urbanisation, and top of my agenda, is a park, on the plot in front of The Torch.
> 
> A.


Not sure the owner of that plot would be happy about that. It would make more sense to complete the open spaces designated around the marina and the park infront of The Jewels considering they already have a design.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Torch front plot is supposed to be designated for Marina Arcade extension, no reason that a small park/green area and marina front restaurants could not be incorporated around that to make it attractive for people to visit the marina arcade mall/leisure centre extension. In the meantime probably will be a car park but could use some trees around that.


----------



## bucobor

*Good*



agod said:


> In Today's National, I mange to open my big mouth again. Al
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100814/BUSINESS/708149908/1138


Good article, just to confirm my question if one can trust those strata companies who worked with the developer and even went on the news to support the developers....for the last two or three years......:nuts:
They are the same companies who used to charge 20 and 30, today they talk about transperancy.... duhhhhh.... dumdum.....

:bash:


----------



## agod

That's why we are going with Strata Global, because they have been around for 25 years, in Australia, and other parts of the World, and have many satisfied clients already.

A.


----------



## noir-dresses

http://www.emirates247.com/property...-hit-abu-dhabi-developers-2010-08-16-1.279757

How much of this do you think is due to the visa issue, and people just having bad experiences with developer's in the UAE ?

I just can't see Abu Dhabi making a realestate boom after what happened in Dubai.


----------



## 234sale

Would expect conditions in Abu Dhabi being adverse to Dubai


----------



## bizzybonita

More info about Islamic Bank system !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GsdxJJ3mo8&NR=1


----------



## bucobor

agod said:


> That's why we are going with Strata Global, because they have been around for 25 years, in Australia, and other parts of the World, and have many satisfied clients already.
> 
> A.


Good Luck dude.... :lol:
same impression we had before hiring them..... :banana:
reality speaks differently.....hno:

read the laws and understand what any management company has to do.....


----------



## agod

okay, why dont you pm me.

A


----------



## speculator

bizzybonita said:


> More info about Islamic Bank system !
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GsdxJJ3mo8&NR=1



Might as well be in Chinese.


----------



## bizzybonita

*Finally some good news*

No new housing fee, clarifies Dubai Municipality

Civic body denies rumours of new fees for people living in the emirate.

By WAM

Published Monday, August 16, 2010













Dubai Municipality (DM) has denied rumours which suggested that the authority has imposed new fees on people living in the emirate, including residents and citizens.
The municipality dismissed the rumours saying that there is no truth in it.

DM clarified that the housing fee had been levied on all non-citizen residents in the emirate since 1962, and that the municipality had recently launched an integrated e-transfer system for payment of fees through the invoice issued by Dubai Electricity and Water Authority (Dewa).

Earlier, the fee was to be paid at the time of the renewal of tenancy contracts or trading licences at the Department of Economy.

DM explained that the housing fee is calculated on the basis of five per cent of the rental value of the units leased or owned by non-citizens and is levied against services provided by the municipality.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...rifies-dubai-municipality-2010-08-16-1.279962


----------



## Guest

Hi - Re Lakeside, I have received a letter from Damac asking for payment of 1000 AED for registration of unit in the interim real estate register Oqood. Has anyone else received similar demand and how would you advise us to respond. Thanks


----------



## 234sale

Read the oqood thread,,

the fee is only 295aed from RERA, paid for by the developer.


----------



## Nataelchibek

*best option*

after reading the posts in the forum i decided to get of the contract and try to get my money back... does anyone know what is the procedure for doing this and who i could contact for help in this area???


----------



## noir-dresses

KompanyC said:


> *Info please*
> 
> Maintenance was due on my empty unit in May.Did not pay.Have been sent a reminder in June but still havent paid.Since then no more reminders.
> Is there some way they haven't realised I haven't paid so will not chase me for the money?Should I just wait to see what happens or will I get a fine?
> Thanks


On entering the UAE at airport you will be told to follow some person to a room. They will arrest you, and most likely get six month's jail if you are lucky. Will not let you leave the country untill you pay your bill's, and a shit load of fine's. :nuts:


----------



## noir-dresses

http://gulfnews.com/news/region/iran/israel-has-eight-days-to-hit-iran-nuclear-site-bolton-1.669752

Could this really happen, and what if it does ????


----------



## 234sale

^^ Iraq war was more significant,, no change...

Keep calm, carry on...................


----------



## 234sale

KompanyC said:


> *Info please*
> 
> Maintenance was due on my empty unit in May.Did not pay.Have been sent a reminder in June but still havent paid.Since then no more reminders.
> Is there some way they haven't realised I haven't paid so will not chase me for the money?Should I just wait to see what happens or will I get a fine?
> Thanks


Officially you should pay...

But today, collection of S/C fees is difficult until strata law is implemendent.


----------



## 234sale

Morrismarina said:


> What is lamership ?? (Can't find it in any dictionary) :dunno:


it was left over from krazy.. lamership isn't in the dictionary, but I expect he meant layman. (someone who is not a professional person)

If you dont understand the general idea behind the rule I can explain it fully to you..


----------



## 234sale

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/b6b07228-ab21-11df-9e6b-00144feabdc0.html


> Some countries – Spain, Ireland, Dubai – saw a housing bubble. In these countries a large part of market activity was accounted for by buyers who saw houses as attractive speculations rather than places to live. They expect to sell on the houses in a short time to someone else, or to realise cash by refinancing purchases on the back of ever rising house prices. With house builders anxious to get in on the act themselves a construction boom followed. In these markets, the bursting of the bubble has left a continuing oversupply of property and there can be no sustained revival until that backlog has been worked off. Every appearance of recovery will result in speculators and financiers unloading their holdings.


----------



## Morrismarina

234sale said:


> it was left over from krazy.. lamership isn't in the dictionary, but I expect he meant layman. (someone who is not a professional person)
> 
> If you dont understand the general idea behind the rule I can explain it fully to you..


Yes can you explain it to me please.


----------



## 234sale

The idea behind the rule is for people not to get into disputes, then name calling, that start fights. These battles never have any victors, the escalation of abuse can even go as far as being verbally agreesive.

It's something that isn't good and doesn't add any value to the content on here.

The layman remark is do do with keeping things as professional as we can, within reason.

You are right about lamership, it wasn't in any dictionary.


----------



## Morrismarina

Many thanks, but what does *agreesive *mean ? I also cannot find it any dictionary. (I'm getting very confused with all these words I've never heard of before. :weird: ).


----------



## diku

Morrismarina said:


> Many thanks, but what does *agreesive *mean ? I also cannot find it any dictionary. (I'm getting very confused with all these words I've never heard of before. :weird: ).


 May be Aggressive


----------



## 234sale

^^ Correct Assumption



Morrismarina said:


> Many thanks, but what does *agreesive *mean ? I also cannot find it any dictionary. (I'm getting very confused with all these words I've never heard of before. :weird: ).


Any impending elucidation, shall satisfy your vocabulary.


----------



## Flintbug

My point above was more associated with the way people happily give away their hard earned money without reading their contracts.

I agree that paying for good maintenance of your own building makes sense. However every dodgy sales guy in Dubai seems to have a list of owners whereas the owners themselves cannot make contact with each other to get organised properly. 

My contract for maintenance is clearly with the Owners Association and not with the developer. I have no desire to hand any further money to the developer that is not clearly covered by my contractual commitments. It is appalling how the developers in Dubai are allowed to weave a web of limited companies that allows them to deceive a rather naive RERA.


----------



## noir-dresses

Better a diamond with a flaw, then a pebble with out.


----------



## True Blue

My point was that people have a duty to pay their dues. Even if they do not agree with the charges they should pay what they consider to be fair and reasonable and argue the rest. Non paying owners are free loaders in my opinion and living off the people who are paying their maintenance money.

You can argue all day about the technicalities of who is legaly entitled to receive the payment or if you have not been sent ten reminders (all of which incur more cost) but someone has to pay the security guards wages, the cleaners and the utility bills for the common areas. It's called protecting your assets.

I would rather have my building manager concentrating on managing the building than wasting time chasing non paying freeloaders.


----------



## Flintbug

But if you pay the wrong people you mat have to pay yet again to the contract


----------



## noir-dresses

When the OA in our building took over the building's management a month ago it was a mess, and the developer wasn't very helpfull from what I heard.

We got an interim 6 AED/ft to pay, RERA approved just to keep the building functioning properly untill they figure out the new budget. I made sure I payed that ASAP cause TB is rite, you have to keep your building / investment in good shape.


----------



## Guest

Have read the Oqood thread and written to Damac accordingly. Damac have come back to say "Customer Registration Charge is AED1000/- and it is mandatory from Dubai Land Department". How would you advise please?


----------



## liwanowner

yesramkumar/everyone else,

I am an investor in R004. I sent Mazaya an email asking for updates this week (they sometimes randomly stop sending those PDF updates) and they replied with a RERA approved status of it being at 43% at the end of June, while reiterating that the project would indeed meet its deadline of Q4 2010.

Now here's where it gets interesting. According to the April update I have, R004 was at 38% - this means that in 2 months, the project has made a 5% progress, but what Mazaya is claiming, quite senselessly, is that the project will make a mammoth 50%+ progress in the next 6 months!

I've asked them if they actually expect me to believe this and also how I will, as an investor, be compensated if the project does not meet the conditions set forth in the SPA. So far, nothing but silence (but of course...).

Has anyone else had any more sensible updates from them? How about owners of R069 and R068, which has made more considerable progress.

Come on, there must be someone here who still kept these apartments and did not sell them off at the first sign of trouble! :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Anyone have any advice on whether to buy AED with UK pounds now or next week?*

----------------------------

There has been a little bit more price action in the pound/dollar pair than what we have seen in the euro, so far today. 

However, there has yet to be any solid test of either the upper or lower boundary of last week’s range. With no major data out of the US or the UK today, investors seem content to trade in and out on a short term basis with no solid conviction toward a move either way. There is a plethora of data being released later in the week, including GDP figures for both Britain and the US on Friday. With so much uncertainty over what the upcoming economic data could reveal, today may be a natural time for investors to take a pause and run through potential scenarios that could develop as the week unfolds. Since August 12th, sterling and the greenback have traded between about 1.5475 on the support side and 1.5700 on the resistance side. The remaining information yet to be released this week though, could definitely be an impetus to see a major break out of this channel in one direction or the other


----------



## ollitrade

you've given the answer yourself. When you wanna just buy some AED for your living here in uae then buy now, why wait? as you mentioned there is no clear trend.

from a *traders* point of view: wait for the break out, stop in the market, place a trailing stop.

o.


----------



## martin200

I asked the question on this subject in a recent meeting with The First Group. Each project has its different name, effectively its own limited company, so if something happened to TFG, then each individually setup projects would be unaffected and continue onwards. Happens in the UK when you buy off plan, apparently...


----------



## unknownpleasures

martin200 said:


> I asked the question on this subject in a recent meeting with The First Group. Each project has its different name, effectively its own limited company, so if something happened to TFG, then each individually setup projects would be unaffected and continue onwards. Happens in the UK when you buy off plan, apparently...


Do you know why they are advertised through the First Group and not under the various limited companies when sold as "off plan"? For example the First group advertised the Bridge, the Diamond, the Matrix, The Spririt and there's the Orchid from memory from viewing their website - are you saying that the First Group will never be responsible for any of them should something happen?

Did they explain exactly who is then in charge of each project and who is ultimately responsible?

Does it only happen in the UK?

Just curious, I have no interest in any of them.


----------



## 3smiles1day

Spurs said:


> If you choose to go with the above scheme does Aristocrat transfer you out of royal estates.... if so Aristocrat are giving you permission to leave their project and not pay them the outstanding amount on their project???


You are right SPURS! I was in Dubai from Aug 5 to Aug 11 and I tried to arrange for a meeting with KEN & SMITH on their proposed Real Estate Recovery Schemes. 

2 weeks before this trip, I made contact with the company via their website and a Mr. Jeff Rutter called me. I emailed him and asked him those questions with regard to Aristocrat giving permission to leave the project. I also informed him of my trip to Dubai and that we should meet at his office. 

Well, you guessed it. He did not reply my email nor did he answer his mobile when I called him a dozen times from Dubai. I called the company and they conveniently said that he had left the company. I was referred to Edward when I requested to speak with the staff who has taken over his duties. Edward said he will call me back before the end of that day. He never did. I reckoned it was not worth my time to call them again. 

In conclusion, I opined it was a scam and an entrapment to get us to purchase another property from Ken & Smith without any exit strategy for the buyers to get out of their contracts with Aristocrat. At the end of the day, Ken & Smith gets the commission from the developer for the property we purchase and we are still stuck with Aristocrat. :bash: :nuts:


----------



## bizzybonita

*Dubai realty sector to be the first to recover from downturn impact*

Dubai's real estate sector will top all the other sectors that are likely to recover from the downturn, which had left a major impact on most economic sectors in the Gulf region, said the Nakheel Chairman.

According to Ali Rashid Lootah, the property sector in the emirate is in a state of stability when it comes to rents and property prices, and this makes it more attractive for investors and dealers.

The developments happening in the Dubai realty sector over the past two years also have a major role in re-structuring the sector, he said.

The property market in Dubai has strong pillars of support that actually helps the sector to remain on the top of all other sectors, and this will help in kick-starting the gradual recovery process. Other major factors that are conducive to property market are the advanced infrastructure and investment environment in the emirate. The current stage is, only a transitional phase which will open doors for a new period in this market, he explained.

Lootah expects a strong "wave" of demand for properties in Dubai, very soon. His expectations are based on the growth of population in Dubai over the past couple of months, which is reflected by the surge in domestic power and water consumption, in comparison to the same period last year.


----------



## Mistermark

bizzybonita said:


> *Dubai realty sector to be the first to recover from downturn impact*
> 
> Dubai's real estate sector will top all the other sectors that are likely to recover from the downturn, which had left a major impact on most economic sectors in the Gulf region, said the Nakheel Chairman.
> 
> According to Ali Rashid Lootah, the property sector in the emirate is in a state of stability when it comes to rents and property prices, and this makes it more attractive for investors and dealers.
> 
> The developments happening in the Dubai realty sector over the past two years also have a major role in re-structuring the sector, he said.
> 
> The property market in Dubai has strong pillars of support that actually helps the sector to remain on the top of all other sectors, and this will help in kick-starting the gradual recovery process. Other major factors that are conducive to property market are the advanced infrastructure and investment environment in the emirate. The current stage is, only a transitional phase which will open doors for a new period in this market, he explained.
> 
> Lootah expects a strong "wave" of demand for properties in Dubai, very soon. His expectations are based on the growth of population in Dubai over the past couple of months, which is reflected by the surge in domestic power and water consumption, in comparison to the same period last year.


Sadly, there wasn't space for the report to include another comment from Nakheel Chairman Mr Ali Rashid Lootah, namely: "I firmly believe that there are leprechauns living at the end of my garden".


----------



## True Blue

^^Quite amazing statement from the guy in charge of financialy the worst run developer in the region. A company that has demonstrated that it has no clue about economic management.


----------



## Beppe786

should have bought last week is went up to around 1.60 to £1



Dubai_Steve said:


> *Anyone have any advice on whether to buy AED with UK pounds now or next week?*
> 
> ----------------------------
> 
> There has been a little bit more price action in the pound/dollar pair than what we have seen in the euro, so far today.
> 
> However, there has yet to be any solid test of either the upper or lower boundary of last week’s range. With no major data out of the US or the UK today, investors seem content to trade in and out on a short term basis with no solid conviction toward a move either way. There is a plethora of data being released later in the week, including GDP figures for both Britain and the US on Friday. With so much uncertainty over what the upcoming economic data could reveal, today may be a natural time for investors to take a pause and run through potential scenarios that could develop as the week unfolds. Since August 12th, sterling and the greenback have traded between about 1.5475 on the support side and 1.5700 on the resistance side. The remaining information yet to be released this week though, could definitely be an impetus to see a major break out of this channel in one direction or the other


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Thanks for the advice, unfortunately have not worked out how to do time travel back in time yet.


----------



## Bad

i contacted them and they are waiting FOR RERA CEO decision for NEW ACTION PLAN FOR TERMINATING THE RED GROUP .... HE IS IN HOLIDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Beppe786

good luck working out the whats gonna happen.. its all over the place.. you might need a time machine for that aswell


----------



## martin200

I think it just means that if TFG went bankrupt for instance, that these projects could not be seized by creditors to pay off debt.


----------



## Josau

bizzybonita said:


> *Dubai realty sector to be the first to recover from downturn impact*
> 
> Dubai's real estate sector will top all the other sectors that are likely to recover from the downturn, which had left a major impact on most economic sectors in the Gulf region, said the Nakheel Chairman.
> 
> According to Ali Rashid Lootah, the property sector in the emirate is in a state of stability when it comes to rents and property prices, and this makes it more attractive for investors and dealers.
> 
> The developments happening in the Dubai realty sector over the past two years also have a major role in re-structuring the sector, he said.
> 
> The property market in Dubai has strong pillars of support that actually helps the sector to remain on the top of all other sectors, and this will help in kick-starting the gradual recovery process. Other major factors that are conducive to property market are the advanced infrastructure and investment environment in the emirate. The current stage is, only a transitional phase which will open doors for a new period in this market, he explained.
> 
> Lootah expects a strong "wave" of demand for properties in Dubai, very soon. His expectations are based on the growth of population in Dubai over the past couple of months, which is reflected by the surge in domestic power and water consumption, in comparison to the same period last year.


^^The growth in population is not a white collar one and that's the segment of the population, that has to grow in order fill up the Palm, the Marina and JLT. No unskilled worker will live in a Nakheel villa on the Palm. If he is serious in his comments, it's a total misconception of the situation. It's people like these, which advised Sheikh Mo to give the green light to start all of these projects instead of doing one and do it real good.


----------



## Weasel09

BAD...why the hell are Wind waiting for RERA to come back off their holidays as surely Wind decide what to do with investors etc not RERA and if there is a RED group have they be contacted by WInd.

WSP, again shocking service, posting a few crappy pics rather than maybe taking the opportunity to comment on the RERA inspection report that says Wind 1 is on Hold....I URGE you to comment on this as a matter of URGENCY as to maybe give investors some information rather than a couple of stupid pics which may have been taken a few months back.

Is there anyone at all in Dubai who can verify what is going on at these sites, I suspected that work was slow due to Ramadam and that no one really works at the moment yet WSP posts pictures of workers...very very suspect if you ask me


----------



## 234sale

It's the usual, make a positive comment story. 

still no loans for overseas investors, limited to 2 mortgages per investor with residency visa.
still a high interest rate ,
still a high exchange rate bringing money in compaired to the peaks or norm of last 5 years, 
still people uncertain of their jobs,
still more supply comming on line,
still no visa,
still no bankrupcy law,

Unless your aware of a specific event to cause a wave, the sea will stay calm.. 

How about

Issue 1 year visa's at 5,000 AED, maybe with a bond of 20,000 held until visa cancelled. 
Reduce lending rate by 2% to max of 6%
Control the supply, officially put projects on hold / cancelled.
Bring in Bankrupcy law for individuals and companies.


----------



## skdubai

^^or better yet, let the market complete its cycle... and flush the crap out of the system... 

The govt. keeps trying to save the zombies while leaving the economy in the dumps!!! simple rule of economics; leave it alone and it will sort itself out... eventually!!!

I say do the last one and let the remaining take care of itself.


----------



## DXBQuantum

I say BUY BUY BUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 234sale

DXBQuantum said:


> I say BUY BUY BUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


True, but for many its HOW, HOW, HOW..

Cash is King...

I spoke to a leading mortgage broker, market is still tied up due to too many trapped in mortgages on property with 2008 prices.

You can't just hand back the keys here, like the UK.


----------



## DXBQuantum

234sale said:


> True, but for many its HOW, HOW, HOW..
> 
> Cash is King...
> 
> I spoke to a leading mortgage broker, market is still tied up due to too many trapped in mortgages on property with 2008 prices.
> 
> You can't just hand back the keys here, like the UK.


lol, I think its also a case of WHY WHY WHY! they have made such a muck up of things, no one has any trust anymore. 

Bankruptcy law will be a great step in the right direction but they have so much work to do. They can start by sorting out their government departments which are a joke, regardless of Ramadan. 

They don't talk to each other, someone quotes law 24 of 2008 while the other says no its 34 of 2006. 

A lot of work to do...... 

:cheers:


----------



## Weasel09

WSP thanks for the comment but can I ask why progress has slowed and if your honest on Wind 1 halted not actually slowed down, surely you are progressing no matter what any decisions are going to be made, surely as a company you have budgeted way and beyond the stage you are currently at and why is RERA deciding on a RED group or what is it you are hoping to get from RERA, answers would be very grateful


----------



## Porcello

Weasel09 said:


> WSP thanks for the comment but can I ask why progress has slowed and if your honest on Wind 1 halted not actually slowed down, surely you are progressing no matter what any decisions are going to be made, surely as a company you have budgeted way and beyond the stage you are currently at and why is RERA deciding on a RED group or what is it you are hoping to get from RERA, answers would be very grateful


Very simple. they have no money.

Land department authorization is not required anymore by law, so, if they want, they can just send cancellation notices to non payers.

However, cancellations will not bring any benefit to the construction progress since there is no way that anyone would buy the repossessed unit unless, of course, are sold way below market value (which is zero now, anyway).

The only way to get the project moving is a good capital injection which obviously Wind cannot provide.


----------



## abf

All the comments with due respect are mere speculations and Wind will not say what the planning is... so not one is any wiser except Wind...if there is any shred of honesty and goodness they should take the investors out of their misery


----------



## Property Queen

Four points to give clarity:

(1) It has been a year without a floor being cast. The project is on hold.

(2) Why do Wind need to cancel the Red Group before building a floor every 2 months? A half price flat sale will not generate enough money...they need a big loan.

(3) They have no money. They do not wish to give investors money back and nobody is that stupid as to purchase a flat from them.

(4) I saw a banner above this thread for refund and dispute resolution and another for upto 50% off JLT apartments. Now that is very telling of the situation.


----------



## AltinD

DXBQuantum said:


> They don't talk to each other, someone quotes law 24 of 2008 while the other says no its 34 of 2006.


A friend of mine after two years studying in France approached the Government offices and applied for citizenship. 

The official cited the Law X stating that a person must live for at least 4 (or 5) years legally in the country before applying. My friend told him: 'Attendre s'il vous plaît ...', according to the Law Y, if you're currently doing a master at a reputable University, you can apply after just 2. 

Needless to say, his application got accepted and he got the citizenship in due time :lol:


----------



## dubaimat

AltinD said:


> *A friend of mine after two years studying in France approached the Government offices and applied for citizenship. *
> 
> The official cited the Law X stating that a person must live for at least 4 (or 5) years legally in the country before applying. My friend told him: '*Attendre s'il vous plaît* ...', according to the Law Y, if you're currently doing a master at a reputable University, you can apply after just 2.
> 
> Needless to say, his application got accepted and he got the citizenship in due time :lol:


Attendez s'il vous plaît, this must be one of the reasons why so many under-qualified people are getting government jobs, don't you think so? :cheers:


----------



## cayman1

DXBQuantum said:


> Its a good way of getting out.. Business Bay will never be what you want it to be.
> 
> The only thing is that you need to inject new capital into those recovery schemes, I have a couple of things off plan but exposure is low... I have been offered these schemes as well, which im thinking about but they said they will give me something in Silicon Oasis? - Do I want to have something there?
> 
> Its probably better to put money into that, then put it into lawyers that will get no where??


I have been offered in DSO too whith 20% of reduction , but in months threre will be many other properties


----------



## cayman1

234sale said:


> Real estate recovery schemes. Ask a lawyer about the specifics, they will tell you of the risks. Nothing in Dubai is certain.
> 
> Cayman1, didn't you purchase around 1400aed sqft for NL and 1000 for Qsami?
> 
> Think you've paid the 30% and 50% respectively.
> 
> You're only option is either to walk away, try your luck at a recovery scheme, consolidate, sell or sit on your hands.
> 
> Problem for ACI, is they cannot raise any capital.
> 
> My advice is actually to sit on your hands for longer, maybe another 5 years.
> These developments are actually on the interim register, so maybe something can happen in a positive way for all in the future.
> I have no quick solutions, sorry.
> 
> I’m going to be assisting on a Wings of Arabia development for an investor.
> Will know more after I have done this.


I have only Sami T. for 1000 aes sqft 50% paid ,to sell very low price , what is interim register ?


----------



## cayman1

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
(Free-Press-Release.com) August 29, 2010 --
August 29, 2010

Following the successful launch by Smith and Ken, Dubai’s leading real estate agency, of their Real Estate Recovery Scheme, CEO Benjamin J Smith has announced that the response has been incredible with over 1,500 enquiries within a week of the launch.

Smith stated: “Whilst we planned to handle a large number of enquiries, this has pleasantly surprised us. Already we have witnessed 27 successful transactions within the first four weeks. There’s nothing more pleasing when you can solve your investor’s problems."

The Real Estate Recovery Scheme Real was set up to aid investors who have lost their money and life's savings on off-plan property investments in the UAE. Sensing the desperation in the situation and the need for a speedy revitalization, Smith and Ken's Real Estate Recovery Scheme (RERS) immediately helps investors recover the monetary value of their real estate investments through a like for- like credit note to the value of what they have already paid against one of Smith & Ken's properties.

It also means that instead of waiting for a building to be completed, those in the scheme can choose a new property, and once you’ve done that, we deduct the amount you’ve already paid from your new apartment, office space or plot of land.

Based on the initial response of the scheme, Smith stated: "I now intend to extend the scheme until all our customers have found a solution, so it’s very much a busy summer for Smith & Ken. It’s great our innovative ideas and strategies have solved so many people’s failed property investments.

“The most important thing was to find a solution, rather than just sit and wait, and we have done that so our focus is now ensuring that anyone who has lost money in an off plan project we sit down with them and try to find a way to re-align the investments to achieving the target they intended originally".


----------



## Viv

I have been offered these schemes as well, which im thinking about but they said they will give me something in Silicon Oasis? - Do I want to have something there?

DXBQuantum - what reservations do you have about Silicon Oasis? I ask because I too may be offered a swap from a property in Ajman to DSO.


----------



## cddubois

Well - it's official that MED will not honor their commitment for the 50% financing that we were approved for. I like their holding us accountable yet they do not hold themselves to the same.....

_We thank you for the email. 

We regret to inform that there will not be finance due to losses incurred by the banks in Dubai. We hope you understand the ground realities and accept that the banks have lost a lot of money that was exposed in Mega Real Estate projects by master developers in Dubai and have cut down on the retail financing of most if not all developments. 

We request you to arrange payment as per the Sales and Purchase agreement in the contract. The mortgage processing fee will be credited to you account. 

Should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us. _


----------



## FARIBA

sportslover said:


> Why dont u tell them this is not accepatable to u and transfer your investment in to ct series............... Chances are they might be finish bit earlier..


I already have told them how i feel do you think they cared? and as far as switching i asked them month's ago if i can change to ct1 they said they don't have any availabe even tho i don't like that location.

i liked the location of ct4 but at this point is hopeless.


----------



## dubinv

I never paid for housing fees for my apartment on the marina and my tenant doesn't pays, is it normal?


----------



## DXBQuantum

I'm not sure, it seems a bit out of the way, but at the end of the day its better then Ajman! and its Built!!

Plus they have some big companies in DSO for chip manufacturing e.t.c so rental should not be a problem.


----------



## DXBQuantum

dubinv said:


> I never paid for housing fees for my apartment on the marina and my tenant doesn't pays, is it normal?


Housing fee is applicable for everyone now, you used to be able to get away with but its on every new connection now. 

Tenant needs to pay it if the property is rented its 5% of the contract amount paid monthly on the bill.


----------



## 234sale

dubinv said:


> I never paid for housing fees for my apartment on the marina and my tenant doesn't pays, is it normal?


Who ever the DEWA account is in the Name of, usually the tenant. 

Also no DEWA account, no fees.


----------



## 234sale

cayman1 said:


> I have only Sami T. for 1000 aes sqft 50% paid ,to sell very low price , what is interim register ?


Interim Register, is the developer / rera system for unit registration.

It costs 295 AED for a developer to register the unit onto the oqood system.










You need to check with RERA what you can do, as maybe money in Escrow with National Bank of Dubai.


----------



## 234sale

As to question relating to Final Payments for uncompleted Buildings....


If I remember correctly, many didn't accept the condition of the property in relationship to Executive Towers. Mainly because they couldn't habitat their unit.

Eventually Dubai Properties issued some keys so furniture could be moved in, but still no district cooling on the building.

I think it’s very hard to force a customer to pay the final instalment, as you would still have to make a demand through RERA which would take 30days.

If you then argue at RERA with the developer that the building isn't ready for handover, this date can be extended.

Any thoughts, I am now researching the answer through RERA as well, but this takes some time.


Please any one who has gone through a handover recently, give some indication.


----------



## Du(mum)bai

234sale said:


> As to question relating to Final Payments for uncompleted Buildings....
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly, many didn't accept the condition of the property in relationship to Executive Towers. Mainly because they couldn't habitat their unit.
> 
> Eventually Dubai Properties issued some keys so furniture could be moved in, but still no district cooling on the building.
> 
> I think it’s very hard to force a customer to pay the final instalment, as you would still have to make a demand through RERA which would take 30days.
> 
> If you then argue at RERA with the developer that the building isn't ready for handover, this date can be extended.
> 
> Any thoughts, I am now researching the answer through RERA as well, but this takes some time.
> 
> 
> Please any one who has gone through a handover recently, give some indication.




234Sale
Can you please advice, w r t Churchill residence is it advisable to release the final payment. I need to know once we release the final payment, is the apartments ready to move in or rentable.
Please advise


----------



## DXBQuantum

I think Churchill is almost ready, correct me if I'm wrong... 

I'm sure I have seen advertisements for apartments there, some are already handed over..

More over supply!!!!!!!


----------



## 234sale

234sale said:


> As to question relating to Final Payments for uncompleted Buildings....
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly, many didn't accept the condition of the property in relationship to Executive Towers. Mainly because they couldn't habitat their unit.
> 
> Eventually Dubai Properties issued some keys so furniture could be moved in, but still no district cooling on the building.
> 
> I think it’s very hard to force a customer to pay the final instalment, as you would still have to make a demand through RERA which would take 30days.
> 
> If you then argue at RERA with the developer that the building isn't ready for handover, this date can be extended.
> 
> Any thoughts, I am now researching the answer through RERA as well, but this takes some time.
> 
> 
> Please any one who has gone through a handover recently, give some indication.







Du(mum)bai said:


> 234Sale
> Can you please advice, w r t Churchill residence is it advisable to release the final payment. I need to know once we release the final payment, is the apartments ready to move in or rentable.
> Please advise



Are you going to get the keys...

Have you done the final snagging..

I don't think they can cancel, even if they could they would have to give 30 days notice. If you start a legal challenge they are stuck with your unit until the case completes.

No district cooling is available as far as I know, I haven't seen a temporary one.

I do not expect you can live here, at least for 6 months.

I would try and delay any payment, or negioate a discount for the final installment, also the use as PDC as payment can be accepted to get you a little more delay.

Otherwise I can recomend a laywer at 1250 AED an hour, or call in to the Dubai Eye 103.8 show on Sunday at 12, for free legal advice.

I cannot tell you exactly what to do, as my opinion is only that,,, a opinion



What I hope for is other users to tell us of recent experiance..


----------



## 234sale

DXBQuantum said:


> I think Churchill is almost ready, correct me if I'm wrong...
> 
> I'm sure I have seen advertisements for apartments there, some are already handed over..
> 
> More over supply!!!!!!!


Yep, 300 or so units

West Wharf, U-Bora, Index and a couple of Locally owned projects in the next 6 months also..


----------



## 234sale

scater said:


> Workers live in filth after employer absconds
> With the utilities cut off for the third week running, the workers, many of whom are fasting, are forced to live in the heat and bad sanitary conditions, with the toilets piled with waste, and garbage scattered around their dwellings.
> 
> Their employer, the chairman of Dubai-based Saqr Engineering and Contracting Company, is believed to have absconded, leaving workers from India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and the Philippines stranded without pay in the UAE. Gulf News visited the office of Saqr Engineering and Contracting Company, which was closed.
> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/employment/workers-live-in-filth-after-employer-absconds-1.675435


Where contractors on ACI - QS, NL, MS tower


----------



## cayman1

Greetings from ACI!

I received today , seems saqer eng. is close , go out of business 

Apologies for the delay, but we have been moving out of our old office to a new location and we haven t been able to correspond with our clients in proper manner due to that reason. Our new office location map and new telephone lines are already updated on our website www.aci-dubai.net



Further to your request below in regards to your investment in Q-Sami Tower kindly note the following:

Our contractor had gone out of business recently and our Management Team are currently handling back and forth meetings with RERA in order to deal with the legality issues raised from the same matter.

We are currently looking into the option of finding and appointing a new contractor in order to proceed with the construction.



Please note that the procedure will require time and effort and we would kindly ask you to bare with us until we made any progress with the authorities.





Thanks & Regards

Customer Service Department

Tel: +971.4.4478950

Fax: +971.4.4478948

Email: [email protected]

Website: http://www.acigroup.ae


----------



## mateen

*CHURCHILL EXECUTIVE*

I have been receiving threats from the management to make payments, i have recd no written mail from them

they insist they have sent, when i ask them for proof, their reply is 

Dear Sir,

Good day to you.
Sir I would like to confirm to you that we have sent the handover letter to you and I don’t need or have to send you the track number plus it was emailed couple of times and it was received, moreover ,you have been contacted many times to the limit your annoyed from our calls so please note that your payment should be made by now. 


ADVISE !!!! what should i do ??


----------



## 234sale

Handover,,, it's not possible.

I think best to ask for Empower conformation of District Cooling or Temporary plant

Developers such as Damac will be getting them for XL and Business Tower, The corp has a temporary station.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=376838&page=3









^^ Supplied by Empower.

I'm checking with RERA, but forcing final payments without the building being in a liveable condition is a little naughty.


----------



## 234sale

cayman1 said:


> Greetings from ACI!
> 
> I received today , seems saqer eng. is close , go out of business
> http://www.acigroup.ae


Did you read the post a couple above..


----------



## Moneymaker

Has anyone seen or recieved the ammendment to the contract for the Autumn phase of townhouses?

Apparently Ishraqah are offering interest payment compensation if you sign a new ammendment with a later completion date.

If anyone has details of this offer could they post it on here.
Thanks


----------



## vocalis

I am reading with alarm that MED has changed the the status of the developments from Apartment Hotel to Residential.
Is this true?
Does it apply to all developments? I invested in Red Residence.
If true, where did you learn about it as I haven't received any communications from MED (surprise, surprise...)


----------



## dubinv

DXBQuantum said:


> Housing fee is applicable for everyone now, you used to be able to get away with but its on every new connection now.
> 
> Tenant needs to pay it if the property is rented its 5% of the contract amount paid monthly on the bill.


I know that the tenant has to pay but the 5% is not on his invoice so I'm afraid to pay at the end of the contract


----------



## DXBQuantum

If its not on invoice he may have been lucky and got away with it?

That happened to me last year, I never paid it, nothing on final bill either, but this year


----------



## 234sale

I had this in the springs when I first moved in.. When the service charge was introduced, it wasn't back dated.

All you need to instruct a future tenant is if it is introduced, it is their reponsbility.

Many new developments don't yet have HF in the dewa bill as far as I know, maybe this system will be changed.


----------



## True Blue

dubinv said:


> I know that the tenant has to pay but the 5% is not on his invoice so I'm afraid to pay at the end of the contract


As long as the tenant is registered with Dewa it is not your responsibility to pay as you are clearly not using the property. If it is still in your name and you are passing on the bills then it will become your problem.

I think Emirates nationals are exempt from paying housing fees, it only applies to expats.


----------



## shagdash

Springs Type 3 now available for 1.45 m.
http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...hot-hot-deal-3-b-r-s-villa-in-springs-type-3/

Back in Jan/Feb these were no less than 1.9 m (most quoting at a 2-2.1m mark)

This is a 25% drop since then. How much further is this market going to fall?


----------



## jasper1000

*Lawn 4*

I have been informed that they now have NOC for Lawn 4 and construction will start this month


----------



## 234sale

shagdash said:


> Springs Type 3 now available for 1.45 m.
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...hot-hot-deal-3-b-r-s-villa-in-springs-type-3/
> 
> Back in Jan/Feb these were no less than 1.9 m (most quoting at a 2-2.1m mark)
> 
> This is a 25% drop since then. How much further is this market going to fall?


Will be 1.2M by December 2010 I expect.

The issue with the springs according to sources in Emaar is that 30% are still with the orginial buyer. The 3M/E was sold as low as 800,000 AED. So some people are still making a profit.

Same for the Greens, Green Community, Marina as many still have units at OP and can afford just to sell them at the market rate.

Also some of these properies where not built well, so major defects exist. Imagine if we get heavy rain this year....


----------



## dirtyharry1

1,45 ist still too expensive for the shit quality you get there...

Imagine the buidling costs for those villas some years ago... pretty close to nothing.





shagdash said:


> Springs Type 3 now available for 1.45 m.
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...hot-hot-deal-3-b-r-s-villa-in-springs-type-3/
> 
> Back in Jan/Feb these were no less than 1.9 m (most quoting at a 2-2.1m mark)
> 
> This is a 25% drop since then. How much further is this market going to fall?


----------



## 234sale

^^ was around 200 AED sqft, 

Today you can get a villa built around 300 AED sqft.


----------



## chriskearney1

*MED*

I was told by MED that the majority of these buildings will continue as a hotel with certain limited floors as residential. where have you heard the ENTIRE building will be residential?


----------



## sportslover

FARIBA said:


> I already have told them how i feel do you think they cared? and as far as switching i asked them month's ago if i can change to ct1 they said they don't have any availabe even tho i don't like that location.
> 
> i liked the location of ct4 but at this point is hopeless.


have u tried to conatact any good loyer in duabi?


----------



## Adam2008

I have an apartment in R047, I just received a note to pay 20% of the total value after claiming they have finished 40% of the building. I am neither an expert in buildings nor an engineer but looking at the pictures it is obvious that this building is not 40% done. Who will guarantee that we will get the final apartment based on the right specs. Will we have water and electricity. I need legal advise on whether to make the payment or not. does anyone know a good lawyer that can help


----------



## vocalis

chriskearney1 said:


> I was told by MED that the majority of these buildings will continue as a hotel with certain limited floors as residential. where have you heard the ENTIRE building will be residential?


I have seen it mentioned by other members on this forum.
I have contacted MED and will post their reply when I receive it.


----------



## commander1919

interest compensation is not enough, all unit prizes are 50% off.we can not find tenant to live there for 75.000aed for a year.

developer couldnt complete the units and can not complete feb 2011(summer cluster) impossible.

claim all your money back with interest and unite.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Don't think it makes any difference considering the building isn't completed - worry then!


----------



## liwanowner

Hi Adam,

Mazaya Project progress is not determined by them any more, but instead by RERA. If you go to the RERA website and follow the instructions below you will see that R047 is indeed near the 40% mark. What you have to do to verify this is the following:

- Go to the RERA website: http://www.rpdubai.ae
- Click on Projects under "List of Approved"
- Search by Developer Name for Mazaya.

You will find all of their porjects along with a progress status bar on the right, which you can click to view exact/precise status update. As per the site, today's update of your project (R047) stands at what looks like 40 percent. The arrow (orange in your case) means it is "progressing but delayed". That is as far as the status of your project is concerned, which I think is ok.

Now, regarding payment - as per the the RERA approved payment plan for Queue Point/Liwan, the payment will take place in bands of 10% on completion of various stages of the project. The email I received from Mazaya last year stated this as follows:

30% downpayment
10% @ completion of 30%
10% @ completion of 40%
10% @ completion of 50%
10% @ completion of 60%
10% @ completion of 70%
10% @ completion of 80%
10% on Completion.

I assume you've only paid the 30% downpayment and the reason they are requesting you to pay the additional 20% is because they have completed 40% of the project.

Hope this make sense?

In my case I've already paid upto 55% of the project, so they will ask me to pay 5% when the project completes 50% (it is presently at 44%).

Finally, I'd like to propose we (the members on this forum who are owners of property at Liwan) start seriously thinking about the creation of what is known as an "Owners Association". The RERA website also has details about this in a section. Please let us get together and collect our thoughts on this because it is imperative that we pressure Mazaya into completing the project on time and delivering it to us.


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai Marina remains hot favourite for renters and buyers

Abu Dhabi commuters ensure demand fundamentals remain intact.










* Rents and sales prices vary considerably in the Dubai Marina, depending on the quality of the building.

* Image Credit: Silvia Baron



In a situation where the inventory is swelling, prospective house hunters in Dubai appear to have everything going in their favour. On the one hand, prices and rentals are becoming incredibly attractive while on the other, there are plenty of units to choose from in some of the best locations.

When it comes to location, Dubai Marina tops the list of most sought-after developments in Dubai for renters and buyers alike, as per a survey conducted by real estate website propertyfinder.ae. The survey was conducted among 400,000 visitors to the website, 100,000 properties and 200 brokers.

While 17.5 per cent of the people searching for a pad online chose Dubai Marina, 16.1 per cent opted for Jumeirah Lakes Towers (JLT), 13.1 per cent chose Palm Jumeirah, followed by Jumeirah Beach Residence (7.3 per cent) and Arabian Ranches (6.8 per cent). In the rental sector as well, Dubai Marina made its presence felt with 16.7 per cent choosing it as a favoured development. In the rental destinations list, Dubai Marina was followed by JLT (9.9 per cent), Palm Jumeirah (6.7 per cent), Mirdif (5.9 per cent) and Jumeirah (5.9 per cent).

Once popular rental destinations Discovery Gardens and International City continued their downward journey, with only 4.2 per cent and 3.4 per cent showing interest in them, respectively.

The popularity of Dubai Marina is bolstered significantly by demand from Abu Dhabi commuters because the real estate sector in the capital has been set back by shortage of units resulting in high rents, says Jesse Downs, director of research and advisory, Landmark Advisory. Also, "The blend of waterfront location with access to key retail clusters makes the Dubai Marina a popular residential area. The Marina is also an established community, which has created a positive feedback loop, drawing in more demand."

However, despite being the most popular development, rents in Dubai Marina registered a 20 per cent dip, according to the Rental Index published by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency. For a studio in Dubai Marina, rents range from Dh40,000 per annum, a decline of Dh5,000 vis-à-vis the March index, while one-bedroom apartment rents fell by over 20 per cent to Dh55,000.

"At the moment, rent declines are driven by supply growth and weak demand fundamentals. Supply in the Marina, including Jumeirah Beach Residences, has increased approximately 20 per cent this year alone. There is a significant three-year pipeline for the area, which will keep rents from rebounding in the near future," says Downs.

*Supply pipeline of mixed quality*

Quality, however, remains key. Eventually, it will be buildings with better build that will attract attention.

"Based on our assessment of quality, there are relatively few high quality units in Marina and cost-cutting measures put in place by developers in 2009-2010 indicate mixed quality of upcoming supply as well. It's our assessment that the few high quality apartments, which have much lower downside risk, will experience relatively limited volatility and will recover first," says Downs.

"*Sales prices of units in the Dubai Marina range from Dh700 to Dh1,100 per square foot — of course, there may be a few exceptions*," he adds.

With many projects nearing completion and close to handover in Abu Dhabi, it is expected that many people working in Abu Dhabi and living in Dubai will consider moving to the capital. "We do think the upcoming supply deliveries and falling rents in Abu Dhabi will gradually attract commuters back to the capital. Although there is primarily evidence suggesting this is already starting, the trend will probably gain momentum in 2011 and 2012. This will have the greatest impact on areas like Dubai Marina and JLT."

Dubai Marina currently has buildings of all qualities. Rents and sales prices vary considerably, depending on the quality of the building. Downs says the wide variety of quality available in the Marina is clearly reflected in the wide ranges of sales prices and rents. "Prices and rents are a function of supply and demand. As it's a buyers and tenants market now, price and rent trends are driven by individual preferences," she concludes.

*not immune to rent dip*

Rents in Dubai Marina registered a 20 per cent dip, according to the Rental Index published by Rera. "Rent declines are driven by supply growth and weak demand. There is a significant three-year pipeline for the area," says Jesse Downs.

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...hot-favourite-for-renters-and-buyers-1.672066


----------



## unknownpleasures

ilunat said:


> any one heard of these?
> 
> http://www.internationalpropertyresolutions.com/


No...but it sounds like the other lot Smith & Ken and this other lot who were operating under the name of RERA UK...RERA UK has shut up shop!! - SEE HERE http://www.rerauk.com/... leaving a message that reads - 

"Dear Clients,

Please note we, Real Estate Recovery Agency have temporarily suspended our operation due to the rapid changes of the UAE laws and the direct impact it will have on our clients claims against developers.

Until further developments and implementations of UAE property laws, we will not be charging and providing services to our clients.

We hope you find the above satisfactory, should you have any further queries, please direct to the following email address: [email protected]

Management Team."

Didn't work then and it won't work now..people who believe this rubbish are only kidding themselves...if the low can't help then types like this thinking they can are not miracle workers...you only have to read the testimonials to tell you to keep clear...nothing but baseless info 

Not knowing until they start says a lot doesn't it...runs for 18 months, yep I'm sure it does until they squeeze out all the money and then drop it like a hotcake...

Looks like you are promoting this lot from the two comments left here and the other champions tower thread or you actually work for them...which one is it - investor or promoter?


----------



## wittyman

IS EQUITY RELEASE VIA MORTGAGE POSSIBLE ?

I own two Dubai apartments in Dubai Marina.. Both are fully paid up but the title deeds are not received yet.. I am a nonresident owner and both apartments are rented for more than a year now.. I intend to release equity by mortgage using the rental income to pay the installments..

I would apprecaite any information and/or advice in this regard.. 

Thanks in advance..


----------



## 234sale

non resident is the issue.

I spoke to a mortgage broker, its impossible as a non-resident to equity release.

Even to mortgage a property as a non-resident owner is impossible.



This in itself is an issue, as many bought property thinking the could get a mortgage on completion.

It's currently not possible to take a loan on a property without having 1 year residency.


----------



## MANUTD

234sale said:


> non resident is the issue.
> 
> I spoke to a mortgage broker, its impossible as a non-resident to equity release.
> 
> Even to mortgage a property as a non-resident owner is impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> This in itself is an issue, as many bought property thinking the could get a mortgage on completion.
> 
> It's currently not possible to take a loan on a property without having 1 year residency.


Shit i need to move there then Sale:lol::lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

234sale said:


> non resident is the issue.
> 
> I spoke to a mortgage broker, its impossible as a non-resident to equity release.
> 
> Even to mortgage a property as a non-resident owner is impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> This in itself is an issue, as many bought property thinking the could get a mortgage on completion.
> 
> It's currently not possible to take a loan on a property without having 1 year residency.


That is insane, how will the external world be able to invest in Dubai?


----------



## 234sale

If you take out a loan as an oversea's investor, (which people did.)

They have no way to force you to pay. (current issue for them)

Unlike resident mortgage holders.


Also you can only have typically 2 mortgages here, even if you have risk free assets in other investments.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Why don't they offer 60% mortgages at least and then just reposses if no payments made. Doubt prices will fall another 40%.


----------



## True Blue

That is what they did do before and prices did collapse and people defaulted and fled the country leaving the banks with a nightmare to clean up. It took a while for the authorities to enact the repossesion of property in the absence of the owners. As a result banks have no income from payments or any liquidity, instead they have a bag of properties worth a fraction of their original value. Exact same situation in the USA but the banks won't release all the property back onto the market or it just becomes a self perpetuating decline and the banks take a bigger hit.


----------



## glover

that's pretty much what's going on right now. the great majority of mortgages are approved on 30/70 basis. All the ads you see for up to 90% are all B.S.



Dubai_Steve said:


> Why don't they offer 60% mortgages at least and then just reposses if no payments made. Doubt prices will fall another 40%.


----------



## 234sale

To get the best rate you have to do a 40/60 deal, which gets you the lowest rate. 6%

So when you buy the property you have to get the seller to give you back 50% of the 40%..


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Why don't they offer 60% mortgages at least and then just reposses if no payments made.* Doubt prices will fall another 40%*.


No sooner are the words out your mouth and we see Select advertising property for sale on their website at 60% saving, 14% ROI. Perhaps this is the repo stock hitting the market!!

60% instant depreciation for all the other valued investors, way to go Select!


----------



## noir-dresses

The realestate sector will never recover unless banking stand's behind it.

That is not even considering the visa issue, many have realized it's just not worth buying vacation homes in Dubai.


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> 60% instant depreciation for all the other valued investors, way to go Select!


Surely your investment in Select had already depreciated 60%? - they were simply selling at the current market price


----------



## Morrismarina

AppleMac said:


> Surely your investment in Select had already depreciated 60%? - they were simply selling at the current market price


Of course.........but TB has an agenda against Select hence why he's looking at anything, even if it doesn't make sense, to have a go at them. What esle would expect though from an agressive Jock with an axe to grind. hno:


----------



## Adam2008

Dear Liwanowner,
Thanks for the info, I have paid 40% and now they are asking me another 20% because they reached 40%. The payment plan i got is
30% downpayment
20% @ completion of 30%
10% @ completion of 40%
10% @ completion of 50%
10% @ completion of 60%
10% @ completion of 70%
10% on Completion.

What worries me is the following:
- How can they ask for 90% payment on 70% completion
- What Guarantees me that I will get a property with the right specs
- What Guarantees me that after taking my money they will provide water and electricity.
- What Guarantees me that they will finish in time.
- Who Guarantees the integrity of NEB - www.neb.ae a Privately owned company who says that R47 is 40% finished. (we need more details other that NEB saying that).
- Who are NEB and what are the basis for their assumptions and are they audited.
- What is Mazaya some agreement with them...
- Where is the Demo unit that Mazaya promised 6 months ago.
- and last but not least why nobody in financing Mazaya projects and why Mazaya are standing still and not helping in listing the projects with some banks if they believe they will deliver.

I believe we should get together and at the moment I am having my lawyer to review my contract and put in the right response to our friends at Mazaya.


----------



## Adam2008

Dear Liwanowner,
Thanks for the info, I have paid 40% and now they are asking me another 20% because they reached 40%. The payment plan i got is
30% downpayment
20% @ completion of 30%
10% @ completion of 40%
10% @ completion of 50%
10% @ completion of 60%
10% @ completion of 70%
10% on Completion.

What worries me is the following:
- How can they ask for 90% payment on 70% completion
- What Guarantees me that I will get a property with the right specs
- What Guarantees me that after taking my money they will provide water and electricity.
- What Guarantees me that they will finish in time.
- Who Guarantees the integrity of NEB - www.neb.ae a Privately owned company who says that R47 is 40% finished. (we need more details other that NEB saying that).
- Who are NEB and what are the basis for their assumptions and are they audited.
- What is Mazaya some agreement with them...
- Where is the Demo unit that Mazaya promised 6 months ago.
- and last but not least why nobody in financing Mazaya projects and why Mazaya are standing still and not helping in listing the projects with some banks if they believe they will deliver.

I believe we should get together and at the moment I am having my lawyer to review my contract and put in the right response to our friends at Mazaya.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> 60% instant depreciation


Still its interesting how 3 beds in Dorra Bay are for sale at less than the price of off-plan, yet to be handed over Torch apartments. Maybe its the motorway or the plastic pool :dunno:


----------



## 234sale

http://www.moneyworks.ae/news/tables/9.pdf

Mortgage Rates for June 2010


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Still its interesting how 3 beds in Dorra Bay are for sale at less than the price of off-plan, yet to be handed over Torch apartments. Maybe its the motorway or the plastic pool :dunno:


^^You need to show me, Off plan prices were around 750-800psf for public launch and 10% cheaper for existing clients. That makes them good value and not likely to be in negative equity teritory.

The plastic pool drain is the same detail as Tiara Residence, remember the pool everyone is raving about


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Listed resale price of Dorra Bay is 980 psf on bhomes but I doubt it would get that after offers etc. so back to around launch price now maybe less.
With all the units comming on the market in the tallest block price will likely fall more for a couple of years.


----------



## True Blue

Tallest block will be worst affected IMO. 

Quick scan on Dubizzle, Dorrabay cheapest 3 bed 1.4M which is slightly above OP. JBR 3 beds <1.5M, Torch 1 beds from 700k, 2 beds from 1M. Over supply not to peak until 2012 so the mass market stuff is going to continue to suffer. Quality waterfront developments will survive initialy and rebound first.

You heard it here first


----------



## Mistermark

True Blue said:


> Tallest block will be worst affected IMO.
> 
> Quick scan on Dubizzle, Dorrabay cheapest 3 bed 1.4M which is slightly above OP. JBR 3 beds <1.5M, Torch 1 beds from 700k, 2 beds from 1M. Over supply not to peak until 2012 so the mass market stuff is going to continue to suffer. Quality waterfront developments will survive initialy and rebound first.
> 
> You heard it here first


You can't compare prices of units in completed projects with those under construction. Since the financial crisis the values of under construction units have tanked due to investors' concerns about completion combined with the fact that there is no longer a market for 'flipping'.


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> Quality waterfront developments will survive initialy and rebound first.
> 
> You heard it here first


Perhaps. But quality developments do not include those right next to a busy road bridge, those with dangerous car access and ground floor units with no view.


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> Dorrabay cheapest 3 bed 1.4M which is slightly above OP.


I sold my TT one bed for original price, so not much difference there then.............oh yes there is, I nearly forgot my TT unit was still under construction.


----------



## rallyman

*niki lauda*

Thanks sir.!! .. if you look at the wall from the opposite side that you took the photo you can see the staining left by the tankers, the one i saw was in the middle where the fence is split...!


----------



## True Blue

^^It's starting to turn into a bit of a rant again. Ruining the appearance of the forum as a source of well balanced opinions based on sound judgement and knowledge!


----------



## cayman1

Hi rallyman how about your litigation against Aci , have you received some money ?


----------



## eminef

*Seasons Community Summer Cluster*

I'm interested in joining in to take action. I have paid 30% for a hole in the ground past 1 1/2 years. They are not ready to cancel the contract.


----------



## eminef

Kishore,

Whats the latest? Have u formed a group for action? Any developments in our favour???

Pls. count me in ! I just came across this site a few days ago and am interested to fight for my money.


----------



## noir-dresses

The Dubai realestate sector is all crap rite now when it comes to value of property's, and you two keep rattling on whose shit has more peanut's in it.

The worst part is the value keeps falling, and falling, and falling.

Off load sound's sweater by the day.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Still believe there will be 1 last big property boom and bust cycle but about 10 years away before we see significant price increases.


----------



## noir-dresses

Who know's what will happen Steve. Way too much unit's in the pipe line's, visa issue, no credit from the bank's, etc, etc. None of the developer's cqme close to giving people what they paid for let that be quality, completion date, and management in the end.

I bought my place as a vacation home back in 2004, and I'm still waiting for the developement to be done. No matter how much I love Dubai I'm a business man in the end, and when I keep seeing the value drop, rent's drop, it makes my stomach turn.

From what I see it's best not to own any realestate in Dubai. It's a renter's market, and will be for a long time. For the little time I will be spending in Dubai it's best to book a good hotel, that's all. Simple, and no head aches.


----------



## 234sale

The general feeling is the price will be cheaper next month, unlike before were we expected it to be more expensive.

Most local business are running with skelton teams, maybe we will see some expansion as profits start increasing.


----------



## rallyman

*niki lauda*

about 6 months or so ago i won half the claim aginst aci in court but they appealed the decision so we are now in appeals court .....i have been in court on 17 occasions now and it gets delayed / postponed a month every time ... due again at end of sept. so no refund as yet !


----------



## DXBQuantum

Government is strapped for cash as well. - Increased Inflation.

More petrol price increases. mucks everything up.... groceries and generally everything increases because of transportation costs. 

''Allocative efficiency'' - this should be happening with goods and services but property values as well! like a yo-yo.


----------



## Addel

This is probably the best time for buying a proprty in Dubai.. Buy when others cry!!

It is when everybody is disappointed and pessimistic that the market makes a sudden turn.. 2 years from now everybody will regret not buying in 2010 or early 2011..


----------



## DXBQuantum

I believe in that philosophy as well. - ''When there's blood on the streets buy a property''


----------



## 234sale

Inflation can lead to less money in the hand for people.

The affordabilitiy of property has certainly increased but the issue is still yield

Dubai Marina / Downtown Price vs Rent (Very Generalised)









^^ Doesn't included the cost of finanncing, but as you can see, the issue with prices increasing is it's cheaper and less risk to rent.

LOI on deposit, lost due to 4% savings rate.

The real issue is going to be big appartments, who's ever going to buy them.

Now Studios and 1bed will remain the highest price per sqft.

The Target Price ( Conserative is in Blue.)


I had a talk to a leading FM company recently, I think Service Charges shouldn't just be done as a percentage of commen area, as big just beacuse an apartment is bigger, doesn't mean its having the same impact onto the building because of its use.


----------



## bister

rallyman said:


> about 6 months or so ago i won half the claim aginst aci in court but they appealed the decision so we are now in appeals court .....i have been in court on 17 occasions now and it gets delayed / postponed a month every time ... due again at end of sept. so no refund as yet !


Isn´t there supposed to be a time cap on appeals, basically that an appeal MUST be processed within a certain time frame - e.g. 4 weeks?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

So what is the solution to get people investing and buying in Dubai again?


----------



## DXBQuantum

Visa, Mortgage rates, Bankruptcy law and solid real estate laws that apply to everyone not selected people. 

No employment bans.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Agree think that would work. What is the current expectation that the above will be implemented at some point?


----------



## DXBQuantum

I would love to know Steve.. then I can start buying again!


----------



## Aliscott123

*Seasons*

I am trying to get a meeting with the Bank first. Once I have spoken to them I am happy to arrange a meeting with all who are interested in taking legal action. As far as cost is concerned it works on a scale depending on how much you are claiming back. The first step is Arbitration. I have been quoted AED7,000 for lodging claim in Arbitration then legal fees on top.


----------



## rallyman

*niki lauda*

at the moment they are making up the rules as they go, there are so many cases the system can not cope . we have been at appeal nearly 6 months now.


----------



## Wind Spokesperson

Eid Mobarak


----------



## 234sale

DXBQuantum said:


> Visa, Mortgage rates, Bankruptcy law and solid real estate laws that apply to everyone not selected people.
> 
> No employment bans.


Watch prices increase by 30%


----------



## gerald.d

ACI insolvent

(apologies if this is old news, but article popped up in my Twitter stream and is from today):

http://www.manager-magazin.de/finanzen/artikel/0,2828,716391,00.html

(Google translate -



> Once again, bad news for investors from Dubai-Fonds: Industry Leader ACI, who recently received a visit by the prosecution must register for a fund insolvency. According to observers, this is only the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> Hamburg - again bad news for investors in funds of alternative initiator Gütersloher Capital Invest (ACI). A few weeks before the prosecution had Bielefeld suspicion of fraud several business and private rooms of the company and the managers there, because searches. ACI now has a fund of at least immediately before the insolvency.
> 
> In a letter to the investors in the ACI Fund III, manager magazin available, announces the management of the Fund, "to the beginning of the 36th week of 2010 made within the statutory period granted to the bankruptcy petition. As the balance of the Fund show, the writing, "was the obvious insolvency position and now required by law."
> Background: The ACI applies in this country as the largest provider of investment schemes with investment destination Dubai. More than 8,000 investors have invested more than € 200 million in funds the company invested. Projects with a volume of more than € 600 million should be realized with the money. But in the bankruptcy ACI Fund III investors paid a capital of 19 million €. Special trademarks of ACI is the so-called Tower-branding, where celebrities like Michael Schumacher, Boris Becker and Niki Lauda, the projects of the company to lend its name.
> 
> Since the financial crisis has ended the boom in Dubai for the time being, but also runs at ACI's not much around. 2009 bursting of the sale of several homes in four funds of the company, including the now third affected by the insolvency fund No. The deal should bring returns to investors of more than 120 million €.
> 
> This has not, however. Observers expect that it will not stick to the one broke. The Siegburg Registry Göddecke lawyers who claims to represent several ACI investors, expects to follow that further funds will be Dubai. And that's not all: Because the funds have been distributed so far not made much of real profits, we fear that a receiver will recover from the investors. But in the case of the ACI Fund III, the letter stated that advance dividend equal to € 13.5 million have been made.
> 
> ACI is not the first Dubai-initiator, which is preparing its investors little joy. A few years ago failed Finanzwirt George R. Hamm made in trying to position itself as a fund initiator. From his hotel project, for which he has collected millions from investors € 20 at least, was still nothing. R. also quickly came to the attention of prosecutors.


----------



## speculator

People don't be so bleak !

Cheap is good. Once others in the world realise that Dubai is cheap enough they will come. Cheap accommodation & cheap office rents will attract business again which in turn will lead to more growth. I firmly believe once the world recession/depression is over then Dubai will be well placed to benefit. 

Cheap accomodation & offices coupled with a super infrastructure and all year sunshine can only be a recipe for success. 

I personally have a view that the authorities want this crash. OK we all agree that they are not too bright but I think the autorities wont need to intervene too much in the future as the market will sort itself out as it usually does.

Its best to take the medicine and the treatment now and not to avoid the inevitable. Remember these type of markets are volatile with extremes so any crash will always be exaggerated just like the boom.

The sooner the medicine the better as far as im concerned.


----------



## agod

Good Article....

Developers clueless as strata registration deadline looms


http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...s-strata-registration-deadline-looms-1.672075


----------



## DXBQuantum

That article proves my point about this market.

-Developers haven't got a clue.
-Government communications are useless and completely un-professional this market will not get better until they sort out these lazy officials.

So much to learn and so much work to do regulation wise...

Should make for some interesting times ahead..


----------



## noir-dresses

The right hand never know's what the left hand is doing.

I hope that's not the way the nuclear reactor's are going to be working one day when built.


----------



## Mistermark

speculator said:


> People don't be so bleak !
> 
> Cheap is good. Once others in the world realise that Dubai is cheap enough they will come. Cheap accommodation & cheap office rents will attract business again which in turn will lead to more growth. I firmly believe once the world recession/depression is over then Dubai will be well placed to benefit.
> 
> Cheap accomodation & offices coupled with a super infrastructure and all year sunshine can only be a recipe for success.
> 
> I personally have a view that the authorities want this crash. OK we all agree that they are not too bright but I think the autorities wont need to intervene too much in the future as the market will sort itself out as it usually does.
> 
> Its best to take the medicine and the treatment now and not to avoid the inevitable. Remember these type of markets are volatile with extremes so any crash will always be exaggerated just like the boom.
> 
> The sooner the medicine the better as far as im concerned.


I agree that cheap residential and office space plus good weather ought to be capable of attracting people - but this is subject to them being permitted to live in the country and run their businesses. The current residency laws, combined with the difficulty in enforcing commercial debts and contracts generally, do not in my view make Dubai an attractive ex-pat location as things stand. A lot of work will have to be done on the residency front and to the legal and judicial system, followed by a sustained PR offensive, for it to become a credible destination once more.


----------



## 234sale

Very few locals want to act as local sponours, 

Also the setting up cost, maintance costs are far to high.


I have a Limited company in the UK, I have an account who runs the legal side of things.

This cost only 600 - 1000 pounds a year, dependant on turn over / processing that need to be done.


----------



## AppleMac

Mistermark said:


> The current residency laws, combined with the difficulty in enforcing commercial debts and contracts generally, do not in my view make Dubai an attractive ex-pat location as things stand. A lot of work will have to be done on the residency front and to the legal and judicial system, followed by a sustained PR offensive, for it to become a credible destination once more.


Nothing you have said is incorrect, but it all needs to be put into perspective of what the alternative is.

Dubai isn't (no matter what the previous hype) a competitor for New York, London, Singapore, Hong Kong etc - it *is* a competitor for other cities in the MENA region like Bahrain, Doha, AD, Kuwait etc. and any measure of residency laws, legal, judicial and economic systems needs to be compared against the systems in place in competitor locations.

Thereby I would argue that for any company wishing to locate in the region, Dubai does have the best balance of laws and infrastructure in place (so far) - but it needs to be careful to keep ahead of the competition.


----------



## Mistermark

AppleMac said:


> Nothing you have said is incorrect, but it all needs to be put into perspective of what the alternative is.
> 
> Dubai isn't (no matter what the previous hype) a competitor for New York, London, Singapore, Hong Kong etc - it *is* a competitor for other cities in the MENA region like Bahrain, Doha, AD, Kuwait etc. and any measure of residency laws, legal, judicial and economic systems needs to be compared against the systems in place in competitor locations.
> 
> Thereby I would argue that for any company wishing to locate in the region, Dubai does have the best balance of laws and infrastructure in place (so far) - but it needs to be careful to keep ahead of the competition.


I agree that Dubai isn't, and probably never will be, a rival to NY, London, Singapore or Hong Kong, in that it's barely even a secondary financial and trading centre. 

However, I think it could position itself as a primary offshore jurisdiction, a place where people go to manage their money and avoid being fleeced by the governments of developed countries and their workshy electorates. In this regard, it could be better seen as a competitor to many places in the Caribbean/central America, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and Gibraltar, but with the considerable advantage of being further East and so more attractive to people who've made their money in places like Russia, the Balkans, India and other Middle East states where the desire to go 'offshore' may have more to do with avoiding extremist regimes than the avoidance of tax.

As the centre of gravity of the global economy moves east, the need for a rich men's playground in that time zone is very apparent. Dubai has many of the things needed to succeed in this capacity; in truth, the only things it lacks are secure residence, the removal of bureaucracy for entrepreneurs and a legal system that works. If those things could be overcome, the emirate would in my view have a secure place in the world and its economy and property market would prosper.


----------



## 9714

^^makes sense when you put it like that.


----------



## Morrismarina

noir-dresses said:


> The right hand never know's what the left hand is doing.
> 
> I hope that's not the way the nuclear reactor's are going to be working one day when built.




It's the one now operating in Iran you should be worrying about.


----------



## AppleMac

Mistermark said:


> However, I think it could position itself as a primary offshore jurisdiction, a place where people go to manage their money and avoid being fleeced by the governments of developed countries and their workshy electorates. In this regard, it could be better seen as a competitor to many places in the Caribbean/central America, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and Gibraltar, but with the considerable advantage of being further East and so more attractive to people who've made their money in places like Russia, the Balkans, India and other Middle East states where the desire to go 'offshore' may have more to do with avoiding extremist regimes than the avoidance of tax.


Well two points:

1: The residency requirements of the IoM and the Channel Islands are far more onerous than Dubai's - so I'm not convinced that the present residency issues are a massive disincentive to those who simply want to avoid tax.

2: I'm sure that there are many people who want to avoid 'extremist regimes' all over the world - I'm not sure that it makes sense to set yourself up as a 'safe haven' for all these people - some of who may have very dodgy reasons for wanting to escape living in their currant country.


Dubai needs to concentrate on being *the* trading hub of the region in my opinion - it is what it has done best over the long term.


----------



## speculator

Mistermark said:


> I agree that cheap residential and office space plus good weather ought to be capable of attracting people - but this is subject to them being permitted to live in the country and run their businesses. The current residency laws, combined with the difficulty in enforcing commercial debts and contracts generally, do not in my view make Dubai an attractive ex-pat location as things stand. A lot of work will have to be done on the residency front and to the legal and judicial system, followed by a sustained PR offensive, for it to become a credible destination once more.


 Dubai isnt perfect but where is ? 

Applemac is spot on.


----------



## unknownpleasures

True Blue said:


> I'm not sure if the article sites an example where the contractor has not made progress or progress may have stopped or been so slow that it amounts to being out of line with the payments timings.
> 
> This is where most contracts are, or appear to be one sided. There is an obligation on the buyer to perform financial milestones however it is only inferred that the developer is expected to make progress inline with these financial milestones. Inferred in that a start date and a completion date is stated in the contract so it is reasonable to expect performance by the developer in line with these dates. Force majeure is often abused as a smoke screen to hide behind and permits delays without compensation. Where it should be easy in the UK to terminate a contract where the completion date has not been acheived and is no longer determinable due to lack of performance and dilligence of the contractor/developer, it does not appear so straight forward in UAE.
> 
> A contract is 2 sided and both parties must perform in accordance with the agreement. Time is of the essence, a breach on one side should permit the other to seek remedy. Continual breach by continually delaying the contract or continually failing to make payments should permit termination of the agreement by the agrieved party. In Dubai most people make their payments on time but the completion gets extended and extended. this should permit cancellation after a reasonable timescale has expired. A contract is never open ended, although if you bought a villa on PJA you might just prove me wrong!


^^
Your explanation makes a lot of sense and yes both parties should be performing but once one party doesn't where does it leave the other party particularly when it comes to lack of performance or the over-use of force majuere which has been the case and where it should be considered as a breach and termination without any further expense to the agrieved party considering that delays in the majority of instances are more than 2 years (due to little or no work ever in progress and the one party has been dragging it out and on top of that expect more payments when they haven't reached any construction commensurate to the monies paid??) 

However from what has been reported all force majeure is covered in those one sided contracts and something that most would not have thought would be the case unless it was an act of God as most people felt that permits would have been in place well before construction was to begin...however it seems just about everything can be used and justified as being force majeure). It appears from the majority of complaints (many reports about this) the contracts are one-sided and favoring one party over the other, nothing is clear and RERA also from what is reported are one-sided. Why this sort of thing has been allowed to occur without someone stepping in (eg RERA) to correct it is unbelievable. No one to date has been successful according to reports even though there are people out there trying to promote their two bit law firms and masquerade as some sort of miracle workers, which is not the case (or these recovery schemes?? more scams as suggested by Mistermark...it's not the first of it's kind ...together with the expense of court which is absolutely out of reach for the majority as most a small investors that have poured their life's savings into this and give up as they cannot afford further expense to be let down by the courts when they they would also be responsible for the otherside's costs as well...it leaves very little choice for anyone like this to get justice!

Proof of the land not being registered and no escrow accounts is the only way that people may be successful. How can a case of fraud be proven when the one sided party has opened an account well after the time frame allowed or registered the land well after the time frame allowed...it seems a case where it doesn't matter when but as long as it has been done...although no money is there to complete the building after it has been either spent or misappropriated??? Who is going to disclose this information to the other party should this have been the case which in most cases it may have been as the majority of funds were not deposited into escrow once the law had been enacted. There may be a clear case of fraud in all of this but there is no one there to open up the case and expose it to other party concerned and no one can count on RERA assisting even though they have a clear mandate to prosecute those who have violated the law...

Sorry don't know anything about PJA...just what has been reported about the one-sided contracts and a lot of articles or cases on this being the case since 2007 leaving a lot of people totally bewildered and reason why there is no confidence left in the off plan market, it may never recover its good name or standing should this be allowed to continue.


----------



## True Blue

^^Where one party fails to meet their obligations and this default continues, then the other party can claim the contract is frustrated and seek the court to cancel the contract and award L&A damages. That is the process in the UK.

In the UAE, it appears that if you feel the other party has failed to honour it's obligations under the contract that you can take your complaint to Rera and ask them for a termination and refund award. There have been successful cases awarded against developers but only where no progress has been made at all by the developer. Most developers are quick to learn the minimum requirements and just keep themselves on the right side of the thin line. Now the developers are seeking default against parties who withold payments due to slow progress. It's a jungle out there!

If your complaint is against a government backed developer, Nakheel, Emaar DP etc, you can pretty much forget it. They see themselves as above the law and so far appear to hold that status.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Your information provides the basis of the problem clearly....it's a pity that many are still in denial about it all and steer people in the wrong direction especially when it is out there in the public...


----------



## rexdmx

AltinD said:


> ^^ Hey, how are you? How's wheelbarrow doing?


splendid! just had new wheels installed. painted it pink now:nuts:


----------



## noir-dresses

It all comes to show what it really means to have the key's to a finished apartment in Dubai, and if the area is well developed more power to you.


----------



## bizzybonita

New properties in Dubai found lacking in quality of finish

The quality of finishing in newly completed properties in Dubai has dropped considerably. This could be due to cost-cutting measures adopted by the developers, including hiring cheaper contractors, said a Dubai-based firm.

The Managing Director of Land Sterling, a property valuations firm based in Dubai, Youcef Betraoui, said that ever-since the downturn, there has been a fall in standards owing to cost cutting and the hurrying up of work to complete deadlines. The developers have also been found hiring cheaper contractors for cost-cutting purposes.

Betraoui, whose company is regulated by Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors in the UK and the RERA in Dubai, said that on an average the company receives about 20 to 30 issues with each villas, although, it varies from one project to another.

When things began getting worse for developers, this number grew to 50. When owners spotted this, they demanded that a professional inspect the property before handover. The company has seen atleast 20 percent increase in demand for snagging services during first half of this year, he added.

According to Betraoui, the decline in quality is not just for medium quality developments. It is also for multi-million dirham penthouses in the Palm Jumeirah.

Although the palm-shaped Nakheel development usually are among the best quality finishes in Dubai, there are *Dh.15mn worth penthouses that have water leakage, spotlights that did not work, and doors and windows that had problems.* :lol:

Land Sterling is involved in inspecting the quality of building work prior to hand-over of properties by the developer to the owner (known as snagging).

After inspection, the snag report will be sent to the developer, and a copy of it will be sent to the owner. After completion of the said works (which takes a week to a month), the company does a follow up inspection. If the work is found of sufficient quality, the final payment is made and the keys are exchanged. The work also involves a one year warranty from the developer.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ I remember The Jewels had a lot of problems like that.



desertweasel said:


> Lots of water coming in and not because of blocked drains, the sea facing windows exposed to the wind and rain leak, water coming in through the top.
> I passed one of the contractors in the lift with a list of flats that were leaking, there were lots, this was J tower.





ramo said:


> Outside glass that has caused major leakage in our apartment
> 
> - None of the temporary windows have been replaced. Nor cladding
> applied.
> - One of the bedrooms the glass has separated from the wall making it
> very dangerous as it can fall off anytime.





MsWeasel said:


> Kitchen
> Window between kitchen and maid’s room leaked during recent rains


etc.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The International Monetary Fund will raise its economic growth forecasts for Dubai and the United Arab Emirates as progress in debt restructuring and government spending boosts the economy, IMF Middle East Director Masood Ahmed said. 

Growth in the U.A.E. will be better than the current forecast of 1.3 percent and the 0.4 percent contraction for Dubai this year, Ahmed said in a telephone interview today. He declined to give the new figures, which are due in four weeks time. 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...nomic-growth-forecasts-masood-ahmed-says.html


----------



## Hanna

*ACI Dubai Funds filed bankruptcy in Germany*

Gütersloh / Bielefeld, Germany (dpa).
Several companies from real estate funds in Dubai, under the umbrella of the Gütersloh investment company ACI have registered on Friday for bankruptcy. In this act it is the companies of the Fund II to V and the ACI IV Beteiligungs GmbH, said the district court of Bielefeld. A temporary administrator will probably determined on Monday, it said. File number has not yet been awarded.
The company had previously announced bankruptcy. ACI-founder Uwe Lohmann had stressed that the reason is the falling price of real estate in Dubai.
continue reading original text in german ....

Full report update source The National
Berlin // German prosecutors have confirmed they are investigating the management of Alternative Capital Invest (ACI), the biggest German property investment fund in Dubai, amid allegations of fraud. The company had declared bankruptcy on four of its investment funds. “An investigation has been launched against executives of the company ACI for alleged capital investment fraud and breach of trust,” Heinrich Rempe, a senior prosecutor in Bielefeld, western Germany, told The
National last night.“The company set up investment funds in Germany with the purpose of
entering into investments in Dubai. The investigation is focusing on alleged false information given in the prospectus the company issued for its funds.”

Mr Rempe said ACI had a total of seveninvestment funds and that four of them, numbered II to V, had filed for insolvency. He said the investigation had been going on for several months.“The probe is still at an early stage,” Mr Rempe added.ACI declined to comment.

According to Handelsblatt, a leading German business newspaper, ACI had collected about €210 million (Dh1 billion) from about 6,000 investors in its various funds to invest in constructing high-rise developments in Dubai.Handelsblatt said Bielefeld prosecutors were investigating the founder of ACI, Hanns-Uwe Lohmann, and his son Robin, and that ACI’s headquarter in the western German town of Guetersloh had been searched in June.Lohmann has denied the allegations. German media quoted him as saying the projects ACI had invested in were unfinished and the slump in Dubai property prices had forced the company to make “unavoidable balance sheet write-downs of the book values”.
Mr Lohmann has resigned as the chief executive of ACI. ACI is engaged in several development and property projects in Dubai and was best known for its concept of “tower branding”.The fund company was planning towers named after celebrities such as the Formula 1 drivers Michael Schumacher and Niki Lauda, and the tennis champion Boris Becker. Huge advertisement campaigns ran throughout Dubai until 2008 before the property market reached its peak.ACI told investors in a recent letter that while its Dubai Fonds II to V had declared bankruptcy, the latest funds Dubai Fonds VI and VII had not. Fonds I had been closed at an earlier date, and €13.5m had been paid out to investors.Media reports said ACI had expected to realise projects worth more than €600m in Dubai before the financial situation deteriorated.

ACI developments include the Dubai Star tower in Jumeirah Lake Towers for
which a new contractor is being sought, according to a statement by ACI
Real Estate in Dubai.The Q Sami tower and Victory Bay in Business Bay are also seeking new contractors. The PKS Residences and the Mayfield Gardens projects in Jumeirah Village have been put on hold, along with the Niki Lauda, Boris Becker and Michael Schumacher towers and the Wings of Arabia project in Dubailand.
Progress on the Ferretti and Pershing Beach Residences on Waterfront have also ground to a halt, although they were slated for completion by next year.

ACI claims that some of the projects have already been sold.
Earlier this year, ACI tried unsuccessfully to sell other assets as potential
buyers canceled deals. Mr Lohmann blamed this on “intrigues” by
competitors and unfavorable reports in the media.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ I remember The Jewels had a lot of problems like that.
> 
> 
> etc.


Your problems are yet to come! The Jewels probably did not have one tenth of the problems reported in Selects TP and most other DCE jobs.

All of Jewels issues were resolved as soon as they were discovered, not the case with TP one year on!

I have a sneeking suspicion your problems could include electrical power failure, good luck climbing those stairs


----------



## noir-dresses

Well guys if any one is interested, I managed to get another 90,000 AED rent for another year on my two bed in JLT with my tenant. The only change I made on the contract is twelve payment's which is ok for me. It all stay's in my UAE bank account any way.

The tenant did mention the rents are dropping in Dubai, and I told him the rent stay's the same or else I'm selling the place, or using it my self. I know he love's the apartment, and he was happy to stay. It all come's down to if you let them push you around, then you are screwed, hold your ground. 

That gives me another 12 month's to see how the JLT community progresses. If the lakes, and landscaping isn't done I'll either sell, or get a place on the Old Town Island.


----------



## True Blue

^^Well done! 

Tenants have to factor in the cost and inconvenience of moving and the agents commission. As long as you are not being greedy then stick to your guns. Funny how tenants will always tell you they can get cheaper elsewhere but they never compare apples with apples


----------



## Mussa1

As you are a landlord in the JLT, i had few questions if you could help

As a landlord who pays maintenance fees - is it the landlord or tenant - what fees do the landlords pay ie bills or anything

Regards



True Blue said:


> ^^Well done!
> 
> Tenants have to factor in the cost and inconvenience of moving and the agents commission. As long as you are not being greedy then stick to your guns. Funny how tenants will always tell you they can get cheaper elsewhere but they never compare apples with apples


----------



## 234sale

Landlord pays, as the bill from the master developer, would be in the Landlords name.

Only case this would not be true is if your tenancy contract say, "Tenant shall pay Service Charge".

Such as a commercial contract, but highly inlikely a residential contract.


----------



## noir-dresses

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/g...revision-in-uae-will-help-foreigners-1.683282

inheritance law revision in uae will help foriegners


----------



## IISinbadII

Hi guys,

Does anyone here know anything about property investment in *Malaysia*? 
How is the market, hot areas in Kuala Lumpur, websites for property listing, rental yields, problems, issues, etc.

Thanks


----------



## Morrismarina

IISinbadII said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Does anyone here know anything about property investment in *Malaysia*?
> How is the market, hot areas in Kuala Lumpur, websites for property listing, rental yields, problems, issues, etc.
> 
> Thanks


Here's a tip.......try searching for an investment thread in the Malaysia section of SSC. kay:


----------



## bizzybonita

IISinbadII said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Does anyone here know anything about property investment in *Malaysia*?
> How is the market, hot areas in Kuala Lumpur, websites for property listing, rental yields, problems, issues, etc.
> 
> Thanks


yes i do 

Just visit my own visitor massages


----------



## gerald.d

noir-dresses said:


> Well guys if any one is interested, I managed to get another 90,000 AED rent for another year on my two bed in JLT with my tenant. The only change I made on the contract is twelve payment's which is ok for me. It all stay's in my UAE bank account any way.
> 
> The tenant did mention the rents are dropping in Dubai, and I told him the rent stay's the same or else I'm selling the place, or using it my self. I know he love's the apartment, and he was happy to stay. It all come's down to if you let them push you around, then you are screwed, hold your ground.
> 
> That gives me another 12 month's to see how the JLT community progresses. If the lakes, and landscaping isn't done I'll either sell, or get a place on the Old Town Island.


OTI is Dubai's Knightsbridge (not that most people realize it yet). Can't think of anywhere in the Middle East that's a better place to live.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Myleene Klass in new Dubai campaign

The campaign, called "In Dubai every day is an opportunity," was filmed in Dubai last week, and will be aired during Channel 4's coverage of the Dubai Dewhurst Stakes horse race on Saturday 16 October. 

Developed by the London-based production company New Moon, it aims to encourage more British people to consider living in or visiting the emirate. 

The campaign will tell the story of four characters - a taxi driver, a businessman, a groom and a "sophisticated woman", played by Klass - whose stories intersect around Dubai's Meydan racecourse. 

Klass, who lives in Hertfordshire, said: "I was delighted to be able to support this campaign in Dubai. I first came to Dubai 15 years ago and a lot has changed since then. It really is an amazing place and whether you’re a family on holiday or someone working here, it has everything to offer." 

The emirate, which has a strong tradition of horse racing, is sponsoring the Group One Dewhurst Stakes. 

"The Dewhurst Stakes is traditionally the single most significant two-year-old race in Europe and is therefore a unique opportunity to showcase Dubai’s passion for horse racing," said John Ferguson, bloodstock advisor to Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Dubai's ruler.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/7999840/Myleene-Klass-in-new-Dubai-campaign.html


----------



## 234sale

Supply Chain will end 2012, gulp..


----------



## High Times

Leaving occupancy rates of units in the 30% - 40% region.
Two palms yet to be built on, at least 2-3 times the size of Palm J
Dubailand totaly undelivered and not financially viable
No wealth migration to Dubai 
No reason to buy property as rents still have 10%-20% to fall
Unable to use property for more than 30 days due to visa laws
Foreign mortgages near impossible to attain

Anyone in Dubai ever heard of distorted yeild curve ?

Get your tin hats on out there.


----------



## 234sale

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/597717-nakheel-restarts-work-at-dubais-al-furjan-project-



> Nakheel restarts work at Dubai's Al Furjan project. Nakheel earlier this year had delayed payments to contractors and suppliers causing Arabtec Holding to suspend work at the 560-hectare Al Furjan project after building only 500 of a planned 4,000 homes


More supply,, going to photograph all of Jumeriah Village some point next week.


----------



## unknownpleasures

High Times said:


> Leaving occupancy rates of units in the 30% - 40% region.
> Two palms yet to be built on, at least 2-3 times the size of Palm J
> Dubailand totaly undelivered and not financially viable
> No wealth migration to Dubai
> No reason to buy property as rents still have 10%-20% to fall
> Unable to use property for more than 30 days due to visa laws
> Foreign mortgages near impossible to attain
> 
> Anyone in Dubai ever heard of distorted yeild curve ?
> 
> Get your tin hats on out there.


^^
Like your honesty


----------



## gerald.d

High Times said:


> Leaving occupancy rates of units in the 30% - 40% region.


Presumably you're talking about office space here? I find it hard to believe residential occupancy rates would ever drop that low.


> Two palms yet to be built on, at least 2-3 times the size of Palm J


Two? Surely you're not expecting Palm Deira to be built? Must admit I haven't been following its progress at all - I was assuming all work on it had stopped.


> Dubailand totaly undelivered and not financially viable
> No wealth migration to Dubai
> No reason to buy property as rents still have 10%-20% to fall


This one's interesting - do you really think that rents have pretty much bottomed out? It's been bloody marvellous upgrading each year, although to be perfectly honest, I'm finding it hard to think of somewhere better to upgrade to next year if things do get cheaper.


----------



## True Blue

Palm Jebal Ali land reclamation is about 85% done and Palm Deira is about 5% done. PJA has no infrastructure and won't receive the first residents for minimum 5 years possibly 10 years depending on how the recovery and Nakheel fare over the next 3 years. They won't thow money at it the way they did with The Palm. That means nothing coming through this pipeline in the short to medium term.

Rents are falling but they are also spreading now as people move to classier or bigger rents. Quality units will drop the least and be the first to recover, low grade units will stay cheap to satisfy the demand for low cost housing for the low income employees.


----------



## AppleMac

Abu Ahmad said:


> Just with regards to the lifespan of buildings in the UAE, I've heard from quite a few sources now that buildings tend to last 15-30 years and they are then demolished.


Abu Dhabi has plenty of buildings that are 30+ still going strong. What has been happening is that the basic structure is sound so the building is just gutted and modern utilities and decor installed. 

Pretty much all the buildings in the UAE are reinforced concrete and as we dont have great variations in climate there isn't a great deal to 'wear'.


----------



## speculator

High Times said:


> Leaving occupancy rates of units in the 30% - 40% region.
> Two palms yet to be built on, at least 2-3 times the size of Palm J
> Dubailand totaly undelivered and not financially viable
> No wealth migration to Dubai
> No reason to buy property as rents still have 10%-20% to fall
> Unable to use property for more than 30 days due to visa laws
> Foreign mortgages near impossible to attain
> 
> Anyone in Dubai ever heard of distorted yeild curve ?
> 
> Get your tin hats on out there.


Now come on..... caaaalm down a bit.

A few palms & visa's aside doesn't sound any different to old blytey.


----------



## glover

with all that said, you still have Standard Chartered weighing moving their HQ from London to Dubai! what does that tell you!

*Standard Chartered weighs Dubai HQ move*

Tom Arnold

* Last Updated: September 18. 2010 8:21PM UAE / September 18. 2010 4:21PM GMT

Standard Chartered would consider relocating to Dubai if tightening tax and financial regulations force the bank to abandon its London headquarters.

The emirate, along with Singapore and Hong Kong, were the most likely to be top of the list of possible alternative bases under contingency plans being drawn up by the company, according to a senior source at the bank.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100918/BUSINESS/709189906/1005



High Times said:


> Leaving occupancy rates of units in the 30% - 40% region.
> Two palms yet to be built on, at least 2-3 times the size of Palm J
> Dubailand totaly undelivered and not financially viable
> No wealth migration to Dubai
> No reason to buy property as rents still have 10%-20% to fall
> Unable to use property for more than 30 days due to visa laws
> Foreign mortgages near impossible to attain
> 
> Anyone in Dubai ever heard of distorted yeild curve ?
> 
> Get your tin hats on out there.


----------



## mmughal77

*Ishraqah*

Ishraqah has money to build their own head office near greens? next Emaar Business park, Al Sharaf is there already and building..


----------



## agod

Interesting Article.


Title deed assured even if developer fails to pay fee
Land Department says if investor pays the 2% fee, title will be registered


http://www.emirates247.com/property...eveloper-fails-to-pay-fee-2010-09-23-1.293893


A.


----------



## hayesh

*I'm not too sure*

Towers 6 and 7 are nearing completion but Towers 1-5 are slowly proceeding. I went to the site and apparently the contractor just started getting paid.

The banks are still not funding Al Manal from what I know and I doubt that things will get done in 10 months but the site is not abandoned.

Did anyone go to court or get their money back? Just curious.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Has anyone ever thought that Old Blighty has been the problem and where problems become bigger problems elsewhere?


----------



## unknownpleasures

True Blue said:


> Palm Jebal Ali land reclamation is about 85% done and Palm Deira is about 5% done. PJA has no infrastructure and won't receive the first residents for minimum 5 years possibly 10 years depending on how the recovery and Nakheel fare over the next 3 years. They won't thow money at it the way they did with The Palm. That means nothing coming through this pipeline in the short to medium term.


^^
What happens to those who supported the projects, those who laid out the money for this to happen? Nothing? no money back for their efforts to support the infracstructure that was put out there for the betterment of the UAE?


----------



## True Blue

^^Couldn't agree more! Everyone thought it was safe to invest in government linked developments. Truth is no one was safe, people were distracted by other risks of possible instability, Iranian wars etc but no one saw the financial melt down which consumed the rulers wealth and credibility with it.


----------



## unknownpleasures

^^
The quote you use fits into the equation...should be embedded deeply in the forehead of the abovementioned, Nakeel and the rest who have not built but destroyed....

"people will judge you on what you can build, not on what you can destroy".

Barack Obama 20th January 2009.


----------



## High Times

glover said:


> with all that said, you still have Standard Chartered weighing moving their HQ from London to Dubai! what does that tell you!


It only tells me that you didnt read the artical properly.



> Standard Chartered would consider relocating to Dubai if tightening tax and financial regulations force the bank to abandon its London headquarters.
> 
> The emirate, along with Singapore and Hong Kong, were the most likely to be top of the list of possible alternative bases under contingency plans being drawn up by the company, according to a senior source at the bank.
> 
> Shareholders are concerned possible tax and regulatory reforms by the UK could hamper the bank’s business performance internationally.
> 
> Chief executives at several large London-based lenders have given recent warnings that moves to ratchet up banking legislation may persuade them to consider moving their headquarters from the international financial services centre.
> 
> Peter Sands, the chief executive of Standard Chartered, was quoted as saying last month London was its preferred base unless it became “hopelessly disadvantaged”.


http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100918/BUSINESS/709189906/1005

Bottom line here Glover is that Dubai needs to find around 2 million new residents who earn more than minimum wage standing around in malls outnumbering customers by 2-1. The problem is that Emiratis don’t want them, neither do Abu Dhabi. That's why buildings will start to come down within 12 months as its gonna get embarrassing soon. Empty buildings will become a painfull reminder of the heady days of excess. They will want to start saving face soon.

Next stage of Dubai's development will be an increased zoning of the emirate that will involve certain districts emerging as higher worth than others due to facilities, location and perceived status. This will create a much wider differential in pricing between districts and I believe the changes will be exponential.

If your looking for newspaper quotes to make you feel better heres a great one.

Hold tight everyone theres a boom coming.



> Boom coming in next two years – Sheikh Maktoum


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/597629-boom-coming-in-next-two-years--sheikh-maktoum


----------



## unknownpleasures

High Times said:


> It only tells me that you didnt read the artical properly.
> 
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100918/BUSINESS/709189906/1005
> 
> Bottom line here Glover is that Dubai needs to find around 2 million new residents who earn more than minimum wage standing around in malls outnumbering customers by 2-1. The problem is that Emiratis don’t want them, neither do Abu Dhabi. That's why buildings will start to come down within 12 months as its gonna get embarrassing soon. Empty buildings will become a painfull reminder of the heady days of excess. They will want to start saving face soon.
> 
> Next stage of Dubai's development will be an increased zoning of the emirate that will involve certain districts emerging as higher worth than others due to facilities, location and perceived status. This will create a much wider differential in pricing between districts and I believe the changes will be exponential.
> 
> If your looking for newspaper quotes to make you feel better heres a great one.
> 
> Hold tight everyone theres a boom coming.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/597629-boom-coming-in-next-two-years--sheikh-maktoum


^^
This is great...it's better than watching live comedy...makes it all worthwhile...thanks for the laughs HT...very clever indeed!


----------



## TerryPop

*occupancy levels*

Been farting about Dubai for the last week or so- and these are bits and bobs I have heard/seen/:

Driver I have been using is living with 3 other bachelors in int'l city- he thinks 75 per cent of that development is empty.

The 1 bed he shares there cost him 78,000 aed in year 1 and 28,000 aed in year 2!!!!


75% is only 25% away from completely empty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Marina residences on the palm is made up of 6 buildings. Each building has 166 apartments. One building I have been monitoring over the last 12 months has gone from 20% occupied pre-summer to fourty plus per cent now.

This week the 68th apartment in the building rented out.

This is despite multiple buildings opening up on the palm during this time. I think occupancy will be at 60% by December.

Offices in JLT- still extremely stagnant and preference for particular buildings over others very very very evident.

Change of use imo is going to have to happen.



Original 6 Marina Apartments Emaar Dubai marina-friends been trying to buy there this week- they are still nearly double OP 2004 prices.

3 bed was 1.7 sales prices now 2.8-3.6


Discovery Gardens- rents collapsed over summer- 1 beds around 44k with cheques in multiple. Still very easy to rent out at right price tho. Occupancy levels high- i believe because location has saved investors asses on this project.



Bankers I met been working on debt restructuring saying the probs are very real and many more to come to surface. 





HighTimes love your work- keep it coming








High Times said:


> It only tells me that you didnt read the artical properly.
> 
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100918/BUSINESS/709189906/1005
> 
> Bottom line here Glover is that Dubai needs to find around 2 million new residents who earn more than minimum wage standing around in malls outnumbering customers by 2-1. The problem is that Emiratis don’t want them, neither do Abu Dhabi. That's why buildings will start to come down within 12 months as its gonna get embarrassing soon. Empty buildings will become a painfull reminder of the heady days of excess. They will want to start saving face soon.
> 
> Next stage of Dubai's development will be an increased zoning of the emirate that will involve certain districts emerging as higher worth than others due to facilities, location and perceived status. This will create a much wider differential in pricing between districts and I believe the changes will be exponential.
> 
> If your looking for newspaper quotes to make you feel better heres a great one.
> 
> Hold tight everyone theres a boom coming.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/597629-boom-coming-in-next-two-years--sheikh-maktoum


----------



## glover

you still don't get the point. why would Dubai even make it to the list of candidates that Standard Chartered might move their HQ to if its as bad as you are painting it. Why not consider any other european city or an american one. I'll tell you why, because this is where the future is, in the east and dubai is becoming part of that. 

that has always been the problem with your thinking, you don't see the overall picture and lack a long term vision. always quick to pat yourself on the back!

what dubai is going through right now is a classic boom and bust cycle, which many other cities have gone through, demolish or no demolish.

and when the time comes, i'll remind you of that. (remember your bet on the sterling)


High Times said:


> It only tells me that you didnt read the artical properly.
> 
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100918/BUSINESS/709189906/1005
> 
> Bottom line here Glover is that Dubai needs to find around 2 million new residents who earn more than minimum wage standing around in malls outnumbering customers by 2-1. The problem is that Emiratis don’t want them, neither do Abu Dhabi. That's why buildings will start to come down within 12 months as its gonna get embarrassing soon. Empty buildings will become a painfull reminder of the heady days of excess. They will want to start saving face soon.
> 
> Next stage of Dubai's development will be an increased zoning of the emirate that will involve certain districts emerging as higher worth than others due to facilities, location and perceived status. This will create a much wider differential in pricing between districts and I believe the changes will be exponential.
> 
> If your looking for newspaper quotes to make you feel better heres a great one.
> 
> Hold tight everyone theres a boom coming.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/597629-boom-coming-in-next-two-years--sheikh-maktoum


----------



## Dubai_Steve

After 10 months of critical scrutiny and tough negotiations with banks, Dubai has returned to the credit markets in a move that seems set to boost confidence in the emirate following its debt crisis. 

A $1.25bn sovereign bond and a convertible bond issue of up to $500m, launched by the state-backed Emaar Properties on Wednesday, have both been oversubscribed. 

“All these capital markets transactions in one day – that really shows that Dubai is back,” said one banker involved in one of the deals. “People are always cautious, but that is a success by any measure.”

The emirate’s crisis was triggered after it released a now infamous statement on November 25 requesting a standstill with Dubai World’s creditors. The announcement severely tarnished the city state’s image. At the time, analysts said it would take time to regain the confidence of investors. But since then, officials have been seen to deal more professionally with creditors.

However, a successful day in the capital markets still cannot mask an overall debt burden of $110bn – a figure that continues to rise. There have been significant job losses and Dubai’s real estate sector – which during the boom accounted for more than a third of gross domestic product – remains in the doldrums. Analysts say the government should do more to improve transparency to regain the full trust of investors. 

Still, being able to tap the capital markets is seen as important to Dubai’s revival – the $1.25bn bond was the first sovereign launch since the November debacle. “It’s clear that the bond market will have to be an important source of capital for Dubai for some time to come, so it’s positive that they got the first one out of the way post Dubai World,” said Chavan Bhogaita, head of credit research at National Bank of Abu Dhabi.

Markets may still be cautious given the rosy official assurances that preceded Dubai World’s near-default last year.

But a new guard of government technocrats has finally introduced clearer communication with the financial world. The authorities are clarifying the once-nebulous lines between core government assets, which the state would back wholeheartedly, and government-related entities that are “independent” and must apply to the state for assistance if they face repayment problems.

The prospectus for the sovereign bond – while still lacking basic disclosures – also reflects a growing realism on the part of the government as it refocuses on trade, tourism and securing Dubai’s place as the location of choice for businesses in the Gulf. 

There are also signs of a broader economic revival. Trade, down 20 per cent last year, has staged a recovery of about 14 per cent in the first half of 2010, while tourism is also stabilising from the low points of 2009. 

The emirate is turning its focus to Dubai Holding, a conglomerate owned by the ruler, which is restructuring parts of its $12bn of debt. But resolving the real estate mess – for end users as well as lenders – is another open question as the courts overflow with disputes. 

One property investor was returning to the courts of the Dubai International Financial Centre on Wednesday to fight a legal battle against a private developer over millions of dollars lost to incomplete properties. 

“They need to resolve these issues, otherwise who is going to trust the place again?” he said.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1b923912-cbe6-11df-bd28-00144feab49a.html?ftcamp=rss


----------



## redresidence

Hello ALL: 

IT is OFFICIAL! MED IS OUT OF MONEY! BANKS ARE NOT LENDING IT ANY MORE MONEY! MED IS CURRENTLY NEGOTIATING WITH ALL RED RESIDENCE INVESTORS AT 20-25% DISCOUNT FROM THE LAUNCH PRICE IF THE BUYER CAN ACCELERATE HIS SCHEDULED PAYMENTS.>>>>> WHY? GUY I SPOKE TO SAID NO ONE IS MAKING ANY MORE PAYMENTS AND THEY NEED MONEY IN ORDER FOR THE BUILDING TO CONTINUE... THIS IS GETTING INTERESTING.... DON'T PAY ANY MONEY.... FINISHED PROPERTIES IN DUBAI SPORTS CITY ARE SELLING AT 725-730 DIRHAMS PER SQUARE FEET AS WE SPEAK. ON RED RESIDENCE, MED IS OFFERING 825-850 PER SQUARE FEET. UNLESS YOU CAN GET SOMEWHERE AROUND 750-760 PER SQUARE FEET DEAL, DO NOT PAY. WE ARE GOING TO DOUBLE DIP IN REAL ESTATE IN DUBAI AND YOU PICK UP THIS PROPERTIES AT MUCH CHEAPER PRICE. IT IS MUCH BETTER TO PART WITH YOUR MONEY THAT YOU HAVE PAID THAN PAY SOMETHING THAT IS WORTH 30-35% LOWER AND MAY CONTINUE TO GO TO 50% OR SO. 

BETTER YET, YOU CAN FIND A FINISHED DUBAI MARINA PROPERTY AROUND 750-800 RANGE DEPENDING OWN THE LOCATION AND QUALITY OF PROJECT. 

WE CAN TAKE TO MED TO COURT AS THEY ARE OUT OF CONTRACT. THE EMIR DECREE THAT TOOK AFFECT A COUPLE OF MONTH AGO IS NOT LAW OF THE LAND. THE JUDGE PRESIDING IN YOUR CASE HAVE THE FINAL SAY IN ALL MATTERS INVOLVING ARBITRATION/LAWSUIT.

IN A NUTSHELL, I AM LOOKING FOR PEOPLE THAT BOUGHT IN THE RED RESIDENCE PROJECT TO TAKE THIS GUY TO COURT. EITHER HE WILL FILE BANKRUPTCY OR WE GET A RESOLUTION. CONTACT ME @ [email protected]>>>>> THIS EMAIL DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL MED WORKERS, PUPPETS THAT BULLY ANYONE THAT SPEAK THE WRONGS DONE BY HIM IN THIS ROOM.


----------



## speculator

baba toto said:


> Regarding your "evidence":
> 
> So who is/are the real rouge state/s?


I'd say those that are lacking in natural resources yet have vast demands on the worlds resources. 

Nothing you say is disagreeable. The US & its cronies make a mockery of the UN and with it world order.


----------



## ryeman

baba toto said:


> Regarding your "evidence":
> 
> "........There was just one major difference between the South Korean and Iranian cases: Iran never enriched uranium at a level that could only represent an interest in nuclear weapons, but South Korea did.
> 
> Yet the IAEA treated Iran as a state to be investigated indefinitely, after failing to give South Korea even a slap on the wrist........"
> 
> Source:
> http://www.truth-out.org/article/the-week-iaea-applied-a-nuclear-double-standard
> 
> 
> So who is/are the real rouge state/s?



The difference is the Iran has declared it's genicide intentions and they are actively procuring nukes. Anyways....back to property.


----------



## amian

Spurs said:


> Hi Amian,
> 
> The developer is desperate and dillusional. I fear they have shown you work that Palisadies have done as the plot for Royal estates is directly behind their cabins.
> 
> Dont throw good money after bad!



iam 100percent sure its theirs. Palisades is to the other side. Iam talking about entering from the sides from the spinneys side. As i earlier said i would have loved to be in a postion to step out of the deal but too much has gone in and for me that is not an option right now. 

Tell me something. Your fear is that the project will not be finished or the price of the project. I know we all were here when the going was good and buying right and left but now since that is not the case so we have changed our line of action. I understand a lot of us are overexposed in this due to the way we went ahead and approached these investments, but now that we are stuck what is our reservation? Are the reservations related to completion of the project or is it the price or is it both?


----------



## FARIBA

Thanks for the info. i've heard the same thing as far as buying in DSC i was told at this time for around AED 700 to 750 i can get a ready unit for example in HUB canal .this is bad news for us so if this the price for the ready one's we have paid, in different projects before much much more well (at least for most people)

i think most of these greedy developers should offer a big discounts to their clients so we can countinue to pay them or else is stupied to pay more money (sorry no effence for anyone who wants to countinue to pay with their original price)


----------



## Spurs

amian said:


> iam 100percent sure its theirs. Palisades is to the other side. Iam talking about entering from the sides from the spinneys side. As i earlier said i would have loved to be in a postion to step out of the deal but too much has gone in and for me that is not an option right now.
> 
> Tell me something. Your fear is that the project will not be finished or the price of the project. I know we all were here when the going was good and buying right and left but now since that is not the case so we have changed our line of action. I understand a lot of us are overexposed in this due to the way we went ahead and approached these investments, but now that we are stuck what is our reservation? Are the reservations related to completion of the project or is it the price or is it both?


My reservation is that all I have heard from ASI is lies. Its supposed to be complete in Dec this year! I dread to think if these guys actually built this project what the standard of quality would be like......They would certainly cut every corner posible.


----------



## baba toto

ryeman said:


> The difference is the Iran has declared it's genicide intentions and they are actively procuring nukes. Anyways....back to property.


Sorry but your misconceptions oblige me to reply. Genocide? What did Iran say to this effect? 

Look at the track record. Iran has never been at war in modern times except with Saddam Hussain's Iraq; Why were they at war, well that's another scandal. Others have invaded a sovereign nation, under false pretext. Is that not genocide?


----------



## methodinmadness

Spurs said:


> My reservation is that all I have heard from ASI is lies. Its supposed to be complete in Dec this year! I dread to think if these guys actually built this project what the standard of quality would be like......They would certainly cut every corner posible.


I completely agree. Anyone willing to pay them more money must be dillusional unless of course you have enough money and dont mind throwing it away! The commercial part of this project (offices, hotel, shops etc.) will not go ahead. Aristocrat will try to make you believe in trading your commercial investment for an appartment or town house. Simple... dont do it. You will loose even more money. They already have and will continue to default on this project. They are only interested in getting *their* money back...not yours! Wake up people!


----------



## methodinmadness

They are having a laugh! How many investors do you think actually received this letter? My guess... only about 20%. So how can they actually say that investors must acknowledge their letter within 20 days!

I think its time Aristocrat Star and its owners were investigated here or in the UK where they hide!





Spurs said:


> They will not see 1 dirham more of my money! They also attached a payment plan from RERA, it was dated 03/02/10 - Why has it taken this long to get this to us???????
> 
> They are playing BIG games here people!
> 
> Dear Valued Customers,
> 
> We, M/s Aristocrat Star Investment would like to thank you all for your unfailing patience and support during these strenuous times and would like to present a comprehensive Progress Report on construction and compliance done by us in our role as the Developer, in compliance with RERA and Land Department guidelines .
> 
> Please note that the construction of the project is in full progress :lol:. We are re doubling our efforts to ensure that we fulfill our commitment towards our valued customers in the best possible time. We have obtained all necessary permissions from the concerned authorities and have done the compliances with regard to the same as per the procedures prescribed by RERA.
> 
> In the light of the various feedback we have received from our valued investors and keeping in mind the current market crisis we are presenting to you the option to strengthen your faith on us and make you feel more secure about your investments with us .We sincerely hope that you take advantage of this options if the same suits you and inform your intend so as to discuss further.
> 
> We would also like to offer you the Construction linked Payment Plan duly approved by the Land Department (RERA) for your kind consideration in the event you wish to switch to a RERA approved plan.
> 
> Please note that failure to receive acknowledgement enclosed herewith within next 20 days from date of this letter with respect to switch over to the RERA approved payment plan shall force us to assume that you desire to abide with the existing payment plan signed by yourself. In such eventuality your payment shall fall due as per the old payment plan.
> 
> Please note that, having already incurred huge expenses on a fully paid Plot and the construction progress attained till date, we shall be forced to initiate cancellation proceedings in the event of your non-payment or non - cooperation disenabling us to keep up to our commitment.
> 
> As you are aware we have a huge development comprising of villas, offices and residential apartments.
> We are more than happy to accommodate shift over’s or consolidations between our developments at agreeable rates on mutual discussions considering the Real Estate market down fall with a view to minimize any loss to our investors.
> We sincerely hope that you shall extend all you cooperation and we look forward to your feedback on the said proposals if deemed necessary by you.
> Customers are kindly reminded to update their contact information when sending us the confirmation of your choice of the payment plan to avoid being excluded from receiving periodical updates regarding the project.
> 
> 
> We would also request you to clear the outstanding payment till date within 30days from the date of this notice and consider this as a final reminder notice for payment. We thank you for your prompt payment and continued support.
> 
> Thanking you.
> 
> 
> Purchasers Acknowledgement
> I,………………………………………………………………………............,address……………………………………………………………………………………………, do hereby express my interest in receiving formal documentation from M/S Aristocrat Star Investment in relation to the revised construction milestone payment plan being offered by M/S Aristocrat Star Investment in respect of my purchase on ‘The Royal Estate’ , Dubai, United Arab Emirates
> Signed by: ………………………………
> Signature:
> Dated:


----------



## speculator

And others have used nukes unnecessarily when the enemy nation was on its knees anyway.

The original poster should refrain from making remarks without substance.

Back to property please.


----------



## amian

methodinmadness said:


> I completely agree. Anyone willing to pay them more money must be dillusional unless of course you have enough money and dont mind throwing it away! The commercial part of this project (offices, hotel, shops etc.) will not go ahead. Aristocrat will try to make you believe in trading your commercial investment for an appartment or town house. Simple... dont do it. You will loose even more money. They already have and will continue to default on this project. They are only interested in getting *their* money back...not yours! Wake up people!



Agreed the commercial part of project is not going through. They have said it themselves. But isnt that the case with all developments which are going through now a days. All the developers want to get out of the shit they are in and recover their money ( at the expense of the investors). We all lose in the end with or without defaulting. So one has to choose between which is a better option for each individual. If you have paid 15% than perfectly fine to leave that investment. But people like me who have paid much more are not in that position to do so ( it will be stupidity to do so for people like me now). I would rather have the project completed at 700 dirhams per sq feet rather than lose the money i have put in.

My loss is less if i go and pay for it rather than letting it go at this stage. So for me its better of the two evils.


----------



## ryeman

speculator said:


> And others have used nukes unnecessarily when the enemy nation was on its knees anyway.
> 
> The original poster should refrain from making remarks without substance.
> 
> Back to property please.


and may I suggest that you follow your own sage advice.


----------



## dubaimat

[QUOTEDubaiiscool]

the Dubai’s Land Department has reported 1,188 sale transactions, compared to 510 sale transactions in the second half of 2009, an increase of approximately 132 per cent.

[url
http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/over-300-property-projects-set-for-completion-2010-09-28-1.296375[/url][/QUOTE]



baba toto said:


> This information would be useful if we knew which areas the increase of transaction activity relates to....


cool? don't think so, those "sale transactions" numbers provided by Dubai’s Land Department are complete bogus as long as they include (overdue) registrations of properties sold long time ago, this is how far their transparency goes


----------



## Freestyler

amian said:


> Agreed the commercial part of project is not going through. They have said it themselves. But isnt that the case with all developments which are going through now a days. All the developers want to get out of the shit they are in and recover their money ( at the expense of the investors). We all lose in the end with or without defaulting. So one has to choose between which is a better option for each individual. If you have paid 15% than perfectly fine to leave that investment. But people like me who have paid much more are not in that position to do so ( it will be stupidity to do so for people like me now). I would rather have the project completed at 700 dirhams per sq feet rather than lose the money i have put in.
> 
> My loss is less if i go and pay for it rather than letting it go at this stage. So for me its better of the two evils.


Why not ask them to allow credit notes. It will lower the cost for people like you and help other get out of the investment at a certain loss. Might work for ASI too since more people will be willing to pay when they are getting credit at a discount.


----------



## Guest

Please give us an update. Understand construction has started again. Hard to believe. Where are they getting the funds from. Please solve the puzzle for us. Waiting for some feedback. Many thanks.
H L Nagpal


----------



## 234sale

RBS Dubai is now owened by ADCB, 

As of 1st Oct 2010, all procedures are now under ADCB's control

Source ADCB branch manager.


----------



## dubaimat

234sale said:


> RBS Dubai is now owened by ADCB,
> 
> As of 1st Oct 2010, all procedures are now under ADCB's control
> 
> Source ADCB branch manager.


nothing new under the sun, this deal was already signed off June 16th 2010

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/590821-adcbs-price-for-rbs-assets-good-risk-seen-in-cards---analyst


----------



## 234sale

Amlak and Emirates Bank Merger then...


----------



## dubaimat

234sale said:


> Amlak and Emirates Bank Merger then...



lol, best one so far, if you know who heads Amlak, would have been the worst case scenario for Tamweel to merge with them.

On the other hand Dubai Bank needs to merge with Emirates Bank to pull this one off, looks to me like the weak ones join forces :cheers:


----------



## liwanowner

Yes, I've read this and no where does it say that Liwan is being prepared for delivery. Realistically, everyone knows, there is no way that we as Liwan owners will get our investments by the end of this year. No way. Therefore, the question is, what are we going to do about it?

Opinions? Thoughts?


----------



## unknownpleasures

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> Article in The National today, whats Super Mario from RERA really saying ..?
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/rera-makes-funding-its-project
> 
> "..The Dubai property regulator hopes to restart as many as 48 stalled developments by working with banks to raise as much as Dh5 billion (US$1.36bn) to help finish them. The Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) has taken the unprecedented step of intervening in the market to help developers of the most advanced projects raise scarce project finance...."
> 
> "...Marwan bin Ghalita, the chief executive of the RERA, said Emirates Islamic Bank had already started providing home finance for buyers in some projects. The 48 projects have not been disclosed but they are all located in Jumeirah Lake Towers, the Marina and Business Bay. "When the crisis happened, all the banks said they are not financing any projects any more," Mr bin Ghalita said. "We came as a government and said finance should resume, but it has to be directed at the right projects."
> 
> "....RERA is overseeing the two-year initiative, called Tayseer, by providing the banks with continuous updates on construction progress and monitoring the use of funds in an escrow account. Money lent to the developers of the projects can be used only for construction, in contrast to 2008 when developers would sometimes use it to buy the land, market the project and pay commissions. "*We are telling the banks to move your finance from end-user finance to project finance," Mr bin Ghalita said on the sidelines of the MENA Real Estate Society conference at the American University of Dubai. "We will help ensure the project will be complete......"*
> 
> Now is Mario stating the banks should lend the developers money so the developers can finish the towers and in turn sell the flats to end users or ? If so, what guarantee would the banks have that the devekopers actually can sell these properties to an end user, especially if the developer is asking for higher than market prices which is usually the case in UAE. In a declining property market I believe both the banks and the end user would hesitate to invest at this time. Too many banks and end users are sitting on negative Dubai property equity already.
> 
> More from Super Mario..
> 
> ".... RERA has chosen the projects based on their infrastructure, the track record of the developer and other elements such as easy access, pricing and financial sustainability. *"We are telling them these are the clean projects," Mr bin Ghalita said.* The move comes after Dubai revealed in a prospectus for a sovereign bond last week that nearly 500 projects had been cancelled or were in the process of being cancelled by the regulator. The full list will be revealed soon, RERA said...."
> 
> I thought being on RERA's approved list would gurantee that already ?! And why cant the list of the 500 cancelled projects be announced now ? Obscurity, lack of consistency, a RERA trademark. The original idea of a regulatory body of Dubai's property market is good but RERA in its present form is not much help to the developers or the investors. Nor to Dubai's general health. A radical change is needed.


^^
Super Mario - a good way of putting it...no wonder nothing works - no one there knows how to deal with anything it appears ... it will be interesting when this list ever gets revealed...nothing ever did before so lets all wait and see if there is going to be a list or is it just called PR and sells the news but nothing much happens after that...not many have the time up their sleeve like RERA has!

*"RERA is overseeing the two-year initiative, called Tayseer, by providing the banks with continuous updates on construction progress and monitoring the use of funds in an escrow account. Money lent to the developers of the projects can be used only for construction, in contrast to 2008 when developers would sometimes use it to buy the land, market the project and pay commissions. "We are telling the banks to move your finance from end-user finance to project finance," Mr bin Ghalita said on the sidelines of the MENA Real Estate Society conference at the American University of Dubai. "We will help ensure the project will be complete.""*
^^

The paragraph is interesting above as dubai investor points out...it's not what the Law 8 of 2007 states ....Escrow was the big thing back then and a safe way of investment however no one took notice of it and RERA did nothing and just purely ignored it...they still ignore it from the many complaints they receive yet they deny receiving any...

Here it is..Law 8 of 2007 Article (9) Point 1 clearly states that : *“The Guarantee Account shall be opened in the name of the project and the proceeds shall be used exclusively for the purposes of constructing the real estate project. The Developer’s creditors are not allowed to attach the money deposited in the Guarantee Account”. *

_*"the proceeds shall be used exclusively for the purposes of constructing the real estate project".*_ So what changed????

Escrow doesn't mean a thing if it wasn't implemented as per Law 8 of 2007 or monitored as it should have been by RERA...it's not the fault of investors that their monies were not put into an account which was to be used for "construction of the project only" not for the purchase of lands or paying commissions...where was RERA...the law came out in 2007 and all had to comply within the 6 months...How many did not and took the money from investors and did not place into Escrow? This is what RERA should be doing isn't it "clamping down on developers"...or perhaps this were they "vowed" and still haven't delivered the list ...how old is this article ..http://www.arabianbusiness.com/property/article/547292-rera-vows-to-name-and-shame-developers sounds like RERA revisted. All talk but no action.

It also means that there is no track record (*"RERA has chosen the projects based on their infrastructure, the track record of the developer and other elements such as easy access, pricing and financial sustainability")*.If nothing previously has ever been completed by the developer even though they had other projects...what guarantee can RERA provide? Absolutely none from my understanding.

*“from the date of publication for developers to comply with its requirements and all persons and entities to which the Escrow law applied must comply with it by 28 Dec 2007 – “All developers who sell units off-plan (whether the development is in the planning or the construction phase) and receive payments from buyers or financiers before completion of the development” August 2007*


----------



## noir-dresses

From what I see the cityscape show is a total flop. 

It all come's down to " No Investor's equal's the Vision is not Possible ".

Back to the drawing board for them.


----------



## dubaimarina2008

Why to invest if RERA can not quarantee investors rights? I have waited many years now my property.


----------



## noir-dresses

dubaimarina2008 said:


> Why to invest if RERA can not quarantee investors rights? I have waited many years now my property.


Exactly, they need RERA to do what they were meant to do, fix visa rule's, easy mortgage, etc, etc to get thing's back on track if they wish to have The Vision.

Time is not on their side, cause most investor's will not invest money, lot's of people will sell, leave, and never to come back.

We all know how to read between the line's now.


----------



## unknownpleasures

RERA is meant to keep the "b's" honest and that to date from my understanding never has this been the case.

Perhaps this may all inspire you ..... http://www.scribd.com/doc/11393474/Petition-Property-Investor-Group-to-RERA-Dubai-January-2009

Nothing has changed since this was written and ever will..

The drawing board is where they all need to go...if people didn't know much about Dubai back in 2007 regarding investments they certainly know a lot more including the reports from the local media about it now...Lesson learnt by many the hard way and for this Dubai will be paying for eons to come...


----------



## unknownpleasures

Quieter...one can only imagine why..
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/city...ut-price-property-deals-355170.html?message=2


----------



## noir-dresses

It's not even Dubai that can't sell new unit's, Abu Dhabi can't sell off plan to, so their vision is in serious doubt.

AD wealth fund has the money to pay off all of Dubai's debt to the last penny. That's what I would do just to get that monkey off my shoulder. AD also has the power to fix the visa issue, and give the bank's the power to start lending.

RERA can be fixed as well.


----------



## unknownpleasures

There is one solution to all of this...a resolve...the only people that can do this are the ones that have the stables full of...well it's not hard to guess.


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://gulfnews.com/pictures/business/property-showcased-at-cityscape-in-dubai-1.691566

It's a challenge, not a recession...and of course we are back...doesn't look too happy in any of the pics taken here...perhaps the challenge has been too much...looks kind of empty except for the few dressed in white..


----------



## True Blue

I watched a program on UK tv a few nights ago which highlighted the horror of pension investments. The Panorama program gave examples of people who had invested in pension products expecting a decent return on retirement. In some cases the charges, fee and commissions were so high that the pension fund was lower than the amount invested. A financial adviser explained how the money becomes food for the vultures in the financial markets and that if you do not monitor closely then you could be losing it all to these bottom feeders in the markets.

This made me worried as I have a diversified portfolio which includes my Dubai properties and large cash investments. The property purchases have done very well for me and provide a double digit return whereas my managed funds looked after by HBOS and Aegon have performed terribly being worth £50k less at one point than what I had invested. Looks like I have placed too much trust in these financial institutions to look after my money. According to the program, the fund managers may well chose investments which give them the best "kick backs" and rebates at my expense. 

It certainly looks like the future of investment will involve a lack of trust and close monitoring of any funds you have entrusted to your fundmanager or developer. There will always be a demand for property rentals in Dubai, if you invest in the right product that is not packaged up by vulture, bottom feeders and others making high commisions out of your money then you will outperform the investment markets which are clearly full of people out to make a nice living off you.


----------



## unknownpleasures

shares or any other sort of investment are always a calculated risk and any financial advisor cannot guarantee anything in that regard, most people would know about this...however in complete contrast an investment in property has never been considered a bad risk in general speaking terms including off plans as it is expected that it will be completed by the due date...a contract is what a contract delivers in general speaking terms...shares or other sorts do not have contracts from my understanding...the only time it has been a bad risk is when most considered it to be a safe investment outside of their own country however this is not how it was being portrayed by the keeper of the stables other than being very safe...and of course dressed in white...the men in black is what is required to sort this mess out once and for all and stop the pussy footing going on! The problem is that not only the UK investors have been affected, here you will find people from everywhere who believed what was being said including the protection of Escrow. The only property that is safe and you really do not know how much anyone will get for it now since the slump and if it's something completed then perhaps that's a little different other than this you can kiss your hard earned cash goodbye. RERA was to be the protector...instead it turned out to full of spin itself....you can't have this body protecting an outsider, in this case the investor. They protect those who pay them their fees...RERA is like a union is it not? Membership is a requirement for brokers/agents/developers?


----------



## Spurs

*Escrow*

Here it is..Law 8 of 2007 Article (9) Point 1 clearly states that : “The Guarantee Account shall be opened in the name of the project and the proceeds shall be used exclusively for the purposes of constructing the real estate project. The Developer’s creditors are not allowed to attach the money deposited in the Guarantee Account”. 

"the proceeds shall be used exclusively for the purposes of constructing the real estate project". 

How can we find out what money is left in the account??? I think this would be a BIG clue to where we stand!


----------



## 234sale

bizzybonita said:


> Freehold sales to remain soft
> 
> Around 12,000 apartments expected to enter market in six months
> 
> October 6, 2010
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/freehold-sales-to-remain-soft-1.692247


The issue is how to fund the final installment on those 12,000 or so units coming on line.

On average the 

Sales Price was 1.4M AED,

Final Payment 40%

Thats approx *6.72 BILLION AED* required in the next 6 months for finnacing those final installments.

Yep thats right, the Banking system needs $2,000,000,000 USD in the next 6 months


----------



## unknownpleasures

doesn't help if the banks aren't lending either...no trust in the market means complete shutdown!


----------



## 234sale

unknownpleasures said:


> doesn't help if the banks aren't lending either...no trust in the market means complete shutdown!



I think you are missing the point,, 

1. They can't lend as how can they have access to this money. 2 Billion USD just for the next 6 months..

2. Why lend when you know the prices will decrease, likely defaults.


Trust doesn't come into it, 

As the X-files said,,, "Trust No One"


----------



## dubaimarina2008

I think investors need a VERY strict RERA leader, who will force developers discipline and order.


----------



## unknownpleasures

234sale said:


> I think you are missing the point,,
> 
> 1. They can't lend as how can they have access to this money. 2 Billion USD just for the next 6 months..
> 
> 2. Why lend when you know the prices will decrease, likely defaults.
> 
> 
> Trust doesn't come into it,
> 
> As the X-files said,,, "Trust No One"


^^
lots have missed the boat...I'm not missing anything...just stating what is happening out there...banks are not lending because they know there is a risk...that was my point!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Well I guess Super Mario has missed a few in his day, no wonder the place is a mess...being one sided doesn't provide any joyful decrees.....or should I say cries...oh speaking of decrees...yes even SM has no idea what direction he needs to go ....one day he says this, the next it's that and still nothing changes and so forth...it's a never ending cycle of 360 turn arounds...yes and you have to rely on tv shows for the answers...good one Sale...i think that's usable here now..."trust no one".


----------



## Free Time

TB, I saw just half the Panorama programme. In my opinion, they did not identify the bigger problem i.e. poor diversification (& poor/unimaginative advice) resulting in lousy performance. Most people with their pensions, ISAs etc. are invested in stock market type funds. Over the last 10 years stockmarkets have gone hardly anywhere; FTSE is only about 20-25% higher compared to 10 years ago! Obviously, excessive charges and commissions make a bad problem worse, but are not the fundamental problem.


----------



## vaksa

noir-dresses said:


> RERA is one of the key eliment's.
> 
> It's like a lion with no teeth, a bull with no ball's, an eagle with no sight, and a German with no precision.


Or like noir-dresses with no apostrophe key on the keyboard


----------



## noir-dresses

vaksa said:


> Or like noir-dresses with no apostrophe key on the keyboard


Oh well, that's the down side of living abroad for twenty year's, not to mention all the broken english I dish out so people can understand me. 

I are good in english.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Not good news for this one...not good for sports city...this is a damn shame.....I'm sure the Al Jassmy is the same contractor as for Oasis Towers...maybe they have left this one and gone there - could that be possible?


----------



## unknownpleasures

234sale said:


> One department I would like to congratulate the Dubai Goverment on is the Rental Comittee.
> 
> I think everyone would agree, what they do is fair,
> 
> RERA could be run in such a swift and reasonable way, IMO


Is it connected with RERA? If not then maybe there is hope...


----------



## unknownpleasures

nijushiho said:


> On a sultry June evening in 2007, more than 100 people camped out at the offices of Emaar, a prestigious Dubai property developer, to ensure that they would land a coveted spot in a gleaming new skyscraper scheduled for opening this year near the Burj Khalifa, the world’s tallest building.
> Today, the property, designed by the New York architect Frank Williams, who died this year, is, like a number of others around Dubai, little more than a rotting foundation. Its value has plunged by more than 40 percent since 2008, after the collapse of Dubai’s real estate boom.
> “It’s really a disaster, the situation in Dubai,” said Silvia Turrin, a real estate agent who bought into the property, 29 Boulevard, and has been unable to get her money out. “It’s not like in Western countries — it’s very difficult to exit here if there’s a problem. And we’ll never get our money back, but now we’re stuck dealing with this hole.”
> Dubai lured people to a gold rush in sought-after properties at the height of its real estate boom — including business and political leaders from Afghanistan who invested the deposits from Kabul Bank, one of the country’s largest. The near-collapse of the bank in September was largely a result.
> At the time, few asked if there was a legal framework for resolving potential disputes. Now, with the glitter gone, interviews with investors, legal experts and real estate analysts here show that many who bought in are finding it hard to get out.
> Despite the construction delay, Emaar is still holding the down payments of as much as 80 percent required to secure an apartment, Ms. Turrin and other property holders said. And Dubai’s opaque property laws have made it virtually impossible for those who bought in to walk away, even as interest accumulates on their construction loans.
> In a statement, Emaar acknowledged that 29 Boulevard was still “under construction” but said that it upheld transparency standards and had “taken several proactive measures to address the concerns of investors on developments that are in the pipeline.”
> It said those measures included the option of purchasing other completed properties. Investors, however, say the properties being offered are in some cases smaller, less attractive, and more highly priced than those they agreed to buy.
> Emaar is not the only developer with similar problems. Scores of other buildings around Dubai are well past their delivery date, or have yet to be started. Apartment buyers who made down payments for property construction are unable to find out what is happening with their funds, these people said. Bank loans held on undelivered property often cannot be forfeited, and borrowers have had to pay higher interest rates even as banks have refused to let them walk away from the mortgage.
> “The rules of the game are definitely opaque here,” said an investor who has bought several properties in Dubai and who insisted on anonymity because of talks with developers and regulators. “In the United States, I would know my legal position much more clearly and could take actions if necessary.”
> Most developers have also thwarted the formation of owners’ associations that could take control of their building’s finances and ensure the transparent management of condo fees, which many owners say are used by developers to take in yet more money.
> Dubai has compressed decades’ worth of real estate development into the last 15 years. But the legal framework for resolving property disputes, and the nature of the contracts themselves, are still as incomplete as many of the buildings around town, analysts said.
> “Dubai has evolved rapidly in just a short time,” said Graham Coutts, the head of Middle East management services at Jones Lang LaSalle. “The legal system is evolving with it.”
> Still, concerns about resolving disputes here are mounting, even as developers struggle to find foreign and domestic investors for what has now become one of the largest property overhangs in the world.
> Commercial real estate vacancies in particular are still rising.
> Although about 70 percent of empty lots from three years ago have been filled, the construction of new real estate since then has far outstripped the purchases, more than doubling the amount of vacant space available, said Timothy Trask, the director of corporate ratings at Standard & Poors in Dubai.
> Dubai is not the first place where soaring ambitions have outpaced reality. Shanghai, Singapore and Hong Kong all suffered from overbuilding within relatively short time frames. But these places were able to curb their real estate overhangs by drastically reducing construction until demand picked up.
> Building is continuing in Dubai, however, even though potential corporate tenants are showing little interest in developments like the Dubai Silicon Oasis or the Jumeirah Lake Towers, an 85-building development that looks like a Las Vegas-version of lower Manhattan planted on the fringes of the desert. Jones Lang LaSalle recently proposed that some buildings should simply be sealed for the next five years, until buyers return.
> Even if investors eventually respond to slumping prices, they would still have to be wary of contracts and vigilant about how legal disputes in Dubai are resolved, said Ludmila Yamalova, a managing partner at the law firm HPL Plewka & Coll, who handles lawsuits for individual and commercial property investors.
> She recently sued Damac Properties, one of Dubai’s biggest builders, on behalf of a German investor who claims that from 2006 onward he invested nearly $10 million in five off-plan properties that were not delivered on time. The investor, Lothar Hardt, has also claimed that the developer mismanaged escrow accounts related to the properties and that he lost money by signing contracts with retailers who planned to set up shop in the buildings.
> Ms. Yamalova is now trying to bring suit in a court run by the Dubai International Financial Center, a government body set up to attract investors, which operates largely on British-based law and is independent of the opaque Dubai court system, where cases are conducted in Arabic and plaintiffs must go through local Emirati representatives.
> Dubai’s real estate regulators have issued a flurry of rules since 2008 to clarify the situation and to comfort potential investors. But new rules sometimes contradict others issued just months earlier, often in ways that leave developers with the advantage and property buyers in a legal limbo, *making many wary of ever investing in Dubai again,* Ms. Yamalova said.
> Mr. Coutts, the Jones Lang LaSalle executive, said that because Dubai grew so fast, the government was learning on the job. In more mature markets, “you had 200 years to develop a legal framework,” he said. “It’s now becoming clearer what kind of a legal framework is needed to regulate development here.”
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/business/global/07dubaibuild.html?src=mv&ref=business


^^
This says it as it is! It's not a challenge it's a disaster!


----------



## Beppe786

it touched 1.60 to the £1 today.. good time to buy?


----------



## chriskearney1

*MED*

I just checked my files and I do have signed and approved 50% financing agreements with MED. My contracts also specifically require a hotel be constructed. I know that MED is trying to presuade folks away from the hotel (probably to avoid the 8% guarantee), but my contract is quite clear on both the hotel and 8% guarantee.


----------



## worried4

*Contract??*



chriskearney1 said:


> I just checked my files and I do have signed and approved 50% financing agreements with MED. My contracts also specifically require a hotel be constructed. I know that MED is trying to presuade folks away from the hotel (probably to avoid the 8% guarantee), but my contract is quite clear on both the hotel and 8% guarantee.


Contract does not matter here in Dubai and guarantee less so.:bash:


----------



## worried4

*Details*



THE SHADOWCASTER said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I have been in contact with MED quite alot recently including a visit to their offices and was not altogether pleased with the info that I was given. There is still plenty of waffling going on. The long and short is that face to face I got fobbed off with answers that I wanted to hear and as soon as I got home again the promises had all changed again. The basics that I gathered are as follows: It is no longer likely to be an "apart/hotel" although I was told that they will go with the majority once figures hit 80/20 in favour of purely residential. They are also steering us away from the 8% guarantee, stating that we would be so much better off renting apartments out ourselves. The apartments will not be furnished but will be in an immediately "rentable" condition. (don't know if this includes even a fitted kitchen)
> They appear to have pretty much backed out of the finance agreement actually going as far as to show me that my finance agreement although initialled by myself and my partner, was never actually signed by MED! (VERY SNEAKY) As someone posted earlier how on earth can a 50 Dirham per Sq/Ft discount be just when their base price per Sq/Ft is so inflated and that is meant to serve as compensation for the fact that we have lost a five star furntiure package!
> I was also being persuaded to move from a one Bedroom to a Studio as there was a better possibility of still getting finance (I paid 50% outright at the beginning) when I returned home I was told that this option was not currently available and there would be no finance! I was also told that it was never meant to be a hotel (which is certainly not how it was marketed to me!)
> The bottom line is it's all a huge mess but the only potentially sensible solution to all of this for myself is a merge with some else in a One Bedroom who has already paid 50% (that way there is no more outlay and we can deal with what to do with the property once it is complete) Anyone who might seriously consider this as an option for themselves could reply privately to engage in further discussion. I believe a few people have already had some papers drawn up and done this already with adequate protection for both parties. Isn't it ironic that i would now feel safer considering to engage in negotiations with a complete stranger from this site than i do having any further dealings with the supposed reputable company that sold me the property in the first place!
> This has been a horrendous experience for us all and i just want to try to resolve the issue without handing over any more cash and hopefully retrieve something of my life savings which I have given to these jokers.



Please post generic details as to how this collaboration will work


----------



## Josau

The New York Times article posted by nijushioho http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/bu...v&ref=business
is being printed in newspapers all over the world. I just saw it in a Japanese newspaper under the headline: THE QUICKSANDS OF DUBAI REAL ESTATE. Not a good publicity for the emirate, but in my view a possible incentive for the Dubai government to speed up to create a much better, much needed legal framework for real estate. They need to move quickly if they ever want to get confidence back.


----------



## Pleth

noir-dresses said:


> RERA is one of the key eliment's.
> 
> It's like a lion with no teeth, a bull with no ball's, an eagle with no sight, and a German with no precision.


Bravo! ^^


----------



## Pleth

dubaimarina2008 said:


> I think investors need a VERY strict RERA leader, who will force developers discipline and order.


:applause:


----------



## 234sale

noir-dresses said:


> RERA is one of the key eliment's.
> 
> It's like a lion with no teeth, a bull with no ball's, an eagle with no sight, and a German with no precision.


Maybe, but they all still can kill, harm or function..


----------



## Jovan01

I have been informed that Antony Joyce is currently negotiating with MED. MED are promising to reinstate the 50% finance and the 8% rental guarantee . No investor should pay the next instalment which is coming due until some definite agreements in stone have been made. 

Power is in numbers and we all need to stand united. For those serious investors make sure you are registered with Antony Joyce solicitors and let them do all the negotiation on our behalf.


----------



## Jovan01

THE SHADOWCASTER said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I have been in contact with MED quite alot recently including a visit to their offices and was not altogether pleased with the info that I was given. There is still plenty of waffling going on. The long and short is that face to face I got fobbed off with answers that I wanted to hear and as soon as I got home again the promises had all changed again. The basics that I gathered are as follows: It is no longer likely to be an "apart/hotel" although I was told that they will go with the majority once figures hit 80/20 in favour of purely residential. They are also steering us away from the 8% guarantee, stating that we would be so much better off renting apartments out ourselves. The apartments will not be furnished but will be in an immediately "rentable" condition. (don't know if this includes even a fitted kitchen)
> They appear to have pretty much backed out of the finance agreement actually going as far as to show me that my finance agreement although initialled by myself and my partner, was never actually signed by MED! (VERY SNEAKY) As someone posted earlier how on earth can a 50 Dirham per Sq/Ft discount be just when their base price per Sq/Ft is so inflated and that is meant to serve as compensation for the fact that we have lost a five star furntiure package!
> I was also being persuaded to move from a one Bedroom to a Studio as there was a better possibility of still getting finance (I paid 50% outright at the beginning) when I returned home I was told that this option was not currently available and there would be no finance! I was also told that it was never meant to be a hotel (which is certainly not how it was marketed to me!)
> The bottom line is it's all a huge mess but the only potentially sensible solution to all of this for myself is a merge with some else in a One Bedroom who has already paid 50% (that way there is no more outlay and we can deal with what to do with the property once it is complete) Anyone who might seriously consider this as an option for themselves could reply privately to engage in further discussion. I believe a few people have already had some papers drawn up and done this already with adequate protection for both parties. Isn't it ironic that i would now feel safer considering to engage in negotiations with a complete stranger from this site than i do having any further dealings with the supposed reputable company that sold me the property in the first place!
> This has been a horrendous experience for us all and i just want to try to resolve the issue without handing over any more cash and hopefully retrieve something of my life savings which I have given to these jokers.


I would like to speak to you in private. Please provide contact detatails.


----------



## bizzybonita

cayman1 said:


> Last month it was revealed that 495 of the 980 projects registered with the emirate’s Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) have been scrapped.
> 
> Is there a way to know the list of cancelled projects ?


I couldn't find it right now but there is a news regard cancellation of project by RERA .

*209 projects under study

«Real Estate Regulatory» liquidate 88 projects in Dubai*

Source:

* Dubai's Emirates Today

Date: October 9, 2010

Detect Executive Director of the Real Estate Regulatory Agency in Dubai, Mr. Marwan bin Ghalaita, that «*the institution is currently studying cancel 209 projects, and that a final decision on liquidation was adopted for 88 of them, and they are distributed among developers secondary, developers Co*», considering that the real estate sector in Dubai has become more mature, organized and secure, and it is no longer possible to leave things pending since before the crisis, during which no solutions.

He said in an interview with the program «the Gulf economy» which was broadcast on Dubai TV last night, that the Land Department in Dubai introduced last week, a section for the liquidation of real estate projects, provides for developers who want to liquidate their business service similar to those available to commercial companies the next filter.

He explained that «the new section examines all aspects of the project the candidate for the filter, such as the number of its investors, and the value of its assets, and milestones reached by, in addition to the obligations owed by the developer, and assets in the escrow account, before the start of the liquidation process», saying that the cancellation of projects Not only goal of the newly created Department, but the goal is to find solutions for developers defaulting to ensure the continuation of their contractual relationship with investors.

He added that the easiest solution which did not have recourse to the institution, is the cancellation of the project and submitted to the Legal Affairs, stressing that the cancellation of the order to plan an optimal real estate sector in Dubai, and to get rid of projects that are not feasible for the Emirate, and to find solutions to investors who believed in the vision controller Dubai and they have invested for it.

The manner in which the operations of the liquidation proceeding and principles which govern it, said Ben Ghalaita they are consensual and are complementary among all parties, indicating that the basis upon which the property is the preservation of rights, both for the investor or developer.

He stated that the Foundation is also working to complete projects that had not been completed, and it launched an initiative for this purpose «facilitate», in order to optimize routing of real estate finance, by ensuring that transparent and clear information about the Bank-funded real estate projects in Dubai.

He noted that 40 projects belonging to 25 developer will benefit from this initiative in three areas of Dubai, is the «Business Bay», and «Dubai Marina», and «Jumeirah Lake Towers».

http://www.emaratalyoum.com/business/local/2010-10-09-1.301330


----------



## amplesou

Hi rob!
any news re starting this again !
there in 2 weeks i might have a go myself then (half term and al)
If you do go, don,t forget to check out" Ferrari world "opening on the 28th of this month in abu dhabi, its only up the road :nuts:
Fingers crossed for you 
Memon! go get um !


oh by the way check out http://www.skyscraperlist.com/forumdisplay.php?139-Dubai-Sports-City
will have loads of updates on DSC, please rob consider joining this forum also (no idiots i promise!)
:cheers:


----------



## nijushiho

*Cityscape Dubai renamed Cityscape Global*

Today ...Dubai name is such a bad name in the real easte that they renamed the exhibition: Cityscape Dubai renamed Cityscape Global
Onions always smell, you can peel off a new layer, it still smells onion.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11508923


----------



## gerald.d

^^









Give it up Herve.


----------



## 234sale

Seeing as only a hand full of new projects in Dubai, Cityscape can never be what it was.

P.S The Onion smell was probably coming from the for La Defense, Paris,,


----------



## noir-dresses

Nice bike, to bad the guy has a girl's bike. 

It's not very important if no new project's were launched, or sold at Cityscpape. What matter's is that all the old project's get finished properly, infrastructure keep's being built, find a solution to the visa issue, bank's start lending with reasonable rate's, property law become's more cristalized, RERA start's doing what they were meant to do, maintenance, and service fee's don't blow out of proportion, and obviously the local's are happy with the expat's in their country.

We also need a lot of project's to be formally cancelled so the over supply can be obsorbed, and a more normal rate of expansion can continue with more regulation so we never see the value of property drop to abnormal level's any more.


----------



## Pleth

gerald.d said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Funny photo, certainly not from Dubai,,,
with the depressing brown wall behind him
the horrible grafitti on the wall
and the winter coat (reminds me how I use to freeze when I lived in Europe). 

We don't have this here in Dubai. :banana::banana:


----------



## dubaifirst

Can someone please post a copy of a tenancy agreement? there was one posted here few months ago but cant locate it, thanks in advance.


----------



## 234sale

^^

http://www.skyscraperlist.com/admindocs/TenancyAgreement.pdf


----------



## dubaifirst

Thanks very much .


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Rera chief blames media for real estate sector woes*

_*Incorrect reporting has affected market sentiments, Ghalita*_

By Sameh Awadallah and Parag Deulgaonkar | Published Sunday, October 10, 2010









_Rera chief blames media for 'realty' woes. (FILE)_

Media is to be blamed for the "damage" of Dubai's real estate, says Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) chief.

"The real estate sector in Dubai has been hurt by the journalists and media publishing incorrect data on the market. The media is blamed for rising real estate prices... as correct data has never been published," Marwan bin Ghalita told a conference on Sunday.

"They did not check the accuracy... did not get the correct information which is one of the prime foundations for making any decision. Journalists did not approach official sources to get the right picture."

In 2007 and 2008, projects were being announced on a daily basis with listed and private developers announcing billion-dollar worth projects at press conferences. At the peak of the real estate boom, Dubai had over 850 registered developers, which now have declined to 500.

According to the Government of Dubai's update on bond prospectus, filed at the London Stock Exchange, around 307 property projects of the 980 registered projects in Dubai are expected to get completed in due course. The number of registered projects which have either been cancelled, or are in process of being cancelled, or on which work has otherwise stopped, equals 495. The agency has not officially announced cancellation of any project.

The only time Rera came out with official supply statistics was in February 2009. It then said 29,319 residential units were delivered in 2008, with 31,003 and 43,880 units set to enter the market in 2009 and 2010, respectively

Ghalita called on journalists to educate themselves on the current affairs of the real estate sector and urged transparency in the media sector.

"Everyone was making profit from buying and selling in 2007-2008. But now the situation has changed... three years after Rera's establishment, the market has now become more transparent," he added.

_Emirates 24|7_


----------



## MrMida

*Kensington Royal Update and questions*

Hi,

I have also purchased within KR and have been made aware of all these outrages changes to the origional investment.

I have been informed that it was NEVER marketed or sold as a 5* hotel. They have gone to the toruble of calling me an outright liar by saying that it was and that i have no proof of this. I sent them emails from their own staff that mentioned that it was a hotel only to be told that they use the word hotel and apartment interchangably in Dubai!! They also stated that we did not pay ANY excess for that fact that it was a hotel and that this was a going price for an apartment in dubai!

The person who sold the apartment to me has completely disappeared and is no longer contactable!!

I have also be advised to move away from the 8% rental guarentee and take the 50dirham discount. Can someone clarify if the apartment will still come furnished?

Also, i have been informed that if i dont take them up on the 50dirham offer, I will not be able to sell my apartment for the next 20 years as I will enter into an agreement! they stated that this is part of my origional agreement. Can anyone clarify this? I do not ever recall such an agreement.

As far as compensation goes, MED were very rude to me and told me i will not recieve a penny of compensation as the laws in Dubai are very developer friendly and that while development is ongoing RERA or the courts will always favour the developers.
They are adament that the 950/sqm is a good price and it is not possible to pay anything less for a comparable.

MED have made it clear that if i do not pay the next 6th floor installment, then i have forfeited my contract and I will lose everything that I have paid to date. I am paying according to the development progress. Can they do this even though they have lied to us all this time?


----------



## worried4

*What happened to your solicitor*



MrMida said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have also purchased within KR and have been made aware of all these outrages changes to the origional investment.
> 
> I have been informed that it was NEVER marketed or sold as a 5* hotel. They have gone to the toruble of calling me an outright liar by saying that it was and that i have no proof of this. I sent them emails from their own staff that mentioned that it was a hotel only to be told that they use the word hotel and apartment interchangably in Dubai!! They also stated that we did not pay ANY excess for that fact that it was a hotel and that this was a going price for an apartment in dubai!
> 
> The person who sold the apartment to me has completely disappeared and is no longer contactable!!
> 
> I have also be advised to move away from the 8% rental guarentee and take the 50dirham discount. Can someone clarify if the apartment will still come furnished?
> 
> Also, i have been informed that if i dont take them up on the 50dirham offer, I will not be able to sell my apartment for the next 20 years as I will enter into an agreement! they stated that this is part of my origional agreement. Can anyone clarify this? I do not ever recall such an agreement.
> 
> As far as compensation goes, MED were very rude to me and told me i will not recieve a penny of compensation as the laws in Dubai are very developer friendly and that while development is ongoing RERA or the courts will always favour the developers.
> They are adament that the 950/sqm is a good price and it is not possible to pay anything less for a comparable.
> 
> MED have made it clear that if i do not pay the next 6th floor installment, then i have forfeited my contract and I will lose everything that I have paid to date. I am paying according to the development progress. Can they do this even though they have lied to us all this time?


Mr Midha, you had a year or so ago posted that you were on your way to see your solicitor...... What happened???!!!


----------



## Beppe786

any know if the rate of the pound is gonna drop or get better after the 20th oct cuts backs?


----------



## Mistermark

Beppe786 said:


> any know if the rate of the pound is gonna drop or get better after the 20th oct cuts backs?


I can't predict the future, but the likelihood is that the market will take it as a good sign. Plus the Eurozone's difficulties aren't lessening, and there's a risk of a downward currency war affecting many other nations, so on balance Sterling looks like a safe haven and I'd bet on it strengthening further against a basket of currencies, and the Dollar weakening.


----------



## agod

gerald.d said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give it up Herve.



He is in the Borough Market Saaaf London, I have even bought some from him.

Al


----------



## chriskearney1

*MED*

If you have the same contract as I do, the Addendum clearly speaks to a 5 star hotel in section 4.1. Further the agreement does last for 20 years. You can certainly sell during that timeframe but you or any purchaser must remain in the rental program for 20 years.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Parisian Girl said:


> _*Incorrect reporting has affected market sentiments, Ghalita*_
> 
> By Sameh Awadallah and Parag Deulgaonkar | Published Sunday, October 10, 2010
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Rera chief blames media for 'realty' woes. (FILE)_
> 
> Media is to be blamed for the "damage" of Dubai's real estate, says Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) chief.
> 
> "The real estate sector in Dubai has been hurt by the journalists and media publishing incorrect data on the market. The media is blamed for rising real estate prices... as correct data has never been published," Marwan bin Ghalita told a conference on Sunday.
> 
> "They did not check the accuracy... did not get the correct information which is one of the prime foundations for making any decision. Journalists did not approach official sources to get the right picture."
> 
> In 2007 and 2008, projects were being announced on a daily basis with listed and private developers announcing billion-dollar worth projects at press conferences. At the peak of the real estate boom, Dubai had over 850 registered developers, which now have declined to 500.
> 
> According to the Government of Dubai's update on bond prospectus, filed at the London Stock Exchange, around 307 property projects of the 980 registered projects in Dubai are expected to get completed in due course. The number of registered projects which have either been cancelled, or are in process of being cancelled, or on which work has otherwise stopped, equals 495. The agency has not officially announced cancellation of any project.
> 
> The only time Rera came out with official supply statistics was in February 2009. It then said 29,319 residential units were delivered in 2008, with 31,003 and 43,880 units set to enter the market in 2009 and 2010, respectively
> 
> Ghalita called on journalists to educate themselves on the current affairs of the real estate sector and urged transparency in the media sector.
> 
> "Everyone was making profit from buying and selling in 2007-2008. But now the situation has changed... three years after Rera's establishment, the market has now become more transparent," he added.
> 
> _Emirates 24|7_


^^
RERA in the news yet again!


----------



## unknownpleasures

234sale said:


> Seeing as only a hand full of new projects in Dubai, Cityscape can never be what it was.
> 
> P.S The Onion smell was probably coming from the for La Defense, Paris,,


^^
hope it was coming from an onion tart coz they taste real nice

PS: I think that's because there is no confidence left...no one is interested in losing any more than many have already!


----------



## unknownpleasures

noir-dresses said:


> In a way the real estate market was like a pyramid scheme. Those who bought first, and sold were lucky, and those who bought later got screwed.
> 
> Let's hope that the legal frame work in Dubai become's more in touch with the situation.


^^
There is brilliance in your comment...many also think this was the case.

Instead of RERA blaming others RERA should get off their behinds and start blaming themselves!


----------



## Beppe786

Mistermark said:


> I can't predict the future, but the likelihood is that the market will take it as a good sign. Plus the Eurozone's difficulties aren't lessening, and there's a risk of a downward currency war affecting many other nations, so on balance Sterling looks like a safe haven and I'd bet on it strengthening further against a basket of currencies, and the Dollar weakening.


thanks i was thinking that same.. ill wait see what happens


----------



## tvindfa

chriskearney1 said:


> If you have the same contract as I do, the Addendum clearly speaks to a 5 star hotel in section 4.1. Further the agreement does last for 20 years. You can certainly sell during that timeframe but you or any purchaser must remain in the rental program for 20 years.


Hi all of you. I have followed your different views for a long time and feel now I would like to join you as MED is really a big mess without any credibility. I came into this project quite late and paid far too much and loosing any rental income will be a disaster as 8% will give me appr AED 120 K annually for a 2 bed apartment. As I understand MED has slimmed this project into max 1 bedroom apartments and will run away from their rental guarantee. Pressently we are lucky if we can get AED 40 K annually for this kiind of apartments on the free market. This will probably be lower as more apartments will be finished during the next 2 years. Contracts in this area is just a piece of shit and will not be followed by any developer as soon as they have financing problems. RERA is just another instrument pretending to help investors, but have no impact on these greedy developers. Have all of you joined Antony Joyce & Co? How do they act on our behalf and what do you think they can achieve in favour of us? I believe that they have problems facing this kind of totally lack of justice meeting foreign investors if not most of investors in KR join this group. I have some experience form a Tower nearby, The Crescent which is finished, but we could not negotiate with Damac before we all stuck together and here we really gave Damac a hard day. Things are working much better now event though we have a lot more to achieve. I think we through Joyce should establish our own common emailadress to avoid MED following all our frustration and start a more powerful fight against Tarik and his likeable. We did that at The Crescent. Await your comments


----------



## g-dust

*Few Dubai developers ready for strata law*
Bradley Hope

Last Updated: Oct 12, 2010

A requirement that all developers in Dubai be compliant with the strata regulations comes into force on Wednesday, but just a fraction of companies are ready, lawyers say.

"If I was doing a survey of developers, I'd say that the ones that are generally at the front of the pack with getting things done represent maybe 5 to 10 per cent of my clients," said Shahram Safai, a partner at the law firm Afridi & Angell in Dubai.

"The remaining [companies] fall across the spectrum from those who refuse to comply to those who have it on their list but are not hurrying." The strata law governs how homeowners deal with and pay for the upkeep of jointly owned property, such as lobbies and elevators, in buildings.

Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) has said that six months from the release of its regulations on April 13, all developers with finished buildings have to file paperwork that details the jointly owned property in their buildings and begin the process of forming homeowners associations.

The process of becoming compliant could cost Dh300,000 (US$81,600) for a small building and more than Dh1 million for a large tower, Mr Safai said, describing the cost as a burden for companies during the property downturn. "Had they dealt with this at the time of sale, they would have factored the added cost into the sales price," he said. "Now you're faced with hiring a quantity surveyor, an engineer, a lawyer, a strata manager to get compliant."

Still, Marwan bin Ghalita, the chief executive of RERA, said at an event in Dubai on October 3 that there would be no deadline extension for developers. If they failed to meet their obligations under the law, they would be subject to fines. To Mr bin Ghalita, the larger challenge was explaining to homebuyers how important the strata law was to the entire property economy. Across Dubai, hundreds of homeowners have stopped paying maintenance fees in their buildings because of the lack of transparency over how the money is used. The situation is causing buildings to fall into disrepair faster than they should and could ultimately result in greater costs for owners.


Mr Safai said the introduction of a fully functioning strata law system would mark the end of the reign of developers and the beginning of homeowner ascendancy. "It is a major power shift, and in my mind it is a dawn of a new era," he said. "We are going to see owners flexing their muscles, questioning how things were built, how they are run, the choice of subcontractors … Here is where the era [will have] shifted from developers to the owners."

[email protected]


----------



## dubaiprojects

Can some one post a link to Burj Duba/Khalifa completion in skyscrapercity forums?


----------



## BH2559

I am with the Anthony Joyce action group. And although we have had some 'positive' results from our representation after reading some of the recent posts here I am still extremely sceptical that they will ever honour anything they promise or agree to. MED are so inconsistent with their stories and promises now one has just got to be a cynic when dealing with them. 

They are incredible. The reneging on the furniture package is a new one they've thrown into the pot. Changing of bedrooms and layouts. No it's not a condo-hotel. No there is no rental guarantee and so on...

I think now I'd rather take the tortuous route of gaining money back from blatent material breech of contract rather than give them another cent!

All I can say at this stage is if you are not in the group join now! The more involved the stronger bargaining position we'll be in. We are already a sizeable interest group and MED are talking and listening to us. At least we'll have some fighting chance!

Just for clarity here is the section regarding the furniture.. (In addition to earlier sections where they state fitting for kitchen, bathroom etc.. )

In para 4 of the ‘*Addendum to Sale and Purchase Agreement governing operation and management of Unit xxxx at the Kensington Royale.’*It states the following:

4.1 OBLIGATIONS OF MED
MED shall:
1.	Cause the Rental program to be operated at a level of service and quality similar to the standards of a 5 star hotel.
2.	_Provide the initial furnishings for the unit in accordance with standards of a 5 Star Hotel._
3.	Etc...

hno:

Brendan


----------



## BH2559

Sometimes you've just gotta laugh.. albiet a manic one!

Reading from MrMida's post above this lovely gem stuck out!

"...only to be told that they use the word Hotel and Apartment interchangeably in Dubai.."

Hahahahaha

One has then got to ask do they also use the word Thieves & Con Artists and Property Developer interchangeably! :banana:


----------



## THE SHADOWCASTER

tvindfa said:


> Hi all of you. I have followed your different views for a long time and feel now I would like to join you as MED is really a big mess without any credibility. I came into this project quite late and paid far too much and loosing any rental income will be a disaster as 8% will give me appr AED 120 K annually for a 2 bed apartment. As I understand MED has slimmed this project into max 1 bedroom apartments and will run away from their rental guarantee. Pressently we are lucky if we can get AED 40 K annually for this kiind of apartments on the free market. This will probably be lower as more apartments will be finished during the next 2 years. Contracts in this area is just a piece of shit and will not be followed by any developer as soon as they have financing problems. RERA is just another instrument pretending to help investors, but have no impact on these greedy developers. Have all of you joined Antony Joyce & Co? How do they act on our behalf and what do you think they can achieve in favour of us? I believe that they have problems facing this kind of totally lack of justice meeting foreign investors if not most of investors in KR join this group. I have some experience form a Tower nearby, The Crescent which is finished, but we could not negotiate with Damac before we all stuck together and here we really gave Damac a hard day. Things are working much better now event though we have a lot more to achieve. I think we through Joyce should establish our own common emailadress to avoid MED following all our frustration and start a more powerful fight against Tarik and his likeable. We did that at The Crescent. Await your comments


Hi Guys

As I mentioned in my quote above, I was also fed this ridiculous line recently in an e-mail. If this is the case then why is the following quote found on the official KR website. Just Google Kensington Royale and enter the site:

In a class of its own

Kensington Royale represents the opportunity to own a luxury residential apartment in exciting Dubai Sports City within *one of Dubai’s first fully **serviced hotel apartment towers*,enjoying all the facilities and comforts of a *luxury hotel*. What’s more, with our innovativebuy-to-let scheme, your own fully serviced apartment, managed by a renowned *international hotel operator*, will be financially rewarding while you are away.

It is truly laughable. I still want to add my 50% to someone elses and just share ownership until we can sell. I don't wnat to give them another penny.


----------



## Jovan01

ShadowCastor
I would seriously consider joining forces with you as I have paid 50% for a 1 bedroom apartment in KR.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Does anyone know any UAE banks that allow non resident, savings only accounts that don't need a huge AED 10,000 min. cash deposit?


----------



## 234sale

Yep, but are you in Dubai?

NBQ, 500 AED

http://www.nbq.ae/personal.php?page_id=1

Suggest you go to the Sheikh Zayed Road Branch when your here, or I could drive past and check for you.


----------



## worried4

*Account*



234sale said:


> Yep, but are you in Dubai?
> 
> NBQ, 500 AED
> 
> http://www.nbq.ae/personal.php?page_id=1
> 
> Suggest you go to the Sheikh Zayed Road Branch when your here, or I could drive past and check for you.


Does this mean that non-residents can open an UAE bank account?


----------



## williamX

*yes*



worried4 said:


> Does this mean that non-residents can open an UAE bank account?


yes, and it always was possible to open savings account.


----------



## Guest

bizzybonita said:


> I couldn't find it right now but there is a news regard cancellation of project by RERA .
> 
> *209 projects under study
> 
> «Real Estate Regulatory» liquidate 88 projects in Dubai*
> 
> Source:
> 
> * Dubai's Emirates Today
> 
> Date: October 9, 2010
> 
> Detect Executive Director of the Real Estate Regulatory Agency in Dubai, Mr. Marwan bin Ghalaita, that «*the institution is currently studying cancel 209 projects, and that a final decision on liquidation was adopted for 88 of them, and they are distributed among developers secondary, developers Co*», considering that the real estate sector in Dubai has become more mature, organized and secure, and it is no longer possible to leave things pending since before the crisis, during which no solutions.
> 
> He said in an interview with the program «the Gulf economy» which was broadcast on Dubai TV last night, that the Land Department in Dubai introduced last week, a section for the liquidation of real estate projects, provides for developers who want to liquidate their business service similar to those available to commercial companies the next filter.
> 
> He explained that «the new section examines all aspects of the project the candidate for the filter, such as the number of its investors, and the value of its assets, and milestones reached by, in addition to the obligations owed by the developer, and assets in the escrow account, before the start of the liquidation process», saying that the cancellation of projects Not only goal of the newly created Department, but the goal is to find solutions for developers defaulting to ensure the continuation of their contractual relationship with investors.
> 
> He added that the easiest solution which did not have recourse to the institution, is the cancellation of the project and submitted to the Legal Affairs, stressing that the cancellation of the order to plan an optimal real estate sector in Dubai, and to get rid of projects that are not feasible for the Emirate, and to find solutions to investors who believed in the vision controller Dubai and they have invested for it.
> 
> The manner in which the operations of the liquidation proceeding and principles which govern it, said Ben Ghalaita they are consensual and are complementary among all parties, indicating that the basis upon which the property is the preservation of rights, both for the investor or developer.
> 
> He stated that the Foundation is also working to complete projects that had not been completed, and it launched an initiative for this purpose «facilitate», in order to optimize routing of real estate finance, by ensuring that transparent and clear information about the Bank-funded real estate projects in Dubai.
> 
> He noted that 40 projects belonging to 25 developer will benefit from this initiative in three areas of Dubai, is the «Business Bay», and «Dubai Marina», and «Jumeirah Lake Towers».
> 
> http://www.emaratalyoum.com/business/local/2010-10-09-1.301330


LIST OF CANCELLED PROJECTS - There is a defined list of 495 scrapped projects as revealed by RERA in their prospectus issued for the purpose of sovereign bond issue at London Stock Exchange. Above article is difficult to understand but it looks RERA is now referring to only 88 liquidated projects. As I understand it, once a statement is made in a sovereign bond prospectus, it is not possible to go back. What is the truth. Where is the list. Make it public. Show us there is transparency. We have been exploited long enough. Put a stop to this explotation of investors by developers.


----------



## Adam2008

I Received a letter from Mazaya stating that if I do not pay my outstanding amount, they will cancel my contract. Any advise what shall be done here.


----------



## dubaiprojects

if any one looking for 1 bed apartment (rental) in Dubai Marina crown building, pm me.
cheers


----------



## liwanowner

Hi Adam, you will need to elaborate a bit more. Did you have any outstanding payment and if so why have you not paid yet? I thought you had paid the amount up to the last progress.


----------



## TerryPop

*Palm Mall going to get built*

Hi Phillipa,

Looks like there is a flicker of hope that we are going to get our village centre and shopping mall!

I missed this article but its there in black and white.... the dynamics of marina residence on the palm will change dramatically on the palm if/when this starts progressing imo 

Nakheel plans to start work on at least four shopping centres next year including the palm mall village centre here


----------



## cddubois

Classic bait and switch on the financing that we had been offered and accepted by MED (signed letter) and now they say they can't do it because of the banks in Dubai when the original agreement was developer financing. They countered with the following two options:
1.	Pay 10% on the 5th Floor, 15% on the 10th Floor & 2% per month from Jan, 2011 - June, 2013
2.	Pay 10% on the 5th Floor & enter into a joint ownership with another client as a 50/50 & share equally the rental income & possible capital gains upon the sale of the Studio if & when you choose to. I shall do so search and work to find such a client who is hopefully based in the US or UK

Can anyone who joined the Anthony Joyce group share what has been accomplished in their dealings with MED? Has anyone ever dealt with a firm called International Property Resolution to try and intervene for them? Does anyone know of another studio contract holder that is interested in joining 50%?:bash:


----------



## bizzybonita

Affordable developments in Dubai gain strong foothold

The selling prices in several freehold communities across Dubai remained stable during the third quarter, in comparison to previous months, as per the latest report by Asteco, the property management company.

The third quarter report by Asteco Dubai, says that although further price adjustments are likely in the near future, affordable developments such as Discovery Gardens and Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT) were priced at Dh.500 and Dh.750 per square foot respectively.

The report explained that Asteco has recorded an average drop of 6 percent for apartments. This is largely due to rapid increase in availability of apartments. But, there has also been an increased sale with owners who are likely to take handover of their units, but are unable to make the final payment, which constitutes large percentage of overall sales price.

This trend was also reflected in Downtown Burj Dubai, which, despite being at the opposite end of the price range, still commanded Dh.1,300 per square foot.

Although demand for townhouses and smaller villas is gathering pace, Asteco expects this to continue only in short-to-medium term. During the third quarter, properties in Jumeirah Island, Emirates Hills and the Green Community remained unchanged in terms of prices at Dh.1600, Dh.950 and Dh.700 per square foot respectively.

According to Elaine Jones, CEO of Asteco Property Management, there has been a change in focus in the real estate sector, as maximizing rental yields and long-term capital appreciation, has gained priority over short-term sale profits, with pro--ctive property management being a key factor.

The rental market in Dubai is favouring tenants. Despite an overall rental correction of 6 percent for apartments, the units in JLT dropped 2 percent, with 3 percent adjustments in Discovery Gardens and Downtown Burj Dubai.

The transaction numbers are usually at their lowest during summer and Ramadan. But, this time, it has been surprisingly active with several people taking advantage of the quiet months seeking value for money accommodation. Therefore, the drop in rentals is less significant during second quarter, the report explained.

Meanwhile, villa rentals have been slightly better, with average decline of 4percent from second quarter, following increased stock entry into the market in out-of-town developments.


----------



## bizzybonita

Live in Burj Khalifa - for just Dh80,000 a year



Renting an apartment in Burj Khalifa, the tallest tower in the world, is now more affordable as studios are being leased for Dh80,000 a year compared to Dh110,000 in August.

"As property prices have declined in the UAE, Burj Khalifa is no exception. However, units owners are hanging on to their investment and preferring to lease than sell at lower prices," Adam Farani, Burj Khalifa specialist, Better Homes, told Emirates 24|7.

The Dubai-based real estate consultancy is offering studios on rentals of Dh80,000 per annum; one-beds from Dh120,000, and two-beds from Dh190,000.

Better Homes is currently handling over 40 apartments in Burj Khalifa for residential sales and leasing.

"We have two to five people viewing apartments everyday. We do qualify the customers before taking them to view the units. Mostly the ones to rent are senior officials of companies. Owners too are quite flexible and are ready to take even 12 cheques."

Asked by when can prospective tenants move into the apartments, Farani said: "Due to the high security at the tower, it take a little longer than usual to move into the tower. One needs a photo ID to enter the building."
Better Homes has not increased the commission charge for leasing Burj Khalifa units.

"The commission (five per cent) and deposit (Dh5,000) is standard across all apartments in Dubai."

Seventy-five units are already occupied in Burj Khalifa. There are 28 studios, 260 one beds, 460 two beds, 110 three beds and 18 four-beds.

This website had reported in June the service charge residential units in Burj Khalifa was set at Dh52.77 per square foot for 2010, while charges for Armani Residences were at Dh78.63 per square feet.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/live-in-burj-khalifa-for-just-dh80-000-a-year-2010-10-13-1.303587


----------



## deelz

I received a letter from DAMAC that AED 1000/- will be added in your next installment as registration charges.


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## 234sale

^^ These companies can be conns, many have got nowhere with them.

Cheaper to get you own laywer..


----------



## Josau

*Scary*

*Dubai’s worst office buildings will be empty forever* - CBRE
'Now we’ve got a market that is functioning properly', US property broker says
By Bloomberg
jeudi, 14 octobre 2010 1:13 PM

DUBAI PROPERTY: Some Dubai office buildings are so ill-conceived and poorly located that they will never be occupied, CBRE said. (Getty Images - for illustrative purposes only)
Some Dubai office buildings are so ill-conceived and poorly located that they will never be occupied, while others may command no more than the cost of maintenance, according to CB Richard Ellis Group Inc.

“Some buildings will be permanently vacant and will never be let because they are wrongly located, they are of poor quality or have the wrong legal structure in place,” Nicholas Maclean, Middle East managing director for the US property broker said in an interview.

Speculation fueled Dubai’s property market after foreigners were allowed to buy real estate in parts of the emirate in 2002. Buyers with no experience in property management flocked to purchase floors in planned office buildings before any work started, resulting in poorly finished office towers in inconvenient locations with multiple owners, Maclean said.

Such places have to compete for tenants in a Dubai market with an overall vacancy rate of 40 percent, with newly developed areas on the outskirts hit the hardest. At least 20 million square feet (1.85 million square meters) of space, about 40 percent of Dubai’s existing office supply, will be added in the next four years, CBRE estimates. That will put further pressure on prices that slumped by 60 percent on average since the peak in mid-2008.

“The further you are away from Sheikh Zayed Road, the less desirable the location and therefore the quicker rents fall,” Maclean said, referring to the main business thoroughfare near Dubai’s coast. “Why would you go there when you can get accommodation for a relatively low price closer to town?”

Landlords are providing incentives such as rent-free periods of as much as 12 months on seven-year leases and fitting-out allowances to attract tenants, Jones Lang LaSalle said in a report earlier this month.

“While increasing incentives may make one specific building more attractive than another, there are still projects for which it is difficult to attract tenants at any price,” Jones Lang said. Some properties should be demolished or converted to other uses to reduce excess supply, it said in a September report.

Dubai had 2.6 million square meters of offices under construction as of June, the third most in the world after Shanghai and Moscow, Colliers International said in a report earlier this month.

Most of the new commercial buildings will be completed in the next two years, mainly in areas that have already seen rapid construction, such as Business Bay and Jumeirah Lakes Towers. Most are held by numerous landlords in an arrangement known as strata title where a building is legally divided horizontally or vertically into separately owned properties. Companies generally prefer negotiating with a single owner, Dubai-based MacLean said.

“If you’ve got a ten-story building and ten owners and you want to take the whole building, you have to deal with ten separate owners on one lease,” he said. “It’s impossible.”

Offices in Dubai International Financial Centre, a tax free area near the main business district, are commanding the best rents in Dubai, along with those in Emaar Square and on Sheikh Zayed Road. Rent per square-foot in DIFC is 350 dirhams ($95), while Emaar Square offices near the 200-story Burj Khalifa are priced at about 200 dirhams a square foot. When they do bring in tenants, offices on the periphery of Dubai are achieving rents as low as 40 dirhams, Maclean said.

“That is good for Dubai because two years ago you had to pay a significant rent for Silicon Oasis,” he said referring to a development that’s a 25-minute drive inland from Sheikh Zayed Road. “Now we’ve got a market that is functioning properly.” (Bloomberg)





2010 Arabian Business Publishing Ltd. All rights reserved.


----------



## Pleth

unknownpleasures said:


> weren't RERA going to fix things!?


No you are wrong here. RERA was created to give some locals a title along with a salary.
But the idea of fixing things were not meant to be, - oh come on they work from 10 till 14, (4 hours a day) with holidays most of the year.
Nobody gives a damn.


----------



## 3smiles1day

*Havoc Dubai after real estate collapse-The New York Times in Dubai*

On a sultry June evening in 2007, more than 100 people camped out at the offices of Emaar, a prestigious Dubai property developer, to ensure that they would land coveted spot in a gleaming new skyscraper scheduled to open this year near the Burj Khalifa, the world’s tallest building.

Today, the property, designed by the New York architect, Frank Williams (who died in February), is like a number of others around Dubai-little more than a foundation. Its value has plunged by more than 40 per cent since 2008, after the collapse of Dubai’s eal estate boom. “It’s really a disaster, the situation in Dubai,” said Silvia Turrin, an agent who bought into the property, 29 Boulevard and has been unable to get her money out. “It’s not like in the Western countries. It’s very difficult to exit here if there‘s a problem. And we’ll never get our money back, but now we’re stuck dealing with this hole.”

Dubai lured people to a gold rush in properties at the height of its real estate boom-including business and political leaders from Afghanistan who invested the deposits from Kabul Bank, on of the country’s largest. The near-collapse of the bank in September was largely a result.

At the time, few asked if there was a legal framework for resolving potential disputes. Now, with the glitter gone, interviews with investors, legal specialists and real estate analysts here show that many who bought in are finding it hard to get out.

Despite the construction delay, Emaar is still holding the down payments of as much as 80 per cent that were required to secure an apartment. Turrin and other property holders said. And Dubai’s opaque property laws have made it virtually impossible for those who bought in to walk away, even as interest accumulates on their construction loans.

Emaar acknowledged that 29 Boulevard was still “under construction” but said that it upheld transparency standards and had “taken several proactive measures to address the concerns of investors on developments that are in the pipeline.”

It said those measures included the option of buying other completed properties. Investors, however, say the properties being offered are in some cases smaller, less attractive and more expensive than those they had agreed to buy.

Emaar is not the only developer with such problems. Scores of other buildings around Dubai are well past their delivery dates or have het to be started. Apartment buyers who made down payments for property construction do not know what is happening with their money, these people said. Bank loans on undelivered property often cannot be forfeited, and borrowers have had to pay higher interest and have been unable to walk with from the mortgages.

“The rules of the game are definitely opaque here,” said an investor who has bought several properties in Dubai and declined to be named. “In the United States, I would know my legal position much more clearly and could take actions if necessary.” 

Most developers have also thwarted the formation of owners’ associations that could take control of the building finances and ensure the transparent management of condo fees, which many owners say developers use to take in more money. Dubai has compressed decades’ worth of real estate developments into the past 15 years. But the legal framework for resolving property disputes, and the nature of the contracts themselves, were still as incomplete as many of the buildings, analysts said.

“Dubai has evolved rapidly in just a short time,” said Graham Coutts, who is in charge of Middle East management services at Jones Lang LaSalle, a global real estate services firm. “The legal system is evolving with it.”

Still, concerns about resolving disputes are mounting, even as developers struggle to find foreign and domestic investors for what has become one of the largest property surpluses in the world.

Commercial real estate vacancies in particular are still rising. Although about 70 per cent of empty lots from three years ago had been filled, real estate construction since then had far exceeded the purchases, more than doubling the amount of vacant space available, said Timothy Trask, the director of corporate ratings at Standard & Poor’s in Dubai.

Dubai is not the first place where soaring ambitions outpaced reality. Shanghai, Singapore and Hong Kong all were overbuilt in relatively short times. But these cities were able to trim their real estate surpluses by greatly reducing construction until demand picked up.

Building is continuing in Dubai, however, even though potential corporate tenants are showing little interest in developments like the Dubai Silicon Oasis or the Jumeirah Lake Towers, a complex of more than 85 buildings that looks like a Las Vegas version of Lower Manhattan planted on the fringes of the desert. Jones Lang LaSalle recently proposed that some buildings should simply be sealed for the next five years until buyers returned.

Even if investors eventually responded t slumping prices, they would still have to be wary of contracts and vigilant about how legal disputes in Dubai were resolved, said Ludmila Yamalova, a managing partner at the law firm HPL Plewka & Coll, who handles lawsuits for individual and commercial property investors.

She recently sued, Damac Properties, one of Duabi’s biggest builders, on behalf of a German investor who claimed that from 2006 on, he invested nearly US$10 million in five properties that were not delivered on time. The investor, Lothar Hardt, also claims the developer mismanaged escrow accounts related to the properties and he lost money by signing contracts with retailers that planned to set up shop in the buildings.

Yamalova is now trying to bring suit in court run by the Dubai International Financical Centre, a government body set up to attract investors, which operates largely on British-based law and is independent of the opaque Dubai court system, where cases are conducted in Arabic and plaintiffs must go through local Emirati representatives. 

Coutts, the Jones Lang LaSalle executive, said that because Dubai had grown so fast, the government was learning on the job.

In more mature markets, “you had 200 years to develop a legal framework”, he said. “It’s now becoming clearer what kind of a legal framework I needed to regulate development here.”


----------



## MarkWass

By the way all these '*' s that are appearing in my posts are not my doing. There's obv some prob with my phone, that I wrote them on...


----------



## 234sale

MarkWass said:


> Harbansnagpal, Unknownpleasures, Pleth and all,
> 
> Looking at Google, it seems that this is the 'prospectus':
> http://www.rns-pdf.londonstockexchange.com/rns/3424T_1-2010-9-27.pdf
> by the Dubai Govt, published on 27 Sep 2010.
> 
> On page 18 it says:
> ‘Since the middle of 2008, a number of real estate projects in Dubai have been cancelled or delayed, principally reflecting liquidity shortages for developers, decreasing headline real estate prices and rental rates and increasing market uncertainty and negative sentiment and these factors are likely to adversely affect nominal GDP growth rates in the real estate and construction sectors in 2009, and possibly beyond. According to RERA, there are at present approximately 980 registered projects in Dubai. Of the total number of registered projects, 46 projects have been completed while another 307 are expected to be completed in due course. *The number of registered projects which have either been cancelled by RERA or are in process of being cancelled, or on which work has otherwise stopped, equals 495.’ *
> 
> So the last sentence does seem a little unclear, particularly the ‘or on which work has otherwise stopped’ bit…
> 
> Harbansnagpal you say: ‘As I understand it, once a statement is made in a sovereign bond prospectus, it is not possible to go back.’
> 
> Well perhaps the wording in the prospectus was intentionally chosen to confuse..
> 
> So out of the 495 projects, this could mean that:
> 
> ‘The number of registered projects which have either been cancelled by RERA *(= zero)*, or are in process of being cancelled *(= zero)*, or on which work has otherwise stopped * (= 495)*, equals 495.'
> 
> So perhaps journalists reporting this story have misinterpreted.


Bump,,,

Thanks for this Mark



> Just a thought. None of it is in any way 'fair', to me or others, of course!


I agree many fell unfairly treated,,

If we where in America or Europe, The developers would of just went bankrupt,

We have to remember the Dubai Property market is only 6 years old,,


----------



## unknownpleasures

ryeman said:


> ^^ tells us what you really think of RERA, don't hold back :lol:


^^
I haven't and I think others think the same...I'm not alone...don't you agree?


----------



## unknownpleasures

MarkWass said:


> Depends on who you mean by 'people', I guess...
> 
> Many investors WILL focus on the present (or short to medium term), yes... Life is certainly short as you suggest.
> 
> However, I would have thought that governments WILL probably be concerned with the future and longer term economic sustainability and *growth? Particularly in the current climate?
> 
> I am by no means trying to justify what is happening (or rather not happening), by the way. I for one, do not have endless amounts of money to spend on lawyers, fighting developers in court. But if governments can simply place 'economic growth in the real estate sector' on hold, rather than refund, allowing billions of AED to leave the country, perhaps they might prefer to 'turn a blind eye'.... in the hope (or 'gamble' as you put it) that the situation improves in the future?
> 
> By the way, you mention that you're not an investor. May I ask what your position is?


MW...I think you seem to understand the situation and simply it is fact.....My concern is that people (investors) have been caught up in this mess ..I am informed (like you) they do not have endless amounts of monies to throw to the wolves out there waiting and preying for them to lose out more and the more schemes that come in ...the latest the swapping of properties...that hasn't happened and it won't...there was one operating calling itself RERA also in the UK...that recently folded as soon as it began. 



The govt has to do something to improve the situation - every case is different and that is how it should be treated...RERA should be following up on those who want a refund and those who are willing to wait and sit it out(that's fair enough)...(you will find in many cases there is just no money and therefore a refund is impossible) - many cannot sit it out that is the real problem, many have lost jobs or are in retirement years..(they haven't to date...calling it a challenge and we are back is not the answer when they travel the world promoting their horses. Turning a blind eye to this mess or placing this on hold doesn't resolve the situation when the developers are still wanting monies paid to them and for what? Holes?... RERA refuse to take complaints as I have mentioned and they want the person to pay out more in the courts which is too expensive for everyone and developers know this, the govt knows this and so does RERA...RERA however ignore their obligations and won't shut these developers down who have been dishonest to date, haven't negotiated and kept demanding monies instead and provide ridiculous construction based plans that have never reached the milestones indicated...the majority of buyers are from overseas and not on the ground...that is where it gets even tougher and they know all this and the reason why they continue to ignore all of this...they have come to realise the oversupply which was already imminent in 2007 and perhaps even earlier...instead they try and redirect the buyer back to the courts or to the developers to work things out...however they do not realise that the developer wants nothing to do with these buyers and have ignored the buyer and instead kept asking for more and more monies to be paid but they had no intentions of building anything and placed the projects on hold from 2007 onwards...little work starts, then stops in some cases just to show that progress is occurring for inspections only...but suddenly stops...no one throws out money to get nothing in return that is not how things work...many people won't live to see this built, family members have gone and never saw it happen...these are not speculators flipping the market but people who have put their life's savings(like you) in only to lose out big time, property has never been a bad investment in their own countries yet here it has been nothing but a nightmare, many have done this over time without fail and yet here it failed instantly and the developers don't even bother, they laugh in their faces, they simply do not care, instead of being honest and open they continue to ignore...that is the dishonesty of it all and for this reason it should be out in the open...that is my position on the subject...

PS: Also it doesn't do Dubai any favours by what has occurred...the confidence in the market is at an all time low.....the investors have been treated very poorly and that is the problem and the reason why many will never return as has been highlighted many times in recent media and many complaints.

PSS: Even if people did make it to the courts it doesn't mean they had a chance of a win, ...the court system does not favour the investor at all...that is another reason why people know they won't throw out any more money just for the sake of it being lost again....been in the papers many times...anyone won yet???

PSSS: The lands dept is unapproachable as well...no good contacting this lot...same as RERA!


----------



## unknownpleasures

MarkWass said:


> By the way all these '*' s that are appearing in my posts are not my doing. There's obv some prob with my phone, that I wrote them on...


^^
no worries...

You can't count on anything to work these days!


----------



## unknownpleasures

234sale said:


> Bump,,,
> 
> Thanks for this Mark
> 
> 
> 
> I agree many fell unfairly treated,,
> 
> If we where in America or Europe, The developers would of just went bankrupt,
> 
> We have to remember the Dubai Property market is only 6 years old,,



^^
Agree, however we also have to remember that Dubai can build the tallest building (calling themselves practically infallable - the best - I think it was going around like ....Arabs can always do things better than anyone else so what happened??...if the feat of the tallest building was able to be achieved during the very short 6 year property market what is the excuse about the rest, a lot smaller and a lot less costly than the BK...they also changed the name? 

Sure they have the tallest building (a magnificent achievement by far) but what of it when the rest of Dubai continues to be a mess?

You can rent the BK for a lot less also....therefore this iconic structure is not as special as it shoudl have been nor will it retain it's lustre if this is the case!

This is where it shows there is no balance...without balance nothing works!


----------



## MarkWass

I would be surprised if all the apparent inadequacies or ‘failures’ in terms of ineffective regulation etc of the ‘system’ - are as transparent as they might appear on the surface. 

As you point out, the majority of these funds that Dubai is perhaps unwilling to return to the rightful owners, is *foreign money*. Currently those funds are being held captive against their will and ‘put to work’ for someone else’s benefit (ie interest, credit fees). 

I sincerely hope I’m wrong about this – but despite certain journalist and media stories, perhaps the situation will not really genuinely change in the near future, unless actual governments of foreign countries (ie where the money originated in the first place), use some power to take a stance and demand justice for their own unfairly treated citizens (ie the investors). And of course, welcome a substantial amount of funds *back *into their own respective economies?


----------



## Hanna

*SCHON PROPERTIES*

Where are they now !


----------



## yshimy

NEW STRATA LAW

About service charges. 
Heard news about it became obligatory for developers to form a homeowners committee to have clear visibility over the spending of this service charges and adjust it accordingly.

Well... by the time the project is due for handover "if ever" then i guess we as owners should act.

http://www1.albawaba.com/news/effective-strata-law-key-future-dubai-real-estate
http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/few-dubai-developers-ready-for-strata-law


----------



## MarkWass

unknownpleasures said:


> every case is different and that is how it should be treated...RERA should be following up on those who want a refund and those who are willing to wait and sit it out *


They (ie govt and respective agencies such as RERA) wouldn't want to do that, because if they gave that 'option', many, many 'people' as you put it (like me) would go for the refund asap. Those who were prepared to 'sit it out' would get scared and start to panic, and many of those would then also "leave the market".

What remained of the market would be instantly obliterated....


----------



## 234sale

The real question is,, who is entering this market?

Page 19, From the report

2008 
5,916 transactions

2009
2,2327 transactions

2010
1,188 transactions for the first half, so expect the same as 2009


Page 26

But if we look at the number no residential water customers as locals don't pay for electricity

ever year, new residential dewa connects 

2006-7 44,062 new connections, demand increased 623MW
2007-8 46,155 new connections, demand increased 551MW
2008-9 54,773 new connections, demand increased 335MW

The lower demand 2008-9 shows that though a connection has been made, the usage is less, thus vacancy increasing


----------



## Freestyler

234sale said:


> The real question is,, who is entering this market?
> 
> Page 19, From the report
> 
> 2008
> 5,916 transactions
> 
> 2009
> 2,2327 transactions
> 
> 2010
> 1,188 transactions for the first half, so expect the same as 2010
> 
> 
> Page 26
> 
> But if we look at the number no residential water customers as locals don't pay for electricity
> 
> ever year, new residential dewa connects
> 
> 2006-7 44,062 new connections, demand increased 623MW
> 2007-8 46,155 new connections, demand increased 551MW
> 2008-9 54,773 new connections, demand increased 335MW


New people are coming, but they are not the ones who will pay high prices in the property market. in 2007 to 2008, market prices were boosted by the investor demand and not the end user demand.


----------



## 234sale

Excluding the 4% of purchase price fees, to DLD and Agents

Its still cheaper by 30% to rent than buy an appartment, 15% cheaper to rent a villa than buy. (maybe explains a small amount of activity in the villa segment)

I think we would all agree rents in some areas will reduce more than others as supply comes on. Which districts will reduce more than others will be down to the infrastructure and attractions in those areas.


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> But if we look at the number no residential water customers as locals don't pay for electricity
> 
> ever year, new residential dewa connects
> 
> 2006-7 44,062 new connections, demand increased 623MW
> 2007-8 46,155 new connections, demand increased 551MW
> 2008-9 54,773 new connections, demand increased 335MW
> 
> The lower demand 2008-9 shows that though a connection has been made, the usage is less, thus vacancy increasing


Interesting angle -nice thinking.


----------



## Freestyler

234sale said:


> Excluding the 4% of purchase price fees, to DLD and Agents
> 
> Its still cheaper by 30% to rent than buy an appartment, 15% cheaper to rent a villa than buy. (maybe explains a small amount of activity in the villa segment)
> 
> I think we would all agree rents in some areas will reduce more than others as supply comes on. Which districts will reduce more than others will be down to the infrastructure and attractions in those areas.


Well prices are still coming down too not just rent so at some point buying or renting will break even. But it also depends on the interest rates since that also factors in to by or rent. Right now net rentals on good properties are 4.5% to 6%. If mortgage rates go below 4.5% then prices will start to rise again since it would be cheaper to mortgage and also investor would get yield over financing so that will increase investor demand too.

One more thing, locals do pay for electricity, but for water no.


----------



## cuthberts

aaa


----------



## gerald.d

cuthberts said:


> But as you point out Sale, the fact energy consumption is down, is indicative of only one thing - either commercial usage of energy has dropped, or personal usage has dropped, i.e. many people have left.


Energy consumption isn't down - it doesn't indicate that people have left.


----------



## Pleth

Can anybody confirm how much the down payment is to go for arbitrary in Dubai Courts? 77.000 Dirhams + 20.000 extra if the other part won't pay? Is this right?


----------



## 234sale

^^ Can vary, Call in on Dubai eye 103.8, 12o'clock sunday property show to speak to a laywer for free



cuthberts said:


> But as you point out Sale, the fact energy consumption is down, is indicative of only one thing - either commercial usage of energy has dropped, or personal usage has dropped, i.e. many people have left.


^^ Consuption isn't down, it increased, but consuption per unit decreased..

Just saying that that report markwass posted is the best source of market data that I have seen in years. The biggest use of power in a unit is either AC followed by the water heaters and oven..

"Unless your gerald and it a bank of pc's and gadgets...."

You could estimate total occupation of Dubai from these figures which show the suprisingly the population chart on page 6, may actually be correct..

1,836,000 people living in Dubai for 2010, this doesn't represent the fact that yes the local job market is way down.

But what is noticable is the number of people working in Abu Dhabi or Saudi, living in Dubai. The family / wife stays here, they fly out on a Saturday, back in on the Wednesday.

As prices get cheaper, more will move in and use Dubai as a hub to other parts in this region.

I am also aware of upper / middle class Pakistan / Afghanistan nationals that want their kids to go to Dubai Universities and Schools. probably the agents would agree they get more enquires from these nationals these days.

Even the Tax adverse Indians are still buying a few bits and pieces as they still like the idea of keeping money seperated from the home land.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Pleth said:


> Can anybody confirm how much the down payment is to go for arbitrary in Dubai Courts? 77.000 Dirhams + 20.000 extra if the other part won't pay? Is this right?


^^
http://www.diac.ae/idias/resource/doc/en/TableOfFeesnCosts_updated.pdf


----------



## Wac

I have flat in Lawns II. Today, I received a letter from DEC in which they asked me to pay AED 3000 for Oqood Registration Charges. Any suggestions?


----------



## smussuw

234sale said:


> But if we look at the number no residential water customers as locals don't pay for electricity


Locals don't pay for water or sewage but they pay for electricity.


----------



## Spurs

*Visa Question*

Can a daughter sponsor her parents if the property is in the daughters name? If not if she adds her father on the title deed can the father get a visa and the mother?


----------



## 234sale

Smussuw,, As I said,, 


Just thinking though,,

Take Mr X as an example, he earns $1000 a day working for the worlds largest petro-chemcial company in Saudi,,,

He wont be able to take a mortgage in Dubai...


----------



## unknownpleasures

MarkWass said:


> They (ie govt and respective agencies such as RERA) wouldn't want to do that, because if they gave that 'option', many, many 'people' as you put it (like me) would go for the refund asap. Those who were prepared to 'sit it out' would get scared and start to panic, and many of those would then also "leave the market".
> 
> What remained of the market would be instantly obliterated....


^^
As I mentioned it should be managed on a case by case basis and examples of this were provided in my previous comment - these views were held by RERA's Super Marwin...believe it or not! Who said in January 2009....

*"However, we'll be flexible. Exceptions could be made if the investor is unable to continue to pay due to some genuine reasons, such as loss of pay, job loss - which we will have to consider," Bin Galita is quoted as saying.

"These will have to be approved by RERA and will be handled case-by-case."*

There would be many cases that would fit "genuine reasons" as mentioned above and this is where RERA should be following up on what they claimed they would do.

Secondly, it's been more than 5 years now in many cases...you can just imagine what shape the structures will be like being exposed to the weather for this long already (concrete and steel - the stop/start method applying) - on completion (if it should happen and is doubtful in many cases that it will...no money as mentioned, banks refuse to lend to developers who are also a bad risk (nothing to show having been completed - no bank is silly enough to lend more finance to bad developers)...developers who themselves have claimed now in black and white on their websites in some cases) people may be very very disappointed and perhaps one can only imagine what the finish will be like! The structures will be outdated and old before their time. 




MarkWass said:


> As you point out, the majority of these funds that Dubai is perhaps unwilling to return to the rightful owners, is *foreign money*. Currently those funds are being held captive against their will and ‘put to work’ for someone else’s benefit (ie interest, credit fees).




^^
In respect to your thoughts on money being kept for interest - this may be the case in some situations but the majority of cases the monies were never deposited into escrow which means the money has disappeared - this is fact, bank statements will attest to this...the balance in escrow is ZERO! (used on other ventures while the going was good at the time, utilising investor funds for other plots instead of using it for the intended project small investors paid millions of Dirhams (for separate unit)...this is against Law 8, (RERA knows this) the law is clear that monies paid should have only been used for construction purposes and nothing else).

Also I know of a national who is also in the same situation...if they can do this to their own they can do it to anyone and have!



MarkWass said:


> ]I sincerely hope I’m wrong about this – but despite certain journalist and media stories, perhaps the situation will not really genuinely change in the near future, unless actual governments of foreign countries (ie where the money originated in the first place), use some power to take a stance and demand justice for their own unfairly treated citizens (ie the investors). And of course, welcome a substantial amount of funds *back *into their own respective economies?



^^
I'm not really sure why any other govts should take on the responsibility for something that has occurred elsewhere (Dubai)...in general, other govts do not have jurisdiction in other countries as far as I am aware, unless something has changed that we are not aware of? Take the drug smugglers as an example... they are dealt by the laws of that country...no matter how much representation on their behalf takes place from home ...the law of the land is what has to be adhered to...the laws are there but no one is doing anything about them that is the problem that exists...no point having laws if they are consistently broken!


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20101014042044/Dubai's new housing tax may deter investors

14 October 2010
DUBAI -- The newly-imposed five per cent housing tax that will become mandatory in Dubai for all residential units from January 2011 "is likely to act as a further deterrent" to investment in the emirate's residential market, property consultancy CB Richard Ellis said on Wednesday. 
The calculation of the tax is based on the annual lease amount while for properties being used by investors in freehold areas, it will be based on the average Rera (Real Estate Regulatory Authority) Rental Index. 

"Properties which remain vacant in freehold areas are also subject to the tax, which means investors have to shed extra value on top of service charges. At a time when levels of market activity are already low, this ruling is likely to act as a further deterrent to investment in the residential market," CB Richard Ellis, or CBRE, warned in its latest Market View.

On the fourth quarter outlook of the sector, the report said the demand and supply imbalance across all property sectors was expected to continue through the remainder of the year resulting in sustained downward movement of lease rates in the short term. 

Leases of the residential sector, which dipped 13 per cent on an average in the third quarter, is expected to feel further aggravation during fourth quarter of 2010 and first quarter of 2011, with completed properties awaiting entry into the market from the developments of Business Bay, Dubai Sports City and Jumeirah Village, the report said.

"A significant number of towers in these developments have now been completed for some time but have been held back from the market due to long running infrastructure delays," the report authored by Matthew Green and Mohammed Faheem said.

"The situation in the office market is actually somewhat worse than the residential market. Of the total expected office space for 2010, around 65 per cent has already entered the market with the remaining 35 per cent scheduled to enter during the fourth quarter," they said.

"However, looking at the overall pace of construction and the continuation of infrastructure delays faced by these projects, it is expected that a large proportion of this space could actually shift its entry further into next year," they said in the report.

The entry of office space at the Business Bay development will see the existing Central Business District, or CBD, area expanded further west towards the second interchange. "At this point it is quite clear that ongoing infrastructure issues and a lack of community services within the development, will remain as deterrents for potential occupiers, although this situation should slowly improve in the coming quarters," the report said.

On a more positive note for Business Bay, the quality of product on offer and the existence of competitive lease rates, make the area a notably better proposition than some of the older and more congested business areas around Dubai Creek. 

"The trend of occupiers moving away from old Dubai is one which is expected to continue for the foreseeable future, which can only be positive for the newly developed freehold locations. The expected opening of the Business Bay Metro Station is also likely to add further weight and support to tenants eying Business Bay as their new office location," the report said.

"Downward pressure on leases continues across virtually all areas of the Emirate. Average rental rates for one, two and three bedroom apartments have dipped by an average 13 per cent on a quarterly basis, while on an annual basis they have declined by 18 per cent. The biggest drop has been for one-bedroom units with a 20 per cent decline," CBRE report said.

"This can be attributed to the relocation of tenants to bigger unit types as lease rates have fallen away and become more affordable. Among the six non-freehold locations reviewed, the biggest fall in rates occurred in the Al Ghusais area with a 17 per cent drop," it said. 

According to the report, the smallest decline was in the Karama area. A sharp increase in residential supply in Muhaisanah and Al Nahda acted to further mount pressure on lease rates in the neighbouring Al Ghusais


----------



## sgn7200

Wac said:


> The one who told me 3 months ago that they are starting construction next month is no longer working for DEC. Now they are saying that they will start construction on Lawns-IV _next month _and will offer me to transfer my Lawns-II apartment to Lawns-IV.


Very interesting. Just ask them what they have available in Lawns IV. This will show how much truth is there in their statement.


----------



## sgn7200

unknownpleasures said:


> ^^
> As I mentioned it should be managed on a case by case basis and examples of this were provided in my previous comment - these views were held by RERA's Super Marwin...believe it or not! Who said in January 2009....
> 
> *"However, we'll be flexible. Exceptions could be made if the investor is unable to continue to pay due to some genuine reasons, such as loss of pay, job loss - which we will have to consider," Bin Galita is quoted as saying.
> 
> "These will have to be approved by RERA and will be handled case-by-case."*
> 
> There would be many cases that would fit "genuine reasons" as mentioned above and this is where RERA should be following up on what they claimed they would do.
> 
> Secondly, it's been more than 5 years now in many cases...you can just imagine what shape the structures will be like being exposed to the weather for this long already (concrete and steel - the stop/start method applying) - on completion (if it should happen and is doubtful in many cases that it will...no money as mentioned, banks refuse to lend to developers who are also a bad risk (nothing to show having been completed - no bank is silly enough to lend more finance to bad developers)...developers who themselves have claimed now in black and white on their websites in some cases) people may be very very disappointed and perhaps one can only imagine what the finish will be like! The structures will be outdated and old before their time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^
> In respect to your thoughts on money being kept for interest - this may be the case in some situations but the majority of cases the monies were never deposited into escrow which means the money has disappeared - this is fact, bank statements will attest to this...the balance in escrow is ZERO! (used on other ventures while the going was good at the time, utilising investor funds for other plots instead of using it for the intended project small investors paid millions of Dirhams (for separate unit)...this is against Law 8, (RERA knows this) the law is clear that monies paid should have only been used for construction purposes and nothing else).
> 
> Also I know of a national who is also in the same situation...if they can do this to their own they can do it to anyone and have!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^
> I'm not really sure why any other govts should take on the responsibility for something that has occurred elsewhere (Dubai)...in general, other govts do not have jurisdiction in other countries as far as I am aware, unless something has changed that we are not aware of? Take the drug smugglers as an example... they are dealt by the laws of that country...no matter how much representation on their behalf takes place from home ...the law of the land is what has to be adhered to...the laws are there but no one is doing anything about them that is the problem that exists...no point having laws if they are consistently broken!


I believe the governments do have a responsibility towards their nationals as they have allowed these developers to advertise extensively to lure these investors to invest and then using all types of unfair tactics not to honour their commitments. Western Governments should intervene to protect their citizens who have been taken for a ride. Until such time the concerned Governments take some action, RERA or other statutory authorities are not likely to heed. After all UAE has investments in the West and they expect rule of law or international law should apply. Similarly, foreign investors in Dubai expect rule of law and international law to apply to their investments.


----------



## MarkWass

^^ Hear, Hear!! or is it 'Here, Here!!' :lol:


----------



## unknownpleasures

Yes their own nationals...perhaps the UK govt should intervene??? lots of UK investors affected......good for you that you received a refund, I heard there was a refund from Stadium Point also a while back (around 2008)..yeah, great stuff! Noticed your latest comment on the cube thread - you must be thrilled getting all your money back!

No need to feel disillusioned anymore especially after that refund MW! Well done!


----------



## unknownpleasures

sgn7200 said:


> I believe the governments do have a responsibility towards their nationals as they have allowed these developers to advertise extensively to lure these investors to invest and then using all types of unfair tactics not to honour their commitments. Western Governments should intervene to protect their citizens who have been taken for a ride. Until such time the concerned Governments take some action, RERA or other statutory authorities are not likely to heed. After all UAE has investments in the West and they expect rule of law or international law should apply. Similarly, foreign investors in Dubai expect rule of law and international law to apply to their investments.


^^
Those disillusioned should do so!


----------



## unknownpleasures

As I mentioned it should be managed on a case by case basis and examples of this were provided in my previous comment - these views were held by RERA's Super Marwin...believe it or not! Who said in January 2009....

*"However, we'll be flexible. Exceptions could be made if the investor is unable to continue to pay due to some genuine reasons, such as loss of pay, job loss - which we will have to consider," Bin Galita is quoted as saying.

"These will have to be approved by RERA and will be handled case-by-case."*

There would be many cases that would fit "genuine reasons" as mentioned above and this is where RERA should be following up on what they claimed they would do.


----------



## bizzybonita

أ*كد عدم علم منال شاهين بالاتفاق غير المشروع
المدقق الحسابي يدلي بشهادته في قضية «الواجهة البحرية»*

المصدر: بشاير المطيري - دبي التاريخ: 20 أكتوبر 2010

«جنايات دبي» أجلت القضية إلى الخامس من ديسمبر المقبل.	تصوير: مصطفى قاسمي
استمعت محكمة الجنايات في دبي أمس، لشهادة المدقق الحسابي في دائرة الرقابة المالية محمد مصطفى، وهو شاهد اثبات في قضية فساد مالي متعلقة بمشروع «الواجهة البحرية» العائدة لشركة نخيل، إذ أكد في شهادته أن «البحث أثبت أن المدير التنفيذي السابق لنخيل منال شاهين لا علم لها بالاتفاق غير المشروع الذي دبره المتهمون في القضية».

وأجلت هيئة المحكمة برئاسة القاضي السعيد برغوث وعضوية القاضيين عادل الجسمي وسالم القايدي، القضية إلى الخامس من ديسمبر المقبل للاستماع لشهادة المجني عليه صاحب شركة «صن لاند ديفيد براون»، وذلك بعد أن منحت المحكمة دفاع المتهمين من استجواب المدقق الحسابي الذي قدّم مستندات جديدة من دائرة الرقابة المالية.

وحضر المحامي عيسى بن حيدر دفاع المدعي بالحق المدني عن شركة نخيل والمجني عليه صاحب شركة (صن لاند) ديفيد براون.

وتورط في القضية أربعة متهمين أستراليين، الأول (م.ج) مدير تنفيذي بمشروع الواجهة البحرية، والثاني (أ.ج) مدير قانوني في المشروع، والثالث (م.ر) مدير تجاري في المشروع، والأخير (هارب) وهو صاحب شركة، إذ حصل الأول والثاني والثالث على ربح بمبلغ 44.1 مليون درهم من شركة (صن لاند) بالطرق الاحتيالية، بأن ادعى المتهم الرابع (الهارب) لمدير شركة صن لاند المجني عليه دافيد براون بأن قطعة أرض الواجهة البحرية مملوكة لشركته، وأنه في حال رغبته في شرائها فعليه دفع مبلغ 44.1 مليون درهم، ودعم بقية المتهمين أقواله، مستغلين صفتهم كمسؤولين في الواجهة البحرية.

وقال المحامي سالم الشعالي- الحاضر مع المتهم الأول- إنه «لم يثبت في المستندات اتفاق موكلي مع صاحب شركة صن لاند ديفيد براون» مقدماً رسالة الكترونية ارسلها المدقق الحسابي محمد مصطفى الى ديفيد براون يسأله عن اتفاقه مع المتهم الأول على شراء الأرض من عدمه، فكانت اجابة براون بأنه لم يتفق معه.

وعرضت المحكمة الرسالة ذاتها على المدقق المالي الذي قرأها ثم علق بقوله «في بداية مرحلة جمع الاستدلالات بشأن الواقعة ارسل لي ديفيد تلك الرسالة التي جاء فيها أنه لم يتفق مع المتهم الأول، غير أنه في ما بعد أرسل لي المستندات التي تؤيد الاتفاق بينهما». فيما قال الشعالي «اطلعت على جميع المستندات ولم يثبت تورط موكلي بالاتفاق مع ديفيد» فردّ عليه القاضي أن «المستندات كثيرة تصل الى 10 ملفات»، غير أن الشعالي أضاف «المعلومات في المستندات معممة، ولا حقائق ثابتة تؤكد الاتفاق».

وتساءل الشعالي عن أعمال ترجمة المستندات من الإنجليزية إلى العربية، وأجاب المدقق المالي بأن «جميع موظفي دائرة الرقابة المالية يجيدون الإنجليزية تحدثاً وكتابةً، وأنا منهم».

وجاءت مداخلة الدفاع الحاضر مع المتهم الثالث، المحامي علي الشامسي، بأن سأل المدقق الحسابي إن كان موكله أدخل الغش في مذكرة البيع، فأجاب الأخير بأن «المتهم الثالث أورد في المذكرة بيانات مضللة، واتخذت إدارة نخيل بناء عليها قراراً ببيع الأرض بذلك السعر»، ودلل على قوله بأنه «وجد بيانات سابقة للمتهم حاول فيها تعديل السعر أكثر من مرة للوصول إلى السعر المناسب الذي اقترحه في المذكرة».

He does not know Manal Shaheen, the project agreement is
Checker arithmetic to testify in the case of «the waterfront»

Source: Al-Mutairi Bashayer Dubai - Date: October 20, 2010

«Criminal Dubai» postponed the case to the fifth of December next. Photo: Mustafa Qasmi
Criminal Court heard yesterday in Dubai, the testimony of the auditor in arithmetic FAD Mohammed
Mustafa, a prosecution witness in the case of financial corruption related to the project «the waterfront» belonging to the company
Nakheel, as confirmed in his testimony that «the search proved that the former CEO of Nakheel Manal Shaheen was not aware
Them in coordination with the project, which is engineered by the defendants in the case ».

And adjourned the court presided over by Judge Saeed flea and membership of the judges just physical and Salem Kaydi,
The case to the fifth of December to listen to the testimony of the victim is the owner of the company «Sunland David
Brown », and after the court granted the defendants from questioning the auditor submitted documents which the arithmetic
New from the Department of financial control.

The attorney was present Issa Bin Haider Defending the civil claimant for Nakheel, the victim is the owner of the company (Sun
Land), David Brown.

And involvement in the case of four accused of Australians, I (m. C) The executive director of the waterfront project,
And the second (a. C) legal director of the project, and the third (m. T) a commercial director in the project, and the latter (fugitive)
The owner of the company, got the first, second and third on the profit of $ 44.1 million dirhams from the company (Sun
Land) fraudulent methods, claimed that the fourth defendant (the fugitive) to the Director of the company Sun Land of the victim
David Brown, that the waterfront piece of land owned by his company, and that in the event of his desire to purchase
He must pay $ 44.1 million dirhams, and the other defendants to support his case, taking advantage of their status as officials in
The waterfront.

The lawyer said Salem Al Shaali - present, with the first defendant - that he «did not prove the documents deal with my clients
, Owner of Sunland David Brown »advance electronic message sent by the auditor arithmetic Mohammed Mustafa
David Brown, asking him about his agreement with the first defendant to purchase the land or not, Brown was the answer
That he did not agree with him.

The Court offered the same message to the auditor who read and then commented, «at the beginning of the process of gathering
Inferences about the incident that David sent me a letter which stated that he did not agree with the defendant
I, however, later sent me the documents that supported the agreement between them ». As said Shaali
«I saw all the documents did not prove my client's involvement with the agreement of David» replied the judge that
«Many documents up to 10 files», but Shaali The «generalized information in the documents, nor
Hard facts confirm the agreement ».

He wondered Shaali on the work of translating documents from English into Arabic, and he replied that the auditor
«All the staff of the Financial Audit Department fluent in spoken and written English, including myself».

Presentation of the defense came today with the third accused, lawyer Ali Al Shamsi, auditor asked that the arithmetic
If the client enter the cheat in the memorandum of sale, the latter replied that «the third suspect in the note cited
Misleading statements, and the administration has taken a palm upon which a decision to sell the land at that price », and cited an example of saying
That «any previous statements of the accused tried to modify the price more than once to gain access to price
Manner proposed in the note ».

http://www.emaratalyoum.com/local-section/accidents/2010-10-20-1.306465


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## bizzybonita

ت*مديد فترات السداد أحد الخيارات.. و«المركزي» يعدّ نظاماً شاملاً للقطاع
البنوك تدرس إعادة جدولة الرهون العقارية*
المصدر: أمل المنشاوي - أبوظبي التاريخ: 20 أكتوبر 2010

دخول العقارات المرهونة لا تغطي الأقساط البنكية بعد تراجع الإيجارات في القطاع.	تصوير: دينيس مالاري
أفاد مصرفيون بأن ثمة توجهاً عامّاً في القطاع المصرفي إلى إعادة جدولة الرهن العقاري، بما يضمن مصلحة مالكي العقارات، ويؤمّن تسديد الأقساط البنكية في الوقت نفسه، بنسب فائدة لا تزيد على المعدل الحالي، وفترات سداد طويلة، في ظل تراجع الإيجارات وانخفاض نسب المبيعات، والمخاوف من حالات التعثر، التي يتوقع أن تصل إلى ذروتها العام المقبل مع بدء سداد الأقساط لمعظم العقارات التي موّلتها البنوك عامي 2007 و،2008 فيما أكد المصرف المركزي أن «نظاماً شاملاً يغطي كل الجوانب المتعلقة بالرهن العقاري، يجري العمل عليه، ينتظر أن يصدر نهاية العام الجاري».

وفي التفاصيل، قال المدير العام للمجموعة المصرفية للشركات في بنك أبوظبي الوطني، عبدالله بن خلف العتيبة، إن «البنوك تدرك جيداً هبوط قيم العقارات المموّلة، وكذلك الضمانات التي أُخذت مقابل التمويل، وبات واضحاً أن دخل العقارات المرهونة لا يؤمّن التدفقات النقدية أو الأقساط التي تم التعاقد عليها قبل الأزمة المالية، وهو ما شجع البنوك والأفراد على التفكير في اللجوء إلى إعادة هيكلة القروض العقارية». وأوضح أن «تمديد فترات السداد، مع عدم زيادة أسعار الفائدة، من الخيارات المطروحة».

وأضاف العتيبة أن «بعض البنوك تقع في خطأ عندما تدفع العملاء إلى بيع العقار بثمن زهيد، تحاشياً لرفع الأمر إلى القضاء، فهذا الضغط يؤدي إلى هبوط قيمة العقاركثيراً»، داعياً إلى «تعاون بين البنوك والمصرف المركزي لوضع أطر تنظيمية تراعي مصالح الطرفين».

وأكد مسؤولان في مصرفين محليين، رفضا نشر اسميهما، أن «إعادة جدولة الرهون العقارية خيار مطروح بقوة لدى البنوك في المرحلة الحالية، خوفاً من عدم قدرة الشركات الاستثمارية والأفراد على السداد»، مشيرين إلى أن «اللجوء إلى الحلول القضائية سيكون غير مجدٍ بالنسبة لكثير من البنوك».

وذكر مصرفيون أن «التمويلات المتأثرة هي التي مُنحت خلال عامي 2007 و،2008 وعادة ما يمنح أصحابها فترة ثلاث سنوات لإنهاء أعمال البناء والتأجير، أو البيع والبدء في سداد الأقساط المستحقة».

وبحسب الخبير المصرفي، أمجد نصر، فإن هناك «أشخاصاً حصلوا على رهون عقارية واستغلوا تساهل البنوك وقت وفرة السيولة، وعدم استعلامها بشكل دقيق عنهم، وهؤلاء يتحملون أعباءً كثيرة لعدم تمكنهم من بيع كامل الوحدات، أو تأجيرها بأسعار تغطي الكُلفة، وفي النهاية لن يكون بمقدورهم الاستمرار إلا بإعادة جدولة مناسبة أو البيع بخسارة ».

وأضاف أن «الرهونات العقارية الخاصة بالشركات الاستثمارية تواجه تراجعاً في المبيعات، بسبب تحفظ البنوك على تمويل شراء العقارات، وهبوط قيم الإيجارات». وقال: «من الصيغ المطروحة أمام البنوك لعمليات إعادة جدولة الرهون العقارية، نظام الدفعات المتصاعدة، مع مراعاة ثباتها في أول ثلاث سنوات، وهو خيار محاسبي ومالي مقبول ومتعارف عليه لمعالجة حالات التعثر».

ووفقاً لرئيس مجلس إدارة مجموعة العتيبة، عتيبة سعيد العتيبة، فإن «جميع المشروعات والبنايات الخاصـة تعتمد على تمويلات بنكيـة، ونادراً ما توجد عقارات يدفع أصحابها السيولة المطلوبة بالكامل».

إلى ذلك، أكد مصدر مسؤول في المصرف المركزي لـ«الإمارات اليوم» أنه «لا يوجد مشروع عقاري توقف بسبب امتناع البنوك عن تمويله بحسب العقود الموقعة، ولكن العقارات لم تعد قطاعاً جاذباً كالسابق»، مشيراً إلى أن «قانون المصرف المركزي يحظر على البنوك تمويل العقارات بنسبة تزيد على 20٪ من حجم الودائع، وتجاوز ذلك يعد مخالفة قانونية»، وكشف أن «نظاماً شاملاً يغطي كل الجوانب المتعلقة بالرهن العقاري، يجري العمل عليه حالياً، وينتظر أن يصدر نهاية العام الجاري».

وتبعاً لإحصاءات حديثة صادرة عن المصرف المركزي، فقد وصل إجمالي قروض الرهن العقاري المقدمة من البنوك المحلية للمقيمين إلى 161.41 مليار درهم في نهاية شهر يوليو الماضي، مقابل 159.84 مليار درهم في نهاية شهر يونيو الماضي، بارتفاع بلغ 1.57 مليار درهم.



Extend the repayment periods one of the options .. And «Central» is a comprehensive system for sector
Banks is considering rescheduling mortgages


Source: hope Minshawi - Abu Dhabi Date: October 20, 2010

Enter the real estate encumbered premiums do not cover the bank after the decline in rents in the sector. Photographer:
Dennis Mallari
Bankers said that there was a general trend in the banking sector to re-schedule the mortgage, so as to ensure
Interests of owners of real estate, believes the bank to pay the premium at the same time, interest rates do not exceed
The current rate and long repayment periods, given the decline in rents and low sales rates, and fears of
Insolvency cases, which is expected to reach its peak next year with the start of payment of premiums for most real estate
Funded by the banks in 2007 and 2008 with Central Bank affirmed that «a comprehensive system covering all
Aspects of the mortgage, are working on it, it is expected to be released later this year ».

In the details, "said Group General Manager Corporate Banking at National Bank of Abu Dhabi, Abdullah bin
Khalaf Al Otaiba, said that «the banks is well aware of falling real estate values funded, as well as the safeguards taken
For funding, and it became clear that the income of the encumbered real estate does not believe in cash flows or payments
That had been contracted before the financial crisis, which encouraged banks and individuals to reflect on the asylum
To restructure mortgage loans ». He explained that «the extension of repayment periods, with no increase in prices
Interest, an option ».

Otaiba added that «some banks are at fault when you pay clients to sell the property cheap,
In order to avoid raising the matter to the courts, this pressure leads to a decline in the value of Alakarkthira », calling for
«Cooperation between banks and the Central Bank for the development of regulatory frameworks that take into account the interests of both parties».

The officials in local banks, refused to be named, that «the rescheduling option mortgages
Matrouh strongly with banks at the current stage, for fear of the inability of the investment companies and individuals
To pay », pointing out that« the recourse to judicial solutions will be ineffective for many
Banks ».

Bankers said that «the funds affected are granted during the years 2007 and 2008 and usually give
Owners a period of three years to finish the construction, leasing, or selling and start paying premiums
Due ».

According to a banking expert, Amjad victory, there is a «people who got mortgages and took advantage of indulgence
Banks at the time of abundant liquidity, and not accurately Astalamha them, and they bear many burdens
Because they can not sell the entire units, or cover the cost of rental prices, and eventually will not be
Able to continue but to reschedule the event or sell at a loss ».

He added that «mortgage investment for companies facing a decline in sales, due to
Reservation banks to finance the purchase of real estate, rents and falling values ». He said: «of the formulas before the
Banks to re-schedule the mortgages, escalating payments system, taking into account the stability
In the first three years, an option accounting and financial accepted and acknowledged it to deal with insolvency cases ».

According to the Chairman of the Board of Directors of Otaiba, Otaiba Saeed Al Otaiba, the «all projects
And private buildings rely on bank financing, are rarely found in real estate owners pay cash
Required fully ».

Furthermore, an official source at the Central Bank's «Emirates Today» that «there is no real estate project
Stopped due to banks refraining from funding according to the contracts signed, but the real estate sector is no longer attractive
As before », pointing out that« the Central Bank Act prohibits banks to finance real estate by more than
20% of the volume of deposits, and beyond that is a violation of the law », revealed that« a comprehensive system covering all
Aspects of the mortgage, are working on it now, and is expected to be released end of the year
Being ».

According to recent statistics issued by the Central Bank, has reached total mortgage loans made
From local banks to residents to 161.41 billion dirhams at the end of July, compared with 159.84
Billion dirhams at the end of last June, an increase of 1.57 billion dirhams.


http://www.emaratalyoum.com/business/local/2010-10-20-1.306341


----------



## Pleth

Spurs said:


> Can a daughter sponsor her parents if the property is in the daughters name? If not if she adds her father on the title deed can the father get a visa and the mother?


I don't think anybody can get a visa out of buying property. hno:


----------



## Pleth

unknownpleasures said:


> ^^
> http://www.diac.ae/idias/resource/doc/en/TableOfFeesnCosts_updated.pdf


Thank you for your help. And the next question is then, can you trust lawyers in UAE? I.e. T.L.G. company?


----------



## 234sale

^^ If it's one of those bogus schemes, no..


----------



## unknownpleasures

bizzybonita said:


> أ*كد عدم علم منال شاهين بالاتفاق غير المشروع
> المدقق الحسابي يدلي بشهادته في قضية «الواجهة البحرية»*
> 
> المصدر: بشاير المطيري - دبي التاريخ: 20 أكتوبر 2010
> 
> «جنايات دبي» أجلت القضية إلى الخامس من ديسمبر المقبل.	تصوير: مصطفى قاسمي
> استمعت محكمة الجنايات في دبي أمس، لشهادة المدقق الحسابي في دائرة الرقابة المالية محمد مصطفى، وهو شاهد اثبات في قضية فساد مالي متعلقة بمشروع «الواجهة البحرية» العائدة لشركة نخيل، إذ أكد في شهادته أن «البحث أثبت أن المدير التنفيذي السابق لنخيل منال شاهين لا علم لها بالاتفاق غير المشروع الذي دبره المتهمون في القضية».
> 
> وأجلت هيئة المحكمة برئاسة القاضي السعيد برغوث وعضوية القاضيين عادل الجسمي وسالم القايدي، القضية إلى الخامس من ديسمبر المقبل للاستماع لشهادة المجني عليه صاحب شركة «صن لاند ديفيد براون»، وذلك بعد أن منحت المحكمة دفاع المتهمين من استجواب المدقق الحسابي الذي قدّم مستندات جديدة من دائرة الرقابة المالية.
> 
> وحضر المحامي عيسى بن حيدر دفاع المدعي بالحق المدني عن شركة نخيل والمجني عليه صاحب شركة (صن لاند) ديفيد براون.
> 
> وتورط في القضية أربعة متهمين أستراليين، الأول (م.ج) مدير تنفيذي بمشروع الواجهة البحرية، والثاني (أ.ج) مدير قانوني في المشروع، والثالث (م.ر) مدير تجاري في المشروع، والأخير (هارب) وهو صاحب شركة، إذ حصل الأول والثاني والثالث على ربح بمبلغ 44.1 مليون درهم من شركة (صن لاند) بالطرق الاحتيالية، بأن ادعى المتهم الرابع (الهارب) لمدير شركة صن لاند المجني عليه دافيد براون بأن قطعة أرض الواجهة البحرية مملوكة لشركته، وأنه في حال رغبته في شرائها فعليه دفع مبلغ 44.1 مليون درهم، ودعم بقية المتهمين أقواله، مستغلين صفتهم كمسؤولين في الواجهة البحرية.
> 
> وقال المحامي سالم الشعالي- الحاضر مع المتهم الأول- إنه «لم يثبت في المستندات اتفاق موكلي مع صاحب شركة صن لاند ديفيد براون» مقدماً رسالة الكترونية ارسلها المدقق الحسابي محمد مصطفى الى ديفيد براون يسأله عن اتفاقه مع المتهم الأول على شراء الأرض من عدمه، فكانت اجابة براون بأنه لم يتفق معه.
> 
> وعرضت المحكمة الرسالة ذاتها على المدقق المالي الذي قرأها ثم علق بقوله «في بداية مرحلة جمع الاستدلالات بشأن الواقعة ارسل لي ديفيد تلك الرسالة التي جاء فيها أنه لم يتفق مع المتهم الأول، غير أنه في ما بعد أرسل لي المستندات التي تؤيد الاتفاق بينهما». فيما قال الشعالي «اطلعت على جميع المستندات ولم يثبت تورط موكلي بالاتفاق مع ديفيد» فردّ عليه القاضي أن «المستندات كثيرة تصل الى 10 ملفات»، غير أن الشعالي أضاف «المعلومات في المستندات معممة، ولا حقائق ثابتة تؤكد الاتفاق».
> 
> وتساءل الشعالي عن أعمال ترجمة المستندات من الإنجليزية إلى العربية، وأجاب المدقق المالي بأن «جميع موظفي دائرة الرقابة المالية يجيدون الإنجليزية تحدثاً وكتابةً، وأنا منهم».
> 
> وجاءت مداخلة الدفاع الحاضر مع المتهم الثالث، المحامي علي الشامسي، بأن سأل المدقق الحسابي إن كان موكله أدخل الغش في مذكرة البيع، فأجاب الأخير بأن «المتهم الثالث أورد في المذكرة بيانات مضللة، واتخذت إدارة نخيل بناء عليها قراراً ببيع الأرض بذلك السعر»، ودلل على قوله بأنه «وجد بيانات سابقة للمتهم حاول فيها تعديل السعر أكثر من مرة للوصول إلى السعر المناسب الذي اقترحه في المذكرة».
> 
> He does not know Manal Shaheen, the project agreement is
> Checker arithmetic to testify in the case of «the waterfront»
> 
> Source: Al-Mutairi Bashayer Dubai - Date: October 20, 2010
> 
> «Criminal Dubai» postponed the case to the fifth of December next. Photo: Mustafa Qasmi
> Criminal Court heard yesterday in Dubai, the testimony of the auditor in arithmetic FAD Mohammed
> Mustafa, a prosecution witness in the case of financial corruption related to the project «the waterfront» belonging to the company
> Nakheel, as confirmed in his testimony that «the search proved that the former CEO of Nakheel Manal Shaheen was not aware
> Them in coordination with the project, which is engineered by the defendants in the case ».
> 
> And adjourned the court presided over by Judge Saeed flea and membership of the judges just physical and Salem Kaydi,
> The case to the fifth of December to listen to the testimony of the victim is the owner of the company «Sunland David
> Brown », and after the court granted the defendants from questioning the auditor submitted documents which the arithmetic
> New from the Department of financial control.
> 
> The attorney was present Issa Bin Haider Defending the civil claimant for Nakheel, the victim is the owner of the company (Sun
> Land), David Brown.
> 
> And involvement in the case of four accused of Australians, I (m. C) The executive director of the waterfront project,
> And the second (a. C) legal director of the project, and the third (m. T) a commercial director in the project, and the latter (fugitive)
> The owner of the company, got the first, second and third on the profit of $ 44.1 million dirhams from the company (Sun
> Land) fraudulent methods, claimed that the fourth defendant (the fugitive) to the Director of the company Sun Land of the victim
> David Brown, that the waterfront piece of land owned by his company, and that in the event of his desire to purchase
> He must pay $ 44.1 million dirhams, and the other defendants to support his case, taking advantage of their status as officials in
> The waterfront.
> 
> The lawyer said Salem Al Shaali - present, with the first defendant - that he «did not prove the documents deal with my clients
> , Owner of Sunland David Brown »advance electronic message sent by the auditor arithmetic Mohammed Mustafa
> David Brown, asking him about his agreement with the first defendant to purchase the land or not, Brown was the answer
> That he did not agree with him.
> 
> The Court offered the same message to the auditor who read and then commented, «at the beginning of the process of gathering
> Inferences about the incident that David sent me a letter which stated that he did not agree with the defendant
> I, however, later sent me the documents that supported the agreement between them ». As said Shaali
> «I saw all the documents did not prove my client's involvement with the agreement of David» replied the judge that
> «Many documents up to 10 files», but Shaali The «generalized information in the documents, nor
> Hard facts confirm the agreement ».
> 
> He wondered Shaali on the work of translating documents from English into Arabic, and he replied that the auditor
> «All the staff of the Financial Audit Department fluent in spoken and written English, including myself».
> 
> Presentation of the defense came today with the third accused, lawyer Ali Al Shamsi, auditor asked that the arithmetic
> If the client enter the cheat in the memorandum of sale, the latter replied that «the third suspect in the note cited
> Misleading statements, and the administration has taken a palm upon which a decision to sell the land at that price », and cited an example of saying
> That «any previous statements of the accused tried to modify the price more than once to gain access to price
> Manner proposed in the note ».
> 
> http://www.emaratalyoum.com/local-section/accidents/2010-10-20-1.306465


^^
This case has been dragging on for some time...this involved the Packer magnate...people like this will be heard...it's like Trump....he wins every time!

Unfortunately the translation above is a little confusing...not able to really grasp it all....read about the director being jailed a while back...not sure what is happening but it doesn't look real good!

http://www.news.com.au/business/bus...s-out-on-sunland/story-fn3p68a7-1225761206930


----------



## unknownpleasures

Pleth said:


> Thank you for your help. And the next question is then, can you trust lawyers in UAE? I.e. T.L.G. company?






234sale said:


> ^^ If it's one of those bogus schemes, no..


^^


----------



## b.l.

We also received a threatening letter from Mazaya legal department because we dared to ask - before further payment - to send us more details about completion of project by fases (it would help us to make a payment plan for the rest of our obligation - cca 40%- if they really plan to deliver our appartments till the end of this year - as per our contract).
So disappointing...


----------



## liwanowner

I would not take these letters or their tone too seriously, unless you have actually slipped a payment. If you are up for a payment because the project has reached a milestone, it is logical to ask for an update. I routinely ask them directly for an update through email because their terrible website, which claims to have construction project updates is either not working or outdated. Can either one of you please elaborate about your situation?


----------



## AltinD

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> ... 14 October 2010
> DUBAI -- The newly-imposed five per cent housing tax that will become mandatory in Dubai for all residential units from January 2011 ...


Actually the tax was introduced in early '00s, but wasn't enforced.


----------



## sgn7200

Wac said:


> I have flat in Lawns II. Today, I received a letter from DEC in which they asked me to pay AED 3000 for Oqood Registration Charges. Any suggestions?


Oqood is an initial registration charge payable in respect of your apartment. This raises two questions. First, they are saying to you construction on Lawns IV has started and you will be moved from Lawns II to Lawns IV. Obvious question you need to ask DEC is if they are going to move you from II to IV, why ask for initial registration charge on II. Would you be paying AED3000 again for IV. The other obvious queston you need to ask is what can they offer you in IV. The reason I am saying this to you is because I have also got a unit in II and have received similar letter. When asked what they have got available in IV, the answer is simply "NOTHING". Please do not take my word and ask the question yourself. If you are in Dubai, visit their office and let fellow investors know what the reply is.
Second question is: What is Oqood charge. If you look under Oqood thread you will find the charge is just under AED300 (three hundred and not three thousand). The charge,( as per the thread), is payable by the developer.
My suggestion to you is do not let DEC take you for a ride. If they are not going to build II and they have nothing available in IV, will they refund your money. Just read what one investor has to say about DEC:
Hi everyone, 
I made an investment on Bay Residences in Business Bay and the developer is 
DEC (Dheeraj East Coast LLC). I hear the same stories as i read in the 
forums saying that "master developer did not give us the land and we can not 
start" and eventually 6 months ago RERA sent me an official letter saying 
that "DEC wishes to cancel the project and there is no money in my favour in 
the escrow account". In fact DEC tried to move me to another "ongoing - to 
be completed" project but i did not buy that. So now next week I am 
travelling to Dubai to see what i can do. According to one DEC investor I 
spoke last week over the phone, he made a deal with this developer to get a 
ready unit in Dubai Marina. Do you know if these guys have any more ready 
units to deal with ? Or any more ideas how i can proceed to get back at 
least my money which was supposed to be in the escrow account ? 


So basically I am looking for some ideas especially from the ones who might 
have settled with this developer 


Thanks


----------



## unknownpleasures

AltinD said:


> Actually the tax was introduced in early '00s, but wasn't enforced.


^^
How bizarre..introduced but never enforced - sounds like familiar practice in those neck of the woods..I mean sand!


----------



## SUR

does anyone know if Dr Azizi is still in Dubai or has he fled to Iran ?


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://business.maktoob.com/20090000521932/UAE_banks_avoid_loans_to_real_estate_firms/Article.htm



* Business
*
* Real Estate

*UAE banks avoid loans to real estate firms*
Oct 20, 2010 at 09:47
View count (351) | Bookmark and Share | Print | Send to friend | Add comment

[Visitors gather near an old model of the Falcon City project at the Cityscape annual real estate show in Dubai on October 4, 2010. Dubai's once-booming property sector has been hardest hit in the Gulf real estate region slump. Photograph: AFP]
Visitors gather near an old model of the Falcon City project at the Cityscape annual real estate show in Dubai on October 4, 2010. Dubai's once-booming property sector has been hardest hit in the Gulf real estate region slump. Photograph: AFP

*

Abu Dhabi home supply seen skewed

By Jason Benham, Reuters
DUBAI - Large-scale lending to real estate projects in the United Arab Emirates -- Dubai in particular -- is some way off, as banks remain selective in their financing, executives told the Reuters Middle East Investment Summit.

Dubai's once-booming property sector has been hardest hit in the Gulf Arab region, with billions of dollars worth of projects put on hold or cancelled while financing for real estate projects all but dried up.

"Banks are still reluctant to lend to real estate," Sameer al-Ansari, chief executive at investment bank Shuaa Capital told the Summit in Dubai on Tuesday. "We see a slow return to very selective mortgage lending and where we see it, it is lending where there is very limited risk (but) major real estate lending by the banks ... I don't see that coming."

Investors my be cheered by conglomerate Dubai World's debt deal reached last month and the restructuring of Dubai's flagship property developer Nakheel, expected by year-end, but executives at the summit were reluctant to give a timeframe for a Dubai property recovery.

"Clearly the issues on the real estate front are not behind us. I think we've got some way to go to plough through that," Abdul Kadir Hussain, chief executive at Mashreq Capital, told the summit this week.

"I am sure that there will a recovery at some point. The question is the timing of that recovery," he added.

NEW PROJECTS

House prices in Dubai have fallen some 60 percent from their peaks in 2008 largely due to oversupply, which Colliers estimates to be around 20 percent, but there is some interest in Dubai again.

"We have been asked to price new projects or projects in Dubai again," Ziad Makhzoumi, chief financial officer of Arabtec, the largest construction firm in the UAE, said at the summit.

"There will probably be more work coming, probably more in infrastructure," he said, adding Arabtec's project backlog in Dubai represents just 20 percent of total current projects, down from 95 percent in 2007, as the firm expands to diversify its revenues.

In neighbouring Abu Dhabi, capital of the United Arab Emirates, which has fared better than Dubai during the downturn, 2011 is seen as another year of consolidation, with developers focusing on completion and handover of projects.

"In Abu Dhabi there were lots of projects that were suspended and there were many projects that were re-tendered, but very few have been awarded," Makhzoumi said.


----------



## unknownpleasures

*Jumeirah, lost in transition*
Old Dubai villas crumble to dust, waiting for Meraas’ $95.3 billion Jumeirah Gardens project to restart.


http://business.maktoob.com/Pages/Media/GalleryPopUp.aspx?GalleryID=20323&ImageID=
A date palm denied water dies slowly within the walls of an empty villa. Hundreds of homes sit idle in an area of prime real estate in Dubai behind Sheikh Zayed Road. Many of the homes were emptied in preparation for the $95.3 billion Meraas redevelopment project of the area. 

A view of sky scrapers on Sheik Zayed road through an entrance of a villa. The Jumeirah Gardens project was announced in October last year. It planned to include a selection of towers, offshore islands and a network of canals, the developers said, as they started demolishing the existing buildings. Photograph: Mehdi Shirazi/Maktoob Business 

A view of Burj Dubai through a wrecked door of a demolished villa. In December, as the global financial crisis began to impact on the UAE, Meraas said it was suspending the project and told residents who had previously been evicted that they could stay for the foreseeable future. Photograph: Mehdi Shirazi/Maktoob Business

Shattered pieces of glass remain on the ground of a villa. Meraas Development, a new company that was launched as Dubai’s five-year boom drew to a halt, announced in March that it was reconsidering its plans and discharged many of the contractors it had hired, while telling others to suspend activities. Photograph: Mehdi Shirazi/Maktoob Business

A play school once occupied with laughing children now echoes with silence. A spokesman for the redevelopment company said the future of the site will be announced soon. But he refused to say what would be involved or how much money the company had spent so far. Photograph: Mehdi Shirazi/Maktoob Business

A swimming pool reflects only the passing of time as it slowly fills with sand. In the meantime the site lays dormant, piles of rubble covering land where families once lived in a vibrant neighbourhood.

The writing really was on the wall for this abandoned villa. The only apparent sign of human life inside this villa is the graffiti on its walls. 

A view through the diamond shaped mesh of an abandoned home. The derelict site is less than a kilometre from sections of the popular Jumeirah beach and villas which still buzz with new developments

A painting remains on a wall of an abandoned home. Most personal items have been removed, but every now and then passersby can spy a remnant of someone’s past.

A worker cuts iron rods from the remains of the demolished homes. The company will not comment on the future of the site, but sources close to the developer have said all options are being considered.


----------



## Wac

Thankyou sgn7200. I'll go to DEC office in order to clear these scary doubts.


----------



## Rob Timpie

Had a good conversation with Sazia about communication, trust etc.
She told me the problems with the CT4 rooftop are solved and they will continue soon (with double shifts!) building the tower.
For some reason I beleive her, also because the other CT-towers are progressing. There were workers busy at these projects as I was in DSC yesterday.
I've made pics and will put these on the threads when I'm back.


----------



## amplesou

Rob Timpie said:


> Had a good conversation with Sazia about communication, trust etc.
> She told me the problems with the CT4 rooftop are solved and they will continue soon (with double shifts!) building the tower.
> For some reason I beleive her, also because the other CT-towers are progressing. There were workers busy at these projects as I was in DSC yesterday.
> I've made pics and will put these on the threads when I'm back.


Good news at last !
:cheers:


----------



## HH2010

Hi ask my lawyer, Mr. Naser Muheyeldin, form Emirates Fortune Group, 050 65 48529, he has won already cases against them


----------



## propertymagnet

Breaking News:

There's a half-off sale in the world's tallest building.
Even with an address at the iconic Burj Khalifa, rents for residences in the tower are not immune from Dubai's real estate crash. Indeed, nearly a year after it was inaugurated with a massive water-and-fireworks display, about 825 of the tower's 900 ultra-luxury apartments remain unoccupied, according to Better Homes, a real estate brokerage in Dubai.
The cost of renting a studio with floor-to-ceiling windows, marble fixtures and wooden floors has dropped to $1,815 a month from $3,025, while a one-bedroom apartment is available for $2,722 (it used to be $4,536), the brokerage says. Two-bedroom residences are expected to get $4,310, down from $7,183. Interested parties "call every few days and go for a viewing," says Imad Ben Khadra, a Moroccan expatriate who owns two 1,000-sq.-ft. one-bedroom apartments he purchased in late 2008 for about $950,000, both of which he is trying to rent out. "We got some offers [from prospective tenants], but nobody confirms." (See pictures of the Burj Khalifa, the tallest building in the world.)
Varun Chaudhary bought two two-bedroom residences in the Burj for about $1.5 million in 2005 even before construction began. He saw the value leap from $762 per sq. ft. to $3,811 per sq. ft. at the heights of the boom. Today, those values hover just above his purchase price. But he says he isn't worried about his investment. "These properties will recuperate faster than other properties because it's an icon, because it's only one in the world," he says. "You just have to say 'Burj Khalifa.' That's the address; you don't have to explain. It's a style statement in itself." (See how the U.S. is leaning on Dubai to pressure Iran.)
Still, the Burj, with its one-of-a-kind address and amenities like the first-ever Armani Hotel, is only the most high-profile example how Dubai's once flying real estate market has crashed. Overall in the emirate, property prices have dropped an average of 50%. Some half-built projects, located away from the main highway that runs through the city, may never be completed because their values have dropped too much, analysts say.
But it's the units that will be completed that are looming as a problem. The Dubai economy must still digest a flood of housing units coming on line or soon to be opened, which will further dampen prices. Through September, 27,000 residential units have been put on the market, and another 9,000 are expected to be completed by the end of the year, according to real estate firm Jones Lang LaSalle. For 2011, the firm forecasts that about 30,000 new units will come on line. A glut in commercial property has forced landlords to offer previously unheard-of incentives such as free rent and allowances to finish out shell construction space. "They built the infrastructure for a much larger economy than it can [now] attract," says Wissam Haroun, a Syrian expatriate who owns entertainment and technology companies in Dubai. (See pictures of Dubai.)
Worried about the glut, Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Agency recently said it was canceling or in the process of canceling about half of all projects registered with the authority. Of about 980 developments, 495 are on the chopping block, according to a Dubai sovereign-bond prospectus made public last week.
Some, however, see opportunity in the depressed prices. "It's a massive change in terms that it's no longer the man on the street or the lady on the street buying property on spec or off plan," says Paul Devonshire, a director with Pramerica Real Estate Investors who specializes in the Middle East and North Africa region. Now, he explains, institutions or more savvy investors are moving in, eyeing distressed or repriced assets. (Comment on this story.)
But the buzz was decidedly subdued at the recent Cityscape Global, the annual real estate exhibition that in the past featured the launch of glitzy projects like the Palm Trilogy, the world's largest man-made islands. The name of the event itself had been changed from Cityscape Dubai in order to expand the focus beyond the city-state. Only a fraction of exhibitors - 200, down from around 1,000 during the boom - showed up to participate.
With speculators gone and credit still tight, Dubai is going about the hard work of adjusting to its new economic reality. Top of the list is paying back creditors that helped finance the boom. Over the past decade, Dubai amassed $109 billion in debt, with about $15.5 billion due this year, the International Monetary Fund estimates. Dubai World, one of the three main holding companies controlled by Dubai's ruler, Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, said last month that 99% of its creditors had agreed to alter the terms on $24.9 billion of its debt. Last November, Dubai World sent stock markets around the world tumbling when it announced it wanted a moratorium of its debts. "We are back. Of course we are back," Sheik Mohammed said in a Bloomberg TV interview last month while attending the Alltech FEI World Equestrian Games in Lexington, Ky.
But, having been through the financial volatility, few seem to want to part with their cash just yet. The Syrian expatriate Haroun, who has lived in Dubai most of his life and plans to raise his family there, says he would like to buy a home. But his forays into the market so far have left him unsatisfied. "People got stupid rich and stupid poor at the same time," he says. "I'm glad I stayed out of it."

What's everyone's comments?


----------



## Freestyler

propertymagnet said:


> What's everyone's comments?


I think that news will increase its demand. It is iconic building and rates are relatively cheap and thats what it says. So potential buyers who didn't know the prices know now.


----------



## DubaiDreamz

Is everyone aware that there is now a show apartment available on site. You can arrange viewings through their site sales team.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Rob Timpie said:


> Well, I heard the main contractor has given the developers a deadline to finish their projects in DSC in 2013. I don't think most of the buildings will be ready before 2013.
> Would you beleive any given completion date at this moment?? hno:
> I guess (wild guess) CT4 will be completed somerwhere in 2012... :cheers:


^^

Your comment makes a lot of sense although the developers have been very cunning to date and have misled many and I guess here also...As I have been trying to find out for some time I believe that Al Jassmy is the same contractor for this and Oasis (the reason as it has bearing on the situation as it affects not only this one but perhaps others they are involved with)...having said that, it means they can't be in too places at once...but as you know there are suggestions of other problems such as finance, waiting for the market to pic up, unsold units etc..my guess here also is that the units are not all sold here and my guess is it will be beyond 2012 (sorry to be so negative, not trying to be funny, concern is the key issue for all projects because if one is at snails pace it does affect the rest..also what is out there on the grave vine is that Oasis was going to be completed Sept/Oct 2010.... personally I can't see it happening.


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## abf

*Pathetic*

Has anyone tried to explore the solution with Wind and Rera etc - if they are still around - even if it is as sur suggests pulling it down


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## unknownpleasures

How long before it stops again! 

My guess it won't be long, this is how they are all affected...stop and start method.....what they want to show is little progress as the investors are on the warpath and they know it...but will return to their old ways.....not just this one alone!

Sorry not being negative ...the BK is selling half price...at least it's completed, here you have no idea! If there are any investors that are still interested I would bet my money they wouldn't give this one a second look or the rest in this area given this one like the rest here (maybe the Bridge), still no comparison to the BK! That's just putting it very simply...not knocking the area but reality does kick in unfortunately!


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Dubai oversupply will take 5 years to clear – Nakheel CEO*

By Shane McGinley | Saturday, 23 October 2010 10:32 AM









_Chris O’Donnell, CEO, Nakheel._

The oversupply of residential properties in Dubai could take up to five years to clear, the chief executive officer of Nakheel has said.

Chris O’Donnell, chief executive officer of the debt laden real estate firm said: “The general oversupply will be cleared in three to five years and will be driven by the economic growth,” said .

He added: “Things can happen to cause oversupply to be removed fairly quickly. Our view is based on what we are seeing in the market.”

His comments echo those of Arabtec Holding chief executive officer Riad Kamal, who in June forecast a similar timescale in a speech to delegates at the Arabian Business Conference 2010.

Kamal said: “A lot of the new property completed, around 40,000 units this year, will take time to be absorbed. I feel that Dubai will need a minimum of four to five years before it can absorb that supply.”

In January, research by UBS estimated that by the end of 2011 the oversupply in the residential sector could be as high as 150,000 units.

Earlier this week, O’Donnell confirmed that Nakheel, the developer of high profile projects such the Palm Jumeirah and The World, is focusing on restarting eight short-term residential projects by the end of October.

Construction work will resume at Al Furjan, Jumeirah Village, Jumeirah Park, Jumeirah Heights Clusters, Veneto, Badhrah, Jumeirah Islands Mansions and International City.

O’Donnell said:“There is a substantial amount of work to be completed there, in the order of AED7-8bn,”

He added: “That is going to be very positive for the market… These projects aren’t going to be ghost towns but are going to be completed.”

Nakheel, a subsidiary of Dubai World, has said it anticipates its current debt restructuring will be finalised by the end of the year.

_Arabian Business_


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai's property sector continue to witness low rents

The impact of Dubai's real estate crash has been so strong on the rental rates within the emirate, that even an address at the iconic Burj Khalifa, is not immune from this.

About 825 of the tower’s 900 ultra-luxury apartments are still vacant, following its grand launch last year, said Better Homes, a real estate brokerage firm in Dubai.

At present, the cost of renting a studio with marble fixtures and wooden floors has dropped to $1,815 per month from $3,025, while a single bedroom is available to rent at $2,722 ($4,536 earlier), the brokerage firm said.

An owner of a double bedroom residence at Burj, who spoke to the media, said that he had purchased the property for about $1.5mn in 2005. The value had jumped to about $762 per sq.ft., during the peak period. But now, the values are just above his purchase price. However, he is confident that the price will pick up faster here than any properties in other localities, given, its iconic location.

Burj Khalifa, with its one-of-a-kind amenities, including the first-ever Armani Hotel, is the most high-profile example of the once booming real estate market in Dubai.

On the whole, the property prices in Dubai have dropped by an average of 50 percent. Few half-built projects located away from the main highway that runs through the city, may never be completed, as their values have dropped too much, according to analysts.

Meanwhile, the units that are to be completed are also a problem. The Dubai economy needs to still accommodate a series of housing units coming on stream, or soon to be opened, which will further bring down the prices.

In the month of September alone, there was an entry of 27,000 new residential units in the market, with another 9000 to be completed by end of the year, reports Jones Lang LaSalle.

For the year 2011, the Company predicts that about 30,000 new units will come on-stream. The surplus in commercial properties have compelled landlords to offer incentives such as free rent, and allowances, to finish out shell construction space.

Dubai's RERA recently agreed that it is in the process of canceling half of all the projects registered with the authority. Out of 980 developments, 495 are on the chopping block, said the Dubai sovereign-bond prospectus.

However, the good thing is that people are no longer willing to purchase off-plan properties. Rather, the savvy investors or institutions are actually moving in, aiming distressed or re-priced assets, says Paul Devonshire, Director, Pramerica Real Estate Investors, specializing in the MENA region.


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## 234sale

Fact.. 50,000 or so, residential units coming on line each year, according to DEWA statistics..

This will continue for the next unit end 2012..

Rents will probably decrease by around 30% more, prices will also follow, as developers have massive inventories of unsold stock.


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## 234sale

Hi Mark,, My background is engineering, not finance...

I am no guru,, just a sub-genius.. 

I do have realtionships with legal advocates, opinions vary, but


Stagnant, as in off plan but no construction.

Basically ,

It comes down to contract and enforcing that contract.

Then the question arises, can you actually take them on under an arbitration clause.

The out come of some cases are still waiting, will know more about successes in a few months.


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## keirajohnson

Dubai is now one of the few places in the world where offshore companies have not received special treatment in the form of taxes by companies registered in the country and doing business in Dubai do not pay income tax investment also.Dubai land is a long term investment, which is why it is important to prepare financially before venturing.


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## Pleth

234sale said:


> Court of Arbitration has fixed costs and you get an immediate decission by a panel. If you win, you can claim back the costs..


The problem is that nobody obey the Arbitration decissions in Dubai. 
And therefore you need afterward to take the case to court which means you basically pay *double*, and it takes *double* time and you do the all the work *twice*. 
Utter waste of money etc.


----------



## sgn7200

Wac said:


> Thankyou sgn7200. I'll go to DEC office in order to clear these scary doubts.


Hi Wac! Some of us are anxiously waiting to know the outcome of your visit to DEC Dubai.


----------



## MarkWass

234sale said:


> Hi Mark,, My background is engineering, not finance...
> 
> I am no guru,, just a sub-genius..
> 
> I do have realtionships with legal advocates, opinions vary, but
> 
> 
> Stagnant, as in off plan but no construction.
> 
> Basically ,
> 
> It comes down to contract and enforcing that contract.
> 
> Then the question arises, can you actually take them on under an arbitration clause.
> 
> The out come of some cases are still waiting, will know more about successes in a few months.


 
Hi 234, I had never heard of ‘sub-genius’. http://www.subgenius.com/ After a quick look on the web, I’m still none the wiser. Will do more research into that later…

Anyway - the legal route / arbritation seems to be very complicated, expensive, random outcomes.. as far as I can see.

I am guessing that the outcomes of cases you mention, will give more clarification?

What are these cases by the way? Investors challenging developers’ understanding and playing of the ‘force majeure’ card, that seems to feature heavily in the contracts?


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> The problem is that nobody obey the Arbitration decissions in Dubai.
> And therefore you need afterward to take the case to court which means you basically pay *double*, and it takes *double* time and you do the all the work *twice*.
> Utter waste of money etc.


I don't have experience of Dubai arbitration but it is by far the most popular form of dispute resolution in construction in the UK. Doing it all throught the courts means hours of expensive court time and expert witnesses racking up a massive bill. If the arbiter awards you money then the other party MUST pay. You are then taking them to court to get the payment not to argue the entire case again.

What I will say is that the other party might agree to arbitration as they are trying to play for time, once they loose they refuse to pay to play for more time and test your ability to see it through. I know companies that have gone bust during the process but they don't have insolvency laws in Dubai so you could be flogging a dead horse and not know it!


----------



## del1

Hello all Bermuda Views Investors, 

I strongly recommend that you join our group, The Concerned Dubai Sports City Investors a.k.a Dubai Action Group. 

www.concerneddubaisportscityinvestors.com 

This group is for people who have invested in Bermuda Views, Eagle Heights, Profile Residence, Stadium Point & Jasmine Gardens. We are based out of Ireland but have members from all over the world.

We have held meetings with Innovation, RERA and are in contact with Sports City. We have also recently received legal opinion on the Addendum to the contract from our Dubai legal team.

The larger our group becomes the more strength and clout we will hopefully be able to use to insist on Innovation entering talks with us.


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## 234sale

MarkWass said:


> ‘force majeure’ card, that seems to feature heavily in the contracts?


Force Majeure,, great if the developer can prove it, none could so far could... 

As I said, will update the legal positions when we have been through them...

Most developers tried to use this force majeure clause,, but when actually served with notice of action, realised they couldn't show an evidence showing force majeure,,

Any developer shall instruct your client 30days after the event for it to be valid.. Then they also could be investigiated to prove this in the court,, which they usually realise is impossible..

Legal challenges are the norm of today,, if you have the right contract, right laywer, non goverment developer. it's win win win Court of Arbitiaton is best for investors ...




As to sub-genius,, Ivan Stang is my Guru, I am a fully paid up member.. 

Eternal salvation or tripple your money back..


----------



## Pleth

From what I have heard the developers are getting away with Force Majeure. 
The recession is apparently a Force Majeure, and I know an investor who lost the Arbitration because of this.


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## Pleth

There are millions of cases going through the Arbitration Courts. But did anybody ever hear of anybody who got their money back??? hno: No. 
This will not happen, no matter how swindling and cheating the developer is.

I think the reason is that Dubai cannot afford to send the money out of the country again -> return the money from the Escrow accounts back to the investors. Dubai is sitting tight on our money and they intend to keep them.


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## 234sale

Read this

http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/collaboration-is-key-in-property-disputes



> What is permitted to be a force majeure event can be the source of much controversy in the negotiation of a contract," says Rima Jameel, a partner at the Dubai-based legal firm Motei and Associates. "For a developer [defendant] to invoke force majeure, the event proposed as force majeure must pass three tests.
> "First, externality; the defendant must have nothing to do with the event's happening. Second, unpredictability; if the event could be foreseen, the defendant is obligated to have prepared for it. Being unprepared for a foreseeable event leaves the defendant culpable. This standard is very strictly applied. And finally, irresistibility; the consequences of the event must have been unpreventable. "Although suspension by the master developer constitutes an extraordinary circumstance beyond the control of the sub-developer, if it does not fulfil the three aforementioned elements, it would not ascend to a force majeure event."
> 
> Where force majeure is invoked, then the sub-developers' obligation to build and the buyers' obligation to pay ceases until force majeure is remedied. Once the matter is resolved, then the obligation on both parties continues again. Most SPAs will outline what should happen in terms of the obligations under a force majeure event, and for how long an event can continue. A contract will normally allow for between six months and one year, but will depend on circumstance.
> 
> If the force majeure period delays completion beyond the completion plus overrun date, where does that leave the buyer? According to Ms Jameel, the SPA should clearly state the consequences and entitle either party to terminate, should the event continue for a specified period of time. Otherwise she refers to Article 273 of the UAE Civil Code (Federal Law No. 5 of 1985), which she says provides that if in a "mutual binding contract, an obligation is discharged because of impossibility of performance, all other counter obligations shall discharge and the contract shall then be automatically rescinded".



No laywer will guarantee a win senario, also most cases get settled the day before the court.


----------



## autumn 2010

*Help*

Please could anyone give me some advice as to what they are doing with regards to Wind 1? Both RERA and Wind are avoiding giving true answers. What are other investors doing? Please share your guidance and any action you've taken.


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## Pleth

234sale said:


> Read this
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/collaboration-is-key-in-property-disputes
> *Yes this sounds just like the recession, no wonder they call it force majoure!*
> 
> No laywer will guarantee a win senario, also most cases get settled the day before the court.


*Which basically means the Arbitration is worth nothing, you will have to pay the court fees and court lawyers as well. And still I have not heard of ONE single person who had their money back. hno:*


----------



## TerryPop

*yikes*

Anybody got a counter argument for Prince Alwaleed's rather frightening predictions on Dubai property?

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/excl...ially-prince-alwaleed-358704.html?tab=Article

"Saudi Arabia’s Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Bin Abdulaziz Al Saud has warned that Dubai’s property market faces substantial further falls, and will take several years to reach its bottom"

and...


"I think we have not seen the bottom in real estate [in Dubai], there are years to come"


----------



## Cayman

I do not know too much about the prince, but I think he is one of the very few 'self made' billionnaires in Saudi, as opposed to those who has crude at the tap.

He seems to know what he is talking about, even though his company got burnt real bad during the recession. But then again, who didn't?


----------



## Pleth

He seems quite honest, I agree with the:
In the same interview, the prince said he believed the global economy remained in a recession.

“The recession is technically over, but in reality it’s not over. It’s like someone getting out of the ICU, he’s still breathing but he’s still in deep trouble. When you have unemployment in Europe at eight percent, in the US nine percent, you can’t say things are fine," he said.


----------



## Wac

I called DEC again instead visiting them since I had to leave Abu Dhabi for urgent vacations for three weeks. I asked them about the fears of losing money ... This time new person told me that my investment is safe (of course they will say it) and will try to transfer my studio from Lawns-2 into Lawns-4. They will call me in couple of weeks. I'll visit them in last week of November now.


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## Dubai_Steve

His predications are based on assumptions that demand will not pick up for Dubai property. If UAE can do something to boost demand maybe prices won't go down for so much longer despite all the remaining last supply. The supply will run out eventually.


----------



## rags

I too think that the Dubai market is in a bad shape thanks to the emirate's profligacy on the one hand and very short-sighted & very little strategic thinking on the other. The prince though has not been always savvy. He indeed must be wondering where the heck he went wrong in putting billions into Citi in the 90s while not pulling out at the right time.


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## 234sale

Pleth said:


> *Which basically means the Arbitration is worth nothing, you will have to pay the court fees and court lawyers as well. And still I have not heard of ONE single person who had their money back. hno:*


Maybe you could ask Clyde and Co ,, seeing as some of there lawyers sit on the arbitration panel. Then again you can always request other arbitrators
if you think anyone has a vested interest.

I suppose it comes on a question of trust,, 

In my limited experience the developer refunds before arbitration/court as they don't want to start a precedent for future claim. 

You will find users of this forum have received refunds before or after court, just they don't go on about it. In fact it's not even for me to discuss any cases, as they remain confidential. So am I aware of sucessful claims,, I can't answer your question..


----------



## carpetking

Dechornation said:


> ....and without sponsorship...


^^totally agree,this would be the best rescue-plan for DUBAI


----------



## Anwar khan

Dubai is coming back on the growth track ...property market will bounce back inshallah...infrastructure is the best in dubai , a place with full security and peace which is probably the main interest one has now. Academic city project is on as well and all the world's best universities are gonna have their branches out there..Look at UK and US, we consider them giants but most of all their economic datas are negative...Dubai is in the race to become one of the financial capitals of the world

thanks alot


----------



## speculator

Anwar khan said:


> Dubai is coming back on the growth track ...property market will bounce back inshallah...infrastructure is the best in dubai , a place with full security and peace which is probably the main interest one has now. Academic city project is on as well and all the world's best universities are gonna have their branches out there..Look at UK and US, we consider them giants but most of all their economic datas are negative...Dubai is in the race to become one of the financial capitals of the world
> 
> thanks alot


*END OF THREAD*


----------



## True Blue

Morrismarina said:


> How far lower do you think Dubai Marina prices will far, how much more to come off the market before we reach the bottom ??


The market is maturing and is stretching vertically. Top quality units will still see prices softening but the point I was making is that some units in the pipeline will just not be in demand and therefore worthless until Dubai is able to attract the populus to fill them.

Some are holding onto the positive that at least their unit will be finished when other developers have vanished with all hope of getting a refund from the stalled development. I ask myself what is worse, a developer who has taken £100k of someones money and vanished, or a developer who promised luxury, took £250k of someones money and delivered something well short of expectation very late and which is £100k less in value as a consequence? The net result being the same in both examples. 

The owner of the miss sold luxury may find that his devalued £150k residual may not even be sellable due to the market and therefore they find themselves with £150k tied up indefinately until the market recovers enough to allow them to exit. These owners could find themselves renting out at a level that barely allows them to cover their maintenance and utility costs but will never recoup any mortgage interest expense. The unfortunate fact is that if they have a mortgage then they are lumbered with a liability.

Maybe the investors that lost a portion of their intended purchase in the stalled developments were the better off ones. They are now free to buy again in a depressed market and will have a better choice of prime units at discounted prices which could allow them to recoup part of their initial loss. Only time will tell.

Example A; Bought in Business bay total purchase price £300k, paid £100k to developer who is now bust or missing. £100k lost forever but now free to invest remaining £200k elsewhere, so buy a newly completed unit on the Palm which was £300k original price but able to pick it up for £200k from distressed seller. End result, still invested £300k but a better more lettable unit now owned. Rents out unit immediately for £18k netting £13k. ROI is 4.3% even after losing £100k down the tiolet.

Example B; Bought a 2 bed supertall in Tallest block with no prime view on 15th floor directly facing longterm construction site. Cost £300k but due to poor delivered quality and poor view apartment has a perceived value in current market of £200k at best. Owner unable to sell and is finding it extremely difficult to rent out. After 4 months void period finally accepts £10k annual rent which leaves £5k after maintenance. ROI is 1.7%, factor in the void period and it is a measly 0.5%

Is it possible we are making too much of the people who invested in the desert and lost it all.


----------



## Mistermark

Anwar khan said:


> Dubai is coming back on the growth track ...property market will bounce back inshallah...infrastructure is the best in dubai , a place with full security and peace which is probably the main interest one has now. Academic city project is on as well and all the world's best universities are gonna have their branches out there..Look at UK and US, we consider them giants but most of all their economic datas are negative...Dubai is in the race to become one of the financial capitals of the world
> 
> thanks alot


Two questions:

1. What are you smoking; and

2. Can I please have some?


----------



## IISinbadII

Anwar khan said:


> Dubai is coming back on the growth track ...property market will bounce back inshallah...infrastructure is the best in dubai , a place with full security and peace which is probably the main interest one has now. Academic city project is on as well and all the world's best universities are gonna have their branches out there..Look at UK and US, we consider them giants but most of all their economic datas are negative...Dubai is in the race to become one of the financial capitals of the world
> 
> thanks alot


You remind me of the good old days in 2006-07. Everything looked so green. :bash:


----------



## unknownpleasures

Straight from the horses mouth when someone contacted this mob - BH...this is where it leaves people who purchased in off plans in Dubai...basically in limbo: It's worthless!

What is surprising there are more projects being released or intentions of this being the case...how can this be allowed when this current mess hasn't been sorted out...off plans are taboo...no one is interested in buying and no one is interested in selling those already purchased! 

Quote: *Dear Sir,



Thanks for contacting us.



Currently there is a very little interest in the off plan properties. Clients always do the property inspection personally before they buy. They either move in or rent out.

If we can not show the property we will not be able to sell it. No market for it.



So, availability of the property is a major factor. Then, comes the rest.



If your apartment is almost ready and we can show it , pls send me the 1st page of the developer contract with the owner and the property details. And I will see what we can do.*


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai Marina has emerged as the most sought-after area for people looking to buy and rent property online, according to the real estate website Propertyfinder.ae.

The website’s report, covering the third-quarter period, found that 19.2 percent of all sale searches, and 16.8 percent of all rental searches were for Dubai Marina.

Palm Jumeirah and Jumeirah Lakes Towers also proved popular as real estate prices and rents across the emirate continue to decline.

Earlier this week, Reidin.com’s latest September Sales Price Index revealed that prices of apartments fell by 2.43 percent, while villas were down 2.40 percent, compared to the month earlier.

According to the Propertyfinder report *the majority of buyers were searching for two bedrooms or more*, while* searches for studios were “almost nonexistent”.*

Behind the Dubai Marina, Palm Jumeirah and Jumeirah lakes Towers, Arabian Ranches and Downtown Dubai were most searched for areas.

The top price search increased to AED2.5m for the first time this year, however on the most part buyers’ *budgets were set around the AED1.5m mark*, the report said.

In the rental market, the majority of searches were made for properties in the AED50,000 to AED80,000 price bracket. Two and three bedroom homes made up the greatest share of searches, while again, studios were “barely looked at.”

“People are concentrating on more desirable locations as they become more affordable,” the report said.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-marina-is-top-property-search-in-q3-358116.html


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> ............
> In the rental market, the majority of searches were made for properties in the AED50,000 to AED80,000 price bracket. Two and three bedroom homes made up the greatest share of searches, while again, studios were “barely looked at.”
> 
> ..........
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-marina-is-top-property-search-in-q3-358116.html


Am I interpreting this wrong? They seem to be saying that the majority of searches were for 2 and 3 bedrooms homes in the 50k-80k range:nuts:

Maybe that report was pre draughted for release next year.:lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think that means 50 - 80k for 2 bed in all areas. Although I see the average marina rental price of a 2 bed in the marina falling to around AED 80 - 95k per annum next year. You can already get below average 2 beds in marina, close to the west end (arse/chic end) of the marina for under 80k. I think studios and possibly some smaller 1 beds may have long void periods over the next 2 to 3 years.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Article on Mag 218 here: http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZ... Group after handover of AED450 million tower

Currently a one-bedroom apartment leases for around AED70,000 per annum while a two-bedroom flat currently achieves annual rental income of about AED110,000


----------



## glover

^^^^^ just checked dubizzle. average rent for one beds is 65k, two beds 90k. maybe the the rates quoted by the CEO are few months old, or its just another developer trying to ....


----------



## speculator

Last week I managed to renew the rental on my 1 bed in the Marina for 90k 1 cheque. Very lucky I suppose.


----------



## glover

^^^^^ congrats! which building if i may ask!


----------



## speculator

You may.

Marina Terrace.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

glover said:


> ^^^^^ just checked dubizzle. average rent for one beds is 65k, two beds 90k. maybe the the rates quoted by the CEO are few months old, or its just another developer trying to ....


Yes 2 bed around 90k to 100k per year for 1700 sq ft (sq ft includes the large balcony)

kitchens in mag218 are not very nice and location a little too far back from marina but not bad, quite close to station.










Asking price for sale in 1.15m to 1.4m range.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Marina Heights rentals on Dubizzle in AED 90k to 115k range for 2 bed.

Larger Dorra Bay 2 bed (1700 sq ft) on Dubizzle currently listed in the range AED 110k to 120k per year. Price per sq ft lower than marina heights.


----------



## Anwar khan

Tamweel resumes property lending

Bradley Hope and Asa Fitch

Last Updated: Nov 1, 2010

Tamweel, one of the UAE's biggest duo of Islamic mortgage lenders, is back in business after a two-year freeze.

The company, listed in Dubai, will start offering home loans today to customers in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, it said. It will offer up to 80 per cent financing, although with a "renewed focus on prudence and conservatism".

While its return to the market has been anticipated since Dubai Islamic Bank (DIB) acquired a controlling stake last September, the relaunch marked a milestone for the emirate's economic recovery and was a watershed moment for Tamweel in its bid to resuscitate its ailing home financing business.

Tamweel's return is also a symbolic victory for Dubai's property market, where average prices have fallen by more than 50 per cent from their peak in 2008.

But executives would not say how much money Tamweel plans to deploy in its new round of lending, which analysts said made the actual effect of the company's return hard to gauge.

Tamweel has about Dh11 billion (US$2.99bn) of mortgages, rather less than the Dh14bn portfolio of Amlak Finance, the country's other major Islamic mortgage company. Together they comprise a significant chunk of the UAE's mortgage market, estimated last year to be worth about Dh60bn.

"This is absolutely needed in the marketplace right now," said Nicholas Maclean, the head of the regional office of the property consultancy CB Richard Ellis.

"There are buyers here that want to proceed but they don't have the means to get back into the market. This will allow them to get transactions going again."

Tamweel's indication that it would give out mortgages for as much as 80 per cent of the value of a home was a sign that it was hoping to make a major impact on the market, said analysts. Mortgages have only begun to creep up towards that level after two years of depressed prices.

"The impact this will have depends on Tamweel's ability to lend," said Damian Hitchen, a director at the mortgage service company Emirates Conveyancing. "But with this announcement, we now have the most competitive set of offerings in the market than we've ever had."

Mr Hitchen said more competition was pushing interest rates below 6 per cent in some cases.

New mortgages have been steadily on the rise over the past year as prices declined at a slower rate. Standard Chartered, Barclays, RAK Bank and HSBC are also increasing lending.

"While the past two years have been extremely challenging for the company - during a period of unprecedented turmoil in the global real estate and financial services sectors - we have persevered," said Varun Sood, the chief executive of Tamweel home financing.

Tamweel encountered problems in November 2008, because of its reliance on loans from banks and investors to finance its business. With no base of customer deposits to tide it over, the company had to quickly suspend lending when conditions worsened in credit markets and property prices dropped.

A government panel was formed in late 2008 to work out a merger between Tamweel and Amlak. The plan was ultimately scrapped.

DIB, the UAE's largest Sharia-compliant bank, raised its stake in Tamweel to 57.3 per cent in September. Tamweel did not say when or if trading would resume, and a spokesman said that decision was up to the Government.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Marina Heights rentals on Dubizzle in AED 90k to 115k range for 2 bed.
> 
> Larger Dorra Bay 2 bed (1700 sq ft) on Dubizzle currently listed in the range AED 110k to 120k per year. Price per sq ft lower than marina heights.


Your data is a little skewed, I found a 1500sq ft 2 bed Dorrabay full marina view and sea view from master bed for 130k. Prices seem to be holding in Dorrabay on the marina view side

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

I hear those full marina view and sea view units on the corner are the best apartments in the building.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The average 2 bed in dorra bay is 115k. The skewed data or exception is the one at 130k


----------



## speculator

HELP WITH SNAGGING

I have been invited for a property snagging inspection pre handover.

I have searched a couple of companies in Dubai that carry out the inspection for a fee but obviously a recommendation is always welcome.

Can anyone recommend a company that they or a friend have used. Thanks


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> The average 2 bed in dorra bay is 115k. The skewed data or exception is the one at 130k


I should explain that I discovered that the 130k unit is the same model as mine possibly 1 floor up so my opinion will be biased

There are thousands of units in the marina and 6 different 2 bed layouts in Dorrabay but this particular apartment has a very unique masterbed. Bedrooms don't normaly come this roomy at around 8m x 4m overall with dressing area and double sink ensuite, but best of all it has a full height window facing the marina on one wall and a sea view bay window feature over looking the marina entrance on the other wall. Given also that the development is literaly seconds from the beach and the JBR walk, I think it's a steal.

Did I mention the nearby bridge which gives you quick exit from the marina to Abu Dhabi.:lol:


----------



## unknownpleasures

del1 said:


> Hello all Bermuda Views Investors,
> 
> I strongly recommend that you join our group, The Concerned Dubai Sports City Investors a.k.a Dubai Action Group.
> 
> www.concerneddubaisportscityinvestors.com
> 
> This group is for people who have invested in Bermuda Views, Eagle Heights, Profile Residence, Stadium Point & Jasmine Gardens. We are based out of Ireland but have members from all over the world.
> 
> We have held meetings with Innovation, RERA and are in contact with Sports City. We have also recently received legal opinion on the Addendum to the contract from our Dubai legal team.
> 
> The larger our group becomes the more strength and clout we will hopefully be able to use to insist on Innovation entering talks with us.


^^

It was mentioned on the grapevine some time ago that they were tearing the building down (in part perhaps)....the reason why workers returned...not continue to build but pull down!

Sounds like Probir Chaterjee has revoked on any promises previously made...not a good sign...but then it he was part of the original set up, leopards generally do not lose their spots, isn't that the saying??


Quote: Mr Probir Chatterjee said at his Dublin meetings in June that he would:

1) Prove to us who the people behind Innovation Sez Developers Ltd are. In particular he would prove that the people behind Profile were no longer involved.

2) Send us the accounts of all three development companies showing us how much money was collected in the past and what it was spent on.

3) Show us the budget for finishing the project and how much money Innovation was going to invest.

4) Send to us the committee, the proposed addendum to our contracts for our comments etc that would be considered in any final draft.

5) He agreed to allow one of our representatives have access to check whatever we deemed worth checking at the building sites and at the escrow accounts

In addition we have looked for guarantees to be included in the addendum such as protection of our existing legal rights under our old contracts, guarantees on future maintenance service contracts etc

So far he has failed to carry out or prove any of the above and has contacted us over the weekend to say that he will now be sending out the addendum directly to individual purchasers at Bermuda Views in a final draft only. Probir has no room for negotiation on any of the clauses. We cannot comment on the addendum because we have not seen it yet, but it was and still is our intention to send the addendum to our new legal representatives in Dubai for their opinion and comment. Probir wants purchasers to sign and return the addendum when they receive it. The committee recommends that you hold off on signing the addendum until we get legal advice on it. Feel free to contact the committee at [email protected] with any questions you have.


----------



## cazzie

Mistermark said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1. What are you smoking; and
> 
> 2. Can I please have some?


Well, couldn't have describiit much better


----------



## bizzybonita

^^+1


----------



## TerryPop

*glass empty or half full *

In the red corner:


*Saudi billionaire Prince Alwaleed bin Talal has forecast that Dubai’s depressed property prices will take several more years to hit bottom and start a recovery because the market is still oversupplied.

“There are new buildings coming out. I think we have not seen the bottom in real estate [in Dubai], there are years to come,” Alwaleed said in excerpts of an interview with Arabian Business online magazine posted on Thursday.

“I don’t believe you are there yet because more supply is coming,” said Alwaleed, a nephew of Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah, in the interview.*


Vs 

*Al Nehayan who said he did not see a huge supply of ready units flooding the Dubai market in the near future. “The numbers that we used to talk about in the industry of 50,000, 60,000, and 80,000 units coming on every year – we’re not seeing that,” he said.

“There is no glut coming up in the next three years because nobody is paying for it, and the contractors are not delivering it, and the developers cannot continue with these projects,” he said, adding that scaled-down projects and developments phased out over longer periods of time are “good news” for the industry".............Dubai World announced last month it reached an agreement its creditors to restructure $24.9 billion of debt, Al Nehayan said. “When that announcement happened, we saw the turnaround already.”

*


who the faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaark are you backing? :cheers:


----------



## dubaimarina2008

http://www.emirates247.com/property...t-paid-service-fee-either-2010-11-01-1.311643


----------



## FARIBA

Just spoke to someone from the DSC office who knows about the other developers and what's going on.trust me as if i was pulling teeth out it was not easy to get an direct answer from her well finally she told me the news regarding the delay of ct4 as i susspected for a while now is not the roff top issue or any other b.s that they are saying but that they are trying to gather their money as she put's it. 

when i asked you mean they have cash flew problesm she said yes.well now what i don't know what we can do ? this project may get cancell if they don't come up with the money soon i think and if that happens does anyone knows what happens to our money?
if anyone has more info please share it.


----------



## Beppe786

Found this on Default notice's

http://www.ecademy.com/node.php?id=156345


----------



## True Blue

^^This landmark decision will rock a few boats.

Pleth, you should read it and follow the link on arbitration to a good article.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> The average 2 bed in dorra bay is 115k. The skewed data or exception is the one at 130k


Had a look today as my tenants cheque was a little late getting banked. There is now a 2 bed unit at 140k making the average 120k.

I previously predicted that the market would "stretch vertically", the low quality units would keep going down and the high quality units would soften. It looks like high quality units are actually on the rise as the market is accepting that their is nothing in the pipeline of quality coming in vast quantity. 

Someone posted earlier of letting their Al Majara 2 bed for 130k just recently, positive signs for owners of quality waterfront property


----------



## shagdash

What a million dirhams will buy you in Dubai

From a Springs villa to a two-bed on the Marina here’s what’s on offer in prime locations

If you had a million dirhams a couple of years ago, and were in the market for a decent family pad in Dubai, chances are you settled for a 1-bed shack in a somewhat remote location, with a fair commute to your workplace.

Fast forward to 2010, when cash is king, and you have plenty of choice within the same budget. The global property price-correction contagion has spread to Dubai, once the world’s fastest rising property market, and has managed to impact the valuations of properties in even the most established parts of the emirate.

A million dirhams in spare cash today can make you the proud owner of a villa in the Springs, or a two-bed luxury apartment in the Marina or the Greens, or a one-bedroom space in Downtown Dubai, or, if you’re so inclined, six studios in International City with cash to spare.

While it’ll probably take a very brave or a rather irrational realtor to call it the bottom of the market even today, any investor with a long-term horizon can find rich pickings in the market today. Emirates 24|7 scanned the listings for delivered properties and produced below is an indicative list of what a million dirhams will buy you in various locations across Dubai.

Also, remember that these are the miniumum asking prices in various locations. Rates may vary according to the vicinity of a particular property to different landmarks, including parks, hospitals, Metro stations et al. Moreover, since these are asking prices, investors with ready cash, an eye for spotting seller distress or superior negotiating prowess may be able to strike an ever better rate. Happy hunting!

Let’s first have a look at what’s available on or around the Sheikh Zayed Road.

If you want a prestigious address, spend about half a million dirhams and a studio in Downtown Dubai can be yours. A good-sized studio apartment (543 sqft) is available for Dh549,000 at the rate of Dh1011 per sqft.

In the Business Bay area, you can get a one-bedroom unit of about 800 sqft for just under Dh650,000. The rates vary with the size of the unit and the view of the Burj.

There is also choice for families looking to upgrade from apartments to villas. In The Springs, you can get a two-bedroom villa (middle unit) for Dh1m (size: 1690 sqft), making it a good deal at Dh591 per sqft. This is almost half of what a same-sized villa was available for in 2008. The going rate then was Dh1065 per sqft.

Next to Springs is Jumeriah Lake Towers, the brand new development with creatively-shaped buildings. Here, your shopping list could include three studio apartments, or a combo deal of a one-bedroom plus a studio apartment; or a two-bedroom apartment in a million Ds and you’d still have cash left to furnish your house quite well. The available rates in the area are:

Studio: Dh305,000; Size: 393 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh776

One-bedroom: Dh535,000; Size: 737 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh725

Two-bedroom: Dh800,000; Size: 1273 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh628

Additionally, distress sellers are also willing to offload their units at Dh630,000 (size: 1259 sqft) at Dh500 per sqft.

Across the road is Dubai Marina, once touted as an area exclusively for the elite with their private yachts docked at the marina, it has now become affordable to the average Ali. The going rates in the area are:

Studio: Dh380,000; Size: 374 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh1016

One-bedroom: Dh508,000; Size: 977 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh519

Two-bedroom: Dh799,000; Size: 1000 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh799

Opposite the Marina lies Jumeriah Beach Residence, another area that has witnessed steep declines in its value but still faring better than Marina in the same area for its sea-front attribute. The going rates in JBR are:

Studio: Dh700,000; Size: 565 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh1238

One-bedroom: Dh720,000; Size: 900 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh800

Coming back to the other side of Sheikh Zayed Road, The Greens, a decent place by Emaar with plenty of green spaces and play areas, preferred by families, has become affordable again. The going rates in the area are:

Studio: Dh379,000; Size: 424 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh893

One-bedroom: Dh600,000; Size: 741 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh809

Two-bedroom: Dh800,000; Size: 1060 sqft; Price sqft: Dh755

Getting a little farther away from Sheikh Zayed Road, the main artery of Dubai, things get even more interesting.

Units in the Green Community, sometimes considered too pricey despite being away from the city centre, have also come under the million-dirham range. The rates in the community are:

Studio: Dh399,000; Size: 540 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh739

Two-bedroom: Dh999,999; Size: 1561 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh641

Moving a little away from Sheikh Zayed Road and towards Emirates Road/Al Khail Road, Jumeriah Village offers a one-bedroom villa for Dh850,000 of size: 1636 sqft with a price of per sqft: Dh520.

While on Emirates Road, have a look at Motor City, also a little off the way, but has plenty to offer under the million-dirham threshold. The rates are:

Studio: Dh380,000; Size: 710 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh535

One-bedroom: Dh550,000; Size: 1052 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh522

Two-bedroom: Dh900,000; Size: 1413 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh636

Finally, International City, touted the cheapest place available in the city, still holds the title and you can buy a lot there if you plan going shopping in the area. Six studios in a million dirhams might sound too far-fetched but it isn’t. Here are the going rates:

Studio: Dh165,000 Size: 479 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh344

One-bedroom: Dh265,000, Size: 732 Sqft; Price per sqft: Dh362

Two-bedroom: Dh600,000, Size: 1350 sqft; Price per sqft: Dh444

And if you’re still wondering if these are good valuations, below are average prices of these properties a couple of years ago.

Tentative rates in 2008

- Palm Jumeirah, Garden Home Villa - Dh1700 per sqft

- International City, Studio - Dh1086 per sqft

- Jumeirah Lake Towers - Dh1150 per sqft

- Al Furjan Townhouses - Dh1029 per sqft

- Burj Dubai Lake Hotel/The Address - Dh2550 per sqft

- Business Bay, Executive Towers - Dh1250 per sqft

- Dubai Marina - Dh1325 per sqft

- Jumeirah Beach Residence - Dh1750 per sqf

http://www.emirates247.com/property...ams-will-buy-you-in-dubai-2010-10-12-1.302801

Interesting that many people seem to think that prices have yet to fall furthur!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> Had a look today as my tenants cheque was a little late getting banked. There is now a 2 bed unit at 140k making the average 120k.


There is also now a 2 bed in Dorra Bay with sea view listed for AED 95k per year.

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

I found 12 x 2 bed units listed for rent in Dorra Bay now, seems like quite a lot. The average price works out at AED 115,833 per year, so prices are falling in Dorra Bay. When the Silverene and Infinity units are being rented out expect the listed price to fall further in Dorra Bay.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> There is also now a 2 bed in Dorra Bay with sea view listed for AED 95k per year.
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=
> 
> I found 12 x 2 bed units listed for rent in Dorra Bay now, seems like quite a lot. The average price works out at AED 115,833 per year, so prices are falling in Dorra Bay. When the Infinity units are being rented out expect the listed price to fall further in Dorra Bay.


If you look at the 95k unit it is actually 100k 2 cheques 95k 1 cheque. I calculated exactly 120k average after removing the listings which say they are Dorrabay but they are not. This is common practice by unscrupulous agents trying to latch onto a search criterea.

It basically boils down to the fact that prices in this development have not dropped. The 100k unit is an inside unit with a poor layout.


----------



## TerryPop

great post- thanks




shagdash said:


> What a million dirhams will buy you in Dubai
> 
> From a Springs villa to a two-bed on the Marina here’s what’s on offer in prime locations
> 
> If you had a million dirhams a couple of years ago, and were in the market for a decent family pad in Dubai, chances are you settled for a 1-bed shack in a somewhat remot.....- Burj Dubai Lake Hotel/The Address - Dh2550 per sqft
> 
> - Business Bay, Executive Towers - Dh1250 per sqft
> 
> - Dubai Marina - Dh1325 per sqft
> 
> - Jumeirah Beach Residence - Dh1750 per sqf
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/property...ams-will-buy-you-in-dubai-2010-10-12-1.302801
> 
> Interesting that many people seem to think that prices have yet to fall furthur!


----------



## True Blue

That article is poorly written in a sensationalism style. They refer to a luxury 2 bed in the marina at 1000ft2. :nuts:


----------



## Furu

Hi All,

I'm also new here. I have 2 bedroom in building #2. I have same problem with all of you. But I'm not in Dubai. If you have any update, pls share it with me. [email protected]

Thank you
Furu


----------



## pisandre

spring999 said:


> any news about century tower, shall we submit this case to dubai court mediaton center.


Hi Spring999. Long time... Well we have to wait for the end of the grace period (Mid 2011) before we start showing our balls to Rufi. Then we can take action.


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> ^^This landmark decision will rock a few boats.
> 
> Pleth, you should read it and follow the link on arbitration to a good article.


I am getting exhausted just reading it, this poor investor has been driven around in circles for more than 12 months.

First loosing the case because the court did not check how much construction was actually done, but chose to believe the developer claiming that less than 60% construction was done.
The actual figure was less than2%.
The investor first loosing the case even the developer had failed to establish an escrow account, thereby breaching the provisions of Law No (8). Furthermore, it was also discovered that the investor's unit had not been registered in his name as is required, still the developer won the first round!! hno:

Doesn't that tell you a bit about the system?
IMO higher powers in Dubai do not want to part with the billions in the Escrow account as they cannot afford it.


----------



## pdeol

http://www.emirates247.com/property...o-register-freehold-title-2010-11-02-1.312332

Offshore companies will not be able to register freehold properties in the Land Department of Dubai unless they are registered with Jebel Ali Free Zone Authority (Jafza), Emirates 24|7 can reveal.
The new rules will be implemented from next year, with the Land Department now continuing to issue title deeds for offshore companies who have proper documentation, people familiar with the matter said.
Dubai-based Hadef and Partners have confirmed that titles to freehold properties will not be registered at the Land Department unless a "no-objection certificate" is procured from Jafza. However, in its property update, it said the department has started implementing a new policy effective October 26.


----------



## jeetha

Pleth said:


> Doesn't that tell you a bit about the system?
> IMO higher powers in Dubai do not want to part with the billions in the Escrow account as they cannot afford it.


^^Yes! it does sound like that.

Also where do these people that work in Dubai Land Developments live?
Surely not in Dubai. 

Otherwise they would know what’s happening in their backyards.


----------



## glover

this indeed will put a brake on RERA's bias on the side of developers. But the market should be aware of such game-changing court rulings, and cases like this should be well publicized to really have an effect on the conduct of both developers and RERA. it is a shame that no newspaper have reported this ruling!!



Beppe786 said:


> Found this on Default notice's
> 
> http://www.ecademy.com/node.php?id=156345


----------



## mackie1964

Pleth said:


> I am getting exhausted just reading it, this poor investor has been driven around in circles for more than 12 months.
> 
> First loosing the case because the court did not check how much construction was actually done, but chose to believe the developer claiming that less than 60% construction was done.
> The actual figure was less than2%.
> The investor first loosing the case even the developer had failed to establish an escrow account, thereby breaching the provisions of Law No (8). Furthermore, it was also discovered that the investor's unit had not been registered in his name as is required, still the developer won the first round!! hno:
> 
> Doesn't that tell you a bit about the system?
> *IMO higher powers in Dubai do not want to part with the billions in the Escrow account as they cannot afford it*.


What Escrow accounts! Do you really believe there is much left in them? I don't think so :nuts:


----------



## seanmacaoidh

*message form Hendrik*

deleted wrong thread


----------



## bizzybonita

TerryPop said:


> In the red corner:
> 
> 
> *Saudi billionaire Prince Alwaleed bin Talal has forecast that Dubai’s depressed property prices will take several more years to hit bottom and start a recovery because the market is still oversupplied.
> 
> “There are new buildings coming out. I think we have not seen the bottom in real estate [in Dubai], there are years to come,” Alwaleed said in excerpts of an interview with Arabian Business online magazine posted on Thursday.
> 
> “I don’t believe you are there yet because more supply is coming,” said Alwaleed, a nephew of Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah, in the interview.*
> 
> 
> Vs
> 
> *Al Nehayan who said he did not see a huge supply of ready units flooding the Dubai market in the near future. “The numbers that we used to talk about in the industry of 50,000, 60,000, and 80,000 units coming on every year – we’re not seeing that,” he said.
> 
> “There is no glut coming up in the next three years because nobody is paying for it, and the contractors are not delivering it, and the developers cannot continue with these projects,” he said, adding that scaled-down projects and developments phased out over longer periods of time are “good news” for the industry".............Dubai World announced last month it reached an agreement its creditors to restructure $24.9 billion of debt, Al Nehayan said. “When that announcement happened, we saw the turnaround already.”
> 
> *
> 
> 
> who the faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaark are you backing? :cheers:


+111


----------



## seanmacaoidh

sorry wrong thread was meant to go into CUBE


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Report: Dubai rents continue to fall as supply outweighs demand*

Landlords in newly-handed over buildings in Dubai are slashing rents by up to 30% below market rates in order to boost occupancy as the emirate's supply pipeline continues to weigh heavily on the market, according to a new report by real estate consultancy Landmark Advisory. 

The firm's November 2010 lease guide for Dubai found that property rents had fallen significantly since its most recent report issued in June. 

"Tenants realise it is currently a renters' market and want more value for their rental dirhams and, so, are able to leverage alternative options to negotiate very attractive deals,' said Jesse Downs, Director of Research & Advisory, Landmark Advisory. 'Some developers and landlords are finally realising the implications of this supply pipeline and are slashing rents by up to 20%-30% below market rates in order to achieve higher occupancy in newly handed-over buildings.' 

These new pricing strategies have particularly significant implications for the areas with the most substantial supply pipelines. 'These properties are setting the new market rates,' Downs said.

Looking ahead, the report predicts that lease rates in Dubai will continue to fall, with the biggest drops occurring in areas that have maintenance and infrastructure problems. One example cited in the report was International City, which has seen rents fall 38% since June 2010 (from Dhs22,000 to Dhs16,000 per annum). 

'Of course, these declines are caused by increasing supply in the area and overall rental trends in Dubai. However, the severity of the lower limit decline is also attributed to ongoing concerns about maintenance and the community,' Downs said.

*Dubai Marina rents fall 27%*

Meanwhile, areas such as Dubai Marina, JLT and The Views have seen big declines primarily due to the handover of new buildings. Rents on quality two bedroom apartments in Dubai Marina have declined by 27% since June, whereas a comparable unit in Downtown fell by 6% in the same period, the report noted.

To measure how pricing impacts occupancy, Landmark tracked three new Dubai Marina buildings in their first three months after handover. The buildings with the most competitive pricing achieved 90% occupancy within three months of handover, while those with high rates and a rigid pricing strategy had just 40% of units occupied in the same time frame. 

The report also examined supply and demand dynamics across Dubai and Abu Dhabi, and predicted that rents in Dubai will decline in spite of rising demand from commuter in the capital. 'We estimate that average vacancy rates in Dubai are currently 15%-18% but will increase to 19%-24% by 2012. Even considering the Abu Dhabi commuter demand, it is clear that average rents in Dubai will continue on a downward trajectory,' Downs said. 

*Dubai villa rents fall less sharply*

Similarly, villas in areas with maintenance or infrastructural problems witnessed greater price falls than those areas which are comparatively unaffected, the report noted. Jumeirah Islands witnessed an average drop in lower limits of 16% across all unit types, compared to a drop in the Meadows of only 9%.

'Recently handed-over villa communities in Dubai have suffered severe price drops as many landlords have struggled to attract tenants to areas lacking basic amenities and infrastructure or within/near construction zones,' the report added.

http://www.ameinfo.com/247871.html


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> *Dubai Marina rents fall 27%*
> 
> Meanwhile, areas such as Dubai Marina, JLT and The Views have seen big declines primarily due to the handover of new buildings. *Rents on quality two bedroom apartments in Dubai Marina have declined by 27% since June,* whereas a comparable unit in Downtown fell by 6% in the same period, the report noted.
> 
> http://www.ameinfo.com/247871.html


^^Absolute nonsense!!!! 

No way the market has dropped 27% in 6 months. I haven't seen any drop in Jewels or Dorrabay 2 beds in practically a year, so where has he got his data from?


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> ^^Absolute nonsense!!!!
> 
> No way the market has dropped 27% in 6 months. I haven't seen any drop in Jewels or Dorrabay 2 beds in practically a year, so where has he got his data from?


Not to many rent's would fall if some of the owner's knew how to negotiate properly, or were not over extended in debt.

Some owner's come to Dubai for a few day's, and try to get everything done in as little time as possible. If you try harder, you get result's.

Even spending time to make your place look better is alway's a good option.


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## Porcello

True Blue said:


> ^^Absolute nonsense!!!!
> 
> No way the market has dropped 27% in 6 months. I haven't seen any drop in Jewels or Dorrabay 2 beds in practically a year, so where has he got his data from?


I suspect that they make their index by looking at the lowest advertised rent in Dubizzle, so it might be based on distressed asking prices. Also, many rental contracts registered with DEWA are "optimized" in order to reduce housing fees so that also the data provided by the municipality is potentially skewed downwards.

Is there still anybody who believes in indexes and reports produced by the same people who created the bubble during boom times and said that the upwards trend will never stop?


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## dubaiprojects

In my case rentals dropped at 13.3% as compare to last year.

It all depends on how you negotiate with your tenant...

cheers


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## Poolview

Can anyone tell me what is the current rate of commission that property management company's charge just now :cheers:


----------



## True Blue

dubaiprojects said:


> In my case rentals dropped at 13.3% as compare to last year.
> 
> It all depends on how you negotiate with your tenant...
> 
> cheers


I saw a reduction of 9.2% between April 2009 and April 2010. However there is an apartment like mine advertised for the rate I got in 2009. Obviously advertised and realised figures may be different, but the fact that the average asking for the development is the same as what I am currently receiving suggests that prices are stable with resepct to this established development. The problem may be with recently handed over units that are trying to attract tenants by offering low rates and therefore skewing the figures.

If a tenant wants to move they will have new commision to pay, relocation/removal expenses, new utility connections to arrange and possibly an argument with their old landlord over the deposit relating to the exit condition of the old unit. In other words it has to be a damned attractive deal or it isn't worth the hassle.

I think that publishing a story that states that rents have fallen by 27% in 6 months for luxury 2 beds in the marina, is wreckless at the least and only serves to further upset a reasonably stable market where landlords and tenants are constantly trying to find a balance.


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## Dubai_Steve

^^ A Dorra Bay 2 bed that was listed at AED 130k and now at AED 95k is exactly a 27% fall in price? Are you saying that units similar to the 95k Dorra Bay 2 bed were never listed at 130k ?


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## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ A Dorra Bay 2 bed that was listed at AED 130k and now at AED 95k is exactly a 27% fall in price? Are you saying that units similar to the 95k Dorra Bay 2 bed were never listed at 130k ?


You can neither prove nor dissprove your statement as you and I do not have access to this particular apartments details. One thing is for sure that it was not listed 6 months ago at 130k if it was ever listed at all. I also pointed out to you that the 95k was only available in 1 cheque which is very rare now. Perhaps this landlord has a problem he is hoping to resolve by offering his apartment for a below the market rate for a 1 cheque quick fix. That situation can not be relied upon to demonstrate a point about a mature market.


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## Dubai_Steve

Surely there was a very similar 2 bed in Dorra Bay listed at 130k for 1 cheque in the last 6 months or so? Is there something wrong with the 95k one, very bad view or layout or something?

The description is:

2 Bedroom in DORRABAY
DUBAI MARINA
1443sqft
seaview and partial szr view
kitchen equipped - big sized open kitchen
above 5th floor

Amenities: Central A/C & Heating, Balcony, Shared Pool, Built in Wardrobes, Pets Allowed, Shared Gym, Security, Covered Parking, Built in Kitchen Appliances, View of Water

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...1&is_basic_search_widget=1&keywords=dorra+bay


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## bizzybonita

*Property Sale deed can be terminated in case of difference in specs*


The legal experts in Dubai have clarified that a purchaser can approach a competent court to seek termination of the sale contract, in case of any material difference is found between specifications mentioned in the sale contract and the actual specifications delivered.

A Partner and Head of Real Estate Middle East for Norton Rose group, Nick Clayson, said that the law does offer protection to purchasers, in case the measurements and/or specifications of a property differ from that mentioned in actual purchase agreement. But, the remedies provided, depends on the degree of deviation.

A Partner at Afridi & Angell, Shahram Safai, said that general the specifications are so different that the purchaser would not have even received the benefit of his/her bargain.

Decree 6 of 2010 stipulates that a purchaser can even seek termination of a purchase contract, in case the specifications are considerably changed, he pointed out.

According to the current rule, in case the measurement of a property is found to be more than five percent less than the measurement of the property specified in sales and purchase agreement (SPA), the developer is obliged to compensate the purchaser.

A well-drafted contract should specify the rights and remedies of the parties in the event of any discrepancies in such issues. But, even the contract tend to be fairly varied in the region, when it comes to such issued, and do not match international measuring standards, Clayson said.

However, the best thing that a purchaser can do, is to ensure that he obtains a well-drafted contract with intentions of the parties clearly set out and retain copies of all correspondence with developer in respect of the property, he said.

Clayson further pointed out that obtaining a snagging report on completion of the property can also assist the purchaser in the event of any subsequent claims against the developer.

Meanwhile, Safai said that a report by quantity surveyor or professional engineer commissioned to make such an assessment may be required to prove difference in specifications in such issues, although snagging reports may prove as helpful supporting documents.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Surely there was a very similar 2 bed in Dorra Bay listed at 130k for 1 cheque in the last 6 months or so? Is there something wrong with the 95k one, very bad view or layout or something?
> 
> The description is:
> 
> 2 Bedroom in DORRABAY
> DUBAI MARINA
> 1443sqft
> seaview and partial szr view
> kitchen equipped - big sized open kitchen
> above 5th floor
> 
> Amenities: Central A/C & Heating, Balcony, Shared Pool, Built in Wardrobes, Pets Allowed, Shared Gym, Security, Covered Parking, Built in Kitchen Appliances, View of Water
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...1&is_basic_search_widget=1&keywords=dorra+bay




In April this year there were about 3 units listed for 100-110k. Agents advised me that 110k was realistic however I pointed out that my unit was sold at a premium from the developer due to it's superior layout and views therefore I wanted a premium on the rental and therefore do not show it to anyone who wants to haggle below 120k. First guy who viewed it took it straight away before I had even finished the upgrading touches.

That unit you list above is on the front of the building facing the road and Jumeirah towers building site. The balcony is on the North elevation and never gets the sun. There are no more 2 beds above 6th on North side so traffic noise could be an issue while relaxing on the balcony.

Like I say, giving my own actual data for a luxury 2 bed marina facing, the rental has been stable over the last few years. Not plummeting like the agents and statistitians would have you believe. Signs of a maturing market.

As an aside, I am on 2 cheques and the second was due 1st November but the tenant contacted me to arrange a cheque swap for cash payment as he was no longer using the bank he wrote the original cheque from. I was a bit concerned that this was a move on situation but he paid cash into my account and then swapped the cheque for the payment slip confirmation. So he must still be happy with the rate. Agent told me some tenants are offering to sign 2 year tenancy agreements to try and get the price down on Dorrabay. All good signs!


----------



## Flintbug

I am with True Blue on the stable market front. 

My own experience of renting out a better quality (views and furnishings) 1 bed in JLT suggest no significant drop over the last year.
The agents said the rents had dropped by about 30% but I still got the same first through the door offer as a year ago and this time I was offered a single cash payment for the entire year rather than 4 cheques.

If you have the unique wow factor you don't have to compete with the thousands of commodity studios and one/two beds.


----------



## Josau

My tenant has renewed his contract for my tastefully furnished and fully equipped Marina View Tower B studio with spectacular unobstructed views of the Marina and the tallest block in August 
for 60 000 dhs in 4 cheques. As True Blue states: the market is maturing and the vow factor, the layout, the view etc. ( even within the same building) make a difference, just as they do in London, New York or in Paris. Before, all real estate was treated the same and only the sqf counted. These times are gone.


----------



## dubaimarina2008

*Property developers to shoulder service charges of unsold units*

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...lder-service-charges-of-unsold-units-1.706572


----------



## SELKHOLY

*Law Suit*

Hi, 

Is construction work still on hold? I would like to join a group law suit. My email is [email protected]


----------



## baba toto

BANK FINANCE

Why are all off plan projects on hold???? Banks are not willing to lend to developers, so we investors have lost our money. When will banks lend???


----------



## True Blue

^^As soon as the developers can convince the banks that;


They have a bullet proof business plan in place.
They have invested or provided a sufficient percentage of collateralised guarantees to minimise the bank's exposure should the plan fail.

These were the foundation principles of lending pre 2000 which became diluted in the crazy period of unsecured lending which led to a worldwide property boom and ultimately the bubble bursting and collapse of the world banks as we knew them. 

Now it's back to first principles.


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## i love dubai

My Marina Diamond 1 bedroom unit was rented for 100k in 2008, 70k in 2009. This year, it has been vacant for 4 months asking price, 50k.


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## True Blue

^^Proving my point that the market is being stretched vertically. The difference between the top and bottom of the market is widening.

Thanks for the feedback, we need real life data to prove that the market analysts who are being paid lots of money to get it right are* getting it wrong*!


----------



## dubaiprojects

i love dubai said:


> My Marina Diamond 1 bedroom unit was rented for 100k in 2008, 70k in 2009. This year, it has been vacant for 4 months asking price, 50k.


I rented mine (another project) 1 bed (850sqft) for 95 in 2008, 75 in 2009 and 70 in 2010 and just
renewed last month for 65 for the period of 2011.

I wonder how you were able to rent it for 100k in 2008 as that's a bit high considering the prospect of marina diamond.
I guess if you lower it to 45k, it may be rented, if yes, that proves that only quality apartments will be able to rent in longer terms.

Interesting Gulfnews: http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/property-developers-to-shoulder-service-charges-of-unsold-units-1.706572


----------



## i love dubai

My unit is 769 sq ft and has a partial view of the marina. I don't live in Dubai so I have it managed by a rental agency. They are the one who got me 100k one cheque in 2008, 70k 6 cheques in 2009.
I checked the gulf news adds, only one unit is listed for rent in the marina diamond 6, for 50k and it is smaller than mine. 1 unit in MD5 listed for 65k, and one was listed for 60k last week but it is not available anymore.
I don't know if this is normal, or the rental agency is not putting enough, if any effort in trying to rent it.


----------



## dubaiprojects

i love dubai said:


> My unit is 769 sq ft and has a partial view of the marina. I don't live in Dubai so I have it managed by a rental agency. They are the one who got me 100k one cheque in 2008, 70k 6 cheques in 2009.
> I checked the gulf news adds, only one unit is listed for rent in the marina diamond 6, for 50k and it is smaller than mine. 1 unit in MD5 listed for 65k, and one was listed for 60k last week but it is not available anymore.
> I don't know if this is normal, or the rental agency is not putting enough, if any effort in trying to rent it.


You should try multiple agents, have one person in dubai the keys who can assist all these agents when a clients wants to view your apartment.
I can provide you some of the agent contact numbers if you like pm me.

cheers


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> I think that publishing a story that states that rents have fallen by 27% in 6 months for luxury 2 beds in the marina, is wreckless at the least and only serves to further upset a reasonably stable market where landlords and tenants are constantly trying to find a balance.


http://www.thenational.ae/business/...advantage-in-the-dubai-rents-game?pageCount=1

I'm looking forward to the next three months. I am just about to enter the final quarter of the lease on my apartment in Dubai Marina and the renegotiation phase begins now.

For once, I think I'm going to enjoy it.

It will be the fifth time I've entered lease negotiations as a tenant in the emirate and on each previous occasion I've hated the feeling of extreme vulnerability. The first three times, with the property boom in full swing, were the worst.

I felt a bit like that hapless Brazilian defender Maicon, who played for Inter Milan in the football game against my team, Tottenham, the other night. The poor chap was beaten so many times by Tottenham's star winger, Gareth Bale, that, in the end, it was embarrassing.

That's how it was for me, too, in my talks with landlords. I, and they, knew that all they had to do was raise the pace, slide the ball past me with a demand for a rent increase and I'd be well and truly beaten again, left grovelling and committed to a new and exorbitant lease for the next 12 months.

Last year, with rents across the emirate beginning to slide, I thought I might be able to get one over my landlord for once. But he just hit me with a burst of pace in the final stages and I was left potentially suckered again.

I called his bluff, however, and refused to sign. I had to move, of course, swapping my cosy little Umm Suqqeim villa for an apartment in the Marina - and moving was a traumatic experience. But at least I'd broken the spiral of rent increases and was able to watch with satisfaction as my old villa stayed empty for four months after my departure.

The landlord had already lost more than all the increase he had asked me for in those four months and I'm sure that in the end he had to lower the rent. It was a small but gratifying victory for the tenants.

*This time, the force is with me in the game against the landlords. The reason I'm so confident is a recent report from the real estate advisory firm Landmark Properties*, which appears to confirm the trend this year in the Dubai property market: prices (both rental and sales) are plummeting as new residential units come on the market, especially in some of the most desirable parts of the city, such as the Marina.

These are developments that were virtually complete when the credit crisis hit. Final handover was delayed by the financial storm, but now, with some stability returning to the Dubai economy, landlords and developers cannot wait any longer: they have to get the units on the market to cover their development and purchase costs.

The result is a large supply of new property. From where I am sitting writing this column - the 44th floor of an apartment block at the northern end of the Marina - I can see at least 10 new towers in Jumeirah Lakes, the huge development just the other side of Sheikh Zayed Road; there are more dotted around the Marina itself and more still on the Media City side of the Marina and in Al Barsha near the Mall of the Emirates.

According to Landmark, landlords in these new developments are "severely undercutting" market rates to entice occupants into their property. This has led to rental declines of 38 per cent this year in some developments in the emirate, Landmark says.

Even in the more desirable locations, such as the Marina, landlords are offering 20 to 30 per cent reductions for first-time tenants. For them, there is nothing worse than a completed but empty apartment block. Landlords want tenants and are dramatically reducing their income expectations to get them.

The decline reflects the overall slowdown in Dubai property since the peak in the summer of 2008. JP Morgan, the US investment bank, said property prices would decline by as much as 80 per cent from their peak before recovery sets in; and just a few days ago, the Saudi Arabian businessman Prince Alwaleed bin Talal bin Abdulaziz Al Saud told a Dubai website property in the emirate would continue to fall as new supply came on stream. All that sounds pretty conclusive

Some of my friends have already benefited. A family from the same apartment block, who had been paying Dhs150,000 (US$40,841) a year for a three-bedroom apartment, moved to a new block just 100 metres away and into a bigger place at Dh110,000.

And there has already been a knock-on effect in the market for villas; another friend recently swapped his Dh200,000 villa in Jumeirah for a similar one just a stone's throw away at Dh140,000.

With those kinds of precedents, I'm surely on a winner. All I've got to say to landlords and agents over the next three months is this: come on, make my day.


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## gerald.d

^^

Our moves -

March 2008: 150K = 2 bedroom "villa" in Arabian Ranches that was about 1200 sq ft of liveable space.
March 2009: 150K = 2 bedroom 2000+ sq ft apartment in JLT (in one of the best buildings)
June 2010: 150K = 2,700 sq foot 3 bedroom apartment on >40th flloor in immaculate building in Downtown Dubai with unobstructed views of Burj Khalifa, Dubai Fountain & Old Town.

As I posted earlier, that JP Morgan report that said prices would go down as much as 80% from their peak, also stated that currently, prices were at 60% of their peak, implying a 50% drop from where they are now.


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## speculator

*CHEER UP GUYS THINGS COULD BE A LOT WORSE:*

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...ouse-of-wood-to-make-bonfire-100252-27611399/

Landlord shocked after yobs strip his house of wood to make bonfire

Nov 6 2010 by Lorna Hughes, Liverpool Echo
Comments (18)
Recommend

* 1
* 2
* next

Yobs

Yobs

YOBS were caught stripping a Merseyside house of wood to make a bonfire.

An estate agent who called at the property yesterday discovered the brazen gang as they were ripping out doors, kitchen units and a staircase. Police officers who had been sent to the house in Birkenhead because of an earlier burglary gave chase, but were unable to catch them.

Furious landlord Barry Lightburn later found the items – and his garden fence – dumped on a bonfire nearby.

Mr Lightburn, who has owned the house on Collin Road for six years, said he was left speechless at the destruction.

He estimates it will cost £10,000 to repair the damage.

He said: “There have been various tenants here since I’ve had this house and nothing like this has ever happened before, certainly not to this extent.

“The woman who lived here last moved out a couple of weeks ago and yesterday I had a phone call from the estate agents asking if I’d meet them at the house.

“They said something like ‘I think you’d better come to the property and see this’.

“I couldn’t believe it. They’ve taken the staircase, all the wood from the kitchen units and every single door.

“When I walked down the road, I could see it on the bonfire.”


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## MarkWass

http://www.emirates247.com/business/economy-finance/make-cancelled-projects-public-survey-2010-11-07-1.314401
*Make cancelled projects public: survey*
Greater transparency will assist recovery
By Parag Deulgaonkar
Published Sunday, November 07, 2010 

About 87 per cent of respondents in Hadef and Partners’ new survey felt public announcements of cancellation of projects will assist Dubai’s real estate market as the issue is creating uncertainty amongst investors.
The Dubai-based legal consultancy in its report titled “What is the legal state of the Dubai real estate market?” said an overwhelming 90 per cent said developers, who cancel or place developments on hold without a definitive completion date, should be required to pay loss of profit related damages to buyers who are not in default.
“Many respondents felt it was unreasonable that developers are entitled to damages from buyers when it appears that developers are not being subjected to similar compensation. Notably several respondents accept that they may lose money (i.e. as a result of not receiving a full refund) if a project is cancelled but it seems that some are willing to accept this consequence in exchange for the desire for certainty,” Michael Lunjevich and Brent Baldwin, authors of the report, said.
The uncertainty is creating a prolonged negative effect for two primary reasons: Many market participants are gripped in a suspended state. They are unable to move on as they still do not know what is happening with their investments; and the supply side pipeline will remain skewed and uncertain until public announcements are made regarding cancelled projects. If the supply side numbers could be narrowed to actual deliverable units, and investors can move on with their lives after accepting that certain investments are lost then this will enable the market to move forward more quickly in the medium term. Prolonging the inevitable is unlikely to enable the commencement of the cleansing that is needed.
　
Hadef and Partners suggest there are several options that the government can consider as an alternative to cancellation of projects and/or the liquidation of developers. These include: the forced consolidation of development projects that individually have little chance of going ahead but might collectively stand a reasonable chance of viable delivery even if many years late.

A scheme could, for example, be put in place so that investors and developers in unviable projects have the option of consolidating partially sold projects into one single project. This would enable the assets of projects not going ahead to be sold off to raise money for the single project that is continuing.
This could be administered as a not-for-profit, publicly administered scheme in which all cash contributed by either developers or investors is aggregated and then divided into respective shares of the project. This could be supervised by a “development fidelity trust” that is responsible for pooling the funds, deciding which project goes ahead, determining participants’ respective shares and coordinating a lump sum construction contract.
Another option suggested is creation of a new law that allows (say) 66 per cent of stakeholders in a project to vote on a proposal by a developer to delay construction against a compensation package. Such a scheme would need to be open and transparent, for example, by way of offering investors additional financial information to demonstrate the future viability of the project.
Investors could then vote on whether to place the development on hold or terminate and sell it by public auction. Such a proposal could not only give the market time to recover, but also give investors more control over the future of the project in a manner that requires all participants to share the short term pain of a loss or collectively take the risk that the development will be viable in the future.
　
Insufficient stimulus
About 97 per of respondents believed greater transparency will assist in recovery of the real market, while only 39 per cent that Law No 9 and Decree No 6 (dealing with real estate disputes) had been useful.
Ninety per cent of respondents either agreed or strongly agreed that 'more laws and regulations are required to assist with the recovery'.
“This suggests that some respondents feel that existing laws are not providing sufficient stimulus in the right areas, or are not achieving the outcomes for which they were designed,” the authors said.
There was, however, an almost equal split between survey respondents who agree that current laws have had a positive impact on the real estate sector, and those who disagree. Sixty seven per cent of respondents consider that the new real estate laws had provided “limited help” with the recovery of the real estate market, while 64 per cent agreed that the existing laws were not being “adequately enforced.“ An overwhelming 92 per cent believed that “more investor protection was required.”
The Escrow Law, according to the report, was generally viewed to have been the most useful law with approximately 68 per cent of respondents agreeing to this. This was followed by the Landlord and Tenant Law with 57 per cent and the Jointly Owned Property (Strata) Law, Mortgage Law and Pre-registration Law each having 45 per cent of respondents who agreed they were useful.
Only 39 per cent of respondents felt that Law No 9 and Decree No 6 (dealing with real estate disputes) had been useful.
“This is interesting given the focus on dealing with real estate disputes over the last two years and demonstrates a continued lack of confidence by investors in the practical assistance these laws have provided. It is our view that the response of the Dubai regulators by way of introducing new laws has been acceptable and timely compared with other regional markets, however, the Dubai market has been struggling to catch up with the consequences of poor practices during 2005 to 2007 by a range developers,” the authors said.
According to the report, the regulators in Dubai had the added disadvantage of having to rapidly introduce regulation to previously unregulated market to address the real estate boom, and then react. It is no surprise that the laws have been tested so much, particularly as Dubai has not had the benefit of hundreds of years of legal and real estate development. This meant that the Escrow Law, Pre-Registration Law and other regulatory regimes designed to introduce order to the market were required to operate in a reactive manner to endeavour to catch up.
“This is not an enviable position to be in and most objective observers would sympathise with the challenge the regulator faced in trying to control market forces and some of the excesses of human nature. These issues were compounded by the operations of the regulator which were perceived by some market participants as lacking in transparency and clarity,” the report said.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Ah it's not all that bad is it...remember it's Dubai!


----------



## bizzybonita

Maximum demand for rentals under Dh50,000


Studios fall out of favour; Dubai Marina tops choice list










Properties being leased under Dh50,000 per annum are witnessing the maximum demand, as studios no longer remain the choice of most people, according to a report by Propertyfinder.ae.

"Almost one in five people now inquire about property for lease under Dh50,000 with studios barely looked at. People are viewing more desirable locations as they become more affordable and price wars keep very small and very large units at bay," the real estate website said in its third quarter report.

Dubai Marina tops the list with 19.2 per cent of the total sale searches and 16.8 per cent of total rental searches. Palm Jumeirah and Jumeirah Lakes Towers follow as next popular destinations.

"Traditional lower priced areas are struggling to keep afloat now as the more popular areas are experiencing a significant price competition. The good news is the quality of listings is getting better each month as a result of heightened competition," the report said.

Besides, the top price search rose to Dh2.5 million for the first time this year as majority of the buyers looked at properties in the Dh1.5m bracket.

The search results, according to *Propertyfinder.ae*, are stemming from over 550,000 visits, 3m property page, 100,000 properties and 200 brokers.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...or-rentals-under-dh50-000-2010-10-26-1.309260


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## bizzybonita

House prices in Dubai fell 6% in Q3: Colliers

Residential property in Dubai is now cheapest since second half of 2009.










Average house prices in Dubai declined a considerable 6 per cent in the third quarter this year to reach the lowest recorded level since Q2 2009, according to the Colliers International Q3 2010 Dubai House Price Index (HPI) published today.

The average house price in Dubai has now declined to below Dh1,000 per sq ft for the first time since last year. The index fell 7 basis points from 114 in Q2 2010 to 107 in Q3 2010, while the blended average house price for Q3 2010 was approximately Dh951 per ft² (Dh10,236/m²), down from Dh1,015 per ft² (AED 10,925/m²) in the second quarter, the Colliers report highlighted.

“Since Q3 2009, the index has been hovering around the same values, but in Q3 2010 the variation is larger, moving from an annual variation of last quarter of 1.8 per cent to 4.8 per cent this quarter. In effect, after a period of stable prices, we are beginning to witness a shallow but lengthening slide in overall average prices,” said Ian Albert, Regional Director at Colliers International.

The latest decline is the second consecutive quarter to have witnessed a decline this year, Colliers said. The year-on-year performance of the index followed the same pattern as the quarterly results, reflecting a 6 per cent decline in overall house price values from Q3 2009 to Q3 2010, with the index dropping from 114 to 108 points for the same period.

“This quarter’s decline can be attributed to the anticipated summer seasonal slowdown, evidenced by a quarter-on-quarter fall in transactions of 4 per cent, and the continued tightness of finance. Despite some improvements in Loan to Value ratios and interest rates, lenders, the banks and financial institutions remain committed to a conservative lending policy typified by greater due diligence in the lending criteria,” Albert added.

In the latest report, Colliers enhances its analysis with two further indicators that adopt different views to assess the relative strengths, weaknesses and position of the Dubai residential market. The first compares the performance of the HPI to the Dubai Financial Market since its inception in Q1 2007. Between inception and Q2 2010 the Index, reflective of an investment in the residential real estate market, has provided higher returns and much lower degree of volatility.

The second indicator to be introduced is a Price-to-Rent ratio. The ratio is widely used as an indicator of the underlying value, generated from rental income, of real estate assets. The ratio helps in identifying when house prices deviate from their average, or their fundamental value, indicating either a potential bubble or undervaluing of real estate.

With Q2 2007 taken as the base (equal to 1) the long run average of Dubai residential property is 1.23. This compares to the house price peak in Q2 2008/Q3 2008 when the ratio stood at 1.56 and the severe correction in Q1 2009 when the ratio declined to 1.11.

“In Q3 2010, the ratio stood at 1.31, 6.4 per cent higher than its long run average. It is envisaged that house prices may fall at a much larger rate than 6.4 per cent as further declines in rental values are expected, which will exert a larger downward press on prices,” said Albert.

On a global scale, the price to rent ratio provides a useful tool for comparison between markets. The Price-to-Rent ratio in the US is currently 1.021, 4 per cent higher, than its long run average of 0.99, despite the market fragility. In the UK, the PRR stands at 1.22, against its long run average of 0.94, indicating that house prices in the UK are 29 per cent overvalued.

In Hong Kong, where the real estate market is growing, the PRR ratio is 50 per cent higher than its long run average of 1.06.

In the UK and the US, where the rental markets are generally flat with minor fluctuations, house prices are expected to fall in line with the ratio. In a rising market, however, like Hong Kong, price falls are not expected in the short term, because Hong Kong and China as a whole are experiencing robust economic growth, with high demand for properties from investors.

“The indicators confirm the existing trend within the Dubai market. First we had the severe boom and bust of 2008/9 where the market was characterised by extreme price fluctuations. Then, after the severe correction, the market stabilised and now, it would appear, we are witnessing a slow but protracted decline in asset values,” Albert said.

“This reflects the reality on the ground as occupancy rates fall to 80 per cent and the market is unable to absorb the additional supply without a growth in the population or a slowdown in the release of stock.”

The global real estate consultancy expects around 33,000 units to be released onto the market by the end of 2010, down from its earlier estimate of 41,000 following project delays or rescheduling. However, given Dubai's history so far, a large number of these units may not be delivered on time and may cross over into 2011.

Colliers said that it viewed the return of Tamweel, one of the biggest lenders in the Dubai market, as a potentially positive sign, especially if the resumption of its lending activities boosts monetary supply and encourages buyers back into the market. “It remains, however, difficult to assess the degree of such improvement given the current muted performance of the market and unknown plan for Tamweel,” it added.

The index, compiled using actual mortgage transaction data from a consortium of financial institutions, showed transactions decreased by 4 per cent in Q3 2010 compared to Q2 2010.

As in the previous quarter, demand was driven by end-users and oriented towards established residential projects with completed infrastructure and facilities.

“The market conditions remain good for tenants who are benefiting from falling prices, and therefore rents, but painful for investors, who are seeing their potential income generation squeezed by the skewed demand-supply dynamic," said Albert.

*Key report findings:

- Decrease in the overall index of 6 per cent between Q2 2010 and Q3 2010

- YOY decrease of 6 per cent between Q3 2009 and Q3 2010

- Blended average rate for residential property in Q3 2010 is down from Dh1,014 per ft² (Dh10,915/m²) to Dh951 per ft² (Dh10,236/m²)

- Apartment prices decreased by 7 per cent in Q3 2010 compared to Q2 2010

- Villa prices decreased by 5 per cent in Q3 2010 compared to Q2 2010

- Townhouse prices decreased by 8 per cent in Q3 2010 compared to Q2 2010

- Apartments constituted 32 per cent of the total transactions

- Villas constituted 50 per cent of the total transactions

- The number of transactions decreased 4 per cent in Q3 2010 compared to Q2 2010*

http://www.emirates247.com/property...bai-fell-6-in-q3-colliers-2010-11-07-1.314386


----------



## i love dubai

What is the housing fee rate charged by DEWA if the owner lives in his apartment?


----------



## 234sale

5% of the estimated rent.. ^^


----------



## muffassa

i love dubai said:


> What is the housing fee rate charged by DEWA if the owner lives in his apartment?


housing fee is 0.5% of the contract value per annum for a owner
for the tenant is 5% of the rental agreement


----------



## Cayman

muffassa said:


> housing fee is 0.5% of the contract value per annum for a owner
> for the tenant is 5% of the rental agreement


Could you please elaborate the 'contract value' with regards to the owner?

Is it the sale value registered with Land Department?


----------



## muffassa

Cayman said:


> Could you please elaborate the 'contract value' with regards to the owner?
> 
> Is it the sale value registered with Land Department?


earlier when i checked it was the value on ur spa now may be they can ask for title deed and use that value.


----------



## i love dubai

DEWA is now refusing to connect service to owners claiming that many owners are not paying their bills. They want a copy of the visa which I don't have. I enter the UAE with no visa requirement.


----------



## 234sale

^^ Uh Oh..

Thats kind of crazy as the deposit system should protect them..

Maybe give them a copy of your entry Visa.. but this will be another issue for overseas landlords that want to hop in and out..


----------



## burntfingers

Hi everyone,
I have a Studio Apt in Lawns IV. Same as you guys. Have been strung along for last 3 years. However I have now received a demand for 3000AED for Interim Registration Fee. They have stated Lawns IV will start re-building now that all issues have been sorted. They state these registration charges are thr Buyers responsibility as quoted in the contract. I have checked and it does state in clause 6 (page 17 in my contract) that it is the Buyer who pays. BUT SHOULD I PAY AND IS IT 300 OR 3000 AED ?
They have also stated late payment will be charged at 12%
Can some-one please tell me what I should do?


----------



## AppleMac

i love dubai said:


> DEWA is now refusing to connect service to owners claiming that many owners are not paying their bills. They want a copy of the visa which I don't have. I enter the UAE with no visa requirement.


They used to accept the 30 day tourist visa stamp in your passport - are you saying they no longer accept that?


----------



## noir-dresses

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/visa/canadians-need-visas-to-enter-uae-from-january-2-1.708867

Just when I thought it couldn't get worse, I see this article in the newspaper. Thank's to Canadian politician's the UAE require's me to get a visa now to enter the country. I enjoyed the status of easy entry into the UAE for year's, now my passport is worthless in the UAE.

I ask my self do I really need a vacation home in Dubai after this, and the answer is no, not at all. It was bad enough with the 30 day visa.

With this move the UAE didn't punish the Canadian government, they only punished ordinary Canadian citizen's who like Dubai, and who invested in the country. Since Canadian's are the forth largest investor's in the country after the Emirati's, Indian's, English, and tied with the Iranian's it look's like a lot of us will not go threw the bull shit of getting a visa, and just simply sell our realestate in the UAE. 

We have one of the best passport's in the world, with more, or less no problem's going any where.

With this move Emirates Airline will see less business as well. 

The only hope I see in all of this is the UAE said it goes into effect January 2nd, 2011. Maybe there is still hope some kind of solution can be found by then. 

If Canada gave Emirates more slot's, I would of had more flight's to choose from, maybe even cheaper rates. Now I'm stuck with the same amount of three flight's a week, and a visa requirement to swallow.

Worse case scenerio is Canada will hit back in some kind of form, or another.

I'm starting to get a head ache.


----------



## noir-dresses

Visiting the United Arab Emirates in 2011? You’ll need a visa

Published On Mon Nov 08 2010

Amy Dempsey Staff Reporter The Toronto Star


Canadians travelling to the United Arab Emirates have been dragged into an ongoing dispute over commercial flight paths.

As of Jan. 2, all Canadians headed for the U.A.E. on business or pleasure will be required to apply for a visa, according to Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada.

The two have been quibbling over airport landing rights for months.

The first blow came when the Harper government resisted the Emirates’ demands for more service by its two state-owned airlines, Emirates and Etihad, into Toronto. Transport Canada has long said that the carriers’ six weekly flights are enough to serve the route.

Last month, the U.A.E. retaliated by kicking Canadian troops out of Camp Mirage.

Walid Hejazi, professor of international competitiveness at the University of Toronto’s Rotman School of Management, said the visa requirement is more than just an inconvenience for travellers — it also sends a signal “that the relationship between these two countries is not moving in a positive direction.

“This is terrible,” he added. “This hurts the competitive position of Canadian businesses. Businesses there are not going to be as open tomorrow as they were yesterday to Canadian companies.”

Camp Mirage, a military transportation hub near Dubai, is a critical logistics and supply point for Canada’s 2,750 troops in Afghanistan. Its loss complicates withdrawal plans for Canadian soldiers next year.

Security expert Alan Bell, president of Globe Risk International, said “Ottawa can’t do a thing” about the new visa requirements.

“We decided to play games with them. They pulled out a card and we didn’t like the card so we told them to rip the card up, and now we’re paying the consequences. That’s the way they do business.

“It’s a mess now.”

With files from The Canadian Press


----------



## Richard Head

noir-dresses said:


> Since Canadian's are the forth largest investor's in the country after the Emirati's, Indian's, English, and tied with the Iranian's


Where did you get this from? I've lived here 11 years and can count the number of Canadians i've met on one hand. Without a shadow of a doubt there are considerably more investors from Australia, NZ, USA, Pakistan, Russia, Germany, France, Sweden, Saudi, Kuwait, Jordan, Lebanon, etc. etc. I think you would struggle to make top 30.


----------



## gerald.d

^^ It's interesting to see that the Canadian press (or at least, the parts of the Canadian press that I most frequently see people linking to) on the whole seem to put the blame firmly on Canada for the breakdown in the relationship between the two countries.


----------



## noir-dresses

Richard Head said:


> Where did you get this from? I've lived here 11 years and can count the number of Canadians i've met on one hand. Without a shadow of a doubt there are considerably more investors from Australia, NZ, USA, Pakistan, Russia, Germany, France, Sweden, Saudi, Kuwait, Jordan, Lebanon, etc. etc. I think you would struggle to make top 30.


It was posted here on the forum a few week's ago. It was from some form of the Dubai government survey. It surprised me as well.

I will try, and find it.


----------



## noir-dresses

gerald.d said:


> ^^ It's interesting to see that the Canadian press (or at least, the parts of the Canadian press that I most frequently see people linking to) on the whole seem to put the blame firmly on Canada for the breakdown in the relationship between the two countries.


I will with out a doubt vote in Canada against the idiot's who put me in this situation just to see them out of office.

Could you imagine this happend to you, a visa requirement. :bash:


----------



## smussuw

noir-dresses said:


> With this move the UAE didn't punish the Canadian government, they only punished ordinary Canadian citizen's who like Dubai, and who invested in the country. Since Canadian's are the forth largest investor's in the country after the Emirati's, Indian's, English, and tied with the Iranian's it look's like a lot of us will not go threw the bull shit of getting a visa, and just simply sell our realestate in the UAE.


What about Emiratis being punished if they want to go to Canada. We come with a whole package, we spend mroe than anyone else, we are rich and you wont get any refugee problems from our side. Why do we need a visa to go there?

I say good for the UAE and I hope they do the same thing with other countries. There should be an equal mutual relationship based mutual interests.


----------



## noir-dresses

Thank's for the support Smus, I feel so much better now.


----------



## noir-dresses

I back tracked Richard, and couldn't find what I was looking for on the forum. This is what I found when I googled the key word's, and I was correct. 

Canada, and UAE need to find a solution to this mess.

Emirates 24-7, 02 November 2010

Emiratis lead overall, with UK citizens coming in second on the expat list

Indians top the list of expat real estate buyers in Dubai, having purchased properties worth Dh9.3 billion, 19 per cent to the total investment, in the first eight months of 2010, according to Reidin.com.

Total property investment during the period stands at Dh48.9bn. Britons comes in second with property purchases worth Dh5.6bn, 11.5 per cent of the total investment. Iranians and Canadians follow in with purchases of Dh4.4bn and Dh1.35bn, respectively.

Emiratis lead the overall list with investments of Dh10.2bn, which is 20.8 per cent of the total investment. Pakistanis have invested Dh3.2bn, followed by Saudi at Dh964 million.

Egyptians and Chinese have bought properties worth Dh530m and Dh588m, respectively.

Lebanese have invested about Dh660m, while French purchases have touched Dh550m.

Reidin.com's exclusive partner and primary data source for the information service in the emerging markets is Real Estate Regulatory Agency and Dubai Land Department.

Last month, Mohammed Sultan Thani, Assistant Director-General of Land Department told this website that about 30,615 sale transactions have been registered with the department until end of August.

The total number of sales transactions registered in 2009 was nearly 43,000, while 2008 saw only 31,613 transactions.

The department has been registering 30 to 35 transactions every day with the maximum transaction being recorded in affordable communities such as Discovery Gardens and International City.

Parag Deulgaonkar

© Emirates 24|7 2010


----------



## smussuw

noir-dresses said:


> Thank's for the support Smus, I feel so much better now.


lol.... Well, sorry noir, but we suffer too hno:


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

smussuw said:


> What about Emiratis being punished if they want to go to Canada. We come with a whole package, we spend mroe than anyone else, we are rich and you wont get any refugee problems from our side. Why do we need a visa to go there?
> 
> I say good for the UAE and I hope they do the same thing with other countries. There should be an equal mutual relationship based mutual interests.


Smus is completely missing the point. UAE/Dubai needs foreign visitors/investment. This ludacris decision by the UAE goverment surely will drag down property values even further. I symphasize with you Noir D.


----------



## sgn7200

burntfingers said:


> Hi everyone,
> I have a Studio Apt in Lawns IV. Same as you guys. Have been strung along for last 3 years. However I have now received a demand for 3000AED for Interim Registration Fee. They have stated Lawns IV will start re-building now that all issues have been sorted. They state these registration charges are thr Buyers responsibility as quoted in the contract. I have checked and it does state in clause 6 (page 17 in my contract) that it is the Buyer who pays. BUT SHOULD I PAY AND IS IT 300 OR 3000 AED ?
> They have also stated late payment will be charged at 12%
> Can some-one please tell me what I should do?


This developer is notorious in extracting monies from investors. Their credit control department is very aggressive and their record of delivering projects is dismal. They have 5 projects i.e. Lawns I - V in Jumeirah Village and they are all heaps of sand. Other developers are facing similar problems but many of them are getting on with the job and quite a lot of them e.g. Damac are in fact delivering in Jumeirah Village. If you look at Oqood thread, charge is only AED295 and that too is payable by the developer. My view is to print RERA document and send it to the developer and ask him to supply you better evidence he has in his possession. You pay AED3000 and you can say good bye to your good money. With regard to threat of 12% interest, you can ask him to work out your loss on account of loss of rent on your apartment which should have been delivered by now and is still a heap of sand.


----------



## speculator

smussuw said:


> What about Emiratis being punished if they want to go to Canada. We come with a whole package, we spend mroe than anyone else, we are rich and you wont get any refugee problems from our side. Why do we need a visa to go there?
> 
> I say good for the UAE and I hope they do the same thing with other countries. There should be an equal mutual relationship based mutual interests.


No No wrong. The UAE need people for its survival.
AND they pretty much duped people to come to Dubai on the property ownership residency crap.


----------



## smussuw

^^ We have plenty of people and many more are coming.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ I did not know you are expecting a baby?


----------



## sgn7200

ummbutti said:


> *Updates for LAWNS II* : I have received an email from Dheeraj's Customer care section stating that they have completed the shoring and excavation works at the site and currently they are awaiting certain approvals from relevant authtorities to commence construction at site.


Hello Ummbutti! Can you do us a favour and ask DEC if they have received "certain approvals from relevant authorities" and when are they expecting the construction would start. Many thanks.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Why is there so much cuffuffle about visas...the UAE were promoting this with all sales...now they stop providing it...doesn't make sense!

How is this going to help anyone including every single Dubian!



speculator said:


> No No wrong. The UAE need people for its survival.
> AND they pretty much duped people to come to Dubai on the property ownership residency crap.



^^^^
Agree with the above comment! "survival" is the key word and so is "duped"!


----------



## dubaiprojects

*Interesting compilation of views*

http://www.thefirstgroup.com/contact/helicopter.php


----------



## Hanna

*Visa lies and all the smoke and mirrors*

Hi All


There is a famous saying what goes round comes around !

If the Dubai leaders didn't lie through their teeth all the time maybe
the wouldn't be in the sorry state they are in.They have to run for 
help to the neighboring state next door for hand-outs because the 
debacle they have lorded over for years.Do you think new investors
and potential home owners will flood back (I don't think so) all you 
have to do now is google 'dubai changes visa laws for expats' !
and they will give the country a miss.

This will suit the SMUSS right enough, his or her opinion is they don't
need no one. 



:cheers:


----------



## TerryPop

is this bad?

Dubai Group misses two loan repayments


----------



## Beppe786

Wait untill Dec 10, it should be around $1.70, im waiting untill then as i have a payment due..


----------



## sidxb

Hanna said:


> Hi All
> 
> 
> There is a famous saying what goes round comes around !
> 
> If the Dubai leaders didn't lie through their teeth all the time maybe
> the wouldn't be in the sorry state they are in.They have to run for
> help to the neighboring state next door for hand-outs because the
> debacle they have lorded over for years.Do you think new investors
> and potential home owners will flood back (I don't think so) all you
> have to do now is google 'dubai changes visa laws for expats' !
> and they will give the country a miss.
> 
> This will suit the SMUSS right enough, his or her opinion is they don't
> need no one.
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:


ahem ... I think you need lot of perspective of the complete situation. 

It is not 'Dubai changes visa laws' but UAE changing VISA laws mainly enforced by Abudhabi. 
Dubai went to neighboring emirate which is again part of UAE and several developers there backtracked from there promise of residency visa as well.

Although I am totally against the removal of residency visa but did not see how 'what goes around comes around' fits into it ???

Or in other words you are implying that if Dubai would not have promised residency visas in first place ... they would not have faced recession ?


----------



## Hanna

*Visa Issues*

Hi


I am implying if the bogus promise of Home buyers visa's were not
legal from the beginning why con the overseas clients.The government should have told the developers stop this nonsense and false promises,but you see the Dubai government were in on the deal from the beginning.
Do you think all the states didn't talk about these things before hand are
they all incompetents ! they new what was going on, now look the mess.

This is why I say what goes around comes around they are paying for 
their treachery. 

:cheers:


P.S 

The recession came at the worst possible time,they were luring the clients from 
overseas by the thousands to their grand ponsi scheme and the collapse hit them
big time.Now they don't know what to do to attract the clients back.












sidxb said:


> ahem ... I think you need lot of perspective of the complete situation.
> 
> It is not 'Dubai changes visa laws' but UAE changing VISA laws mainly enforced by Abudhabi.
> Dubai went to neighboring emirate which is again part of UAE and several developers there backtracked from there promise of residency visa as well.
> 
> Although I am totally against the removal of residency visa but did not see how 'what goes around comes around' fits into it ???
> 
> Or in other words you are implying that if Dubai would not have promised residency visas in first place ... they would not have faced recession ?


----------



## Morrismarina

dubaiprojects said:


> I completely agree, however I wished that the special treatments should not have been given in the first place by UAE. hno:


So what were these special treatments then ??


----------



## smussuw

^^ exempt from visas


----------



## ragga

It still has greatness. There are countries/city states with far worse problems, but because of the excessive branding that Dubai tried to put out, we got targeted. Dubai still has all of its glitz and glamour, just a tad bit affordable now.


----------



## ragga

TerryPop said:


> is this bad?
> 
> Dubai Group misses two loan repayments


Conveniently right before the Eid Holidays. Hopefully the market absorbs the news before they open. Although, I think they are opening on Sunday. Lets wait and see. hno:


----------



## firoz bharmal

Dubai gratness will remain FOREVER .....why...
1.Burj al Arab
2.Burj Duabi
3.Palm Jumairah
4.Dubai Mall
5.Gold Market
6.Busiest Sea and Airport
7.Safety and secure , highend lifestyle that suits to all kind of countries and religion.
8.RTA
9...............


----------



## ragga

firoz bharmal said:


> Dubai gratness will remain FOREVER .....why...
> 1.Burj al Arab
> 2.Burj Duabi
> 3.Palm Jumairah
> 4.Dubai Mall
> 5.Gold Market
> 6.Busiest Sea and Airport
> 7.Safety and secure , highend lifestyle that suits to all kind of countries and religion.
> 8.RTA
> 9...............


There are many more reasons... anyhow...


----------



## 234sale

Will Dubai Return to Greatness? 

mergered into investment,, for the $$


----------



## Morrismarina

smussuw said:


> ^^ exempt from visas


The Britsh (and many other nationalities) have to obtain an entry visa valid for 30 days allocated on arrival, are you saying Canadians did not have to do this ?? :dunno:


----------



## Morrismarina

firoz bharmal said:


> Dubai gratness will remain FOREVER .....why...
> 1.Burj al Arab
> 2.Burj Duabi
> 3.Palm Jumairah
> 4.Dubai Mall
> 5.Gold Market
> 6.Busiest Sea and Airport
> 7.Safety and secure , highend lifestyle that suits to all kind of countries and religion.
> 8.RTA
> 9...............


With only 15% of the population permanent Dubai will be going nowhere.


----------



## smussuw

Morrismarina said:


> The Britsh (and many other nationalities) have to obtain an entry visa valid for 30 days allocated on arrival, are you saying Canadians did not have to do this ?? :dunno:


Visa on arrival, no visa ... same thing ....


----------



## rags

Interesting..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/12/chinese-hotel-construction-video_n_782622.html


----------



## AltinD

Hanna said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> I am implying if the bogus promise of Home buyers visa's were not
> legal from the beginning why con the overseas clients.The government should have told the developers stop this nonsense and false promises,but you see the Dubai government were in on the deal from the beginning.
> Do you think all the states didn't talk about these things before hand are
> they all incompetents ! they new what was going on, now look the mess.
> 
> This is why I say what goes around comes around they are paying for
> their treachery.
> 
> :cheers:
> 
> 
> P.S
> 
> The recession came at the worst possible time,they were luring the clients from
> overseas by the thousands to their grand ponsi scheme and the collapse hit them
> big time.Now they don't know what to do to attract the clients back.


The visa issue is not that simple as you make it sound. Much has changed geo-strategically in the reagion for the Federal Goverment to consider the promisse a breach of country's internal security.

Yeah, I'm talking about situation with Iran


----------



## rags

Two interesting pieces in today's FT
----------------------------------

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/81e7416e-f0e2-11df-bf4b-00144feab49a.html#axzz15TSNBFwa

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/319c6234-f100-11df-bf4b-00144feab49a.html#axzz15TSpMDKb


----------



## jagmp

Sorry to interrupt here.

My tenancy contract was for six months till the end of November.When i asked the tenant of his intentions he sent me the photocopy of the contract which had a discrepancy.It states 

period of tenancy- six months

1/06/2010 to 31/12/2010

Clearly he was aware of the mistake.What stands true?the date or the term of the contract six month.He doesn't want to leave before 31st December and doesn't want to pay either.

What can be done as i am not in Dubai.


----------



## Pleth

Jagmp;
I don't think you can do anything. You made a mistake and you are paying for it.
You have to look at it from the bright side, it was good you did not get the year wrong.


----------



## jeetha

Was that contract done through an agency?


----------



## dubaiprojects

jeetha said:


> Was that contract done through an agency?


I doubt it. I use a local agent and I am quite satisfied with their services.


----------



## Property Queen

SUR said:


> What does that mean ?!!
> 
> I think most Wind investors are quite aware that Dr Azizi has ran away with the money and is no longer running the show (contact JBA for further info). With any luck he will be caught and brought to justice. Those who gave him money for registration (oquood stuff) should have listened to the moderator who was 100% right in what he said that the investors did not have to pay this. Basically he scammed the gullible one last time before he ran off! I seriously hope noone is paying any further demands for money from Dr Azizi and Wind.


What you say sound plausible as Wind have no shame. But where is the evidence for what you write.hno:


----------



## rags

You always get such dishonourable characters now and then. It is not worth litigating given that it is just a month. Thank heavens that the year was not mentioned as 2011.

BTW, I am sure you are getting rid of him end-Dec and not extending the tenancy with him even if he asks for it.

Cheers.


----------



## jagmp

^^

Thanks all.

Yes i have no choice but to let him stay.Of course i am not extending the contract.He wants to continue at much lower rent.

I am thinking of keeping it vacant.Too much wear and tear for the meagre rent.Its not worth it.


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/postcards-from-a-property-slump
Postcards from a property slump

DUBAI // As an amateur photographer and property investor, Imre Solt found himself visiting construction sites throughout Dubai to document the progress of the rising skyline of Dubai on a daily basis. Now he is lucky to find a significant change at a project once a month. "Sometimes I don't take any photos at all because there is no progress," says the Hungarian-born Mr Solt, who has captured the city's growth in what he estimates are 100,000 pictures taken from the tops of tall buildings, helicopters and even a biplane. "There are a few buildings that have made very good progress, but I think more projects are on hold than before. Sometimes, there are just a few workers there."

The numbers bear him out. More than a fifth of construction projects in Dubai have been put on hold or cancelled in the past year, with the remainder severely delayed, said Proleads, a construction information provider. Proleads also estimates that the number of construction workers in Dubai has declined 45 per cent from the peak of the property boom in 2008 to last month, a further sign of the city's post-boom state.


----------



## True Blue

jagmp said:


> Sorry to interrupt here.
> 
> My tenancy contract was for six months till the end of November.When i asked the tenant of his intentions he sent me the photocopy of the contract which had a discrepancy.It states
> 
> period of tenancy- six months
> 
> 1/06/2010 to 31/12/2010
> 
> Clearly he was aware of the mistake.What stands true?the date or the term of the contract six month.He doesn't want to leave before 31st December and doesn't want to pay either.
> 
> What can be done as i am not in Dubai.


Tell the tenant that he still owes you for the extra month. The rent council will determine the amount of rent based on how much is shown for the 6monthly tenancy. The contract provides for 7 months and therefore the amount must be pro rata. The rental tribunal will calculate the amount due in this manner, I know as that is what they did with me.

In my case the tenancy was for 1 year at 130k. I had agreed to a lower daily rate for the tenant to over run the contract for a further month to allow him time to find a cheaper alternative and move out. I didn't return his deposit as I had repairs which exceeded the cost of the deposit. He took me to the rent tribunal but I couldn't justify the expense of flying over to defend the case. The tribunal upheld his complaint HOWEVER they ordered him to pay me the full pro rata monthly rate for the extra time spent in the apartment, result. He only got half his deposit back after 6 months and attending 3 hearings without me. Hell mend him!

So without even being there the tribunal automatically prorata the rent by dividing the amount on the agreement by the period of the tenancy, not the actual dates given. Tell him you want paid prorata as per the tenancy agreement, if not you will open a rental committee case against him at the Dubai Municipality and all costs will be bourne by him. Might scare him into paying up.


----------



## Qpointowner

*2 solutions on all Forums*

Gents, As per Page 7 of the contract clause 5.7: end of December 2010 is the last deadline for handover (after the 12 month grace period) afterwards we are entitled for a full refund of our payments without interest (not a big deal given market conditions) as the contract will be VOID and we do not have to continue any payments... I have a Tamweel mortgage not sure what would be the case for me....any thoughts


----------



## Qpointowner

Guys, Has anyone bought in Qpoint from the secondary market i.e did not buy from mazaya initially when the project was launched but rather from an owner thru a broker?

If so I heard that Tamweel has been sending out letters giving the option to opt out of the whole thing and forfeit your downpayment


----------



## liwanowner

I've bought my unit from Mazaya directly (not the secondary market) and have not used the services of any mortgage company. If they are willing to make a full refund, I would be more than happy to take it. If not, I will ask the property lawyer that I have nearly zeroed in on to have a word with them. My recommendation to anyone reading this is to be very firm about with the company because to me they have so far not seemed very serious about answering their investors.


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

True Blue said:


> Tell the tenant that he still owes you for the extra month. The rent council will determine the amount of rent based on how much is shown for the 6monthly tenancy. The contract provides for 7 months and therefore the amount must be pro rata. The rental tribunal will calculate the amount due in this manner, I know as that is what they did with me.
> 
> In my case the tenancy was for 1 year at 130k. I had agreed to a lower daily rate for the tenant to over run the contract for a further month to allow him time to find a cheaper alternative and move out. I didn't return his deposit as I had repairs which exceeded the cost of the deposit. He took me to the rent tribunal but I couldn't justify the expense of flying over to defend the case. The tribunal upheld his complaint HOWEVER they ordered him to pay me the full pro rata monthly rate for the extra time spent in the apartment, result. He only got half his deposit back after 6 months and attending 3 hearings without me. Hell mend him!
> 
> So without even being there the tribunal automatically prorata the rent by dividing the amount on the agreement by the period of the tenancy, not the actual dates given. Tell him you want paid prorata as per the tenancy agreement, if not you will open a rental committee case against him at the Dubai Municipality and all costs will be bourne by him. Might scare him into paying up.


TB, was your tennacy contract registered with RERA at the time your tennant filed the complaint ? I understand if the landlord has to register the contract with RERA....?


----------



## 234sale

jagmp said:


> ^^
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Yes i have no choice but to let him stay.Of course i am not extending the contract.He wants to continue at much lower rent.
> 
> I am thinking of keeping it vacant.Too much wear and tear for the meagre rent.Its not worth it.


I know someone who did that back in sep 2008 as rents started to fall, he was renting 35,000 sqft retail unit. He wanted 185 AED sqft,, 

In sep 2009 he decided to still keep it empty but as 120 AED sqft asking price,, 

This september he was asking for 65 AED sqft, but still no takers..


The super high rents of 2008 are gone, look back at the history of renting in Dubai, 1000 sqft, 2bed on SHZ road used to be 45K back in 2003/4,, At the peak they wanted 145K,, these are now back at 75K, with the possibility of further reductions.


----------



## True Blue

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> TB, was your tennacy contract registered with RERA at the time your tennant filed the complaint ? I understand if the landlord has to register the contract with RERA....?


The ejari system was not in place at that time so it was not registered. They are now telling everyone to register the tenancies or they will not enter into resolving disputes. This is to allow them to get an accurate data bank of the market.

I looked at the ejari system and you need to get a rera licence by attending a course in order to register your tenancy. This is only realy practical if you are a landlord with multiple units otherwise you need to use an agent and get them to complete the process.


----------



## Qpointowner

Liwanowner:

Mazaya will never do that - I tried it myself.
The big problem is that even if the complete the buildings in mid 2011 the infrastructure in addition to the services (AC/ water...etc) will be delayed much further.

One option that my lawyer told me is that the contract will be un valid come december of this year thus it will be automatically terminated (Page 7, last clause) thus you will be able to sue them and get ur money back of course the headache here is the fact that you will have to go to court and when u get paid back it will be without interest.

The other option is to stick with the property for say 5-6 yrs and see what happens...


----------



## jagmp

TB Thanks for your advice.It has worked like a magic.

Name of the rent committee has scared him off.He is ready to leave by end of this month.

Thanks again.


----------



## cazfoster72

I was at site a week ago (maybe 2), and am very surprised at how much work they have done since the photos Amplesou took on oct 13th. It looks completely differrent with the casting around the outside of the building complete and what is going on in the centre is moving along well. (i dont know construction, but I do know if things have moved forward, this is a definite move forward)


----------



## True Blue

^^Knowledge is power!


----------



## TerryPop

http://www.thenational.ae/business/...er-of-the-world-finds-construction-hard-going

Another sucker?

The trick is always to lure you in, get you nicely settled and then start the slow and steady "skimming". At first a few fees here and there you probably don't even notice.

Its an age old trick and one that thrives in many countries luring foriegners in.


This guy building out on the world has found out the hard way..... there is even a monopoly on the company he can use to transport equipment to the world island for construction... a mere 16000 dollars a trip.

Each trip to the islands is also a major undertaking, Mr Kleindienst said. It cost Dh60,000 (US$16,336) just to get a vibro-compaction machine to the site. Nakheel has signed an exclusive deal with Penguin Marine Boat Services for construction transport to and from the islands.



On a smaller scale my mate decided to fit out an office in JLT. The amount of people who suddenly stood up and put their hand out for a fee meant no less than 50% of his costs were random charges for stamped bits of paper.

And yes, you could only use certain companies so no negotiating on fire systems for example.


Is this guy being taken for a swim or what?


----------



## liwanowner

Qpointowner, I'd rather get the money back, without interest. Considering that the property is now worth much lower than what we paid for (I started investing in it when it was launched in 2007), I'd rather take the money I've paid them thus far and use it to buy something that's ready. If the contract will automatically be terminated, why would I need to go to court? Shouldn't I just be given the option to taking the money back, especially because its not mortgaged? Waiting 5-6 years to try to make this profitable is not an option because in Dubai anything could happen in that time.

P.S. Can you please send me the contact details of your Property Lawyer, through Personal Message if possible?


----------



## glover

234sale, do you know which law/regulation in Dubai/UAE that mandates this. Much appreciated.

*"Any developer shall instruct your client 30days after the event for it to be valid.. Then they also could be investigiated to prove this in the court,, which they usually realise is impossible."*





234sale said:


> Force Majeure,, great if the developer can prove it, none could so far could...
> 
> As I said, will update the legal positions when we have been through them...
> 
> Most developers tried to use this force majeure clause,, but when actually served with notice of action, realised they couldn't show an evidence showing force majeure,,
> 
> Any developer shall instruct your client 30days after the event for it to be valid.. Then they also could be investigiated to prove this in the court,, which they usually realise is impossible..
> 
> Legal challenges are the norm of today,, if you have the right contract, right laywer, non goverment developer. it's win win win Court of Arbitiaton is best for investors ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As to sub-genius,, Ivan Stang is my Guru, I am a fully paid up member..
> 
> Eternal salvation or tripple your money back..


----------



## 234sale

^^ The following represents a personal opinion, as with any action the outcome can vary..

* The 30days I was reffering to was specifics in a contract, though claiming an FM issue well after the event would likey fail IMO 


Force Majeure clauses comprise a very common contractual element, the essential purpose of which is to free both parties from liability or obligation when an extraordinary event or circumstance beyond the control of the parties occurs and prevent one or both parties from performing their obligations under the contract.

It is important to note that force majeure clauses are not designed to justify the negligence or recklessness of a party, or where the intervening event itself is specifically contemplated by the parties. Generally speaking, for a force majeure clause to operate, the performance of obligations should by physically or legally impossible and Article 287 of the CTC places the burden of proof on the party claiming a force majeure event.

Articles 273 and 287 of the Civil Code cover force majeure. Article 273 of the Civil Code states that if force majeure interrupts the performance of a contract such as to make it impossible for the contract to be performed, either wholly or in part, then the contract, or the relevant part of the contract, is extinguished or may be treated as suspended. Article 287 of the Civil Code states that if a party to a contract can demonstrate that the other party's loss arose out of an external cause in which he played no part such as a natural disaster, unavoidable accident, force majeure, act of a third party, or act of the person suffering loss, he shall not be bound to make good the loss in the absence of a legal provision or agreement to the contrary.

-

If you you do go to Court, it will be most likely request the Court to appoint an Expert to determine the construction progress on the project and formally advise the Court whether or not the Project will be completed by this date (in this regard such Expert would also speak to the contractors on site to determine whether the delay caused was due to any default by Developer or not). If the Expert’s report is against the Developer, the Court would likely rule that the SPA be terminated and the Purchaser’s monies paid be refunded plus interest.


Remember the property show on Dubai Eye starts at 12 today



As I said,, I'm not a lawyer so any advice I give is only based on a basic understanding.


----------



## glover

^^^^ i live in RAK. Can't pick up 103.8 signal. UPDATE: listening to it right now online. sent them a question also.


----------



## unknownpleasures

TerryPop said:


> http://www.thenational.ae/business/...er-of-the-world-finds-construction-hard-going
> 
> Another sucker?
> 
> The trick is always to lure you in, get you nicely settled and then start the slow and steady "skimming". At first a few fees here and there you probably don't even notice.
> 
> Its an age old trick and one that thrives in many countries luring foriegners in.
> 
> 
> This guy building out on the world has found out the hard way..... there is even a monopoly on the company he can use to transport equipment to the world island for construction... a mere 16000 dollars a trip.
> 
> Each trip to the islands is also a major undertaking, Mr Kleindienst said. It cost Dh60,000 (US$16,336) just to get a vibro-compaction machine to the site. Nakheel has signed an exclusive deal with Penguin Marine Boat Services for construction transport to and from the islands.
> 
> 
> 
> On a smaller scale my mate decided to fit out an office in JLT. The amount of people who suddenly stood up and put their hand out for a fee meant no less than 50% of his costs were random charges for stamped bits of paper.
> 
> And yes, you could only use certain companies so no negotiating on fire systems for example.
> 
> 
> Is this guy being taken for a swim or what?


^^^^^

The article is hilarious...the guy is looking out for earthquakes (wishful thinking) - if that happens at least he will have a legitimate excuse to use force majuere...but hey - isn't he foreseeing the problem...that means he knows there may be a problem - I don't think an earthquake is needed for the islands to eventually merge into one big mass! Isn't this predicted with the real world map!

To build now should cost peanuts...no one is interested in off plans....materials, equipment would be far less...what's he on about...this guy has lost his marbles, his story is full of holes! 

I think he knew very well the risks out there considering it was spelt out clearly that the world was in deep trouble...the World was already sinking into bad debt (look at Nakheel and friends - there are many cases wanting their monies returned) still you had this guy believing that he could resurrect it all making outlandish claims in the media (a while back) that he was there to build, build, build..he deserves everything he gets, the only problem here is whoever has invested thinking that all was still okay will get burnt as these false promises were continued to suck foreigners in.......what did he think he was going to achieve when the market is at it's lowest! His not the first German not to make it here...many more like him playing this game - the cube is another fine example of something going nowhere ..or as someone once put it "struggling" hno:hno:hno:hno:


----------



## unknownpleasures

234sale said:


> ^^ The following represents a personal opinion, as with any action the outcome can vary..
> 
> * The 30days I was reffering to was specifics in a contract, though claiming an FM issue well after the event would likey fail IMO
> 
> 
> Force Majeure clauses comprise a very common contractual element, the essential purpose of which is to free both parties from liability or obligation when an extraordinary event or circumstance beyond the control of the parties occurs and prevent one or both parties from performing their obligations under the contract.
> 
> It is important to note that force majeure clauses are not designed to justify the negligence or recklessness of a party, or where the intervening event itself is specifically contemplated by the parties. Generally speaking, for a force majeure clause to operate, the performance of obligations should by physically or legally impossible and Article 287 of the CTC places the burden of proof on the party claiming a force majeure event.
> 
> Articles 273 and 287 of the Civil Code cover force majeure. Article 273 of the Civil Code states that if force majeure interrupts the performance of a contract such as to make it impossible for the contract to be performed, either wholly or in part, then the contract, or the relevant part of the contract, is extinguished or may be treated as suspended. Article 287 of the Civil Code states that if a party to a contract can demonstrate that the other party's loss arose out of an external cause in which he played no part such as a natural disaster, unavoidable accident, force majeure, act of a third party, or act of the person suffering loss, he shall not be bound to make good the loss in the absence of a legal provision or agreement to the contrary.
> 
> -
> 
> If you you do go to Court, it will be most likely request the Court to appoint an Expert to determine the construction progress on the project and formally advise the Court whether or not the Project will be completed by this date (in this regard such Expert would also speak to the contractors on site to determine whether the delay caused was due to any default by Developer or not). If the Expert’s report is against the Developer, the Court would likely rule that the SPA be terminated and the Purchaser’s monies paid be refunded plus interest.
> 
> 
> Remember the property show on Dubai Eye starts at 12 today
> 
> 
> 
> As I said,, I'm not a lawyer so any advice I give is only based on a basic understanding.


^^
The problem here is that the majority of developers are claiming force majeure and making claims it was "out of their control" (which is something factored into the contract which then allows them to use any excuse possible as it relatively generalised to such a degree that anything will do and is acceptable) i.e. placing the blame onto a third party (i.e. the muncipality in some instances) making claims they didn't have the permit to build (but in reality they have no money or have never put monies into escrow)...

However they started the project well before (the majority purchased back in 2007 and after escrow was introduced) and in many instances construction had begun so how were they able to get away without a permit or approvals???...how is it possible for them to claim force majeure "after the fact" as you mention - after some work (or a lot of work in some instances) has already started, i.e. prime example excuses using force majueres after the fact - contractor no longer available..however they did have initially however in the meantime through unknown reasons the contractor left but they failed to provide info to the investor about this and kept quiet...how is that any fault of the investor...force majuere (when looking up it's definition) states that these should also be foreseen by the developer, those provided as examples above....the developer cannot continue to only provide excuses and get away with it as has been the case - force majuere is being overused and is not being used correctly.


----------



## ummbutti

*LAWN II - Oqood Registeration*

Hello All ,
At last I got the required reply.... :banana:
I communicated RERA,OQOOD and Dubai Land Departement.
The answer was given by Contract's Registration Office :

*Oqood Registration fees (Interim Registration with Dubai Land Department) is one thousand Dhs only by the Law*
So I communicated DEC to ask about the additional AED 2000, and here is their reply :

Further to your query regarding the AED 3,000 debit note, please find herewith the breakdown of the mentioned subject:

AED 1,000 – Oqood Registration Fee
AED 2,000 - Administration Fee

I have a unit in Dubai which was devloped by DAMAC, They asked for AED 1000 for OQOOD Registeration and AED 0 for Administration !!!!











hno:


----------



## spring999

I went to the site on Saturday.No any activities on all the site. 
Twin tower, only saw one worker. the way to it's site office are blocked.seems no one is there anymore.
waterfront, no one was on the site, progressing on ground floor.
park view, no one on the site, 6 floors.
golf green, 5 or 6 floors.
seems work resumed in waterfront, park view, and golf green. but no idea how many workers on site and how slow progressing.


----------



## amplesou

spring999 said:


> I went to the site on Saturday.No any activities on all the site.
> Twin tower, only saw one worker. the way to it's site office are blocked.seems no one is there anymore.
> waterfront, no one was on the site, progressing on ground floor.
> park view, no one on the site, 6 floors.
> golf green, 5 or 6 floors.
> seems work resumed in waterfront, park view, and golf green. but no idea how many workers on site and how slow progressing.


Does,nt look good for rufi at the moment,maybe after holidays we can get some more pics and update this next few days!
don,t forget saturday is a weekend there so there won,t be many workers on site in dsc!
did you get any pics ,if you can,t post then let me know !


----------



## True Blue

Interesting point about force majeure is that it effectively relieves BOTH parties from their obligations under the contract while a genuine force majeure event is in play. So an investor can not be asked for payents per the SPA schedule of payments if the contract has been affected by a force majeure event. Surely then the developer has shot himself in the foot if he invoices for payments then issues a fm notice for that same period when he was collecting money? 

I should have been a lawyer instead of a Civil Engineer.:lol:


----------



## unknownpleasures

^^^^

Oh but they have been asking for more funds around the traps (even when this relieves both parties) during this "force majuere event"! I'm sure I've come across many comments like that on many threads out there.

Definition of a genuine force majeure? In most cases here the force majeure clause is being relatively abused (nothing genuine about it)...it should only be referred to as an act of God in most cases, something that is genuinely beyond anyone's control, earthquake, flood.......However here you get everyone using the same excuses (it's everyone else's fault but the developer, the muncipality is to blame for not issueing the permits...who's responsibility is it to apply for it...it doesn't take 4 years to obtain one or does it?...every single developer with financial problems uses the same escuse...this "beyond our control" is a farce, simply being used and abused and the funny thing is they are able to continually get away with it without anyone in authority doing anything about it........the majority of people in the building trade would know of foreseeable events and should be prepared for these sorts of things (such as delays associated with building/obtaining necessary paperwork, that's part and parcel of construction but not in excess of some 4 years or more - the allowable period is 6 MONTHS otherwise it is getting too ridiculous - it's been one long extensive period of force majuere involved (cases stretching for 4 years or more)...how long do these force majeure's last - indefinitely?) ...instead all everyone gets is excuses instead of the law doing their job...where's RERA to appropriately act!

Simple logistics...no need for lawyers...total waste of time! Simply, ordinary people do not get justice ...you have to be worth billions to get any or a criminal! The latter more like it!


----------



## 234sale

True Blue said:


> Interesting point about force majeure is that it effectively relieves BOTH parties from their obligations under the contract while a genuine force majeure event is in play.


Exactly,, :banana: So you have to pay the final installment until the market improves,, seems fair.


----------



## Qpointowner

Liwanowner:

Please take a look at the contract Page 7. It says that the contract will be terminated by the end of December 2010 if handover is not done by that date (this is inclusive of the 12 month grace period) unfortunately this is the case unless there is a "Force Majeure" which is what they are expected to use inorder not to give us our money back.... thats why we will most probably need to go to court...

I had discussed this issue with a lawyer about a year ago but currently I do not have one, one of my priorities now though is to find one in anticipation of this.

let me know if you do and consult one about this issue and whether he tells you the same as I was told a year ago.

Thx


----------



## luv2bebrown

anybody know when The Index is supposed to be handed over? Anybody know what the expected rent would be for 1 bedroom apartments there? Thanks.


----------



## 234sale

It's being handed over from multiplex at the moment, expect dec.

1000sqft,, probably strating 80K as nothing else round it is finished and many units available at one go.


http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...&is_basic_search_widget=1&keywords=skygardens
^^ Skygardens, DIFC 90k for a 1,800sqft 2 bed


----------



## Opus 2009

234sale said:


> It's being handed over from multiplex at the moment, expect dec.
> 
> 1000sqft,, probably strating 80K as nothing else round it is finished and many units available at one go.
> 
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...&is_basic_search_widget=1&keywords=skygardens
> ^^ Skygardens, DIFC 90k for a 1,800sqft 2 bed


What do you reckon a one bed at Limestone house would rent for? A bridge connects directly to the DIFC podium so that is a key advantage over the other buildings in the DIFC. Also the fact that the Ritz Carlton is opening next month is a plus.


----------



## Pleth

Does anybody know what became of RERA's secret list of the hundreds of developements they were going to cancel?? hno:

Unknownpleasures; I totally agree Force Majuere is being misused in UAE to the point of fraud. As one developer claims "the recession is force majuere"!


----------



## pisandre

spring999 said:


> I went to the site on Saturday.No any activities on all the site.
> Twin tower, only saw one worker. the way to it's site office are blocked.seems no one is there anymore.
> waterfront, no one was on the site, progressing on ground floor.
> park view, no one on the site, 6 floors.
> golf green, 5 or 6 floors.
> seems work resumed in waterfront, park view, and golf green. but no idea how many workers on site and how slow progressing.


Spring, did you finally move to another project? It is months I didn't get any update from Rufi after I rejected their ridiculous offers.


----------



## 234sale

Opus 2009 said:


> What do you reckon a one bed at Limestone house would rent for? A bridge connects directly to the DIFC podium so that is a key advantage over the other buildings in the DIFC. Also the fact that the Ritz Carlton is opening next month is a plus.


More as Ritz Carlton,Limestone House, maybe similar to the address mall hotel / just slightly more but downtown wins over DIFC at the moment. 

The top end in the market is still Emirates Towers, Followed by the Address Lake Hotel, then Burj Khalifa. Burj Khalifa still seems to be dropping as supply hasn't been taken up.

So Index and Limestone could be finished this year,, :banana:

But you think, in DIFC alone we have Rosewood Dubai, Park Towers and EFT finishing next year. Let alone another 6 or so towers on SHZ road..


----------



## True Blue

Morrismarina said:


> The neurons in your brain just don't interconnect properly do they ?? I said it was great news for TT investors not great news for me you big oaf !!
> 
> I'm no longer a TT investor as I sold my unit, but I'm never going to get you to believe me. But doesn't bother me, my money's back in the bank that's all that matters. I have friends who bought in TT, Dubai Steve being one of them. I am happy *for them*.
> 
> *Of course being a self centred boasting Jock who delights in other people's misery you're never going to understand any of this.* hno:


^^Still the guy with the worst judgement on this forum. As well as not being able to guess any of your own development's completions within a year, is it any wonder you can't judge my character or iterpret my opinions.

I would ask you to cite examples of me delighting in other people's misery, but like the last guy, I would probably be wasting my time.


----------



## GTR11

why anyone pay more when for example you bought for 500K AED now its worth 300K, why would you throw good money after bad money...?

the only way investors can restart this is if they pay more, so their 500K unit which is not worth 300 will actually cost 800K aed..... so 600K down the drain

best to just leave it as it is for now unless the authorites step in.. and we know how great rera is in protecing investors.... a 6 year old used condom would offer more protection than rera


----------



## 234sale

SUR said:


> What does that mean ?!!
> 
> Those who gave him money for registration (oquood stuff) should have listened to the moderator who was 100% right in what he said that the investors did not have to pay this.


Seriously would not recommend any real estate recovery plans, . Better to use a lawyer, that represents your personal interests. 

I did speak to investors before on the phone, will also suggest this email address suggested by AndyH http://www.skyscrapercity.com/member.php?u=254940

Joe Barrigan 
email: [email protected]

you need to get every investor contact details and form your owners assiosation.

You need to find out how many people want to stay onboard, Then plan what you can do next with proportional ownership to those who remain.


----------



## Hanna

*London businessman begs Queen to help save him from seven years in a Dubai jail*

Safi Qurashi's open letter from Dubai jail cell
Two years ago I shot to fame as the man who bought "Little Britain" in UAE. This is my story of how my Dubai dream became a nightmare. 

Safi, right, receiving an award for 'Trusted Real Estate Partner' from Sheikh Manea Bin Hasher Al Maktoum 8:00AM GMT 21 Nov 2010 
Dubai's property boom had just begun, when I set up a property business, Premier Real Estate Bureau LLC. 

We employed five staff and business went so well that within two years we were employing 100. Our name was trusted and our reputation was excellent. We won a business award from Sheikh Manea Al Maktoum - the first in Dubai. All the hard work paid off. We sent our kids to the best school in Dubai and had amazing holidays with our families. 

We specialised in beach front properties so when the island of Great Britain became available we snapped it up. We knew that the market was overheated and that a crash was inevitable, so we planned for that. When the Dubai markets did crash in 2009 we were still in a strong position and our business turnover was $1billion. 
My life took a dramatic turn on Friday 15th January 2010, when two plain clothed officers arrested me for bouncing a cheque and took me to CID headquarters. I was held for eight hours in a cell, handcuffed like a criminal. No phone calls. No lawyer. Then I was transferred to Jebel Ali police station. 
There I was kept handcuffed to a chair for another 8 hours. No-one spoke English. I was asked two questions: my name and whether I signed two cheques. When I answered yes, I was sent to Port Rashid jail at 4am. The prison was built to house 80 prisoners; there were over 200 people inside. There were only four showers and three toilets. People were sleeping on the floor and in the kitchen. At night it resembled a refugee camp. For the first few days I slept on a concrete floor. I had no access to lawyer or phones. When I saw the prosecutor he asked about a cheque to a Russian investor. I told him everything and asked about bail. He said no bail was allowed and he would see me two weeks after he spoke to the Russian. Just like that, two weeks in jail. Finally, on the fifth day, I was allowed to make a five minute call to my wife. She arrived next day with a solicitor who said don't worry, you will get bail in two or three days. These days were the most difficult. I was in the same clothes for a week, with no place to wash, no soap or shampoo. For a month I slept on the bare floor. Then the second shock. My solicitor turned out to be the defence lawyer in a (civil) case I had filed earlier against a friend of his. His offer to me was simple: drop all charges against my friend and I will help you. My lawyer and the prosecutor were college buddies and good friends. Suddenly the Dubai I knew - trustworthy, clean, crime free, non-corrupt - vanished. 
Then my wife suffered a miscarriage. That was a particularly difficult thing. Nights were lonely. Trying to suppress the anger and frustration was difficult. However, human nature and the sheer will to deal with problems makes you discover qualities you sometimes think you never had. I got a new lawyer who spent five minutes with me. When I said surely he needed input from me, he responded "this is not England, we do things our way". I didn't understand then, what he meant, but now I do. There were two hearings – each one a minute long. Two questions were asked and I was sentenced: a seven year jail term. I realized that the judge had neither read nor reviewed any of the evidence. He did not establish whether I actually broke the law. A cheque bounced. Nothing else was considered. I kept on thinking this is a modern country, it has laws, it depends on foreign citizens and investment, surely its legal system cannot be so backward? Surely they are not this unjust? 
I was three months in Port Rashid jail. By the time I left, more than 300 prisoners were being held in that tiny place. I was allowed three phone calls a week each lasting only three minutes. I had to, in these nine minutes, manage my business and my legal affairs, speak to my wife and worry about the wellbeing of her and my children. I had not spoken to my children for three months. The hardest thing was telling my mum, my brothers and my sister where I was. 
My wife visited every week but I couldn't bear my mum and children seeing me there. Sometimes you have to put the biggest stone on your heart and carry on with life. This is what I did. I spent my 41st birthday, my wife's 40th, my son's fourth birthday and my 20th wedding anniversary in jail. My children cried for days. They wrote me great letters of encouragement, although some days it was very hard to read them through all the tears that would flow. 
But my kids' faces remained strong in my eyes; what are they doing? How are they coping? How will they survive? On April 1 I was moved to the central prison - with murderers, rapists, armed robbers and drug dealers. These are not the people I belong with, I kept on thinking. But at least I had a place to sleep and it was clean. There were only six to a room and we had to share a bathroom. But it was better than sharing with 350. 
I hated the indignity of court: being handcuffed and strip-searched. All of your respect and dignity trodden over. Seeing your family in the court room, paraded in front of a full court room in prison uniform. The court of appeal was no better. Dubai boasts that it has a very fast judicial process. That's right. In a one hour court session a judge hears 30-40 cases. The same judge will hear a murder case, drug case, fraud, theft, drink and cheque case all in one hour and decide the outcome of each in only 90 seconds. There are lots of British and foreign nationals whose businesses and families are struggling. People should see it's dark side beneath the glitz and glamour. I was surrounded by businessmen whose dreams of Dubai were turned into a nightmare as they had been labeled criminals. 
My mum is my biggest worry. She is an old lady and suffered a heart attack in the Summer. I had to close my company and people lost their jobs. What took 6 years to build was destroyed in less than 6 months. You feel like screaming, shouting, crying – why will no one listen to me? Where is the British Government? There are over two hundred Brits in jail, most in the same situation. They all came to Dubai to start a new life, 99 percent never had any criminal record. Dubai has branded them criminals. Why is our government allowing this farce to happen? 

I hope and pray that someone out there hears our pleas. We are not criminals. All we want is justice. 


:cheers:


----------



## baba toto

baba toto said:


> I'm looking to buy a flat in Canal Residence, Dubai Sports City. Does anybody know if any have been bought recently and the current market rate? i.e. amount to pay not the advertised sales price...


Ok, let me rephrase this. Has any flat been bought in DSC at all, recently? Anyone know????


----------



## 234sale

Ask yourself what you would buy one for... even for 600AED sqft ?

Problem is,, who wants to buy?

You can get in Motor City next door for 600AED sqft... still tough at that price..


----------



## suspiria

^^Wonder how he got the letter out, that will be his last letter though


----------



## unknownpleasures

234sale said:


> Ask yourself what you would buy one for... even for 600AED sqft ?
> 
> Problem is,, who wants to buy?
> 
> You can get in Motor City next door for 600AED sqft... still tough at that price..


^^^^^^^^
Is this "off plan" or completed?


----------



## unknownpleasures

baba toto said:


> Ok, let me rephrase this. Has any flat been bought in DSC at all, recently? Anyone know????


^^^^

Is it "off plan" or completed - there could be a difference but assuming the location I don't think many are completed there.:cheers::cheers:


----------



## unknownpleasures

Hanna said:


> Safi Qurashi's open letter from Dubai jail cell
> Two years ago I shot to fame as the man who bought "Little Britain" in UAE. This is my story of how my Dubai dream became a nightmare.
> 
> Safi, right, receiving an award for 'Trusted Real Estate Partner' from Sheikh Manea Bin Hasher Al Maktoum 8:00AM GMT 21 Nov 2010
> Dubai's property boom had just begun, when I set up a property business, Premier Real Estate Bureau LLC.
> 
> We employed five staff and business went so well that within two years we were employing 100. Our name was trusted and our reputation was excellent. We won a business award from Sheikh Manea Al Maktoum - the first in Dubai. All the hard work paid off. We sent our kids to the best school in Dubai and had amazing holidays with our families.
> 
> We specialised in beach front properties so when the island of Great Britain became available we snapped it up. We knew that the market was overheated and that a crash was inevitable, so we planned for that. When the Dubai markets did crash in 2009 we were still in a strong position and our business turnover was $1billion.
> My life took a dramatic turn on Friday 15th January 2010, when two plain clothed officers arrested me for bouncing a cheque and took me to CID headquarters. I was held for eight hours in a cell, handcuffed like a criminal. No phone calls. No lawyer. Then I was transferred to Jebel Ali police station.
> There I was kept handcuffed to a chair for another 8 hours. No-one spoke English. I was asked two questions: my name and whether I signed two cheques. When I answered yes, I was sent to Port Rashid jail at 4am. The prison was built to house 80 prisoners; there were over 200 people inside. There were only four showers and three toilets. People were sleeping on the floor and in the kitchen. At night it resembled a refugee camp. For the first few days I slept on a concrete floor. I had no access to lawyer or phones. When I saw the prosecutor he asked about a cheque to a Russian investor. I told him everything and asked about bail. He said no bail was allowed and he would see me two weeks after he spoke to the Russian. Just like that, two weeks in jail. Finally, on the fifth day, I was allowed to make a five minute call to my wife. She arrived next day with a solicitor who said don't worry, you will get bail in two or three days. These days were the most difficult. I was in the same clothes for a week, with no place to wash, no soap or shampoo. For a month I slept on the bare floor. Then the second shock. My solicitor turned out to be the defence lawyer in a (civil) case I had filed earlier against a friend of his. His offer to me was simple: drop all charges against my friend and I will help you. My lawyer and the prosecutor were college buddies and good friends. Suddenly the Dubai I knew - trustworthy, clean, crime free, non-corrupt - vanished.
> Then my wife suffered a miscarriage. That was a particularly difficult thing. Nights were lonely. Trying to suppress the anger and frustration was difficult. However, human nature and the sheer will to deal with problems makes you discover qualities you sometimes think you never had. I got a new lawyer who spent five minutes with me. When I said surely he needed input from me, he responded "this is not England, we do things our way". I didn't understand then, what he meant, but now I do. There were two hearings – each one a minute long. Two questions were asked and I was sentenced: a seven year jail term. I realized that the judge had neither read nor reviewed any of the evidence. He did not establish whether I actually broke the law. A cheque bounced. Nothing else was considered. I kept on thinking this is a modern country, it has laws, it depends on foreign citizens and investment, surely its legal system cannot be so backward? Surely they are not this unjust?
> I was three months in Port Rashid jail. By the time I left, more than 300 prisoners were being held in that tiny place. I was allowed three phone calls a week each lasting only three minutes. I had to, in these nine minutes, manage my business and my legal affairs, speak to my wife and worry about the wellbeing of her and my children. I had not spoken to my children for three months. The hardest thing was telling my mum, my brothers and my sister where I was.
> My wife visited every week but I couldn't bear my mum and children seeing me there. Sometimes you have to put the biggest stone on your heart and carry on with life. This is what I did. I spent my 41st birthday, my wife's 40th, my son's fourth birthday and my 20th wedding anniversary in jail. My children cried for days. They wrote me great letters of encouragement, although some days it was very hard to read them through all the tears that would flow.
> But my kids' faces remained strong in my eyes; what are they doing? How are they coping? How will they survive? On April 1 I was moved to the central prison - with murderers, rapists, armed robbers and drug dealers. These are not the people I belong with, I kept on thinking. But at least I had a place to sleep and it was clean. There were only six to a room and we had to share a bathroom. But it was better than sharing with 350.
> I hated the indignity of court: being handcuffed and strip-searched. All of your respect and dignity trodden over. Seeing your family in the court room, paraded in front of a full court room in prison uniform. The court of appeal was no better. Dubai boasts that it has a very fast judicial process. That's right. In a one hour court session a judge hears 30-40 cases. The same judge will hear a murder case, drug case, fraud, theft, drink and cheque case all in one hour and decide the outcome of each in only 90 seconds. There are lots of British and foreign nationals whose businesses and families are struggling. People should see it's dark side beneath the glitz and glamour. I was surrounded by businessmen whose dreams of Dubai were turned into a nightmare as they had been labeled criminals.
> My mum is my biggest worry. She is an old lady and suffered a heart attack in the Summer. I had to close my company and people lost their jobs. What took 6 years to build was destroyed in less than 6 months. You feel like screaming, shouting, crying – why will no one listen to me? Where is the British Government? There are over two hundred Brits in jail, most in the same situation. They all came to Dubai to start a new life, 99 percent never had any criminal record. Dubai has branded them criminals. Why is our government allowing this farce to happen?
> 
> I hope and pray that someone out there hears our pleas. We are not criminals. All we want is justice.
> 
> 
> :cheers:


^^

How did he manage to get the letter out?


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...k-down-buildings-constructed-during-boom.html



Dubai built so much property during its boom years that it may have to start knocking some of it down again, a new report has warned.
n aerial view shows the marina area in the Gulf emirate of Dubai : Dubai may have to knock down buildings constructed during boom

Dubai's central belief, summed up frequently as 'build it and they will come', has served it well in the past, however the policy crashed badly in the financial crisis leaving a landscape of half-finished skyscrapers Photo: AFP/GETTY
Backdropped by Dubai's trademark skyscrapers, Muslim women arrive at the Grand Musalla mosque: Dubai may have to knock down buildings constructed during boom

Backdropped by Dubai's trademark skyscrapers, Muslim women arrive at the Grand Musalla mosque Photo: AFP/GETTY
By Richard Spencer in Dubai 1:06PM BST 20 Sep 2010

A glut of vacant office space is continuing to spiral, despite the economic crisis, thanks to the forests of new tower blocks started by developers as the boom reached it peak in 2007, researchers said.

With some "holes in the ground" awaiting further development already being filled in, further radical solutions to the problem are needed, said the authors, researching for the property firm Jones Lang LaSalle.

"The best prospect for reducing vacancies lies with initiatives to limit future supply and encourage the withdrawal of existing buildings from stock through conversion to non-office buildings or even demolition," the report concludes.


Dubai's central belief, summed up frequently as "build it and they will come", has served it well in the past. Critics queried its determination to build its ports in the 1960s but it has now become the biggest trading hub in the Middle East.

The policy crashed badly in the financial crisis, however, leaving a landscape of half-finished skyscrapers, empty artificial islands and property prices down by almost 50 per cent in six months.

There are some signs that the economy has stabilised, with prices for houses and flats bottoming out, The International Monetary Fund has signalled it is to revise its forecast of a 0.4 per cent decline in the city's output this year.

Graham Coutts, regional head of management services for Jones Lang LaSalle, said because projects begun before the crash were now being completed the amount of empty office space would continue to rise.

The report said that between the end of 2007 and the first half of 2010, the amount of office space available in the city grew by 140 per cent – more than double – to 48 million square feet. But the increase in the space occupied was only 70 per cent.

There were still new tenants moving in, but with 19 million square feet coming available this year, and more in 2011 and 2012, the vacancy rate would increase further, from 38 per cent now to over 50 per cent outside the central business district.

The vacancy rate in the City of London and the West End has never gone below 16 per cent, which it hit in the 1992 recession.

Mr Coutts said other developing major cities had experienced similar problems, such as Shanghai and Singapore. But in those cases, getting rid of excess capacity meant converting old, decrepit buildings to other uses or knocking them down. In Dubai's case the equivalent would be getting rid of, or mothballing, building sites where work had just started.

He said the advantage was that Dubai would be able to attract a flow of business looking for cheap rents. "In the last six to nine months we have seen a resurgence of interest in increasing their office space by both local and international businesses," he said.


----------



## unknownpleasures

wrong thread


----------



## Property Queen

DO NOT DO ANY OF THE ABOVE.

The cost of building both towers is $millions....it is both residential and commercial. The price of buying apartments has fallen as has the cost of renting out office space. There needs to be money, expertise, marketing costs etc. Wind have left those slow witted people who listened to First Timer/ BAD and the other dreamers in the shit....I am sorry for you.

Just spend your money and energy into putting pressure on the dubai authorities to do their job...not doing it yourself. Let them do their job and sort out this mess. They may have let you down so far but there is more chance they will do something to salvage Dubai's reputation than there is of all of you completing this project between you. Dubais if foreign; their are economic problems; the market is flat; so many obstacles to overcome...do not enter this quagmire. Let the professionals do it. Please!!


----------



## TerryPop

*Fixing the status quo*

I still think the government needs to come up with a combination of incentives to fix the real estate market here.

Affordability through mortgages that have lower interest rates and different options like 'interest only' products for one.

Combine that with better residency rules that create confidence and security, for the investor, and you could see some turn around.

With rental rates where they are I have worked out that even on the best mortgage rates currently available:

You would need to put a whopping 70 percent deposit down on a house to get the rent to cover the monthly annual payments. (this takes into account service charges also).

70% deposits really mean there is no point having a fucking mortgage market at all.


And that is based on todays low prices/values on a variety of Dubai property from Garden Homes on the Palm to 1 bed apartments in discovery gardens.

I can't see a way out of the shit until someone, somewhere calls the market as it is today, values property on newer lower levels, subsidises/controls mortgage rates to bring them down to reasonable levels, pulls their finger out and gets the residency issue sorted out fast, and takes control on the cost of property ownership- service charges etc etc.

Dubai is an obvious buy to let market with a constantly moving expat population and it could be very healthy.

I know people say the residency issue may *not* be the golden variable that will fix all our problems and I actually agree. On its own it will not be.

But combine better residency with a mortgage market that offers more and we could be away- why does no one make a move- I have a feeling there really is nothing being done at the top.

And if you are wondering why the market is so absolutely dead, it is because based on the above it is a totally cash market now- imagine what the state of other markets would be like if the only buyers out there were cash buyers- it would wipe out 90% of the population who have to use a mortgage.


----------



## unknownpleasures

The govt needs to fix a lot more than just residency visas...there are people who believed this place was a safe investment and only purchased one single unit only to find their monies have disappeared (no construction or anything happening as it would appear that the developer was re-selling or withholding sales for a brighter day back in 2007.....no rules or regulations or laws protect the investor. All are one sided.

This has been the problem in existence since RERA came into play. Toothless and useless.

The law is one sided and until the govt fixes this there will never be any further investor confidence.

If this is not fixed there will be no confidence in off plans. Something that should never have been portrayed as being safe considering that not just one has been completed but hundreds upon hundreds to date have only taken investors for a ride by the rubbish promoted in advertising as if they were completed in many instances yet nothing but "holes" exist.

Who pays upfront for anything and gets nothing? 

This is not the fault of any genuine investor.


----------



## TerryPop

^^

Yes I get that the market is divided into two camps with off-plan as one and completed as another but hear me out.

If the completed market was repaired- and started to function properly, then there is a chance off-plan would start to look viable again.

You understand that in the completed market, as it is today, the only people out there able to buy are those with cash?

Do you get the implications of this? It has restricted 90% of the potential customer base.

If they could restore the completed property market, there may be the slightest glimmer of hope for the off plan market, albeit sometime in the future.

Today the completed market is close to (if not below) cost of build in some developments..... that would not make any off plan project viable in any climate.


----------



## 234sale

Suggesting that new buildings will be knocked down shows little knowledge of this market, it's just applying a typical senario from another market to this one. Infact even the failed development will probably be left until something can be done with it, hence why we see so little truely cancelled.

Gerald and I met the author of that JLL report, young faced property professional. I can tell you, it was quickly retracted and apologies issued a few days later to local authorties. Yes it may of resolved the over supply issues, but it's definately not market psychology.

Infact what Dubai actually needs is the opposite,, more building, more projects, more people, this is what built it in the first place.

Example.. Today Emaar put some hoardings up for a new project in Downtown Khalifa, I also hear that they plan to self fund many new ( at least 8) new developments.

New Project for Downtown Khalifa
http://www.skyscraperlist.com/showthread.php?648-FOUNTAIN-VIEWS-57F-Mixed-*250M

Nobody is a true Guru for any market,, but some have a little inside knowledge.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Any idea when the retraction was put to print?

The reason for non cancellation is to safeguard the developer (it's a waiting game) as they have nothing to lose and the investor does...hoping that the investor will just walk away rather than fight back is the game as anything legal will cost more and many just cannot afford to lay out any further (they have mouths to feed)...force majeure comes into play...no need for cancellation - it's out there all the time the only excuse being used and accepted by authorities without providing any burden of proof!.

I agree, Dubai needs more people to buy however if there is no confidence left because of the mess created it won't happen.


----------



## 234sale

I'm suggesting you need to for your owners assiosation in advance, then make a plan with a developer to move forward.

If the tower was finished then you would have to for an OA as per the Strata Law, so best you get it done now so any decissions can made as a group.

As to professionals,, is their no such thing as a dubai property professional qualification.. It's just a question of having or working for a company with the correct trade license

Again, what ever your postion,, when this building is finished you need an OA, if you form one now as an interim OA, more autorities will listen to you.

People, who do you trust...


----------



## unknownpleasures

TerryPop said:


> ^^
> 
> Yes I get that the market is divided into two camps with off-plan as one and completed as another but hear me out.
> 
> If the completed market was repaired- and started to function properly, then there is a chance off-plan would start to look viable again.
> 
> You understand that in the completed market, as it is today, the only people out there able to buy are those with cash?
> 
> Do you get the implications of this? It has restricted 90% of the potential customer base.
> 
> If they could restore the completed property market, there may be the slightest glimmer of hope for the off plan market, albeit sometime in the future.
> 
> Today the completed market is close to (if not below) cost of build in some developments..... that would not make any off plan project viable in any climate.


^^^^
I hear you...Both need to improve otherwise Dubai is doomed.

There will always be people who can afford to buy in cash anywhere anytime but may not do so in Dubai.

Where are the laws to actually protect investors.

As the article suggests the guy who purchased little Britain knew there was a problem "a foreseeable event" something that all developers have to be covered for...they cannot make false claims (which has been the case) of it being a force majeure...lying and stealing is one thing that Dubai has laws against. People invested because of this safety however it seems that the ones who need protecting don't get it whilst others who have taken their funds are protected...doesn't compute in my books..

It is a lot easier to obtain a loan for a completed project rather than an uncompleted one in my opinion. Something tangible rather than something that doesn't exist is what a bank wants to see otherwise if the bank doesn't lend monies it only means that anyone wanting a loan is a bad risk and has no collaterol to back them up. That's my understanding of a mortgage or have I missed something?!


----------



## bizzybonita

*1,898 property cases resolved in Dubai*

Most cases related to consolidation and payment schedules

Published Tuesday, December 07, 2010

Land Department of Dubai has helped developers and buyers mutually resolve disputes in 1,898 cases from January 1. (FILE)
The legal section of the Land Department of Dubai has helped developers and buyers mutually resolve disputes in 1,898 cases from January 1, till October 31, 2010, Emirates 24/7 can reveal.

“The legal section has solved 1,898 cases and helped developers and buyers arrive at a mutual agreement,” Mohammed Sultan Thani, Assistant Director General, Land Department, said.

Most of the cases solved were related to consolidation of units, or offering extended payment schedules.

Thani said the department has been working diligently to help developers and buyers reach an amicable solution and not just resort to cancellations or dishonoring their commitments.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...y-cases-resolved-in-dubai-2010-12-07-1.326135


----------



## Qpointowner

Thanks Maxlol - Great article.

From what I am seeing is that any money we pay is like putting it in a big blackhole - with all sorts of obstacles of getting it back or getting any value for it - also getting solid info on things as the Force Majeure seems quite difficult as well.

*SO,* The question liwanowner asked earlier is a very relevant one:

-----"WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE DECIDE TO DEFAULT?"------

_we acknowledge that our chances of getting back what we paid are quite slim and we decide not to pay any further i.e sacrifice what we paid and bail out._

Will we be still hunted down and chased legally - or will they just take what we already paid and send us a few notices either directly or through the lands department and thats it!!!???


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

Rider said:


> Once handover from the developer has been completed, how would an individual go about trying to transfer ownership to his own Limited Company.
> 
> Would a lawyer be needed in Dubai or can the transfer be registered directly using the Oquood system?
> 
> Many thanks!


If you talking about a offshore Limited Company, try Sovereign in Dubai on 044486010, helped me with my LLC. You will end up having to pay the 2 % transfer cost to the Land Department irregardless though...


----------



## unknownpleasures

How bizarre, what's their secret contact details...truly this is amazing...anyone who has made contact with this dept must count themselves extremely fortunate...My understanding is they will not respond to complaints made by investors, these are specific instructions left by the lands dept..Large groups have tried in a collective effort as well as individuals thinking that someone would sort the problem out and no one has responded! RERA and the lands Dept...seems as though they are two peas in a pod!

I wonder if they know the meaning of customer service? Not many are getting it!

Sounds full of contradictions...Bin Ghailaita is making claims there will be more cancellations in 2011! When will they get the act together? Thani reporting this in the media on the same day but in complete contrast to Ghailaita! Do you think they know what time of day it is?


----------



## liwanowner

Just received a mail from Mazaya with both the new payment plan, which is indeed 20% ahead of the construction milestone, and also and a request to pay an additional 10% since the construction milestone has reached 50%. 

They sent with the email a bunch of attachments, 2 of which are in Arabic and of which one is from RERA giving their blessing to this absurd new payment plan. I have asked them to first give me a response on the breach of contract before I am asked to make a payment. Let's see what they say, though given their track record, they are likely to take at least a few days before sending any response.


----------



## Qpointowner

I would be very careful with this 10% payment; as per my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) would make you at 70% payment [20% above construction milestone] which is absurd!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MarkWass

unknownpleasures said:


> RERA had cancelled 115 projects at the planning stage, and “less than ten” projects that had commenced.


^^ Hmm.. I wonder what he meant by that? 115 real projects where investors had reserved and had paid real money towards, or 115 ‘other’ project concepts or ideas in that were never actually marketed, and had failed at the first step of the planning process?


----------



## 234sale

^^ likely,, or items like the lighthouse in DM, which stopped in 2006


----------



## liwanowner

Yes, you are correct....this payment would take the overall payment to 70%. It is absurd, but what else can be done?


----------



## Philippa C

True Blue said:


> Dubai and Abu Dhabi have put their investment into Tennis, Golf and Formula 1 amoungst others there is Horse Racing, Cricket and Rugby. These are events that recur yearly and will draw audiencies from around the world annualy. Possibly a sounder strategy.


There's the swimming too. There's a FINA event on in the new complex on Emirates Rd later this month and a bigger FINA event there next year.


----------



## Qpointowner

I would suggest the best thing to be done is notify them that they have passed the deadline for completion being December 2010, thus you will not be paying and use this to do one of 2 options:

1- If you want to *continue* with the project:
use this as at least a bargaining tool and try to get some sort of discount or a better payment scheme...etc., especially that they also cut out a large portion of the project.

2- If you want to *walk out *as per Maxlol case:
use this in order to try and get at least a partial refund either by negotiation or through legal means.
*But in no way pay them the 10% that easily.* money doesn't grow on trees!

By the way I just heard through a friend that you can file a complaint against them at the lands department and this again would give you leverage to walk out--which is my choice and is what I am planning to do.

Of course we still need to know what happens when you just walk out (Default) and if there were any legal implications so that we could make an informed decisiom

let me know how it goes.

best of luck


----------



## Pleth

MarkWass said:


> ^^ Hmm.. I wonder what he meant by that? 115 real projects where investors had reserved and had paid real money towards, or 115 ‘other’ project concepts or ideas in that were never actually marketed, and had failed at the first step of the planning process?


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/excl...ns-in-2011-rera-boss-bin-ghalaita-365976.html
RERA had cancelled 115 projects that existed only as architects’ drawings, but “less than ten” projects upon which construction had started.


----------



## liwanowner

Qpointowner, thanks - those are all good suggestions. 

I have already emailed them this afternoon informing them that I will not continue payment because there is a breach of contract and unless they address this, with some official sanction from RERA, they cannot expect any more payment from me. In some way, I am going ahead with option 1 as you have stated. I have the money to pay them, but I will not let them have it easily because they are not clarifying things for me and also because so much of the original plan for the project has now been axed. 

Option 2 is a difficult route for me to take personally. It carries too much risk, I would rather pay them everything in the vain hope that some day (1 year from now, 2 years from now, maybe even slightly more) I will be able to either rent it out for a steady flow of monthly cash OR sell it at slightly higher than what I bought it for. While there are no guarantees this will happen, there are upfront, no losses either, which is the case with a default (walk out, as you call it). I don't expect any easy or quick answers from the idiots at Mazaya, and if no progress is made in this situation, I will likely visit their offices next week.


----------



## Pleth

unknownpleasures said:


> Here we have it folks, to anyone interested as this was a hot topic of discussion not long ago...just goes to show RERA is not even close to transparency itself ...seems to me its all talk and no action - something not unusual with RERA - toothless as ever!! Does this guy happen to have a warped sense of humour...it's kind of wearing thin! Funny that...the link to website doesn't even work!
> 
> *http://www.arabianbusiness.com/excl...ansparency-rera-boss-bin-ghalaita-366071.html*
> 
> *No list of Dubai’s cancelled construction projects will be published*, Marwan bin Ghalaita, CEO of Dubai real estate watchdog RERA, has said.
> 
> Speaking exclusively to Arabian Business, the regulator said: *“Is it going to add something to the sector to show scrapped projects? Transparency, yes, but there is a certain type or limit for transparency."*
> 
> *He added: "Suppose for you, if you own a project in any building in Dubai that has been cancelled, you have a full right to know that.* And this is what I am doing, I am giving them access to that. If you go to *rpdubai.com*, you will see all of the projects approved by us. And you will see the status of the project today.”
> 
> Bin Ghalaita said that since the financial crisis dealt a severe blow to Dubai’s previously booming real estate sector, RERA had cancelled 115 projects at the planning stage, and “less than ten” projects that had commenced.
> 
> *asked if RERA was reluctant to publish a list of scrapped projects for fear it might affect investor confidence adversely, he said:*
> 
> *“I don’t see there is any added value for it yet. If I am giving all the investors the update about their investment, what is the value of a scrapped project list for the sector? Still nobody has convinced me what it is going to do. But you have the right to know if your project is cancelled or not.”*


I have never heard anything as crazy as this? 3 Month ago RERA would announce a list of cancelled projects.
Now we are talking next year?
And the list is secret, nobody must see it!
So how do you know if your apartment has been cancelled?
You don't, and this way Dubai gets to keep all the money in the Escrow accounts for quite a bit longer.

All investors around the world will have to travel to Dubai, line up at RERA for a few days and if you are lucky enough to talk to anybody there, you may have the right to ask if your apartment is cancelled or not.
hno:hno:

RERA will then whisper in your ear "scchhh don't tell anybody, but your apartment may be cancelled in two years time, and if you're lucky you can apply to get your money back around year 2020".


----------



## Qpointowner

Liwanowner: I appreciate the fact that our inputs into this forum have been much faster and can see that at least we are all thinking together on the best solution for each of us - also hope that we all share as much info so that all of our decisions are informed ones.

I also noted your point that if you Default you immediately take a loss (if I understood correctly??)

one last comment: I think in any correspondance with Mazaya you have to get some mediator party involved (Rera and/or the lands department) so that you would have a chance for anything, and thats what one broker told me.
I myself will Default as with Maxlol and file a complaint at the lands department against Mazaya for breach of contract, still not sure how the process works, but the point is that this would enable me to formally object to all the rubbish (delay of project/ partial cancellation of project...etc) that has been going on. In a formal and documented manner to a third party that is responsible for overlooking all of this.


----------



## Qpointowner

I am planning to go to Rera offices this coming Sunday to further investigate this and see what could be done with my 2 B/R apartment in Liwan Q-point.

will let u know...


----------



## liwanowner

Qpointowner, thanks for the update and the thoughts, and yes, I agree, the rapid inputs for all of us here is indeed helping to either formulate my thoughts more properly on the issue or getting a different, sometimes better perspective as well.

You are also correct in your understanding of why I find it riskier (at least in the short run) to default - I immediately lose out on a good portion of the money I have already put in. Granted, continuing to pay does not guarantee anything either, yet there remains a chance of consolation in the near future, if the developer keeps their word (legally they are obliged to do so) and Dubai continues to remain moderately competitive and appealing to people in the future as well.

Please let me know how your visit to RERA turns out. I hate to say this and sound narrow minded in the process, but being South Asian, most Government organizations in the UAE usually give me the cold shoulder (me and my wife had one such experience as recently as yesterday where we were shouted at for just approaching someone at a government hospital to ask for their maternity packages - literally told to go back to our countries and labelled by a certain ethnic term). Having lived here all my life I don't let these things get to me, but am well aware of the perception that my background usually creates in the minds of the indigenous population, therefore I doubt a RERA visit would yield much in my favour.

End of rant


----------



## Pleth

PS. It can only mean that there aren't any 115 cancelled projects. 
I have said it before; that Dubai does not want to (can't afford to) cancel anything - that the goverment does not want to part with the millions in the Escrow accounts. 
They cannot afford to cancel any projects. 
But now they can force "tourists" to the country who now will need to travel to Dubai, to RERA, to ask if their project is cancelled, because this is the only way to check this.
RERA does not answer e-mails nor telephone calls.

Then the so called tourist will travel home again, think it over, fly to Dubai again to engage a lawyer to take the case, only to loose the case. Dubai goverment is making app. average 70.000 Dirhams for each arbitration case they open. Big business.
And when the "tourist" find out that the Arbitration court is not worth a penny, then they will have to pay another 60.000 Dirhams to file a court case, this is the biggest income for Dubai goverment at the moment.
130.000 Dirhams from each betrayed investor x 30.000 hoax apartments ? = 3.900.000.000 Dirhams.
+ Huge incomes from so called Tourism.
Better business than oil I would say.

Dubai would be a so much better place without RERA...


----------



## Maxlol

liwanowner:

Mazaya backed by Rera is asking additional money upfront as you say without addressing the issue of their delay. It does not sound fair, does it? And you still have some hopes for the future in Mazaya who are clearly in breach of the contract.

I doubt they will answer your queries as they have not done with mine either. However, a little piece of advice and as also Qpointowner says, if you are still interested in getting your property use the money tool. Do not pay for the time being: you paid enough without having your apartment ready yet!!!

Just reading in Emirates 24-7 that DLD has set up a committee to mediate disputes between developer-buyers. Giving some thoughts.

Will keep you posted with my personal situation.


----------



## liwanowner

Maxlol, thanks for chipping in. I am taking Qpointowner's advice and have spoken at length with a Mazaya representative and also sent them a very detailed email asking 10 very specific questions. They have acknowledged receipt of the mail and have promised a response before end of week!

When speaking to the customer service rep, she alerted me to the fact that the new RERA approved payment plans also have a more specific delivery date (at least for my apartment) of July 4th 2011.

Abridged, my questions are as follows:

1 - How will Mazaya be compensating for this overlong delay and breach of contract?
2 - What guarantees are being given that the project will actually be delivered on the new date of 4th July 2011?
3 - What is the impact of NOT meeting this new target?
4 - What happens if a newer delivery date is announced mid next year (very likely given the track record of your development)?
5 - What stops you and RERA (who both seem to be working and making decisions for the benefit of each other, not your investors) from revising the payment plan yet again?
6 - What is the status on the infrastructure work of this project, including but not limited to Roads, Water, Electricity?
7 - In light of all of the above, what is the validity of the actual signed SPA which states that delivery of the project will be done, with a possibility of a 12 month maximum delay, in December 2010?
8 - Who is the master developer of this project? At the time of purchase it was Mizin but Mizin no longer exists.
9 - How am I being compensated as an investor for the Liwan community now being deprived of ancillary projects such as mosques, malls, schools etc.
10 - Finally, how am I being compensated for being a consistent investor who has always paid on time. Why should I continue to pay and not get a lawyer when you (and not me) have breached the contract.

The actual mail is far more detailed and a lot more harsher in tone, but I have provided only the salient points of my email for brevity and clearly told them I am not paying till I have precise/explicit responses that they agree to be accountable for.


----------



## Maxlol

liwanowner:

Same points/concerns raised by me in May and then in September to which I received no satisfactory replies.

Keep us posted.


----------



## liwanowner

Thanks, will do. Also, please let us know how things turn out at your end. I will update as soon as I hear anything from them.


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## SUR

BAD, the only person going to jail will be Dr Azizi and those closely associated with him. The net is closing in on your criminal activities and you know it which is why you sound more desperate on each post.


----------



## BlueBath

deleted.


Dear Admin,

It's BlueBath again. On 8th Dec'10, I received an warning letter related to KM GROUP management issues which i received by email. 

On 9th Dec'10 I got another correction & denial email from KM GROUP through different email ID. 

After receiving such contradictory emails from the higher management of KM GROUP, I immediately deleted this warning letter to avoid further confusion. I'm ready to pass both the emails for your consideration ( if needed ).

Sorry for any inconvenience caused by me. I have nothiing to do and no relation of that letter whatsoever.


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## liwanowner

Timely new comments from RERA in today's Arabian Business:

Personally, I believe RERA are playing Good cop, bad cop routine with us and don't believe a word of it.

*Direct Link:*
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/investors-should-use-force-majeure-withhold-payments-rera-366206.html



> *Investors should use force majeure to withhold payments – RERA
> *
> 
> Investors in construction projects in Dubai in which developers are blaming delays on force majeure (an act of God) should withhold payments for the same reason, Marwan bin Ghalaita, CEO of Dubai real estate watchdog RERA, has said.
> 
> He added Dubai’s real estate sector was a lawyers’ market.
> 
> Asked if recession could be considered a force majeure, Bin Ghalaita said: “If I am an investor I will say ‘I am not paying because of force majeure’. *I am not a judge. But my answer is: if I am an investor I will not pay because of force majeure. If they can use it, so can I. And this is my answer. If a developer can use it, why can’t I?”*
> 
> He added that investors in projects that had been delayed beyond delivery deadlines could seek legal redress in the courts for loss of income:
> 
> “If my construction is delayed, and it is beyond my delivery date, what should I do? You have a choice to ask for liquidity damage…. I am suffering because of the delay, because I bought this apartment to move in, and now I am paying rent. You can go to a court and ask for that, for compensation. Because this is a breach of the contract.
> 
> “Because the delivery date is there…. And people should seek proper legal advice from lawyers. It was a buying market, then a selling market, then an agents’ market, then I tell people there is a period in Dubai where it is a lawyers’ market. Where lawyers make a lot of money.”


----------



## Maxlol

liwanowner:

I agree with you and I consider the statements from Rera careless and baseless as we do not even have in our contract a clause authorizing us to delay payments on the basis of Force Majeure events.

However, you said that Rera has issued a new payment plan with a new completion date (July 2011) which implies to me that Mazaya has already been granted an extension of time, perhaps applying the famous Force Majeure clause. Am I right?

And if so, I wonder on what basis can Rera approve a new completion date on one side and authorizing the developer to ask for additional money on the other side.


----------



## Pleth

News today on the radio today:
Work visa's and residence visa's will be cut down from 3 to 2 years.
(= money machine that will give more jobs to Emiraties)

Larger companies will now have to employ 15% Emiraties.


----------



## julienemtzek

Hi All - I have an aparment in Q-Point as well. I actually stumbled upon this forum by mere coincedence; been reading thru and would like to share some views.

- I have been in touch thru emails with Mazaya for at least 2 month w/similar emails as the one drafted by Mr.Liwanowner all to nothing - they seem to be experts in passing the ball and giving responses which actually hold nothing solid or firm.

- Mr.Liwanowner. What happened to Mizin??, and who is the Master developer now?????

- I am aware of the new payment scheme, my concern is since I purchased my place this is the 2nd time the payment scheme has changed. How can they change it just like that without coming back to the investor; as if it was something internal between RERA and Mazaya forgetting that it is us that do the paying - FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE IS THIS CORRECT!!!

- from all that has been mentioned here on the Force Majeue. I think it needs further digging into as this may enable us to retrieve our money either amicably or through a trial :: Anyways if its valid :: THEN CONTRACT IS VOID IN 4 WEEKS FROM NOW.

JN


----------



## bizzybonita

*EXCLUSIVE: Homeowners’ charges “should be reduced” for poor service – RERA CEO bin Ghalaita*










Homeowners in Dubai who do not receive the benefits for which their service charges are supposed to entitle them should be entitled to pay less, Marwan bin Ghalaita, CEO of Dubai real estate watchdog RERA, has said.
Speaking to Arabian Business, he said: “They can discuss it with their owners’ association. Because it is like this: when I am paying something to be served, I should have the quality that they promised me. If they did not give it to me, that means they should reduce it from the amount I am paying. The ideas of owners’ associations and service charges should be transparent between all parties. Because it is a group of people living together in one structure.”
He added that developers who had handed over projects to investors should acquiesce to the demands of homeowners.
“RERA’s rules are not ignored by developers, they are enforced by RERA. But owners themselves should educate themselves more about the law. The law for owning property, law 27, is very clear for everybody. Once the building is completed, and the owners association has been formed and approved by RERA, service charges approved by RERA, the whole control of the building is in the hands of the owners association, not the developer.”

*He added that homeowners in these circumstances who felt developers were nor respecting the wishes of their respective owners’ association should call the police.
*


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/excl...oor-service-rera-ceo-bin-ghalaita-366300.html


----------



## bizzybonita

*EXCLUSIVE: Investors should use force majeure to withhold payments – RERA
*

Investors in construction projects in Dubai in which developers are blaming delays on force majeure (an act of God) should withhold payments for the same reason, Marwan bin Ghalaita, CEO of Dubai real estate watchdog RERA, has said.
He added Dubai’s real estate sector was a lawyers’ market.
Asked if recession could be considered a force majeure, Bin Ghalaita said: “If I am an investor I will say ‘I am not paying because of force majeure’. I am not a judge. But my answer is: if I am an investor I will not pay because of force majeure. If they can use it, so can I. And this is my answer. If a developer can use it, why can’t I?”
He added that investors in projects that had been delayed beyond delivery deadlines could seek legal redress in the courts for loss of income:

“If my construction is delayed, and it is beyond my delivery date, what should I do? You have a choice to ask for liquidity damage…. I am suffering because of the delay, because I bought this apartment to move in, and now I am paying rent. You can go to a court and ask for that, for compensation. Because this is a breach of the contract.
“Because the delivery date is there…. And people should seek proper legal advice from lawyers. It was a buying market, then a selling market, then an agents’ market, then I tell people there is a period in Dubai where it is a lawyers’ market. Where lawyers make a lot of money.”


----------



## bizzybonita

*EXCLUSIVE: RERA yet to prosecute a single developer – CEO bin Ghalaita
*










Dubai real estate watchdog RERA has not prosecuted a single developer, RERA CEO Marwan bin Ghalaita has told Arabian Business.
“We did fine some developers, but prosecuted, no. So far we did not prosecute anyone. We did impose fines. But if anybody be proving that someone is doing something wrong, I will not hesitate to send him to the prosecutor,” bin Ghalaita, who has been head of RERA for three years, said.
He added RERA had the ability to impose fines on developers found to be committing fraud, or falsifying statistics.
“What we are doing is, we are already by law giving penalties to a developer if they are late or if they don’t submit documents. About AED10,000. And I have a penalty up to AED500,000 I can impose on the developer. Half a million, and then I can make it a million, and then I can make it a million and a half. But this is all regulation penalty, if they don’t share information with me, if they do a fraud on an investor… If they play tricks with the progress report,” he said.


----------



## bizzybonita

*EXCLUSIVE: Two billion dirhams spent from Dubai escrow accounts – RERA boss Bin Ghalaita
*

Two billion dirhams ($545m) have gone from the escrow or trust accounts into which investors in Dubai’s real estate sector place their deposits, CEO of RERA, Dubai’s real estate watchdog, Marwan bin Ghalaita has said.
Speaking exclusively to Arabian Business, bin Ghalaita said: “When we started the escrow account [at the end of 2007], in the first few months I used to have AED7 billion in my escrow accounts. AED7 billion. Imagine how much I will have if it had started from the beginning [of the real estate boom]. I will be the wealthiest agency in the world, I think.”
He said that figure had now diminished to AED5 billion: “I have about five billion in the escrow accounts. Five billion…. Yes. And how this two billion has gone? For construction.”
Bin Ghalaita said that in Dubai until recently, developers had been able to tap escrow account funds to pay for costs related to construction.

“So you [the developer] open the escrow account, and you start launching the project. Once you launch the project, you take five percent as an initial deposit. All these five percents will go to the escrow account. So all peoples’ money will go to the escrow account. In the beginning, the rule was that it is ok to pay from this five percent [for] the remaining land payment. And to pay up to five percent for management, and marketing, and real estate agent and whatever.
“But since the crisis happened, we stopped all the payment except for contractor. So that is why you will see in Dubai a lot of developments are moving, because of the trust account money. But [now] we don’t give a developer [escrow account money for] a land payment, we don’t give him [escrow account money for] advertisement, we don’t give him [escrow account money] for agents, or admin fees, or marketing. Nothing. Only [for] contractors’ payments.”
An escrow account is generally accepted to be an account whereby an independent trusted third party receives and disburses money between two parties upon completion of a contractually agreed upon task. They were made mandatory for investors and developers in Dubai real estate at the end of 2007.


----------



## bizzybonita

*EXCLUSIVE: “There is a limit to transparency” – RERA boss Bin Ghalaita
*

No list of Dubai’s cancelled construction projects will be published, Marwan bin Ghalaita, CEO of Dubai real estate watchdog RERA, has said.
Speaking exclusively to Arabian Business, the regulator said: “Is it going to add something to the sector to show scrapped projects? Transparency, yes, but there is a certain type or limit for transparency."
He added: "Suppose for you, if you own a project in any building in Dubai that has been cancelled, you have a full right to know that. And this is what I am doing, I am giving them access to that. If you go to rpdubai.com, you will see all of the projects approved by us. And you will see the status of the project today.”
Bin Ghalaita said that since the financial crisis dealt a severe blow to Dubai’s previously booming real estate sector, RERA had cancelled 115 projects at the planning stage, and “less than ten” projects that had commenced.

Asked if RERA was reluctant to publish a list of scrapped projects for fear it might affect investor confidence adversely, he said:
“I don’t see there is any added value for it yet. If I am giving all the investors the update about their investment, what is the value of a scrapped project list for the sector? Still nobody has convinced me what it is going to do. But you have the right to know if your project is cancelled or not.”


----------



## Porcello

He's spoken a lot today... but still just words and no results. Anyone remembers the deadline for handover to owners associations? Not a single OA has achieved full legal status yet.


----------



## MarkWass

bizzybonita said:


> *EXCLUSIVE: Investors should use force majeure to withhold payments – RERA*
> 
> 
> Investors in construction projects in Dubai in which developers are blaming delays on force majeure (an act of God) should withhold payments for the same reason, Marwan bin Ghalaita, CEO of Dubai real estate watchdog RERA, has said.
> He added Dubai’s real estate sector was a lawyers’ market.
> Asked if recession could be considered a force majeure, Bin Ghalaita said: “If I am an investor I will say ‘I am not paying because of force majeure’. I am not a judge. But my answer is: if I am an investor I will not pay because of force majeure. If they can use it, so can I. And this is my answer. If a developer can use it, why can’t I?”
> He added that investors in projects that had been delayed beyond delivery deadlines could seek legal redress in the courts for loss of income:
> 
> “If my construction is delayed, and it is beyond my delivery date, what should I do? You have a choice to ask for liquidity damage…. I am suffering because of the delay, because I bought this apartment to move in, and now I am paying rent. You can go to a court and ask for that, for compensation. Because this is a breach of the contract.
> “Because the delivery date is there…. And people should seek proper legal advice from lawyers. It was a buying market, then a selling market, then an agents’ market, then I tell people there is a period in Dubai where it is a lawyers’ market. Where lawyers make a lot of money.”


^^:banana:^^


*This is top draw, top banana quality! Thanks Bizzy for copying this article here. I’ve also saved a copy this article that includes Marwan’s quotes to my PC for safekeeping as a precaut**ion, just in case A.B. and other media is told to remove it for whatever reason. *

*Whatever the (multitude of reasons given for) delay in different projects, non-performance etc, rather than wishfully saying ‘abracadabra’, given that developers seem to think that by simply adding the words ‘force majeure’ to their excuses, it will act as an impenetrable ‘get out of jail free’ card / barrier for themselves. *

*So it may be useful for investors like you and me to play them at their own game, future use at a future date for people to refer to Marwan’s words on the subject for our (investors and resident ‘home’ owners alike) own benefit, if necessary..*


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## unknownpleasures

bizzybonita said:


> *EXCLUSIVE: RERA yet to prosecute a single developer – CEO bin Ghalaita
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dubai real estate watchdog RERA has not prosecuted a single developer, RERA CEO Marwan bin Ghalaita has told Arabian Business.
> “We did fine some developers, but prosecuted, no. So far we did not prosecute anyone. We did impose fines. But if anybody be proving that someone is doing something wrong, I will not hesitate to send him to the prosecutor,” bin Ghalaita, who has been head of RERA for three years, said.
> He added RERA had the ability to impose fines on developers found to be committing fraud, or falsifying statistics.
> “What we are doing is, we are already by law giving penalties to a developer if they are late or if they don’t submit documents. About AED10,000. And I have a penalty up to AED500,000 I can impose on the developer. Half a million, and then I can make it a million, and then I can make it a million and a half. But this is all regulation penalty, if they don’t share information with me, if they do a fraud on an investor… If they play tricks with the progress report,” he said.


^^^^^^:lol::lol::lol::lol:
This says it all doesn't it!

Developers are laughing all the way to the bank - heavily backed by RERA!

Of course they can prosecute but they have chosen not to even when the developer has broken every law in the book!

Why isn't the CEO listening to the investor instead of turning a blind eye!

How convenient for CEO...he thinks all the money in ESCROW is his...

EXCLUSIVE *"Speaking exclusively to Arabian Business, bin Ghalaita said: “When we started the escrow account [at the end of 2007], in the first few months I used to have AED7 billion in my escrow accounts. AED7 billion. Imagine how much I will have if it had started from the beginning [of the real estate boom]. I will be the wealthiest agency in the world, I think.”
*
^^^^^^
Now we all know why he doesn't want to release any of it..."I will be the wealthiest agency in the world, I think". :lol::lol::lol: That's his logic! God save us all!


----------



## unknownpleasures

^^^
Simply where's the transparency RERA continually promised!

It certainly leaves people scratching their heads 

While RERA is left rubbing their hands with Escrow Money! 

One thing is missing here...how much wasn't put into Escrow...Any idea Bin Ghalaita? No, of course no mention is made...that would reveal the law was broken and it that would mean prosecution...Something that RERA has continually avoided to date!

*http://www.arabianbusiness.com/excl...w-accounts-rera-boss-bin-ghalaita-365834.html*

This guy is looking even more stupid every time he opens his mouth!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Pleth said:


> PS. It can only mean that there aren't any 115 cancelled projects.
> I have said it before; that Dubai does not want to (can't afford to) cancel anything - that the goverment does not want to part with the millions in the Escrow accounts.
> They cannot afford to cancel any projects.
> But now they can force "tourists" to the country who now will need to travel to Dubai, to RERA, to ask if their project is cancelled, because this is the only way to check this.
> RERA does not answer e-mails nor telephone calls.
> 
> Then the so called tourist will travel home again, think it over, fly to Dubai again to engage a lawyer to take the case, only to loose the case. Dubai goverment is making app. average 70.000 Dirhams for each arbitration case they open. Big business.
> And when the "tourist" find out that the Arbitration court is not worth a penny, then they will have to pay another 60.000 Dirhams to file a court case, this is the biggest income for Dubai goverment at the moment.
> 130.000 Dirhams from each betrayed investor x 30.000 hoax apartments ? = 3.900.000.000 Dirhams.
> + Huge incomes from so called Tourism.
> Better business than oil I would say.
> 
> Dubai would be a so much better place without RERA...


^^^^^^
Agree! nothing could be closer to the truth - the only ones cancelled would be the drawings...they can't cancell those started - it would show the biggest rip off of the century! It's all been about slowwwwwwwwwww progress which seems to protect the developers (Ghailaita is only fooling himself). Where do all the excuses actually come from RERA of course! Reason why developers are not concerned about investors! They have all the protection they need. Well I think people are really getting sick of the excuses...for once why doesn't he just do it right!

Ghailaita is on the nose as is RERA.

It's been statement after statement from Ghailaita without any substance!

When is he going to get serious and prosecute the developers who have taken people for a ride! We know he can, he admits he can, but he won't! hno:hno:


----------



## vaksa

True Blue said:


> Interesting point about force majeure is that it effectively relieves BOTH parties from their obligations under the contract while a genuine force majeure event is in play. So an investor can not be asked for payents per the SPA schedule of payments if the contract has been affected by a force majeure event.
> ...


///



bizzybonita said:


> ...
> Investors in construction projects in Dubai in which developers are blaming delays on force majeure (an act of God) should withhold payments for the same reason, Marwan bin Ghalaita, CEO of Dubai real estate watchdog RERA, has said.
> .....


----------



## Pleth

bizzybonita said:


> *EXCLUSIVE: Investors should use force majeure to withhold payments – RERA
> *
> He added that investors in projects that had been delayed beyond delivery deadlines could seek *legal *redress in the *courts* for loss of income:
> 
> “You can *go to a court *and ask for that, for compensation. Because this is a breach of the contract.
> “Because the delivery date is there…. And *people should seek proper legal advice from lawyers.* It was a buying market, then a selling market, then an agents’ market, then I tell people there is a period in Dubai where *it is a lawyers’ market.* Where *lawyers *make a lot of money.”


In other words this guy (who said mafiosa?) is sitting on all our money, will not return them to investors, cannot help, will not help, but asking us to seek legal help so that Dubai goverment can make a lot more money in court fee's.


----------



## Patsy

*deleted*



BlueBath said:


> deleted.


why was this post deleted ? the warning was true or not ?


----------



## BlueBath

Patsy said:


> why was this post deleted ? the warning was true or not ?






[email protected] emailed 
"TERMINATION declaration on 08th December'10".

[email protected] 
emailed "DENIAL declaration on 09th December'10".


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## Adam2008

Dear Liwan owners,
I have stopped paying after making the last payment 6 months ago. And will not pay one more penny unless i see my apartment ready to live in. I have visited Mazaya and clearly mentioned that i will not pay. they said they will send my file to rera and rera will contact me, but nothing happened yet. Rera will not cancel the contract without having a session in the presence of the owner and mazaya representative and rera will try to find a solution.
its a good way to buy time until we have something ready. also it will be a good chance to ask for a discount on our purchase price to cover the loss we encountered.
by 31 dec, mazaya will be in breach of contract and if they will hide behind the force majore we can use it to stop payment until they deliver what they promised.


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## liwanowner

Adam, you are far more daring than me. While I am still waiting for Mazaya to come back to me with the answers I am seeking, I fear going the route of defaulting will land me in legal troubles that will have me spending even more money to recover what I have already spent. I just don't trust anything that RERA says and am convinced the document we signed (SPA) is not worth the paper its printed on.


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## Sukhi

Dear QueuePointers, 

I also purchased a property in R047, and have been receiving legal notices for not paying my dues of additional 20% hike made by MAZAYA and RERA in August 2010. I asked them in September 2010 to give me time until december to make arrangements for the due amount, they agreed to my request. As of today i have paid 55% of the cost and they want me to pay the rest this month itself to bring my payment plan up to 70% against the 50% completion of the construction. I am one of those investors who did not take a loan.. Now i am having a tough time paying these huge increases suddenly in such a short period of time..

I also agree with liwanowner that in this country i do not want become a defaulter and land in legal troubles by stopping my payments as per MAZAYA and RERA Demands. But i am still eagerly awaiting their new email with the FORCE MAJEURE clause and the new extension of payment plan and delivery date to june 2011. I am now calling banks to get a personal loan just to make these payments. What do you guys advise i should do?

[email protected]


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## liwanowner

Sukhi, I think I can relate to you. Like you, I do did not take a loan from any bank, but have been saving my money to pay for the flat in the hope that I can somehow commercialize it as an investment. While I will not have to take any loans to pay the remainder amount (for now at least, but I have a growing family...), I find the new payment policy entirely unfair to people like us. I am fine with a few more months of delay (if it is indeed a few more months) but the new payment policy is a slap in the face - first a delay, then more money...which is quite ridiculous!

My advice to each and everyone is to pressurize Mazaya and disagree with the new payment plan. If they can come up with a payment plan to increase payments, they can also come up with one that decreases it as well! It is partly our fault for having agreed to the first hike, which probably made them think they could do it again. What worries me is the bullshit being churned out by RERA, who clearly are in bed with these developers. I trust them even less than I do Mazaya because they have nothing at stake and have zero accountability to anything.


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## poorBuyer

Dear All,

For a long time, I was a "READER" of this thread, now since people are acitive here, so I will also participate.

As my name suggests, I am a poor buyer of 2BR appartment in Liwan (R071). I signed the purchase contract through Tamweel many many years ago. As per my contract, I paid 10% down-payment. Next I have to pay (around 5%) at the time of receiving the keys. After that, 13.5 Years monthly payment plan. For me also, completion date in agreement was Dec 2009 and 1 year Grace period is ending in Dec 2010.

Till date, I have paid 10% only, but on my behalf Tamweel would have paid a lot of money to the builder. If I want to jump out from the contract (as Dec 2010 is approaching) then what would be my case?

1. Should I ask Tamweel to stop payments to Liwan as Liwan has breached the contract?

2. As per Islamic Shariyah (that bounds my contract with Tamweel), what are my rights if I don't get the keys as per the dates specified in the contract?

3. How can I close this chapter? Can I run-away with only 10% payment? In fact, now, what is the legal way of running away? I may sacrifice my 10% downpayment.

4. I have provided un-dated security checks to Tamweel. How can I make sure that those checks would not be sent to my bank, once Mazaya completes the project?


BTW, are there other people around, who purchansed the appartment financed by Tamweel?

I am IN for any gathering of Liwan-buyers. I am in Dubai and can come to any place in UAE for this gathering.

Regards


----------



## Maxlol

poorBuyer:

welcome to this blog.

I am actually a cash buyer who decided to stop payment and asked Mazaya to withdraw (still waiting notice from Rera though) but would like to know and also to the benefits of other loan buyers whether in your case you are currently paying and will be paying during the delay period any monthly bank fees added to the loan.

Appreciate you feedback.


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## Sukhi

Hello again QueuePointers

If we are willing to fight against this new delay and ease our payment plans or get out of this mess all together, what ever the outcome, let us all meet up asap and discuss this matter and go to MAZAYA together so we can make a decision before month end.. WHAT SAY YOU ALL?

Regards


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## yesramkumar

*Queue point purchase thro Loan from Tamweel*

Dear Liwan Owners,
I am owner of a flat in Plot R.47. I have paid 10% deposit and took 90% loan from Tamweel. As per my statement of account from Tamweel, then have paid 50% of the loan amount, which means 45% of purhcase cost. My payment 10% + Tamweel payment 45% brings the total paid up to 55%. Tamweel has paid their 45% in July 2008 (2.5 years before). Mazaya has not sent any letters so far regarding payment. Hope they are coordinating with Tamweel. 

I got a letter from Mazaya few months back, asking me to contact Tamweel regarding my Queue point property. When i contacted Tamweel, i was informed, that they dont have any information from Mazaya regarding this, and they will contact me later in this regard. After a months time of receiving this letter, i got a call from the customer care of Tamweel, asking me to select one from the 2 options they have.

*Option 1 ->* Forget about the property and forgo 10% deposit which i paid. At the same time, there is no payment required to be paid to Tamweel or Mazaya. Effectively my property is gone, my 10% deposit is gone. Hence no more liability.

*Option 2 ->* Continue holding the property and wait for the delivery from Mazaya. Tamweel will continue to pay the balance to Mazaya as per Schedule. And we need to repay Tamweel, as agreed earlier.

There is no point in loosing my 10% after 3 years for nothing. So i opted for Option 2. I got a confirmation letter from Tamweel, saying that, since i have not taken the option of forgoing the property, Tamweel will continue to pay Mazaya as per schedule, and i need to payback Tamweel, as agreed.

Regarding pre EMI Interest, Tamweel is using the term 'Additional Rental'. This is already fixed for all Loan buyers. For me it is around AED 42,000 which i need to pay on the first month of handing over of the property. We have already given an undated cheque for this amount. I dont think, the delay in property handover will affect the 'Additional Rental', as Tamweel has already fixed this amount at the time of approving the loan amount.

Dear Cash buyers, Let me know if you need any further information on Loan purchase.


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## Sukhi

Hello yesramkumar

Thanks for your info. If I was in your position i would have taken the first option and got out of this mess. Anyway i am still awaiting the new letter from Mazaya, they said we will be getting it soon..

Regards


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## julienemtzek

*IMPORTANT NOTE*

*SUKHI:

You are in the SAME building R047, as Yesramkumar.
You say that you would have taken OPTION 1 : Why haven't you received the same offer.*ALL: Have You ALL received such an offering ( I Have )


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## julienemtzek

SUKHI:

You are in the SAME building R047, as Yesramkumar.
You say that you would have taken OPTION 1 : Why haven't you received the same offer?????

ALL: Have You ALL received such an offering ( I Have )


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## Bad

SUR said:


> BAD, the only person going to jail will be Dr Azizi and those closely associated with him. The net is closing in on your criminal activities and you know it which is why you sound more desperate on each post.


 i dont care about dr azizi and i am following this more than you know and we will see this soon .. just wait and dont delete your comments..:cheers:


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## yesramkumar

Hallo julienemtzek & Others,
*This offer was NOT given by Mazaya. It was from Tamweel.* As per Tamweel, they have given this offer only for selective customers. My friend, who purchased a flat with me in the same building, also got this offer.

I didn’t opt for loosing 10% because, Mazaya is in default and not me. Moreover, Mazaya is supposed to complete the project in Dec 2010. If not, all of us are eligible to get whatever we have paid so far. But I don’t know what Mazaya is going to do now.

I am NOT seeing any fast progress in my building, but i am finding labours are working in the building whenever i visit. Even on Fridays...

Unlike Cash buyers, Loan buyers have paid only a maximum of 10% so far. Few loan buyers has taken 95% finance and paid only 5%. Since the 'Additional Rental' (Pre EMI Interest) is fixed, and the balance loan amount has to be paid only after the handover, we don’t feel the heat so far.

As you guys are saying in this blog, there are several negatives in this project, all because of delay by Mazaya. But I am looking for a return in long term, which i am very much confident as the location is excellent. Moreover hope you all are aware, that Green line Metro is going to be extended till Academic city, which is very near to Liwan. I don’t know what is the fate of Blue and Purple lines, but atleast thro Green line, Dubai city is easily accessible and the value of property will have appreciation in future.

Everything is subject to successful completion of Queue point, by Mazaya.


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## jeetha

*Car hire*

We booked car hire before we left, fully paid for with Carhire3000. 

Booked the navigation system & Carhire300 informed us that satNav will have to be paid 
when we get to Dubai airport. 
When we reach airport the guys at National Desk Dubai International Airport, didn’t have satNav. 

Anyway we proceeded without it and staff at National desk asks for a credit card, we only took the debit card with us.
They refuse to give us the car which was fully paid for. 
Somewhere in the small print it said credit card required. So there was no car for us.

Please note that our local supplier will normally require a security deposit at the start of the rental to cover the insurance excess & fuel, this will normally take the form of an amount being blocked on the credit card of the principal driver. The security deposit is usually returned at the end of the rental provided the car is returned in the same condition as rented. CASH & DEBIT CARD DEPOSITS ARE RARELY ACCEPTED, so please be sure to advise our team prior to booking should you, the renter, require this facility.

Someone else came while we were there to book a car and the guys on the disk turn them away because they had *no cars*. 
So we went to the next keyhost they had no problems with our debt card 
and car was the almost the same price (no satNav there either)

Now I have to call Carhire3000 see if they will return my money.


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## Addel

*so?*

^^ So? and your point is..?


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## Weasel09

Bad said:


> i dont care about dr azizi and i am following this more than you know and we will see this soon .. just wait and dont delete your comments..:cheers:



Okay then I will ask the stupid questions - 

1) Okay your not following Dr Azizi...why not as legally he runs the show, albeit he isn't actually doing anything apart from shafting investors left, right and centre

2) What will we actually see soon as many have been waiting for years

:bash:

How about a nice structured response as so we can see where you lie in terms of this project...whether you are actually an investor at all or one of Dr Azizi's sly little workers

Do you have any investments in Wind at all I wonder....


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## jeetha

Addel said:


> ^^ So? and your point is..?


My point is “paying for anything upfront in Dubai is money down the drain”.


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## beer51

I agree with Jeeta.


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## Sukhi

Hello Julienemtzek

As yesramkumar pointed out, it was an offer from Tamweel, not from Mazaya. I am a cash buyer i did not take any loan on the property although i wish i had, so i could take option 1. thanks


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## Pleth

Getting a credit, a credit note, a refund or a deposit back in Dubai is next to impossible.
Whether it is from RERA, Aramex, banks or what ever.
People don't even know what a credit note is. :bash:

Let me know how you get on?


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## True Blue

I did a Dewa registration on one of my apartments and paid the 1000AED deposit. A year later the departing tenant disconnected the services so I made a trip to Dewa to get them reconnected. Female behind the counter asked for another 1000AED deposit which I was shocked about. She said they don't keep records of landlords so I needed to go through the entire registration process again and pay the 1000AED for a second time. Fortunately I had a copy of the initial registration and receipt for the deposit which I pushed under her nose. "Oh!" she said and took a copy of it. Nothing more was discussed nor was an apology offered, she just advised me to call the connections team and they would be round within the day to turn everything back on.

Moral of the story is keep all your Dewa receipts, you will certainly need them at some time.


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## unknownpleasures

jeetha said:


> My point is “paying for anything upfront in Dubai is money down the drain”.


^^^^^^
Just shows how Dubai really makes their money!

Ripping customers off any way they can!


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## unknownpleasures

RERA is nothing but all talk and no action,,,if they were really serious something would have already been achieved for the investors! Instead they back all the developers, why? because they are the ones holding the investors funds and getting richer!

The use of force majuere is so pathetic it beggars belief...come on RERA what are you really going to do about it??...where's the follow up on "What to ask RERA"? Hello!


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## unknownpleasures

MarkWass said:


> I had a look at the websites of the banks who hold the Escrow accounts for a couple of the developers that I have reserved apartments with. Both of which developments were supposed to be complete and handed over 2 years ago. Neither have actually started any REAL construction yet, despite the fact that all units were, at one point in time anyway, apparently ‘sold out’ and construction and materials costs have since come down.
> 
> 1. *Dubai Islamic Bank* http://www.dib.ae/en/realestate_escrow%20account.htm
> *Which includes:*
> “Key Benefits:
> Competitive profit rates on account balances.”
> 
> 2. *Tamweel Bank* http://tamweel.ae/en/EscrowManagementServices.aspx
> *Which includes:*
> “Key Benefits:
> Competitive profit rates”
> 
> Plet, I think that the “competitive profit rates” are likely to be higher than 1% on average over a 5 to 10 year period, but for the sake of argument let’s use your figure of 1% and assume that they only paid out at that rate for an entire decade.
> 
> Anyone know what the above 2 (DIB and Tamweel) profit rate paid on escrow account balances is? Or any other banks..
> 
> Using the example from my earlier message, where a developer has 500 investors who had already paid 1 million AED by 2007 or 8 (and I’m not mentioning names, but for some of the developers I have invested with, that is an extremely _conservative_ estimate). This would mean an initial balance of 500 million AED.
> 
> After 5 years of ‘force majeure’ type delaying shenanigans, the interest or ‘profit rate’ return on the money alone would be 25.5 million AED. Although over a 5 year period, I would expect that many of the developers would have negotiated a better return than 1%, so that figure could be substantially higher, even in this current economic climate.
> 
> OK, sure they could make more money in theory if all the units were sold out and they had delivered them by the Anticipated Completion Date. But even if they don’t, and the reason for which has to a certain extent has been the result of poor business planning on the developer’s part, regardless of external market conditions. And even if those developers own S.P.A. contracts imposes some sort of token gesture ‘penalty rate’ on themselves for late delivery after a 12 month grace period as per contracts, they could still make a profit by doing absolutely nothing. Especially for those developers with many projects, they can focus their resources on some of them, making hefty profits on those, while still making a small profit on the ones they are delaying purely from this ‘profit rate’. Although of course the investors on those delayed projects, like yours truly, are well and truly shafted.
> 
> I say token gesture ‘penalty rate’ although of course they are not due under ‘force majeure’ clauses in the contracts…
> 
> Bearing in mind the above and the fact that many customers paid out vast amounts of cash long before a grain of sand had been shifted, this is one place where speculative (and unregulated) developers have been able to pass on all the ‘speculation’ element (all the risk) of speculative development on to others, unchecked!
> 
> Come on RERA, less talk, more action, if you are ‘allowed’ to take action of course. Regulate. PLEASE!


^^^^^^
Somehow RERA are playing everyone as fools! Problem is most of those savvy enough have caught onto the game!

I think Bin Ghailaita thinks it all his in the manner in which he was putting his point across...Think about it he said if we only had the Escrow accounts much earlier we would have been the richest govt dept!...words to that effect...http://www.arabianbusiness.com/excl...w-accounts-rera-boss-bin-ghalaita-365834.html

Who is profiting?


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## unknownpleasures

http://www.emirates247.com/news/no-...e-law-ghalita-2010-12-09-1.327141#add-comment
^^^^
Oh yes they are!


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## SUR

Bad said:


> i dont care about dr azizi and i am following this more than you know and we will see this soon .. just wait and dont delete your comments..:cheers:


Just proves there is NO honour among thieves - if you're as close to Dr Azizi as you have made out in your posts then you will certainly be questioned. You have made many comments that invalidate your innocence.

"....dont delete your comments" - what does that mean?


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## julienemtzek

thx guys for clearing it. 

I think that mazaya are cooking up something related to getting the Force Majeure card out - I was at their office today. As they are scared that everyone will be asking to pull out after Dec'10.

Although the recently sent letter with the new payment schedule approved by Rera is a totally fraudulent step but it has no mention of them using the Force majeure or saying that the final date as per the contract has been changed. 

Any thoughts


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## paul.mcgregory

*Option to opt out!!*



I am an owner in Liwan Qpoint as well and I paln to start pitching in quite often.

yesramkumar: Regarding the option to opt out, Kindly let me know what do you mean by this offer was given to selective customers!!!!!!!!!!. As I have a Tamweel mortgage and my property is in R19 - which is at the same construction stage as R47 - 50%. But haven't received this. 
Please let me know if there were certain criteria required that you learned about in order to receive such an option. I plan to try and contact them on the matter can you help me out with a contact at Tamweel from the department that gave you this option (_already tried cust. ser.- just no hope with these guys_) would really appreciate if you can send me a contact at Tamweel for this.

Appreciate your help

Forum members please let me know if any of you with Tamweel mortgage and has not received the option to pull out??

Cheers


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## 234sale

jeetha said:


> My point is “paying for anything upfront in Dubai is money down the drain”.


Same in UK,, sorry about the no car, but cash up front is the way most places today. 

Two many cars disappear across boarders.


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## jeetha

Their excuse was that they only took credit cards. Debt cards was a no no. 

The guys next door had no problems with my debit card.


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## luv2bebrown

True Blue said:


> "Oh!" she said and took a copy of it. Nothing more was discussed nor was an apology offered, she just advised me to call the connections team and they would be round within the day to turn everything back on.


reminds me of a friend who got a mistaken traffic fine. he went to the police station to dispute it and the cop angrily said nothing can be done. my friend forced him to pull up the speedtrap camera picture of the license plate, and explained that the letter was wrong.

"Oh!" was the cop's response. the fine was then wiped out.


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## luv2bebrown

smussuw said:


> Emiratis will now have to pay if the water consumption exceed 10,000 gallons a month while it was free before. Electricity rate didn't change.
> 
> And this matters because?


woah! no wonder environmental waste is so high in the UAE!

the government is running "save our water" campaigns, but at the same time offering 10,000 gallons a month free. doesn't make sense.


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## smussuw

luv2bebrown said:


> woah! no wonder environmental waste is so high in the UAE!
> 
> the government is running "save our water" campaigns, but at the same time offering 10,000 gallons a month free. doesn't make sense.


Well, I agree but it is still better than nothing.

[Meanwhile smussuw enjoying a full tub bath :drool:] :lol:


----------



## live action

So after the announcement of the cancellation of 200 projects
(http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-s-rera-says-202-real-estate-projects-cancelled-367414.html) 

I went over today to Land Department / RERA where I was shuffled from one department to the next. It seems like RERA CEO made an announcement to the media without informing anyone on his staff. Anyway, nobody could tell me anything. The way the article describes the criteria for cancellation, I can't believe that Niki Lauda would not be on the list. What this means legally for investors and the money in the escrow account is a big issue. Please share if you find out anything.


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## Richard Head

unknownpleasures said:


> http://www.emirates247.com/news/no-...e-law-ghalita-2010-12-09-1.327141#add-comment
> ^^^^
> Oh yes they are!


Dude, you post too much. Just give it up already. Or say something constructive. :nuts:


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## luv2bebrown

smussuw said:


> Well, I agree but it is still better than nothing.
> 
> [Meanwhile smussuw enjoying a full tub bath :drool:] :lol:


They should eliminate the housing fee, and double DEWA charges. 

people will reduce their consumption to save money. and the resources saved can be sold abroad.


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## harry_dewaan

*Any REFUND?*



DXB1980 said:


> They are unwilling to consider any compensation, I have paid 70% of my unit in the Spring Cluster and the project has been (indefinitely?) shelved. What can be done and most importantly what are other unit owners doing?


Hi, me also sailing in the same boat as u. Invested in Springs cluster, paid 50% but no signs of the project coming up. They called me up to swap in Summer Cluster, which I've refused outrightly. I asked for a refund, to which, they had the nerve to tell me that they wud deduct 10% of the deposit amt & repay the balance, which is unacceptable to me, as they have FAILED IN ALL RESPECTS as far as "SPRINGS CLUSTER" is concerned. Hence, they have NO RIGHTS WHATSOEVER to deduct 10%, as they have "FAILED TO PERFORM THEIR PART of CONTRACT OBLIGATIONS" & not me.

Waiting for RERA to come-up with some clarity on such "NON-STARTERS & FAILED PROJECTS", so that I can take a firm stand.


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## Hanna

*New Visa laws contributing factor (you don't say) !*

Dubai property prices may drop for the next two years, extending a decline in the emirate that’s already cut values by more than 60 percent since the 2008 peak.

Residential values may fall as much as 20 percent more by the end of 2012 if new homes are built as planned, according to broker Landmark Advisory in Dubai.

Cluttons, a London-based property consultant, and Jones Lang LaSalle, the second- largest publicly traded commercial property broker, also forecast further declines.

About 48,000 homes will come on to the market in the next two years, or about 12 percent of existing supply, according to Jesse Downs, director of research at Landmark. An influx of foreign buyers sparked a construction boom as prices rose by 79 percent to mid-2008 from 2007 before the financial crisis caused lenders to tighten credit and speculators left the market.

“There is still no parity between supply and demand,” said Paul Richard, associate director at Cluttons in Dubai, which estimates that 35,000 homes will be completed through 2012. “You’re looking at a good two years” for Dubai’s market to reach bottom, he said.

Craig Plumb, head of Middle East research at Jones Lang, said prices are still falling and the rate and duration of the decline will depend on the type of property. Hotels will recover first and commercial properties last, he said.

Emaar Properties, Dubai’s biggest developer and the builder of the world’s tallest tower, reported a seven percent drop in third-quarter profit, missing analyst estimates, as costs and writedowns increased.

Construction firm Arabtec Holding saw earnings slump 96 percent, while apartment and office builder Deyaar Development PJSC reported a loss. Home prices fell six percent in the quarter from the previous three months, Colliers International said on November 7.

Almost half of Dubai’s planned real estate projects, from offices to villas, were cancelled as buyers defaulted and access to funding became harder. Residents who lost their jobs had to leave the country within 30 days, causing many to abandon their cars and mortgages.

Emaar chairman Mohamed Alabbar said last month that Dubai’s market has bottomed out “without a doubt,” and “not much” new housing supply is coming on the market.

Predictions of an end to the slump have proven overly optimistic in the past. In May 2009, Markus Giebel, then the chief executive officer of Deyaar, said the property market would bottom out that year. In the same month, Landmark Advisory said home values may stop sliding in the fourth quarter of 2009.

“Without an influx of demand from outside the country, forget about it,” Cluttons’s Richard said. He estimates that home prices will drop five percent to ten percent by next summer.

Attracting foreigners became more challenging after the government changed residency rules last year. From 2002, property ownership qualified the buyer for a five-year residency visa that was easily renewed. That changed in May 2009, when new United Arab Emirates regulations cut the length of residency visas to six months and required holders to leave the country and return for renewals, paying AED2,000 ($546) per visa each time.

The law also says a property must be worth at least AED1m and be large enough to accommodate the number of people granted residency as a result. In addition, it requires the buyer to have monthly income of no less than AED10,000 as well as medical insurance.

“The visa rules have been highly damaging and definitely shattered people’s confidence,” said Ludmila Yamalova, a partner at law firm HPL Yamalova & Plewka JLT. “Many bought property just because that would enable them to live here. They had their five-year residency and built their lives around it. Now they don’t have that security.”

Service fees charged by developers for maintenance of common areas such as pools and gyms have discouraged potential buyers interested in generating rental income, Cluttons’s Richard said. The fees can cut a landlord’s return by almost half.
Dubai property prices may fall for two more years 

Landmark Advisory’s Downs said new properties will drive down rents, pushing values lower.

“Rents are very important because occupier demand leads investor demand,” she said in an interview.

Downs predicts home prices will drop 15 percent to 20 percent by 2012 if the most residential buildings currently under construction go onto the market as scheduled.

“If the pipeline is delayed, that will only prolong the cycle,” she said. Properties won’t see renewed demand “until prices come down further and buyers have greater certainty over long-term rent yields.”


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## unknownpleasures

Any reason why the amount per sq foot is indicated at 100 AED in this article - is it a misprint or is it correct? Anyone's guess!

http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/dubai-property-valuation-turns-into-guessing-game


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## robertacg

It is a misprint. At that level a 1000 ft flat would be £20k sterling. I defy anyone to find a flat for sale at any price less than 350 dirhams per foot. I personally would buy as many as I could, I would sell everything I had in the UK if I ever see such a ridicolous price. A great fortune would be made at that level. It is far below build costs, for what is still a desirable location in a rich country.

Author means a 1000 per ft, which I personally believe might transpire to be a toppy price, whether or not buyers and sellers are transacting or not in the current market. I can well believe 350 to 500 per foot being a level required to generate sales again in quantity, seeing the situation we are in.


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## abtidon

MashAllah... great pictures, thank you


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## unknownpleasures

Just had a thought maybe it's not a misprint and it was for an uncompleted project at 100 AED! Could that be it?

859 sq ft £284k,and one 750 sq ft for £146k - is this too much to pay for something in DSC? Called the Diamond? This one's completed! 

All the off plans (uncompleted or barely none or very little progress) remain in limbo - these may also be worth around 100 AED as they are just not selling! It's a thought to be reckoned with I guess! 

At this stage it is abundantly clear that off plans are not selling and one can safely assume that they would be worth very little on the resale market right now - the one's yet to be built (delayed/placed on hold/force majeure)!


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## True Blue

robertacg said:


> It is a misprint. At that level a 1000 ft flat would be £20k sterling. I defy anyone to find a flat for sale at any price less than 350 dirhams per foot. I personally would buy as many as I could, I would sell everything I had in the UK if I ever see such a ridicolous price. A great fortune would be made at that level. It is far below build costs, for what is still a desirable location in a rich country.
> 
> Author means a 1000 per ft, which I personally believe might transpire to be a toppy price, whether or not buyers and sellers are transacting or not in the current market. I can well believe 350 to 500 per foot being a level required to generate sales again in quantity, seeing the situation we are in.


What value would you place on West Avenue, a development by Select property in the marina. Barely moved in 3 years and still not under construction, Sheikh Zayed road view, and developer with a reputation for poor finishes. Or Eden Blue where construction had started and stopped, now they are filling it back in. I think if owners could get AED100/ft for these developments they would take it and cut their losses.


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## arfie

True Blue said:


> What value would you place on West Avenue, a development by Select property in the marina. Barely moved in 3 years and still not under construction, Sheikh Zayed road view, and developer with a reputation for poor finishes. Or Eden Blue where construction had started and stopped, now they are filling it back in. I think if owners could get AED100/ft for these developments they would take it and cut their losses.


So TB what do you think is the realistic price per sq ft of a completed apartment in the Marina ? 

I agree anything which has barely started probably is not even worth 100 dhs per sq ft simply because no one will be willing to take a risk to buy something that may never get built.


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## TerryPop

*Valuations*

I think the only real offers coming in for any property will be based on what it will yield.

That pretty much f*cks all off-plan.

Whenever something comes to us and it looks cheap, I ring up my ginger friend (a real shrewd unpleasant type) and the maths is done on what it (apt/villa/office) might yield in rent.

Thats it really.

There is some discussion about cushioning for further rent falls, and possible upside with some service charge reductions- and that factors in to any offer we make.

If you carry out this exercise on any ready property today in the market, 20-30% falls still look likely unfortunately.


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## unknownpleasures

^^^^
I like the sound of your ginger friend! 

A number would be helpful!


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## True Blue

arfie said:


> So TB what do you think is the realistic price per sq ft of a completed apartment in the Marina ?
> 
> I agree anything which has barely started probably is not even worth 100 dhs per sq ft simply because no one will be willing to take a risk to buy something that may never get built.


Arfie, what you have to realise is the days of saying an apartment in the marina is worth 1000/ft, are gone. Valuations are based on merits and demerits and definately some of what Terry pop explains above. No one can conceivably state a 2 bed in Marina Diamond will acheive the same as a 2 bed in say Infinity Tower(which is still off plan). Location, quality of development and design, views etc all contribute to the desireability and value for both tenants and end users.


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## noir-dresses

Very well said TB.

Price's can also vary in the same building just on the apartment type, floor, view, interior, etc, etc.


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## robertacg

Be interesting if we could actually build up a database of completed deals at agreed prices. 

100 dhs as an option on an unbuilt development where majority of payments are unmade, developer is not solid, finishes uncertain, location bad, certainly why not ? 100 dhs may even be optimistic.

But 100dhs for a finished product, plainly nonsense. Is 700dhs the new 1000dhs in the Marina for finished ok product ?


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## TerryPop

Look if there is no real prospect for capital appreciation in property, the only way to value your unit is on the potential income it can generate.


Thats it now, so if you want to know roughly what your property is worth try renting it and see what you can net.


The only buyers in the market are using the above as a criteria to make offers so there is no point discussing views, finishing etc.


Sometimes an apt in JBR with no views may draw in more rent then palm jumeirah Atlantis view, yet one is 'valued' a third more then the other.

Tenants like 'busy', shops etc.


*Your value is your net annual rent divided by 6, multiplied by 100.*


----------



## noir-dresses

TerryPop said:


> Look if there is no real prospect for capital appreciation in property, the only way to value your unit is on the potential income it can generate.
> 
> 
> Thats it now, so if you want to know roughly what your property is worth try renting it and see what you can net.
> 
> 
> The only buyers in the market are using the above as a criteria to make offers so there is no point discussing views, finishing etc.
> 
> 
> Sometimes an apt in JBR with no views may draw in more rent then palm jumeirah Atlantis view, yet one is 'valued' a third more then the other.
> 
> Tenants like 'busy', shops etc.
> 
> 
> *Your value is your net annual rent multiplied by 6.*


Terry annual rent multiplied by 6 is a good buy if you want to rent it out, and if you ask me that is rock bottom, The investment is payed back in let's say 8-10 year's if you don't have major repair's. What if some one has daily rent, like Home Owner's Direct, at the end of the year they net in a lot more than the classic yearly rent ?

Now how would you value real estate for an end user who want's to live in it where emotion's have a big say ?

There are many different way's to factor in the value of real estate.

My question is would you sell your place's with your formula ?


----------



## TerryPop

noir-dresses said:


> Terry annual rent multiplied by 6 is a good buy if you want to rent it out, and if you ask me that is rock bottom, The investment is payed back in let's say 8-10 year's if you don't have major repair's. What if some one has daily rent, like Home Owner's Direct, at the end of the year they net in a lot more than the classic yearly rent ?
> 
> Now how would you value real estate for an end user who want's to live in it where emotion's have a big say ?
> 
> There are many different way's to factor in the value of real estate.
> 
> My question is would you sell your place's with your formula ?


The emotional investors (family buying villa for own use) are not here. They have not been given the tools to enter the market. (accessible/affordable mortgages- visa & job security)

I have units in the market and its not the sweet couples trying to make a home coming to buy, its the investors, the money men.

Incidentally I got the formula wrong above- just tired...:nuts:

*Take your annual net rent, divide it by 6 and multiply that by 100.*
For an emtional investor such as a family, instead of 6 use 4 in the above.

(inceidentally I think using a 6 percent net yield is being generous- but i don't want to scare you guys!)


----------



## TerryPop

noir-dresses said:


> Terry .
> 
> My question is would you sell your place's with your formula ?


yes and we have bought on the same, and if you look at the offers coming in on any real estate in dubai you'll see some correlation to the formula (tho dividing by 6 may vary to a 5 or even a 7 or 8)


Its bad but that is where we are at. 

Short lets don't come into it because they are essntially a business, in fact require a license to operate I believe.


----------



## noir-dresses

You had me thinking there Terry, but your updated version make's me feel a lot better, thank's.

Take your annual net rent, divide it by 6 and multiply that by 100.
For an emtional investor such as a family, instead of 6 use 4 in the above.

Come January 2nd I might be coming to Dubai for who know's how long to off load. I'll buy the longest visa possible when, and if I come.

I will be a emotional seller, trying to find an emotional buyer, and with your formula I should leave Dubai with a smile on my face since I bought back in 2004.

I know one thing for sure, if I do come down I will live it up like it's my last time there. :colgate:


----------



## AppleMac

TerryPop said:


> *Your value is your net annual rent divided by 6, multiplied by 100.*


That seems a tad generous - it works out a signifcantly higher value than I believe I could sell for.


----------



## TerryPop

AppleMac said:


> That seems a tad generous - it works out a signifcantly higher value than I believe I could sell for.


Like I said, am trying not to scare people.

In reality most investors will be looking for 7 or 8 per cent minimum.

Whats the point with the hassle free bond issues coming out, which are much easier to manage.

There is also significant risks associated with being a land lord in Dubai that no one seems to discuss.


----------



## TerryPop

This is exactly how banks are going to value property in Dubai.

They will take the net achievable rent (once things have bottomed) and then value based on that.

e.g. discovery gdns 1 bed, rented at 45k, service fees and cooling 25k means a net yield of 20,000 aed per year.

divide by 6 and this is valued at 330,000 dirhams.

Of course they won't tell you they have valued your apartment at such a low rate, they'll hide that in the debt to equity ratio they offer


----------



## Hanna

*Visitors to UAE must stay out for one month to apply for new visa*

Tourist permits can be extended for 30 days without leaving country

Dubai: Visitors to the UAE must stay one month outside the country before they can apply for another visit visa, said senior official from Ministry of Interior.

Major General Mohammad Ahmad Al Merri, Director General of the Dubai Residency and Foreigners Affairs Department, told Gulf News that there are no changes in the rules for visit visas. 

"People who entered the country on a visit visa and wanted a fresh visa must leave the country for one month before they can apply for another visit visa," said Major General Al Merri.

Rumours

Major General Al Merri denied rumours that people who entered the country on visit visas must stay outside the country for three months before they can apply for another visit visa. Major General Al Merri said that there are two categories of visit visa — three-month duration and one-month duration. People have to leave the country for one month before applying for new visit visas.

Major General Al Merri said that people can also apply for a tourist visa which is valid for one month and can be extended for another month without leaving the country.


:cheers:


----------



## dubaiprojects

TerryPop said:


> The emotional investors (family buying villa for own use) are not here. They have not been given the tools to enter the market. (accessible/affordable mortgages- visa & job security)
> 
> I have units in the market and its not the sweet couples trying to make a home coming to buy, its the investors, the money men.
> 
> Incidentally I got the formula wrong above- just tired...:nuts:
> 
> *Take your annual net rent, divide it by 6 and multiply that by 100.*
> For an emtional investor such as a family, instead of 6 use 4 in the above.
> 
> (inceidentally I think using a 6 percent net yield is being generous- but i don't want to scare you guys!)


Following your 6% rental yield formula, my property now worth almost double the price I paid . Does it make sense in current time? Will any one buy it at that rate even if its on prime location etc etc?


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.emirates247.com/business...-prices-down-20-this-year-2010-12-18-1.330829

Dubai's business allure brightens as office prices down 20% this year
The biggest drop seen for office spaces in Dubailand
By

* Shuchita Kapur

Published Saturday, December 18, 2010

DIFC office selling rates fell 16.66 per cent from Dh1,800-3,000 psf to Dh1,800-2,200 psf (AGENCIES)

Driven by a decline in demand and an increase in supply of office units in the emirate, selling price of commercial spaces in Dubai recorded a drop of more than 20 per cent in the first 10 months of 2010.

An 'Emirates 24|7' analysis of Better Homes data reveals the average selling price for offices has dropped from Dh1,425 per square feet (psf) in January this year to Dh1,137 in October, registering a drop of 20.54 per cent.

This in effect makes it less expensive for existing and new businesses to expand or set up shop in Dubai even as a number of businesses relocate their existing offices to better locations within the emirate, and more entities from neighbouring emirates and countries once again eyeing office space in Dubai.

The biggest drop was seen for office spaces in the Dubailand area, where the average selling price fell from Dh1,000-1,200 per sq ft to Dh550-700 psf in 10 months, a decline of over 45 per cent.

Tecom, on the other hand, saw stabalisation and saw the least drop in prices – about nine per cent, from Dh800-1,400 psf to Dh800-1,200 psf.

DIFC and Downtown Burj Dubai saw similar declines. DIFC office selling rates fell 16.66 per cent from Dh1,800-3,000 psf to Dh1,800-2,200 psf. Downtown Burj Dubai rates fell by 17.77 per cent from Dh2,000-2,500 psf to 1,200-2,500 psf.

Business Bay area also took a hit and the rates have fallen down to Dh800-1,200 psf from Dh1,200-1,800 psf from the beginning of this year.

Office spaces are now available in Jumeirah Lake Towers for anything between Dh500-900 psf, which is down by 14.28 since January.

Neighbouring Dubai Marina is much dearer, where office units are selling at the rate of Dh1,200-1,600 psf. However, this too is down by 12.5 per cent compared with the sale price in January.

Dubai Silicon Oasis, on Emirates Road, continues to offer the cheapest rates. The ongoing selling rates are in the bracket of Dh500-600 psf, after taking into account a decline of 15.38 per cent for the 10-month period.


----------



## TerryPop

dubaiprojects said:


> Following your 6% rental yield formula, my property now worth almost double the price I paid . Does it make sense in current time? Will any one buy it at that rate even if its on prime location etc etc?


ooh lucky you, we have some units we bought in 2004 that remain a little off a double too.

turn that 6 into an 8, and re do the exercise if you feel like being pessimistic tho


----------



## unknownpleasures

the problem is if you were to sell would you get in in this market and I think the answer to that question is simple...NO!


----------



## glover

your formula is based on intrinsic value. however, the market today is a distressed market, and that formula goes out the window in such a market.

the value today is based on what buyers are willing to pay. in prime locations in the marina, on average that's around AED 1,000 psqf. 



TerryPop said:


> ooh lucky you, we have some units we bought in 2004 that remain a little off a double too.
> 
> turn that 6 into an 8, and re do the exercise if you feel like being pessimistic tho


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Guys,

I'm considering purchasing a unit in a project called 'Two Towers' in Tecom. The developer is basically offering a pretty decent 10Y payment plan (with not much payments due in the first couple of years) and I'm told (although am yet to verify this for myself) that finishing, quality of the apartment etc is excellent - very top end apparently. On this 10Y payment plan the price psf works out to be around 1170. 

Now I know that is more expensive than a cash purchase but what do you guys think of the price? Apt is one bed, over 1300 sq ft....also how does Tecom rate as an area? It's obviously not Marina but is it on par with JLT / Greens etc?

One last question I have is that the developer wants post dated cheques for the next two years' instalments but I don't and can't have a current account in Dubai as I'm not a resident (I only have a savings a/c). So the developer has suggested that I give him post dated cheques from my UK a/c with Nat West....now I'm planning to pay the instalments from my rental income and the developer will give me back the cheques as and when the instalments are transferred into their a/c. Does this stack up according to your experiences? Also could the developer try to deposit the cheque before the stated date?

I know that's quite a few questions but any advice would be much appreciated.


----------



## noir-dresses

Abu Ahmad said:


> Guys,
> 
> I'm considering purchasing a unit in a project called 'Two Towers' in Tecom. The developer is basically offering a pretty decent 10Y payment plan (with not much payments due in the first couple of years) and I'm told (although am yet to verify this for myself) that finishing, quality of the apartment etc is excellent - very top end apparently. On this 10Y payment plan the price psf works out to be around 1170.
> 
> Now I know that is more expensive than a cash purchase but what do you guys think of the price? Apt is one bed, over 1300 sq ft....also how does Tecom rate as an area? It's obviously not Marina but is it on par with JLT / Greens etc?
> 
> One last question I have is that the developer wants post dated cheques for the next two years' instalments but I don't and can't have a current account in Dubai as I'm not a resident (I only have a savings a/c). So the developer has suggested that I give him post dated cheques from my UK a/c with Nat West....now I'm planning to pay the instalments from my rental income and the developer will give me back the cheques as and when the instalments are transferred into their a/c. Does this stack up according to your experiences? Also could the developer try to deposit the cheque before the stated date?
> 
> I know that's quite a few questions but any advice would be much appreciated.


Stay away from off plan, too expensive for off plan today, it should be cheaper than a finished unit, every developer say's they will have an excellent finish b.s. don't trust them, if your giving them post dated cheques, and a signature on the contract that means your the only one taking the risk, and god only knows when it will be built.

You have so many finished apartments/villas for good prices now that this would be a big mistake. 

Use common sense, and don't let the sales pitch get to your head cause the hey day of take it, or leave it are long gone.

It's a buyer's market, so take advantage of that, focus more on how to pay for a finished unit you can walk into the next day.

Good luck.


----------



## smussuw

*New rules will ease job switch*

Sunday, Dec 19, 2010

Gulf News

The resolution says that the new employment permit will only be granted to the worker after the end of his work relationship with his employer

Abu Dhabi: As part of the ongoing reforms in the labour market, the Labour Ministry will soon introduce new regulations granting foreign workers more freedom to change employers without the six-month work ban or consent of the current employer.

The new rules, which will take effect on January 1, will replace the current formalities of transfer of sponsorship for foreign workers.

Reforms

The pioneer in social innovation
A new resolution issued by Saqr Gobash Saeed Gobash, the Minister of Labour, says a new employment permit will only be granted to a worker after the end of his work relationship with his employer without consideration of the legitimate six-month period which is usually calculated after the cancellation of the worker's labour card, but stipulates two must-do conditions:
1. The two contracting parties must have ended their work relationship cordially;

2. The worker should have worked with his employer for at least two years — the duration of the new labour card which will be issued by early January.

The labour market reforms, as stated by President His Highness Shaikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan in his National Day speech, are a challenge the UAE is addressing as part of its human development process.

Shaikh Khalifa said the Government "will press ahead with the process of updating legislation, regulating the labour market, supporting Emiratisation and empowering the private sector, encouraging it to shoulder social responsibilities, to invest in national human resources, to adopt environment protection mechanisms and to meet the needs of society".
The resolution defines two cases in which the worker can obtain the new work permit after the end of the job contract without the agreement of the contracting parties:

1. When the employer fails to honour his legal or contractual obligations;

2. In the event of expiry of a work relationship where the worker is not responsible for it, but there is a complaint filed by the worker against the firm, an inspection report should prove that the firm has been out of business for more than two months. As well, it should determine the worker has reported the same to the ministry.

The resolution says the labour dispute should have been referred by the ministry to the court and it issued a final ruling ordering the employer to pay the worker at least two months salary in compensation for the arbitrary sacking or termination of the contract prematurely, or any other rights.

Right to work permit

The resolution also defines three cases in which the worker shall have the right to get a work permit without fulfilling the condition of working at least two years with the employer:

1. When joining his new job, the worker should be classified in the first, second or third professional class and that his salary should be not less than Dh12,000, Dh7,000 and Dh5,000 if he is in the first, second and third class respectively.

2. Non-compliance of the employer with legal and labour obligations towards the worker or in the event the worker has no role in terminating the work relationship;

3. Transferring the worker to another firm the employer owns it or has stakes in it.

Gobash told the Federal National Council (FNC) on Tuesday the long-term goal of reforming the sponsorship system is to create a flexible labour market that meets development requirements. "Our labour market must be flexible, efficient and committed to Emiratisation policies as top priority."

By Samir Salama, Associate Editor
© Gulf News 2010. All rights reserved.

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidGN_18122010_191239/UAE: New Rules Will Ease Job Switch


----------



## Abu Ahmad

noir-dresses said:


> Stay away from off plan, too expensive for off plan today, it should be cheaper than a finished unit, every developer say's they will have an excellent finish b.s. don't trust them, if your giving them post dated cheques, and a signature on the contract that means your the only one taking the risk, and god only knows when it will be built.
> 
> You have so many finished apartments/villas for good prices now that this would be a big mistake.
> 
> Use common sense, and don't let the sales pitch get to your head cause the hey day of take it, or leave it are long gone.
> 
> It's a buyer's market, so take advantage of that, focus more on how to pay for a finished unit you can walk into the next day.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks very much Noir. I should have pointed out that this is actually a completely finished unit.....any further thoughts?


----------



## noir-dresses

Abu Ahmad said:


> Thanks very much Noir. I should have pointed out that this is actually a completely finished unit.....any further thoughts?


Now that change's every thing, so I figure you saw the interior fit as well. 

Still a little expensive, but if you think your tenant will pay it off for you, than go for it.


----------



## Abu Ahmad

noir-dresses said:


> Now that change's every thing, so I figure you saw the interior fit as well.
> 
> Still a little expensive, but if you think your tenant will pay it off for you, than go for it.


Haven't seen it myself yet (although planning to do so in a couple of weeks God Willing) but seen lots of pictures from various different and unconnected parties and finished article does look good....nice big balconies across the whole width of the apartment aswell with views of SZR and in some instances even the sea.

And yes I'm hoping that rental income will contribute the bulk of the repayments God Willing.

Now the thing that's got me slightly on the back foot is this issue of post dated cheques. The developer is proposing that in order for them to have some security they need PDCs from me for the next 2 years. Can you or anyone else here clarify the following:

I will be signing a SPA with the developer - does this make me the legal owner of the property even if I don't register the apartment at DLD? And therefore in theory could I simply stop payments once I have taken possession and would the developer have very little recourse? I'm just trying to look at things from the developer's perspective as they're really insisting on these PDCs and this is the main thing holding me back....

Thanks very much Noir for all your help so far...


----------



## True Blue

^^You are entering a grey area. You are taking the apartment over 10 years payments so you will not be the owner until the last payment is made. You are effectively leasing the unit in the interim. You need to take legal advice on this and find out if you are protected if the developer becomes bankrupt. You also need to find out what restrictions are imposed on you by the developer. If the developer is deemed to be the owner until you finish the payments, can he change the rules to suit himself? What about owners association, maybe the developer can be the only property manager as he owns the whole building?


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Thanks True Blue, that is a good point. Although if the property is registered in my name at the Land Dept wouldn't that essentially mean I am the registered / legal owner? I thought that's what the whole Oqood registration was about?

Anyhow it's a fair point and as you've suggested it may be best to get some legal advice on this one...


----------



## True Blue

I am not sure if you would be registered as the owner at the land department or if you would only be registered on the interim property register as you will not have obtained a completion of payments certificate from the developer. I am sure a completion of payments certificate or no objection certificate will be required by the lands department to record ownership.


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Yes, that seems to make sense. Will be getting in touch with my lawyer to get some clarity around ownership etc...

Thanks Noir and True Blue - by the way, how does Tecom rate as an area in comparison to Marina, JLT?


----------



## liwanowner

While I am a cash buyer, it is interesting to know the point of view of the people who opted for home financing. Had I been in your position, I would have taken option 2 as well because I find it difficult to just let go of such a large sum of money (10%) for no fault of my own. If anything, its they who should be losing out money, not us. I have been away a few days and its good to see healthy discussion ongoing. I do not mind meeting, in fact have brought it up many times, but none have agreed. A few posts back I mentioned that I had written to Mazaya a very stern letter asking them to answer 10 very specific questions, and they had promised to get back to me within a week, but sadly and perhaps quite expectantly, they have not replied. I have sent them another angry reminder, but something tells me it will do me no good.

Please, lets all continue sharing our experiences.


----------



## TerryPop

glover said:


> your formula is based on intrinsic value. however, the market today is a distressed market, and that formula goes out the window in such a market.
> 
> the value today is based on what buyers are willing to pay. in prime locations in the marina, on average that's around AED 1,000 psqf.




Glover I have numerous examples (recently) of it working in very different areas

Disco gardens investor offering 380k it nets ard 20k per annum 

3 bed in Original 6 Dubai marina offered 3mill nets 170k per annum

Palm Jumeirah 2 bed offered 1.6 mill it nets 100k per annum

Thats a pretty good spread and the formula is pretty accurate?


----------



## TerryPop

Abu Ahmad said:


> Yes, that seems to make sense. Will be getting in touch with my lawyer to get some clarity around ownership etc...
> 
> Thanks Noir and True Blue - by the way, how does Tecom rate as an area in comparison to Marina, JLT?


Hi Abu,

Have a look around as there are other areas offering this type of rent to own plan.

I can see its attractive as you by-pass the need for banks.

I have heard Tecom has good facilities like gyms and pools in comparison to say discovery gardens.

But location location location is the buyers mantra- so perhaps google "rent to own" dubai and see if you get alternatives OR be happy with the area and location that Tecom is in.

Just my 2 cent 0.50 fils


----------



## TerryPop

TerryPop said:


> Glover I have numerous examples (recently) of it working in very different areas
> 
> Disco gardens investor offering 380k it nets ard 20k per annum
> 
> 3 bed in Original 6 Dubai marina offered 3mill nets 170k per annum
> 
> Palm Jumeirah 2 bed offered 1.6 mill it nets 100k per annum
> 
> Thats a pretty good spread and the formula is pretty accurate?


I need to emphasise this formula only applies to existing, built & lived in properties, and its not bullet proof.


----------



## Philippa C

I don't understand why if the number of projects that have been cancelled seems to be going up the number of units to be delivered over the next 2 years stays more or less the same. Maybe noone really knows what's going on.

My friend works for a real estate agency and says she's really busy! She works mainly with properties at the Arabian Ranches. I asked if the buyers were mainly cash buyers and investors and she said that she has a lot of clients getting mortgages. She reckons if the interest rate came down to 6% more buyers would come into the market. Properties are going cheap but she says there's a lot of sales and it's busy in the land department. I know her pretty well so she wasn't just trying to talk the market up to me.


----------



## titemeuf

Hi,
We have a unit in Summer and a mortagage with DIB, and about to request the cancellation to DIB.
Anyone else who went throught this ?
Thanx


----------



## Abu Ahmad

TerryPop said:


> Hi Abu,
> 
> Have a look around as there are other areas offering this type of rent to own plan.
> 
> I can see its attractive as you by-pass the need for banks.
> 
> I have heard Tecom has good facilities like gyms and pools in comparison to say discovery gardens.
> 
> But location location location is the buyers mantra- so perhaps google "rent to own" dubai and see if you get alternatives OR be happy with the area and location that Tecom is in.
> 
> Just my 2 cent 0.50 fils


Thanks Terry and to all for their opinions and advice, it is much appreciated


----------



## shagdash

Am just wondering if Tecom is a freehold zone? Always thought it was a 99 year lease only area.


----------



## ibn frederick

Are any banks lending on office or retail property??


----------



## unknownpleasures

Why not invest somewhere in a safe country instead! Like your own! Completed and nothing off plan is the way to go! No good going off any brochures you have to see it to believe it also!


----------



## Pleth

Philippa C said:


> I don't understand why if the number of projects that have been cancelled seems to be going up the number of units to be delivered over the next 2 years stays more or less the same. Maybe noone really knows what's going on.


Because RERA haven't cancelled anything yet. 
They say one thing and do another!
And if they do cancel they will keep it a secret. :bash:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I see Dorra Bay 2 beds available for less than AED 796 sq ft now :nuts:

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

I can understand this price in an off-plan unit but not a mature handed over and snagged unit in the chic end?


----------



## 234sale

^^

And the Toch for 751 aed sqft

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...ds=torch&is_basic_search_widget=1&price__lte=


With reduced demand, Dubai we might have a problem..

But saying that I'd rather be in Dubai than snowed in, here in the UK..


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yes but Torch is not complete for 6 months so understandable. Not the case for Dorra Bay. Also many can't make final payments or sustain LPP payments without rent so want out quickly/cheaply.

I tend to agree with the valuation formula posted here earlier.
Price = (net rent/6) *100

eg. Torch 2 bed with good marina view price at handover - rent 95k, maintenance 23k, net rent = 72k.
Therefore price valuation = AED 1.2m (AED 938 sq ft)


----------



## 234sale

Think the issue is mortgages are still impossible to get. 

You think how many Billions of AED are need over the next to finanve the existing developments coming to completion.

Win / Win Senarios need to be found.


----------



## TerryPop

ibn frederick said:


> Are any banks lending on office or retail property??



I saw an advert in Dubizzle saying that they could now get finance on commercial

Let me see if I can dig it up


----------



## TerryPop

TerryPop said:


> I saw an advert in Dubizzle saying that they could now get finance on commercial
> 
> Let me see if I can dig it up


http://dubai.dubizzle.com/discuss/property-discussions/8853/

I could have sworn the guy in the ad above had run something similar re commercial property.

The fact is tho, he is a broker so no idea and I can't really see anyway they could begin to value commercial or retail unless there are tenants in place.


----------



## 234sale

commercial or retail mortgages, not possible

I'm close friends with David Eddy,, this is what he had to say


> It's impossible...


google him if you need to.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

So only cash purchases or refinancing non UAE property are possibilites of getting cash to buy in Dubai. Not much chance of selling then and rental prices still going down due to not enough demand for all the property coming online over the next few years.

Seems like Dubai needs some quantitive easing, business growth and relaxed visa regulations.
Otherwise, throw everyone out and keep all the property for the emirates at very low rental prices.


----------



## TerryPop

^^

Thats what i've been saying and seeing.

Right now the only people in the market are the sharks- the shrewd and the savvy, looking to bag bargains.

If the market is restricted to such a small percentage of the potential buying population (95% of people I believe require some sort of mortgage to buy a home) it may not be the best time to sell.

Market is still absorbing current stock and to be fair it has had a hell of alot dumped on it in the last 12 months.

I'd sit it out- if you can- whats 24 months anyways.


----------



## ibn frederick

^^^thanks for the info. But banks must have a ton of repo property on there hands. They must be willing to let someone pick through the scraps re do and take over new payments?..no?


----------



## burntfingers

Have just had some news that the new building contractor for Lawns 4 (Due to start NOW) has run into financial problems, so is it back to square one again? ANY NEWS OUT THERE?


----------



## adam_uk

does anyone know whats happening with emirates city in ajaman will they ever build the whole project.


----------



## Pleth

adam_uk said:


> does anyone know whats happening with emirates city in ajaman will they ever build the whole project.


It is going well, but slowly. Did you invest in this?
If yes, I can take photos for you.


----------



## Spurs

I have just recieved a call from Arisrtocrat after 2 years of silence!! They want me to pay them more money :lol: As if I would ever trust these guys with any more of my hard earned cash hno:


----------



## whistler77

i got the information, that the license of define properties has been finished and the owner (RL ?) didn´t renew it again. does anybody knows something about that ? what´s about the installments ???


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> I see Dorra Bay 2 beds available for less than AED 796 sq ft now :nuts:
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=
> 
> I can understand this price in an off-plan unit but not a mature handed over and snagged unit in the chic end?


Wow! Couldn't view this ad yesterday for some reason, but looks a good buy for someone. Currently rented out at 120k. Could be an easy 10% ROI for a cash investor.

Nice find Steve, just a bit wary about the agents "Rehab Real Estate". Hope they are not junkies selling something dodgy (too good to be true). If it looks too good to be true, it normally is If they get 10 people to put down deposits, they will be quids in.:runaway:


----------



## unknownpleasures

Isn't there such a thing called gazumping! but then it's Dubai isn't it! everything goes here!

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/gazumping-arrives-in-dubai-1.340492

Are you serious when you say they can take 10 deposits and they are laughing all the way to the bank. Where the hell is the regulator? Fast asleep!


----------



## True Blue

I know someone who, about 3 years ago, wanted to buy an apartment through Better Homes. He signed an agreement and paid 10% deposit. The deal did not go through with him and it appears soemone else bought the apartment. He did not get his deposit back for 3 months. Looked like they were holding on to make sure the third party completed and he was being held as a standby.

Anyway, if it was a less scrupulous company they could have done a bunk with the deposit money.

Just as an aside, during the property boom there was £millions of money held on deposit by currency exchange companies like HiFX. I was one of those people who had forward purchased AED upto 2 years in advance. What I didn't realise was these companies were not regulated like banks and did not issue account statements as proof of the money you vested with them. Could have quite easily gone bust and left many property investors high and dry. I hear Select property have moved into this area now.:shifty:


----------



## Addel

*Dora Bay*

Watch for the trick in that Dorabay Dubizzle ad: the title states AED1,550,00 whereas in the body next to the photo it becomes 1,150,000 and this is where the 796 figure is calculated from..


----------



## shagdash

unknownpleasures said:


> Isn't there such a thing called gazumping! but then it's Dubai isn't it! everything goes here!
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/business/property/gazumping-arrives-in-dubai-1.340492
> 
> Are you serious when you say they can take 10 deposits and they are laughing all the way to the bank. Where the hell is the regulator? Fast asleep!


That article is from Dec 2004. I don't think sellers can afford to gazump in Dubai in today's market.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Yep and nothing has changed!! that's the example - far back as 2004!

Lets hope the regulator has some sort of conscience for the New Year!

Lots of unscrupulous happenings!

Merry Xmas to all..


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS...ters/businessNews+(News+/+US+/+Business+News)

Dubai ruler names Sheikh Ahmed Dubai World chairman

*

DUBAI | Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:51am EST

DUBAI (Reuters) - Dubai's ruler appointed a new board for Dubai World DBWLD.UL, the flagship conglomerate which struck a deal to restructure $25 billion in debt earlier, appointing his uncle and key adviser as chairman on Sunday.

The UAE's state news agency WAM said Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed al-Maktoum -- who spearheaded Dubai's attempts to recover from last year's crippling debt crisis as head of the Supreme Fiscal Committee (SFC) -- was appointed to the top spot.

Sheikh Ahmed is also chairman of Emirates airline and a top adviser to ruler Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum.

Other SFC members were also named to a new board of directors, including Mohammed al-Shaibani and Ahmed Humaid al-Tayer. Dubai finance director Abdulrahman al-Saleh is also a new director.

"The board's functions include approving plans to restructure (Dubai World) and its affiliates, as well as approving the draft annual budget and final accounts and adopting its administrative and financial systems and those of its subsidiaries, the adoption of financing and borrowing from financial institutions and providing them financial guarantees," said an official statement carried by WAM.

"The board is to also approve the sale and purchase and leasing of real estate, stocks, bonds and other securities and other property belonging to (Dubai World) or its affiliates."

Also on the board are Hamad Buamim, director general of Dubai Chamber of Commerce, and Soon Young Chang, an advisor to the Investment Corporation of Dubai.

State-owned Dubai World won creditor support from all its creditors in November for a $25 billion restructuring plan, one of the first major milestones in resolving the debt headache which has plagued the Gulf Arab emirate since last year.

In its debt deal, presented to creditors earlier this year and seen by Reuters, Dubai World had said there would be a new managing director and chief financial officer for the company, whose assets range from shipping to real estate. Sunday's announcement made no reference to this.

Observers were divided on Sunday about the ramifications of the reshuffle, with some viewing it as a confidence boosting move while others fretted it may signal more issues to come.

"If they put the heaviest hitters in Dubai on the board of the company that was successfully restructured, I sense they realize that the DW story is certainly not over yet," said a financial industry source, asking not to be identified.

Dubai World plans to sell its prized assets over a period of eight years to generate as much as $19.4 billion to pay off creditors, according to the restructuring proposal document obtained by Reuters.

It said in the document asset disposals over an eight-year period will help generate up to a maximum of $19.4 billion, while similar sales based on current prices would be worth a maximum of $10.4 billion.

"The appointment of Sheikh Ahmed is indeed significant and consistent with the ongoing reorganization of the management team of Dubai Inc," said Chavan Bhogaita, head of credit research at National Bank of Abu Dhabi.

"In my view the appointment is likely to be received positively by the investor community," Bhogaita added.

Haissam Arabi, chief executive and fund manager at Gulfmena Alternative Investments, said: "This is very good news, not only because of Sheikh Ahmed's track record at Emirates group, but also as a statement from the government."

"The fact is Sheikh Ahmed is very good for Dubai World's restructuring plan and will give more confidence to creditors that the government is very serious about fulfilling the obligations of the restructuring."

(Reporting by Raissa Kasolowsky; Additional reporting by Rachna Uppal, Firouz Sedarat, and Matt Smith; Writing by Amran Abocar; Editing by Louise Heavens)


----------



## Wac

I visited DEC office today. Since I have paid 75% of my flat in Lawns II, I asked for refund of additional money than 35% (required at shoring stage). The person agreed with my claim but told me that they cannot refund money since the money is in the escrow account and advised me to go to Dubai Land Department for claim and this could require some legal assistance. Can someone advise on this?


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> I see Dorra Bay 2 beds available for less than AED 796 sq ft now :nuts:
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=
> 
> I can understand this price in an off-plan unit but not a mature handed over and snagged unit in the chic end?





234sale said:


> ^^
> 
> And the Toch for 751 aed sqft
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...ds=torch&is_basic_search_widget=1&price__lte=
> 
> 
> With reduced demand, Dubai we might have a problem..
> 
> But saying that I'd rather be in Dubai than snowed in, here in the UK..





Addel said:


> Watch for the trick in that Dorabay Dubizzle ad: the title states AED1,550,00 whereas in the body next to the photo it becomes 1,150,000 and this is where the 796 figure is calculated from..


^^Well spotted:applause: 

Like I said, if it seems too good to be true.......:lol:

The Torch apartment is still only 750AED/ft.................Chic end winskay:

Nothing like a bit of friendly rivalry:laugh:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Apartment price drop in Dubai slows*

From October to last month, sale prices for apartments of more than 100 square meters slid about 2.3 per cent, according to data tracked by REIDIN.com.

Apartments from 101 sq metres to 150 sq metres were selling for 6.3 per cent less than in November last year, while apartments larger than 151 sq metres were priced 7.9 per cent lower, the research firm said.

Prices for apartments of less than 50 sq metres were down 17.5 per cent from a year earlier but declined only 0.10 per cent from October to last month, according to REIDIN, which uses transaction data from the Real Estate Regulatory Agency. Prices for apartments of 51 sq metres to 100 sq metres increased 0.11 per cent.

"Prices are more or less settled," said Ahmet Kayhan, the chief executive of REIDIN.com.

Apartment prices overall dropped 7 per cent from the second quarter to the third quarter, according to data from the property brokerage Colliers International, one of several companies tracking apartment prices in Dubai.

"When you look at apartments, you need to look at areas and quality of the stock," said Catherine Clarke, the director of residential valuations for Colliers International's UAE office.

"In areas where the banks are lending, there seems to be a certain amount of stabilisation."

Jonathan Fothergill, the director of UAE valuations for Cluttons Middle East, said that while prices were continuing to decline, the slippage was "at a much slower rate".

http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/apartment-price-drop-in-dubai-slows


----------



## Dubai_Steve

A christmas present for you


----------



## bizzybonita

*Definitely*

Dubai property prices may fall for two more years












Dubai property prices may drop for the next two years, extending a decline in the emirate that’s already cut values by more than 60 percent since the 2008 peak.
Residential values may fall as much as 20 percent more by the end of 2012 if new homes are built as planned, according to broker Landmark Advisory in Dubai.
Cluttons, a London-based property consultant, and Jones Lang LaSalle, the second- largest publicly traded commercial property broker, also forecast further declines.
About 48,000 homes will come on to the market in the next two years, or about 12 percent of existing supply, according to Jesse Downs, director of research at Landmark. An influx of foreign buyers sparked a construction boom as prices rose by 79 percent to mid-2008 from 2007 before the financial crisis caused lenders to tighten credit and speculators left the market.

“There is still no parity between supply and demand,” said Paul Richard, associate director at Cluttons in Dubai, which estimates that 35,000 homes will be completed through 2012. “You’re looking at a good two years” for Dubai’s market to reach bottom, he said.

Craig Plumb, head of Middle East research at Jones Lang, said prices are still falling and the rate and duration of the decline will depend on the type of property. Hotels will recover first and commercial properties last, he said.

Emaar Properties, Dubai’s biggest developer and the builder of the world’s tallest tower, reported a seven percent drop in third-quarter profit, missing analyst estimates, as costs and writedowns increased.
Construction firm Arabtec Holding saw earnings slump 96 percent, while apartment and office builder Deyaar Development PJSC reported a loss. Home prices fell six percent in the quarter from the previous three months, Colliers International said on November 7.

Almost half of Dubai’s planned real estate projects, from offices to villas, were cancelled as buyers defaulted and access to funding became harder. Residents who lost their jobs had to leave the country within 30 days, causing many to abandon their cars and mortgages.

Emaar chairman Mohamed Alabbar said last month that Dubai’s market has bottomed out “without a doubt,” and “not much” new housing supply is coming on the market.
Predictions of an end to the slump have proven overly optimistic in the past. In May 2009, Markus Giebel, then the chief executive officer of Deyaar, said the property market would bottom out that year. In the same month, Landmark Advisory said home values may stop sliding in the fourth quarter of 2009.

“Without an influx of demand from outside the country, forget about it,” Cluttons’s Richard said. He estimates that home prices will drop five percent to ten percent by next summer.

Attracting foreigners became more challenging after the government changed residency rules last year. From 2002, property ownership qualified the buyer for a five-year residency visa that was easily renewed. That changed in May 2009, when new United Arab Emirates regulations cut the length of residency visas to six months and required holders to leave the country and return for renewals, paying AED2,000 ($546) per visa each time.

The law also says a property must be worth at least AED1m and be large enough to accommodate the number of people granted residency as a result. In addition, it requires the buyer to have monthly income of no less than AED10,000 as well as medical insurance.

“The visa rules have been highly damaging and definitely shattered people’s confidence,” said Ludmila Yamalova, a partner at law firm HPL Yamalova & Plewka JLT. “Many bought property just because that would enable them to live here. They had their five-year residency and built their lives around it. Now they don’t have that security.”
Service fees charged by developers for maintenance of common areas such as pools and gyms have discouraged potential buyers interested in generating rental income, Cluttons’s Richard said. The fees can cut a landlord’s return by almost half.

Landmark Advisory’s Downs said new properties will drive down rents, pushing values lower.

“Rents are very important because occupier demand leads investor demand,” she said in an interview.

Downs predicts home prices will drop 15 percent to 20 percent by 2012 if the most residential buildings currently under construction go onto the market as scheduled.

“If the pipeline is delayed, that will only prolong the cycle,” she said. Properties won’t see renewed demand “until prices come down further and buyers have greater certainty over long-term rent yields.”

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-property-prices-may-fall-for-two-more-years-367539.html


----------



## bizzybonita

Burj Khalifa flat advertised for daily rent
:yes:


A Dubai website is advertising stays in a one-bedroom Burj Khalifa apartment for as little as a one night stretch.

The mydubaistay.com site says the signature apartment on the 19th floor of the world’s tallest tower is available from $286 per night, and can sleep up to four people.

When contacted by Arabian Business, an official at mydubaistay.com said that the apartment had only recently been put up for rent, and that it was the only one of its kind on their books. He declined to reveal the identity of the landlord.

Demand for the flat appears to be healthy; it has already been booked for a week over the New Year period. There are no discounts for long stays.

Rates at the luxury development have tumbled in the wake of Dubai’s real estate crash, which saw price declines of more than 50 percent.

In November, it was reported that rental rates at the Burj Khalifa had plummeted by nearly 40 percent and that about 825 of the tower’s 900 apartments remained vacant.

Emaar, the developer behind the world’s tallest tower, claimed 90 percent of the 900 luxury apartments had been sold before the Burj Khalifa’s glittering launch in January.

Laura Adams, manager for residential sales and leasing at Dubai-based real estate broker Better Homes, said that the asking price for flats in the development remained high.

“We still have a healthy stock of apartments available for sale, however, only a few at reasonable market rate,” she told Arabian Business.

“While we have heard of daily rental rates being charged, it is not something offered through Better Homes. We’re unsure how this would feasibly work considering the level of tight security for the movement of Burj Khalifa guests and tenants. “

In addition to its standard apartments, the tower also houses 144 Armani-branded residences, 37 floors of office space and the 160-room Armani Hotel.

In November, Arabian Business reported that room rates at the hotel, which occupies the first six floors of the Burj Khalifa, were trading at 40 percent down from the published rates at launch.

Guests rooms were available for AED2,400 ($653) a night, compared to a rate card price of AED4,000 at the end of April.

The cost of a two bedroom suite, originally priced at AED40,000, had declined to AED24,000, according to the hotel’s reservations desk.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/burj-khalifa-flat-advertised-for-daily-rent-367413.html


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai property values slide 3.2% in November


House prices in Dubai still do not appear to have found a bottom, according to the latest November research from REIDIN.com.

The research agency has said that overall residential sales prices were down by a nominal 3.2 percent month-on-month in November.

Apartment prices dropped by 1.12 percent, while villa prices dropped by 0.81 percent.

On a year-on-year basis, values dropped by just under 14 percent since November 2009.

The news is especially disappointing given REIDIN.com’s October figures, which showed that the cost of villas had actually risen fractionally by 0.04 percent.

The only area of the property market to see an increase in value was the 51-100 square metre segment, which rose by a nominal 0.11 percent in November.

Prices in the largest apartments dropped by around a nominal 2.3 percent in November, while the smallest apartments saw values sink by 0.10 percent.

The firm’s research covers “about seven citywide indices and a total of 19 district and project-based indices” to provide accurate sampling of the Dubai housing market.

Earlier this month, several real estate agencies warned that prices could keep on falling for another two years.

Landmark Advisory warned that residential values may fall by as much as 20 percent more by the end of 2012 if the planned pipeline of new homes are brought online.

In general, the outlook for Dubai in 2011 will remain mixed, experts say.
Jonathan Fothergill, director of UAE valuations at Cluttons, said that while prices would continue to decline next year, this would happen at a much slower rate, and that a key factor would be those properties that are well located and well maintained.

“Rates of high-end or prime units, such as the Palm Jumeirah villas…still hold value and there won’t be much drop for these properties,” he told Arabian Business.

“But the rate of decline for properties that are not well located or have poor finishes will be much higher – for example, International City cluster units, some Silicon City Oasis units, and those Jumeirah Lakes Towers and Dubai Marina units with a poor finish.”

A senior consultant at Colliers International said that the Dubai areas that would be least affected would be those projects where mortgage finance is available.

The villas sectors continues to be the best performer,” said the agency’s Saadallah Al Abed. “The high level of demand for this segments, compared to apartments, is encouraging banks or financial institutions to offer more mortgage finance on this segment, increasing demand even further.” 

“Generally, projects developed by Emaar Properties are seeing the greatest interest as they are perceived to be of a better value and higher quality. In addition we see good interest in the Palm Jumeirah area,” Al Abed added.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-property-values-slide-3-2-in-november-369089.html


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> A christmas present for you


Love it!!:lol:

Merry christmas to everyone and a Happy New Year when it comes.kay:


----------



## gerald.d

Is there a thread for The Fountain Views? Massive billboard just gone up very recently (I only noticed it for the first time yesterday evening).

http://thefountainviews.com/2DMap.html

First "new" development marketing I've seen for a long, long time.


----------



## IISinbadII

Hi, 

Is UAE issuing *Property based Residency Visas*. If so what are the requirements and restrictions. Any web-site that has details?

Thanks


----------



## Hanna

*Visitors to UAE must stay out for one month to apply for new visa*

Tourist permits can be extended for 30 days without leaving country

Dubai: Visitors to the UAE must stay one month outside the country before they can apply for another visit visa, said senior official from Ministry of Interior.

Major General Mohammad Ahmad Al Merri, Director General of the Dubai Residency and Foreigners Affairs Department, told Gulf News that there are no changes in the rules for visit visas. 

"People who entered the country on a visit visa and wanted a fresh visa must leave the country for one month before they can apply for another visit visa," said Major General Al Merri.

Rumours

Major General Al Merri denied rumours that people who entered the country on visit visas must stay outside the country for three months before they can apply for another visit visa. Major General Al Merri said that there are two categories of visit visa — three-month duration and one-month duration. People have to leave the country for one month before applying for new visit visas.

Major General Al Merri said that people can also apply for a tourist visa which is valid for one month and can be extended for another month without leaving the country.




:cheers:











IISinbadII said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is UAE issuing *Property based Residency Visas*. If so what are the requirements and restrictions. Any web-site that has details?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## dxbgunner

*2br in jlt*

hi dont know if this is the appropriate place admin/mod please move to the right section

i am looking for a 2br flat in jlt or other area close by...my budget is 60k tops

please drop me a line admin at negosyopilipinas dot com

thanks


----------



## yesramkumar

*Update from Mazaya*

Dear All,
I received the below mentioned FAX from Mazaya yesterday. As expected they have used the clause 'Force Majeure' for the delay. This is not addressed to me and looks like a general letter for all Queue point customers.


----------



## Sukhi

Hello Queuepointers,

Mr. Yesramkumar, thank you for showing us the fax above. This is really a big setback for me. I think we should ask for some kind of penalty / discount on the purchase price (which has gone down by 35% at least) for causing this delay. I am sure we will not get the key until Dec. 2011. But in this fax there is no clue if RERA is OK with this delay without any penalty charges. 

I agree with julienemtzek on getting some kind of reimbursement from MAZAYA. The payment plan with 20% hike sent to me was also in arabic but on RERA letter head. I think we should decide on a few options jointly to fight for at RERA. My two suggested options are as follows:

option1: Get some penalty or 30% Discount on the purchase price

option2: Go back to the payment plan before the 20% hike against construction %

Please give your inputs and options as well.. thanks

Regards


----------



## yesramkumar

The same letter i got again by Aramex courier today. Mazaya has not taken any commitments on delivery of the properties. The words Mazaya is using here is " ...handing over the units shall occur during 2011." Which means, they will try to give delivery in 2011. 
We all need to join together and do something.
In the Villa project of Mazaya, few owners join together and fought against Mazaya to get a small compensation for reduction in size of the villas. Number of owners in Queue point project is much higher than Villa project. So we can get atleast some compensation from them.


----------



## HPDubai

There is no such thing as a Property based residency visa ! What is available is a 6 month multiple entry visa for property owners. This visa however gives you no right to a residency card. In other words: you cannot buy a car, cannot open a PO box, cannot get a credit card, cannot have a post paid mobile etc. So this visa is in fact useless.


----------



## True Blue

As property owners can not have a PO box without a residency visa, does anyone know of any company which provides mail forwarding or mail holding for expats that do not live in Dubai?


----------



## liwanowner

Dear all, I confirmed by checking my email that the new payment plan is on RERA letter and head and not Mazaya so it is indeed endorsed by them. Also, at least for R004, the new delivery date on this new payment plan has been specified as 4th July 2011.

I have not so far received this letter from Mazaya, but I assume it must be on its away and yes, it is a serious blow to our efforts. I also highly doubt that Mazaya will be able to deliver in 2011 at all (at least not my apartment). In Oct the project was at 50% and in Nov (as per the update I received today) it is at 52%!!! So, very, very, very unlikely to even be ready for possession before December 2011. The progress is extremely, extremely slow.

I am in favour of getting together and complaining to RERA. I think both of the options suggested above are sensible - either we get a discount or the payment plan goes back to being linked to milestones. The problem is, this has to be unanimous. We need almost all Liwan investors to agree to this. Remember, in this case there is strength in numbers and we are still very few (I suspect most investors either bailed out or are no longer in the country).

Thoughts welcome...


----------



## 974agk

Trueblue

I use the following company http://www.exclusiveuae.com ,who drop my mail in the appartment but I'm sure they would forward it back to UK for you.

Cheers
Eck


----------



## Hanna

*There is no such thing as a Property based residency visa*

Hi


All they want is bankrupt landlords and transients passing through with
no rights for nothing.All was going well till the world went bust and Dubai
was selling everything they could build.Now no one would buy a second 
hand tent there because of the visa laws and all the shady builders and
Dubai waiting for there next hand-out any time soon.

The rents will get to a level it will not be worth the time or effort, add sky
high maintenance charges and all the rest of the add-ons who in there right
mind would invest there.The law can change on a daily basis and sometimes 
does you would have to certified insane to invest a Dirham there at present
or the future.A lot of people believed Dubai was going to be fair and just for 
one time in there history what a lie that was.






:cheers:




HPDubai said:


> There is no such thing as a Property based residency visa ! What is available is a 6 month multiple entry visa for property owners. This visa however gives you no right to a residency card. In other words: you cannot buy a car, cannot open a PO box, cannot get a credit card, cannot have a post paid mobile etc. So this visa is in fact useless.


----------



## worried4

*Residency Visa*



HPDubai said:


> There is no such thing as a Property based residency visa ! What is available is a 6 month multiple entry visa for property owners. This visa however gives you no right to a residency card. In other words: you cannot buy a car, cannot open a PO box, cannot get a credit card, cannot have a post paid mobile etc. So this visa is in fact useless.


In India this is called an OCI card. Though you can stay forever in India, otherwise it is the same as the Dubai Visa you talk about


----------



## unknownpleasures

Hanna said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> All they want is bankrupt landlords and transients passing through with
> no rights for nothing.All was going well till the world went bust and Dubai
> was selling everything they could build.Now no one would buy a second
> hand tent there because of the visa laws and all the shady builders and
> Dubai waiting for there next hand-out any time soon.
> 
> The rents will get to a level it will not be worth the time or effort, add sky
> high maintenance charges and all the rest of the add-ons who in there right
> mind would invest there.The law can change on a daily basis and sometimes
> does you would have to certified insane to invest a Dirham there at present
> or the future.A lot of people believed Dubai was going to be fair and just for
> one time in there history what a lie that was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:


^^^^
Concur...you've made my day! Agree with everything you have to say...thank goodness someone hasn't got their rose colored glassed on! In complete contrast to the above you get all types telling you not to be negative about projects that have been placed on hold for years and years with no confirmed completion date!!...yet what is there positive to talk about when you know people are financially hurting! I'm still kind of confused why people are in dreamland like all is okay! They all appear happy here to wait years with their monies tied up! How goofy is all that you have to ask yourself and I have! I find it very hard to believe that some people are so forgiving when they have handed over big dollars and are being ripped off! I'm still scratching my head in disbelief!

I often wandered about an old saying I often heard very wise people say long when I was a nipper - they used to say an Arab could sell you anything and as it happens they have...Thousands bought in droves and what have they got for their money?? - sand and nothing else!! - that old saying meant something I guess! :lol::lol::lol: - just beggars belief...just cannot believe the mess it all is!



Happy New Year to all!


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai real estate !*

Hi 


I am glad to have made your day 

I like to tell how I see it I could be wrong !

I think it has been one big Ponzi scheme from the get go and we were all suckered in by the Dubai play makers.

I wish you all the best for 2011 from Bonnie Scotland.




:cheers:
















unknownpleasures said:


> ^^^^
> Concur...you've made my day! Agree with everything you have to say...thank goodness someone hasn't got their rose colored glassed on! In complete contrast to the above you get all types telling you not to be negative about projects that have been placed on hold for years and years with no confirmed completion date!!...yet what is there positive to talk about when you know people are financially hurting! I'm still kind of confused why people are in dreamland like all is okay! They all appear happy here to wait years with their monies tied up! How goofy is all that you have to ask yourself and I have! I find it very hard to believe that some people are so forgiving when they have handed over big dollars and are being ripped off! I'm still scratching my head in disbelief!
> 
> I often wandered about an old saying I often heard very wise people say long when I was a nipper - they used to say an Arab could sell you anything and as it happens they have...Thousands bought in droves and what have they got for their money?? - sand and nothing else!! - that old saying meant something I guess! :lol::lol::lol: - just beggars belief...just cannot believe the mess it all is!
> 
> 
> 
> Happy New Year to all!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Hanna said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> I am glad to have made your day
> 
> I like to tell how I see it I could be wrong !
> 
> I think it has been one big Ponzi scheme from the get go and we were all suckered in by the Dubai play makers.
> 
> I wish you all the best for 2011 from Bonnie Scotland.
> 
> 
> :cheers:


^^^^
Hi there,

Believe me you have! 

I know someone who found an article about all of this and a comment relating to it being a "ponzi scheme"...how bizarre, great minds think alike!..

My Irish friend is on the ground there and they know it's a big mess, he knows exactly what has gone on! People were surely suckered in! But who thought it would be the case! Yet it has been!

Greetings my friend from afar! Must be freezing there....All the best to you too...


----------



## Manjit Singh

I was told by Al Manal that they are procedding with T-1/2/3 only and T4 & 5 will be on hold. They will accomodate T4 &5 clients in other towers. Will they be charging us at the same rate for the balance amount as paying the balance is as good as getting ready to move property in view of the current properety rates. Any views?


----------



## Richard Head

Could you two please get a room. Or hold hands and go and see a therapist about that negativity you love to share. They might even throw in some lessons in elementary English.


----------



## Hanna

*Our one and only Dick !*

And a Happy New year to you Dick Head !



:cheers:











Richard Head said:


> Could you two please get a room. Or hold hands and go and see a therapist about that negativity you love to share. They might even throw in some lessons in elementary English.


----------



## Hanna

*New twist in property investor's suit*

A judge has ruled part of an investor's lawsuit filed against the Dubai developer Damac Properties may be heard by the Dubai International Financial Center (DIFC) Courts.

Lothar Hardt's closely watched suit against the developer is believed to be the largest filed against a developer in the emirate."I think this is very important for Dubai …" Mr Hardt said yesterday. "So far everything has been left in the dark."Mr Hardt claims he invested US$9.7 million (Dh35.6m) in five Damac projects: Park Towers at the DIFC; Water's Edge and Lotus Residences at Business Bay; Wildflower at Jumeirah Golf Estates; and Ocean Heights at Dubai Marina.
His suit charges the developer with a range of alleged infractions including failing to deliver the projects on time, mismanaging escrow accounts and failing to register transactions with Dubai's Land Department.
One of the developments, Lotus Residences, was built on land controlled by the UN, he alleges.Mr Hardt, who was listed as a Damac "VIP investor", is asking for the return of his $9.7m as well as damages and lost profits. A Damac spokesman declined to comment.Mr Hardt's lawyer, Ludmila Yamalova of HPL Yamalova & Plewka, believes her client will get a better hearing from the DIFC Courts than from Dubai courts. The DIFC Courts follow English common law and allow foreign lawyers to represent clients in English. Although it is registered in the DIFC, Damac argued the DIFC Courts are not the proper venue to hear the case. This year a judge agreed with Damac, rejecting the case on the grounds that the DIFC Courts does not have jurisdiction. But the new ruling seems to open the door for the DIFC Courts to hear at least part of the claim, specifically the issues involving Park Towers, which is part of the DIFC. "As to Park Towers, the claim as advanced does, on its face, allege facts which might be the basis of an argument that at least some loss and damage had been sustained by the claimants within the DIFC," the deputy chief justice Sir Anthony Colman wrote in his decision.If the case goes ahead, it could be the first large property case heard by the courts. "The significance of the decision is that the DIFC seems more open to hearing real estate cases, at least related to the DIFC," Ms Yamalova said.The next step is to file "an amended complaint pursuant to the judge's instructions", she said.Mr Hardt has vowed to press his complaint against the developer. He hopes the DIFC Courts may decide his case within the next year.The latest decision is consistent with "the new transparency" in Dubai, Mr Hardt said. "I think Dubai is on the right path and this can be discussed in the open."


----------



## ummbutti

Any one know the mobile number of Mr. Dheeraj Wadhawan, Director, Dheeraj East Coast Company?
Please PM me if Possible.


----------



## vaksa

Dubai Police chief warns of expats' threat to Gulf identity

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/bahra...ns-of-expats-threat-to-gulf-identity-1.736096

...............
"The possibility of GCC nationals turning into a minority in their own countries cannot be ruled out if a law is, for instance, promulgated and enforced to naturalise expatriates," Lieutenant-Colonel Dahi Khalfan said.
………….
If the GCC governments do not take "bold steps" to check the inflow of foreign workforce, a day could come when locals would be marginalised in their own countries and become like Red Indians in the US, Dahi said.
…………..
However, when asked if the problem could be tackled to some extent if more workers were brought in from Arab countries, Dahi said: "I do agree that they (Arab expatriates) are better than non-Arabs."


----------



## noir-dresses

Well the light at the end of the tunnel every investor is expecting could just turn out to be an on coming train. 

Remark's like that really make investor's feel confident.


----------



## True Blue

vaksa said:


> Dubai Police chief warns of expats' threat to Gulf identity
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/bahra...ns-of-expats-threat-to-gulf-identity-1.736096
> 
> ...............
> "The possibility of GCC nationals turning into a minority in their own countries cannot be ruled out if a law is, for instance, promulgated and enforced to naturalise expatriates," Lieutenant-Colonel Dahi Khalfan said.
> ………….
> If the GCC governments do not take "bold steps" to check the inflow of foreign workforce, a day could come when locals would be marginalised in their own countries and become like Red Indians in the US, Dahi said.
> …………..
> However, when asked if the problem could be tackled to some extent if more workers were brought in from Arab countries, Dahi said: "I do agree that they (Arab expatriates) are better than non-Arabs."




^^Or like the Scottish in the United Kingdom, an ethnic minority in their own country! 

=================================================================== 

I don't agree with most of the negativity expressed here. It is normal for people who have invested and lost to feel agrieved, but all forms of investment attract risk. The more the potential for gain the higher the risk.

What we are witnessing is Dubai starting to take control of it's own destiny. The visa rules are unpalletable but necessary to control it's borders and help generate a healthy economy. I expect the rules will be adapted to fine tune the types of expats that are permitted to live and "operate" in the emirate. The previous system of property visas attracted many of the criminal fraternity to Dubai and that was the reason why it had to be withdrawn. Spain was no longer a safe haven for them and they seemed to think Dubai was the perfect location to operate below the radar.

Things are definately on the turn for the better now although it will take many more years to start to function as it was first intended. Business growth and attraction needs to be a priority and from these seeds will grow the demand for the multitude of empty properties which will be available in abundance in the coming years.

Infrastructure is available to cope with population growth so Dubai needs to maintain it's impetus on travel and tourism and especialy the leisure sector to serve both residents and tourists alike. The emirate and it's leaders had a vision, that vision needs continuing attention, re structuring and nurturing to acheive part of it's goals. It may not be on track but it is heading in the right direction again. 

In any path of life we may wish to choose there will be both winners and losers, not everyone can be a winner. There is no such thing as a safe investment, ask those who avoided the property markets and invested everything in BP shares in the hope of a low risk harbour for their pension fund.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Unfortunately I don't agree with everything you have to say...sure there is an element of risk but generally property isn't where you pay up front and get nothing in return! That my friend isn't how things should be! I could understand one developer running off and causing a problem but there are just too many here and they all have protection - as it was pointed out earlier...ponzi schemes like this will never work and people will lose monies...but then who thought this was a ponzi scheme when the govt guaranteed all was going to be safe - there is a contract and that contract should be honoured!

Shares are a different kettle of fish by the way! The two do not compute! Shares will always be risky and people will lose out big time and know that up front and people have lost big time...it's like gambling...property is not a gamble in that sense! 

Also the element of risk is greater when certain investors (flippers) purchased many apartments in either one complex or several in many other projects, this can then be seen as a much greater risk spending in excess of 9.7 billion in one case alone...however in many cases here they were only small investors who only purchased one unit and what did they get in return...losing all their hard earned savings they had saved for years for a unit they may wish to use or a small investment for themselves in retirement...some were retirees which means they have lost everything...many put their places up for sale thinking they would one day be in Dubai!...and there are those who are paying interest on mortgages they took out for a loan on a unit they will never see! 

People were informed that approvals had already been provided at the time purchase occurred, all was ready to go ahead with construction in 2007 but that wasn't the case!...instead in many instances (excuses were provide first it was checking the soil...how long does it take to do that? - it was the excuse used first )what did occur there was no approval and the developer followed no rule of law including the law of escrow accounts! The money was spent on advertising, wages, running costs and the purchase of land...something again which was never provided as being the case to the investor at the time of purchase as many did ask and were advised that all was safe including escrow...in most instances investors were informed (that I am aware of) that the land had already been purchased and construction was approved and all was reay to go ahead, all approvals had the go ahead! The problem here is the RERA had control of this and did nothing! Then there were the contractors...one leaving and then another etc etc...the saga just continued...The recent excuse used by all developers is force majeure!

We have to be realistic here and people were conned! Sorry but that's what has occurred in many instances...those who have lost big time are not the ones who were flipping but believed in the honesty of the system and a written contract...the contracts are not worth the paper they are written on! It is one unregulated mess! The only ones that have been fortunate enough are those who purchased completed units and homes...anything off plan was worth nothing and simply investors in many cases were conned! The GFC wasn't even around when many purchased around the middle of 2007 but the escrow law was definitely official and was required to be adhered to and wasn't! The money was virtually squandered!


----------



## Richard Head

vaksa said:


> "The possibility of GCC nationals turning into a minority in their own countries cannot be ruled out........


:wtf:

Dude needs to get a dictionary and look up "minority". That line was probably crossed in the UAE 25 years ago or so.


----------



## noir-dresses

vaksa said:


> Dubai Police chief warns of expats' threat to Gulf identity
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/bahra...ns-of-expats-threat-to-gulf-identity-1.736096
> 
> However, when asked if the problem could be tackled to some extent if more workers were brought in from Arab countries, Dahi said: "I do agree that they (Arab expatriates) are better than non-Arabs."


This line take's the cake, and a little radical if you ask me.

Why can't people just learn to live together, and be happy ?


----------



## Hanna

*Canadians to be charged hefty fees for visas to enter UAE*

Move follows refusal of more Emirates, Etihad flights to Canada

Dubai: Relations continue to sour between the UAE and Canada regarding Ottawa's refusal to expand landing rights to Etihad and Emirates airlines as new UAE visa rules hit Canadian travelers in the wallet this weekend.

Canada's Conservative government is under fire from Liberal Opposition critics on home soil after the UAE Embassy in Ottawa announced new visa charges of up to C$1,000 (Dh3,660) for Canadian visitors to the UAE.

Formerly free for Canadians, UAE visas must now be paid and applied for in writing to the UAE Embassy in Ottawa two weeks in advance of entering the UAE.

The new paid visas are mandatory effective January 2.

"The complete visa application needs to be sent to the UAE Embassy 15 working days before the departure date," the embassy said in its requirements, posted on Tuesday.

The UAE Embassy noted that a "short-term visa" will cost C$250 and would be valid for 30 days, a long-term visa for three months would cost C$500 and a six-month multiple-entry visa will set travelers back C$1,000.
Requiring an approved UAE visa in advance of arrival is a radical departure from the time when Canadians were granted visas upon arrival at Dubai and Abu Dhabi international airports.
The new rules won't necessarily affect a large portion of the roughly 25,000 Canadians who live and work in the UAE because many already possess residence permits.

Damaging strong ties

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper is being accused of damaging formerly strong ties with an important Middle East ally by refusing additional landing rights for the UAE's two major airlines, Emirates and Etihad.

The airlines asked for more than the current six flights a week to Canada but were rejected.In a previous statement, Abdullah Al Gafi, UAE Ambassador to Canada, said failure to reach a new agreement "undoubtedly affects the bilateral statement".Al Gafi said the UAE was Canada's largest trading partner in the Middle East "with bilateral trade figures of over $1.5 billion, of which 95 per cent is Canadian exports".

Ralph Goodale, Deputy Liberal Leader, attacked Harper's foreign policy in a Toronto Star news report yesterday, noting that taxpayers and the business community, not Conservative policymakers, would foot the bill for Canada's hard line stand.

"The cost of this is going right into the pocketbooks of individual Canadians and companies that make visits to and do business in the UAE," Goodale said.

"It's obvious that stupidity and incompetence extracts a cost, and it's a cost this is coming home to individual Canadians."

Liberal Foreign Affairs critic Bob Rae couldn't be reached for comment by Gulf News at his Canadian offices yesterday.Rae, however, has been highly critical of Canada's decision not to open up its national airspace for more flights from the UAE.Rae recently rebuked Harper when it was learned that the UAE ordered Canadian forces out of their Camp Mirage base near Dubai, an essential layover for Canadian supply flights to support efforts in Afghanistan.

The Canadian Embassy in Abu Dhabi couldn't be reached by Gulf News yesterday for comment.

NEW RULES

To apply for a visa to the UAE Embassy in Canada, multiple entry visas cost C$1,000, valid for six months for up to 14 days for each visit. A long-term visa costs C$500, valid for three months, which is not renewable. A short-term visa costs C$250, valid for 30 days, and is not renewable.

:bash:


----------



## evany

happy new year


----------



## Hanna

*Dubai residents face additional utility costs in the New Year*

Dubai residents face additional utility costs in the New Year

Water, electricity charges and fuel costs set to increase



* The additional fuel surcharge will be shown separately in electricity and water consumption bills.
* Image Credit: X press /Megan Hirons Mahon

Dubai: Revised form of water and electricity bills, as well as an additional fuel surcharge will be added to Dubai residents statements starting from tomorrow.

The Supreme Council of Energy in Dubai announced a 15 per cent increase in water and electricity tariff on the minimal consumption is due to ongoing increase in fuel and gas prices on the global level.

The additional fuel surcharge will be shown separately in electricity and water consumption bills. This value added is to show the cost of the fuel used in the water and electricity consumption. It would be fluctuated according to the fuel price globally.

DEWA said, it considered this increase as "reasonable and quite moderate" as the consumption tariff and slab system not been reviewed since March 2008.

The move, as disclosed by Dubai Supreme Council for Energy, comes in line with Dubai Government's integrated energy strategy which seeks to diversify the sources of energy, mainly relying on gas for power generation and water desalination units and manage utility cost in future.

Tariff

The rates for water consumption for residential sector for non-national will be increased from 3 fils to 3.5 fils per gallon up to the consumption of 6,000 gallons, and from 3.5 fils to 4 fils per gallon for above 6,000 gallons and up to 12,000 gallons, and from 4 fils to 4.6 fils per gallon for usage above this level every month.

As for the commercial, industrial and governmental consumption and the like, the tariff per gallon has been increased from 3 fils/Gallon to 3,5 fils/Gallon up to the consumption of 10,000 Gallon, and from 3,5 fils per gallon to 4 fils per gallon for the consumption between 10,000 gallons and up to 20,000 gallons, and from 4 fils per gallon to 4.6 fils per gallon for more than 20,000 gallons per month.

Regarding the residential and commercial use of electricity, the tariff has been moved from 20 fils/KWh to 23 fils/ KWh for the consumption up to 2000 KWh, and from 24 fils/ KWh to 28 fils/ KWh for above 2000 KWh and up to 4000 KWh, and from 28 fils/ KWh to 32 fils/ KWh for above 4000 KWh and up to 6000 KWh, and from 33 fils/ KWh to 38 fils/ KWh for above 6000 KWh per month, whereas the tariff of the industrial and governmental consumption and their like is from 20 fils/ KWh to 23 fils/KWh up to 10,000 KWh and from 33 fils/ KWh to 38 fils/KWh for above 10,000 KWh per month.


----------



## dubaiprojects

noir-dresses said:


> This line take's the cake, and a little radical if you ask me.
> 
> Why can't people just learn to live together, and be happy ?


I think if only Arab expats are allowed, chief should know that on the contrary to what he thinks will resolve, that will exponentially accelerate his opinion of fear.
Simply because nonarab-expats overall will always remain less possessive and rather submissive, but arabs in general do not take authority of other arabs, so imagine if the population of expats will be comprised of only arab-expats, i would not be surprised if they had already planned to topple the state.

If arabs could live to unite as one nation, they would not be in such a state as they are now, divided into smaller territories and satisfied with.....

Cheers


----------



## smussuw

noir-dresses said:


> This line take's the cake, and a little radical if you ask me.
> 
> Why can't people just learn to live together, and be happy ?


Simply because at the end of the day a certain life style will eventually dominate the other life style so what should people do to preserve their identity?


----------



## sidxb

I am so amused by reading such conspiracy theories :lol:



Hanna said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> All they want is bankrupt landlords and transients passing through with
> no rights for nothing.


Despite the negativity filled in you , did you ever wonder what does 'bankrupt landlords ' mean ? . Bankrupt landlords mean bad bank balance sheets and in UAE property market I believe local banks were the biggest lenders !



Hanna said:


> All was going well till the world went bust and Dubai
> was selling everything they could build.Now no one would buy a second
> hand tent there because of the visa laws and all the shady builders and
> Dubai waiting for there next hand-out any time soon.



I think you are negating your own hypothesis  . Things definitely went bad not primarily because original idea was flawed but because the world went bust. Still I think Dubai took great advantage of global property price boom to bring its infrastructure to next level.



Hanna said:


> The rents will get to a level it will not be worth the time or effort, add sky
> high maintenance charges and all the rest of the add-ons who in there right
> mind would invest there.... blah blah blah


I think you need to go though some book on economics 101. Once the rents get so low , there would not be any new projects . Immigrant and local population would continue to increase again bringing in shortage of apartments and upward trend. Its not some new theory I am giving here , but its an old understood 'thingy' called SUPPLY and DEMAND curves.


Its bad to view the world through rose colored glassed ( ?? whatever that meant ) but its worst to view the world through shit colored glasses  



:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

smussuw said:


> Simply because at the end of the day a certain life style will eventually dominate the other life style so what should people do to preserve their identity?


I'm still a strong believer that people in general have a lot more in common, than diffenence's.

Drawing a line in the sand, and dividing people is not the answer, especially when it come's from a public figure via the media. 

You must admit Smus our culture gave you some luxury when it come's to life style like electricity, mass amount's of drinking water, pluming, lighting, communication's, computer's/internet, radio, air conditioning, car's, plane's, radar, television, medicine, and the list goes on, and on. Could you imagine your life with out it now ?????? I'm sure your culture to gave us nice thing's as well.

A universal moral ethic is what I believe in to, not to the right, and not to the left, but rite down the center, would you agree ?


----------



## True Blue

I notice that Lloyds TSB International Bank are offering mortgages on certain Dubai property. Emaar and Nakheel are on the list of pre approved developers.

Bad news is the maximum loan to value is only 50% and the interest rates offered for Dubai is a tracker rate of 5% above the Bank of England base rate. Competitive by Dubai banking standards but hugely expensive by UK bank lending levels.

Good news is purpose can be investment property, holiday homes and buy to let property. Might be a valuable method of releasing capital from your Dubai purchases. Not sure if off plans are considered, perhaps if it is to make the final payment at handover and get the keys.:dunno: Could be a life line for some people.

http://www.lloydstsb-offshore.com/international-mortgages/


----------



## Hanna

*Negatifity ! other's would call it being realist*

All great talk !

Try and sell your unfinished Apartment right now this week,you haven't
a hope in hell unless you may lose around more than half what you paid.
Tell me some other countries that have bombed as bad !



:cheers:






sidxb said:


> I am so amused by reading such conspiracy theories :lol:


----------



## True Blue

^^The UK!!!

Try selling a house worth more than £350,000 in the UK today. NO CHANCE!!

The property market is a global problem caused by the lack of available finance. Bank lending criterea is rediculous today. If you need to mortgage more than 50% then it is next to impossible.

UK official market stats say house prices down average 3% over the last year, funny I have watched my divorcing neighbours trying to sell their top end house for more than 6 months and have reduced the price by almost £100k, still no luck.

Dubai isn't any different from 70% of the rest of the modern world.


----------



## agod

Hanna said:


> All great talk !
> 
> Try and sell your unfinished Apartment right now this week,you haven't
> a hope in hell unless you may lose around more than half what you paid.
> Tell me some other countries that have bombed as bad !
> 
> USA.


----------



## bizzybonita

:hilarious


----------



## unknownpleasures

With respect there is a vast difference between off plan (resembling a pre-paid uncompleted hole in a sandpit) and something worth £350,000 in the UK - converted to Dirhams it's over 2 million UAE (the majority of small investors would not have purchased something for this amount in Dubai for an apartment). £350,000 UK is around $545,000 US and around $535,000 AUS (and it's about what the average price is for a 4 bedroom house is these days and it also depends location, size) ...at least it exists and it will sell if someone has the cash to buy it or if they are not a bad risk the banks will lend! It's never been easy to get bank loans no matter where you come from and if you don't have some money up your sleeve no bank will just provide it - that's a given! 

I believe the point being made was try selling something that doesn't exist...uncompleted off plans was the example.....it's going to be a lot harder as they have no options available to them whatsoever; they have paid all their monies upfront in many cases and the contract not honored by the due completion date - no communication and people left in the dark! I would say that most agents in the UK or for that matter in other civilized communities in the world would be working with their client not against them and one would say communication is a very important tool. Here this simply doesn't happen! The uncompleted apartment/building is worth zero, simply unpalatable (having left a sour taste in most people's mouths as well as being totally stunned as to why this ignorance is allowed to continue) and unsellable! 

Oh Dubai is very different to the rest of the modern and civilized world!

I don't know checking the for sale sites show there have been sales in the UK and one was over the amount mentioned above!...depends I guess on location, location, location! At least it's there and is far different to something that doesn't exist and perhaps never will!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Happy New Year folks!


----------



## True Blue

unknownpleasures said:


> *With respect there is a vast difference between off plan (resembling a pre-paid uncompleted hole in a sandpit) and something worth £350,000 in the UK *- converted to Dirhams it's over 2 million UAE (the majority of small investors would not have purchased something for this amount in Dubai for an apartment). £350,000 UK is around $545,000 US and around $535,000 AUS (and it's about what the average price is for a 4 bedroom house is these days and it also depends location, size) ...at least it exists and it will sell if someone has the cash to buy it or if they are not a bad risk the banks will lend! It's never been easy to get bank loans no matter where you come from and if you don't have some money up your sleeve no bank will just provide it - that's a given!
> 
> I believe the point being made was try selling something that doesn't exist...uncompleted off plans was the example.....it's going to be a lot harder as they have no options available to them whatsoever; they have paid all their monies upfront in many cases and the contract not honored by the due completion date - no communication and people left in the dark! I would say that most agents in the UK or for that matter in other civilized communities in the world would be working with their client not against them and one would say communication is a very important tool. Here this simply doesn't happen! The uncompleted apartment/building is worth zero, simply unpalatable (having left a sour taste in most people's mouths as well as being totally stunned as to why this ignorance is allowed to continue) and unsellable!
> 
> Oh Dubai is very different to the rest of the modern and civilized world!
> 
> I don't know checking the for sale sites show there have been sales in the UK and one was over the amount mentioned above!...depends I guess on location, location, location! At least it's there and is far different to something that doesn't exist and perhaps never will!


With respect, you need to pay attention to the content of the subject matter and stop spouting off on tangents constantly!

Hanna's post made no mention of an off plan property.


----------



## unknownpleasures

^^^^


True Blue said:


> With respect, you need to pay attention to the content of the subject matter and stop spouting off on tangents constantly!
> 
> Hanna's post made no mention of an off plan property.


^^^^^^^


Hanna said:


> All great talk !
> 
> Try and sell your unfinished Apartment right now this week,you haven't
> a hope in hell unless you may lose around more than half what you paid.
> Tell me some other countries that have bombed as bad !


^^^^^^
Errrrrrr...I think before you jump the gun son and go on the defensive it clearly referred to "unfinished apartment"!!!!......try selling one of those is what Hanna was making reference to I believe..but I could be very wrong..please correct me if I am!

Cheers buddy!


----------



## AppleMac

agod said:


> Hanna said:
> 
> 
> 
> All great talk !
> 
> Try and sell your unfinished Apartment right now this week,you haven't
> a hope in hell unless you may lose around more than half what you paid.
> Tell me some other countries that have bombed as bad !
> 
> 
> 
> USA.
Click to expand...

Spain


----------



## unknownpleasures

Yeah you're right! Wherever these ponzi schemes are in existence and here this is the UAE section of the forum so is why it was brought up I guess! I bet it's hard to sell "unfinished apartments"...or what they are referred to as off plans there too! 

I'll have to check out the Spain section of the forum and see how people have been ripped off there also but I'm sure they are in the same boat! The one sinking quickly!


Happy New Year!!


----------



## Hanna

*Unfinished Apartment*

Hi 


Unfinished Apartment I meant Ocean Heights I should have made it a tad bit clearer it is due for hand-over next month.:cheers:

The off plan sales has collapsed, also the buildings nearing completion there is no interest at least to they are occupied and snagged then you can get it sold for half the price under a distressed sale if you are lucky :lol:

The minute I ask any sales person in Dubai what is the chance of a sale
of an apartment in a uncompleted building I get the deep intake of breath
and treatment.



Cheers buddy all the best for 2011




unknownpleasures said:


> ^^^^
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^
> Errrrrrr...I think before you jump the gun son and go on the defensive it clearly referred to "unfinished apartment"!!!!......try selling one of those is what Hanna was making reference to I believe..but I could be very wrong..please correct me if I am!
> 
> Cheers buddy!


----------



## True Blue

I think there is a big difference between a *"pre paid uncompleted hole in a sandpit" (your choice of words)* and an unfinished apartment. THAT IS WHY I HIGHLIGHTED THAT PARTICULAR SENTENCE.

Now can you explain to me why you often imply Dubai is a Ponzi scheme? I bought 2 properties off plan in Dubai and both are now earning me rent money. That's not a Ponzi scheme as far as I know! 

Your posting is very one sided, looks like you have made some bad choices and are not prepared to accept any responsibility for your poor judgment. If it is not your fault then it must be Dubai's fault!


----------



## Qman10

*Hello All,*

I have a property at R-051 and financed it through tamweel. I was offered by tamweel to opt out and loose my deposit.


The letter from Mazaya is a general letter regarding Force-Majure and never throughout the term has this been conveyed to me.

I am in favour of getting together and discussing the issue.


----------



## unknownpleasures

True Blue said:


> I think there is a big difference between a *"pre paid uncompleted hole in a sandpit" (your choice of words)*
> 
> Now can you explain to me why you often imply Dubai is a Ponzi scheme? I bought 2 properties off plan in Dubai and both are now earning me rent money. That's not a Ponzi scheme as far as I know!
> 
> Your posting is very one sided, looks like you have made some bad choices and are not prepared to accept any responsibility for your poor judgment. If it is not your fault then it must be Dubai's fault!


^^^^
You were very lucky and it all depends when they were bought and completed! Once the problems arose together with too many being available it all came crashing down! However that is not how it was being portrayed...it was being portrayed as being a safe place to invest by the govt! 

Off Plans you must admit are dead...something that you may not realise but others have mentioned this many times! Abu Dhabi came to Nakheel's rescue or didn't that happen!...it's everywhere you turn the place is going to take a long time to recover and what you paid is not what you are going to get if you wanted to sell right now...am I kind of right here?

What you made reference to is a house not selling in the UK for a certain amount of money - a completed house! However it was pointed out that there was a difference regarding a pre-paid off plan it would be difficult to sell don't you agree or do you believe this is the case where it is easy to sell off plan or even an "unfinished apartment" as Hanna provided in their example! I strongly believe (and agents have confirmed this also) that it is next to impossible to sell an off plan! Unfinished may also fall into the category as pointed out by Hanna as being difficult to sell i.e being half or less of what was paid initially but at least you can sit and wait on that (if handover has taken place) just like the one in the UK just as long as the rent is coming in! There is always curves in the real estate market but at least you have something tangible to sit on for as long as you wish! Others do not have that choice unfortunately and they are stuck with holes in the ground that have been paid for...contracts that mean nothing and will not be honored in many cases! No rent being paid while they sit and wait and pray for it to be completed which in many cases it will never be!

Actually it was referenced by someone else being a ponzi scheme although I tend to agree that this may be the case!

Also just to be very clear on this issue I know of many people who have been caught up in this mess! I am not one of them! The problem is it's not about bad judgment it was bad management by the govt! The developers were all registered through RERA...therefore it cannot be considered a bad call. What has occurred is that the money was squandered on everything but what it should have been used for by law (purchases of units were made after escrow was decreed) and it was then not appropriately regulated by the regulator hence the mess! Appropriately I can then confidently say yes it's a problem Dubai has caused and Dubai needs to fix! You only have to look at the responses provided by the CEO at RERA to see what a cat and mouse game he is playing! 

If you are doing well with your properties that's all well and good and I wish you all the best however it all depends where they are (what infrastructure it has etc) and what they are worth now. Rent wouldn't be as high as it was previously, unless once again you are very fortunate which in that case I take my hat off to you. However do you think they would be worth more now is the question and if not at least you can sit back take the rent and hold off for another 10 years or so before the market gets back on track and sell (that's because yours actually exist)...you see others can't do that and that my friend is where the problem lies! The idea of being one-sided is questionable! 

I find it a little difficult sometimes to understand why people wouldn't be at least a little concerned for their fellow investors rather than kick them in the guts when they are already torn up with what has occurred...I guess that's where I come in to bat for them!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Hanna said:


> Hi
> 
> The off plan sales has collapsed, also the buildings nearing completion there is no interest at least to they are occupied and snagged then you can get it sold for half the price under a distressed sale if you are lucky :lol:
> 
> The minute I ask any sales person in Dubai what is the chance of a sale
> of an apartment in a uncompleted building I get the deep intake of breath
> and treatment.
> 
> Cheers buddy all the best for 2011


^^^^^
Right on the money here! 

Also sorry to impose, just trying to get my head around all of this...do you know if Ocean Heights is all sold out and are you referring to this one as being the example of an "unfinished apartment" in an "uncompleted building"? Or is the apartment you have is finished but the rest of the building isn't? 

If it is an uncompleted building then as your example above mentions it would be impossible to sell (I take it was or still may be an off plan purchase ) and only once snagged and occupied it would be worth half or less the amount initially paid in this current market, is this how it is?


Cheers


----------



## Sukhi

Hello QueuePointers

I received the same letter today from Mazaya, that was sent to Mr. Yesramkumar and others as well. So what are we waiting for, now the ball is in our court, Mazaya is going to just wait and watch and do nothing.. Let us meet and discuss, then go to RERA file a complaint. Come on People....


----------



## Hanna

*Arse end and beyond !*

Hi 

The building is complete I am waiting for the call to go over and snag same
and sign hand-over docs.I do not know if all the units have been sold only
Damac have that answer I afraid.I have asked on numerous occasion to real
estate agents could they offload this turkey no one wants to know till the 
building is occupied,then they might try and sell same.This is one off the better 
placed towers what chance has the arse end and beyond got to sell.


Rangers got beefed today by the enemy Celtic not a good start to the year I afraid !




:cheers:












unknownpleasures said:


> ^^^^^
> Right on the money here!
> 
> Also sorry to impose, just trying to get my head around all of this...do you know if Ocean Heights is all sold out and are you referring to this one as being the example of an "unfinished apartment" in an "uncompleted building"? Or is the apartment you have is finished but the rest of the building isn't?
> 
> If it is an uncompleted building then as your example above mentions it would be impossible to sell (I take it was or still may be an off plan purchase ) and only once snagged and occupied it would be worth half or less the amount initially paid in this current market, is this how it is?
> 
> 
> Cheers


----------



## 3smiles1day

Spurs said:


> I have just recieved a call from Arisrtocrat after 2 years of silence!! They want me to pay them more money :lol: As if I would ever trust these guys with any more of my hard earned cash hno:


Spurs: What exactly did Aristocrat tell you? What was their response when you told them that you are not paying anymore money? 

Tell us more!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Hanna said:


> Hi
> 
> The building is complete I am waiting for the call to go over and snag same
> and sign hand-over docs.I do not know if all the units have been sold only
> Damac have that answer I afraid.I have asked on numerous occasion to real
> estate agents could they offload this turkey no one wants to know till the
> building is occupied,then they might try and sell same.This is one off the better
> placed towers what chance has the arse end and beyond got to sell.
> 
> ^^^^
> Thanks for that..I noticed the thread on Ocean Heights in the meantime and found that it began in 2004...not bad eh! the wait...and you since 2005...it's been around 5 years without any income generating whatsoever - ah internal pictures look very nice - looks classy and it's at the Marina so is not a bad place to be once it is occupied and the sales improve!
> 
> Hope all goes well for you next month...fingers crossed with handover...let's hope no more delays...I agree with what you have to say about the ass endy stuff but then it's difficult to differentiate between which would fit this category...a lot were being advertised by sports heroes like the Nicky Lauder, Boris Becker and Michael Shumacher Towers in Business Bay - there's probably a lot of problems for many who paid as they won't get what they paid for....well never!
> 
> BTW what do you think about DSC - is that assy end or high endy as most were led to believe at one time or another I am told!
> 
> 
> 
> Ranger got beefed today not a good start to the year I afraid !
> 
> ^^^^^^
> dunno: not sure what this means!


Cheers


----------



## Hanna

*Rangers in the New Year Derby !*

Hi 

Rangers were playing Celtic today in the old firm derby,we were played
of the park,even True Blue would agree with that !











unknownpleasures said:


> Cheers


----------



## liwanowner

Ok to meet, except not this week. Can we do something next week? And please lets list a clear agenda first. Let us start discussions about this here and now.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Fresh doubts cast on future of Dubai's Mall of Arabia Article

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/fresh...ia-358695.html

Mall of Arabia.
The CEO of Gulf retail giant Landmark Group has raised questions over whether Dubai’s Mall of Arabia, billed as one of the largest shopping resort in the world, will go ahead.

The mall is part of the $5bn City of Arabia project being developed by the Ilyas and Mustafa Galadari Group in Dubailand. The centre was scheduled to open at the end of 2010.

“I don’t think Mall of Arabia is coming along. I don’t know when that’s going to happen, if that’s going to happen,” Vipen Sethi, CEO of Landmark Group, told Arabian Business.

The company has a “big commitment” to Mall of Arabia in terms of store openings, said Sethi.

“There is very little work being done in Mall of Arabia. We go to the site and we drive past and nothing has happened there.”

UAE-based Landmark Group is one of the most influential retail chains in the Middle East. The company operates 900 stores in 14 countries, and claims a turnover of about $3.8bn.

Landmark on Wednesday announced it will invest $54m in opening 100 stores across the MENA region over three years.

Branded as ‘one of the world’s largest malls’, Mall of Arabia is expected to have a gross leasable area of four million square feet in phase 1, more than 1,000 retail outlets, a rooftop hotel and access to the dinosaur-themed Restless Planet theme park.

Like many Dubai real estate projects, the mega mall has been delayed in the wake of the emirate's property correction that has seen developers struggle to secure financing and complete projects.

On opening, Mall of Arabia will be competing for footfall with existing shopping centres such as Dubai Mall, which opened in November 2008, and Mall of the Emirates.

The Dubai market may struggle to accommodate another large mall, said Sethi.

“There is a saturation of retail space here in Dubai.”

Ian Gladwin, CEO Middle East of real estate firm Cluttons, warned the design of Mall of Arabia may need to be scaled down in light of the fragile economic environment.

“I think [Mall of Arabia] will have to be re-addressed in terms of the feasibility of the numbers and the size of the development will have to be re-addressed,” he told Arabian Business.

“Key to that size of development coming into the market is demand and take-up, and then footfall. It cannot be clumsily dropped into the market without good research going forward.”

A retail report released in August by Mumbai-based Bharat Book Bureau research firm highlighted the fact that the amount of leasable retail space in Dubai had increased by 263 percent between 2006 and 2010.

A study by real estate consultants CB Richard Ellis (CBRE) found that retail rental rates in Dubai averaged around $679.60 per sq m per annum in the second quarter of the year, a drop of 56 percent on pre-crash rates.


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-tribunal-rules-against-nakheel-on-fees-368888.html

Dubai tribunal rules against Nakheel on fees


By Joanne Bladd

* Wednesday, 22 December 2010 8:33 AM


Nakheel, the real estate arm of troubled conglomerate Dubai World, on Tuesday lost its attempt to raise AED41m in late fees from a buyer on the offshore World development in a landmark ruling by a Dubai tribunal.

The ruling requires Nakheel to finalise a ‘consolidation agreement’, and credit nearly AED30m in downpayments on two islands to a plot in Jumeirah Village, owned by one of the claimants, Diamond Developers.

Nakheel offered these credit swaps in the wake of Dubai’s real estate crash, to enable buyers to transfer cash from unfinished or halted developments to completed real estate.

The deal, agreed in March 2010, would enable Diamond to pay off its plots and secure the certificates needed to hand over nearly 1,400 units to its buyers.

In exchange for the payment, Perseus- the company behind the World purchases – would receive real estate to the value of its credit.

In July, however, Nakheel issued a demand for an additional AED41m in ‘delay fees’, a penalty for late payment on the two islands.

Nakheel said it had not signed the consolidation agreement and refused to issue five of the outstanding ‘no-objection’ certificates (NOC), stopping Diamond from handing over properties to end users.

The tribunal, however, ruled that a binding contract was in place and that Nakheel’s claim for AED41m in late fees was unjustified.

The two-day trial was the first completed by the Dubai World tribunal, a panel set up to resolve disputes relating to Nakheel’s parent company.

The subsequent ruling could have widespread implications for other buyers on the World development.

Jonathon Davidson, managing partner of UAE-based legal firm Davidson & Co, which represented the claimants, said the result could bolster the confidence of investors.

“It is certainly a clear indication of the manner with which their cases will be dealt,” he said. “The result is already drawing interest from other purchasers in a similar situation.”

The litigation process itself – which can often take up to eight months – was concluded in ten weeks, after Davidson & Co appealed for an urgent hearing.

“The tribunal sat till 7pm both nights of the trial to ensure that all of the evidence could be properly presented,” Davidson said.


----------



## unknownpleasures

*Dubai apartment prices drop*

http://www.ameinfo.com/252336.html

* United Arab Emirates: Monday, December 27 - 2010 at 08:32

According to data tracked by REIDIN.com, apartment prices in Dubai have continued to drop from October until last month, with sale prices for apartments of more than 100 square meters falling by nearly 2.3%. "Prices are more or less settled," Ahmet Kayhan, the chief executive of research firm said. Apartments from 101 sq m to 150 sq m were selling for 6.3% less than in November last year, while apartments larger than 151 sq m were priced 7.9% lower. Prices for apartments of less than 50 sq m were down 17.5% from a year earlier but declined only 0.1% from October to last month, according to REIDIN, which uses transaction data from the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA).


----------



## unknownpleasures

*Prices of UAE building materials stable*

http://www.ameinfo.com/252778.html

* United Arab Emirates: 6 hours, 31 minutes ago

According to the Statistics Centre - Abu Dhabi (SCAD), prices of most of the basic building materials in the domestic market fell significantly during last November, especially cement, construction steel and wood, while the prices of a wide variety of other building materials remained relatively stable, Wam has reported. The downward trend in the building materials market can be attributed to a steady rise in the domestic supply of locally made as well as imported items, together with the relatively lacklustre activity experienced lately by the construction market.


----------



## UAE Investor

not all prices are down 
Steel prices in the UAE have been on the rise over the last few months due to shortage and hope of resumption of projects by Nakheel and other Dubai developers.

Steel rebar prices jumped by ‬Dh200 to Dh2,650 per tonne in the last week of December due to shortage and industry players believe that the prices will continue rising due non-supply of Emirati and Turkey steel.

The engineering consultants and contractors told Al Bayan that steel suppliers are jacking up prices due to higher demand based on resumption of real estate projects by Nakheel and other Dubai companies.

Steel rebar prices had stabilized during the summer between ‬Dh2,100 to Dh2,300 per tonne but rose by Dh40 at the end of last September to Dh2,340 per tonne. The price rise continued during October and November to reach Dh2,400.

Steel rebar prices rose to Dh2,450 in December and increased further Dh200 to Dh2,650 earlier this week.
Industry players lamented this steep rise in prices.

Essa Al-Attiyah, CEO of Al Qmra Contracting company in Abu Dhabi, said this price rise is unfair and does not reflect the reality and demand.

He pointed out that contracting companies in Abu Dhabi are facing problem in buying steel and in some cases suppliers are pricing rebars at Dh3,000 per tonne on deferred cheques.

Fouad Jamal, CEO of the Trust construction Company in Abu Dhabi, confirmed that there is a sustained increase in the prices of steel.

He said main reasons for the sudden jump in steel rebar prices is the return of activity to Dubai's property development, especially after Nakheel and Dubai Holding successfully rescheduled their debts.

The second reason is that the construction sector in Abu Dhabi is anticipating a decree to grant ownership rights to foreign investors who bought property in the emirate.

Jamal said property investment and development companies - except Sorouh, Aldar and Tamouh – are moving slowly with their projects due to uncertainty surrounding the ownership regulations in the emirate.
http://www.emirates247.com/property...nakheel-resuming-projects-2011-01-03-1.337342


----------



## unknownpleasures

*Dubai tenants could face threats to cut off electricity*

DEWA may cut off power in communal areas as homeowners default on maintenance fees
By Claire Ferris-Lay

* Sunday, 2 January 2011 9:39 AM

Residents in Marina Diamond II, a 274-apartment tower in Dubai Marina, were told last week that the power may be switched off in the communal areas

Residents in Marina Diamond II, a 274-apartment tower in Dubai Marina, were told last week that the power may be switched off in the communal areas

Tenants in Dubai could soon be faced with threats to cut off electricity supplies in communal areas of residential buildings if maintenance fees remain unpaid, property experts have told Arabian Business.

Residents in Marina Diamond II, a 274-apartment tower in Dubai Marina, were told last week that the power may be switched off in the communal areas and lifts unless an outstanding electricity bill for AED316,000 ($86,029) is paid.

Many other residents could soon face similar situations following defaults on maintenance charges by home owners, according to property experts.

“It’s a problem in a number of buildings,” said Kent O'Brien, the CEO of Strata Global and a strata management expert, said. “The unfortunate thing is that a lot of owners are refusing to accept the budgets that are being put up by the developers and refusing to pay."

Default rates for maintenance fees are around 40 to 50 percent in Dubai, he said.

Charles Neil, the CEO of Landmark Properties, said he didn’t think Marina Diamond II’s case was isolated and said the stalemate situation would do little to restore investor confidence in Dubai’s flagging property market.

“The word in the market is that there are a number of others in that situation [so] it’s not an isolated case.

“It’s going to have to be something that is carefully managed a) for health and safety and b) for the confidence of investors and existing owners who are living in these apartments and who are being penalised,” he added.

Strata law, which allows property owners to take control of a building’s service fees, was decreed in 2007 but only implemented in May this year.

There have not yet been any homeowners associations registered with Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA). Until they are approved, developers and maintenance companies must take homeowners to court to recover unpaid service fees, a lengthy and time consuming process.

“Liquidity is drying up and, until the owners associations are legalised, you cannot use the current regulations to enforce a collection without going through the courts, which is why the problem exists,” said O’Brian.

As a result, new homeowner groups may find themselves insolvent as soon as they take over the running of their buildings because scores of property owners have defaulted on fees.

“The owners association will technically be responsible for repaying those fees that haven’t been collected back to the developer so they’ll be in a deficient situation. They won’t actually have any cash until they start collecting the fees themselves,” said Neil.

In Marina Diamond II around 20 percent of the owners have defaulted on their maintenance charges, according to Fares Saeed, the chief executive of Diamond Investments, which owns the building.

The developer covered the shortfall for the last three years but is now refusing to do so, according to reports. This week DEWA sent a notice to all of the residents threatening to disconnect the service unless the bill was paid.

One Marina Diamond II homeowner, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told Arabian Business he had refused to pay his maintenance charges because he didn’t feel the maintenance company was looking after the building properly.

“The swimming pool lay empty for more than a year and was never cleaned and they weren’t taking care of the communal areas. The only reason I paid was because my tenants had their security passes taken away from them," he said.

DEWA and Diamond Investments did not respond to requests from Arabian Business for comment.


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/duba...s-cut-off-electricity-370726.html?tab=Article


----------



## UAE Investor

aljazeera news channel found this
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - Workers at a Dubai labour camp are staging a rare strike after a melee with security guards.
A company official overseeing the workers says the riot broke out late Saturday after long-standing allegations of mistreatment by the guards. The official from Jams HR Solutions describes the damage as "huge" with at least 40 buses destroyed and furniture and windows smashed.
Police remained at the site Monday as the 2,000 workers, most of them South Asians, refuse to leave for various construction sites.
Work protests are unusual in Dubai despite growing complaints of pay shortfalls since Dubai's economic slump last year.
Rights groups also have pressed for better living conditions for the tens of thousands of Asian hard-hat labourers.
http://www.1310news.com/news/world/...e-rare-dubai-strike-after-labour-camp-clashes


----------



## julienemtzek

All:

I am fully with you on this although I am currently in Hungary as I was visiting for christmas and won't be back to the U.A.E for a couple more weeks. But if there is an agenda/ a complaint for me to sign with all the owners..anything whatsoever -- I AM IN.

I believe we need to do 2 things:

1- If you have a mortgage from Tamweel - then Tamweel represents you in the cotract and should push Tamweel to act on your behalf to protect your rights with Mazaya. i.e Tamweel should push Mazaya for some sort of discount and/or penalty for the delays.

2- We should All contact Mazaya giving them the option on either to work with us for a reasonable discount or penalty (for example 1.5% per month of delay- I would like it to be more but this has been the market norm 1-2%) If they are not willing to cooperate then we threaten by pulling out of the project - if a 100 can do that that would be a significant threat to the project- and I see on this and other forums that we have the numbers to do so.

Lets move and take a coordinated action!


----------



## unknownpleasures

^^^^^
Well put MW...this is how it happened - some were lucky and some were not in an unregulated market which in 2007 had to stop the shenanigans and to date nothing has been fixed...nothing to do with bad judgment it was and continues to be the system!



MarkWass said:


> Trueblue
> 
> Not sure it’s all just mindless negativity by greedy investors who neglected doing their own due diligence. I think it’s reality that naturally evolved from an effectively unregulated marketplace.
> 
> And for that, the ones most at fault for allowing developers to be naughty little boys, has to be the ones in power, the ones who are supposed to be regulating?
> 
> TB, I don’t mean to be rude and I’m not sure what properties you invested in or guided your friends towards as you suggest, but perhaps *your experience has been very ‘lucky’* rather than indicative of the average investor in the average investment? By the way when I say average, I don’t mean that as a derogatory term.
> 
> Personally, I reserved in 4 in 2007 (all of which were supposed to be completed and occupied by now, yet none of which are above ground yet). The largest 2 investments being in the Marina, one of whom was Damac. The other two were in JVS – a bigger risk, a gamble as I knew at the outset, but with bigger potential / ROI.
> 
> Whether they are someone like Damac, the biggest developer in the Middle East or a developer with less of a traceable track record, they are all the same in the fact that they are *effectively operating in an unregulated market*, where excuses for non-performance can go unchecked by any regulatory authority.
> 
> When I invested in 2007, sure there were many of the flipper / ‘get rich quick brigade’ operating there, some of whom (unsuccessfully) tried to entice me to join their gang. I was and am not interested in that, but with family members there, I was thinking long term as a place to relocate to myself. But unless the situation changes and more transparency / control becomes apparent in sectors (that could easily be properly regulated), at the moment I am not sure I’ll join you there soon…


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> BTW. Searched 1 beds for rent in the marina last night, over 900 being advertised on Dubizzle alone.


Its even worse for 2 beds - almost 1200! hno:


----------



## 234sale

^^ was this posted before?

http://cityoflifefilm.com/


----------



## 234sale

I'm just about to be involved with the leasing of 70 1beds and 100 2Beds in Business Bay,

The developer will be asking 65K-75K* for the 1bed and 85K-95K* for the 1600sqft 2 bed. I expect these prices will have to be dropped more ask to get they leased quickly.
* (floor and view dependant) 

Rents and Prices will continue to decline this year, just due to the massive volume of new stock coming on board across Dubai as developers and investors compete to lease.

I expect by the end of this year rents will be 15% less


----------



## Pleth

234sale, that is very expensive. Business Bay is all concrete and nothing else - IMO.


----------



## sgn7200

ummbutti said:


> Any one know the mobile number of Mr. Dheeraj Wadhawan, Director, Dheeraj East Coast Company?
> Please PM me if Possible.


This guy has business empires both in Melbourne and Mumbai apart from Dubai. If you are serious enough, please contact Companies House at these respective places. I hope you will be able to get some lead. On the other hand, you know this man leads a very upmarket life style. Rumour goes, this guy is often seen at London Casinoes or Melbourne dog races. He is leading a comfortable life on your and mine hard earned money. Obviously you have something in mind. Follow this up. This is a worthwhilw cause. Good Luck.


----------



## Nitin007

*Time for Action*

Hi Guys,

I have been searching the Net left, right & centre to try and find other investors on Rufi. I have bought Rufi at a premium and have a heavy mortgage with UBL. There are no signs of any progress on the construction. Everytime you call, they generally mention a delay. Given the construction update, i doubt it will be handed over even by end of yr. 

I believe it is high time, we put together a committee and go all out together to talk to Rufi. My contact no is 00971508432043 (Email [email protected]). Please call/ write to me whoever is interested. I am sure if we go together we have a much better chance of getting something done. As they say, all 5 fingers need come together to give the punch. 
If anyone has a loan with UBL, then lets talk to UBL also.
Regards,
Nitin


----------



## 234sale

No need to imagine,,

Completed developments, roads and infrastructure under progress.

Completed Develppments

Executive Towers x11 Towers
Vision Tower
One Business Bay
The Prism
Citadel
Churchill x 2 Towers
XL Tower
Business Tower
U-Bora Towers x 2 Towers
Sobha Ivory 1 & 2
Mayfair x 2 towers
Scala Tower
Clayton Residence
Windsor Tower
Al Shafar Tower
Crystal Tower
Grovesnor Tower
Bayswater
Ontario

With

Metropolis
Business Tower
Blue Bay
Silver Tower
Regal Tower
West Wharf
Bay Gate
Oxord Tower
Sohba Saphire
Empire Hieghts
Park Lame
Prime Tower
Clover Tower
Burlington
+ another 3 or 4 I can't remeber the name off finished this year..


Yep a lot of failure but street lights have been installed...

All the seperation between Downton Burj and Business Bay is going

BB is now zoned as Downtown Burj Khalifa,, 

Bit like how JBR will become Dubai Marina


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> Trueblue
> 
> Not sure it’s all just mindless negativity by greedy investors who neglected doing their own due diligence.* I think it’s reality that naturally evolved from an effectively unregulated marketplace*.
> 
> And for that, the ones most at fault for allowing developers to be naughty little boys, has to be the ones in power, the ones who are supposed to be regulating?
> 
> TB, I don’t mean to be rude and I’m not sure what properties you invested in or guided your friends towards as you suggest, but perhaps *your experience has been very ‘lucky’* rather than indicative of the average investor in the average investment? By the way when I say average, I don’t mean that as a derogatory term.
> 
> Personally, I reserved in 4 in 2007 (all of which were supposed to be completed and occupied by now, yet none of which are above ground yet). The largest 2 investments being in the Marina, one of whom was Damac. The other two were in JVS – a bigger risk, a gamble as I knew at the outset, but with bigger potential / ROI.
> 
> Whether they are someone like Damac, the biggest developer in the Middle East or a developer with less of a traceable track record, they are all the same in the fact that they are *effectively operating in an unregulated market*, where excuses for non-performance can go unchecked by any regulatory authority.
> 
> When I invested in 2007, sure there were many of the flipper / ‘get rich quick brigade’ operating there, some of whom (unsuccessfully) tried to entice me to join their gang. I was and am not interested in that, but with family members there, I was thinking long term as a place to relocate to myself. But unless the situation changes and more transparency / control becomes apparent in sectors (that could easily be properly regulated), at the moment I am not sure I’ll join you there soon…


Everyone knew that Dubai was a brand new emerging property market and as such was almost completely unregulated. Straight away that is a warning to everyone to be carefull.

The minute I arrived in Dubai back in 2005 the taxi drivers were asking me if I was buying property and then relaying stories of people who just flipped a villa and made $50k in 3 months. That was the buzz in the region and people who just came on holiday ended up leaving with a sales agreement. People out to make a quick buck were queueing overnight and buying handfulls of property. Greed not need! Feeding an untethered animal that was growing out of control. Next natural phase of the cash swilling property phenomenon was the influx of the quick buck fake developers. The exact same sequence of events that hit the unregulated timeshare market. 

If you were to read some of my posts from 2007 you would detect my surprise and concern at the overheating prices and advising people that I would personally not pay more than 1000 on average for a marina development. I was ridiculed in 2008 as the market indicated asking prices at double this benchmark. 

Was it all down to luck? Back in 2006 I talked a friend out of buying a Damac apartment in the marina. At that time my own research showed that Damac had impressed by completeing 2 developments in the marina. Marina Terrace was handed over, Waves might have been close to completing. Despite this track record I was more concerned about the number of projects they had launched and had not started. That was a lot of money at risk. They were also concentrating on saturating the market with marketing gimics and purchasing prime billboard space ALL OVER THE WORLD. He had attended a sales launch and dinner in Glasgow offering free cars and personal jets. How was all this being funded? It was timeshare selling timebomb happening all over again.

Back in 2005 you could hire a taxi for the full day and evening for around £40. I used to get them to just drive me to locations like Dubailand, Arabian Ranches, DSC, JV, The marina etc. This exercise alone helped me decide as to where I should not consider investing money and where the real activity was or what the various locations had to offer. What I didn't see coming was the collapse of Nakheel and I nearly got my fingers burnt with a villa on PJA. 

We make our own luck sometimes.


----------



## True Blue

234sale said:


> I'm just about to be involved with the leasing of 70 1beds and 100 2Beds in Business Bay,
> 
> The developer will be asking 65K-75K* for the 1bed and 85K-95K* for the 1600sqft 2 bed. I expect these prices will have to be dropped more to get them leased quickly.
> * (floor and view dependant)
> 
> Rents and Prices will continue to decline this year, just due to the massive volume of new stock coming on board across Dubai as developers and investors compete to lease.
> 
> I expect by the end of this year rents will be 15% less


The full impact of the oversupply is going to be apparent this year. New developments will cut prices to attract tenants out of existing lets. This will result in a softening of the prices of the existing good quality lets.

I emailed 3 agents to list my large 1 bed in The Jewels for rent and give me their opinion of the current market. None responded! I can only conclude that they are either snowed under after the long holidays or that the current stock is just not moving. Watch this space.


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> Everyone knew that Dubai was a brand new emerging property market and as such was almost completely unregulated. Straight away that is a warning to everyone to be carefull.
> 
> The minute I arrived in Dubai back in 2005 the taxi drivers were asking me if I was buying property and then relaying stories of people who just flipped a villa and made $50k in 3 months. That was the buzz in the region and people who just came on holiday ended up leaving with a sales agreement. People out to make a quick buck were queueing overnight and buying handfulls of property. Greed not need! Feeding an untethered animal that was growing out of control. Next natural phase of the cash swilling property phenomenon was the influx of the quick buck fake developers. The exact same sequence of events that hit the unregulated timeshare market.
> 
> If you were to read some of my posts from 2007 you would detect my surprise and concern at the overheating prices and advising people that I would personally not pay more than 1000 on average for a marina development. I was ridiculed in 2008 as the market indicated asking prices at double this benchmark.
> 
> Was it all down to luck? Back in 2006 I talked a friend out of buying a Damac apartment in the marina. At that time my own research showed that Damac had impressed by completeing 2 developments in the marina. Marina Terrace was handed over, Waves might have been close to completing. Despite this track record I was more concerned about the number of projects they had launched and had not started. That was a lot of money at risk. They were also concentrating on saturating the market with marketing gimics and purchasing prime billboard space ALL OVER THE WORLD. He had attended a sales launch and dinner in Glasgow offering free cars and personal jets. How was all this being funded? It was timeshare selling timebomb happening all over again.
> 
> Back in 2005 you could hire a taxi for the full day and evening for around £40. I used to get them to just drive me to locations like Dubailand, Arabian Ranches, DSC, JV, The marina etc. This exercise alone helped me decide as to where I should not consider investing money and where the real activity was or what the various locations had to offer. What I didn't see coming was the collapse of Nakheel and I nearly got my fingers burnt with a villa on PJA.
> 
> We make our own luck sometimes.


Oops, I said 2007, but having checked my records it was actually 2006, but let’s not split hairs.

Anyway, if you have really been as successful as you suggest with buy-to-let investments as you say, I still think you were very lucky. I don’t mean to make an enemy of you, especially as I think we share the same heritage ;-), but it is all too easy for the lucky ones to retrospectively talk with the benefit of hindsight.

With some experience behind me, having worked my entire career in the sector, as a small time yet honest developer, I invested in a cross section of investments, 2 of which I luckily managed to pull out of after the things took a turn for the worst in the global property market, yet are still committed to 4 of them today.



True Blue said:


> Everyone knew that Dubai was a brand new emerging property market and as such was almost completely unregulated.


Reality is that the players in that market (ie developers) are still effectively unregulated despite any media reports or forum posts claiming otherwise.



True Blue said:


> We make our own luck sometimes.


Yes we certainly do, but I believe that if Dubai is going to be a longer term success as I still believe it potentially could, given that such a place will require external investment for the foreseeable future, then effective control is needed from the top-down. As well as some basic govt led consumer protection mechanisms, even in in a sector where caveat emptor is, of course of, such significance!!


----------



## Property Queen

Any new developments? 

Is Wind giving investors their money back with Libor interest, as per contract? That is the best thing as prices are so low now. Get your money back...but I do not think the Iranian mafia give refunds.

The Wind Investors group with JBA and First Timer was set up to get close dealings with Wind and have an influence. Have they achieved anything or do they know something others do not. People were saying years ago that this is a pile of corrupt dung; can the investors group advise us otherwise or have they after all these years come to the same conclusion?

The Wind Towers are an embarrassment to Dubai. Make the authorities sort it out. Deal with people who matter rather than squabble with idiots like Bad or First Timer. Wish you all the best.


----------



## True Blue

^^Try and use some common sense.

The reason the work has stopped is due to the fact that there is no money left.


----------



## unknownpleasures

MarkWass said:


> I had a look at the websites of the banks who hold the Escrow accounts for a couple of the developers that I have reserved apartments with. Both of which developments were supposed to be complete and handed over 2 years ago. Neither have actually started any REAL construction yet, despite the fact that all units were, at one point in time anyway, apparently ‘sold out’ and construction and materials costs have since come down.
> 
> 1. *Dubai Islamic Bank* http://www.dib.ae/en/realestate_escrow%20account.htm
> *Which includes:*
> “Key Benefits:
> Competitive profit rates on account balances.”
> 
> 2. *Tamweel Bank* http://tamweel.ae/en/EscrowManagementServices.aspx
> *Which includes:*
> “Key Benefits:
> Competitive profit rates”
> 
> Plet, I think that the “competitive profit rates” are likely to be higher than 1% on average over a 5 to 10 year period, but for the sake of argument let’s use your figure of 1% and assume that they only paid out at that rate for an entire decade.
> 
> Anyone know what the above 2 (DIB and Tamweel) profit rate paid on escrow account balances is? Or any other banks..
> 
> Using the example from my earlier message, where a developer has 500 investors who had already paid 1 million AED by 2007 or 8 (and I’m not mentioning names, but for some of the developers I have invested with, that is an extremely _conservative_ estimate). This would mean an initial balance of 500 million AED.
> 
> After 5 years of ‘force majeure’ type delaying shenanigans, the interest or ‘profit rate’ return on the money alone would be 25.5 million AED. Although over a 5 year period, I would expect that many of the developers would have negotiated a better return than 1%, so that figure could be substantially higher, even in this current economic climate.
> 
> OK, sure they could make more money in theory if all the units were sold out and they had delivered them by the Anticipated Completion Date. But even if they don’t, and the reason for which has to a certain extent has been the result of poor business planning on the developer’s part, regardless of external market conditions. And even if those developers own S.P.A. contracts imposes some sort of token gesture ‘penalty rate’ on themselves for late delivery after a 12 month grace period as per contracts, they could still make a profit by doing absolutely nothing. Especially for those developers with many projects, they can focus their resources on some of them, making hefty profits on those, while still making a small profit on the ones they are delaying purely from this ‘profit rate’. Although of course the investors on those delayed projects, like yours truly, are well and truly shafted.
> 
> I say token gesture ‘penalty rate’ although of course they are not due under ‘force majeure’ clauses in the contracts…
> 
> Bearing in mind the above and the fact that many customers paid out vast amounts of cash long before a grain of sand had been shifted, this is one place where speculative (and unregulated) developers have been able to pass on all the ‘speculation’ element (all the risk) of speculative development on to others, unchecked!
> 
> Come on RERA, less talk, more action, if you are ‘allowed’ to take action of course. Regulate. PLEASE!


^^^^^^

Mark any way of finding out what "profit rate" and those Key Benefits actually mean?...

Any idea about the Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank Escrow Account? Are there any key profit rates?

On a slightly different note but related to escrow...the information posted on the ADCB'S website states the following and where it clearly provides when escrow came into effect - 2007!!! :



> Mr. Fraser added: “Mr. Fraser added: “*ADCB has been managing escrow accounts for real estate projects based in Dubai for the past three years working closely with RERA and providing priority escrow services to the developers and safeguarding the investor’s interest. *ADCB is proud to be one of the local banks implementing this key initiative and ensuring the application of a strong and credible escrow structure". working closely with RERA and providing priority escrow services to the developers and safeguarding the investor’s interest. ADCB is proud to be one of the local banks implementing this key initiative and ensuring the application of a strong and credible escrow structure".
> 
> RERA’s CEO, Eng. Marwan Bin Ghulaita commended ADCB’s commitment to keep pace with RERA’s initiatives. *The CEO added that right from its inception in 2007;* RERA has taken several effective steps towards achieving transparency and creditability in the real estate sector and shall continue playing a major role in the regulation of the real estate market.


^^^^
As we all know escrow was mandated in 2007, the problem is I am aware of investors funds never being placed into escrow in 2007 and this continued!...I can't see the transparency that is provided as some sort of safetynet when this didn't happen.

It's in black and white here as well (SINCE 2007) and where I am aware of instances of monies never being deposited into escrow and their SPA's are from July 2007 onwards... 

I am very concerned (as everyone should be also) as to why RERA has not prosecuted any developer who has not adhered to the regulations set out by RERA when I know in many instances where RERA has been notified about this! To date they have done nothing, no response of any kind! 

What to do?


----------



## dima.malibary

Dear All,

I have a property in QP R19, and i received the letter from QP on the 27th. It seriously pissed me off, and we wrote them the email below on the 29th of December, they have replied today (9th of January) in red! which really really doesn't answer anything!!

_To Mazaya Management,



I am writing you with respect to the recent letter I have received from you stating a further delay in the delivery of my apartment in Building R019 of Que-point, Liwan. I purchased this apartment in October 2007 and have so far paid XXX,XXXAED, adding up to 45% of the total price. 



The original completion date of this unit, as per the contract, was the last quarter of 2009. This deadline was not met and as per the contract an additional one year grace period was granted. This meant that this apartment was to be handed over by the end of 2010. The contract clearly states that unless the “force-majeure” clause is exercised, then Mazaya must return back all monies paid by buyer including deposits, but excluding any interest accrued on this sum, to the buyer.



After speaking with two of your company representatives Ms. Somaia and Ms. Poornima from your offices in Dubai, I was told that your company is choosing to exercise the “force-majeure” clause stated in the contract to justify the delays.



At this point I would like to advise you that unless you are able to present comprehensive proof of your claim of “force-majeure” being approved by the Dubai Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA), I would reserve the right to proceed with legal action against your company and request you to return to me the total sum of xxx,xxxAED as mentioned above, at once and as stated in the contract between us. Please refer to the letter dated 20 December 2010 in which we have laid out the reasons for the unforeseen delay. Please note that the cancelation of the sales agreement is not possible and we hereby reject your request. All of our rights are hereby reserved.



Further to this notice please take note that should you be unable to provide sufficient proof and fail to justify the validity of your claim, i would move to impose a claim of interest on the sum owed to me by your company for the duration it should take you to refund this amount, based on the current interest rates, starting from January 01, 2011. No compensation will be given.



With the mentioned above, in the case that your claim is approved and authorized by RERA, I would kindly request you to provide me with:

1) RERA approved documentation validating your claim for “force-majeure". As of now the letter is the only document that we have.

2) The new completion date for my apartment (please be more specific than 2011). Remains same as mentioned in the letter

3) Total percentage of completion amount, and 2011 time table. Not available at this point of time.

4) Penalties imposed on your company for failing to meet your deadline for the second time. Same as above .

I trust that you will be able to provide the documents mentioned above in a timely manner.



On a personal note, I would further like to express my feeling of disappointment with your company’s handling of my investment. The financial instability of the past few years has affected every sector of the economy, both businesses and consumers. It is simply un-acceptable to me, as it would be to any other investor, that your company was not shy about demanding payments on a timely manner and threatened to terminate contracts should the buyers fail to meet a deadline, and now that it’s time for you to deliver on your promises, you are hiding behind “force-majeure”. Please explain to me how you would react if I or any other investors presented you with a similar claim.



Looking forward to hearing back from you,

Sincerely,_




I have tried to contact RERA asking for the approval but the customer service werent helpful, and they told me that we need to go to their offices and ask. 

I was planning to go there alone, but after reading this thread, i was wondering if you guys have set a date to go as a group?

The more numbers of investors we have, the louder our voice will be!!!!!

let me know!!!


----------



## MarkWass

unknownpleasures said:


> Mark any way of finding out what "profit rate" and those Key Benefits actually mean?...
> 
> Any idea about the Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank Escrow Account? Are there any key profit rates?


 
*^^ ‘Profit rate’ or ‘credit fees’ basically means ‘interest’.*

*I have no idea about ADCB, but would like to know the answer to that as well as they are one of the escrow managers in a project that I have paid a lot of money towards.*

*FYI… on the subject of who gets the interest (or ‘profit rate’ or ‘credit fees’), the point that others raised on this and other forums. I think this was a critical point. As if it is the respective developer, then that would be another reason for delay, if they are earning money without doing anything. I sent Tamweel an email asking who earns this money, as I assumed it is the developer. Anyway their reply is below. As you can see, their answer is basically: *

*‘we’re not telling…. ask RERA or the Land Dept’,*

*which seems a bit bizarre…*

*Mark*


*From:* @Tamweel.ae
*Sent:* 12 December 2010 05:38
*To:* MW
*Subject:* RE: ESCROW ACCOUNT: 

Dear Mr. 

Tamweel acts as an account TRUSTEE to this Escrow account ONLY. Tamweel is not in a position to answer such queries, Kindly request you to approach the regulators (RERA or Land Department) for resolution of your queries.


Regards@Tamweel.ae



*From:* MW 
*Sent:* Friday, December 10, 2010 7:47 PM
*To:* @Tamweel.ae
*Cc:* 
*Subject:* RE: ESCROW ACCOUNT: 

Dear 

Please can you confirm whether the money that your bank is holding in escrow account for the project earns interest (or credit fees)?

And who is receiving this interest?

Many Thanks


----------



## investor101

*Force Majeure*

Hi,

I also received a letter from Mazaya on the last week of December. I tried to contact them and even gave them a letter that and stated the following: 

"This is to inform you that I would like to exercise my right to terminate the Sale and Purchase Agreement (Agreement) dated 1st April 2008. 

In reference to the clause number 5.7 of the subject Agreement, it specifically stated that, “If the buyer shall have fulfilled all of the buyer’s obligations of payment and the seller is unable to deliver possession of the purchased property by the fourth quarter, 2010, then the buyer may by written notice to the seller terminate this Agreement, and following such termination the seller shall repay, the payments then already made towards the purchase price by the buyer (including deposit)”. As such, I have the right as a buyer to terminate this Agreement and shall be repaid the payments that I have made towards the purchase price. 

In your letter dated 21st December 2010, you advised that a force majeure occurred; hence, the purchased property could not be delivered by 4th Quarter of 2010. 

Force majeure in itself does not release the seller from responsibilities. ‘Delays of issuing the statutory approvals from the concerned authorities’ is not considered as a force majeure and is clearly a breach of the Property Law for the seller cannot sell properties before obtaining the necessary permits to make an infrastructure. 

Further, in Article 273 of the Civil Transactions Law (CTL), Federal Law No.5 of 1985, it also stated that, “If a force majeure occurs in a bilaterally binding contract, thus making the performance of an obligation impossible, the counter obligation shall be forfeited and the contract shall be automatically terminated.” Hence, I shall be entitled to terminate this contract if the seller admits that a force majeure has occurred in this contract.

I have placed my trust and confidence with the seller during the signing of the contract bearing in mind that the seller would be able to deliver it on promised date. In view of the foregoing, I demand that I be reimbursed for all the payments that I have made on the property as the seller failed to comply with its contractual obligations as agreed."

To date, Mazaya has not reverted back to me. I copied the same mail to Tamweel and according to them, if in case I would want to terminate my contract, I have to settle the outstanding liabilities with them. This is clearly not stated in the contract and it shows that they put the pressure on the investors. So far everything is still uncertain.

The following are my suggestions:

1). Involve media so that it would create awareness and attract those people who are in the same situation to join us

2). Have as many people as possible as this would have more bearing on the case (in case there is a need to file one)

3). Proceed to Mazaya (as a group) and give them one consolidated letter stating that we all would want to terminate our contracts.

4). Request for a new/revised contract since our contracts have effectively expired on the 31st of December 2010. We (a) can ask for reduction in cost (b) request for compensation for each month of delay and (c) request for complete and total dissolution of the contract. Hence, we should reimbursed for all the payments we have made as stated in the contract.

5). To have a regular group meeting to discuss the steps to be taken.


----------



## True Blue

I would think it reasonable that the developer will own this profit rate. If we removed the escrow law, then the money would sit in the developers account earning interest anyway.

It is also worth considering the converse of this argument, if the account was subjected to admin and service charges, as is normal on a comercial account, would you want to be held liable for paying these charges?


----------



## MarkWass

^^
My estimation of you has plummeted, big time. 

Come on be serious now? Please can you declare your blatant VI (Vested Interest) for us all? You claim that you and your ‘friends’ have been very successful in investing in Dubai property (not as a ‘flipper’ in recent years) and also claim to have invested in some of the few developments (which is realistically less than 5% of all Dubai off plan projects which is truly totally legit) and yet also say that it is ok for an off plan developer to take millions of AED from customers, bank it, earn interest (or ‘profit rate’ or whatever you choose to call it, on that money), yet choose to renege on their side of the bargain, ie break a signed legal contract, even for projects that were 100% sold out??

Are you for real – if so, I can only conclude your VI is that you either work for a developer or a real estate agent?

I’ll happily ‘eat my hat’, as they say, if I am wrong about that…


----------



## gerald.d

MarkWass said:


> ^^
> My estimation of you has plummeted, big time.
> 
> Come on be serious now? Please can you declare your blatant VI (Vested Interest) for us all? You claim that you and your ‘friends’ have been very successful in investing in Dubai property (not as a ‘flipper’ in recent years) and also claim to have invested in some of the few developments (which is realistically less than 5% of all Dubai off plan projects which is truly totally legit) and yet also say that it is ok for an off plan developer to take millions of AED from customers, bank it, earn interest (or ‘profit rate’ or whatever you choose to call it, on that money), yet choose to renege on their side of the bargain, ie break a signed legal contract, even for projects that were 100% sold out??
> 
> Are you for real – if so, I can only conclude your VI is that you either work for a developer or a real estate agent?
> 
> I’ll happily ‘eat my hat’, as they say, if I am wrong about that…


LOL.

His argument is perfectly logical.

And I hope that's a tasty hat you've got lined up.


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> ^^
> My estimation of you has plummeted, big time.
> 
> Come on be serious now? Please can you declare your blatant VI (Vested Interest) for us all? You claim that you and your ‘friends’ have been very successful in investing in Dubai property (not as a ‘flipper’ in recent years) and also claim to have invested in some of the few developments (which is realistically less than 5% of all Dubai off plan projects which is truly totally legit) and yet also say that it is ok for an off plan developer to take millions of AED from customers, bank it, earn interest (or ‘profit rate’ or whatever you choose to call it, on that money), yet choose to renege on their side of the bargain, ie break a signed legal contract, even for projects that were 100% sold out??
> 
> Are you for real – if so, I can only conclude your VI is that you either work for a developer or a real estate agent?
> 
> I’ll happily ‘eat my hat’, as they say, if I am wrong about that…



Healthy debate is good for the soul. No disrespect Mark but sometimes you have to seperate emotions from investment decisions and be prepared to consider an alternative angle to tackling a problem. This is why people waste so much money in court expenses because they can't get their heads around the other parties point of view.

If a developer is earning interest from your funds and not making progress as outlined in your agreements then you should be entitled to sue them for loss of interest or opportunity. Provided that you can prove they are at fault and have breached the agreement. The courts of arbitration are full of these types of cases now and many arbiters from the UK are flocking over to the UAE to tackle the backlog.

I tried to send you a pm with my investment history in Dubai but you have apparently blocked receiving pm's.


----------



## arfie

This is an email I received from a respected agent in Dubai on there current thoughts on the Dubai property market:-

"Things remain tough in this market but properties are selling, at the right price. I remain hopeful that prices may recover in the long run but to be honest I cannot see too much movement this year. If someone was in the position to be able to choose whether to hold or dispose of a property here, then I suppose it depends on what it is and the circumstances as to what I would advise. Do I think this is the best place to invest your money, no. Do I think that there is a chance of recovering some of the recent losses over the next 3 years, yes."


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> I tried to send you a pm with my investment history in Dubai but you have apparently blocked receiving pm's.


Yes it looks like there was something wrong with the settings but I think it should work now.. I sent you a test message.


----------



## agod

In todays paper, how long has it been now?


http://www.emirates247.com/property...f-project-delayed-2-years-2011-01-10-1.340164


----------



## julienemtzek

Excellent inputs from Dima & investor101:

Dima: I am pissed off myself by just reading the ridiculously rude and vague response you got.

investor101: Thanks for joining us here from Yahoo groups (All: I had found another forum of Liwan owners on Yahoo Groups also trying to fight Mazaya and cosolidate their efforts on the recent breach of contract by Mazaya and invited them over to this forum).

I think your suggestions are excellent and we should act upon them immediately

Does anyone have any access to the media Dubai news, emirates 24/7...?

Lets make a sort of a petition and a joint letter and all go to Mazaya or we can send it to them through Dubai Courts (costs about 700aed so if we are 20 lets say would be pennies each) this is far more formal. 

I am ready to meet with you guys anytime next week preferably somewhere in Burdubai.

For any of you outside of Dubai you can provide your name and unit# to the petition we submit


----------



## aldsouza

Name : Alban D'Souza
Unit : R002 QueuePoint - Liwan
Payment : 70% paidup thru' person loans
Email : [email protected]
Cell : 050-7350849

Keep me in the loop for any meeting with Mazaya for our compensation for the delay.


----------



## davehobbs

I joined the Yahoo Qpoint group a few days ago, and have now joined this group having just heard about it today. I have found it informative to read the posts to date although there is clearly a lot of uncertainty at the moment. 

I live mostly in Turkey but have a base in Leeds, UK. I have paid 45% but ignored a request from Mazaya in mid-December to pay the next instalment of 25%. Instead I sent them a letter formally requesting return of the 45% to me on the basis of clause 5.7. To date I have had no reply from them. 

A friend of mine in Dubai who originally set me up with the purchase has started following this up with Mazaya and with a solicitor on my behalf. It does seem though it would be better to work collectively now that I have found out there is a group of people in the same position. 

The initial comments from our solicitor on seeing clause 5.7 were that it was clear-cut and that he could act on it if we gave the go-ahead.


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

unknownpleasures said:


> ^^^^^^
> 
> Mark any way of finding out what "profit rate" and those Key Benefits actually mean?...
> 
> Any idea about the Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank Escrow Account? Are there any key profit rates?
> 
> On a slightly different note but related to escrow...the information posted on the ADCB'S website states the following and where it clearly provides when escrow came into effect - 2007!!! :
> 
> 
> ^^^^
> As we all know escrow was mandated in 2007, the problem is I am aware of investors funds never being placed into escrow in 2007 and this continued!...I can't see the transparency that is provided as some sort of safetynet when this didn't happen.
> 
> It's in black and white here as well (SINCE 2007) and where I am aware of instances of monies never being deposited into escrow and their SPA's are from July 2007 onwards...
> 
> I am very concerned (as everyone should be also) as to why RERA has not prosecuted any developer who has not adhered to the regulations set out by RERA when I know in many instances where RERA has been notified about this! To date they have done nothing, no response of any kind!
> 
> What to do?


I believe RERA is mum on this issue as they failed to properly implement and manage the escrow account law. They secretly excempted numerous property developers from this law, e.g. Nakheel and Emaar, while they neglected to enforce the law on other developers. And for the funds that actually made it into the escrow accounts, what is the mechanism to actually verify that the funds were properly used only for the intended development ? There is a dead dog buried here. RERA as an institution is a great idea but sorely in need of a management shakeup and a revaluation of it's intended initial function, not solely for the sake of flippers or disgruntled investors but for Dubai's general reputation as property investment option. I can live with the natural ebb and flow of property prices due supply and demand but I believe property values are further negatively affected due RERA's lack of transparency and non adherence to exhisting property laws...


----------



## liwanowner

This is a brilliant gathering of people with similar concerns. We should all certainly meet up and soon.

But before that...some (depressing) updates. After nearly a month, the lethargic, utterly useless customer service people from Mazaya finally responded and their answers were vague and frankly, at tangents to what I asked them initially. For the benefit of everyone else, I am putting the entire mail (my questions and their utterly stupid, stupid responses) right here:

My email to them and their answers in RED:

1 - There has been a significant delay in the delivery of this project (I was one of the initial investors who had put in the down payment along with launch of R069 in phase 1 in 2007, I was moved to phase 2 and building R004 due to a mistake in the master plan) but Mazaya has not officially acknowledged this delay to me yet. Forwarding me a letter from RERA, especially in Arabic, a language I do not understand, is not the answer to my question. The delay affects me as investor and my plans, especially when I have been consistent in my payments. How will Mazaya be compensating for this overlong delay? 
There will not be any compensation .

2 - What guarantees are being given that the project will actually be delivered on the new date of 4th July 2011? To say that this is approved by RERA is not enough, since the original delivery date was also approved by RERA and then superseded by this new delivery date. 
I hope you have received the Q-Point Update letter. Please find it attached it will give you more insight on the completion.

3 - What is the impact of NOT meeting this new target? As per the orignal original SPA, if the original target date for delivery was not met (December 2010) then all of the invested money would be returned without interest. Well, what happens if you do not meet this new target date of July 2011, of which I am very skeptical. 
The attached letter dated 20 December 2010 in which we have laid out the reasons for the unforeseen delay. Please note that the cancelation of the sales agreement is not possible .All of our rights are hereby reserved.

4 - What happens if a newer delivery date is announced mid next year (very likely given the track record of your development)? 
Same as point 2.

5 - What stops you and RERA (who both seem to be working and making decisions for the benefit of each other, not your investors) from revising the payment plan yet again? This is the third payment plan change since the start of the project and the second that I have received this year. Why should I pay more than the status of the project? Telling me that RERA has approved it is not the answer I am looking for! 
The fact is that the payment plan has been approved by RERA. Making payments against your unit is at your discretion however you will continue to receive all the reminders /notices as per our policy till the payment is settled.

6 - What is the status on the infrastructure work of this project, including but not limited to:
- Roads
- Water
- Electricity
Master Developer is responsible for infrastructure.

7 - In light of the above, what is the validity of the actual signed SPA which states that delivery of the project will be done, with a possibility of a 12 month maximum delay, in December 2010? To me, it is now an invalid document (since you have breached your side of the agreement, not me as an investor who has been paying regularly) and if it is invalid should I now not sign a new agreement or document that explicitly specifies the new delivery date of 4th July 2011 and the consequences of not being able to deliver by this date clearly stated in this document? 
Same as above.

8 - Who is the master developer of this project? At the time of purchase it was Mizin but Mizin no longer exists. The company has closed down. It's website is no longer in existence either. Please save me from the embarrassment of telling me that the company does exist - I know it doesn't because I used to work for Tatweer, the parent company of Mizin, which is also no longer in existence. All of Mizin's projects were transferred to Dubai Properties Group, but Liwan was not one of them (there is no mention of it on Dubai Property Groups website). I intend to speak to whoever the new master developers are myself once you have provided me this information. 
Mizin.

9 - A lot of the ancillary projects associated with Queue Point have now stopped or ceased development. This had included projects in the community such as mosques, schools, malls etc. As per RERA's website, all of these are on hold and no development has stared (and likely, never will). In light of this fact, how am I being compensated as an investor who had initially paid his money to live in a community that had other associated projects, but now has to live with just apartment buildings in the community? 
Same as point 6.

10 - Finally, how am I being compensated for being a consistent investor. I have always paid on time, despite the ridiculous legal threats I have received (pay in 7 days or else...blah, blah) but have not received anything except pure agony in return for my efforts. Why should I continue to pay and not get a lawyer, who I have already spoken to, to sue your company for breach of contract and get back all of my invested money (this is my legal right, as per the contract that I signed with your organization). 
Same as point 1.


----------



## liwanowner

Please, lets get as many people as we can and lets meet up sometime this weekend. I am ok to meet anytime after 6pm on work days and pretty much any time on weekends (Friday only for me unfortunately). Let's not delay, Mazaya is just asking for trouble.


----------



## liwanowner

Also, does any one know what are the consequences of not making payments. I intend to only make payments when the project milestone reaches the amount that I've paid. What harm do I do myself this way? At present, I have paid 60% for my project which is at around 53% completion and will not pay anything till it reaches at least 60% completion.


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## liwanowner

P.S. I like the idea of taking this to the press. Gulf News Express is your key. No sources or contacts needed. If you want, I will drop them an email, but lets discuss this particular aspect in more detail once we've met so that we can be specific about what exactly it is we are trying to bring awareness about and what objectives we want to achieve.


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## investor101

Dima, i fully agree with you. If you know of any way to get this spilled out, then let's do it soon. 

I have spoken to Tamweel and was informed that in case I would want to proceed with the termination, I should contact Mazaya since according to them they are just a financing company and would not interfere in cases like this. I then contacted Mazaya and again was informed to take it up with Tamweel since the relationship is between Mazaya and Tamweel. They obviously are passing the ball towards each other and would not want to take responsibility on the matter. 

I believe that for those us who have availed of Tamweel's financing, we should approach Tamweel and ask that it should represent us in case we would want to terminate our contract.

Liwanowner, from what I understand, you are required to make payments only based on the percentage of completion. If you will not pay, then they might consider you in default. You can probably ask the legal section of RERA as to how you can go about this.

I can come on 15 January 2011 in Burjuman.


----------



## julienemtzek

Dima: if u can get it to the press that would be greaat!!!

15th of Jan is Fine by me too.

Julie


----------



## liwanowner

I'm ok for 15th Jan as well. Venue is ok too, except Burjuman has paid parking unless you spend a ridiculously high amount, so another venue even in the same vicinity will do.

Regarding the press - I say we hold on to that till we have decided, in very clear terms, what we want to achieve by this. If this is going to be nothing more than news about yet another delay on a project, there are literally hundreds of those floating around. We need to clearly list out what we disagree with and what we want rectified. For starters, I would be ok with the delay if the payment plan was tied to milestone and not 20% ahead of it. I would advise others here to do the same i.e. list their expectations of what they want to achieve by going to the press.


----------



## Pleth

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> I believe RERA is mum on this issue as they failed to properly implement and manage the escrow account law. They secretly excempted numerous property developers from this law, e.g. Nakheel and Emaar, while they neglected to enforce the law on other developers. And for the funds that actually made it into the escrow accounts, what is the mechanism to actually verify that the funds were properly used only for the intended development ? There is a dead dog buried here. RERA as an institution is a great idea but sorely in need of a management shakeup and a revaluation of it's intended initial function, not solely for the sake of flippers or disgruntled investors but for Dubai's general reputation as property investment option. I can live with the natural ebb and flow of property prices due supply and demand but I believe property values are further negatively affected due RERA's lack of transparency and non adherence to exhisting property laws...


 Very well said. ^^

"They secretly excempted numerous property developers from this law, e.g. Nakheel and Emaar, while they neglected to enforce the law on other developers." Some people call it corruption.


----------



## Imre

*Dubai tenants in ‘flight to quality’*

*Increased supply of high quality stock at affordable rates moves tenants – apartment rents record lowest Q-on-Q fall in 2010 indicating signs of stability says Asteco Q4 2010 report *










According to the latest report by leading Dubai-based property management company Asteco, an increased supply of high quality, affordable accommodation, particularly in the apartment sector provided the catalyst for considerable tenant movement across Dubai in Q4 2010. In addition apartment rental rates declined by just 3% during the same period, the lowest quarter-on-quarter fall during the year, an indication that the market is showing signs of stabilisation. 

“The real estate market is characterised by a large supply of high quality stock at affordable rates, leading to a flight-to-quality trend currently seen across Dubai. Apartment rates have dropped 17% on average during 2010 and this has brought a number of upscale developments within the reach of mid-income budgets,” commented Elaine Jones, CEO, Asteco Property Management.

Indeed although apartment rental rates fell last year, it was still less than the 24% rents fell in 2009, further indication that market prices are stabilising. According to the report, International City has seen the largest drop due to tenants migrating to better quality developments in more desirable locations. Overall studios experienced the lowest decline and one-bedroom apartments suffered the largest fall.

“Rents are expected to continue their downward trend in 2011, albeit at a lower rate as more supply enters the market, providing prospective tenants with even greater choice,” added Jones.

Villa rental rates fared better than apartments in Q4 2010, falling by just 1% over the three month period, primarily due to the limited availability in central areas. Quality communities such as Palm Jumeirah and Jumeirah Islands performed better than more mature developments such as The Springs and The Meadows.

Unsurprisingly, office rental rates fell by 8% in Q4 2010. DIFC set the tone by reducing their rates per square foot from AED370 in the first quarter of 2010 to AED230 in Q4 (a fall of 22%) in an attempt to compete more favourably with quality developments on Sheikh Zayed Road such as Rolex Tower and Sama Tower. 

Continued delivery of new stock in JLT and Tecom sent rents down by 20% and 12% respectively. Although transaction activity has picked up due to the improving economy, continued oversupply will no doubt put further downward pressure on rental rates. In contrast office sales prices only declined by 6% in Q4 and just 8% during the whole of 2010, predominantly due to weak transaction activity. Prices will remain subdued due to a lack of investor confidence.

*Asteco Dubai Q4 Report 2010.pdf (10 pages)* :

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2011/01/asteco-dubai-q4-report-2010pdf.html

Full text here:

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2011/01/dubai-tenants-in-flight-to-quality.html


----------



## unknownpleasures

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> I believe RERA is mum on this issue as they failed to properly implement and manage the escrow account law. They secretly excempted numerous property developers from this law, e.g. Nakheel and Emaar, while they neglected to enforce the law on other developers. And for the funds that actually made it into the escrow accounts, what is the mechanism to actually verify that the funds were properly used only for the intended development ? There is a dead dog buried here. RERA as an institution is a great idea but sorely in need of a management shakeup and a revaluation of it's intended initial function, not solely for the sake of flippers or disgruntled investors but for Dubai's general reputation as property investment option. I can live with the natural ebb and flow of property prices due supply and demand but I believe property values are further negatively affected due RERA's lack of transparency and non adherence to exhisting property laws...


^^^^
Agree!


----------



## R004Owner

I would also like to meet up on the 15th of Jan at 6:00 pm kindly confirm venue if not to be Burjuman ... looking forward to your response.


----------



## shakka

Advise please. I have received a notice via my agent from Palm District Cooling requesting monies? They want a deposit, set up charge & capacity charge as
well as consumption meter service fee etc. I have let this apartment to a tenant.

What parts other than consumption should the tenant be paying?

Any light on this matter is much appreciated.

(Moderators- Apologies If this is in the wrong section please advise if so where a post like this should go)


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Re-emergence of key lenders such as Tamweel in the market is bolstering investor confidence in Dubai’s property market, while migration, albeit slow, of large multinational ﬁrms signals “better time ahead”, says an international real estate consultancy.

“Mortgage lenders are now offering attractive rates to credit-worthy clients wishing to purchase quality stock. With the re-emergence of Tamweel, as well as a number of keylenders in the market, investor conﬁdence has been bolstered within speciﬁc locations and developments,” Cluttons Middle East said in its fourth quarter 2010 report on Dubai.

“Lenders have become shrewder as to the developments on which they choose to lend, including stricter criteria based on the developer’s reputation, speciﬁcation and location.”

Tamweel, the Islamic home mortgage, is receiving adequate funding from Dubai IslamicBank (DIB) to support its business growth, as it focuses on booking high-quality portfolio of select customers and properties, company’s interim CEO Varun Sood told Emirates 24/7 in November.

In contrast, a UAE Central Bank data reveals that mortgages offered by the country’s banks grew by a mere Dh4.16 billion, or 2.6 per cent, between June and October 2010.

Clutton believes the recent announcement by Merck Serono, a pharmaceutical giant, to relocate its intercontinental ofﬁces from Geneva to Dubai is a signal of “better times ahead.”

“This is an encouraging sign, as Dubai’s affordability starts to make an impact. The key to medium term success is focusing on quality property maintenance and fostering the tenant-client relationship through a flexible approach to leasing,” the report said.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...for-dubai-s-realty-market-2011-01-09-1.339870


----------



## unknownpleasures

All that glitters in MEP is copper

By Gerhard Hope

* Monday, 10 January 2011 12:00 AM



> “It started at a fair high of US$6 900/t, troughed between US$6-8 000/t for the first two quarters of 2010, and from then on hit a rampant vertical climb.”
> 
> “[The price] is at an all-time high,” stresses Aittis.





http://www.arabianbusiness.com/all-that-glitters-in-mep-is-copper-372260.html


----------



## unknownpleasures

MarkWass said:


> *^^ ‘Profit rate’ or ‘credit fees’ basically means ‘interest’.*
> 
> *I have no idea about ADCB, but would like to know the answer to that as well as they are one of the escrow managers in a project that I have paid a lot of money towards.*
> 
> *FYI… on the subject of who gets the interest (or ‘profit rate’ or ‘credit fees’), the point that others raised on this and other forums. I think this was a critical point. As if it is the respective developer, then that would be another reason for delay, if they are earning money without doing anything. I sent Tamweel an email asking who earns this money, as I assumed it is the developer. Anyway their reply is below. As you can see, their answer is basically: *
> 
> *‘we’re not telling…. ask RERA or the Land Dept’,*
> 
> *which seems a bit bizarre…*
> 
> *Mark*
> 
> 
> *From:* @Tamweel.ae
> *Sent:* 12 December 2010 05:38
> *To:* MW
> *Subject:* RE: ESCROW ACCOUNT:
> 
> Dear Mr.
> 
> Tamweel acts as an account TRUSTEE to this Escrow account ONLY. Tamweel is not in a position to answer such queries, Kindly request you to approach the regulators (RERA or Land Department) for resolution of your queries.
> 
> 
> Regards@Tamweel.ae
> 
> 
> 
> *From:* MW
> *Sent:* Friday, December 10, 2010 7:47 PM
> *To:* @Tamweel.ae
> *Cc:*
> *Subject:* RE: ESCROW ACCOUNT:
> 
> Dear
> 
> Please can you confirm whether the money that your bank is holding in escrow account for the project earns interest (or credit fees)?
> 
> And who is receiving this interest?
> 
> Many Thanks


^^^^
Thanks Mark for you very well informed post! 

The Sgt Shultz responses! the shrugging of shoulders! Ahhh yes know many who have come across this just by the simple avoidance they have all faced... the buyers are used to it! 

All is well known...the only way is to keep them on their toes and hopefully to bring about transparency that has been lacking to date, (the little old may one day get justice)!...The more the merrier!


----------



## QpointR004

Dear All,

I've been a silent witness to all the action on this blog for a long time. I am a property owner in R004 & am suffering like everyone else. I would like to join the group meeting on Jan 15. Will it be OK if i am there by 6:30 pm??


----------



## bizzybonita

*Affordable quality units makes Dubai realty sector more attractive*

The real estate report for the Dubai market for Q4 2010 by Cluttons, the London-based property broker, revealed that the investors seem more confident about the Dubai real estate market now, particularly in certain locations. Moreover, with the re-emergence of major lenders such as Tamweel, one of the largest Islamic mortgage lenders, who have been offering attractive rates to credit-worthy clients seeking to purchase quality stock, investors are showing increased confidence.

However, the Cluttons reported that the residential sector in Dubai recorded a fall in prices by 5.1% during fourth quarter of 2010, in comparison to that of previous three months. The prices of villa dropped 5.1percent, while those of apartments dropped 2.4percent in the fourth quarter, in comparison to that of third quarter.

According to Cluttons, about 35,000 new homes will be ready in Dubai within next two years. But, with increased supply, drop in values will be inevitable. But there is increased demand for quality homes, as sales and rental markets in good locations are getting more affordable. 

The lifestyle projects, including the Old Town, Palm Jumeirah, Dubai Marina, The Meadows, and The Greens are continuing to be more resilient in both sales and leasing market. With the buyers now being able to afford quality homes in better locations, the reputation of Dubai real estate market is growing, according to Cluttons report. 

As for the commercial sector, with the current construction and completion of commercial projects within Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT), Business Bay, Tecom, Business Bay and Silicon Oasis, there is a downward pressure on rents in most areas of the city. Localities such as Deira, Bur Dubai and Sheikh Zayed Road are maintaining healthier levels. 

Pointing out to the migration of multinationalss such as Merck Serono, the Swiss pharmaceutical giant, Cluttons says that this is an encouraging trend as Dubai's affordability has begun to make an impact. 

However, the decline in office rents will continue as long as fresh supplies keep flowing into the market. The commercial rents dropped 9% on an average over the past quarter, with Tecom and DIFC being the only exceptions, the report said.


----------



## True Blue

unknownpleasures said:


> All that glitters in MEP is copper
> 
> By Gerhard Hope
> 
> * Monday, 10 January 2011 12:00 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/all-that-glitters-in-mep-is-copper-372260.html


Are you drawing a comparison between the price fluctuations/volatility of copper and the fluctuations/volatility in the price of Dubai Real Estate?:dunno:


----------



## unknownpleasures

*Pay problems still blight Gulf construction firms*
By Benjamin Roberts

* Wednesday, 12 January 2011 2:02 PM



> Nearly half of Gulf-based construction firms and contractors have said getting paid remains their chief problem in 2011, a sign the credit problems plaguing the sector are showing little sign of letting up.
> 
> More than 43 percent of respondents to a survey by ArabianBusiness.com’s sister website, Construction Week, said pinning down payment for projects was their biggest fear – significantly more than the 25 percent who said securing new work was their top concern.
> 
> Around 14 percent said planning for the year ahead was top of their agenda, while 10.4 percent prioritised company longevity and 6.2 percent project completion.
> 
> Some of the region’s largest construction players said securing payment amid tight credit lines remains a challenge, despite signs of recovery in the sector.
> 
> Peyman Mohajer, managing director at Ramboll Middle East, a broad-service design consultancy, said much time and energy has been used up chasing unpaid fees - despite projects nearing completion.
> 
> Andre Tufenkjian, partner at Dubai-based JCB Engineering & Consulting, also said the company has seen some slowdowns in payment.
> 
> Paul Grundy, owner of S&B, the temporary hoarding and fencing manufacturer, said there had been a marginal improvement in collecting fees in 2010 compared with 2009.
> 
> “We are able to cherry-pick the clients that we know have cash and we’re going to get paid,” he said in November.
> 
> But the head of GTCC, a civil engineering subsidiary of Drake & Scull International, said the company had not encountered payment problems, and the key was to establish clarity between contractor and client at the outset.
> 
> "If [a client] says, 'this is what I am able to do and that is my cash flow and I want to base your price, your cost, your preliminaries according to my cash flow', then there shouldn't be any issue," said Saleh Muradweij, executive director.


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Landlords forfeiting rent deposits to make up for lost yields*



> _Land Department Rent Tribunal is the way to go for affected tenants_
> 
> By Shuchita Kapur | Published Wednesday, January 12, 2011
> 
> Lower rents have definitely given a breather to tenants in Dubai but a new menace is cropping up. Many tenants, who wish to vacate, are facing difficulties in getting the refund of their security deposits, which they had to pay to the landlord.
> 
> Real estate companies confirm that there are cases where tenants are complaining that landlords are forfeiting their security deposit to make up for the lost rental yields.
> 
> “What we’ve experienced are tenants having a challenging time getting their deposits back; some are waiting as long as three months. While the responsibility of deposit cheques recovery is up to the tenant, we inevitably get involved since clients do come back to us for help on the issue. We assisted at least one client with a deposit cheque recovery,” Leah James, Manager-Residential Sales & Leasing, Barsha Office of Better Homes told Emirates 24|7.
> 
> According to some experts, this is not a new problem in the rental market but yes, the current environment seems to have aggravated it.
> 
> “This is nothing new. Landlords have been doing this all the time, but, yes, it does appear to be getting worse,” Charles Neil, CEO of Landmark Properties confirmed.
> 
> However, some experts in the industry believe that this is not the case. “Security deposit is refundable only subject to any damage caused by the tenant or in the event there are any outstanding dues. Security deposit has nothing to do with lost rental yields,” Vineet Kumar, Head of Business Development- Dubai at Asteco Property Management said.
> 
> For those tenants who have been at the receiving end and are struggling to get their money back, Neil has a word of advice.
> 
> “As a last resort you can now go to the Land Department Rent Tribunal and make a complaint if you feel you have been unfairly treated.
> 
> “To avoid such a problem occurring in the first place, we recommend you lease a property that is property managed and has been registered on the new RERA Ejari system, so that the property management company can check the unit out before you move in and when you move out, and agree with you that any payment out of the deposit is to cover repairs caused by any damage done by the tenant, after taking into account ordinary wear and tear.”


http://www.emirates247.com/property...o-make-up-for-lost-yields-2011-01-12-1.341186


----------



## SUR

Having met a few figures of authority in Dubai my only conclusion is that they are completly incapable of resolving this. They live in a fantasy where they go about in their ignorant and pompous attitude thinking everyone except another arab of the same clan is regarded as below them. We all know what happens to nations like that and it isn't nice.


----------



## NAWAB

Please advise what happens if I dont pay. PAid 55 % till now. My bldg is R 99


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## NAWAB

*Hi*

Since we are meeting on 15.01.2011 and talk and discuss.

I spoke to lady in Mizin

call me or give me your mob .\

My Mob : 050 6617511



liwanowner said:


> This is a brilliant gathering of people with similar concerns. We should all certainly meet up and soon.
> 
> But before that...some (depressing) updates. After nearly a month, the lethargic, utterly useless customer service people from Mazaya finally responded and their answers were vague and frankly, at tangents to what I asked them initially. For the benefit of everyone else, I am putting the entire mail (my questions and their utterly stupid, stupid responses) right here:
> 
> My email to them and their answers in RED:
> 
> 1 - There has been a significant delay in the delivery of this project (I was one of the initial investors who had put in the down payment along with launch of R069 in phase 1 in 2007, I was moved to phase 2 and building R004 due to a mistake in the master plan) but Mazaya has not officially acknowledged this delay to me yet. Forwarding me a letter from RERA, especially in Arabic, a language I do not understand, is not the answer to my question. The delay affects me as investor and my plans, especially when I have been consistent in my payments. How will Mazaya be compensating for this overlong delay?
> There will not be any compensation .
> 
> 2 - What guarantees are being given that the project will actually be delivered on the new date of 4th July 2011? To say that this is approved by RERA is not enough, since the original delivery date was also approved by RERA and then superseded by this new delivery date.
> I hope you have received the Q-Point Update letter. Please find it attached it will give you more insight on the completion.
> 
> 3 - What is the impact of NOT meeting this new target? As per the orignal original SPA, if the original target date for delivery was not met (December 2010) then all of the invested money would be returned without interest. Well, what happens if you do not meet this new target date of July 2011, of which I am very skeptical.
> The attached letter dated 20 December 2010 in which we have laid out the reasons for the unforeseen delay. Please note that the cancelation of the sales agreement is not possible .All of our rights are hereby reserved.
> 
> 4 - What happens if a newer delivery date is announced mid next year (very likely given the track record of your development)?
> Same as point 2.
> 
> 5 - What stops you and RERA (who both seem to be working and making decisions for the benefit of each other, not your investors) from revising the payment plan yet again? This is the third payment plan change since the start of the project and the second that I have received this year. Why should I pay more than the status of the project? Telling me that RERA has approved it is not the answer I am looking for!
> The fact is that the payment plan has been approved by RERA. Making payments against your unit is at your discretion however you will continue to receive all the reminders /notices as per our policy till the payment is settled.
> 
> 6 - What is the status on the infrastructure work of this project, including but not limited to:
> - Roads
> - Water
> - Electricity
> Master Developer is responsible for infrastructure.
> 
> 7 - In light of the above, what is the validity of the actual signed SPA which states that delivery of the project will be done, with a possibility of a 12 month maximum delay, in December 2010? To me, it is now an invalid document (since you have breached your side of the agreement, not me as an investor who has been paying regularly) and if it is invalid should I now not sign a new agreement or document that explicitly specifies the new delivery date of 4th July 2011 and the consequences of not being able to deliver by this date clearly stated in this document?
> Same as above.
> 
> 8 - Who is the master developer of this project? At the time of purchase it was Mizin but Mizin no longer exists. The company has closed down. It's website is no longer in existence either. Please save me from the embarrassment of telling me that the company does exist - I know it doesn't because I used to work for Tatweer, the parent company of Mizin, which is also no longer in existence. All of Mizin's projects were transferred to Dubai Properties Group, but Liwan was not one of them (there is no mention of it on Dubai Property Groups website). I intend to speak to whoever the new master developers are myself once you have provided me this information.
> Mizin.
> 
> 9 - A lot of the ancillary projects associated with Queue Point have now stopped or ceased development. This had included projects in the community such as mosques, schools, malls etc. As per RERA's website, all of these are on hold and no development has stared (and likely, never will). In light of this fact, how am I being compensated as an investor who had initially paid his money to live in a community that had other associated projects, but now has to live with just apartment buildings in the community?
> Same as point 6.
> 
> 10 - Finally, how am I being compensated for being a consistent investor. I have always paid on time, despite the ridiculous legal threats I have received (pay in 7 days or else...blah, blah) but have not received anything except pure agony in return for my efforts. Why should I continue to pay and not get a lawyer, who I have already spoken to, to sue your company for breach of contract and get back all of my invested money (this is my legal right, as per the contract that I signed with your organization).
> Same as point 1.


----------



## Mission is back

hi all

I am moving out of my apartment in 2 months and just wanted to see if anyone has got anything available for about 50k. PM message me if you have specially my timeplace buddies


----------



## True Blue

Parisian Girl said:


> http://www.emirates247.com/property...o-make-up-for-lost-yields-2011-01-12-1.341186


Some landlords are obviously just thugs. Eventually succesful renting will be down to proper vetting of both tenants and landlords.

Successful letting will be all about the three L's. Location, lifestyle and landlords 

BTW, all of the above will be available soon via a spacious 1 bed furnished let in The Jewels twin towers Dubai Marina.


----------



## bizzybonita

*Fresh News !!! "translate by Google.com"*

Determine the rates of increase in the rental of real estate in Dubai 



*His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister and Ruler 
In his capacity as Ruler of Dubai Emirate of Dubai, Decree No. (2) for the year 2011 on rental property in the Emirate of Dubai*, where he was in the first article that is determined by the maximum rate of increase in rental real estate in the Emirate of 
Dubai real estate for units leased before the date of this Decree as follows. 

- Without any increase in rental value of the unit instead of real estate if the lease is less than 25 Cent of the average wage goes. 

-5 Percent of the rental value of the unit if the real estate instead of renting at least a rate ranging between 26 per cent to 35 per cent of the average wage goes. 

-10 Per cent of the rental value of the unit if the real estate instead of renting at least a rate ranging between 36 per cent to 45 per cent of the average wage goes. 

-15 Per cent of the rental value of the unit if the real estate instead of renting at least a rate ranging between 46 per cent to 55 per cent of the average wage goes. 

-20 Per cent of the rental value of the unit real estate rental if the rental rate of at least More than 55 per cent of the average wage goes. 

In a second article that for the purposes of applying the first article of this decree, the average wage is determined Ideals and in accordance with the selection pointer instead of rents in the emirate accredited institution Nadhim real estate, to be The decree is effective from the date of issue on the tenth of January and publish the official gazette.


أصدر صاحب السمو الشيخ محمد بن راشد آل مكتوم نائب رئيس الدولة رئيس مجلس الوزراء حاكم دبي بصفته حاكم إمارة دبي، المرسوم رقم (2) لسنة 2011 بشأن بدل إيجار العقارات في إمارة دبي، حيث جاء في المادة الأولى أن تتحدد نسبة الزيادة القصوى في بدل إيجار العقارات في إمارة دبي بالنسبة للوحدات العقارية المؤجرة قبل تاريخ العمل بهذا المرسوم على النحو التالي.​ بدون أية زيادة في القيمة الإيجارية للوحدة العقارية إذا كان بدل إيجارها يقل عن 25 في المائة من متوسط أجر المثل.

في 5 المائة من القيمة الإيجارية للوحدة العقارية إذا كان بدل إيجارها يقل بنسبة تتراوح بين 26 في المائة وحتى 35 في المائة من متوسط أجر المثل.

في 10 المائة من القيمة الإيجارية للوحدة العقارية إذا كان بدل إيجارها يقل بنسبة تتراوح بين 36 في المائة وحتى 45 في المائة من متوسط أجر المثل.

في 15 المائة من القيمة الإيجارية للوحدة العقارية إذا كان بدل إيجارها يقل بنسبة تتراوح بين 46 في المائة وحتى 55 في المائة من متوسط أجر المثل.

في 20 المائة من القيمة الإيجارية للوحدة العقارية المؤجرة إذا كان بدل الإيجار يقل بنسبة تزيد على 55 في المائة من متوسط أجر المثل.

وجاء في المادة الثانية أنه لغايات تطبيق المادة الأولى من هذا المرسوم، يتحدد متوسط أجر المثل وفقا لمؤشر تحديد بدل الإيجارات في الإمارة المعتمد لدى مؤسسة النظيم العقاري، على أن يعمل بهذا المرسوم اعتبارا من تاريخ صدوره في العاشر من يناير الجاري وينشر بالجريدة الرسمية.​
http://www.emaratalyoum.com/business/local/2011-01-13-1.341916


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.emirates247.com/property...g-first-to-recover-in-gcc-2011-01-11-1.340676


----------



## gerald.d

Rent cap related to average wage this year?

That's a new one. Or is it just a bad translation?


----------



## bizzybonita

Yes, yes . NO


----------



## Porcello

bizzybonita said:


> Yes, yes . NO


Correction: No, no, yes.

It's not average wage, but average rental index. Nothing new under the sun.


----------



## scottyxcameron

They have final design approval and are apparently waiting for some 'special' steel to be delivered for the bridge. Doesn't explain why the final 2 floors have not been poured on Tower B. Rufi are still in town at least, so there is still a chance we'll get something to show for our patience.

For me it's gone from a medium term to a long term to a very long term investment. At least I paid for it (mostly) before the exchange rate crashed in '08. You win some, you lose some.


----------



## bizzybonita

sydneyjay said:


> *Simple answer; the market will continue to fragment.
> 
> The rubbish locations, the rubbish towers and rubbish layouts/views will remain empty as tenants become educated and choosy.
> 
> If you have an awful, small 2 bed with no view in somewhere like DEC or Point with a awful fit out, it will remain empty, whilst the panoramic marina view apartments in quality developments like Silverene and Marinascape become sought after.
> 
> Places like Jumeirah Village, International City, Discovery Gardens and to a lesser degree Business Bay will be like ghost towns, while the marina fills up.
> 
> Also the super tall area of the marina will struggle badly, except for the larger high panoramic ocean view apartments which will always have a demand.
> 
> So, these worries about over supply don't really apply so much to the quality buildings and the quality apartments with front line views in the marina.
> 
> Silverene will be without doubt one of the most sought after rental locations in the marina, if not the number one because of its combination of quality fit out and location, with no adjacent construction and ease of access.
> 
> No worries mate! *:cheers:





PaulDubai said:


> But there is now an oversupply of the better located towers too...
> The Marina is certainly loosing its appeal and and it will become a cheap place to live, attracting the lower earning bracket. I can see the Marina becoming like Torremolinos....The Palm will be the place to be.





sydneyjay said:


> There will always be a demand for the quality towers in the Marina. Palm will remain popular but more to a niche with lower total demand because of the lack of infrastructure.
> 
> The Marina Mall, Yacht Club, Metro and sheer number of quality established hotels with bars/clubs and restaurants will keep the Marina well ahead of the Palm for rental demand in the short and medium term.





Sarah DXB said:


> In my view demand for a quality developments in the Palm, Marina or Dubai Old Town will always be there. The choice between them is really just a matter of personal preference rather than the fact. To me more important question is whether or not rental yields will remain attractive enough. I think over supply will further erode yields for the next 2-3 years at least.. Getting a tenant is one thing, making it a good investment out of rental game may be a totally different ball game...


What awaful your'e talking about Mr.sydneyjay  See how it choosy then

Most of the time , mind of tenants prefer the facilities of tower rather than the Quality !

What makes DEC Tower better then other towers on Palm Jumeriah projects which is a ghost town till this moments ! 

Only a jugging track + Hypersupermarket +Olympic swimming pool + Tennis court ++DOUBLE MALL (IBN BATTUTA MALL , MARINA MALL ) +++ *Cheap rent* and the new Dubai Plan 3030 behind them .

I don't know if tenants choosy like quality tower with high price and no facilities ! it gonna be mission impossible :lol: such as most of palm Jumeriah towers .

as investment If you check the original price of DEC Twin Towers it was joke compare it with other high quality Dubai Marina Projects....

Now we all as quality towers or not on the same levels of rent prices if not only 5k more . 

To me it's a safe investment ! i'm not worry about oversupply ... one of 5 tennis courts of overall Dubai marina projects will close deal of DEC tower as one of good investment with little change layout of flat that's it .

PS: Tell me how is going to rent flat on any of plam jumeriah 2 or 3 beds when prices so close to Burj khalifa Tower  Don't forget high services charge . (no mid-class of lifestyle on PJ that's why it's vacancy + only few high class of experts ) 

Yesterday was a tenant's Favor Today no tenant's at all !


----------



## bizzybonita

Porcello said:


> Correction: No, no, yes.
> 
> It's not average wage, but average rental index. Nothing new under the sun.


let us wait the full info from RERA then


----------



## unknownpleasures

*Desperate Dubai landlords try to lure tenants*

In a bid to lure tenants and buyers, property owners are offering tempting deals to counter residential oversupply

* By Michelle Sutton, Staff Reporter
* Published: 00:00 January 13, 2011



> Dubai: Desperate landlords are trying to lure tenants and buyers to their properties with lucrative offers to counter Dubai's rental oversupply.
> 
> Radio 2: Nasreen Abdulla reports on landlords trying to attract tenants in Dubai
> Listen!
> 
> * Audio supplied by Radio 2
> 
> A Dh1 million luxury car and a night in the world's tallest tower complete with groceries have been offered as bait as the great rental hunt in the city intensifies. It's prompting New Dubai landlords to offer extravagant deals to outbid each other to secure tenants as a massive surplus of properties outstrips demand.
> 
> Industry sources estimate there might be between 50,000 and 100,000 residential units oversupplied by the end of next year, taking the market years to absorb.
> 
> The Dh1 million 2010 Maserati car was for the buyer of the Dh3.5 million Marina Six Towers apartment. The deal, listed by Powerhouse Properties, has not been taken to date, but is still negotiable.
> 
> Other owners have also become creative to tempt tenants with non-cash offers in a bid to halt the rental price crash.
> 
> Lars Hansen, Owner of Larsen and Hansen Real Estate, said some property owners are offering incentives to tenants like free TV and internet services to stem the fall in rents.
> 
> Some landlords are even willing to pay relocating costs, including packing and transport. Some are bypassing agents to save on commissions and are advertising online.
> 
> Increasing competition
> 
> Hassan Al Shouli, marketing manager of a UAE-based website, said with increasing competition, residential rental listings seem to have doubled in the past three months in Dubai and Abu Dhabi.
> 
> Attention-grabbing deals were witnessed for the first time late last year.
> 
> At that time, the first online deal for a night in the world's tallest tower complete with groceries for $285 (Dh1,045) was offered at www.mydubaistay.com as the landlord was among the estimated 800-odd luxury apartment owners who were unable to secure long-term tenants.
> 
> The website's manager said the offer had to be called off as it upset nearby hotels. Finally, the apartment successfully fetched short-term rentals with a minimum five-night stay deal.
> 
> Real estate agents predicted rents in Dubai will drop for another 12 to 24 months. They are expected to bottom out when rents fail to make up for the "hassle factor" of owners managing repairs, maintenance and associated costs, etc.
> 
> Selling not realistic
> 
> According to Mario Volpi, Leasing Manager of PowerHouse Properties, most owners ideally want to sell rather than rent. However, given the current market, selling was not a realistic option for those who have been forced to rent to offset any debt, he said.
> 
> PowerHouse agent Levent Hassan said the Dh1 million limited edition free luxury Maserati car was on offer as the owner was eager to sell his apartment rather than rent it out.
> 
> However, Hassan said in many cases there is a stand-off between owners who bought in boom time — as they refuse to drop prices — and tenants who are spoilt for choice in the market. He said he has to educate such owners on a daily basis about what to expect in current market situation.
> 
> Volpi and Hassan said Jumeirah Lake Towers and Marina are the most oversupplied areas. They predicted a deadlock when landlords may get fed up with the hassle of renting properties and took them off the market, reducing supply.
> 
> Already, a few landlords who spoke on condition of anonymity said they chose to keep properties vacant as the rental income failed to cover maintenance and services fees and the "hassle factor" was just not worth it.



source http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/h...-dubai-landlords-try-to-lure-tenants-1.745597

^^^^
Where are they gonna find these tenants in the first place! I guess they could all leave where they are now....landlords everywhere should be worried! TV's cars...geez not a bad deal!...well folks the times are a changing! 

I think it's downright ridiculous!

This is what is called panic...oversupply is what has caused this....can you imagine they have enough completed so any off plans will remain unfinished!

Yep no worries!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Rental rates in Abu Dhabi declined for a fourth consecutive quarter as the market absorbed a slew of new stock, a real estate report said Sunday.
Average rental prices at the lower end of the market dropped 16 percent while those in the northern areas of the capital declined eight percent, said property consultancy Cluttons.

Annual rents for one-bedroom apartments in areas such as Mohammed Bin Zayed City are currently around AED50,000 while those in the northern areas are around AED110,000.

A delay in handover of units in Marina Square is doing little to boost confidence in the capital’s real estate sector, said Cluttons.

“The handover of hundreds of units in Marina Square is still awaited, with predictions that owners will not be able to gain access until Q2, 2011. These delays are hindering market confidence which waits in anticipation for the release of stock,” said the report.

House prices in Abu Dhabi have declined 30 percent from their peak while those in neighbouring Dubai have dropped by more than half as speculators fled the market amid the recession.

Rental declines in nearby Dubai slowed in the fourth quarter with average rates falling 3.3 percent for apartments and 3.2 percent for villas, said the report.

Capitalising on cheaper property rents, residents continue to upgrade to higher-end housing in more attractive developments.

“Buyers now have the financial option to upgrade to a better quality unit in a more desirable location,” analysts said.

Lifestyle developments in Dubai however, such as Old Town, Dubai Marina, Palm Jumeirah, The Meadows and Greens, have proved resilient in both sales and leasing markets. 

On the commercial front, rents in Dubai fell nine percent in the fourth quarter while those in Abu Dhabi have dropped 45 percent from their Q3 2008 peaks.
With the threat of new supply on the horizon, landlords of commercial property in both emirates are being forced to offer better tenancy contracts to woo tenants including lower rents, break options and - in some cases - free-rent periods.

“One of the common incentives being seen [in Dubai] is the offering of rent-free periods which have become an automatic feature of most office lettings. The tenant effectively gets the benefit of a lower effective rent, after the value of the incentive is deducted, while the landlord’s property maintains its face rent and a secure long-term tenant,” analysts said.

Dubai’s financial district, DIFC, and TECOM were the only commercial areas in the emirate that remained unaffected by price reductions.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

bizzybonita said:


> let us wait the full info from RERA then


he decree issued by His Highness Shaikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE, in his capacity as Ruler of Dubai, provides clearer and specific guidelines to landlords to implement rent increases. 

The decree replaces an earlier procedure that allowed landlords to implement a flat seven per cent hike if the rentals were more than 25 per cent below the average price index set by Dubai’s Real Estate Regulator Authority or RERA.

The new decree sets the rates of maximum rent increases that can vary from five per cent to 20 per cent depending on the extent of difference between rent value set by the RERA Index and the prevailing rental value.

However, as was in the earlier regulation, any rent hike can only be implemented if the property rent was more than 25 per cent below the average index price.

If the rent was 26 per cent to 35 per cent less than the average rent for a similar property set by the RERA Index, the maximum increase shall be equivalent to five per cent of rent value, according to Wam.

In cases where the rent was 36 per cent to 45 per cent less than the average rent for a similar property, the maximum increase shall be equivalent to 10 per cent of rent value.

If the rent was 46 per cent to 55 per cent less than the average rent for a similar property, the maximum increase shall be equivalent to 15 per cent of rent value.

For properties with a rental rate that was 56 per cent to 55 per cent less than the average rent for a similar property, the maximum increase shall be equivalent to 20 per cent of the rent value.

The decree endorsed the RERA rent index as the main reference to determine the average rent in the emirate.

The decree came into force from the date of its issuance on January 10, 2011 and will be published in the official gazette.

Dubai took the first step to contain rent rally in January 2007 by imposing a cap of seven per cent on rent increases on all properties. The rule was applicable to all rent contracts that were to be renewed in 2007 on the condition that no rent increment was made on that property in 2006.

In December 2009, Shaikh Mohammed issued another decree to set a formula to be used for the rent index. Under the decree, a property’s rent can only be raised if it is at least a quarter below market values determined through an index set by RERA.

The decree endorsed the RERA price index as the reference for setting any increase in rent values in 2010. RERA’s price index, first issued in early 2009, was revised in May the same year to better reflect rent realities.


----------



## unknownpleasures

> Industry sources estimate there might be between 50,000 and 100,000 residential
> units oversupplied by the end of next year, taking the market years to absorb.


^^^^
Isn't this going to be an issue with any type of accommodation --- if there are no tenants then who is going to rent all the empty apartments no matter where they are?


source http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/ho...nants-1.745597


----------



## 234sale

Dubai_Steve said:


> Lifestyle developments in Dubai however, such as Old Town, Dubai Marina, Palm Jumeirah, The Meadows and Greens, have proved resilient in both sales and leasing markets.
> .


RUBBISH - I'm paying 20K less than last year 20K = 20%


----------



## liwanowner

Nawab, my mobile no is (removed by user)

I will be there around 6pm at Burjuman. See you all then.


----------



## agod

974agk said:


> True Blue
> 
> We already did a similar set up with business and assets, just wasn't sure how it works in UAE.
> 
> Appreciate all the comments and sound advice as always.
> 
> Cheers Guys & Thanks
> 
> Eck



set up am offshore company, and put the property into it, both as 50% owners/directors, and that keeps it out of the UAE laws. I dont think you need a will, just if one dies the other takes over, the 50%

I was also told a UK will, will suffice here, if translated into Arabic.

Al.

Alan


----------



## unknownpleasures

Dubai overall debt at least $129.3bn, Credit Suisse says


* Friday, 14 January 2011 8:24 AM




> :
> DEBT WOES: Dubai and its state owned companies have $17.5bn of debt falling due this year, $17bn in 2012, $9.7bn in 2013 and $26bn in 2014
> 
> Dubai and its state owned companies carry at least $129.3bn of debt, of which $50.2bn is owed by Dubai World, the company that completed a loan restructuring in September, Credit Suisse Group said.
> 
> The second largest debt, $28.9bn, is owed by the government itself, the bank said in a research report emailed on Thursday. Investment Corporation of Dubai and Dubai Holding, two other holding companies, as well as other government related firms, account for the remaining $50.2bn, it said.
> 
> The number “comprises publicly disclosed debt of $111.1bn and debt on which disclosure is limited,” London-based analysts Mohamad Hawa and Anton Rozanov said in the research report. “The debt burden could be much higher than our final numbers owing to the lack of full disclosure.”
> 
> Dubai, the second biggest of the seven states in the UAE, had to seek a bailout from neighbouring Abu Dhabi after the global financial crisis pushed property prices down by more than half, and frozen credit markets forced some state owned companies to delay loan payments. Dubai World agreed with creditors in October to restructure $24.9bn of debt.
> 
> The emirate and its state owned companies have $17.5bn of debt falling due this year, $17bn in 2012, $9.7bn in 2013 and $26bn in 2014, according to the report. Another $12.8bn matures in 2015.



source: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai...ml?tab=Article


----------



## unknownpleasures

*Australian firms cash in on Abu Dhabi construction boom*
By Gavin Davids

* Wednesday, 5 January 2011 5:43 PM



> Abu Dhabi’s drive to reinvent itself as a hub of tourism and culture is luring in a fresh wave of Australian firms keen to cash in on the emirate’s lucrative construction deals.
> 
> More than 235 new Australian businesses registered in the UAE during 2010, Raymi van der Spek, chairman of the Australian Business Council, Dubai, said.
> 
> This adds to round 300 Australian companies already based in the country, many of which have shifted their focus from Dubai to the capital in the wake of the emirate’s real estate crash.



http://www.arabianbusiness.com/austr...om-371587.html


----------



## Fakhter

Hello,
I have booked two flats in Queue Points in building R48 and R70. One is financed by Tamweel. One of my friend who is based in UK also have a unit in building R112.
Recently, I have contacted Tamweel about the delay but did not get any response from the customer service supervisor. He had passed the buck to Mazaya.
I have consulted the case with the local lawyer and get a positive response from him. I would appreciate if some knows trust worthy lawyer for second opinion.
Best regards
Fahim


----------



## liwanowner

For the benefit of those who did not make it or those out of town, yesterday's meeting was a success in the sense that a reasonable no of people showed up and we all agreed to next steps. It is in our best interest not to share on a public forum what we intend to do, but those who are interested are encouraged and in fact, recommended to join us for the next meeting which will take place on 23rd January at 6pm (venue still not decided). We have also set up a mailing list and a lot of follow up discussions and outcomes of next steps will be shared using this mailing list.


----------



## unknownpleasures

*Dubai 'German sports star towers’ backer in bankruptcy*

Bradley Hope

Last Updated: Jan 16, 2011



> Financial backers of a Dubai developer that aimed to build towers named after German sports stars including the Formula One driver Michael Schumacher and the tennis champion Boris Becker have declared bankruptcy in Germany.
> 
> Dubai-based investors in properties from the developer Alternative Capital Invest (ACI) have received notices in the past week to file claims as part of the liquidation of several funds in Germany set up to allow investors to take advantage of Dubai's property boom.
> 
> The bankruptcy proceedings of those funds will provide an important guide for how property developments with complex financing arrangements and ownership structures are dealt with as thousands of legal cases over property go through the courts here and abroad, lawyers say. It will also shed light on how successfully foreign courts can compel UAE companies to hand over assets.
> 
> *ACI was known as one of the brashest developers in Dubai's property boom. It launched several celebrity-endorsed buildings, including towers named after Schumacher and fellow F1 driver Niki Lauda. But none of its 17 projects have been completed.*
> 
> *ACI funded its projects through direct sales and several investment funds in Germany, where a founder of the company, Robin Lohmann, is from. Since 2008, cases have been filed against those funds and ACI in Dubai as investors clamoured for the return of their money or completion of the buildings in which they invested.
> *
> Valeri Babak, an investor in the stalled Victory Bay tower in Business Bay, said he received a letter from the liquidator of the fifth of seven funds in Germany asking him to file a claim for what he is owed. The fifth fund, called Alternative Capital Invest GmbH & Co. V. Dubai Tower KG, was associated with Victory Bay.
> 
> The letter said the "insolvent" fund was being liquidated and the local court of the city of Bielefeld in Germany was overseeing the distribution of the company's assets.
> 
> *Mr Lohmann, the managing director of ACI Real Estate in Dubai, did not answer calls or e-mails yesterday. German prosecutors told The National in September that they were investigating the management of ACI amid allegations of fraud and breach of trust.*
> 
> Ludmila Yamalova, a managing partner at HPL Yamalova & Plewka in Dubai, said the impact of the case was still unclear, but the fact that Dubai buyers were starting to receive notices meant legal progress was being made.
> 
> "We are trying to understand what this means for people who invested in these buildings," she said.
> 
> *"What is interesting is that the fund in Germany is being liquidated, but direct buyers of properties in Dubai are being notified as well. We interpret that as ACI Dubai also being insolvent."*
> 
> Ms Yamalova said the courts were beginning to see the first official bankruptcy proceedings for property developers.
> 
> Investors were closely watching the first liquidation in the country for guidance on how the system woud handle redistributions of assets from insolvent companies. Al Murjan Real Estate in Umm al Qaiwain filed for liquidation in November, blaming an inability to get government planning approvals. It collected millions of dirhams in deposits from investors for the US$3 billion (Dh11bn) White Bay project on two islands in the emirate.
> 
> Mr Babak, the investor in Victory Bay, said he would file a claim with the liquidator in Germany but did not believe he would see any of the $800,000 he paid to ACI.
> 
> "I've been talking to them for two years and nothing has happened," he said. "I don't think they have any more assets. All we have been able to do is send letters."


Source: http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/dubai-german-sports-star-towers-backer-in-bankruptcy


----------



## gerald.d

^^Old news. I linked to an article in a German paper about this months back.


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Al Fajer seeks injunction against defaulters*



> _*To take legal action against JLT defaulters; Wins court ruling where defaulter to pay 40% of contract price*_
> 
> By Parag Deulgaonkar | Published Sunday, January 16, 2011
> 
> Al Fajer Properties, a Dubai-based property developer, may seek attachment of assets or an injunction against defaulters if they are not based in the country, a person close to the matter told Emirates 24|7.
> 
> “There is this misconception that ‘we are safe if we are not in the UAE’. Al Fajer has the option to seek attachment of properties or get an injunction against the defaulters if there is a need,” the person said on conditions of anonymity.
> 
> Earlier today, the developer said it would take legal action against customers who have defaulted on payments as part of its move to claim the rightful dues from defaulters in its Jumeirah Business Centre (JBC) towers at the Jumeirah Lakes Towers (JLT) community.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/al-fajer-seeks-injunction-against-defaulters-2011-01-16-1.342773


----------



## unknownpleasures

*Dubai 'German sports star towers’ backer in bankruptcy*

Bradley Hope

Last Updated: Jan 16, 2011

Source: http://www.thenational.ae/business/p...-in-bankruptcy

^^^^^
Sorry,,,I didn't think this was going to cause a problem as it is a recent update!..

I believe I saw it also - September was that it? I believe it's been made official now! You will note that Mr. Lohmann failed to reply yesterday to any of this!~ 

Maybe there are others who bought from ACI would want to know the recent update on *16 January 2011*! Particularly about this being the *first liquidation in the country!*



> ACI was known as one of the brashest developers in Dubai's property boom. It launched several celebrity-endorsed buildings, including towers named after Schumacher and fellow F1 driver Niki Lauda. *But none of its 17 projects have been completed.*
> 
> *Mr Lohmann, the managing director of ACI Real Estate in Dubai, did not answer calls or e-mails yesterday. German prosecutors told The National in September that they were investigating the management of ACI amid allegations of fraud and breach of trust.*
> 
> *Investors were closely watching the first liquidation in the country for guidance on how the system woud handle redistributions of assets from insolvent companies.* Al Murjan Real Estate in Umm al Qaiwain filed for liquidation in November, blaming an inability to get government planning approvals. It collected millions of dirhams in deposits from investors for the US$3 billion (Dh11bn) White Bay project on two islands in the emirate.


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.emirates247.com/news/al-fajer-seeks-injunction-against-defaulters-2011-01-16-1.342773

^^^^^^


> The company claims that in the ruling the judge has ordered a defaulting customer to pay 40 per cent of the contract price to it for defaulting on payments *for their delivered properties in the JBC towers.
> *
> A spokesman for Al Fajer said: "This is a significant turning point for all developers in the UAE *who have delivered on their properties*. The ruling is in line with the Sales and Purchase agreements that are signed in good faith by the customer and the developer under UAE laws."


^^^^^
This may be a different kettle of fish when properties have been delivered...I would say this ruling isn't a precedent for developers who have NOT delivered!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Dubai shares slump to 4-month low on Aldar
By Reuters

* Sunday, 16 January 2011 11:26 AM



source: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-shares-slump-4-month-low-on-aldar-373796.html


----------



## unknownpleasures

The mighty island challenge

By Benjamin Roberts

* Monday, 17 January 2011 12:00 AM



> Deep in the south of Bahrain lies an ongoing struggle to create another world. The Durrat Al Bahrain project is one of the most remarkable in the Middle East, perhaps the most complex of the offshore reclamation developments that have transformed the shoreline of the Arabian Gulf.
> 
> But a financial crisis that spread to the Gulf in the last two years and declining sales has dramatically slowed the development, creating not only an uneven development but a big decision for the developers as to where to progress from here.



http://www.arabianbusiness.com/the-mighty-island-challenge-373498.html


----------



## dubaifooled

*Tired of waiting*

Hi guys,

Any of you have tried to enforce the contract and get the invested money back?

If so, I would appreciate any pointers and lawyer details.

Thanks in advance


----------



## unknownpleasures

It is my understanding that any amendments or additions to laws should be listed on the RERA website (for what it's worth) so that it provides the details clearly to everyone...in this case there is no amendment or addition indicated on their website...the only information listed on RERA website as law is this below Law 13 of 2008...the law should always prevail! The only information about this is indicated on the RERA website Article (12) and here is the source it came from below! 

source: http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/home/...tion.do?lang=0

http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/fg?f=...dHrcHCDKr6bbHi


----------



## glover

all the real estate laws are listed on RERA's Arabic website, including Resolution No. 6 of 2010.

http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/home/laws_regulation.do?lang=1


----------



## unknownpleasures

If it's in Arabic it should be in English and vice versa (the website has both translations)...

Why is there a difference and the laws are not translated the same in English as they appear in Arabic - should be the same on both! Makes no possible sense!




> Circular with regards to Service Charge for Jointly Owned Property
> Circular No. (1/ 2010)
> Direction Concerning Preparation of Survey Plans
> Survey Directions
> Direction for Jointly Owned Property Declarations 2010
> 2010
> Direction for General Regulation 2010
> 2010
> Direction for Association Constitution 2010
> 2010
> Law No (9) of 2009 Amending Certain Provisions of Law No (13) of 2008 Regulating the Interim Real Estate Register in the Emirate of Dubai
> 
> 
> Law No (9) of 2009
> 
> Regarding Rentals in the Emirate of Dubai
> 
> Decree No. (1) of 2009
> 
> Amending some provisions of Law No. 26 of 2007 Regulating Relationship Between Landlords & Tenants in the Emirate of Dubai
> 
> 
> Law No. (33) of 2008
> 
> Amiri Decree No. (28) of 2008 Cancelling Amiri Decree No. (30) of 2007 Appointing a Special Judicial Committee on Property Dispute Resolution for the Emirate of Dubai
> 
> 
> Decree No. (28) of 2008
> 
> Concerning Mortgages in the Emirate of Dubai
> 
> Law No. (14) of 2008
> 
> Regulating the Interim Real Estate Register in the Emirate of Dubai
> 
> Law No. (13) of 2008
> 
> Appointing a Special Judicial Committee on Tenancy Dispute Resolution for the Emirate of Dubais
> 
> Decree No. (30) of 2007
> 
> Regarding Rentals in the Emirate of Dubai
> 
> Decree No. (27) of 2007
> 
> Concerning Ownership of Jointly Owned Properties in the Emirate of Dubai
> 
> Law No. (27) of 2007
> 
> Concerning regulating the relation Between Tenants and landlords of property in Dubai Emirate
> 
> 
> Law No. (26) of 2007
> 
> Establishing the Real Estate Regulatory Agency
> 
> Law No. (16) of 2007
> 
> Concerning Guarantee Accounts of Real Estate Developments in the Emirate of Dubai
> 
> 
> Law No. (8) of 2007
> 
> Regarding the Regulation of Real Estate Brokers’ Register in the Emirate of Dubai
> 
> 
> Law No. (85) of 2006
> 
> Amending Some provisions of the Land Registration Fees Law
> 
> Law No. (21) Year 2006
> 
> Concerning Land Registration in the Emirate of Dubai1
> 
> Law No. (7)/2006
> 
> Concerning the determination of areas where non-locals can acquire properties in the Emirate of Dubai
> 
> 
> Regulation No. (3) of 2006
> Regulating the Lease of Property In the Emirate of Dubai
> Law No. (2) of 2003
> Regarding Land Registration Fees
> Law No. (7) of 1997


^^^^


vaksa said:


> No, I got it by email.


----------



## dubaiprojects

*UAE in pictures*

http://theriseofanation.com/moreimages.aspx


----------



## dubaifooled

pisandre said:


> you should first discuss a compromise with Rufi. They may reduce the price of the property. Did you meet them already?


Actually I did.
I met with them and, as some of you may know, they're actually offering clients from other projects to move "up" to Twin Towers (as if it would really be ready this year)
When I asked for the money back, regardless of time spent and money thrown away into the bank, their answer was: "find a lawyer and let's see if it takes the court less than a couple of years to make us give it up" 
-they ain't got a dime in cash-

So, again, anyone here knows a decent law firm or have tried to claim the investment back?


----------



## pisandre

Not a surprise... I suggest you post in the following thread. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764



dubaifooled said:


> Actually I did.
> I met with them and, as some of you may know, they're actually offering clients from other projects to move "up" to Twin Towers (as if it would really be ready this year)
> When I asked for the money back, regardless of time spent and money thrown away into the bank, their answer was: "find a lawyer and let's see if it takes the court less than a couple of years to make us give it up"
> -they ain't got a dime in cash-
> 
> So, again, anyone here knows a decent law firm or have tried to claim the investment back?


----------



## unknownpleasures

*The World at risk of erosion amid stalled construction*

* Article
* Photos
*
*

By Shane McGinley

* Thursday, 20 January 2011 4:44 PM



> A key developer on Nakheel’s ‘The World’ project has said the manmade islands are at risk of erosion if construction does not begin


Source:http://www.arabianbusiness.com/the-world-at-risk-of-erosion-amid-stalled-construction-375140.html


----------



## indiinvest

A group of more than 50 investors have taken the crusade to get the project of Dubai 2 completed. If anyone is interested to join the group , may please mail me at [email protected].


----------



## bizzybonita

*Low, medium quality housing units record price declines*

The selling prices of medium and low-quality residential units in Dubai will decline further during the first quarter this year, owing to surge in demand for high-end properties, said a report by Landmark Advisory, leading real estate consultancy in Dubai.

The January Dubai sales guide by Landmark Advisory states that it has identified a considerable price bifurcation on the basis of quality, particularly in the apartment segment.

Although the present trend seems to boost Dubai real estate market, the relative stability is seen only for chosen assets, the report pointed out. 

As per the report, the sale-change patterns during the fourth quarter of 2010 were different when it came to apartments and villas. 

The selling prices of villas depended on location, with significant declines being noticed in Central Dubai, where the prices for The Springs and The Meadows fell by more than 12 percent, said Jesse Downs, Director-Research and Advisory Services, Landmark Advisory.

However, in other areas of Dubai, such as units in Victory Heights, the four and five bedroom units actually increased in price owing to less supply in the market, she said.

Majority of the price declines occurred in Q3, while Q4 of 2010 was considerably stable, Downs said.

Generally, there is oversupply in the Dubai Market, and with significant new stock likely to enter the market shortly, there will be an adverse effect on selling prices, Downs pointed out.

Taking into account the findings since August 2010, the poor quality units were the worst performing assets in the emirate. Although the better quality units too, have been affected by price declines, it is not to the same extent. For instance, the lower quality units in the Dubai Marina during Q4 2010 dropped by nearly 10percent while higher quality units in the same area saw little or no decline, Downs explains. 

The report said that apartment prices dropped more consistently across Dubai, with quality being the defining factor. Moreover, there are more apartments than villas that are likely to hit the market in the short-term, which would further add to current oversupply and continuing to bring prices down, Downs said. 

As for commercial sector, the report said that the demand was more for renting rather than for sales. 

According to Landmark report, significant price declines were noticed in Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT), owing to new supplies there. While standard quality office space fell up to 30 percent in some cases, good quality spaces saw a decline of 15 percent, the report said.

The prices are likely to continue to fall for a while, but, the comparative shallow declines seen in the last quarter, actually indicate signs of boost for the real estate market in Dubai, Downs concluded.


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

unknownpleasures said:


> If it's in Arabic it should be in English and vice versa (the website has both translations)...
> 
> Why is there a difference and the laws are not translated the same in English as they appear in Arabic - should be the same on both! Makes no possible sense!
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^


Thanks helping to dig up info the "area variation excess charge" issue and Law 13. 

So RERA's arabic website includes a resolution 6, 2010 which allows a developer to charge extra for area variation if included in the SPA while that resolution has not been included on RERA's english website ?? Just fantastic...


----------



## unknownpleasures

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> Thanks helping to dig up info the "area variation excess charge" issue and Law 13.
> 
> So RERA's arabic website includes a resolution 6, 2010 which allows a developer to charge extra for area variation if included in the SPA while that resolution has not been included on RERA's english website ?? Just fantastic...


^^^^

Yep really amazing isn't it! I was absolutely taken aback when seeing the translated arabic section! Absolutely astonishing to say the least!

Thanks Dubai Investor...hope it kind of helps not that we really know what translation to take as gospel!


----------



## bister

*ACI Crushed in Court - but does it help?*



rallyman said:


> at the moment they are making up the rules as they go, there are so many cases the system can not cope . we have been at appeal nearly 6 months now.


Another verdict yesterday ordered ACI to refund in FULL with interest on a project elsewhere in Dubai. The ruling was crushing, however they will probably appeal and then what......?

The big question? Is the money there? Well best response is another question: Why does ACI appeal and pay expensive lawyers if the money is gone.....


----------



## wittyman

*THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE!!*

This is very important issue as resolution 6 of 2010 as stated in this forum amends / brings explanation to Article 12 of Law 13 of 2008.

I have a clause in my purchase agreement which says I have to pay if the unit comes out to be larger than stated in the contract..

The developer made a claim for extra payment (around 40K AED) on grounds that the unit is larger than stated in the contract.. They did not substantiate their claim with any 3rd party attested area mesurement report etc.. This makes me think that the claim is bogus and made solely to avoid paying to the land department the title deed fee they collected from me and most likely used for other purpose.. (It makes a substantial sum considering about 250 units in the building)..

I consulted to a lawyer I know who has worked for 7 years as an attorney in a prominent law firm in Dubai and who is now the managing director of a mid-sized foreign developer in Dubai.. I mean he is the guy who should know the best.. He said the develoıper has no right and the law supercedes the contract.. 

I have therefore refused to pay on grounds of Law no 13 banning such practice. Whereas the developer claims the law nas no precedence..

But this resolution 6 of 2010 (is indeed is as stated in this forum) may force me to change my stance and accept to pay provided that the developer can come up with convincing substantiation..

But I need to know what I will face if I refuse or can not pay the extra amount claimed.. Apparently I will not be able to get the title deed as the developer will not give No Objection Certificate.. *BUT will I ever risk losng the ownership of my apartment?* 

I will appreciate the comments and / or experience of people who have been in a similar position or have witnessed such, as well as people who are in the know like lawyers etc..

Thanks in advance..




DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> Thanks helping to dig up info the "area variation excess charge" issue and Law 13.
> 
> So RERA's arabic website includes a resolution 6, 2010 which allows a developer to charge extra for area variation if included in the SPA while that resolution has not been included on RERA's english website ?? Just fantastic...


----------



## glover

^^^^This is what Article 13(2) of Resolution 6 says regarding this issue (in Arabic): "Any increase in the net area of the sold real estate unit shall not be taken into consideration. A developer may not claim for the value of such increase unless otherwise agreed upon."

if the developer claims that the net area is bigger than what is stated in the SPA, ask them to get a letter from the land department showing the net area of your apartment. the net area of the apartment is what is stated in the title deed of the unit. don't pay anything that does not match the land department's records. the land department will stand with you on this point. the developer has to prove it to them first and the land department's records should be updated, if the developer is truthful, before you pay any money to cover the difference.


----------



## Fakhter

Did we agree on date, time and venue for second meeting?


----------



## bister

GTR11 said:


> money is not gone, money is their in personal accounts of ACI... you need to wake up and realize how the Middle East works.
> 
> 
> In Dubai everything is done under the table below the broken radar of so called Rera, should be called VULD ( Very Useless Land Department)


That may be the case, but if the money is stashed away safely out of investor reach, why then bother paying lawyers and paying court fees to fend off investor claims?

Sorry, but I dont see the world as black and white as you seem to do.


----------



## TerryPop

*The Property market and its Cycle*

There's an article in arabian business today- 

It basically says that we will see the market bottom out best case scenario end of this year and worst by the end of 2012.

I am guessing this is based on a few articles that came out last week that had a similar spread of when the market in Dubai would hit bottom.

I am not a betting man but I would agree with the 2011-2012 being the last year of declines- we are working on that assumption.

So...

While this is negative news there are some positives 

First of all we are 24 months away from the downwards part of the cycle at worst- 

That really means peak to trough we had a range of 4 years for the crash to fizzle out- not THAT bad

Furthermore the rate of decline is now marginal, the big hits have happened in asset values.

Finally as with all these predictions no-one ever gets it exactly right, so while it could be more protracted even by a few years (yikes) it could also be less so- meaning the buying opportunities are here now or will be with us in the next few months.

Don't forget Dubai has a few secret weapons at its disposal that most other markets have already used to stave off their declines in property value.

The most important one of these is a dramatic reduction in interest rates.

Here's to positive spin :cheers:


----------



## Morrismarina

Why can't a development be built to the exact dimensions stated in the SPA ?? Even the Victorians could have done this. Unless it's all a scam ?? :dunno:


----------



## liwanowner

The second meeting is today, same venue (CBTL on third floor of Bur Juman), same time (6:00pm).


----------



## Fakhter

Thanks for the info. I will be there.

Fahim


----------



## 234sale

Has anyone been through completion and handover recently, pm me please


----------



## unknownpleasures

Isn't Dubai all tax free? 

How can a landlord be charged for business tax when they should not be required to be registered as a business as all they would have is perhaps only one property??? - none of this makes any sense! 

Does the tenant pay any bond? This is proof of monies obtained from the tenant and this is the registration that RERA should only be accepting...... The landlord/agent cannot keep the bond money.....well that's how it happens in other civilised parts of the world..the lease should be proof enough for the tenant to obtain electricity in their own name! 

The bond money paid by the tenant is deposited by the landlord/agent with the appropriate govt body in this case it would be RERA. It is kept until the tenant decides to leave..if the property has been maintained by the tenant to a standard acceptable or near to standard that the property was let, the tenant receives the full bond on departing the premises...if not, the bond monies are deducted for any damage caused by the tenant, the tenant receives either part or none (depends on the damage as the bond is generally 4 weeks rent), this is paid to the landlord by the govt body on the tenants departure once proof has been provided by the landlord or their agent by filling out a simple form! 

Real estate agencies are businesses...they have to be registered as a business, they have employees, manage many portfolios? how is it that a landlord who only has his/her portfolio be required to be registered as a business? ..how is being a landlord in any way should be classified as some sort of business when they only have their own properties to rent out?

No where in the world does this happen to my knowledge but then again this is Dubai!


----------



## True Blue

^^It happens in Scotland, all landlords need to be registered with the local authorities and must have their properties maintained and inspected regularly. 

Anyone letting short term holiday lets in Dubai are supposed to be registered and pay the hotel taxes to the authorities. Not many do however but as soon as they have a serious accident they will be in big trouble.


----------



## gerald.d

UK economy contracted 0.5% in the last quarter.

Sterling down 2 cents against the dollar since the news came out...


----------



## True Blue

Regarding the long term leasing Ejari arrangement, it should be the agents responsibility to register it. They have to be rera registered to operate in the first place but they won't do it as part of the normal service. Perhaps the tenants should insist that it is done as it is they who pay the agents fees.


----------



## noir-dresses

Am I missing some thing here ? Do landlord's need to make a company to rent out their unit's now ?

I havn't been keeping track of this thread for the last couple of day's.


----------



## True Blue

^^Stop being lazy, read post #25721 

50,000dirham fine if you do not comply!


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> ^^Stop being lazy, read post #25721
> 
> 50,000dirham fine if you do not comply!


Got it, thank's.


----------



## unknownpleasures

^^^^ see post 25726


> The article was published in Oct 2010,, pray they forget about it


What is RERA going to do about it? According to the above post it's not official ...RERA are toothless remember... They can't keep the developers in line so what makes them go tough here?


----------



## True Blue

As I say elsewhere, it is mainly if there is an incident that you will have a problem I expect. Just remember that there are plenty of nasty tenants out there who could use this as a weapon against you.

I suggest therefore it is better to comply than become an example.


----------



## unknownpleasures

^^^^

I don't know what this is about...if you have an agent the agent is responsible is that it and is it the agent who registers the landlord if you have one...sorry I'm not so clever like you...but are you registered by your agent or do you let out your properties yourself? Regardless of who does it - landlords required to be registered! 

see post 25726 - as I mentioned previously...the article was out in October it says,,,,is this law officially on RERA'S website, if so can you provide the link - but which version is accurate the English or Arabic?


----------



## True Blue

It is official and is on Rera's web site.

I have used agents to let my properties but none have registered any of the tenancies with Rera. When I asked them about it last year in April they said it was not mandatory. Rera position at that time was that you will not be able to use the dispute resolution service if you have not registered on the Ejari system.

I began to look at registering my tenancies as I had just managed to evict a "tenant from hell" and wanted the protection of the system in case I found myself in that same position again. Now that Rera are imposing fines of up to 50k for non registration, tenants will use that as a weapon against landlords if they know the tenancy has not been registered.


----------



## unknownpleasures

If it's not mandatory what is the 50,000 fine for? 

Sorry I didn't see the law on the RERA website on the laws and regulations link here 
http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/home/laws_regulation.do?lang=0

I don't really think from the way RERA has been operating that the resolution service would make any difference do you?! 

If the agents haven't registered your properties I would say you have no problem! But then you say it was in April - this article was out in October so is it mandatory now?

Are you saying you had to evict your tenant from hell because you were not registered or did your agent do all this for you - which is what they should be doing if they are managing the property for you or are things different in Dubai?

I'm trying to get my head around all of this because all doesn't seem to be so easy in Dubai...I can't really see the issue anywhere else in the world...I know people who rent properties (not in Scotland but they do pay tax there and always have) and do not have the problems that confront people here! If they want people to buy and rent out then why make things so difficult!


----------



## Porcello

True Blue said:


> It is official and is on Rera's web site.


I can't find it. Could you please post the link?
Thanks.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> Try getting a 2 bed in a good quality tower in the Chic end of the marina for 90k.......almost impossible without compromising somewhere. Average for Marina Promenade is 125k.
> 
> If we are talking the tallest block then I agree to a certain extent.


I notice that Ocean heights units are starting to be advertised on the rental market in the 120k - 130k range for 2 beds.

Jewels 2 beds in the 130k range

Marina Heights 2 bed around 100k and 120k. 

Dorra Bay 105k to 120k

Marina phase 1 emaar towers 100k - 140k

Time place from 80k (partial view)

Marina crown 75k (this tower seems to be suffering with very low rents)

JBR 2 beds (from 75k!)

Marina park 65k

Sulafa tower 65k

Marina Diamond 2 65k


----------



## True Blue

Porcello said:


> I can't find it. Could you please post the link?
> Thanks.


http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/rentals/rental_process.do?lang=0



> The tenancy must be governed by a written tenancy contract agreement with all the relevant information *and must be registered in RERA by Law *otherwise, neither party may assert a claim if a dispute should arise.


I can't find anything that states the penalty mentioned in the news bulletin. But it clearly states that it is a legal requirement to register the tenancy.


----------



## 234sale

It's not law,, it's an idea.

best forgotten


----------



## sadinvestor

*Over payment for Lakeside IMPZ*

I made an overpayment for this project of AED14k and for the last two year I have been asking DAMAC for money back and nothing recieved from Damac. They keep emailing to say that this will go toward my next installment in few weeks. 

Anyone cancelled DAMAC lakeside contract as by law you are allowed to do so and willl get 25% of total cost of the project if construction started but under 40% completoin or osmething like that?

Can anyone advise me further. Also is the completion in mid 2013?


----------



## unknownpleasures

That's right all tenancies must have a written tenancy agreement which is the normal practice that should occur anywhere in the world if you are going to let it out...the article is rubbish as usual! If you don't have one you are letting yourself into trouble...both sides not just the landlord here!

If you have a tenancy agreement then both parties have a right to a dispute resolution process otherwise NEITHER PARTY CAN DO IT! Again the article is rubbish and is putting rubbish ideas into people's heads about fines and what not!

If anyone doesn't have a WRITTEN TENANCY AGREEMENT they are looking for trouble and that's it! That part is legal to protect both parties! It's like having a contract! Although the contracts here between developers and buyers is a totally different story!

In other parts of the world if you don't have one you will never ever be able to get tenants out...that is what is called squatters rights and you have no rights to any resolution process! So you would be very stupid not to have one here unless people here are avoiding to pay the "business tax"!

Finally it's very clear!


----------



## Porcello

234sale said:


> It's not law,, it's an idea.
> 
> best forgotten


True... the usual newspaper rubbish.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Dubai Marina still city’s top real estate hotspot
By Joanne Bladd

* Tuesday, 25 January 2011 4:13 PM





> Dubai Marina accounted for more than 18 percent of searches among would-be buyers in the fourth quarter
> 
> *Dubai Marina accounted for more than 18 percent of searches among would-be buyers in the fourth quarter*
> 
> *Dubai Marina has retained its title as the city’s most popular property hotspot for those looking to rent or buy, new data from real estate website propertyfinder.ae has found.*
> 
> *The waterside project accounted for more than 18 percent of searches among would-be buyers in the fourth quarter, the Dubai-based website said, and 18.02 percent of rental hunts.*
> 
> Second in the rankings was the luxury Palm Jumeirah project, attracting 12 percent of buyers. For those looking to rent, Jumeirah Lake Towers was the second most popular spot with 8.58 percent of searches, the website said.
> 
> Least popular among potential buyers was Jumeirah, with less than two percent of enquiries, with The Lakes and Green Community notching up a fraction more hits.
> 
> *For renters, Dubai Silicon Oasis, International City and Dubai Land attracted the least attention, with each notching up less than 2.5 percent of online enquiries.*
> 
> The findings were based on around 600,000 visits to the site, carried out in the three months to December 31, 2010.
> 
> Among buyers, the single most popular price band was up to AED2.5m, however, the gross majority of searches targeted properties at AED1m or under.
> 
> “We may begin to see better investment strategies rather than simply opting for the lowest price,” the report said. “Stern price caps are still the norm for investors in Q4.”
> 
> Renters had tighter purse strings, the data showed, with the top five price searches all aimed at property costing AED100,000 or less per year.
> *
> “Anything over AED150,000 has diminished immensely in Q4 searches,” the report said. “More and more people are looking under AED50,000.*
> 
> *“Patterns clearly indicate 2011 searches will continue to drop in price range values.”*
> 
> *Enquiries for properties tagged at more than AED200,000 a year were almost nonexistent.
> *
> More than a third of buyers were scouting for an apartment, while 25 percent viewed villas.
> 
> *“Two-bedroom [properties] lead clearly in most scales,” the website said, “while studios are almost non-existent in searches.”*
> *
> Land searches dropped by half compared to the previous quarter.*
> 
> Renters also favoured apartments, with 39.13 percent of searches targeting flats.
> *
> ‘Two and three-bedroom units top the search exclusively now,” the report showed. “Studios are barely looked at, at best.”*




http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-marina-still-city-s-top-real-estate-hotspot-376200.html

^^^^^
Interesting.....


----------



## Pleth

Richard Head said:


> You can make your own, use the following text:
> 
> Dear Developer,
> 
> Due to the ongoing delays in delivery of ___________ project, I am in an untenable financial situation and am regrettably forced to .......................................
> 
> Thank you, it has been a pleasure doing business with you.
> 
> Regards etc..........


:lol::lol: I just got cought with my morning coffee all over the place - laughing....
Thanks.


----------



## unknownpleasures

^^^^^^^^^
Awwwwwwww you missed out all the funny bits!


----------



## whistler77

hi there, 

aci told in germany that the complete towers were sold on 11th of dezember 2007. is there anyone who had bought after this ? please give me a pm...


----------



## noir-dresses

If some one has a link to the blue lease agreement/contract could they please send it to me.

I know it was posted a few times, but I can't find it.


----------



## laidback74

Hi All,

Can anyone help me out. I'm looking to invest some money into the dubai property market. I'd like to know if anyone can suggest the best types of apartments (i.e. studio, 1 bed, etc.) and locations one can invest in to get the best returns? I'm especially interested in the property's ability to generate short-term rentals. I've been told that studios or 1-beds are the best for short term rentals, with the most popular areas being discovery gardens or dubai marina. Not sure if this is indeed the true picture, so I was hoping for some advice. 

Appreciate any feedback you can give me to help in my research


----------



## noir-dresses

laidback74 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Can anyone help me out. I'm looking to invest some money into the dubai property market. I'd like to know if anyone can suggest the best types of apartments (i.e. studio, 1 bed, etc.) and locations one can invest in to get the best returns? I'm especially interested in the property's ability to generate short-term rentals. I've been told that studios or 1-beds are the best for short term rentals, with the most popular areas being discovery gardens or dubai marina. Not sure if this is indeed the true picture, so I was hoping for some advice.
> 
> Appreciate any feedback you can give me to help in my research


I would avoid discovery gardens, marina is good.


----------



## redjay22

From my experience and from these boards it is impossible to get developers in Dubai to do the right thing. The Government and authorities are simply not interested. In any western country with a proper legal system you would have clear recourse against companies like Damac for a reasonable cost. But in Dubai you have to stump up thousands just to get the case to court. 

I have 2 apartments in Lago Vista that are 3-4 years late i reckon and there was nothing i could reasonably do to get recourse.

I am sorry if this is not what you want to hear but it is what it is.


----------



## speculator

^^^^
For certain Marina. Offers everything.


----------



## carpetking

Marina is one of the best locations in Dubai !


----------



## True Blue

Laidback, Would be a good idea to try and read back at least 1 months worth of this thread. Plenty of news reports and studies giving a current state of the market position.

Funny thing is someone contacted me just the other day asking the same thing as he and his brother in law are looking to buy apartments in Dubai. All us old timers in the property market may have jaded opinions of the property market in Dubai but seems the new money doesn't care about the past just the shear selection of property that is available and what the Emirate has to offer over Mediteranean options. Like year round rental returns.


----------



## unknownpleasures

noir-dresses said:


> If some one has a link to the blue lease agreement/contract could they please send it to me.
> 
> I know it was posted a few times, but I can't find it.


^^^^
Ahhh good idea...can a copy of it be provided here thanks for everyone...would love to see it~


----------



## unknownpleasures

laidback74...just go to post #25747 on this page...it will tell you a bit about the joint!...it's up to date I guess but then again do you really want to trust the media/agents!

Many purchased through the hype of the media and a lot are now suffering particularly in Dubai Sports City....that's where I know the problem exists as I know many people purchased and paid up and their contracts had a completion date of June 2008,, (well before the GFC) and is now gone beyond 2 years in many cases and still no sign when their project will be completed....to date the place resembles a construction site!! This was all portrayed as the sporting arena - one of it's kind...due diligence was completed...oh the developers are registered with RERA, problem is launching other projects was the game instead of at least completing just one! Yeah only a cricket stadium exists after so many years and a golf course! Manchester United disappeared! They obviously got sick of all the promises! 

Oh there might be those who bought well before 2007 around certain pockets...they may be the lucky ones...but there are many many unlucky ones! Some in Business Bay have lost out as well...floors were purchased and now all you see it is a lawyers market!

Marina according to reports seems to be the one!

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai...ot-376200.html


----------



## 234sale

noir-dresses said:


> If some one has a link to the blue lease agreement/contract could they please send it to me.
> 
> I know it was posted a few times, but I can't find it.


http://www.skyscraperlist.com/admindocs/TenancyAgreement.pdf

I host one on my site, though I have come up with an amendment I suggest you also sign.

Though it is so in favour of the landlord, suprised if any tenant agrees

http://www.skyscraperlist.com/admindocs/Rental Contract Amendment.docx


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Could they be planning to use the profits from the Torch final payments due soon to help pay for this in the same way Cayan are doing with Infinity and Silverene? I expect this could be full steam ahead soon.


----------



## rallyman

i replied on the bb site too , but i bought in march 2008 ... they said it was on the secondary market but im sure they lied !!.... just wanted the extra premium price i paid.


----------



## True Blue

Only difference is that Cayan final payment is 30% whereas Select is 10%. 

Sorry, there is another difference. Cayan don't support a long term payment plan for investors so all of the final payments will be due whereas only a percentage of the Torch final 10%'s will be due. Could amount to a significant difference. In fact the final amount due from SPP payments might only be enough to cover the 5% retention/defect bond.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Can someone let me know what deductions on rental income I can expect if I rent out an apartment in Dubai with an agent.

Am I right in thinking that most agents charge 5%?

What about municipality tax. I read that another 5% is charged for that on the monthly DEWA (Dubai Electricity and Water Authority) invoice. Is this payable by the landlord or tenant?


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> Can someone let me know what deductions on rental income I can expect if I rent out an apartment in Dubai with an agent.
> 
> Am I right in thinking that most agents charge 5%?
> 
> What about municipality tax. I read that another 5% is charged for that on the monthly DEWA (Dubai Electricity and Water Authority) invoice. Is this payable by the landlord or tenant?


Tenant will pay the comission (5 %) for the agent, tenant will open a DEWA account and pays the municipality tax (Housing Fee).

So if your rent is 100K , you will get 100K ,no deductions 

You need to pay just the yearly service charge (maintenance fee) to the developer .


----------



## gerald.d

Imre said:


> You need to pay just the yearly service charge (maintenance fee) to the developer .


Which will probably be about 110K


----------



## liwanowner

Hi Adam, a lot of the discussion has been taken up on the mailing list that has been created for this purpose. I would recommend you to the following:

1 - Go to http://groups.google.com/group/liwanowners
2 - Click on "Sign in and apply for membership".
3 - Provide the details required (3 simple things).

You will then be added to this group and we can discuss all of our concerns there. The group is fairly active and we have a few things planned for the coming week. 

Also, to anyone else reading this, meetings have been taking place each week at CBTL at Bur Juman at 6pm every Saturday. There is a very important one taking place this coming Saturday as well and I encourage everyone to attend.


----------



## Pleth

TerryPop said:


> Nakheel has cancelled plans to build the Trump International Hotel & Tower on the trunk of the Palm Jumeirah in Dubai...


 .
The Tiger Wood city is now also officially cancelled.


----------



## agod

AppleMac said:


> The investment in American Life in Seattle is straightforward and above board. I seriously investigated all the EB5 schemes as it was a toss-up between going to the US or coming to the ME. The Seattle scheme was the only one I felt totally happy about and no investor has had a problem - in fact the returns on the Marriott Hotel project have been pretty good.
> 
> And they do have some US citizens investing in the project.



I am glad it is succesfull, like you I chose the UAE, the question is where we wise or foolish


----------



## shagdash

^^
foolish!


----------



## AppleMac

shagdash said:


> ^^
> foolish!


No actually - making far more money here than I would have in the US.

For myself it would have been a mistake financially to choose the US over the UAE. But everyones personal situation is different.


----------



## Richard Head

Pleth said:


> .
> The Tiger Wood city is now also officially cancelled.


Tiger was paid to back out of the deal several months ago. But haven't seen this officially yet. What's your source?


----------



## unknownpleasures

Here's one!

*Dubai Holding unit suspends Tiger Woods golf resort*


Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:20am EST

* Dubai Properties cites poor market condition for luxury

* Company says to keep commercial agreement with Tiger Woods




> DUBAI, Jan 31 (Reuters) - Dubai Properties, part of a conglomerate owned by the ruler of Dubai, has suspended its Tiger Woods residential and golf course project, citing poor market conditions for luxury developments.
> 
> The developer, a unit of Dubahi Holding, had planned the resort with Woods, a former world number one, who was to have designed the golf course.
> 
> "Tiger Woods Dubai can confirm it has suspended the project," Dubai Properties said in a statement on Monday.
> 
> "This decision was based on current market conditions that do not support high-end luxury real estate. These conditions will continue to be monitored and a decision will be made in the future as to when to restart the project." The golf resort was slated to have 292 residential plots for palaces, mansions, luxury villas and golf villas, according to the development's website. It also includes an 18 hole golf course.
> 
> Dubai Properties said it would maintain the commercial agreement with Tiger Woods and his organisation. The once-booming property market in Dubai was hit hard by the economic crises, causing a collapse of the real estate market in the emirate. (Reporting by Praveen Menon; Editing by Amran Abocar)


source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/31/dubai-tigerwoods-idUKLDE70U1HQ20110131


----------



## Pleth

Richard Head said:


> Tiger was paid to back out of the deal several months ago. But haven't seen this officially yet. What's your source?


I can highly recommend this website for everyone living in Dubai http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...id=510731&id=144148328952038#!/365thingsdubai
Look under 31.01.2011 There are 2 photos as well :lol:


----------



## gerald.d

Pleth said:


> I can highly recommend this website for everyone living in Dubai http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...id=510731&id=144148328952038#!/365thingsdubai
> Look under 31.01.2011 There are 2 photos as well :lol:


Cool. I always enjoy sending DMCA takedown notices to Facebook.


----------



## Bad

why no one telling the new news ?? red group will pay or will lose ? ... thats what i know and that what i enjoy ... all of you that did not paid are going to pay soon ,, as i know and you know


----------



## TerryPop

gerald.d said:


> Cool. I always enjoy sending DMCA takedown notices to Facebook.


so quiet here, everybody waiting for nakheel to announce it has 95% of creditors on board? 

any day now according to Lootah- chop fucking chop.:banana:


----------



## TerryPop

*Ejari*

Has anyone used a service that will register your tenancy contracts with Ejari?

Is there a service out there and any ideas of costs per tenancy agreement.

Am beginning to think its time to get them registered


----------



## maltster

Bad said:


> why no one telling the new news ?? red group will pay or will lose ? ... thats what i know and that what i enjoy ... all of you that did not paid are going to pay soon ,, as i know and you know


^^Maybe because nobody knows about this piece of news because they are not employed by Wind and therefore do not have the 'insider' knowledge that you enjoy. 

In anycase, is this vital to the construction of the towers? Why not tell us when construction is going to re-commence and the towers be completed?


----------



## 234sale

It's 160 AED


----------



## True Blue

^^Problem is you need to do the course yourself to get the username and password and become a Rera approved landlord. Better to get the agent to register it.


----------



## dubaiprojects

Any one familiar with the market here?

What is your opinion about this offer:

http://www.experience-investments.co.uk/hotel.html

What criteria would you set to go or not to go for this type of investment?


cheers


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> ^^Problem is you need to do the course yourself to get the username and password and become a Rera approved landlord. Better to get the agent to register it.


Myself and a few owners have applied to do it, I'll let you know how it goes.

I think the agencies who will register contracts for you are taking a fee and claiming your tenants as theirs-

i.e. adding a commission to a contract with a tenant they didn't find.


----------



## TerryPop

dubaiprojects said:


> Any one familiar with the market here?
> 
> What is your opinion about this offer:
> 
> http://www.experience-investments.co.uk/hotel.html
> 
> What criteria would you set to go or not to go for this type of investment?
> 
> 
> cheers


This is worth reading if you are considering this type of investment- Should you invest in a hotel room?

Edits:

I say don't do it.

Research the net well, there is enough negative sentiment on this type of investment to put you off.

Guestinvest was into the "hotel rooms for sale" maket, and its now in administration according to the FT- research how and why too.


----------



## hijer

*Legal Actions ... are you guys getting anywhere?*

Dear All,
I have a unit in SUR; also delayed from Sep 2009, to Jun 2011.
i went through similar experience as you had.. no refund, no meaningful compensation, etc. :bash:
I approached DIB and currently setting up a legal case through their lawyers..

Ishraqah claimed, as yo all know, the delay was due to “delay in handover of the plots by Master Developer, requirements of green building regulation by JAFZA, site conditions and delay of infrastructure works.” which constitute a "force majeure" that allows them to extend the completion day... of course, they didn't provide any proof of what they claimed. 

The "force Majeure" that Ishraqah claimed is bougus. (at least what I and DIB believe)..
so it will come down to two things:
1- whether Ishraqah can prove what they claim.
2- if they did, then whether that constitue a force majeure

just interested to see if anyone else has gone through that route and what's the latest of your invetigation?


----------



## NeilP

Is 70,000 for 2 bed with Marina View in Marina Diamond 4 about right today? Should we accept with upfront payment?


----------



## agod

dubaiprojects said:


> Any one familiar with the market here?
> 
> What is your opinion about this offer:
> 
> http://www.experience-investments.co.uk/hotel.html
> 
> What criteria would you set to go or not to go for this type of investment?
> 
> 
> cheers



Bargepole, and dont touch it come to mind, if its that good, they would be keeping it for themselves.

al.


----------



## Imre

NeilP said:


> Is 70,000 for 2 bed with Marina View in Marina Diamond 4 about right today? Should we accept with upfront payment?


Price is ok, I would accept immediately .


----------



## hijer

thanks for the reply.
there is a clause in the contract clearly states that by all means and under any conditions if the dealy is past 2 years from the original date, then the buyer has a right to cancel and get a full refund.

I am hoping that they won't deliver before Sep 2011... which looks very hard to achieve considering the infrasturcture/site condition/etc.


----------



## NeilP

^^^^

Thanks Imre. Advice taken, waiting to here if deal has been done.


----------



## Mistermark

NeilP said:


> Is 70,000 for 2 bed with Marina View in Marina Diamond 4 about right today? Should we accept with upfront payment?


I'd say that's generous.


----------



## 234sale

NeilP said:


> Is 70,000 for 2 bed with Marina View in Marina Diamond 4 about right today? Should we accept with upfront payment?


It's excellent,, if your the landlord,,

2 Beds in Al sahab @1450 sqft can be found for 90K


----------



## NeilP

^^^^^^
Good advice from all. Thanks.

Deal done at 72,000. All furniture and furnishings included. Mostly designer pieces with some IKEA.


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Developer sets precedent by selling units at construction cost*



> By Parag Deulgaonkar | Published Wednesday, February 09, 2011
> 
> In a move that could set precedent for completion of projects in Dubai, a private developer is selling the remaining units in his residential project in Business Bay at just the construction cost, Emirates 24|7 can reveal.
> 
> “The developer just wants to finish the project and hand it over so to keep his market reputation intact. We have been advised by him to find a bulk buyer, who will pay the remaining money so the contractor can finish the project,” said the real estate agent, authorised to sell the units.
> 
> Both of the parties asked not to be named since they were working on finalising the deal.
> 
> According to the agent, the building is almost 65 per cent complete, with the developer now requiring limited funds to complete the project.
> 
> “We are not going to pay the contractor directly. Sales agreements for the remaining units (21) will be registered with the Land Department… funds will be transferred to the escrow account from where it will be released to the contractor.”
> 
> A number of projects have missed their handover deadline, with numerous developers now using the “force majeure” clause to justify delays in their projects.
> 
> “We believe, this is the first time, a developer is selling units, without making any profits, only to complete the project. This allows him to collect the dues from his investors, and rent out the properties which he is likely to repossess from defaulters,” the agent added.
> 
> Law No (9) of 2009 Amending Certain Provisions of. Law No (13) of 2008 Regulating the Interim Real Estate Register in Dubai, says where a developer has completed at least 80 per cent of the construction, the purchaser who defaults on payments is liable to lose all the money paid in until that point.
> 
> Real Estate Regulatory Agency CEO said last year that 202 projects had been cancelled in Dubai and more projects were likely to be cancelled this year. Property prices in the emirate have plunged in the past three years, with experts now predicting a recovery next year.
> 
> The Dubai Land Department has also unveiled the 'Tayseer' initiate to help developers get bank finance to complete their projects. A total of 40 projects within the Dubai Marina, Business Bay, and Jumeirah Lake Towers have been short-listed in the first phase of the programme.


http://www.emirates247.com/property...nits-at-construction-cost-2011-02-09-1.353739


----------



## True Blue

NeilP said:


> ^^^^^^
> Good advice from all. Thanks.
> 
> Deal done at 72,000. All furniture and furnishings included. Mostly designer pieces with some IKEA.


Just heard a friend of a friend bagged a 3 bedder in Damac Waves for 75k. Makes your deal look good for youkay:


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> Just heard a friend of a friend bagged a 3 bedder in Damac Waves for 75k. Makes your deal look good for youkay:


On that basis what's your one bed (no view, dangerous access) in The Jewels worth 40k ?? :dunno:


----------



## Hanna

*Jewels*

at least 30k surely :lol:





:cheers:





Morrismarina said:


> On that basis what's your one bed (no view, dangerous access) in The Jewels worth 40k ?? :dunno:


----------



## True Blue

Morrismarina said:


> On that basis what's your one bed (no view, dangerous access) in The Jewels worth 40k ?? :dunno:


That would be 40k more than your BC unit then.:cheers:

Don't forget, the next rent cheque pays it off


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> Don't forget, the next rent cheque pays it off


Oh fxxk !!!! ..........OK you win :bow:

:lol:


----------



## True Blue

What no view!

Interesting that you say the apartment has no view but we had a couple of viewings over the last couple of days and the prospective tenants went straight to the window and said wow! To be successful in investment you have to seperate your own preferences from those of possible customers. There are many villas costing AED20million+ and the main view is of the pool from their livingroom. 

I think my sun soaked balcony is a perfect place to sit and have breakfast overlooking a classy pool


----------



## Pleth

*Saving Accounts*

For you who did not loose all your money on the Dubai property marked:

Read in Time Out Magazine:
Lloyds TSB Middle East offers accounts with competitive rates for savings– up to 2 per cent on its Bonus Saver account (www.lloydstsb.ae). Alternatively, RAK Bank has decent interest rates (comparatively speaking!), with the Fastsaver account paying 3 per cent (www.rakbank.ae).


----------



## vaksa

^^
I find HSBC eSaver very convenient. 3% p.a. paid monthly, no minimum balance, no fees, one free withdrawal per month.

http://www.hsbc.ae/1/2/personal/banking/current-accounts/esaver


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> I think my sun soaked balcony is a perfect place to sit and have breakfast overlooking a classy pool


Happy Birthday 



















:cheers:


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> ........ overlooking a classy pool


:hilarious








Nice view over a classy road as well. :lol:


----------



## True Blue

^^Grasping at straws now.hno:

Don't know when your beaten Morris. Good luck with BC, it's on the same road BTW!!!!except without the palm trees.


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> Happy Birthday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:


Thanks Imre for arranging the special surprise for my B'day. I was very touched:hug:


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> Don't know when your beaten Morris. Good luck with BC, it's on the same road BTW!!!!except without the palm trees.


Isn't the pool at BC going to be on the other side, overlooking the Marina?

Why did they choose to have the Jewels pool overlooking the road? - what is on the Marina side of the building?


----------



## Pleth

Morrismarina said:


> :hilarious
> 
> 
> Nice view over a classy road as well. :lol:


Having a bad hair day? :down:


----------



## True Blue

AppleMac said:


> Isn't the pool at BC going to be on the other side, overlooking the Marina?
> 
> Why did they choose to have the Jewels pool overlooking the road? - what is on the Marina side of the building?


Does anyone really know what the layout of Bay Central is going to be anymore? It has changed so much since the original renders and model used for sales purposes. Obviously the entire podium has had to be redesigned to re apportion the common space all in favour of Select's own building (East tower)

I could also appraise the design of BC in respect to "overlooking" a road or perhaps a massive machine room right infront of West tower. Better to wait until it's finished.


----------



## Morrismarina

Pleth said:


> Having a bad hair day? :down:


Not at all. Just pointing out to TB that his Jewels apartment is pretty shite really. 

How about a few Q & A's:

1) Other than the tiny pool can you see any water ? Answer: NO

2) Can you see any boats in the Marina ? Answer: NO

3) Can you see the Yacht Club ? Answer: NO

4) Can you see the sea ?? Answer: NO

The first three were all part of the view from my Bay Central West Tower unit. kay:


----------



## 234sale

^^ Same for the torch,,,

:dash:


----------



## TerryPop

Nakheel to reduce maintenance fee
Fee in Discovery Gardens slashed to Dh6 per sqft


WOW!!!


----------



## Porcello

TerryPop said:


> Nakheel to reduce maintenance fee
> Fee in Discovery Gardens slashed to Dh6 per sqft
> 
> 
> WOW!!!


They have always kept chiller charges separated from the basic maintenance fees, so I guess that the real charges will be around 12 or 13. let's wait and see...


----------



## Imre

TerryPop said:


> Nakheel to reduce maintenance fee
> Fee in Discovery Gardens slashed to Dh6 per sqft
> 
> 
> WOW!!!


Great if its true.

Prices for studios around 260-300K, 1 BR around 365-400K because of the high service charge , lets see the market soon..


----------



## TerryPop

Imre said:


> Great if its true.
> 
> Prices for studios around 260-300K, 1 BR around 365-400K because of the high service charge , lets see the market soon..


Its pretty big news regardless- yields go up and buyers start looking


----------



## True Blue

Morrismarina said:


> Not at all. Just pointing out to TB that his Jewels apartment is pretty shite really.
> 
> How about a few Q & A's:
> 
> 1) Other than the tiny pool can you see any water ? Answer: NO
> 
> 2) Can you see any boats in the Marina ? Answer: NO
> 
> 3) Can you see the Yacht Club ? Answer: NO
> 
> 4) Can you see the sea ?? Answer: NO
> 
> The first three were all part of the view from my Bay Central West Tower unit. kay:


What are the seven deadly sins?:lol:

Let's see if a BC west 1 bed with all those attributes every gets rented out for more than a Jewels one.


----------



## MarkWass

^^ Scott, seems like your calculated / 'luxury of hindsight' investment decisions are now being scrutinised?

Oh well, you're still better off than us off plan twits...


----------



## True Blue

Yeah, somebody needs to sit MM down and explain to him the difference between tangible assets and promises. Or just use the old adage "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". Mind you I have 2 in hand so that would be like 4 in the bush, except MM used to have 2 in the bush but now only has one........you still following me:laugh:


----------



## MarkWass

Yes, perhaps MM has been showing signs of ‘sour grapes’. But, as said before, it is all too easy to talk and reflect on investment decisions.. with the benefit of hindsight – a luxury that us mere mortals don’t have access to, regardless of the amount of due diligence one does prior to commitment. 

Scotty: leaving bravado aside, as a footsoldier on the scene: what advice can you give those of us caught in the off-plan / non-performance by developers (& RERA) trap now, given that the legal route is expensive, random, timely and somewhat comical, to say the least?


----------



## True Blue

I haven't had to use any of the rescue instruments in Dubai so not best experienced to advise. I have heard that many are taking the arbitration route after lodging their cases with Rera.

The court of arbitration is expanding to deal with the influx of cases and I have heard that many arbiters are British. The key to any legal dispute is notices, make sure the dispute is crystalised and clear by serving the notices on the delinquent party.


----------



## Pleth

Porcello said:


> They have always kept chiller charges separated from the basic maintenance fees, so I guess that the real charges will be around 12 or 13. let's wait and see...


What chiller charge? The one in each apartment or the one in the common area.


----------



## Pleth

Morrismarina said:


> Not at all. Just pointing out to TB that his Jewels apartment is pretty shite really.
> 
> How about a few Q & A's:
> 
> 1) Other than the tiny pool can you see any water ? Answer: NO
> 
> 2) Can you see any boats in the Marina ? Answer: NO
> 
> 3) Can you see the Yacht Club ? Answer: NO
> 
> 4) Can you see the sea ?? Answer: NO
> 
> The first three were all part of the view from my Bay Central West Tower unit. kay:


You are talking about Bay Central that is 3 - 4 years delayed??? :bash:


----------



## noir-dresses

I read this article this morning, its a good read, and in a way shows how the UAE is safe from what is happening in the rest of the middle east. Some one actually asked me a few days ago will the UAE see demonstrations ? and my answer was they live so good there, what would they demonstrate about ????

All in all, I'm confident the property market is safe in the UAE. 

The U.A.E.: A boom town where dollars trump democracy

Published On Sun Feb 13 2011EmailPrint
Bruce Campion-Smith-Toronto Star
Ottawa Bureau Chief

Fatima Khalid Al Attar is CEO and managing director of Interior Dot Com, a Dubai-based company that designs interiors for offices, apartments and retail outlets. Behind her is her latest project, a tall tower on Dubai's busy Sheikh Zayed Rd.

DUBAI—Political science professor Abdulkhaleq Abdulla has idealistic young students like any other professor. Asked if they aspire to a fully democratic United Arab Emirates, he provides an almost plaintive response:

“I do.”

“Who wouldn’t want to have that, an elected body, an elected parliament and participation and better media . . . these are simple human rights to be observed by everybody,” says Abdulla, a lecturer at Emirates University, a modern school where female students outnumber males 3-to-1.

“I think everybody yearns for the time when you could express your feelings and your thinking as freely as possible. It’s awkward to be the best when it comes to human development indexes yet the worst when it comes to freedom and political liberty.”

There is little doubt liberty is lacking in the U.A.E. The organization Freedom House declared that the U.A.E. is “not free” after weighing the state of civil liberties and political freedoms.

Abdulla, who wears salt-and-pepper stubble and a white keffiyeh — the traditional Arab head covering for men — says uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt have been a “historical turning point” and that one day the Arab world will view their history as pre-Tunisia and post-Tunisia.

“It is really resonating throughout everywhere,” he says. But then he adds this caution: “It is inspirational, but not necessarily contagious.”

People in the United Arab Emirates, like most in the Arab world, have been transfixed by the revolts in Tunisia and Egypt. It’s played out on the front pages of The National and Gulf News, the two big English newspapers, and has dominated Arab-language newscasts.

But residents here see themselves as spectators to upheaval elsewhere, not revolutionaries in their own land. The reasons: This nation is impressively prosperous — it has the 21st highest GDP per capita in the world, one spot ahead of Canada — there are no shortages of basics and there is less repressiveness than in other regimes.

Just ask the royal family.

Maktoum bin Saeed Al Maktoum is a lieutenant with the Dubai police, but also a member of Dubai royalty. He pours a small cup of Arabic coffee and, being the good host, remains standing while his guest sips the hot drink.

It’s only when a refill has been politely refused that he sits. And then he begins his lengthy explanation of why the unrest is unlikely to ever take root in the United Arab Emirates.

“For us, it’s not part of our culture to raise flags and talk and say ‘hey, we need this to be changed,’” he says.

Al Maktoum, 34, has welcomed a guest into a special room reserved for receiving visitors. He lives in a large house — like most in Dubai, surrounded by a wall — in the Jumeirah section of town, not far from the waters of the Persian Gulf. He interrupts conversation often as he plays the role of host in serving from platters of hors d’oeuvres and sweets that have been laid out along with heaping bowls of fresh dates.

He is animated, cynical and, by his own admission, outspoken.

Yet like most Emiratis, Al Maktoum is careful to distinguish between showing respect for the royal rulers while occasionally criticizing the performance of the bureaucrats and ministers responsible for the day-to-day running of the nation.

The United Arab Emirates is a federation of seven emirates on the south shore of the Persian Gulf. Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan, the ruler of Abu Dhabi, has served as the country’s president since 2004. The U.A.E.’s 5 million residents are invited to “connect with his Highness” on Facebook and Twitter, where he has 367,000 followers. The country’s prime minister is Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the ruler of Dubai. Both positions are appointed by the seven emirs.

The U.A.E. took tentative steps in 2006 to electoral reform, when it allowed hand-picked voters to choose half the membership of the Federal National Council, an advisory body. But the measures have been criticized as weak and half-hearted.

Yet in Al Maktoum’s view — echoed by many here — the government gets its legitimacy from tribal roots. The ruling families were originally selected by their tribes, a practice that dates back more than 150 years. Today, the country and its emirates are ruled by six families.

“This is extremely important when a person wants to understand why it’s running like this,” Al Maktoum says. “Tribal politics, where people highly respect the elders, the sheikh, is still there. Deep inside of us we still are pretty much as tribal as you would expect us to be. . . . There have been no revolts.”

Indeed, it’s been noted that while the Gulf states are not democracies, nor are they despotic or repressive regimes. Instead, they are “benevolent and paternalistic” as Abdulla likes to call it.

“The system here is very different and we know it’s different. When we compare ourselves to the other Gulf nations, we see it and we feel it,” Al Maktoum says. “Over here, I’m not going to say we have a perfect life. Anyone who says that is a liar. But I will tell you that all the basic stuff is available.

“If there is something we would like to revolt against, that would be the telecommunications. But,” he says with a chuckle, “that’s the same case back in Canada.”

Dubai is a city born from the desert.

In just a few short decades it has been transformed from a sleepy trading village into a regional powerhouse for commerce and finance — and it has the skyscraper-filled skyline to show it. It boasts the world’s tallest building, the Burj Khalifa, which handily surpassed the CN Tower when it opened last year (828 metres to 555 metres). In 2007, it was said that one-quarter of the world’s construction cranes were clustered here, changing the skyline month-by-month.

The worldwide recession has cooled the economic frenzy. Apartment rents have been slashed, hotel rooms are half the price they were four years ago — from about $400 a night to $250 in one case — and construction has slowed. But this still remains a boom town.

From the start, this city has defied those who mocked its ambitions. Oversized plans to build a deep-water port, woo international tourists, grow a global airline — all predicted to fail — have instead succeeded and put Dubai in the map.

The city, home to 1.87 million (up seven per cent in the first nine months of 2010), is a mix of old and new. There is a warren of old streets in the spice and gold souks (bazaars) to the glamour of the Dubai Mall, where high-end retailers such as Cartier, Versace and Mont Blanc speak to the spending power. The mall claims to have had more visitors in 2010 — 47 million — than Italy.

Dubai is the glitzy sister of the U.A.E. Abu Dhabi, the country’s capital, is the subdued and serious sibling. But the business-friendly attitude that characterizes residents in both cities is reflected in their attitude toward government, where pragmatism triumphs over democratic longings.

“The government structure is quite good,” says Fatima Khalid Al Attar, who heads a Dubai design firm. “It suits us. It helps us to grow. We don’t see the need to have that kind of democracy. . . .

“We’re not like outdated or close-minded. We have full freedom to think like the other developed countries. . . . We have seen other countries going into democracies and having more issues. In fact, we say we have lived with this kind of government structure, we are used to it. We treat them like fatherhood. We like their decisions.”

Al Attar, 32, is president and CEO of Interior Dot Com, which designs interiors for offices, stores and restaurants. These days she works out of an office in a parking garage, past stacks of construction material and other cubbyhole offices taking the spaces once occupied by cars.

The garage is the makeshift site office for the construction project next door. Here Al Attar is helping steer the latest change to Dubai’s skyline — a soaring 65-storey tower along busy Sheikh Zayed Road that will be home to a family-friendly hotel that won’t serve alcohol.

Working alongside the construction trades, Al Attar is a woman in a predominantly man’s world.

“It’s a country where the women can really (succeed). I can say that very easily. We get all the rights that a man gets. In fact, you could say there’s more respect for women.”

In a paper done last September for the London School of Economics, Abdulla noted the dramatic rise of the middle class across the Gulf states, but lamented that they are “politically docile.”

“The logic of the governing system is simple: why enact political reform when the old social contract is still binding and almost all of life’s necessities are amply provided for. No one is genuinely interested in changing the political status quo when prosperity, security and stability are fully guaranteed,” he wrote.

Indeed, there is a view that democracy is “divisive and destabilizing and breeds conflict,” he noted. “The majority do not want to tamper with political and economic stability.”

This appears to apply even to young people in U.A.E., the ones leading the charge for change elsewhere.

“We have the best democracy system ever,” gushes Samr al Marzouqi, 25.

“As Emiratis, we’re very thankful. Things are good. Of course nothing is perfect, there are lots of issues here and there. We are facing it and working to fix it,” al Marzouqi says by telephone from Abu Dhabi.

Al Marzouqi studied media at Dubai Men’s College and has enjoyed a rapid career rise. He became the youngest executive for Viacom, running MTV Arabia. Today, he is brand manager with twofour54, a company that produces content for Arab media. Open for just two years, the company has more than 100 partners, including the Financial Times, CNN, Viacom, Cartoon Network and Fox.

He paints a picture of a government that is responsive and effective. If you can’t get a beef resolved with a government department, you can always take your complaint directly to the country’s rulers — literally.

Once or twice a week, residents can go to the ruler’s court (or even his residence) in sessions known as a majlis and speak with the sheikh. It’s a carry-over from the tribal days. And these face-to-face sessions help keep the leaders in touch with community. Urgent problems are dealt with immediately. Visitors with less pressing issues may have to make a visit or two before they get their audience.

It’s akin to Prime Minister Stephen Harper opening the doors of 24 Sussex weekly to field complaints from Canadians and having a cadre of staff on hand to fix those gripes.

“It’s an open-door policy,” says Al Marzouqi. “Everyone can go.”

Ali Alsaloom, 31, is similarly aghast at the notion that the people would rise up against the country’s leadership.

“There is no way on Earth anyone would wish anything but the way it is right now,” he says in a telephone interview.

Alsaloom is a U.A.E. national who attended school in both the United States and at Wilfrid Laurier in Waterloo where he did an MBA. He then returned home where he works as an author, speaker and self-styled “cultural consultant” who likes to introduce visitors to the culture and heritage of his country.

“When it comes to our part of the world, we all don’t see governments as governments. We see them as in father, as in mother.

“With that approach, you don’t get that kind of thoughts in your mind that you want to change. Never. Because you don’t change your parents.”

It helps that the U.A.E. is far ahead of other Arab nations in key measures on human development. The 2009 Arab Human Development Report found the U.A.E. had low youth unemployment; a low rate of poverty; highest life expectancy in the Arab world and the lowest infant mortality rate.

All that makes the U.A.E. a “qualitatively different political paradigm” than most of the Arab countries, lacking many of the irritants that give rise to revolt, said Taufiq Rahim, a visiting fellow at the Dubai School of Government.

For that reason, he said the U.A.E. is “relatively inoculated” against the events unfolding in Egypt.

“No. 1, 80 per cent of the people in the country are not U.A.E. nationals (they are workers from other countries) and No. 2, you have a situation where both the nationals and residents economically benefit from the model that exists here.

“For U.A.E. nationals, the economic compact that the government has with them is extremely beneficial one — guaranteed employment, housing credits, provision of social services like education and health, lots of business opportunities.”

Yet behind the economic success are problems that could spell trouble for the country’s leadership, given the grassroots movements that have exploded elsewhere. This week, the Dubai chief of police warned that rising unemployment could cause unrest.

Human Rights Watch has accused the government of harassing human rights defenders and stifling dissent. In particular, the agency singled out the government’s treatment of members of the Jurist Association, an NGO that aims to promote the rule of law.

And last summer, the police arrested four young activists for organizing a peaceful protest about rising oil prices.

The government has also stepped up efforts to quell online dissent, cutting off access to news portals and blogs that encourage debate on topics such as freedom of expression and political rights.

“Authorities continue to prevent peaceful demonstrations and to harass local human rights defenders,” the organization noted in a 2010 assessment of the United Arab Emirates.

In a loft-style office with brick-lined walls more befitting a New York brownstone than modern Dubai, Ahmed Bin Shabib taps away on his Mac computer. The iPhone on the table beside him lights up with call after call, all ignored as he tells his story.

Bin Shabib, 27, and twin brother Rashid, are engaged in what they call “cultural engineering.” The two brothers are behind the stylish publication Brownbook. It’s a beautifully illustrated magazine that bills itself as an urban guide to the Middle East. Recent issues featured articles on 50 ideas making the region better, an up-and-coming Beirut neighbourhood, art and architecture.

They spent time in Boston before returning to Dubai, ditched careers in the financial sector and jumped into this cultural project. They are precisely the kind of young, worldly, tech-savvy people driving the revolutions in Egypt.

But Bin Shabib is unmoved when asked why there no democratic movement in the U.A.E.

“Democracy in Pakistan. Is that working?” he responds.

“Things are great. Everything is here. We have no taxes, things are fantastic, we can do whatever we want to, freedom of expression. We have some of the best retail and commercial spaces in the world. The weather is awesome all the time.

“It’s the truth.”


----------



## noir-dresses

http://www.emirates247.com/property...contracts-and-get-refunds-2011-02-14-1.356178

Law may empower investors to cancel contracts, and get refunds.

I wouldn't mind getting some of my money back from a lemon project that never got completed at another project.


----------



## Rafbor

Hi All,

Looking for some good advice. 
I am a new landlord in dubai and am looking to rent out my property, ideally for a few years and "hope" for an uptun in the property market, sell and get out! 

Being a novice in the Dubai property market, can you please advise if there are any pitfalls that I am over-looking. i.e. if I have a tenant in a property is there any obstacle to me asking them to leave(at the end of their lease) so the property can be sold? 

All good advice is welcome


----------



## True Blue

Just refuse to negotiate a reduction in the rent, that normally gets them outkay:

It is still possible to sell a property with a tenant in place, might even be a selling point.


----------



## MarkWass

Although there would be no room for any agents bs, as the yield would be instantly given in black and white...


----------



## OmarFromFrance

Hi,

Any update ? I was told few weeks ago that Rufi was supposed to resume the works on site. Is it confirmed ?

Regards,
Omar


----------



## burntfingers

Dear All

Are any of you still alive and fighting ?
Natoush - How are you progressing ?
Wac - What have you found out ?

Come on Guys - We need to work together

Latest News from DEC on Lawns 4. In negotiation with another construction company. Completion date now looking at another 2 years !!!!! 
Where do we stand legally regarding these time scales?
Do I have to pay 3,000 AED and register BEFORE I can pursue any legal action OR get some or all of my monies back. I have paid 83%. Who can advise me?

Contact me privately if you cannot trust the open dialogue page.

Thank you.
Burntfingers


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Developers offer apartments to settle dues*



> By Parag Deulgaonkar | Published Tuesday, February 15, 2011
> 
> Developers in the UAE have offered Gowealthy.com apartments, off-plan and at a very high price, in exchange for millions they owe to the company in commission, company chairman told *Emirates 24|7*.
> 
> “We have been offered off plan properties, at very high prices, by developers who owe millions in commission to us. Units being off plan and steep prices don’t make any sense,” KV Sidharthan said.
> 
> “We favour out-of-court settlements… we are in negotiations with developers and are flexible in our approach.”
> 
> Industry sources confirm that a number of developers have taken the approach of settling their arrears by offering apartments to their debtors, but deals haven’t been struck due to the pricing difference.
> 
> Refuting a media report on gowealthy.com being sold, Sidharthan said: “We haven’t sold anything nor do we plan to… our lawyers have sent notice to the publication.”
> 
> Although the slowdown in the UAE realty market forced Gowealthy to downsize its operations, mostly the sales department, it now is expanding into new territories.
> 
> “We will be expanding our operations to 25 countries. We have already launched websites for six new countries,” he added.
> 
> Global consultancies and real estate experts believe property prices in the UAE will continue their slide this year with recovery likely in 2012.
> 
> Kuwait-based Global Investment House expects housing oversupply, price declines and slow transaction volumes to again dominate market dynamics in the UAE this year, while Jones Lang LaSalle said residential market in Dubai will continue to experience a situation of oversupply with prices not expected to recover before 2012.


http://www.emirates247.com/property...apartments-to-settle-dues-2011-02-15-1.356045


----------



## Wac

Burntfingers - Seems like the situation is "burntbody". I went to Lands department but could not meet with the right person. But, I was able to see some nice realtor who was aware of most of the projects' situation in the market and seems "expert" in these legal matters as well. He informed me that whatever the situation is, the investor has to apply in court for refund (if developer is not paying it willingly). There are 'chances' that you will get the money but still not 100% money. Rough cost of this process is about AED 150,000 and 1.5 year of battle. After listening this, I decided to watch, see and pray that the developer does not run away. Even to prove that these situations are not forcemajour, you have to apply through court and then the same story.There are not many options for us. If someone else has better option, please let me know.


----------



## speculator

noir-dresses said:


> I read this article this morning, its a good read, and in a way shows how the UAE is safe from what is happening in the rest of the middle east. Some one actually asked me a few days ago will the UAE see demonstrations ? and my answer was they live so good there, what would they demonstrate about ????
> 
> All in all, I'm confident the property market is safe in the UAE.
> 
> The U.A.E.: A boom town where dollars trump democracy
> 
> 
> “Things are great. Everything is here. We have no taxes, things are fantastic, we can do whatever we want to, freedom of expression. We have some of the best retail and commercial spaces in the world. The weather is awesome all the time.
> 
> “It’s the truth.”


Its really the Switzerland of the Arab region. Of course UAE has a many issues to sort out but all in all the prospects aren't bad when we start comparing.


----------



## Waiting_Forever

Memon are a bunch of professional liars and thieves as I see it. They have covered their backside in all of their projects by at least starting them, even if by digging a hole. Whatever I hear from Memon is lies and more lies. They just make empty promises with no intention in honouring their word. I am not sure how much longer they will take to complete any of their projects. For me, as a simple person, it makes sense to complete one project and then move to another one. This gang have not finished a single project so far, despite starting a handful of projects. I really don’t know how they thank or with what their boss is thinking. 

I understand that just like other developers they have a cash flow problem. Complete one building, hand over and get your money, and continue with another building, and so on. Can someone tell me where am I wrong in my assumption?


----------



## Cyrus55

Question, if a tenant wishes to reduce his rent is that important to ask before the three month notice period or he still could ask after notice period? Or he has to continue with the current contract?


----------



## Winded

*Pru Group Email*

Here is an email that I received from prd group supposedly trying to sort this nightmare out:


_Thank you for taking the time to fill out our questionnaire on the Investigation and Project Completion Feasibility of the Wind Towers 1 & 2 developments in Jumeirah Lake Towers.

Your input is invaluable to our efforts in protecting your investment. A detailed report will be sent through to you, as soon as the results of the survey have been compiled.

Kind Regards,

Sheena George._
[email protected]





click my signature to download my vcard


----------



## True Blue

Good question, 

He should do the negotiation before his notice period stipulated in the contract. Many are trying it on, and hope the market is going down so they can negotiate a better price at the end of the contract. Legally not on.

Tell your tenant that the contract has been automatically renewed at the existing rate as no notice was served. Any new negotiated rate will only take effect 3 months from now. The rent tribunal will find in your favour if they walk away and don't honour the contract.


----------



## noir-dresses

Bad said:


> why no one telling the new news ?? red group will pay or will lose ? ... thats what i know and that what i enjoy ... all of you that did not paid are going to pay soon ,, as i know and you know


We need some music to go with your sensationalism. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW0QoCgxcHc

Enjoy, give it all you got now.


----------



## gerald.d

Cyrus55 said:


> Question, if a tenant wishes to reduce his rent is that important to ask before the three month notice period or he still could ask after notice period? Or he has to continue with the current contract?


The 3 month notice period is for the landlord.

The tenant has a 2 month notice period.


----------



## 234sale

If you have a good landlord or tenant,, It's worth that little extra to keep them.

My landlord is so slack, he didn't collect the cheque for 6 months,, he also reduced the rent and gave me a month free.

I've been in my current apartment for 4 years now...



As per the legal side,, what is ever written.. As to trying to get a reduction for the remaining period,, forget it,, bit like asking for more ..

The market has countless new apartments, it's a new tenants market..


----------



## jeetha

^^without the new tenants.


----------



## 234sale

Bad News,, Many buildings that converted space to offices back in 2006 on SHZ Road are now being switched back to Ressy, due to no demand for commercial.

Also comercial Villa's are becoming Villas again.


----------



## bizzybonita

Law may empower investors to cancel contracts and get refunds

By Parag Deulgaonkar
Published Monday, February 14, 2011



Real Estate Investor Protection Law is likely to be unveiled this year, says bin Mijrin

The Real Estate Investor Protection Law is likely to be unveiled this year, which will empower investors to seek cancellation of contracts if the developer fails to fulfill his contractual obligations, Director-General of Dubai Land Department has said.

In an article published in Al Bayan, Sultan Butti bin Mijrin said: “The new law consists of approximately 30 articles, all in the interest of the investors, providing them a complete and comprehensive legal support to protect their purchases of properties.

The law is due for release this year.”In January, Emirates 24/7 had reported that the law was due for release this year.

The law will address grounds for cancellation such as a developer's refusal to link payments to construction milestones, or if he makes material changes to specifications.

It will also deal with refund or replacement issues in the event of a material defect and financial penalties for delay in delivery.

Mijrin said: “The law will provide the grounds that give the investor the right to resort to cancel the sales and purchase contract with the developer and even recover dues in full.”

Although the Land Department has created a mediation committee that offers remedy only if the developer and the investor agree to settle their issues amicably. In case of disagreement, the issue is to be resolved through the court.

According to Ludmila Yamalova, Managing Partner of HPL Yamalova & Plewka, filing a formal case is an expensive and time-consuming proposition.

The overall cost includes court fee of 7.5 per cent of the value of the case or a maximum of Dh30,000, per contract, which is to be paid before filing of the case; translation costs as every document submitted to the court has to be translated into Arabic and, finally, the attorney cost, which varies greatly, but is required to be paid up front.

“Most of the time, the minimum expense of litigating a case is Dh150,000,” she added.

A number of investors have been aggressively forming groups and have been petitioning Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) to take action against erring developers. Rera has said it has cancelled 202 projects and expects the number to rise this year.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...contracts-and-get-refunds-2011-02-14-1.356178


----------



## noir-dresses

Double post back at 25849, I beet you to the punch Bizzy. :banana:


----------



## bizzybonita

:banana::banana:


----------



## Imanoan

*Rufi Update - Feb 2011 - Action Plan for Twin Towers Investors*

I recently visited Dubai and went to the Twin Towers site. No workers there. Only site security. I was told by the guys onsite that No work has been done for last 6-8 months. "No cash" they said.
I spoke to folks at Rufi about Twin Towers They promised me that work will restart in a few weeks. They are using money from the soon to be completed International City Project to fund completion of Rufi Twin Towers.

I suggest to all investors in Rufi Twin Towers that we form a committee and put pressure on them even if they continue working this month. They need to communicate every month all work and phase completion. Otherwise collectively we can hire an attorney who can push our legal rights. There has been no transperency on this project. We should get status updates every month and a firm commitment for a handover date. 

*Step 1- We need 2-3 spokespersons for our committee.
We will be more effective as a group than individuals. Please need volunteers in Dubai?
Step 2: Our Demands:
1- Firm Handover Date
2- Monthly Updates/Pictures
3- Any other Suggestions?

After we finish this, we can draft a letter/email and all send to Rufi on the same date. in about 2 weeks time. We can plan this in the next few days. Please let me know if you all agree or have any other suggestion. We need all investors to stick together and form this committee. thx*


----------



## ummbutti

Wac said:


> Burntfingers - Seems like the situation is "burntbody". I went to Lands department but could not meet with the right person. But, I was able to see some nice realtor who was aware of most of the projects' situation in the market and seems "expert" in these legal matters as well. He informed me that whatever the situation is, the investor has to apply in court for refund (if developer is not paying it willingly). There are 'chances' that you will get the money but still not 100% money. Rough cost of this process is about AED 150,000 and 1.5 year of battle. After listening this, I decided to watch, see and pray that the developer does not run away. Even to prove that these situations are not forcemajour, you have to apply through court and then the same story.There are not many options for us. If someone else has better option, please let me know.


During all My communication with RERA ,I received the same reply as above.
last week I emailed the RERA CEO to know the actual progress of LAWNS2 as they promised me to upload the new updated progress report to their website six months back.
They answered that they already gave order for Screampoint to inspect the project and get the updated technical report with the construction progress, which is going to be uploaded/reflected in the website.
I asked what is Next ???? when to cancel the project and get our money back since the project seems to be on hold forever? and they said .. You should wait to see the inspection result. 
But as I understand , This is a looooong process and we will not get the 100% of our money.


----------



## Garden city

*Wow !! so inactive !*

I am just amazed at how this thread has turned now  it used to one of the most highly accessed and updated pages on this website but now it goes even 2 days without any updates.

The marina and JBR banner on SSC today looks awesome.


----------



## vaksa

Anybody understands this?

"The court also stated that although the cheque was originally considered a mode of payment, but withdrawing it will never be considered acquaintance of its owner, unless the drawee has received its value."

http://www.emirates247.com/property...f-exchange-says-top-court-2011-02-20-1.358347


----------



## samosasam

I couldn't agree more Iman. I would be very interested in forming some sort of committee. I am not in Dubai but do go there fairly often. Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to do this?


----------



## noir-dresses

http://www.emirates247.com/property...iah-compliant-grand-mufti-2011-02-20-1.358164

Profit for delayed period of project is not shariah compliant, Grand Mufti.


----------



## True Blue

vaksa said:


> Anybody understands this?
> 
> "The court also stated that although the cheque was originally considered a mode of payment, but withdrawing it will never be considered acquaintance of its owner, unless the drawee has received its value."
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/property...f-exchange-says-top-court-2011-02-20-1.358347


What they are saying is, although the seller took the cheque in their hand (withdrawing it from the buyer) they did not cash it into the sellers account (the seller being the owner of the cheque as it bears his name as the payee) so although he has the cheque in his hand it is not payment until the funds are shown in the sellers account(the drawee being the seller drawing the cash value into his account).

In simple terms, the sale is not complete until the cheque is cashed into the sellers account. So the seller can return the cheque and cancel the sale. This is why all house purchases in the UK are done using chaps or a solicitor to solicitor bank draft and never a personal cheque direct to the seller. Solicitors set up the sale to be instant at an agreed day and time so as soon as the money hits their account, you pick up your keys and walk in, sale conpleted.


----------



## Jodel

Garden city said:


> I am just amazed at how this thread has turned now  it used to one of the most highly accessed and updated pages on this website but now it goes even 2 days without any updates.
> 
> But that is usually over the weekend


----------



## pisandre

Imanoan said:


> I suggest to all investors in Rufi Twin Towers that we form a committee and put pressure on them even if they continue working this month. They need to communicate every month all work and phase completion. Otherwise collectively we can hire an attorney who can push our legal rights. There has been no transperency on this project. We should get status updates every month and a firm commitment for a handover date.


My friend. Rufi are jokers. They don't give a damn about the investors. Except when they are claiming for installments. Then they remember you. I can remember when the head of recovery told me that the project will restart quickly (it was in jan 2009) and that after 8 months 2nd floor will be completed. Obviously the project is still a big hole. You are going to waste your time with them. As I said in the past, better to hire a hitman :lol:. Good luck anyway....


----------



## Opus 2009

Does anyone know what the entitlement to compensation is for size difference. I understand that there was a law passed last year to clarify this issue. If anyone can forward me a link to it, would appreciate it. My apartment was off by 8.5% in terms of size.


----------



## sgn7200

ummbutti said:


> During all My communication with RERA ,I received the same reply as above.
> last week I emailed the RERA CEO to know the actual progress of LAWNS2 as they promised me to upload the new updated progress report to their website six months back.
> They answered that they already gave order for Screampoint to inspect the project and get the updated technical report with the construction progress, which is going to be uploaded/reflected in the website.
> I asked what is Next ???? when to cancel the project and get our money back since the project seems to be on hold forever? and they said .. You should wait to see the inspection result.
> But as I understand , This is a looooong process and we will not get the 100% of our money.


Dear Ummbutti - would you be so kind to let us know the Email address of RERA CEO so that we may also put plight before him. Many thanks.


----------



## vaksa

^^
# 25695 on this thread and below.


----------



## vaksa

^^
^^
Thanks, True Blue!


----------



## rags

True Blue said:


> What they are saying is, although the seller took the cheque in their hand (withdrawing it from the buyer) they did not cash it into the sellers account (the seller being the owner of the cheque as it bears his name as the payee) so although he has the cheque in his hand it is not payment until the funds are shown in the sellers account(the drawee being the seller drawing the cash value into his account).
> 
> In simple terms, the sale is not complete until the cheque is cashed into the sellers account. So the seller can return the cheque and cancel the sale. This is why all house purchases in the UK are done using chaps or a solicitor to solicitor bank draft and never a personal cheque direct to the seller. Solicitors set up the sale to be instant at an agreed day and time so as soon as the money hits their account, you pick up your keys and walk in, sale conpleted.


The sentence as reported makes no sense whatsoever. I have no quarrel with what TB says in para 2 but let me just explain this much:
If Vaksa draws (signs) a cheque drawn on, say, HSBC Dubai in favour of TB, then Vaksa is the Drawer (payer), TB is the Payee while HSBC Dubai is the Drawee. In other words, the bank on which a cheque is drawn is the Drawee.
The Payee (seller) is not the Drawee.


----------



## True Blue

^^That makes more sense.

I was using my previous legal knowledge of this situation where a bad client claimed they had paid on time for work done as they had posted a cheque but the cheque arrived too late to be drawn by the payment date stipulated in the contract. We then sued for breach of contract and claimed interest on commercial debts for 2 years worth of delayed payments. 

Some people niavely believe that handing over a cheque is payment, it is not, it is only an intention to pay.


----------



## Parisian Girl

*FZEs can get freehold registration*



> After Jafza, DSO and DMCC may get Land Department facility
> 
> By Parag Deulgaonkar | Published Monday, February 21, 2011
> 
> Offshore companies in other free zones and not just Jebel Ali Free Zone Authority (Jafza) may be allowed to register titles for freehold properties with the Dubai Land Department (DLD), Emirates 24|7 can reveal.
> 
> “We are in the process of discussing and talking with other free zones. The move is aimed to give the real estate market more regulation so as to achieve transparency, clarity and effectiveness in real estate transactions that relate to ownership of real estate by offshore companies in Dubai,” a department official said.
> 
> The department is holding discussions with Dubai Silicon Oasis and Dubai Multi Commodities Centre, according to the official.
> 
> The Land Department has already signed a memorandum of understanding with Jebel Ali Free Zone Authority (Jafza) whereby title for freehold properties will be issued to Jafza-registered offshore companies only.
> The guidelines are not retrospectively effective and apply solely to new registrations after January 1.
> 
> The move is aimed to help the DLD update information on offshore companies, their shareholding pattern and make it easy for the department to interact with the property owners.
> 
> According to the official, the department will be charging a fee of two per cent (one per cent from the seller and one per cent from the buyer) and companies will not have to re-register if the apartments are registered with the Oqood (off plan registration) system.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/fzes-can-get-freehold-registration-2011-02-21-1.358874


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Rera to update Dubai rent index every four months*



> Move towards proper implementation of Ruler's decree capping rent rate in the emirate
> 
> By WAM | Published Monday, February 21, 2011
> 
> Real Estate Regulator Authority (Rera) announced on Monday night that the rent index tables set by the Dubai Land Department before two years are subject to updating every four months to enable proper implementation of the Ruler's decree capping the rent rate in the emirate.
> 
> The decree passed earlier in January had set the rates of maximum rent increases on properties leased out before its enforcement and varies according to the rental values.
> 
> Article 2 of the decree endorses the Real Estate Regulator Authority (Rera) rent index as the main reference to determine the average rent in the emirate.


http://www.emirates247.com/property...t-index-every-four-months-2011-02-21-1.359095


----------



## ummbutti

sgn7200 said:


> Dear Ummbutti - would you be so kind to let us know the Email address of RERA CEO so that we may also put plight before him. Many thanks.


Here is the email of RERA CEO Marwan Bin Ghulaita:
[email protected]

By the way,He is very nice and cooperative Person.


----------



## TerryPop

*Nakheel watch*

"We are about to sign a major contract that we will announce soon. Officially, we have reached 91 per cent overall agreement. I hope to finish all agreements with the creditors *within two weeks*," Ali Rashid Lootah, Nakheel Chairman told newsmen at a media briefing on Wednesday.


Its been 4 weeks since Lootah made this statement, 4 weeks as of tomorrow.

Nakheel- leapord and spots.


----------



## True Blue

I have a friend who is a contract specialist working flat out with Nakheel re draughting new contracts for the contractors taking into account creditors agreements and new performance criterea. To my surprise the take up of the Nakheel offer has been well received by the contractors and all are being paid costs to remobilise to site and recommence working under the revised contracts. If this impetus is sustained then we should see the relevant sites all working at good progress rates by the middle of the year.


----------



## Richard Head

True Blue said:


> I have a friend who is a contract specialist working flat out with Nakheel re draughting new contracts for the contractors taking into account creditors agreements and new performance criterea. To my surprise the take up of the Nakheel offer has been well received by the contractors and all are being paid costs to remobilise to site and recommence working under the revised contracts. If this impetus is sustained then we should see the relevant sites all working at good progress rates by the middle of the year.


Sounds good TB. Do you know what the "relevant sites" are in this case? Is it the list issued recently by Nakheel or is there more or less than that actually getting moving?


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> I have a friend who is a contract specialist working flat out with Nakheel re draughting new contracts for the contractors taking into account creditors agreements and new performance criterea. To my surprise the take up of the Nakheel offer has been well received by the contractors and all are being paid costs to remobilise to site and recommence working under the revised contracts. If this impetus is sustained then we should see the relevant sites all working at good progress rates by the middle of the year.


Great info TB, much appreciated :cheers:


----------



## True Blue

I know he is working on the JV sites, villas. It should be more or less as the list. Nakheel are being more transparent now confirming some projects that are cancelled.


----------



## MarkWass

TB: This list that you refer to… Does it include only projects where Nakheel are the developer? Or does it include projects from other developers that have been stagnant for many years, (eg Metropolis Lofts) where Nakheel are the master developer? 

Is there a link to this list of cancelled projects? Perhaps I’m being blind, but I couldn’t find it on google


----------



## Winded

*Update from PRD Nationwide*

Got this email today from PRD Nationwaide who are making representations to RERA to take over construction.

Dear Richard,

Thank you for your email.

Further to your enquiry, this is to inform that we have submitted the results of the Wind Tower survey to RERA and are awaiting their instructions as to the next step.

Unfortunately, we are not in a position to further progress the matter without RERA's sanction.

Kind Regards,

Sheena George.
[email protected]

Thanks for your comments guys - Crazy Horse I think yours wins the prize - this BAD idiot really is hno:


----------



## Morrismarina

rags said:


> The sentence as reported makes no sense whatsoever. I have no quarrel with what TB says in para 2 but let me just explain this much:
> If Vaksa draws (signs) a cheque drawn on, say, HSBC Dubai in favour of TB, then Vaksa is the Drawer (payer), TB is the Payee while *HSBC Dubai is the Drawee.* In other words, the bank on which a cheque is drawn is the Drawee.
> *The Payee (seller) is not the Drawee.*


Yes you are correct. TB doesn't know much about banking law. :lol:


----------



## True Blue

You are the banking expert but did not offer an explanation, instead you choose to ridicule in the hope it makes you look intelligent. Sorry Morris, too late for that, the horse has bolted!


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> TB: This list that you refer to… Does it include only projects where Nakheel are the developer? Or does it include projects from other developers that have been stagnant for many years, (eg Metropolis Lofts) where Nakheel are the master developer?
> 
> Is there a link to this list of cancelled projects? Perhaps I’m being blind, but I couldn’t find it on google


Mark, try the Nakheel thread and you might have better luck. I'm sure the press release was posted here also.

I am asking myself, why would Nakheel re employ contractors to complete Metropolis lofts which I believe is a UKCIG private project?


----------



## MarkWass

Scott, I’m still being blind..

Do you mean this Nakheel thread?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=570181&highlight=nakheel&page=23

As for the comment about Nakheel re employing contractors to complete someone else’s private project. Unless I was misinformed, I was led to believe that a master developer was able to give another developer the chance to complete a project that falls within their master development if the original developer does a runner / does not deliver…


----------



## True Blue

You have to adopt a common sense approach, with so many Nakheel projects on hold does it make logical sense that they would use valuable resources to bail out a private developer ahead of their own interests?

That aside, I don't know of a single development that either Nakheel or Emaar have taken over from a troubled private developer and completed for the benefit of someone elses customers. If I was an investor on Palm Jebal Ali and learned of such a case I would be furious that my invested cash might be helping a failed private venture.


----------



## ummbutti

GTR11 said:


> has he actually responded to your e-mail? He is very busy , probably gets 1000 e-mails per day/


Yes. That's why I said he is nice and cooperative. He read all my emails and responded to me immediatley and professionally by himeself .Sometimes he forwards the email to his team for any necessary reason.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I noticed that when renting a property in Dubai, agents usually charge the tenant a 5% fee and the landlord does not pay anything. However, agents also offer a management service for the property in addition to just finding a tenant. What is the normal % rate for this with Better Homes etc.?


----------



## NeilP

Dubai_Steve said:


> I noticed that when renting a property in Dubai, agents usually charge the tenant a 5% fee and the landlord does not pay anything. However, agents also offer a management service for the property in addition to just finding a tenant. What is the normal % rate for this with Better Homes etc.?


Landmark charge 5% of rental for property management.


----------



## 234sale

5-10% managment and service contract.. IE ac units and internals


----------



## Dubai_Steve

TB how much do Better Homes charge you, or do you do your own property management? Isn''t that difficult from UK?


----------



## noir-dresses

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...ace-fines-developers-told-2011-02-23-1.359662

Full disclosure update investors of face fines developers told.

This is a step in the rite direction.


----------



## 234sale

Steve,, your obvioulsy not in Dubai

I would go with the landmark, asteco, H&G option


----------



## Optymyst

*United we stand, divided we fall.*

l am in agreement with the guy who wants to put pressure on Rufi to COMMUNICATE with us. l don't live in Dubai but l will be happy to join a group who work together to make sensible and legal attempts to get Rufi to treat their Twin Towers' investors with respect and courtesy: a good start would be updating us regularly about the situation so we know what they are actually doing to get the wretched project finished and handed over.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

propertyfinder gives the following stats:

1 beds in Dubai Marina for Rent, 559 listings, most common price 75,000
2 beds in Dubai Marina for Rent, 606 listings, most common price 110,000


----------



## HateTorch

Dubai_Steve said:


> --- snip --- However, agents also offer a management service for the property in addition to just finding a tenant. What is the normal % rate for this with Better Homes etc.?


I have stayed in my old burdubai area for more than xx years, so agent fee is no longer applicable. Dewa started to introduce Housing Fee last month for my area.
From there I can deduce that 4K goes to the Building Management (not betterhomes) yearly.

Edit: I meant to say this from tenant perspectives, ie extra 4K is charged by Building Management. I am no landlord.


----------



## 234sale

Property Managment... Is an agent service for your tenant to make a complaint to, usually a asecondary sevice provider is also used for internal maintainance.
Facilities Managment.. Is the security, cleaning, rubbish collection, commen areas ect
Housing Fee goes to the goverment,, 5% of the rent, paid in DEWA


----------



## noir-dresses

Have you guys ever thought that there might be a whole lot of money finding its way to the UAE with all these middle eastern country's being toppled. 

Billions upon billions within weeks, any chance that might help the UAE economy ?

All those rulers, and there families have to live some where.


----------



## MarkWass

^^ maybe. But suspect if they are relocating... then Monaco, Geneva or London may be more appealing to the likes of the people you refer to??


----------



## 234sale

^^ Agreed,, these people already have assets in Monaco, Geneva or London.. But the money being moved actually maybe be more in the otherway as opportunities now in their country as the top dog is gone.


----------



## Pleth

Todays newspaper:
http://gulfnews.com/business/property/general/realty-shock-1bhk-for-25-000-1.766737

A flat that used to rent for 60k finds no takers even at 25k today. As rents and prices slide sharply, all are wondering if this is the bottom or there's more to come


----------



## Pleth

MarkWass said:


> ^^ maybe. But suspect if they are relocating... then Monaco, Geneva or London may be more appealing to the likes of the people you refer to??



No, I don't think Europe is a safe place to *hide* dirty money anymore.


----------



## speculator

noir-dresses said:


> Have you guys ever thought that there might be a whole lot of money finding its way to the UAE with all these middle eastern country's being toppled.
> 
> Billions upon billions within weeks, any chance that might help the UAE economy ?
> 
> All those rulers, and there families have to live some where.


As I said a couple of weeks back. Dubai is the Switzerland of this region.


----------



## Imre

Pleth said:


> No, I don't think Europe is a safe place to *hide* dirty money anymore.


Liechtenstein still good and safe there is some really good banks.

Anyway I saw your old apartment in Dorrabay tonight, it will be vacant soon but now just for 56K/year


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai rentals: Studios @ Dh16k, 1-bed @ Dh21k, and falling...
One bedroom units available for as low as Dh21k in International City and 35k in Discovery Gardens









Rents in Dubai are touching new lows with one bedroom units being offered at Dh21,000 for a year in International City, while a similar unit at the Discovery Gardens is down to Dh35,000 from its peak of about Dh75,000, according to property advertisements posted earlier this week.

Experts say International City is a special case as it continues to face sewage flow problems in some parts of the development and the maintenance is also poor.

However, communities that are maintained well continue to witness robust lease rates. Rents in areas such as Dubai Marina, Downtown Dubai, The Meadows, Arabian Ranches and The Springs have not dropped significantly. But new areas that have peaked in deliveries recently have undergone a real fall in price and lease rates.

Studio flats at International City are now being offered for Dh16,000 to Dh18,000 a year, while studios at Discovery Gardens are now being offered at Dh24,000 - less than half of their peak asking rates in 2008.

Experts say that areas that will see further price falls and rental declines will be with respect to the new properties being handed over, where owners may be struggling to meet final payments - and the surrounding areas still look like building sites.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...k-1-bed-dh21k-and-falling-2011-02-24-1.360184


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Imre said:


> Anyway I saw your old apartment in Dorrabay tonight, it will be vacant soon but now just for 56K/year


This one is advertised at 62k

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...dorrabay&is_basic_search_widget=1&is_search=1


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> This one is advertised at 62k
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...dorrabay&is_basic_search_widget=1&is_search=1


You can advertise any prices but the market is something else.Not sure that one is the same but similar apartment available for 56K or even less if they will not find a tenant.


----------



## Pleth

Imre said:


> Liechtenstein still good and safe there is some really good banks.
> 
> Anyway I saw your old apartment in Dorrabay tonight, it will be vacant soon but now just for 56K/year


And I paid 115.000 Aed :lol::lol:


----------



## Pleth

speculator said:


> As I said a couple of weeks back. Dubai is the Switzerland of this region.


Well Switzerland is not safe anymore. EU has done everything in their power to stop it.
Even the Swiss bank employees have started to sell information about investors to goverments around EU.


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> Todays newspaper:
> http://gulfnews.com/business/property/general/realty-shock-1bhk-for-25-000-1.766737
> 
> A flat that used to rent for 60k finds no takers even at 25k today. As rents and prices slide sharply, all are wondering if this is the bottom or there's more to come


The bottom is surely 0 AED rent. With the amount of supply of mediocre units coming to the market in 2011 and 2012, the facts are that some units will not be rentable unless a maid or low paid worker can afford it.

The next cancer coming to Dubai is "not rented, not paying maintenance fees".

When this takes hold, buildings will degrade rapidly.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Pleth said:


> And I paid 115.000 Aed :lol::lol:


You mean the Dorrabay 1 bed has gone from 115k to 50k! That is a huge drop (56%) in price, similar to marina diamond prices etc. and lower than the current marina average price of 75k. Any reason this one is priced so low now compared to the other towers in the marina?


----------



## AppleMac

Dubai_Steve said:


> Any reason this one is priced so low now compared to the other towers in the marina?


Motorway slip road might have a bearing on the value of this individual unit if it is low floor.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> You mean the Dorrabay 1 bed has gone from 115k to 50k! That is a huge drop (56%) in price, similar to marina diamond prices etc. and lower than the current marina average price of 75k. Any reason this one is priced so low now compared to the other towers in the marina?


Where do you get an average of 75k for 1 bed in the marina? I would say the average is nearer 60-65k. You really don't know the market Steve, speak to tenants they are the market.

This particular 1 bed in Dorrabay is less than 700ft2 so is basically small. 55-60k is about right for it today. The larger 1 beds in Dorrabay unfortunately face Jumeirah towers construction site and are therefore difficult to rent at a decent price. Some 2 beds marina facing are getting the same or more than 3 beds Sea view due to the construction of JT now!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> Where do you get an average of 75k for 1 bed in the marina?












http://www.propertyfinder.ae/market+price+live/


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> 55-60k is about right for it today.


----------



## 234sale

Think TB is getting his info from Imre,, ?

Steve is also right,

But those property finder prices are asking prices,, what rent's is the cheapest.

It's tough for a landlord as the tenant will just wait for a cheaper one.

Developers and owners are on a fight to the bottom,, 

No reason for rents to be halve again,

But then Dubai becomes cheap for business and more people will come...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

234sale said:


> Think TB is getting his info from Imre,, ?
> 
> Steve is also right,
> 
> But those property finder prices are asking prices,, what rent's is the cheapest.


So this Dorra Bay 1 bed 888 sq ft for 50k will rent first but possibly for only 45k after an offer is put in. That is 60% of the current average advertised marina price and that is before all the expected supply comes on the market.

http://www.propertyfinder.ae/514621/

Dubai needs more incentives to attract residents other than cheap rentals.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> http://www.propertyfinder.ae/market+price+live/


I would say that analysis is skewed as there is no way the average 1 bed apartment is 953ft2. It is nearer 800ft2.

Could it be possible that all the agents are listing the prime larger 1 beds and avoiding smaller units that are harder to shift and yield less commision? Hence the skewed figures.:dunno:


----------



## gerald.d

234sale said:


> 2 Years on..
> 
> 8% Mortgage Rates
> No Visa's
> High set up costs


Everyone should become freelance photographers.

20K set-up costs, including 3 year visa. 13.5K licence renewal costs annually 

(that works out to the equivalent of less than a pint and a half of beer daily over 3 years. Bloody bargain if you ask me.)


----------



## Cyrus55

Question: Do you have to renew your tenancy contract every year? I let my flat last year and I haven’t received any notice from my tenant. The contact is for one year, should I contact and ask him if he wishes to renew his contract? 

What a landlord could do if the tenant breaks the contract and moving out without giving a notice after 12 month? 
Thanks for your answer in advance!


----------



## 234sale

Cyrus55 said:


> Question: Do you have to renew your tenancy contract every year? I let my flat last year and I haven’t received any notice from my tenant. The contact is for one year, should I contact and ask him if he wishes to renew his contract?
> 
> What a landlord could do if the tenant breaks the contract and moving out without giving a notice after 12 month?
> Thanks for your answer in advance!


1 Yes.
2 Contract is for one year only, 

Rental Committee will enforce the contract.

My Advice, contact them, see how much less they wanna pay.

Its a little cheaper to stay as cost of moving and agent fee can be avoided.


----------



## OmarFromFrance

Optymyst said:


> Imanoan (did l spell that right?) ........ you have very good ideas of what we need from Rufi and now we have someone who is going there in person and wants to help. What do you think we can do to open negotiations with Rufi to get us the communication you suggest? As l wrote before l will support all sensible and legal action. Are there any more on this Forum who will join us?
> 
> Act now because action speaks louder than words.


I am interested as long as the objective is to get more reliable & frequent information from RUFI. I don't want the project to stop. 
I gave a call to RUFI yesterday. They keep on saying that the works will resume in a few weeks' time. I told them I am fed up with hearing the same message every time I call them. I'll meet them this weekend. I know I will not get more information. At least I will have the opportunity to show them how much frustrated I am.


----------



## Optymyst

*Objectives*

l agree Omar l too am only interested in seeing the project finished.

It seems Rufi operate a somewhat defensive policy within their office whereby all staff are briefed to say the same thing to anyone who phones or visits the office. They don't bother to reply to emails. Last year it was 'completion will be third quarter 2011'..... this year it is 'work will be resuming in a few weeks'. What l don't think Rufi understand is that their investors are not inrealistic nor are most of them against them. l think we would all appreciate some reassurance that the project will continue and complete and one way to do that would be to email all the investors once a month with a news up date. lf there is no news then they could explain why and what they are doing about it. This would be good for them and us because it would pre-empt visits and enquiries saving all parties time and effort and might even develop some trust.

Bottom line is they are still trading and still in Dubai but they need to develop some customer relationship skills. Can we explain this to them and get them to co-operate?


----------



## agod

As a new member of our HOA Board, I have to obtain a police report, any ideas how I go about it, and the fees, involved Etc, Etc.

Al.


----------



## Imre

agod said:


> As a new member of our HOA Board, I have to obtain a police report, any ideas how I go about it, and the fees, involved Etc, Etc.
> 
> Al.


Do you need a criminal record?

http://www.dubaipolice.gov.ae/dp/english/e_services.jsp?Page=A26&Id=15283&num2=SRV&mainlayid=194


----------



## agod

Thanks Imre, and welcome back, I see you had to do your 3 months abroad, for not being an EU Citizen................mind you, nothing much happened in those months, no more one floor every 4 days.

I thought the Arianya tower was lease only? 

Al


----------



## Imre

Thanks

Yes, Ariyana just for lease,the tower is very popular, all 3 BR's and Type 2- 2 BR's rented out only SZR facing 2 BR/'s (Type 3 and 4 ) left.


----------



## Manjit Singh

I have lost all hopes from Al Manal. I am not sure what is happening. Can anyone update on this? Where do we all stand in terms of compensation from the builder.


----------



## Pleth

I hope the deceiving, cheating developers in Dubai will get the same treatment as this guy:
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/business-tycoon-al-boom-faces-923-years-in-jail-1.768805
923 years in jail!


----------



## Morrismarina

Pleth said:


> I hope the deceiving, cheating developers in Dubai will get the same treatment as this guy:
> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/business-tycoon-al-boom-faces-923-years-in-jail-1.768805
> 923 years in jail!


I love they way they use the word "swindling". What a rascal !! :lol:


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Buy a Palm Jumeirah home, get a Cadillac*



> By Deepthi Nair, Sub Editor, Property | Published: 00:00 March 1, 2011
> 
> Dubai: Forget the five per cent commission. A real estate agent has now been offered a 2008 Cadillac Escalade with just 11,000km on the clock as an incentive to sell an apartment on the Palm Jumeirah. Though all agents demand from clients these days is a well thought-out, competitive price, a few sellers are offering incentives to get their property in the forefront of agents' minds.
> 
> "Some sellers and landlords are now beginning to offer incentives to agents in the form of gifts like a car or paying extra commission, etc. For instance, we have a fully furnished three-bedroom apartment on the Palm Jumeirah, with a garden and partial sea view. The selling price is Dh1,850,000 and the agent gets a Cadillac upon clinching the sale," says Mario Volpi, sales manager, PowerHouse Properties.
> 
> However, even with such offers, properties can be sold or let only if they are well-priced. "These incentives definitely focus the agent's mind to achieve a sale. But, these properties are not necessarily being sold or let for more than the market rate," Mario cautions. Only competitively priced units are moving fast in the market. "It is not wise to offer agents incentives to get higher prices in a buyers' market for the simple reason that there is so much similar stock out in the market. If your property is priced too high, it simply will not attract any serious attention, no matter how much you have promised your agent. Forget about the incentives, lower your price and get rid of the property. You may not make as much as you had hoped for but you will stop the haemorrhaging. The agent will be happy with a sale... period," believes Tom Bunker, investment sales consultant, Better Homes.


http://gulfnews.com/business/property/buy-a-palm-jumeirah-home-get-a-cadillac-1.765357


----------



## Hopeful

Pleth said:


> I hope the deceiving, cheating developers in Dubai will get the same treatment as this guy:
> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/business-tycoon-al-boom-faces-923-years-in-jail-1.768805
> 923 years in jail!


Maybe he should change his name from "Al Boom" to "Al Bust"!!


----------



## maeag

Long time ago, I don't know which page of the forum, we started to ask owner who are interested to form a group for this project.
I am the one who launched that but unfortunately left dubai now.
If someone is doing it, please count me in.


----------



## Imanoan

Sorry for the delay in response. I have no experience with committees but there are power in numbers. We would all want the project to finish. The key here is communication both way with updates all the time. I would suggest that we setup the committee. Does anyone form Rufi need to be a member of this? This is one of the impressions that I got from reading previous emails.

I would prefer that we do this in order (please make suggestions/corrections) 
1- Setup Committee (Compile First name and emails so that we have an email list)
2- Elect at least Three people in Dubai to act as representatives for the committee
3- Finalize a list of demands the committee that rufi needs to followup with
4- Committee meets up with Rufi with Demands.
5- Committee to meet Monthly with Rufi for updates (besides email update from Rufi)


Again we just want them to be open and send periodic updates. They need to be transparent. We need a 2 people - Committee Head and Deputy Head. 
Any Volunteers?


----------



## Optymyst

Imanoan said:


> Sorry for the delay in response. I have no experience with committees but there are power in numbers. We would all want the project to finish. The key here is communication both way with updates all the time. I would suggest that we setup the committee. Does anyone form Rufi need to be a member of this? This is one of the impressions that I got from reading previous emails.
> 
> I would prefer that we do this in order (please make suggestions/corrections)
> 1- Setup Committee (Compile First name and emails so that we have an email list)
> 2- Elect at least Three people in Dubai to act as representatives for the committee
> 3- Finalize a list of demands the committee that rufi needs to followup with
> 4- Committee meets up with Rufi with Demands.
> 5- Committee to meet Monthly with Rufi for updates (besides email update from Rufi)
> 
> 
> Again we just want them to be open and send periodic updates. They need to be transparent. We need a 2 people - Committee Head and Deputy Head.
> Any Volunteers?


The Committee Chairman and Deputy Chairman need to be in Dubai. l'm not in Dubai but l am prepared to work with the committee and help in any way l can. l have had experience of heading committees and serving on a Board of Directors. My email address is [email protected]. The committee could be called Rufi Twin Towers Investors' Committee. 

l think it is important to try to get Rufi to see us as essential contributors to the project and as such involve us more. Changing their current way of (non)communication will be a good start and your list is a sensible basis from which to begin. So..... who's going to volunteer to be Chairman and Deputy Chairman with the aim of working with, say 3 or 4 others to put together an Agenda for an initial meeting with Rufi? 

The committee will have to persuade some of the Rufi family to attend the meeting. Producing an Agenda, arranging the meeting and compiling an email for as many investors as possible to send to Rufi on the day of the meeting, might be a way to move forward.


----------



## dubaifooled

Guys,
I praise you for the involvement and initiative. 
I believe we all have been in contact with Rufi offices and at some point have visited them to get exactly the same tales.
I'm not in Dubai and not spending much time there when I stop by, so wouldn`t be able to assist much, but I'm certainly sending Optymyst and Imanoan PMs with my details.
Together we sure stand a better chance to get clear answers and results.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The recent surge in home sales in Dubai has not been affected by the recent political unrest in the Middle East, say property agents.

The number of transactions has been steadily increasing in the emirate over the past few months, they say.

"We're busy," said Jackie Johns, a managing partner of Dubai Luxury Homes.

Sales are "easily 100 per cent" better than the same time last year, Ms Johns said, adding that last year was an especially poor period for selling property.

Ms Johns said recent clients included Egyptians looking for second homes. "They haven't conducted transactions yet, but they're looking quite seriously," she said.

Other agents have not encountered an influx of buyers from the region.

But they tell similar stories about sales.

While the number of transactions has not rebounded to the heights achieved before the global downturn, sales activity is reaching levels that haven't been reached in months, agents say.

"We have had the best month for a long time," said Tomas Ghassemi, the director of The Property Store. His recent clients include investors from Russian and India.

"There are more buyers in the market," Mr Ghassemi said. "I don't think there has been as much buying for the last two years."

http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/dubai-property-sales-improve


----------



## Morrismarina

Dubai_Steve said:


> The recent surge in home sales in Dubai has not been affected by the recent political unrest in the Middle East, say property agents.


Well of course they'd say that wouldn't they. The "unrest" only started 4 weeks ago !! hno:


----------



## Imanoan

Thanks guys for your response and coordination. I am in Dubai. May I suggest that we compile a list of investors so that we can move forward. I will volunteer to run the email list
and would work with the chairman and deputy chairman on this. We need set the agenda.

1- I can work the email list. I will look at this thread and connect with investors. Please send me messages on this site to be added to the list. will send an email soon.

2- I suggest that Optymyst & Dubaifooled lead with the agenda because of their experience.

3- We also need a strong Chairman and Deputy Chairman - Any Volunteers from Dubai? References. Do we have any local (Emirati) Investors? 
Does anyone have any contacts at Rera who could advise us of our rights. Any lawyers?

Last thing is that I found an article on Construction Week (last year July date publication) with coverage on Rufi and slowdown. Look at Page 33.

http://issuu.com/itpbusiness/docs/cw_26_03072010_328#download


Moving Forward is the key. We just want monthly updates and pictures and a firm date for completion.


----------



## Optymyst

The response to Imanoan's proposition has been promising so far. 

Regarding the article he found..... it was posted on this forum on 5th July (on Page 20) by Parisian Girl..... l notice that there is mention of Rufi's plan to wait for market conditions to improve before they reactivate the building works. Perhaps we should find some evidence that market conditions have improved...... any contributions on that topic? anyone? 

Meantime l will give some thought to the Agenda and wait to hear from you.


----------



## gerald.d

^^ Two words:

Bull trap.


----------



## True Blue

There has been a steady, if not strengthening, interest in property sales. I basing this on the fact that I had a BH consultant evaluate my 1 bed for rental and he phoned me back a few days later to ask me if I would consider selling. I laughed and said "get me 1.2M and I'll sell". He replied that he had a serious buyer but the price would be 850-900k. As this was not much more than what I paid, I said no and left it at that.

The point being that there is still some form of a market out there for investors. Suppose I sold at 900k and the buyer gets it rented at 75-80k, then that is a good guaranteed return that no bank account could match.


----------



## Philippa C

We've been getting a lot of calls re selling our marina residence apartment. Offers were as low as 1.4m a few months ago but now we are getting offers of 1.8mil.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

gerald.d said:


> ^^ Two words:
> 
> Bull trap.












didn't we have the bull trap a long time ago :dunno:


----------



## gerald.d

Dubai_Steve said:


> didn't we have the bull trap a long time ago :dunno:


I'm not aware of any increase in property values since the crash before now. Are you?


----------



## True Blue

I would like to think we are in the despair phase. 

Stealth phase was 2004-05. Awareness phase was 2006-07, Mania phase was 2008.

Fear and capitulation were not the governing factors of the blow off phase. This phase has been driven by too many people buying off plans with a view of flipping for a quick profit without the financial capability to see the build through. We also had the dream chasers who got bumped by their banks not providing the mortgages on their second or holiday homes. Then we had the massive amount of speculative developers who took in a barrel load of cash for doing nothing, and weakening market sentiment through lack of trust. All contributing to an extended blow off phase and pronounced period of despair.

I bought at a very good price 6 years ago (750AED/ft) and I'm now seeing the real market price today of only 850-900AED/ft. Given that mortgage rates of 7% remain above the mean growth rate of 3%, we must be lying somewhere below the mean line on the chart and that means despair!

I don't expect the market will see major recovery until after 2012 and supply starts to dry up. Then hopefully we will get back on track and catch up on the mean growth, traditionaly nearer 7% in the UK. 

The good thing for the marina district is that it continues to receive attention on the transport infrastructure and facilities, just get some of the landscaping completed in the other zones away from the Emaar projects and bingo. The realisation of the public beachparks would be the icing on the cake.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Another (media attention->enthusiasm->greed->delusion) bubble is inevitable in my opinion several years after supply dries up but on a longer time line than before. It could be the last bubble the world sees though as we enter new paradigm shifts of technology after that.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

gerald.d said:


> I'm not aware of any increase in property values since the crash before now. Are you?


Nov 2009


iced said:


> Its a bull trap until the QE stops and then prices will stop being inflated.
> 
> In dubai prices are beginning to stabilise. It is pretty hard to get solid data about selling prices as opposed to asking prices. Money supply is still contracting although it is not dramatic and banks are not lending overall. If the dubai govt continues to pumps money building the infrastructure then that should help to stablise the effects of new supply coming on. Net effect over the next few months will be either a small rise or a small fall as in 10% moves. I expect it to continue to fall as rents are coming down as well.
> 
> Better to watch than participate until the smoke clears


Nov 2009


I think some people invested too early during the big crash in 2009/2010 thinking the bottom was reached. Don't think we have quite reached the bottom of despair yet though, lots of distressed property still to come on the market.


----------



## Philippa C

I think some of the supply that is coming on line will never be occupied or if so, only partially;I'm thinking of some of the huge towers along Emirates Rd near the IMPZ, towers in DSO and roundabouts. There are just too many of them and they are not well serviced. I don't think they'll affect the price units in the Marina, Palm etc.

I'm not sure when we'll hit the bottom but I think it'll come and go quickly and will only be recognised as such afterwards!


----------



## gerald.d

Dubai_Steve said:


> Nov 2009
> 
> Nov 2009
> 
> 
> I think some people invested too early during the big crash in 2009/2010 thinking the bottom was reached. Don't think we have quite reached the bottom of despair yet though, lots of distressed property still to come on the market.


I repeat what I said - I'm not aware of any increase in property values since the crash.


----------



## Morrismarina

I agree, how can the bottom have been reached yet when there's all this extra supply to come on stream. The laws of supply and demand cannot be breached. The despair phase is yet to come.


----------



## True Blue

^^The despair phase is defined in the illustration as the period where the actual values fall below the mean growth line. In making your statement that "The despair phase is yet to come" what value are you attributing to the rate of mean growth?


----------



## Morrismarina

True Blue said:


> ^^The despair phase is defined in the illustration as the period where the actual values fall below the mean growth line. In making your statement that "The despair phase is yet to come" what value are you attributing to the rate of mean growth?


10.3 %


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Agree the smaller drop (despair phase) is likely yet to come or at least continue but surely the fear phase has been and gone. The graph mimics the huge drop in prices already seen.


----------



## True Blue

Morrismarina said:


> 10.3 %


So if we take 2005 as a base year where prices were sensible, mean growth in 2011 should be 1.103^6=80% higher than 2005:nuts:

That being your assumption we are well into the despair phase as current prices are well below 180% of the prices in 2005.

Or you don't know what you are talking about and I'm wasting my time trying to promote financial education to a mortgage lender:wallbash: "The computer says NO!:lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What is your estimate of the mean growth value since 2005?


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

TB, how did it work out with the landlord registration with RERA ? Is it it worth pursuing ?

I am asking as I am about to pick up a new tenant on a property in Dubai but I understand that unless the lease contract is registered with RERA I am subject to a fine from RERA of up to AED50000. Additionally, I also gather that I would have no legal standing with Dubai courts should I face issues with my tenant and having to drag him to court later for e.g. bounced checks. 

I am therefore considering using a licensed realtor/agent and ensuring that the agent then registers the lease with RERA. I suppose the cost of the lease contract registration would fall on me. Any input/suggestions welcomed.

I also echo Philippa C's comment, I have higher offers for my flat on Palm Jumeirah since listing it back in October 2010.


----------



## Philippa C

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> I also echo Philippa C's comment, I have higher offers for my flat on Palm Jumeirah since listing it back in October 2010.


I think we need to start talking about different market segments in Dubai. You can't generalise and compare established areas like the Palm & Ranches with still incomplete properties say in DSO and so all the graphs, predictions etc can, imo, should not be applied to the Dubai market as a whole but rather to different areas. There are areas in the Ranches & Meadows which are still selling at 100% premium which is totally out of kilter with the rest of the market.


----------



## Imre

234sale said:


> One of the Guys has just sold to Chinese client 1050AED sqft, 30% deposit paid. Even I was amazed.


It seems buyers are here again


----------



## Dubai_Steve

More residential units being delivered in Abu Dhabi will only marginally affect houses in new Dubai communities, such as the Marina and Emirates Living

These will compete against each for rents, according to industry experts.

“The impact of new properties coming on to the market in Abu Dhabi on Dubai in 2011 is expected to be minimal. The reason for that is that while approximately 21,000 units are due for delivery in 2011 in Abu Dhabi, there are likely to be delays in handover, as witnessed in 2010, and maybe only half that figure will be delivered eventually. We do expect though that there will be an impact on the Marina, in part due to Abu Dhabi and also because there are 12,000 units yet to be delivered where buildings are currently under construction.

“People living there may prefer to move to Abu Dhabi and/or other projects such as JLT which will be less congested. Thus, we expect to see rents possibly falling in Marina at a later date say in 2012 /13,” Charles Neil, CEO of Landmark Properties told Emirates 24|7.

Experts at Better Homes also expect a marginal impact. “While this will allow for more breathing space within the Abu Dhabi property market, I don’t believe it will affect Dubai property prices, nor would it drive people working in Abu Dhabi/living in Dubai to move back. However, properties in the Marina and Emirates Living Communities may find themselves competing for rental rates – it’s too soon to tell,” said Rajkumar Vaswani, Residential Leasing Consultant, Barsha Office of Better Homes.

The main reason behind this is the lack of good residential units in Abu Dhabi and the high demand that the city is facing. The market has appetite to absorb these units. “Demand for the new units will be quite high from Abu Dhabi residents as well, as the standard of accommodation in Abu Dhabi, particularly on island is quite poor, the buildings have little in the way of amenities and parking is a major problem. Thus, demand from Abu Dhabi residents willing to pay higher rents than their Dubai counterparts will probably absorb the larger part of these new units and certainly in 2011 the impact on Dubai will be limited and the impact will only be gradually felt from 2012 onwards,” explained the Landmark Properties expert.

Moreover, the attractive rents in new Dubai and the good lifestyle will remain lucrative factors for tenants and they may not consider moving out.

“I anticipate Abu Dhabi prices to remain higher than those in Dubai for the time being, and do not expect to see bargains like a studio for Dh28,000 available in the Abu Dhabi property market in the immediate future.

“The majority of tenants, who work in Abu Dhabi still choosing to live in Dubai, do so because of the mature communities within which they escape from their stressful work and commute environments.

“As for the Abu Dhabi/Dubai/Abu Dhabi commute, if the pay-off is a superior quality apartment at a cheaper price, then most will choose to commute. Although, there has been an undersupply of property in Abu Dhabi, we expect to see far greater choice throughout the capital’s property market this year.

“More stock will drive prices to be more competitive for tenants; however, this is unlikely to compete with Dubai’s property prices for some time. In addition, those who still choose to live in Dubai and commute to Abu Dhabi to work are opting for the ‘lifestyle’ offered within their respective communities. However, for the roughly 20 per cent who choose to move back to the capital, rental rates will still not be able to compete with those available in the mature communities of Discovery Gardens and JLT where you can find a one-bedroom apt for Dh35,000–50,000 per annum,” explained Vaswani,.

Commenting on the reversal trend, Neil added: “Even when all the planned units are eventually delivered, we don't expect a major reversal of people moving away from Dubai back to Abu Dhabi as with the rapid growth of the Abu Dhabi economy there is unlikely to be an oversupply of quality accommodation, and equilibrium will only be reached in about 2014 because there are also other factors to be taken in to account such as better quality of schooling in Dubai, and often one of the spouses will have a job in Dubai.”

http://www.emirates247.com/property/rents-in-new-dubai-to-offer-best-deals-2011-03-06-1.364450


----------



## Dubai_Steve

> This is a chart that I put up in July 2009 which was when I think I finally figured out how bubbles work. I’ve updated it to my estimate of where prices are now (the Orange dot).


http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article26746.html


----------



## 234sale

Imre said:


> It seems buyers are here again


I wouldn't pay that,, but if leasing at 50,000AED and buying for 1,000,000 maybe after FM fee and Chiller Fee you can get 3.4%, which still beats the bank at 2%,,

This means sales up 100% (2 sold so far this year,, as last year only one was sold.)

FYI, guy just paid the full amount as cash...

He want's to live in it...


----------



## Cyrus55

A real estate manager told me that the prices in areas like the Views (Emirates living) have increased with 8-10% since January 2011. 
It looks that the market is picking up?


----------



## gerald.d

Dubai_Steve said:


> http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article26746.html


Not sure what the guy is trying to say there.

Look at where we are now on the timeline, and then look backwards.

Prices have not followed the dotted black line.

I'd be interested to see someone connect the blue line up with the orange dot, because prices most certainly have not remained constant for the last 18-24 months, and if you believe prices have gone up by the order or 30% in the last 12 months, well I've got a tanker load of snake oil here that you'd love to purchase from me.

/edit

Worth pointing out that I reckon rents in relatively prime areas are probably in the region of 30-40% _lower_ right now than they were back in June '09.

(June '09 on the graph roughly equates to the same level as his actual valuation now)


----------



## samosasam

Hi guys,

I will be going to Dubai next week and intend to meet with Rufi. I have the number for one of the Rufi brothers and will try to meet with him as well. If anyone plans to be in Dubai next week and wants to join me in going to Rufi let me know. I will send along my email address to Imanoan.


----------



## TerryPop

gerald.d said:


> Not sure what the guy is trying to say there.
> 
> Look at where we are now on the timeline, and then look backwards.
> 
> Prices have not followed the dotted black line.
> 
> I'd be interested to see someone connect the blue line up with the orange dot, because prices most certainly have not remained constant for the last 18-24 months, and if you believe prices have gone up by the order or 30% in the last 12 months, well I've got a tanker load of snake oil here that you'd love to purchase from me.
> 
> /edit
> 
> Worth pointing out that I reckon rents in relatively prime areas are probably in the region of 30-40% _lower_ right now than they were back in June '09.
> 
> (June '09 on the graph roughly equates to the same level as his actual valuation now)


We have left a whole load of nakheel units on the market for sale- no real intention of selling but the agents have them on their books.


The offers coming in for them are spot on with that graph and the dotted line.

Offers on Marina Residence Pmj were as low as 1.2-1.3 for a 2bed about 6-12 months ago.

Now as Philippa C has mentioned she has had an offer of 2 mill for her 2 bed there.

I know its not a great spread of dubai prop but things are turning.


----------



## gerald.d

TerryPop said:


> We have left a whole load of nakheel units on the market for sale- no real intention of selling but the agents have them on their books.
> 
> 
> The offers coming in for them are spot on with that graph and the dotted line.
> 
> Offers on Marina Residence Pmj were as low as 1.2-1.3 for a 2bed about 6-12 months ago.
> 
> Now as Philippa C has mentioned she has had an offer of 2 mill for her 2 bed there.
> 
> I know its not a great spread of dubai prop but things are turning.


Oh please. No disrespect, but this is getting ridiculous.

Let's average out that 1.2-1.3 at 1.25.

So you are seriously trying to tell me that there has been an 60% increase in prices in "6-12 months"?

Pull the other one.

(Basing anything on "offers" is meaningless. What if I'd offered her 300K for her property last year. What if that was "as low" as the offers were? Would you be claiming prices had increased by a factor of 7?

Transactions are the only things that count. Everything else is bullshit.)


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai will be able to meet all debt obligations due in 2011, including a $4 billion loan owed by its investment fund, a member of the Gulf Arab emirate's top fiscal body said on Tuesday.

Ahmed Humaid al-Tayer, part of the Supreme Fiscal Committee which was tasked with steering Dubai through a crippling debt crisis, also said the emirate's economic outlook was "looking good" in 2011.

Dubai has about $30 billion of debt maturing over the next two years, with $12 billion of that due this year. The largest is the $4 billion loan to Investment Corporation of Dubai which falls due in November.

When asked whether Dubai would meet debt obligations coming due in 2011, Tayer said: "Do you have any doubt?"

The emirate was bailed out by wealthy neighbour Abu Dhabi in 2009 with a last-minute $10 billion lifeline helping its Dubai World property unit Nakheel narrowly avoid default on Islamic bonds.

Tayer is also governor of the Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/08/dubai-debt-tayer-idUSLDE72706Z20110308


----------



## Dubai_Steve

jeetha said:


> *Population Clock*
> 
> 1,815,299 10/05/10
> 1,815,658 11/05/10
> 1,817,849 17/05/10
> 1,820,450 25/05/10
> 1,822,989 01/06/10
> 1,827,435 14/06/10
> 1,828,055 16/06/10
> 1,829,482 20/06/10
> 1,833,927 03/07/10
> 1,842,321 16/07/10
> 1,846,955 29/07/10
> 1,859,870 02/09/10
> 1,876,994 18/10/10
> 1,907,024 08/01/11
> 1,910,437 17/01/11
> 1,925,808 28/02/11
> 1,928,447 07/03/11
> 
> _Individuals_


Thanks for the info. Where do you get these figures from Jeetha?


----------



## Richard Head

Dubai_Steve said:


> Thanks for the info. Where do you get these figures from Jeetha?


Let me Google that for you. Click here.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dubai+population+clock&l=1

You're most welcome. :lol: :cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

:lol: thanks - 1,928,858 currently


----------



## 234sale

Dubai_Steve said:


> :lol: thanks - 1,928,858 currently


can also be found here


http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/



Please watch






Also if you look at the debt clock,, you'll find debt per person is increasing faster..

The system is flawed.....

:cheers:


----------



## TerryPop

gerald.d said:


> Oh please. No disrespect, but this is getting ridiculous.
> 
> Let's average out that 1.2-1.3 at 1.25.
> 
> So you are seriously trying to tell me that there has been an 60% increase in prices in "6-12 months"?
> 
> Pull the other one.
> 
> (Basing anything on "offers" is meaningless. What if I'd offered her 300K for her property last year. What if that was "as low" as the offers were? Would you be claiming prices had increased by a factor of 7?
> 
> Transactions are the only things that count. Everything else is bullshit.)


In this case- yes I guess I could get proof that a 2 bed in MR on the palm sold for 1.3 mill- then we would somehow need to force Phillippa C to sell at her offer of 2 mill to prove it 

Having said that this relates to Nakheel property which has a lot of upside potential- not least because yields have improved on reduced service fees...

Perhaps not reflective enough of entire market- I'll give you that.


----------



## bister

Axe2grind

You are spot on. Most of the Number 49 info is from National Newspaper, lending paper to Sunlands desperate attempt to shift blame on investors. The let down by Dubai Properties is also immense. 

I just wonder what Face81 has to say about this?


----------



## bister

Arabian Business is calling the bluff - Versace is going on hold. No money. Investors should rally up and demand refunds.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/fundi...le-385560.html


----------



## True Blue

Bank surveyors were in Dorrabay, The Jewels and Le Residencia del Mar today. These developments are already approved by Tamweel/Amlak but this was a different bank that had placed the surveyors with a view to increasing the projects in Dubai in which they would provide mortgage lending. Ease of finance will ultimately improve the values of Cayan developments.


----------



## ryeman

Dubai_Steve said:


> :lol: thanks - 1,928,858 currently


Unpossible! Everyone left Dubai in 2008, remember all the anecdotal evidence, thousands of abandoned cars at the airport everyday. :lol:

I walked my dog in Garhoud and walked past the airport every night and never saw these cars, I guess the elves moved them away before sunset. On the other extreme of idiocy I remember that stupid statistic that 25 percent of the worlds cranes were in Dubai.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Are you suggesting that the government are making up these population clock figures? (now 1,929,242)


----------



## 234sale

I just asked for a 10K pay rise,, lol


----------



## jeetha

^^What's that got to do :lol: with what Steve is saying.


----------



## Imanoan

Hi Guys,

I called several different people in Rufi last week. They were quiet sure construction will start in about a week or so. They all answered along the same lines. This might be positive. I would still say that we stick to part of the plan which is to setup the Rufi Twin Towers Investors Committee and send an email letter mentioning this committee and that we look forward to them resuming the project and most importantly sticking to a completion date. We should send a letter every two months. 

Anyone else get other feedback?


----------



## gerald.d

The only true barometer of Dubai's economy is of course how happy the taxi drivers are. 

They are doing better now than they have for the last 24 months at least. 

Biggest buy signal you'll ever get.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Overseas property investors are looking back at Dubai according to industry experts. Enquires for property in Dubai increased last year following reported price growth in some of the emirates more exclusive residential areas such as Dubai Marina and The Palm. However since the beginning of 2011, there has been significant interest in Dubai property with an increasing number of investors entering the market.

One local estate agent said “From the end of last year onwards, we have seen a definite increase in interest from overseas clients. Such investors are mainly from countries within the GCC or Eastern Europe, indicating a growing sentiment that Dubai’s property market is now offering investors greater value for money”.

The Foreign Investment Office of Dubai Economic Department has come to similar conclusions after conducting a recent survey. The comprehensive report highlighted that 80% of all investors asked are planning to not only maintain their current investments but increase their interests in Dubai in the near future.

Saeed Hashmi, Head of Valuation and Advisory at Landmark Advisory, said: “Although the market is still relatively immature in terms of large institutional overseas investors, Dubai now seems to be back on the agenda for many parties.”

“In comparison to mature western markets, investment property in Dubai attracts much higher equivalent yields, i.e. a nine per cent plus for prime property, albeit under differing terms, suggesting that the significant yield margin and long term growth prospect in certain sectors is re-attracting healthy investment appeal.”

Select Property, the largest seller of UAE property in Europe has also experienced a considerable increase in enquiries for Dubai property. So far in 2011 Select Property have received an incredible 157% increase in Dubai property enquiries compared with the same period last year. More importantly, interest is accelerating every month with January gaining 88% more enquiries than December, February receiving 153% more enquiries than in January and March starting very strongly.

Read more: http://www.selectproperty.com/dubai...ubai-property-accelerates-2011/#ixzz1G8NNF6sd 
Select Property Overseas Property


----------



## 234sale

^^ Select Property,, lol


----------



## OmarFromFrance

Imanoan said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I called several different people in Rufi last week. They were quiet sure construction will start in about a week or so. They all answered along the same lines. This might be positive. I would still say that we stick to part of the plan which is to setup the Rufi Twin Towers Investors Committee and send an email letter mentioning this committee and that we look forward to them resuming the project and most importantly sticking to a completion date. We should send a letter every two months.
> 
> Anyone else get other feedback?


Rufi told me the same "story" a month ago, two months ago and three months ago. Personally I don't trust them anymore. I do understand there is a crisis but they could at least give reliable updates. Nevertheless I fully support your approach. I don't speak English fluently so I can't write a nice and diplomatic letter. However I could help the committee attend meetings with Rufi since I live in Dubai. My personal email address: [email protected]

Regards,
Omar


----------



## ryeman

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Are you suggesting that the government are making up these population clock figures? (now 1,929,242)


I just like to laugh at the doomsayers who predicted the end of Dubai.

The population clock figures seem reasonable. Since I have lived in Dubai, very few buildings have been demolished and the number of completed buildings has tripled. Yes not all the buildings are full and the property prices dropped dramitically, but the city is still growing very fast, and with no new construction, any empty buildings will fill up in a few years.

With ten percent of the worlds oil a couple of hundred kilometers away, the residual effect brings investment and prosperity and will keep Dubai growing. The limiting factor will be how much water and electricity the municipality can produce.


----------



## jeetha

ryeman said:


> I just like to laugh at the doomsayers who predicted the end of Dubai.
> 
> The population clock figures seem reasonable. Since I have lived in Dubai, very few buildings have been demolished and the number of completed buildings has tripled. Yes not all the buildings are full and the property prices dropped dramitically, but the city is still growing very fast, and with no new construction, any empty buildings will fill up in a few years.
> 
> With ten percent of the worlds oil a couple of hundred kilometers away, the residual effect brings investment and prosperity and will keep Dubai growing. The limiting factor will be how much water and electricity the municipality can produce.


Mostly all lazy estate agents post doom news here. (minus Imre)

They want to sell properties & take commissions but do not want to take their a*** of their office 
chair to take pictures or do any work on it. 

They rather post here and wait for nervous investor’s call them.


----------



## jeetha

Dubai_Steve said:


> :lol: thanks - 1,928,858 currently


1,929,508 now:banana:

That 650 more then yesterday.


----------



## noir-dresses

I have a question, and maybe some one can give me some insight on this.

What if you bought a property through Gowealthy.com, and the developer never has never finished the project. Am I able to hold Gowealthy.com resposible for that ?

Gowealthy set up the whole deal, took the down payment, and even took care of the contract. They were the ones who promised me every thing, and the developer never honoured the deal.


----------



## Morrismarina

noir-dresses said:


> I have a question, and maybe some one can give me some insight on this.
> 
> What if you bought a property through Gowealthy.com, and the developer never has never finished the project. Am I able to hold Gowealthy.com resposible for that ?
> 
> Gowealthy set up the whole deal, took the down payment, and even took care of the contract. They were the ones who promised me every thing, and the developer never honoured the deal.


If your contract is with the developer then Gowelathy would only be the selling agent and not responsible.


----------



## Richard Head

jeetha said:


> 1,929,508 now:banana:
> 
> That 650 more then yesterday.


I doubt it's linked to anything factual such as issuing / cancelling of visas, the clock probably ticks over at a fixed rate based on whatever parameters they have put into it. But I guess they would have to reset it periodically based on factual data. The only way to know if wht i'm saying is right would be to check it at regular fixed intervals over a couple of months and see if the growth rate is linear. Wish I could be arsed to do that :nuts:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

If the population is really increasing at over 650 per day then the few thousand marina apartments coming on the market would not be much of a problem, Somehow I don't believe these figures, where are they going to live, there is not enough supply?


----------



## sidxb

*Dubai office occupancy set to go up*



> Enquiries for leasing office space in Dubai were up 20 per cent in the first two months of 2011 as multinational companies look to shifting their Mena headquarters to the emirate due to unrest in Egypt and Tunisia, according to the latest figures released from UAE-based property management company Asteco.
> 
> According to Bloomberg and other agencies, leading international brand names including Coca-Cola, Cisco Systems, GlaxoSmithKline and Volkswagen are among those to close their offices in Cairo, at least until domestic security and trading conditions improve. The pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline alone employed some 900 people in Egypt.
> 
> Danish shipping giant AP Moller-Maersk, maybe considering relocating its Middle East headquarters. The world's biggest container shipping company, which employed more than 7,000 people in Egypt, has closed its offices in the country. In maintaining an on-the-ground presence, it is likely Dubai will be high on its list of potential new regional headquarters.


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai_Steve said:


> If the population is really increasing at over 650 per day then the few thousand marina apartments coming on the market would not be much of a problem, Somehow I don't believe these figures, where are they going to live, there is not enough supply?


Don't believe to much what they say, especially when you know the media/statistics is every thing but free.


----------



## Imre

jeetha said:


> Mostly all lazy estate agents post doom news here. (minus Imre)
> 
> They want to sell properties & take commissions but do not want to take their a*** of their office
> chair to take pictures or do any work on it.
> 
> They rather post here and wait for nervous investor’s call them.


Thanks Jeetha :cheers:

Maybe good news for you, thanks for one of our forumers , I will visit his apartment of Silverene soon for taking interior photos


----------



## Imre

*Dubai has recovered from economic downturn - ruler *










By Reuters 

DUBAI (Reuters) - Dubai has recovered from the economic downturn, its ruler Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum said.

Sheikh Mohammed, whose remarks were posted on his official website on Wednesday, also said that while many government agencies performed well during the financial crisis, others failed to meet expectations.

"We are not in the process of holding departments accountable, what's done is done," said Sheikh Mohammed in a statement on his website.

Dubai is struggling to emerge from a crippling debt crisis which erupted openly in 2009 after its flagship conglomerate Dubai World said it would seek a $26 billion debt standstill.

More info:

http://en.news.maktoob.com/20090000622812/Dubaihasrecoveredfromeconomicdownturn_-_ruler/Article.htm


----------



## noir-dresses

Just got this email from Star Giga stating they are giving me 30 more days to pay what they are asking for, or else. Most investors halted payments because the developer halted work on the project in 2008. Every body, and their mother knows that Star Giga are not doing any thing at Emirates City, but they claim they are, using black male. They are not even providing pictures with construction up dates. I have the money to pay them, but I refuse to untill they prove with out a doubt they are honest. The worst thing is the Ajman government is letting them do this legally, which makes me sick.

I would appriciate any help what to do on this one. Do I pay, and hope it will get done one day, cut my loses, get a lawyer. This has come to the principle of the matter. The developer is a crook, and could spend the rest of the money to make his life missrable if it comes to it.

Imre you were in this project before, and idea what to do. You would be the best person to take pics of the sight, and see if there is really any work going on as they say.


Star Giga Establishment Limited 
Star Giga House, Office 10 - 1st Floor, Next to Oasis Centre, Sh. Zayed 
Road, Dubai, United Arab Emirates 
PO Box: 29193 | Phone: +9714-330-7640 | Fax: +9714-330-7641 | Web: 
<http://www.stargiga.ae> www.stargiga.ae | Email: <mailto:[email protected]> 
[email protected] 

Mr. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Email xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
EIN Ref: xxxxxxxxxxx
Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

10 March 2011 

Final Notice of Overdue Amount: 
Unit xxxxxx in Tower 'x' of Goldcrest Dreams - Emirates City, Ajman 

Reference is made to our previous correspondences notifying you regarding 
outstanding amount towards the purchase of the property mentioned above. 

We have noted that your account is in default and you have not made any 
payments in the recent past. You have till date paid only 36.4% of the unit 
purchase price. As you are well aware, the non-payment/delay in payment by 
the Unit Purchasers will abate the progress of any off-plan real estate 
projects. Our project is also behind schedule due to the non-payment/delay 
in payment by the Unit Purchasers and oppressive market conditions. 
Nevertheless, we have completed above 30% of the total project and the work 
is progressing in the site. The certificate of the project consultant is 
available on our support desk: 
<http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13192> 
http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13192. 

We are now constrained to issue this Final Notice of Overdue Amount since 
you have defaulted in making payments even after our previous 
demands/notices for payment. 

You are hereby requested to make payment of the overdue amount of AED 
35,815.00 within 30 days hereof, failing which we shall initiate proceedings 
to terminate the contract as per the ARRA guidelines (you may refer to the 
ARRA guidelines here: <http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13193> 
http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13193) and forfeit all amounts paid 
towards damages. We also reserve our right to claim any further damages as 
per the prevailing laws. 

A summary your account statement as per our records and the details of our 
escrow account details are enclosed herewith. If there is a reason why these 
payments have been withheld we would be obliged if you could contact us in 
order to either explain the reason or come to some form of payment 
arrangement. 

Please disregard this letter in case you have already deposited the due 
payment in the project escrow account. 

Please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Relations staff in case you 
need any further clarification with regards to the above issue. 

We thank you for being our customer and are further grateful for your timely 
payments. 



Sincerely, 

The CRM Team 
Star Giga Establishment Limited 

Star Giga House, Office# 3 - Mezzanine floor 

Next to Oasis Centre, Sh. Zayed Road 

PO Box: 29193, Dubai, United Arab Emirates 

Phone: +971-4-330-7640, Fax: +971-4-330-7641 



Website: <http://www.stargiga.ae/> www.stargiga.ae | Email: 
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] | Support: 
<http://crm.stargiga.ae> crm.stargiga.ae 



Note: we recommend that you use our support desk for your queries and 
communications. 



====== 

Account Summary 


Unit Number:xxxxxxxxxxx 
Sale Account Ref: xxxxxxxxxx: 



Sale Value: 
308,382.00 

Parking Value: 
.00 

Total Value: 
308,382.00 

Receivable (48.0%): 
148,023.00 

Parking Receivable: 
.00 

Receivable: 
148,023.00 

Received: 
112,207.96 

Current Due: 
35,815.00 

Note: all amounts in AED 

====== 

====== 
Escrow Account Details for your Unit xxxxxxxxxxx 

Account Name: 
Escrow Goldcrest Dreams x Star Giga Establishment Limited 

Escrow Account Number: 
01-1008405-012 

Bank: 
Ajman Bank 
Bank Address: 
Ajman Bank PJSC 
Khalifa Branch 
PO Box No.: 7770 
Ajman, United Arab Emirates 
Telephone: +971-6-7479999 

Swift Code: 
AJMNAEAJ 

We wish to remind you that you must provide the name of the unit owner and 
unit number whilst making payments for it to be traced correctly (please 
refer to the instructions here for details: 
<http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13021> 
http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13021 
======


----------



## Josau

noir-dresses, you have to prove to them, that they are lying. In their mail, they claim work is progressing, which is simply not true. Get someone in Dubai to go over there and take photos, this is the only way I see. This situation makes me sick, I haven't received anything yet concerning my GCD 2 unit, but I am sure, they will send these threats out soon, too. Also, contact ARRA and ask for advice. As per ARRA website the project is on hold.








This also shows, that a revised construction schedule has NOT been approved by ARRA.


----------



## glover

noir-dresses, i pass by emirates city at least once a week. some work is going on in some of the buildings! 3-4 towers on the second raw have topped out. 

where is your tower exactly!


----------



## Pleth

Dubai_Steve said:


> If the population is really increasing at over 650 per day then the few thousand marina apartments coming on the market would not be much of a problem, Somehow I don't believe these figures, where are they going to live, there is not enough supply?


The goverment do physical checks. The actually knock on every apartment door in Dubai and ask how many people are living there.
Don't worry they don't ask any other questions :lol:
At my door it was an Indian guy with a small computer and ID.

Today the new Metro Station Jebel Ali is opening. Hurrah Dubai.


----------



## Pleth

Imre said:


> *Dubai has recovered from economic downturn - ruler *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Reuters
> 
> DUBAI (Reuters) - Dubai has recovered from the economic downturn, its ruler Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum said.
> 
> Sheikh Mohammed, whose remarks were posted on his official website on Wednesday, also said that while many government agencies performed well during the financial crisis, others failed to meet expectations.
> 
> "We are not in the process of holding departments accountable, what's done is done," said Sheikh Mohammed in a statement on his website.
> 
> Dubai is struggling to emerge from a crippling debt crisis which erupted openly in 2009 after its flagship conglomerate Dubai World said it would seek a $26 billion debt standstill.
> 
> More info:
> 
> http://en.news.maktoob.com/20090000622812/Dubaihasrecoveredfromeconomicdownturn_-_ruler/Article.htm


:applause: Hats off, no taxes... Well done :applause:
Now they just need to sack the staff at RERA and employ new efficient people!


----------



## noir-dresses

glover said:


> noir-dresses, i pass by emirates city at least once a week. some work is going on in some of the buildings! 3-4 towers on the second raw have topped out.
> 
> where is your tower exactly!


Thanks glover, we know our towers are not topped out. Here is a link to the location, you can click image to in large the map.

I have to come to Dubai.

I even offerd Star Giga to use the money I paid on this to be used as credit notes for use on Goldcrest Views 2 in JLT. First they said yes, then when I found clients to sell them to, then they backed down, and said do you have written proof. 

Then I offered to buy an apartment in GCV2, and still they didn't want to be reason with me.

They give me a head ache, looks like I might have to come down, and settle this.


----------



## Optymyst

*Some ideas for questions to Rufi when you see them next week*

The posting printed twice.


----------



## Optymyst

*Some ideas for questions to Rufi when you see them next week*

Some suggested requests when talking to Rufi:

1. What is the current situation with regard to their International City development? (Is it complete and handed over/about to be handed over/nearing completion etc)
2. How many units in International City still for sale? What chance of finding buyers in the current market?
3. Can Rufi assure the investors in Rufi Twin Towers that all new income generated by IC development will be re-invested in RTT and not spent on 'operational costs'?
4. Will Rufi please give frequent updates by email to all it's RTT investors to a) let us know the economic situation and any impact on Rufi's plans.
b) tell the investors in RTT what Rufi's plans are for moving forward.
5. According to this forum Rufi is telling some people that work is about to re-start....... we strongly urge them to send out by email a 'News Report' to all their investors telling them this. Keeping us all informed would save them from having to deal with constant enquiries from individual investors and also be good for client relationships in general.

Good Luck and here's hoping you can make a difference.


----------



## TerryPop

Nakheel,

After all that has happened... still over promising, under D-------g

Nobody put a gun to Lootah's head to come up with a two week timeframe in his recent promise of a turnaround.

It'll be two months soon - nakheel trust factor = ZERO





TerryPop said:


> "We are about to sign a major contract that we will announce soon. Officially, we have reached 91 per cent overall agreement. I hope to finish all agreements with the creditors *within two weeks*," Ali Rashid Lootah, Nakheel Chairman told newsmen at a media briefing on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> Its been 4 weeks since Lootah made this statement, 4 weeks as of tomorrow.
> 
> Nakheel- leapord and spots.


----------



## Imanoan

*RUFI TWIN TOWERS INVESTORS COMMITTEE (RTTIC)

To Join, please send an email to [email protected]*

RUFI TWIN TOWERS INVESTORS COMMITTEE (RTTIC) was formed by a group of local and international Investors. This committee was formed because of concern with regard to the lack of progress and communication about the Rufi TwinTowers Project by Rufi Real Estate in Dubai.


----------



## noir-dresses

I've been reading my contract, and some things just don't make sense.

The delivery date for hand over of apartment was July 1st, 2009.

The longstop date was January 31st, 2010.

The ultimate longstop date was April 30th, 2010.

The reason/excuse the developer has not delivered/handed over my apartment was due to Force Majeure.

Now when I look at the definititions, and interpretations for Force Majeure in my contract this is what it states word, by word.

-means an act of God including but not limited to fire, flood, earthquake, windstorm or other natural disaster, act of any sovereign including but not limited to war, invasion, act of foreign enemies, hostitlities (whether war be declared or not), civil war, rebellion, revolution, insurrection, military or usurped power or confiscation, nationalization, requisition, destruction or damage to property by or under the order of any government or public or local authourity or imposition of government sanction embargo or similar action; labour dispute including but not limited to strike, lockout or boycott; interruption or failure of utility service including but not limited to electric power, gas, water or telephone service; failure of the transportation of any personnel, equipment, machinery or material required by the Seller for completion of the Project; breach of contract by any essential contractor or subcontractor, change in or any additional requirements imposed by any law or government order from time to time; or any other matter or cause beyond the control of the Seller.

Now when I read the definititions, and interpretations of Force Majeure only the last line can be used, but even that doesn't hold water. 

It is very clear to me the real reason why the developer halted all work on the project was because they were extremely greedy, over extending them selves financially to the point where it effected this project. This was just one of many projects the developer had on his plate, and they have obviously bitten more than they can chew.

They are trying every little dirty trick in the book to take advantage of the investors to fix a problem that is 100 percent their fault.

In my contract it also states the developer will get the buyer a UAE residency visa, which is also false. They lied, and this was also one of the selling points because we all know what Abu Dhabi had to say about this.

In my contract it states that if the Seller does not honour his side of the signed agreement, I have the rite to terminate the contract, and ask for my money back with interest, and damages.

Now they have not handed over the apartment by the ultimate longstop date which was April 30th, 2010, and their Force Majeure excuse for being late does not make any logical sense, I really don't see what the problem is.

Now if RERA, or ARRA are a true, and a ligitimate institution, given an axe to grind, and keep the developers honest, why am I having this head ache rite now ? The real question is are they really, what's to say they are not as honest as we would like to believe, and they are part of the bigger picture " Ponzi Scheme ". This is part of the ulitimate question, is the law credible in the UAE, its that simple, who are they set up to really protect ? My trust of the UAE legal system is on shacky ground, my love for the place is on life support.

Any insight from you guys would really help, still don't know what to do ??????


----------



## Cool banana

*Villa or Apartment*

Any opinions on whether a villa or an apartment is the best long term (10 years) asset in Dubai?

If both are well located, part of likeable communicaty, completed etc...

:banana:


----------



## Cool banana

*Villa or Apartment*

Any opinions on whether a villa or an apartment is the best long term (10 years) asset in Dubai?

If both are well located, part of likeable community, completed etc...

:banana:


----------



## vaksa

noir-dresses said:


> ...Any insight from you guys would really help, still don't know what to do ??????


Have you thought about writing it off as a loss?


----------



## agod

noir-dresses said:


> I've been reading my contract, and some things just don't make sense.
> 
> The delivery date for hand over of apartment was July 1st, 2009.
> 
> The longstop date was January 31st, 2010.
> 
> The ultimate longstop date was April 30th, 2010.
> 
> The reason/excuse the developer has not delivered/handed over my apartment was due to Force Majeure.
> 
> Now when I look at the definititions, and interpretations for Force Majeure in my contract this is what it states word, by word.
> 
> -means an act of God including but not limited to fire, flood, earthquake, windstorm or other natural disaster, act of any sovereign including but not limited to war, invasion, act of foreign enemies, hostitlities (whether war be declared or not), civil war, rebellion, revolution, insurrection, military or usurped power or confiscation, nationalization, requisition, destruction or damage to property by or under the order of any government or public or local authourity or imposition of government sanction embargo or similar action; labour dispute including but not limited to strike, lockout or boycott; interruption or failure of utility service including but not limited to electric power, gas, water or telephone service; failure of the transportation of any personnel, equipment, machinery or material required by the Seller for completion of the Project; breach of contract by any essential contractor or subcontractor, change in or any additional requirements imposed by any law or government order from time to time; or any other matter or cause beyond the control of the Seller.
> 
> Now when I read the definititions, and interpretations of Force Majeure only the last line can be used, but even that doesn't hold water.
> 
> It is very clear to me the real reason why the developer halted all work on the project was because they were extremely greedy, over extending them selves financially to the point where it effected this project. This was just one of many projects the developer had on his plate, and they have obviously bitten more than they can chew.
> 
> They are trying every little dirty trick in the book to take advantage of the investors to fix a problem that is 100 percent their fault.
> 
> In my contract it also states the developer will get the buyer a UAE residency visa, which is also false. They lied, and this was also one of the selling points because we all know what Abu Dhabi had to say about this.
> 
> In my contract it states that if the Seller does not honour his side of the signed agreement, I have the rite to terminate the contract, and ask for my money back with interest, and damages.
> 
> Now they have not handed over the apartment by the ultimate longstop date which was April 30th, 2010, and their Force Majeure excuse for being late does not make any logical sense, I really don't see what the problem is.
> 
> Now if RERA, or ARRA are a true, and a ligitimate institution, given an axe to grind, and keep the developers honest, why am I having this head ache rite now ? The real question is are they really, what's to say they are not as honest as we would like to believe, and they are part of the bigger picture " Ponzi Scheme ". This is part of the ulitimate question, is the law credible in the UAE, its that simple, who are they set up to really protect ? My trust of the UAE legal system is on shacky ground, my love for the place is on life support.
> 
> Any insight from you guys would really help, still don't know what to do ??????




We all basically signed up for the same thing, if you look again, the residency visa part, would state something like "we will sponsor you, according to the laws of the UAE at the time" which at this time dont exist, you can get a Virtual Office Visa, cost a lot of money and is valid for 3 years.

Force Majeure is again something that they dreamed up to get out of returning your money, the clause is normally only for extreme Acts of God, something like that Tsunami in Japan as an example, in Dubai, it means the plans where wrong, or something as equally as silly.

Lawyers have told be you do stand a good chance of challenging it in the courts, but a few years, 150,000 fees, everything translated to Arabic, puts you off.

RERA have stated that some new laws coming in this year will be Investor friendly, and will address the late problem, one last point, you could go to court you could win, and you could get your money back, except the Developer is also skint, and cant pay you, even if he had the money.

A.


----------



## noir-dresses

noir-dresses said:


> Just got this email from Star Giga stating they are giving me 30 more days to pay what they are asking for, or else. Most investors halted payments because the developer halted work on the project in 2008. Every body, and their mother knows that Star Giga are not doing any thing at Emirates City, but they claim they are, using black male. They are not even providing pictures with construction up dates. I have the money to pay them, but I refuse to untill they prove with out a doubt they are honest. The worst thing is the Ajman government is letting them do this legally, which makes me sick.
> 
> I would appriciate any help what to do on this one. Do I pay, and hope it will get done one day, cut my loses, get a lawyer. This has come to the principle of the matter. The developer is a crook, and could spend the rest of the money to make his life missrable if it comes to it.
> 
> Imre you were in this project before, and idea what to do. You would be the best person to take pics of the sight, and see if there is really any work going on as they say.
> 
> 
> Star Giga Establishment Limited
> Star Giga House, Office 10 - 1st Floor, Next to Oasis Centre, Sh. Zayed
> Road, Dubai, United Arab Emirates
> PO Box: 29193 | Phone: +9714-330-7640 | Fax: +9714-330-7641 | Web:
> <http://www.stargiga.ae> www.stargiga.ae | Email: <mailto:[email protected]>
> [email protected]
> 
> Mr. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Email xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> EIN Ref: xxxxxxxxxxx
> Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> 10 March 2011
> 
> Final Notice of Overdue Amount:
> Unit xxxxxx in Tower 'x' of Goldcrest Dreams - Emirates City, Ajman
> 
> Reference is made to our previous correspondences notifying you regarding
> outstanding amount towards the purchase of the property mentioned above.
> 
> We have noted that your account is in default and you have not made any
> payments in the recent past. You have till date paid only 36.4% of the unit
> purchase price. As you are well aware, the non-payment/delay in payment by
> the Unit Purchasers will abate the progress of any off-plan real estate
> projects. Our project is also behind schedule due to the non-payment/delay
> in payment by the Unit Purchasers and oppressive market conditions.
> Nevertheless, we have completed above 30% of the total project and the work
> is progressing in the site. The certificate of the project consultant is
> available on our support desk:
> <http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13192>
> http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13192.
> 
> We are now constrained to issue this Final Notice of Overdue Amount since
> you have defaulted in making payments even after our previous
> demands/notices for payment.
> 
> You are hereby requested to make payment of the overdue amount of AED
> 35,815.00 within 30 days hereof, failing which we shall initiate proceedings
> to terminate the contract as per the ARRA guidelines (you may refer to the
> ARRA guidelines here: <http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13193>
> http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13193) and forfeit all amounts paid
> towards damages. We also reserve our right to claim any further damages as
> per the prevailing laws.
> 
> A summary your account statement as per our records and the details of our
> escrow account details are enclosed herewith. If there is a reason why these
> payments have been withheld we would be obliged if you could contact us in
> order to either explain the reason or come to some form of payment
> arrangement.
> 
> Please disregard this letter in case you have already deposited the due
> payment in the project escrow account.
> 
> Please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Relations staff in case you
> need any further clarification with regards to the above issue.
> 
> We thank you for being our customer and are further grateful for your timely
> payments.
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The CRM Team
> Star Giga Establishment Limited
> 
> Star Giga House, Office# 3 - Mezzanine floor
> 
> Next to Oasis Centre, Sh. Zayed Road
> 
> PO Box: 29193, Dubai, United Arab Emirates
> 
> Phone: +971-4-330-7640, Fax: +971-4-330-7641
> 
> 
> 
> Website: <http://www.stargiga.ae/> www.stargiga.ae | Email:
> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] | Support:
> <http://crm.stargiga.ae> crm.stargiga.ae
> 
> 
> 
> Note: we recommend that you use our support desk for your queries and
> communications.
> 
> 
> 
> ======
> 
> Account Summary
> 
> 
> Unit Number:xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sale Account Ref: xxxxxxxxxx:
> 
> 
> 
> Sale Value:
> 308,382.00
> 
> Parking Value:
> .00
> 
> Total Value:
> 308,382.00
> 
> Receivable (48.0%):
> 148,023.00
> 
> Parking Receivable:
> .00
> 
> Receivable:
> 148,023.00
> 
> Received:
> 112,207.96
> 
> Current Due:
> 35,815.00
> 
> Note: all amounts in AED
> 
> ======
> 
> ======
> Escrow Account Details for your Unit xxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> Account Name:
> Escrow Goldcrest Dreams x Star Giga Establishment Limited
> 
> Escrow Account Number:
> 01-1008405-012
> 
> Bank:
> Ajman Bank
> Bank Address:
> Ajman Bank PJSC
> Khalifa Branch
> PO Box No.: 7770
> Ajman, United Arab Emirates
> Telephone: +971-6-7479999
> 
> Swift Code:
> AJMNAEAJ
> 
> We wish to remind you that you must provide the name of the unit owner and
> unit number whilst making payments for it to be traced correctly (please
> refer to the instructions here for details:
> <http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13021>
> http://crm.stargiga.ae/answer.aspx?aid=13021
> ======


As to Star Gigas statement that work is in progress. Any body can see this is not true with this pic from today, and newspaper to prove it.

I don't see one person working on this site. Not one floor has been raised since the end of 2008 when Star Giga halted construction.

They are not just taking advantage of the investors, but lying to ARRA as well.



















I would also like to thank a special person, won't mention their name for taking these good pic's, and quick.


----------



## Monument

Cool banana said:


> Any opinions on whether a villa or an apartment is the best long term (10 years) asset in Dubai?
> 
> If both are well located, part of likeable community, completed etc...
> 
> :banana:


You quote the reasons yourself where such an investment could come good over 10 years. 

There is more demand for villas and more scarcity of good villas but in order to be sure of your investment it must be in a good community probably in "Emirates Living" i.e in Meadows 1-6, Lakes, Emirates Hills etc (depending on your budget) where land between it and the sea is scarce (unlike Arabian Ranches for instance).

Apartments are less easy as there is so much on and coming onto the market. Nevertheless the scarce land is by the sea and so long as you buy within 1 kilometer of the sea in places like JBR, Palm, Marina, etc. you should certainly be OK over 10 years.

Unlike a place like Hong Kong or Singapore, land in Dubai is not scarce except along the seafront. So buying villas too far inland in areas surrounded by desert is asking for valuation issues even over 10 years. Buying apartments more than easy walking distance to the seafront is also not a good idea.

My humble view.


----------



## axe2grind

*FINANCIAL SUICIDE*

Whoever was planning on providing finance to Sunland has done their Due Diligence and come to the same conclusion that the investors have ie. THIS PROJECT CANNOT BE COMPLETED OR HANDED OVER WITHOUT THE INFRASTRUCURE IN PLACE. 
As far as Sunland is concerned its those nasty investors who are to blame for the delays not the flooding of the site, the design changes, lack of co-ordination, poor management decision making, etc. 
Sound financial reasoning says this project should have been put on hold when the master developer ceased work.
The management of this development is attempting to give a positive spin that the project will be completed but it is financial suicide to continue unless you have a proper execution plan that shows project completion, handover and occupation. Sunland will continue to play this game until the 12 months extension to the anticipated completion date of somewhere between 31 December 2009 and 30 June 2010 has been reached, ie. 30 June 2011. That date is fast approaching and completion will not have been achieved, and, thereafter they will envoke the Force Majeure clause in the contract like every other developer in Dubai that is behind schedule.


----------



## Number 49

*Sunland's Response*

UPDATE: The Palazzo submits this statement:

Emirates Sunland, the developer of Palazzo Versace Dubai would like to advise that the article that appeared in Arabian Business and the subsequent article in Business Insider, contains information that is factually incorrect, misleading, unauthorised and damaging to the project, and its related parties. Palazzo Versace Dubai is now 80% complete. Construction is continuing and has at no point stopped. As is the nature of the construction industry amendments have been made to the proposed build schedule however, no funding for Palazzo Versace Dubai has been blocked, and the finance syndicate continues to support the project’s delivery. The article quotes Ms Shapedko, on behalf of Better Homes, as follows “Based on our available information, the Palazzo Versace is heavily behind schedule… What we hear is that project funding is blocked [and] completion dates have been postponed,” Emirates Sunland has afforded Better Homes the opportunity to retract the inaccurate statement provided by Ms Shapedko, and is considering the legal implications and redress available under local UAE laws.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/palazzo-vesace-dubai-behind-schedule-2011-3#ixzz1Gg8obGx9


----------



## maeag

maeag said:


> Updated List :
> 
> Let's continue our list :
> 
> Maeag : 1 unit : 1 bedr. tower B
> OmarFromFrance: 1 unit : 1 bedr. tower ?
> Canard : 1 unit : 2 bedr. tower B
> MPAT : 1 unit : 1 bedr. tower B
> UNKNOWN fr : 1 unit : 1 bedr. tower A
> JBR09 : 2 units: 2 stud. tower B
> JBR09 : 1 unit : 1 bedr. tower B
> dubaiforlife : 1 unit : 1 bedr. tower B
> Datok: 1 unit : 1 bedr. tower B
> summerelle1: 1 unit : 1 bedr. tower B
> willy2010 1 unit : 1 bedr. tower B
> Tankstar 1 unit : 1 bedr. tower B
> 13 units, 11 owners


As a committee is under "construction", I suggest that we take the list that was started beginning of 2010 and try to continue it.
This list was already representing 13 units.
Sorry, I am out of dubai and can not do much. If someone can continue to update it and contact people it will be very great.


----------



## gdipasqu

BlueBath said:


> @ Cayman 1..................this payment plan was accepted & written in SPA. What,s the benefit to go to any lawyer as alone ? what will happen of my 90% which i already paid ?..........Loose my 90% confidence on K.M.Properties....I'm in a big dilemma..............:nuts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Imre.........this is the joke of the decade...... but how to protect this sort of jokers when they keep joking with many of us .............:banned:


Bluebath where is your situation ?


----------



## Imanoan

Dear All,

fyi...This email was sent to Rufi late today, feel free to refer to the committee and this email on your followups/meetings. Thanks to all members of the Committee for all your efforts.

Dear Rufi Properties Management,

We wanted to inform you that recently the RUFI TWIN TOWERS INVESTORS COMMITTEE (RTTIC) was formed by a group of local and international Investors. This committee was formed because of concern with regard to the lack of progress and communication about the Rufi Twin Towers Project by Rufi Real Estate in Dubai. 
Since mid 2010, we have not heard any news or updates regarding the project at Rufi Twin Towers. We have made continous visits to the site and noted that no progress has been made and all work had since stopped. You can imagine that Investors are
frustrated with no concrete answers from Rufi Real Estate in Dubai and most importantly no firm date for completion. Our aim is only to obtain the following from Rufi Real Estate with regards to Rufi Twin Towers:
1-Current Status of the Project
2-Completion Date/Handover Date
3-Quarterly Meeting with members of the Committee/Investors

We would also like to request a monthly update by email. These requests are the right for all investors to know. We would like to conduct a meeting at your convenience at your Dubai office to discuss our concerns and to open a two way communication with each other. We request a reply with the requested information to close this urgent matter.

Thanks,
RUFI TWIN TOWERS INVESTORS COMMITTEE (RTTIC)


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai: The emirate recorded residential real estate transactions worth Dh123 billion in 2010, according to the head of the Dubai Land Department.

"This is considered, in light of the economic crisis, a positive indicator," Sultan Butti Bin Mejrin, Director-General of the department told an Arab real estate conference Wednesday. 

Real estate transactions are likely to increase this year due to the "trickle down" effect as Sharjah residents move to Dubai where rents are "softening", said Ian Albert, Regional Director of Colliers International. 

The emirate is pushing ahead with 220 projects in 2011, Marwan Bin Galita, chief executive of the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera), told reporters at the conference. 

"So far we have 220 projects going on. Those are the projects we evaluated and it is proving that those are going forward," he said. 

Bin Galita declined to elaborate on projects that have been cancelled. 

"Any project that is not good for Dubai and the investors will not go on. We do have new criteria, we are evaluating all projects on those bases. All the projects are going through a process: is it fit for investment or not? This is what we're doing," he added.

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...eal-estate-transactions-worth-dh123b-1.778006


----------



## jeetha

jeetha said:


> 1,929,508 now:banana:
> 
> That 650 more then yesterday.


1,929,965 11/03/11
1,931,857 16/03/11 

That's *1892* more in 5 days.


----------



## MarkWass

Hi All

I think there has obviously been a certain amount of scepticism as to the true identity of various ‘members’ of various internet forums regarding Dubai off plan property investment. It hasn’t taken much analysis for the average individual to deduce that many forum posters are blatant VI’s (Vested Interest), whether that be those trying to hype up the market often irrationally (ie estate agents and developers) and also a few doom mongers, who have nothing better to do than just be negative for ‘fun’ and the hell of it. That comment perhaps relates to some other threads on SSC more accurately than this thread.

Anyway, although I don’t think I am one of the manic obsessive doom monger types, but given that it is still fairly evident that the regulatory body still seems to be churning out endless press releases about imaginary regulation and tight control of developers as well as supply & demand… that are based on words rather than actual action. So, may I ask: do the ‘hypers’ amongst us, still believe that Dubai offers a sensible investment choice? And if so, do they believe that the regulatory control and consumer protection mechanisms are sufficient?


----------



## agod

MarkWass said:


> Hi All
> 
> I think there has obviously been a certain amount of scepticism as to the true identity of various ‘members’ of various internet forums regarding Dubai off plan property investment. It hasn’t taken much analysis for the average individual to deduce that many forum posters are blatant VI’s (Vested Interest), whether that be those trying to hype up the market often irrationally (ie estate agents and developers) and also a few doom mongers, who have nothing better to do than just be negative for ‘fun’ and the hell of it. That comment perhaps relates to some other threads on SSC more accurately than this thread.
> 
> Anyway, although I don’t think I am one of the manic obsessive doom monger types, but given that it is still fairly evident that the regulatory body still seems to be churning out endless press releases about imaginary regulation and tight control of developers as well as supply & demand… that are based on words rather than actual action. So, may I ask: do the ‘hypers’ amongst us, still believe that Dubai offers a sensible investment choice? And if so, do they believe that the regulatory control and consumer protection mechanisms are sufficient?



I have never been a Stats Man, more a gut feeling type of bloke, and as I dont go out much, can only speak for the Marina, as I now have lived here for 3 years, the turnaround is quite amazing, with the Metro, Shops and Restaurants, and the walk way around now open, the place is becoming the hotter than ever, and I dont mean the heat, I had interest from abroad, on my place, and I wasnt even advertising it, found my email somewhere, and came over and looked from Cairo.

I think the Middle East Crisis, is pushing buyers to consider Dubai, as long as it stays safe, If Dubai was Human Being he would be considered to be a lucky guy, as he gets out of all sorts of scrapes, and if you pick the right building, with the right views, at these prices I would be a buyer.

Even with the new laws, RERA just does it's own thing, and with thousands more units coming on stream, it need's to expand to a fully blown office, that can handle the impending influx of complaints.

A.


----------



## farodkhaledmossad

Hi folks, 

that´s a real shame, start to the end, blaming investors, then denying the undenyable it´s self. It´s late, period. 
Versace´s brand on it´s worse scenario. 

Without Dubai Properties partnership, no rebate investment could be realized since you wont get any infraestructure site to ensure a Hotel needs. 
That´s a real and deep situation. 

Transparency should be the rule right now. 

Better days to come, we do hope.


----------



## whistler77

does anybody know if robin lohman is in dubai at all ?


----------



## Philippa C

Monument said:


> You quote the reasons yourself where such an investment could come good over 10 years.
> 
> There is more demand for villas and more scarcity of good villas but in order to be sure of your investment it must be in a good community probably in "Emirates Living" i.e in Meadows 1-6, Lakes, Emirates Hills etc (depending on your budget) where land between it and the sea is scarce (unlike Arabian Ranches for instance).
> 
> Apartments are less easy as there is so much on and coming onto the market. Nevertheless the scarce land is by the sea and so long as you buy within 1 kilometer of the sea in places like JBR, Palm, Marina, etc. you should certainly be OK over 10 years.
> 
> Unlike a place like Hong Kong or Singapore, land in Dubai is not scarce except along the seafront. So buying villas too far inland in areas surrounded by desert is asking for valuation issues even over 10 years. Buying apartments more than easy walking distance to the seafront is also not a good idea.
> 
> My humble view.


There is a lot of desert certainly but freehold areas within the desert are still fairly limited. Freehold areas are controlled by the authorities and I can't see any more inland areas being developed in the near future. The better inland developments have an attraction such as a golf course which attracts certain buyers. Waterfront properties anywhere in the world always command a premium.


----------



## Pleth

Noir-Dresses, as you are under ARRA (Ajman) and not RERA you may be in a better position as no way can they be as bad and untrustworthy as RERA in Dubai.
Did you visit or talk to ARRA?

You have invested a small amount and therefore a court case will cost you a lot less than 150.000 Aed as one member mentions.
You should talk to a lawyer and get a price. He will also tell you whether he would take the case, if he believes there are no money behind the developer then he probably won't take the case. You can perhaps persuade him to pay only half, and he will get the last half if you win the case.

The next problem is you have to check your contract, does it state Arbitration court or court?
I do not trust the Arbitration court as a lot of developers refuse to obey the Arbitration, and then you will have to take him to court afterwards to get your money.

If the developer claims the work has stopped because of Force Majeure, then he should have informed everybody about it *when it happened*, and what clause under Force Majeure it is.
He cannot do this six months after the work stopped.

If I were you I would start with ARRA, ask them what to do, surely they cannot be as useless as RERA, that is just not possible.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

234sale said:


> One of the Guys has just sold to Chinese client 1050AED sqft, 30% deposit paid. Even I was amazed.


Real estate prices in Dubai fell 1.7% in February and could fall up to 30% in next two years in a sign that the emirate’s beleaguered property market is still not back on track.

The latest figures from Deutsche Bank show that although the pace of decline is slowing there is still likely to be further downward pressure on the market.‘We do not see any improvement in fundamentals that could trigger a recovery, the bank said in its report.

Residential property prices in Dubai have now fallen by 62% since their peak in the middle of 2008 after the global economic downturn caused mortgage lending to dry up and speculative demand ground to a halt.

And in a separate report it is predicted that prices are likely to decline a further 25 to 30% this year and in 2012. The gloomy prediction from investment bank Rasmala is based on the fact that there is too much supply and not enough demand.

‘We believe the UAE property sector is undergoing mid-cycle dynamics. House prices have corrected by 45 to 55% but rising oversupply could see a further 25 to 30% drop in the next two years,’ Rasmala said.

‘While supply dynamics may be somewhat different for Dubai and Abu Dhabi in terms of volumes, their demand dynamics almost mirror each other in terms of a low appetite for new housing as financing remains tight and negative equity concerns linger,’ the report added.

Developers are, however, seeking to sort it out. The supply of fresh real estate in Dubai will tumble by nearly a third this year as developers hold back units in a bid to manage the city’s saturated property market, according to real estate consultants Jones Lang LaSalle.

The supply of residential, retail and hotel real estate is expected to be 32.2% lower than in 2010, a report from the real estate consultancy showed.

‘The supply clearly is being held back. That is partly due to the market factors and it is partly due to the fact some developers have had trouble financing projects and making the last payments,’ said Craig Plumb, head of research at JLL. ‘There are a number of buildings that have been completed and have not been released to the market,’ he added.

But thousands of units are scheduled for release this year, despite an estimated 40% vacancy rate in homes and offices across the emirate. JLL said some 25,000 residential units will be released on to the emirate’s property market this year, but this is a drop of 31% when compared to 2010.



The hotel market will see the largest decline in supply, with 3,400 new rooms expected to come on stream in 2011, around 55% less than the 7,700 that came online in 2010.

Plumb said an added number of new units may be held over to 2012 in a bid to pace the supply being released on to the market. ‘Some space will simply get pushed to 2012. The supply we have for 2011 will probably finish up less than we are forecasting,’ he explained.

In Abu Dhabi, the situation is reversed, JLL data shows. The capital will see a 108% surge in new real estate this year, driven by its residential market. Some 25,000 new houses and apartments are due online this year, a massive 346.4% rise in the 5,600 units released last year.

‘Dubai is past the peak of its annual pipeline of new supply while Abu Dhabi is still approaching the peak for new supply,’ the JLL report said.

Industry experts have long acknowledged the oversupply problem facing Dubai. However, there is little agreement on how long it will take to clear the backlog. Mohamed Alabbar, chairman of Burj Khalifa developer Emaar Properties, said in November it would take at least 20 months for the city to absorb its surplus stock.

Chris O’Donnell, chief executive officer of debt hit developer Nakheel, said in December that the figure was closer to three to five years.

http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/dubai-property-prices-down-201103185034.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

jeetha said:


> 1,929,965 11/03/11
> 1,931,857 16/03/11
> 
> That's *1892* more in 5 days.


Where will they all stay? there is not enough supply for them!


----------



## noir-dresses

Thanks, 

I already contact ARRA, and sent them Star Gigas messages, as well as the photos to prove they are not honest.

Who knows a good lawyer, or law firm for this kind of case. I'm sure 234Sale would know this.





Pleth said:


> Noir-Dresses, as you are under ARRA (Ajman) and not RERA you may be in a better position as no way can they be as bad and untrustworthy as RERA in Dubai.
> Did you visit or talk to ARRA?
> 
> You have invested a small amount and therefore a court case will cost you a lot less than 150.000 Aed as one member mentions.
> You should talk to a lawyer and get a price. He will also tell you whether he would take the case, if he believes there are no money behind the developer then he probably won't take the case. You can perhaps persuade him to pay only half, and he will get the last half if you win the case.
> 
> The next problem is you have to check your contract, does it state Arbitration court or court?
> I do not trust the Arbitration court as a lot of developers refuse to obey the Arbitration, and then you will have to take him to court afterwards to get your money.
> 
> If the developer claims the work has stopped because of Force Majeure, then he should have informed everybody about it *when it happened*, and what clause under Force Majeure it is.
> He cannot do this six months after the work stopped.
> 
> If I were you I would start with ARRA, ask them what to do, surely they cannot be as useless as RERA, that is just not possible.


----------



## jeetha

GTR11 said:


> this is one of the slowest projects in Dubai Marina, *BUT* at least a tiny amount of work is being done which is better than nothing, I am hope Jeetha is right and it has resumed


Resumed but never sold. 

Only one person bought here :nuts: who was regretting paying 2500 psf. 
His post was in the very beginning not sure if it is still there?

This was worth 2500 psf because of its location,  also it has Silverene views. 
Not so sure about that price now. 

Could be Select may change use or still “build it & they will come”… In say 2020.:cheers:


----------



## axe2grind

*INFRASTRUCTURE, INFRASTRUCTURE, INFRASTRUCTURE*

Having recently spoken to another developer at Cultural Village regarding the infrastructure issues, he informed me that Dubai Properties had advised him sometime ago not to continue with his development at the moment as the infrastructure would not be ready anytime soon!!!!!  He has suspended work.
If Sunland know differently or have a Plan 'B' perhaps they could be a little more transparent about what it is rather than present the image that they can complete and are in control of the issue. Currently its dillusional and mixed up thinking.


----------



## Waiting_Forever

Datok said:


> yes friend your assumption is true and correct, but you don't know the meaning of your assumption, as you say they are having cash problem, and if so, then we should pay them on time, and let them work smoothly.


Just like so many other people, I have paid them not only on time but ahead of time. The issue here is that they are very good in getting your money but not that good in honouring their promises. As per my payment plan, they should be on floor 11 but as everyone knows they are not even on floor G. 

I have been promised more than 20 times that they will be starting the contraction of Champion 4 within the next 1 or 2 months. For the last 2 years not a single brick has been constructed on this project.


----------



## Pleth

Deleted


----------



## DubaiDreamz

axe2grind said:


> Whoever was planning on providing finance to Sunland has done their Due Diligence and come to the same conclusion that the investors have ie. THIS PROJECT CANNOT BE COMPLETED OR HANDED OVER WITHOUT THE INFRASTRUCURE IN PLACE.
> As far as Sunland is concerned its those nasty investors who are to blame for the delays not the flooding of the site, the design changes, lack of co-ordination, poor management decision making, etc.
> Sound financial reasoning says this project should have been put on hold when the master developer ceased work.
> The management of this development is attempting to give a positive spin that the project will be completed but it is financial suicide to continue unless you have a proper execution plan that shows project completion, handover and occupation. Sunland will continue to play this game until the 12 months extension to the anticipated completion date of somewhere between 31 December 2009 and 30 June 2010 has been reached, ie. 30 June 2011. That date is fast approaching and completion will not have been achieved, and, thereafter they will envoke the Force Majeure clause in the contract like every other developer in Dubai that is behind schedule.


Totally agree and this is the reality. If they do not secure finance then the project is in jeopardy. Even with finance, when they have completed the condominiums there will not be a hotel available for 6 to 12 months. They need to complete the residences so they can receive a cash injection from the final payment...what do you think they will do with that cash?? Ensure their own bonuses or maybe put it to use on completing the hotel? 

If anyone lhas invested in a PV condo without the furniture package then please PM me to discuss.


----------



## DubaiDreamz

axe2grind said:


> Having recently spoken to another developer at Cultural Village regarding the infrastructure issues, he informed me that Dubai Properties had advised him sometime ago not to continue with his development at the moment as the infrastructure would not be ready anytime soon!!!!! He has suspended work.
> If Sunland know differently or have a Plan 'B' perhaps they could be a little more transparent about what it is rather than present the image that they can complete and are in control of the issue. Currently its dillusional and mixed up thinking.


Upon visiting site last week I was assured that Sunland would be issuing a letter to all owners with more info within the next few weeks...a little late I feel when there has been so much in the press. Surely they need to be more transparent with the existing investors. 
No doubt this letter will just say how well the project is moving along and that they are 87% complete according to RERA. (Is it me or is that figure TOTALLY misleading????). Probably say that project sales are picking up (7 last year etc.) and tell us how great our investment will be on completion.......i.e PLEASE DON'T DEFAULT, PLEASE, PLEASE!
Anyway, they may surprise us so let's hope they offer more accurate and relevant info that is of use to investors.


----------



## axe2grind

*MAKES YOU WANT TO SCREAM*

DubaiDreamz you are not alone in thinking the 87% completion certified by RERA is misleading, it is. RERA use a company called Scream!line to prepare these completion reports and they include an element of procurement which is about 25% of the 87%. Do the math!!!
The condominiums were sold as hotel apartments with a guaranteed 15% per annum return on investment if you lease it back to the hotel. Or so the sales people were saying. After Sunland issued the long delayed contracts there is no mention of the leaseback. I have been involved with 5 hotel developments in Dubai and to make a 5 star hotel profitable any hotel manager will tell you they need approximately 400 to 450 rooms to make it viable. So Palazzo Versace need the condominiums as 160 hotel rooms doesn't work.
The hotel apartments sales were financing the hotel costs which I wouldn't have minded had Sunland stuck to the sales pitch of 15% per annum return on investment. Since investors have stopped making payments as the development has ground to a snails pace with no sign of the very extended completion date of end of June 2011 being achieved there is no money for the hotel construction so Sunland have had to seek financing to make up the difference. 
The hotel is of no use without the condos and the condos are of no use without the hotel.
I haven't seen an apology from Better Homes so they are either correct about the financing or Sunland have commenced legal action against them.
Either way the investors are left in limbo whilst Sunland take an aggressive stance against the very people they need.
I wait with bated breath to hear what this letter is going to say but I can't imagine that it will be anything positive but I would love to be proven wrong.


----------



## Imre

*60 Living Legend investors’ protest march to Tanmiyat’s Dubai office

Demand information on completion of Dh2bn project; Rera closely monitoring situation*

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Wednesday, March 23, 2011 

Over 60 investors in the Dh2 billion Living Legends project, after having formed an action group, will go on a protest march to the developer’s site office in Dubailand on Thursday, to demand answers on completion of the project.

Living Legends is being developed by Saudi-based company Tanmiyat.

The move, investors said, is prompted by a lack of communication by the company, alleged false claims on completion date and failure by senior company officials to address investor grievances.

A Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) official confirmed to this website that the agency is closely monitoring the project and had met investors’ to try sort out the problem amicably.

“I have chased Tanmiyat several times, but could not get a concrete reply from them on the project. Every time they told us they would get back… they never came back. We tried to meet with senior company officials, but were able to meet only with the customer care relationship manager,” says AG, who has invested Dh1.6 million in a villa in the project.

DA, who has bought an apartment in the project, said: “I was promised delivery of my apartment by 2010, but they still haven’t communicated anything to me. I have followed up a number of times with them but there is no response. All I hear is that work is underway… they did send me newsletter, saying work was going on. Now, this newsletter has also stopped.”

The project was due for handover in 2008, with the completion date was later shifted to October 2010, investors claimed.

According to the Rera official, “The project is under review from our team and there had been several meeting with group of investors to find options that were acceptable to all parties.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...o-tanmiyat-s-dubai-office-2011-03-23-1.371971


----------



## metlofts123

*Anyone seen this new website??*www.ukcapitalinvestmentsfraudsters.com*

Anyone seen this new website??

www.ukcapitalinvestmentsfraudsters.com

Surely is about time that RERA needs to crack down on all Dubai's rogue developers now?


----------



## noir-dresses

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/qatar/qatar-allows-home-owners-to-get-residency-permits-1.784015

Qatar allows home owners to get residency permit. 

I like the approach Qatar has taken, basically your property is your sponsor. The UAE could learn a lot from Qatar, they seem to be doing every thing right. From what I see the residency permit isn't a rip off as well.


----------



## jasper1000

911

Why do you say that. Surley if cabins are on site at least it appears they have or will start construction soon on Lawn 4


----------



## Josau

The only way out for the UAE real estate oversupply would be a similar rule as the one Qatar just started. I'd even say, that investors will run away from the UAE to Qatar to take advantage of this new visa ruling.


----------



## Imre

*First project gets approval under Dubai guaranteed funding plan*


*Al Manal’s project in Jumeirah Lake Towers gets Dh65m financing from Mashreq bank*

March 28, 2011 

Al Manal Development has become the first real estate developer to secure a two-year funding of Dh65 million from Mashreq for its Lakeside Residence in Jumeirah Lakes Towers.

The funding has been initiated through the Dubai Land Department’s Tayseer programme.

Majida Ali Rashid Senior Consultant and Senior Director of Planning & Organizational Development at the Land Department said in a press statement: “Mashreq was the first to join the Tayseer programme by signing a funding agreement for the Lakeside Residence project being developed by Al Manal Development. The 358-apartment project has secured a two-year loan depending on completion percentages.”

http://www.emirates247.com/business...i-guaranteed-funding-plan-2011-03-28-1.374083


----------



## bizzybonita

220 Dubai property projects moving ahead: Rera chief


Investors in cancelled projects are being informed directly; Any project not good for investors will not go on
By Parag Deulgaonkar
Published Wednesday, March 16, 2011

Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) chief said on Wednesday that 220 projects were moving forward, while investors of cancelled projects were being informed directly.

"Currently, 220 projects have been evaluated and are moving forward," Rera CEO Marwan bin Ghalita told reporters on the sidelines of the third Arab Real Estate and Urban Development Conference.

"Tomorrow, the numbers would rise and since we are constantly evaluating the projects“

Although he did not say the number of projects expected to be cancelled, Ghalita said “projects that are not good for investors will not go on.”

“Project that are not good for investors will not go on… investors of the cancelled projects are being informed,” he repeated

Late last year, Rera said it has scrapped 202 projects since the global financial downturn and more were expected this year.

According to Rera chief, market sentiments had improved this year and transaction volumes were on the rise.

“The feedback I got from agents is that transaction taking place and market sentiments have improved.”

Dubai has recorded 1,647 transactions so far this year, according to Reidin.com.

Sultan Butti bin Mejrin, Director-General of the Dubai Land Department, said that transactions worth Dh120 billion were registered in 2010 and the numbers were expected to increase this year.

“In the last six years, we have introduced 10 laws and by-laws. Dubai is still leading the Middle East countries and the department is working to improve Dubai‘s position globally,” he added.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...s-moving-ahead-rera-chief-2011-03-16-1.369062


----------



## White Sausage

Been there now a couple of times, just passed by again yesterday: NO activity at all, no workers, nothing. Business as usual so to say. What a joke this whole Azizi-Gangster-cr:tongue is. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! There will never be a tower or apartments, you have been conned!!! Sorry to tell you...


----------



## cayman1

Is there a way to know which are 220 project cancelled ?


----------



## noir-dresses

He says every thing, but then he says nothing constantly beating around the bush like a trivia quiz show leaving you in suspense. The only difference is the prize/carrot is yours, and my money. :bash:

Its like visiting Vegas, most people go home after that thinking they had a great time even though they left a great deal of money there.

Reality check, when you put a side all the glitzy buildings, and come down to a human level, it really makes you think, doesn't it ????

How hard is it really for RERA to do its job ? Developers build, and advertise, investors buy, contracts are signed, payment plans/building schedules are agreed upon, and all you really have to do is see/control if either party is honouring an agreement, that's all. 

How hard is it really to figure out the real definition/meaning of Force Majeure ?????

HINT HINT, Japan would be a good start.


----------



## pisandre

cayman1 said:


> Is there a way to know which are 220 project cancelled ?


Yes: if you didn't receive a mail from your developer or from RERA, your project is not cancelled.


----------



## Freestyler

pisandre said:


> Yes: if you didn't receive a mail from your developer or from RERA, your project is not cancelled.


What if project is cancelled and nobody sends the mail?

there are 1,236 projects registered on RERA's site.


----------



## True Blue

They nees to cancel 2 just to have a nice sequence of numbers


----------



## pisandre

Freestyler said:


> What if project is cancelled and nobody sends the mail?
> 
> there are 1,236 projects registered on RERA's site.


If they forget to send a mail, it is too bad. But who cares? :-D


----------



## sandstone

Hi all - Any recommendations for a good listing agent in Dubai? I have an apartment in the marina that is for rent.


----------



## 234sale

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/rera-says-90-000-real-estate-units-under-review--391197.html

RERA says 90,000 real estate units ‘under review’ 

“Some people do not like the word cancelled, they keep saying delayed, delayed, delayed. Sometimes we have to face the truth and if a project is not good for Dubai then we have to admit and say it is cancelled.”


----------



## 234sale

sandstone said:


> Hi all - Any recommendations for a good listing agent in Dubai? I have an apartment in the marina that is for rent.


Do it yourself on Dubizzle,, its free and easy if your asking the right price


----------



## SUR

White Sausage said:


> Been there now a couple of times, just passed by again yesterday: NO activity at all, no workers, nothing. Business as usual so to say. What a joke this whole Azizi-Gangster-cr:tongue is. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! There will never be a tower or apartments, you have been conned!!! Sorry to tell you...


Yup we have been conned. Dr Azizi is no better than the Dubai authorties who allowed this to happen even though it has been obvious for many years now - they let him leave the country. It's typical of all dictatorships that the many will be screwed by the few. But as we're seeing elsewhere the time is coming when they will be called to account.


----------



## Pleth

:?


pisandre said:


> Yes: if you didn't receive a mail from your developer or from RERA, your project is not cancelled.


Not true. My project is cancelled, but I only found out by contacting the Escrow bank, and to my horror found out that the account was emptied 2 months ago!!
When I asked who took all my money, I was told it was the Land Department.

I reckon money from 220 cancelled projects - Escrow accounts could easily run up in 20.000.000.000 Dirhams.
No wonder the CEO of RERA once said he was sitting on one of the biggest money tanks in the Emirates.
There is no rush to inform the investors that their project is cancelled.

I hear nothing from Rera nor the Land Department. I expect it to be a huge struggle to get my money back. I am not even sure I will get a fair share.

Has anybody ever heard of anybody who got their money back from a cancelled project??
Or of anybody who ever won a court case over a developer?? :?


----------



## Morrismarina

So the Land Department have stolen the monies in developer's escrow accounts ?? Surely I've misunderstood ?? :dunno:


----------



## noir-dresses

Pleth said:


> :?
> 
> Not true. My project is cancelled, but I only found out by contacting the Escrow bank, and to my horror found out that the account was emptied 2 months ago!!
> When I asked who took all my money, I was told it was the Land Department.
> 
> I reckon money from 220 cancelled projects - Escrow accounts could easily run up in 200.000.000.000 Dirhams.
> No wonder the CEO of RERA once said he was sitting on one of the biggest money tanks in the Emirates.
> There is no rush to inform the investors that their project is cancelled.
> 
> I hear nothing from Rera nor the Land Department. I expect it to be a huge struggle to get my money back. I am not even sure I will get a fair share.
> 
> Has anybody ever heard of anybody who got their money back from a cancelled project??
> Or of anybody who ever won a court case over a developer?? :?


I feel your pain Pleth, they make me sick to my stomach.

No one in history has ever been lucky with dirty/unmoral money, neither will they. The movers, and shakers in the UAE just might end up being refuges in another country one day the way things are creeping there way. All the money in the world can't make you happy if you can't come back to your native home.

Money can't buy Iran, nor Israel who are playing this well thought out Jedi mind game with the MENA region, and its working to a T.

It might cost Abu Dhabi all of ADIAs, and ADICs sovereign wealth fund to bring things back to normal once shit hits the fan one day.


----------



## gerald.d

Pleth said:


> I reckon money from 220 cancelled projects - Escrow accounts could easily run up in 200.000.000.000 Dirhams.


Close to a billion dirhams per project?

Sitting in Escrow?

Really?

How did you come to that number?


----------



## pisandre

Pleth said:


> Well I guess I just find it peculiar that Land Dept. can take money from a secure bank account without telling anybody/investors.


That's the main problem from Dubai: No transparency. We can read once in a while some rubbish from RERA such as today again (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-sees-50-real-estate-sales-day-rera-says-391501.html?message=3) but no concrete action.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai's land department has dismissed as incorrect reports about the completion of tens of thousands of new houses, and said only around 10,000 new houses would be completed this year, Arabic Al Ittihad has reported. "News that between 40,000 and 50,000 housing units would be ready in 2011 are not correct," Sultan Butt bin Majran, director general of the department said. "We expect about 10,000 houses to enter the market this year but they will not put any pressure because the market is able to absorb them given the ongoing recovery in the property sector," he told the daily.

http://www.ameinfo.com/260917.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai’s population swelled by nearly 73,000 in just seven months to top 1.92 million before the end of February and maintain its position as the most populated UAE emirate, official data showed Tuesday.

At the end of Monday, Dubai’s “population clock” ticked at 1,923,403, adding at least 300 people over the past week.

The figures published by Dubai’s Statistics Centre showed there was an increase of nearly 73,000 people compared with the start of August 2010, when the clock ticked at 1,850,595.

Experts attributed the high growth to economic recovery in the emirate and a steady decline in rents, which are attracting tenants and businesses from other emirates and outside the UAE.

During the peak business hours of the day, Dubai become much more crowded, with its active population exceeding 2.87 million, according to officials in the emirate.

Dubai had a population of around 1.59 million at the end of 2009 and this means growth through 2010 and the first six weeks of 2010 was as high as 20.7 per cent.

Abu Dhabi, the largest and wealthiest emirate, has not yet published updated population data but previous statistics showed its population stood at around 1.559 million at the end of 2009. The UAE’s total population stood at 5.066 million at the end of 2009.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-up-by-73-000-in-7-months-2011-02-22-1.359224


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Since that news story on Feb 22nd, population increased by 14,972 people to 1,938,375.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

“Property prices in Dubai have reached their 2005-2006 levels, which I believe are attractive and feasible for local and foreign investment…this will benefit the domestic economy as construction costs have sharply declined,” said Mijrin. “I believe the market and prices are now heading for stability despite some price disparities in the emirate, depending on the location and the type of project,” he added.

The Dubai market is going to see stable prices, with some minor increases and decreases depending on the location and potential of each project. "The current realty prices will not continue; they are expected to increase gradually by the year-end or early 2012, he said. However, research shows that the rise will be gradual and balanced, he added.

In fact, there are several indicators that prove that Dubai real estate is on the path of recovery, said Mijrin. The most significant increase is based on trading volume and ease of selling and re-selling property in addition to the hike in dues on real estate investment to about 10 per cent, which is a good rate compared to revenues in many other markets.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-the-dubai-market-in-2011-2011-04-02-1.375947


----------



## gevorika78

patjoe said:


> hi all,
> 
> i just knew about your forum, i have a unit in building R008, i am a cash buyer, i paid 55% of a one bedroom unit, like everyone received a notice to start the payment as per the new schedue, i have been to mazaya and had a meeting with a lady in Custmer service,
> in fact i proposed to Mazaya a price reduction, coming back to the old plan 70-30 and a re-schedule of the 15% remaining to reach the 70 by monthly payments till the completion. obviously they refused all.
> i would like to join the forum if possible, participate in the meetings and eventually remain updated about the progress of your action
> thank you.


in some cases, Mazaya is offering 20% discount on units purchased in 2008


----------



## TerryPop

Its a small step in the right direction 

Nakheel opens berth facility at Palm Jumeirah
It comprises 520 berths, with 260 berths on East and West sides


Nakheel, the Dubai-based master developer, has opened its exclusive berth facility at Palm Jumeirah Marina.

The marina, which operates under the management of Nakheel Marine and Leisure, comprises 520 berths, with 260 berths on East and West sides of the marina. The berths can accommodate various types and categories of boats/yachts from 10 metres up to 30 metres.

Ali Lootah, Nakheel Chairman, said: “Dubai’s vision to become the tourist destination of choice has resulted in the need for marine and leisure facilities, offered inside Palm Jumeirah. The marine and leisure industry has a competitive market and our aim is to provide a world class marina services with lot of recreational opportunities in an attractive environment, which re-enforces values and creates a relaxing ambience, attracting multi-national communities.”

The marina will provide high quality services that are required for boats and yachts on a short term and long term basis, said Saeed Harib, Managing Director, Nakheel Marine & Leisure


----------



## Face81

Pretty interesting news......



> *Dubai default risk back to pre-crisis level
> *
> 
> Dubai default risk back to pre-crisis level
> CDS recover on positive investment sentiment
> 
> By Vicky Kapur
> Published Tuesday, April 05, 2011
> 
> The cost of insuring five-year Dubai debt against default plunged to its pre-crisis levels this morning with the emirate’s economic engine roaring back to life in the first quarter of the year.
> 
> Dubai’s five-year credit default swaps (CDS) have continued to recover on positive economic and financial investment sentiment, and have dropped to about 380 basis points this morning according to CMA DataVision’s Sovereign Risk Monitor.
> 
> The CDS are now hovering around the same levels where they were in November 2009, before the Dubai government announced a standstill on debt held by Dubai World. The CDS peaked last year at 655bp in February, and have dropped more than 40 per cent since then. Earlier this year, CDS of debt issuers in the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) took a hit as political tensions in some countries of the MENA region escalated.
> 
> The cost of insuring five-year Saudi debt against default – until then one of the world’s safest 10 debt issuing sovereigns – rocketed more than 46 per cent in a single day on January 28 on regional woes. Qatar too saw its CDS rates shoot up by close to 15 per cent the same day, while Dubai CDS inched up to 452.75bp on Friday, a leap from around 400bp in the weeks before the region flared up, with problems in Tunisia, Algeria and Yemen all adding up to political tensions in an already disturbed region.
> 
> However, the perception of default and with it the CDS have been on a steady decline since Dubai World announced an agreement with 100 per cent of its creditors last month.
> CDS are benchmarks for protecting debt against default and traders use them to speculate on credit quality. An increase suggests deteriorating perceptions of creditworthiness and a drop shows improvement.
> 
> The swap contracts pay the buyer face value in exchange for the underlying securities if a borrower fails to meet its debt agreements. A basis point is 0.01 percentage point. Despite the recent steady decline in the Dubai CDS rate, analysts believe that the rate remains high in comparison with some of the other global sovereigns.


Source


AND




> *Dubai has 50 property transactions a day*
> 
> 
> As Dubai’s hotels fill to capacity, airlines add extra flights to cope with increasing demand and the emirate’s population reaches a new milestone, it now seems as though Dubai’s property market is also bouncing back strongly. Industry experts are widely in agreement that the market conditions in Dubai have now stabilised which has been backed by the head of the Real Estate Regularity Authority (RERA), Marwan Bin Ghalaita.
> 
> “The market is in a stable state. We are seeing around 50 transactions a day in the Land Department and I am talking about fresh transactions” he told Arabian Business. “[It’s] those coming to Dubai to take advantage of the opportunities in real estate.”
> 
> This official data has been strongly supported by reports from the ground where industry professionals have recently seen a surge in enquiries and successful sales. Giles Beswick, Director of Select Property one of Europe’s largest sellers of overseas property commented on the current situation.
> 
> “Having sold over 3,500 properties in the UAE over the last 7 years, we are very in-tune with the changing market conditions there and we have definitely noticed an upward trend. Dubai enquires have increased by nearly 60% compared with this month last year. We are actually launching a new Dubai Marina product this week to keep up with demand”


Source


----------



## Face81

*Bullish forecasts for Dubai on back of Asia growth*
By Ali Khalil (AFP) – 5 days ago

DUBAI — The economy of Dubai, whose financial woes rattled world markets in late 2009, is tipped to grow over the next two years on the back of robust economic activity in Asia, economists said on Wednesday.

"We're quite bullish" about economic growth in the Gulf emirate, a big-spending boomtown before its debt crisis, said Farouk Soussa, chief economist at Citibank.

"This year, we expect growth to be at 4.5 percent. We expect growth in 2012 to be at 6.3 percent," Soussa told participants at a conference on Dubai's economic outlook.

Its economy contracted about 2.4 percent in 2009, according to Dubai's Department of Economic Development (DED), after the world financial crisis dried out foreign backing for an economy growing at breakneck speed.

DED chief economist, Mohammed Lahouel, also sounded upbeat on economic growth prospects for the trade hub, pointing out that trade and logistics such as ports were spearheading the recovery.

"Given the vibrant recovery of the trade and logistics sector, growth is expected to accelerate in 2011... Conservative estimates would put growth between three to four percent in 2011," he said.

"It was at 2.5 percent in 2010," he added.

Dubai is geographically well-located to reap benefits from rapid economic growth in Asia, according to Marios Maratheftis, a research chief at Standard Chartered bank.

"The global economy is in a super cycle, but this time it is in the east. We expect strong growth... Dubai is well located to benefit from this growth," Maratheftis said.

Lahouel pointed to growth for Dubai's major trading partners in Asia, especially India. "We expect in 2011 a continuation of recovery due to fast rising demand in major trade partners," he said.

A combination of location and modern infrastructure boosts Dubai's competitive advantages, Soussa said.

"Location is at the heart of success for Dubai as a trade hub. UAE infrastructure comes first in the region," he said. Tourism and retail basics were also strong.

Maratheftis said Dubai's current growth was "better quality" than the massive expansion of the past that was driven by excess liquidity. "A growth rate at four percent, driven by logistics and tourism, is more sustainable."

However, Dubai still has to deal with the legacy of its battered real estate sector.

The sector grew rapidly until it crashed with the global financial crisis, sending property prices tumbling to half their peak values registered in summer 2008, and creating a supply glut.

Soussa said the legacy would continue to "impact on the financial sector's balance sheet," as demonstrated in banks' exposure to real estate lending.

The "excess capacity," while exerting downward pressure on prices and rents, could at the same time "stimulate new business and large foreign direct investment flows," Lahouel said.

Dubai sent jitters through global financial markets in late 2009 when it announced a freeze on debt payments by its largest group, Dubai World.

But it has since reached a settlement with creditors to reschedule $14.7 billion of Dubai World's debt, while converting $8.9 billion of government aid into equity.

The emirate was boosted last year by $20 billion in aid from the federal government of the United Arab Emirates, of which it is a member, and from oil-rich Abu Dhabi, which heads the federation.

Copyright © 2011 AFP. All rights reserved

Source


----------



## True Blue

TerryPop said:


> Its a small step in the right direction
> 
> Nakheel opens berth facility at Palm Jumeirah
> It comprises 520 berths, with 260 berths on East and West sides
> 
> 
> Nakheel, the Dubai-based master developer, has opened its exclusive berth facility at Palm Jumeirah Marina.
> 
> The marina, which operates under the management of Nakheel Marine and Leisure, comprises 520 berths, with 260 berths on East and West sides of the marina. The berths can accommodate various types and categories of boats/yachts from 10 metres up to 30 metres.
> 
> Ali Lootah, Nakheel Chairman, said: “Dubai’s vision to become the tourist destination of choice has resulted in the need for marine and leisure facilities, offered inside Palm Jumeirah. The marine and leisure industry has a competitive market and our aim is to provide a world class marina services with lot of recreational opportunities in an attractive environment, which re-enforces values and creates a relaxing ambience, attracting multi-national communities.”
> 
> The marina will provide high quality services that are required for boats and yachts on a short term and long term basis, said Saeed Harib, Managing Director, Nakheel Marine & Leisure


Nakheel marina and leisure! I'm sure an international marina management company was supposed to be operating the marinas on the Palm. I guess they didn't like Nakheels credit history.


----------



## Face81

Lots of interesting news out today! :cheers:



> *Dubai offered a short-term shot in the arm*
> By Simeon Kerr
> 
> Published: April 4 2011 17:37 | Last updated: April 4 2011 17:37
> 
> 
> As a liberal outpost in a tough region, Dubai has historically prospered from its neighbours’ misfortunes.
> 
> At the turn of the 20th century, the emirate drew in heavily taxed Persian traders; in the 1980s, the Iran-Iraq war turned the city’s port into a haven for tankers and ship repair; and, in the aftermath of the 2001 September 11 attacks, money flows to the Gulf found a welcome home in a booming property sector.
> 
> Now, as opposition movements challenge dictators around the Arab world, another wave of instability is providing Dubai with a period of opportunity.
> 
> The emirate, which still needs to repay or reschedule state-linked loans of $12bn this year, is receiving a much-needed fillip as it returns to growth after recession in 2009 and a limp recovery last year.
> 
> “North Africa is in turmoil and much of the region is moving, so the central point is that Dubai will be a safe haven for the whole region,” says Nasser Saidi, chief economist of the Dubai International Financial Centre. “Companies that serve the region will look at the critical role of an open economy, political stability and culture of openness.”
> 
> The optimistic outlook is shared by Citigroup, which forecasts growth of up to 4 per cent in Dubai this year and 6 per cent in 2012.
> 
> The emirate’s recovery is most visible at the bustling airport and in downtown hotels. Dubai Airports said passenger numbers passing through Dubai International in January rose 10 per cent year-on-year and that international freight volumes were up 3.9 per cent.
> 
> In terms of hospitality and tourism, in January and February Beirut and Cairo both reported hotel occupancy levels down about 40 per cent.
> 
> In the Gulf, Bahrain’s hotel occupancy rates fell 20 per cent in February compared with the same month a year ago, and analysts expect further declines in March as Saudi tourists and western businessmen avoid political turmoil.
> 
> But occupancy in Dubai, is up 3.1 percentage points to 81 per cent in the year to date, even as new hotels open.
> 
> “Dubai’s hospitality sector is diversified with some 40 per cent of rooms in the mid-scale to budget segments, thus rendering Dubai qualified to benefit from the tourism fallout of Egypt and Tunisia,” says Alex Kyriakidis, global managing director for tourism at Deloitte.
> 
> Increased interest is also being experienced in parts of the property market, which for two years has been in free fall.
> 
> The stock of empty and part-built residential and commercial space, while a headache for investors and banks, is providing breathing space for tenants and makes leasing rates more attractive to new arrivals.
> 
> The property regulator is reviewing some of the 90,000 units planned for completion through until 2016 as it tries to massage supply to fit demand. But real estate agents say transactions are increasing and interest is rising from North Africa and other regional countries.
> 
> Western banks in the emirate are reporting a rise in deposits as investors move their money to safer places. Swiss banks, however, are under orders to steer clear of politically exposed people in line with anti-money laundering regulations.
> 
> “We’ve been told to keep new accounts to a minimum,” says one banker with a Swiss institution.
> 
> Yet if Dubai is set for a short-term gain, longer-term the picture is less certain. Relations between the Gulf Co-operation Council and Iran are testy, at best, following intervention by Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates in Bahrain.
> 
> While the UAE is identified as one of the countries least affected by political turmoil across the region, HSBC says even more politically stable countries “expect more sluggish private-sector growth performances as perceptions of regional political risk rise.”
> 
> Dubai could also find its ambitions thwarted by other centres, from Abu Dhabi to Mumbai, says David Stevens, a Dubai-based partner at PwC.
> 
> Most of all, the emirate needs strong economies around the world with which it can trade and provide services for.
> 
> “While there may be short-term gains in some sectors, Dubai’s long-term, sustainable economic development requires political stability and investor confidence in the region,” says Mark Beer, chairman of Dubai’s British Business Group.
> 
> “The rest of the world views this region as amorphous, and uncertainty anywhere decreases confidence and certainty, which is bad for business,” he adds.
> 
> Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2011.


Source


----------



## whistler77

Hi, 

the German Prosecuter brings a charge of fraud in the German Funds ACI III. - V. against Robin Lohmann. Highg costs and some brokerages had not been displayed in the prospects. Attached find the link (unfortunately in German):

http://www.nw-news.de/owl/regionale_wirtschaft/4361287_Staatsanwalt_klagt_Dubai-Fonds-Chefs_an.html

For further information give me a PM


----------



## bizzybonita

RERA says 90,000 real estate units ‘under review’ 

Dubai’s real estate watchdog is carrying out a financial review of about 90,000 real estate units due to be delivered over the next five years to assess their viability, its CEO said Wednesday.

“We are reviewing more than 90,000 units that will come to the market from today to 2016,” Marwan Bin Ghalaita said on the sidelines of a meeting in Dubai.

“Some people do not like the word cancelled, they keep saying delayed, delayed, delayed. Sometimes we have to face the truth and if a project is not good for Dubai then we have to admit and say it is cancelled.”

Ghalaita said on March 17 that Dubai had 220 residential real estate projects ongoing this year. 

Dubai's property sector was hit hard by the downturn, with billions of dollars worth of projects put on hold or cancelled amid tumbling real estate prices. 

Speculators caught with multiple properties and little chance to turn a profit fled the market and defaulted on purchases, while other buyers continued to honor their contracts, often paying installments even after work was halted in the aftermath of the crisis. 

About 50 percent of Dubai real-estate projects were cancelled or suspended after the collapse, included branded developments such as Dubai Properties' Tiger Woods real estate project.

Ghalaita said Dubai had learned lessons from the crisis and was now imposing stricter rules on developers in a bid to rebuild trust in the emirate’s real estate market. 

“Let us not forget the supply coming to the market is managed by us. Now we are getting tough on supply and have added new requirements for anybody who is tackling developments in Dubai, not only for sub developers but even for the master developers,” he said. 

RERA is focusing on specific issues including the quality standards of real estate projects and whether developers maintain escrow accounts for investor funds. 

“Previously people who were promising to deliver high end [properties], it is not even middle class so we are building in more controls before they start development in Dubai,” he said. “We are reevaluating escrow accounts to make it more trustful for investors.”

Ghalaita told Arabian Business in December AED2bn ($545m) was missing from the escrow or trust accounts into which investors placed their deposits, as developers had tapped funds to pay for construction costs. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/rera-says-90-000-real-estate-units-under-review--391197.html


----------



## True Blue

Some interesting comments and statments in that report. Seems they are being inundated with complaints relating to poor quality properties where people were promised high end and were not even delivered middle class average quality.

With Nakheel and Emaar both having projects that are still to be delivered, I can see Rera pushing to cancel private developments that the developer has a track record of poor quality and late delivery. Emaar and Nakheel will try and protect the values of their uncompleted stock with the help of Rera.


----------



## Richard Head

Hope you're right TB. A side effect of this would be to correct (or at least limit the duration of) the general oversupply situation, and help values of completed properties to start a slow, steady recovery. It gets my vote :cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

> We are actually launching a new Dubai Marina product this week to keep up with demand


Which marina product is this, West Avenue?

http://www.selectproperty.com/dubai-property-news/dubai-50-property-transactions-day/#


----------



## Face81

Dubai_Steve said:


> Which marina product is this, West Avenue?
> 
> http://www.selectproperty.com/dubai-property-news/dubai-50-property-transactions-day/#


Maybe some sort of new classification system? :dunno:

Sea view/no sea view, etc etc?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Don't forget that Damac heights was launched in Feb 06 (over 5 years ago!) and they are still playing in the sand too.


----------



## Face81

^^ Google translate 



Attorney accuses Dubai fund chief

Suspected investment fraud

Ludger Osterkamp



Gütersloh. The prosecution against the head of the Bielefeld Gütersloh investment company Alternative Capital Invest (ACI) filed charges. She throws Uwe Lohmann (66) and his son Robin (36) before capital investment fraud.

ACI had wanted to build with the money from the funds of skyscrapers in Dubai. But the company had collected 8,000 small investors around 70 million €. The financing was bursting, the funds are now bankrupt.


As managing director of real estate funds Uwe Lohmann and Robin had made in the prospectuses to the authorities false information. "They have significant and adverse facts concealed," said chief prosecutor Klaus Pollmann, spokesman for the main economic crime department, said yesterday. She said that the information on brokerage commissions, advertising costs and fees for trademark rights.

The prosecution relates to their indictment on three cases from 2006 and 2007: the ACI Fund III was using the false promises of 19.2 million euros collected by the limited partnership investors, IV and V respectively of the Fund 18.4.

What is the harm to individual investors is whether they still can count on payments is not relevant for the prosecution, "said Pollock. Relevant to the charges alone were the wrong information in the prospectuses. They would be punished with imprisonment up to three years or a fine.

The investment company ACI had lured investors not only with double-digit returns, but also with prominent names. So the company had won Gütersloher with its small, just a few employees took office Boris Becker, Niki Lauda and Michael Schumacher as their namesakes for the new Dubai skyscraper. The office towers were never built. On the contrary, in September announced its bankruptcy for ACI Fund II to V. Investors are still waiting on payments. The Lohmann's always referred to the global financial crisis and the collapse of the real estate market in the emirate.
ListenRead phonetically


----------



## True Blue

Compare apples with apples Steve. This is a straight forward build, nothing tricky other than the developer.


----------



## burntfingers

Ref RERA CEO.
Similar situation. Sent two e-mails over last 10 days. No response as yet.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

propertyfinder.ae
dubizzle


----------



## 234sale

IISinbadII said:


> Other than GNAds4U and bhomes, what other websites people are using for property rentals?


Nobody uses Better Homes anymore..

Stick it own Dubizzle, as owner, loads of calls if the price is right.

In fact all the agents are using Dubizzle as well..


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/08/government-shutdown-2011-live-updates
9 hours to US shutdown,, last minute deal,, we hope..


----------



## 234sale

^^ US issue resolved, only $38B cuts


----------



## IISinbadII

Dubai_Steve said:


> propertyfinder.ae
> dubizzle





> Nobody uses Better Homes anymore..
> 
> Stick it own Dubizzle, as owner, loads of calls if the price is right.
> 
> In fact all the agents are using Dubizzle as well..


Steve and 234sale,

THANKS for your reply. 

I have not been here for some time. How is the market now. Any sign of stability or recovery. Is it time to buy?


----------



## 234sale

All ways is the time to buy if you can get it cheap,, always the time to sell if you can get the target price.

Is the maket going up or down?

Answer,,, both

Cheap stuff is selling, but harder to find true bargins

Expensive Stuff isn't selling, thus sellers have to be realistic.

Developers still have large inventories to shift.

Would I buy,, 

hmmmm...


----------



## gerald.d

Well I guess this is one way to try to get some of the office space let...

*Be warned: Virtual offices are illegal, says Dubai economic dept*
Any company without physical premises will be treated as fraudulent

http://www.emirates247.com/news/be-...-says-dubai-economic-dept-2011-04-10-1.379074



> A growing number of advertisements offering to set-up businesses in Dubai with ‘virtual’ offices has prompted the Dubai Department of Economic Development (DED) to issue a warning that any business operating from a “virtual office” is illegal.
> 
> It has advised potential investors not to be taken in by the advertisements as they would be deemed as having applied for a business licence with fraudulent documentation.
> 
> All commercial enterprises in Dubai are required to have a physical address and an actual office.
> 
> A large number of advertisements in the daily newspapers offer investors the chance to open a private firm by paying as little as Dh3,000 for a licence and another Dh 6,000 to get an office or shop-lease document.
> 
> The business then exists only on paper, but documentation is provided to prove that a physical office space exists.
> 
> When this website responded to one of the advertisements, a 'business consultant' assured us saying: “Any request for the DED or Dubai Municipality to inspect the premises is rare. Secondly, if the inspection is necessary, an office will be provided at the physical address mentioned in the documentation just for the inspection.”
> 
> The practice allegedly involves building owners as well.
> 
> "We charge a rental of Dh6,000 a year as we have to get the lease document from the owner of the building. We have to pay them for the document," the consultant said.
> 
> A top official from DED said that getting such a business licence will be a type of fraud.
> 
> “In order to open a business, the investors must have a premise from where they operate this business. There should be a place which inspectors from Dubai Municipality can check and examine.”
> 
> “Many investors respond to the advertisements. They see these ads in the newspapers and think it is legal to operate in this way. Once the municipality officials have examined and checked the space and investors get the trade licence, they are on their own. They do not know what their physical address is being used for anymore.”
> 
> He pointed out that laws do not protect such investors.
> 
> “Investors must do their part. They should never look into the benefits and savings which they will make if they get into such practices. They must look at it as a fraud and be aware of the risks,” he stressed.


----------



## Hanna

*Lawyer's must sign on strata declaration*

Declarations not legally ratified will be rejected by Rera, say legal experts
By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Sunday, April 10, 2011 

According to Kelly, law firms are negotiating with the Land Department for an acceptable “lawyer’s statement” and believes the matter will be resolved shortly. (AGENCY)

The Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), the regulatory arm of the Dubai Land Department, has made it mandatory to get Jointly Owned Property Declarations (JOPDs) under the Strata Law approved and signed by lawyers prior to submission, experts told Emirates 24|7.

“The Land Department wants JOPDs to be produced by qualified and experienced lawyers to ensure that the declarations comply with the Jointly Owned Property Law, have been appropriately drafted and are a workable management tool for the owners going forward,” said Stephen Kelly, Legal Director, Real Estate, Clyde & Co.

Brent Baldwin, Associate, Hadef & Partners, said: “Rera will not register any owners association unless the JOPDs are signed by a lawyer. Earlier, the agency found many discrepancies with the documents submitted by the developers for setting of OAs, but with lawyers attesting documents they are certain they will be legally accurate.”

According to Kelly, law firms are negotiating with the Land Department for an acceptable “lawyer’s statement” and believes the matter will be resolved shortly.

Baldwin said their law firm was among the few that were closely working with Rera to finalise the guidelines for the declaration.

Rera had set an October 2010 deadline to complete all documentation process and register owners’ associations.

In August 2010, Graham Yeates, Head of Strata Management, Cluttons had told this website that they estimate there would be about 2,000 owners’ associations in Dubai. 

However, Rera CEO Marwan bin Galitha said in January that 150 owners associations had been registered.

:cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

gerald.d said:


> Well I guess this is one way to try to get some of the office space let...
> 
> *Be warned: Virtual offices are illegal, says Dubai economic dept*
> Any company without physical premises will be treated as fraudulent
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/be-...-says-dubai-economic-dept-2011-04-10-1.379074


Isn't it better to get a virtual office in RAK instead to bypass this as agod did etc.?


----------



## essani

I have returned to the property field after a long break . Now , I am purchasing a Townhouse for my personal requirement in Jumeirah Village Circle *(Obviously I'm going for a Ready-to-Move In)* SO if the experts kindly advise if this is townhouse is worth a purchase . The TH offered to me is a 4 bedroom property ,of G+2 storied (3602 sq ft) , for 1.6 million .
Kindly give the best ,transparent opinions as the reason for leaving this field earlier was due to the crisis situation in Dubai Real Estate Market .

THANKS .


----------



## Cayman

The layout of the G+2 town houses I have seen in JVC are very impractical. In fact in my opinion any house that spans over three levels may not be ideal.


----------



## Imre

*26 units worth Dh147m sold in Burj Khalifa during 2011 Q1*

*Biggest deal registered was Dh28.17 million for a 7,158 square-foot apartment

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Monday, April 11, 2011* 

Over Dh147 million has been spent by investors to buy 26 apartments in Burj Khalifa, the world's tallest tower, during the first quarter of 2011, according to figures available with Reidin.com.

The biggest deal to be registered with the Dubai Land Department during the period was worth Dh28.17 million, spent on purchasing a 7,158 square-foot apartment. The smallest apartment sold during the period was a 549 square-foot unit for Dh1.48 million.

Sale prices per square feet ranged between Dh3,936 and Dh2,133, according to the data. The nationality of the investors has been withheld.

Emaar Properties, the developer of the tower, said in February that it had handed over 770 units in Burj Khalifa.

The 2,717-feet high tower has 900 studio, one, two, three and four bedroom, while the Armani Residences has 144 fully furnished private apartments.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...rj-khalifa-during-2011-q1-2011-04-11-1.379540


----------



## Allright

*JLT Office Rent*

Hello, I know that the office situation in general is depressed.
If you could give me a view on the below it would be great:
I own 1,700 sqft office in Mazaya Business Avenue in JLT.
What is the likely rent per sqft I can achieve and how long would I need to rent it, realistically?

Many thanks


----------



## ummbutti

This is strange ...
Sorry to hear that ...


----------



## Face81

Allright said:


> Hello, I know that the office situation in general is depressed.
> If you could give me a view on the below it would be great:
> I own 1,700 sqft office in Mazaya Business Avenue in JLT.
> What is the likely rent per sqft I can achieve and how long would I need to rent it, realistically?
> 
> Many thanks


If you want a tenant today, put it on the market for AED 30 / sq ft. If you want it to sit around for ages and have it listed on the books of every agent in Dubai, then go with the JLT average of AED 50-70/sq ft, but it will probably be REALLY tough to rent at that price. 

Throw in a 3-6 month rent free period, maybe have it partly fitted out and you may find yourself a tenant sooner than you expect. 

That's my understanding of the current market pricing :cheers:


----------



## rags

Some interesting pieces in today's FT regarding Dubai / UAE transportation. Thought might be useful to post links here:

http://www.ft.com/reports/rail-transport-2011

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4987b484-...1a4-11e0-88f7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1JDK1vSYD

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/33ea69f0-...1a4-11e0-88f7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1JDK1vSYD

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4d67e89e-...1a4-11e0-88f7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1JDK1vSYD


----------



## noir-dresses

rags said:


> Some interesting pieces in today's FT regarding Dubai / UAE transportation. Thought might be useful to post links here:
> 
> http://www.ft.com/reports/rail-transport-2011
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4987b484-...1a4-11e0-88f7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1JDK1vSYD
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/33ea69f0-...1a4-11e0-88f7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1JDK1vSYD
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4d67e89e-...1a4-11e0-88f7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1JDK1vSYD



Could you copy past those links, and put it in the UAE National Railway thread that is located at the Transportation and Infrastructure section.

I don't feel like registering with FT, and getting junk mail every day, thanx.


----------



## OmarFromFrance

Imanoan said:


> Dear All,
> 
> fyi...This email was sent to Rufi late today, feel free to refer to the committee and this email on your followups/meetings. Thanks to all members of the Committee for all your efforts.
> 
> Dear Rufi Properties Management,
> 
> We wanted to inform you that recently the RUFI TWIN TOWERS INVESTORS COMMITTEE (RTTIC) was formed by a group of local and international Investors. This committee was formed because of concern with regard to the lack of progress and communication about the Rufi Twin Towers Project by Rufi Real Estate in Dubai.
> Since mid 2010, we have not heard any news or updates regarding the project at Rufi Twin Towers. We have made continous visits to the site and noted that no progress has been made and all work had since stopped. You can imagine that Investors are
> frustrated with no concrete answers from Rufi Real Estate in Dubai and most importantly no firm date for completion. Our aim is only to obtain the following from Rufi Real Estate with regards to Rufi Twin Towers:
> 1-Current Status of the Project
> 2-Completion Date/Handover Date
> 3-Quarterly Meeting with members of the Committee/Investors
> 
> We would also like to request a monthly update by email. These requests are the right for all investors to know. We would like to conduct a meeting at your convenience at your Dubai office to discuss our concerns and to open a two way communication with each other. We request a reply with the requested information to close this urgent matter.
> 
> Thanks,
> RUFI TWIN TOWERS INVESTORS COMMITTEE (RTTIC)


Hi,

Any (bad) news from RUFI ?

Regards,
Omar


----------



## Dubai_Steve

> On a positive note, Qatar's move to liberalise its visa regulations could put more pressure on the UAE to implement similar changes, which would provide a major boost for Dubai's residential market, JLL said.
> 
> http://www.ameinfo.com/261882.html



Could it ever happen?


----------



## 234sale

It could as Abu Dhabi isn't finding buyers for Al Reem Island.

Went to Cityscape AD last year, going this year http://www.cityscapeabudhabi.com/


----------



## burntfingers

ummbutti - have received initial response today after chase up e-mail. He has requested some more detailed information, and has promised to get back to me. Thank you for sharing the contact details with me / us. Hopefully I can get some truthfull answers regarding my purchase into Lawns 4 after all the differing "stories" from DEC etc etc. Any constructive information I get, I will pass on through this site if I feel it could benefit others.


----------



## Philippa C

Let's hope the whole residence visa issue is reviewed. I can understand the need to be cautious but a 5 year visa would be very attractive and if the conditions to obtain one were sufficiently stringent, it need not have a negative impact.


----------



## rags

Hope you could open this.

http://media.ft.com/cms/0c08e8b0-61a5-11e0-88f7-00144feab49a.pdf


----------



## essani

Face81 said:


> If you want a tenant today, put it on the market for AED 30 / sq ft. If you want it to sit around for ages and have it listed on the books of every agent in Dubai, then go with the JLT average of AED 50-70/sq ft, but it will probably be REALLY tough to rent at that price.
> 
> Throw in a 3-6 month rent free period, maybe have it partly fitted out and you may find yourself a tenant sooner than you expect.
> 
> That's my understanding of the current market pricing :cheers:


What's your opinion on the rental situation in Jumeirah Village Circle ,for villas/townhouses


----------



## Wac

burntfingers - After reading your message, I also sent him a reminder. It is always a good idea to share such info. Thanks.


----------



## dirtyharry1

If you are lucky you can rent there free of charge!


----------



## jeetha

^^Better still… maids, gardener & butler included for free.

And get your landlord to pay you for your food bill also.:lol:


----------



## Face81

essani said:


> What's your opinion on the rental situation in Jumeirah Village Circle ,for villas/townhouses


I reckon two bed townhouses should/could be let for 60-80k / annum :dunno:


----------



## williamX

*Cirque Du Soleil*

Here is very interesting and exclusive interview with founder of Cirque Du Soleil:
http://olegtinkov.livejournal.com/147459.html From 15.50 some info about deal with Dubai World.


----------



## Vak

If anyone interested to sell individual unit or full floor or building pls PM me, i am interested to purchase.

Thanks


----------



## avid

Vak i have a 3 bed aprtment approx 1,800 sq ft; let me know should you be interested




Vak said:


> If anyone interested to sell individual unit or full floor or building pls PM me, i am interested to purchase.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Imre

*Business Bay residents forced to pay Salik... even for grocery run*

*Construction forces several access points into the district to be closed earlier this month*

By Bindu Suresh RaiPublished Thursday, April 14, 2011 


Several Business Bay residents are crying foul over new roadworks that have blocked all other access points in and out of the area, forcing them to use the Al Safa Salik tollgate.

Some say access point to enter the district from the toll free Al Khail Road is still open, but the exit road is blocked off, forcing them to re route their cars and head to Sheikh Zayed Road.

“Even a run to the grocery store is now forcing us to drive through the tollgates,” said Akanksha Mehta, a resident of Executive Towers in Business Bay who said the routes were blocked as early as the first week of April.

“I have a two-year-old child so you can imagine the number of times we have to rush in emergency supplies – be it for diapers, baby formula or cough medicine if she is sick.

“We moved to Business Bay because the rent was more affordable and the location was perfect for both my husband and my work commute. But this is hurting our pockets.”

http://www.emirates247.com/lifestyl...alik-even-for-grocery-run-2011-04-14-1.380645


----------



## Beppe786

CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS MEANS A FULL REFUND IF NO HANDOVER BEFORE END OF THE YEAR.. ITS FROM MY BC CONTRACT


----------



## 234sale

Beppe786 said:


> CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS MEANS A FULL REFUND IF NO HANDOVER BEFORE END OF THE YEAR.. ITS FROM MY BC CONTRACT


Ask the court of arbitration

http://www.diac.ae/idias/

please not here as I don't want to be dragged into disputes.

FYI the court does not except the change in economic climate as force majeure and developers have no influence in this court. (http://www.expatwoman.com/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=112815)


As to the Brit Story,, use sky majlis..


----------



## Beppe786

234sale said:


> Ask the court of arbitration
> 
> http://www.diac.ae/idias/
> 
> please not here as I don't want to be dragged into disputes.
> 
> FYI the court does not except the change in economic climate as force majeure and developers have no influence in this court. (http://www.expatwoman.com/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=112815)
> 
> 
> As to the Brit Story,, use sky majlis..


thanks for the info


----------



## javed907

hello all
any body can guide me about how to get connection for Empower (district cooling).is title dead is required(compulsory) or SPA will be enough.i have a appt in churchill tower for that i want to get keys and developer told to get Empower connction first and empower needs title dead which i dont have.
any body can give advice to me that how i can solve this puzzeled


----------



## Philippa C

234sale said:


> Ask the court of arbitration
> 
> http://www.diac.ae/idias/
> 
> please not here as I don't want to be dragged into disputes.
> 
> FYI the court does not except the change in economic climate as force majeure and developers have no influence in this court.
> 
> Can the DIAC be used for property disputes instead of the Dubai Courts? I had never heard of it before and I'm sure it would interest a lot of people.


----------



## gerald.d

Imre said:


> “I have a two-year-old child so you can imagine the number of times we have to rush in emergency supplies – be it for diapers, baby formula or cough medicine if she is sick.


Nope. I can't imagine it at all.

These aren't emergency supplies. Nothing that couldn't be planned for in a weekly, or even monthly, shop.

Not to mention there are supermarkets open on site now who would be more than happy to deliver such supplies to her front door.

Stupid bint.


----------



## 234sale

Philippa C said:


> 234sale said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask the court of arbitration
> 
> http://www.diac.ae/idias/
> 
> Can the DIAC be used for property disputes instead of the Dubai Courts? I had never heard of it before and I'm sure it would interest a lot of people.
> 
> 
> 
> Only if, your juristiction is the court of arbitration as mentioned in the spa or contract,,
Click to expand...


----------



## Imre

gerald.d said:


> Nope. I can't imagine it at all.
> 
> These aren't emergency supplies. Nothing that couldn't be planned for in a weekly, or even monthly, shop.
> 
> Not to mention there are supermarkets open on site now who would be more than happy to deliver such supplies to her front door.
> 
> Stupid bint.



Salik is just a small thing, I was there few times , the whole area is very bad , poor finishing ,bad smell etc..

I know someone he just moved there in January and already cancelled his tenancy contract , he was happy to pay the penalty and moved to Dubai Marina this week


----------



## FWIW

Thanks mark for the history and information you have provided.

I will be sending you an email.

Regards,

Fwiw



Mistermark said:


> Regular visitors to this forum may be aware that I contracted to buy two apartments in The Torch, Dubai Marina, from developer Torch Select Limited - a division of Select Group Limited, in the summer of 2005 and a third unit the following year. The units were due to be delivered by the end of June 2008, with a contractual right for the developer to delay completion by up to a further six months.
> 
> When the units were incomplete at the beginning of 2009 I attempted to exercise my right to terminate the agreements and get my money back but was thwarted by the developer claiming Force Majeure (also known as the Dubai get-out), despite there having been no wars, earthquakes, floods or other emergencies beyond the anticipation or control of both parties, which is the normal definition of FM.
> 
> Under the terms of the contracts, even when a state of FM had been called by the developer, purchasers were entitled to terminate the agreements if a further six-month delay took place, i.e. if completion was extended beyond the end of June 2009. The units were not ready by that time, so I and a number of others issued termination notices.
> 
> The developer responded by providing a legal opinion from a Dubai-based law firm stating that while the contract included a right to terminate, it did not explicitly state that terminating the agreements would result in monies being refunded - in other words, unless I withdrew my termination notice they would keep both the partially-completed apartments and my money.
> 
> At that point, I came onto this forum to encourage my fellow investors to co-operate with me in putting together a dossier of information and case studies about the developer's conduct which I would distribute to broadcasters and national newspapers in the UK. I should probably add that I am a former journalist and work with the senior managements of many UK media companies, so I am very well placed to feed stories to people who will use them wisely.
> 
> At the time, the consensus was that it would be unhelpful to rock the boat and that the best outcome would be to wait for the project to be completed. I therefore reverted to the developer and used what little leverage I had to negotiate some kind of settlement. The result is a Settlement Agreement which I have provided below (personal details redacted):
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5612801677/
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5612802167/
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5613382132/
> 
> For those who don't want to wade through all three pages, the short version is that if they were unable to hand the units over by the end of September 2010 I was able to give them a three-month window to either do so or issue a refund.
> 
> Unsurprisingly, I issued a notice of breach on 1 October 2010 and a termination notice on 31 December 2010, having forewarned the developer, some days in advance, that it would be on its way, in order that they could have the funds ready for immediate transfer.
> 
> So I received a full refund, if not on 31 December then in the next 48 hours, right? Not quite. This is a Dubai-based property developer, after all...
> 
> The developer's side of the story is that although the Settlement Agreement did not stipulate it, the Termination Notice had to be worded in a particular way and so they would have to issue me with a new document to sign. And this would have to be approved by RERA before I could have my money back, all of which could take up to three months.
> 
> It was never explained why they could not have created that document and had it approved three months earlier, when I had issued the notice of breach and it was abundantly clear that they were going to be unable to hand over the units by the end of 2010. Had they done so, I could of course have been given my refund on time. Nor was I ever provided with any evidence that their claim that the documentation would have to go to RERA was true. I was therefore left wondering whether an arrangement under which they would have benefited from the use of my money, interest-free, for almost five and a half years wasn't good enough for them and they were trying to find a way to hold on to it for a few months more.
> 
> Eventually I was provided with what they were now calling a Termination Agreement, which included a number of provisions exonerating them from the costs associated with their breach of the Settlement Agreement (such as covering any losses I might sustain as a result of the exchange rate worsening between the end of 2010 and whenever they eventually got round to giving me my money). I disputed these but was told that I would get nothing unless I signed, so I did so. In this Agreement, the developer undertook to pay me what I had invested (AED 2,083,299) by the end of March 2011.
> 
> You would therefore assume that I would have received that amount of money, by the end of March, no? No. Again, were it that simple. To be fair to the developer, it claims to have attempted to send the money on or around the end of March and that the transfer was erroneously returned by an intermediary bank. I have seen a bank transfer request form, but no confirmation from the bank that it was received, and have also seen what purports to be evidence that the transfer was rejected, but it is not clear whether it originated within the bank or was created by someone else.
> 
> After some further exchanges, a payment was sent to my Sterling account on the afternoon of 7 April and received on the 11th. A copy of the redacted bank transfer confirmation is given below:
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5615928789/
> 
> As you can see, I received the sum of £334,526.84. According to exchange rate specialist xe.com, the mid-market exchange rate on the day on which the money was sent was 5.99, which would have resulted in a payment of £347.796. So there was a shortfall of more than £13,000. More to the point, the rate on the day on which I would have been able to convert the money, had the developer not breached the Settlement Agreement, was 5.70, which would have given me £353,101 - a difference of almost £31,000. I also think it is reasonable to expect the developer to pay me interest on the capital, having deprived me of my money for almost three and a half months beyond the date on which the debt fell due. What do we think would be a reasonable interest rate to lend to a Dubai-based developer in the current climate - especially one that has failed to pay a debt on time?
> 
> If you read through the Settlement Agreement, you will see that it obliges me to keep that Agreement confidential. However, the developer has placed itself in unremedied breach of that contract, so I do not consider myself bound by its provisions. Moreover, the Agreement is clearly bound by the laws and courts of the United Arab Emirates. Speaking generally, and not specifically about Select Group, for the past few years developers in Dubai have relied on the challenges implicit in pursuing debts and enforcing contracts via the judicial system of that emirate to avoid honouring their own obligations. The general principle has been that whoever holds the money has the whip hand, because the difficulties of extracting settlements from counterparties make litigation pointless.
> 
> For once, the tables have been turned, because I have received perhaps 90 percent of what I am owed, I am not a UAE citizen, am not UAE resident, and no longer hold any assets in UAE. More to the point, I remain very well equipped to place information in the public domain that could alter the balance of power between the developer and its customers. And I have sufficient understanding of the laws of libel, defamation and malicious falsehood to ensure that nothing I publish is remotely actionable - even to the extent of emailing Rahail Aslam and his lawyer, Richard Bell at Clyde & Co, in advance of posting with the information I intend to share, giving them ample opportunity to correct any material inaccuracies (I should point out that everything in this message has been cleared in this way).
> 
> I draw three conclusions from the experiences described above:
> 
> 1. The developer clearly breached its undertaking to me in the Settlement Agreement, paying me too little and too late. Potential customers and suppliers may wish to draw their own conclusions before deciding whether or not to do business with it, or its parent company, Select Group Limited;
> 
> 2. Notwithstanding the above, the developer clearly recognises my ability to publicise its actions - why else would it have entered into the Settlement Agreement in the first place?
> 
> 3. Having now got back much of what I was owed, and tried and failed to get the developer to pay me the rest, I have nothing to gain or lose from disregarding the Settlement Agreement
> 
> I have therefore decided to begin a process of placing the developer's actions in a media spotlight in the UK, in the hope that the Dubai government will recognise that its conduct and the challenges in obtaining remedies via the courts in that jurisdiction have combined to create a situation that threatens inward investment and the country's reputation with a major trading partner, which can best be remedied by ensuring that the company is held to its promises and, where breaches have taken place, it puts its hand in its pocket to do the right thing.
> 
> In the first phase of this process I would like to hear from anyone else that has entered into any kind of Settlement Agreement with Select Group or any of its subsidiaries. If so, was the agreement honoured? I would also like to hear - by email, not publicly at this stage - from anyone who has any information (with evidence, I am not interested in speculation) they wish to share with me about the group having breached any other contracts or displayed evidence of solvency issues. My email is [email protected].
> 
> At a future date, probably this time next week, I will move forward to ask for others who feel they have been wronged by the Group and wish to participate in a PR campaign seeking redress to make themselves known to me. This applies across all of the Group's projects, including The Point, Yacht Bay, Royal Oceanic, The Torch, Bay Central, Botanica, West Avenue, Pacific and Aquitainia (The World).


----------



## 234sale

Please No,, 

We have these discussions in the Torch Thread,, not both


----------



## Mistermark

234sale said:


> Please No,,
> 
> We have these discussions in the Torch Thread,, not both


I've put it here for two reasons: first, it relates to investment, rather than construction or architecture; and second, it is pertinent to all developments by Select Group, and not just The Torch.


----------



## johnnyinspain

EXCELLENT post. Maybe now finally these sharks will start to get what's been coming to them for some time. I also hope this gives many of the other investors that have clearly been totally RIPPED OFF by these awful people some hope. Well done my friend!!



Mistermark said:


> Regular visitors to this forum may be aware that I contracted to buy two apartments in The Torch, Dubai Marina, from developer Torch Select Limited - a division of Select Group Limited, in the summer of 2005 and a third unit the following year. The units were due to be delivered by the end of June 2008, with a contractual right for the developer to delay completion by up to a further six months.
> 
> At a future date, probably this time next week, I will move forward to ask for others who feel they have been wronged by the Group and wish to participate in a PR campaign seeking redress to make themselves known to me. This applies across all of the Group's projects, including The Point, Yacht Bay, Royal Oceanic, The Torch, Bay Central, Botanica, West Avenue, Pacific and Aquitainia (The World).


----------



## pisandre

234sale said:


> Been offered many other jobs, Banking, Defence, Planning, Legal and Automotive..
> 
> Job's market's good if you have local knowledge..


234sale are you magician? How come are you able to get proposals from so different fields? Is it simply because you are British? Most of friends and colleagues are struggling to get another job.


----------



## Morrismarina

Yeah...... he's also been offered brain surgeon, rocket engineer, astronaut, nuclear physicist, etc, etc. :lol:





(only joking )


----------



## 234sale

^^ Dubai is about Networking,, it's still who you know,, but if you also have the education and experience then you can open many doors for yourself. I am a Jack of all trades and that’s good enough for most out here.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*For Real Estate, Investors from Mumbai Prefer Dubai*

Mumbai real estate prices have been on a tear lately, with the city now around 50% more expensive than that capitalist Arab mecca of Dubai. Dubai has been the traditional second home for rich Indian investors and now that trend is accelerating with Dubai offering some bargains following the real estate slump there.

http://blogs.forbes.com/kenrapoza/2011/04/22/for-real-estate-investors-from-mumbai-prefer-dubai/


----------



## rags

Dubai_Steve said:


> Mumbai real estate prices have been on a tear lately, with the city now around 50% more expensive than that capitalist Arab mecca of Dubai. Dubai has been the traditional second home for rich Indian investors and now that trend is accelerating with Dubai offering some bargains following the real estate slump there.
> 
> http://blogs.forbes.com/kenrapoza/2011/04/22/for-real-estate-investors-from-mumbai-prefer-dubai/


Just so that you know, the developers are finding it a bit more difficult to sell apts in Bombay of late. The prices are expected to come down by about 20%-30% this year. I concede though that this is on the back of a phenomenal increase in prices last year- many areas to the tune of even 50%-80%.


----------



## TerryPop

FYI

WAM (where you took this article from) is a 'paid for' press release operation

Its fine but don't use it to make important investment decisions (AMEInfo the same)

Also worth noting others like the Gulf News have examples of being less then impartial so again, when making an investment decision probably best to go a bit further a field.






I Know said:


> WAM Dubai, 22 April 2011 (WAM) -- Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum received at Al Bahr Palace in the presence of H.H. Sheikh Maktoum bin Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Deputy Ruler of Dubai, CEOs of Arab and international companies operating in the UAE in different investment, trade, industrial, financial, tourist, media and educational sectors.
> 
> Sheikh Mohammed assured himself of their professional, living and social conditions and affirmed to them that :'' Our State is faring well and our community is open to others from all spectrum of races and faiths who are pursuing justice, stability, co-existence, security and tolerance.
> 
> Sheikh Mohammed said he was pleased to see that huge crowd of of companies, businessmen and investors working and living with their families under the wing of the UAE community which preserves its genuine Arab and Islamic roots and extends its sight and hands to other cultures and civilisations and let them experience our culture, civilisation and humanity.
> 
> Full Article - http://www.wam.ae/servlet/Satellite..._E_Layout&parent=Query&parentid=1135099399852


----------



## Philippa C

Mistermark said:


> Regular visitors to this forum may be aware that I contracted to buy two apartments in The Torch, Dubai Marina, from developer Torch Select Limited - a division of Select Group Limited, in the summer of 2005 and a third unit the following year. The units were due to be delivered by the end of June 2008, with a contractual right for the developer to delay completion by up to a further six months.
> 
> 
> Well done on what you've achieved so far. I admire your tenacity, meticulous approach and the huge amount of time you have obviously put into this.
> 
> If you have used a UAE law firm, would you please give the name and contact detials, by pm if you prefer.


----------



## Mistermark

Philippa C said:


> Mistermark said:
> 
> 
> 
> Regular visitors to this forum may be aware that I contracted to buy two apartments in The Torch, Dubai Marina, from developer Torch Select Limited - a division of Select Group Limited, in the summer of 2005 and a third unit the following year. The units were due to be delivered by the end of June 2008, with a contractual right for the developer to delay completion by up to a further six months.
> 
> 
> Well done on what you've achieved so far. I admire your tenacity, meticulous approach and the huge amount of time you have obviously put into this.
> 
> If you have used a UAE law firm, would you please give the name and contact detials, by pm if you prefer.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the consensus opinion when asking for legal advice in Dubai is that the judicial system in the emirate is not up to the task of obtaining remedies in civil cases. I got what I got by making it clear that I would put the company's actions into the public domain in the UK, working with certain media outlets. The one thing SG fears is humiliating the Dubai government.
> 
> SG being SG they paid me late, and short-changed me. Which is why I posted what I did yesterday. Next Friday I will begin the process of appealing for others who feel they have been wronged by Select Group to come forward with their case studies so I can use them in the media.
Click to expand...


----------



## 234sale

Mistermark said:


> Philippa C said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the consensus opinion when asking for legal advice in Dubai is that the judicial system in the emirate is not up to the task of obtaining remedies in civil cases. I got what I got by making it clear that I would put the company's actions into the public domain in the UK, working with certain media outlets. The one thing SG fears is humiliating the Dubai government.
> 
> SG being SG they paid me late, and short-changed me. Which is why I posted what I did yesterday. Next Friday I will begin the process of appealing for others who feel they have been wronged by Select Group to come forward with their case studies so I can use them in the media.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you load the gun, you can't expect the amigo to dance...
Click to expand...


----------



## Philippa C

Mistermark said:


> Philippa C said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the consensus opinion when asking for legal advice in Dubai is that the judicial system in the emirate is not up to the task of obtaining remedies in civil cases. I got what I got by making it clear that I would put the company's actions into the public domain in the UK, working with certain media outlets. The one thing SG fears is humiliating the Dubai government.
> 
> SG being SG they paid me late, and short-changed me. Which is why I posted what I did yesterday. Next Friday I will begin the process of appealing for others who feel they have been wronged by Select Group to come forward with their case studies so I can use them in the media.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm even more impressed that you managed to do it all yourself without lawyers!
> 
> We've spoken to one lawyer who wanted what we considered very high fees with 70% up front!
Click to expand...


----------



## agod

At the time, my legal advice was just the same as what Mark had, just not worth it, of course two years on its a whole new ball game, as the changing face of Dubai evolves, with new laws, and controls, as I said previosly, Mark had the Power of the Press behind him.

Al


----------



## Imre




----------



## chefdude

234sale said:


> S03 E19 Fringe... lol


I just watched that episode yesterday but didn't see that scene, where was it in the program?


----------



## chefdude

Sorry scrub that last comment I paused through the animation scene again and its at 22 min 50 secs when they look off the roof of the twin towers.


----------



## foxy

Why is the Torch thread closed?


----------



## flashinglights

foxy said:


> Why is the Torch thread closed?


good question... it was up to page 649 this morning. didn't read it. surprised to see it only at 648, then realised it was locked!


----------



## mrobbie

Just to clarify, the wording on the additional clause reads;

"Should the tenant wish to Leave or renew the leased premises *at the expiry date,* he shall give written notice to that effect to the landlord three months (90 days) in advance prior to the Expiry date of the rental contract"

This was a clause added by them...


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

Emirates 24|7 this week carried a report about the disclosure statements developers have to send to investors. The article says that the Dubai Land Department is now instructing developers to start sending disclosure statements to all investors in projects that are under construction.

The move actually comes more than a month after the cut-off date for the implementation of the law for disclosure statements (part of the Strata law). In fact as early as September 2010, the Land Department said that developers will have to provide their investors with an extensive and detailed statement of the project when selling units in Jointly Owned Property (JOP). The law, which was to be enforced from January 13th 2011, was especially required for those investors buying off plan. If the developer was unable to provide the investor with such a statement, or if their statement was either incomplete or inaccurate, then the developer would have to pay a compensation to the investor as per the law.

Unsurprisingly (to those who know the industry), more than a month after the deadline has passed a lot of developers are still not abiding by the legislation. It will be interesting to see how they respond to the Land Department’s latest orders; in the meantime, unfortunately, a lot of investors are still not insisting on receiving disclosure statements before making payments on their purchases – or so Emirates 24|7 reports.

The reason? Apparently investors aren’t aware that the law exists. “Buyers are not asking us about any disclosure statements. We still just need the no-objection certificate from the developer to register the property with the Land Department,” one property agent told Emirates 24|7.

Arguing for better protection and more rights as investor becomes a much tougher case to push forward when basic precautionary steps aren’t being taken by the investors themselves. Investors must accept a degree of responsibility, and should try and maximize the amount of protection that is currently given (even though it may not be enough).

So if you are considering investing in a JOP in Dubai, or have done so, please do familiarize yourself with the laws here and ensure that before you sign on the dotted line or hand over more cash, your rights as an investor are being respected.

http://www.kippreport.com/2011/02/help-for-those-who-help-themselves/


----------



## Porcello

mrobbie said:


> Just to clarify, the wording on the additional clause reads;
> 
> "Should the tenant wish to Leave or renew the leased premises *at the expiry date,* he shall give written notice to that effect to the landlord three months (90 days) in advance prior to the Expiry date of the rental contract"
> 
> This was a clause added by them...


Impossible to enforce. Also, the consequences for breaching are not specified. The only thing you can do is to keep the deposit mentioning this clause, if you wish. Other than this, nothing.

Unless they have given you post dated cheques for the new year at the time of the renewal confirmation. In that case you can force them to stay.


----------



## jasper1000

I got an e mail from DEC on the 19th April with upto date pics of work on Lawns 4

E mail reads 

Dear Sir/ Madam, 

We thank you for your continued patronage to our above project at Jumeriah Village and would like to update you with the project progress till date.

Pleased be informed you that we have successfully resumed work on the Raft Foundation. Please find attached the latest pictures.

For further details, please refer to our website www.dheerajeastcoast.com

We shall be sharing with you further updates on the project from time to time.

Thank you once again for your cooperation

The pics show the big whole lined with scaffolding and men spraying the basement


----------



## rags

Dubai fraud verdict raises legal process fears
By Simeon Kerr 

Published: April 28 2011 03:58 | Last updated: April 28 2011 03:58

In one of the emirate’s most high-profile trials, a Dubai court has found six of seven defendants guilty of defrauding an Islamic bank, sentencing them to 10 years in prison and imposing a collective fine of $1bn.

The defendants are expected to file an appeal against their conviction at the court of first instance over an alleged $501m fraud against the region’s oldest Islamic bank. 

They are due to pay $500m in a fine and $500m in compensation to DIB, according to lawyers who saw the written judgment. The sentence handed down on Wednesday, which also includes deportation, comes after three years of detention for five of the seven defendants, two of whom have been found guilty in absentia. If upheld after appeal, the four defendants in custody will have to raise $1bn or face further detention. 

The length of the proceedings, during which all attempts to secure bail were denied, has sparked concerns among lawyers and raised questions about the legal process in Dubai. Friends of the defendants described the sentence as “potentially horrendous” and “vindictive”.

The case emerged as one of the landmark cases in the government’s anti-corruption clampdown launched in 2008 towards the end of Dubai’s real estate boom and then extended across the government as the financial crisis hit the emirate hard. The drive was lauded by some as an attempt to clean up corruption within finance and property, but the broader crackdown after the crash has also been criticised amid perceptions that it had turned into a politically charged witch-hunt against some Dubai officials. 

The judge gave guilty verdicts to Charles Ridley and Ryan Cornelius, two British businessmen; and Omair Mooraj and Rifatul-Islam Usmani, both DIB executives from Pakistan, along with two others in absentia. 

The seventh defendant, Arthur Fitzwilliam, a British developer, was acquitted and is set to be released from prison after three years in custody. 

Mr Fitzwilliam had pledged his real estate project, the Plantation, as collateral against a restructured loan between DIB and CCH International. The loan became the subject of the fraud allegations. 

The public prosecution argued that the defendants defrauded DIB of $501m through bogus transactions at companies linked to CCH International, a trade finance company. The Pakistani bankers were accused of taking money to facilitate the alleged fraud. The defendants all pleaded not guilty and are expected to appeal.

They have said it related to a loan of $501m that was restructured by agreement with the bank in 2007, which they had been repaying on time until they were arrested. They also claim the bank has never booked any loss for the alleged fraud. 

DIB also foreclosed on the Plantation project in 2008 before the real estate market collapsed, taking ownership of the equestrian development when it was worth on some estimates more than $1bn, much more than the value of the loan. 

However, DIB management has testified that the decision by the former board to restructure the loan was illegal. 

The bank declined to comment on the verdict. 

Mr Mooraj, who had been running JPMorgan’s country office when he was arrested in 2008, joined DIB in 2005 after the alleged fraud began. 

His lawyer, Habib al-Mulla, last year demanded that the authorities reinvestigate the role of Mohammed bin Kharbash, DIB’s former chairman, and other executives. 

Mr al-Mulla accused these executives and the government’s audit department of conspiring to conceal the origins of the alleged fraud. The judge sent the case back for further investigation. 

But the prosecution returned the file to court under a new judge, with amended charges that defined the Pakistani bankers as public servants and so liable to harsher punishment. The government has a 30 per cent stake in the lender.

The original anti-corruption investigation had focused on Mr Kharbash, a former finance minister and executive at several state-linked companies, but no charges were brought in relation to DIB. 

He has pleaded innocent at a separate trial to alleged embezzlement at property company Deyaar, a DIB unit
.


----------



## True Blue

Porcello said:


> Impossible to enforce. Also, the consequences for breaching are not specified. The only thing you can do is to keep the deposit mentioning this clause, if you wish. Other than this, nothing.
> 
> Unless they have given you post dated cheques for the new year at the time of the renewal confirmation. In that case you can force them to stay.


The lesson is that within 60 days of renewal get your tenant to agree and sign a new contract and handover the post dated cheques. That will expose the real intention to stay or go.

The landlord must also serve a clearly detailed notice as to why the deposit will not be refunded as the tenants will fight for their money back. Be prepared to attend a committee hearing and state your case.


----------



## beer51

Thanks to all for the feed back on ejari system. The only agent (far as i am aware) are Landmark Properties who do the ejari registration but they would not reply to emails (typical of Dubais estate agents). I was more than happy to pay the cost rather than the fine of AED 50K/


----------



## True Blue

Not likely you will be fined as there must be 90% tenancies unregistered at present. Rera need to make the process more accessable if they want us to use it.


----------



## sgn7200

salum2009 said:


> Hey all victims of DEC investments!
> 
> I have also invested in LAWNS V and have had zero feedback from DECsince 2009! Even speaking to them directly , all they say is they are starting foundations!! We have invested alot money in this and also were paying a mortgage to it (as we trusted the completion date) and we were also paying rent on where we are living! RERA did try and assit us ,setting up meetings with DEC,however no representative from DECcame to the meetings. It so frustrating. We don't even want the apartment now, we just want our money back!
> Please if there is anyone else out there suffering like us let try organise a group 'attack' (nicest word i could use) to get what us investors are entitled to. If we have enough of us i will set up a page on F'book also to get as many of us involved as possible. Agroup approach should be much more effective than individually...
> Great to hear from you all!


It is a pity DEC have no respect for RERA let alone we customers. Having agreed to a meeting with you under the good offices of RERA and then not turning up for the meeting smacks of unprofessionalism. Why can's RERA take DEC to task for showing contempt of the prestigious body like RERA. What is the use of having a body like RERA which has no teeth. Such weakness on the part of RERA is doing a lot of damage to the confidence which foreign investors had in Dubai in the past. It will be so difficult to get that confidence back unless RERA gets its act together. DEC appear to be a bunch of car boys and it is a shame we have trusted them with our hard earned finances. I believe everyone will agree with you that we should act together to make DEC act honourably. I suggest we should all Email RERA CEO about false promises of DEC and their countless lies which are causing untold miseries to us honest and law abiding citizens of the world. This is an excellent idea and I urge everyone of you to feed us with any information you have. Those of you, who are in or around Dubai or visiting Dubai, please visit the sites of Lawns IV and V and tell us what is the truth in their statements.


----------



## sgn7200

GTR11 said:


> You need to note that Rera has no respect for Rera and Dubai has no respect for investors, the realestate problems are not just 1, 2 or 3 problems, their is a dozen problems which go hand in hand to make Dubai this unstable corrupt property market.
> 
> For example:
> 
> 1) The Realestate laws are very weak
> 2) The current laws are vague
> 3) Their is little to no enforcment of current laws
> 4) The current laws do not protect investors what so ever
> 5) Their is no class action law suits allowed
> 6) Their is a huge huge huge huge visa problem
> 7) Rera employees and CEO do not do anything to help anyone
> 8) the courts simply do not work
> 9) The Escrow accounts have been introduced just within the past couple of years while Dubais property market has been open for over a decade
> 10) current laws do not make developers deposit money obtained from investors pre 2007 to be deposited in post 2007 escrow account which means billions of dollars can be in personal accounts of developer excecutives and they flee dubai
> 
> 
> I have just listed 10 major problems in Dubai, the real list of problems are much more than 10, solving one wont do anyone any good, these problems need to be sorted out together. The problems in Dubai are like swiss cheese, you solve one problem and another 100 problems are left.
> 
> In conclusion Dubai needs an effective government which in my opinion will not happen in my life time.
> 
> You cant just blame Rera or the developer or the Sheikh, its not one problem as I said above, a dozen issues need to be fixed in order for the REAL problems to go away, fixing one problem is like sweeping dirt under a rug , just a cover up not a solution . These problems have been plaguing the middle east for thousands of years.
> 
> P.S I am not a property speculator or flipper, I invested as an end user and will continue to pay for my units in many developments regardless of market conditions as I am not looking to make a quick buck, rather for family use. Problem is developers dont seem to want to build or give money back, even without interest


Nobody is denying there is a problem in Dubai. We cannot however close our eyes to the fact that we have invested in Dubai and we have a vested interest in seeing things improve. We have to try to be part of a solution rather than stay as part of a problem. Turning to specifics, look around Lawns IV and V, you will find several buildings from Damac and others ready to move in. If they can do it, surely DEC can do it provided ofcourse they have not shifted our money to build in Mumbai and Melbourne. RERA Chief often makes bold statements to the Press. So bring the problem to his notice and put some weight on your argument. I agree we cannot sove the problem of Dubai as a whole. However, if we concentrate on DEC, we can achieve a solution, we must achieve a solution because we need a solution. You need to have courage of conviction. This is an EXCELLENT FORUM and I urge all of you to air your grievances and make DEC do things for which they have been paid. RERA can bite DEC if they want to and I am sure if you are determined to get value for the money you have paid you will agree with me you need to keep on asking yourself "what have you done today to get closer to your aim" and your aim is to get DEC to deliver. Air your views in this FORUM, to the PRESS and above all both to DEC and RERA. DO NOT accept the argument "you cannot do anything" and go to "Sleep Mode".


----------



## Imre

*World's tallest residential tower set to welcome occupants soon*

*The Torch in Dubai Marina overtakes Q1 Tower in Australia*










Dubai: Dubai's property market has had its share of tall claims from developers, with many of them never making it beyond the drawing board. But this developer has certainly delivered on its promise.

At 348 metres and 86 floors, The Torch in Dubai Marina has won formal recognition as the world's tallest residential tower, surpassing the earlier claimant, the Q1 Tower in Australia's Gold Coast (323 metres).

To lay claim to the title, The Torch met the requirement set by the likes of Emporis Standards Committee and the Council on Tall Building and Urban Habitat, in that a building should at least have 90 per cent residential use to qualify.

The Torch's newfound status sits well with what Dubai and its towers have achieved in the recent past, most notably by the Burj Khalifa's 828 metres. In fact, Dubai has got strong representation in the Emporis Standards Committee's list of the world's tallest residential towers.

The Torch, a development by UK-based Select Group, is set to take in its first residents next month. While chuffed at the new accolade, the developer is also sitting pretty as more than 80 per cent of the 676 apartment units have buyers.

The units carry a price tag of Dh1,000 a square foot and up. So what made investors hold on in a soft market?

Prime location

"The prime location and design was the key offering, in addition to us offering lengthy payment plans beyond the completion dates," said Rahail Eslam, CEO. "If we look at Torch prices when we originally sold, they are still resilient in today's market.

"The properties were sold at reasonable levels and we had active construction throughout the tough economic period. All of these taken together certainly contributed in retaining the majority of the investors."

According to a spokesperson at Better Homes' Dubai Marina office, quality builds have been able to hold their market value, currently averaging around Dh1,100-Dh1,200 a square foot, "while poorly constructed properties are having a harder time matching market rates".

The investments were substantial at Dh665 million. "The group has invested substantial equity to complete our projects," said Eslam.

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...-tower-set-to-welcome-occupants-soon-1.800497


----------



## Wac

I have invested in Lawns II. I received reply to my email from Mr. Marwan (CEO RERA) quote: *My advice to you regarding DEC is to write to them to make sure that your property is registered with land dept and get proof of that or ask them to move you to other property within your budget.* 
The above reply does not solve anything for me. DEC once offered me to buy a mercedes (two bed) when I can only afford to have a bicycle (studio).


----------



## Imre

*Dubai’s new world record - The Torch*

*The 86-storey tower at Dubai Marina is 348m tall and 25m higher than Q1 Tower of Gold Coast in Australia, the previous record holder*

By StaffPublished Saturday, April 30, 2011 

Dubai has yet another world record in its name - the world’s tallest residential tower - ‘The Torch'.

Acording to a report in Khaleej Times, the 86-storey tower at Dubai Marina is 348 metres tall and 25 metres higher than Q1 Tower of Gold Coast in Australia, the previous holder of this distinction.

The tower is ready for handover next month. It comprises 676 apartments, of which 90 per cent has been sold at prices ranging from Dh800 to Dh1,000 per square foot.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/dubai-s-new-world-record-the-torch-2011-04-30-1.386972


----------



## noir-dresses

Lets not forget we also lost a world record to Hong Kong, worlds tallest hotel.

Lets get that back.


----------



## skippy

Hi rallyman how about your litigation against Aci , have you received some money ? Or do you look like recieveing anything?


----------



## bizzybonita

Emaar Properties records first quarter 2011 net profit of AED 421 million (US$ 115 million)

Dubai, UAE,
Led by project deliveries in the UAE and international markets, and the robust performance of its hospitality & leisure and shopping malls & retail businesses, Emaar Properties PJSC recorded a net profit of AED 421 million (US$ 115 million) in the first quarter of 2011 and a revenue of AED 1.983 billion (US$ 540 million). 

First quarter results were supported by the continued delivery of residential units in Burj Khalifa in Dubai and the handover of commercial offices in The Eighth Gate, Syria, an integrated project billed to become the financial nerve centre of the country. *The company also commenced delivery of one of its premium commercial projects - Boulevard Plaza within Downtown Dubai during this quarter.*
The company handed over approximately 270 units during the quarter as compared to more than 1,300 and 1,000 units during the first and fourth quarters of 2010 respectively. However, due to higher margins recorded on the deliveries and the hospitality and malls businesses, the gross margins increased significantly as compared to first and fourth quarters of 2010. This resulted in the gross profit being at similar levels to the compared quarters of last year. 

Emaar’s business subsidiaries contributed to the company’s revenue stream with the shopping malls & retail business demonstrating strong growth trends. The Dubai Mall, the flagship development of Emaar Malls Group, reported first quarter 2011 footfall of 13.5 million visitors – the highest-ever quarterly performance since its opening in November 2008. Emaar Hospitality Group, the hospitality & leisure subsidiary, also recorded positive growth with its flagship Address Hotels + Resorts recording an average occupancy of 87 per cent in the first quarter. 

Mr. Mohamed Alabbar, Chairman, Emaar Properties, said the first quarter performance underlines the company’s strategy to focus on project delivery and strengthening recurring revenue streams from its shopping mall and hospitality businesses. 

"Emaar welcomed 2011 with the spectacular Burj Khalifa New Year’s Eve gala attended by over 600,000 people, establishing Downtown Dubai as a global benchmark in lifestyle destination development. Our flagship project is a perfect complement to Dubai’s growth outlook centered on the traditional sectors of retail, hospitality and tourism, led by the vision of His Highness Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, UAE Vice President & Prime Minister and the Ruler of Dubai."

He added: "Emaar will continue to explore growth opportunities in key emerging markets, where our emphasis will be to create dynamic socio-economic growth engines like Downtown Dubai that create jobs, support ancillary industries and meet lifestyle aspirations."

In addition to the handover of homes in Burj Khalifa, in January 2011 Emaar opened one of the world’s highest restaurants, At.mosphere, located on Level 122 of the world’s tallest building. The restaurant further builds on the Lifestyle Dining division of Emaar Hospitality Group. 

In The Dubai Mall, KidZania®, the unique children's city managed by Emaar Retail LLC, recorded positive growth, hosting more than 500,000 visitors since opening a year ago, demonstrating the competencies of the company in developing vibrant leisure destinations. 

In international markets, Emaar is fast progressing on a range of projects that will be delivered in the coming months. These include Jeddah Gate and Al Khobar Lakes in Saudi Arabia by Emaar Middle East; and Uptown Cairo and Marassi in Egypt. Other countries where Emaar’s operations will further contribute to its revenue streams this year include Jordan, India, Pakistan and Turkey. 

This year, Emaar further demonstrated its commitment to quality with Emaar Middle East’s Al Khobar Lakes development winning the Saudi BuildInfra Awards for ‘Best Retail Project’ at the Building & Infrastructure Summit. 

Emaar Properties was also honoured by the Emirates Securities and Commodities Authority (SCA) for implementing and complying with the new UAE Code of Governance within the stipulated timeframe.

http://www.emaar.com/index.aspx?page=press-release-details&id=1189


----------



## diku

How much do you think for the expences while registering thru agency?
Do you recommend any?



Imre said:


> All tenancy contracts should be registered with Ejari and this is the landlord responsibility.
> 
> No one checking this now but in the future will be interesting..
> 
> Agencies , property management companies can do it also but you have to pay some fee for it.


----------



## Imre

diku said:


> How much do you think for the expences while registering thru agency?
> Do you recommend any?



We will charge 350 dhs, I think thats not bad.


----------



## Imre

Imre said:


> *Dubai’s new world record - The Torch*
> 
> *The 86-storey tower at Dubai Marina is 348m tall and 25m higher than Q1 Tower of Gold Coast in Australia, the previous record holder*
> 
> By StaffPublished Saturday, April 30, 2011
> 
> Dubai has yet another world record in its name - the world’s tallest residential tower - ‘The Torch'.
> 
> Acording to a report in Khaleej Times, the 86-storey tower at Dubai Marina is 348 metres tall and 25 metres higher than Q1 Tower of Gold Coast in Australia, the previous holder of this distinction.
> 
> The tower is ready for handover next month. It comprises 676 apartments, of which 90 per cent has been sold at prices ranging from Dh800 to Dh1,000 per square foot.
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/dubai-s-new-world-record-the-torch-2011-04-30-1.386972


*New record for Dubai: 23 Marina is the world's tallest residential tower*

*Tower surpasses The Torch by almost 47 metres; Hircon to begin handover from August*

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Sunday, May 01, 2011 


Come August, Hircon International, a Dubai-based developer, will commence handover of 23 Marina, a 395-metre tower in Dubai Marina, which will then surpass The Torch as the world’s tallest residential tower by almost 47 metres.

“We have got the utility connections… we will have temporary power connection by next week. Snagging notice has been send to investors and we expect residents to move into the apartments by August,” Darshan Hiranandani, Director, Hircon International, told Emirates 24|7.

The 90-storey tower comprises 288 apartments and three penthouses. It has two and three-bedroom apartments and four-bedroom duplexes, ranging from 1,709 sq ft to 5,775 sq ft.

Earlier this week, Select Group, a private property developer, said it will begin handover of The Torch tower, a 348 metres (1,142 ft), 86-storey residential tower, in Dubai Marina from May.

It beat Q1 Tower off Gold Coast, Australia, (323 metres, 1,058 ft) to clinch the title for the world’s tallest residential tower.

In November, Tameer Holding President Federico Tauber told this website that the 107-storey Princess Tower and 91-storey Elite Residence in Dubai Marina will be handed over in the fourth quarter. The 414-metre tower has 763 units, while the latter 381-metre tower has 696 units.

According to Hiranandani, 23 Marina is likely to have an occupancy rate of between 50 and 60 per cent, as most of the apartments have been bought by end-users.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...tallest-residential-tower-2011-05-01-1.387403

:lol::lol:


----------



## Imre

*Dubai real estate market witnesses an increase in mortgage buying*

*Market dominated by end users as finance is readily available from banks at attractive rates*

By Parag Deulgaonkar , May 01, 2011 

The number of cash buyers in Dubai has reduced significantly as the market now driven by end users and home finance being readily available, according to experts.

“The market is now being dominated by end users rather than speculators. This is coupled with the fact that finance is now more readily available from banks at attractive rates. So I assume that the number of cash purchasers in the market has reduced,” Gregory Antioch, Head of Residential Sales, Cluttons Dubai, told Emirates 24|7.

“However, against this view, investors from trouble hit areas around the region such as Bahrain, Egypt and Syria may be wanting to take their cash out of these countries and deposit them in real estate here in Dubai.”

Faisal Baig, Director, PropSquare Real Estate, agreed that not many transactions are being done by cash buyers. “Yes, we hardly see cash buyers in the market,” he said.

According to Will Jones, Dubai Sales & Leasing Director, Elysian Real Estate, majority of buyers and investors are showing a mixed trend of choosing to pay cash or applying for mortgages.

He, however, added that with confidence being restored slowly, cash is starting to flow in from confident investors from all over the globe, including new found interest from the Asian markets.

“The phrase 'cash is king' still holds sway in Dubai as being the forefront for buyers and brokers alone to start negotiations with ‘the interested party is a cash buyer.’ However, this does not always result in a deal being conducted and concluded quickly, with many different factors holding up transactions throughout the process.”


http://www.emirates247.com/property...crease-in-mortgage-buying-2011-05-01-1.387271


----------



## Freestyler

bizzybonita said:


> Emaar Properties records first quarter 2011 net profit...



What the article doesn't say is that their first quarter 2011 profit is 44% less than 2010 profit. Q1 2010 profit was 760million approximately.


----------



## rallyman

*skippy*

no money yet but for what its worth we won again at the highest court in the land !! .... all it means so far is the courts and lawyers got rich ! i will kepp you guys posted ...


----------



## True Blue

I was speaking to one of my tenants in Dubai a few weeks ago and he said his sector (hair and beauty products) has seen an upturn in business. In fact 4 of his staff had resigned to move to his competitors for more money. Things must be good for him as he didn't want to negotiate the rent.


----------



## Richard Head

I Know said:


> 01 May 2011
> Dubai's economy seems to be gaining momentum once again. But is it a temporary bump due to unrest in other parts of the Middle East or is the recovery on sounder footing? And, can Dubai be great again?
> 
> Dubai's economy, which was once the envy of its regional rivals, has struggled since the global financial crisis. But there are many indicators that suggest the emirate's economy has turned a corner.
> 
> While some critics may think Dubai has benefited from a 'flight to quality' as funds, tourists and business opportunities fled from Bahrain and Egypt to Dubai, the resugrence seems to be on sounder footing.
> 
> http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20110501055100



The unrest in the region is relatively new, just a few months old. Not many people have the luxury to be able to uproot and move to a new country overnight. While I can believe that tourists might have changed plans quite quickly, which would at least partially explain why the hotels here are all doing well again, I'm sure it will take many more months to see the true scale of effect of individuals and (more importantly) companies, relocating on a large scale. I think until now we have seen only a small part of the benefit which Dubai might potentially get from the "flight to quality". Or a better phrase for it "flight to safety". 

This, combined with the global economy edging out of recession, and the higher oil prices, could be the catalyst for a much more significant bounce in Dubai. And hopefully not of the dead cat variety. :banana:


----------



## Richard Head

True Blue said:


> I was speaking to one of my tenants in Dubai a few weeks ago and he said his sector (hair and beauty products) has seen an upturn in business. In fact 4 of his staff had resigned to move to his competitors for more money. Things must be good for him as he didn't want to negotiate the rent.


I'm pretty close to a number of high-profile retail brands here that target middle income segments, they are also posting numbers considerably better than same time last year.


----------



## Richard Head

Anyone think that the timely demise of a certain Mr. Bin Laden is in any way significant for Dubai and the broader region? Positive or otherwise.


----------



## bister

Rallyman, well done you brave soul. 
So you won also in Court of Cassation? I can tell you of at least two more cases heading in that direction too. A fellow investor tried for execution after having won his case and the appeal. Now ACI wants to try in Court of Cassation hoping that he will give up or run out of cash. 
How long time did it take you from winning the appeal to get a Cassation verdict?
My case is close to appeal verdict so I would like to understand the timelines.
I have another with another developer with an even more clear case (they defaulted on a buy back agreement for two units). They claimed force majure because of the financia crisis (HAHA yes you heard right). Still the judge calls for an expert to make a report (on the financial crisis being force majure?) and this will take 4 months. They have been sitting on my money for almost 3 years. 
These guys make me sick.


----------



## Imre

Richard Head said:


> Anyone think that the timely demise of a certain Mr. Bin Laden is in any way significant for Dubai and the broader region? Positive or otherwise.


http://gulfnews.com/opinions/columnists/more-questions-than-credible-answers-1.802393


----------



## noir-dresses

Richard Head said:


> Anyone think that the timely demise of a certain Mr. Bin Laden is in any way significant for Dubai and the broader region? Positive or otherwise.


Don't forget that Al Qaida's Gulf Peninsula region is still very strong, and the network has little problem recruiting new members with their twisted ideology.

Its also known that their financial sector uses Dubai.

Your guess is as good as mine what will happen in the UAE.

Notice how Bin Laden had a message stating not so long ago that if any thing happens to him the west will witness massive nuclear destruction.

What's also interesting is they let the Royal Wedding take place last Friday before they nailed him, The CIA admits they were on to Bin Laden months before they took action, and the messengers were being followed years ago.

I'm sure his sleepers all over the world will be a little worried knowing the US have all the hard drives to his computers.


----------



## Monument

*Ejari.ae*

I have been told by my rental agent that, as a landlord, I have to register my new lease under Ejari.

This seems to be impossible for a non-resident. Ejari.ae requires (compulsory) that the landlord register his visa detail and visa expiry date. As a non-resident I don't have a visa and therefore cannot even get past Part 1 on the online registration system. 

Is that correct and how important as a landlord is it to register the tenancy under Ejari (if it were actually possible)?


----------



## beer51

Monument

By law all landlords are suppose to register their property on the ejari system. For you to do the registration you have to go to a training course run by RERA (or land department) alternative is to get your estate agent to do it for you for a small fee. I believe IMRE is charging approx 325AED/. In my opinion IMRE is your best bet.


----------



## Pleth

I Know said:


> Emirates NBD said on Monday that banks must play a key role in reinvigorating the UAE's real estate sector by offering better deals on home loans.
> 
> The country's biggest bank said it was time for banks to take advantage of the "huge potential for growth in home financing".
> 
> Saif Al Mansoori, deputy head, group marketing, Emirates NBD, said in a statement: "There is huge potential for growth in home financing, and we believe it is vital for banks to play an important role in re-energising this sector."
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/banks-urged-play-key-role-in-uae-real-estate-recovery-397428.html


I do not believe this, Emirates Bank won't give loans out at the moment.

I really don't know what is wrong with Emirates NBD Bank hno: They suddenly got this idea that they started to claim bank charges from last year!
So without any warning they took 500 Aed from my account for Aug-September last year. They did not even send me a note saying they took the money.
My collegue has 250 + 480 Aed taken from his account last week, with the text "Bank charges June-July-Aug-September 2010. However after a fight (that took 3 weeks and 2 visits to the bank) he got the money back.
His wife had 200 Aed money taken from her account. Could not get anything back.
Her friend had 200 Aed taken from her account. All charges are from last year even the money was charged in April this year!

On 1st April we transferred (TT) 6.000 Aed to a bank in Europe. But Emirates Bank lost our money and cannot find them! We have filed 2 complaints but nothing helps. We ring them every day, and they say "We will pass the message to this department and call you back". Of course they don't.

PS. I have learned that in Middle East and in India the words "I will call you back" basically means "Get lost, you will never hear from me again"!


----------



## Monument

beer51 said:


> Monument
> 
> By law all landlords are suppose to register their property on the ejari system. For you to do the registration you have to go to a training course run by RERA (or land department) alternative is to get your estate agent to do it for you for a small fee. I believe IMRE is charging approx 325AED/. In my opinion IMRE is your best bet.


Beer51
Thanks for your advise - who are IMRE? - I probably should know this but I have tried to look it up on Google but find nothing relevant.


----------



## Hanna

*IMRE SALT*

Hi 


IMRE SOLT is 12 back from this post (post number 26303)
click on his name and you can post a private message to him
he will contact you the same day no problem great guy.


Deal in confidence



:cheers:














Monument said:


> Beer51
> Thanks for your advise - who are IMRE? - I probably should know this but I have tried to look it up on Google but find nothing relevant.


----------



## True Blue

Monument said:


> Beer51
> Thanks for your advise - who are IMRE? - I probably should know this but I have tried to look it up on Google but find nothing relevant.


I know he's a big guy but no need to use the plural:lol:

Imre is our resident progress recorder and represents a Real Estate company called PropSquare. You can visit their website at www.propsquare.com


----------



## vaksa

True Blue said:


> I know he's a big guy but no need to use the plural:lol:


Imre's posts having grown into an institution on this site, he probably deserves it.


----------



## MarkWass

*IMRE*

Although this site is not supposed to be used as any kind of marketing platform, and we have seen many dodgy attempts by people doing just that on many threads here that have been quickly thwarted by the mods, BUT I for one trust Imre as much as I could anyone ever on an internet forum who I have never met in person, so I think he has definitely earned all our respect and trust. 

Hopefully one day my investments will be finally built one day (insh’allah) and I for one, will certainly have no hesitation in using your advice and services, Imre. As always, thanks Imre for your efforts to provide transparency in a cloudy area.. and thanks for being such a decent bloke, which is in complete contradiction to all this mistrust and shadiness I have generally experienced in the whole unregulated Dubai property ‘thing’.


----------



## Pleth

I agree Mark Wass.


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> I agree Mark Wass.


I don't!

Went out for a drink once with that guy Imre. I never regained consiousness until 3pm the next day. I'll never trust him again.

Eats like a horse also!

:laugh:


----------



## noir-dresses

I also went out with Imre a few times, got say he hogged all the women, and drinks. I couldn't get a word in. :cheers:

That Dirty Dog, what an animal, fun guy to hang out with, its not all about business right Imre ??????? :nuts:


----------



## noir-dresses

I also went out with Imre a few times, got say he hogged all the women, and drinks. I couldn't get a word in. :cheers:

That Dirty Dog, what an animal, fun guy to hang out with, its not all about business right Imre ??????? :nuts:


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> I don't!
> 
> Went out for a drink once with that guy Imre. I never regained consiousness until 3pm the next day. I'll never trust him again.
> 
> Eats like a horse also!
> 
> :laugh:


 :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## TerryPop

Can we make it compulsory that the poster MUST comment and summarise the news article they post.

Its pretty mindless simply posting news articles throughout the day


I want to discuss investment in Dubai 

Google news (to pull out the latest articles) is pretty easy to use.


Maybe explain why each article you post may effect your investment in Dubai?


----------



## noir-dresses

How about you do one post with multiple links I Know.

Like you said, people can choose whether, or not to read your posts, is that fare enough ?


----------



## HGanatra

hi Guys

new to forum.

i like redjay have purchased 2 units within the lago vista development.

i have finally received details of the handover which is likely to be on 17th may 2011 some 3 years later than what i was advised. hugely disappointed!

on my completion statement i have been charged 7000aed per studio for me making delayed payments however damac have been kind enough to offer me compensation of 1750aed for delayed handover! 

it would be good to know what other people have been charged and to see if we can negotiate a price reduction before we send over the final installment. 

not only have we lost out financially due to the delayed handover as the prices have fallen dramatically but we also stand to make very little money by way of rentals. i have been quoted 220000aed if i sold now or 22000aed if i rent!


----------



## Imre

^^

It seems you spend plenty of time to check all Dubai media ,National,Emirates247,Ameinfo,Reuters etc.. and even Youtube

:cheers:


----------



## Kerry Rodgers

*Seasons Credit Note*

Hi there is anyone selling a seasons credit note? please let me know [email protected] thanks

Also has anyone had any confirmation on compensation/refunds etc? thanks


----------



## vaksa

^^
It doesn’t take much time at all if you use an RSS aggregator, like Google Reader for example. Subscribe to the right feeds, and it will take you 5 min a day to go through the day’s headlines. Some are definitely worth the forum’s attention, but I don’t see any need to post all of them here. Anyway, very active posters of the annoying sort tend to disappear fairly quickly. I think I’ve seen several come and go.


----------



## MarkWass

If you set up an alert in google news, on any subject, which having set up a few myself, each take about 15 seconds (once only) to 'create' forever, and you then get 'daily headlines' instantly delivered to your inbox on any subject that contains the relevant keyword. Google lets you set up as many of them as you want.

Perhaps the mods could open a separate thread called 'Instant google dubai property news alerts' or something and then all the manic copy/pasters out there can all compete with each other to see who's the quickest at posting the link on that thread? Others who want to read that thread can then do so if they desire.*

There is occasionally some genuine interesting 'news' which is worth sharing, but more often than not it is just journos conjuring up multiple stories out of very little...


----------



## 234sale

nothing wrong with posting hunderds of articles,, but you need to comment on the article.. otherwise other users will just switch off to your posts.. 

Though the articles where good,, the youtube video was a bit meh..


----------



## noir-dresses

Any body that reads the papers already have access to what he's posting, and some times he's posting old stuff we already know about.

I just skip it, I'm sure every body else does to.


----------



## Imre

*Dubai leasing guide for May*

http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/1.8...ard/file/54B84E9F9C06460DA7C5B12F8DDC8D4A.pdf

:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

Rent wise Imre there is not a big difference between Marina, JBR, and JLT.


----------



## rallyman

the expert report was the thing that made my case ... its vital that you go to the meeting with him prior to his site investigation ....both partys lawyers are invited to this meeting . the time from winning at appeal court to start of cassation was about 6 weeks , and cassation court was 3 months .. i trust this helps


----------



## Imre

*Dubai to launch official property listing website*

Called Simari, it will only allow listed brokers to register properties

May 10, 2011 

“The website is ready and will be launched officially in the coming days. Only listed brokers will be allowed to register properties, be it off plan, or completed units for leasing or selling,” Khalifa Al Suwaidi, CEO, Emirates Real Estate Solutions. 

“We have tested it in the market… a number of brokers are interested in listing with us and this will help bring transparency in the market since the listing will be authentic.”

The listing on the website is free of charge currently and renewable every 30 days.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/dub...-property-listing-website-2011-05-10-1.390956


----------



## Richard Head

I Know said:


> Oversupply in residential units is seen as the main factor behind declines of rents and prices of properties, finds a Dubai Chamber study


Stunning. Can we commission Dubai Chamber to do a study to find out why water is wet?

Can you please stop filling up page after page of this forum with copy / pasted articles that are purely opinions of people with a vested interest in saying certain mind-numbingly obvious things. Go outside, get some fresh air, or a job or something. Kthanxbye. :bash:


----------



## worried4

*Good Stuff*



Richard Head said:


> Stunning. Can we commission Dubai Chamber to do a study to find out why water is wet?
> 
> Can you please stop filling up page after page of this forum with copy / pasted articles that are purely opinions of people with a vested interest in saying certain mind-numbingly obvious things. Go outside, get some fresh air, or a job or something. Kthanxbye. :bash:


This is good stuff from I know. Some of us find this very convenient. We do not know where to get this info, and now it is collated and available. So what is your problem?

I know thank you:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

I wonder if the mods have a SSC required minimum amount of posts per day ?

Good question, I'm sure Sale n Alt could answer that, I'm interested.


----------



## True Blue

amplesou said:


> Paste and copying press stuff is a cop out in my book,*easiest way to get posts under your belt to gain recognition on here *,can,t be any other reason imop.
> 
> some of this stuff is good but why post with no additional input from poster is this case "I KNOW"
> 
> i am sure it would be better if post had a point to it then underscored by link to said press aticle !
> 
> (could be Mods trying to keep threads alive after all ssc needs advertising revenue and this must be measured every now and then!:nuts
> 
> *regulars here don't like it *...and will comment like me....


Nope! Just critising with out being practical is probably an easier way to bump up post count. 

Have you conducted a survey of the regulars to arrive at your opinion? Only the people who are annoyed will comment, people who are happy or not bothered will tend to,.......not bother!

I personally don't mind it, but I did like the suggestion of opening a sticky thread for investment related news feedkay:


----------



## Imre

^^

Great article!


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> Be honest, off plans are now dead and buried! No one in their right mind would try and launch a new project in Dubai unless it had a very unique and genuine USP, and could be at least 50% built from developers funds.
> 
> The final comment is a joke! there are many development zones that are near completed and still lack infrastructure, hospitals etc. So he wants us to believe in future this will all be established first before they will allow residential units to be constructed. Well maybe that answers why nothing has been built on Palm Jebel Ali, they are getting the hospitals and schools done first.hno:


TB, I actually posted a link to this article way back in post #*26390*, but didn’t do the full copy / paste thing :lol:

You mention that off plan is dead and buried. I agree and it will take many years (if ever) before any investor will trust the system again. What is needed now (or rather several years ago), is for the regulatory system to finally stop the words and start some action to protect investors from the developers. Step one in that action plan for the regulator should be to cancel those projects that are not viable and many are that for a multitude of reasons, such as no money, no demand, no infrastructure etc etc.

Only when it can be demonstrated that the Dubai is a properly regulated and safe investment area, with real customer protection mechanisms in place will anyone trust them again.

I was a little sceptical of that article, because the press have been reporting these stories about RERAs ‘words’ of cancelled project for years now…

Less talk, more action! Get on with it!!


----------



## True Blue

Mark, clicking on a link is a pain:lol: better just to speed read the article and decide if it is relevant or interesting

I agree with your sentiments but also looking at the supply pipeline, especially villa projects, I can't see and demand for new projects in the short to medium term. There is still so much to finish and be absorbed.

Speaking to tenants around the pool at Dorrabay, most were waiting on their villas being finished. That will probably represent a decent proportion of the tenants of larger 2 beds and up in Dubai who are waiting on their own properties to be ready and are renting someone elses in the interim. Tenants of 1 beds and studios are probably more transient in nature.


----------



## abf

It seems like PRD Nationwide have nothing to say either


----------



## True Blue

I Know said:


> Rental prices in Dubai’s Jumeirah Beach Residence may be dragged down due to the poor upkeep of facilities in the AED6bn development, analysts have said.
> 
> Residents in the upscale development, built by Dubai Properties Group, have cited lax security, badly maintained communal areas and dirty swimming pools for the declining standard of living in the 36-tower project.
> 
> ...................................
> 
> JBR, which spans 36 residential towers able to accommodate 15,000 people, became a popular expatriate destination on its completion in 2007. The AED6bn project faces 1.7km of beach that features a string of luxury hotels, popular eateries and retail outlets.
> 
> *Initially a draw, The Walk is now seen as a source of noise pollution and traffic congestion, according to tenants
> 
> “There is a constant stream of revving supercars and motorbikes doing circuits along the front of JBR,” added Chris S. “[Management] also insists on hosting events directly below the apartments that keep residents awake.”*
> 
> The Walk has this year hosted events including the 2011 Dubai Jazz Festival, a month-long funfair, and the recent Red Bull Air Village, featuring motorstunts by bike riders.
> 
> Commenting in the JBR Community online forum, a tenant said: *“This is supposed to be a residential area not a highway.”*
> 
> Dubai Properties Group, owner of the development, was not immediately available for comment.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/poor-upkeep-may-drive-down-rental-prices-in-dubai-s-jbr-399400.html


A few years ago they put up signs at JBR banning dog walking due to the mess/ polution they were causing. Now there is a serious problem with noise polution from ridiculously loud cars and motorbikes that do the circuit in the early hours of the morning. 

Why do they not enforce noise abaitment after midnight? They could put up all the appropriate warning signs, then position police with noise meters at strategic points and fine heavily those who deliberately flout the laws by revving and accelerating to 100kmph on the main roads around the marina. My ex tenant who now lives in Paloma Marina Promenade, says he can't sleep for the constant horn tooting at the traffic lights in the early hours of the morning. "Why do these idiots think they need to sound their horns everytime the lights turn green"

Enforcement of heavy fines would help to protect the interests of owners of properties in this area, which is being ruined *by people who don't live in the area*!

I should add that speed cameras would be a big help also in the following areas; all of the bridges in the marina, the stretch of road in front of Park Island and the main road running beside SZR infront of the Marina Mall.


----------



## micmonro1

*To all Torch owners,*
Please read my posts on another thread in which I highlighted SG's tactics to rob people of more money. 
*I am asking people to write and complain to RERA.* Also, with regards to the threat SG and whoever that represent them regarding withholding the handover of the units to the buyers until you sign the addendum, its simple, 
*read the recent Government of Dubai Executive Council Resolution No. 6 of 2010, which is signed by HH Sheikh Mohamed Bin Rashid Al Maktum *
(Note-this Law is considered an executive order and breaching it is considered a criminal offence)

*"the Law that was expanded *upon relates to registration upon completion. Previously, *a developer could not refuse to hand over or register a unit* in the name of the purchaser on the Real Estate Register once a project had been completed or a completion certificate had been issued by the relevant authorities, if a purchaser had discharged all its contractual obligations. *The Resolution adds that now, the developer cannot refuse even if there were other financial obligations owed by the purchaser to the developer which did not arise in connection with the sale contract."*

For those decent people who have faith in what I say 
believe me SG are trying to cause panic amongst investors with these tactics. Its the oldest tricks *(cause panic-buy cheap- sell high .....and make a huge profit) *and they will employ any tactics to entrap you. 
If you read any advise to sign "under duress" *please please ignore it* or call a Lawyer and ask them about what they think, the correct advise will be what MANUTD's Lawyer has told him *"Ignore it". *
They will get SP to pose as your trusted friend who will help you get rid of the unit but in reality they will feed you stories that your unit will be worth cheaper than when you bought it, and that the property market in Dubai is down, all this to fool you in a sense of helplessness. Don't buy it, this is another lie as the property market has began to recover. 
Don't fall for it. I always remember one word of advise I was given.
*Know your rights*
read this link:
http://blogs.thenational.ae/crane_co... 2010(2).pdf


----------



## AllaLV

Dear All

I had enough of lies from Al Tajir, NO WAY on earth the project will be ready in November 2011

Loosing money every month for the past 4 years, paying interest to the bank 

AED 2,600 x 36 month = AED 93,600

We have to demand a compensation from Al Tajir, this is completely unacceptable

Lets organize a meeting in Al Tajir office on Saturday May 28th at 11am and agree of further action

Who is in?


----------



## Winded

*PRD Group*

This is the last Ive had from them in March:

Further to your enquiry, this is to inform that we have submitted the results of the Wind Tower survey to RERA and are awaiting their instructions as to the next step.

Unfortunately, we are not in a position to further progress the matter without RERA's sanction.

Kind Regards,

Sheena George.


----------



## Winded

As the Wind Group is still trading Im thinking of asking a Lawyer to take up the case to take legal action against them for the return of my payments with interest and costs.

Does anyone know any reason why this will not work/cant be done in Dubai?


----------



## glover

*UAE, with former Blackwater, is creating a mercenary army from Columbia and South Africa to protect its interests*

_don't worry about your investment here, mercenaries from Columbia and Africa will protect them. sorry about the length of this post, but i think this is huge imo.
_
-----------------------

By MARK MAZZETTI and EMILY B. HAGER
Published: May 14, 2011

ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates — Late one night last November, a plane carrying dozens of Colombian men touched down in this glittering seaside capital. Whisked through customs by an Emirati intelligence officer, the group boarded an unmarked bus and drove roughly 20 miles to a windswept military complex in the desert sand.

Doug Mills/The New York Times

Sheik Mohamed bin Zayed al-Nahyan of Abu Dhabi hired Erik Prince to build a fighting force.

The Colombians had entered the United Arab Emirates posing as construction workers. In fact, they were soldiers for a secret American-led mercenary army being built by Erik Prince, the billionaire founder of Blackwater Worldwide, with $529 million from the oil-soaked sheikdom.

Mr. Prince, who resettled here last year after his security business faced mounting legal problems in the United States, was hired by the crown prince of Abu Dhabi to put together an 800-member battalion of foreign troops for the U.A.E., according to former employees on the project, American officials and corporate documents obtained by The New York Times.

*The force is intended to conduct special operations missions inside and outside the country, defend oil pipelines and skyscrapers from terrorist attacks and put down internal revolts, the documents show. Such troops could be deployed if the Emirates faced unrest in their crowded labor camps or were challenged by pro-democracy protests like those sweeping the Arab world this year.*

The U.A.E.’s rulers, viewing their own military as inadequate, also hope that the troops could blunt the regional aggression of Iran, the country’s biggest foe, the former employees said. The training camp, located on a sprawling Emirati base called Zayed Military City, is hidden behind concrete walls laced with barbed wire. Photographs show rows of identical yellow temporary buildings, used for barracks and mess halls, and a motor pool, which houses Humvees and fuel trucks. The Colombians, along with South African and other foreign troops, are trained by retired American soldiers and veterans of the German and British special operations units and the French Foreign Legion, according to the former employees and American officials.

In outsourcing critical parts of their defense to mercenaries — the soldiers of choice for medieval kings, Italian Renaissance dukes and African dictators — the Emiratis have begun a new era in the boom in wartime contracting that began after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. And by relying on a force largely created by Americans, they have introduced a volatile element in an already combustible region where the United States is widely viewed with suspicion.

The United Arab Emirates — an autocracy with the sheen of a progressive, modern state — are closely allied with the United States, and American officials indicated that the battalion program had some support in Washington.

“The gulf countries, and the U.A.E. in particular, don’t have a lot of military experience. It would make sense if they looked outside their borders for help,” said one Obama administration official who knew of the operation. “They might want to show that they are not to be messed with.”

Still, it is not clear whether the project has the United States’ official blessing. Legal experts and government officials said some of those involved with the battalion might be breaking federal laws that prohibit American citizens from training foreign troops if they did not secure a license from the State Department.

Mark C. Toner, a spokesman for the department, would not confirm whether Mr. Prince’s company had obtained such a license, but he said the department was investigating to see if the training effort was in violation of American laws. Mr. Toner pointed out that Blackwater (which renamed itself Xe Services ) paid $42 million in fines last year for training foreign troops in Jordan and other countries over the years.

The U.A.E.’s ambassador to Washington, Yousef al-Otaiba, declined to comment for this article. A spokesman for Mr. Prince also did not comment.

For Mr. Prince, the foreign battalion is a bold attempt at reinvention. He is hoping to build an empire in the desert, far from the trial lawyers, Congressional investigators and Justice Department officials he is convinced worked in league to portray Blackwater as reckless. He sold the company last year, but in April, a federal appeals court reopened the case against four Blackwater guards accused of killing 17 Iraqi civilians in Baghdad in 2007. 

To help fulfill his ambitions, Mr. Prince’s new company, Reflex Responses, obtained another multimillion-dollar contract to protect a string of planned nuclear power plants and to provide cybersecurity. He hopes to earn billions more, the former employees said, by assembling additional battalions of Latin American troops for the Emiratis and opening a giant complex where his company can train troops for other governments.
Enlarge This Image

IN THE SAND The training camp for the foreign force, located on an Emirati military base, includes barracks for the soldiers.

THE PAPER TRAIL A collection of documents about the secret army includes recruits’ permits. Some details have been obscured.

Knowing that his ventures are magnets for controversy, Mr. Prince has masked his involvement with the mercenary battalion. His name is not included on contracts and most other corporate documents, and company insiders have at times tried to hide his identity by referring to him by the code name “Kingfish.” But three former employees, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of confidentiality agreements, and two people involved in security contracting described Mr. Prince’s central role.
*
The former employees said that in recruiting the Colombians and others from halfway around the world, Mr. Prince’s subordinates were following his strict rule: hire no Muslims.

Muslim soldiers, Mr. Prince warned, could not be counted on to kill fellow Muslims.*

A Lucrative Deal

Last spring, as waiters in the lobby of the Park Arjaan by Rotana Hotel passed by carrying cups of Turkish coffee, a small team of Blackwater and American military veterans huddled over plans for the foreign battalion. Armed with a black suitcase stuffed with several hundred thousand dollars’ worth of dirhams, the local currency, they began paying the first bills.

The company, often called R2, was licensed last March with 51 percent local ownership, a typical arrangement in the Emirates. It received about $21 million in start-up capital from the U.A.E., the former employees said.

Mr. Prince made the deal with Sheik Mohamed bin Zayed al-Nahyan, the crown prince of Abu Dhabi and the de facto ruler of the United Arab Emirates. The two men had known each other for several years, and it was the prince’s idea to build a foreign commando force for his country.

Savvy and pro-Western, the prince was educated at the Sandhurst military academy in Britain and formed close ties with American military officials. He is also one of the region’s staunchest hawks on Iran and is skeptical that his giant neighbor across the Strait of Hormuz will give up its nuclear program.

“He sees the logic of war dominating the region, and this thinking explains his near-obsessive efforts to build up his armed forces,” said a November 2009 cable from the American Embassy in Abu Dhabi that was obtained by the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks.

For Mr. Prince, a 41-year-old former member of the Navy Seals, the battalion was an opportunity to turn vision into reality. At Blackwater, which had collected billions of dollars in security contracts from the United States government, he had hoped to build an army for hire that could be deployed to crisis zones in Africa, Asia and the Middle East. He even had proposed that the Central Intelligence Agency use his company for special operations missions around the globe, but to no avail. In Abu Dhabi, which he praised in an Emirati newspaper interview last year for its “pro-business” climate, he got another chance.

Mr. Prince’s exploits, both real and rumored, are the subject of fevered discussions in the private security world. He has worked with the Emirati government on various ventures in the past year, including an operation using South African mercenaries to train Somalis to fight pirates. There was talk, too, that he was hatching a scheme last year to cap the Icelandic volcano then spewing ash across Northern Europe.

The team in the hotel lobby was led by Ricky Chambers, known as C. T., a former agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation who had worked for Mr. Prince for years; most recently, he had run a program training Afghan troops for a Blackwater subsidiary called Paravant. 
He was among the half-dozen or so Americans who would serve as top managers of the project, receiving nearly $300,000 in annual compensation. Mr. Chambers and Mr. Prince soon began quietly luring American contractors from Afghanistan, Iraq and other danger spots with pay packages that topped out at more than $200,000 a year, according to a budget document. Many of those who signed on as trainers — which eventually included more than 40 veteran American, European and South African commandos — did not know of Mr. Prince’s involvement, the former employees said.

The army is based in Abu Dhabi, the capital of the United Arab Emirates, but will serve all the emirates.

Mr. Chambers did not respond to requests for comment.

He and Mr. Prince also began looking for soldiers. They lined up Thor Global Enterprises, a company on the Caribbean island of Tortola specializing in “placing foreign servicemen in private security positions overseas,” according to a contract signed last May. The recruits would be paid about $150 a day.

Within months, large tracts of desert were bulldozed and barracks constructed. The Emirates were to provide weapons and equipment for the mercenary force, supplying everything from M-16 rifles to mortars, Leatherman knives to Land Rovers. They agreed to buy parachutes, motorcycles, rucksacks — and 24,000 pairs of socks.

To keep a low profile, Mr. Prince rarely visited the camp or a cluster of luxury villas near the Abu Dhabi airport, where R2 executives and Emirati military officers fine-tune the training schedules and arrange weapons deliveries for the battalion, former employees said. He would show up, they said, in an office suite at the DAS Tower — a skyscraper just steps from Abu Dhabi’s Corniche beach, where sunbathers lounge as cigarette boats and water scooters whiz by. Staff members there manage a number of companies that the former employees say are carrying out secret work for the Emirati government.

Emirati law prohibits disclosure of incorporation records for businesses, which typically list company officers, but it does require them to post company names on offices and storefronts. Over the past year, the sign outside the suite has changed at least twice — it now says Assurance Management Consulting.

While the documents — including contracts, budget sheets and blueprints — obtained by The Times do not mention Mr. Prince, the former employees said he negotiated the U.A.E. deal. Corporate documents describe the battalion’s possible tasks: intelligence gathering, urban combat, the securing of nuclear and radioactive materials, humanitarian missions and special operations “to destroy enemy personnel and equipment.”

One document describes “crowd-control operations” where the crowd “is not armed with firearms but does pose a risk using improvised weapons (clubs and stones).”

People involved in the project and American officials said that the Emiratis were interested in deploying the battalion to respond to terrorist attacks and put down uprisings inside the country’s sprawling labor camps, which house the Pakistanis, Filipinos and other foreigners who make up the bulk of the country’s work force. The foreign military force was planned months before the so-called Arab Spring revolts that many experts believe are unlikely to spread to the U.A.E. Iran was a particular concern.

An Eye on Iran

Although there was no expectation that the mercenary troops would be used for a stealth attack on Iran, Emirati officials talked of using them for a possible maritime and air assault to reclaim a chain of islands, mostly uninhabited, in the Persian Gulf that are the subject of a dispute between Iran and the U.A.E., the former employees said. Iran has sent military forces to at least one of the islands, Abu Musa, and Emirati officials have long been eager to retake the islands and tap their potential oil reserves.

The Emirates have a small military that includes army, air force and naval units as well as a small special operations contingent, which served in Afghanistan, but over all, their forces are considered inexperienced. 

In recent years, the Emirati government has showered American defense companies with billions of dollars to help strengthen the country’s security. A company run by Richard A. Clarke, a former counterterrorism adviser during the Clinton and Bush administrations, has won several lucrative contracts to advise the U.A.E. on how to protect its infrastructure.

Some security consultants believe that Mr. Prince’s efforts to bolster the Emirates’ defenses against an Iranian threat might yield some benefits for the American government, which shares the U.A.E.’s concern about creeping Iranian influence in the region.

“As much as Erik Prince is a pariah in the United States, he may be just what the doctor ordered in the U.A.E.,” said an American security consultant with knowledge of R2’s work.

The contract includes a one-paragraph legal and ethics policy noting that R2 should institute accountability and disciplinary procedures. “The overall goal,” the contract states, “is to ensure that the team members supporting this effort continuously cast the program in a professional and moral light that will hold up to a level of media scrutiny.”

But former employees said that R2’s leaders never directly grappled with some fundamental questions about the operation. International laws governing private armies and mercenaries are murky, but would the Americans overseeing the training of a foreign army on foreign soil be breaking United States law?

Susan Kovarovics, an international trade lawyer who advises companies about export controls, said that because Reflex Responses was an Emirati company it might not need State Department authorization for its activities.

But she said that any Americans working on the project might run legal risks if they did not get government approval to participate in training the foreign troops.

Basic operational issues, too, were not addressed, the former employees said. What were the battalion’s rules of engagement? What if civilians were killed during an operation? And could a Latin American commando force deployed in the Middle East really be kept a secret?

Imported Soldiers

The first waves of mercenaries began arriving last summer. Among them was a 13-year veteran of Colombia’s National Police force named Calixto Rincón, 42, who joined the operation with hopes of providing for his family and seeing a new part of the world.

“We were practically an army for the Emirates,” Mr. Rincón, now back in Bogotá, Colombia, said in an interview. “They wanted people who had a lot of experience in countries with conflicts, like Colombia.”

Mr. Rincón’s visa carried a special stamp from the U.A.E. military intelligence branch, which is overseeing the entire project, that allowed him to move through customs and immigration without being questioned.

He soon found himself in the midst of the camp’s daily routines, which mirrored those of American military training. “We would get up at 5 a.m. and we would start physical exercises,” Mr. Rincón said. His assignment included manual labor at the expanding complex, he said. Other former employees said the troops — outfitted in Emirati military uniforms — were split into companies to work on basic infantry maneuvers, learn navigation skills and practice sniper training.

R2 spends roughly $9 million per month maintaining the battalion, which includes expenditures for employee salaries, ammunition and wages for dozens of domestic workers who cook meals, wash clothes and clean the camp, a former employee said. Mr. Rincón said that he and his companions never wanted for anything, and that their American leaders even arranged to have a chef travel from Colombia to make traditional soups.

But the secrecy of the project has sometimes created a prisonlike environment. “We didn’t have permission to even look through the door,” Mr. Rincón said. “We were only allowed outside for our morning jog, and all we could see was sand everywhere.” 

The Emirates wanted the troops to be ready to deploy just weeks after stepping off the plane, but it quickly became clear that the Colombians’ military skills fell far below expectations. “Some of these kids couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn,” said a former employee. Other recruits admitted to never having fired a weapon.

Rethinking Roles

As a result, the veteran American and foreign commandos training the battalion have had to rethink their roles. They had planned to act only as “advisers” during missions — meaning they would not fire weapons — but over time, they realized that they would have to fight side by side with their troops, former officials said.

Making matters worse, the recruitment pipeline began drying up. Former employees said that Thor struggled to sign up, and keep, enough men on the ground. Mr. Rincón developed a hernia and was forced to return to Colombia, while others were dismissed from the program for drug use or poor conduct.

And R2’s own corporate leadership has also been in flux. Mr. Chambers, who helped develop the project, left after several months. A handful of other top executives, some of them former Blackwater employees, have been hired, then fired within weeks.

To bolster the force, R2 recruited a platoon of South African mercenaries, including some veterans of Executive Outcomes, a South African company notorious for staging coup attempts or suppressing rebellions against African strongmen in the 1990s. The platoon was to function as a quick-reaction force, American officials and former employees said, and began training for a practice mission: a terrorist attack on the Burj Khalifa skyscraper in Dubai, the world’s tallest building. They would secure the situation before quietly handing over control to Emirati troops.

But by last November, the battalion was officially behind schedule. The original goal was for the 800-man force to be ready by March 31; recently, former employees said, the battalion’s size was reduced to about 580 men.

Emirati military officials had promised that if this first battalion was a success, they would pay for an entire brigade of several thousand men. The new contracts would be worth billions, and would help with Mr. Prince’s next big project: a desert training complex for foreign troops patterned after Blackwater’s compound in Moyock, N.C. But before moving ahead, U.A.E. military officials have insisted that the battalion prove itself in a “real world mission.”

That has yet to happen. So far, the Latin American troops have been taken off the base only to shop and for occasional entertainment.

On a recent spring night though, after months stationed in the desert, they boarded an unmarked bus and were driven to hotels in central Dubai, a former employee said. There, some R2 executives had arranged for them to spend the evening with prostitutes. 

Mark Mazzetti reported from Abu Dhabi and Washington, and Emily B. Hager from New York. Jenny Carolina González and Simon Romero contributed reporting from Bogotá, Colombia. Kitty Bennett contributed research from Washington.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/world/middleeast/15prince.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&hp


----------



## TerryPop

^^ very interesting Glover.


----------



## Jesus.C

AllaLV said:


> Dear All
> 
> I had enough of lies from Al Tajir, NO WAY on earth the project will be ready in November 2011
> 
> Loosing money every month for the past 4 years, paying interest to the bank
> 
> AED 2,600 x 36 month = AED 93,600
> 
> We have to demand a compensation from Al Tajir, this is completely unacceptable
> 
> Lets organize a meeting in Al Tajir office on Saturday May 28th at 11am and agree of further action
> 
> Who is in?


They are closed on 28th its a Saturday can we organize another day. The guy we should meet there is abdul khaliq. We should get a written letter that they will wave off the service fees for 3 years at least and also a good discount on the apartment and explore re-sale if any.


----------



## SUR

Winded said:


> Does anyone know any reason why this will not work/cant be done in Dubai?


Rich inbred arab dictatorships and rule of law do not mix. Best to write off your money and never again invest in such countries.


----------



## Dubai-Dreamin

*Land Registration*

What are peoples' opinions about the need for paying Land Registration fees?If I wish to register my Residences apartment I will need to pay 18000 AED, but as I have no desire to sell it is there any need to do this? EMAAR have not been chasing me for the money. do you think there are any disadvantages/dangers in not paying, and what would be the benefits?
all replies appreciated


----------



## Imre

*Dubailand to have Universal, Legoland for now*

*Tatweer Parks says it is not actively pursuing other theme parks*

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Thursday, May 19, 2011 

Tatweer Parks, a subsidiary of Dubai Holding, is currently in talks with Universal Studios and Merlin Entertainments Group for theme parks in Dubailand and not actively pursuing any other venture, Emirates 24/7 can reveal.

“Tatweer Parks continue to work with Universal to develop a world class theme park in Dubai on line with market demand. Specific dates will be announced nearer to the time of opening and when agreed with Universal,” the company said in an emailed statement.

“Similarly Legoland forms an important part of this strategy and we continue to work with them.”

http://www.emirates247.com/property/dubailand-to-have-universal-legoland-for-now-2011-05-19-1.394403


----------



## MarkWass

*WHEN CAN A DEVELOPER ASK FOR A 'MILESTONE' PAYMENT TO BE MADE?*

Hi All

I wonder if anyone can advise me…

I have just received an email from a developer saying that they are due to reach a particular ‘Milestone’ on a particular date in June. And in anticipation of that, they also sent me an invoice for the payment to be made by the same date in June.

Does anyone know whether there is any *correct procedure that has to be followed in terms of when they are allowed to ask for this payment?* I don’t know, and the following paragraph is purely guess work: 

*One would have thought that to give a milestone completion payment plan some kind of legitimacy, then off-plan developers might have to wait until a milestone completion certificate had been issued by an official independent authority before that developer could ask for payment for that milestone?* Given the long history of very extensive delays with pretty much all developments, by all developers in Dubai, one would have thought that when the government introduced milestone payment plans, presumably with the protection of investors in mind, there would be some clear guidelines as to when a developer can ask for that respective milestone payment. IE not in advance of a theoretical / forecast / projected milestone completion date, particularly given the fact that theory and forecast dates often mean little in Dubai, with regards to off-plan properties?


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## propertymagnet

True Blue said:


> ^^By the way, I think the short stay market could be in serious trouble soon. I have been searching hotel rates and have been offered 4 star rooms for £35/night. MSG can't compete with that!


Thats why you design and furnish an apartment that will be compared to the very best of hotels, and you will get excellent returns.

Do a crap job of an apartment and you will get crap rentals.You wont be able to give it away. And that is what most owners do. they won't spend the money, so they end up on a slippery slope, and will find themselves empty, and they will be wishing the excepted the 50,00- dhs a year 

But what happens if you have something special. Something better than anything else out there.Simples. You book week after week after week,
because there is a huge massive shortage of TOP quality apartments in Dubai, short term rentals is easy, and why, because there isnt anyone else out there thats doing it right


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## MOAF

propertymagnet said:


> Thats why you design and furnish an apartment that will be compared to the very best of hotels, and you will get excellent returns.
> 
> Do a crap job of an apartment and you will get crap rentals.You wont be able to give it away. And that is what most owners do. they won't spend the money, so they end up on a slippery slope, and will find themselves empty, and they will be wishing the excepted the 50,00- dhs a year
> 
> But what happens if you have something special. Something better than anything else out there.Simples. You book week after week after week,
> because there is a huge massive shortage of TOP quality apartments in Dubai, short term rentals is easy, and why, because there isnt anyone else out there thats doing it right


Propertymagnet

Just Booked the Grosvernor House at £85 per night with breakfast & got the Hotel to pick me up in a flashy BMW complimentary of course, at the end of June to do my handover at The Torch, I booked directly with the hotel as a regular stayer & I love the GH because everyone waits on you hand & foot, so why would anyone want to rent a apartment 

MOAF


----------



## MarkWass

Firstly, I'm glad the recent incessant copy/pasting of media articles on this thread seems to have been 'regulated' (thanks 234!). Talking of regulation, any comments on my post (3 above this one)? TB you seem to know what's going on. Any thoughts?


----------



## propertymagnet

MOAF said:


> Propertymagnet
> 
> Just Booked the Grosvernor House at £85 per night with breakfast & got the Hotel to pick me up in a flashy BMW complimentary of course, at the end of June to do my handover at The Torch, I booked directly with the hotel as a regular stayer & I love the GH because everyone waits on you hand & foot, so why would anyone want to rent a apartment
> 
> MOAF


Simple, you prefer hotels, its a no brainer really isn't it?

Do you think its quite possible then that there are people that prefer private apartments to hotels then? Do you think that there are people that don't want to actually be boxed in a tiny room and want the luxury of there own space?
with separate bedrooms for the kids, a dining room, tv, videos , wireless internet , washing machine, infact all the luxuries that you would have in your own home.Neither do they want to be a breakfast at a certain time, they want to arise at a time that suits them, less stress less hassle.Which is what holidays are about right?

Because hotels suit you, please don't think that they suit everyone they don't.
I can't remember the last time I stayed in a hotel , and I would never. The shift worldwide is moving from hotels to private accommodation, there really isn't a comparison, unless of course 'being waited on hand and foot' is the be all and end all for you, but not everyone is of that mentality (thankfully)
£85.00 a night for one room is not good value for money in my opinion, £171.00 a night for several rooms is .(£1200.00 a week))And thats what I rent my two bedroom apartments out for most of the year.Once renters have made the swtich from hotels to luxury private accommodation, they never go back, at least they don't when they stay in one of my properties


----------



## 234sale

So I get a private message,,, hmmm



Screampoint said:


> Good Afternoon,
> 
> I understand that you are one of the moderators of Skyscraper City and Screampoint Property Observer would like to link with the Dubai Forums to communicate Screampoint's current role with RERA as well as some new exciting new initiatives we are proposing that are endorsed by RERA to continue helping the Dubai Real Estate market to flourish.
> 
> I would be grateful if you can email me your details or if we can have a meeting either in our office or at RERA.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Screampoint Property Observer


----------



## sadinvestor

*DAMAC requests more payment for lakeside IMPZ*

Did anyone get an email/letter from DAMAC requesting a payment for a fourth installment of the Lakeside IMPZ flats?

Anticipated completion is last quarter of 2013 instead of 2010. They have a cheek to do that.

Please reply if you are interested in cancelling your contract according ot law no. 13.









sadinvestor said:


> I made an overpayment for this project of AED14k and for the last two year I have been asking DAMAC for money back and nothing recieved from Damac. They keep emailing to say that this will go toward my next installment in few weeks.
> 
> Anyone cancelled DAMAC lakeside contract as by law you are allowed to do so and willl get 25% of total cost of the project if construction started but under 40% completoin or osmething like that?
> 
> Can anyone advise me further. Also is the completion in mid 2013?


----------



## sgn7200

sadinvestor said:


> Did anyone get an email/letter from DAMAC requesting a payment for a fourth installment of the Lakeside IMPZ flats?
> 
> Anticipated completion is last quarter of 2013 instead of 2010. They have a cheek to do that.
> 
> Please reply if you are interested in cancelling your contract according ot law no. 13.


I have also received a similar request by Email. I would love to be able to cancel the contract if there is way out. To be honest, there is no way out and we are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. If you overlook the fact that the project is vastly delayed but this applies to all of real estate in Dubai. After all, unlike many other developers, they are building. According to pictures on their web site, they have built more than the podium and they are right in asking for payment. By not paying, we shall be creating problems for ourselves. I have decided to pay them and let the construction proceed on the hope that one day I shall get my apartment. I believe this way I am cutting my losses. I shall be glad to hear of your logic for not paying as after all two wrongs do not make one right. Please do convince me that I am wrong in which case I shall stop my payment.


----------



## Julito-dubai

http://www.luxhabitat.ae/SaleAndPurchase/all

some excellent mega luxury flats in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. Just for those who like to see big apartments


----------



## redjay22

I have some bad news for you guys at Lakeside as well!

I am just getting my 2 studios at Lago Vista 1 handed over 4 years late and the extortionate fees are eye watering.

1000 AED oqood fee,
2% registration charge
2000 AED for meter connection. 

Also any late payments even a day late will incur 1% per month interest penalties rolled up every quarter (check your agreements) so don't think they will not charge!

You also pay 2% registration fee on the parking space!

They want the service charge fees up front which are 10.78 AEd per square foot and some sort of contingency fee as well.

Also Dewa and Empower fees upfront are 6260 AED. If you cant get there like me a good Power Of Attorney will charge about 3000 AED per studio.

They may even take all the final charges upfront and then suddenly send you a DHL letter telling you that the handover has been delayed 2 more weeks like they did with us.

To cap it all off the compensation for late delivery of your units will be peanuts as it is linked to Libor rates unlike their own late fees! I just got less than 2000 AED per stuido for a 4 year delay!

They can get away with anything because if you don't pay it all they will not handover your apartment so you can't use it or rent it to clawback your massive losses! And the government and courts are not going to help you!!

I think my studios are probably worth less than 250,000 AEd each and i paid 550,000 with parking!

I am not trying to upset people but this is exactly what i have found out in the last few months.

All the best!

Jay


----------



## bizzybonita

*REAL ESTATE INVESTORS SURVEY*

http://esurvey.dubai.ae/survey.asp?sid=2011516367203###


----------



## MarkWass

^^ Thanks Bizzy. I just did the survey in the link you posted.

Question 21 and 22 ask about the *“new Real Estate investor protection law”. * Does anyone have any info about how development of this law is progressing? Realistic implementation date? Will it protect existing investors or only new ones? Will it finally start to regulate developers and protect the investors? 

Or is it similar to all the ‘talk’ and countless media articles about cancelled projects over recent years?


----------



## Mistermark

MarkWass said:


> ^^ Thanks Bizzy. I just did the survey in the link you posted.
> 
> Question 21 and 22 ask about the *“new Real Estate investor protection law”. * Does anyone have any info about how development of this law is progressing? Realistic implementation date? Will it protect existing investors or only new ones? Will it finally start to regulate developers and protect the investors?
> 
> Or is it similar to all the ‘talk’ and countless media articles about cancelled projects over recent years?


I suspect so, yes. It has taken a while but now I think people are beginning to realise that the true roles of RERA are in fact (i) to ringfence investors' money from the point at which escrow was introduced, to give at least some chance of projects being completed rather than monies redeployed or stolen; (ii) to make it look as if Dubai has a well regulated property sector and (iii) to protect developers from their customers, by providing them with somewhere to vent their anger and the illusion of action.

Interestingly, it looks like they are being given a fairly public opportunity to either act for customers or be shown publicly to have failed to do so. It will be interesting to see which way they jump...


----------



## glover

^^^^ agree with you. RERA/Land Department's tone has recently changed. after losing any credibility they had with investors, their tone is now to give the image that their mission is to protect investors. but the reality is the opposite. from my dealings with them, their primary mission is still protecting developers (after all, the biggest developers are government owned). 

one thing i am noticing recently is that the government of dubai is increasingly becoming aware of the need to regain investor confidence to kick start the real estate sector. And this is where the role of the heads of RERA/Land Department come into play. i believe that's why we have the change in tone recently, but not the substance (at least so far).

example. why would RERA need as many people as possible to contact them regarding Select's illegal acts in handing over the Torch apartments. They have not acted yet (at least in public) even though many people complained. if they are really interested in protecting investor's interests, one complaint should put them in action, given that Select has clearly broken the law in the way they handled handing over the apartments.


----------



## burntfingers

Can anyone assure me that this is Lawns iv site and that progress is being made on the project.
I did get e-mail from DEC few weeks ago assuring me construction had re-started with completion in around 18 months. Can anyone confirm?
Also have sent and now re-sent THREE times e-mail to RERA C.E.O. asking on situation regarding Lawns iv including SHOULD I GO AHEAD WITH PAYING THE 3,000 AED FOR INTERIM REGISTRATION. This is now well overdue for my payment. But he has not responded to these chase up e-mails despite responding to initial e-mail tating he would get back to me.
Should I pay the registration fee? Any advise now that construction APPEARS to be well under way at last.
Once built (looking on the positive side) should I try to sell up and getr out of Dubai property market, or do you think it will be good investment once built.
My concern is will it remain empty, no rent being generated and investers having to pay various fees to DEC. 
Any views / answers apreciated


----------



## Ahmed N

Androider said:


> Passing almost every day thru the contstruction site, work been going on on every day basis, even at night time with lights on.
> 
> Fingers crossed for them.



Hi Androider, thanks for your post. Would it be possible to give any update, are they making another floor? what progress have been made. Any chance of pictures - the reason i am asking you is because I have asked ACI for update and as normal they are ignoring my e-mails. Thanks


----------



## Josau

bizzybonita said:


> *REAL ESTATE INVESTORS SURVEY*
> 
> http://esurvey.dubai.ae/survey.asp?sid=2011516367203###


^^Who made this survey up? They should first learn, how to ask proper questions and propose proper answers. The survey in itself shows, how unqualified RERA is.


----------



## Mistermark

I think the focus of the SG media campaign should be that Dubai is a place where property developers can get away with daylight robbery because the regulators and courts don't function to protect buyers' interests. The aim should be to damage inward investment from countries such as the UK and hence create pressure on the Government and RERA to get their fingers out and act decisively against a certain high-profile developer whose conduct has shamed the Emirate.


----------



## Towers3

Mistermark said:


> I think the focus of the SG media campaign should be that Dubai is a place where property developers can get away with daylight robbery because the regulators and courts don't function to protect buyers' interests. The aim should be to damage inward investment from countries such as the UK and hence create pressure on the Government and RERA to get their fingers out and act decisively against a certain high-profile developer whose conduct has shamed the Emirate.


There has been a media campaign in the UK. Dubai's taking a beating... Its going to be years before Dubai recovers. We should have all bought a crane instead and hired it out. No-one going to invest in Dubai for years. RERA's a PR exercise at best.


----------



## MarkWass

Towers3 said:


> Dubai's taking a beating... Its going to be years before Dubai recovers..


Sure. But looking longer term (eg 5 - 10 years or so), there is a way the Dubai govt can change the view from the rest of the world, and forecasts... and therefore stand a chance of what they will desperately need for the foreseeable future (ie more external investment)?

Easy plan:

1. Get rid of or fundamentally shake up from top to bottom of all the bs PR quangos, such as RERA, DLD etc...

2. Start regulating, not tomorrow, but TODAY.

If they follow this simple 2 point plan then perhaps then with everyones short term memories, if they start to do the right thing now, in a few years time.... surely Dubai may be allowed to rebuild itself on the world stage?


----------



## noir-dresses

And what about the visa issue, I would certainly put that in your list, if not at the top.

Dubai's real estate sector speaks for it self, my bathroom in Toronto is worth more than the average apartment in Marina, and I'm not even joking. 

Most of the empty buildings in Dubai are built on hope, or stubbornness, that's why most of them are empty.

Good old supply, and demand. Way to much supply, and no real demand, nor a fundamental reason for demand.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Speaking exclusively to OPP, Smith & Ken says that it is experiencing “a high level of demand from clients looking to buy or rent property in Dubai.” 

“The Dubai Market is on the up again,” the company adds. “The population is increasing and the economy is predicted to grow by 3.5% again this year, creating a lot of demand for Dubai property, both domestically and internationally.”

“This has been demonstrated by Smith & Ken receiving over 600 enquiries per week consistently since the turn of the year.”

And prices are stabilising in Dubai too. “Current rental yields on offer are around 7% to 8% net which is proving to be very popular with buy to let investors,” says Smith & Ken.

http://opp.org.uk/news_article.asp?id=5288


^^ Sounds a little bit encouraging? :dunno:


----------



## sgn7200

burntfingers said:


> Can anyone assure me that this is Lawns iv site and that progress is being made on the project.
> I did get e-mail from DEC few weeks ago assuring me construction had re-started with completion in around 18 months. Can anyone confirm?
> Also have sent and now re-sent THREE times e-mail to RERA C.E.O. asking on situation regarding Lawns iv including SHOULD I GO AHEAD WITH PAYING THE 3,000 AED FOR INTERIM REGISTRATION. This is now well overdue for my payment. But he has not responded to these chase up e-mails despite responding to initial e-mail tating he would get back to me.
> Should I pay the registration fee? Any advise now that construction APPEARS to be well under way at last.
> Once built (looking on the positive side) should I try to sell up and getr out of Dubai property market, or do you think it will be good investment once built.
> My concern is will it remain empty, no rent being generated and investers having to pay various fees to DEC.
> Any views / answers apreciated


Quite frankly, I would not pay AED 3000 as Interim Regn fee. DEC have admitted the fee is only AED1000/- and the balance of AED2000 is their admin fee. If you pay them AED2000 and you are letting them get away with murder. More you pay them, more they will ask you to pay. You will find elsewhere in the forum, other developers e.g. Damac are asking for only AED1000. So why are DEC asking for AED3000. What special service are they giving us for this excessive charge. Do not set a bad example. Argue with them. Take them to RERA. Shout and scream but hold firm on your principle. Make them follow industry practice. Tell them, it is AED1000 or nothing. Their past record is dismal and who knows how far they are going to build and then stop. Their record of completed QUALITY projects is very poor indeed.


----------



## glover

^^^ ask yourself, how come then you cannot rent your apartment after putting it on the market for almost a month at a depressed rate!!!


----------



## ummbutti

sgn7200 said:


> Quite frankly, I would not pay AED 3000 as Interim Regn fee. DEC have admitted the fee is only AED1000/- and the balance of AED2000 is their admin fee. If you pay them AED2000 and you are letting them get away with murder. More you pay them, more they will ask you to pay. You will find elsewhere in the forum, other developers e.g. Damac are asking for only AED1000. So why are DEC asking for AED3000. What special service are they giving us for this excessive charge. Do not set a bad example. Argue with them. Take them to RERA. Shout and scream but hold firm on your principle. Make them follow industry practice. Tell them, it is AED1000 or nothing. Their past record is dismal and who knows how far they are going to build and then stop. Their record of completed QUALITY projects is very poor indeed.


Well Said. Agreed 100%


----------



## Richard Head

I keep a close watch on 3 bed Saheel villas in Arabian Ranches.

Couple of months ago you would see them at 2.25 or 2.3 "distress sales" every day on the first page of a Dubizzle search. Now it's rare to see a 2.5 and many days the lowest on the front page is 2.6.

Couple that with a recent increase in the number of agents sending emailshots with "properties needed urgently" for Ranches, and the tide has definitely turned for premium properties. Same applies to Palm apartments, both sale and rental prices have bounced.

Potentially with summer and Ramadan combined we could see one more small dip, but then that always happens, seasonal phenomenon rather than market fundamentals. I think from September the only way is up, albeit at a slow and sensible pace.


----------



## Pleth

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/g...e-charter-for-uae-federal-government-1.812360 :
Dubai: His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, on Tuesday launched the Customer *Service *Charter of the federal government *that aims to meet the needs of customers through speed of service delivery and provision of efficient services.*

Waow will that also include RERA and the passport control in Dubai Airport Arrivals??? 
Last night at the airport arrivals was a scandal, long queues and one visitor actually complained after an hour. Hell broke loose with a passport official in white dress shouting back at the queue that they could go home again or join another queue. After the shouting he decided not to do any more work, - just to teach the queue a lesson. 
It was embarassing. 
Efficiency?? Everything happens in slow motion. The staff needs to chat to each other, joke, send sms'es, check their mobiles, yawn, strech. They obviously don't like their jobs.
The first impression is however very important.


----------



## Mistermark

Richard Head said:


> I keep a close watch on 3 bed Saheel villas in Arabian Ranches.
> 
> Couple of months ago you would see them at 2.25 or 2.3 "distress sales" every day on the first page of a Dubizzle search. Now it's rare to see a 2.5 and many days the lowest on the front page is 2.6.
> 
> Couple that with a recent increase in the number of agents sending emailshots with "properties needed urgently" for Ranches, and the tide has definitely turned for premium properties. Same applies to Palm apartments, both sale and rental prices have bounced.
> 
> Potentially with summer and Ramadan combined we could see one more small dip, but then that always happens, seasonal phenomenon rather than market fundamentals. I think from September the only way is up, albeit at a slow and sensible pace.


The same happened last Spring too. I'm not sure whether this is a genuine upturn or seasonality. The key will be what happens in late Summer and Autumn - after a tranche of ex-pats go home at the end of the school year and before the Summer, how many new ones replace them? My guess is there will be a further drop in the market, exceeding recent gains, but I hope I am wrong...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

glover said:


> ^^^ ask yourself, how come then you cannot rent your apartment after putting it on the market for almost a month at a depressed rate!!!


Its been on the market less than 1 week at 105k with only 1 lift working and still had interest and possible offer soon.


----------



## sgn7200

redjay22 said:


> I have some bad news for you guys at Lakeside as well!
> 
> I am just getting my 2 studios at Lago Vista 1 handed over 4 years late and the extortionate fees are eye watering.
> 
> 1000 AED oqood fee,
> 2% registration charge
> 2000 AED for meter connection.
> 
> Also any late payments even a day late will incur 1% per month interest penalties rolled up every quarter (check your agreements) so don't think they will not charge!
> 
> You also pay 2% registration fee on the parking space!
> 
> They want the service charge fees up front which are 10.78 AEd per square foot and some sort of contingency fee as well.
> 
> Also Dewa and Empower fees upfront are 6260 AED. If you cant get there like me a good Power Of Attorney will charge about 3000 AED per studio.
> 
> They may even take all the final charges upfront and then suddenly send you a DHL letter telling you that the handover has been delayed 2 more weeks like they did with us.
> 
> To cap it all off the compensation for late delivery of your units will be peanuts as it is linked to Libor rates unlike their own late fees! I just got less than 2000 AED per stuido for a 4 year delay!
> 
> They can get away with anything because if you don't pay it all they will not handover your apartment so you can't us eit or rent it to clawback your massive losses! And the government and courts are not going to help you!!
> 
> I think my studios are probably worth less than 250,000 AEd and i paid 550,000 with parking!
> 
> I am not trying to upset people but this is exactly what i have found out in the last few months.
> 
> All the best!
> 
> Jay


Can you please clarify whether AED250,000/- current value is the combined value of two units or value of each unit. Also please tell us the approximate value per sq ft you have used. This will assist us in deciding whether to write off what we have paid and not pay any more or go ahead and carry on paying hoping we shall recover part of the monies already paid. Please do come back with your reply and this will be a big favour to your fellow investors.


----------



## redjay22

Studios are on the 14th and 15th floor of Lago Vista 1. They were bought as 508 sq/ft but have shrunk to 497 sq/ft! But as this is less than a 3% reduction no reduction in final price! LOL!

Looking at various websites i thnk they are worth about 250,000 aed each!

Oh they have just delayed another 30 days after i have made full payment for everything and despite telling me less than 24 hours earlier that there was no way they would delay again!

Can other people confirm how much ther are paying fo runits and parking please?


----------



## Androider

Cleaning of the site is almost finished, cranes been picking up and constantly moving throughout a day. Om living in JLT (Saba3) that is. So im passing by every single day and stopping by for a cigg to check whats going on. 
In addition, DMCC is is finishing the ongoing road construction (Huge bridge and a tunnel) as well as the JLT walk construction is getting close to the end. Grass been planted, palms and all the irrigation systems installed. Seems like they want to finish the walks by the end of the summer. 

In addition - i will surely post picture update when the next floor will be build. Which will be soon.

Brgds / Serge


----------



## Ahmed N

Androider said:


> Cleaning of the site is almost finished, cranes been picking up and constantly moving throughout a day. Om living in JLT (Saba3) that is. So im passing by every single day and stopping by for a cigg to check whats going on.
> In addition, DMCC is is finishing the ongoing road construction (Huge bridge and a tunnel) as well as the JLT walk construction is getting close to the end. Grass been planted, palms and all the irrigation systems installed. Seems like they want to finish the walks by the end of the summer.
> 
> In addition - i will surely post picture update when the next floor will be build. Which will be soon.
> 
> Brgds / Serge


thank you. look forward to your pictures.


----------



## propertymagnet

A close freind of mine Steve that frequents this forum, his close freind has just rented a 2 bed in the Torch for 85,000, marina view, however i dont know which floor it is, or which type.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Probably the smaller one (without kitchen) on lower floors, they are going for less. Was that without added chiller charges? Was it full or partial marina view? Also told a 2 bed lower floor marina view went for 90k. 

2 bed prices ranges are 80k to 105k depending on floor, layout and view.


----------



## propertymagnet

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Probably the smaller one (without kitchen) on lower floors, they are going for less. Was that without added chiller charges? Was it full or partial marina view? Also told a 2 bed lower floor marina view went for 90k.
> 
> 2 bed prices ranges are 80k to 105k depending on floor, layout and view.


I have no idea Steve, but i shall find out


----------



## True Blue

propertymagnet said:


> A close freind of mine Steve that frequents this forum, his close freind has just rented a 2 bed in the Torch for 85,000, marina view, however i dont know which floor it is, or which type.





Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Probably the smaller one (without kitchen) on lower floors, they are going for less. Was that without added chiller charges? Was it full or partial marina view? Also told a 2 bed lower floor marina view went for 90k.
> 
> 2 bed prices ranges are 80k to 105k depending on floor, layout and view.


Probably someone that is not wanting to hang around with the hope of getting 105k and reducing their price in a few months time only to get the 85k that TB said was a fair price in the first place

Knows his stuff that TB guy:lol:


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/g...e-charter-for-uae-federal-government-1.812360 :
> Dubai: His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, on Tuesday launched the Customer *Service *Charter of the federal government *that aims to meet the needs of customers through speed of service delivery and provision of efficient services.*
> 
> Waow will that also include RERA and the passport control in Dubai Airport Arrivals???
> Last night at the airport arrivals was a scandal, long queues and one visitor actually complained after an hour. Hell broke loose with a passport official in white dress shouting back at the queue that they could go home again or join another queue. After the shouting he decided not to do any more work, - just to teach the queue a lesson.
> It was embarassing.
> Efficiency?? Everything happens in slow motion. The staff needs to chat to each other, joke, send sms'es, check their mobiles, yawn, strech. They obviously don't like their jobs.
> The first impression is however very important.


I have seen those scenes in Passport control so many times now. It is a joke that they don't have the management structure to sort it out. The same happened one early morning with me and the tourists around me were saying they won't be back, before they have even arrived! I got sent to police office 2 after complaining about the length of time being taken by a guy between persons. The ladies were processing more than twice as many people, he clearly hated his job. When I went to the police office I asked why I had been sent there and everyone shrugged their shoulders. Amazing incompetence.


----------



## propertymagnet

True Blue said:


> Probably someone that is not wanting to hang around with the hope of getting 105k and reducing their price in a few months time only to get the 85k that TB said was a fair price in the first place
> 
> Knows his stuff that TB guy:lol:



Steve im afraid its on the 69th floor and it has full marina view, still don't know what style it is though.


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> I have seen those scenes in Passport control so many times now. It is a joke that they don't have the management structure to sort it out. The same happened one early morning with me and the tourists around me were saying they won't be back, before they have even arrived! I got sent to police office 2 after complaining about the length of time being taken by a guy between persons. The ladies were processing more than twice as many people, he clearly hated his job. When I went to the police office I asked why I had been sent there and everyone shrugged their shoulders. Amazing incompetence.


I saw the same thing many times as well. I don't think it's just that they don't like their job, I honestly think they just don't like working what so ever. I also think that they are not fully aware of how important it is for them to be as professional/productive for the countries image.

If any of you don't have a residency visa, but travel a lot it's good to have a Skywards Gold Card. All you have to do is register at the airport, take a photo, pay a few Dirhams, and you can use the electronic entry into the country. I use to do that until my passport became worthless in the UAE, no more standing in lines, it was great. The Gold Card also gives you access to a lot of hotels pools/beach facilities, not to mention airport lounges, easy check in, more luggage weight, etc, etc.

Wait until concourse three opens up, they will also use the same passport control in terminal three, it's going to be a mess.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

propertymagnet said:


> Steve im afraid its on the 69th floor and it has full marina view, still don't know what style it is though.


Guess it was someone wanting to rent immediately so as not to have to pay their June LPP payment of £4.5k. Worth renting cheap to avoid parting with more cash I suppose. Now that LPP payments have to be made, might not get these discount bargains for a while until later when there many units in the marina flooding the market in a few months time to be absorbed.


----------



## True Blue

^^You're not giving in are you. If you have a 2 month void period and eventually get 95k say, you are worse off than the guy who let straight away at 85k with no void period.

Do you not understand that?


----------



## True Blue

noir-dresses said:


> I saw the same thing many times as well. I don't think it's just that they don't like their job, I honestly think they just don't like working what so ever. I also think that they are not fully aware of how important it is for them to be as professional/productive for the countries image.
> 
> If any of you don't have a residency visa, but travel a lot it's good to have a Skywards Gold Card. All you have to do is register at the airport, take a photo, pay a few Dirhams, and you can use the electronic entry into the country. I use to do that until my passport became worthless in the UAE, no more standing in lines, it was great. The Gold Card also gives you access to a lot of hotels pools/beach facilities, not to mention airport lounges, easy check in, more luggage weight, etc, etc.
> 
> Wait until concourse three opens up, they will also use the same passport control in terminal three, it's going to be a mess.


Does this skywards gold card only apply to Emirates passengers? I only flew once with Emirates and never again. Poor value from Glasgow. Cheapest flights for June I have been quoted is £675, I can fly with KLM for £338. So I always use terminal 1, nightmare!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> ^^You're not giving in are you. If you have a 2 month void period and eventually get 95k say, you are worse off than the guy who let straight away at 85k with no void period.
> 
> Do you not understand that?


Yes I understand that, but I wont have a 2 month void period


----------



## Pleth

*Lack of service - Passport control airport*



True Blue said:


> I have seen those scenes in Passport control so many times now. It is a joke that they don't have the management structure to sort it out. The same happened one early morning with me and the tourists around me were saying they won't be back, before they have even arrived! I got sent to police office 2 after complaining about the length of time being taken by a guy between persons. The ladies were processing more than twice as many people, he clearly hated his job. When I went to the police office I asked why I had been sent there and everyone shrugged their shoulders. Amazing incompetence.


You are right it is the lack of management to sort it out.
It just gives you such a bad impression of the speed and efficiency - and kindness of the country you are about to see.
After all Dubai's economy depends from the tourism.

Every time I visit USA there is always an officer saying something nice, cracking a joke or just saying "have a nice holiday". 
When I arrive in Germany the officers are efficient policemen and they always manage to say a polite "thank you" when I hand them my passport.


----------



## propertymagnet

True Blue said:


> Does this skywards gold card only apply to Emirates passengers? I only flew once with Emirates and never again. Poor value from Glasgow. Cheapest flights for June I have been quoted is £675, I can fly with KLM for £338. So I always use terminal 1, nightmare!



I fly with KLM, mainly because of there excess baggage policies. £37.00 for an extra suitcase weighing in at 23 kilos. They also are the most generous on hand luggage at 12 kgs per person. Emirates are £25.00 for every kilo extra of checked baggage , so that extra suitcase with Emirates would cost me £575.00.
And they only allow 7 kgs of hand luggage too. Considering my camera equipment and laptop are in excess of that, its no good for me. And they are dead strict, Emirates are the only airline ive flown with that actually weigh your hand luggage!!!


----------



## propertymagnet

Porcello said:


> Housing fee for owners works with the original price, not with the last sales price. And as you can imagine, there are ways to work around it to reduce the monthly payment.
> But, yes, BK is not a good investment if you buy to rent out.


Thanks Porcello for your reply. What does BK mean?


----------



## gerald.d

Porcello said:


> Housing fee for owners works with the original price, not with the last sales price. And as you can imagine, there are ways to work around it to reduce the monthly payment.
> But, yes, BK is not a good investment if you buy to rent out.


I thought the original price for some of the BK apartments was around the 10K/sqft mark, no?


----------



## propertymagnet

gerald.d said:


> Am _I_ having a bad day? :lol:


It sure seems like it......Or else you are intimidated by women


----------



## MANUTD

True Blue said:


> Could be true but UAE is hoping to be a tourist destination.
> 
> I came back to the UK on Monday during the storms and was a bit elated to have a safe landing after the way the plane was being tossed around like rag doll. The woman at imigration was miserable, so I asked her if she was not happy to see me arrive back safely, she just looked at me without changing her expression "wot?"
> 
> Sorry mam for assuming you were a humanhno: It must be a shit job right enough


Why should she be happy to see you ?? :lol::lol: 

Perhaps she was a CELTIC supporter !


----------



## Porcello

gerald.d said:


> I thought the original price for some of the BK apartments was around the 10K/sqft mark, no?


I doubt... that was the price during the peak. If I remember well the original price was around 2500 per sq ft. But, again, there are workarounds for housing fees. Unfortunately no way to escape service charges which are simply ridiculous there.


----------



## gerald.d

propertymagnet said:


> It sure seems like it......Or else you are intimidated by women


:lol:

I will refrain from making the blatantly obvious comment.


----------



## propertymagnet

gerald.d said:


> I wonder if we'll get a flood of cheap Burj Khalifa apartments on the rental market once Dubai Municipality get around to sticking the municipality fee on _those_ DEWA bills.
> 
> Working on the assmuption that some of those apartments sold for 10,000AED/sq ft...
> 
> 1000 sq foot apartment:
> 
> 10,000,000AED selling price.
> 
> Will rent for around 130K?
> 
> If rented, tenant pays 6500AED per annum in municipality fees.
> 
> Service charge of 56AED (I think that was it?)/sq ft:
> 
> Landlord nets 74,000AED per annum.
> 
> If NOT rented, owner pays 50,000AED per annum in municipaility fees (0.5% of purchase price) + 56,000AED service charge.
> 
> Cost to owner - 106,000AED per annum
> 
> :lol:
> 
> (propertymagnet - I'm guessing that for properties that are rented out on short-term holiday lets, the DEWA bill reamins in the owner's name, yes? So the owner has to pay the 0.5%)


yes i would agree, so is this 0.5% of the original price per month ongoing, is that what this means?


----------



## propertymagnet

gerald.d said:


> :lol:
> 
> I will refrain from making the blatantly obvious comment.


Good, i think its always better to be nice don't you?


----------



## gerald.d

Porcello said:


> I doubt... that was the price during the peak. If I remember well the original price was around 2500 per sq ft. But, again, there are workarounds for housing fees. Unfortunately no way to escape service charges which are simply ridiculous there.


Quick google for the Armani residences:

http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-downtown-dubai-81677.html

"for sale under original price"

And it's on sale for over 11K/sqft.

Could be bullshit though I guess.


----------



## gerald.d

MANUTD said:


> Why should she be happy to see you ?? :lol::lol:
> 
> Perhaps she was a CELTIC supporter !


You going to the game tonight?


----------



## Porcello

gerald.d said:


> Quick google for the Armani residences:
> 
> http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-downtown-dubai-81677.html
> 
> "for sale under original price"
> 
> And it's on sale for over 11K/sqft.
> 
> Could be bullshit though I guess.


For the Armani residences it might as well be... I was talking about the regular apartments in BK. Anyway, whoever bought Armani residences should not care about service charges or housing fees, I guess, as these guys must be filthy rich.


----------



## True Blue

propertymagnet said:


> Thanks Porcello for your reply. What does BK mean?


Took me a long time to get out of the habit of concluding it meant "Burger King". I guess that points more towards my cullinary habits.

BK = Burj Khalifa


----------



## True Blue

MANUTD said:


> Why should she be happy to see you ?? :lol::lol:
> 
> Perhaps she was a CELTIC supporter !


Thought they had to be British to work in imigration. Doesn't make sense to employ an imigrant worker to monitor imigrants:dunno: 

Suppose it takes one to know one


----------



## True Blue

HappyLarry said:


> Sorry to post here but can someone let us know where's best in Dubai to watch Champions League Final tomorrow night.


I have started using the sports bar at Hilton Jumeirah Beach on The Walk as it is 25AED a pint of draught beerkay:

Unfortunately I am in Scotland right now so won't be there tonight.


----------



## propertymagnet

True Blue said:


> Took me a long time to get out of the habit of concluding it meant "Burger King". I guess that points more towards my cullinary habits.
> 
> BK = Burj Khalifa



Thanks TB.....Forums should be for education, not abuse


----------



## worried4

*Cost of furnishing*

Does anybody have an idea as to the cost of furnishing a 750 Sq ft, 1 bedroom appartment to 5 star standards?:cheers:


----------



## propertymagnet

amplesou said:


> £3k if you do it yourself..
> 
> £23k if you get some one from dubai ...!!! :nuts:


£3000.00? Crikey, how do you break that down?

How much did you allow for electricals?

How much for window treatments, bedding, and linens.?

How much of your £3000.00 budget did you allow for a Television, DVD Player, Washing Machine, Music System, Fridge Freezer?



If the gentleman is looking for five star quality most of the budget that you have suggested wouldnt even buy a decent sofa let along anything else.

Would be interested to see what you would spend your £3000.00 on.

Do you sit on orange boxes and eat off the floor ?


----------



## noir-dresses

Most likely IKEA. 

Funny how some people pay all that money to buy an apartment, then short change them selves to finish it off properly.




propertymagnet said:


> £3000.00? Crikey, how do you break that down?
> 
> How much did you allow for electricals?
> 
> How much for window treatments, bedding, and linens.?
> 
> How much of your £3000.00 budget did you allow for a Television, DVD Player, Washing Machine, Music System, Fridge Freezer?
> 
> 
> 
> If the gentleman is looking for five star quality most of the budget that you have suggested wouldnt even buy a decent sofa let along anything else.
> 
> Would be interested to see what you would spend your £3000.00 on.
> 
> Do you sit on orange boxes and eat off the floor ?


----------



## MarkWass

£3k will go a long way at Ikea for furnishing a one bed flat. Although not ‘5 star’ of course…

I assume he was assuming that the £3k did not include any electricals. I guess as a short term guru, PM, you have to supply absolutely everything, right down to the finest detail.. eg including recent copies of sort of magazine that your clients might like to peruse while sipping their G&Ts (in crystal tumblers that you have supplied). 

On the other front being discussed at the mo, re the DEWA, municipality fees etc.. on top of service charges, perhaps in some ways I should be glad that the developers I reserved with have not done much building work yet!


----------



## worried4

*Folks a serious answer please*



MarkWass said:


> £3k will go a long way at Ikea for furnishing a one bed flat. Although not ‘5 star’ of course…
> 
> I assume he was assuming that the £3k did not include any electricals. I guess as a short term guru, PM, you have to supply absolutely everything, right down to the finest detail.. eg including recent copies of sort of magazine that your clients might like to peruse while sipping their G&Ts (in crystal tumblers that you have supplied).
> 
> On the other front being discussed at the mo, re the DEWA, municipality fees etc.. on top of service charges, perhaps in some ways I should be glad that the developers I reserved with have not done much building work yet!


Folks a serious answer please. Somebody who has actually done it please.


----------



## propertymagnet

worried4 said:


> Folks a serious answer please. Somebody who has actually done it please.



I think to give a proper answer you have to provide more information on what you require.

1. Are electrical appliances required, is so what?Branded or not?
2. Personal electrics /TV DVD player Music System etc etc branded or not?
3. Window treatments/roman blinds/curtains/verticals/venetians.Blackouts?
4. Feature Walls.?
5.Is there room for a dining table or is it stools around a breakfast bar?
6. Is there an entrance hallway to furnish.?
6. Is there an additional hallway to the bedroom.?
7. Does the apartment have a balcony, do you want outside furniture.?
8. Does the apartment have enough lighting. Do you want downlights , lamps and uplighters.?
9 . Leather sofa or fabric?
10.Is there enough sockets in the apartment. Is additional electrics required.
11.What tower is it in?
12. Do you need a kitchen shop(kettle toaster, glasses crockery cutlery etc?
13. Do you require the sofa to be a sofa bed or not?
14. How many bathrooms?
15. Does any of the bathrooms need a shower screen?



Do you want it to have the 'WOW' factor or do you want it to look like an 'Ikea Special'.Theres only one thing that separates the two and that is money.

If you can answer these then I can give you an idea of how much it would cost


----------



## propertymagnet

MarkWass said:


> £3k will go a long way at Ikea for furnishing a one bed flat. Although not ‘5 star’ of course…
> 
> I assume he was assuming that the £3k did not include any electricals. I guess as a short term guru, PM, you have to supply absolutely everything, right down to the finest detail.. eg including recent copies of sort of magazine that your clients might like to peruse while sipping their G&Ts (in crystal tumblers that you have supplied).
> 
> On the other front being discussed at the mo, re the DEWA, municipality fees etc.. on top of service charges, perhaps in some ways I should be glad that the developers I reserved with have not done much building work yet!


And I expect that are more charges to come. Yes we do provide the glossy magazines as well , im impressed you thought of that.
Not crystal glasses though


----------



## noir-dresses

It's not only money that separates it PM, taste, and style are a big factor as well.

I'm in fashion, practically the same type of people are in interior decorating so I can comfortably say this. 

Either you have style, or not, money doesn't make a difference, it only makes people look even stupider if they don't know what they're doing.




propertymagnet said:


> I think to give a proper answer you have to provide more information on what you require.
> 
> 1. Are electrical appliances required, is so what?Branded or not?
> 2. Personal electrics /TV DVD player Music System etc etc branded or not?
> 3. Window treatments/roman blinds/curtains/verticals/venetians.Blackouts?
> 4. Feature Walls.?
> 5.Is there room for a dining table or is it stools around a breakfast bar?
> 6. Is there an entrance hallway to furnish.?
> 6. Is there an additional hallway to the bedroom.?
> 7. Does the apartment have a balcony, do you want outside furniture.?
> 8. Does the apartment have enough lighting. Do you want downlights , lamps and uplighters.?
> 9 . Leather sofa or fabric?
> 10.Is there enough sockets in the apartment. Is additional electrics required.
> 11.What tower is it in?
> 12. Do you need a kitchen shop(kettle toaster, glasses crockery cutlery etc?
> 13. Do you require the sofa to be a sofa bed or not?
> 14. How many bathrooms?
> 15. Does any of the bathrooms need a shower screen?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want it to have the 'WOW' factor or do you want it to look like an 'Ikea Special'.Theres only one thing that separates the two and that is money.
> 
> If you can answer these then I can give you an idea of how much it would cost


----------



## propertymagnet

noir-dresses said:


> It's not only money that separates it PM, taste, and style are a big factor as well.
> 
> I'm in fashion, practically the same type of people are in interior decorating so I can comfortably say this.
> 
> Either you have style, or not, money doesn't make a difference, it only makes people look even stupider if they don't know what they're doing.


I completley agree, I just didnt want to say that. An equal amount of money can be spent on a project and it will look a complete hash done by one person and a million dollars by another. However £3000.00 isnt enough for a Wow Factor, I think that was the point I was trying to make, but quite poorly it seems


----------



## MarkWass

My wife always says '20 for 80' (as opposed to 100 for 100)... basically meaning relating to whatever it is.. if you do 20% of the work you can get 80% of the return. Having worked in property all my career, i think the '20 for 80%' thing here is definitely relevant. In my experience, and not trying to be too capitalist, fascist etc here (that's not me at all), but tenants don't really care if the label says 'ikea' or 'armani'.

Ps the best team wins..


----------



## propertymagnet

MarkWass said:


> My wife always says '20 for 80' (as opposed to 100 for 100)... basically meaning relating to whatever it is.. if you do 20% of the work you can get 80% of the return. Having worked in property all my career, i think the '20 for 80%' thing here is definitely relevant. In my experience, and not trying to be too capitalist, fascist etc here (that's not me at all), but tenants don't really care if the label says 'ikea' or 'armani'.
> 
> Ps the best team wins..



When you refer to the word 'tenant' what is it you are relating too?


----------



## MarkWass

propertymagnet said:


> When you refer to the word 'tenant' what is it you are relating too?


^^ By tenant I meant the person(s) renting the property, rather than long leaseholder or anything else.

In your 'thing', the '20 for 80' thing may not work so much for luxury short term rental, as the renters have more attention to detail and need higher quality, and will pay for that, so '60 for 90' or '70 for 95' may be more appropriate...


----------



## propertymagnet

MarkWass said:


> ^^ By tenant I meant the person(s) renting the property, rather than long leaseholder or anything else.
> 
> In your 'thing', the '20 for 80' thing may not work so much for luxury short term rental, as the renters have more attention to detail and need higher quality, and will pay for that, so '60 for 90' or '70 for 95' may be more appropriate...



ah sorry yes i understand now......


----------



## worried4

*Did not realize there were so many questions*



propertymagnet said:


> I think to give a proper answer you have to provide more information on what you require.
> 
> 1. Are electrical appliances required, is so what?Branded or not?
> 2. Personal electrics /TV DVD player Music System etc etc branded or not?
> 3. Window treatments/roman blinds/curtains/verticals/venetians.Blackouts?
> 4. Feature Walls.?
> 5.Is there room for a dining table or is it stools around a breakfast bar?
> 6. Is there an entrance hallway to furnish.?
> 6. Is there an additional hallway to the bedroom.?
> 7. Does the apartment have a balcony, do you want outside furniture.?
> 8. Does the apartment have enough lighting. Do you want downlights , lamps and uplighters.?
> 9 . Leather sofa or fabric?
> 10.Is there enough sockets in the apartment. Is additional electrics required.
> 11.What tower is it in?
> 12. Do you need a kitchen shop(kettle toaster, glasses crockery cutlery etc?
> 13. Do you require the sofa to be a sofa bed or not?
> 14. How many bathrooms?
> 15. Does any of the bathrooms need a shower screen?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want it to have the 'WOW' factor or do you want it to look like an 'Ikea Special'.Theres only one thing that separates the two and that is money.
> 
> If you can answer these then I can give you an idea of how much it would cost


 My problem is the following. THe builder said that the tower would be a 5 star service appartment and we had a rental guaranttee of 8% for 3 years. The builder has reneged on his deal and will now provide the bare walls. I dont intend to live there, but would want to rent the place as a 5 star service appartment. So essentially I would want to spend the least amount of money to make the appartment into a 5 star service appartment.


----------



## Porcello

worried4 said:


> My problem is the following. THe builder said that the tower would be a 5 star service appartment and we had a rental guaranttee of 8% for 3 years. The builder has reneged on his deal and will now provide the bare walls. I dont intend to live there, but would want to rent the place as a 5 star service appartment. So essentially I would want to spend the least amount of money to make the appartment into a 5 star service appartment.


Most of the money will go for kitchen and flooring; should you decide to replace the kitchen (normally the one provided by the developer sucks), you should budget around 50K AED to replace the kitchen with a medium quality brand that looks great (I'm thinking about Stosa from Ricci Milan)

If you want to reshape (partition, move electrical and piping, repaint, gypsum work, lay down A/V cabling, etc,) and renovate the apartment including the bathrooms (retiling, replacing bathtub with standing shower, etc.), that should also be around 30K all inclusive.
For furniture you should be spending around 30K all inclusive if you use medium-good furniture (Marina Furniture, Options, The One, etc.)
If you want to install wooden flooring, it goes from 30K for top of the range engineered real wood flooring to 5K for decent quality laminate from Dragon mart.


----------



## noir-dresses

Wooden floors are always great to have, but not in Dubai. The weather is your big problem, especially the humidity. I wouldn't recommend it even though I love Brazilian Cherry. Avoid laminate if you want a stylish apartment, that should be your very last option, or even better don't even put that into the equation.

Ceramic tiles are great if you know what your doing, mixing, and matching granite is also great, just don't go all white cause you'll get an office/hospital feel.

Doing an interior is an art, every thing has to blend together for the perfect feel. I would try, and get a Middle Eastern/Asian feel since the apartment is in Dubai. 



Porcello said:


> Most of the money will go for kitchen and flooring; should you decide to replace the kitchen (normally the one provided by the developer sucks), you should budget around 50K AED to replace the kitchen with a medium quality brand that looks great (I'm thinking about Stosa from Ricci Milan)
> 
> If you want to reshape (partition, move electrical and piping, repaint, gypsum work, lay down A/V cabling, etc,) and renovate the apartment including the bathrooms (retiling, replacing bathtub with standing shower, etc.), that should also be around 30K all inclusive.
> For furniture you should be spending around 30K all inclusive if you use medium-good furniture (Marina Furniture, Options, The One, etc.)
> If you want to install wooden flooring, it goes from 30K for top of the range engineered real wood flooring to 5K for decent quality laminate from Dragon mart.


----------



## True Blue

I would agree about the real wood floors, I have seen so many that warp with expansion then have gaping joints when the humidity comes down and the a/c is still required. They can also become quite noisey under foot creaking and cracking when you walk around.

I did see some really fantastic porcelain tiles that are completely believable as real wood. No scratches or gouges and no problem with moisture. Planning on doing one of my masterbeds using the procelain wood effect tiles. They even had weathered wood effect which would look great in a bathroom with the added advantage of being practically non slip.


----------



## propertymagnet

noir-dresses said:


> Wooden floors are always great to have, but not in Dubai. The weather is your big problem, especially the humidity. I wouldn't recommend it even though I love Brazilian Cherry. Avoid laminate if you want a stylish apartment, that should be your very last option, or even better don't even put that into the equation.
> 
> Ceramic tiles are great if you know what your doing, mixing, and matching granite is also great, just don't go all white cause you'll get an office/hospital feel.
> 
> Doing an interior is an art, every thing has to blend together for the perfect feel. I would try, and get a Middle Eastern/Asian feel since the apartment is in Dubai.


NO no no no no ! Sorry that's just my enthusiam. for my job ....The last thing you want is a 'middle eastern look'.........Because if you market correctly your guests are not going to be Middle Eastern, they should be European /and or American. (because they will pay the most money)
Arabs will want it cheap im afraid)Your apartment needs to be modern and fresh at todays standards , using the colour and textures that are current. That way when your potential guests are looking at all the choice that is available to them your apartment will stand head and shoulders above the rest.Middle Eastern/Arabic look is ugly, its gross, old fashioned and will not bring you business. And the most important thing of all is to look at this as a business, not bring in any emotion whatsoever you might have to your asset, because emotion clouds making the right decision, and the right decision is what will bring in the most revenue.As Noir Dresses as stated, this is an art, and there is a great deal involved in getting the right look. And what I see time and time again is owners trying to 'cut back' right from the beginning. This is so so so wrong.
If you dont get it right form the offset, your asset will never ever make you good enough money.You have to invest the right money to get the right return.
Ive just returned from Dubai, a week ago today in fact, I refurbed a 2 bedroomed apartment, with a new kitchen, bathrooms etc and full furniture pack. 7 days later yes 7 DAYS I have already GROSSED for that owner £4472.00 with a total of 4 separate bookings. Not bad hey? But it can be done, the reason this apartment has done so well is because I had a clean slate to start with. I never had to work with anyone else's tat and I could start right from the beginning and take out the appalling kitchens and bathrooms which is so common in Dubai , and change it to what really should of been delivered in the first place!!! 
So having champagne taste with beer money isnt the answer. If you want to do this right you have got to invest the right money. because Dubai will be flooded with owners that will cater to the cheap end of the market, because that is what there apartment represents, you will be fighting with hundreds if not thousands at some stage all in the bottom end of the market, because loads and loads of owners will go down the Holiday Let route beccause it is far less risk for them now because the long term rents are so so poor.
But get it right, make your apartment stand out and you will book it out, because there are a huge amount of people that visit Dubai that want 'grandeur and quality; but its so hard for them, because not many STR's will be able to meet there demands so they will stay with hotels...


----------



## propertymagnet

worried4 said:


> My problem is the following. THe builder said that the tower would be a 5 star service appartment and we had a rental guaranttee of 8% for 3 years. The builder has reneged on his deal and will now provide the bare walls. I dont intend to live there, but would want to rent the place as a 5 star service appartment. So essentially I would want to spend the least amount of money to make the appartment into a 5 star service appartment.


I think everybody was promised all sorts of things in Dubai, we've all been let down at some stage im certain of it ..Do you have any interior pics of the apartment you could send me, or even which tower it's in?


----------



## propertymagnet

Porcello said:


> Most of the money will go for kitchen and flooring; should you decide to replace the kitchen (normally the one provided by the developer sucks), you should budget around 50K AED to replace the kitchen with a medium quality brand that looks great (I'm thinking about Stosa from Ricci Milan)
> 
> If you want to reshape (partition, move electrical and piping, repaint, gypsum work, lay down A/V cabling, etc,) and renovate the apartment including the bathrooms (retiling, replacing bathtub with standing shower, etc.), that should also be around 30K all inclusive.
> For furniture you should be spending around 30K all inclusive if you use medium-good furniture (Marina Furniture, Options, The One, etc.)
> If you want to install wooden flooring, it goes from 30K for top of the range engineered real wood flooring to 5K for decent quality laminate from Dragon mart.


Are you saying then that for a new kitchen, bathrooms (how many )and a furniture pack would be 110,000 dhs. (without flooring).Did your price includes electrical and appliance or would they be an additional cost.
And how many bathrooms would the price be for. thanks in advance.
And I would assume that because you've given the price in DHS this would be local labour that would be used is that correct?


----------



## gerald.d

What are the advertising rates for this site again?


----------



## noir-dresses

I'm referring to the Middle Eastern look if I were to renovate my apartment for my self in Dubai, which I always had in mind once my neighborhood was finished. Honestly even when I book a hotel in Dubai I like that feel, that's why I've been staying at the Palace Hotel Old Town Island the last couple of times I've been there. That's the whole thing about coming to Dubai for me.

I'm probably a little different than most vacationers in Dubai because I already have that " real " Mediterranean European life style in Europe, Croatia to be more precise. I already have the beach, sun, 24 hour a day parties on one of the most beautiful coast lines in the world.

I also have that ultra modern look with my condo, and house in Canada, not to mention my parents condo in Florida.

This is why that Middle Eastern feel does it for me in Dubai, its the change that nurtures me there, and I love it. Throw in some Middle Eastern food, music, a shisha, and I'm good to go. 

You are absolutely right in your way to do a interior if it's to be rented on a daily basis, and you have the experience to back it up.




propertymagnet said:


> NO no no no no ! Sorry that's just my enthusiam. for my job ....The last thing you want is a 'middle eastern look'.........Because if you market correctly your guests are not going to be Middle Eastern, they should be European /and or American. (because they will pay the most money)
> Arabs will want it cheap im afraid)Your apartment needs to be modern and fresh at todays standards , using the colour and textures that are current. That way when your potential guests are looking at all the choice that is available to them your apartment will stand head and shoulders above the rest.Middle Eastern/Arabic look is ugly, its gross, old fashioned and will not bring you business. And the most important thing of all is to look at this as a business, not bring in any emotion whatsoever you might have to your asset, because emotion clouds making the right decision, and the right decision is what will bring in the most revenue.As Noir Dresses as stated, this is an art, and there is a great deal involved in getting the right look. And what I see time and time again is owners trying to 'cut back' right from the beginning. This is so so so wrong.
> If you dont get it right form the offset, your asset will never ever make you good enough money.You have to invest the right money to get the right return.
> Ive just returned from Dubai, a week ago today in fact, I refurbed a 2 bedroomed apartment, with a new kitchen, bathrooms etc and full furniture pack. 7 days later yes 7 DAYS I have already GROSSED for that owner £4472.00 with a total of 4 separate bookings. Not bad hey? But it can be done, the reason this apartment has done so well is because I had a clean slate to start with. I never had to work with anyone else's tat and I could start right from the beginning and take out the appalling kitchens and bathrooms which is so common in Dubai , and change it to what really should of been delivered in the first place!!!
> So having champagne taste with beer money isnt the answer. If you want to do this right you have got to invest the right money. because Dubai will be flooded with owners that will cater to the cheap end of the market, because that is what there apartment represents, you will be fighting with hundreds if not thousands at some stage all in the bottom end of the market, because loads and loads of owners will go down the Holiday Let route beccause it is far less risk for them now because the long term rents are so so poor.
> But get it right, make your apartment stand out and you will book it out, because there are a huge amount of people that visit Dubai that want 'grandeur and quality; but its so hard for them, because not many STR's will be able to meet there demands so they will stay with hotels...


----------



## propertymagnet

noir-dresses said:


> I'm referring to the Middle Eastern look if I were to renovate my apartment for my self in Dubai, which I always had in mind once my neighborhood was finished. Honestly even when I book a hotel in Dubai I like that feel, that's why I've been staying at the Palace Hotel Old Town Island the last couple of times I've been there. That's the whole thing about coming to Dubai for me.
> 
> I'm probably a little different than most vacationers in Dubai because I already have that " real " Mediterranean European life style in Europe, Croatia to be more precise. I already have the beach, sun, 24 hour a day parties on one of the most beautiful coast lines in the world.
> 
> I also have that ultra modern look with my condo, and house in Canada, not to mention my parents condo in Florida.
> 
> This is why that Middle Eastern feel does it for me in Dubai, its the change that nurtures me there, and I love it. Throw in some Middle Eastern food, music, a shisha, and I'm good to go.
> 
> You are absolutely right in your way to do a interior if it's to be rented on a daily basis, and you have the experience to back it up.



In which case Yes you are correct.Where is your parents home in Florida?
I will be in Florida next month, I spend a whole lot of time there, I love the place........


----------



## Porcello

propertymagnet said:


> Are you saying then that for a new kitchen, bathrooms (how many )and a furniture pack would be 110,000 dhs. (without flooring).Did your price includes electrical and appliance or would they be an additional cost.
> And how many bathrooms would the price be for. thanks in advance.
> And I would assume that because you've given the price in DHS this would be local labour that would be used is that correct?


Correct, two bathrooms (typical in Dubai for 1br) including electrical and all the appliances. Using local labour, of course, but medium-good quality (almost european standard); difficult to find but possible.


----------



## Porcello

True Blue said:


> I would agree about the real wood floors, I have seen so many that warp with expansion then have gaping joints when the humidity comes down and the a/c is still required. They can also become quite noisey under foot creaking and cracking when you walk around.
> 
> I did see some really fantastic porcelain tiles that are completely believable as real wood. No scratches or gouges and no problem with moisture. Planning on doing one of my masterbeds using the procelain wood effect tiles. They even had weathered wood effect which would look great in a bathroom with the added advantage of being practically non slip.


I agree with your point of view on porcelain, but real wood is not a big problem in Dubai as long as you use engineered wood and not wood blocks (because those will indeed expand too much in a single direction).
If you use engineered with proper expansion gaps you will not have any problems and actually it will help to keep humidity in the apartment under control. Wooden floors on villas are a bit more problematic for sand, dust, and higher humidity levels.


----------



## Josau

*From the National*
Property buyers face improper fees
Kevin Brass
Jun 1, 2011 

Developers in Dubai are routinely overcharging home buyers thousands of dirhams in registration fees and for service charges, property experts say.

The practice is "massively widespread", said Michael Lunjevich, a partner in the law firm Hadef & Partners.

More buyers are complaining about the fees in Dubai, as cash-strapped developers finish projects started in the boom years.

Ratnakar Mallar is challenging Dh8,000 (US$2,100) of administration and registration fees a developer is demanding before he can take over a two-bedroom apartment in a new development in Dubailand.

"It is not fair," said Mr Mallar, who works in the construction industry. "It's not part of the agreement and it adds salt to the injury of an already loss-making proposition."

In some cases, developers are ignoring the law by asking buyers to pay inappropriate fees, said Mr Lunjevich, a property specialist. A survey of 350 buyers and industry executives conducted by his firm and released yesterday found developers were commonly imposing service charges without following Dubai's new strata guidelines.

"The survey confirms that many developers are not aware of or are wilfully ignoring the current regulations surrounding jointly owned property," the law firm's report said.

The Strata Law, which went into effect last year, requires developers to obtain approval of their fees from the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) and provide audits of expenses until homeowners can form their own associations.

But many developers have delayed turning over control of maintenance in projects to interim homeowners associations, said Graham Yeates, the head of ownership management for the UAE office of the property firm Cluttons.


"They see it as a profit centre," Mr Yeates said. "If owners take over, there wouldn't be a profit margin."

Many of the laws governing registration and administration fees date to 2008, but there is still confusion about what developers can and cannot charge.

Only the Dubai Land Department can legally collect fees for registering property, Mr Lunjevich said. But some developers charge a separate property registration fee, often as much as Dh5,000.

"People don't know [the developers] can't charge, so they just pay," Mr Lunjevich said. "I can't think of how many thousands of fees have been paid without questioning."

Developers can charge only a Dh500 administrative fee for projects under construction, according to the Hadef & Partners report. However, unexpected administrative fees are a "widespread issue throughout Dubai", the report found.

Buyers are also being charged between Dh500 and Dh5,000 by developers for no-objection letters, required by the Dubai Land Department to transfer properties.

"The basis of calculating these charges is unknown and there is no hard and fast rule in Dubai that makes it mandatory for developers to be transparent about the costs they intend imposing on purchasers or owners of freehold properties. Buyers are confused," said Tomas Ghassemi, the managing director of the Property Store.

There was often no way to predict what fees a developer would charge, he said.

The fees were hurting the property market and making purchases costly and complicated for many investors, Hadef & Partners concluded.

[email protected]


----------



## Towers3

Josau said:


> *From the National*
> Property buyers face improper fees
> Kevin Brass
> Jun 1, 2011
> 
> Developers in Dubai are routinely overcharging home buyers thousands of dirhams in registration fees and for service charges, property experts say.
> 
> The practice is "massively widespread", said Michael Lunjevich, a partner in the law firm Hadef & Partners.
> 
> More buyers are complaining about the fees in Dubai, as cash-strapped developers finish projects started in the boom years.
> 
> Ratnakar Mallar is challenging Dh8,000 (US$2,100) of administration and registration fees a developer is demanding before he can take over a two-bedroom apartment in a new development in Dubailand.
> 
> "It is not fair," said Mr Mallar, who works in the construction industry. "It's not part of the agreement and it adds salt to the injury of an already loss-making proposition."
> 
> In some cases, developers are ignoring the law by asking buyers to pay inappropriate fees, said Mr Lunjevich, a property specialist. A survey of 350 buyers and industry executives conducted by his firm and released yesterday found developers were commonly imposing service charges without following Dubai's new strata guidelines.
> 
> "The survey confirms that many developers are not aware of or are wilfully ignoring the current regulations surrounding jointly owned property," the law firm's report said.
> 
> The Strata Law, which went into effect last year, requires developers to obtain approval of their fees from the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) and provide audits of expenses until homeowners can form their own associations.
> 
> But many developers have delayed turning over control of maintenance in projects to interim homeowners associations, said Graham Yeates, the head of ownership management for the UAE office of the property firm Cluttons.
> 
> 
> "They see it as a profit centre," Mr Yeates said. "If owners take over, there wouldn't be a profit margin."
> 
> Many of the laws governing registration and administration fees date to 2008, but there is still confusion about what developers can and cannot charge.
> 
> Only the Dubai Land Department can legally collect fees for registering property, Mr Lunjevich said. But some developers charge a separate property registration fee, often as much as Dh5,000.
> 
> "People don't know [the developers] can't charge, so they just pay," Mr Lunjevich said. "I can't think of how many thousands of fees have been paid without questioning."
> 
> Developers can charge only a Dh500 administrative fee for projects under construction, according to the Hadef & Partners report. However, unexpected administrative fees are a "widespread issue throughout Dubai", the report found.
> 
> Buyers are also being charged between Dh500 and Dh5,000 by developers for no-objection letters, required by the Dubai Land Department to transfer properties.
> 
> "The basis of calculating these charges is unknown and there is no hard and fast rule in Dubai that makes it mandatory for developers to be transparent about the costs they intend imposing on purchasers or owners of freehold properties. Buyers are confused," said Tomas Ghassemi, the managing director of the Property Store.
> 
> There was often no way to predict what fees a developer would charge, he said.
> 
> The fees were hurting the property market and making purchases costly and complicated for many investors, Hadef & Partners concluded.
> 
> [email protected]


Info/Advice in the link below about that, its disgusting, Developers are allowed to get away with this! No-one will invest in Dubai until it stops! Don't pay until completion! 

http://www.emirates247.com/columns/...ect-here-are-your-options-2011-05-31-1.328223


----------



## Towers3

Josau said:


> *From the National*
> Property buyers face improper fees
> Kevin Brass
> Jun 1, 2011
> 
> Developers in Dubai are routinely overcharging home buyers thousands of dirhams in registration fees and for service charges, property experts say.
> 
> The practice is "massively widespread", said Michael Lunjevich, a partner in the law firm Hadef & Partners.
> 
> More buyers are complaining about the fees in Dubai, as cash-strapped developers finish projects started in the boom years.
> 
> Ratnakar Mallar is challenging Dh8,000 (US$2,100) of administration and registration fees a developer is demanding before he can take over a two-bedroom apartment in a new development in Dubailand.
> 
> "It is not fair," said Mr Mallar, who works in the construction industry. "It's not part of the agreement and it adds salt to the injury of an already loss-making proposition."
> 
> In some cases, developers are ignoring the law by asking buyers to pay inappropriate fees, said Mr Lunjevich, a property specialist. A survey of 350 buyers and industry executives conducted by his firm and released yesterday found developers were commonly imposing service charges without following Dubai's new strata guidelines.
> 
> "The survey confirms that many developers are not aware of or are wilfully ignoring the current regulations surrounding jointly owned property," the law firm's report said.
> 
> The Strata Law, which went into effect last year, requires developers to obtain approval of their fees from the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) and provide audits of expenses until homeowners can form their own associations.
> 
> But many developers have delayed turning over control of maintenance in projects to interim homeowners associations, said Graham Yeates, the head of ownership management for the UAE office of the property firm Cluttons.
> 
> 
> "They see it as a profit centre," Mr Yeates said. "If owners take over, there wouldn't be a profit margin."
> 
> Many of the laws governing registration and administration fees date to 2008, but there is still confusion about what developers can and cannot charge.
> 
> Only the Dubai Land Department can legally collect fees for registering property, Mr Lunjevich said. But some developers charge a separate property registration fee, often as much as Dh5,000.
> 
> "People don't know [the developers] can't charge, so they just pay," Mr Lunjevich said. "I can't think of how many thousands of fees have been paid without questioning."
> 
> Developers can charge only a Dh500 administrative fee for projects under construction, according to the Hadef & Partners report. However, unexpected administrative fees are a "widespread issue throughout Dubai", the report found.
> 
> Buyers are also being charged between Dh500 and Dh5,000 by developers for no-objection letters, required by the Dubai Land Department to transfer properties.
> 
> "The basis of calculating these charges is unknown and there is no hard and fast rule in Dubai that makes it mandatory for developers to be transparent about the costs they intend imposing on purchasers or owners of freehold properties. Buyers are confused," said Tomas Ghassemi, the managing director of the Property Store.
> 
> There was often no way to predict what fees a developer would charge, he said.
> 
> The fees were hurting the property market and making purchases costly and complicated for many investors, Hadef & Partners concluded.
> 
> [email protected]


I am an investor in a project in Dubai Sports City. The developer is demanding Dh2,000 for Oqood registration (Dh1,000 for registration and Dh1,000 for administration). We feel this is the start of a worrying trend regarding completion fees, as they are also insisting on connection fees for electricity /water/ sewage etc. 

The issue of so-called “completion fees” is increasingly becoming a prevalent one. In many cases such fees are a surprise, as they were not previously agreed on. In other cases, they seem disproportional to the nature of what they are meant to cover. In general, once accumulated, they add up to a substantial amount, which is often a point of especial discontent given the gross delays in delivery and poor quality of many properties. 
Also, many question as to whether these fees are fees authorised by the relevant government authority, ie Dewa and collected by the developers on behalf of the government or whether they are just another method for developers to collect additional revenue. 
With regards to the legal bases to contest such fees, there are a number of things property owners should consider. First, it is important to review the underlying sales and purchase contract to determine whether any such fees were provided for and agreed on. 
If some of these fees had been initially disclosed, it may be more difficult to argue now as to their inappropriateness. That being said, there is an argument to be made that, even in those circumstances, such fees should either be waived all together or heavily discounted to account for the gross delay in the delivery or poor quality of the property. 
Then, it is paramount to request a detailed and complete list of all of the fees before paying, so as to avoid any further surprises. 
Depending on what those fees are, there may be ways to verify them with the government authorities responsible for the services the fees are meant to cover, otherwise known as the actual service providers. 
Also, fees paid to such third-party (i.e. not developers) service provider could be paid directly in the name of that service provider, such as Dewa and chilled water bills. The problem here, however, is that in many cases developers have negotiated to manage collection of such fees on behalf of the service providers. 
In such cases, there is almost always a premium that is added on the bill to allegedly compensate developers for handling collection of fees for the service provider. 
The Land Department registration fees, however, should be paid directly to the Land Department. If the developer insists otherwise, the issue should then be raised with the Land Department. 
There are some administrative fees payable to the developer for their internal administration that the Land Department authorises. 
It is important, therefore, to establish clearly which fees are for what. And more importantly, try to have in writing a detailed account of all of the fees and confirmation of their finality. 
Send in your property questions to [email protected]

I purchased a property to be developed by a publicly listed property development company in Dubailand.The builder was supposed to deliver the project by March of 2010 and now its been told that it has been indefinitely delayed due to delays from the master developer and they cannot give a new delivery date.
They has been consistently taking payments towards the project under the pretext that this is as per the RERA rules. I have paid 65 per cent towards this project with no delivery dates promised. What are my options here realistically? Can I force the developer to refund my full payment due to their inability to satisfy their commitments? Are there options to renegotiate this contract for a lower value due to these contractual issue? Are there options to make the developer only ask any further paymens after the completion of the project and when they are ready for handover?
A delay in the delivery of a project, especially a significant delay, can amount to a purchaser’s right to rescind the contract and his entitlement to receive a full refund. Some contracts specifically provide that, should the developer fail to deliver by a certain date, the purchaser may rescind the contract and receive his money back.
Contracts, which do not specify such remedy, may still be subject to the same recourse under the U.A.E. law. Thus, in cases where a developer significantly delays the project and, especially, where construction is barely, if at all, proceeding, the purchaser can rely on the UAE law to terminate the contract.
Specifically, under Article 272 of the Civil Code, “_n bilateral contracts, if either party fails to satisfy his obligations under the contract, the other contracting party may, after giving notice to the debtor, apply for the performance or its termination.” Also, under Article 82 of UAE Commercial Transactions Law, Law No. 18 of 1993, “if a date for the performance of the contract has been fixed and such a time has expired without performance on the part of the debtor; thereafter, the creditor shall not be obliged to accept the performance.”
Developers are increasingly beginning to cite force majeure as an excuse for performing under the contract. In particular, they cite the master developer’s alleged delay in the delivery of the plot as one of the reasons. Legally speaking, this argument, however, should not carry much weight. Developers should not have had the right to sell the property prior to master developer having handed it over to them.
Therefore, under the law, in such circumstances, the investor may have the right to rescind the contract and request a full refund. In practice, however, enforcing that right against the developer almost always means having to file a lawsuit. Very few developers, if any, offer refunds voluntarily. For many, the reason is that they simply do not have the funds to do so.
Because of this, it may be more commercially reasonable to negotiate with the developer to transfer the credit into another, but viable, project. Some developers are finally starting to offer such options.
In doing so, however, many continue to try to hold investors committed to nearly the same prices and specifications, in an effort to raise more money. The advice for investors is to insist that the developer:
1) reduce the selling price to bring it more in line with the current market price, 2) consolidate or reduce the size of the investment, so that a greater percentage is paid off, 3) offer better quality property and/or 4) set a more favorable payment plan for the remainder of the price. Because in such cases, at least legally speaking, developers are in the wrong and, thereby, are in the weaker position, investors should vigorously negotiate on terms that are more favorable to them. While some developer may still not yield, investors should, at the very least, try.
Send in your property questions to [email protected]_


----------



## dubayyy

TerryPop said:


> Is anybody here considering buying back into the market yet?
> 
> It is beginning to look tempting to get back in subject to buying completed units only, and (for me) Nakheel projects only.


I find the current market very tempting. In terms of Nakheel properties I think the price of LH Shorelines and Golden Mile properties is very tempting just now at around 750 - 800 dhs/sqft on the Palm.

The only other place I would consider is the Old Town but prices are still resilient here.

I think there may be a little further drop during the quiet summer months and then prices will stabilise for a couple of years.


----------



## Ahmed N

Ahmed N said:


> wow, at this rate I will be in the grave when its finished.
> 
> 8 workers, no wonder Al Sharaawy is not replying to my request to post updates and pictures, there is nothing to report!!! what are we going to do.


I contacted the CEO of RERA who sent my e-mail to Mr El Sharaawy, he then replied

"You may contact Mr. George (Dubai star project manager) on +971502345116, he will be more précis for his work.



Please note that we mentioned earlier that 30th floor will reach within 4 month of start (ie 20/8/2011)



Best Regards

Mohamed El Shaarawy

Head of Real Estate External Relations"


----------



## Porcello

Ahmed N said:


> I contacted the CEO of RERA who sent my e-mail to Mr El Sharaawy, he then replied
> 
> "You may contact Mr. George (Dubai star project manager) on +971502345116, he will be more précis for his work.
> 
> 
> 
> Please note that we mentioned earlier that 30th floor will reach within 4 month of start (ie 20/8/2011)
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Mohamed El Shaarawy
> 
> Head of Real Estate External Relations"


One floor in 3 months, then. Better than nothing, I guess.


----------



## True Blue

Why Nakheel only? I think Emaar turned out to be the star between the two.

Nakheel are still at risk and have a bad habit of not paying Dewa etc so you get your communal services cut off.

Beware also the Golden Mile is subject to a massive claim at the moment and Nakheel have been removed from the umbrella of DP so they might stand or fall depending on how they perform over the next year. They still owe contractors billions in unpaid bills.


----------



## Porcello

True Blue said:


> Why Nakheel only? I think Emaar turned out to be the star between the two.
> 
> Nakheel are still at risk and have a bad habit of not paying Dewa etc so you get your communal services cut off.


Maybe he has a credit note in his hands


----------



## DXBQuantum

I don't think I could deal with Nakheel again, I rather bite my own arm off.


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> Why Nakheel only? I think Emaar turned out to be the star between the two.
> 
> Nakheel are still at risk and have a bad habit of not paying Dewa etc so you get your communal services cut off.
> 
> Beware also the Golden Mile is subject to a massive claim at the moment and Nakheel have been removed from the umbrella of DP so they might stand or fall depending on how they perform over the next year. They still owe contractors billions in unpaid bills.



Nakheel has loads of upside & right now everybody hates them and its priced in.

Fast forward a few years...


----------



## mowy2611

Hi Guys,

I just saw the below article on Arabianbusiness.com 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-developers-net-illegal-fees-from-buyers-403091.html

I don't know about you but I was charged 5000 dhs by ACI to register my property under something called "Oqood"

Have you been charged the same?


----------



## Ahmed N

mowy2611 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I just saw the below article on Arabianbusiness.com
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-developers-net-illegal-fees-from-buyers-403091.html
> 
> I don't know about you but I was charged 5000 dhs by ACI to register my property under something called "Oqood"
> 
> Have you been charged the same?


Yep, we also paid ACI 5000 for registration. Its all a CON, from the developers, to builders, to RERA it self. When you seek help and guidance you get nothing at all. They will all have to answer for their bad deeds, they wont get away from it...


----------



## 234sale

DXBQuantum said:


> I don't think I could deal with Nakheel again, I rather bite my own arm off.


^^ think this perception has stuck with many..


----------



## propertymagnet

TerryPop said:


> Short letting apartments requires a trade license so you are carrying some risk (even tho you may never be caught)
> 
> 
> So the answer to that then is to make sure you have a UAE sponsor.
> 
> You can hand it over to a company that has the the required 'trade license' but then you will lose a large chunk of profit
> 
> 
> Not if you do it right, and you have family that are married to a local
> 
> Once Home owners assoc do formalise- they may themselves vote against allowing short lets within the building
> 
> What would be the purpose of that? Doesn't make sense. Why would a OA cut off there revenue stream , by stopping short term lets....????? Thats nonsense to me....
> 
> Can you tell me how you deal with the above please- as I would like to look into short letting as a sustainable business in Dubai.


Most people do not make a success out of short term renting,(worldwide) as they don't have the ability, time , or effort to put into it to make it work.
However for those that do, do it properly right from the off, its very very rewardable. However my experience of landlords, is they take the easiest route most of the time, for as little expenditure they can get away with, this atttitude doesn't cut it in the holiday market im afraid, so the transition for them doesn't work.Its completley alien to anything they have ever done before, and the previous knowledge of being a landlord has no bearing on this market whatsover .Its two completley different businesses, and needs to be treated as such.What skills do you have to bring to the table to make a holiday let work? More importantly what skills do you think is required.?

Please dont get me wrong, its very easy to throw in a cheap bed, tv, and advertise your property for rent. Its another thing totally to get high rents, and convert the enquiry into a booking. There is certainly a market for all types, but most apartments in Dubai fall into the first category in my opinion, they all look 'very samey' and what happens is those apartments are only able to sell on price alone. These type of apartments and there owners and booking agents will drive down the prices , because they have no clue whatsover how to market to a clientele that has more money to spend.
And at the end of the day if you dont market your property to the high end , you will be better off financially in a long term rentals, because the costs associated with short term rentals are a lot lot higher.
Do it right and you can make money, take short cuts from the start and you will be sorry you every started.Because if you don't do it right, and you dont have everything in place, short term rentals will be one massive headache...


----------



## propertymagnet

I just ought to point out, 'success in renting' to me means making a substantial profit after all costs are paid, it doesnt mean breaking even, it doesnt mean nearly breaking even, and it doesnt mean having a few weeks booked. It means a good profit. Because for all the effort and time that needs to be put in, I think it deserves a susbstantial reward for that. . So there might be many that cover costs, or even have a little pin money left over, but this isn't success in my eyes, to me that is a lot of hard work for nothing, a road im not prepared to go down.Because the alternative to little reward would be long term renting, which requires little or no effort


----------



## dubaiprojects

*UK investors- Please advise*

Investment looks attractive, but I am not sure after first year of rental guarantee, what will happen next? Any advise pls? 
Getting 29,467 AED from investing 293,760 AED is not bad??


Alexander Terrace.
ocated in the absolute heart of Liverpool, and just a stones throw from Lime Street Station, it also sits right next to two of the largest campuses belonging to John Moore’s University. I have attached a map for you here for you to see it’s superior location.

Please find further reading here for the supply/demand of Liverpool student housing.

http://www.property-magazine.eu/many-students-and-problems-with-housing-in-liverpool-15719.html

Alexander Terrace is a stunning 19th century listed building which will house 98 large en-suite units. 

Price
Gross Income
Main and expenses
Man Fee @ 8%
Net Income
Net Yield
£48,000
£6,375
£1,050
£510
£4,815
10.03%

*Rental assurance starts from March 1st 2012 for 12 months.

Development Amenities:

· On-site gymnasium

· En-suite facilities

· Computer/media service centre

· Management office

· Laundry facilities

· Kitchens

· Bathrooms

· TV/ Common rooms



Payment schedule:

£2,500 – Deposit required on reservation

£27,500 - First payment due 21 days from planning consent, expected August 2011

£18,000 – Balance required on completion, expected 1st March 2012


----------



## propertymagnet

Rental guarantee's are not worth the paper they are written on. In most cases the developer is giving you back your own money as the property is usually overpriced in the first instance....


----------



## Tony 90

Can anyone suggest a company that offers home insurance in Dubai?
I used to use Hiscox but they longer cover the UAE, the only other company I can find is Intasure.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.


----------



## Jodel

Apartment or villa??

With an apartment it is of course contents only, & usually priced on number of rooms. We pay 550dhs per year with AXA (through HSBC Premier) this is for 2000 sq. ft 3 bed + maids apt. It also cover for replacement of docs. such as passports/visa etc.
Hope this helps
Jo


----------



## Jodel

dubaiprojects said:


> I am not sure after first year of rental guarantee, what will happen next?pls? *** You must think of the "1st year rent" as just a discount on the puchase price. Most students in the North of UK pay max. 75 GBP per week. That is for their own room in a house share with their mates. After the 1st year your "unit" income may be around say
> 2500 GBP per year so after costs maybe "just wiping it's face" On the + side,- the calculation of profit usually spreads the initial purchase price over maybe 10 years, so..... after Ist year the GP will be seen as a lot higher than 10%
> 
> 
> Getting 29,467 AED from investing 293,760 AED is not bad??
> **** This is a UK investment so exchange rate fluctuation must be considered. Think in GBP all the time except on the day when you buy & the day when you sell. Plenty of these units are being advertised as resales on UK sites such as Prime location, Rightmove etc @ 43000GBP.So the deposit has been paid, & now the flippers are getting out as the next big bit is due in Aug. **What does that remind you of:lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Alexander Terrace is a stunning 19th century listed building which will house 98 large en-suite units. ***This word "large" is not used anywhere else. The "units" are called pods every where else
> 
> If you have plenty of GBP around it could be worth it but def. not if you are converting AED at the moment.... just my opinion of course but hope it helps


----------



## propertymagnet

Tony 90 said:


> Can anyone suggest a company that offers home insurance in Dubai?
> I used to use Hiscox but they longer cover the UAE, the only other company I can find is Intasure.
> Any suggestions greatly appreciated.


I use Intasure Tony, havnt really found anyone else....There insurance seems comprehensive enough, but until something goes wrong we won't find out i guess..


----------



## speculator

Tony 90 said:


> Can anyone suggest a company that offers home insurance in Dubai?
> I used to use Hiscox but they longer cover the UAE, the only other company I can find is Intasure.
> Any suggestions greatly appreciated.



Axa : 0097143150202


----------



## BenjiDXB

I have a question please> I am a landlord in JLT and the first year of the tenancy contract is soon over. If the tenant asks for a reduction of the rent, and I am not willing to accept, can I ask him to move out ? I remember there was a rule that he has the right to stay for 3 years or somehting ? Thank you !!!


----------



## Imre

BenjiDXB said:


> I have a question please> I am a landlord in JLT and the first year of the tenancy contract is soon over. If the tenant asks for a reduction of the rent, and I am not willing to accept, can I ask him to move out ? I remember there was a rule that he has the right to stay for 3 years or somehting ? Thank you !!!


He has to move out !


----------



## rags

*Short Let Licence*



TerryPop said:


> Short letting apartments requires a trade license so you are carrying some risk (even tho you may never be caught)
> 
> You can hand it over to a company that has the the required 'trade license' but then you will lose a large chunk of profit
> 
> Once Home owners assoc do formalise- they may themselves vote against allowing short lets within the building
> 
> Can you tell me how you deal with the above please- as I would like to look into short letting as a sustainable business in Dubai.


Hi TerryPop,

Where is it stated that Short Let requires Trade Licence? Also, is Trade licence given in Dubai only to a local UAE citizen/ firm even for short lets of approved freehold apts legally owned by foreigners?

Rags.


----------



## bizzybonita

One of the best channel that discuss and analysis of Real Estate regularly but it's only on Arabic called CNBC ARABIA . (one of reliable sources of Middle East Real Estate sector ) 

Interesting topic 

A survey conducted by Reuters that it expected prices to fall Houses in Dubai - which already got about 60 percent for Peak levels in 2008 *increased by ten percent Again during the next two years with the entry of new units by the market Abundance in the supply already. *

The proportion of units vacant shopping centers in Dubai between 15 And 30 percent paid as the competition heats up between the centers companies Retail stores to shut down her poor performance. 

The report said the hotel market is the closest sector of the end of the landing With a high number of visitors in 2010, occupancy rates and the attainment of 70 Percent, on average, surpassing its counterpart in the major cities In the region.



http://www.cnbcarabia.com/cnbc-port...etSectorsArticle_INSTANCE_FFjA_article-type=3


----------



## skinnygirl

axe2grind said:


> Dubaiiscool,
> 
> Posting misleading and uninformed information like this without comment really isn't on unless you provide the actual completion date as well!!! So how long is it going to take to complete the final 13%?
> 
> The photograph you have posted clearly shows there is a lot of work to do externally and the internals cannot be progressed properly unless there is wild air provided to the building so that the timber floors, doors, kitchen units, wardrobes, plasterboard ceilings and walls can be installed without damage due to high humidity.
> 
> Carrying on with the work the way it is at present will only lead to numerous snagging problems later. Maintaining temporary power to these units until they are capable of being handed over will cost a fortune and who is expected to pay for it?
> 
> The logic behind Sunlands planning of this project mistifies me and I wish they would be a little more forthcoming about how they are going to do it because I only see a disaster in the making. But prove me wrong Sunland by letting us all in on the secret. Too much crystal ball gazing me thinks.


I have read quite a few of the negative comments regarding the finance and infrastucture issues surrounding the PV and am a little confused.

As far as I am aware, Sunland are continuing to build the PV (and the D1 for that matter). 
Sunland still own quite of lot of both developments either because they held back some apartments/condos from their initial sales push or because they have repossessed them from defaulting owners.
There is no Off Plan market so these developments won't be worth anything (to either Sunland or other investors) until they are Complete.
Investors will not pay the last installment of their payment plan until the developments are Complete. And Complete means that there is adequate infrastructure in place.

My conclusion therefore is that Sunland and the investors in the PV and D1 are all in the same boat and that if Sunland didn't think they could either raise the necessary finance or get the infrastructure to Complete these developments they would have abandoned them both long ago.

It is just not in Sunland's interests to continue to spend money on these developments unless they were confident that they would be able to Complete them.


----------



## 234sale

It's not a question of prices falling,, its more a question of developers / banks with many forclosed properties, becoming realistic with selling prices.

Nobody wants to admit their asset value is 40% less than they say it is.


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

I am not really sure about substations etc, but I just want to ask anybody who might know if they might actually use the Dubai Health Care City substation or any other that is near culture village until there is more demand in Culture Village?

All other infrastructure seems to be in place like bridges, metro except for things that can be done quickly like lights asphalt and du/etisalat.


----------



## carpetking

got this mail today:

Dear Mr. XXXXX XXXXXX,

Greeting from DEWA,

Thank you for the email. Please note that housing fee is collected by DEWA on behalf of Dubai Municipality and is applicable for all expatriates residents’ accounts in Dubai. We therefore are acting only as collector of the housing fee as per directive of the Government of Dubai. Housing Fee is charged to an account on the basis of calculating 5% of the annual rent amount (for residents who are tenants) or 0.5% of the property purchase price (for expatriate owners residing in their properties). The value is then divided by the 12 months to charge a customer on a monthly basis. For further any clarification kindly contact DM toll free number 800900.
Should you require any other information, please feel free to contact us and we will be more than happy to assist you further.

Sincerely,

Syed Fayaz Hussain Quadri
Sr. Officer-Ccc
Customer Services - Customer Relations
P.O.Box: 564 Dubai - UAE
Phone: 04-6019999 • Fax: 04-3249345
[email protected] • www.dewa.gov.ae<http://www.dewa.gov.ae/>
[cid:[email protected]]


----------



## AppleMac

carpetking said:


> got this mail today:


and? :?


----------



## Imre

AppleMac said:


> and? :?


You must pay


----------



## farodkhaledmossad

skinnygirl said:


> I have read quite a few of the negative comments regarding the finance and infrastucture issues surrounding the PV and am a little confused.
> 
> As far as I am aware, Sunland are continuing to build the PV (and the D1 for that matter).
> Sunland still own quite of lot of both developments either because they held back some apartments/condos from their initial sales push or because they have repossessed them from defaulting owners.
> There is no Off Plan market so these developments won't be worth anything (to either Sunland or other investors) until they are Complete.
> Investors will not pay the last installment of their payment plan until the developments are Complete. And Complete means that there is adequate infrastructure in place.
> 
> My conclusion therefore is that Sunland and the investors in the PV and D1 are all in the same boat and that if Sunland didn't think they could either raise the necessary finance or get the infrastructure to Complete these developments they would have abandoned them both long ago.
> 
> It is just not in Sunland's interests to continue to spend money on these developments unless they were confident that they would be able to Complete them.


Do you work for them or what, since " your " conclusions are exactly the same of their? So funny to subscribe to SSC just to post that here, it´s your right of course, but funny as well.


----------



## farodkhaledmossad

axe2grind said:


> Face 81 couldn't have said it better. It is a lovely facade!!!!
> 
> I am sorry too Dubaiiscool, but clearly you haven't invested in this project and been given the run around by Sunland regarding completion dates for the past 3 years.
> 
> The point is this. When you post something from another source you are not sure if it is correct and by simply repeating it you lend credence to it. In fact it comes across to me as an investor as defending the indefenceable. This project is 2 years behind schedule and can only be occupied if temporary infrastructure facilities are provided. The cost of this is prohibitive and in any case Sunland have never indicated that this is an option they are considering. The reality is they stay very quiet when it comes to anything to do with the completion date.
> 
> Investors in this project should now be getting a return on their investment but Sunland don't want to even discuss that, instead they rely heavily on the RERA report from Scream!line which is misleading as it says 87% complete whereas in fact it should say 62% complete and 25% in procurement.
> 
> If I am wrong then someone from Sunland can refute it by posting the full Scream!line assessment not just the first page.
> 
> There is going to be a time, very soon, when Sunland will have to come clean about how they are managing this project. What they don't realise or even care about is that anyone with their hard earned cash in this project is a stakeholder and has a right to know what is going on.


You said all. My compliments.


----------



## axe2grind

Clearly skinnygirl is a mole planted by Sunland to put a positive spin on the current status of this project and anything she posts should be confined to the wastebin.
On my last visit to site the infrastructure was at a standstill as it has been for the past 2 years. I saw 2 other developers vainly trying to progress their building but the remainder have not done anything or have stopped. I did see what might be a temporary district cooling plant being worked on near the metro line but other than that, nothing.
The extended completion date for Palazzo Versace as mentioned in the contract (should you have been unfortunate to have signed it) is end of this month. Now I know Arabtec can work quickly but somehow I think this date is going to be missed as all other dates have been. Once this happens Sunland are in material breach of contract!!!
If any investors, and I repeat investors, are interested in knowing how to get at Sunland then feel free to send me a PM. They think they are bullet proof but they aren't!


----------



## chefdude

Hearing noises about a new "Property Owners" visa for the UAE no details as yet


----------



## Richard Head

chefdude said:


> Hearing noises about a new "Property Owners" visa for the UAE no details as yet


http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/visa/dubai-studies-new-property-visa-1.817973

Sounds like they are doing their level best to horrifically overcomplicate something that should be very simple. Whcih probably means it will be prohibitively expensive for most people.


----------



## skinnygirl

Boys - there still seems to be some confusion!
My previous comment was based entirely on a logical argument as I believe Sunland have far more to lose by continuing to build (if they believe the project is doomed) than they do by abandoning it. What I am saying therefore, is that Sunland believe they will Complete the project. 
So far, no one has addressed that logic to dispute my argument!
For clarification, I do not represent Sunland or any of its associates in any capacity. On the contrary, I am an investor.
The Anticipated Completion Date, as defined in the revised contract, says it will be between 31 March 2011 and 30 June 2011 but may be extended in accordance with another clause.
This other clause says the Seller (Sunland) may extend the Completion date by up to 12 months or more and if they invoke Force Majeure they can extend it for even longer.
Force Majeure includes (and I quote) "delays in provision of utilitiesto the Plot by local and/or governmental authorities".
So, according to my thinking, the project will be Competed but not for at least another 12 months and then even longer of the utilities are not in place.
However, I repeat that it is in Sunland's interests to Complete as soon as possible because they still own a significant number of unsold apartments/condos which will be a little interest to buyers until the project in Complete or nearly Complete.
To axe2grind and farodhaled - I am sorry if this all sounds too positive for you both but unless you can defeat the logic I'm afraid you're stuck with it!


----------



## DubaiDreamz

*Sunland / PV*



skinnygirl said:


> Boys - there still seems to be some confusion!
> My previous comment was based entirely on a logical argument as I believe Sunland have far more to lose by continuing to build (if they believe the project is doomed) than they do by abandoning it. What I am saying therefore, is that Sunland believe they will Complete the project.
> So far, no one has addressed that logic to dispute my argument!
> For clarification, I do not represent Sunland or any of its associates in any capacity. On the contrary, I am an investor.
> The Anticipated Completion Date, as defined in the revised contract, says it will be between 31 March 2011 and 30 June 2011 but may be extended in accordance with another clause.
> This other clause says the Seller (Sunland) may extend the Completion date by up to 12 months or more and if they invoke Force Majeure they can extend it for even longer.
> Force Majeure includes (and I quote) "delays in provision of utilitiesto the Plot by local and/or governmental authorities".
> So, according to my thinking, the project will be Competed but not for at least another 12 months and then even longer of the utilities are not in place.
> However, I repeat that it is in Sunland's interests to Complete as soon as possible because they still own a significant number of unsold apartments/condos which will be a little interest to buyers until the project in Complete or nearly Complete.
> To axe2grind and farodhaled - I am sorry if this all sounds too positive for you both but unless you can defeat the logic I'm afraid you're stuck with it!


FYI - Already received my delay notification / extension claiming Force Majeure. Extension a minimum of 15 months from 30 June 2011. Considering that these things are only ever delayed further I would anticipate handover of the residences no earlier than end 2012 with the hotel another 6 months after that (Note - that's just my opinion). 

I agree that the project is worthless unless it is completed but to complete they need sufficient funds. Sales are at a relative standstill and many investors have defaulted. I'm not sure if they have secured bank financing yet but the Force Majeure extension at least gives them the contractual means to delay. But they are still moving forwards and there is continual progress so one would assume that they are fairly positive they can resolve the situation and deliver the project - otherwise they might as well just put it on hold. 

Staying positive (becasue you have to at this stage!!), maybe that's a good thing - prices have a chance to pick up again and who knows, maybe us investors (who have financed this project) will get a little return as well???


----------



## DubaiDream

*Letting agent JLT*

1. Can anyone advise of a good letting agent for my 1 bed in JLT Concorde Tower

2. Anyone know roughly the rental value for 1 bed unfurnished 800 sq ft in Concorde ?

Many thanks


----------



## chefdude

Richard Head said:


> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/visa/dubai-studies-new-property-visa-1.817973
> 
> Sounds like they are doing their level best to horrifically overcomplicate something that should be very simple. Whcih probably means it will be prohibitively expensive for most people.


Just read that gulf news article and it simply looks like an attempt to legitimize the workaround some expat residents have had to resort to. This looks even more ludicrous than the 6 month renewable visa although it would offer more of the standard resident rights such as car ownership and current account etc.

Should offer 5 or 10 year visa at a price no more than AED 5,000 that would do the trick :cheers:


----------



## agod

And make it once you have got it, you keep it, no more uncertainty like rescinding it, at a whim.

They have lost the trust of many people, and that will take an easy and cheap Residence/Retirement Visa, that allows you to come and go for 5 years + then all the Baby Boomers will be happy to spend thier money here on new cars, Restaurants, and designer Shops.

Wake up Dubai, and start the process today.

Al.


----------



## AppleMac

Imre said:


> You must pay


some of us have - for years :lol:


----------



## MarkWass

carpetking said:


> or 0.5% of the property purchase price (for expatriate owners residing in their properties).


So does this mean that only expats have to pay and Dubai citizens don’t?


----------



## Imre

MarkWass said:


> So does this mean that only expats have to pay and Dubai citizens don’t?


Yes , this is just for expats


----------



## farodkhaledmossad

axe2grind said:


> Clearly skinnygirl is a mole planted by Sunland to put a positive spin on the current status of this project and anything she posts should be confined to the wastebin.
> On my last visit to site the infrastructure was at a standstill as it has been for the past 2 years. I saw 2 other developers vainly trying to progress their building but the remainder have not done anything or have stopped. I did see what might be a temporary district cooling plant being worked on near the metro line but other than that, nothing.
> The extended completion date for Palazzo Versace as mentioned in the contract (should you have been unfortunate to have signed it) is end of this month. Now I know Arabtec can work quickly but somehow I think this date is going to be missed as all other dates have been. Once this happens Sunland are in material breach of contract!!!
> If any investors, and I repeat investors, are interested in knowing how to get at Sunland then feel free to send me a PM. They think they are bullet proof but they aren't!


Tks and good luck


----------



## 234sale

^^ I'm sure locals in my apartment building are paying the housing fee.. Only if it's their own building is it exempt.


----------



## williamX

*Housing fee*

I have ZERO housing fees in my bills in Emaar Marina Towers (Original 6) :banana:


----------



## MarkWass

williamX said:


> I have ZERO housing fees in my bills in Emaar Marina Towers (Original 6) :banana:


^^ Are you citizen or ex pat?


----------



## propertymagnet

agod said:


> And make it once you have got it, you keep it, no more uncertainty like rescinding it, at a whim.
> 
> They have lost the trust of many people, and that will take an easy and cheap Residence/Retirement Visa, that allows you to come and go for 5 years + then all the Baby Boomers will be happy to spend thier money here on new cars, Restaurants, and designer Shops.
> 
> Wake up Dubai, and start the process today.
> 
> Al.



Great post Al....


----------



## Freestyler

234sale said:


> ^^ I'm sure locals in my apartment building are paying the housing fee.. Only if it's their own building is it exempt.


Yup, thats correct.


----------



## Imre

Payment of Housing Fees along with DEWA bills 

In line with Dubai Municipality's policy to simplify procedures for the public, it has been decided to collect housing fees through Dubai Electricity and Water Authority bills starting from January 2005. *We, therefore, urge all residents of the Emirate of Dubai to provide copies of their tenancy contract as well as the Electricity and Water bill to the DEWA staff at the Customer Servoce Centres (Head Office, Al Wasl Branch & Burj Nahar Branch) in order to register their tenancy contracts.* The fees payment can be made in full or in monthly installments, along with your electricity and water bill. If you have already paid the required fees, you need to produce copies of your tenancy contract along with receipt of payment.

For inquiries or further information, please call 8004567 or visit our website www.dm.gov.ae 
19 Feb 2005 

http://login.dm.gov.ae/wps/portal/s...t+en/home-en/announcements-en/announcement208

This is if you rent , if you own a property and you are a citizen you dont need to pay?


----------



## Imre

Another one:

Housing fee must for all 

June 2010Dubai Municipality categorically made it clear that it will not spare any residential unit, be it in a gated community or a freehold property, from paying housing fee within six months.

Senior officials confirmed to Khaleej Times that the civic body had already prepared a list of major freehold properties in the emirate which would soon be served with a month’s notice to pay up housing fees.

However, Dubai Municipality (DM) has also decided to offer relief to home owners in free zones by allowing them to pay five per cent of the rental value estimated by RERA (Real Estate Regulatory Authority) for their localities instead of the earlier fee of 0.5 per cent per annum of the total property purchase price.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...e/2010/June/theuae_June189.xml&section=theuae


----------



## axe2grind

*the spider and the fly*



skinnygirl said:


> Boys - there still seems to be some confusion!
> My previous comment was based entirely on a logical argument as I believe Sunland have far more to lose by continuing to build (if they believe the project is doomed) than they do by abandoning it. What I am saying therefore, is that Sunland believe they will Complete the project.
> So far, no one has addressed that logic to dispute my argument!
> For clarification, I do not represent Sunland or any of its associates in any capacity. On the contrary, I am an investor.
> The Anticipated Completion Date, as defined in the revised contract, says it will be between 31 March 2011 and 30 June 2011 but may be extended in accordance with another clause.
> This other clause says the Seller (Sunland) may extend the Completion date by up to 12 months or more and if they invoke Force Majeure they can extend it for even longer.
> Force Majeure includes (and I quote) "delays in provision of utilitiesto the Plot by local and/or governmental authorities".
> So, according to my thinking, the project will be Competed but not for at least another 12 months and then even longer of the utilities are not in place.
> However, I repeat that it is in Sunland's interests to Complete as soon as possible because they still own a significant number of unsold apartments/condos which will be a little interest to buyers until the project in Complete or nearly Complete.
> To axe2grind and farodhaled - I am sorry if this all sounds too positive for you both but unless you can defeat the logic I'm afraid you're stuck with it!


Putting aside the condescending tone of this post I just don't buy into skinnygirl being an investor and these are my reasons :

1. She responded too quickly to my post, probably as soon as she got into her Sunland office and checked this website for any responses to her
" positive" post.
2. She appears to be happy that Sunland are delayed and holding on to her money which must be a minimum of AED.5-6million if she is fully paid up.
3. She then goes on to merrily quote us "boys" chapter and verse about Force Majeure and that Sunland are within their rights contractually to do so. You have got to be having a laugh!!!
4. Is it purely coincidental that her first post coincides with the notification that Sunland have given a Force Majeure notice.

Skinnygirl if you are a genuine investor you need to prove it!! Until you do I will consider you an Agent Provocateur.

Oh, the Spider and the Fly thing? Its a poem by Mary Howitt with the opening line of "Will you walk into my parlour?" said the spider to the fly.

I have been trying to tempt a Sunland representative for months to post on this forum and finally when they think it is safe to say something, following the FM notification, they do.

Well, welcome little fly!


----------



## axe2grind

*FORCE MAJEURE*



DubaiDreamz said:


> FYI - Already received my delay notification / extension claiming Force Majeure. Extension a minimum of 15 months from 30 June 2011. Considering that these things are only ever delayed further I would anticipate handover of the residences no earlier than end 2012 with the hotel another 6 months after that (Note - that's just my opinion).
> 
> I agree that the project is worthless unless it is completed but to complete they need sufficient funds. Sales are at a relative standstill and many investors have defaulted. I'm not sure if they have secured bank financing yet but the Force Majeure extension at least gives them the contractual means to delay. But they are still moving forwards and there is continual progress so one would assume that they are fairly positive they can resolve the situation and deliver the project - otherwise they might as well just put it on hold.
> 
> Staying positive (becasue you have to at this stage!!), maybe that's a good thing - prices have a chance to pick up again and who knows, maybe us investors (who have financed this project) will get a little return as well???


I hate to say it but I did warn investors in this project that Sunland would eventually play the Force Majeure card. See my post 160 on 15th March 2011.

However, Sunland have played right into investors hands by issuing a Force Majeure notice. I will not go into detail on this open forum due to the likes of skinnygirl but I urge all investors in this project, and investors in other projects, to seek legal advice as Sunland have now shot themselves in the foot. 

If you PM me I will explain how to go about this but I will ask for certain information from you to prove you are who you say you are.

Failure to act will ultimately lead to your money being tied up for years without any return or loosing it completely.


----------



## xingu

Imre said:


> Another one:
> 
> Housing fee must for all
> 
> June 2010Dubai Municipality categorically made it clear that it will not spare any residential unit, be it in a gated community or a freehold property, from paying housing fee within six months.
> 
> Senior officials confirmed to Khaleej Times that the civic body had already prepared a list of major freehold properties in the emirate which would soon be served with a month’s notice to pay up housing fees.
> 
> However, Dubai Municipality (DM) has also decided to offer relief to home owners in free zones by allowing them to pay five per cent of the rental value estimated by RERA (Real Estate Regulatory Authority) for their localities instead of the earlier fee of 0.5 per cent per annum of the total property purchase price.
> 
> http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...e/2010/June/theuae_June189.xml&section=theuae


That's more crap.

I have 2 different sets of friends, (both expats) living in the Fairways, one pays the housing fee, one doesn't.

It's pure luck and/or possibly who your landlord is


----------



## Josau

williamX said:


> I have ZERO housing fees in my bills in Emaar Marina Towers (Original 6) :banana:


^^How long ago have you connected your DEWA in your name? It might be that you are an "old" DEWA customer. These seem to "escape" the housing fee for longer. If you get a new DEWA connection now, there is no way you escape the housing fee. In my building (MVT) I have a neighbour across the corridor, who has never been asked to pay the housing fee either. He got his connection at a time, when the generalization of the housing fee just started (2008) and when you had a chance of 50/50 to be paying or not. I got my DEWA at the same time as he did and I have been paying it ever since.


----------



## Imre

xingu said:


> That's more crap.
> 
> I have 2 different sets of friends, (both expats) living in the Fairways, one pays the housing fee, one doesn't.
> 
> It's pure luck and/or possibly who your landlord is


I have the same story in Marina and JLT as well.

Looks mess around this..


----------



## wittyman

Hi forumers,

I have a 1BR apartment at Time Place Tower, type 2B at mid first 10 floors with full Marina vew. I recently got a proposal to sell it for AED 600,000 net. 

I will appreciate any comments on you forumers, especially those who live there and are in the know.

1. Is this price reasonable given current conditions?

2. Is it right time to sell? Has the market bottomed out with prices improving, or it will take a couple or several years more for that to happen?

3. I have not got title deed yet and am in arrears in management fee. Given that what wil be the sale procedures and how long it may take to complete the sale?

Many thanks in advance for your help..


----------



## Towers3

Josau said:


> ^^How long ago have you connected your DEWA in your name? It might be that you are an "old" DEWA customer. These seem to "escape" the housing fee for longer. If you get a new DEWA connection now, there is no way you escape the housing fee. In my building (MVT) I have a neighbour across the corridor, who has never been asked to pay the housing fee either. He got his connection at a time, when the generalization of the housing fee just started (2008) and when you had a chance of 50/50 to be paying or not. I got my DEWA at the same time as he did and I have been paying it ever since.


Just contact


----------



## williamX

*ExPat*



MarkWass said:


> ^^ Are you citizen or ex pat?


I'm Russian investor without UAE resident visa


----------



## williamX

*transfer*



wittyman said:


> Hi forumers,
> 
> I have a 1BR apartment at Time Place Tower, type 2B at mid first 10 floors with full Marina vew. I recently got a proposal to sell it for AED 600,000 net.
> 
> I will appreciate any comments on you forumers, especially those who live there and are in the know.
> 
> 1. Is this price reasonable given current conditions?
> 
> 2. Is it right time to sell? Has the market bottomed out with prices improving, or it will take a couple or several years more for that to happen?
> 
> 3. I have not got title deed yet and am in arrears in management fee. Given that what wil be the sale procedures and how long it may take to complete the sale?
> 
> Many thanks in advance for your help..


1) Price is reasonable. If you check DLD recent transactions - you even can find sale in TimePlace tower at 557K. 

2) It seems that market not bottomed out yet. I would not sell now, better to rent out and to wait 3-5 years. It depends on personal financial situation.

3) Title deed release takes 1 day (i did it in december). Transfer takes 1 day (it can be same day with Title deed release). NOC from developers takes 3 days. Aprox time for whole deal - 5 days +-2 days.

I plan to come to Dubai after 2 weeks. Planning to buy 1BR in Marina, reasonable offers welcome (PM me). Agents excuse.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Quite a few of the smaller 1 beds in Silverene up for sale for around 600k. Prices seem cheap these days.


----------



## williamX

*DEWA*



Josau said:


> ^^How long ago have you connected your DEWA in your name? It might be that you are an "old" DEWA customer. These seem to "escape" the housing fee for longer. If you get a new DEWA connection now, there is no way you escape the housing fee. In my building (MVT) I have a neighbour across the corridor, who has never been asked to pay the housing fee either. He got his connection at a time, when the generalization of the housing fee just started (2008) and when you had a chance of 50/50 to be paying or not. I got my DEWA at the same time as he did and I have been paying it ever since.


One of my properties connected since 2006, another since mid 2010, another end 2010. In all my properties housing fee is 0. Maybe it's like lottery? :lol:


----------



## Imre

dubaiprojects said:


> Investment looks attractive, but I am not sure after first year of rental guarantee, what will happen next? Any advise pls?
> Getting 29,467 AED from investing 293,760 AED is not bad??
> 
> 
> Alexander Terrace.
> ocated in the absolute heart of Liverpool, and just a stones throw from Lime Street Station, it also sits right next to two of the largest campuses belonging to John Moore’s University. I have attached a map for you here for you to see it’s superior location.
> 
> Please find further reading here for the supply/demand of Liverpool student housing.
> 
> http://www.property-magazine.eu/many-students-and-problems-with-housing-in-liverpool-15719.html


I need an advise also

We will have a pre-launch of this project in our office in Dubai on Saturday:

Sandy Lane , London , TW11

http://www.gihlondon.com/sandylane

1 BR prices around 285.000-330.000 GBP , 20 % down payment and 80 % on completion.

Teddington (this project is just next to the Bushy Park ) is a good area in London ? worth to invest or not? 

One of my friend wants to buy an apartment but I have no idea about the market there as I have never been in London, just at the airports 

Rent easy there after the handover? What is the rental yield?

Thanks

:cheers:


----------



## MarkWass

^^ Imre

I like the sound of 20% now and 80% on completion: It is right that speculative developers should take on the speculative element of speculative development. Something which the developers in Dubai, simply do not understand!

Teddington is not exactly 'London' but close enough.. It is a nice area.

Rental income will probably be around £1k per month, so gross yield will be around 4%... Net yield will depend on what maintenance & service charges will be (they should be able to give you an indication of what it will be now)... and also letting agents charges, insurance, finance etc..


----------



## Mistermark

Imre said:


> I need an advise also
> 
> We will have a pre-launch of this project in our office in Dubai on Saturday:
> 
> Sandy Lane , London , TW11
> 
> http://www.gihlondon.com/sandylane
> 
> 1 BR prices around 285.000-330.000 GBP , 20 % down payment and 80 % on completion.
> 
> Teddington (this project is just next to the Bushy Park ) is a good area in London ? worth to invest or not?
> 
> One of my friend wants to buy an apartment but I have no idea about the market there as I have never been in London, just at the airports
> 
> Rent easy there after the handover? What is the rental yield?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> :cheers:


I used to work in Teddington, drove through Bushey Park every day, and know the area well.

Teddington is probably best described as a leafy, middle-class outer London suburb. I'm stereotyping it (a little), but think yummy mummies and men who commute (good service to Waterloo) to do good jobs in IT, banking and the media. Good schools, a fair number of independent shops on the High Street, plus of course the River Thames at the point at which it goes from tidal to non-tidal, Teddington Lock.

Is it a good place to buy property? Well there will always be demand, it's the kind of area where thirtysomething professionals settle when they want to have kids. Whether or not those properties are good value I can't say, you'd have to check out comparables and rental rates (best place for the UK is rightmove.co.uk).

While the 20% down, balance on completion offer may sound good compared with Dubai, it's unusual by UK standards. It's a while since I bought a new build here but from recollection it's either £1000 down and the rest on completion or, at most 5% - and even then, it should go into a solicitor's client account until the unit is built.


----------



## MarkWass

Perhaps this is slightly off topic given that we are ‘supposed’ to be talking about here - ie the dodgy dealers and market in *Dubai* as this threads subject area suggests… but is a refreshing change to comment on a safe and transparent market place. And not to mention all the help you have given us.. so more than happy to help.

As Mr M says: check out comparable evidence on rightmove. I actually did that and others before my last post. Others to check are upmystreet (simply enter the postcode TW11 0DR and you get rentals ordered by distance from that post code), primelocation, zoopla, findaproperty. When buying rental investments in London I check them all, only takes a few mins, compile a simple spreadsheet and calculate the average.

In UK, rentals are fairly easy to predict as is fairly transparent market, and most agents tend to use the asking price not too far above what is a realistic achievable figure.

In addition to that research, you can also google letting agents in Teddington and call them and say look I’m interested in this development, what will it rent for.. 
They will know about this development as every estate agent (and his dog) is marketing it..


----------



## MarkWass

Ps We actually looked at many houses in Teddington a few years ago to buy, when we moved out of London. It would have been a great place to live definitely. As a rental investment area though, less good, but v. safe


----------



## Imre

Thanks for the comments MarkWass and Mistermark!

I checked the google and as I see , the rental yield not as good as in Dubai but it seems safer investment and should be good if you are thinking for long term, also if you can get a mortgage you can save some tax

You were right, developer predicted 4 % rental income (net) and the money should go into a solicitor's client account until the unit is U/c.

:cheers:


----------



## skinnygirl

So Guys...to summarise.

Both the PV and D1 are still moving forward - albeit slowly. 

Obviously, Sunland have problems with the provision of utilities etc and this may be linked to their ability to either raise a loan or spend the funds from a loan they've already raised. However, they clearly believe they will successfully Complete both projects so they must be confident in both raising sufficient funds and sorting out the provision of utilities etc.

In addition to which, and as mentioned previously, they still own a significant number of condos/apartments in both developments, which are worth virtually nothing until Complete, so it is in their interest to Complete as soon as possible. At the risk of being repetitive - they are in the same boat as us investors and that is really important.

A rough guess at Completion would be end of 2012 to mid 2013 and if it's earlier then it's a nice surprise! I would think Sunland would try and Complete both developments on the same date as to Complete one, when the other is still a building site, doesn't make much sense.

So...what to do?

Despite axe2grind's view, there appears to be no chance of successful legal action as Sunland are still acting within the terms of the S&P contract. 
However, if you think 'old axe' can help you, give him a go - but I suggest you don't pay anything up front for his advice.

We could stop paying, but if your contract is the same as mine, the big payment comes at Completion at which time it will (hopefully) be 'happy days' all round. 

If we stop paying any pre Completion installments, Sunland may take legal action - which will need to be defended and inevitably there would be late payment interest charges. So that route seems rather pointless (and costly) 

Why not contact Zeina Khoury at Sunland and ask her what's what? She is the head of Customer Services and has been very helpful in the past. 
Or, you could be like 'old axe' and pretend you're a spider in a palour enticing a fly into your web! But I think contacting Zeina would be more straightforward and less laughable!

Oh and on that note 'axe' - I am not an Agent Provocateur - I wear their stuff but that's as close as it gets!

I look forward to reading some constructive and sensible updates and like the rest of us, seeing continuing progress in the development of both the PV and the D1


----------



## 234sale

Imre said:


> I need an advise also
> 
> We will have a pre-launch of this project in our office in Dubai on Saturday:
> 
> Sandy Lane , London , TW11
> 
> http://www.gihlondon.com/sandylane
> 
> 1 BR prices around 285.000-330.000 GBP , 20 % down payment and 80 % on completion.
> 
> Teddington (this project is just next to the Bushy Park ) is a good area in London ? worth to invest or not?
> 
> One of my friend wants to buy an apartment but I have no idea about the market there as I have never been in London, just at the airports
> 
> Rent easy there after the handover? What is the rental yield?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> :cheers:


Try Housepricecrash.co.uk for uk investment advice.

Interest rates have to go up, UK market is going to dive when they do..


----------



## lovedubai

Just don't forget that housepricecrash is a forum for people who absolutely love being resolutely pessimistic about the property market. They've been negative about the housing market for years and years.


----------



## MarkWass

lovedubai said:


> Just don't forget that housepricecrash is a forum for people who absolutely love being resolutely pessimistic about the property market. They've been negative about the housing market for years and years.


Yes they are a group of (generally) educated people who are quite good at using certain facts (or 'parts' of facts) to their own 'advantage' to fuel their obsession and desire for a crash.


----------



## 234sale

In my view House Prices in the majority of areas are vastly over priced,, 

If you're thinking about buying a property in the UK as an investment, it will be likely worth the same or less in the near future.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

MarkWass said:


> Yes they are a group of (generally) educated people who are quite good at using certain facts (or 'parts' of facts) to their own 'advantage' to fuel their obsession and desire for a crash.


Yes and also first time buyers hoping for a crash so they can get in the housing market.


----------



## mackie1964

wittyman said:


> Hi forumers,
> 
> I have a 1BR apartment at Time Place Tower, type 2B at mid first 10 floors with full Marina vew. I recently got a proposal to sell it for AED 600,000 net.
> 
> I will appreciate any comments on you forumers, especially those who live there and are in the know.
> 
> 1. Is this price reasonable given current conditions?
> 
> 2. Is it right time to sell? Has the market bottomed out with prices improving, or it will take a couple or several years more for that to happen?
> 
> 3. I have not got title deed yet and am in arrears in management fee. Given that what wil be the sale procedures and how long it may take to complete the sale?
> 
> Many thanks in advance for your help..


Do not sell a 2B type at that price, Daylight robbery in my opinion, even in the current market. Try to pay-up your service fees and hold on as long as you can. If you will sell at this price, speak to me first :cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Silverene is the same price, but units are much smaller I think there.


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

I need to file a UK tax return on a mortgaged UK rental flat, I am not a UK citizen, been quoted 700 ( sterling ) thru a UK accountant for the job, does anyone have any experience or advise on this issue ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ I used to pay accountant about £300


----------



## bister

Well, Dubai Star is still on the ACI Real Estate website...it will be more than difficult to explain that its just "ACI" now...and that "ACI" has nothing to with ACI Real Estate. These guys are just stalling hoping that we will go away. If they are so "smart" why then bother to appeal to the bitter end? If they found a loophole then why pay lawyers to defend and defend?


----------



## bister

Cayman - so you are expecting us to give up? Please send me the account details of all ACI escrows, since you must KNOW that all the money us gone? Also, if the money is gone why are they building Dubai Star? If RERA has given green light to Dubai Star this is my collatoral....


----------



## rags

http://www.samachar.com/Dubai-cancelled-over-200-property-projects-Prospectus-lgmqJWfdhie.html


----------



## mowy2611

guys, is there any activity on the building? is work commencing?

If we want to go down the "legal" road we need to get together and have one case since we're all in the exact same situation. it'll make lawyer and court costs much easier to bare. 

However, if the building is in progress and RERA is informed of the that then legal approach will be a waste of $$$ and time as the courts will take the developers side

what are your thoughts?


----------



## [email protected]

One real estate company is offering me Ready Studio apartment in DISCOVERY GARDEN, at price of AED 880/- per sq feet for Studio and price of AED 720/- per sq feet for 1 bed room apartment. I am not in UAE. I am sure these rates are very high. Can somebody advise me the prevalent rates in the market in Discovery Garden(Near Ibn Batuta Mall) or Sports city. I appreciate correct information..


----------



## 234sale

You can get better.... ^^ 

Way better..

I'd rather do something in BB at 700AED sqft


----------



## williamX

*Discovery Gardens*

Current prices in Discovery Gardens is from 300 to 500 AED per sq. ft. It Depends on clusters, Zen cluster most expensive - prices there 400-500 per sq. ft. In other cluster - 300-400 AED per sq. ft. 
Check Dubizzle. 
For rates which you got you can find in Business Bay or even in Marina simple projects.


----------



## Imre

[email protected] said:


> One real estate company is offering me Ready Studio apartment in DISCOVERY GARDEN, at price of AED 880/- per sq feet for Studio and price of AED 720/- per sq feet for 1 bed room apartment. I am not in UAE. I am sure these rates are very high. Can somebody advise me the prevalent rates in the market in Discovery Garden(Near Ibn Batuta Mall) or Sports city. I appreciate correct information..


Thats a joke

300 -550 dhs/sqft is the market price there or even less!

Studios you can get from 250-260.000 Dhs , 1 BR from 340-360.000 Dhs, studios have higher sqft price as the 1 Br's.

Sports City is more difficult , I havent heard any sales transactions there in this year , only for rents..


----------



## Ahmed N

mowy2611 said:


> guys, is there any activity on the building? is work commencing?
> 
> If we want to go down the "legal" road we need to get together and have one case since we're all in the exact same situation. it'll make lawyer and court costs much easier to bare.
> 
> However, if the building is in progress and RERA is informed of the that then legal approach will be a waste of $$$ and time as the courts will take the developers side
> 
> what are your thoughts?



If the work is in progress - then we have to wait it out and see. No court will listen to us, as they will argue that the work is in progress - so whats the problem!!! Even RERA are re-directing any concerns back to ACI.

I am very concerned that the forum is so quite - and I appreciate people are busy with normal day to day life, but we must keep the pressure on. 

I live in the UK, and have only to forum to look towards to get regular updates. We like others are paying interest on loans to finance this investmenst - and each day goes pass with a hope that one day, just one day they will finish the tower and we will have our front door keys.

If we can all work together, see the progress day to day and see what action we need to take - legally.


Has anyone spoken to ACI, developers etc - why is there no progress - only 8workers? hno:


----------



## MarkWass

Looks like PR dept of RERA up to their old tricks again. Or are they for *real* this time…??

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-scrapped-217-real-estate-projects-in-two-years--404713.html?tab=Article
Dubai scrapped 217 real estate projects in two years

*By* Staff writer
· Sunday, 12 June 2011 9:38 AM

Dubai, the Gulf business hub where property prices continue to decline, cancelled 217 property projects as of May 31 after completing a review of the industry in the past two years.
The Real Estate Regulatory Authority reviewed more than 450 projects and expects 237 of them to be completed “in due course,” according to information contained in the Dubai government’s bond prospectus.
The total value of property sale transactions plunged to AED119.5bn at the end of last year from AED152.9bn a year earlier, it said.
Dubai, whose Emirates airline tapped debt markets this month, has set up a $5bn Euro Medium Term Note Program.

The bond prospectus, posted on the London Stock Exchange website, said Dubai government had direct outstanding debt of AED115.4bn ($31.4bn) as of May 20, including AED22bn at main holding company Investment Corporation of Dubai.
The emirate’s economy expanded 2.4 percent in 2010 after contracting 2.4 percent in the year-earlier statement, the prospectus said. Real gross domestic product was AED293.6bn in 2010.
Residential property prices in Dubai, the worst-performing market in the Middle East for the past three years, haven’t yet benefited from political turmoil in other parts of the region, Deutsche Bank AG said last week.
Home values declined 1.2 percent in May from the previous month and rents fell by 1 percent, according to the bank. Apartment prices dropped 1.3 percent and villas lost 1 percent.
“Despite talks of renewed interest in real estate following regional unrest, there is no visible sign of an improvement,” the analysts wrote. “Even if we believe the worst of the downtrend is now behind, new supply, lack of homebuyers’ appetite and anemic transaction activity point to further weakness.”


----------



## MarkWass

Even the Torygraph running with the story..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/8571414/Dubais-financial-crisis-laid-bare-as-217-new-properties-axed.html


----------



## Towers3

MarkWass said:


> Looks like PR dept of RERA up to their old tricks again. Or are they for *real* this time…??
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-scrapped-217-real-estate-projects-in-two-years--404713.html?tab=Article
> Dubai scrapped 217 real estate projects in two years
> 
> *By* Staff writer
> · Sunday, 12 June 2011 9:38 AM
> 
> Dubai, the Gulf business hub where property prices continue to decline, cancelled 217 property projects as of May 31 after completing a review of the industry in the past two years.
> The Real Estate Regulatory Authority reviewed more than 450 projects and expects 237 of them to be completed “in due course,” according to information contained in the Dubai government’s bond prospectus.
> The total value of property sale transactions plunged to AED119.5bn at the end of last year from AED152.9bn a year earlier, it said.
> Dubai, whose Emirates airline tapped debt markets this month, has set up a $5bn Euro Medium Term Note Program.
> 
> The bond prospectus, posted on the London Stock Exchange website, said Dubai government had direct outstanding debt of AED115.4bn ($31.4bn) as of May 20, including AED22bn at main holding company Investment Corporation of Dubai.
> The emirate’s economy expanded 2.4 percent in 2010 after contracting 2.4 percent in the year-earlier statement, the prospectus said. Real gross domestic product was AED293.6bn in 2010.
> Residential property prices in Dubai, the worst-performing market in the Middle East for the past three years, haven’t yet benefited from political turmoil in other parts of the region, Deutsche Bank AG said last week.
> Home values declined 1.2 percent in May from the previous month and rents fell by 1 percent, according to the bank. Apartment prices dropped 1.3 percent and villas lost 1 percent.
> “Despite talks of renewed interest in real estate following regional unrest, there is no visible sign of an improvement,” the analysts wrote. “Even if we believe the worst of the downtrend is now behind, new supply, lack of homebuyers’ appetite and anemic transaction activity point to further weakness.”


Thanks Mark but check the comments below the article, there are cancelled projects that were bonkers even in 2006 but agreed, wish RERA would release the list soon. 

Sunday, 12 June 2011 6:08 PM[UAE] - uae
These are all numbers, no one knows whats cancelled and RERA cheif clearly said he wont release the names! So weird considering names of restaurants are released over violations, however cancelled project names are kept behind lock and key.

http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...insights/property/dubais-dramatic-dreamscapes


----------



## MarkWass

Haven’t had a chance to look at the bond prospectus in detail yet, like I did the previously (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=65456003&postcount=24917), and to be honest not sure if I can be bothered to as makes no difference anyway… but perhaps just like then, today’s latest media stories were *also* based on an inaccurate interpretation by journalists of a slightly misleading worded single sentence contained in the prospectus?


----------



## ashram8

i dont mean to be negative, but legal action is a loooong way and most likely will not be in our favor. I don't think that RERA will welcome refunds even if possible. Because that means that this tower will remain unfinished and therefore ruining the entire project. Niki Laude towers have not even started, thats why it was easier to get a court order for a refund. However still, it will be almost impossible to get money back simply because they are bankrupt. i will try to visit ACI on Tuesday and have a meeting with Sharawi and I will post here the outcome. I just find it strange that a tower that has reached 27 floors, will be left untouched forever. I don't think that RERA will welcome refunds even if possible.


----------



## cayman1

ashram8 said:


> i dont mean to be negative, but legal action is a loooong way and most likely will not be in our favor. I don't think that RERA will welcome refunds even if possible. Because that means that this tower will remain unfinished and therefore ruining the entire project. Niki Laude towers have not even started, thats why it was easier to get a court order for a refund. However still, it will be almost impossible to get money back simply because they are bankrupt. i will try to visit ACI on Tuesday and have a meeting with Sharawi and I will post here the outcome. I just find it strange that a tower that has reached 27 floors, will be left untouched forever. I don't think that RERA will welcome refunds even if possible.


Can you ask about other project like Sami Tower ?


----------



## DXBQuantum

Business Bay I think is going for anywhere between 550-600 AED per sqft. 

Poll: Would you rather have Business Bay or Discovery Gardens?


----------



## diku

Sure BB

But development will take atleast 5 years.



DXBQuantum said:


> Business Bay I think is going for anywhere between 550-600 AED per sqft.
> 
> Poll: Would you rather have Business Bay or Discovery Gardens?


----------



## khani3

Hi can everyone who has a purchased a property from Damac Property which has been delayed and not completed on time please contact me on with name of site and preferred email contact:

[email protected]


----------



## ladcor1

khani3 said:


> Hi can everyone who has a purchased a property from Damac Property which has been delayed and not completed on time please contact me on with name of site and preferred email contact:
> 
> [email protected][/QUOT
> 
> I believe this is specific to UK investors.


----------



## khani3

ladcor1 said:


> khani3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi can everyone who has a purchased a property from Damac Property which has been delayed and not completed on time please contact me on with name of site and preferred email contact:
> 
> [email protected][/QUOT
> 
> I believe this is specific to UK investors.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes UK, but if you are outside uk, still send me your detail and we will keep you informed which may help. Send property details also please
> 
> Imran
Click to expand...


----------



## Face81

*Work resumes on Dubai Jumeirah Golf Estates property development*

Rebecca Bundhun 

Jun 14, 2011 

Work has restarted on the unfinished Jumeirah Golf Estates property development, home to the final leg of the Race to Dubai golf tournament.

The residential luxury project, said to be nine times the size of Hyde Park in London, was designed to have golf courses named after the four elements - earth, water, wind and fire - but only two have opened.

Some owners have protested they have been unable to move into their multimillion-dirham villas because the infrastructure, including water and electricity, is not ready. Other villas have yet to be completed.

"The Government of Dubai has committed to providing significant financial support to Jumeirah Golf Estates," Nakheel, the developer, said yesterday. "In turn, we are committed to managing and delivering this key project for Dubai. Our contractors have recommenced work at the development. We are liaising with all Jumeirah Golf Estates customers in relation to the project's progress."

Nakheel said it had been appointed by the Dubai Government "to manage and deliver the Jumeirah Golf Estates project, with over 306 homes scheduled for completion in 2012".

It was announced last year that Nakheel would receive US$8 billion (Dh29.38bn) to finish near-term projects under a restructuring proposal presented in March by Dubai World, its parent company.

"It's certainly positive news that there's a strong commitment to get it going," said Matthew Green, the head of research and consultancy at CB Richard Ellis in Dubai.

"It was always going to be a development which would be in the spotlight," added Mr Green. "I think it's important certainly from the government standpoint that they should get this moving again and for the next tournament hopefully we're going to start to see some more completed properties there."

The Earth golf course, designed by former champion golfer Greg Norman, opened late 2009 at the Jumeirah Golf Estates, while the Fire course, also designed by the Australian, opened at the beginning of last year.

Golf courses are widely considered to be amenities that increase the prices of surrounding property.

A number of golf projects were launched by developers in Dubai before the downturn in the property market, including the Tiger Woods Dubai, which was planned to be surrounded by 22 palaces and 75 mansions. To date just a few of the holes have been shaped and grassed, and the future of the development remains uncertain. The planned 510-hectare Golf City development slated to be part of Dubailand was to have five courses and hundreds of villas.

Nakheel's projects include Jumeirah Village, Jumeirah Park, Jumeirah Heights Clusters, The World archipelago, Palm Jebel Ali and Palm Deira.

Mr Green said there was a strong likelihood there would be more such announcements of resumption of work on some of Nakheel's unfinished projects in the coming months.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/...ai-jumeirah-golf-estates-property-development


----------



## rallyman

there must be money somewhere, they took deposits of around 2 billion euros !!!!!!! ... why should we give up and let these crooks keep our money !!!


----------



## cayman1

rallyman said:


> there must be money somewhere, they took deposits of around 2 billion euros !!!!!!! ... why should we give up and let these crooks keep our money !!!


Do you have evidence ? You can contact somebody to recoup your $ .


----------



## ummbutti

Upadate on LAWNS II from RERA :
"The project is under review and has received cancellation notice for not progressing. So after that there will be several communication before we announce the official cancelation"


----------



## noir-dresses

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2011/06/14/intv.china.skyscrappers.cnn

A little off topic but still interesting.

Looks like Dubai isn't the only place where there are a lot of empty skyscrapers, China has even more.


----------



## rallyman

i have actually won the court case against them... ! they are in total default. the problem is finding the cash stash ... it seems to have been spirited out of the middle east into some other tax haven ...


----------



## Wac

In case the project is cancelled, what are our options? Will they return our money (100%) or will they drag us further? Any information?


----------



## bister

well you cant siphon money from an escrow to a tax haven...if that is the case RERA will have some explaining to do....especially when they just endorsed construction of Dubai Star from the very same developer: ACI


----------



## Chipmunk

I'm going to be renting out a flat without the use of an agent. I have already found a tenant and we have an agreement on the price and the terms and conditions.

What do I do now? I guess I need to make a contract but how and where do I do this?

I already have an Ejari account but I don't yet have the title deed for this particular property so I've been told I can only do it the traditional way but need some help on how to go about this.


----------



## Face81

Pretty good to see the cash flowing in to some of the stalled projects again.......



> *Dubai World’s Limitless to Restart Towers as Demand Picks Up
> *
> 
> By Zainab Fattah - Jun 15, 2011 9:00 PM GMT+0100
> BLOOMBERG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _An illustration shows office buildings at The Galleries development by Limitless LLC, in Dubai.
> Photographer: Karl Jeffs/Limitless LCC via Bloomberg
> _
> 
> Limitless LLC, a property developer owned by Dubai World, plans to restart work on four office and residential buildings in the Galleries development next year after its parent company restructured $25 billion in debt.
> 
> The work will complete the eight-building development, adding more than 600 apartments and 1 million square feet (93,000 square meters), of office space, said Bahaa Abouhatab, head of projects for Limitless. The buildings are 75 percent to 80 percent finished, he said.
> 
> “Hopefully, we can start on the residential side in early 2012 because there is good demand for it,” Abouhatab said in an interview at a conference in Dubai. “They need about nine months of work. We’re hoping to start offering them in late 2012 or 2013.”
> 
> Developers in Dubai, the Middle East’s worst-performing property market in the last three years, are restarting stalled projects that are nearest to completion in the most attractive locations. State-controlled holding company Dubai World, which also owns developer Nakheel PJSC, is entering “a new phase of growth,” Chairman Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al Maktoum said after the company reached a final agreement with creditors in March.
> 
> The Galleries, on the main road between Dubai and Abu Dhabi, has attracted overseas tenants including Siemens AG (SIE), Ericsson AB, China National Petroleum Corp. and Kraft Foods Inc. which use the area to move products across the Middle East, Abouhatab said. The development’s proximity to the Jebel Ali Free Zone and port makes it convenient for customers with warehouses in the port, he said.
> 
> *One Owner *
> Other advantages include a metro station and the fact that the development has one owner, he said.
> 
> The 800,000 square feet of commercial space in the Galleries’ four completed buildings is about 50 percent occupied and Limitless expects to increase that to 70 percent this year, Abouhatab said. Work stalled on the development’s four other buildings in 2009 after the financial crisis caused the sheikhdom’s property market to collapse.
> 
> “We have around 200,000 square feet for lease in the pipeline that we’re hoping to close before the end of the year,” Abouhatab said. “Lately, we’ve been getting serous inquiries and that’s an indication that the market is moving in the right direction.”


Source


----------



## Ahmed N

Copy and paste this link below as see the list of projects on hold from RERA.

Dubai Star is listed!!!

http://www.constructionweekonline.c...-z-of-construction-projects-on-hold-in-dubai/


----------



## desertweasel

A couple of press releases hinting at the possibility that JGE and Limitless are going to restart construction says almost nothing about the market I'm afraid. As Nakheel/DW entities this is purely a government initiative and as such there are no commercial drivers or clues to the state of the market to be gained here.

If the toady press here actually did some investigative journalism rather than printing fawning press releases we might be able to get some idea as to what is actually happening rather than purely rumour and innuendo, yes some projects have restarted and this is good but many are utterly abandoned and these must be acknowledged.


----------



## wittyman

mackie1964 said:


> Do not sell a 2B type at that price, Daylight robbery in my opinion, even in the current market. Try to pay-up your service fees and hold on as long as you can. If you will sell at this price, speak to me first :cheers:


Thank you Mackie for your advice. I appreciate it. What do you think the fair price should be in the current market?


----------



## Face81

For those who are interested in THE list of projects currently on hold:

Abjar Tower
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Khuyool Investment L.L.C
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Admiral Bay
MADINAT DUBAI AL MELAHEYAH
Damac Development L L C
DUBAI MARITIME CITY

Alduaa Marina Tower
MARSA DUBAI
Al Duaa Holdings Fzc
EMAAR PROPERTIES PJSC

Alsaqran Tower
AL THANYAH FIFTH
Al Saqran Tower Investments
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Amwaj Tower
MADINAT DUBAI AL MELAHEYAH
Mena Capital Investment Llc
DUBAI MARITIME CITY

Angelica Residence (2)
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Syndicate Developer Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Angelica Residence 1
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Syndicate Developer Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Apex Suites
AL BARSHA SOUTH FIFTH
Dubai Guernsey Property Investment Limited 
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Arabian Crowne
NAD AL SHIBA
M E Development Llc
DUBAI LAND ( L.L.C )

Arabian Gate
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Time Properties 
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Atrium Gold Towers
NAD AL SHIBA
Earth Developers (L.L.C)
DUBAI SILICON OASIS AUTHORITY

Azizi Fountanne Tower
PALM JABAL ALI
Merwess Abdulaziz
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Banafsheh
AL JADAF
Mrg Ltd
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Baynonah Tower
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Reef Real Estate Investment Co (L.Lc)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Bellagio
AL BARSHAA SOUTH THIRD
Al Madar Investment (L.L.C)
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Bellatora Residences
MADINAT DUBAI AL MELAHEYAH
Al Faraa Properties
DUBAI MARITIME CITY

Blue Bay
BURJ KHALIFA
Rani International Development (L.L.C)
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Boris Becker Business Tower
BURJ KHALIFA
Alternative Capital Invest (Gmbh)
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Burj Al Noor
BURJ KHALIFA
Green Emirates Properties- Co.Psc
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Burj Alalam
BURJ KHALIFA
Burj Alalam Holdings Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Cadi1
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH 
New World Investments Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( LLC )

Cadi2
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
New World Investments Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( LLC )

Cambridge
NAD AL SHIBA
Gpd Investments Spv Four Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Cambridge Business Centre
NAD AL SHIBA
Memon Developments (Fzc)
DUBAI SILICON OASIS AUTHORITY

Canada Business Centre
BURJ KHALIFA
Aakar Developers Ltd
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Casa Verona
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Cenita Global Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Celestial Heights Capella
JABAL ALI
Jad23 Investment Limited
LIMITLESS ( L L C )

Celestial Heights Orion
JABAL ALI
Jad24 Investment Limited
LIMITLESS ( L L C )

Celestial Heights Polaris
JABAL ALI
Jad25 Investment Limited
LIMITLESS ( L L C )

Celestica
AL BARSHA SOUTH FIFTH
Syndicate Developer Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Center Court
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Eta Star Property Developers (L.L.C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Champions Tower 4
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Takmeel Investment Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Chapal Emirates Point
AL BARSHA SOUTH FIFTH
Chapal World Llc
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Chess Tower
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Chess Tower Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Classic Soccer Tower
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
New World Investments Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Coopet
AL BARSHAA SOUTH THIRD
Al Madar Investment (L.L.C)
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Corporate Bay
BURJ KHALIFA
Dheeraj & East Coast (L.L.C)
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Corporate Tower
AL THANYAH FIFTH
Sheffield Real Estate Llc
DMCC BUSINESS PARK DMCC

Crowen Residence
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Crown Holding Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Crown Avenue
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Planetex Holdings Co. Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Desert Rose
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Desert Home Fzco
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Desert Rose
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Desert Home Fzco
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Diamond Arch1
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Diamond Arch Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Diamond Arch2
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Diamond Arch Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Diamond Business Center
AL BARSHAA SOUTH THIRD
Diamond Developers Co.Limited
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Dolce Vita
MARSA DUBAI
Bella Vida Limited
EMAAR PROPERTIES PJSC

Dubai Life Style City
AL RUWAYYAH
Dubai Life Style City L.L.C
DUBAI LAND ( L.L.C )

Dubai Spanish Twin Villa
SAHI SHUAIB 2
California Spanish Villas Limited
DUBAI INDUSTRIAL CITY

Dubai Star
AL THANYAH FIFTH
Alternative Capital Invest (Gmbh)
DUBAI MULTI COMMODITIES CENTER

Dunes Tower
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Reef Real Estate Investment Co (L.Lc)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Eagle Heights
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Smart Investment Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Eaton
NAD AL SHIBA
Gpd Investments L.L.C
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Eclipse Tower
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Aaa Facilities Management Services
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Eden 1
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Al Zahra Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Eden 2
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Al Zahra Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Eden Garden
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Lokhandwala Builders International Ltd
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C)

Edmonton Elm
AL BARSHA SOUTH FIFTH
Edmonton Admire Properties Limited 
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Elite 7 Sports Residence
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Triplanet International Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Erantis
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Crown One Holding Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Escan Marina Tower
MARSA DUBAI
Escan Real Estate Pjsc
EMAAR PROPERTIES PJSC

Executive Suites
BURJ KHALIFA
Damac Development L L C
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

F-towers 1+2
JABAL ALI
Fakhruddin Properties Limited
LIMITLESS ( L L C )

Fair View Residency
BURJ KHALIFA
Deyaar Development Pjsc
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Faras 2
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Khuyool Investment L.L.C
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Fortune Avenue
BURJ KHALIFA
Fortune Avenue Investment Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Fortune Bay
BURJ KHALIFA
Fortune Bay Investment Holdings Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Fortune Serene
NAD AL SHIBA
Fortune Serene Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Frankfurt Tower
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Memon Developments (Fzc)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Garden Heights
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Dheeraj & East Coast (L.L.C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Gardenia1 & 2 
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Memon Developments (Fzc)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Gateway Tower 1
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Dubai Sports City ( L.L.C ) 
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

German Sport Tower1
AL HEBIAH FOURTH 
Paxion International Fze
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Global Bay View
BURJ KHALIFA
Sun Valley Holdings Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Global Bay View Ii & Iii
BURJ KHALIFA
R.K.M Real Estate (Llc)
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Global Golf Res 2
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Bay View Investments Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Global Golf Residence
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Cliff Dwellings Enterprises Ltd
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Global Green View Ii
AL WARSAN FIRST 
Riviera Holdings Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Global Green View Iii
AL WARSAN FIRST
Seracom Holding Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Global Point
NAD AL SHIBA
Ahmed Abdul Rahim Alattar Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Global Royal Tower
AL BARSHA SOUTH FIFTH
Paramount Real Estate Llc
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Hanover Square
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Acw Holding Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Harbour Residences
MARSA DUBAI
Dheeraj & East Coast (L.L.C)
EMAAR PROPERTIES PJSC

Hiliana
AL SAFOUH FIRST
Abyaar Real Estate Development
DUBAI TECHNOLOGY AND MEDIA FREE ZONE AUTHORITY

I & M Tower
NAD AL SHIBA
Ilyas & Mustafa Galadari For Investment & Development Managment (L.L.C)
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Indigo Optima 2
AL WARSAN FIRST
Mars Properties Investment Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Indigo Ville 4
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Venus Properties Investment Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Iris Crystal
BURJ KHALIFA
Sheth Estate (International) Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Iris Amber
AL JADAF
Sheth Estate (International) Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Iris Asmar
AL JADAF
Sheth Estate (International) Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Iris Bay
BURJ KHALIFA
Sheth Estate (International) Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Iris Mist
MADINAT DUBAI AL MELAHEYAH
Sheth Estate (International) Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Iris Ora
BURJ KHALIFA
Sheth Estate (International) Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Ivory Tower
NAD AL SHIBA
Sokook Investment Group
DUBAI TECHNOLOGY AND MEDIA FREE ZONE AUTHORITY

Jasmine Garden
WORLD ISLANDS
Jasmine Garden Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Jouri-1
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
New World Investments Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Jouri-2
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
New World Investments Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Jouri-3
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
New World Investments Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Jouri-4
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
New World Investments Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Jouri-5 
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Four Season Gardens Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Jouri-6
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
New World Investments Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Judi Palace (A+b)
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH 
New World Investments Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Kensington
NAD AL SHIBA
Gpd Investments Spv Six Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

La Vista 04
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Manal Development Fzco
DUBAI SILICON OASIS AUTHORITY

La Vista 05
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Manal Development Fzco
DUBAI SILICON OASIS AUTHORITY

Lamer
AL JADAF
Trinity Developers
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Lawnsii
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Dheeraj & East Coast (L.L.C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Lawnsiii
AL BARSHA SOUTH FIFTH
Dheeraj & East Coast (L.L.C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Lawnsiv
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Dheeraj & East Coast (L.L.C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Lawnsv
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Dheeraj & East Coast (L.L.C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Le Presidium
NAD AL SHIBA
Credo Investments Fze
DUBAI SILICON OASIS AUTHORITY

Libertas
JABAL ALI
Lyra International Limited
LIMITLESS ( L L C )

Lilac Park
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Ab Properties Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Lolena
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Al Masarat Real Estate Development (Llc)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

M S Greens
NAD AL SHIBA
A.S.A 1 Developers Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Maimoon Twin Towers
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Fakhruddin Properties Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Marina 101
MARSA DUBAI
Sheffield Real Estate Llc
EMAAR PROPERTIES PJSC

Mayfair
NAD AL SHIBA
Gpd Investments Spv Eight Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Media Gate 1
NAD AL SHIBA
Time Properties
DUBAI TECHNOLOGY AND MEDIA FREE ZONE AUTHORITY

Media Gate 2
NAD AL SHIBA
Time Properties
DUBAI TECHNOLOGY AND MEDIA FREE ZONE AUTHORITY

Mesa Vista
NAD AL SHIBA
Avon Developers&investments Limited
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Metro Tower
NAD AL SHIBA
Ilyas & Mustafa Galadari For Investment & Development Managment (L.L.C)
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

M Schumacher Business Avenue
BURJ KHALIFA
Alternative Capital Invest (Gmbh)
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Munich Millenium Office Tower1
NAD AL SHIBA
Pyamod Developments Fze
DUBAI SILICON OASIS AUTHORITY

New Dubai Gate2 
AL THANYAH FIFTH
Bonyan International Investment Group (Holding) (L.L.C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Niki Lauda Tower
BURJ KHALIFA
Define Properties L Lc-fzc
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Noora Residence 1
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
International Merchant House Real Estate Development (L.L.C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Nur
AL JADAF
Sunland Nur (Joc) Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Oasis Tower 2
AL HEBIAH FOURTH 
Oasis Group Ventures Ltd
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Octavian West
BURJ KHALIFA
Omniyat Properties Development Corporation
BUSINESS BAY (L.L.C)

Olgana
AL SAFOUH FIRST
Abyaar Real Estate Development
DUBAI TECHNOLOGY AND MEDIA FREE ZONE AUTHORITY

Orbrit Holding
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Orbit Holdings Ltd
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Orchid Residence
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
New World Investments Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Oval Tower
BURJ KHALIFA
Dsec Corporation Fzc
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Oxford
NAD AL SHIBA
Gpd Investments Spv Three Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Palazza Arabia
JABAL ALI
Alternative Capital Invest (Gmbh)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Palm Spring
PALM JABAL ALI
Damac Properties Co.(L L C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Paradise One
AL BARSHA SOUTH FIFTH
Paradise Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Park Avenue
AL RUWAYYAH
Gulf Investments (Fzc)
DUBAI LAND ( L.L.C )

Park Lane
NAD AL SHIBA
Gpd Investments Spv Eight Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Park Residence
JABAL ALI
Reef Real Estate Investment Co (L.Lc)
LIMITLESS ( L L C )

Pearl Mizin
AL BARSHAA SOUTH THIRD
Pearl Properties
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Pixel Tower
JABAL ALI
Plus International Two Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Platinum 2
AL BARSHAA SOUTH THIRD
Acw Holding Ltd
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Platinum Tower
BURJ KHALIFA
Tameer Holding Investment (L.L.C)
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Point Residencia
AL BARSHA SOUTH FIFTH
Anis Property Investments Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Polygon Tower
BURJ KHALIFA
Sidra Holding Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Prodigy
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Antonia Resources Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Prodigy2
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Oakgrove Global Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Prodigy3
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Mirjana Resources Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Prodigy4
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Beiiza Resources Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Prodigy5
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Avetona Global Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Profile Residence
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Profile Residence Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Qpoint Liwan - Plot R003
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan - Plot R003
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan - Plot Mu001
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan - Plot Mu002
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company 
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan - Plot Mu003
NAD AL SHIBA 
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan - Plot Mu004
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan - Plot Mu005
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company 
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan - Plot Mu007
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R009
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company 
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R010
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R015
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R016
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R017
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot
R018 NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R020
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R022
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R051
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R0532
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R054
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R062
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R063
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R064
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R0712
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R083
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R085
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpoint Liwan-plot R096
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Qpointliwan-plot Mu006
NAD AL SHIBA
Al Mazaya Holding Company
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Quattro West
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Makaseb Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

R & R Tower I
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Satnam Singh
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Rescom Tower
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Rescom Holdings Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Rose Tower
AL JADAF
Her Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Rufi Century Tower
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Rufi Century Tower Ltd
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Rufi Gardens
AL WARSAN FIRST
Rufi Gardens Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Rufi Grand Apartments
AL WARSAN FIRST
Rufi Grand Apartments Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Rufi Heaven
NAD AL SHIBA
Rufi Heaven Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Rufi Luxury Heights
JABAL ALI
Rufi Luxury Heights Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Rufi Park View
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Rufi Park View Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Rufi Rose Gardens
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Rufi Rose Gardens Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Rufi Royal Crest
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Rufi Royal Crest Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Rufi Royale Residency
JABAL ALI
Rufi Down Town Residency Limited
LIMITLESS ( L L C )

Rufi Royale Residency
JABAL ALI
Rufi Down Town Residency Limited
LIMITLESS ( L L C )

Rufi Tower (Quattro)
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Makaseb Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Rufi Twin Towers
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Rufi Twin Towers Limited
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Sahara Livings
JABAL ALI
Sahara Livings Limited
DUBAI INDUSTRIAL CITY

Sahara Meadows
JABAL ALI
Sahara Livings Limited
DUBAI INDUSTRIAL CITY

Sami Q Tower
BURJ KHALIFA
Alternative Capital Invest (Gmbh)
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Sanctuary Falls
JABAL ALI
Shaikh Holdings Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Santeview
AL JADAF
Sungwon F.Z.E
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Sapphire
BURJ KHALIFA
Parshwa Holdings Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Schon Suites And Schon Residence
JABAL ALI
Yra Enterprises Limited
LIMITLESS ( L L C )

Sebco Residence
AL BARSHAA SOUTH THIRD
Sebco Limited
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Shaghayegh
AL JADAF
Grm Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Shamal Terraces 1
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Rose Homes Investment L L C
MIZIN (L.L.C)

Shamal Terraces 2
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Lootah Real Estate Development Est
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Shami Sports Tower
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Brookes Corporation
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Sheffield Classique
JABAL ALI
Sheffield Real Estate Llc
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Silicon Gate4
NAD AL SHIBA
Time Properties
DUBAI SILICON OASIS AUTHORITY

Silicon Heights2
NAD AL SHIBA
Vision Avenue Homes (Fzc)
DUBAI SILICON OASIS AUTHORITY

Silver Stallions
AL BARSHA SOUTH FIFTH
Stallion Developments Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Skyscraper
BURJ KHALIFA
Ahmed Abdul Rahim Alattar Properties
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Soccer Tower
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Infinity Emirates Investments Llc
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Soraya Tower1
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
New World Investments Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Spica 
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Anil Adinath Bastawade
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Sport One
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Axon Development (Fzc)
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Stadium Ponit
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Vascon Trading Ltd
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Sunrise 2
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Al Zahra Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Sunset Gardens A
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Al Zahra Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Sunset Gardens
B AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Al Zahra Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Tamani Art Royal Suites
BURJ KHALIFA
K M Properties (L.L.C)
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

Tamani Exclusive At El Matador
AL BARSHA SOUTH FIFTH
K M Properties (L.L.C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

The Binary
BURJ KHALIFA
Binary Development Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

The Court
BURJ KHALIFA
Tanmiyat Global Real Estate Development L L C
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

The Cube
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Trend Capital Gmbh & Co. Dubai Sport City Kg
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

The Forum
BURJ KHALIFA
Tanmiyat Global Real Estate Development L L C
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

The Gemini
BURJ KHALIFA
Omniyat Properties Ten Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

The K Hotel
JABAL ALI
Kleindienst Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

The Medalist
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Gold Vision Development Ltd
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

The Opus
BURJ KHALIFA
Omniyat Properties Six Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

The Pad
BURJ KHALIFA
Omniyat Properties Nine Limited
DUBAI PROPERTIES ( L.L.C )

The Plaza
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Burj Aldua'a Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

The Residence
NAD AL SHIBA
Boission Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

The Sama World Tower
AL HEBIAH FOURTH
Sama Emirates Estate Development (L.L.C)
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

The Summit
MARSA DUBAI
Eta Star Property Developers (L.L.C)
DUBAI TECHNOLOGY AND MEDIA FREE ZONE AUTHORITY

The Vantage
JABAL ALI
Marina Crown Real Estate (L.L.C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

The Vortex Tower 
NAD AL SHIBA
Manhattan Real Estate Holdings F.Z.C
DUBAI SILICON OASIS AUTHORITY

The Wind Tower I
AL THANYAH FIFTH
Wind One Inc Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

The Wind Tower Ii
AL THANYAH FIFTH
Wind Two Inc Limited
DUBAI MULTI COMMODITIES CENTER

Toronto
NAD AL SHIBA
Ahmed Abdul Rahim Alattar Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Tower 88
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Remah Holding Limited (Offshore)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Turquoise
JABAL ALI
Liquid Assets Limited
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Tuscan Residence 2 
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Damac Properties Co.(L L C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Tuscan Residence 2
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Damac Properties Co.(L L C)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

V-greece On The World
WORLD ISLANDS
V Resorts Ltd
NAKHEEL CO. (LLC)

Vancouver
NAD AL SHIBA
Ahmed Abdul Rahim Alattar Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Venetian Arabia
JABAL ALI
Alternative Capital Invest (Gmbh)
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Verde(Offices)
MADINAT DUBAI AL MELAHEYAH
Eta Star Property Developers (L.L.C)
DUBAI MARITIME CITY

Victory Heights
Victory Heights Golf Residential And Development Company (Llc)
DUBAI SPORTS CITY ( L.L.C )

Vista Del Lago
AL THANYAH FIFTH
Ahmed Abdul Rahim Alattar Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Vue Du Lac
AL THANYAH FIFTH
Ahmed Abdul Rahim Alattar Properties
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Westar 085
JABAL ALI
Westar Properties Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Westar Casablanca
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
Westar Properties Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )

Westar Galaxy
NAD AL SHIBA
Westar Properties Ltd
MIZIN (L.L.C)

29 Boulevard
BURJ KHALIFA
Emaar Properties PSJC
EMAAR PROPERTIES PJSC

7 West Villas
AL BARSHA SOUTH FOURTH
A S A Developers Ltd
NAKHEEL CO.( L.L.C )


----------



## rallyman

they have indeed plundered the escrow account.... when we last checked there was 9 mill dh only .... they had a letter from rera supposedly allowing this, rera said it was not meant in that context .... however we have also found out that funds in the escrow account can not be used to pay back any debtors and that INCLUDES investors ... go figure what its for !!


----------



## cayman1

rallyman said:


> they have indeed plundered the escrow account.... when we last checked there was 9 mill dh only .... they had a letter from rera supposedly allowing this, rera said it was not meant in that context .... however we have also found out that funds in the escrow account can not be used to pay back any debtors and that INCLUDES investors ... go figure what its for !!


Ok it is impossible to have $ back, have you think to do real estate recovery scheme by Smith e Ken real estate ? May be you recoup some $ .


----------



## Imre

Face81 said:


> For those who are interested in THE list of projects currently on hold:


Most of projects never started so whats ON HOLD ?

Anyway Marina 101 ,Dubai Star , 29 Boulevard etc.. U/C again! 

If this is the list of ON HOLD projects what about the cancelled projects ?


----------



## True Blue

Not a sign of any Nakheel or Emaar projects in that list. For example, why no mention of Nakheel's Dubai Promenade project at the marina?


----------



## Wac

List of on hold projects (including lawns ii, iii, iv, v). http://www.arabianbusiness.com/the-a-z-of-construction-projects-on-hold-in-dubai-405580.html?page=7


----------



## Freestyler

True Blue said:


> Not a sign of any Nakheel or Emaar projects in that list. For example, why no mention of Nakheel's Dubai Promenade project at the marina?


Emaar's 29 blvd is there, but Emaar has started that project again so it is no longer on hold.


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> Not a sign of any Nakheel or Emaar projects in that list. For example, why no mention of Nakheel's Dubai Promenade project at the marina?


Because everything is U/C , Palm Deira, Universe etc..


----------



## sgn7200

Wac said:


> List of on hold projects (including lawns ii, iii, iv, v). http://www.arabianbusiness.com/the-a-z-of-construction-projects-on-hold-in-dubai-405580.html?page=7


Those of you who are aware of the expressions used in the arny may have come across the expression "Missing in action, presumed dead". For the sake of argument, if we apply the same terminology to the situation facing us, can we say that these projects are "ON HOLD" and therefore presume they are on "INDEFINITE HOLD" and presumed "DEAD AND BURIED/CANCELLED". However facts speak otherwise. Having spoken to DEC in Dubai, my gut feeling is construction work at Lawns IV is up and running and the contractor for Lawns V is gathering his men and machinery to commence building work. INCIDENTALLY, THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE IN OR AROUND DUBAI CAN DO THE FORUM A BIG FAVOUR BY VISITING SITES OF iv & v AND TELL US WHAT THE REAL TRUTH IS? It would appear we need to divide the projects in two categories i.e. (a) II and III ("on hold/presume dead/cancelled") and (b) Lawns IV & V ("still breathing/presume alive"). Before we can take the discussion forward, let us learn some facts from some decent forum members who can give us status reports on IV & V which are incidentally, just next door to each other.


----------



## Dubaiiscool:)

*UAE says new investment law is ready*

*Minister says country is past crisis and will become stronger than before*

Staff

June 19, 2011 


*T*he UAE has completed the drafting of a long-awaited law that could allow foreign investors to have 100 per cent ownership in some projects and is awaiting final approval before it is enforced this year, the country’s minister of economy said in remarks published on Sunday.

Sultan bin Saeed al Mansouri also told the Arabic language daily 'Al Khaleej' the UAE had overcome more than “95 per cent” of the effects of the 2008 global fiscal distress and is set to become stronger than before the crisis.

Asked about the UAE’s investments in some Arab countries hit by the current political turmoil, the minister said the government had received assurances for protection from those countries in line with signed accords.

“We have finished drafting the new investment law but there is one item that needs to be agreed on…the rift is that who will sign foreign investment agreements—the ministry of economy or the ministry of finance?....we have referred this issue to legal parties which are now studying it,” he said.

“We are awaiting a response from those parties so the law will be presented to the competent authorities for endorsement….I would like to point out that we have no problem as to who will sign investment agreements, be it the ministry of economy or the finance, but we believe in the need for coordination and distribution of powers in this respect for both parties.”

Mansouri said it would be up to the federal cabinet to set the percentage allowed by foreign investors in projects in the UAE, the second largest Arab economy and foreign capital destination after Saudi Arabia. But he added the percentage would vary, depending on the type of investment and size of the project.

“In some cases, the ownership could reach 100 per cent while in other cases it could be much lower,” he said.

Asked about the UAE investments in Arab countries hit by unrest, Mansouri said he hoped those countries would tackle their problems and restore stability to preserve the Emirati assets there. “But we have already received assurances from those countries to protect our investments there in line with agreements signed between us,” he said.

He said the UAE, despite the crisis impact on its economy and default problems, had remained an attractive destination for foreign direct investment (FDI).“We are now have serious talks with many investors from the Arab World, Europe and other areas seeking to invest in tourism, industry and other sectors in the UAE…these investors are looking for lucrative and safe markets for their investments and are trying to enter the UAE for this purpose,” he said.

Mansouri acknowledged that the UAE had been strongly affected by the global crisis given its openness to the world economy.

He said the process of evaluating the impact on the UAE’s economy and investment was not easy on the grounds the country is more integrated into the world economy than other Arab nations.

He said that 2009 was a year of damage assessment rather than taking decisions in order to determine the exact effects of the crisis on the country and work out plans to tackle these repercussions.

“In 2010, we began devising solutions to the problem, including the Dubai World debt problem…I would like to point out that the government handled many problems during that year wisely and slowly…we then moved into 2011, which was a year of setting off as the UAE reasserted itself on the global economic map by tackling most of challenges arising from the crisis,” he said.

“I can now say that the UAE has overcome 95 per cent of the crisis repercussions on its economy and is on the verge of fully recovering so it will rejoin the global economic race and emerge stronger, more immune and more experienced than it was before the crisis.”

http://www.emirates247.com/business...w-investment-law-is-ready-2011-06-19-1.403454


----------



## 234sale

Imre said:


> Most of projects never started so whats ON HOLD ?
> 
> Anyway Marina 101 ,Dubai Star , 29 Boulevard etc.. U/C again!
> 
> If this is the list of ON HOLD projects what about the cancelled projects ?


Canada Business Centre also under C, and many others

This list means very little..

Just a stab in the right dirrection


----------



## Imre

*It's official: Dubai to get only 10,000 new units in 2011*

*Developments delayed by two years are now in process of being completed, handed over*

The Dubai Land Department (DLD) expects about 10,000 new units to enter market this year, putting at rest speculation of the commercial and residential market is oversupplied.

In an e-mailed statement to Emirates 24|7, the department said: “The emirate will witness the entry of about 10,000 residential and office units during the current year.” 

No further details were given. Industry sources say almost 6,000 units have been completed or nearing completion. 

http://www.emirates247.com/property...-10-000-new-units-in-2011-2011-06-19-1.403459


----------



## Philippa C

I had an interesting conversation with 2 good friends last week. 
One has just bought an Al Reem in Arabian Ranches for 1.4AED and rented it out for 125KAED. Quite a good return but she says prices have since gone up.

Another recently bought a Springs villa and is now looking for one for her brother. She said prices are also going up. A Springs end unit recently came on the market for 1.25m and within days there were 8 offers on it. It later sold for 1.45M. 

Maybe it's just a bounce but good to hear none the less.


----------



## Philippa C

Imre said:


> *It's official: Dubai to get only 10,000 new units in 2011*
> ]


Does anyone really know the true status of the oversupply? Hopefully it'll be less than has been predicted.


----------



## bizzybonita

*Dubai Ruler restructures Dubai Real Estate Corporation's board of directors
*

Dubai: His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice- President and Prime Minister of the UAE, in his capacity as the Ruler of Dubai, Saturday issued
a decree restructuring the Dubai Real Estate Corporation’s board of directors.

As per the decree No. 20, Shaikh Maktoum Bin Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Deputy Ruler of Dubai, will be the Board Chairman, while Hesham Abdullah Al Qassim, the corporation’s CEO is Deputy Chairman.

The members include Sami Dhaen Al Qamzi, Abdullah Ahmad Al Habai, Mohammad Hamad Obaid Al Shehhi, Rashid Mohammad Rashid Al Mutawa and Tareq Saeed Al Ghaith. 

The board will serve for a renewable term of three years. The decree takes effect from the date of its issuance, and is to be published in the official gazette.

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...ate-corporation-s-board-of-directors-1.823398


----------



## bizzybonita

Dubai leasing guide for June


http://gulfnews.com//polopoly_fs/1.818028!menu/standard/file/A5C92F8DC2B94099BA0D0B79CBD50D7F.pdf


----------



## bizzybonita

Property prices will hold, not fold
*Residential stabilising; asset, rental values to decline 10
*
By Parag Deulgaonkar
Published Thursday, June 16, 2011

Prices for residential properties in Dubai and Abu Dhabi have started to stabilise and will “hold” rather than “fold” over the next six months, according to a global investment bank.

“We think there are signs of price stabilisation across the residential market, with the recovery in Dubai (in selected areas) stronger than Abu Dhabi. Annualised, the Abu Dhabi market has been prone to less pronounced swings,” Nomura said in a report released today.

“In the past two months, we find some positive momentum in the market – but this is prior to the traditionally slow summer season. We expect residential prices to ‘hold’ rather than ‘fold‘ over the next six months. We still see overall asset and rental values falling 10 per cent in aggregate in 2011,” Chet Riley, the author of the report, noted.

“We do expect more rental pressure in Abu Dhabi real estate as supply is added and this may put further pressure on capital value,” Riley added.

Abu Dhabi, which has consistently enjoyed a yield premium, is getting “squeezed” as rental values catch up to Dubai. Besides, cross-border renting is likely to abate as rents drop in the capital and more supply is added.

“We view both markets as co-dependent and the yield differential could close further,” the report said.

In its 2011 Middle East and North Africa (Mena) Real Estate Investor Sentiment survey, Jones Lang LaSalle mentioned that Dubai had already passed the supply peak, while Abu Dhabi was still approaching the peak of the supply cycle. And so Abu Dhabi rents and sale prices were expected to continue to decline in the coming year. It believed that Dubai will witness “some stability” in capital values, but Abu Dhabi will see “highest” value declines over the next 12 months.

According to Nomura, in the past two months it has seen anecdotal signs that the mortgage financing market is starting to free up, but this is selective with banks still reluctant to take on too much real estate risk. It believes banks have got some lending comfort following the launch of Dubai government’s Tayseer (guaranteed funding) plan.

Currently, 114 projects have been registered with the Dubai Land Department (DLD) under the plan. For projects to be selected under Tayseer, they should be registered with the DLD; project not less than 60 per cent must be completed; have an escrow account; must be moving forward with construction plans with no issues with buyers.

Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) registered properties (1,400 at one count), Dubai has seen completion of 129 projects since January 1, 2009. Rera has reviewed 450 projects in the last two years and 237 expected to be completed in due course. The emirate has seen cancellation of 217 as at May 31, 2011.

Many of the developments, Nomura said, expected in 2010 were delayed to 2011 and are now in the process of being handed over. This could lead to an average 68 per cent increase in reported revenues across the sector and act as a positive catalyst around quarterly results.

“We think the bulk of asset impairments have been taken through 2009 and 2010, and companies have emerged with cleaner balance sheets. We should see sector earnings also recover (somewhat), which may in turn lead to some near-term positive catalysts,” the report said. 

http://www.emirates247.com/property/property-prices-will-hold-not-fold-2011-06-16-1.403140


----------



## Ahmed N

I was told on Friday that the main construction works is due to commence 19th June Sunday (yesterday). Can anybody verify this. Can you please post some pictures - and give an update - how many workers, are they working round the clock (is it just a dream).


----------



## Josau

Dubai homeowners face legal limbo over building upkeep
Unregistered OAs struggle to pay bills as developers relinquish responsibility for maintenance 
By Elizabeth Broomhall
Monday, 20 June 2011 12:53 PM

Dubai homeowners are facing legal limbo as developers prematurely withdraw their maintenance services in anticipation of owners taking over the building’s upkeep, a property lawyer said.

Owner associations (OA) waiting for registration have been left unable to pay bills, collect service fees or manage maintenance contracts after developers relinquished responsibility for building upkeep, said Brent Baldwin, an associate at Dubai’s Hadef & Partners.

“It’s a no-man’s land. Some developers want to get out and they’re trying to leave the owners to it. But [until registered] owners don’t have the legal status to do it so they need the developer to be involved.”

A number of buildings have seen cooling and electricity services cut-off as confusion over bill payments and maintenance fee collection delays the settlement of outstanding invoices.


“What does an owner do?” Baldwin said. “There isn’t a lot they can do, apart from try to run it themselves and take on the personal risk or try and convince the developer to stay involved.”

Under strata law, owner associations (OA) are entitled to oversee the maintenance budgets and contracts of their properties, but must be registered with the emirate’s land department.

Dubai Land Department said earlier this month it had registered 218 OA in the emirate and expected a 70 percent rise in owner-managed properties by the end of the year.

Without DLD registration, OA’s have no legal standing, meaning they cannot open a bank account, pay bills or hire contractors to oversee building maintenance.

Baldwin said some developers had seen an opportunity to generate funds from OAs awaiting waiting to be licensed.

“Unless registered an OA cannot open a bank account because they are not a legal entity, so some have been asking developers if they can open one for them. The developer says yes… but we want a fee of AED4000 a month. It’s not illegal but it’s not a good faith relationship.”

Developers who once saw millions of dollars in profit during Dubai’s real estate boom have struggled to stay afloat after emirate’s property bubble burst in late 2008.

Service fees have been a particular bone of contention between developers and homeowners, with buyers accusing developers of charging inflated fees for building upkeep.

In projects such as Nakheel’s Discovery Gardens and the Palm Jumeirah, default rates on service charges among homeowners are estimated to be as high as 50 percent.

The shortfall in funding may spur a decline in maintenance quality, which raises questions over who has legal responsibility for the property’s upkeep, Baldwin said.

“[If] the building becomes substantially run down because people haven’t been paying their service charges…the developer could arguably say maintenance was the responsibility of the owners through payment of the service charges.”

While confusion remains over the scope of strata law regulations and their impact on developers, disputes over service charges are likely to continue. Frank Thompson, a resident of Nakheel’s Shoreline apartments and chairman of an OA waiting for registration, said tenants were suffering as maintenance standards declined.

“We had quite a good, secure parking system which broke down but because Nakheel hadn’t paid the contractors they wouldn’t service it,” he said. “Now anyone can park there and access the beach, which is meant to be for the exclusive use of residents. Everybody is upset about it.

“Nakheel openly said they just didn’t have the money.”

2010 Arabian Business Publishing Ltd. All rights reserved.


----------



## Josau

My comment to the above on AB was:
_This mess shows again the governments inability to regulate. Why is something so simple so complicated. It is being efficiently done in multiple owners developments around the world. Let a professional maintenance company run the building from A to Z, have a board of elected representatives of the owners regularly check on this company, hold once a year a general assembly in order to vote on the main points and on the budget, or call a general assembly if there is a big decision to be made ( renovation of the facade etc.)._
What they didn't print was:
_Maybe it is impossible to democratically run a building in a country which isn't a democracy._


----------



## Face81

*Dubai to get only 10,000 new units in 2011*

Developments delayed by two years are now in process of being completed, handed over

By Parag Deulgaonkar 
Published Sunday, June 19, 2011 

The Dubai Land Department (DLD) expects about 10,000 new units to enter market this year, putting at rest speculation of the commercial and residential market is oversupplied.

In an e-mailed statement to Emirates 24|7, the department said: “The emirate will witness the entry of about 10,000 residential and office units during the current year.” 

No further details were given. Industry sources say almost 6,000 units have been completed or nearing completion. 

Jones Lang LaSalle, a global real estate consultancy, said in April that Dubai is expected to see completion of close to 28,000 new units by 2011-end, bringing total residential stock to 338,000.

UBS, the biggest Swiss bank, said last year that it estimated housing supply by end of 2011 to be roughly 360,000 with oversupply potentially at 150,000 residential units. 

Sheikh Maktoum bin Hasher Al Maktoum, President, Al Fajer Properties, told this website earlier: “I am expecting very limited supply to come into the market… there isn’t that much supply. We are in construction field as well and we haven’t been getting any orders for the last three to four years,” 

Most of the project which were supposed to get completed in 2009 and 2010 are close to completion and handover this year. But in certain new districts of Dubai, handover has been delayed due to lack of infrastructure and utility connections. 

Dubai has witnessed completion of 129 projects since 2009 with 237 out of 450 projects likely to be completed in due course, according to government’s bond prospectus posted on the London Stock Exchange. Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), the regulatory arm of Dubai Land Department, said 217 property projects have been cancelled as of May 31.Currently, there were 455 registered developers and 893 registered brokers in Dubai as of May 31. 

Currently, 114 projects have been registered with the Dubai Land Department (DLD) under the plan. For projects to be selected under Tayseer, they should be registered with the DLD; project not less than 60 per cent must be completed; have an escrow account; must be moving forward with construction plans with no issues with buyers. 

The government prospectus further states: “Following the significant price declines since the fourth quarter of 2008 (in part reflecting the withdrawal of speculative buyers from the market), prices have since stabilised in completed developments.”

Last week, Nomura, a global investment bank, said prices for residential properties in Dubai and Abu Dhabi have started to stabilise and will “hold” rather than “fold” over the next six months.

It said that in the past two months, it has seen some positive momentum in the market – but this is prior to the traditionally slow summer season. It expects overall asset and rental values falling 10 per cent in aggregate in 2011.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...-10-000-new-units-in-2011-2011-06-19-1.403459


----------



## MarkWass

*Dubai turns over a new leaf*

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-turns-over-new-leaf-405588.html
Dubai turns over a new leaf
*By* Gerhard Hope
· Monday, 20 June 2011 2:40 PM
The recent bond prospectus that Dubai posted on the website of the London Stock Exchange revealed a fascinating glimpse under the hood, as it were, of the economic engine keeping the emirate ticking over. The construction sector accounted for $7.5bn and 9.4% of GDP in 2010. It declined 19.5% in 2009 and 14.7% in 2010, after growing 23.1% in 2007 and 18.2% in 2008.
In its review of 450 projects as at 31 May, RERA reports that 237 are expected to be completed in due course, while 217 registered projects have been cancelled. The agency adds that 129 projects have been completed since the beginning of 2009.
*For those who are interested, the projects section of the RERA website contains a detailed assessment of all projects in Dubai and their current status, ranging from ‘under way’ to ‘cancelled’. *In particular, if one looks at the list of projects that did not even get off the drawing board, does one realise how high on Cloud Nine the emirate was at the peak of its boom period. Nevertheless, the real estate and business services sector accounted for $11bn, or 13.7% of GDP, in 2010.
The prospectus also outlines Dubai’s Tayseer initiative, launched last year. A total of 114 projects were selected for this programme, under which the Department of Land and Properties certifies projects according to due diligence criteria. These include having adequate infrastructure ‘either planned or in place’, a ‘properly-managed’ escrow trust account and ‘full and timely’ financial reporting. One can only wonder why such common-sense criteria were never applied from the outset. However, no matter how belated the hindsight, these measures will go a long way to restore confidence in the property sector, which will have a resounding knock-on effect on the construction industry as well.

Hot on the heels of the prospectus followed the news that the Dubai government had put up the funds to allow master developer Nakheel to complete Jumeirah Golf Estates, an ambitious 306-villa development on the edge of ‘New’ New Dubai. At the time, such projects seemed to indicate the emirate’s seemingly inexhaustible appetite for expansion. Having conquered the beachfront and even the sea, it now seemed determined to urbanise the desert as well.
‘New’ Dubai, which includes such developments as the International Media Production Zone, home to various Damac projects such as the three-tower Crescent and Lago Vista, has been languishing since the property bubble burst. Residents were suddenly able to migrate to previously unaffordable high-end areas such as Dubai Marina.
By allowing Nakheel to complete Jumeirah Golf Estates, the Dubai government is sending a strong signal that the development of the emirate will be completed. There is also a lot of construction activity on this side of Dubai in terms of infrastructure.
Whether or not the renewed interest will benefit local contractors or suppliers, who mostly have set their sights on Abu Dhabi and further afield to keep the home fires burning, remains to be seen.
_(Gerhard Hope is the Editor of Construction Week. The opinions expressed are his own.)_


I just tried to post the below comment on AB after this article. Wonder if they’ll put it up…

“Gerhard, you say: ‘For those who are interested, the projects section of the RERA website contains a detailed assessment of all projects in Dubai and their current status, ranging from ‘under way’ to ‘cancelled’.’
Thousands of investors are very interested… and have regularly been checking the RERA website over recent years, but sadly the info is not in any way ‘detailed’ or ‘current’. Referring to project status, you mention ‘cancelled’. Would you be able to give an example of one project that is classified as ‘cancelled’ on that website. Perhaps I am not looking hard enough, but I can’t find any..”


----------



## True Blue

Philippa C said:


> I had an interesting conversation with 2 good friends last week.
> One has just bought an Al Reem in Arabian Ranches for 1.4AED and rented it out for 125KAED. Quite a good return but she says prices have since gone up.
> 
> Another recently bought a Springs villa and is now looking for one for her brother. She said prices are also going up. A Springs end unit recently came on the market for 1.25m and within days there were 8 offers on it. It later sold for 1.45M.
> 
> Maybe it's just a bounce but good to hear none the less.


Been hearing similar stories around the market. Could be nervous investors trying to predict the bottom and panicing thinking they have missed it.

Or like you say, the dead cat bounce. But I don't think so.


----------



## MarkWass

*When will the penny finally drop?*

TB, 234 and all. I won't go into details, but assume we are *all *now well and truly done... with believing the media bs and carefully scripted articles that *STILL* are out there in their abundance, recurring on an almost daily basis (Emirates 24/7, Arabian Business, Zawya, AME info, Dubai Chronicle, Kipp Report, Construction Week etc. etc. many of which the obsessive copy/paster brigade have copy/pasted on this thread in the past..)

You guys may have done well by getting in early, but from a longer term economic sustainable point of view, this market place will surely need regular fuel in the foreseeable future?

And in this case, as we all know, in this case that 'fuel' is external investment, and a* LOT* of it is required. To encourage that much needed fuel, this marketplace needed from day one: simple school boy regulation and control. When will those with the power realise that google etc is easy to use to get the facts and what is needed is not "words" anymore, surely everyone is so *booooooored* of that now, but actual very basic regulation?


----------



## Imre

*Dubai core business in excellent shape: Sheikh Ahmed*

*All economic indicators are good, says Al Tayer*

By Reuters

Published Tuesday, June 21, 2011 


Key sectors of the Gulf Arab emirate of Dubai's economy grew in the first half of the year, top officials said on Tuesday.

"I can really say the core business of Dubai is in very good shape," Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum, Chairman of Dubai's Supreme Fiscal Committee, told a news conference.

He declined to say whether the emirate planned to inject more money into the Dubai Financial Support Fund, which was set up to support state-linked firms.

"All the economic indicators are good," Ahmed Humaid Al Tayer, another Supreme Fiscal Committee member and Chairman of Dubai International Financial Centre, told reporters.

"The sectors of trade, tourism, air transport, services, all have seen growth in 2009, 2010 and the first half of this year," he said.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...ellent-shape-sheikh-ahmed-2011-06-21-1.403974


----------



## Imre

*Majority of Interim Owners' Associations in Dubai 'illegal'*

*Common area plans have to be registered to become legal entities, says legal firm*

By Parag Deulgaonkar

Published Wednesday, June 22, 2011 

Majority of the Interim Owners' Associations (IOAs) in Dubai are not legal entities as not many common area site plans have been registered with the Land Department, says a top legal firm.

“Law 27 of 2007 concerning ownership of jointly owned properties says the owner association (OA) comes into existence once the first title deed is issued, however, jointly owned property is not created until the common area site plan is registered. Not many common area site plans have been registered so technically we believe the majority of the IOA's are not legal entities within the meaning of the law,” Michael Lunjevich, Partner, Hadef & Partners, told Emirates 24/7. 

http://www.emirates247.com/property...ciations-in-dubai-illegal-2011-06-22-1.404020


----------



## boston101

*Power of Attorney*
Hello, can anyone share a sample POA which I'll need to make in a foreign country and send it to an agent in Dubai to sell my property? In case someone has done this before, can you please share your experience on what exactly needs to be done to have an acceptable POA in Dubai and whether its an easy process?

Thanks in advance


----------



## DXBQuantum

boston101 said:


> *Power of Attorney*
> Hello, can anyone share a sample POA which I'll need to make in a foreign country and send it to an agent in Dubai to sell my property? In case someone has done this before, can you please share your experience on what exactly needs to be done to have an acceptable POA in Dubai and whether its an easy process?
> 
> Thanks in advance


PM me your email address, I will send a copy, its a very easy process.

Get typing done in Al Barsha Courts ( 200 AED) then go to the notary public next door 8am-12pm or 4.pm-8pm then get it attested 60 AED, if you get there at a good time it will take around 30 minutes, but sometimes it can be very busy. 

:cheers:


----------



## Josau

MarkWass said:


> TB, 234 and all. I won't go into details, but assume we are *all *now well and truly done... with believing the media bs and carefully scripted articles that *STILL* are out there in their abundance, recurring on an almost daily basis (Emirates 24/7, Arabian Business, Zawya, AME info, Dubai Chronicle, Kipp Report, Construction Week etc. etc. many of which the obsessive copy/paster brigade have copy/pasted on this thread in the past..)
> 
> You guys may have done well by getting in early, but from a longer term economic sustainable point of view, this market place will surely need regular fuel in the foreseeable future?
> 
> And in this case, as we all know, in this case that 'fuel' is external investment, and a* LOT* of it is required. To encourage that much needed fuel, this marketplace needed from day one: simple school boy regulation and control. When will those with the power realise that google etc is easy to use to get the facts and what is needed is not "words" anymore, surely everyone is so *booooooored* of that now, but actual very basic regulation?


^^I am so with you on this and to prove your point, look at Imre's first post right after yours, #26650, yet another article full of empty words, which was published by emirates 24/7 and AB.
The second post by Imre, #26651, highlites another big problem: getting the regulation up and running. We have been waiting for this for years and as the article shows, really nothing has happened. It is really sad, but the level of incompetence is still very high in Dubai's administration even though I must admit, it has improved.


----------



## Face81

*Tourists add fuel to Dubai's hotel industry*

Overall occupancy achieved as of December 2010 was 75 per cent, up one per cent from 2009 figures

By Nancy Tabbara and Yousef Wahbah, Special to Gulf News Published: 00:00 June 22, 2011 

Dubai: Dubai has once again emerged as a top player compared to the rest of the region in terms of hotel occupancy, stability of room rates and consequently of rooms yield.

Overall occupancy achieved as of year-end December 2010 was 75 per cent, up one per cent from 2009 figures.

For December, Dubai hotels outperformed all the other major regional cities including Jeddah, Beirut, and Cairo which posted occupancy levels of 68, 65, and 72.2 per cent respectively.

With an overall occupancy rate of 82 per cent achieved in December, Dubai also outperformed Abu Dhabi which recorded 80 per cent.

Article continues below

Leading the strong occupancy metrics were city hotels which posted a 3 per cent increase to 73 per cent as of end 2010, while beach hotels experienced a 3 per cent decline from 83 per cent.

These are healthy numbers when you compare to elsewhere around the world and take into consideration that hotels usually break even at 60 per cent occupancy levels.

Strong performance

Dubai was also leading other cities in the region in terms of occupancy. From a low of 56.1 per cent in August 2010, occupancy in November rose to 87.3 per cent before falling to 82 per cent in December 2010.

The pace of rebound from the depths of August last year is indicative of Dubai's resilience as a tourism destination.

As Ramadan falls in August this year, it will be interesting to compare hotel occupancy levels then to same month last year.

The year began with a bang. In January, Dubai registered an overall occupancy of 82 per cent at an average room rate (ARR) of Dh900 to result in a RevPar of Dh738. In comparison to 2010 metrics, there was an increase in RevPar from Dh691 to Dh738.

More rooms in pipeline

In February, overall hotel occupancy in Dubai reached 90.2 per cent at an ARR of Dh939, with beach hotels leading the market at occupancy of 89 per cent and an ARR of Dh1,344.

As a result, Dubai achieved a year-to-date RevPar of Dh789 showing an increase of 4.9 per cent from the previous year at an achieved overall occupancy of 85 per cent and an ARR of Dh919 respectively.

March was even better. RevPar jumped 7.9 per cent over February 2010 and occupancy grew by 2.8 per cent.

A sharp improvement in the first-quarter numbers compared to those of last year bodes well for Dubai hospitality sector in 2011. It is therefore safe to assume that Dubai may not face any danger of a further decline in revenue or profitability as the rebound is well underway.

Despite the traditionally slow months of summer when inbound tourism is down, there is certainly no cause for alarm if the rooms' inventory that is expected to go online is managed well.

According to STR data, the region is projected to have over 52,000 rooms entering the market in the next two years. Dubai leads this growth with over 30,000 rooms to be added to the current supply.



*The writers are with Ernst & Young's Mena real estate and hospitality advisory services.



http://gulfnews.com/business/tourism/tourists-add-fuel-to-dubai-s-hotel-industry-1.824837


----------



## skippy

Anyone heard of the following?

Law No 9, which provides a sliding scale for refunds, has been signed and approved. The law however, only becomes official and legally binding once it gets published in Dubai’s official gazette.
Rera will apply the law and give directions to developers on what steps to take.Mohammad Kamal, Head of Real Estate

Rera officials couldn’t be reached for comment by press time. The new rules amend previous laws and will frame new procedures for “terminations of sale and purchase agreements for off-plan units and will set the damages payable to the developer depending on the progress of construction”, according to Lovells law firm.

Lovells stated that if a “developer’s project is cancelled by Rera” the “purchaser shall be refunded all monies paid to date”.

The changes may help unravel months of uncertainty by investors who have faithfully continued to pay instalments to developers who failed to begin any construction on projects to which buyers legally signed contracts.

“Law 9 will provide significant guidance to the real estate market and will clarify the uncertainty on terminations and damages,” said Lovells.

Mohammad Kamal, Lovells Head of Real Estate Middle East, said the final version of the new law contains the full refund provision for cancelled projects only.

Kamal was part of a Rera working group that helped draft the new rules.

“Rera will apply the law and give directions to developers on what steps to take,” Kamal said, noting that arbitration won’t be needed because “the disputes would be settled under the law”. Compensation rate

As previously reported by XPRESS, the new law contains a sliding scale that spells out the rate of investor compensation to be paid by developers based upon the amount of construction completed.

Roughly 875 projects are now being visited by government inspectors across Dubai to determine the progress of each development.

The new law, meanwhile, dictates that all terminations “must be served through the Dubai Land Department and the purchaser shall be given 30 days to rectify a breach”.

Sliding scale 

The following is the percentage of refunds as provided for in Law No 9:
■80 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 100 per cent of cash he/she has paid to date
■60 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 40 per cent of purchase price
■Less than 60 per cent completed: Buyer forfeits 25 per cent of purchase price
■Construction hasn’t started: Buyer forfeits 30 per cent of cash he/she has paid to date
■When project is officially cancelled by Rera: Buyer shall be refunded all cash he/she has paid to date.


----------



## Darwalamir

Can someone please advise us what is the next step with the Rufi Twin Tower project nothing has been done for the past 12 months.


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## rallyman

this was out ages ago, but there is no one in reality applying any laws here i'm afraid ... rera direct you to the courts that takes ( mine anyway) 2 1/2 years to decide .... i think we need to bring this madhoff style ponzi scheme out in the open , if madhoff can go to jail so should robin and his merry men


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## MarkWass

Just seen this article. Perhaps I shouldn’t do the copy/paste thing here, after my recent comments regarding scepticism towards the media, but it is quite well written and perhaps summarise up some of the logistical issues that may be happening ‘behind the scenes’ in what is a huge ‘gulf’ between actual real cancellations taking place and all the media ‘hype and talk’ of project cancellations?




http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/investors-must-wait-for-refunds-1.826380

Investors must wait for refunds
Developers with cancelled projects told to return cash within 14 days of notice
•	By Manoj Nair, Associate Editor
•	Published: 00:00 June 24, 2011
• 

•	Share

•	Image Credit: Oliver Clarke/Gulf News
•	The sun rises over Dubai. How the whole process of the project cancellations is conducted and funds returned will be a litmus test for the Dubai real estate market’s revival.
Dubai: With project cancellation announcements doing the rounds in Dubai, investors may finally be in sight of recovering their funds — or at least a portion — tied to such developments. Even then, it may not be a straight and narrow path that leads the investors to their intended destination.
According to diktats (order) issued by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), developers with cancelled projects are to return the funds from the respective escrow accounts within 14 days of receiving notice. It also applies to those funds which were withdrawn by the developer from the account.
If the funds in the escrow accounts prove insufficient — and it may well be the case given the track record of many of these developers — they are then obliged to make repayments from their own resources. This must take place within 60 days of the cancellation notice from Rera. (However, there is a rider which states that Rera can extend the timeline.)
"Initially, Rera will order a bank holding the project escrow account to return all funds into its effective control which will then be involved in distribution to purchasers," said Shahram Safai, partner and head of real estate at the law firm Afridi & Angell.
"It is contemplated that all purchasers will have the same priority for receiving a refund of payment. It remains to be seen how this is implemented in practice."
According to sources, the refunds are yet to reach the investors, given the maximum 60-day timeframe that developers have been given to do so. While investors can use the time to get all their papers in place to ensure their rights will be honoured, it also gives developers a bit of a wriggle room.
According to the rights vested with Rera, if developers do fail to comply, the government agency can take whatever procedures necessary to protect investor rights, including referring the matter to the competent judicial authorities.
"The refunds will be a difficult issue to navigate given the multitude of existing issues between developers and purchasers," said Safai.
"The process will most likely also result in some disputes which will take several years to resolve."
Vital point
How the whole process of the project cancellations are conducted and funds returned will be a litmus test for the Dubai real estate market's revival. And where developers mount challenges and the way local courts interpret them will create the necessary legal precedents, which are just as vital in creating a mature property marketplace.
In early 2010 Decree No 6 came into force, which provides for Rera to cancel a development once it has received a technical report. There are a number of scenarios under which Rera may exercise its power, including of course one where the developer has failed (without an acceptable excuse) to commence construction.
It may cancel a development where there has been a breach by the developer of its obligations under the Escrow Law No 8 of 2007 or where the developer is bankrupt.
"It is our experience that Rera will often rely upon a variety of reasons for cancellation, sometimes referring to more general justifications such as the developer is not serious in carrying out the project," said Safai.
On its part, Rera must notify the developer in writing of the decision to cancel. Under Decree No 6, the developer has seven working days, commencing from the date on which the developer was notified of the cancellation, to challenge the decision.
The developer's challenge to cancellation should include copies of all relevant correspondence with Rera, the Land Department, the master-developer, and other third parties, in support of his position.
For example, the developer may have paid the master-developer the purchase price for the plot and obtained all necessary consents and licences to commence construction, but may be prevented due to factors beyond its control.
Once legal challenges are mounted, it may be that only the courts can provide a final verdict on the status of these developers and their projects. Only then will investors know how near — or far — they are from getting their funds back.
Final clarity not available
Dubai: A final clarity on the identity of the cancelled projects in Dubai is still not there.
"We have not yet had sight of a definitive list of cancelled projects from Rera," said Shahram Safai of Afridi & Angell.
"However, we anticipate that such a list would include a good portion of the ‘on-hold' projects that Rera has already publicised in the past."
Given that most of the cancellations relate to single-project developers, they do not even have the leeway that master-developers have of offering options in any of their other developments in lieu of refunds.
"It was in the media that Nakheel had offered buyers to either swap for another project that is closer to completion or poised to restart construction, or to wait five years for a refund of their down payments," said Richard Paul, associate director at Cluttons.
"I think however that those developers who don't have the same presence as Nakheel may struggle to offer such a solution — they simply don't have the funds."
Project cancellations have been making the headlines in Dubai. But in terms of plugging the supply-demand gap, has the market already discounted these cancellations?
Project cancellations by themselves will not have much of an impact on the fundamentals currently at work in the local property market.
Final picture still hazy
To go ahead with a project cancellation, the Real Estate Regulatory Agency must take the following steps:
•	It must prepare a technical report explaining the reasons for cancellation.
•	It must notify the developer in writing either by registered post or e-mail of the cancellation decision.
•	It must (at the expense of the developer) appoint an accredited auditor with the task of (a) assessing the financial position of the project, (b) verifying the monies that have been paid to the developer or credited to the escrow account and (c) identifying the monies that have been disposed by the developer.
•	It must ask the escrow account trustee (or the developer, in respect of any monies that have been withdrawn from the escrow account) to repay the unit purchasers the sums deposited in the account (or withdrawn by the developer from the account). This repayment must take place within 14 days of the date of cancellation.


----------



## unknownpleasures

What does RERA classify as cancelled,,,is that the same when a project is not progressing or is on hold?

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/investors-must-wait-for-refunds-1.826380


----------



## Towers3

unknownpleasures said:


> What does RERA classify as cancelled,,,is that the same when a project is not progressing or is on hold?
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/investors-must-wait-for-refunds-1.826380


Hi: 

Apologies if you've read this before but this was an interview from RERA's CEO. RERA don't want to want cancel anything b/c then investors have a case to go to court. RERA don't care... Its all PR... 

http://www.constructionweekonline.c...-boss-a-lot-of-project-cancellations-in-2011/


----------



## unknownpleasures

Thanks for that Towers 3,,,and I agree with you it sounds to be all talk and no action!


----------



## MarkWass

This is total guesswork, but it crossed my mind the other day... I wonder if the reason why RERA have not 'cancelled' projects, as one might have thought is perhaps they have found that they currently actually do not have the full legal power to do so?

And I wonder if this new investor protection law that the media have reported that is in the pipeline (apparently)... Is to create mechanisms to give the regulators more control?

Do any of the Dubai based property gurus know if this could be the case, or is my imagination just getting the better of me?


----------



## Towers3

unknownpleasures said:


> Thanks for that Towers 3,,,and I agree with you it sounds to be all talk and no action!


We've got investors organising building work and developers refusing to invest, only in Dubai :nuts: The RERA CEO says only whats good for Dubai. 

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...s-moving-ahead-rera-chief-2011-03-16-1.369062

All your answers are here.

http://www.emirates247.com/columns/...erty-consolidation-issues-2011-06-22-1.328223


----------



## digidi

Does anybody know what is going on with stadium point in sports city. 
I paid 30% deporit in 2007 and it's still a hole in the ground.
Trying to get in touch with the developers is fruitless and I feel I have lost my investment and don't know what to do


----------



## VCollaborator

*Dubai creates corporation for government real estate*



> Joanne Bladd
> 
> 26 June 2011
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dubai has established a commercial corporation to own and manage all properties registered in the name of the government, state-run news agency WAM said on Sunday.
> Dubai Real Estate Corporation will have financial and administrative independence, WAM said, will be able to contract with third parties, and will be open to sue and be sued.
> The entity will be responsible for all development, purchase, sale, lease and management of these properties, the agency said, citing a decree from Dubai ruler HH Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum.
> “The Corporation aims to own and manage the properties… including the ownership, reconstruction, investment and the use and exploitation of land…” the agency said.


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-creates-corporation-for-government-real-estate--407129.html


----------



## MarkWass

amplesou said:


> ..imop


http://www.acronymfinder.com/IMOP.html

:lol:


----------



## 234sale

IMO the P must of been a slip to the right


----------



## MarkWass

Yes I guessed something like that, but having seen him use the term IMOP in hundreds of posts.. I was just pulling his leg:lol:


By the way now that it seems unknownpleasures seems to have made a return to SSC after a few months absence, I wonder if his buddy unknownpleasores, who mysteriously went missing around the same date before, will be back soon? http://www.skyscrapercity.com/member.php?u=778595
:lol:


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

MarkWass said:


> This is total guesswork, but it crossed my mind the other day... I wonder if the reason why RERA have not 'cancelled' projects, as one might have thought is perhaps they have found that they currently actually do not have the full legal power to do so?
> 
> And I wonder if this new investor protection law that the media have reported that is in the pipeline (apparently)... Is to create mechanisms to give the regulators more control?
> 
> Do any of the Dubai based property gurus know if this could be the case, or is my imagination just getting the better of me?


Or RERA has possibly completly missmanaged the secrow account law and and many of the escrow accounts will be found to be depleted or non existent ?

I bet a few people over at RERA are squirming in their seats....


----------



## Freestyler

MarkWass said:


> http://www.acronymfinder.com/IMOP.html
> 
> :lol:


IMOP - Intentional Modulation on Pulse
or
IMOP - Infantry Mortar Program

^^ good candidates :lol:


----------



## micmonro1

*ready for legal action*
Attention Everyone,

For those who are serious about taking legal action and willing to commit financially, please PM me your contact details. 

*I am ready to begin legal action against SG.*

Please don't contact me just to obtain information, I only require people who have decided to pursue legal action. 

I have a legal background and I am only too happy to help those who require it.


----------



## Towers3

micmonro1 said:


> *ready for legal action*
> Attention Everyone,
> 
> For those who are serious about taking legal action and willing to commit financially, please PM me your contact details.
> 
> *I am ready to begin legal action against SG.*
> 
> Please don't contact me just to obtain information, I only require people who have decided to pursue legal action.
> 
> I have a legal background and I am only too happy to help those who require it.


Good luck if you can let us know if you have any success though please. Will help other cases and yours.


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Damac Properties must pay Dh1.8m after failing to finish apartment*



> Asa Fitch | June 27, 2011
> 
> An Irish couple has won a Dh1.8 million payout from Damac Properties after the developer failed to finish their apartment on time.
> 
> The Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC) Courts have affirmed an earlier decision to issue the couple a refund in a ruling that could have implications for other property companies within the DIFC, the financial free zone where the courts have jurisdiction.


http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-...-pay-dh1-8m-after-failing-to-finish-apartment


----------



## Face81

*Knight Frank Global House Price Index, Q1 2011 results*

Date : 17 June 2011 
Knight Frank Global House Price Index, Q1 2011 results
Key findings:

Global house prices increased by only 1.8% in the year to March, the lowest annual rate of growth recorded since Q4 2009 

House prices in 25 of the 50 countries included in the index remained flat or saw negative growth in the first three months of 2011, compared to only 18 countries a year earlier 

In regional terms, Asia remains the top-performing continent, recording 8.4% growth over the last 12 months. However, this is down from 17.8% a year earlier 

The weakest region was North America which saw a fall of 0.4% in values in the year to Q1 2011 

While house prices in Europe were static in Q1, this represents an improvement on 12 months earlier when house prices on average had fallen 4.1% in the preceding 12 months 

The strongest performing countries were: Hong Kong (24.2%), where the government is fighting to pull inflationary pressures under control; India (21.9%) and Taiwan (14.3%) 

Liam Bailey, Head of Residential Research at Knight Frank, comments: “Price growth, while not stalling, has faltered in Q1 2011, pointing to ongoing problems underlying the world’s housing markets. In Q4 2010 overall annual price growth stood at 3.3%. Three months later this shrank to 1.8%.

“A cursory glance at the results table would suggest it’s business as normal, with Asian countries firmly implanted at the top of the table and both Europe and North America languishing behind. But there are a few less predictable results.

“House prices in Russia, for example, fell 13.7% in the first three months of this year positioning it below Ireland in the rankings. On the other hand, France has jumped to 6th place in the rankings, up from 30th a year earlier. Sweden and Germany, by comparison, have experienced several quarters of positive growth only to fall back in Q1 2011. In most of these cases, with the notable exception of Germany, the housing market is reflecting the wider economy’s performance as well as responding to domestic policy decisions.

“In Russia the Government’s mass affordable housing programme is boosting supply and lowering the average prices throughout the country, despite the average price growing in Moscow and Saint Petersburg. House prices in France look to be mirroring the country’s improving economic scenario; GDP increased by 1.0% in Q1 2011, its highest quarterly rise since Q2 2006. Greater productivity is impacting on wages, consumer spending is up and likewise property demand.

"Globally, the slowdown in annual price growth to 1.8% is largely attributable to the poor performance in the first three months of this year. In Q1 2011, 50% of countries saw flat or negative growth; a year earlier this applied to only 38% of countries included within the index.

“The efforts on the part of Asian governments to cool house price inflation in the past year have been largely successful, although the latest figures suggest Hong Kong’s housing market is proving less responsive. In Q1 2010 annual inflation stood at 30.4%; this fell to 25.0% in Q2 2010 and 22.1% in Q4 2010 but has now rebounded to 24.2%. Demand from mainland China is a key driver – accounting for nearly one in four Hong Kong property purchases. The Chinese market by comparison has seen annual price growth fall from 49% in Q1 2010 to a more sustainable 8.4%.

“Additional measures are being adopted by the Hong Kong government to curb inflation by launching a new mortgage database. Banks may refuse mortgage applications, lower loan-to-value ratios or offer higher mortgage rates if applicants do not share their mortgage data. Such a move is expected to further suppress speculative activity, as speculators tend not to disclose their mortgage histories as it can limit their ability to own multiple flats.

“Back in Europe, the PIGS economies (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain) are displaying a mixed picture. Spain is still struggling with a significant fall of 2.5% in the last quarter, although this poor performance is overshadowed by Ireland’s 4.5% decline over the same period. Interestingly, Greece and Portugal are showing signs of improvement with prices rising in the last quarter, which is surprising given their economic backdrop.

*“The Middle East provides an improving picture. Dubai has seen price growth regain positive territory in the last six months and the consensus is that the market is stabilising following the volatility observed in 2008-2010.*

“Israel has consistently been positioned within the top 5-10 rankings in our results table over the past two years. In November 2010, the IMF warned that house prices in Israel were rising unsustainably, with broader risks to the economy. Efforts to curtail inflation resulted in five interest rate rises in the year to March 2011. These efforts seem to have been successful, with Israel recording 1.1% growth in the last quarter, compared with 12.1% annually. 

*Outlook*
“While many housing market experts consider the US to represent the greatest risk to the stability of global housing markets, our view is that Asia still poses something of a threat. There is still a potential in China, Taiwan and in Hong Kong (as highlighted above) for their housing markets to become overheated and bubbles to appear once more, if government intervention proves insufficient.

“In summary we expect to see the current slowdown in global housing markets to continue, hitting a low point in Q4 2011 - assuming the Asian markets continue to cool and the government intervention is successful - but with a slow recovery in global house prices taking place in 2012.”











http://www.knightfrank.com/news/Knight-Frank-Global-House-Price-Index-Q1-2011-results-0642.aspx


----------



## mfkoverseas

FINALLY THE RESCHEDULED PAYMENT PLAN AND EXPECTED HANDOVER DATES FOR AL FURJAN VILLAS ARE ANNOUNCED. NEXT PAYMENT IN SEPT 2011 AND 15% UPON HANDOVER HOPEFULLY MAY 2012


----------



## VCollaborator

*UAE approves three-year investor visa*



> *by WAM, published on June 28, 2011*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Image Credit: Silvia Baron/ANM*
> Real estate investors can now get a three-year investor visa. Picture for illustrative purposes only._
> 
> 
> Abu Dhabi: The Cabinet on Tuesday approved that investor visa given for expats businessmen investing in the real estate sector will be three years, instead of six months.
> 
> The move was taken during a Cabinet meeting chaired by His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai.
> 
> The Cabinet also approved Emarat’s capital be raised from Dh6 billion to Dh9 billion.
> 
> It allocated an amount of Dh1.3 billion from the 2011 budget for the Zayed Housing Programme.
> 
> The Cabinet approved an additional allocation of Dh540 million to be added to the Federal budget, out of which Dh105 million will be allocated to the Ministry of Health, and Dh 150 million to finance federal universities and help them increase their student capacity.
> 
> Shaikh Mansour Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Presidential Affairs, and Lieutenant General Shaikh Saif Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Interior, were also present.


http://gulfnews.com/sport/cricket/uae-approves-three-year-investor-visa-1.829266


----------



## agod

Its what we have been pushing for, but can you trust them not to recind it at a whim.

Al


----------



## True Blue

^^Wait for the cost to be published, remember Dubai is cash strapped. Expect prices of around AED20,000 for this 3 year visa.

The other issue is the investor visa was previously linked to properties which cost AED1Million or more. I have 2 properties and they were both less than 1M although at least 1 is now worth more, where does that leave people like me?

It is good news though and this is definately the time to buy property!


----------



## agod

it sounds like the 6 month one, but extended, so 10 grand a month income, Medical Cover, and perhaps a deposit in the Bank, it might even be cheaper than the Virtual Office set up, let hope they are sensible with this, and you should see the market return.


----------



## Josau

This is a step in the right direction, but we need to know all the conditions linked to this 3 years' visa.


----------



## noir-dresses

Business man investor visa linked to property ????????? Meaning, explanation ????

What does this have to do with the majority of people who just have a holiday home, and want a normal multiple entry visa into the country for at least three, to ten years.

Common sense still lacking.

Looks like they want the flippers again, but the serious end user is screwed as usual.


----------



## Richard Head

Well, this is what we have all been asking for. Let's keep a positive outlook until we get details. Even if TB and agod are right, its a grand a year, sterling. If that's the worse case scenario, I think it's still good enough to make a real difference to the Real Estate situation. Obviously the more strings attached the lesser the impact will be, let's see.

Anyone know, since it mentions Abu Dhabi and "the cabinet", does this mean it's federal?


----------



## Face81

^^ Yep, that's what the article suggests......


----------



## Wac

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/housing-property/uae-approves-three-year-investor-visa-1.829266


----------



## AppleMac

agod said:


> Its what we have been pushing for, but can you trust them not to recind it at a whim.


I doubt that anyone would trust them for an awful long time hno:


----------



## Saint_

True Blue said:


> It is good news though and this is definately the time to buy property!



It'll take a lot more than this to restore my faith. 

A fully remediated legal system and regulated property industry (to protect investors and stamp out cheating developers) would be a welcomed start.


----------



## MarkWass

Saint_ said:


> A fully remediated legal system and regulated property industry (to protect investors and stamp out cheating developers) would be a welcomed start.


:lol::dizzy::rofl::hahaha::yes::hilarious


----------



## Philippa C

Even if it costs 20K, like another poster said, it will be cheaper than going the "freezone company" route. Some of the freezones are now asking people to rent their offices instead of having a virtual office which makes this option too expensive.

Let's see the fine print. There are a lot of people within a few hours flying time of Dubai who'd be happy to have a safe and semi-permanent base in Dubai. 

I found it interesting that a Bahrani friend's Dad who has a lot of property in Bahrain is now starting to buy property in Dubai....


----------



## Constantinos

Vak said:


> If anyone interested to sell individual unit or full floor or building pls PM me, i am interested to purchase.
> 
> Thanks


Hi Vak,

I have a 2 bedroom unit 1100sqmt on R005 and I am willing to trasnfer the remaining morgage if your interested. No payment involved. No installments untill delivery.

Thanks


----------



## Beppe786

its changed 


http://gulfnews.com/sport/cricket/r...-get-three-year-multiple-entry-visas-1.829266

Dubai: Foreigners investing in UAE real estate will get a three-year multiple entry visit visa, according to a Cabinet decision Tuesday.

The Cabinet also increased the capital of Emirates Petroleum Corporation, or Emarat, by 50 per cent to Dh9 billion, allowing the retailer to obtain more bank loans.

The decision comes against the backdrop of fuel shortages hounding residents across the northern emirates.

At the meeting, chaired by His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, the Cabinet also allocated Dh1.3 billion from the 2011 budget for the Zayed Housing Programme and approved an additional Dh540 million to be added to the federal budget.




Health and education

Dh105 million of this amount will be given to the Ministry of Health and Dh150 million will be used to finance federal universities and help them increase their student capacity.

Analysts have hailed the decision to increase the duration of the entry visas for foreigners investing in UAE property from six months to three years.

Many analysts see the decision as a shot in the arm for the UAE’s real estate industry. 
Craig Plumb, Director of Reseach at Jones Lang Lasalle, told Gulf News: “It is a very good decision because it clarifies the vague areas to real estate investors.”

Sultan Butti Bin Mej-ren, Director-General of the Dubai Land Department, said that the decision would have a major impact on the real estate market.

“I expect a 20 per cent increase in the demand to buy property in the UAE. However, it will not lead to a rise in real estate prices,” he said.

“This is the right decision at the right time,” he added.


----------



## rjd

*Twin towers*

recently had email from rafiullah from rufi stating that the project will be complete on or as soon as december 2012.

Same Story as always and they just give out random dates. However due to new laws coming into force in Dubai i do believe they will have to complete the project otherwise under new laws coming into force will mean developers will have to give a full refund if not complete.

The excuse of force majore is utter rubbish as a global downturn in the property market is human responsibility not an act of nature, God,or war!!!!

Does anyone visit Rufi at all as im not in Dubai till the end of the year so cant meet them face to face.


----------



## Cayman

Any idea how the property value is calculated for the purpose of AED 1M threshold?

Is it the value written in the contract when the propoerty was purchsed from the developer, or the current market value? If they consider the pre-market crash value I would assume about 80% of the properties in Dubai would qualify.


----------



## bizzybonita

Great news and it's for the whole U.A.E :banana:

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...erty-investors-to-3-years-2011-06-28-1.405045


----------



## Richard Head

Beppe786 said:


> “I expect a 20 per cent increase in the demand to buy property in the UAE. However, it will not lead to a rise in real estate prices,” he said.


Isn't it refreshing to know that the director general of the land department proudly advertises the fact that he can't grasp the most basic fundamental principle of supply and demand economics that the rest of us learned when we were 12 years old? hno:


----------



## Hanna

*3 Visa aye right !*

Hi

I would wait till the details are out before everyone rejoices,I think the majority will still not be able to obtain a 3 years property visa because 
of the 1 million Dhms rule will still be in place maybe higher this time around.

The bottom line is they don't want anyone with a 200,000 to 300,000 studio getting 3 year visa's let's be truthfull about it.

Another thing can you trust them not to change the rules again once
they have got another load of suckers in for the second time a round,
you know what they say about fools and there money.

The way things are looking with Greece ready to collapse and the Euro
countries with big Banks debts what sensible person would buy anything 
at the moment.

Double dip hear we come sometime very soon !

The above is only my humble opinion :cheers:


----------



## Hanna

*3 year visa aye right !*

Hi

I would wait till the details are out before everyone rejoices,I think the majority will still not be able to obtain a 3 years property visa because 
of the 1 million Dhms rule will still be in place maybe higher this time around.
Property will be based on real time price guide i.e what you would get at 
todays market price.

The bottom line is they don't want anyone with a 200,000 to 300,000 studio getting 3 year visa's let's be truthfull about it.

Another thing can you trust them not to change the rules again once
they have got another load of suckers in for the second time a round,
you know what they say about fools and there money.

The way things are looking with Greece ready to collapse and the Euro
countries with big Banks debts what sensible person would buy anything 
at the moment.

Double dip hear we come sometime very soon !

The above is only my humble opinion :cheers:[/QUOTE]


----------



## Hanna

*New visa rules may not be enough to absorb oversupply*

The UAE federal government’s decision to extend visas for real estate investors from six months to three years will boost demand for property but is unlikely to cover the massive oversupply that still exists in the market, analysts told Arabian Business.

According to a report on newswire WAM, the decision was taken during a cabinet meeting on Tuesday chaired by vice president and prime minister of the UAE and ruler of Dubai HH Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum.

The move has been universally welcomed by the industry as a positive move for the beleaguered real estate sector.

“We believe this could significantly boost demand in the UAE’s residential real estate sector, particularly in Dubai, as the promise of a long-term residency visa was a major driver of second-home purchases during the real estate boom prior to mid-2008,” said Farouk Soussa, a Dubai-based economic analyst at Citigroup.

The real estate sector in Dubai was one of the biggest markets bit by the global financial crisis and impact of the credit crunch and lack of finance led to property prices tumbling by up to 60 percent and nearly half of projects being canceled or stalled.

The slowdown also led to a major oversupply problem in the emirate as demand dried up. A report by Jones Lang LaSalle estimated over 50,000 new residential units will be completed in Dubai between now and the end of 2013, raising the current stock of homes by some 15 percent.

According to Soussa , the industry needs to be realistic about the impact the new visa rule will have as the “overall impact on the property market will likely be somewhat muted by oversupply issues that are being exacerbated by the ongoing completion of new properties.”

At the height of the real estate crisis, confusion over the visa regulations for non-residents led to Federal authorities announcing in mid-2009 that real estate investor visas were only for six months, which had to renewed at a cost of around AED2,000 ($544).

The u-turn by authorities has been welcomed by real estate agents, with Richard Paul, head of residential valuations at the Cluttons agency describing the move as “all good news.”

“It was a learning curve reducing it to six months and everyone disagreed with that and they have now reverted back to the three years... Talking to banks and clients it was something that needed to be done.

“If you are trying to market your property market as an international hub for investors you have to make it as easy as possible from them and that wasn’t the case with the reverting to six months,” Paul said.

Continued on next page...






Read All 7 Comments Posted by: tajir 
Wednesday, 29 June 2011 6:44 PM[UAE] - UAE 
This is to little to late , there are so many issues with property and laws associated that any rational investor will think twice . 
There is so much indirect taxation and service charges on the property that it makes no sense to buy . 
Investors have been bitten hard and if the prices rise even a little this would be actually a selling opurtunity . 

The Law makers need to look from the investor prespective which a simple 3 year visa does not address. 
Reply to this comment.
Posted by: Jonathan 
Wednesday, 29 June 2011 4:12 PM[UAE] - UAE 
and what if this much trumpeted 3 year visa comes at a cost of AED 12,000 ? Is that great news?? 

Wait till you read the details before announcing the revival of the property market! 
Reply to this comment.
Posted by: Tomson 
Wednesday, 29 June 2011 4:12 PM[UAE] - India 
Lot of the flats are priced less than AED 1 milllion. So how it will help to boost the investment. Government has to remove the restrictions like the value of the property to AED 1 million and AED 10,000 monthly income. How can a retired person who has an apartment valued less than 1 million can consider the Dubai home as a second home or a holiday hut. Every investor in the property sector should get the residence visa. That was the selling point advertised during the peak time. 
Reply to this comment.
Posted by: Jerry Parks 
Wednesday, 29 June 2011 2:34 PM[UAE] - UAE 
Many questions arise out of this development. Will the visa be a multiple entry visit visa or a full residency visa, will the AED 1m threshold still apply, and if so, what yardstick of valuation will be applied, will the AED 10k minimum income still need to be proved, what about jointly and company owned properties etc etc. The devil will, as ever, be in the detail..... 

Posted by: Manish 
Wednesday, 29 June 2011 6:46 PM[UAE] - Qatar 
Jerry, the 6 month visa was called Property Investor Visa, which was akin to a multi entry visit visa. It did not give any privilege apart from multi entry. You could not get a credit card, cheque book, get your shipment from other country. If you are moving from another country and shipping in your household goods, you need a Residency visa! And if you a family.....the 6 month visa was costing 1k for NOC from Sponsoring developer, and 2300 for each family member! 

Posted by: Jonathan 
Wednesday, 29 June 2011 4:12 PM[UAE] - UAE 
Exactly Jerry, 

As you said "the devil is in the detail...." and we all know how the details turn out to be surprisingly different from the headline ;-) 

Posted by: disturbed of dubai 
Wednesday, 29 June 2011 4:10 PM[UAE] - United Arab Emirates 
agree completely. its easy to say the visa will be valid for 3 years but what are the terms of the visa? We have been led into a false sense of security so many times before that we need complete transparency on all the pro's and cons before we commit again. 


:cheers:


----------



## True Blue

^^I don't see the link with property prices in Dubai dipping and the collapse of Greece?

Greece will be as crime ridden as Spain soon, with all the poverty and lawlessness that is growing there. Would you buy in Greece? Me, hno:


----------



## True Blue

Saint_ said:


> It'll take a lot more than this to restore my faith.
> 
> A fully remediated legal system and regulated property industry (to protect investors and stamp out cheating developers) would be a welcomed start.


If I'm right, you are assuming I included off plan property in my conclusion. I didn't!

The developers reputation is practically irrelevant for a property that is out of its 1 year warranty.


----------



## Saint_

True Blue said:


> ^^
> 
> It is good news though and this is definately the time to buy property!


No offence but I just disagree with your prediction of now being the time to buy based on rumours of a new visa - off plan or not. 

Anyone acting based on rumours would be doing so prematurely IMO - particularly with this Government's track record when it comes to promises of new visas.

Even if the new visa does happen, I don't see how it alone will dramatically correct oversupply. Anyone doing proper due dilligence will see that service charges are on the rise and the legal system in general (not just in relation to developers) is totally unreliable. 

If you beg to differ then no problem - we're all entitled to an opinion. I just know it'll take more than a new visa before I consider investing here again.


----------



## HappyLarry

It is understandable that those who have suffered the downturn in property investment remain skeptical with the new visa law.
But let's look at it from another angle i.e. the worried rich middle class across the Middle East. These people will have got the news already and would wish to make longer term plans to migrate to Dubai/UAE. IMHO just this factor alone will be a big plus for demand. 
If we now look at the dire straights Europeans are in, with huge taxation and falling living standards. Northern Europeans are seeing their hard earned capital diminshing in value day by day. Those who know will confirm that Dubai's taxation is nothing compared to European taxation laws.
Anyway, I don't have long term figures on supply but if only 10,000 units are coming onto the market in 2011 then that will surely create pressure on demand and prices should move higher.
A good sign will be if such pressure manifests in 10%-15% rise in rents. 

I think this is a very good time to buy or hold.


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> If I'm right, you are assuming I included off plan property in my conclusion. I didn't!


TB, you seem to disregard off plan? As an *investor* in the Dubai market who is not ‘currently’ involved in off plan, or waiting for your contractually agreed purchase to manifest itself, as you are, you seem to be in the minority..

As said previously, although you may have done well, due to the timing of your investments, whether that was due to great skill and foresight or random luck, I will not comment, but in order to have a sustainable market place, media bs and hype is no longer needed in this market, but consumer protection and regulation is. Do you not agree?


----------



## MarkWass

MarkWass said:


> TB, you seem to disregard off plan? As an *investor* in the Dubai market who is not ‘currently’ involved in off plan, or waiting for your contractually agreed purchase to manifest itself, as you are, you seem to be in the minority..
> 
> As said previously, although you may have done well, due to the timing of your investments, whether that was due to great skill and foresight or random luck, I will not comment, but in order to have a sustainable market place, media bs and hype is no longer needed in this market, but consumer protection and regulation is. Do you not agree?


Pa. the visa thing: too little, too late....


----------



## MarkWass

Pps


MarkWass said:


> TB, you seem to disregard off plan? As an *investor* in the Dubai market who is not ‘currently’ involved in off plan, or waiting for your contractually agreed purchase to manifest itself, as you are *NOT*, you seem to be in the minority..
> 
> As said previously, although you may have done well, due to the timing of your investments, whether that was due to great skill and foresight or random luck, I will not comment, but in order to have a sustainable market place, media bs and hype is no longer needed in this market, but consumer protection and regulation is. Do you not agree?


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> TB, you seem to disregard off plan? As an *investor* in the Dubai market who is not ‘currently’ involved in off plan, or waiting for your contractually agreed purchase to manifest itself, as you are, you seem to be in the minority..
> 
> As said previously, although you may have done well, due to the timing of your investments, whether that was due to great skill and foresight or random luck, I will not comment, but in order to have a sustainable market place, media bs and hype is no longer needed in this market, but consumer protection and regulation is. Do you not agree?





MarkWass said:


> Pa. the visa thing: too little, too late....





MarkWass said:


> Pps


Why do you always have a go at me every time I state my opinion that off plans are not classed as tangible property assets? It's a fact, when we refer to residential property we are restricting that definition to something you can live in today. Not a piece of paper that relates to something that will be built at some time in the future. Property visas will only be issued to completed properties, and that is the subject matter of my comment. So your comment of "too little too late" is irrelevant in relation to making a difference to the off plan problem.

Consumer protection will have little to do with buying a completed unit, it only applies to people who bought promises that were not delivered(off plans again). 

I don't think I am in the minority by owning only completed units. Anyone who bought Emaar units or JBR units in the marina is in the same boat as me and that must be a considerable amount of people.


----------



## True Blue

Saint_ said:


> No offence but I just disagree with your prediction of now being the time to buy based on rumours of a new visa - off plan or not.
> 
> Anyone acting based on rumours would be doing so prematurely IMO - particularly with this Government's track record when it comes to promises of new visas.
> 
> Even if the new visa does happen, I don't see how it alone will dramatically correct oversupply. Anyone doing proper due dilligence will see that service charges are on the rise and the legal system in general (not just in relation to developers) is totally unreliable.
> 
> If you beg to differ then no problem - we're all entitled to an opinion. I just know it'll take more than a new visa before I consider investing here again.


There is an old saying;

"Be cautious when others are buying and buy when the masses are being cautious"

Banks are starting to ease up credit now. The age old problem of the lack of property visas looks to be resolved and there is lots of unrest in the world. Sounds to me that Dubai could become attractive again.

As for oversupply, there are no new Palm villas or apartments coming. There is very little exclusive high end marina apartments coming or Old Town properties on the horizon. Do you get my point? Yes lots of Business Bay,Jumeirah Village or Sports city still to come but who wants them?

The market for property in Dubai is a maturing one now so no one is interested in Dubailand or Snowdomes or revolving towers or towers designed on Ipods. They want established reputable completed units in good locations in completed communities with established infrastructure and *these exist in finite numbers only*.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Cayman said:


> Any idea how the property value is calculated for the purpose of AED 1M threshold?
> 
> Is it the value written in the contract when the propoerty was purchsed from the developer, or the current market value? If they consider the pre-market crash value I would assume about 80% of the properties in Dubai would qualify.


I think it is the value written on the contract in the case of off-plan. Not sure what is the case for those handed over.


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> Why do you always have a go at me every time I state my opinion


Scotty, I did not think I had ever had a go at you previously? Have I?
On that note, if someone believes in something and wants to exert that view on a public forum, why hide behind a username? My username is my full name, and I have nothing to hide.



True Blue said:


> off plans are not classed as tangible property assets


Yes, clearly, in a REGULAR market..in terms of tangibility, uncompleted units or ‘plans’ do not quite meet the criteria, I agree with you. However, when discussing this particular market place and dymamics, off plan IS the major sector, so it cannot be excluded.




True Blue;80556404I said:


> don't think I am in the minority by owning only completed units.


Not only are you in the ‘minority’ but in terms of investors in the Dubai market, your lot’s ‘number ‘ is so comparatively low (as said b4, whether due to skill or ‘luck’), that sorry but your lot are almost insignificant in terms of market dynamics with the Dubai property crisis..



True Blue said:


> Consumer protection will have little to do with buying a completed unit, it only applies to people who bought promises that were not delivered(off plans again).


Consumer protection has *everything* to do with *everything.* It is something that is taken for a given in yours and others ‘civilized’ societies..


----------



## Cayman

Dubai_Steve said:


> I think it is the value written on the contract in the case of off-plan. Not sure what is the case for those handed over.


Thanks Steve.


----------



## agod

Why dont they introduce a points system, something like a credit score, when you obtain the required points you get the visa.

it could be for example, for every 100000 invested in Ajman, gets you 10 points, while 100000 invested in the Marina gets you 5 points, that would get the not so popular Emirates a kick start, and be a fairer way of doing it, other considerations are, Medical Cover, Nationality, Assets Worlwide, and income from them, family Visa's, Etc, as long as there is no age limit, and the promise that it will be honoured, and not taken away once granted.

Al.


----------



## Hanna

*Advert from Dubai luxury homes yesterday*

Three Year Residency Visa on Property Purchases Back!!!

3 year residency visa approved on all property purchases over AED 1 million



The UAE government on Tuesday extended the visa period of property owners to three years from six months in a decisive move to re-ignite investor confidence and prop up the real estate sector.

The decision, part of a raft of measures taken by the government to underpin economic growth as per the strategic plan 2011-2013, was taken at a Cabinet meeting in Abu Dhabi on Tuesday chaired by His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai. The landmark decision - eagerly awaited for quite some time - was hailed by developers and investors as a vital stimulus to the once buoyant property sector, which has been flagging in the aftermath of a global and regional downturn.

Many analysts see the decision as a shot in the arm for the UAE’s real estate industry. Sultan Butti Bin Mejren, Director-General of the Dubai Land Department, said that the decision would have a major impact on the real estate market. "I expect a 20 per cent increase in the demand to buy property in the UAE," he said. "This is the right decision at the right time," he added.

Under the existing law, foreign owners of property worth more than AED 1 million are eligible to get only a six-month visa, which had to be reviewed every six months for AED 2,120 at a time. The applicant for the property investor residence visa also needs to open a bank account locally or aboard and is required to provide proof of a minimum monthly income of AED 10,000. The investor shall also get a medical insurance renewable every six months, apart from a valid medical fitness test every two years.



Doesn't take the estate agents long does it ! the ink isn't dry yet and no
one knows any details of the small print of the new law.


John Davis, CEO Middle East of real estate consultancy Colliers International welcomed the move and said it “will certainly have a positive effect on the market” but some investors will take a wait-and-see approach as to what the terms of the new regulations will entail.

“Several investors were historically promised “foreign investor status” type visas which didn’t materialise,” he said, adding some investors will be cautious to see what the terms of the regulations will be.

One drawback is the current visa rules are only open to investors with a property valued at over AED1m ($272,257). Davis said it will be interesting to watch whether this minimum figure will be revised.

Once the full terms and conditions are announced, Thomas Bunker, an investment sales consultant at real estate agency Better Homes added it will be vital to know if there are any restrictions on some nationalities availing of the new three-year residency visa or whether the rule will be widespread.

“I must add that this new visa term may not be as significant as the market hopes if it does not extend to all of the nationals who in the past have shown a strong interest in the UAE market. If the visa rules do not apply equally to all nationals, the effect of the new visa term will be lessened,” observed Bunker.

While the change in visa regulations is unlikely to have any immediate impact on prices, Jesse Downs, director of management consulting at Jones Lang LaSalle, said it would help to reinforce Dubai and UAE’s image as a safe haven for international investors.

“This is definitely positive news because this will help to restore market confidence… When combined with the regional events surrounding the Arab Spring, this solidifies the UAE’s position as a business and investment hub in the region.”

















:cheers:


----------



## pisandre

rjd said:


> recently had email from rafiullah from rufi stating that the project will be complete on or as soon as december 2012.
> 
> Same Story as always and they just give out random dates. However due to new laws coming into force in Dubai i do believe they will have to complete the project otherwise under new laws coming into force will mean developers will have to give a full refund if not complete.
> 
> The excuse of force majore is utter rubbish as a global downturn in the property market is human responsibility not an act of nature, God,or war!!!!
> 
> Does anyone visit Rufi at all as im not in Dubai till the end of the year so cant meet them face to face.



Bro, even if their projects are cancelled, they won't have the funds to pay back the investors. They don't risk much and they know it.

I plan to pay them a visit in the coming weeks. Just to laugh at them and listening at their rubbish again. Why not? I paid a lot of money for nothing so far. I have the right to be entertained, right?


----------



## Saint_

True Blue said:


> There is an old saying;
> 
> "Be cautious when others are buying and buy when the masses are being cautious"
> 
> Banks are starting to ease up credit now. The age old problem of the lack of property visas looks to be resolved and there is lots of unrest in the world. Sounds to me that Dubai could become attractive again.
> 
> As for oversupply, there are no new Palm villas or apartments coming. There is very little exclusive high end marina apartments coming or Old Town properties on the horizon. Do you get my point? Yes lots of Business Bay,Jumeirah Village or Sports city still to come but who wants them?
> 
> The market for property in Dubai is a maturing one now so no one is interested in Dubailand or Snowdomes or revolving towers or towers designed on Ipods. They want established reputable completed units in good locations in completed communities with established infrastructure and *these exist in finite numbers only*.


If you believe that now is the time to buy in Dubai then good luck to you. 

I look at investment opportunities the world over and take into account market forces as well as many other factors. At this moment in time, I see more attractive and safer opportunities elsewhere. Maybe in time my view will change but good luck to you if you think now is the time to buy.


----------



## MarkWass

MarkWass said:


> Not only are you in the ‘minority’


Perhaps I didn’t write that bit very well. Clearly, completed units (and their owners) are the vast majority in numerical terms. But in terms of the future, establishing a safe and potentially attractive market place, in the ‘eyes of the world’, I would have thought that how the stagnated off plan development pipeline is dealt with is the major factor and critical?


----------



## vaksa

“I expect a 20 per cent increase in the demand to buy property in the UAE. However, it will not lead to a rise in real estate prices,” he said.



Richard Head said:


> Isn't it refreshing to know that the director general of the land department proudly advertises the fact that he can't grasp the most basic fundamental principle of supply and demand economics that the rest of us learned when we were 12 years old? hno:


If he meant that prices won’t go down as much as they would have without the 3-year visa, then there’s nothing wrong with the statement.


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> True Blue, I did not think I had ever had a go at you previously? Have I?
> On that note, if someone believes in something and wants to exert that view on a public forum, why hide behind a username? My username is my full name, and I have nothing to hide.
> 
> 
> Yes, clearly, in a REGULAR market..in terms of tangibility, uncompleted units or ‘plans’ do not quite meet the criteria, I agree with you. However, when discussing this particular market place and dymamics, off plan IS the major sector, so it cannot be excluded.
> 
> 
> 
> Not only are you in the ‘minority’ but in terms of investors in the Dubai market, your lot’s ‘number ‘ is so comparatively low (as said b4, whether due to skill or ‘luck’), that sorry but your lot are almost insignificant in terms of market dynamics with the Dubai property crisis..
> 
> 
> Consumer protection has *everything* to do with *everything.* It is something that is taken for a given in yours and others ‘civilized’ societies..


I don't think me and you are going to agree on the fundamental points of off plan versus completed markets being totally different markets.

As for your point regarding me hiding behind a forum name, I take it you have not been threatened both legally and in other ways for expressing your valid views? Its bad enough for me having my pm inbox inundated with fumers regularly, can you imagine what it would be like if they knew where you lived? Cars getting keyed, tyres slashed etc. Forums are full of unstable idiots! Nothing personal intended or inferred!


----------



## Freestyler

Saint_ said:


> No offence but I just disagree with your prediction of now being the time to buy based on rumours of a new visa - off plan or not.


These are not rumors, federal govt as announced to extend 6 months visa to 3 years.

In the boom time govt didn't announce visa on property it was the developers who were offering visa on investment basis. If you go through news in 2008 govt made out notices time to time to tell people there is no visa from the govt on property.


----------



## Freestyler

Saint_ said:


> At this moment in time, I see more attractive and safer opportunities elsewhere.


If you looking at from value investment, Dubai and Abu Dhabi properties are one of the best in the world for properties in good location and built. As for safer, it depends on the perception of the investor. Many people I know weren't investing in Dubai properties in 2003/2004 because they thought it is not safe; but same people bought floors in 2008 because they thought it is safe to buy. Experienced investors don't buy when price goes above twice the standard deviation from the mean.


----------



## Richard Head

True Blue said:


> There is an old saying;
> 
> "Be cautious when others are buying and buy when the masses are being cautious"
> 
> Banks are starting to ease up credit now. The age old problem of the lack of property visas looks to be resolved and there is lots of unrest in the world. Sounds to me that Dubai could become attractive again.
> 
> As for oversupply, there are no new Palm villas or apartments coming. There is very little exclusive high end marina apartments coming or Old Town properties on the horizon. Do you get my point? Yes lots of Business Bay,Jumeirah Village or Sports city still to come but who wants them?
> 
> The market for property in Dubai is a maturing one now so no one is interested in Dubailand or Snowdomes or revolving towers or towers designed on Ipods. They want established reputable completed units in good locations in completed communities with established infrastructure and *these exist in finite numbers only*.


+1 :cheers:

I think TB's assessment is absolutely bang on the money. And I think that if the details regarding the 3 year visa are solid without any hidden risks / high costs, then completed property in mature sought-after developments such as PJ, Arabian Ranches, Marina etc. will see a significant rally in prices (which seems to have already started anyway before this announcement). Timing is perfect.


----------



## Saint_

Freestyler said:


> If you looking at from value investment, Dubai and Abu Dhabi properties are one of the best in the world for properties in good location and built. As for safer, it depends on the perception of the investor. Many people I know weren't investing in Dubai properties in 2003/2004 because they thought it is not safe; but same people bought floors in 2008 because they thought it is safe to buy. Experienced investors don't buy when price goes above twice the standard deviation from the mean.


As I said good luck to those who choose to invest, I mean that genuinely.

I will only invest in countries that have a sound legal system where decisions aren't made based on 'who you know'. If I did decide to invest in such a country, the returns had better be pretty damned spectacular and I just see better options elsewhere.


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> I don't think me and you are going to agree on the fundamental points of off plan versus completed markets being totally different markets.
> 
> As for your point regarding me hiding behind a forum name, I take it you have not been threatened both legally and in other ways for expressing your valid views? Its bad enough for me having my pm inbox inundated with fumers regularly, can you imagine what it would be like if they knew where you lived? Cars getting keyed, tyres slashed etc. Forums are full of unstable idiots! Nothing personal intended or inferred!


TB, yes you make a valid point that forums are often unstable. And it was perhaps me that was naive for not choosing a forum name to hide behind. When I joined SSC a couple of years back, I had never used web forums before, so had no idea what to expect, but now with a bit more experience…

Anyway, of course, in theory off plan v existing real estate markets are different, particularly in ‘older’ locations, where a ‘relatively’ small development pipeline often has little bearing on the whole market. I totally agree. However in this particular case, there are some factors that relate to buyer’s (be that owner occupiers or investors) perception of the security within the whole market, and help not to restrict potential growth to both, such as perceived regulation and consumer protection.


----------



## Imre

Freestyler said:


> These are not rumors, federal govt as announced to extend 6 months visa to 3 years.


Waiting for more details of this, some article says its a residence visa , others said its an extended visit visa , there is a big difference , with visit visa you cant buy car , get a current account with cheque book etc..

Purchase price should be miniumum 1 million dhs and you need at least 10000 dhs monthly income , like before ?

This visa guaranteed for all nationalities without any problems and limitation? I doubt..


----------



## Freestyler

Imre said:


> Waiting for more details of this, some article says its a residence visa , others said its an extended visit visa , there is a big difference , with visit visa you cant buy car , get a current account with cheque book etc..
> 
> Purchase price should be miniumum 1 million dhs and you need at least 10000 dhs monthly income , like before ?
> 
> This visa guaranteed for all nationalities without any problems and limitation? I doubt..


As far as I know it is the 6month visa on property changed to 3 years. So everything is same as it was for 6 months visa on property earlier, except it is now 3 years. More details will come. If 6 months was visit visa then it is visit, if it was residential then it is residential. 

But 3 years visit visa doesn't make sense so most likely it will be 3 years residential. But all rules may or not be same as 3 years residential visa on employment. But I think buying a car and bank account will be included. 

But it may take sometime with property based visa because somethings have to be worked out for this one. For example, at the moment for bank account, sponsor is responsible if something goes wrong. With sponsor out of the picture, bank have to seek other method(s) for securing themselves. With property it is not difficult, since property can be used for securing. But how they will do it exactly it may take sometime work it out.


----------



## Imre

Freestyler said:


> But 3 years visit visa doesn't make sense so most likely it will be 3 years residential. But all rules may or not be same as 3 years residential visa on employment. But I think buying a car and bank account will be included.


Thanks, that would be good for the market 

What I heard they will accept the valuation if the purchase price was less than 1 million, anyway its logic, just an example the Springs prices were aroun 400-700K only for the original buyers and the real price is more than double now.

:cheers:


----------



## Jodel

Imre said:


> Thanks, that would be good for the market
> 
> What I heard they will accept the valuation if the purchase price was less than 1 million, anyway its logic, just an example the Springs prices were aroun 400-700K only for the original buyers and the real price is more than double now.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Last week I was in the last stage of getting my very first 6 month visa & at Land Reg. was told I need a current valuation for my JBR home (bought in 2002 for 700,000) This is to "prove" that the sea view 3 beds at JBR are valued at more than 1 million. They come out and do the on-site valn.for.......4000dhs + 10 docs. fee. Cost of 6 mnths Res. visa is 2700dhshno:
> On Sunday I will again present myself at DLD to arrange, and pay for my valuation. I will then ask the price of the 3 year visa. Wish me luck ..... or pm me if you are, Kandoura wearing, Arabic speaking male as the process will be much quicker.


----------



## Imre

Thanks for the info Jodel!

In your case the valuation is joke, 3 BR sea view JBR market price is more than 1 million without doubt

Please ask them what kind of visa you will get , 3 years visit or residence ?

Buying a car would be a problem, current account and cheque book not too important , you can live without that...


----------



## agod

Jodel said:


> Imre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, that would be good for the market
> 
> What I heard they will accept the valuation if the purchase price was less than 1 million, anyway its logic, just an example the Springs prices were aroun 400-700K only for the original buyers and the real price is more than double now.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Last week I was in the last stage of getting my very first 6 month visa & at Land Reg. was told I need a current valuation for my JBR home (bought in 2002 for 700,000) This is to "prove" that the sea view 3 beds at JBR are valued at more than 1 million. They come out and do the on-site valn.for.......4000dhs + 10 docs. fee. Cost of 6 mnths Res. visa is 2700dhshno:
> On Sunday I will again present myself at DLD to arrange, and pay for my valuation. I will then ask the price of the 3 year visa. Wish me luck ..... or pm me if you are, Kandoura wearing, Arabic speaking male as the process will be much quicker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jo.
> 
> What a con, 4 grand for a 10 minute valuation, take along a recent advert from a real estate agent showing today's value of a 3 bed at JBR, that should be valuation enough.
> 
> They way they worded the press release, as an extension of the 6 month visa, looks as though nothing has changed, they asked my Swiss Friend to lodge 100 grand in the bank as well, he just walked away, saying he will stay a month and then go to his other 3 homes around the world, and spend his monety there.
> 
> This need's to be a completly new visa, with new rules, not something just tagged on to the last unworkable one.
> 
> I look good in my Dishdasha, if that will help, I only speak Yiddish though :lol::lol:
Click to expand...


----------



## Jodel

Imre said:


> Thanks for the info Jodel!
> 
> Buying a car would be a problem, current account and cheque book not too important , you can live without that...


Hi Imre

Del will will be just happy to have his alc***** lic**** renewed.

:cheers:

Jo.


----------



## Jodel

agod said:


> Jodel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jo.
> 
> What a con, 4 grand for a 10 minute valuation, take along a recent advert from a real estate agent showing today's value of a 3 bed at JBR, that should be valuation enough.:[/QUOTE
> 
> Hi Al
> 
> Not a con:shocked: Just another great money making scheme - 4000 x ?????
> 
> 
> I look good in my Dishdasha, if that will help, I only speak Yiddish though :lol::lol:
> 
> 
> 
> But can you dye your hair & grow a beard by Sunday?:lol:
Click to expand...


----------



## MarkWass

agod said:


> take along a recent advert from a real estate agent showing today's value of a 3 bed at JBR, that should be valuation enough.


Comparable evidence from the land department of actual recent sales transactions for similar properties properties in that particular location would be better?


----------



## Imre

Jodel said:


> Hi Imre
> 
> Del will will be just happy to have his alc***** lic**** renewed.
> 
> :cheers:
> 
> Jo.


I am happy without that, Barracuda is much cheaper than the MMI


----------



## Porcello

smussuw said:


> All this ranting is based on the assumption that majority of buyers are not living here already ......


It's a good assumption, I would say, at least in JLT. In many towers here the percentage of resident owners is around 30%.


----------



## MarkWass

smussuw said:


> All this ranting is based on the assumption that majority of buyers are not living here already ......


I would be interested to see a some data that shows the % of all residential property (existing & off plan) that is owned by foreign nationals vs those that do not need a visa to live in Dubai. Would also be interesting to see data showing the future / forecast total real estate supply and what level of investment from future foreign buyers (needing visas) will be required.

Presumably the DLD and govt have these figures...

I also agree with you ND that it will be important for the authorities not to focus too heavily only on certain prime areas. The effects of 'ghettoization', which could be a resulting effect in certain neglected areas, in any city can be very long lasting / detrimental to an entire city, can restrict overall development potential and would have thought something they would want to avoid....


----------



## smussuw

MarkWass said:


> I would be interested to see a some data that shows the % of all residential property (existing & off plan) that is owned by foreign nationals vs those that do not need a visa to live in Dubai. Would also be interesting to see data showing the future / forecast total real estate supply and what level of investment from future foreign buyers (needing visas) will be required..


I was referring to foreigners who are already living here under a working visa in comparison to those who don't ....


----------



## Richard Head

smussuw said:


> All this ranting is based on the assumption that majority of buyers are not living here already ......


Ummmm..no it isn't. If they form only 10% of the total owner population, it has massive significance to the market and the UAE economy as a whole. Your totally dreamt up assumption is way off the mark.


----------



## Richard Head

Porcello said:


> It's a good assumption, I would say, at least in JLT. In many towers here the percentage of resident owners is around 30%.


I think this is also a false assumption. Quite possibly of the people that live there, only 30% are owners, but that is something different altogether. Another 30% of those properties occupied by tenants could be owned by Dubai residents living in one of several Dubai properties they own. There are plenty of multiple unit owners here.


----------



## MarkWass

The govt will have all the accurate existing and more importantly predicted forecast data. And one can only assume that they are using that data when determining their visa policies?


----------



## noir-dresses

Just like the government had data on developers selling real estate like hot cakes guaranteeing sponsorship for residency visas.

It can only be one of two things, they are dumb, or we got scammed, pick what ever works for you cause neither works for me.

It's like some one putting a nice meal in front of you while your hungry, but the catch is you can't eat it.


----------



## Philippa C

agod said:


> What they need is a Retirement Visa attached to this Residential Property Owning One. for the over 60's, no conditions, except a yearly interview to make sure you still own a place, have Medical Cover, and any source of worlwide income is taken into account, and you are still breathing would help.
> 
> Al.


Al, why don't you write with this idea to the relevant authorities and/or get in touch with some journalists, those at The National seem pretty good. The authorities must be listening even a little to have reverted to the 3 year visa. Having a lot of retirees here would also encourage their younger family members to visit which is good for the economy.

Getting people to leave for 3 months at Eid or Christmas is almost inviting them to spend more outside the country. It's at holiday time that people spend most.

I think the minimum value of 1 mil AED for a property is reasonable. They should also apply the one family one villa/apartment rule. It's in the interests of all UAE residents that the calibre of resident is controlled so as to maintain the high living standards and relative safety that we currently enjoy and which make the UAE, and Dubai in particular, an attractive place to live. Can you imagine if resident visas were available on the purchase of any property - you'd have huge families clubbing together to buy a cheap studio and then all living it based on one person's visa and sponsorship of the others. People are always after an angle so the authorities are right to be vigilant and be careful about who is allowed to live here.


----------



## Richard Head

MarkWass said:


> The govt will have all the accurate existing and more importantly predicted forecast data. And one can only assume that they are using that data when determining their visa policies?


I really have no idea why you would think they would get some decent analysis done, and then apply logical policies based on that data. Honestly, there is absolutely no prior history of that happening. They shoot from the hip with minimal real data, based on individual honour, pride, egos, tribalism etc. etc.

Anything but what you are "assuming" will actually happen.


----------



## MarkWass

Richard Head said:


> I really have no idea why you would think they would get some decent analysis done, and then apply logical policies based on that data. Honestly, there is absolutely no prior history of that happening. They shoot from the hip with minimal real data, based on individual honour, pride, egos, tribalism etc. etc.
> 
> Anything but what you are "assuming" will actually happen.


'Assume' you understand sarcasm? :lol:


----------



## Richard Head

MarkWass said:


> 'Assume' you understand sarcasm? :lol:


LOL - Another false assumption, apparently. :lol: :cheers:


----------



## agod

Philippa C said:


> Al, why don't you write with this idea to the relevant authorities and/or get in touch with some journalists, those at The National seem pretty good. The authorities must be listening even a little to have reverted to the 3 year visa. Having a lot of retirees here would also encourage their younger family members to visit which is good for the economy.
> 
> Getting people to leave for 3 months at Eid or Christmas is almost inviting them to spend more outside the country. It's at holiday time that people spend most.
> 
> I think the minimum value of 1 mil AED for a property is reasonable. They should also apply the one family one villa/apartment rule. It's in the interests of all UAE residents that the calibre of resident is controlled so as to maintain the high living standards and relative safety that we currently enjoy and which make the UAE, and Dubai in particular, an attractive place to live. Can you imagine if resident visas were available on the purchase of any property - you'd have huge families clubbing together to buy a cheap studio and then all living it based on one person's visa and sponsorship of the others. People are always after an angle so the authorities are right to be vigilant and be careful about who is allowed to live here.



They have to avoid what happened last time, when that did happen, many undesirables bought cheap studios, and advertised the Visa for sale not the Apatment, it just happened to come with it, this time around they need to be careful who they want in, no problem really, call people in for an interview, and make sure there credentials stack up. 

I have it on good authority, that top people (High End Ex-Pat Lawyers) have been bending the ear of other top people, (High End Government Officials) this new Visa, looks like they are listening.

I have wrote a few articles to the Papers that got published, and action was taken, "Crap in the Marina was one" and in a few weeks they had a couple of Litter Boats working, I was pretty sure that helped.

I think making a comment after the article, is also a good way to communicate to the people mentioned in them, sure as eggs are eggs, they will be looking and reading there own lines, these Forums also get to a few people as well.

Al


----------



## برشلونــــي

rjd said:


> recently had email from rafiullah from rufi stating that the project will be complete on or as soon as december 2012.
> 
> Same Story as always and they just give out random dates.
> 
> *However due to new laws coming into force in Dubai i do believe they will have to complete the project otherwise under new laws coming into force will mean developers will have to give a full refund if not complete.*
> 
> The excuse of force majore is utter rubbish as a global downturn in the property market is human responsibility not an act of nature, God,or war!!!!
> 
> Does anyone visit Rufi at all as im not in Dubai till the end of the year so cant meet them face to face.


*
When the new laws will come ? :banana:*​


----------



## HappyLarry

agod said:


> .......
> I have wrote a few articles to the Papers that got published, and action was taken, "Crap in the Marina was one" and in a few weeks they had a couple of Litter Boats working, I was pretty sure that helped.
> 
> Al


Being proactive normally helps. Well done!


----------



## HappyLarry

*1 Million Threshold for 3 Year Visa*

I can see a ripple effect on property prices with those nearer a million being pushed above to allow buyer to qualify for the visa. Consequently, cheaper prices should get an uplift.
:cheers:


----------



## scottyxcameron

Work at site has recommenced and will hopefully continue through to completion. There's no rush though, as surrounding infrastructure isn't in good shape yet. December 2012 seems realistic.


----------



## kfhwa

*No reply of e-mails*

Rufi twin tower administration keep on extending completion date. We do not see any results. Need to collaborate and go after them.


----------



## kfhwa

It is hard to believe that the Rufi Twin Tower completion date is December 2012. Is there any guarantee?


----------



## mowy2611

Hi Guys,

I'm sure all of you received the update email from ACI. Has anyone seen the site in the last few days? What's the progress?

mowy


----------



## Hopeful

HappyLarry said:


> I can see a ripple effect on property prices with those nearer a million being pushed above to allow buyer to qualify for the visa. Consequently, cheaper prices should get an uplift.
> :cheers:


I suspect you may be right in respect of properties currently valued at around 950k, but I doubt there will be any major price effect on 750k Studios, and no appreciable effect on properties already valued well over 1 million.

Anyway, lets see


----------



## 234sale

3 year Visa is a smokescreen until the full details are published..


----------



## Imre

Hopeful said:


> I suspect you may be right in respect of properties currently valued at around 950k, but I doubt there will be any major price effect on 750k Studios, and no appreciable effect on properties already valued well over 1 million.
> 
> Anyway, lets see


If you want to buy a property which is just 800K and you want visa , just make the MOU like 1 million, just paperwork but you need to pay more transfer fee , thats all.


----------



## Imre

234sale said:


> 3 year Visa is a smokescreen until the full details are published..


Thats true, everyone just guessing now and I think no one has any idea about this

Nothing has been officially decided.


----------



## Ahmed N

mowy2611 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I'm sure all of you received the update email from ACI. Has anyone seen the site in the last few days? What's the progress?
> 
> mowy



Yep, I got the e-mail from ACI with pictures. Although things have commenced - its so slow.......

Why is this forum so "dead" just like the project. Where is everyone. I was told there are 500+ units in the tower - so where is every one!!!hno:


----------



## dubaiprojects

Lots of people are commenting being frustrated with regard to visa and I would like to make some statements based on my understanding with the issues.

1. Why would Dubai grant any kind of long term residence visa that is attached to an investment, is it the practice by other countries? I guess not.

2. Dubai or any GCC country in general would never allow any law that would hint at a later stage to qualify for a permanent residence status. 
There is no such status exists in these countries and I have come to realize that it is not a wise decision for any one to put his/her investments for long term use here.

3. Investing in Dubai is still safer from rest of the gulf countries. In Saudi, for example, the real estate has been allowed for foreigners and lot of expats went for it in the past 2 years. Recently there came a law that applied to expats not able to renew their residency status beyond 6 years if their sponsor is under red category (meaning the firm did not have required Saudization implemented). There have been rumors that people(completed 6 years and their company is red) have been deported back to their home when they returned from vacation while the law was passed in their absence.
Although this is attributed as hoax by the govt here. 

I guess investors should not make unrealistic demands. 

Cheers


----------



## 234sale

None of it makes any sense..

Just Have a 6 month Tourist Visa set at 5000 AED..

If you going to relax in a country as a OAP,, can think of better places to be..

Personally like the Idea of Thailand myself..


----------



## agod

234sale said:


> None of it makes any sense..
> 
> Just Have a 6 month Tourist Visa set at 5000 AED..
> 
> If you going to relax in a country as a OAP,, can this of better places to be..
> 
> Personally like the Idea of Thailand myself..





Many Countries offer a Retirement Visa, on the purchase of a property, or large cash deposits, Malaya, with there Second Home Programme, Panama, and Costa Rica, and other Latin American Countries, Carribbean Island also offer them, there is plenty of choice.

The 6 month Tourist visa, is plenty of time to conduct your Business, I think they are really confusing themselves, they need to state the new 3 year Visa is for Residendcy Purpose only, to say you have to go home at 10 months is ludicrous, you can make that choice yourself, how long you take your Holidays, or when you go, they will probably still keep the 6 months out of the Country Rule.

Al


----------



## dubaiprojects

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/News...xpats-to-trim-costs-boost-locals/Default.aspx

If the workforce is gradually reduced to a large number in the coming decade, what impact it would have on all those free hold apartments for renting purpose? as I think all of the tenants are also expats, and that makes a big difference.


----------



## agod

dubaiprojects said:


> http://www.arabtimesonline.com/News...xpats-to-trim-costs-boost-locals/Default.aspx
> 
> If the workforce is gradually reduced to a large number in the coming decade, what impact it would have on all those free hold apartments for renting purpose? as I think all of the tenants are also expats, and that makes a big difference.




Found this as well, same story, Abu Dhabi throwing out the people that rent homes!!!!

http://www.newzglobe.com/article/20110707/abu-dhabi-lays-expats


----------



## kfhwa

All the investors of Rufi Twin Tower living in Dubai can ask Rufi to provide us the completion date December,2012 in contract form(In writing). If they are honest about this statement then they should not be worried about issuing such statement in writing. I am sure that there are some consequences of plying these games. Investors living in Dubai may know according to the local laws about the consequences of such unfair games and who should we report it to?


----------



## MANUTD

234sale said:


> None of it makes any sense..
> 
> Just Have a 6 month Tourist Visa set at 5000 AED..
> 
> If you going to relax in a country as a OAP,, can think of better places to be..
> 
> Personally like the Idea of Thailand myself..


you dirty old man :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## sgn7200

Everyone seems to have gone quiet. Calling all those good people like bizzybonite, wac, ummbute, jasper1000, porshe911, burntfingers, salum2009 and others for some inputs. We definitely want to know what are DEC upto. I hear from grape wine, some of DEC's projects are on RERA's "Cancellation List" because of their financial inability to build and that is why they are desperately trying to flog off some of their units at DEC Towers, Marina Wharf ! and 2 at exhorbitant prices. Be warned. They will use all their tactics. Once they have taken your money, they won't like to know you. They are excellent sales people. It is a real pity we have been taken for a ride by them. By the way, does anyone know if there is a forum on Face Book or some other web site which gives more information on DEC.


----------



## Jodel

Imre said:


> everyone just guessing now and I think no one has any idea about this
> 
> Nothing has been officially decided.


Visited DRND (on my own!) spoke with a very charming man dressed in full Police Officer?? uniform. He told me - "every day since the announcement I am asked for more details and I just know what you know or have read on WAM, National etc. The full details of the 3 year visa will be announced in the same way within a very short time" 
I told him I was just about to go for the 6 months jobby, when the 3 years was announced so should I stop that and wait? He checked my passport was from an acceptable place then told me to do a Hatta run and it will be the last time. I waited for the "insh'allah" but it didn't come!
He did say if you want to go for the 6 months I can give you that today. Fee of 2000 per passport, ready 1 hour after application form done by typing section & fee paid.
This makes perfect sense if you think about it. They need to get money in big style but by making the announcement before all details are put in place they can no longer earn revenue, whilst many people like me "wait & see" and/or get themselves to Hatta & pay 200dhs. So 2000 is better than 200 but they will make the big money by a quick announcement and reasonable fee then they will be inundated!

PS. ignore the 200 revenue because of course this goes to ...Sultanate of Oman. So it is 2000 or nothing until the rest of the info. is announced.


----------



## HPDubai

Funny thing is that I received 3 days ago a questionnaire from RERA soliciting my opinion about the effect of the new 3 year VISA on the housing sales and rental market. 
It shows to me that the new visa is more an attempt to prop up the housing market rather than an effort to give some justice to property owners who where denied the promised visa's in the past. Guess I have to put my reply on hold until it becomes clear what a 3 year visa really is.....


----------



## MOAF

Hi Guys


Can anyone recommend to me personally a reputable & Pro-active real estate company in dubai for leasing on a fully managed basis.

Many Thanks Folk !!!

MOAF


----------



## noir-dresses

Just read that the UAE is pushing for emerging market status. This is part of the report I really like to hear,

S&P's country classification depends on a range of factors including macroeconomic conditions, political stability, legal property rights and procedures, and trading and settlement processes and conditions.

The last four words in that sentence might be a positive indicator that some of us who have funds stuck with dead beat developers just might see it returned. 

http://gulfnews.com/business/markets/uae-bourses-set-for-s-p-upgrade-1.837256


----------



## DXBQuantum

MOAF said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend to me personally a reputable & Pro-active real estate company in dubai for leasing on a fully managed basis.
> 
> Many Thanks Folk !!!
> 
> MOAF


Call this guy Niall, he manages a couple of my units 056 101 6399


----------



## MOAF

DXBQuantum said:


> Call this guy Niall, he manages a couple of my units 056 101 6399


DXBQuantum, Thanks for that info really appreciate it, which company does Niall work for ??


----------



## Pleth

MOAF said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend to me personally a reputable & Pro-active real estate company in dubai for leasing on a fully managed basis.
> 
> Many Thanks Folk !!!
> 
> MOAF


Whatever you do DON'T use Marks Falcon. I will be happy to pm you the 3 long pages of complaints that I have filed hno:


----------



## Imre

*Be careful with some companies which are offering sub-leasing , its fraud !*



:nuts:


----------



## Jpska

Hi All

I have been a regular visitor to the Dubai skyscrapercity forum. It has been a great way for me to keep abreast with all construction and investment information for the last couple of years. A thank you to all that contribute in many ways, it has been both very informative and entertaining at times. I thought I would finally contribute with some leasing information relative to Marina Promenade. I have a mid-floor 1 bedroom apartment partial marina & sea view. Below is the rent from the high of 2008 to current.

2008-2009 Rent: 150,000 AED
2009-2010 : 120,000
2011-2012 : 100,000 Just renewed end of June

I thought 100K AED 4 cheques was a good outcome considering Dubizzle has quite a few all around the 85-90K mark. As I am in Australia, I am told Marina promenade is in good demand from prospective tenants. What rates are others renewing at? To any owners or people that reside or go past the complex, how is the complex keeping, do the FM providers do a good job of maintaining and keeping the place clean? Any issues that have come to light regarding construction?(makes me wonder when reading the poor Point thread which is just next door) what would the occupancy rate be roughly? Thanks in advance and hope to contribute a little more 
Sorry might be in wrong thread but last couple of pages have been on rental rates, location and build quality within the marina.


----------



## dubayyy

*Letting Agents in Ajman*

Hi

Can anyone recommend a good letting agent in Ajman? I would like to let some residential units which are coming up for completion.

Thank you


----------



## noir-dresses

Food for thought, you must pay Germany's unpaid debt, or else.

Little off topic, but no joking around with these guys.

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...37-impounded-at-munich-over-unpaid-debts.html


----------



## Pleth

noir-dresses said:


> Food for thought, you must pay Germany's unpaid debt, or else.
> 
> Little off topic, but no joking around with these guys.
> 
> http://www.flightglobal.com/article...37-impounded-at-munich-over-unpaid-debts.html


Yes that is an interesting story.


----------



## paul66

Northern Emirates Property


----------



## True Blue

^^ Absolutely, considering the countries that have supported their industry working for the Dubai government on infrastructure projects. Could Japan or France be considering the same tactic with Emirates aircraft, if they don't get recompense.


----------



## wittyman

*Need help for sale & purchase transaction*

Dear forumers,

I am about to sell an apartment. I want to do the transaction remotely without any need to be in Dubai personally. There is a buyer who also lives out of Dubai. His realtor follows things up for him. I plan to issue a power of attroney to the realtor of the buyer so that she can do all leg work with the developer and land department etc, short of the final step needed to complete the transaction. For that final step I intend to send somebody to Dubai for a couple of days max with a PoA to finalize the transaction and assure the payment is made.

Can the above work? Has anybody done something like this? 

What is the usual procedure? When should I sign a MoU? The Sale & Purchase Agreement? Can these documents be executed remotely and excanged via e-mail and / or courier company? How to collect the deposit for the sale from the buyer? The realtor says her company will keep the deposit. How reliable this can be? Is there any way that I can collect the deposit? 

I do not have any bank account in Dubai and do not have somebody close to rely on living in Dubai to ask for direct involvement in this.

Any guidance and comments will be highly appreciated. 

Thanks and wish you all the best.


----------



## xingu

wittyman said:


> Dear forumers,
> 
> I am about to sell an apartment. I want to do the transaction remotely without any need to be in Dubai personally. There is a buyer who also lives out of Dubai. His realtor follows things up for him. I plan to issue a power of attroney to the realtor of the buyer so that she can do all leg work with the developer and land department etc, short of the final step needed to complete the transaction. For that final step I intend to send somebody to Dubai for a couple of days max with a PoA to finalize the transaction and assure the payment is made.
> 
> Can the above work? Has anybody done something like this?
> 
> What is the usual procedure? When should I sign a MoU? The Sale & Purchase Agreement? Can these documents be executed remotely and excanged via e-mail and / or courier company? How to collect the deposit for the sale from the buyer? The realtor says her company will keep the deposit. How reliable this can be? Is there any way that I can collect the deposit?
> 
> I do not have any bank account in Dubai and do not have somebody close to rely on living in Dubai to ask for direct involvement in this.
> 
> Any guidance and comments will be highly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks and wish you all the best.


http://poaservice.com/index.php


----------



## MOAF

xingu said:


> http://poaservice.com/index.php


I have used the POA service & helen the owner of the (POA service) is fantastic..

Good recommendation Xingu

MOAF


----------



## xingu

MOAF said:


> I have used the POA service & helen the owner of the (POA service) is fantastic..
> 
> Good recommendation Xingu
> 
> MOAF


Yes, she is a friend of mine but her service is top notch.


----------



## AjmanOwner

Are they still in business?


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> ^^ Absolutely, considering the countries that have supported their industry working for the Dubai government on infrastructure projects. Could Japan or France be considering the same tactic with Emirates aircraft, if they don't get recompense.


Yes I suppose so. ^^


----------



## Kavim91

maybe its the wron place to ask, but i cldnt found a better subforum:

Is it true that jewish people cant go to the emirates?
Or live there?
what about christians with jewish familynames?


----------



## diku

xingu said:


> Yes, she is a friend of mine but her service is top notch.


I agree, and she gives very Pro advice...
I am resident in UAE and my wife was travelling to backhome, and we were in middle of buying one appt.....She gave sound advice and full support. Even guided me not to use her services which will waste money as I am in UAE only.

i am very impressed.


----------



## smussuw

Kavim91 said:


> maybe its the wron place to ask, but i cldnt found a better subforum:
> 
> Is it true that jewish people cant go to the emirates?
> Or live there?
> what about christians with jewish familynames?


Israelis citizens are not allowed ...


----------



## True Blue

Kavim91 said:


> maybe its the wrong place to ask, but i cldnt found a better subforum:
> 
> Is it true that jewish people cant go to the emirates?
> Or live there?
> *what about christians with jewish family names*?


^^Made me laugh! 

What about white people called Winston?:lol:


----------



## HappyLarry

True Blue said:


> ^^Made me laugh!
> 
> What about white people called Winston?:lol:


Churchill, definitely yes!
Churchilstein, maybe!
:cheers:


----------



## mowy2611

I passed by the site the other day. Work was progressing

Had a chat with the security guard there, he said that in the morning (6:30 to 12) there are over 150 workers on site. After 3PM there will be 10 to 15 workers on site till 7PM. As of last Wednesday (July 13th) they also started working night shifts from 7PM to 11PM

They're currently on the 28th floor..

This only means they'll reach the 30th floor soon and will ask for the 30th floor payment.. what do u guys plan on doing? Should we just pay?

let me know your thoughts


----------



## Ahmed N

mowy2611 said:


> I passed by the site the other day. Work was progressing
> 
> Had a chat with the security guard there, he said that in the morning (6:30 to 12) there are over 150 workers on site. After 3PM there will be 10 to 15 workers on site till 7PM. As of last Wednesday (July 13th) they also started working night shifts from 7PM to 11PM
> 
> They're currently on the 28th floor..
> 
> This only means they'll reach the 30th floor soon and will ask for the 30th floor payment.. what do u guys plan on doing? Should we just pay?
> 
> let me know your thoughts


I have been told that they will reach 30th Floor mid September - then payment will be due from investors who in their contract - payment due on reaching 30th Floor.

Surely those investors will have to pay, otherwise they are breaking the contract! With the money they get - the plan is to finish the project with this money. If people don't pay - then what then...........will it be on hold again?

I have paid 80% of the purchase price - so have invested allot in this project. I am please to see things are progressing.

Also, I have been told that they are no longer allowed to work round the clock - as this is an area where people live - and the noise is an issue. Upto 11pm is good.

Thanks for the update. Its good to get some activity on the forum as well as the construction site.


----------



## True Blue

Intersting to note that asking prices in the marina seem to be healthier looking than at the start of the year. Just read about a Marina Promenade 1 bed going for 100k and I see listings for Jewels 1 beds at 80-85k unfurnished. Dorrabay 2 bed 120k whereas before the average was 110k. I just quote these buildings because I know that market well.

I previously estimated the market for Torch units at 65k average for 1 beds and 85k average for 2 beds. Some are suggesting the price is now 70k and 90k respectivly. So I wonder if things are improving despite the additional supply coming to the market?


----------



## williamX

*jewish*



Kavim91 said:


> maybe its the wron place to ask, but i cldnt found a better subforum:
> 
> Is it true that jewish people cant go to the emirates?
> Or live there?
> what about christians with jewish familynames?


It's not allowed to enter UAE with Israel pasport or if you have Israel visa in passport. 

If you are Jewish without Israel background you can easily come to UAE. 
In UAE live a lot of Jewish people from different countries, most of them never been in Israel.


----------



## agod

williamX said:


> It's not allowed to enter UAE with Israel pasport or if you have Israel visa in passport.
> 
> If you are Jewish without Israel background you can easily come to UAE.
> In UAE live a lot of Jewish people from different countries, most of them never been in Israel.





Yes that's very true, its the Isreali connection that they worry about, and doesn't Sol Kerzner a South African Jew, own the Atlantis?


----------



## biyadoo

^^ I have visited Dubai while having Israel visa on my passport, in fact both visas are now on the same page!


----------



## agod

Marvellous, if only they where on the same page in real life.

a.


----------



## Mistermark

smussuw said:


> Israelis citizens are not allowed ...


That's remarkable. And shameful.


----------



## Flintbug

biyadoo said:


> ^^ I have visited Dubai while having Israel visa on my passport, in fact both visas are now on the same page!


Before I first came to Dubai I had to make a mad dash to London to replace my passport containing an Israeli visa. The Dubai consular website said they were not allowed. When I checked the next week after replacing the passport the message was changed and they were no longer mentioned as excluded. 

Just like many other things here, it depends on the day of the week and who is interpreting the latest edicts.


----------



## jagmp

I have visited Dubai many times with Israeli visa on my passport in past two years.


----------



## HappyLarry

Mistermark said:


> That's remarkable. And shameful.


No different to people being turned away from UK on religious grounds. Or US rejecting Barton (Newcastle player).

Rules are rules. :cheers:


----------



## HappyLarry

Does that mean Dubai is full of Mossad agents? 
Mind you Mossad agents won;t be posting her. I think!
So we are OK. oops!


----------



## xingu

True Blue said:


> Intersting to note that asking prices in the marina seem to be healthier looking than at the start of the year. Just read about a Marina Promenade 1 bed going for 100k and I see listings for Jewels 1 beds at 80-85k unfurnished. Dorrabay 2 bed 120k whereas before the average was 110k. I just quote these buildings because I know that market well.
> 
> I previously estimated the market for Torch units at 65k average for 1 beds and 85k average for 2 beds. Some are suggesting the price is now 70k and 90k respectivly. So I wonder if things are improving despite the additional supply coming to the market?


Colleague just picked up a 2 bed in the Torch for 78k, 4 cheques (last week)

30 something floor


----------



## True Blue

xingu said:


> Colleague just picked up a 2 bed in the Torch for 78k, 4 cheques (last week)
> 
> 30 something floor


Do you know the aspect/view?


----------



## xingu

True Blue said:


> Do you know the aspect/view?


02 unit if that helps? 

Emirates Golf club one side and buildings the other, essentially looking towards DMC area


----------



## arfie

xingu said:


> Colleague just picked up a 2 bed in the Torch for 78k, 4 cheques (last week)
> 
> 30 something floor


The marina facing apartments 05/06 are getting between 90-95,000 aed so quite abit of difference between marina facing and golf facing views.


----------



## xingu

arfie said:


> The marina facing apartments 05/06 are getting between 90-95,000 aed so quite abit of difference between marina facing and golf facing views.


Great for golf fans, I've just moved into a 14 unit in Tanaro, best view in Dubai


----------



## Pleth

xingu said:


> 02 unit if that helps?
> 
> Emirates Golf club one side and buildings the other, essentially looking towards DMC area


Some of the views in the tall end of the Marina are horrible, just looking into the next nabours window. hno:
And the nabouring buildings make the apartment really dark, no sun.

JBR, Bahar is going for 75.000 Aed in one cheque, for 2 bedr. View is stunning Marina view from the master bedroom, and building view from the other rooms.


----------



## xingu

Pleth said:


> Some of the views in the tall end of the Marina are horrible, just looking into the next nabours window. hno:
> And the nabouring buildings make the apartment really dark, no sun.
> 
> JBR, Bahar is going for 75.000 Aed in one cheque, for 2 bedr. View is stunning Marina view from the master bedroom, and building view from the other rooms.


JBR is ghetto though, I left there in June. Looks like it needs pulling down already and it is only what, 3 years old?

Amwaj is different, the towers that are Sheikh whoever owned, friend has a one bed there that is huge, with an amazing balcony you can actually use.


----------



## Imre

Just a question, why did you remove all post from the Ubora thread, Korean developer ( Bando ) asked to remove as you are their employee or sales man?

Have a look the other threads, Torch,Bay Central,Point .. full of discussion about the developer , investments etc..

Why are you not removing those posts as well?

I cant see the logic!






234sale said:


> Investment related...
> 
> Sorry for that,,
> 
> Please use
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com//showthread.php?t=490764&page=1341
> 
> The investment thread, comment there will not be deleted
> 
> You can discuss investment related infomation.
> 
> 
> 
> If you feel unjustly represented
> 
> Please use
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com//showthread.php?t=415360&page=42
> 
> 
> Or contact our Admin staff, http://www.skyscrapercity.com//member.php?u=1


----------



## 234sale

^^ Owner..

As to your question

Torch,Bay Central,Point .. full of discussion about the developer , investments etc..

Why are you not removing those posts as well?


We started a Select thread to remove legal rubbish from project threads.

Now going to cull those threads for investment related advice..

Thanks for highlighting this..

Will be warning and keeping record of infractions.


----------



## Imre

Good luck for it 

Also the Sports City,Dubailand , Palm Jumeirah ,Palm Jebel Ali ,Jumeirah Village etc.. threads full of investments and developers attacking.

Business Bay section also, just have a look the ACI or Omniyat projects.

Anyway it was interesting that you started with the Ubora and today..


----------



## 234sale

Yep,, looks like we will be culling it all..

Admins of SSC doesn't want legal issue's inside the threads..

So going to be buzy,, got plenty of time on my hands

Was going to take some photos, but this can wait a week.

Also I started today with deleting some legal posts from the main section..


----------



## micmonro1

*Investing in Select - HEALTH WARNING*

If any investors are thinking of investing with Select Property (aka Select Group in Dubai) BE VERY AWARE of this company who have this stitching people up for years.

I invested in the Torch development in Dubai Marina through Select Property who purported to be a direct developer and gave the impression that my investment is safe in their hands as they are UK based. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS.

I am a UK lawyer and I even got drawn into their misleading sales tactics. Select Group (who only disclosed themselves as the developers later) are now refusing to hand over my unit unless I sign very unfair addendums unless I pay up the long payment plan which I am tied up to for another 10 years!

I know people from the Point development in Dubai Marina, many from the Torch who contacted me who are trapped and even Bay Central investors whose project is delayed like ours (which was a 3 year delay).

*I and others are now taking LEGAL ACTION against Select Group.* Please follow my posts on the Torch Completed thread and Select thread where I have posted legal advice with Dubai law and articles.

For Bay Central investors you are entitled to get your full refund for breach of contract.

Lily

PS I know Select Group (a sub-developer) cronies will be attacking this post and my integrity but I am determined to take SG on until I get justice for myself and others.


----------



## True Blue

A copy of my post that was deleted from the *Ubora Towers *thread; 

I takes time to compose these informative posts and it is quite infuriating that it can just be deleted at a whim, especially given that the person doing the deleting has a vested interest.



> *You don't find out the true colour of a person you do business with until things turn bad. *
> 
> *Bando* had big problems with this project when they had to sack the original contractor and find someone else to take over. Every buyer had the right to walk away but the developer came up with a price reduction incentive to try and keep everyone onboard. The fact that the market was crashing meant that the price reduction was not much of an incentive and it probably reflected the savings that Bando were making from frustrating the original contract and hiring a cheaper contractor to finish the job.
> 
> As the project neared completion and the financial crisis had taken full hold of the Dubai property landscape, it became obvious that many would not now be able to raise the funds to complete the purchase. These were the loyal buyers who stuck with the faltering developer through his dark period. So did the developer stick with his loyal customers and try and find a way to help them overcome their dark period? Maybe by offering consolidation of funds or rent to buy options? No! Instead they used a brand new law that didn't exist when the sales agreements were signed to deprive them of all their money and take back the property, apparently using dirty tricks like supplying the wrong address info to the land department so they would not be able to contact the investors. The official termination notices would then pass unchallenged.
> 
> Quite unbelievable way to conduct a business.


Note that since I have had a number of worthwhile posts deleted recently, I started to back them up so they can be easily reinstated. The above post is relevant in this thread and should not be deleted.


----------



## methodinmadness

*Aristocrat & Royal Estates*

As December 2011 deadline draws nearer we need start to pressure RERA into cancelling this project. Only then will we stand a chance of getting some money back and thats only if the Bank has not already released all our deposits from Escrow. This project is dead people! Time to act!


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> A copy of my post that was deleted from the *Ubora Towers *thread;
> 
> I takes time to compose these informative posts and it is quite infuriating that it can just be deleted at a whim, especially given that the person doing the deleting has a vested interest.
> 
> 
> 
> Note that since I have had a number of worthwhile posts deleted recently, I started to back them up so they can be easily reinstated. The above post is relevant in this thread and should not be deleted.


Great!

:lol:


----------



## abf

*Role of PRD*

What is the role of PRD if they have no news on any progress or non progress - at least they can say where it is with Rera


----------



## diku

*Hi*

Just curious, may be active and experts can answer this question...

If i have appartment with finance (Lease to own). what is the procedure for sub leasing and registering Tenancy contract in RERA?
(Means I own the appartment and want to give on lease)

Any advise will be highly appreciated.... 
Imre.... any idea?

Thanking all in advance.


----------



## Imre

diku said:


> Just curious, may be active and experts can answer this question...
> 
> If i have appartment with finance (Lease to own). what is the procedure for sub leasing and registering Tenancy contract in RERA?
> (Means I own the appartment and want to give on lease)
> 
> Any advise will be highly appreciated....
> Imre.... any idea?
> 
> Thanking all in advance.


You should check the "Lease to own" agreement first about the sub-leasing, usually its not a problem but maybe you need to ask permission from the developer/bank.

Actually all tenancy contract should be registered with the RERA but the online registration system is still not perfect so better to check with them..

Just got a confirmation today,I will have the Ejari course in August , I will have more info after.


----------



## BC37

Thank you. I am since 2009 in legal action with BC, however until now without result since jurisdical location is until now not verified. BC constantly issued threats in expropriating my units in BC even though court actions are in progress in UAE and UK likewise. I am happy to reunify both court appeals if possible. 

This kind of constructors can be expected in South America or Africa but surely not in a more or less civilized countries. Warning to all investors of this company : If this site will be finalized, be prepared having full scale building and constructor failures on the towers and apartments.

High maintenance charges will only feed BC funds since foreseen bankruptcy is due to within 12 months due to negative investments in UAE, Spain and other locations. 

Wl ctc u asap. Thnks


----------



## bister

Rallyman

How long time did it take from appeal court ruling till ruling in Court of Cassation? And any progress with collecting from ACI?


----------



## anacreon

BC37 said:


> Thank you. I am since 2009 in legal action with BC, however until now without result since jurisdical location is until now not verified. BC constantly issued threats in expropriating my units in BC even though court actions are in progress in UAE and UK likewise. I am happy to reunify both court appeals if possible.
> 
> This kind of constructors can be expected in South America or Africa but surely not in a more or less civilized countries. Warning to all investors of this company : If this site will be finalized, be prepared having full scale building and constructor failures on the towers and apartments.
> 
> High maintenance charges will only feed BC funds since foreseen bankruptcy is due to within 12 months due to negative investments in UAE, Spain and other locations.
> 
> Wl ctc u asap. Thnks



This post puzzles me. What investments would BC (the legally separate entity developing Bay Central) have mede in Spain and eleswhere?


----------



## anacreon

Any one moved into MW1 yet? If so, any feedback on what's it like in practice to live there?


----------



## FWIW

Why has Lily been banned?


----------



## anacreon

Does anyone know if DEC are actually constructing any of their projects at the moment (other than perhaps MW2)?


----------



## AndyH

FWIW said:


> Why has Lily been banned?


As 234sale just said, legal issues are not welcome to be posted here now, and directly after that a legal post was made. Thats my guess


----------



## Morten_Denmark

*Regarding Ubora Towers - avoid Bando*

I also had my post deleted from the Ubora Tower thread - below is one of my warnings. So think twice when buying into this project.


When I bought into this project I was told - and the SPA reflected it - that I could cancel anytime and would only loose 10% of total price. When the project was delayed a certain time I could get all back with a dividend. It was all a lie. I tried to cancel but was rejected. I lost it all. I have dealt with many developers in Dubai but this is the worst by many levels. Select are angles compared to these guys. I only got the cancellation letter because the courier knew my company and called me.

Maybe renters have no risks here and I still think it is a lovely development and the developer did a good job finishing the towers - but being an owner here and you ask for trouble.

hno:


----------



## Imre

Thats joke.


----------



## Imre

Morten_Denmark said:


> I only got the cancellation letter because the courier knew my company and called me.


I got the cancellation letter from the Land Department, they used the Google and found my email because the Bando provided fake address and phone number them..


----------



## True Blue

Morten_Denmark said:


> I also had my post deleted from the Ubora Tower thread - below is one of my warnings. So think twice when buying into this project.
> 
> 
> When I bought into this project I was told - and the SPA reflected it - that I could cancel anytime and would only loose 10% of total price. When the project was delayed a certain time I could get all back with a dividend. It was all a lie. I tried to cancel but was rejected. I lost it all. I have dealt with many developers in Dubai but this is the worst by many levels. Select are angles compared to these guys. I only got the cancellation letter because the courier knew my company and called me.
> 
> Maybe renters have no risks here and I still think it is a lovely development and the developer did a good job finishing the towers - but being an owner here and you ask for trouble.
> 
> hno:


Can you imagine being stranded in a life boat with Bando executives? They would feed you to the fish before sharing the emergency supplies with you. It was all champagne and caviar when the ship was afloat but when push comes to shove, you get shoved!


----------



## Morten_Denmark

True Blue said:


> Can you imagine being stranded in a life boat with Bando executives? They would feed you to the fish before sharing the emergency supplies with you. It was all champagne and caviar when the ship was afloat but when push comes to shove, you get shoved!


 I hope it will never be the case. 

I have never had the pleasure meeting one of them and communication are done via persons with hotmail addresses. I should have known already then that I would have problems. I just hope my experiences can help others to not get into the same situation.


----------



## MarkWass

*..it's NEVER too late to start*

The situation will never change, and from a longer term viewpoint (10, 20, 30 years etc) the true full potential for what really could be the opportunity to be the greatest (and fastest expanding) city on the planet, will never be able to be realised *until* the very day that those in power decide to restore confidence, by implementing some very basic regulation and consumer protection mechanisms that actually works?

Ok, Dubai took a knock from the global economic recession and the huge influx of dodgy dealers exploiting a relatively immature marketplace, that was perhaps not equipped to deal with that exploitation of the system. But in the grand scheme of things, surely it’s not too late to actually start regulating?


----------



## MarkWass

MarkWass said:


> The situation will never change, and from a longer term viewpoint (10, 20, 30 years etc) the true full potential for what really could be the opportunity to be the greatest (and fastest expanding) city on the planet, will never be able to be realised *until* the very day that those in power decide to restore confidence, by implementing some very basic regulation and consumer protection mechanisms that actually works?
> 
> Ok, Dubai took a knock from the global economic recession and the huge influx of dodgy dealers exploiting a relatively immature marketplace, that was perhaps not equipped to deal with that exploitation of the system. But in the grand scheme of things, surely it’s not too late to actually start regulating?


Btw, glad the copy pastes of meaningless media articles have gone quiet here recently. For real actual facts on the situation, ignore media and either read SSC or read the comments sections below those incessant media articles. Unfortunately many journalists have no morals and simply cannot be trusted, as we are finding out very ckearly at the moment in the UK!


----------



## 234sale

NO LEGAL STUFF IN PROJECT THREADS>>>>

Use the select thread to discuss the developer,, thats why we opened it..


IN THE DEVELOPMENT THREADS
PLEASE FOCUS ON
Infrastructure
Development
Photography
Architecture
Urbanity


----------



## 234sale

Zengana said:


> Simple she speaks the truth and she is being silenced but I already have her email and contacted her.
> 
> I urge you to join me in asking the moderator to lift the ban.


It's not ok to discuss legal in development threads,, Select don't own the building.. Individuals do,, attacking the Torch is an attack on the physical building and its community...


----------



## HappyLarry

Morten_Denmark said:


> I also had my post deleted from the Ubora Tower thread - below is one of my warnings. So think twice when buying into this project.
> 
> 
> When I bought into this project I was told - and the SPA reflected it - that I could cancel anytime and would only loose 10% of total price. When the project was delayed a certain time I could get all back with a dividend. It was all a lie. I tried to cancel but was rejected. I lost it all. I have dealt with many developers in Dubai but this is the worst by many levels. Select are angles compared to these guys. I only got the cancellation letter because the courier knew my company and called me.
> 
> Maybe renters have no risks here and I still think it is a lovely development and the developer did a good job finishing the towers - but being an owner here and you ask for trouble.
> 
> hno:


Morten,
I am so sorry to read you lost it all with this particular developer. I guess I was extremely fortunate and avoided investment in Ubora due to a confusion over what I thought I was buying and what I was offered instead and I backed out.
Their "front man" seemed genuine but I was put off by the perception. hno:


----------



## HappyLarry

MarkWass said:


> The situation will never change, and from a longer term viewpoint (10, 20, 30 years etc) the true full potential for what really could be the opportunity to be the greatest (and fastest expanding) city on the planet, will never be able to be realised *until* the very day that those in power decide to restore confidence, by implementing some very basic regulation and consumer protection mechanisms that actually works?
> 
> Ok, Dubai took a knock from the global economic recession and the huge influx of dodgy dealers exploiting a relatively immature marketplace, that was perhaps not equipped to deal with that exploitation of the system. But in the grand scheme of things, surely it’s not too late to actually start regulating?


My perception is that the dodgy dealers have got hungrier and meaner. I seem to have noticed that as a building is about to be handed over, its units are marked down in fake sales in freely accessible UAE online publications. Possibly to pressurise poor investors to bail out at even more destressing prices. Shame on those with ill gotten wealth.hno:
I am afraid greed begets greed.


----------



## Imre

Good news 

*Dubai balcony ban: Dh1,500 fine for clothes, dish antennas*

*No action has been taken against errant tenants yet even though residents openly flout rules*

By Parag Deulgaonkar and Mohamad El SidafyPublished Thursday, July 21, 2011 

Dubai does not allow residents to distort the image of the city by hanging clothes, install dish antennas, or place junk in their balconies and those not paying attention to warnings could face penalties as high as Dh1,500, according to a Dubai Municipality official.

“No one is allowed to hang clothes or install dish antennas in the balconies as per the administration order number 3, issued in 1999,” said Eng Omar Abdul Rahman, Head of Building Inspection Section, Dubai Municipality, told Emirates 24|7.

“But we haven’t faced this problem here. People have good culture and understand their responsibilities towards the society. Even building owners are taking action by asking tenants not to dry their clothes outside.”

However, DM has yet not taken action against errant tenants. “So we haven’t taken any action. If we get any complaint from residents, we will take action. In the first instance, we will give them warning but if they continue to ignore the rule then we will fine them.”

_*Rahman said that the fines could range from Dh500 to Dh1500 depending on size of the balcony.*_

http://www.emirates247.com/news/dub...for-clothes-dish-antennas-2011-07-21-1.408894


----------



## 234sale

^^ Started in Shj, last week..

But no warning,, just fines

Personally it's a good thing..


----------



## True Blue

Take a look at Marina Wharf, brand new building in the marina and it is littered with satellite dishes already. There is no point in having rules if no one is prepared to enforce them.

There is an idiot who lives in The Jewels who has erected screens and satellite dish on his balcony. It completely ruins the look of the tower but he doesn't care. He is the only owner not paying his service fees and has been reported to the authorities for his illegal alterations. He will pay the fine every 2 years rather than sort the problem. If he was an expat he would have been dealt with long ago.


----------



## 234sale

Dubai Goverment inforcing a good thing that we all agree on....

Also it means du can make a few extra pennies


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> Take a look at Marina Wharf, brand new building in the marina and it is littered with satellite dishes already. There is no point in having rules if no one is prepared to enforce them.


I think the worst example is the Lake View Tower at the JLT , the Abu Dhabi side looks terrible, good income for the Municipality  :



Imre said:


> 11/September/2009
> 
> Lake View , JLT


Some of them have 2 satelites , I saw a huge one at the MAG 214 , probably was around 2 m diameter but not sure still there or they moved out.

:lol::nuts::lol:


----------



## Porcello

It's the developer's fault. They should have provided a centralized satellite distribution system like it has been done in other towers.


----------



## R Malhotra

I feel that if every one wants the possession of this project, we all would have to make the payment as per the schedule, as this will only be in our interest. if we delay/not pay then this will further get delayed.


----------



## lovedubai

Porcello said:


> It's the developer's fault. They should have provided a centralized satellite distribution system like it has been done in other towers.


Agree absolutely. If there's no centralised satellite distribution, then of course the balconies are going to be littered with satellites.


----------



## True Blue

It's the cable companys fault! For charging for free to view services. All developers installed wired media services in the developments but Du and Etislat insist on charging ridiculous fees to access free channels. 

Maybe the answer is the same as in UK. You pay for receiving equipment annual licence fee. 100AED for cable access including access to communal satellite system, 1000AED for private Satellite access Then Du and Etislat get a lump sum payment for providing free to view services free to license holders. The sat dishes would soon disappear also as people reverted to the cheaper alternative.


----------



## propertymagnet

True Blue said:


> It's the cable companys fault! For charging for free to view services. All developers installed wired media services in the developments but Du and Etislat insist on charging ridiculous fees to access free channels.
> 
> Maybe the answer is the same as in UK. You pay for receiving equipment annual licence fee. 100AED for cable access including access to communal satellite system, 1000AED for private Satellite access Then Du and Etislat get a lump sum payment for providing free to view services free to license holders. The sat dishes would soon disappear also as people reverted to the cheaper alternative.


Crikey Scott the Dubai government wouldn't be able to cope with something as straight forward and as simple as that :lol::lol:


----------



## Chipmunk

Imre said:


> You should check the "Lease to own" agreement first about the sub-leasing, usually its not a problem but maybe you need to ask permission from the developer/bank.
> 
> Actually all tenancy contract should be registered with the RERA but the online registration system is still not perfect so better to check with them..
> 
> Just got a confirmation today,I will have the Ejari course in August , I will have more info after.



I have a few properties which I rent out so I took the Ejari course a couple of months ago and already have the Ejari online account set up.

So if anyone has any specific questions about the procedure for setting it up or about the Ejari system itself then let me know.


----------



## Imre

Chipmunk said:


> I have a few properties which I rent out so I took the Ejari course a couple of months ago and already have the Ejari online account set up.
> 
> So if anyone has any specific questions about the procedure for setting it up or about the Ejari system itself then let me know.


After the Ejari course you have got an access for the system , right?

Can you make the registration and payment online or still need to visit the RERA/Land Department ?

I wanted to go earlier but the next available English course just on 22 August..


----------



## Chipmunk

Imre said:


> After the Ejari course you have got an access for the system , right?
> 
> Can you make the registration and payment online or still need to visit the RERA/Land Department ?
> 
> I wanted to go earlier but the next available English course just on 22 August..



Yes, they sent me the login details 3-4 days after I took the course. The course itself seemed like a waste of time and money. There were only two of us attending on that day and it lasted about 3 hours or so, with a snack break in between. They were teaching us how to use the Ejari system but all the instructions are also available in a detailed, but very easy-to-follow pdf manual on the Ejari website once you log in. So I didn't feel it was necessary for me to attend the course.

Once you've got your online account you need to visit the Land Department to put some money in there. It took them a few days to actually credit the money into my account. Then you can start issuing and registering contracts on the website.

You need to type in all the terms and conditions of the contract in both English and Arabic otherwise you won't be able to make the contracts. The standard pre-defined terms from RERA that you see on the old contracts have not yet been uploaded on the Ejari system so you'll have to type them all up yourself in the meantime.

Alternatively, you can just use the Ejari system to scan and upload the old style paper contracts and have them registered like that for Dhs. 160.


----------



## Imre

Thanks Chipmunk!


----------



## Flintbug

I had a quick look for ejari courses but there didn't seem to be one for owners. Do these exist? If so Is there a timetable?

I also read the process and it seemed to place so many barriers for overseas owners that they don't seem serious. Is there any way of booking a course without first coming to Dubai? How will you type in the Arabic version of the contract? Do you need to register for a simple renewal?
Thanks


----------



## True Blue

I don't like this condition that the contracts have to be in english and arabic. I questioned my rental contract set up by Better Homes as to why it was not in Arabic but they said their lawers had drafted it and Rera had approved it so no need for Arabic translation.:bash:


----------



## Chipmunk

Flintbug said:


> I had a quick look for ejari courses but there didn't seem to be one for owners. Do these exist? If so Is there a timetable?
> 
> I also read the process and it seemed to place so many barriers for overseas owners that they don't seem serious. Is there any way of booking a course without first coming to Dubai? How will you type in the Arabic version of the contract? Do you need to register for a simple renewal?
> Thanks



Yes there is a course for owners. That's the one I had to take. It's known as 'Manager (Individual)' and you can register for it on the following link:

http://www.ejari.ae/RegistrationForms/FormsDescription.aspx (it's the first one on the right hand column)

I think you do need to be in Dubai to register because I had to go to RERA to pay Dhs. 500 for the course. They sent me a confirmation email a few days later in which they invited me to pick from two course dates which were both 1-2 weeks away.

You don't type the whole contract in Arabic. You just need to type the terms & conditions in Arabic (and English) and I guess the only way you can do that is if you get an Arab speaker to help you out with it!

And in the course that I took, the demo version that they were training us on had the standard terms & conditions that you see in the old style paper contracts. The Ejari system is supposed to allow you tick a box that asks you whether you want to use those standard conditions. On top of that, you can also type your own ones. Alternatively you can ignore their conditions and make your own set. But the problem is that although in the demo version they have the option to select the standard conditions, they haven't yet added them to the official system that you will end up using. So basically you have to type everything up yourself with the help of an Arab speaker.

What is much easier is to use the feature that will allow you to scan and upload existing paper contracts and have them registered by the Ejari system. So I think it's much easier to continue writing contracts on the paper versions and just upload them to the website and register them for Dhs. 160 rather than spending so much time creating your own ones on Ejari.

They've said that every contract now needs to be registered or the owners will get fined Dhs. 50,000 but when I asked them at RERA they said they have no plans right now to do this. I even asked them about one particular paper contract that I made in June this year. I asked if I now needed to upload it and register it but he said not to worry and just to make sure I use the Ejari system next time when I renew it in June 2012.

Basically it looks like this Ejari system is just to make a bit of money and they don't seem like they actually they're actually going to fine anyone for not using it. And someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they're checking the status of your tenancy contract registration if you ever do end up going to the Rent Committee in case of disputes.


----------



## Imre

Chipmunk said:


> And someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they're checking the status of your tenancy contract registration if you ever do end up going to the Rent Committee in case of disputes.


DEWA will ask the Ejari registration before opening an account but still no idea from when.


----------



## W40arx

Guys, we need to fulfil our end of the deal which is to comply with the terms outlined in our contracts i.e. make our payments on the agreed completion dates. Now we have to evaluate the pros and cons of making payments; make the payment for the 30th floor and hope that the construction will continue (most of us have paid 80% anyway), or do not make payment and risk our investments being repossessed and lose monies that we have paid to date. 

Risk is either way. I don't feel to pay anymore than I have done already but seems as though most of us have no choice.

Regards


----------



## Imre

*Burj Khalifa unit owners prefer to rent at discount than sell at loss*

*Rents drop by as much as 25% as compared to last year*

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Monday, July 25, 2011 


Rents in Burj Khalifa, the tallest tower in the world, have fallen by almost 25 per cent in the first half of 2011 compared to last year, as unit owners prefer to rent rather than sell at lower prices.

According to Harbor Real Estate, a studio, leased for Dh120,000 a year in 2010, is now being rented for Dh90,000, while Elysian Real Estate puts studio rents in the range of Dh75,000-Dh85,000.

One beds, as per Harbor data, are available for Dh120,000 as compared to Dh160,000 pa in 2010; two-beds can be rented for Dh180,000 (Dh240,000), while three- and four- beds are available for Dh240,000 (Dh300,000) and Dh320,000 (Dh350,000), respectively.

Elysian’s data reveals one-beds are being rented for between Dh110,000 and Dh120,000 compared to Dh130,000-Dh140,000 last year; two-beds are being leased for Dh140,000-Dh210,000 (Dh180,000-Dh240,000), three-beds start from Dh270,000-Dh300,000 (Dh300,00-Dh350,000), while four-beds, which are rare to market, remain at around Dh550,000-Dh650,000.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...iscount-than-sell-at-loss-2011-07-25-1.409438


----------



## Flintbug

Thanks Chipmunk/Imre. 

I only want to stay legitimate as I have a good tenant who simply wants to renew on the same conditions but he doesn't want to pay the agency fees again and neither do I!

Because the apartment was registered by the original agents first, will there be any difficulty in renewing either by myself or someone else? If another professional agent did it for me is there a minimum fee - I can't see a simple extension being that difficult if done online.


----------



## Rob Timpie

Isn't this message funny. Project is on hold en completion date is May 2010...


Dear Mr. Timmermans,

Hope this email finds you well.
Foremost, we thank you for investing with us. Your cooperation as well as the unending support that you have given to us is deeply appreciated.

Referred to your unit 1811 in Champions Tower IV, we are pleased to inform you that the construction has commenced for the said project after the renegotiation with the contractor. We believe that the recent photos were already sent to you by Ms. Rose. We have just received the update from RERA and the same is attached herein. Please find the same as per your kind perusal.

As the Project has now commenced on the site for construction, we are again in request for your cooperation in order to have a guaranteed speedy construction and that this *Project will be completed as per the given completion date. In regards to this, we would like to ask for your understanding as we require liquidity of funds for construction. *Enlisted below are the ESCROW Account details for your reference as well as your unit details.

_(info Escrow and apartment)_

Anticipating for your kind understanding and cooperation on this. In case you require any assistance, feel free to contact us on the given details below.

Thank you very much and have a good day!

With kind regards,

Marjorie Meejay Pilar
Executive – Client Relations 
Memon Investments LLC


----------



## Chipmunk

Flintbug said:


> Thanks Chipmunk/Imre.
> 
> I only want to stay legitimate as I have a good tenant who simply wants to renew on the same conditions but he doesn't want to pay the agency fees again and neither do I!
> 
> Because the apartment was registered by the original agents first, will there be any difficulty in renewing either by myself or someone else? If another professional agent did it for me is there a minimum fee - I can't see a simple extension being that difficult if done online.


Can you just make a contract yourself between you and the tenant? You can buy them at the typing places for about Dhs. 2 each. Make two copies. Then try to find an agent who will be willing to do the Ejari registration for you. It will cost them Dhs. 160 so perhaps paying around them Dhs. 250-300 would be a fair amount for service.


----------



## diku

Chipmunk said:


> Can you just make a contract yourself between you and the tenant? You can buy them at the typing places for about Dhs. 2 each. Make two copies. Then try to find an agent who will be willing to do the Ejari registration for you. It will cost them Dhs. 160 so perhaps paying around them Dhs. 250-300 would be a fair amount for service.


Do you have some reputed/known contacts for that?


----------



## Imre

diku said:


> Do you have some reputed/known contacts for that?


Better to ask some property management company , they can do it without problems, I think they ask around 300-350 Dhs.

When I get my Ejari certificate I can do it also as an owner representative but it cost a lot as you need a POA and if the owner is outside UAE the total cost of POA can be 2000-3000 Dhs.

Last time when I visited the RERA they said it will be a system for real estate companies/agents etc.. soon with easy registration process but that still not available.


----------



## Pleth

Can anybody explain to me what an Escrow account is legally?
Why should this be more safe than an ordinary account?

I am asking because I have heard that in a cancelled project that never took off, that our money in the Escrow account is almost gone.
I am affraid that the Land Department spent them. 
At RERA they are all covering up, nobody know anything they say, or maybe they are just pretending not to know! hno:


----------



## hessendubai

Hi Imre,sorry,what is the POA?Is the title-deed enough for the ejari-registration?


----------



## Imre

hessendubai said:


> Hi Imre,sorry,what is the POA?Is the title-deed enough for the ejari-registration?


POA = power of attorney (need to be attested with the Dubai Court as well)

Title deed (or other ownership certificate ) , tenancy contract and owner passport copy for the Ejari registration.


----------



## diku

Imre said:


> Better to ask some property management company , they can do it without problems, I think they ask around 300-350 Dhs.
> 
> When I get my Ejari certificate I can do it also as an owner representative but it cost a lot as you need a POA and if the owner is outside UAE the total cost of POA can be 2000-3000 Dhs.
> 
> Last time when I visited the RERA they said it will be a system for real estate companies/agents etc.. soon with easy registration process but that still not available.


Thanks Imre

POA for UAE resident is easy and costs 150Dh for typing and 60 Dh for court. It will take max 1 hour time if you go early in morning For non resident i am not sure.

Question for Ejari registration - No need for tenant PP + visa copy?


----------



## carpetking

diku said:


> Thanks Imre
> 
> POA for UAE resident is easy and costs 150Dh for typing and 60 Dh for court. It will take max 1 hour time if you go early in morning For non resident i am not sure.
> 
> Question for Ejari registration - No need for tenant PP + visa copy?



Its the same procedure,i hve done in 2008  the cost was about 300 Dhs


----------



## Imre

diku said:


> Thanks Imre
> 
> POA for UAE resident is easy and costs 150Dh for typing and 60 Dh for court. It will take max 1 hour time if you go early in morning For non resident i am not sure.
> 
> Question for Ejari registration - No need for tenant PP + visa copy?


If you are here is ok but how much will cost if you are in UK ?


----------



## diku

Imre said:


> If you are here is ok but how much will cost if you are in UK ?


I dont have any idea for that..hno:
May be same as you mentioned .....


----------



## axe2grind

*FORCED MAJEURE*

Its been a bit quiet on this thread for the past 6 weeks or so but I suppose thats to be expected with an alleged Force Majeure event affecting progress at site. In fact only movement of any kind has been the project management team heading for the basement (perhaps a real Force Majeure event is on the way) and Sunland vacating their sales office at the Gold and Diamond Park on SZR.hno:

There have been a few contributors putting some guesswork together as to when this project is likely to get started again but it doesn't need guesswork as the logical minds would know that it is going to be between 30 and 36 months when DEWA get round to installing the 132kV substation that Cultural Village needs to be fully operational.:bash::bash::bash:

Things have moved along a little recently with two important issues regarding Force Majeure being decided in the Civil Courts and at DIAC. Firstly, the Dubai Civil Courts have ruled that the world financial crisis is not a Force Majeure event, and, secondly, an investor at Dubai Marina has won an award against a defaulting developer for late completion despite the developer claiming Force Majeure for late delivery of infrastructure by the master developer. SOUND FAMILIAR. Remember an award at arbitration cannot be appealed!

The Genie is now out of the bottle as far as the use of FM as an excuse by developers for the delays that have bedevilled numerous projects in Dubai. One question that should be asked of Sunland is why have they waited until just before the end of the extended contractual completion date in the SAP Agreement (ie. June 2011) to state that the project is delayed due to Force Majeure when Dubai Properties walked off Cultural Village end of 2008. In other words they have known for nearly two and half years that they would not be able to complete the project without the infrastructure. Its been a cynical move on their part to deceive investors that everything is okay and demand payment or we'll cancel your contract due to payment default. Well Sunland should be aware that the UAE Civil Code protects both parties to a contract and in particular Article 247 of Federal Law 5 of 1985 applies if you refused to pay due to lack of progress. Any claim to a Force Majeure event should be made as soon as it was known and Sunland knew end of
2008. 

Anyone who has had their contract cancelled in this manner should seek legal advice and that applies to every project in Dubai not just this one. Sunland had no "Right" to claim FM when they did.

So what now for Palazzo Versace and Sunland. My view is that they will circle the wagons and continue to bluff their way through for a while until the mounting arbitration/litigation costs results in them divesting themselves of any involvement and heading back to the Gold Coast (remember White Bay). During Force Majeure their is no income only outgoings. Cost cutting has already commenced with the sales team going, what/who will be next?

Oh, nearly forgot, spellcheque please!!


----------



## Hanna

*Damac was found to be in breach of contract*

Damac was found to be in breach of contract by the DIFC Court
A Dubai court has issued an order against Damac Properties after it failed to obey a previous ruling to refund an Irish couple AED1.7m for a flat delayed for more than three years.

The Dubai developer was ordered to pay Noel and Lorna Gaffney a refund of AED1.7m ($463,000), plus legal costs of AED200,000, after a court found Damac was in breach of contract after failing to deliver the Park Towers apartment on schedule.

The company was given 14 days to issue the refund from June 21, but the couple’s lawyer said Wednesday that no payment has been made.

“It is disappointing, but not surprising given Damac’s track record, that despite the clear verdict of the court, Damac continues to drag its feet in making payment of the money rightfully due back to us," claimant Noel Gaffney said in a statement.

It’s understood DIFC Court has issued an interim charging order against the developer ordering it to comply with the ruling.

Kaashif Basit, a partner at KBH Kaanuun and counsel to the Gaffneys, said the couple may look to auction off the apartment if Damac refuses to pay.

“It is astonishing that Damac have not honoured the judgment,” he said. “I guess Damac will learn the hard way that it is not advisable to ignore court orders.”

The pair purchased the apartment, located in the Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC) free zone, in December 2004 on the understanding the unit would be delivered in early 2008.

The claimants paid around 90 percent of the AED1.9m purchase price, but delivery of the unit was delayed and the tower is only now nearing completion.

The pair notified Damac Park Towers they were terminating the contract in October 2010, citing breach of contract.

The decision offered hope to real estate investors in similar situations, said Basit, but he warned court rulings depended strongly on the contract in place.

Neither Damac nor its legal representatives 


:cheers:


----------



## Hanna

*Damac protesters call off Harrods demonstration Article*

Damac has run a month-long promotion at Harrods to rally interest in its Versace-branded Saudi properties Protesters calling for Damac to restart construction of Dubai's Palm Springs development called off a demonstration planned for outside Harrods in London on Monday.

The group of investors was planning to draw attention to the millions of dollars invested in the project back in 2003.Since then, no construction has taken place, no deposits have been returned, and there are no published plans for building work to resume.The protest group was demonstrating at Harrods, because the department store is hosting a sales drive for another luxury Damac development in Jeddah.It was called off at the last moment after a senior Damac official promised to meet the group on Wednesday, Arabian Business was told by a group of investors near Harrods.
But they will be on the streets with their placards "at one minute past midday on Wednesday if our concerns are not addressed," a spokesman, who asked not to be named, added.Announced during Dubai’s real estate boom, Palm Springs was designed to be a 25-storey beachfront development located on the Nakheel-owned Palm Jebel Ali island.
The offshore island stalled in the wake of the emirate’s real estate crash and is now designated by Nakheel as a “long-term project”. In March, the developer began offering its investors the option of a long-term refund or the chance to move to another Nakheel-backed Dubai development.
Damac had attempted to cancel the Palm Springs project in 2008, but the move was fought by the investor group through a series of demonstrations and meetings in the UK and Dubai, and the threat of legal action.
Damac later agreed to reinstate the development, and wrote to investors earlier this year to say it was in discussions with Nakheel, the master developer behind Palm Jebel Ali, and a decision on Palm Springs would be made in December.



Posted by: zxc 
Tuesday, 26 July 2011 2:37 PM[UAE] - UK 
IT WOULD STILL BE AGOOD IDEA TO GO AHEAD WITH THE PROTEST IN LONDON, AS IT DRAWS ATTENTION OF OTHER PROSPECTIVE BUYERS FROM DAMAC. DAMAC HAVE NOT DELIVERED WHAT THEY PROMISED IN DUBAI, AND THIS REMAINS A FACT. THEY SHOULD BE MADE TO PAY THE PENALITIES FOR THIS. THAT IS FAIR AND JUST. 

Reply to this comment.
Posted by: assif 
Tuesday, 26 July 2011 2:32 PM[UAE] - UAE 
i would like to know how to extract compensation from Damac who have delyed projects for 4 years. they did not cancel and now started building. meanwhile, the banks who loaned on these projects want their money back. and advices. 

Posted by: AM 
Tuesday, 26 July 2011 10:20 AM[UAE] - uk 
There is no smoke without a fire. I urge all potential investors in future Damac developments to simply do a web search to establish Damac's past history. There is so much negative publicity on the web, mostly based on investor personal experience, that the conclusion is undeniable. 

Posted by: Wile E Coyote 
Tuesday, 26 July 2011 10:19 AM[UAE] - United Kingdom 
Be very wary. The only reason they are building in Dubai at all is to cross a certain threshold of construction, whereupon RERA will allow them to keep monies deposited, and they will stop building. They are meeting with you here in London only to offset the bad press that has appeared. Keep the demonstrations up as this is the only chance you have. 


Posted by: Basel A-Shaban 
Tuesday, 26 July 2011 10:18 AM[UAE] - USA 
Take'em to a London court. There are enough evidence and witnesses that will make all those real estate developers that took money from investors realize they are not the untouchables. Damac will give nothing but the run around. Been there, done that. 


:cheers:


----------



## propertypalmjumeirah

To prepare a POA in Uk will cost you about a 1,000 pounds

in Dubai its cheap. You may as well fly over and do it in Dubai as you can make a small holiday of it and it will cost you about the same.


----------



## dubai_pearl

propertypalmjumeirah said:


> To prepare a POA in Uk will cost you about a 1,000 pounds
> 
> in Dubai its cheap. You may as well fly over and do it in Dubai as you can make a small holiday of it and it will cost you about the same.


That's bollocks. I got my done from a solicitor in uk who specilises in notary public and he also got his branch in london to attested it at UAE Embasy. Cost me £200, plus AED 300 from a real estate agent in dubai to attest it in Dubai courts.


----------



## msamre

why don't you try to consolidate your efforts and go to meet with RERA and DMCC


----------



## foxy

Cost me even less.

£80 solicitors, £30 Commonwealth Office, £20 UAE embassy, £10 post. Total £140.

Used good old Royal Mail for post. As far as I know Exclusive havn't charged me (yet?) for their bits.


----------



## msamre

I have a friend of mine who bought in Gate one and 1 year before handover he had a chance to refund 70% of what he paid to the developer.. is that possible with Gate 2


----------



## jasper1000

thanks for the update. is any work being done on site

Cheers


----------



## daniel_hermès

No good news for this guys  I´m new in skyscrapercity and I was trying to see if the icons work :cheers:


----------



## mpat

kfhwa said:


> All the investors of Rufi Twin Tower living in Dubai can ask Rufi to provide us the completion date December,2012 in contract form(In writing). If they are honest about this statement then they should not be worried about issuing such statement in writing. I am sure that there are some consequences of plying these games. Investors living in Dubai may know according to the local laws about the consequences of such unfair games and who should we report it to?




(1) work at site is stopped due to non pmnt of dues by Rufi,
(2) they r not planning to complete before 2013 dec.
(3) and there will b no refund also.....

JUST WAIT & WEAP....


----------



## Winded

Surprise surprise a response to my complaint and request for compensation. There is also a phone number to give then grief (if they answer it!) ;

At the moment, our main goal is to restart construction work as soon as possible and finish the tower so we don’t want to raise/to be involved in any new disputes like interests or penalties…. because we believe it does not help the project now…


Faithfully yours,

Customer Service Department

“Wind One Inc.” and “Wind Two Inc.”

P.O. Box: 500030, Dubai-UAE

Tel: +971-4-4468620

+971-4-4468630

Fax: +971-4-4468610

www.windtowers.net


----------



## wittyman

*Help needed for sale procedures*

Hi all forumers,

I am about to sell an apartment. The buyer's realtor wants me to sign a Sale / Purchase Agrreement upfront. 

The SPA sets a certain date as "transfer date" on which the transfer will be done at the Land Department. The seller will be liable for damages if all formalities / documents (NOC, Original SPA Title Deed, DEWA clearance etc) are not completed or made ready at the transfer date. 

The apartment is rented out and the title deed is not yet received. I feel that I'd better first make all ready and then sign the SPA. I think it would be more proper to sign a Memorandum of Understanding in the interim, to make the buyer sure that the sale will be done. 

The buyer's realtor claims MOU and the SPA are the same, but I doubt it has to be so.

Any help in this regard will be highly appreciated. I will also be glad if anybody can send samples for the MOU and the SPA

Thanks for all who will provide his / her kind help.


----------



## OmarFromFrance

mpat said:


> (1) work at site is stopped due to non pmnt of dues by Rufi,
> (2) they r not planning to complete before 2013 dec.
> (3) and there will b no refund also.....
> 
> JUST WAIT & WEAP....


Hi,

How did you get this information? Did you speak with Rufi? Recently they have said that the building would be completed before Dec 2012

it's an endless story hno:
Regards,
Omar


----------



## mpat

OmarFromFrance said:


> Hi,
> 
> How did you get this information? Did you speak with Rufi? Recently they have said that the building would be completed before Dec 2012
> 
> it's an endless story hno:
> Regards,
> Omar




Yes, I did went there to see them personally,. . . . unfortunately no hope but to sue them.

I sai that I dont hope that u will finish before 2015 and the guy said, may be. HA HA HAH ... funny but true.

regards,


----------



## 234sale

Not true... though I haven't dealt with agents recently..

What ever is agreed by both parties, forms the contract..

I would suggest, let a advocate deal with the contract side,, it may cost you up to 5k but you get peace of mind..


----------



## Imre

wittyman said:


> Hi all forumers,
> 
> I am about to sell an apartment. The buyer's realtor wants me to sign a Sale / Purchase Agrreement upfront.
> 
> The SPA sets a certain date as "transfer date" on which the transfer will be done at the Land Department. The seller will be liable for damages if all formalities / documents (NOC, Original SPA Title Deed, DEWA clearance etc) are not completed or made ready at the transfer date.
> 
> The apartment is rented out and the title deed is not yet received. I feel that I'd better first make all ready and then sign the SPA. I think it would be more proper to sign a Memorandum of Understanding in the interim, to make the buyer sure that the sale will be done.
> 
> The buyer's realtor claims MOU and the SPA are the same, but I doubt it has to be so.
> 
> Any help in this regard will be highly appreciated. I will also be glad if anybody can send samples for the MOU and the SPA
> 
> Thanks for all who will provide his / her kind help.


No need SPA, MOU is enough for the transfer.

Also no need to wait for the title deed , that can be a longer process, sometimes 1-2 months or even more , better to do the OQOOD registration first ( if you dont have) and Land Department will do the transfer , after the new buyer will get the title deed.

If you already have the OQOOD its easy , dont forget to make an appointment with the Land Department for the transfer.

If you sign the MOU , buyer has to provide 10% deposit cheque issued your name and the agency will keep it till the transfer ...your agent should know the process 

I dont think so that you need a lawyer for it, just waste of money.


----------



## Imre

wittyman said:


> I will also be glad if anybody can send samples for the MOU and the SPA


All agents have own MOU's , ask them to send a draft and you can check it .


----------



## jasper1000

Just got the following from Dec

Dear Sir/ Madam, 
We thank you for your continued patronage to our above project at Jumeriah Village and would like to update you with the project progress till date.
Pleased be informed you that we have completed the Raft Foundation. Please find attached consultant’s certificate.
For further details, please refer to our website www.dheerajeastcoast.com
We shall be sharing with you further updates on the project from time to time.
Thank you once again for your cooperation


----------



## Beppe786

Emirates NBD bank help,, i opened a saving account back in 2008, they charge me 75aed every month TRANSFER RELATIONSHIP MAINTENANCE FEE dont know why?

account hasnt been used in over a year so Dormant account, but they still charge me a fee.. now the account is going in negative.. 

anyone from dubai help whats going on? is that the standard fee per month ? is there a min balance amount?


----------



## Porcello

Beppe786 said:


> Emirates NBD bank help,, i opened a saving account back in 2008, they charge me 75aed every month TRANSFER RELATIONSHIP MAINTENANCE FEE dont know why?
> 
> account hasnt been used in over a year so Dormant account, but they still charge me a fee.. now the account is going in negative..
> 
> anyone from dubai help whats going on? is that the standard fee per month ?


There used to be a monthly fee if your balance was less that the minimum balance amount (5000 AED). Starting 1st of May the central bank has made this fee illegal, so now nothing will be taken as maintenance fee even if your balance is zero. However, since you are in red, now they will charge some other kind of fee or interest... if you want to keep the account, you have at least to cover the debt, and no more money will be deducted.

However, an account will become dormant if you don't make any transaction for six month; when the account is dormant, you have to go to the branch to reactivate it.


----------



## Beppe786

thanks for the help.. dont know when ill be in dubai next too activate it.. hopefully i could still transfer some money into it to get it outa the red..

account has been dormant for a while and they still been charging me a fee..


----------



## Imre

Porcello said:


> There used to be a monthly fee if your balance was less that the minimum balance amount (5000 AED). Starting 1st of May the central bank has made this fee illegal, so now nothing will be taken as maintenance fee even if your balance is zero. However, since you are in red, now they will charge some other kind of fee or interest... if you want to keep the account, you have at least to cover the debt, and no more money will be deducted.
> 
> However, an account will become dormant if you don't make any transaction for six month; when the account is dormant, you have to go to the branch to reactivate it.


Minimum balance now 3000 AED and the maintenance fee(they call "fee for non-maintenance of balance") is 25 AED/month if the average balance is less then 3000.


----------



## propertymagnet

Mistermark said:


> Anyone visiting Croydon has my sympathies, even in normal times. But today it's like a war zone.


Its just awful.......And its getting worse..Bring in the army that what i say!


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> New tax again, but this time coming from EU. Airline passengers flying to and from Europe will have to pay a new tax starting from 2012.
> And when EU now think they have the right to invent new taxes as well as each EU country, where will this all end?
> http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,777169,00.html


You need to be prepared for more wealth taxes. Governments need to find ways to deprive the wealthy amoung us of our hard earned cash. The Western economies are bust.

When I read 234Sales post last week about selling gold I was very surprised. I though he was predicting the bottom of the stock market, selling his gold and buying shares. Look at the difference a week has made. More doom and gloom news stories about the economy and London is burning. The yobs obviously blaming the state of the footsie for their discontentment:lol:


----------



## Beppe786

deleted


----------



## Beppe786

propertymagnet said:


> Its just awful.......And its getting worse..Bring in the army that what i say!


when gaddafi bought in the army on his people it was wrong... now lets see if they bring in the army and see if its right or wrong!


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

...eeh, Gaddafi brought the army in to put down his citizens while UK bringing in the army in to save their citizens.


----------



## HappyLarry

True Blue said:


> You need to be prepared for more wealth taxes. Governments need to find ways to deprive the wealthy amoung us of our hard earned cash. The Western economies are bust.
> 
> When I read 234Sales post last week about selling gold I was very surprised. I though he was predicting the bottom of the stock market, selling his gold and buying shares. Look at the difference a week has made. More doom and gloom news stories about the economy and London is burning. The yobs obviously blaming the state of the footsie for their discontentment:lol:


Experts are predicting Gold to hit $2300 and eventually settle around $3000. I am no expert, just who I subscribe to! 
So under the current circumstances, selling Gold to buy paper seems like a dumb idea.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ The way I see it: High yielding property is a better investment than gold as it produces income. Once the debt is repaid you have a continuous passive income that typically increases with inflation. Any capital value is a bonus. Gold is good if you have spare cash, it should increase in value over time (due to its rarity) so better than putting cash in a bank where it will depreciate with inflation and almost 0% interest.


----------



## FWIW

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ The way I see it: High yielding property is a better investment than gold as it produces income. Once the debt is repaid you have a continuous passive income that typically increases with inflation. Any capital value is a bonus. Gold is good if you have spare cash, it should increase in value over time (due to its rarity) so better than putting cash in a bank where it will depreciate with inflation and almost 0% interest.


Hang on - I thought you were working on a gold producing machine that ran on sunlight? :banana:

:lol:


----------



## MarkWass

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> ...eeh, Gaddafi brought the army in to put down his citizens while UK bringing in the army in to save their citizens.


Apart from many far worse things I could say, it’s all just so pathetic and embarrassing for 99.99999% of the UK. The people of Libya were fighting for justice. These ‘looters’ in the UK are not protesting against anything. They are simply opportunistic criminals (mainly kids) doing it for sadistic ‘fun’ and to steal electrical goods and all sorts of other stuff.


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> I badly need a hair cut Imre, when can you fit me in?


Next time I will invited to my barber, I have been using the same saloon since 2004 , great service , free tea and only 25 Dhs for hair cut


----------



## gerald.d

Imre said:


> Next time I will invited to my barber, I have been using the same saloon since 2004 , great service , free tea and only 25 Dhs for hair cut


I've seen the results though. 

:lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

FWIW said:


> Hang on - I thought you were working on a gold producing machine that ran on sunlight? :banana:
> 
> :lol:


Having a bit of trouble with that one. Instead of trying to knock protons out of lead, I am trying to borrow protons from metals with lower atomic numbers to make gold. The prototype is in my garage. :cheers:


----------



## Mistermark

Beppe786 said:


> when gaddafi bought in the army on his people it was wrong... now lets see if they bring in the army and see if its right or wrong!


There's a bit of a difference. The Libyan people were demonstrating because they wanted rid of a vicious and corrupt dictator. The people of Croydon and many other urban areas in the UK live in a democracy where they can express their views and influence policy peacefully but instead they are looting premises and attacking buildings and the police.


----------



## australia2011

Hi everyone. Thankyou so much for the effort that has been put in this forum. Without this forum those liers at rufi will keep lieing to us. Thank god for this. I have spent all my money and put it on the apartment in rufi twin towers and nothing is happening. Can you please tell me what is going on.


----------



## australia2011

If the apartments are finished we couldve rented the apartments who is going to be responsible. This is so crazy. I regret investing in dubai. Im so crazy i wish i invested in australia. They are not going to see one more cent of me anymore. I have paid 90% of the apartment and its not even close to completion. Can you please update me with what is going on. Thanks guys for all the effort that you have put in this forum. I will be waiting for your reply asap. We all need to work together.


----------



## Towers3

australia2011 said:


> Hi everyone. Thankyou so much for the effort that has been put in this forum. Without this forum those liers at rufi will keep lieing to us. Thank god for this. I have spent all my money and put it on the apartment in rufi twin towers and nothing is happening. Can you please tell me what is going on.


Hi: 

If


----------



## sidxb

Mistermark said:


> There's a bit of a difference. The Libyan people were demonstrating because they wanted rid of a vicious and corrupt dictator. The people of Croydon and many other urban areas in the UK live in a democracy where they can express their views and influence policy peacefully but instead they are looting premises and attacking buildings and the police.


I agree , there is a difference. I believe that the world should interfere to stop the rising wave of *terrorism* in London. It seems government has lost control and terrorists are ruling the streets during last 3 days.


----------



## speculator

propertymagnet said:


> Its just awful.......And its getting worse..Bring in the army that what i say!


No army here.The army fixing the rest of the world without invitation.hno:

Your country needs you right now !!!


----------



## Nataelchibek

Hey whats you number let me know when are you going my number 0501537308


----------



## Nataelchibek

PLEASE IF YOU ARE IN DUBAI WE NEED TO GO TO RERA TOGETHER..LETS MAKE APPOINTMENT....


----------



## Pleth

FWIW said:


> Would you ban niqab or burka then? Like France?


In Denmark niqab and burka are not banned. But looters cover ups are banned. 
And also a knife is a weapon in Denmark, you are not allowed to carry it around.

True Blue: I totally agree with you about the press. Here in Dubai I have Euro News, a very neutral and informative station.


----------



## sgn7200

wissam11 said:


> Gents, new developments
> I think DEC is out of Lawns projects.
> I went by yesterday and took these photos
> It seems Lawns 4 and 5 are combined into one project now.
> The sign boards are on the same plot
> Progress is upto the ground floor on the Lawns 4 side
> Ofcourse, as usual, DEC is not answering questions
> 
> www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.171234529612425&type=1
> 
> (click on the link, as actual address is not the same as the text)


Hello Wissam11
Can you please do us a favour and visit Lawns 5 and tell us if you can see some activity. During my recent stop-over in Dubai, I paid a flying visit to the site of Lawns 5. Although it was dark, I think there were some signs of some activity. Can you please visit the site and tell us whether there is anything real going on or was I just looking at some shadows. Cheers.


----------



## Imre

These people really know what are they doing 
































































from facebook.com


----------



## True Blue

^^Imre, my sides are sore laughing:lol:

This is just a classic, it's the expression on his face.


----------



## gerald.d

More here where that lot originally came from:

http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/


----------



## Imre

Great pics, police seems totally useless there .


----------



## Imre

gerald.d said:


> More here where that lot originally came from:
> 
> http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/












:lol::lol:


----------



## smussuw

:laugh: :laugh:


----------



## ummbutti

Thank you all ...

Here are some important emails in addition to what Sgn mentioned above :


Essa Saeed Ahmed Al Mansoori ,Head of Trust Accounts section [[email protected]] 

khawla Mohammed Ali abdulla [[email protected]]

Ahmed Khaleid Ahmed Obeidat [[email protected]]

Join Us please ....


----------



## bizzybonita

walk like an egyptian !!!


----------



## FWIW

Philippa C said:


> Actually I'm not in favour of any kind of face coverings for a number of reasons and think it's better that they be banned. WRT the burqa, my husband is muslim and no where in the quran is it stated as a requirement that a woman's face be covered. When women go to Mecca they can't cover their face when doing Umrah - I think that says it all really.


Thanks for your response. I am not a Muslim and was unaware of Umrah - my point of view is more the us declaration of independence and where it states that everyone should be allowed to pursue their own happiness. I worry that by removing such freedoms little by little we will lose our liberty that our forefathers earned through much sacrifice. I fear that George orwell's 1984 is getting nearer everyday and the scenes from London could be taken from the movie V for Vendetta. There is no easy answer to all of this.


----------



## Philippa C

I can see your point of view. I'm concerned that in making allowances for everyone's rights, we, particularly in Western democratic nations, will end up giving ground on rights we now take for granted and which were won after a great deal of time and effort. This is particularly so in the area of women's rights. 

I won't say anymore on this subject as it's not the right forum; Dubai does seem to do a pretty good balancing act of accommodating all comers


----------



## speculator

FWIW said:


> Thanks for your response. I am not a Muslim and was unaware of Umrah - my point of view is more the us declaration of independence and where it states that everyone should be allowed to pursue their own happiness. I worry that by removing such freedoms little by little we will lose our liberty that our forefathers earned through much sacrifice. I fear that George orwell's 1984 is getting nearer everyday and the scenes from London could be taken from the movie V for Vendetta. There is no easy answer to all of this.


I am a Muslim. I understand your view but don't you think that the veil actually suppresses the freedoms you discuss ? It has no place in Islam and no place in this world but by the same token neither does walking around half dressed. The veil is not obligatory and is not discussed in the Koran. You ask any woman about her pursuit of happiness and I can tell you the veil wont be a priority. 

Sorry Mods if this is getting off subject


----------



## Ahmed N

Hi, Does anyone know what going on? Is there any progress. Are they still working on the project. I have asked ACI for update - no reply from them. 

Can some one tell me what floor they have reached - are they likely to reach 30th floor by mid September?

Please give us some news...hno:


----------



## Philippa C

Speculator, I think FWIW was actually advocating letting people wear what they like and was against imposing a ban on any particular items of dress they wished.


----------



## ashram8

Will try to visit the site on thursday and will leave update on the forum. I am not too optimistic. ACI has always been a source of frustrating news or no news at all. I am surprised y they have gone silent yet again. They must have cheated the contractor like they cheated us. We will see. I hope to come back with good news.


----------



## Towers3

Hi: 

Are you an investor? Are all these updates good news? Are the Developers just building with six workers or demanding more money? The Elite buildings are the same Developer? 

http://triplanet.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/triplanet-elite-sports-city-dubai/

http://triplanet.wordpress.com/about/


----------



## Romeo Delta

*Our Rights ?*

Dear All,
we can keep our commitments for the payments but what about ACI to keep its commitment? The agreement has a penalty clause.
I have suffered huge losses with the delay and lost my ability to trust anyone. We all should meet for a group meeting to discuss the future of the project and get commitment from RERA & the Developer. any thoughts keep me posted....
Regards.





W40arx said:


> Guys, we need to fulfil our end of the deal which is to comply with the terms outlined in our contracts i.e. make our
> 
> payments on the agreed completion dates. Now we have to evaluate the pros and cons of making payments; make the payment for the 30th floor and hope that the construction will continue (most of us have paid 80% anyway), or do not make payment and risk our investments being repossessed and lose monies that we have paid to date.
> 
> Risk is either way. I don't feel to pay anymore than I have done already but seems as though most of us have no choice.
> 
> Regards


----------



## S_CHAIB

Hello,
I am from France, I plan to move to Dubai, I have a project which can give a good profits. The project (transportation domain) will concern the development of three wheels vehicle (electrical and traditional engine), the European need of this kind of vehicle is very important.
I would like to know if it easy to find funding for such a project in UAE (Dubai, …)
If you would like to have more details, then please contact me.
Thank you


----------



## gerald.d

S_CHAIB said:


> Hello,
> I am from France, I plan to move to Dubai, I have a project which can give a good profits. The project (transportation domain) will concern the development of three wheels vehicle (electrical and traditional engine), the European need of this kind of vehicle is very important.
> I would like to know if it easy to find funding for such a project in UAE (Dubai, …)
> If you would like to have more details, then please contact me.
> Thank you


French people, and in particular, French people with ideas for projects in the transportation domain which can give a good profits, have had tremendous success in Dubai in the past.

Best of luck :cheers: :banana:


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> ^^Unless you have something better to move your money to.
> 
> I used to earn around 20% Gross ROI in Dubai, now it is around 13%. Where else am I guaranteed that return with the real possibility of capital growth lurking around the corner?
> 
> A change in your portfolio of property might help you. I think you bought a few in Disco Gardens and some office units if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> Office space might be a good hold soon as when the confidence returns so will the new businesses. Office tenants generally want longer term contracts.


20% gross!!!! **** u.


----------



## glover

cash buyers in dubai, yes, but these cash buyers were international investors who got their finance from their home country (second mortgages, personal loans, etc.) and channeled the funds into the dubai real estate market.
in reality, there were very very few real cash buyers in dubai during the boom years.



TerryPop said:


> Glover, dubai never really had cheap finance did it?


----------



## True Blue

TerryPop said:


> 20% gross!!!! **** u.


^^Nice!

I bought at average 700AED/ft (7AED/£)and rent out at the higher end of the market(converting back at 6AED/£).

You really want to cringe, my mortgage is only 0.67%. Has been for over 2 years now. 

I invested hundreds of thousands of GBP in a major UK bank pension fund so not everything is rosey in the garden.

All of the money I invested with the help of so called financial advisors has tanked and the investments are essentially dead money.

All of the investments I set up myself have outperformed the markets by atleast 100%. Lets you see how much they rip you off with charges and profit creaming.


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> ^^Nice!
> 
> I bought at average 700AED/ft (7AED/£)and rent out at the higher end of the market(converting back at 6AED/£).
> 
> You really want to cringe, my mortgage is only 0.67%. Has been for over 2 years now.
> 
> I invested hundreds of thousands of GBP in a major UK bank pension fund so not everything is rosey in the garden.
> 
> All of the money I invested with the help of so called financial advisors has tanked and the investments are essentially dead money.
> 
> All of the investments I set up myself have outperformed the markets by atleast 100%. Lets you see how much they rip you off with charges and profit creaming.



Thats like free money.....:banana:

Imagine you get borrowing at 0.67% and investing at 13% net....

Feel an arbitrage coming on? lol 

Congrats- nice to hear someone crawling out of the Dubai mess in good shape!


----------



## TerryPop

glover said:


> cash buyers in dubai, yes, but these cash buyers were international investors who got their finance from their home country (second mortgages, personal loans, etc.) and channeled the funds into the dubai real estate market.
> in reality, there were very very few real cash buyers in dubai during the boom years.


Glover are Brits & Westerners the largest buyers in the Dubai property market?

If the largest group of buyers is actually locals and GCC then, the largest group of buyers in Dubai have never had access to 'silly' cheap credit?


----------



## glover

that's another misperception. few locals bought into the property boom in dubai, and the ones who did, most did it through finance (like Tamweel). For GCC buyers, and I am from Kuwait BTW, the great majority of buyers had access to easy finance in their home country, through personal loans, mortgaging their homes, using stock holdings as collateral for cash, using companies they own to obtain loans, etc. that's why the GCC stock markets crashed after the 2008 financial crisis, like the rest of the world, even with all the natural resources. Too much debt caused by easy access to cash!!! 



TerryPop said:


> Glover are Brits & Westerners the largest buyers in the Dubai property market?
> 
> If the largest group of buyers is actually locals and GCC then, the largest group of buyers in Dubai have never had access to 'silly' cheap credit?


----------



## gerald.d

TerryPop said:


> Glover are Brits & Westerners the largest buyers in the Dubai property market?
> 
> If the largest group of buyers is actually locals and GCC then, the largest group of buyers in Dubai have never had access to 'silly' cheap credit?


Might be wrong, but I believe it's Indians, then Iranians, then Brits.


----------



## Philippa C

I'm interested to know how many more villas are coming online. I can only really think of Jumeriah Park and Furjan? Jumeriah Golf Estates seems at a standstill. If there are only a few more villa developments to be handed over maybe we have reached the bottom for villas.


----------



## lazy daisy

I have some cash sitting around waiting to do something with. Sometime ago I promised myself I would never buy again Dubai but its starting to look interesting again especially since the rest of the world is in a bigger mess. 

So can you guys recommend any good locations and buildings. Should I buy a small villa or a 2 bed apartment. My budget could be streteched to 1.2 or should I go for 2 studios for the money. 

If I get it right then maybe I can achieve the same returns as TB.

I have been away from the Dubai market and totally out of touch.

My goal is income so are they rentals strong or still suffering void periods. Will it deteriorate further.

Suggestions please.


----------



## TerryPop

Philippa C said:


> I'm interested to know how many more villas are coming online. I can only really think of Jumeriah Park and Furjan? Jumeriah Golf Estates seems at a standstill. If there are only a few more villa developments to be handed over maybe we have reached the bottom for villas.


I remember having a choice of investing 3 million dirhams in Jumeirah Island Villas or commercial space back in 2006.

The Villas were selling for 1.8m to 2.2m 

You could see that they were going to settle at 3-4 million based on surrounding area... 

Should have should have should have.

As it is they are all in the 5 mill + range....


----------



## TerryPop

lazy daisy said:


> I have some cash sitting around waiting to do something with. Sometime ago I promised myself I would never buy again Dubai but its starting to look interesting again especially since the rest of the world is in a bigger mess.
> 
> So can you guys recommend any good locations and buildings. Should I buy a small villa or a 2 bed apartment. My budget could be streteched to 1.2 or should I go for 2 studios for the money.
> 
> If I get it right then maybe I can achieve the same returns as TB.
> 
> I have been away from the Dubai market and totally out of touch.
> 
> My goal is income so are they rentals strong or still suffering void periods. Will it deteriorate further.
> 
> Suggestions please.




Check out the X cluster studios and 1 beds in JLT, they are selling for a price that brings tenants in at around the 7 per cent net yield mark.

Upside potential as the place fills out and JLT is proving itself- landscaping coming on well, and plenty of people now want to live there.


Also everyone I know in the renting game has 100% occupancy in residential just need to be at market price- so you shouldn't suffer huge voids.


----------



## True Blue

lazy daisy said:


> I have some cash sitting around waiting to do something with. Sometime ago I promised myself I would never buy again Dubai but its starting to look interesting again especially since the rest of the world is in a bigger mess.
> 
> So can you guys recommend any good locations and buildings. Should I buy a small villa or a 2 bed apartment. My budget could be streteched to 1.2 or should I go for 2 studios for the money.
> 
> If I get it right then maybe I can achieve the same returns as TB.
> 
> I have been away from the Dubai market and totally out of touch.
> 
> My goal is income so are they rentals strong or still suffering void periods. Will it deteriorate further.
> 
> Suggestions please.


My tip:

Have a serious look at Silverene in the marina, due to come online soon. For your budget you could get a couple of studios or small 1 beds that will be easy to rent. If you get away with buying at original price then you should make 10% gross easy. Service charges will be sensible and long term investment will be a very safe bet as it is a well build development in a prime waterfront location.


----------



## lazy daisy

Thanks guys. Silverene looks good as well as the projects in JLT but any pointers for 2 beds for my budget. I already have some 1 beds in Marina and 2 beds in Abudhabi. Prefer a 2 bed this time in Dubai ???

What about a 2 bed in the springs but then the rentals are around 90 ish. Not a fantastic return.

Thanks so much.


----------



## Imre

lazy daisy said:


> What about a 2 bed in the springs but then the rentals are around 90 ish. Not a fantastic return.


Type 4M you can get for 1.2 m but the rental only 80-85K there, not the best rental income.


----------



## Philippa C

TerryPop said:


> I remember having a choice of investing 3 million dirhams in Jumeirah Island Villas or commercial space back in 2006.
> 
> The Villas were selling for 1.8m to 2.2m
> 
> You could see that they were going to settle at 3-4 million based on surrounding area...
> 
> Should have should have should have.
> 
> As it is they are all in the 5 mill + range....


Yes, I remember when they were released; a friend of ours bought one. Do you think they are going to fall in price back to 3-4mil?


----------



## TerryPop

Philippa C said:


> Yes, I remember when they were released; a friend of ours bought one. Do you think they are going to fall in price back to 3-4mil?


As the other villas get handed over, they'll be more supply- but the new communities won't look or feel established.

Half built communities could make completed and manicured spots (like Jumeirah Islands) look more desirable.

So yes probably will have a negative affect but may be limited by variables mentioned above imo.

Anyway as a landlord it is sooooooooooo much easier dealing with apartments then villas.


----------



## beer51

Hi TerryPop/All

What's your opinion on Discovery Garden as an investment, capital appreciation, rental etc.


----------



## TerryPop

beer51 said:


> Hi TerryPop/All
> 
> What's your opinion on Discovery Garden as an investment, capital appreciation, rental etc.


When we took them on in early 2009 rents had collapsed from 70-90k per year to 55-65k 

We had been billed 30k in service charges per unit to boot- I thought it can't get any worse ... haha

Then rents settled, until JLT made a significant impact.

In the space of 6 months as JLT started numerous handovers the rents slipped again to mid to late 40,000's.

I thought it was a completely f*cked imvestment.

This year rents dipped to 35-40,000 and I noticed they are moving back into the mid 40,000 range now ish.

(we have done back to back rentals- one in and one out- at this level- and in recent months).


The thing that has changed everything is that the service charges have been dramatically cut.

This has made an extremely bad investment less so for us.

But at current market prices for 1 bed units, you could be yielding a net of 6 to 7%.

In my view they are still well located in an area that will eventually find its feet.

I would say that tho 


----just want to add:

they are really large, comfortable apartments- and everything that could be done to drive the price down has been done 

no landscaping, no pools, no security, bachelors using buildings etc etc

So this is as beaten up as it can be and its still got potentially good yields- This could imply there may be some upside you never know!

(pretty easy to manage too)


----------



## Imre

TerryPop said:


> no landscaping, no pools, no security, bachelors using buildings etc etc


Usually studios for 8 people , 1 Br for 10-15  I had friends there but moved out , some buildings already terrible.

I think it will be similar as the International City soon, only bachelors will be there and rent will go down again.

Better to forget now..


----------



## TerryPop

Imre said:


> Usually studios for 8 people , 1 Br for 10-15  I had friends there but moved out , some buildings already terrible.
> 
> I think it will be similar as the International City soon, only bachelors will be there and rent will go down again.
> 
> Better to forget now..


Yeah forgot to mention we have 27 people in each unit on a 12hr rotation basis.

Thanks for the photos Imre


----------



## TerryPop

*nakheel phoenix ashes viagra*

Jumeirah Park and Discovery Gardens to get community retail centres

The Jumeirah Park retail centre will provide 50,000 square feet of retail area, while Discovery Gardens retail center will offer 140,000 square feet of retail space. Construction on both the centres is likely to start from first half of 2012.







_The Jumeirah Park shopping center will provide 50,000 square feet for stores serving both the Jumeirah Park and Jumeirah Island communities. In Discovery Gardens, the 140,000 square foot project will include stores and a recreation center_


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> You are calling me a no brainer?? :madwife:


Oops!! Not intentionally sweetheart.

Oh dear, more dinners for one for me.:laugh:


----------



## Imre

*
Damac Properties offer cash refund options to Palm Springs investors*

Options include 70% refund in two weeks, or 100% with 25% paid in two weeks and rest at 25% over three years

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Tuesday, August 23, 2011 

In an effort to end the stalemate with investors of Palm Springs project in Palm Jebel Ali, Damac Properties has offered them cash refund options, 'Emirates 24|7' can reveal.

Investors claim that company executives of the Dubai-based developer, who recently met them, offered the options of cash refund at 70 per cent within two weeks, or 100 per cent with 25 per cent paid within two weeks and the rest paid at 25 per cent over the three subsequent years.

Although the developer did not respond to our queries, Niall McLoughlin, Senior Vice-President Corporate Communication, Damac Properties, in an emailed statement, said: “Damac is fully committed to working with Palm Springs Investors to bring closure to this issue.”

http://www.emirates247.com/property...to-palm-springs-investors-2011-08-23-1.414652


----------



## FWIW

Imre said:


> Damac Properties offer cash refund options to Palm Springs investors
> 
> Options include 70% refund in two weeks, or 100% with 25% paid in two weeks and rest at 25% over three years
> 
> By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Tuesday, August 23, 2011
> 
> In an effort to end the stalemate with investors of Palm Springs project in Palm Jebel Ali, Damac Properties has offered them cash refund options, 'Emirates 24|7' can reveal.
> 
> Investors claim that company executives of the Dubai-based developer, who recently met them, offered the options of cash refund at 70 per cent within two weeks, or 100 per cent with 25 per cent paid within two weeks and the rest paid at 25 per cent over the three subsequent years.
> 
> Although the developer did not respond to our queries, Niall McLoughlin, Senior Vice-President Corporate Communication, Damac Properties, in an emailed statement, said: "Damac is fully committed to working with Palm Springs Investors to bring closure to this issue."
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/property/damac-properties-offer-cash-refund-options-to-palm-springs-investors-2011-08-23-1.414652


So palm springs was sold out in 2003 - you wait 8 years or so then get back 70% now or wait 11 years to get back 100%. I think Damac are having a giraffe with that. What about opportunity loss or any other compensation?


----------



## Imre

FWIW said:


> So palm springs was sold out in 2003 - you wait 8 years or so then get back 70% now or wait 11 years to get back 100%. I think Damac are having a giraffe with that. What about opportunity loss or any other compensation?


Few years ago they offered 100 % cash back but many owners refused the offer.

I think the compensation would be a long process as the delays is the master developer default.


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> Oops!! Not intentionally sweetheart.
> 
> Oh dear, more dinners for one for me.:laugh:


He he... Lost count on the beers... :cheers:


----------



## Pleth

TerryPop said:


> Jumeirah Park and Discovery Gardens to get community retail centres
> 
> The Jumeirah Park retail centre will provide 50,000 square feet of retail area, while Discovery Gardens retail center will offer 140,000 square feet of retail space. Construction on both the centres is likely to start from first half of 2012.


Nice. Since they built Discovery Gardens IBN Batuta is getting a bit too crowded especially Geant.


----------



## Pleth

Imre said:


> *
> Damac Properties offer cash refund options to Palm Springs investors*
> 
> Options include 70% refund in two weeks, or 100% with 25% paid in two weeks and rest at 25% over three years
> 
> By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Tuesday, August 23, 2011
> 
> In an effort to end the stalemate with investors of Palm Springs project in Palm Jebel Ali, Damac Properties has offered them cash refund options, 'Emirates 24|7' can reveal.
> 
> Investors claim that company executives of the Dubai-based developer, who recently met them, offered the options of cash refund at 70 per cent within two weeks, or 100 per cent with 25 per cent paid within two weeks and the rest paid at 25 per cent over the three subsequent years.
> 
> Although the developer did not respond to our queries, Niall McLoughlin, Senior Vice-President Corporate Communication, Damac Properties, in an emailed statement, said: “Damac is fully committed to working with Palm Springs Investors to bring closure to this issue.”
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/property...to-palm-springs-investors-2011-08-23-1.414652


Keep dreaming!


----------



## signm

any one selling seasons credit note email @
[email protected]


----------



## Philippa C

Pleth said:


> Nice. Since they built Discovery Gardens IBN Batuta is getting a bit too crowded especially Geant.


I wish they'd build the shopping center on the Palm like they promised.


----------



## True Blue

^^Palm is turning out to be a poor location if you want to live in Dubai. Alright if you are a short stop tourist

Seriously, the loss of the village centre and canal per the original model, it just has lost a lot of the wow and practicality of a luxury prime residential location. Some of the new developments are really nice but the full package is lacking.


----------



## True Blue

FWIW said:


> So palm springs was sold out in 2003 - you wait 8 years or so then get back 70% now or wait 11 years to get back 100%. I think Damac are having a giraffe with that. What about opportunity loss or any other compensation?


Would a commercial bank accept that attitude. Maybe I should try it with my mortgage provider see how long I keep my assets!

If they can't pay all now then they are insolvent and should be shut down!! That's how it works in the real world. Can't believe they are not offering a long term payback with interest. 

Why am I getting mad, I'm not a customer. Maybe it's because of what I saw happening everyday in Dubai. Read the signature Time I got my cape on and cleaned up the place:lol:


----------



## anacreon

I doubt if they'll be rushing ahead to get on with this one; probably just enough movement to keep the regulators from taking any action. 

I am sure that Select have their hands full for a while with handover of TT and completing Botanica and the three BC Towers to worry about this one, especially as they can't now sell off-plan until the building is at least 60% constructed. 

No doubt they would like to see an increase in Marina property values before they relaunch this one.


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> Can't believe they are not offering a long term payback with interest.


At least they offer something back, what about Nakheel investors of Palm Jebel Ali? Will they have anything in the next 10 years? 

Not sure..


----------



## Philippa C

True Blue said:


> ^^Palm is turning out to be a poor location if you want to live in Dubai. Alright if you are a short stop tourist
> 
> Seriously, the loss of the village centre and canal per the original model, it just has lost a lot of the wow and practicality of a luxury prime residential location. Some of the new developments are really nice but the full package is lacking.


Some nice cafes, restaurants and shops would do really well on the Palm and Nakheel could make good money renting the outlets. If they.ve the money to expand dragonmart, they should make some available for more retail outlets on the Palm.


----------



## speculator

*Glad not to have got involved*



Imre said:


> *
> Damac Properties offer cash refund options to Palm Springs investors*
> 
> Options include 70% refund in two weeks, or 100% with 25% paid in two weeks and rest at 25% over three years
> 
> By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Tuesday, August 23, 2011
> 
> In an effort to end the stalemate with investors of Palm Springs project in Palm Jebel Ali, Damac Properties has offered them cash refund options, 'Emirates 24|7' can reveal.
> 
> Investors claim that company executives of the Dubai-based developer, who recently met them, offered the options of cash refund at 70 per cent within two weeks, or 100 per cent with 25 per cent paid within two weeks and the rest paid at 25 per cent over the three subsequent years.
> 
> Although the developer did not respond to our queries, Niall McLoughlin, Senior Vice-President Corporate Communication, Damac Properties, in an emailed statement, said: “Damac is fully committed to working with Palm Springs Investors to bring closure to this issue.”
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/property...to-palm-springs-investors-2011-08-23-1.414652


I very nearly got involved in this when it was launched. Would have been at the top of my worst investments. Damac were very good at marketing this hype in the UK. Sorry for those that did get involved. What a saga !

If it makes anyone feel better it could have been worse though.


----------



## Towers3

Apologies if this is the wrong thread for this question but I received this reply about a project that is on hold in Dubai. 

'The project is turned off in the event of any disagreement with the Court's review I hope the developer Dubai Properties.' 

Everyone knows about the 'on hold projects' but what is the court of review please? 

Obviously alot of it, is a translation issue. I've asked RERA but they might not reply. They must be deciding which projects to cancel but I haven't seen a statement yet about what RERA are doing with the on hold projects? Is it just PR?


----------



## Mistermark

True Blue said:


> Would a commercial bank accept that attitude. Maybe I should try it with my mortgage provider see how long I keep my assets!
> 
> If they can't pay all now then they are insolvent and should be shut down!! That's how it works in the real world. Can't believe they are not offering a long term payback with interest.
> 
> Why am I getting mad, I'm not a customer. Maybe it's because of what I saw happening everyday in Dubai. Read the signature Time I got my cape on and cleaned up the place:lol:


I agree. In fact, I seem to remember some lying scum saying that no-one would ever lose money on property in Dubai. Now who might that be? Sheikh Mo, possibly?

Seriously, if he can't kick those guys into shape and get them to do right by investors, he can hardly be surprised if no-one wants to invest their money in his two-bit emirate any more.


----------



## TerryPop

Mistermark said:


> I agree. In fact, I seem to remember some lying scum saying that no-one would ever lose money on property in Dubai. Now who might that be? Sheikh Mo, possibly?
> 
> Seriously, if he can't kick those guys into shape and get them to do right by investors, he can hardly be surprised if no-one wants to invest their money in his two-bit emirate any more.


Yep might be time to ask him- 


“Dubai will not allow any (investor) to lose ... If anyone’s investment in Dubai regresses, and if the capital regresses, then the government of Dubai will give him, and it will buy what he has invested in,” Al-Maktoum said in Al-Bayan newspaper.


----------



## True Blue

^^Nakheel and Emaar have been doing it for years, issuing promisory/credit notes like they are cash, except they aren't cash so they changed hands at a fraction of their "face value". Instant loss!


----------



## wittyman

*Escrow and Title Coneyance Services Company*

Hi Imre and forumers, 

That is exactly why I am apprehensive and am working on a way to make the property sale transaction water tight. 

I recently came accross on the Web with a company named "EnTrust & Title" providing "escrow" and "title conveyance services". The company founded in 2008 in Dubai by a Pakistani American called Aziz Valliani, seems to be providing a service much needed in emerging property markets like Dubai. 

This is their website : http://www.entrusttitle.com/Home.aspx

The web site says the company is first of its kind in Dubai and that they have been licensed by both RERA and Land Department.

Does anybody know about this company? Has anybody used their service? How reliable can they can be?

Thanks for all who can provide info..



Imre said:


> Better to accept payments/cheque for your name only,if its under another person name what is the guarantee that you will ever get it?
> 
> Dont forget , this is Dubai so be careful


----------



## 9714

@27094 - one can say anything if you are not accountable for it...


----------



## SweLin

Hi all,

Soon I have an upcoming snagging and handover process. And I was just wondering if someone has any good recommendations for reliable companies that offer snagging and handover services?
I know that Palma real estate offers this kind of services. Has anybody used Palma for this? 

Many thanks in advance


----------



## gerald.d

Gold price "plunges":

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14656210

Thanks oh wise ones


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

Philippa C said:


> Some nice cafes, restaurants and shops would do really well on the Palm and Nakheel could make good money renting the outlets. If they.ve the money to expand dragonmart, they should make some available for more retail outlets on the Palm.


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/nakheel-settles-2-72bn-of-claims-in-stalled-projects-417323.html

Lootah said Wednesday the developer planned to build new villas on Palm Jumeirah to accommodate a rise in demand, and to begin work on a dedicated mall for the offshore island. “We are reviewing- and hopefully before the end of year, after doing internal evaluations- the Palm Jumeirah Mall, which is going be an added value to Palm Jumeirah and the rest of the area,” he said. “And also hopefully we will be launching new villas on Palm Jumeirah and will go out for engineering very shortly.


----------



## True Blue

gerald.d said:


> Gold price "plunges":
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14656210
> 
> Thanks oh wise ones


It's the way the facts are presented that makes it newsworthy. In actual fact the price of Gold "plunged" to a level 10% above where it was a month ago. If you invested 1 month ago and it shot up 20%, would you not be tempted to take the profit then buy it back at the lower level? Bear in mind that the banks are in charge and making a fortune out of someone, probably your pension fund.

Just like the price of Dubai property in 2008/9, the price of gold was just getting too hot too fast. Don't buy something that is shooting up in price, sell it and wait for it coming back down to sensible levels again


----------



## Philippa C

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/nakheel-settles-2-72bn-of-claims-in-stalled-projects-417323.html
> 
> Lootah said Wednesday the developer planned to build new villas on Palm Jumeirah to accommodate a rise in demand, and to begin work on a dedicated mall for the offshore island. “We are reviewing- and hopefully before the end of year, after doing internal evaluations- the Palm Jumeirah Mall, which is going be an added value to Palm Jumeirah and the rest of the area,” he said. “And also hopefully we will be launching new villas on Palm Jumeirah and will go out for engineering very shortly.


Thanks, I hope they go through with it this time. They made a statement a few months ago or even last year that they would go ahead with the mall.


----------



## gerald.d

True Blue said:


> It's the way the facts are presented that makes it newsworthy. In actual fact the price of Gold "plunged" to a level 10% above where it was a month ago. If you invested 1 month ago and it shot up 20%, would you not be tempted to take the profit then buy it back at the lower level? Bear in mind that the banks are in charge and making a fortune out of someone, probably your pension fund.


Pension fund? Moi?

:lol:


----------



## True Blue

Philippa C said:


> Thanks, I hope they go through with it this time. They made a statement a few months ago or even last year that they would go ahead with the mall.


They should be transferring owners who bought on PJA rather than trying to find new victims.


----------



## wittyman

I wanted to remind about this again. Isn't there anybody who can provide any info about the below post?



wittyman said:


> Hi Imre and forumers,
> 
> That is exactly why I am apprehensive and am working on a way to make the property sale transaction water tight.
> 
> I recently came accross on the Web with a company named "EnTrust & Title" providing "escrow" and "title conveyance services". The company founded in 2008 in Dubai by a Pakistani American called Aziz Valliani, seems to be providing a service much needed in emerging property markets like Dubai.
> 
> This is their website : http://www.entrusttitle.com/Home.aspx
> 
> The web site says the company is first of its kind in Dubai and that they have been licensed by both RERA and Land Department.
> 
> Does anybody know about this company? Has anybody used their service? How reliable can they can be?
> 
> Thanks for all who can provide info..


----------



## Imre

*Metro ‘hot spots’ in demand *

*Property rentals close to Dubai Metro stations command rates from 10 to 20% more than similar properties elsewhere, says Asteco *

As the supply of additional office and apartment buildings continues unabated in Dubai, the highly competitive property leasing rates are now being dictated by a new market dynamic. 

Location, or specifically close proximity to a Dubai Metro station is now becoming a priority for many tenants, who are prepared to pay up to 20% extra for the privilege, says Asteco, the largest property services company in the United Arab Emirates. 

“The Dubai Metro has added a whole new market dynamic and as the network is rolled out across the Emirate, the rental disparity will become even more pronounced than it is already,” said Asteco CEO Elaine Jones. 

Evidence from many international markets consistently reveals that land and property values and ultimately rentals, within the vicinity of stations linked to metro lines increases significantly. According to figures from HotProperty.co.uk, homes in central London within five-minutes walking distance of a tube station are up to 21% more expensive than those of similar properties further away. 

However, what is interesting is that the increases do not occur usually until after the stations physically open, not when the line is announced or under construction. 

“This would give savvy investors and tenants an opportunity to keep one step ahead of the market,” added Jones. 

Properties surrounding the currently operational metro stations are in higher demand attracting higher rental rates. For example a two-bedroom apartment within walking distance of the Mall of The Emirates metro station will lease for between AED60,000 to AED65,000 per annum compared to properties only a couple of kilometers away which lease for AED50,000 to AED55,000. 

More up market properties are showing a similar trend, where a two bedroom apartment near the DIFC and Emirates Towers metro stations will cost anywhere between AED110,000 to AED130,000 annually and the same property further away will cost AED90,000 to AED100,000 a year. 

Further afield, a property in Deira within walking distance to the metro will now command an annual rental rate of AED 50,000 whereas a similar property further away can be leased for as little as AED40,000. 

Full article:

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2011/08/property-rentals-close-to-dubai-metro.html


----------



## TerryPop

*Nakheel*

*Nakheel vows lowest service charges in Dubai*- source 

So far we have had about a third come off the service charges we pay in one development and two thirds in another (both nakheel developments).

This has had a positive effect on yield and therefore (as an investor) has affected the value we place on our investment.

Tiny steps that are going to make a difference.



*Nakheel settles $2.72bn of claims in stalled projects* - Source


With Nakheel taking this much needed step forward and the 'promise' (who knows?) of a return to developing retail and improving its existing communities- this again is a positive step forward. 

If you want good yields you have to offer tenants facilities like retail.

As this is an investment forum, worth stating the obvious- improved yields can have a positive affect on asset value.


----------



## TerryPop

I am becoming bullish on 'completed property' in Dubai over the next 36 months, and while supply side is a potential hit on any positive growth, I think there are arguments that this may not be as bad as the bears suggest.


Not trying to sound insensitive to the off-plan investor still waiting on their investment, but if completed property starts to see some positive growth... well i don't even want to say it...

The next 12-24 months is still a hold for us.


----------



## Philippa C

From The National

Housing demand on the rise in good locations

Has the property market bottomed out or are lower prices still to come?

"We have now entered an era where good locations are observing high demand. In Dubai the Springs, JBR, Green Community and downtown are a case in point. We have seen valuations edging up in these locations. The same can't be said about other less desirable locations."

http://www.thenational.ae/lifestyle/personal-finance/housing-demand-on-the-rise-in-good-locations

I'm suprised to see the Green Community included above as a good location - I thought it was a bit far out and the access via that huge roundabout is a nightmare. 

Just nice to see a bit of positive press. So much in property is a matter of perception and confidence.


----------



## TerryPop

Philippa C said:


> From The National
> 
> Housing demand on the rise in good locations
> 
> Has the property market bottomed out or are lower prices still to come?
> 
> "We have now entered an era where good locations are observing high demand. In Dubai the Springs, JBR, Green Community and downtown are a case in point. We have seen valuations edging up in these locations. The same can't be said about other less desirable locations."
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/lifestyle/personal-finance/housing-demand-on-the-rise-in-good-locations
> 
> I'm suprised to see the Green Community included above as a good location - I thought it was a bit far out and the access via that huge roundabout is a nightmare.
> 
> Just nice to see a bit of positive press. So much in property is a matter of perception and confidence.


On completed property- I have been through all the arguments that are (more often then not) negative and suggest the market is f*cked forever (see arabian business article comments as an example).

The only real argument that I agree with is the risk that over supply could pose to a recovery.

I don't agree that 'build quality' (a reason often given) is a variable to the market failing to recover (as an argument it is too subjective to a particular development or even an individual unit).


I don't agree that regulation and transparency is getting worse- it is better this year then last, and I expect it to be better next year then this it is now.



I don't agree that things are getting worse in terms of Home owners associations and rogue charges (very slowly they are getting better).

So generally I see a slow improvement in the environment for the investor in COMPLETED property and as such the only valid argument that could hold it back (in my humble opinion) is over supply.


----------



## speculator

^^^^
What ? Not even the next impending credit crunch/bust ?

However if that were not to occur then I also believe the the prospects for Dubai & AD are good now and certainly a hold at least.


----------



## rags

Imre said:


> *Metro ‘hot spots’ in demand *
> 
> *Property rentals close to Dubai Metro stations command rates from 10 to 20% more than similar properties elsewhere, says Asteco *
> 
> Location, or specifically close proximity to a Dubai Metro station is now becoming a priority for many tenants, who are prepared to pay up to 20% extra for the privilege, says Asteco, the largest property services company in the United Arab Emirates.
> 
> Full article:
> 
> http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2011/08/property-rentals-close-to-dubai-metro.html


Silverene is pretty ideally placed from this view point.


----------



## speculator

I believe gold is ready to adjust. Too much volatility/profit taking gestures this. But thats a personal hunch and I am usually wrong.


----------



## BlueHorizon

TB not only that, the deafening generators have also gone and on a few occasions recently, I have seen all lights on in the evening including externals so I am sure they have the DEWA now


----------



## Imre

Good idea at least some income for the Nakheel , maybe next one is Palm Jebel Ali Tour , Palm Deira Tour, Waterfront Tour etc.. 

:lol::lol:

*Nakheel plans to open The World islands to all*

*The developer is in talks with agencies to start tours to The World Islands from Palm Jumeirah*

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Tuesday, August 30, 2011

The next time you plan that much-needed break a 'World Tour' would be the best idea!

If Nakheel has its way, then The World islands, which have been sold “only by invitation”, would be open to all.

According to the company Chairman, Nakheel is in talks with tour agencies to start tours to The World Islands from Palm Jumeirah.

“We are trying to develop a tour and cruising business to The World islands from Palm Jumeirah… A lot of tour agencies are asking for such thing,” Ali Rashid Lootah said recently at a press conference.

“A lot of people come to Dubai for short stays and we have been asked for some short term tourism packages… we are in the process of doing that.”

However, it is not known when the tours will start and how much with they cost.

In July, 'Emirates24|7' reported that Nakheel was currently working on finalising prices for islands on its The World project, as investors interest is perking up once again.

“We confirm that we have had interest from purchasers and the properties are currently being priced,” a Nakheel spokesperson told this website.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-the-world-islands-to-all-2011-08-30-1.415750


----------



## LINNA

*would you buy here still!!*

would you buy here still!! 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prices seems to have fallen quite significantly
Any suggestions as to where the best place to buy an apartment in Dubai(1or 2 bed).Friend of mine come to Dubai about 3 times a year.
They prefer to let the apartment when they are not using it.
what are the best area to look at (value for money).
would be for investment


----------



## podium

Philippa C said:


> From The National
> 
> Housing demand on the rise in good locations
> 
> Has the property market bottomed out or are lower prices still to come?
> 
> "We have now entered an era where good locations are observing high demand. In Dubai the Springs, JBR, Green Community and downtown are a case in point. We have seen valuations edging up in these locations. The same can't be said about other less desirable locations."
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/lifestyle/personal-finance/housing-demand-on-the-rise-in-good-locations
> 
> I'm suprised to see the Green Community included above as a good location - I thought it was a bit far out and the access via that huge roundabout is a nightmare.
> 
> Just nice to see a bit of positive press. So much in property is a matter of perception and confidence.


Philippa...Green Community to Dubai Marina 15-20 min. The roundabout, which used to be a nightmare is much better since the instalation of traffic lights and filter lanes. If available rentals or resales are anything to go by, the GC still remains a very popular location.


----------



## rags

I am sure this new Green line, starting on Sept 9th, will be of some help to Dubai market given that every infrastructure improvement does some good.

http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_...sp?n_id=113152

http://www.dubaifaqs.com/dubai-metro-green-line.php


----------



## ummbutti

*CEO. RERA Communication*

Eng. Marwan Bin Ghulaita 
CEO . RERA 

*BB pin: 28060ccc *
[email protected] 

+971-56-1151155 

www.binghalaita.ae 
Facebook : مروان بن غليطة 
Twitter : @Binghalita11


----------



## IBROX

anacreon asked on the 19th July if anyone had a comment on MW1.
As yet I see only 1 reply.
Is there anyone out there who has moved into MW1 who can tell us what it's like and if there are any empty unsold apartments left.
Me....................I am still waiting for MW11 to be finished before I am too old to travel to Dubai to see it!


----------



## 3smiles1day

Nataelchibek said:


> PLEASE IF YOU ARE IN DUBAI WE NEED TO GO TO RERA TOGETHER..LETS MAKE APPOINTMENT....


I just got back from Dubai 2 weeks ago and visited the Royal Estate site. It is more than a year since I visited the site in May 2010. I took pics on both occasions and keeping them for reference purposes. Anyone please advise how I could upload these pics? 

I also got a proposal to swap the office unit for the residential units. It will be AED 800 psf versus the AED 1,100 psf for the office unit. The price at AED800 does appear to be quite near to the current market price in Dubai Investment Park region. The proposal includes a payment plan which will be paid progressively according to the works completed at the development. 

I have paid about 15% for the office unit and it seems like I have got nothing to lose if I pay according to what they are actually building. I do not mind really if I can see the physical structures erected and the project is supervised by RERA. 

I know it is quite difficult to trust RERA and the developer in the current market conditions in UAE. I opine it is better to see the project through and hold on to the properties rather than abandoning it midstream and hope that RERA will get our deposits back. Keeping in mind always that there is always an end to BOOM or BUST in the property market. It is just a matter of when.

Any comments guys?


----------



## methodinmadness

No point in doing anything at the moment. The deadline for this project is December 2011. Check the RERA website for the project progress report. It probably shows no progress has been made in which case we might be able to have the project cancelled by RERA. 



Nataelchibek said:


> PLEASE IF YOU ARE IN DUBAI WE NEED TO GO TO RERA TOGETHER..LETS MAKE APPOINTMENT....


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

http://www.emirates247.com/property...er-bounced-rental-cheques-2011-09-05-1.416634

Landlords not authorised to evict tenants over bounced rental cheques
Will need court and/or police order; Filing case in absentia not advisable: lawyer
By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Monday, September 05, 2011 
A landlord is not authorised to evict a tenant of a bounced rental cheques, and will need a court and/or police order to do so, according to a top property lawyer.

Based on an inquiry received by this website from an landlord residing in London, Ludmila Yamalova, Managing Partner of HPL Yamalova & Plewka JLT, said, “A landlord is not authorised to evict a tenant because of bounced rental cheques without a court or police order to do so.”

George Smith (name changed) rented out his apartment in Dubai, but stays in London. 

Two rent cheques issued by his tenant have bounced. Despite reminders, his tenant has failed to pay the rent in cash.

Now, Smith is weighing all his options and even considering filing a police complaint in absentia for bounced cheque.

According to Yamalova, filing a police case in Dubai in absentia, without a legally authorised representative, is difficult, if not impossible.

The police require original bounced cheques along with details such as addressee of the cheque, who will be filing a complaint and if the landlord is out of town, the authorised representative who can act on his/her behalf.

“This can be done through a power of attorney, which must either be attested in the UAE or in the UAE Embassy at the foreign country. Attesting documents abroad, however, often carries significant fees and, as such, it may be cheaper to travel to the UAE instead,” she said.

“Unless the tenant leaves the premises voluntarily, evicting the tenant in the UAE can be difficult and protracted. The bounced cheque, which carries the penalty of a jail sentence, usually serves as the strongest leverage to convict the tenant to leave,” she added.

If the tenant does not voluntarily leave, a court action must be instituted, she said, adding that the same applied to even it if the tenant is in jail over a bounced cheque.

“Without either a police order or a court action, technically speaking a landlord does not have the right to enter premises,” Yamalova points out.


----------



## carpetking

*Property investment Dubai*



LINNA said:


> would you buy here still!!
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Prices seems to have fallen quite significantly
> Any suggestions as to where the best place to buy an apartment in Dubai(1or 2 bed).Friend of mine come to Dubai about 3 times a year.
> They prefer to let the apartment when they are not using it.
> what are the best area to look at (value for money).
> would be for investment



I would say the one of the most popular areas is "DUBAI-MARINA" 

1 Bed or a nice Studio appartment near by one of the Metro Stations

but min. 1 M. Dhs because of the visa


----------



## carpetking

I know a really nice property investment in Germany (Berlin Mitte)

one of the best locations in Germany !

www.fellini-residences.com 

sq/mtr. prices from 3500 to 3900 EURO !


----------



## podium

3smiles1day said:


> I just got back from Dubai 2 weeks ago and visited the Royal Estate site. It is more than a year since I visited the site in May 2010. I took pics on both occasions and keeping them for reference purposes. Anyone please advise how I could upload these pics?
> 
> I also got a proposal to swap the office unit for the residential units. It will be AED 800 psf versus the AED 1,100 psf for the office unit. The price at AED800 does appear to be quite near to the current market price in Dubai Investment Park region. The proposal includes a payment plan which will be paid progressively according to the works completed at the development.
> 
> I have paid about 15% for the office unit and it seems like I have got nothing to lose if I pay according to what they are actually building. I do not mind really if I can see the physical structures erected and the project is supervised by RERA.
> 
> I know it is quite difficult to trust RERA and the developer in the current market conditions in UAE. I opine it is better to see the project through and hold on to the properties rather than abandoning it midstream and hope that RERA will get our deposits back. Keeping in mind always that there is always an end to BOOM or BUST in the property market. It is just a matter of when.
> 
> Any comments guys?


Yep, I have a comment. If you have only paid 15% towards your office unit, then walk away and never look back! Firstly they will never build the development. Secondly.......there is no secondly!


----------



## 3smiles1day

methodinmadness said:


> No point in doing anything at the moment. The deadline for this project is December 2011. Check the RERA website for the project progress report. It probably shows no progress has been made in which case we might be able to have the project cancelled by RERA.


I checked the progress several weeks ago on RERA's website. Progress but critically delayed as of July 2011. If it is cancelled, fine and well for the investors. People familiar with the way things that are handled in UAE will agree that it will take ages for the deposits to be refunded, if, I say again, if the funds are still there.


----------



## 3smiles1day

podium said:


> Yep, I have a comment. If you have only paid 15% towards your office unit, then walk away and never look back! Firstly they will never build the development. Secondly.......there is no secondly!


Thanks Podium. I was ready to walk away and lose the deposit 2 years ago. I have got nothing further to lose at this point in time. 

It is only wise to look at what's on the table and get the best out of it.


----------



## AppleMac

carpetking said:


> but min. 1 M. Dhs because of the visa


I wouldn't base any purchases on what visa may or may not be available today - many were burnt by doing just this in the past.


----------



## Cayman

Dear Imre et al,

I am just about to take the delivery of a studio apartment in International city CBD, which was purchased in haste just before the collapse of the market.

I truly appreciate if someone could help me with the following queries:

1.	At the time of signing the pre sales agreement the size of the apartment was mentioned as 540 sqft. However when the SPA was signed the size was shown as “Built Up area: 422 sqft, Total built up area: 540sqft”. Is it normal for the actual built up area to be 22% lesser than the total built up area?

2.	Is there an approved percentage by RERA / Land Department where the total area could be of the actual built up area?

3.	I have been to the apartment and I am skeptical that the place is even 422 sqft. Is it sensible to get a certified surveying company to laser measure the size of the property to ensure I get the space that I pay for? The additional expense could only be justified if I could successfully negotiate a discount based on the potential shortfall in space. Is there a precedence that supports this?

4.	Finally, could you please recommend a surveying company who could measure the apartment and issue a certificate?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Cool banana

Cayman said:


> Dear Imre et al,
> 
> 3.	I have been to the apartment and I am skeptical that the place is even 422 sqft. Is it sensible to get a certified surveying company to laser measure the size of the property to ensure I get the space that I pay for? The additional expense could only be justified if I could successfully negotiate a discount based on the potential shortfall in space. Is there a precedence that supports this?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


May I suggest that you write the developer and request him for a copy of the Consultant approved (stamped & signed) as built drawing(s) covering your aparment as a part of the handover documents. Should there be a discrepancy you can then choose which action to take. I believe no matter what you would have to deal with it legally after handover except if the developer offers settle in connection with the final accounts.

I hope it turns out in your favor.

:banana:


----------



## podium

3smiles1day said:


> Thanks Podium. I was ready to walk away and lose the deposit 2 years ago. I have got nothing further to lose at this point in time.
> 
> It is only wise to look at what's on the table and get the best out of it.


I can completely understand what you are saying, and would probably do exactly the same myself. Its really hard to simply walk away whilst there is even the smallest glimmer of hope.


----------



## Androider

Just spoke to Mr Al Shawaaary,

he confirmed that 30th floor will be done in 3 weeks time.

And completion date is April 2013


----------



## axe2grind

*EXPOSED AND CLOSED?*



axe2grind said:


> Its been a bit quiet on this thread for the past 6 weeks or so but I suppose thats to be expected with an alleged Force Majeure event affecting progress at site. In fact only movement of any kind has been the project management team heading for the basement (perhaps a real Force Majeure event is on the way) and Sunland vacating their sales office at the Gold and Diamond Park on SZR.hno:
> 
> There have been a few contributors putting some guesswork together as to when this project is likely to get started again but it doesn't need guesswork as the logical minds would know that it is going to be between 30 and 36 months when DEWA get round to installing the 132kV substation that Cultural Village needs to be fully operational.:bash::bash::bash:
> 
> Things have moved along a little recently with two important issues regarding Force Majeure being decided in the Civil Courts and at DIAC. Firstly, the Dubai Civil Courts have ruled that the world financial crisis is not a Force Majeure event, and, secondly, an investor at Dubai Marina has won an award against a defaulting developer for late completion despite the developer claiming Force Majeure for late delivery of infrastructure by the master developer. SOUND FAMILIAR. Remember an award at arbitration cannot be appealed!
> 
> The Genie is now out of the bottle as far as the use of FM as an excuse by developers for the delays that have bedevilled numerous projects in Dubai. One question that should be asked of Sunland is why have they waited until just before the end of the extended contractual completion date in the SAP Agreement (ie. June 2011) to state that the project is delayed due to Force Majeure when Dubai Properties walked off Cultural Village end of 2008. In other words they have known for nearly two and half years that they would not be able to complete the project without the infrastructure. Its been a cynical move on their part to deceive investors that everything is okay and demand payment or we'll cancel your contract due to payment default. Well Sunland should be aware that the UAE Civil Code protects both parties to a contract and in particular Article 247 of Federal Law 5 of 1985 applies if you refused to pay due to lack of progress. Any claim to a Force Majeure event should be made as soon as it was known and Sunland knew end of
> 2008.
> 
> Anyone who has had their contract cancelled in this manner should seek legal advice and that applies to every project in Dubai not just this one. Sunland had no "Right" to claim FM when they did.
> 
> So what now for Palazzo Versace and Sunland. My view is that they will circle the wagons and continue to bluff their way through for a while until the mounting arbitration/litigation costs results in them divesting themselves of any involvement and heading back to the Gold Coast (remember White Bay). During Force Majeure their is no income only outgoings. Cost cutting has already commenced with the sales team going, what/who will be next?
> 
> Oh, nearly forgot, spellcheque please!!


Seems sometime since we heard from Skinnygirl, very surprised she hasn't jumped down my throat again with her logical approach to being ripped off!!! My feeling is that as Emirates Sunland have got rid of their Legal Counsel, Skinnygirl has gone as well. Has she been a victim of the cost cutting!
The news on the arbitration/litigation front continues be very positive for investors as a number of litigants have succeeded against errant developers especially when the defence has been the dreaded Force Majeure.
:banana:


----------



## Ahmed N

Androider said:


> Just spoke to Mr Al Shawaaary,
> 
> he confirmed that 30th floor will be done in 3 weeks time.
> 
> And completion date is April 2013


Thanks Androider for the update. Lets all open our wallets and get ready for next stage payment. 2013 here we come.


----------



## 234sale

Correct, it's not,, nor are the officially cancelled,, 

HAs anything actually been cancelled.

Just - On Hold

I see all Emaar Downtown projects are back on track..

Obvisouly we need more supply.. 


ENI has also a new tower near that Damac one "Burj Side Boulevard"

Damac plan to start the Lotus by End of 2011

ETA plan to star starhill gallery soon... 

No shortage of plots, just a shortage of people..

One thing for sure,, was crazy years,, 2004 - 2008


----------



## UAEUK

where can you find legal advice about the laws applicable to developers?


----------



## 234sale

Hi UAEUK,,

At the end of the day,, even if you having a winning contract,, you would need to get that contract applied.. through the courts...

Some people have been sucessful in arbitration,, but it is a costly process these days..

Best to check the thread on your specific development to see what you can do..

some users have real estate experiance,, PM them,, you might get a result..


----------



## W40arx

So this means that they are still working at an extremely slow pace! What is ACIs contact number as all the numbers I have fail to work (again). I'm getting rather fed up with their bull about "...we are on schedule and work is going ahead as planned...". Why is there no definitive answer here? Nearly half a year for 2 floors? 

I will be in Dubai in October. Is anyone there at that time...action needs to be taken.

Regards 

Waqar


----------



## fernando_khan

Hi sale, hope your well.. been a while!

Is anyone buying/selling plots still?!

Fernando


----------



## 234sale

Hi Fernando...

The cost to build a development including the land, would probably exceed it's sales price in today’s market. Even if the land was free, it would still be a challenge, unless you have the resources of a government developer...


----------



## Morrismarina

234sale said:


> Hi Fernando...
> 
> The cost to build a development including the land, would probably exceed it's sales price in today’s market. Even if the land was free, it would still be a challenge, unless you have the resources of a government developer...


And the developer will need have all the finance in place themselves as nobody will ever buy off plan again.


----------



## 234sale

As a developer, you cannot sell until 50% is completed.. As per RERA reg's

The regulation to protect the market is now the regulation that will hold back the market..

Still personally think, the UAE market is now only for UAE developers..


----------



## Zaaraa

Hi, Is there anyone willing to sell their 2Bedroom apt in Autumn???

Pls email

[email protected]


----------



## speculator

Received a call from Damac this afternoon. Was worried at first when the girl introduced herself from Damac. I thought to myself what now ? More money ? Some invented bill ?

Anyway she tried to sell me a unit from on of the projects. I asked her why I should give my money to a company with a bad reputation......she hung up. LOL

Now I know how to get rid of them prompt.:lol:


----------



## Imre

Lets wait this list as well 


*Dubai Land Dept launches real estate rescue fund for 100 projects*

*Developers say new Real Estate Development plan will renew investor confidence in sector*

By Parag Deulgaonkar & Rafat KhalafPublished Monday, September 19, 2011

The Real Estate Development plan, or Tanmia initiative, launched today by the Dubai Land Department, will cover 100 projects in 2012, and will span the next three to four years, a senior official told Emirates 24|7.

“One project already has approval under the initiative and two more will be signed this week,” Sultan bin Butti bin Mejren, Director General of the Land Department, said.

He added that a number of developers have submitted application under this programme, but currently only 100 projects are being considered for next year.

Close to 225 projects are currently in progress in Dubai and will be delivered in the next three years, bin Mejren said.

He, however, made it clear that developers will not be allowed to bring in investors on their own.

“The department needs to protect right of the investors and the developer. Therefore, it needs to be involved in all these agreements.”

“The initiative aims to address the problems that stand in the face of completion of faltering projects in the domestic market in the emirate,” he said.

He said, “We will begin signing of memorandums of understanding and contracts with developers and investors who wish to gain benefits of the initiative, which will include all uncompleted projects regardless of the rate of achievement.”

http://www.emirates247.com/property...cue-fund-for-100-projects-2011-09-19-1.419375


----------



## beer51

Does anyone have the up todate list of cancel/on hold project given that IMRE's one is out of date.


----------



## Androider

W40arx said:


> So this means that they are still working at an extremely slow pace! What is ACIs contact number as all the numbers I have fail to work (again). I'm getting rather fed up with their bull about "...we are on schedule and work is going ahead as planned...". Why is there no definitive answer here? Nearly half a year for 2 floors?
> 
> I will be in Dubai in October. Is anyone there at that time...action needs to be taken.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Waqar


they almost covered 29th floor, 30th floor will be done till the end of this month as was told.


----------



## Morrismarina

234sale said:


> As a developer, you cannot sell until 50% is completed.. As per RERA reg's


That's finalliy it then........off plan is now officially dead. A developer has to build 50% (whatever that might be) before then can start selling ?? Can't see any developer willing to risk doing this even if they can get the finance together, which is extremely unlikely.


:goodnight:


----------



## Imre

Morrismarina said:


> That's finalliy it then........off plan is now officially dead. A developer has to build 50% (whatever that might be) before then can start selling ?? Can't see any developer willing to risk doing this even if they can get the finance together, which is extremely unlikely.
> 
> 
> :goodnight:


Its already dead in 2008


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Don't worry, they will change the rules again when prices eventually surge again due to lack of supply.
For now they need to prevent any new units coming on the market.


----------



## True Blue

The 50% milestone came into effect to stop developers creating pipedream projects to attract buyers with their weird and wonderful concepts. 

I still can't believe people actually bought snow domes, ipod towers and rotating towers. But the reality only emerged when the costs came through and the developer decided to run off with the money collected so far. As an engineer I just laughed at all these shopping mall stands selling outrageous fantasies.


----------



## Imre

beer51 said:


> Does anyone have the up todate list of cancel/on hold project given that IMRE's one is out of date.


I havent found any updated list yet, also these numbers always changing:

*EIB gets Tayseer accreditation*

The move will accelerate *completion of 40 projects *within the Dubai Marina, Business Bay and Jumeirah Lake Towers districts

By StaffPublished Tuesday, August 03, 2010 

http://www.emirates247.com/property/real-estate/eib-gets-tayseer-accreditation-2010-08-03-1.274438

*Tayseer funds issue-free projects*

Five banks join hands with Dubai Land Department to fund projects

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Saturday, December 18, 2010 

A *total of 40 projects *within the Dubai Marina, Business Bay, and Jumeirah Lake Towers have been short listed in the first phase of the initiative launched by DLD to offer developers and investors confidence and security of completion of the project.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...funds-issue-free-projects-2010-12-18-1.330951


*114 projects under 'guaranteed funding' plan*

First deal under Tayseer initiative expected to be finalised soon, says senior Land Department official

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Sunday, March 27, 2011 

The number of projects registered under the Dubai Land Department’s (DLD) *Tayseer programme has reached 114 *and the first funding agreement under the scheme is expected to be finalised soon, a senior official told Emirates 24|7.

http://www.emirates247.com/property/114-projects-under-guaranteed-funding-plan-2011-03-27-1.373319


*First Tayseer project gets approval*

Al Manal’s project in JLT gets Dh65m from Mashreq bank

By StaffPublished Monday, March 28, 2011 

Al Manal Development has become the first real estate developer to secure a two-year funding of Dh65 million from Mashreq for its Lakeside Residence in Jumeirah Lakes Towers.

http://www.emirates247.com/business...eer-project-gets-approval-2011-03-28-1.374083


*Dubai launches real estate rescue fund for 100 projects*

Developers say new Real Estate Development plan will renew investor confidence in sector

By Parag Deulgaonkar & Rafat KhalafPublished Monday, September 19, 2011

The Real Estate Development plan, or Tanmia, launched today by the Dubai Land Department, *will cover 100 projects in 2012*, and will span the next three to four years, a senior official told Emirates 24|7.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...cue-fund-for-100-projects-2011-09-19-1.419375


----------



## TerryPop

*Its starting*

Seems to be quite a bit of press on the bottoming out and turnaround of price decline in completed property.

I think the completed property sector's recovery and Nakheels return to 'activity' will follow a very similar graph.

Alot of people (I humbly believe) underestimate the effect that the return of Nakheel to the market is going to have.



Bull run baby, bull run. Moo Moo. 2012-2015. Growth.


----------



## glover

you keep posting about how the real estate market is about to turn around and have a bull run in dubai, while all indications are pointing to the other direction: major developers are restarting stalled projects further increasing the supply, global economic conditions worsening, oil prices going down, finance getting even harder to get if not now it will be very soon, Nakheel itself saying in their sukuk ipo that woresening economic conditions will possibly lead the company to default!!!

where are you getting your optimism from, or is it just denial/delusion!!



TerryPop said:


> Seems to be quite a bit of press on the bottoming out and turnaround of price decline in completed property.
> 
> I think the completed property sector's recovery and Nakheels return to 'activity' will follow a very similar graph.
> 
> Alot of people (I humbly believe) underestimate the effect that the return of Nakheel to the market is going to have.
> 
> 
> 
> Bull run baby, bull run. Moo Moo. 2012-2015. Growth.


----------



## speculator

Will have to agree with Terry & Philippa. Market is on an upward trajectory. Oh and by the way ( glover ) rents are up in Abu Dhabi and rising.


----------



## W40arx

This is a letter that I had sent earlier this morning. Still waiting for a reply!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 20 September 2011 02:07:46 GMT+01:00
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Customer Service <[email protected]>
Subject: ****URGENT**** ACI Dubai Star concerns

Dear Sirs,

Please let me introduce myself, I am Mr xxxxxxx and am an extremely concerned property investor from London. I have invested in the above mentioned tower but as we all know the property market in Dubai had somewhat considerably slowed down! I am fully aware that I am not the only person in this situation but one would expect adequate correspondence from the developers, in this case ACI, to keep their concerned investors in constant communication. I feel, along with other investors, that this is not the case!

Dubai Star was meant to be originally completed back in 2008, but we were then told 2011. We are currently being told that completion will now be in 2013, fingers crossed! The tower is near to being constructed up to the 30th floor which means that our next instalment will be due and, consequently, we will have to part with our hard earned money and there is no confidence left among the investors whether the project will even complete. This is purely due to the fact that communication between the developer and its investors is extremely poor! Investors have had to play a cat and mouse game with the developers continuously chasing via email and telephone trying to get answers out of ACI but to no avail! I have made several trips myself to ACIs offices which then becomes even more costly! ACIs website is very rarely updated which is very daunting for international investors as this is the only means for visually checking the status of our investment. Some investors have even had very harsh and abrupt emails from ACI as if this delay is our fault!

The purpose of this email is to achieve some clarity on our investment status. I have paid at every instalment stage of this build on time and have full intention to complete my end of the contract, along with other investors, but I feel that the investors have the very short end of the straw in this deal! 

Mr Marwa and Mr Khalid Obaid at RERA, Mr Elshaarawy from ACI and Customer Care at DMCC, my questions are as follows:

- RERAs website shows that Dubai Star is a project that has stopped constructing half way through. Please could the officials at RERA and DMCC, even ACI if they can be so kind, elaborate on this and explain the full status of my investment?

- I will be paying for the next instalment very soon, so is this a guarantee that the project will continue at a steady pace so that we will actually see a finished product in 2013?

- Why are investors being told that we will be faced with penalties if payments are not made on time when it is highly clear that ACI have not been performing as per their contract? We were told that these delays were due to exogenous factors (factors beyond ACIs control) when it has been very clear to me, and others, that there were many projects in Dubai still being constructed, 24 hours a day, and have now even completed and handed over! Seems strange that if payments have been made to Mr Robert Lohmann's multi million dollar purse then why have there been so many delays?

- If the delay is proved to be ACIs neglect and carelessness, are the investors entitled to our money back? I believe that if the project is set to complete, if not by ACI then by RERA or the government of Dubai, does any of our original contract stand or are we entitled to get a refund?

- There has been a lot of negative press about the Lohmann family and ACI, so can this be cleared up to reassure us that this is not affecting our investment?

- The contractors have been changed on one occasion, maybe two (I can't remember!). Will this effect the quality we were first sold initially or do we get a sub standard, low quality, very poor finished apartment? Will there be some building works guarantee? In the UK buyers benefit from a 10 year NHBC guarantee for structural works which the developer will take full responsibility, is this the case for us?

- There has been no real mention of any compensation to be awarded to investors for this delay (as it states in the contract), so where do the investors stand on this?

Apologies for the lengthy email, but as you all can imagine, we the investor are very concerned and worried about this situation and feel that we have not had any real guidance nor clarity on this project. Not all of us are millionaires like the Borris Beckers and the Michael Schumachers, even the Robert Lohmann's, of this world so the little money that we have invested in this project means an awful lot to us. Some investors have even re-mortgaged their properties in the UK to finance their dream of owning a property in that wonderful country known as Dubai but they now can't help but feel wronged, neglected, and dishonoured by the powers that be!

I will be visiting Dubai yet again and hope that Mr Elshaarawy will find it important to keep to his appointment this time round as on my last visit he failed to comply!

Please do not read this email as an emotional sob story, but please treat it with integrity and honesty and provide an urgent response to set our minds at rest.

Your help is highly appreciated.

Kindest Regards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## MarkWass

speculator said:


> Market is on an upward trajectory.


*'Market'?* Which do you mean – sales, rentals or both?

In order for the capital values (sales) in the market to be on an *'upward trajectory'*, what is needed is sustained and genuine demand from straight resi owners (owner-occupiers – either permanent or own usage holiday home owners) *in addition* to investor demand. If there are only *yield chasers* around, obviously the higher the yield, the lower the sales value, longer term. Unless of course, rents are increasing at a faster % rate than sales..

Is there any data available confirming the % of *owner-occupiers* vs *rental investors* for each location, size, type etc, so that a worthwhile analysis of possible future direction of capital values can at least be attempted?


----------



## gerald.d

Taxi drivers are moaning again.

I've always maintained that their takings are a good leading indicator as to how the wider economy is going. 

They were all very happy during Eid, but since the holiday, takings have dropped a lot more than expected. It might simply be because of Eid being earlier this year, and the autumn/winter holiday uplift has yet to kick in though. 

Will be interesting to gauge their opinion again towards mid-October.


----------



## glover

prove it with hard data!!!



speculator said:


> Will have to agree with Terry & Philippa. Market is on an upward trajectory. Oh and by the way ( glover ) rents are up in Abu Dhabi and rising.


----------



## Imre

I would rather agree with Glover, there is no sign about recovery , still many properties coming into the market till 2013-2014, generally both sales and rentals prices can go down which is not good for investors but good for real estate agents and Land Department because they will have more transactions

Only few specific projects and properties we can speak price increasing but what % is that for the whole market ? 5 % maybe.. even less.


----------



## Imre

*Nakheel gets cracking: 25,000 workers, 300 days, 9 projects*

*Chairman says 8,000 housing units will be completed*

By StaffPublished Wednesday, September 21, 2011 

More than 25,000 workers have been mobilised to complete 8,000 housing units in 300 days, Ali Rashid Lootah, Chairman of Nakheel, was quoted as saying by Arabic daily Al Bayan.

He said: “The 25,000 workers are spread over nine projects. These projects were hampered by the global financial crisis, but currently Nakheel is dealing with them as top priority.”

The projects were identified as Garden View Villas, International City, Jumeirah Island, Badra and Fineto in Waterfront, Jumeirah Heights, Jumeirah Park, Jumeirah Village and Al Furjan.

Lootah added: “Ninety per cent of the contractors who stopped work at Nakheel sites after the crisis have returned to complete projects that the company classified as short-term.”

“Nakheel paid Dh7 billion to those contractors and others affected by the process of restructuring, including those whose debts are less than half a million dirhams.”

Lootah pointed out: “Nakheel has been able to regain the trust of construction and contracting industry and the clear evidence is the resumption of work at these nine projects.”

*Shopping malls*

He reiterated Nakheel’s commitment to develop four shopping malls, saying the company has received requests for booking space.

Two malls will come up in Discovery Gardens and Jumeirah Park.

Lootah denied the rumors about the existence of a Chinese investor in the expansion of Dragon Mart and said the company's is determined to revive its shopping center project for Palm Jumeirah by the end of the year.

The company will adds to its portfolio more than two million square feet of retail space, he said.

Rental stability

Lootah said that Nakheel continues to play an important role in providing stability to rental sector as the percentage of occupancy in the 20,000 housing units owned by Nakheel is very high.

“Nakheel will help stabilise the leasing market by reducing service fees for many projects by between 30% and 50% and that reduction will be applied according to the project in a timely manner,” Lootah said.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...rkers-300-days-9-projects-2011-09-21-1.419805


----------



## Ruslan Isin

Dear Waqar, thank you. Very appropriate letter. Looking forward to an answer.


----------



## Jesus.C

Hi all

Just to keep the thread alive called al Tajir and they are still saying completion is 20 NOV 2011 although it does not seem that it will finish this year in my opinion. Any news about waving off the maintenance fee for 2012 as a compensation. Did anyone speak to al Tajir about any compensation for the delay? Any actions have been taken by any investor?


----------



## agod

I think its called the "September Factor" I remember the same feeling last year and the year before, but this year is different, more calls from Agents looking for Sellers in my Development, and I just heard from an Owner that got 230.000 for a Furnished 3 Bed in Oceanic Tower, good views, up from 180.000 a few months ago.

For all you followers of Trident, the news is not good, rumour has it he has skipped town, bouncing a few cheques on the way, RERA has a lot to blame for this, giving these guys to much leeway, and not dragging them into court sooner, all the signs where their, and they where told often enough.

I went down the DNRD, to see about this 3 year investor Visa, no chance, they are still harping on about the 6 month one, he actually said "did you see it in the Gulf News" yes I did, tut, tut, cant beleive anything you read in the papers.

A.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Select Property are advertising it on their webpage.



> 3 Year visa available for purchases over 1million AED.


----------



## DXBQuantum

Hi Guys, anyone know about new visa regulations? 

Emaar have mentioned they will give an open ended NOC to immigration so you can get a visa, is it 6 months or 3 years? I'm just helping a friend buy here, property is over 1 million. 

Thanks for any help. 

:cheers:


----------



## 234sale

Imre said:


> I would rather agree with Glover, there is no sign about recovery , still many properties coming into the market till 2013-2014, generally both sales and rentals prices can go down which is not good for investors but good for real estate agents and Land Department because they will have more transactions
> 
> Only few specific projects and properties we can speak price increasing but what % is that for the whole market ? 5 % maybe.. even less.


Agreed



glover said:


> prove it with hard data!!!


Agreed also

Some properties are undervalued,, (Address Lake Hotel) (IMO)some properties have little value..

Still developers are holding stock of unsold units,, some are willing to lease at realistic prices,, but sales is another issue..

I can buy now and get a 8% return,, (destressed) purchase prices are reasonable,, but many projects still to come to market.. people will always want new ..

Example 10 residential towers around the BK are coming up,, Southridge may suffer as new stock coming...

Dubai Marina ,, rather a new place in Infinity,, than in Emirates Crown

Think quality will hold,, rubbish will stink...



As to IMRE's comments about construction of projects..

I guess the UAE will continue to build,,, why? because it can......

Just no private developers,, only goverment developers.. Who can build for 300 AED sqft, pay little for the land and sell at what ever they deem fit..

Bit like China,, who continue to build, ,, Just my POV


----------



## Philippa C

234sale said:


> Some properties are undervalued,, (Address Lake Hotel) (IMO)some properties have little value..
> 
> 
> Dubai Marina ,, rather a new place in Infinity,, than in Emirates Crown
> 
> Think quality will hold,, rubbish will stink...


So what will happen to the rubbish properties - will they just sit nearly empty and deteriorate? There won't be enough income from service fees to maintain them.


----------



## 234sale

Gold Star to Philippa...


----------



## Green Hornet

Philippa C said:


> So what will happen to the rubbish properties - will they just sit nearly empty and deteriorate? There won't be enough income from service fees to maintain them.


Which leads me to my unanswered question from yesterday

'*SERVICE CHARGES

*Info please.How big is the problem of non payment of service fees in Dubai?
Does anyone know of any buildings where DEWA have disconnected for non payment due to the fact the management company did not have 
enough funds from service fees paid by owners?
Thanks'
-------------------------------------------------------------------

So are we looking at a situation where in 10 years time there will be countless buildings all over Dubai which are sitting empty and deteriorating
because there wasn't enough service fees to keep them maintained and habitable?
I don't see why this would only happen to 'rubbish' properties.I'm sure there's plenty of owners of quality units who are not paying their fees also.
Or will this be overted by the useless Dubai goverment bringing in laws to make owners pay or they lose ownership of their units?Maybe also the buildings management company would be able to divert tenants rental money from the non paying owners to their own account to pay for these fees?


----------



## ashram8

impressive letter that reflects all of our agonizing experience with the scam makers ACI. Thank you, but i m no longer optimistic. i even find it difficult to believe they completed 28th floor. in the past if they had made a single column they would place this as an update on their site. now that too they dont do.


----------



## Imre

DXBQuantum said:


> Hi Guys, anyone know about new visa regulations?
> 
> Emaar have mentioned they will give an open ended NOC to immigration so you can get a visa, is it 6 months or 3 years? I'm just helping a friend buy here, property is over 1 million.
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> :cheers:


Immigration will give you only 6 months visa , for the 3 years visa you have to visit the Gulfnews office


----------



## Dubai_Steve

So Gulf news just invented this lie to try and con some more investor interest?


----------



## Money2Burn

Hi,

anyone ever heard of a substation charge? emirates National Invrstmentsmis asking me a year after I took posession of my flat in Churchill Residency to pay over Aed4000 as a one time substation fee.
I'm sure as long as I keep paying my DEWA bill they cannot disconnect me but it would be nice to know if they have the right to claim this fee from us owners.

Thanks for any feedback.


----------



## W40arx

Guys, the only response that I have had so far was an out of office reply from Mr Elshaarawy!!!!
LOL, sums it up really!


----------



## Androider

W40arx - keep us updated about an answer !


----------



## Josau

Green Hornet said:


> Which leads me to my unanswered question from yesterday
> 
> '*SERVICE CHARGES
> 
> *Info please.How big is the problem of non payment of service fees in Dubai?
> Does anyone know of any buildings where DEWA have disconnected for non payment due to the fact the management company did not have
> enough funds from service fees paid by owners?
> Thanks'
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> So are we looking at a situation where in 10 years time there will be countless buildings all over Dubai which are sitting empty and deteriorating
> because there wasn't enough service fees to keep them maintained and habitable?
> I don't see why this would only happen to 'rubbish' properties.I'm sure there's plenty of owners of quality units who are not paying their fees also.
> Or will this be overted by the useless Dubai goverment bringing in laws to make owners pay or they lose ownership of their units?Maybe also the buildings management company would be able to divert tenants rental money from the non paying owners to their own account to pay for these fees?


^^Thanks for bringing this up, I think this is a huge problem and growing. Even in developments which are well rented, the payment moral towards service charges is extremely bad in Dubai. The government needs to allow steps against non payment of service charges, which should ultimately lead to repossession, as its does for example in Paris.


----------



## glover

it's already taking care of. By law an apartment can be sold at a publlic auction if the owner fails to pay service charges.

RERA's Circular No.1 of 2010 deals with Service Charge for Jointly Owned Property, as stipulated in Law No. 27 of 2007. 

Article (9) of the Circular states:

"9. Failure to pay Service Charge on time is a violation of the Law and may result in civil penalties including a lien being imposed over the Unit. Continued failure to pay the Service Charge may result in legal enforcement of the lien to recover Service Charges which may result in a public auction, with outstanding Service Charges being deducted from the selling price."



Josau said:


> ^^Thanks for bringing this up, I think this is a huge problem and growing. Even in developments which are well rented, the payment moral towards service charges is extremely bad in Dubai. The government needs to allow steps against non payment of service charges, which should ultimately lead to repossession, as its does for example in Paris.


----------



## Green Hornet

glover said:


> it's already taking care of. By law an apartment can be sold at a publlic auction if the owner fails to pay service charges.
> 
> RERA's Circular No.1 of 2010 deals with Service Charge for Jointly Owned Property, as stipulated in Law No. 7 of 2007.
> 
> Article (9) of the Circular states:
> 
> "9. Failure to pay Service Charge on time is a violation of the Law and may result in civil penalties including a lien being imposed over the Unit. Continued failure to pay the Service Charge may result in legal enforcement of the lien to recover Service Charges which may result in a public auction, with outstanding Service Charges being deducted from the selling price."


Its not already taken care of according to the property management company for a building where only 25% of service fees for 2010-2011 have been collected.This building was constructed by one of Dubais top developers and is the premier development in the area its in.
Below is a quote from the management company.

_ 
'Our service charge recovery team will be working very hard to improve collections. Under the current legislation there is no provision to take further action against those owners who have not paid. We are advised that this mechanism has been provided for in the draft Jointly Owned Property Regulations however until they become law we have to continue to communicate with these owners and push them as best we can.

We have met with the Board and discussed the options we have available to us and will be implementing a number of initiatives in the coming weeks. The first will be to prepare a notice to be distributed to those tenants who’s landlords have not paid, to increase the pressure on them'

​_

I believe today DEWA will disconnect the main bulk meter which will affect lighting in the common areas plus the A/C to all units.This may mean however those owner residents may then pay up.Also tenants will put pressure on their landlords to pay up or they will leave.
Those owners who have paid up,now knowing 75% have not,may figure well I won't pay my next quartley installment either making the situation even worse.


By the way are one off yearly payments of service fees a thing of the past considering landlords no longer get 1 cheque?(in most cases)
I mean why the hell should or can owners pay 1 cheque if they themselves are getting 3/4/6/12 cheques?


----------



## glover

sounds like you have an incompetent management company. the law is clear here. here is a link to it on RERA's site showing both laws quoted above.


Article (25) of Law No. 27 of 2007 is very specific about this issue.

Article (25)
1- The Owner’s Association shall have a lien on every Unit for unpaid service fees and any other obligations levied against the Unit Owner in accordance with the provisions of this Law or the Association Constitution. This right shall exist even when ownership of the Unit has been transferred to a new Owner.

2- If the Unit Owner does not pay his share of service fees or defaults on any of his obligations, the decision of the Manager of the Association takes against the Unit Owner shall be, after 3 months of being notified to him through the Notary Public, enforceable by the Execution Judge at any Competent Court , and in all cases the suffered person may object on this decision within that period at the Competent Court, and the execution must be held till taking a decision in the subject of the objection.

http://www.rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/home/laws_regulation.do?lang=0



Green Hornet said:


> Its not already taken care of according to the property management company for a building where only 25% of service fees for 2010-2011 have been collected.This building was constructed by one of Dubais top developers and is the premier development in the area its in.
> Below is a quote from the management company.
> 
> 
> 'Our service charge recovery team will be working very hard to improve collections. Under the current legislation there is no provision to take further action against those owners who have not paid. We are advised that this mechanism has been provided for in the draft Jointly Owned Property Regulations however until they become law we have to continue to communicate with these owners and push them as best we can.
> 
> We have met with the Board and discussed the options we have available to us and will be implementing a number of initiatives in the coming weeks. The first will be to prepare a notice to be distributed to those tenants who’s landlords have not paid, to increase the pressure on them'
> 
> ​


----------



## Richard Head

Just one of many such emails I have received in the last couple of weeks
______________________________________________________________

Hello!

I have personally just let another seven villas this week in the Arabian Ranches to a variety of companies’ relocating families to Dubai. I desperately need your properties to meet the demand and have clients waiting for immediate moves in all communities within the Arabian Ranches. Vacant or tenanted properties required regardless of the date of availability. If you have already listed with me, then I thank you for your confidence in me. 
Call your Allsopp & Allsopp Arabian Ranches Specialist today. 
Annabelle Potter on +971 50 827 0321 - [email protected]
Should your property be available for lease, coming up for tenancy renewal, be currently for sale or you are considering any of the former please contact me at your earliest convenience on +971 50 827 0321 so we can arrange immediate marketing for your property to avoid missing this opportunity.


Kind Regards,

Annabelle


----------



## Imre

Ask them the list of villas what they have rented 

Those kind of emails just spams , they want properties and will try to rent..


----------



## Green Hornet

glover said:


> sounds like you have an incompetent management company. the law is clear here. here is a link to it on RERA's site showing both laws quoted above.
> 
> 
> Article (25) of Law No. 27 of 2007 is very specific about this issue.
> 
> Article (25)
> 1- The Owner’s Association shall have a lien on every Unit for unpaid service fees and any other obligations levied against the Unit Owner in accordance with the provisions of this Law or the Association Constitution. This right shall exist even when ownership of the Unit has been transferred to a new Owner.
> 
> 2- If the Unit Owner does not pay his share of service fees or defaults on any of his obligations, the decision of the Manager of the Association takes against the Unit Owner shall be, after 3 months of being notified to him through the Notary Public, enforceable by the Execution Judge at any Competent Court , and in all cases the suffered person may object on this decision within that period at the Competent Court, and the execution must be held till taking a decision in the subject of the objection.
> 
> http://www.rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/home/laws_regulation.do?lang=0


Cheers.Will send that to them and see what they say.


----------



## speculator

glover said:


> prove it with hard data!!!


First you 

But please no gulf news articles !


----------



## Philippa C

Richard Head said:


> Just one of many such emails I have received in the last couple of weeks
> ______________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> Call your Allsopp & Allsopp Arabian Ranches Specialist today.
> Annabelle Potter on +971 50 827 0321 - [email protected]
> Annabelle


We've let property through Allsopp and Allsopp and found them to be among the more reliable agencies. I don't think agents will go looking for properties to list on their books if they don't have clients. They'd just be wasting their time and resources.


----------



## gerald.d

I was checking out the rental price of villas at Arabian Ranches a week or so ago. 

Villas like the one we rented from March 08 to March 09 were being listed at 50% of what we paid.


----------



## glover

i guess we have a new breed of "investors" who judge the health of the real estate market by how many calls and spam emails they get from real estate agents.



Imre said:


> Ask them the list of villas what they have rented
> 
> Those kind of emails just spams , they want properties and will try to rent..


----------



## glover

another statement which shows you know c**** about the UAE! Gulf News is more or less a mouth piece of the government and it is inherently interested in propping up an image of a healthy economy here (obviously this includes the real estate market). so it would be natural for them to accentuate the positive and spin the bad news.

in other words, they will be your best source to back up your claim that the real estate market is on an uptrend, not the other way around. 

"Abu Dhabi rents fall to compete with Dubai

Charlie Hamilton
Jul 14, 2009 

ABU DHABI // Rents in the capital have fallen sharply as a tide of residents opt instead for Dubai's lower prices and newer buildings. Apartment rentals in Abu Dhabi fell by up to 35 per cent between March and June. The price reductions were further fuelled by redundancies and tenants relocating out of the city centre, according to a report published yesterday by Asteco, a property services firm.

It follows decreases in rental values of up to 20 per cent in the first three months of the year. While areas including Khalidiya and the Corniche have retained their value, neighbourhoods such as Salam Street, the site of a huge redevelopment, have seen rents plummet. Poorly maintained flats with window-mounted air-conditioning units have been the hardest to let. As well as finally accepting that they cannot hold rents artificially high, landlords are increasingly willing to accept payment in two cheques as opposed to one, estate agents reported."

"We expect these [rent] drops to continue until the end of the year," said Andrew Chambers, the managing director of Asteco. "Around November and December we will expect to see the rents across the capital level off. "That is when people will have returned from their holidays, even more new stock will have become available and people will start recruiting again. "A lot of people we have spoken to said they were going away for the summer and would re-examine the situation when they return."


http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/abu-dhabi-rents-fall-to-compete-with-dubai



speculator said:


> First you
> 
> But please no gulf news articles !


----------



## MarkWass

A healthy real estate market requires interest and ownership from *both* investors, tenants but *mainly* owner occupiers, particularly if capital growth is to continue to increase on a sustained basis.

Although there has been something of a lull in many western real estate markets mainly due to lack of available finance from lenders, from a longer term point of view, the reason why somewhere like London market has or had the potential to grow is that there is a balance between owner occupiers and rental investors. I'm not saying hear whether the London or other markets WILL grow or fall, as there are many other factors involved, but it is unlikely to be the *market share of investors vs owner occupiers* will be the factor that restricts growth. 

Relatively speaking, the amount of half decent rental properties in London is still limited, therefore demand from tenants is relatively strong.

But what about Dubai? Can anyone, eg Imre and others who are actually working in the residential property sector in Dubai, confirm the comparable proportions of *investors vs owner occupiers* who are active in the market? And what is trend of that market share looking like - ie are the investors increasing as compared to owner-occupiers or is it the reverse? 

Because if it is mainly investors (who lurk around on internet forums  ) who are buying, then although in theory, they could do well in if they buy at the right time. Assuming there is continued demand from tenant / rental demand is strong.

But if supply continues to increase and rental demand does not, then the investors might need to be careful... as both rental and capital growth and could be restricted.

From a longer term point of view more Owner Occupiers are needed! 




*The below is one of thousands of articles, blogs etc on the net that the yield chasers should bear in mind:*
http://www.erskineowennzpropertyinvestment.com/2010/10/why-chasing-capital-growth-over-yield-could-lose-you-money/



*Why Chasing Yield Over Capital Growth Could Lose you Money*

*Published on Monday, October 18th, 2010 at 9:29 am*
*One of the most common property portfolio flaws we see is chasing yield at the cost of capital growth. As long term investors we believe the goal should be to maximize capital growth, because capital growth is what carries us to our wealth goals.*
*Yield is absolutely critical to the survival of the portfolio, but it’s not the key to building wealth through property. In this article we look at the cost of chasing yield based properties, and suggest how to get the right capital growth/ yield mix for you.*
*Define Capital Growth and Yield*

*First let’s define yield and capital growth.*
*Yield is the annual revenue or rent from a property reflected as a percentage of the value of the property. In the table below we see that there is $35k of rent for the year and the property is worth $350k – so the yield is 10%.*
**​*The capital growth rate expressed as a percentage is the amount the property goes up each year reflected as a percentage of the value property. In the table below we see the value of the property is $350k. By year 2 it is worth $385k, so it has gone up $35k. $35k is 10% of the year 1 value. So the capital growth for the year is 10%. Of course we should take account of inflation to be completely accurate, but let’s keep it simple.*
**​ 
*What is the Potential Financial Impact?*
*The table on the following page shows what happens when your investment averages 10% growth versus 5% growth. Over 20 years Property 1 experiences 10% capital growth per annum which in dollar terms is $1.791m. However Property 2 with a 5% capital growth rate gains only $534k.*
*The difference in capital growth over 20 years is quite remarkable – more than $1.256m. Sure, you might have saved a few pennies in the outset by investing in the 10% rental return property, $155k, but it is still far more beneficial to have invested in the high growth property. So the net benefit of owning property 1, the higher capital growth property, is $1.101m (being the $1.256m of net capital gain less $155k of rent that was not earned as a result of having the lower yield).*
**​ 
*Why are High Yield Properties Not Usually High Growth Properties?*
*The problem with chasing high yielding properties is that to achieve that yield you usually have to compromise on capital growth. For example, you can get much better yields in the provinces, or smaller towns, but what is their capital growth story? If the saw mill closes down and that’s the main employer, who will want to live there? There are far fewer people wanting to buy these properties, compared to the cities. In other words the demand is lower – low demand = low pressure on prices, and consequently price growth is slower.*
*The statistics prove that investing in the provinces will see you with less capital growth, and the gains you do get are often eroded to a greater degree than city prices when a recession hits. We saw that in the 2003-2007 boom – the regions experienced good gains, albeit later than the main urban centres, but then during the 2008 recession a lot of the value was wiped off, and as at Jan 2010 hasn’t been recovered. Conversely some Auckland growth suburbs performed better than the national median during the boom and while they did experience price reduction in 2008, some are now back or close to their 2007 levels as at Jan 2010.*
*Buy High Yield in a High Growth Area?*
*The solution you might think is just to find high yielding property in great capital growth areas. This approach is certainly a lot better, and for some people perhaps the right or only option, but it doesn’t mean your capital growth will be as high as lower yielding properties in the same area.*
*For example, in the table below we look at an example of a 3 bedroom home on 800s/m of land versus a block of flats on the same size piece of land. It’s fairly safe to say that the 3 bed home will at least track with the median house price change for the area. So let’s say that capital growth in that area averages 10%, then this property will go up by 10%.*
**​*However, in the case of the block of flats it is not safe to make the same capital growth assumption. For the block of flats the buyer is more likely to be a yield conscious investor rather than an emotional home buyer. So they are more likely to look at the annual rent and ask themselves what yield this should represent. If rent is $7k and they think they should be able to get a 7% yield, then they will pay only $100k (7,000 divided by 7%) for this property, regardless of whether it has a great colour scheme and an inviting entrance.*
*So in the example below the rent is $31,660 in the first year. If 7% is the prevailing yield then divide that into $31,660 and you get a property value of $450k. Great you think – this property is financially easier to service compared to the 3 bed property. But now let’s look at the second year.*
*Remember that pricing of the block of flats is driven more on yield. So where do we start? With the annual rent. What has that done? It’s gone up by the rate of inflation – and maybe a bit more because a lot more people want to rent in this area because it’s a high capital growth area and owners and renters alike are flooding in. So let’s say inflation is 4% and then a bit more for the extra rental demand – say 1%, so we have a 5% increase in rent. Rent is now $33,243, but the average yield for blocks of flats in the area is still 7%. So same approach, rent $33,243 divided by yield – 7%, and we get $472,500.*
*The block of flats has gone up on $22,500, which is a 5% increase.*
**​*Admittedly this is a very simplified example. In reality the block of flats will probably go up by a little more than 5% because the underlying land value may attract other than just pure yield driven investors. But the block of flats will always be constrained in comparison to the 3 bed home as it will never have the emotional home buyer falling in love with it. It will never be able to appeal to the widest demand pool – the home buyer.*
*In essence, when investing in the block of flats there is more investment in the buildings than the land compared to the 3 bed home. But it’s the land that goes up in value. So the underlying reason for a lower growth rate for the flats compared to the 3 bed house is greater ratio of buildings to land.*
*So, to a degree there as an inverse relationship between yield and capital growth. The higher the yield, the lower the capital growth is likely to be, and the higher the capital growth the lower the yield is likely to be.*
*What do we take from this? To maximize capital growth put as much of your spend into the land, and as little as possible into the building – in a high capital growth area.*
*What Capital Growth Rate Should You Aim For?*
*You’d think then, just go out and buy lots of bare land if that’s what delivers capital growth. Well absolutely, if you’ve got lots of money and you can afford to service the interest on all the debt. Therein lies the problem… and the answer. As investors looking to build wealth, we usually can’t afford to do this, so that forces us to look at ways of making an investment affordable. And that’s the key – finding a high capital growth investment that is affordable for your individual circumstances. Not chasing yield for yields sake, rather chasing capital growth with enough yield to make it serviceable.*
*For some it might mean some bare land and some 3 bedroom houses. For others it might mean all 3 bedroom houses, and then for others it might mean a home and income. It’s really up to you to work with your financial advisors and your bank and broker to determine the right yield. But as always the primary objective should be to try to invest in optimal capital growth areas and types of property.*
*For example – it may be that you can afford to service an investment with a $2,000 loss per annum after tax benefits. So then you go looking for a high capital growth area and then determine what you can afford in that area, remembering that you want to spend as much on the land as possible, and minimize spend on the buildings. If you can’t afford a 3 bed home on 1,000 s/m, don’t worry – look for something in the same area on less land. Our diagram below shows the capital growth/ yield continuum that has to be balanced according to your personal profile.*
*As the diagram depicts, getting the right capital growth/ yield mix is a balancing act – going for great capital growth but not tipping the scales so far that it all topples over because you can’t afford to hold your properties.*
*Happy balancing!*
**​


----------



## TerryPop

Hey Glover- you are sounding a bit emotional- clearly no one knows which way its going to go for certain 

One way or the other time will tell.

The National is as much a mouthpiece for AD as Gulf news is for Dubai inc. agreed.

Can you quote & link to any analyst reports, say 3 different ones if possible? you mentioned you'd read quite a few.

Cheers




glover said:


> another statement which shows you know c**** about the UAE! Gulf News is more or less a mouth piece of the government and it is inherently interested in propping up an image of a healthy economy here (obviously this includes the real estate market). so it would be natural for them to accentuate the positive and spin the bad news.
> 
> in other words, they will be your best source to back up your claim that the real estate market is on an uptrend, not the other way around.
> 
> "Abu Dhabi rents fall to compete with Dubai
> 
> Charlie Hamilton
> Jul 14, 2009
> 
> ABU DHABI // Rents in the capital have fallen sharply as a tide of residents opt instead for Dubai's lower prices and newer buildings. Apartment rentals in Abu Dhabi fell by up to 35 per cent between March and June. The price reductions were further fuelled by redundancies and tenants relocating out of the city centre, according to a report published yesterday by Asteco, a property services firm.
> 
> It follows decreases in rental values of up to 20 per cent in the first three months of the year. While areas including Khalidiya and the Corniche have retained their value, neighbourhoods such as Salam Street, the site of a huge redevelopment, have seen rents plummet. Poorly maintained flats with window-mounted air-conditioning units have been the hardest to let. As well as finally accepting that they cannot hold rents artificially high, landlords are increasingly willing to accept payment in two cheques as opposed to one, estate agents reported."
> 
> "We expect these [rent] drops to continue until the end of the year," said Andrew Chambers, the managing director of Asteco. "Around November and December we will expect to see the rents across the capital level off. "That is when people will have returned from their holidays, even more new stock will have become available and people will start recruiting again. "A lot of people we have spoken to said they were going away for the summer and would re-examine the situation when they return."
> 
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/abu-dhabi-rents-fall-to-compete-with-dubai


----------



## TerryPop

glover said:


> another statement which shows you know c**** about the UAE! Gulf News is more or less a mouth piece of the government and it is inherently interested in propping up an image of a healthy economy here (obviously this includes the real estate market). so it would be natural for them to accentuate the positive and spin the bad news.
> 
> in other words, they will be your best source to back up your claim that the real estate market is on an uptrend, not the other way around.
> 
> "Abu Dhabi rents fall to compete with Dubai
> 
> Charlie Hamilton
> Jul 14, 2009
> 
> ABU DHABI // Rents in the capital have fallen sharply as a tide of residents opt instead for Dubai's lower prices and newer buildings. Apartment rentals in Abu Dhabi fell by up to 35 per cent between March and June. The price reductions were further fuelled by redundancies and tenants relocating out of the city centre, according to a report published yesterday by Asteco, a property services firm.
> 
> It follows decreases in rental values of up to 20 per cent in the first three months of the year. While areas including Khalidiya and the Corniche have retained their value, neighbourhoods such as Salam Street, the site of a huge redevelopment, have seen rents plummet. Poorly maintained flats with window-mounted air-conditioning units have been the hardest to let. As well as finally accepting that they cannot hold rents artificially high, landlords are increasingly willing to accept payment in two cheques as opposed to one, estate agents reported."
> 
> "We expect these [rent] drops to continue until the end of the year," said Andrew Chambers, the managing director of Asteco. "Around November and December we will expect to see the rents across the capital level off. "That is when people will have returned from their holidays, even more new stock will have become available and people will start recruiting again. "A lot of people we have spoken to said they were going away for the summer and would re-examine the situation when they return."
> 
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/abu-dhabi-rents-fall-to-compete-with-dubai


Remember this news article is actually promoting Abu Dhabi in a sort of subtle way.

*"Rents are now cheap In AD!!! Consider us over Dubai- We now compare favourably with Dubai"*

Also it is REALLY important (now more then ever) to seperate out the market in a discussion.

The trends will vary between the Emirates, off-plan and completed, developer and state of community.

You may find once you've indicated which part of the property market you are discussing we actually all agree :nuts:


----------



## TerryPop

The magical effect of compounding yield kind of kills this argument?





MarkWass said:


> A healthy real estate market requires interest and ownership from *both* investors, tenants but *mainly* owner occupiers, particularly if capital growth is to continue to increase on a sustained basis.
> 
> Although there has been something of a lull in many western real estate markets mainly due to lack of available finance from lenders, from a longer term point of view, the reason why somewhere like London market has or had the potential to grow is that there is a balance between owner occupiers and rental investors. I'm not saying hear whether the London or other markets WILL grow or fall, as there are many other factors involved, but it is unlikely to be the *market share of investors vs owner occupiers* will be the factor that restricts growth.
> 
> Relatively speaking, the amount of half decent rental properties in London is still limited, therefore demand from tenants is relatively strong.
> 
> But what about Dubai? Can anyone, eg Imre and others who are actually working in the residential property sector in Dubai, confirm the comparable proportions of *investors vs owner occupiers* who are active in the market? And what is trend of that market share looking like - ie are the investors increasing as compared to owner-occupiers or is it the reverse?
> 
> Because if it is mainly investors (who lurk around on internet forums  ) who are buying, then although in theory, they could do well in if they buy at the right time. Assuming there is continued demand from tenant / rental demand is strong.
> 
> But if supply continues to increase and rental demand does not, then the investors might need to be careful... as both rental and capital growth and could be restricted.
> 
> From a longer term point of view more Owner Occupiers are needed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The below is one of thousands of articles, blogs etc on the net that the yield chasers should bear in mind:*
> http://www.erskineowennzpropertyinvestment.com/2010/10/why-chasing-capital-growth-over-yield-could-lose-you-money/
> 
> 
> 
> *Why Chasing Yield Over Capital Growth Could Lose you Money*
> 
> *Published on Monday, October 18th, 2010 at 9:29 am*
> *One of the most common property portfolio flaws we see is chasing yield at the cost of capital growth. As long term investors we believe the goal should be to maximize capital growth, because capital growth is what carries us to our wealth goals.*
> *Yield is absolutely critical to the survival of the portfolio, but it’s not the key to building wealth through property. In this article we look at the cost of chasing yield based properties, and suggest how to get the right capital growth/ yield mix for you.*
> *Define Capital Growth and Yield*
> 
> *First let’s define yield and capital growth.*
> *Yield is the annual revenue or rent from a property reflected as a percentage of the value of the property. In the table below we see that there is $35k of rent for the year and the property is worth $350k – so the yield is 10%.*
> **​*The capital growth rate expressed as a percentage is the amount the property goes up each year reflected as a percentage of the value property. In the table below we see the value of the property is $350k. By year 2 it is worth $385k, so it has gone up $35k. $35k is 10% of the year 1 value. So the capital growth for the year is 10%. Of course we should take account of inflation to be completely accurate, but let’s keep it simple.*
> **​
> *What is the Potential Financial Impact?*
> *The table on the following page shows what happens when your investment averages 10% growth versus 5% growth. Over 20 years Property 1 experiences 10% capital growth per annum which in dollar terms is $1.791m. However Property 2 with a 5% capital growth rate gains only $534k.*
> *The difference in capital growth over 20 years is quite remarkable – more than $1.256m. Sure, you might have saved a few pennies in the outset by investing in the 10% rental return property, $155k, but it is still far more beneficial to have invested in the high growth property. So the net benefit of owning property 1, the higher capital growth property, is $1.101m (being the $1.256m of net capital gain less $155k of rent that was not earned as a result of having the lower yield).*
> **​
> *Why are High Yield Properties Not Usually High Growth Properties?*
> *The problem with chasing high yielding properties is that to achieve that yield you usually have to compromise on capital growth. For example, you can get much better yields in the provinces, or smaller towns, but what is their capital growth story? If the saw mill closes down and that’s the main employer, who will want to live there? There are far fewer people wanting to buy these properties, compared to the cities. In other words the demand is lower – low demand = low pressure on prices, and consequently price growth is slower.*
> *The statistics prove that investing in the provinces will see you with less capital growth, and the gains you do get are often eroded to a greater degree than city prices when a recession hits. We saw that in the 2003-2007 boom – the regions experienced good gains, albeit later than the main urban centres, but then during the 2008 recession a lot of the value was wiped off, and as at Jan 2010 hasn’t been recovered. Conversely some Auckland growth suburbs performed better than the national median during the boom and while they did experience price reduction in 2008, some are now back or close to their 2007 levels as at Jan 2010.*
> *Buy High Yield in a High Growth Area?*
> *The solution you might think is just to find high yielding property in great capital growth areas. This approach is certainly a lot better, and for some people perhaps the right or only option, but it doesn’t mean your capital growth will be as high as lower yielding properties in the same area.*
> *For example, in the table below we look at an example of a 3 bedroom home on 800s/m of land versus a block of flats on the same size piece of land. It’s fairly safe to say that the 3 bed home will at least track with the median house price change for the area. So let’s say that capital growth in that area averages 10%, then this property will go up by 10%.*
> **​*However, in the case of the block of flats it is not safe to make the same capital growth assumption. For the block of flats the buyer is more likely to be a yield conscious investor rather than an emotional home buyer. So they are more likely to look at the annual rent and ask themselves what yield this should represent. If rent is $7k and they think they should be able to get a 7% yield, then they will pay only $100k (7,000 divided by 7%) for this property, regardless of whether it has a great colour scheme and an inviting entrance.*
> *So in the example below the rent is $31,660 in the first year. If 7% is the prevailing yield then divide that into $31,660 and you get a property value of $450k. Great you think – this property is financially easier to service compared to the 3 bed property. But now let’s look at the second year.*
> *Remember that pricing of the block of flats is driven more on yield. So where do we start? With the annual rent. What has that done? It’s gone up by the rate of inflation – and maybe a bit more because a lot more people want to rent in this area because it’s a high capital growth area and owners and renters alike are flooding in. So let’s say inflation is 4% and then a bit more for the extra rental demand – say 1%, so we have a 5% increase in rent. Rent is now $33,243, but the average yield for blocks of flats in the area is still 7%. So same approach, rent $33,243 divided by yield – 7%, and we get $472,500.*
> *The block of flats has gone up on $22,500, which is a 5% increase.*
> **​*Admittedly this is a very simplified example. In reality the block of flats will probably go up by a little more than 5% because the underlying land value may attract other than just pure yield driven investors. But the block of flats will always be constrained in comparison to the 3 bed home as it will never have the emotional home buyer falling in love with it. It will never be able to appeal to the widest demand pool – the home buyer.*
> *In essence, when investing in the block of flats there is more investment in the buildings than the land compared to the 3 bed home. But it’s the land that goes up in value. So the underlying reason for a lower growth rate for the flats compared to the 3 bed house is greater ratio of buildings to land.*
> *So, to a degree there as an inverse relationship between yield and capital growth. The higher the yield, the lower the capital growth is likely to be, and the higher the capital growth the lower the yield is likely to be.*
> *What do we take from this? To maximize capital growth put as much of your spend into the land, and as little as possible into the building – in a high capital growth area.*
> *What Capital Growth Rate Should You Aim For?*
> *You’d think then, just go out and buy lots of bare land if that’s what delivers capital growth. Well absolutely, if you’ve got lots of money and you can afford to service the interest on all the debt. Therein lies the problem… and the answer. As investors looking to build wealth, we usually can’t afford to do this, so that forces us to look at ways of making an investment affordable. And that’s the key – finding a high capital growth investment that is affordable for your individual circumstances. Not chasing yield for yields sake, rather chasing capital growth with enough yield to make it serviceable.*
> *For some it might mean some bare land and some 3 bedroom houses. For others it might mean all 3 bedroom houses, and then for others it might mean a home and income. It’s really up to you to work with your financial advisors and your bank and broker to determine the right yield. But as always the primary objective should be to try to invest in optimal capital growth areas and types of property.*
> *For example – it may be that you can afford to service an investment with a $2,000 loss per annum after tax benefits. So then you go looking for a high capital growth area and then determine what you can afford in that area, remembering that you want to spend as much on the land as possible, and minimize spend on the buildings. If you can’t afford a 3 bed home on 1,000 s/m, don’t worry – look for something in the same area on less land. Our diagram below shows the capital growth/ yield continuum that has to be balanced according to your personal profile.*
> *As the diagram depicts, getting the right capital growth/ yield mix is a balancing act – going for great capital growth but not tipping the scales so far that it all topples over because you can’t afford to hold your properties.*
> *Happy balancing!*
> **​


----------



## MarkWass

TerryPop said:


> The magical effect of compounding yield kind of kills this argument?


Which argument and how does compounding yield kill it? Please be more specific.


----------



## wittyman

*Does anybody have witnessed any application of this rule?*

Does anbody have witnessed any application of this rule?

If there is not yet any owner's association can the managing develıoper do the same?

I have not paid last two year's management fee for an apartment as the developer invoiced the management fee together with a claim for an extra payment of AED 58,000 for the apartment being larger than it's original size in the contract. (And of course without proıviding any proof / measurement records etc. whatsoever.) They were sying they will go to court. But tey did not e-mail or send me any invitation for court. And did not send any notification via notary public.

Maybe I should check out nevertheless?? Any advice anyone?



glover said:


> sounds like you have an incompetent management company. the law is clear here. here is a link to it on RERA's site showing both laws quoted above.
> 
> 
> Article (25) of Law No. 27 of 2007 is very specific about this issue.
> 
> Article (25)
> 1- The Owner’s Association shall have a lien on every Unit for unpaid service fees and any other obligations levied against the Unit Owner in accordance with the provisions of this Law or the Association Constitution. This right shall exist even when ownership of the Unit has been transferred to a new Owner.
> 
> 2- If the Unit Owner does not pay his share of service fees or defaults on any of his obligations, the decision of the Manager of the Association takes against the Unit Owner shall be, after 3 months of being notified to him through the Notary Public, enforceable by the Execution Judge at any Competent Court , and in all cases the suffered person may object on this decision within that period at the Competent Court, and the execution must be held till taking a decision in the subject of the objection.
> 
> http://www.rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/home/laws_regulation.do?lang=0


----------



## Ahmed N

Androider said:


> Guys u dont have to pass by, you can actualyl go inside ... safety guards will allow any1 upstairs... go to 2nd floor... it should be a mock floor but its not fully ready, but u can walk and see lay outs of the flats....
> 
> Most important is that there is an office and 3 ppl are sitting there eng. Mohamed is there who is dealing legal work with RERA regtarding the payments, Accountant and project manager. Ive been there 3 days ago... to my surprise RCC is the contractor.. they told me that they are waiting for RERA's approval and money transfer... Cuz as per what they told me.. there is 2.8mill dhs in the ESCROW account... their contract is being renewed every 4 floors they make... and THEY only work IF there is cash on ESCROW.... they told me they refused to work with ACI as well...
> 
> Dont know if its any good or bad. Ive seen estimate finish prise of Dubai Star wich is 119.5 mill dhs.
> 
> 
> Price as per contract 2.4 mill per every 4 floors they make. So process goes like that .. 4 floors - RERA inspection - if approved they pay RCC and they sing another contract for 4 floors.
> As well as they told me that Construction is a difficult CHAIN of everything... they can make 1000 ppl go on site and finish it quickly... but if there will be a delay of lets say something .. working will be sitting doing nothing without materials... i dont know if that is believable or not... But financing is been weak so far.
> 
> Once again they told me that they will keep building only if RERA will confirm if there are money on the ESCOW... at the moment situation is that they build 3 floors till 29 (they finished slab works - which means there are steal works to be done and puring of concrete left to finish 29th floor). and they DID NOT RECIEVE a single fils.
> 
> Money transfer should be on Sunday which is today ... if they get paid then they will finish 29th floor in 10 days and 30th floor in another 10 days.
> 
> Also they confirmed that building will be done by April 2013 as well as if the PAYMENTS will be on time they can finish 4 months earlier which is Jan 2013.
> 
> They are gonna run 2 shifts 2 floors a month but again if money will go through without problems they can go for 3 floors a month. by may 2012 they plan to top building out.
> 
> I will be passing by today and will try to go up the 29th floor.... cuz they said any1 can go up there with safety team.... so im curious .. will post later about that.
> 
> So those who passign and wandering .. go into the site.. 2nd floor and talk with Contractor ppl iself.


Thanks you for your post, the information is very helpful, and does give some peace of mind that the project will finish one day.....

It seems as though ACI have no control, and that's why Mr El Sharaawy is always avoiding any e-mails and queries - its because he actually does not know whats going on. He has no control.

The deal looks like RERA are in control (well - more than ACI) and its on their say things progress. They release monies as and when the construction progresses. 

When I spoke to RERA a couple of years ago = they did say that the developer and construction company have defaulted, and when we questioned "the developer = ACI" is still in Dubai and has an office, the response was "we don't know why they are here, they have no say anymore".

I am due to visit Dubai in October, so will definately go and see inside the building. I have sent an e-mail to Mr El Sharaawey to arrange a meeting - he has not replied. From your information - I will not bother with him, and just go to the site directly.

What we need to find out is who is in charge at RERA, making the decisions - and that will hopefully give us the trust and confidence that the project will be completed, and reassurance that if we pay any further monies - we will not be throwing money down the drain.

Hope that make sense...........


----------



## Green Hornet

Pleth said:


> What else is coming, they doubled the electricity prices by adding a housing fee for expats, and now this! hno: What else?


Income Tax :cripes:


----------



## MANUTD

True Blue said:


> ^^Working?
> 
> I think it is an investor laying the fuse wire for the explosives :lol:


:lol::lol:


----------



## Pleth

Green Hornet said:


> Income Tax :cripes:


Income tax ONLY for expats!! :storm:


----------



## Zaaraa

Hi , I wanted to go for site visit, but I am told by ishraqah that only 1st and 3rd Monday I can go. As I have my weekly off on Saturday I wud like to on 1st Oct as it is Saturday. Pls let me know if any one has been there to see the sample apartment on other days.
thanks.


----------



## TerryPop

Promo article but it looks like we are on other side of the curve (and have been for some time) in estab'd completed property communities in Dubai.

BLOWME
Perhaps we should be concentrating a little harder lol :lol:


----------



## maximus1

*tfg do not invest with them*

*The First Group Yasmin RAK* 
do not invest with them. i wish that i had never heard of them , let alone given them my hard earned money. bought an overpriced invest, delivered three years late (actually its still not been handed over yet) and despite all of their wealth builder plans & promisses they now tell me that the rental returns are not as they had hoped, and they are now trying to scare us into signing up for somthing, that is not at all beneficial to me.its kind of funny, if you phone them regarding any of ther projects, they will tell you that ther doing great and you better get a wiggle on or you will miss out and they tell tales of great returns via rentals.then like me when you talk to them about rentals or possible resale they tell you, good luck trying to sell or rent anything at the moment because nothing is moving, and they are right as i have checked out many est agents in the area, and nothing much is selling unless you want to sell at a loss. they do however continue to falsley advertise the high return rates etc on ther web site, and still send out to existing and potential customers ther rates that they know not to be true. i am in the process of now taking legal action against them.my journey with them has been one of dissapointment and being let down time after time, stressfull and to date the worst investment i have ever made, actually its the only epic disaster i have been involved with. this is why i am sharing this with whoever wants to take heed from it. 
regarding the returns, i cannot quite believe what they have told me today, it hurt big time. they are saying the expected rental is now going to be in the region of 20 to 30 thousand aed a year, thats right folks a year 3 to 5 thousand sterling. they are expecting final payment. its not going to happen, the stark reality is it is no deal, this means i am going to be in dis pute with them and i now realise that i have lost my investment pretty much as i am sure that if i do not make the final payment they will probably seize it or somthing in ther favour. but it is already not worth what i paid for it, and 5k a year rental? it will take me about 60 years just to break even. if anyone is interested in contacting me then do so i can forward copies of correspondance to you. i think it is to late for anyone who has purchased in yasmin now we are all in the same situation? 
i am looking for someone who has property in phase 1 yasmin, being rented out by tfg wealth builder plan.


----------



## Pleth

I have invested in 2 *very bad *projects in Dubai, so I went to seek some answers from RERA. This is what I experienced:

In March this year I had a pleasant meeting with Mr. Marwan and Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei at RERA.
They could not answer any of the questions but promised to come back with answers within a week.
That day Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei gave me his so called "business card".

Months went by, I did not hear anything.
I tried to ring the numbers on the business card 1000 times:
Direct line +971 4 203 0266 = not direct - only getting through to the switch board
Tel. +971 4 222 1112 switch board, then got through to complaints department (I thought) but that was only back to the switch board again.
One lady at switch board gave me another number:
+971 4 2030 263 but guess what it gets me through to the switch board again.
I wrote many e-mails to Mr. Khalid, his e-mail address [email protected] was on the business card. But he never replied.
So none of the info on the business card was actually working. 

I drove down to RERA asking to talk to Mr. Khalid. But I was told I could not talk to him without booking a meeting. They told me I could do this through his secretary:
tel. +971 4 2030 577 = Number is not working!
E-mail [email protected] Name: Marwa Hassan Darwish Al Ozaibi
I have written e-mails 5 times to her, she does not answer!

Are they doing it on purpose, having a meeting with investors, and then say "we will come back within a week with the answers!"??

Recently I got an e-mail address where I could file complaints:
[email protected] I am guessing this e-mail address does not work either!?


----------



## maximus1

a letter to tfg. danny lubert director & david lewis 
this is a copy of a email i have just sent out to tfg to see if they want to answer any of the questions, they havent to date.

to danny lubert director of tfg and david lewis an empolyee, dated

25/9/2011

this is a copy of a email i have just sent to david lewis but it is also for you to repond to or not. i have another letter for you that shall follow shortly.
why can you not answer the following questions despite asking you on numerous times now. it shows that you tfg do not want to put anything in writing, and waisting more time, that we need.
1, when did tfg know that rental returns were nose diving?
2,why didnt tfg notify its clients that rentals were crashing?
if you had of done at least we would have had longer to try andsell our units. as it is finding out at handover leaves us only 2.5 months in a very bad market.
3, why do you continue to advertise yasmin rak on your web site as a great place to invest etc etc. its outright fraud. but good for my legal case.

you advertise the right place, the right time, the right price in my experience it has been the wrong place,time and price!
4.why did you tell me that the wealth builder was still in place and good, when you were adviseing us to go in ther , transfering from white bay?
5, i have advised you and will be advising the directors of our intention not to be making any further payments to tfg, ie final 20%. as we are taking legal action against tfg 
.i have asked you what the concequences of this will be, ie penalties etc all of the details? you have failed to respond on this also.
6, what have the annual maintenance fees been in phase 1?
7, what are and have been the annual rental fees in phase 1?
8, do you intend to finish the development? and in what time frame?
9, have you tfg notified people in phase 3 of the wealth builders demise ie poor rentals?
10, why has your asset management team not reponded to our request to put whatever it is they are saying in writing? they have not even sent email through, ther is no communication from tfg at all either, hence this letter again?
11, how quickly did the rental market change in rak? over how many years or was it days?
12, what does tfg think will happen to both the rental market and property prices in rak in the next three years?

to all online readers who are following this, thanks for the feed back and comments so far. a copy of this email was alse forwarded to one of tfg directors danny lubert at the same time so lets see if they respond at all?
i shall post all responses on line for you to see.


----------



## Green Hornet

glover said:


> it's already taking care of. By law an apartment can be sold at a publlic auction if the owner fails to pay service charges.
> 
> RERA's Circular No.1 of 2010 deals with Service Charge for Jointly Owned Property, as stipulated in Law No. 27 of 2007.
> 
> Article (9) of the Circular states:
> 
> "9. Failure to pay Service Charge on time is a violation of the Law and may result in civil penalties including a lien being imposed over the Unit. Continued failure to pay the Service Charge may result in legal enforcement of the lien to recover Service Charges which may result in a public auction, with outstanding Service Charges being deducted from the selling price."


The reply from the buildings management company after I sent them your post.

----------------------------------------
Yes, this law is in place. 

Unfortunately what is preventing us from taking further action is that there are no legally constituted Owners Associations in Dubai. As yet RERA have not provided the facility for an OA to become a licensed, registered, entity so that it can (1) transfer the title of the underlying plot and building common areas into the name of the OA, (2) open a bank account, (3) enter into contracts, and (4) sue and be sued. Until such time there is no legal entity, the Owners Association, that can enter into legal proceedings.
​


----------



## Mistermark

Pleth said:


> I have invested in 2 *very bad *projects in Dubai, so I went to seek some answers from RERA. This is what I experienced:
> 
> In March this year I had a pleasant meeting with Mr. Marwan and Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei at RERA.
> They could not answer any of the questions but promised to come back with answers within a week.
> That day Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei gave me his so called "business card".
> 
> Months went by, I did not hear anything.
> I tried to ring the numbers on the business card 1000 times:
> Direct line +971 4 203 0266 = not direct - only getting through to the switch board
> Tel. +971 4 222 1112 switch board, then got through to complaints department (I thought) but that was only back to the switch board again.
> One lady at switch board gave me another number:
> +971 4 2030 263 but guess what it gets me through to the switch board again.
> I wrote many e-mails to Mr. Khalid, his e-mail address [email protected] was on the business card. But he never replied.
> So none of the info on the business card was actually working.
> 
> I drove down to RERA asking to talk to Mr. Khalid. But I was told I could not talk to him without booking a meeting. They told me I could do this through his secretary:
> tel. +971 4 2030 577 = Number is not working!
> E-mail [email protected] Name: Marwa Hassan Darwish Al Ozaibi
> I have written e-mails 5 times to her, she does not answer!
> 
> Are they doing it on purpose, having a meeting with investors, and then say "we will come back within a week with the answers!"??
> 
> Recently I got an e-mail address where I could file complaints:
> [email protected] I am guessing this e-mail address does not work either!?


It is tempting to believe that RERA exists to protect buyers of property in Dubai from dodgy developers. In fact, my experience is that it exists to protect dodgy developers from their customers, and to create a semblance of regulatory sanity to suck in other punters. Evidence? The large number of people whose experience of the organisation matches yours (and mine) - and the lack of warm testimonials from people who have actually got results out of them...


----------



## MarkWass

Pleth said:


> I have invested in 2 *very bad *projects in Dubai, so I went to seek some answers from RERA. This is what I experienced:
> 
> In March this year I had a pleasant meeting with Mr. Marwan and Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei at RERA.
> They could not answer any of the questions but promised to come back with answers within a week.
> That day Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei gave me his so called "business card".
> 
> Months went by, I did not hear anything.
> I tried to ring the numbers on the business card 1000 times:
> Direct line +971 4 203 0266 = not direct - only getting through to the switch board
> Tel. +971 4 222 1112 switch board, then got through to complaints department (I thought) but that was only back to the switch board again.
> One lady at switch board gave me another number:
> +971 4 2030 263 but guess what it gets me through to the switch board again.
> I wrote many e-mails to Mr. Khalid, his e-mail address [email protected] was on the business card. But he never replied.
> So none of the info on the business card was actually working.
> 
> I drove down to RERA asking to talk to Mr. Khalid. But I was told I could not talk to him without booking a meeting. They told me I could do this through his secretary:
> tel. +971 4 2030 577 = Number is not working!
> E-mail [email protected] Name: Marwa Hassan Darwish Al Ozaibi
> I have written e-mails 5 times to her, she does not answer!
> 
> Are they doing it on purpose, having a meeting with investors, and then say "we will come back within a week with the answers!"??
> 
> Recently I got an e-mail address where I could file complaints:
> [email protected] I am guessing this e-mail address does not work either!?


Hi Plet

I know exactly what you mean. In various investor groups that I am part of, we have written to Rouda Yunis from customer services and also Mr Khalid many times, as those two were also ones that we were given to contact. Also tried the phone 'game', but experienced similar issues to yourself. Not me personally, but some people I know have also tried to make face to face meeting at RERA either in advance, or simply just turning up at the offices during Dubai visits.

After all the above attempts, we're still none the wiser….


----------



## maximus1

*the first group, WE ARE NOT THREATENING YOU BUT?*

well i have just had a phone call this morning from david lewis tfg. 
i asked if tfg has or should have notified any of its clients that rentals were terrible and not as they had said.
david lewis replies, wether we should have communicated that things were bad, NO not from our companys stand point.
my question to him, have you ever as a company sent out email re poor performance to clients.
david lewis, reply NO. BECAUSE THE ONLY PROPERTY THAT WE HAVE COMPLETED ON IS THE DIAMOND, its fully sold out but rents and owners are dissapointed at returns they are getting?
things were said between us and went on a bit.
david lewis, says to me so you have spoken to a couple of investors?
me, yes i am posting my acccount online, as if i can save one person from going down the road i have gone down, its worth it.
DAVID LEWIS says, im not trying to threaten you in any way at all max, but we do know , and have ways of finding out whats going on line, and if we do not feel comfortable with whats being said we will take action to protect our corporate image.
im not try to threaten you but if we see somything we are not happy with we will have to take action.
me to him,
all i have ever said on line is the truth and i can prove it, and if we do end up in court ill only ever tell the truth and somone will listen to me.

we then went on a bit more, basically david lewis was saying that nothing could be done by tfg, and i went on to say ok put everything that we have discussed in writing as i shall be pursuing a legal route.
i shall try and work out a way of putting this telephone conversation on line so that all can hear.
if they do threaten me i shall let you all know what they say.
ill keep on posting
a copy of this is going to be forwarded to daany lubert one of the first groups directors


----------



## W40arx

Resent the email yesterday explaining the urgency but still to no avail.


----------



## True Blue

Green Hornet said:


> The reply from the buildings management company after I sent them your post.
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> Yes, this law is in place.
> 
> Unfortunately what is preventing us from taking further action is that there are no legally constituted Owners Associations in Dubai. As yet RERA have not provided the facility for an OA to become a licensed, registered, entity so that it can (1) transfer the title of the underlying plot and building common areas into the name of the OA, (2) open a bank account, (3) enter into contracts, and (4) sue and be sued. Until such time there is no legal entity, the Owners Association, that can enter into legal proceedings.
> ​


Sorry if I have missed some of the rest of this issue and my point may already have been covered.

If the Home owners associations have not yet been licensed, why do the managers not serve the notices and open cases against the non payers. All the managers/developers need to do is issue the invoices and reminder for non payment. If the OA is not yet the legal entity then the original developer must still be the entity in control:dunno:


----------



## True Blue

wittyman said:


> Does anbody have witnessed any application of this rule?
> 
> If there is not yet any owner's association can the managing develıoper do the same?
> 
> I have not paid last two year's management fee for an apartment as the developer invoiced the management fee together with a claim for an extra payment of AED 58,000 for the apartment being larger than it's original size in the contract. (And of course without proıviding any proof / measurement records etc. whatsoever.) They were sying they will go to court. But tey did not e-mail or send me any invitation for court. And did not send any notification via notary public.
> 
> Maybe I should check out nevertheless?? Any advice anyone?


If you do not pay anything then you will be savaged in the property courts. Expect to pay all the other parties costs, notary public fees, newspaper notice posting fees and court imposed penalty as per the law. By not paying anything you are in default and the courts will be happy to make an example of you.

If you pay what you think you fairly should pay, then it is a clear cut dispute which could fall either way. In which case, win or lose you may not be made to pay a penalty or the other sides costs.

What your argument is analagous to is saying that you were invoiced for a first class seat on the journey but actually only travelled second class so refuse to even pay the second class fare. Not a hope in hell of getting off Scot free!


----------



## glover

found a recent article that deals with this issue. Apparently, it seems that your developer has not yet supplied to the authorities all the legally required information to enact and legalized the OA, hence your problem and many others. 

maybe the management company is in the pockets of the developer and they are unfairly putting the blame on the law rather than the developer!!

some more info: "Finally, on the issue of recovering service charges by OAs, Lunjevich said: “There are many measures that can be taken that range from a friendly chat through to withholding access to facilities or liens over the property. Law 27 allows a fast track mechanism to serve a notice through the notary and then attach a lien to the property and this may allow sale by auction which is really the end game if someone is not paying their charges.”"

http://www.emirates247.com/property...ons-awaiting-legal-status-2011-06-22-1.404020

http://www.hadefpartners.com/News/pageid/120-137/default.aspx?mediaid=180



Green Hornet said:


> The reply from the buildings management company after I sent them your post.
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> Yes, this law is in place.
> 
> Unfortunately what is preventing us from taking further action is that there are no legally constituted Owners Associations in Dubai. As yet RERA have not provided the facility for an OA to become a licensed, registered, entity so that it can (1) transfer the title of the underlying plot and building common areas into the name of the OA, (2) open a bank account, (3) enter into contracts, and (4) sue and be sued. Until such time there is no legal entity, the Owners Association, that can enter into legal proceedings.
> ​


----------



## W40arx

Sorry, I didn't resent it, I re-sent it!!!


----------



## Flintbug

OK we all must pay service charges.....but who is entitled to receive them?

The Owners Association is clearly the correct party if they have been legally established. 

However if they are not legally established, why does everyone believe they should pay a dodgy developer that has already ripped them off on the sale?
That is if the dodgy developer is even still using their original limited company name!

If RERA gave out clear legal statement to everyone where service charges should be paid then I for one will sleep a lot more comfortably. I see no reason to believe any correspondence I receive from a proven lying cheating developer!


----------



## MarkWass

Not meaning to reignite the recent debate between Glover and TerryPop, though fairly clear which side's 'logic' I clearly don't accept, for anyone who read my recent posts... But does anyone who actually works in the industry in Dubai, and who is not biased (eg Imre or 234sale), can give us an indication of how the trend in recent transactions (investors vs owner occupiers) is going?

I guess I could write to Cluttons or other real estate consultancies who research the dubai r.e. market, to ask them the same question, but I'm being lazy...

I suspect that for the much needed owner-occs (and indeed tenants) to challenge the supply pipeline, the govt may need to rethink their game-plan, in terms of proactive measures to encourage immigration? Media, PR etc is not enough...


----------



## 234sale

I have been renting units since Jan this year,, 10% of tenants either dropped the tenancy,, or wanted to leave since that date.. They are leaving Dubai,, 

But those who go are still replaced by fresh faces..


----------



## MarkWass

Face81 said:


> b) obviously...


I assume by ^^ you mean between:

(a) protect *all* including *existing* cheated property buyers, many of whom still have nothing to show for the money they coughed up
and
(b) protect *only future* property buyers from being cheated

They will choose to go for option (b)?

If they go for option (a), although much harder implement, confidence should return to the market in a few years time. However, if they go for option (b), it may take decades…


----------



## MarkWass

Well, maybe not decades, as people have short memories, but a lot longer than just 2 or 3 years..


----------



## speculator

glover said:


> ^^^^ right, the same exact thing was said at the beginning of the financial crisis. dubai and other developing markets will not be affected much!! and look where we are now!!!
> 
> Didn't you say just few days ago that prices are going up in abu dhabi!!! can you share with us where you got your information from! or are you a desperate investor stuck with some properties who does not want, or its too painful for him/her, to acknowledge reality.
> 
> buying property now in selective ares in dubai for rental income and long term hold is a good investment. but anyone who takes for granted that the real estate market in Dubai will go back to the levels of the pre-financial crisis should have his head examined imo.


The desperation is obvious from your side. I am calm and simply holding and collecting my rents. Thats always been my strategy but the the peak got the better of me. 
I am in Al reef in Abu Dhabi and the rents have increased since the crisis. Perhaps the same is not true of the sky highs. My experience in Dubai is that the rents in good locations are holding strong. I cant think of any place else where the prospects are better for real estate. Income is more than fair and appreciation is on the horizon. Anyway like I said I only care for income these days. Perhaps you should come over here to old Blighty and experience how buoyant things are here. Buoyant as a dead cat.


----------



## speculator

july said:


> Dear forumers,I read your posts and comments on daily basis,hoping to hear about some signs of recovery.Like many here,I bought an apartment hoping that some day I can help my kids with the rent money.Very wrong..not only the apartment value dropped much,the rent is also low,after paying the maintenance fees is not much thing left.I know we should wait and hold on to the property but is very difficult for us..we live in Europe,we have no control over what happens there with our apartment,and how our tenant keeps it.So we have decided to sell it at a fair price in the present situation.Personally I lost my trust forever in Dubai and its institutions,we were made so many promises and nothing came true,no visa(which was granted in our contract),no appliances etc etc.We were asked to pay extra fees as they refused to hand over if we didn't..In a word many things in Dubai smell like scam,from top to bottom..a rip off.I apologize to those who have another opinion,maybe they were luckier.Anyway thing is that trying to sell our apartment thru a real estate agency we were told that the price is around 500 DH per square foot,which I think that it is too low.Our apartment is located in Jumeirah Lake Towers,Icon Tower,22nd floor,2 beds 2 baths 970 sqf,we payed for it in 2006 800 DH per sqf. Now we are offered 500 DH/sqf.I googled on dubizzle but NO apartment like ours was 500 k DH.I called to a real estate agent posting an AD on dubizzle,for an apartment 1400 sqf at 530 DH/sqf,and he said its sold.I called another and I got the same reply.All these apartment for sale are for real?Or is just a 'scam' from real estate agents,pressing the prices to go down so they can have more deals?
> Please dear forumers if you know a good agency/agencies recommend them..we really want to make a honest deal and get in touch with professional people.Thank you very much,I know it is a long post but we really need your advice.I wish you all a very good week


Why do you want to sell ? OK you are pissed of with the fake promises but thats hardly any commercial sense. Why not hold and rent; if you dont need the money. 
I think medium term you will regret it if you sell now. The time is to hold.

Oh & those adverts you refer to YES they are fake only designed to get you on the database.


----------



## Face81

MarkWass said:


> I assume by ^^ you mean between:
> 
> (a) protect *all* including *existing* cheated property buyers, many of whom still have nothing to show for the money they coughed up
> and
> (b) protect *only future* property buyers from being cheated
> 
> They will choose to go for option (b)?
> 
> If they go for option (a), although much harder implement, confidence should return to the market in a few years time. However, if they go for option (b), it may take decades…





MarkWass said:


> Well, maybe not decades, as people have short memories, but a lot longer than just 2 or 3 years..


Changing the past is too hard and far too complicated. A change now will benefit all future developers and investors. Makes sense and is a positive, albeit reactive, step in the right direction.


----------



## july

*Many thanks!*

Thank you for your time dear forumers,and specially to Imre and Speculator...I don't need the money desperately and yes I could consider renting further more but you are right, Speculator,all this situation just pissed me off a lot. I really don't know from where to start finding a good tenant because my previous experience with the present tenant isn't great. Where can I find a reliable source about rent value of my apartment?Dubizzle can't be trusted unfortunately . I decided also to settle on one payment(one cheque) a year, even if I get less money . Is it possible to find a tenant willing to pay the maintenance expenses and pay to me only the rest of the agreed rent? Because I'm far and its hard for me to handle all these fees and more fees and more meters and bla bla that appear every few months . If possible please recommend me a reliable agent/agency to deal with,or reliable people who can take in charge .I simply can't travel to Dubai to solve these things myself,my work schedules are very strikt.Any advice,guidance,etc,is highly appreciated .
Thank you once more,I wish you all a very good week :cheers:


----------



## W40arx

******DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO TO ADD?????


----------



## True Blue

^^Sounds like you need to employ a good property management company to take the hassle away from you.


----------



## FWIW

july said:


> Thank you for your time dear forumers,and specially to Imre and Speculator...I don't need the money desperately and yes I could consider renting further more but you are right, Speculator,all this situation just pissed me off a lot. I really don't know from where to start finding a good tenant because my previous experience with the present tenant isn't great. Where can I find a reliable source about rent value of my apartment?Dubizzle can't be trusted unfortunately . I decided also to settle on one payment(one cheque) a year, even if I get less money . Is it possible to find a tenant willing to pay the maintenance expenses and pay to me only the rest of the agreed rent? Because I'm far and its hard for me to handle all these fees and more fees and more meters and bla bla that appear every few months . If possible please recommend me a reliable agent/agency to deal with,or reliable people who can take in charge .I simply can't travel to Dubai to solve these things myself,my work schedules are very strikt.Any advice,guidance,etc,is highly appreciated .
> Thank you once more,I wish you all a very good week :cheers:


I recommend you speak to either imre or better homes @ bhomes.com

Also if you cannot travel then look to use Www.poaservice.com to sort out things or you.

Good luck. - I personally use bhomes but have not yet needed to use the poaservice.


----------



## Green Hornet

glover said:


> buying property now in selective ares in dubai for rental income and long term hold is a good investment. but anyone who takes for granted that the real estate market in dubai will go back to the levels of the pre-financial crisis should have his head examined imo.


How can anyone seriously predict where the real estate market will go.
The real estate market in Dubai has no history.Dubai is almost like a brand new city with so many of its buildings having gone up in the last few years only.
Whos to say prices won't level out at 10/20% lower than what they are now and stay there for years.
Will we be looking at 1 beds in the marina renting for 30k soon,1 bed discovery gardens at 18k,3 bed arabian ranch villas at 70k.I mean it just seems to be going down down down.
How long before the rent doesnt even cover service fees.
Building may be right down on what it used to be thank god but then theres a huge oversupply keeping everything down.
Is the population rising and how many years before theres enough new people to take up these units and rent/buy. 
The goverment is doing nothing to help and theres rarely any good news that comes out of dubai.
Its looking like a minimum of 5 years before things might begin to improve.
Buy in Dubai?only if you're brain dead.


----------



## dubayyy

*RAK Credit Notes*

Does anybody have any idea what Rakeen/Rakia credit notes are currently fetching in the market? Thanks


----------



## Josau

Would be interesting to know, how much foreign investment was lost in real estate in the UAE over the past 7 years. Anybody got an idea on this matter? Especially Ajman, who had not much anything else to sell but its desert must have cashed in tremendously on worthless stretches of sand. It's the art of making money with really... nothing.


----------



## bister

So SkinnyGirl, you denied any thought of Sunland "running for the hills"? Having PV on local/regional hands can not be welcome news for investors.

Meanwhile, the guys from Sunland are back at the Gold Coast washing off the dust of a miserable Arabian Adventure......


----------



## bister

*Over to you Skinny......*

With todays article in Arabian Business I believe one of Sunlands most adamant supporters should come clean and at least apologize to the many on this thread being concerned about the commitment from Sunland. Please see below, recent post from Skinny:



skinnygirl said:


> So...Sunland are heading for the hills?! Any evidence of that? Any evidence of anything to substantiate the scaremongering?
> 
> Some positive news:
> 
> The following Article appeared in the magazine "The Rich Traveller" dated 31 August 2011
> 
> Fashion designers continue to showcase their designs in hotel rooms with Signore Armani opening in Milano this fall, a London Bulgari Hotel scheduled for early 2012 and Dubai’s Palazzo Versace, which is expected to debut in early 2012
> 
> With 213 suites, 169 private residences, a spa, a Versace ready-to-wear and jewelry boutique, fine Italian dining and a private marina, a number of pools including a lagoon pool, ornamental pools, reflecting ponds, and, of course, private pools, the Palazzo Versace is designed as a mini Versailles, more than a hotel.
> 
> The hotel recently unveiled its first show residences and making debut was 4,732 sq ft of private living space designed in unabashedly flaunts lavish colors, glamour and design, centered on a grand reception room, while mosaics, marble floors, and exclusive Versace furniture fill up the residences.
> 
> Truly the hotel will carry forward the grandiosity and flamboyance of Gianni Versace through the halls of the Palazzo Versace. This will be one to watch out for!


----------



## sidxb

Green Hornet said:


> Will we be looking at 1 beds in the marina renting for 30k soon,1 bed discovery gardens at 18k,3 bed arabian ranch villas at 70k.I mean it just seems to be going down down down.


... and and we will be getting ads in gulfnews something like 
"Rent an apartment in international city to earn weekly income ( we also provide daily and monthly packages )" :nuts:


----------



## True Blue

Hi quality apartments in the marina are not going down and down. They are pretty much holding their own after the correction in rental values of 2 years ago. Yes some JBR units without a view will be cheaper but thats only because there are so many of them and that creates competition.


----------



## glover

*1,000 times worse than Dubai*

_hope these predictions don't come true. it will be a disaster for the global economy. but caution is advised here._

--------------------------
*Chanos: China’s hard-landing has already begun*
China’s bust will be a thousand times worse than Dubai
HEDGE FUNDS
Oct. 17, 2011, 10:21 p.m. EDT


By Sue Chang, MarketWatch
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — China is heading into an economic storm, and the much-feared hard-landing of the world’s second-largest economy has already started, warned celebrated hedge-fund manager and China-bear Jim Chanos of Kynikos Associates on Monday.

“The numbers are falling faster than we thought,” said Chanos during an exclusive interview with MarketWatch on the sidelines of the 7th Annual New York Value Investing Congress.

Tips for an extended bear market
History shows that periods of high returns in the market are followed by extended periods of lower returns, says Capital Guardian Wealth Management's Tony Montanari.

“Real estate sales in September and October, which are peak months, fell 40%-60% on-year,” he said.

Chanos also pointed out that Chinese financial and real-estate stocks are down 30% from their peak, while cement and steel prices are declining.

“People are buying into the idea of perpetual growth,” Chanos said. “But they have to ask, ‘Are you really growing?’”

Chanos stressed that investors should understand that there is no bailout without a cost.

“The only way the Chinese government can continue to bail out everyone is to print more money, which will lead to inflation. But people are depositing money [in banks] at below inflation,” the fund manager said.

Chanos had already suggested back in May that there were clear signs of excess supply in China’s commercial real-estate sector.

About 14% of office space in Beijing and 9% in Shanghai was vacant, according to data he cited at the time.

“Western investors must remember that Chinese consumers are not the next big hope,” he said.

*1,000 times worse than Dubai*

Chanos has consistently said China’s bust will be a thousand times worse than Dubai.

“It’s very hard to let air out of a property bubble without collateral damage,” he said.

Chanos also expressed concerns about the country’s banking sector.

The Chinese economy is adding $2 trillion of new debt every year, and half of that is problematic from day one, he said.

And since only 50% of the problematic debt is recoverable, about $500 billion, or 10% of gross domestic product, is bad debt, he said.

Last week, China’s sovereign-wealth fund bought about $31.5 million worth of stakes in the nation’s “Big Four” lenders — Agricultural Bank of China Ltd. HK:1288 -7.87% CN:601288 +0.38% , Bank of China Ltd. HK:3988 -4.74% CN:601988 +0.33% BACHY -3.18% , Industrial & Commercial Bank of China Ltd. HK:1398 -6.05% CN:601398 +0.48% IDCBF -3.64% , and China Construction Bank HK:939 -4.39% CN:601939 +0.22% CICHF -2.27% . See report on China’s purchase of banking shares.

The move is a likely indication of which banks the Chinese authorities are worried about, according to Chanos.

In his earlier presentation at Monday’s conference, he cautioned Western investors to remember that politics are a big part of business in China, and that in effect, banks are instruments of state policy.

He also reiterated the message that the house always wins when it comes to foreign investors and China. Remember how they treat Western investors, he said.

“History has not been on our side,” he said.

During the interview, he briefly revisited that particular theme. “Corruption is endemic there. Contracts are meaningless,” Chanos said. 

Sue Chang is a MarketWatch reporter in San Francisco.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chanos-chinas-hard-landing-has-already-begun-2011-10-17


----------



## Morrismarina

glover said:


> Last week, China’s sovereign-wealth fund bought about *$31.5 million *worth of stakes in the nation’s “Big Four” lenders —


Is that all .......not even peanuts........ nothing to worry about here then !! :lol:



glover said:


> During the interview, he briefly revisited that particular theme. “Corruption is endemic there. Contracts are meaningless,” Chanos said.


Just like Dubai then :lol:


----------



## W40arx

Guys, people need to be more active and update this thread even if there is nothing to report!


----------



## MMDXB

I will visit RERA tomorrow and file a complaint. Well I will pressure them with that and that I'm in contact with other buyers who are complaining. Further I heard from someone who complaint to his consulate and that he his in trouble after investing in Dubai, so they did some action and some calls and he got his request trough. Actually no idea which Developer or Project but it was british consulate. Anyone experience with that ?


----------



## glover

_45% decline in transactions year over year, wow!! and i thought the market is better this year than last!_
-------------------------------------------------

*Dubai real estate deals down as investors stay wary
*By Elizabeth Broomhall
Sunday, 23 October 2011 10:03 AM

Transactions in Dubai’s battered property market fell by 45 percent in the third quarter of the year as wary investors stayed on the sidelines, real estate consultancy CBRE has said.

The number of residential deals tumbled to 1,459 in the quarter, down from 2,648 in the year-earlier period, despite rents in the emirate’s prime developments showing signs of steadying.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/duba...s-investors-stay-wary-426568.html?tab=Article


----------



## Green Hornet

On the one hand I'm staggered the Dubai goverment have done absolutely nothing to help the property market.They invited people to invest and had everyone assume they were going to create this amazing city.
On the other hand when a goverment is as incompentent and hopeless as this one that they even screw up their own finances and reach virtual bankruptcy then what can you expect.
The worldwide slump didn't help matters but it doesn't stop the goverment from trying to go some way to rectifying the situation.
A complete ban on any new residential buildings 3 years ago would have been a small start.


----------



## True Blue

Green Hornet said:


> On the one hand I'm staggered the Dubai goverment have done absolutely nothing to help the property market.They invited people to invest and had everyone assume they were going to create this amazing city.
> On the other hand when a goverment is as incompentent and hopeless as this one that they even screw up their own finances and reach virtual bankruptcy then what can you expect.
> The worldwide slump didn't help matters but it doesn't stop the goverment from trying to go some way to rectifying the situation.
> *A complete ban on any new residential buildings 3 years ago would have been a small start*.


Everyone is an expert with the benefit of hindsight. 3 years ago the market was full(fool) steam ahead. Using simple economics, when you have prices overheating due to greed driven demand and you then decide to restrict supply, you are going to send the market from overheating into hyperspace. Stopping lending was the answer and it happened naturally as the banks ran out of cash. As did the government!

BTW, Re the comments about the local government being financialy incompetent; Dubai's debt levels are manageable in the short to medium term. Europe, USA and UK will take tens of years to recover. In fact I watched a documentary recently which said it will take at least 20 years for the UK to recover from the mistakes of the Labour government. And yet only 2 years later the man on the streets is now saying you can not keep blaming the Labour government. YES YOU CAN!


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> Everyone is an expert with the benefit of hindsight.


There can be no one more guilty of that than yourself TB, surely?! (You know exactly what I'm talking about... :lol: )


----------



## True Blue

^^ "Everyone" was the first word I used 

To be honest i don't know what you are specifically referring to, I always said from day one that a developer I could Select, was a bit dodgy, was overcharging and had no track record for delivering quality, so was well worth a watching. Is that it ?

In my defence, many people took my investment advice many years ago and have thanked me for it, others have been manu enough to say they wished they had taken my advice (with the benefit of hindsight :lol

Sorry about that typo :laugh:


----------



## Spurs

As of the 24/07/11:

http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/jsp/...gressIndicator/945_3.jpg&projectName=Progress Indicator of The%20Royal%20Estates

So if they are only developing part of the project can the people in the part that has not started get there money back?


----------



## Green Hornet

True Blue said:


> Everyone is an expert with the benefit of hindsight. 3 years ago the market was full(fool) steam ahead. Using simple economics, when you have prices overheating due to greed driven demand and you then decide to restrict supply, you are going to send the market from overheating into hyperspace. Stopping lending was the answer and it happened naturally as the banks ran out of cash. As did the government!
> 
> BTW, Re the comments about the local government being financialy incompetent; Dubai's debt levels are manageable in the short to medium term. Europe, USA and UK will take tens of years to recover. In fact I watched a documentary recently which said it will take at least 20 years for the UK to recover from the mistakes of the Labour government. And yet only 2 years later the man on the streets is now saying you can not keep blaming the Labour government. YES YOU CAN!


 
Its not about being an expert with the benefit of hindsight.
3 years ago the market was beginning to slow down from what I remember.The worldwide economic downturn was on the cards and the Dubai goverment thought they were immune.Certainly 2.5 years ago the Dubai real estate was on the decline so this was def a time to cease building.On its own obviously this wouldn't have been the answer but maybe it would have helped.
As for the Dubai's debt levels,lucky for them big brother AD bailed them out with a little public humiliation thrown in.
Even back in 2008 when prices were continuing to go up up up I believe most people reckoned it wouldn't be long before the bubble burst and most reports suggested so.Why did the Dubai goverment therefore continue to act recklessly.
How also do we know the goverments debt is manageable when there is no transparency in most things to do with Dubai.We are all fed bullshit.How many times have you read the debt is far greater than what the goverment would have people believe.


----------



## Imre

*Dubai restarts infrastructure work on the Palm Jebel Ali*

Posted on 22 October 2011 

For the past three years since the global financial crisis dealt a fatal blow to the Dubai real estate bubble the Palm Jebel Ali has been an unmissable reminder of the Vision of Dubai gone wrong.

From the air you can see the tops of the first fronds eroding in the sea. From the shoreline you can see the abandoned work on the highway that was to sweep into this huge manmade island, several times bigger than the mainly completed and world famous Palm Jumeirah.

Infrastructure package

But anybody looking across from the Jebel Ali Hotel today can see that work has resumed on the access roads. The concrete supports for this elevated highway are being built. The contractor’s signboard is back up and the heavy lifting cranes are at work.

Nakheel’s financial restructuring was completed this summer and the developer, now very clearly owned by the Dubai Government, is getting back to work to build the Vision of Dubai. There does not appear to have been an official announcement but the evidence of your own eyes is always the most accurate.

This is both a symbolic and practical step forward. First, the restarting of infrastructure work on the Palm Jebel Ali is a tangible sign of Dubai’s recovery from the long recession that followed the real estate crash, with trade, tourism and aviation leading the upturn this year and an influx of money and people due to the Arab Spring.

Practical step

Secondly, the Palm Jebel Ali is a useless pile of sand in the sea without access roads. It makes sense to get them constructed, whether or not the original development plans for the island are scaled down. The redesigning of this island as the focal point of the highly ambitious Waterfront project, launched to be larger than Hong Kong, can proceed at the same time.

On the other hand, Dubai observers from abroad will also be watching to see if the emirate has learnt from its past mistakes. Will it concentrate on getting the most commercially viable schemes completed one by one, or fritter its money away by trying to do too much in one go?

Nakheel has a lot to do to convince its critics that this is a reformed company that will prove a reliable business partner in the future, delivering what is promised in a timely fashion and on budget. Let us hope restarting the infrastructure works on the Palm Jebel Ali is an auspicious sign.


http://www.arabianmoney.net/gcc-eco...ts-infrastructure-work-on-the-palm-jebel-ali/


----------



## True Blue

My comments in Blue.



Green Hornet said:


> Its not about being an expert with the benefit of hindsight. OK so 3 years ago were you posting that construction work should stop? A lot of the work did stop, Palm Jebel Ali and most of Nakheels projects amounting to $Billions worth of construction ground to a halt.
> 
> 3 years ago the market was beginning to slow down from what I remember.The worldwide economic downturn was on the cards and the Dubai goverment thought they were immune.Certainly 2.5 years ago the Dubai real estate was on the decline so this was def a time to cease building.On its own obviously this wouldn't have been the answer but maybe it would have helped. You have to understand that the momentum of Dubai could not be stopped overnight. I think they knew things were bad but this was all new ground for Dubai. The property market was at it's peak so the sentiment was that they could ride it out as most of the investment was coming from wealthy foreigners. It was only when people began to default against spiraling construction costs that they realised they had a serious problem on the horizon. After that the government backed developers started to default on their contractual obligations and the crisis became crystal clear. I am not aware of any new projects launched after 2008. Any which were sold by developers upto that time had a commitment and obligation to complete the works.
> 
> As for the Dubai's debt levels,lucky for them big brother AD bailed them out with a little public humiliation thrown in. It wasn't just AD who bailed them out, they had started to borrow from UK banks and Far East banks.
> 
> Even back in 2008 when prices were continuing to go up up up I believe most people reckoned it wouldn't be long before the bubble burst and most reports suggested so.Why did the Dubai goverment therefore continue to act recklessly. Again the momentum created could not be stopped overnight, that is why they requested the stand still period to let the dust settle.
> 
> How also do we know the goverments debt is manageable when there is no transparency in most things to do with Dubai.We are all fed bullshit.How many times have you read the debt is far greater than what the goverment would have people believe. True, I can't argue about the lack of transparency, however I have a friend who is a news editor with the biggest financial newswire agencies in the world and he tells me that on a global scale it is manageable. There are bigger problems else where in the world economy and that is why Dubai is not so newsworthy


----------



## Imre

*Global woes stall Dubai real estate recovery further *










Oct 24, 2011 at 11:13 

By Praveen Menon, Reuters 
DUBAI, Oct 24 (Reuters) - Dubai's housing market will witness further delays in its recovery path and plummet another 10 percent, as it faces a slowdown amid renewed global financial woes and European sovereign debt crisis, a Reuters poll showed on Monday.

Home prices and rents in the Gulf emirate has already plunged nearly 60 percent from its peak before the global financial crisis.

Residential property prices in Dubai will fall 70 percent from a peak in the third quarter of 2008, according to the median estimate of ten banks, investment firms and research institutions.

"Although we have witnessed better volumes and slight increase in prices at few property transactions, the overall sector is still facing oversupply and lack of volumes/investor interest, which acts as a headwind against price increase," said Harshit Oza of Beltone Financial.

All but one of the 10 respondents said the renewed global economic concerns and euro zone crisis will further delay recovery of Dubai's property market.

The lack of confidence on Dubai real estate continues to weigh. Respondents in the poll saw no chance of a recovery this year. They gave just a 37 percent of property market recovery in 2012 and a 70 percent chance in 2013.

Prices in Dubai will plummet by another 10 percent, an average of eight respondents showed.

http://en.news.maktoob.com/20090001...ubai_real_estate_recovery_further/Article.htm


----------



## Green Hornet

Regardless of my opinions 3 years ago those 'experts'in the Dubai goverment shouldn't have been so arrogant so as to believe the global downturn wouldn't reach Dubai.
Def 2.5 years ago like so many people I believed building where possible should have come to a halt.'Where possible'.Even if with so many units completed or near completion this wouldn't have had a massive effect, just a step in the right direction.
As far as I'm aware with my limited knowledge AD was Dubais main financial backer.

Dubais debt being 'manageable'would suggest no spare money to help any kind of recovery.
So are you saying the goverment have no blame for what happened and also there's nothing they can do to help the situation?


----------



## Green Hornet

Imre said:


> The lack of confidence on Dubai real estate continues to weigh. Respondents in the poll saw no chance of a recovery this year. They gave just a 37 percent of property market recovery in 2012
> http://en.news.maktoob.com/20090001...ubai_real_estate_recovery_further/Article.htm


37 percent ? Shouldn't that be 3.7?


----------



## MarkWass

TB, the 'hindsight' thing I was specifically referring to in your case, was it's all very well saying years down the line that basically, most developers (regardless of their track record) in Dubai could now not be trusted, after they have proven they cannot be trusted. Apart from of course the developers, that you (the great TB) chose to invest with… :cheers:

Sure, the impact of the global economic downturn is having a negative effect on liquidity of available funds into Dubai, and obvious repercussions. That would have always been the case. A location that will require a lot of external investment in to the region, for the foreseeable future, will always be affected by the wider global economy positively or negatively. But surely that cannot be used an excuse not to adopt some very basic regulatory measures and ensure they are properly enforced, to control the many cheating, stealing developers, who are not exactly helping to show the world that it is a safe place to invest?

The government need to put a stop to this, because for all their PR departments efforts and campaigns, this basic lack of effective regulation is creating far, far worse PR…


----------



## MarkWass

Ps Canny investors 'on the ground' can theoretically do ok / or better... in the short term, at many stages of the 'cycle' in very specific locations and 'product' where the supply / demand conditions are 'right' at the point that investment is made.

But the short term potential benefits to a few, assuming there were, is of no concern to the treasury / govt (although the billions and billions of cheated investors money locked away, in theory anyway, in Escrow, yet still technically in the economy, will be of concern to them, I would imagine). However they need to start adopting a longer term approach to create a safer investment arena, for their own benefit, to at least allow a longer term vibrant property market to exist.

I guess it's a little boring stating the obvious...


----------



## Green Hornet

MarkWass said:


> A location that will require a lot of external investment in to the region, for the foreseeable future, will always be affected by the wider global economy positively or negatively. But surely that cannot be used an excuse not to adopt some very basic regulatory measures and ensure they are properly enforced, to control the many cheating, stealing developers, who are not exactly helping to show the world that it is a safe place to invest?


:cheers:


----------



## MarkWass

BTW TB, no it was not the developer that you Selected, that I was referring to regarding your previous after-the-event advice. It was another. And regardless of what advice you may or may not have given to another ..ahem.. manu investor.. it is not *simply* about Selecting the right developer. 

I reserved with a cross section of developers, in terms of risk, location, track record, and 'product', 6 in total, but they are all similar. It all comes down to regulation. Or rather lack of..

And for those people, who think the 'already built' market could not possibly be affected by the 'off-plan rogues', and lack of regulation, although the 'former' may do OK in the short to medium term in certain specific location and types. But longer term the already built market will depend on continued demand, and that that 'demand' see Dubai as 'safe' in the future.

If the off plan market still remains effectively completely unregulated for much longer, although *some* small investor types like your good self, could potentially do 'ok' in terms of short to medium term gains,* BUT *in the longer term, I honestly do not know what the govt are thinking will happen. But I think I 've got an idea…


----------



## Ahmed N

W40arx said:


> Guys, people need to be more active and update this thread even if there is nothing to report!


I have justed returned back from Dubai. 

Its was very dissapointing that NO construction or activity took place whilst we were there. I managed to speak to Mr Hassan (head person - the developer).

He said that he is constantly having to deal with issues such as:-

-neighbours complaining about noise.
-he has to request permission each and every time he needs to bring in materials, trucks, concrete etc.
-he has to request permits each and every time he brings in concrete, and also is required to give notice to neighbours in advance.
-he had limited space around the building to bring in steel etc.
-not enough hours in the day!!!

So overall this is delaying the construction. 

I did not see any activity at all whilst I was there for 10 days. I saw a number of other projects in Dubai working around the clock - but not Dubai Star - not even any work during the day.

Mr Hassan said that they are commited to completing the Dubai Star. He is working closely with RERA on the project.

I think we all need to put pressure on RERA, ACI and the developer to get things moving - otherwise we will have to wait for ever.....


----------



## FWIW

glover said:


> 45% decline in transactions year over year, wow!! and i thought the market is better this year than last!
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> Dubai real estate deals down as investors stay wary
> By Elizabeth Broomhall
> Sunday, 23 October 2011 10:03 AM
> 
> Transactions in Dubai’s battered property market fell by 45 percent in the third quarter of the year as wary investors stayed on the sidelines, real estate consultancy CBRE has said.
> 
> The number of residential deals tumbled to 1,459 in the quarter, down from 2,648 in the year-earlier period, despite rents in the emirate’s prime developments showing signs of steadying.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-real-estate-deals-down-as-investors-stay-wary-426568.html?tab=Article


What goes up, must come down and what goes down, must come up. The tricky part is working out if we are really at top/bottom and what Ben dabernank money printer will do next...


----------



## Monument

FWIW said:


> What goes up, must come down and what goes down, must come up. The tricky part is working out if we are really at top/bottom and what Ben dabernank money printer will do next...


Singapore property crashed in 1997. Recovery only began to come through in 2005. And of course it is now at record levels. Similar in Hong Kong after the crash in 1997. 

In other words real estate recovery after terrible crashes takes many years to recover - 8-10 years.

Anyone in Dubai who has illusions Dubai will be faster to recover needs a healthy does of reality shoved down their throat. 

But we can all be dreamers.


----------



## Green Hornet

Face81 said:


> Mohammad Bin Rashid endorses Dh2 billion tourism project


What a total f.....g waste of time.


----------



## Face81

Green Hornet said:


> If your estimation is correct then you would agree it makes more sense to invest in the UK market than in Dubai where its predicted prices could fall another 10-20%.


I would not invest anywhere at the moment. Things in the UK are extremely volatile given the Eurozone situation. One false move by Sarkozy and Merkel and the UK, like the rest of the EU will slip striaght back in to recession, dragging the world's economies with them. 

Money is far safer under your mattress than it would be in bricks and mortar. 

This is not the time for investment in the West, or the Middle East. Far East markets on the other hand are showing a lot more promise, although again, the supposed "hard landing" for China may hurt growth there and everywhere else.


----------



## Face81

Looks like Port Raashid is finally going to move forward with the announcement of the expansion of the cruise terminal facilities and building of a new resort on the island.....



THE DUBAI GUYS said:


> from today's papers...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R





Face81 said:


> ^^ WOW!!!!
> 
> It looks stunning! Love that massive resort on the corner. Very Madinat Jumeirah esque.....
> 
> Back to basics for Dubai. Good to see them doing what they do best. Tourism and hospitality. Not a commercial building in sight! Excellent!


----------



## True Blue

Face81 said:


> I would not invest anywhere at the moment. Things in the UK are extremely volatile given the Eurozone situation. One falso move by Sarkozy and Merkel and the UK, like the rest of th eEU will slip striaght back in to recession, dragging the world's economies with them.
> 
> *Money is far safer under your mattress than it would be in bricks and mortar.*
> 
> This is not the time for investment in the West, or the Middle East. Far East markets on the other hand are showing a lot more promise, although again, the supposed "hard landing" for China may hurt growth there and everywhere else.


I nearly got caught out with that one. I had a lot of money sitting in a bank account while I decided what bricks and mortar I was going to buy with it. Then there was some turmoil with the banks in the UK and I later found out the bank had crashed and had to be bailed out by the UK government. I would only have got £30k back if the government did not refloat the bank. 

So cash or money on deposit is not without risk, bricks and mortar is relatively safer at this point in time as long as you are careful what you buy.


----------



## Face81

*Ahoy Dubai: Gulf city to expand cruise ship port*

By ADAM SCHRECK 


The Associated Press 

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — Dubai is significantly expanding its cruise ship port in an effort to attract more seafaring tourists to the city's Persian Gulf shores.

Dubai's port operator DP World laid out plans Wednesday to open a second cruise ship terminal at the downtown Port Rashid by the end of 2012 to allow up to five cruise liners to dock at a time. The port can handle only two cruise ships at once now.

DP World Chairman Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem told reporters gathered at the waterfront terminal that the expansion is needed to keep up with a mushrooming demand from cruise operators hoping to anchor in the emirate. Slots for up to seven ships are envisioned for the future.

Dubai's existing cruise terminal handled 120 ships and more than 390,000 passengers in 2010, according to DP World. The city's Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing expects that number to grow to 180 ships and 625,000 passengers by 2015.

Officials say the expansion is part of a broader redevelopment of the port that will include the addition of shopping and recreation facilities. Conceptual drawings show green, tree-filled parks and buildings featuring traditional Gulf architecture, but officials said details for the project are still being worked out.

They didn't say how much it would cost.

*Port Rashid is the current home of the Queen Elizabeth 2, the famed British liner Dubai bought in 2007 for $100 million. It's docked just opposite the existing cruise terminal.

Dubai had planned to turn the ship into a floating hotel, but it dropped those plans when the emirate's economy began to sour in 2008. Bin Sulayem declined to discuss the ship's fate when asked about it Wednesday.

"The QE2 is sitting there. It's not going anywhere," he said.*

___

October 26, 2011 12:51 PM EDT 


http://www.ajc.com/travel/ahoy-dubai-gulf-city-1210485.html


----------



## Philippa C

Dubai launches $1bn property fund


http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/dubai-launches-1bn-property-fund

Sounds positive.


----------



## Face81

Philippa C said:


> Dubai launches $1bn property fund
> 
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/dubai-launches-1bn-property-fund
> 
> Sounds positive.


They will probably target completed developments, with guaranteed revenue schemes, so perhaps lots of non freehold commercial stuff and maybe some select resi developments.


----------



## gerald.d

Philippa C said:


> It would be great if they'd put some money into Dubailand and get the theme parks going. That would really bring in the tourists.


Patience.


----------



## 234sale

^^ lol.. but he's likely right..


----------



## MarkWass

Perhaps it would have been a better commercial plan to have encouraged / phase in a start of development in Dubailand, that could actually work, rather than overdosing on the office and resi towers that may always struggle to find occupiers?


----------



## Green Hornet

To launch new projects that include more resi and commercial units right now defies belief and proves those in charge of Dubai really are total idiots.


----------



## Green Hornet

Face81 said:


> "Stop is not part of the vocabulary in Dubai " Shaikh Maktoum said.


No but 'deluded moron' def is.


----------



## VR6

Just found this forum very interesting info here. As per Spurs' comment is there any comeback on the monies invested so far? Is there anything via the government that can be done, perhaps leverage them to support failed national projects with foreign investment?
Perhaps some of you know about the Knight Wazir scandal where many people lost much of their life savings. The chap responsible was also investing in Dubai, trading in Forex and all sorts. Unfortunately he seems to have disappeared from the face of the earth, so we are not the only ones who have invested in not-so-well-managed investments. 

Coming back to ASI, I would be intersted to know thoughts and suggested actions


----------



## Dubai_Steve

gerald.d said:


> Patience.


:lol: how many more years?


----------



## dirtyharry1

Green Hornet said:


> No but 'deluded moron' def is.


No stop... That is really the funniest statement I have ever heard here! Nearly fell off the balcony looking at the abandoned tram job site...


----------



## Face81

Everyone here seems to forget that Dubai is not alone in experiencing sharp price falls from the peak. 

All of you 'savvy' investors plunged in head long and bought property like there was no tomorrow. There was no track record for price appreciation, quality, finishing, delivery etc, yet all of you leapt off a cliff to get your hands on a piece of the Dubai pie and now that your investment has lost its value, all you do is moan and bash Dubai and make outlandish (and childish) statements all the time. I did not hear any of you complaining when prices rocketed 80% between 2007 and 2009?

Grow up. Investments are risky, whether it's Dubai, or Timbuktu. That's the way the cookie crumbles. And as all of you are aware, if you don't like it, feel free to grace the luxurious terminals at DXB and find your way out. The non stop bickering and slagging off is border line sad. I feel sorry for all of you. You eat, sleep and drink hatred for Dubai, yet you are firmly parked there in the desert enjoying the comforts it has given you. 

To remind everyone, the whole world is experiencing the most difficult financial period ever known. You're lucky to still have jobs and you're even luckier that the UAE continues to do its best to push forward with its development, including the completion of stalled projects, which dot beaches and city centres the world over. Dubai is not alone in this situation. 

There is nothing wrong with dreaming big and having great ambitions. That's what makes Dubai different. Had it never grown to what it is today, most of you would have never even come. I mean most of you probably never even knew of Dubai 10 years ago. 

Happy bashing to you all. I'm done with this thread.


----------



## Richard Head

Face81 said:


> Everyone here seems to forget that Dubai is not alone in experiencing sharp price falls from the peak.
> 
> All of you 'savvy' investors plunged in head long and bought property like there was no tomorrow. There was no track record for price appreciation, quality, finishing, delivery etc, yet all of you leapt off a cliff to get your hands on a piece of the Dubai pie and now that your investment has lost its value, all you do is moan and bash Dubai and make outlandish (and childish) statements all the time. I did not hear any of you complaining when prices rocketed 80% between 2007?
> 
> Grow up. Investments are risky, whether it's Dubai, or Timbuktu. That's the way the cookie crumbles. And as all of you are aware, if you don't like it, feel free to grace the luxurious terminals at DXB and find your way out. The non stop bickering and slagging off is border line sad. I feel sorry for all of you. You eat, sleep and drink hatred for Dubai, yet you are firmly parked there in the desert enjoying the comforts it has given you.
> 
> To remind everyone, the whole world is experiencing the most difficult financial period ever known. You're lucky to still have jobs and you're even luckier that the UAE continues to do its best to push forward with its development, including the completion of stalled projects, which dot beaches and city centres the world over. Dubai is not alone in this situation.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with dreaming big and having great ambitions. That's what makes Dubai different. Had it never grown to what it is today, most of you would have never even come. I mean most of you probably never even knew of Dubai 10 years ago.
> 
> Happy bashing to you all. I'm done with this thread.


This. :cheers: From the perspective of a 13-year expat, this guy just nailed it :cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

Don't take it to heart Face. Some investor's are just a little restless with much needed changes to make the real estate scenario better, that's all.

I'm sure no body hates Dubai, they're just frustrated with the slow actions of the system that are very much needed.


----------



## Green Hornet

Face81 said:


> Everyone here seems to forget that Dubai is not alone in experiencing sharp price falls from the peak.
> 
> All of you 'savvy' investors plunged in head long and bought property like there was no tomorrow. There was no track record for price appreciation, quality, finishing, delivery etc, yet all of you leapt off a cliff to get your hands on a piece of the Dubai pie and now that your investment has lost its value, all you do is moan and bash Dubai and make outlandish (and childish) statements all the time. I did not hear any of you complaining when prices rocketed 80% between 2007 and 2009?
> 
> Grow up. Investments are risky, whether it's Dubai, or Timbuktu. That's the way the cookie crumbles. And as all of you are aware, if you don't like it, feel free to grace the luxurious terminals at DXB and find your way out. The non stop bickering and slagging off is border line sad. I feel sorry for all of you. You eat, sleep and drink hatred for Dubai, yet you are firmly parked there in the desert enjoying the comforts it has given you.
> 
> To remind everyone, the whole world is experiencing the most difficult financial period ever known. You're lucky to still have jobs and you're even luckier that the UAE continues to do its best to push forward with its development, including the completion of stalled projects, which dot beaches and city centres the world over. Dubai is not alone in this situation.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with dreaming big and having great ambitions. That's what makes Dubai different. Had it never grown to what it is today, most of you would have never even come. I mean most of you probably never even knew of Dubai 10 years ago.
> 
> Happy bashing to you all. I'm done with this thread.


 
I don't think there are many countries that have experienced a drop of 60% in prices or who allow their country/city whatever to be overwhelmed by so many crooks posing as property developers and stand by and let the conning take place.
For a goverment to invite people to invest and then stand by and let them be conned when the've even done some of the conning themselves invites some of the harsh comments you read on here.
Dreaming big becomes a problem when its obvious you don't know what you're doing hence an almost bankrupt goverment.

I like Dubai and some of the developments like PJ still amaze me.I also love the go for it attitude with projects that would never have got past the red tape in the UK but maybe Dubai was dreaming a little too much.I'd still like to see some of the on hold projects get built like the Trump Hotel on the Palm,Dubailand,and the 1200m tower(but no more huge malls please)

Personally I count myself lucky as I have completed properties built by competent developers.Its those who have nothing to show for the thousands the've invested that I feel sorry for.

Of course the worldwide slump is prob the main reason for the slump in prices and yes no-one put a gun to our heads and told us to buy.
It would be stupid to blame the goverment for evrything thats happened.
But when you see a goverment that sits back and does nothing and then
comes out with these ridiculous comments its bound to invite criticism.

Sorry to see you're done with this thread as you obviously see more promise in Dubai then alot of us so maybe reading your positive threads would have lifted some spirits.

Personally no I didnt know of Dubai 10 years ago and I'm not sure why would I have.


----------



## smussuw

^^ not many countries experienced 400% jump in prices either


----------



## MarkWass

Face81 said:


> Everyone here seems to forget that Dubai is not alone in experiencing sharp price falls from the peak.
> 
> All of you 'savvy' investors plunged in head long and bought property like there was no tomorrow. There was no track record for price appreciation, quality, finishing, delivery etc, yet all of you leapt off a cliff to get your hands on a piece of the Dubai pie and now that your investment has lost its value, all you do is moan and bash Dubai and make outlandish (and childish) statements all the time. I did not hear any of you complaining when prices rocketed 80% between 2007 and 2009?
> 
> Grow up. Investments are risky, whether it's Dubai, or Timbuktu. That's the way the cookie crumbles. And as all of you are aware, if you don't like it, feel free to grace the luxurious terminals at DXB and find your way out. The non stop bickering and slagging off is border line sad. I feel sorry for all of you. You eat, sleep and drink hatred for Dubai, yet you are firmly parked there in the desert enjoying the comforts it has given you.
> 
> To remind everyone, the whole world is experiencing the most difficult financial period ever known. You're lucky to still have jobs and you're even luckier that the UAE continues to do its best to push forward with its development, including the completion of stalled projects, which dot beaches and city centres the world over. Dubai is not alone in this situation.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with dreaming big and having great ambitions. That's what makes Dubai different. Had it never grown to what it is today, most of you would have never even come. I mean most of you probably never even knew of Dubai 10 years ago.
> 
> Happy bashing to you all. I'm done with this thread.


Much of your post is accurate. However, I would imagine that the vast majority of people who post on this and similar internet threads do not hate Dubai. In fact quite the opposite.

Personally, I have never bashed Dubai or it's long term potential. My issue is not directly related to economics or property prices, but indirectly, via the lack of regulation / control of developers. Without going into any details, I can only assume that you are fortunate enough to be blissfully unaware of the very crooked behaviour of many developers? Perhaps you should ask trusted and knowledgeable forumers such as Imre or 234Sale what its really like?

Giving exact forecasts or positively controlling many aspects and dynamics of any market in any location, real estate or otherwise is often virtually impossible. However one aspect, which would have positive effect, control and regulation of developers is more easily possible.

Anyway, as a general point, internet forums are generally an very positive concept. By 'positive', I mean: sure posters won't always necessarily always agree with each other, but that's surely the whole point of them? Through discussion and exchange of different views and ideas, surely we can all learn something? So I, and am sure all others, would welcome you back with open arms to hear your view points?


----------



## Green Hornet

smussuw said:


> ^^ not many countries experienced 400% jump in prices either


So a minority of buyers have done well even though prices have fallen so that excuses the fact the majority have lost money and been conned.
Sweet.


----------



## Green Hornet

Moving on and putting to one side the fact many investors have lost money in Dubai and been ripped off,the question is where do tommorows buyers come from?
Ok those who say Sheik Mo owes those who have lost out nothing and he isnt liable to do anything for them well for tommorows investors he damn well is.
Is he going to protect them,to bring in more regulations,to make sure when he does bring in new rules the muppets at RERA enforce these and deter the criminals from coming back.
Off-plan is dead and completed units won't shoot up in price like off-plan did so wheres the attraction for tommorows buyers.
I don't see Dubai being more of an attractive option to foreign investors than what they can get in their own countries or other emerging places.
Any project that relies on a huge amount of off-plan sales like Arabian Canal will never make it.


----------



## MarkWass

By the way Face81, a tip / question for you:

All those thousands of media articles you have so kindly copied and pasted for us. Have you ever read any of the reader's comments sections after all those articles, the ones that relate to *regulation* anyway? Because the *reality* is that more truthful facts are usually found in the reader's comments sections than the actual articles the journalists *mindlessly* churn out..


----------



## agod

USA over 60% and plentry of Crooks to go around to.

a.


----------



## MarkWass

Yes Al, having worked in the property sector for my entire career (20 years) am very well aware that there are many crooked developers everywhere. But in most places, given legal constraints, their behaviour is.. restrained..


----------



## MarkWass

Ps Al, glad you had a good night entertaining Sebastian. I'm a very big fan of his work...


----------



## agod

Aaah Mark your just a Baby,  I developed my 3 Story Victorian house into 4 Flats back in 1981, those days their was no Buy to Let Mortgages, just a Commercial Mortgage at 2% above base, I took the Bank Manager out for Lunch, and we drove past the house afterwards and he agreed to lend me £100,000 to convert it, didnt even look inside, luckily he was on the Square so that was alright then, I sold the three off and kept the bottom one, I also bought them back over the years as and when the time was right, and still own two, as it went up in value I released equity to fund my other Properties, those houses have grown from £24000, in 81, to 1.2 million today, more luck than judgement, as the Location became Gentrified.

Back to the point, I think about 50% of my off plan Investments have been crooks, in the US, KB Homes was Good, Ginn was bad, (just google Bobby Ginn and see the Lawsuits) Dubai 2 out of three, and uk 2 out of 2.

Amazing Photo Sebastion took, and such a nce guy.

Al.


----------



## MarkWass

Baby? I'm a year older than 234, LOL..


----------



## sidxb

Face81 said:


> Everyone here seems to forget that Dubai is not alone in experiencing sharp price falls from the peak.
> 
> All of you 'savvy' investors plunged in head long and bought property like there was no tomorrow. There was no track record for price appreciation, quality, finishing, delivery etc, yet all of you leapt off a cliff to get your hands on a piece of the Dubai pie and now that your investment has lost its value, all you do is moan and bash Dubai and make outlandish (and childish) statements all the time. I did not hear any of you complaining when prices rocketed 80% between 2007 and 2009?
> 
> Grow up. Investments are risky, whether it's Dubai, or Timbuktu. That's the way the cookie crumbles. And as all of you are aware, if you don't like it, feel free to grace the luxurious terminals at DXB and find your way out. The non stop bickering and slagging off is border line sad. I feel sorry for all of you. You eat, sleep and drink hatred for Dubai, yet you are firmly parked there in the desert enjoying the comforts it has given you.
> 
> To remind everyone, the whole world is experiencing the most difficult financial period ever known. You're lucky to still have jobs and you're even luckier that the UAE continues to do its best to push forward with its development, including the completion of stalled projects, which dot beaches and city centres the world over. Dubai is not alone in this situation.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with dreaming big and having great ambitions. That's what makes Dubai different. Had it never grown to what it is today, most of you would have never even come. I mean most of you probably never even knew of Dubai 10 years ago.
> 
> Happy bashing to you all. I'm done with this thread.


I agree to what you say but I do not agree to accepting what is said on forum so emotionally. Just as you meet people who have various views and personalities , so are forumers. There are people with pessimist approach to life, whether relationships or job or even Dubai. Just few posts ago someone mentioned falling off the balcony looking at 'abandoned' tram. I have a friend in marina with different perspective who is always boasting to visitors looking from his balcony how he saw metro build up in front of him and than telling them how the tram will change everything within Marina within few years. Its same project but different view whether you want to see glass half full or half empty. I am sure even if tram is built, a pessmist mind would start moaning about something else and would anyways fall off balcony one day out of frustration in life :lol:

Its just peoples attitude, as another example is of analyst Saud Masud whom I have met few times ( if you google , you may find him in few articles ). This guy makes sure to pop up in some news every few weeks however his underlying analysis has been pessimist since 2007. In latest analysis he 'dreamed' that by 2020 Dubai prices will be on 2008 level. If you meet him , he is always quick to mention everything 'wrong' about Dubai and how he predicted real estate crash before it happened. However he never mentions the part that he was predicting downfall since early 2007 , when markets infact climbed by around 40-60 % till mid 2008. The guy has already switched job 3 times and will continue to make reports based on his negative outlook irrespective the market goes up or down. I only read his reports , keeping in mind that he is an eternal pessimist regarding growth of Dubai and the underlying bias of reports, however his reports atleast gives a different perspective :cheers:


----------



## mowy2611

Guys this is becoming pathetic, it looks like we won't see this building up in years if ever.

We need to submit a joint complaint to RERA. Has anyone tried discussing this issue with a lawyer? Maybe we can put in a joint case and divide the costs among us.

These guys are defaulting on the contract day in day out and we're sitting here with our money locked in their banking accounts.

Ahmed N did you meat with Shaarawy?

People complaining about noise is bullshit, I used to live in a building where throughout the year and around the clock construction was going 10 meters from my building and we couldn't complain or say anything.

We need to find a solution and agree on a way forward cos we can't continue to sit here and watch

Let me know your thoughts


----------



## abf

If investors can find any consolation Wind has an update :

http://www.windtowers.net/Development_Timelien_111017.htm


----------



## Green Hornet

sidxb said:


> is always quick to mention everything 'wrong' about Dubai and how he predicted real estate crash before it happened. However he never mentions the part that he was predicting downfall since early 2007 , when markets infact climbed by around 40-60 % till mid 2008.


Just proves alot of reports and the opinions of certain so called 'experts'need to be ignored.
Good post.


----------



## MarkWass

@RichardHead

It seems that you, and a few other 'rampers' on SSC, appear to be completely unaware of how many players in the real estate market are simply ignoring the laws.

New laws are not necessarily needed. They simply need to create an regulatory body to assist in enforcing the existing ones.

Clearly no investor or owner occupier in Dubai can blame anyone for the current or future value of their purchases. Caveat Emptor.

But what they could hope for is the implementation of basic consumer protection?

The true road to recovery, to allow Dubai to reach its full potential, will not start until the day that the existing laws are enforced.


----------



## lafinc2

Face81 said:


> They will probably target completed developments, with guaranteed revenue schemes, so perhaps lots of non freehold commercial stuff and maybe some select resi developments.


I read the news... But were will this money be spent? That's what matters...... Was referring to the 1bn fund


----------



## agod

MarkWass said:


> @RichardHead
> 
> But what they could hope for is the implementation of basic consumer protection?
> 
> The true road to recovery, to allow Dubai to reach its full potential, will not start until the day that the existing laws are enforced.



Dear Mark.

Whilst Shopping at the Festival City the other day, there was a small kiosk setup by DED, yes DED, Department of Economic development, whose Mission Statements reads.

To create an environment for sustainable economic development and enchance the economic welfare and prosperity of Dubai and the UAE.

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,

Developing and enchancing policy and regulations.

Providing efficient services to local international investors and businesses.

Identifying and supporting growth of key sectors.

I asked him does this apply to the Real Estate Industry, surely it must, as i and many others had plenty of problems DED could sort out. No his Mission was to advise us of the "Schnied" Pears Soap that was being sold in the Mall by a little Asian chap, he even a had a sample, so beware, what you bu.

But if you signed this form, you got a little goody bag that included a DED mug, and very nice it is too.

I promised I would spread the word, just in case,they turned their attention to us poor investors in Real Estate, and dumped RERA.

for all those that have nothing else to do www.consumerrights.ae 

Al


----------



## MarkWass

agod; said:


> dumped RERA.


Interesting point Al. I suspect if the govt want to offer security and encourage or at least 'allow' future growth, you may have hit the nail on the head there...


----------



## Imre

*Only way up for UAE property market now*

*IIF says market appears to have bottomed out; However, Rasmala, Arqaam expect further fall*

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Sunday, October 30, 2011 

The real estate market in the UAE appears to have bottomed out, according to the Institute of International Finance (IIF).

“The real estate market in the UAE appears to have bottomed out, and significant progress has been made in corporate restructuring and in governance. The main catalyst of the projected solid growth next year is the expected turnaround in the real estate market,” the Washington-based institute said.

Real estate residential prices in Dubai and Abu Dhabi have dropped by about 60 per cent and 50 per cent, respectively, since their peak in 2008, IIF believes that data for the first three quarters of 2011 suggests that the market may have reached its bottom.

Contrary to this is the analysis of investment banks and global property consultancies.

Rasmala Investments’ senior real estate analyst Saud Masud had told 'Emirates24|7' on September 27 that prices will continue to trend down as per their long standing view.

“We expect another 20-30 per cent decline in next two years as supply will likely erode market values. We don't expect very robust asset price inflation in any one market in the foreseeable future," he said.

He told Bloomberg recently that prices won’t show any “meaningful recovery” in the next five years.

Earlier this week, Arqaam Capital said that the UAE’s beleaguered property sector hasn’t bottomed out yet and property prices and rents may drop a further 20 per cent this year and next because of excess supply.

“We think there is a further leg down to the UAE property market before residential prices and rents recover,” the investment bank said.

Although Jones Lang LaSalle, a global real estate consultancy, has refrained from giving any percentage decline, it does believe that the chance of any recovery next year will be dependent upon the rate of economic growth and end user demand for Dubai residential property.

Dubai is expected to see completion of 5,000 units by end-2011, bringing the total residential stock to 331,000 units while an estimated 27,000 units completion next year, it said.

http://www.emirates247.com/property/only-way-up-for-uae-property-market-now-2011-10-30-1.425857


----------



## Ahmed N

Imre said:


> This one seems ON HOLD again.


I have sent an e-mail to Mr Hassan, at RCC. If others can send him an e-mail and he should respond. I have asked him why things are on hold again. 

When I met him last time - he advised me that they delay was due to them waiting for the steel to construct the next floor.

Mr Hassan Sherif......
[email protected]
[email protected]

The second e-mail address - he has not put the ending, not sure of its .com or .ae????


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> *Only way up for UAE property market now*
> 
> *IIF says market appears to have bottomed out; However, Rasmala, Arqaam expect further fall*
> 
> By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Sunday, October 30, 2011
> 
> The real estate market in the UAE appears to have bottomed out, according to the Institute of International Finance (IIF).
> 
> “The real estate market in the UAE appears to have bottomed out, and significant progress has been made in corporate restructuring and in governance. The main catalyst of the projected solid growth next year is the expected turnaround in the real estate market,” the Washington-based institute said.
> 
> Real estate residential prices in Dubai and Abu Dhabi have dropped by about 60 per cent and 50 per cent, respectively, since their peak in 2008, IIF believes that data for the first three quarters of 2011 suggests that the market may have reached its bottom.
> 
> Contrary to this is the analysis of investment banks and global property consultancies.
> 
> Rasmala Investments’ senior real estate analyst Saud Masud had told 'Emirates24|7' on September 27 that prices will continue to trend down as per their long standing view.
> 
> “We expect another 20-30 per cent decline in next two years as supply will likely erode market values. We don't expect very robust asset price inflation in any one market in the foreseeable future," he said.
> 
> *He told Bloomberg recently that prices won’t show any “meaningful recovery” in the next five years.*
> Earlier this week, Arqaam Capital said that the UAE’s beleaguered property sector hasn’t bottomed out yet and property prices and rents may drop a further 20 per cent this year and next because of excess supply.
> 
> “We think there is a further leg down to the UAE property market before residential prices and rents recover,” the investment bank said.
> 
> Although Jones Lang LaSalle, a global real estate consultancy, has refrained from giving any percentage decline, it does believe that the chance of any recovery next year will be dependent upon the rate of economic growth and end user demand for Dubai residential property.
> 
> Dubai is expected to see completion of 5,000 units by end-2011, bringing the total residential stock to 331,000 units while an estimated 27,000 units completion next year, it said.
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/property/only-way-up-for-uae-property-market-now-2011-10-30-1.425857


I keep reading these statements and to me it shows that the analysts are failing to recognise that the market is infact still maturing and morphing. Areas in demand are stable and increasing, while less desirable properties in less desireable areas are in decline. Yes, the net effect is no change. Drill into the true picture and the effect is something totally different.

To be honest I am fed up reading the same old, same old. Where they still think all properties are in the same basket of rentable returns and values. Load of crap!!!


----------



## Green Hornet

Surely the population growth has alot to do with how prices will go.
Oversupply means suppressed prices but when there are enough people to occupy all the units then things should improve.
So does anyone know how many people live in Dubai against how many units there are against by how much is the population increasing.
Surely with so much commercial permises going for such cheap prices plus freezone areas Dubai must be an attractive place to open a business?
Then there is the fact as an employee you know those your employees have a much better chance to be able to afford to rent somewhere to live.
Or is the population growth made up from more low paid unskilled workers than the opposite?
Are people still moving from Sharjah to Dubai because of cheaper units?are they moving from AD also.Who actually has accurate figures cos we know you cannot rely on goverment figures.


----------



## Richard Head

Green Hornet said:


> Surely the population growth has alot to do with how prices will go.
> Oversupply means suppressed prices but when there are enough people to occupy all the units then things should improve.
> So does anyone know how many people live in Dubai against how many units there are against by how much is the population increasing.
> Surely with so much commercial permises going for such cheap prices plus freezone areas Dubai must be an attractive place to open a business?
> Then there is the fact as an employee you know those your employees have a much better chance to be able to afford to rent somewhere to live.
> Or is the population growth made up from more low paid unskilled workers than the opposite?
> Are people still moving from Sharjah to Dubai because of cheaper units?are they moving from AD also.Who actually has accurate figures cos we know you cannot rely on goverment figures.


Yes.
I imagine so.
Not really.
Hopefully.
What?
Probably.
Nobody.

Hope that clears everything up for you. You're very welcome.


----------



## Green Hornet

Richard Head said:


> Yes.
> I imagine so.
> Not really.
> Hopefully.
> What?
> Probably.
> Nobody.
> 
> Hope that clears everything up for you. You're very welcome.


I know you probably don't mean to come across as an idiot but...


----------



## I Know

*UAE seen silent on extended property visas*










The UAE’s move to grant three-year residency visas to owners of property worth more than AED1m may have been pushed to the back burner amid doubts it will succeed in spurring fresh activity in Dubai’s housing market. 

The UAE government said in June it would replace visas that require renewal every six months for some homeowners, but the decision appears to have made little progress in the months since. 

“We hope it will be soon,” a source at the Dubai Land Department told Arabian Business. 

“We don’t know when because it isn’t coming from us. [All we know is that] there is a lot of interest and demand for properties between AED1-2m.

Mohammed Al Hammadi, assistant director-general for visas and residency at Dubai’s Department of Naturalisation and Residency, said there had been no updates on the status of the extended visas. 

“We have no idea [when the rules will start],” he told Arabian Business. “I expect they will have some meetings [and then tell us].”

Rents and prices in Dubai, the Gulf’s worst-performing market in the last three years, have been in freefall since the collapse of the emirate’s real estate bubble in late 2008.

A poll of property analysts last week showed respondents believed prices could fall a further 10 to 30 percent as developers add to excess supply in Dubai and Abu Dhabi while buyers dwindle.

Home purchases in the UAE dropped by 44 percent to 1,459 in the third quarter from a year earlier, CBRE Group said this month. That’s down from 4,059 transactions in the third quarter of 2008, just before the crash.

Dubai has unveiled a slate of government-backed financing schemes aimed at spurring sales in its property market. The emirate’s Land Department last month signed a deal to identify suspended or offplan residential developments and offer them for sale or long-term lease. 

In May, the agency unveiled a scheme to offer low-interest bank loans to developers with partially-constructed projects.

Government-controlled Investment Corporation of Dubai last week said it would start a $1bn fund to buy up assets in the city’s beleaguered real estate market, in partnership with Canada’s Brookfield Asset Management. 

It was hoped the decision to extend property visas for some homeowners would help to spur fresh activity in Dubai by attracting foreign buyers fleeing the Arab Spring unrest.

The emirate has been seen as a safe haven during turmoil that has gripped the Arab world and toppled leaders in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya.

But others believe the regulation will do little to aid sales in the face of rising property supply.

“At this point we haven't seen any evidence that the government is looking to [encourage the private sector to buy] with any urgency,” Liz Martins, senior economist, HSBC Middle East, said in an emailed response to questions.

“We think that there is some tentative demand returning to the Dubai property market, but this will be counteracted by ongoing supply increases. So we wonder how effective any plans to stimulate demand will be in the face of this rising supply.”

“Since the announcement, further details have been hard to come by,” said Catherine Gill, a lawyer with Clyde & Co, Dubai. “The issue seems to have been placed on hold. It is not yet known to us when, or if, the initiative is likely to come into effect and, if it does, whether an investment threshold of AED1m would still apply.”

Matthew Green, head of research at CBRE Group, said any impact from extended property visas would be dependent on the structure of the new ruling. 

“There are a few points they still need to clarify, such as family - who is included on the visa, renewal schedules and fees. They may also be considering whether it’s now more relevant to have a lower [base] value… now prices have come down.”

Ratings agency Moody’s said last week that Dubai’s property market was unlikely to see a price recovery until 2016 as oversupply pinched real estate rates.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/uae-seen-silent-on-extended-property-visas-427744.html


----------



## Green Hornet

I Know said:


> The UAE’s move to grant three-year residency visas to owners of property worth more than AED1m may have been pushed to the back burner amid doubts it will succeed in spurring fresh activity in Dubai’s housing market.


And to those many thousands of owners whos property is worth below 1m,f....off cos we da goverment don't give a s....


----------



## Green Hornet

I Know said:


> “At this point we haven't seen any evidence that the government is looking to [encourage the private sector to buy] with any urgencyhttp://


Errrr,haven't seen any and won't be seeing any.
Hope this idiot hasn't just noticed.


----------



## Philippa C

I agree with the comments about the two tier market which most analyses don't remark upon. 

So many analysts got in wrong in not predicting the magnitude or timing of the property crash here that they are now erring on the side of caution and not predicting a recovery!


----------



## Ahmed N

Hi

I have received some further information regarding the project.

ACI - has replied to my e-mail. They have recently experienced some issues and with the help of RERA all has been resolved and sorted. The construction will re-commence after Eid.......so another week of no activity.

I have just this minute come off the phone with Mr Akheel (managing director) of RCC. You can call him on +971 4 3432010. He also said there were some issues that needed to be sorted out and he said "truthfully things will start again after Eid, and you will see
very quick progress". 

I asked him for a schedule on the construction - when what etc - he said they have this and will work towards achiving it - but would not share it with me!!!

It maybe a good idea for others to call him and maybe go and see him (if you live in Dubai). we all need to pull togther and put notes on the forum of any updates, meetings with ACI, RCC and RERA and any telephone conversations. We are giving these people and easy ride, they are thinking we are not bothered!!!

I don't think that taking legal action is a way forward - as the courts will see that the project is under construction, and RERA also involved with the development. 

The other number i have is for the Engineer Mr Hassan Sherif +971 50 7658205. He actually has not replied to me e-mail (yet).

Any other news please share with us all.


----------



## Green Hornet

*Dubai masterplan on land allocation approved*

No residential high-rises on land allocated for other use: Municipality DG
By Parag Deulgaonkar 

Published Sunday, October 02, 2011 
A 2020 masterplan for the city of Dubai has been approved by the Executive Council, which will clearly demarcate usage of land in the emirate, a senior government official has revealed.

“It is a masterplan for the city of Dubai. We have to know what we are going to do and what is our requirement for these lands and how we need to develop it,” Director-General of Dubai Municipality Hussain Nasser Lootah told Emirates24|7.

“This masterplan has taken all the aspects - residential, industrial, commercial, schools, hospital and even infrastructure - into consideration. We have taken it to the Executive Council and they approved it. We are leading the project and are cooperation and coordinating with government organisations and private developers.”

The new masterplan will define the land usage, which means that no one can build residential hi-rises on land that has been allocated for some other use.

“You can’t come to an area and say I want to make a high-rise building since the land use has been identified.”

Lootah stressed that Dubai was not just a real estate city and it was not right for people to concentrate only on real estate.

“Real estate is part of the city. We are developing, Dewa is developing big projects, RTA has completed the Metro and so many roads. We too have completed a huge sewage plant. We are building new public gardens and launching so many other projects. So it is not just real estate,” he added.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...-land-allocation-approved-2011-10-02-1.421362


----------



## bister

Dear All

I can only express my admiration and support. The only way to ensure a good outcome is to apply relentless pressure on ACI and RERA all the way. Make noise but also remain professional!

I am fighting ACI in Court, they have been served execution notice after having won in two instances with Court of Cassation being the last hurdle.


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

And more on the 3 year UAE Residence visa as reported by WAM in June :

The UAE federal government on Tuesday approved the extension of visa for real estate investors from six months to three years.

According to a report on newswire WAM, the decision was taken during a cabinet meeting chaired by vice president and prime minister of the UAE and ruler of Dubai HH Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum.

“The government took a raft of measures as part of its efforts to underpin economic growth within its strategic plan 2011-2013, including extension of visa for real estate investors to three years instead of six months,” WAM said.

Presently, foreign owners of property worth more than AED1m are eligible to get a six-month visa, which needs to be reviewed every six months.

In the same meeting, the Federal Cabinet also raised the capital of Emirates General Petroleum Corporation (Emarat) to AED9bn ($2.45bn) from AED6bn and endorsed budget of the Sheikh Zayed Housing programme for 2011 at AED1.3bn.

The meeting, which took place at the Presidential Palace also gave its nod for the Optional Retirement Programme for Emirati employees at government entities who have completed 30 or more years of service as per the federal pension and social security law, WAM added



http://www.arabianbusiness.com/uae-approves-3-year-visa-for-property-investors--407537.html

This wishy washy approach to legislation surely cant be good for business, now you see it, now you dont ! While an opiniated expat like myself readily can be ignord, one has to appreciate that there is a substantial amount of UAE citizens also riding the local property market, holding larger and smaller shares, citizens whom also has a stake in UAE's general well being entering this century. Rumblings by the water cooler down the hall....


----------



## Ahmed N

bister said:


> Dear All
> 
> I can only express my admiration and support. The only way to ensure a good outcome is to apply relentless pressure on ACI and RERA all the way. Make noise but also remain professional!
> 
> I am fighting ACI in Court, they have been served execution notice after having won in two instances with Court of Cassation being the last hurdle.


Thanks for your post. When you say in your last paragraph "having won in two instances" have you won or ACI?

Are you fighting to have your money back? is this on Dubai Star?

Please can you give us some more information.

Thanks


----------



## bister

Yes won both instances to get money back, not on this project. My project never broke ground.


----------



## W40arx

So In your opinion Bister, is it worth pursuing ACI via the courts for compensation/refund for the Dubai Star project... It is more than halfway through the project!


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> Chill!


I'm always very chilled.

Just find it interesting to see all the VI's at play on this and other forums.

Btw when I said 'you decide', I didn't mean 'YOU' personally TB, I meant everyone else... :lol:


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> I'm always very chilled.
> 
> Just find it interesting to see all the VI's at play on this and other forums.
> 
> Btw when I said 'you decide', I didn't mean 'YOU' personally TB, I meant everyone else... :lol:


I did get that point very clearly demonstrated by my instruction to you to chill! You seem to be the one reading far too much into my posts. I did not like your comment which seemed to be twisting my post and trying to infer that I thought all the people who have lost money in Dubai are idiots. 



MarkWass said:


> By :smug:, I mean (and assume his earlier comment meant).... *Most of the thousands of investors and owner occ buyers apart from TB and his pals, naturally, are obviously "idiots"...*
> 
> Or am I reading too much into his remark? You decide...



I do find your personal jibes and bating of me a bit tiresome now. You seem to have some sort of fixation for me personally and if that is how you want to go then fine. 

If this is the price of success, so be it! :smug:


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> If this is the price of success, so be it! :smug:


Look, I am not trying to annoy you. But I do think many of your posts and 'investment advice' are rather :smug:, having had the benefit of hindsight.
But rather than bicker, which has no place on this forum (although constructive argument surely does?), perhaps this can be settled if you answer my two simple questions asked in post 27380?


MarkWass said:


> TB, ok perhaps you're not keen to respond. I'll make it easier for you, as only two simple *YES / NO* answers required:
> *Q1.* You have gone on at great lengths about the importance of due diligence for investors to carry out when selecting a project or developer to invest with. But do you *now* accept that regardless of any due diligence undertaken, it's meaningless, as ALL developers, even the best, with proven track records, *now* exploit the fact that there is effectively NO regulation? *YES/NO answer*
> *Q2.* Do you now accept that this lack of regulation and the fact that *all *developers exploit that, is likely to have a negative medium long term effect on the entire Dubai property market (including the already built market), regardless of what the economic climate is, in say 5 to 10 years time? *YES/ NO answer*


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> Look, I am not trying to annoy you. But *I do think many of your posts and 'investment advice' are rather :smug:, having had the benefit of hindsight*.
> But rather than bicker, which has no place on this forum (although constructive argument surely does?), perhaps this can be settled if you answer my two simple questions asked in post 27380?


You should perhaps look back at my investment advice from 2006 onwards. Not far off the mark, no pun intended. Mr Morrismarina was contradicting mostly everything I was saying including my experienced eye on likely completion dates. I was branded a Select hater, and Cayan lover just for pointing out the obvious and trying to warn everyone about Selects promises. I think everyone now knows which developer delivered the better value and returns for their investors. That developer was the same one that refrained from monthly press releases about how their portfolio was the largest and most luxurious in the marina, *despite the fact they hadn't even built a thing!* Glaringly obvious liars!


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> TB, ok perhaps you're not keen to respond. I'll make it easier for you, as only two simple *YES / NO* answers required:
> 
> *Q1.* You have gone on at great lengths about the importance of due diligence for investors to carry out when selecting a project or developer to invest with. But do you *now* accept that regardless of any due diligence undertaken, it's meaningless, as ALL developers, even the best, with proven track records, *now* exploit the fact that there is effectively NO regulation? *YES/NO answer*
> 
> You can't answer that question with a Yes or No! Anyone who got off the plane and went down to a kiosk at Emirates Mall and signed a purchase agreement based on a glossy brochure, without a site visit to see if any roads or infrastructure even existed or to know where Sports City or Business bay even was, was asking for trouble. This will anger a lot of people, but it angers me when I read about them bleating about the lack of regulation and control. Dubai sold itself on the lack of red tape, everyone knew the score!!! Caveat Emptor!
> 
> *Q2.* Do you now accept that this lack of regulation and the fact that *all *developers exploit that, is likely to have a negative medium long term effect on the entire Dubai property market (including the already built market), regardless of what the economic climate is, in say 5 to 10 years time? *YES/ NO answer*
> 
> Again, same answer as above. Everyone knew there was no regulation. If property prices were still growing at 30% year on year then mostly everything would still be getting built and no one would be complaining about the lack of quality or late delivery. The market colapsed and the buyers stopped making payments, developers shut up shop and went into survival mode or worse, absconded. Was this due to a lack of regulation of the buyers or the sellers?


Dubai was an unregulated real estate market, *everyone knew that*. No one cared until it all went pear shaped. So we have to conclude the market was driven by greed, especially with the amount of flippers and multi property purchasers that it attracted. 

We can't keep blaming Dubai for the monster we, the investors, created. 

To a certain extent, I feel that the new regulation framework and governing bodies (RERA etc) give people false sense of security. Until they can show they have teeth there will be little new investment or competative mortgage deals.


----------



## MarkWass

You seem to focus on Cayan vs Select. What about all the many, many others? Some have track records of previous development, no possible excuse to blame lack of infrastructure, no rational or plausible reason to blame 'force majeure' for their unprofessional behaviour, funds etc..

I can't fathom out why you seem to believe that it is unreasonable for anyone to expect players in the sector to be regulated, and should be allowed to simply choose to ignore Dubai's laws, unchecked.

But then just when I thought, oh dear, TB has really lost it (or rather is probably unaware of the depth of this 'problem'), at the last minute you suddenly come out with:



True Blue said:


> To a certain extent, I feel that the new regulation framework and governing bodies (RERA etc) give people false sense of security. Until they can show they have teeth there will be little new investment or competative mortgage deals.


:applause:Maybe you've not gone completely bonkers:nuts:, after all! :lol:


----------



## Philippa C

True Blue said:


> I do find your personal jibes and bating of me a bit tiresome now. You seem to have some sort of fixation for me personally and if that is how you want to go then fine.
> 
> If this is the price of success, so be it! :smug:



TB, I too think you've been singled out with many of your remarks taken out of context. I particularly like reading your and Agod's posts as they are always reasonable and full of experience.

Mark, we invested heavily in Dubai much to our regret but we've taken the outlook that we have to live with it. At the time no-one put a gun to our heads and made us buy anything, it was our decision. We were genuine investors trying to build up a portfolio of properties, something we've done with success abroad. It has not worked out for us in Dubai as the market was too different from what we are used to.


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> You seem to focus on Cayan vs Select. What about all the many, many others? Some have track records of previous development, no possible excuse to blame lack of infrastructure, no rational or plausible reason to blame 'force majeure' for their unprofessional behaviour, funds etc..
> 
> I can't fathom out why you seem to believe that it is unreasonable for anyone to expect players in the sector to be regulated, and should be allowed to simply choose to ignore Dubai's laws, unchecked.
> 
> But then just when I thought, oh dear, TB has really lost it (or rather is probably unaware of the depth of this 'problem'), at the last minute you suddenly come out with:
> 
> :applause:Maybe you've not gone completely bonkers:nuts:, after all! :lol:


I think your mind is already made up before you even read my posts. You asked for comment and I gave it straight. But at no place in any of my rhetoric, did I mention Cayan vs Select. In fact I used Business Bay and Sports City as 2 examples of master developments, mainly as that is where the problems of Dubai are focused. 

I think you read the words I write but use your own interpretation of them.


----------



## True Blue

Philippa C said:


> TB, I too think you've been singled out with many of your remarks taken out of context. I particularly like reading your and Agod's posts as they are always reasonable and full of experience.
> 
> Mark, we invested heavily in Dubai much to our regret but we've taken the outlook that we have to live with it. At the time no-one put a gun to our heads and made us buy anything, it was our decision. We were genuine investors trying to build up a portfolio of properties, something we've done with success abroad. It has not worked out for us in Dubai as the market was too different from what we are used to.


Thanks, sometimes I ask myself, why do I bother. Then I read posts like yours and some of the many pm's I get and I am reminded why I enjoy sharing my views and opinions


----------



## MarkWass

Philippa

I think perhaps you misunderstood my point. No investor can possibly blame anyone for their investment decisions, or the current status or future prospects of the market place they invested in.

My main point is that without some very basic regulation of players in any market, and some kind of attempt to enforce the laws, which in this case is the real estate laws of Dubai:-

On a micro level, certain property types and specific locations may be an OK or good investment in the short to medium term, potentially benefitting from supply vs demand in certain pockets of the whole market.

And yes, as others have commented, there will always be certain parts of the market that will always outperform others, but on a macro level, generalising on the whole market, as the analysts often do, personally I don't think that confidence and much needed investment from outsiders can return (on a large scale) and the market will be able to reach it's true potential until the day that the market has some kind of basic regulation in place and that existing laws are enforced.

And the positive or negative effects of regulation vs non regulation, will not just affect off plan, but potentially restrict confidence and growth in the whole market… or so I believe anyway.

TB's previous comments in my direction anyway, suggested that he believed that the key to making a shrewd investment decision in off plan was purely down to the choice of and due diligence undertaken re developers.

Although that is logical, it is not all, as experience has shown that many developers, anywhere in the world will exploit any legal loopholes and gaps in regulation. I just think the authorities may be missing a trick that's all by not implementing it several years ago, or at very least NOW. Endless press releases about the future are not required. They don't need to do anything fancy or complicated. *A good start would be appointing a regulatory body to offer transparency and enforce the existing laws.*

I'm tired of bickering TB, let's agree to disagree on the effect of regulation on this market place?


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> In fact I used Business Bay and Sports City as 2 examples of master developments, mainly as that is where the problems of Dubai are focused.


Not the Marina then, with large developers with proven track records then?

Because that's who I'm talking about..


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> Blah Blah Blah...............................
> 
> *I'm tired of bickering TB, let's agree to disagree *




3 minutes later!



MarkWass said:


> Not the Marina then, with large developers with proven track records then?
> 
> Because that's who I'm talking about..


:lol:


----------



## MarkWass

^^ 
The below was not an argument. It was a genuine question. 



MarkWass said:


> Not the Marina then, with large developers with proven track records then?





MarkWass said:


> Because that's who I'm talking about..


----------



## Impy

*Wills*

hi all,

I would appreciate any info on what one does in regards to Wills in UAE.

If and when one takes delivery of an appartment / villa in the UAE ,having paid the full price, and they are residents and citizens of the UK , do they have to engage in arranging a Will under Sharjah Law to protect their property in the event of death etc ?

Many thanks


----------



## iced

MarkWass said:


> Philippa
> 
> I think perhaps you misunderstood my point. No investor can possibly blame anyone for their investment decisions, or the current status or future prospects of the market place they invested in.
> 
> My main point is that without some very basic regulation of players in any market, and some kind of attempt to enforce the laws, which in this case is the real estate laws of Dubai:-
> 
> On a micro level, certain property types and specific locations may be an OK or good investment in the short to medium term, potentially benefitting from supply vs demand in certain pockets of the whole market.
> 
> And yes, as others have commented, there will always be certain parts of the market that will always outperform others, but on a macro level, generalising on the whole market, as the analysts often do, personally I don't think that confidence and much needed investment from outsiders can return (on a large scale) and the market will be able to reach it's true potential until the day that the market has some kind of basic regulation in place and that existing laws are enforced.
> 
> And the positive or negative effects of regulation vs non regulation, will not just affect off plan, but potentially restrict confidence and growth in the whole market… or so I believe anyway.
> 
> TB's previous comments in my direction anyway, suggested that he believed that the key to making a shrewd investment decision in off plan was purely down to the choice of and due diligence undertaken re developers.
> 
> Although that is logical, it is not all, as experience has shown that many developers, anywhere in the world will exploit any legal loopholes and gaps in regulation. I just think the authorities may be missing a trick that's all by not implementing it several years ago, or at very least NOW. Endless press releases about the future are not required. They don't need to do anything fancy or complicated. *A good start would be appointing a regulatory body to offer transparency and enforce the existing laws.*
> 
> I'm tired of bickering TB, let's agree to disagree on the effect of regulation on this market place?


I think that MarkWass point is a really interesting and incredibly valid point. The lack of intial regulation and now the lack of regulatory enforcement by the authorities along with the lack of actual sales and price data demonstates that Dubai is still a frontier market. It really was/is a lottery as to whether your off plan investment would/will be delivered. Some of us have been lucky as opposed to skillful in having our off plan properties actually delivered due to lack of regulatory enforcement. I think that is MarkWass point. 

If the authorities such as RERA do enforce/regulate the real estate market then decision making becomes a skill as opposed to luck. It becomes a proper investment decision making process.

In Dubai there is no great reliable developer since they all act in an opaque manner and do breach terms of SPA and contracts. This includes private and government developers. 

The present time only allows us to realise who is the least problematic developer or development. The regulations are there but the enforcement of it is not. Even going to court is unreliable as there is no precedent so identical cases can result in different verdicts.

Intially investing Dubai is was a gamble and without further data and enforcement of laws it still is. Completed properties in certain areas maybe less of a gamble but given the slow implementation of OA it is still unclear which developments have a bright future.

Some analysts say prices are rising while other say they are falling. That says it all.

So on a macro level it is still a gamble. On a micro level some of us got lucky and will continue to get lucky and happ and others were unlucky and are stiil waiting for the development to be delivered.

I think that the current/since last year buyers maybe able to tell us in a couple of years as to whether skill or chance is the main driver for profitable investment.

Dubai is still a great place to live work and play without any doubt.


----------



## MarkWass

iced said:


> I think that MarkWass point is a really interesting and incredibly valid point. The lack of intial regulation and now the lack of regulatory enforcement by the authorities along with the lack of actual sales and price data demonstates that Dubai is still a frontier market. It really was/is a lottery as to whether your off plan investment would/will be delivered. Some of us have been lucky as opposed to skillful in having our off plan properties actually delivered due to lack of regulatory enforcement. I think that is MarkWass point.
> 
> If the authorities such as RERA do enforce/regulate the real estate market then decision making becomes a skill as opposed to luck. It becomes a proper investment decision making process.
> 
> In Dubai there is no great reliable developer since they all act in an opaque manner and do breach terms of SPA and contracts. This includes private and government developers.
> 
> The present time only allows us to realise who is the least problematic developer or development. The regulations are there but the enforcement of it is not. Even going to court is unreliable as there is no precedent so identical cases can result in different verdicts.
> 
> Intially investing Dubai is was a gamble and without further data and enforcement of laws it still is. Completed properties in certain areas maybe less of a gamble but given the slow implementation of OA it is still unclear which developments have a bright future.
> 
> Some analysts say prices are rising while other say they are falling. That says it all.
> 
> So on a macro level it is still a gamble. On a micro level some of us got lucky and will continue to get lucky and happ and others were unlucky and are stiil waiting for the development to be delivered.
> 
> I think that the current/since last year buyers maybe able to tell us in a couple of years as to whether skill or chance is the main driver for profitable investment.
> 
> Dubai is still a great place to live work and play without any doubt.


iced. I agree with every single line in your post. I had not mentioned previously the luck vs skill thing that you raised, as I did not want to offend. 

Even developers who were *once* honest and reliable, suddenly started to behave very badly (on many fronts) a while back, but before the market took a turn for the worse. Probably because it became more evident that they could get away with it…

iced, you mention opaque. On another note, a while ago I also discovered from a contact at a top legal firm in Dubai that the security and transparency of Escrow is also somewhat _opaque_, not due to RERA, but due to the fact that banks allowed most of to become leveraged…


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> *Even developers who were once honest and reliable, suddenly started to behave very badly (on many fronts) a while back, but before the market took a turn for the worse. Probably because it became more evident that they could get away with it*…


I dissagree. I think the reason the attitudes of the developers changed, was simply due to serious lack of cash flow on the run upto the crash. Construction costs were very high and cash demands for the projects were severe. A saying I used to hear everyday during the construction crash in the UK in 2009, "cash flow is the life blood of any construction project, without it the project will quickly become sick and eventually die". 

Banks were unable to support the developers due to the lack of funds and buyers stopped making their payments due to personal difficulties. In the real world all the developers were bust. As there is no insolvency procedures in Dubai all the developers, that were still building, went into self survival mode. Emaar, Nakheel and Damac ran out of funds and stalled some projects using the money from them to finish others (shouldn't be possible but none operated escrows) raising cash flow to try and pay overheads by introducing high service charges and other hidden charges for their customers. Other private developers had to slow the pace of construction and do asset transfer deals with the contractor and other stakeholders to reach the finish line.

The lack of bankruptcy/insolvency laws probably helped all of the above to keep things ticking over without the threat of creditors shutting them down. However there are many others that have stopped completely and none of the investors know now where they stand.


----------



## MarkWass

^^ Nice rhetoric, but sadly that's all it is. Personally I know several hundred Dubai investors and potential owner occupiers (outside SSC). Not a single one of them has defaulted (yet).

And wider research suggests that the average payment by all investors is over 60% of the (inflated) 2006/7 purchase prices, agreed in signed SPAs for non started projects.

Construction costs (labour & materials) have significantly reduced, due in no small part to the economic crisis.

I, like many others, are well aware that most developers having realised that their previous 'force majeure' type excuses are now wearing incredibly thin, particularly after even Marwan (RERA CEO) publicly ridiculed FM as a nonsense excuse in the case of Dubai. So they are all now using the excuse of 'um everyone's defaulted'. But my experience and other extensive research (which is not hard to do, now we have the internet) is that it's largely fabricated nonsense.*

I was at an investors meeting recently, for one particular development, where there were around 150 investors and potential owner occs attending. We had previously been given the tried and tested lines: firstly various force majeure type shenanigans and then more recently 'most investors have defaulted'.

Reality is, both the above excuses are laughable, as the majority of most of investors in this one had actually met each other. None of them had defaulted, partly because they know that despite other rhetoric of various authorities, everyone realises that defaulting is not an realistic option, under current regulation.

As stated before: Proper Regulation is the only sensible resolution to adopt, for the benefit of future AND existing consumers/owners in the real estate market.


----------



## AppleMac

Impy said:


> hi all,
> 
> I would appreciate any info on what one does in regards to Wills in UAE.
> 
> If and when one takes delivery of an appartment / villa in the UAE ,having paid the full price, and they are residents and citizens of the UK , do they have to engage in arranging a Will under Sharjah Law to protect their property in the event of death etc ?
> 
> Many thanks


Depends on your personal circumstance - if you are a UK citizen and *UK Resident* then although Sharia law will apply in the event of a death, the court will generally accept a UK Will (I have never heard of them not doing so)

It gets a bit more vague if you are a UK citizen but have *UAE Residence* - in that case the court may accept the UK will but it is not guaranteed. 

Either way it will take extra time to go through the process if you do not have a locally registered will.


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> I dissagree. I think the reason the attitudes of the developers changed, was simply due to serious lack of cash flow on the run upto the crash. Construction costs were very high and cash demands for the projects were severe.


Sorry but I dont buy that - all off-plan projects were based on staged payments so the Developers had guaranteed cashflow at each milestone.

This is not like the UK market where the developer takes responsibility for financing the project up until completion and sale.


----------



## Imre

*Business Bay construction saga continues...*

*A master-development of this magnitude will take time, says DPG; Residents tired of never-ending work*

By Majorie van LeijenPublished Thursday, November 03, 2011 

When you get off the Metro at Business Bay, you cannot avoid it: construction work. Before you reach any kind of settlement, you first need to find your way through an area of sand filled with excavators, trucks, unfinished buildings and a lot of red tape to show the pedestrian where he is supposed to walk. 

It has been like this ever since I came to live here, says Rehan Khan, 30, from Pakistan, who has been living in Business Bay for one-and-a-half year. He lives in one of the buildings further up, and needs to pass the construction site every day.



The blueprint looks promising. Masterminded by Dubai Property Groups (DPG), Business Bay is set to become the new business capital of Dubai. It is located between Sheikh Zayed Road and Al-Khail Road and it is offering 80 million square meters of mixed-use space. When everything is ready, it is planned to bare resemblance with Manhattan in New York, containing everything a community needs to be self-sufficient. 

“A master development of this magnitude obviously takes time to reach its full developmental potential,” says a spokesperson of DPG. “But, the Executive Towers have already become a key residential area and the offices in Vision Towers are currently being delivered to DPG’s customers.”

It is not time that bothers residents the most, though. “What I really cannot bear is the view of this construction site every morning again,” says Sama Rad, 29, from Iran. “It is just not a nice thing to see.” 

A Metro ride passing Business Bay may clarify what Sama is talking about. Besides large segments of the area consisting of sand, construction material is scattered all over the place. 

“We follow strict rules from the Environment, Health and Safety Department when it comes to keeping the place clean, says an executive of Al-Shafar Group, one of the contractors responsible for 13 buildings in Business Bay. “I am sure the view of scattered construction material is not sustained by us.”

Fortune Group, another contractor in Business Bay responsible for the aluminium work of several projects also refuses to take blame, as it is not undertaking any actual construction. 

With many contractors involved in many projects abandoned, it is, however, hard to say who is to blame for the appearance of the construction site and why. 

"While the road network is still under construction, DPG is working with all the relevant authorities to ensure that everything will be completed up to the required standards,” says a spokesperson of DPG.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/business-bay-construction-saga-continues-2011-11-03-1.426755


----------



## Mohammad61

*I want to sell my house*

A 14 Marla 2 Storey Semi Detached house for sale with 4 bedrooms attached bathrooms,2 Lounges,Lush green Lawn etc on Main University Road Peshawar Pakistan in Falcon Complex the price is 2 Crore Pak Rs (20000000)


----------



## True Blue

AppleMac said:


> Sorry but I dont buy that - all off-plan projects were based on staged payments so the Developers had guaranteed cashflow at each milestone.
> 
> This is not like the UK market where the developer takes responsibility for financing the project up until completion and sale.


The developer is not dealing with a single project financer, he is dealing with hundreds of them. Most of which were flippers and profiteers who defaulted when they could not sell and bail out. The developers income was far from guaranteed.


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> ^^ Nice rhetoric, but sadly that's all it is. Personally I know several hundred Dubai investors and potential owner occupiers (outside SSC). Not a single one of them has defaulted (yet).
> 
> And wider research suggests that the average payment by all investors is over 60% of the (inflated) 2006/7 purchase prices, agreed in signed SPAs for non started projects.
> 
> Construction costs (labour & materials) have significantly reduced, due in no small part to the economic crisis.
> 
> I, like many others, are well aware that most developers having realised that their previous 'force majeure' type excuses are now wearing incredibly thin, particularly after even Marwan (RERA CEO) publicly ridiculed FM as a nonsense excuse in the case of Dubai. So they are all now using the excuse of 'um everyone's defaulted'. But my experience and other extensive research (which is not hard to do, now we have the internet) is that it's largely fabricated nonsense.*
> 
> I was at an investors meeting recently, for one particular development, where there were around 150 investors and potential owner occs attending. We had previously been given the tried and tested lines: firstly various force majeure type shenanigans and then more recently 'most investors have defaulted'.
> 
> Reality is, both the above excuses are laughable, as the majority of most of investors in this one had actually met each other. None of them had defaulted, partly because they know that despite other rhetoric of various authorities, everyone realises that defaulting is not an realistic option, under current regulation.
> 
> As stated before: Proper Regulation is the only sensible resolution to adopt, for the benefit of future AND existing consumers/owners in the real estate market.


"_*Nice rhetoric, but sadly that's all it is*_." :lol: and you wonder why I don't get involved in healthy debate with you.

_*Construction costs (labour & materials) have significantly reduced, due in no small part to the economic crisis*._ That is the case since 2009, however prior to the peak construction costs were running out of control. Contractors were over commited and were in no mood for submitting cheap tenders with fluctuating price clauses. So the developers that started were tied in with the inflated prices and were already working on tight margins with no room to manoevre if 10% or less of their clients defaulted. Since 2009 prices have come down but the contractors knew there was cash flow issues cropping up everywhere. They then stipulated that all new work had to be taken on with financial guarantees from the developer or a bank bond. Most private developers could not obtain these assurances hence the projects stalled.

Let me tell you about people in real life, they might stand in front of you and say they did not default, however you can be guaranteed most will have lied to you. The developer who built my house recently went bust. We got into a legal fight with the administrator to get the common landscaping completed. Through the solicitors that we hired we found out that 8 of our neighbours had not bought their houses as they had been unable to arrange mortgages or sell their previous houses. The cash strapped builder had still let them take the keys and move in paying his bank a 4%pa over base penalty on the sale price. They had not paid their maintenance either. These were the people who had put the builder out of business by signing a sale agreement and not being able to complete the sale. None owned upto these facts until our solicitor uncovered all the lies. The greedy banks were also heavily involved willing to take the 4% over base interest only payments from them. So I have now got experience of asking people if they have defaulted and them saying "no" to my face. Also them sitting at RA meetings saying how shocking it is that people are not paying their maintenance fees knowing the property management is not allowed to reveal details of peoples account status until we later received a court order exposing all the liars.


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> *Most* of which were flippers and profiteers who defaulted when they could not sell and bail out.


'Most'? - really? 

Any evidence to back that up because I seem to remember that at the peak reports of defaults were running at about 10-20%


----------



## MarkWass

TB, you make some valid points, and are aware that the developers had to take on some of the speculation themselves with the guarantees. Therefore correctly they had to take on more financial responsibility.
But I still don't understand why, on the whole, you seem to think regulation, consumer protection and law enforcement is something of a red herring. 
Do you have any comments on iced's post?


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> TB, you make some valid points, and are aware that the developers had to take on some of the speculation themselves with the guarantees. Therefore correctly they had to take on more financial responsibility.
> But I still don't understand why, on the whole, you seem to think regulation, consumer protection and law enforcement is something of a red herring.
> Do you have any comments on iced's post?


It's not so much of a red herring as it is something that is difficult to implement after the horse has bolted. We have civil distrubance laws over here but when there was widespread riots the law was pretty much useless. Similary in Dubai the real estate problems are so widespread that the backlog can not be controlled until they return to a manageble level. I think the courts, Rera and the Land department would struggle just to cope with the compalints of Damac alone!

The whole debacle will take years to sort out. I have been to the land department with investors who have valid complaints about bad developers. The Land department legal peole just tell you that there are laws now so take them to court. I guess once the courts rule against the bad developers that the Lands department will have solid grounds to act.

There are new laws out which will protect off plan buyers in the future, however Dubai now has a nasty track record and an oversupply problem, who would want to be a developer in Dubai now?


----------



## True Blue

AppleMac said:


> 'Most'? - really?
> 
> Any evidence to back that up because I seem to remember that at the peak reports of defaults were running at about 10-20%


You and I both know that "The Reports" don't tell the whole truth. Once the reports land on Dubai plc desk they are changed to prevent panick. Sheffield investments reported 60% default rate!


----------



## agod

Philippa C said:


> TB, I too think you've been singled out with many of your remarks taken out of context. I particularly like reading your and Agod's posts as they are always reasonable and full of experience.
> 
> Mark, we invested heavily in Dubai much to our regret but we've taken the outlook that we have to live with it. At the time no-one put a gun to our heads and made us buy anything, it was our decision. We were genuine investors trying to build up a portfolio of properties, something we've done with success abroad. It has not worked out for us in Dubai as the market was too different from what we are used to.



Thanks Philippa, that's very kind of you, TB, or Brother Scott is a member of the same club as mine, and we generally like to show Respect, Charity, and Humility to our Fellow Brother, and of course Sister.

He is extremely knowledgable on Construction matters and would be a great loss to this forum if he went, ask him anything and he will come up with or get the answer, A lot here think he has a high opinion of himself, but it comes from his extensive background in Construction, that's enough of that, B******T on the other hand he knows he is in the Arse End, but still, he has had it rented for many years.


A.


----------



## True Blue

agod said:


> Thanks Philippa, that's very kind of you, TB, or Brother Scott is a member of the same club as mine, and we generally like to show Respect, Charity, and Humility to our Fellow Brother, and of course Sister.
> 
> He is extremely knowledgable on Construction matters and would be a great loss to this forum if he went, ask him anything and he will come up with or get the answer, A lot here think he has a high opinion of himself, but it comes from his extensive background in Construction, that's enough of that, B******T on the other hand he knows he is in the Arse End, but still, he has had it rented for many years.
> 
> 
> A.


So long as the arse end doesn't fall out of my bank account, I'll stay a happy chappy :lol:


----------



## worried4

*BLOG*



AppleMac said:


> Depends on your personal circumstance - if you are a UK citizen and *UK Resident* then although Sharia law will apply in the event of a death, the court will generally accept a UK Will (I have never heard of them not doing so)
> 
> It gets a bit more vague if you are a UK citizen but have *UAE Residence* - in that case the court may accept the UK will but it is not guaranteed.
> 
> Either way it will take extra time to go through the process if you do not have a locally registered will.


Is there a blog that discusses these issues in Dubai?:cheers:


----------



## speculator

Impy said:


> hi all,
> 
> I would appreciate any info on what one does in regards to Wills in UAE.
> 
> If and when one takes delivery of an appartment / villa in the UAE ,having paid the full price, and they are residents and citizens of the UK , do they have to engage in arranging a Will under Sharjah Law to protect their property in the event of death etc ?
> 
> Many thanks


UK will is sufficient. As I understand it is the country of residence will that dictates the dispersal of assets. However I am not clear of what the implications are if one is a British Muslim, as I am, I have been led to believe that the UAE court can use its own discretion and apply sharia law in case of a Muslim regardless of will.

Any opinions ?


----------



## speculator

worried4 said:


> Is there a blog that discusses these issues in Dubai?:cheers:


Yes thats what ive been trying to find. As always in the UAE the info & rules are not clear cut.


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> It's not so much of a red herring as it is something that is difficult to implement after the horse has bolted. We have civil distrubance laws over here but when there was widespread riots the law was pretty much useless. Similary in Dubai the real estate problems are so widespread that the backlog can not be controlled until they return to a manageble level. I think the courts, Rera and the Land department would struggle just to cope with the compalints of Damac alone!
> 
> The whole debacle will take years to sort out. I have been to the land department with investors who have valid complaints about bad developers. The Land department legal peole just tell you that there are laws now so take them to court. I guess once the courts rule against the bad developers that the Lands department will have solid grounds to act.
> 
> There are new laws out which will protect off plan buyers in the future, however Dubai now has a nasty track record and an oversupply problem, who would want to be a developer in Dubai now?


I hear what you're saying, but I still think that it's not beyond the capabilities of the authorities to make a basic start at enforcing the existing laws, even though granted, a difficult task. I think it's crucial that they do show the world with actions, not words. People are not interested with press releases about the future.

But that's not the point of this post. TB, I just wanted to say that I was genuinely never meaning to bate you, even if it came out that way. I guess without the benefit of intonation of spoken words and facial expression, that one automatically gets with a face to face interaction, it's sometimes very easy to take written words on a forum in a certain way (ie not the way they were intended).

Any way I apologise for posts that I have made in your direction, that you have seen as unnecessarily antagonistic.

Mark


----------



## FWIW

MarkWass said:


> I hear what you're saying, but I still think that it's not beyond the capabilities of the authorities to make a basic start at enforcing the existing laws, even though granted, a difficult task. I think it's crucial that they do show the world with actions, not words. People are not interested with press releases about the future.
> 
> But that's not the point of this post. TB, I just wanted to say that I was genuinely never meaning to bate you, even if it came out that way. I guess without the benefit of intonation of spoken words and facial expression, that one automatically gets with a face to face interaction, it's sometimes very easy to take written words on a forum in a certain way (ie not the way they were intended).
> 
> Any way I apologise for posts that I have made in your direction, that you have seen as unnecessarily antagonistic.
> 
> Mark


Good post and now I hope we can get on with the real interesting debates!

I will kick off with: Dubai already has many rules and laws, why are these not enforced? Also, how would a war in Iran affect Dubai? Hopefully this does not happen but let's get some discussion going!


----------



## HappyLarry

FWIW said:


> Good post and now I hope we can get on with the real interesting debates!
> 
> I will kick off with: Dubai already has many rules and laws, why are these not enforced? Also, how would a war in Iran affect Dubai? Hopefully this does not happen but let's get some discussion going!


With reference to attack on Iran, it is possible that the Real Estate could benefit from some migration to safety. However, if UAE takes sides with US/Israel/UK (who are the countries likely to instigate such an attack) then let's hope hostilities don't spread to UAE.
Iran's Nuclear programme is an inevitability and a possible plus should be a level playing field and a swift resolution to issues such as Palestine.
Peace.


----------



## glover

^^^^^that's assuming iran is really sincere about backing the palestinian cause and not using it to merely increase its regional influence!! a nuclear iran with its current regime means they will use that as a leverage against all countries of the region, including the gulf states and beyond. 

iran has threatened before if they get attacked by any western power and/or their frontier outpost in the middle east (i.e israel) all US allies in the region will be a legitimate target, including all the gulf states. 

i think an attack on iran is highly unlikely in the near term giving the shock waves that will send to the oil markets and the repercussions of that on the struggling western economies. it will severely hit the pockets of your average Joe in the west which will translate into an immediate ouster of the political party in power. unless iran does something really really stupid and justify an attack on them. i think many in the west would rather wait for a regime change from within, which will happen sooner or later imo. one catalyst could be the death of Khamenei, the chief clerk there.

but i agree, it's increasingly becoming an inevitability that iran will become a nuclear power. my 2 cents.



HappyLarry said:


> With reference to attack on Iran, it is possible that the Real Estate could benefit from some migration to safety. However, if UAE takes sides with US/Israel/UK (who are the countries likely to instigate such an attack) then let's hope hostilities don't spread to UAE.
> Iran's Nuclear programme is an inevitability and a possible plus should be a level playing field and a swift resolution to issues such as Palestine.
> Peace.


----------



## cayman1

Yes won both instances to get money back, not on this project. My project never broke ground. 

Do you receive your money back ?


----------



## MarkWass

FWIW said:


> I will kick off with: Dubai already has many rules and laws, why are these not enforced?


That was exactly the question that I (and many others inside and outside of SSC) was raising.


----------



## Kevin Beacon

I think real estate market is in recession every where and according to the experts prediction the real estate market will boom again after spring 2012 and people should start investing in real estate sector after it so that they will get profitable returns on their investments..!!


----------



## True Blue

I've had a few emails over the last week offering mortgage deals. 3.99% from the United Arab Bank!

Wondering how they got my details because I have never heard of UAB. Could it possibly be one of the banks that viewed all the Cayan Projects recently and looking to target their developments/customers? I know the other one that emailed me ~Tamweel, have already approved Cayan projects!

A good sign for Cayan stock if this is the case


----------



## AppleMac

speculator said:


> UK will is sufficient. As I understand it is the country of residence will that dictates the dispersal of assets. However I am not clear of what the implications are if one is a British Muslim, as I am, *I have been led to believe that the UAE court can use its own discretion and apply sharia law in case of a Muslim regardless of will.*
> 
> Any opinions ?


Correct - in your case I would get a local will drawn up if you dont want Sharia Law to apply. Although being a Muslim why wouldn't you?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> I've had a few emails over the last week offering mortgage deals. 3.99% from the United Arab Bank!
> 
> Wondering how they got my details because I have never heard of UAB. Could it possibly be one of the banks that viewed all the Cayan Projects recently and looking to target their developments/customers? I know the other one that emailed me ~Tamweel, have already approved Cayan projects!
> 
> A good sign for Cayan stock if this is the case


I got that email also, so nothing at all to do with Cayan


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai_Steve said:


> I got that email also, so nothing at all to do with Cayan


Me to.


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> I've had a few emails over the last week offering mortgage deals. 3.99% from the United Arab Bank!
> 
> Wondering how they got my details because I have never heard of UAB. Could it possibly be one of the banks that viewed all the Cayan Projects recently and looking to target their developments/customers? I know the other one that emailed me ~Tamweel, have already approved Cayan projects!
> 
> A good sign for Cayan stock if this is the case





Dubai_Steve said:


> I got that email also, so nothing at all to do with Cayan





noir-dresses said:


> Me to.


Me too.

Developers ( or someone from their office) sold (or someone was stolen) their database before , many real estate companies have the whole database of Dubai freehold projects.. so now probably gave to banks as well


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> Me too.
> 
> Developers ( or someone from their office) sold (or someone was stolen) their database before , many real estate companies have the whole database of Dubai freehold projects.. so now probably gave to banks as well


I guess that information is worth money to the right people. I thought the handover of Silverene had something to do with it, and there was me putting 2 and 2 together and came out with 5 :lol:


----------



## baba toto

Hi MMDXB

Please also ask about Lawns 3. I would really appreciate it as I have also been lied to by DEC. Thanks


----------



## True Blue

^^I do umderstand what they are trying to prevent. Homeless people hang out in Metros all over the world. Buy a cheap ticket and reside on the air conditioned trains all day or sleep on the station benches. It can be a little uncomfortable if someone sitting next to you falls asleep and their head rolls about landing on you, especially if they don't look clean. Perhaps the person who fined the student was a little over zealous, or didn't like Americans. Or both!


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> or didn't like Americans.


perhaps they thought they were Canadian? :cripes:


----------



## I Know

True Blue said:


> ^^I do umderstand what they are trying to prevent. Homeless people hang out in Metros all over the world. Buy a cheap ticket and reside on the air conditioned trains all day or sleep on the station benches. It can be a little uncomfortable if someone sitting next to you falls asleep and their head rolls about landing on you, especially if they don't look clean. Perhaps the person who fined the student was a little over zealous, or didn't like Americans. Or both!


Agree with your comments.

If the rents come down a little more then maybe people who have started to stay at the stations could move out so we dont have heads that belong to people (with or without odour) rolling onto passengers that have been prevented from falling asleep due to the heavy duty odour.


----------



## Josau

True Blue said:


> ^^I do umderstand what they are trying to prevent. Homeless people hang out in Metros all over the world. Buy a cheap ticket and reside on the air conditioned trains all day or sleep on the station benches. It can be a little uncomfortable if someone sitting next to you falls asleep and their head rolls about landing on you, especially if they don't look clean. Perhaps the person who fined the student was a little over zealous, or didn't like Americans. Or both!


^^It is happening all over Dubai International Airport. When you get in at Terminal 1 at around 7 a.m. there are sleeping bodies all over the place. Of course there they can't be fined, because it is people who are on transit and let's face it , there are no facilities for these people other than the floor of the terminal. And these people are not homeless, they are just "bed less"


----------



## agod

Our beloved Chairman is selling his home for a cool 42.500.000 AED

Any takers. http://www.luxhabitat.ae/ref/852

A.


----------



## True Blue

^^Sure it isn't ACC that is selling it? :lol:

It is nice but wouldn't pay that kind of money if I had it. Cayan chairman's penthouse in Le Residencia del Mar was nicer and only about 10M from memory. Also had private pool. Maintenance charges for that semi villa will be around 200k alone.


----------



## I Know

The beach club is really just the cherry on top of a very sour relationship that’s been developing between DPG and the JBR residents. hno:



http://www.kippreport.com/2011/11/jbr-residents-fight-for-broken-promises/?bnr=


----------



## agod

NO, Its the Chairman of the HOA Board, we have no Trident personel here.

I dont know how he arrived at that dream figure, I will let you know if it sells.

A


----------



## Morrismarina

agod said:


> Our beloved Chairman is selling his home for a cool 42.500.000 AED
> 
> Any takers. http://www.luxhabitat.ae/ref/852
> 
> A.


It's very nice but would not suit me as I'm not to keen to trade down to "a semi detached house". :lol:


----------



## SagarDubai

aaaa


----------



## MMDXB

Hey Baba...sorry your post came to late....maybe next meeting. Only what I ask was the project in culture village and there I got the information it is right now with the rulers office....can't tell more.

Well in general it's hard to judge who is telling the truth and I think it would be only possible to give one of the DEC guys some money under the table and he/she is open his mouth. Hard to say if true or not true. I've been now also for a while in Dubai and customers confronted me also earlier telling "you guys only taking the money from customer" ( i was working before for an exclusive car dealer ) without them having any idea about the internal facts....Here it is similar....surely they have massive problems and also struggle a lot but can we all not be still happy that we have at least an office where we can go and people to whom we can talk. So many invested in Dubai property and are left with empty hands because the people run away or the money is gone....Surely all of us lost a lot of money and I'm really not happy about but maybe they really try to solve it one by one.....just a note from my side.....I'm still fighting for my right.....I met Ms. Amel Khalifa for more then 1 hour and explained our general view...Either she understands the general frustration or she is a good player. They offered me to swap to another apartment in Lawns 4 which is I think still better then the whole for Lawns 2.....just right now I'm negotiating as I don't accept any admin fee for there bad service....for myself I think still the best solution because opening a case against them might just let me loss more money cause how is the winning chance in this country where RERA not even accepting a general complaint because the project not canceled....no matter how much each individual lost....right now can be only the target to minimize the lost.....


----------



## speculator

^^^^

LOL....the guys dreaming. :lol:


----------



## Josau

I Know said:


> The beach club is really just the cherry on top of a very sour relationship that’s been developing between DPG and the JBR residents. hno:
> http://www.kippreport.com/2011/11/jbr-residents-fight-for-broken-promises/?bnr=


I love this phrase in the article: _Do you know other developers who’ve held out on their promises? Are you in a similar situation? email us at [email protected]_
Also the article stresses the need to have everything in writing. As we all know, this doesn't make any difference, so much was written and signed and then not delivered. There is still a long way to something, which could be called justice?


----------



## SagarDubai

Hi MMDXB, thnx for your feeback reg the meeting you had with Ms. Amel. In the past too I had a change to meet her couple of times. She is a smooth talker.. Dont get conned!! Before one starts, she will give you her pitch!! Immediatly give you the impression that they are in a bigger mess than we are !!!! (... but what for????) and she will have a sob story!!! But the fact is that they are sitting on our hard earned money and doing nothing!! They have failed to fulfil the contracts and commitments to their customers!! 
 
Regarding meeting others forget it.!!!.. There's only 3 people you can meet.... the receptionist (fillipino) Ms. Amel (UAE local) and Ms. Bushra - Operations Manager (UAE Local). Forget meeting Dheeraj.. he does not show his face in UAE. Mr. Sailesh Jataniya (CFO) he hides in his cabin and passes his time sitting reading the newspaper. Is this the way they run their business when we are all suffering??? 
. 
Friends these DEC guys are bull shittting all of us for months and we cannot do anything !! A day wil come when they chase us for something (say a payment or return some doc..) and thats when we can give it back to them... Hope they are reading our blog and have some shame to respond on this forum.


----------



## I Know

No more residential units please, there lots empty already hno: :nuts:

Despite a housing market that is widely seen as being oversupplied, Mohamed Alabbar said Dubai still has room for properties at a price point of around AED500,000 (about $136,000).

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/emaar-sees-niche-for-low-cost-housing-in-dubai-430888.html


----------



## sgn7200

Hi MMDXB - I am glad she sent you back home in a good mood. So you did not have to do anything under the table and instead she served you freshly squeezed apple juice to lift your spirits. Just sit back and think again. Did you go there to listen to her **** and bull story. She has offered to move you from Big Zero (Lawns 2) to a even Bigger Zero (Lawns IV). Did you not have the courage to tell her that if both the projects are "On Hold", what is she giving you for moving from Lawns 2 which has not started and the money is presumably sitting in the Escrow a/c. On Lawns 4, they seem to have spent what they had and are now thinking of some tricks for getting money to go back again. You mentioned culture village problem being with the Government, just ask RERA and they will give you the same answer as they gave you for Lawns 2. If you were then to go back to DEC with the answer from RERA, they will tell you, we are in the process of appointing new contractor. They have all the answers to make sure they are living in their Comfort Zone with our money. Heard of the story of a firm of liquidators. You call them to sort out the mess in the company and they stay and squander all the money remaining and leave only when it is finished. Same is the case here. These guys are living comfortably, reading newspapers and enjoying long holidays, all at our expense. Then they tell you how lucky we are that they are still around. My friends, alarm bells are ringing and you need to wake up before it is too late. Go to RERA and ask them to order an investigation on DEC. Ask for an interim report from the Auditors. You must all do something otherwise we might as well say "GOODBYE" to our hard earned money.


----------



## SagarDubai

Investors in Lawns 4 and Lawns 5.... There are some construction update pics posted on the DEC website for Lawns 4 and Lawns 5.. check them out... Hope they are not fake!! Cant trust these guys any longer !! I would strongly suggest that it will also be good if you'll can go to the site (Lawns 4 and Lawns 5) and check it out the truth for yourselves. The truth to know if they are bullshitting us or if its real !!! Take some pics with your camera and upload them here so that we all can know if its true or if they are just bull shiting us!! This is very very important my friends!

Secondly it will be of great help to all of us if any one can get hold of some info on who the Auditor is for DEC. This report will be very crucial for all of us to know exactly where DEC stands!! This will also help us to chalk out our next plan as to if we should go to RERA and file our complaints. 

Friends the other issue is that if we cancel they will never ever refund our money. They will never "CANCEL" cos If they do, then they will need to refund all the monies owed to us and the banks that financed on our behalf!! This they will never ever do it.. They will keep us hanging on for ever and leave us in hope that one day they will start the construction... This is a really hopeless situation for us all to be in ...hno:


----------



## I Know

Sorry to hear the issues relating to this project, it seems like legal action will be the way forward as there is not much happening on site


----------



## mowy2611

Did everyone receive that joke of a marketing email?

This is what I got

> Dear Dubai Star Clients
>
> RERA Executives
>
> Dubai Star Working Team
>
> *
>
> Greetings from ACI Dubai !!
>
> *
>
> We are pleased to announce that we successfully completed the casting of the 30th slab last night !!
>
> We are attaching *updated *site photos and CED approvals which are self explanatory.
>
> *
>
> We are targeting to reach the next slab within 12-14 days from today, where the next payment mile stone will be due from most of the clients.
>
> All clients will be soon receiving the first payment reminder with a consultant proof certificates, and installment would be required to be paid into Escrow account in NBAD. *
>
> After completion of the next slab there will be a technical audit report from RERA auditors (Real Point) where RERA will update their web site with the latest project updates !!
>
> *
>
> I would like to thank all the team involved in Dubai Star progress for their hard and continues support to complete the project, as well as the clients for their patience and EXPECTED future support ( WE ARE on The RIGHT TRACK ) !!!
>
> *
>
> *
>
> Thanks* & Regards,
>
> Customer Service Department
>
> Tel:** +971 4 4478950 / +971 4 4357207
>
> Fax:* +971 4 4357205
>
> Email:*** [email protected]
>
> Website: http://www.acigroup.ae


----------



## imranswifty

I hear Mina Al Arab is a new and happening place in Ras Al Khaimah... 

this 360 virtual tour says it all....!!

http://360emirates.com/panos/360emirates.php?id=130


----------



## jonny.rotten13

worried4 said:


> This is an interesting question. Anyone on the board who has knowledge of this?


Anyone on this property and investment thread interested to help answer these property and investment questions?


----------



## jonny.rotten13

jonny.rotten13 said:


> I understood that if you now form a RAK company the Dubai Land department will not allow you to buy properties for that company. Is that true. People who had properties in a RAK company already were ok, but cannot add more in it. Is that true?
> 
> I was told they want people to have Dubai free zone companies instead, so they have more fees and control.
> 
> However if you form a JAFZA company and you are a muslim your shares in the company will still be subject to Sharia law anyway. Is that what you guys understand also. Or does Sharia law not apply if the shareholders and benefecieries are set in the company at formation
> 
> Sharia law can sometimes have a result after death that was not the intention of the person who died. For example someone may have brothers that they do not want to benefit from their death, but Sharia law recognises siblings to benefit. Is that right ?
> 
> If you form a JAFZA company and you have propertiies in personal names at the moment, then is it true that Land department will charge 1% to allow transfer into the company, if the owner of the property and shareholder of JAFZA company is the same. But charge 2% if names are different, just like a sale.
> 
> Does having a JAFZA company allow you to buy and insure and drive a car?
> 
> What is the best and easiest way to buy and insure and drive a car anyway?
> 
> Banks will lend to a JAFZA held property, is that right? Or will the bank want to hold the whole JAFZA company as the mortagee even if not all the properties in the company are lent against ?
> 
> Thanks if someone can comment on all this


IE. Any answers or advice on these. Thanks.


----------



## I Know

*2% registration fee demand illegal*

Should be able to get your rights back with this  unless you agreed otherwise. hno:

Two Grand Muftis of Islamic Affairs and Charitable Activities Department have said that it is illegal by any bank to demand that customers pay the full 2 per cent registration fee for their residential units.

They said the law of the Land Department is the one which should be applicable. The law requires both buyer and seller to pay 1 per cent each towards the Land Department registration fee of 2 per cent of the sale price.

Recently, some investors in residential units financed under the Shariah-compliant Ijara system, said their Islamic bank is demanding that buyers pay the full 2 per cent registration fee for their apartments.

They said that the Ijara contract they had signed several years ago with the bank did not provide any specific percentage for the registration fee, which would be as is applicable under the law at the time of registration. The law provides that the fees of 2 per cent be shared equally between the buyer and the seller.

Dr. Ali Ahmed Mashael, the Grand Mufti at Dubai Fatwa Department, said in his 'fatwa' that the property law applied by the Land Department has priority [over Ijara] as the Land Department in Dubai represents the competent authority concerned with such things.

Meanwhile, Dr. Ahmed Abdul Aziz Al Haddad, Grand Mufti and head of the Islamic Affairs Department, said that as long as the law of the Land Department has identified the percentage paid by the investor, the investor has the right to refuse payment of the fees set by the bank, which should adhere to the percentage set by the Land Department.

In case the seller (bank or developer) refused, the client has the right to file a lawsuit against them for exceeding the system to be followed.

The Grand Mufti of Dubai Dr Al Haddad added that if the client approved the request of the bank and dropped his right in writing by signing such a contract, then he has to accept his commitment, because the contract was signed between them by mutual consent.

If it [amount of registration fees] was not clear in the contract with the client, or the term was within the provisions of a contract which has no room for debate, then in such cases the client has the right to appeal before competent authorities, otherwise he is obliged to pay, he added.

http://www.emirates247.com/property/2-registration-fee-demand-illegal-fatwas-2011-11-22-1.429427


----------



## cayman1

mowy2611 said:


> Did everyone receive that joke of a marketing email?
> 
> This is what I got
> 
> > Dear Dubai Star Clients
> >
> > RERA Executives
> >
> > Dubai Star Working Team
> >
> > *
> >
> > Greetings from ACI Dubai !!
> >
> > *
> >
> > We are pleased to announce that we successfully completed the casting of the 30th slab last night !!
> >
> > We are attaching *updated *site photos and CED approvals which are self explanatory.
> >
> > *
> >
> > We are targeting to reach the next slab within 12-14 days from today, where the next payment mile stone will be due from most of the clients.
> >
> > All clients will be soon receiving the first payment reminder with a consultant proof certificates, and installment would be required to be paid into Escrow account in NBAD. *
> >
> > After completion of the next slab there will be a technical audit report from RERA auditors (Real Point) where RERA will update their web site with the latest project updates !!
> >
> > *
> >
> > I would like to thank all the team involved in Dubai Star progress for their hard and continues support to complete the project, as well as the clients for their patience and EXPECTED future support ( WE ARE on The RIGHT TRACK ) !!!
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> > Thanks* & Regards,
> >
> > Customer Service Department
> >
> > Tel:** +971 4 4478950 / +971 4 4357207
> >
> > Fax:* +971 4 4357205
> >
> > Email:*** [email protected]
> >
> > Website: http://www.acigroup.ae


In my opinion dont pay , aci go up 1 floor and again stop work after take $ like always .


----------



## Ruslan Isin

cayman1 said:


> In my opinion dont pay , aci go up 1 floor and again stop work after take $ like always .


But if we do not pay, how do they build? Then we will never wait for successful completion, and then we can blame only themselves.


----------



## noir-dresses

From what I see people in regards to Marina, and JLT we are nearing the end of the worst of it.

Once the big boys Princess Tower, Marina 23, Elite Tower, Infinity are done, handed over, occupied, and a few more smaller buildings like Bay Central, etc, etc we are good to go. I don't really see any more big capacity being put on the market after that, and if the dynamics of the community are good it should be able to absorb all of this. I really see no new builds being built to the extent we saw till now. We should reach a point of market stability, and maybe more demand compared to availability I hope.

JLT more or, less only has office buildings to be finished. Many new companies opened shop in JLT, so all those people need some where to live, and Marina, JLT would be the obvious choice.

Could this be the light at the end of the tunnel, or am I missing some thing here ?

2015 could actually be the magic number as far as we are concerned.


----------



## TerryPop

Hello all- srry this is completely off topic.

Can any one recommend a great marina hotel in dubai for a two night stay.

Tried marina mall (the address) but it is full (we need 2 rooms tmrw night for 2 nights)

Would prefer to be in and around marina


----------



## UAE Investor

Build your own skyscraper..!

Building plot in the Marina for 25,000AED Sq ft 

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-for-sale/land/2011/11/21/plot-for-sale-in-dubai-marina-2/


----------



## TerryPop

UAE Investor said:


> Build your own skyscraper..!
> 
> Building plot in the Marina for 25,000AED Sq ft
> 
> http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-for-sale/land/2011/11/21/plot-for-sale-in-dubai-marina-2/



Cheers  will buy it on saturday flip it on Sunday.:banana:


----------



## 234sale

I am doing what Imre is doing...

FYI today sold a DIFC unit at 1000 AED sqft

Deals a plenty...



As to dubizzle,, its all BS...


----------



## I Know

TerryPop said:


> Cheers  will buy it on saturday flip it on Sunday.:banana:


No mate, Sunday is too late, the prices would have gone down by then, try and do the deal on the same day and only accept cash :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

A conversation has grown from a marina tower thread, so I wanted to move it here for general investment discussion in the correct thread



Dubai_Steve said:


> Both myself and a friend of mine are currently getting circa 6.7% NET rental (after service charges and chiller fees paid) on the Torch 2 bed for the current market price of 1.1m. Not sure if that is a 'good rental return' in the current market or not? How do other towers currently compare on their current market values?





Dubai_Steve said:


> Please compare like for like. How much is the NET yield for the CURRENT market price
> 
> You need 3 numbers to get the current yield; current purchase price, current rental price for that exact unit and total maintenance charges (including chiller fees).





> If comparing developments now for potential investors and to compare the market, we should use the current market values for all. It is not very useful to compare yields for what people paid originally as people bought at different times at different prices in different market conditions. Also as some people bought using a mortgage (or the equivalent LPP) some did not etc. we should not include any mortgage interest in the calculation.


Here is the calculation for the 2 bed marina facing unit in question.

Torch 2 bed (marina facing):

Current gross rental: AED 100k pa
Current market price: AED 1.1m
Current service charges (including chiller): 1280 sqf * 20.78 = AED 26,598


Gross Yield = 100,000 / 1,100,000 = 9%

Net Yield = (100,000 - 26,598) / 1,100,000 = 6.7%

(management fees not included, as some people self manage)


----------



## AppleMac

^^^^

Marina Diamond 1 bed.

Sale price 500,000

rental 50,000 - 10,000 maintenance fees = 40,000 = 8%


----------



## FWIW

Dubai_Steve said:


> Both myself and a friend of mine are currently getting circa 6.7% NET rental (after service charges and chiller fees paid) on the Torch 2 bed for the current market price of 1.1m. Not sure if that is a 'good rental return' in the current market or not? How do other towers currently compare on their current market values?


If I get 6.7% Net on my Bay Central investment I will be pleased - however please note that I use the final 15 year LLP Investment Price as the ROI - not the ever changing and subjective Current Market Value, assumed service charges of circa 21k aed and property management fees of 6% rental values 

Again these ROIs mean nothing if we don't comapre apples with apples - my JBR yields (real world figures) are well into double digits!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

AppleMac said:


> ^^^^
> 
> Marina Diamond 1 bed.
> 
> Sale price 500,000
> 
> rental 50,000 - 10,000 maintenance fees = 40,000 = 8%


interesting to see marina diamonds still one of the best yielding units. Did you that include chiller fees in the 10,000?

can anyone beat 8% current yield on current prices?


----------



## W40arx

Guys, we have no option and to be honest what difference would it make now? we have paid all the instalments so far (only 20% left), if we don't pay then we forfeit our contract and loose the money, but if we continue to pay then there is that glimmer of hope that it will complete and we WILL get the right outcome.


----------



## Ahmed N

W40arx said:


> Guys, we have no option and to be honest what difference would it make now? we have paid all the instalments so far (only 20% left), if we don't pay then we forfeit our contract and loose the money, but if we continue to pay then there is that glimmer of hope that it will complete and we WILL get the right outcome.




Hi Agreed, we have to make the payments, otherwise we will have forfeited, and then they will give the unit we purchased to another investor - one who maybe has purchase another development - which has not even started. They will most probably snatch ACI's offer - better to have a unit at Dubai Star than nothing at all..........

I sent an e-mail to Mr El Sharaawy, his reply as follows:-

"I will reply to your points stated below as follows:

-No work through the night as per the DMCC rules because the buildings next to us already occupied with residence, exceptionally they will allow us to do so only when we will pour a concrete slab.

-We are not looking for 1 or 2 slabs every month, we can do minimum 3 slabs a month and work will commence in full internally upon reaching the next slab and see the how serious client will consider payment of the next milestone !!

- As I mentioned to you earlier clients payment will reflect on the progress of the project so all should be clear to us on the coming few weeks , will keep you posted.

Best Regards

Mohamed El Shaarawy

Head of Real Estate External Relations"


His words, they can proceed if people make their payments.......


----------



## mowy2611

So what Shaarawy is saying is if I pay and most customers don't pay progress wil stop. Wow now I feel so much more secure to pay.

Any ideas guys?


----------



## Ahmed N

mowy2611 said:


> So what Shaarawy is saying is if I pay and most customers don't pay progress wil stop. Wow now I feel so much more secure to pay.
> 
> Any ideas guys?


The way I see this, if investors don't pay, it will most certainly delay things even more. 

I remember when I met with Mr Sharaawy 2 years ago, he said that when they reach 30th floor, the money they receive from investors will cover the project and given them enough money to finish the project.

The money will be paid into escrow account, so that should give us some peace of mind.

What I dont understand - is that the Engineer and Mr Sharaawy both said that after Eid, we will see allot of acitivity - things will progress quick - BUT
from the pictures, there are no workers...........

You just cannot trust them.....but what choice do we have?

hno:


----------



## FWIW

True Blue said:


> Sales prices of studios became ridiculous probably influenced by the rentals they were acheiving and the larger market caused by their affordability. Look at it now, people have paid 2000AED/ft for a studio that will rent for 40k.
> 
> Targeting 2 bedders is not a bad decision as I am finding now that my 2 bed is the stronger performer. In 2009 it was the other way round and the 1 bed unit was earnig the same as the 2 bed apt. I am concerned about the poor returns for 3 bedders which only rent for marginaly higher rates than 2 beds. Seems to indicate that the marina is not a family friendly environment.


Nice post TB - triggered something in my mind and I went on a search and found this post of mine from Dec 2007:



FWIW said:


> High Times - Good post and thoughtful debate.
> 
> However, the reason I invested in a 2 bed was because of my view of my target renter.
> 
> I believe (rightly or wrongly) that my target renter is an expat with a good job and been recently relocated to Dubai. The renter's employer has a fixed budget with which to provide them with accomodation.
> 
> My 'rudimentry' thought process went:
> Studio - way too small for my target renter (and I agree with you that these are bought en mass by speculators usally using finance and generally talking yields)
> 1 bed - too small for my target renter (would be good for individuals, First Time Buyers, young family)
> 2 bed - just right for my target renter (1 bedroom to sleep in the other for guests esp. friends/family that have come over also if my target renters job disappears then an aspiring studio/1bedder person would probably like to move up the property ladder!)
> 3 bed - too big for my target renter (would be ideal for an emigrating family)
> 4 bed - way too big for my target renter (would be good for locals if they like living in towers)
> Penthouse - too flash for my target renter (would be good for CEO's due to exclusivity,etc)
> 
> The reason I did not invest in a 3 bed property is primarily because these are for families and therefore in competetion with villas. If I myself had the choice I would prefer to live in a villa with swimming pool and gardens. hmmm somewhere like the palm would be nice...however, I decided with my mind and not my heart!
> 
> Now once I made up my mind that I wanted a 2 bed, I invested in the highest one available and one with the best views possible (in my opinion having sea *&* marina views is important for wow factor). The reason I did this was to ensure that my appartment had something the lower appartments did not (due to being lower down and looking into another tower).
> 
> High Times (or anyone else) please do not take any of what I have said or done as criticism - we will all do well by investing in Dubai and especially in Dubai Marina.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> fwiw


Full thread with some good debate is here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=514178&highlight=bed&page=242

I think what I said has stood the test of time and a funking massive credit crunch!


----------



## True Blue

^^I went on Dubizzle recently and the home page included 2 deals in the marina that made my eyes pop out. A 3 bed in JBR 2000ft for 1.4M and a 4 bed in Horizon tower for 1.8M. The market for the larger apartments in the marina seems to be under pressure. Plenty of penthouses for sale also.


----------



## FWIW

True Blue said:


> ^^I went on Dubizzle recently and the home page included 2 deals in the marina that made my eyes pop out. A 3 bed in JBR 2000ft for 1.4M and a 4 bed in Horizon tower for 1.8M. The market for the larger apartments in the marina seems to be under pressure. Plenty of penthouses for sale also.


I don't much trust Dubizzle...

AppleMac - your post got me thinking so I did a little analysis on my JBR records from Oct 2009 to Nov 2011 of Advertised Prices.

I performed some data cleanising by getting rid off too high values and too low values (using standard deviation).

Here are my results for 2 bedders in JBR:

​AED	Records Used	Records Not Used	Total Records
median buy price 1,446,000.00 124	39	163
median rent price 110,000.00 279	14	293

*median gross yield	7.61%* 

To keep comparisons apples to apples - I have just used the GROSS yield.

Median prices are not real world but would allow you to compare building vs building, etc.

Kyle Bass also stated in a recent BBC Hardtalk interview that he saw the houseprice crash coming because he understood what it means when median incomes vs median house prices were way out of allignment (they should be stable).

Read more here: http://timnovate.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/kyle-bass-sees-what-is-plainly-visible-but-unseen/

Regards,

fwiw


----------



## True Blue

Had a look back at your discussion and revealed some interesting comments 



mackie1964 said:


> It always amazes me how everybody builds this fancy inside their head of how they have done well comparing with others. Unless you have all the facts (especially the different % discount people got early days ) you can't really judge. *Some units are much more difficult to sell or rent and is going to get much more difficult in the future for the larger units.* DS or SG has done a good job with somebody here. Excellent at selling even the 3 bedded rooms


Well done Mackie!



High Times said:


> Mackie, there are some interesting comments that you have made there, some of which are obviously aimed at me, so i think i should do you the courtesy of educating you on a few points.
> 
> Firstly, I agree that everyones situation is different as we have all negotiated different discounts from SP as i said in my last post.
> 
> Secondly, yes we probably all have a view, or (fancy in our head), on how things might turn out in Dubai when the dust settles, and we probably all think that we're right, or else we wouldn't have decided to do what we have all done would we.
> 
> *And now for an educational interlude.*
> 
> 
> 
> The reasons that i have decided to invest in 3 bedroomed units are not due to the polished sales skills of the Select Properties marketing machine. The reasons are as follows;
> 
> You say yourself that some units are much more difficult to sell/rent both now and in the future. Your spot on here. Especialy when the supply demand ratio is more evenely weighted towards the buyer/tennant.
> 
> If we take the Torch in isolation for a moment, when the Torch is eventually finished and some 664 units are available for rent then any interested tennants will have a lot of potential units to choose from. By owning a 3 bed as opposed to a 1 or 2 it gives me as a landlord so much more in the way of what i can offer my tennant to entice him to rent my unit rather than one of the many 2 beds being offered.
> 
> You see I can offer my 3 bed for just a little more (price wise) than a 2 bed which could make the difference between having an empty unit or a tennanted one. Come 2010 -2012 I can see potential in Dubai for a lot of empty units (not so says the Select Property salesman). Well if the shit does hit the fan then i want to have something to offer which is a bit special, something thats not your everyday stack em high 2 bed that the Marina is flooded with.
> 
> When our units in the Torch come to market, and supply is high I would rather rent out my 3 bed for the price of a 2 bed than have it sat empty, (oh but that reduces your rental yield I hear some say), yes and so does owning an empty property I say.
> 
> Also 3 beds as you know will be from floors 66-73. Anything below that and you are looking at concrete in my opinion. I hope not for the many Torch investors that have bought on a lower floor, and for the Marina in general as I think a supertall this close to the edge in District 10 would spoil the asthetics of the area. We will have to wait and see on this but my money is up high to try and offer my clients/tennants something to enjoy from their balconies.
> 
> So for those reasons i decided on 3 beds, simply to *"limit the downside"* . The first rule of any succesfull investor.
> 
> On the other hand if it all goes better than planned and everything has doubled in value when the Torch is complete, then profitablility will be measured with a tape measure and square feet will be converted into cash, thus *"maximising the upside"*. The second rule of any succesfull investor.
> 
> I am a businessman not a builder with a some spare cash to have a go with, so my decisions are based on financial implications, percentages and the laws of economics and probablity.
> 
> Mackie, paradoxicaly your quote that *Some units are much more difficult to sell or rent and is going to get much more difficult in the future for the larger units. DS or SG has done a good job with somebody here *. This is the precise reason that there are so many 1 & 2 beds available, especially in the Marina. Its because when any developer sits down with his architect he says (right now what will sell the easist and quickest). Due to budget, as 80%of property in Dubai is being bought by speculators they build more 1&2 beds than anytything else. We are in a speculators market at the moment. We will be in a very different place in 5-10 years time I can assure you.
> 
> My comments are not intended to cause offence to anyone, but I am hearing all the time from people that 3 beds are the wrong thing to do and IMO this is simply missinformation and needs to be addressed, so there you go.
> 
> Richard Branson once wrote, *"In business the real winners always swim against the tide".*
> 
> If things go the way we all want them to go, then I will be the first to the bar in the Torch when it's all complete to get a round in. :cheers:


Quite a good post High Times, but by now you should be able to identify your own shortcomings. Yes, if the market becomes depressed you can then rent a 3 bed for the rate of a 2 bed, but you forgot to consider that you can also rent a 2 bed for the rate of a good 1 bed. The subtle difference is that a 2 bed unit will have much less maintenance/fixed costs than a 3 bed unit, a 2 bed unit needs less furniture so the extra rooms sometimes are of no use whatsoever. So you haven't limited your down side and failed to implement your own advice. 

Your second rule mentions that you should maximise your upside potential. I'm sorry but you can't own in a dense noisy area and hope to have a high ceiling on rental. For that you need a building like MarinaScape or The Jewels with all large apartments and low density higher quality living. I have always maintained that The Tallest block buildings are a folly and will not be a draw for tenants.

As for the swiming against the tide, it feels like I have been doing that for years on this forum with the masses telling me that the Tallest Block is the place to own and that my choices in a quieter part of the marina are too close to an industrial area to make it an attractive option. Not been a problem for me so far with my easy to rent units. It seems that being close to the traffic links to Abu Dhabi is a factor that was overlooked. I have taken in enough cash to recoup 50% of my total investment, or in other words, 1 of those units is fully paid up. I don't have a negative equity problem either, in fact my Dorra 2 bed has *gone up by 50%* on the OP. Seems I am a strong swimmer


----------



## AppleMac

FWIW said:


> AppleMac - your post got me thinking so I did a little analysis on my JBR records from Oct 2009 to Nov 2011 of Advertised Prices.
> 
> I performed some data cleanising by getting rid off too high values and too low values (using standard deviation).
> 
> Here are my results for 2 bedders in JBR:
> 
> ​AED	Records Used	Records Not Used	Total Records
> median buy price 1,446,000.00 124	39	163
> median rent price 110,000.00 279	14	293
> 
> *median gross yield	7.61%*
> 
> To keep comparisons apples to apples - I have just used the GROSS yield.
> 
> Median prices are not real world but would allow you to compare building vs building, etc.


Good post - and far more useful than simply giving an individuals ROI based on when he bought.

Seems that 6-8% is about the realistic ceiling on ROI in the Marina. Which is probably about right for the type of area.


----------



## True Blue

^^I think that what your example demonstrates is the same as the point I made earlier. Sales values seem to be driven by the perceived rental value of around 6-8%. So real estate agents look at the property, assess what they think it will rent for then divide it by 0.07 and see what the calculator tells them it is worth on the open market.


----------



## FWIW

AppleMac said:


> Good post - and far more useful than simply giving an individuals ROI based on when he bought.
> 
> Seems that 6-8% is about the realistic ceiling on ROI in the Marina. Which is probably about right for the type of area.


Thanks AppleMac! I think if you walked up to a Dubai Real Estate agent he would also say 6-8%!

I actually believe both views are important as they tackle 2 very different view points.

1) I have bought and invested: What is my real NET ROI? When will I have a 'free' asset?
2) I want to buy and invest: Which building/appartment will give best Median GROSS ROI as a forecast i.e. not real?

I think there is a 3rd case where: I have bought off-plan and my property is about to be handed over: What should I rent my appartment for in the first year? Should I follow the financial herd or wait until I realise my forecasted Gross ROI target?

I have now brought that type of 'what-if' thinking into my formulas! So thanks!:cheers:


----------



## True Blue

ROI's are relatively high just now as the marina is in a rental market phase of the property cycle. People could get burned if they don't heed that fact. Eventually we will return to an ownership phase and spot ROI's will drop drastically to around 4%. Prices and values will be buoyed by the emotions of the buyers looking for the cute apartments in the nice developments with the best views. That is when the capital gains will take over and investors will look for potential for growth not ROI's.

In summary, if you invested in a particular supertall right now due to the attractive current on the spot ROI, you could live to regret it. 

Choose wisely


----------



## FWIW

I was in two minds about posting this; but what the heck!

Using Dubizzle as a crude yard stick (for lowest advertised offer) here are some of my findings! 

1 bed in Torch
Current Buy Price: 700,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...ds=torch&is_basic_search_widget=0&price__lte=

Current Rent Price: 65,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*Gross ROI: 9.29%*


2 bed in torch
Current Buy Price: 940,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...ds=torch&is_basic_search_widget=0&price__lte=

Current Rent Price: 85,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...ds=torch&is_basic_search_widget=0&price__lte=

*Gross ROI: 9.04%*

3 bed in torch
Current Buy Price: 1,800,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

Current Rent Price: 130,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...ds=torch&is_basic_search_widget=0&price__lte=

*Gross ROI: 7.22%* 


There you have it - 1 bedders best Gross ROI, then 2 bedders Gross ROI, then 3 bedders Gross ROI, and I am sure as the units get bigger (penthouse) the GROSS ROI will go down i.e. longer to pay for itself.


----------



## Josau

True Blue said:


> ^^I went on Dubizzle recently and the home page included 2 deals in the marina that made my eyes pop out. A 3 bed in JBR 2000ft for 1.4M and a 4 bed in Horizon tower for 1.8M. The market for the larger apartments in the marina seems to be under pressure. Plenty of penthouses for sale also.


^^As was said before, the Marina is not a family environment, it is a place for singles, couples and maybe couples with a small child. This is why the big flats are hard to rent out and consequently to sell. Lots of 4 beds are being shared by room mates.
As for studios: My agent has a waiting list of customers looking for smart furnished studios on short- and mid term basis in the Marina. To live alone in a studio is the next step up from sharing a 4 bed.


----------



## AppleMac

FWIW said:


> Thanks AppleMac! I think if you walked up to a Dubai Real Estate agent he would also say 6-8%!
> 
> I actually believe both views are important as they tackle 2 very different view points.
> 
> 1) I have bought and invested: What is my real NET ROI? When will I have a 'free' asset?
> 2) I want to buy and invest: Which building/appartment will give best Median GROSS ROI as a forecast i.e. not real?


Yes, I can see how your real NET ROI may be important to you the individual - but for general investment guidance it makes no difference at all.

The best NET return in Dubai would be on an unmodernised villa in Jumeirah that you bought 30 years ago - of course it is of great importance to the individual but of absolutely no relevance to anyone else - that is why advertising (or bragging?) ROI on OP prices is pointless.


----------



## FWIW

AppleMac said:


> Yes, I can see how your real NET ROI may be important to you the individual - but for general investment guidance it makes no difference at all.
> 
> The best NET return in Dubai would be on an unmodernised villa in Jumeirah that you bought 30 years ago - of course it is of great importance to the individual but of absolutely no relevance to anyone else - that is why advertising (or bragging?) ROI on OP prices is pointless.


I still think it is important as you need to gauge how well you forecast vs actuals and keep refining the process using both views.

The gross dubizzle ROIs show that select steve is in the right ballpark with 9% gross ROI for his 2 bedder. I think that was the point of his question!

Also shows that cash is king in this environment - much better than waiting for an off plan to complete - let others take the stress and just come and mop up when values are distressed! Hindsight is 20-20; our windscreens are a little foggy! I think I will never buy an offplan ever again - too much risk, too many unknowns.


----------



## iced

ROI is based on actual price/cost paid. Thus the ROI will be different even for 2 investors who have purchased in the same development. 

Falling rents along with service charge increases will be the main reason for ROI to fall. 

On projected ROI's places like International City will be the best where they will offer the best return on your capital gross and net. Studios will offer better returns from an investment perspective. Marina Diamonds also offer high ROI as well.

Although UK base rates are 0.5% most mortgage holders are paying around 4-5%. Some have chosen to pay the interest only and pay capital at a later date.

Also higher ROI may indicate higher risk. For example the Torch maybe percieved to be higher risk hence it would require a higher projected ROI to become an investment possibility.

Given that 6-9% projected ROI for Dubai property is feasible and you can around 2-3% bank interest in the UAE, is it worth the risk? Most likely not as it is only projected and most likely if prices continue to decline then it maybe possible to get a higher projected ROI by delaying the investment. However for people who bought early and are receiving returns, they are real ROI and not some hypothetical scenario.


----------



## True Blue

AppleMac said:


> Yes, I can see how your real NET ROI may be important to you the individual - but for general investment guidance it makes no difference at all.
> 
> The best NET return in Dubai would be on an unmodernised villa in Jumeirah that you bought 30 years ago - of course it is of great importance to the individual but of absolutely no relevance to anyone else - that is why advertising (*or bragging?*) ROI on OP prices is pointless.


^^Gave me a laugh! :lol:

It's not pointless. The relevance is that The Torch and The Jewels were *sold in the same year*. So it is a like for like comparison to directly compare the actual ROI and time to recoup the investment. Apples with apples.

For many years on this forum it was debated which location and type of investment was the best (supertall very high views versus low rise waterfront views). As there was no data for many years, just opinions, I had to put up with people resorting to insults and labels like "arse end" (which you were also party to). Now there is very real data out there and it indicates that I was right, from an investment point of view. Call it bragging if you want, but the facts are real now and continue to swing towards my decisions as being the sound ones. The alleged bragging is not the problem as far as I'm concerned, it's the "not being man enought to admit they were wrong."

Interesting to note that most of the people who argued against me for years eventually sold out of their tallest block buildings before they were handed over, or they just disappeared. Only one left seems to be Steve and he is still busting my nuts :laugh:kay:

I still enjoy the debates as you will never see every angle unless you know someone with a different line of sight.:cheers:


----------



## FWIW

Not so fast TB!

Just to be fair - I repeated the exercise for Jewels 2 bed!

Current Buy Price: 1,800,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

Current Rent Price: 130,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*Gross ROI: 7.22%*

As I am not invested in either Torch or Jewels - I will give an impartial view; at this moment in time the Gross ROI from Torch 2 bed (9.04%) is greater than Gross ROI from Jewels 2 bed (7.22%).

From a straight spreadsheet view Torch is better Gross ROI; however, this does not take into account transport links, views, layout, etc, etc, etc. Also TB with his Jewels was earning its upkeep whilst Torch was still topping out.

This little exercise also shows that HT's strategy of reducing the price of a 3 bed to the price of 2 bed has happened - just not in the same building! :lol:


----------



## I Know

More dosh on its way out, like every investment, you need to be happy with it from the outset, a few percent here and there dont really matter if you have a decent portfolio in a Jurisdiction with established laws and regulations to protect investors. Now thats priceless even with less ROI in my op.

Ex-Dragon targets Gulf investors with real estate fund 

“We have identified an investment opportunity in the student housing market. Well respected universities are still getting more applications than they can cater for so the demand side is very high but most universities are not able to meet the demand in terms of accommodation,” he said.

“You have predictability of income.”

In ‘Dragons’ Den’, Caan was one of panel of entrepreneurs courted by start-up firms in a bid to secure their investment in return for an equity share.

Caan, who invested $1.5m in 14 companies while on the show, said Dubai remained the leading destination for investment among the six Gulf states.

“If I was being pitched in Dragon’s Den by Abu Dhabi, by Qatar, by Dubai – which one would I back? [Dubai] has the least and has made the most out of it,” he said.

“Look at the region, Dubai probably has the least natural resources so it doesn’t have an option. Its drive and determination is much greater than somewhere like Qatar.”
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/ex-dragon-targets-gulf-investors-with-real-estate-fund-431692.html


----------



## True Blue

FWIW said:


> Not so fast TB!
> 
> Just to be fair - I repeated the exercise for Jewels 2 bed!
> 
> Current Buy Price: 1,800,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=
> 
> Current Rent Price: 130,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=
> 
> *Gross ROI: 7.22%*
> 
> As I am not invested in either Torch or Jewels - I will give an impartial view; at this moment in time the Gross ROI from Torch 2 bed (9.04%) is greater than Gross ROI from Jewels 2 bed (7.22%).
> 
> From a straight spreadsheet view Torch is better Gross ROI; however, this does not take into account transport links, views, layout, etc, etc, etc. Also TB with his Jewels was earning its upkeep whilst Torch was still topping out. (breaking ground you mean :lol: I've had 3 years income now and 1 year personal use)
> 
> This little exercise also shows that HT's strategy of reducing the price of a 3 bed to the price of 2 bed has happened - just not in the same building! :lol:


It would almost be relevant if;


I owned a 2 bed in The Jewels.
I bought a 2 bed in The Jewels as a pure investment descision. I would like one but not to rent out, just for personal use and capital appreciation.

I'm actually surprised it was as high as 7%. Jewels 2 and 3 bed units are massive so not suited as buy to lets. Anyone who knows the buy to let market knows that you don't make anything on the large top end units. You could however do a spot exercise on a Jewels 1 bed(which I own) and get a higher ROI. I saw a 1 bed for sale around 850k and they advertise them for rent at 80-85k. OP for the Jewels 1 beds were 700k so still no negative equity

FWIW, you are well named  but please re read my last post especially the bit I bolded. That Jewels 2 bed on the back of the building would have had an OP of 1.4M and would be sold at the same time as the Torch 2 beds. Using the OP the ROI becomes comparible with TT returns and TJ stands a better chance for long term capital growth IMO. 


Some other facts about The Jewels if considering it as an investment purchase;

Jewels landlords have had 3.5 years income prior to Torch handing over.
A Jewels 2 bed used to rent for 250k in 2008, a staggering 20% ROI. 
Jewels Landlords will have recouped about 60% of their purchase price to date.
The Jewels location can only improve as the land opposite has still to be landscaped, whereas other towers in the marina have undeveloped land nearby which carries investment risk.


----------



## MarkWass

TB

Don't get me wrong, you evidently appreciate some of the very basic issues and fundamental text book factors that may indicate worthy potential of property investment. In a regulated market. I accept that.*

I would imagine that you may have a property portfolio is somewhat substantial in a number of sectors and locations. However in the case of Dubai, I think you have been lucky. I think you fail to realise that growth in this marketplace will remain hindered until fair governance is established...

In terms of the past, and the current, some of your points are valid. But in terms of the future, supply v demand type rationale is all very well, but what will happen to this market, when the supply expands exponentially? With very little justice, consumer protection etc etc, what will encourage the much needed future investment to invest in Dubai?

Without the benefit of a fair and safe investment arena, you and a few others, may like to think you were very smart for 'being in the right place at the right time', BUT, unless the govt start to cut the bs press releases and actually start to govern, although your investments seem to be doing OK at the moment, with increased future supply and general disregard for the laws (and enforcement of), my concern is that if you are in it for the 'long term' as you say, how long do you honestly estimate your luck to continue (in terms of Capital Value and ROI)?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

johnnyinspain said:


> Current value is irrelevant. Return on investment, which is the only figure any businessman is interested in is the ONLY figure that is relevant.
> 
> So, take a 2 bed in BC, look at what you ORIGINALLY paid for it, and cascade the figures downwards.
> 
> I agree with TB, the "kerb appeal" at BC is going to be pretty low until at least the tram-works are finished.
> 
> Do a 5 year calculation from now and see how bad your return will look! :bash:
> 
> Its not all bad news however, at least you will have a product in the end, which is more than a lot of people will get. And if you are prepared to chuck some cash at it to sort out the dreadful quality, you may get a reasonable return once the road-works out front have gone and the tram is running... Circa 2014/15.


^^ Yes you are correct but not thinking about my own ROI here (as I know I made a mistake buying an off-plan in a supertall which was never going to be ready in time in hindsight - just wanted in in Dubai during the gold rush and the LPP was an easy finance method at the time). As we were talking about investment (in the investment thread) was thinking about what a new investor would see if thinking to buy now that units are ready etc. and has cash ready and looking for returns without any emotional attachments. It seems the torch is undervalued at present (due to units on the market and some risk) compared to the rents achieved for it (eg. 100k for a 1m to 1.1m 2 bed marina view layout), whereas similar sized small 2 beds in Silverene are slightly over valued due to excitement due to quality and reputation etc. as seen by the lower ratio of rent achieved compared to current average sale price.

Am I right in this logic at all, just wondering what others thought?


----------



## AppleMac

......


----------



## Imre

FWIW said:


> I was in two minds about posting this; but what the heck!
> 
> Using Dubizzle as a crude yard stick (for lowest advertised offer) here are some of my findings!
> 
> 
> 3 bed in torch
> Current Buy Price: 1,800,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=
> 
> Current Rent Price: 130,000 - http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...ds=torch&is_basic_search_widget=0&price__lte=
> 
> *Gross ROI: 7.22%*
> 
> 
> There you have it - 1 bedders best Gross ROI, then 2 bedders Gross ROI, then 3 bedders Gross ROI, and I am sure as the units get bigger (penthouse) the GROSS ROI will go down i.e. longer to pay for itself.


Torch 3 BR is not really 3 BR , size is only 1800 sqft (or even less) and it has only 2 bathrooms , so I would rather call 2 BR+ study,another problem it has only 1 car parking..thats why the lower rent.


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> I'm actually surprised it was as high as 7%. Jewels 2 and 3 bed units are massive so not suited as buy to lets. Anyone who knows the buy to let market knows that you don't make anything on the large top end units.


These units good for end users only, same as Emirates Crown , it has massive 2 and 3 beds , as the service charge increasing rental yield going down every year.


----------



## Imre

Josau said:


> ^^As was said before, the Marina is not a family environment, it is a place for singles, couples and maybe couples with a small child. This is why the big flats are hard to rent out and consequently to sell. Lots of 4 beds are being shared by room mates.
> As for studios: My agent has a waiting list of customers looking for smart furnished studios on short- and mid term basis in the Marina. To live alone in a studio is the next step up from sharing a 4 bed.


Simply,just checked Dubai Marina from dubizzle

*Studios 395 ads *

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*1 BR 2273 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*2 BR 2109 ads *

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*3 BR 1083 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*4 BR and 4 BR + 364 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

These numbers should devide by 10 ( or even more) as most of units listed with many agents or just duplicated.. :lol: :lol:


----------



## Imre

Same in JLT

*Studios 269 ads *

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*1 BR 854 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*2 BR 547 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*3 BR 148 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*4 Br and 4 BR + 7 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=


----------



## Imre

*FOR SALE DUBAI MARINA*

*Studio 204 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*1 BR 1477 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*2 BR 1665 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*3 BR 1308 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*4 BR and 4 BR + 602 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*FOR SALE , JLT*

*Studio 149 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*1 BR 479 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*2 BR 346 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*3 BR 157 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=

*4 BR and 4 BR+ 65 ads*

http://dubai.dubizzle.com/property-...c_search_widget=0&price__lte=&bathrooms__gte=


----------



## johnnyinspain

I understand your comments Steve.

Whilst everything here is speculation, my view as you may have read, is that the rental market in Dubai is maturing and fragmenting. Tenants are becoming wiser to issues such as vehicle access and proximity to Marina Mall/Metro/walk to the beach..... In my opinion, if you hold "the best" in terms of rental stock, whatever happens in the market, you will do ok in terms of returns.

Now, in my opinion, the definition of "the best" in Dubai is the centre section of the marina, Marina Mall side, between the original 6 towers and Waves. This will in the longer term, (even now actually) be the area that will become "prime" in terms of rental demand and returns. You can see this now, just look at the returns the EMAAR Al Majara development achieves.

I think the Supertall area will become something of a nightmare in the long term, rather like JBR has, with rental returns diminishing, and some apartments becoming un-rentable at any price. Access will become difficult and traffic a nightmare.

However, the "Prime Marina Area" will always have a very limited number of *high quality* apartments with stunning views, and I think places like Al Majara, Silverene, the 6 original EMAAR Towers, Waves front tower, will always be sought after. Therefore these towers even at a higher price now, represent a very sensible business investment, even in the current market.



Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Yes you are correct but not thinking about my own ROI here (as I know I made a mistake buying an off-plan in a supertall which was never going to be ready in time in hindsight - just wanted in in Dubai during the gold rush and the LPP was an easy finance method at the time). As we were talking about investment (in the investment thread) was thinking about what a new investor would see if thinking to buy now that units are ready etc. and has cash ready and looking for returns without any emotional attachments. It seems the torch is undervalued at present (due to units on the market and some risk) compared to the rents achieved for it (eg. 100k for a 1m to 1.1m 2 bed marina view layout), whereas similar sized small 2 beds in Silverene are slightly over valued due to excitement due to quality and reputation etc. as seen by the lower ratio of rent achieved compared to current average sale price.
> 
> Am I right in this logic at all, just wondering what others thought?


----------



## FWIW

Imre said:


> Torch 3 BR is not really 3 BR , size is only 1800 sqft (or even less) and it has only 2 bathrooms , so I would rather call 2 BR+ study,another problem it has only 1 car parking..thats why the lower rent.


Thanks Imre - this is why I hate dubizzle - just like eBay for properties - actually if they implemented agent feedback ratings it might improve the quality of listings!


----------



## drmadar

Hi Everyone.I have recently joined the forum.I have invested in Dubai star since 2006.I went to see the site yesterday.The 30th floor slab was in progress ,though there were scanty workers.I was given the information that the present contractors have the contract to build upto the 30th floor and then money will be collected.If investors dont not pay up then no furhter construction is going to take place.However if the instalments are paid up the new contract will be signed,but for how many floors,that I was not told.In short the building will rise up as we pay.I was also informed that RERA is dealing with the project now and ACI has no controll over the money that we will pay.It will go into escro account and the builder will be paid out of that by RERA.
Those of us who have paid up more than 60% have no choice but to apy and all we can do is to hope for the best.


----------



## True Blue

FWIW said:


> Thanks Imre - this is why I hate dubizzle - just like eBay for properties - actually if they implemented agent feedback ratings it might improve the quality of listings!


As I found out yesterday, agents are abusing Dubizzle. I posted an ad for a Torch 2 bed which the agent had missrepresented as 2 bed unit of 2000ft and with the kitchens and bathrooms fitted out like the penthouse apartments. They are just wasting peoples time so they can gather info on who is looking to buy, then they can pester you to death everytime they get something else to sell.

OR! As Imre posted the 3 beds in Torch are better described as 2 bed as they only have 2 bathrooms and a spare room and 1 parking. :dunno: It all boils down to the fact that the standards are poor in real estate advertising.


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> These units good for end users only, same as Emirates Crown , it has massive 2 and 3 beds , as the service charge increasing rental yield going down every year.


Thanks for supporting me on that point. This talk of ROI is silly when the intention of the buyer is to live in it. A decent 3 bed in Jewels would cost 4 Mil and would only rent for 200k. They are just not suited as buy to lets. People who bought in the Jewels generally live in them unless you are down to your last million, like me, and need the cash :lol:

If you only want to buy to let then go for Silverene, Torch etc but be warned that the secret to equity investing is not knowing when to buy, it's knowing when to sell.


----------



## FWIW

True Blue said:


> Thanks for supporting me on that point. This talk of ROI is silly when the intention of the buyer is to live in it. A decent 3 bed in Jewels would cost 4 Mil and would only rent for 200k. They are just not suited as buy to lets. People who bought in the Jewels generally live in them unless you are down to your last million, like me, and need the cash :lol:
> 
> If you only want to buy to let then go for Silverene, Torch etc but be warned that the secret to equity investing is not knowing when to buy, it's knowing when to sell.


TB - If you intend to live in a property then why even talk about ROI? It's your home, and who else cares about how you personally feel about your home. I don't think there is a ROH comparison method!!

This is the same with equity investments - you are buying shares/home for capital appreciation - nothing wrong with that - but not really investment in my view as you can only really be in one place at one time. This is point I think PropertyMagnet was trying to make about short term lets, but again I think it was lost on you.

You also seem to be unable to grasp the difference between GROSS and NET in some of your responses i.e. the size of appartments has nothing to do with the gross ROI calc. it does however affect the NET calc (for which I would rather use actuals).

I have been providing Gross ROI examples in response to AppleMac's question of how to compare building vs building on a theoretical level. 

Surely, you can see the benefit of the exercise if a new investor has a pot of cash and wants to move it away from bank account to a property that earns rental income? The gross ROI is just one available method to help this decision process.

Peace out.


----------



## True Blue

FWIW said:


> TB - If you intend to live in a property then why even talk about ROI? It's your home, and who else cares about how you personally feel about your home. I don't think there is a ROH comparison method!!
> 
> This is the same with equity investments - you are buying shares/home for capital appreciation - nothing wrong with that - but not really investment in my view as you can only really be in one place at one time. This is point I think PropertyMagnet was trying to make about short term lets, but again I think it was lost on you.
> 
> You also seem to be unable to grasp the difference between GROSS and NET in some of your responses i.e. the size of appartments has nothing to do with the gross ROI calc. it does however affect the NET calc (for which I would rather use actuals).
> 
> I have been providing Gross ROI examples in response to AppleMac's question of how to compare building vs building on a theoretical level.
> 
> Surely, you can see the benefit of the exercise if a new investor has a pot of cash and wants to move it away from bank account to a property that earns rental income? The gross ROI is just one available method to help this decision process.
> 
> Peace out.


Agreed, kinda drifted off course this debate. I didn't raise the subject of ROI, but contributed my tuppence worth to show how clever I've been with my predictions from many years ago. Or as MW would say, lucky 

To counteract the "lucky" claim, I dug up an old bet between me and High Times about my prediction that being in the Tallest block will not be a USP and rents will not be any higher than similar quality buildings inside the marina, infact they are likely to be lower. I proved I was right, and we are where we are now kay: 

Everything else is just interference.

I'm at peace with myself now.....................and relax. :lol:


----------



## Ruslan Isin

I'll pay, but it's just my choice. Guys, decide each on their own, really difficult choice.


----------



## MarkWass

TB, to clarify: when I say 'lucky', I was not referring to any specific investment decisions you may have made, but the timing of it. I mean before the bad developers behaviour got worse, and seeing how easy it was to get away with it, even the good developers became bad ones.

I have seen the recent posts on this thread, about ROI which seem to be based on *the past *and* the present*. Given that (1) the large volume of resi development in the pipeline (2) now that most developers have now converted to *the dark side*, I was wondering about the future…


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Rents appear to be on an upward trend and sale prices appear to be stable or slightly decreasing rather than increasing.

+yield / -growth

Where we at now? 9 o'clock? time to buy soon?


----------



## I Know

Ranches townhouse on auction at Dh1.5m, does anyone have any info on the price acheived on this? Sounds pretty cheap 

A townhouse in Arabian Ranches will go under the hammer at the Dubai Land Department today with the reserve auction price set at Dh1.5 million.

The prices of similar properties in Arabian Ranches are close to Dh1.8 million, according to agents.

A similar townhouse on propertyfinder.ae has a listing of Dh1.88 million.

Each bidder has to pay 20 per cent of the initial price of the auctioned property by cheque to the official at DLD's Tasarufat department. Cheques will be returned to unsuccessful bidder

The question dealers and agents are asking is - will it get sold?

“The price is merely 20 per cent lower than the average listing prices of similar townhouses. Moreover, you are not allowed to inspect or check the property… you just buy it,” said an property expert, requesting anonymity.

“I believe the property might have been foreclosed some years back since it takes a lot of time for them (banks) to get the permission to auction these properties. Buyers are smart now. They want to check the property before taking any decision. In this case, the price discount might not be 'too' much for the buyer who may have to spend on undertaking repairs on the property,” he added.

The property auctioned covers a total area of 3278 square feet and is a Type 3 townhouse in Al Reem 3.

In May, Barclays Plc, which had won the first foreclosure order in Dubai in 2010, managed to sell a villa in the Springs community at a public auction for Dh1.22 million. The reserve price was Dh1.2 million.
http://www.emirates247.com/property/ranches-townhouse-on-auction-at-dh1-5m-2011-11-23-1.429747


----------



## FWIW

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Rents appear to be on an upward trend and sale prices appear to be stable or slightly decreasing rather than increasing.
> 
> +yield / -growth
> 
> Where we at now? 9 o'clock? time to buy soon?


Select Steve - please don't post shite from Ajay Ahuja again! Especially in a Dubai forum! The guy hates Dubai calling it a white elephant and also was investigated by our BBC! See more here: http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/ajay-ahuja-on-inside-out-london-property-scam/

Anything from Rich Dad series would be good - I do believe in his definition of what an asset and liability is with his cash-flow quadrant, etc.


----------



## Mistermark

There has been a lot of talk here recently about ROI (return on investment). But most of it has talked solely about rental income. If the capital value of the property increases during the period in question, this can be added to the net rental income in calculating your ROI. However, if the capital value has decreased (which I suspect is the case for most Dubai properties over the past 12 months), the reduction should be applied to your net rental income when calculating ROI. 

Working this way, in many cases properties in Dubai generated negative ROIs over the past year - i.e. the actual, achievable sale price dropped by perhaps 10 percent, whereas the net rental income was closer to 7 percent.


----------



## Ahmed N

Ruslan Isin said:


> I'll pay, but it's just my choice. Guys, decide each on their own, really difficult choice.



I have also paid 80% of the money. I was also told that ACI no longer will be dealing with the money side of things. it will be interesting to see who sends out the money request for payments - RERA or ACI.

I think we have no alternative but to make our payment - and as a result construction should start and we will see progress.

It looks as thought the construction has stopped again, and that is beacause they have reached 30th floor. 

Payments from investors will mean the project will start again - if not then............no building.


----------



## MarkWass

^^ Yes Mark, correct. Though assume they meant pure rental return, rather than pure ROI, which, as you say is all encompassing...


----------



## gerald.d

Mistermark said:


> There has been a lot of talk here recently about ROI (return on investment). But most of it has talked solely about rental income. If the capital value of the property increases during the period in question, this can be added to the net rental income in calculating your ROI. However, if the capital value has decreased (which I suspect is the case for most Dubai properties over the past 12 months), the reduction should be applied to your net rental income when calculating ROI.
> 
> Working this way, in many cases properties in Dubai generated negative ROIs over the past year - i.e. the actual, achievable sale price dropped by perhaps 10 percent, whereas the net rental income was closer to 7 percent.


No.

That simply is not how ROI is calculated. ROI is exactly what it says on the tin. It is the financial return that you get for a particular investment in an asset.

You cannot include any asset value increase in your ROI calculation unless you actually realize that value by _disposing_ of the asset. Any speculated current value of your asset is utterly meaningless to any ROI calculation, unless you are able to take advantage of the value of the asset by using it as some kind of financial instrument.


----------



## Mistermark

gerald.d said:


> No.
> 
> That simply is not how ROI is calculated. ROI is exactly what it says on the tin. It is the financial return that you get for a particular investment in an asset.
> 
> You cannot include any asset value increase in your ROI calculation unless you actually realize that value by _disposing_ of the asset. Any speculated current value of your asset is utterly meaningless to any ROI calculation, unless you are able to take advantage of the value of the asset by using it as some kind of financial instrument.


Sorry but you are not correct. Take a look at the annual reports of Real Estate Investment Trusts and you will see they re-value their properties based on market conditions each year. If you simply look at rental returns and ignore the fact that your property is losing value each year, you could be lulled into a false sense of security.


----------



## FWIW

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Rents appear to be on an upward trend and sale prices appear to be stable or slightly decreasing rather than increasing.
> 
> +yield / -growth
> 
> Where we at now? 9 o'clock? time to buy soon?


Can't be at 9 o'clock btw because I have not noticed any interest rises???

Also just to make it clear to everyone:
Gross Yield is gross annual rent divided by investment cost x 100

Eg GY = 100,000 / 1,000,000 = 1/10 = 0.1 x 100 = 10% 

Your ROI would be 10 years. Then you sell it and realize the capital gains, etc. Even if the property fell to 900,000 AED in 11 years - you still make money and assumes rents are stable!

You start with gross yield to rank your potential investments, then you use net yield or other ROI calcs as you like to ensure your investment is performing well. High service charges, upgraded furniture, paint, wallpaper, wooden floors, expensive tv, etc, etc should be captured to ensure you are not wasting money by eroding your net yields.

I can recommend this page as a starter for 10: http://financialedge.investopedia.c...g-A-Real-Estate-Investment.aspx#axzz1ekWIHmlV

Bit USA focussed but should be useful - investopedia is very good btw.


----------



## MarkWass

gerald.d said:


> No.
> 
> That simply is not how ROI is calculated. ROI is exactly what it says on the tin. It is the financial return that you get for a particular investment in an asset.
> 
> You cannot include any asset value increase in your ROI calculation unless you actually realize that value by _disposing_ of the asset. Any speculated current value of your asset is utterly meaningless to any ROI calculation, unless you are able to take advantage of the value of the asset by using it as some kind of financial instrument.


The capital growth (or indeed loss) part of ROI can only be 100% verified if it is actually realised (disposed). However it certainly IS possible to estimate that component of a (theoretical) ROI if there is some demand for that particular asset and enough comparable evidence available to give an estimation as to what it could realistically achieve which could suggest an open market valuation, for the purposes of estimating potential ROI, at any moment in time.

I think the ones who started talking about ROI on this thread, may be slightly confused as to it's correct definition, but I assumed they actually and basically meant 'net profit that is currently been generated from rental income'.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

This is interesting TB:

3 beds in the Torch in the tallest block are listed for more than the equivalent 3 bed in Dorra Bay in the **** end.

3 bed [upgraded] in the Torch - price *AED 2,055,096* Sq.Ft.1,752
http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-marina-352668.html

3 bed [standard fit] in the Torch - *AED 1,950,000* Sq.Ft. 1,744
http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-marina-349674.html

3 bed [standard fit] in the Torch - *AED1,970,000* Sq.Ft.1,744
http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-marina-344957.html

3 bed in Dorra Bay - *AED 1,561,623* Sq.Ft. 1,854
http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-marina-98668.html


----------



## Imre

It seems the Dorra Bay sea facing side prices going down because of the bridge, traffic and Jumeirah Towers.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> This is interesting TB:
> 
> 3 beds in the Torch in the tallest block are listed for more than the equivalent 3 bed in Dorra Bay in the **** end.
> 
> 3 bed [upgraded] in the Torch - price *AED 2,055,096* Sq.Ft.1,752
> http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-marina-352668.html
> 
> 3 bed [standard fit] in the Torch - *AED 1,950,000* Sq.Ft. 1,744
> http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-marina-349674.html
> 
> 3 bed [standard fit] in the Torch - *AED1,970,000* Sq.Ft.1,744
> http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-marina-344957.html
> 
> 3 bed in Dorra Bay - *AED 1,561,623* Sq.Ft. 1,854
> http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-marina-98668.html





Imre said:


> It seems the Dorra Bay sea facing side prices going down because of the bridge, traffic and Jumeirah Towers.


What's interesting about it Steve?

As Imre has pointed out, and myself a few times, the values are being seriously affected by the Jumeirah Towers blocking the views and the complete disruption caused by the construction noise and dust. You obviously don't pay any attention to any point I make outwith The torch! All the Dorra 3 beds are on the sea facing side and were sold for a premium as a result(BTW many were sold to Cayan employees and business partners) The marina facing side is all 2 beds above the 4th floor. The 2 beds are in short supply now for both rentals and sales but you can choose from dozens of 3 beds available for sale or rent. Go figure Einstein! 

This demonstrates what will happen to The Torch marina facing units once construction starts on the empty plots around it. Might be 10 years from now but when it happens it will have a devastating effect on the values and rentability of the affected units.

BTW, those Dorrabay 3 beds OP would be around 725AED/ft in January 2006 so probably owner taking his profit and 3 years rent of approx 500k. Torch versus Dorrabay, you do the math!


----------



## True Blue

Mistermark said:


> Sorry but you are not correct. Take a look at the annual reports of Real Estate Investment Trusts and you will see they re-value their properties based on market conditions each year. If you simply look at rental returns and ignore the fact that your property is losing value each year, you could be lulled into a false sense of security.


We haven't used the term "yield" yet, is that possibly a better term than "return".

Annual book values are an important consideration to corporate investors but private individuals don't really concern themselves with perceived market values until they decide to sell. At that time, any loss or gain would be spread over the life of the investment to evaluate its performance. 

If I was to take an annual approach then I could be falsely thinking my investment was performing badly and making year on year losses since 2008. However, over the term it is performing tremendously with combined rental income and capital gain to date averaging more than 20% per annum. Why would I want to dispose of that free money generator???


----------



## speculator

Guys several variations for ROI exist. What you are all arguing about is the very basic accounting rate of return. Whatever you use the variables are always going to be assumptions and the variance of those variables obviously becomes dispersed from the mean over a longer term. Since we don't have any long term data for the UAE property market it's all going to be guesswork and predictions. Using standard deviation from short term data is not appropriate for longer term ROI. We are only guessing considering the dynamics of a frontier economy.


----------



## Mistermark

True Blue said:


> We haven't used the term "yield" yet, is that possibly a better term than "return".
> 
> Annual book values are an important consideration to corporate investors but private individuals don't really concern themselves with perceived market values until they decide to sell. At that time, any loss or gain would be spread over the life of the investment to evaluate its performance.
> 
> If I was to take an annual approach then I could be falsely thinking my investment was performing badly and making year on year losses since 2008. However, over the term it is performing tremendously with combined rental income and capital gain to date averaging more than 20% per annum. Why would I want to dispose of that free money generator???


Yes. Rental income as a percentage of market price (rather than purchase price) is the gross yield. Deduct service charges and probably also letting agent fees and some allowance for wear and tear and you have the net yield. ROI is the yield plus or minus changes in capital value.

Someone who bought completed property in Dubai in say 2007 and retained their property until today would almost certainly have achieved a worthwhile yield but a negative ROI. Looking at the forecast yield in 2008 would have encouraged him to sell, whereas a projection of ROI would have favoured disposal. You pays your money and you takes your choice.


----------



## johnnyinspain

No it isn't!!!!

Your investment is what you paid for it, not what its worth at any given point in time!!!

Hence, return on investment!!!

:bash:




Mistermark said:


> Yes. Rental income as a percentage of market price (rather than purchase price) is the gross yield. Deduct service charges and probably also letting agent fees and some allowance for wear and tear and you have the net yield. ROI is the yield plus or minus changes in capital value.
> 
> Someone who bought completed property in Dubai in say 2007 and retained their property until today would almost certainly have achieved a worthwhile yield but a negative ROI. Looking at the forecast yield in 2008 would have encouraged him to sell, whereas a projection of ROI would have favoured disposal. You pays your money and you takes your choice.


----------



## MarkWass

For those who are unaware of the definitions of various investment terminology, whether because they missed a few economic classes at school or uni, or have forgotten or whatever: like anything these days a few minutes on google can provide some answers...

Anyway, let's assume that:
(a) By 'ROI', they (the posters) were actually referring to: Net rental income (after ALL deductions apart from mortgage interest / borrowings)
(b) By 'Capital Value/appreciation/growth' the posters meant an rough / ball park estimation of the realistically achievable sales value / growth.

Let's not get too worked up on terminology, as a bit of a red herring.

Anyway:



MarkWass said:


> seem to be based on *the past *and* the present*. Given that *(1)* the large volume of resi development in the pipeline *(2)* now that most developers have now converted to *the dark side*, I was wondering about the *future*…


_The future?_ The effect on *future* values of sales, rentals, ROI, even yield etc on existing stock by the above 2 points (1) and (2)?


----------



## W40arx

I personally think that we should all be fulfilling our end of the bargain otherwise we will all suffer, so if anyone has it in mind not to keep up payments they will be jeopardising the money that they have invested to date and also the money invested by others! 

We have protection in place as we are depositing monies into the National Bank of Abu Dhabi's ESCROW account....they have the control (along with RERA) and they will not be running away with anyone's money, they can't shut-up-shop overnight, they are too big of an organisation to do that.

We need to adhere to our contracts for the best chance of a return of product.

Regards

Waqar


----------



## MarkWass

Mistermark said:


> Looking at the forecast yield in 2008 would have encouraged him to *sell*, whereas a projection of ROI would have favoured *disposal*. You pays your money and you takes your choice.


:? Sell / Disposal are the same


----------



## FWIW

Just to put things into perspective, have a read of this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ts-in-euro-collapse-Foreign-Office-warns.html

Just goes to show nobody knows what will happen in the future. Forget trying to work out future net yields. Best we all prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Peace out!


----------



## True Blue

^^It has been stated as being inevitable for some time now. I think there was hope that Russia would step in and bail out the Euro. Might work short term, but the fact remains that the PIIGS continue to run massive deficits and are unable to control their situations. 

Makes me sick after reading that, when we consider the massive public sector strike scheduled for this week in the UK. Just shows how the public sector workers are greedy self centred, self preserving bast herds! They still do not understand that they are paid from private sector taxation. Yet the vast majority of the private sector workers can only dream of the pensions and early retirement deals that the public sector insist on receiving.:bash:


----------



## AppleMac

FWIW said:


> Just to put things into perspective, have a read of this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ts-in-euro-collapse-Foreign-Office-warns.html


Not sure about riots if the Euro does collapse - more like dancing in the streets. If the Euro does *not* collapse and continues to drive the economies of Greece, Spain, Italy, etc down the toilet then be prepared for riots.


----------



## Pleth

AppleMac said:


> Not sure about riots if the Euro does collapse - more like dancing in the streets. If the Euro does *not* collapse and continues to drive the economies of Greece, Spain, Italy, etc down the toilet then be prepared for riots.


You are right.

Can it get any worse?
I am sure the strikes in UK will benefit the British economy :lol:


----------



## Imre

*Trakhees fixes ‘balcony barbecue’ fine at Dh500*

*Residents, including those of Palm Jumeirah and International City, to be warned before being fined*

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Sunday, November 27, 2011 

The fine for misusing your balcony or damaging the façade of the building in Trakhees-supervised residential communities will be Dh500 per offence.

In a statement emailed to Emirates 24|7, the authority said initially officers would be warning residents not to misuse their balconies, set up barbecues, or fix any satellite dishes, and those failing to follow the rules will be fined Dh500.

*Areas under Trakhees’ supervision, as per Degree No 22, includes, but not limited to Palm Jumeirah, Jumeirah Heights Jumeirah Village, Jumeirah Lakes Tower, Jebel Ali Downtown, International City, Discovery Gardens.*

Last week, this website reported that the Community Conformance Division (CCD), Department of Planning & Development of Trakhees has informed residents not to fix satellite dishes on the facades or balconies of their buildings; not to use balconies as places of storage for any purpose other than seasonal furniture pieces; not to hang sheets, clothes or curtains or rugs or mops or laundry on balconies or railings of homes and not to have barbecues in their balconies.

*J Sautter, a reader, commented: “I am all in for cleaning up facades and balconies from rubbish, storage, satellite dishes and cloths hanging over the railing. Dubai Marina should be included in this campaign. But drying clothes on a clothes' drying rack should be allowed. Think of the environment, people should not use electric dryers in a climate such as Dubai.”*

“Dubai cannot become a jungle of laundries and satellites and smoking barbecues. This is Dubai with its own set of rules and regulations that must be respected. I thank the authorities for maintaining the beauty of Dubai,” said another reader.

Trakhees said the aim of the campaign is to preserve the upscale appearance, which is characteristic of Dubai by reducing the “off-putting” appearances, which adversely impact the overall aesthetics of the emirate.

http://www.emirates247.com/crime/lo...ny-barbecue-fine-at-dh500-2011-11-27-1.430308


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> You are right.
> 
> Can it get any worse?
> I am sure the strikes in UK will benefit the British economy :lol:


I am watching George Osbourne and Ed Balls on the Andrew Mar show right now. Thank God Ed Balls isn't in charge, he can criticise all he likes but it is clear he is glad that it is not his problem to try and solve.

Anyway, there is some truth in your comments. I think if the strike goes ahead, Osbourne will retaliate and force a prolonged stand off. This will create massive savings in the public coffres with the reduced public sector wage bill. Most of the public sector workers are surplus to requirements anyway. Who do they think they are trying to dictate to the rest of the private sector? They forget they were once called civil *servants* for a reason.

As a pure true blue, I am glad Maggie Thatcher is alive today to be vindicated for resisting allowing Britain to be part of the unified european single currency. That is why she was eventually forced out as Hessletine and others wanted to join Europe and were fed up with her Lording over everyone with her strong views and opinions, even though she was a miss understood genius. Read the modern history of Britain and you will see that Britain was in the same financial mess as the PIIGS are now and Thatcherism saved Britain and rebuilt its economy, but only through very tough governance. Many of the current and future governments of these troubled European countries will be reading up on her tactics now to see how it needs to be done. Of course, one of her policies was in property ownership. If people owned their own homes and had a mortgage, then they will seek out work or generate their own income in order to pay their own way in life instead of living off the state for ever.


----------



## lovedubai

True Blue said:


> ^^It has been stated as being inevitable for some time now. I think there was hope that Russia would step in and bail out the Euro. Might work short term, but the fact remains that the PIIGS continue to run massive deficits and are unable to control their situations.
> 
> Makes me sick after reading that, when we consider the massive public sector strike scheduled for this week in the UK. Just shows how the public sector workers are greedy self centred, self preserving bast herds! They still do not understand that they are paid from private sector taxation. Yet the vast majority of the private sector workers can only dream of the pensions and early retirement deals that the public sector insist on receiving.:bash:


Not often I disagree with you, but what a load of bullshit! How the hell would all this amazing private sector work without education, health, armed forces, police, fire services,cleaning services, care of the vulnerable etc? The private sector creams off profits and has control of the media. Public sector pensions aren't marvellous - it's just that private sector pensions have been wiped out by the greed of banks and finance companies in recent years.


----------



## SGrCRAP

True Blue said:


> What's interesting about it Steve?
> 
> As Imre has pointed out, and myself a few times, the values are being seriously affected by the Jumeirah Towers blocking the views and the complete disruption caused by the construction noise and dust. You obviously don't pay any attention to any point I make outwith The torch! All the Dorra 3 beds are on the sea facing side and were sold for a premium as a result(BTW many were sold to Cayan employees and business partners) The marina facing side is all 2 beds above the 4th floor. The 2 beds are in short supply now for both rentals and sales but you can choose from dozens of 3 beds available for sale or rent. Go figure Einstein!
> 
> This demonstrates what will happen to The Torch marina facing units once construction starts on the empty plots around it. Might be 10 years from now but when it happens it will have a devastating effect on the values and rentability of the affected units.
> 
> BTW, those Dorrabay 3 beds OP would be around 725AED/ft in January 2006 so probably owner taking his profit and 3 years rent of approx 500k. Torch versus Dorrabay, you do the math!


TB,

There's no comparison bn the Torch and Dorrabay - you are right - DorraBay is actually quite a nice development - the sea facing units have been hijaked by all the construction work but the marina facing units are well located and have nice sized balconies - particularly on the lower floors from memory. There is zero risk of being built around at Dorra Bay. Units in the Torch will end up like 'community view' units in JBR. Dark, overlooked with small vistas of light. There's quite a bit of spare development land around the Torch and look what's happened everywhere else in the immediate vicinity - monster tall towers, built too close together. 

I suspect Torch resales will correct significantly especially when all the problems start to appear in the Torch due to Select Group's inability to project manage DCE. If I held Torch units I would be selling them as quickly as possible while the place is still inside DLP. After that it will probably go downhill fast.


----------



## arfie

I slightly disagree with your views here higher floor 04 and 03 units don't have marina views and face towards marina heights and jlt. Those units are still renting pretty well.

I agree what gets built on the plot in front will have an influence on the torch. However for a major project to take place the developer will need to sell off plan which is unlikelt for quite sometime. There are too many developers that can build a tower and sell on completion. From positive point of view when some residential tower gets built here it will be a sign that the market has recovered.





SGrCRAP said:


> TB,
> 
> There's no comparison bn the Torch and Dorrabay - you are right - DorraBay is actually quite a nice development - the sea facing units have been hijaked by all the construction work but the marina facing units are well located and have nice sized balconies - particularly on the lower floors from memory. There is zero risk of being built around at Dorra Bay. Units in the Torch will end up like 'community view' units in JBR. Dark, overlooked with small vistas of light. There's quite a bit of spare development land around the Torch and look what's happened everywhere else in the immediate vicinity - monster tall towers, built too close together.
> 
> I suspect Torch resales will correct significantly especially when all the problems start to appear in the Torch due to Select Group's inability to project manage DCE. If I held Torch units I would be selling them as quickly as possible while the place is still inside DLP. After that it will probably go downhill fast.


----------



## True Blue

lovedubai said:


> Not often I disagree with you, but what a load of bullshit! How the hell would all this amazing private sector work without education, health, armed forces, police, fire services,cleaning services, care of the vulnerable etc? The private sector creams off profits and has control of the media. Public sector pensions aren't marvellous - it's just that private sector pensions have been wiped out by the greed of banks and finance companies in recent years.


Bullshit!

Basic economics; a public sector has to be proportionate to the size of the private sector. The private sector funds it entirely, so if the private sector shrinks so must the public sector. As for your comment about pensions, the money invested by the governments to fund the public sector pensions is not enough. Public sector pensions ARE ALREADY MARVELLOUS, as an ordinary teacher or nurse will draw from a fund of over £0.5million to fund their pension. I wish I had a pension fund like that and yet I paid over £1Million in tax alone in 2008. Enought to cover 2 public sector pensions. They might be earning average salaries, but they expect to retire like millionaires. Pure greed IMO. You should get out of the system what you put in, simple as!


----------



## lovedubai

Nice to know I'm a millionaire. Retired after 20 years full time teaching on £5700 a year. Don't believe all you read in the Daily Mail!


----------



## Mistermark

MarkWass said:


> :? Sell / Disposal are the same


Of course. Apologies - I meant to write 'hold' rather than sell...


----------



## Mistermark

johnnyinspain said:


> No it isn't!!!!
> 
> Your investment is what you paid for it, not what its worth at any given point in time!!!
> 
> Hence, return on investment!!!
> 
> :bash:


Your *original* investment is indeed what you paid for an asset, but your return on investment is the total return (income and capital gain/loss) generated as a proportion of the market value.

Say I buy shares in a company for £1000 and they generate a dividend of £50 a year. That's a yield of five percent. If in a year's time the shares are still worth £1000 but the dividend is now only £25, the ROI will have dropped to 2.5%. If the expectation over the next year is that the dividend will be maintained but the share price will drop to £500, the ROI will be negative, and it would be prudent to sell the shares.

There are many people who held property in the UK during the boom because although the rental yields were sometimes below the cost of interest-only mortgages, with many properties, especially in London, generating rents of perhaps 3-4 percent of the market prices and BTL mortgages being close to double that level, ROI remained attractive due to capital appreciation. The opposite has held true in Dubai in recent years: net rental yields are around 7-9 percent, but ROI is negative due to continuing erosion of capital values.


----------



## MMDXB

Guys, appreciate your words. Well that's my way from one of the guys upstairs now over Bushra to Amal. I know what you mean with smooth talker but believe me the first 10 minutes I did not gave her time to breathe....then I let her started to talk and of course I realized what you mean. Thank good to my position in my previous work I had to deal with a lot of people from drivers to GM and CEO's from much bigger companies then them. 

I know the situation is frustrating....but with which choices we are left ? For my personal I see no option. A legal case is useless cause the winning chance is 50 %, I don't give more chance on that....they will find a way....and as u said.....they will never ever pay our money back....never.....when I went to Rera "the receptionist" told me after I told him I want to file a complaint against Rera, "Project not canceled, so we can't do anything" bumm that's it.....

They offered me a swap now from an apartment in Lawns 2 to Lawns 4, less size and less price....so far I only could negotiate the "transfer cost" from total 26.000 AED down to 11.000 AED. Well I know you will say why u except to pay any money to them if they broke the contract....Well you are all right but what choice I have.....continue to pay Pre-Emi to my bank for a Lawns 2 sand whole for I don't know how long or accept it and at least be on a property where it seems something is going on and they focused on that....

I can shout, jump up and down and whatsoever....there answer will be "thats our offer" because in this beautiful country there exist nothing like regulations who really really would protect you as in other country's .....there is only inshallah.....(sorry not take it personal).....

I'm just thinking right now not to accept this swap and maybe wait a couple of more month to see if something happen in Lawns 4...but at the end will it help me or not ? 

The situation is [email protected]#$ from any site you looking at it.....


----------



## MarkWass

^^

Yes assumed you meant hold.. 
Completed sale of London (rental investment) flat 2 weeks ago. Bought 10.5 years ago. OK 2 bed flat, 2 minutes walk to tube (metro). Originally just over 10% gross yield. New owners BTL'ers, though max gross yield they will be able to get now will be around 5%. 
So London, not so good for yield chaser types at mo…
Despite what many of the posters on the housepricecrash forum claim, rents in London have hardly risen much at all in the last decade and have actually dropped substantially when inflation adjusted. Although good rental demand at the mo..
Anyway, London a very different market to Dubai, as fixed supply and healthy mix of demand from owner occs, investors and tenants, albeit naturally subdued at the moment. Safer investment arena, laws *have* to be followed etc. No one can predict the future with any 100% certainty, but likelihood is that London market should pull through, even if Osbourne and pals are predicting the worse for the economy for a few more years to come.
But what about Dubai? The future? Thoughts?
… Anyone?


----------



## True Blue

lovedubai said:


> Nice to know I'm a millionaire. Retired after 20 years full time teaching on £5700 a year. Don't believe all you read in the Daily Mail!


Both my mother and grandmother were teachers all their days so I think it is safe to assume that this is just the teachers element of your pension and you still have a state earnings related pension to add to your £5,700.

When Thatcher came to power I was just a keen teenager trying to get rich quick, so I followed the news and tried to soak up as much information as possible relating to money and economics. I understood what Thatcher had discovered during her youth when she followed the Institue of Economic Affairs papers and meetings. Although she graduated from Oxford with BSc in Chemistry, she later used her economics interests to pursue a career in tax law. 

All of this specialist knowledge made it glaringly obvious to her what was wrong with the British economy. Simply the public sector was too large and was draining too much money from the private sector. This strain on the private sector, with taxation as high as 80%, was forcing businesses under and increasing unemployment. The cure for the economy was not to keep relying on taxation, it was to reduce the need for taxation by shrinking the size of the public sector and reducing its costs (hence the overkill decision to cut free school milk). 

What she saw, that Labour refused to acknowledge, was that many of the failing major companies and industries had been nationalised instead of shutting them and teaching the management and workers a lesson. As nationalised enterprises the losses compounded and added to the growing burden of the private sector. They were now effectively public sector organisations not private sector commercial businesses, therefore there was a massive inbalance between the size of the private sector and the size of the public sector carrying all these nationalised industries. The solution was simple, redress the balance by re privatising all these nationalised companies and more. That she did and Britain was restored to strength and wealth and returned to being a financial powerhouse in the world. All of the emergency bail out loans, taken from the IMF by the Labour governments, were able to be repaid.

Labour got back into power in the new millenium, start borrowing heavily again to support an expanding public sector and low and behold, resort to re nationalising tactics for failing businesses (Our Beloved Banks). Tories get in again and see the threat, hence the sell off of Northern Rock at bargain basement price, before it ends up becoming a private sector burden again. A lesson taught by Thatcher that was completely ignored again by Labour.

The only way forward for the UK and any country, is to live within its means and adapt as they fluctuate. If you only have so much money to spend on pensions, benefits etc, then you need to cut your cloth to suit. Not borrow it on the never never and hope the problem goes away, just as Labour did on more than one occasion. 

It's tough but it has to be done. Maybe we should re educate the teachers so they understand theses economics and pass it onto our children. Then they will perhaps realise that credit cards are not a form of free money


----------



## sgn7200

Hello MMDXB - I am glad you have taken a REALISTIC view of the whole situation. But do not give up and continue your efforts. Current situation is they are winning, dictating us the terms and have been able to fcus. However, the situation cannot stay like this indefinitely. Rulers in Dubai will continue to make bigger losses until such time they win back the confidence of foreign buyers. To win back overseas buyers several steps need to be taken including putting a whip in place for developers like DEC. Let us hope RERA will WAKE up to the needs of the hour before it is too late.

I have said before and I shall say this again that GOING LEGAL is not the way foward and is merely a step in the wrong direction as you will be spending money without any possible rewards in the near term. The way forward is getting united, keep visiting RERA and keep putting pressure on DEC to "BUILD OR REFUND". Do not let them get paid for coming to office to read newspapers behind close doors pretending to be too busy to see you. Cross examine them on every story they tell you and verify all the facts they give you. For example, someone wrote above there are new pictures on DEC web site re Lawn IV and Lawn V. However, I can only see old pictures going back to July/August this year. Those of us who are in DUBAI or visiting DUBAI, please make it a point to visit regularly RERA and DEC and keep doing this service to fellow human beings by giving us the feed back. Put written complaints to RERA and that should bring sufficient mud on the face of DEC to think of saving themselves from a tarnished image. DEC have sufficient equity in DUBAI and they CANNOT afford to have a bad image with RERA. Once this audit requirements set in, we can follow that route also. Please contribute your IDEAS to the forum. MMDXB, you always help the community and let us know when are you going back. You can ask them as to why Lawn IV and Lawn V have gone back on hold and when are they lifing this "ON HOLD".


----------



## MMDXB

I agree with you, a legal case is worthless....You are absolutely right but how long you want to wait....ok we wait already too long but how much longer can we wait....I can't see any change at the horizon.... 

It is the worst even for the one who financed it because we keep paying to the bank. We can't stop that....

My experience is also there is no use to shout at these people or whatsoever....a Ms. Amal or a Ms. Bushra they not afraid of there existence like any other employee, there are settled in there position within the company or country. You just can pressurize till a certain amount otherwise they will give up "trying" to help at all.

I read earlier on this sites Email address from CEO's from Rera + Land Department and I'm sure people wrote them....what is the outcome ? Any news on that....

As per my opinion we need to get a group together and approach these persons as single person will have little chance....

I'm still in Dubai more or less because I don't want to leave of this matter as it is difficult to manage anything from abroad. 

Hopefully this week I maybe can pass by and take some pics. However we need more or less a 24h camera over there installed to see people working.....


----------



## FWIW

True Blue said:


> Both my mother and grandmother were teachers all their days so I think it is safe to assume that this is just the teachers element of your pension and you still have a state earnings related pension to add to your £5,700.
> 
> When Thatcher came to power I was just a keen teenager trying to get rich quick, so I followed the news and tried to soak up as much information as possible relating to money and economics. I understood what Thatcher had discovered during her youth when she followed the Institue of Economic Affairs papers and meetings. Although she graduated from Oxford with BSc in Chemistry, she later used her economics interests to pursue a career in tax law.
> 
> All of this specialist knowledge made it glaringly obvious to her what was wrong with the British economy. Simply the public sector was too large and was draining too much money from the private sector. This strain on the private sector, with taxation as high as 80%, was forcing businesses under and increasing unemployment. The cure for the economy was not to keep relying on taxation, it was to reduce the need for taxation by shrinking the size of the public sector and reducing its costs (hence the overkill decision to cut free school milk).
> 
> What she saw, that Labour refused to acknowledge, was that many of the failing major companies and industries had been nationalised instead of shutting them and teaching the management and workers a lesson. As nationalised enterprises the losses compounded and added to the growing burden of the private sector. They were now effectively public sector organisations not private sector commercial businesses, therefore there was a massive inbalance between the size of the private sector and the size of the public sector carrying all these nationalised industries. The solution was simple, redress the balance by re privatising all these nationalised companies and more. That she did and Britain was restored to strength and wealth and returned to being a financial powerhouse in the world. All of the emergency bail out loans, taken from the IMF by the Labour governments, were able to be repaid.
> 
> Labour got back into power in the new millenium, start borrowing heavily again to support an expanding public sector and low and behold, resort to re nationalising tactics for failing businesses (Our Beloved Banks). Tories get in again and see the threat, hence the sell off of Northern Rock at bargain basement price, before it ends up becoming a private sector burden again. A lesson taught by Thatcher that was completely ignored again by Labour.
> 
> The only way forward for the UK and any country, is to live within its means and adapt as they fluctuate. If you only have so much money to spend on pensions, benefits etc, then you need to cut your cloth to suit. Not borrow it on the never never and hope the problem goes away, just as Labour did on more than one occasion.
> 
> It's tough but it has to be done. Maybe we should re educate the teachers so they understand theses economics and pass it onto our children. Then they will perhaps realise that credit cards are not a form of free money


Tb - some very good points in there especially about the part about our fiat money system. Why is it that this founding economic principle is not taught in our schools? Why do teachers not combine history with economics? Only the 'elites' get to learn about Philosophy, Politics and Economics as one subject and how they relate to one another.

Also goes to show that a lady from humble beginnings understood what it means to be brought up with limited wealth. The current crop of career politicians have no concept of cutting ones cloth to fit your needs. They have had a privileged upbringing where money or rather currency was and is in plentiful supply for them. For the other 99% it is very very scarce. We need another person who understands the real world economy but alas I think we are stuck with people who are easily led and corruptible.


----------



## MarkWass

^^ interesting stuff. And discussion of off topic.. ahem.. 'topics' is good, but given this thread is:

"Property & Investment in Dubai: Your questions about the market"

Now that we have hopefully dismissed all futile and nonsensical comments such as 'we're about to have bull run, baby' etc of a few weeks back, well and truly behind us, *anyone* got any sensible or realistic views on the above thread title, and future potential of it?


----------



## NadSid

*Summer Townhouses - Handover date and Compensation?*

Hi everyone,

Ishraqah are asking for more money now as the skeleton and facade have been completed. Have they advised a handover date and a compensation package? 

Is anyone going through lawyers to seek a refund at the moment?


----------



## gerald.d

lovedubai said:


> Nice to know I'm a millionaire. Retired after 20 years full time teaching on £5700 a year. Don't believe all you read in the Daily Mail!


You retired after only working for 20 years? Wow. Where do I sign up?!


----------



## Josau

Good reading material:
http://www.ameinfo.com/282371.html
Is the government doing enough to boost Dubai's real estate sector?


----------



## True Blue

gerald.d said:


> You retired after only working for 20 years? Wow. Where do I sign up?!


^^:lol:

2 women on the TV this morning; 1 an ethnic midwife who is going on strike as she insists that she wants her entitlement to 50% of her wage at age 60. The second was a white Englishwoman with a small business, she gave up contributing to her private pension as the fund she needed to accumulate in order to payout 50% of an average wage was just unaffordable. She conceded that she will probably have to work until she is no longer able to work. She will be working to support herself and the midwife sitting at home with her feet up reading the papers 

I hope it pisses with rain on the strikers on Wednesday and they all get the bubonic plague AND DIE! :bash: Parasites!

:lol:


----------



## FWIW

MarkWass said:


> ^^ interesting stuff. And discussion of off topic.. ahem.. 'topics' is good, but given this thread is:
> 
> "Property & Investment in Dubai: Your questions about the market"
> 
> Now that we have hopefully dismissed all futile and nonsensical comments such as 'we're about to have bull run, baby' etc of a few weeks back, well and truly behind us, *anyone* got any sensible or realistic views on the above thread title, and future potential of it?


OK - I'll try and bring this back on track!

Just got this email a few days ago:
http://www.bhomes.com/mailer/Miscellaneous/27-11-11.html










































Let's use that as an example and pull out some facts:
Bhomes state that return will be 8-12% Net ROI for fully managed short term lets
Bhome state that a 1 bed starts from 939,800 AED

Using our simple formula (and assuming I have the purchase funds available)lets work out how much we need to rent the unit out per annum to achieve 12% Net ROI?
Rent p.a. = net% x Purchase Price = 12% x 939,800 = 112,776 AED per annum (using short term lets and fully managed by bhomes)

From the calculation it looks like a great deal - BUT is it really Net ROI? What about service charges at approx 15 aed psf?

I might email Bhomes and ask them to explain to me how they generated the 9 -12% Net ROI! Do they use your 15% downpayment (rest on finance) to work out the Net ROI?? :lol:


----------



## True Blue

^^I think that this is the Tower that was going to be a timeshare residence. A tower in JBR was listed in the RCI exchange catalogue without pictures. A tower directly opposite Sheraton has been empty since they were finished so I assumed this was one and the same.

If they can get high occupancy on short term holiday lets then high ROI will be no problem.


----------



## Pleth

SGrCRAP said:


> TB,
> 
> There's no comparison bn the Torch and Dorrabay - you are right - DorraBay is actually quite a nice development - the sea facing units have been hijaked by all the construction work but the marina facing units are well located and have nice sized balconies - particularly on the lower floors from memory. There is zero risk of being built around at Dorra Bay. Units in the Torch will end up like 'community view' units in JBR. Dark, overlooked with small vistas of light. There's quite a bit of spare development land around the Torch and look what's happened everywhere else in the immediate vicinity - monster tall towers, built too close together.
> 
> I suspect Torch resales will correct significantly especially when all the problems start to appear in the Torch due to Select Group's inability to project manage DCE. If I held Torch units I would be selling them as quickly as possible while the place is still inside DLP. After that it will probably go downhill fast.


Must say I love Dorra Bay. It has this homely feeling mixed with luxury. Also I like this end of the Marina, near the beach and more quiet than JBR.
I miss the days when I lived in Dorra Bay.


----------



## Pleth

Let me just warn everybody looking to rent an apartment or even to rent one out.
Please be careful there are so many disorganized real estate agents, and you can end up living in an apartment where nothing works.
I have been very unlucky with the last agent Marks Falcon whom I rented from. I am taking a case against them in the Rent Comittee, and here I meet lots of other people who also face the same problems as me. 
Before you rent please check if the agent has skilled and organized workers. If not stay away from them.

It seems that when the recession started in Dubai they sent all the skilled workers back home and replaced them with low salary time-wasters!


----------



## I Know

Client asked to pay DLD fee on behalf of bank hno: May be asked to pay DLD fee once again after mortgage is fully paid off :lol:

An Islamic bank in the UAE is demanding that property buyers pay for the registration of their mortgaged property - in name of the bank.

“I got a call this morning from my bank and was briefed on the handover process. The bank official told me that after I had made all the payments, the property would be registered in the name of the bank,” said an investor.

"Why should I pay even one per cent if the property title is not in my name. Whoever has the title deed should pay the registration fee. That is the law isn't it?" said an investor.

"When my payment is complete, the bank will transfer the property in my name and I will again be asked to pay the registration fees. Effectively, the bank is asking me to pay four per cent as registration fee for the same property," he said.

"Mine is an Islamic bank and a Shariah-compliant institution," he added. On Tuesday, 'Emirates24|7' had published two 'Fatwas' from two Grand Muftis of Dubai, stating that the Islamic banks' demand that clients pay the full two per cent property registration fee is 'illegal' and not Shariah-compliant.

The law states that both buyer and seller should each pay 1 per cent of the property sale price as the registration fee to the Dubai Land Department (DLD).

"Yes, my bank took two per cent from me instead of one per cent, even when I had signed cheques for only one per cent. They fleeced me by an additional amount of about Dh9,000," said MB, an investor.

On reading about the Grand Muftis' Fatwas, DD, another investor with mortgage from an Islamic bank, told this website: "Yes I just last week paid the amounts. Please advise what's the next course of action?"

Investors are not sure what to do as some have already paid the full two per cent DLD fee instead of the lawful one per cent. They are asking for a refund. 

Now, an investor was told by a bank official that even though the client is being asked to pay the full two per cent registration fee, the property would be registered - not in the investor's name - but in the name of the bank.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...dld-fee-on-behalf-of-bank-2011-11-27-1.430180


----------



## MarkWass

Josau said:


> Good reading material:
> http://www.ameinfo.com/282371.html
> Is the government doing enough to boost Dubai's real estate sector?


*Yes, thanks for that Josau. Indeed good reading material, as you suggest.*

*Possible recipe (?) to stimulate the property market, and help protect the value of those who made 'very wise' investments (at the best end of the Marina), by possibly encouraging some investment back to town (at some point in the future) to meet the development pipeline:*

*Step 1: Enforce the existing Real Estate Laws.*

*Step 2: Refer to Step 1.*



*The article in full:*



*Is the government doing enough to boost Dubai's real estate sector?*

· United Arab Emirates: *3 hours, 52 minutes ago*
· 
· Few would claim that the Dubai government has been given an easy task in attempting to restore investor confidence in the real estate sector. An unprecedented crash saw those pumping money into projects run to the hills without a thought of glancing over their shoulders to check out the debris.
*By Jamie Knights*


Despite this, slowly, and in certain pockets, the market appears to be stabilising, but real estate experts contend that the government should be doing more to restore the confidence of investors. 

Chief Executive Officer of Greenstone Equity Partners, Alex Gemici, says the market will not stabilise unless foreign investors return to the market. "For this to happen, RERA needs to do more to help protect the contractual rights of the purchasers in limbo on uncompleted units," he said. "One way of doing this is by publishing all cancelled projects and forcing developers to perform their contractual obligations. Unless foreign investors feel that their rights are protected in an equitable manner, they will continue to stay away from the market."

Regarding the government's proposed plan, announced in June, to extend visas for developers, Gemici believes it will help, but "not enough".

"The real shot in the arm for the market will be: i) a full visa to a property owner as long as they own a property in the UAE, ii) expansion of free zones, iii) elimination of the 51% local ownership requirement for on-shore businesses, and iv) more transparency and predictability on civil litigation, maybe through the option to use DIFC courts on all real estate related civil litigation at the request of one of the parties as opposed to mutual consent as it is now," he argued. 

Gemici also added that on the regulation front, a law restricting the resale of a property contract (flipping) prior to the final delivery of a property would be needed to "avoid another bubble". 

Cluttons LLC sales and leasing manager, Mario Volpi agrees that the change of law in regards to visas "is definitely a step forward", adding "any plans to offer incentives to buy properties will always get our vote". 

However, he also believes that more needs to be done. "The government can always do more," he said. "Positive messages from them are a help and opening up more credit finance from banks in terms of mortgages and lower interest rates would be one solution.

"The government has been busy trying to kick start the UAE property market for a while now, but to date their efforts have not been as successful as they had hoped. Confidence is slowly returning but the world economy is hampering all attempts at the moment."
*Investor protection law earns praise*


An issue that experts have been fairly unanimous in their support for has been the Real Estate Investor Protection Law. It is aimed at providing clarity on various issues such as steps that an investor can take in case of project delays and how an investor can cancel the contract if the developer fails to fulfil his contractual obligation.

"The implementation of this law can only be good news for investors and owner occupiers alike," Volpi asserted. 

But while these moves, should they come into fruition, are seen as positive - if not necessarily far reaching enough - there is uncertainty over whether the Tanmia initiative, set up in a bid to complete stalled projects, will help. 

Gemici believes that it should be local lenders determining the financial viability of a project. 

"The market does not need new supply which gets completed due to government support as opposed to real market demand," he added. "When there is sustainable and real demand with waiting lists, the financing from non-government sources will become available."

From the investors point of view, Volpi said the Tanmia initiative was an excellent way of boosting the confidence of buyers of properties that ordinarily may have been delayed or shut down by the government. 

"From a market point of view this initiative will further cause price reductions as the oversupply of properties will continue to hamper any recovery in terms of price," he said. "Remember these towers/projects were launched at the height of the market when no one was in recession and Dubai had never heard of a property downturn."

So while moves are being made by Dubai's authorities to restore confidence in the market, it would seem that there is still some way to go. 

Both Gemici and Volpi asserted their belief that 
oversupply would be an issue, with Gemici adding that he believes less desirable locations would continue to lose value through 2012, up to 25% in some cases.

Volpi contends that the apartment market will remain soft for some time due to the "continual handing over of towers", but that the villa market has reached the bottom in some instances, with even signs of price increases in some areas. 

But ultimately, with fluctuations and continual supply, many prospective buyers remain dubious about returning to the scene of the crash, even if they may be at last able to turn and look at the fallout from afar. "I think that investors are uneasy about the future direction of prices, oversupply and regulatory uncertainty," Gemici concluded.


----------



## 3smiles1day

VR6 said:


> Spurs - looking at that link, you rightly point out that only the Townhouse developments are taking place. In this instance, is there a mechanism in Dubai for ASI to reclaim the monies on our behalf. We too invested in the office units which are not being developed.


VR6. The office units will not be built according to ASI. There is an oversupply of office units already built in that area and they are now vacant. As I have said earlier, I do not have much confidence in RERA or UAE authourities to reclaim the deposits. Even if they do, it will take several months if not years. It's probably the weather that people in UAE tend to be moving in slow motion.


----------



## glover

yes, looking for a bargain, someone who wants to sell quickly. at the prices you quoted, the apt stays on the market for maybe 2-4 months, and prices are coming down even in the marina now, especially the tallest block! you can get a fully furnished 2br in JBR today for AED1.15m. that's something that would be unheard of last year, when supposedly property prices were worse than this year.



propertybuyer999 said:


> Glover
> You really are looking for a bargain. Two bedroom apartments in the torch are currently selling for between 930,000 and 950,000 AED which equates to a price per square foot of between 745 and 761 AED. At your price per square foot, you want a two bedroom apartment for 811,200 AED or a saving of between 118,800 and 138,800 AED. My figures are based on a two bed apartment on a high floor. If you can buy at your price and rent at current market prices that will be a pretty good return on investment.


----------



## 234sale

So here you go..

Internal list of about 20% of the market of downtown... 


















These are the real asking prices, presume inclusive of sellers agency fees
http://www.skyscraperlist.com/admindocs/Downtown Prices.xlsx
^^ If you wanna down load it..


----------



## Josau

Interesting read: So much for "THE UAE WON'T BE AFFECTED BY THE CREDIT AND EURO CRISIS"
http://www.thenational.ae/business/travel-tourism/cargo-traffic-through-dubai-falls-amid-global-woes


----------



## gerald.d

Interesting list Sale.

Is that Burj 4-bedder with 2000sq ft terrace listed twice at two prices though?

Wouldn't mind a viewing of it!


----------



## noir-dresses

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1091881--is-home-ownership-really-a-smart-investment

A little off topic, but still the same principles. Read the article this morning, and thought I would share it with you guys.  

Is home ownership really a smart investment.


----------



## bizzybonita

*Dubai leasing guide for Nov-Dec
*

*for Dubai villas guide
*http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/1.931268!menu/standard/file/Dubai villas.pdf

*for Dubai apartments guide
*http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/1.931272!menu/standard/file/Dubai apartments.pdf




http://gulfnews.com/business/property/dubai-leasing-guide-for-nov-dec-1.931265


----------



## bizzybonita

*STORY1
*
As the founder and chairman of Danube Building Materials, real estate is the playground of Rizwan Sajan. So, when it comes to investing in property, he hardly makes any mistakes.
Rizwan's first investment was in Jumeirah Beach Residence, at the time of its launch. He purchased two three-bedroom apartments facing the sea at Dh699,000 each. He sold these properties four years later at Dh2 million each. That inspired him to invest more in real estate and today he owns properties in Dubai and Ajman. "Whenever I buy property, I calculate the land price, the construction cost and how much I am paying for it. Not a single property that I have bought is more than Dh700 to Dh800 per square foot, because I feel the construction cost of a tower is not more than Dh400 to Dh500 per square foot and the land cost would be Dh100 to Dh200 per square foot. It has come down even more now."
Rizwan says he would not invest in a property if the developer demands Dh2,000 per square foot just because market prices are high at the time. "That's what saved us when the market crashed," he says.
He has rented out 90 per cent of the properties he bought in areas such as Dubai Marina, Burj Khalifa, Jumeirah Beach Residence, Emirates Living, Dubai Silicon Oasis, Dubai Investment Park, Green Community and in Ajman, where he has a few apartments in Corniche Tower. He claims that, despite some negative reports on the market, properties in Dubai in general give a return on investment (ROI) of 8 to 10 per cent. "There is no point in selling the properties I own as they are giving me a decent ROI of 6 to 7 per cent on an average," he says. In the past six months, property prices in prime locations have shown an increase of about 10 to 15 per cent, he adds.
Rizwan says, compared to property prices in his home country, India, Dubai properties are cheaper and have more value additions. "For example, the property prices in suburban Mumbai, where I come from, is in the range of Rs25,000 to Rs30,000 (Dh1,900 to Dh2,300). However, in a prime location such as Dubai Marina or JBR, you can buy a sea-facing unit for about Dh800 per square foot. How can this place go wrong?" he asks.
His piece of advice for people who are unsure whether to buy or not is, "Buy today because you will never get this chance again. Prices are at the bottom level and they can only go up."


----------



## bizzybonita

*STORY 2
*
Dr B.R. Shetty's first taste of UAE property was in 1973, in a shared room in Abu Dhabi. He's come a long way since then and is now one of the top property investors in the country.
Owner of NMC Hospital and UAE Exchange, Shetty says he never lost faith in the Dubai property market. Taking a long-term approach to all of his investments, when recession lapped at the UAE shores, Shetty was completely unfazed.
"When the market was booming, I would have only gained a notional profit, and similarly, I didn't lose anything when the market crashed," he says. "I am passionate about real estate. I bought the entire 100th floor of Burj Khalifa out of sheer passion. I wanted to be a part of this iconic development, the world's tallest building," says Shetty.
He recollects the day he was invited to Emaar Properties' sales office, where apartments at Burj Khalifa were being sold. "I waited for five hours in a queue and found that all except the 100th floor was sold out. I immediately bought this entire floor because, I believe, it is a prestigious address," he says, adding that even now he is being contacted by many prospective buyers for this property — although he is in no hurry to sell it. "I bought Burj Khalifa units at Dh3,000 per square foot and then it went up to Dh10,000 to Dh12,000 per square foot. But then the value came down again. Even now I can sell it for the price I bought at, but I am prepared to wait until I get good returns," he says. Shetty is now planning to use the three apartments on this floor as guest homes.
The first property Shetty invested in was on Palm Jumeirah - a five-bedroom villa where he spends his weekends. That was just the beginning. He now owns apartments in Dubai's World Trade Centre, Sky Tower and Tala Tower in Abu Dhabi. He also owns the 141st floor of the Burj Khalifa, where he plans to setup his corporate office for international businesses.
While he hasn't bought any property recently because he has been busy expanding his business worldwide, he says this is the best moment in a long time to buy property in Dubai. "At the current prices, your investment can't go wrong in a market like Dubai or Abu Dhabi," is his advice to people who have long-term plans for this country. 

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/the-real-estate-investors-reaping-the-rewards-1.929559


----------



## Imre

bizzybonita said:


> *STORY1
> *
> As the founder and chairman of Danube Building Materials, real estate is the playground of Rizwan Sajan. So, when it comes to investing in property, he hardly makes any mistakes.
> Rizwan's first investment was in Jumeirah Beach Residence, at the time of its launch. He purchased two three-bedroom apartments facing the sea at Dh699,000 each. He sold these properties four years later at Dh2 million each. That inspired him to invest more in real estate and today he owns properties in Dubai and Ajman. "Whenever I buy property, I calculate the land price, the construction cost and how much I am paying for it. *Not a single property that I have bought is more than Dh700 to Dh800 per square foot*, because I feel the construction cost of a tower is not more than Dh400 to Dh500 per square foot and the land cost would be Dh100 to Dh200 per square foot. It has come down even more now."
> Rizwan says he would not invest in a property if the developer demands Dh2,000 per square foot just because market prices are high at the time. "That's what saved us when the market crashed," he says.
> He has rented out 90 per cent of the properties he bought in areas such as Dubai Marina,* Burj Khalifa*, Jumeirah Beach Residence, Emirates Living, Dubai Silicon Oasis, Dubai Investment Park, Green Community and in Ajman, where he has a few apartments in Corniche Tower. He claims that, despite some negative reports on the market, properties in Dubai in general give a return on investment (ROI) of 8 to 10 per cent. "There is no point in selling the properties I own as they are giving me a decent ROI of 6 to 7 per cent on an average," he says. In the past six months, property prices in prime locations have shown an increase of about 10 to 15 per cent, he adds.
> Rizwan says, compared to property prices in his home country, India, Dubai properties are cheaper and have more value additions. "For example, the property prices in suburban Mumbai, where I come from, is in the range of Rs25,000 to Rs30,000 (Dh1,900 to Dh2,300). However, in a prime location such as Dubai Marina or JBR, you can buy a sea-facing unit for about Dh800 per square foot. How can this place go wrong?" he asks.
> His piece of advice for people who are unsure whether to buy or not is, "Buy today because you will never get this chance again. Prices are at the bottom level and they can only go up."


7-800 Dhs/sqft was a good price for Burj Khalifa if its true.. :lol::lol:


----------



## Imre

bizzybonita said:


> *STORY 2
> *
> Dr B.R. Shetty's first taste of UAE property was in 1973, in a shared room in Abu Dhabi. He's come a long way since then and is now one of the top property investors in the country.
> Owner of NMC Hospital and UAE Exchange, Shetty says he never lost faith in the Dubai property market. Taking a long-term approach to all of his investments, when recession lapped at the UAE shores, Shetty was completely unfazed.
> "When the market was booming, I would have only gained a notional profit, and similarly, I didn't lose anything when the market crashed," he says. "I am passionate about real estate. I bought the entire 100th floor of Burj Khalifa out of sheer passion. I wanted to be a part of this iconic development, the world's tallest building," says Shetty.
> He recollects the day he was invited to Emaar Properties' sales office, where apartments at Burj Khalifa were being sold. *"I waited for five hours in a queue and found that all except the 100th floor was sold out. I immediately bought this entire floor because, I believe, it is a prestigious address*," he says, adding that even now he is being contacted by many prospective buyers for this property — although he is in no hurry to sell it. "I bought Burj Khalifa units at Dh3,000 per square foot and then it went up to Dh10,000 to Dh12,000 per square foot. But then the value came down again. Even now I can sell it for the price I bought at, but I am prepared to wait until I get good returns," he says. Shetty is now planning to use the three apartments on this floor as guest homes.
> The first property Shetty invested in was on Palm Jumeirah - a five-bedroom villa where he spends his weekends. That was just the beginning. He now owns apartments in Dubai's World Trade Centre, Sky Tower and Tala Tower in Abu Dhabi. He also owns the 141st floor of the Burj Khalifa, where he plans to setup his corporate office for international businesses.
> While he hasn't bought any property recently because he has been busy expanding his business worldwide, he says this is the best moment in a long time to buy property in Dubai. "At the current prices, your investment can't go wrong in a market like Dubai or Abu Dhabi," is his advice to people who have long-term plans for this country.
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/the-real-estate-investors-reaping-the-rewards-1.929559



Shetty said he didn’t know how many apartments he owns in the two floors but he did tell the New Delhi-based newspaper that the two floors cost Rs 570m ($12.47m) each.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/indian-businessman-pays-25m-for-two-floors-in-burj-khalifa-27293.html

:lol:


----------



## gerald.d

Well done Imre for pointing out what utter bullshit those "stories" are.

:cheers:

Still, it's the time of year that parents tell their kids that Santa Claus will be bringing them presents if they've been good little boys and girls over the past year, so perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> What's interesting about it Steve?
> 
> This demonstrates what will happen to The Torch marina facing units


You missed the point, the 3 beds in the Torch listed at 0.5m more than Dorra bay 3 beds of the same size are not marina facing so already do not have any view.


----------



## MarkWass

Dubai_Steve said:


> You missed the point


Using pure logic alone, it seems he's missed the point on many fronts, but despite that he has somehow miraculously seemed to have attracted something of a following somehow, despite everything. Perhaps his communication skills are simply far superior to us mere mortals. I'm truly bewildered. Not sure what to suggest. 

Um... perhaps a career in politics could be your next move TB? :lol:


----------



## kamenoff

Guys,

I am looking for investors in Elite 5. Elite 5 has been practically put on hold. Since March only one slab has been completed and there is no any plan to be completed soon, if ever. As you are aware Elite 7 was already put on hold (officially) and as the progress of all Triplanet projects are concern, Elite 5 is next to go.
I cannot forget about the money invested in the project and I am sure that all investors feel in the same way. What is more frustrating, is the fact that Triplanet doesn't provide any information about their financial situation, the reasons behind the delays and most of all no any future direction.
I would encourage all investors in Elite 5 to contact me so we can take some plan of action.


----------



## Imre

gerald.d said:


> Well done Imre for pointing out what utter bullshit those "stories" are.
> 
> :cheers:
> 
> Still, it's the time of year that parents tell their kids that Santa Claus will be bringing them presents if they've been good little boys and girls over the past year, so perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised.


The second (first one as well  ) story is total BS , he is VVIP ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._R._Shetty ) , I doubt that he had to wait 5 hours in queue.. for those investors had pre-pre-pre... launch ..:lol:


----------



## Josau

Defaulting on service fees. Scary and happening all over:
http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/tenants-put-at-risk-from-fee-defaults-in-dubai


----------



## Porcello

Josau said:


> Defaulting on service fees. Scary and happening all over:
> http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/tenants-put-at-risk-from-fee-defaults-in-dubai


"In Yacht Bay, a Dubai Marina complex where 85 of the 175 owners are up to date on their fees" ..... "In Yacht Bay, the association is owed more than Dh1 million (US$272,227) in fees from owners."...."We may not have enough to pay the next Dewa [Dubai Electricity and Water Authority] bill"

Another example of suspicious article. The budget of a building with this many owners would be more than 4 million. If half of them were in default, much more than 1M would be due, unless the defaulters had not paid only the last installment. If 50% of the owners are defaulting or delaying only their last installment and they cannot pay the next DEWA bill it means that the budget has been prepared in a terrible way and/or the tower is horribly managed.

Journalists in UAE have no clue, are not prepared enough, don't care enough, or cannot write the truth.


----------



## Josau

Porcello, you have a point there, however smaller units contribute less money to the budget than bigger ones. In the end, the article points out, that we are in for a problem and it is mostly due to the lack of transparency in these budgets. This is I guess the main reason people don't pay. The developers, who are still in charge, have lost their good reputation and everybody feels cheated by them, wether this be true or not. 
Problems with unpaid maintenance fees exist to some extend all over the world in multiple ownership buildings, but some countries have found ways to make people pay up or their flat is up for auction.


----------



## Porcello

Josau said:


> Porcello, you have a point there, however smaller units contribute less money to the budget than bigger ones. In the end, the article points out, that we are in for a problem and it is mostly due to the lack of transparency in these budgets. This is I guess the main reason people don't pay. The developers, who are still in charge, have lost their good reputation and everybody feels cheated by them, wether this be true or not.
> Problems with unpaid maintenance fees exist to some extend all over the world in multiple ownership buildings, but some countries have found ways to make people pay up or their flat is up for auction.


You're absolutely right. The strata law would allow the OA to put a lien on the unit of defaulters and eventually allow them to auction it. Unfortunately this option is not enforceable at the moment since OAs are not yet legal entities; also, this is a practical route only when there are very few defaulters and the budget of the building is healthy enough to pay for lawsuits.

The only options at the moment are to deny access to common areas and to deny NOCs for title deeds or units sales. However, all the buildings I know where these rules have been implemented have usually more than 90% collection success rate.


----------



## I Know

Dubai real estate agents doubling up on charges
Some real estate agents in Dubai have resorted to charging commission fees to both buyers and sellers in a bid to bolster revenues that have fallen by nearly two-thirds.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-real-estate-agents-doubling-up-on-charges-432676.html


----------



## I Know

Tenants put at risk from fee defaults in Dubai hno:

More than 60 per cent of owners in some Dubai buildings are not paying their service fees, forcing homeowner associations to make tough choices.

In Yacht Bay, a Dubai Marina complex where 85 of the 175 owners are up to date on their fees, the association is replacing only half of the broken light bulbs in the communal hallways. Painting, replacing broken ceiling tiles and exterior cleaning have been put on hold, and the association is delaying payments to many of its service providers

http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/tenants-put-at-risk-from-fee-defaults-in-dubai


----------



## notsoskinnygirl

*Looking for A Class Action?*

Hi this is not so skinny girl. I think we all know who she is don't we.
I am looking for investors in further disgruntled PV Dubai investors who are interested in joining me in a Class Action against Sunland Group Limited in Australia. I have already started so join me . You can contact me on [email protected]:bash:


----------



## skinnygirl

notsoskinnygirl said:


> Hi this is not so skinny girl. I think we all know who she is don't we.
> I am looking for investors in further disgruntled PV Dubai investors who are interested in joining me in a Class Action against Sunland Group Limited in Australia. I have already started so join me . You can contact me on [email protected]:bash:


Hey Carol, before you get over excited...here's some info:

1) Enshaa have now taken 100% control of the development of the PV and D1so you are planning to sue the wrong party. Either way, it's probably a waste of time and money, but as it's both your time and your money, you might want to give it some more thought?
2) Enshaa have a successful track record and their shareholders have loads of dough. In addition to which, they have swapped their holding in the Q1 (which generates revenue) for 100% of the PV and D1 which currently only generates costs! That shows their confidence and commitment.
3) Enshaa have also been granted licence to develop several other PV's around the World, so that shows they have the confidence of the House of Versace.
4) Expect Enshaa to issue a new timetable for Completion in the next few weeks. My guess would be end of 2012 but we'll have to wait and see.
5) Several other projects will soon be restarted in Culture Village. Some with new developers who see the potential of the area. All good news!

All for now boys and girls. 
No doubt the usual collection on negative knuckleheads will all be adding their clouds to my silver lining...but sadly, that's life!

In the meantime, y'all have a good day.


----------



## axe2grind

*MORE SCARMONGERING BY YOU KNOW WHO*



skinnygirl said:


> Hey Carol, before you get over excited...here's some info:
> 
> 1) Enshaa have now taken 100% control of the development of the PV and D1so you are planning to sue the wrong party. Either way, it's probably a waste of time and money, but as it's both your time and your money, you might want to give it some more thought?
> 2) Enshaa have a successful track record and their shareholders have loads of dough. In addition to which, they have swapped their holding in the Q1 (which generates revenue) for 100% of the PV and D1 which currently only generates costs! That shows their confidence and commitment.
> 3) Enshaa have also been granted licence to develop several other PV's around the World, so that shows they have the confidence of the House of Versace.
> 4) Expect Enshaa to issue a new timetable for Completion in the next few weeks. My guess would be end of 2012 but we'll have to wait and see.
> 5) Several other projects will soon be restarted in Culture Village. Some with new developers who see the potential of the area. All good news!
> 
> All for now boys and girls.
> No doubt the usual collection on negative knuckleheads will all be adding their clouds to my silver lining...but sadly, that's life!
> 
> In the meantime, y'all have a good day.


I suppose it would be expected that the Parrot would have to respond to something that Sunland Group Limited is now finding difficult. One has to ask how she is in such a privvy position to have access to all this "positive" information. Oh, I forgot she works for Sunland. 

By the way skinny one, try posting without all the underlying sarcasm the only knucklehead is you!!!! and if you hadn't noticed there isn't one post in support of the position you are taking which is to put your head in the sand and you know which part of your body is exposed when you do that!!!!!

I suppose Sunland Group Limited, who the parrot works for, think they have made a smart move by doing the cosy deal with Enshaa. Well Abidian has now made the biggest mistake he could have and the reason is this.
If you are an investor in PV Dubai then check your contract/reservation agreement to see who you contracted with. Your investment has been traded by Sunland Group Limited Australia and is now sitting in Palazzo Versace on the Gold Coast in Australia in a completed development. You have to follow the money!!!! 

So Sunland Group Limited Australia having taken your money to Australia and investing it in a completed project I think all investors should be thanking Abidian for thinking of them first and not himself as he has done in the past. Just remember how Emirates Sunland have dealt with investors on the White Bay project in UAQ and questions should also be asked as to whose money paid for the plot on the Dubai Waterfront project.

So as your money is now in Australia it is possible to ask for it back or ask for a return on investment from Abidian and his shareholders.

Yes extremely unlikely to happen, so they have to be forced to do so and that means taking legal action against Sunland Group Ltd Australia in the Queensland courts. One noteworthy thing is that there had previously been a post about taking collective action in the courts in Dubai. Well that isn't possible here but a class action in Australia is and I am with Carol Alderson and so should all other investors who feel that they have been misled by Emirates Sunland and all the other BVI companies and their subsidiaries that they have been hiding behind.

On checking some of these companies it would appear that Emirates Sunland does not own the land that PV Dubai is built on but is owned by a subsidiary. This is illegal in Dubai and the Emirates and is part of the underlying deception that has been going on with this development.

There has been quite a bit in the Australian press regarding Sunland Group of late and I will post the articles serparately, quite embarassing stuff especially for the head of Sunland Groups middle east operations, Mr. David Brown.

And finally another one for Skinnygirl, please make up your mind when the completion date is as you have posted yet another one without any substantiation. Its boring love!!!!


----------



## axe2grind

*SUNLAND COURT CASE*

Go to http://www.smh.com.au/business/judge-queries-sunland-witness-20111129-1o54q.html

and

http://www.smh.com.au/business/credibility-of-sunland-witness-under-fire-20111129-1o54q.html

Note the comment from the judge in this case and also that 3 times Sunland Group Ltd. made statements to the Australian stockmarket in February, March and July of 2009 in which they denied that Mr. Brown was being investigated by the Dubai authorities, something that Mr. Brown, under oath, was forced to acknowledge that he was being investigated. The judge was scathing of Mr. Brown's evidence, and this is the guy we are all supposed to believe is being truthful and transparent in his dealings on PV Dubai.

These are the lengths that the directors and CEO of Sunland Group Ltd. are prepared to stoop in an attempt to prevent the truth being told.

Remember the truth is out there and it will be revealed.

As more comes out of this case I will post it.


----------



## chefdude

Porcello said:


> The only options at the moment are to deny access to common areas and to deny NOCs for title deeds or units sales. However, all the buildings I know where these rules have been implemented have usually more than 90% collection success rate.



There is another innovative and easily enforceable option open. I think it is fairly obvious that the majority of the Service Charge defaulters are landlords living abroad that think they are insulated from the day to day problems of Dubai. All they care about is that their unit is rented out and the money is being deposited in their bank accounts.

If building rules were brought in by an O.A. that before any unit could be rented out they needed an NOC from the O.A. confirming that the Service Charges and any other outstanding items had been paid. No NOC no rental income, and as it is policy dictated by the O.A. of the building it would not require any Dubai laws to back it up.


----------



## Flintbug

If only the OAs were actually in charge we might be able to talk sensibly about how big a problem there is and the best measures to resolve it. 

However most service budgets are still in the control of the dodgy developers that ripped off the owners. Is it any wonder that those owners don' t want to pay any money to developers that have already stolen from them and do not provide enough justification behind their exorbitant service fee levels.

If the owners were genuinely in charge with their own bank account and having selected a service management company from the competitive market, then a lot more owners would pay.

I have paid my service charges but do not trust that the developer will actually hand that money to the OA once they get established with a bank account. 

One point maybe also being overlooked is that a proportion of service fees goes towards the master development. Are the unfinished towers contributing their fair share to the common facilities?


----------



## Porcello

chefdude said:


> If building rules were brought in by an O.A. that before any unit could be rented out they needed an NOC from the O.A. confirming that the Service Charges and any other outstanding items had been paid. No NOC no rental income, and as it is policy dictated by the O.A. of the building it would not require any Dubai laws to back it up.


I've seen this strategy in action in D.E.C. towers, Marina. The FM prevents tenants from moving their furniture in if there are pending fees. Unfortunately this works only when a new tenant is renting for the first year, but it works nevertheless.


----------



## Ahmed N

Androider said:


> 31st slab is almost complete.


Excellent, things are progressing. Hopefully we have turned the corner. Has anybody received letter from ACI/ RERA requesting next payment?

Thanks Androider for the update. Pictures would be even better if possible. IMRE if you could also help with photos.

Thanks.


----------



## R Malhotra

I would suggest that each one of us should pay when ACI demands the payment, else this will further delay the project.


----------



## Androider

Ahmed N said:


> Excellent, things are progressing. Hopefully we have turned the corner. Has anybody received letter from ACI/ RERA requesting next payment?
> 
> Thanks Androider for the update. Pictures would be even better if possible. IMRE if you could also help with photos.
> 
> Thanks.


Yea i have received exactly the same letter as was posted above.

I will pay.

I kinda believe that they gonna get finished by april 2013.


----------



## skinnygirl

^^^^

Oh dear Axe, with all that emotion, irrelevance and irrationality it’s difficult to know where to start?
Well, here goes….firstly, Sunland/Emirates Sunland and all their subsidiaries are now out of the project to develop the PV and D1 so your continued references to them are totally irrelevant and surely, no one is seriously considering taking legal action against Sunland in Australia! Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever but as I said earlier, its Carol Whatshername’s time and money and therefore hers to waste as she sees fit. Bless her!

Moving onto the swap deal, the existing SAP contracts will be assigned to Enshaa, so there should be no change to the investor T’s & C’s and the Escrow account arrangements will also stay the same. Obviously, control of the account will now pass to Enshaa.

No idea what you were talking about with reference to the development money being transferred to Australia – there has been an Escrow account in existence right from the outset, so that view is nonsense.

With regard to which Sunland Company owns the land, that question is also now irrelevant as ownership will transfer to an Enshaa company as part of the swap deal or did you seriously think they would take over the project without owning the land?

On the same basis, your comments about Sunland’s Waterfront and White Bay projects are also completely irrelevant as is the “bribery” court case. Apart from the fact they are all different projects and have nothing to do with the PV or D1, Sunland are now OUT OF THE DEAL….geddit?

Moving on to something more constructive, it would now be sensible to wait for a communication from Enshaa as no doubt they will cover the DEWA issues as well as the Completion timetable. Both are investor “hot” topics which they will have under control as if they weren’t confident of delivering, they wouldn’t have done the swap. In the meantime, why not arrange a site visit to the PV? It’s very easy, you just phone them and fix a date and then not only could you check on your investment first hand but you could also ask your questions to the appropriate people (i.e. the developer)? I am of course assuming that you live in or near the UAE, although if you don’t it would explain some of your more wayward observations.

Just for the record, I am neither an employee of Sunland nor Enshaa, nor am I privy (please note, only one “V”) to any information. Also, I am not trying to be sarcastic – a tiny bit patronising maybe…but given your comments honey, who can blame me? Nevertheless, I would like to think my input and suggestions are taken as constructive, but I suspect in your case they will go in one ear and out the other (if they manage to avoid the knuckles in between!!) – Sorry about that cheap shot Axe honey…just couldn’t resist.

My estimate of a Completion date of 12 months from now wasn’t substantiated, that’s why I said it was a GUESS! What’s yours and when Enshaa issue theirs, we can see who is the closest? 

I will now be “off the air” until Enshaa make an announcement. Enjoy your site visit – it may be a revelation!


----------



## Pleth

Flintbug said:


> If only the OAs were actually in charge we might be able to talk sensibly about how big a problem there is and the best measures to resolve it.
> 
> However most service budgets are still in the control of the dodgy developers that ripped off the owners. Is it any wonder that those owners don' t want to pay any money to developers that have already stolen from them and do not provide enough justification behind their exorbitant service fee levels.
> 
> If the owners were genuinely in charge with their own bank account and having selected a service management company from the competitive market, then a lot more owners would pay.
> 
> I have paid my service charges but do not trust that the developer will actually hand that money to the OA once they get established with a bank account.
> 
> One point maybe also being overlooked is that a proportion of service fees goes towards the master development. Are the unfinished towers contributing their fair share to the common facilities?


But why is it that the developer is the management company for the building? It should be a board of tennants and developer in a joint venture?


----------



## UAE Investor

Dubai’s population clock is within touching distance of reaching the 2-million landmark, with Dubai Statistics Centre’s population clock reaching 1,995,125 yesterday, up by almost 100,000 since the beginning of 2011.

The emirate needs less than 5,000 residents to reach the landmark, and with the population growing by more than 8,000 residents every month this year, Dubai will see its 2 millionth resident in 2011 itself, data shows.

Gosh!... where are we going to accommodate all these people :lol: 

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...nth-resident-in-two-weeks-2011-12-04-1.431151


----------



## axe2grind

*NOT LOOKING GOOD FOR SUNLAND*



skinnygirl said:


> ^^^^
> 
> Oh dear Axe, with all that emotion, irrelevance and irrationality it’s difficult to know where to start?
> Well, here goes….firstly, Sunland/Emirates Sunland and all their subsidiaries are now out of the project to develop the PV and D1 so your continued references to them are totally irrelevant and surely, no one is seriously considering taking legal action against Sunland in Australia! Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever but as I said earlier, its Carol Whatshername’s time and money and therefore hers to waste as she sees fit. Bless her!
> 
> Moving onto the swap deal, the existing SAP contracts will be assigned to Enshaa, so there should be no change to the investor T’s & C’s and the Escrow account arrangements will also stay the same. Obviously, control of the account will now pass to Enshaa.
> 
> No idea what you were talking about with reference to the development money being transferred to Australia – there has been an Escrow account in existence right from the outset, so that view is nonsense.
> 
> With regard to which Sunland Company owns the land, that question is also now irrelevant as ownership will transfer to an Enshaa company as part of the swap deal or did you seriously think they would take over the project without owning the land?
> 
> On the same basis, your comments about Sunland’s Waterfront and White Bay projects are also completely irrelevant as is the “bribery” court case. Apart from the fact they are all different projects and have nothing to do with the PV or D1, Sunland are now OUT OF THE DEAL….geddit?
> 
> Moving on to something more constructive, it would now be sensible to wait for a communication from Enshaa as no doubt they will cover the DEWA issues as well as the Completion timetable. Both are investor “hot” topics which they will have under control as if they weren’t confident of delivering, they wouldn’t have done the swap. In the meantime, why not arrange a site visit to the PV? It’s very easy, you just phone them and fix a date and then not only could you check on your investment first hand but you could also ask your questions to the appropriate people (i.e. the developer)? I am of course assuming that you live in or near the UAE, although if you don’t it would explain some of your more wayward observations.
> 
> Just for the record, I am neither an employee of Sunland nor Enshaa, nor am I privy (please note, only one “V”) to any information. Also, I am not trying to be sarcastic – a tiny bit patronising maybe…but given your comments honey, who can blame me? Nevertheless, I would like to think my input and suggestions are taken as constructive, but I suspect in your case they will go in one ear and out the other (if they manage to avoid the knuckles in between!!) – Sorry about that cheap shot Axe honey…just couldn’t resist.
> 
> My estimate of a Completion date of 12 months from now wasn’t substantiated, that’s why I said it was a GUESS! What’s yours and when Enshaa issue theirs, we can see who is the closest?
> 
> I will now be “off the air” until Enshaa make an announcement. Enjoy your site visit – it may be a revelation!


Nice try but I can assure you I am not Carol Alderson but in any case what a load of old drivel and thank god you're now off the air.

But as I promised more from the continuing saga in Melbourne and Sunland's chief of operations in Dubai Mr. David Brown. Here is the link.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/witness-admits-pair-held-on-false-claims-20111203-1occx.html

A little bird (not a screeching Parrot) has told me that our one and only Skinnygirl has sworn an affadavit in this case and will be giving evidence, hence being off the air. I think she's off her head but then who am I to speculate and judge.

The Australian Stock Exchange have now taken such an interest in the goings on in this case that they will be sending an observer to report on what comes out of the proceedings.

Expect the case to crash and be thrown out, as it deserves to be, but hopefully not before the Parrot has had to give evidence.

Will keep you posted on developments.

I also have an interesting article that was published in "The Australian" newspaper on 17th November 2011 by Florence Chong. It goes under the title of "Dubai Brawl sees Sunland heading to Court". This one does involve Carol Alderson when she attended the AGM of Sunland Group at Palazzo Versace on the Gold Coast. I am having trouble finding the link but will endeavour to post the full article when I can figure out how to attach a pdf file of the article. Any assistance greatly accepted as being dyslexic is a big disadvantage to me in "my old age", hence the two V's and you know what they mean in Churchillian English.

The AGM was supposed to go out on a live feed but Sunland obviously decided not to broadcast it as Mrs. Alderson had her say about what Sunland Group were up to in Dubai with her money. This one is going to roll believe me.


----------



## Flintbug

A bit of transparency from the OA side would help too. Simply demanding service charges without any accounts and asking for payments to be paid in contradiction of contract terms does not create a great incentive for owners to pay.


----------



## AppleMac

Imre said:


> I still think the best option is the access card system for common areas , pool, gym , car park etc.. Developers can re-programming every 6 months and filtering the defaulters .


We are trying that but it is only successful up to a point - there is still a hard core of non payers who you can do nothing about without some sort of legal sanction - and as yet RERA are dragging their feet on that one.


----------



## Flintbug

I guess RERA are dragging their feet as going legal is likely to open up a huge can of worms - apartment sizes & features not as sold, Sales & Purchase Agreements ignored, Force Majeure used as excuse for poor planning, cheating developers still controlling OAs.

The real answer is to tackle the far lower number of rogue developers before tackling the thousands of owners that each have a valid case to throw back if ever challenged in court.

My feeling is that RERA are concentrating on getting as much built as possible, spending everything that is in Escrow accounts and then expecting to muddle through to finish the majority of starts before, hopefully, disciplining developers. 

With rogue developers off the scene and nowhere near OAs, then OAs will be more easily supportable by a RERA imposed incremental solution where the ultimate sanction of allowing OAs to force public auction of defaulting flats, naturally allowing the OAs to have service fees and expenses returned.

A simple solution may be to create the service fees as some form of mortgage backed by the banks. Owners that paid in time would not pay any interest. Defaulters would simply build up an ever increasing mortgage debt with the bank secured on their flat, until the bank felt it necessary to repossess and again auction to recover funds.


----------



## Towers3

Flintbug said:


> I guess RERA are dragging their feet as going legal is likely to open up a huge can of worms - apartment sizes & features not as sold, Sales & Purchase Agreements ignored, Force Majeure used as excuse for poor planning, cheating developers still controlling OAs.
> 
> The real answer is to tackle the far lower number of rogue developers before tackling the thousands of owners that each have a valid case to throw back if ever challenged in court.
> 
> My feeling is that RERA are concentrating on getting as much built as possible, spending everything that is in Escrow accounts and then expecting to muddle through to finish the majority of starts before, hopefully, disciplining developers.
> 
> With rogue developers off the scene and nowhere near OAs, then OAs will be more easily supportable by a RERA imposed incremental solution where the ultimate sanction of allowing OAs to force public auction of defaulting flats, naturally allowing the OAs to have service fees and expenses returned.
> 
> A simple solution may be to create the service fees as some form of mortgage backed by the banks. Owners that paid in time would not pay any interest. Defaulters would simply build up an ever increasing mortgage debt with the bank secured on their flat, until the bank felt it necessary to repossess and again auction to recover funds.


How do you know, RERA are using escrows? I thought the land department was holding them? How do they access investor's money which isn't there's? Do you have any evidence of this please? Bit of a scandal if so? Is this on projects, investors invested in or other projects?


----------



## Flintbug

The best example I have of RERA being involved in progressing a project according to the Escrow money would be Dubai Star in JLT. I'm sure I could find more. Pentominium also looks like a case of draining the escrow and then blaming the lack of progress on non-payment of instalments even though the developer looks like they have skipped the country.


----------



## Towers3

Flintbug said:


> The best example I have of RERA being involved in progressing a project according to the Escrow money would be Dubai Star in JLT. I'm sure I could find more. Pentominium also looks like a case of draining the escrow and then blaming the lack of progress on non-payment of instalments even though the developer looks like they have skipped the country.


Using money to cover losses so it will require more investment to complete which wasn't agreed in the contract or to be spent on a certain stage of the building which was arranged in a contract? For example when the building gets to 50%, 70%, release these funds? Or we need this money to just get to a certain completion 40% for example then we'll ask for more investment later b/c we don't know where the previous 40% investment has gone etc? Force de majeure etc 

Investors weren't told? Developers just asked and investor's money was released? 

Big difference and a big accusation? These buildings are on site? 

Any info greatly appreciated.


----------



## MarkWass

^^ Sadly it seems many of the posters on this thread (they know who they are) are more concerned about patting themselves on the back for having the apparent wisdom for making the correct investment decisions (in hindsight), at a random point in history, RATHER than being able to comment on the subject area of this thread. Methinks that unless they do stop self obsessing and consider the bigger picture, they may find that however 'wise' their investment decisions seemingly were, they may be in for a sharp reality shock, reflected in terms of demand and future market value for the product they bought..... unless the regulators can somehow be persuaded to start to regulate and help protect the market?


----------



## MarkWass

MarkWass said:


> ^^ Sadly it seems many of the posters on this thread (they know who they are)


Ok, maybe not 'many', but at least one???


----------



## UAE Investor

MarkWass said:


> Ok, maybe not 'many', but at least one???


Make that +1 ???

:nuts: :smug: :nuts:


----------



## MarkWass

UAE Investor said:


> Make that +1 ???
> 
> :nuts: :smug: :nuts:


^^ OK, neither 'many' nor 'one', but somewhere in between the two.:lol:

Of course there are some economic and logistical reasons why they haven't to date, but as long term potential of the market partly depends on sustained future investment from overseas sources, much of whom will now need to see some basic investor protection in place, and control of market players (developers) involvement in new or existing developments. That is not exactly rocket science, so still a little unclear why the authorities not thinking/planning for longer term by making a basic start on regulation and simplification of enforcement of existing laws?

Having loads of cases in the pipeline to go through the court process, not good for PR, market sentiment...


----------



## AppleMac

Today Buildings 1-4 of the Golden Mile were disconnected by DEWA - the *whole* building was cut off even those units who had paid service charges and DEWA fully. After several hours of complaints the water was turned back on - but for how long is anyone's guess.


----------



## UAE Investor

Load of sh--

Dubai Sanitation from Wikpedia: Amazingly, Dubai doesn't have a sewage
infrastructure to support its skyscrapers, including the world's tallest
building, the Burj Khalifa. Drivers said they'd been queuing for three days!
Unsurprising then, that many dump their loads into storm drains that lead
directly to the open sea. Tourists are warned of the risk of contracting
serious illnesses like typhoid and hepatitis if swimming on Dubai beaches.


http://www.boreme.com/posting.php?id=31361


----------



## AppleMac

UAE Investor said:


> Load of sh--


Old story - this was the case a few years ago at the height of the boom when Al-awir couldn't cope. It was solved by a new plant being built at Jebel Ali and a big hole in the ground being dug out in the desert. :lol:


----------



## Imre

AppleMac said:


> Today Buildings 1-4 of the Golden Mile were disconnected by DEWA - the *whole* building was cut off even those units who had paid service charges and DEWA fully. After several hours of complaints the water was turned back on - but for how long is anyone's guess.


What is the next step, DEWA will block the main entrance of the Palm Jumeirah?


----------



## UAE Investor

AppleMac said:


> Old story - this was the case a few years ago at the height of the boom when Al-awir couldn't cope. It was solved by a new plant being built at Jebel Ali and a big hole in the ground being dug out in the desert. :lol:


That big hole in the ground ,was it Oasis 2 in Dsc by any chance ? :lol:


----------



## Towers3

I love the sound of building work and view from CRW in the morning. 

Mark's right... Rents won't improve til then.


----------



## AppleMac

Palm residents left without water



> Dubai: Residents of Golden Mile 1 to 4 on the Palm Jumeirah were yesterday left without water for almost five hours due to non-payment of Dubai Electricity and Water Authority (Dewa) service charges.
> 
> “This morning we woke up without water,” Golden Mile 3 resident Dounia Baha told Gulf News.
> 
> “I had to go to a friend’s house so I could take a shower. I live alone in the house so I can’t imagine what it would be like for those who have children.
> 
> “I pay all my bills on time so Dewa has no right to deprive me of these services. I think this is their way of putting pressure on those who have not paid their service charges yet.”
> 
> Dewa officials have twice visited the up-market residential area in the past month with the intention of cutting off supply but the building management managed to get a reprieve on those occasions.
> 
> But on Dewa’s third visit yesterday, the supply was cut off at one meter.


----------



## AppleMac

UAE property developers reluctant to give up control to owners' associations 



> Developers are not “genuinely” trying to hand over building management to the owners association because of the financial gains associated with it, say experts.
> 
> “I don't think there is a genuine attempt being made to hand over to the owners. As other revenue streams dry up, developers see the opportunity of making a profit from service charges/interim owners association (IOA) so there is little incentive to register the owners association as required by the regulations,” Graham Yeates, Head of Owners Association Management, Cluttons, told Emirates 24/7.


----------



## Imre

_*Dubai to see 12,000 new homes come up by first half*_

*Asteco says emirate will see 10,700 new apartments and 1,300 new villas in next six months*

By Parag Deulgaonkar Published Sunday, December 11, 2011 









Office space supply will increase by 773,000 square metres, the report said (IMRE SOLT) :lol:

Dubai will witness release of only 10,700 apartments and 1,300 villas during the first half of 2012, taking the total supply to 408,500 apartments and 59,000 villas, respectively, according to Asteco Property Management.

The Dubai-based real estate consultancy, in a report released on Sunday, said it expects over 5,000 units to be released in developments such as Mirdiff, International City and Dubai Silicon Oasis in the next six months. The release, however, depends on construction schedules being adhered to.

Majority of the villas, nearly 800 units, will be delivered in Dubai Green Community and Dubai Investment Park.

In September, Jones Lang LaSalle said approximately 5,000 additional residential units were expected to be completed by the year-end, followed by around 27,000 new units to be delivered in 2012. This will take the total residential stock to around 358,000 units. Majority of the new supply over this period will be in Dubailand, Dubai Marina and Dubai Sports City.

Rents stabilise

According to Asteco, apartment rents have stabilised with only International City, registering a two per cent decline in the fourth quarter compared to the third quarter. Studio and one-bedroom apartments were currently available for Dh16,000 and Dh23,000 per annum, respectively.

As for Dubai Marina, average yearly rent for a one-bedroom apartment was Dh62,500 while a two-bedroom apartment was going for Dh80,000. Rents for one bedroom and two bedroom apartments on Palm Jumeirah were Dh90,000 and Dh120,000 pa, respectively.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...mes-come-up-by-first-half-2011-12-11-1.432208


----------



## AppleMac

> The release, however, depends on construction schedules being adhered to.


:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

Unless the these 10,000 units are being built by developers from another continent, history shows that this is not going to happen.


----------



## UAE Investor

AppleMac said:


> :bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:
> 
> Unless the these 10,000 units are being built by developers from another continent, history shows that this is not going to happen.


Surely this is just completion of existing stocks or have i miss read imre,s post ?

Dsc has about 10 apartment towers and some 300 + villas for completion also ,only last phase of victory heights being new to the market.


----------



## Towers3

UAE Investor said:


> Surely this is just completion of existing stocks or have i miss read imre,s post ?
> 
> Dsc has about 10 apartment towers and some 300 + villas for completion also ,only last phase of victory heights being new to the market.


Are the villas in DSC? Nice area though... 

Which Apartment Towers in DSC?


----------



## Towers3

UAE Investor said:


> Surely this is just completion of existing stocks or have i miss read imre,s post ?
> 
> Dsc has about 10 apartment towers and some 300 + villas for completion also ,only last phase of victory heights being new to the market.


The story has come from estate agents.


----------



## agod

I was looking for an article about the Dubai Escrow Accounts basically being dry, search the Papers will turn up many articles like this.

http://www.emirates247.com/eb247/co...ee-completion-of-a-project-2009-12-07-1.22088

A.


----------



## dxbshame

*Thieves at work*

Reservation contract made at Jamal Al Habtoor RE on a resale unit.
Unfortunately company owner died in car accident in Russia (??!!)
Deals war taken over by Habtoor Properties.
First they denied to have anything to do with the Palisades, but many clients had also bought (reserved) a resale by them following the taking over of the RE deals from Jamal Al Habtoor. Amounts paid range from 200,000 Aed to many millions of AED.
Part of these sums have been transferred to the One Real Estate. The owner Mr. Vakili is also owner of a Fund with which he reserved some buildings of this project (he is the reseller). The developer of the Palisades is Pearl Properties, the owner is a well known person, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issa_bin_Zayed_Al_Nahyan (royal family in Dubai).
These properties, since the beginning should have not been sold because of disputes between the property owner and the reseller. 
Habtoor Properties is part of business of a Habtoor family member which is related to Royal family in Dubai. Rera was of no help, given the implication of royal family members.
I have paid a consistent amount. I have not look to go to the courts, because it’s a kind of black mailing system, costraining unfortunate investors to pull out absurd amounts only to start a court case and feed many thousands of lawyers, well aware that the legal system in the UAE, related to RE issues is a farce. Investigate on how many people have seen back any money returned. This says it all. Spread the word around to force this illegal behaviour and this robbery to stop.


----------



## Towers3

agod said:


> I was looking for an article about the Dubai Escrow Accounts basically being dry, search the Papers will turn up many articles like this.
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/eb247/co...ee-completion-of-a-project-2009-12-07-1.22088
> 
> A.


Good article but its 2009, old news... The media want 'new' stories unfortunately. 

Where has the money gone? Is it still there? When are they going to release it? What if the money has gone?


----------



## MarkWass

agod said:


> I was looking for an article about the Dubai Escrow Accounts basically being dry, search the Papers will turn up many articles like this.
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/eb247/co...ee-completion-of-a-project-2009-12-07-1.22088
> 
> A.


Al, the situation re regulation / control of 'developers' involvement in new or existing developments, which could be partially translated into escrow or OA management is far worse than you can imagine my friend...


----------



## MarkWass

*http://www.arabianbusiness.com/value-of-uae-s-stalled-construction-projects-hits-958bn-434885.html*

*Value of UAE's stalled construction projects hits $958bn*


*By*Shane McGinley
· Tuesday, 13 December 2011 12:48 PM











Abu Dhabi has confirmed delays to two museums on its $27bn Saadiyat Island
The value of construction projects scrapped or on hold in the UAE soared to $958bn in the 12 months to October, Citigroup said Tuesday, signalling the Gulf state’s battered project market is still some way from recovery.
The Gulf country, which accounts for more than half of the stalled or cancelled projects in the MENA region, saw $20bn worth of developments added to the list over the last year.
More cancellations are likely as the UAE battles a fresh slowdown in infrastructure projects, Citi analysts said in the MENA construction projects tracker report.
“This is 80 percent weighted to delayed projects. Given the slowdown in this market we believe there is further risk of cancellations,” the report said.

The Gulf nation now has $604bn worth of projects planned or underway, a decline of 33 percent on the year-earlier period, Citigroup said. Just $14bn worth of new projects were announced in 2011, representing a 58 percent fall on the previous year.
The UAE's property boom ended in 2008, with home prices in the Dubai emirate plunging by about 60 percent, forcing many developers to abandon projects. More than half of the projects in Gulf country were scrapped or cancelled as project finance dried up.
Dubai developer Nakheel, which overstretched itself by building islands in the shape of palms and other ambitious projects, wrote off up to AED78.6bn ($21.4bn) of its real estate assets.
Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) said in May up to 500 property projects were facing the axe and around 90,000 units were ‘under review’.
More recently, a slowdown in Abu Dhabi’s construction market has alarmed the industry, which fears a reduction in spending in the oil-rich emirate could crimp any fledgling recovery in Dubai.
The UAE capital has pushed back the delivery of major projectsincluding its planned Louvre and Guggenheim museums, in a sign it may be feeling the pinch of its $500bn ‘2030’ plan.
Across the main MENA markets, Citigroup reported an average of 65 percent of projects were delayed and 35 percent cancelled.
Andrew Goodwin, director of real estate consultancy firm DTZ, said the UAE’s declining construction market could unnerve investors.
“The region is familiar with the reasons for the slowdown in UAE construction but we need to bring the proportion of ‘cancelled against on hold’ schemes in line with other countries before we will see real confidence in the market growing,” he said.
Citigroup said Saudi Arabia and Iraq had replaced the UAE as the region’s dominate construction market. Saudi, which has rolled out an ambitious $130bn state spending plan that promises in part to overhaul the country’s affordable housing market, has $648bn worth of projects in the pipeline, the report said. That represents a 90 percent increase on 2010.
Iraq, which is struggling to rebuild its infrastructure after the US-led invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein, awarded almost $17bn of projects in 2011, up from $10bn last year.
The country has $356bn worth of projects planned, the report said.
The building boom expected in Qatar to ready the emirate to host the 2022 World Cup has yet to materialise into projects on the ground, Citigroup said. The country has almost $214bn worth of construction projects planned, marking a 19 percent drop on last year, the report said.
The gas-rich country has also cancelled $7bn worth of projects in the last 12 months, raising the value of its cancelled and delayed projects four percent to $156bn
We would argue that this market has peaked and that growth will now slow,” the Citigroup report said.
In Kuwait, $4bn worth of projects was awarded, a decline of 56 percent year-on-year, bringing the total value of its pipeline to $83bn. “Kuwait has faced ongoing political issues which have stalled spending plans,” the report noted.
A review of construction firms showed Asian companies continued to dominate contract wins, with Samsung and Hyundai bidding for the biggest share of projects in the pipeline. Saipem and Al-Habtoor Leighton were also strong players in the region, the report said.


----------



## MarkWass

*http://www.arabianbusiness.com/developers-drag-their-heels-in-handover-owners-434812.html*

*Developers drag their heels in handover to owners*









*By*Claire Ferris-Lay
· Tuesday, 13 December 2011 8:58 AM


Dubai had 218 registered OAs at the end of August
Dubai developers are delayingregistering homeowners associations(OA) with the city’s real estate bodies in a bid to retain the revenue of service fees, industry experts said. 
Large-scale developers are failing to register paperwork with Dubai Land Department, allowing them to delay handing over the management of their properties to buyers, said Edward Sanders, director at Dubai building management firm, Place.
“There certainly are delays. Dubai has excellent legislation for joint ownership property but it’s not being enforced,” he said. “There is a perspective from developers that they’ll get around to it when it is being enforced.
“They think it’s a good idea to try and hold onto the development for as long as possible… because they think there is a revenue stream there or a benefit.”

Strata law, which entitles OAs to oversee the maintenance budgets and contracts of their properties, was decreed in 2007 but only implemented in May last year.
OAs must be registered with the Dubai Land Department [DLD] to allow them to open a bank account, pay bills and hire contractors to oversee building maintenance.
Arabian Business reported in August that interim OAs were Dubai were facing charges of up to AED15,000 ($4,038) a month from developers, in exchange for the company paying bills on their behalf while they waited for DLD approval.
Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) said in August there were 218 registered OAs in the emirate, a number that analysts said was low in comparison to the city’s property supply.
The watchdog said it expected a 70 percent rise in owner-managed properties by the year-end.
House prices in Dubai, the Gulf’s worst-performing market in the last three years, have fallen more than 60 percent from their peak in late-2008. Disputes over service fees have soared in the wake of the financial crisis, with buyers accusing developers of charging inflated fees to help temper slumping revenues in the property market.
In projects such as Nakheel’s Discovery Gardens and the Palm Jumeirah, default rates on service charges among homeowners are estimated to be as high as 50 percent.
A tenant in Nakheel’s Discovery Gardens told Arabian Business: “Nakheel appears to be doing everything possible to disrupt and delay the formation of the owners associations, which would enable responsible owners to take decisions about maintenance into their own hands.
“Red tape and recalcitrance are leaving owners who wish to safeguard their investment in the future of Dubai with their hands tied,” he added.
Developers may also be reluctant to register OAs due to their inexperience in managing properties, said Ron Hinchey, director of real estate consultancy Cluttons, UAE.
“Because the OA are acting on behalf of their owners there is a temptation for them to do things on the cheap. If you start managing buildings on the cheap there is a tendency, especially in this climate, for them to deteriorate quite quickly. If you are a big branded developer you will be reluctant to have the brand tainted in that way going forward.”
Smaller developers, struggling with cash flow, are more likely to push through registration, added Sanders. 
“We’re finding that the smaller developers…they are getting into financial difficulties because they are having to cash flow the developments so want to pass it over as fast as possible.”
RERA did not respond to calls made by Arabian Business.
Disputes over service charges are likely to continue as developers delay registration. Nakheel, the developer of the Palm Jumeirah, islocked in a dispute with tenants over its plan to privatise the Shoreline’s pools, gyms and beach. Homeowners argue they own the facilities.
“Nakheel have been delaying and postponing,” said one homeowner. It is not in their interest to speed it up because as soon as everyone is registered Nakheel will lose the business of managing the shoreline,” one home owner told Arabian Business.


----------



## mowy2611

Has anyone received an email to pay?

Last email I received was yesterday about reaching 31st slab


----------



## Ahmed N

mowy2611 said:


> Has anyone received an email to pay?
> 
> Last email I received was yesterday about reaching 31st slab


No, nothing yet. Got the same e-mail and one today. Looks like things are progressing, slowly but surely.

Any other news please share.......


----------



## cayman1

Anybody can tell me. mr shaarawy phone ? 
Thanks


----------



## Ahmed N

cayman1 said:


> Anybody can tell me. mr shaarawy phone ?
> Thanks


Best Regards
Mohamed El Shaarawy
Head of Real Estate External Relations

ACI Real Estate
Tel: +971-4-4478950 Ext-442
Fax: +971-4-4478948
Mob: +971-55-6459964
Email: [email protected]
Internet: www.acigroup.ae
_____________________________________

please let us know how you get on. ______________________________________________________________________


----------



## mowy2611

Interesting article guys.. People are taking legal action against ACI

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/aci-buyers-team-up-in-legal-bid-revive-celebrity-towers-435312.html

This was on the front page of Arabian Business


----------



## W40arx

We know that this is the case, and the clients that are filing the law suits are the ones that have invested in the other gimmick towers (Becker, Lauder, Schumacher etc) as they have no hope of turning into bricks and mortar! But what ACI are doing is that they are offering these clients a property in Dubai Star, as it is the only project being built. How are they able to do this? All the units are sold! They are doing this by handing over the contracts of the Dubai Star clients that fail to keep up to date with payments which voids their contract and therefore gives ACI the right to hand over the unit in question to the complainant to ease the pressure! 

If you investors have enough money to buy yourselves a holiday home in Dubai, then this means that you have money which ultimately means that you are intelligent enough to make that money. Therefore, we all need to use our intelligence and figure out for ourselves what the best course of action is! 

I have paid 80% so far so my situation is such that I have no choice but to pay! But what this means is that I have acted in accordance with the contract provided by ACI, never defaulted, giving me firmer ground, and a solid case if the whole project stops!

Everyone here knows their own circumstances, so act intelligently and do whatever benefits you. Please do not make any rash decisions that you may later regret. 

Kind regards

Waqar


----------



## mowy2611

Waqar, you are basically pushing us to pay because you've already paid 80% and the remaining payment you have is on completion. We all know if we don't pay the upcoming payment this project will stop, but again what guarantees for us that if we pay this money the project will go on? Why should I tie up more money into this apartment when I'm not certain of the outcome. 

We've fulfilled our part of the contract like you fully and ACI has so far screwed us in every way and Dishonored the contract. My request to ACI is to push all payments until completion and let the sort out their own mess. At the end of the day "supposedly" the money we're paying is going into an escrow account which ACI can't touch until the completion of the project so what difference does it make to the construction progress if we pay now or at the end of the project??


----------



## Porcello

mowy2611 said:


> Waqar, you are basically pushing us to pay because you've already paid 80% and the remaining payment you have is on completion. We all know if we don't pay the upcoming payment this project will stop, but again what guarantees for us that if we pay this money the project will go on? Why should I tie up more money into this apartment when I'm not certain of the outcome.
> 
> We've fulfilled our part of the contract like you fully and ACI has so far screwed us in every way and Dishonored the contract. My request to ACI is to push all payments until completion and let the sort out their own mess. At the end of the day "supposedly" the money we're paying is going into an escrow account which ACI can't touch until the completion of the project so what difference does it make to the construction progress if we pay now or at the end of the project??


Who told you that money in Escrow cannot be touched until completion? They will use the next payments to complete the tower....


----------



## Ahmed N

Porcello said:


> Who told you that money in Escrow cannot be touched until completion? They will use the next payments to complete the tower....


They can use the money in the Escrow Account. 

What I have been told is that ACI have no funds to complete the project for Dubai Star. Now that have reached the completion of the 30th floor, the investors that are due their next installments - this money will be paid into Escrow account, and ACI/ Developer will be able to have this money in stages ie. on completion of each floor - money to pay for materials and wages etc.

RERA are over seeing this project and upon completion of each stage - they will release more funds - only if funds are available.

If investors don't pay their due installments, then the units will be given to another investor from another project.

I have also paid 80% of the money, and all I can say is that if people don't pay then this will only delay the situation. I dont think anybody can guarantee that the project will be finish - we can only hope that ACI and RERA fullfill their duty to all of us and finish the tower and hand over ownership to us.

We are stuck in a corner - if we dont pay - then we will DEFINATELY loose / if we do pay we MAY loose.........


----------



## Imre

*FACTBOX-Key political risks to watch in the United Arab Emirates*

*Reuters*

Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:50pm GMT

DUBAI Dec 15 (Reuters) - The United Arab Emirates has so far escaped the upheaval that has rocked the Arab world, but the case of five activists convicted last month of insulting the country's rulers suggests the oil producing state is not immune to calls for reform.

UAE President Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed al-Nahayan pardoned the five last month, one day after a state security court sentenced them to prison terms ranging from two to three years.

But the case had been seen as a gauge of how the oil-producing Gulf Arab state, which allows no political parties, responds to hints of political dissent after uprisings toppled other Arab leaders.

The UAE is among the world's top five oil exporters and its small local population has one of world's highest per capita income, estimated at $66,625 in 2011, according to the IMF.

UAE security forces have moved swiftly to quell any attempt at dissent. The five activists went through a five-month trial before they were sentenced on Nov. 27, and a civil rights group was disbanded.

The emirate of Dubai, which built itself into a finance and trade hub only for its real estate bubble to burst in 2008-09, faces possible debt refinance and investor flight risks.

There are lingering worries about Iran's nuclear programme, a long-running territorial row with Tehran, and Islamist radicalism.

*Below are some of the risks facing the UAE:*

*DOMESTIC UNREST*

The probability of domestic protests in the UAE is widely viewed as lower than in other Arab states due to the country's small indigenous population and huge oil wealth, especially in the emirates of Dubai and Abu Dhabi, where the federal capital is located.

But Emirati activists have been calling on the Internet for a greater say in government, legislative powers for the 40-member Federal National Council (FNC) and less censorship.

UAE rulers increased the number of hand-picked voters for FNC elections held in September to 129,000 -- or about 25 percent of would-be eligible voters -- but did not grant the council binding legislative power.

In December, the UAE set up a 10 billion dirham ($2.7 billion) fund to help pay low-income citizens' debts and announced plans to raise wages of some state employees, which may support its economy but also increase the fiscal burden.

Any unrest would likely emerge in one of the five northern emirates, whose citizens have benefited less from Abu Dhabi's vast oil wealth or Dubai's trade - and property-fuelled development. Northern emirate Ras al-Khaimah has seen small protests, quickly crushed by security forces.

But even there, oil-rich Abu Dhabi is spending billions of dollars to improve the living conditions in these less developed emirates.

- Will the government grant the FNC more powers?

- Increased public debates over political reform

- Widespread arrests that could trigger local protests


*DUBAI DEBT AND FINANCIAL WOES*

The UAE economy is expected to grow by around 3.8 percent in 2011, according to a Reuters poll in September, up from 1.4 percent in 2010 when Dubai struggled to restructure its debts.

Dubai's finances remain a concern after the global financial crisis burst its property bubble, shelving multi-billion dollar projects and leading to thousands of job cuts in 2008-09. But its economy has picked up.

The emirate rattled markets in 2009 when Dubai World , one of the government's three flagship holding companies, sought a delay in repaying $26 billion of debt linked mainly to property units Nakheel and Limitless.

Abu Dhabi, home to most of the UAE federation's oil wealth, lent Dubai $10 billion, helping avert default on a bond issued by Nakheel. Dubai World and Nakheel have both reached agreements to restructure about $41 billion in debt.

The emirate launched its second bond issue since the debt crisis in June, issuing a $500 million, 10-year bond.

Investors are still worried about Dubai's debt troubles and the crisis has strained relations with the wealthier but more staid Abu Dhabi, which is itself tightening the purse in its territory and shelving non-essential projects.

The two emirates have shared the financial and political reins of the UAE since its inception in 1971, but further assistance to Dubai could boost Abu Dhabi's role and upset the delicate power balance.


*WHAT TO WATCH:*

- Will Dubai's government-linked firms be able to make their debt repayments?

- Will Abu Dhabi have to intervene again to meet any Dubai debt obligations?


*REGIONAL ISLAMIST MILITANCY*

The UAE has so far been spared any attack by al Qaeda. But Dubai, a business and tourism centre that attracts many Westerners, could make an attractive target for Islamist militants.

In 2009, al Qaeda's Yemeni and Saudi branches merged into a Yemen-based regional arm. They claimed responsibility for a failed plot in October 2010 to send two parcel bombs to the United States that were intercepted in Britain and Dubai.

Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) has threatened attacks on Westerners in the region and has said it sees the UAE as its fourth target after the United States, Saudi Arabia and Britain.

UAE's tight security may have helped it prevent attacks.


*WHAT TO WATCH:*

- Any expansion of al Qaeda attacks in the region could put other Gulf countries, including the UAE, at risk.


*IRAN ESCALATION, SANCTIONS*

The strategic Gulf Arab region could be affected if the dispute between Iran and Western powers over Tehran's nuclear programme escalates into armed conflict.

A recent U.N. nuclear watchdog's report suggested Iran's nunclear programme could have a military nature. Tehran denies this.

Following the report, Britain and the United States introduced tougher sanctions on the Iran, but the UAE's foreign minister said on Nov. 30 his country only supported U.N.-imposed sanctions and it was up to private sector companies to choose whether to abide by other sanctions.

Dubai has strong trade links with Iran.

A leaked U.S. diplomatic cable said leaders of the UAE regarded Iran as "its primary external threat, and one that is existential in nature".

The same cable portrayed Abu Dhabi's crown prince, one of the most powerful figures in the UAE, as holding the view that "the logic of war" dominates in the Gulf Arab region when it comes to dealing with the Iranian challenge.

A recent New York Times article described in detail how the crown prince recruited Blackwater founder Erik Prince to build up an 800-member battalion of troops for the UAE.

The UAE's extensive purchases of U.S. arms, and facilities it offers to the U.S. military, could make it a potential target for revenge if the nuclear dispute spirals into military conflict.

*WHAT TO WATCH:*

- Any signs the Iran nuclear dispute could turn into a military conflict.

- More sanctions on Iran, a major Dubai trade partner, could affect a recovering UAE economy. (Compiled by Mahmoud Habboush)

http://af.reuters.com/article/energ...15?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true


----------



## W40arx

Mowy, I'm in no way using any threatening terminology nor holding a knife to your throat, forcing or "pushing" you to hand over your hard earned cash! As in my last comment, I merely asked investors to use their intellect and for them to do what they think is best, so please accept my apologies as I may have affected you on an emotional scale! 

I'm not the only investor that has paid the majority of the money owed but I have purchased one of the most expensive units in the tower which in today's climate is bloody expensive and becoming a struggle to pay for, but I will be paying the next instalment in hope of a completed product!


----------



## Towers3

I Know said:


> Didnt take long to pay back the money once they lost the case :banana:
> 
> A Spanish investor won a court order to seize the head offices of Emaar Properties, builders of the world’s tallest tower, after its subsidiary failed to deliver an AED5.3m ($1.4m) villa on time, his lawyer has claimed.
> 
> Good news, I thought the court was only awarding money unless it would stay in the UAE.


----------



## Wac

GROUND BREAKING NEWS AFTER 4 YEARS OF DOOM AND GLOOM FOR INVESTORS.

Court of Cassation (Final Instance) awarded an investor a court order an to SEIZE EMAAR's HQ.....upon which EMAAR IMMEDIATELY REFUNDED THE INVESTOR.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/buyer...html?message=3


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Imre said:


> Depends on the tenancy contract , always should include something like this:
> 
> "The Tenant and the Landlord have to submit in advance 60 days written notice before the expiry of tenancy contract for vacating or renewal of the tenancy contract. "


If the contract does not include that then I understand that the local law says that the landlord must give 12 months notice if they plan to sell the property and require it to be vacant. I would imagine that if there are 3 or 4 months left of a tenants annual rental contract remaining and they are given a 12 months notice at that point, then they would likely leave of their own accord and look for a new place to rent at the end of their existing contract, rather than live with the knowledge that they must vacate 8 or 9 months into a new contract.


----------



## True Blue

^^Don't think that 12 months notice for vacant possession is true. You can only ask a tenant to leave if you or your family are going to move into it and probably sell it. The rent council will back a tenant who wants to stay on and the tenancy contract then automatically renews with all the terms as before. This has never been a problem in the past as rents have decreased meaning the landlord will benefit from maintaining the same rent. 

2 years ago when I had a problem with a bad tenant I was told that i can not put him out if he pays the same rent for the following year as is mentioned in the old contract. If the tenant sees you readvertising the unit at a higher price then he can take you to the tribunal for compensation or be reinstated.

Rather than go through this all again, i have agreed to allow my good tenant to renew at the same rate as last year even though I feel I could get about 10% more in the current market. A void period could wipe out that marginal increase.


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> If the contract does not include that then I understand that the local law says that the landlord must give 12 months notice if they plan to sell the property and require it to be vacant. I would imagine that if there are 3 or 4 months left of a tenants annual rental contract remaining and they are given a 12 months notice at that point, then they would likely leave of their own accord and look for a new place to rent at the end of their existing contract, rather than live with the knowledge that they must vacate 8 or 9 months into a new contract.


You right:

LAW NO. (33) OF 2008

*" landlord must notify tenant with reasons for eviction at least twelve months prior to the determined date of eviction subject that such notice be sent through the Notary Public or by registered mail."*

It was never problem when the rent falling but can be a problem when the rent prices increasing again , thats why better to put on the contract 60 days only 

This happening nowadays , people using the standard tenancy contract form from stationery ( without any addendum) , at the end of the day they will realise its good for nothing ,if there is any problems.


----------



## Ahmed N

Hi All. 
Its seems that quite a few investors are reluctant to make payments. This is the reply I got from ACI this morning - they will persue for the money and go the the legal process to claim money due from investors......things are now delayed, until the payment situation has been resolved. here is the reply.

"Activity on site very minimum waiting for serious clients to pay and they normally do after 3rd payment reminder which will be due on Jan 12th with 7 days grace period !! After that I will report their name to DLD for their advice and action!!

We already received few payment which is a good sign but not sufficient for good progress!!

Thanks 
Empower your Business with BlackBerry® and Mobile Solutions from Etisalat"


----------



## True Blue

^^A 12 month tenancy contract can be deemed to be 12 months notice of eviction. That is why they run 12 months at a time, probably to comply with this regulation.


----------



## bister

Porcello said:


> Dubai Star is not owned anymore by ACI, but by the legitimate buyers. Only units still owned by ACI can be seized.


Correct but dont forget the common areas, land and future revenues for services


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> ^^Don't think that 12 months notice for vacant possession is true. You can only ask a tenant to leave if you or your family are going to move into it and probably sell it. The rent council will back a tenant who wants to stay on and the tenancy contract then automatically renews with all the terms as before. This has never been a problem in the past as rents have decreased meaning the landlord will benefit from maintaining the same rent.
> 
> 2 years ago when I had a problem with a bad tenant I was told that i can not put him out if he pays the same rent for the following year as is mentioned in the old contract. If the tenant sees you readvertising the unit at a higher price then he can take you to the tribunal for compensation or be reinstated.
> 
> Rather than go through this all again, i have agreed to allow my good tenant to renew at the same rate as last year even though I feel I could get about 10% more in the current market. A void period could wipe out that marginal increase.


I feel your heartache as I very recently had the same issue. I could get another 15k but can only increase by 5% and at the same time can't vacate the tenant due to the risk of tenant taking to tribunal. On the plus side though he says he wants to stay long term. Also vacating means void periods and costs.


----------



## Porcello

bister said:


> Correct but dont forget the common areas, land and future revenues for services


Common areas and land plot of Dubai Star are also owned by the buyers. Future revenue for the services... yes, but it's future, so it does not exist yet.

Good luck anyway, I hope you manage to get your money back.


----------



## MANUTD

bister said:


> Dear All,
> 
> Look at this GROUND BREAKING NEWS on legal disputes on property.
> 
> Court of Cassation (final instance) ruled to seize Emaars HQ which prompted an immediate refund. They ruled AGAINST EMAAR AND FORCED THEM TO REFUND!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> My friend is at Cassation with ACI and will get a ruling next week and I will get the same in a few months having won a full refund at the first two instances. A concern for you guys is that we if succesful in Cassation can seize any ACI assets...including land, offices and buildings (such as Dubai Star....).
> 
> Stay tuned.


Are there seizable assets though ?

RERA seem to control this project now ? 

I am owed £40k in WINGS OF ARABIA but have written it off as a bad job rather than chuck more legal money at it :cheers:


----------



## Imre

Good news:

*His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum*

رزقني الله والأميرة هيا بمولود جديد أسميناه زايد .. جعله الله مولود خير وبارك فيه ان شاء الله.

Princess Haya and I were blessed with a baby boy ... We named him "Zayed"

https://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/HHSheikhMohammed/posts/10150512251182908


----------



## Ahmed N

Imre said:


> They stopped again, no construction going on there..



Its all on hold - this is beacause they are awaiting payments from investors. ACI have confirmed that they have had only 26 investors who have confirmed they will not be making payments - that's out of 565 .........that's not a high number.

They have not confirmed how many investors have made payment - I know I have.........


So, until all the money have been paid by investors - things will be on hold. The next deadline date is 12th January I have been told. Then investors that have not paid will be sent a letter by RERA.

So - guys pay up or........we all stand to loose otherwise.

I dont understand why they have to stop construction.


----------



## 234sale

lol


----------



## gerald.d

Imre said:


> Good news:
> 
> *His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum*
> 
> رزقني الله والأميرة هيا بمولود جديد أسميناه زايد .. جعله الله مولود خير وبارك فيه ان شاء الله.
> 
> Princess Haya and I were blessed with a baby boy ... We named him "Zayed"
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/HHSheikhMohammed/posts/10150512251182908


Not bad going for a 62 year old. Not bad at all.


----------



## bister

MANUTD said:


> Are there seizable assets though ?
> 
> RERA seem to control this project now ?
> 
> I am owed £40k in WINGS OF ARABIA but have written it off as a bad job rather than chuck more legal money at it :cheers:


Well, one should think that the units still owned by ACI (or units going back to ACI due non-payment) should be seizable. I dont think has actual ownership of anything and it surprises me that the investors own the plot, when did that happen?

Yes, 40 grand may not worth it. You are down AED150-200 grand before you can execute assuming ACI appeals all the way, which they have done in various cases and which seem to indicate that they have assets to protect. Wishful thinking maybe, however one can only speculate.


----------



## bister

I was refering to RERA not having actual ownership


----------



## Porcello

bister said:


> Well, one should think that the units still owned by ACI (or units going back to ACI due non-payment) should be seizable. I dont think has actual ownership of anything and it surprises me that the investors own the plot, when did that happen?
> 
> Yes, 40 grand may not worth it. You are down AED150-200 grand before you can execute assuming ACI appeals all the way, which they have done in various cases and which seem to indicate that they have assets to protect. Wishful thinking maybe, however one can only speculate.


If I'm not wrong, in Dubai freehold the individual buyers own an undivided share of the land above which the property is built, so that if the property is destroyed the owners have the right to build it again. In Abu Dhabi leasehold they don't.


----------



## Parisian Girl

*40 Tecom towers to be completed early this year in Dubai*



> By Parag Deulgaonkar | Published Sunday, January 08, 2012
> 
> At least 40 new buildings will be completed in master developments supervised by the Dubai Technology and Media Free Zone Authority (DTMFZA), aka Known as Tecom Zoning Authority, by early this year, Emirates24|7 can reveal.


 http://www.emirates247.com/business...-early-this-year-in-dubai-2012-01-08-1.436266


----------



## AndyH

Imre said:


> *Separate meters mean Dubai tenants will soon have to pay chiller charges*


This is a much more practical solution. Our tower has individual PDC and DEWA meters and no issues so far, whereas some of those with a single meter for the whole building and getting disconnected for non-payment. Plus the additional admin required to work out payments fairly and ensure you have enough SC income to cover it must be a nightmare.


----------



## noir-dresses

Just read that article in another newspaper.

Easy credit seems to be the same carrot to all the falls.


----------



## johnnyinspain

Remember what we have been saying for a while now about the market within the Marina maturing and fragmenting.

As I have said before, I think the "supertall" area will have a similar problem to that in JBR, with apartments not selling or renting at any price, especially as the new towers in that area come on-stream.

Precise location, build quality and developer becomes far more important as buyers and tenants become educated......

Trust me, the PRIME area in the Marina will become the area between Marina Mall and Waves on the Marina Mall side. Anything in that area that is good with a panoramic view will become sought after in the longer term.



True Blue said:


> *Dubai Marina Handovers in 2012*
> 
> I have been thinking about the amount of handovers in 2012 and it occurs to me that this could be one of the busiest years for property handovers.
> 
> Definately handing over;
> 
> Silverene
> Botanica
> Orra Marina
> Bay Central (assuming the East Tower does not need to be finished)
> 23 Marina
> Princess Tower
> Elite Residence
> 
> Possibly Handing over;
> 
> Infinity
> Atlantic
> 
> Roughly 4500 units on the way in 2012. Could cause rental and resale prices to stutter, however there is very little in the pipeline after this year (good news for JBR landlords).
> 
> Has me wondering if we will see prices rise after 2012 and head towards the heady heights of 2008.:dunno:


----------



## agod

Let the Government buy and finish many of the Buildings that are unfinished, and turn them into affordable Social Housing.

Like great big Coucil Flats, could cure a lot of problems, Investors paid back, or can take possesion, low paid workers at the moment, are being evicted from the villas, that are partioned out, and packed out, with them.

Maids I know pay 2000 a month just for a room, with 4 girls, one two bed Apartment could take four of them, and the Government could charge a reasonable rent, it could also check on there residency status, and cure the villa problem.

Any Comments?


a.


----------



## smussuw

^^ Maids I know live with their sponsors, food and accommodation for free, anything otherwise is illegal


----------



## Imre

agod said:


> Maids I know pay 2000 a month just for a room, with 4 girls, one two bed Apartment could take four of them, and the Government could charge a reasonable rent, it could also check on there residency status, and cure the villa problem.
> 
> Any Comments?
> 
> 
> a.


I agree, Palm Jebel Ali also would be great for them :lol:

*More than 65,000 illegal maids arrested in the UAE last year*

Illegal entrants face 2 months' jail and a fine of Dh100,000 while their employers face a Dh50,000 fine

By StaffPublished Wednesday, January 11, 2012 

UAE authorities apprehended more than 65,000 domestic servants staying illegally in the country in 2011 as part of an intensified crackdown intended to curb labour and immigration offences.


http://www.emirates247.com/crime/lo...sted-in-the-uae-last-year-2012-01-11-1.437062


----------



## agod

Yes thats my point, 60.000 where lifted last year, why not let work Legally, coming over on a proper visa, work permit, and doing part time work, paying enormous sums to Sponsors, who deny they exist when ask by the Police, let the Government pocket the money instead.

http://www.newzglobe.com/article/20120111/danger-maid-illegality


a.


----------



## True Blue

Deporting 60,000 maids is likely to cause rampant wage inflation. No wonder there are so many tubby maids in Dubai. Next they will be hanging out in Barasti.


----------



## AppleMac

agod said:


> Let the Government buy and finish many of the Buildings that are unfinished, and turn them into affordable Social Housing.


With what? - the Government is broke


----------



## True Blue

AppleMac said:


> With what? - the Government is broke


Can't be! they are building a second runway at the marina airport out in the middle of the sea and just took delivery of $5million worth of new aircraft, not to mention the money wasted on the fancy new entrance road and landscaping for a hobby of the Sheikhs son. Money is no problem apparently until it comes to using the investors money for the purposes that it was meant for ie building the Nakheel projects that have lay dormant for years.


----------



## MarkWass

I don't get it. Sheikh Mohammed was / is one of the worlds most innovative visionaries. That is without doubt. And a powerful and respected chap. But in the interests of safeguarding the future, why, oh why, does he not simply tell his govt and agencies to 'fast track' remedial regulation and control of all the hundreds of dodgy developers at play?


----------



## MarkWass

^^ for example, could he not say to Marwan @ RERA: hey Marwan buddy,*you're in charge of the Real Estate Regulatory Authority, perhaps you might like to consider starting to 'regulate' the RE market??


----------



## Imre

True Blue said:


> Can't be! they are building a second runway at the marina airport out in the middle of the sea and just took delivery of $5million worth of new aircraft, not to mention the money wasted on the fancy new entrance road and landscaping for a hobby of the Sheikhs son. Money is no problem apparently until it comes to using the investors money for the purposes that it was meant for ie building the Nakheel projects that have lay dormant for years.


Thats totally different story, money is always available for hobbies, palaces , horses etc.. it doesnt mean that the government has unlimited fund.
Problems still exist , billions of dollar was invested (maybe wasted) for infrastructure for Waterfront,PJA,Dubailand,Bawadi etc.. and the value of the land(plots) almost zero there now but can be a good value again after 10-20 years or later.


----------



## Imre

MarkWass said:


> ^^ for example, could he not say to Marwan @ RERA: hey Marwan buddy,*you're in charge of the Real Estate Regulatory Authority, perhaps you might like to consider starting to 'regulate' the RE market??


They try to regulate the market , the RERA is only "Regulatory Authority" , they should have more power.
Just have a look the story with the Nakheel in Palm Jumeirah, RERA said its illegal but whats happened after?


----------



## AppleMac

MarkWass said:


> I don't get it. Sheikh Mohammed was / is one of the worlds most innovative visionaries. That is without doubt. And a powerful and respected chap. But in the interests of safeguarding the future,* why, oh why, does he not simply tell his govt and agencies to 'fast track' remedial regulation and control of all the hundreds of dodgy developers at play?*


Because he personally owns the big ones


----------



## glover

there is a clear conflict of interest here that cannot be reconciled. the government is a major investor in the real estate market, it's holdings represents maybe 70-80% of the market. how would anyone expect them to crackdown on developers when government developers are the biggest offenders!!!


----------



## True Blue

glover said:


> there is a clear conflict of interest here that cannot be reconciled. the government is a major investor in the real estate market, it's holdings represents maybe 70-80% of the market. how would anyone expect them to crackdown on developers when government developers are the biggest offenders!!!


Exactly! So Sheikh Mo is saying to Marwan, "get this malfunctioning real estate market in order at any cost and save our reputation" and also saying to Lootah, "get this developer Nakheel back on track and making money within a year, or else". So it becomes a battle between RERA and Nakheel, both government controlled entities. Who will win? Which one is the commercial organisation?


----------



## Philippa C

We have a bit of a messy situation with a rental property and would appreciate some advice.


----------



## Imre

Philippa C said:


> We rented out a unit but were a bit mislead by the agent and only came to know when it came to sign the lease that it was to an agency that will sublet the apartment. As we needed the money, we signed with some reservations. The unit was rented partially furnished and still does not have a tenant although we have received payment from the agency.


Have you rented the unit with subleasing agreement with 4 payments and 15 days grace period ?


----------



## Philippa C

It was with 4 cheques but not sure about the grace period, I'd have to check. The company's initials are MW RE. Do you know the company? It's past the grace period now in any case. Thanks for replying.


----------



## Imre

done


----------



## UAE Investor

Here an example of one that did....



> Sportman/
> Tough call.... I have similar situation. Walked on it... Two apartments, slightly less of a potential loss but still huge and paid down 50% to a developer in India and Pakistan. No contact, no recourse. Be throwing good money after bad....Sad and infuriating ending, but you have to make a decision and move on.
> 
> If it was another development, there might be some chance of recuperation. DSC is not that development IMO. Parking lots full of half build, partially constructed. Finished buildings will receive horrible rental income, due to the lack of pretty much anything other than views of exposed steel and concrete. No canal, no shops, no retail, no stadiums, nothing of what was envisioned. You might recoup your losses in 10+ years, and that's a very big if...
> 
> Unless your minted and you can afford the risk, I would walk...


----------



## Stephendxb2

*Further payments*

Enakouzi 

In reply to the question for further payment. You do not need to pay anything further. The developer must have an approved RERA construction based plan. Ask for a copy.
Investor protection laws will be coming very soon...


----------



## Towers3

UAE Investor said:


> Here an example of one that did....


Don't


----------



## W40arx

Rakeshdxb, it cannot be assumed that not many people are paying...there are hundreds of clients at Dubai Star and only around 10 people are active on this site! Are you in contact with the other customers? If so then please give a concise list of people that have or haven't paid.

Regards

Waqar


----------



## Towers3

BluMirageRAKMug

This is


----------



## Rakeshdxb

Waqar, You're too quick to judge! Even my flat is above the 30th floor.

I'm not really aware how many people are paying and how many aren't. That is why, I thought why not try and get together others.

My thoughts were that there could be investors who are not going to pay, come what may because of financial or other reasons. In that case, how long is RERA / ACI gonna wait before constructing the rest of the building. I think you are aware that the building is gonna be constructed only from the money that investors pay. If they don't, this bldg. won't go ahead. 

Going from 26 to 30 has taken 2 years. I can't imagine how long is it gonna take to finish this building.


----------



## mrs orchid

kevin_1980in said:


> I had filed a case towards refund of my investments. I did obtain a judgement but each time the matter went for appeal. The Supreme court of Dubai has now made a final judgement in my favor:banana:.
> 
> If anyone needs more information, let me know.
> 
> Kev


Hi Kev
I would be most grateful for the name/email of the lawyer please. What did they charge please. My email is [email protected]. I am also going to take Schon to Court asap. Had enough and need to get rid of the stress. Thanks, hope to hear asap. Will keep you posted.


----------



## I Know

Lawyers said the ruling may encourage other litigants to use the DIFC courts to pursue alleged infractions that occurred in Dubai or elsewhere in the United Arab Emirates, but outside the DIFC, just as in the Barclays case. Some litigants may prefer taking their cases to the DIFC as opposed to the local courts because its rules are based on the English system and proceedings are conducted in English.

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/201...re-cases-after-barclays-ruling/#ixzz1kZimHxe6


----------



## I Know

Sanctions spur surge of Iranians buying luxury homes in Dubai

http://www.albawaba.com/sanctions-spur-surge-iranians-buying-luxury-homes-dubai-410339


----------



## I Know

No news on property visa holding back investors

http://www.emirates247.com/property...sa-holding-back-investors-2012-01-26-1.439605


----------



## Ahmed N

Hi ALL

Here is an up-date from me. 

I recieved an e-mail from Mr El Sharaawy. 

He confirmed the monies are coming through each day on a regular basis. There are a number of buyers who have confirmed that they will not be making payments - but the majority are paying!!! non payers will be receiving payment demands very soon and stand to loose their investment/ money.

There is a problem on construction for the whole of JLT and not just Dubai Star. His words where

"Work is not going on now in full speed/activity as DMCC instructions because of the promenade and playing area they did and they asked for some new security measures which we did and waiting for their inspection team approvals to restart core work, this apply to all buildings under construction in JLT not only us"

He also added

"client review with RERA if he need to pay or not and they informed him that he should do and he was informed that with or without ACI or with or without him as investor the building will go ahead,, and if investors will not pay RERA will have their way to continue the building with other serious investors, they also confirmed that they are controlling all collections in Escrow and no body on earth can drew a penny without their approval!!

so, chaps - I have made my payment and I hope others will do so also.

I am like many others paying interest on a mortgage - and would like this project finished and my keys to my apartment.


----------



## mowy2611

Hi Ahmed, I met with Shaarawy and I got a different message... Less than 20% have paid so far.. After my discussion with him I told him I will wait for RERAs official warning before I pay..


----------



## camelrider

hi,

sometime in early 2009 I had received a 'FLOOR PLAN' for an extended JVT Independent Villa....

I also had an email from a Nakheel Customer Service Agent, where she confirmed that an extension is POSSIBLE, but needs to be dealt it TRAKHEES!

Now what & how much the charges, permissions or whatever is required WILL be, dunno.. never really chased it.....

Good luck


----------



## 1288673

Hi! Mr.orchid: Please add me in. I am also planning to go to the court. My email add. [email protected]. Maybe we can get back our money. Thanks. Waiting for your reply.


----------



## W40arx

What was his response to your instruction?


----------



## Androider

Would of been much better if they borrowed money from Government, finish the project and then DEMAND for payments before handover.

I have payed 70% total.

Owner of 4201.
102k are pending now and 204k on handover.

I mean come on, i can buy a studio for 400k in Saba 3 and live happily there...


----------



## mowy2611

He told me that it's my right to do so. he also informed me that RERA will no longer immediately send the 30 day payment notice. Instead they will send a one week notice to allow the investor to come in and discuss the reasons why he hasn't paid. After that week they will then send the 30-day notice.

I discussed with him the options ACI has today with the current reluctance of people wanting to pay. He said we'll either shorten the tower and re-allocate the units, which I told him is not possible because if I bought an apartment on the 40th floor I wouldn't accept that I'm moved to a lower floor. He said that yes thats why most probably they will go with option 2 where they will bring in investors from the stalled projects (Boris Becker, Michael Schumacher...etc) and give them units in Dubai Star given that they continue paying like us, which I also think is bullshit as there are certain rules when it comes to revoking an investors contract which I've mentioned in an earlier post and i HIGHLY doubt ACI is ready to return any money to any investor

I'm happy we are where we are as I told Shaarawy you need to give something to the investors. Somthing that will rest their minds and encourage them to continue with ACI (my recommendation was to push all payments to completion, he said thats not possible as they need the money to build). 

Conclusion: we're in one crappy shit hole


----------



## Imre

*RERA approves Oceana community service charge*

*Stakeholders of Oceana Residence agree after a thorough internal process and commitment to transparency - AED17.50 per square foot*

As issues concerning the transparency and breakdown of service charges across the emirate’s property market continue to fuel debate amongst owners and developers, Asteco Property Management reports that Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA) has approved the 2012 service charge budget for its Oceana residential and resort community on The Palm Jumeirah, Dubai.

Commenting on the announcement, John Stevens, Director, Asteco Property Management, said: “This is not the first complex in the city to receive approval, but as a mixed-use resort community with multiple facets, naturally we are pleased to conclude this issue with the full cooperation and involvement of the Interim Owners Association Board.

“In order to reach the final budget figure we had to detail the expenses for all of the buildings within the development, calculate the applicable fees for the communal areas and also the proportion of services utilised by the hotel and commercial elements, compared to the residential units,” he added.

To ensure that owners across the different asset classes of the community are being treated with parity, Asteco Property Management retendered all building services, which included detailed negotiations with the relevant sub-contracted companies, in order to present a mutually acceptable budget figure of AED17.50 per square foot. Compared to the previous figure there is a 30% reduction and the budget figure is in line with similar developments on the Palm Jumeirah.

http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2012/01/palm-jumeirah-dubai-rera-approves.html


----------



## montranieri

be careful at scam people sayng they got back their money. do not give money away to people you do not know well


----------



## W40arx

Well put my son!!!


----------



## Sid

Imre said:


> *RERA approves Oceana community service charge*
> 
> *Stakeholders of Oceana Residence agree after a thorough internal process and commitment to transparency - AED17.50 per square foot*
> 
> http://imresolt.blogspot.com/2012/01/palm-jumeirah-dubai-rera-approves.html


Hi Imre, hope you're keeping well. Do you know if this includes chiller charges?


----------



## UAE Investor

Re fund for investors ..


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/palm-spring-buyers-net-100-refund-from-damac-442433.html


----------



## Towers3

UAE Investor said:


> Re fund for investors ..
> 
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/palm-spring-buyers-net-100-refund-from-damac-442433.html


Well done TLG, two in a row. 

http://www.constructionweekonline.c...-of-appeal-drama-for-damac-project-investors/


----------



## I Know

Tenants' rights in the spotlight as real estate disputes surge 

Tenants rights have been in the spotlight in recent months, following the high-profile dispute between Nakheel and residents in its luxury Shoreline apartments over access to the property’s beach clubs.

In the weeks since, rows over cooling fees, unpaid service charges and building lockouts have demonstrated how – in disputes between developers and landlords, tenants can lose out.

So what are your rights when it comes to renting real estate in the UAE? How much can a property agent charge you? What should you look for in a rental contract?
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/tenants-rights-in-spotlight-as-real-estate-disputes-surge-442759.html


----------



## TerryPop

*
POSTING THIS HERE TO SHOW HOW MUCH REVENUE NAKHEEL IS ABOUT TO PULL IN... THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE START OF ITS CLAWBACK (from the brink)*




Hope this is useful (taken from an investor update Newsletter):

Security camera's and access cards are coming to Discovery Gardens in the next few weeks.

Unpaid service charges are going to mean your tenants face a lock out- Nakheel is not going to back down on this (apparently it is 100% backed by all authorities)

The only reason the access card system is not in place already (as planned) is due to an argument with the company who won the tender.

This tender has been re-assigned and is due middle to end of feb.

Uniformed concierge/staff for each building (one per building) will be standard from Feb 15th.

Pools are set to open with a pay to play system, and all buildings will be audited for integrity/ necessary works.

Individual Cooling metres ARE going to be installed this year- and tender is out now for the works.




What to do if you have not received a request for payment from Nakheel

If you have not received correspondance regarding service charges from Nakheel you need to fill out a "customer information sheet".

It is likely that Nakheel have the previous owners details or the original building owners details- either way YOU need to contact Nakheel and update them using the Nakheel 'customer information sheet'.

Service charges including unlimited cooling (while metres remain uninstalled) are approx 19,000 for a 1 bed and 9,000 for a studio.

You will be incurring monthly penalties regardless since November 2011.

These are around 200 aed per month and show on the invoice as 'late fee's'.



There were alot of people in Nakheel paying up and trying to dispute the late charges but the guys said they would not budge.


Hope this is useful to owners 


TP


----------



## TerryPop

*Nakheel*

If there are 250 buildings in Discovery gardens (i'm not sure exact amt) Nakheel are going to be pulling in around 300,000,000 dirhams.

Anyone know how much was/is coming in through the shoreline?

Rgdless of whether service fees or justified are not..These sorts of figures are staggering when you think about it!


----------



## I Know

*International City overcrowded, badly maintained, residents say*

It was built to be a green, affordable, friendly neighbourhood, but these days residents say International City is overcrowded, badly maintained and beset with traffic problems.

"I came here four years ago and it was very decent and calm," said Malek Sarieddine, 29 from Lebanon, who lives in the France cluster. "There were very few people living here then. It's not like that any more. Now it's very, very crowded."

Mr Sarieddine said in the past year he had seen a rapid rise in the population of International City, as thousands of low-income workers and taxi drivers moved in from labour camps.

"There's only one main entrance and exit and every morning there's traffic jams," he said.

Rents have fallen by about 55 per cent. At their peak in 2008, a studio flat went for about Dh40,000 a year. Now it can be as low as Dh18,000.

The area has been flooded with blue-collar workers who often break the rules on the number of people who can share apartment space, said one property agent, who gave his name only as Shams.

"We've seen some apartments where there are around 30 people living in one room," he said.

A Nakheel spokeman said the issues were being worked on.

"Nakheel [is] in continuous discussions with Trakhees [the authority that inspects the development] for the overcrowding issue," the spokesman said. "… there has also been considerable improvement in regards to the maintenance of infrastructure and we expect more progress in the near future."

Another problem faced by residents was drainage.

A German executive said he had recently moved his offices from the Russia cluster because of persistent problems with waste water, which led to problems with pests.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/...ty-overcrowded-badly-maintained-residents-say


----------



## faceoffdxb

*Al Masah Developer in Question*

I currently have 3 units in *Sports Business Tower*, *Sports City* Dubai under contract from Axon Development which had ceased construction for over 2 years (which has since restarted) The problem being that the project is now over two and a half years in delay (projected at a further 3 years delay) and the contract with *Axon Development FZC* which is now in question as the project has been handed over to *AlMasah ( Al Masah )International Real Estate Development LLC* also owned by *Mr Aboutaleb Shokrollah Talebi* on investigating through *RERA* I find the owner Mr Talebi has another company registered with RERA called *New World Investment Ltd* and has a further 15 projects listed with 10 of them on hold according to RERA. Project Names are as follows: *Jouri 3, Cadi 4, Jouri 1, Cadi 5, Cadi 2, Judi Palace, Jouri 6, World Wide Tower, Classic Soccer Tower, Cadi 3, Cadi 1, Jouri 4, Soraya Tower 1, Orchid Residence and Jouri 2. *
Further to the above Mr Aboutaleb Shokrollah Talebi also owns the following:* Chess Tower Ltd, Romeo & Juliet Ltd, Star Developers Ltd, Marina Exclusive Ltd, Marina Breeze Ltd, Bella Vida Ltd *and* Sahara Living Ltd. *
With so many companies and projects on hold in today’s economic climate in Dubai I am concerned the developer will run out of money and purchasers will not hand over further monies due to lack of confidence and or progress (10 projects on hold and a starved future cash flow) The developer has breached the contract grossly in terms of delivery dates and progress, so I decided to visit both RERA and Dubai Courts to investigate litigation; after a day knocking on doors it was confirmed by both RERA and Dubai Courts there are numerous cases against Al Masah and the name is well known by Dubai Courts. 
I am looking for any information anyone can provide over their experiences and in particular a lawyers name and contact details who is familiar with AlMasah and his mass of unfinished developments and claims against them as I am genuinely feel we are heading for a crash.


----------



## I Know

hno: *Kickback culture hikes service fees in Dubai, say experts*

Dubai homeowners are bearing the brunt of inflated service fees caused by suppliers paying off developers to secure maintenance contracts at above-market prices, industry experts said.

The kickback culture has seen some homeowners pay over the odds for services such as cleaning, landscaping and maintenance as developers favour companies offering bribes. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/kickback-culture-hikes-service-fees-in-dubai-say-experts-443182.html


----------



## I Know

TerryPop said:


> *
> POSTING THIS HERE TO SHOW HOW MUCH REVENUE NAKHEEL IS ABOUT TO PULL IN... THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE START OF ITS CLAWBACK (from the brink)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this is useful (taken from an investor update Newsletter):
> 
> Security camera's and access cards are coming to Discovery Gardens in the next few weeks.
> 
> Unpaid service charges are going to mean your tenants face a lock out- Nakheel is not going to back down on this (apparently it is 100% backed by all authorities)
> 
> The only reason the access card system is not in place already (as planned) is due to an argument with the company who won the tender.
> 
> This tender has been re-assigned and is due middle to end of feb.
> 
> Uniformed concierge/staff for each building (one per building) will be standard from Feb 15th.
> 
> Pools are set to open with a pay to play system, and all buildings will be audited for integrity/ necessary works.
> 
> Individual Cooling metres ARE going to be installed this year- and tender is out now for the works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What to do if you have not received a request for payment from Nakheel
> 
> If you have not received correspondance regarding service charges from Nakheel you need to fill out a "customer information sheet".
> 
> It is likely that Nakheel have the previous owners details or the original building owners details- either way YOU need to contact Nakheel and update them using the Nakheel 'customer information sheet'.
> 
> Service charges including unlimited cooling (while metres remain uninstalled) are approx 19,000 for a 1 bed and 9,000 for a studio.
> 
> You will be incurring monthly penalties regardless since November 2011.
> 
> These are around 200 aed per month and show on the invoice as 'late fee's'.
> 
> 
> 
> There were alot of people in Nakheel paying up and trying to dispute the late charges but the guys said they would not budge.
> 
> 
> Hope this is useful to owners
> 
> 
> TP


There is an article here too - Access cards, CCTV for Discovery Gardens

http://www.emirates247.com/property/access-cards-cctv-for-discovery-gardens-2012-01-30-1.440118


----------



## baba toto

SagarDubai said:


> .......it will be of great help to all of us if any one can get hold of some info on who the Auditor is for DEC. This report will be very crucial for all of us to know exactly where DEC stands!! This will also help us to chalk out our next plan as to if we should go to RERA and file our complaints......
> 
> ...hno:


Does anyone know if the DEC auditor has filed his report yet???? or when he is planning to file it????


----------



## beer51

Nakheel will waiver late fees for Discovery garden if you can prove that Nahkeel is at fault but expect to pay additional master developer charge of 2400 aed/ on top of the service.


----------



## Josau

Sid said:


> Hi Imre, hope you're keeping well. Do you know if this includes chiller charges?


^^ If this includes chiller charges, it would be pretty cheap for what Oceana offers. I doubt it though, since the Palm uses Palm District Cooling.


----------



## Josau

Interesting read:
http://www.thenational.ae/business/...sues-as-laws-catch-up-with-property-explosion

The good thing is, that all of this is now being discussed in the press. I hope it will put pressure onto the authorities to speed up the framework for a successful real estate environment. If not, Dubai will be known as a "Banana Republic" and this Arab success story will end as fast as it began.


----------



## Imre

Sid said:


> Hi Imre, hope you're keeping well. Do you know if this includes chiller charges?


I am not sure about the chiller there.. but I think its not included.


----------



## I Know

*Revealed: Top 5 neighbourhoods to raise a family in Dubai*










Dubai is considered a safe and secure city for children but there are some areas in the city which are considered better to raise a family when factors such as the quality of schools in the area, the available amenities such as child day-care centers, recreation centers, green space, hospitals, shopping areas, parks, restaurants and safety are taken into account. Emirates 24|7 spoke with experts at Asteco and Landmark properties to list the best localities in the city to raise children.

Emirates Living is perhaps one of the most desired places to live-in for expat families in Dubai. With ease of access to Sheikh Zayed road, community shopping, schools and parks, this location is a much sought after area in the city. The smaller communities within the community are gated and secure with personnel.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...o-raise-a-family-in-dubai-2012-02-02-1.440868


----------



## I Know

Villa owners in Dubai are failing to match their asking prices to market realities, according to a survey of real estate brokers in the emirate, leading to fewer enquiries translating into sales.

Real estate website propertyfinder.ae saw a two percent rise in online searches for villa for sale but saw a 13 percent drop in the number that converted into a viewing with a broker.

Agents polled by the website said the decline reflected a jump in villa prices in the city’s more established developments, following signs of a fledgling recovery in Dubai’s property market.

“Villas have been very active in the last year and the pricing in The Springs, Meadows, and many other mature communities has increased,” said Noman Mehmood, senior sales associate at Dubai-based TAKtical Realty Group.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-villa-owners-risk-pricing-homes-out-of-market-443325.html


----------



## TerryPop

I hate hp printers


----------



## noir-dresses

TerryPop said:


> I hate hp printers


I managed to read your original post. :applause::applause::applause::applause:

I feel your pain.


----------



## I Know

*Dubai house prices set to slip 5% in 2012 - experts*

Up down Up down Up down, what next, will it be Upside down or is it already


Online comment - this guy seems to be 
_I really wonder how AB or Reuters can write such an article. 51million passengers(audited) at Dubai+Sharjah+Dubai+Rak+Fuj. airports who all come to Dubai!!!No rooms are available in Dubai in the last 2 months- prices are by all means within 2007 range!!!All taxis are full - all lights in Marina or Burj or even in Ain road ON 100%. i had a friend who flew from paris and couldn't get him a bed in Premium Inn Silicon v. in the middle of desert!!!all Metro lines packed like tuna can from 6 to midnight incl. Gold class!prices in ALL areas have already gone up. I know many Syrian families with cash samsonites unable to find a normal flat to buy!!same with Libyans, Iranians,+Indians +England with 50%tax. People are jealous. That's all. That's normal human nature!!!God bless Dubai (again, i am not a local but an alien resident!!!). Dont moan, look closer to home!!!No one is forcing anybody to come here!!!!You can return to your country in 1 single hour!!No one told u, u will become a citizen! _


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-house-prices-set-slip-5-in-2012-experts-443075.html

A nearly four-year decline in house prices in the UAE won't end this year, as oversupply and concerns over the health of global economy weigh on the market, a Reuters poll showed on Tuesday.

Growth in the second largest Arab economy is expected to slow this year to 3.1 percent. That will not help Dubai's property prices to recover after plunging by two-thirds from their 2008 peak.

The poll of 11 respondents, including banks, investment firms and research institutions showed house prices in Dubai's beaten-down real estate sector will slip by a median 5 percent in 2012. Prices in the emirate, which is home to the world's tallest tower, the Burj Khalifa, will ultimately ease another 8 percent from here, a median of nine respondents showed.

Global markets were rattled in 2009 when Dubai announced a $25bn debt restructuring of conglomerate Dubai World , bringing its historic building spree to a halt.

Neighbouring Abu Dhabi, which was resilient during Dubai's property market collapse but is now showing signs of pressure, will see housing prices fall by as much as 11 percent this year.

"Macroeconomic concerns compounded with an ongoing supply-demand mismatch will further delay the recovery of the UAE property market," said Patrick Rahal, manager at Doha-based investment company The First Investor.

Four respondents said Dubai's property prices will stabilise during the year, while three said they would not do so until 2013 or beyond. Others thought prices had already reached bottom.

Expectations that Dubai property will continue to fall in value come as homes prices in the United States, where a spectacular collapse in the housing sector triggered the 2008-09 financial crisis, may finally be stabilising.

A Reuters poll of US home prices found a consensus for no change in the S&P/Case-Shiller home price index in 2012.

Economic growth in the UAE is expected to slow to 3.1 percent next year from 3.9 percent in 2011, in line with most of the other Gulf oil exporters, weighed down by a global slump.

Real estate and construction accounts for nearly 22 percent of the country's GDP.

Dubai's aggressive building drive has resulted in oversupply, with thousands of new residential and commercial units set to enter the Dubai real estate market.

Dubai's property market is oversupplied by 30 percent, a median of seven respondents showed. Abu Dhabi is oversupplied by 20 percent.

"The key message is that despite some recent stability, we still have a good chunk of supply coming in 2012 and as long as new jobs are not created to absorb the new supply, we are not likely to see any recovery," said Athmane Benzerroug, analyst at Deutsche Bank.

Rental prices in Dubai and Abu Dhabi will also see a downward trend, dropping 5 percent and 10 percent respectively.

Abu Dhabi, the capital city of the UAE, fared better during the downturn but is now facing challenges as a huge supply of high-end homes are expected to come onto the market.

Across the oil-rich state, which accounts for more than half of the UAE's economy, government-backed real estate, commercial and tourism projects, many conceived during the boom years of 2003-2008, are under review and in some cases being delayed or put on hold.

Abu Dhabi pushed back the opening of the much talked about local branches of Louvre and Guggenheim art museums earlier this month.

"In Abu Dhabi, the prices and rentals are expected to be under downward pressure due to increasing supply of housing units in the capital at a time where there (is) less demand," said Sajeer Babu, analyst at National Bank of Abu Dhabi.

A median of 10 respondents in the poll said Abu Dhabi's house prices will fall 61 percent from its peak in 2008 and 14 percent from here.

Four out of 10 respondents expected Abu Dhabi's house prices to fall by 15 percent and above in 2012.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-house-prices-set-slip-5-in-2012-experts-443075.html


----------



## Wac

This is GREAT news. We should all send our information to Rera through [email protected]


----------



## ibn frederick

^^^ "..noise polution...even more annoying.." The arrogance of ollitrade is astounding. With people like this, they will never bring back the Visa law. I cannot blame them. Try to remember that this is a Muslim country, and if you don't like it you can leave. The future of the UAE will be wealthy educated Muslim investors seeking safety and security here.
As a Wetern muslim I would not live or invest in any project that did not have a Mosque nearby.


----------



## MarkWass

^^ I respect your point, and absolutely agree with you that outside investors must show respect. Personally I would always, and never make insensitive/ignorant comments about places of worship. 

But unfortunately too many Western Muslim investors, who are close friends of mine, have been cheated and stolen from by too many developers…


----------



## ibn frederick

^^ true.. no discrimination from thieving developers


----------



## Parisian Girl

_*Homeowners will manage their own buildings*_
http://www.emirates247.com/property/homeowners-will-manage-their-own-buildings-2012-02-09-1.442060


----------



## TerryPop

The best comment I have seen on ArabianBusiness:

Article title *Bad press dents Brit interest in UAE property*




Posted by: Bad Business Lead to Bad Press Thursday, 9 February 2012 3:13 PM[UAE] - Qatar 

It's not bad press, it's bad Business Practices that is denting interest in UAE property.


----------



## I Know

ibn frederick said:


> ^^^ "..noise polution...even more annoying.." The arrogance of ollitrade is astounding. With people like this, they will never bring back the Visa law. I cannot blame them. Try to remember that this is a Muslim country, and if you don't like it you can leave. The future of the UAE will be wealthy educated Muslim investors seeking safety and security here.
> As a Wetern muslim I would not live or invest in any project that did not have a Mosque nearby.




Further to my little research about this matter I would like to share an article that I came across and it shares the same sentiments regarding a lack of Mosques.




Not only will it enhance the developements but there will be an UPLIFT in value and make it a more desirable location for residents as opposed to developments where there are no Mosques at present. 

Some comments from residents who where frustrated about there being a lack of Mosques. 






> Musa Mohammed, an expat who recently moved to the area says it is inconvenient to always drive to a mosque.
> 
> _“I have to go to Barsha to offer my Friday prayers and there is no other mosque in the area. Put simply, driving to the *mosque five times a day *is not very convenient and you don’t have a choice but to pray at home,” _says Musa.
> 
> Khurram Rasheed who lives next to the Greens mosque says many worshippers do not find a place to pray if they arrive late for the prayers.
> 
> 
> A single mosque
> 
> Residents living in Dubai’s Jumeirah Lakes Tower (JLT) area have also complained of inadequate prayer facilities. *With thousands of Muslims living in the high-rise properties *spread across the development, a single mosque in Tiffany tower’s retail expansion serves as the only prayer area.
> 
> Man-made lakes, waterways and landscaped gardens are all a part of the master plan developed by Dubai Multi Commodities Centre Authority (DMCC) but *there are no signs of a mosque, residents say*.
> 
> Mohammed Marzuqi lives in the Goldcrest Views 2 tower. He says he bought his three-bedroom apartment after carefully reviewing the location.
> 
> _*“In the master plan, there was a mosque which was supposed to be built next to my building. It’s been more than a year since I moved in and there is still no mosque,” says Marzuqi.*_
> 
> He adds: *“Having a mosque within walking distance of my home was a priority *for me when buying the flat. At times, I feel I’ve been cheated.”
> 
> Every Friday, the mosque in Tiffany Tower is packed with worshippers. Developed by IFFCO, a UAE based business house, the prayer area is extended by workers who spread out extra carpets in the building’s retail area to accommodate more people.
> 
> Faisal Khurram, a resident of the Indigo tower in JLT decided to set up a Facebook group to bring the plight of local residents to the attention of the authorities.
> 
> When contacted, a spokesperson from DMCC confirmed there were plans to build a large mosque in the area. The spokesperson said: “In accordance with the master plan for JLT, a mosque with a capacity for approximately 1,000 worshippers is being planned.
> 
> “*Suitable locations have been identified and assessments are currently being carried out to determine the best community site upon which the Mosque will be built*.”



And we have the Grand Mufti whom is a lovely and kind person to be around if you have met him you will know what I mean.





> Commenting on the issue of lack of mosques in some areas of Dubai, the Grand Mufti of IACAD Mohammed Al Kobaisi expressed deep sorrow.
> 
> *“A mosque is a central pivot around which a community should revolve.* It is not just a place of worship in Islam, but is more of a *community centre that brings the entire community together and gels them and gives them an opportunity to share and care,” *he said.
> 
> He urged property developers to give as much importance to a mosque as they give to other aspects of the development, since a mosque is a link between a community and the God Almighty. —[email protected], [email protected]




Full Article here - http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...11/August/theuae_August603.xml&section=theuae


----------



## TerryPop

TerryPop said:


> The best comment I have seen on ArabianBusiness:
> 
> Article title *Bad press dents Brit interest in UAE property*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted by: Bad Business Lead to Bad Press Thursday, 9 February 2012 3:13 PM[UAE] - Qatar
> 
> It's not bad press, it's bad Business Practices that is denting interest in UAE property.



I wish I had written that comment- *prevention is better then cure *and all that. 10 Gold stars and the day off to that man.


----------



## TerryPop

Does anyone on this forum have a way of updating the below?

Woul be extremely useful to have a list of approx people per community, or exactly how many people each community can house.




juiced said:


> The Palm Jumeirah - estimated 4,900 housing units and 15,500 people
> The Palm Jebel Ali - estimated 6,400 housing units and 20,000 people
> The World - consisting of 250 islands ranging from 250,000 - 900,000 square feet strategically positioned to form the shape of the world map available to individuals and investors
> Jumeirah Lake Towers - estimated 5,000 housing units and 18,500 people
> International City - estimated 21,000 housing units and 60,000 people
> Dubai Marina - estimated 14,000 housing units and 50,000 people
> Emirates Hills - estimated 621 housing units and 2,200 people
> The Meadows - estimated 1,800 housing units and 6,300 people
> The Springs - estimated 3,888 housing units and 13,600 people
> The Greens - estimated 800 housing units and 2,800 people
> Arabian Ranches - estimated 1,800 housing units and 6,300 people
> Burj Dubai - Part of the Burj Dubai development, this will be the world's tallest tower
> Emaar Towers - estimated 168 housing units
> The Garden View Villas - estimated 208 housing units and 750 people
> Dubai Pearl - estimated 2,000 housing units and 25,000 people.
> Jumeirah Beach Residence - estimated 6,000 housing units and 21,000 people


----------



## Towers3

TerryPop said:


> I wish I had written that comment- *prevention is better then cure *and all that. 10 Gold stars and the day off to that man.


Moaning Brits have ruined the property market aswell. Brilliant... Good title for a B horror movie :lol: Looks like some investors have been really moaning after all the recent articles. 

Are u complaining about the bad press for your investment? Or maybe we shouldn't have free press? 

Is this about british investors made a bad investment and should just walk away? They gambled? The urban myth... 

Next week there'll be a court case win for an investor, reporters will be all over it and how badly investors have been treated. 

Its nothing to do with bad businesses practices or investor protection  

As usual read the whole article not the headline. 

'according to the results of a study by an independent UK-based property portal.' So 100 people were interviewed at best. Mmm... 

“Other countries in the region, such as Jordan and Qatar, have not seen a concerted push to promote them as property destinations. As a result, there is a lower level of interest," he said. 

So no promotion either... 

The article mentions the arab spring aswell... 

Investors know the risks now and if something goes wrong their investment won't be protected. Especially in a post-recession world... 

Dubai is still a top holiday destination. No 1? Doing well there... 

Good comment to make at a dinner party. How dare these investors  Pass the cheese please


----------



## TerryPop

Dude....

I think alot of investors are mature enough to take a loss on capital values- no one can predict the future.

I think watching a developer *not* build out, *not* refund and *not* be called to account when they have been paid as much as 50 per cent up front may be the real story.


The essence of that comment is so simple and that article wouldn't even exist if the 'bad' business practices were dealt with, rectified and prevented from happening again.

Fat Ursula.








Towers3 said:


> Moaning Brits have ruined the property market aswell. Brilliant... Good title for a B horror movie :lol: Looks like some investors have been really moaning after all the recent articles.
> 
> Are u complaining about the bad press for your investment? Or maybe we shouldn't have free press?
> 
> Is this about british investors made a bad investment and should just walk away? They gambled? The urban myth...
> 
> Next week there'll be a court case win for an investor, reporters will be all over it and how badly investors have been treated.
> 
> Its nothing to do with bad businesses practices or investor protection
> 
> As usual read the whole article not the headline.
> 
> 'according to the results of a study by an independent UK-based property portal.' So 100 people were interviewed at best. Mmm...
> 
> “Other countries in the region, such as Jordan and Qatar, have not seen a concerted push to promote them as property destinations. As a result, there is a lower level of interest," he said.
> 
> So no promotion either...
> 
> The article mentions the arab spring aswell...
> 
> Investors know the risks now and if something goes wrong their investment won't be protected. Especially in a post-recession world...
> 
> Dubai is still a top holiday destination. No 1? Doing well there...
> 
> Good comment to make at a dinner party. How dare these investors  Pass the cheese please


----------



## Mistermark

TerryPop said:


> Dude....
> 
> I think alot of investors are mature enough to take a loss on capital values- no one can predict the future.
> 
> I think watching a developer *not* build out, *not* refund and *not* be called to account when they have been paid as much as 50 per cent up front may be the real story.
> 
> 
> The essence of that comment is so simple and that article wouldn't even exist if the 'bad' business practices were dealt with, rectified and prevented from happening again.
> 
> Fat Ursula.


I agree. IMO the culprits are not the dodgy developers but the dodgy Emirate and its corrupt and inefficient legal system. The developers were simply doing whatever they could get away with; the real blame resides with the government for letting them.

For this reason I suspect off-plan in Dubai will be dead for a generation. Deservedly so. The market for completed property will continue to exist but prices will be held back by factors such as the continuing ability of developers to scam owners on service charges.


----------



## Towers3

Mistermark said:


> I agree. IMO the culprits are not the dodgy developers but the dodgy Emirate and its corrupt and inefficient legal system. The developers were simply doing whatever they could get away with; the real blame resides with the government for letting them.
> 
> For this reason I suspect off-plan in Dubai will be dead for a generation. Deservedly so. The market for completed property will continue to exist but prices will be held back by factors such as the continuing ability of developers to scam owners on service charges.


Not deservedly so... Poor comment... It will be dead though... So more moaning for ten years... 

You've got all the cases in court this year. Will be a few more investors wins... Reporters will be writing about Developer abuses again and then some. Lots of money to be made by lawyers. 

I could be wrong but that article is probably investors like you, moaning just like the off plan investors are moaning which is fair. Its still bad press but whatever they're or you are complaining about, they've put it in the news again. Then its a chance for all the off plan investors etc to moan at the bottom to the comments section. The article did more harm than good obviously. I'm sure all the off plan investors will be saying thank you for the free press. 

All good stuff for a dinner party... Pass the biscuits please...


----------



## TerryPop

Agreed-

looking at it in a completely practical way- not alot can be done until the government itself (think nakheel) is out of the woods.

I believe this will happen. 

Once Nakheel has sorted itself out- then the govt and its enforcement arms are free to hammer and call to account all the secondary developers in breach.

Always had a gut feeling the return of the market will go hand in hand with Nakheels re positioning.










Mistermark said:


> I agree. IMO the culprits are not the dodgy developers but the dodgy Emirate and its corrupt and inefficient legal system. The developers were simply doing whatever they could get away with; the real blame resides with the government for letting them.
> 
> For this reason I suspect off-plan in Dubai will be dead for a generation. Deservedly so. The market for completed property will continue to exist but prices will be held back by factors such as the continuing ability of developers to scam owners on service charges.


----------



## Towers3

TerryPop said:


> Agreed-
> 
> looking at it in a completely practical way- not alot can be done until the government itself (think nakheel) is out of the woods.
> 
> I believe this will happen.
> 
> Once Nakheel has sorted itself out- then the govt and its enforcement arms are free to hammer and call to account all the secondary developers in breach.
> 
> Always had a gut feeling the return of the market will go hand in hand with Nakheels re positioning.


Have u read the article? There is no avoiding it... 

"There is no avoiding the number of horror stories that have circulated about the UAE property market, from incomplete projects to developers sitting on funds. These have severely impacted demand,” Dan Johnson, managing director of TheMoveChannel.com, told Arabian Business.

Investors are more cautious than ever... We're on the edge of a double dip recession... 

“The media coverage of the Gulf states has also not been hugely positive - in a period where investors are being more cautious than ever, any market that carries a perceived risk is likely to suffer,” he added.


----------



## I Know

I Know said:


> Further to my little research about this matter I would like to share an article that I came across and it shares the same sentiments regarding a lack of Mosques.
> 
> Not only will it enhance the developements but there will be an UPLIFT in value and make it a more desirable location for residents as opposed to developments where there are no Mosques at present.
> 
> Some comments from residents who where frustrated about there being a lack of Mosques.
> 
> Musa Mohammed, an expat who recently moved to the area says it is inconvenient to always drive to a mosque.
> 
> “I have to go to Barsha to offer my Friday prayers and there is no other mosque in the area. Put simply, driving to the mosque five times a day is not very convenient and you don’t have a choice but to pray at home,” says Musa.
> 
> Khurram Rasheed who lives next to the Greens mosque says many worshippers do not find a place to pray if they arrive late for the prayers.
> 
> 
> A single mosque
> 
> Residents living in Dubai’s Jumeirah Lakes Tower (JLT) area have also complained of inadequate prayer facilities. With thousands of Muslims living in the high-rise properties spread across the development, a single mosque in Tiffany tower’s retail expansion serves as the only prayer area.
> 
> Man-made lakes, waterways and landscaped gardens are all a part of the master plan developed by Dubai Multi Commodities Centre Authority (DMCC) but there are no signs of a mosque, residents say.
> 
> Mohammed Marzuqi lives in the Goldcrest Views 2 tower. He says he bought his three-bedroom apartment after carefully reviewing the location.
> 
> “In the master plan, there was a mosque which was supposed to be built next to my building. It’s been more than a year since I moved in and there is still no mosque,” says Marzuqi.
> 
> He adds: “Having a mosque within walking distance of my home was a priority for me when buying the flat. At times, I feel I’ve been cheated.”
> 
> Every Friday, the mosque in Tiffany Tower is packed with worshippers. Developed by IFFCO, a UAE based business house, the prayer area is extended by workers who spread out extra carpets in the building’s retail area to accommodate more people.
> 
> Faisal Khurram, a resident of the Indigo tower in JLT decided to set up a Facebook group to bring the plight of local residents to the attention of the authorities.
> 
> When contacted, a spokesperson from DMCC confirmed there were plans to build a large mosque in the area. The spokesperson said: “In accordance with the master plan for JLT, a mosque with a capacity for approximately 1,000 worshippers is being planned.
> 
> “Suitable locations have been identified and assessments are currently being carried out to determine the best community site upon which the Mosque will be built.”
> 
> 
> 
> And we have the Grand Mufti whom is a lovely and kind person to be around if you have met him you will know what I mean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Commenting on the issue of lack of mosques in some areas of Dubai, the Grand Mufti of IACAD Mohammed Al Kobaisi expressed deep sorrow.
> 
> “A mosque is a central pivot around which a community should revolve. It is not just a place of worship in Islam, but is more of a community centre that brings the entire community together and gels them and gives them an opportunity to share and care,” he said.
> 
> He urged property developers to give as much importance to a mosque as they give to other aspects of the development, since a mosque is a link between a community and the God Almighty. —[email protected], [email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full Article here - http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...11/August/theuae_August603.xml&section=theuae
Click to expand...




ibn frederick said:


> ^^^ "..noise polution...even more annoying.." The arrogance of ollitrade is astounding. With people like this, they will never bring back the Visa law. I cannot blame them. Try to remember that this is a Muslim country, and if you don't like it you can leave. The future of the UAE will be wealthy educated Muslim investors seeking safety and security here.
> As a Wetern muslim I would not live or invest in any project that did not have a Mosque nearby.



*The visa should be unrelated to property*


----------



## jac2

*Damac- Lakeside Development*

Help, is there anybody with investments in Damac's Lakeside Development who are in the same situation as me? I am at a complete loss as to what to make my next move. This development is well overdue and not worth the paper its written on now. I am looking for anyone with upto date information, or forming a group to give strength in numbers, lawyers etc. Any information would be useful. I have posted a thread under jac2 regarding this on the Overseas Property Investment Forum. Time is running out and I have all I have invested in this development. It was the worst thing I ever did. Contact me at julesredubai at hotmail dot co dot uk


----------



## ollitrade

I just read my own comments regarding the mosques in JI. I must admit that I have chosen the wrong and to harsh words. Sure, I am not against mosques in any way, but for proper and sensible planing. For anybody who felt offended: SORRY!


----------



## hemelboorder

Your issue probably just refers to the loudspeakers, ollitrade, and you are right in that.

Dubai marketed itself as a truly international city, welcoming investors and expats from all over the world.

Then it is not so strange to accomodate them by omitting loudspeakers in the areas where they mostly live, like Marina and JLT.


----------



## TerryPop

Towers3 said:


> Not deservedly so... Poor comment... It will be dead though... So more moaning for ten years...
> 
> You've got all the cases in court this year. Will be a few more investors wins... Reporters will be writing about Developer abuses again and then some. Lots of money to be made by lawyers.
> 
> I could be wrong but that article is probably investors like you, moaning just like the off plan investors are moaning which is fair. Its still bad press but whatever they're or you are complaining about, they've put it in the news again. Then its a chance for all the off plan investors etc to moan at the bottom to the comments section. The article did more harm than good obviously. I'm sure all the off plan investors will be saying thank you for the free press.
> 
> All good stuff for a dinner party... Pass the biscuits please...


what will be dead though?

Also are you implying that we would all be better off if these articles did not get written?


----------



## TerryPop

I get your point that some of the comments and negatives spread about the place are just people being people.

But I think you are making light of some pretty unfair practices.










Towers3 said:


> Moaning Brits have ruined the property market aswell. Brilliant... Good title for a B horror movie :lol: Looks like some investors have been really moaning after all the recent articles.
> 
> Are u complaining about the bad press for your investment? Or maybe we shouldn't have free press?
> 
> Is this about british investors made a bad investment and should just walk away? They gambled? The urban myth...
> 
> Next week there'll be a court case win for an investor, reporters will be all over it and how badly investors have been treated.
> 
> Its nothing to do with bad businesses practices or investor protection
> 
> As usual read the whole article not the headline.
> 
> 'according to the results of a study by an independent UK-based property portal.' So 100 people were interviewed at best. Mmm...
> 
> “Other countries in the region, such as Jordan and Qatar, have not seen a concerted push to promote them as property destinations. As a result, there is a lower level of interest," he said.
> 
> So no promotion either...
> 
> The article mentions the arab spring aswell...
> 
> Investors know the risks now and if something goes wrong their investment won't be protected. Especially in a post-recession world...
> 
> Dubai is still a top holiday destination. No 1? Doing well there...
> 
> Good comment to make at a dinner party. How dare these investors  Pass the cheese please


----------



## True Blue

ollitrade said:


> I just read my own comments regarding the mosques in JI. I must admit that I have chosen the wrong and to harsh words. Sure, I am not against mosques in any way, but for proper and sensible planing. For anybody who felt offended: SORRY!





hemelboorder said:


> Your issue probably just refers to the loudspeakers, ollitrade, and you are right in that.
> 
> Dubai marketed itself as a truly international city, welcoming investors and expats from all over the world.
> 
> Then it is not so strange to accomodate them by omitting loudspeakers in the areas where they mostly live, like Marina and JLT.


It was a good point badly put.

They stopped ringing the church bells in my village a few years ago following complaints from non christians. Then in the news last night the courts have now made it illegal to have christian prayers before town council meetings. The rights of non christian religions are now being observed in the UK and christianity will cease to be recognised as the religious identity of our country due to our acceptance that we must respect and co habit with other religions.

I love hearing the call to prayer coming from the Minerets, if I am in the Middle East why would I want to feel like I am in New York for example. But I guess my love could be tested if a new Mosque was built next door to my house. New Mosques are necessary to satisfy the needs of Muslims, however I would suggest that consideration is given to the very real fact that a very large number of people living in the freehold areas in particular, will be non muslim expats and appropriate consideration is given to this fact.

We need to learn to adapt so we can live together and respect everyones views, as we are already in a little village in Bonnie Scotland


----------



## glover

in this digital age, using loudspeakers for prayer calls is a thing of the past and should not be allowed anymore. ask anyone who is a non-observant muslim, let alone a non-muslim, who lives close to a mosque how disruptive the call to prayer can be at dawn for example (sleep depravity!!!). having loudspeakers for the call to prayers in every mosque does not make any sense at all in today's world. the way it's done today in muslim countries is more of a show than a religious matter imo (shoving it down your throat come to mind here).

with the abundance of clocks everywhere, any observant muslim can know the time at any moment and thus would know when to pray. at worst, he/she can set his cell phone to sound an alert when praying is due.


----------



## hemelboorder

Well said, True Blue and glover. 

But actually, loudspeakers are also a modern invention, since they've been around for a number of decades only. Originally it was just the human voice that did the job - a very bearable volume. 
Nowadays, the voice amplification technology has become obsolete and been replaced by better solutions, as you mentioned.

Many inhabitants of this city, of all origins and faiths, are eagerly waiting for the moment when the nights will be quiet again.


----------



## Towers3

TerryPop said:


> what will be dead though?
> 
> Also are you implying that we would all be better off if these articles did not get written?


Sorry your house prices or rents are effected b/c off plan investors had to go to the press but they're gamblers, speculators what do u expect. They should go away or be left like that. And now they complain... How dare they? Its stopping investment thats the only reason for the lack of investment in Dubai. 

How much have you lost? How much could your properties be worth if off plan investors didn't complain to the press? Have u worked it out? 

How many stars did you award for that article again?


----------



## haslok2000

this in not a secret all those projects are on their web site , it's not like they are hiding most of the projects are on hold, so far saqran is progressing , until when we'll see -.-


----------



## TerryPop

Towers3 said:


> Sorry your house prices or rents are effected b/c off plan investors had to go to the press but they're gamblers, speculators what do u expect. They should go away or be left like that. And now they complain... How dare they? Its stopping investment thats the only reason for the lack of investment in Dubai.
> 
> How much have you lost? How much could your properties be worth if off plan investors didn't complain to the press? Have u worked it out?
> 
> How many stars did you award for that article again?


Seiously tho? 

Maybe re-read the stories of people waiting for their homes when the bus drops you back home tmrw.

Not all of the people cleaned out were 'gamblers'.


----------



## Towers3

TerryPop said:


> Seiously tho?
> 
> Maybe re-read the stories of people waiting for their homes when the bus drops you back home tmrw.
> 
> Not all of the people cleaned out were 'gamblers'.




Agreed... They're just like you and me and deserve to be treated as such. 

Apologies for the strong comments. Maybe blame the recession etc Not Crazy Brits moaning to the press for the lack of investment. 

That same newspaper will report something different next week.


----------



## MarkWass

TerryPop said:


> Seiously tho?
> 
> Maybe re-read the stories of people waiting for their homes when the bus drops you back home tmrw.
> 
> Not all of the people cleaned out were 'gamblers'.


TPop, he (Towers) was being sarcastic...


----------



## TerryPop

MarkWass said:


> TPop, he (Towers) was being sarcastic...


oops- apologies towers!! completely missed that- my bad.

So you're not thick, you're funny :lol:


----------



## Towers3

MarkWass said:


> TPop, he (Towers) was being sarcastic...


Apologies for any offense caused.


----------



## Towers3

TerryPop said:


> oops- apologies towers!! completely missed that- my bad.
> 
> So you're not thick, you're funny :lol:


Was just giving an example of an article. Went a little over the top to make a point obviously.

Apologies... 

Dubai's the no 1 tourist destination for Brits in the winter. That must help... 

I'm not taking public transport in britain though.


----------



## speculator

glover said:


> in this digital age, using loudspeakers for prayer calls is a thing of the past and should not be allowed anymore. ask anyone who is a non-observant muslim, let alone a non-muslim, who lives close to a mosque how disruptive the call to prayer can be at dawn for example (sleep depravity!!!). having loudspeakers for the call to prayers in every mosque does not make any sense at all in today's world. the way it's done today in muslim countries is more of a show than a religious matter imo (shoving it down your throat come to mind here).
> 
> with the abundance of clocks everywhere, any observant muslim can know the time at any moment and thus would know when to pray. at worst, he/she can set his cell phone to sound an alert when praying is due.


The Adhan sounds glorious at all times. Those suffering from hangovers will obviously not agree. Sorry guys but when in Rome do as the Romans do, or at least accept the nuances of an alternative country/religion.

I will concede the Adhan does sound best without speakers and is best in its natural state from a minaret. Sorry it doesn't sound the same on an iPhone.

Also yes more mosques are required.


----------



## I Know

ollitrade said:


> I just read my own comments regarding the mosques in JI. I must admit that I have chosen the wrong and to harsh words. Sure, I am not against mosques in any way, but for proper and sensible planing. For anybody who felt offended: SORRY!





hemelboorder said:


> Your issue probably just refers to the loudspeakers, ollitrade, and you are right in that.
> 
> Dubai marketed itself as a truly international city, welcoming investors and expats from all over the world.
> 
> Then it is not so strange to accomodate them by omitting loudspeakers in the areas where they mostly live, like Marina and JLT.





glover said:


> in this digital age, using loudspeakers for prayer calls is a thing of the past and should not be allowed anymore. ask anyone who is a non-observant muslim, let alone a non-muslim, who lives close to a mosque how disruptive the call to prayer can be at dawn for example (sleep depravity!!!). having loudspeakers for the call to prayers in every mosque does not make any sense at all in today's world. the way it's done today in muslim countries is more of a show than a religious matter imo (shoving it down your throat come to mind here).
> 
> with the abundance of clocks everywhere, any observant muslim can know the time at any moment and thus would know when to pray. at worst, he/she can set his cell phone to sound an alert when praying is due.





hemelboorder said:


> Well said, True Blue and glover.
> 
> But actually, loudspeakers are also a modern invention, since they've been around for a number of decades only. Originally it was just the human voice that did the job - a very bearable volume.
> Nowadays, the voice amplification technology has become obsolete and been replaced by better solutions, as you mentioned.
> 
> Many inhabitants of this city, of all origins and faiths, are eagerly waiting for the moment when the nights will be quiet again.





> A survey by 999 Magazine, the official English-speaking magazine for Abu Dhabi Police and the Ministry of the Interior, quizzed 2,000 expats from various nationalities about their knowledge of customs and traditions.
> 
> The overwhelming majority admitted they know little about their host country, despite most having lived in the UAE for more than a year.
> 
> This lack of cultural awareness exists despite the fact that a large majority (70 per cent) of the respondents admitted there were enough resources available for expats to learn more about the UAE.
> 
> When asked if they knew when the country’s *religious* holidays fell and what they meant, 48 per cent answered “some of them”.
> 
> Another worrying finding from the survey was the *source* where expats were getting their information.
> 
> The survey found: *“Most respondents depended on word-of-mouth, increasing the risk of miscommunication or incorrect information being passed on.”*
> 
> Al Kindi added: “Learning is an on-going long-term process. To be able to truly understand a country’s culture, there needs to be a *genuine interest to learn continuously*.
> 
> You can’t learn a culture in one or two days...


http://www.7days.ae/node/32928

The article speaks for itself


----------



## True Blue

speculator said:


> The Adhan sounds glorious at all times. Those suffering from hangovers will obviously not agree. Sorry guys but when in Rome do as the Romans do, or at least accept the nuances of an alternative country/religion.
> 
> I will concede the Adhan does sound best without speakers and is best in its natural state from a minaret. Sorry it doesn't sound the same on an iPhone.
> 
> Also yes more mosques are required.


I don't think many would disagree with you that more Mosques are required. however this picture tells it's own story. These towers in the marina were sold years ago and the master plan showed that the land next door was to be an Open Space, park or landscaping/ kids outdoor play area etc. Now it is going to be a Mosque built long after the towers were finished.











IMO everything will be fine so long as the Mosque respects their neighbours and consider their right to undisturbed sleep for the non muslims living in these towers. If they insist on broadcasting the Adhan at 4:30am over loudspeakers, then property prices in these buildings, only a few meters away, will be seriously affected. 

I would hazard a guess that the populous of the marina will be mainly non muslim given that it is a freehold/expat hotspot. So as well as doing as the Romans do, we must also "live and let live", "love thy neighbour" etc etc


----------



## glover

it sounds like you are from the "shoving it down thee throat" camp. FYI, a lot of devout muslims find it very offensive that mosque imams try to make the call to prayer sound like a beautiful song !!! the call to prayer was never meant to sound "glorious" or appealing to people. it was simply meant to remind followers of the time to pray (not become a show!!!)



speculator said:


> The Adhan sounds glorious at all times. Those suffering from hangovers will obviously not agree. Sorry guys but when in Rome do as the Romans do, or at least accept the nuances of an alternative country/religion.
> 
> I will concede the Adhan does sound best without speakers and is best in its natural state from a minaret. Sorry it doesn't sound the same on an iPhone.
> 
> Also yes more mosques are required.


----------



## TerryPop

Towers3 said:


> Was just giving an example of an article. Went a little over the top to make a point obviously.
> 
> Apologies...
> 
> Dubai's the no 1 tourist destination for Brits in the winter. That must help...
> 
> I'm not taking public transport in britain though.


Excellently done towers 

I honestly thought you were being serious lol!!! Take 9.75 gold stars from me and your boss said you can take the rest of the day off too.


----------



## speculator

glover said:


> it sounds like you are from the "shoving it down thee throat" camp. FYI, a lot of devout muslims find it very offensive that mosque imams try to make the call to prayer sound like a beautiful song !!! the call to prayer was never meant to sound "glorious" or appealing to people. it was simply meant to remind followers of the time to pray (not become a show!!!)


LOL:lol: Where do you get your info from. _:lol:_

Glorious or not : the Adhan serves its purpose much like the church bells on a Sunday morning.

Anyway sorry I can't help you on this one. Speak to planning.


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> I don't think many would disagree with you that more Mosques are required. however this picture tells it's own story. These towers in the marina were sold years ago and the master plan showed that the land next door was to be an Open Space, park or landscaping/ kids outdoor play area etc. Now it is going to be a Mosque built long after the towers were finished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMO everything will be fine so long as the Mosque respects their neighbours and consider their right to undisturbed sleep for the non muslims living in these towers. If they insist on broadcasting the Adhan at 4:30am over loudspeakers, then property prices in these buildings, only a few meters away, will be seriously affected.
> 
> I would hazard a guess that the populous of the marina will be mainly non muslim given that it is a freehold/expat hotspot. So as well as doing as the Romans do, we must also "live and let live", "love thy neighbour" etc etc


I cannot disagree with you. Its really not appropriate in this scenario and to be honest goes against the tenets of Islam.


----------



## glover

you are not seriuos are you, comparing once a week church bells from one or two churches to five times a day adhan from 3-4 mosques that you can hear from 2-3 km away!


speculator said:


> Glorious or not : the Adhan serves its purpose much like the church bells on a Sunday morning.


----------



## Wac

Dear SagarDubai, Please let us know if you make a phone call at DEC. I'll do the same.


----------



## smussuw

True Blue said:


> I'm sorry but that attitude, especially coming from someone in your profession, is quite shocking!!!!!
> 
> If I said that to an expat Muslim in the UK, I would be arrested and charged with racial abuse. And quite rightly so! You should really rethink your approach and try and act a little more mature.


:blahblah:

luckily for me then its totally different here. Maybe u guys should reconsider before trying to impose ur culture here :runaway:

I remember someone here telling me to move to Sharjah if I didn't like it in Dubai :nuts:


----------



## True Blue

smussuw said:


> :blahblah:
> 
> luckily for me then its totally different here. Maybe u guys should reconsider before trying to impose ur culture here :runaway:
> 
> I remember someone here telling me to move to Sharjah if I didn't like it in Dubai :nuts:


Maybe they were speaking mataphorically, trying to tell you to stop living in a little "Dubai" bubble. 

I know you are a nice guy Sumssuw and I have enjoyed your wicked sense of humour on many occasions. I just think you need to broaden your horizons. There are actually countries with snow and forests and green plains. These countries also have many nice friendly people who welcome everyone without judging or trying to impose their culture. The world is not like Hollywood or Bollywood.kay:


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> Maybe they were speaking mataphorically, trying to tell you to stop living in a little "Dubai" bubble.
> 
> I know you are a nice guy Sumssuw and I have enjoyed your wicked sense of humour on many occasions. I just think you need to broaden your horizons. There are actually countries with snow and forests and green plains. These countries also have many nice friendly people who welcome everyone without judging or trying to impose their culture. The world is not like Hollywood or Bollywood.kay:


You have some credible points however the UK ( if that's where you are referring to) is not as fair as you might convey. _Being told to go where you came from _Is very common in uk without any legal actions. The level of ignorance in the west about other cultures is beyond belief.

I recall someone telling me about a British guy who landed in a Dubai jail cause he pulled out beer cans at the airport and started drinking even after being told by friends not to....now come on that is totally taking the piss. Anyway drifting off. The point is as I mentioned earlier " when in Rome " 
Personally I wouldn't expect to move to any country and not accept and tolerate the religion and culture. Finally why isn't the Adhan allowed in the UK ? Cause it's a non Muslim country. So where are the rights in that instance ?


----------



## True Blue

speculator said:


> You have some credible points however the UK ( if that's where you are referring to) is not as fair as you might convey. _Being told to go where you came from _Is very common in uk without any legal actions. The level of ignorance in the west about other cultures is beyond belief.
> 
> I recall someone telling me about a British guy who landed in a Dubai jail cause he pulled out beer cans at the airport and started drinking even after being told by friends not to....now come on that is totally taking the piss. Anyway drifting off. The point is as I mentioned earlier " when in Rome "
> Personally I wouldn't expect to move to any country and not accept and tolerate the religion and culture. Finally why isn't the Adhan allowed in the UK ? Cause it's a non Muslim country. So where are the rights in that instance ?


I am always open to everyones view points on this subject as it is one of the best ways to learn and understand.

Can I just pose a possible answer to your question about the Adhan? In the UK there is a disturbance law which says you are breaking the law(breach of the peace) if you make any noise after 11pm and before 7am. Sunsets and sun rises are more extended in the Northern hemisphere. I can't speak for England as we have our own laws in Scotland, but I haven't heard a complaint yet from any of my Muslim friends about the Mosque operations in the Glasgow district. There is nothing availble in my village due to the low numbers of Muslims so my mate travels to Glasgow. If I was a practising Christian then I would expect to have to travel in Dubai to find a church. Doubt there are many with big bells on!


----------



## Towers3

smussuw said:


> ^^ :yes:
> 
> Now all we need is to get rid of those dirty dogs and the place will be perfect :laugh: :jk:


Its a new event in Crufts 2012  

A Mosque should be built there if that is the plan.


----------



## ummbutti

*DEC are lying thieving bastards ...*

Hello Guys ,check this out ...
DEC are lying thieving bastards facebook group ::naughty:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/171234159612462/


----------



## beer51

Glover you need to grow up, when one goes to another country one needs follow the culture and rule of that country. If you don't like the Adhan in Dubai go back to your own country nobodies holding you back.


----------



## smussuw

^^ I don't think he wants to go there any time soon. Too bad for him, his country is controlled by Islamisist dominated parliament :runaway:


----------



## UAE Investor

Q&A from the boss ....

http://www.uaepm.ae/en/media/e-sessions/Meda_session_answers.html


----------



## hemelboorder

smussuw said:


> :blahblah:
> 
> luckily for me then its totally different here. Maybe u guys should reconsider before trying to impose ur culture here :runaway:
> 
> I remember someone here telling me to move to Sharjah if I didn't like it in Dubai :nuts:



Remember this is not about imposing any kind of culture. It's about disturbance. 

In every modern country, you can live freely as long as you do not cause nuisance to someone else. There are extensive regulations for ensuring everybody's wellbeing.

Now it's time to implement this in Dubai. Or is Dubai not a modern country?


----------



## glover

don't worry, this kuwaiti parliament won't last a year. it will be dissolved soon and i will breath a sigh of relief then and say good riddance. the most hypocritical people i met in my life are islamic fundamentalists, and salafis are among the worst of them.

smussuw, i think if you have an elected parliament here you will vote for salafis for sure!! and then they will force everyone to wear a beard, talaban style. guess what will happen to dubai's economy then!! your salary will be cut in half!! LOL

no really, there are many salafis in the uae, but they are lurking in the background and waiting for the right moment to strike, like they did in egypt!! hope that never happens.



smussuw said:


> ^^ I don't think he wants to go there any time soon. Too bad for him, his country is controlled by Islamisist dominated parliament :runaway:


----------



## smussuw

^^ There is no way I'll vote for salafis. I would like to see a balance where conservative values dominates in public while personal freedom is maintained. Like you can do whatever you want in private but in public there should be a line. I want to feel that I belong to this place.

I don't know why u think Islamisist are hypocrites while others r not. Each to their own I guess.



hemelboorder said:


> Remember this is not about imposing any kind of culture. It's about disturbance.
> 
> In every modern country, you can live freely as long as you do not cause nuisance to someone else. There are extensive regulations for ensuring everybody's wellbeing.
> 
> Now it's time to implement this in Dubai. Or is Dubai not a modern country?


Dubai is a city. 

You have your own definition of what u call modern.


----------



## noir-dresses

hemelboorder said:


> Remember this is not about imposing any kind of culture. It's about disturbance.
> 
> In every modern country, you can live freely as long as you do not cause nuisance to someone else. There are extensive regulations for ensuring everybody's wellbeing.
> 
> Now it's time to implement this in Dubai. Or is Dubai not a modern country?


Actually I avoid going to the Red Light District when ever I come to Amsterdam. Drunken/high males walking around, and looking/shopping for dirty/meaningless/unmoral sex.

A little toooo modern for me.

Besides that the city is very nice.


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> I am always open to everyones view points on this subject as it is one of the best ways to learn and understand.
> In the UK there is a disturbance law which says you are breaking the law(breach of the peace) if you make any noise after 11pm and before 7am. Sunsets and sun rises are more extended in the Northern hemisphere.


11pm to 7am....? Those are the hours when old Blighty is most alive and the most crime occurs:so much for laws on disturbance. Come and talk to the chavs they'll have something to tell you. Seriously I am not being being sarcastic. 

comparing religious and cultural issues between the west and east is like comparing chalk and cheese. Sadly the west, particularly the UK, no longer has either a religious or cultured indigenious population. Perhaps, in my opinion, thats why they find it difficult to cope when overseas.

Regarding churches in Dubai ? Come on really how many people attend ? Going by uk statistics the the answer is not many.


----------



## speculator

hemelboorder said:


> Remember this is not about imposing any kind of culture. It's about disturbance.
> 
> In every modern country, you can live freely as long as you do not cause nuisance to someone else. There are extensive regulations for ensuring everybody's wellbeing.
> 
> Now it's time to implement this in Dubai. Or is Dubai not a modern country?


Me the wife and our two young teenagers went for a weeks break to Edingburgh not long ago. We could not walk or enjoy the town at night, before midnight, due to all the drunks on the roads. next morning Sunday the town was full of the stench of urine and womiting and beer cans littered all round. Now is that a nuisance to our freedom and society overall. Where are the regulations to protect us those who don't like getting stoned every night ?

So it's really a matter of how we interrupt things is it not ?

no disrespect to anyone from Edingburgh,it's a great city and it's a city's I love and have wanted to live in. Just sorry I had to use this great place as an example. But life is complicated and nowhere is perfect. 

Again its really how we interpret things and what we perceive to be a nuisance. I find it hard to comprehend though how it's such a nuisance to hear the call to worship and be near God.


----------



## TerryPop

*The District cooling scam*

There's been quite a bit of unofficial chit chat about the whole saga with District Cooling throughout Dubai.

Isn't it extremely odd that it is so much more expensive then using the old type of AC's?

I mean SO MUCH MORE...


----------



## TerryPop

My question on PDC is what is the scam?


Does anybody know what is going on?

We were at a drinks party and some D*ckhead was boasting about how the District cooling companies and developers were:

Making extremely good profits through the cooling charges that were (hahaha) sometimes 4 or 5 times higher then cost or normal ac systems, 

How they were getting plants paid for in record time 

That the bonds PDC issues were going to be a sell out as a result of this monopolised/ excessively expensive business model.


can anyone shed more light on this? maybe a good old fashioned whistle blower?

Is it really going to be the norm to charge cooling at rates several times higher then standard split AC systems?


If this isn't regulated its going to get out of hand BIG TIME.


----------



## I Know

speculator said:


> The level of ignorance in the west about other cultures is beyond belief.


Yes I know


----------



## speculator

^^^^
They have point though. Everyone of thos hill billy Muslims is a walking time bomb:lol:

FREEDOM : is that really freedom with that level of ignorance ?


----------



## MarkWass

^^ Oh, my mistake, the journalist is actually referring to her father's cause of death… :nuts:


----------



## I Know

Dear True Blue


Please note that it is not a sermon, It is an article written by the Daily mail which is relavent to the comments that you post. 


Only the Awqaf is allowed to do the sermons in the United Arab Emirates, as you may already be aware it takes place in the Mosques before the Midday Prayer in Arabic and some Mosques have a translation in English after the prayer. 


If you would like to listen to a sermon then please do not hessitate to make your way to a Mosque which may have an English translation.


Therefore please respect other users on this thread as it is relative to the discussion that we are having with regards to the community facilities, like providing Mosques, which directly affect investors and the community.


I dont understand why you may feel upset about Mosques being built in JBR, Marina and JLT.


----------



## MarkWass

*I Know:*

As *Everyone Knows*, you are a master of the copy/ paste thing. Anyway you copied my below quote. I am interested to hear your comments on the latter part (in bold)?




I Know said:


> Originally Posted by *MarkWass*
> _Talking of 'religion and culture', having seen recent debates on this thread, and also having lived in both Edinburgh and Middle East, I understand both. If anything, I am more inclined to side with Muslim beliefs if the only other alternative was the UK chav 'religion'/culture. *BUT, sorry, the absence of regulation and control of criminals, continual ripping off of*Muslims and Christians and all other faiths... is unacceptable in this day and age surely?*_


The * thing wasn't intentional, by the way, just a glitch that happens when my cell/mobile phone randomly adds on SSC.. 

*I think*, that now even the investment gurus such as TPop and TB are slowly waking up to the fact that tried and tested shrewd property investor theory (location, location, location etc, etc…) is all very well, but sadly in this particular marketplace, text book theory is not all…


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> ^^ I Know, I'm guessing you are quite young and don't have much experience of real and diverse life.
> 
> I am a True Blue in every sense of the word and live up to my forum name, however I'm sure *you just think you know!!*
> 
> *Now stop wasting this thread with your anti Western Sermons!!*


You aint so TRUE and you are definitely BLUE. In fact you are very ignorant. You live in another country as a guest and wish to impose your BLUE slanted way of thinking. 

Instead of discussing constructively you have resorted to insults. Like I said maybe you need to get away from it all.

Above all you need to keep your quilt on


----------



## I Know

^^

It may be easy to reply in that manner on a keyboard but if you imagine the person in front of you, would you react in the same way.

It should not matter what insults someone throws at you, you should thank them or ignore it rather than do the same.


----------



## I Know

> *BUT, sorry, the absence of regulation and control of criminals, continual ripping off of*Muslims and Christians and all other faiths... is unacceptable in this day and age surely*?



Dear Mark Wass

There is no faith that would say this practice is normal, unfortunately it is prevalent, regardless of what day and age we are in.

However I am not sure if I can comment on the “BUT, Sorry,” I will try though, forgive me if I have misunderstood you. 

*If anything, I am more inclined to side with Muslim beliefs if the only other alternative was the UK chav 'religion'/culture. "But, Sorry,"*

There are many places you can get information if you require, however what you do with that information is entirely up to you.

*You also state “if the only other alternative was the UK chav 'religion'/culture”*

Do you mean to say that you have looked at other alternatives?

“When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish”.


----------



## MarkWass

^^ very true 'I Know'.

But this thread is supposed to be discussing matters as its title suggests. Even TP/TB who always used to continually pat themselves on the back for how 'smart' they thought they were for following basic schoolboy / text book resi property investment tactics, are starting to wake up.

As I, and many others can see, it's obvious, the potential (and liquidity of transactions) in this particular market can NEVER be fully achieved or even properly start until the day that the dodgy dealings are stamped out and no longer welcome. Actions, no longer 'words' needed in terms of regulation.

Talking of stamping out, now that you have been persuaded to stop the incessant copy/paste antics, I am interested to hear your views?


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> ^^ very true 'I Know'.
> 
> But this thread is supposed to be discussing matters as its title suggests. Even TP/TB who always used to continually pat themselves on the back for how 'smart' they thought they were for following basic schoolboy / text book resi property investment tactics, are starting to wake up.
> 
> As I, and many others can see, it's obvious, the potential (and liquidity of transactions) in this particular market can NEVER be fully achieved or even properly start until the day that the dodgy dealings are stamped out and no longer welcome. Actions, no longer 'words' needed in terms of regulation.
> 
> Talking of stamping out, now that you have been persuaded to stop the incessant copy/paste antics, I am interested to hear your views?


You are making statements of opinion about me that I dissagree with;

I did not use basic school boy / text book investment tactics, I used my own set of criterea and controls. 


Who is the developer? If they have no track record then what about the rest of the team?
Who are the other members of the design and build team?
Ensure payment plan is not front loaded and has payment stages realistic spread over the construction phase, final payment should be high as possible and not something silly like 5% or 10%on completion.
End of desk study, site visit stage; 

Visit the short list plots to establish location and likely views.
Have they started construction on any of their sites yet? 
Does the plot have established infrastructure, utilities, services on hand?
If all the above boxes are ticked then take your pick and make a deposit. A bit of due dilligence can seriously reduce the risks and improve the chances of a successful outcome.

I note that I constantly get miss quoted on this forum now and am trying to work out if it is deliberate or just people not paying attention:dunno:


----------



## MarkWass

^^ TB, I'm no Warren Buffet, neither are you, but I pay very close attention.

To be clear, I have no probs with your logic and don't think personally I have ever misquoted you. Have I? If I have, please elaborate...

However, I struggle to see how logic (text book or not), due diligence etc, has much relevance, in terms of long term REALITY, when used as a basis of investment choice in a particular product / location... works in an effectively completely unregulated marketplace.

Out of interest, honestly, do you work for RERA?


----------



## wissam11

Having read the story of Lawns 2, I sent an email to RERA asking about Lawns 5. this is their reply.

Dear Mr. Wissam,

Thank you for your email below, please be aware, that the project (Lawns V) under the developer “Dheeraj East Coast” Projects has been cancelled officially recently. 

Actually, for the same developer some of the projects are still active and few were formally cancelled lately.

There are many projects ahead yours. We are liquidating project according to the official cancellation date (from old to new). In addition to that, whenever we are done with a project we start with the next to it auto.

We consider each project individually as it got it owns conditions and cases.

Regarding to the money refund, well actually it depends on the availability money in the escrow account. And, it divided by percentage to all investors.

The time frame for the liquidating process depends on the approval status from “Dubai Courts”, to begin liquidating investor's unit by the court accounts or through our section. There is no time frame for the exact reimbursement method.

If there is any update about this issue, we will try to contact investors.

I am ensuring you that one of the main steps of the liquidation is to announce through local Arabic & English newspaper. We ask for the original documents to bring within 2 weeks from the official announcement. 

We have special email address for the projects under liquidation which is: [email protected]. 

For your convenient please send your details (Project Name, Unit # & Investor Name) to it, as a first step of gathering data from you.


----------



## Spurs

Markwass I'm interested to know if you were to choose a real estate investment what your criteria would be?


----------



## TerryPop

HP Printers - hate them.


----------



## True Blue

MarkWass said:


> ^^ TB, I'm no Warren Buffet, neither are you, but I pay very close attention.
> 
> To be clear, I have no probs with your logic and don't think personally I have ever misquoted you. Have I? If I have, please elaborate...
> 
> However, I struggle to see how logic (text book or not), due diligence etc, has much relevance, in terms of long term REALITY, when used as a basis of investment choice in a particular product / location... works in an effectively completely unregulated marketplace.
> 
> Out of interest, honestly, do you work for RERA?


No I don't work for RERA.

You miss quote me by your statement that I am beginning to wake up. When have I ever changed my view of what happened in the past. Times are changing now certainly but if I were to go back to 2005, I wouldn't do anything different. We all knew the property market in 2005 was unregulated but did anyone care? No, they were blinded by the stories of the 100% profit in a month from all the flippers. No one gave a shit about regulation when there was money being made left right and centre. Now the bubble has burst everyone is bleating about an unregulated market. Not that I am defending Dubai's lack of regulation, I am just making the point we all knew but still jumped in with our life saving. Caveate emptor, unregulated therefore more due dilligence including standing in front of the plot with the glossy brochure in your hand and asking yourself, REALLY???

If you struggle to see my logic then you are struggling to accept that what I did was right. It worked, my apartments are something like 4 years old now and have returned more than half of the original capital sum invested. My exposure is lessening every year and rents in the properties I chose are also starting to rise again. That suggests that the basic stuff, location, location, etc was done correctly also. This is 2012 now and the market is no longer completely unregulated, there are established laws and as a result, courts with backlogs of claims.

If you keep quoting me as an example in your argument, then I'm likely to offer my tupence worth if I don't particularly agree with the context. Try and absorb what I am saying for a change instead of discarding it always.


----------



## True Blue

Spurs said:


> Markwass I'm interested to know if you were to choose a real estate investment what your criteria would be?


I am interested to know what his criterea was when he made his purchases? Most people went for the one with the nicest brochure!


----------



## TerryPop

Well at least this beats the Mosque debate.

your turn Markie.


----------



## UAE Investor

Spurs said:


> Markwass I'm interested to know if you were to choose a real estate investment what your criteria would be?


:lol:


----------



## I Know

MarkWass said:


> ^^ very true 'I Know'.
> 
> But this thread is supposed to be discussing matters as its title suggests. Even TP/TB who always used to continually pat themselves on the back for how 'smart' they thought they were for following basic schoolboy / text book resi property investment tactics, are starting to wake up.
> 
> As I, and many others can see, it's obvious, the potential (and liquidity of transactions) in this particular market can NEVER be fully achieved or even properly start until the day that the dodgy dealings are stamped out and no longer welcome. Actions, no longer 'words' needed in terms of regulation.
> 
> Talking of stamping out, now that you have been persuaded to stop the incessant copy/paste antics, I am interested to hear your views?




Now that you have your answer that *you* posted in *this thread*.



You can PM me if you would like to ask anything further with regards to my answer.



Yes Mosques are relative just as any other facilities and provide the people with what they would require in any property development that takes place in the United Arab Emirates.



The thread is Property & Investment in Dubai: Your questions about the market, Mosques are an integral part of the community here and it has an effect on the investors who have purchased property but don’t have a Mosque in the area.


----------



## I Know

True Blue said:


> No I don't work for RERA.
> 
> You miss quote me by your statement that I am beginning to wake up. When have I ever changed my view of what happened in the past. Times are changing now certainly but if I were to go back to 2005, I wouldn't do anything different. *We all knew the property market in 2005 was unregulated but did anyone care? No*, *they were blinded by the stories of the 100% profit in a month from all the flippers*. No one gave a shit about regulation when there was money being made left right and centre. Now the bubble has burst everyone is bleating about an unregulated market. Not that I am defending Dubai's lack of regulation, I am just making the point we all knew but still *jumped* in with our life saving. *Caveate emptor, unregulated therefore more due dilligence including standing in front of the plot with the glossy brochure in your hand and asking yourself*, *REALLY*???
> 
> If you struggle to *see my logic *then you are struggling to accept that what I did was *right*. It worked, my apartments are something like 4 years old now and have returned more than half of the original capital sum invested. My exposure is lessening every year and rents in the properties I chose are also starting to rise again. That suggests that the basic stuff, location, location, etc was done correctly also. *This is 2012 now and the market is no longer completely unregulated, there are established laws and as a result, courts with backlogs of claims.*If you keep quoting me as an example in your argument, then I'm likely to offer my tupence worth if I don't particularly agree with the context. Try and absorb what I am saying for a change instead of discarding it always.





The ways in which you have summed up the last 6/7 years of this market are true.


Now the frenzy is over, the ones who simply fell for the “get rich quick” idea are the ones who seem to think they are the only ones who have lost. You can’t buy experience.


There are winners and losers in every upsurge and in every sector, OFF PLAN is and will always be a risky avenue to go down.


This scenario is similar to the whole endowment policy debacle that took place in the UK, some banks paid back when they were forced to for miss selling policies with the dream of having a windfall lump sum at the end of the term, investors who got caught up in them lost when the policy had matured, in some cases the principle amount wasn’t paid back let alone any profit.


Although there are similarities with the two, the property market here is subject to a barrage of variables, which can a do change very frequently.


Fortunately HP printers are not one of them.


As the saying goes, “ All roads don’t lead to Rome”


----------



## MarkWass

Spurs - in answer to your question, regarding real estate investment criteria: that's not easy to put into a few words, but it's not exactly rocket science, the most important factor being simple common sense and experience, and varies depending on particular goal (capital growth or income return, expected tenant demand, anticipated length of holding asset, portfolio risk spread eg some safer(but more costly), some riskier(low cost but higher potential/risk) etc)..

As it happens, I have never had an issue with TBs logic, with regards to investment criteria.

However what I do have a problem with, is some of the early off plan investors taking the high moral ground over off plan investors who were 1 year later, whom they deem fools. Many of the developers were the same, similar locations (eg adjoining site), similar 'product'. The main difference being time, and the fact that market players learning from each other how to get away with tricks. Behaviour of the very same developers deteriorated..


----------



## speculator

This scenario is similar to the whole endowment policy debacle that took place in the UK said:


> *In fact that pales in comparison to the pensions miss-selling scandal.*
> 
> ALSO
> 
> In the UK property market during the boom years numerous scams occurred with individuals losing life savings. Confidence tricksters marketed pooled buy to let investment schemes and raked in millions and disappeared along with the money. The properties did not exist. Many have also been sucked into the failed apartment developments which have lost upto 50% value.This happened in a mature market with no protection or recourse for the victims.
> 
> Obviously no comfort for the UAE victims.
> 
> Lets hope the UAE gets it right some day with the regulations and consumer protection.


----------



## I Know

^^

Yes good points you make.

You also must of heard about the Land banking scam that was going on in the UK, they tried to fleece people here as I saw a stand at the Mazaya centre on SZR.

Green belt farm land divided into plots and sold with a promise of planning that they knew full well was never going to happen.


If you can see the gravy train.

Your already too LATE


----------



## speculator

I Know said:


> ^^
> 
> Yes good points you make.
> 
> You also must of heard about the Land banking scam that was going on in the UK, they tried to fleece people here as I saw a stand at the Mazaya centre on SZR.
> 
> Green belt farm land divided into plots and sold with a promise of planning that they knew full well was never going to happen.


Not only heard of it: I nearly get sucked into that one. It was only when I saw one being pushed local to me that I saw the light as I was very well aquainted with the green belt. It was a massive scam and to be honest the smartest of us can get caught out.


----------



## Paid-User

*New Wind investors*

Go to the Wind Tower site www.windtowers.net for the latest anouncement. There seems to be good news - maybe?


----------



## mowy2611

So how come construction is commencing and most investors didn't pay?

For those who didn't pay, have you received any official notice from RERA?

Has anyone spoken to ACI recently?


----------



## I Know

Not only are Mosques required in the new Dubai areas to provide worshippers ease in new residential areas like JBR, Marina and JLT to name a few, people are calling for Prayer rooms at all metro stations too.

Will be good for the real estate market as Muslims will prefer to live near a Mosque, can commute on the metro and have all the facilities they would require 

:banana:





> *Prayer rooms required*
> 
> Public transport users should be provided the facility to pray at Dubai Metro stations
> 
> Gulf News Published: 00:00 February 16, 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image Credit: Illustration By Dana A. Shams/©Gulf News
> 
> 
> Gulf News reader Sheeba Nazar wanted to draw the attention of the authorities to the lack of prayer rooms at Dubai Metro stations.
> 
> She wrote: ‘There are no prayer rooms in the Metro stations.
> 
> A prayer room doesn’t take much space and there are such rooms in other public places, like the malls.
> 
> So, why not in the stations?
> 
> The authorities should have one built at every stop so that public transport users have a proper place to pray.
> 
> 
> Comments (11)
> 
> Added 18:12 February 16, 2012
> *it is very good thinking to make prayer rooms in the metro stations. let us hope for the best.*
> Anonymous, dubai, United Arab Emirates
> 
> Added 17:30 February 16, 2012
> *Al Hamdulillah .. it is a great Observation. Gulf News should contact Dubai Metro Authorities and Inform this as normally do with complaints. It will be taken as thousand requests .. and all of us are waiting for your update*
> Afzal, Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
> 
> Added 17:02 February 16, 2012
> *Great Point the only "missing'' thing on metro station !*
> Mohammad Othman, Dubai, United Arab Emirates
> 
> Added 15:49 February 16, 2012
> *Authorities must make it their priority to provide the prayer spaces in metro stations. Prayer spaces are really necessary.*
> Habib, Shj, Afghanistan
> 
> Added 14:10 February 16, 2012
> *It is best observation and since it is islamic country it very much required at every metro stations.*
> Anonymous, Dubai, United Arab Emirates
> 
> Added 13:41 February 16, 2012
> *Point focused, I hope this will be implement very soon.*
> Anonymous, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates
> 
> Added 11:58 February 16, 2012
> *great post! I think we all request authorities to look into such a matter. Prayer rooms are essential in such places, as stated it only takes up little space.*
> omani, dubai, United Arab Emirates
> 
> Added 11:25 February 16, 2012
> *I appreciate your valuable suggestion on this matter*
> Sharaf, Dubai, United Arab Emirates
> 
> Added 11:24 February 16, 2012
> *I think this is a good Idea as almost malls have prayer place. Metro stations are like,many people traveling so they must have a prayer hall at every station. It would be a great help!!*
> Anonymous, Dubai, United Arab Emirates
> 
> Added 11:03 February 16, 2012
> *I have faced this problem myself multiple times,even at the bus stations,except for Burdubai [ghubaiba] none of the stops i use have a mosque or praying area.I salute the writer of this suggestion.*
> rubina, sharjah, United Arab Emirates


http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/community-reports/prayer-rooms-required-1.981402


Altogether lovley


----------



## noir-dresses

Just by interest, and no disrespect by my question. If everybody does all this praying, everywhere, five times a day, who's going to run the city/country effectively ???

I'm guessing the expat's, but what if they start felling Dubai's turning into another Afganistan, and decide to avoid the place ???

It's a double edge sword, visually Dubai is heading in the direction of a modern metropolis, mentally, well there is some catching up to do with the rulers vision, and echos of the fears/dislikes are easier than ever to hear from the locals.

What's the true formula to keep everybody happy, living in peace, and harmony ??? 

I'm also sure the ruling family realize they're day's would be numbered if the country went a little to conservative with the people only having god to fear. 

Now throw that equation into foreigner's needed/wanted to keep the realestate market thriving in the UAE. In the end no expat really needs to be there, nor has to be there, would you agree with me ? 

Can you see this as being a clash of civilizations, or mending ???


----------



## torres9

maximus1 said:


> well i have just had a phone call this morning from david lewis tfg.
> i asked if tfg has or should have notified any of its clients that rentals were terrible and not as they had said.
> david lewis replies, wether we should have communicated that things were bad, NO not from our companys stand point.
> my question to him, have you ever as a company sent out email re poor performance to clients.
> david lewis, reply NO. BECAUSE THE ONLY PROPERTY THAT WE HAVE COMPLETED ON IS THE DIAMOND, its fully sold out but rents and owners are dissapointed at returns they are getting?
> things were said between us and went on a bit.
> david lewis, says to me so you have spoken to a couple of investors?
> me, yes i am posting my acccount online, as if i can save one person from going down the road i have gone down, its worth it.
> DAVID LEWIS says, im not trying to threaten you in any way at all max, but we do know , and have ways of finding out whats going on line, and if we do not feel comfortable with whats being said we will take action to protect our corporate image.
> im not try to threaten you but if we see somything we are not happy with we will have to take action.
> me to him,
> all i have ever said on line is the truth and i can prove it, and if we do end up in court ill only ever tell the truth and somone will listen to me.
> 
> we then went on a bit more, basically david lewis was saying that nothing could be done by tfg, and i went on to say ok put everything that we have discussed in writing as i shall be pursuing a legal route.
> i shall try and work out a way of putting this telephone conversation on line so that all can hear.
> if they do threaten me i shall let you all know what they say.
> ill keep on posting
> a copy of this is going to be forwarded to daany lubert one of the first groups directors


How did it go? Did they refund you?


----------



## smussuw

^^ lol wtf. Prayers take about 5 minutes each (5*5=25 minutes) between 5 am to 8 PM so it doesn't make a difference. Beside, the majority of expatriates are either muslims or come from conservative societies so again it doesn't make a difference.

The only bug here is the western bug which try to blow things out of proportion and make up problems. The right equation is for everyone to know their place in the country and that is by people knowing that they are here as guests only and therefor should act like one.


----------



## noir-dresses

Thank you for making that so clear to us.


----------



## smussuw

^^ anytime habibi :cheers::banana:


----------



## noir-dresses

Just before I go out Habibi is that what they teach/preach you in the police force, or is it just a personal view of yours ???

Interested to know, that's all.


----------



## smussuw

^^ personal


----------



## True Blue

smussuw said:


> The only bug here is the western bug which try to blow things out of proportion and make up problems. The right equation is for everyone to know their place in the country and that is by people knowing that they are here as guests only and therefor should act like one.



If we build it they will come...............but they must know their place and remember that they are only guests in our country even if we encouraged them to buy a piece of it!

Can you clarify what you mean by "they should act like one"?

I am trying to imagine talking at a conference for foreign doctors working in the UK and saying to them, "remember you are a guest in this country and therefore you should act like one." Is it patronage or patronising? Either way, I would not have the right to say it in the first place. I don't make the laws in my country, just obey them like anyone else.

IMO the foreign worker will have more right to be there serving the community and paying his taxes, than some lazy good for nothing who has never done a job of work in his life. It is not where they are from, it is what they contribute to the community that improves the community. 

You need to get used to foreigners being in Dubai, it's what your Sheikh wanted. Not just for the financial stability in the future but for the added security it affords now!


----------



## Androider

mowy2611 said:


> So how come construction is commencing and most investors didn't pay?
> 
> For those who didn't pay, have you received any official notice from RERA?
> 
> Has anyone spoken to ACI recently?


No idea, but looks like they are finishing 32nd SLAB .... good job.


----------



## speculator

noir-dresses said:


> Just by interest, and no disrespect by my question. If everybody does all this praying, everywhere, five times a day, who's going to run the city/country effectively ???
> 
> I'm guessing the expat's, but what if they start felling Dubai's turning into another Afganistan, and decide to avoid the place ???
> 
> It's a double edge sword, visually Dubai is heading in the direction of a modern metropolis, mentally, well there is some catching up to do with the rulers vision, and echos of the fears/dislikes are easier than ever to hear from the locals.
> 
> What's the true formula to keep everybody happy, living in peace, and harmony ???
> 
> I'm also sure the ruling family realize they're day's would be numbered if the country went a little to conservative with the people only having god to fear.
> 
> Now throw that equation into foreigner's needed/wanted to keep the realestate market thriving in the UAE. In the end no expat really needs to be there, nor has to be there, would you agree with me ?
> 
> Can you see this as being a clash of civilizations, or mending ???


:lol::lol:Sorry to be rude but thats probably the most myopic post I have ever seen. 

To help you understand: not everyone converges to prayer at the same time 5 times a day. Each prayer period has a time window around say 2-3 hours. Its only the friday prayer, tarawi and Eid prayers that require the jamat.

Also just because the facility of a mosque is available does not mean that it will be full at all times. Its just nice to have the facility available. Does everyone congregate to the communal swimming pools ? No ! but its nice to have one around. 

Finally WTF has Afganistan got to do with all of this:nuts:


----------



## True Blue

speculator said:


> .......................
> WTF has Afganistan got to do with all of this:nuts:


How much foreign investment has Kabul been able to attract in the last 10 years? What about the tourism industry or airline business?


----------



## Towers3

I Know, are u an investor?


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> How much foreign investment has Kabul been able to attract in the last 10 years? What about the tourism industry or airline business?


You really don't understand the place do you ? Its a lot more complicated than your simple daily mail views.

Very short history for you :

Afghanistan was a progressive country and had quite a sophisticated public in the 50's, 60's 70's. Remember they are a very old civilisation, before the west even exsisted, with a diverse ethnic mix.

Anyway the misery of Afghanistan has much to do with the invasion by russia followed by the us. The us invaded to rob the country of its natural resources under the guise of capturing Tim Osman AKA Osama. 

India's RAW use Afghanistan in a proxy war against Pakistan whilst the notorious Pakistan ISI has worked hard to arm the Taliban to fight the us. Pakistan created the Taliban who were previously known as the Mujahaydeen against the russians. But obviously the us decided that they were now enemies after the us did the inside job on the twin towers. 

Wernt the us going to rebuild and free all those people and give them democracyhno:
Instead what they have done is totally destroyed the place and not achieved anything and not even captured or killed Tim Osman ( its not true it was all made up ). The story was concocted to show a result. 

So you see its not as simple as a Mosque 

So again WTF has Afghanistan got to do with the Mosques in Dubai ?


----------



## Imre

speculator said:


> So again WTF has Afghanistan got to do with the Mosques in Dubai ?


Same question , WTF has Afghanistan and Mosques about this thread which name is 

*Property & Investment in Dubai: Your questions about the market ‎* 

?

Back to the market:

*Dubai to see up to 16,000 more property units in 2012 - official*


DUBAI, Feb 15 (Reuters) - Dubai's property sector will see up to 16,000 new units come on the market this year, the head of its real estate watchdog said on Wednesday, adding further pressure to an already oversupplied sector. 

Supply in 2012 will be higher than in 2011 when about 10,700 new units were introduced. 

"Another 15,000 to 16,000 (units) are coming in 2012," Marwan bin Ghalitha, chief executive of Real Estate Regulatory Authority said at a conference. "Most of this supply will be from master developers. 

"About 62 projects were completed last year. I am sure the supply from these projects are coming in 2012." 

He said that 220 projects are now under construction in Dubai. 

Dubai's property sector has been hard hit by the global economic downturn that began in 2008, with billions of dollars worth of projects put on hold or cancelled while property prices slumped as much as 60 percent. 

High-profile projects put on hold or cancelled include Dubai Properties' Tiger Woods residential and golf course project and developer Nakheel's kilometre-high tower. 

Ghalitha said the value of transactions for land, villas and apartments rose 20 percent in 2011 to 143 billion dirhams compared to 120 billion dirhams in 2010. 

"There is still a lot of demand for real estate in Dubai but its selective long-term projects," said Galitha. 

Dubai house prices are expected to fall by 5 percent in 2012, after having fallen by two-third from its peak in 2008, a Reuters poll showed last month. 

(Reporting by Praveen Menon; Editing by Amran Abocar) 

http://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/dubai-see-16-000-more-property-units-2012-125626503.html


----------



## firoz bharmal

^^ Prayer dosent make any country to Afghanistan.....5 Minutes of Prayer is better to spend then sitting in Bars for hours........Dubai is the most vibrant city and......Everyone Invited......:rock:

Back to Topic........carry on......


----------



## Jodel

williamX said:


> Hi Abbasin!
> 
> I advice you to choose Emarati manager, on my experience they always sincerely trying to find better ways&solutions. Europeans&Subcontinental people don't like to take extra responsibility and more often say "NO".
> It's all based on my own experience.


I have this same experience with non-Arab management. They are not given any authority just a title of "manager" - sometimes.
Good experience also with ADIB further down the Beach Road in Umm Suquem I or 2. They have very "accommodating" managers and personal service in Priority section if you have the correct passport.


----------



## williamX

Jodel said:


> I have this same experience with non-Arab management. They are not given any authority just a title of "manager" - sometimes.
> Good experience also with ADIB further down the Beach Road in Umm Suquem I or 2. They have very "accommodating" managers and personal service in Priority section *if you have the correct passport*.


Correct input. In past i had experience with western managers - most of them see us thru "western" stereotypes about russians, by their version russians has money of: 1) Criminal (Russian mafia etc.), 2) money laundering. :lol: In same time they open accounts with pleasure for those westerners who hiding tax money. :lol: It is very funny.


----------



## Jodel

^^


williamX said:


> Correct input. In past i had experience with western managers - most of them see us thru "western" stereotypes about russians, by their version russians has money of: 1) Criminal (Russian mafia etc.), 2) money laundering. :lol: In same time they open accounts with pleasure for those westerners who hiding tax money. :lol: It is very funny.


"Like"


----------



## Ruslan Isin

bister said:


> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/investor-spends-217k-chasing-aci-gets-nothing-447426.html
> 
> I am sure you must all be comfortable that your investment is in the safe hands of ACI. Also you can be comfortable that any future dispute you may have with this firm will be handled as diligently as was the case described in Arabian Business.
> 
> I am currently in Supreme Court with ACI after having won in two instances and is also progressing with an Execution Case. Obviously the first asset that my lawyers will attach are land, buildings and materials of Dubai Star, currently being developed by.....ACI.


Bister, if your lawyers say that they can take the land from the project, which is been paid by investors, leave these illiterate scammers. It is impossible and illegally. They are deceiving you. I affirm as a lawyer with the experience of 18 years.
Guys, Bister is a real provocateur, and his target that some stupid did not pay, and his property will pass to bister. Think with your head.


----------



## SagarDubai

Dear Friends, to clear all your doubts and also mine, I had been to The Lawns 2, Lawns 4 and Lawns 5. There is no work going on at all at Lawns 2. The sand has begun to cave in from the shoring work! The fence is almost falling off. Work is going on in full swing at Lawns 4. There was the usual Lawns 4 board and the contractor is AROMA and the appointed consultant is Dimensions. I found alots of workers n enginners on site and also the crane in place. The roofs for 2 basement roofs are done and there were trying to raise the columns ment for the ground floor roof. Over all it looks really good. Regarding Lawns 5, the name board is there in place. Deep escavation and shoring work is done, but work is not going on at the moment. Found some construction material belonging to Lawns 4 lying in Lawns 5. My honest take is that once Lawns 4 is done, they might start work at Lawns 5. I am planning to meet teh DEC guys and ask then for a swap to Lawns 4.


----------



## SagarDubai

Heard that DEC are doing their best to accomodate people to other projects that they might start soon. So friends lets try to meet the DEC guys and try to sort it out peacefully as its in our interest. By going to RERA or courts will not lead to anything. Getting the refund is waste as it will come in drips and drabs. Our objective was to get an apt, so we have to puruse it.


----------



## MMDXB

Dear SagarDubai...you are very optimistic on that. I went earlier to DEC and talked to there Manager. They offered me a swap from LAWNS II to LAWNS IV. Ok very nice but they tried to sell it to me for the same price ( approx 615 AED/sqm ) like I bought in 2008. Be aware the current market price over there is between 300 - 400 AED/sqm. So please let us know what they offer to you but I guess they try to cheat you again....Also if possible you took pics from your visit if you can post them ?


----------



## Abbasin

Jodel said:


> You will need to be in Dubai in person to open the account because of recent Anti Money Laundering checks from Central Bank.
> A savings/investment account can be opened by non-resident. Bad news is interest rates are very low just now - around 2%, even profit rate is down with ADIB and other Islamic banks
> 
> Also - congrats on your first post after 4 years. I have just achieved 100 after 5 years of "lurking"
> Jo


thanks for the information. The interest from european banks are not better though.

:lol:i have 1 year to go, after 4 years of Lurking, to achieve 100.


----------



## VR6

would be interested to hear what your lawyer has to say indeed whether there is still any money in the account! I am based in the UK so what would be the process for me to take them to arbitration? TIA


----------



## mowy2611

Guys can we have a count of who has paid and who hasn't? Please reply

I haven't paid yet, I'm waiting for the official communication from RERA


----------



## ummbutti

SagarDubai said:


> I had been to The Lawns 2, Lawns 4 and Lawns 5. There is no work going on at all at Lawns 2. .


Thanks so Much Sagar, Can you post Photos if you have?


----------



## SagarDubai

Dear MMDXB, Iam very optimistic cos I felt that DEC this time was genuinly trying to help their customers swap to other projects. If you were offered a swap for a price of 615/swft, then just grab the offer as u cannot get a better deal than this. cos in 2008 the price was 800 and never in 600s. If u r getting the swap for the same price u bought then, then just grab it... its better for u to get into the flat u had inteded to stay rather than waiting for the court to refund.. which I think will take years... unless u want to now back off now!! Think about it.. In JVC there are people already staying there.. u will find families, gocery and laundry there... u will also find taxis coming in there... within couple of years the price will go up.... 

BTW I did not click any pics... may be next time I will do it.


----------



## MMDXB

Be very careful....I bought my apartment for 610 !!! AED/sqft in 2008 and exact same price they offered me now. I checked with some friends and searched the internet Jumeirah Village Area is currently listed as I said with 300 - 400 AED/sqft. This is almost the half price. First of all when you go there they will offer you exact same price how you bought so if you paid 800 AED/sqft you maybe pay more then double then someone who bought it later....you really wanna do that ? The prices need to be renegotiate and adjusted according to 2012 and market prices....The Boom is over....If they offer me something for around 300 - 400 I'm ready to swap.....apart from that they will ask you for Transfer Fee of 25000 AED which they actually should do it for free.....


----------



## ummbutti

MMDXB said:


> Be very careful....I bought my apartment for 610 !!! AED/sqft in 2008 and exact same price they offered me now. I checked with some friends and searched the internet Jumeirah Village Area is currently listed as I said with 300 - 400 AED/sqft. This is almost the half price. First of all when you go there they will offer you exact same price how you bought so if you paid 800 AED/sqft you maybe pay more then double then someone who bought it later....you really wanna do that ? The prices need to be renegotiate and adjusted according to 2012 and market prices....The Boom is over....If they offer me something for around 300 - 400 I'm ready to swap.....apart from that they will ask you for Transfer Fee of 25000 AED which they actually should do it for free.....


:yes: 100% Agreed


----------



## sgn7200

ummbutti said:


> :yes: 100% Agreed


I think the market price of AED 300 or 400 or 800 is irrelevant as we are swapping a depleted asset with another depleted asset. If you think you are ever going to get your money back, I think that looks improbable in Dubai and far less possible with DEC. Mind you, they don't have money and how can you hope to have any refunds. They will prefer to spend whatever little they have on court cases rather than pay you. Therefore, sensible thing is to focus your attention on AED25,000 which they are demanding and we should refuse to pay. They have messed us around for far too long and they do not deserve AED25, let alone AED25,000. My view is accept a swap but do not pay any of their transfer fees.


----------



## Imre

*MFR Properties: Million-dirham trap for landlords, tenants and brokers*

*MFR owner speaks exclusively to Emirates24|7 with “promise to pay all”; DLD suspends MFR licence, begins probe*

By Majorie van LeijenPublished Thursday, March 08, 2012 

The Dubai Land Department (DLD) has begun an investigation into MFR Properties and has suspended the company’s licence, revealed the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera).

Millions of dirhams belonging to landlords and hundreds of frustrated, angry and desperate tenants are at stake.

Rera issued a statement to Emirates 24|7 which stated: "The Dubai Land Department has immediately investigated the issue and started looking into the submitted complaints. 

“As a precautionary measure, DLD has suspended the license (of MFR) and is looking into complaints in order to preserve the rights of all parties."

The case, however, is complicated and the turn of events so far, opaque.

Uniquely, parties who are normally on the opposite sides of the negotiating table – owners, commission brokers and tenants – have all been hit and are now uniting to seek justice.

The accusation is that they have been cheated by MFR and want their money back.

A recent meeting of the aggrieved parties was held in a mall to rally those affected and come up with a more focused plan of action.

A web forum has been created to discuss what action can be taken.

The problem appears to be widespread and new victims are popping up by the day. 

The Property Owners

Sahil Khosla, one of the property owners affected, explains how he got hit. Last year, he authorised MFR Properties to sublease his property.

As agreed per contract, the sublease was to be paid for in four cheques.

However, the third cheque bounced. He was informed by the bank that the MFR account was closed.

Mohammed, another landlord, encountered a similar problem. “My property is a villa in Springs 14. I bought this villa in July 2011, and the agent I bought it from referred me to MFR to put it on rent.

“They offered me Dh160,000 with payment in four cheques.”

Similar to Sahil, the first two cheques were cleared, but the third bounced.

“I contacted my commission agent and she told me that she will get the cheques exchanged from MFR. I kept on following up for two weeks, but they kept on saying ‘tomorrow, tomorrow’. Eventually, my agent gave up and told me to go to the police.”

http://www.emirates247.com/business...lords-tenants-and-brokers-2012-03-08-1.447292


----------



## W40arx

I have!


----------



## MMDXB

I negotiated it down with the approval of there CFO to 10.000 AED but the main fact is they give you the offer and you have 7 days time to decide. If you don't accept on the 8th day they say it's gone which is bullshit but they playing a very nice game....Personally I would not agree getting a overpriced swap. I discussed with my Landlord who is from the area in India where the owner from DEC is from and he was just saying that these guys have money compare to other agencies who maybe disappeared already....So I definitely know I lost a lot of money but I rather start fresh then having for the coming years that weight on my leg....but this need to decide everyone for himself.....I think if you accept that swap now for your old price the market will never go up again to reach even that level....


----------



## Towers3

We are starting petition to RERA. It is not project specific. Everybody who would like to join us is welcome.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dubai_sport_city/

Please, whe you sign in the comment section include your project and DOC - date of completion according to your contract.
Thank you in advance.


----------



## Ahmed N

W40arx said:


> I have!



I have, but you will find loads of investors not on this forum. so how can you gauge who has or who has not paid!!!!
Surely you can see that RERA/ACI are progressing with this project - please payup so we can get our apartment.....


----------



## UAE Investor

Please give this a moment of your time 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=115413&page=127

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dubai_sport_city/


hno:


----------



## Josau

Can somebody advise me on how long it takes nowadays to get approval by RERA for service charge budget? It seems that our building has been asking of the RERA approval of the 2012 service charge budget since the end of december and it still has not gone through. Is this possible?


----------



## mowy2611

For those who didn't pay, u should receive a letter from RERA soon


----------



## DDDXB

Hi all. I am also a victim of DEC. And thank you, I learned about the cancellation of Lawns 2.Already written letters to them. Change for the Lawns 4 - a very risky. To build a second floor and stop. Then the money just can not see '.
MMDXB do you have news from RERA?


----------



## bizzybonita

Off topic : RAK Break News...

Real Mardid FC want to invest on RAK ( Real Mardid Island )










http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/22032012/58/liga-real-madrid-build-1-billion-uae-holiday-resort.html


----------



## v8_

*Guidance about Investment*

I've just joined forums.

I've around 500-600k aed budget and interested to invest in appt, in JLT or Marina side. Most probably Studio in 5star bldg.

Can experts guide me on following;

1) What is response of Studio for rental and resale in both areas. Is it wise to buy Studio considering Rental and Resale or shall I consider 1BHK.
2) Which bldgs you recommend in Marina & JLT. Please name few considering above.
3) What you'd choose for above: JLT or Marina.

Note: I'll sale it with-in 2-3 years period. Please give resale as priority.

Thanks for your time and help.


----------



## diku

v8_ said:


> I've just joined forums.
> 
> I've around 500-600k aed budget and interested to invest in appt, in JLT or Marina side. Most probably Studio in 5star bldg.
> 
> Can experts guide me on following;
> 
> 1) What is response of Studio for rental and resale in both areas. Is it wise to buy Studio considering Rental and Resale or shall I consider 1BHK.
> 2) Which bldgs you recommend in Marina & JLT. Please name few considering above.
> 3) What you'd choose for above: JLT or Marina.
> 
> Note: I'll sale it with-in 2-3 years period. Please give resale as priority.
> 
> Thanks for your time and help.


Considering your budget and requirements:
1. Studio might be good option for renting but i prefer 1 Bed. Studio is popular among working single or couple only. 
2. considering budget, its difficult to find 1 bed in Marina in popular towers.
3. My personal pref. is Marina.... I always think it before buy... which type of tenant i will get? They want to take it as leisure or requirement? Marina is for Fun and JLT might be for working class in future due to office towers around.So sure they will negotiate hard for Rent.
4. You never know about resale in this market. 2 - 3 years is little less for ROI you might have to keep it longer.... Yes Rental yield is highest if you see internationally.(7-10%)


----------



## bister

mowy2611 said:


> For those who didn't pay, u should receive a letter from RERA soon


Interesting that RERA is sending collection letters to investors. RERA should be sending collection letters to ACI asking for refunds to the many investors left without money and property.

Anyways, we are making good progress legally and expect to seize land and defaulted units (belonging to ACI) in the Dubai Star building shortly. It is unfortunate for existing investors that the project is once again cast in doubt, but what can I do. ACI is the culprit and they need to answer for their misdeeds. 

To the ones of you that continue to trust ACI and RERA with your money and even continue making payments: Best of luck.


----------



## v8_

diku said:


> Considering your budget and requirements:
> 1. Studio might be good option for renting but i prefer 1 Bed. Studio is popular among working single or couple only.
> 2. considering budget, its difficult to find 1 bed in Marina in popular towers.
> 3. My personal pref. is Marina.... I always think it before buy... which type of tenant i will get? They want to take it as leisure or requirement? Marina is for Fun and JLT might be for working class in future due to office towers around.So sure they will negotiate hard for Rent.
> 4. You never know about resale in this market. 2 - 3 years is little less for ROI you might have to keep it longer.... Yes Rental yield is highest if you see internationally.(7-10%)


Thanks for the valuable suggestions.

I can extend my budget to 800+ but that will make me hand to mouth. But if you mean that investing in Studio can get risky from any angel then I can think of going for 1 bed ?

Is there is any data available that how many Studios are currently there in Marina, what is the demand of studios in comparison and how many are vacant? This will help me see real picture..

Also, can you recommend any good bldgs in Marina. 
Botanica seems reasonable but its developer has not much of good reviews. How about Royal Oceanic? There are many studios up for sale on dubizzle in it.


----------



## diku

v8_ said:


> Thanks for the valuable suggestions.
> 
> I can extend my budget to 800+ but that will make me hand to mouth. But if you mean that investing in Studio can get risky from any angel then I can think of going for 1 bed ?
> 
> Is there is any data available that how many Studios are currently there in Marina, what is the demand of studios in comparison and how many are vacant? This will help me see real picture..
> 
> Also, can you recommend any good bldgs in Marina.
> Botanica seems reasonable but its developer has not much of good reviews. How about Royal Oceanic? There are many studios up for sale on dubizzle in it.


Botanica is one of the best development. If you get good deal catch it.
800+ will be good for 1 Bed.
Try Majara or new Silverene as well.

visit local sites: 
www.dubizzle.com
www.propertyfinder.ae


----------



## v8_

^thanks a lot mate, really appreciated.

any other expert would like to give his views on above plz


----------



## Pleth

*A new scam*

One of my friends has sadly fallen for a new scam in Dubai. To warn everybody I will write the story here.
My friends found a 2 bedr. apartment at 100.000 aed which they wanted to rent. Terms of payment was 2 cheques.

The agent (lady called Donna) asked them to pay a deposit of 5.000 aed cash, give her the 2 cheques and sign the contract, which they did.
But then things went wrong.
The agent rang them and said that the owner (a Kazakhstani national) suddenly wanted 1 cheque instead of 2. My friend said that they could not manage 100.000 aed in one cheque. 
Then the owner agreed to 2 cheques but the first one dated 1 March and the next one 1 May!!!
My friend could not afford this and had to find another apartment.

Now the agent tells them that they cannot get their deposit back since they did not live in the apartment!! 
They have not even got their cheques back, but have cancelled them in the bank.

Be aware everybody.


----------



## Imre

They should give back the full deposit , which company was this?


----------



## VR6

any updates spindrifter?

Interestingly Aristocrat are listed as an approved developer, but under the project name 'The Royal Estates' there is the reply 'no project found', unless i am making an error in selection?


----------



## Pleth

Imre, it was IS Real Estate also called ISRE. Do you know them?


----------



## Imre

Dont know this.


----------



## Imre

*UAE studying uniform corporate tax rate move*

*No new taxes for at least two years: official*

By ReutersPublished Tuesday, March 27, 2012 

The United Arab Emirates is looking at introducing a uniform corporate tax rate across its seven states as it wants to reduce its dependence on oil revenue, the IMF said on Monday, but a government official said there would be no new taxes for at least two years.

At present each emirate has its own corporate tax rate but in practice corporate tax is only enforced on foreign oil companies and banks and many companies are based in tax-free zones.

Individuals do not pay income tax.

The UAE has been mulling plans to trim its fiscal dependence on volatile oil prices for the past few years and reform its tax system.

But deciding to impose a unified corporate tax would mark a major shift in philosophy for emirates such as Dubai, which has used a low-tax profile and tax-free zones to attract firms and cement its position as the Gulf Arab trade and financial hub.

"The authorities are conducting an economic impact study of a possible corporate income tax," the International Monetary Fund said in a report following regular consultations with UAE officials on the economy, adding it was one of several initiatives to diversify government revenue flows.

But Younis Al Khouri, undersecretary and director general at the UAE federal finance ministry, told Reuters the study was just a regular exercise with no new taxes planned for now: "It is only an impact study, nothing more than that. We have announced earlier that 2012, 2013 won't have any taxes."

"In case of anything we have to understand what is the social impact on people living in the UAE and what is the impact economically on doing business itself," he said.

The study would be completed in about nine months, he said.

Oil companies in the UAE currently pay up to 55 per cent corporate tax while banks pay around 20 per cent.

http://www.emirates247.com/business...m-corporate-tax-rate-move-2012-03-27-1.450666


----------



## MMDXB

Hello,

I have so far no news ! I guess we need bit patience. What about people here from LAWNS II meeting up to discuss what we can do ? Meeting someone from RERA or DEC in a group might be more helpful than each individual ?

What you guys thinks ?


----------



## DDDXB

I received a letter
_Good Morning,

Thank you for your email, the project has been officially cancelled.

Please send your details (Investor Name, Project, Unit # and contact) to: [email protected]

We will contact you when we will start liquidating the project.

Best regards,_


----------



## DDDXB

but the answers are automatically [email protected]


----------



## biyadoo

I had a couple of questions about the Dubai Land Department services:

What procedure to follow in order to remove one of the married partner's name from the title deed? (i.e. change it from a jointly owned property to a singly owned property)

What documents are required?

How long does it take to make an appointment in the Land Department for this procedure? (i.e. how soon do they usually give appointments?)

How long does the procedure take?


----------



## Jodel

*Dubai Land Dept "Services"*

I have some years experience in dealing with this Government Department. :bash:

All transactions are done face to face in person by visiting the large offices opposite Sheraton Creek, Go before 12.30 as they close up soon after that. 

To achieve a moderate result all advice seekers must be Arabic speaking.

A better result is achieved if you are also male.

Good luck
Jo.


----------



## busy boy

*your visit to rera*

Default - you probably spoke to one of the receptionists or admin staff. They won't know nothing. It's only the CEO office apparently who seems to know exactly which projects are officially cancelled.


----------



## akhiabani

*Developers sitting on our pile of money*

Why the developers do not feel any pressure to refund?

If Rholding and Chapal and Stargiga and so on were faced with hundreds of law suits then this catch 22 with have been over long time ago.
The issues are not about properties anymore.The laws are there for broken contracts and cancelations but who can afford them?
There needs to be affordable legal assistance.There has to be lawyers that work on the basis of pro bono or no win no fees.


----------



## Defaut

Hi Busy Boy, you might be right I have sent her an email, let's see If I'll get an answer. Any plans to get in a group you think?


----------



## MMDXB

well I guess an Mrs. Amal would tell the same....yes all I would think we should organize to get together and discuss what we can do or at least share personal experiences.....


----------



## axe2grind

*SO TEMPTED, ITS APRIL 1ST*



bister said:


> So Skinny, you argued that I was daft to suggest 2014 as the completion date for D1 and Versace. Now it appears that the developer is guessing Q4/2013 and combined with the apparent funding shortage described in Arabian Business today, we all know that 2015 is now more likely.
> 
> Skinny, please enjoy your slice of humble pie


When I first saw your prediction Bister I thought you were being wildly optomistic, LOL!!! 

The recent article by Arabian Business says it all about what everyone has known was happening with this development in that Emirates Sunland have been lying to investors regarding the delays and the causes of same. What an own goal by Enshaa!!! The only thing that hasn't been admitted is the fact that they have cynically been doing minimum work to give the impression to RERA that they are going to finish "someday" to keep getting money out of investors. Its 4 years late according to this article!!!! and I agree.

Suggestions of running cables and pipes under the Creek are fanciful at best and can only be achieved with further funds if viable. 

I have visited the site several times following the announcement of "loads of workers" descending on the site and found none the first time and last thursday only 10 to 15 scratching around. No work at all is happening on the hotel as is the case with work on the finishings, even the wildly inaccurate rate of completion given by RealPoint as 88% states that only 1% of the interior is complete. Something extremely wrong with their assessments. They didn't even know a Force Majeure notice had been issueded by ES, they are about as independent as a kangaroo court, (excuse the pun).

The Truth is that until and unless ES come up with a viable plan, and stick to it, it will always be conjecture as to when completion will be achieved.
Until then it is effectively stopped and has been since end of 2008.


----------



## anacreon

akhiabani said:


> Why the developers do not feel any pressure to refund?
> 
> If Rholding and Chapal and Stargiga and so on were faced with hundreds of law suits then this catch 22 with have been over long time ago.
> The issues are not about properties anymore.The laws are there for broken contracts and cancelations but who can afford them?
> There needs to be affordable legal assistance.There has to be lawyers that work on the basis of pro bono or no win no fees.


Unfortunately, there are few, if any, attorneys in the UAE who would contemplate working on that basis. Moreover, those that are prepared to do pro bono work tend to support human rights and other similar causes and not those whose problem is that one of their investments has gone bad.


----------



## akhiabani

*Affordable law*

human rights
pl.n.
The basic rights and freedoms to which all humans are entitled, often held to include the right to life and liberty, freedom of thought and expression, and equality before the law.
It is a government backed project and according to the same government's law the contract can be canceled with full refund and remedies only by going to a court.With the fees being so high,there is no equality before law.


----------



## javed907

can we increase rent after first year.i have a apartment at Churchill tower in business bay.i want to increase rent:rent was 42k for first year


----------



## javed907

Imre said:


> They should give back the full deposit , which company was this?


can we increase rent after first year.i have a apartment at Churchill tower in business bay.i want to increase rent:rent was 42k for first year


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Six sure signs that show Dubai’s economy is booming again*

*Promising numbers of first quarter point to blockbuster year*

_By Vicky Kapur
Published Monday, April 02, 2012_

Statistical and anecdotal evidence is mounting that Dubai is heading for what could be a blockbuster year for the economy.

After a handful of years that saw the emirate’s growth slow down from the impact of the global financial crisis, the economic engine seems to be roaring on full throttle, firing on all six cylinders that are considered its growth drivers.

The year 2012 is just a quarter old, but Dubai has shown some very promising signs already, including positive numbers on corporate income, trade and tourism front, as well as a huge improvement in investor sentiment, as evidenced from the stock market index and property prices in the emirate.

For all practical purposes, Dubai’s economy, diversified as it is, is powered by a number of sectors, including (in no particular order) real estate, logistics, trade, tourism, manufacturing and the financial services sector.

Let’s look at the sure signs that some of these sectors have displayed of late, particularly in Q1 2012, which point towards broader economic growth and hold the promise of a bumper year ahead.

*SURE SIGN #1: TOURISM IS BOOMING*

Although consolidated numbers for the first quarter of this year haven’t been made public yet, according the latest available data from the Dubai Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DTCM), Dubai topped the world in terms of hotel occupancy levels and average revenue per available room (RevPAR) for January 2012.

The emirate’s tourism regulatory body said Dubai hotels’ 86.2 per cent occupancy level in the first month of 2012 places it on top on the list of 15 top performance destinations, up from 75.4 per cent occupancy levels that Dubai hotels recorded in 2011.

In terms of RevPAR, data from STR Global shows that Dubai topped again in February 2012, with the emirate’s hotels earning $252.98 in the month for every room that they have, up from the fifth position that the emirate enjoyed last year with a RevPAR of $169.

Dubai ranks above global tourism heavyweights such as Hong Kong, Sydney, London, Tokyo, Paris, Los Angeles, New York, Buenos Aires, Toronto, Madrid, Berlin, Beijing and Rome.

“We have been successful in boosting the number of tourists to Dubai due to our initiatives to enhance our position in established markets and tap new and emerging tourism source markets. The substantial gains by hotels and hotel apartments reflect, once again, the vibrancy and dynamism of the tourism industry in the emirate,” said DTCM Director-General Khalid A bin Sulayem.

While the Arab Spring in certain countries of the Middle East added to regional risk perception, the consequent increase in tourism and investor interest that Dubai and the UAE in general have seen on account of being a political and financial safe haven, have led Dubai’s economy to benefit.

“As the UAE does not share the political and economic characteristics of regional countries under turmoil, no contagious unrest scenario was reported towards the Emirati landscape,” Bank Audi said in a report on the country. “On the contrary, Emirates are seemingly profiting from the indirect spillover effects of the redirection of business, trade and touristic flows from other countries in the Arab MENA region,” it said.

*SURE SIGN #2: PROPERTY PRICES ARE FIRMING UP*

You don’t really need statistical proof to figure that one out. Everyone in Dubai is either a landlord or a tenant – at times both – and, therefore, a majority of the emirate’s residents track the health of the property sector like they would track the stock market index or gold prices – on a daily basis.

And most of us are well aware that the Dubai property market is becoming buoyant once again. Asking prices for prime properties – villas and apartments in sought-after locations like the Emirates Hills area, the Greens, Jumeirah Beach Residence and Dubai Marina – are up, with rentals for such units inching up as well.

For the statistically inclined, here’s the proof in numbers: According to data from the Dubai Land Department (DLD), property sales in Dubai soared 54 per cent as value rose 32 per cent in the first quarter of 2012 compared with the same period last year. You can find more on the perking-up property prices here and here.

DLD data shows that a total of 654 residential property transactions, comprising apartments, villas and townhouses, were registered in Q1 2012 compared with 426 in Q1 2011. In value terms, a 32 per cent increase to Dh5.24 billion was registered against Dh3.96 billion in Q1 2011. That’s a sure sign of investor interest and sentiment in the emirate’s property market moving northwards.

With real estate considered a strong pillar of the Dubai economy, a buoyant property market reflects the underlying commercial strength and fundamentally strong economic growth in the emirate, which is in turn boosting demand and prices in Dubai.

*SURE SIGN #3: TRADE IS THRIVING*

Data for trade is generally lagging, but available data (until Q3 2011) shows a huge improvement in trade numbers over the previous period. According to official numbers, Dubai’s non-oil total trade exceeded Dh814 billion at the end of third quarter of 2011, an increase of 23 per cent compared with the same period of 2010, when it reached Dh661 billion.

Ahmed Butti Ahmed, the Executive Chairman of Ports, Customs and Free Zone Corporation, and Director-General of Dubai Customs, said that these numbers reflect the UAE’s strong and dynamic economy.

“There are certain factors that stood behind this growth. The UAE market accessibility to international markets, and the growing purchasing power have all contributed to the increase in the imports volume while the distinctive higher quality of UAE product together with the support to the national industry and facilities given to exporters have played a prominent role in increasing exports and opening new markets,” he said.

“Dubai’s sophisticated modern infrastructure, the advanced services at sea and air ports together with the customs facilitations available to all land, sea and air customs ports have contributed considerably to achieve such positive results in Dubai foreign trade,” Butti added.

Last week, Dubai-based ports operator DP World announced an 18 per cent increase in its profits for 2011, from $450 million in 2010 to $532 million last year, underlining the growth that the UAE is witnessing as a country, particularly through Dubai, which is a regional and international trade hub.

*SURE SIGN #4: CORPORATE EARNINGS ARE GROWING*

The UAE’s listed corporates had a remarkable year in 2011, with corporate earnings registering a three-digit growth in the year compared to the previous year, according to a study by Kuwait Financial Centre (Markaz).

According to the report, UAE corporate earnings in 2011 surged a massive 104 per cent over 2010. This is after a massive slump of 51 per cent in earnings that the country’s corporates reported in 2010 over 2009.

Not surprisingly, then, the Dubai Financial Market (DFM) General Index is the best performing Gulf market this year so far, surging by 22.77 per cent in the first quarter of 2012. Reflecting the buoyancy and a general improvement in investor sentiment, share prices of more than 20 listed firms shot up by more than 10 per cent in the three-month period, with 13 firms registering stock price movement of more than 50 per cent, and four of them jumping by more than 100 per cent.

It isn’t just the share prices that are up – reflecting a surge of liquidity on the bourse is the average daily turnover on the DFM, which shot up to Dh317.13 million in Q1 2012, an increase of a massive 331 per cent from Dh73.52m in the last quarter of 2011. That’s a sure sign of rising investor interest and sentiment.

*SURE SIGN #5: JOBS ARE BACK*

A whole host of large Dubai companies are looking to fill a growing number of vacancies in their fold. From the world’s largest airline, the Dubai-based Emirates airline (which is looking to recruit 4,500 staff members this year) to utility firm Dubai Electricity and Water Authority (Dewa), real estate major Emaar Properties, aluminium manufacturer Dubal and many more are all on the lookout.

With a rise in demand for skilled personnel comes the accompanying rise in pay packages of existing employees. Not surprisingly, then, according to recruitment experts at Robert Half UAE, local employers are upping the ante and are increasingly using counteroffers in order to retain their top performers.

“Our research shows that there is buoyant hiring activity through the first half of 2012 and companies are starting to realise that they need to recognise their top performers or risk losing them to other organisations,” says James Sayer, associate director, Robert Half UAE.

The figures suggest that with increased hiring activity from competing organisations, companies are increasingly ardent about keeping high performance professionals on board.

“In order to keep their best employees, companies need to ensure that they are paying competitively with an appropriate salary and bonus structure,” Sayer added. “Top performers who feel they’ve made concessions during the recession will expect to be rewarded for their loyalty,” he said. Time to have a chat with the boss, eh?

*SURE SIGN #6: …AND SO IS ADVERTISING, AND THE TRAFFIC*

Okay this one is completely anecdotal, but can you miss the proverbial writing on the wall? From wafer-thin magazines and on-diet news dailies, print publications are once again gaining weight.

A number of publications that had reduced their page-counts over the last couple of years have managed to return to their original size thanks to a slew of advertising by banks, automobile companies and even property majors. Same is the case with outdoor advertising, with once-unoccupied billboards and signboards brandishing new colours and adverts.

Not just that, a quick glance around Dubai’s numerous restaurants and cafés shows that the buzz is back, with food and beverage outlets brimming once again with customers who are voting in an economic resurgence with their wallets.

Add to that the fact that traffic on Dubai’s main artery – the Sheikh Zayed Road – is once again getting a wee bit tight to negotiate during peak hours, and you know that an economic recovery is well underway.

http://www.emirates247.com/business...-economy-is-booming-again-2012-04-02-1.451604


----------



## bister

*Indigestion?*



bister said:


> So Skinny, you argued that I was daft to suggest 2014 as the completion date for D1 and Versace. Now it appears that the developer is guessing Q4/2013 and combined with the apparent funding shortage described in Arabian Business today, we all know that 2015 is now more likely.
> 
> Skinny, please enjoy your slice of humble pie


It is rather amazing to follow Skinny Girls bi-polar behavior on this thread. It is either rampaging propaganda or deafening silence. However, this time we must assume that Skinny had to go see the Good Doctor to cure acute indigestion following abnormal intake of Humble Pie. 

I wish her well, then again a perverted side of me do look forward to seeing her again riding in on her donkey to save the day and come to the rescue of RERA, ACI, Sunland, Enshaa and the many others that alongside Skinny have done wonders to give Dubai Real Estate a bad name. 

Meanwhile Skinny can read up on another analysis on Her Pimped Out Palazzo:

http://www.dubaichronicle.com/2012/03/29/palazzo-versace-dubai-delayed/


----------



## 234sale

Nobody is interested in this project,, best thing they could do is partner with Damac... For the Russian Money thats flooding Dubai at the moment,,, IMO


----------



## busy boy

*get together*

yes, i would love to meet fellow investors and see how we can obtain clarification and refund from DEC


----------



## noir-dresses

When I see the value of property, and rents increase than I will be totally convinced.


----------



## True Blue

noir-dresses said:


> When I see the value of property, and rents increase than I will be totally convinced.


^^I'm going to put it to the test. Have a tenant in Dorrabay who is leaving Dubai at the end of the month, so will be remarketing my 2 bed apartment. Will be asking min 130k for my prime views unit and I have already seen one advertised at 130k so will let you know how I get on. The problem is that I will need to come to Dubai for 2 or 3 weeks to clean the place up and do the necessary. Just when I was getting used to the cold. :lol:


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> ^^I'm going to put it to the test. Have a tenant in Dorrabay who is leaving Dubai at the end of the month, so will be remarketing my 2 bed apartment. Will be asking min 130k for my prime views unit and I have already seen one advertised at 130k so will let you know how I get on. The problem is that I will need to come to Dubai for 2 or 3 weeks to clean the place up and do the necessary. Just when I was getting used to the cold. :lol:


Give me the second bedroom, and I'll help you clean up the place n plus be your wing man at night while bar hopping. :cheers:


----------



## True Blue

noir-dresses said:


> Give me the second bedroom, and I'll help you clean up the place n plus be your wing man at night while bar hopping. :cheers:


:lol:

Unfurnished, so I will be sleeping on an airbed unless I get a better offer. Had to do it before and it's a pain, litteraly.


----------



## Kevan

Josau is correct, there is a line of villas underneath my balcony, when I look from TP, I am in a two bed, long balcony. There will be no tower in front of TP as the foundations were never put in place to support a tower.

This is the view into the area.


----------



## TerryPop

link to article

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/nakheel-goes-back-the-future-453686.html


----------



## diku

wittyman said:


> Hi again Diku,
> 
> By the way, what you plan to do? Keep the same rent value?
> 
> Regards


Same for me, my tenant is interested to go for more cheques and I have plan to increse it by 10% (Considering 5% for rental up and 5% for more number of cheques)  wish me luck.... Even this will happen after 3 months.....


----------



## naukhez

*Building 2 handover*

All,

Building 2 hanover will be starting in around 1.5 months. Letters wil be despatched in a week's time for payment and clearance of some dues.

Please change the thread title to 'Under Construction'.

Also, we need to exert all the pressure to get facilitated for all the delay. Let us hope for the best.

Best Regards,

Naukhez


----------



## alik100

Hi Guys

has anyone succeeded to get his money back? 
I paid 20% deposit on 2008 like most of you.

has anyone visited the site recently?
if so, please tell me what you have seen there.


*هذا الكلام موجة للمسؤولين في الامارات:*

عيب عليكم يا جماعة تاخذون فلوس الناس و تتركونهم هكذا, اكثر هؤلاء هم ناس عاديين ادخروا طوال سنين كي يستثمروها في بلدكم. عيب و حرام عليكم تسرقون اموالهم, خاصة انكم ناس اصحاب ملايين و لستم فقراء!

سمعتكم صارت زفت و اصبحتم مكروهين بسبب ممارساتكم الجشعة و بسبب هذه الحرمنة المكشوفة.

الا يوجد فيكم رجلآ شريفآ يرجع حقوق الناس!

اما صاحب المشروع وهو الشيخ عيسى فلا ادري ما اقول عليه.


----------



## alik100

كلما استمريتم على هذا الحال كلما انتشرت حكايات النصب و الاحتيال عنكم اكثر. 

اذا كنتم لا تهتمون للحلال و الحرام, فعلى الاقل استحوا من انفسكم!!

على الاقل حافظوا على السمعة, ام ان الحياء قد ولى دون رجعة؟


----------



## alik100

Guys

these people will not give a damn unless jornalists start to expose them on the media.

if you have any friend who works as jornalist then encourage them to write an article on this fraudulent projects and warn people from investing in a country which does not have any law to protect the investors.

name and shame them!


----------



## UAE Investor

Is this true ?

http://www.emirates247.com/property...back-to-early-2008-levels-2012-04-16-1.454135

:dunno:


----------



## VR6

the irony is that dubai seems to have picked up quite well in recent months, business is certainly moving ahead, just not on this project.

As Alik100 has mentioned has anyone actually been able to visit the site or any offices, if the offices even exist?


----------



## noir-dresses

UAE Investor said:


> Is this true ?
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/property...back-to-early-2008-levels-2012-04-16-1.454135
> 
> :dunno:


NO


----------



## UAE Investor

noir-dresses said:


> NO


i thought not !
:lol:


----------



## TerryPop

UAE Investor said:


> i thought not !
> :lol:


Its not across the board - but there are some developments that are there.

Original 6 towers (Emaar in Dubai Marina) seem to be back there...


----------



## TerryPop

*From Andy W*

Nakheel selects consultant for Palm Jumeirah mall

15 April 2012, 12:58 GMT | By Colin Foreman 

Project that was stalled in 2009 has been restarted


Local developer Nakheel, which restructured billions of dollars of debt in 2010, has approved the award of the consultancy contract for a new mall on the Palm Jumeriah to Singapore’s RSP.

RSP was the consultant on the project when it was originally planned in 2008. South Korea’s Samsung C&T was awarded the contract to build the mall, but that contract was cancelled in 2009 following the slump in real estate prices in Dubai and the rest of the UAE.

Located on the man-made island’s trunk, the scheme is expected to be more modest than the original design that was known as the Village Centre. Then it involved the construction of a four-storey retail centre with two, 42-storey residential towers. It would also have had 120,000 square metres of retail space and 150,000 square metres of residential space.

Nakheel is starting to move ahead with several new projects on the Palm Jumeriah. On 11 April it appointed a contractor for its first new development project since Dubai’s property market crashed in late 2008. The local Dubai Civil Engineering (DCE) signed a AED194m ($53m) contract to build the Palma Residences. The developer is also planning to tender a new development known as the Pointe in the middle of this year. The project involves building 136,000 square metres of shops, and restaurants.

Source- MEED.


----------



## TerryPop

It seems to me, that if Nakheel really means it... they will build up assets like the Pointe, the PJ mall, more retail, Palma villas etc.

Thus reducing their debt to assets ratio

It will continue to drive revenue through handovers like Jum park and its leasing of existing retail etc, and extortianate service charges  lol

It will continue cost cutting through revising contracts and skeletal staffing.

And slowly turn around.

I have said it before I believe (in a more art then science kinda way)- the Dubai property market will rise hand in hand with the return and rise of Nakheel... 

I really really hope so!


----------



## MarkWass

TerryPop said:


> I have said it before I believe (in a more art then science kinda way)- the Dubai property market will rise hand in hand with the return and rise of Nakheel...





TerryPop said:


> I really really hope so!


TP, yes you *have said it before*, and I and am sure others have always enjoyed reading your 'passion' even if often your reasoning has more often been based on art rather than science, as you say..

In all seriousness, I suspect the vast majority of posters and readers on this thread would love to see the property market genuinely back on track.

Something, I have also said *before* – 1. long term the market clearly has potential. 2. the *full *potential sadly does not have a hope in hell of actually being achieved until the day that *TPTB* make a proper start at regulating, cleaning up their act, fast-tracking transparency, restricting dubious/fictitious service charges, generally start protecting: past, present and future investors, property purchasers (*the fuel*).

Whether *TPTB* will do that off their own accord, or whether they are eventually forced to make a proper start on this by demands from market forces and being embarrassed by media articles who have actually started to increasingly report the actual facts this year 2012, *it will have to happen one day, surely?? *

_Hopefully sooner rather than later…A safe, secure and hopefully vibrant market is surely in everyone's benefit…_


----------



## TerryPop

I passionately concur Mr Wass 






MarkWass said:


> TP, yes you *have said it before*, and I and am sure others have always enjoyed reading your 'passion' even if often your reasoning has more often been based on art rather than science, as you say..
> 
> In all seriousness, I suspect the vast majority of posters and readers on this thread would love to see the property market genuinely back on track.
> 
> Something, I have also said *before* – 1. long term the market clearly has potential. 2. the *full *potential sadly does not have a hope in hell of actually being achieved until the day that *TPTB* make a proper start at regulating, cleaning up their act, fast-tracking transparency, restricting dubious/fictitious service charges, generally start protecting: past, present and future investors, property purchasers (*the fuel*).
> 
> Whether *TPTB* will do that off their own accord, or whether they are eventually forced to make a proper start on this by demands from market forces and being embarrassed by media articles who have actually started to increasingly report the actual facts this year 2012, *it will have to happen one day, surely?? *
> 
> _Hopefully sooner rather than later…A safe, secure and hopefully vibrant market is surely in everyone's benefit…_


----------



## kitsy

*Calling all Dubai investors in the Uk!!!!*

Several dubai investor groups are trying to get together to do a demonstration outside the UAE embassy in the Uk we are going to get the media and press involved too. Please all those that have been scammed still being scammed contact me via this site or [email protected].

WE MUST TRY AND UNITE TO SHOW THE UAE WE WANT OUR MONEY BACK OR AN HONEST INVESTMENT NOT BUILDING SITES IN DESERTS 5 YEARS ON!!!!!!!!


----------



## rags

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bf1e1338-84a1-11e1-b4f5-00144feab49a.html#axzz1sIqNNxhE

The Gulf: Ripe for consolidation
By Camilla Hall
As house prices began their rapid decline in the United Arab Emirates at the onset of the financial crisis, onlookers concluded consolidation in the government-dominated property market seemed inevitable.
The merging of developers to help manage their debt burden is starting to take place, with the winners of the process set to become national champions and the developers of choice for government projects.

Abu Dhabi, the UAE capital, has set to work reinforcing its property sector, announcing the two biggest state-backed developers are considering a merger.
Analysts say the need for consolidation has been more acute in the UAE than in other parts of the Gulf, particularly given the government’s relatively hands-off approach to intervention in the market. The authorities in nearby Qatar bought the troubled property portfolios of the country’s banks, while Saudi Arabia has promised to build hundreds of thousands of homes as part of its $130bn stimulus plan.
Abu Dhabi’s merger plans came after the emirate’s government completed a wide-ranging spending review and announced a renewed commitment to multibillion-dollar infrastructure projects, including three high-profile museums designed by star architects.
However, contractors say the pace of building remains slow in the emirate.
In both Abu Dhabi and Dubai, government-related companies drove the building spree of the past decade. Outlandish projects such as artificial islands shaped like palm trees grabbed headlines, but also loaded state developers with heavy debts and increased the industry’s vulnerability.
Historically, Dubai, which suffered a more severe property crash than the capital, has experienced mixed fortunes as it has tried to consolidate its multiple government-backed developers and financing ventures.
Mohammed Kamal, partner at Berwin Leighton Paisner, the property law firm, says: “Dubai has more developers [than Abu Dhabi], both public and private. There’s more opportunity there for mergers.”
But with these tie-ups, there is the risk of ruining a strong company with the bad debt of another.
“In Dubai, there was clearly a reluctance to encumber good developers with some schemes and debts and liabilities of some of the entities they might have been merged with,” says Paul Foster, head of asset performance at EC Harris, the real estate consultancy, in Dubai.
“If you look at some of the entities, they’re still there to hold the liabilities away from the phoenix organisations that are coming out of the crisis.”


----------



## hemelboorder

kitsy said:


> Several dubai investor groups are trying to get together to do a demonstration outside the UAE embassy in the Uk we are going to get the media and press involved too. Please all those that have been scammed still being scammed contact me via this site or [email protected].
> 
> WE MUST TRY AND UNITE TO SHOW THE UAE WE WANT OUR MONEY BACK OR AN HONEST INVESTMENT NOT BUILDING SITES IN DESERTS 5 YEARS ON!!!!!!!!


Good idea to take action. But maybe better to look for other ways of publicity... not that many are able (or willing) to travel for that. And, since we are classy people (ahum), maybe we don't feel so comfortable demonstrating on the street!


----------



## drmadar

Today 10:56 PMdrmadar
Hi everyone. I visited JLT today. I can confirm that 34th slab is in progress. I was also told that most likely finishing work is going to start by the end of this month and contractors have been instructed to continue work nonstop till Dubai star building is completed. I believe the work has also picked up the pace. It seems finally things are on tract now.
Edit Report


----------



## unknownpleasures

I've been on holiday in Europe and just returned...any more news on how DSC is going....has that place been finished or is it ready for bull dozing...before I left it was all still a big mess over there.....anyone know anything about it and what's finished, I don't know whether to plan any holidays or not......what about all the stadiums any of those finished, shopping malls etc... thanks for anyone's help in advance...


----------



## Towers3

Can anyone put me in touch with Nigel Knight of the Dubai Property Investors Group please? Pm please... Thanks in advance...


----------



## Ahmed N

drmadar said:


> Today 10:56 PMdrmadar
> Hi everyone. I visited JLT today. I can confirm that 34th slab is in progress. I was also told that most likely finishing work is going to start by the end of this month and contractors have been instructed to continue work nonstop till Dubai star building is completed. I believe the work has also picked up the pace. It seems finally things are on tract now.
> Edit Report



Thanks for the update. I was told that construction is steady - but the monies due from investors has been slow coming, and this will delay the construction. They are quite a few investors who still have not paid their due payments........so its up and down with what the actual truth is!

The main thing I think is that we all post as much information we can on the forum, based on any news we have - and also any investors who are able to visit site - take pictures and post any updates - please.


----------



## TerryPop

Can anyone tell me how to make the perfect crepe Suzette please?


----------



## diku

TP will be happy and support this news: 

Dubai renters seeking to upgrade look at Dh80-100k pa apartments
Searches for properties below Dh50,000 pa on decline, says Propertyfinder.ae
By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Thursday, April 19, 2012 
The worst is over and it is time to move on up. At least as far as Dubai residents go.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...t-dh80-100k-pa-apartments-2012-04-19-1.454590


----------



## TerryPop

Reading that article all looks good except Discovery Gardens- met people who bought there for 1.2 million now worth 450k... we bought at approx 600k and then swapped out of them for a used toothpick and a hair pin (looked new).


----------



## True Blue

^^I remember being offered them way back maybe 2007. Price was roughly 1mil or if I bought a whole floor I could get once in a lifetime offer 800k.:lol:

The area just never interested me. Prices will rise when Nakheel get their act together.


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Arabian Ranches prices up 15%*



> By Shuchita Kapur | Published Monday, April 23, 2012
> 
> Prices of villas in the popular Arabian Ranches community by Emaar have seen an appreciation of 15 per cent in the past one year, according to a leading real estate brokerage company in the UAE.


http://www.emirates247.com/property/arabian-ranches-prices-up-15-2012-04-23-1.455211


----------



## Parisian Girl

_*Dubai realty deals worth Dh12bn*_
http://www.emirates247.com/business/dubai-realty-deals-worth-dh12bn-2012-04-23-1.455218


----------



## naukhez

naukhez said:


> All,
> 
> Building 2 hanover will be starting in around 1.5 months. Letters wil be despatched in a week's time for payment and clearance of some dues.
> 
> Please change the thread title to 'Under Construction'.
> 
> Also, we need to exert all the pressure to get facilitated for all the delay. Let us hope for the best.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Naukhez


Dear All,

This is to let you know that the letters for building 2 handover have been issued and I have received mine. Handover is expected in July 2012. We need to discuss what compensation should we ask in return, since they have asked to clear any payments before the handover.

All suggestions are welcome !

Best Regards,

Naukhez


----------



## MarkWass

*http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dubai_investors/*

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dubai_investors/


----------



## Green Hornet

Think you got it bad in Dubai.
Check this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-500--city-revealed-cheapest-housing-U-S.html


----------



## Souz28

Does anyone know good Property Management Companies to rent out my apartment on short term. I checked with Better Homes - they sound pretty expensive. They charge 3,000 AED per year for marketing + 20% on monthly rent + 500 Dhs per month for cleaning. Does anybody know any other Property Management Companies?


----------



## ConcernedAussie

*Sunland strikes again*

So Sunland didn't finish the Palazzo Versace in Dubai, and left Enshaa holding the bag... and now they are trying to flog the Australian one. 

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/prop...sale-block-as-tourism-struggles-continue.html

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-s-versace-needs-60m-funding-sources-451698.html[/QUOTE]


----------



## diku

Souz28 said:


> Does anyone know good Property Management Companies to rent out my apartment on short term. I checked with Better Homes - they sound pretty expensive. They charge 3,000 AED per year for marketing + 20% on monthly rent + 500 Dhs per month for cleaning. Does anybody know any other Property Management Companies?


If you are in UAE, Its not hard... you can do it yourself. Check PM


----------



## kitsy

hemelboorder said:


> Good idea to take action. But maybe better to look for other ways of publicity... not that many are able (or willing) to travel for that. And, since we are classy people (ahum), maybe we don't feel so comfortable demonstrating on the street!


So you dont feel comfortable fine sin the e petition instead

www.ipetitions.com/petition/dubai_investors/

and pass it on please we only have 50 mor than thousands scammed in dubai!!!! thats uk alone


----------



## SagarDubai

Friends long time no hear from you all??? Everyone's very quite?? So did youll meet up ? What have youll decided? Pls let everyone in this forum know. 
BTW there is good news.... pls go thru this link.. there is some good news coming... 

http://www.emirates247.com/property...und-if-developers-default-2012-04-29-1.456094


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## Parisian Girl

_*Dubai investors to get full refund if developers default on handover*_
http://www.emirates247.com/property...opers-default-on-handover-2012-04-29-1.456094


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## DDDXB

Will this law apply to us? If so, another question, from which funds will be compensation? because they have no money. after the official launch of the law, they will be forced to flee. after the official launch of the law, they will be forced to flee. one of the workers DEC told me that if they pay, by credit notes.


----------



## Berliner01

I highly doubt they will apply the law to existing projects. It would blow up everything. And beside that in the end you will still go to court and it takes ages to get anything if at all.


----------



## JamalMS

Any idea of how the two bedroom is renting for?


----------



## MarkWass

So what do we reckon folks?

The recent 'news' (April 2012) that has been setting all the forums ablaze, getting everyone very, very excited:

http://www.emirates247.com/property...opers-default-on-handover-2012-04-29-1.456094

Is it really THAT different from the OLD 'news' (January 2010):

http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/new-dubai-land-law-promises-property-refunds

????


----------



## agod

Well yes, we have been here before, there have been many broken promises along the way, we all remember the Property Residency Visa, which certainly turned my Life upside down.
The difference between RERA and any Government Dept telling your crooked Developer to actually write that Cheque out, and say sorry Mr. Investor, is as far away as the Moon and back, most will wriggle and scream and perhaps even go Bankrupt, in any event to avoid you or disappear to some remote corner of the Globe, (Like our Mr. Trident residing in Switzerland) that they call home, and build themselves a Mansion with our Cash.

If you could step into the Tardis, and shoot forward 10 Years, you might see a Dubai that actually had some kind of working Laws with precedence’s, that could be followed and upheld, and give the Investors some Rights, that will only happen if and when they introduce Class Actions, that way we can go Legal, at very little cost against these Rogues, as opposed to keeping the Court Costs so high, (More Government Fees) and it prohibits us from using them.

The Developer has always been King, I do believe the Government wants nothing more, than to get all these Buildings up and running, and flood the Market, all plugged in to DEWA, and DU, and Housing Fees, and copping 1% every time you sneeze.

It will never be the Investors who will win in this Town, you are just the Mugs that bought into it, (I include myself in that) the saving grace for us all, will be those very Developers, they are certainly not Mugs, I suspect, they have sat around there Board Table’s ,and Consulted with their Consultants, and Analysts, spoke to their Bankers, and invited them along for a quick trip around Dubai, it will show them that the Green Shoots of recovery have already taken hold, and as the Money gets released, and they could and should, at least now fund their own Building Costs, as opposed to using ours, as Investor confidence for Off Plan is pretty bleak they will need to, as the Projects start to get underway again, and they actually deliver, with Proper Contracts, and good Quality Builds, and then perhaps, some of these Laws that are in place, should work, and you need to Quadruple at least RERA’s workforce, and give them some Bloody teeth, I mean real Teeth, not the Dentures that they have been wearing.

Al.


----------



## glover

^^^^^ well said. i would also add that the government could never be an impartial party between developers and investors!! always remember that the biggest developers are either fully owned (Nakheel, Dubai Properties, etc) or partially owned by the government (Emaar, etc.). they will try to put an image of being impartial and intent on protecting investors, but in reality, the practice will be the opposite. at least that's how its been so far!!!


----------



## riteshs

JamalMS said:


> Any idea of how the two bedroom is renting for?


Jamal its just not possible to rent unless the ugly sandpit is there... its an eyesore and looks like an incomplete construction site. hno:


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## SagarDubai

If investors win the case, the court will liquidate DEC assets and refund monies to all. This is time consuming. I suggest, go and see the DEC guys and try to work out something (swap) rather than losing everything. JVC is picking up.. though slowly.. but it will get there eventually. Talk to the top guys in DEC, ask for a swap in Lawns 4, put pressure on them....it will work out....all the best!


----------



## MarkWass

*New proposed Dubai Investor Protection Law may undermine rights of Owners' Associations - Business Intelligence Middle East - bi-me.com - News, analysis, reports*

http://www.bi-me.com/main.php?id=57641&t=1&c=33&cg=4&mset=

I suppose from existing investors point of view, the following comment by this lawyer chap is a little worrying:

'these provisions are not stated to be retroactive and therefore may be of little benefit to existing investors'


----------



## jsmith6

riteshs said:


> Jamal its just not possible to rent unless the ugly sandpit is there... its an eyesore and looks like an incomplete construction site. hno:


I'm advertising mine. I'll give a coupe of free months due to the construction.


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## riteshs

jsmith6 said:


> I'm advertising mine. I'll give a coupe of free months due to the construction.


hi there... could you share what the annual service charges are and what is the ac chiller charges like?

thanks


----------



## jsmith6

riteshs said:


> hi there... could you share what the annual service charges are and what is the ac chiller charges like?
> 
> thanks


Don't know yet.


----------



## Wac

I called Dheeraj and East Coast today. They have no news regarding the cancellation of Lawns 2. The girl asked me to forward her email or any other proof that is received from RERA saying that Lawns 2 has been cancelled so that she can talk to the higher management. Does any of you have such proof, please share?


----------



## SagarDubai

Friends, dont send emails and make calls. It will not work. Just go to their office and talk to them face to face. See what they have to say. If they are not convincing then talk to the CEO or higher mgmt. Out of sight is out of mind. You need to be pushy if you want to get things done. Dont give up. If you want a swap you have to get out of your confort zone and make it work. It will work! Just keep going to their office! The market is picking up.. for all you know you could be lucky. Keep trying! Failure to plan is planning to fail. 

BTW you guys were planning to meet up right? What happend? Gave up???


----------



## metlofts123

*Investor ‘protection’: here we go again…*












May 2, 2012
*A proposed investor protection law does little to guarantee protection for real estate investors here in the UAE. Kipp isn’t terribly surprised…*

Last month, Kipp wrote about a new proposed law intended to ‘protect’ property investors in Dubai. Set to be enforced in the middle of 2012, the new law would ban developers from selling property to investors unless 20 percent of the property is completed. At the time, we said we thought the act didn’t exactly protect investors-after all merely ensuring the completion of 20 percent of the project before sales doesn’t quite qualify as protection from in-completion or force de majure. Even if 20 percent is completed, where is the guarantee that the remaining 80 percent will be?
Double edged sword, Kipp said it then and we will say it again one month later: all of the measures put into place to ‘protect’ investors are something of a double edged sword. RERA really need to reconsider the message they are sending potential real estate investors when they draft such laws.
Consider article 11 of the draft Investor Protection Law which “suggests developers will retain control of common areas where such rights are contained in the original sales and purchase agreement” as Michael Lunjevich, a property lawyer at Hadef & Partners told The National. Essentially, the law says the developer will maintain the right to manage the ‘common areas’ of a particular development.
Sounds like trouble and Kipp has only two words: “Shoreline Apartments.”
Oh yes, remember that messy debacle? Towards the end of 2011, Nakheel closed off access to the club house and pool claiming unpaid service charges. Nakheel said it had plans to open up membership to the community’s pool and fitness center, to the public. And quite naturally, the residents of the Shoreline Apartments were incensed. Things got so out of hand, residents called the police to get the security guards to open the shut door-which they said was a safety hazard.
When done well, management of the ‘common areas’ by the developer, isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Yet, Kipp can easily foresee how things could sour if there isn’t a further clarification of the responsibilities of a developer who maintains the rights of the common areas. Outlining a developer’s extent of control and the type of limitations in their rights, is pivotal to avoiding another ‘Shoreline Apartments.’
Till then, RERA should consider altering the law to make allowance for those who are currently in possession of apartments that aren’t being adequately maintained by their developers. Taking such steps legally, will help restore the confidence of investors, world wide-something the Dubai real estate sector can really do with at the moment.


http://www.kippreport.com/2012/05/investor-%E2%80%98protection%E2%80%99-here-we-go-again%E2%80%A6/


----------



## riteshs

Seems like delaying the process of handover by few of the owners seems to be working in getting things sorted. Just got this letter from Nakheel though no mention of pool or gym yet.

Dear Owner,

Further to the notice of completion sent, we hope that you have completed the formalities for the handover of your property in Jumeirah Heights. We once again take this opportunity to welcome you to your new home in the Jumeirah Heights clusters.


We are glad to inform you that Nakheel has now awarded the contract for the landscaping works in Jumeirah Heights. This will include the hard and soft landscaping works for the pool and play areas. The works are to commence very shortly and we do apologize for this delay. We anticipate completion of the same by end of this year. We anticipate completion of the same by end of this year.
Nakheel has prioritized the completion of the Jumeirah Heights project as part of the restructuring plan. The handover notices for the apartments were hence issued as soon as the completion certificates were obtained with the intention of allowing the customers to complete the formalities for handover and to start settling into their new homes. We do apologize for the delay in completing the landscaping works prior to the handover. We would like to assure you that we are committed to complete the infrastructure within and around the project to ensure that our customers enjoy the experience of moving into their new homes.

2012 is a very important year for Nakheel as a company with the completion and handovers of several projects scheduled in phases over the months to come. We once again thank all our customers for their cooperation and understanding till date without which we would not have been able to successfully handover your property in Jumeirah Heights.


Yours sincerely,

For and on behalf of
Jumeirah Heights LLC
Nakheel Customer Services


----------



## MMDXB

no we did not gave up to meet but people are lacking to respond to it and settle a date for it.....so once again....when and where.....SagarDubai u should be there as well....


----------



## falqy

*#NEWS : Dubai Back on Real Estate Investors Wish-List*

Just a few years after a price crash among properties in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), investors are starting to return to the country, according to Alternative Asset Analysis (AAA).
The National Bank of Abu Dhabi is hoping to attract wealthy investors who may be looking for an alternative investment asset class to invest in. It wants to buy up UAE real estate with the funds raised through the commercial property fund. The fund is expected to effectively establish whether there is an appetite for these kinds of investments in the Middle East.
Although Dubai property values made a very high profile nose-dive a few years ago, investors are once again heading back to the UAE, with the hope of investing in a bargain and seeing values rise once more. The region is increasingly seen as a secure region surrounded in unrest and many Middle Eastern investors are thinking of moving their investments to Dubai as a result.
Real estate in general is growing in popularity among alternative investors, claims AAA, which advocates alternative investments of all kinds. AAA’s analysis partner, Anthony Johnson, said, “The equity markets are highly volatile at the moment, and investors risk losing money overnight if they fall suddenly.”


----------



## TerryPop

*signs of life*

As this is the investment bit of the forum...

Have seen some significant jumps in Marina, Palm, JLT & Disco property that do (amazingly) align with some of the news coming out.

We have received an offer of 35% higher then 12 months ago on one unit.


First the completed market will recover, and it will naturally drag the off-plan, half built into the game again I suspect.


----------



## Richard Head

TerryPop said:


> As this is the investment bit of the forum...
> 
> Have seen some significant jumps in Marina, Palm, JLT & Disco property that do (amazingly) align with some of the news coming out.
> 
> We have received an offer of 35% higher then 12 months ago on one unit.
> 
> 
> First the completed market will recover, and it will naturally drag the off-plan, half built into the game again I suspect.


Yeah, this.

Arabian Ranches prices I would say are up 30% or possibly a bit more since the market hit bottom.


----------



## True Blue

^^A little confidence is all that is needed to build momentum in the market. I have seen some stalled projects in the marina restarting construction. Now I hope they realise that build quality will help them sell as that is what was lacking in the first batch.


----------



## OmarPERU

Prices did come up, but not everywhere. At the beginning many locations started to "rally" for couple of months, but now they seem more stable. There were some artificial "peaks" but they disappeared.


----------



## OmarPERU

Many projects restart or speed up construction in Business Bay as well. Infrastructure improvements are on-going (slowly but steady) like marina-sideTram, business bay "parallel roads", landscaping in SZR (Oasis mall area), first interchange landscaping has been going on the last few weeks, pedestrian bridge to Dubai Mall, etc.


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Draft law raises doubts over common area ownership*



> by CW Staff on May 2, 2012
> 
> Concerns have been raised over a draft law designed to protect Dubai homeowners which suggests common area control will fall into the hands of the developer.


http://www.constructionweekonline.c...law-raises-doubts-over-common-area-ownership/


----------



## G.invester

*Dubai investors to get full refund if developers default on handover*

Dubai investors to get full refund if developers default on handover
Proposed Investor Protection Law also makes it mandatory for developer to provide all promised common facilities
By Parag Deulgaonkar
Published Sunday, April 29, 2012
Property investors in Dubai will be eligible for cancellation of their contracts and may seek “full” refunds if the real estate developer fails to provide the promised unit or services within a specific timeframe, according to a proposed new Investor Protection Law.

From a delay in handing over of units to a failure to deliver promised facilities as per the sales contract, the proposed law gives property investors in Dubai the right to seek cancellation of their contracts and get “full” refunds.
Under the proposed law, an investor will get the right to cancel the contract and obtain a full refund if the developer has taken more than eight months (beyond the promised handover date) to hand over the unit(s).
Another provision proposes to make it mandatory for the developer to provide all the common facilities promised in the contract at the time of handover.
Therefore, swimming pools, gyms or any other promised facility in the building will have to be ready before officially handing over the keys to the owners.
Failure to do so on the part of the developer will allow the investor to cancel his or her contract and claim refund on investment.
At present, some developers have failed to provide the facilities mentioned in their sales purchase agreements (SPAs) or marketing collateral.
Until now, owners did not have much recourse and could only hope that the facilities would get completed at some point in time.
On the other hand, developers will face fines if the units they promise are not delivered on time, or to agreed specifications.
A proposed provision of the draft law says that if a unit turns out to be 30 per cent smaller than the actual net area in the contract, the investor will have the right to cancel the contract and obtain a full refund.
In case of off-plan sales, the draft proposes to make it mandatory for a developer to get all approvals from the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) and to register all saleable units with the Dubai Land Department’s Oqood system — the online registration system.
The developer is also obliged to register all contracts with Rera and to provide all information regarding the project’s handover, escrow account, etc.
The draft law mentions that a reservation form will be deemed “void” if the developer has failed to provide the investor with an agreement within 15 days of the signing of the reservation form.
Arabic newspaper Al Bayan quoted Sultan Bin Mejren Director General of Dubai Land Department, earlier this month, saying that the department had completed the finalisation of the draft law on the protection of the real estate investor and it is expected to be implemented by June-end.
Ludmila Yamalova, Managing Partner of HPL Yamalova & Plewka JLT, told Emirates 24|7: “The various provisions mentioned in the draft are helpful for the investors especially since it gives them the right to cancel than just seek compensation.
“A lot more, however, can be done to tighten the provisions relating to off plan market.”
Following the global economic slowdown of 2008, there are still hundreds of property projects on hold in Dubai (as of March 31, 2012), but many are likely to see the light of day.
Dubai’s Real Estate Regulatory Agency has been quoted in the planned sovereign bond prospectus as saying that 165 projects have been completed since the beginning of 2009; 291 projects are on hold; 291 projects are likely to be completed in due course, while 29 projects have not yet commenced.
According to the prospectus, Dubai Land Department says that 291 projects are on hold, but that each of them is likely to qualify for either the Tayseer or the Tanmia initiatives that will provide financial and other assistance to such projects and their investors.

Nevertheless, legal experts opine that a remedy to whether or not an investor can claim refund may already exist in the contract that she or he signs with the developer.
In certain contracts, the developers have clearly mentioned the handover date to commence only after completion of the infrastructure work by the master developer. Here, developers can use the “force majeure” clause to justify delays, experts say.


----------



## Mistermark

It's a nice idea, but without a functioning court system, the proposed law is valueless.


----------



## MANUTD

Mistermark said:


> It's a nice idea, but without a functioning court system, the proposed law is valueless.


Courts and Arbitration do work but the onus is just on the Investor totally and Developers put obstacles in the way ALWAYS


----------



## True Blue

The wording is all important in legal contracts and simple changes can result in miss interpretation.

The wording should strictly be; "Dubai investors ENTITLED to full refund if developers default on handover"

Whether investors will receive a full refund will depend entirely on the solvency of the company. 

It is all too late to save the off plan market, the reputation of Dubai as a safe haven for property development investment has all but evapourated. People even believed that companies like Nakheel were triple A rated and look where they are now.


----------



## Parisian Girl

_*JBR rents rise more than 20%*_
http://www.emirates247.com/property/rentals/jbr-rents-rise-more-than-20-2012-05-06-1.457245


----------



## camelrider

both my email & my phone are being CONTINUOUSLY bombarded by agents with clients who are READY to PURCHASE or RENT my Villa in JVT!!........

Time flies..........


----------



## SagarDubai

I will not be able to join you all. since I got what I wanted going alone. Getting everyone and then going and meeting...I guess this is going to be really tough or probably impossible since some people are in Dubai and some abroad. secondly how many people are really inclined to get back their money / flat ?? Where there is a will there is a way.... Dont wait for others...


----------



## asif1982

http://www.emirates247.com/property...opers-default-on-handover-2012-04-29-1.456094

see above link


----------



## asif1982

we can sit togther asap.... call me on 0501854754


----------



## akhiabani

*Sweet Dreams*

Our inaction as investors not united is the reason the Chapal is still holding on to our money..


----------



## Berliner01

The link is for a proposed new law. Therefore it does not apply to your case.


----------



## JamalMS

riteshs said:


> Seems like delaying the process of handover by few of the owners seems to be working in getting things sorted. Just got this letter from Nakheel though no mention of pool or gym yet.
> 
> Dear Owner,
> 
> Further to the notice of completion sent, we hope that you have completed the formalities for the handover of your property in Jumeirah Heights. We once again take this opportunity to welcome you to your new home in the Jumeirah Heights clusters.
> 
> 
> We are glad to inform you that Nakheel has now awarded the contract for the landscaping works in Jumeirah Heights. This will include the hard and soft landscaping works for the pool and play areas. The works are to commence very shortly and we do apologize for this delay. We anticipate completion of the same by end of this year. We anticipate completion of the same by end of this year.
> Nakheel has prioritized the completion of the Jumeirah Heights project as part of the restructuring plan. The handover notices for the apartments were hence issued as soon as the completion certificates were obtained with the intention of allowing the customers to complete the formalities for handover and to start settling into their new homes. We do apologize for the delay in completing the landscaping works prior to the handover. We would like to assure you that we are committed to complete the infrastructure within and around the project to ensure that our customers enjoy the experience of moving into their new homes.
> 
> 2012 is a very important year for Nakheel as a company with the completion and handovers of several projects scheduled in phases over the months to come. We once again thank all our customers for their cooperation and understanding till date without which we would not have been able to successfully handover your property in Jumeirah Heights.
> 
> 
> Yours sincerely,
> 
> For and on behalf of
> Jumeirah Heights LLC
> Nakheel Customer Services


We need to work together on pushing Nakheel to deliver. Please send me a copy for my records. My email is [email protected]. Thanks


----------



## JamalMS

All - Please lets working together on making Nakheel deliver for our mutual benefit. I own a two bedroom loft in Cluster west building A. lets create a working group where information is shared and action is agreed. My email is [email protected]


----------



## W40arx

Hi guys, I haven't heard anything recently? Are all investors paid up to date?


----------



## Parisian Girl

_*Dubai rent recovery: JLT getting costlier*_
http://www.emirates247.com/property...very-jlt-getting-costlier-2012-05-09-1.457840


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Rent dispute protection offered by new Dubai office*



> Ramola Talwar Badam | May 9, 2012
> 
> DUBAI // Residents and landlords will find it easier to protect themselves in case of disputes over property leases by registering their tenancy agreements at a new government office.


http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/rent-dispute-protection-offered-by-new-dubai-office


----------



## sgn7200

Has anyone got any information with regard to Lawns 5. I understand the same sub-contractor who is engaged in construction work at Lawns 4 has been engaged to commence construction work at Lawns 5 and he has already mobilized and commenced work at site. Can someone please visit the the Lawns 5 site and let us know whether it is true.


----------



## Garden city

*Question regarding investment from overseas*

Hello there Dubai forumers. I am currently looking at investing in an apartment either in JLT or Discovery Gardens to lease it out. I have couple of questions and any help would be appreciated.


Any nice dealers for these communities? I know bhomes et. al charge a lot so any local property dealer with good track record?
Since i do not stay in Dubai if there are any issues with the appartment and the resident complains about it then what is the best way to handle such issues?
what additional expenses can i expect when completing the purchase of property?
how long does the paperwork take to complete property transfer?

Thank you


----------



## TerryPop

Not PR, not hearsay- from the trenches...


had a tenant leave, and a new one in - with a *20% increase* in rent, in *Dubai marina*.

had a tenant leave, and a new one in -with a *28.5% increase* in *discovery gardens*.

This month


----------



## diku

Agree with TP 

One of my tenant already raised 10% by himself (I know some members will not digest it) without hesitation. Fingures crossed for another appt. which is due in next august (Both in Marina)


----------



## SagarDubai

Friends ... Work at Lawns 5 has commenced. 
http://www.dheerajeastcoast.com/content/Construction-Update-Images.aspx?pID=20&CUID=497
BTW: Lawns 2 is cancelled. DEC may not tell you this openly. 
Pls go and negotiate your swaps with DEC. Its now or never!! All the best.


----------



## hemelboorder

*Shameless extortion by 32 Group*

Read here how investors are being squeezed to the max by unscrupulous developers and the government. I have this story first hand and all the documents are with me.

An investor buys an apartment off plan from 32 Group in 2008. That was near the peak of the market. 32Group is owned by sheik Mo himself, but probably other developers are just as bad. The owner decided to sell it last month at approx. AED 400000, accepting a loss of more than 50%. 

The total charges for doing the transaction turned out to be a shocking AED 29840! 
They consist of issuance of title deed to current owner (2% charged over original price, which was more than 800000), a 'No Objection Certificate' costing 5000, transfer fee for new owner, and several other 'admin fees'. 

Believe it or not, but he actually had to 'sell' the place to himself first since there was not yet a title deed but just certificate of ownership.

In total this amounts to 7.5 % of the property value lost in the sales process alone. 

How would sheik Mo ever restore confidence in the market if he keeps on pulling these tricks?


----------



## unknownpleasures

hemelboorder said:


> Read here how investors are being squeezed to the max by unscrupulous developers and the government. I have this story first hand and all the documents are with me.
> 
> An investor buys an apartment off plan from 32 Group in 2008. That was near the peak of the market. 32Group is owned by sheik Mo himself, but probably other developers are just as bad. The owner decided to sell it last month at approx. AED 400000, accepting a loss of more than 50%.
> 
> The total charges for doing the transaction turned out to be a shocking AED 29840!
> They consist of issuance of title deed to current owner (2% charged over original price, which was more than 800000), a 'No Objection Certificate' costing 5000, transfer fee for new owner, and several other 'admin fees'.
> 
> Believe it or not, but he actually had to 'sell' the place to himself first since there was not yet a title deed but just certificate of ownership.
> 
> In total this amounts to 7.5 % of the property value lost in the sales process alone.
> 
> How would sheik Mo ever restore confidence in the market if he keeps on pulling these tricks?


^^^^^^hno:hno: terrible stuff...any link to where it says mo owns this...i've never heard of the 32 Group where are they based etc.. which project is this also you speak about?


----------



## Imre

unknownpleasures said:


> i've never heard of the 32 Group where are they based etc..


This was their best project 

*Snowdome: the ultimate winter experience*

http://www.32group.com/companynews/snowdometheultimatewinterexperience

and 

http://www.32group.com/divisions/realestate/projects/snowdome

Unfortunately it has been cancelled :lol:


----------



## unknownpleasures

Imre said:


> This was their best project
> 
> *Snowdome: the ultimate winter experience*
> 
> http://www.32group.com/companynews/snowdometheultimatewinterexperience
> 
> and
> 
> http://www.32group.com/divisions/realestate/projects/snowdome
> 
> Unfortunately it has been cancelled :lol:


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: well wonders will never cease "snowdome" in dubai, no wonder it was cancelled...hey thanks Imre, but no connection to Sheik I take it?


----------



## Imre

unknownpleasures said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: well wonders will never cease "snowdome" in dubai, no wonder it was cancelled...hey thanks Imre, but no connection to Sheik I take it?


I dont know who is the owner of the company , never had any deals with them ,I know just the Snowdome, Concorde Tower (JLT) and 32G Pharmacy , thats all..


----------



## hemelboorder

32Group is a large holding. See: http://www.32group.com .
Their office is in Emirates Towers. And yes, the apartment I was referring to is in Concorde Tower.


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Most expensive tower close to launch of first residents group*



> Sean Cronin | May 14, 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The owners association of Le Reve in Dubai Marina has registered its final papers with Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Agency in a major milestone for the rights of property owners. (Jeffrey E Biteng / The National)
> 
> A tower that is home to Dubai's most expensive apartments is set to become the first building in the emirate to be run by homeowners.


http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...ower-close-to-launch-of-first-residents-group


----------



## mowy2611

I've paid... Last update I have is from yesterday they're almost done with floor 34. This is from the PM onsite. Expected completion if no further delays in cash flow...etc will be December 2013. Anyone else has any news? 

Has anyone not paid yet?


----------



## True Blue

Parisian Girl said:


> http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...ower-close-to-launch-of-first-residents-group


There does appear to be a very real sense of resistance to pass control to Owners associations. Possibly because authorities can see the real potential for flood gates opening for claims of poor design and workmanship. Most is this bad design and workmanship being carried out by Local companies!

"Let's keep it swept under the carpet a little longer" mentality.


----------



## Garden city

Reposting my question 



Garden city said:


> Hello there Dubai forumers. I am currently looking at investing in an apartment either in JLT or Discovery Gardens to lease it out. I have couple of questions and any help would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> Any nice dealers for these communities? I know bhomes et. al charge a lot so any local property dealer with good track record?
> Since i do not stay in Dubai if there are any issues with the appartment and the resident complains about it then what is the best way to handle such issues?
> what additional expenses can i expect when completing the purchase of property?
> how long does the paperwork take to complete property transfer?
> 
> Thank you


----------



## wittyman

*Need help for market price range..*

Hi,

I have a 1 BR apartment in Dreams Tower (aka Carlton Tower) in Dubai Marina. The current tenant is interested in buying it and wants to know what my asking price is. 

I may consider selling but I need to know what market value the unit may have. Looking at sales ads at Dubizzle etc. are not of much help as they can be unrealistic.

The fully furnished unit of about 775 sq ft is located in the mid portion of a low 10s floor and faces the Marina with partial Marina view.

I'd greatly appreciate if anybody provides some insight as to the current market value for this unit.

Thanks and best regards to all..


----------



## diku

Garden city said:


> Hello there Dubai forumers. I am currently looking at investing in an apartment either in JLT or Discovery Gardens to lease it out. I have couple of questions and any help would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> Any nice dealers for these communities? I know bhomes et. al charge a lot so any local property dealer with good track record?
> Since i do not stay in Dubai if there are any issues with the appartment and the resident complains about it then what is the best way to handle such issues?
> what additional expenses can i expect when completing the purchase of property?
> how long does the paperwork take to complete property transfer?
> 
> Thank you


Depending on your budget... Priority is...
1. Dubai marina
2. JLT
3. Discovery Garden

You can find many local agents thru dubizzle... Imre is also known source in SSC 

You can give it to management company to maintain your apprt. including rentals. So all issues/disputes will be handled by them (Usually they charge 8-10% of rental contract... Rough estimate)

Additional expenses: 2% to agent, 2% for registration and keep 1% for Misc. Charges For cash buyer (It will differ if you are finance buyer).

Usually it takes 1-2 weeks for transfer... Also it depends on appt. you are buying. (Example.... if seller is financed... than he has to settle first and usually it take 4-6 weeks)

Hope this will help you for basic info.


----------



## bister

Hi all

Can anyone give me accurate directions to the ACI Office. My driver needs to drop off a letter and he keeps missing it.....


----------



## noir-dresses

Wow this thread has surpased 2 million views.


----------



## diku

wittyman said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a 1 BR apartment in Dreams Tower (aka Carlton Tower) in Dubai Marina. The current tenant is interested in buying it and wants to know what my asking price is.
> 
> I may consider selling but I need to know what market value the unit may have. Looking at sales ads at Dubizzle etc. are not of much help as they can be unrealistic.
> 
> The fully furnished unit of about 775 sq ft is located in the mid portion of a low 10s floor and faces the Marina with partial Marina view.
> 
> I'd greatly appreciate if anybody provides some insight as to the current market value for this unit.
> 
> Thanks and best regards to all..


Tower is in very strategic location but somehow it has not gained much popularity....

Realistically 800Dh/sqft will be OK.... BUT again its a matter of demand and supply... (Who is in need?  ) and you can quote accordingly.

Dubizzle price is on an average 5-10% higher than real sale... IMO only


----------



## unfortunato

Hi all,

Has anyone investigated or taken legal options yet?


----------



## akhiabani

*What is the purpose of ARRA?*

If this real estate regulator is lacking the regulating power and means then why was it set up?
The developers have broken all the rules and promises and still refusing to return our money while this useless agency have simply turned a blind eye on the whole situation of the EC and doesn't have a common decency to reply to our questions and concerns.Down with the people who can change things overnight if they wanted to but they don't.


----------



## Parisian Girl

_*Banks step in to aid clients offload units as Dubai property deals rise*_
http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...dubai-property-deals-rise-2012-05-15-1.458769


----------



## Parisian Girl

_*Dubai villa rents post first rise since 2008-09*_
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-villa-rents-post-first-rise-since-2008-09-457946.html


----------



## Jesus.C

*Project stopped*



unfortunato said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Has anyone investigated or taken legal options yet?


There is no use for a legal case since 90% of the building is Done. I am attaching land department progress reports the word 'Stopped' is used a lot. Dunno if there's an update from them? Any suggestions? Don't waste ur money on legal cases lets try to talk them if we can get a compensation

http://rpdubai.ae/English/eServices/ShowProjectIndicatorReportEN.aspx?ID=2047


----------



## italiano_pellicano

guys I'm looking to open a gelato bar, which what is the most frequented zone or area , and if anyone knows of any opportunities please send me a private message

I'm thinking the same transfer to dubai and would be interested in a home


thanks and good day

excuse my bad english


----------



## miser developer

We are the 2005/07 Investors of Dubai Sports City. 

Many of us wanted a holiday home in Dubai for our families and before that we were part of the successful Tourism Industry that frequents Dubai every year. Some of us were planning to make Dubai our new home. We are not gamblers or speculators that invested beyond our means. 

Our money was supposed to be protected by the escrow accounts. We were promised stadia and infrastructure. It is now 2012 with no end in sight... 

The Developers have defaulted on mass scale since according to our contracts our projects were supposed to be completed between 2008 and 2010. Until today we have not received any request for an extension of our contracts and no explanation about why the projects have been stalled. Many of us were asked for more money and some of us were told that the construction was in progress when it was not. Many projects have stalled for years, but those Developers are still allowed to hold our money until "the market improves". Despite numerous contacts with RERA our rights have not been upheld. Furthermore RERA is delaying the cancellation of non-vital projects. We feel that this inaction has an additional negative impact on the Dubai economy and more precisely on its real estate market.

It is our belief that if RERA applied the law equally to Developers and Investors, we would be allowed to choose to receive refund of our money as per our contracts and could then reinvest the money in viable projects. If the Developers have misused the money they should be penalised according to the law. 

We, the undersigned hope for the best future of Dubai. As Investors in Dubai we ask:
1. The Government to stop the Developers demands for additional payments beyond those already contracted;
2. To provide every Investor with escrow/trust fund/invested money information in every project in DSC so Investors can make informed decisions,
3. Create new escrow accounts for new payments, 
4. Require the Developers to use the money already invested into the projects to complete them; 
5.Mediate disputes between investors and Developers and come up with practical solutions -don't send everybody to courts.


----------



## TerryPop

Signs up in the 6 Marina Residence towers on palm Jumeirah warning people it is illegal to short let and action will be taken.


----------



## Spurs

Also signs up in discovery gardens buildings about short term rental.


----------



## NeilP

Latest Dubailand video. Still has Universal and Legoland parks. Come on get them built !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzBuJRRLCMQ


----------



## riteshs

Hello there

Any updates??? Last week when I visited JH the elevators werent functioning properly. Also any info regarding the chiller connection formalities and capacity charges would be helpful.

Regards.


----------



## building1

I saw a 3 bed duplex in west complex today. I liked it a lot. Very nice, modern, light, spacious apartments with nice lake or island views. They told me it will take another 4 weeks before I can move in. There is nobody living there yet.
The only flipside is the missing landscaping, play areas, pool and gym. And it will take at least 12 months untill it is completed. They have not even started working on it...The closest shopping is in JLT. 
Conclusion: I think this development has a lot of upside. It will be a great living environment when everything is ready. The location is very good.


----------



## UAE_AD

Should we give up hope?


----------



## Imre

UAE_AD said:


> Should we give up hope?


Same as before .. I am sure they will finish this one but the question is when.


----------



## Imre

New launch from Emaar on 26th May:











Panorama at The Views

Located in The Views, the established master-planned community of Emaar near The Greens, Panorama overlooks the fairways of Emirates Golf Course, and features 224 apartments that open doors to a vibrant lifestyle for residents. The mid-rise development is uniquely designed guaranteeing that most apartments have uninterrupted views of the green course and the Dubai Marina skyline.

With spectacular views of Emirates Golf Course, Panorama at The Views features large one, two and three-bedroom apartments and three and four-bedroom duplex units. Generous balconies and rooftop terraces add to the comfortable and relaxing lifestyle that awaits residents. Other features include floor-to-ceiling picture windows in the living rooms and bedrooms, state-of-the-art kitchens and elegantly accented bathrooms.

http://www.emaar.com/index.aspx?page=emaaruae-theviews-panorama


----------



## Sheltie

hemelboorder said:


> 32Group is a large holding. See: http://www.32group.com .
> Their office is in Emirates Towers. And yes, the apartment I was referring to is in Concorde Tower.


I know all about them. I bought from them and have lost all the money I invested. Crooked through and through. I only ever found one other investor who has been to arbitration and court with them. Won the case and is still fighting to get money back. 
I went to Emirates Towers office last year and lo and behold there was a plush office, about 20 workers sitting at desks and the marvellous model of the Snowdome as the centre piece. I felt like throwing my shoe through it but didn't fancy getting arrested.


----------



## asif1982

I know there is a chance, before handover our flats, pl we have to sit togather. asap


----------



## bister

*ACI Directions*



bister said:


> Hi all
> 
> Can anyone give me accurate directions to the ACI Office. My driver needs to drop off a letter and he keeps missing it.....


Guys,

Can you PLEASE help with directions to ACI's TECOM office


----------



## xingu

Imre said:


> New launch from Emaar on 26th May:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Panorama at The Views
> 
> Located in The Views, the established master-planned community of Emaar near The Greens, Panorama overlooks the fairways of Emirates Golf Course, and features 224 apartments that open doors to a vibrant lifestyle for residents. The mid-rise development is uniquely designed guaranteeing that most apartments have uninterrupted views of the green course and the Dubai Marina skyline.
> 
> With spectacular views of Emirates Golf Course, Panorama at The Views features large one, two and three-bedroom apartments and three and four-bedroom duplex units. Generous balconies and rooftop terraces add to the comfortable and relaxing lifestyle that awaits residents. Other features include floor-to-ceiling picture windows in the living rooms and bedrooms, state-of-the-art kitchens and elegantly accented bathrooms.
> 
> http://www.emaar.com/index.aspx?page=emaaruae-theviews-panorama


Where is the plot for this Imre, any idea?

I am in Tanaro, just wondering if it will affect us, cannot see that it would


----------



## Imre

xingu said:


> Where is the plot for this Imre, any idea?
> 
> I am in Tanaro, just wondering if it will affect us, cannot see that it would


Its front of Mosela and Tanaro, the sewage plant will be removed later.
If you send me your email id I can send you the details and brochure.


----------



## Wac

anyone having problem in transfering the contract form PMI to AlMasah. As I heard they are creating problems for owners. Thanks.


----------



## Wac

mikel 1982: did you get your new contract or not yet.


----------



## auzdafluff

mikel1982 said:


> Small progress in this tower, they are fighting with 12 floor for 2 months ..


Probably because they keep having to fight off the residents of Mag 214 and Al Waleed Paradise for blocking off half the available overflow parking. :lol:


----------



## TerryPop

*JAOC*

Has anybody either:

A) bought property in the name of a Jebel Ali Offshore Company

or 

B) transferred property they already own in Dubai into a Jebel Ali Offshore Company


Could do with any guidance on the process and costings if any one can spare the time.

Thanks


----------



## Androider

bister said:


> All,
> 
> I do wish the best for you and I do wish that this building is completed soon and you can move into your apartments.
> 
> I do however fail to understand why most of you accept the continued bullying by ACI and RERA and their continued threats on stopping construction and issuing termination letters due to payment default. The tables should be turned, you have been subjected to a 3 year delay already, isn't about time ACI stepped up to plate and finished the work before making further threats?
> 
> The fact that ACI after even such delays have the nerve to hold the investors hostage on construction progress is unheard of globally. If they dont have the cash to finish the last floor how can you be sure they have cash to complete the interior, infrastructure and common areas? This building is 2 years away from hand-over at the current pace, what proof do you have that ACI is a going concern and can finish what they started? And please dont say that 'RERA will come to the rescue'


Agreed.

I still cant understand why would they want to re-start a half built project WITHOUT money having all this issues behind ACI.
Like someone said, we have PAID 80% as per the contract.... and next payment is on the completion.... i would not understant how would they want to finish what they have started with the 10% payment..... thats like 8 or 9 floors to go as well as the interior works .... i mean come on.... i heard that they will ask us to split the final payment into half which means 10 and 10%...


----------



## Josau

What do you think of a situation, where a building's service charges 2012 have still not been approved by RERA as of now, well 6 months into the year. Is the Building Management, which claims it has submitted the budget to RERA at the end of december 2011, taking us home owners for a ride or is RERA really so late with their budget approvals?


----------



## W40arx

Also in agreement which makes it even more necessary for a local investor to visit the RERA offices to get the plans in writing if possible! I reside in London which makes it impossible to just 'pop in' to the RERA office. 

It would be for all of our benefit if a local can find the time to get this task accomplished, preferably an Arab speaking investor as they have more of an advantage to get things done.

Regards

Waqar


----------



## Jshaikh

Dear Waqar,
Getting the written confirmation from RERA about the plans is very difficult. They are not even ready to talk. I went there few days back and after requesting a lot, got the opportunity to speak to the concerned person for few minutes only. They told me to speak to the developer on this and also asked if I wish to cancel the contract then I can. They assure that you will get whatever the money you had Invested ( After deductions, as per your agreement). No Idea, how to get the confirmation that we will get the apartment in our hands. Anyways, I will Insha Allah go to RERA again and update you all on the outcome of my visit.


----------



## worried4

*Good Topic*



TerryPop said:


> Has anybody either:
> 
> A) bought property in the name of a Jebel Ali Offshore Company
> 
> or
> 
> B) transferred property they already own in Dubai into a Jebel Ali Offshore Company
> 
> 
> Could do with any guidance on the process and costings if any one can spare the time.
> 
> Thanks


 Also, is a Ras Al Khaimah LLC better or cheaper than a JAOC?

Any advantages to buying a single property under a LLC? Taxes, yearly payments, set up charges

:cheers:


----------



## TerryPop

I don't think you can own real estate in Dubai through any other entity then a JAOC





worried4 said:


> Also, is a Ras Al Khaimah LLC better or cheaper than a JAOC?
> 
> Any advantages to buying a single property under a LLC? Taxes, yearly payments, set up charges
> 
> :cheers:


----------



## True Blue

Why would anyone want to own a property through a LLC? This would incur annual license fees, sponsor fees etc surely! 

And the sponsor would own majority of your LLC holding.

Not recommended IMO!


----------



## True Blue

I am no expert on off shore trusts but I believe the advantage is easy transfer and distribution of shares in a will for example. I think it becomes a little testy when you want to add or sell a unit from within the trust. Big legal fees!


----------



## jasper1000

Can someone give me an indication on how much my unit in Lawn 4 would be worth now if it was all finished today the unit i have is 650 square foot and a studio


----------



## anacreon

You can pick up JVC studios in today's market in the c AED 450 - 600 p sq ft basis (on net area, not gross).


----------



## MMDXB

I was researching once and all around the Jumeirah Triangle areas are more or less 300 AED/sqft ....


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> I am no expert on off shore trusts but I believe the advantage is easy transfer and distribution of shares in a will for example. I think it becomes a little testy when you want to add or sell a unit from within the trust. Big legal fees!



Let me just clarify:

A Dubai LLC is not suitable (I know that)- it is the type of company you set up outside of freezones in Dubai and requires a local partner.

The JAOC is the *Jebel Ali Offshore Company *you can own 100 % of and its sole purpose is to own property/ assets.

I think this is the offshore company that (according to press) is the one to use.


Other freezone companies (RAK, JAFZA, JLT/DMCC) etc can also be 100% owned by yourself- but I believe these are no longer allowed to own Dubai property.


----------



## worried4

*Item 18 says RE is prohibbited in JAOC*



TerryPop said:


> Let me just clarify:
> 
> A Dubai LLC is not suitable (I know that)- it is the type of company you set up outside of freezones in Dubai and requires a local partner.
> 
> The JAOC is the *Jebel Ali Offshore Company *you can own 100 % of and its sole purpose is to own property/ assets.
> 
> I think this is the offshore company that (according to press) is the one to use.
> 
> 
> Other freezone companies (RAK, JAFZA, JLT/DMCC) etc can also be 100% owned by yourself- but I believe these are no longer allowed to own Dubai property.


List of Prohibited activities in JAFZA

The following activities cannot be approved for offshore companies registered in Jebel Ali. All other activities can be conducted based on management approval and proper justification.
1.Insurance
2.Banking
3.Financial
4.Professional Services
5.Consulting
6.Intellectual Property
7.Media
8.Security
9.Publishing
10.Advertising
11.Movie Production
12.Management
13.Gambling
14.Casino
15.Property Development
16.Game and Win
17.Advisory
18.Real Estate
19.Military
20.Education
21.To carry on any lawful activity as permitted by Jebel Ali Free Zone Offshore Companies Regulation 2003.


----------



## burntfingers

Just had L4 update from developers today. Appears level two now complete and signed off. Also had letter stating due for completion and handover in first quarter 2013.
For those of you who are now committed to L4 we have obviously paid too much. I paid over 600 per sq ft. Has anyone managed to re-negotiate down this price ? I am sure the answer is NO, as we signed away our rights when we originally signed our contracts ALL THOSE YEARS AGO !!!
It will take many years I suspect for our Apartments to reach 600 + per sq ft if we want to sell. So our focus needs to be on securing a trusted renting agent ?
My concern now is ....Who will try to cheat us next ?
Can we rent our apartments AT ALL ?
My original sales agent in UK has gone bust (No longer trades). So any promises of furnishing deals / renting agents etc etc are long gone.
Some of you guys I understand from your comments will live in L4. But those of you hoping to rent next year....What will you do ?
Can we actually find people to rent too ?
How much could we get ?
What agents can be trusted ?
CAN WE APPOINT A TRUSTED AGENT TO WORK FOR ALL OF US. STRONGER TOGETHER THAN ALONE.
I for one would be gratefull for any advice / knowledge on this subject


----------



## Porcello

RAK offshore companies can be used to own properties in Dubai.
I've personally already registered 2 units recently for a friend of mine and the title deeds have been entitled to the company.

The main benefit is that the name of the owners will not be transmitted to the country of origin, achieving this way tax "optimization" (read avoidance) and privacy.


----------



## G.B.

Jshaikh said:


> Dear Waqar,
> Getting the written confirmation from RERA about the plans is very difficult. They are not even ready to talk. I went there few days back and after requesting a lot, got the opportunity to speak to the concerned person for few minutes only. They told me to speak to the developer on this and also asked if I wish to cancel the contract then I can. They assure that you will get whatever the money you had Invested ( After deductions, as per your agreement). No Idea, how to get the confirmation that we will get the apartment in our hands. Anyways, I will Insha Allah go to RERA again and update you all on the outcome of my visit.


I believe the best thing is to get all together and request aci to provide up to date information and then approach RERA


----------



## G.B.

G.B. said:


> I believe the best thing is to get all together and request aci to provide up to date information and then approach RERA


I actually have invested into Nikki Lauder project, paid 50% and what I see is only big hole, but I am willing to discuss JV with any invester in Dubai star and upon agreement both parties happy to transfer my investment into Dubai star.


----------



## Parisian Girl

_New Ritaj development hits Dubai market with 2,000 plus units_ http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...-dubai-market-with-2-000-plus-units-1.1032889


----------



## Ahmed N

G.B. said:


> I actually have invested into Nikki Lauder project, paid 50% and what I see is only big hole, but I am willing to discuss JV with any invester in Dubai star and upon agreement both parties happy to transfer my investment into Dubai star.



See guys, there are other investors who would gladly swap projects to get their hands on an apartment on Dubai Star, as things are progressing.

Ultimately we dont know if there is a hidden agenda with ACI and RERA, but from what I can see, things are progressing, and investors need to pay up, and we can get out keys to our investment.

Had anyone recently visited Dubai Star and seen any progress, of even spoken to ACI to get an update.

Thanks


----------



## sgn7200

burntfingers said:


> Just had L4 update from developers today. Appears level two now complete and signed off. Also had letter stating due for completion and handover in first quarter 2013.
> For those of you who are now committed to L4 we have obviously paid too much. I paid over 600 per sq ft. Has anyone managed to re-negotiate down this price ? I am sure the answer is NO, as we signed away our rights when we originally signed our contracts ALL THOSE YEARS AGO !!!
> It will take many years I suspect for our Apartments to reach 600 + per sq ft if we want to sell. So our focus needs to be on securing a trusted renting agent ?
> My concern now is ....Who will try to cheat us next ?
> Can we rent our apartments AT ALL ?
> My original sales agent in UK has gone bust (No longer trades). So any promises of furnishing deals / renting agents etc etc are long gone.
> Some of you guys I understand from your comments will live in L4. But those of you hoping to rent next year....What will you do ?
> Can we actually find people to rent too ?
> How much could we get ?
> What agents can be trusted ?
> CAN WE APPOINT A TRUSTED AGENT TO WORK FOR ALL OF US. STRONGER TOGETHER THAN ALONE.
> I for one would be gratefull for any advice / knowledge on this subject


Hello SAGAR DUBAI, any luck with your visit to Lawns 5. Desperate to find out as to what is happening and what is the current status. With regard to current market prices at which similar properties are selling, I think if you look at respected websites e.g. propertyfinder.ae or GNProperties4u (website: GNads4u.com) you will find the current asking price is around AED600 psf. So it is not all doom and gloom. Hopefully the things will work out the right way.


----------



## Number 49

*New board set up for Dubai Properties Group*

Dubai Holding announced on Sunday that it has set up a new board of directors for Dubai Properties Group (DPG), its real estate arm.

The newly appointed board will constitute three independent non-executive directors and two executive directors. 

The Board will be responsible for setting long-term business strategy, overseeing implementation, ensuring adequacy of internal controls and strategic risk management, Dubai Holding said in a statement. 

"This governance model has been developed after extensive benchmarking against international and local best practices within the local regulatory framework," it added.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/new-board-set-up-for-dubai-properties-group-461542.html


Interesting comment:


Dubai Properties Group (DPG) should fulfill their short term obligations before they worry about their long term strategy.
There are several developments in Dubai (for example Culture Village and Dubailand) that have stalled and/or are on hold because DPG have failed to provide the necessary power (DEWA).
I suggest DPG sort out their priorities before even more people start legal action.


----------



## Imre

Emaar will have a new launch again on Saturday, Arabian Ranches , 2-3 Br townhouses .

Any info about this?

2 Br prices can be 1.4 , 3 Br 2 million but this is just a gossip


----------



## True Blue

^^There is no point in reposting renders of the design of West Avenue. I can guarantee you that the final article will not look anything like the original design. Best places for all Select marketing material is the bin or the courts!

The delays in all Select projects are mainly down to redesigning to remove features and save costs.

I can see already that the concrete frame being constructed will not support the design. Usual Select sham!!


----------



## DennyCrane

True Blue said:


> ^^There is no point in reposting renders of the design of West Avenue. I can guarantee you that the final article will not look anything like the original design. Best places for all Select marketing material is the bin or the courts!
> 
> The delays in all Select projects are mainly down to redesigning to remove features and save costs.
> 
> I can see already that the concrete frame being constructed will not support the design. Usual Select sham!!


Unfortunately NO Select buyer can say this doesnt happen. Be wary all who look here!!


----------



## SagarDubai

Hi Friends, I have good news for you all. Lawns 4 and for Lawns 5. I had been to the site and the work at Lawns 4 is going on in full swing. They were pumping in the cement and concrete for the 2nd floor roof. Seen 50-60 workers on site + site enginners, supervisors etc.... Will post pics in my next email. 

For Lawns 5: They have completed the excavation work. Shoring work too is completed. The base of the basement is hard compressed sand. Spoke to the enginner there and he told me that they are planning to put the basement (huge rectagular steel mesh and fill in the concrete and cement). Found couple of workers down there. 

I feel the full focus is currently on Lawns 4 and then they might start the basement work. Will post some pics in my next email. 

For people who are genuinly interested in an apartment for themselves and are keen for a swap, I suggest pls do not wait. Got to DEC, negotiate and move on. For people who are not so optimistic, hesitant, then the only choice is left for them to hope and pray that one day they might get their money !! Who knows when? The way Dubai is now moving, within a short span things will get back to pre 2006-2007 levels. Just wait and watch! Its just a mattter or time and the decision you take now mattters!! Nothing risked is nothing gained!! Friends, I would be happy to hear your plans and feedbacks on this. Take care and all the best. 

PS: Posting pics for the benefit of those people who are far off but still keen to take the call !!


----------



## SagarDubai

friends, I am unable to attach pics.. pls can you let me know how to do it?
As per "Posting Rules" its mentioned as "You may not post attachments". Pls advise....


----------



## AC1979

They are looking to complete asap. 

Owners beware- plans have been made to delete the public pool and to greatly reduce the size of the gym. In place of the pool plans have been made to construct a townhouse. 

This will greatly devalue the property, which was launched as an exclusive and high priced development. 

Yes, work is in full swing.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think the quality will be good here given the price it was sold for and the fact that Botanica (a non DCE project) also sold at a higher price and is good quality with few complaints there and on par with Silverene.


----------



## sgn7200

SagarDubai said:


> Hi Friends, I have good news for you all. Lawns 4 and for Lawns 5. I had been to the site and the work at Lawns 4 is going on in full swing. They were pumping in the cement and concrete for the 2nd floor roof. Seen 50-60 workers on site + site enginners, supervisors etc.... Will post pics in my next email.
> 
> For Lawns 5: They have completed the excavation work. Shoring work too is completed. The base of the basement is hard compressed sand. Spoke to the enginner there and he told me that they are planning to put the basement (huge rectagular steel mesh and fill in the concrete and cement). Found couple of workers down there.
> 
> I feel the full focus is currently on Lawns 4 and then they might start the basement work. Will post some pics in my next email.
> 
> For people who are genuinly interested in an apartment for themselves and are keen for a swap, I suggest pls do not wait. Got to DEC, negotiate and move on. For people who are not so optimistic, hesitant, then the only choice is left for them to hope and pray that one day they might get their money !! Who knows when? The way Dubai is now moving, within a short span things will get back to pre 2006-2007 levels. Just wait and watch! Its just a mattter or time and the decision you take now mattters!! Nothing risked is nothing gained!! Friends, I would be happy to hear your plans and feedbacks on this. Take care and all the best.
> 
> PS: Posting pics for the benefit of those people who are far off but still keen to take the call !!


Good Work Sagar Dubai! Keep us posted with regard to progress of Lawns 4 & 5. You are doing a good service to those who are living away frm Dubai.


----------



## torchowner

Dubai_Steve said:


> I think the quality will be good here given the price it was sold for and the fact that Botanica (a non DCE project) also sold at a higher price and is good quality with few complaints there and on par with Silverene.


Does it mean that you finally admit that Silverene is good quality and sold at lower prices compared to Botanica and Bay _'leaning towers' _Central!!:cheers:


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> I think the quality will be good here given the price it was sold for and the fact that Botanica (a non DCE project) also sold at a higher price and is good quality with few complaints there and on par with Silverene.


The units are tiny and poorly appointed according to the floor plans. 

Just because it sold for twice the price of Silverene does not mean it will rent on a comparible basis. The pool area will over look a 14 lane motorway!!

Really don't know why you are throwing in all this meaningless pro SG opinion at the moment! Torch rents up 35% this year for example :nuts:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ I agree with you re. rents at west avenue will not make for a good investment here for those that paid 2000 psf. My comment had nothing to do with that. My comment was about the quality of the work that can be likely expected here.

Re. Torch 85k at handover / 115k now = 35% increase.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ I agree with you re. rents at west avenue will not make for a good investment here for those that paid 2000 psf. My comment had nothing to do with that. My comment was about the quality of the work that can be likely expected here.
> 
> Re. Torch 85k at handover / 115k now = 35% increase.


We will see, Botanica quality is fairly superficial and does not correlate to the price paid. Relative to price paid, it is poor quality. Same here, relative to the price paid it will be poor quality.

As for your Torch heavily skewed data, are you saying you only got 85k for your 2 bed marina facing?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> We will see, Botanica quality is fairly superficial and does not correlate to the price paid. Relative to price paid, it is poor quality. Same here, relative to the price paid it will be poor quality.
> 
> As for your Torch heavily skewed data, are you saying you only got 85k for your 2 bed marina facing?


Some friends and colleagues let their 2 bed marina facing go for 85k at handover due to accepting first offers without question and agents not bothering to sell at a good price, preferring fast turnaround. A typical situation at handover of towers with many units. Now you will be lucky to get one for less than 110k and 115k has been achieved for such units and 120k+ for furnished ones.


----------



## True Blue

^^Did not answer my question as you wish to continue posting skewed and missleading information. 

Stroll on Steve! hno:


----------



## Parisian Girl

_Dubai tenancy contracts have to be in one person's name only_ http://www.emirates247.com/property...in-one-person-s-name-only-2012-06-12-1.462627


----------



## Imre

*Immigration office stifled after suspension of new rule*

*Rent contract decision causes shock among low-paid expatriates*

By StaffPublished Wednesday, June 13, 2012

Hundreds of expatriates flooded Abu Dhabi’s massive immigration building on Wednesday to take advantage of a decision to suspend new rules requiring them to submit a tenancy contract for the renewal of their visas.

Many applicants confirmed on Wednesday that were not asked to present a rent contact in their application but were told the requirement would be enforced soon. Some of them were asked to submit a rent contract last week when the decision was enforced for a few days before it was shelved.

Immigration officials said the suspension is only temporary and that the new regulations would be enforced in Abu Dhabi and other emirates shortly.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...er-suspension-of-new-rule-2012-06-13-1.462954


----------



## jonny.rotten13

Porcello said:


> RAK offshore companies can be used to own properties in Dubai.
> I've personally already registered 2 units recently for a friend of mine and the title deeds have been entitled to the company.
> 
> The main benefit is that the name of the owners will not be transmitted to the country of origin, achieving this way tax "optimization" (read avoidance) and privacy.


Did you do this recently because there was lot of news about RAK offshore companies not allowed anymore to buy Dubai property. If the property was already in, it was ok, but not allowed to buy anything after the new rules.


----------



## jonny.rotten13

worried4 said:


> List of Prohibited activities in JAFZA
> 
> The following activities cannot be approved for offshore companies registered in Jebel Ali. All other activities can be conducted based on management approval and proper justification.
> 1.Insurance
> 2.Banking
> 3.Financial
> 4.Professional Services
> 5.Consulting
> 6.Intellectual Property
> 7.Media
> 8.Security
> 9.Publishing
> 10.Advertising
> 11.Movie Production
> 12.Management
> 13.Gambling
> 14.Casino
> 15.Property Development
> 16.Game and Win
> 17.Advisory
> 18.Real Estate
> 19.Military
> 20.Education
> 21.To carry on any lawful activity as permitted by Jebel Ali Free Zone Offshore Companies Regulation 2003.


I think 'Real Estate' means a business like estate agent, and does not mean just to buy investment property.


----------



## Souz28

We are leaving Dubai in a week and decided to sell our 2 properties in JLT (in one we lived and one we rented out on short-term) as we kind of desappointed with DMCC, PDC etc and iwe nstead decided to buy 1 property in Dubai Marina. We thought it will take couple of months to sell our properties so we put an ad for sale for one mid of March and another beginning of April. The first property (2-beds around 1700 sq.foot) we sold after 2&half weeks after advertising - for the price we were asking for (the price was non-negotiable from our side). There were lots of interested and lots of offers: primary from India, Pakistan and Iran origin. Few interests were from Companies in JLT. 
When we put our second property (Studio in JLT) on the market, after 2 days some Russian investor put a deposit for our apartment without even viewing it (I had short-term tenants there that time). As real estate agent said, this Russian investor buying apartments in JLT as he sees a future in this area.
When we started to look for 1-bed apartment in Dubai Marina with good views in the budget of 950K all inclusive, we could not believe: the agents actually were not interested... When we find something advertised on Dubizzle, we call and the property is either already sold or the seller doesn't want to sell it anymore. In some cases sellers were increasing their prices from advertised. Some agents straight away were saying that there are no available apartments with good views for below 900K (not talking about vacant apartments - all of them come with tenants), some agents naver called back, some said we have to book viewing 4-5 days in advance as they are too busy. We were shocked. Eventually after 3 weeks we found apartment in Marina Crown with panoramic sea view from all rooms for 800K plus comissions+transfer fees. We were first to view the apartment (as tenant always travels and agent can't easily show the flat), we liked it (though kitchen and sinks in the bathrooms a bit outdated, and there is tram works in front of the building at the moment)) and we put deposit straight away. Another shock came when the agent couldn't take an appointment with Land Department for transfer earlier than after 2 weeks. Land Department said that they are fully booked for 2 weeks.
I am not sure if it was a good deal for us with Marina Crown but we couldn't find anything cheaper (or even below 900K )with good views. Just a note: we didn't want Tiger/Home builders buildings, Marina Diamond. We liked the apartment also in the Point for 860K with full Marina view but the quality of the building looked very poor, many holes everywhere in the ceiling in common areas, fountains not working, all corners are cheaped, plants/grass dead, lots of mould here and there and the building is only 2 years old. And the service charge was around 20 AED per sq.foot. So, we didn't go for it.

So, I guess there is a bit of activity in Dubai market....?


----------



## AppleMac

Souz28 said:


> Another shock came when the agent couldn't take an appointment with Land Department for transfer earlier than after 2 weeks. Land Department said that they are fully booked for 2 weeks.


Been like that for months - just turn up early, wait a bit and they will fit you in. Think it more to do with lack of staff rather than how busy the market is.


----------



## diku

AppleMac said:


> Been like that for months - just turn up early, wait a bit and they will fit you in. Think it more to do with lack of staff rather than how busy the market is.


I think both is true. But I have noticed land department staff is very cooperative in my case... Even before one year exact on this month, it took 7days for me to book appointment with Land department.
If you are in process of transfer.... Arrange appointment faster coz, Holy month of Ramadan is coming and reduced working hours....


----------



## noir-dresses

I wonder what the average price per square foot in the Marina, and JLT are now compared to let's say a year ago ?


----------



## Souz28

I don't know about Dubai Marina. But I was watching market on my 2-bed (1698 sq.foot) in Al Seef 2 JLT. In January 2011 dubizzle price for it was 1.1 million. And in March dubizzle price was around 1.27 - 1.32 million. I sold it for 1.32 but paid from this amount 20K commissions to real estate for finding a buyer (so comission went from our side, not the buyer's)


----------



## noir-dresses

Souz28 said:


> I don't know about Dubai Marina. But I was watching market on my 2-bed (1698 sq.foot) in Al Seef 2 JLT. In January 2011 dubizzle price for it was 1.1 million. And in March dubizzle price was around 1.27 - 1.32 million. I sold it for 1.32 but paid from this amount 20K commissions to real estate for finding a buyer (so comission went from our side, not the buyer's)


So that's about 777 AED/ft2 in JLT with an actual sale a few months ago. A year ago JLT bottomed out at 580-650 AED/ft2. Wouldn't be surprised if the price has increased since March.


----------



## agod

I know someone who owns Commercial Property there, and it has risen to 700, from his purchase of 600.

Everything is on the up, dont let them tell you otherwise.

Al.


----------



## True Blue

I went into BH to list my 2 bed Dorrabay unit for rent at the beginning of May. The Agent kept trying to get me to sell it, said he had buyers that would buy tomorrow for 850/ft. I just kept laughing and telling him that it was prime views and worth 1100/ft. Once I told him what I thought it was worth he then said he would ask around and may still have a buyer. FFS! I told him not to bother, I was only wanting to rent it out not sell.

Still plenty of investors about looking for bargains, money in a bank is not even covering inflation losses so better to buy property and rent for returns with good possibility of capital gains in the future. It's a no brainer really.


----------



## True Blue

Souz28 said:


> We are leaving Dubai in a week and decided to sell our 2 properties in JLT (in one we lived and one we rented out on short-term) as we kind of desappointed with DMCC, PDC etc and iwe nstead decided to buy 1 property in Dubai Marina. We thought it will take couple of months to sell our properties so we put an ad for sale for one mid of March and another beginning of April. The first property (2-beds around 1700 sq.foot) we sold after 2&half weeks after advertising - for the price we were asking for (the price was non-negotiable from our side). There were lots of interested and lots of offers: primary from India, Pakistan and Iran origin. Few interests were from Companies in JLT.
> When we put our second property (Studio in JLT) on the market, after 2 days some Russian investor put a deposit for our apartment without even viewing it (I had short-term tenants there that time). As real estate agent said, this Russian investor buying apartments in JLT as he sees a future in this area.
> When we started to look for 1-bed apartment in Dubai Marina with good views in the budget of 950K all inclusive, we could not believe: the agents actually were not interested... When we find something advertised on Dubizzle, we call and the property is either already sold or the seller doesn't want to sell it anymore. In some cases sellers were increasing their prices from advertised. Some agents straight away were saying that there are no available apartments with good views for below 900K (not talking about vacant apartments - all of them come with tenants), some agents naver called back, some said we have to book viewing 4-5 days in advance as they are too busy. We were shocked. Eventually after 3 weeks we found apartment in Marina Crown with panoramic sea view from all rooms for 800K plus comissions+transfer fees. We were first to view the apartment (as tenant always travels and agent can't easily show the flat), we liked it (though kitchen and sinks in the bathrooms a bit outdated, and there is tram works in front of the building at the moment)) and we put deposit straight away. Another shock came when the agent couldn't take an appointment with Land Department for transfer earlier than after 2 weeks. Land Department said that they are fully booked for 2 weeks.
> I am not sure if it was a good deal for us with Marina Crown but we couldn't find anything cheaper (or even below 900K )with good views. Just a note: we didn't want Tiger/Home builders buildings, Marina Diamond. We liked the apartment also in the Point for 860K with full Marina view but the quality of the building looked very poor, many holes everywhere in the ceiling in common areas, fountains not working, all corners are cheaped, plants/grass dead, lots of mould here and there and the building is only 2 years old. And the service charge was around 20 AED per sq.foot. So, we didn't go for it.
> 
> So, I guess there is a bit of activity in Dubai market....?


I'm a bit surprised that you sold JLT and bought Marina Crown. MC isn't really the marina proper and the location is a bit out of the way of most things and the traffic is noisy at night. Ocean Heights is a great building but suffers from its location not attracting rentals to match the quality of the development.

Bargains in prime developments are thin on the ground. Prime will remain prime and is worth paying that little bit extra for a marina waterfront view. Otherwise stay in JLT, some parts of JLT are turning out very nice especially around Almas tower and JLT metro station. Good transport links, not so much of a traffic headache and peacful at night.


----------



## Parisian Girl

_Ejari-registered leases mandatory for renewing commercial licenses in Dubai_ http://www.emirates247.com/property...mercial-licenses-in-dubai-2012-06-20-1.463825


----------



## Souz28

We bought 2 properties in JLT when there were just few buildings under construction. When we baught, we expected more than we see it now. It is of course better now, but still... My husband was on AO Board and always in touch with DMCC for all problems etc... They are b...t.... They don't know themselves what they are doing and whatever questiones they can't answer - they say " oh, we are government, that's why we can do it..." And all this PDC b...t . PLus the lakes are not what we expected. From the side of cluster X it's already smells and lots of bugs on the water. And then again when they start converting one of the lakes into park - again construction works? Now, near T cluster they also put some pump and it's noisy almost whole day. 
Re Marina Crown - I liked panoramic view from all windows, and the size was good: not too big, not too small. Also the building is 5 years but it looks better maintained than for example The Point where everything is falling apart though it's only 2 years old. We thought once the tram will be done, than Marina Crown will be in better position. Plus it's just opposite Mina Seyahi...Barasti Bar...West Inn... And the service charge including AC is only 14 AED per sq.foot. So we calculated, doesn't really matter how much is apartment cost - at the end of the day it's still almost the same net profit in %. We don't want to invest more and get the same % plus higher service fees.


----------



## True Blue

^^If you are happy, I'm delighted 

Just my 2 cents worth, but your reasons are sound enough.


----------



## True Blue

My friend contacted me recently for advice. He is working in Dubai and his employer was asked to produce copies of tenancy contracts and DEWA bills for each of their employees.

Firstly he owns his apartment so could not produce a valid tenancy contract. So he queried why he must produce a DEWA bill. The answer came back that all expat employees must show that they are paying the Housing fees through DEWA. Anyone not paying housing fees will receive a fine. He checked his DEWA bill and there was no charge in the housing fees section so off he went to DEWA office in Disco Gardens to get it sorted and avoid the fine. DEWA customer service adviser explained that he will NOT be charged housing fees as he is the owner, only expat tenants shall pay the housing fees.

Seems a complete mess, I know that I was paying housing fees when my apartments were not rented out and the DEWA was in my name. They are trying to implement rules that no one knows what the rules are.


----------



## speculator

italiano_pellicano said:


> guys please


As has been mentioned the market is saturated with such offers. I'd be very careful and make sure you have an outstanding product and location.


----------



## Imre

*Cost of registering rent contract*

*Costs and rules vary from emirate to emirate*

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Thursday, June 21, 2012 

*Dubai*

In Dubai, either the tenant or the landlord, has to register the contract on Ejari. The landlord can do it online by logging on to the Ejari website, however, the tenant has to visit one of the DLD authorized typing centres.

The typing centre charges an additional Dh35 for their service besides the Dh160 fee. Some of the authorized centres provide an "urgent" service, charging Dh25 in addition to the normal typing charge (Dh35).

*The documents required in Dubai are:*

*-Original tenancy contract

-Dewa bill

-Copy of the title deed or affection (site) plan

-Passport copy with visa page*

http://www.emirates247.com/property/cost-of-registering-rent-contract-2012-06-21-1.463888



So it seems tenant can do it also and very important if the title deed is not available you should have an affection (site) plan from developer.


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> *Cost of registering rent contract*
> 
> *Costs and rules vary from emirate to emirate*
> 
> By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Thursday, June 21, 2012
> 
> *Dubai*
> 
> In Dubai, either the tenant or the landlord, has to register the contract on Ejari. The landlord can do it online by logging on to the Ejari website, however, the tenant has to visit one of the DLD authorized typing centres.
> 
> The typing centre charges an additional Dh35 for their service besides the Dh160 fee. Some of the authorized centres provide an "urgent" service, charging Dh25 in addition to the normal typing charge (Dh35).
> 
> *The documents required in Dubai are:*
> 
> *-Original tenancy contract
> 
> -Dewa bill
> 
> -Copy of the title deed or affection (site) plan
> 
> -Passport copy with visa page*
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/property/cost-of-registering-rent-contract-2012-06-21-1.463888
> 
> 
> 
> So it seems tenant can do it also and very important if the title deed is not available you should have an affection (site) plan from developer.


I was going to register mine at the last visit but the Ejari office needed a copy of the tenants DEWA bill. WTF! Dubai amazes me with the red tape they are producing, why do we need to wait for a DEWA bill to be issued before we register a tenancy contract? :nuts:


----------



## True Blue

WARNING to all landlords out there;

On the subject of Dubai red tape, my new tenant went to register his DEWA account for his new tenancy and DEWA refused to open an account in his name as the previous tenant had not paid DEWA for almost a year! The outstanding amount was 1,200AED which they insisted was cleared before the new account could be opened. Silly me had refunded part of the security deposit by the time I found out about this.

Why is it the landlord responsibility to do DEWA's job for them? If the tenant is allowed to run up massive arrears then that's DEWA's problem. They should have cut off the supply after more than 1 month non payment!!


----------



## dansss

*A LITTLE CLARIFICATION NEEDED.REGARDING YOUR REPLY DATED 2010*



HH2010 said:


> Hi ask my lawyer, Mr. Naser Muheyeldin, form Emirates Fortune Group, 050 65 48529, he has won already cases against them


Hi 
i read your reply recently i would like to know if you have filed any case with the above lawyer.If yes what was your experience.Please share with me.Which is the property cases won.Also upon the judgement how was the money paid back.


----------



## BlueBath

*Investor Protection Law*

*Property investors in Dubai can seek refund and damages*
Draft Investor Protection Law released for feedback from public.

Published Thursday, June 21, 2012


http://www.emirates247.com/property...n-seek-refund-and-damages-2012-06-21-1.463886


----------



## anacreon

MMDXB said:


> I was researching once and all around the Jumeirah Triangle areas are more or less 300 AED/sqft ....


I reckon that you would struggle to find a studio or small 1 bed at that kind of price (for net, not gross, area), as it would work out at below cost at today's construction costs.


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> The management associations need to be given more powers, even to the point of repossessing units and selling them at auction for serious continual defaults.
> 
> Some people lack the education and think that if they use the premises as a holiday home and only visit 2 weeks of the year then they should not be liable for a full years charges :nuts: They either did not read their OA constitution or they don't understand it and think they should not pay if it is vacant. I also know of cases of units owned by local Emiratis who point blank refuse to pay. They believe they are exempt from all charges and that they apply to expats only.


Can you see expats avoiding buildings where locals live ? I'd figure the locals have money, at least enough to pay maintenance fees, or is it a superiority complex ?


----------



## Parisian Girl

_Indian developer takes 2 projects under Dubai's Tanmia scheme_ http://www.emirates247.com/property...der-dubai-s-tanmia-scheme-2012-06-26-1.464576


----------



## Josau

Imre said:


> Would be better if they mention the names also, not only the apartment numbers


In my building, there was a note on each unit's door which hadn't payed. Interestingly, these notes stayed up for quite a while, so I assume, the units were not occupied.
I think there should be a system, where they link the signature of a tenancy contract or the renewal of a tenancy contract to the payment or non payment of service charges. Just like they do it for sales (NOC). I know of a lot of units, which are successfully rented and the owner doesn't pay nevertheless.


----------



## Imre

Josau said:


> I think there should be a system, where they link the signature of a tenancy contract or the renewal of a tenancy contract to the payment or non payment of service charges. Just like they do it for sales (NOC). I know of a lot of units, which are successfully rented and the owner doesn't pay nevertheless.


Yes or similar system as the car registration, every year owners should renew for a smaller fee and without that card cant sell or rent the apartment.

Its also extra money for the government and safe for tenants/landlords.:lol:

Something similar would be good otherwise people wont pay service charge and the building value just going down..


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

Dubai already have a law catering for such cases, the Strata Law. But like many other regulations that law is not being enforced which is very perplexing and detrimental to the market. The Strata Law allows for a lien being placed against a unit in arrears of service fees. The HOA would then collect the outstanding fees upon the sale of the unit. In e.g. the USA the time between a lien being placed upon a property till the time that property is brought for sale on the open market is as little as 24 days.


----------



## AppleMac

Trouble is that the Strata Law has not been implemented and no HOA's are legal entities. Until that happens (if ever) the whole system is in limbo. That being said, I dont appreciate Imre's idea that us owners should be paying yet another 'Fee'.


----------



## Imre

AppleMac said:


> That being said, I dont appreciate Imre's idea that us owners should be paying yet another 'Fee'.


Its not popular but government need to do something , Strata Law seems useless as no control at all..

You will see a big problem in the future , I visiting buildings every day , some of them just 3-5 years old but looks like 10-15 if you are inside.. and it will be just worst as 70-80 % of owners outside the country.

The rental value for some towers already low because of the poor maintenance .

Botanica ( Torch will have the same soon) has a good solution, lifts working only with access card, so owners must pay the service charge otherwise tenants will have problems..


----------



## True Blue

We had to put access control on the gym as free loaders from JBR were shamelessly using it. One guy was a personal trainer taking his clients to our gym. He should have been reported to the police IMO.

I'm not sure if Cayan have had the bottle yet to turn off access cards for non payment but I know the system turns off cards that are not used for a while. Everytime I go back to Dubai I have to report to the conceirge and get him to reactivate my "Landlord" access card.


----------



## True Blue

AppleMac said:


> Trouble is that the Strata Law has not been implemented and no HOA's are legal entities. Until that happens (if ever) the whole system is in limbo. ..........................


What's the point of a law that isn't enforceable?

We voted in a new property manager last year who was charging less than half the price of the developer. Developer refused to step aside. With no legally formed OA what can we do?

It is supposed to have happened recently as i noted Le Reve has the first legally constituted OA. We'll see!


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> What's the point of a law that isn't enforceable?


Not a lot. Abu Dhabi has not gone down the HOA route, they will leave the developers in charge of ongoing maintenance, so perhaps Dubai is having a rethink about the system.


----------



## Flintbug

True Blue said:


> What's the point of a law that isn't enforceable?
> 
> We voted in a new property manager last year who was charging less than half the price of the developer. Developer refused to step aside. With no legally formed OA what can we do?
> 
> It is supposed to have happened recently as i noted Le Reve has the first legally constituted OA. We'll see!


Could the property manager you voted in simply start performing the duties authorised by your vote? If they are denied the legal rights conferred by the Strata Law, they may be able to start a court case as a legal entity rather than wait for a legally constituted HOA.


----------



## Parisian Girl

_Is this the end of accommodation sharing in Dubai?_
http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...modation-sharing-in-dubai-2012-06-28-1.464879


----------



## Parisian Girl

_Auctions come in handy for investors in Dubai’s real estate_
http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...or-investors-in-dubai-s-real-estate-1.1041652


----------



## AppleMac

Flintbug said:


> Could the property manager you voted in simply start performing the duties authorised by your vote? If they are denied the legal rights conferred by the Strata Law, they may be able to start a court case as a legal entity rather than wait for a legally constituted HOA.


Trouble is that if you are not a legal entity you cannot open a bank account - and until the OA becomes a legal entity, by Law, the developer is the only person allowed to collect Maintenance Fees.


----------



## True Blue

^^And because they are not a legally constituted body they can't sign a contract with a property management company.

It's all a disaster. I feel sorry for the people who have given up so much of their time in the pursuit of establishing an IOA and unable to now legally form the Home Owners Association because UAE do not want to finally hand over control of strata to outsiders.


----------



## J39

True Blue said:


> ^^There is no point in reposting renders of the design of West Avenue. I can guarantee you that the final article will not look anything like the original design. Best places for all Select marketing material is the bin or the courts!
> 
> The delays in all Select projects are mainly down to redesigning to remove features and save costs.
> 
> I can see already that the concrete frame being constructed will not support the design. Usual Select sham!!


Sitting in the pool at Silverene watching the Oh so slow work going on at West Avenue.
Quality of work does not look good, apartment size seems small, then there are the 'great views'
Select sold this as the last available plot on the marina, which it clearly is not.
I pity anyone who has bought into this overpriced, badly located development


----------



## Beppe786

J39 said:


> Sitting in the pool at Silverene watching the Oh so slow work going on at West Avenue.
> Quality of work does not look good, apartment size seems small, then there are the 'great views'
> Select sold this as the last available plot on the marina, which it clearly is not.
> I pity anyone who has bought into this overpriced, badly located development



so you admit that living at silverene is like living on a building site? all the noise properly go on for the next three years or so.. bet tennants are not happy


----------



## Josau

What you point out Beppe 786 is what I think is the only negative point about Silverene. It is surrounded by construction for years to come. (West Avenue, then the hotel plot towards the Marina mall). Unfortunately the pool is not facing the Marina.


----------



## J39

Beppe786 said:


> so you admit that living at silverene is like living on a building site? all the noise properly go on for the next three years or so.. bet tennants are not happy


I lived in a Select built property for over two years, there were very few happy owners or residents there.Most people either left or sold up.
Virtually everyone I have spoken to at Silverene is happy with the building.
As for the noise level from West Avenue it is very slight.
I would rather live anywhere other than in a building built by Select.


----------



## True Blue

Beppe786 said:


> *so you admit that living at silverene is like living on a building site?* all the noise properly go on for the next three years or so.. bet tennants are not happy


It's not the same as living in Bay Central where the construction work is actually on site and directly affecting the enjoyment of the buildings. This work is going on across the road on an entirely separate plot. I thought that was obvious!

Sounds like your tenants are not happy, although you won't be bothering as you are getting more rent at BC than Silverene gets, "allegedly" :lol:


----------



## Rakeshdxb

I'm attending the meeting with CEO of RERA on 12 July at DED.

Who else is attending?


----------



## Parisian Girl

_Dubai property market buoyant; rents firm up_
http://www.emirates247.com/property...ket-buoyant-rents-firm-up-2012-07-01-1.465297


----------



## cayman1

Rakeshdxb said:


> I'm attending the meeting with CEO of RERA on 12 July at DED.
> 
> Who else is attending?


Please can you asl about. Sami tower project ?


----------



## Opus 2009

Is it possible for a Jebel Ali Offshore Company incorporated in Jafza to own real estate in Dubai?


----------



## W40arx

For the investors that cannot be present, such as myself, please update this thread with any information that you may obtain from the investors meeting. 

Thanks, Waqar


----------



## rallyman

*ded ?*

where is the meeting ? i would like to attend


----------



## W40arx

R u an investor? If so u should have got an email! It's too late now as all spaces have been filled!


----------



## jeetha

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/jail-for-bounced-cheques--deterrent-nakheel-boss-464418.html


Jail for bounced cheques a “deterrent” - Nakheel boss


----------



## True Blue

^^This Lootah guy does not inspire me with any confidence with his string of bad decisions. They drained all 6 swimming pools in marina residence due to a high default rate on service charges. So what about the people that paid their service charges, they have to suffer? All that happens next is no one pays as they have been deprived of their rights!! What a donkey!

All Nakheel developments are the worst run, worst value developments in Dubai. Maybe if they offered transparency then people would pay without the need to constantly question. I'm not a Nakheel customer, but observing from the outside and reading constant bad press just tells me he is not the man for the job. 

Get Bob Diamond in, he's now available and will "fix" the rates in everyone's favour :lol:


----------



## FWIW

True Blue said:


> ^^This Lootah guy does not inspire me with any confidence with his string of bad decisions. They drained all 6 swimming pools in marina residence due to a high default rate on service charges. So what about the people that paid their service charges, they have to suffer? All that happens next is no one pays as they have been deprived of their rights!! What a donkey!
> 
> All Nakheel developments are the worst run, worst value developments in Dubai. Maybe if they offered transparency then people would pay without the need to constantly question. I'm not a Nakheel customer, but observing from the outside and reading constant bad press just tells me he is not the man for the job.
> 
> Get Bob Diamond in, he's now available and will "fix" the rates in everyone's favour :lol:


Wow - didn't think any other company was worse than Select! Draining of pools is crazy!


----------



## True Blue

FWIW said:


> Wow - didn't think any other company was worse than Select! Draining of pools is crazy!


The difference is that Select pocket all the excessive profit, Nakheel use the profit from overcharging for services to prop up their badly run development business. 

Makes you sick reading that article when Lootah is talking about people bouncing cheques on him when Nakheel's service charge demands have been overturned on a number of occasions for false accounting and overcharging for services. They were trying to charge 25AED/ft at Discovery Gardens when none of the recreational areas were finished. Rera had to step in and order them to reduce the fees.

This is also a company who have cashed cheques for 50% of the purchase price for villas on Palm Jebel Ali and have not even started building anything. That is just 1 project, there is thousands of stalled properties in Nakheels books where they demand the money and do not progress diligently. They have been taken to court and slaughtered by rich investors. They are getting slaughtered by contractors who have not been properly paid for work done and they will be slaughtered by investors in projects on Palm Jumeirah Golden mile development that has still not been handed over. Their customer service and attempts to deprive owners of their facilities is a disgrace. All this started when Chris O'Donell was illegally sacked by Lootah and he took over at the top. His management style is shocking. The article does not praise him in any way and highlights the trail of turmoil that lies in his wake every time he makes a decision. Surely his time at the top of Nakheel is limited.

http://www.zawya.com/story/ZW20120209000094/

I wonder if Nakheel ever paid up?


----------



## diku

*Expat Wills in UAE/Dubai?*

I dont know is it right place for posting this or not...

Kindly if someone having experience, guide me for good lawyer/firm to prepare Expat Wills in UAE/Dubai?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## sgn7200

jasper1000 said:


> Lawn 4 as of last week the 3rd slab is in place. Looks like the last slap could be completed within 4 weeks


Hi Jasper1000! How about Lawn 5. Can you tell us something about the progrss being made on that front. Thanks and well done.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Parisian Girl said:


> _Dubai property market buoyant; rents firm up_
> http://www.emirates247.com/property...ket-buoyant-rents-firm-up-2012-07-01-1.465297


Parisian, nice pic, is that you?


----------



## burntfingers

Hi All,
Just been sent update and 5 photo's of L4 regarding the 3rd slab and starting last slab by DEC.
Could some-one clear up a mystery for me ? I have still to pay the 3,000 for the Interim Registration and have been asked to do so. But other investors have not to-date been contacted AT ALL on this Interim Registration Fee. 
Is this Interim Fee a legal requirement.....if so why are we all not in the same boat, so to speak ?
As it now looks like actually being completed I feel I should now Pay the 3,000 despite this figure being unduly high on the Admin side (2,000 out of the 3,000)
Comments welcome.
Also did not get ONE SINGLE response regarding my previous post of the feasibility of being able to Rent Out and How Much could we expect in this climate once L4 handed over. Please read my previous post for detail.
Thanks


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> The difference is that Select pocket all the excessive profit


Torch service charges only AED 16.5 now (inc. chiller) and set to go down again later, so not sure if this is true anymore. :dunno:

Select also took the initiative to install lift cards at the Torch and Botanica and can disable access to tenants for landlords that do not pay service charges, so no need to do stupid things like drain pool that other developers are doing.


----------



## jonny.rotten13

Opus 2009 said:


> Is it possible for a Jebel Ali Offshore Company incorporated in Jafza to own real estate in Dubai?


The problem with this thread is that when someone has a good question about wanting to invest in property in Dubai nobody likes to help you.

But to answer you Opus, yes JAFZA is a way to own property in Dubai. 

Off course you can buy it in your own name too, but probably nobody here will tell you about the pitfalls of that because that is what they have doine anyway.


----------



## jonny.rotten13

worried4 said:


> Did you do it yourself or did you use a company to that for you? Could you share the name of the company if you were satisfied with their services and a point of contact


Be careful before you spend any money on forming a RAK company because as far as I know it cannot buy Dubai propert now. I hear there is no use for a property investor to now form a RAK company to buy property.


----------



## Opus 2009

jonny.rotten13 said:


> Be careful before you spend any money on forming a RAK company because as far as I know it cannot buy Dubai propert now. I hear there is no use for a property investor to now form a RAK company to buy property.


Thankyou Jonny Rotten for your reply. I also heard that RAK companies are not an option any more in terms of owning property in Dubai. JAFZA is really the way to go, but not sure if it covers all Freehold areas or only Nakheel owned projects. I will post information on the forum once I get the details.


----------



## anacreon

If you go to the RERA website, it seems to show that of all the Lawns projects only Lawns IV is a current project. Does this mean that RERA have now cancelled all the others?


----------



## worried4

*Is there another thread*



Opus 2009 said:


> Thankyou Jonny Rotten for your reply. I also heard that RAK companies are not an option any more in terms of owning property in Dubai. JAFZA is really the way to go, but not sure if it covers all Freehold areas or only Nakheel owned projects. I will post information on the forum once I get the details.


Perhaps there is another thread that deals with such matters. Please let me know if you find one.


----------



## TerryPop

worried4 said:


> Perhaps there is another thread that deals with such matters. Please let me know if you find one.


I too believe the only entity allowed to own freehold property in Dubai is a JAOC (jafza offshore company).

But what is not clear is whether it is allowed to have an activity in Dubai i.e. renting and taking money in the local market.


If you put say a dozen properties into a JAFZA Offshore company- is that company allowed to take rents from the local market?

I know that most freezones are not supposed to trade in the local market.


----------



## Imre

Better to check with them first as the rules changing weekly here...


----------



## I Know

*Dubai's RERA mulls fines for individual brokers*

After checking, you should check again.



> Dubai's real estate regulator said on Tuesday it was mulling plans to fine individual brokers for violations rather than the firms they work for.


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-s-rera-mulls-fines-for-individual-brokers-464540.html


----------



## mlubbad

when should we expect to pay the remaining 20% payment at handover?
with over 2 years of delay in handover from the promised March 2010, wouldn't that open the chance to claim compensation from owners for that period?


----------



## nenumal

Other reputed developers in this area are offering 30-35% discount for the similar cases with the consultation with RERA, so definitely, the developer of West Wharf who is also having strong reputation in the Real Estate Market, there could be some sort of compensation/discount on the cards, as well, before final handing over the project. Be positive.:cheers::cheers::cheers:


----------



## chefdude

Imre said:


> Better to check with them first as the rules changing weekly here...


This is where the UAE shoots itself in the foot time after time, they need to come up with cohesive and realistic regulations then stick with them for at least 5 - 10 years until natural change dictates modifications.

Anybody know if the Property Owner visa is actually planned to make a return even in this stupid 6 month >1m AED guise or is this another endless implementation?


----------



## Cayman

Could anyone who has recently set up a JAFZA Offshore compnay tell me the total costs involved?


----------



## I Know

*Land Department urges developers to “discourage” investors from re-selling “off plan”*



Parisian Girl said:


> _Dubai property market buoyant; rents firm up_
> http://www.emirates247.com/property...ket-buoyant-rents-firm-up-2012-07-01-1.465297






> Lately, a number of investors have already put their apartments in Emaar’s Panorama project on sale for a premium that ranges between seven and 10 per cent.


Full Article - http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...flipping-returns-to-dubai-2012-07-08-1.466221


----------



## UAE Investor

Could this be the final draft ready for publicaton..


http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/Upload/...TION OF THE REAL ESTATE INVESTOR IN DUBAI.pdf


----------



## MarkWass

UAE Investor said:


> Could this be the final draft ready for publicaton..
> 
> 
> http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/Upload/...TION OF THE REAL ESTATE INVESTOR IN DUBAI.pdf


Looks the same as the first draft, unless you know otherwise?

http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/English/Investor_law.aspx


----------



## UAE Investor

MarkWass said:


> Looks the same as the first draft, unless you know otherwise?
> 
> http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/English/Investor_law.aspx


Yeah i don,t know, other than its origin is from the same government source etc,seems to be little altered from original ,but i have not been thru it like for like ..

but the main ingredients has,nt changed which is very good news,if it happens.

Article (36)

1. If the Developer fails to complete the Real Estate Unit or fails to hand over possession
to the Intending Investor within [ • ] months after the date specified in the contract
for Sale as the estimated or agreed date for handover whether or not the contract for
22751494-2
Sale includes a provision allowing the Developer to delay completion and handover in
any circumstances;
2. If the Real Estate Unit as built is materially different from the Real Estate Unit’s
specification as specified under the contract for Sale including a decrease of 30% or
more in the net area.
3. If the Developer deliberately and with the intention of defrauding the Intending
Investor fails to comply with the Real Estate Unit’s specification or the specifications
of the Common Areas and facilities under the contract for Sale with the result that
some are missing at the time of handover.
4. If the Developer alters the specifications of the Real Estate Unit without obtaining the
required permit from the competent authority to such change in violation of the
applicable rules and regulations as a result of which the Intending Investor is likely to
suffer material loss or harm.
In any such case the Intending Investor shall be entitled to repayment of all amounts paid
by it to the Developer.


If Article (36) shall not apply, the following circumstances shall entitle an Intending
Investor to payment of compensation:
1. Breach of any warranty or undertaking contained in the contract for Sale by the Seller
and the Broker.
2. Misrepresentation by the Developer or Investor or Broker.
3. Specifications in violation of the contract for Sale after obtaining an expert’s report to
that effect.
4. Delay for a period more than one month and less than one year.
The Intending Investor shall be entitled to recover compensation from whoever of the
Developer Investor or Broker shall have caused the loss. If more than one is responsible
every such person shall be [jointly a severally] liable for and bound by the information
and data provided to the Intending Investor prior to the Sale, whether such information
was provided by means of a letter in writing, announcement

http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/Upload/...TION OF THE REAL ESTATE INVESTOR IN DUBAI.pdf


----------



## UAE Investor

Also this...

Article (29)
There shall not be included in any Reservation Deed or a contract for Sale between a
Developer and an Intending Investor any of the following conditions:
1. A right for the Developer to delay the completion of the Project or any part for a
period which exceeds eight months.
2. any conditions in violation to the applicable laws and regulations.

http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/Upload/...TION OF THE REAL ESTATE INVESTOR IN DUBAI.pdf


----------



## UAE Investor

Bank accounts for Dubai owner associations from September...

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...pocket+offers+'instant+love'&utm_medium=email


----------



## surya_mahesh

*Eden Gardens investment sufferer*

Has anyone got a clue about the alternative arrangement Lokhandwala have been talking about for 3 months already. Every week I am calling them and asking the status. They have been saying that Motor City option is there, they will contact you any time by email, then you have reply to that etc etc. I just cannot understand why there is no clarity? why they cannot share contacts of the developer in Motor City? Is this option really worth while? if we are not interested, do we have alternative options? can we say no to it and get back the money we have paid? endless questions with lots of frustration and with no answers. 
Appreciate any relevant reply.



edens said:


> i read on 3rd party website.www.gowealthy.com and also i asked Lokhandwala they says its temporarily cancelled soon as we read and have funds we can start and RERA site will be updated then, also they said an other developer should contact us shortly about alternative apartment in motor city, what is the process to approach RERA


----------



## kamleshbhatia

Got a letter by courier from Abyaar informing the completion of the 22 Townhouses and they also enclosed copy of the completion certificate from the Master developer (TECOM).
DEWA is in the final stages of providing electricity.


----------



## Arthur14

It is a very difficult for a small investor who want to invest in real estate business because some big parties are buy the main places and also want to buy the whole famous places.


----------



## BilboBaggines

Thanks for the updates Krazy.

Everything has gone quiet from Schon. The alarming thing is these buildings are only 8 high, and should be getting handed over quickly.


----------



## I Know

*Dh250 million: Dubai’s costliest property ever advertised for sale*



> Dh250 million: Dubai’s costliest property ever advertised for sale
> Palm Jumeirah mansion has private cinema, gymnasium, four majlis, indoor and outdoor swimming pools... besides a lot more
> By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Monday, July 09, 2012





















Full Article here - http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-ever-advertised-for-sale-2012-07-09-1.466371


----------



## kamenoff

I had similar offer from my Developer (Triplanet) to exchange my unit for similar size and floor unit in different projects. The units they offered me were without view which was important for me. Our negotiation broke down and they refused to refund the money. Still considering my options.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I think the main point of the article is the following:

*“The rent hike has been between 9 and 15 per cent depending on the project, size, view and location of the building in Dubai Marina,” *

The rest refers to some example prices, such as the original 6.


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> I think the main point of the article is the following:
> 
> *“The rent hike has been between 9 and 15 per cent depending on the project, size, view and location of the building in Dubai Marina,” *
> 
> The rest refers to some example prices, such as the original 6.


Thats ok but the first sentence of the article: 

"One-bedrooms start at Dh90,000, while two-bedrooms are around Dh140,000"

It means you cant find 1 Br less then 90K and 2 Br less then 140K


----------



## True Blue

The unedited version is this;



> A little more affordable yet popular building in the area is Marina Promenade.
> 
> Here, a one-bedroom starts at Dh90,000 and rent for a two-bedroom is around Dh140,000.


What Dubai Steve did was erase the first part of the paragraph and put a capital O in "one" to make it look like it was the start of the sentence. He is an expert at skewing data, miss quoting articles and generally fixing everything to make it look rosy. Beware, I think he is a big wig in the Select Property propoganda department. :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ All I did was copy the first 4 paragraphs of the story and put a link to the full story for you to all read! I did not change the text content!! Check the link again - this time with your reading glasses on and you will see the subtitle starts "One-bedrooms start at Dh90,000, while two-bedrooms are around Dh140,000". I did not write that. GRRRrrrr!!


----------



## MarkWass

^^ LOL, I think everyone who reads this thread realised long ago that it's best to digest some of TB's comments with a very large pinch of salt :lol:


----------



## jvinvestor

*sunset*



Pleth said:


> Yes thanks, I found it on page 11.
> He got 29 years in prison, one year for each bounched cheque.
> 
> However what we should worry about is that RERA took 90% of the Escrow money even though nothing has been built.
> I was naive and thought an Escrow account was a secure account, but it wasn't.


Pleth

Has there been any progress with thè liquidation are we going to get any money back from rerà. ?

There was some investors trying to build one of the projectz is that still likely?


----------



## Rakeshdxb

Hi Guys, Sorry for the delay in updating this.

The meeting lasted for about an hour. The CEO of RERA, Mr. Marwan started by briefing everyone that they have taken over control of Dubai Star since it was stuck on the 29th floor.

Since then, they have found a contractor and appointed him to carry the building forward. As of today, the 36th slab is in progress. Their main problem is investors not paying their installments. He said he will answer questions but the rules are we are not talking about contractual issues. Coz. we are trying to find solutions. Contract is with ACI and those investors who want to fight on contracts can go to the court. He said that is everybody's individual choice and he cannot decide on what the decision from the court will be.

He was appreciative of those who have paid and understanding of those who have not been able to pay. But he said that now he needs to take a decision. He is meeting 4 groups of 50 investors each and then will decide whether to go ahead with construction or cancel the project. As an example, he said out of the 24 million due in the last stage, only 11 million were collected.

The options available are:

If majority of investors do not want to pay their installments, the only option is to cancel the project. In that case, the project will be handed over to the court to either demolish the structure and sell the land and pay investors their share or sell the existing structure as it is and pay investors their share (which will be very nominal as this is a distress sale).

The second option is if majority of investors are willing to pay, then as per cash flow projections, it is possible to finish the building with the installments available (if everyone pays). If few investors do not pay, in that case there will be no other option than to send them notices and if they still don't pay, cancel their units coz. out of 600 investors, if 400 agree to pay, then the project cannot be jeapordised by the remaining 200.

He said that he has been approached by new investors waiting to fund the project but that cannot be done unless the existing investor's units are cancelled and cancellation process cannot start untill the building reaches 40th floor. He said, everyone should pay all their dues (except the amount due on completion) by the 40th floor or else, unfortunately, RERA will have to do something.

He said, he is also looking at an option to fund the remaining project by increasing the number of floors and the new buyer will then fund the project to completion. 

And then came another surprise. He said if we are to go ahead then the contractors need funds during completion stage as well. So he suggested that the final 20% which is due on handover should be split into 5, 5, 5 and 5% which will be linked to construction as well. 

But he said that this is a decision not to be taken by RERA but by all of us as investors.

The investors said that they will make the payments if they get a guarantee in writing by RERA that the project will be completed.

Mr. Marwan says, he will give the guarantee IF all investors give guarantee to pay.

Few of the attendees had done a lot of investigation on the project site and were very appreciative of the way RERA is handling the project and there is hope that the project will be completed.

Majority of us were willing to pay and wanted Mr. Marwan to continue the project.

Now a committee of investors will meet regularly, check progress and handle project on behalf of all of us. 

From this group, 4 or 5 investors agreed to be part of the committee. They will meet Mr. Marwan in his office on Sunday at 12 Noon.

I have the contact details of 2 people in that proposed committee. I will contact them again on Sunday afternoon and check the status and update everyone here again.

Overall, I think there is a lot of hope that the building will be completed as soon as possible. The people who agreed to be in the committee looked very interested in taking the project to completion.

After meeting all groups and committees, everyone will get communication from RERA on the proposed plan ahead.

If any specific questions, please ask.


----------



## MarkWass

Talking of pinches of salt, the same applies to most of the journalists articles too...


----------



## Miss Laneous

Better news than nothing as far as townhouses, but let's get real: There is no way anyone who bought from Abyaar in this development is going to recoup their investment any time this century. What happened to all the services that were advertised ? The other buildings, let alone what makes up a community.. The spa, the security, the compound ? Abyaar is a public company in Kuwait, still declaring profits, while continually shifting their Dubai office address (I wonder why?). On the good news side, I know investors who have so far made good progress through the courts. Now that Abyaar has developed the TH they will have some cash with which to settle cases .


----------



## I Know

*Dubai's bustle and beauty captured in time-lapse look at city*

Colin Simpson
Jul 14, 2012








DUBAI //A British photographer whose time-lapse films have attracted thousands of hits online has released a new work that aims to capture Dubai's restless, bustling nature.

Full article - http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/dubais-bustle-and-beauty-captured-in-time-lapse-look-at-city

Video - http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/video-dubai-in-20-000-photographs


----------



## OmarPERU

^^ Desert diver???

well, in any case... amazing!


----------



## building1

Miss Laneous said:


> Better news than nothing as far as townhouses, but let's get real: There is no way anyone who bought from Abyaar in this development is going to recoup their investment any time this century. What happened to all the services that were advertised ? The other buildings, let alone what makes up a community.. The spa, the security, the compound ? Abyaar is a public company in Kuwait, still declaring profits, while continually shifting their Dubai office address (I wonder why?). On the good news side, I know investors who have so far made good progress through the courts. Now that Abyaar has developed the TH they will have some cash with which to settle cases .


I tried to contact them but I was not successful. Can you help me with address/ phone number/ contact person please.

Also, can you be a bit more specific with court cases please. What is the court case about ? What is the outcome ?


----------



## W40arx

Rakesh, thank you for a very detailed account/minutes of this meeting. I think we need to establish how many investors there are and how many of those investors actually are known to this blog and then we can do our own account of numbers I.e. who is willing or not willing to continue with their contributions towards the project!

*********To confirm for the 4th odd time, I WILL be continuing to pay for my investment********

Kind regards,

Waqar


----------



## cayman1

For other Aci project in bus bay are there possibility they go ahead ?


----------



## bister

*RERA - The New Nakheel*

Isn't it just wonderful to see a regulatory body acting as a real estate developer and getting it as wrong as the likes of Nakheel! 

RERA claim to have 'new investors waiting', however the new money can supposedly only step in once it has been established who of the existing investors defaults (on their contracts entered into with bankrupt ACI (!) and based on yesteryear pricing and conditions). It is clear that RERA will cancel Dubai Star defaulters and leave them with no other option than to go to Court and sue ACI (or RERA) or just say bye bye to the funds. Talk about a rock and a hard place.

The Dubai Star investors that decides to play along with RERA and the new money can then hope that this new investor will finish the project, however it would be interesting to know under what conditions the new investor is coming in? What valuation is applicable and how does it compare with the original investors? Clearly those conditions must be dictated by the remaining investors (the original owners) and not RERA? And what does RERA get out of this highly unorthodox approach to 'salvaging' the project? 

If the minutes of this meeting is true I can only conclude that RERA's attempts to 'broker' deals will fail miserably as it using shady bullying tactics on investors so profoundly wronged in the first place. Those wronged investors should be the primary concern rather than brokering a deal that will leave all existing investors (liquid or broke) with the short end of the stick.





Rakeshdxb said:


> Hi Guys, Sorry for the delay in updating this.
> 
> The meeting lasted for about an hour. The CEO of RERA, Mr. Marwan started by briefing everyone that they have taken over control of Dubai Star since it was stuck on the 29th floor.
> 
> Since then, they have found a contractor and appointed him to carry the building forward. As of today, the 36th slab is in progress. Their main problem is investors not paying their installments. He said he will answer questions but the rules are we are not talking about contractual issues. Coz. we are trying to find solutions. Contract is with ACI and those investors who want to fight on contracts can go to the court. He said that is everybody's individual choice and he cannot decide on what the decision from the court will be.
> 
> He was appreciative of those who have paid and understanding of those who have not been able to pay. But he said that now he needs to take a decision. He is meeting 4 groups of 50 investors each and then will decide whether to go ahead with construction or cancel the project. As an example, he said out of the 24 million due in the last stage, only 11 million were collected.
> 
> The options available are:
> 
> If majority of investors do not want to pay their installments, the only option is to cancel the project. In that case, the project will be handed over to the court to either demolish the structure and sell the land and pay investors their share or sell the existing structure as it is and pay investors their share (which will be very nominal as this is a distress sale).
> 
> The second option is if majority of investors are willing to pay, then as per cash flow projections, it is possible to finish the building with the installments available (if everyone pays). If few investors do not pay, in that case there will be no other option than to send them notices and if they still don't pay, cancel their units coz. out of 600 investors, if 400 agree to pay, then the project cannot be jeapordised by the remaining 200.
> 
> He said that he has been approached by new investors waiting to fund the project but that cannot be done unless the existing investor's units are cancelled and cancellation process cannot start untill the building reaches 40th floor. He said, everyone should pay all their dues (except the amount due on completion) by the 40th floor or else, unfortunately, RERA will have to do something.
> 
> He said, he is also looking at an option to fund the remaining project by increasing the number of floors and the new buyer will then fund the project to completion.
> 
> And then came another surprise. He said if we are to go ahead then the contractors need funds during completion stage as well. So he suggested that the final 20% which is due on handover should be split into 5, 5, 5 and 5% which will be linked to construction as well.
> 
> But he said that this is a decision not to be taken by RERA but by all of us as investors.
> 
> The investors said that they will make the payments if they get a guarantee in writing by RERA that the project will be completed.
> 
> Mr. Marwan says, he will give the guarantee IF all investors give guarantee to pay.
> 
> Few of the attendees had done a lot of investigation on the project site and were very appreciative of the way RERA is handling the project and there is hope that the project will be completed.
> 
> Majority of us were willing to pay and wanted Mr. Marwan to continue the project.
> 
> Now a committee of investors will meet regularly, check progress and handle project on behalf of all of us.
> 
> From this group, 4 or 5 investors agreed to be part of the committee. They will meet Mr. Marwan in his office on Sunday at 12 Noon.
> 
> I have the contact details of 2 people in that proposed committee. I will contact them again on Sunday afternoon and check the status and update everyone here again.
> 
> Overall, I think there is a lot of hope that the building will be completed as soon as possible. The people who agreed to be in the committee looked very interested in taking the project to completion.
> 
> After meeting all groups and committees, everyone will get communication from RERA on the proposed plan ahead.
> 
> If any specific questions, please ask.


----------



## Miss Laneous

*building1*

I don't know the current address. They used to have one in Souk Bahar, Dubai Mall that I was trying to reason with 2 years ago. I am no longer bothering to have contact with them now. They are liars. The person I am told everyone should deal with is Mr Marzouk, COO, based in Kuwait. They are a public company in Kuwait so you should be able to get a hold ofnthe address there. A lawyer I went to see told me they have won 3 judgements against Abyaar already, on behalf of clients. Challenge now is collection. I am looking at my options. I encourage other disappointed investors to get in touch with their lawyers. It is expensive but I think it will be the only way you will recover your rights, unless you're prepad to wait for years and just accept whatever they give you and however long they take.


----------



## cayman1

Anybody knows about other fucked Aci project in bus bay. ? thx


----------



## kingking

palisades new number : 043366661
every one should call and complains


----------



## Miss Laneous

building1 said:


> I tried to contact them but I was not successful. Can you help me with address/ phone number/ contact person please.
> 
> Also, can you be a bit more specific with court cases please. What is the court case about ? What is the outcome ?


The court case is about Abyaar being 2-3 years late minimum to deliver the properties, for no good reason. Other developers, like Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Properties that have had delays have all now offered investors either money back or credit notes. Abyaar can't offer credit notes because they have nothing worth credit :bash:


----------



## kamleshbhatia

The 22 townhouses now have electricity. The contractor is checking each T/H, to make sure its working ok. Water is expected to be connected next week.


----------



## Spurs

Can anyone recommend a lawyer and perhaps give me an idea of the costs involved??


----------



## agod

UAE Investor said:


> Hamptons (owned by EMAR Dubai goverment )
> 
> Imre sol.... who is on here,is very reputable as well imo...


I can also reccommend Imre, works hard and gets results...............I think you will find that Emaar sold Hamptons Years ago.

A.


----------



## Jodel

Spurs said:


> This is correct, In affect you are locked into paying this if you live in JBR


In your original post you mentioned that you purchased in Dec 2011 after you did "due diligence" on the property. 
During this you will have discovered that Amwaj 4 is a "privately owned" tower and not part of JBR. Of the 36 original towers in 6 sectors only 25 come under JOPD. The others are hotels or single (not Jointly) owned towers.
Murjan 4 is the same and also some of the buildings in Shams sector.

This may be why the "Empower deal" that Dalip knows about is different to the rest of JBR 3 bed apartments.
Send a pm if you think I can give any info.

Regards Jo.


----------



## Imre

Thanks for the comments Agod , Mackie and UAE Investor


----------



## Jodel

Hi Spurs

You have mail.

Regards
Jo


----------



## Prodigy11UK

Some good news for you guys below! 
PM me if you want the Project Engineer's mobile number or call Concordia.

Dear Icon 1 & Icon 2 representatives,
Kindly be advised that the contractor of Dubai Star tower is planning to pour the concrete for the 37th floor slab on Monday 30th July at 3:00pm until 7:00am of the following day’s morning (all night activity only once) but the contractor will try to finish earlier.
The Contractor will ensure that noise will be controlled within acceptable range and that the site arrangements don’t disturb the residents.
Kindly inform your respective tower residents to avoid any inconveniences and please do not hesitate to contact the Project Engineer Mr. Samah on xxxxxxxx / the Safety Advisor Mr. Yaseen on xxxxxxxx or alternatively Concordia’s Service Desk on (04) 36 8888 3 should you have any concerns.


----------



## mustafa1974

Dear All

Have anyone received his title deeds from Nakheel?

Are you aware of the new rule from DEWA:

It is now mandatory for all landlords to have the Title Deed of their properties issued from the Dubai Land Department in order for DEWA to register any new accounts under a tenant¹s name. 

DEWA will therefore reject registering any account for any property that does not have a copy of its Title Deed. As a result, we advise all landlords who have yet to apply for their Title Deeds to proceed at the earliest. Please also note that the Title Deed is also essential in order for any landlord to generate an EJARI contract for their property, keeping in mind that EJARI contracts are also compulsory by the Real Estate Law in Dubai.


----------



## W40arx

Thanks for the update
Regards
Waqar


----------



## Rakeshdxb

Hi JShaikh

I'm not part of the working committee either. RERA is not really concerned with our problems with banks. Even I have a mortgage loan.

If your bank doesn't pay the installment, you will be treated as defaulter. 

It is a sad situation but thats the way it is. I know, we have paid huge amount as interest already on the loan but similarly those people who paid their own funds also have a cost to those funds which they have lost.


----------



## spindrifter

in order to verify if there is money in the account the arbitration ruling has to be enforced through the court. Only once the courts have vetted the arbitration will the holder of the escrow reveal whats in (or left) the account.

As I said before I'll update once this process is complete


----------



## I Know

> Dubai landlords may have to be transparent over paid service fees


http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-...have-to-be-transparent-over-paid-service-fees


----------



## UAE Investor

agod said:


> I can also reccommend Imre, works hard and gets results...............I think you will find that Emaar sold Hamptons Years ago.
> 
> A.


Sorry al .. http://www.hamptons.ae/en-ae/About-Us/Hamptons-History/

:cheers:


----------



## agod

Sorry my Friend you need to keep up to date.............

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...untrywide-for-116-million-incurring-loss.html


----------



## UAE Investor

agod said:


> Sorry my Friend you need to keep up to date.............
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...untrywide-for-116-million-incurring-loss.html


Al, Hamptons operations in the middle east are still run by Emaar..

Emaar Properties PJSC, the developer of the world’s tallest tower in Dubai, incurred a loss of 38.5 million dirhams ($10 million) from the sale of Hamptons Group Ltd.’s operations in Europe, U.K. and Asia to Countrywide Plc.
Dubai’s largest developer sold the unit with effect from June 1 for 428.1 million dirhams after acquiring Hamptons in August 2006, the company said in a statement. Emaar retains the right to operate Hamptons’ business, a property broker and real- estate services consultant, in the Middle East and North Africa.

You are right tho..sort of


----------



## agod

They dont own it anymore, just run the Operation.

It doesnt matter whos right and who's wrong, I dont want to get into a fight over it.

A.


----------



## I Know

*End of 'fake' property adverts *



> Real estate experts believe the move will reduce the number of “ghost” listings, common in the UAE, and, more possibly, the agency being able to limit listing of one property with not more than three agencies.
> As per a Rera regulation, a seller can list his property with only three brokerage firms.
> 
> Unfortunately, sellers here try to list their property with numerous brokerage firms and at varying prices.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-rera-launches-simsari-ae-2012-07-29-1.469118


----------



## I Know

> Homebuyers bang heads against walls over double registry
> 
> Developers in Dubai are continuing to maintain their own property registries despite the emirate's official registry being run by the Dubai Land Department (DLD).


http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...bang-heads-against-walls-over-double-registry


----------



## Bradpole

*Be philosophical*

First my thanks to Wissam 11 for the photos. These are great for people like me who only sets foot in Dubai once or twice a year.

The sale price of any flat is going to be grim for many years. The same applies to the potential rent. Just be happy that DEC is still trading and building.

It's not just in Dubai, this is a Western world depression. We will have (hopefully) a real flat which is saleable and rentable (even if at lower prices than we had hoped).

There are lots of people who will envy us.


----------



## VR6

thanks for that, Spindrifter. Do you know the name under which the account is held in Mashreq?


----------



## Jshaikh

Hi Rakesh,
I have seen the cases where the developers have paid the interest part to the banks due to the delay in construction at there end. If ACI is not paying any attention and RERA seems to be taken over then it is the responsibility of RERA to sort this out. In our case it is not the small figure. The inetrest has gone to more then 60% of the original sale price. If the Mortage customers will surrender without any voice then nothing is going to happen.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

Imre said:


> Luke Oil
> 
> What a rubbish, more companies doing the same business now, just wondering why the RERA /Dubai Police allowed this ?
> 
> They are offering high rentals without any knowledge and viewings..


It always end bad for bad people as in bad karma. They will eventually get caught. I forwarded the correspondence to RERA - after enough mails from various people I hope they will react


----------



## beer51

Hi

Has anyone tried registering their rental contract online on the ejari system, is it difficult as it used to be.

thanks


----------



## Imre

beer51 said:


> Hi
> 
> Has anyone tried registering their rental contract online on the ejari system, is it difficult as it used to be.
> 
> thanks


Its getting complicated , 2 Ejari at the moment 

The old still the same , online system but before you need a training ( 500 AED) then you will have an access to the system or you can do it through property management companies or owners representative also can do it.. I think its still 160 AED.


The new Ejari for tenants , actually its just an attestation of the tenancy contract for new visas or visa renewal , its easier you need title deed or affection plan,DEWA or other utility bill and tenancy contract and cost around 195 AED, if I remember right.Youi need to visit the Land Department for it.


The rules changing weekly now , its really hard to follow..DEWA is the same , you will never know what kind of documents/details will they ask when you visit them  Just like a lottery ..


----------



## DennyCrane

building1 said:


> very fast progress


So it must be non DCE based construction......:nuts:


----------



## beer51

Thanks Imre. 

Is there a time limit to when the tenancy contract has to be registered on the ejari system. Common sense tells me within 1 month of signing the tenancy contract but this is Dubai.


----------



## building1

'DCE' ?


----------



## True Blue

CRC


----------



## DennyCrane

building1 said:


> 'DCE' ?


yes DCE the slowest construction company in Dubai!


----------



## I Know

> Nakheel said to sell Palm plot for $109m
> 
> 
> Dubai developer Nakheel said on Sunday it had sold a plot of land on Palm Jumeirah for AED400m ($109m).
> 
> The 305,704 sq ft plot was bought by a local investor the company didn’t identify, Bloomberg reported.
> 
> Nakheel said the sale showed there were "clear signs of renewed investor confidence in Dubai real estate and in particular for unique products such as those offered on Palm Jumeirah".


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/nakheel-said-sell-palm-plot-for-109m-469522.html


----------



## shah100

*Regal Row Town Houses The Royal estate*

Dear Sir

I have checked the SPA on page 18 there is clause put in by the developer that If the project is not complete by DEC 2011, Purchaser can cancel the SPA by giving a written notice to the developer and developer should return all the money paid by purchaser with the condition that purchaser has fulfilled all his obligation.

Please give me your views.

Regards,

Shah


----------



## shah100

Regal Row Town Houses The Royal estate

Once written notice issued to the developer within 60 days he should refund all the money paid by the purchaser. Please read page 18 of your SPA.

Regards


----------



## Opus 2009

beer51 said:


> Hi
> 
> Has anyone tried registering their rental contract online on the ejari system, is it difficult as it used to be.
> 
> thanks


^^
Pretty complicated - it all needs to be translated in Arabic!


----------



## FromWarsaw

^^

Damn, I thought they were working on the 16th floor, but it turns out they are still f...ing around on the lower floors!

It will take them ages to finish this one man...

I feel sorry for everyone who invested there, including myself...:bash:


----------



## I Know

> *Dubai Brit sees 12-year jail term for swindle cut*
> 
> A British executive who was found guilty of embezzling AED2.4m (US$653,400) from a Dubai World subsidiary has seen his 12-year jail sentence reduced by half by a Dubai appeal court.
> 
> Michael Bryan Smith was originally given a ten-year prison sentence for abusing a public office and an additional two years for forging salary transfers and using forged graduate and post-graduate degrees.
> 
> Smith, who worked at property developer Limitless from January 2007 to June 2008, argued that Limitless was not a public company when he started his employment and asked for the charges stating he abused public office to be dropped.
> 
> In its verdict on Sunday, the Dubai Appeal Court reduced Smith’s sentence by half, but stated he would still be required to repay the AED2.4m he was accused of embezzling.


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-brit-sees-12-year-jail-term-for-swindle-cut-469668.html


----------



## s.y

Remember, this is a never ending project you have to accept it. The new people just wanted to get more money!!!!!! and none of us can do anything. Investing in a country which no one knows the meaning of people's right. They only understand the language of money and ripping off others


----------



## VR6

i would imagine that they would say that we did not fulfil our obligation as payments for the project were stopped as soon as we found out nothing was happening.
In any case, how would you enforce this?


----------



## Jshaikh

Guys,
Pls check the below article from the GULF NEWS today
http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/new-law-allows-investors-to-void-contracts-1.1030320

Dubai: Real estate investors will be given the right to annul their contracts and get all their money back if developers violate the terms and condition, according to the latest draft of Real Estate Investor Protection Law.

Besides getting their funds back, investors will be able to ask for additional compensation, while the developer can be fined, said the director of the Dubai Land Department, Sultan Butti Bin Mujren told Gulf News.

The law, which has been in the works for some time is expected to be issued soon by the department. It is aimed at protecting investors from delays in the handing over of projects or unilateral changes in the size or other specifications of the properties.

Investors can cancel the contract if the property handover is delayed for more than a year. This applies even if there is provision for completion delays in the contract. They will be eligible for compensation if the handover is delayed for more than a month, but less than a year, according to the draft.


----------



## shah100

*Regal Row Town Houses*

Dear Sir

How we have stopped payment? According to SPA 15% I paid by signing contract and I paid 15% in Jan 2009 according to SPA. Rest was 70% due at the handover. So I paid 30% . I am not behind instalment.

Please clarify how developer can say we have stopped payment when I paid according to what I have signed and what sale purchase agreement say. Did you signed different payment plan ? Please let me know.

Regards,
Shah


----------



## Berliner01

This law was supposed to be in force since June. Soon can mean anything from a month to three years up to never.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Has anyone written and received a response re below?


http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/English/Investor_law.aspx

Skip Navigation Links >Home >Draft law on the Protection of the Real Estate Investor 

Request for Feedback 

Draft law on the Protection of the Real Estate Investor

The Dubai Land Department is keen to provide the best services to its dear customers. We call on those involved and concerned with real estate investment in Dubai to review the draft law on the protection of the real estate investor available at the following link

(Draft law on the Protection of the Real Estate Investor)

Kindly note that the law covers the following phases:

1. Real estate project development
2. Property purchase
3. Completion and delivery
4. Usage by the investor

Participation time is over


----------



## Sam Russell

mashraf42 said:


> I thought at this rate they may be finished by the middle of next year. My contract says they should be finished second quarter of 2014. Hopefully that is not being too optimistic.


the middle of next year is Q2 2013 not 2014..dont get your hopes up too high


----------



## sgn7200

*DEC NEW CONTACT DETAILS*



RP2 said:


> Hi! I have 2 apartments in lawns iii and am not sure if the project has been shelved. I too was offered to swap but i didnt go ahead as they were not bringing the price down to the current market rate, nor were they ready to wait for the completion to collect the balance payment.
> Today when i called their office to my horror and shock i was informed the number no longer exists. Am open to some support and advise. Please help!


*They have moved to a new address and their contact details are as follows:-*

Dheeraj & East Coast LLC

1st Floor , Indigo Towers,

Sheikh Zayed Road, Between 2nd & 3rd Interchange,

Near Noor Islamic Bank Metro Station.

Dubai.

Phone No: +9714 3791630

Fax No: +9714 3791631

Postal Address:-

Dheeraj & East Coast LLC,

P.O. Box no:- 333876

Dubai, UAE .


----------



## RP2

*Thank you!*

Grateful to burntfingers and sgn7200 for their update.



sgn7200 said:


> *They have moved to a new address and their contact details are as follows:-*
> 
> Dheeraj & East Coast LLC
> 
> 1st Floor , Indigo Towers,
> 
> Sheikh Zayed Road, Between 2nd & 3rd Interchange,
> 
> Near Noor Islamic Bank Metro Station.
> 
> Dubai.
> 
> Phone No: +9714 3791630
> 
> Fax No: +9714 3791631
> 
> Postal Address:-
> 
> Dheeraj & East Coast LLC,
> 
> P.O. Box no:- 333876
> 
> Dubai, UAE .


----------



## I Know

Dont think it is done yet



building1 said:


> What is the news on chiller ? Is it connected now ? Does anybody has some news ?


----------



## MMDXB

I send today DEC an email and asking to start refund process on Lawns 2. Further RERA informed me that the project Lawns 2 is already handover to Dubai Court and they gave me a contact address.

That person informed they creating a committee which will start in October with clearing with the stalled projects. I'm awaiting further info.

Further I asked my Bank to reduce the mortgage interest rate since project is canceled. Someone did the same and can advise what to expect ?


----------



## wissam11

Is anyone interested in transferring from a cancelled lawns project to one in lawns 5 or lawns 4. I would be interested to sell my apartment in lawns 5.


----------



## leo301

*Are you a Chapal World Investor? Join an Action Group.*

Have you invested in any of the Chapal World Properties in either Ajman or Dubai? These are: Chapal The Presidency, Chapal The Harmony, Chapal The Glory, Chapal The Legacy, Chapal Corals, Chapal Dunes, Chapal Signature, Chapal Tropicals, Chapal Flora Residences, Emirates Lake Towers and Chapal Emirates Points.

I am looking to identify as many Chapal Word investors as possible with a view to setting up an Action Group to try and get the Government to take notice and some action with a view to recovering investor’s hard earned money. Options will also include group court action and/or supporting and informing those who are going down this route alone. I am a Chapal Investor myself and I am just about to commence court action but even getting to this point has been a journey of discovery and frustration.

The Action Group will also be a means of support and communication for investors. I will consider setting up a website if enough interest but first I need to gauge whether I can identify enough engaged and active Chapal investors to make this worthwhile and effective.

Please email your details to [email protected] providing information on what property you have invested in and how much you have invested. Please provide brief details of any action you have taken and what the outcome was. I may use some of this information in the website if it will help others. Also personal details will be kept strictly confidential.

Also if you are in contact with other Chapal Investors – please pass on this message and ask them to email. You can also support by posting this thread in any other forum/website associated to Chapal.


----------



## leo301

*Are you a Chapal World Investor? Join an Action Group.*

Have you invested in any of the Chapal World Properties in either Ajman or Dubai? These are: Chapal The Presidency, Chapal The Harmony, Chapal The Glory, Chapal The Legacy, Chapal Corals, Chapal Dunes, Chapal Signature, Chapal Tropicals, Chapal Flora Residences, Emirates Lake Towers and Chapal Emirates Points.

I am looking to identify as many Chapal Word investors as possible with a view to setting up an Action Group to try and get the Government to take notice and some action with a view to recovering investor’s hard earned money. Options will also include group court action and/or supporting and informing those who are going down this route alone. I am a Chapal Investor myself and I am just about to commence court action but even getting to this point has been a journey of discovery and frustration.

The Action Group will also be a means of support and communication for investors. I will consider setting up a website if enough interest but first I need to gauge whether I can identify enough engaged and active Chapal investors to make this worthwhile and effective.

Please email your details to [email protected] providing information on what property you have invested in and how much you have invested. Please provide brief details of any action you have taken and what the outcome was. I may use some of this information in the website if it will help others. Also personal details will be kept strictly confidential.

Also if you are in contact with other Chapal Investors – please pass on this message and ask them to email. You can also support by posting this thread in any other forum/website associated to Chapal.


----------



## FromWarsaw

Never could i have imagined that we would reach page 66 on this thread, unfortunately we have and counting. 

What a regrettable fact it is, ladies and gentlemen!

Being patient is probably the only remedy in our situation. 
Cheers. :cheers:


----------



## unknownpleasures

True Blue said:


> No I don't work for RERA.
> 
> You miss quote me by your statement that I am beginning to wake up. When have I ever changed my view of what happened in the past. Times are changing now certainly but if I were to go back to 2005, I wouldn't do anything different. We all knew the property market in 2005 was unregulated but did anyone care? No, they were blinded by the stories of the 100% profit in a month from all the flippers. No one gave a shit about regulation when there was money being made left right and centre. Now the bubble has burst everyone is bleating about an unregulated market. Not that I am defending Dubai's lack of regulation, I am just making the point we all knew but still jumped in with our life saving. Caveate emptor, unregulated therefore more due dilligence including standing in front of the plot with the glossy brochure in your hand and asking yourself, REALLY???
> 
> If you struggle to see my logic then you are struggling to accept that what I did was right. It worked, my apartments are something like 4 years old now and have returned more than half of the original capital sum invested. My exposure is lessening every year and rents in the properties I chose are also starting to rise again. That suggests that the basic stuff, location, location, etc was done correctly also. This is 2012 now and the market is no longer completely unregulated, there are established laws and as a result, courts with backlogs of claims.
> 
> If you keep quoting me as an example in your argument, then I'm likely to offer my tupence worth if I don't particularly agree with the context. Try and absorb what I am saying for a change instead of discarding it always.


When you say everyone knew that it was unregulated, that isn't the case, perhaps you knew and those who are in the real estate game knew or those in construction as they would know who were the best or not. If it was just one or two bad eggs in the basket it wouldn't matter but this went viral and people lost big time. Something has to be there to support the investors and RERA has done nothing. Others were provided with information how safe it all was and escrow would protect. It's all good to have hindsight but many didn't have any idea, they did do their research and no it wasn't the nicest brochure at all as most purchased something they could afford and being a muslim country who would have thought this rip off existed. Some empathy towards your fellow man would help a little, perhaps they just didn't know everything like you do and still don't. This is the property and investment thread and people should be able to voice their opinions, if you made good then good luck with that and personally I feel good that you did, however others are suffering big time, nothing to do with being flippers, that's not the case. Many are just ordinary people who just wanted that little oasis and felt they were doing well in investing for their future, there's nothing wrong with that or is there in your thinking! Sorry but that's my tuppence worth!


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...flipping-returns-to-dubai-2012-07-08-1.466221

DLD’s off-plan sales advisory as property flipping returns to Dubai
Land Department urges developers to “discourage” investors from re-selling “off plan”

“We don’t have any regulation to prevent people from reselling their property.

“The developer should discourage people from selling off-plan until the project has reached an advanced stage,” the department said in response to a query by Emirates 24|7.

This is why the whole place is getting no where...the lands dept dictating what people should be doing...if people want to sell to someone who is willing to wait then there is no problem, some people cannot wait and off plans should not hold people to ransom. And most would just be very happy to get back what they paid for, that's not being greedy or selling at premium, it's being fair. The Lands Department are not even bothering to contact the investors to ask just the developers...just one-sided opinions. Contact the actual investors they will be more than happy to sell at the price they purchased and let those who wish to buy it at that bargain figure, they can then wait all they want. Off plans must have a different meaning there because no where do they delay for years and get away with it...too many have done this there and it must or should be ringing alarm bells with the lands department/RERA - same thing in my opinion.


----------



## I Know

*Safety, high returns draw Pakistanis to Dubai property*



> Investment in real estate jumps 33% to Dh1.71bn in H1, 2012
> By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Monday, August 20, 2012
> 
> Pakistani investment in Dubai’s property market jumped 33 per cent to Dh1.71 billion in the first half of 2012 compared to Dh1.29 billion same period last year.
> 
> Property agents say Pakistanis are picking up properties in Dubai not only because of the ongoing political crisis back home, but due to the emirate’s safe haven status and a high return on investment.
> 
> The recent Dubai Land Department data shows Pakistanis have purchased 1,814 properties in the first half 2012, registering an increase of 37 per cent compared to the same period last year.



http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...istanis-to-dubai-property-2012-08-20-1.472024


----------



## I Know

*Industrial properties in Dubai strike a chord with investors*

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...dubai-strike-a-chord-with-investors-1.1065021


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://gulfnews.com/business/propert...tors-1.1065021 

^^^^^^ are they finished, nothing off plan is worth looking at IMO, not after the mess created in the past few years.....

I've noticed plots being sold off in DSC....interesting stuff!! - Are the investors benefitting anything out of it or is it being sold under their very noses - the place is nothing but a hole, never started....off plan must have a real different meaning over there, something unheard of in most places...You buy to enjoy not wait years and have a fight on your hands wondering where the money has disappeared. There is no customer service from what I can understand, they drop those who paid like hot potatoes.

If they want commercial why not turn DSC into that and buy all they want, enough land there and make good to all who purchased, a win/win situation and a better name for Dubai in the long run...


----------



## FWIW

*Need Ejari Advice!*

Are there any Ejari experts out there?

I am told by Better Homes that I MUST have the Title Deed before they are able to get a tanant and update the Ejari system. The problem is I am on the Select Lengthy Payment Plan and will not get my TD until I fully pay up which will be in 12 years time!

How have other Select LPP investors got their tenants registered into Ejari?

Thanks!


----------



## Wac

MMDXB said:


> I send today DEC an email and asking to start refund process on Lawns 2. Further RERA informed me that the project Lawns 2 is already handover to Dubai Court and they gave me a contact address.
> 
> That person informed they creating a committee which will start in October with clearing with the stalled projects. I'm awaiting further info.
> 
> Further I asked my Bank to reduce the mortgage interest rate since project is canceled. Someone did the same and can advise what to expect ?


MMDXB thanks for sharing this news. I have one apartment in Lawns 2. Please keep us informed regarding the court ruling etc as like me, many others may not be residing in the UAE now-a-days.


----------



## I Know

^^ Your first point of call should be to speak to select and see what they may have done for others in the same situation.

Maybe an agreement to show your LPP may be required to satisfy Ejari registration.

Also the oqood registration in your name may suffice.

Hope it helps


----------



## I Know

*Indian and Pakistan Investors Target Dubai Properties*

Posted by Alex Finkelstein 08/23/12 8:00 AM EST



> Real estate investors from India and Pakistan like what they see in Dubai these days. Indian investors bought a total 2,153 properties valued at $1 billion U.S. (Rs 5,670 crore; 3.751 billion dirhams) in the first half of this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistanis bought a total 1,814 properties valued at $466 million U.S. (Rs 4,400 crore; 1.713 billion dirhams). One Moroccan dirham equals 0.111733 U.S. dollars
> 
> Indians have retained the number one spot since foreign ownership regulations were applied, a new research has revealed.



http://www.worldpropertychannel.com...nvestors-pakistan-property-investors-5991.php


----------



## oslo

As a property owner, we have used xxx as management company. We have a very difficult time getting them to pay us for the use of our property. We finally terminated the contract with xxx this summer, after we found they charged the clients more than stated to us as property owners, and kept the difference to themselves (5000 AED monthly) in addition to management fee. All other expenses is paid by us. The total amount of what they own us is AED 25.000. xxx is not objecting the amount, but they are just not paying.

We will be thankful for advice on how and where to get help to proceed this matter further.


----------



## True Blue

^^Have you tried speaking to the Police? Surely this is fraud in its basic form. They are stealing money that belongs to you as the property owner. If you have hard evidence then I would have a chat with the police and see what they say. XXX may suddenly decide it is better to pay up after they have had a visit from the Police.


----------



## I Know

*Dubai online registration: Tenants to pay landlords' fee*



> Dubai has made it mandatory to register all lease contracts – residential or commercial - on Ejari, the e-registration portal. But the question is, who pays the Dh190 fee — landlord or tenant?
> 
> The Dubai Land Department says it is the landlord who has to pay to register the tenancy contract, but if the landlord does not pay then the tenant will have to bear the registration charges.
> 
> Priya Sane, who has rented a one-bed apartment in Jumeirah Lakes Towers, says: “My agent told me that I have to pay for Ejari registration and that was the end.
> 
> "I had to go the typing centre and get a registered contract. My agent did not do anything except taking a commission.”


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...ants-to-pay-landlords-fee-2012-08-22-1.472154


----------



## FWIW

^^Thanks for this article and earlier response I Know. Yes I have my OQOOD and will try and get Better Homes to use that.


----------



## dubinv

I try to register my appartment with Ejari website but they ask the residence visa !!!! I don't live in Dubai, so how is it possible to do? We can be landlord and not to live in Dubai :bash:


----------



## nas001

dubinv said:


> I try to register my appartment with Ejari website but they ask the residence visa !!!! I don't live in Dubai, so how is it possible to do? We can be landlord and not to live in Dubai :bash:


I am in same situation? Can anyone provide any answers?

^^^^^^


----------



## jeetha

The whole Ejari thing is a complete shamble.:bash:


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/English/eServices/ProjectIndicatorEN.aspx

^^^^^ Can anyone find OASIS TOWER 2 on this site above, the developer ID is 311 - have put in Oasis Tower 2, Oasis 2, Oasis Tower Two, and it comes up with "No Record Found"... Does anyone know what the right combination is to locate an update.


----------



## I Know

*Tameer delivers 696 apartments in Dubai*


> Real estate developer Tameer said on Saturday that it had delivered its second residential tower in Dubai Marina.
> 
> 
> 
> It said the Elite Residence, a 91-storey structure which stands at a height of 381m, was the world's third tallest residential building and among the world's top 20 tallest of all kinds.
> 
> Elite Residence is located close to Tameer's other landmark project Princess Tower.
> 
> Federico Tauber, president of Tameer, said: "The completion of Elite Residence is yet another affirmation of Tameer's capability to build and deliver iconic projects.


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/tameer-delivers-696-apartments-in-dubai-470828.html


----------



## T-800

*Lawns 2 investor*

Hey everyone, just a quick intro, I too have been a customer of DEC since 2007 and opted to purchase a couple of properties with them at the Lawns 2 project. Unfortunately as you know it's a hole in the ground 5 years on.

I've been following the thread and appreciate everyone's feedback and willingness to share information.

Personally I have given this issue some time since the industry has been suffering and even the authorities have not been sure how to handle all of this however DEC have opted to stick their heads in the ground and ignore us.

I tried repeatedly to meet/call/email for updates but they played their usual game.

I consulted a lawyer who from his experience dealing with such cases felt I had a very strong case however the fees are pretty high.

Seems now that RERA have cancelled the project so hopefully we will get some of the investment back. 

The neighborhood which the Lawns buildings are located in is not bad, it just needs a number of years before it takes shape and with Nakheel still limping to recovery it could take a while before infrastructure shapes up over there.

However DEC has tried to play games and instead of making it easy for investors to transfer into a building under development they just want more money.

I've lost all confidence in them for sure. Will wait and see how the authorities will resolve this one.

Looking forward to hearing any updates you have.


----------



## T-800

MMDXB said:


> I send today DEC an email and asking to start refund process on Lawns 2. Further RERA informed me that the project Lawns 2 is already handover to Dubai Court and they gave me a contact address.
> 
> That person informed they creating a committee which will start in October with clearing with the stalled projects. I'm awaiting further info.
> 
> Further I asked my Bank to reduce the mortgage interest rate since project is canceled. Someone did the same and can advise what to expect ?


Thanks for sharing this. I'm impressed that DEC admitted this. Can you please share the contact address?

According to someone at DEC they claim Lawns 2 has had many defaulters so I wonder if this is how they are positioning it with RERA. Let's hope Dubai Courts are fair and award investors that continued to pay their money back.


Which bank is your mortgage with? Have they agreed to lower the rate?


----------



## kingking

palisades new number : 043366661
every one should call and complains:bash::bash::bash:


----------



## Chipmunk

Imre said:


> Luke Oil
> 
> What a rubbish, more companies doing the same business now, just wondering why the RERA /Dubai Police allowed this ?
> 
> They are offering high rentals without any knowledge and viewings..


They won't react. If you remember, I became one of the many victims of this scam. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of victims out there and RERA, Dubai Police, the courts didn't care. The company I dealt with packed up and ran away but the sister companies they have out there are all still operating despite us bringing them to RERA's attention.


----------



## Chipmunk

I Know said:


> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...ants-to-pay-landlords-fee-2012-08-22-1.472154


This is so silly. There shouldn't be a law or any rules on who pays the Ejari fee. 
I'm a landlord myself and charge the tenant but we discussed who pays what during the contract negotiations. Can't people the landlords and tenants just decide these things between themselves during the negotiation of the rent?


----------



## Chipmunk

dubinv said:


> I try to register my appartment with Ejari website but they ask the residence visa !!!! I don't live in Dubai, so how is it possible to do? We can be landlord and not to live in Dubai :bash:


I've registered with Ejari and I've used it a few times now to register my tenancy contracts. Yeah, this residence visa thing is stupid. Can't you just write in some random numbers like 000000000? I don't think the Ejari registration is linked to any government systems so they won't actually check any of your details, nor did they ever ask me to show them a copy of my residence visa at any stage, so I guess those questions on the registration form are just a formality. Besides, they'll never put your residence visa information on the Ejari contract so you won't need to worry about the contract showing incorrect information.


----------



## dxbshame

*Gangsters*



kingking said:


> palisades new number : 043366661
> every one should call and complains:bash::bash::bash:


You must be jocking! They would care less. This is a "fascist state". We can only destroy their reputation. :runaway:They are just a bunch a cowards gangsters who better avoid coming to Europe.


----------



## Imre

Chipmunk said:


> They won't react. If you remember, I became one of the many victims of this scam. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of victims out there and RERA, Dubai Police, the courts didn't care. The company I dealt with packed up and ran away but the sister companies they have out there are all still operating despite us bringing them to RERA's attention.


I know its really bad, some new companies also on the market so better to be carefoul and avoid any subleasing.


----------



## I Know

Dubai property valuations drop 26% in H1



> The total value of properties requested for valuation in Dubai during the first half of 2012 fell by over a quarter, the official government agency responsible for appraisals reported.



http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-property-valuations-drop-26-in-h1-470662.html?tab=Article


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/English/...dicatorEN.aspx

^ ^^^^ Can anyone find OASIS TOWER 2 on this site above, the developer ID is 311 - have put in Oasis Tower 2, Oasis 2, Oasis Tower Two, and it comes up with "No Record Found"... Does anyone know what the right combination is to locate an update.


----------



## Mistermark

oslo said:


> As a property owner, we have used xxx as management company. We have a very difficult time getting them to pay us for the use of our property. We finally terminated the contract with xxx this summer, after we found they charged the clients more than stated to us as property owners, and kept the difference to themselves (5000 AED monthly) in addition to management fee. All other expenses is paid by us. The total amount of what they own us is AED 25.000. xxx is not objecting the amount, but they are just not paying.
> 
> We will be thankful for advice on how and where to get help to proceed this matter further.


This is Dubai. Either hire a couple of big guys to go round there and invite the owner of the management company to joint them for a trip into the desert, or chalk it up to experience.


----------



## Imre

*Dh2 million sub-letting fraudster to be deported*

*Accused leased flat and then sub-let it by forging ownership certificates*

By Eman Al Baik Published Monday, August 27, 2012 

An unsuspecting tenant who rented out a flat in Dubai after footing commissions and paying the rent was shocked to receive an evacuation order within two months.

The real owner of the apartment alleged in court that the accused had defrauded up to Dh2 million by sub-letting apartment that he had leased out.

The incident came to light when the real estate swindler, who posed as the owner of the property using forged documents and a fake name had advertisied about the vacant flat on the Net.

And an elderly Jordanian teacher, who was looking for an apartment for his son, quickly fell prey to his antics.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-fraudster-to-be-deported-2012-08-27-1.472874


----------



## I Know

^^ Good riddence to bad rubbish

Cleaning the place up, one by one


----------



## True Blue

Imre said:


> *Dh2 million sub-letting fraudster to be deported*
> 
> *Accused leased flat and then sub-let it by forging ownership certificates*
> 
> By Eman Al Baik Published Monday, August 27, 2012
> 
> An unsuspecting tenant who rented out a flat in Dubai after footing commissions and paying the rent was shocked to receive an evacuation order within two months.
> 
> The real owner of the apartment alleged in court that the accused had defrauded up to Dh2 million by sub-letting apartment that he had leased out.
> 
> The incident came to light when the real estate swindler, *who posed as the owner of the property using forged documents* and a fake name had advertisied about the vacant flat on the Net.
> 
> And an elderly Jordanian teacher, who was looking for an apartment for his son, quickly fell prey to his antics.
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-fraudster-to-be-deported-2012-08-27-1.472874


Absolute certainty to happen! That is what I predicted and it is all the fault of the authorities insisting that copies of title deeds, passports etc be issued to tenants and every other Tom, Dick or Harry. Identity fraud will be rife in Dubai soon. Another fine mess the authorities have got us into!!


----------



## I Know

*Sharing a flat in Dubai: Good, bad and the ugly*





> By Majorie van LeijenPublished Monday, August 27, 2012
> 
> Adversity makes strange bedfellows. So does opportunity.
> 
> Nowhere is this more prevalent than in Dubai, where a variety of factors, though all rooted in the monetary, makes people choose to live together… with strangers.
> 
> For as many people who may flock to the emirate for the life of luxury, there are those who are happy to have a bed to sleep in and some extra space for their belongings.
> 
> If a bedroom turns out to be too costly, just a bed space will do.
> 
> And if that space cannot be afforded, even the bed can be shared.
> 
> Thousands of strangers from all over the world come across other strangers, within the private setting of their living space.
> 
> Different cultures, generations or personalities live side-by-side sharing kitchen, bath and bed in return for the cheapest monthly rent.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...bai-good-bad-and-the-ugly-2012-08-27-1.472853


----------



## I Know

*Dubai moves to ensure developers care, answer investor queries*



> Draft Code of Corporate Governance released
> By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Sunday, August 26, 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After seeking suggestions from the public on the Real Estate Investor Protection Law last month, the Dubai Land Department has asked real estate developers to review the draft Code of Corporate Governance for Developers, Emirates 24|7 can reveal.
> 
> “We kindly ask all real estate developers to review and share their opinion on the draft Code of Corporate Governance for Developers,” the department has said recently.
> 
> _The draft suggests that all developers will have to appoint a dedicated investor relations officer who will deal with enquiries of institutional and individual property investors._


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...e-answer-investor-queries-2012-08-26-1.472617


----------



## SmallM

Of course it is connected, people are living there, just ask the handover team for chiller form and that's it.


----------



## MMDXB

here we go:

Dear Mr. Maik ,

The project has been transferred to Dubai Courts; if you need further information, go to Dubai Courts and meet with Mr. Abddulrahem Muhammed Abddulrahem Ghareb, Ground floor, Office number 113 in Real-Estate Case Section. His contact number 04-3030377 and email [email protected]


----------



## unknownpleasures

Since the RERA website changed and merged with lands dept all this is quite strange! Reposted link as other one didn't work...


http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/English/eServices/ProjectIndicatorEN.aspx


^^^^^ Can anyone find OASIS TOWER 2 on this site above, the developer ID is 311 - have put in Oasis Tower 2, Oasis 2, Oasis Tower Two, and it comes up with "No Record Found"... Does anyone know what the right combination is to locate an update.


----------



## noir-dresses

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/28/real_estate/home-prices/index.html?hpt=ibu_c2

A little off topic but could a US housing price recovery have a positive impact on UAE realestate, and the US dollar ?


----------



## I Know

Great news as most of Europe and USA are suffering with the economic crisis  Again

*Indians fear property bubble burst back home, find Dubai safe*



> By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Wednesday, August 29, 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few years ago buying a property in Dubai was a sign of affluence for Indians back home, but that’s not the case anymore.
> 
> Now it is being seen as a wise and prudent investment decision.
> 
> Besides the close proximity to India, price rationalisation and higher yields in Dubai, Indians continue to buy properties in the emirate because of a "possible" bursting of the Indian housing bubble, according to a property consultant.
> 
> Dubai Land Department data reveals Indians have spent over Dh3.7 billion to buy properties in the first half of 2012 alone, while Indians are also the topmost buyers in Burj Khalifa, the world’s tallest tower.
> 
> Mohanad Alwadiya, Managing Director, Harbor Real Estate, says: “Any real estate industry is somewhat cyclical and the Indian and Dubai industries are currently at different stages in their respective cycles.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...back-home-find-dubai-safe-2012-08-29-1.473179


----------



## Monument

noir-dresses said:


> http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/28/real_estate/home-prices/index.html?hpt=ibu_c2
> 
> A little off topic but could a US housing price recovery have a positive impact on UAE realestate, and the US dollar ?


On the US Dollar - yes. On UAE Real Estate - no.


----------



## I Know

*Tenants must ensure service fee is paid before renting: Emaar*




> By Shuchita KapurPublished Tuesday, August 28, 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To tackle homeowners who fail to pay their dues on time in Emaar communities, the developer recommends that *tenants should ensure *that all community charges are paid in full before they take up a house on rent.
> 
> "Emaar Community Management recommends *that tenants ensure *their landlords have paid the community service fee in full prior to signing their lease agreements to ensure they enjoy all community services,” a spokesperson of Emaar Properties told 'Emirates24|7'.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...paid-before-renting-emaar-2012-08-28-1.472995


----------



## Rakeshdxb

JShaikh

Honestly, I'll tell you what I think.

All the laws and everything are fine if you can implement them against anyone.

In our case, there is no ACI anymore. Whatever of ACI is left, they do not have any money to either pay any compensation to us because of the delay.

If RERA has taken this over, that is only to lead the project to completion. Even RERA is smart and will not take any liability over from ACI.

I would be willing to fight but the problem is there is nobody to beat. 

It is in our best interest to see this through to completion and then hope that there is sufficient appreciation in value in a few years so we can cover our principal + interest.

Cheers
Rakesh.


----------



## I Know

*Update - Hundreds of residents, no mosque in some Dubai areas*



I Know said:


> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/s...dents-no-mosque-in-some-dubai-areas-1.1061881


:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

Great news for investors in Tecom, two in the pipline and two plots just granted. :colgate:

We will hear some news on JLT soon also Insha Allah














> More mosques to come
> 
> 
> This is with reference to Gulf News reader Omar’s comment (‘Nowhere to Pray’, Gulf News, August 22). Tecom Investments acknowledges the importance of having mosques in the Tecom area. We would like to confirm that the area comprising Dubai Media City, Dubai Internet City and Dubai Knowledge Village, currently has one mosque that is functional and two mosques in the pipeline. In Tecom Site C [see map - labelled in orange], two mosque plots have been granted to donors and are currently under design. The mosque at Dubai Knowledge Village is open to residents. The attached map illustrates the layout of existing mosques and the mosques under construction.
> 
> _From Mr Badr Al Gergawi
> 
> CEO of the Engineering Division
> 
> Tecom Investments_


:banana::banana::banana:

http://gulfnews.com/opinions/letters/letters-august-29-2012-1.1067071


----------



## UAE Investor

Perfect Apartment..!

Supercar owners living in an exclusive high-rise apartment block can now park their beloved motors next to their living rooms.



http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/news/singa...h-your-ferrari-parked-outside---100m-up-.html


----------



## I Know

^^Hey thats cool

You could get to the Mosque super quick in that  (in singapore)


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Better to pray at home rather than destroy the environment of gods creation by driving to mosque several times per day.


----------



## Imre

I Know said:


> ^^Hey thats cool
> 
> You could get to the Mosque super quick in that  (in singapore)


If you can afford this you should have an own mosque at home so dont need to waste your time to travel


----------



## I Know

v8_ said:


> I've just joined forums.
> 
> I've around 500-600k aed budget and interested to invest in appt, in JLT or Marina side. Most probably Studio in 5star bldg.
> 
> Can experts guide me on following;
> 
> 1) What is response of Studio for rental and resale in both areas. Is it wise to buy Studio considering Rental and Resale or shall I consider 1BHK.
> 2) Which bldgs you recommend in Marina & JLT. Please name few considering above.
> 3) What you'd choose for above: JLT or Marina.
> 
> Note: I'll sale it with-in 2-3 years period. Please give resale as priority.
> 
> Thanks for your time and help.





v8_ said:


> Thanks for the valuable suggestions.
> 
> I can extend my budget to 800+ but that will make me hand to mouth. But if you mean that investing in Studio can get risky from any angel then I can think of going for 1 bed ?
> 
> Is there is any data available that how many Studios are currently there in Marina, what is the demand of studios in comparison and how many are vacant? This will help me see real picture..
> 
> Also, can you recommend any good bldgs in Marina.
> Botanica seems reasonable but its developer has not much of good reviews. How about Royal Oceanic? There are many studios up for sale on dubizzle in it.


There are many brother agents on this forum of brothers (and sisters) with excellent advice, please choose carefully as you say - *Note: I'll sale it with-in 2-3 years period. Please give resale as priority.* I dont want you to go hand to mouth please, only invest if you have idle funds and can afford to lose out.

Nothing is the sale at the moment so doing the hold :banana:

Also check 



>


http://media.emaratalyoum.com/images/polopoly-inline-images/2012/09/AR14-020912-03.jpg


----------



## unknownpleasures

Posted there but it seems deserted, anyone know anything about this one or is this never to be built?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=682904


----------



## Josau

Interesting read on the sour subject of service charges:
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/service-charges-is-cat-out-of-bag--471438.html


----------



## UAE Investor

Josau said:


> Interesting read on the sour subject of service charges:
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/service-charges-is-cat-out-of-bag--471438.html


Great article and for once well written...
:cheers:


----------



## xingu

There is another subletting scam that has been uncovered in Dubai over the last few days, mainly affecting residents in the Greens, but also goes to Downtown area as well.

If you are a renter in the Greens and paid under market value for an apartment in 1 cheque to a KSA national chances are you are involved. The company initials are SES, check your contracts asap

The Rent commitee and Police are already aware of the situation, many of the residents been to RERA/Rent Commitee and Police over last 2 days.


----------



## TerryPop

Nakheel is 100% using service charge excess/inflation as a profit source-100%.

_Had 31 aed psf in discovery gardens at one point vs 12 dirhams psf in Emaar original 6- as an extreme example._

*The only questions are:*

a) how long can Nakheel hold off with the formation of OA's and balance sheet transparency- shkh Mo' must must must be allowing this delay in regulation to bring Nakheel back to life.

and 

b) What are Nakheel going to do, to hide the huge hole in revenue and on their balance sheets once the Service charges are moderated and not a source of revenue???


(if they are clearing an extra 10aed per square foot now, and that is being tucked into profit on their books elsewhere- that could run into millions and millions! think how many square feet they have).







Josau said:


> Interesting read on the sour subject of service charges:
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/service-charges-is-cat-out-of-bag--471438.html


----------



## Imre

xingu said:


> There is another subletting scam that has been uncovered in Dubai over the last few days, mainly affecting residents in the Greens, but also goes to Downtown area as well.
> 
> If you are a renter in the Greens and paid under market value for an apartment in 1 cheque to a KSA national chances are you are involved. The company initials are SES, check your contracts asap
> 
> The Rent commitee and Police are already aware of the situation, many of the residents been to RERA/Rent Commitee and Police over last 2 days.


Nobody cares about this, just more and more companies doing the same "business" , so it seems Dubai is the best place for fraud/scam in the world , you can do anything without control and checking


----------



## I Know




----------



## xingu

Imre said:


> Nobody cares about this, just more and more companies doing the same "business" , so it seems Dubai is the best place for fraud/scam in the world , you can do anything without control and checking


No one other than the approximate 300-500 sets of landlords and tenants it affects.


----------



## Imre

xingu said:


> No one other than the approximate 300-500 sets of landlords and tenants it affects.


Should be more ... I am getting emails every day about this , one company have around 200 properties for rent now , they have garden homes and signature villas as well 

Amazing how naive people here or just how greedy they are ?


----------



## TerryPop

Has anybody here witheld payment of SC's from Nakheel for more then a year?

Do you all just pay out regardless?



TerryPop said:


> Nakheel is 100% using service charge excess/inflation as a profit source-100%.
> 
> _Had 31 aed psf in discovery gardens at one point vs 12 dirhams psf in Emaar original 6- as an extreme example._
> 
> *The only questions are:*
> 
> a) how long can Nakheel hold off with the formation of OA's and balance sheet transparency- shkh Mo' must must must be allowing this delay in regulation to bring Nakheel back to life.
> 
> and
> 
> b) What are Nakheel going to do, to hide the huge hole in revenue and on their balance sheets once the Service charges are moderated and not a source of revenue???
> 
> 
> (if they are clearing an extra 10aed per square foot now, and that is being tucked into profit on their books elsewhere- that could run into millions and millions! think how many square feet they have).


----------



## unknownpleasures

Anyone know anything about this one or is this never to be built?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=682904


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

TerryPop said:


> Has anybody here witheld payment of SC's from Nakheel for more then a year?
> 
> Do you all just pay out regardless?


The issue whether a or not to pay service charges is reverberating all across Dubai. Nakheel is one of the companies that are blatantly disregarding municipal regulations in not assisting home owners in forming HOA 's, home owner associations. Having an association would enable the owners of having insight into their buildings budget and what is being spent where. I really can't blame an owner for not paying service fees when you have no control on how it is spent. This issue affects many buildings in Dubai, not solely Nakheel developments. Ultimately it is for RERA to force developers to to comply with regulations but they seem reluctant to get involved, essentially a paper tiger. The higher authorities need to intervene but I bet you that will only happen as BBC runs a special on the Dubai Marina towers that slowly, one by one, go dark.....


----------



## I Know

*٪15 زيادة في أسعار محفظة «تمويل» العقارية خلال 18 شهراً​:banana:*



المصدر: دبي ــ الإمارات اليومالتاريخ: 05 سبتمبر 2012 




> كشفت «تمويل»، الشركة المتخصصة في حلول التمويل السكني المتوافقة مع أحكام الشريعة الإسلامية، في بيان لها، أمس، عن البيانات الخاصة بأسعار مبيع العقارات التي مولتها ضمن محفظتها خلال الـ18 شهراً الماضية، إذ سجلت الشركة بين يناير 2011 ويونيو 2012 زيادة في أسعار مبيع العقارات ضمن محفظتها بنسبة تراوح بين 10 و15٪، إذ بلغ ارتفاع القيمة الشرائية ذروته في المشروعات القائمة والمكتملة في كل من دبي وأبوظبي.
> 
> 
> ومن ضمن المجموعة المتنوعة من العقارات التي مولتها، شهدت الشركة زيادات في الأسعار تتجاوز 15٪ في كل من المشروعات التالية: وسط مدينة دبي، المرابع العربية، فيكتوري هايتس، تلال الإمارات، السهول، البحيرات، جميرا بيتش ريزيدنس، نخلة جميرا، مرسى دبي، قرية جميرا، واحة دبي للسيليكون، ذا فيوز، الخليج التجاري، منطقة مركز دبي المالي العالمي، إضافة إلى الزيادة بنسبة تراوح بين 10 و15٪ في مشروعات فلل الريف، حدائق الغولف، حدائق الراحة في أبوظبي. وشهدت «تمويل» زيادة بنسبة 26٪ في طلبات التمويل السكني خلال النصف الأول من عام ،2012 مقارنة بالفترة ذاتها من العام الماضي.



http://www.emaratalyoum.com/business/local/2012-09-05-1.509301​


----------



## True Blue

^^Translation of the main points;

*Tamweel report a 15% increase in the price of a portfolio of properties over a period of 18 months.
*

............... the company saw increases in the prices of more than 15% in each of the following projects: downtown Dubai, Arabian Ranches, Victory Heights, Emirates Hills, plains, lakes, Jumeirah Beach Residence, Palm Jumeirah, Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Village, Dubai Silicon Oasis, The Views, Business Bay, the Dubai International Financial Centre, in addition to the increase rate ranged between 10% and 15% in projects Reef Villas, Golf Gardens, Al Raha Gardens in Abu Dhabi. And saw 26% increase in requests for housing finance during the first half of the year, 2012 compared to the same period last year.



I Know said:


> Prices are falling in JLT so be careful, make sure you pay less than original price, due to the current issues with parking costs and general upkeep of the ponds which tend to smell.
> 
> A tenant may have the same issue as you with regards to the Z plot.
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/parking-barriers-being-installed-at-jlt-1.1064763
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...n-is-king-of-parking-bays-2012-08-14-1.471375
> 
> Z plot will probably not be started anytime soon - thread -http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=305937&page=9
> 
> Only my opinion


Seems you are saying different things in different languages!! What are you really up to?


----------



## TerryPop

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> The issue whether a or not to pay service charges is reverberating all across Dubai. Nakheel is one of the companies that are blatantly disregarding municipal regulations in not assisting home owners in forming HOA 's, home owner associations. Having an association would enable the owners of having insight into their buildings budget and what is being spent where. I really can't blame an owner for not paying service fees when you have no control on how it is spent. This issue affects many buildings in Dubai, not solely Nakheel developments. Ultimately it is for RERA to force developers to to comply with regulations but they seem reluctant to get involved, essentially a paper tiger. The higher authorities need to intervene but I bet you that will only happen as BBC runs a special on the Dubai Marina towers that slowly, one by one, go dark.....



I think its a 'turn a blind eye' tactic until Nakheel are clear from their strife.

Interesting to see the upward movement in property prices too. I believe JLT is actually rising and has been for some time.

I have a few units there and as rents increase so do asking prices b/c of the yield variable- this is what I see at any rate :2cents:


----------



## Imre

xingu said:


> There is another subletting scam that has been uncovered in Dubai over the last few days, mainly affecting residents in the Greens, but also goes to Downtown area as well.
> 
> If you are a renter in the Greens and paid under market value for an apartment in 1 cheque to a KSA national chances are you are involved. The company initials are SES, check your contracts asap
> 
> The Rent commitee and Police are already aware of the situation, many of the residents been to RERA/Rent Commitee and Police over last 2 days.


Here we are:


----------



## may12

doesn't look like it, now they are saying something is wrong with the water connection and some pipes !!!! the properties are still not fully registered with Tecom :bash:


----------



## v8_

TerryPop said:


> I think its a 'turn a blind eye' tactic until Nakheel are clear from their strife.
> 
> Interesting to see the upward movement in property prices too. I believe JLT is actually rising and has been for some time.
> 
> I have a few units there and as rents increase so do asking prices b/c of the yield variable- this is what I see at any rate :2cents:


True about JLT, prices have increased rapidly in last 3-4 months.
My colleague purchased 1BHK in Green Lakes for aed 840k in May, now he has offers of 950k-975k.


----------



## worried4

*Dubai Sports City*



v8_ said:


> True about JLT, prices have increased rapidly in last 3-4 months.
> My colleague purchased 1BHK in Green Lakes for aed 840k in May, now he has offers of 950k-975k.


What about prices in Dubai Sports City? Up--down-Collapsing?


----------



## v8_

^sorry I've only probed JLT, Marina and JBR properties. Not sure about other projects!


----------



## unknownpleasures

worried4 said:


> What about prices in Dubai Sports City? Up--down-Collapsing?


That's a great question, has anyone actually probed this place, it was said to be a one of a kind in the world...where is it now...bottom of the ladder?:dunno::dunno::dunno:


----------



## noir-dresses

v8_ said:


> ^sorry I've only probed JLT, Marina and JBR properties. Not sure about other projects!


So what would the average square foot be worth as of now in all three of those locations ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Average asking price of approx. AED 1,200 psf for marina and JBR apartments now and AED 860 for JLT


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai_Steve said:


> Average asking price of approx. AED 1,200 psf for marina and JBR apartments now and AED 860 for JLT


Thanks Steve, does look like the prices are rising, let's see how much more they can rise before next summer.


----------



## v8_

noir-dresses said:


> So what would the average square foot be worth as of now in all three of those locations ?





Dubai_Steve said:


> Average asking price of approx. AED 1,200 psf for marina and JBR apartments now and AED 860 for JLT


^Almost correct considering only premium construction. Being bit more precise, my analysis is as following for current market;

JLT: 675-725 for average construction going upto 850-875 for premium towers
Marina: 800-850 upto 1000-1200
JBR: 1000-1200

I've just invested in JLT @ 765 per SqFt


----------



## bjassin

Since nobody has brought up the issue of investment visas recently, I found this article interesting. It's about the USA Investment Visa program. Basically, you can have a permanent USA residency visa for $500,000.


 LInk to Article 


_When Marriott International wanted to open a new hotel in downtown Seattle, the company’s developers didn’t sell bonds, take out a mortgage or tap other traditional forms of financing for the $88 million project. Instead, it raised the bulk of the money from wealthy immigrants who wanted a green card.

A government program, which grants so-called EB-5 visas to foreigners who invest at least $500,000 in an American business, is now a popular source of financing for new Marriott hotels. Since the Seattle deal in 2008, the company has endorsed 14 projects that use EB-5 financing, including the downtown Milwaukee Marriott, a Courtyard Marriott in Midtown Manhattan and a $168 million hotel near the Staples Center in Los Angeles._


----------



## ConcernedAussie

*What you smokin' Skinnygirl?*

I'd like to know just what planet or medication you are on to post comments like this: We all want to be on your planet or at least on the same medication. Try 2015 ++. This project is in reality a very looong way off and even at the end will sit on the stench of a stagnant creek within a location not too dissimilar to a Mad Max movie set, a "wasteland".



skinnygirl said:


> Just had a site visit to the PV and D1. The finishing is very classy and the Creek views are fantastic, better than anything in the Marina and no one is going to build in front.
> Eat your hearts out Infinity tower owners, you'll soon only have a view of someone else's kitchen/bathroom/bedroom etc!
> 
> Enshaa do not allow photos from the inside looking out. Don't ask me why, the view is a terrific selling point.
> 
> There is progress with the construction, but because the issue with Dubai Properties ("DP") hasn't been resolved, progress is slow.
> 
> Enshaa are confident that DP will deliver but if not, they will bring in the power from Festival City. However, this is going to be expensive.
> 
> The rest of Culture Village is also being held to ransom by DP, but the Creek location of the PV and D1 will make them attractive even if Culture Village doesn't get completed.
> 
> I would guess Completion for D1 and PV is Q3 2013 but it depends on DP.
> 
> If you get a chance, go and have a site visit yourself and be impressed!


----------



## ConcernedAussie

*I'm not impressed*

I just can't wait to book my room at Versace - maybe I can get the Versace "Wastland View room" or the "Look at all the derelict deserted building sites" room or the "Can we smell the diesel geneterator fumes" room or the "Skinny Girl Honorary Room" named in your honour for constantly talking up the deveopment.


----------



## Spurs

I just confirmed with DNRD that owners of the property evaluated above AED1,000,000 can apply for Residence Visa 2 years.
The below documents requirement I got from Customer Care in DLD. 
Passport Copy
1 photo
Title Deed
AED410 for approval
Approval time: 1 month
All documents submit to Customer Service in DLD Ground Floor. They do not have anything on paper but confirmed that process can be started immediately. Also confirmed that joint owner (not related) can obtain visa too. Well, all will depend on DRND approval.


----------



## UAE Investor

from the torch thread(Dubai Steve)



> I notice that average asking prices of 2 beds in the Torch have gone up by about AED 100,000 in the last few months.





noir-dresses said:


> Thanks Steve, does look like the prices are rising, let's see how much more they can rise before next summer.




Its amazing that Dubai has started to sell a bit more of its masive over supply...and yet the greed sets in and prices are pump up....hno:


----------



## noir-dresses

UAE Investor said:


> from the torch thread(Dubai Steve)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its amazing that Dubai has started to sell a bit more of its masive over supply...and yet the greed sets in and prices are pump up....hno:


I'm not sure what you exactly mean ? Do you find the rise of realestate prices a bad thing in Dubai after the belly flop of 2008 ? I honestly think the prices are way to under rated in Dubai for what it should be, especially when I compare whats going on in Toronto's skyrocketing realestate boom.

Dubai is still a bargain no matter what any body says. The place has a jet set image, the fancy smancy glitz chic feel, so any real adjustment should be on the rise, no ????


----------



## unknownpleasures

Anywhere is a belly flop if people have been ripped off Dubai is no exception to this rule in fact it's worse! Lies and more lies do not fix the problem, over supply is a problem in some areas and not enough in others (where construction has just stopped) and all you have left is skeletons or holes left or construction sites that are neverending but on hold instead (there is no money and agents were still selling after the supposed crash in 2008)...How on earth is Dubai considered anything...you can't drink there, you can't even kiss on the beach for fear of being arrested, it's hot, hot, hot (50 plus) and worse still no infrastructure where it was promised! How is it considered worse in western civilisation where there is far more freedom exercised and at least you can buy something and it will get delivered as indicated on a contract including off plan. Does anyone wanna take a flat off someone's hands, they purchased in 2007 and it's still a hole in the ground.....anyone consider that a fair deal (the hole in the ground?) when thousands have been poured in by various people from all over the world amounting to millions only to be bitten in the backside because trust was the main thing that made them invest there (they were not flipping the market they were and are genuine investors)...anything wrong with investing money to get ahead? I mean the ruler guaranteed it after all in his 2003 speech...anyone got any idea what he said? Here's a reminder:



> "When I encourage you to invest, I am not asking you to put your money into a fire - I guarantee that your money will be invested in carefully studied projects. I want to be frank with you - I have the courage to take decisions and to bear the responsibility for the consequences. Do you have the courage to be frank and decisive?"


Why are people so hell bent and in denial and defending the indefensible?


----------



## UAE Investor

noir-dresses said:


> I'm not sure what you exactly mean ? Do you find the rise of realestate prices a bad thing in Dubai after the belly flop of 2008 ? I honestly think the prices are way to under rated in Dubai for what it should be, especially when I compare whats going on in Toronto's skyrocketing realestate boom.
> 
> Dubai is still a bargain no matter what any body says. The place has a jet set image, the fancy smancy glitz chic feel, so any real adjustment should be on the rise, no ????


A bad thing well no..but as soon as there,s a bit of demand for anything in Flights /hotels etc in Dubai..the money men just get to work..with the help of the local press of course,..

Back here in Uk, one does forget how special Duba is i do admit that..!

i don,t know where this is all going ..are we heading for another big crash...?


----------



## Mistermark

noir-dresses said:


> I'm not sure what you exactly mean ? Do you find the rise of realestate prices a bad thing in Dubai after the belly flop of 2008 ? I honestly think the prices are way to under rated in Dubai for what it should be, especially when I compare whats going on in Toronto's skyrocketing realestate boom.
> 
> Dubai is still a bargain no matter what any body says. The place has a jet set image, the fancy smancy glitz chic feel, so any real adjustment should be on the rise, no ????


You mention Toronto. Today I can buy a 1800 sq ft apartment with three beds, three baths, lake views, for around CAN 500k. A similar apartment in Dubai Marina would be much the same price. OK, Toronto is uncomfortably cold in winter, but Dubai is too hot in summer. However the huge differences between the two are that Canada is one of the most democratic countries in the world and one of the most transparent places to do business in. It also has a highly diversified economy with well regulated banks. The risk factors are therefore very much lower than in Dubai; given similar property prices, it looks to me to be a much better buy.


----------



## gevorika78

ConcernedAussie said:


> I just can't wait to book my room at Versace - maybe I can get the Versace "Wastland View room" or the "Look at all the derelict deserted building sites" room or the "Can we smell the diesel geneterator fumes" room or the "Skinny Girl Honorary Room" named in your honour for constantly talking up the deveopment.


chill pill anyone?


----------



## W40arx

Is anyone attending the next meeting on the 10th September?


----------



## UAE Investor

Just how many of these flats are occupied..judging by the lights on 15% +/- ?

Maybe its charm is in its tranquility..i.e lack off humans

Have to say, i have,nt been there, in the evening for some years so ..

Hope i don,t come across too negative, i still love the place,,










(Pic courtesy of Dessert Diver)


----------



## PrincessTower

UAE Investor said:


> Just how many of these flats are occupied..judging by the lights on 15% +/- ?....



judging by the lights on this late at night (desert diver usually goes "hunting" rather late) the occupancy in the building I live in is about 15% also.

In reality it is about 95% in my building. So the number of light on only tell you the number of lights on. Nothing more.


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

Spurs said:


> I just confirmed with DNRD that owners of the property evaluated above AED1,000,000 can apply for Residence Visa 2 years.
> The below documents requirement I got from Customer Care in DLD.
> Passport Copy
> 1 photo
> Title Deed
> AED410 for approval
> Approval time: 1 month
> All documents submit to Customer Service in DLD Ground Floor. They do not have anything on paper but confirmed that process can be started immediately. Also confirmed that joint owner (not related) can obtain visa too. Well, all will depend on DRND approval.


2 years residence visa ??!! That's big news if true. Property related Resudence Visas has been limited to 6 months previously. Anyone else have any info on this ? If true will push Dubai property prices higher.


----------



## v8_

UAE Investor said:


> Just how many of these flats are occupied..judging by the lights on 15% +/- ?
> 
> Maybe its charm is in its tranquility..i.e lack off humans
> 
> Have to say, i have,nt been there, in the evening for some years so ..
> 
> Hope i don,t come across too negative, i still love the place,,
> 
> (Pic courtesy of Dessert Diver)


I'll try to take pic of my residence at night where lights say that it is hardly 30-35% occupied, where as in actual it is 80-85% occupied.


----------



## anacreon

DR.SHREJMAN said:


> its taking too much time to finish it!!! contractor thumbs down



Has anyone heard from DEC recently as to when this one is now due to complete?


----------



## UAE Investor

PrincessTower said:


> judging by the lights on this late at night (desert diver usually goes "hunting" rather late) the occupancy in the building I live in is about 15% also.
> 
> In reality it is about 95% in my building. So the number of light on only tell you the number of lights on. Nothing more.






v8_ said:


> I'll try to take pic of my residence at night where lights say that it is hardly 30-35% occupied, where as in actual it is 80-85% occupied.


Yeah i thought i might get shot down in flames on that one..anyway people have holiday homes there, and are not alway present most of the time i guess


----------



## UAE Investor

Petition is gaining recognition....

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/duba...etition-land-department-472273.html?message=1

Usual BS responce from DSC,.....


----------



## Sshooter

So what happens now to this tower when investors seek refund? Any idea?


----------



## Androider

Marwan wants the project to be finished... so they are starting the cancellation process of the investors who have payed LESS then 75%.
Also, contract will be changed with the payment plan... they want us to pay up to 80% of the project now and then 5%+5%+5%+5% in order for the project to go.


----------



## unknownpleasures

This is a joke right?? Don't think anyone would want to touch it with a ten foot pole...no finish is ever going to look like those glossy brochures and that's how they all were sucked in before even when they did their research. Off Plans are taboo!

This is good for a laugh.......

Directly from developer - :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Prime location - :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Earn high rental return - :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Fully furnished, equipped hotel apartments - :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Enjoy luxury spa, heated pool, state of the art gym - Butler service, Chauffeur Service and much more?? - :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Easy payment plans - :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::nuts:

High rental when you are not staying - :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh and one thing is missing the completion date...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: hno:hno:hno:hno:


----------



## Parisian Girl

_Property prices in Dubai 'accelerating': Tameer chief_
http://www.emirates247.com/property...accelerating-tameer-chief-2012-09-12-1.475238

_Checklist for Dubai renters to avoid sub-letting scams_
http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...o-avoid-sub-letting-scams-2012-09-12-1.475172


----------



## Parisian Girl

_Al Futtaim to build new property at Festival City_
http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...build-new-property-at-festival-city-1.1073076


----------



## unknownpleasures

Amazing! Why don't they just take on projects that are on hold (all those waiting to start or those just left to rot because developers made a meal of it and instead purchase the projects from the previously scamming developer who left people high and dry) to complete instead of going down the same track where the off plan market collapsed as the laws are non existent and are made up as they go along!


----------



## dubaiprojects

Any one have had an experiene of investing in turkey?
I receved information about the following project.
http://www.onaltidokuzistanbul.com/

Although i doubt the investment point of view turkey can be compared to dubai, for one where would i find the tenants in turky at the same level as in dubai...


Cheers


----------



## Scailer

Miss Laneous said:


> The court case is about Abyaar being 2-3 years late minimum to deliver the properties, for no good reason. Other developers, like Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Properties that have had delays have all now offered investors either money back or credit notes. Abyaar can't offer credit notes because they have nothing worth credit :bash:


Have you got any aid from lawyers there? I have 2 contracts for Olgana & tones of lie from Abyaar. They doesn't have their own office as far as I know, they (2 men) have a room in their ex-office. I met them there and we had dissapointing discussion. 

I'd like to find a lawyer and go to Court or Mosque? Could anybody introduce me to a realible lawyer there in Dubai or Kuweit?


----------



## Pleth

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...real-estate-investor-visa-2012-09-17-1.475751
Dubai to issue 2 year residence visa's for property owners.
Guessing the price will be 6.000 Aed per year?


----------



## Imre

Pleth said:


> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...real-estate-investor-visa-2012-09-17-1.475751
> Dubai to issue 2 year residence visa's for property owners.
> Guessing the price will be 6.000 Aed per year?


I am reading the same article but its not too clear..

First you need a trade license which is 2000 AED , then need visa 2000AED/6 months which is 4000 AED/year+ trade license , total 6000 AED/year.

Its bit complicated, why they dont ask 6000 AED for visa and forget the trade license? This process seems waste of time  

I think this is just BS from media and nothing official, just have a look this:

*"A Department of Naturalisation and Residency Dubai call centre employee said they had not received any update on the new visa and were still issuing six-month visa to property investors."*


----------



## Imre

Just wondering how many people died because of this VIP's.. I am sure they still have driving license .

_*Who's the Dubai VIP who piled up Dh9.4m fines in 12,740 offences?*_

By StaffPublished Monday, September 17, 2012 

*An important personality in Dubai has piled up 12,740 traffic offences involving fines of nearly Dh9.4 million in just 18 months, topping a VIP list of traffic offenders prepared by the traffic police in the emirate.*

The list includes 33 VIPs, who have committed a total 21,148 offences and accumulated a whopping Dh14.3 million in fines.

The list shows one VIP, who was not identified, has piled up a staggering 12,740 road penalties involving Dh9.39 million in fines in around 18 months. It showed the fines were committed by the “many vehicles” owned by that personality as well as other cars whose registration has expired.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-fines-in-12-740-offences-2012-09-17-1.475638


----------



## unknownpleasures

Is he/she a developer ^^^^^^^^^^^^^?

Says traffic fines, not sure about people being killed, doesn't say this!


----------



## Imre

unknownpleasures said:


> Is he/she a developer ^^^^^^^^^^^^^?
> 
> Says traffic fines, not sure about people being killed, doesn't say this!


Yes but if you have a fine every hour , are you a safe driver? 

The news just a joke and shows some people above the law.


----------



## Pleth

Imre said:


> I am reading the same article but its not too clear..
> 
> First you need a trade license which is 2000 AED , then need visa 2000AED/6 months which is 4000 AED/year+ trade license , total 6000 AED/year.
> 
> Its bit complicated, why they dont ask 6000 AED for visa and forget the trade license? This process seems waste of time
> 
> I think this is just BS from media and nothing official, just have a look this:
> 
> *"A Department of Naturalisation and Residency Dubai call centre employee said they had not received any update on the new visa and were still issuing six-month visa to property investors."*


This is probably gossip that should encourage people to buy property, same as happended 4 years ago. But then the visa thing didn't happen either.

But I do understand the issue about the trade licence, this way they can filter the people and reject the the ones they don't want inside the borders.
Besides the goverment will make a lot of money on this.


----------



## building1

Scailer said:


> Have you got any aid from lawyers there? I have 2 contracts for Olgana & tones of lie from Abyaar. They doesn't have their own office as far as I know, they (2 men) have a room in their ex-office. I met them there and we had dissapointing discussion.
> 
> I'd like to find a lawyer and go to Court or Mosque? Could anybody introduce me to a realible lawyer there in Dubai or Kuweit?


Ask them to give you a credit note for your properties. You can sell the credit notes easily. I know villa owners who need to do the handover payments and are happy to buy your credit notes with a small discount.


----------



## True Blue

unknownpleasures said:


> Is he/she a developer ^^^^^^^^^^^^^?
> 
> Says traffic fines, not sure about people being killed, doesn't say this!





Imre said:


> Yes but if you have a fine every hour , are you a safe driver?
> 
> The news just a joke and shows some people above the law.


I read that news article and it just shows that if you are rich you don't need to worry about the law. The law is only for poor people in Dubai. Anywhere else the Police are there to "serve and protect" so they should have these people in prison until they can show respect for both the law and the public.

In reading the article online I was provided with other suggestions of articles that I may be interested in. One such article was of an Egyptian man who was out with his wife and family and was attempting to change his flat tyre by the side of the road when he was hit by a speeding Landcruiser. They go into outrageous detail about the scale of his injury, so grotesque that I refuse to repeat it on grounds of decency and respect to his family. I wonder how many driving offences the driver had committed in a year. If the law was working, he would not be driving and the poor Egyptian husband and father would still be alive.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Is anyone here concerned about how the likely US/Iran war and the issues arising out of Syria will affect their investments in Dubai?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...013-says-ex-u-s-ambassador-to-israel-1.465366


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai_Steve said:


> Is anyone here concerned about how the likely US/Iran war and the issues arising out of Syria will affect their investments in Dubai?
> 
> http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...013-says-ex-u-s-ambassador-to-israel-1.465366


A few hit tankers could make a huge oil spill aswel.


----------



## Imre

Dubai_Steve said:


> Is anyone here concerned about how the likely US/Iran war and the issues arising out of Syria will affect their investments in Dubai?
> 
> http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...013-says-ex-u-s-ambassador-to-israel-1.465366


Iran says will hit Hormuz, US bases, Israel if attacked

By AFP | AFP – Sun, Sep 16, 2012

The head of Iran's powerful Revolutionary Guards on Sunday warned of retaliation against the Gulf's strategic Strait of Hormuz, US bases in the Middle East and Israel if his country was to be attacked.


Jafari suggested that US military bases -- such as those in Bahrain, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia -- would also be fair game for retaliation by Iranian missiles or proxy forces.

http://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/iran-says-hit-hormuz-us-bases-israel-attacked-103547677.html


----------



## axe2grind

*Judgement Against Sunland in Australia*

http://newsstore.fairfax.com.au/app...cls=2468&clsPage=1&docID=AGE120915D97D43967VG

Hope this link works. Sunland given severe ticking off by an Australian judge in their case against 2 Australian expats who were alleged to have cheated Emirates Sunland on the purchase of a piece of land on Palm Jebel Ali. Sohail Abidian has now found himself in a jurisdiction where he can't use wastir to get his way. Judge has also said that Sunland should be investigated by the securities regulator. Time running out for Abidian with more trouble to come his way.

Its not been going well for Sunland since they skipped town with their tail between their legs!

They have also lost numerous cases on the Nur project and have yet to pay up!! 

How the mighty have fallen!!!


----------



## unknownpleasures

> Originally Posted by unknownpleasures View Post
> Is he/she a developer ^?
> 
> Says traffic fines, not sure about people being killed, doesn't say this!





> Originally Posted by Imre View Post
> Yes but if you have a fine every hour , are you a safe driver?
> 
> The news just a joke and shows some people above the law.





True Blue said:


> I read that news article and it just shows that if you are rich you don't need to worry about the law. The law is only for poor people in Dubai. Anywhere else the Police are there to "serve and protect" so they should have these people in prison until they can show respect for both the law and the public.
> 
> In reading the article online I was provided with other suggestions of articles that I may be interested in. One such article was of an Egyptian man who was out with his wife and family and was attempting to change his flat tyre by the side of the road when he was hit by a speeding Landcruiser. They go into outrageous detail about the scale of his injury, so grotesque that I refuse to repeat it on grounds of decency and respect to his family. I wonder how many driving offences the driver had committed in a year. If the law was working, he would not be driving and the poor Egyptian husband and father would still be alive.



Which brings me to the remark made above re developers (it was to highlight what has gone on) - it appears that anyone who has money behind them is protected thereby developers were used as an example of being above the law (given this is a property and investment thread). 

As they say "money talks"......


----------



## bister

*That's Rich, Nr. 49!*



Number 49 said:


> But as Sunland are no longer involved in the Palazzo Versace development, it is rather irrelevant!


Okay, so the fact that Sunland has been marred by lost court battles since their asty Dubai exit is irrelevant???? Is it completely unthinkable that Sunland will somehow default on their agreement with the new owners of the development? If more skeletons fall out of the Sunland closet this could get very real for PV investors.

Not saying it will happen but saying that the news bears some relevance.


----------



## bister

bister said:


> Okay, so the fact that Sunland has been marred by lost court battles since their asty Dubai exit is irrelevant???? Is it completely unthinkable that Sunland will somehow default on their agreement with the new owners of the development? If more skeletons fall out of the Sunland closet this could get very real for PV investors.
> 
> Not saying it will happen but saying that the news bears some relevance.


Let me furtermore quote the Supreme Court Judgement:

_However, Justice Croft yesterday found that the way Sunland ran its case, the extent to which it failed in respect of all essential elements *and Sunlands dealing with the Dubai authorities*, provides a strong basis for a finding of ulterior purpose on Sunlands part._

If Sunland has indeed cut corners with the Dubai authorities chances are real that this will spill over to the new owners. Then again Skinny Girl will just accuse me of more scare mongering.


----------



## Mistermark

unknownpleasures said:


> Which brings me to the remark made above re developers (it was to highlight what has gone on) - it appears that anyone who has money behind them is protected thereby developers were used as an example of being above the law (given this is a property and investment thread).
> 
> As they say "money talks"......


I think it's blood as much as, or more than, money. In Arab business culture, kinship networks count for a lot. Every Dubai developer has a local 'sponsor' or shareholder, usually a member of or very close to the ruling family phone or other of the Emirates. Which trumps a Westerner with a valid case in a legal dispute, whether it's about a traffic accident or a business dispute.


----------



## agod

Originally Posted by Leshall, I found these to be the Words of Wisdom, after being here nearly 4 Years and hearing of many cases being lost in Court, when they should have been won, as the Contract was broken, it didnt count for much against a connected developer.

What you have to accept is that any litigation or arbitration will have to take place under the laws of the UAE/Dubai and under those laws the status of Vendor/Agent is quite different from those in English Law. In English Law an agent is the representative of the Vendor and can legally represent the Vendor in Contract. That is not the case in Dubai. 

What I also came to realise when I worked in Dubai is that in the UAE law is decided by the social status of one of the parties. That means that the closer you are to the Royal Family the more likely you are to win your case or to have the matter hushed up. That is why whenever a company starts trading in the UAE it must secure the patronage of the most powerful sheikh it can afford.

Any case that we bring through the courts in Dubai will be hard fought. The only way that we will have a chance of winning is to embarrass the Dubai Government through bad publicity into forcing the developer to act fairly.


----------



## Al shali

Yes I agree with above comments, we have unknowingly invested our hard earned savings in a system where tribal solidarity and wasta trumps an independent judiciary and excisting laws, where a contract is not worth the paper it is written on. It appears to be a cultural issue. Surely Emiratis along with expats and Dubai's reputation as a whole would benefit from a functional, fair and affordable legal framework.


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> I read that news article and it just shows that if you are rich you don't need to worry about the law. The law is only for poor people in Dubai. .


I always agree with you True Blue, but not this time :lol:
It is the same anywhere in the world, the people who can afford the parking fines can park anywhere! When I lived in London you saw Rolls Royces park anywhere because they could easily afford the parking fines even if they had 3 in a day! (Then they invented the wheel clam).
In any country in the world there will always be people who can afford to pay numerous fines.

In Dubai we also have the black point system just like in any other country.

And somebody else suggested that the locals here get away with more than the expats, that I find absolutely nonsense. I am living in Dubai and I can tell you that sometimes they are even harder on the locals to teach them to behave.


----------



## Pro Bono

Mistermark said:


> I think it's blood as much as, or more than, money. In Arab business culture, kinship networks count for a lot. Every Dubai developer has a local 'sponsor' or shareholder, usually a member of or very close to the ruling family phone or other of the Emirates. Which trumps a Westerner with a valid case in a legal dispute, whether it's about a traffic accident or a business dispute.


You keep whining on about how impossible it is to get justice in Dubai and how Developers are protected by influential locals. 

This is simply false. By you making these incorrect statements you are serving the rogue developers of Dubai and encouraging investors to accept the status quo and not seeking justice in the courts.

I have personally won a case and received an award against a Dubai developer in excess of Dh3m and I know of several others who have too. I’m not saying it was easy, far from it. It took almost 2 years and a lot of hard work and considerable costs, but I won the case at arbitration and executed the award at court. I received back everything I paid plus compensation and costs. Legal action turned a disastrous investment into a profitable outcome for me and if more people had the guts and determination to act this way the whole UAE system would be better for it.

I have read your comments about how those who have won a case should provide evidence of it so that it can be believed. Why don’t you stump up some evidence of your conspiracy theory of locals protecting developers? I'll tell you why, because you can’t that’s why. You are just perpetuating a myth of how the law works in this region. 

So in order to give you an opportunity to redeem yourself. Here is my example of how a single foreign investor with a lawyer can win a case against Emaar the biggest most influential Government owned company in Dubai



> The Dubai Court of Cassation issued an order on Nov 29 to allow representatives for Carlos Jose Periera to seize Emaar’s Dubai offices in an attempt to recoup AED3.4m, reflecting his villa payments to date and a sum of interest.


*http://www.arabianbusiness.com/buyer-won-court-order-seize-emaar-offices-in-villa-row-438713.html*


----------



## mackie1964

*You can win a case in Dubai & Imre the super Agent*

I know a few people who have won cases in Dubai but agreed to keep it under wraps!!!!

By the way, Imre has delivered the goods every time I asked him to handle a property (Rent or Sell), I had offers within days. Not advertising for him but its a true statement about one of the major contributors to this forum for years. Thanks Imre :cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

mackie1964 said:


> I know a few people who have won cases in Dubai but agreed to keep it under wraps!!!!
> 
> By the way, Imre has delivered the goods every time I asked him to handle a property (Rent or Sell), I had offers within days. Not advertising for him but its a true statement about one of the major contributors to this forum for years. Thanks Imre :cheers:


Imre is not your ordinary realestate agent, in a way he's a trend setter for all other agents to follow when it comes to being informed on each, and every project with regular photo updates to match.


----------



## True Blue

agod said:


> Originally Posted by Leshall, I found these to be the Words of Wisdom, after being here nearly 4 Years and hearing of many cases being lost in Court, when they should have been won, as the Contract was broken, it didnt count for much against a connected developer.
> 
> What you have to accept is that any litigation or arbitration will have to take place under the laws of the UAE/Dubai and under those laws the status of Vendor/Agent is quite different from those in English Law. In English Law an agent is the representative of the Vendor and can legally represent the Vendor in Contract. That is not the case in Dubai.
> 
> What I also came to realise when I worked in Dubai is that in the UAE law is decided by the social status of one of the parties. That means that the closer you are to the Royal Family the more likely you are to win your case or to have the matter hushed up. That is why whenever a company starts trading in the UAE it must secure the patronage of the most powerful sheikh it can afford.
> 
> Any case that we bring through the courts in Dubai will be hard fought. The only way that we will have a chance of winning is to embarrass the Dubai Government through bad publicity into forcing the developer to act fairly.


I believe there are 2 different legal frameworks in operation in Dubai. The main Dubai Courts operate under Sharia law and are better suited to resolving disputes between Arabs/Emirates. Then there is the the courts that operate in certain free zone areas like Tecom and DIFC. These courts follow international legal frameworks similar to, or based on British law. Many successful cases have been won against Local developers like Emaar, Damac and Nakheel in the later court system. I also believe that these cases can be conducted in English.


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> I always agree with you True Blue, but not this time :lol:
> It is the same anywhere in the world, the people who can afford the parking fines can park anywhere! When I lived in London you saw Rolls Royces park anywhere because they could easily afford the parking fines even if they had 3 in a day! (Then they invented the wheel clam).
> In any country in the world there will always be people who can afford to pay numerous fines.
> 
> In Dubai we also have the black point system just like in any other country.
> 
> And somebody else suggested that the locals here get away with more than the expats, that I find absolutely nonsense. I am living in Dubai and I can tell you that sometimes they are even harder on the locals to teach them to behave.


I did not mean to imply they are getting away with anything. Just that certain wealthy people, who can afford to pay the fines, don't need to worry about committing the offence. Speeding is a little more serious than parking offences. Not sure how it works in Dubai but the article suggests you can collect as many speeding tickets as you like and not lose your license. In the UK if you are caught going 20mph faster than the limit then there is no fixed penalty option, you must appear in court and are likely to receive a 3 month driving ban even if it is your first offence.


----------



## Parisian Girl

_Palm Jumeirah villa rents rose 7% in Q3_
http://www.emirates247.com/property...-villa-rents-rose-7-in-q3-2012-09-19-1.476192


----------



## Parisian Girl

_Real Estate licensing rules to change soon_
http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/real-estate-licensing-rules-to-change-soon-1.1078154


----------



## MarkWass

True Blue said:


> I believe there are 2 different legal frameworks in operation in Dubai. The main Dubai Courts operate under Sharia law and are better suited to resolving disputes between Arabs/Emirates. Then there is the the courts that operate in certain free zone areas like Tecom and DIFC. These courts follow international legal frameworks similar to, or based on British law. Many successful cases have been won against Local developers like Emaar, Damac and Nakheel in the later court system. I also believe that these cases can be conducted in English.


As far as I know, that is true, although with regard to real estate disputes it depends on which adjudication route is specified in the relevant SPA - eg Dubai Court or DIAC, DIFC etc. It's normally the former (ie the main Dubai courts). If it's not specified in the SPA, then Dubai Courts is the route you have to take...


----------



## Mistermark

Pro Bono said:


> You keep whining on about how impossible it is to get justice in Dubai and how Developers are protected by influential locals.
> 
> This is simply false. By you making these incorrect statements you are serving the rogue developers of Dubai and encouraging investors to accept the status quo and not seeking justice in the courts.
> 
> I have personally won a case and received an award against a Dubai developer in excess of Dh3m and I know of several others who have too. I’m not saying it was easy, far from it. It took almost 2 years and a lot of hard work and considerable costs, but I won the case at arbitration and executed the award at court. I received back everything I paid plus compensation and costs. Legal action turned a disastrous investment into a profitable outcome for me and if more people had the guts and determination to act this way the whole UAE system would be better for it.
> 
> I have read your comments about how those who have won a case should provide evidence of it so that it can be believed. Why don’t you stump up some evidence of your conspiracy theory of locals protecting developers? I'll tell you why, because you can’t that’s why. You are just perpetuating a myth of how the law works in this region.
> 
> So in order to give you an opportunity to redeem yourself. Here is my example of how a single foreign investor with a lawyer can win a case against Emaar the biggest most influential Government owned company in Dubai
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/buyer-won-court-order-seize-emaar-offices-in-villa-row-438713.html


You should Google the term wasta used by Al Shali. I didn't make it up!

It's easy to point to people who won cases. Much harder to demonstrate that they received any compensation. Harder still to find a European who collected anything...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai residential rents up by 2-3 per cent in third quarter

Residential rent rates in Dubai continued to climb slowly over the third quarter due to a shortage in some unit types, according to a new report by Asteco.

Apartment rents have increased on average by two per cent while villa rents climbed three per cent in Dubai building on their “strong performance” from the second quarter, according to the Q3 2012 report released by the property real estate services firm Asteco. 

http://gulfnews.com/business/retail...up-by-2-3-per-cent-in-third-quarter-1.1078601


----------



## MarkWass

Pro Bono said:


> You keep whining on about how impossible it is to get justice in Dubai and how Developers are protected by influential locals.
> 
> This is simply false. By you making these incorrect statements you are serving the rogue developers of Dubai and encouraging investors to accept the status quo and not seeking justice in the courts.
> 
> I have personally won a case and received an award against a Dubai developer in excess of Dh3m and I know of several others who have too. I’m not saying it was easy, far from it. It took almost 2 years and a lot of hard work and considerable costs, but I won the case at arbitration and executed the award at court. I received back everything I paid plus compensation and costs. Legal action turned a disastrous investment into a profitable outcome for me and if more people had the guts and determination to act this way the whole UAE system would be better for it.
> 
> I have read your comments about how those who have won a case should provide evidence of it so that it can be believed. Why don’t you stump up some evidence of your conspiracy theory of locals protecting developers? I'll tell you why, because you can’t that’s why. You are just perpetuating a myth of how the law works in this region.
> 
> So in order to give you an opportunity to redeem yourself. Here is my example of how a single foreign investor with a lawyer can win a case against Emaar the biggest most influential Government owned company in Dubai
> 
> 
> *http://www.arabianbusiness.com/buyer-won-court-order-seize-emaar-offices-in-villa-row-438713.html*


Hmmm.. I assume your clients were fortunate enough (ie in the minority) to have DIFC or DIAC etc as the legal route specified for settling disputes in their SPA?


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dubai residential rents up by 2-3 per cent in third quarter
> 
> Residential rent rates in Dubai continued to climb slowly over the third quarter due to a shortage in some unit types, according to a new report by Asteco.
> 
> Apartment rents have increased on average by two per cent while villa rents climbed three per cent in Dubai building on their “strong performance” from the second quarter, according to the Q3 2012 report released by the property real estate services firm Asteco.
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/business/retail...up-by-2-3-per-cent-in-third-quarter-1.1078601


There certainly isn't a shortage of units, just a shortage of quality units with views and decent layouts. If you are lucky to fit the criteria then rents should be "creeping up". If not you may be left with an empty apartment.

Apartments in the marina with multiple parking spots are also doing well. Parking in the marina is now a real problem.


----------



## chefdude

I dug up some interesting information whilst trawling the web yesterday.

Apparently the moronic "RERA rental Index" along with its rent increase calculator is only applicable to properties leased to the existing tenant prior to January 2011. If you had a new tenant in after that time you can tell them you want to increase the rent by giving them 90 days notice prior to contract expiry.

I know lots of tenants have been wheeling this flawed calculation system out when it comes time to renew the contract but they obviously aren't aware it may not actually be applicable to them any more.

http://www.emirates247.com/property/know-your-rights-by-how-much-can-rent-be-hiked-in-dubai-2012-05-10-1.458015


----------



## UAE Investor

Dubai encouraging flippers and market chaos again

Government company as well....

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-deal-take-it-or-leave-it-2012-09-23-1.476582


----------



## unknownpleasures

This is the same stuff that was happening in the past where honest investors were caught out!



> “When I went in at around 12.45 pm, I was told that all the one-, two- and three-beds had been sold,” the investor, who was planning to buy a two-bed apartment, told Emirates 24|7.
> 
> “They first explained the payment plan and then gave me five minutes to make my decision. I decided not to buy as I didn't want a studio."
> 
> According to the investor, the booking amount was 10 per cent with the purchaser having to pay 10 per cent every six month


----------



## unknownpleasures

RERA will do nothing just like they have done in the past!.......they have all the registered developers/brokers/agencies etc and what of it?


----------



## unknownpleasures

Gee aren't most people on this thread landlords themselves, why then make a general statement about landlords being greedy as not all are one size fits all!!


----------



## True Blue

firoz bharmal said:


> What RERA will do .....?


Cancel their license! That is the only power they have as the regulator. The crimes are so serious that it's entirely a police matter from here.

What gets me is how a company director of a UAE business is allowed to empty the bank account to a foreign bank. Should that not be better controlled? Common sense tells you that a decent portion of that money must belong to creditors based in the UAE. That is where the sponsor should be required to protect those UAE creditors and should therefore be a counter signature on such a major transaction.


----------



## VR6

let me check my contract docs as i remember receiving an email reomnder to say that the next payment was due. You may be right though Shah, but how would this be implemented?


----------



## unknownpleasures

All would be good if this could occur however RERA as most claim display a non active role in all of this and do not care to do anything! This is similar to what has occurred in the past with those who have taken money for projects and disappeared and not delivered projects yet taking money and asking for more just to see if they were lucky to get more...these were all approved by RERA were the they not, the same with this lot!! You are right, it's criminal and the police should have been involved a long long time ago and perhaps if action was taken none of this sort of scamming would continue!


----------



## Javed_ali

Hi, I am interested in knowing the progress achieved in Tower 3. Kindly update if anyone has any news on the same. Also, please let me know if any initiatives have been taken towards receiving any compensation for the delay in completion. thank you


----------



## J39

DennyCrane said:


> yes DCE the slowest construction company in Dubai!


What's more, when working for Select then probably the worst too.


----------



## True Blue

DCE is not the contractor here! It is the Egyptian company CRC.


----------



## RedWayne28thfloor

True Blue said:


> DCE is not the contractor here! It is the Egyptian company CRC.


We know! people were talking about good progress here so we said it can't be DCE building it. Go back a page :cheers:


----------



## MMDXB

Hi Guys, yes correct it's been a while. So far I have no news from the Lawns however I want to share some infos and situation I face with ADCB bank. I send them an email telling the Lawns 2 is cancelled. Immediately I got a reply that they send a request for a reduction of interest and will let me know about the outcome. I thought "wow...even without asking". With this in mind I kept on hold my September payment and of course what happens is that ADCB collection department started calling where is my payment. I told them I complaint and it is on progress. However same day I got a reply from mortgage department telling me it was rejected and no chance. So I was wondering why they did not inform me ? Again collection department keeps calling and I told them I will go there this Thursday and want to talk to a higher manager as this is not acceptable. I paid in 4 years almost 1/3 in interest of the amount they lend me so far back. They insist that I'm paying and I told them I won't unless I spoke to someone in person because what will happen if I pay they won't care at all anymore. I also told them they should not forget in the end I'm still a customer for them who failed a complaint and they should handle it with a bit more care. So if any of you can advise or know a higher manager of ADCB to talk to please let me know. I know someone who is the head of an ADCB department as he was my client 4 years back, thinking of send him an email and see how it goes. Please give me any ideas.


----------



## TerryPop

A friend of ours has been directly caught up in the Marks Falcom Real estate scandal.

He had some apartments being sub let by them.

Easy signs there was a scam coming:

Marks Falcon had leased the apartments to all their tenants for *less* then they were paying him.

Marks Falcon had agreed tenancy agreements beyond their contract dates with him, some ended more then 6 months after his contract with Marks Falcon expires.


A simple audit of the above would have shown something was amiss. Paying the landlord 100 aed and sub letting for 90 aed, means something is being pre meditated.


----------



## True Blue

I wonder if the Marks Falcon plan to rent out apartments at such low rates, ultimately skewed the RERA rental index. They were renting out 2 beds in JBR (the marina zone)for 85k.


----------



## UAE Investor

True Blue said:


> Cancel their license! That is the only power they have as the regulator. The crimes are so serious that it's entirely a police matter from here.
> 
> What gets me is how a company director of a UAE business is allowed to empty the bank account to a foreign bank. Should that not be better controlled? Common sense tells you that a decent portion of that money must belong to creditors based in the UAE. That is where the sponsor should be required to protect those UAE creditors and should therefore be a counter signature on such a major transaction.


This got me thinking ..some developers who have investor disputes delays etc. all of a sudden they announce they are moving office..

My point is there moving to a free zone so they can disengage with local ,thus getting the local non involved so then they can RUN the ship as they want...

Maybe i,m not making sense but..?


----------



## hijer

*legal status*

Max12
just wondering what happen with your case?
it has been a while- so I am hoping that you won it .


----------



## AliB2012

Whats the general opinion out there.Has the market bottomed out?
It seems to me it has with even some small price increases here and there?


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> I wonder if the Marks Falcon plan to rent out apartments at such low rates, ultimately skewed the RERA rental index. They were renting out 2 beds in JBR (the marina zone)for 85k.


(@TB - I dont think so cos its not THAT big a scam, maybe a 100million dirhams- thats not enough is it?)

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Tenants are being evicted beyond the contract end dates the landlord holds with Marks Falcon- meaning rental index will eventually reset to correct level.

So my mate has to wait until his contract with MFRE finishes which he's pretty mad about.

Police said they may find *some tenants were in on it*.

One tenant tried to do a police complaint against a landlord who threw him out and the police refused to accept it- the contracts are not between them!

Still a mess and you never really know what is relly going on behind the scenes! Maybe the local partner has secret swiss bank acct haha....


----------



## Imre

TerryPop said:


> (@TB - I dont think so cos its not THAT big a scam, maybe a 100million dirhams- thats not enough is it?)


Its around 300 million dhs if not more..




TerryPop said:


> Still a mess and you never really know what is relly going on behind the scenes! Maybe the local partner has secret swiss bank acct haha....


Those people who left the country were only puppets .. anyway now only 4 companies failed but still many on the market with the same system , hopefully landlords/tenants will have more brains in the future.

Probably the last few weeks they already knew what will be happening , one of my friend just got 150K/year offer for his 2 BR in JBR , another guy got 500K offer for his Garden Home in PJ


----------



## UAE Investor

RedWayne28thfloor said:


> We know! people were talking about good progress here so we said it can't be DCE building it. Go back a page :cheers:


Site is tidy and cement looks a good colour ....not like the shite they build the point/torch out of ..

:lol:


----------



## gratta cielo

Hi we are looking into buying a 2m apt in JBR, but noticed that there nearly 1000 properties being advertised there, maybe some are out of date. Is there something wrong with JBR, not such a good investment?


----------



## a.zalaghi

Androider said:


> Marwan wants the project to be finished... so they are starting the cancellation process of the investors who have payed LESS then 75%.
> Also, contract will be changed with the payment plan... they want us to pay up to 80% of the project now and then 5%+5%+5%+5% in order for the project to go.


Thanks for your information sir.

How sure are you about this?? I was happy that we didn't have to pay until the project is finished! But I guess we need to pay to get the project going, right?


----------



## ConcernedAussie

*Sunland Group and Soheil Abedian and David Scott Brown*

http://www.cqnews.com.au/story/2012/10/01/australian-facing-bribery-charges

Sunland Group and Soheil Abedian and Sunland's executive David Brown are even in the news in Central Queensland. And, look who is being recalled to Dubai to clarify their original evidence, after their swift exit last year - David Brown and Soheil Abedian. And I can see they won't be making the effort to return to Dubai. They (and Mr Ron Eames) are already making their excuses and they are using the 'detention' of other Australians in other countries in an attempt to justify this. How about the 'detention' of Matt Joyce and Marcus Lee on charges based on allegations from Sunland executives that have been proven in an Australian Court to be nothing more than 'fabrications'.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/dubai-court-calls-sunland-executives-20120930-26tjb.html

Justice Croft, in recent Judgements handed down in the Victorian Supreme Court, criticised Mr Abedian for giving ''inconsistent and unreliable evidence in relation to the information given to the Dubai authorities and in relation to his role in that respect''.

Justice Croft ... found that the way Sunland ran its case, "the extent to which it failed in respect of all essential elements and Sunland's dealing with the Dubai authorities provides a strong basis for a finding of ulterior purpose on Sunland's part". He said there were "inconsistencies in Sunland's evidence and aspects of its submissions which are also supportive of the position that Sunland commenced or continued the proceedings [in Victoria, Australia] with wilful disregard for known facts and law" and "These discussions do, in my view, lend support to the view that these proceedings were commenced as part of Sunland's dealing with the Dubai prosecution authorities for the purpose of safeguardings its and Brown's position in Dubai."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/sunl...operty-deal-20120914-25wnk.html#ixzz282clctdC

I know there are people who subscribe to these forums who think I should not be posting this here, but, these are REAL people we are talking about. Marcus Lee and his wife have been forcibly separated from their family here in Australia for over three years now, based on allegations that Sunland have not even been able to substantiate in an Australian Court, and yet this nightmare for Marcus and his wife is continuing. Marcus was JUST DOING HIS JOB, and how many other people are living and working in Dubai in the property industry, or any other industry, who could be embroiled in a dispute or arrested or incarcerated for JUST DOING THEIR JOB.

You can find links to news articles on the matter on this website, including a link to a recent speech made by Senator Helen Kroger in the Victorian Parliament on the Australian case and on Sunland:-
http://mattjoyce.com.au/

The more people that read this, the better.


----------



## princeofpersia

Any update on handover dates? Hopefully Nakheel will not have 1 hour visual inspection for snagging like they did for Jumeirah Park.


----------



## Imre

WEST AVENUE-DUBAI MARINA: pre-launch starting in the next few days! 

Dubai Marina’s first off plan project to launch since 2008!

West Avenue, Select Group’s 9th Tower in Dubai Marina is currently at the 16th floor of the construction process and the 35 storey residential tower is expected to be at full height in quarter 1 of 2013.

The prices will be as follows: 

Studios from 675,000 AED 
1 Bedroom from 890,000 AED 
2 Bedrooms from 1,675,000 AED 

The official West Avenue payment plan is as follows: 

35,000 AED reservation deposit for studios, 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom apartments 
50,000 AED reservation deposit for penthouses and retail units 

The reservation deposit is deducted from the 2nd instalment. 

30% due on Signature of SPA
30% due 6 Months from when the contract is executed (less reservation fee paid)
40% due on completion 

The completion date is December 2013!


----------



## Josau

Prices are high for such a bad location. And we don't know, how big these units are.


----------



## jeetha

Dubai_Steve said:


>


previous layout.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Looks like this gained attention of Construction Weekly..
10 September, 2012...slight headline change!

http://www.constructionweekonline.c...i-sports-city-investors-petition-authorities/


----------



## Imre

Good news :lol:


FalconCity of Wonders

Falconcity of Wonders announced by "Taj Arabia", is an actual replication of Taj Mahal which will be larger than the original monument and will be surrounded by landscaping including the famous Mughal Gardens and architecturally themed landmark buildings.

*Dubai-based Link Global Group will develop this new landmark, which is expected to be completed by end of 2014. Falconcity of Wonders includes several historical and modern icons of architecture from around the world such as The Pyramids, The Hanging Gardens of Babylon, The Eiffel Tower, The Taj Mahal, The Great Wall of China, and The Leaning Tower of Pisa.*
A brochure available at their stand revealed the company was soon launching mixed-use real estate projects within the existing project which would include investment opportunities in apartments, hotel apartments, villas, retail and commercial space.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...e-going-up-says-dld-chief-2012-10-03-1.477775


----------



## Josau

I know jeetha, that previously floor plans have been posted, like the one above. However, I was unaware, that they were planing studios in there. Let's assume, this one bed is the smallest and cheapest they have to offer, it would come to about 1200 dhs/sqf.


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## beer51

Hi guys
When a rental contract is up for renewal with the existing tenant can the terms of the contract be changed. 
Thanks


----------



## chefdude

beer51 said:


> Hi guys
> When a rental contract is up for renewal with the existing tenant can the terms of the contract be changed.
> Thanks


Yes of course they can you just have to both agree in advance of the renewal. RERA is specifying 3 months for rent increases, but can be less if both parties agree.

Properties first rented to a tenant after 1/1/11 are not held to the RERA rental index price banding and increase restrictions.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

chefdude said:


> Yes of course they can you just have to both agree in advance of the renewal. RERA is specifying 3 months for rent increases, but can be less if both parties agree.
> 
> Properties first rented to a tenant after 1/1/11 are not held to the RERA rental index price banding and increase restrictions.


Is that really true? I rented after 1/1/11 and my agent said I was NOT allowed to increase the rent at the end of their term if they stay. 

This is what my agent said:



> "Rental increases are only permitted by the Government if the current rental rate for lease is 25% under the market value according to the Rental Index. Please visit www.rpdubai.ae for further information.
> 
> While the market is recovering and in some areas rents improving, the rents have not increased by the required 25% in order for us to legally increase the rent amount for new term.


My tenant left anyway (due to their job) and the next tenant offered 15% more, but would be useful to know if really true?


----------



## beer51

Thanks Chefdude.


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## unknownpleasures

Falconcity!!!! I can't believe this is happening! hno:hno:


----------



## Parisian Girl

Imre said:


> Good news :lol:
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...e-going-up-says-dld-chief-2012-10-03-1.477775


:lol:


----------



## dirtyharry1

As we know Select the apartments will be even smaller than the layout which is already very very small... the balcony seems to be the largest


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## chefdude

Dubai Steve here is the information.

Unsurprisingly the RERA website is somewhat misleading

http://www.emirates247.com/property...an-rent-be-hiked-in-dubai-2012-05-10-1.458015

“For properties leased prior to January 2011, no increases will be permitted if the rent is less than 25 per cent of the average rent for similar property in the same area. If it is more than 25 per cent, then there is a staggered permitted increase ranging from 5 per cent to 15 per cent.


“For those leased after January 2011, if a landlord wants to increase the rent, he has to inform the tenant at least 90 days before expiry of the current tenancy period (unless the parties agree otherwise),” he told Emirates 24|7.

To be honest I don't see a distinction between the two much anyway, why should you restrict a landlord that may have rented to a tenant almost 2 years ago over one that rented 1 year ago? How long are they going to continue to use the Index method for renewals is an issue? obviously new properties don't fall under it or new rentals.

It's already been discussed on here several times how flawed and full of holes the Index is but here are a few major gripes:-

1. Its woefully out of date with the prices even though its supposed to be updated each quarter
2. If the contract is not Ejari registered it wont appear in the data so the database is incomplete and as a result inaccurate
3. There is no distinction made between Furnished and Un-Furnished with an obvious premium on the former
4. There is no distinction between with parking or without and in JLT especially Lake Terrace that can be a 4-5k difference
5. It makes no allowance for number of cheques which can affect the rental price


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## unknownpleasures

Cityscape - 2012 






All the big wigs were there...


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://i46.tinypic.com/ua5it.jpg


And we have lift off!


----------



## Green Hornet

Richard Head said:


> Dubai is back !!!!



We hope but will take a bit more convincing.


----------



## Ahmad2012

hi All,

i wonder which the best area's are in dubai to invest right now, i mean low budget, like 500-600k AED. 

thanks


----------



## T-800

Sympathy for DEC? I've initiated legal proceedings against them, I have no respect for them. 

I referenced their website because if you look closely they have been updating it especially on Lawns 4 because it's the only project they are moving forward with. Also they have posted the approved RERA payment plans and a 'certified' progress report. About 6 months ago they had no updates except for very old photos.

Since most investors have ZERO source of information it would appear the first source to look at is the DEC website. This is why I suggested it.

If someone is in Dubai and know how to get to construction site they could possibly go see for themselves.

Read my note carefully, I'm suggesting the only reason for them to update is to use it as a 'good boy card' in courts and claim they are progressing with a project and have proposed to investors to move to this project.

So once again, no, I have no sympathy for DEC.


----------



## True Blue

TerryPop said:


> Great to hear Richard!!
> 
> We could do a few 'on the ground' experiences of the market's comeback- would be fun to share stories!


I have rented my 2 bed unfurnished in Dorrabay for 120k 3 years in a row after getting 145k in the first year. My friend just rented his 2 bed Dorrabay same layout but furnished for 145k in 1 cheque, he got offers of 150k x 4 cheques and rented it within a week. 

Some evidence that rentals are heading up again. I am guessing it has something to do with the fact that many of the towers that are now handing over are below expected levels of quality and are not as big as the earlier units to hit the market. Also some strange layouts out there!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Yes I can confirm rents in the Torch have also increased a lot over last year. 2 beds (marina facing) in the Torch are now getting offers around 110k to 115k in 1 cheque and more for 4 cheques, compared to 90k to 95k previously.

Also a 2 bed Torch recently sold for AED 1.42m


----------



## faceoffdxb

I currently have 3 units in Sports Business Tower, Sports City Dubai under contract from Axon Development which had ceased construction for over 2 years (which has since restarted) The problem being that the project is now over two and a half years in delay (projected at a further 3 years delay) and the contract with Axon Development FZC which is now in question as the project has been handed over to AlMasah ( Al Masah )International Real Estate Development LLC also owned by Mr Aboutaleb Shokrollah Talebi on investigating through RERA I find the owner Mr Talebi has another company registered with RERA called New World Investment Ltd and has a further 15 projects listed with 10 of them on hold according to RERA. Project Names are as follows: Jouri 3, Cadi 4, Jouri 1, Cadi 5, Cadi 2, Judi Palace, Jouri 6, World Wide Tower, Classic Soccer Tower, Cadi 3, Cadi 1, Jouri 4, Soraya Tower 1, Orchid Residence and Jouri 2. 
Further to the above Mr Aboutaleb Shokrollah Talebi also owns the following: Chess Tower Ltd, Romeo & Juliet Ltd, Star Developers Ltd, Marina Exclusive Ltd, Marina Breeze Ltd, Bella Vida Ltd and Sahara Living Ltd. 
With so many companies and projects on hold in today’s economic climate in Dubai I am concerned the developer will run out of money and purchasers will not hand over further monies due to lack of confidence and or progress (10 projects on hold and a starved future cash flow) The developer has breached the contract grossly in terms of delivery dates and progress, so I decided to visit both RERA and Dubai Courts to investigate litigation; after a day knocking on doors it was confirmed by both RERA and Dubai Courts there are numerous cases against Al Masah and the name is well known by Dubai Courts. 
I am looking for any information anyone can provide over their experiences and in particular a lawyers name and contact details who is familiar with AlMasah and his mass of unfinished developments and claims against them as I am genuinely feel we are heading for a crash.


----------



## OmarPERU

There was a registration for units in Downton from Emaar this mornint. It was supposed to start at 9am, but it's closed already

http://www.emaar.com/registration/

Does anyone know which units or price levels? I think they're supposed to be in Old Town, I assume it includes the Island, doesn't it?


----------



## sgn7200

T-800 said:


> Sympathy for DEC? I've initiated legal proceedings against them, I have no respect for them.
> 
> I referenced their website because if you look closely they have been updating it especially on Lawns 4 because it's the only project they are moving forward with. Also they have posted the approved RERA payment plans and a 'certified' progress report. About 6 months ago they had no updates except for very old photos.
> 
> Since most investors have ZERO source of information it would appear the first source to look at is the DEC website. This is why I suggested it.
> 
> If someone is in Dubai and know how to get to construction site they could possibly go see for themselves.
> 
> Read my note carefully, I'm suggesting the only reason for them to update is to use it as a 'good boy card' in courts and claim they are progressing with a project and have proposed to investors to move to this project.
> 
> So once again, no, I have no sympathy for DEC.


Hi T-800! Please do not take any offence of my note. After all we are all trying to help the broader investor community. At the same time we are all in the same boat which earlier on seemed to be sinking and luckily now it has come afloat and we seem to be looking at some bright light at the end of the tunnel. Now coming to the real question. On 6th October, you said you are in Lawns V. So tell us, have they finished raft foundation as their website has not been updated since August this year and looking at the website I cannot make head or tail of the real state of play. I am sure you really want to help, so please use your own instinct/resources/contacts and tell us where we stand with regard to current state of construction work at Lawns V. Cheers for the present!


----------



## Defaut

Hi all, I have contacted DEC again and they deny any cancellation of Lawns II and managed to call Abdulraheem in Dubai courts last week, all what he said is they will have eteh commity formed in November. Any ideas what to do next?? Thanks for keeping all of us updated, this is the only source of info I have!


----------



## mark.1

There are many benefits of investing in residential or commercial property in Dubai. Dubai is perhaps the most vibrant developing city in the world, a fact recognised by private and institutional investors, as well as the corporate world. Eight out of the world's largest companies now have major offices in the city, and nearly 400 of the Fortune 500 companies are represented there too.


----------



## True Blue

Nice picture of Bay Central in this article;

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-property-valuations-drop-26-in-h1-470662.html

Select Group, the biggest private developer in the Marina in terms of negative equity!

I think the figure comes from the difference between SPA prices and completed valuations as the article does state that market values have increased over the same period.


----------



## Mazda

I am not sure, but when I have problem with Property Investment Market, some body from that company, tell me that Mr Aboutaleb Talebi, is the owner of Property Investment Market.
And this if it is really true, this means, at least how I see it, there is a play, what they do or try to do, at least with me, If He is the owner of almasah, and the owner of Property Investment market, this means this was a play, playing with companys to take more money not because Property Investment Market was gone, if he is the same owner.
Also in the new contract Almasah want me, to give them, the power of ATorny, because they want to fight Property Investment Market in Court, to give me back the money that I lost with Property investment market. t
If Its true, is the same owner, of this 2 companys, for sure only that they want only to cheat me, because how go fight in court the same owner, I think more want to take my aprtment for free, after I already pay big money on it.
When I here this name, that he is the owner of Amasah, I really feel shoked.


----------



## aaa_1966

*title deeds*



mustafa1974 said:


> Dear All
> 
> Have anyone received his title deeds from Nakheel?
> 
> Are you aware of the new rule from DEWA:
> 
> It is now mandatory for all landlords to have the Title Deed of their properties issued from the Dubai Land Department in order for DEWA to register any new accounts under a tenant¹s name.
> 
> DEWA will therefore reject registering any account for any property that does not have a copy of its Title Deed. As a result, we advise all landlords who have yet to apply for their Title Deeds to proceed at the earliest. Please also note that the Title Deed is also essential in order for any landlord to generate an EJARI contract for their property, keeping in mind that EJARI contracts are also compulsory by the Real Estate Law in Dubai.


to ALL , did anyone receive their title deed? Nakheel,they never answer the phone, or reply to email with an update. i am stuck buying a unit because of the title deed even when visited Nakheel a month ago, they would not provide any clear information.


----------



## sgn7200

wissam11 said:


> I was there 2 weeks ago. Same as in the pictures. Rafter foundation done...and thats it. Lawns IV next door is coming together nicely.
> 
> I will pass by again this week and take some photos


Hello Wissam11! Thanks for the info re Lawns V. You are saying "Rafter foundation done". However, DEC is saying "Rafter foundation work is in progress". When you go there during your planned next visit, please ask the engineers present at the site whether the Rafter foundation has been certified as completed by the Architect/Consultant which in this case, as I understand it, is DIMENSIONS. Cheers for now!
P.S. Re Lawns IV, apparently, they have finished slab work to Floor 4, are they now doing block work or what exactly are they doing now?


----------



## ianthy

m3


----------



## luv2bebrown

When units at the new Address Hotel came up for sale, I thought to myself "If I had the money, I would definitely buy." Then on the day of the sale, I saw the prices that people paid. 

So yeah I guess you could say demand is definitely coming back. I only hope that it's demand for home ownership and legitimate rental investment, rather than home flipping.


----------



## Imre

luv2bebrown said:


> I only hope that it's demand for home ownership and legitimate rental investment, rather than home flipping.


Many buyers only flippers/short term speculators so its just getting bubble again..


----------



## Sportmikkel

This is going to be a residential tower now. 

It should sell very well given that it will have fantastic views over Jumeirah Islands.


----------



## isicman

sgn7200 said:


> Hi Skinnygirl and Axe2grind! Agreed the main problem area is DP. However, DEWA are equally to blame as they are not letting any construction work in Culture Village to re-commence for want of electrical loads. Today's press reports do mention DEWA having entered into a major contract with Siemens which may perhaps assist in the problem facing developers of projects in Culture Village. Shall appreciate your views on this matter.


I wouldn't blame DEWA this time.
Most of the construction sites are built by running on generators in this country.
The problem would come later if the power isn't connected before handover to the people who purchased apartments or shops.


----------



## sgn7200

isicman said:


> I wouldn't blame DEWA this time.
> Most of the construction sites are built by running on generators in this country.
> The problem would come later if the power isn't connected before handover to the people who purchased apartments or shops.


I appreciate your views. My information is that in order to proceed with construction work beyond Ground Level, the developer is required to obtain a permit from TECOM. However, TECOM will not issue the required permit unless the appication for permit is accompanied by a No Objection Certificate issued by DEWA. This No Objection Certificate is not forthcoming from DEWA because electrical load bearing factors have not been agreed in DP's approved plan for Culture Village. This sounds more like chicken and egg situation. This smacks like a big political conspiracy aimed at fooling innocent investors. This time round, my sympathies are with the developer. If he is allowed to proceed with building of the superstructure with his own generators, most of the developers would do. This makes economic sense as having built to the ground level, it is in his own interest to build the superstructure, pocket his profit and move on. As almost all of the construction activity in Culture Village has come to a virtual halt, there must be more to it than meets the eye. I shall appreciate if someone can simplify the matters for me. Cheers for now!


----------



## anacreon

anika.khan said:


> 90% developers in Dubai have run away or are not building. I have investments in so many other projects in Dubai and Ajman, where the developer is nowhere to be found, these guys are still here. Danial Schon is still trying for Schon Properties to continue building with little inflow coming in from buyers that is no reason to bash the guy individually. He has clean intentions and is proceeding in positive manner.


I think that you are being too kind to him. It is in part his business acumen that has led to the current position - too much of the money from initial deposits for units in Dubai Lagoon was diverted into buying land for other projects or spent on unrelated matters, rather than on delivering this project!


----------



## SagarDubai

Friends, I had been to the Lawns 4 and Lawns 5 sites. The bad news is that work at Lawns 4 has stopped. No one was there at all. This was shocking and very dissapointing for me. Not sure why they stopped or when they are going to resume!! I will try to check with DEC for an answer. 

At Lawns 5 site... I saw about 5-7 workers working on some steel frames on the raft foundation. They seemed to take their own sweet time doing what they were doing. 

The strange part is that all other developments around where construction was started is now going on on full swing...and these people have stopped their work!!

Guys, these DEC people are sitting on our money and taking their own sweet time. We are losing on our rent and the interest that we are paying to the bank. Big bunch of unprofessional crooks. I suggest you all start calling them and seek for answrs. I will do it too. Put pressure and they may start again. If we go to RERA .... RERA will ask us to go to the court!! RERA has no teeth. Pls suggest what we should do. DEC are keeping us in the dark. The common pattern I have noticed that its usually these developers of the subcontinent are like these.... sit on people's money or run away with their money !!! Sorry if this may offend people of the subcontinent.. but more or les this is the fact... 

Pls feel to suggest what needs to be done now!!


----------



## porshe911

SagarDubai said:


> Friends, I had been to the Lawns 4 and Lawns 5 sites. The bad news is that work at Lawns 4 has stopped. No one was there at all. This was shocking and very dissapointing for me. Not sure why they stopped or when they are going to resume!! I will try to check with DEC for an answer.
> 
> At Lawns 5 site... I saw about 5-7 workers working on some steel frames on the raft foundation. They seemed to take their own sweet time doing what they were doing.
> 
> The strange part is that all other developments around where construction was started is now going on on full swing...and these people have stopped their work!!
> 
> Guys, these DEC people are sitting on our money and taking their own sweet time. We are losing on our rent and the interest that we are paying to the bank. Big bunch of unprofessional crooks. I suggest you all start calling them and seek for answrs. I will do it too. Put pressure and they may start again. If we go to RERA .... RERA will ask us to go to the court!! RERA has no teeth. Pls suggest what we should do. DEC are keeping us in the dark. The common pattern I have noticed that its usually these developers of the subcontinent are like these.... sit on people's money or run away with their money !!! Sorry if this may offend people of the subcontinent.. but more or les this is the fact...
> 
> Pls feel to suggest what needs to be done now!!


 dear SagarDubai 
you are optimistic dont waist your time or money with DEC .


----------



## Monument

rags said:


> Gourmet tower, Dubai Marina
> ----------------------------
> 
> Does anyone know what is happening with this? Unused and unoccupied, this is an eyesore.


It's being eaten.


----------



## sgn7200

SagarDubai said:


> Friends, I had been to the Lawns 4 and Lawns 5 sites. The bad news is that work at Lawns 4 has stopped. No one was there at all. This was shocking and very dissapointing for me. Not sure why they stopped or when they are going to resume!! I will try to check with DEC for an answer.
> 
> At Lawns 5 site... I saw about 5-7 workers working on some steel frames on the raft foundation. They seemed to take their own sweet time doing what they were doing.
> 
> The strange part is that all other developments around where construction was started is now going on on full swing...and these people have stopped their work!!
> 
> Guys, these DEC people are sitting on our money and taking their own sweet time. We are losing on our rent and the interest that we are paying to the bank. Big bunch of unprofessional crooks. I suggest you all start calling them and seek for answrs. I will do it too. Put pressure and they may start again. If we go to RERA .... RERA will ask us to go to the court!! RERA has no teeth. Pls suggest what we should do. DEC are keeping us in the dark. The common pattern I have noticed that its usually these developers of the subcontinent are like these.... sit on people's money or run away with their money !!! Sorry if this may offend people of the subcontinent.. but more or les this is the fact...
> 
> Pls feel to suggest what needs to be done now!!


I agree this is not a positive news. However, we must not jump to conclusions because of one incident. We have shown our patience for years and we must not act in haste. The thing to do is to call DEC and first find out what they have to say. There may be a valid reason for them to have stopped working. Their loss now will be greater than ours. Reason being what they have collected from us has been to a greater degree invested on construction and what we owe them now is their profits. It would therefore make sense for them to finish quickly and pocket their profis. To cut the argument short, we must find out FIRST the reason for this stoppage. Talk to workers, talk to the supervisors, talk to DEC and talk to whosoever reliable person you can and then report to the FORUM for further input. Cheers for now.


----------



## ps500

*Gourmet Tower*



rags said:


> Gourmet tower, Dubai Marina
> ----------------------------
> 
> Does anyone know what is happening with this? Unused and unoccupied, this is an eyesore.


One floor of the Gourmet Tower is currently being fitted out, I was told by the workers that it will be a restaurant and bar opening in approximately 4 months.


----------



## Josau

ps500 said:


> One floor of the Gourmet Tower is currently being fitted out, I was told by the workers that it will be a restaurant and bar opening in approximately 4 months.


^^Interesting. It could be the beginning of more.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai landlords defy 5 per cent rent cap*



chefdude said:


> Properties first rented to a tenant after 1/1/11 are not held to the RERA rental index price banding and increase restrictions.


Rera prohibits raising the rent by more than 5 per cent if the rent is more than 25 per cent below the market rate. Landlords must also give 90 days' notice of any proposed rent increase, and the rent may be raised only if both parties agree. If the do not, the landlord must ask Rera for a review.

"The notion that the landlord can kick out the tenant and fix an arbitrary rent at their own discretion as they see fit - that's incorrect," Ms Yamalova said.

"Basically, the tenant does not have to do anything. The default rule is that the same terms of the original contract automatically apply on renewal," she said.

"If the tenant does not agree and the landlord insists on the increase then the landlord must take it to the Rent Committee, and whoever files with the Rent Committee has to pay a 3.5 per cent filing fee."

Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/dubai-landlords-defy-5-per-cent-rent-cap#ixzz2AF99NhQF


----------



## datum1m

Under the terms of the sales contracts all investors will have now paid 70% with no more to pay until completion.

The developer has failed to meet its completion date, they cannot rely on the Force Majeure clause with regard to power and drainage not being in place by the master developer for causing the late handover of our units because the building is not complete within the contract period. 

Most of the M&E commissioning can be done using the power supply for the construction works. The drainage for the building could be taken to the last manhole where a connection to the main sewage system is to take place. Not until the developer is at this stage of construction can they claim a delay against the master developer. 

If they were at this stage then any compensation claim we investors would have for late completion of our Apartment could be offset by the developer by a claim they would have against the master developer.

However I cannot see how they can make any claim at this stage against the master developer when they are years behind their original completion date.

How many investors are willing to pay the 30% balance on completion when they have had their money tied up for so many years in a project (some having had to pay finance charges on it) Are any of you prepared to ask for a reduction in the cost of the Apartment due to late completion?


----------



## DennyCrane

*west Avenue*

Don't worry....the esteemed Select say it will be ready next year and you know how good they are at timelines hno:


----------



## ianthy

Hi 
Does anyone have first hand experience of the Dubai Arbitration process - how long does it take, is it fair, judgements against Deevelopers how are they enforced?
Also where can i get more information.

Thks for the advice.


----------



## torchowner

DennyCrane said:


> Don't worry....the esteemed Select say it will be ready next year and you know how good they are at timelines hno:


You forgot to mention "_quality_" provided of the finished product!!!:lol::laugh::sarcasm::hilarious


----------



## bister

Hi,

I won my Case against ACI in Supreme Court also and we shall now continue with execution and attachment of all ACI assets, including their land bank. Whether that will influence Dubai Star remains to be seen, probably not since RERA for some reason is protecting ACI from the impact of a Supreme Court ruling. Really peculiar sense of priority.


----------



## Pleth

ianthy said:


> Hi
> Does anyone have first hand experience of the Dubai Arbitration process - how long does it take, is it fair, judgements against Deevelopers how are they enforced?
> Also where can i get more information.
> 
> Thks for the advice.


Yes good question. *Did anybody ever win a case? Did anybody ever get their money back??*


----------



## agod

I have been in Contact with an Owner who has taken the Developer to Court over late Delivery, it has taken him 2 Years, the Contract stated estimated time of delivery June 2009, he used the The Legal Group as his Lawyers, he lost his case, the Judge said "because the contract stated Estimated and not a firm date" they could in fact delay it as long as they liked, I was also going to take the same company to court but luckily I waited for the outcome of his case.

The best we can all hope for, is that business comes back to Dubai, and the demand returns, and that these, on hold properties finally get built, and we can get them rented out.

A


----------



## xingu

Does anyone know if you can register a 9 month lease with Ejari or does it have to be 12 months?


----------



## TerryPop

*market update*

Had a chat with a Brit 'investor' buddy of ours.

He was saying for the first time since the crisis they have managed to rent out offices in JLT at over 100 aed per square foot!

The market is jumping people..... hope it does not go too crazy!


----------



## diku

TerryPop said:


> Had a chat with a Brit 'investor' buddy of ours.
> 
> He was saying for the first time since the crisis they have managed to rent out offices in JLT at over 100 aed per square foot!
> 
> The market is jumping people..... hope it does not go too crazy!


Yep got 20% increase from new tenant as well (BUT with new furniture as well ...)


----------



## UAE Investor

Hi rob..

They will be after more payments any time now...:lol:

:cheers:

Ok to post pics below ?

http://www.skyscraperlist.com/showthread.php?511


----------



## Rob Timpie

Yeah no problem, I received these pics from Memon.

Hopefully the tower goes up rapidly now... :banana:


----------



## abf

*update*

Any details as to who has taken over the project or the approval under Tanmia is Wind developers re starting the project


----------



## Moonwalk

spindrifter said:


> Guys
> 
> I have taken Aristocrat star to arbitration and have won my case.
> 
> They made absolutely no attempt to counter the dispute - I think it is because there is no one here.
> 
> My lawyer is currently checking if there is any money in the escrow account.
> 
> I will post again onse i find out





Hello, is there any update regarding your money back from aristocrat?


----------



## A Almarzooqi

alik100 said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> has anyone succeeded to get his money back?
> I paid 20% deposit on 2008 like most of you.
> 
> has anyone visited the site recently?
> if so, please tell me what you have seen there.
> 
> 
> *هذا الكلام موجة للمسؤولين في الامارات:*
> 
> عيب عليكم يا جماعة تاخذون فلوس الناس و تتركونهم هكذا, اكثر هؤلاء هم ناس عاديين ادخروا طوال سنين كي يستثمروها في بلدكم. عيب و حرام عليكم تسرقون اموالهم, خاصة انكم ناس اصحاب ملايين و لستم فقراء!
> 
> سمعتكم صارت زفت و اصبحتم مكروهين بسبب ممارساتكم الجشعة و بسبب هذه الحرمنة المكشوفة.
> 
> الا يوجد فيكم رجلآ شريفآ يرجع حقوق الناس!
> 
> اما صاحب المشروع وهو الشيخ عيسى فلا ادري ما اقول عليه.



i totally agree , may Alllah help all the people who where cheated or their money never went back and gives all Oppressors what they deserve


----------



## xingu

xingu said:


> Does anyone know if you can register a 9 month lease with Ejari or does it have to be 12 months?


Anyone?


----------



## diku

xingu said:


> Anyone?


Once i have asked for 6 months for known agencies and they refused..... If must be 12 month.... Still to be verified by RERA


----------



## SagarDubai

Called DEC customer service and enquired about the construction status. They told me that the work is going on!!. On telling them that there is NO work going on... they pretended not knowing about it!!!. Come on how is this possible!!!! This is bull-shit. They are a bunch of bull shitters and liars!! They are just sitting on our money, using delay dallying tacktics!!. This is such a f...ing tourture dealing with this bunch of unprofessional crooks!! Invested so much of money and in return.....no peace of mind!!

One of youll did mention on this blog that DEC is famous for starting and stopping work!! How true !! Its such a BIG mistake buying from them. But again all this happend during the "offplan sales". I did not have any reference or feedback which could have helped me take an informed decision!! 

Friend, I want to know: 
1) What happens next ? Can they just leave it like this for ever ??
2) whats are our Rights as an unit owner
3) Will RERA intervene if we complain to them or they will just ask us to go to court??
4) Whats the Law in such cases!!

Pls suggest something that we can do together against these crooks. I suggets that we should keep hounding them with calls every day and build pressure!!

For people who are planning to buy an apt in Dubai... my advise is that DO NOT BUY ANYTHING WITH DEC !!!


----------



## W40arx

Bister, I'm very dubious about your legitimacy! Judging by all your posts, you are either lying or the most unsuccessful and most unfortunate investor to have lived!

All, please take note that there has been new communication regarding a revised payment plan...just I case you hadn't received it.


----------



## yomura

Any idea what will be the rental for a 5 bedroom Villa in this community. I own a Quortaj type villa and the Type is B. It is a beautiful villa with backside opening to a small garden. The size of the villa is 4561 SFT and the plot size is about 6000 SFT . 

I want to rent this immediately. Can anybody guide me with the running rents in this community.


----------



## bister

W40, what makes you doubt my legitimacy? Is it unique to have won a Court Case against ACI? Am the only investor that have been burned by ACI? The accusations you make are serious so please be specific to what points you are questioning and I shall address them.


----------



## ashram8

for the new payment plan. What guarantee do we have that we will not lose more money with ACI? if some of us pay and they take this money to proceed with construction and the rest dont pay, we are left with the same situation again but with more money lost. 
On what legal grounds can ACI dictate new payment plan. And on what grounds can they change a contract claiming the new terms are mandatory. 

what can they legally do to investors who paid their full installments as per a legal contract but will now refuse to pay new installments. i am not a legal expert, but i doubt they can do anything to them. 

I am pro changing the installment plan to save the investment, but i think we need to get any guarantee from RERA of any sort that we will not lose more money. I do agree its our only chance.


----------



## W40arx

Fully agree with you ashram...guarantees of some sort need to be in place. Is there any local investors that can follow this up for us?


----------



## Ahmed N

Dear Investors

I agree that RERA should give us some peace of mind with the monies we are requested to pay. However, i have been told that there are external investors ready to invest into Dubai Star. so those that do not pay, will default and then their units will be sold to other investors - with NO REFUND, then they would have to go to court to get their money back from ACI. The project will still complete with the investors who have paid and the new investors.

Its it legal, are they allowed to do this - that I dont have an answer to.

I know I will be paying my installment, and I have confidence in the new Investor Comittee and Mr Marwan, from RERA who has put him name to this project in getting this completed. 

We have seen steady but slow progress in the construction of Dubai Star, where has this money come from, its Mr Marwan who is supporting this, but he cannot carry on without funds, and thats whay a new payment plan has been put together - to see that the project is completed.

The plan is when the investors PAY, then the external and internal works will commence, so we will see progress as time goes on, depending on this work, then next payment will be due.

The 85% they are asking for, the money is being paid into an escrow account.

Thats all I can share with you for know.

The comittee is there to answer any questions, so if you want to please e-mail/ speak to them.


----------



## Scailer

Miss Laneous said:


> I don't know the current address.
> 
> 1. Contracts Manager Nizar Al Qutob
> "Nizar Qutob" <[email protected]> Mob:+971 50 1002485
> Аbyaar Real Estate development - U.A.E. P.O. Box 115657 Dubai, United Arab Emirates.
> Tel: +97144232109	Fax: +97144232150
> Mob1:+971 50 2592909
> 
> 2. The second person survived after the crisis: «ahamed» <[email protected]>
> 
> They still use the same office in Souk Al Bahar, but the Company' name changed.


----------



## Scailer

building1 said:


> Ask them to give you a credit note for your properties. You can sell the credit notes easily. I know villa owners who need to do the handover payments and are happy to buy your credit notes with a small discount.


They told me: No more credit notes...


----------



## ashram8

Dear ahmed n

Thanks for your comforting email. I think its yet another risky transaction we unwillingly maybe compelled to participate in. Initially in the meeting they said that they will ask for 5 percent not 10 when they reach floor 40 not immediately. Anyway can u pls post the email contact of the committee if you have it


----------



## UAE Investor

Most of the ‘Western World’ still talks about Abu Dhabi having to come to Dubai’s rescue during the 2008 financial crisis. $10 billion provided by its super-wealthy neighbour. Needed to essentially ‘save’ Dubai. Well Dubai’s recovery, very evident in particular over the past 12 months during which all critical economic feeds have surprised the critics, is almost complete. This month Dubai announced that it was ready, and able, to fully repay Abu Dhabi. Maybe now those anti-Dubai ‘experts’ can stop talking about all the wonderful assets that Dubai had to sell or mortgage to Abu Dhabi. Case over and complete. Dubai is now back will a significantly reduced debt and a AA debt (long and short term) rating. So PLEASE don’t listen to the grim-reapers who seem to take perverse satisfaction from mis-informing us on the various trophy Dubai assets that were sold to Abu Dhabi as part of the ‘rescue’.
The Dubai canal project is back on. As one would expect the recovery in the Dubai economy and property market has resulted in some of the old projects being resurrected. And so AED 1 billion has been allocated to bring the canal through Business Bay – adding to the appeal of this location and confirming its status as the Central Business District of Dubai. I bet you are now all wondering HOW did Dubai recover so quickly from the mess it was in. I guess the answer is that it was not really in the mess that many suggested to us in the first place

http://homethoughtsfromdubai.com/


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> ^^ Nah, it is most probably for more practical construction related reasons, probably to match the technical drawings


You should check the reputation of this company who are responsible for Dolce Vita and KPM Tower to name just a few. They changed the floor numbers clearly to misrepresent the progress to Rera. 

They are not far away from Dolce Vita height so soon the work will stop and the crane will be removed from site!! Or am I just being a pessimist? hno:


----------



## Pleth

Thank you UAE Investor.
It is strange that the Land Department have taken possess of the many millions (billions) from the Escrow accounts of the cancelled projects. Even without telling the investors that their money is no longer on their Escrow account.

I was certainly shocked to find out by chance that my money were no longer in the Islamic Escrow account 2 years ago. My project was cancelled but I have not received any of my money back!
I thought an Escrow account is a safe account, but certainly not.


----------



## UAE Investor

When we pay back AB.... can we go back to calling the burj Dubai AS apposed to the burj khalifa ...:nuts:


----------



## UAE Investor

Pleth said:


> Thank you UAE Investor.
> It is strange that the Land Department have taken possess of the many millions (billions) from the Escrow accounts of the cancelled projects. Even without telling the investors that their money is no longer on their Escrow account.
> 
> I was certainly shocked to find out by chance that my money were no longer in the Islamic Escrow account 2 years ago. My project was cancelled but I have not received any of my money back!
> I thought an Escrow account is a safe account, but certainly not.


:cheers:

Escrow accounts only started in 2007 ...so most developers had helped them selves up to that point.. 

Stream-point seem to have a way of juggling the percentages regards to completion milestones in Developers favour also,and still do.

Its all right having regulation in place...but if its all open to "who you know type corruption" then.... ?


----------



## True Blue

UAE Investor said:


> When we pay back AB.... can we go back to calling the burj Dubai AS apposed to the burj khalifa ...:nuts:


I think you are getting a little carried away with some minor snips of miss-information. Why is Dubai supposedly repaying AD first? Dubai and AD are part of the same country, so repaying a debt to yourself first would send out a bad message to other countries that are owed Billions by UAE. The AD bail out was used to prevent Dubai defaulting on its obligations to other countries. These debts are still ongoing.

There was a TV news cast a few evenings ago covering the UK Prime Ministers visit to Dubai. During that report they stated that the UK funded the construction of the Metro. Previous reports stated that the UK assisted with funding the Burj Khalifa and that the French are funding the Tram line. We also know that contractors and investors in Nakheel are owed Billions worldwide. There are serious problems with delays on Palm Jum and Palm JA is a non starter at the moment.

Things are starting to look better but there is a massive way still to go before Dubai is out of the woods.


----------



## ianthy

J39 said:


> Sitting in the pool at Silverene watching the building work at wWst Avenue.
> As can be clearly seen Imre's photos, the standard of workmanship leaves much to be desired.
> Is it just me, or are some of the balconies not level ?


It's the usual Select standard - shoddy and rough. This developer really can not produce a quality finish and it will only get worse as the development goes on. They seem to loose control of the basic finish and the end product is poor tiling, cheap kitchens and chaotic handover process. They simply concentrate on taking the profit or some would say robbing investors. I thought this type of developer was finished in Dubai but it seems the revival in property market has allowed the snake oil sales men to come back into business.


----------



## Josau

Right True Blue:
Just go to the "old" Almasah Int. website and you find all these "failed" projects:
Dolce Vita, KPM Tower, My Tower and more...
http://almasahint.com/old/
When going to their "new" site, you won't see Dolce Vita anymore???!!!
http://almasahint.com/index.php/projects/
I don't know, who Almasah is really, I only know, they have been greatly involved with swapping from failed Ajman projects to their projects in Dubai like Dolce Vita, My Tower etc. so basically swapping from one disaster to another one.


----------



## W40arx

I WILL be paying the rest of the balance as per payment plan that RERA will be issuing. I don't think I can afford to throw away £100,000+ that i have already paid! 

Positivity is what is needed here and by the grace of God, InshAllah, we will have our properties.


----------



## Rafbor

Hello All, 

I am not a resident in Dubai but own a unit in the marina, which is rented out. I have not been to the UAE for 3 years and am out of touch with the market. Is it a good time, in your opinion, to sell or should I wait and see?

I know that no of you have a crystal ball but opinions welcomed.


----------



## torchowner

Quote:
Originally Posted by J39 
Sitting in the pool at Silverene watching the building work at wWst Avenue.
As can be clearly seen Imre's photos, the standard of workmanship leaves much to be desired.
Is it just me, or are some of the balconies not level ? 




ianthy said:


> It's the usual Select standard - shoddy and rough. This developer really can not produce a quality finish and it will only get worse as the development goes on. They seem to loose control of the basic finish and the end product is poor tiling, cheap kitchens and chaotic handover process. They simply concentrate on taking the profit or some would say robbing investors. I thought this type of developer was finished in Dubai but it seems the revival in property market has allowed the snake oil sales men to come back into business.


Are you folks talking about the so called largest private "rip off" Developer in Dubai Marina? Have you not seen the pretty photograps of what the building is going to look earlier on this site? Anybody who falls for this trick, again and again, needs to have his head examined!:nuts:


----------



## shoaibniyazi

*Arabian Ranches Facebook Group*

http://www.facebook.com/groups/ArabianRanches/


----------



## PrincessTower

This is a joke! why would you ever buy select in second row with theses prices, and the damn this isn't even ready? you get full marina view for this price tag and completed. mental.

Studios from 675,000 AED 
1 Bedroom from 890,000 AED 
2 Bedrooms from 1,675,000 AED


----------



## HPDubai

*6 Month Multi Entry Visa*

So this is what we have been waiting for ?
To enjoy a property a residence visa is a must, therefore still waiting for progress on this.


----------



## firoz bharmal

I got this from today's newspaper..........!


----------



## Tony 90

HPDubai said:


> *6 Month Multi Entry Visa*
> 
> So this is what we have been waiting for ?
> To enjoy a property a residence visa is a must, therefore still waiting for progress on this.



http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/government/uae-amends-visit-visa-rules-1.1101864

I really hope this is true without any strings attached and your property can be below the 1 million AED.


----------



## HPDubai

Tony: a multi entry visa is of no practical use.
Only a residence visa gives you: PO box, telephone, credit card and car ownership.


----------



## Josau

HPDubai said:


> Tony: a multi entry visa is of no practical use.
> Only a residence visa gives you: PO box, telephone, credit card and car ownership.


I guess it is of some use to nationals, who cannot obtain a 30 days tourist visa upon arrival and who need to reapply for a new visa every time they leave the territory, even just for one day to Doha or Muscat.


----------



## PrincessTower

HPDubai said:


> Tony: a multi entry visa is of no practical use.
> Only a residence visa gives you: PO box, telephone, credit card and car ownership.



so you are saying the only use of a visa is PO box, telephone, credit card and car ownership?


----------



## axe2grind

*AWARD FOR SLOWEST PROJECT GOES TO*



skinnygirl said:


> ENSHAA Wins Prestigious Arabian Property Awards
> 
> Palazzo Versace Dubai wins the best development award
> 21st Dubai, 2012
> 
> ENSHAA PSC, a developer of premium quality projects and leading hospitality service provider, received several awards for their landmark developments, Palazzo Versace Dubai and the D1 Tower in three separate categories of the 2012 edition of the prestigious Arabian Property Awards.
> 
> ENSHAA accepted the awards during the Awards Gala of the International Property Awards’ Property Summit 2012 – Arabia and Africa held at the One & Only Royal Mirage, Dubai, on the 18th of October. The event was attended by presidents, CEOs, managing directors, chairmen and other decision makers in the property sector.
> 
> Speaking about the Awards, Raza Jafar, CEO of ENSHAA, commented, “We are pleased to accept this award. ENSHAA prides itself on the excellence of its projects and it is highly gratifying to see our commitment to the highest standards of quality being recognised.
> 
> In a city well known for innovation and progression, both the D1 Tower and Palazzo Versace Dubai are prominent projects that are actively raising the bar in terms of excellence and execution. I also want to congratulate the dedicated team from ENSHAA and our highly committed consultants, advisors and contractors whose unwavering efforts continue to be a key ingredient to our success.”
> 
> Developed by ENSHAA, the Palazzo Versace Dubai Hotel and Condominiums won awards in the Development – Multiple Units, Dubai and Interior Design – Apartment, Dubai categories. Located in the heart of Dubai’s new cultural hub, Culture Village, Palazzo Versace takes the beauty, the luxury, and the opulence for which the Versace name is famous and envelops residents and guests in an ambience that is pure Versace.
> 
> The D1 Tower, a luxurious 80-storey high-rise tower uniquely positioned on the Dubai Creek and adjacent to the Palazzo Versace Dubai in Culture Village, won an award in Residential High-rise Development, Dubai category. The luxury development’s design fuses rich Middle Eastern heritage with the latest technology, quality and modernity.
> 
> The Arabian Property Awards are part of the long established International Property Awards and its award winners’ logo is recognised as a symbol of excellence throughout the global industry.
> 
> Later this year, ENSHAA along with other high scoring winners from the Arabian Property Awards will compete against other winning companies from Asia Pacific, Europe, the Americas and Africa to find the ultimate World’s Best in each category.


All these awards mean absolutely nothing if its over 3 years behind its planned completion date and fast heading into 4 years delayed.

Being ever so knowledgeable about PV please let us all know when is the completion and handover date?

The only award it justly deserves is slowest construction project in the world. The pyramids were built quicker than this project.

Too much talk and back slapping and not enough action.

Probably win the award for the worst treatment of its investors but whose counting!!!!


----------



## biyadoo

*DEWA account question*

Not sure if this has been asked before - searched the forums but couldn't find anything:

I have a DEWA account as a landlord for a unit; now the unit will be let and the tenant will transfer the account on his name.

What will happen to the AED 1000 security deposit?
Will DEWA refund it back?


----------



## True Blue

biyadoo said:


> Not sure if this has been asked before - searched the forums but couldn't find anything:
> 
> I have a DEWA account as a landlord for a unit; now the unit will be let and the tenant will transfer the account on his name.
> 
> What will happen to the AED 1000 security deposit?
> Will DEWA refund it back?


I'm sure Dewa customer service would answer your question. They will refund the balance of your security deposit if you go in person to one of their payment centres. You will need all the various proofs of ID, bills etc.

I just tend to leave it lying until the tenant vacates then there is no drama transferring the account back to my name. Just make sure your departing tenant has paid all his bills up to date as I got caught with that one when my new tenant went to register they refused until the previous arrears were paid. Guess who had to foot the bill, and I had already returned the rental security deposit


----------



## True Blue

Out of the Blue I am starting to receive emails from agents asking if my 1 bed in The Marina is available for rent as they have many requests for that building. Other people are reporting a 20% increase in rent this year so it seems the market has picked up suddenly. I had a look on the internet and I see 1 beds in similar developments like Marina Promenade being advertised at 120k.

Was wondering if we are heading for another bubble or if tenants are unhappy with the smaller 1 beds that are being delivered from most new developments in the marina now. Maybe its the tram works that are driving them out and making them look around for a tram free zone.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> Out of the Blue I am starting to receive emails from agents asking if my 1 bed in The Marina is available for rent as they have many requests for that building. Other people are reporting a 20% increase in rent this year so it seems the market has picked up suddenly. I had a look on the internet and I see 1 beds in similar developments like Marina Promenade being advertised at 120k.
> 
> Was wondering if we are heading for another bubble or if tenants are unhappy with the smaller 1 beds that are being delivered from most new developments in the marina now. Maybe its the tram works that are driving them out and making them look around for a tram free zone.


I also got such emails for the Torch.










Yes those Silverene 1 beds are a bit cramped.


----------



## biyadoo

True Blue said:


> I'm sure Dewa customer service would answer your question. They will refund the balance of your security deposit if you go in person to one of their payment centres. You will need all the various proofs of ID, bills etc.
> 
> I just tend to leave it lying until the tenant vacates then there is no drama transferring the account back to my name. Just make sure your departing tenant has paid all his bills up to date as I got caught with that one when my new tenant went to register they refused until the previous arrears were paid. Guess who had to foot the bill, and I had already returned the rental security deposit


Thanks TB. So I understand it is possible to keep my (landlord) account "dormant" and keep the security deposit on my name, while the tenant opens another "active" account for the premises and keep paying the bills for the consumption. Sounds like a reasonable solution as I am not in Dubai and would prefer not to have to travel just to get the refund. I also raised an enquiry to DEWA customer services..


----------



## True Blue

^^Could just be that the person below you likes their a/c cranked right up just because it isn't metered. Cold surfaces will cause condensation when you have warm moisture laden air in your apartment.


----------



## jane18

Some one pls help me,, I have flat in Al Saqran which Al Masah is saying that they have sold that flat to some one as we have not agreed on the rates earlier..
Now he is offering me new unit with higher price,,
Please guide me,, what shld i do ?? 
I'm not even sure that they will construct the tower...any body elses has signed the new contract with them..do they have registered that new unit in RERA, taking the amount in excrow account...
Pls reply asap...thanks


----------



## agod

Oh Dear, a huge fire in the Tamweel tower in JLT tonight, all the Roof has gone, and they are still fighting it around the other side, looks as though it started from half way up, I hope there is no loss of life, but it looks bad, very bad.

Al.


----------



## desertweasel

these fires are raising major issues about the cladding and fire fighting expertise.
A huge concern to all of us who live here look in the video below to see blazing material pouring down the side of the tower.
As I came to work this morning it is still fully ablaze 5 hours after it started.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/major-fire-at-1am-guts-jlt-s-tamweel-tower-residents-huddled-on-streets-in-despair-2012-11-18-1.483506


----------



## AppleMac

desertweasel said:


> these fires are raising major issues about the cladding and fire fighting expertise.


coming so soon after the TECOM fire I would suspect that pretty soon the flammable cladding will be outlawed - no help to those many buildings already built with dangerous cladding though. hno:


----------



## Josau

I am wondering, what the insurance situate is.
After all people have invested in this building. Do all Dubai shared property buildings have insurance? Or did these people's investment just burn away?
Every time there is a fire in Dubai, I wonder about this.
Also, to stop using inflammable cladding now is a bit late as it seems the whole "new Dubai" was built with these materials. Would it make sense to change the cladding of existing buildings? Would this be feasible?


----------



## VCollaborator

desertweasel said:


> these fires are raising major issues about ... fire fighting expertise.


I have heard and I think that Dubai Civil Defence is amongst the best in the world-that is technologically wise and response wise.

The below article also suggests that affected residents were happy with their response.

www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/m...ents-let-back-in-to-homes-2012-11-18-1.483609


----------



## diku

Josau said:


> I am wondering, what the insurance situate is.
> After all people have invested in this building. Do all Dubai shared property buildings have insurance? Or did these people's investment just burn away?
> Every time there is a fire in Dubai, I wonder about this.
> Also, to stop using inflammable cladding now is a bit late as it seems the whole "new Dubai" was built with these materials. Would it make sense to change the cladding of existing buildings? Would this be feasible?


I dont know much about insurance in this building... BUT one of insurance company's stock is down by 10% Today in DFM. (Even Dubai Financial Market is down by 1% only)


----------



## Josau

diku said:


> I dont know much about insurance in this building... BUT one of insurance company's stock is down by 10% Today in DFM. (Even Dubai Financial Market is down by 1% only)


^^ I looked it up for my building's annual budget and there is well a building replacement insurance and a liability insurance. I guess each building must have this.


----------



## Josau

*from Kipp report website*

Tamweel Tower burns: still not a ticking time bomb?

Why is the UAE using flammable cladding materials on buildings that have been banned in other countries for 30 years?
November 18, 2012 6:01 by M. Aldalou
When Kipp rolled in our offices this morning there were two unusual ‘trending topics’ on Twitter; JLT and Tamweel Tower.
On any given day, a residential tower would hardly ever make the list of trending conversations between Twitter users in the UAE – as it is almost usually dominated by the likes of #Dubai, #JustinBieber, #ThingsIHateAbout you and so on. On this day, it did make the list because between the hours of 2 to 6 am this morning, the 34-storey building was engulfed in flames.
A resident tells Kipp that firefighters arrived at the scene quite swiftly but even by then, the damage was done. Large pieces of fiery debris were falling from the charred building, damaging several cars as well as the surrounding landscape. The Civil Defense Authority announced – to the relief of sympathetic residents- that there were no casualties and that all residents will be taken care of.
Throughout the day there was a strong sense of empathy, support and camaraderie among UAE residents who posted their thoughts, concerns and prayers on twitter.
“After the fire in Tamweel Tower, I feel like JLT is one big family. Awesome efforts and great communication. Proud to live here,” tweeted Dubai resident Saad Rabia.
From ‘Pets in the City’ offering to help all affected residents by temporarily sheltering their pets to various restaurants and outlets offering work spaces with WiFi for those that needed it, it was truly heartwarming to witness. And it was a moment to love social media.
Still, as inspiring as it was, there is a more pressing matter to address. After getting past the initial shock that swept the emirate this morning, more and more residents began voicing their concerns and raising questions over building maintenance and fire safety.
“Apparently flammable aluminium composite panels were used on Tamweel tower. Wonder how many other towers in JLT are like this…” tweeted Taimoor Hafeez, a concerned resident in the UAE.
In September, The National spoke to an international fire-safety consultant who told them that almost three quarters of high-rise buildings in the Emirates have ‘facades made of dangerous materials’. Thomas Bell-Write is the chief technical officer for an international consultancy and at the time, he explained that the facades have a ‘combustible thermo-plastic core between two sheets of aluminum’. To put it simply, those will burn easy and fast.
“I wouldn’t say it’s a ticking time bomb but it needs to be addressed,” said Bell-Wright back then. Considering the incident today, Kipp would disagree. That’s exactly what it is.
What really gets Kipp fuming though is that this cladding has been banned in Britain and other parts of the world for approximately 30 years. In the 1980s, the UK discovered the dangerous element, found a safer alternative and subsequently banned its use.
Thirty years on, the UAE still uses it. Why?


----------



## True Blue

There have now been far too many skyscraper fires in Dubai. It looks like cheap flammable aluminium panels are being used probably because they are manufactured in Dubai and make lots of money for someone. Obviously JBR does not have aluminium cladding and has been criticised for it's dull appearance. I wonder if these buildings are beginning to look more attractive now in light of the spate of fires across Dubai.

Another point is the fact that the fire fighting equipment is only suitable for tackling fires and rescues up to the 8th floor. The higher above the 8th floor you are, the more at risk you are. Considering the amount of high rise building there are in Dubai, that will put many people at the mercy of the buildings design and specification.

From an investment point of view, perhaps people might rethink investing in supertall buildings that could be difficult to rent out if incidences of fires continue.



> "We took our passports, wallets and mobile phones and started going down the steps.
> "My legs are still hurting from the long descent.


----------



## biyadoo

^^ I doubt it.. Fire risk will not stop people from building or investing on high rise buildings in Dubai or other cities or make them less attractive in the long run, just like plane crashes don't stop people from flying. Hopefully it will make them find ways to minimize the risks though.


----------



## Josau

biyadoo said:


> ^^ I doubt it.. Fire risk will not stop people from building or investing on high rise buildings in Dubai or other cities or make them less attractive in the long run, just like plane crashes don't stop people from flying. Hopefully it will make them find ways to minimize the risks though.


^^minimizing the risk would mean using fire resistant cladding panels, which seem to exist. Also an article in Gulf News after the fire at Al Tayer tower in Sharjah mentions this:
"At least 500 towers in the country have non fire-rated panels installed over the last 25 years," he said. *"The cost of removing a non-fire panel is not small, it's about Dh100 a square metre. A 40-storey building could cost Dh500,000 [to replace bad tiles with proper fire-retardant panels]."*
If you split the cost for such an operation between all home owners it might be feasible.
But then again: people need to put there greed behind and make protecting human lives a priority.


----------



## TerryPop

Honestly, I thought when it came to things like this sheikh mo had zero tolerance.

The highly flammable panels had been banned in most developed countries for 30 Years. Wtf.

If some heavy weight local has a monopoly on highly flammable cladding and will not cede his grip, let him have the monopoly on non-flammable panelling then instead!

Stupid to let one guy influence 1000's & 1000's of lives and Dubai's overall progress.


Baby you are BETTER then that!


Hoping all effected are safe.









Josau said:


> ^^minimizing the risk would mean using fire resistant cladding panels, which seem to exist. Also an article in Gulf News after the fire at Al Tayer tower in Sharjah mentions this:
> "At least 500 towers in the country have non fire-rated panels installed over the last 25 years," he said. *"The cost of removing a non-fire panel is not small, it's about Dh100 a square metre. A 40-storey building could cost Dh500,000 [to replace bad tiles with proper fire-retardant panels]."*
> If you split the cost for such an operation between all home owners it might be feasible.
> But then again: people need to put there greed behind and make protecting human lives a priority.


----------



## SagarDubai

Hi Bradpole, it was nice reading your email. I am glad at least some one has shown interest!! Its good to keep the forum alive !! 

Pls can you let us know who is Divakar Rao and what does he do in DEC? Did he reply to your email? If so what did he say ? Pls share with us too... Did he say why they stopped the work and when are they going to resume? I am quite eager to know. Also if you can pls share his email ID for the benifit of us all so that we can send him emails. 

BTW my SPA Contract mentions the delivery on 31/12/2012!!! But on top of 31/12/2012 they have included a delay clause of 1 year. How come for you they have mentioned for you end of March 2013???? THis is strange!!


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> From an investment point of view, perhaps people might rethink investing in supertall buildings that could be difficult to rent out if incidences of fires continue.


I'm not sure that the height will make a lot of difference, you said yourself that anything over 8 floors is unreachable from the ground. what may well make a difference is whether the building is clad or not. Buildings like Dorra Bay, The Jewels, The Diamonds, Torch, Princess, Zumurud etc may be hit whilst those that do not use cladding (Original 6, PI, Marina Prom, Time Place, Silverene, JBR etc) may do better. 

Wonder why Emaar seldom (never?) use cladding? :dunno:


----------



## Josau

My post from another thread:


AppleMac said:


> Wonder why Emaar seldom (never?) use cladding? :dunno:





Josau said:


> ^^I asked myself the same question. We at MVT have some cladding and I will raise the question at the next AGA on what kind this cladding is.
> Again it is not a matter of cladding or no cladding, but whether it's fire resistant cladding or "crap".


----------



## Josau

Actually neither EMAAR nor Nakheel use much or any cladding.


----------



## True Blue

AppleMac said:


> I'm not sure that the height will make a lot of difference, you said yourself that anything over 8 floors is unreachable from the ground. what may well make a difference is whether the building is clad or not. Buildings like Dorra Bay, The Jewels, The Diamonds, Torch, Princess, Zumurud etc may be hit whilst those that do not use cladding (Original 6, PI, Marina Prom, Time Place, Silverene, JBR etc) may do better.
> 
> Wonder why Emaar seldom (never?) use cladding? :dunno:


Wow! The height won't make a difference? Look at the tallest block, every building has cladding. Only a fool would want to live in a building that could be ablaze just because some idiot threw a cigarette over his balcony and it landed on someone's laundry hanging out to dry on the balcony. That's how most of these fires have started and it looks like there have been more than one tower blaze a year. It's now moved down to the Marina and JLT with 2 fires within the last 12 months in towers of heights 40 floors plus high.

Who would seriously fly in an airbus A380 if they were crashing with such frequency?

I believe there has already been a fire in Timeplace a few years back when a barbecue set light to the balcony. Maybe some one can clarify this?

I take your point about Jewels and Dorrabay, however both buildings are only 20 floors and mainly glass. I would be shocked if RMJM specified non flame retardant panels on The Jewels as they are a top drawer consultant. Not so sure about Dorrabay though as it was designed by local firm NEB who also designed the Select stock (Bay Central, The Point and The TORCH!!!). This will be a topic for clarification in the coming months.


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> I believe there has already been a fire in Timeplace a few years back when a barbecue set light to the balcony. Maybe some one can clarify this?


Yes - a barbecue exploded on a balcony. Luckily Timeplace doesn't hgave cladding so fire damage was restricted to the single unit and smoke damage to several above, if it had been clad it may well have ended up like Tamweel. I notice this morning when I drove past it that although the fire started at the top the cladding at the bottom had also started burning - kind of makes my point about the height.



> I would be shocked if RMJM specified non flame retardant panels on The Jewels as they are a top drawer consultant.


Well I am sure they didnt specify cheap fittings on the spire that fell off either


----------



## AppleMac

Josau said:


> Actually neither EMAAR nor Nakheel use much or any cladding.


Perhaps none of the owners have an interest in a cladding company?


----------



## shoaibniyazi

*CASA VILLAS at Arabian Ranches*

CASA VILLAS.. 1st PHASE TO BE LAUNCHED !!

- Villas of 3 + Maids, 4 + Maids and 4 +Study + maids
- BUA : 3100 – 3750 sq ft
- Plot more than 450 sq mts
- Typical Floor plans
- Moroccan Style
- Located opposite to Alvorado Villas in Arabian Ranches
- Villas will be ready in 2 years (End of 2014)


----------



## True Blue

AppleMac said:


> Yes - a barbecue exploded on a balcony. Luckily Timeplace doesn't hgave cladding so fire damage was restricted to the single unit and smoke damage to several above, if it had been clad it may well have ended up like Tamweel. *I notice this morning when I drove past it that although the fire started at the top the cladding at the bottom had also started burning - kind of makes my point about the height.*
> 
> 
> 
> Well I am sure they didnt specify cheap fittings on the spire that fell off either


I'm not sure what your point is regarding the height not being important in a burning building. However it is less likely that anyone will be injured or killed in a low rise building that is easier and quicker to exacuate. Also the exercise of repairing a supertall that has cladding wiped out over its entire height will be very time consuming, difficult and expensive. So IMO the height is relevant on both counts.

We might find that banks are now less likely to offer mortgages on buildings with non fire rated cladding. Back to my original point about them being possibly bad investments.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> I take your point about Jewels and Dorrabay, however both buildings are only 20 floors and mainly glass. I would be shocked if RMJM specified non flame retardant panels on The Jewels as they are a top drawer consultant. Not so sure about Dorrabay though as it was designed by local firm NEB who also designed the Select stock (Bay Central, The Point and The TORCH!!!). This will be a topic for clarification in the coming months.


The Torch is one of the few to use Aluminium cladding and so should be fire resistant? :dunno:


----------



## Josau

It is quite easy to find out what kind of cladding panels were used. Aluminum panels are not automatically fire resistant. If you want to check for yourself you need to go back to the time when the protection film was still on the panels. If the branding includes an extention "- fr", chances are they are fire resistant.
However a brand claiming their panels are fr and them really being fr is another topic.
I read that it is the developer, who decides whether to use fr or not, there seems to be no major difference in price. As for Select, I believe they used fr panels made in China in Bay Central.


----------



## nassah

what are prices


----------



## Bradpole

*Update on Lawns 4*

Hi Sagar Dubai,

Divakar Rao is the senior legal man at DEC. I first spoke to him a year or so ago, when I was visiting DEC and getting cross with lack of news.

He passed my message to Sunil who has replied to me this morning, to say that they are in the process of finalising the contract for the next stage,which he calls "finishing and MEP works".

I have to say that when I first heard that work had stopped, the most likely explanation was that the structural workers had finished and there was a delay until the people who do the walls and first and second fix were to start.

I emailed DEC because it has been a month since work stopped and this seemed rather a large gap.

However, Sunil says that they expect to sign the contract in the next week or two and that work will start again soon after that. He still expects to finish in March 2013. This is the date I was given when I switched from Lawns 2 to 4 in May this year.

I know it is hard to believe in DEC after all we have had to bear, but this does seem credible. I'll be in Dubai in early January, by which time I expect that work will be in progress. I will be seeing Sunil then, and will report back to this site.

Regards,
David


----------



## WDVV

900 - 950 per sq ft


----------



## jasper1000

Thank you for your post today. March 2013 would be good

Keep us updated


----------



## SagarDubai

Hi Brad, thanks for replying back. DEC is known for putting the ball in others court. Diwakar Rao instead of replying to you in detail has passed it on to Sunil. Sunil put the ball in the Sub-Contactors court. etc...I suspect that the issue is that the Sub-contractor is not starting the work unless paid in advance and DEC is delaying in doing so, hence the delay.
*
My accessment is that there is no way they can handover of the apartments by March 2013.*It first needs to be ready and then the compliance and appprovals from the municipality, civil defence etc.... *It will at least be sometime until Oct -Nov next year.** 
*
Before arriving to Dubai, kindly make sure and Sunil is available. 
*
BTW: If possible, pls can you give us the email ID or Diwakar Rao so we can also send them our concers


----------



## unknownpleasures

Anyone been to the shopping centre located in motor city....has it got a name? Any idea how far it is from DSC and is this the main shopping place to go or are there any others within close proximity to DSC?

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/351/img2097g.jpg


----------



## Mistermark

Only Dubai could give planning permission to all these high-rise buildings without investing in firefighting equipment capable of dealing with anything above eight floors, or banning flammable cladding materials.


----------



## noir-dresses

I can just imagine how much money it will take to fix everything to acceptable fire safety standards.

I would say the average would be in the ball park of 10,000 AED per apartment. Now multiply how many buildings are not safe, and then how many apartments each building has. That figure could have a lot of zero's.


----------



## True Blue

Tecom Tower fire spreads rapidly through the aluminium cladding.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-...may-not-investigate-cause-of-tecom-flats-fire

This incident is interesting because the authorities are refusing to investigate it due to it being in a "FREE ZONE". The Tamweel Tower is also in a free zone. Apparently the rules and codes are relaxed in these unregulated areas. It got me thinking that The Marina is under the Jurisdiction of Dubai Municipality therefore it is highly likely that they do not permit the use of flammable cladding material in towers built in the marina. DM are the regulatory authority in the Marina.

If I am correct then the problem may be restricted to Tecom, JLT and other Free Zones or poorly regulated areas like Sharjah.


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> Tecom Tower fire spreads rapidly through the aluminium cladding.
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-...may-not-investigate-cause-of-tecom-flats-fire
> 
> This incident is interesting because the authorities are refusing to investigate it due to it being in a "FREE ZONE". The Tamweel Tower is also in a free zone. Apparently the rules and codes are relaxed in these unregulated areas. It got me thinking that The Marina is under the Jurisdiction of Dubai Municipality therefore it is highly likely that they do not permit the use of flammable cladding material in towers built in the marina. DM are the regulatory authority in the Marina.
> 
> If I am correct then the problem may be restricted to Tecom, JLT and other Free Zones or poorly regulated areas like Sharjah.


The municipality can only step in if there is evidence of a health and safety risk."

Now was there risk to health, and safety here ???? I think they answered they're own question.

All they need to do is lite one panel on fire, and there's they're evidence.


----------



## Sebdxb

shoaibniyazi said:


> CASA VILLAS.. 1st PHASE TO BE LAUNCHED !!
> 
> - Villas of 3 + Maids, 4 + Maids and 4 +Study + maids
> - BUA : 3100 – 3750 sq ft
> - Plot more than 450 sq mts
> - Typical Floor plans
> - Moroccan Style
> - Located opposite to Alvorado Villas in Arabian Ranches
> - Villas will be ready in 2 years (End of 2014)


Hi,

Can you please be specific on the location of these new villas? I don't recall any space opposite Alvorada; Will this be in the plot between Palmera and Layan community?

Thx


----------



## Green Hornet

*Spain offers residency to anyone buying a home worth more than £130,000 in bid to save its housing market*

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...me-worth-130-000-bid-save-housing-market.html


Dubai are you watching?


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> If I am correct then the problem may be restricted to Tecom, JLT and other Free Zones or poorly regulated areas like Sharjah.


There is no legal requirement for fire-resistant cladding to be used anywhere in the UAE. This story from last May's GN shows that it has been an issue for a while. Apart from the cladding the blackjack bitumen sealant is probably flammable as well. :sad2:


----------



## True Blue

AppleMac said:


> There is no legal requirement for fire-resistant cladding to be used anywhere in the UAE. This story from last May's GN shows that it has been an issue for a while. Apart from the cladding the blackjack bitumen sealant is probably flammable as well. :sad2:


This report seems to support my reasoning and suggests you may be wrong;



> "We have strict procedures on the installation of such materials, which focus on thermal insulation and fire safety," said Mr Al Mohammed.
> 
> Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-...as-no-authority-over-free-zones#ixzz2CyGwA7kQ
> Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook


Back to what I said, Dubai Municipality are the REGULATORY AUTHORITY for the Marina and all plans and designs must be approved with them before construction commences. They operate a system of permits. They have no authority over the unregulated FREE ZONES. The Free Zones are unregulated, Dubai Marina is not unregulated.

This may be crucial for people to consider when they are buying property in Dubai.


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> This report seems to support my reasoning and suggests you may be wrong;


_"He points out that his company, for example, would never recommend to its clients that the materials used in the exterior of buildings were not fire-resistant.
*"There is no legal requirement in the UAE,"* he says."_


If you are hoping that only buildings in Free Zones and Sharjah use unsafe cladding I feel you may be in for some disappointment.


Dubai Municipality is moving to ban flammable cladding tiles following the Al Baker and Al Tayer tower incidents in Sharjah




Up to 70 per cent of UAE high-rises may have flammable panelling





*Dubai Municipality had told building contractors early this year that only fire-retardant panels can be used to complete facades of residential and office towers.
The circular was issued by the municipality on April 29, a day after a fire ravaged a 40-storey tower in Sharjah.*


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> completion is likely to be end of 2014





True Blue said:


> Mid 2014 would be an admiral achievement at this stage.


An improvement then  Will be interesting to see when 1st handover is compared to your predication.


----------



## DennyCrane

True Blue said:


> ^^Clearly the leopard hasn't changed its spots. Mid 2013 would not be possible even for a reputable company.
> 
> Select continue to "lie lie lie"! Mid 2014 would be an admiral achievement at this stage.
> 
> WHY SHOULD NO ONE BUY INTO THIS DEVELOPMENT AT THIS STAGE?............. BECAUSE YOU WILL BE CONSTANTLY LIED TO ABOUT VALUE, COMPLETION, QUALITY AND THE SIZE OF YOUR UNIT.
> THE HANDOVER EXPERIENCE WILL NOT BE THE DREAM REALISED, IT WILL BE THE NIGHTMARE CONTINUING!
> 
> Off plan is not worth the grief any more, only buy ready now properties. If people take my advise then the developer will have no choice but to raise their game and up the spec and finish. Otherwise they will struggle to sell at a profit on the second row.
> 
> On the construction side of things, the frame is progressing well not but not much sign of anything else happening. Kind of reminds me of Pier 8 and Escan Tower. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=221552


Listen very carefully here and we dont say that often but the above are FACTS!! :applause:


----------



## tempbond

So, at this point is it pretty safe to assume that all our monies are gone and there will never be any construction, or refunds?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> ^^Steve, if you read those statements you will see that they don't actually contradict each other.


Correct but I feel your sentiment is changing towards mid 2014.

18 months should be enough to clad and fit out this little tower?

DEWA should be fast as in all select devs.

I suspect quality will be OK with this one, on par with Botanica or better.

Don't think they will have trouble selling this quickly after completion given the improving market and that prices are currently much cheaper than silverene for example.


----------



## mhashim

My understanding is as follows: you need to contact Mr. Ali of FPSC, nominated by HABN, on +9714 4528777, 9AM-6PM, at Saba 1 Tower (JLT cluster E), near Wind Towers, office no. 2901.


----------



## UAE Investor

What ever happened to dubailand !

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/general/dubai-to-get-new-entertainment-hub-1.1110564


----------



## J39

Dubai_Steve said:


> Correct but I feel your sentiment is changing towards mid 2014.
> 
> 18 months should be enough to clad and fit out this little tower?
> 
> DEWA should be fast as in all select devs.
> 
> I suspect quality will be OK with this one, on par with Botanica or better.
> 
> Don't think they will have trouble selling this quickly after completion given the improving market and that prices are currently much cheaper than silverene for example.


I really cannot let you get away with your constant pro-Select propaganda.
Dewa fast as in all Select develpments my a**e.
My handover at the Point was called off with only two days to go [ flights booked, cases packed ] because Select had not sorted DEWA out.Select gave me the date, then cancelled it.

Sitting in the pool at Silverene I can see the quality of the build. It is rubbish.

If West Avenue is cheaper than Silverene it is because this Select rip off is second row, with very few apartments having any sort of view.

BUYER BEWARE


----------



## True Blue

Everything Dubai Steve posts has to be translated for the discerning forumer.

When he states that West Avenue is cheaper than Silverene, what he is saying is that Silverene market values have increased way above the original sales prices and owners have obtained the comfort of capital appreciation. On the other hand, West Avenue is being sold at prices that assume the market will continue to rise and it will apply to second row developments with no prime views. Owners of all previous Select developments will tell you that NOT ONE of their developments has been delivered in positive equity, they were ALL over sold!

Do not buy until complete, then you can compare real world values and probably decide that your money is better spent elsewhere.


----------



## True Blue

UAE Investor said:


> What ever happened to dubailand !
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/general/dubai-to-get-new-entertainment-hub-1.1110564


^^ IMO It won't be built due to the lack of success of Global village.

What ever happened to Cirque de Soliel @ Palm Jumeirah, Palm Jebel Ali, PJA Bush Gardens theme park, Palm Deira, Arabian Canal, The Waterfront, Nakheel Harbour, Dubai Promenade, Tiger Woods Golf Dubailand, et al. All these projects were started and disappeared into oblivion.

Oh and I nearly forgot, Marina Sky Towers  :lol:


----------



## UAE Investor

True Blue said:


> ^^ IMO It won't be built due to the lack of success of Global village.
> 
> What ever happened to Cirque de Soliel @ Palm Jumeirah, Palm Jebel Ali, PJA Bush Gardens theme park, Palm Deira, Arabian Canal, The Waterfront, Nakheel Harbour, Dubai Promenade, Tiger Woods Golf Dubailand, et al. All these projects were started and disappeared into oblivion.
> 
> Oh and I nearly forgot, Marina Sky Towers  :lol:



TB please do your home work..Global village is great and always full of poeple..!




UAE Investor said:


> More than 600,000 flock to Global Village
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...pocket+offers+'instant+love'&utm_medium=email


:cheers:


----------



## UAE Investor

Global village website ....i think a few years ago GV was,nt up to much ,but when i went in January 2010 it was great so...

http://www.globalvillage.ae/


----------



## True Blue

UAE Investor said:


> TB please do your home work..Global village is great and always full of poeple..!
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:


I have done my homework! I've been to global village, it does not come close to amusement parks around the world. It may have a large footfall in Dubai but that is more to do with the lack of choice than the quality of the entertainment. 

How many people are attracted to Dubai as a tourist destination soley due to GV? Next to zero I suspect!


----------



## UAE Investor

True Blue said:


> I have done my homework! I've been to global village, it does not come close to amusement parks around the world. It may have a large footfall in Dubai but that is more to do with the lack of choice than the quality of the entertainment.
> 
> How many people are attracted to Dubai as a tourist destination solely due to GV? Next to zero I suspect!


i have no knowledge of the origins of Gv but yes it seems to be a busy place for families to go to ..local and tourists

My family had made quite a few holidays to Dubai yet never heard of this place, i found it by accident ....

As a place, its just a melting pot of different cultures of middle / far east origins ...it was never meant to be a (failed ?) disneyfied amusement park as you portrait ..therefor never intended for the mass world tourism, altho placed in the Dubai-land footprint admittedly

My point is Gv is not a failure but a celebration of Arab culture for those in the know who wish to enjoy it ....but in an understated way..

Not a failure in my eyes ,can,t wait to take the family there when we get our apartment in DSC .

:sad2:


----------



## Josau

Believe me GV was intended to become the likes of Disneland or Universal Studios. Back in 2007 I was approached by them as an entertainment professional to develop concepts for a parade similar to those at Disney parks. The vision then was to develop GV into a main tourist attraction and to export the GV brand to other places in the world, like Singapore or even Europe. Needles to say this never happened, imo not only because of the downturn, but due to the lack of understanding of the complexity of such an undertaking by the people in charge.


----------



## UAE Investor

Josau said:


> Believe me GV was intended to become the likes of Disneland or Universal Studios. Back in 2007 I was approached by them as an entertainment professional to develop concepts for a parade similar to those at Disney parks. The vision then was to develop GV into a main tourist attraction and to export the GV brand to other places in the world, like Singapore or even Europe. Needles to say this never happened, imo not only because of the downturn, but due to the lack of understanding of the complexity of such an undertaking by the people in charge.


As i said i don,t know the origins of GV ...but what ever the end result ,i went there and took it for what it is 

People can,t see past the disneyland orgins so its a failure in there eyes...so 

i just take it on face value, that its probally the most fun place to take the family in Dubai, in the evening , after 4 pm when it opens.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai, buy, buy: Gulf state starts to build again*

A four-wheel-drive vehicle encrusted with silver and gold coins glints in the winter sun at a national day parade in Dubai. This is not a city with any qualms about appearing ostentatious. However, after its humbling debt crisis and subsequent bailout by the federal government, the emirate – one of seven that make up the United Arab Emirates – has been forced to rein in some of its natural extravagance over the past three years.


But now the headline-grabbing mega-projects that defined its boom years are back. In the past fortnight, the emirate has unveiled an array of grand development plans, including a new "city" which will rise from the sands just outside central Dubai and contain 100 new hotels and green space a third bigger than London's Hyde Park.

Breaking records is a favourite pastime for Dubai. The emirate is already home to the world's tallest building –the 829.8m (2,722ft) Burj Khalifa – which dwarfs the dozens of gleaming towers that would, in any other city, be a dizzying skyline on their own. In the Burj Khalifa's shadow sits Dubai Mall, the world's biggest by area, where after browsing designer shops, visitors can go scuba diving in a shark tank.

The new city, to be named after the emirate's ruler, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, will include the even larger Mall of the World, with the capacity to welcome 80 million shoppers a year. Attached to it will be a Universal Studios branded "entertainment centre".

The mammoth project, which will also contain art galleries and a golf course, was announced by Sheikh Mohammed with typical bombast. "The future does not wait for those who are hesitant. We do not anticipate the future. We build it," he declared.

Just days later came the news that a £1.7bn plan for five new theme parks had also been approved. A Bollywood park offering live theatre shows will cater to affluent Indian visitors. While in town they will also be able to visit a replica of their beloved Taj Mahal, four times the size of the original, which will contain a five-star hotel. A Hollywood adventure park, children's park, night safari and marine park are also planned.

Timed neatly to coincide with the third anniversary of Dubai's £6bn bailout from Abu Dhabi, and its subsequent property market crash, it is clear that the country is keen to stress that the narrative that it has come full circle. The stock market surged on the news and the local press jumped on the announcements as evidence of a recovery. "Dubai on a white-knuckle ride to revival," read a headline in the English-language newspaper The National.

All the indicators are positive, particularly when it comes to tourism. Dubai's hotel occupancy is at a healthy 82 per cent and the number of foreign visitors grew by 10 per cent in the first half of the year. Over the past decade, the city has managed to position itself as a tourist playground, despite a steady drip of stories of Britons and other foreigners who have fallen foul of the strict laws on sex and alcohol.

Its bars and restaurants, many of them offshoots of familiar overseas establishments, remained thronged with expatriates and tourists in search of a good time.

While Lebanon and Egypt have seen their tourism industries badly hit by recent unrest, the United Arab Emirates has benefited by remaining an insulated safe haven – in part due to a no-tolerance approach towards dealing with dissent.

After diving in the wake of Dubai's debt crisis, the property market is also showing signs of recovery; rental prices have risen by 17 per cent over the past year. In scenes reminiscent of Dubai's headiest days, speculators can once more be seen queuing outside sales offices to invest in new developments.

"Dubai has turned a corner," said Simon Williams, a senior economist at HSBC. "Those who rushed to dismiss the emirate as nothing more than a bust real-estate story back in 2009 have been proved wrong."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-again-8411982.html?google_editors_picks=true


----------



## metlofts123

^^


Dubai_Steve said:


> *Dubai, buy, buy: Gulf state starts to build again * A four-wheel-drive vehicle encrusted with silver and gold coins…..


_*How come you only copied half the article? Not sure the thousands upon thousands of people who collectively had billions of dirhams effectively stolen from them by hundreds of rogue developers (from the very smallest to the largest developer), have such a short memory??

Anyway, the rest of that article from yesterday's Independent:
*_

'But some question if it is too much too soon. The costs of Mohammed bin Rashid City have not been announced, but are expected to comfortably run into billions of dollars – raising concerns about financing when banks are still so cautious to lend.

"It is a hell of a statement to make in a pretty subdued international market," said a Dubai-based partner at an international property firm, who pointed out that investors in previous pie-in-the-sky projects that have since been shelved indefinitely may not be happy about the announcements.

The emirate is yet to fully disentangle itself from the fallout of the 2009 crash. A special tribunal set up to resolve disputes related to the bailout of Dubai World and subsidiaries, including Nakheel – the developer of the artificial palm-tree shaped island off the Dubai coast – is still sifting through claims. Lofty projects such as a new palm-tree island near Jebel Ali, 50 per cent bigger than the first and containing four theme parks, have stalled and look unlikely to be revived. A quarter of the city's residential units are empty, yet new building continues.

"Given the ongoing debt structuring and the emirate's various other problems, it seems to me the best evidence available of the ruler's ego, his lack of grasp on reality and the real need for sustainable economic development," said Dr Christopher Davidson, a lecturer at Durham University and author of Dubai: The Vulnerability of Success.

At the time of Dubai's bailout, there was widespread expectation that there would be strings attached by Abu Dhabi's rulers as the capital attempted to rein in its boisterous brother to the north, and the ambitious new plans are likely to be raising some eyebrows in the capital, where development has progressed with more prudence.

"The challenge isn't to generate growth but to ensure that the pace of growth is sustainable; some of the people I hear already seem to have forgotten the excesses that built up last time around and the damaging bust that they triggered," added Mr Williams.
You don't have to look far in Dubai to see the consequences of dreaming too big. An archipelago of artificial islands, shaped like a world map, is slowly being reclaimed by the sea.

In the desert outside the city stands the shell of the last large-scale leisure development – a 107-square-mile entertainment complex called Dubailand which was meant to house the world's largest array of theme parks. The signs for what would have been Universal Studios are whipped by the sand, and its gate leads nowhere.

*Pie in the sky: Problem Projects

Palm Jebel Ali*

Work to reclaim the huge palm-shaped island from the sea was completed in 2007, but the project was shelved in 2008 with building yet to begin. Fifty per cent larger than the Palm Jumeirah, the island was meant to contain theme parks and six marinas. A third palm island at Deira, which is five times larger, has also been mothballed.

*The World*

Another of Dubai's grand reclamation projects, the archipelago is in the shape of a world map, and two-thirds of its 255 man-made islands have been sold. The only one developed is Lebanon; its owners opened a beach club in the summer.

*Dubai City Tower*

At 1.5 miles high, the Dubai City Tower never made it off the drawing board. The 400-floor building would have been three times higher than the Burj Khalifa and seven times taller than the Empire State Building. Its lifts were based on a vertical 125mph bullet train.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-again-8411982.html?google_editors_picks=true


----------



## anacreon

DennyCrane said:


> Don't worry....the esteemed Select say it will be ready next year and you know how good they are at timelines hno:


My guess as that this one will probably be finished (roughly) on time.

In the past the big problems with Select's delivery times have been when DCE were the contractors and they are not the ones working on West Avenue....


----------



## J39

anacreon said:


> My guess as that this one will probably be finished (roughly) on time.
> 
> In the past the big problems with Select's delivery times have been when DCE were the contractors and they are not the ones working on West Avenue....


Please correct me if I have got this wrong, but I believe DCE are not working on the third tower at Bay Central or at Pacific.
Both are just a little late I think.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

metlofts123 said:


> How come you only copied half the article?


I only usually post the first part or small part with a link to the rest as per the forum rules.


----------



## tanglewood

J39 said:


> Please correct me if I have got this wrong, but I believe DCE are not working on the third tower at Bay Central or at Pacific.
> Both are just a little late I think.


DCE are the main contractors for Pacific,but is just down to the amount of money being put into the escrow account each month so as investors drop out the longer things will take


----------



## True Blue

^^ :lol: If you say so 

It really is quite insulting to read these stories about new projects when so many people have been hung out to dry on all the previous grand schemes.

Any sane action would be to complete the "Pie in the sky" developments and restore faith rather that try and bury them under new press releases like they never happened! I think the terminology is Ostrich Management.

Anyone fancy a villa overlooking the Tiger Woods world class golf course or perhaps a Water Home built on stilts at the amazing Palm Jebel Ali? Not everyone who rides a horse is a jockey :lol:


----------



## unknownpleasures

True Blue said:


> ^^ :lol: If you say so
> 
> It really is quite insulting to read these stories about new projects when so many people have been hung out to dry on all the previous grand schemes.
> 
> Any sane action would be to complete the "Pie in the sky" developments and restore faith rather that try and bury them under new press releases like they never happened! I think the terminology is Ostrich Management.
> 
> Anyone fancy a villa overlooking the Tiger Woods world class golf course or perhaps a Water Home built on stilts at the amazing Palm Jebel Ali? Not everyone who rides a horse is a jockey :lol:



Sounds logical....if only they could pick up the mess and finish what they started...my thoughts also, did I write them somewhere here?! :cheers:


----------



## RedWayne28thfloor

J39 said:


> Please correct me if I have got this wrong, but I believe DCE are not working on the third tower at Bay Central or at Pacific.
> Both are just a little late I think.


DCE are not involved in the 3rd tower at BC but are the contractor for Pacific. GCC are the contractor for the hotel which is making more progress in this last year than what DCE did at Bay Central in 5 years!

Pacific is more than a little late I'm afraid due to significant infrastructure problems on the island in RAK


----------



## AppleMac

Dubai_Steve said:


> A four-wheel-drive vehicle encrusted with silver and gold coins glints in the winter sun at a national day parade in Dubai.


Hmm, I was at the National Day Parade and I dont recall any cars (and there were a lot) being encrusted with silver and gold - newspaper hyperbole perhaps? :lol:


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> It really is quite insulting to read these stories about new projects when so many people have been hung out to dry on all the previous grand schemes.
> 
> Any sane action would be to complete the "Pie in the sky" developments and restore faith rather that try and bury them under new press releases like they never happened! I think the terminology is Ostrich Management.
> 
> Anyone fancy a villa overlooking the Tiger Woods world class golf course or perhaps a Water Home built on stilts at the amazing Palm Jebel Ali? Not everyone who rides a horse is a jockey :lol:


Totally agree.


----------



## noir-dresses

I guess with launching new projects they think they will keep getting more FDI coming in. Finishing old projects makes them caugh up cash, that simple.


----------



## Mistermark

True Blue said:


> ^^ :lol: If you say so
> 
> It really is quite insulting to read these stories about new projects when so many people have been hung out to dry on all the previous grand schemes.
> 
> Any sane action would be to complete the "Pie in the sky" developments and restore faith rather that try and bury them under new press releases like they never happened! I think the terminology is Ostrich Management.
> 
> Anyone fancy a villa overlooking the Tiger Woods world class golf course or perhaps a Water Home built on stilts at the amazing Palm Jebel Ali? Not everyone who rides a horse is a jockey :lol:


I couldn't agree more. As that shining intellectual George W Bush once (almost) said, 'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.' Those of us who got fleeced in Dubai's first property boom can rightfully blame Sheikh Mo for lying to us when he said nobody would ever lose money on property in Dubai and for running a court system that bases its decisions on who you know (ie protecting those with close connections to the ruling family). But anyone who buys into an off-plan development in Dubai this time round, with the evidence already writ large that contracts are unenforceable in that jurisdiction is, frankly, a lobotomy case who deserves to be parted from his or her money.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

DUBAI (Reuters) - The average apartment price in Dubai rose by 13 percent this year and is expected to grow at the same rate next year as speculative buyers prop up demand, a study released on Sunday showed.

Prices rose despite expectations of around 36,000 new units forecast to enter the market in the next two years, a study by property consultancy CBRE showed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/10563993


----------



## Pleth

Mistermark said:


> As that shining intellectual George W Bush once (almost) said, 'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.'
> Those of us who got fleeced in Dubai's first property boom can rightfully blame Sheikh Mo for lying to us when he said nobody would ever lose money on property in Dubai and for running a court system that bases its decisions on who you know (ie protecting those with close connections to the ruling family). But anyone who buys into an off-plan development in Dubai this time round, with the evidence already writ large that contracts are unenforceable in that jurisdiction is, frankly, a lobotomy case who deserves to be parted from his or her money.


Exactly.
Not to mention Rera who are passive and all the money missing on the Escrow accounts!
No, an Escrow account is not a secure account!


----------



## Al shali

Mistermark said:


> I couldn't agree more. As that shining intellectual George W Bush once (almost) said, 'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.' Those of us who got fleeced in Dubai's first property boom can rightfully blame Sheikh Mo for lying to us when he said nobody would ever lose money on property in Dubai and for running a court system that bases its decisions on who you know (ie protecting those with close connections to the ruling family). But anyone who buys into an off-plan development in Dubai this time round, with the evidence already writ large that contracts are unenforceable in that jurisdiction is, frankly, a lobotomy case who deserves to be parted from his or her money.




Spot on TB and MisterM, couldn't agree more. Dubai's regulatory and judicial framework weak to nonexistent, investing in Dubai compares to the casino, fun but highly risky ! Buyer beware.


----------



## OmarPERU

AppleMac said:


> Hmm, I was at the National Day Parade and I dont recall any cars (and there were a lot) being encrusted with silver and gold - newspaper hyperbole perhaps? :lol:


Totally agree with most of comments, we were all hit by the bubble one way or another and it some of the statements are ridiculous.

For tye sake of truth, though, there was a range rover with what appeared to be gold and silver coins all over, in downtown boulevard parade


----------



## Dubai_Steve

> "Buying off-plan property is still a risky business. Many investors cannot wait to get back to the good old days of 2002 to 2008 and another upward cycle. However, if the past has taught us anything, it is that price rises on the back of multiple trades of paper (i.e. off-plan secondary market sales) can lead to a cliff edge if the projects are not delivered," Hadef & Partners said in its 2012 report on the legal state of the Dubai real estate market.
> 
> "Therefore, whilst investors should be cautious particularly in relation to off-plan property... It remains to be seen whether the laws and more importantly the regulators can effectively manage this new activity to avoid the pitfalls of the recent past. However, it seems certain, that if these issues are managed and Dubai can deliver on investors' desires for certainty, transparency and delivery against promises, then the future looks bright for the Dubai real estate sector."


http://www.zawya.com/story/Offplan_property_sales_in_Dubai_need_to_be_regulated-ZAWYA20121214045815/


----------



## Dubai SCP

People who want to sell their units and cash out may contact me on [email protected]


----------



## celticmonkey

Has anyone had a court decission on this project ? It was launched in 2005 so one would expect a judgement by now surely ?


----------



## anacreon

mhashim said:


> My understanding is as follows: you need to contact Mr. Ali of FPSC, nominated by HABN, on +9714 4528777, 9AM-6PM, at Saba 1 Tower (JLT cluster E), near Wind Towers, office no. 2901.


My understanding is that FPSC are essentially 'swap' brokers. In other words they try to give you some credit for the money you have sunk into a stalled project by asking you to surrender your rights in that one and instead giving you a discount (off often somewhat inflated prices!) on other projects that they happen to be selling at the time.


----------



## xingu

Impy said:


> Residential rents in Dubai rose 17 percent on average amid population growth and limited supply in certain areas, according to CBRE Group Inc.
> 
> “Dubai is seeing higher rental growth this year due to a sustained period of population growth, positive economic performance, increased occupier demand and limited availability of quality units in the most desirable locations,” Matthew Green, head of United Arab Emirates’ research at CBRE Middle East, wrote in a report today.


Is this why the RERA rental increase calculator is 'under updating'? :lol:

Just tweaking the averages a bit higher?


----------



## UAE Investor

Power for refund: Dubai to release property investor protection law in 2013
Real estate investors to soon get shot in the arm if developers fail to deliver


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...or-protection-law-in-2013-2012-12-17-1.487481

Has,nt the Horse already bolted !
:horse:icard:


----------



## metlofts123

Originally posted on the DSC thread:



UAE Investor said:


> If a good developer, maybe give you a refund but which developers would do this when they don,t have to ?
> Not many *unless there is a refund clause* like "select" Dubai Marina developer,stated in there spa, if not handed over by such a date, the investor would be entitled to a complete refund including interest at 9% pa


Sorry, but that is* not correct* at all. It may sound correct in theory, but in reality it does not work like that. Regardless of what the SPA states regarding refund or compensation for late or non delivery, the developer will simply ignore it. Regardless of whether the development is in Marina, DSC, Jumeirah Village or anywhere else, the only hope of getting the developer to abide by their own SPA contract would be to take a gamble and take the matter to court.

I'll copy this post to the Dubai property investment thread as more appropriately placed there?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764&page=1441


----------



## bizzybonita

SUR are you still talking about Dr.Azizi  what a lovely long story between them ... What's Up Iran ! What's up Wind !


----------



## UAE Investor

metlofts123 said:


> Originally posted on the DSC thread:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that is* not correct* at all. It may sound correct in theory, but in reality it does not work like that. Regardless of what the SPA states regarding refund or compensation for late or non delivery, the developer will simply ignore it. Regardless of whether the development is in Marina, DSC, Jumeirah Village or anywhere else, the only hope of getting the developer to abide by their own SPA contract would be to take a gamble and take the matter to court.
> 
> I'll copy this post to the Dubai property investment thread as more appropriately placed there?
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764&page=1441


Met, i think you will find at least one investor , got refunded for late delivery..i just had a couple minutes trying to find the post on the torch thread? but gave up ( i,m not a quiter but) but i,m sure its there.... i think its was because the deal was done in the uk ( manchester) and of course many signed up there so ....

yeah i agree with you the exception rather than the rule ,but that is the reason stated the developer, might give a refund ?
:cheers:


----------



## ashram8

they are waiting for an approval from RERA to send this demand letter. they claim that they are pouring the 40th slab. not sure if its true.


----------



## Pleth

UAE Investor said:


> Power for refund: Dubai to release property investor protection law in 2013
> Real estate investors to soon get shot in the arm if developers fail to deliver
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...or-protection-law-in-2013-2012-12-17-1.487481:


"The draft law allows investors to get full refund if the developer fails to complete or handover a property within a certain timeframe or deliberately defrauds an investor"
Yeh right! Sure!
And do I have to pay 70.000 Dirhams in court fee's to get the money back?
What happens if the developer hasn't got any money?
Even the Escow accounts have been emptied in Dubai, they are not safe accounts!


----------



## unknownpleasures

metlofts123 said:


> Originally posted on the DSC thread:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that is* not correct* at all. It may sound correct in theory, but in reality it does not work like that. Regardless of what the SPA states regarding refund or compensation for late or non delivery, the developer will simply ignore it. Regardless of whether the development is in Marina, DSC, Jumeirah Village or anywhere else, the only hope of getting the developer to abide by their own SPA contract would be to take a gamble and take the matter to court.
> 
> I'll copy this post to the Dubai property investment thread as more appropriately placed there?
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764&page=1441


^^^^^^ How's DSC in comparison to JVS?


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...ales-in-dubai-is-critical-2012-12-15-1.487297


“Buying off-plan property is still a risky business. 

"While future is bright for the emirate, buying off-plan property is risky business.

Off-plan property sales have to be regulated correctly, says a UAE-based law firm".......

^^^^^^ Stories like this were not around in 2007....somehow they are around these days!hno:hno:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Rents in Dubai’s most sought-after neighbourhoods will double in little over three years if they continue at their current rate of increase, according to new research into the emirate’s real estate.

The latest update released yesterday by global property consultant CB Richard Ellis (CBRE) shows that rents in Downtown Dubai, Dubai Marina, The Greens, Jumeirah Beach Residence and Palm Jumeirah have increased by an average of 24 per cent in the past 12 months.

If rents in prime locations keep climbing at the same pace, they will be on course to be twice what they were at the start of this year by early 2015.

More here: http://www.7daysindubai.com/Dubai-rent-course-double-say-experts/story-17539910-detail/story.html


----------



## unknownpleasures

I guess it's safe to say that DSC is not a sought after place! No mention of it in that article.... hno:hno:


----------



## Impy

18/12/2012

Prime areas such as Dubai Marina are witnessing rental increases of 24% year on year, according to a new report by CB Richard Ellis (CBRE). From December 2011 to November 2012, rates soared in Dubai Marina.
Elsewhere residential rents and property prices rose an average of 17% and 16% respectively over the last year. According to Jones Lang LaSalle’s seventh Mena Investor Sentiment survey, investors from the Middle East and North Africa (Mena) region are keen on buying real estate in Dubai due to its global appeal, transparency and legal structure. The survey also predicts Dubai will be the strongest performing real estate market in the region over the next 12 months. 
Dubai is forecast to be among the strongest performing property markets in the world next year, according to a new study. The research by international property broker, Knight Frank, ranks the emirate in third place, just behind Moscow and Miami, out of a total of 14 global cities. It also predicts luxury villa prices will rise by 5-10% in 2013, with Emirates Hills and the Palm set to be among the most popular areas


----------



## londonboy 1

*marina 1 bed*

Hi, I want to buy a 1 bed flat in a good tower in the marina mouth with low service charges and high rental income, my budget is up to 1 million AED can someone with good knowledge of the marina make some recommendations please?


----------



## Mistermark

UAE Investor said:


> Met, i think you will find at least one investor , got refunded for late delivery..i just had a couple minutes trying to find the post on the torch thread? but gave up ( i,m not a quiter but) but i,m sure its there.... i think its was because the deal was done in the uk ( manchester) and of course many signed up there so ....
> 
> yeah i agree with you the exception rather than the rule ,but that is the reason stated the developer, might give a refund ?
> :cheers:


That was probably me. I should perhaps point out that this happened despite the court system of Dubai, RERA etc, not because of it, and involved getting a national newspaper to run a 'Dubai is a crock of s**t' opinion piece and, later, threatening to send a team of persuasive gentlemen out there to pay the chairman of the developer a visit he would never have forgotten. Not everybody has the means or intent to push things this far. If you're not prepared to go down either of these routes, I'd say buying property in Dubai is a lottery, because the rights you take for granted as a property owner are simply not enforceable.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Mistermark said:


> That was probably me. I should perhaps point out that this happened despite the court system of Dubai, RERA etc, not because of it, and involved getting a national newspaper to run a 'Dubai is a crock of s**t' opinion piece and, later, threatening to send a team of persuasive gentlemen out there to pay the chairman of the developer a visit he would never have forgotten. Not everybody has the means or intent to push things this far. If you're not prepared to go down either of these routes, I'd say buying property in Dubai is a lottery, because the rights you take for granted as a property owner are simply not enforceable.


^^^^ Wow you are a hero man, have you got a copy of the article mentioned above?!! The only person lucky enough to beat the system...it must have been early in the piece as many have tried since and have been fighting an uphill battle!:guns1: :cheers:


----------



## UAE Investor

Mistermark said:


> That was probably me. I should perhaps point out that this happened despite the court system of Dubai, RERA etc, not because of it, and involved getting a national newspaper to run a 'Dubai is a crock of s**t' opinion piece and, later, threatening to send a team of persuasive gentlemen out there to pay the chairman of the developer a visit he would never have forgotten. Not everybody has the means or intent to push things this far. If you're not prepared to go down either of these routes, I'd say buying property in Dubai is a lottery, because the rights you take for granted as a property owner are simply not enforceable.


thanks ..yeah we have friends who invested in select from there Manchester office...when they got the contract through, there solicitor was not happy. 

They went up to Manchester, with a couple of enforcers, and got there deposit back..!

In my case with DSC ,i tried a solictor( there not regonized as solictors or have any qualifiactions In UAE ?), who was very helpflull initially ,to the point i sent money, then it was all BS going thru the motions..!

Did,nt you get swindled, by select on the interest etc on your monies returned ?( from memory ?)

:cheers:


----------



## Mistermark

unknownpleasures said:


> ^^^^ Wow you are a hero man, have you got a copy of the article mentioned above?!! The only person lucky enough to beat the system...it must have been early in the piece as many have tried since and have been fighting an uphill battle!:guns1: :cheers:


Not with me but it was on the forum at the time, it caused something of a diplomatic incident between the UK and UAE as Sheikh Mo felt it was unfair (he doesn't understand the concept of a free press). That was enough to get Aslam to sign a side letter saying if they didn't finish the development by a particular date he'd give me my money back. 

In the event he returned it something like 10 weeks after he should have done, and there was a (small) shortfall he put down to currency losses. He (rightly) assumed it wouldn't be worth my while sending enforcers out there for the difference (I would have had to pay them £10k and also pay their travel, accommodation and car hire - and put myself in breach of the law).


----------



## m-man

*Abu Dhabi firms inform staff of non-renewal of their rental contracts in Dubai*



> Companies in Abu Dhabi have begun informing employees, who have been provided accommodation in Dubai, of non-renewal of their rental contracts after they expire.
> 
> “I have been provided accommodation in Dubai by my company, but few weeks back I was told by my HR department that my rental contract would not be renewed when it expires in January,” an employee of a semi-government company said on conditions of anonymity.
> 
> “It was not just me but all those who stay in Dubai were informed of the decision to move to Abu Dhabi once their rent contracts expire.”
> 
> In September, WAM news agency, citing the emirate’s Secretariat General of the Executive Council, said that Abu Dhabi government employees would be required to live inside the capital within a year.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...rental-contracts-in-dubai-2012-12-20-1.488030


----------



## agod

londonboy 1 said:


> Hi, I want to buy a 1 bed flat in a good tower in the marina mouth with low service charges and high rental income, my budget is up to 1 million AED can someone with good knowledge of the marina make some recommendations please?


if you find some, can I have a couple as well.

A.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Mistermark said:


> Not with me but it was on the forum at the time, it caused something of a diplomatic incident between the UK and UAE as Sheikh Mo felt it was unfair (he doesn't understand the concept of a free press). That was enough to get Aslam to sign a side letter saying if they didn't finish the development by a particular date he'd give me my money back.
> 
> In the event he returned it something like 10 weeks after he should have done, and there was a (small) shortfall he put down to currency losses. He (rightly) assumed it wouldn't be worth my while sending enforcers out there for the difference (I would have had to pay them £10k and also pay their travel, accommodation and car hire - and put myself in breach of the law).


^^^^ Wow still great stuff....if you remember can you let me know which thread here...might like to do a bit of a search as it sounded like some big thing....can you recall what year - you have me intrigued, this is something that makes movies?:cheers:


----------



## Abella Ivan

Dubai is a good place for investment. But for that you have to make a proper planney & strategy for it. You will need to consult legal advisers for it. Population of dubai increases every year.


----------



## Mistermark

unknownpleasures said:


> ^^^^ Wow still great stuff....if you remember can you let me know which thread here...might like to do a bit of a search as it sounded like some big thing....can you recall what year - you have me intrigued, this is something that makes movies?:cheers:


It's the Torch thread, now in the completed projects folder. You'd need to look back from about mid-2009 to early 2011 (from memory).


----------



## unknownpleasures

Mistermark said:


> It's the Torch thread, now in the completed projects folder. You'd need to look back from about mid-2009 to early 2011 (from memory).


Cheers, thanks...:cheers:


----------



## Wac

New law to protect property investors in Dubai due in first quarter of 2013

http://www.propertywire.com/news/middle-east/dubai-property-protection-law-201212207265.html


----------



## unknownpleasures

What laws are followed there in any case!! All talk and no action mostly! :bash:


----------



## Mazda

How much you are willing to pay for a studio aprtment, in Alsaqran Tower?


----------



## True Blue

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> Game over ?
> 
> UAE Central Bank caps mortgages at 50% of property value for expats; 70% for Emiratis
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...or-expats-70-for-emiratis-2012-12-31-1.489301


Far from it!

Mortgages are not available for most of the properties built by independent developers. The banks have been operating a closed shop system that favours Government owned developers like Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Properties. In this respect the decision to restrict mortgages could become another own goal.

Mortgages are also relatively expensive in the UAE. Most investors are cash buyers or people remortgaging their own home in their own country. So the fact that banks are starting to lend again in Europe could have a bigger impact on the market as people seek out good investments with both high returns and potential for capital growth in the future.

It does make sense to try and control the market to prevent boom bust bubbles forming in the property market. In my opinion, the rental market will dictate the values of the properties going forward. A property's value will be determined by what it can achieve on the rental market. For example if we say 6% is an average return then a property achieving 100k *NET* per year would be worth 100k/6%= AED 1.67M approx


----------



## MMDXB

I'm sick and tired of this delay....how much more time it's gonna wasted ?


----------



## Jesus.C

AllaLV said:


> How about we all meet on 9th of January at 11am in Al Tajir office?
> Please msg me on my email: [email protected]
> Thanks, Alla


Yes I agree I can bring another investor also. Can we meet in the entrance of the building to discuss for 5 min before we meet Abdul Khaliq.


----------



## Docmo1

Hi Mazda

Please check your private messages.

Regards
Docmo1


----------



## Mazda

Thank You, I will, and I let you know.


----------



## warsawer

*Dubai real estate market research and rankings*

Does anybody has acces to rankings and official or proffessional market reports about Dubai ?


----------



## anacreon

sgn7200 said:


> Hello Anacreon; With due respect it is difficult to agree with your proposition. If this was true, then all the investors should have received communications both from DEC and the incoming developer e.g. Orr Marina saying who is leaving and who is coming in so that future progress payments can be directed to the developer who is carring on construction work. My uncle has an apartment and he has not received any communication with regard to changes, if any. It is admitted that DEC is not in the same league as other big developers e.g. Nakheel, Emaar, Damac etc. and it is relatively difficult for DEC to raise funds to complete the project. It is normal practice in the business world to seek collaborations under such circumstances. Although I don't have any information but my instinct tells me that DEC may have done this. If this is so, this would be an internal arrangement of DEC and the investors have got very little to do with this. I am open to correction and I would lile to hear from learned people like yourself or *IMRE *any INFORMED view. This column is used by serious investors and any piece of MISINFORMATION can send shivers down the spine of someone. Please do give us some information as we are hungary for information but do bear in mind that you have made some checks before making us believe these are your elevated thoughts. Cheers for now.


My current understanding is that DEC are technically joint venturing this project, with the key terms of the JV being that the new partners are providing the funds for, and are overseeing, the construction. The deal is presumably that the new JV partners get to keep for themselves all the unsold inventory but have to ensure that the development is completed and that all earlier sales made by DEC continue to be honoured. In practice, then, DEC have effectively on-sold the project but get to keep the relationship with existing customers for the units that they have already sold.


----------



## Al shali

More on the decree on a 50 % market cap, good article from The National...

The New Year will bring little cheer to house hunters who, as they ushered in 2013, will have learnt they may need to double their deposits as a result of a new mortgage lending cap.
Related
■ Cap on UAE mortgages threatens Dubai property recovery
■ Dubai property stocks down as UAE plans to cap expat mortgages

Regulation can move like a pendulum - overcorrecting weaknesses in a market and creating further structural weakness in the process. The enforced cap on loan to value ratios threatens to do just this, analysts observe.
It emerged this week that expatriates will only be able to borrow up to 60 per cent for their first home purchase and 50 per cent for subsequent purchases. At the same time financing for Emiratis was limited to 70 per cent for the first home and 60 per cent for further properties.
The move will hit the very people it aims to protect - home buyers saving for deposits to buy houses they want to live in.
The aim may have been to protect the market from the excesses and exuberances of the past. But it is unlikely to achieve that outcome.
A note from Bank of America Merrill Lynch to clients this week makes this point, warning that loan to value limits are likely to affect end-user affordability instead of curbing speculation.
The New Year's Eve news would have landed like a bombshell for anyone in the process of buying a home and to a lesser extent anyone even thinking about it.
For the investor buying an average three-bedroom villa in Dubai for Dh2.7 million (US$735,094) this change would mean finding an additional Dh400,000 under the mattress.
Many mortgage-financed purchases will simply fall through - hitting prices and derailing a recovery that was beginning to boost consumer confidence in the wider economy.
VTB Capital said that Dubai property transactions could fall by as much as 60 per cent with prices dropping 20 per cent if the guidelines were implemented in full.
While it is sensible for the regulator to prioritise policy aimed at curbing the sort of rampant speculation that led to one of the most dramatic property crashes in the world four years ago, the collapse of house prices in 2008 was not about loan to value ratios.
It was about an off-plan funding model that permitted multiple house purchases only on the strength of a deposit - even before a mortgage had been secured - and the onward flipping of such purchases.
That created a 42 per cent increase in prices in a single three-month period at the start of that year. The system worked in much the same way as a pyramid scheme.
A lack of due diligence on the part of banks and developers, the absence of credit checks on investors and a media that failed to point out that the property speculation emperor looked rather underdressed, perfected the storm.
Four years later, many analysts have been dismayed by the trumpeting of relaunched projects by some developers and the eager phone calls to journalists alerting them to queues forming outside their offices with every new launch. Here we go again, we all thought. It was only a matter of time before the bragging brought a response from the regulator. But end users, not speculators, will be paying the price. It is an extension of a narrative that has also seen end users underwrite the losses incurred by banks from dealing with speculators who skipped the country after the last crash. While interest rates fell, many mortgage customers were locked into paying rates of between 7 and 10 per cent - even when they had signed up to products sold as tracking either the Fed Funds rate or Eibor.
Many are still unable to tap more attractive deals, trapped by penalty clauses that will be triggered by a transfer of a mortgage to a rival lender. However, these practices have not yet been satisfactorily addressed by the regulator.
The new mortgage caps are part of a broader set of reforms aimed at improving the asset quality of the banking system where bad loan provisions had until recently refused to abate.
As local banks' exposure to retail mortgages is less than 5 per cent, this move will hardly improve their balance sheets.
Instead, ratings agencies are much more concerned about the level of lending among and between government-related entities, particularly in Dubai, corporate restructuring in general and the different ways banks currently account for structured loans.
Ultimately, the fundamental drag on the banking system has been the assumption that asset values (largely property-related assets) would recover quicker than they have.
"This lagging phenomenon is a key to the negative outlooks for most Dubai-based banks, despite strong recoveries in the core sectors of the economy," said Moody's Investor Service in a July 16 report on non-performing loans in the UAE banking sector.
This points to another question raised by the plan to cap loan to value ratios.
Now that asset values are finally showing signs of recovery, any move that hurts property prices could by extension hurt the value of assets that indebted companies need to sell to repay their lenders.
So this could have the unintended consequence of weakening asset quality underpinning bank lending - not improving it.
Yet beyond all of this is a more basic problem that has nothing to do with the detail of the new guidelines but is rather about the message it sends to investors and the risk premium they attach to buying property.
If there is no certainty over the rules of the game, where the goalposts are likely to end up, or which way the pitch is sloping, it should not come as a surprise if some investors decide not to play at all.


Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...ge-rule-will-strike-those-it-aims-to-protect#


----------



## TerryPop

I thought this was one of the best articles I've read from the National in a long time.

Just wanted them to know that! 





Al shali said:


> More on the decree on a 50 % market cap, good article from The National...
> 
> The New Year will bring little cheer to house hunters who, as they ushered in 2013, will have learnt they may need to double their deposits as a result of a new mortgage lending cap.
> Related
> ■ Cap on UAE mortgages threatens Dubai property recovery
> ■ Dubai property stocks down as UAE plans to cap expat mortgages
> 
> Regulation can move like a pendulum - overcorrecting weaknesses in a market and creating further structural weakness in the process. The enforced cap on loan to value ratios threatens to do just this, analysts observe.
> It emerged this week that expatriates will only be able to borrow up to 60 per cent for their first home purchase and 50 per cent for subsequent purchases. At the same time financing for Emiratis was limited to 70 per cent for the first home and 60 per cent for further properties.
> The move will hit the very people it aims to protect - home buyers saving for deposits to buy houses they want to live in.
> The aim may have been to protect the market from the excesses and exuberances of the past. But it is unlikely to achieve that outcome.
> A note from Bank of America Merrill Lynch to clients this week makes this point, warning that loan to value limits are likely to affect end-user affordability instead of curbing speculation.
> The New Year's Eve news would have landed like a bombshell for anyone in the process of buying a home and to a lesser extent anyone even thinking about it.
> For the investor buying an average three-bedroom villa in Dubai for Dh2.7 million (US$735,094) this change would mean finding an additional Dh400,000 under the mattress.
> Many mortgage-financed purchases will simply fall through - hitting prices and derailing a recovery that was beginning to boost consumer confidence in the wider economy.
> VTB Capital said that Dubai property transactions could fall by as much as 60 per cent with prices dropping 20 per cent if the guidelines were implemented in full.
> While it is sensible for the regulator to prioritise policy aimed at curbing the sort of rampant speculation that led to one of the most dramatic property crashes in the world four years ago, the collapse of house prices in 2008 was not about loan to value ratios.
> It was about an off-plan funding model that permitted multiple house purchases only on the strength of a deposit - even before a mortgage had been secured - and the onward flipping of such purchases.
> That created a 42 per cent increase in prices in a single three-month period at the start of that year. The system worked in much the same way as a pyramid scheme.
> A lack of due diligence on the part of banks and developers, the absence of credit checks on investors and a media that failed to point out that the property speculation emperor looked rather underdressed, perfected the storm.
> Four years later, many analysts have been dismayed by the trumpeting of relaunched projects by some developers and the eager phone calls to journalists alerting them to queues forming outside their offices with every new launch. Here we go again, we all thought. It was only a matter of time before the bragging brought a response from the regulator. But end users, not speculators, will be paying the price. It is an extension of a narrative that has also seen end users underwrite the losses incurred by banks from dealing with speculators who skipped the country after the last crash. While interest rates fell, many mortgage customers were locked into paying rates of between 7 and 10 per cent - even when they had signed up to products sold as tracking either the Fed Funds rate or Eibor.
> Many are still unable to tap more attractive deals, trapped by penalty clauses that will be triggered by a transfer of a mortgage to a rival lender. However, these practices have not yet been satisfactorily addressed by the regulator.
> The new mortgage caps are part of a broader set of reforms aimed at improving the asset quality of the banking system where bad loan provisions had until recently refused to abate.
> As local banks' exposure to retail mortgages is less than 5 per cent, this move will hardly improve their balance sheets.
> Instead, ratings agencies are much more concerned about the level of lending among and between government-related entities, particularly in Dubai, corporate restructuring in general and the different ways banks currently account for structured loans.
> Ultimately, the fundamental drag on the banking system has been the assumption that asset values (largely property-related assets) would recover quicker than they have.
> "This lagging phenomenon is a key to the negative outlooks for most Dubai-based banks, despite strong recoveries in the core sectors of the economy," said Moody's Investor Service in a July 16 report on non-performing loans in the UAE banking sector.
> This points to another question raised by the plan to cap loan to value ratios.
> Now that asset values are finally showing signs of recovery, any move that hurts property prices could by extension hurt the value of assets that indebted companies need to sell to repay their lenders.
> So this could have the unintended consequence of weakening asset quality underpinning bank lending - not improving it.
> Yet beyond all of this is a more basic problem that has nothing to do with the detail of the new guidelines but is rather about the message it sends to investors and the risk premium they attach to buying property.
> If there is no certainty over the rules of the game, where the goalposts are likely to end up, or which way the pitch is sloping, it should not come as a surprise if some investors decide not to play at all.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...ge-rule-will-strike-those-it-aims-to-protect#


----------



## TerryPop

*Palm Jumeirah Mall & Nakheel*

Nakheel is coming back people 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-s-nakheel-start-palm-mall-double-ibn-battuta-484245.html



Anybody else heard that the star attraction of the PJ Mall will be an even grander version of London's Madame Tussauds*?



What do you think the attraction should be, considering fountains and aquariums with Dubai Mall and ski slopes with MOE seem to draw the footfall?


----------



## agod

This is bad news, they have this terrible habit of shooting themselves in the Foot, not sure who advises them, but a Free Market should be just that, and regulations by its very Nature make it a Regulated one.

Why didnt they just make the Contract/SPA Non-Transerferrable for a Year or two that would have stopped Flipping, now, all they will have acheive in one go, is stop people buying, and running for the Hills.

A.


----------



## Abella Ivan

Dubai property prices are steady from 6 months.


----------



## noir-dresses

Is it standard practice for a realestate agent to charge the landlord five percent commision, I thought they only charge the tenant ?


----------



## True Blue

noir-dresses said:


> Is it standard practice for a realestate agent to charge the landlord five percent commision, I thought they only charge the tenant ?


^^Never heard of it happening before! Only ever heard of the tenant paying.

They charge for renewals and the charges can vary quite dramatically. Better Homes charge Landlords and tenants 500AED to renew a tenancy whereas Palma charge 3,000AED for a renewal.


----------



## amohamed69

Can we postpone it to 12/01/2013 about 12:30 pm since 09/01 is not ok for me?


----------



## flinthut

*good to hear*

40th floor is an achievement. We should be very happy that the building will soon be ready.
I for sure will be making all the extra payment.


----------



## bayern3999

anyone interested to buy a studio apartment ? if yes please contact me at [email protected]


----------



## nenumal

*West Wharf completion v/s compensation*



mlubbad said:


> when should we expect to pay the remaining 20% payment at handover?
> with over 2 years of delay in handover from the promised March 2010, wouldn't that open the chance to claim compensation from owners for that period?


Prior to look forward for a chance to claim compensation, let developer decide the final completion handover after having received their Completion certificate from DLD as per their original layouts of the project.


----------



## nenumal

AC1979 said:


> They are looking to complete asap.
> 
> Owners beware- plans have been made to delete the public pool and to greatly reduce the size of the gym. In place of the pool plans have been made to construct a townhouse.
> 
> This will greatly devalue the property, which was launched as an exclusive and high priced development.
> 
> Yes, work is in full swing.


Gr8 job for the interest of owners. I hope you are also one of the buyers!


----------



## Jesus.C

amohamed69 said:


> Can we postpone it to 12/01/2013 about 12:30 pm since 09/01 is not ok for me?


12th is a Saturday they are closed


----------



## RK_74

Hi all, I took an ill-advised gamble and purchased 2 units off plans in west wharf, business bay. Does anyone know of other who purchased units in this development who would be willing to approach Developer directly (as a collective group of investors) in relation to a discount at completion, is anyone familiar with this Developer and the best way to deal/negotiate with them? When you mention 30% discount, to what does the discount apply -- 30% off the purchase price? 

Personally given almost 3 year delay (contract delivery date: March 2010) I would like to cancel the contract on at least one of these -- not sure this is an option as (i) unlikely developer will agree (ii) the legal system seems stacked in favour of the developer and (iii) going down the legal route would be expensive and probability of success is slim. 

Any input or advice on this matter or on any of the questions above would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## nenumal

RK_74 said:


> Hi all, I took an ill-advised gamble and purchased 2 units off plans in west wharf, business bay. Does anyone know of other who purchased units in this development who would be willing to approach Developer directly (as a collective group of investors) in relation to a discount at completion, is anyone familiar with this Developer and the best way to deal/negotiate with them? When you mention 30% discount, to what does the discount apply -- 30% off the purchase price?
> 
> Personally given almost 3 year delay (contract delivery date: March 2010) I would like to cancel the contract on at least one of these -- not sure this is an option as (i) unlikely developer will agree (ii) the legal system seems stacked in favour of the developer and (iii) going down the legal route would be expensive and probability of success is slim.
> 
> Any input or advice on this matter or on any of the questions above would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, 30% off the purchase price by similar reputed developers in the area. As far as the cancellation of the contract is concerned, no developer will agree; ii) and iii) you are absolutely right. Only one positive point, in accordance with the penalty clause of 5% capping could be applicable in your favor since they have not fulfilled their obligations to handover the units, till date.


----------



## FromWarsaw

It appears that people are getting rid of their property in this project. What's the average price for 1 bed in such a project?


----------



## Docmo1

Was interested in buying a little unit (studio or 1Br) in the Marina or the JLT areas. Would appreciate advice on what and where to buy. I was hoping for something relatively cheap (although i know that might be difficult to get in these areas) preferably on some sort of payment plan (if these still exist).

Regards
Docmo1


----------



## duncheski

Whats people's guess as to when MW2 will be complete? I got an email from the developer last month stating revised completion date as being June 2013. When I'd stopped laughing i thought more realistic date to be early 2015. Given the rate of the structure to date, with a skeleton staff on site I see nothing to encourage me that they will complete the handover within 2 years. Its an absolute scandal - the govt slowing the supply of property on the market to prevent another fall in rents sounds fine in principle but has no regard for small investors like myself who not only are losing out on returns but also in my case paying the bank 6,000 dhs a month on islamic mortgage (interest only so not even paying the capital off) as the bank's 'profit'. I'm at the stage where i just want to throw some money at a lawyer, maybe risk losing another dhs 100,000 but i already spent 600,000 cash on this property and still owe the bank 1.2m as i borrowed 85% of the value. its a joke, these guys should be locked up, crooks the lot of them.


----------



## unknownpleasures

> Cap on UAE mortgages threatens Dubai property recovery
> 
> It means that homeowners who would have put down about Dh400,000 (US$67,509) for a Dh2 million property under existing market rates would need to instead fork out Dh1 million to buy the same property. Analysts say that could prove too much for many investors.



http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...e-mortgages-threatens-dubai-property-recovery


----------



## noir-dresses

Got another question, just recieved a DEWA form to fill out, but I don't know why if a tenat will have an account with them. Is this some new standard because I've never had to do this before ? From what I know all the tenant needs is the rental contract to make a new account with DEWA.


----------



## unknownpleasures

noir-dresses said:


> Got another question, just recieved a DEWA form to fill out, but I don't know why if a tenat will have an account with them. Is this some new standard because I've never had to do this before ? From what I know all the tenant needs is the rental contract to make a new account with DEWA.


Perhaps DEWA can inform you, have you tried them at all? What does the form state - the account should be in the tenants name...never heard that happen ever anywhere before...but then again who knows why this would be the case in Dubai?


http://www.dewa.gov.ae/consumers/default.aspx#10



> I want to change the landlord information for a property
> The change of Landlord information of a premise eService helps landlords to submit online requests for a change of their name in the DEWA billing system. The landlord information is essential for verification of tenancy contract issued by them for their tenants. In case of landlord name in DEWA billing system and tenancy contract name not matching, the tenancy contract may not be accepted by DEWA for registration of the tenant.


^^^^^^




> I want to submit a new tenancy contract
> UAE Nationals living in rented premises can submit new tenancy contracts online. Upon submission you receive a notification number which can be used for tracking the request. This service requires enrollment.


^^^^^	

http://www.dewa.gov.ae/default.aspx


----------



## Docmo1

I'm looking for a Studio or a little 1BR apartment. If anyone is interested in selling please pm me.

Regards
Docmo1


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Commercial banks in the UAE plan to ask the central bank to delay and soften new rules placing caps on mortgage loans for residential housing, banking industry sources said on Sunday.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/uae-banks-plan-ask-for-mortgage-cap-delay-484650.html


----------



## italiano_pellicano

the situation today in dubai for commercial places , coffes , restaurants etc etc is good ?


----------



## diku

noir-dresses said:


> Got another question, just recieved a DEWA form to fill out, but I don't know why if a tenat will have an account with them. Is this some new standard because I've never had to do this before ? From what I know all the tenant needs is the rental contract to make a new account with DEWA.


BH has done same from me, took my sign as a landlord in DEWA form, but i have seen receipt, its on Tenant's name.


----------



## SagarDubai

Dear All, 

I haven't been to the site lately, but I am planning to very soon. I will surely give you all the update for L4 and L5. 

But as of couple of days back I found out there there was NO work going on at all at L4. It seems like some contract is pending to be signed between AROMA, the main contractor and the other sub-contractors and then between them and DEC. I was given to understand by DEC last time that all this was done and they should be starting the work soon in Nov. Its Jan now and nothing is happening. We are all losing so much of money and dont even know when we are going to get the apartment. This is so disappointing. I am so pissed off with these DEC guys. They are really unprofessional and hopeless. No use complaining to RERA. They will tell us to go to the court and all this these gus at DEC know and are talking undue advantage!!


----------



## unknownpleasures

diku said:


> BH has done same from me, took my sign as a landlord in DEWA form, but i have seen receipt, its on Tenant's name.


What's BH?


----------



## bizzybonita

The developer is right about completion date which mean structurally will done by 2013 June not the finishing date which is something else that you already estimated by 2015 .
Calm down and tell me who's the small investors


----------



## diku

unknownpleasures said:


> What's BH?


Better Homes


----------



## duncheski

bizzybonita said:


> The developer is right about completion date which mean structurally will done by 2013 June not the finishing date which is something else that you already estimated by 2015 .
> Calm down and tell me who's the small investors


Revised HANDOVER date June 2013. So they gonna hand over a concrete shell?? Good work fella, very on the ball!


----------



## bizzybonita

I collect my keys on Marina Wharf I with 5 times Revised handover date ..so you got the real experiences of real estate soon you will be an expert or consult of real estate here on Dubai . :lol:


----------



## OmarPERU

*No mortgage cap: UAE Central Bank*

Governor Suwaidi says it is working on new cap system to be enforced in 9 months
By Staff
Published Monday, January 21, 2013
The Central Bank has ended controversy surrounding new caps on banks’ mortgage credit in the UAE, saying it has not yet enacted any laws in this respect.

Central Bank Governor Sultan bin Nassir Al Suwaidi, in his first comment on the issue, said he had not sent any circular in this regard to the country’s 51 banks, but added that the Central Bank is working on new cap rules.

“The Central Bank has not sent any circulars to banks asking them to enforce new cap rules for mortgage credit,” he told the semi-official daily Al Ittihad.

“We have only issued an alert to banks telling them that the Central Bank is currently preparing a new mortgage credit system, which will cap such credits. We only asked banks to brace for these rules.”

Suwaidi said the new rules could be enforced within six to nine months only after they are discussed with the country’s banks.

“What has happened here is a misunderstanding by the media. We have not issued any circular or decision in this respect. What we issued was only an alert to banks regarding new rules and criteria which they should expect,” Suwaidi said.

“The new system will lead to an increase in liquidity to the real estate sector when it is enforced. We are now planning to conduct a survey among the banks regarding the proposed cap for the mortgage credit and associated rules. After we each a proposal, it will be presented to the Central Bank’s board for approval.”

Suwaidi said the new system would boost mortgage lending in the UAE, the second largest Arab economy, as all issues related to the period of credit, monthly installments and mortgage will be clear to banks and clients.”

“This will of course open the door to banks which have been reluctant to provide mortgage credit to enter this field,” he said.

On December 31, the Central Bank was reported by the Arabic language media as telling local banks to limit their mortgage loan to expatriates to 50 per cent of the property value of the first unit and 40 per cent for the second and other units.

Credit to Emiratis was capped at 70 and 60 per cent respectively.

Unlike Saudi Arabia, the UAE, the second largest Arab economy, does not have a mortgage law but is planning to enact such legislation.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/no-mortgage-cap-uae-central-bank-2013-01-21-1.491943


----------



## baba toto

Hi

Has anybody recently visited the DEC office in Dubai? I planning a trip to Dubai... What is their office address, for customer services?

Thanks


----------



## unknownpleasures

baba toto said:


> Hi
> 
> Has anybody recently visited the DEC office in Dubai?  I planning a trip to Dubai... What is their office address, for customer services?
> 
> Thanks


Hope this helps baba toto, hopefully they haven't moved and are still there.......:cheers:

http://www.dheerajeastcoast.com/general/contactus.aspx

Contact Us
Dubai Office

Dheeraj & East Coast LLC
P. O. Box 333 876,
DUBAI, UAE

Telephone + ( 9714 ) 379 1630
Fax + ( 9714 ) 379 1631
Toll Free 800 3322
Email [email protected]

There's also a UK office>>> 

UK Office

53-55 Uxbridge Road
Ealing
London
W5 5SA

Telephone + (44) 020 8579 1711
Fax + (44) 020 85672786
Email [email protected]
Office Timing


----------



## unknownpleasures

italiano_pellicano said:


> this is a good moment for buy in Dubai ?


^^ If you don't mind me asking, where did you hear this?


----------



## ptan

Hi everyone, I have only just heard of this development and it sounds interesting. I know the 4 bedrooms are now available for occupation and some are also available for rent. I have been by and seen the 4 bedrooms and the villas really look good.

We were thinking of buying a villa in this project, as opposed to buying one in the Meadows (which is an area I am more familliar with). We currently live in the Springs but need more space and the kids go to school in Umm Suqeim, so this seems convenient and I like the location and the look of the villas. Would anyone recommend buying a villa in this project and please let me know if you are thinking of selling one. Any further background on the project will be helpful too as I have not heard anything about this one before. I stayed up till 2am last night and read this entire post on this development so I am familiar with what has been written. 

Can anyone tell me what the 4 and 5 bedrooms were selling for when they were launched and what they were recently selling for as well? What would be a good price to buy them for now? For me the things that are important is that the villa is completed and ready to move into by the summer and that there are is community infrastructure like parks etc as I have young kids. Would you recommend this devleopment over buying a villa in the Meadows?

I would be very grateful for any help or advice.


----------



## amr81mohammed

nice


----------



## UAE Investor

No mortgage cap: Some UAE banks back to offering 80-85% with immediate effect

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-85-with-immediate-effect-2013-01-22-1.492046

Great news!


----------



## UAE Investor

Thought this interesting....to be trusted ?

With an increase of 65 per cent in the number of transactions in 2012, the Dubai real estate sector will continue to shift up a gear in 2013, ex

http://www.emirates247.com/dubai-re...pocket+offers+'instant+love'&utm_medium=email


----------



## Bradpole

*Current state of L4*

Hi everybody,

I have some photos taken yesterday, which I will try to add to this - apologies if this doesn't happen.

The photos clearly show that there has been no work done since DEC added their own photos to their website in August (I think it was August).

I am about to email Sunil at DEC to see what he has to say and suggest you all do the same.

Rumour has it that Lawns 2 is now two stories out of the ground, which is interesting if you, like me, have switched to L4 because they said it was cancelled.

I hope to be in Dubai in February or March - anyone else there at that time?

Regards,
David

P.S. can anyone tell me how to upload photos?


----------



## dpgdubai

Watch out for the properties in al - khail gate , It is located conveniently near the nation’s significant business district, Al quoz staff accommodation provides modern housing for the work force. 

Visit
http://dubaipropertiesgroup.ae/en/properties/Al-Quoz-Staff-Accommodation

For more information related to DUBAI PROPERTIES GROUP, visit http://dubaipropertiesgroup.ae


----------



## SagarDubai

Hi Baba Toto, DEC moved from their old office to a large spacious office on the sheikh zayed road (in the direction towards Abu Dhabi). They are in the Sunrise Building (OK furniture building). You can see their sign board from the highway. Its very clsoe to the Noor Islamic Bank. The tel number given by unknown pleasures is correct. Pls visit them, speak to them and let us all know the updates. 

As far as I know they have not done any work at Lawns 2. I dont trust the rumour. I will visit L2 when I go again to L4 and L5 and let u all know. 

The bottom line is that we are all stuck in limbo!! They keep saying that the work will start and it will start soon.... the question is when ????????????


----------



## SagarDubai

I meant Noor Islamic Bank Metro Station and not "Noor Islamic Bank"


----------



## Monument

italiano_pellicano said:


> this is a good moment for buy in Dubai ?


It was a good time to buy in 2011. Prices are now beginning to stretch.


----------



## v8_

Monument said:


> It was a good time to buy in 2011. Prices are now beginning to stretch.


True, those who were buying in 2011 are happy as anything. Some of them have even actualized the profits by selling their properties now, earning some huge capital gains. Even till mid-2012, it was good time to buy. 
I still forecast 10-15% increase in property prices in 2013. Let's see.


----------



## MMDXB

if DEC really would have started some work on LAWNS 2 it would means they are the biggest player, since then they would have avoided the Cancelation Status from RERA and they would just build till the point where next payment is due and then stop.....

I have the fear something like this happen to Lawns 4 right now....

SagarDubai could you please have a look also for Lawns 2 otherwise inbox me your number and when you plan next time to go there we could go together.

Thanks a lot


----------



## unknownpleasures

v8_ said:


> True, those who were buying in 2011 are happy as anything. Some of them have even actualized the profits by selling their properties now, earning some huge capital gains. Even till mid-2012, it was good time to buy.
> I still forecast 10-15% increase in property prices in 2013. Let's see.


Hi there, I'm just wondering whereabouts in Dubai all these happy people purchased. I must have been away when the news broke......:cheers:


----------



## metlofts123

Whatever happened to the investor protection law that the media have been *talking* about for what seems likes decades now??


----------



## baba toto

SagarDubai said:


> Hi Baba Toto, DEC moved from their old office to a large spacious office on the sheikh zayed road (in the direction towards Abu Dhabi). They are in the Sunrise Building (OK furniture building). You can see their sign board from the highway. Its very clsoe to the Noor Islamic Bank. The tel number given by unknown pleasures is correct.


SugarDubai: I'm confused. The DEC website mentions Indigo Central 3 Building:

http://www.dheerajeastcoast.com/general/LocationMap.aspx

Is it Indigo building per the DEC website, Sunrise building or furniture building per your reply??, and do you know their complete address?


----------



## True Blue

metlofts123 said:


> Whatever happened to the investor protection law that the media have been *talking* about for what seems likes decades now??


The property laws that have been introduced to date have favoured the developers allowing them to bully the investors and take their properties from them. Developers get to cancel contracts and pocket the money despite being years late.

On balance, investors were probably better off when it was unregulated. Anyone considering buying off plan today must be crazy.


----------



## metlofts123

^^

Agreed, off plan is long dead. But surely unless they change their tune *pronto* and make a long overdue start at considering investors interests and other such basic factors as simple justice and control of market players, surely the whole market's potential will continue to be unnecessarily subdued other than the occasional flurries by some unaware (yet clearly completely unprotected) investors?


----------



## UAE Investor

re this ^^

I complained ... not invited to the sale ( based in the uk ),have POA in Dubai..

"Can you give me contact number of your POA here in Dubai?
He has to come tomorrow at 8am in EMAAR sales office, if you want to buy at low premium.
People are selling tokens today, tomorrow it will be sale at premium.
I will be there at 7.30am."

Quick flip in the off, by the sounds of it !

think there,s profit @ 2500 sqft ?


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...get-villain-uae-residents-2013-01-26-1.492481



> Forty-one per cent of those who voted (167 readers) picked rent as the one that is likely to cause them the maximum damage.
> 
> With rents in most areas on the rise, it is evident why it tops the list.


If it's such a boom town at present....what's the excuse of so many projects still on hold! hno:


----------



## haseeb_eng

zukihippo, definitely you can check regarding this law with dubai land department. I had asked some real estate companies and developers as well regarding this law and got the same information.


----------



## axe2grind

*FROM THE PROPHET OF DOOM*



skinnygirl said:


> Axe...in answer to your questions:
> 
> 1) Completion and handover scheduled for end of 2013. See announcement in 24/7.
> 
> 2) The pyramids took much longer to build! Surely even you know that? If not, look it up! These over inflated negative comments do you no favours.
> 
> 3) If you read the announcement in 24/7, you will see that Enshaa have slowed down construction in line with the delays of the infrastructure implementation by DPG. There would have been no point in Completing any earlier and then asking investors for the final payment if there were no utilities etc. Or, would you have preferred that?
> Also, the prices are now starting to rise and will hopefully continue to do so as a result of which the investors will benefit by the end of the year.
> 
> Putting all that to one side, I'm sure you and all the other prophets of doom who said it would never be Completed will now rejoice with me in the good news. And...needless to say "I told you so!"


This reply took you over 2 months but is in keeping with the general delay attitude surrounding this project. I'll believe it when I see it and can walk into the hotel.

You have provided no less than 8 other guesses, predictions, logical analysis on the completion of PV and none have been remotely accurate, repeat NONE have been accurate. 

If this project should be complete by 31st December 2013, and its a big IF, then it will be exactly 4 years and 3 months late. Thats absolutely nothing to be proud of and is exactly why 70% of the original investors in this development have stopped making payments and Emirates Sunland/Enshaa have been busily cancelling contracts at RERA and keeping all of the investors money and re-selling to new investors. Nice business if you can get it.

What I find staggering is that you know say that Enshaa have slowed completion in line with the infrastructure implementation by DPG. Well I think you have been moving at slightly quicker rate than that as DPG stopped 4 years ago and nothing has happened since end of 2008. 

No details of how completion by this date have been provided by Skinnygirl so here are some more questions for her to provide answers to :-

1. Where is mains electrical power coming from?
2. Where is the air-conditioning coming from?
3. Where are the water, drainage and telephone services coming from.
4. Are all 169 hotel apartments going to be fully finished and ready for occupation?
5. Is the hotel going to be completed and ready for use?
6. Is the marina going to be completed and ready for use?
7. Is the boatyard going to be relocated?

The answers will probably come in another 24/7 article and we all be expected to believe it. Sorry to say it Skinnygirl but your credibility was shot a long time ago.


----------



## nirajdisha

I need an apartment in MYTOWER is anybody interested to sell please inform me URGENTLY.


----------



## Towers3

Datok said:


> yes friend your assumption is true and correct, but you don't know the meaning of your assumption, as you say they are having cash problem, and if so, then we should pay them on time, and let them work smoothly.


the


----------



## UAE Investor

Towers3 said:


> Hi:
> 
> Still having a cash flow problem?


this one seems to have stopped (not that it ever started !)

Frankfurt sports tower is flying though...

loads of investors escrow cash to get at there ?

Hope it gets done, if only for Rob T.


:cheers:


----------



## True Blue

UAE Investor said:


> re this ^^
> 
> I complained ... not invited to the sale ( based in the uk ),have POA in Dubai..
> 
> "Can you give me contact number of your POA here in Dubai?
> He has to come tomorrow at 8am in EMAAR sales office, if you want to buy at low premium.
> People are selling tokens today, tomorrow it will be sale at premium.
> I will be there at 7.30am."
> 
> *Quick flip in the off, by the sounds of it !*
> 
> think there,s profit @ 2500 sqft ?


Don't come crying here when you get burned!

It was speculators and flippers that ruined the market back in 2007-8. No one knew what the real price of anything was at that time due to sheer speculation and avarice.


----------



## axe2grind

I've tried contacting the offices of Memon Real Estate who were located at M-02 Business Avenue tel. 04-2989000. Telephone is dead. Does anyone know where Memon have moved to or have they just done a RUNNER!!!!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Hahahahah.....when you have this here in Dubai already why on earth would anyone dream up of a scam like DSC with all it's bs :sly: off plans! The majority of real people got burned big time! 

And 15 minutes from Dubai Marina...and you have this....

http://www.jaresortshotels.com/Properties/JAGR/Golf/Overview/ChallengeMatch.aspx


----------



## unknownpleasures

The events Calendar....not one event is featured in DSC...funny that! :lol::lol::lol:

http://www.dubaicalendar.ae/en


----------



## True Blue

^^ Still waiting on a big football event at DSC. They promised great things but nothing yet to draw the crowds.

Well here is a great opportunity. The Old Firm Derby of Rangers v Celtic is rated as the 3rd biggest derby match in the world. Due to Rangers being punished and dropped to the lower leagues, the 2 teams are unlikely to face each other for a few more years. Why does DCS not offer these cash strapped clubs some money to come and play for a challenge trophy? Even throw a few other big names into the mix to make it a crowd pulling tournament, maybe Liverpool and Everton, Tottenham and West Ham. Could squeeze it in during the winter break.

I know there are millions of Old firm fans around the world and also thousands of Rangers and Celtic fans in Dubai alone. So the time is right to steal the headlines. Dubai, are you big enough?


----------



## arfie

True Blue said:


> ^^ Still waiting on a big football event at DSC. They promised great things but nothing yet to draw the crowds.
> 
> Well here is a great opportunity. The Old Firm Derby of Rangers v Celtic is rated as the 3rd biggest derby match in the world. Due to Rangers being punished and dropped to the lower leagues, the 2 teams are unlikely to face each other for a few more years. Why does DCS not offer these cash strapped clubs some money to come and play for a challenge trophy? Even throw a few other big names into the mix to make it a crowd pulling tournament, maybe Liverpool and Everton, Tottenham and West Ham. Could squeeze it in during the winter break.
> 
> I know there are millions of Old firm fans around the world and also thousands of Rangers and Celtic fans in Dubai alone. So the time is right to steal the headlines. Dubai, are you big enough?


NO WAY a Rangers vs Celtic game will draw crowds in Dubai. Only place where Rangers vs Celtic is of any interest is Scotland sorry!! With there being no winter break getting Premiership teams is very unlikely.


----------



## UAE Investor

True Blue said:


> Don't come crying here when you get burned!
> 
> It was speculators and flippers that ruined the market back in 2007-8. No one knew what the real price of anything was at that time due to sheer speculation and avarice.


:lol::lol:

No intention of it, lets just say i did a bit of under cover work !

Just shows the money men/women are still out there..



> If you have received Regret e-mail from EMAAR, then you can not enter the sale office until all other people with confirmed token finish.
> If there are any units left after than of course you can buy. People are asking premium already, people who has gotten early numbers and willing to sell at premium.


Seems like a i can buy now,but only at a premium...

God i,m so slow ..i could,nt catch a cold ?
(well i can but..)

All crazy ,but maybe SSC is a negative place ...

Maybe Dubai is all go..and we can,t see it !

Maybe its all BS..

http://www.zawya.com/story/Dubais_cautious_comeback-ZAWYA20130114121052/


----------



## True Blue

arfie said:


> NO WAY a Rangers vs Celtic game will draw crowds in Dubai. *Only place where Rangers vs Celtic is of any interest is Scotland sorry!!* With there being no winter break getting Premiership teams is very unlikely.


Completely disagree. 

Rangers and celtic draw crowds from all over the world when they go on summer mid season tours. I went to New York and watched Rangers playing in a tournament with Brazilian teams Santos and River Plate and American MLS teams Chicago Fire and some others that I can't remember at this time. The Giants stadium holds 80k plus and it was around 60% full. USA is a fairly disinterested country for football but they got bums on seats and the tickets weren't cheap.

It wouldn't work in Dubai in summer due to the heat.


----------



## arfie

True Blue said:


> Completely disagree.
> 
> Rangers and celtic draw crowds from all over the world when they go on summer mid season tours. I went to New York and watched Rangers playing in a tournament with Brazilian teams Santos and River Plate and American MLS teams Chicago Fire and some others that I can't remember at this time. The Giants stadium holds 80k plus and it was around 60% full. USA is a fairly disinterested country for football but they got bums on seats and the tickets weren't cheap.
> 
> It wouldn't work in Dubai in summer due to the heat.


Disagree with you USA is not disinterested in football. All the main premiership and la Liga teams visit America for pre-season and crowds are usually pretty good nowadays hence why alot of teams go over there. Rangers vs Celtic just would not work in dubai. You want to bring abit of quality which Celtic and Rangers clearly aren't!


----------



## UAE Investor

axe2grind said:


> I've tried contacting the offices of Memon Real Estate who were located at M-02 Business Avenue tel. 04-2989000. Telephone is dead. Does anyone know where Memon have moved to or have they just done a RUNNER!!!!


Whats the script towers...have they done one...?


----------



## dubailawyer123

I'm looking for a Studio or a 1BR apartment. If anyone is interested in selling please pm me.


----------



## Monument

UAE Investor said:


> :lol::lol:
> 
> No intention of it, lets just say i did a bit of under cover work !
> 
> Just shows the money men/women are still out there..
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like a i can buy now,but only at a premium...
> 
> God i,m so slow ..i could,nt catch a cold ?
> (well i can but..)
> 
> All crazy ,but maybe SSC is a negative place ...
> 
> Maybe Dubai is all go..and we can,t see it !
> 
> Maybe its all BS..
> 
> http://www.zawya.com/story/Dubais_cautious_comeback-ZAWYA20130114121052/


Property prices in Dubai are stretching for one reason - it is the one of the few places in the region "people" feel comfortable investing. And there is a lot of money sloshing around the region looking for a safe home. Almost all other places feel insecure or impossible. That does not mean it is entirely safe in terms of its legal safeguards nor economic governance. Just better than its regional neighbours.


----------



## True Blue

arfie said:


> Disagree with you USA is not disinterested in football. All the main premiership and la Liga teams visit America for pre-season and crowds are usually pretty good nowadays hence why alot of teams go over there. Rangers vs Celtic just would not work in dubai. You want to bring abit of quality which Celtic and Rangers clearly aren't!


I'm not going to let you away with that final statement. I don't mind people having opinions but just making nasty statements for the sake of it doesn't win your argument. One of those teams is currently in the last 16 of the champions league. You don't get there on the strength of one good result against Barcelona. The other was recently in the finals of the UEFA cup. The only teams in England that have achieved the same standard have had to spend 20 times more money to bring in over paid fannies from anywhere but England.

http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/stories/classicderby/news/newsid=1023776.html

Rangers v Celtic holds the record for a league attendance. FACT!
Rangers home games currently against 3rd division teams still attract bigger crowds than the vast majority of Premiership games. FACT! 
Rangers season ticket sales this season are in excess of 38,000. FACT!

Based on your closing statement you CLEARLY don't know any facts about the OLD Firm.

Post Script, The English leagues are full of ex Rangers and Celtic players managing your over rated clubs. Why could that possibly be?


----------



## unknownpleasures

Memon do not have updates of their projects for a long time.....check their website! Wasn't this one somewhere like back in 2011? It's 2013 now! Hellooooooooooooooo! Wakey wakey....uke:


----------



## Josau

nirajdisha said:


> I need an apartment in MYTOWER is anybody interested to sell please inform me URGENTLY.


So you need URGENTLY an apartment for in about 15 years? Interesting.


----------



## True Blue

arfie said:


> Usual TB NONSENSE  Old firm derbies only matter in Scotland mate :bash:
> 
> You living in cooky land to think Dubai would exploit the possibility of an old firm match in DSC!!!!!


Instead of repeating the same unsubstantiated bollox, try and come up with some facts on the matter. 

I gave you a link from FIFA's web site stating that it was one of the most important fixtures in the world. Their isn't a country in the modern world that doesn't screen the matches. Give me some counter evidence instead of your personal opinion on Scottish football?

Dubai is always portraying itself as a new venue of major sporting events. We have the Golf, the Tennis, The cricket and the Rugby Sevens. How does it propose to tackle an entry into major name football challenge trophies? Here is a perfect opportunity!

Arfie, if you don't know the answer then please refrain from your continual defamation of the Scottish game.


----------



## True Blue

nirajdisha said:


> I need an apartment in MYTOWER is anybody interested to sell please inform me URGENTLY.





Josau said:


> So you need URGENTLY an apartment for in about 15 years? Interesting.


I didn't take the bait on that one as it's the kind of post that looks suspiciously like psychological marketing. 

All the evidence and bad press contained on this thread should be enough to ward off any sensible interest in this developer. Unless someone comes along and demonstrates sudden desperation to buy. Makes people curious


----------



## arfie

True Blue said:


> Instead of repeating the same unsubstantiated bollox, try and come up with some facts on the matter.
> 
> I gave you a link from FIFA's web site stating that it was one of the most important fixtures in the world. Their isn't a country in the modern world that doesn't screen the matches. Give me some counter evidence instead of your personal opinion on Scottish football?
> 
> Dubai is always portraying itself as a new venue of major sporting events. We have the Golf, the Tennis, The cricket and the Rugby Sevens. How does it propose to tackle an entry into major name football challenge trophies? Here is a perfect opportunity!
> 
> Arfie, if you don't know the answer then please refrain from your continual defamation of the Scottish game.


Yeap TB Dubai is always portraying itself as venue for MAJOR SPORTING EVENTS!! The old firm derby is no major sporting event outside Scotland even more so now that Rangers are no longer in the premier division!! You are intelligent enough to know Scottish game is in a mess so its one of the last things the DSC authorities would think of to raise profile!!!


----------



## n7chap

Has any landlord put up the rent on their apartment ignoring the Rera law on rent increases? 

Has anyone been taken to court by their tenant?

I have an apartment in JLT with a long term tenant and can't up the rent up. The Rera index does seem to keep up with what us going on in terms of rental movements.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Maybe this advice from TB will help you :dunno:



True Blue said:


> It's surprising how many people who are RERA registered agents and who don't understand the laws regulating their domain. I am having this issue with BH as they said last year that I was unable to increase my rent in the first year "that is the law". Seems not!
> 
> http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/english/Tanzeem/Rentals/Rental_Indicator.aspx
> 
> 
> 
> The key is the fact that Law no 62 was passed for rents that existed before the end of 2010 and were to be renewed in 2011. If the rental commenced in 2011 then it is not a renewal and therefore the law can not be applied. *It specifically states that it only covers renewals in 2011* and not renewals in general therefore it can not be applied to renewals in 2012 or 2013. Consequently, if you try to use the increase calculator for renewals happening in 2013 it just returns an error, "calculator is updating data" or something like that.
> 
> This seems to have been allowed to lapse as there was no need for it any more. Rents fell in 2010/11 and therefore the authorities saw no need to maintain it. Now rents are on the increase again, there may be calls to amend law 62.
> 
> In the meantime you must give your tenant 90 days notice of an increase to the rental during which time if the tenant does not feel the increase is fair, then they have the right to take the dispute to the rent tribunal for a decision.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Property prices in Dubai record 30% growth in 2012: Hamptons MENA report*



> The Dubai real estate sector has recorded a price increase of up to 30% in the premier locations during 2012, according to Hamptons MENA, the premier property services company.
> 
> The Hamptons MENA 2012 property report records that on average property prices increased by 20 to 30% across the market, while well-established neighbourhoods such as Downtown Dubai and The Palm Jumeirah witnessed an upward trend in price to the range of 30%.
> 
> The most significant price increase was noted for villas, such as in Arabian Ranches, the masterplanned community by Emaar Properties, which led the growth in values during the year. High-end apartments in Downtown Dubai and Emirates Living also reported price appreciation, highlighting the growing investor confidence led by a buoyant market.
> 
> ........


http://www.ameinfo.com/property-prices-dubai-record-30-growth-327661


----------



## GTR11

This is the same company that in 2007 was boasting about having dozens of projects under construction, I know at least 5 of them have been cancelled.


----------



## haseeb_eng

chempharm i have properties in this project and other projects in Dubai.I am keeping a close eye on this project and the future looks good. Dubai Land department had make new rules to protect investors, land lords and tenants. Me being Dubai resident is experiencing all these new rules and we can sense that this is betterment for everybody.

Moreover if you go to JLT area you will find SAQRAN tower is the only tower under construction on the east side. All the other towers are handed over + it is right infront of metro station.


----------



## UAE Investor

Dubai's dire financial forecasts fail to materialise
Lunch-time in Dubai, and it was as if the crash never happened.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-financial-forecasts-fail-to-materialise.html


----------



## TerryPop

*Market predictions*

As this is the investor bit of the forum....

where do you guys/gals think the market is heading?

There has definitely been a bounce but many properties are still no where near their peak?

*For example (these are the ones i know about)*

Apartments on the palm that nakheel were selling for 6 million months before the collapse (or between 4 to 5 mill in the secondry market) in 2008 are still in the region of 2.5-3million (marina residences in this case).

Also apartments in Discovery Gardens peaked with mortgages at 1.2 million aed and around 900,000 without a loan facility!! 

These are currently just selling for just over 500,000 AED (admittedly still rising)

So..

Is the market going to keep its run and recover to those sorts of levels? is the next few years a definite growth cycle in Dubai property?

Any experiences by you, of 2008 peak prices and where prices are now would be interesting to hear about.

*Here's one:*:nuts:

_I recall a friend who had a floor of office space in JLT. It was early 2008 and he had a buyer at 1600 aed psf. He didn't make the initial signing of the agreement b/c he was 'too hungover' (he actually told them so)

Eventually they met and he sold, and when the market crashed prices tumbled in JLT to as low as 350 aed psf. 

As we waded through the following years of the crisis he would often recall this story and we'd end up in fits of laughter/tears about how crazy the market once was_


----------



## Dubai_Steve

From may 2008



True Blue said:


> Latest figures from Alineah website indicate current average in the marina of AED1900/ft2 up from AED1500/ft2 in January.


What is the current average now AED 1150 maybe?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Sheikh Zayed Road corridor to remain investor and end-user favourite in 2013*



> Sheikh Zayed Road corridor will continue to remain attractive for end-users and investors in 2013, but Jumeirah Lake Towers (JLT) development will be the main beneﬁciary of the expected economic and population growth in Dubai.
> 
> “Given the current infrastructure in Business Bay, JLT will continue to benefit from new business formations with a corresponding increase in residential and retail segment due to its status as a free zone and freehold community which will attract SMEs and middle income professionals and entrepreneurs,” Sameer Lakhani, Managing Director, Unitas Consultancy, told Emirates 24/7.
> 
> .......


http://www.emirates247.com/property...nd-user-favourite-in-2013-2013-01-31-1.493272


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/bett...s-on-property-ads-485726.html?parentID=485958 

15 January, 2013



> Top Dubai estate agent Better Homes has been running false information on a number of its property advertisements, an investigation by Arabian Business can reveal.
> 
> The advertisements – all appearing on the company’s website – make a number of claims regarding the Palm Jumeirah development, including non-existent shopping centres, access to leisure facilities that were never built, and even claims that the Dubai Metro runs through the development.
> 
> .....


^^^^^^^^^^^
Says here people were being misled by the advertisements (comments also state not just BH did this)....who's to say this isn't happening all over again.....pushing the latest mega project is nothing more than what happened in the past....this is all about the market...it's important to raise awareness of what has gone on! Good work by AB to expose this....more has to happen.. Thanks for shortening the quoted article Parisian Girl, I should have kept to the rules but saw someone else's quoted in full above and thought it was allowed on here :cheers: kay:


----------



## Pleth

UAE Investor said:


> Dubai's dire financial forecasts fail to materialise
> Lunch-time in Dubai, and it was as if the crash never happened.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-financial-forecasts-fail-to-materialise.html


Absolutely!


----------



## dime01

heard that this project is been canceled from land dept and now land is for auction... any once has any concrete news


----------



## True Blue

TerryPop said:


> As this is the investor bit of the forum....
> 
> where do you guys/gals think the market is heading?
> 
> There has definitely been a bounce but many properties are still no where near their peak?
> 
> *For example (these are the ones i know about)*
> 
> Apartments on the palm that nakheel were selling for 6 million months before the collapse (or between 4 to 5 mill in the secondry market) in 2008 are still in the region of 2.5-3million (marina residences in this case).
> 
> Also apartments in Discovery Gardens peaked with mortgages at 1.2 million aed and around 900,000 without a loan facility!!
> 
> These are currently just selling for just over 500,000 AED (admittedly still rising)
> 
> So..
> 
> Is the market going to keep its run and recover to those sorts of levels? is the next few years a definite growth cycle in Dubai property?
> 
> Any experiences by you, of 2008 peak prices and where prices are now would be interesting to hear about.
> 
> *Here's one:*:nuts:
> 
> _I recall a friend who had a floor of office space in JLT. It was early 2008 and he had a buyer at 1600 aed psf. He didn't make the initial signing of the agreement b/c he was 'too hungover' (he actually told them so)
> 
> Eventually they met and he sold, and when the market crashed prices tumbled in JLT to as low as 350 aed psf.
> 
> As we waded through the following years of the crisis he would often recall this story and we'd end up in fits of laughter/tears about how crazy the market once was_


This is a new phase of the Dubai Property Market and it is now driven by real world market intelligence. In the early years the only information we had on developments were "location" and "developer status", the developer either being an independent private entity or a government owned entity.

This has all evolved now and has grown new shoots. In the examples you refer to above one of the key factors in the suppressed growths is the name NAKHEEL. There is no other reason on earth that Marina Residence on the Palm should be so cheap other than it is developed by Nakheel.

Nakheel now means complete uncertainty and guaranteed surprises, the unwelcome type of surprise. They have the lowest customer satisfaction record and are well known for bully boy tactics. RERA promised they would make them comply with the JOP regulations but have only had limited success to date. Nakheel were also known for having a poor regime of controlling their contractors. They did not pursue quality, had a bad payment record and today many of their developments are plagued with defects. 

Emaar on the other hand are seen as being the polar opposite of Nakheel. Their villa and apartment developments are maintaining value and growing well. Their customers are far more content with the services and management of their communities. 

The market for well run communities will continue to grow and others will remain stagnant as the residents seek to relocate from their woes.


----------



## Canard

Barracuda said:


> I wanna sell my Decora, anyone can suggest a good agent?


What price?


----------



## Spurs

Could say the same for Dubai Properties who never built the promised beach park / gyms for JBR and are clearly in bed with Empower who charge ridicules amounts for the air-con. I doubt their customer satisfaction survey scores very high.


----------



## Morteza.a

...


----------



## unknownpleasures

My question about the market is who is this mob >>> http://onvizio.com/


----------



## Old Town Resident

baba toto said:


> SugarDubai: I'm confused. The DEC website mentions Indigo Central 3 Building:
> 
> http://www.dheerajeastcoast.com/general/LocationMap.aspx
> 
> Is it Indigo building per the DEC website, Sunrise building or furniture building per your reply??, and do you know their complete address?


The DEC, SZR office has had tumbleweed blowing through it for years.


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.emirates247.com/news/rel...erty-lifeline-initiatives-2013-01-30-1.493112

Where are these projects they claim ....why don't they name them?



> In the base prospectus, released on January 17, Real Estate Regulatory Agency, the regulatory arm of Dubai Land Department (DLD) said 187 projects have been completed since the beginning of 2009; 253 projects are on hold; 232 projects are likely to be completed in due course......
> 
> No information was given on cancelled projects. But it was reported last year that 217 projects had been cancelled as of May 31, 2011.
> 
> A total of 154 projects had been reviewed under the Tayseer programme, launched in July 2010, of which 40 projects qualified under the required criteria.
> 
> These criteria require that projects have adequate infrastructure planned or in place; the escrow trust account is properly managed and financial reporting is full and timely; the technical report must show that a minimum of 60 per cent of construction is completed and that a minimum of 60 per cent of the project is sold.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> December 2013??? Seriously doubt it will be close.


That was from a Dubai estate agents website.

Select Property UK are currently advertising this as Q1 2014, so by April 2014.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Abu Dhabi rents shoot up as government workers relocate from Dubai*



> Rents in Abu Dhabi's prime areas have risen by as much as 25 per cent over the past six months as the city experiences an influx of Abu Dhabi government workers living in Dubai.
> 
> According to the property agent Cluttons, average rents in some of the city's most exclusive areas have increased by 10 to 25 per cent during the past six months, following a decree last year that could result in government departments cutting housing allowances for employees living outside the emirate and as renters flock to newer schemes.


http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...-up-as-government-workers-relocate-from-dubai


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/uae-...on-property-flippers--487594.html?tab=Article



> The real estate industry is concerned that the quick turnover of properties still under construction causes prices to escalate based on speculation, while buyers risk being defrauded.
> 
> “Real estate developers like flippers because they make money; if you ask the banks we like genuine buyers who use it for his own home, that’s what will really stabilise society, [when] everybody has a house,” Al Ghurair said.


About time the RE industry practiced what they preached! A flipper cannot sell something on their own now can they without the assistance of the people they first purchased from right? The nationals don't flip properties, they would have access far greater than anyone else, interesting comment made there on this article!


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emir...02-06-1.493973



> Only one out of the nine properties that went under the hammer at the first private auction held by Dubai Land Department (DLD) was sold, people present at the auction told Emirates 24|7.
> 
> The only property sold was a residential apartment in Dorra Bay in Dubai Marina. It was purchased at the listed price of Dh1.6 million.
> 
> “There was only one bidder for the property,” a property agent, who wished not be named, said.
> 
> The land plots were on Palm Jumeirah and listed for Dh13.187 million each.
> 
> “Since it was a full house, we though all the properties would be sold out. But all were there to see if people would by at the listed price. Unfortunately, there were none,” the agent
> 
> Last week, Emirates 24|7 reported that the DLD will no longer be holding auctions for foreclosed properties, but will sell properties for developers and unit owners through private auctions.


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.emirates247.com/high-end...e-priciest-in-middle-east-2013-02-04-1.493769



> Globally, capital holds 23rd position, while Dubai is ranked 35th in ECA accommodation report
> By
> 
> Parag Deulgaonkar
> 
> Published Monday, February 04, 2013
> 
> Abu Dhabi was the most expensive city in the Middle East to rent a high-end three-bedroom apartment last year, according to a new report.


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/uae-banks-confirm-75-mortgage-cap-wish-488524.html



> Emirati banks have formally asked the UAE Central Bank to cap mortgages at 75 percent of property value for expats and at 80 percent for UAE nationals.


----------



## sidxb

Dubai_Steve said:


> http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...-up-as-government-workers-relocate-from-dubai



I believe its a wrong precedent set by the capital and it exists for sometime. A friend of mine was informed by his AD based govt related company in 2008 that if he wants to receive the allowance then he should rent a place in AD. So the rule exists for few years but its made official now and enforced through govt residency offices. 

However , since the precedent is now set , I wonder what would happen if similar announcement is made by Dubai ? With the influx of people from Sharjah , the rents would become unbearable. Needless to say that when the differences are huge than people always find workarounds for the regulations. I know people who have rented place in Abu dhabi for visa renewal purpose , sub-let the place and living in Dubai.


----------



## unknownpleasures

> Debt-ridden developer Nakheel is “evaluating finance options” in a bid to raise nearly US$900m needed to fund its latest Palm Jumeirah retail developments, a spokesperson told the Bloomberg news wire on Sunday.





> The new development - part of Nakheel's retail expansion strategy - was endorsed by Dubai ruler Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum last weekend.
> 
> The indebted developer said Nakheel Mall is already drawing interest from global and local retailers.
> 
> Construction will start this year and is expected to take about three years to complete.



^^^^^^^^
Look out the red lights are flashing!!

:badnews:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/nakheel-eyes-2016-opening-for-new-680m-mall--488720.html

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/duba...ing-for-900m-palm-retail-projects-488190.html


----------



## skinnygirl

axe2grind said:


> This reply took you over 2 months but is in keeping with the general delay attitude surrounding this project. I'll believe it when I see it and can walk into the hotel.
> 
> You have provided no less than 8 other guesses, predictions, logical analysis on the completion of PV and none have been remotely accurate, repeat NONE have been accurate.
> 
> If this project should be complete by 31st December 2013, and its a big IF, then it will be exactly 4 years and 3 months late. Thats absolutely nothing to be proud of and is exactly why 70% of the original investors in this development have stopped making payments and Emirates Sunland/Enshaa have been busily cancelling contracts at RERA and keeping all of the investors money and re-selling to new investors. Nice business if you can get it.
> 
> What I find staggering is that you know say that Enshaa have slowed completion in line with the infrastructure implementation by DPG. Well I think you have been moving at slightly quicker rate than that as DPG stopped 4 years ago and nothing has happened since end of 2008.
> 
> No details of how completion by this date have been provided by Skinnygirl so here are some more questions for her to provide answers to :-
> 
> 1. Where is mains electrical power coming from?
> 2. Where is the air-conditioning coming from?
> 3. Where are the water, drainage and telephone services coming from.
> 4. Are all 169 hotel apartments going to be fully finished and ready for occupation?
> 5. Is the hotel going to be completed and ready for use?
> 6. Is the marina going to be completed and ready for use?
> 7. Is the boatyard going to be relocated?
> 
> The answers will probably come in another 24/7 article and we all be expected to believe it. Sorry to say it Skinnygirl but your credibility was shot a long time ago.


Axe, there you go again with all your negative views. Think positively, it's going to be Completed and the prices are starting to rise. A lot better than several other projects in Dubai.

If you really want to know the answers to all your questions above, why not call Enshaa? If you're an investor or potential investor they'll give you the answers. If, you're neither, well they will probably tell you to stop wasting their time. 

No one is disputing that construction has been delayed but do you really believe investors would have been better off if they had been made to pay the full price two years ago when the market was at its lowest? 

As I have said before, construction has been delayed because of the infrastructure delays. If you read the SAP (assuming you have one!?) you will see that Enshaa can't handover the properties until the utilities are connected and working. Therefore, they would have been pretty stupid to have continued construction and incurred the costs that go with it, if that meant they Completed two years before they could do the handovers. 

So the good news is that Enshaa are obviously now confident that the infrastructures/utilities will be in place in time for the estimated handover at the end of this year. If you don't believe it then call Enshaa. It is not in their interests to to Complete without the utlities so why would they fool themselves?

You obviously don't like the situation but this is the reality and given the circumstances it's probably the best scenario for both the investors and the developer. 
Or, perhaps we should pretend the crash in 2008 never happened and continue to stamp our feet like spoiled children?


----------



## Bradpole

*In Dubai on Lawns biusiness*

Hi everyone,

I will be in Dubai on 18th and 19th February. Is anyone interested in meeting me to pool knowledge?

I have a meeting with DEC on 18th afternoon, so am hoping to have some real information after that.

David 
UK tel. 0044 1308 538491


----------



## Superman_Saqran

Hi,
Does anyone knows how much to buy a studio flat at Al Saqran tower ?
Is it right the the completion has posponed till 2016?
Please advice

Thanks


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Nakheel's beachfront project on Dubai's Palm Jumeirah sold out*



> By Parag Deulgaonkar | Published Monday, February 11, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 33 studio apartments in the Club Vista Mare, a beachfront residential and recreation project on the Palm Jumeirah, were sold out on the launch day itself with investors paying Dh23,000 per square metre.
> 
> Ali Rashid Lootah, Chairman, Nakheel, told _*Emirates 24|7*_: “We have sold all the 33 units that we had launched today (Sunday) as there is demand for proeprties on the Palm. Besides, these units were quite reasonably priced.”


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-s-palm-jumeirah-sold-out-2013-02-11-1.494522


----------



## Pleth

Parisian Girl said:


> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-s-palm-jumeirah-sold-out-2013-02-11-1.494522


However they are not allowed to use the beach before they pay even more. 
And there will be a huge fat fence put up to make sure nobody can see the beach or enter the beach without paying. :bash:


----------



## nirajdisha

I Have Given Offer for AED650, But it Seems No Body wants to sell at THAT PRICE. People are Expecting AED 850 to AED 900. But AED 650 for UNDERCONSTRUCTION is PERFECT BCoz Ready Units are AVAILABLE AT AED 900 TO AED 1000


----------



## auzdafluff

Guys. Seriously. If you don't think people are seeing through your attempt at bullshitting people, you're wrong – especially with a name like Superman_Saqran.

And you nirajdisha have already been called out on it.

Pack in bullshitting or you'll be reported to the moderators.


----------



## Superman_Saqran

*reply*

I understand where you are coming from (auzdafluff) but I'm serious about it. I guess my username reflected my interest in the tower.

nirajdisha\ I don't believe you as this is away far from what I have got on the table.


----------



## yshimy

Any idea what is the refund process?


----------



## True Blue

It looks like the plot is a landscaped area linked to the Shorelines and another development. In other words, something that was deemed to be communal gardens has been stolen by Nakheel.


----------



## nirajdisha

Sir
If u see in last 7 to 8 Months Property Market is constanly and slowly moving upwards, WHICH I AM SURE EVERYBODY AGREES, It has risen from 20 % to even 35 % Depending on the Location. 
Underconstruction Properties are very FEW in the PRIME AREA LIKE- MARINA, DOWN TOWN , JLT, ETC.....
Now as u can see the Construction which was stopped COMPLETELY HAS started but with very snail pace, which is very postive sign, There are lot people who have invested in these projects at very high rate during the PEAK and now they are COMPLETELY FRUSTATED AND HAVE LOST PATIENCE ( Which they are right) even we would have been same..
Now the developers have started getting inquiries which was not the case few months back, They have started giving good rates and have started closing the DEALS, So if u see now nobody wants to sell at the bottom price or close to bottom because they do not want to book loss or if the property market goes up they will be the loser, i am being cautiously Optimistic, I AM QUOTING ALL THIS MATTER IN A VERY GENERAL SCENARIO NOT SPECIFIC DEVELOPER...


----------



## building1

AED 1,000 psf is a good price. That is the same as JLT. I see it at least 30% or 40% higher once completed..


----------



## SmallM

Unfortunately they have started asking for service fees.

SIXTEEN THOUSAND DIRHAM for 8 months for a 3 BR unit, and this is without master community fee, that will follow later, probably once pool is ready.

Has anyone heard of title deeds, owners association, OA approval of service fee tec.???


----------



## W40arx

Are there any updates guys?


----------



## may12

We are still waiting for TECOM , no title deeds have been handed over altough project has been ready for a couple of month, they keep coming up with excuses for not completing the full handover and issuing title deeds !:bash:


----------



## Abu Ahmad

may12 said:


> We are still waiting for TECOM , no title deeds have been handed over altough project has been ready for a couple of month, they keep coming up with excuses for not completing the full handover and issuing title deeds !:bash:


Apologies for my ignorance may12 but do Abyaar also have a project in TECOM? What is it called?


----------



## Pleth

RTA launches Phase III of Salik, two toll gates added at Al Mamzar, Airport Tunnel. New Gates to start operation on 15 April, 2013.
This will probably help the congestion in Airport Tunnel. Or even the traffic coming from people living in Sharjah and working in Dubai.


----------



## rags

With all these new developments coming up all over including Marina, where are the occupants going to come from? Also, with any possible downturn again, won't this all turn into a ghost town? Just asking as it is not clear where the jobs are other than in tourism and logistics! I also find Dubai dearer than much of London these days.


----------



## may12

no it's the same project, it is under TECOM "regulations"


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Oh okay. Have you seen your villa and inspected it? Are you happy with the quality?

If you're based in Dubai and happen to visit the area would love to see some pictures of the area and maybe the Hilliana Tower if possible.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## TerryPop

Rags,

I am not arguing with you on the above- but I can tell you that all the owners I know of commercial office space in JLT have 100% occupancy.

All of them are busy with employees, and none of them are involved in tourism or logistics.

Here are a few I know of
Commodities traders, internet sales, embassy rep office, drilling of some sort, building supplies to Saudi etc, FA type outfit etc


----------



## True Blue

TerryPop said:


> Rags,
> 
> I am not arguing with you on the above- but I can tell you that all the owners I know of commercial office space in JLT have 100% occupancy.
> 
> All of them are busy with employees, and none of them are involved in tourism or logistics.
> 
> Here are a few I know of
> Commodities traders, internet sales, embassy rep office, drilling of some sort, building supplies to Saudi etc, FA type outfit etc


One of my new tenants is an executive of a tyre company that relocated it's Middle East HO from Cairo to Dubai. Egypt has become very unstable and I would guess that this is not the only business that has made such a move.


----------



## sgn7200

Hello everyone
Have not heard from anyone as to what is happening with regard to building works at L5 and L4. Has anyone got any information whether the things are at a standstil or have DEC resumed from where they left before. They seem to suffer from exhaustion. Every now and then after doing a little work they go to sleep. Perhaps David can be good enough to find out during his meeting with DEC as to what they are upto. My humble suggestion will be please accept everything with a pinch of salt. Question them on everything they tell you and then decide for yourself as to what the truth is. Please keep giving the feedback so that everyone is aware of the situations developing at DEC.


----------



## beer51

Abu Ahmad

Do you know the prices for a studio and what are the terms. thnx
beer


----------



## abf

*Progress*



anacreon said:


> My understanding is that FPSC are essentially 'swap' brokers. In other words they try to give you some credit for the money you have sunk into a stalled project by asking you to surrender your rights in that one and instead giving you a discount (off often somewhat inflated prices!) on other projects that they happen to be selling at the time.


Seems like a correct assessment


----------



## may12

I have received my keys but , the finish isn't great since the villas have been sitting empty for a couple of years....there is only so much they can snag .......


----------



## Kshaikh

I am non resident and recently booked a 2BR apartment in Hilliana. Can someone suggest what type of document to be secured from the Flash Properties and Abbayar.

I booked the apartment on 28th Jan and still waiting for the receipt and papers from Flash Properties. I made the payment on Escrow account.


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> One of my new tenants is an executive of a tyre company that relocated it's Middle East HO from Cairo to Dubai. Egypt has become very unstable and I would guess that this is not the only business that has made such a move.


And lots of European and South African companies are coming to UAE, just as Europe is dying in taxes.


----------



## noir-dresses

Just read this article regarding London.

http://www.thestar.com/business/real_estate/2013/02/13/london_property_no_longer_looks_so_safe.html




TerryPop said:


> The average price for a super prime home is £6,000 per sq ft - well ahead of Hong Kong (£5,500), Sydney (£4,380), New York (£5,300) and Paris (£2,900).]
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ularity-shows-signs-waning.html#ixzz2LNEZVBW5
> 
> 
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


----------



## 11wingnut

HELLO FROM DUBLIN.
I am looking for some information please. What has happened is my wife and i own a villa in palmera 2 .but as she has found an older model i am of no longer required. but she has rented our jointly owned villa without my permission or giving me any rent ..now what i need to know is how can i find out what real estate has rented it and how can i get my hands on the lease . also when the villa was purchased we did not get any deeds how do i get this . Thank you


----------



## londonboy 1

So Dubai prices are still too low (average 1300 AED/ sq ft) in comparison to the rest of the world.


----------



## DennyCrane

Dubai_Steve said:


> That was from a Dubai estate agents website.
> 
> Select Property UK are currently advertising this as Q1 2014, so by April 2014.


So they start to sell with a completion date widely advertised as opening 2013 and then bang in true Select style the opening little by little starts to get pushed back.....Same old Select, buyers beware!!!!!hno:


----------



## UAE Investor

londonboy 1 said:


> So Dubai prices are still too low (average 1300 AED/ sq ft) in comparison to the rest of the world.


In comparison to the worlds top city,s


----------



## londonboy 1

Thats what I meant ,here in central london the average price per sqft is £1500(approximatly 9000 AED) comparing to only 1300 AED in Dubai, so may be in few years time we will see price in duabi rocketing to 5000 AED/ sqft..


----------



## Garby

Please get your facts correct. Realpoint were appointed by RERA from 2008 to 2011. Their reports were confidential and only for RERA and it is RERA that then posted their reports on their RERA Website. The reasons for the name change from Screampoint to Realpoint were due to the fact that the business was no longer using Screampoint (this is an existing US firm's technology - see www.screampoint.com).


----------



## UAE Investor

Garby said:


> Please get your facts correct. Realpoint were appointed by RERA from 2008 to 2011. Their reports were confidential and only for RERA and it is RERA that then posted their reports on their RERA Website. The reasons for the name change from Screampoint to Realpoint were due to the fact that the business was no longer using Screampoint (this is an existing US firm's technology - see www.screampoint.com).


err... who where you addressing?


----------



## TerryPop

*yield*



londonboy 1 said:


> Thats what I meant ,here in central london the average price per sqft is £1500(approximatly 9000 AED) comparing to only 1300 AED in Dubai, so may be in few years time we will see price in duabi rocketing to 5000 AED/ sqft..


I think the price psf is purely yield driven. So if rents go up, then prices follow. Maybe thats a little obvious. 


6% tax free is like a 9% return in most of these 'top' cities.


If Dubai quadrupled in price is would still be pretty cheap in comparison to the cities mentioned anyway. Its not like it would start to compete with them. 


My point is there is plenty of room for alot of growth in Dubai- without it looking out of whack.


----------



## Bradpole

Spoke to DEC on Monday, then visited Lawns 4 and Lawns 2.

Lawns 2 - still a hole in the ground and frozen project (contrary to my earlier report of two stories - that is the next door building)
Lawns 4 - about 4 men on site on Monday, and crane working - they were removing scaffolding. All seen by me. My spies tell me that there was no-one there on Tuesday, but that the night watchman says that work is to start on Sunday.

My conversations with DEC indicate that there will be some people working by the end of February, but that the full crew will not start until some time in March - they also say that they expect to be handing over in September 2013.
DEC explanations given were believable. If no work in hand by end March, I will be returning with elephant gun!

I seriously believe that there is real hope that they are about to start the next stage of works - we will habve to see if the September hand-over prediction works out, but I cannot believe that RERA will allow a half-built project to make JVS look even untidier that it is at present.

May I suggest that any serious investors email me direct - [email protected].

Fingers crossed everyone.
David


----------



## agod

Has any body receieved the latest Completion Date? they are saying september this year.


----------



## True Blue

^^Part of the reason London and other major cities have expensive properties is due to rich Arabs wanting to move their money out of the Middle East and paying silly prices for the desirable post codes. The same was happening with rich Russians when communism collapsed, they wanted to spread their money and lessen the risk of losing it if their country or region becomes unstable in the future. So they sought out addresses in the right post codes.

Unfortunately Dubai does not have post codes. :lol:


----------



## Garby

UAE Investor said:


> err... who where you addressing?


My mistake! was responding to another thread and got lost - a newbie :lol:


----------



## Freestyler

I need to find good real estate agents with cars. I've started real estate company.


----------



## Garby

UAE Investor said:


> In comparison to the worlds top city,s


The quality of Dubai's real estate is also different to others in the other major cities. In most cases its much lower and will have much shorter lifespan. A factor that will impact values significantly over the mid-long term.


----------



## TerryPop

Garby said:


> The quality of Dubai's real estate is also different to others in the other major cities. In most cases its much lower and will have much shorter lifespan. A factor that will impact values significantly over the mid-long term.


I am sorry but that is absolute BS.

I hear this argument countless times. It is so stunningly naive.

The main value in any RE is location..

Have you seen the quality of new build in London? it is not great.


There are many buildings still standing in Dubai after years-so long as they are maintained well you'll be ok. 

If your location is right that is where most of the value is.


----------



## Garby

TerryPop said:


> I am sorry but that is absolute BS.
> 
> I hear this argument countless times. It is so stunningly naive.
> 
> The main value in any RE is location..
> 
> Have you seen the quality of new build in London? it is not great.
> 
> 
> There are many buildings still standing in Dubai after years-so long as they are maintained well you'll be ok.
> 
> If your location is right that is where most of the value is.


I agree that location is a major factor of quality. However another major factor is the build quality. You still need to look at the long term performance when assessing value and this differs considerably between countries. 

I have seen many London buildings and many in Dubai. On the whole property in the UK is far far better built with proper construction detailing suitable for the climate, building codes have been developed over many years and are enforced and there are more professional and well trained contractors and developers in the market. In Dubai the climate is especially harsh to reinforced structures, the building codes that exist are not followed or properly enforced and the quality of construction labour and management is very poor.

Added to this the level of property maintenance in Dubai is also generally very poor and well below international standards.


----------



## TerryPop

Garby said:


> I agree that location is a major factor of quality. However another major factor is the build quality. You still need to look at the long term performance when assessing value and this differs considerably between countries.
> 
> I have seen many London buildings and many in Dubai. On the whole property in the UK is far far better built with proper construction detailing suitable for the climate, building codes have been developed over many years and are enforced and there are more professional and well trained contractors and developers in the market. In Dubai the climate is especially harsh to reinforced structures, the building codes that exist are not followed or properly enforced and the quality of construction labour and management is very poor.
> 
> Added to this the level of property maintenance in Dubai is also generally very poor and well below international standards.


In your opinion! hello... I haven't experienced anything worse then the new builds i have seen in the US or London.

There may be many arguments of why Dubai won't got to say 4-5000 psf but going back to your original arg I dont think (in my opinion) build quality is one of them.

Individual values of individual towers may be kept low by inproper maintenance.


----------



## True Blue

Build quality is not a major factor, geopolitical stability will be a bigger consideration. That has always held Dubai back IMO.


----------



## speculator

Garby said:


> I agree that location is a major factor of quality. However another major factor is the build quality. You still need to look at the long term performance when assessing value and this differs considerably between countries.
> 
> I have seen many London buildings and many in Dubai. On the whole property in the UK is far far better built with proper construction detailing suitable for the climate, building codes have been developed over many years and are enforced and there are more professional and well trained contractors and developers in the market. In Dubai the climate is especially harsh to reinforced structures, the building codes that exist are not followed or properly enforced and the quality of construction labour and management is very poor.
> 
> Added to this the level of property maintenance in Dubai is also generally very poor and well below international standards.


UK property is very poor & decaying. The new builds are trash. I think Dubai now has better standards. But putting all that aside we have a buy to let boom going on in the UK at the moment and ive been busy filling my boots.


----------



## Parisian Girl

*Nakheel tenders for new Palm projects*



> on Feb 20, 2013
> 
> Developer Nakheel has issued tenders for its three recently-announced shopping and leisure schemes on Palm Jumeirah.


http://www.constructionweekonline.c...l-tenders-for-new-palm-projects/#.USVAUKVBJik


----------



## PrincessTower

Garby said:


> I agree that location is a major factor of quality. However another major factor is the build quality.....


well, if that was true than a lot of the new built RE in eastern germany had to be way more expensive than london. but it ain't.

one of the reasons london is so popular is that it is in Europe, and it is English speaking. most arabs speak english pretty well. why do you think so few are moving to Copenhagen or Vienna? nothing to do with quality of buildings IMHO.


----------



## J39

Given Select's track record, the square footage stated in the contract not only includes the parking space, but also a chunk of S. Z. R.
Potential buyers should check Select's other sites. Lots of unhappy owners at the Point, Bay Central and Pacific amongst others.


----------



## True Blue

J39 said:


> Given Select's track record, the square footage stated in the contract not only includes the parking space, *but also a chunk of S. Z. R.*
> .......................................


:lol::hilarious::rofl:


----------



## jediknight29

Hi,

Anyone want to sell contact me. I'm not a buyer yet but might be once a new contractor is announced.

I have been in a similar situation, but won a case against a developer who missed his deadline. In the longterm always better to go to court. Just a bit of advice.

Thanks,
JD


----------



## uzman

*any progress*

jvinvestor.....did you had any progess in your meeti ng with rera officals?


----------



## mansoor.sheikh

*Selling units in Al Saqran Towers*

Hello,

We have 2 units each 480sqft. in Al Saqran Tower, at 13th floor. We are interested to sale our residantial appartments. If you are interested please contact with us.

Best regards
Mansoor Sheikh

Contact: [email protected]
92-333-2103162


----------



## Jim Hensler

Having worked in the European construction industry my humble opinion is that general build quality in Dubai is of a higher standard than most UK structures, both residential and commercial. (Albeit with some exceptions.)
Also the desert climate is kinder to most facings as opposed to the fairly harsh north European weather.
House prices are not subject to that much change, land prices are.
Having said that and considering all the factors, Dubai house prices from a buying point of view do seem to be very good value, especially in mid prime locations


----------



## unknownpleasures

UK has historical buildings which have lasted for centuries so has Europe!


----------



## True Blue

unknownpleasures said:


> UK has historical buildings which have lasted for centuries so has Europe!


That was back in "ye olde" days when walls were made of stone 4 foot thick. Now the structural element is a timber frame held together with wood shavings bonded with pva glue (OSB boards). 

It's very difficult to find builders in the UK who still build homes using traditional methods.


----------



## TerryPop

So where could values go over the next few years? 
Dubai still seems cheap by 3 or 4 times (to me based on zero factual evidence)...


IMO it is rents that are determining nearly all of a properties value in Dubai

so:

We need population growth
We need rents to keep going up- (because this triggers secondary locations like Sports City to spring to life) 
We need ongoing construction-management brings jobs, their kids fills schools etc, uses facilities etcc


----------



## True Blue

^^Property prices in general are linked to wage inflation. If people are earning good money and can expect reasonable yearly increases then property values will increase as people strive for better addresses to match their aspirations.

We also saw the effect on property prices caused by Banks eagerness to lend at high multiples of salary.


----------



## unknownpleasures

True Blue said:


> That was back in "ye olde" days when walls were made of stone 4 foot thick. Now the structural element is a timber frame held together with wood shavings bonded with pva glue (OSB boards).
> 
> It's very difficult to find builders in the UK who still build homes using traditional methods.


Yeah agree about the rocks and stuff but it can't all be rubbish, nothing wrong with wood, (just that nothing is forever these days as it's meant to be pulled down after some 20 years or so (houses/villas),,,everything is throw away even furniture.........haven't you seen the 60 minute makeovers in the UK, I'm fascinated, always watch them for ideas...in an hour they can redo 4 rooms with around 30 people...can you imagine if 30 people actually were there daily in Dubai working on those towers that were promised (and paid for) to be built?????

How can towers that are no more than 15 stories take 7 years to build in Dubai!!!!

As for towers in the UK and in Europe surely they are not made from wood and glue!

Out of interest what are the villas and houses built from in Dubai??. :cheers:


----------



## unknownpleasures

The job to stimulate the economy is the up to the govt but they are not doing a thing to stimulate it in Sports City rather what has happened it is okay to start new mega projects elsewhere and forget about the millions which were paid by well meaning investors who supported Sport City believing like it was to be the iconic place for sport as it was marketed as such - the govt cannot ignore this and must do something to instigate growth! There lies the real problem!


----------



## Docmo1

Does anyone know how the progress in this tower is now? Contemplating buying a unit here. They apparently are selling units with a 5 year payment plan. Reading through this thread I'm not sure its a wise thing to do?


----------



## dime01

No < i dont have any concrete info , it was just told by another investor who happend to visit LD to meet some friend who works there.. but no official word but his friend advise to wait for some time as they will announce thru newspaper... as i said no concrete info


----------



## True Blue

^^Off plan in general is bad news. You are putting your money at risk by signing an agreement that commits you to making payments while the developer can muck around with design, specifications and delivery dates. The property laws are biased towards the developers and despite numerous promises and press releases, THERE ARE NO LAWS WHICH PROTECT THE BUYERS INTERESTS.

Do a cash flow analysis and see the benefits of buying something ready now and able to earn rental income from the word go.


----------



## TerryPop

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-s-nakheel-launches-new-palm-project-490823.html

*The beach-front development will feature 140 one-bedroom apartments priced at AED2.3m (US$626,000) and 30 two-bedroom units priced at AED4.2m.*

Its pretty insightful i think, b/c it shows (sort of) price targets that Nakheel is gunning for on asset books.

I thinks its a very good tactic debt:equity ratios will look better.





As a comparison:

In 2008, as we were peaking in Dubai, 2 bedroom apartments direct from Nakheel were as much as 6,000,000+ aed in Marina residences on the Palm.


----------



## Freestyler

unknownpleasures said:


> The job to stimulate the economy is the up to the govt but they are not doing a thing to stimulate it in Sports City rather what has happened it is okay to start new mega projects elsewhere and forget about the millions which were paid by well meaning investors who supported Sport City believing like it was to be the iconic place for sport as it was marketed as such - the govt cannot ignore this and must do something to instigate growth! There lies the real problem!


The projects that have been cancelled you can get the money back according to RERA.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Freestyler said:


> The projects that have been cancelled you can get the money back according to RERA.


Where did you hear that? Nothing said about it nor is it listed on RERA...in fact they didn't advertise anything that was cancelled considering they did claim they were going to ...marwin pulled out in the end! hno:hno:


----------



## unknownpleasures

Out of interest what are the villas and houses built from in Dubai??


----------



## mashraf42

Have had an email asking for payment for the 18th floor so there does seem to be some progress.


----------



## 234sale

Love.. ^^


----------



## UAE Investor

234sale said:


> Love.. ^^


Giant lego bricks i heard..!

:lol:


----------



## UAE Investor

A continued lack of newly constructed space coming to the market, combined with a sustained demand for offices in prime central locations, is set to result in upward pressure on prime rents in the city in 2013, which currently stand at €310 per sqm (£271sqm), according to the latest Dublin office market report from Savills,

http://www.propertyoverseastoday.co...essure-on-prime-rents-in-dublin-office-market


----------



## Gorbatiy

spent 3 days with RERA, lawyer and runnung around court. Finally, got lady who is in charge for cancelled projects. Sunset Garden B is under #906. She gpt originals from me and return copies with stamp and date to me for filing. Day after tomorrow I am leaving Dubai and will cal to her each month. That's status for today


----------



## Freestyler

234sale said:


> Love.. ^^


:lol:


----------



## Freestyler

unknownpleasures said:


> Where did you hear that? Nothing said about it nor is it listed on RERA...in fact they didn't advertise anything that was cancelled considering they did claim they were going to ...marwin pulled out in the end! hno:hno:


They are not advertising the projects, but if project has been removed from RERA list then chances are it is cancelled. Then go to RERA guy in the land dept. and if project is cancelled they will tell you and you can go for refund. But getting refund is another issue if developer is delaying the refund. Then go to court and get it done through court.


----------



## yabani

worried4 said:


> Thank you building 1. But at least it some progress.
> 
> Looks like everyone who has taken delivery is happy, since nothing seems to be happening on this thread.
> 
> Would be nice to know people's experience with IFA, interaction with Movenpick Managers.
> 
> In general. how is the building doing, surrounding areas. Some photographs of the inside maybe? Any new shops comming up? Can you walk to metro? How is the traffic?:cheers:


Hi Building1,

I am ,generally-speaking, very pleased with the unit. The facility management office has been very helpful in facilitating move-ins and needed maintenance and carrying out additional works for investors.

Surrounding Areas is nice, and the Metro is only a 5-minute-walk away from the Tower. Now you can walk it But I would not bet on July/August.

Traffic is also cool as there is this Bridge that takes you from SZR directly into JLT, and back from JLT either onto SZR or, into the Marina.


----------



## tempbond

Can you give us the lady's name and contact number ? I am going to dubai soon and would like to contact her too.
Thank you.


----------



## londonboy 1

Can someone advice on how to download a standard property sales agreement if there is one?


----------



## Gorbatiy

*contact*



tempbond said:


> Can you give us the lady's name and contact number ? I am going to dubai soon and would like to contact her too.
> Thank you.


Send PM to me


----------



## chefdude

londonboy 1 said:


> Can someone advice on how to download a standard property sales agreement if there is one?


You are best going through a registered real estate agent especially if you are not in Dubai otherwise your Sale and Title Deed transfer will not be permitted by the Land Dept.

First step is to get an MOU signed by both parties in the sale.


----------



## unknownpleasures

I would have thought Love for money...although it should provide you with a return of bricks and mortar at least!!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Freestyler said:


> They are not advertising the projects, but if project has been removed from RERA list then chances are it is cancelled. Then go to RERA guy in the land dept. and if project is cancelled they will tell you and you can go for refund. But getting refund is another issue if developer is delaying the refund. Then go to court and get it done through court.


Wow! Back to the courts...that's the remedy for refund? :lol:


----------



## Freestyler

unknownpleasures said:


> Wow! Back to the courts...that's the remedy for refund? :lol:


It works


----------



## LongLiveDubai

RK_74 said:


> Hi all, I took an ill-advised gamble and purchased 2 units off plans in west wharf, business bay. Does anyone know of other who purchased units in this development who would be willing to approach Developer directly (as a collective group of investors) in relation to a discount at completion, is anyone familiar with this Developer and the best way to deal/negotiate with them? When you mention 30% discount, to what does the discount apply -- 30% off the purchase price?
> 
> Personally given almost 3 year delay (contract delivery date: March 2010) I would like to cancel the contract on at least one of these -- not sure this is an option as (i) unlikely developer will agree (ii) the legal system seems stacked in favour of the developer and (iii) going down the legal route would be expensive and probability of success is slim.
> 
> Any input or advice on this matter or on any of the questions above would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!



May I know what was the booking price of your units and what percentage have you paid so far? Has the developer approached you regarding hand over or offered any compensation for the delay?


----------



## unknownpleasures

Freestyler said:


> It works


:cheers: you must have been very lucky, never heard of one other success yet! what I have heard if a court makes a decision it then needs to be enforced...by whom?


----------



## Ahmed N

W40arx said:


> better than nothing I suppose!


Hello/ Salaams - Mr Robin Lohmann is on "LinkedIn" 
i have sent him a polite message for an update and asking him if the projects from ACI are going to be fullfilled - NO REPLY from him!


----------



## Freestyler

unknownpleasures said:


> :cheers: you must have been very lucky, never heard of one other success yet! what I have heard if a court makes a decision it then needs to be enforced...by whom?


There are lot of success cases. If court gives a decision then lawyer will chase the money, they get a % from it too.


----------



## uzman

yeah i also need her no plz......


----------



## Naoual

Hi,

I want to rent a type A town house direct from owner. Can you please let me know if you own one, not road view, and you want to rent it?

Thanks


----------



## dalmation

Thanks, No offense taken. If you find a better deal go ahead, so would I.
All I am saying you may want to open your eyes and see the development for what it really is.

Then go back in this forum and check all the broken promises and false hope.
Then compare your offering with other developments that are ready and mature.

...or you may want to choose to continue dreaming, fine with me. I already moved ahead with other, far superior, investment opportunities.






france98 said:


> Distressed sales have gone thru recently at Dhs 1,198 per sq/ft (note distressed). As they say in Dragon's Den, thank you for offer Dalmation, but "I'm out"! There has been substantial progress btw, and the expectations are for Q3 handover. Altho we all have heard overly-optimistic completion dates before. Separately, HSBC are still charging 6.5% interest on my mortgage. Has anyone managed to get their rate down? I asked but have to fill in a 'hardship' form, go thru a quite rigorous assessment of my financial position, and describe my change in financial circumstance. I'm just fed up having paid 6.5% interest since 2007 to be honest. Any comments or guidance appreciated.


----------



## Freestyler

Any any event going to court is better since court puts a penalty otherwise they will keep the money without incurring any penalty on the delay. I know somebody who won a case against Emaar, they have settled to get their money back in installments.


----------



## UAE Investor

Freestyler said:


> Any any event going to court is better since court puts a penalty otherwise they will keep the money without incurring any penalty on the delay. I know somebody who won a case against Emaar, they have settled to get their money back in installments.


Emaar only ?


----------



## Parisian Girl

*End of sharing apartments in Dubai? Landlords warn tenants of penalties*



> By Parag Deulgaonkar | Published Wednesday, March 06, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice by a landlord (SUPPLIED)
> 
> Landlords in Dubai were allowing tenants to share apartments until last year, with some putting adverts with the tag line “sharing allowed” just to increase occupancy in their buildings. But all that is changing.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...warn-tenants-of-penalties-2013-03-06-1.497482


----------



## True Blue

Docmo1 said:


> Thank you True Blue and anacreon for your replies.
> 
> True Blue: you are absolutely right but i have a relatively low budget and being a non-resident a bank loan is not an option. There aren't that many developers offering projects on payment plans and certainly not in the more attractive areas like the Dubai Marina. As anacreon mentioned the payment plan in this project is quite attractive but on the other hand the prices are higher than the current market prices for that area.
> 
> I'm very interested to know what you think about the projects progress. To me it seems extremely slow. I hope im not making a mistake in buying in this project?


Progress is extremely slow and could come to a standstill again. I would hold off an monitor the spend on the project. The current level of work could be a scam to make it look like something is happening when in reality it is nothing at all.

The same thing happened at Wind Towers where they messed around with block walls for months and months before going bust!


----------



## jasper1000

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Middle-East/United-Arab-Emirates

Lets hope within the next 12 months we can move in. According to the link above prices are rising fast. Dated 15th January 2013

Does anyone know how much the service charge will be and if its worked out ob the net or gross size of the apartment. My Apartment is 357 Square foot net but if i include the service area and balcony it's 530 Square foot


----------



## AppleMac

*Housing Fee*

We have a friend who uses their property simply as a holiday home and has always been peeved that she has to pay the full Housing Fee as part of her DEWA bill. As far as I know there is no discount for holiday homes, but this friend was talking to another resident in their block who said that he gets a discount because of only using the apartment as a holiday home. Well today our friend ended up in the Municipality Offices on SZR and spoke to one of the managers who knocked 70 Dhs off this months bill and assured her that she would be getting a discount in future. So do all holiday homes get a discount or was this just a Dubai one-off?


----------



## sherifezzat

I am new to this thread, so pls mind my ignorance. I'm thinking about buying a one or two bedroom apartment in Dubai, burj area. I received a call from Damac with some offers on burj Damac 4. I heard lots of negative reports about this company. I am from overseas so I have no exposure to damac's Dubai activities. Can I get some feedback on Damac and its burj4 tower. Thnx


----------



## may12

building1 said:


> Are the villas handed over yet ?


we paid 100%, but still waiting for the title deeds, and that's since December 2012......they were even asking for the service charge


----------



## Superman_Saqran

Paid for the 18th floor


----------



## Docmo1

AAD_DXB: Thank you for the great pictures! Have you been inside? What do u think about the unit sizes and plans?

True Blue: thanx for your advice.. it would be a shame to stop work on this project when so much has already been done.. but one never knows in Dubai.


----------



## shah100

*Regal Row Town Houses*

HI ANYBODY HAS NEWS ABOUT THE ROYAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT. I ALSO HEARD THEY HAVE STARTED PROJECT AGAIN.

REGARDS,

SHAH


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai achieves 10 million visitors for the first time*

Visitor numbers to Dubai increased by 9.3% in 2012, with the city welcoming more than 10 million visitors over a one year period for the first time in its history.

The results were announced by Dubai's Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DTCM). 

http://www.ameinfo.com/dubai-achieves-10-million-visitors-time-332562


----------



## AAB_DXB

Docmo1 said:


> AAD_DXB: Thank you for the great pictures! Have you been inside? What do u think about the unit sizes and plans?


I havent been inside yet, but I'm quiet confident about this project. 
I visit the contractors every 2 weeks and they work continuously (according to engineers).


----------



## Faisalalmatar

I have one bed flat there.
If you want to by it just contact me.


----------



## haseeb_eng

I went and friday and found that it's true. the 18th floor has been started and i had given them my payments.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Mistermark said:


> A year or so back, I offered to fund, without limit, a valid compensation claim against a developer brought by a purchaser, if they undertook to use a solicitor who could prove that they had not only won cases, but actually collected compensation money, for ex-pat investors, and could prove it (including putting me in touch with the investors).
> 
> You'd think I would have been inundated with requests. In fact I received none.
> 
> There are many solicitors in Dubai who will tell you they can get your money back. There aren't many that can prove they've actually done so.


^^^^Well said! :cheers:


----------



## Krazy

Developer now promising April handover.. any site updates to get a reality check?


----------



## micky4u

Hey do any one have any idea for the handover of the apartment in Summer Cluster.


----------



## GossipGirlDubai

celticmonkey said:


> Has anyone had a court decission on this project ? It was launched in 2005 so one would expect a judgement by now surely ?


Do not overestimate this legal system

There is plenty of judgments against developers, but apparently the lawyers of those people with judgments in hands were too desperate to make some money and did not bother explaining to their clients that winning in a litigation case arising from significant delay in construction of a real estate project in Dubai and non delivery is no big deal, but there are the following questions to be asked prior to getting involved into lengthy and costly litigation in order to evaluate the chances of executing that judgment:

1. Is that project's land owned by the developer you are dealing with? 
2. How is the developer established in UAE? Is the developer a cheap offshore company? 
3. Are there any available assets to be auctioned?
4. Is the opponent's lawyer a well known shark of real estate disputes in UAE that kept the developer up and running for all these years regardless of all the delay?


----------



## GossipGirlDubai

ninaschon said:


> Please help me to know know you got your refund we are stuck fighting as well for 2 apartments to this day with no luck. my username is ninaschon but am of no relation and I want my $$$ back. Please help me.
> Thanks and regards.


 It is highly unlikely that anybody will ever get any refund here, IMO.


----------



## building1

Krazy said:


> Developer now promising April handover.. any site updates to get a reality check?


April handover means it is basically ready. That is great news. Whoever is in the area, please make some pictures and post them here.


----------



## GossipGirlDubai

mohammadakbar said:


> I think MiNC have run out of funds to spend on the project. It was stopped due to a road being built in front of it that blocked the entrance to the building. Until this was sorted with the Dubai road development, the contractor "Sheffield" pulled out of building the project and demanded more money from Waterfront development. (a parent company of Minc) that’s where every thing stopped. Minc should return funds back to investors with interest. They are refusing to do this. Should it be a mass action against minc. I think due to Dubai ;land laws. Every investor has to file case for every unit separately? How many members do you have in your groupe? I know of another groupe of investors quite a lot of them but having deficulty agreeing with which course of action should be taken against MiNC. i THINK ALL THESE GROUPS SHOULD GET TOGATHER AT ONE PLACE AND DECIDE A COMMON WAY FORWARD.


Few points to consider about this project:

1. Initially, the units were sold by the real developer (Sheffield) to the 
BVI offshore called "Waterfront" (Waterfront is just a bulk buyer and not a developer)

2. Waterfront re-sold the units to others (for which they had the full right i believe), got its premiums (which is also legitimate, i.e. something the majority of Dubai real estate investors are/were doing), received the money from the investors/issued their own contracts (this part is important) 

3. The individual secondary buyers who bought from Waterfront paid to Waterfront and MINC. Sheffield never received the full amounts paid by the individual investors (or at least what was necessary to continue the construction), and in most - if not all - cases there are no direct contracts between the developer and the individual investors 


4. Miraculously, MINC/Waterfront were able to pre-register the units in Oqood register in the name of the individual buyers without the real developer's approval or payment of necessary fees (!). 

5. Apparently, MINC/Waterfront have defaulted on the payments to the developer and after the developer took action, they ran off from Dubai and are enjoying their lives somewhere. At the investors' cost  

6. Obviously, the real developers are not "the bad guys" here (they also have made a mistake by selling to Waterfront), however, they are not obliged to recognize the contracts to which they are not a party/acknowledge the full amounts paid by the investors to MINC/Waterfront, since the developer has never received those full amounts. In fact, logic suggests that the developer might have the full right to challenge the registration of units in Oqood which happened without their approval. 

7. Obviously, the developer cannot continue the construction as there is shortage of funds, but this project is a black spot on their overall good reputation, and they would want to "wash off" this dark spot.

8. Since MINC/Waterfront are not willing to pay to the developer, there is only one way to finish the construction and save the project (i.e. funds injection). On the other hand, no individual buyer who already made payments is likely to make any additional payments until they see some progress in construction, which is impossible without funding. So where are the funds going to come from, if developer is also not able/willing to inject their own money? Hypothetically, there might be a slight chance that the developer would find it feasible and try and sort out the financial issues of this project via a smart JV with a new investor who would inject funds into the project against all future receivables (like what happened with several other troubled projects in the market, i even hear that some of the newly cancelled/soon-to-be-cancelled projects might be undergoing revival soon though similar solutions... if approved by land department). For the potential new investor in such cases, the key point of interest would lay in a significant number of unsold units/units with cancelled SPAs (and the future receivables of that stock). After all, the project is in Dubai Marina and I am sure, if there was enough unsold stock there would be an investor by now and the project would be completed.

9. As far as i understand, most (if not all) units in this particular project were sold long ago and there is not much of future receivables at the moment (since there is not much of a stock available)

Do your math to figure out what could be on the developer's mind right now, considering the fact that apparently there is a huge difference between what investors have paid to Waterfront/MINC and what the developer has actually received. There is no reason for the developer to take responsibility for that difference.


I have been interested in this project's situation for quite some time and IMO, there is a chance to sort out this endless mess, but not by way of costly and lengthy real estate litigation. Even if the Court's judgments would be in the investors' favor, it is not highly likely that you will be able to execute these judgments against MINC/Waterfront as they are out of the country and most likely there are no assets to auction in this country (and Sheffield - supposed owner of the land on which the project is situated - has no contractual relationship with the individual investors).


----------



## BonZzz

Hi, I would like to purchase a park-facing townhouse in Al Furjan. If you have such unit for sale, please contact me. Thanks.


----------



## GossipGirlDubai

April is in two weeks from now ))) A hint: one of their projects which is the closest to completion is "to be delivered in Q3 or Q4 this year" according to very reliable sources in Land Dept. I hear though that they are definitely going to deliver DL one building at a time in the near future.


----------



## SagarDubai

Guys I visited the site yesterday. Brick work is going on full swing on the ground floor of Lawns 4. I have a gut feeling that if everything goes well, we might get the apartment in Oct-Dec 2013 time frame. DEC is consolidating people from other Lawns site to this site to keep the money flowing in. In case if you had booked in other Lawns site, pls get it swapped to Lawns 4. There are still units available. Moreoever Dubai has started to boom. Prices and rents are rising. Dont fall back on projects that have stopped. Move to Lawns 4. Its better to get an apartment than waiting forever. 

Its too premature to guess how much the service charge is going to be. Nevertheless, its always on Gross Area and not Net / Carpet Area.


----------



## agod

I have now been living in Dubai for four years, and can honestly say that the Penny has finally dropped, on what Dubai is all about...
Dubai is only interested in gaining more Tourism, of which it is achieving in spades, no doubt there, the Marina, is packed every night of the week, and full of camera clicking foreigners, blocking up the place.
My view is this, that S.Mo, only wants to see his vision realized, then you will understand why, that everyone, including Government Depts., that they are totally on the Developers side, and never the Investors, when I have spoken to them, you are always given the brush off, and their total disinterest, in anything that you the Investor, might have as proof of the developers miss doings, the arrogance, Attitude, and bare faced cheek of them all, the emptying of the Escrow Accounts, and the “Projects Cancelled List” never saw the light of day, for example, even when confronted with proof of their Thieving, The Government showed a total lack of caring “so What” was the attitude, The stock answer was “take them to Court” and even if you do and win, ( and If that was the case every Lawyer in town would shouting from the rooftops about their many successes) you will never get your Money Back.
I can honestly say that of the few I have heard of that have won, Mister Mark being one, of which he exerted a huge amount of pressure on the Company from his position as Journalist, and the Emaar case in DIFC under British Law, even then they didn’t want to pay out, only until it looked like their assets were about to be seized did they write the cheque, all of them are very apt at delaying tactics, these Companies are legendary for their masterful Account depts. and in house lawyers, often Appealing the Decisions, and causing more delays, often declaring bankruptcy, and fighting hard to stop any payment. This is nothing new to Dubai, even in the USA and the UK one example is the PPI miss-selling after about 4 years and losing in court and going to appeal, and massive pressure from the Government did they start to return the money.
if you where Sh.Mo and you wandered around the streets, seeing Cranes and unfinished buildings, this is not what he want to see, that’s embarrassing for him, and an eyesore for the Tourist that are coming here.
Remember the new laws supposed to help Investors, very wishy washy, and never introduced, the 3 year property purchase sponsorship nonsense, still hasn’t been resolved, still nothing, the 60 day tourist visa reduced to 30, and all these Apartments that are filling up, are full of Ex-Pat workers, here to complete his vision, not Old Farts wanting to retire, more Malls, more Hotels, more Tourist attractions, is bringing in the Money, stay a week spend a fortune and say goodbye, this is the vision that needs to be completed.

A.


----------



## Mistermark

agod said:


> I have now been living in Dubai for four years, and can honestly say that the Penny has finally dropped, on what Dubai is all about...
> Dubai is only interested in gaining more Tourism, of which it is achieving in spades, no doubt there, the Marina, is packed every night of the week, and full of camera clicking foreigners, blocking up the place.
> My view is this, that S.Mo, only wants to see his vision realized, then you will understand why, that everyone, including Government Depts., that they are totally on the Developers side, and never the Investors, when I have spoken to them, you are always given the brush off, and their total disinterest, in anything that you the Investor, might have as proof of the developers miss doings, the arrogance, Attitude, and bare faced cheek of them all, the emptying of the Escrow Accounts, and the “Projects Cancelled List” never saw the light of day, for example, even when confronted with proof of their Thieving, The Government showed a total lack of caring “so What” was the attitude, The stock answer was “take them to Court” and even if you do and win, ( and If that was the case every Lawyer in town would shouting from the rooftops about their many successes) you will never get your Money Back.
> I can honestly say that of the few I have heard of that have won, Mister Mark being one, of which he exerted a huge amount of pressure on the Company from his position as Journalist, and the Emaar case in DIFC under British Law, even then they didn’t want to pay out, only until it looked like their assets were about to be seized did they write the cheque, all of them are very apt at delaying tactics, these Companies are legendary for their masterful Account depts. and in house lawyers, often Appealing the Decisions, and causing more delays, often declaring bankruptcy, and fighting hard to stop any payment. This is nothing new to Dubai, even in the USA and the UK one example is the PPI miss-selling after about 4 years and losing in court and going to appeal, and massive pressure from the Government did they start to return the money.
> if you where Sh.Mo and you wandered around the streets, seeing Cranes and unfinished buildings, this is not what he want to see, that’s embarrassing for him, and an eyesore for the Tourist that are coming here.
> Remember the new laws supposed to help Investors, very wishy washy, and never introduced, the 3 year property purchase sponsorship nonsense, still hasn’t been resolved, still nothing, the 60 day tourist visa reduced to 30, and all these Apartments that are filling up, are full of Ex-Pat workers, here to complete his vision, not Old Farts wanting to retire, more Malls, more Hotels, more Tourist attractions, is bringing in the Money, stay a week spend a fortune and say goodbye, this is the vision that needs to be completed.
> 
> A.


I agree 100% with this. Dubai could have been fantastic: the next London or Singapore, the financial and commercial hub of the region. It failed to achieve that goal, principally because the legal regime is dysfunctional due to the kinship and friendship network-based way of doing business in the region, which translates into favouritism and undermines slung governance.

Instead, Dubai is concentrating on tourism and air transportation (ie many people transit through the airport without setting foot in Dubai itself). I think someone hit it on the head when they said Dubai could have been New York; instead, it is Miami (or perhaps better, Panama).

Even today, it seems to me that RERA seldom if ever intervenes for property owners, especially ex-pats. It's function is to make the country look like a safe and well-regulated place to buy property, rather than to make it so. In effect, it is there to protect property developers, not their customers.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Spiralling rents have triggered an exodus of tenants from some of Dubai's most popular housing developments as double-digit inflation returns to the property market.
In a dramatic reversal of fortune, many renters who upgraded to larger homes in more desirable developments after the 2008 financial crisis are now moving the other way, brokers say.

Tenants moving from prime locations such as Emirates Living, The Palm and Arabian Ranches now account for about a quarter of the lettings business of some brokers in the city.

Cluttons, for one, reports that such business has risen from about 15 per cent six months ago to 25 per cent today.

"We are definitely seeing a movement from some tenants based in the Springs, the Lakes and the Meadows or on the Palm who have had the talk with their landlord and thought actually we can't afford to pay another Dh20,000 or whatever," said Mario Volpi, sales and leasing manager at Cluttons' Dubai office.

The recent rapid recovery in Dubai's property market has taken many residents by surprise after enjoying nearly four years of falling or static rents in most locations throughout the city.

Population growth and demand for housing from big local employers such as Emirates Airline are rapidly eating into the available stock of villas and apartments that many analysts had expected would keep rents in check for years to come.


Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...o-exodus-from-prime-dubai-areas#ixzz2NYAPMNaP 
Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook


----------



## Parisian Girl

_Dubai luxury villa prices up 20% in 2012_
http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/dubai-luxury-villa-prices-up-20-in-2012-2013-03-14-1.498479


----------



## Jodel

agod said:


> I have now been living in Dubai for four years, and can honestly say that the Penny has finally dropped, on what Dubai is all about...
> Remember the new laws supposed to help Investors, very wishy washy, and never introduced, the 3 year property purchase sponsorship nonsense, still hasn’t been resolved, still nothing, the 60 day tourist visa reduced to 30, and all these Apartments that are filling up, are full of Ex-Pat workers, here to complete his vision, not Old Farts wanting to retire, more Malls, more Hotels, more Tourist attractions, is bringing in the Money, stay a week spend a fortune and say goodbye, this is the vision that needs to be completed.
> A.


Morning Al.,
Agree with summary above but think a better description of us is "in denial".
With us it will be 6 years next month of living in Dubai and we did achieve a lot with the 3 year residence visa in 2007-2010. We got it all sorted regarding Alc. Licence/PO Box/Du/Dewa/Title Deed etc in the first year and had no major problems. Did not want to bother with the 6 months visa and gave up on my quest for the mythical "3 year investor visa" announced around June 2011. That announcement was all that was needed to achieve what was anticipated (property market recovery) By still owning a property here we can continue with all the above services contracted for in 2007 unless we want to buy a car, put kids into school or sponsor a maid. Advice from guys in Dubai Land Registry regarding visa -just drive to Hatta every 35 days and carry on as normal. We now do this and it's easy and cheap - 50dhs each. Because of doing a lot of Market Research work in Government Depts here and in AD, I also now just "go with the flow" and keep taking the blood pressure tablets.
Del. has now just about finished "the book" so we are going to be heading off around December for our next "adventure" 
Cheers Jo.


----------



## expat_h

As per the info i have, the new design is "G + 3 parking + 27 + Roof" which makes a total of 31 floors. I am not sure of the floor numbering on the building and whether it includes or excludes the parking floors. Moreover, i haven't seen any official sale campaign for the project to confirm the project details (total floors, furnishing, finishing...etc.) which explains the contradiction in info provided to all of us - even through the same real estate agency. Prior purchasing, i was told that the building had license to go up to 41 or 45 floors but they adjusted it to 31 instead and were thinking of going back again to the original plan to make 45 - no idea what happened after. Maybe that explains the delay in the sale campaign? Or they are waiting for the prices to go a bit higher so they can make more money! 

@Abu Ahmad I haven't received the receipts from Abyaar or even asked for them yet. My 2nd payment is due next week and i am supposed to receive the SPA from Abyaar after, so will ask for the receipts at the same time.

Anyone has any info when the villas will be handed over and the community landscaping will be finalized? Any info about the club house will also be appreciated.


----------



## cguria

Well put agod.. Indeed they have the vision but only a decade of experience in laws and regulation, adapted and modified mostly from Egypt, is bound to cause problems. The laws, property, residency or whatever, change literally on a monthly basis and are not acted upon thoroughly as you have pointed out.

There is too much greed in them to grow bigger and it is not in their best interest to satisfy investors. Because truth be told, greed is what drives investors who jumped ship years ago after huge losses to come back for more. This is what they understand and are using to their advantage.

I disagree with you that tourism is their only goal. I feel they are doing fairly well with investments in various industries, or trying to at least.

Dubai is that kid back on the poker table with dark shades and a lot of bank (loaned) who crashed out of last years tournament from reckless choices, but back this time to play a sensible game. I believe in the future of this country.



Jodel said:


> just drive to Hatta every 35 days and carry on as normal. We now do this and it's easy and cheap - 50dhs each.


What do you mean by this Jo?


----------



## Kshaikh

I am also waiting for the receipt.


----------



## Prodigy11UK

Hi, are most of these villas handed over now? Would there be any value in Du having a temporary onsite office? There's a new Du store in JLT Almas that is not busy yet so that might be enough if there aren't lots of handovers every day?


----------



## Josau

cguria said:


> What do you mean by this Jo?


Driving to Hatta will take you through Oman, thus technically leaving the country, which on your way back into the UAE will entitle you to another 30 days stay.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ I thought there was a plan to introduce a minimum time between re-entry for the tourist visa or a maximum stay per year to stop this?


----------



## unknownpleasures

Hey great posts guys - agod and mistermark and everyone who backs these words 100 percent....I'm totally overwhelmed...I've been saying all this for some time now (although there were mixed feelings),,,,I'm surprised it got such a positive reaction on this occasion and it's good to see. Keep it up guys you are doing everyone a positive turn! :cheers:


----------



## Green Hornet

Do any of you guys get your tenants to pay for chiller charges and if so how?


----------



## Jodel

cguria said:


> Well put agod..
> 
> 
> What do you mean by this Jo?


If you have a passport from one of the "33 countries" you can exit/re-enter UAE at the Hatta border control. This stamp allows a visit of 30 days but with a "grace period" of up to 10 days more. I always make sure it is no more than 5 weeks to be on the safe side.

The 50 dhs is paid when you "enter" Oman at the border control office and queue up for "visa change"


----------



## unknownpleasures

axe2grind said:


> So is this the May just gone or the one next year? Still sounds like very little of the interiors have been completed, stonework not being affected by humidity concerns except for the poor workers laying it down. Even if wild air is provided to allow the very expensive internal finishes to be completed how long is it planned to keep it running as the building cannot still be occupied without full electrical power supply, air conditioning, water and drainage facilities. Is the alleged Force Majeure event still in place?
> 
> I have it on good authority that Realpoint are no longer employed by RERA to undertake the so called "Independent Statement of Construction Progress" for all projects in Dubai. Their methods vastly over state the actual completion and Palazzo Versace is one of their worst evaluations as it was supposed to be over 88% complete. It clearly is not and Number 49's update indicates loads of work still to be done.
> 
> Apparently RERA are now undertaking the completion assessments themselves. Lets hope they can get a better handle on it than the last lot of incompetants.
> 
> Now for a new approach to getting Cultural Village completed. Dubai Properties walked off this site back in late 2008 and have done nothing to move the project forward for almost 4 years. Why don't all of the developers on Cultural Village come together as a group and complete the infrastructure between them and then deduct the appropriate amounts from the sale of the land which was to supposed to include the cost of the infrastructure. Even Enshaa have laid the blame at the door of Dubai Properties yet they continue to hammer their purchasers but do nothing against those that they should be targeting. A step to far I suppose or more likely the land has already been fully paid for by purchasers of units in the various buildings.
> 
> Whichever way you look at this project it is an embarassment to all involved as no one will do the right thing and stop Palazzo Versace and the whole Cultural Village fiasco until a date for recommencement of the infrastructure is announced. All lost in the heat haze descending on Dubai!


^^^ I wish I had come across your posts much earlier...thanks for being so informative and straight down the line. It's taken me some time to find out what RP was about and only found out recently that they no longer do these so called independent reviews and did nothing but waste people's time...what a joke they were...in any case, this just confirms it all....doesn't look like anyone is involved but strangely enough they now changed their name again...must have been an embarrassment to be known as RP, it was previously SP! There was a brief visit by one of them here recently trying to defend their work with RERA! 

Now the pattern appears to be clearer...all those updates from SG here ring familiar in other threads posted by employees no doubt, they all sound the same...the penny has dropped when you get the one or two liners making it all sound so near but yet so far :cheers:

PS: On a separate note, I do not believe from seeing the pictures of this project it will be completed in 2014, anyone stating this to be the case is way off base in my humble opinion but then I'm no expert, just so many like this and worse all over, it's hardly anywhere near 90 percent as indicated by the previous so called experts...what was their name, that's right the independents...


----------



## Jodel

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ I thought there was a plan to introduce a minimum time between re-entry for the tourist visa or a maximum stay per year to stop this?


This was announced some time ago - again depending on the "colour" of your passport. It was all about those who needed an actual paperwork visa rather than the entry/exit stamp we get here.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Jodel said:


> If you have a passport from one of the "33 countries" you can exit/re-enter UAE at the Hatta border control. This stamp allows a visit of 30 days but with a "grace period" of up to 10 days more. I always make sure it is no more than 5 weeks to be on the safe side.
> 
> The 50 dhs is paid when you "enter" Oman at the border control office and queue up for "visa change"


Interesting. Must take at least 5 hours round trip though? Seems a bit of a pointless hassle every month.

Also must feel a bit unsettled, because they might change the rules any time?


----------



## Jodel

Dubai_Steve said:


> Interesting. Must take at least 5 hours round trip though? Seems a bit of a pointless hassle every month.
> 
> Also must feel a bit unsettled, because they might change the rules any time?


Not a pointless hassle at all for us. The objective of that 5 hours every 5 weeks is achieved and we are then legally documented visitors to the UAE.
It's a pleasant drive, we have a great hotel breakfast at Mina' a salaam Club Lounge on the way out, collect our mail at the P O Box and afternoon tea on the way back at Al Qasr Club Lounge.

But you are correct they can and do change the rules...about a year ago the entry to Oman was 200 dhs each!!:banana:


----------



## expat_h

Thanks may12 for the info and hope you will get your title deed soon.


----------



## UAE Investor

First quarter nearly up...!

The Real Estate Investor Protection Law, which was highly expected to be issued this year, will now be released during the first quarter of 2013, a senior Dubai Land Department (DLD) official has said.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...or-protection-law-in-2013-2012-12-17-1.487481


----------



## Ali_A

axe2grind said:


> I've tried contacting the offices of Memon Real Estate who were located at M-02 Business Avenue tel. 04-2989000. Telephone is dead. Does anyone know where Memon have moved to or have they just done a RUNNER!!!!


Memon is still here. They have moved offices to Business Bay, XL Tower, Damac. Their office details are as below:


TAKMEEL Investment Ltd.

XL TOWER (Damac) Business Bay,

8th Floor Office No. 805 

P.O. Box 41950, Dubai, U. A. E

T: +971 4 3649265, F: +971 4 3649268

M: +971 55 224 6218;

Email: [email protected];


Office timings are from 9:00 AM to 5:30 PM - Saturday to Thursday.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Unfortunately many might not be in a position to travel 5 hours every month...wasn't there some sort of "guarantee" provided if you purchased a place you got a visa in the package as well?? How long did that last and were they 3 year visas...I just for the life of me cannot remember, things change so quickly there, you blink you miss! :cheers:


----------



## unknownpleasures

Appears they changed the phone number! The PO BOX remained the same see post back January 2013 on previous page....did you visit their new office? Do you know anymore about this project, please let everyone know if you had any success in finding out when this one will be completed - any updates or pictures?

Just noticed they are open Saturdays, is this all developers or just this one?


----------



## cguria

I remember it was 3 years when they announced it, but even if it does exist today it will probably the same as a normal visa of 2 years. Are there not too many limitations with the month long visa? Bank, auto, insurance, property, job? Not sure how one would deal with all of that!


----------



## unknownpleasures

> Before you travel to the UAE, please check your visa requirements and make sure you have a valid visa if needed. Holders of non-standard passports and travel documents may also have different entry requirements: please check your visa and passport requirements here.
> 
> Citizens of the GCC nations of Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and Saudi Arabia do not require a visa to travel to the UAE.
> Visas on arrival
> 
> If your country of nationality appears on the list below, no advance visa arrangements are required to visit the UAE. Simply disembark your flight at Dubai International Airport and proceed to Immigration, where your passport will be stamped with a 30-day visit visa free of charge. This can be extended for an additional 30 days at an additional charge.
> 
> Eligible countries
> Australia
> Andorra
> Austria
> Brunei
> Belgium
> Denmark
> Finland
> France
> Germany
> Greece
> Hong Kong
> Iceland
> Ireland
> Italy
> Japan
> Liechtenstein
> Luxembourg
> Malaysia
> Monaco
> Netherlands
> New Zealand
> Norway
> Portugal
> San Marino
> Singapore
> South Korea
> Spain
> Sweden
> Switzerland
> United Kingdom
> United States of America
> The Vatican
> 
> Travellers from countries not listed above will need to arrange a visa in advance of travel.


http://www.emirates.com/english/pla...tion/visa_passport_information/uae_visas.aspx


----------



## AW.

D/All, 

Construction has started in full swing. Although it started with a slight bit of delay. The 2nd installment was due in January 2013. However Emaar has not asked for this payment so far. Which makes the project late by approx 2 / 3 months now.

So far so good...

Regards


----------



## Scailer

building1 said:


> Yes, there is one studio on every floor. All studios are sold.


I have a contract for one bedroom apartment ain Olgana Tower and would like to sell it. The floor is rather high, and it has a partial sea view.


----------



## agod

Funny thing is, even Sh.Mo has been advised not to invest in Dubai!!

Interesting articles here 
http://www.luxist.com/tag/Sheikh+Mohammed+bin+Rashid+Al-Maktoum/


----------



## buster007

THFC said:


> Show Flat photos are up on their FB page. Quality finish


If you have seen the show apartments and your verdict is that it is of a "quality finish". The only way an investment in West Avenue would similarly have a quality finish is to buy this very show apartment.

In order words, wait for project and/or fitting completion to judge the true quality of these apartments.


----------



## chefdude

Does anybody know when the last time the RERA rental index was actually updated or is it just so out of date now that it has become irrelevant?


----------



## jvinvestor

*Re uzman*

Hi uzman,

I concur with what the other guys say, Sunset Gardens a and b are being processed by the courts. There was a developer looking to takeover one of the projects but it didnt materialise.


----------



## celticmonkey

Sienna lakes and Olive point have to be two of the highest quality products on the market. Many of their villas are completed and fitted out with villeroy bosch items such as Jacquozi, sink, shower etc. There is some good progress on site and I think we are about to see a lot of interest in JGE. I offered 950 a foot for a property, cash and got turned down. The seller was not moving from 1100. The new Al Fay access road means JGE is less than 10 mins from emirates living, easier to access the arabian ranches and also victory heights. JGE is a sleeping tiger. get ready for a bull run.


----------



## PrincessTower

unknownpleasures said:


> ...perhaps you can enlighten us all on how the growth in 12 months occurred in DSC?



I have been keeping track of selling prices in various areas, and many individual buildings for two years, including DSC. it's not like a big secret now anymore that prices have been going up the last 12 months. one could have seen the bottom a year or two ago before they went up and taken action instead of bashing the market.  I personally don't really care how many will disagree, because many disagreed with me being bullish 12 months ago so they are welcome to continue to do so.


----------



## R Malhotra

Even if the shell is ready in couple of months, the question will be that they will require majority of funds to complete the bldg. My understanding is that 60% of the project cost is required for finishing the bldg and only 30% to 40% is required for the shell.


----------



## unknownpleasures

PrincessTower said:


> I have been keeping track of selling prices in various areas, and many individual buildings for two years, including DSC. it's not like a big secret now anymore that prices have been going up the last 12 months. one could have seen the bottom a year or two ago before they went up and taken action instead of bashing the market.  I personally don't really care how many will disagree, because many disagreed with me being bullish 12 months ago so they are welcome to continue to do so.


I've been following this place for the past 6 years not just in the last 12 months, if you feel it's gone up please advise where you base this information on as no where does it state this anywhere. Areas like the Marina and other places yes and it involves villas etc. And your posts have been centred mainly around the Marina, Infinity and Princess Tower, strangely enough I've not seen you around or even mention DSC before I'm not sure where or who is informing you about these prices going up in DSC because it has nothing to do with any of the towers there (if in fact you can call them that). I believe the highest one there is the Bridge the rest are stubbies as someone else described and quite ugly. Being bullish is perhaps the problem you may have as I have not seen any interest by you in DSC previously so that makes it a little difficult. Someone must have set you up oh I see who it is...cheers and perhaps we need to end it here as I have my views and you obviously have yours!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Hi Cavendish Maxwell, looks like you've been busy again, the one below is from their website..can you advise what project is the empty plot in the two pictures you've taken? cheers.

http://oi45.tinypic.com/24xjiuq.jpg

http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/820/sam1746p.jpg

http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/59/sam1745o.jpg


----------



## PrincessTower

unknownpleasures said:


> ...Being bullish is perhaps the problem you may have...cheers and perhaps we need to end it here as I have my views and you obviously have yours!


oh yes of course, now that someone has a different opinion from yours we will need to end it there. after you been sharing countless bearish opinions one after the other that is!! way to go. :nono:


----------



## unknownpleasures

PrincessTower said:


> oh yes of course, now that someone has a different opinion from yours we will need to end it there. after you been sharing countless bearish opinions one after the other that is!! way to go. :nono:





PrincessTower said:


> I personally don't really care how many will disagree, because many disagreed with me being bullish 12 months ago so they are welcome to continue to do so.


^^^^ Your words not mine! :wink:

Mate I'm happy to continue with the debate but the forum here doesn't like the idea as they believe it somehow is perceived as arguments which in my view isn't the case. Have you had a chance to provide the information re prices going up for the past 12 months in DSC (relating to apartments), please go ahead and do so as I haven't seen anything from you yet....

But if people start to complain and report to moderators then we will have to end it as some people get a bit touchy over here I have noticed something that doesn't occur in some other threads or even other forums..



> The most significant price increase was noted for villas, such as in Arabian Ranches, the master planned community by Emaar Properties, which led the growth in values during the year. High end apartments in Downtown Dubai and Emirates Living also reported price appreciation, highlighting the growing investor confidence led by a buoyant market.


I hadn't noticed this before but now I know why Arabian Ranches shot up to the top yet it it is further away from DSC...it's an *Emaar* planned project! 

I've also provided links, not at all bearish as you make me out to be...a personal attack mate and I would suggest that you end that sort of thing straight off. I'm here to debate not to be ridiculed!

http://m.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-villa-prices-rise-up-30-in-2012-488016.html

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=213753136430150418512.00045acbd50b16f2aa051


----------



## cguria

Bungalow1 said:


> They are Not interested at all. They are real estate agents, their Job is to sell, to calm frustrated investors, to produce a buzz and then a hype, To keep prices high etc. Everyone who reads this forum should get the impression that there are really people out there who buy a flat in PV for 3000/sqf. Interesting Point you made concerning the completed but empty High rises in Dubai. At least these developers have finished their job, although the market does not appreciate it.


I would not be on this forum if I wasn't 'interested'. Nor would I be interested if my family didn't have AED 2.4m stuck in this project alone as well as in PJA. I'm not an agent, yet, and have no interest in gaining your business through this forum, but I speak my opinion. I believe that Dubai is back and will witness tremendous growth in the coming years for a multiple of reasons. This project will turn out beautifully however it's very long term. 3000-3200/sqft is the current market price and the highest it went to before the crash was 3800-4000, not long now before it reaches that level. From an end user point of view, I suggest to buy only after visiting the sites show apartment. From an investors point of view, the price itself is an indicator that buyers are coming back. There are, of course, other areas in Dubai that can give you better returns in the short term.


----------



## UAE Investor

^^^^^^^^^^:lol:


----------



## unknownpleasures

Agree :lol: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: lots here are doubles..."Indeed"!


----------



## sgn7200

skinnygirl said:


> Well boys....lots of negative comments all based on nothing at all...as usual.
> 
> So....here are some facts:
> 
> There are workers on the site, there is no dispute with Kele (if you don't believe me phone Kele and ask them) sales are going well and prices are rising.
> 
> If you have a S & P Agreement you will see that construction delays don't warrant compensation and investors (including me) have no grounds for a court case. No point in moaning about it, just ask a lawyer if you think I'm wrong. Or, you can ask Bister as he/she seems to think there is a case.
> 
> Culture Village is a great location and will all be developed. However, there are currently some very dodgy developers (e.g. DEC) and until,they are out of the way progress will be slow. However, the development of PV and the D1 will not be affected and Completion is still scheduled for end of 2013.
> 
> Some advice....go and have a site visit and you will see what is actually happening rather than take any notice of some of the rubbish written by Mark10 (is that his age?) and the rest.


*I AGREE WITH YOU THAT CULTURE VILLAGE IS A GREAT LOCATION. IF AND WHEN IT IS DEVELOPED, IT WILL BRING PRIDE TO DUBAI. BUT CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME TWO THINGS: (1) IN YOUR OPINION, WHEN WILL CULTURE VILLAGE BE DEVELOPED AND (2) HOW ARE THESE SO CALLED "DODGY DEVELOPERS E.G. DEC" HOLDING UP PROGRESS AND THUS THEY NEED TO BE KICKED OUT. DEC ARE SAYING THEY WANT TO PROCEED WITH CONSTRUCTION BUT AUTHORITIES ARE NOT GIVING THEM NOC TO GET ON WITH THEIR JOB. *


----------



## Freestyler

Prices are going up in all the location where is end user demand -- where most area is developed, has community, and other facilities. Prices in DSC has gone up but not that much, most of the area is still underdeveloped. I mentioned before master developer should focus on consolidating the projects and push to build good infrastructure and community. Main problem with DSC is there are so many sub standard developers there and they are spread over too many projects. Same problem is with Dubailand developments.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Berliner01 said:


> Depends how fast they proceed. If they have sufficient funds they can finish it within a year, but if they suspend the work again it can take ages


Is there any reason why they are continually in suspension mode? This is not just in this place it's all over Dubai. My main interest lies in DSC and there it is rampant but I have to say I take an interest in all comments made on these threads as it shows there are issues all over the place which isn't a good thing if people have been led to believe these projects were to be completed by a certain date or close to the date (anything between 6 months to 12 months delay is not a big thing but if it goes beyond that time....then there is an issue), when it extends to 6 years this is when it becomes a big problem as people start to think and worry, particularly when there are still holes in the ground and the place hasn't seen the light of day. I have to say this one has been delayed but at least there has been progress a lot more than a lot of other places but still a big worry as it could mean it may never get finished and their investment dream goes up in smoke particularly if there are large amounts of monies spent - people are left dangling on a tight rope instead...people paid in good faith therefore it must be finished and the delays need to stop imo :cheers:


----------



## unknownpleasures

axe2grind said:


> I think, finally, the penny has dropped that this project cannot be completed without Dubai Properties coming back to site to complete the infrastructure. Even skinnygirl,the great apologist for PV, is now saying the same when she was previously putting the blame at the door of those nasty investors who have stopped paying into something that cannot be completed as it currently stands.
> 
> I have some recent photographs of the inside of this building and they will reveal the extent of what is still left to do, just need some help in uploading them to this blog.
> 
> Any advice welcomed.


Just realised the name sounded familiar "Dubai Properties" (Dubai Holidings - connections to the ruler I believe as well), it's the same mob responsible for Dubailand, no wonder it's all a mess over there and here as well. I agree, blaming the investor isn't the right thing to do, the majority paid in good faith and expected something in return...if any left because they could smell a rat no one can blame them as it's been a very long time between what their contracts stated and when completion will eventually be....just a stab in the dark now. As I have pointed out in other threads blaming the investor is totally impossible because a lot of projects were unsold and still built and even during the GFC, see the DSC thread and there are three which are vacant and have been completed???!!! (the contract only a waste of paper as none of the developers take notice of what is written imo)......

PS; The info is above how to post pics :cheers:


----------



## Abuturab_zaidi

Hi all , 
I have been approached by a couple of real estate agents recently , theyve been pitching me studios in this tower, i went to check out the site and seriously was not very impressed with the speed of the construction, though location is excellent and i do see a grey structure upto around 17 or 18 floors , as per what ive understood is that the developer has given 2014 last quarter as the completion date. 
1. kindly advise if its worth getting into . 
2. kindly advise if however i do decide to enter this project what should be the right price per square ft. 
3. what happens in case RERA cancel's the project . 
would highly appreciate any advise.


----------



## celticmonkey

Yes, al fay rd feeds off al khail road and crosses over emirates road. Giving direct access to jge. I firmly believe jge is going to surprise the market. Ease of access was a huge issue, now resolved. Club house work is starting , this will be greatly appreciated for the dommunity and i think by year end we will see end users bringing life to the development. If u can snap up a cheap cash deal then jge is worth keeping an eye on.


----------



## FromWarsaw

^^

Just out of curiosity, what price per sqft. you have received from real estate agents?

P.S. I really don't think this project will be cancelled by RERA.


----------



## aidy

Why dont u join the investors group and u will know what is going on


----------



## unknownpleasures

Advertised March 2013

says - Handover on end of May 2013 ? Only time will tell!

The Matrix
Brand New, Fully Furnished 1 Bedroom Apartment 2 bath
924 sq.ft.,	Apartment
AED 850,000


----------



## unknownpleasures

Doesn't say when handover will be on this one...

Furnished Studio unit for sale in AED 345,000. Payment Plan 70% Now 30% on Handover

Community : Sports City
Building : Elite 6
Bedrooms : Studio
View : Partial Canal
Built up Area : 525 sqft.
Furnished: Fully Furnished
Fittings : All Fixtures :
Amenities : 24 Hour Security, Large size swimming pool, Children's pool Gymnasium, Steam & Sauna room,


Elite 6 Studio
AED 375,375
Sq.Ft. 525 

Note the difference in price range, same size


----------



## unknownpleasures

Current Market Price for this off plan...googled the following - these two have been added onto the property market as of 7/4/13 (last update)

Elite 5
AED 375,000
Sq.Ft. 535 

AMENITIES & FEATURES: * G+20 floors Residential Tower * With appealing looks, modern concept and functional design * Studio and 1 Bedroom Freehold apartments * Fully equipped kitchen: Refrigerator, Washing Machine, Microwave & Oven * Escrow account compliance-total security for your investment * Covered car parking * Swimming Pool * Health Club * Steam and Sauna * Gymnasium * B.B.Q. area for residents

Payment Plan Down Payment 30% * Floor 10% Superstructure 20% 3 Months After SS 10% Handover 30% 100%

Didn't think they were selling off plan but it appears because this one it out of the ground and there have been others completed perhaps this developer is not as bad as the others who have left other people with just holes.

http://oi47.tinypic.com/m7z4o9.jpg


Elite 5 1 bed 1 bath
AED 580,000
Sq.Ft. 1,055


----------



## Global Player

unknownpleasures said:


> Mostly in line are laborers in place for agents <<< "the lucky few" ^^^^ interesting isn't it...first come first serve basis?...not a very fair way of doing it...hno:
> 
> Hang on people there are heaps in DSC which are unsold, why this place instead of getting Villas or apartments over in DSC...what's the difference, this one is further away for starters..just curious as to why not finish one community and move onto the next?
> 
> Can the name of this thread be changed to reflect the correct name of this project..."Reem desert oasis" :cheers:
> 
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/hund...e-for-new-emaar-project-497586.html?message=3


agreed this is not "fair play" - as the pakistani/indian/bangladeshi laborers, drivers and/or servants of the real investor/buyer/property agents are paid approx AED 2K to stand in line for hrs/days in this case. i have seen this myself for the panorama launch - i got token 149 that day. also for my other emaar properties, i got them all at launch, but this, for the MIRA in REEM is quite the mayhem.

as for Dubai Sports City, in my opinion that is a "failed" project - similar to JVC, and if not failed then moved back at least 5 yrs. you see a few buildings here and there, in the middle of sand. thing is those are NOT emaar launches, but individual construction companies/builders, lots of whom did not even deliver and ran away with investor money. 

EMAAR is a brand that delivers, builds on prime land, and has quality and most importantly, gives a great yield to any investor, be it long term or short. personally i would not invest in any other builder other than them. 

i always stood in line for all the property i have bought through them, and wudn't pay some poor soul to stand there for me. next phase for REEM i'll stand in line, be it for two days - it's individual choices at the end of the day - or just go to that line up outside building 3 early saturday morning and offer someone more than what they got and take their spot 

there needs to be a process by EMAAR for these line-ups now. for example when the line starts to build up, as in today for a launch scheduled in 2 days time, EMAAR reps should come out, clip board/paper in hand and note down each person's name and passport or any photo ID number. ONLY THOSE ON THE LIST can enter, or have the chance to buy property when doors open. as none of the "hundreds" standing outside right now are actual buyers. that would filter out alllllll of them, send them packing home, and the real buyers standing in line would get in FAIR AND SQUARE. this would also teach agents and manipulators of a system a lesson!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Global Player said:


> agreed this is not "fair play" - as the pakistani/indian/bangladeshi laborers, drivers and/or servants of the real investor/buyer/property agents are paid approx AED 2K to stand in line for hrs/days in this case. i have seen this myself for the panorama launch - i got token 149 that day. also for my other emaar properties, i got them all at launch, but this, for the MIRA in REEM is quite the mayhem.
> 
> as for Dubai Sports City, in my opinion that is a "failed" project - similar to JVC, and if not failed then moved back at least 5 yrs. you see a few buildings here and there, in the middle of sand. thing is those are NOT emaar launches, but individual construction companies/builders, lots of whom did not even deliver and ran away with investor money.
> 
> EMAAR is a brand that delivers, builds on prime land, and has quality and most importantly, gives a great yield to any investor, be it long term or short. personally i would not invest in any other builder other than them.
> 
> i always stood in line for all the property i have bought through them, and wudn't pay some poor soul to stand there for me. next phase for REEM i'll stand in line, be it for two days - it's individual choices at the end of the day - or just go to that line up outside building 3 early saturday morning and offer someone more than what they got and take their spot
> 
> there needs to be a process by EMAAR for these line-ups now. for example when the line starts to build up, as in today for a launch scheduled in 2 days time, EMAAR reps should come out, clip board/paper in hand and note down each person's name and passport or any photo ID number. ONLY THOSE ON THE LIST can enter, or have the chance to buy property when doors open. as none of the "hundreds" standing outside right now are actual buyers. that would filter out alllllll of them, send them packing home, and the real buyers standing in line would get in FAIR AND SQUARE. this would also teach agents and manipulators of a system a lesson!


Agree on DSC (many taken for a big ride), although I was thinking along the lines of Emaar coming to it's rescue...there is a master developer there you would think they would be in talks with Emaar...

You are right Emaar should change the process and only allow "buyers" to purchase...even open it up on line where name, passport and ID's must be provided, if they don't check out then those properties once again to be let out to the market to give another buyer a chance. There is no mention however when this project will be completed, MIRA is phase 1!! No labourer should be standing in line for any agent or anyone as they could be there to collect more than just one.

Personally I wouldn't invest in Dubai, know too many people who did and have lost all their money as it was all guaranteed that nothing would go wrong.

Nakheel at one time was on top, now Emaar! Most people seem to place full trust in Emaar now, perhaps finishing projects is the the reason whereas others have failed although they did also have their share of issues at one time. :cheers:

As for Bawadi...that is probably along the lines as DSC..... hno:


----------



## advlive

Chakazoolu said:


> and what happened to Bawadi?


Bawadi now on hold and anyone paid nothing yet . Reem also in front of Bawadi


----------



## Scailer

mzee78 said:


> Any studio for sale in good per square ft?


I have a hotel studio and would like to sell it. 90% paid = 150 000$. I want to return the money....


----------



## Jodel

cguria said:


> Don't be fooled by this number. Most properties are listed more than once, some even over 5 times I've seen. And also, many of the listings might not actually still be valid after one month of posting as there are agents who will leave them on just to get leads.


You are so right!! also with property for sale eg. on propertyfinder.ae JBR 3 bed apt. Murjan 1 - *25* listed. BUT at least one of these *25* is on *8 times* with different agents but *same pictures*
This is just one example, so the total numbers "available" as shown in these listings are wildly inaccurate and totally useless.
PS I think the above property must have already gone as it has been listed for months, so again as you say, this ploy is just to conjure up leads.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Jodel said:


> also with property for sale eg. on propertyfinder.ae JBR 3 bed apt. Murjan 1 - *25* listed. BUT at least one of these *25* is on *8 times* with different agents but *same pictures*
> This is just one example, so the total numbers "available" as shown in these listings are wildly inaccurate and totally useless.
> PS I think the above property must have already gone as it has been listed for months, so again as you say, this ploy is just to conjure up leads.


Then it must be the case in DSC,,,I got up to page 22 and it was still ongoing with so many for sale yet no one purchasing and updated continually...there are three buildings there completed yet abandoned many of these are listed for sale ....so what happens with the real estate industry if they continue to mislead?


----------



## Jodel

unknownpleasures said:


> ..so what happens with the real estate industry if they continue to mislead?


Nothing of course!!

From Jan.1st 2013 the official RERA instruction was supposed to be enforced - i.e. that property for sale could only be listed with 2 or 3 Agents absolute max.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Jodel said:


> Nothing of course!!
> 
> From Jan.1st 2013 the official RERA instruction was supposed to be enforced - i.e. that property for sale could only be listed with 2 or 3 Agents absolute max.


Is that right? So again RERA fail to monitor...not surprising however do people take this or raise concern with someone, who are the local government representatives or does it work differently over there...


----------



## building1

Scailer said:


> I have a hotel studio and would like to sell it. 90% paid = 150 000$. I want to return the money....


just sent you a PM


----------



## unknownpleasures

unknownpleasures said:


> Then it must be the case in DSC,,,I got up to page 22 and it was still ongoing with so many for sale yet no one purchasing and updated continually...there are three buildings there completed yet abandoned many of these are listed for sale ....so what happens with the real estate industry if they continue to mislead?


Update: Since writing the above earlier...I now find there are only 13 pages of properties listed at DSC on pf...how quick the word gets around!:lol::lol:


----------



## T-800

*Lawns 2 status*

Hello everyone,

I've visited the Land Department/RERA on Thursday and I can confirm without a doubt that Lawns 2 is cancelled.

I then visited the Dubai Courts. There is a section called Litigants Guidance Center. Yes it's an interesting name but their job is to advise on legal options.

In this case I have requested the Dubai Courts to provide me with a formal status on the project. They will request a report from the Land Department.

In order to get this you have to go in person or someone can head down there with power of attorney and provide the following:
1. A copy of your passport details + visa 
2. A copy of the english SPA (they only asked for the pages with the project details)
3. A copy of certified Arabic translation of SPA (same with English they only wanted project details) Note: if you plan to go to court you'll need the entire contract full translated and certified by a legal translation shop.
Very important note: when you translate the contract EVERYTHING must be in Arabic, this means project name, your name, developer name, etc

They staff there was very friendly, it took me longer to find parking than to process my request.

I'd suggest heading there in a taxi/bus instead of your car.

They claim it will take between 2-3 weeks to receive the report. 
Once I have this they will provide with a lawyer who will review my case pro bono and discuss what options I have.

I'll let you all know what happens.


----------



## Jodel

unknownpleasures said:


> Update: only 13 pages of properties listed on pf...how quick the word gets around!:lol::lol:


My example above at JBR also appears to have been "updated" as it now only shows the same property listed* 6 times* with* 6 different agents*
Also noticed on the pf site that if you go to the "details" page for any property you can report the property (advert) online.
-several possible reasons given in a helpful drop-down menu include "property not available"


----------



## Impy

*RERA RENTAL INCREASE CALCULATOR*

I have been trying to use the calculator for several weeks now and keep getting the response - "The rental index under updating.Please contact [email protected]"
Any ideas what rent a two bed, mid floor unfurnished apartment in The Torch should be achieving now ?
It would help if the calculator could ever work !!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Jodel said:


> My example above at JBR also appears to have been "updated" as it now only shows the same property listed* 6 times* with* 6 different agents*
> Also noticed on the pf site that if you go to the "details" page for any property you can report the property (advert) online.
> -several possible reasons given in a helpful drop-down menu include "property not available"


Yeah I had a look but it says report scams when selecting that options!!! Is it to report the agent of scamming :lol:


----------



## building1

How did the launch go ? Are the first ones selling already ? At what premium ?


----------



## nassah

what's up - is it sold - share you experience - Is there any condition for re-sale

I will buy if any re-sale


----------



## PrincessTower

Impy said:


> I have been trying to use the calculator for several weeks now and keep getting the response - "The rental index under updating.Please contact [email protected]"
> Any ideas what rent a two bed, mid floor unfurnished apartment in The Torch should be achieving now ?
> It would help if the calculator could ever work !!


110-115k roughly, give and take depending on the unit, view, tenant and agent.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

110-125k for unfurnished in the Torch. 125k for mid floor marina facing ones.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Found this Impy....the torch - doesn't say what level it is but from the photos it looks fairly high up but it does say it hasn't been lived in. It depends on the size as well not sure what you are really looking for but if you have a look at most of the websites or google the torch 2 bed for sale that's how I found this info.. 

2-bed
Size: 1,271sq ft
1,250,000.00 AED = 340,358.33 USD
or
1,250,000.00 AED = 221,804.06 GBP


or this

Torch with marina and golf course views - from the pics it looks around mid height maybe a little more.

Size: 1,271sq ft
Price: AED 1,450,000
1,450,000.00 AED = 257,292.71 GBP
1,450,000.00 AED = 394,815.66 USD


To rent here is a 2 bed 

Dubai Marina - The Torch 1,270 Sq. Ft. AED 110,000 - this one is sea view...

110,000.00 AED = 29,951.53 USD
= 19,518.76 GBP


Found this one as well to rent 2 bed on 22nd floor. Views of the Marina and a partial sea view towards The Palm Jumeirah. Fitted with quality furniture.

Type: Apartment
Status: For Rent
Bedrooms: 2
Area: 1,227 Sq. Ft.	
Rent: 18,000 AED	
Updated: 2 hours ago

Not sure if this one is an error but it sounds a bit cheap.... 18,000 AED??


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Torch 2 beds

To Rent:



















To Buy:












arfie said:


> I have received an offer of 125k rent (4 cheques) for my 2 bed marina facing apartment today. So a sign the rental market is quite strong with 10-15% increase from last year.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Dubai_Steve said:


> Torch 2 beds
> 
> To Rent:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Buy:



That's pretty flashy DB not like mine! Well done...but you agree that the prices are all pretty close to the ones already mentioned... :cheers:


----------



## IISinbadII

dave83 said:


> What do people think about investing in a small studio - in the 450-500k AED range in JLT, primarily for income.
> 
> There are so many units there, would it be easy to let out a small studio there. The real test, or question perhaps for me, is how were the studios there doing in 2010-2011? In boom time in Dubai everything is great, its the recessions which are hard for places where there is supply.
> 
> What I would not want is an apartment staying empty for 1 month a year.
> 
> Would appreciate any thoughts.


Also consider studios in Discovery Gardens (DG). With rental returns as high as 8% they are still attractive. And they did well during the recession years.


----------



## IISinbadII

Jodel said:


> If you have a passport from one of the "33 countries" you can exit/re-enter UAE at the Hatta border control. This stamp allows a visit of 30 days but with a "grace period" of up to 10 days more. I always make sure it is no more than 5 weeks to be on the safe side.
> 
> The 50 dhs is paid when you "enter" Oman at the border control office and queue up for "visa change"


Do the officials ever ask, why you are doing this i.e. exiting/re-entering and staying in UAE without a proper long term/resident visa?


----------



## IISinbadII

fazsnatch said:


> Where is a good place to look for investment areas in dubai/
> 
> Which is the key and up rising areas to invest?


There are always some exceptions but IMHO, its best to stick with the good old basics:

-Location, location, location. 
Developments on/near business areas and Sheikh Zayed Rd like Marina, Downtown/Burj, Greens, Discovery Gardens, JLT, Business Bay, etc. Also proximity to the Metro stations and major shopping Malls is important. 

-Go for completed or nearly completed projects (stay away from off-plan sales)

-Choose your developer carefully. 
Think about government backed developers like Emaar, Nakheel, etc. Their products retain their value and are the most sought after developments. 

-And finally go for units with a good view or something extra (like a study, maids room or private garden). This helps during recession when competition is high.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Torch 2 beds
> 
> To Rent:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Buy:


Spoke to an agent the other day who told me he just rented a 2 bed in Torch 12th floor for 85k and a 1 bed, not sure the floor, 67k.

The roads are a complete mess in the area surrounding the Torch and the road between Torch and Emirates Crown has been completely dug up!


----------



## True Blue

IISinbadII said:


> There are always some exceptions but IMHO, its best to stick with the good old basics:
> 
> -Location, location, location.
> Developments on/near business areas and Sheikh Zayed Rd like Marina, Downtown/Burj, Greens, Discovery Gardens, JLT, Business Bay, etc. Also proximity to the Metro stations and major shopping Malls is important.
> 
> -Go for completed or nearly completed projects (stay away from off-plan sales)
> 
> -Choose your developer carefully.
> Think about government backed developers like Emaar, Nakheel, etc. Their products retain their value and are the most sought after developments.
> 
> -And finally go for units with a good view or something extra (like a study, maids room or private garden). This helps during recession when competition is high.


I don't particularly agree with the comments about Emaar and Nakheel. They are not government backed any more. They have to stand on their own feet now. Some of Nakheels projects are a disaster with poor build quality and issues of badly managed maintenance and repairs. Also inflated maintenance charges.

The main thing these developers have is easy access to mortgages.


----------



## dave83

What do you think about buying a small studio in JLT in an average tower at the back. Price is low and for me the ROI would be okay if it rents out at 38k or so consistently, it was renting out at 36k in 2011.


----------



## dave83

True Blue said:


> Spoke to an agent the other day who told me he just rented a 2 bed in Torch 12th floor for 85k and a 1 bed, not sure the floor, 67k.
> 
> The roads are a complete mess in the area surrounding the Torch and the road between Torch and Emirates Crown has been completely dug up!


I have to second that. I don't know much about Torch but DO NOT go by the advertised prices on Dubizzle. There's about six studios letting in a building where I own a studio, for asking prices 55-70k, the variation is absolutely retarded since they are all more or less the same, some with better views, some furnished. 

I could have let mine for 52-53k if I waited perhaps 2 extra weeks, but I took a 50k offer and let it go - it had been vacant for 3 weeks. I have seen the 60-65k studios constantly being advertised for 4-5 weeks - why not just set your price realistically and get your apartment let at the market price?


----------



## sgn7200

Hello AltinD and True Blue! Can you give us some update please. Seem to be completely at a loss to understand as to what is happening. On the one hand we hear Dubai Property market is gaining momentum and there are long ques for some newly launched projects, on the other hand there are still developers like DEC who are spoiling the image of Dubai by resorting to a policy of Start/Stop and thus leading to "Never Finish". Thanks for all the information you have given us todate.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I am not sure I understand your point. A marina view apartment should surely achieve a higher rental than one without much of a view. Also there are often different layouts and sizes within the same building.

That is why the larger 2 beds with marina view with separate kitchen in the Torch are renting for the 115k to 125k range for example, whereas the smaller, lower floor (less popular layouts) apartments, with no marina view are renting for less.

Road works might affect demand in the tallest block for a while but not a permanent problem.


----------



## Wac

T-800 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I've visited the Land Department/RERA on Thursday and I can confirm without a doubt that Lawns 2 is cancelled.
> 
> I then visited the Dubai Courts. There is a section called Litigants Guidance Center. Yes it's an interesting name but their job is to advise on legal options.
> 
> In this case I have requested the Dubai Courts to provide me with a formal status on the project. They will request a report from the Land Department.
> 
> In order to get this you have to go in person or someone can head down there with power of attorney and provide the following:
> 1. A copy of your passport details + visa
> 2. A copy of the english SPA (they only asked for the pages with the project details)
> 3. A copy of certified Arabic translation of SPA (same with English they only wanted project details) Note: if you plan to go to court you'll need the entire contract full translated and certified by a legal translation shop.
> Very important note: when you translate the contract EVERYTHING must be in Arabic, this means project name, your name, developer name, etc
> 
> They staff there was very friendly, it took me longer to find parking than to process my request.
> 
> I'd suggest heading there in a taxi/bus instead of your car.
> 
> They claim it will take between 2-3 weeks to receive the report.
> Once I have this they will provide with a lawyer who will review my case pro bono and discuss what options I have.
> 
> I'll let you all know what happens.


Hi T-800; Thanks for this valuable information. Please keep us updated as I have 75% paid into this Lawns 2 project and it will be a blessing if I could recover that.


----------



## Docmo1

went ahead and did what might turn out to be my life's biggest misstake and bought a unit in this building!

Was wondering if anyone else has bought in this project?

Anyone know how the pogress is now?

The worrying thing is that after 7 weeks i have yet to recieve my SPA (sale and purchase agreement)! The only thing proving that i have paid the 20% installment is a so called "resrvation form" ( which i got through the real estate agent and is signed by someone i've never actually seen). Time to get back to the real estate agent and whip some A#%?


----------



## Josau

Docmo1 said:


> went ahead and did what might turn out to be my life's biggest misstake and bought a unit in this building!
> 
> Was wondering if anyone else has bought in this project?
> 
> Anyone know how the pogress is now?
> 
> The worrying thing is that after 7 weeks i have yet to recieve my SPA (sale and purchase agreement)! The only thing proving that i have paid the 20% installment is a so called "resrvation form" ( which i got through the real estate agent and is signed by someone i've never actually seen). Time to get back to the real estate agent and whip some A#%?


Boy, you're courageous. I stood in front of this project recently and it looked like nothing has moved in years.


----------



## zukihippo

s.y said:


> Just be aware not to buy an apartment that have already been purchased by another investor it seems Al masah has been selling the apartments that been sold by previous management.


 
Dear S.Y. From where did you get this info.. ?
I would like to read more about it if you have a link please


----------



## auzdafluff

sgn7200 said:


> Hello AltinD and True Blue! Can you give us some update please. Seem to be completely at a loss to understand as to what is happening. On the one hand we hear Dubai Property market is gaining momentum and there are long ques for some newly launched projects, on the other hand there are still developers like DEC who are spoiling the image of Dubai by resorting to a policy of Start/Stop and thus leading to "Never Finish". Thanks for all the information you have given us todate.


I think you have to be very careful about making those sorts of comparisons. Those are new projects, and the people buying into them are taking an incredible gamble.

There is nothing to say – other than Emaar's past reputation – that these new projects won't simply have the same happen to them once it has made its profit.


----------



## True Blue

It's funny how people still believe they are safe with Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Properties thinking wrongly that they are backed by the government. A statement was released years ago after the collapse that the government is just a shareholder and does not guarantee any of the companies debt. 

Dubai was once a place where people could not conceive that they might get screwed. Now I would say you are highly likely to get screwed over if you buy off plan. It's casino investing now.


----------



## haseeb_eng

As per my understanding any developer is having the right to cancel the units if he investor doesn't pay the payment on time. I am not sure about the exact law with land department but what i know is that developer can file the case against investor in land department and that's how the registration on the name of old investor gets cancelled due to non-payment.

You can contact land department to get more details regarding this.

The prices these days seems to be around 750 dirhams per sq. feet depending on the floor level.

Good luck.


----------



## haseeb_eng

Also, as soon as you buy any property anywhere in Dubai make sure that you register with land department OQOOD. 

You have to inform the developer to immediately apply for your OQOOD with land department which takes couple of days only. This will give you protection as an investor by adding the record with Dubai government and ensures nobody touches your apartment without giving you heads up. So even if something goes wrong in the payment and developer files the case against you, the land department will contact you as well to check what's going on before cancelling the registration from your name.


----------



## Towers3

CT investors please join. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/518104194923742/


----------



## kitayabi

Good luck Docmo, ive been looking in to this project as a possible investment but will not go any further until I see more activity on the site.


----------



## RP2

Any news on Lawns 3, i have two units in lawns 3. I have sent several emails to Shaikh at DEC but there is no response. Could someone kindly advise how to proceed.


----------



## UAE Investor

Towers3 said:


> CT investors please join.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/518104194923742/





> This content is currently unavailable
> The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.


.......?


----------



## Towers3

UAE Investor said:


> .......?


= You may not have permission to view this page. 

U don't want to join?


----------



## beer51

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...tenants-for-any-rent-hike-2013-04-17-1.502855

Dubai landlords must give 90-day notice to tenants for any rent hike
Increase has to be as per the Rera rent calculator: Land Department
By

Parag Deulgaonkar

Published Wednesday, April 17, 2013

A landlord must give a 90-day notice to his tenant if he plans to increase the rent, which has to be based on Real Estate Regulatory Agency’s (Rera) rent index, the Dubai Land Department (DLD) has said.

The rent increase calculator can be accessed online at www.dubailand.gov.ae

...


----------



## Colin83

*re*

I think you can invest in Dubai because there the real estate is growing and you can easily get a huge profit from the real estate.And the investment in the real estate all over the world is growing.So its a good time to invest in real estate.


----------



## cguria

Impy said:


> I have been trying to use the calculator for several weeks now and keep getting the response - "The rental index under updating.Please contact [email protected]"
> Any ideas what rent a two bed, mid floor unfurnished apartment in The Torch should be achieving now ?
> It would help if the calculator could ever work !!


This worked for me: changing the expiry date on the contract to an earlier date, say 1 month from now, returns a result at least!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Impy said:


> I have been trying to use the calculator for several weeks now and keep getting the response - "The rental index under updating.Please contact [email protected]"
> Any ideas what rent a two bed, mid floor unfurnished apartment in The Torch should be achieving now ?
> It would help if the calculator could ever work !!


It still does not work and it is not a suitable system anyway, no wonder people are ignoring it!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> It's surprising how many people who are RERA registered agents and who don't understand the laws regulating their domain.
> 
> I am having this issue with BH as they said last year that I was unable to increase my rent in the first year "that is the law". Seems not!
> 
> http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/english/Tanzeem/Rentals/Rental_Indicator.aspx
> 
> The key is the fact that Law no 62 was passed for rents that existed before the end of 2010 and were to be renewed in 2011. If the rental commenced in 2011 then it is not a renewal and therefore the law can not be applied. *It specifically states that it only covers renewals in 2011* and not renewals in general therefore it can not be applied to renewals in 2012 or 2013. Consequently, if you try to use the increase calculator for renewals happening in 2013 it just returns an error, "calculator is updating data" or something like that.
> 
> This seems to have been allowed to lapse as there was no need for it any more. Rents fell in 2010/11 and therefore the authorities saw no need to maintain it. Now rents are on the increase again, there may be calls to amend law 62.
> 
> In the meantime you must give your tenant 90 days notice of an increase to the rental during which time if the tenant does not feel the increase is fair, then they have the right to take the dispute to the rent tribunal for a decision.
> 
> My advice is keep it fair and you won't have a problem, try and hike it and you will have grief.



^^ Has law 62 been amended at all at the current time?


----------



## Bashar-Samad

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...3&set=pcb.10152708197045403&type=1&permPage=1


----------



## Chipmunk

Dubai_Steve said:


> It still does not work and it is not a suitable system anyway, no wonder people are ignoring it!



Try changing the date to tomorrow and I'm sure it will work.

Besides, I emailed to ask them when they plan to update the index as the prices seem to reflect last year. This was their reply:

"The rental increase calculator is under updating for contract which is expire after April so the new rental index will be release on end of April and rental calculator will be update in the same day."


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Tried that, it just crashes the server with a Visual Basic error.


----------



## Chipmunk

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ Tried that, it just crashes the server with a Visual Basic error.


Hmmm. Seems to work fine for me.


----------



## PrincessTower

the location is actually not that bad. apart from it being in second row, it is very close to the marina walkways, marina mall, Carrefour supermarket, metro and tram, and bridge to the beach as well as JBR walk. units here should rent pretty easily.

I don't see why you would spend that much off plan though when there is better choices readily available at better prices.

construction quality I can't judge, but I've lived in a select building and it was pathetic and I decided to move out after only a couple of months.


----------



## DennyCrane

PrincessTower said:


> the location is actually not that bad. apart from it being in second row, it is very close to the marina walkways, marina mall, Carrefour supermarket, metro and tram, and bridge to the beach as well as JBR walk. units here should rent pretty easily.
> 
> I don't see why you would spend that much off plan though when there is better choices readily available at better prices.
> 
> construction quality I can't judge, but I've lived in a select building and it was pathetic and I decided to move out after only a couple of months.


Well let us assure you PT construction quality is still pathetic and Select will bury their heads in the sand if you have any issues with your unit :bash:


----------



## unknownpleasures

So this is open to every tom dick and harry...lol


----------



## cguria




----------



## cguria

The plot smack in the center is for sale.


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slEjEkhovHg&feature=player_embedded

This could be one too!!


----------



## cguria

The two are incomparable


----------



## SagarDubai

Hi Friend, 
T-800 thanks for the long note regarding ADCB-DEC-Investors swap proposal and how they want people to move to L4. I personally feel that all those people who are stuck in projects that will probably will not see any light, I advise them to move to L4 ASAP. IT will be good for all. Bargain with DEC, negotiate with the bank, try to swap to L4. You have a chance. This way atleast you will get an apartment which will be an asset rather that waiting forever for DEC to complete those projects or wait for the court to take a decision. Rents and Prices are fast moving up. This is a 2nd opportunity for you to swap!!!

For people who do not want to swap, I suggest that file a case against DEC for recovery of your amount. Pls dont site quite. This is th only way you can get ur money and teach them a lesson.


----------



## alexandershepherd

*Any update?*

Has anyone got any update on what's happened to Royal Estates? Has anyone managed to get any money back?

Alex


----------



## dave83

*The Reality of Dubai*

I've been monitoring Dubizzle and the Better Homes website *daily* for 2 months and two things are pretty apparent.

1) there's significantly more supply than demand for rental properties in Dubai generally, even in Dubai Marina. I have seen people listing the same studios in decent buildings for weeks at reasonable prices (and I'm not talking about duplicate ads but ads from reputable agencies)

For example, I priced my property in Dubai Marina at 55k and it took 1 month to let for 50k, with 4 brokers marketing it and me being extremely hands on, seeking updates every 3 days. *Asking* prices for studios in that building started from 55k and went upto 65k, so my studio was the LOWEST priced apartment in the building and still it took 1 month to let out. Better Homes has acknowledged that they are sitting on a huge inventory of low/mid-range buildings for rent without takers. Right now on Dubizzle, for studios alone, there's 350+ ads for Dubai Marina and JLT each - even if we assume each ad is listed 4 times, that's still about 90 ads in EACH location. In International City. there's 1000+ ads for studios!!

2) Many properties are priced at way above the market and have not had any tenants signing up in 1 month+ - nevertheless, as I learnt, even reasonably priced properties are not that easy to rent out, which reaffirms the above point. Most of these "research reports" that cite great demand are working off asking prices to calculate that prices have increased by 10-15% in 3 months, which is a highly inaccurate way of measuring reality on the ground - especially in a unmatured market like Dubai where delusional expectations don't match up to demand on the ground.


----------



## speculator

^^^^
Its all about location & flight to quality now. Anything sub standard will struggle Dubai or not Doobuy.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai sells 32 properties per hour in Q1*

The first quarter of 2013 recorded an impressive high in terms of property deals in Dubai as the emirate registered 32 transactions per hour during the first three months of the year, according to the Land Department.

The number of transactions carried out in the sector totalled 14,260, which indicates 223 deals per day and 32 per hour, director general of the Land Department Sultan Bin Mejren said in a statement.

...

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/ins...ebusiness/2013/April/uaebusiness_April498.xml


----------



## dave83

speculator said:


> ^^^^
> Its all about location & flight to quality now. Anything sub standard will struggle Dubai or not Doobuy.


That does not tell us anything about demand - it might tell us which properties may make better investments but not about the overall low demand. I would also add that this is not the case in major cities of the world, where there is in fact *real* demand such as London - almost every property lets quickly - this is principally a matter of Dubai - a land where endless supply of all types in all areas can be created to cater to any demand. I thus find it quite weird when people compare central London or Hong Kong properties to Marina. These places have high local demand generated by locals, they're not just fly by night cities. 

Dubai_Steve: yes, but I'm talking about renting properties, not selling or buying.


----------



## Josau

dave83 said:


> I
> For example, I priced my property in Dubai Marina at 55k and it took 1 month to let for 50k, with 4 brokers marketing it and me being extremely hands on, seeking updates every 3 days. *Asking* prices for studios in that building started from 55k and went upto 65k, so my studio was the LOWEST priced apartment in the building and still it took 1 month to let out. Better Homes has acknowledged that they are sitting on a huge inventory of low/mid-range buildings for rent without takers.


^^
I believe to know, what building you are referring to.
Let me tell you, that my studio in that same building hasn't been empty for longer than a week since 2008. I just rented for 60,000 dhs/year again and a friend of mine 3 days ago for 55,000dhs/year. Her studio has been on the market for 3 days.
What I am saying is, there are many experiences even in the same building.
It seems to be essential to have the right Real Estate agent, and to list your property with only one agent (the right one of course). If you list with several agents, none of them feels responsible and no one will push for your property.


----------



## dave83

That you let it out for 60k and your friend for 55k in 3 days seems great: you've been lucky to be beating the market (as there are at least 3 studios available right now at 50k asking). Even the RERA index put the highest end of studios at Marina at 60k. 

Don't get me wrong: It is a fantastic building. I'm not even complaining about the price; it is the vacancy period that bothered me but perhaps, as you allude to, this was due to using an incompetent broker initially. 

However, the point I am generally making is that tenants have NUMEROUS options to choose from; there is no shortage of supply in the Marina or elsewhere; it makes me skeptical about the GENERAL level of demand in Dubai vs the supply of properties, and hence the long term viability of investment.


----------



## unknownpleasures

http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/editorial/keep-dubai-home-prices-from-soaring-away



> And yet the mistakes from the last bubble continue to rear their heads. Different price-measurement tools show that Dubai villa prices rose by 18 to 24 per cent in the past year. This time, unlike in 2008, investment money from countries nearby is adding fuel to the frenzy.
> 
> And there is evidence that the increase is fuelled by speculation, as in 2008, and not by healthy growth. As The National's Gregor Stuart Hunter reported yesterday, the rowdy crowd at Saturday's Emaar sale of 188 off-plan units at Arabian Ranches was not made up solely of people eager to live near Global Village. Many of the purchasers were speculators, paying cash, and some were offering their precious tokens - symbolising the opportunity to buy - on the classified website Dubizzle within hours, at markups reaching 30 per cent.


----------



## Green Hornet

Can someone please tell me is it true you need to give a tenant a years notice if you want him to vacate your unit?
If this is true and the tenant has only 6 months then surely the landlord would only have to give 6 months aswell?

Can you also refuse to give another 6 month contract stating you will only renew for a year hoping the tenant won't renew.I want to get rid of him as he's getting the unit too cheap and a 5% increase is peanuts.

Thanks for any replies.


----------



## dave83

Green Hornet said:


> Can someone please tell me is it true you need to give a tenant a years notice if you want him to vacate your unit?
> If this is true and the tenant has only 6 months then surely the landlord would only have to give 6 months aswell?
> 
> Can you also refuse to give another 6 month contract stating you will only renew for a year hoping the tenant won't renew.I want to get rid of him as he's getting the unit too cheap and a 5% increase is peanuts.
> 
> Thanks for any replies.


I was told about the 365 days notice - that it is a RERA rule - by the agent when I rented my apartment - so I (think if I remember correctly) I made the tenant sign a letter that I have given him 365 days notice that I want to sell the property. I don't know how that would work in practice since does that mean I still can't sell the property until the end of the 1 year lease? I don't know.


----------



## Green Hornet

You can sell the property with the tenant to an investor for example.

Its easier to sell it empty I would think so if you find a buyer who wants the unit empty you could
try offering the tenant a financial incentive to leave.For example part of his rent money back.


----------



## MarkWass

*Nothing 'tangible' has come from RERA - top lawyer*

http://m.arabianbusiness.com/nothing-tangible-has-come-from-rera-top-lawyer-498975.html


Top UAE lawyer Dr Habib Al Mulla has accused real estate watchdog RERA of dragging its heels on the formation of a real estate law in the country...


----------



## unknownpleasures

Rob Timpie said:


>


^^^When were these taken Rob ? Cavendish Maxwell posted some in Feb? Can you please provide a date for these ..thanks :cheers:

here's one taken on 28/2/13 Here's one http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/443/sam1486g.jpg

It appears there's an extra floor in the ones you posted.


----------



## IDOLS

*Dream Tower Under Construction- Dubai Marina*

Hi there,

I'm new to the forum, and am looking for some assistance (have checked the forums but can't find my answer).

I've seen Dream Tower is under construction on Al Sufuoh Rd, next to Trident Grand and where the KPM Tower is supposed to be.

I can't find out any information on who to speak to about buying off plan / re-sale anywhere. The board says it is a EMAAR development, but having spoken to them they haven't heard of it.

Any ideas on where I can learn more and find out when it is due for completion and who the real estate agent for re-sales may be?

thanks a lot,


----------



## Chipmunk

The RERA rent index seems to have been updated today with prices more reflective of the current market.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Throwing this question out there for discussion.

What would be the best investment now for an outlay of AED 1.1m with regards to maximum rental income and a good asset to have for the next 10 years?


----------



## uk-dubai

Dubai_Steve said:


> Throwing this question out there for discussion.
> 
> What would be the best investment now for an outlay of AED 1.1m with regards to maximum rental income and a good asset to have for the next 10 years?


Its becoming very difficult getting anything for this price, my budget is 1.2 m, been looking for a while, was interested in 1 bed in Zumurud because of the location, facilities and excellent maintenance but no luck so far, I think we back to 2008 when you see advertised property say for 1.2 m , by the time you call the agent they would say the owner wants more...


----------



## Docmo1

kitayabi said:


> Good luck Docmo, ive been looking in to this project as a possible investment but will not go any further until I see more activity on the site.


You're wise to wait...


----------



## flinthut

42nd floor is completed. I passed by the building and have noticed that they have added a second crane...which is a good news. Possibly they are trying to speed up the process.

On the oder hand, I have not received any more invoices. Up to-date, I have paid 80% already.


----------



## TerryPop

uk-dubai said:


> Its becoming very difficult getting anything for this price, my budget is 1.2 m, been looking for a while, was interested in 1 bed in Zumurud because of the location, facilities and excellent maintenance but no luck so far, I think we back to 2008 when you see advertised property say for 1.2 m , by the time you call the agent they would say the owner wants more...


Residential:

2 x 1 beds in Discovery gardens (if you can find them in that budget)

There is some yield uplift coming from two angles:

1. rising rents (they are into the 50-60,000 aed pa range now)
2. 40% reduction in Service charges*

(*Cooling charges are soon to go onto tenant account with the intro of private PDC metres- all tenancy contracts now state tenant will take on these charges when metres are installed)

So you could end up with an 8-10 percent net yield.


TP


----------



## UAE Investor

TerryPop said:


> The point is, the Robin Hood policy of rent caps is not helping tenants or Dubai.
> 
> Tenants should be given a years notice to vacate (out of respect for fellow human beings), but thats where it ends.
> 
> 
> No rent increases, no property value increases, no new projects justified, no new areas created, no new businesses in those new areas set up, no new jobs b/c no new businesses, no jobs for tenants- tenants end up unemployed anyway.
> 
> *Want Dubai to grow, to flourish? want to see Dubai land happen?*
> 
> then....
> 
> 
> *LET RENTS INCREASE AS MUCH AS THE MARKET DICTATES *


Rents are crazy in Dubai....


----------



## TerryPop

UAE Investor said:


> Rents are crazy in Dubai....


The rental price is dictated by demand. 

*It is the tenant who increases rents in any market not the landlord.*


Increasing rents are good for everyone. Other areas will finally start to flourish in Dubai.

Let it happen.


----------



## Richard Head

TerryPop said:


> The rental price is dictated by demand.
> 
> *It is the tenant who increases rents in any market not the landlord.*
> 
> 
> Increasing rents are good for everyone. Other areas will finally start to flourish in Dubai.
> 
> Let it happen.


Yeah it's nonsense. The rental rates of vacant properties are rising rapidly and that's what reflects the true supply / demand equation. A free market would be far better for the long term growth of Dubai. Crazy property rental rates don't seem to have done Hong Kong, New York or Singapore any harm in the long term. :bash:


----------



## UAE Investor

TerryPop said:


> Increasing rents are good for everyone.
> Let it happen.


You mean good for land lords....thats not every body

i want to rent my house out 3200 sq ft to rent half size in decent place in Dubai

uk rent £20,000 PA(top location in Wirral)

can,t get even a town house in DSC for less than £35k

bonkers
:bash:


----------



## TerryPop

UAE Investor said:


> You mean good for land lords....thats not every body
> 
> i want to rent my house out 3200 sq ft to rent half size in decent place in Dubai
> 
> uk rent £20,000 PA(top location in Wirral)
> 
> can,t get even a town house in DSC for less than £35k
> 
> bonkers
> :bash:


Increasing rents may very well be creating the job (or sustaining it) that brings you here.

Rental increases are creating new areas, new business and new Jobs.


----------



## chefdude

agod said:


> Yes thats about right.
> 
> you have to give 3 months notice of a rent increase, before the end of the Tenancy, the guide to this increase is RERA's Rent Index for Dubai Marina, the Tenant can go to the Rental Tribunial if it is unfair, Rera has decreed that you cannot increase the rent in the first and second years, and you must honour the original contract.
> 
> If you wish for the Tenant to vacate the property, you must give a years notice, and you must show that you want it for your own use.
> 
> thats my understanding of it.
> 
> Al.


Agod you will be pleased to hear that information is out of date, a Landlord may raise the rent of the property even at the end of the first year if the markets have increased and you are entitled to do so.

Law No. 33 of 2008 

This law is intended to amend the provisions of Law No. 26 of 2007, which regulates the relationships between landlords and tenants in the emirate of Dubai. Below are the most relevant amendments enacted by Law 33 of 2008.

Article 9 of the law previously contained a two year protection against any increase in rent for the first two years of the tenancy; the amending law removes this protection. This means that rent increases can take place every year, in accordance with the 2009 rent cap and the index of rental values. 

http://www.bhomes.com/uae/dubai-law.xhtml


----------



## Akasha

So went in this morning! All looks pretty good. Mainly the only issues are grouting and seals need redoing as there are gaps and a few cracks around the tops of door frames. They haven't done the final paint yet.

I was actually surprised at how big my 'little' apartment actually is and love the fact it has a semi-closed, bar style kitchen. Also apparently now the 2 projects that would have obstructed the view have now been cancelled, so they're filling in the holes, so now a great view of the golf course and Victory Heights.

The Civil Defence were in this morning doing the final checks and they're hoping to get the BCC certificate by June 26th.

Apologies I'm not sure how to upload photos here, but I've put some in a FB page which I've made public so you can take a look: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151635521195399.1073741826.739195398&type=3


----------



## TerryPop

UAE Investor said:


> You mean good for land lords....thats not every body
> 
> i want to rent my house out 3200 sq ft to rent half size in decent place in Dubai
> 
> uk rent £20,000 PA(top location in Wirral)
> 
> can,t get even a town house in DSC for less than £35k
> 
> bonkers
> :bash:




On a budget of 115,000aed per annum (under £20,000 p.a.) you can get a 3 bedroom townhouse in JVC over 3,000ft2- link

*You totally support the argument that increasing rents help Dubai, and is good for both tenant and landlord alike*

In this example as people priced out of existing communities relocate - places like Jumeirah Village Circle begin to blossom. 

As JVC fills up businesses begin to open and more jobs are created directly and indirectly.


----------



## basheer.mohammad

Akasha said:


> So went in this morning! All looks pretty good. Mainly the only issues are grouting and seals need redoing as there are gaps and a few cracks around the tops of door frames. They haven't done the final paint yet.
> 
> I was actually surprised at how big my 'little' apartment actually is and love the fact it has a semi-closed, bar style kitchen. Also apparently now the 2 projects that would have obstructed the view have now been cancelled, so they're filling in the holes, so now a great view of the golf course and Victory Heights.
> 
> The Civil Defence were in this morning doing the final checks and they're hoping to get the BCC certificate by June 26th.
> 
> Apologies I'm not sure how to upload photos here, but I've put some in a FB page which I've made public so you can take a look: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151635521195399.1073741826.739195398&type=3


That's great news. Congratulations on your new apartment.

Looks like you don't have any complaints and it should hold true for us too.

All the best.


----------



## ryeman




----------



## unknownpleasures

Akasha said:


> So went in this morning! All looks pretty good. Mainly the only issues are grouting and seals need redoing as there are gaps and a few cracks around the tops of door frames. They haven't done the final paint yet.
> 
> I was actually surprised at how big my 'little' apartment actually is and love the fact it has a semi-closed, bar style kitchen. Also apparently now the 2 projects that would have obstructed the view have now been cancelled, so they're filling in the holes, so now a great view of the golf course and Victory Heights.
> 
> The Civil Defence were in this morning doing the final checks and they're hoping to get the BCC certificate by June 26th.
> 
> Apologies I'm not sure how to upload photos here, but I've put some in a FB page which I've made public so you can take a look: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151635521195399.1073741826.739195398&type=3


Which two projects were cancelled?


----------



## True Blue

chefdude said:


> Agod you will be pleased to hear that information is out of date, a Landlord may raise the rent of the property even at the end of the first year if the markets have increased and you are entitled to do so.
> 
> Law No. 33 of 2008
> 
> This law is intended to amend the provisions of Law No. 26 of 2007, which regulates the relationships between landlords and tenants in the emirate of Dubai. Below are the most relevant amendments enacted by Law 33 of 2008.
> 
> Article 9 of the law previously contained a two year protection against any increase in rent for the first two years of the tenancy; the amending law removes this protection. This means that rent increases can take place every year, in accordance with the 2009 rent cap and the index of rental values.
> 
> http://www.bhomes.com/uae/dubai-law.xhtml


The problem is that very few apartments see 25%+ increase after the first year. Large apartments will struggle to increase rents under the index system whereas small apartments will exploit the fact that they remain below the average.

They updated the index a few years back and had an apartment category called a 1.5 bed. That was relevant to 1 bed units with 2 bathrooms and a minimum area of 1000ft. They removed it! Why? The rental index does not take into account the available parking. A second parking space can be worth 10,000AED extra per year. Maybe the trick is to keep parking outside of the tenancy contract and show it as an extra.

In summary the rent index is unfair and does not take into account lots of factors that affect real world values.


----------



## Akasha

Really? That's your only question?! Don't know, didn't ask.


----------



## mca27

Akasha said:


> Really? That's your only question?! Don't know, didn't ask.


what are the service fees on this project? have they been announced yet?

also when will the canal be done?


----------



## Akasha

They said the canal 'might' have water in at the end of the year - wouldn't bet on it though.

I honestly can't remember the service fee amounts, but was told my apartment size - approx 840 sq ft would be like 14,000 dhs - and it's in 4 cheques, BUT they want SIX months up front as a deposit!!!! Yikes!!!!


----------



## jprp

Hello everyone! Just wanted to ask if anyone has a contact for car washing service within jp? We had a really nice guy who would wash the cars three times a week in our last community but we have lost his number! Anyone thinking of extending yes def go to nakheel for approvals to avoid their fines! Yes cost per SQ ft is totally nuts!


----------



## mca27

Akasha said:


> They said the canal 'might' have water in at the end of the year - wouldn't bet on it though.
> 
> I honestly can't remember the service fee amounts, but was told my apartment size - approx 840 sq ft would be like 14,000 dhs - and it's in 4 cheques, BUT they want SIX months up front as a deposit!!!! Yikes!!!!


thats quite high. no doubt it would be even higher once the canal is done?

are there still apartments for sale from the developer or just on the secondary market? what is the current market rate AED per square foot?


----------



## chefdude

Agreed True Blue it needs abolishing as it is too complicated to make itself realistic and the within 25% of the average figure is completely unrealistic.

I once did some calculations and found it could only work properly if you made it within 10% of the average figure. Although this makes no allowances for the actual things that reflect a property price such as.

1. Location
2. Quality of the building
3. Well maintained
4. Desirability and demand
5. Availability
6. Furnished / Unfurnished
7. No of cheques
8. Units actual physical worth
9. Size of unit (how can you compare 1 bed 650 sq ft vs 1,000 sq ft?)


----------



## Akasha

mca27 said:


> thats quite high. no doubt it would be even higher once the canal is done?
> 
> are there still apartments for sale from the developer or just on the secondary market? what is the current market rate AED per square foot?


Honestly I have no idea. You do see some advertised on the secondary market and now the project is close to completion, I suspect you'll see more. 

I would think that if you bought from the developer - they seem to still advertise them on their website - that you'd pay top dollar for them.

I do know of quite a few people who were forced to walk away from their apartments, due to it taking so long. What happens to those, I really have no idea.


----------



## mca27

Akasha said:


> Honestly I have no idea. You do see some advertised on the secondary market and now the project is close to completion, I suspect you'll see more.
> 
> I would think that if you bought from the developer - they seem to still advertise them on their website - that you'd pay top dollar for them.
> 
> I do know of quite a few people who were forced to walk away from their apartments, due to it taking so long. What happens to those, I really have no idea.


thanks


----------



## MarkWass

Mistermark said:


> Welcome back, Scooby.
> 
> Are you able to provide any evidence of having secured actual, money-in-a-bank-account refunds for ex-pat investors (ie people other than Emiratis and GCC nationals)?


As others have hinted: the prob is not just Select. Many are still at 'it', whether their product is completed, U/C or unstarted as is the case of much of New Dubai.

As said before, the only rational solution is to start thinking longer term, and actually considering making a long overdue start at some very basic regulation of all market players?

For those who still think along the lines of 'this is an immature market', (so criminality is acceptable)...

Sorry, but that is surely no longer acceptable?


----------



## Akasha

If anyone has a mortgage through Dubai Bank now EIB - have you heard from them at all? Heard zip. No answer to email either.


----------



## Pro Bono

Mistermark said:


> Welcome back, Scooby.
> 
> Are you able to provide any evidence of having secured actual, money-in-a-bank-account refunds for ex-pat investors (ie people other than Emiratis and GCC nationals)?


*Mistermark* - Yes we can provide details of funds transferred by Select Group regarding previous successful arbitration cases.

If you are interested to receive a full and detailed summary of a recent case win against Select then simply PM a valid e-mail address to us and once the case is made public by the Dubai courts we will be e-mailing a 100+ page document showing all the dirty tricks that Aslam and his friends have tried to pull on investors.

We currently have 100+ investors subscribed to receive the document and contact requests from the UK and UAE media.

Within the case details is proof that Select knew the sizes of all apartments sold at the time of the contracts and were undersized by 15% -20%. Force Majeure is invalid and based upon complete fantasy. Addendums are illegal under UAE law and withholding handover is effectively bribery, which we believe is punishable by imprisonment in the UAE if prosecuted in the criminal courts.

*Dubai Steve* - your delivered unit size as per SPA is at least 10% short of what has been delivered to you FACT. The DLD sizes are also wrong so you will be overpaying on services charges for the rest of your life FACT as declared by Select in writing.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Pro Bono said:


> *Dubai Steve* - your delivered unit size as per SPA is at least 10% short of what has been delivered to you FACT. The DLD sizes are also wrong so you will be overpaying on services charges for the rest of your life FACT as declared by Select in writing.


Can you let me know how you calculated that 'fact'? The original signed SPA says 111 sq.m apartment area + 8 sq.m balcony = 119 sq.m (1280.9 ft2) total.

The size entered in the title deeds is 1258.4 ft2. A difference of 1.7%

Who does the size measurements for entering to the title deeds and what method do they use?


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> I doubt they will win the fight against Cayan without legal arbitration etc. As I said, a problem with all developers.
> 
> 
> 
> Not very nice of Cayan to add an addendum to a contract after it was signed to protect themselves from paying any compensation is it.
> 
> You need help Mr Cayan Arse-Chic


You are clearly not very intelligent. The 10% size variation clause was included in the original SPA which both parties signed to legally effect the sale agreement. So explain to us all how that constitutes an addendum?

Everyone can see that you just spend your time making trouble on this forum and defending Select. You obviously have no shame as Select have ruined many hundreds of people lives. I also know of a case where the stress became so much that someone actually died waiting for their apartment while struggling to make payments for something that was 3 years late. 

I wonder how many wanted to die when they saw the 5 star shit holes that were eventually delivered?


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Can you let me know how you calculated that 'fact'? The original signed SPA says 111 sq.m apartment area + 8 sq.m balcony = 119 sq.m (1280.9 ft2) total.
> 
> The size entered in the title deeds is 1258.4 ft2. A difference of 1.7%
> 
> Who does the size measurements for entering to the title deeds and what method do they use?


The difference will be minus 1.7%. Do you know of ANY cases at all where Select have sold an apartment that turned out larger than the SPA stated size (not including the car park space)? I am guessing all of the errors were in Select's favour, rather suspicious!

Keep defending them Fly Boy.


----------



## TerryPop

UAE Investor said:


> Bottom line is ...demand is false !
> 
> Moth Balling completed units, creating pent up demand and false cieling prices...surely this is,nt they way,other countries work ?



Bottom line is Net rental yield can be your best indicator of whether there is a bubble or not.

Net rental yields (achievable) indicate what the value of a property is or can be.


Just got to watch out for a bubble in rents, which can (and did) happen :lol:


----------



## iasndwygd

in my opinion it has become too much and a lot of double threads have been created.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JuZTxlM0ek


----------



## TerryPop

*Good examples:*

*JLT*

Just before the collapse - people were buying offices in JLT at around 2000 aed per square foot.

This was because the rents being achieved were in the region of 225 aed per square foot.

What was not factored in was a collapse in rents.

Today rental rates are at around 100 aed per square foot.

*Viceroy on the palm*

A quick look on propertyfinder.ae shows an average cost per square foot for the viceroy on palm jumeirah of aed 2,458 per square foot link

Investors must believe that rents for these units will be at around 150-180 aed per square foot by the time it is built.

This would net a 6 percent yield- which seems to be the acceptable rate in residential.

So if you see a 2 bed apartment renting at approx 400,000 aed per year in 2016 or whenever it gets built you can make an investment call.


*Rents are great at indicating value if you can navigate whether they are stable or not.*


----------



## TerryPop

*Finally*

We got offers continuously to sell throughout the collpase in 2009 and onwards.

These have continued to come in almost daily- so we have always had the option to sell basically.

The offers are all loosely based on the rental rates our units can (or do) achieve- and have increased as rental rates have increased.

Thats why as investors rental rates really should be your 'eyes' when navigating Dubai property.

This also means investigating demand, population growth, potential competition from new developments and of course affordability (salary growth) should be part of the process before buying.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> I am guessing all of the errors were in Select's favour, rather suspicious!
> 
> Keep defending them Fly Boy.


I am asking for the FACTS of the case not guesses.

My question was "Who does the size measurements for entering to the title deeds and what method do they use?"


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> You are clearly not very intelligent. The 10% size variation clause was included in the original SPA which both parties signed to legally effect the sale agreement. So explain to us all how that constitutes an addendum?


You only said "they pre warned everyone by *inserting *a variation clause of 10%".

When you said "inserting" I assumed that meant a change to the original SPA.

I notice on the Sileverne thread that several people were surprised to learn about the unusually excessive 10% variation clause after delivery and also some finding their units delivered over 10% less than that detailed in the spec! 

Shame that Cayan did not refund the 10% or more to all buyers if they knew and admitted that the size would be different to what was paid for isn't it!

Seems like you are rather biased I would say.

I am all for justice being done (especially for late delivery cases) but lets make sure it is across the board and that we are dealing with facts so that laws can be implemented in Dubai and changed across the board for the good of the UAE and investment as a whole.


----------



## jp resident

*Keys handover package 4*

Anyone from package 4 received their keys ? We have and wondered when people would start moving in.


----------



## dave83

TerryPop said:


> *Finally*
> 
> We got offers continuously to sell throughout the collpase in 2009 and onwards.
> 
> These have continued to come in almost daily- so we have always had the option to sell basically.
> 
> The offers are all loosely based on the rental rates our units can (or do) achieve- and have increased as rental rates have increased.
> 
> Thats why as investors rental rates really should be your 'eyes' when navigating Dubai property.
> 
> This also means investigating demand, population growth, potential competition from new developments and of course affordability (salary growth) should be part of the process before buying.


Actually, yield was not on people's mind in 2008. Rather, the real motivations for most of the people (including myself) speculating in the 2008 bubble was quick capital appreciation - not yield - most people were not interested in that long term picture. They were putting down 10% down-payment and flipping in 2-3 months. Only people who think long-term look at yields and Dubai is not full of such people, or was not back then.

Further, I disagree that rents rising directly in line with capital values is a good sign. Rents should not be rising at the same rate the capital value of the property is rising considering the fact that there is NO SHORTAGE in Dubai. 5% net is a pretty average yield globally.

In London, which is a good market with a histoy, while property prices rose only slightly, rents increased a good 20-25% in the past 5 years - that's normal. 20-25% in a year is not

Personally, if I see that capital values are increasing in Dubai but the yield is still sticking to 5-6, or even falling, that means the Dubai market is maturing and will continue to grow. However in Dubai, if rents suddenly start increasing 20-30% a year, that is the sign of a still volatile and under developed market.


----------



## MarkWass

^^ You give London as an example. Historical average house prices in London can be found at http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/house-prices-and-sales/search-the-index 

Ranges between £92,065 in Jan 1995 to £374,568 in Mar 2013, with a dip in 2008.

In 18 years, average London house (inc flats etc) prices have more than quadrupled.

In the same time period, average rental levels in London have (much, much) less than doubled, rental yields down.

Am not sure how much can be read into just looking at landlords rental yields on their own as an indicator for future market direction of capital values? There are far too many other factors to consider.


----------



## TerryPop

^^ cheers to both of you.

I always used net yields as an indicator of value in Dubai, and I have been looking for counter arguments to this approach.

I know there are a whole load of other factors to consider but when Dubai property yields start looking within London range, I'd be tempted to pick London for my investments.

It also happens that when we received offers on property (from high end stuff to lower end units) they always seemed to be in line with the going rental yield- thats just an observation.

The flippers were brought or lured in at inflated prices on low deposits and long payment terms- I totally agree with you.

I just wonder in Dubai what other factors could force up capital values if not rental yield?


----------



## MarkWass

^^ One (major) factor that could encourage stability, secure growth and increased credibility would be if there was a larger proportion of owner occupiers.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Pro Bono said:


> *Mistermark* - Yes we can provide details of funds transferred by Select Group regarding previous successful arbitration cases.
> 
> If you are interested to receive a full and detailed summary of a recent case win against Select then simply PM a valid e-mail address to us and once the case is made public by the Dubai courts we will be e-mailing a 100+ page document showing all the dirty tricks that Aslam and his friends have tried to pull on investors.
> 
> We currently have 100+ investors subscribed to receive the document and contact requests from the UK and UAE media.
> 
> Within the case details is proof that Select knew the sizes of all apartments sold at the time of the contracts and were undersized by 15% -20%. Force Majeure is invalid and based upon complete fantasy. Addendums are illegal under UAE law and withholding handover is effectively bribery, which we believe is punishable by imprisonment in the UAE if prosecuted in the criminal courts.
> 
> ^^^^^^
> Can you just PM the information of who these lawyers and media are as not all are involved with Select as other developers have ripped people off and it would be encouraging to let them know if they could get some answers as to what has occurred?


----------



## TerryPop

dave83 said:


> Further, I disagree that rents rising directly in line with capital values is a good sign.....


Actually Dave83 I have to say, that myself and other investors I mix with (who have been buying in the last six months) have been basing our investment decision solely on rental yield or the potential of a boost to future rental yield.

This could be car parking spaces in JLT which are now becoming hard to come by, a shopping mall being built within the vicinity of a development (like marina residences on the palm) or a reduction in service charges due. (in terms of things that could boost rental yield that is).

We have factored in the usual risk variables (Iran, emerging market volatility etc etc) but in general if the yield looks good we buy.

So if rents go up we pay more- as in it is RENTS rising and capital values following- not the other way round- as your post seems to suggest.

Is that a bad thing?


----------



## dave83

TerryPop said:


> Actually Dave83 I have to say, that myself and other investors I mix with (who have been buying in the last six months) have been basing our investment decision solely on rental yield or the potential of a boost to future rental yield.
> 
> This could be car parking spaces in JLT which are now becoming hard to come by, a shopping mall being built within the vicinity of a development (like marina residences on the palm) or a reduction in service charges due. (in terms of things that could boost rental yield that is).
> 
> We have factored in the usual risk variables (Iran, emerging market volatility etc etc) but in general if the yield looks good we buy.
> 
> So if rents go up we pay more- as in it is RENTS rising and capital values following- not the other way round- as your post seems to suggest.
> 
> Is that a bad thing?


I'm agreeing with you fully. What I am saying is, in terms of technical analysis, what we always tended to see in conventional markets is that when capital values started growing up and investment started coming in, we saw "yield compression", to use the technical term. Technically, what this means is, as an example:

100 k property yield 7000 rent = 7% yield
It rises 5000 pounds, which attracts even more investment until that property rises to about 140-150k. That yield becomes 5% instead of 7% which is usually a standard ballpark yield one tends to expect from rental property. Rents shouldn't be increasing at the same level as capital values.

On the other hand, if that property becomes 200,000 (which does happen) and the yield then becomes 3% it's the perfect sign of a bubble - and this is what exactly happened in London and other places in 2008.

As the other poster illustrated, while prices quadrupled in London, rents hardly doubled. And that would suggest the "yield compressed".

Now moving on to Dubai: I, like you, have bought a property in Dubai based on rental yield and others are too until now, this time round. My point is that in conventional mature markets, and if Dubai is one, we should see yield compression.

If we aren't seeing that, and conversely we are seeing rents rising along with capital values then that is a sign of a bubble developing. Again, rising rents is not a problem but considering that there is oversupply and the Arabs can keep on building 10 new Marinas and that city and this city, if rents are rising we should be asking ourselves why.


----------



## shah100

Hi

Hurry up and negotiate on the price. Construction cost going up they wont offer you discount. They will ask you strictly full purchase price money on rera payment plan.

Developer wont offer you any refund in case you do not want to continue. They will confiscate your money and sell ur unit on higer price.

Or you can privately find a buyer.

Regards

Shah


----------



## unknownpleasures

^^Investing in property has always been a safe mode of investment as it is not the stock market or placing a bet on horses where you can no doubt lose big time and is a gamble but property should never have been a problem as it has been in Dubai because it was hailed to be a safe haven for investment. 

As for DSC it's the off plans I'm making reference to, anything that is completed then perhaps one day the rental market may improve. People certainly did get burnt something totally unexpected because it wasn't just one developer but many who went down the path of ripping people off, claiming falsely progress was occurring and were collecting monies from unsuspecting investors who were led to believe that all was going well since many are not expats and do not reside in Dubai! One can understand a rogue developer, but in the Dubai property market it was many and they certainly got away with it (even when registered with RERA) and the ones supposedly there to protect (RERA) go along with it because there are no investigations into the scams where as other civilised countries will do something even if they expose it by media. The only ones exposing it are the ones affected which is rare and far between as most cannot get in touch with other people due to language or otherwise so they believe they are on their own in this.

As the video indicates the DSC investors of which these are only a handful as there are so many projects affected by this swindle, RERA refuse to communicate with the investors so their complaint system is pure fallacy, they changed it so many times and did nothing to improve it. They will not even answer emails or telephone calls just the same as the developers! There is no where they indicate this also and the apparent expectation is that you require to travel there from what Tony Hynes was claiming in that video. How can people just drop their bags and travel, do they think people are made of money? This is about investors who are real people not the speculators out there trying to burst that bubble again! Accusations have been flying around a lot of the time that it's all about greed, it's not when you are only trying to plan for your future. The problem lies because the the govt doesn't want to do something about this and Dubai will have to live with the stench for years to come as no one trusts the market anymore. More and more people are speaking out and not just on here. 

People are getting sick of being ripped off and I am appalled to hear about those victims of Select also! This game of playing musical properties has to stop, how can anyone take away a property from anyone after 6 years just because one payment was late yet nothing is done about late delivery???

More of this has to be highlighted and I really hope those who were ripped off by Select Properties may pave the way for those ripped off elsewhere. 

Dave has the right idea and he won't go there again, it's not worth it.


----------



## unknownpleasures

When's the big move in day folks, I'm kinda wandering why this hasn't gone over to the completed section it's well over the topped out stage and at the snagging stage. All the rest moved quickly recently and no handover took place. No handover here also! ( For example: elite 4 went to the completed section and then new thread started back here again)??! Didn't think it needed to be at the handover stage, I'm sure I read that somewhere recently......


----------



## True Blue

TerryPop said:


> ^^ your friends studio may very well experience large rental increases over the next 36 months- maintaining (at least on paper) the chance of higher yields.
> 
> DSC may well start to ignite as rents in established areas increase, forcing existing tenants into Dubai Sports City.
> 
> The collapse was an absolute nightmare, and many people got burnt, but if rents double from todays levels- as I believe they will over the next 36 months, you will have made a very good investment..
> 
> You have to make assumptions when investing, not all of them will be right- but you have to do it.


I can't see rents doubling in the next three years. If they go up 25% that will be a bonus.

I read and hear about rent increases all the time but can't see it. My own 1 bed in Marina was re rented at 90k up from 75k. The reality of it was that it got 130k before that and I under sold it 2 years ago because I listened to the scaremongering agents. I feel it was already worth 85-90 and now I had the sense to hold out and tell agents not to accept offers. My 2 bed will be going back on the market and again I am not expecting any substantial increase. Maybe 5 or 10k on last years 120k. So where is this 20% increase that everyone is quoting? I think it is just the market settling. Gone are the days when tenants were queueing up, it takes time to find a decent tenant today.


----------



## unknownpleasures

3 years is a long time to wait in any case is it worth the trouble in an unstable property market where it's all full of flippers why would anyone even bother...did anyone get to see the mira madness, all queuing up like clowns and this sort of thing still continues when it should have been restricted long ago after what happened in 2007! Just another bubble waiting to pop! Can't believe this is still able to go on. The problem is back in 2007 none of this was being portrayed it was so concealed real investors had no idea what flipping even was. Note the comments. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Where are the emirates amongst this crowd who should have first pick, are they all standing back and watching this madness as well with disbelief? Where are all the rest from pushing their way in as if they own the place?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-NX__jdwiU&feature=player_embedded#!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvTGVm79M-0

^^^^ the use of cattle prods would have come in handy! :banana::banana:


----------



## dave83

True Blue said:


> I can't see rents doubling in the next three years. If they go up 25% that will be a bonus.
> 
> I read and hear about rent increases all the time but can't see it. My own 1 bed in Marina was re rented at 90k up from 75k. The reality of it was that it got 130k before that and I under sold it 2 years ago because I listened to the scaremongering agents. I feel it was already worth 85-90 and now I had the sense to hold out and tell agents not to accept offers. My 2 bed will be going back on the market and again I am not expecting any substantial increase. Maybe 5 or 10k on last years 120k. So where is this 20% increase that everyone is quoting? I think it is just the market settling. Gone are the days when tenants were queueing up, it takes time to find a decent tenant today.


Fully agree on the rents. In reality, my own research shows that rents have increased 10-20% depending in decent areas from the absolute bottom it hit. Maybe more in Discovery Gardens. For me, the best way to guage rents in a building is, take the absolute lowest priced comparable rental property for that area on Dubizzle or GNADS4u or propertyfinder and expect that as a maximum you will get - without significant vacancy periods. 

I would also be surprised if rents increase even 10% in the next 12 months. Look at the amount of advertised properties in each area/building! When you've got 50 studios in a relatively homogenous community/building for rent (as most properties in Dubai are) , the only thing they will be able to compete on is the number of checks or rental price - and that should maintain downward pressure on rents. The only place where I would expect to see sustainable, yet selective increases in rent is apartments walking distance to malls/transport links/excellent maintenance etc. 

I have been following specific buildings on Dubizzle on an almost daily bases for 5 months - yes! And there has been no real increase in rents although prices have increased by about 10 AT MOST% (not counting DG).

Another false statistic thrown around is price increases of 18% in 3 months: Yes, there has been an increase of 18% if you take asking prices. In my opinion, this tells us very little about what properties are actually worth. I could set ridiculous asking prices if I want - as many in Dubai tend to do, it doesn't mean anything.

All in all, I think capital values in Dubai will appreciate slowly.


----------



## dave83

unknownpleasures said:


> 3 years is a long time to wait in any case is it worth the trouble in an unstable property market where it's all full of flippers why would anyone even bother...did anyone get to see the mira madness, all queuing up like clowns and this sort of thing still continues when it should have been restricted long ago after what happened in 2007! Just another bubble waiting to pop! Can't believe this is still able to go on. The problem is back in 2007 none of this was being portrayed it was so concealed real investors had no idea what flipping even was. Note the comments. :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Where are the emirates amongst this crowd who should have first pick, are they all standing back and watching this madness as well with disbelief? Where are all the rest from pushing their way in as if they own the place?
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-NX__jdwiU&feature=player_embedded#!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvTGVm79M-0
> 
> ^^^^ the use of cattle prods would have come in handy! :banana::banana:


I think you're being very fair and injecting some realism into this discussion. When I came to buy a flat in Dubai, I was shocked at the number of apartments constructed in JLT - I only saw in JLT and Marina. Brokers kept telling me "oh they're all occupied" - rental no problem. Please buy in JLT as Marina has already appreciated. Then I visited Marina, I still thought too many apartments, but it would be easier to rent.

What I found out is NO all the apartments are not occupied and brokers will push JLT because that's where all their stock is. 

Now having said all this, I would probably not invest in DSC type areas but I would do again in an established area if I really got a net (after service charge) yield of 6.5-7% and only nominal vacancy periods - e.g. 5-10 days.

If I got those kind of yields in Bur Dubai or the "real areas" where locals can invest, I'd probably jump.


----------



## unknownpleasures

dave83 said:


> I think you're being very fair and injecting some realism into this discussion. When I came to buy a flat in Dubai, I was shocked at the number of apartments constructed in JLT - I only saw in JLT and Marina. Brokers kept telling me "oh they're all occupied" - rental no problem. Please buy in JLT as Marina has already appreciated. Then I visited Marina, I still thought too many apartments, but it would be easier to rent.
> 
> What I found out is NO all the apartments are not occupied and brokers will push JLT because that's where all their stock is.
> 
> Now having said all this, I would probably not invest in DSC type areas but I would do again in an established area if I really got a net (after service charge) yield of 6.5-7% and only nominal vacancy periods - e.g. 5-10 days.
> 
> If I got those kind of yields in Bur Dubai or the "real areas" where locals can invest, I'd probably jump.


Agree on all points above! I'm not into the hocus pocus!! Off plans are a big risk...it's over supply and the developers cannot be trusted even if they are registered ...what hope does a real investor have when RERA protects the developer and there is no protection for the investor. That's right keep away from DSC type areas...this was an area once being hailed as the best in the world (in sports) in 2007...look where it is now absolutely no where when it comes to real competitive sports - the Olympic games will never go there...it's was all made more attractive to purchase there by the agents. 

You are most definitely correct, you buy what you can see as it's not a guarantee over there if you cannot see the completed bricks and mortar staring back at you! People have learnt hard lessons and those flippers need to be hung out to dry as they are just the ones that cause the property market to burst as it did in the past, the problem is higher up can stop this, as they cannot continue to rob people - there is no trust left in Dubai anymore and whatever people claim about the market improving that's just another way of saying we got another sucker in and that's how it works over there! Buyer Beware!!!


----------



## haseeb_eng

I never faced such issue with masah. You have to ask for oqood, that's simply your right.


----------



## Rob Timpie

Towers3 said:


> Hi Rob, can you explain to other CT investors this info please. Are you in touch with other CT4 investors that have changed their payment plan please? Is it just you? Was it easy to do? Really helpful info to know please.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/518104194923742/


Before Memon stopped building CT4 (about 2 years ago), I had a monthly payment plan. I then told them I didn't want to pay as nothing was happening for a long time and I already paid more than half the amount. 
So I made them a proposition to pay per floor and they accepted it. 
I have no idea about the other investors...


----------



## Towers3

Rob Timpie said:


> Before Memon stopped building CT4 (about 2 years ago), I had a monthly payment plan. I then told them I didn't want to pay as nothing was happening for a long time and I already paid more than half the amount.
> So I made them a proposition to pay per floor and they accepted it.
> I have no idea about the other investors...


Thanks... I'll be in touch if we receive any new info and please do the same.


----------



## qronfla

Please what is agood registration?
This means the registration with Dubai Government?
This means that when pay it receive from The Government?
If some body can help me in it, because I really wish that I will have every thing good,
that later, will not have problem with Almasah.
Thank You.


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> I can't see rents doubling in the next three years. If they go up 25% that will be a bonus.
> 
> I read and hear about rent increases all the time but can't see it. My own 1 bed in Marina was re rented at 90k up from 75k. The reality of it was that it got 130k before that and I under sold it 2 years ago because I listened to the scaremongering agents. I feel it was already worth 85-90 and now I had the sense to hold out and tell agents not to accept offers. My 2 bed will be going back on the market and again I am not expecting any substantial increase. Maybe 5 or 10k on last years 120k. So where is this 20% increase that everyone is quoting? I think it is just the market settling. Gone are the days when tenants were queueing up, it takes time to find a decent tenant today.


All fair points - and only time will tell.

I am trying to work out whether the marina is one of the areas less effected by the crisis (was already pretty established) so perhaps less of a bounce back.

I have been pretty exposed to palm, jlt, jp and DG so maybe thats why the bounces have been so dramatic in our experience- palm not so much growth yet as facilities still lacking.

In terms of growth in rents or capital-easier to obtain mortgage products will be an ongoing trend, as will (hopefully) a growing population. 

I also think many Indians and Asians aspire to owning a home in Dubai so don't just see the market through British/European eyes I feel.

I am not referring to off-plan at this point and I am well aware of developers who totally abused the system (or lack of) at the expense of the hard working investor.


----------



## Akasha

Anyone 'other' than UKP


----------



## unknownpleasures

The question was to everyone else as it was not relative to the question about banks........unfortunately pinky can't help herself but to meddle in something that was not directed her way!


----------



## unknownpleasures

As dave indicated he has one at the marina and it took some 3 - 4 weeks to rent out which is not a good thing waiting so long and I believe he had to either stick it out for that length or would have required to drop the price...I think he stuck it out for that period of time without dropping in the end...for the return you get in the end it's not worth the hassle. It's over supply there also but the Marina does have a better standing in comparison to say DSC which I have mentioned before was to be hailed the best in the world, instead it's more mums and dads and kiddies playing sports like you would do in any community around the world...where are the titans they spoke about making it the best in the world. The marina can actually be seen from DSC...there are some photographs with the Marina showing in the background which does have a better skyline than DSC...not surprising since so many projects in DSC remain uncompleted or will never be built unless some rich guy takes over the whole thing and makes it happen.

I know many people don't like to speak about off plans but the reality is that people have been burnt big time and it's now slowly coming to the surface as it was taboo at one time to even talk about it.......I'm astounded to hear about Select properties doing the dirty on investors also...that's something I didn't think would happen not with this iconic building or in fact with several others they have been involved in. Not good for Dubai overall when things like this tend to surface but I'm glad it did as it exposes the property market there even more!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Rob Timpie said:


> Before Memon stopped building CT4 (about 2 years ago), I had a monthly payment plan. I then told them I didn't want to pay as nothing was happening for a long time and I already paid more than half the amount.
> So I made them a proposition to pay per floor and they accepted it.
> I have no idea about the other investors...


Hi Rob, did you know anything about any RERA based construction plan...it sounds like your proposition is the same as was being provided to other investors in other projects...don't think any of them from the other projects went along with it as it wasn't believable or a reachable target of completion as it kept being moved forward and by that stage people didn't believe them so they shot themselves in the foot by trying to enforce something they could not as no construction had started and it needed to have at least 20 percent before they could demand any payment as many had already paid a high percentage of the total price. Unfortunately the project I speak about is not the same as yours but given that Champion has delivered others it's probably okay to think they will complete this one albeit very slow. 

What floor are they up to now Rob since you began paying them per floor and where were they at prior to you going ahead with your proposition with them. If you are the only one paying them this amount then perhaps others may be doing the same as your funds could not cover each floor! Or it might be that most paid up 100 percent or close to it initially. You say you are not in contact with other investors then is it not wise to do so?


----------



## Docman

*L Cluster*

Anybody had handover from package 4A L cluster , I'm still waiting !


----------



## jp resident

who do you call for gaz ?
thanks


----------



## jp resident

we are in cluster N
got our keys end of may


----------



## Stevehelent

jp resident said:


> who do you call for gaz ?
> thanks


Hiya. We called 0508771914 - they serve Jum Park and they were here within 15min of calling - v good ...


----------



## BySmts

*350 villas in Dubai’s Jumeirah Park sold out in just five hours*

Nakheel collects Dh1.4 billion from sale of ‘Legacy Nova’ villas

With investors lining up for the past two days at its sales centre, Nakheel’s latest project - Legacy Nova villas in Jumeirah Park – was sold out in a matter of hours.

The developer said 350 Legacy Nova villas were snapped up by investors in five hours, bringing total sales to over Dh1.4 billion.

.....


----------



## Ladylike

I can't believe Nakheel are handing over "completed" villas with no water attached!!! That doesn't sound completed to me!
For those just moving in.. make sure you turn the fresh air unit off, or the electricity usage is vast!

Nearly a month in and we still can't get DU connected... On their system our villa isn't ready yet, although judging by Nakheels version of complete, I'm not surprised they think that!!

Where will the extra Legacy Nova villas be built? I hope they have factored all these extra people into the community centre and pool etc building, it's sounding like 'overcrowded' might get used a lot...


----------



## Boxter131

qronfla said:


> Please what is agood registration?
> This means the registration with Dubai Government?
> This means that when pay it receive from The Government?
> If some body can help me in it, because I really wish that I will have every thing good,
> that later, will not have problem with Almasah.
> Thank You.


http://www.propertycommunity.com/forum/dubai-property/17483-oqood-registration.html


----------



## lotfi.aloui

The demand for studios in area like Dubai Marina has a weak demand, that's why it took long for you to find a tenant. 
The property investment in Dubai has changed after the 2008 collapse, nowadays we see investors tend to purchase in hotel apartment or villas which have more stable demand whether for rent or sale.


----------



## Spurs

lotfi.aloui said:


> The demand for studios in area like Dubai Marina has a weak demand, that's why it took long for you to find a tenant.
> The property investment in Dubai has changed after the 2008 collapse, nowadays we see investors tend to purchase in hotel apartment or villas which have more stable demand whether for rent or sale.


Trying buying a studio in the marina at a decent price!


----------



## refaircargo

*Kabir Mulchandani*

He is wanted by the Indian Police and Tax Authorities for multiple criminal and economic crimes committed in India:bash:


----------



## refaircargo

*Kabir Mulchandani*

He is wanted by the Indian Police and Tax Authorities for multiple criminal and economic crimes committed in India:bash:




rohitD said:


> Kabir Mulchandani shot into the limelight in the late 90s for his innovative strategies and flamboyant personal life
> 
> 
> Bust businessman Kabir Mulchandani is back in the news. The flamboyant 30-something electronics tycoon, who shot into fame with his cut-price strategy and hectic social life, is wanted by the Income Tax department for the Rs 10 crore that he and his family owes them, Rs 6 crore of which is personally owed by Mulchandani.
> 
> The I-T investigation wing has now launched a search for the bankrupt baron who tied up with Akai and revolutionised the consumer electronic marketing with innovative strategies in the late-1990s.
> 
> Sources say that Mulchandani owes nearly Rs 6 crore to the department for the assessment year beginning '95-'96 in his personal capacity. His mother Shakun, who was also part of the company, owes another Rs 3 crore in her personal capacity for the assessment period beginning 93-94, while his brother Siddharth owes another Rs 70 lakh.
> 
> But that's not all. Mulchandani's two companies, Baron International and Baron Electronics, owe the government nearly Rs 60 crore and Rs Rs 37 crore respectively.
> 
> However, Mulchandani whose father continues to live in Mumbai, has been incommunicado. I-T officials say they have been trying to locate Kabir for some years to record his statement, but with no success. "We could not locate him. We were told that he has shifted to New Delhi and I-T officials there had also followed the trail but it did not yield any results,'' a senior official told this newspaper.
> Now, the department has attached Shakun Mulchandani's flat in West More, Pochkanwala Road, Worli which has been valued at nearly Rs 3 crore and another flat in Anand Mangal Complex, Navrangpura, Ahmedabad. Another flat in the same building, registered in Kabir Mulchandani's name, has also been attached, said sources. Both these properties are yet to be valued. The department has also attached the bank accounts of Shakun, Kabir and Siddharth.
> 
> The Mulchandani family had started its consumer electronics business in 1970s with marketing and distributing products under the Bush brand name. Bush, under the leadership of J R Mulchandani (Kabir's father) became one of the established brands in the audio cassette player market. In 1990s, the brand was wiped out after a slew of foreign names entered the market. Baron International, the brainchild of mother and son, was set-up in 1992. They tied up with Akai Electric Co, owned by the US based Semi-Tech Corporation, for marketing its CTVs and audio products in India. In 1998, Baron tied up with Akai's global competitor Aiwa (a subsidiary of Japan's Sony) for a similar marketing arrangement through a new venture, Baron Electronics. But soon, differences cropped up and Akai delinked, question marks were raised on the product and Mulchandani's business ethics and Baron was forced to exit the market.
> 
> Mumbai mirror
> 
> 
> 
> Still.... your records say he is an equal partner... WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH THIS GUY WHO HAPPENS TO BE WITH YOU??????????


----------



## cguria

Does anyone know: if you can spend 1m on 1 property and be eligible for an investor visa, can you spend 1.2m on 2 properties (say 2 1BRs in DSC) and still be eligible? Or is that 1m figure only apply to a single property?


----------



## jp resident

Ladylike ,

One month and still no DU ? I was at DU this morning to register. We are moving on monday. They told me that DU had to go and do cable connection, it would take a week..
My kids will be gutted if they dont have internet access...
Are you in package 4 ?
Also do you know how to get the air freshener disconnected ?
I turned a switch and it went into AL mode ? not sure if its disconnected now...
cant wait to move in all the same...


----------



## sicbaldi

*Water*

Hi anyone knows how to close the main water supply for the house? Just in case there is a big leak and we urgently need to close the main supply. 
I live in a 5 beds Regional.
Thanks


----------



## UAE Investor

refaircargo said:


> He is wanted by the Indian Police and Tax Authorities for multiple criminal and economic crimes committed in India:bash:


sorry...


----------



## Stevehelent

jp resident said:


> Ladylike ,
> 
> One month and still no DU ? I was at DU this morning to register. We are moving on monday. They told me that DU had to go and do cable connection, it would take a week..
> My kids will be gutted if they dont have internet access...
> Are you in package 4 ?
> Also do you know how to get the air freshener disconnected ?
> I turned a switch and it went into AL mode ? not sure if its disconnected now...
> cant wait to move in all the same...


Hi again
That's right - went to register Du and they advised 'not available for connection'. I called Nakheel and they were helpful for once and gave me a contact to email at Du (as they maintained that the villas could be connected). Du mailed me back today and said they would check the connection and revert tomorrow. I will post an update once I hear (& advise the contact person at Du if they sort it. 
Re water - We lost the first 1000 gallons in 24 hours (they think some valve was left open) so we had another 1000 gallons delivered 2 days ago - we've probably used a quarter in 2 days so estimate of around 1000 gallons a week seems about right (aed250 per 1000). I will chase Nakheel again for when the Dewa supply will start....
Good luck with the move - let me know if you have problems (like we had) and I can help...


----------



## qronfla

Hello Dear Boxter 131.
Thank You,
for your information, that you give me.
I really Glad, for your help.
Thanks.


----------



## lesyrien

*any update?*



kamooo said:


> Hey I am going to buy a studio tomorrow in 22 floor in gate 2 any advice?


Hey Kamoo, I would be interested in investing in a 1 bedroom on a payment plan.

Do you advice me to go for this tower? do you have advice to look at other tower on payment plan?

Anyone interested in selling his property?

Thanks


----------



## lesyrien

Hey Guys,

I might be interested to invest in this tower. Do you have any advices? is it worth investing in that tower? 

Is there any update?

Thanks


----------



## hawki

Hi 
I am an investor that bought into this development and also The Torch. I am very angry and disappointed with Select and would welcome any assistance as I took handover and felt blackmailed . my e mail is [email protected] many thanks


----------



## Ladylike

We had the "villa not ready for service" and after lots of calls finally got the contact in DU however he has never answered one email or phone call from us. A DU branch office contacted him on our behalf, we had the guys out who checked the connection last Thurs and they said it would be updated in the system by Saturday... Still waiting.

I'm hoping that its just the usual delay now, but the fact that once it's updated it still takes 3-5 days for an engineer to actually connect you means its starting to drag on now!

JP resident- I'm in package 5. When the AC guys came to our place we asked them to check we had switched the fresh air unit off correctly and he said we had so I suggest doing what we did... Turn the circuit breakers off!  
In our place its in the breaker box by the back/garage door, labelled F. A. U. I think (Not at home to check sorry). He advised running it every so often for an hour but I really couldn't tell you why as I didn't understand the logic, it seemed to be because "it's in the villa and therefore must serve a purpose". 
I don't agree with that as judging by the amount of extra light switches we have not everything serves a purpose!!

Stevehelten- I still can't get over your water issue. Stupid question but have you heard from Dewa themselves what the story is?
Good luck with DU, let me know if you have any luck. I think we are getting there.. But slowly!!

LL


----------



## Stevehelent

Ladylike said:


> We had the "villa not ready for service" and after lots of calls finally got the contact in DU however he has never answered one email or phone call from us. A DU branch office contacted him on our behalf, we had the guys out who checked the connection last Thurs and they said it would be updated in the system by Saturday... Still waiting.
> 
> I'm hoping that its just the usual delay now, but the fact that once it's updated it still takes 3-5 days for an engineer to actually connect you means its starting to drag on now!
> 
> JP resident- I'm in package 5. When the AC guys came to our place we asked them to check we had switched the fresh air unit off correctly and he said we had so I suggest doing what we did... Turn the circuit breakers off!
> In our place its in the breaker box by the back/garage door, labelled F. A. U. I think (Not at home to check sorry). He advised running it every so often for an hour but I really couldn't tell you why as I didn't understand the logic, it seemed to be because "it's in the villa and therefore must serve a purpose".
> I don't agree with that as judging by the amount of extra light switches we have not everything serves a purpose!!
> 
> Stevehelten- I still can't get over your water issue. Stupid question but have you heard from Dewa themselves what the story is?
> Good luck with DU, let me know if you have any luck. I think we are getting there.. But slowly!!
> 
> LL


Dewa blame Nakheel and Nakheel blame Dewa ! Dewa today said their offices would contact Nakheel to resolve. It does seem that other villas in that circle are also having no water. Dewa check next villa this morning. I suspect the whole 102 handover is disconnected. Will post again when I hear more.


----------



## Paolo777

Another 46 Four Bed Legacy Nova villas launched on Monday afternoon according to Emirates 24/7 article today.......

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/legacy-nova-villas-net-dh1-65bn-2013-06-04-1.508879

Dubai-based Nakheel sold another 46 Legacy Nova villas in Jumeirah Park on Monday afternoon, collecting a total of Dh250 million.
In the past two days, the developer has collected a total of Dh1.65 billion from sale of 396 villas.
A Nakheel spokesperson told Emirates24|7 that waterfront villas sold were priced at Dh6 million, while the average price of villas released on Sunday were in the Dh4-million plus bracket.

http://www.jumeirahparkvillasdubai.com/


----------



## Kevan

When I first started here, many years ago, The Administrator !!!! would delete your posts re anything other than construction updates. i.e. this one I have just posted!!!


----------



## jellyfish

*Cabinets in the villas*

Dear JP members,

For those of you who have moved in and have the contemporary style villa (light brown cabinets.) Are you cabinets in the kitchen and bedrooms 'dry' or do they have a shiny/glossy coat?


----------



## burntfingers

Hi All,
DEC customer services sent me updated photos and usual letter stating "thank you for your continued support" etc etc. However the photo`s appear to be the old ones just taken from different angle. I cannot see any progress.
I have sent a TERRIBLE LETTER to everyone at DEC STATING ...Do not treat us as fools and demanding a detailed progress report and a truthful completion date. Things are picking up in Dubai from what I have read etc....So why are we still getting nowhere with DEC ???? 
Still refusing to pay 2,000 AED Interim Registration Fee until I know L4 will be completed. Am I right in doing so ?


----------



## fightback

Kevan said:


> When I first started here, many years ago, The Administrator !!!! would delete your posts re anything other than construction updates. i.e. this one I have just posted!!!


2005 you joined so do you have other Select properties in your portfolio? Lets discuss construction of West Avenue. I find the construction of West Avenue very interesting. What is the completion date?


----------



## axe2grind

Pro Bono said:


> Dear Investors,
> 
> Thank you for your overwhelming response. We now have over 120 e-mail addresses from investors in all of Select Groups projects in the UAE. It seems like Selects legal problems are only just beginning.
> 
> We have not got the time to respond individually to all requests due to the sheer numbers involved. A couple of you have expressed a view that we are not genuine as we have not yet delivered the goods. As we said from the start we CAN NOT provide the detailed case report and evidence until the matter is a public one.
> 
> Please be assured that once this matter becomes public in the Dubai Court the full case files will be provided to everyone who has provided us with a valid e-mail address. We understand your frustrations but must act within the law and intend to do so.
> 
> The case file will prove the following;
> 
> *Force Majeure on all Select projects are pure fantasy. FACT.*
> *Late delivery penalties as per SPA are due to investors. FACT.*
> *All addendums are unnecessary to effect handover and are tantamount to bribery, these addendums are contrary to UAE civil law. FACT*
> *Unit sizes as per SPA definition and what has been delivered is 10%-20% short and you are eligible for a refund pro rata. FACT*
> 
> Select Group - Rahail Aslam simply rely on a slow legal process and a lack of resolve from investors to get away with robbery.
> 
> If you know the law and how to play the game you win. They lose.


Having seen your post why are you advocating taking these disputes to the Dubai Courts? All of Selects SPA's have arbitration as the means of settling disputes.
I agree with all of your comments about the tactics used by Select and your points above. Have you come across any difficulties with the arbitration approach and in particular the fact that all Select's SPA's are signed by Mark Littlewood who is a sales director of a UK company. No SPA's I have seen are signed by Rahail Islam or Noor Khan the company directors.
Another point to remember is that although you have 120 responders each of these cases will have to be dealt with individually as class actions are not permitted under UAE law.


----------



## Kevan

oh if only I had a portfolio.... instead I simply have a completed apartment

...and for three years I worried terribly that it would never be completed, however, four years after completion I still look forward and never tire of my view over one of the best skylines i have seen. ;-)


----------



## Akasha

Well the European is only a month or so behind the Med building.

The other 2 buildings were in phase 2, which was put on-hold. However, I've recently heard from people who invested in it, that's it's now been cancelled completely. But those investors are struggling to get their money back.


----------



## fightback

Kevan said:


> oh if only I had a portfolio.... instead I simply have a completed apartment
> 
> ...and for three years I worried terribly that it would never be completed, however, four years after completion I still look forward and never tire of my view over one of the best skylines i have seen. ;-)


I feel it is a matter of personal preference - we lived abroad for 3 years until recently and the best skyline I enjoy is the one I can see whilst being with my family


----------



## Kevan

fightback said:


> I feel it is a matter of personal preference - we lived abroad for 3 years until recently and the best skyline I enjoy is the one I can see whilst being with my family


I agree, but my bolt hole in the sun is absolute solace, of course, unless the children are there.:blahblah::blahblah:

Anyway, where is that administrator?:tyty::tyty:


----------



## fightback

Kevan said:


> I agree, but my bolt hole in the sun is absolute solace, of course, unless the children are there.:blahblah::blahblah:
> 
> Anyway, where is that administrator?:tyty::tyty:


You doing blah blah re fantastic views. Why dont you stick to the subject:

Is or when will West Avenue be complete?:sly:


----------



## Guest

what is the best price one can get at Panorama ? Premium ? And which is the best tower location - view wise ?


----------



## DennyCrane

fightback said:


> You doing blah blah re fantastic views. Why dont you stick to the subject:
> 
> Is or when will West Avenue be complete?:sly:


Believe it or not its running late.......should have been Q3 2013 but its now pushing into 2014. Probably a force majeure involved somewhere..


----------



## Global Player

sunil C said:


> what is the best price one can get at Panorama ? Premium ? And which is the best tower location - view wise ?


try calling some of the agents in dubai, but from what i've read on these forums is anywhere from 20-30% premium. worth noting, as the panorama project nears completion/hand-over, the prices will increase, definitely. 

all of them have "views" of some sort..then there's the golf course view, which will have the "best" view. the one i got, didn't have a choice at the time, is a corner unit from the balcony will have partial golf course view and most of the back road (don't know the name of it) that goes to mall of the emirates/barsha, where the school and hospital is.


----------



## AW.

*Best units in Panorama*



sunil C said:


> what is the best price one can get at Panorama ? Premium ? And which is the best tower location - view wise ?


Building No T2 and T4 are the best golf course facing towers. 
- Tower T2, the 3 B/R units with the "L" shaped balconies have the best golf course view.
- Tower T4, all the 3 B/R units have a good golf course view + the swimming pool & garden view. 
- Tower T3 actually faces the Lakes & Meadows Villa's but can have some golf course view. 

Current premiums for the above units are between 30 - 35%. Not many units are available in the market. But keep trying your luck. You might find something. 

Just keep in mind that @ these premiums you will need to pay approx. 30% of the OP (developer payment for 30% construction) + 30% of the OP (premium to seller) + 2% of the SP (Brokerage) + 2% of the OP (Pre-Registration / Oquood) + 2% of the SP (Transfer Fee). Basically you need approx. AED 1.2 Million to buy a good unit in Panorama.


----------



## Guest

AW, you have a good market knowledge )
premium 30-35% seems a lot !!! 
1.2 million to pay upfront for a good unit is also big task....off plan is a better option where you start with 5% and then construction linked payments , but i understand not all get the chance to see tokens for the launch sales ...
you seems an expert , do the agents gets priority in the registration process compared to individual doing by his own ? i got regret mail from Emaar for the Hills project though i did it in 3 minutes of the begining of the registration . 
i understood from your message that re-sale is big NO ! one has to pay almost 70% including premium to the seller ....seems not many can do it ...
are you aware of any good new project launch of Emaar in near future ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Global index compiler MSCI on Tuesday upgraded the United Arab Emirates from a frontier market to an emerging market. U.K.-based HSBC says capital flows into the UAE could increase by $370 million per year after the decision comes into effect.


----------



## fightback

DennyCrane said:


> Believe it or not its running late.......should have been Q3 2013 but its now pushing into 2014. Probably a force majeure involved somewhere..


How many are sold? does anyone know? I know it is being RE-LAUNCHED at the moment by Select Property in Wilmslow (Mark Stott). Wikipedia states complete! ha ha

:lol:


----------



## nassah

when is the next laund after india

what was launch prices india launch


----------



## nassah

what are the prices and payment schedule 

are the villas launched??


----------



## m_nasef

Hi,

For those who bought from Tasameem Real Estate, does anyone have any contact for them? I need it urgently as I'm having an issue with my villa. 

Appreciate your prompt response.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Sure all are nice, every building in glossy pictures are nice (but not real), problem is off plans cannot be trusted no matter who by - Oasis Group was the same. If anyone wanted to go to a casino and play Russian roulette then that's the choice they would make because that's the risk one knows it is. Whoever thought it would be a risk to invest in property, that's the safest form of investment. Property shouldn't be a gamble but with off plans there that's what it turns out to be. Many people found out the hard way and that's not to trust any developer offering off plan over there anymore no matter how big or small they are. Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on.hno:hno:


----------



## fightback

*BULLSHIT*



Dubai_Steve said:


> The recession happened


BULLSHIT! The investors still had to keep making the payments into the ESCROW accounts? We had no return on investment for 6 years! Then when it was a viable property they de-registered the apartment for the arrears of one payment, in our case, despite our offer to pay! Still offering to pay and still want our apartment re-registered. Rahail Aslam plelase take note.

Maybe its time to look at the ESCROW accounts to see when the money was released and at what agreed stages. This is our right as investers.

Force Majeure?

PEOPLE POWER!


----------



## fightback

hawki said:


> Hi
> I am an investor that bought into this development and also The Torch. I am very angry and disappointed with Select and would welcome any assistance as I took handover and felt blackmailed . my e mail is [email protected] many thanks


Have you considered Arbitration? Goodluck. PM me if you like.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Back to your question about the launch, there were no investors for west avenue due to the recession and then high asking price, so was relaunched after construction started.


----------



## IISinbadII

shotcaller said:


> Hi everyone. I'm relatively new to the property game in Dubai so I'd appreciate it if anyone has suggestions on where to invest (area, type of property, off-plan or ready units, etc etc). I'm not a flipper by any means nor do I expect unrealistic returns. Simply put, my aim is to get a decent rental yield and decent growth in the medium term.
> 
> Once again, I'd truly appreciate it if anyone out there could give their two cents.


Hi and welcome to the forum. Here are some general guidelines:

-Area: Stay near Sheykh Zayed Road and the Metro Stations.
Places like Dubai Marina, Burj Khalifa downtown, JLT, Business Bay, Greens, Discovery Gardens, etc.

-Stay away from off-plan. Go for property that is ready to move in. This way you avoid a lot of uncertainties plus you can rent it out soon after buying.

-Go with large well known developers with a good track record like Emaar, (and possibly Nakheel), etc.

-If possible go for units with something extra like a maids room, study, garden or something like that. This will help you in bad times and may give you an edge over others.

-Good Views are important. Esp if its a full view of water (marina, sea), park, garden, known landmark (like Burj Khalifa), golf course, etc. Again this will help you in bad times and may give you an edge over others.

-Look at the build quality, white goods, security etc.

-Walk around the neighborhood and see how far is the nearest supermarket, mall, metro station, bus stop, taxi stand, jogging track.

-Find out your tenant catchment area like business centers, city center, free zones. (people want to live near their work location)

-Check the amenities swimming pool, gym, etc.

-For Dubai higher the floor the better (something to do with dust/sand, views). Avoid ground floors unless if it comes with a garden or something extra)

-Generally smaller units (studios, 1br) fetch better rental return than larger units (2br, 3br). Plus they are easy to rent out.

-Ask about the annual service fees. Check if you have to pay for the chiller (bill comes with service fee invoice) or the tenant (bill comes along with dewa charges).

Good luck.


----------



## True Blue

^^So you are saying absolutely no one invested here during the initial launch?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

As far as I know that is the case. The initial launch was just before the global crash (launch price of 2500psf). I think there was talk of 1 or 2 investors maybe that got refunded eventually.

The new launch price was much lower.


----------



## unknownpleasures

IISinbadII said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum. Here are some general guidelines:
> 
> -Stay away from off-plan. Go for property that is ready to move in. This way you avoid a lot of uncertainties plus you can rent it out soon after buying.
> 
> -Go with large well known developers with a good track record like Emaar, (and possibly Nakheel), etc.


 - Agree. Have said this repeatedly, keep away from all off plans in my opinion

- Disagree re (possibly) Nakheel (if you are talking about off plan). What happened at the world? Emaar isn't infallable either, if off plans are involved anything can happen. An the only "safe" one is a completed one, agree on that.

Whilst all this advice is being given out, do you know what happens when a project gets cancelled by RERA any advice on that?:cheers:


----------



## methodinmadness

I went to the site again yesterday. IF this is Royal Estates, then this is what I saw http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/markywg1963/RoyalEstates_zpse2ad68be.jpg 
Shah100 - No show house is even remotely ready... by the end of June as you claim! What about the other 41 town houses?

I will let the other members of this forum decide whether or not your information is credible. You might want to add the photos you also took?:bash:


----------



## IISinbadII

unknownpleasures said:


> - Disagree re (possibly) Nakheel (if you are talking about off plan). What happened at the world? Emaar isn't infallable either, if off plans are involved anything can happen. An the only "safe" one is a completed one, agree on that.


^^ you have misunderstood me dear. I am totally against off plan. The only compromise is something near completion, but never off=plan.

So, when I say Emaar or Nakheel. I mean completed properties by these developers. And among the two, Emaar customer services are much superior to that of Nakheel. 

So to summarize once again:

-Keep away from off-plan (regardless of the developer).
-Go for completed (or near completion) projects by Emaar (and possibly Nakheel).

Good luck.


----------



## TerryPop

^^

Totolly agree re off-plan. I would avoid all.

There is no price advantage if you look at them in full price terms.



The only reasons people do buy into off plan _*imo*_ are:

Because they cannot get a mortgage (like a 20 per cent down mortgage), 

They do not have upfront cash for full purchase (but they have income that can meet the payment plan)

or (more likely)

They are speculating and looking to flip based on minimimal deposit and long payment plan.


----------



## TerryPop

Incidentally regarding the state of the market:

We have been trying to buy completed property in various projects and it has turned into a bit of a night mare.

Sellers are constantly pushing the price up when you start to close.

The market may be expecting some significant capital gains- but I can't see it without rents going up- as mentioned before.


----------



## Abashiri

I have really been enjoying this thread. I was just wondering why Jumeirah Village Circle is not mentioned much. It seems like you can get apartments there for good value and when the neighborhood finishes, they will be worth much more. Rent yields also seem to be around 7%. I personally would not want to rent there (now), but it seems some people like it for the all-round location and cheap-rent...


----------



## unknownpleasures

IISinbadII said:


> So to summarize once again:
> 
> -Keep away from off-plan (regardless of the developer).
> -Go for completed (or near completion) projects by Emaar (and possibly Nakheel).
> 
> Good luck.


No misunderstanding just clarification was needed mate. Certainly agree with you re off plan, and certainly agree to keep away from even the best. Nothing is certain over there and there lies the problem.

Any ready project of course but who knew about any of this in 2007...people are now willing to speak, nothing about it before and that is where the problem was.


----------



## unknownpleasures

No reply on the cancellation part of a question left some days ago, so can we agree and say safely here that no body knows anything about it.


----------



## unknownpleasures

This is what happened in 2007, and now a repeat, it's all about the word "guarantee"



> DAMAC Properties Offers 24% Rental Return Guarantee
> 
> In its latest initiative aimed at boosting property sales, luxury developer DAMAC Properties is offering a 24% rental return guarantee on all units purchased within its Burjside Terrace serviced apartment development in Dubai.
> 
> The developer is offering a guaranteed tax-free 8% annual rental return over three years, in a move aimed at increasing investor confidence in the stability and security of the property market in Dubai.
> 
> “A secure, guaranteed 8% annual return on investment is virtually unheard of anywhere in the world at the moment. There is no catch, no fine print, if you purchase a serviced apartment in our Burjside Terrace development, we will guarantee an annual 8% rental return, or a 24% total rental return over three years” said Niall McLoughlin, Senior Vice President, DAMAC Properties
> 
> http://www.damacproperties.com/fa/p...erties-offers-24-rental-return-guarantee.html


----------



## unknownpleasures

^^^^^



> Damac Properties, one of the hardest-hit developers during Dubai’s real estate market meltdown five years ago, launched a 28 million-square-foot luxury villa and condo project on the outskirts of the city last month. To fund construction, the company is using a financing model that should be familiar to anyone who has experienced or read about Dubai’s bursting property bubble: off-plan sales.
> 
> Hussein Sajwani, Damac’s chairman, said on Sunday that construction of its new Akoya project, which includes an 18-hole golf course managed by Trump International, will be 80% financed by customers. Damac is only putting up 20% of the cost, although it also used its own funds to pay for the land upon which it is to be built.
> 
> The inadequacy of off-plan sales was supposed to be one of the lessons developers and regulators learned from the crisis, which sent real estate prices tumbling by more than half in some parts of Dubai. Such sales were problematic because customers paid up before projects were built. When the market turned sour and developers slowed down or scaled back, many investors had trouble getting their money back.


http://www.arabherald.com/index.php/sid/214326051/scat/e3942fd745a4fbc9


----------



## m_nasef

Finally got the keys on Thu. I registered in DEWA on Thu and moving today, yet no water! There is electricity for lighting but A/C is not working!!! Any ideas?!

Do I need to clean the water tank? Do any pest control? 

Appreciate your help...


----------



## dave83

*Market*



unknownpleasures said:


> ^^^^^
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.arabherald.com/index.php/sid/214326051/scat/e3942fd745a4fbc9


I agree. Be suspicious of anyone who is offering you a "guarantee" on your investment which sounds good to be true (I won't use the word "too" before good since it's not amazing), especially in a country where there are few means to enforce the "guarantee". 

I wouldn't be wary of buying off-plan from Emaar though if the price is right - as it probably was for those villas it was building far away. Also, if you are buying in off plan, budget a "margin of deception" risk in your calculations e.g. for the developer giving you less sq. footage then promised, doubling service charges, delaying construction etc. etc. - these things would not necessarily put me off, but a smart investor should put a $ value on these and then make the investment decision.

Finally, yield is king. If you are getting a genuine 6-7% NET on ready property, go for it. I think there is some capital appreciation left in the market, can't say much but I wouldn't be surprised at another 10-15% over the next few months/year.


----------



## shah100

Dear All 

Thanks for your update. I can confirm pictures you have posted are Royal Estate Regal Row Town Houses 1st Phase as I was shown around by the CEO of Aristocrats Royal Estates in May 2013. 

I am investor like you and I said whatever I was told by the C.E.O in the meeting at the site with the site manager. The developer claimed they will build the show house by end of June. If the developer has delayed the project for last 5 years what is a few weeks now when they have actually now started the work.

I am telling you from my own experience you won't get a single dirham from these Dubai developers. If anybody could have got it they would have done up till now. 

One other developer Damac they have confiscated my 40% and got my unit cancelled from Land dept. My objection was they did not build the project with in 5 years and building work was completed less than 50% and no infrastructure which was promised. Land department and Developer are same thing in Dubai. 

I am investor and nothing to do with developer. From my past experience I know that as the building progress is going on The Royal Estate will very soon ask you to pay with RERA payment plan and if you don't pay they will cancel the units and the investor will not get single Dirham.

Land department do not listen to investors. Maximum advice you get from them, take developer to the court. I am also investor in one other project. Land department has officially cancelled the project money is lying in Escrow account more than 2 years no refund.

I don't want Regal Row townhouses but I have no choice either to loose 30% or carry on. I have already lost a lot of money on off plan properties, but as this project is now being built and I have physically gone and met up with the CEO who showed me the work in progress and for that reason Im still there.

If you have solution please tell us. My suggestion for everybody is negotiate with developer on prices and keep your unit, when prices will go up sell it in this way you can recover your money. There are many new projects starting now and prices for building materials will rise to compensate the demand.

Dont dream of getting any thing back from developer because of the land department of Dubai and real estate court system of Dubai. 

Regards

Shah


----------



## JPOwnerSociety

Thank you Al Shali,

lets do this:

Here, for negative comments
FB group, for inquiries + questions that someone needs a fast answer to.

Thanks


----------



## santori

So can we get a clearer idea on which sector or Packages have already gotten Du service activated? I can tell you that I'm in Sector P, package 5 and Du service is not yet available for my villa


----------



## santori

As for the facebook pages, I'm a little confused since there seem to be 2 different ones...the link above is for a group with 13 members currently but there is another group which one can't join but only "like" and that is also called JP Owners Society...its unclear where one should post a question to get some helpful input...this forum has served well so far over the years


----------



## Towers3

mb1612 said:


> Just had an email claiming completion/handover will be in September- also to send remaining balance of funds, has anyone done this?


Please join this group for updates. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/518104194923742/


----------



## Steverobo

It all seems very quiet ? I expected lots of posts now snagging is apparently in progress ?


----------



## Number 49

*Good news, bad news, difficult to understand news!!*



zic320 said:


> well guys bad new are coming up!! the project will not be finished before 12 to 18 months!! actually I did some investigation with some UAE banks and one of them informally told me that the developer is not that strong financially ( even struggling) to finish it and its impossible to be in 6 to 9 month as announced by the project sales office. the last transaction happened 2 months back before the delay announcement and since that time it s very quite!! the good new is that the prices will be up from 150 to 200% on delivery as per financing companies.


Zic

Not sure this makes sense.
If there is no confidence that the developer can finish the project, on what basis are the financing companies estimating a 150% to 200% price increase on delivery? 
Who do they expect will deliver it?
Perhaps more investigation is required?


----------



## UAE Investor

Steverobo said:


> It all seems very quiet ? I expected lots of posts now snagging is apparently in progress ?


Hope todo some snagging myself when it's ready..?


----------



## shah100

Hi

I called Royal estate to find out when the show home will be ready. They told me It will be ready near last week of July. 

Regards,

Shah


----------



## unknownpleasures

Wasn't that already happening ? ? ? ? << the snagging ? <<


----------



## unknownpleasures

Flintbug said:


> Damac had already been caught out lying about structural completion in early 2007 on this site (see around page 7 on that thread) but you would not have picked those messages up through a casual google search. Google was overwhelmed by 'official' damac messages. Other developers were already going bust and those were being reported here too.


True you would need to know the name of the developer I guess, not many knew about it then. However as mentioned a lot more was found in 2009 without having too much trouble in google search that's how this forum was located. In 2009 it was taboo to even talk about it - eg DSC thread, a specific thread that caught attention at the time was Oasis Tower 2 in DSC, this was closed down due to "investment talk" yet it was happening all over the place...so I kinda don't get the fact that it was allowed anywhere else and most of the time there was a lot of hostility shown even to mention anything about the problems people were having.


----------



## Spurs

They have been lying none stop for 5 years. Why would anyone trust them now??


----------



## jp resident

I'm in package 4 and I am connected to DU since 30 minutes !! hooray !

the rest is ok, have a few problems with the ac upstairs which is working but not cooling too well. will call maintenance. they are very helpful i must say.

eitherwise bits and pieces need to be taken care of but nothing too bad.

looking forward to having people move in now and maybe a few signposts to help people find us! 

impossible to get taxis here...


----------



## Number 49

zic320 said:


> yess guys work is going on ( please read back what I wrote ) but the developer doesnt have enough cash to finish it in 6 to 9 months. we can only talk 12 moths and more. I got some client trying to finance some unit and my bank CBG investigation ended up by refusing it because of the developper cash flow and it is under construction project. Yes enshaa is a good company but as most of the developper is facing cash shortage that s all i wanted to say.
> every one will get his unit but don t plan on less than 12 months delivery as sales agents promote.


Zic
I don't wish to labour this point, but if there is confidence that the D1 will be finished, in 12, 15 or more months and there is confidence that when it is finished, the units will be valued at a substantial premium, why wouldn't finance be available? Surely, there's no risk! The asset will materialise and at a premium.
The only financing risk would be if the project is never finished. 

Why don't the finance companies just offer a 24 month loan with a clause to extend if the D1 is delayed even further? As long as the value of the asset they're lending against doesn't fall below the value of the repayments, what's the problem? 
Am I missing something?


----------



## skkappi

Hi Guys.
I need help.
I bought flat in PIM, but almasah said : you bought in PIM and all question to PIM. Now your flat is sold. And we dont have your money


----------



## shah100

Hi

If you have any solution please let me know. Land depatment won't help us. Only way to get your money take developer to court but whats guarantee to achieve results in your favor. Unless Dubai Govt do some thing for investor.

Royal estate informed me they are doing interior decorative work inside he Show Home and It will be ready in last week of July.

Shah


----------



## Flintbug

unknownpleasures said:


> True you would need to know the name of the developer I guess, not many knew about it then. However as mentioned a lot more was found in 2009 without having too much trouble in google search that's how this forum was located. In 2009 it was taboo to even talk about it - eg DSC thread, a specific thread that caught attention at the time was Oasis Tower 2 in DSC, this was closed down due to "investment talk" yet it was happening all over the place...so I kinda don't get the fact that it was allowed anywhere else and most of the time there was a lot of hostility shown even to mention anything about the problems people were having.


There is a big difference between investment talk and construction talk. The re-inforcing bars for future floors were clearly visible, and structural work of about 4 floors and a roof did restart long after Damac had claimed structural completion.


----------



## lovedubai

Is anyone else having problems with Falak Properties in Dubai Sports City - Ice Hockey Tower etc. If so please pm or write here. Thanks


----------



## Raniad

Hi. Has anyone in package 6 sector C 3 large legacy received any information about handover dates?


----------



## m_nasef

jp resident said:


> I'm in package 4 and I am connected to DU since 30 minutes !! hooray !
> 
> the rest is ok, have a few problems with the ac upstairs which is working but not cooling too well. will call maintenance. they are very helpful i must say.
> 
> eitherwise bits and pieces need to be taken care of but nothing too bad.
> 
> looking forward to having people move in now and maybe a few signposts to help people find us!
> 
> impossible to get taxis here...


Hi jp resident,

Which Sector are you in? I'm in sector O villa 24 and they told me service is not ready yet!


----------



## m_nasef

Hi All,

For those who received DEWA bills, is there any housing fees included? if yes, how much is it for 3 bed small?


----------



## unknownpleasures

Flintbug said:


> There is a big difference between investment talk and construction talk. The re-inforcing bars for future floors were clearly visible, and structural work of about 4 floors and a roof did restart long after Damac had claimed structural completion.


I agree with you, perhaps the problem lies with who was controlling it all, it was pointed towards the direction where the problem was as example...not talking about Damac it's in general in most of the threads and in the direction of where the problem had been pointed out as most people were asking what was going on with construction not about wanting to invest, however somehow it was taken the wrong way,,,the thread was closed and the reason provided "investment talk" and anyone who wanted to say anything about it were being directed here. There were other threads started and closed off and it's a wonder how this could be the case when so much about developers were being mentioned and in 2009 it was taboo over there re completion etc...reason why it was mentioned (nothing to do with Damac)....other developers were an issue but taboo to speak...

>> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=525052


----------



## unknownpleasures

lovedubai said:


> Is anyone else having problems with Falak Properties in Dubai Sports City - Ice Hockey Tower etc. If so please pm or write here. Thanks


What problems are you referring to as this one is completed unlike many others in that area can you be more specific ?


----------



## fightback

True Blue said:


> Not according to statements on this forum. One potential buyer was advised directly by Select that nearly all the studios were sold out. Select refunding people! That would be a first. They don't even give the money back after they loose in the court of arbitration.


That may just be what they want us to believe. 

PEOPLE POWER!


----------



## methodinmadness

shah100 said:


> Hi
> 
> If you have any solution please let me know. Land depatment won't help us. Only way to get your money take developer to court but whats guarantee to achieve results in your favor. Unless Dubai Govt do some thing for investor.
> 
> Royal estate informed me they are doing interior decorative work inside he Show Home and It will be ready in last week of July.
> 
> Shah


Shah. I wish I had your faith in Royal Estates but as we all can clearly see, they consistently lie about this project. One day they probably will finish these town houses but they don't have any support from the investors that have already paid and been deceived. I will go there at the end of July and prove once again they are lying.


----------



## jp resident

*to m_nasef*

we are 
4 sector N.

no dewa bill as yet.


----------



## Nad80

*AC manual*

Hello! Our landlord did not handover the AC manual to us. Can anybody explain how to set the timer of the AC, thus it runs automatic e.g. everyday from 2h-3h? Or can anybody upload the manual? Many thanks!


----------



## advlive

thanks Tony 90 for update photos
only I do not know why name project park ?!! there is no park like organization home


----------



## shah100

HI thanks for your comments. I have hope that I will recover some loses If they complete these town houses. When I had meeting with Royal Estate CEO. He told me they are putting their own money. This is my opinion they might have not support from the investor 2007. But they will get new investor. They will try to confiscate money belong to 2007 investor and bring down prices to attract new investors. Royal estate will do all this with the support of Land department. My guess, they will complete show home by end of july. 

I am investor and just want my hard earned money back.

Regards,

Shah


----------



## unknownpleasures

fightback said:


> Not all SPA signed by Mark Littlewood, Mark Stott signed ours and others. They state that Littlewood and Stott appointed 'signees' for Torch SelectLimited. Obviously this was not what was said at the time when they and their colleagues at Dubai Select wilmslow (NOW SELECT PROPERTY) mis-lead us that it was "their development". However, they cant have it both ways with Rahail Aslam claiming that Mark Stott signed therefore Rahail Aslam not responsible or Noor Khan surely they are not claiming that? Would not put it past them. Hope new buyers carry out 'due diligence' before purchasing anything from them. Wish we had. BUYER BEWARE hno:



Just out of interest are SPA's required to be signed by the developer (in their name - in other words does their name have to appear as the signature) or can their staff sign them (this relates to another project btw not the one you mention)..does it make it valid or not valid? I noticed you mentioned some names here for this particular project (seems these are either the owners or directors) so was just wondering how it all worked in relation to other projects. :cheers:


----------



## Spurs

shah100 said:


> They will try to confiscate money belong to 2007 investor and bring down prices to attract new investors. Royal estate will do all this with the support of Land department. My guess, they will complete show home by end of july.
> 
> Shah


Why would anyone give these people anymore money when they behave like this!!


----------



## Rob Timpie

unknownpleasures said:


> They seem to have a good record so far at least they have completed several and they did have quite a few. Problem is if you are the only one paying and no one else how will they finish that's the real problem. It's a bad situation overall in DSC, most people have already lost. Look at the cube that was once going to be something quite iconic, german co,,,and look where it is now. Lots more like that.


Can you mention one completed building anywhere in the world from Memon? hno:


----------



## UAE Investor

i think he got mixed up with Elite,s whats its name


----------



## UAE Investor

unknownpleasures said:


> They seem to have a good record so far at least they have completed several and they did have quite a few. .


Really ! 











:lol:

this answers every thing rob....!


:cheers:


----------



## UAE Investor

mistaken post !


----------



## m_nasef

jp resident said:


> we are
> 4 sector N.
> 
> no dewa bill as yet.


So what did you do to get DU connected? I'm fighting with them since a week now with no progress!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Rob Timpie said:


> Can you mention one completed building anywhere in the world from Memon? hno:





Rob Timpie said:


> Because 2 years ago I changed my payment plan and now I pay for every floor.
> At least they are building again. CT 1 looks oké to me, so I hope eventually they will finish CT4.



You said it! Someone who goes out of their way to pay them dead money..........does that sound better... hno:hno:

You might be saved... http://www.emirates247.com/business...dubai-sports-city-project-2013-06-27-1.512263



> Orion Holdings, a Dubai-based property developer, has acquried property worth Dh22.1 million from Memon Investments, the property arm of Memon Group of Companies.
> 
> A memorandum of understanding cementing the deal was signed between the two parties on June 1.
> 
> Frankfurt Tower 1 in Dubai Sports City is about 40 per cent complete and is scheduled for delivery by September 2014. The residential project will have 224 units, including 140 studios, 56 one-bedroom units, and 28 two-bedroom apartments.


^^^^ they've bailed them out supposedly it could be your turn next!!!!!

:cheers:


----------



## unknownpleasures

Towers3 said:


> Hi Rob, can you explain to other CT investors this info please. Are you in touch with other CT4 investors that have changed their payment plan please? Is it just you? Was it easy to do? Really helpful info to know please.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/518104194923742/


^^^^^


----------



## sicbaldi

*Housing fees - 5beds*

Hi JP forum,
I've received my first Housing Fees in the DEWA bill @1,125 for my 5 beds villa. Considering that it's calculated at five per cent of the rental value estimated by RERA, it means that they've estimated the annual rental at 270,000.
(270,000 * 5% / 12 = 1,125)

Same for yours, please? Any feedback is welcome.


----------



## myselfme&I

Raniad said:


> Hi. Has anyone in package 6 sector C 3 large legacy received any information about handover dates?


Some of the Sector D & B in package 6 have been handed over not the C.


----------



## jp resident

For DU, I went to DU offices at 8am twice. 
Then finally got a call. 

Got my first DEWA bill, no housing fee but
2600 AED for 15 days ! 2500 of which is wlectricity ! I had left the "air freshener" on to
see if it makes a difference. Now 1 July I will turn it off and
see next month. lets hope that's what makes it sooo high.


----------



## jp resident

We are owners and haven't received any sorts of manual !


----------



## sicbaldi

*manuals*

All, the manuals (electrical, air conditioning, swimming pool etc..) are in pdf format inside the CD that has been given to each house. 

Look under Handing Over Documents


----------



## sicbaldi

*On Housing Fees*

For the housing fees, you need to contact Dubai Municipality. You can submit a form online, in their portal. The information will be passed to DEWA to calculate your municipality fees.


----------



## jp resident

in package 4 we didnt get the CD !


----------



## Nad80

sicbaldi said:


> All, the manuals (electrical, air conditioning, swimming pool etc..) are in pdf format inside the CD that has been given to each house.
> 
> Look under Handing Over Documents


Yes exactly, that's what Nakheel told us, but our landlord does not react. Sicbaldi, would you mind sending me the pdf for the AC manual? This would be great help and much appreciated!!! please PM me...


----------



## osteo

Hi Fightback,
Any news on the arbitration hearing with select yet.


----------



## sicbaldi

*AC Manuals*

.. Hi anyone interested in the AC manuals, please send me an email to [email protected]


----------



## hi_five

Jumeirah Village Traingle have own website. http://jvtcommunity.com/about/
Nice if JP has one as well


----------



## Steverobo

I thought so ? Im in the Venetian so Ive got a long wait, but I expected to see more details here on the other buildings?


----------



## axe2grind

*Power of Attorney*



unknownpleasures said:


> Just out of interest are SPA's required to be signed by the developer (in their name - in other words does their name have to appear as the signature) or can their staff sign them (this relates to another project btw not the one you mention)..does it make it valid or not valid? I noticed you mentioned some names here for this particular project (seems these are either the owners or directors) so was just wondering how it all worked in relation to other projects. :cheers:


Your contract has to be signed by either one of the registered owners of the company or registered directors of the developer company holding a license to build and develope real estate in the UAE. The registered owners/directors can delegate their authority to a third party, usually a manager of the company, via a Power of Attorney. The POA has to be specific as to what powers the owners are delegating to the third party and it has to be in Arabic and attested in the civil courts at the Notary Public and then authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. 
If this is not done and a third party signs the contract on behalf of the Seller then it is not a valid contract. look specifically at clause 19.6 of the Bay Central SPA's. They shoot themselves in the foot with this wording especially if Mark Littlewood or Mark stott have signed the SPA on behalf of the Seller.
There are lots of contracts that have been signed by sales reps. and other employees who do not have the authority to do so. When arbitration time comes around they simply point to the fact that the contract is not signed by an authorised signatory of the company and a court of cassation ruling from 2005 has confirmed that unless a signatory acting on a POA has specific authority to commit the company to arbitration then only can the dispute be referred to arbitration. If no specific authority then the dispute should be referred to the civil courts. Always ask the person who has signed your contract on behalf of the seller for his POA. Try asking Bay Central Developments for Littlewoods or Stotts POA, its your right, but see what the response will be.


----------



## building1

Hilliana: I just did the next 7% payment but I do not have the SPA yet. Did anybody got their SPA yet ?


----------



## CaJee

Building1, how many installments have u payed already? as I know spa should be issued after 2nd one, my 2nd one will be in 1 month, then planning to get mine.


----------



## dave83

As tragic as events in Egypt are, its probably a boost for Dubai property.


----------



## building1

CaJee said:


> Building1, how many installments have u payed already? as I know spa should be issued after 2nd one, my 2nd one will be in 1 month, then planning to get mine.


That was the 3rd installment. I paid 19% by now.


----------



## Akasha

The snagging for the Med is underway, I think it will be completed in the next couple of weeks. I think it looks good - not too many issues need to be resolved.


----------



## stuckinSeasons

*Did anyone get option to transfer to one of two clusters being built?*

New to the forum.. and looks like I should have joined a while back.

Just like all of you I had a unit in "Springs", but obviously they are not constructing it. So they offered me a unit in "Summer".

1) they informed me that they are not reimbursing me my deposit and it I took the legal route it would take 12-18 months. - Is that the case?
2) What if any leverage you would have to negotiate better rate then they are offering for "summer"? or what is a reasonable rate per soft that I should try to negotiate with them?

any latest on these would be really helpful.


----------



## tonydubai

Hi Akasha, I'm an owner in the European so am very interestedin how nagging is progressing, when do you officially getthekeys and when is the final payment due..?


----------



## fightback

unknownpleasures said:


> Just out of interest are SPA's required to be signed by the developer (in their name - in other words does their name have to appear as the signature) or can their staff sign them (this relates to another project btw not the one you mention)..does it make it valid or not valid? I noticed you mentioned some names here for this particular project (seems these are either the owners or directors) so was just wondering how it all worked in relation to other projects. :cheers:


Yes unknown this is a very interesting point. Im on the case


----------



## aboutaour

It seems that the hand-over for package 5 has now been postponed to September (due to some delay with DEWA! )- Anyone got a confirmation on that?


----------



## AW.

As per Nakheel, package 6.1 delivery has been postponed from July to Nov this year. Reason cited is pending DEWA connections on sewage and water. I don't understand this as Nakheel recently auctioned some villas in Package 6 last month citing delivery in July.

Does anyone have any better update?


----------



## w8ting

Dear Nasir as Lotus investors we are facing the same problem with those Damac practices you described. You pay 40% of your unit, you wait for years (6) without any compensation neither consideration and when the delayed project is coming out the developer is trying to push you out of it and sell again your apartment.
Many bad intentions can be suspected from developer's attitude, but maybe not .The Investors (as me) will know which path to choose depending events upon completion of the project between his title deed or the Dubai court. We may have doubts about our developer but the Dubai court Judges have my full trust.


----------



## beer51

Not a good idea to stop making payment as you can be in breach of contract and lose all your money and the apartment, better to speak to the developer and find out what is the issue.


----------



## atif_elhadi

Hi Skkapi, who told you this from Al masah? any names? If you bought from PIM, and AlMasah does not have your name, it means that you were not the first one to buy that unit. Please confirm. In all cases, your money went to Al Saqran developer, and Al Masah should have the apartment booked under the previous owner with the money he already paid to them.


----------



## fightback

Dubai_Steve said:


> Well they said they sold 90% of the total units in the last 5 months. So must be less than 10% that was sold originally at most but presumably just a few were sold and they still have 10% stock left. :dunno:


Are the SPA signed by Mark Stott as Agent in UK Legal in UAE Court?


----------



## JeoPardy

Got my keys today in 4a after snagging completion. thanks to this forum, I was well prepared for snagging and identified issues already by JP owners (water leakage, electrical, AC, paint, broken tiles etc., DEWAL bill reset etc.).
also got a good deal for landscaping and tile fitting around swimming pool for only 25k, that also includes wallpaper fitting inside villa.
fingers crossed to face surprises after moving in next couple of weeks..!


----------



## usamakhalid

sh.kh said:


> What is you joining date at RBA real estate
> i am an investor not working in rba just bought a studio in fortunato week ago
> regards
> usama khalid


----------



## sgn7200

Hello Friends! It appears we are all in the dark and do not know what DEC are really up to. They do not reply to any requests for information nor do they tell us when are they likely to re-start the unfinished projects. They have a standard reply which is blame the Dubai Land Department for not giving them the requisite permissions. Under such circumstances you can just beat your head and blame yourself for investing with DEC. I have a charming wife who keeps reminding me of my foolishness. I have a suggestion which please DO FOLLOW. A 3-DAY SHOW OPENS TODAY AT THE DUBAI INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION & EXHIBITION CENTRE WHERE TOP DUBAI LAND DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS WILL BE PRESENT TO LISTEN TO YOUR COMPLAINTS AND HOPEFULLY TAKE ACTION. ALL OF YOU WHO ARE IN DUBAI OR CAN GET TO DUBAI, PLEASE GO THERE IN LARGE NUMBERS AND TRY TO GET SOME TRUE FACTS. PLEASE PLEASE THE RELIGIOUS TIME IS STARTING AND THIS WILL BE A DEED RECOGNISED BY THAT SUPREME POWER WHO IS WATCHING EVERYTHING. For details of the convention, please follow the linkhttp://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/have-a-property-query-dld-officials-to-answer-2013-04-29-1.504458


----------



## osteo

Hi Pro Bono,
I am new on here and have sent a PM to you.
cheers Osteo


----------



## TerryPop

This story needs to be headlines for the next few years if you want to see capital growth in Dubai.

I believe Property prices in Dubai, once all the hype is cut out are directly linked to the rents they generate (or will generate). 

Rent rises must be seen across the emirate and if this does not happen you will eventually get stagnation on growth. (I say eventually because the market might accept a lower yield say from 6% to 4% net).

If rent rises come to a halt, the spill out to new communities will stall and growth will flatline. Its more important then I think people realise.










beer51 said:


> *Dubai rent rise will force families to move to affordable communities*
> 
> International City rents rise 11%, Dubai Marina 8% in Q2: Asteco
> 
> Rent rises in Dubai’s established communities is likely to force some tenants to move to more affordable communities, according to Asteco Property Management.
> 
> “Residents will be priced out of established communities to more affordable, less developed areas due to the rent rises with landlords controlling terms of rents and payment,” the property management company said in its second-half report on Dubai real estate.
> Read more: http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...to-affordable-communities-2013-07-07-1.513471


----------



## Wac

sgn7200 said:


> Hello Friends! It appears we are all in the dark and do not know what DEC are really up to. They do not reply to any requests for information nor do they tell us when are they likely to re-start the ...


This is really a great idea. Who ever is living in Dubai, please go there.


----------



## fastasleep

Is anyone here interested in selling their villa in JGE? My preference is for the Whispering Pine development. PM me if you're interested. Thanks.


----------



## prodgers

Appreciate all the advice etc on here. We are just about to move into a 3 bed Large in Package 6 sector D. Du have no idea when this will come online - has anyone else been engaged with Du and have any potential dates when we may see Internet connection?

Thanks


----------



## True Blue

^^Quote from the above article;


> The gap between asking rents and existing rates is likely to grow as new tenancy contracts are not protected by the rental cap law.”


They might not be protected by the rental cap law but the market is mature now and residents are not forced to accept an asking price. There are always plenty to choose from.

From my recent experience in the Marina market, I had a lot of unexpected interest for my 2 bed unit in Dorrabay. One lady pointed out that she had been to view a whole load of 2 beds from recently handed over towers and felt they were all too small. The quality of finishing wasn't the issue for most, it was the practicality of having enough space to accommodate their furniture and belongings. Once you have a number of tenants wanting to make an offer, the offers soon escalate. This is a market functioning normally.

If RERA were to impose a rent cap on all properties the market would just turn to underhand dealing. In other words the Landlord will accept the market rate on the contract with a cash payment on the side "for expenses".


----------



## True Blue

True Blue said:


> It's a difficult call but I would say hold.
> 
> Many currency experts feel the £ is over valued and could see a collapse or correction soon. There is turmoil ahead in the markets and some fund managers are feeling nervous therefore some investors may feel safer in property.
> 
> The supply of prime property in Dubai is now finite. All of the future developments seem far away when we consider how the big plan has stalled. No Palm 2 or Palm 3. No Waterfront project or Arabian canal. The villa projects are not that attractive to anyone other than families.
> 
> I saw an increase in rentals on both my apartments this year and had 3 people in a bidding war to rent the 2 bed. To my horror I received an unsolicited offer to buy my 2 bed unit at 30% above where I had valued it. May have something to do with the new developments happening in the marina (Blue Water Island and Jumeirah Village) which will boost the Western portion of the marina. Having been a dust bowl for years this part of the marina can only improve drastically whereas other areas are as good as they can get.
> 
> I mentioned before that cash rich investors are feeling uneasy about leaving money lying in banks or punting on stock markets. Ready now property is the only solution and will be sought out by investors looking for strong medium term gains with some GUARANTEED dividend income in the form of rent.
> 
> I intend to hold and wait and see what happens with currency. If values are boosted to my long term target levels then I may consider selling part of my stock and taking the profit. What I do next with the money will be the problem. Maybe return to speculative building in the UK or invest in Spain


Apologies; I never noticed that I hit the wrong currency symbol. Dollar and Pound symbols are next to each other on my keyboard. For clarity most currency experts feel the GBP £ is over valued and will correct. These articles were written over the last few months and we may have seen it happen already. The parity ratio is around $1.45 to £1. We are close to that today.


----------



## arfie

True Blue said:


> Apologies; I never noticed that I hit the wrong currency symbol. Dollar and Pound symbols are next to each other on my keyboard. For clarity most currency experts feel the GBP £ is over valued and will correct. These articles were written over the last few months and we may have seen it happen already. The parity ratio is around $1.45 to £1. We are close to that today.


Currently we are getting 5.5 AED to £1 which is very good if you want to sell Dhs and bring back to sterling. I know its hard to tell but do we expect much movement on this in the coming months obviously a lot depends on the economic data that comes out in the coming weeks & months.


----------



## kingofsky

Hi Atif Elhadi,
We have bought 2 studio flats from PIM in 2006 & already paid about %40 for each, but 
Almasah said that you paid money to PIM not to us.
Now my question is how to got the building from PIM?
How to do at the present? pls help us if anybody knows about this problem.
Can you introduce a lawyer?


----------



## sicbaldi

*Contact Numbers*

All, would you be so kind to share the key contact phone numbers you have, please? Who do you call in case of help for:

- Water and Electricity
- Nakheel
- AC
- Sewage


Thanks,


----------



## atif_elhadi

Hi Kingofshy,

PIM disappeared.
All Al Saqran units are managed by Almasah.
Al Saqran handed over their Customer database to Almasah with the information they have.
Looks like that for some cases, Almasah did not get the latest update (owner, and money received) that only PIM had (for a reason i dont know... (Almasah playing? Al Saqran playing? PIM playing?).
I would recommend to start from the top. Ask Almasah to tell you who is the current owner of the 2 units you bought. This is your right to know. Get their name and contact details. Best case scenario, they were the previous owner that you bought the apartment from. In such case, your current contract is exactly stating their name and the fact that it was transfered to you. Money given by them to Al Saqran/PIM, should be the same than in the contract, and the same in Almasah accounts. That should facilitate your case toward Almasah and simplify the process without going to court.
If not (owner given by Almasah not matching the person who transfered the unit to you), then ask the owner mentionned to give you the same information (to who he bought and sold the apartment), do this until you know clearly the path from the owner mentioned by Almasah and yourself.
This is my recommendation.


----------



## unknownpleasures

How does anyone buy property in Dubai when contracts are not officially endorsed by a notary public. Is anyone able to explain it since residency visas would also need to be officially approved before purchase right? Once the residency visa runs out aren't you all putting yourselves at risk of losing it all if you are no longer allowed to enter the country? How does it all work there...is anyone able to explain all the facts from A - Z?


----------



## J39

Viewed the show apartments, nice finish, bad location, very noisey,totally overpriced.
Select sales person told me from the high floors there is a great view of the marina lookin over the top of Silverene.
West Avenue 33 floors.
Silverene 34 floors.
So how does that work.
The view at best is glancing between Silverene towers and Nuran.Or a panaramic view of S.Z. Road from the other side!
Also asked Select person if the square footage included the car park space.
I was told no, Select had only done that at Bay Central.
We did not go into whether Select would force buyers to sign illegal adendums,appoint dodgy consultants,deliver late etc etc.
Leopards do not change their spots.


----------



## J39

I would call that a glimpse of the marina between the Address and over the top of Marina Mall.
It does not merit the 2.4M AED Select were asking for a two bed, small apartment


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ Imre is selling them from 1.7m

http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-marina-1022083.html?img/0


----------



## Cnbk

JeoPardy said:


> Got my keys today in 4a after snagging completion. thanks to this forum, I was well prepared for snagging and identified issues already by JP owners (water leakage, electrical, AC, paint, broken tiles etc., DEWAL bill reset etc.).
> also got a good deal for landscaping and tile fitting around swimming pool for only 25k, that also includes wallpaper fitting inside villa.
> fingers crossed to face surprises after moving in next couple of weeks..!


 
Hi,

I am an owner in 4a sector K, but we haven't even received a handover notice
May I ask which sector in 4a your villa is in?

Thanks


----------



## AW.

*Villa Extensions*



PaulR said:


> RE. Villa extensions. I am still waiting for phase 3 handover and in the meantime have been renting in JVT. The past year has been very enlightening with all the snagging issues, A/C economisation, but the main topic of discussion has been the extensions.
> 
> Permission has been sought and granted by Nakheel and the fees duly paid through the various contractors and work started on about 30 villas that I am aware.
> 
> One of the contractors (name rhymmes with engineer 'scammer') has taken the advance fees, then downtooled and left. As far as I am aware not one of the total extensions has been completed! This accounts for around 25 as far as the owners report.
> 
> From my villa I can see two such villas with foundations dug and back windows removed rendering the villas uninhabitable and incomplete.
> 
> The other issue has been Nakheel NOC. The contractor arranges the permissions and his name must appear on the certificate. If he then subcontracts teh work as some have done, and Nakheel find out they stop work. The NOC has a 6 month validity and a few have expired hence work has stopped.
> 
> There does not seem to be many decent builders that can complete the approvals process and manage the entire construction too. Because of the mess that has bee caused in JVT the permissions have apparently changed slightly within Nakheel to avoid a recurrence and the new rules are in conflict with the old.
> 
> ANS - Find a reputable contractor and do not pay him until he has fulfilled all of his obligations to you. If you cannot trust the contractor wait until you find one that can be trusted. From JVT residents not a single contractor has been successful so far with major extensions. Small works such as covering terraces and making internal adjustments have been ok.


PaulR, Thanks for the headsup. 

Anyone planning to extend their villa's should go and see the state of villa's currently under extension in JVT. I feel sorry for the owners whose villas are in broken condition because their contractor turned out to be a crook. Also the idea of breaking walls constructed by the developer and being rebuilt by another contractor did not appeal to me. The developer can demand and drive the quality required but its not possible for a individual owner. After visiting JVT I have dropped my intent of any villa extension. (Unless Nakheel allows construction which is not connected to the main villa).


----------



## m_nasef

prodgers said:


> Appreciate all the advice etc on here. We are just about to move into a 3 bed Large in Package 6 sector D. Du have no idea when this will come online - has anyone else been engaged with Du and have any potential dates when we may see Internet connection?
> 
> Thanks


Du will tell you your area is not ready for service and will do nothing; you need to make an official complaint to force them to take an action; I suffered for 10 days without service till they came and connected it.

Good luck...


----------



## True Blue

^^From AED1.71M for a low floor Sheikh Zayed Road view :nuts:

I can assure you also that there is no way that apartment is 1,287ft2 My Dorrabay 2 bed is 1382ft2 and has much more living space and a bigger balcony. If the car park space isn't included then the 5% tolerance is. It's not clear from the pictures but there doesn't seem to be any built in storage space either.

I note also that they have tried to avoid using grid ceilings. I spoke to a guy who ran a maintenance company and he told me he gets calls to go to apartments where the owners have removed the grid ceilings and fitted gyproc ceilings. There is a leak or a water cylinder needs to be replaced and there is not enough room to get at the problem through the little access hatches provided. The whole lot ends up getting ripped down to access the problem, or because it is water damaged and needs to be redone anyway. Water resistant grid ceilings are not pretty but are a necessary evil in bathrooms and kitchens.


----------



## DubaiDesert

Hi guys. I received last month the keys of my 3br at JH. It does not include any appliances. Before I go back to Nakheel, I would like to ask if this is the case with everyone.


----------



## Ravi123

*CRW Update*

Got the following reply on July 1st. from CRW:

*We are nearly to finish home orientation for Med. Building. We expecting to give keys to the Med. Customers by August,2013*
Bishara Hemed
Real Estate Sales consultant
Dubai Sports City


----------



## Freestyler

GBP is not overvalued imo. There is Eurozone issue at the moment so not sure how much growth it is there but after that GBP is will go up against the $.


----------



## True Blue

Report I read made a good case for it being overvalued based on interest rates being below inflation resulting in natural devaluation. There is also a lot of talk about more quantitative easing. QE reduces the value of currency. The final factor was the talking up of the £.


----------



## Flora of Arabia

Hi Tonydubai,

We went for our snagging on our apartment 1/7/13. You get a letter from DSC which lays out the process and tells you what you need to pay.

The snagging is your opportunity to look at the finish, ask questions. 
We saw our apartment and noticed 2 tiles on the bathroom wall were chipped. The agent noted this.
However we could not check plumbing, taps working, lights working, video phone working, AC working as they were still fixing these things which was a shame.
The guy gave us as long as we liked but we had the kids with us!
We said we couldn't do PDC for the managements fee's but he said that was not a problem. He didn't take any money.

There are no white goods. Any car park space will be allocated by the land registry people.

The rest of the place look good and considering it's 4 years late, the style is of today.
We plan on renting it out.

Hope you here about your building soon.


----------



## TerryPop

True Blue said:


> Report I read made a good case for it being overvalued based on interest rates being below inflation resulting in natural devaluation. There is also a lot of talk about more quantitative easing. QE reduces the value of currency. The final factor was the talking up of the £.


This is what is driving London property prices into the stratosphere... its actually cheaper to buy then it was 2 years ago if you are using dollars..


----------



## shotcaller

Does anyone have any idea about how Motor City is faring as a community and from an investment standpoint? There hasn't been a lot of press about the prices and rentals in Green Community and Uptown recently so I'm assuming that it isn't attractive enough from an investment standpoint or it's fallen off everyone's radar


----------



## JeoPardy

Cnbk said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am an owner in 4a sector K, but we haven't even received a handover notice
> May I ask which sector in 4a your villa is in?
> 
> Thanks


I am in 4a sector O

Regards
SA


----------



## Freestyler

True Blue said:


> Report I read made a good case for it being overvalued based on interest rates being below inflation resulting in natural devaluation. There is also a lot of talk about more quantitative easing. QE reduces the value of currency. The final factor was the talking up of the £.


QE is more for the US$ than GBP. But US$ has more demand for as international financial currency. Eurozone is going through recession, and India is expected hit recession next year (or in 2 years). Most of the debt is supposed to be paid in US$ that will increase the price of US$ against other currencies in near term. But once that pass you will see US$ going down against most currencies in the world including EUR and GBP.


----------



## True Blue

Pride comes before fall for overvalued pound

https://www.fidelity.co.uk/investor...?whereParameter=john_authers/overvalued-pound

If the experts believe the £ is overvalued, then perhaps this is a good time to be investing in Dubai using £'s.


----------



## sicbaldi

*GAS*

Hi Anyone with contact details of a 'gas' specialist, please? 
The gas alarm system goes off and I need someone to take a look at it.

Thanks in advance


----------



## ashram8

there was no official request from ACI to continue paying any thing extra. i paid already 75% and waited for any further insturcions but nothing came.


----------



## JVSjlt

*Desert Rose*

some rumour,settlement of dispute between partners, hopefully they will return to Dubai to recommence project in few months


----------



## ejd

that's a positive news .. this news is going on for some months now , would happen..only if and would and can khaldoun lands in dubai !


----------



## sicbaldi

All,
who do you contact for maintenance, please? The contact person I had for Nakheel is not answer the phone anylonger. 
(Especially I need somebody to look after the Gas alarm).

Thanks


----------



## nirajdisha

What is Current Rate Going on in DUBAI MARINA ???


----------



## cguria

nirajdisha said:


> What is Current Rate Going on in DUBAI MARINA ???


Depends on building, floor, views, number of bedrooms, size.
Are you referring to sale or rental?


----------



## Towers3

Sid said:


> In the case of Torch, Select did the OQOOD registration @3000AED.


Is it the same price for every project and for that fee you just get a cancellation email or regular updates?


----------



## drmadar

I was at site on 23/7/13. No construction yet. I was informed that few potential buyers had visited the site and in September work may resume if a deal is struck with them. Let us hope for the best. For the sceptics who have not paid their 80% as yet may face serious problems if a deal is struck with the new buyers. This project will complete , be it late but it will be 
In Shaa' Allah


----------



## briskavenue

thanks


----------



## Evelev

Hi, does anyone know when the handover for the 4B Sector from JPK3VL 01-029 will be?


----------



## m_nasef

sicbaldi said:


> All,
> who do you contact for maintenance, please? The contact person I had for Nakheel is not answer the phone anylonger.
> (Especially I need somebody to look after the Gas alarm).
> 
> Thanks


You need to call Nakheel call center and they will send the contractor to check it.


----------



## Finality

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> I solved the problem with drainage by removing the grill covering the discharge outlet. Doesn't look very nice now but it works.
> 
> Call Nakheel for garage remote controls.
> 
> Anyone else thinking the street lighting in the neighborhood is too bright, like a sports stadium ! And in the the end we will be paying for the communal electricity charges. The yearly maintenance charges for a 5000 sqft villa in Jumeirah Islands are AED23000, perhaps a guide for JP ?


I spoke to Mohammed Rizaq (sp?) he said service charges would be 0.75/sqft with a sinking fund. There is no security and the greenspace/lakes are no where near as much as in Jumeirah Islands.


----------



## JPResi

Dear All, 
We have learnt last week during snagging of our Jumeirah Park sector 6 property that the contractor has used a non-approved filler foam for closing horizontal and vertical risers. This foam is not fire retardant. Basically during a kitchen fire this foam would burn and set off poisonous fumes, which might kill you before the fire burns down the house. The use of these filler foams is illegal in the UAE. 
Worthwhile checking behind your ceiling panels and see what is hidden there.
Good luck.


----------



## AW.

JPResi said:


> Dear All,
> We have learnt last week during snagging of our Jumeirah Park sector 6 property that the contractor has used a non-approved filler foam for closing horizontal and vertical risers. This foam is not fire retardant. Basically during a kitchen fire this foam would burn and set off poisonous fumes, which might kill you before the fire burns down the house. The use of these filler foams is illegal in the UAE.
> Worthwhile checking behind your ceiling panels and see what is hidden there.
> Good luck.


Did you report it to nakheel? Can we do something about it? Do you have any evidence? Please advise.


----------



## shah100

Hi Every Body

I have paid for three town houses 30% approx 2.1 m to this developer. I don't want to loose . If the RERA law in Dubai was fair developer could not delay project for 5 years. I will blame RERA and Developer. If you don't pay once developer finished up to 60%. You will get the cancellation letter and loose all your hard earn money. According to the current real estate position in Dubai best thing not to loose ur unit prices are going up in future sell your property recover your money. We cant bring 5 years back. Think for the future.

Regards,

Shah


----------



## haseeb_eng

Abo Osama, i am sure you must be having a penalty clause in your contract like everybody else i.e. if the project is not handed over on time(2014) the developer will pay a certain percentage as a penalty on monthly basis.

Whenever you are doing a payment just ensure that you get the invoice of your payment whether it's in Saqran's or Masah's bank account.(applies for all properties in Dubai)


----------



## s.y

Hi Guys, has anyone from PIM time not been able to register their unit/units. I have been trying to register my unit through the Land department but have been told that they cannot find my name for the payments in the trust account even though I have evidence of my payments. Has anyone experienced the same and know what to do. thank you


----------



## Finality

JPResi said:


> Dear All,
> We have learnt last week during snagging of our Jumeirah Park sector 6 property that the contractor has used a non-approved filler foam for closing horizontal and vertical risers. This foam is not fire retardant. Basically during a kitchen fire this foam would burn and set off poisonous fumes, which might kill you before the fire burns down the house. The use of these filler foams is illegal in the UAE.
> Worthwhile checking behind your ceiling panels and see what is hidden there.
> Good luck.


Yes please provide more details! How can we check if the foam is illegal? I had snag & inspect do the inspection for me but they didn't mention anything!


----------



## Wac

Hi s.y; I am in the same situation. Al Masah is insisting to buy another unit as my original unit has been sold by them to someone else. 
I'm outside UAE and don't know when and how to approach them. I'm waiting for right time (near completion of the project) to raise this issue as I'm not sure even if I buy another unit, when they will be able to complete the project.


----------



## Spurs

Shah100 sound like you have already lost money in Dubai and now you are throwing good money after bad or you work for royal estates. I'd guess the latter which is a lame why of getting people to continue to pay!

May I surggest instead you approach us investors with a reasonable consolidation package an lets all walk away from this with some dignity.


----------



## s.y

Wac said:


> Hi s.y; I am in the same situation. Al Masah is insisting to buy another unit as my original unit has been sold by them to someone else.
> I'm outside UAE and don't know when and how to approach them. I'm waiting for right time (near completion of the project) to raise this issue as I'm not sure even if I buy another unit, when they will be able to complete the project.


I dont live in Dubai but went to Dubai in April to present my documents to the Land department and they were supposed to investigate and register my unit but now saying there is no record of my payments into the account. 
Al masah wanted me to give up my orginal unit as well and buy another unit but I told them no that is why I went to the land department to get them to register my unit which now they came up with that there is no record of my money. I will be going to Dubai soon. s.y


----------



## ummbutti

http://wam.ae/servlet/Satellite?c=W...yout&parent=Collection&parentid=1135099399983

Decree sets up committee for liquidation of cancelled property projects in Dubai 

2013-07-29 21:29:28
Dubai, 29 July 2013 (WAM) - In his capacity as the Ruler of Dubai, UAE Vice President and Prime Minister His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum has issued Decree No. (21) of 2013 setting up a special legal committee for the liquidation of cancelled property projects in the emirate of Dubai and the settlement of rights disputes related to such projects.

Article three of Decree No. (21) of 2013 stipulates that all resolutions and decisions issued by the special legal committee are final and not subject to appeal. Dubai Courts will be tasked with the implementation of such resolutions and decisions.

The special legal committee is tasked with the settlement of disputes between property developers and investors over cancelled projects in addition to the liquidation of projects that have been decisively cancelled by the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) as per Law No. (13) of 2008 and its regulations. The settlement of rights disputes, grievances and complaints will be carried out noting that settlement fees will be deducted.

In order for the special legal committee to carry out its duties, it is entitled to appoint specialists and consultants. Auditors are to be appointed on the expense of the property developer to carefully examine the financial status, cash transfers and deposits related to the cancelled projects in question. The committee has the right to take actions and issue decisions to guarantee the rights of those who have purchased property that fall into this category.

As per article three of decree, neither Dubai Courts nor Dubai International Financial Centre Courts will accept appeals or cases that fall under the specialty of the aforementioned committee. Such complaints, cases or appeals will therefore be transferred to the special legal committee set up as per the decree.

The decree halts the implementation of relevant verdicts and resolutions issued by all courts in the emirate of Dubai - including the Dubai International Financial Centre Courts - which fall under the specialty of the special legal committee.

The decree is effective from its date of issuance and shall be published in the official gazette.

In his capacity as the Ruler of Dubai, UAE Vice President and Prime Minister His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum has issued decision No. (9) of 2013 restructuring the Emirates Institution for Advanced Science and Technology (EIAST) Board of Directors.

The decision names Hamad Obaid Al Shaikh Al Mansouri as Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Emirates Institution for Advanced Science and Technology and Yousef Hamad Ahmed Al Shaibani as Deputy Chairman. 

Other members of the board include Mansour Abdullah Mohammed Bastaki, Mohammed Saif Al Meqbali and Mansour Jumma Bu Aseibah.

The decision is effective from its date of issuance and shall be published in the official gazette.

WAM/MAB


----------



## Richard Head

Sounds positive. But then so did RERA when it was first launched. Reserving judgement for the time being..........

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/general/dubai-realty-buyers-to-get-cash-back-1.1214727


----------



## camelrider

hey guys n gals check this out;

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/general/real-estate-investors-developers-hail-formation-of-judicial-panel-1.1215047

At d same time, read well between d lines ->>> *“Delayed projects will not be handled by the new committee since they have not been officially scrapped.”*

So I ask, "*is a delay of over 4 years sufficient to have d project scrapped*" ??? 

Same sh!t - different smell !!


----------



## Viv

agod said:


> In 2008 I bought a copy of a book called the Dubai Property Law Guide. Al.


Snap - I'm sure I bought the same one. Is it the one with the goose / golden egg on the front cover? Anyway, my biggest mistake was to employ the services of an international lawyer..ouch! This guy would charge me for the air that I breathed if he could. In fact, I could only speak to his admin staff and would be charged if I spoke to him directly.

I got very little info from him except periodic invoices (this is going back to 2006) - most of the info could be found on the internet anyway..and what did it all amount to...absolutely nothing. This lawyer or indeed any lawyer in the Uk could do nothing about any covenants of the property contract between me and the developer. What a waste of money .. but hey, I was being far too cautious (I was a mortgage underwriter until 2008 hence my reservation).

Looking back, could you have purchased a property anywhere in the world as easy as in Dubai, 10% deposit + signature and thank you v much?!!


----------



## camelrider

For those who can't open d link...... here's d text-info;

Real estate: Investors, developers hail formation of judicial panel
All stakeholders will benefit from the liquidation and settlement
By Zaher Bitar, Senior Reporter and Sarah Algethami, Staff ReporterPublished: 17:59 July 30, 2013Gulf News
Share on facebookShare on twitterShare on emailShare on printMore Sharing Services14
Dubai: The announcement of a judicial committee to oversee the liquidation of cancelled real estate projects in Dubai is good news for investors.
The announcement came on Monday by His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai.
The committee will offer settlements after the liquidation expenses are deducted.
Experts and businesses remarked that all stakeholders in the real estate market will benefit from the liquidation and settlement of the cancelled projects in the market. They describe this initiative as an essential to clean up the market.
Several mega-projects across Dubai such as Nakheel’s Palm Deira, Palm Jebel Ali and the World, were sold to investors but later stalled.
Sultan Bin Butti Bin Mejrin, Director General of the Dubai Land Department, said that only projects that has been cancelled officially will come under the purview of liquidation. “Delayed projects will not be handled by the new committee since they have not been officially scrapped.”
Experts estimate the number of cancelled projects in the range of 60 to 70. Bin Mejrin said that the crash in the UAE property market during the financial crisis in 2009 and 2010, forced developers to shelve or scrap number of projects.
“The department has cancelled many real estate projects that failed to fulfill the contract. However, the cancellations were made after giving investors three notices with six month period each,” said Bin Mejrin. He said some developers who had valid excuses were given more time.
The Land Department gives developers 60 days grace period to pay back the investors. If developers failed to pay the case will be sent to the assigned committee at the Dubai Courts to review and take action.
Hani Al Hamli, Secretary General of the Dubai Economic Council, said: “This initiative is of great importance for Dubai from both economic and legal perspectives. The decree would sustain the construction and real estate sectors in Dubai. The two sectors account about 20 per cent of Dubai’s GDP.”
Property consultants said investors that have lost funds from cancelled projects will benefit greatly from the judicial panel.
“It will benefit any investor that has invested money in a project and has not received compensation for the loss of investments. It will create a forum for investors and developers to come to an agreement on the compensation for cancelled projects,” said Mat Green, head of research for the UAE at CBRE Middle East.
Hamsa Shetty, an investor from Ajman, said the panel will help investors “in spite of liquidation charges.”
“It is great news for people who have been waiting for their money,” she added.
However, Craig Plumb, head of research at Jones Lang LaSalle for Mena, said although the committee is meant to speed up and simply the process of liquidation as there is one panel to hear all of the disputes, it “would involve delays.”
Plumb explained that those that have previously taken their matter to the courts “now have to stop and go to this new panel and start all over again.”
Meanwhile, the committee will help boost investments in Dubai and strengthen confidence in the market.
“It’s going to improve confidence of the regulation of the market. If projects have not gone ahead there is a recourse for them — that sends a message that the market is starting to mature, and issues are starting to be looked at,” Green said.
Simon Gray, managing director at Chesterton International for Mena, said with this panel, “Dubai will demonstrate to the business community that it can put itself in order and bring in regulation and guidelines to encourage investments.”
According to Plumb, the committee could encourage investors that have lost funds from cancelled projects to invest again after being compensated.
“They will be more positive about investing in the future,” he said.
While it is unclear which properties will be overseen by the committee, Green assumes these “would be projects that haven’t started construction.”
“I think partly developed projects would be difficult for compensation due to funds been spent,” he added.
Gray said that the panel will “tackle whole blocks of residential and commercial buildings that have been cancelled.”
Additionally, Plumb said there is more information that needs to be clarified in order to know if the committee will be impactful. “We don’t know the time frame over which this body will release its results, whether it’s published or not,” he said, adding that the publication of results will increase confidence in the market as “investors would have more clarity on what’s cancelled and what’s not.”
Mohannad Al Wadiya, managing director of Harbor Real Estate, said: This initiative goes in line with all effects to regulate and set up healthy infrastructure for real estate industry. “All stakeholders including buyers, sellers and tenants will benefit from this initiative. Moreover, this move will be add value to Dubai reputation.”


----------



## camelrider

& this ALSO; http://gulfnews.com/business/property/general/dubai-sets-up-judicial-committee-to-liquidate-cancelled-projects-1.1214735

For those who can't open d link...... here's d text-info;


Dubai: His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai on Monday issued a decree to set up a judicial committee to liquidate cancelled real estate projects in Dubai.
The committee will provide settlements after the liquidation expenses are deducted. It will also be tasked with resolving grievances, operational procedures or other issues related to scrapped projects.
The committee’s decisions and rulings will be carried out through Dubai Courts. All rulings issued by the committee will be final and cannot be appealed.
Sultan Bin Butti Bin Mejrin, Director General of the Dubai Land Department, told Gulf News that all the cancelled real estate projects will be liquidated by 2015. “The committee will present a fast track for investors to solve their problem with developer who are not able to continue their project,” he added.
“The main role of this committee is to refund the money to investors by selling the developers’ assets in auction or through the money available from the deposits in escrow account.”
The committee will not only ensure protection of investors’ rights but will also save them time and energy as they need not approach different courts to hold the developers accountable.
Through this committee, the court will take up cancelled projects one by one and resolve outstanding issues through a single-window system whatever the number of investors and will get their rights back, Bin Mejrin said.
As per the decree, the committee is permitted to request the services of consultants, auditors and experts to audit the financial position of various cancelled projects. The developers concerned will bear all expenses for these services and consultations. Auditors and consultants will also verify the amount paid by the buyers to the developers, money deposited in the developer’s escrow account for the concerned project, as well as funds used in project operations.
Article No 3 of the decree forbids Dubai Courts and Dubai International Financial Centre courts from looking into any claims that now fall within the purview of the committee. Any claims or complaints submitted to these courts prior to the issuance of the decree will now be referred to the committee.
While the Land Department was able to solve most of the disputes between developers and investors, the cancelled projects represent those that fell through during the financial crisis, he said. “A number of developers have failed to complete their projects due to the financial crisis. Thus, special action should be made to liquefy these projects and help the investors who gave up in that situation.”
The committee will work without imposing any charges on investors, he said.
Property anlysts have welcomed the new committee.
The move is expected to encourage more investments in the Dubai property market, according to Chiheb Bin Mahmoud, Executive Vice-President and Head of Hotel Advisory for the Middle East and Africa at Jones Lang LaSalle. “It will improve visibility and transparency, and pave the way for the market to enter into a new phase of growth with stronger mechanisms and tools to ensure better protection and better functioning,” he said.
With tighter regulations being implemented, the Dubai property market could see more long-term investments and increased buying from end-users, said Mat Green, head of research for the UAE at CBRE Middle East. “One of the issues is that investors look at the Dubai property market with a short-term view. It would be ideal to see investments for the long-term,” he said.
Green added that the introduction of the legal team is a positive sign for the Dubai market. “Regulations being tightened show that the market is becoming more mature and developing,” he said.


----------



## Spurs

My apartment is not getting built so is that scrapped???


----------



## agod

Mine has the Scales of Justice on the front, that’s a laugh. It from the UAE Real Times, Property Law Guide.

I keep telling Forumers that Lawyers are a complete waste of Time, I saw an English Group that had set up out here, and have you noticed they call themselves Legal Advisors, they had no idea, and couldn’t get it into their head that unless you where a Local Lawyer, and knew the ropes, and connections, you have no chance of winning anything, they tried to flog me a New UAE Will, I had seen the Stories related to Bank Accounts being Frozen Etc, I asked the Bank who confirmed that no your account would not be frozen, and asking around found out that your UK will, will apply out here, save me putting everything into a Company with in The Free zone, or an offshore set-up.

I think the USA was pretty good for buying, back in 2003 I put down 5% for a $580.000 home, it was built in 9 Months, and the Mortgage was a 30 year one that anybody could have had, even a 80 Year old, not much checking went on, and the Americans have a neat way of relieving you of your Money, everything is charged for, right down to having a few copies made, it was as we now know a really crappy one, but at the time who cared.

I think Dubai, and a few developers that gave the Long Payment Plan, with No Credit Checks, was the way to go, unfortunately, when the Equity went out of the properties they were left holding the Baby, hence the Addendums they have introduced.

Al.


----------



## Viv

agod said:


> I think the USA was pretty good for buying, back in 2003 I put down 5% for a $580.000 home, it was built in 9 Months, and the Mortgage was a 30 year one that anybody could have had, even a 80 Year old, not much checking went on, and the Americans have a neat way of relieving you of your Money, everything is charged for, right down to having a few copies made, it was as we now know a really crappy one, but at the time who cared. Al.


Yeah - Lets not forget a large portion of blame (IMO) must go to the good old Yanks and their toxic financial contagion (sub prime lending, securitization of bonds nobody knew anything which circulated from organisation to organisation until 'the music stopped' and someone was left holding the crap etc etc) - starting by the issue of their NINJA mortgages ..Yes NINJA mortgages - no income, no job applications back in the early 'naughties' - and look where we are know! (of course, many others are to blame also).


----------



## yabani

worried4 said:


> Does anyone know when the hotel will open? IFA said after Ramadaan. But we have not received the one month notice.:bash:


Yes, I just asked them last week, they said with Confidence: SEPTEMBER!


----------



## worried4

*September 2013*



yabani said:


> Yes, I just asked them last week, they said with Confidence: SEPTEMBER!


2013 or ???????:cheers:


----------



## JuG24

Can anyone give me some guidance on landscaping. We are going to be renting out the villa and the agent tells me as the owner i need to pay 20k to 50k AED for landscaping. 

For one when we bought it, the market norm was the landscaping was the tenants responsibility. I feel the agent is trying this on. 

For the second it is only a 3 bed small with no pool so i cant see how she gets 20k to 50k as a reasonable budget. 

Any guidance would be appreciated. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## boekhold

Does anybody know how many parking spaces you get for one of the 3BR+M with the big L shaped balcony (1600+sqft suite area / 1900+sqft total area)?

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## v8_

Expert Advice / Opinions Requried:

I'm not following Dubai property market for last 7-8 months. What are the current market signs, I'm considering to buy 1-BHK in JBR. 
Is it safe to invest in dubai as of today or there are any risks buying property at relatively high price. (aed 1,300 /sqf)

Please comment. Thanks


----------



## AW.

boekhold said:


> Does anybody know how many parking spaces you get for one of the 3BR+M with the big L shaped balcony (1600+sqft suite area / 1900+sqft total area)?
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 2


Two parkings..


----------



## myselfme&I

HI AW. Have you managed to get the keys to your villa? I did my snagging last week.


----------



## yabani

worried4 said:


> 2013 or ???????:cheers:


Looool, yeah 2013.
They are all ready, and relaxed.


----------



## Rob Timpie

Halfway this movie you can see CT4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NkVw9jTK10&feature=youtu.be 
Although nothing is happening again Memon is begging for payments...


----------



## VR6

Ok it sounds promising, but how does it work and what exactly do we need to do to get our money back?


----------



## simo68

*Sport city update*

Hi All,

Do you have any update about this development? Has been completed or money refunded to the investors.

Please let me know.

Regards

Simon


----------



## Green Hornet

Dubai_Steve said:


> The economy and the property market are now recovering, but so strongly that the IMF worries another bubble could form
> 
> 
> 
> Harald Finger, IMF mission chief to the United Arab Emirates, noted that by one commercial bank’s estimate, listed Dubai property prices soared 35 per cent from a year ago in June.




Happy days are back ! :cheers::cheers::cheers:


----------



## Finality

Anyone know if we can change the front door and the metal gates without Nakheel permission?


----------



## Towers3

Rob Timpie said:


> Halfway this movie you can see CT4.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NkVw9jTK10&feature=youtu.be
> Although nothing is happening again Memon is begging for payments...


Cheers for the info...

I thought u had a new payment plan? Join our facebook investor group please. Investors from all CT projects except CT4. Please keep posting info if not.


----------



## Al shali

JuG24 said:


> Can anyone give me some guidance on landscaping. We are going to be renting out the villa and the agent tells me as the owner i need to pay 20k to 50k AED for landscaping.
> 
> For one when we bought it, the market norm was the landscaping was the tenants responsibility. I feel the agent is trying this on.
> 
> For the second it is only a 3 bed small with no pool so i cant see how she gets 20k to 50k as a reasonable budget.
> 
> Any guidance would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Landscaping is optional but you would obviously face competition from other landlords who have completed the landscaping. The quoted price sounds reasonable for a small 3 bed. Perhaps try go 50-50 with tenant on the landscaping cost ?


----------



## qronfla

I have made the last payment, and they sent me, the original reciet with out any sign, can this be valid?
Because, I am afraid, that when some body ask me, for the original reciets, and be with out a sign, may be not accept it.
Can some body, can help me, in this matter, and give me Answer?
Thank You.


----------



## noir-dresses

qronfla said:


> I have made the last payment, and they sent me, the original reciet with out any sign, can this be valid?
> Because, I am afraid, that when some body ask me, for the original reciets, and be with out a sign, may be not accept it.
> Can some body, can help me, in this matter, and give me Answer?
> Thank You.


Don't worry because they can always use the receipt to trace the money being deposited to they're bank account.


----------



## qronfla

Thank you, Dear NOIR_DRESSES,
Because, I was really worried, that recite, with out Sign means Nothing.
But you is telling me, that I don't have to worry, because still with the recite can check that the money, being deposited in their Bank Account.
Thanks a lot.


----------



## Salim

MARWAN BIN GHULAITA ([email protected])
may know the answer. I have sent him an email yesterday.


----------



## Amanda-

*Al Attar Project 2050!*

It is safe to buy in Dubai as long as you buy from developers such as Emaar. Avoid developers which have never delivered on their promises. 

We purchased from Al Attar Properties in 2006. From what we know about this developer, they did not intend to complete any of their project from the beginning. Their promise was to build 7 towers and one thousand townhouses. However, after eight years they delivered none. We were told that Al Attar is simply buying time while transferring most of the investors money transferred to various bank accounts abroad (as Escrow account came into effect in 2008 long after AL Attar Properties sold most of their off plan projects). The small remaining funs in UAE is in the joint LLC account with his wife!
The newly released book about Al Attar Properties discloses all these details in chapters called: Money pouring from heaven & Devil in the Detail". 

The book is written by Maha Al Fahim (search Maha Al Fahim book).


----------



## montranieri

*rental renewal and mynagency unclear!*

Good morning,
i have given last year full power of attorney to a local agency to rent my apartment in Dubai Marina. The flat was rented last september. This year at the begiining of july i asked my agency to know if the tenant would lioe to renew the comtract but the agency told me that the tenant will let us know only at the beginning of September (the contract expires on september 19). i asked to the agency why so late since contract say differently but agency says this is common ractice in Dubai and even if tenant confirm now the willing to stay, he can always change his mind later on, that's why it is useless to ask too much innadvance. Is this true? As you understand if the tenant at the last minute decide to leave , i will find the flat empty for a while before findingna new tenant! 
Many thanks for your advices!!!


----------



## Pleth

montranieri said:


> Good morning,
> i have given last year full power of attorney to a local agency to rent my apartment in Dubai Marina. The flat was rented last september. This year at the begiining of july i asked my agency to know if the tenant would lioe to renew the comtract but the agency told me that the tenant will let us know only at the beginning of September (the contract expires on september 19). i asked to the agency why so late since contract say differently but agency says this is common ractice in Dubai and even if tenant confirm now the willing to stay, he can always change his mind later on, that's why it is useless to ask too much innadvance. Is this true? As you understand if the tenant at the last minute decide to leave , i will find the flat empty for a while before findingna new tenant!
> Many thanks for your advices!!!


Read your contract. Also the backside of it if there is a backside.
In my contract it is clearly written on the backside.


----------



## Salim

dubaimarina2008 said:


> I hope we will know more soon.


RERA site exhibit the tower on hold. I will post his reply if I get it.


----------



## True Blue

^^Your problem is that you gave full power of attorney to your agent, so it then becomes their discretion how they handle the tenant.

I always contact the tenant 3 months prior to the end of the lease and ask if they intend to renew. I also advise if the rent will remain the same price or if I will be requesting an increase. Despite what it says in the contract, I have had tenants who do not make a decision until the last moment. On a few occasions, the tenants seemed to interpret my persistence as desperation and asked for a discount. So perhaps your agent has been down that road also and believes the best tactic is to say nothing and wait until a few weeks before expiration, contact the tenant and say; 

"As you have not provided the required notification of your intention to renew, please prepare to vacate the premises in a clean and tidy condition with all repairs carried out prior to the expiry of the tenancy". That normally gets a response. 

What some tenants fail to realise is that if they don't clean and repair/repaint during the tenancy, then the landlord has the right to charge a few days extra rent to allow sufficient time for the works to be carried out. The recommendation is that tenants should always vacate a few days early to ensure that they have enough time to spruce the apartment back up to the same condition they received it in.


----------



## montranieri

True Blue said:


> ^^Your problem is that you gave full power of attorney to your agent, so it then becomes their discretion how they handle the tenant.
> 
> I always contact the tenant 3 months prior to the end of the lease and ask if they intend to renew. I also advise if the rent will remain the same price or if I will be requesting an increase. Despite what it says in the contract, I have had tenants who do not make a decision until the last moment. On a few occasions, the tenants seemed to interpret my persistence as desperation and asked for a discount. So perhaps your agent has been down that road also and believes the best tactic is to say nothing and wait until a few weeks before expiration, contact the tenant and say;
> 
> "As you have not provided the required notification of your intention to renew, please prepare to vacate the premises in a clean and tidy condition with all repairs carried out prior to the expiry of the tenancy". That normally gets a response.
> 
> What some tenants fail to realise is that if they don't clean and repair/repaint during the tenancy, then the landlord has the right to charge a few days extra rent to allow sufficient time for the works to be carried out. The recommendation is that tenants should always vacate a few days early to ensure that they have enough time to spruce the apartment back up to the same condition they received it in.


Thanks True Blue! I had not too much choice i belive other than appointing an agent ( which costs a lot as well) since i left Dubai last year after 9 fantastic years in the UAE!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Pleth said:


> In my contract it is clearly written on the backside.


Probably the best place to write most contracts in Dubai.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> So perhaps your agent has been down that road also and believes the best tactic is to say nothing and wait until a few weeks before expiration, contact the tenant and say;
> 
> "As you have not provided the required notification of your intention to renew, please prepare to vacate the premises in a clean and tidy condition with all repairs carried out prior to the expiry of the tenancy". That normally gets a response.


Good idea, too bad the rental agents acting on the landlords behalf are not that helpful.


----------



## wissam11

Dear all,
I have decided to start a bombardment campaign of RERA and Dubailand. Starting with emails, and later next week, when they all come back from holidays, by telephone.
Most of you were copied on the email below, please keep us all copied on any additional emails, or any email addresses / telephone contacts in RERA, Dubai Land, so we can continue this relentless approach. 
I hope by this action, they will finally take actions to cancel the project (which is the first step)
The new law mentioned above by ummbutti is the second

From: Wissam Iknainish (RASO) 
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 11:06 AM
To: '[email protected]'; '[email protected]'; '[email protected]'; '[email protected]'; '[email protected]'; '[email protected]'
Cc: 'Naji Bardawil'; 'To: Maik Müller'; 'Cc: Dana Dikanbayeva'; 'Umm Butti'; 'Dheeraj Anil and Sunil Relwani'; 'Doctor Mira'; 'Sumender Reddy'; 'Sanjay Batheja'; 'David Brooke-Smith'; 'Nicod'; 'Waqar Cheema'; '[email protected]'; 'Nabeel Chowdhari'; '[email protected]'; '[email protected]'; '[email protected]'
Subject: Lawns V project JVS

Dears Dubailand / Rera,
Assalamalikum and ramdan kareem and happy eid.

Please tell me until when you will keep Lawns V project hanging in Limbo.
No construction is going on, and handover delay of more than 3 years is really ridiculous
The developer (DEC) does not answer our questions, does not return money and will not finish the construction
Please, tell me what is fair here ?

I am writing to all the addresses I know in Dubailand and Rera, as I have been writing since 2011 and no action has been taken, not even a reply.
If you are not the proper authority to address this issue to, please advise who is. 

Regards
Wissam


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Wissam Iknainish 
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> 
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2011 10:57 AM
Subject: Lawns V project JVS


Dear Doaa,
Ramadan Karrem.
Can you please help with the below.

There is a project called Lawns 5 in Jumeirah Village South that has been on hold for the last 3 years. The developer Dheeraj East Coast has stopped answering any questions about this project. Any contact with them now seems to lead to a standard company line "wait".
We have been waiting since 2007. Waiting and paying!
I understand that there was a world crisis and most of the projects are in trouble, but isn't this what RERA is for. To protect the investors as well. Why is it that only the developers are protected in this case.
No action from RERA to cancel the project.
Now DEC seem to have moved away from this project. I have gone to the site, and their name has been removed from all the signs.
It seems they have also merged Lawns 4 and Lawns 5 into one plot.
So what now ? What about our 70 page contracts that we had to sign in duplicate. The contract that states that if the developer fails to deliver this project in time (3 years ago), they must return all the money.
Do these contracts mean nothing anymore.
I have called many times to RERA regarding this. And the answer is always "call back later".
Do you have any idea what is happening ?
Are we still getting these units ?
Are they going to be delivered sometime this decade ?
Are they going to be in any standard or condition that was stated in the contract ?
Is the contract valid ?
Can we get our money (some of it at least, if not all)
What does RERA do exactly ?

Regards
Wissam


----------



## fightback

*STILL NO REPLY*

Still no reply from SP re the signatures being legal or not in Dubai Court by Mark Stott on Agreements signed for Torch. Requested POA document.

Will keep you informed.hno:


----------



## usamakhalid

*expo 2020*

does any one can tell me what would be the impact of expo 2020 on real estate prices if dubai wins in november 2013 as i heard 350000 jobs will be created because of that ?


----------



## rabhatia1

*Progress Update*

Guys, I'm an investor in multiple units at D1. Spoke with the sales agent last week and he said the company is targeting completion in May - June 2014. Does anyone else have any updates on if this is true? Also, I'm a little concerned with the rate of development in the surrounding culture village. Any updates on when things are going to start moving here?


----------



## s.y

*Latest*

They have stopped the construction but they are bringing some other project developer in to help them which they might start in the next couple of months. Almasah has to finish the projec in the next 2 years if they couldn't deliver then the land department will take over so this is their last chance.


----------



## santori

arn22340 said:


> I have recently moved in to JP and I am struggling to get information from Du about TV, Internet and phone availability. Can anyone on here help?
> 
> I am in O3VS which i think is in Sector 5
> 
> 
> Thanks


If you are already a Du customer in another location, you can call them, mention your existing account and then log an email request to check on service availability in your part of JP citing a move to the area. They will send you an automated message that they have received your request. Once that happens, you can then pester them with the request number and ask them to give you a definitive response....either that the area of JP you are in is still without service or that your area is now ready for service. I'm in sector P (package 5A) and I got my handover in mid-June, didn't have any Du connection for the first 3 weeks and then finally in the beginning of July got a notification from Du that my area was ready for service. It basically seems to be a bit of potluck so far......so good luck.


----------



## usamakhalid

if any 1 intrusted to sell a studio and 1 bedroom appartment in fortunato plz email me the details at [email protected]


----------



## usamakhalid

*intrusted in buying 2 bed*



ashrafj said:


> I received e-mail from ishraqah and they mention that Nakhil is the reason as they ask for a lot of approval
> I have 2 BR for sale anyone interested


plz send me the details at [email protected] intrusted in your 2 bed


----------



## usamakhalid

if any one intrusted to rent there 1 or 2 bed appartment in seasons community please send me the details at [email protected]


----------



## usamakhalid

if any one intrusted to sale there 1 or 2 bed appartment in seasons community 
please send me the details at [email protected]


----------



## Green Hornet

True Blue said:


> ^^ "Legally", prove they are breaking the law. Or just offer them some cash to go early!


Doesn't make sense to offer them cash in order to make cash.

In other words theres nothing you can do.

Rent caps suck.


----------



## Green Hornet

Richard Head said:


> Clearly it would be a significant boost for the UAE economy, and it's reasonable to expect that any increase in the rate of population growth associated to this should logically have a positive impact on real estate values, both sale and rental. Quantifying it though, well the best you will get is guesswork and speculation. I'm not even going to attempt it but for sure I would consider Dubai real estate a "hold" for now. Anyone selling now might regret it later if UAE does get the expo decision.


Can expo really have such a big impact? Is this what has happened with other cities?

Surely anyone selling now even without Expo would regret it as prices are rising again?


----------



## jasper1000

http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/english/eServices/PindicatorsEN.aspx


Click on report


----------



## Kristina Johnson

Hi. I am new here but I see there haven't been any posts recently. I have purchased a unit in Bldg 1 but have not received neither the unit nor the refund.

I am curious to see what success others had with Al Manal. Have anyone taken legal action against them?


----------



## Flora of Arabia

Hello tony of dubai, I agree was a bit disappointed that apartment was not 'ready to show' I took some pics I will try and upload them. By no electrics I mean you could not check video phone,bedroom lights, air conditioning system, toilet flushing Etc much the same as you would expect from a new build in the uk. We noted 2 chipped tiles and when I asked about the car park space I was told by Amir KZhan that this would be allocated by the land registry peeps. Not clear if that was land registry to DSC to us or not. 
WE have e-mailed them and they are due to get back to us with handover date.

I feel your frustration, since we purchased off plan I have had 4 jobs, 2 kids and 1 house move....lets hope it's worth it.


----------



## sgn7200

jasper1000 said:


> http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/english/eServices/PindicatorsEN.aspx
> 
> 
> Click on report


Have looked at above link and it does prove what I said above i.e. almost all of your (I mean DEC) projects are "in a limbo state". What would you say to that to console us, the investors in DEC projects. Where would you like us to look for a ray of hope.


----------



## Akasha

Just two chipped tiles Flora? You were lucky, my snag list was huge. Lots of regrouting required - basically everything needed regrouting and sealing. Windows didn't lock, chipped tiles, a few cracks. All the seals in the cupboards 'looked' ok but was impossible to check obviously without water being on.

I reckon we'll be in for a little wait yet.


----------



## m-man

*Thousands pack up for big move to Abu Dhabi as deadline looms*



> ABU DHABI // Packed and ready to go, Abu Dhabi government employees are making final arrangements for the largest-scale move the country has seen.
> 
> For the past 11 months, human resources departments have been working closely with the Executive Council to help employees who have been living in other emirates to resettle in Abu Dhabi. The deadline for the move is September 1.
> 
> Ayesha Al Nuaimi, a human resources manager at an Abu Dhabi government entity, said there was little ambiguity with the decree.
> 
> “We just told them if they want to keep their housing [allowance], they need to move. If they insist on staying in another emirate, they will lose their housing,” she said. “We cannot give them housing if they do not live here.”
> 
> Her organisation has been providing employees with home options in Abu Dhabi and, once they have moved, transport costs.
> 
> They have also committed to providing employees with yearly maintenance in their new homes.
> 
> Emirates Foundation for Youth Development sends employees a newsletter with apartment listings, and has provided corporate rates for furniture moving and car rental.
> 
> Human resources departments have also been consulting with one another to compare ways to help employees.


Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-...-to-abu-dhabi-as-deadline-looms#ixzz2cIsU1It2 
Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook


----------



## jp resident

*GRANIT TOP IN KITCHEN STINKS*

There is a horrible stinking smell (like drainage but its not) that comes from the granit itself above the dishwasher.
Has anyone experienced this ? any solutions ?
thanks


----------



## kamenoff

Hmmm, doesn't sound like nice quality of the finish??


----------



## Akasha

kamenoff said:


> Hmmm, doesn't sound like nice quality of the finish??


The majority of finishing is actually very good. What people are forgetting, is that these buildings have been stood with no windows, open to the elements, no ac in hot, humid weather for MONTHS +++++ on end. All the seals shrink and cement dries out too quickly so it cracks and corodes.


----------



## UAE Investor

Akasha said:


> . All the seals in the cupboards 'looked' ok but was impossible to check obviously without water being on.


What ?


----------



## fightback

*BUYER BEWARE!*



True Blue said:


> ^^Typical Select! Looks feck all like the render. Conning bar stewards;


^^I suppose those who get to see their investments should count themselves
lucky!!! - what a way to do business or should I say 'get conned'?

BUYER BEWARE


----------



## Akasha

UAE Investor said:


> What ?


You need to get on your hands and knees and look inside all the cupboards, especially the ones which have sink plumping in, to make sure all the seals are secure and nothing can leak. Same get on the floor to check the toilet piping is all sealed correctly and nothing is cracked. Should make sure all cupboards are level and fixed properly and all surfaces are sealed - same with doors, door frames. I wonder how many people checked to make sure their 'fire door' entrance door, fitted and sealed properly?

It's the little things. I had a big list of things to check from my construction buddy who does snagging for a living - so many tiny things that most people won't even think about.


----------



## man city fc

Hi Akasha, can you post the list for us all to use?


----------



## Superman_Saqran

Hopefully they will finish the tower before the next property bubble ends


----------



## Akasha

Bascially you need to check EVERYTHING! Seals, grouting, door/window frames, does everything and is sealed like it's meant to be. Check inside cupboards, make sure everything is level. Check around door frames - I found chucks of concrete missing - this goes for the area around and outside the front door also - this is also your fire door - does it have the proper fire seals within the door, does it shut properly etc etc.

A friend who bought a couple of apartments in the Med was never even contacted about snagging and when he called up a couple of weeks ago, he was told handover is December *sigh* - more waiting.


----------



## man city fc

Great thanks - anyone know when snagging period in the Venetian Tower is?


----------



## jp resident

thanks Stevehelent. Maintenance came by and sealed the whole behind the dishwasher. Smell is gone ! They say its the same in every house. Why didnt they do it in the first place ? anyone's guess. But I must say they are great with us. Come quickly everytime.
We got the pool ordered from Pools by Design. Now lets hope the approvals dont take too long.


----------



## jprp

Ugh, the frustration with nakheels service is going to affect my health! U r lucky they neverrrrrrr respond to our maintanence issues and if they do it takes weeeksssss, we r in E sector and stillll no street lights I have called and emailed and no reply, of course once a very rude reply saying all the lights r on which isn't true. Does anyone have a number or email for someone responsible for jumeirah park? I only have [email protected] nakheel.com, nobody replies. I also hope but seriously doubt that they are conducting some sort of pest control throughout the community, as the widespread ant, spider problems etc will never be easy to control even w fumigation within the houses if the community is neglected. Thx to all for additional maintanence contacts!


----------



## Josau

Any thoughts on how a military invasion by the US in Syria would influence the UAE in general and Dubai in particular. Sort of scary to think that the conflict in Syria will become a conflict between US/NATO/Israel against Russia/Iran with UAE, Saudi and most other GCC countries supporting the US?


----------



## manumahdi

*SUR 127*

Hi, I just joined this forum. 

I bought my 2 bedroom Apartment in Summer Cluster in 2008 and was supposed to recieve the apartment by Dec 2009. Now we are in Aug 2013 and I have recieved notification that my apartment is ready for handover. I bought this stupid property at the peak of its rate and now its half the price, and on top of it, i need to pay AED 200K for the interest of the mortgage Amlak paid to them till now. All my efforts to have negotiation with them till now was futile. 

I have seen the remarks of Max12 and Hijer. Any update on the legal route you have taken? Also any news of any of the unfortunate souls who invested money here got some redemption in the form of discount or compensation? 

Appreciate others feedback. The flat is ready for handover it looks like.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The concept of renting and hopping from one apartment to another has become unrealistic for some tenants in Dubai and many are now warming to the idea of owning a home.

Property experts in the UAE have observed a change in attitude towards home ownership and say this shift is driven primarily by rising rents and easier mortgage terms.

Residential rents have been rising recently, owing to the recovery of the real estate market. During the first six months of the year, rental values across Dubai went up by 11.3 per cent.

As a result, more residents are “considering the option of making the transition to property ownership”, according to Faisal Durrani, associate, Cluttons research. “There are a number of drivers for this, primarily favourable lending rates and as a way to avoid being caught out by further advances in rental values across Dubai,” Durrani told Gulf News.

Interest rates on mortgages in Dubai have dropped over the last three to four years from 9 per cent to 4.5 per cent per year. Banks are also offering other incentives to would-be homeowners, such as discounts on processing and valuation fees, and reduced interest rate during the first year.

....

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/more-dubai-tenants-consider-buying-property-1.1224670


----------



## Salim

Salim said:


> Still waiting for the response from DLD.


Here come the response:

B2B tower : is stopped at 31.25% & has been send to Tanmiya committee (in DLD) to handle it.

To protect your right kindly refer to your SPA & you can approach the court or wait for the committee dissection.


----------



## dubaimarina2008

Salim said:


> Here come the response:
> 
> B2B tower : is stopped at 31.25% & has been send to Tanmiya committee (in DLD) to handle it.
> 
> To protect your right kindly refer to your SPA & you can approach the court or wait for the committee dissection.



What is SPA?


----------



## Berliner01

Sales and Purchase Agreement


----------



## jp resident

what spider problems ? you are scaring me...

I've noticed that they have put rat boxes around our street. but this is normal with the new communities. we had that when we moved in teh Springs back in 2004.


----------



## shotcaller

Has anyone received the SPA for the Legacy Nova villas which were launched in June?


----------



## balafa

can you please share the phone number of poolsystems? tx


Stevehelent said:


> We ordered fiberglass pool from co called poolsystems. Too early to recommend but seem good. Approval not there yet. Nakheel takes couple of weeks but loads of bureaucracy. We ordered early July and should get final approval end of this month. Price indication aed85k 8x4 fully installed with heater cooler (plus some approval fees - few thousand)


----------



## sicbaldi

thaji78 said:


> Does somebody have the CD that comes with the handover keys? I picked up mine and almost immediately misplaced it.
> I would appreciate it if someone can upload the CD contents and send me the link to download it. Some of the appliances are so user unfriendly, I still didn't figure out how to set the AC timer nor can I control the garage lights which seem to switch on and off randomly.
> 
> Thanks


 
I've uploaded the content of the Handover CD in SkyDrive.. Please send me an email to [email protected] if you are interested.


----------



## ianthy

Nicarzani said:


> I just want to warn everyone. DON'T get Smith and ken to manage your property at Bay Central. I had a horrible time with them, I did not renew and gave the apartment to Exclusive Links which already managed my other apartments. Now Smith and Ken are not returning the deposit which I must give back to the previous tenant nor the 1,000 AED in petty cash that they kept from my rental!!! DON'T GIVE BUSINESS TO SMITH AND KEN.


I have personal experience of Smith & Ken and agree 100%. Another Dubai agent to add to the do not use list!


----------



## huit

My real estate agent tells me they are installing glass facade on one side of the building, but he has no clue about the interior works as they don't let anyone in.


----------



## lazmic

Any news from My Tower. Almost 1 month gone and updates are not available from their site


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*UAE will win Expo 2020 bid: NYT*

Dubai is expected to win the bid to host 2020 World Expo thanks to government support and owing to political tensions in other countries bidding for the prestigious event, the US New York Times newspaper has said.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/uae-will-win-expo-2020-bid-nyt-2013-08-27-1.518964


----------



## salum2009

We also invested in lawns v and would like to take legal action now. Better as a group! Please contact me on [email protected]. Please title ur email with "lawnsV"


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai property sales rocket 67% to over $6bn*

Land and property sales in Dubai have skyrocketed by 67 percent in a year with $6.26bn of transactions made to the end of July, figures show.

Official data from the Dubai Land Department, covering real estate transactions in the emirate, also showed a similar boon in mortgages over the same period of time.

...

“I think people are very well aware that Dubai as a whole is under-priced. What you’re paying here per square foot to be in a prime location – you can’t get anything like that.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-property-sales-rocket-67--over-6bn-515459.html


----------



## DennyCrane

Agreed, when key staff left this company which now has a huge turnover of staff on a regular basis it went to the dogs. Avoid Avoid Avoid


----------



## sanairug

*any one interested to sell unit in liwan contact me i can help*

I am looking to buy in Liwan project If any one thinking to sell the unit now or later or you wish to buy then please let me know i can help.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The first ever *real time guide to property prices in Dubai *has been launched, in a joint venture between Arabian Business and Better Homes.

The Dubai Property Index features live prices based on up to the minute data from the region’s biggest estate agent Better Homes, with the prices – for both sales and rentals – *reflecting actual transactions*.

The index launched today features seven key areas of the emirate - Downtown Dubai, Dubai Investment Park, Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Lake Towers, Jumeriah Village circle, The Greens and The Palm Jumeirah.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/real-time-property-prices-index-launched-in-dubai-515664.html


----------



## noir-dresses

Just by interest how many people here have a fixed price in mind to sell?


----------



## rags

House Prices Soar - News:
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-house-prices-soar-31-in-h1-says-cluttons-515212.html


----------



## rags

*Geo-political concern*



noir-dresses said:


> Just by interest how many people here have a fixed price in mind to sell?





Josau said:


> Any thoughts on how a military invasion by the US in Syria would influence the UAE in general and Dubai in particular. Sort of scary to think that the conflict in Syria will become a conflict between US/NATO/Israel against Russia/Iran with UAE, Saudi and most other GCC countries supporting the US?


This is always a worry. Overall, it will be completely negative for all, the whole world. No question. That said, it will have varying impact on countries. Dubai gains out of in-country problems such as the ones in Egypt & Syria, thanks to inflow of money and people. *If widened*, however, Syria conflict also becomes a larger one, a proxy to the ever unresolved (and, unresolvable) sectarian conflict between two strains of Islam.

I think, in the end though, an american strike on Syria may be nothing more than symbolic and contained, given the reluctance to strike on the part of Obama and almost all countries in Europe. 

Hope sense prevails all over.


----------



## True Blue

The property index suggests that sales prices and rentals have not increased significantly in the Marina or JLT. Main areas of growth are Downtown and Greens district. Hopefully this is just a blip caused by the level of disruption due to the Tram works(causing traffic caos) and JBR Village works (affecting beach access).

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/property/index/


----------



## True Blue

rags said:


> This is always a worry. Overall, it will be completely negative for all, the whole world. No question. That said, it will have varying impact on countries. Dubai gains out of in-country problems such as the ones in Egypt & Syria, thanks to inflow of money and people. *If widened*, however, Syria conflict also becomes a larger one, a proxy to the ever unresolved (and, unresolvable) sectarian conflict between two strains of Islam.
> 
> I think, in the end though, an american strike on Syria may be nothing more than symbolic and contained, given the reluctance to strike on the part of Obama and almost all countries in Europe.
> 
> Hope sense prevails all over.


The problems in Syria and Egypt are helping Dubai to grow its business hub concept. I know of many companies who have now relocated their Middle East operation to UAE and in particular Dubai. All due to the amount of unrest in many other parts of the Mena countries.

UK have now ruled out military action on the Syrian regime.


----------



## lazmic

Does anyone know how much the rate for rent or sale in Dubai Marina?


----------



## Bradpole

jasper1000 said:


> Does any body know if the Lawns apartments have parking and is it under ground


Lawns 4 has underground parking


----------



## sgn7200

salum2009 said:


> We also invested in lawns v and would like to take legal action now. Better as a group! Please contact me on [email protected]. Please title ur email with "lawnsV"


*This is not an option. There is no law in Dubai under which you can sue DEC for delay in L.4 and L.5. You will just be wasting money and time. There are many better options. Find out who are the auditors of DEC and what are they saying in their report about DEC. May be, they have found a sink hole through which our monies have disappeared. Someone in Dubai has to help us to collect information. I am looking for a brave person who can get us a copy of the audit report. I can think of only two logical reasons as to why DEC have done no work in L.4 and L.5 for the last 6 months; (a) DEC have no funds for whatever reason to carry on with implementation of the remaining work; (b) The whole of the real estate market is stage managed by the authorities so as to restrict supply and prevent bubbles - if this is true, this may be the reason why DEC are not allowed to finish off the remainder of the work in these two projects. I shall welcome input and comments.*


----------



## UKNewguy

I'm looking to buy one of the Novas in the secondary market. How long before you're allowed to transfer???


----------



## zic320

hi guys, I spoke to the D1 selling office today and she told me that they expect the delivery in 12 MONTHS!!!! and in best cases between May and JUN.
No title deed will be delivered till completion but they plan to issue a kind of letter that she called "UKOOD" to facilitate any mortgage 3 to 4 months before delivery.
as they keep pushing the delivery date I understood that they are more keen to deliver the vesace before summer 2014 then they shift the hole teem to the D1 tower.

as she sad they are selling the 3 bdr at 1800 aed/sqft.


----------



## Number 49

"Delivery" means Handover Date. 
Handover will be after Completion and the Completion Date is defined in the S&P Agreement as:

"The date the Seller (i.e. Enshaa) receives its certificate from the relevant governmental authority in relation to the completion of the construction of the Development."


----------



## Desertrose

*Jumeirah Park Security*

Hi All!
Any one have any contact information for Jumeirah Park security? I called this morning and I was told that the security company has been changed.
The new contact number they gave me to call was for Jumeirah Islands Security.
Any new phone numbers for JP security would be appreciated.
Also, I know we've discussed DEWA before but I'm just curious to know what every body's bill is like every month.
Thanks.


----------



## jpcharlie

DEWA... I averaging around 2500dhs/ month. Air freshner system remains off. This month pool was commissioned so that will be extra. The pool guy told me if I use the pool temperature cooler / heater it will add another 2000dhs to the bill on its own.


----------



## basheer.mohammad

I see ad's for crw rental now and proposed handover seems to be 23rd sept.

Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## nassah

buying on power of power of attorney is saf or not...?

what are the precaustions to be takes - please share you knowkedge


----------



## Akasha

I spoke to them yesterday. The handover letters are being sent out in about 20 days - so yes.

I was a bit ticked off though with Sport City sales for giving out my private contact details to agents! They should be sending us the details and let us contact them if we want to. Also if we want to rent our apartments we HAVE to use the agents DSC have an agreement with - ticked off at that also - I don't see the reason why and they weren't forthcoming with it.

However, I did have a lengthy conversation with one of the agents, who seemed like a really nice, knowledgeable guy. He was saying rental for 1 beds, you can expect between 52-57k to start with.

Don't forget if your property is mortgaged, then your handover notification will come from your bank.


----------



## basheer.mohammad

Akasha said:


> I spoke to them yesterday. The handover letters are being sent out in about 20 days - so yes.


Thanks Akasha. I am in venetian so there is still sometime.

do you have any news on that?


----------



## Desertrose

*DEWA & Fresh Air*

Thanks JPCharlie!
Our DEWA was 5000dhs last month and we were on vacation so turned off water on the villa and hardly any electricity usage.
Very strange!
Month we were using the villa on 'full usage' the bill was 4200dhs with the pool chiller on!
We are trying to find out why our bill is unstable and would turning off the 'Fresh Air' system cut the bill in half. We are going to ask DEWA reps to come and help us find out why the bill keeps going up.
We are careful to only switch on air conditioning units in the rooms we are using.
We have the 'Fresh Air' system on 24/7 as advised by nam maintenance. When ever we turn off 'Fresh Air' our air conditioning starts blowing hot air.
Would love to know more about the 'Fresh Air' system and how we can switch it off but still get the air conditioning to cool.


----------



## firoz bharmal

If I by any property in freehold area then for how many visa they allowed also for how much time.....any answer will be welcomed...


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

We are averaging AED2400/month, Fresh Air system on 24/7, switching AC unit on/off as we move thru rooms with exception of downstairs where we keep one AC on continuously thru summer months. Water heaters off. Will activate the pool this month. 4 bed Legacy.


----------



## jasper1000

I thought the last report we got 2 weeks ago was that construction was in full swing on Lawn 4 with about 40 to 50 workers.


----------



## skinnygirl

*D1 units from the developer*

Below is the list of D1 units that the developer sent out to certain Agents in May 2013. 
The prices they are quoting are considerably higher than the 1,800 per sq ft they say they are selling for. 

Unit #Unit Type Beds Area	Price Price per Sq Ft

306 F	1	1,130	2,368,874	2,096
307	B	3	1,844	3,865,668	2,096
405	B	3	1,844	3,937,254	2,135
406	F	1	1,130	2,375,016	2,102
506	F	1	1,146	2,385,370	2,081
603	D	Studio	598	1,360,580	2,275
605	B	3	1,844	3,965,889	2,151
907	B	3	1,844	3,951,571	2,143
1307	B	3	1,844	4,048,929	2,196
1403	D	Studio	598	1,375,289	2,300
1507	B	3	1,844	4,068,973	2,207
2105	B	3	1,844	4,231,907	2,295
2707	B	3	1,844	4,171,355	2,262
2803	D	Studio	598	1,401,030	2,343
3103	D	Studio	598	1,406,546	2,352
3203	D	Studio	598	1,408,385	2,355
4805	R11	4	3,507	8,430,174	2,404
4903	R12	4	3,488	8,400,751	2,408


----------



## cguria

Spoke to a rep over the phone. Preregistration for the sales event starts on 9th September and they are launching only the first units on the 14/15th. Made sense for them to wait until now to launch because they can ask for AED 1800+ per square foot.


----------



## dubailawyer123

anyone looking to sell a Palma Townhouse? i stay in the Marina residences, but believe the Palma project will be very interesting upon completion.


----------



## Desertrose

Thanks All! I really appreciate the input! Looks like a normal DEWA bill for a 4 bedroom should be an average of 2400dhs a month. I filed a complaint with DEWA and hoping to reduce the bill next month.


----------



## zic320

if you have a look on "dubizzle" you will find a much lower prices!!!! these prices will become logic when it s close to the hand over and maybe more than that after.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai: Speculation that Dubai’s property market is overheating could be misplaced — even with the steady recent gains home prices are still 31.1 per cent off their 2008 peaks, according to a new report by property consultancy, Cluttons.

“Recent IMF [International Monetary Fund] concerns about the market overheating may prove too negative,” the ‘Summer 2013’ report tracking the first six-month performance of the UAE realty notes. “An expanding economy, coupled with a rising population, currently forms the backbone of Dubai’s housing demand. However, buy-to-let investors, both from within the UAE and further afield, are also contributing to overall buyer requirements,” the report stated.

In other words, current asking prices are founded on genuine demand coupled to rational asking prices

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/dubai-home-prices-31-off-2008-peak-rates-1.1226293


----------



## burntfingers

Hi Jasper and everyone invested in L4.
What update. Last one I got was weeks ago showing OLD photos of construction site. Told them in a reply this was obvious lie about situation with construction and to tell me truth. After many e-mails got back short reply stating All construction stopped as DEC were chasing debtors / who ever owed them money etc. 
I replied asking would this take weeks, months or YEARS ? Guess What....No reply, despite many attempts to contact them.
Has construction started again ? Have we proof ?


----------



## jasper1000

Hi A few of us are signed up to a group. The following is an e mail i received about 2 weeks ago 
Dear Friends, 

I had been to the Lawns 4 site this morning and have seen the following:

1. Atleast about 30-40 workers working seriously. Loading offloading.. building the walls of the ground floor etc... going on
2. The crane was offloading bricks and materials from the truck and placing them inside the building.
3. Met the site engineer and he told me that the work is going on full swing and hopefully this time it will not stop
4. They plan to complete and handover Lawns 4 in 6-8 months from now. 
5. Unfortunatly nothing happening at Lawns 5. All that they did last was the basement thats all. All action was at the Lawns 4 site now. 
6. Went to Lawns 2... Its still a big rectangular pit and most of the sand have started to cave in... surprisingly the site board that was placed down couple of years back... i found it errect now.

Well this is the current update. I will revisit the site after a month and report back.


----------



## burntfingers

Sincere thanks Jasper for this update on Lawns IV. I feel so sorry for all the poor DEC investors who have had such a terrible time and still have no positive news. Good luck to us all.
Regarding Lawns IV, can I ask anyone who has an apartment here contact me via this or private thread. Jasper....you mention some people signed up to a group. How do I sign up and join and to help in any way I can ?
What should Lawns IV investors need to be aware of next. My concern is
"Who next is waiting to take advantage of us" ? For Example Furnishing our Apartment and then getting it rented out at a fair price etc. Any good news out there ?
Once again THANK YOU JASPER FOR UPDATE (why has DEC not replied to me if positive news ? )


----------



## Berliner01

A friend had the same problem in a different district and it turned out DEWA wasn't actually reading the meter but just estimating the consumption.


----------



## building1

I am living in JP since last October. DEWA bill for the 4 bed with pool is around AED 3,500 in the summer months (with A/C on) and AED 2,500 during the winter months (no A/C) including housing fee of AED 1,000.


----------



## jp resident

We are in a 3 large and dewa bill is 2800 this month. No pool and air freshener off. The month before with air freshener on it was double.


----------



## sgn7200

burntfingers said:


> Sincere thanks Jasper for this update on Lawns IV. I feel so sorry for all the poor DEC investors who have had such a terrible time and still have no positive news. Good luck to us all.
> Regarding Lawns IV, can I ask anyone who has an apartment here contact me via this or private thread. Jasper....you mention some people signed up to a group. How do I sign up and join and to help in any way I can ?
> What should Lawns IV investors need to be aware of next. My concern is
> "Who next is waiting to take advantage of us" ? For Example Furnishing our Apartment and then getting it rented out at a fair price etc. Any good news out there ?
> Once again THANK YOU JASPER FOR UPDATE (why has DEC not replied to me if positive news ? )


*Let us not start building castles in the air on the basis of this unverified information which might prove to be mis-information. Please look at the above mail from Wissaam11 on 11th August where he appears to have visited the area and found no activity. First thing to do is for someone to go to the site and report what is true. This might be a tactic to divert our attention from the real issue i.e. get RERA involved, otherwise, DEC might start and stop again as they have been doing all along. We should all really congratulate Wissaam11 for being so bold and active. Please give him full credit for all his efforts. From me, Wissaam11, please accept THREE CHEERS!*


----------



## basheer.mohammad

Spoke to aKhan today. Understand 2nd building will be handed in Nov and Venetian in April


----------



## beer51

*5 reasons why Dubai property prices will continue to rise*

This time it is not an off-plan play, says Standard Chartered bank in new report

Residential property prices in Dubai are in the midst of another boom, but this time it’s fundamentals – and not speculation – at play, a leading global bank has said in a new report published today, indicating that the rally will continue as long as the fundamentals remain in place.

See link for full article
http://www.emirates247.com/news/5-r...ces-will-continue-to-rise-2013-09-04-1.519830


----------



## beer51

*Dubai property buoyancy puts developers back on launch track*

Number of new projects to be launched in the coming months

A number of developers in Dubai, named the hottest global property market by Knight Frank, are set to launch new projects in the coming months, Emirates 24|7 can reveal.

One of the major private players ETA Star Property Developers, part of ETA–Ascon Group, will be re-entering Dubai’s buoyant real estate market with a series of new launches across various master communities.

See link for full article
http://www.emirates247.com/news/dub...pers-back-on-launch-track-2013-09-04-1.519761


----------



## IISinbadII

firoz bharmal said:


> If I by any property in freehold area then for how many visa they allowed also for how much time.....any answer will be welcomed...


To my knowledge, currently buying freehold property does not entitle you for a resident visa. However, your developer may help you get multiple entry "visit visas" if your property worth is AED 1 million or more. For example read this: http://www.emaar.com/Emaar.Upload/EMR-SINGAPORE-EN-US/CMS/PDF/VisaFactSheet2011.pdf

People usually apply for different kinds of business (resident) visas either by opening up regular trading companies or free zone companies in RAK or Jabl Ali free zones, etc. You can contact the free zones directly (check their websites) or talk to many companies who help people apply.

Once upon a time, there were property based 3 year resident visas for owners and their families. That facility was stopped long time age. After that came 6 month (renewable) resident visa. That was stopped too. There is news that the authorities may come up with something new.


----------



## santori

*Drilling for Water Wells in Jumeirah Park?*

Since the water usage for gardens in Jumeirah Park is coming out to be such an expensive prospect, I'm wondering if any resident has tried to drill for underground water with any success? I'm told that boring for a well is possible and not that costly (500-700 aed) but then it depends on the quality of the water that comes out. If its sweet, then its good for the garden but if its bitter, it won't work. 

Any trailblazing resident who has tried this and has had any success? If it works, it will save a tonne of money...


----------



## firoz bharmal

IISinbadII said:


> To my knowledge, currently buying freehold property does not entitle you for a resident visa. However, your developer may help you get multiple entry "visit visas" if your property worth is AED 1 million or more. For example read this: http://www.emaar.com/Emaar.Upload/EMR-SINGAPORE-EN-US/CMS/PDF/VisaFactSheet2011.pdf
> 
> People usually apply for different kinds of business (resident) visas either by opening up regular trading companies or free zone companies in RAK or Jabl Ali free zones, etc. You can contact the free zones directly (check their websites) or talk to many companies who help people apply.
> 
> Once upon a time, there were property based 3 year resident visas for owners and their families. That facility was stopped long time age. After that came 6 month (renewable) resident visa. That was stopped too. There is news that the authorities may come up with something new.


Thanks for info......where to get info of new visa policy...!


----------



## jasper1000

Well got an e mail this morning from DEC confirming work started mid August and they will be e mailing me up to date photos


----------



## Green Hornet

beer51 said:


> *Dubai property buoyancy puts developers back on launch track*
> 
> Number of new projects to be launched in the coming months
> 
> A number of developers in Dubai, named the hottest global property market by Knight Frank, are set to launch new projects in the coming months, Emirates 24|7 can reveal.
> 
> One of the major private players ETA Star Property Developers, part of ETA–Ascon Group, will be re-entering Dubai’s buoyant real estate market with a series of new launches across various master communities.
> 
> See link for full article
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/dub...pers-back-on-launch-track-2013-09-04-1.519761



There should be a total ban on any new residential projects unless they offer something new or different.

Units which are half built need to be completed and empty finished units need to be filled before any new units are built.

Most of the construction taking place should be for tourism and commercial (not new offices).


----------



## noir-dresses

Has any one noticed how much the DFM has fallen lately?


----------



## building1

AED 422 for one night; that is cheap....


----------



## mashraf42

Superman_Saqran said:


> Hopefully they will finish the tower before the next property bubble ends


Has any work started since the finishing of the 20 th floor?


----------



## jp resident

We had a well in the meadows house we rented. The water was too salty and ruined the grass. And if course it's illegal ! Wouldn't recommend it. I'm surprised your water bill is that high. I think it's the electricity that's expensive for us. Ratio if 80/20%


----------



## mikel1982

No, i didnt see workers there for months.


----------



## Josau

beer51 said:


> *
> 
> One of the major private players ETA Star Property Developers, part of ETA–Ascon Group, will be re-entering Dubai’s buoyant real estate market with a series of new launches across various master communities.
> 
> See link for full article
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/dub...pers-back-on-launch-track-2013-09-04-1.519761*


*
^^Star Giga, which is linked to ETA Star is even restarting their stalled projects in Emirates City Ajman.
Well, here we go again. I guess, people who have been burned once will be more careful. But there is a whole lot, who have not experienced the first crash...*


----------



## building1

noir-dresses said:


> Has any one noticed how much the DFM has fallen lately?


Yes, Emaar is at AED 5.25 again. I think a good buying opportunity. That stock will go up to AED 7 within 2 or 3 years.


----------



## worried4

*AED 422*



building1 said:


> AED 422 for one night; that is cheap....


That must be an hourly rate!!:banana:


----------



## Sportmikkel

building1 said:


> AED 422 for one night; that is cheap....


Extremely cheap!!! Even for high season:
600AED for Christmas
900AED for New Years 

Looks like the hotel units are not such a good investment after all...


----------



## worried4

*Did you see suites*



Sportmikkel said:


> Extremely cheap!!! Even for high season:
> 600AED for Christmas
> 900AED for New Years
> 
> Looks like the hotel units are not such a good investment after all...


Did you see the prices for junior suites? I could not see any


----------



## building1

jp resident said:


> We had a well in the meadows house we rented. The water was too salty and ruined the grass. And if course it's illegal ! Wouldn't recommend it. I'm surprised your water bill is that high. I think it's the electricity that's expensive for us. Ratio if 80/20%


our ratio is 33%/33%/33% (electricity/ water/ housing fee)


----------



## Global Player

nassah said:


> buying on power of power of attorney is saf or not...?
> 
> what are the precaustions to be takes - please share you knowkedge


i would recommend u wait until the initial owner has paid 30% of the payments according to emaar's payment schedule and then buy, as that is SAFE, u get ur NOC from emaar, and it's a "clean" transaction. other than that, try ur luck when emaar releases another phase and but direct from emaar.

i have bought 3 properties from emaar at various stages in the past few years, never bought it as a "second" buyer


----------



## nassah

Thanks cquiria 
what is registration process - can you share thr contact number or web where we need to register - i am not uae so i need make sure the registration before departing


----------



## jprp

*Street lights*

Hi everyone! I just have to ask cuz we have been living in total darkness since June, are there any other inhabited streets with the lights off? Every single street around us is lit exceptttttt ours it's driving me nuts! Does anyone know who to call? Sent a zillion emails made a zillion phone calls no replies of courseeee! Ahhhhhh!!!


----------



## nassah

Thanks, Global Player

Any guess when next launch???


----------



## Logik120

J39 said:


> Viewed the show apartments, nice finish, bad location, very noisey,totally overpriced.
> Select sales person told me from the high floors there is a great view of the marina lookin over the top of Silverene.
> West Avenue 33 floors.
> Silverene 34 floors.
> So how does that work.
> The view at best is glancing between Silverene towers and Nuran.Or a panaramic view of S.Z. Road from the other side!
> Also asked Select person if the square footage included the car park space.
> I was told no, Select had only done that at Bay Central.
> We did not go into whether Select would force buyers to sign illegal adendums,appoint dodgy consultants,deliver late etc etc.
> Leopards do not change their spots.


^^ Well Tower B of Silverene is 26 storeys so that's probably what they mean.

But yeah, Select are Select.

I like the location near the metro, near the mall, near the tram, near the yacht club - but it is 2nd row/SZR.


----------



## R Malhotra

Dear all, any updates. Seems like everyone has lost hope


----------



## ps500

*Sanctuary Falls*

I visited the Sanctuary Falls show house this weekend and was very impressed, but they are busy selling their final phase of villas but do not appear to have restarted construction.

I am very interested in buying here but would welcome the views and experiences of the long suffering investors here, also could somebody advise the original selling prices of earlier sales and the payment profile, presumably it was not the current offer of 40% during construction and 60% on completion.

What are existing customers getting told about the completion timescales for your villas.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## myselfme&I

*Handover of Package 6 sector E*

Has anyone got the keys to their Villa in Package 6 (JPE3VLXXX)?


----------



## True Blue

Logik120 said:


> ^^ Well Tower B of Silverene is 26 storeys so that's probably what they mean.
> 
> But yeah, Select are Select.
> 
> *I like the location near the metro, near the mall, near the tram, near the yacht club - but it is 2nd row/SZR.*


If you are thinking of buying then value it appropriately based on location and likely quality of finish. I had a tenant who left a 1 bed unit in Jewels to move into a 2 bed in La Riviera tower for the same money. Everything on Al Marsha street is cheap to rent. Doesn't seem to matter that it is closer to the metro, mall or yacht club. The constant noise from SZR and Al Marsha street traffic is a pain, I know as I once did a short let in a Marina Diamond.

This building will do a good job of shielding Silverene from some of the road noise.


----------



## jasper1000

Dec sent me an e mail saying hand over for Lawn 4 will be May 2014 latest


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

*Villa warranty expiry*

I have some info on the JP villa warranty expiry.

I assumed I had a one year villa warranty from date of handover but I have just found out from Nakheel that they are using completely different dates in their record system, in my case it will result an eight month warranty coverage only. 

In other words, Nakheel will not come and fix issues such as broken AC unit, non functioning household goods, leaks etc beyond the date they have logged in their computer system. That is of course unless you pay for it. 

For info, JP Package 2 had all their warranties expire 1st of June 2013 while villa owners in Package 2A, cluster A thru H, had their warranties expire Sept 17 2013. I am in 2A and had handover Dec 4 2012 so I feel my warranty should expire Dec 4 2013.

I was advised by Nakheel customer service 04-3903333 to go down to Nakheel HQ next to Palm Jumeirah in person to fight my case as " Nakheel rarely responds to email inquiries ". 

Will keep you posted, any info appreciated.


----------



## farzanamasud

Hi, I have a plot in The Villa Project in Dubai Land. 
The size of the plot is approx. 10,165 sq. ft. in RL sector, phase 2;
in a fully established community.
If interested, do contact me. 

Contact details:
[email protected]
00971 56 604 302


----------



## bister

*Skinny Girl - Not an Ounce of Credibility*



bister said:


> Skinny, whatever you are smoking can I have some? The joy of complete detachment with reality is here to be savoured...share your magic Skinny, PLEASE


So Enshaa finally admitting that completion is now end of 2014. If you care to explore Skinny Girl's countless postings on this matter, I believe an apology from her is in order. Myself and other have been accused for being liars and scaremongers when in fact we were plainly right all along, while Skinny was spin doctoring the process.

Humble pie is served Skinny may the taste make you reflect.


----------



## Superman_Saqran

mikel1982 said:


> You should mark this thread as on hold. They removed security blocks and now we have full roundabout in cluster.


Do you mean they will not start the work for a long time to go?


----------



## True Blue

I just counted 23 adverts for the same 2 bedroom apartment in the marina. What possesses people to go to these lengths? How can they be bothered having 23 agents crawling around with their clients. 

It also gives a false impression of the market and probably works against the landlord.


----------



## nassah

EMAAR started the trasfer or not? when it is expected to open transfer?


----------



## dirtyharry1

That is normal... When I was about to sell mine there were even agents (Driven Properties etc) that used the pics from betterhomes to advert my apartment for rent and sale... and it was never for rent!


----------



## True Blue

If that is the case then landlords are just encouraging the cowboys by behaving like this. If the agent can't be bothered to do their own photo shoot and accurate description then they won't put in a professional level of service when it comes to completing the job.

I have had bad experience of poor quality agents. Taktical turned up for a viewing years ago and started a scene with another agent. They then missinformed me that they had a better offer and I instructed them to go ahead with their client. Turned out the offer they were referring to included the security deposit AND their commission. By this time I was back in the UK. Apart from getting stuffed by these amateurs, the tenant turned out to be a complete arse also. Insisting on compensation for this and that, refusing to allow me access to inspect and investigate and eventually leaving the place wrecked. The apartment was brand new and needed a new bath and numerous repairs after only 1 year rent. He even fought me in the tribunal for his deposit returned.

So I don't deal with dodgy agents any more, just the ones I can trust. If the agent can't get a deposit cheque prior to signing then don't sign and move on without wasting your time.


----------



## AW.

*DU Wireless*

Have a SiteCom Router and have been trying in vain since past two days to get it to work. Cant use the wired internet at al times. DU doesn't support troubleshooting on WIFI & Routers.

1) Anyone has any suggestions to get around this issue?
2) Can anyone recommend any technician for this issue?

Regards...


----------



## AW.

*Wardrobe / Cabinet Shelfs & Drawers*

Half the Cabinets in all bedrooms have space for long attire ( e.g Kandura & Abayya's). This renders most of the space unusable for someone who doesn't wear such an attire. 

1. Has anyone got any shelf's and drawers made in their cabinets / wardrobes?
2. Any recommendations for a carpenter for this job?

Regards


----------



## gevorika78

nassah said:


> EMAAR started the trasfer or not? when it is expected to open transfer?


January 2014


----------



## AltinD

My rent for 2014 (non freehold), just increased by .... 40% :nuts:


... although I haven't got a raise in 5 or so years. Also company pays


----------



## True Blue

^^So if you are saying non freehold, I assume your landlord is Emirati and therefore will stick two fingers up Rera :lol:


----------



## AltinD

^^ Yes he is, they are also claiming the rate is adjusted as per RERA index for the area. I did filed a complain with the office. Let see what will come out of it.

My renewal date is on Jan 1st 2014, so there is still time, and I was paying indeed less then I should (based on the rent levels are)


----------



## Impy

*New centre to solve Dubai rent disputes -Gulf News 22/9/13*

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/h...ai-rent-disputes-1.1233846#.Uj8O4oUn10A.email


----------



## jp resident

*carpenter*

I had shelves made for most wardrobes. Identical to the ones in place.
Also had a buffet done under the bar in the kitchen (dining room side) that is exactly like the kitchen cabinet. great work

Name is Zaka
mob 0557952670
email is [email protected]


----------



## nassah

any idea about the prices??


----------



## Desertrose

*Wifi support*



AW. said:


> Have a SiteCom Router and have been trying in vain since past two days to get it to work. Cant use the wired internet at al times. DU doesn't support troubleshooting on WIFI & Routers.
> 
> 1) Anyone has any suggestions to get around this issue?
> 2) Can anyone recommend any technician for this issue?
> 
> Regards...


Hi!
I use Balu, he's fixed my system to work every where in the villa. I will send you the number by message.
D.


----------



## Desertrose

*Warranty Expiry*



DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> I have some info on the JP villa warranty expiry.
> 
> I assumed I had a one year villa warranty from date of handover but I have just found out from Nakheel that they are using completely different dates in their record system, in my case it will result an eight month warranty coverage only.
> 
> In other words, Nakheel will not come and fix issues such as broken AC unit, non functioning household goods, leaks etc beyond the date they have logged in their computer system. That is of course unless you pay for it.
> 
> For info, JP Package 2 had all their warranties expire 1st of June 2013 while villa owners in Package 2A, cluster A thru H, had their warranties expire Sept 17 2013. I am in 2A and had handover Dec 4 2012 so I feel my warranty should expire Dec 4 2013.
> 
> I was advised by Nakheel customer service 04-3903333 to go down to Nakheel HQ next to Palm Jumeirah in person to fight my case as " Nakheel rarely responds to email inquiries ".
> 
> Will keep you posted, any info appreciated.


Hi!

We were told our warranty expired as well in package 2a and we got our hand over in March. Keep us posted on what they tell you at Nakheel, thank you!

D.


----------



## AW.

*CCTV System*

Hi All, 

Has anyone installed CCTV systems in their homes?
Any references of vendors and estimated cost would be highly appreciated. 

I believe without adequate security gates for the moment, a CCTV system would be quite comforting to have. Especially if their is a child & nanny alone in the house. 

Regards


----------



## myselfme&I

*St Tropez design contact*



DubaiDesert said:


> Look like everyone has his own experience and it is great to share them together. My landscaping company is St. Tropez and I am happy with their performance and how friendly they are. I love their creativity and sometimes I did not like the delay but nothing is perfect.
> 
> They applied for me to remove the wall facing Jumeirah Island and this week we had the permission. It was great news to us. I believe we are the first villa approved and that was an achievement for St Tropez, in particular Mr. Bahman.


Hi DesertDubai

Do you have a phone number for St Tropez Design company or a mopbile for Mr. Bahman? The one on the website (04-3362003) is disconnected.

Regards


----------



## Desertrose

*St Tropez Design*



myselfme&I said:


> Hi DesertDubai
> 
> Do you have a phone number for St Tropez Design company or a mopbile for Mr. Bahman? The one on the website (04-3362003) is disconnected.
> 
> Regards


Hi!

I've sent you his mobile contacts via private message.

D.


----------



## Jahed

AW,
I installed Samsung CCTVs in my house. 4 external cameras with a DVR kit and a mobile app so I can view remotely. The supply and fitting was done by Gadalla.com

Also, I used the wardrobe guys listed as suppliers on the CD Nakheel gave on handover. 

Hope this helps.



AW. said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Has anyone installed CCTV systems in their homes?
> Any references of vendors and estimated cost would be highly appreciated.
> 
> I believe without adequate security gates for the moment, a CCTV system would be quite comforting to have. Especially if their is a child & nanny alone in the house.
> 
> Regards


----------



## VR6

Any developments here? What have people done so far?


----------



## ummbutti

kuttika said:


> hi all looking to buy an apartment in wharf I, no clue, can somebody pm me with some advice
> 
> thanks


Don't Even think about it . DEC is the worst company ever.


----------



## sgn7200

SagarDubai said:


> Dear Friends,
> Pleased to let you all know that I had been to the site yesterday and seen the work is going on at Lawns 4. Seen labourers doing the brick work on the ground floor. Work has resumed on Lawns 5 site too. So this is a good news for all of us. Hopefully with fingers crossed, Lawns 4 should be ready for handover within 6-8 months from now. Cheers...


*This is really a good news. The further good news is DEC have announced handover dates for both Lawns 4 and Lawns 5 as 2nd and 3rd quarter 2014 respectively. Let us keep our fingers crossed. Knowing the past history of DEC, they can stop any time. So we all have to be vigilant. Whenever possible, please keep visiting the site and keep the fellow investors informed. Thank you all for all your efforts. Keep the good work going.*


----------



## Dubai_Steve

AltinD said:


> ^^ Yes he is, they are also claiming the rate is adjusted as per RERA index for the area. I did filed a complain with the office. Let see what will come out of it.
> 
> My renewal date is on Jan 1st 2014, so there is still time, and I was paying indeed less then I should (based on the rent levels are)


I thought 20% was the maximum increase allowed in one go according to the RERA increase calculator if the rent is currently very low compared with current prices.


----------



## Spurs

There is a rumour going around the property transfer fee payable to the DLD will be increased to 4%. As of this Sunday coming!!!! 

Shouldn't they give a notice period with this sort of thing??


----------



## Impy

*Dubai on top of the world: No 1 on global housing markets' list*

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...obal-housing-markets-list-2013-09-24-1.522029


----------



## newbuyer2013

Spurs said:


> There is a rumour going around the property transfer fee payable to the DLD will be increased to 4%. As of this Sunday coming!!!!
> 
> Shouldn't they give a notice period with this sort of thing??


what is the source of this information please? thanks


----------



## Spurs

Various real estate companies have said a statement will be announced on Sunday. 

If true I really hope they give a notice period. So they say in 3 months the fee will increase!


----------



## True Blue

Impy said:


> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...obal-housing-markets-list-2013-09-24-1.522029


It is nice to read that article but as it has been published by a local newspaper you have to read it with a pinch of salt. There has been a sudden bounce back in prices but I expect things will slow in the second half of the year. Slower price rises will result in more stability and increased confidence in the market. That is what we really need.

What is positive is the amount of money that continues to be spent on infrastructure improvements in the region. Although it is a complete pain to have to live with all the upheaval of the roads network while they build a tram system. The gains will be felt through all the areas which benefit from the improvements in the public transport network.


----------



## Akasha

Handover letters being sent out now. Shame they sent me details of someone else's apartment - hey ho.


----------



## MaaaD

Hello everyone i am back as i am now ready to upgrade from my 1 bed in the Jewels to a larger apartment (2 or 3 bed) but this time i want to move more central (DIFC, Downtown, and Business Bay). I really put a lot of value on good finishes, and services in the apartment what projects can you guys recommend? I am viewing park tower tomorrow but being Damac I have very little hope it will be good. I have always been a fan of Liberty house in DIFC, any other towers you guys can recommend? this is for me to live in not an investment but obviously buying a property is always an investment  

Thanks !


----------



## Heeno

makin said:


> Thanks God the hotel is opening finally.
> I have a loft and an apartment and was waiting for the hotel to open as per some agent's advise. I hope I didn't because I only lost time. Any way I came across a gent few days ago and rented the loft.
> the apartment is still vacant. if any of you needs to rent an apartment I have mine empty.
> at the same time I am interested to buy a hotel room.


Makin , sent you a PM


----------



## Josau

unknownpleasures said:


> ^^^^^^
> I'm still waiting to hear from anyone who knows is there any completed apartments being advertised in the city of sport (Dubai Sports City), for the life of me I cannot find anything on this in any ads on the internet, am I looking in the wrong places? Just wanted to know how things were progressing as I know many there who have been bitterly disappointed with projects that have not gotten anywhere, plenty of holes in the ground and no answers.  :cheers:


I recall running into somebody who lives there. So some projects must be completed.


----------



## santori

*Villa Extension*

Hi All, I know this has been briefely discussed in the past but can anyone please share info on contractors/cost/experience with villa extensions? Specifically, I'm in a 3 bed small legacy and thinking of extending the doors to the loggia to include the patio in the built up area. My impression is that this extension is being undertaken by a number of residents since it makes a lot of sense. 

If you have had a villa extension done, can you share any names/contact number for suggested contractors who did good work and knew the process?

And in terms of getting the necessary approvals from Nakheel, how long did the process take? 

In terms of cost, Nakheel has indicated that they will charge 2,500 aed DCUP fees for conditional approval and then 200 aed per sq. ft (which seems like daylight robbery, but oh well...). If you have had a loggia villa extension done, can you please share cost estimates? Thanks.


----------



## Pleth

There are lots of finished apartments / buildings in Sports City.
http://gnads4u.com/search.html?t=pr...=Dubai&area=Dubai+Sports+City&max_price=65000


----------



## Pleth

Josau said:


> When reading through the various threads I am reminded of 2007. So many projects being announced at Cityscape Global. Where is all the money coming from to pay for this? However this time around there are some people with warning voices:*Dubai headed for another slump within 18mths says Abu Dhabi chief*
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/duba...ithin-18mths-says-abu-dhabi-chief-522436.html


Just always buy something that is built and completed! 
I learned my lesson hno:


----------



## noir-dresses

I have a feeling there is one more factor to the real estate market non of these think tanks have taken into consideration cause they're all counting they're chickens before the eggs have hatched. That would be the potential of people massively off loading they're properties and leaving the Dubai market once the Expo hoopla is over.

I seriously think some people are holding on just a little longer and waiting/hoping prices will increase a little more before pulling the trigger.

We the bunch who have ridden through the 2008 fall are smart enough to know better this time around. 

The 18 to 24 month prediction before the next predicted slump wont help the market either.

Any views on this people?


----------



## jp resident

SO ANGRY AND FRUSTRATED... but I guess that's normal when you deal with anything Nakheel...
so we applied end of august for a pool NOC... Got the Nakheel NOC in 5 days,perfect but since we have had to apply for NOCs from Trakhees (appointed by Nakheel - big mistake I think). And it's been a nightmare. The Trakhees inspector came to our site (which is a sandpit) and started asking our contractor (which has many years experience in Dubai) if they had his guys had fire training, medical training... I mean, they are only digging a hole and putting a pool in ! Had to sign a non objection that the workers could use my toilets or eitherwise the contractor has to put a toilet in the garden ! Go to Emaar and get your NOC in one week and you can start building, go to Nakheel and after 60 days we still can't dig ! I am sooo angry and frustrated. Oh and each time you have to pay to apply for an NOC !! 
Wish Nakheel could see the ridiculous situation they are putting the owners in !


----------



## True Blue

I think the prophets of doom are right to cast aspersions. It is important not to allow the market to over heat again and we all need stability to be able to place a value on our properties and predict the future growth of our portfolio with "reasonable certainty".

Agents are driving up the prices to fever pitch again so that they can cash in on the large commissions. There will be sellers out there trying to time the market, but Dubai remains an investment driven market and that is where its allure has always emanated from.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Josau said:


> I recall running into somebody who lives there. So some projects must be completed.


Yeah some are not all, the question wasn't specifically based on this alone but hey someone else has helped out .:cheers:


----------



## Steverobo

I still cant find anyone to finance my final 10% payment, plus maybe release a bit of the 90% cash I've invested over the last 7 years! I'm not a UAE resident, I'm in the UK

Any suggestions?


----------



## man city fc

Steverobo said:


> I still cant find anyone to finance my final 10% payment, plus maybe release a bit of the 90% cash I've invested over the last 7 years! I'm not a UAE resident, I'm in the UK Any suggestions?


How much is it? Could you not take out a loan?


----------



## Al shali

jp resident said:


> SO ANGRY AND FRUSTRATED... but I guess that's normal when you deal with anything Nakheel...
> so we applied end of august for a pool NOC... Got the Nakheel NOC in 5 days,perfect but since we have had to apply for NOCs from Trakhees (appointed by Nakheel - big mistake I think). And it's been a nightmare. The Trakhees inspector came to our site (which is a sandpit) and started asking our contractor (which has many years experience in Dubai) if they had his guys had fire training, medical training... I mean, they are only digging a hole and putting a pool in ! Had to sign a non objection that the workers could use my toilets or eitherwise the contractor has to put a toilet in the garden ! Go to Emaar and get your NOC in one week and you can start building, go to Nakheel and after 60 days we still can't dig ! I am sooo angry and frustrated. Oh and each time you have to pay to apply for an NOC !!
> Wish Nakheel could see the ridiculous situation they are putting the owners in !


The real villain is Duba's executive counsel who are refusing to enable the law on joint property or Strata law which would enable the owners to form their own Ownership Associations and appoint their own Association Manager. Nakheel, a Dubai government owed company, has arbitrarily appointed themselves Association Manager. Anyone remembering signing a contract in this respect with Nakheel ? Nope you don't as ypu never did, all you did sign an SPA to buy a much delayed villa from them !

Had the Ownership Association Law been enabled we would have formed our own JP Association and you would NOT have to pay AED2500 application fees NOR the AED200/sqft extension fee. The law was unveiled in 2007 but never enforced by RERA or Dubai Lands Deoartment, DLD. You WOULD have get permission from Trakhees which is the Dubai municipal department handling building permits which is fair enough.

You might take some comfort in that all property owners in Dubai are equally angry and frustrated as none had any say in who maintains their properties and what fees they are being charged. Yes it's daylight robbery !


----------



## Al shali

Buyer beware ! How quickly we forget....

January 2009

DUBAI (Zawya Dow Jones)–Dubai’s Public Prosecution is detaining Kabir Mulchandani, chairman of Dynasty Zarooni Real Estate, amid allegations he defrauded investors of up to 450 million U.A.E. dirhams ($123 million), according to lawyers for the investors, government officials and one of his business partners.

His detention is the latest in series of arrests in Dubai related to real estate and finance, but there’s no evidence at present Mulchandani’s arrest is related to any of the previous cases.

Mulchandani, who couldn’t be reached for comment, has previously denied any wrongdoing.

Hilal Al Zarooni, Mulchandani’s local partner in Dubai, said in a phone interview with Zawya Dow Jones “there is no evidence against the company. We sold everything legally.”

Al Zarooni confirmed that Mulchandani is being held for questioning in Dubai, adding that he hasn’t been contacted by authorities on the matter.

Ali Al Hashimi, an attorney for Global Advocates & Legal Consultants who are representing Dynasty Zarooni, also denied that there had been any wrongdoing on the part of his client in a phone interview.

Dubai police officials told Zawya Dow Jones Sunday that Mulchandani has been transferred from Jebel Ali police station to the custody of Dubai’s Public Prosecution pending an investigation of his case.

According to law firm Al Shaali & Co., which is acting on behalf of the investors pursuing Mulchandani who have complained to the police, he is being questioned on two counts both subject to the Federal Penal Code and Dubai’s property laws.

The first case relates to allegations that he conned a small group of wealthy investors into pledging large sums of money with the promise of a hefty monthly return.

The second case involves the selling of property at the AED2 billion Ebony and Ivory development in Dubai’s Jumeirah Lake Towers district. According to Salem Al Shaali, the lawyer handling the case at Dubai-based Al Shaali & Co., Mulchandani took deposits for 20% of the property but failed to deliver the project.

http://maktoummulchandani.blogspot.nl/2009/01/dynasty-zarooni-alfajer-team-up-for.html

Sept 2013

— SKAI Holdings, the Dubai-based real estate investment firm, has secured 2.4bn UAE dirhams’ worth of sales since the launch of its AED3.67bn Viceroy Dubai Palm Jumeirah project, the firm said today.

SKAI Holdings, which officially launched the project with hotel operator Viceory Hotels and Resorts in May, has sold 470 hotel rooms and hotel apartments and 219 residential apartments and villas to date, representing 98 percent of the total available units. The remaining areas such as the food and beverage outlets, meeting rooms, banquet hall and the spa will be retained by the developer.

Work on the development is currently underway with 100 percent of the shoring excavation work complete and the piling and foundation works set to start this month.

“Investors have been extremely keen to purchase property in this exciting new project, which we believe will become one of the region’s most sought-after resorts. Buyers have been particularly interested in purchasing the hotel rooms, which is a unique business model here in the UAE,” said Kabir Mulchandani, CEO of SKAI Holdings.


http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20130926181627


----------



## UAE Investor

Steverobo said:


> I still cant find anyone to finance my final 10% payment, plus maybe release a bit of the 90% cash I've invested over the last 7 years! I'm not a UAE resident, I'm in the UK
> 
> Any suggestions?


SAVE ...WORK HARDER ?

Walk away and concede the balance to DSC

credit card / remortgage your existing property etc

recieve free money from someone

when,s your birthday?

Hope this helps .......................................!
:nuts:


----------



## Desertrose

*Service Charges*

Hi All!

I got an email from JP Community invoicing me for service charges. Any one else in Package 2a receive such an email?

D.


----------



## AW.

Desertrose said:


> Hi All!
> 
> I got an email from JP Community invoicing me for service charges. Any one else in Package 2a receive such an email?
> 
> D.


What's the service charge psf?
Is it on plot size or BUA size?
Did u find any differential charge bcoz of your villa alterations?
Is the charge retrospective from the time you took handover or its beginning September 2013?

Regards


----------



## Desertrose

*Service Charge*



AW. said:


> What's the service charge psf?
> Is it on plot size or BUA size?
> Did u find any differential charge bcoz of your villa alterations?
> Is the charge retrospective from the time you took handover or its beginning September 2013?
> 
> Regards


Hi!
It doesn't explain how they came up with the amount. It says service charge but then invoices us for community general fund. I'm clueless!
It's also a bill from February till December of this year.
I have a sand pit in front of my villa and the trash company comes twice a week to pick up the trash plus absolutely no security! I could get my own people to collect my garbage every day and not twice a week plus landscape the front of my villa for much cheaper than the amount they are invoicing! Ridiculous! I think it's time to sell because I don't see any enjoyment of living in a non existing community like JP and still get billed for service charges so they can fix the rest of the community thru billing us whilst we have sand and garbage in front of our villa! 
D.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Has anyone got their keys yet,,,it's good news to know something is being handed over around the canal at the end of the month? Anyone know when the canal will be filled with real water not a photo-shop job! Oh SR I can see your alter ego is giving you a hand! :lol::cheers:


----------



## unknownpleasures

So many stalled and not completed in DSC, doesn't say which projects were being petitioned, anyone know - the article was in 2012? 


http://www.constructionweekonline.c...-investors-petition-authorities/#.UlfqLFNr3zM




> Hundreds of investors in real estate projects at Dubai Sports City (DSC) are to hand in a petition to Dubai Land Department urging authorities to audit the project and investigate delays by third-party residential real estate subcontractors.
> 
> Over 370 investors in 30 projects have signed the petition, which will be submitted to Sultan Bin Mejren, director-general of the Dubai Land Department, in the coming days.


----------



## man city fc

unknownpleasures said:


> Has anyone got their keys yet,,,it's good news to know something is being handed over around the canal at the end of the month? Anyone know when the canal will be filled with real water not a photo-shop job! Oh SR I can see your alter ego is giving you a hand! :lol::cheers:


http://www.dubaisportscity.ae/NewsDetails.asp?id=427

Sorry to disappoint handover already begun...:cheers:Mr Jhaveri has his keys ....:lol:


----------



## unknownpleasures

Only Emaar Pleth, they sold out the Mira project (over in Dubailand I think near Arabian Ranches), that's off plan as well (April 2013). There was a big rush on there and queues and it sold out. Some just have short memories.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-NX__jdwiU


----------



## idontdream

I counted 51.


----------



## cguria

unknownpleasures said:


> Only Emaar Pleth, they sold out the Mira project (over in Dubailand I think near Arabian Ranches), that's off plan as well (April 2013). There was a big rush on there and queues and it sold out. Some just have short memories.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-NX__jdwiU


Emaar is government owned, it is their responsibility for creating this sort of hype in Dubai to (re)open eyes over the world. At the prices they were offering, 1.1-1.6m for a 3BR Townhouse, it would be absurd not to try and grab one with market prices then and things looking up ahead.

On top of that, Emaar Emaar Emaar will deliver a quality product on time. The location is a bit far out but that's factored in to the price and it was still cheap. Owners are now commanding premiums of 10-20% after just 6 months.

You don't see other developers offering incredible prices or flocks of investors running to buy at market or above-market rates. In my opinion, Cityscape was not a huge success because people have become very very careful where they put their money now. Trusted developer/history, good location and vicinity to transport, selling price and date of delivery are the biggest variables people look at.

I am long Dubai and I think the market has matured remarkably since the mid 2000's.


----------



## unknownpleasures

cguria said:


> Emaar is government owned, it is their responsibility for creating this sort of hype in Dubai to (re)open eyes over the world. At the prices they were offering, 1.1-1.6m for a 3BR Townhouse, it would be absurd not to try and grab one with market prices then and things looking up ahead.
> 
> On top of that, Emaar Emaar Emaar will deliver a quality product on time. The location is a bit far out but that's factored in to the price and it was still cheap. Owners are now commanding premiums of 10-20% after just 6 months.
> 
> You don't see other developers offering incredible prices or flocks of investors running to buy at market or above-market rates. In my opinion, Cityscape was not a huge success because people have become very very careful where they put their money now. Trusted developer/history, good location and vicinity to transport, selling price and date of delivery are the biggest variables people look at.
> 
> I am long Dubai and I think the market has matured remarkably since the mid 2010's.



Yes aware it's govt owned so was Nakheel at one time. Emaar has proven record but anything can go belly up. I was just providing info to someone re off plan as they also mentioned it was unsafe to purchase off plan and so provided this info about Emaar. Yes it's location is a long way agree however there are closer locations that have not been completed. Once investors see only holes and sand and nothing else built in 6 years some will not invest there again and they have no idea what can be done as RERA do not support or instill investor confidence and are more interested in developer.

You mention Cityscape was not a huge success. This can only be due to no investor confidence after many purchased in 2007 and nothing has been built since. They poured their monies in and all has stood still. No one was aware that developers would not build when they are registered and approved by RERA, there is no investor protection and all the excuses in the world won't assist as RERA do nothing. Dubai has itself to blame for this and unless they correct the wrong and govt actually STEP IN and DO something about it, it won't return to what it once was. There are thousands of investors tangled in this mess.


----------



## cguria

unknownpleasures said:


> Yes aware it's govt owned so was Nakheel at one time. Emaar has proven record but anything can go belly up. I was just providing info to someone re off plan as they also mentioned it was unsafe to purchase off plan and so provided this info about Emaar. Yes it's location is a long way agree however there are closer locations that have not been completed. Once investors see only holes and sand and nothing else built in 6 years some will not invest there again and they have no idea what can be done as RERA do not support or instill investor confidence and are more interested in developer.
> 
> You mention Cityscape was not a huge success. This can only be due to no investor confidence after many purchased in 2007 and nothing has been built since. They poured their monies in and all has stood still. No one was aware that developers would not build when they are registered and approved by RERA, there is no investor protection and all the excuses in the world won't assist as RERA do nothing. Dubai has itself to blame for this and unless they correct the wrong and govt actually STEP IN and DO something about it, it won't return to what it once was. There are thousands of investors tangled in this mess.


If there was no investor confidence, we wouldn't have seen such incredible recovery over the past two years.

People poured their money into projects by developers with little or no history, out of greed, in areas of Dubai such as DSC which has seen projects slowly come back to life recently. The world economy crashed and I agree the property bubble became too big leading to a big bust. 

You are correct here, RERA approved developers at the time was not enough unfortunately. The country is still very young and so is the legal system, any investment off plan is a gamble. The government did little to protect investors at the time but over the last few years the laws have been updated with pre-construction land ownership laws, escrow accounts, mandatory SPA inclusions to protect the investor. Some developers have run away and may never come back and some are returning to finish what they started. For those who have run away, I don't know if the money will be returned after chasing the courts but I know that any launch today the protection offered is much more comforting than in 2008.

We don't want the market to return to what it once was which was out of control with little regulation. We want a stable market run by developers who will deliver products even through the tough times, and a controlled stream of new supply.

Along with many family and friends we are also still stuck in many projects. Nakheel is a different story who suffered the most with the biggest projects off-plan during the crisis and I would not trust them with any investment because of the way their business is run, the general quality of construction they provide and the way they treat existing customers. However, things are looking bright even on their end with recent massive profit declarations.. they will also eventually deliver what was promised. #restartPJA


----------



## cguria

building1 said:


> Does anybody know what the current situation on this project is ? Did they restart selling the units ? What needs to happen that the construction is continuing ?


They claim construction is ongoing, but there has been no development for about 1 year now. They have a lot of units with them still and they say big chunks of floors have been sold to many Saudi investors, doubt that..

Their pricing is very high (especially since they promise 2017 delivery) so its going to be tough to get work going with not enough cashflow. However, in my opinion, people will slowly start investing in this one with market prices catching up, and I see work starting in full force within 1 year.


----------



## cguria

Has anybody else here been approached by Enshaa or Bond Lawyers? The are the official lawyers for PV and D1 and have all the information regarding these projects. They approached us seeking solutions to move forward and we are now negotiating with them.


----------



## Love-Dubai

It is really very miserable situation that we have invested a lot of amount in this tower but neither it is completing nor we can get refund. All our finance stucked in this tower. They are making 2/3 floors in a year that means reaching to 34 floors they will take another 6/7 years and then finishing and completion! I think it will take our whole life but will not complete. Dear friends, do you have a solution to this problem?

Since we have a very bad experience in dealing with Al Masah / Al Saqran Tower and their other projects, it is our moral duty to inform others to beware with this nasty builder. They will snatch all your finance and you will not get anything. Therefore, please please please do NOT invest in any project of Al Masah. They are actually a black-mailer group which are eating people's money. This is the situation. Now it is up to you to decide.

Dear friends, please keep on propagating the above real situation on all blogs, websites, media in line of above to put pressure on builder to wake-up and return our hard earned money and to save other people at least.


----------



## qronfla

I think the best thing is, to make big pressure on alamasah, because they take our money, but is not to make bad name to the Tower, in my opinion, because may be you have no problem, and cant wait and may be other people want to sell, and how they sell, if we make bad name to the tower.?
I think people see before they buy, and may be will be like us take the risk, but if more people, buy in it, there will be more that can make pressure, but if we stay make bad name, that means that every body loose all his money when begin this.
This is a matter, I think that we have to solve it with almasah and the Developer, and also with the Government of Dubai. This is only my idea, may be I am wrong, but this,
what, I think.


----------



## unknownpleasures

cguria said:


> If there was no investor confidence, we wouldn't have seen such incredible recovery over the past two years.
> 
> People poured their money into projects by developers with little or no history, out of greed, in areas of Dubai such as DSC which has seen projects slowly come back to life recently. The world economy crashed and I agree the property bubble became too big leading to a big bust.
> 
> You are correct here, RERA approved developers at the time was not enough unfortunately. The country is still very young and so is the legal system, any investment off plan is a gamble. The government did little to protect investors at the time but over the last few years the laws have been updated with pre-construction land ownership laws, escrow accounts, mandatory SPA inclusions to protect the investor. Some developers have run away and may never come back and some are returning to finish what they started. For those who have run away, I don't know if the money will be returned after chasing the courts but I know that any launch today the protection offered is much more comforting than in 2008.
> 
> We don't want the market to return to what it once was which was out of control with little regulation. We want a stable market run by developers who will deliver products even through the tough times, and a controlled stream of new supply.
> 
> Along with many family and friends we are also still stuck in many projects. Nakheel is a different story who suffered the most with the biggest projects off-plan during the crisis and I would not trust them with any investment because of the way their business is run, the general quality of construction they provide and the way they treat existing customers. However, things are looking bright even on their end with recent massive profit declarations.. they will also eventually deliver what was promised. #restartPJA


Out of greed?? How would an investor know the difference when they are registered with RERA? Certainly not greed but full faith in the project from the genuine investor was at full speed, instead not delivered..Perhaps you shouldn't generalise like that, as sure there may have been speculators but this was not every investor because many only purchased one, they were the real investor, those who purchased 2,3,4,5,6,7 you could say this was perhaps greed. 

Not sure which ones in DSC have come to light, there are still those that no one knows who the developer is or how to contact. RERA has been there for many years now, they are hopeless as they do nothing and there has been no improvement there at all.

The govt in Dubai require to fix it so that investors do have faith in the projects that have been abandoned, there is none and no communication and that is the worst part of all. I know many just like you do who have only sand to contend with and no one willing to contact.

DSC was touted to be the sporting arena of the world not so sure it was something to be ignored as agents were stating all this as well with guarantees attached to it - one such guarantee was that the govt of Dubai guaranteed all this, the Sheik when he opened up Dubailand, DSC is part of Dubailand....I'm sure it is.


----------



## AppleMac

cguria said:


> #restartPJA


That was what gave me greatest laugh at Cityscape - restart Palm JA or Deira - they cant even finish Palm Jumeirah!. I went for a drive round it 2 days ago and the actual number of sites still not started is amazing for a project that started over a decade ago. But worse than that is the Marina - that project was the first major project in the Emirates and it is still a vast building site with many half built and abandoned projects and lots that didn't start at all.

So I am afraid that all these grandiose announcements for projects like Mohammed bin Rashid City I treat with an immense amount of scepticism.


----------



## True Blue

If they restarted Palm Jebel Ali tomorrow, it would take 10 years before it was a place you could enjoy living in.


----------



## sandstone

Athar said:


> I can recommend MENA PROPERTIES the owner is from the UK


Thanks Athar! I'll look into it.


----------



## Akasha

What a dire press release 'he got the keys to a two bedroom villa'? - lol erm really?! Can't they tell the difference between and apartment and a villa?

With regards to the canal, the contractor I spoke to, said at least a year.

I'm still waiting for the bank management to do final approvals and pay the last installment - waiting, waiting, waiting - but light at the end of this very very loooooooooong tunnel.


----------



## zic320

cguria said:


> Has anybody else here been approached by Enshaa or Bond Lawyers? The are the official lawyers for PV and D1 and have all the information regarding these projects. They approached us seeking solutions to move forward and we are now negotiating with them.


Hi, what are you negotiating exactly?


----------



## VR6

shah100 said:


> Hi Looks like everybody has gone silent.
> Latest on the town houses
> 
> 3 Block of town houses ready. Decoration work is going on.
> Showhouse is ready.
> 
> Next three blocks are starting from Nov.
> 
> If you have any news pl come on the forum.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Shah


Shah, how exactly do you know this? Not to doubt your integrity, but it appears contrary to what Podium has said.


----------



## jp resident

anyone else got an email with community charges ?
desert rose ? how much per sq/f please.
thanks


----------



## unknownpleasures

"Khalid Al Zarooni, President of Dubai Sports City, handed over the keys to a two-bedroom villa to Mr Paresh Naveen Chendrai Jhaveri."

Well thank you Mam for bringing that to everyone's attention. Poor old Scissors fell for it and so did the man - villa v apartment (now which one was that). :cheers:


----------



## unknownpleasures

Did you see the internals - it's on the link above?


----------



## unknownpleasures

They start, stop, then re-release (hoping people won't remember), look at the Pad by Omniyat, it's been re-launched. Who in their right mind would touch it with a 10 foot pole. Why doesn't the govt stick to what they say will happen and not go around playing musical chairs from year to year. People are tiring of Cityscape, reason why the numbers are getting lower. The lego sets are no longer convincing anyone!


----------



## MaaaD

they have selected apartments left expecting delivery in September 2014 and prices are in the range of 1600-2000 psf show apartment is available for viewing.


----------



## UweW

*I want to live there!*



Pleth said:


> And who would live in the middle of a roundabout??


I want to live there, but I am not shure, wheter it's ready this century??


----------



## lazmic

The main website (www.mytowerdubai.com) has not been updated for weeks. Problems again... grrr


----------



## firoz bharmal

Now Pearl should follow like old Dubai projects which is already started...!


----------



## bister

*Dubai Pearl Cant Pay Their Dues*



firoz bharmal said:


> Now Pearl should follow like old Dubai projects which is already started...!


Dubai Pearl defaulted on a refund agreement for two units. I waited for 1 year for them to pay but have no option to go the legal route and have now won at all three court instances. Throughout the process they have played delay tactics and even now they refuse to come to the table and pay us with they owe and what the Supreme Court of the UAE has ordered them to pay.

A developer flaunting Supreme Court vedicts....you want to invest with these guys? I will now go public with my story, I trust the honourable Al Fahim family will finally wake up and settle their dues rather than tarnish their reputation. Running away from an IOU is just bad style.


----------



## shah100

*Regal Row Town Houses*

Hi
I am sure 3 Blocks are ready up to roof level decoration work is going on and show house is ready.

Best thing visit yourself. As I am not in Dubai but sending my representative to visit the Regal Row Town Houses and take pictures.

Regards,

Shah


----------



## UAE Investor

Akasha said:


> What a dire press release 'he got the keys to a two bedroom villa'? - lol erm really?! Can't they tell the difference between and apartment and a villa?
> 
> With regards to the canal, the contractor I spoke to, said at least a year.
> 
> I'm still waiting for the bank management to do final approvals and pay the last installment - waiting, waiting, waiting - but light at the end of this very very loooooooooong tunnel.


Any news on your snagging yet.


----------



## chefdude

Your problem is that the developer is not making the necessary effort in terms of man power to push this project forward at a realistic pace. To effectively build a highrise tower like this there should be 200 + workers in action at any time. From what I have seen looking down on it there are maybe 20 - 30 that's why they are pouring only 1 floor every month or so instead of every 7 - 10 days.

Until they employ a full workforce this is simply going to stagnate.


----------



## jp resident

*Fly screens*

Has anyone got any luck with installing fly screens ?
I don't really know who to contact and more so how to put fly screens on master bedroom and living room doors, since they open to outside. 
Any ideas ?
Thanks


----------



## ClareB

*Latest update from DSC on European Building*

This latest update just received for European Building

"With regards to European Building, expected completion date is January,2014 and handover of the apartments will be Feb/March,2014."


----------



## MikeMuz

UAE Investor said:


> Another round of investors cash to call on now.....no intention of ever completing just floors=cash call as in RERA regulations. Regulations that the likes of Memon and Rufi to pile up skeletons in the desert and still get the majority of there money, leaving investors with nothing in the end? hno:


So has everything gone according to plan with your investment Amplesou.???


----------



## cguria

bister said:


> Dubai Pearl defaulted on a refund agreement for two units. I waited for 1 year for them to pay but have no option to go the legal route and have now won at all three court instances. Throughout the process they have played delay tactics and even now they refuse to come to the table and pay us with they owe and what the Supreme Court of the UAE has ordered them to pay.
> 
> A developer flaunting Supreme Court vedicts....you want to invest with these guys? I will now go public with my story, I trust the honourable Al Fahim family will finally wake up and settle their dues rather than tarnish their reputation. Running away from an IOU is just bad style.


Good luck to you!

What % have you paid if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## shotcaller

Does anyone know if ground works have started for Package 7 (ie. the Legacy Nova villas which were launched in June) or is too early to be asking this question since this is Nakheel we are talking about


----------



## UAE Investor

MikeMuz said:


> So has everything gone according to plan with your investment Amplesou.???


there,s no proof ,that i am wrong about Memon yet!

They are certainly taking the preverbial with investors..it,s almost other worldy what they are allowed to get away with in these lets say modern times.

but lets face it these threads are just full of burnt investors ....not here for the real issues

they contribute f/all imop, and completey boring nonsence

when did any of you post some up to date pictues apart from rob T ...just google,d old rubbish.

CRW ,just forget it ....


----------



## Rob Timpie

I understand your point of view, but the big problem is we are all captured in a situation with regulations that are not particularly in favour of investors.
Nobody is able to sell their apartment and if you stop paying you risk loosing all your money.
The only choise is staying in and hoping that they finish the building sometime.
What can we do???
It's a bit of rushian roulette... :bash:


----------



## Akasha

UAE Investor said:


> Any news on your snagging yet.


????? The snagging was done at the beginning of July! Waiting for the bank to finalise everything - taking their sweet time at the moment:nuts:


----------



## santori

shotcaller said:


> Does anyone know if ground works have started for Package 7 (ie. the Legacy Nova villas which were launched in June) or is too early to be asking this question since this is Nakheel we are talking about


Hi Shotcaller, yes, the ground works are in full swing...I know this because I'm living in my villa in sector P (Package 5A) and the legacy novas are bordering my boundary walls...you can actually the see the construction being in full swing due to the cranes rising up and they manage to make quite a racket. The work is being conducted behind a white boarding but you can witness it if you head from the back of JP towards Jumeirah Village Triangle/Emirates road via Al Worood 2 street....


----------



## shotcaller

Hi Santori. Many thanks for the info


----------



## unknownpleasures

Doomed ? Promises? Heard it all before. When all was looking good, man this is outta this world, the snagging would be the last thing before handover, 4 months and still nothing re med, 2016 for the venetian ? Anyone could die waiting.


----------



## man city fc

unknownpleasures said:


> Doomed ? Promises? Heard it all before. When all was looking good, man this is outta this world, the snagging would be the last thing before handover, 4 months and still nothing re med, 2016 for the venetian ? Anyone could die waiting.


Keep up Kermit, the Med has been handed over! European is next....not long now, 2014 will see an ever improving economic outlook across all regions ;-) Plenty of football teams will be in dsc over the next few winter months ;-)


----------



## True Blue

It's more of this kind of project that Dubai needs to concentrate on. A lot of its coastline is not accessible due to Hotels and other large villas etc, hogging the beaches. Opening up the coastline will be a good move.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/kt-arti...r/government_October64.xml&section=government


----------



## worried4

*Collecting returns*

Folks,

Now that the hotel is open, how does a Non-resident open a UAE dirham account to collect the guaranteed return?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

You mean the torch will be within walking distance of burj al arab after all. Awesome. :lol:


----------



## agod

I dont think it is starting at the Marina End, its from the Burj going into Dubai, as it says it meeting the Canal, and the 6 Districts are probably all the Jumeirah's one, two. 3 and 4 etc.


----------



## Steverobo

UAE Investor said:


> SAVE ...WORK HARDER ?
> 
> Walk away and concede the balance to DSC
> 
> credit card / remortgage your existing property etc
> 
> recieve free money from someone
> 
> when,s your birthday?
> 
> Hope this helps .......................................!
> :nuts:


I was after some constructive advise ! this sort of s**t doesn't help :bash:


----------



## pelemiller5

*BAY CENTRAL ON THE 28/10/13*



pelemiller5 said:


> Hi m8, if your there do you know anyone wanting to rent out 11/11/13 to 21/11/13, 1 bed only 1 adult staying.


So after all the tribulations what's it like at B/C after 18 months, we all know it was nothing like sold, but like a lot of projects has the location saved the day for its future, is it a nice place to live and has it attracted the right type of people such a brilliant location deserves.
Pelemiller


----------



## IBROX

kuttika said:


> thanks for the advice. Can you recommend any buildings


As 'umbutti' said.

Do not touch this Company.


----------



## tempbond

Hi Pleth,

Please check your PM.


----------



## skkappi

Wac said:


> Same problem here. They are willing to adjust my PIM money but asking me to buy another apartment much more bigger and expensive. I'm waiting for the building to reach at the final floor and then will talk to these thieves. They cannot run away with our money.


I thought our flats sold to other people and they(almasah) say if you want money please ask PIM about your money.
we don't know about they are


----------



## kamenoff

Guys, I am selling my unit in Elite 5...2 bed, canal/ "lake" facing, on 9th floor.
If somebody is interested please PM me.


----------



## Green Hornet

Jumeirah Corniche is a fantastic project.

I do think also it could do with a few cafes/small restaurants spread along.


----------



## wissam11

Dear all,
I went to see DEC today (Roosvet again). He informed me of the following:

- DEC has registered the units in our names (Lawns 5), but we have to pay 3000 for this
- To get the title deed at handover, its 2% to be paid to Dubai Land Dept.
- (by the way, if you want to sell your unit now, its 4% from the seller, and 4% from the buyer....since it is off plan)

- I was on site this morning. Lawns 4 is upto 3rd floor in blockwork. Around 20 people on site
- Lawns 5, 20 additional people doing basement work
- Pictures attached

Things are starting to look up I think.


----------



## UAE Investor

kamenoff said:


> Guys, I am selling my unit in Elite 5...2 bed, canal/ "lake" facing, on 9th floor.
> If somebody is interested please PM me.


do you mean if i buy it ,you won,t be on here grumbling and taking side with the wrong people any more?

Name your price!
:nuts:


----------



## Akasha

So has anyone on here actually had their apartment handed over? I'm getting annoyed with the bank now. Got told yesterday, they are still in negotiations with DSC and they don't have a time frame as to when everything will be sorted. Super frustrating.


----------



## basheer.mohammad

Akasha said:


> So has anyone on here actually had their apartment handed over? I'm getting annoyed with the bank now. Got told yesterday, they are still in negotiations with DSC and they don't have a time frame as to when everything will be sorted. Super frustrating.


What are they negotiating about?


----------



## AW.

*Villa Extension*



santori said:


> Hi All, I know this has been briefely discussed in the past but can anyone please share info on contractors/cost/experience with villa extensions? Specifically, I'm in a 3 bed small legacy and thinking of extending the doors to the loggia to include the patio in the built up area. My impression is that this extension is being undertaken by a number of residents since it makes a lot of sense.
> 
> If you have had a villa extension done, can you share any names/contact number for suggested contractors who did good work and knew the process?
> 
> And in terms of getting the necessary approvals from Nakheel, how long did the process take?
> 
> In terms of cost, Nakheel has indicated that they will charge 2,500 aed DCUP fees for conditional approval and then 200 aed per sq. ft (which seems like daylight robbery, but oh well...). If you have had a loggia villa extension done, can you please share cost estimates? Thanks.


Hello, 

I am giving you details of two contracting companies who are currently doing these extensions in some villa's in Jumeirah Park. I don't know them personally neither have I dealt with them. I have just noted their details from the notice posted outside the respective villa's they are working on. 

1. www.eurocoorg.com - Has covered the loggia area as well as the balconies of the master bedroom in 3B Legacy Large. Is making a concrete swimming pool and other massive alterations inside the villa. 
2. www.mepexcontracting.com - Has covered loggia and installed a swimming pool. 

One word of caution. Please be careful when dealing with civil contractors. Lot of bad apples out there. Lot of misinformation out there. I have heard that some have a tendency to start alterations first and seek approvals at the same time. Its a total disaster after that trying to convince Nakheel & Trakees to approve after that. 

And please supervise personally when they are breaking down any walls. I have seen villas where contractors have broken the concrete beams / pillars exposing iron rods inside. Looked as if "The Hulk" had paid a visit.


----------



## Flora of Arabia

Hi just back from Dubai and have finally got our apartment!! MED. We paid them, got water electricity handed over, brought white goods, chased up snagging and left it with a agent in 3 days. Very pleased. 

My advice if you are from overseas be firm with DSC. your time frame is non negotiable. Factor in a day to actually check stuff is happening. (like snagging) 

I hope you guys who are still waiting hear some news soon. There is work going on I can't see it being too long x


----------



## man city fc

Flora of Arabia said:


> Hi just back from Dubai and have finally got our apartment!! MED. We paid them, got water electricity handed over, brought white goods, chased up snagging and left it with a agent in 3 days. Very pleased. My advice if you are from overseas be firm with DSC. your time frame is non negotiable. Factor in a day to actually check stuff is happening. (like snagging) I hope you guys who are still waiting hear some news soon. There is work going on I can't see it being too long x


Many Congratulations, it has been a long road, but there is now light at the end of the tunnel!


----------



## unknownpleasures

Akasha said:


> So has anyone on here actually had their apartment handed over? I'm getting annoyed with the bank now. Got told yesterday, they are still in negotiations with DSC and they don't have a time frame as to when everything will be sorted. Super frustrating.





Flora of Arabia said:


> Hi just back from Dubai and have finally got our apartment!! MED. We paid them, got water electricity handed over, brought white goods, chased up snagging and left it with a agent in 3 days. Very pleased.
> 
> My advice if you are from overseas be firm with DSC. your time frame is non negotiable. Factor in a day to actually check stuff is happening. (like snagging)
> 
> I hope you guys who are still waiting hear some news soon. There is work going on I can't see it being too long x


^^^^^Looks like it. DSC not arranging agent now ?


----------



## [email protected]

Did everybody get the status report sent a few days back from Giovanni Customer service?


----------



## unknownpleasures

Handover Feb 2015?? - has this restarted?

Multiple 2BR available for sale in EDEN GARDEN with both Canal and Golf View

PAYMENT PLAN IS AS BELOW.


25% DOWN PAYMENT

15% JANUARY 2014

15% EVERY 3 MONTHS.

15% HANDOVER APP 28/2/2015

Structure Of The Eden Garden Dubai Real Estate Project Eden Garden is a 25-storeyed residential complex (developed by Ali Asger & Brother LLC, Dubai and Lokhandwala Builders, India) 

found here http://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/buy/apartment-for-sale-dubai-dubai-sports-city-1405541.html?img/0


----------



## BlueBath

[email protected] said:


> Did everybody get the status report sent a few days back from Giovanni Customer service?


.... ^^ nothing ....


----------



## Akasha

basheer.mohammad said:


> What are they negotiating about?


No idea. But I know they haven't made the final payment yet. Given that mortgaged apartments have a tri-part agreement, the bank have to do their own snagging etc etc

Just got told to wait, and that's all the info I have.


----------



## fahmed82339

*Investor Selling Property*

Hi Investor 

I read your post about selling the property and i think you should either wait for it to be completed in a few months and get a better price for it or you should just keep it and gain the sweet rental yields from it. You waited sooo long whats another 3-4 months. Market is also on the up so best time to sell it once it been handed over.

Things are certainly progressing cause elite have announced elite residence 8 aswell yesterday.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Why don't they just finish projects, the canal in DSC isn't filled with water just sand. The promised boulevard and shops would help make it something of an attraction.


----------



## nuanda

No..


----------



## nuanda

Can anyone fw it to us?


----------



## delangel

*2% or 4%?*

Does anyone have the answer to should we be expected to pay 4% regsteration fees or 2% as the unit is purchased direct from the developer? 
We were also shocked to hear about the parking space as we hadn't agreed to have one in our contract that was signed in 2009. How can they expect people to pay an extra 45k AED without giving us any notice? 

hno:Surely we should be compensated as the completion date is 2 yrs after that on the signed contract?


----------



## Wac

Hi All; 
I want to sell my 2B+1 (maid) apartment in Autumn cluster. Serious buyers please contact me directly.


----------



## kamenoff

Guys, I am still here and putting my 2 bed Unt for sale doesn't mean that it is sold already...I checked yesterday the units for sale in DSC and the list is quite long...Who knows how long I have to wait to sell it but for sure I am not desperate!


----------



## UAE Investor

man city fc said:


> Great 2% it is then!



No..it's 4%

Article is wrong!


----------



## sicbaldi

*Nets and Dwell*

Hi JP residents, 
anyone could recommend a good company for the mosquitos nets, please? 
Also, anyone with a dwell? Any good? 
Thanks
Sergio


----------



## man city fc

UAE Investor said:


> No..it's 4% Article is wrong!


'The first direct sale from developer to buyer will remain at 2%'

Even if this is now 4% and the article is incorrect, my 2006 contract states 2%.


----------



## Munster Dude

Hi all, do you have any update in relation to the completion cert approval? Thanks a lot


----------



## AW.

*Security Related*

I am quite sure this is a generic experience faced by everyone. 

1. People walking inside and up to the front door to sell their gardening, curtain/carpets, maintenance services etc. Sometimes they are in car and keep looking at you before parking next to you and approaching you with brochures and visiting cards. 
2. People approaching you to sell pirated DVD's!
3. Cars, Pick Up Vans and Mini Trucks driving at full speed as if it was Dubai Autodrome. Sometimes they take short cuts and drive through the paved walking areas between villa's which is a strictly walking designated area. 

Well some may say (and I would agree to some extent) that this is Dubai and its very safe here. Nakheel Security Cars and Bikes keep going around throughout the day. In the night I have seen them patrolling every two hours which is good. 

But the fact that anyone can have unrestricted access to walk up to your door or approach you is quite unsettling. 

Please write/email to Nakheel and keep following up until they set up appropriate security gates to restrict access by unauthorized people.


----------



## AW.

*Fly Bug Mosquito Netting*



jp resident said:


> Has anyone got any luck with installing fly screens ?
> I don't really know who to contact and more so how to put fly screens on master bedroom and living room doors, since they open to outside.
> Any ideas ?
> Thanks





sicbaldi said:


> Hi JP residents,
> anyone could recommend a good company for the mosquitos nets, please?
> Also, anyone with a dwell? Any good?
> Thanks
> Sergio


I tried googling for similar experiences in Jumeirah Islands, Triangle etc. Didn't find any good leads. I could only find reference of Rolli International which specializes in fly netting.

Other alternative is the "Insect Fly Bug Mosquito Door Net Netting Mesh Screen" which is typically offered on TV Shopping/Online Shopping. Approx cost is AED 80/100 but it covers only the door. Our doors and windows are too big for this I guess. 

Hoping someone comes up with a good suggestion.


----------



## Tuscano

Hi Stubluekpl,

Both clusters have been handed over few months ago. Pools are open, and the furniture should not take long to be delivered. 

While discussing with neighbors, i understood that cluster West is more occupied than the East for some unknown reasons. 

As for the service charge, i heard that it is around 20k for a 3br, 2600sqft.

I am discussing with several tenants and owners, and everyone is happy to see that Nakheel is finally finishing some works and making this community better and better. However, i believe that we still need a year to have a fully completed ad running community.

Hope to count you as a neighbor soon


----------



## delangel

*Thanks*

Thanks UP for your reply - so we should be ok asking Triplanet if we can only pay 2% as we purchased our unit off plan 4 yrs ago?


----------



## Sportscity

Got the project update from giovanni team about 2 weeks ago. Looks encouraging enough. Hard to say about handover... Mid or End of next year?? Any takers?.. Also 
No names on newsletter... Dr RC out of picture or just lying low??... Regards
0 Likes


----------



## Sportscity

Any way of ensuring quality of internal fittings are up to the mark and as promised in the beginning..... A looong time ago!!
Just a thought...may be something to worry about much later?


----------



## sgn7200

Hi Berliner 01! Thanks for some update. It is a pity there has been no info. under this thread for a long time. It is bit difficult to comprehend as to what does this all mean. Can someone please put a comment whether there is a change in the situation i.e. someone else is getting on board to bring some life in the project. Or should we just ignore this as a non-event. Please do come forward and give your opinion. Cheers for the present.


----------



## Salim

B2B Tower has been acquired by the DEVELOPER PROPERTIES LLC, as I have been
informed by KM ??????......:nuts:


----------



## m_nasef

jp resident said:


> We have just finished the Trakhees approval process. Well our pool contractor.
> We started on the 26 August and we got the final COC thursday. 9 weeks !
> It has been a nightmare. Trakhees were ridiculous in their demands. I had to sign a non objection for workers to use my toilets !
> We will definitely not go with another approval process for landscaping. We will just stick with the guidelines.
> Officially, trakhees has now been "absorbed" by Dubai Municipality.
> 
> Has anyone had any luck with the fly screens ?


Hi JP resident,

Can you share your experience with what causes such delay in approval? I just got the NOC from Nakheel and about to start the NOC with Trakhees, hoping to complete is within Dec to start the work and catch the nice weather! Seems I'm a dreaming!


----------



## yabani

Just back from Dubai. While going up the elevator one day to my apartment, I saw a Realtor/Salesman with a couple (customers) - he was telling them about how beautiful this place is (basically trying to make a sale) and he told them about the Gym, Pool, Business Center, Pizza Express Jazz, UBK, distance from Metro, etc. until the elevator arrived and we got in, there were at least two other residents in the elevator, and all of a sudden, one lady in the elevator said: "The Biggest Problem In this building is The Elevators" - and I could see the expression on the salesman face: "What a wrong timing!". The lady won't stop, she said, The Other Problem is Garbage! The red light & Buzzer of the Disposer has been going on for daaays! 

I could see the expression on the face of the Sales/Realtor! He was saying: What the **** - she's just ruined a possible deal.

I tried to come into rescue: I said, as to the Garbage, please force open the Disposer, and deposit your garbage. She said: But you're not supposed to do that when the light is on" - I said, it's a False Alarm, it's been going on since 10th of Octber, 2013. Just ignore it, and it should work. I have seen the building's maintenance personnel do that.

The salesman/Realtor went: "Phew! OK, so that is one problem solved!"

Then I walked out of the elevator as it reached my floor.


----------



## Akasha

Apparently DSC are getting very annoyed with the mortgage provider banks as they're dragging their heels BIG time.

Good news is, apparently the 1 beds are renting out between 60-65k and people are happily paying it - this is great!

European building is apparently being snagged and handed over from next month, so they're desperate to finish up with the Med so they can start on that. They've handed over more than 40 apartments in the Med building so far. If you have any issues, call DSC and speak to Catherine - she's brilliant and is a total butt kicker to get things done.


----------



## The_Count

very interested in a villa here. what the prices and deal, down payemnt, ect on this?

Hopefully it happens


----------



## mark_burley

Hi The_Count, we have just paid 20% deposit, 541,000 AED for a 3 bedroom villa in Queens Meadow. Next instalment is 1st Jan for a further 10%. Now there is also 4% fee to Dubai Land Dept.

DEPOSIT
20%
Immediate 01-NOV-13
1ST INSTALLMENT
0%
2ND INSTALLMENT
10%
On or Before 01-JAN-14
3RD INSTALLMENT
10%
On or Before 01-MAR-14
4TH INSTALLMENT
15%
On or Before 01-JUN-14
5TH INSTALLMENT
15%
On or Before 01-SEP-14
6TH INSTALLMENT
15%
On or Before 01-NOV-14
7TH INSTALLMENT
15%
On Possession

Hope this helps...


----------



## Pleth

Can anybody enlighten me as to what the rules are regarding the housing tax?
I am paying 80.000 Aed rent yearly but Dewa is charging me 650 Aed per month in housing tax.
Is the tax based on the rent or on the size of apartment?


----------



## TimH

Just purchased a 2 bed community view in West Cluster!
Can't wait to move in after the tenants move out in April.

Could someone do me a favour and post the measurement of the fridge space width? I want to know if a double door fridge fits... They're all 912mm wide and need a few cms each side so I'm hoping the space is 950mm..


----------



## agod

I think its 5% 0f the Rental Value, in your case you paying to much...........on 8000 should be 4000 per Annum, divided by 12 is 333 Per Month.

Thats my understanding.

Al


----------



## jprp

AW. said:


> I am quite sure this is a generic experience faced by everyone.
> 
> 1. People walking inside and up to the front door to sell their gardening, curtain/carpets, maintenance services etc. Sometimes they are in car and keep looking at you before parking next to you and approaching you with brochures and visiting cards.
> 2. People approaching you to sell pirated DVD's!
> 3. Cars, Pick Up Vans and Mini Trucks driving at full speed as if it was Dubai Autodrome. Sometimes they take short cuts and drive through the paved walking areas between villa's which is a strictly walking designated area.
> 
> Well some may say (and I would agree to some extent) that this is Dubai and its very safe here. Nakheel Security Cars and Bikes keep going around throughout the day. In the night I have seen them patrolling every two hours which is good.
> 
> But the fact that anyone can have unrestricted access to walk up to your door or approach you is quite unsettling.
> 
> Please write/email to Nakheel and keep following up until they set up appropriate security gates to restrict access by unauthorized people.



Hello all,

Yes AW that is an excellent point. When we bought our villa we were told this was set to be a gated community and there is still no sign of any such thing. I too have been emailing nakheel about this with no reply whatsoever of course, you would think I bought a kg of apples from them not a property! Which email are you sending too?? I hope more people will email re the gates hopefully it can make a difference!


----------



## building1

sgn7200 said:


> Hi Berliner 01! Thanks for some update. It is a pity there has been no info. under this thread for a long time. It is bit difficult to comprehend as to what does this all mean. Can someone please put a comment whether there is a change in the situation i.e. someone else is getting on board to bring some life in the project. Or should we just ignore this as a non-event. Please do come forward and give your opinion. Cheers for the present.


This project was bought by Orra LLC. They developed the Orra Marina, which was handed over at the beginning of this year. Harbour Residence will be restarted at the beginning of 2014 with handover at the end of 2016. The developer showed the project at Cityscape in October. You should be safe...


----------



## jp resident

It took us 8 days to get Nakheel approval, then had to apply for TRAKEES NOC. That took 5 days, then CED required (another week) and finally COC. That took two weeks because contractor needed his guys to get fire training etc... Add Eid holidays and Islamic New Year holidays and you get a delay of 9 weeks.
And that's with a straightforward pool and nothing special.
Crazy and money each time. After the pool is finished we will need to pally for completion NOC.


----------



## Josau

agod said:


> I think its 5% 0f the Rental Value, in your case you paying to much...........on 8000 should be 4000 per Annum, divided by 12 is 333 Per Month.
> 
> Thats my understanding.
> 
> Al


Agod you are correct. It is 5% of the rent for tenants per year. Go to DEWA and have it adjusted, it should be an easy procedure, I had it done.


----------



## Spurs

Josau said:


> Agod you are correct. It is 5% of the rent for tenants per year. Go to DEWA and have it adjusted, it should be an easy procedure, I had it done.


It's not dewa it's the municipality you need to visit to get it correctly adjusted. I'm going to al manara center near safa park to do mine.


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> Can anybody enlighten me as to what the rules are regarding the housing tax?
> I am paying 80.000 Aed rent yearly but Dewa is charging me 650 Aed per month in housing tax.
> Is the tax based on the rent or on the size of apartment?


I just got my first DEWA bill with housing fees attached and it was also 650AED but just for my 1 bed.


----------



## Tuscano

TimH said:


> Just purchased a 2 bed community view in West Cluster!
> Can't wait to move in after the tenants move out in April.
> 
> Could someone do me a favour and post the measurement of the fridge space width? I want to know if a double door fridge fits... They're all 912mm wide and need a few cms each side so I'm hoping the space is 950mm..


Hi TimH


Congratulations!
For the fridge, I suggest you ask the tenants / owners in JH directly

www.facebook.com/JumeirahHeights

All the best


----------



## The_Count

mark_burley said:


> Hi The_Count, we have just paid 20% deposit, 541,000 AED for a 3 bedroom villa in Queens Meadow. Next instalment is 1st Jan for a further 10%. Now there is also 4% fee to Dubai Land Dept.
> 
> DEPOSIT
> 20%
> Immediate 01-NOV-13
> 1ST INSTALLMENT
> 0%
> 2ND INSTALLMENT
> 10%
> On or Before 01-JAN-14
> 3RD INSTALLMENT
> 10%
> On or Before 01-MAR-14
> 4TH INSTALLMENT
> 15%
> On or Before 01-JUN-14
> 5TH INSTALLMENT
> 15%
> On or Before 01-SEP-14
> 6TH INSTALLMENT
> 15%
> On or Before 01-NOV-14
> 7TH INSTALLMENT
> 15%
> On Possession
> 
> Hope this helps...


Mark,

Thank you very much for the information. I am quite interested, but need to do my homework with the locals to see the direction of the area and the project. 

Lets keep this thread updated. However, In terms of the plans and designs. Seems like a one of the better project at the moment.


----------



## Rob Timpie

Received a message from Memon today that they are working to complete 1 and half level every month now...


----------



## dubayyy

Hi

Is the new 4% land transaction fee applicable only to property transfers i.e. resales or is it applicable to new property registrations too?


----------



## Akasha

UAE Investor said:


> yeah we had about four hours to go from memory.
> 
> thats about £2400 for a one bed i think,more if a 2 bed..mmm!
> 
> It might be a killer for some,asuming they have,nt just bought a hole in the ground like the oasis mob!
> 
> yeah they won,t be paying even 1%...silver lining an all that !


The problem was/is that those of us with mortgages and banks faffing about, were'nt even given the opportunity to pay the 2% - because of the tri-part agreement, the bank hadn't yet fulfilled their part, so now we're stuck having to pay because of their **** up basically. 2,400 pounds for a 1 bed? er no! Try adding at LEAST another 1,000 pounds to that figure.


----------



## santori

whats happened on this forum? It seems like a bunch of the most recent posts just got deleted...the most recent post I can see is from AW on Nov 7th and then its jprp from Sep 12th!....what happened to the posts in the middle?

If someone has any insights into this and it turns out we are reaching some sort of a limit on this online forum, it might be time to move to the facebook page to keep the resource going...


----------



## unknownpleasures

I agree no investor should be penalised to pay 4%, this percentage requires to be passed onto the developer to pay in total for causing the issue of delays (years) in the first instance. 

Are all the threads taboo again in DSC!! hno:


----------



## agod

I wish you would get your Facts Right.

Its still 2%, one paid by the Developer, and one paid by the Investor, thats for the First Sale from the Developer, the 4% is only Paid on the Future Re-Sales, 2% Seller and 2% Buyer.

A.


----------



## Pleth

chefdude said:


> True Blue your advice is sound in general but personally if I was investing I would have trusted the recent off plan from Emaar in downtown next to the metro station to be delivered. I think an established and quality developer with a sizable delivered portfolio does not represent the same gamble as the minnows.
> 
> However their customer service is still pretty shocking!


IMHO I would never trust Emaar with off plans.....!


----------



## unknownpleasures

agod said:


> I wish you would get your Facts Right.


^^^^^^^^?????????? Who?



> Its still 2%, one paid by the Developer, and one paid by the Investor, thats for the First Sale from the Developer, the 4% is only Paid on the Future Re-Sales, 2% Seller and 2% Buyer.A






unknownpleasures said:


> http://dev.arabianbusiness.com/property-transfer-fee-double-from-sunday-520527.html
> .





> Arabian Business revealed exclusively on Thursday that the tax will increase from 2 percent to 4 percent of the sale price for all properties, except the first direct sale from a developer to buyer, which will remain at 2 percent





Akasha said:


> Actually no the article is incorrect - it's 4%. Have to pay it.





Akasha said:


> The land department! The Editor got it wrong in that article. It's 4% across the board.


??????


----------



## UAE Investor

agod said:


> I wish you would get your Facts Right.
> 
> Its still 2%, one paid by the Developer, and one paid by the Investor, thats for the First Sale from the Developer, the 4% is only Paid on the Future Re-Sales, 2% Seller and 2% Buyer.
> 
> A.


whish you would get your facts right !!!!

In DSC maybe not where you reside ?(DM)

We are mainly talking about DSC (yea i know you made a dodgy investement there!) "Canal residence west" built by master developer DSC ,

In the contract all fees including land register fees have to be paid by the investor period

"""We are DSC and heavly connected.. the word RULE /LAW etc means f/all....and if you don,t like it you can take us to court but then we have no money""" 

Yes i know the norm is 50/50 developer /investor ,but not in this case ,and i would presume most of the cases in DSC would be the same, as all if not most developers in DSC are complete........(well make your own word up) 

I can,t see your investment in memon paying half the land registration can you .....??

Memon na no way.....


----------



## UAE Investor

Akasha said:


> 2,400 pounds for a 1 bed? er no! Try adding at LEAST another 1,000 pounds to that figure.


I think i payed it when the currency was more in my favour
:smug:


----------



## mzee78

Hi
I am thinking of buying a 1 bedroom in Matrix.
But the ad's posted by agents are quoting a much lesd price than what the First Group's sales agent told me over phone. 
Is this a norm in Sports City? Because I had a similar experience with Canal Residence too. 
Can someone guide me about the current price n method to proceed with buying. 
Thanks


----------



## nirajdisha

If anybody intends to sell please contact me on my mail id - [email protected] i need STUDIO APT..


----------



## nirajdisha

If anybody wants to sell their apartment, please mail me on [email protected] i am interested to buy STUDIO APARTMENT.


----------



## Josau

nirajdisha said:


> If anybody intends to sell please contact me on my mail id - [email protected] i need STUDIO APT..


You need a studio for in about 10 years?:nuts:
And you keep looking for studios all over SCC in projects of Al Masah Int.
You're either badly informed or you work for them.


----------



## True Blue

Rob Timpie said:


> My investment is in Champions Tower 4. Any news from Champions Tower 1?.. Delevery date...? Anybody...? :?





ameelioo said:


> Handover is planned by December 2013 as per their email.





LongLiveDubai said:


> Anyone selling in this tower?


This is becoming farcical now!

Rather than moving the posts without any link to where they came from, perhaps the best action is to delete them. This thread is now cluttered with random posts which mean nothing when they are mixed in with all the rest of the clutter.

Some of the posts look like they would be better left in the threads they were taken from, for example the second one in the list above.


----------



## True Blue

nirajdisha said:


> If anybody wants to sell their apartment, please mail me on [email protected] i am interested to buy STUDIO APARTMENT.





Josau said:


> You need a studio for in about 10 years?:nuts:
> And you keep looking for studios all over SCC in projects of Al Masah Int.
> You're either badly informed or you work for them.


Well spotted Josau 

I never understood people who come on this forum advertising that they want to buy, when Dubizzle or Propertyfinder would better serve their needs. This forum is all about expressing opinions and sharing information, not covert advertising. :bash:


----------



## unknownpleasures

All comments moved are from threads in DSC. It would seem whoever is moving them feels they are better here "investment thread". Seems reminiscent of the days back in 2009 where any reference to the sites was not allowed to be posted in the DSC threads. All this does is causes more confusion when they are moved here, nothing flows.

What is also noticed posts are reduced by the person posting? Why? If their posts are being moved?


----------



## UAE Investor

unknownpleasures said:


> All comments moved are from threads in DSC. It would seem whoever is moving them feels they are better here "investment thread". Seems reminiscent of the days back in 2009 where any reference to the sites was not allowed to be posted in the DSC threads. All this does is causes more confusion when they are moved here, nothing flows.
> 
> What is also noticed posts are reduced by the person posting? Why? If their posts are being moved?


DSC threads have needed to be sorted out for a long time imo.

Some made a complete hash of it, which let to the truly great! pictorial informer! "amplesou" taking his/hers pictures and UP TO date info els-where...?? (along with a ban by the us mod for posting well..lets just leave that !) 

My guess is the new mod (is it "face 81") is trying his/hers best...if the mod in question does,nt know the territory very well then all they can do is rule by the rules i think?

One of the problems here also it,s the domain of very intelligent naturally informative people like TB ,agog,and all the regular here,s ....but no one,s a bigger snob than me... dont get me wrong ,but the regulars here have,nt a clue or any desire to show any interest in new cities being developed just down the road from there gaffs (agog excepted)...

Hence a certain amount of confusion..not for me i have a broader out look!

all things Dubai ( well DSC :lol


----------



## UAE Investor

mzee78 said:


> Hi
> I am thinking of buying a 1 bedroom in Matrix.
> But the ad's posted by agents are quoting a much lesd price than what the First Group's sales agent told me over phone.
> Is this a norm in Sports City? Because I had a similar experience with Canal Residence too.
> Can someone guide me about the current price n method to proceed with buying.
> Thanks


To get a good deal you have to go for a resale..

Developers want maybe 45% over market price,why i have no idea?

you buy off me if you want a good deal in CRw ?


----------



## W40arx

Looks as if some of the posts are missing here!


----------



## unknownpleasures

UAE Investor said:


> DSC threads have needed to be sorted out for a long time imo.
> 
> Some made a complete hash of it, which let to the truly great! pictorial informer! "amplesou" taking his/hers pictures and UP TO date info els-where...?? (along with a ban by the us mod for posting well..lets just leave that !)
> 
> My guess is the new mod (is it "face 81") is trying his/hers best...if the mod in question does,nt know the territory very well then all they can do is rule by the rules i think?
> 
> One of the problems here also it,s the domain of very intelligent naturally informative people like TB ,agog,and all the regular here,s ....but no one,s a bigger snob than me... dont get me wrong ,but the regulars here have,nt a clue or any desire to show any interest in new cities being developed just down the road from there gaffs (agog excepted)...
> 
> Hence a certain amount of confusion..not for me i have a broader out look!
> 
> all things Dubai ( well DSC :lol


Far better pix now imho 

DSC threads were informative at one time until someone got too big for their boots and was kicked out because of abusive content. There are other comments still left on DSC threads by the same person reincarnated. 

Same continues and hasn't changed when ID changed and allowed back in. The site elsewhere is inaccessible has malicious warnings and pix have no real updates. Best to stay there.

Rules ? Each thread allows it except DSC. 

There's a broader knowledge of other places (for some maybe not) - but no confusion here. 

If posts are moved no issue just as long as it has a link attached where it originated from

Posts are moved and poster's comments are decreased at the same time only for some not all.


----------



## shah100

3smiles1day said:


> I spoke with the Siddiq guy face to face and he was proposing to swap my office unit to a residential apartment. They are not building the office unit anymore. He promised to provide me with a proposal and the price I will be paying for the new unit.
> 
> The sad news, or more like disappointing news is, he never came back to me despite my reminders through emails, what's app messages......Is this a scam or is Siddiq simply overwhlemed with suckers like us pestering him to pay up or build up the land? I told him it is not an issue for me to the progressive payment as the unit is being built. He simply ain't interested to discuss at all. We do a lot of talking here and I feel that chasing our own tails.
> 
> Please let this forum hear the comments and thoughts if you have any.


Have you received email from Regal row town houses If You have then you got all answer to your question.


----------



## shah100

Hi Sir

I have received e-mail from Regal Row town houses. I hope everybody have got e-mail from Regal Row town houses. You have got answers to all your questions.

Shah


----------



## UAE Investor

unknownpleasures said:


> Far better pix now imho
> 
> DSC threads were informative at one time until someone got too big for their boots and was kicked out because of abusive content. There are other comments still left on DSC threads by the same person reincarnated.
> 
> Same continues and hasn't changed when ID changed and allowed back in. The site elsewhere is inaccessible has malicious warnings and pix have no real updates. Best to stay there.
> 
> Rules ? Each thread allows it except DSC.
> 
> There's a broader knowledge of other places (for some maybe not) - but no confusion here.
> 
> If posts are moved no issue just as long as it has a link attached where it originated from
> 
> Posts are moved and poster's comments are decreased at the same time only for some not all.


I agree ! posts of mine have been moved here but not reduced,maybe because mine are not full of complete , here say b".......s

Funny that?


----------



## unknownpleasures

UAE Investor said:


> I agree ! posts of mine have been moved here but not reduced,maybe because mine are not full of complete , here say b".......s
> 
> Funny that?


The abusive ones (yours) are not removed or reduced...funny that !!! 

It's not what you know, it's who you know. 

Mine based on fact and suppressed, funny that - those that talk b/s seem to get away with it! Funny that!


----------



## Akasha

agod said:


> I wish you would get your Facts Right.
> 
> Its still 2%, one paid by the Developer, and one paid by the Investor, thats for the First Sale from the Developer, the 4% is only Paid on the Future Re-Sales, 2% Seller and 2% Buyer.
> 
> A.


Well that;s not what DSC have told me or the Land department!!! BOTH have said the investor has to pay 4% and that's from the first handover - developer to buyer. Call and ask yourself if you don't believe me.

Also it clearly states in my unit completion letter (which I have in my hand as I sit here typing this) quote: 

Other charges:
2% of property price + 315 by manager cheque payable to land department - which has now gone to 4%.


----------



## AW.

santori said:


> whats happened on this forum? It seems like a bunch of the most recent posts just got deleted...the most recent post I can see is from AW on Nov 7th and then its jprp from Sep 12th!....what happened to the posts in the middle?
> 
> If someone has any insights into this and it turns out we are reaching some sort of a limit on this online forum, it might be time to move to the facebook page to keep the resource going...


Some of our posts are going to the thread “Property & Investment in Dubai: Your questions about the market”. 

I have noticed the same thing with other frequent users e.g. jprp, m_nasef, jp resident, sicbaldi, durbech, santori, jpcharlie, santori and burakhazar. Their posts are also going on “Property & Investment in Dubai: Your questions about the market”. 

This new thread is a generic forum where all sorts of questions get asked. Our posts get drowned here and more likely to be missed. I have never subscribed to this thread but suddenly my posts are reflecting under this new thread. And I also get updates about posts on this forum. 

Give feedback on [email protected]. I have done the same but they haven’t been able to solve this problem so far. 

Hoping this post shows up in the right thread.


----------



## firoz bharmal

is it on now......?


----------



## agod

Well Akasha, I have Pmed you back.

UAE Investor, how right you are, I do live in my "Marina Bubble" is there Life on the Other Side, yeh your Dead Right about Memon as well, they will never ever pay more than they have to, it would be Novel i they actually built anything First...............oh its Agod, not Agog, theres a Magog and Gog Guardians of London and can be found in the Guildhall.

Agod


----------



## bister

*Building without a valid trade licence......*



firoz bharmal said:


> is it on now......?


After having won a refund on several units at all three court instances (!) we are now trying to execute the claim (other creditors have joined also, one being owed AED15M). One of the major banks confirmed that DP did have an account with them but owed them money.....also we learned that Dubai Pearl have not renewed their free zone trade license, so what ever is going at the site happens with out Dubai Pearl having a valid trade license....food for thought isn't it? Maybe they are quietly siphoning the assets out of one FZ company across to another. Not that we shall be fooled by such shenanigans if applied. Obviously DP need to be refinanced and it will probably happen eventually if the good times roll on, the location is very good and the master plan still looks great. I think it is a management/shareholder issue more than anything else, however would like to hear what other people think in terms of what is stopping progress, other than them owing left, right and centre.....


----------



## unknownpleasures

Since we are on the subject of other places, when is it likely DSC is all going to be completed? In time for 2020 and the expo?? Still looks like a lot of sandpits in most places. No shopping mall and the promised stadia?


----------



## jp resident

What is happening to the JP thread ?


----------



## santori

A few ppl had recently asked about fly screens for the windows in JP villas. I recently got a quotation from a guy and it seems to be an expensive prospect....for just 3 windows, the guy quoted me 1150 aed but these would be custom built, aluminium screens which are then drilled in from the outside (since most windows open towards the inside in JP). The guy seems professional and sounds like he would do a good job but then he was also asking for pretty gopod money. I did not go with him and instead went to Ace hardware in festival city and got a 'do-it-yourself' solution for 60aed which is working quite good....there is no frame but the fly screen goes on pretty easily and it took me only 20 mins to do one window. I suppose one can pay a handy man to put them on but I for one found the Ace hardware solution to be much more economical, especially since the windows are only going to be opening for 3-4 months a year. In case you want to go with the guy who gave me a quotation, his name is Mumtaz and his number is 055-8425995.


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai Airshow: 'Gulf Three' deals will strike fear into rival airlines.

The article was written by Richard Quest. I'm sure tonight he'll be talking a lot regarding these deals on his show Quest Means Business and what it means to rivals of the three biggest airlines in the Gulf.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/17/business/dubai-airshow-emirates-airbus-quest/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Also very disappointed when I read the comments below and how ignorant some people can be.


----------



## noir-dresses

wrong thread, sorry


----------



## unknownpleasures

^^^^^^^^ don't worry, most comments have been shifted from other threads here, maybe it will end up in the right place.


----------



## M.A.K

W40arx, you might want to call Mr Samir. He is the head of the Dubai Star owners committee. He usually has all the updates about the project. His number is +971 56 6802200. He maybe able to help you and please do keep us posted on the forum about what you got to know from him.

Salaam


----------



## jp resident

Thanks Santori. The fly screens you got a quote from are they roll up onesie fixed ? Thanks


----------



## bister

*No Trade License*



firoz bharmal said:


> is it on now......?


The moderator removed my posting yesterday without bothering to explain why. Let me just repeat that we during litigation found proof that Dubai Pearl FZ LLC has not renewed their Jebel Ali FZ trade license, hence are building without a valid trade license. Also one of the major banks during our execution process testified that they were being owed money by Dubai Pearl. This is all in black and white and hardly a surprise given the lack of progress with the project.

I just wish they would get on with construction and respect signed contracts the rulings of the Supreme Court of the UAE.


----------



## UAE Investor

new update 18 /11/13


----------



## unknownpleasures

bister said:


> The moderator removed my posting yesterday without bothering to explain why. Let me just repeat that we during litigation found proof that Dubai Pearl FZ LLC has not renewed their Jebel Ali FZ trade license, hence are building without a valid trade license. Also one of the major banks during our execution process testified that they were being owed money by Dubai Pearl. This is all in black and white and hardly a surprise given the lack of progress with the project.
> 
> I just wish they would get on with construction and respect signed contracts the rulings of the Supreme Court of the UAE.


^^^^^^It's been moved to the investment thread like the rest.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Same as it was 6 months ago - the pool is as dry as the canal in DSC.


----------



## Akasha

I disagree about not having rent caps. Without them, rents will (they already are again) spiral out of control. To say 'if a tenant doesn't like it they can leave' - is totally unrealistic - oh good LL's have propertied where the rent is so high and unrealistic NO ONE can afford to rent it. Pure greed!

The difference between peoples salaries and what they're having to fork out for rent is becoming a major issue again.

Realistic prices and market rates are what's needed. 

I do agree however, that the 12 months notice to ask a tenant to leave is a bit much and this shouldn't be required if someone is selling their property or wanting to move in themselves.


----------



## unknownpleasures

About time.




> Dubai's largest developer bans property agents from flipping off-plan until handover
> Emaar's new rule applies to off-plan units bought by agents under their own names
> By Parag Deulgaonkar Published Monday, November 25, 2013
> 
> Emaar Properties, Dubai’s largest developer, has barred local real estate agents (registered/unregistered) from selling any off-plan property, purchased under their names, until handover, Emirates 24|7 can reveal.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/emir...11-25-1.529154


----------



## unknownpleasures

Tenants also have to learn to live with in their means, if they want to live like kings and queens then pay the correct rental for the area. Nothing to do with greed, the landlord has to live also.

People want to rent something for nothing these days and then not agree when rents go up. It's not up to the tenant to dictate, as TB said if they don't like it move on!

On a separate note the rents are certainly not high in DSC.


----------



## Akasha

Who says people are living beyond their means? Sorry, but I totally disagree with you. There has to be reason on both sides. Rents are going up, salaries are not. Pretty soon, there is going to be a massive divide - the middle classes, as it were, as always are the people being squeezed the most.


----------



## AITU

Akasha said:


> Who says people are living beyond their means? Sorry, but I totally disagree with you. There has to be reason on both sides. Rents are going up, salaries are not. Pretty soon, there is going to be a massive divide - the middle classes, as it were, as always are the people being squeezed the most.


Well I'm a "middle class" landlord with a reason too.... I have a 2 bedroom apartment in Business Bay bought as an investment property. The mortgage is AED 9,000 per month and there is an annual service charge bill of AED 24,000 (an increase of 25% year on year so far, note: also approved by RERA). Total outlay of AED 132,000 per annum.

Rents for the last 3 years have been increased in line with RERA regulations of 5% per annum only, started at AED 80,000 though so now only AED 88,000.

The identical apartment next door was vacated recently and has now rented for AED 135,000. 

So due to the rent cap I'm effectively being penalised with a loss of AED 47,000 per annum because I'm not permitted to ask the market rate of rent by my existing tenant (or a new tenant). So......why bother apart from an improvement in capital value, albeit the same as 2007 levels?

A similar analogy would be that I would of course like to live in Mayfair (read Downtown/BB), however if my budget now only goes as far as accommodation in Wimbledon (read DSC/Mirdiff etc.), then that is where I have to live......


----------



## Sid

Akasha said:


> Who says people are living beyond their means? Sorry, but I totally disagree with you. There has to be reason on both sides. Rents are going up, salaries are not. Pretty soon, there is going to be a massive divide - the middle classes, as it were, as always are the people being squeezed the most.


Welcome to the capitalist society


----------



## True Blue

If you have a tenant and you want an increase in the rental then you need to factor in the possibility that the tenant will leave and it might take 1 or 2 months to find a new tenant. That void period will knock 15% off the value of the rental income, therefore insisting on the full market increase and not being prepared to negotiate might be a mistake.

At the end of the day, if a landlord asks too much and is greedy then the property will not rent. There is no point having an empty unit earning nothing and incurring maintenance charges and housing fees. So eventually the landlord will have to accept an offer made by a prospective tenant. This is then the market value of the unit and it has been set by a tenants offer. It could then be argued that it is a tenant's market as there are more units than tenants in Dubai.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Better to wait and get a good tenant (only my opinion as everyone is different) who can afford the rent (1 or 2 months wait time is nothing in comparison to having a tenant who doesn't want to pay after 12 months - everything goes up on a yearly basis, I'm sure the utilities all go up don't they, rents have to be looked at in the same way)...A notice to up the rent is what is needed (specified time of either 90 days if the lease is a rollover and prior 30 days or so if the lease is about to end...this 12 months notice is ludicrous. If the increase in rent is not accepted the tenant moves on (most properties are managed by agents, it's up to them to ensure that the landlord is being looked after, after all they earn good money for managing the property. Why keep a tenant that can't afford it or in the end only destroys the property because they can become vindictive. What happens when property is destroyed in Dubai.....who loses out?


----------



## Akasha

Well you can't punish tenants for your bad investment choices can you? Not rent for one to two months? Yeah right - I've seen properties empty for months on end, because the LL's are too greedy.

As I said, people ON BOTH SIDES, have to be realistic. Companies don't pay lump sum housing allowance like they used to. People aren't earning the money that they used to. Supply far outstrips demand right now. 'Good' tenants as you call them, are happy to pay 'reasonable' increases in line with the market value.

Judging by the posts flying around other forums, it's all the LL's who are becoming vindictive - certainly not the other way around.

You don't see the big picture at all - only the short term.


----------



## unknownpleasures

Who is punishing anyone, (personally I haven't made any bad choices - I'm speaking from a general perspective overall) it's a choice they all can make, either stay or go. Most landlords are reasonable. When you become one then you will understand until such time no point as you have no experience. I'm not the one speaking like this but you tend to target my comments. One landlord explained their reasons as to why there are disadvantages. As I said tenants require to live within their means. Companies shouldn't be paying anything, you want to live and work elsewhere be prepared to pay your own way, everyone else does or don't go and stay where you are. In the end they want to have their cake and eat it...the company pays and pays their wages yet when the little landlord wants to raise the rent a little more all hell breaks loose. You can't have it both ways, if a company does pay for everything and still pays the rent etc (maybe not all, most do) then cough up the difference if it goes up instead of expecting the company to pay the rent in full. The tenant isn't greedy by wanting their company to pay everything and they pay nothing?.. Sounds fair...not! Instead the blame goes towards the landlord instead who just wants a little more rent each year (reasonable in most cases and justifiable as per example below). Bad landlords don't count but the good ones are treated like dirt by tenant greed. Goes both ways!! Yeah the tenant can't always have their cake and eat it!

As indicated, utilities always go up, phones, electricity do tenants argue their point with them because their pay isn't enough or do they just pay it (or does the company they work for pay it and no argument there?). Employees already get fringe benefits from the company they work for and it's still not enough they want more so when the rent goes up the landlord is greedy!!! The same goes with rent, you can't afford it then move on or pay the extra rent hike, yearly isn't too much to ask. Most tenants think all landlords are bad (only when they hike the rent up which is reasonable in most cases). Most tenants want everything for nothing and cause unnecessary issues for hard working landlords.

Perhaps you can respond to this instead >>> 



AITU said:


> Well I'm a "middle class" landlord with a reason too.... I have a 2 bedroom apartment in Business Bay bought as an investment property. The mortgage is AED 9,000 per month and there is an annual service charge bill of AED 24,000 (an increase of 25% year on year so far, note: also approved by RERA). Total outlay of AED 132,000 per annum.
> 
> Rents for the last 3 years have been increased in line with RERA regulations of 5% per annum only, started at AED 80,000 though so now only AED 88,000.
> 
> The identical apartment next door was vacated recently and has now rented for AED 135,000.
> 
> So due to the rent cap I'm effectively being penalised with a loss of AED 47,000 per annum because I'm not permitted to ask the market rate of rent by my existing tenant (or a new tenant). So......why bother apart from an improvement in capital value, albeit the same as 2007 levels?
> 
> A similar analogy would be that I would of course like to live in Mayfair (read Downtown/BB), however if my budget now only goes as far as accommodation in Wimbledon (read DSC/Mirdiff etc.), then that is where I have to live......


----------



## Akasha

Seeing as I;m not allowed to post this in the CRW thread, for some bizarre reason, even though it relates to CRW - is anyone else mortgaged with EIB and struggling to get them to do anything for handover?

Been told another month now. I and DSC are now both pulling our hair out. SHort of threatening them with legal action, I don't know what to do.

Anyone else in the same boat?


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Chaps,

I had a question regarding freehold title in Dubai. I have seen title deeds issued for leasehold properties (such as in DSO) where the deed explicitly states that the property is being leased for a period of 99 years - it is fairly clear and well stated.

However looking at title deeds issued for freehold properties, for example in JLT, the title deed makes no explicit mention of the fact that the person in whose name the deed has been issued owns the freehold. I just want to understand what this means exactly? I would have thought that the title deeds for freehold property would have stated this fact clearly but they don't appear to? When I asked my agent / developer I got the casual response of 'don't worry, it is definitely freehold'.

So what does buying a freehold property actually mean in Dubai? What does it entitle you to? I have heard all sorts of things around the freehold also only being for a period of 99 years, is this really true?

Would greatly appreciate if someone can shed some light on this.


----------



## unknownpleasures

This will definitely improve the whole property market. All the projects left on hold might get a boost of life and finally get out of the ground.




> Dubai Expo 2020 Win Will Spur Property Market – CBRE
> A negative Expo result for Dubai may cause a short-term dip in sentiment levels, added the CBRE report.By Aarti Nagraj 4 hours ago
> 
> A successful Expo 2020 bid will boost the UAE’s economy and spur growth in Dubai’s real estate sector, according to a new report by property consultancy CBRE.
> 
> “A positive result would mean new people, new visitors and new interest in Dubai, with international coverage and global exposure in what at the very least would be a wonderful PR event for the UAE, and at the very best a springboard to establish Dubai as an internationally recognised global city,” stated the report.


http://gulfbusiness.com/2013/11/dubai-expo-2020-win-will-spur-property-market-cbre/#.UpSLeielr5k


----------



## IISinbadII

agod said:


> No not true, to set it up its 100000 AED for the start up share Capital, though you get this back, then around 27000 for the Virtual Office and costs 3000 for the Visa, and a Yearly License renewal of 17500 plus 1500 for Accounts, you do get a 3 Year Visa, which can be renewed every 3 years for 4000, well at this time anyway..............One of the Chaps had the RAK License, and cancelled it and did this instead.


^^ That's a lot of money. :bash:

Link to RAK-Free Zone official brochure (See page 12 for Visa related info):

http://www.rakftz.com/en/media/get/20130919_RAK-FTZ-Brochure-7.0.5-English-225x310.pdf

-


----------



## cguria

Abu Ahmad said:


> However looking at title deeds issued for freehold properties, for example in JLT, the title deed makes no explicit mention of the fact that the person in whose name the deed has been issued owns the freehold.


It clearly mentions Owner on the title deed. I have not seen a leasehold title deed myself but if there are, it won't mention that the person is the Owner.


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Thanks cguria. You're right it does mention your name as the owner, I just would have thought that the word 'freehold' would have been stated on the title deed somewhere (I'm pretty sure it isn't). 

To my second point can anyone shed some light on what 'freehold' actually means in the UAE? Does an apartment owner for example own a small portion of the land that the tower is built on? And is it for life or does the freehold only last for a period of time?

Apologies if this has been discussed previously or if this is common knowledge but I've been struggling to get answers on these questions...


----------



## True Blue

^^The title deed shows which portion, as a percentage, of the freehold plot you own. This is based on the area of an apartment divided by the gross/total residential area of the building.

As an apartment owner in a freehold area, you become a part owner of the plot in perpetuity. So if the building needs to be demolished and rebuilt in later years you can sell your share of the plot to a future developer or pay your share of the reconstruction costs. This is the theory, but it is unlikely to happen in your lifetime. Instead it means that the property is heritable and can be passed down to your descendants.

All of the above assumes that there is no major war, political upheaval or invasion of planet earth by creatures from another unfriendly planet.


----------



## cguria

The term freehold is misinterpreted in Dubai. Technically, everything in Dubai is freehold, it's just that some areas are limited to which nationalities can own in them.

All GCC (KSA, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, UAE) nationalities can own anywhere in Dubai while any nationality can own property in new areas such as JBR, Marina, Palm, basically everything past Interchange 4.5 (Hessa St).

In the past few years there has been land sold as 'freehold for everyone' in Umm Al Sheif, Pearl Jumeirah, Mirdiff and eventually all of Dubai will be freehold for all. This is because new areas will see very high prices in the coming years and owners of 'GCC freehold' will question why their properties can't be sold to anyone at a free market price.


----------



## Impy

*Reactions To Dubai’s Expo 2020 Win Dubai beat rivals Izmir, Ekaterinburg and Sao Paolo to win the bid to host the mega event.*

http://gulfbusiness.com/2013/11/first-reactions-to-dubais-expo-2020-win/#.UpYsMic3MmQ


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Thanks TB and cguria for the insights - that certainly helps clarify things.

On a separate note, congratulations to all for Dubai winning the right to host Expo 2020! May Allah SWT bless this land and guide its rulers to do the best for their people and all residents


----------



## chefdude

Jim

You are mistaken its the city of Dubai that won the bid not the country


----------



## Jim Hensler

Thanks Chefdude I stand/sit corrected.


----------



## noir-dresses

Has any body else heard Dubai will have a world record fire works display on New Years.

The last time Dubai did that on the Palm the financial crisis hit the city, let's hope we have better luck this time around.


----------



## Akasha

noir-dresses said:


> Has any body else heard Dubai will have a world record fire works display on New Years.
> 
> The last time Dubai did that on the Palm the financial crisis hit the city, let's hope we have better luck this time around.


Honestly, the novelty of fireworks is wearing off. They're used for everything. To break the world record, they have to last for over an hour - just think of all that cash going up in smoke - literally.


----------



## frantic2013

*Trying to sell apartment that is mortgaged*

Ive followed a lot of the threads over the years, and it has given me great joy, but never thought i had anything worth contributing. 

I have a problem and was hoping someone could come up with a solution.
I am selling my flat in the Marina that has a mortgage on it. I am a UK resident with a Dubai bank account, but i don't have a Dubai check book.

We found a buyer and they backed out because there is a period of time, after they pay my mortgage off and before they get the title deed, and there concern was if I disappeared they would of paid a mortgage off for a property that didn't belong to them, as title would still be mine until transfer.

Now then we have found another buyer, and what the agent is saying is that we have to give a security check, which will be given back to us after the sale, for the value of the loan….But we do not possess a UAE check book, I'm offered to have a lawyer involved to oversee things and they have refused, and it looks as if we are going to lose yet another buyer. Is there anyone that can help me?

Thanks

Frantic


----------



## auzdafluff

frantic2013 said:


> Ive followed a lot of the threads over the years, and it has given me great joy, but never thought i had anything worth contributing.
> 
> I have a problem and was hoping someone could come up with a solution.
> I am selling my flat in the Marina that has a mortgage on it. I am a UK resident with a Dubai bank account, but i don't have a Dubai check book.
> 
> We found a buyer and they backed out because there is a period of time, after they pay my mortgage off and before they get the title deed, and there concern was if I disappeared they would of paid a mortgage off for a property that didn't belong to them, as title would still be mine until transfer.
> 
> Now then we have found another buyer, and what the agent is saying is that we have to give a security check, which will be given back to us after the sale, for the value of the loan….But we do not possess a UAE check book, I'm offered to have a lawyer involved to oversee things and they have refused, and it looks as if we are going to lose yet another buyer. Is there anyone that can help me?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Frantic


Which bank are you with? They frequently print off one off cheques for the purposes of backing up loans, so I would have thought they'd be able to issue one in this situation.

However, be very, very careful when it comes to issuing a cheque. Should the deal fall through and the cheque is cashed, you'll be facing a police case and several years in prison.

Don't underestimate how big a c*** the banks (not all, just some) can be over here when they sniff a way to clear the mortgage quickly (i.e. bouncing a cheque, issuing a police case and claiming the insurance).


----------



## beer51

To be on the safe side spend AED5000/ and get a lawyer. A lot of the time agents haven't got a clue they are only after the 2%commission.


----------



## idontdream

Thats it blame the fireworks..... spoil sports !


----------



## UKNewguy

Can anyone suggest a good lawyer???


----------



## cguria

DUBAI // Atlantis The Palm is hoping to set a world record as the clock strikes midnight on New Year’s Eve.

Related

■ Dubai World unit sells Atlantis, The Palm to Dubai investment fund
Comment Dubai’s New Year extravaganza lit up by fireworks and a famous face
■ Sandance rings in the new, but saves its sparks for midnight
■ UAE rings in 2013 with dazzling fireworks
Photos In pictures: UAE ushers in 2013 with fireworks
Topic Dubai Atlantis

The hotel is “guaranteeing an unforgettable New Year’s Eve” by promising the most spectacular fireworks display the world has seen.

Diners at the hotel’s royal gala dinner will eat under the stars and enjoy entertainment before getting front-row seats to watch the huge display, the cost of which will surpass the estimated Dh11 million Atlantis spent on fireworks for its launch in 2008.

According to the Guinness World Records, the largest firework display in terms of area took place in Kuwait City during celebrations for the 50th anniversary of the constitution on November 10 last year. It consisted of 77,282 pyrotechnics, stretched along 5 kilometres of seafront and lasted for 64 minutes.

Another fireworks record is held by Cebu, in the Philippines, for the most rockets launched in 30 seconds. On May 8, 2010, 125,801 rockets set off from 16 stacks of 8,000 rockets in just 17 seconds.

It is unclear what record Atlantis, The Palm will attempt to break.

The hotel will also host the popular Sandance music festival on New Year’s Eve, featuring international DJs Axwell, Pete Tong and Paul Oakenfold, as well as singer Emeli Sande.

Tickets for Sandance cost Dh450 for regular admission tickets bought in advance, or Dh530 on the night. VIP tickets are Dh600

http://www.thenational.ae/uae/touri...rld-record-fireworks-display-on-new-years-eve


----------



## UAE Investor

World record!

http://www.emirates247.com/property...astest-in-the-world-again-2013-12-08-1.530506


----------



## man city fc

UAE Investor said:


> World record! http://www.emirates247.com/property/dubai-house-prices-rising-fastest-in-the-world-again-2013-12-08-1.530506


Great news for those with property!


----------



## man city fc

unknownpleasures said:


> Watch all those with property start selling it off. Already plenty for sale in CRW DSC and others in the same vicinity. Eden Gardens not completed and is already on the market.


By 'All' I guess you mean every single one of them!!!! Property as an investment vehicle isn't for you if that is your train of thought!! Plenty of houses for sale where I live in the UK, doesn't mean 'everyone' is selling. No interest in properties other than my own thanks though ;-)


----------



## man city fc

unknownpleasures said:


> What are you on? Pass it around, it's a general statement and was not directed towards you. What a hothead!


Your 'general statements' always without fail appear to have a ''negative pessimistic' slant. Call me whatever you want, but I prefer optimist


----------



## UAE Investor

Akasha said:


> Honestly, the novelty of fireworks is wearing off. They're used for everything. To break the world record, they have to last for over an hour - just think of all that cash going up in smoke - literally.


I think Dubai Fireworks are fantastic ...not that i have ever seen them in the flesh so to speak!


----------



## dave83

For what it's worth, I think Dubai property will stay okay for a year or two - if one has lost money in the last boom, one should seriously heed lessons and apply those this time, but boycotting a market because it has burnt you in the past is probably not a great strategy.


----------



## True Blue

I have been on holiday recently and spent a lot of time reading up on economic data with a bit of drunken Karaoke on the side.

All the indicators are that there are some major defaults coming soon. These are likely to be in USA, UK, and the Euro zone. All the data shows that the debt burden of these countries is so high that it can not be supported. Banks are likely to fail and the markets will tank again. The only way to protect your money and investment is to get out of these zones and certainly do not touch bank stocks with a barge pole.

You need to consider markets that are not bogged down with debt burden spiralling out of control, and/or commodities which will withstand the turmoil when it comes, and it will. Some people are tipping Japan as it has been stagnant for too long and now seems to be pulling out of deep recession. Others are tipping gold, as cash deposits could get trapped in a run on the banks or be mired in hyper inflation. 

What do I suggest? Ready now Dubai properties in established areas. IMO one of the safest places to have your cash right now with Global Armageddon II waiting round the corner. 

What's the worst that can happen? Prices drop marginally which is offset by good rental yields. 

It has taken over 20 years for the stock market in Japan to recover from debt driven recession. If you think the same can't happen in USA, UK or the Euro zone then you are dreaming.

Are there any indicators that something isn't right at the moment. Yes, RBS and all the associated banks have frozen accounts on a number of occasions now depriving account holders of access to their cash. On one occasion this lock out lasted for a week. The official reason given is that the software is out of date. But consider this, the Banks might simply be insolvent! The UK government can't bail them out again as they are insolvent too. The directors of RBS and many other banks are now well aware that the Billions loaned to Ireland, Greece and Spain are NEVER going to be repaid. Who will pay for that?


----------



## Cayman

^^
TB, very scary, yet good analysis.

Are there any other tell tale signs of an impending default, not matter how anecdotal?


----------



## noir-dresses

I've been keeping a close eye on Toronto real estate prices and they keep going up, and some experts are saying we're in a bubble that could pop soon.

There's a magic number of 5 to 1 in the real estate market meaning if average housing price's exceed more than the average five years worth of income in the country then there's a good chance of a bubble.

Now most of the world's real estate is bought on low interest rates, and sooner or later those interest rates will go up which could also trigger massive defaults.


----------



## UKNewguy

Can anyone suggest a good lawyer in Dubai???


----------



## Business Bay

True Blue , from your analysis do you feel that the US Dollar 
Can continue to be a safe haven and can hold
It's value if the global crisis hits?


----------



## driverpete

Hi

can anyone recommend an insurance company that I can insure my apartment contents with?

I have googled it, but all the companies I have contacted have told me they only insure UAE residents.

I live in the UK and intend to rent my apartment out in JLT

thanks in advance


----------



## True Blue

Business Bay said:


> True Blue , from your analysis do you feel that the US Dollar
> Can continue to be a safe haven and can hold
> It's value if the global crisis hits?


The US Dollar is not holding it's value and can not hold it's value due to the amount of money that they print on a daily basis to keep the banking system functioning. The more money they print, the more devaluation they create. It's as simple as that and the US government aren't about to stop Quantitative Easing any time soon. You have to recognise that the entire country ground to a halt only a few months ago because the Government could not agree on a budget, or was the real reason that there was no money left to pay all of the public sector employees. USA insolvent! 

We have to read between the lines on the backdrop of the fact that the debt is rising quicker than it can be repaid. So the Western economies are paying interest on interest. The inevitable is being delayed by low interest rates and higher inflation which also erodes the currency value. 

Gold and other precious metals seem the only safe haven at the moment. Someone suggested Uranium as a long term investment. There is an appetite for Nuclear energy again with new Nuclear power stations being built in the UAE and Saudi Arabia. Due to demilitarisation of weapons grade Uranium, there has been a long term surplus available for use in power generation. But that supply will dry up soon and they will need to start mining it again some time in the future.

I do wonder if UAE will reconsider un-pegging from the US Dollar given it's clear devaluation campaign along with the GBP and Euro.


----------



## Green Hornet

Property prices rise in Dubai 28.5% during the last year alone and thats before even the effects of Expo have kicked in ! Wow,get ready for the ride!

All those out there who've been slating Dubai property for the last few years have egg on their faces now.

Hopefully Expo will also make the chance of the bubble bursting far less likely.


----------



## newinvestor1

It is very interesting to see that my posts about the missing car parking spaces are being deleted from this thread! 

When Hilliana was advertised, 2 car parking spaces were offered with 2 bed apartments. Now none are being offered unless a commotion is made, then only 1 is offered! 

The 2 beds were being advertised with 2 car parking spaces and that is why we bought ours through Real Choice. 

Is anyone else having this problem? Please reply before my post is deleted again!😠


----------



## Kshaikh

What is your total covered area?


----------



## newinvestor1

The apartment is 2 x bed x 1,728 SQFT. It was advertised, offered and priced with 2 (two) car park spaces. I have complete documentary evidence of the apartment confirmed offered and sold with two car park places. But at the time of SPA car park spaces were eliminated by Abyaar and after few weeks they offered 1 car park and it is not fair and honest to delete one car park after one year of signing the deal and accepting the payment installments.


----------



## Kshaikh

My apartment also same covered area and two car parking but I have not received SPA.


----------



## newinvestor1

Kshaikh said:


> My apartment also same covered area and two car parking but I have not received SPA.


SPA is the legal binding agreement that legally protects the buyer without it every one is on a very slippery slope. Buyers should be asking for it is as per the initial offer letter it should have been issued upon 2nd installment unless any one has not paid will not get their SPA but if all installments are paid in time then SPA for sure is well over due now. 

Also not sure if every one knows but the new revised "anticipated completion date" for Hilliana Tower is 30th June, 2015.


----------



## chefdude

driverpete said:


> Hi
> 
> can anyone recommend an insurance company that I can insure my apartment contents with?
> 
> I have googled it, but all the companies I have contacted have told me they only insure UAE residents.
> 
> I live in the UK and intend to rent my apartment out in JLT
> 
> thanks in advance


Hello Pete,

You can try these two, the prices are a few years old so its likely premiums will have risen a bit

Royal Sun Alliance - www.royalsunalliance.ae

Insured value AED 1m
Contents AED 20K
Premium AED 550
Min excess 250 contents or 1,000 building

Other one is Abu Dhabi National Insurance Company www.adnic.ae
Insured value AED 568K

Dont know what his premium was
Excess 2,500 each claim


----------



## driverpete

Hi chefdude,

thanks very much for your help.I will contact them and see what they come up with.

regards Pete


----------



## Viv

driverpete said:


> Hi
> 
> can anyone recommend an insurance company that I can insure my apartment contents with?
> 
> I have googled it, but all the companies I have contacted have told me they only insure UAE residents.
> 
> I live in the UK and intend to rent my apartment out in JLT
> 
> thanks in advance


Hi Pete,

I'm in the UK too - I have insurance thru 'Intasure' - based in Croydon - number is 0208 274 6777.

They insure specifically for holiday homes abroad - give them a call / check internet and see for yourself.

Viv


----------



## Abu Ahmad

I am also still waiting for my SPA - will definitely check whether parking is clearly stated. It is also slightly concerning that the completion date is now June 2015 - is that as per the SPA?

Does anyone have any information as to what the delay in the completion date is due to? At the end of 2012 we were told August 2014, then recently I heard March 2015 and now June 2015.


----------



## driverpete

Hi Viv, 

thanks a lot.I'll check them out too.

regards Pete


----------



## 974agk

Hi Driverpete

Im also with Intasure, price for 2bed with maids room & full contents cost of £210.00 per year.


----------



## driverpete

thanks 974agk


----------



## idontdream

True Blue said:


> I have been on holiday recently and spent a lot of time reading up on economic data with a bit of drunken Karaoke on the side.
> 
> All the indicators are that there are some major defaults coming soon. These are likely to be in USA, UK, and the Euro zone. All the data shows that the debt burden of these countries is so high that it can not be supported. Banks are likely to fail and the markets will tank again. The only way to protect your money and investment is to get out of these zones and certainly do not touch bank stocks with a barge pole.
> 
> You need to consider markets that are not bogged down with debt burden spiralling out of control, and/or commodities which will withstand the turmoil when it comes, and it will. Some people are tipping Japan as it has been stagnant for too long and now seems to be pulling out of deep recession. Others are tipping gold, as cash deposits could get trapped in a run on the banks or be mired in hyper inflation.
> 
> What do I suggest? Ready now Dubai properties in established areas. IMO one of the safest places to have your cash right now with Global Armageddon II waiting round the corner.
> 
> What's the worst that can happen? Prices drop marginally which is offset by good rental yields.
> 
> It has taken over 20 years for the stock market in Japan to recover from debt driven recession. If you think the same can't happen in USA, UK or the Euro zone then you are dreaming.
> 
> Are there any indicators that something isn't right at the moment. Yes, RBS and all the associated banks have frozen accounts on a number of occasions now depriving account holders of access to their cash. On one occasion this lock out lasted for a week. The official reason given is that the software is out of date. But consider this, the Banks might simply be insolvent! The UK government can't bail them out again as they are insolvent too. The directors of RBS and many other banks are now well aware that the Billions loaned to Ireland, Greece and Spain are NEVER going to be repaid. Who will pay for that?


This all yesterday's news that any astute person should be aware of and have plans in place for.

I suppose it helps getting away from Dubai for a while to realise the real world.


----------



## chefdude

Just a quick update as RSA have changed their website address

http://insurance.rsadirect.ae/home-insurance

:cheers:


----------



## auzdafluff

True Blue said:


> The US Dollar is not holding it's value and can not hold it's value due to the amount of money that they print on a daily basis to keep the banking system functioning. The more money they print, the more devaluation they create. It's as simple as that and the US government aren't about to stop Quantitative Easing any time soon. You have to recognise that the entire country ground to a halt only a few months ago because the Government could not agree on a budget, or was the real reason that there was no money left to pay all of the public sector employees. USA insolvent!
> 
> We have to read between the lines on the backdrop of the fact that the debt is rising quicker than it can be repaid. So the Western economies are paying interest on interest. The inevitable is being delayed by low interest rates and higher inflation which also erodes the currency value.
> 
> Gold and other precious metals seem the only safe haven at the moment. Someone suggested Uranium as a long term investment. There is an appetite for Nuclear energy again with new Nuclear power stations being built in the UAE and Saudi Arabia. Due to demilitarisation of weapons grade Uranium, there has been a long term surplus available for use in power generation. But that supply will dry up soon and they will need to start mining it again some time in the future.
> 
> I do wonder if UAE will reconsider un-pegging from the US Dollar given it's clear devaluation campaign along with the GBP and Euro.


The US isn't insolvent. It's biggest problem is that it has one party in a crucial part of government that is absolutely opposed to tax rises – rises that would return rates to the levels they were at when America's economy was at its strongest.


----------



## londonboy 1

*letting agents*

can anyone recommend good reputable letting managment agents in Dubai? thanks in advance guys.


----------



## noir-dresses

Question if your tenant does not pay rent on time and you give them a vacate notice how long do they have to leave apartment?


----------



## Face81

londonboy 1 said:


> can anyone recommend good reputable letting managment agents in Dubai? thanks in advance guys.


Try any of the usual suspects: Cluttons, Better Homes, Asteco.....


----------



## shakka

londonboy 1 said:


> can anyone recommend good reputable letting managment agents in Dubai? thanks in advance guys.


I use Everest Homes speak to Salman +971 55 128 0285 +971 4374 1468 or email [email protected]. Significantly cheaper than Better Homes etc & I deal with him from UK no problem. He looks after all of mine in Dubai.


----------



## balbowhite

Green Hornet said:


> Property prices rise in Dubai 28.5% during the last year alone and thats before even the effects of Expo have kicked in ! Wow,get ready for the ride!
> 
> All those out there who've been slating Dubai property for the last few years have egg on their faces now.
> 
> Hopefully Expo will also make the chance of the bubble bursting far less likely.


I'll talk in general forget about the prizes in Dubai,, its a matter of fact that now a days people are concerned more in the investment of properties rather than any other investments if you have taken a property irrespective of whether its a land or a house its for sure that after a year or two you'll definitely be getting a good hike.


----------



## bister

*Short Time Memory*



True Blue said:


> I have been on holiday recently and spent a lot of time reading up on economic data with a bit of drunken Karaoke on the side.
> 
> All the indicators are that there are some major defaults coming soon. These are likely to be in USA, UK, and the Euro zone. All the data shows that the debt burden of these countries is so high that it can not be supported. Banks are likely to fail and the markets will tank again. The only way to protect your money and investment is to get out of these zones and certainly do not touch bank stocks with a barge pole.
> 
> You need to consider markets that are not bogged down with debt burden spiralling out of control, and/or commodities which will withstand the turmoil when it comes, and it will. Some people are tipping Japan as it has been stagnant for too long and now seems to be pulling out of deep recession. Others are tipping gold, as cash deposits could get trapped in a run on the banks or be mired in hyper inflation.
> 
> What do I suggest? Ready now Dubai properties in established areas. IMO one of the safest places to have your cash right now with Global Armageddon II waiting round the corner.
> 
> What's the worst that can happen? Prices drop marginally which is offset by good rental yields.
> 
> It has taken over 20 years for the stock market in Japan to recover from debt driven recession. If you think the same can't happen in USA, UK or the Euro zone then you are dreaming.
> 
> Are there any indicators that something isn't right at the moment. Yes, RBS and all the associated banks have frozen accounts on a number of occasions now depriving account holders of access to their cash. On one occasion this lock out lasted for a week. The official reason given is that the software is out of date. But consider this, the Banks might simply be insolvent! The UK government can't bail them out again as they are insolvent too. The directors of RBS and many other banks are now well aware that the Billions loaned to Ireland, Greece and Spain are NEVER going to be repaid. Who will pay for that?


That Karaoke must have been really drunken. You predict that the world economy led by Europe and US will tank again. What happened with Dubai last time that happened? It was MAYHEM and the bubble burst just as hard as elsewhere, some would say harder. What makes you think that Dubai will all of a sudden be insulated from a new crash? We have a new property bubble building with 20-30% hikes over the last year and that will say "POP" the minute something in the west goes haywire.

The wider economic outlook for Dubai is generally good, however looming beneath the surface is decreased dependency of Mid East oil/gas and increased domestic tension will eventually take its toll also on Dubai. For now, Dubai will keep pumping in its own little world, however at the end of the day its a dwarf in a game of giants. One of the giants is currently fracking its way out of trouble and that will spell trouble for UAE and others.... 

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/04/26/why_the_sheikhs_will_fall#sthash.YWf7uXtC.dpbs


----------



## jimbo5

Hi does anyone know if the Arena Mall will be anything apart from a huge hole in the floor? It was supposed to be finished at the end of 2013 but it seems everyone has gone quiet about the Retail side of things in DSC. I think this will be a big boost to DSC if the Mall actually materialises..


----------



## noir-dresses

bister said:


> That Karaoke must have been really drunken. You predict that the world economy led by Europe and US will tank again. What happened with Dubai last time that happened? It was MAYHEM and the bubble burst just as hard as elsewhere, some would say harder. What makes you think that Dubai will all of a sudden be insulated from a new crash? We have a new property bubble building with 20-30% hikes over the last year and that will say "POP" the minute something in the west goes haywire.
> 
> The wider economic outlook for Dubai is generally good, however looming beneath the surface is decreased dependency of Mid East oil/gas and increased domestic tension will eventually take its toll also on Dubai. For now, Dubai will keep pumping in its own little world, however at the end of the day its a dwarf in a game of giants. One of the giants is currently fracking its way out of trouble and that will spell trouble for UAE and others....
> 
> http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/04/26/why_the_sheikhs_will_fall#sthash.YWf7uXtC.dpbs


As good as fracking might sound it's a disaster to the environment and the people who live close to it.


----------



## UAE Investor

jimbo5 said:


> Hi does anyone know if the Arena Mall will be anything apart from a huge hole in the floor? It was supposed to be finished at the end of 2013 but it seems everyone has gone quiet about the Retail side of things in DSC. I think this will be a big boost to DSC if the Mall actually materialises..


i was told they where to start, on the mall after Christmas so we will wait and see..?

Good for DSC if they build ..

Problem is, its a huge site,

Area is getting so built up now, and population is growing and of course its now classed as the New Dubai away from all the traffic in the Jumeirah regions which are seen as places for singles and business bodies not ideal for family,s etc. who want a more safe/quiet/peaceful environment.


----------



## Business Bay

As Dubai properties become more expensive, is it worthwhile looking at Ajman properties ? Any thoughts on this?

In Ajman City , projects like Ajman One seems to be coming up well


----------



## AppleMac

noir-dresses said:


> As good as fracking might sound it's a disaster to the environment and the people who live close to it.


Its no worse than any other form of resource extraction and cleaner than some.


----------



## noir-dresses

AppleMac said:


> Its no worse than any other form of resource extraction and cleaner than some.


True just look at what Canada's Alberta looks like where oil is extracted from the sand.

I guess l'm just an all things nature buff.


----------



## chefdude

bister said:


> That Karaoke must have been really drunken. You predict that the world economy led by Europe and US will tank again. What happened with Dubai last time that happened? It was MAYHEM and the bubble burst just as hard as elsewhere, some would say harder. What makes you think that Dubai will all of a sudden be insulated from a new crash? We have a new property bubble building with 20-30% hikes over the last year and that will say "POP" the minute something in the west goes haywire.
> 
> The wider economic outlook for Dubai is generally good, however looming beneath the surface is decreased dependency of Mid East oil/gas and increased domestic tension will eventually take its toll also on Dubai. For now, Dubai will keep pumping in its own little world, however at the end of the day its a dwarf in a game of giants. One of the giants is currently fracking its way out of trouble and that will spell trouble for UAE and others....
> 
> http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/04/26/why_the_sheikhs_will_fall#sthash.YWf7uXtC.dpbs


In a quick answer to your points 2 things.

1. Fracking is not the way to extract cheap gas for public use it is not economical as advertised and it is causing untold damage to the ecology of the areas and the water tables. It appears to be a way to make the countryside unlivable and to force rural dwellers into the large city zones, Its a stalking horse designed as an energy program.

2. The 2009 crash in the UAE was caused by the speculators holding leveraged debts on multiple apartments they could have never afforded to pay for in the first place. When the game of musical chairs stopped and they were left holding inventory they could no longer flip for a profit then the panic rush started to offload at any price hence the spiralling decline.

Those types of investors do not make up more than a fraction of the property market today and the new off plan developments cannot be sold on until late in the construction cycle so the circumstances that led to the first crash simply do not exist anymore.


----------



## bister

chefdude said:


> In a quick answer to your points 2 things.
> 
> 1. Fracking is not the way to extract cheap gas for public use it is not economical as advertised and it is causing untold damage to the ecology of the areas and the water tables. It appears to be a way to make the countryside unlivable and to force rural dwellers into the large city zones, Its a stalking horse designed as an energy program.
> 
> 2. The 2009 crash in the UAE was caused by the speculators holding leveraged debts on multiple apartments they could have never afforded to pay for in the first place. When the game of musical chairs stopped and they were left holding inventory they could no longer flip for a profit then the panic rush started to offload at any price hence the spiralling decline.
> 
> Those types of investors do not make up more than a fraction of the property market today and the new off plan developments cannot be sold on until late in the construction cycle so the circumstances that led to the first crash simply do not exist anymore.


Come on Dude. 

You refer to fracking being environmentally unsustainable and uneconomical. Surely, the damages to be caused by fracking remain a ? and will in any case still dwarf the damages caused by widespread oil and gas exploration over the past century and a half and the wasteful, entirely unsustainable consumption seen in e.g. the Middle East. As for shale gas being uneconomical please then explain the billions and billions being invested in this field. Surely the players involved can populate their excel sheets correctly?

Secondly you seem to believe that the crash in Dubai had nothing to do with the global crash but was merely down to some flippers getting their rightly deserved slap for not being responsible. May I remind you that the global crash had a profound impact of the total UAE economy and then there is the small issue of the oil price that plunged. You really believe that your apartment on the Palm will be immune to a sub $50 per barrel oil price? 

UAE is a small, yet very global trading hub that will flushed out with the rest of us if the global economy tanks again.

It is delusional, karaoke infused beliefs such as yours that fuelled the crash in the first place!


----------



## ironjakob

Chefdude - Are you suggesting that ignorant and perhaps unsuspecting, as many were not playing the system or had any intention to.. investors who overleveraged themselves, thinking they were playing the system, are actually the ones to blame for A. the rapid decline in the Dubai real estate market and B. the increasing spiral of lies and cheats from developers a few years ago?


----------



## ironjakob

Do you think the fact that developers were also allowed to leverage investors money held in safe accs and are still doing, is not concerning


----------



## Cayman

http://www.emirates247.com/1st-freehold-commercial-tower-launched-in-deira-2013-12-16-1.531577

Does this mean that property for expatriates will be offered on freehold basis in areas outside the designated zones?


----------



## chefdude

No you are misunderstanding my point.

I didn't say that the reason the property market tanked here is because of flippers of course the lack of global liquidity and massive debts and defaults here were instrumental in the demise. But what I mean is using supply and demand scenarios there was no demand for the over supply of off plan units and people were caught with there pants down and had to off load. That situation does not exist in Dubai now so should another financial meltdown occur the only people likely to sell it down are those that need to release funds to cover things elsewhere.

Did property in the other major world cities more than half during the last crisis? No I don't think so, then it doesn't follow that property will tank here again

Dubai has very little reliance on Oil and Gas compared to the other Emirates such as AD and RAk or the rest of the Gulf Region. They have concentrated more on other sectors such as tourism, and being a global hub with Emirates and a financial hub so whilst Saudi would be crippled by $50 a barrel ooil I don't think Dubai would

Just my 2c worth


----------



## chefdude

iron

There is no defence for the dishonest developers here with the morals that would shock and shame the Mafia. I have no idea why RERA will not grow a set of balls / teeth and take them to task


----------



## ironjakob

Uaeinvestor, are you talking to me when you say gibberish?? If so, please explain which part of what I said is gibberish?? Are you a developer?? 
Chefdude, thanks for your reply. You are right I misunderstood your point. I thought you were only blaming buyers for the Dubai crash. But yes, completely agree the developers and rera are also to blame


----------



## chefdude

To discover the darker sides of Fracking you need to look beyond the froth and hype from the MSM.

There are far more efficient and less destructive ways to produce the energy we need to develop industrially and an expanding earth population but they do not offer the same economic return to the big energy players.

Geo Thermal energy is limitless, pollution free and safe. 

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/the-take/trouble-in-fracking-paradise/

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/11/taxpayers-fracking-pollution-companies

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/12/powerful-protests-against-chevron-and.html

http://rt.com/usa/dallas-passes-fracking-restrictions-178/


----------



## dubayyy

Akasha said:


> Another kick in the teeth! Just heard that registration fees will go up AGAIN on 1st January to 6%! That's a 4% hike in 4 months. I don't know anywhere else, where you pay such fees for property.


Where did you hear this? Has there been an official announcement? 

I know there has been a strong rumour in the market that this would happen but there was a rebuttal in the press a couple of days ago from the land department denying any such forthcoming move.


----------



## Akasha

dubayyy said:


> Where did you hear this? Has there been an official announcement?
> 
> I know there has been a strong rumour in the market that this would happen but there was a rebuttal in the press a couple of days ago from the land department denying any such forthcoming move.


My bank that I have my mortgage told me. As I have to hurry up and sort things before the end of the year to avoid yet another hike.


----------



## Akasha

Rider said:


> I am faced with this very situation and am locked into a contract with the tenant paying about 15-20% below market rates. The tenant is refusing to pay any more and I can't impose any increase at all because the rules state that he has to be paying at least 25% below market rates. I am therefore forced to give him 12 months notice and declare my intention to sell the property.
> 
> Does anyone know if this 12 months notice requires any specific wording i.e. should I hire a lawyer and get a witness etc. or can I simply send a simple notice in writing declaring my intention to sell? I believe that it has to be done through a Notary Public or Registered Mail. Can I send it by courier from the UK or does it have to be done through Registered Mail in Dubai?
> 
> Many Thanks


You just have to make sure you are actually going to sell the property. If it turns out you don't and your current tenant finds out, you've simply done it to get a new tenant in at a higher rent, they can file a case against you, which could end up in you compensating them financially up to a years rent and being prevented from leasing again for 2 years. Even serving notice of selling is no guarantee either, as any buyer would have to do so under the understanding that there is a sitting tenant and they must honour the current contract until expiry. Make sure you have all the info before proceeding.


----------



## Cayman

Finally, some reprieve for the landlords:

http://www.emirates247.com/news/gov...on-dubai-rental-increases-2013-12-21-1.532067


----------



## Richard Head

Akasha said:


> My bank that I have my mortgage told me. As I have to hurry up and sort things before the end of the year to avoid yet another hike.


Mortgage salesman at the bank is probably a little short of his sales target for his year end bonus. These guys never let facts get in the way of closing a quick deal.


----------



## Akasha

Richard Head said:


> Mortgage salesman at the bank is probably a little short of his sales target for his year end bonus. These guys never let facts get in the way of closing a quick deal.


I'd hardly call waiting FIVE years, a quick deal!


----------



## chefdude

I think I should take some credit for my suggested economic strategy now partially adopted :lol:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=109228606

The main problem is that RERA have set unrealistic figures to create the bands allowing for increase. The 25% figure of the average should actually be set at around 10%. When you have the 25% figure then even if the property is at a level just below the stated lowest for the area then they are not entitled to a rise. It simply does not make the slightest amount of sense


----------



## chefdude

Akasha said:


> Another kick in the teeth! Just heard that registration fees will go up AGAIN on 1st January to 6%! That's a 4% hike in 4 months. I don't know anywhere else, where you pay such fees for property.


I think you will find it is actually a 200% hike if you look at the change in what you are going to have to pay!


----------



## chefdude

Wow just spotted this story which adresses the other part of my earlier post

The other main design fault with the rental index is it makes no distinction between 1 cheque and 12 cheques, it makes no distinction between unfurnished or fully furnished and it makes no distinction between the worst building in an area and the best.

If they want to implement some sort of rent control then at least make it a fair one! 

Where is my consultancy fee?

Dubai’s Rera to soon introduce ‘realtime’ rental index
The new index will consider the views and facilities offered in a tower

Dubai Land Department (DLD) is working on introducing a new rental index that will track market rates in real time, Emirates 24|7 can reveal.

The new index will be an extensive one, which will take into account the view of a property unit, and facilities offered in a tower.

DLD Director-General Sultan Butti bin Mejren could not be reached for comments.

Currently, the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), the regulatory arm of DLD, updates the rent index every four months.

The current index only gives an average range of lease rate in a locality and does not consider any other features such as services or view, which plays an essential role in determining rentals in residential localities such as Dubai Marina, Downtown Dubai and Jumeirah Beach Residence.

In brief, rents are higher for apartments with Dubai Fountain view in Burj Khalifa, the world’s tallest tower, or more for apartments where concierge service is offered.

The differences generally originate when these factors (services, views, location) are not taken into consideration and the tenants tend to follow the rent index decision.

In Jumeirah Lakes Towers, for instance, prevailing rents are higher for apartments that are closer to the Dubai Metro station. Similarly, Discovery Gardens Zen buildings charge more rents due to their proximity to Ibn Battuta Metro Station and the mall.

It is compulsory for all rental/lease contracts in Dubai to be registered on Ejari since March 2010, making effective the provisions of Law No.26 of 2007 Regulating the Relationship between Tenants and Landlords in Dubai.

http://www.emirates247.com/property...uce-realtime-rental-index-2013-12-22-1.532115


----------



## Richard Head

Looks like they have already narrowed some of the bands. Range for a 2 bed Palm apartment last time I looked was 140 - 200k. It's now 180 - 220. So there's progress, but getting this right with many more variations will be complex. Let's hope they make it work, certainly has to be an improvement on current system.


----------



## agod

All this Good Heartedtness, on Sh Mo's part with these Rent Caps, is actually being Subsidized by us the Landlord's, coming out of the Landlords Pockets, if he wishes to do that, then let him give back the 5% of the Rental Agreement he takes from everyone.

On the Other hand and as well as............. 

I hope someone in the Government is reading this, because all this Rent Capping is actually shooting themselves in the Foot............as they take 5% of the Rent per year, it makes sense to let the Rents Rise rise to there market Value, putting more Money in there Coffers.

Al


----------



## smussuw

poor landlords

why i dont feel any sympathy :runaway:


----------



## agod

smussuw said:


> poor landlords
> 
> why i dont feel any sympathy :runaway:


Smussw, its probably because you are not one.

Where ever you have invested your Money, I suspect you would not like it controlled by a Government, if you want Social Housing to keep the Rents Low, let the Government Subsidize it themselves, Believe me you dont want the UK and its Benefit System, and you will see how it bleeds the Nation Dry.


----------



## Sid

smussuw said:


> poor landlords
> 
> why i dont feel any sympathy :runaway:


^^

Isn't this thread called 'Property and *Investment* in Dubai'?

hno:


----------



## The_Count

Any updates on akoya?


----------



## AndyH

Sid said:


> ^^
> 
> Isn't this thread called 'Property and *Investment* in Dubai'?
> 
> hno:


Indeed it is, it's not a landlord support group though.

Believe it or not some people invest as owner occupiers, shocking I know, and the constant moaning of landlords who knew what they were getting into ( or should have done), does get a bit old.

Invest here at your own risk, the rules can change daily.


----------



## Hamad-

AndyH said:


> Indeed it is, it's not a landlord support group though.
> 
> Believe it or not some people invest as owner occupiers, shocking I know, and the constant moaning of landlords who knew what they were getting into ( or should have done), does get a bit old.
> 
> Invest here at your own risk, the rules can change daily.


I think the new rule is better for landlord than the old one. It is allow to increse if the unit below the price of the market and it will let the market to increse freely so their unit will always be below the price when the market increse. Those who rent their unit in 2008 are below te market right now and will let them to increse the rent. It solve the problem why do some people still complain ?


----------



## True Blue

The_Count said:


> Any updates on akoya?


If you want my opinion on this development it would be to steer well clear. I visited it last week and would regard it as high risk. If the top developer in Dubai has had no alternative but to abandon this area then Damac, et al, will do no better.

Akoya/Damac clearly can not attract institutional funding and do not want to risk their own capital. So instead they try the old "sell it off plan with the promise of unachievable deadlines (Dec 14) and guarantee that this will be The Beverly Hills of Dubai" and let the investors take ALL the risks.

Like I say, the 3 part built towers in Bawadi stand as a monument to the fact that even Emaar could not make it work this far out into the desert. 

Take a look at the Damac sales pitch which shows a lush golf course by the sea and compare the reality of an arid golf course that has barely any grass situated in the heart of baron desert land and ask yourself, who's the fool them or me?

http://www.damacproperties.com/en/offer/offers/akoya-by-damac.html


----------



## Sid

AndyH said:


> Indeed it is, it's not a landlord support group though.
> 
> Believe it or not some people invest as owner occupiers, shocking I know, and the constant moaning of landlords who knew what they were getting into ( or should have done), does get a bit old.
> 
> Invest here at your own risk, the rules can change daily.


What's your point?

Read the small print? 'Investments can go down as well as up' or 'only invest what your able to afford up lose'

I'm looking forward to maximising my return in an open market.


----------



## The_Count

True Blue said:


> If you want my opinion on this development it would be to steer well clear. I visited it last week and would regard it as high risk. If the top developer in Dubai has had no alternative but to abandon this area then Damac, et al, will do no better.
> 
> Akoya/Damac clearly can not attract institutional funding and do not want to risk their own capital. So instead they try the old "sell it off plan with the promise of unachievable deadlines (Dec 14) and guarantee that this will be The Beverly Hills of Dubai" and let the investors take ALL the risks.
> 
> Like I say, the 3 part built towers in Bawadi stand as a monument to the fact that even Emaar could not make it work this far out into the desert.
> 
> Take a look at the Damac sales pitch which shows a lush golf course by the sea and compare the reality of an arid golf course that has barely any grass situated in the heart of baron desert land and ask yourself, who's the fool them or me?
> 
> http://www.damacproperties.com/en/offer/offers/akoya-by-damac.html


True Blue,

You are absolutely right, I guess thats why I am here. I am just speculating and its great to have a group oof you on here really doing great things


----------



## True Blue

Green Hornet said:


> When are they introducing a cap on medical fees/insurance etc?


^^Or hotel rates! Hotels can charge what they like, especially over the Christmas festive season where these crooks even charge for the New Year Party whether you want to attend or not. Greedy ba$%#$3 ! :lol: < That was just for you Sussuw 

Anyone remember what happened when flights were grounded due to the Iceland Volcano eruption? Room rates tripled over night!


----------



## smussuw

True Blue said:


> ^^Or hotel rates! Hotels can charge what they like, especially over the Christmas festive season where these crooks even charge for the New Year Party whether you want to attend or not. Greedy ba$%#$3 ! :lol: < That was just for you Sussuw
> 
> Anyone remember what happened when flights were grounded due to the Iceland Volcano eruption? Room rates tripled over night!


Unlike greedy landlords, hotels do not withhold their rooms to get a higher price. Hotels are based purely on supply and demand, not some unrealistic and artificial increase based on speculation. 

Dubai and its residents cannot absorb such stupidity :runaway:


----------



## smussuw

Green Hornet said:


> Another envious renter.


Not at all :cheers:

Any generous tenant who wants to rent my house which will be ready in the next few months, feel free to place ur offer. I am not a greedy landlord who will want to increase the rent by 40% every year. Its located in Nad Al Sheba 4 :laugh: :runaway:


----------



## AltinD

Green Hornet said:


> The last time I checked the goverment were not dictating to other businesses
> what to charge for their goods/services.
> 
> They don't tell garages how much to charge for cars.They don't tell shops what to charge for their goods.They don't tell lawyers,builders,accountants etc what to charge for their services.They don't tell bars,clubs,restaurants what to charge.
> 
> However they tell landlords what they are able to charge for their units so how is that right or fair.


Because those practices are well established, they are here for the long run and employ people to make decisions on what's best (then, who told you they are not controlled?) ... while you are just a group of temporary people with no regard of the place or the people who actually live here


PS: With all due respect to TB, they guy knows only the road connecting DXB with the Marina, and as far as Marina area is concern, thank god for Ocean View hotel, cause the only other place he knew was Barasti


----------



## AITU

Green Hornet said:


> When are they introducing a cap on medical fees/insurance etc?


Or Property Service Charges?


----------



## ironjakob

AITU said:


> Or Property Service Charges?


If they are going to try and manipulate the markets, why not go the whole hog and cut to the chase by putting a cap on property sales values?

Isn’t there supposed to be an oversupply of property in Dubai? If manipulation is the game, assuming the govt want to increase popularity and allow economic growth and stimulus in tertiary locations in Dubai (away from downtown, marina etc) then if rents are too high in the Marina etc, then cheaper rents elsewhere would encourage tenants to move to the other locations, and provide the required stimulus in those less popular locations?


----------



## cguria

unknownpleasures said:


> Can I ask you where you are getting the figure of 40% per year....you know that's not correct so why say it?
> 
> PS: That's a nice place you have there...would you mind providing a description of it...how many beds, furnished/unfurnished, maids room...what's it near? race course/shopping etc...that area is quite expensive so I am assuming it could be anywhere in the vicinity of 200,000 to 3,900,000 AED p/yr depending on size etc.....


Yes please give more details about that villa we may be interested! Have you constructed a swimming pool?

UP, let me give you an example. We have an office in Saba Tower where the market rent for it is 175-185k. We leased it out 2 years ago at 125k and didn't increase the rent last year as per some agents nonexistent law of not being able to raise the rent for the 2nd year. Today, the market rent is exactly 40% higher than contracted. We decided to not go through the hassle of fighting with the tenants to get what we want, who are genuinely nice people and have spent hundreds of thousands fitting the office out, as it's also ridiculous to ask for a 40% raise immediately. So we settled at a figure somewhere within the lines of the rent cap a few weeks before it was introduced.

I know people who have other offices in JLT who are asking for 120 psf and would rather have it empty months on end than rented out. Good for them, eventually when supply dries up, which I see happening with many companies looking for space, they will also fill up. In the end it's all up to the landlord and the rent cap is proof that enough of them are willing to let go of tenants on bad terms and have an empty unit for a month or two to get what they want. Dubai is filled with many of these landlords and the rent cap is there to protect SME's who are here to make an honest living.


----------



## smussuw

unknownpleasures said:


> Can I ask you where you are getting the figure of 40% per year....you know that's not correct so why say it?
> 
> PS: That's a nice place you have there...would you mind providing a description of it...how many beds, furnished/unfurnished, maids room...what's it near? race course/shopping etc...that area is quite expensive so I am assuming it could be anywhere in the vicinity of 200,000 to 3,900,000 AED p/yr depending on size etc.....


Am only teasing regarding the 40% increase and I wasn't serious about renting my villa because am planning to move there unless I got really an attractive offer and then I'll have to wage a war with my wife to convince her about it :cheers:

Its a 5 bedroom plus maids room, all with their own bathroom, dressing and built in wardrobes. It is approximately 7000 sq.ft. built up area and big 20000 sq.ft plot size. It has majlis, dinning and 3 living rooms, a kitchen and a panty. It has front and back car access with 2 garges for 5 cars and has an easy access from both Mohammed bin Zayed road and Al Ain road. However; only front road is constructed. The area is called Nad Alsheba 4 which is not a freehold and you need to have a a special grant to get an a plot there. It is relatively new and is out of no where for the time being. The villa is not ready so it obviously not furnished. Its 10 minutes away from Meydan, 15 minutes from Dubai mall and 12 minutes from Mirdif City Centre. No plans to have a swimming pool for the time being. In the future I am planning to add two extra rooms and bathrooms instead of the baleconies up and an outside service block that includes a kitchen, driver room and laundry room.


----------



## FBH

A rent cap? Not mentoning the morals (the government has no right to interfere with the economy), this is bad economics. I thought they knew better. That this site is full of socialists was something I neither expected. Jesus.


----------



## jasper1000

sgn7200 on hold? i hope not. Was looking forward to having the keys May 2014. If anyone can visit and confirm that would be good


----------



## Green Hornet

smussuw said:


> Am only teasing regarding the 40% increase and I wasn't serious about renting my villa because am planning to move there unless I got really an attractive offer and then I'll have to wage a war with my wife to convince her about it :cheers:



Hopefully based on the rising rents which you oppose you may get a good enough offer that will mean you will rent and not live there.

The word hypocrite comes to mind.

:cheers::runaway:


----------



## Green Hornet

AltinD said:


> Because those practices are well established, they are here for the long run and employ people to make decisions on what's best (then, who told you they are not controlled?) ... while you are just a group of temporary people with no regard of the place or the people who actually live here


Ripping off people through high medical rates,hotel rates,insurance rates,lawyer rates,etc etc etc is ok because its well established?

Ok great then in a few years time when rippng off renters is 'well established'then I assume your'll be cool with that?

:nuts:


----------



## smussuw

^^ It is a circle, when u rip people off by increasing the rent then they will be forced to increase the medical rates, retail, etc.


----------



## Morten_Denmark

smussuw said:


> ^^ It is a circle, when u rip people off by increasing the rent then they will be forced to increase the medical rates, retail, etc.


Its a really nice house smussuw. Congratulations


----------



## Green Hornet

smussuw said:


> ^^ It is a circle, when u rip people off by increasing the rent then they will be forced to increase the medical rates, retail, etc.


Whats that got to do with you being a hypocrite?


----------



## Green Hornet

smussuw said:


> Unlike greedy landlords,


Of which you are about to become one of them.

:lol:


----------



## AltinD

^^ No, he's not. The hiuse is for him


----------



## agod

I posted this Comment as a reply to this article, this is where the Land Department and RERA will see it.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/why-...y-adding-fuel-the-fire--534202.html?message=3 

I don’t know why Mr Sultan Bin Mejren has quoted that the prices will rise 40% this year perhaps he has said it, to Entice Buyers into a Rising Market, which is Flippers Territory, and then they restrict the price (Rent Caps) you can ask, as a Landlord, if you wish to rent your property out, they don’t interfere with Hotels Rates, or other Businesses Price’s, Why should they Interfere with a Landlords right to ask what he can get for his investment, they also are missing a trick, because a larger Rent, also means a larger slice of the 5% Property Tax we all pay.
I have sold my London Properties raised some Capital, and was going to buy some more Apartments in Dubai, but I cannot do that if I cannot get a Fair Rent, my Apartments like yours, are 50% below the RERA index, ( a two bed High Floor with Marina Views -140.000 to 170.000) the Tenant has had two good years at 100.000AED if I can raise the Rent 20% to 120.00AED it means that I am still under the starting price on the RERA Index for my Apartment, and as the Index moves up, I will be stuck in a Negative position never be able to Catch Up, or Rent my Place at a fair price, We need a Re-Set Day, where we can Set our Rent in line with the latest RERA Index. I am not a Greedy Landlord, and I hate that phrase, all my Tenants have my email and Phone Numbers, and I carry out regular Maintenance, I pay for, and have in place, Maintenance Packages, for any Emergency’s that may arise as well, I will go to Abu Dhabi, where they have seen sense, and scrapped the Caps, and allow the Market to set the Price.


----------



## Green Hornet

AltinD said:


> ^^ No, he's not. The hiuse is for him


'_and I wasn't serious about renting my villa because am planning to move there *unless I got really an attractive offer *and then I'll have to wage a war with my wife to convince her about it :cheers:_'


Actually to correct you smussuw is considering renting as per the quote.
So long as he is able to get a high enough rent based on the ever increasing rents which he says he is against but not when it might benefit him.

No doubt if you were an owner and not a renter you would be a 'greedy landlord' also.


----------



## Green Hornet

agod said:


> they don’t interfere with Hotels Rates, or other Businesses Price’s, Why should they Interfere with a Landlords right to ask what he can get for his investment,



Exactly.


Seems to me the Dubai goverment hate the very people who built Dubai with their investment money.
Come to Dubai they said and invest your money.Little did we know how many crooks would be allowed to rip off so many people right under the noses of them all.Then when the market crashed they did nothing.

Now that things are improving they want everyone in Dubai to benefit except of course the hated landlord.Everyone else can charge what they want.

Meanwhile so many buildings are badly maintained because landlords earning very little in rent don't want it all gone in service fees and property management fees either so they therefore don't pay the service fees.

Only an idiot would buy a property in Dubai now.

I'm sure in many countries of the world it would simply be illegal to have such a thing as a rent cap.

The idea that all landlords are evil and all renters are saints is a joke.
How many tenants like one of mine try to force the landlord down on his price threatening to leave and forcing the landlord to accept because he doesn't want an empty unit.
I would imagine there are thousands upon thousands.

When things are bad the renters give no consideration to the landlords and now that things are good again personally I say f... the renters.


----------



## FBH

I like Burj Dubai, Emirates Towers, and Burj al Arab, but few other buildings. It seems Ronald McDonald earns more on architecture than hamburgers in the city.


----------



## FBH

Supply of property will isolated fall, but only because the market can't meet demand on the supply sides terms. If we build they will come - cap the rent and they want, but they can't.

House prices will isolated fall because of too low yields, but in the end increase as renters starts buying.


----------



## smussuw

edit


----------



## smussuw

Green Hornet said:


> Actually to correct you smussuw is considering renting as per the quote.
> So long as he is able to get a high enough rent based on the ever increasing rents which he says he is against but not when it might benefit him.
> 
> No doubt if you were an owner and not a renter you would be a 'greedy landlord' also.


I see I've been the centre of ur attention lately, do u have me in your dreams too? :cheer:

You hold up the word greedy on me yea? Everyone is looking for a good offer but unlike you greedy landlords, I would understand why the government made the cap and I will not whine about it. If no one accepted my offer then I will STFU. Also as I said before, its very unlikely to begin with.


----------



## Green Hornet

smussuw said:


> I see I've been the centre of ur attention lately, do u have me in your dreams too? :cheer:
> 
> You hold up the word greedy on me yea? Everyone is looking for a good offer but unlike you greedy landlords, I would understand why the government made the cap and I will not whine about it. If no one accepted my offer then I will STFU. Also as I said before, its very unlikely to begin with.



You're probably rarely the centre of attention so enjoy it whilst it lasts.

You really can't see how hypocritical you are being can you.

You are again attacking 'greedy landlords'yet rather than to live in your villa and say no,you're not going to rent for some extortionate price and become one of the greedy landlords,you are infact considering becoming one thanks to the rising rents you have complained about.

Yes you will not whine about the goverment but you will damn sure take advantage of high rents and get yourself a load of cash !

I think the hole you're digging for yourself is getting bigger and bigger.


----------



## shakka

agod said:


> I posted this Comment as a reply to this article, this is where the Land Department and RERA will see it.
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/why-...y-adding-fuel-the-fire--534202.html?message=3
> 
> I don’t know why Mr Sultan Bin Mejren has quoted that the prices will rise 40% this year perhaps he has said it, to Entice Buyers into a Rising Market, which is Flippers Territory, and then they restrict the price (Rent Caps) you can ask, as a Landlord, if you wish to rent your property out, they don’t interfere with Hotels Rates, or other Businesses Price’s, Why should they Interfere with a Landlords right to ask what he can get for his investment, they also are missing a trick, because a larger Rent, also means a larger slice of the 5% Property Tax we all pay.
> I have sold my London Properties raised some Capital, and was going to buy some more Apartments in Dubai, but I cannot do that if I cannot get a Fair Rent, my Apartments like yours, are 50% below the RERA index, ( a two bed High Floor with Marina Views -140.000 to 170.000) the Tenant has had two good years at 100.000AED if I can raise the Rent 20% to 120.00AED it means that I am still under the starting price on the RERA Index for my Apartment, and as the Index moves up, I will be stuck in a Negative position never be able to Catch Up, or Rent my Place at a fair price, We need a Re-Set Day, where we can Set our Rent in line with the latest RERA Index. I am not a Greedy Landlord, and I hate that phrase, all my Tenants have my email and Phone Numbers, and I carry out regular Maintenance, I pay for, and have in place, Maintenance Packages, for any Emergency’s that may arise as well, I will go to Abu Dhabi, where they have seen sense, and scrapped the Caps, and allow the Market to set the Price.


Very well said. The way things are now we as landlords will never be able to catch up to the latest rent until the tenant moves out. We as landlords could then say not do any maintainance not provide any service as our motivation to encourage tenants to leave. Now thats not really what it should be about but thats whats coming. 

My tenant is being unreasonable in my rent increase request (And its in accordance with RERA) So what do I do well for a start not renew the Mplus policy that provides 24 hr 365 days a year cover in case anything happens. Also do I have to let him have access to the parking space cos its not on the tenancy agreement. See what I mean..


----------



## shakka

I cant believe some of the comments on here. There doesnt seem to be any logic behind it. Read what you have posted you should be embarrased.
Its socialist vs capitalist principals & we all know whats happened to socialism.

Its simple if you cant afford the rent wherever you are then move to an area where you can afford. The only reason the rent is now higher is because someone is prepared to pay the price asked. 

Its just like saying I want to live in Notting Hill but I only want to pay AED 35,000 a year. Its not going to happen isnt it when you have a mass of people who want to live there & will pay the price of living there.


----------



## True Blue

shakka said:


> Very well said. The way things are now we as landlords will never be able to catch up to the latest rent until the tenant moves out. We as landlords could then say not do any maintenance not provide any service as our motivation to encourage tenants to leave. Now thats not really what it should be about but thats whats coming.
> 
> My tenant is being unreasonable in my rent increase request (And its in accordance with RERA) So what do I do well for a start not renew the Mplus policy that provides 24 hr 365 days a year cover in case anything happens. Also do I have to let him have access to the parking space cos its not on the tenancy agreement. See what I mean..


I had a look at my tenancy contracts to refresh myself on the procedure for notifying a rent increase.

It seems that you have to provide a minimum notice of 90 days and clearly explain the terms which you intend to revise in the event that the tenant intends to renew. So it may be the case that you only intend to revise the term relating to the amount of the rent, so this should be quite easy.

The next recommendation is to notify the tenant that the increase is in line within the "GUIDELINES" set out by the RERA rent increase calculator and therefore complies fully with all laws currently in force. (It appears that the rent increase calculator is just a guidance tool and not law, therefore it will only be used to settle disputes in front of a Rental Committee. Suppose your rent is currently 19% below the index, then would it be reasonable to apply an increase of 7% to round up the rent to a more reasonable figure? Food for thought!)

Perhaps the wording should look something like this;



> NOTICE OF INTENTION TO REVISE THE TERMS OF THE TENANCY AGREEMENT.
> 
> I refer to the tenancy contract for apartment _____ within building _____ between ourselves which is due to expire on ______. Under the terms of the agreement and in compliance with the laws in force, I (Landlord) am obliged to give you (Tenant) 90 days notice of any proposed changes to the tenancy agreement should you intend to renew on or before the expiry date.
> 
> I hereby notify you that I intend to revise the rental amount upwards by 5% from 100,000AED to 105,000AED. This proposed increase complies fully with the guidelines of the RERA rent increase calculator and and all other relevant laws currently in force.
> 
> If you do not accept the increase then I am entitled to a minimum of 60 days written notice from you (Tenant) of your intention not to renew the tenancy. If you fail to provide such notice then the tenancy will be deemed to renew automatically on expiry of the current agreement and payment of the new amount will become due immediately. The tenancy remains subject at all times to receipt of all payments.
> 
> _(optional paragraph, which could be included in a follow up notice at day 61 before the expiry if the Tenant does not reply to the proposed increase_)
> Please note that if you do not provide 60 days notice of your intention not to renew and you subsequently terminate the agreement by providing less than 60 days notice or by leaving or not paying on the due date. Then I am entitled to deduct such sums, as are reasonable, from the security deposit to compensate for any subsequent delays incurred in re marketing and void period incurred in finding a replacement tenant.


Of course if you have a good relationship with the tenant then the above could be worded less formally. Formal is always good for those occasions when you want the tenant to know you are running a professional business and won't tolerate any nonsense. 

How many hotels let you overstay or checkout late without previous agreement? It has happened to me on a few occasions now where the tenant says they don't know what they will do and won't make a decision within the prescribed time. Then in the final week say they will move out. In one such occasion the Tenant was insisting on a reduction in rent as his company had reduced his allowance. I had already made it crystal clear that I would not be reducing the rent and he subsequently blamed me for him not renewing and leaving without giving notice. Doesn't leave much time to organise a trip, arrange inspections, etc. And when I arrive in Dubai after the tenancy has expired his furniture is still in the apartment, but it is the removal company's fault this time and he isn't willing to pay for the extra days. :lol: 

I've been burned a few times now and always make sure I follow the rules and the terms of the agreement when it comes to renewals and notices. I always give a notice when I intend to deduct money from the deposit and show the calculation clearly. A landlord can hold the deposit for up to 30 days after the Tenant provides proof of clearance of all Utility Bills or 60 days from the expiry if the Tenant leaves you to do everything. But you must always write to the Tenant and keep them informed of your intention to hold a deposit and any amounts you are deducting or intend to deduct. Don't rely on conversations as they are useless in front of a Rent Committee. Professional Landlords or their competent agents will never fall foul of the Rent Committee if they are open, transparent and play by the rules.

Onwards and Upwards :cheers:


----------



## Green Hornet

shakka said:


> My tenant is being unreasonable in my rent increase request (And its in accordance with RERA) So what do I do well for a start not renew the Mplus policy that provides 24 hr 365 days a year cover in case anything happens. Also do I have to let him have access to the parking space cos its not on the tenancy agreement. See what I mean..



What else can one do to make a renewal contract less attractive and deter a tenant from renewing?

Can certain clauses be taken out?For example I believe theres a clause that means you have to release the tenant from the contract within two months if they lose their job.Can that be taken out or legally not?Anything else?
Can you insist on a large deposit?Can you add clauses to the contract?

I've given my tenants one years notice to quit stating I intend to sell.However I will 'change my mind' and offer them a chance to renew 3 months before the end of the contract.I'm hoping by then they would have already considered moving and may have made up their mind to do so although thats unlikely as they would probably be paying more in rent.


----------



## AndyH

Green Hornet said:


> I've given my tenants one years notice to quit stating I intend to sell.However I will 'change my mind' and offer them a chance to renew 3 months before the end of the contract.I'm hoping by then they would have already considered moving and may have made up their mind to do so although thats unlikely as they would probably be paying more in rent.


Ahhh Dubai Land-lording at its finest..this is exactly why I bought.


----------



## Green Hornet

AndyH said:


> Ahhh Dubai Land-lording at its finest


Thankyou so much for your compliment.

Next time my tenant tries to screw me again I shall think of you.


----------



## Akasha

Any EIB mortgage customers waiting for handover in CRW? PM me for details - I wrote a long post detailing the issues, but it was removed. Can't be bothered to repeat it here. But I have info. Cheers.


----------



## man city fc

Akasha said:


> Any EIB mortgage customers waiting for handover in CRW? PM me for details - I wrote a long post detailing the issues, but it was removed. Can't be bothered to repeat it here. But I have info. Cheers.


I don't have a mortgage with EIB, but I would still like to know any issues with CRW. Thanks


----------



## Akasha

man city fc said:


> I don't have a mortgage with EIB, but I would still like to know any issues with CRW. Thanks


No issues with CRW. But issues and delays for mortgaged investors due to squabbling.


----------



## AndyH

unknownpleasures said:


> Those who have bought and live in them won't have any issues or will they experience the one-sided situation the landlords have to put up with......not everyone can purchase so they rent which is something that will not go away as it provides a roof over their head. People who bought should rent their place first before talking out of now where land. Experience it first and see how easy it is (not!)...



But no one is forcing you to let your property? So why complain? if you dont like the regulations sell it, or think more carefully in future about investments. No such thing as high return for no risk, I think we all know that by now.

Investing in AUH may be fine now, but we all know they can make u-turns in policy decision at any time. Sticking to more mature markets may be a better option.

I do have full sympathy for landlords with problem tenants who dont pay on time, cause a nuisance, neglect the property etc etc. I have been there myself several times. Its HUGE annoyance, stress and extra cost.

What I don't have sympathy for is "investors" here who cant get the returns they wanted, when they know full well how fickle the market and regulations are here.


----------



## Green Hornet

AndyH said:


> But no one is forcing you to let your property?
> 
> 
> What I don't have sympathy for is "investors" here who cant get the returns they wanted, when they know full well how fickle the market and regulations are here.



No-one is forcing renters to live in Dubai either.


As for the returns for landlords,we all accept poor prices when the market is down.We also all have to put up with tenants screwing us down on price when the market crashes.What is plainly wrong and harder to accept is when we are not able to get market value because of the goverments meddling whereas they don't meddle anywhere else.


Remember,investors money which includes landlords money built Dubai.



Just to remind me,can anyone remember the goverment putting a rent cap on when the market crashed so in fact stopping rental prices from plummeting?
No they didn't did they.Therefore whilst a tenant could just not renew his contract and take a much cheaper unit even in the same building,a landlord has to allow his tenant to stay and therefore lose money year in year out.


----------



## AndyH

Why are you so intent on stirring the pot then? Just padding your deflated post count again. :lol: 
Yes I appreciate that someone needs to own the properties that renters live in, too bad the UAE didn't get more into Housing Associations, social housing, Government/Institutional owned housing, Corporate owned compounds and the like. e.g. The money my company gives people for housing allowances every year would pay the mortgage on a compound or 100 unit tower and it would be owned after 10 years or so. 

Anyway, its all a bit late for that isn't it 

To Green Hornet: Hasn't the rent calculator and the "5%" rule of thumb been around for a couple of years (2011 or before?) when the markets were still relatively low.. Its just been laid out in more detail now.


----------



## Green Hornet

AndyH said:


> To Green Hornet: Hasn't the rent calculator and the "5%" rule of thumb been around for a couple of years (2011 or before?) when the markets were still relatively low.. Its just been laid out in more detail now.



Good point.Rather than to put a rent cap in place when prices where high,the goverment did it when prices were still low incase prices escalated which they are doing.Therefore they have protected the tenant and screwed the landlord.

I think you're on our side after all.

:cheers:


----------



## True Blue

I think the government's meddling in the housing market is deeper routed than we might have believed.

When I bought my first apartment it was for my use only. The reason I now rent it out is that my property owners visa, which was written into the agreement and sponsored by Emaar, has never been delivered. I can only visit Dubai for 1 month at a time.

After it mainly being left empty for a full year, the lure of £26000 in one cheque was too much to resist. 

It has now occurred to me that the reason that the property visa was never given to owners, may have something to do with the lack of accommodation at the time for the people who came to Dubai to work rather than evade harsh winter weather in their own country.

The truth now is that Dubai doesn't need to use the property visa trump card to attract foreign investment. The returns on rental are enough of an incentive and it is this element that they are seeking to maintain control of. It shows that they have been manipulating the market since Freehold development began. 

Will they ever do what the authorities in Abu Dhabi did and stop manipulating and interfering?


----------



## cguria

This discussion has changed my views on government interference. Thanks for all your contributions.. the market should not be controlled in any way and should operate on supply and demand.


----------



## Rider

jeetha said:


> 1M...that's yesterdays news, today it's heading for 1++ &+


Studios in Silverene are going for 1.2M


----------



## londonboy 1

Rider said:


> Studios in Silverene are going for 1.2M


So what is the average rent for a marina studio?


----------



## noir-dresses

People can we keep this thread what it always was minus the human rights, and religion please.

It's getting a little old now, not to mention boring to read.


----------



## UKNewguy

noir-dresses said:


> People can we keep this thread what it always was minus the human rights, and religion please.
> 
> It's getting a little old now, not to mention boring to read.


AGREED. I come here for investment advice and not human right talk or landlord bashing.


----------



## Green Hornet

Obviously now and again the topic will stray and I'm sure everyone on here has been guilty of that so just remember.


----------



## akhiabani

Computer generated pictures with all the false ads to collect our money.
Rholding needs to refund this project but they aren't replying to any of my emails...


----------



## True Blue

I just had my knuckles wrapped for using the "I" word in the No 9 Marina thread. So then I come here for investment chat and it is full of Labour rights issues and chat about the Taliban. :lol:

Can we please keep it to investment and Landlord bashing please. Let's face it, Landlords are the biggest group of investors in Dubai and are the most powerful people in the region. 

Bash away :bash:

:lol:


----------



## Rider

londonboy 1 said:


> So what is the average rent for a marina studio?


I have heard that vacant studios can now fetch 70k but obviously the RERA restrictions will lower the average.


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> I just had my knuckles wrapped for using the "I" word in the No 9 Marina thread. So then I come here for investment chat and it is full of Labour rights issues and chat about the Taliban. :lol:
> 
> Can we please keep it to investment and Landlord bashing please. Let's face it, Landlords are the biggest group of investors in Dubai and are the most powerful people in the region.
> 
> Bash away :bash:
> 
> :lol:


Exactly the thread has strayed off into dummy ville.

We are all aware of risk, then the smart one's are also aware free, or to good to be tree when it comes to money also comes with a mouse trap.


----------



## Green Hornet

True Blue said:


> Let's face it, Landlords are the biggest group of investors in Dubai and are the most powerful people in the region.



I don't think so.

If that were true there would be no rent cap in place and Sheikhy wouldn't have told the BBC the other day they he won't let prices shoot up because of Expo.

Sheikh Mo doesn't have to worry about votes etc so he can do as he pleases.
He does have to remember that if he keeps a rent cap then less people will buy property in Dubai but so far that doesn't seem to bother him.


----------



## dubaiprojects

I have recently dealt with Select for their West Avenue project and I do not think they are bad as been projected on skyscrapercity.
At least I received a better service. 
I am inclined towards investing in this project, however i will need to ensure the payments strictly linked to construction status or more on the levels of floor constructed.
The name of the building is very ugly though :-(

cheers


----------



## True Blue

Green Hornet said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> If that were true there would be no rent cap in place and Sheikhy wouldn't have told the BBC the other day they he won't let prices shoot up because of Expo.
> 
> Sheikh Mo doesn't have to worry about votes etc so he can do as he pleases.
> He does have to remember that if he keeps a rent cap then less people will buy property in Dubai but so far that doesn't seem to bother him.


I was alluding to the unlikely action of all landlords deciding that if they can not rent their properties at rates decided by the market, then they would not rent them at all. Such a collective protest would leave Dubai with a serious problem that would leave the authorities with 2 choices;

Either back down and soften their stance on rent controls. 

or

Introduce laws which prevented the landlords having control of their properties. Forced requisitioning of property to provide accommodation for the workers in Dubai. (we are part way there at the moment as expat property owners can not easily obtain residency to live in their own property and need to serve 1 years notice to evict tenants).

If they opted for the second option then Dubai would damage their reputation as an investable region. Property prices would crash and people would think twice about buying here.


----------



## True Blue

dubaiprojects said:


> I have recently dealt with Select for their West Avenue project and I do not think they are bad as been projected on skyscrapercity.
> At least I received a better service.
> I am inclined towards investing in this project, however i will need to ensure the payments strictly linked to construction status or more on the levels of floor constructed.
> The name of the building is very ugly though :-(
> 
> cheers


^^Easily pleased!

Select are not as bad as projected!! And you bought in a project that is not yet delivered, is running approximately 4 years late and you have no idea what the quality of the final product and its facilities will be. 

Without asking the question; 4 years lost rent = ? Tell me if you think West Avenue tower looks exactly like the one depicted in the brochure?


----------



## Hamad-

Green Hornet said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> If that were true there would be no rent cap in place and Sheikhy wouldn't have told the BBC the other day they he won't let prices shoot up because of Expo.
> 
> Sheikh Mo doesn't have to worry about votes etc so he can do as he pleases.
> He does have to remember that if he keeps a rent cap then less people will buy property in Dubai but so far that doesn't seem to bother him.


Sh mo is bedouin . We have culture of taking care of people. Sh zayed give people free housess what is wrong if sh mo protect expat from rent rise ?! 

That what make this place successful. Free thing to big copration no tax. U bought your apartment cheaper than london because the developer get free tax moeny and free land giving to them by sh mo. Then you complain about sh mo why u accept the free staff he give to you since you aceept you have to accept what he take from you or that would be double standard


----------



## Cookstar

unknownpleasures said:


> You and so many others.....
> 
> Try contacting RERA/DLD by phone or email...there were two schemes Tayseer and Tanmia.....


Thanks, already been to the government website and its as useless as it can get. The whole system in Dubai as evidenced in the last 20-30 posts I read is still the same joke I found out it was in 2008.


----------



## dubayyy

Any thoughts on why all the recent launches in Downtown, including today's Emaar Boulevard Point, have been serviced apartments rather than outright apartment sales? 

I have experience of this type of investment and wonder if buyers are aware of exactly what they are putting their deposits down on in the hubris of trying to secure a property in Downtown. Are the terms and conditions of future rental returns, maintenance costs, owner usage etc fully explained? 

This is a very different kind of sale and your future buyers, by nature, would also be investors and sales prices will be a function of the rental income determined by the operator. Rental income is very much dependant on operators who are in the business of maximising profits and leave very very little flexibility for buyers. 

Also very rare is the operator who is completely transparent with the costs and income from a rental pool and their contracts are usually very one sided with no scope for negotiation. 

I know occupancy rates in Dubai are high just now. But even with very high occupancy rates rental returns to investors can be very low and you're completely at the mercy of the operator. 

Buyers beware!


----------



## dubayyy

Any thoughts on why all the recent launches in Downtown, including today's Emaar Boulevard Point, have been serviced apartments rather than outright apartment sales? 

I have experience of this type of investment and wonder if buyers are aware of exactly what they are putting their deposits down on in the hubris of trying to secure a property in Downtown. Are the terms and conditions of future rental returns, maintenance costs, owner usage etc fully explained? 

This is a very different kind of sale and your future buyers, by nature, would also be investors and sales prices will be a function of the rental income determined by the operator. Rental income is very much dependant on operators who are in the business of maximising profits and leave very very little flexibility for buyers. 

Also very rare is the operator who is completely transparent with the costs and income from a rental pool and their contracts are usually very one sided with no scope for negotiation. 

I know occupancy rates in Dubai are high just now. But even with very high occupancy rates rental returns to investors can be very low and you're completely at the mercy of the operator. 

Buyers beware!


----------



## London21

^^ I have a few units in service apartment industry. The returns have always been way better than renting it out on the open market -even during the downturn of 2009. You have absolutely no hassle of finding tenants, tenant disputes, signing contracts etc.. + you normally have 3 options with these apartments:
1) live in them
2) give it to the hotel pool to run it for you
3) rent it in the open market as a normal apartment

You take your pick!

If you buy an already built serviced apartment, the price would be alot higher if the apartment is in the hotel pool programme. Often you have waiting lists for your apartment to be included in the hotel pool. This is because you get more in rent with less hassle + you can stay in your apartment for a couple of week. In my opinion this type of investment is best ever.


----------



## Varun124

dubayyy said:


> Any thoughts on why all the recent launches in Downtown, including today's Emaar Boulevard Point, have been serviced apartments rather than outright apartment sales?
> 
> I have experience of this type of investment and wonder if buyers are aware of exactly what they are putting their deposits down on in the hubris of trying to secure a property in Downtown. Are the terms and conditions of future rental returns, maintenance costs, owner usage etc fully explained?
> 
> This is a very different kind of sale and your future buyers, by nature, would also be investors and sales prices will be a function of the rental income determined by the operator. Rental income is very much dependant on operators who are in the business of maximising profits and leave very very little flexibility for buyers.
> 
> Also very rare is the operator who is completely transparent with the costs and income from a rental pool and their contracts are usually very one sided with no scope for negotiation.
> 
> I know occupancy rates in Dubai are high just now. But even with very high occupancy rates rental returns to investors can be very low and you're completely at the mercy of the operator.
> 
> Buyers beware!


Actually, I think Boulevard point is not a serviced residence. The details on Emaar's website makes no mention of it being serviced or any association to the Address or Vida brands.


----------



## londonboy 1

*Remram*

Any thoughts about buying in remram? I noticed the prices are going up fast may be because renters have been forced out of the marina and JLT due to the rental hikes, I was interested in 1 bed in phase 1 advertised for 750 k, now the agency said the owner wants 950? Any comments from people who know the future of this area will be appreciated .


----------



## dubayyy

Varun124 said:


> Actually, I think Boulevard point is not a serviced residence. The details on Emaar's website makes no mention of it being serviced or any association to the Address or Vida brands.


 Ahmad Al Matrooshi, managing director, Emaar Properties, said: “Meeting the demand for serviced residences as second homes in Dubai, Boulevard Point will redefine the luxury living experience


----------



## cguria

dubayyy said:


> Ahmad Al Matrooshi, managing director, Emaar Properties, said: “Meeting the demand for serviced residences as second homes in Dubai, Boulevard Point will redefine the luxury living experience


There does seem to be some confusion, but probably a mistake by the press here. Emaar would specifically mention on it's website if a new project is serviced or not. As they did in the Overview for Vida, there is no indication that Boulevard Point are service branded units.

I guess time will tell, on launch day!


----------



## pauldxb

*Snagging, Finally.....*

After 5 years I have finally snagged my sienna Lakes villa. I expect the villa to be handed over in around 20 days. I have to say it was as nice as I expected, work was completed to a high standard with only minimal snaggings required.

:banana:


----------



## pauldxb

ps500 said:


> I visited the Sanctuary Falls show house this weekend and was very impressed, but they are busy selling their final phase of villas but do not appear to have restarted construction.
> 
> I am very interested in buying here but would welcome the views and experiences of the long suffering investors here, also could somebody advise the original selling prices of earlier sales and the payment profile, presumably it was not the current offer of 40% during construction and 60% on completion.
> 
> What are existing customers getting told about the completion timescales for your villas.
> 
> Any information would be greatly appreciated.


^^

I would not touch Sanctuary Falls, great show villa but that's where it ends !!

I have several friends / colleagues who own in this development and they are all very angry with the developer. The master developer JGE has given them every opportunity to get back on site yet every time there is an excuse. It would seem that they have found a partner in the project but this project and Sundials stink to me. I would look at sienna Lakes, Olive Point and Lime Tree Valley first.


----------



## Hamad-

unknownpleasures said:


> Interesting.....I wonder how many investors were caught up in all of this yet Nakheel have come out with a huge profit ...this would leave them no excuse for not completing what they started......any comments ??
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/business/i...ar-profit-rise
> 
> Thousands of completed Dubai homes help developer Nakheel report 27% full-year profit rise


Nakhel has debt 59 billion dollar not derham !! And they getting free land and selling housess of course they will make profit but do you ever think about how much they need to sell to pay them self out !! 

I think nakheel has to go bankrupt since 2008 all their project has to gevien to new developer . There is no meaning of selling half of dubai to just pay this mess out. Nakheel have to build palm jebel ali, waterfront and nakhel hurbor and tower and sell them all to repay 59 billion dollar.


----------



## OmarBeirut

Hello, I tried to search for a thread that talked about jobs and living in Dubai but there wasn't any and this seemed to be the closest thread topic regarding my question. See I'm an architecture student at LAU (Lebanese American Uni) 2nd year, and I just wanted to ask what is it like for an architect in Dubai (salary, lifestyle, benefits, kind of companies to work with, etc...). I know that it varies according to experience and nationality, just for a Lebanese "fresh" architecture graduate with minimal experience coming to work in Dubai, how would it be and what would the salary be? If this is not the appropriate thread for this question then please guide me to a proper thread. I would appreciate it very much if an architect answers this question, but if someone who has enough info, who isn't an architect, it would be great too! Thanks you guys


----------



## Singidunum

Does anyone have any inside info on EMAAR 3B$ project "Eagle Hills" in Belgrade that should include a riverbank tower?


----------



## londonboy 1

Are we heading for a another 36% rise as per Goldman Sachs?

Goldman Sachs Group followed, saying, fears of Dubai’s real estate market experiencing a bubble were “exaggerated. It added that prices were 36 per cent below their 2008 peak even after rising by about a third from a low in the second quarter of 2011.


----------



## Green Hornet

londonboy 1 said:


> Are we heading for a another 36% rise as per Goldman Sachs?
> 
> Goldman Sachs Group followed, saying, fears of Dubai’s real estate market experiencing a bubble were “exaggerated. It added that prices were 36 per cent below their 2008 peak even after rising by about a third from a low in the second quarter of 2011.



If a unit worth 1m before the crash was then worth 400.000 afterwards taking into account prices dropped around 60% I believe,then they would have to rise 150% to get back to pre-crash levels.


If units are 36% below peak then that represents a rise of 60% making a 400.000 unit after the crash now worth 640.000.

As far as I know prices haven't risen 60%.Maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Face81

Green Hornet said:


> If a unit worth 1m before the crash was then worth 400.000 afterwards taking into account prices dropped around 60% I believe,then they would have to rise 150% to get back to pre-crash levels. If units are 36% below peak then that represents a rise of 60% making a 400.000 unit after the crash now worth 640.000. As far as I know prices haven't risen 60%.Maybe I'm wrong.


We're about 20%-30% below the pre crisis peak right now.


----------



## Green Hornet

Face81 said:


> We're about 20%-30% below the pre crisis peak right now.


To get to - 20%, if prices dropped - 60 % then they would have had to rise
100% which I don't think they have.

Correct?

1m - 60% = 400.00
400.000 + 100% = 800.000
800.000 = - 20%

Also prices for example on the Marina , Arabian Ranches etc I would imagine would have risen more than prices for International City,Discovery Gardens etc so when these figures
are quoted they are a little misleading.


----------



## Face81

Green Hornet said:


> To get to - 20%, if prices dropped - 60 % then they would have had to rise 100% which I don't think they have. Correct? 1m - 60% = 400.00 400.000 + 100% = 800.000 800.000 = - 20% Also prices for example on the Marina , Arabian Ranches etc I would imagine would have risen more than prices for International City,Discovery Gardens etc so when these figures are quoted they are a little misleading.


If prices are 20%-30% below peak, we would be at 700k-800k, instead of the 1 million you paid before the market correction.

As for price rises, you will be surprised to know that in percentage terms, places like International City, DG and IMPZ have see prices soar by 50%-70% since the bottom of the market, well ahead of the top tier sub markets, simply because the absolute psf values are do much lower.


----------



## smussuw

Pre crash properties were sold for 1 million even though they are worth 400,000 . Prices doubled and trippled in few months only. The peak shouldnt be taken as a benchmark.


----------



## Face81

smussuw said:


> Pre crash properties were sold for 1 million even though they are worth 400,000 . Prices doubled and trippled in few months only. The peak shouldnt be taken as a benchmark.


In theory, you’re right, the peak shouldn’t be used as a benchmark, however in order to comment on market performance, points of inflection have been used historically, not just for Dubai, but any other global city and the same applies to any other commodity. Although the conditions that led to the peak are unlikely to ever be replicated exactly, no two peaks or troughs are ever going to have the same drivers, which is what makes them important benchmarks when charting the performance of any commodity.


----------



## Green Hornet

Face81 said:


> If prices are 20%-30% below peak, we would be at 700k-800k, instead of the 1 million you paid before the market correction.
> 
> As for price rises, you will be surprised to know that in percentage terms, places like International City, DG and IMPZ have see prices soar by 50%-70% since the bottom of the market, well ahead of the top tier sub markets, simply because the absolute psf values are do much lower.


Its difficult to know what a unit is really worth when you can go onto Dubizzle and see a big difference in price between units in the same district or even the same building.
I guess maybe thats down to the position of the unit.What floor its on,whats the view,does it have a balcony whereas a cheaper unit doesn't etc.

What you're saying is that what were the lowest value units are the ones that have risen the most in price?
That goes to show that when reports give an average percentage rise across the board it doesn't give a true account of whats happening in Dubai as prices in some areas are different from other areas.


----------



## AndyH

just to lighten the tone.. lol

http://www.panarabiaenquirer.com/wo...owcase-the-very-best-in-dubai-rent-increases/


----------



## Face81

Green Hornet said:


> What you're saying is that what were the lowest value units are the ones that have risen the most in price?
> That goes to show that when reports give an average percentage rise across the board it doesn't give a true account of whats happening in Dubai as prices in some areas are different from other areas.


Bingo!


----------



## Green Hornet

Can someone tell me where to find the Dubai rental index?

Also I assume if you have a tenant with a 6 month contract you can increase the rent every 6 months especially if that tenant is paying below market value?


----------



## Green Hornet

*Dubai house prices in key areas surge by 45% in one year*

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...s-surge-by-45-in-one-year-2014-01-26-1.536151


*
Dubai on track for property upswing **says Phidar Advisory*
http://www.emirates247.com/dubai-on...wing-says-phidar-advisory-2014-01-07-1.533851

_'Phidar predicts there will be a strident call for ‘Affordable Housing.’ And this could well be the cornerstone of Dubai’s steady growth.

Approximately 90 per cent of the additional 277,000 Expo-jobs will only be generated from 2018 onwards, according to Oxford Economics.

Over 80 per cent of employed residents living in Dubai earn less than Dh10,000 per month. Consequently, if the statistics are overblown they can lead to inaccurate conclusions'_



*Dubai’s prime apartment prices still far below 2008 levels, rise imminent*
http://www.emirates247.com/dubai-s-...2008-levels-rise-imminent-2014-01-27-1.536269


----------



## AndyH

Green Hornet said:


> Can someone tell me where to find the Dubai rental index?
> 
> Also I assume if you have a tenant with a 6 month contract you can increase the rent every 6 months especially if that tenant is paying below market value?


AFAIK 6 month contracts are not legally binding, you can draft and sign one, but the law states that 12 months is the minimum term.

Even so, whether its 6 or 12, you still need to issue 3 months formal notice for any chance in the contract, and if the tenant refuses to accept it, then you (or they) have to take it to the rent committee. The loser pays the filing cost to open the case, which I think is 5% of the annual rent?

As a landlord I am surprised you dont know this?


----------



## Green Hornet

AndyH said:


> AFAIK 6 month contracts are not legally binding, you can draft and sign one, but the law states that 12 months is the minimum term.
> 
> Even so, whether its 6 or 12, you still need to issue 3 months formal notice for any chance in the contract, and if the tenant refuses to accept it, then you (or they) have to take it to the rent committee. The loser pays the filing cost to open the case, which I think is 5% of the annual rent?
> 
> As a landlord I am surprised you dont know this?


I'm surprised just because I'm a landlord you think I should know everything about rental laws.

If 6 month contracts are not legally binding then I have a tenant who does not have a legally binding contract then.

I think you might be wrong on that one.


----------



## True Blue

^^I think he means that 6 months contracts are not within the scope of Rera rent index as anything less than 1 year is considered a short term rent. 

==============
*UPDATE FOR GREEDY LANDLORDS* :lol:

*Can you increase the rent in the second year of a tenancy?*

I was reviewing the laws today because when I went to put my tenants rent up 2 years ago, I was told by BH renewals department that I could not put the rental up in the second year. Something I read recently suggested that it was unclear if this law still existed. 

Well hopefully this clarifies it;

This link takes you to the rent increase calculator, and includes a link to the relevant laws. http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/English/eServices/RentalIncreaseCalculatorEN.aspx

Law number 26 of 2007 states;



> Article (9)
> Landlord and tenant mush specify rent value in the tenancy contract, and should
> not increase such rent value or amend any of tenancy contract conditions until
> the elapse of two years from date of inception of the original tenancy relationship.


HOWEVER, Law 33 of 2008 amended some of the provisions of Law 26. It *cancelled* some of the original articles in Law 26 and replaced them with new Articles with same numbers. Articles (2), (3), (4), *(9)*, (13), (14), (15), (25), (26), (29) & (36) of the Original Law shall be replaced with new articles;

Article 9 (amended) now reads;


> _
> Article (9)
> 1. Landlord and tenant must specify rent value in the tenancy contract. If both
> parties have not specified the same or if it becomes impossible to prove their
> agreement then rent shall be as per the similar rent.
> 2. The Committee shall specify the similar rent in accordance with the standards of
> specifying the rent increase percentage applied by the Agency and in accordance
> with the general economic circumstances in the Emirate, and pursuant to the
> property status, the similar market rent in the same area and in accordance with
> any valid legislation in the Emirate regarding properties’ rent and any other
> factors the Committee may decide._


So there is now no longer any mention of a rule stating you need to wait 2 years before you can apply an increase, or change any of the other terms of the tenancy. I don't know why people find that confusing, it is crystal clear to me


----------



## True Blue

smussuw said:


> Pre crash properties were sold for 1 million even though they are worth 400,000 . Prices doubled and tripled in few months only. The peak shouldn't be taken as a benchmark.


I agree with your closing statement. The peak does not reflect the true value, just an over inflated asking price (bubble territory). Many sellers fly a kite as high as they can. Read on;

I bumped into many agents when I was in Dubai in December. 2 were leaving Dubai as business had slowed. Yes prices were healthy but not many sales were going through. Mainly because the sellers were up to their old tricks of the boom days.

This is how it worked back then and it is rearing its ugly head again today. Sellers get a few agents in who appraise the property. The property is then listed and as the agents put an attractive value on it, the property generated interest. Buoyed by the flood of viewings, the price floats up. Every time an offer is lodged, it is rejected and a new asking price is requested. Eventually the buyers give up and walk away. This is now the top of the market and no one views the property as the price is unrealistic and agents do not want to waste their time with a seller who does not appear genuine, he is just playing the market.

Now the price starts to soften. The seller begins to panic and starts to cut his price. The buyers run scared as no one wants to buy in a falling market. The market tanks until confidence returns. Then the cycle starts all over again with no one wanting to sell until they determine the top of the market.

The agent from Get Real Estate said it was just a waste of his time finding a buyer at the asking price as the seller just puts the price up again. In Scotland we have a law called "offer and acceptance". If you offer to do something (sell property for a given price, for example) and someone accepts your offer, then you have a contract. So if you put the price up and break the contract, then you can be sued for breach of contract. This is why in Scotland we invite "offers over" a stated price or "fixed price" offers. To stop wasting peoples time, while they try and read the sellers mind


----------



## OmarBeirut

..


----------



## agod

Hi Omar.

Your Post is utter nonsense, and you need to follow your own Destiny, and not ask Daft Questions on a Thread for Property and Investment.

How do you expect anyone to give you advice on your Family's Future.


----------



## Green Hornet

True Blue said:


> ^^I think he means that 6 months contracts are not within the scope of Rera rent index as anything less than 1 year is considered a short term rent.


So what does that mean? How does having short term rent change things?

My agents put the price up by 5% when the contract was renewed for 6 months last November so thinking about it I guess they can do the same if the tenant renews in May otherwise I will be getting 5% on the next 6 months which would equate to 2.5% over the year.
In fact I believe I will be able to put it up by 10%.


----------



## Green Hornet

OmarBeirut said:


> P.S: I once asked a question in this thread about me wanting to be an architect in Dubai and how much money they make and what kinds of benefits do they receive, but no one replied. So I would appreciate if someone does reply now.


There are various forums for Dubai which will give you the answers just go search for them.

Heres just one.
http://www.dubaiforums.com/


----------



## Green Hornet

True Blue said:


> I agree with your closing statement. The peak does not reflect the true value, just an over inflated asking price (bubble territory).


So whats the true value?

No-one can say.Right.

Like Face said you just have to use the peak prices as a guide because theres not much to go on I guess.

Dubai is such a new market that its still trying to find its level and all these games that sellers play will go on until Dubai gets its act sorted out.


----------



## Green Hornet

*Dubai on track for property upswing says Phidar Advisory*
http://www.emirates247.com/dubai-on...wing-says-phidar-advisory-2014-01-07-1.533851

_'Phidar predicts there will be a strident call for ‘Affordable Housing.’ And this could well be the cornerstone of Dubai’s steady growth.

Approximately 90 per cent of the additional 277,000 Expo-jobs will only be generated from 2018 onwards, according to Oxford Economics.

Over 80 per cent of employed residents living in Dubai earn less than Dh10,000 per month. Consequently, if the statistics are overblown they can lead to inaccurate conclusions'
_
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm surprised that no-one has commented on this article I posted earlier.
80% on less than 10K is very interesting.


As for the 277.000 jobs.Really?

If thats how many jobs get created I guess most of them will be gone after Expo?
I also assume most will be low paid jobs.


----------



## True Blue

Green Hornet said:


> So what does that mean? *How does having short term rent change things?*
> 
> My agents put the price up by 5% when the contract was renewed for 6 months last November so thinking about it I guess they can do the same if the tenant renews in May otherwise I will be getting 5% on the next 6 months which would equate to 2.5% over the year.
> In fact I believe I will be able to put it up by 10%.


Not sure if you are winding me up here!

I am sure if you think about it for long enough you will realise the difference between short term rents and long term tenancies. And why one needs regulation to protect the rights of tenants who are in it for the long run.


----------



## True Blue

Green Hornet said:


> So whats the true value?
> 
> No-one can say.Right.
> 
> Like Face said you just have to use the peak prices as a guide because theres not much to go on I guess.
> 
> Dubai is such a new market that its still trying to find its level and all these games that sellers play will go on until Dubai gets its act sorted out.


Some people buy with their hearts and some with their heads. But if you market a property for sale and you can not find a buyer, then it has been over valued by the seller. That is where agents come in, they know the market and know what a property may be *"worth"* on the open market. Surveyors use data on sold prices of similar properties to arrive at a *"value"*.

There is an old adage that something is only worth what someone will pay for it. If you need to sell, then that is the only factor that counts. If you don't need to sell you can fly a kite and see if anyone goes with their heart instead of their head.


----------



## AndyH

Green Hornet said:


> I'm surprised just because I'm a landlord you think I should know everything about rental laws.


Of course you should be aware, or you just keep out of it and leave it to professionals who do know. Thats why its in such a state as everyone thinks they can just do as they please.



True Blue said:


> ^^I think he means that 6 months contracts are not within the scope of Rera rent index as anything less than 1 year is considered a short term rent.


Yeah sorry, of course short term lets (holiday lets etc) and feasible, but under another framework. You need a licence for them now, no?


----------



## Green Hornet

AndyH said:


> Of course you should be aware, or you just keep out of it and leave it to professionals who do know. Thats why its in such a state as everyone thinks they can just do as they please.


Whos talking about doing as they please.

I asked a question and thats it and yes I have the professionals managing my properties which is why I don't need to know everything about rental laws
but yes I should be aware which is why I'm on here.


----------



## Green Hornet

True Blue said:


> Not sure if you are winding me up here!
> 
> I am sure if you think about it for long enough you will realise the difference between short term rents and long term tenancies. And why one needs regulation to protect the rights of tenants who are in it for the long run.


I think you're winding yourself up mate.

Tenants can sign short term rents and be in it for the long term.
The last few contracts one of my tenants has signed have been 6 months but hey I'd love him to leave so I can then get market value.

Sorry but I still don't know how short term rents differ from long term especially in terms of rent increases etc.


----------



## True Blue

Green Hornet said:


> I think you're winding yourself up mate.
> 
> Tenants can sign short term rents and be in it for the long term.
> The last few contracts one of my tenants has signed have been 6 months but hey I'd love him to leave so I can then get market value.
> 
> Sorry but I still don't know how short term rents differ from long term especially in terms of rent increases etc.


If I have a tenancy contract for 1 year then I can't increase the rent until the end of that year. If I have a tenancy contract for 6 months then I can increase the rent twice per year if the tenant keeps renewing (same 90 days notice is required).

The law clearly states that if you want to change the terms of the agreement then you have to give 90 days notice. So it is possible with very short term rents to increase the rent up to 4 times per year if you keep the same tenant. 

I would normally expect a tenant to sign short term leases simply because they don't intend to stay in Dubai for very long. Hence every time the tenant changes, you can start again with asking the full market value. 

You do not need to refer to the increase calculator to work out a rent increase for a new tenant.

If this hasn't explained the difference then sorry but I can't help you.


----------



## True Blue

It's good to see that with the return of the good times, the Landlord is King again;

Utter Bastard of the year award goes to; :lol::rofl:

http://www.panarabiaenquirer.com/wo...owcase-the-very-best-in-dubai-rent-increases/


----------



## Green Hornet

True Blue said:


> If I have a tenancy contract for 1 year then I can't increase the rent until the end of that year. If I have a tenancy contract for 6 months then I can increase the rent twice per year if the tenant keeps renewing (same 90 days notice is required).
> 
> The law clearly states that if you want to change the terms of the agreement then you have to give 90 days notice. So it is possible with very short term rents to increase the rent up to 4 times per year if you keep the same tenant.
> 
> I would normally expect a tenant to sign short term leases simply because they don't intend to stay in Dubai for very long. Hence every time the tenant changes, you can start again with asking the full market value.
> 
> You do not need to refer to the increase calculator to work out a rent increase for a new tenant.
> 
> If this hasn't explained the difference then sorry but I can't help you.


This is pretty much what I figured so wanted for someone to confirm which you have done.Basically so the rent can be increased every time a short term contract is renewed if its below market value which overall doesn't mean you can earn more over a year from a one year contract.

The only advantage I can see is that if you wanted for the tenant to leave in order to sell or live there yourself you would have less time to wait
as I assume with a short term contract you still only need to give 3 months notice.

I wasn't looking for the calculator.I was looking for the price index so I know what the rent averages are.


----------



## True Blue

^^ The calculator gives you the current rental index after you insert your data.

Currently a 1 bed in the marina has an index of 90,000 - 120,000 and gives the average of 105,000 for determining the increase amount.

I must point out to everyone that the RERA rent increase calculator specifically states that it is a "guidance tool". I take from that statement that you might want to increase by 7% for example if your rent amount is say 19% below the index and close to reaching 20% which would entitle you to a 10% increase. The rent calculator only goes up in 5% increments and I think that there is scope for interpolation for the sake of fairness and practicality.


----------



## Green Hornet

This calculator only gives Deira,Bur Dubai,or Free Hold.
http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/english/eservices/rentalincreasecalculatoren.aspx

Which one are you using?

How can you increase by 7%?The new guide states 5/10/15/20% increases?

I assume if you are at 19% then its tough and you would lose that extra 5%?


----------



## True Blue

Green Hornet said:


> This calculator only gives Deira,Bur Dubai,or Free Hold.
> http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/english/eservices/rentalincreasecalculatoren.aspx
> 
> Which one are you using?
> 
> How can you increase by 7%?The new guide states 5/10/15/20% increases?
> 
> I assume if you are at 19% then its tough and you would lose that extra 5%?


As I said before, I'm not sure if you are winding me up and having a laugh at me keeping replying. 

Select freehold, then you are given a new drop down in which you select Dubai Marina, JLT etc.

Regarding your second comment, I thought I made it quite clear how you can increase by 7% when your options are 5%, 10% etc. It is a *"GUIDANCE TOOL"*

http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/english/Tanzeem/Rentals/Rental_Increase_Calculator.aspx



> A service to calculate increase percentages and obtain rental values in certain areas *as a guiding tool*. The user should log into RERA’s website and select the rent cap calculator link, enter the required details to enquire easily and receive the increase cap and average rental for the requested area and unit.


----------



## Palm-Host

cguria said:


> _Dubai has the fastest rising prices only in property because prices took the largest hit worldwide during the crisis, not only because of the crisis but mainly because of speculation._
> 
> _The Expo can only have such an effect on prices only because it creates so many jobs, temporarily or permanently. Any rise in property prices in my opinion is beyond the reason of a 6 month long exposition, but because of what this country offers._
> 
> _The UAE's economy is improving relative to other major economies which are where they were in 2008/2009 with slight improvements and positive outlook. Another financial crisis, less likely now with banks on high alert would not create a slump like it did in 2008. A correction IMO is very much possible if projects are announced without reasonable demand. However at the current rate of population growth (demand) and supply things look good._
> 
> _It does seem so. Depends on HHSM vision. Not very promising as he is looking at a population of 10m in Dubai by the Expo._
> 
> _The population is rising faster than it ever has been. Construction was slow in 2010, but major project restarts like MBRC, Culture Village and many more have brought back many cranes into the city._
> _
> In my eyes things looks very good for the future of Dubai, but it all depends on higher powers.. whether Shk Mo can see too far ahead too soon. The DLD increase in taxes and the initiative taken by developers to reduce flipping have made a huge difference already_


There's no way Dubai's population will reach 10 million within 6 years, Dubai is currently at around 2.2, UAE as a whole is around 8-9 million! I'm sure you mean UAE and not just the emirate of Dubai!


----------



## davidbht

is there a list of resale property prices for the UAE including rak where villas have been sold and at what price ?


----------



## BlueBath

*Cayan Tower @ Dubai Marina*

anyone knows the usual RECTIFICATION time frame for a brand new apartment in Dubai ?

after snagging and duly filled the "Property Inspection form"..... one of my friend chasing the customer service & management for over 5 months !!! No wonder the developer took each and every penny including 1 year maintenance fee in advance before handing over the keys 6 months ago !!

Is this the reality or have anything to do against such irresponsible feedback ?

By the way, I'm talking about the most sought after project "Cayan Tower" @ Dubai Marina ....... hno:


----------



## True Blue

^^It works better if you are on site and can hassle the maintenance team. Sometimes they just turn up unannounced and chap the door. If no one answers they just tick you off as no access.

Being there and making the biggest noise get you some attention.


----------



## AndyH

I only did it once, but isn't the snagging inspection done before handover? So the developer still has the keys, and you don't make your final payment until the corrections are made, and then you accept the h/o ?

if you already accepted the handover and paid before snagging, I think it will be a tough job to motivate anyone to fix the snags


----------



## BlueBath

AndyH said:


> I only did it once, but isn't the snagging inspection done before handover? So the developer still has the keys, and you don't make your final payment until the corrections are made, and then you accept the h/o ?


This is what it should be ! but in DXB it goes other way around !!

not only full payment they require, you have to pay the 1 year maintenance fee in advance together with Registration fees........

my friend lives overseas ! he blasted regular emails and sent his agent once in a month ! Unfortunately ............... nothing changed. :screwit:


----------



## True Blue

I managed to do a snagging before handover and got Cayan's contractor to deal with the snagging straight away as I told them the furniture would be coming straight after the payment was made. I warned them that any damage to the furniture caused by dust/paint etc could be very costly for them. It worked a treat and they did everything in a few days. I was in Dubai and could deal with them face to face. I walked past my apartment at 10pm and could see loads of guys working through the night. 

Next time I could not be in Dubai for handover and had to just send the money and do the snagging at key handover. Needless to say lots of stuff never happened and it was the same excuse, access. My tenant did not co operate either by travelling and refusing access. The minute you drop the pressure or give them an excuse, it just falls away.

Try and return to Dubai before your year is up and call a meeting with your customer care rep. Warn them you are coming and give them a timescale to complete all outstanding issues. If that fails escalate it to the top.


----------



## ianthy

True Blue is spot on about the snagging. I was not in Dubai but sent the 'snagging team' the print out of my furniture order and my travel dates. They simply needed to get the apt ready - it took a lot of pushing. I think it only got done as I was clear any damage to my furniture and you pay for it. It's just sad that after so many new builds Dubai should operate this process like a fine tuned machine. Just shocking the state that apts/units are handed over in. Some apt/unit owners completed their own snagging jobs - as it was never carried out by the developer.


----------



## True Blue

From the Silverene thread which may be of interest to others;



J39 said:


> Got my DEWA bill last week. Housing fee about 400 plus AED above usual.
> Has this happened to any one else and does any one know what this is about. I am an owner, not a landlord.





True Blue said:


> ^^Yes it happened to me also. My housing fee has been 0.5% of my purchase price from 2005 and they hiked it. I took my SPA and old DEWA bills to Municipality building next to Noor Islamic Bank Station where they had a special section for Housing fee complaints. I started my query and they just barked at me to give them a copy of my current DEWA bill and they will reduce it. I got a credit on my next bill and the Housing fee was reduced from 600AED down to 333AED. Not back to the original level of 288AED but close enough allowing for inflation. There was no formula or explanation of how they arrived at the new figure. Also they don't defend the hike or listen to your complaint. As soon as you sit down they just ask for your paperwork and throw it in the tray. If you are a tenant you need your Ejari or they won't entertain you.
> 
> I get the impression they are just trying it on with owners in the hope that most will not fight it or will be out of the country and can't fight it. It's Dubai's way of sorting out the crisis. Tax free my r's





icemannapoli said:


> 333 comes from 80.000 aed (average annual rent for a one bedroom in marina) * 5%= 4.000 yearly divided by 12 you have exactly 333





True Blue said:


> That's quite interesting. I was wondering why RERA hiked the rent increase index in January and that possibly holds the answer. Will they base all housing fees on the published RERA index going forward. Mmmmm! Maybe that also explains why the first thing they wanted to see was my Ejari. Typical that Ejari is now being used against us to collect more hidden tax.
> 
> Rera index at the moment is 105k for a 1 bed which was increased considerably at the turn of the year. More hikes on the way.


----------



## True Blue

*Rent increases;*

I just issued a 90 day notice to one of my corporate tenants, advising them of my intention to increase the rent by 15%. I made it clear that the rent increase is subject to the new laws and the RERA rent increase calculator. But as this is "currently under updating" for the date of the renewal, it cannot be confirmed at this time if such an increase will be legal or not until the time of the renewal.

I got a very nice reply from the company confirming that they accept the terms of the revised tenancy and request to meet them soon to sign the renewal. 

Not sure if they are just happy to deal with a professional landlord or there is an acceptance that prices are rising fast and that it makes sense to make agreements early before things escalate beyond their budgets. At the end of the day I'm happy to have received a prompt reply so I know what's happening with my finances. A different tenant was advised of an increase 2 months ago and has not yet replied. I hope they understood that the tenancy renews automatically in Dubai and that they have accepted the revised conditions by default.

Just thought I would share my experience as it often helps others in the same boat.


----------



## mackie1964

True Blue said:


> *Rent increases;*
> 
> I just issued a 90 day notice to one of my corporate tenants, advising them of my intention to increase the rent by 15%. I made it clear that the rent increase is subject to the new laws and the RERA rent increase calculator. But as this is "currently under updating" for the date of the renewal, it cannot be confirmed at this time if such an increase will be legal or not until the time of the renewal.
> 
> I got a very nice reply from the company confirming that they accept the terms of the revised tenancy and request to meet them soon to sign the renewal.
> 
> Not sure if they are just happy to deal with a professional landlord or there is an acceptance that prices are rising fast and that it makes sense to make agreements early before things escalate beyond their budgets. At the end of the day I'm happy to have received a prompt reply so I know what's happening with my finances. A different tenant was advised of an increase 2 months ago and has not yet replied. I hope they understood that the tenancy renews automatically in Dubai and that they have accepted the revised conditions by default.
> 
> Just thought I would share my experience as it often helps others in the same boat.


Thanks TB. I am about to do the same with my Tenants.

The Monthly rent for My own serviced apartment where I have been living recently in the Marina (paid for by my company) has been increased by nearly 40% by landlord and they can't get into trouble (obvious reason / who owns them) so 15 - 20% feels like a good deal if they don't want the hassle of moving like me and they are unlikely to find a better deal + agent fees etc.


----------



## Green Hornet

I'm just a couple of days away from signing a new contract for a tenant.
With a 15% increase however the amount will be way down on what other similar units are being advertised for so I'm not a happy man.

It really p...... me off.Firstly my tenant screwed the price down when the market was collapsing and now he's benefitting from the goverments decision to screw landlords by not letting us raise rents to market value.

Am I right in thinking the rent calculator will be updated around April 1st?
Every 3 months.Right?


----------



## dubayyy

Short Term Rentals

Hi. Does anyone have experience with short term rentals? Can anyone recommend a good agency who can handle the management and booking of an apartment in the Downtown area on a weekly/monthly basis. 

Any pros/cons to this as opposed to letting on a standard yearly basis?

Thanks


----------



## True Blue

Green Hornet said:


> I'm just a couple of days away from signing a new contract for a tenant.
> With a 15% increase however the amount will be way down on what other similar units are being advertised for so I'm not a happy man.
> 
> It really p...... me off.Firstly my tenant screwed the price down when the market was collapsing and now he's benefitting from the goverments decision to screw landlords by not letting us raise rents to market value.
> 
> Am I right in thinking the rent calculator will be updated around April 1st?
> Every 3 months.Right?


No, it's every 4 months that they update it, so will be around the end of April/ beginning of May.

I am happy enough with my 15% increase as it keeps continuity and a good tenant (British company) who pay in 1 cheque. My friend just re-rented his identical apartment for 10,500AED more than what I am getting. But he had all the hassle of void period, travel to Dubai, agents, viewings, and de-snagging the tenant's deposit. It is worth paying for an easy life


----------



## Green Hornet

Obviously there was no need for your friend to travel to Dubai.That was his choice.
There are some good property managers out there.
However after say 3 years he will have earnt alot more in rent than you if things continue as they are.

Prices have risen so much in the last few years that most landlords would still be better off with a void period and a new tenant paying the market rate rather than the same tenant paying 30/40% less.

For every year we're stuck with an old tenant the amount we lose amounts up to alot of money.

Its not right.


----------



## AppleMac

Is there a website that shows actual selling prices for apartments in Dubai - the sale prices on GN and Dubizzle are getting silly and I want to know what a realistic value is.


----------



## True Blue

^^The crazy days are back where almost the entire market is dominated by speculators. People marketing their properties for sale, then when they get the offer they knock it back and hike the price. Full of time wasters and a completely false market.


----------



## agod

I made a Comment on one of those " we hate Landlords" Articles in The National, they contacted me and said they where going to put it in the Letters to the Editor section, it was my usual rant about Unfairness, and that the RERA index was a Great Thing and should be the only thing used by the LD to actually set the Rents, instead of being a "Guidance Only" one, what's the Point otherwise, of all that Work, I did hear the Rent Cap Law had been Amended, and perhaps they are going to let the Index be the Legal Guide.
after all.

Anyway I just thought I would have a Search and if you type my name Alan Goddfrey,and Well I am blowed, I did'nt know what I Big Gob I had.

http://thenational.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx# 

You ought to try the Gulf News as well, they Generally Edited out most of it.

Al.


----------



## gevorika78

AppleMac said:


> Is there a website that shows actual selling prices for apartments in Dubai - the sale prices on GN and Dubizzle are getting silly and I want to know what a realistic value is.


Dubai lands department website shows daily sales


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Residential property prices in Dubai will increase by 10 to 15 per cent in 2014, according to HSBC Global Research.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/your-dubai-property-to-rise-10-15-hsbc-2014-03-31-1.543709


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> Property values in Dubai will remain strong due to the strong rental market.


And due to the never ending increasing taxes in Europe more and more people as well as businesses will move to Dubai.
Dubai = the new Switzerland.


----------



## UAE Investor

Pleth said:


> And due to the never ending increasing taxes in Europe more and more people as well as businesses will move to Dubai.
> Dubai = the new Switzerland.


What about the never ending taxes,sorry fees in Dubai...

You pay more in school fees in Dubai for 2 x children than you would pay in taxes in the UK thru earnings!

And now we have visitor tax

And many other nonsense fees charged by incompetent government depts.

Tax is just a word .....Dubai engineers it way around it to seem attractive to overseas companies,

Once they see the light ,that will be the end of the Dubai property bubble...


----------



## FrankinDubai

UAE Investor said:


> What about the never ending taxes,sorry fees in Dubai...
> 
> You pay more in school fees in Dubai for 2 x children than you would pay in taxes in the UK thru earnings!
> 
> And now we have visitor tax
> 
> And many other nonsense fees charged by incompetent government depts.
> 
> Tax is just a word .....Dubai engineers it way around it to seem attractive to overseas companies,
> 
> Once they see the light ,that will be the end of the Dubai property bubble...


Again anecdotal, but just back from London and we compared school fees (privately educated) with our friends. Dubai was much cheaper.

Obviously you wont get free education in Dubai so on that level it cant compete with govt schooling.

Incompetent government departments is an understatement :lol:

*IMHO many people are CHOOSING Dubai this time around, not going to it under a hardship package. This is a massive massive fundamental.*


----------



## Pleth

UAE Investor said:


> What about the never ending taxes,sorry fees in Dubai...
> 
> You pay more in school fees in Dubai for 2 x children than you would pay in taxes in the UK thru earnings!
> 
> And now we have visitor tax
> 
> And many other nonsense fees charged by incompetent government depts.
> 
> Tax is just a word .....Dubai engineers it way around it to seem attractive to overseas companies,
> 
> Once they see the light ,that will be the end of the Dubai property bubble...


I admit the school fees are high in Dubai, but that doesn't hold people back from moving to the place. They announced 8 new schools to be built within a year, there is a huge shortage.

But taxes in Dubai?? It is peanuts. First in Europe you pay half of your wages in tax. Then the consumer goods have average 20% sales tax as a minimum, some goods like petrol, cars and sugar are sometimes hit by higher taxes.

Not to mention that company taxes don't exist in UAE.


----------



## UAE Investor

:sad2:Assuming i,m not on a hardship package.. 

2 children in school in Dubai (DSC) i need £18k ...i need to rent a town house in DSC £40K...we need 2 cars and food /bills money etc.... £20k (at least)

£80 k( approx. 460,000 Aed)

so as a male i need to earn £60k and my wife, say £20k both working six to seven days a week in Dubai!

Different if you are single with a studio allowance etc.

The whole thing does,nt stack up unless you have a top job and school accommodation allowance,which allot of skilled ex pats get i,m sure .

Surely this should work for normal waged couples as well, who have good earning potential

Problem is it does,nt ...and please Don,t compare with London,(or any other land compressed city,s around the world) 

There not building any more land and values rise accordingly !


----------



## FrankinDubai

UAE Investor said:


> :sad2:Assuming i,m not on a hardship package..
> 
> 2 children in school in Dubai (DSC) i need £18k ...i need to rent a town house in DSC £40K...we need 2 cars and food /bills money etc.... £20k (at least)
> 
> £80 k( approx. 460,000 Aed)
> 
> so as a male i need to earn £60k and my wife, say £20k both working six to seven days a week in Dubai!
> 
> Different if you are single with a studio allowance etc.
> 
> The whole thing does,nt stack up unless you have a top job and school accommodation allowance,which allot of skilled ex pats get i,m sure .
> 
> Surely this should work for normal waged couples as well, who have good earning potential
> 
> Problem is it does,nt ...and please Don,t compare with London,(or any other land compressed city,s around the world)
> 
> There not building any more land and values rise accordingly !


UAE Investor, you seem a bit miffed with Dubai, having a look at your past posts. Not a criticism, am sure we all are to some extent.

Car purchases are a one off, so not really 20k GBP per year-could be 1000aed per month on a car loan.
There is housing well below the budget you have set of 240,000 AED.
Schools are still a third to a half less then equivalent in London (private) but still expensive granted.

If you don't have the type of expat housing allowances paid for by the company, and the situation in Dubai has not put you off completely, why not consider buying?

Your housing would then be a fixed monthly cost spread out over 25 to 30 years?


----------



## AltinD

Visitor tax is charged in most European countries ..... not that it would affect residents either way :tongue3:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai recorded real estate transactions worth Dhs61 billion during the first quarter this year, up 38 per cent from the same period last year, according to the latest report from the Dubai Land Department (DLD). 

The emirate saw almost 15, 694 real estate transactions during Q1 2014, up 11 per cent from the corresponding period last year. 

There were around 11, 567 sales activities worth Dhs31.5 billion and 3,482 mortgage transactions worth Dhs28 billion, the report said. 

Other categories accounted for Dhs1.7 billion from 636 transactions, bringing the total value of transactions to more than Dhs61 billion, the DLD said. 

Sales and mortgages relating to land transactions constituted the lion’s share of deals in Q1 2014 with land mortgages amounting to Dhs24.1 billion while land sales touched Dhs17.4 billion. 

Residential unit transactions were the second highest during the period, registering sales and mortgages worth Dhs13 billion and Dhs3.1 billion respectively. 

*DLD also noted that there was an 81 per cent rise in the number of real estate investors in Q1 2014 compared to the same period last year. *

“The figures issued by DLD ‘s Real Estate Sector Development Department confirm the increased activity in the city’s real estate sector,” said Sultan Butti Bin Mejren, director general of DLD.

“They prove that Dubai is attracting property ownership, whether for long-term investment or for personal housing needs. 

“We anticipate this heightening of activity to continue over the coming years, with property buyers achieving good returns on their real estate investments. We believe that these returns will be significantly greater than those from other economic sectors,” he said.

http://gulfbusiness.com/2014/04/dubai-real-estate-deal-values-38-q1-2014/#.U004bHknISs


----------



## AW.

Of course its up nicely against same period last year i.e. Q1 2013. Any idea how was it verses the last quarter i.e. Q4 2013? I have been trying to google similar press release in Q4 2013 without much luck.


----------



## True Blue

A worthwhile read for property investors and landlords;

http://propertyonline.ae/prospects-for-2014-dubai-residential-market/

In summary, we are not back at the peak levels of 2008. Growth in both sales and rentals have seen a boost in 2013 and have remained strong at the start of 2014. They are beginning to ease now.

Taking into account inflation, the market may take a few more years to recover from the losses experienced in the crash of 2010.

As an aside, the RERA rental increase calculator is proving to be a complete joke. Today you can not establish a legal increase for a tenancy going beyond the end of this month. RERA are proving that they are incapable of regulating the market and the rent controls should be scrapped now and the market allowed to operate normally.


----------



## UAE Investor

Pleth said:


> . They announced 8 new schools to be built within a year, there is a huge shortage.
> .


there always a huge shortage in Dubai !

Why because of demand ? eerrr no!

Schools open/close/ move them,if they can,t fill them...

Its all about investment :cheers:


----------



## Monument

*Stocks of flats and villas are building at Estate Agents*

According to sources stocks are building at real estate agents in Dubai. An indication that prices are getting stretched.


----------



## UKNewguy

Do sellers also pay commission to estate agents and if so how much?


----------



## UAE Investor

UKNewguy said:


> Do sellers also pay commission to estate agents and if so how much?


Some greedy agents try to charge 4% and load the sellers 2% in with the selling price...so buyer ends up paying the higher amount.

Also they try to confuse the land registry 4%, by splitting this as well.

Also Poa (legal reps)want to get in on the act as well in Dubai ,25,000aed for 2 hours work.


9000 Aed for noc agreement....just plain nonsense!

:bash:


----------



## Green Hornet

True Blue said:


> A worthwhile read for property investors and landlords;
> 
> http://propertyonline.ae/prospects-for-2014-dubai-residential-market/
> 
> In summary, we are not back at the peak levels of 2008. Growth in both sales and rentals have seen a boost in 2013 and have remained strong at the start of 2014. They are beginning to ease now.
> 
> Taking into account inflation, the market may take a few more years to recover from the losses experienced in the crash of 2010.
> 
> As an aside, the RERA rental increase calculator is proving to be a complete joke. Today you can not establish a legal increase for a tenancy going beyond the end of this month. RERA are proving that they are incapable of regulating the market and the rent controls should be scrapped now and the market allowed to operate normally.


Price increases for those of us investing from abroad is only half the picture.

We have to keep an eye on currency as well as unit price changes.

As nice as it is to see prices rising as they have done the last two years,much of this has been wiped out by the strengthening of the pound in my case for example.So you gain in one hand and it gets taken out of the other.

Such is life >(


----------



## True Blue

Monument said:


> According to sources stocks are building at real estate agents in Dubai. An indication that prices are getting stretched.


The collapse of the Indian rupee has meant that they are largely out of the market now. Last year they were part of the main group of buyers.

The rental market is seeing vacancy rates increase in 2 bed and larger units whereas studio and 1 beds are decreasing in vacancy rates. This will have to correct soon when landlords realise they are stretching the rental market at the larger unit end.


----------



## Rider

Has anyone tried using the rental increase calculator in the past few weeks? I keep getting the following message: 

The rental index under updating.Please contact [email protected]

My tenant's contract is up mid August and I think I have to advise them of any increase 90 days in advance.


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> The collapse of the Indian rupee has meant that they are largely out of the market now. Last year they were part of the main group of buyers.
> 
> The rental market is seeing vacancy rates increase in 2 bed and larger units whereas studio and 1 beds are decreasing in vacancy rates. This will have to correct soon when landlords realise they are stretching the rental market at the larger unit end.


So true.


----------



## FrankinDubai

The daily transactions list at Dubai land department has become more detailed for flats and offices.

you can check it out by clicking here

Really enjoy following it- how sad right?

Anyways there can be quite big swings in sold prices registered for similar units and we were trying to work out what causes that. 

An example, last month recorded a 1 bed in discovery gardens sold at 880,000 aed and this week one was registered sold at 700,000.

Any ideas apart from the usual view, different floors etc.


----------



## True Blue

Rider said:


> Has anyone tried using the rental increase calculator in the past few weeks? I keep getting the following message:
> 
> The rental index under updating.Please contact [email protected]
> 
> My tenant's contract is up mid August and I think I have to advise them of any increase 90 days in advance.


The rent increase calculator is due to be updated by the end of April. That will give you enough time to serve your 90 days notice of increase. 

You can check the market prices today on www.propertyfinder.ae I don't expect the market to rise much more between today and August. In fact I see some prices starting to come down again as the vacancy rates are on the increase once more for larger apartments. Studios and 1 beds will hold stronger and may increase slightly over the next quarter.


----------



## noir-dresses

I would like to note that Dubai is going through a phase of Modernization, and not Westernization. There's a big difference between the two. It is not a Western city, but a city in the Middle East with out doubt which is transforming it self into a very modern if not futuristic city.


----------



## FrankinDubai

So just to pull this forum back to rent caps 


Having a coffee with a few others today.

*Landlords*

One of them had bought in 2008. He paid 1,000,000 for an apartment sold to him off the back of rents being at 80,000 aed per year plus.

When prices collapsed he accepted 35,000 aed in the lowest year in rent. 

He argued with due warning to tenant, he should be able to up the rent back to 80,000 aed as the market returns.

I asked if he thought he was being greedy, but he pretty logically laid out his argument as fair. 

He said he was only trying to recover a yield that was presented to him as market norm 6 years ago! He did what he had to when market collapsed etc.

*Tenants*

Those in our group, who were tenants were talking about putting up curtains and wives and kids being shoved about- and how unfair it is to be forced out. 

Everyone basically agreed 1 to 2 year warning to vacate was good enough. Landlords in our group argued 1 year, tenants argued 2 because it takes a month to settle in and a few months to relocate.

*Solutions?*

Could be an unconditional 12-24 month vacating notice is the way to go. UNCONDITIONAL being the keyword. You are messing with peoples lives so due warning is only civilised?


----------



## Green Hornet

noir-dresses said:


> I would like to note that Dubai is going through a phase of Modernization, and not Westernization. There's a big difference between the two. It is not a Western city, but a city in the Middle East with out doubt which is transforming it self into a very modern if not futuristic city.


Yes a very modern and futuristic city which has prostituted itself in the pursuit of money and turned its citizens into a minority group whilst at the same time letting go of its culture and traditions.

You call it Modernization I call it Westernisation.


----------



## Green Hornet

FrankinDubai said:


> So just to pull this forum back to rent caps
> 
> 
> Having a coffee with a few others today.
> 
> *Landlords*
> 
> One of them had bought in 2008. He paid 1,000,000 for an apartment sold to him off the back of rents being at 80,000 aed per year plus.
> 
> When prices collapsed he accepted 35,000 aed in the lowest year in rent.
> 
> He argued with due warning to tenant, he should be able to up the rent back to 80,000 aed as the market returns.
> 
> I asked if he thought he was being greedy, but he pretty logically laid out his argument as fair.
> 
> He said he was only trying to recover a yield that was presented to him as market norm 6 years ago! He did what he had to when market collapsed etc.
> 
> *Tenants*
> 
> Those in our group, who were tenants were talking about putting up curtains and wives and kids being shoved about- and how unfair it is to be forced out.
> 
> Everyone basically agreed 1 to 2 year warning to vacate was good enough. Landlords in our group argued 1 year, tenants argued 2 because it takes a month to settle in and a few months to relocate.
> 
> *Solutions?*
> 
> Could be an unconditional 12-24 month vacating notice is the way to go. UNCONDITIONAL being the keyword. You are messing with peoples lives so due warning is only civilised?



Like I said earlier,many investors would not have brought property in Dubai if they knew a rent cap would be introduced.Your landlord friend is probably one of them and there will be many more put of buying the new units that are being built or are to be launched.

No-one is forcing tenants out.If they can afford the rent then of course they can stay.If they can't afford the rent then they have to leave.Thats life.
We can't always have everything we want.

I don't agree with 12-24 month vacating notice.Thats waaaaay too long.
It takes very little time to find somewhere else to live.

Civilised?Messing with peoples lives?You are also messing with the landords life also who maybe can't afford to keep renting at low rents because its not enough to pay his mortgage,maintenance fees,property management fees and maybe this is causing him financial hardship.

Yes landlords are human beings with problems too including financial problems so lets stop thinking the tenants are always the victims.
Lets stop imagining that all landlords own many units,make a fortune,live in their huge mansions and spend all day driving around in their Rolls Royces collecting rent money.

There are many tenants who can easily afford to pay the rents they used to pay before prices went down.They live in the same units they were for example once paying 100K and are now only paying 60K.They are in the same jobs and earn the same money if not more.
They decided not to buy units and instead to rent so its their own fault if they are now wasting money on rent instead of on a mortgage on their own property.They have no right to moan.

Of course this doesn't represent all tenants but I would be sure there are many around.


----------



## FrankinDubai

^^I nearly liked your comment Greenhornet :lol: (you nearly had me feeling sorry for a landlord!!)

Here is a negative to rent control taken from econlib.org

_*"Economists are virtually unanimous in concluding that rent controls are destructive*. In a 1990 poll of 464 economists published in the May 1992 issue of the American Economic Review, 93 percent of U.S. respondents agreed, either completely or with provisos, that “a ceiling on rents reduces the quantity and quality of housing available.”source- here_


----------



## Green Hornet

FrankinDubai said:


> ^^I nearly liked your comment Greenhornet :lol: (you nearly had me feeling sorry for a landlord!!)


Why wouldn't you feel sorry for a landlord Frank?


----------



## UAE Investor

Hamad- said:


> Dubai have free-hold area and non-free-hold area . Also Dubai have rent cap area and non-rent cap area . if someone buy in Al Barsha winch is non free hold area, he can't ask to change the policy to make Al Barsha a free-hold area . of course he will make a fortune if that happen.
> 
> same thing with the rent cap. DIFC is non-rent cap area and JBR is rent-cap area you cant buy in JBR and ask to change the policy to non-rent cap area . if you don't like rent cap why you buy in rent cap area from the beginning .
> 
> i think now we know who is the idiot


i think the point about capping the rental not capping the capital gain, is a valid one,which the article i was referring to was valid imo.


----------



## DennyCrane

Tick Tock said:


> Really think about investing in any property involving Select or at least go in with you eyes open.
> They are borderline crooks, they have no intention of delivering what they promise you or in anywhere near the timescale.
> You will wait 5,6,7,8 years for this to be completed and then when it is anywhere near close they will force you to sign an amended contract.
> That is if it is ever completed which not all Selects projects are.
> Please note any promises they make to you for delayed construction are meaningless and will just be classed as force majeure and unless you take them through a long and expensive legal case you will get nothing.
> They will then hit you with eye watering service charges which you have to sign up to before you receive your property which will sap any money you may have been able to claw back.
> Add the cheap and tacky development you will end up with and it makes dealing with Select a game of russian roulette (with 5 bullets in the chamber).
> 
> In short if you can cope with all that then go ahead but in my years of dealing with them I always wished someone would have warned me beforehand.


I'll second these comments, be afraid!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Hamad- said:


> we don't want Dubai to be London


No, you want to beat it  :banana:

*Dubai Overtakes Heathrow *as Busiest Airport for International Passengers

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304163604579529130559803364

Dubai's all set to beat London in the future! 
*Dubai will overtake London, which currently attracts 16 million tourists annually.*

http://www.ahlanlive.com/next-up-for-dubai-become-worlds-most-visited-city-493562.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

> Imagine a country in which rents are negotiated annually, price rises are capped based on a benchmark approved by the government, and landlords must specify three months in advance if they plan to evict tenants
> 
> This is the basis of new proposals in the UK by the Labour party’s prime ministerial hopeful, Ed Miliband. The Conservative party has decried these as “Venezuela-style” rent controls. But to residents of the UAE, the Labour party’s plan looks pretty familiar.


Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/business/...-dhabi-to-london-rent-proposals#ixzz30xJiYOku


----------



## FrankinDubai

Dubai_Steve said:


> Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/business/...-dhabi-to-london-rent-proposals#ixzz30xJiYOku


That national thing was a terribly written article! (and I'm still undecided on rent caps)



The telegraph (Uk) ran an article on Millibands intentions to impose a rent cap.

This was the most liked comment on the article (by a looooooooong way)>>


"Oh dear what ignorance......Miliband has never lived in a real world or even had a job -........This policy will of course be a disaster - landlords will sell up, the market will crash and fewer properties will be available to let - prediction!"

This comment got 126 likes more then double any other.... source


----------



## Hamad-

Green Hornet said:


> I'm happy you like being a minority in your own country.
> 
> I'm happy you don't mind you've thrown out all of your values and culture to
> attract foreign money and migrants.


too much ignorance here again . we have been a minority before free zone and free hold . our oil money create more job than what we need . also we were 100k in 1960 so we going through population boom local by birth rate and immigrant .in 70 uae was more depend on foreign than now . Egyptian helped us to write our constitution and Jordan helped us to write our civil law. in that time no citizen were judges and most of army officers were from Jordan. most of government departments were managed by people from other Arab countries 


uae people are the most traditional arab how come we thrown our value . it is called multicultural society all culture and value co-exist .


----------



## Green Hornet

Hamad- said:


> too much ignorance here again . we have been a minority before free zone and free hold . our oil money create more job than what we need . also we were 100k in 1960 so we going through population boom local by birth rate and immigrant .in 70 uae was more depend on foreign than now . Egyptian helped us to write our constitution and Jordan helped us to write our civil law. in that time no citizen were judges and most of army officers were from Jordan. most of government departments were managed by people from other Arab countries
> 
> 
> uae people are the most traditional arab how come we thrown our value . it is called multicultural society all culture and value co-exist .


Like I said,Dubai has prostituted itself in the pursuit of money at the expense of its culture and traditions.

It's interesting how you haven't responded to that.

If you have been a minority for a long time then you are used to it which is good because when Dubais population hits 3/4/5 million then you will become almost invisible.

The fact you have had to rely on other nations in this way doesn't speak highly of your own abilities.
I now understand a little more of why the property situation in Dubai got in such a mess with so many investors cheated.I also understand a little more why the goverment bankrupted itself.


----------



## Green Hornet

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dubai's all set to beat London in the future!
> *Dubai will overtake London, which currently attracts 16 million tourists annually.*
> 
> http://www.ahlanlive.com/next-up-for-dubai-become-worlds-most-visited-city-493562.html


20m tourists is very ambitious and I can't see how it can be achieved taking into account the lack of attractions in Dubai.

If Dubailand and Bawadi was built then maybe so but without that then I don't see it.


----------



## UKNewguy

Green Hornet said:


> Like I said,Dubai has prostituted itself in the pursuit of money at the expense of its culture and traditions.
> 
> It's interesting how you haven't responded to that.
> 
> If you have been a minority for a long time then you are used to it which is good because when Dubais population hits 3/4/5 million then you will become almost invisible.
> 
> The fact you have had to rely on other nations in this way doesn't speak highly of your own abilities.
> I now understand a little more of why the property situation in Dubai got in such a mess with so many investors cheated.I also understand a little more why the goverment bankrupted itself.


A bit too deep!!!


----------



## UKNewguy

In that case, is there any other new launches in the marina?


----------



## Green Hornet

UKNewguy said:


> A bit too deep!!!


Errrrr,nope.

Maybe you need the cartoon website.


----------



## UKNewguy

Green Hornet said:


> Errrrr,nope.
> 
> Maybe you need the cartoon website.


Why are you so aggressive with everyone and everything. Chill out before you give yourself a heart attack and maybe go out now and again.


----------



## Green Hornet

UKNewguy said:


> Why are you so aggressive with everyone and everything. Chill out before you give yourself a heart attack and maybe go out now and again.


Thanks for the advice.

You seem to know more about behavioural problems then you do about Dubai property.


----------



## FrankinDubai

True Blue said:


> I have been keeping a close eye on the marina rental market and can confirm that rents are starting to fall back again. Vacancy rates were increasing drastically in 2 bed units as the asking prices spiralled, but now the rentals are going back down as landlord realise that long void periods are killing their income. Vacancy rates started to increase on 1 bed units over the last few weeks and now the rentals prices have stalled. I am predicting we will not see rents increase again until around October 2014.
> 
> This is all pointing towards a self adjusting mature market WHICH DOES NOT NEED CONTROLS!
> 
> The Rera rent increase calculator has now been restored, but with no increase on the rental index prices since December 2013. IMO Rera is incompetent as an authority. They are building new court rooms to handle the disputes which they are creating!



After a spike in rents in Discovery gardens and JLT they have also levelled for the last two months it seems.

I agree with you TB - stagnation until summer is over now. The agency I know handles 2000 odd units and thought this was more of a pause then a stop.


----------



## idontdream

^^thanks for the tip


----------



## chrisf199

Guys can we come up with a small list of apartments that are giving really ROI?

A lot of people are more confident investing in Dubai now, and it would be good to see which areas are giving the best rental yield.


----------



## londonboy 1

List

1) Marina Studios and 1 bed.
2) JLT
3) Remraam
4) JVC


----------



## idontdream

Guys what's the news with sports city ? Is it a worthwhile location to invest in or is it still gathering dust ?


----------



## FrankinDubai

chrisf199 said:


> Guys can we come up with a small list of apartments that are giving really ROI?
> 
> A lot of people are more confident investing in Dubai now, and it would be good to see which areas are giving the best rental yield.



I currently see ranges in prime of 4-6 per cent NET yields (that is after all purchase costs and first years rent less any service charges etc).

In less understood or slightly secondary I can see genuine net yields of 8 percent to 10 or even 11.

Am not giving area away at the moment because we are in process of buying! :cheers:


----------



## londonboy 1

Studios in the marina are now selling for over 1 million, things are getting crazy again.


----------



## chrisf199

FrankinDubai said:


> I currently see ranges in prime of 4-6 per cent NET yields (that is after all purchase costs and first years rent less any service charges etc).
> 
> In less understood or slightly secondary I can see genuine net yields of 8 percent to 10 or even 11.
> 
> Am not giving area away at the moment because we are in process of buying! :cheers:



Yes, I understand completely why you wouldn't want to disclose that. 

I myself personally have some of my own investments that I am getting close to 10% yield and good appreciation per MONTH as well. Even building occupancy rates are at 98%.. Well I guess you'd have to be at 98%+ occupancy to be getting those yields..

If you don't mind me asking, is the area that you're purchasing in Dubai Land by any chance?


----------



## londonboy 1

It may be no 3 on my list ,Remraam .


----------



## speculator

idontdream said:


> Guys what's the news with sports city ? Is it a worthwhile location to invest in or is it still gathering dust ?


PM me and ill point you in the right direction.


----------



## FrankinDubai

londonboy 1 said:


> Studios in the marina are now selling for over 1 million, things are getting crazy again.


Been arguing about whether to invest based on yield versus capital appreciation ....


Investing on the basis of hope, or an educated guess that prices will rise, is speculating- pure and simple.

It may be justified that you think this way- maybe a new mall or access road for the area, that you know is coming, will push prices up for example.

But it is still playing with a crystal ball.

Off plan sellers will try to catch your attention by pulling you away from fundamentals like yield.... They will tell you its the new Emirates hills, show you glossy brochures of fields of green.


No one can lie about current yields, you cannot be tricked. Of course you can speculate on the future of these yields too, but for me- yields determine price.

Its like sat nav thru all rogue Estate agent/property developer bullsh*t.


Concentrate on yields!


----------



## FrankinDubai

chrisf199 said:


> Yes, I understand completely why you wouldn't want to disclose that.
> 
> I myself personally have some of my own investments that I am getting close to 10% yield and good appreciation per MONTH as well. Even building occupancy rates are at 98%.. Well I guess you'd have to be at 98%+ occupancy to be getting those yields..
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, is the area that you're purchasing in Dubai Land by any chance?



Labour camps I hear are getting 15-25% - not what I am into but much needed at the moment.

Another one is furnished lets, again not what I am into- but certainly a way to boost immediate income.

Not Dubai Land for me.


----------



## FrankinDubai

A really interesting poll would be on expected net yields in an emerging market like Dubai.


What do you think the lowest yields would be accepted, in Dubai that is?

Some net yields in London are less then 2 per cent, do you think Dubai could end up with same status and tolerance for such low yields?


----------



## noir-dresses

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/06/world/meast/new-frontier-emerging-markets/index.html?c=business

The best performing stock market in the world is Dubai which should in some way reflect on the property market.


----------



## chrisf199

http://m.thenational.ae/business/in...ay-indicate-overheating-says-uae-central-bank

Hmmmmmm


----------



## FrankinDubai

*The Dubai Property Boom has ended*


The remarkable rebound of Dubai property prices (in some cases to pre crash levels) has happened. It is done and dusted.

The market has bounced back hard, even gone beyond its market fundamentals in the euphoria and since, contracted slightly to align avhievable sales prices with common sense (read: net yields).

*There are winners and losers*

Some properties remain under water from the dizzy heights of 2008, while some are well beyond their original purchase price.

Residential rents are now at levels where common sense starts to thump at the very real case of affordability,(20,000USD per annum for a 1 bedroom in Discovery Gardens seems hefty).

*So what next?*

Rents double from today and house prices follow suit.

Rents stay at current levels and house prices do nothing.

Rents stay at current levels, house prices increase and investors accept lower yields on their investment

Lending become more widespread, more easily available, interest rates remain low, Rents marginally increase and house prices follow.

etc

*The real money has already been made*


If you were looking for a quick buck, its over. 

Back to market norms, or fools buying into hyped off-plan.

_______________

_Source: Irish Independent Blog of wallies
note; some names have been changed and all theoretical non factual opinion of noddy of neverland._


----------



## Richard Head

^^^ Totally nailed it.


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

Gents, a bit off topic but need some advice.

I receive monthly rental income on a UK property and need to utilize the funds here in Dubai. What is the best ( chepeast ) way of transferring the funds to UAE ? My UK bank charges me 3 % on any debit transaction using a debit card which I understand is norm but which I find excessive. 

Any and all input appreciated.


----------



## icemannapoli

Try moneycorp. It's british and I found it very competitive! Usually it costs less than 1% to send and change to dhiram currency. I used it often from Italy


----------



## shakka

Or James Alexander Smart Currency 0207 898 0542. Do negotiate exchange rate on large amounts


----------



## shakka

Just been to Dubai spoke to several agents. Lots of opportunities still out there for flip or rental yield.
But stay away from Ajman for a while yet


----------



## Rob Timpie

Does anybody have any updates on Dubai Sports City?
I have the feeling like it's never going to be a 'city' in the near future. A lot of buildings haven't even started yet and it's nothing more than a building area since 2007.
A lot of off plan apartments are for sale, but I guess there are no buyers...

Does anybody have positive news?


----------



## UAE Investor

Rob Timpie said:


> Does anybody have any updates on Dubai Sports City?
> I have the feeling like it's never going to be a 'city' in the near future. A lot of buildings haven't even started yet and it's nothing more than a building area since 2007.
> A lot of off plan apartments are for sale, but I guess there are no buyers...
> 
> Does anybody have positive news?


Contributers here have,nt a clue where DSC is ,apart from Ogod who whished he had,nt!:lol:

DSC a city, still better than those Disco gardens dormitories imo!

Positive news ? yea very positive, i got the hell out !

With a nice little ..........!


----------



## Rob Timpie

Yeah, Stadium Point is even sloooower than the building I invested in...
It's a shame hno:


----------



## adam_uk

They should return all investors money or resume construction


----------



## Pleth

Today's News:
http://www.emirates247.com/news/no-...le-rent-contract-in-dubai-2014-08-08-1.558724
No eviction even if you signed non-renewable rent contract in Dubai


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The main point there is:

"it was not a valid notice and the notice should be through public notary"


----------



## hessendubai

The new visa fees System shows a landlord visa for 1100 AED.Thanks for any further Details.


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> Today's News:
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/no-...le-rent-contract-in-dubai-2014-08-08-1.558724
> No eviction even if you signed non-renewable rent contract in Dubai


Most of these disputes would not occur if we had a more competent authority in RERA. No wonder landlords try to cover themselves when they find out that they are now 19% below the market rent but can only increase rents by 5%. A market should be allowed to operate freely. If your landlord hikes your rent then leave if you can find a cheaper place. Greedy landlords will end up with empty properties and greedy tenants will end up in the streets, simple!

Rera rent calculator is due to be revised at the end of this month. They made no increases in the Marina last time.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> The main point there is:
> 
> "it was not a valid notice and the notice should be through public notary"


I don't think that is what they considered. In order to cancel the rent under the law, you need to be either going to live in it yourself or going to demolish. Even if you need it back to refurbish it, the tenant has first refusal to reoccupy based on his original rental contract.


----------



## beer51

I thought it was possible to give notice to the tenant either via public notary or registered mail. Which is correct?


----------



## Rider

beer51 said:


> I thought it was possible to give notice to the tenant either via public notary or registered mail. Which is correct?


I understood that both options where acceptable. I think the idea was that either would provide sufficient evidence that the notice was received by the tenant.


----------



## chefdude

hessendubai said:


> The new visa fees System shows a landlord visa for 1100 AED.Thanks for any further Details.


Source?


----------



## hessendubai

Landlord visa:

http://www.hoteliermiddleeast.com/21177-uaes-new-visa-system-the-fees-in-detail/1/


----------



## nas001

*Landlord Visa?*



hessendubai said:


> Landlord visa:
> 
> http://www.hoteliermiddleeast.com/21177-uaes-new-visa-system-the-fees-in-detail/1/


AED 1100 landlord visa - how long is the visa for? Is this the right visa for someone who owns a property in UAE? What is the situation if property is jointly owned - is the cost per person or per property? Finally any conditions eg property must be certain value for each owner etc?

I realise there are several issues here, but any information will be much appreciated! Thanks ^^^^^^


----------



## True Blue

*New property and multi entry tourist visas at reasonable prices, at last!*

This article explains it better;

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/visa/how-much-uae-visa-will-cost-after-increase-1.1365749

Visas last for 1 year and are renewable. Property owners pay AED1,100 per person per year. But that is not listed as a multiple entry visa. Multiple entry visas are available for tourists at AED1,500 per person per year. I wonder if you still have to be sponsored by the master developer and pay refundable sponsorship on top of the non refundable visa fee?

IMO this will boost rents and property values with so many people having problems in the Middle East being caught up in the various crises.

It will also give property owners a chance to use their own properties over the winter months and flee the cold weather. A reason I bought in Dubai in the first place.


----------



## Belfast17

*Giovanni*

I was on the Giovanni construction thread and noticed that posts about the recent 30day invoice demand from Giovanni had been removed and that posters were directed here. Just wondering what other investors are doing about this final demand? I have paid about 70% to date and kind of feel they have us in a catch 22 situation - doesn't seem like a good idea/possible to sell now but worried about throwing good money after bad. 

What are other investors views on this? Is it better to stick with it or sell - that's assuming we could get a buyer. And what about the 30 days threat of legal proceedings - what would this mean in practice? 

Reading the posts on this site doesn't give me much hope for DSC....

Giovanni did sort of apologise for the tone of the letter but not the demand. They confirmed its " nearing completion" but awaiting further clarification as to what this means ( see thread on the construction thread).


----------



## Richard Head

Our landlord got the notary public one-year termination notice, but instead of us having us sign / acknowledge it, he taped it to our front door. Might have been a photocopy, not sure, but for sure we have never signed for anything. Not sure where we stand now if we want to stay again another year, any thoughts?


----------



## AITU

Richard Head said:


> Our landlord got the notary public one-year termination notice, but instead of us having us sign / acknowledge it, he taped it to our front door. Might have been a photocopy, not sure, but for sure we have never signed for anything. Not sure where we stand now if we want to stay again another year, any thoughts?


You don't necessarily get to sign for anything, after the Notary Public process it, it is couriered to the property by Aramex. If you are not present when delivery happens (to sign) they tape it to the door.

As I understand it, that is the legal process (and no, I'm not your landlord)


----------



## Sportscity

Re GIOVANNI @ Belfast17

More or less in the same boat as u my friend. Wrote to them when got the 30 day demand but NO reply a classic catch 22... Mixed reviews and vibes from what I read and hear... Have a friend in the region who will be swinging by giovanni site and office very soon. Let's see what comes from the horses mouth!! Pics too maybe...Don't think anyone will buy this off us... Take it to Completion or bust?? Fingers crossed!!!!!!


----------



## Belfast17

*Giovanni*

Email from Jamal at Giovanni states that:

"Our anticipated completion is towards the end of this year.

The remainder of the balance will be due at the next inspection likely to be in september. And payment due end of september.

We are trying our best to complete project end of this year and hence why have an increased workforce on site to enable this to happen."

I have emailed back to ask if handover is the same as completion, if i get a reply I will post. 

Does anyone know what the nearby buildings are called - wondering when they are due to complete? Also any updates on what the surrounding infrastrucutre and amenities will be like? I did have a minimum rental guarantee way back in 2007/8 but not sure if they will be honoured now, especially if DSC will still look like a buidlign site?

But then - getting Giovanni completed will be a huige relief in itself!


----------



## Rider

arfie said:


> They are struggling to sell this development it seems. They have sold most marina facing apts but still a few left. All non marina facing apts they are struggling with as you would expect @2100 dhs per sq ft for an off plan development that will take at least 5-6 years build.


Many developers ruined the off-plan market in the last wave with all the delays, cancellations and the reneging of contracts. Anyone doing due diligence will discover this and will also be put off by the lack of protection offered by RERA and an unreliable legal system. 

Selling prices need to be discounted against finished units at comparable developments taking the above issues into account as well as the risk factor of the development not being completed (and on time) and the lack of return for 5-6 years.

The only people I see buying here are those who plan to use the apartments themselves and are happy to wait at least 5-6 years and those who haven't done any due diligence.


----------



## Abu Ahmad

newinvestor1 said:


> Hi does anyone know where the mock apartment is? I'd like to visit it.


Not sure in all honesty. You could try to contact Flash Properties or Abyaar directly in order to arrange a viewing...


----------



## CitizenKV

Sorry about this off-topic post:

I am a US resident who has visited Dubai a couple of times and love the place! We are potentially interested in investing in property there, as a hedge against the US economy meltdown that they endlessly predict here : )

Couple of Qs:

1/ Can US residents get mortgages (with 25% cash down) in Dubai for local property? Even better would be if I could get one in the US, but I haven't heard of any such here. We have excellent US credit histories (>800) and income (top 2-3 percentile), FWIW. 

2/ We are interested in buying property costing b/w 1-1.5 million AED. Assuming we can get the mortgage, how easy would it be to work with a local property management firm and rent the property to maintain cash flow on it? 

We are generally conservative (and newbie) investors, so any pointers about long-distance property investment & management is greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time...


----------



## Dubai_Steve

arfie said:


> They are struggling to sell this development it seems. They have sold most marina facing apts but still a few left. All non marina facing apts they are struggling with as you would expect @2100 dhs per sq ft for an off plan development that will take at least 5-6 years build.


Selling most of the marina facing apts in a few months does not sound like struggling to me, especially over the summer. Do you mean in 1 tower or all 3, and how many floors did they release in each so far?


----------



## UAE Investor

Belfast17 said:


> Email from Jamal at Giovanni states that:
> 
> "Our anticipated completion is towards the end of this year.
> 
> The remainder of the balance will be due at the next inspection likely to be in september. And payment due end of september.
> 
> We are trying our best to complete project end of this year and hence why have an increased workforce on site to enable this to happen."
> 
> I have emailed back to ask if handover is the same as completion, if i get a reply I will post.
> 
> Does anyone know what the nearby buildings are called - wondering when they are due to complete? Also any updates on what the surrounding infrastrucutre and amenities will be like? I did have a minimum rental guarantee way back in 2007/8 but not sure if they will be honoured now, especially if DSC will still look like a buidlign site?
> 
> But then - getting Giovanni completed will be a huige relief in itself!


Buildings near by are Bermuda views (stalled)/Champion towers 2 ( on hold for 4 years now) /Royal residency 1&2 (u/c)/Rufi twin towers (on hold) Rufi waterfront (u/c OR STOPPED ! )..there,s another 2 there (one Rufi) the other one could get demolished by the reara ends....:nuts:


----------



## agod

Hi Citizen KV.

And welcome to the Forum.

This is my Two Pennies Worth,If you are as you say you a Top Earner with a Good Credit Line, if you own a Home in the USA, assuming you have Equity in it, can you not Re-Finance there? and spend your cash Here, I would think it is impossible for you to get a Mortgage in Dubai, unless you are Working here, with a Residence Visa/Working one, they already have restrictions here on what Percentage down they need, I believe its 80/20% for Expats, and it would nigh on be Impossible to get a USA One, on a Dubai Home, they are Linked to the Dollar her so no need to cnver to Dirhams, as Dollars are Accepted, there are a Few USA Agents Working here like Coldwell Banker http://www.coldwellbanker.ae/ give them a try, at least they could Advise you Better than me................not sure 1.-1.5mm will get you much nowadays.

Good Luck Al.


----------



## CitizenKV

agod said:


> Hi Citizen KV.
> 
> And welcome to the Forum.
> 
> This is my Two Pennies Worth,If you are as you say you a Top Earner with a Good Credit Line, if you own a Home in the USA, assuming you have Equity in it, can you not Re-Finance there? and spend your cash Here, I would think it is impossible for you to get a Mortgage in Dubai, unless you are Working here, with a Residence Visa/Working one, they already have restrictions here on what Percentage down they need, I believe its 80/20% for Expats, and it would nigh on be Impossible to get a USA One, on a Dubai Home, they are Linked to the Dollar her so no need to cnver to Dirhams, as Dollars are Accepted, there are a Few USA Agents Working here like Coldwell Banker http://www.coldwellbanker.ae/ give them a try, at least they could Advise you Better than me................not sure 1.-1.5mm will get you much nowadays.
> 
> Good Luck Al.


Thanks for the response. 

We have mostly rented in Manhattan and haven't bought yet - so no home credit line possibility (we are currently also looking to purchase here). I said I have a good credit score - that US lenders look at for creditworthiness - not a credit line. 

Is that true that non-UAE resident buyers have to put down 80% of the property price to buy / get a mortgage? 

I know this is a broad Q, but what price minimum would you say a 2 bdrm apt that rents relatively easily will cost in Dubai? The main idea behind buying there for us would be to try to diversify / hedge our investment portfolio - not really trying to get rich on rental income or even property appreciation. 

Thanks much for the link - will also try to contact them. And sorry for all the newbie Qs!


----------



## agod

You got that the wrong way around, its 80/20 in your Favour

Yes someone on here will confirm it, or ask Coldwell Banker, it used to be worse than that, I think it was 60/40, but the Banks Kicked up, they are very changeable around here.

As always, its location that will determine the Price, in the Marina, you will need around 2.5 for a 2 bed.

I dont know why you don't Concentrate on Buying in the USA, prices are still Cheap over there, and get a Good Rental Return, you need to Research other States, or Purchase in Manhattan first, as thats an Area you know.

Al.

Al.


----------



## Rider

arfie said:


> Only released 1 tower it's been 4 months since they released it so that I would classify as struggling!


The Torch/Marina Heights facing apartments have no appeal whatsoever and I can't understand why anyone would be interested in these unless the prices were considerably less than that of similar finished units.


----------



## True Blue

^^Even if you worked in Dubai and had a salary in the UAE, there is a maximum loan to value ratio of 50% for apartments for expats. Villas are slightly better but not much. Banks are also less ready to lend on property not built by one of the local government sponsored companies like Emaar and Nakheel.

If you are buying for investment only, you pretty much need to be a cash buyer. I mortgaged my house in the UK which turned out to be the best piece of luck I have had. Unlike the US, we have mortgages that track the central bank base rate, so my mortgage interest rate has been discounted by -5% for over 5 years now. The risk you take about domestic mortgages is that if things go bad in Dubai and you can not generate rent income, then you could lose your home as well as the Dubai purchase.

I can't foresee a problem looming with house prices in USA as employment is as healthy as it has ever been. I think that stability in the jobs market will translate to stable house prices. However, the stockmarket is bloated and there is a strong risk of a correction sometime sooner rather than in 5 years. Some fear that the property market in Dubai is inflated however I feel that it is finding it's position and in comparison to other parts of the world it remains an attractive proposition. There is still a downside risk but I think the upside will keep it propped for a good few years. The rollercoaster is always less frightening towards the end of its journey.


----------



## True Blue

AITU said:


> You don't necessarily get to sign for anything, after the Notary Public process it, it is couriered to the property by Aramex. If you are not present when delivery happens (to sign) they tape it to the door.
> 
> As I understand it, that is the legal process (and no, I'm not your landlord)


I'm not sure about Aramex having the legal status to "serve a notice". I have seen a man in traditional dress taping a notice to a neighbour's door. Concerned about the damage cellotape can make to the wood finish, I asked him what he was doing and he showed me his identification that he was an officer of the Law court and notary public. He then took a picture of the notice on the door and left.

When this happens you have been served the notice, even if you never see it or touch it. I think they also place an announcement in a local newspaper when you do not respond to the notice which you were served. That then completes the process and you are then deemed to be in breach of the notice and can be prosecuted.


----------



## True Blue

Select have a history of lies when it comes to reporting sales. They said West Avenue was sold out several times but most of the apartments being sold there now are direct from them. They don't want you to know that sales are slow or they will have difficulty in selling them at completion. The asking prices at West Avenue are a joke for a building next to SZR with a better view of JLT than the Marina.

I believe they were also claiming Marina no 9 is sold out. I suspect not, just another West Avenue IMO.


----------



## CitizenKV

True Blue said:


> ^^Even if you worked in Dubai and had a salary in the UAE, there is a maximum loan to value ratio of 50% for apartments for expats. Villas are slightly better but not much. Banks are also less ready to lend on property not built by one of the local government sponsored companies like Emaar and Nakheel.
> 
> If you are buying for investment only, you pretty much need to be a cash buyer. I mortgaged my house in the UK which turned out to be the best piece of luck I have had. Unlike the US, we have mortgages that track the central bank base rate, so my mortgage interest rate has been discounted by -5% for over 5 years now. The risk you take about domestic mortgages is that if things go bad in Dubai and you can not generate rent income, then you could lose your home as well as the Dubai purchase.
> 
> I can't foresee a problem looming with house prices in USA as employment is as healthy as it has ever been. I think that stability in the jobs market will translate to stable house prices. However, the stockmarket is bloated and there is a strong risk of a correction sometime sooner rather than in 5 years. Some fear that the property market in Dubai is inflated however I feel that it is finding it's position and in comparison to other parts of the world it remains an attractive proposition. There is still a downside risk but I think the upside will keep it propped for a good few years. The rollercoaster is always less frightening towards the end of its journey.


Thank you both - those are useful pointers. 

So is 50% cash down the right amount for expats to buy there? Are there US based banks that lend in Dubai? I am hoping I may be able to transfer some of my US creditworthiness to borrowing there, although these things may not work that way.

And yes, I am aware of the concerns about overvaluation and of the crash that happened there a few years ago.

We are indirectly invested in US realty through a significant % of assets in REITs. Most of our investments are in the stock market, with 20-30% international allocation, and I am also concerned about the bloatedness of the stock market. It is not that I completely believe the doomsayers, but I am a little concerned about the emerging structural inequality here and how most or all of the job growth is in low paying / no benefits jobs (highlighted, for e.g. here: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/opinion/paul-krugman-inequality-is-a-drag.html?_r=0 ).


----------



## AW.

Emaar has sent demand notice for the next 20% payment which indicates 85% project completion. Now only the last 20% installment is due which is to be paid on project handover. T4 Wing seems almost complete. I believe this project will be handed over latest by Dec 2014 / Jan 2015.


----------



## NewbieDxb

..


----------



## NewbieDxb

Hi All,
I've been told that Flash properties was shut down by the authorities beginning of Ramadan due to irregularities in its dealings. Does anyone have an idea what happened? I hope this does not impact Hilliana.


----------



## beer51

Hi NewbieDxb

How did you hear about this. Can someone in Dubai pls confirm as this can be worrying.


----------



## agod

You may want to try another Route, a lot of developers had there own Finance package's when they where selling off-Plan, Select Group had a 15 Year Long Payment Plan, and a Short Payment Plan in Place, (I dont know how long that was) which you paid quarterly, a lot of there Buildings have been handed over and some Owners are still on these Plans, and are trying to sell there Apartments, I am not sure, if you can take over the Plan or even if it is Transferable, or if they still do it for there New Properties, I know about Select because I was on one.

It might be your only way to get a Property here, with out a Mortgage.

Al


----------



## Belfast17

UAE Investor said:


> Buildings near by are Bermuda views (stalled)/Champion towers 2 ( on hold for 4 years now) /Royal residency 1&2 (u/c)/Rufi twin towers (on hold) Rufi waterfront (u/c OR STOPPED ! )..there,s another 2 there (one Rufi) the other one could get demolished by the reara ends....:nuts:


Thanks UAE Investor. Makes me wonder now should I cut my losses and run or pay the balance and hold out. According to the developer completion by end of this year and handover about a month after that. But if nothing round it will be completed getting scared again.


----------



## man city fc

Once the Medetaranian is handed over (which is in process now), the whole workforce are going onto the Venetian, so I've been told....


----------



## ianthy

agod said:


> You may want to try another Route, a lot of developers had there own Finance package's when they where selling off-Plan, Select Group had a 15 Year Long Payment Plan, and a Short Payment Plan in Place, (I dont know how long that was) which you paid quarterly, a lot of there Buildings have been handed over and some Owners are still on these Plans, and are trying to sell there Apartments, I am not sure, if you can take over the Plan or even if it is Transferable, or if they still do it for there New Properties, I know about Select because I was on one.
> 
> It might be your only way to get a Property here, with out a Mortgage.
> 
> Al


The plans are not available with the new developments - you need to have your finance or mortgage. The other buildings where some owners are on Long Term Payment plans - these are not transferrable - despite the fact that Select said at the time they would be. The debt or loan book has also been sold to Standard Chartered Bank. 

I bought from Select before and to be honest there are better developers in Dubai with finished Apts/units. Select would not be at the top of my list to buy from again.


----------



## UAE Investor

man city fc said:


> Once the Medetaranian is handed over (which is in process now), the whole workforce are going onto the Venetian, so I've been told....


Med already handed over...last year no...?


----------



## Barracuda

arfie said:


> Only released 1 tower it's been 4 months since they released it so that I would classify as struggling!


They are definitely struggling for Dubai norms. They told me when I had a meeting with a sales person that everything goes quick, tons of sales bla bla.
Prices were outrageous, availability close to zero, so I walked out backwards again. They kept calling me back for weeks with miraculously appeared availability, better conditions and lower prices, so obviously sales were not that impressive....


----------



## man city fc

Meant European sorry.....


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Beer and Newbie - re Flash Properties being shut down, lets continue our discussion on the Acacia Avenues thread.

Best,
Abu Ahmad


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Flash Properties shut down

So I guess you guys have heard now that Flash Properties has been shut down. I was told this by the agent I purchased my apartment from a couple of weeks ago. She has reiterated that construction of Hilliana is ongoing and I in fact spoke to a contact at Abyaar directly who confirmed the same.

My understanding is as follows:
- Flash Properties were an independent agent simply managing Hilliana sales and admin on behalf of Abyaar (I'm guessing because Abyaar are based in Kuwait and perhaps don't have a Dubai admin office)
- We made all payments directly to the Hilliana DIB escrow account and not to Flash Properties
- We should therefore have received receipts from Abyaar confirming payments

Importantly Abyaar are the developer not Flash Properties hence InshaAllah there shouldn't be an impact on construction etc.

Having said that can some of our trusted friends on the ground in Dubai please drive by the site and confirm that construction is still ongoing and perhaps take a few pics? 

Any additional information anyone might have, please do feel free to share.

Regards,
Abu Ahmad


----------



## icemannapoli

A lot of interesting info into this July newsletter of Emaar projects!

http://media.emaar.com/properties/13082014/TheEMAARPROJECTSNLJuly2014.pdf


----------



## beer51

Hi Abu Ahmad

Who did you speak to in Abyaar. Do you have their phone number please. 

thanks
beer


----------



## beer51

Abu Ahmad

Just saw your post. For some weird reason my post has gone in the wrong section.

Should we worry about the payment we have made. What about the apartment contracts that haven't been signed.


----------



## NewbieDxb

I posted a message yesterday which also went to another section. 

My understanding is that there are two people from Abyaar in Dubai (http://www.abyaar.com/index.php/dashboard/ourTeam), and they have a small office in downtown somewhere. When one of them was contacted recently they were not even aware of flash properties being shutdown which I am surprised since they deal with them regularly.

The risk I see if if Abyaar is also implicated within this issue with Flash properties, which could lead to the authorities stopping the Hilliana project.


----------



## beer51

Hi NewbieDxb

Thanks for your reply. Do you know exactly where their office is as it seems i will have to visit them in person regarding my apartment.

thanks


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Hi Beer,

Just sent you a PM.

Thanks
Abu Ahmad


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Guys,

I just checked the Dubai Land Department website for a list of all approved developers and Abyaar is listed as one of them. A list of their projects also includes Hilliana. Interestingly if you check the approved list of brokers, as expected Flash Properties is not listed. So whatever it's worth, DLD has updated the list of brokers to now exclude Flash Properties but Abyaar is still an approved Developer, which in theory should mean that they are still licensed to carry on development activities.

If anyone can visit the Abyaar office or even the site to witness construction first hand, things should become a little clearer, InshaAllah.

Abu Ahmad


----------



## beer51

Just sent you a PM Abu Ahmad

Checked Flash Properties website and it is active.


----------



## tonydubai

Hi all, I'm soon heading to DSC to take the keys of my European apartment. It will be 7 years and 9 months since we paid our initial deposit...but I'm happy it's come to handover. Anyone else in this position?


----------



## True Blue

Why has the title of this thread been changed? Personal Property Investment!!!

Is this another new rule introduced by the UAE moderators, that we are not allowed to discuss the market or mention anything negative.

The level of censorship in this part of the forum is becoming unbearable. I agree with removing offensive or pointless posts, but removing them because it is bad news or harms the image of the region, is not on!

I live in a free world where I am allowed to speak my mind and share my opinions sensibly. Not the one that some want for Dubai, where you are not allowed to say anything negative whether it is fact or not.

It is clear that there is a moderator on this forum who has an agenda.


----------



## idontdream

agod said:


> I dont know why you don't Concentrate on Buying in the USA, prices are still Cheap over there, and get a Good Rental Return, you need to Research other States, or Purchase in Manhattan first, as thats an Area you know.
> 
> Al.
> 
> Al.



Because as he has said. The US is finished.


----------



## UAE Investor

idontdream said:


> Because as he has said. The US is finished.


i was in the us recently (florida)

they where building new highways and loads of infrastructure ,,..

Compered to Dubai ...other way round!

:cheers:


----------



## UAE Investor

Belfast17 said:


> Thanks UAE Investor. Makes me wonder now should I cut my losses and run or pay the balance and hold out. According to the developer completion by end of this year and handover about a month after that. But if nothing round it will be completed getting scared again.


They always lie about completion dates ....

Most Apartment building running 7 years behind in Dubai sports city..used to think it was lack of funds ,but not so sure now?

Construction seems to speed up if the developer has the funds or does some sort of deal ..ie profit sharing etc (banks could also be involved).

Have i just contradicted myself

Could also depend on how many investors are on board.


----------



## shakka

Lets keep it about Dubai & property. We should be able to say our experiences regarding developers & how Dubai is weather it is negative or positive.


----------



## idontdream

UAE Investor said:


> i was in the us recently (florida)
> 
> they where building new highways and loads of infrastructure ,,..
> 
> Compered to Dubai ...other way round!
> 
> :cheers:


Don't let that fool you. You need to look deeper than the surface. The US is finished and the meltdown will happen and its not a question of IF but WHEN.


----------



## Kshaikh

Dear Newbie, yes flash properties closed due to unknown reason, Hillana now look after directly by ABBYAR ,main developer, during ramdhan I have signed the SPA directly.


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Kshaikh said:


> Dear Newbie, yes flash properties closed due to unknown reason, Hillana now look after directly by ABBYAR ,main developer, during ramdhan I have signed the SPA directly.


Thanks Kshaikh. Have you been to the site recently? How is construction coming along? And where is Abyaar's Dubai office?

Sorry for all the questions!


----------



## Kshaikh

Souq-al-bahr core G office no 313 behind burj khalifa


----------



## dublin2009

Belfast17 said:


> I was on the Giovanni construction thread and noticed that posts about the recent 30day invoice demand from Giovanni had been removed and that posters were directed here. Just wondering what other investors are doing about this final demand? I have paid about 70% to date and kind of feel they have us in a catch 22 situation - doesn't seem like a good idea/possible to sell now but worried about throwing good money after bad.
> 
> What are other investors views on this? Is it better to stick with it or sell - that's assuming we could get a buyer. And what about the 30 days threat of legal proceedings - what would this mean in practice?
> 
> Reading the posts on this site doesn't give me much hope for DSC....
> 
> Giovanni did sort of apologise for the tone of the letter but not the demand. They confirmed its " nearing completion" but awaiting further clarification as to what this means ( see thread on the construction thread).



Hello,

I am in the same boat. Do not know what to do. Sell or pay.

My email address is [email protected] if want to discuss.

regards

rory


----------



## NewbieDxb

I find it odd that all investment related conversations are thrown here, it doesn't make sense since all the conversations are jumbled up.

kshaikh, Abu Ahmad, Beer51 - Not sure what your experience has been, but allow me to give my 2 cents. I bought a 1 bedroom a year back through flash properties (FP), at which point it was quite clear that FP agents were not very competent. There was clearly some agreement between FP and Abyaar, as I was told they had exclusivity in selling Hilliana (can't confirm) and Abyaar was not visible throughout the transaction. All checks were channeled through FP. I finally received my SPA 2 months back, so it took more than a year to get it. Abyaar contacted me for the last installment in June (prior to that it was FP contacting me), so it could have been a signal that something is happening.

I have been told two stories so far about FP:

1) By person I was dealing with at FP -> Sponsor had an issue with FP on profit sharing and hence was closed down by authorities until issue is resolved
2) Someone who spoke to a former agent at FP -> FP over sold certain projects (possibly including Hilliana) and in some cases kept the money for itself and did not give it to Abyaar.

My gut is that the truth is somewhere in the middle, since 1) doesn't make sense as FP had become an established player (likely making a lot of money) and closing the business is a loose-loose situation for both parties. The second story is also strange since any sane investor would ensure the checks are written to the escrow account and not FP. 

I do not want to guess the situation, but I have some comfort that all my payments are made to an escrow account. My concern is that Abyaar is not a very transparent and visible company in Dubai, and if it indeed was close to FP, any legal issues may point fingers to Abyaar also and project could get caught up. 

Visiting Abyaar's website, checking the RERA website or speaking to Abyaar does not provide me any comfort as issues such as these can take a spin for the worse at any time and there is always a delay. Having said that, I do not have much choice right now except to wait and see.


----------



## montranieri

*One bed apartment in Dubai Marina*

hi all, i am arriving in Dubai next week after almost 2 years of absence. we own a flat in Dubai Marina since 2007. we lived there till 2012 and then we rented it since we moved to singapore. our flat was overall a very good investement so far and we are now tempted to buy another one. 
we are loking at 1 bed flat but budget is limited, i would like to pay no more than 1.1 milion aed + trasfer and commission and for this reason i am looking at few towers only which might stay within this budget such as marina wharf , time place, pinnacle... i am not considering all diamonds, dreams, dec, manchester towers since i think location not ok and quality lower, but i might be wrong ..
my questions:
1) do you think it is a good time to invest in dubai at the current price levels?
2) do you think that at the moment is possible to negotiate hard the prices down considering the slowdown and fear of a new bubble by some?
3) do you suggest other towers to look at ? 

thanks for any advise


----------



## Abu Ahmad

@ Newbie - completely agree that discussing all personal investments in this thread is very confusing and creating a lot of unnecessary traffic. Why cant we just have these discussions in the relevant project thread? 

My experience of Hilliana has also been mixed. I actually didn't purchase through FP but through another agent who was involved in sales back in December 2012 / Jan 13. I have also made all payments to the DIB escrow and have receipts from Abyaar. I also agree that FPs customer Service skills / competency was pretty average. I have received the SPA but haven't signed as I have some issues with some points.

Anyhow, would greatly appreciate if someone can post some construction updates on the Acacia Avenues thread which would hopefully help answer any questions / doubts regarding progress.


----------



## tonydubai

*It's finally hapenning...........*

Hi all on Canal Residence thread...well after 7 years and 8 months I'm finally going to pick my keys up in the next few weeks. I'm in European. I know the whole development has still a way to go but at least i can start getting a return. 
Anyone else is the same position, a few tricky things to sort out, DEWA, Emicool etc but I'm sure they will sort themselves out..

Happy Days...


----------



## UAE Investor

tonydubai said:


> Hi all on Canal Residence thread...well after 7 years and 8 months I'm finally going to pick my keys up in the next few weeks. I'm in European. I know the whole development has still a way to go but at least i can start getting a return.
> Anyone else is the same position, a few tricky things to sort out, DEWA, Emicool etc but I'm sure they will sort themselves out..
> 
> Happy Days...


It would be nice ..errr incredibly rare to see a poster ,keep us up to date re the hand over issues and costs involved etc...

How did or is snagging going ?


Amazing they announced snagging in December 2013/ January 2014 for handover...stole another eight months of investors time and money.

Sorry, good luck after such a long time.....:banana:


----------



## UAE Investor

Abu Ahmad said:


> @ Newbie - completely agree that discussing all personal investments in this thread is very confusing and creating a lot of unnecessary traffic. Why cant we just have these discussions in the relevant project thread?
> 
> My experience of Hilliana has also been mixed. I actually didn't purchase through FP but through another agent who was involved in sales back in December 2012 / Jan 13. I have also made all payments to the DIB escrow and have receipts from Abyaar. I also agree that FPs customer Service skills / competency was pretty average. I have received the SPA but haven't signed as I have some issues with some points.
> 
> Anyhow, would greatly appreciate if someone can post some construction updates on the Acacia Avenues thread which would hopefully help answer any questions / doubts regarding progress.


Here has always been the domain of the imperialistic landlord ....you know the type that goes round buying up property everywhere with tax payers money and then charges some poor sod a fortune ...causing a property bubble...ie over inflated prices .

:cheers:


----------



## man city fc

tonydubai said:


> Hi all on Canal Residence thread...well after 7 years and 8 months I'm finally going to pick my keys up in the next few weeks. I'm in European. I know the whole development has still a way to go but at least i can start getting a return. Anyone else is the same position, a few tricky things to sort out, DEWA, Emicool etc but I'm sure they will sort themselves out.. Happy Days...


Congratulations Tony, let us know how you go on..


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> Why has the title of this thread been changed? Personal Property Investment!!!
> 
> Is this another new rule introduced by the UAE moderators, that we are not allowed to discuss the market or mention anything negative.
> 
> *The level of censorship in this part of the forum is becoming unbearable.* I agree with removing offensive or pointless posts, but removing them because it is bad news or harms the image of the region, is not on!
> 
> I live in a free world where I am allowed to speak my mind and share my opinions sensibly. Not the one that some want for Dubai, where you are not allowed to say anything negative whether it is fact or not.
> 
> It is clear that there is a moderator on this forum who has an agenda.


This SSC is just becoming a joke. Let's start another forum.


----------



## UKNewguy

Second that


----------



## dubayyy

...third that. 

Many regular forumers use this forum to keep an eye on the market as well as post updates on developments. The first thread we turn to is the investment thread and this is now just a mish mash of random posts. 

Can the mods please explain why they are ruining the whole experience of this forum?


----------



## Sportscity

Giovanni news:

A friend visited site last week. Work in progress and site looked very active. Foreman expects completion 6months and handover a bit later with legal work etc. surrounding buildings mix of near completion, under construction and some skeletons so that will take time for locality to shape up a a proper residential area. Not sure when rental return and we need to clarify if the rental return stated on contract still holds??


----------



## UAE Investor

Pleth said:


> This SSC is just becoming a joke. Let's start another forum.


Yeah we did ...remember skyscraperlists ...


----------



## Pleth

UAE Investor said:


> Yeah we did ...remember skyscraperlists ...


Where can I find this?


----------



## hi_five

Emaar has requested for 15% installment payment due upon 80% project completion. Emaar also sent a communication stating project handover date will be in Nov 2014. Current selling price psf is approximately AED 1700-AED 2000. Expected rental price psf is approximately AED 100-120.

I hear some speculators have been unable to make timely payments. Hoping to find one distress deal for myself.


----------



## hi_five

*Confusing / Consolidated Threads*

Every view is important where it comes from an owner / resident / investor. Also this needs to be placed in the respective project thread. (Not justifying offensive and abusive content. This definitely needs to be excluded). 

SCC has been slowly and steadily deteriorating. 

1. Once the traffic in a particular thread builds up the moderator steps in for excessive censorship. 
2. Different property threads are being combined into one. 
3. Posts by owners / residents / investors are being restricted or deleted to generic discussions forcing them onto this thread “Your Personal Property Investments & the UAE Real Estate Market” where the headline keeps changing. 
4. Threads of handed over projects have literally gone dead. 

It’s about time that the SCC moderators explain on what’s going on.


----------



## hi_five

*Confusing / Consolidated Threads*

Every view is important where it comes from an owner / resident / investor. Also this needs to be placed in the respective project thread. (Not justifying offensive and abusive content. This definitely needs to be excluded). 

SCC has been slowly and steadily deteriorating. 

1.	Once the traffic in a particular thread builds up the moderator steps in for excessive censorship. 
2.	Different property threads are being combined into one. 
3.	Posts by owners / residents / investors are being restricted or deleted to generic discussions forcing them onto this thread “Your Personal Property Investments & the UAE Real Estate Market” where the headline keeps changing. 
4.	Threads of handed over projects have literally gone dead. 

It’s about time that the SCC moderators explain on what’s going on.


----------



## dubayyy

^^ Agreed...this is becoming ridiculous. Why are the mods not responding to these comments...?


----------



## UAE Investor

Pleth said:


> Where can I find this?


ask sale234 he was the admin ....we tried our best to make it work

We did a fantastic pictorial up date on a regular basis...but every one prefared the routine/comfort of hear so...

it was also exclusive so idiots that plaqued here for many years , mods did,nt. do anything...remember unknownpleasures ,who trolled and bated members from to 2009 onwards,thankfully moderator face banned him (2014 !)

After five years of admittedly very clever trolling and bitter fights on the forum with all the regulars there,(i,m talking about the Dsc threads)..face got rid,of the rubbish.

For this he did something no one else would do ..or could do?

Problem internally here is mods like sale and parisian G, did,nt. have the power ...because it would have to be a joint decision( how democratic!! )


This UAE forum is run on the UAE culture of dictatorship...not democracy.

Yet most contributor are from the west ....

:bash:


----------



## Rider

Have the mods ever held a poll to see how many members would be happy to have investment talk in the project threads or does this contradict the original mission of SSC?

If it's not allowed then can't see why personal investments can't become a sub-forum within 'Chat & Pics' with separate threads for each project within that sub-forum.


----------



## houshang

hi_five said:


> Every view is important where it comes from an owner / resident / investor. Also this needs to be placed in the respective project thread. (Not justifying offensive and abusive content. This definitely needs to be excluded).
> 
> SCC has been slowly and steadily deteriorating.
> 
> 1.	Once the traffic in a particular thread builds up the moderator steps in for excessive censorship.
> 2.	Different property threads are being combined into one.
> 3.	Posts by owners / residents / investors are being restricted or deleted to generic discussions forcing them onto this thread “Your Personal Property Investments & the UAE Real Estate Market” where the headline keeps changing.
> 4.	Threads of handed over projects have literally gone dead.
> 
> It’s about time that the SCC moderators explain on what’s going on.


You are absolutely right. More and more posters are getting fed up with the way threads are handled and are showing their dissatisfaction by their reluctance to contribute to these threads as much as they used to or they might even decide to stop posting altogether.


----------



## beer51

Hi 

During renewal of the tenancy contract if a tenant signs a disclosure to vacate the apartment at the end of the term. Notice period being 12 months on the condition of selling the property. Is this legally binding or does it have to be done through the public notary.

Any suggestions will be much appreciate.
cheers


----------



## AltinD

Abu Ahmad said:


> @ Newbie - completely agree that discussing all personal investments in this thread is very confusing and creating a lot of unnecessary traffic. Why cant we just have these discussions in the relevant project thread?
> .


Because the scope of this forum is not investments, but construction


----------



## True Blue

beer51 said:


> Hi
> 
> During renewal of the tenancy contract if a tenant signs a disclosure to vacate the apartment at the end of the term. Notice period being 12 months on the condition of selling the property. Is this legally binding or does it have to be done through the public notary.
> 
> Any suggestions will be much appreciate.
> cheers


This topic was covered very recently, however this thread has become so littered with junk about handovers and other crap about bad developers performance on personal property that the subject matter of real interest to everyone, is being lost.


----------



## beer51

Hi TB

Thnx for your reply. What is your opinion on this.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

People are telling me that the off plan market is currently much stronger than the secondary market which is currently very slow. In the secondary market only properties below 1.5m are getting any viewings. Seems like there is a lack of cash around for investment?


----------



## houshang

Dubai_Steve said:


> People are telling me that the off plan market is currently much stronger than the secondary market which is currently very slow. In the secondary market only properties below 1.5m are getting any viewings. Seems like there is a lack of cash around for investment?


This is exactly what is happening. The recent off plan projects by the likes of Emaar and Nakheel has sponged the cash off the market. In this situation investors naturally try to leverage their profit by investing in off plan projects with staged payments.
Could this also be a vote of confidence in future of Dubai property market.:dunno:


----------



## True Blue

houshang said:


> This is exactly what is happening. The recent off plan projects by the likes of Emaar and Nakheel has sponged the cash off the market. In this situation investors naturally try to leverage their profit by investing in off plan projects with staged payments.
> Could this also be a vote of confidence in future of Dubai property market.:dunno:


It sounds like a bit of a risky strategy. If there is no secondary market just now for completed units then how is committing to an Off Plan property considered sound investment? Investors should hoard their cash right now and time the market. Off Plans are even harder to sell in the secondary market as they are not tangible assets. It just shows the power of marketing. 

I looked on this forum at the Damac Akoya latest marketing images. They are shocking, depicting mature forests and lush meadows surrounding villas. The reality is that it is in the middle of the desert where the heat regularly exceeds 50C, but buyers are clearly gullible. 

The Dubai desert according to Damac; hno:











I have been getting sms texts on my mobile this week offering properties for sale in the marina. Seems to be indicating that the market has pulled up and they are now using every tactic available. Also if we compare rent listings in the marina they are now almost double what they were at the start of the year and yet the asking prices are still rising. Clearly a sign of trouble ahead for the greedy landlords.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Seems to me that many people still want in on the Dubai dream for the long term, given the many proposed projects and rosy looking future for Dubai but can not perhaps afford to part with AED 2m to 3m in cash now to buy something. So staged payments is the only way to go for them and mortgages and re-mortgages are difficult to come by.

People here were previously saying that the secondary market will pick up in September but I am not sure that will happen now. :dunno:


----------



## True Blue

beer51 said:


> Hi TB
> 
> Thnx for your reply. What is your opinion on this.


My opinion is that it doesn't matter how the notice is served. The key is to ensure that it complies with the law. In this respect you can only vacate an apartment if the landlord or his family intend to use it for themselves or it is to be demolished. Evictions just to hike the rent are illegal and can not be enforced no matter how the notice was served.

The market will sort itself out soon and the greedy landlords will ultimately pay the price. The laws of supply and demand are the only laws that should be worrying landlords right now. Most areas are entering a phase of oversupply. Hopefully this will provoke RERA to remove this stupid rent calculator and let landlords of prime units obtain fair rents and prevent the greedy landlords, with the shitty shoe boxes with no views, from exploiting the laws on rent increases.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> I am predicting we will not see rents increase again until around October 2014.


Do you still hold to your prediction?


----------



## True Blue

^^The asking prices have increased but I can't see it being sustainable unless the number of listings starts decreasing very soon. The listings have increased by <75% since January, that is simply unsustainable and indicates that the market is not functioning correctly.

The market is being adversely affected by the RERA rent controls. Landlords of small units are pushing up their prices and using the index to justify the hikes. Landlords of prime larger units are not allowed to put the rents up to the higher rates that they should be able to charge, therefore the tenant stays put and benefits at the landlord's expense. The RERA rent index is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Removing it would allow the market to return to fundamentals. There is no justification for enforcing it any longer when we see the lists of vacant properties around Dubai. That's why it was removed in Abu Dhabi once the supply problem was cured.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

What's the latest on the property VISA, has it been certified as true now and what are the conditions?

Could this help revive the currently quiet secondary market and soak up some of the supply?


----------



## Rider

Dubai_Steve said:


> What's the latest on the property VISA, has it been certified as true now and what are the conditions?
> 
> Could this help revive the currently quiet secondary market and soak up some of the supply?


Lots of unknowns e.g. does it include spouse or partner. I'm skeptical after they changed the rules last time. My Torch SPA actually talks about my right to a residence visa :lol: Good way to kick-start property sales but the big questions are whether or not they will stick to their word this time and what are the conditions.


----------



## FrankinDubai

Landlord in Dubai.

There's an article (with comments) in the Gulf news -here- about Landlords complaining that they cannot put rents up to market rate.

*Only option* 

Landlords need to serve a one year (court registered) vacating notice and sell- that is their only option.

They cannot rent the property out again for two years. 

If they do rent it out again, they are heavily fined.




*Looks like a good policy - pro tenants*

The article and comments are all very anti Landlords....greedy landlord this and greedy landlord that.



*There is another side to this story however*

I just wanted to say, when the market collapsed we dropped rents to a point that we barely covered service charges. That is really true.

Rents certainly did not cover mortgage repayments.

It was a nightmare.

*Am I wrong?*

I agree with a years notice to vacate a property- that is civil.

I do not agree with being unable to then rent for two years.

I simply do not understand as an investor what the case is for that? Please anyone?

*Furthermore*

Demographic shifting by rents going up, leads to new areas being populated, jobs, the opening of shops.

Keep it civilised (1 year notice is plenty) but why this two year rent ban?

*Robin hood*

Its a robin hood policy that kills development and exagerates fair investor risk.

Come on sheikh mo- you have to see this is not a greed driven thing...


----------



## FrankinDubai

True Blue that is hilarious!!! :lol:





True Blue said:


> I looked on this forum at the Damac Akoya latest marketing images. They are shocking, depicting mature forests and lush meadows surrounding villas. The reality is that it is in the middle of the desert where the heat regularly exceeds 50C, but buyers are clearly gullible.
> 
> The Dubai desert according to Damac; hno:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been getting sms texts on my mobile this week offering properties for sale in the marina. .


----------



## dubaiprojects

I have been offered 3 bed villa (2,662 sqft for 2.6m) in Danube Dreamz project.
What is your opinion about this project. I am skeptical about the deliver date end of 2016.
cheers


----------



## True Blue

^^You have been offered a piece of paper for 2.6M. Have we learned nothing from the last crash?

Investors need to stop encouraging off plan development as they are making trouble for themselves and the market. Dubai is STILL full of false marketing, see above!!


----------



## True Blue

Traffic snarls continue in Jumeirah Beach Residences with RTA work

Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/uae/trans...-beach-residences-with-rta-work#ixzz3B1IYSfOK 
Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook


This push to complete the tram on time could be the trigger that could crash the rent market in the Marina Island district as it is scheduled to last at least a month. Won't be able to rent out your apartment in JBR if no one can get near it for a viewing. I expect agents will be informing tenants to forget it for the time being.

Residents reported on Facebook last night that they had to give up and abandon their cars in the Marina Mall and travel home on foot. It was still gridlocked into the night.


----------



## Impy

*PROPERTY INVESTOR VISAS FEES LOWERED*

UAE slashes cost of property investor visa by 45%

The six-month visa will now cost Dh1,100


By Parag Deulgaonkar


Published Monday, August 25, 2014 



The UAE has slashed the cost of getting a property visa by 45 per cent, a move that could see more foreign property owners spending time in the country.

The six-month visa, which was Dh2,000 prior to August 1, will now cost Dh1,100.

The conditions continue to remain the same and include property valuation to be above Dh1 million, the owner requiring an income of Dh10,000 per month, the property has to be ready, etc.


----------



## chefdude

^^

If the owner lives abroad they won't have a UAE job or salary so how can they stipulate an unprovable income of AED 10,000 per month as a condition for the Visa ??? :nuts:


----------



## Abu Ahmad

Can they not use rental income from other properties and / or income from pensions / other investments to show this income?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

So its still a 6 month VISA with no option for a permanent stay/retirement with a renewable 12 month property owner VISA as originally promised many years ago?


----------



## bister

Yup, they really don't want you there. They want your money, work and no trouble while there. You want to settle down with a 6-12 month horizon?


----------



## dubaiprojects

The fee of 1,100 is to be paid every 6 months? If investor has a family, the same amount will be charged for each member?

How can one use this visa to live in dubai along with his family (kids, school, etc)? if they all have to exit after every 6 months out of uae?


----------



## Pleth

bister said:


> Yup, they really don't want you there. They want your money, work and no trouble while there. You want to settle down with a 6-12 month horizon?


I don't know if they don't want you there?
I feel more welcomed in UAE than I think Muslims would in Europe. And the Muslims in Europe have to pay half their money in tax. We don't.
I suppose they just want to earn 2,200 Aed per year per person living here.

I think it will be easy to renew the visa every 6 months without leaving the UAE.


----------



## Hamad-

Pleth said:


> I don't know if they don't want you there?
> I feel more welcomed in UAE than I think Muslims would in Europe. And the Muslims in Europe have to pay half their money in tax. We don't.
> I suppose they just want to earn 2,200 Aed per year per person living here.
> 
> I think it will be easy to renew the visa every 6 months without leaving the UAE.


We want you to feel home


----------



## ianthy

Pleth said:


> I don't know if they don't want you there?
> I feel more welcomed in UAE than I think Muslims would in Europe. And the Muslims in Europe have to pay half their money in tax. We don't.
> I suppose they just want to earn 2,200 Aed per year per person living here.
> 
> I think it will be easy to renew the visa every 6 months without leaving the UAE.


£366 is the visa cost for the family to stay in Dubai. It seems reasonable compared to visit visa for some locations around the world. Also beats all those silly trips across the border to renew visas.


----------



## Pleth

Hamad- said:


> We want you to feel home


 Thanks.

I don't think anybody from the Middle East can just move to USA, UK or anywhere in EU. You can go on holiday yes, but you are not welcome to stay longer or to work there.

Only in UAE.


----------



## Face81

Pleth said:


> Thanks. I don't think anybody from the Middle East can just move to USA, UK or anywhere in EU. You can go on holiday yes, but you are not welcome to stay longer or to work there. Only in UAE.


Incorrect. With the right visa you're allowed to work (and change jobs freely), become a permanent resident and eventually a citizen. 

This 6-month visa business will have to be looked at carefully if it's really meant to boost the UAEs investment appeal.


----------



## Pleth

Face81 said:


> Incorrect. With the right visa you're allowed to work (and change jobs freely), become a permanent resident and eventually a citizen.


In Europe and US?


----------



## HPDubai

The 6 month Visa for property owners is a visit visa only. It is not a residency visa. Therefore it does not give you any of of rights the residents have: no PO box, no car ownership, no credit card. For living in Dubai not very useful.. Please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## Josau

You're right. You still just can rent a car and you only get a debit card. Still, you can live part time here.


----------



## FrankinDubai

It is a bit strange to start calling the market in August- but a general consensus seems to be forming that price rises have stopped.

If this is part of the cycle (am not sure that it is), do prices now start to go down for a year or two?


How do off plan developments fair if they were sold over market price, and they are still over market price at completion? will people walk away again??


----------



## Pleth

HPDubai said:


> The 6 month Visa for property owners is a visit visa only. It is not a residency visa. Therefore it does not give you any of of rights the residents have: no PO box, no car ownership, no credit card. For living in Dubai not very useful.. Please correct me if I am wrong.


You can get a debit card.
PO Box you can get sometimes via your building or other service providers. 
Car ownership?? I hope you will be able to buy a car? We need to check this.

And you won't need to pay tax of your income.


----------



## UAE Investor

FrankinDubai said:


> It is a bit strange to start calling the market in August- but a general consensus seems to be forming that price rises have stopped.
> 
> If this is part of the cycle (am not sure that it is), do prices now start to go down for a year or two?
> 
> 
> How do off plan developments fair if they were sold over market price, and they are still over market price at completion? will people walk away again??


It's what's known as the " cliff effect"......


----------



## idontdream

If the market is operated freely ( without government controls ) it is always influenced by market forces. Its a very simple business & economics rule. Hype and speculation only last temporarily and in the end the only equation is supply & demand.

Set the market free I say.


----------



## French investor

Dear All, We get our apartment from triplanet so all is great.


----------



## UAE Investor

French investor said:


> Dear All, We are Swiss people who bought in 2010 16 units with Triplanet in Elite 3. Nobody never send us any email from this company to tell us construction is going on or anything else. After a sometime, one of us knows that Elite 3 is finish and when we ask to Triplanet, they told us that all our units were cancelled ! We went through important people in UAE who help us and triplanet pay back plus extra money. If you need help, please let me know and I will put you in touch with this people to help you. Send me an email to [email protected]Leynaa


 Posted this B/S on DSC threads as well....hno:


----------



## houshang

smussuw said:


> ^^ The prices are derived by marketing hype, speculation and monopoly, which is far supply and demand equation.


This could be true in short term but supply and demand mechanism will prevail long term.


----------



## dubaiprojects

*hi*



houshang said:


> This could be true in short term but supply and demand mechanism will prevail long term.


I think he meant in the UAE which has been true so far I guess.
cheers


----------



## FrankinDubai

I can't work out next moves in relation to Dubai real estate for us. This is from a pure investment point of view*. Rental yields are now low (villas at 3 to 4 percent net), similar to a lot of (less risky) European cities.


I mean, is there any reason to hold for growth over the next two years? is anything going to change that will trigger further price appreciation? 


You see, I don't think rents in residential can go up much further?, and I don't think yields can come down any more then they have... The two things that could trigger price appreciation will not happen.

So what, folks, are we holding for at this point (beyond leisurely pursuits that is)?




_* I have hard earned money invested in this market, and I would like to look after it as best I can for the future of my family- don't hate on me please  (this is not about whether I love Dubai or not)_


----------



## TROGERS

Hi

I'm new to the Forum.

Have any investors here been caught up in the KM Properties Gross Area v Net Area fiasco?

Happy to communicate via PM if needs be.

Thanks


----------



## houshang

FrankinDubai said:


> I can't work out next moves in relation to Dubai real estate for us. This is from a pure investment point of view*. Rental yields are now low (villas at 3 to 4 percent net), similar to a lot of (less risky) European cities.
> 
> 
> I mean, is there any reason to hold for growth over the next two years? is anything going to change that will trigger further price appreciation?
> 
> 
> You see, I don't think rents in residential can go up much further?, and I don't think yields can come down any more then they have... The two things that could trigger price appreciation will not happen.
> 
> So what, folks, are we holding for at this point (beyond leisurely pursuits that is)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _* I have hard earned money invested in this market, and I would like to look after it as best I can for the future of my family- don't hate on me please  (this is not about whether I love Dubai or not)_


You make investment decisions to suit your circumstances.Dubai has seen higher rents and higher prices before. I believe excess liquidity and geopolitical factors in the region will keep the momentum going for Dubai property market.
Yields of 3-4 percent net is not that bad when in Euro zone you have to pay the banks to keep your money( negative interest rates).
Safety of an investment in long term is of great importance. Places like Dubai always carry certain amount of risk and one has to be vigilant and that is why investment diversification is so important.
Invest wisely and never put all your eggs in one basket!


----------



## FrankinDubai

houshang said:


> You make investment decisions to suit your circumstances.Dubai has seen higher rents and higher prices before. I believe excess liquidity and geopolitical factors in the region will keep the momentum going for Dubai property market.
> Yields of 3-4 percent net is not that bad when in Euro zone you have to pay the banks to keep your money( negative interest rates).
> Safety of an investment in long term is of great importance. Places like Dubai always carry certain amount of risk and one has to be vigilant and that is why investment diversification is so important.
> Invest wisely and never put all your eggs in one basket!


As an example, when expats inherit a million dollars (with a duty to invest the cash for family's financial security), Dubai spends a lot of dosh trying to convince us to 'invest' it into its real estate market.


I am asking what the investment case is- many seem to think this is a question based on greed.


(Houshang : I see you are saying rents and prices may continue to increase, but I believe affordability has put a stop on things)


----------



## FrankinDubai

smussuw said:


> You can whine all day but having an index is still better than having nothing.


Imagine if you invested in a company that said if we get more profitable your dividend cannot be increased.

Imagine if you were forced to sell or go dividend free for two years to correct to the current dividend.

Imagine the company also said your dividends will go down immediately, if our profit goes down.


I get this is housing and is more sensitive, but why not just do a one years notice period, isn't that more then generous?

I dont see it as greedy for me to say "hey, here is a one year notice -rents have gone up dramatically and I'd like to adjust"


----------



## Green Hornet

I don't remember Dubai doing anything to make sure rents didn't fall so low as to make it barely worthwhile landlords having property.However when its the other way they protect the tenants and make sure rents don't rise too much by having a rental index.

Hypocrisy.


----------



## FrankinDubai

*Property is different.*

Your tenants are human beings and deserve respect.

I accept that a 12 month advance notice to a tenant to vacate is a fair system. It allows plenty of time for renegotiation or planning a move to another property.

12 months advance notice also means the market cannot spike all at once- which stops the shocks to rental rates Dubai wants to avoid.


*Dubai is pitching for investment not donations*

But how can anyone ask me to invest a million USD into this market,tell me I own property, have property rights etc and then tell me this is severely restricted.

I cannot take my property back unless I do not own other property (what??) 
I have to explain why I want it back (what???), 
I can vacate it but only if I sell it (its not your business after a 12 month notice!!), 
I have to move in in order to vacate it after a TWELVE month notice period??? are you joking???
I must not re rent it for 2 years after a 12 month notice- that is a *three year liquidity issue* for me!!

(I have other questions like: Can i freeze the 30% hike I received in service charges this year? this really happened.)


*The problem*

It is not sounding much like my property anymore- and that worries me. Perhaps I want to vacate it and throw tea parties in it every second Friday, maybe I am eccentric! It should be my right to do so. 

Nor is it sounding much like an investment case anymore. 4-5% net yields and no liquidity, not compelling with turmoil and all the other risk factors that are a reality of the region Dubai is in.

Investors sitting on cash face a lot of noise for their money from London to Shanghai- it is not just Dubai chasing their investment funds.

*12 months notice*

Unconditional 12 months notice seems civilised and more then fair but PLEASE don't tell me what to do with my property, or kindly let me know in advance of me giving you my HARD EARNED one million USD, that in reality, the property is not mine.


----------



## AITU

FrankinDubai said:


> *Property is different.*
> 
> Your tenants are human beings and deserve respect.
> 
> I accept that a 12 month advance notice to a tenant to vacate is a fair system. It allows plenty of time for renegotiation or planning a move to another property.
> 
> 12 months advance notice also means the market cannot spike all at once- which stops the shocks to rental rates Dubai wants to avoid.
> 
> 
> *Dubai is pitching for investment not donations*
> 
> But how can anyone ask me to invest a million USD into this market,tell me I own property, have property rights etc and then tell me this is severely restricted.
> 
> I cannot take my property back unless I do not own other property (what??)
> I have to explain why I want it back (what???),
> I can vacate it but only if I sell it (its not your business after a 12 month notice!!),
> I have to move in in order to vacate it after a TWELVE month notice period??? are you joking???
> I must not re rent it for 2 years after a 12 month notice- that is a *three year liquidity issue* for me!!
> 
> (I have other questions like: Can i freeze the 30% hike I received in service charges this year? this really happened.)
> 
> 
> *The problem*
> 
> It is not sounding much like my property anymore- and that worries me. Perhaps I want to vacate it and throw tea parties in it every second Friday, maybe I am eccentric! It should be my right to do so.
> 
> Nor is it sounding much like an investment case anymore. 4-5% net yields and no liquidity, not compelling with turmoil and all the other risk factors that are a reality of the region Dubai is in.
> 
> Investors sitting on cash face a lot of noise for their money from London to Shanghai- it is not just Dubai chasing their investment funds.
> 
> *12 months notice*
> 
> Unconditional 12 months notice seems civilised and more then fair but PLEASE don't tell me what to do with my property, or kindly let me know in advance of me giving you my HARD EARNED one million USD, that in reality, the property is not mine.



^^^^:applause:


----------



## smussuw

Green Hornet said:


> I don't remember Dubai doing anything to make sure rents didn't fall so low as to make it barely worthwhile landlords having property.However when its the other way they protect the tenants and make sure rents don't rise too much by having a rental index.
> 
> Hypocrisy.


Thats bullshit.


----------



## Pleth

Green Hornet said:


> I don't remember Dubai doing anything to make sure rents didn't fall so low as to make it barely worthwhile landlords having property.However when its the other way they protect the tenants and make sure rents don't rise too much by having a rental index.
> 
> Hypocrisy.


Yes they did. The 4% tax on property purchases have made it more expensive to buy property. The less people that buy property the more people are looking to rent.


----------



## FrankinDubai

smussuw said:


> Thats bullshit.


There are investors who backed 'the vision' smussuw its not fair to create a three year dead zone where they cannot rectify their losses.


Calling landlords greedy is totally missing the point. They were backing Dubai's sales pitch.


----------



## FrankinDubai

Some investors who bought in 2007-2008 will be getting less then 2 per cent on the money they invested some 6 years later!

Its not asking for much to correct that as the market corrects surely you can see that?- 

It will still not put them in a position to ever call their 6 year old punt a good investment. 

Maybe it will bump them up to a 5 or 6 percent return (on money they invested 6 years ago)

That is not being greedy, servicing debt in general costs 7%, service charges are a free for all. 

I need liquidity on my investments at these sorts of levels of return. I think that is fair.


----------



## dubaiprojects

*studio*

Are studios better options as investments in marina to buy for rentals?
do they rented out easily in all times?

Any one has experience of renting our studio in silverene?

cheers


----------



## Jet7

Silverene is one of the most prestigious tower in Dubai marina, a little bit pricy but definitely worth it. Not sure how much ROI you can get out of a studio and how quick to let it out but for sure a 1br will be rented out quickly!

Good luck.


----------



## dubaiprojects

Jet7 said:


> Silverene is one of the most prestigious tower in Dubai marina, a little bit pricy but definitely worth it. Not sure how much ROI you can get out of a studio and how quick to let it out but for sure a 1br will be rented out quickly!
> 
> Good luck.


With my budget i can only buy a studio,hence the question. There are few 1 bed the size of studio with some 50K extra on the price, but these 1 bed have no balconies and the room is smaller to call it one bed. 
I just wanted to know with people experiences how easy or hard it is to rent out a studio in marina. I have this thought that in all times, esp in crises, studios should always be easier to rent out.

Cheers


----------



## Pleth

Green Hornet said:


> Total nonsense.
> 
> That will have very little effect on keeping rents up.
> 
> Talk about clutching at straws.


And that is just your opinion!
I know several people who opted out from buying because of the high tax, and rented instead.
On the radio they said the rents in Dubai are the same as in New York. And yet you are complaining?? Greedy landlord. 
Even in New York the landlords have a lot of council taxes to pay, but in Dubai I guess you just pocket 100%. And yet you complain about Dubai. 
Why didn't you invest elsewhere? Like in Germany for instance??

( http://www.thenational.ae/uae/a-home-in-dubai-costs-the-same-as-new-york )


----------



## dubaiprojects

*rents issue*

The main issue is that if you buy property on the resale, most likely the unit is already rented out and you have no options to ask the tenant to leave your property , so that you can rent it out at the market price.
For example a 1 bed may already been rented at say 80k during the time you purchased the unit. Now you can only ask a 5% increase upon renewal, yet the market rate for the same unit could be 95k above.

Asking the tenant to leave your property is tough, if he does not want to exit. You have to give him one year notice and then you have to provide a valid reason; either you will want it for your own living (in that case I heard you wont be able to rent it out for next 3 years) or you want to sell it (in that case you need to show proof). So its more tilted towards the tenants.

However, its not that bad at all. You can not ask your tenant to leave every year, at the same pace dubai real estate is growing. When I check the rent and price back in Dec 2013 and when I compare them now, i see at least 35-40% increase as average. However I could not ask my tenants to increase at the same rate. 

But having said that, i am absolutely fine with this and not being greedy, I have a very good relation with my tenants and am quite satisfied to have the 5% increase and ensuring my properties are in good hands.

Cheers







Pleth said:


> And that is just your opinion!
> I know several people who opted out from buying because of the high tax, and rented instead.
> On the radio they said the rents inubai are the same as in New York. And yet you are complaining?? Greedy landlord.
> Even in New York the landlords have a lot of council taxes to pay, but in Dubai I guess you just pocket 100%. And yet you complain about Dubai.
> Why didn't you invest elsewhere? Like in Germany for instance??
> 
> ( http://www.thenational.ae/uae/a-home-in-dubai-costs-the-same-as-new-york )


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

Rider said:


> I imagine this is for full property management services. It's easy for me to update the contract myself each year and it makes no sense to pay 6-8% for depositing two cheques per year.
> 
> Will UAE banks accept post dated cheques and hold them until it's time for them to be deposited?


Yes they do against a nominal fee.


----------



## Green Hornet

Pleth said:


> And that is just your opinion!
> I know several people who opted out from buying because of the high tax, and rented instead.
> On the radio they said the rents in Dubai are the same as in New York. And yet you are complaining?? Greedy landlord.
> Even in New York the landlords have a lot of council taxes to pay, but in Dubai I guess you just pocket 100%. And yet you complain about Dubai.
> Why didn't you invest elsewhere? Like in Germany for instance??
> 
> ( http://www.thenational.ae/uae/a-home-in-dubai-costs-the-same-as-new-york )


Sounds to me like a disgruntled renter.

100%?I pay UK tax thanks plus maintenance charges plus property management charges plus repair charges.

Less buyers and more renters does not mean higher rent.Thats just plain stupid and you have no proof it makes any difference.
The Dubai goverment did not introduce that 4% to stop buyers,to create more renters and to keep rents higher.Anything they do thats causes higher rents is not done on purpose yet they are always keen to try and lower rents.

Fact.


----------



## Green Hornet

dubaiprojects said:


> No need to use property management companies and pay them extra.
> Just give an ad and rent out your property via rera approved real estate broker company (i can name a few I used, pm for that ). They would find tenants and charge 5% and you don't have to pay anything. They will make all the paper work. They can also courier you cheques which you can submit at your local bank or you can open an acct in dubai. Next year, you can contact the same person and pay 500 aed to renew the contract and paperwork and send you the cheques
> 
> However when a tenant vacate your apartment, you need some one on the ground to check for snags and repair them on your behalf. You should know some one in dubai for such type of work or you need to visit dubai yourself.
> 
> 
> Cheers


A property management company will also check on your property every 3 months and deal with issues and repairs.They find you tenants,deal with contracts,snagging,arranging for a unit to be painted inbetween tenants etc.

Yes no doubt you can do it all yourself and save some money if you can be bothered with the hassle and it is hassle.


----------



## Green Hornet

dubaiprojects said:


> The main issue is that if you buy property on the resale, most likely the unit is already rented out and you have no options to ask the tenant to leave your property , so that you can rent it out at the market price.
> For example a 1 bed may already been rented at say 80k during the time you purchased the unit. Now you can only ask a 5% increase upon renewal, yet the market rate for the same unit could be 95k above.
> 
> Asking the tenant to leave your property is tough, if he does not want to exit. You have to give him one year notice and then you have to provide a valid reason; either you will want it for your own living (in that case I heard you wont be able to rent it out for next 3 years) or you want to sell it (in that case you need to show proof). So its more tilted towards the tenants.
> 
> However, its not that bad at all. You can not ask your tenant to leave every year, at the same pace dubai real estate is growing. When I check the rent and price back in Dec 2013 and when I compare them now, i see at least 35-40% increase as average. However I could not ask my tenants to increase at the same rate.
> 
> But having said that, i am absolutely fine with this and not being greedy, I have a very good relation with my tenants and am quite satisfied to have the 5% increase and ensuring my properties are in good hands.
> 
> Cheers


Wait a minute,your tenants do not give a damn about you and the fact you are renting to them at way below the average price so why should you give a damn about them?

Do you think they are all smiling and nice to you because they like you or because they don't want you to kick them out?

Its 2 years to wait before you can sell by the way.


----------



## FrankinDubai

Green Hornet said:


> Wait a minute,your tenants do not give a damn about you and the fact you are renting to them at way below the average price so why should you give a damn about them?
> 
> Do you think they are all smiling and nice to you because they like you or because they don't want you to kick them out?
> 
> Its 2 years to wait before you can sell by the way.


I think there are so many levels of arguments going on here its impossible to focus on this as investment chat at any real level. 

We have people saying they are ok at the prospect of illiquidity of as much as 3 years on an investment, others saying it is greed driven to seek market rate rents, others genuinely not understanding the roll investors play in this market and their importance, and still others arguing that changes that alter the environment we invested in are insignificant.


An unconditional 12 months notice to a tenant after their first year would suffice (no reasons needed, no hoops to jump through). 

We are not here to provide social housing and this allows a gradual process of flux in the property market(a good thing to get new communities going).


----------



## FrankinDubai

Dubai is a success story, you can see how Emiratis think foreigners naive at the high values properties go to (in both rent and sales) in Dubai. 

Dubai has managed to deliver itself as a product in our minds that is premium - very clever marketing considering the environment, the location and the relative lack of historical pedigree. Good for Dubai. Ten out of ten.

Some are saying this demand is based on marketing and clever monopolies, I dont know if that is the case but one thing for sure is that Dubai is pushing for growth hard, and that is supporting us as investors. Great great great. Thank you Dubai.

I am happy to invest here beyond the illiquidity issue and this child like social housing policy demanding personal BS excuses and 3 year waits to get liquid. Its relatively easy being a landlord, it is fun to be part of this growth and it is exciting to watch the city boom.

Dubai normally reacts when things get out of whack, it is not afraid to u-turn on laws that don't work or change legislation to encourage investment. Perhaps the market lull will sort that.


----------



## chefdude

I have been doing the same thing for the past 7 years mostly UK clients but several other nationalities also.

Full year management 4.5% on 1 property and 4% if you have more than one.

English ethics and English mentality and straight talking.

Having a property here un managed is great until something goes wrong then it becomes a costly endeavour to put it right both financially and also in your time.

Private management of UAE properties


I have a few clients whose properties I manage privately for as long as real estate exists in the UAE.

I collaborate with reputable registered agents who secure tenants where they do all the legal work as they levy a commission however the agreement between the owner and myself is amicable.

You can inbox me and I will advise you. I handle the payments, ensuring the original contracts are couriered to the owner and return the tenants original. I ensure the correct cheques are issued again inbox me.

I have sterling references of trust.

Thanks


----------



## dubaiprojects

Green Hornet said:


> A property management company will also check on your property every 3 months and deal with issues and repairs.
> 
> I have had no issues in that area and it all depends on how you deal with your tenants. Personally I find it waste of money for such services.
> 
> I have dealt with cases where my tenants wanted to paint a wall in the dining room or alter some other designs. I am always in close contact with the building management and my tenant as well. In some cases, when the management allowed such alterations and I also saw no issues, I have allowed it and in other cases I have declined.
> 
> Again having a property and renting out is just 25% of the management of your property, the rest is how you manage your tenants and yes there will be bad tenants and you need to deal with this and thats where the skills come in.
> It is like vendor management and this is an art and not a science. I do visit dubai once 6 months and I also meet with my tenants and so far I have been lucky.
> 
> You have your own view and experience and so are mine. Maybe what you are saying is true from where you stand or experienced them and I respect your view but what I am saying is based on my experience of renting out my properties since 2004.
> 
> Cheers


----------



## dubaiprojects

Green Hornet said:


> Wait a minute,your tenants do not give a damn about you and the fact you are renting to them at way below the average price so why should you give a damn about them?
> 
> Do you think they are all smiling and nice to you because they like you or because they don't want you to kick them out?
> 
> Its 2 years to wait before you can sell by the way.


I must have not been able to express my thoughts clearly. What i wanted to say was that the dubai real estate market is not following a linear stability. As I mentioned that I witnessed at least 35% increase in the buy and rent of properties in dubai in past one year (this is based on the marina and JLT properties as I do not invest in other than these 2 safe places). However one can not ask their tenants to raise 35% in just one year.
Yes the 5% increase by govt may be too little. I feel that in many countries laws usually support in favor of tenants and maybe am wrong, but so far am ok with what govt is doing in dubai, atleast am able to increase 5% and then its all tax free rent. From where I stand, am quite happy with the current status.

cheers


----------



## dubaiprojects

chefdude said:


> I have been doing the same thing for the past 7 years mostly UK clients but several other nationalities also.
> 
> Full year management 4.5% on 1 property and 4% if you have more than one.
> 
> English ethics and English mentality and straight talking.
> 
> Having a property here un managed is great until something goes wrong then it becomes a costly endeavour to put it right both financially and also in your time.
> 
> Private management of UAE properties
> 
> 
> I have a few clients whose properties I manage privately for as long as real estate exists in the UAE.
> 
> I collaborate with reputable registered agents who secure tenants where they do all the legal work as they levy a commission however the agreement between the owner and myself is amicable.
> 
> You can inbox me and I will advise you. I handle the payments, ensuring the original contracts are couriered to the owner and return the tenants original. I ensure the correct cheques are issued again inbox me.
> 
> I have sterling references of trust.
> 
> Thanks


4.5% is quite expensive. Please no offence but I would like to know the legality of your business. In any dispute, do you have the legal rights and license from govt to act on landlord's behalf and fight cases in courts?

4.5 % to create the contract and visit properties twice a year is way expensive. Apart from the visit, one can manager everything via email and phone calls with their tenants and in a better way. Unless one has not experience of such communications , perhaps your services would be better for them.


----------



## Pleth

Green Hornet said:


> Sounds to me like a disgruntled renter.
> 
> 100%?I pay UK tax thanks plus maintenance charges plus property management charges plus repair charges.
> 
> Less buyers and more renters does not mean higher rent.Thats just plain stupid and you have no proof it makes any difference.
> The Dubai goverment did not introduce that 4% to stop buyers,to create more renters and to keep rents higher.Anything they do thats causes higher rents is not done on purpose yet they are always keen to try and lower rents.
> 
> Fact.


Great, you have never heard of supply and demand.
If Dubai still wants to attract investors/businesses/industry in the future they need to keep the costs of living down, this will benefit us all in the long run. You are only looking short term at your own little world. 

Just have a look at post 34563 by UAE Investor. How will Dubai attract the volume of people it needs to in the future with too high living costs? 

And you should know better - investing in New York (or anywhere in the world) you would also have to pay UK tax, maintenance charges plus property management charges plus repair charges. But on top of that you would pay property taxes and council taxes which you don't in Dubai. 
Yet the rents in Dubai are the same as in New York. 
And you want the rents to go up???

Why didn't you invest elsewhere? Like in Germany for instance??

(No I am not renting).


----------



## Green Hornet

Dubai does not struggle to get in the workers it needs.Most of the ones they need are very low paid and already cannot afford their own villas/appartments.They are here now and somehow managing to live.

In the case of construction workers we all know how they live.If Dubai wants workers they will get them.
Yes the lower the rents the more people you attract however the less investors you attract and as we all know Dubai has been built with investors money.
There are still so many projects being built and in the planning stage however the lower the rents the fewer the investors.

New York,London and other cities have high rents but they are filled with people.
Many of those as you know will either live in the cheaper areas or will live away in a suburb of those cities.

Dubai wages are tax free so citizens have more more to use on rents.
You don't have this in London or New York.

The markets should dictate prices not the goverment.They did nothing to protect investors from the sharks out there and now they are further screwing the investors with their ridiculous rent caps.

Personally,given Dubai history of ripped off investors and rent caps I would advise people not to invest there.
Also because prices are too up and down and with the boom came the crash,then another boom rather
than a gradual increase like everywhere else and now Dubai is vulnerable to another crash because of it.

I just hope next time theres an economic crash around the world and people flee Dubai again therefore
crashing rents again,I hope the goverment will protect landlords so that our rents give us some profit
and not just about cover mortgage payments,management and maintenance fees etc.
Somehow I doubt they will be the least bit interested.

Germany again? I think there's a joke in there somewhere.


----------



## Green Hornet

dubaiprojects said:


> As I mentioned that I witnessed at least 35% increase in the buy and rent of properties in dubai in past one year (this is based on the marina and JLT properties as I do not invest in other than these 2 safe places). However one can not ask their tenants to raise 35% in just one year.


Renters have an option.Move to cheaper areas.If you at the marina then move to Silicon Oasis.Simple.If I got a job in New York but couldn't afford to live in the centre I would get a place in Brooklyn or somewhere like that.

I would guess that workers in New York and London take more from their wages for rent than workers in Dubai especially considering wages are rent free.


----------



## Green Hornet

---


----------



## Green Hornet

dubaiprojects said:


> I have had no issues in that area and it all depends on how you deal with your tenants. Personally I find it waste of money for such services.



I'm not saying using a property management company is the only way to go.Personally I find it easier because I am thousands of miles away.
Maybe I will look at it.Work out how much I am spending and see if it's worth doing it myself.

Yes I agree they don't do an awful lot and if I could be bothered I would sort things out myself.


As for stating 4.5% fees are expensive.Really? I pay 6% and paid 8% a few years ago.
What is the average in Dubai?


----------



## Green Hornet

FrankinDubai said:


> An unconditional 12 months notice to a tenant after their first year would suffice (no reasons needed, no hoops to jump through).


12 months is a very long time and I believe most other cities are probably around 6 months.Personally I believe 3 months gives tenants plenty of time to find somewhere else to live.

Landlords in Dubai like in most other places are treated as lowlife with tenants always portrayed as victims so they are always protected.
Spend a day talking to landlords in the UK as an example and they will have plenty of horror stories to tell you regards tenants.


----------



## dubaiprojects

Green Hornet said:


> Renters have an option.Move to cheaper areas.If you at the marina then move to Silicon Oasis.Simple.If I got a job in New York but couldn't afford to live in the centre I would get a place in Brooklyn or somewhere like that.
> 
> I would guess that workers in New York and London take more from their wages for rent than workers in Dubai especially considering wages are rent free.


Yes that is an option. My brother moved to SO and is paying 85k for a 2bed.
However for investment purpose, I decided to stay in marina and the tenants also come in different categories depending on the rents, area and other facilities.


----------



## dubaiprojects

Green Hornet said:


> I'm not saying using a property management company is the only way to go.Personally I find it easier because I am thousands of miles away.
> Maybe I will look at it.Work out how much I am spending and see if it's worth doing it myself.
> 
> Yes I agree they don't do an awful lot and if I could be bothered I would sort things out myself.
> 
> 
> As for stating 4.5% fees are expensive.Really? I pay 6% and paid 8% a few years ago.
> What is the average in Dubai?


That is too much buddy. I can refer you to some one if you like who is well respected among ssc members, and can manage for you at lesser rate.

Cheers

Edited with new info.
Yet again, I question the need. You are far, does not matter, you can handle all management with emails and when time comes to 
renew, just pay like 500 to an agent to get the contract renewed and send you the cheques.
For any other stiff, you can hire some one to clean your apartment and perform maintenance tasks if required before renting out again,
why pay 6% from the rent yearly?


----------



## True Blue

JLT INVESTOR said:


> Can I send an eviction notice privately due to non payment of rent or it has to be through a lawyer in Dubai. Do I need to be present in Dubai or someone else can send it on my behalf. Thanks for your replies.





True Blue said:


> Best done though a notary public. If the tenant bounced or stopped the rent cheque then file a police report. No more Mr nice guy.


I should also add that tenants who are not paying their rent are almost certainly not paying their other bills. 

I had to clear the DEWA arrears of a previous tenant before DEWA would allow the new tenant to register their account. Therefore I would suggest contacting DEWA with the premises number from the badge above the door and inform them that if this account is in arrears to disconnect the supply immediately as the tenant/occupier is in rent arrears and you will not be held responsible for the occupiers unpaid DEWA arrears. That might do the trick to get them out faster.


----------



## Rider

^^ Good tip. 

Could also be worth doing the same with du or whichever ISP they are using.


----------



## beer51

Here is the prove, let the market dictate the rent NOT RERA:

Pace of 'arbitrary' rent-rises in Abu Dhabi slows down
Rents just rose just 2% in Q3; H1 saw rents jumping 12 per cent overall: CBRE
By

Parag Deulgaonkar

Published Monday, October 13, 2014

The number of arbitrary rent increases by landlords, post removal of the rent cap in Abu Dhabi in November 2013, seems to have declined as the pace of rental increase in the emirate has slowed down.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...s-in-abu-dhabi-slows-down-2014-10-13-1.566091


----------



## smussuw

^^ of course it would decline when they raised it by 200% they cannot do that anymore.


----------



## Impy

*LANDLORD INSURANCE*

Does anyone know of an insurance company in Dubai who would offer Landlord Insurance for a reasonable price ? Many thanks


----------



## dubaiprojects

Impy said:


> Does anyone know of an insurance company in Dubai who would offer Landlord Insurance for a reasonable price ? Many thanks


I thought all buildings are already insured?


----------



## ianthy

dubaiprojects said:


> I thought all buildings are already insured?


I think you will find that the building is insured but this does not mean all of your apt. In our case we found that the building insurance means that the apt would be returned to a concrete shell and then require complete fitting out. We took out insurance - better safe than sorry. If you are in the UK you might consider INTASURE.


----------



## dubaiprojects

ianthy said:


> I think you will find that the building is insured but this does not mean all of your apt. In our case we found that the building insurance means that the apt would be returned to a concrete shell and then require complete fitting out. We took out insurance - better safe than sorry. If you are in the UK you might consider INTASURE.


Any idea about the cost then for such an insurance for an apartment in the marina area?


----------



## chefdude

Try RSA gulf they will do property and or contents

www.rsagroup.ae


----------



## ianthy

dubaiprojects said:


> Any idea about the cost then for such an insurance for an apartment in the marina area?


I pay £350 UK sterling with INTASURE for a 3+1 bed apt on the Marina including building, contents and public liability just in case there is an issue with a tenant. Of course you may get cheaper in Dubai but I want to know that the insurance will actually be good if I need to submit a claim. Nothing is guaranteed but I know a number of others that are with INTASURE and they settle claims quickly and fairly.


----------



## Viv

ianthy said:


> I pay £350 UK sterling with INTASURE for a 3+1 bed apt on the Marina including building, contents and public liability just in case there is an issue with a tenant. Of course you may get cheaper in Dubai but I want to know that the insurance will actually be good if I need to submit a claim. Nothing is guaranteed but I know a number of others that are with INTASURE and they settle claims quickly and fairly.


Hi,

I'm in the UK and also use INTASURE (but never claimed) - I pay approx 180.00 UK sterling for a 2 bed + maids in GCV1 (JLT) if that helps. This cost is for the apartment only + public liability but not contents.


----------



## chrisf199

*forum is dead*

This forum / thread is dead. Is it in line with the Dubai property market? 

Pre 2008 this thread especially, was growing by a few pages everyday. Now it grows by a page every week. Could this also be a gauge to judge that the revival of Dubai real estate is a lost cause?

Why are people not reporting that there is a huge slow down in the market at the moment and that prices are going down? 

Please share your advice on what is going on in the market at the moment, as everybody is listing their properties, but there is no buyers.

I heard that in Business Bay asking prices are down as much as 15%, but the newspapers tend to only mention it is 2.9%. 

Can someone who is actually active in the Dubai market please comment on what is going on and answer a few questions.

1) Is it a good time to buy?
2) What is going on in the market right now?
3) Have the prices gone down?
4) Commercial or Residential, which holds better value right now?
5) Where are the best returns / rental yields in Dubai at the moment?
6) Which areas are overpriced and which are well priced?


----------



## dubaiprojects

Depends on where and what are you buying.
One year ago I wanted to buy one apartment and have seen similar comments (wait for a while, market will correct etc etc), and now the same apartment costs 20% more.

You can generalize what you are saying but top class properties are always in demand and it is a good time to buy them even now if you are able to negotiate a good price.


Cheers



chrisf199 said:


> This forum / thread is dead. Is it in line with the Dubai property market?
> 
> Pre 2008 this thread especially, was growing by a few pages everyday. Now it grows by a page every week. Could this also be a gauge to judge that the revival of Dubai real estate is a lost cause?
> 
> Why are people not reporting that there is a huge slow down in the market at the moment and that prices are going down?
> 
> Please share your advice on what is going on in the market at the moment, as everybody is listing their properties, but there is no buyers.
> 
> I heard that in Business Bay asking prices are down as much as 15%, but the newspapers tend to only mention it is 2.9%.
> 
> Can someone who is actually active in the Dubai market please comment on what is going on and answer a few questions.
> 
> 1) Is it a good time to buy?
> 2) What is going on in the market right now?
> 3) Have the prices gone down?
> 4) Commercial or Residential, which holds better value right now?
> 5) Where are the best returns / rental yields in Dubai at the moment?
> 6) Which areas are overpriced and which are well priced?


----------



## AW.

chrisf199 said:


> This forum / thread is dead. Is it in line with the Dubai property market?
> 
> Pre 2008 this thread especially, was growing by a few pages everyday. Now it grows by a page every week. Could this also be a gauge to judge that the revival of Dubai real estate is a lost cause?
> 
> Why are people not reporting that there is a huge slow down in the market at the moment and that prices are going down?
> 
> Please share your advice on what is going on in the market at the moment, as everybody is listing their properties, but there is no buyers.
> 
> I heard that in Business Bay asking prices are down as much as 15%, but the newspapers tend to only mention it is 2.9%.
> 
> Can someone who is actually active in the Dubai market please comment on what is going on and answer a few questions.
> 
> 1) Is it a good time to buy?
> 2) What is going on in the market right now?
> 3) Have the prices gone down?
> 4) Commercial or Residential, which holds better value right now?
> 5) Where are the best returns / rental yields in Dubai at the moment?
> 6) Which areas are overpriced and which are well priced?


The property market has definitely slowed down for sure. Transactions has fallen significantly but the prices haven't. However some of the asking prices are still unrealistic but will surely align to the market conditions. Few observations though as follows. 

1). Trophy assets /area may see some degree of correction of 10-15%. This covers areas like Burj Downtown and Palm Jumeirah. 
2). 10+ years old residences may see some degree of correction in light of new next door project deliveries. This covers areas like Springs, Meadows, Lakes, Arabian Ranches etc. 
3). Affordability is the key. Hence rising rents will support price increase in areas like JLT, Motor City, JVC, Sports City, Gardens, IMPZ. Studio, 1 & 2 Bed prices will hold and will likely to be immune to a typical slowdown.
4). Off Plan projects will bear the full brunt of this slowdown. Expect a discount of 20% - 30% from developers on this. This does not include Emaar, Nakheel or DPG. More like Damac and other private developers. 
5). New supply areas which are almost close to handover or which have been handed over recently are safer bets. These are ready brand new units where investors will want to exit and end user absorption will increase over time. These include areas like Jumeirah Park, Arabian Ranches CASA, Mudon, Sports City, JVC etc. 
6). To arrive at a typical villa / apartment price, look at the current rents and work out a price which yields a 5-7% rental yield. Some Studio, 1 & 2 Bed apartments and hotel apartments may yield in excess of 8%-9% if you negotiate the price well.


----------



## UAE Investor

Investors ,er sorry overseas home buyers still waiting for justice from Dubai authorities....and his prince of financial Darkness,Shiek Mo!

https://www.zawya.com/story/Dubais_...on_law_awaiting_approval-ZAWYA20141016032633/


----------



## Pleth

UAE Investor said:


> Investors ,er sorry overseas home buyers still waiting for justice from Dubai authorities...
> 
> https://www.zawya.com/story/Dubais_...on_law_awaiting_approval-ZAWYA20141016032633/


How are they going to give back 100% to investors when money has disappeared from escrow accounts?


----------



## UAE Investor

Pleth said:


> How are they going to give back 100% to investors when money has disappeared from escrow accounts?


Dubai government has billions of dollars in escrow accounts...they don,t like to part with it!

The government have re done deals with some developers over land prices to get them building again..

People came to Dubai ,stayed in one of the top hotels and fell in love with the place and as result purchased a second home there....

They felt they could trust Dubai as a race of ethical and of strict religion,..but they where complete idiots to put there there trust in these people...as it turns out.

I waited from 2006 to 2014 for my holiday home with my money tied up ..

Building is still 3/4 years away..

I was 54 years old when I invested now at 61 ....

I was one of the lucky ones ..I got out.

Still my only foray , in this life to own a second home,and I failed,..that's how I feel ..and the future well ..I feel too old now !


Plenty still strapped in with little or no hope of ever getting there holiday or second home...or any funds money back.

Sorry to go on..

:lol:


----------



## chrisf199

AW. said:


> The property market has definitely slowed down for sure. Transactions has fallen significantly but the prices haven't. However some of the asking prices are still unrealistic but will surely align to the market conditions. Few observations though as follows.
> 
> 1). Trophy assets /area may see some degree of correction of 10-15%. This covers areas like Burj Downtown and Palm Jumeirah.
> 2). 10+ years old residences may see some degree of correction in light of new next door project deliveries. This covers areas like Springs, Meadows, Lakes, Arabian Ranches etc.
> 3). Affordability is the key. Hence rising rents will support price increase in areas like JLT, Motor City, JVC, Sports City, Gardens, IMPZ. Studio, 1 & 2 Bed prices will hold and will likely to be immune to a typical slowdown.
> 4). Off Plan projects will bear the full brunt of this slowdown. Expect a discount of 20% - 30% from developers on this. This does not include Emaar, Nakheel or DPG. More like Damac and other private developers.
> 5). New supply areas which are almost close to handover or which have been handed over recently are safer bets. These are ready brand new units where investors will want to exit and end user absorption will increase over time. These include areas like Jumeirah Park, Arabian Ranches CASA, Mudon, Sports City, JVC etc.
> 6). To arrive at a typical villa / apartment price, look at the current rents and work out a price which yields a 5-7% rental yield. Some Studio, 1 & 2 Bed apartments and hotel apartments may yield in excess of 8%-9% if you negotiate the price well.


http://www.thenational.ae/business/...ices-on-the-slide-for-first-time-in-two-years


----------



## FrankinDubai

UAE Investor said:


> Dubai government has billions of dollars in escrow accounts...they don,t like to part with it!
> 
> The government have re done deals with some developers over land prices to get them building again..
> 
> People came to Dubai ,stayed in one of the top hotels and fell in love with the place and as result purchased a second home there....
> 
> They felt they could trust Dubai as a race of ethical and of strict religion,..but they where complete idiots to put there there trust in these people...as it turns out.
> 
> I waited from 2006 to 2014 for my holiday home with my money tied up ..
> 
> Building is still 3/4 years away..
> 
> I was 54 years old when I invested now at 61 ....
> 
> I was one of the lucky ones ..I got out.
> 
> Still my only foray , in this life to own a second home,and I failed,..that's how I feel ..and the future well ..I feel too old now !
> 
> 
> Plenty still strapped in with little or no hope of ever getting there holiday or second home...or any funds money back.
> 
> Sorry to go on..
> 
> :lol:



Thank you for writing this.

I often think about people who's lives were ruined by the collapse. We survived but we were relatively young (so could wait it out), had other businesses (they filled the gap when collapsed rents would have meant defaulting on our mortgages) and had good legal assistance.

There were occasions where I could see without another source of income we would have been very likely to default on some of our off-plan properties (delayed without compensation of course) even tho we were 80% paid.

This would have meant losing a decades worth of business profits.... A lost decade to us.

I am genuinely sympathetic to you UAE Investor, you are surely not alone and I hope there is a turn for you that pleasantly surprises.


----------



## Pleth

UAE Investor said:


> Dubai government has billions of dollars in escrow accounts...they don,t like to part with it!
> 
> The government have re done deals with some developers over land prices to get them building again..
> 
> People came to Dubai ,stayed in one of the top hotels and fell in love with the place and as result purchased a second home there....
> 
> They felt they could trust Dubai as a race of ethical and of strict religion,..but they where complete idiots to put there there trust in these people...as it turns out.
> 
> I waited from 2006 to 2014 for my holiday home with my money tied up ..
> 
> Building is still 3/4 years away..


Yes you are lucky at least you will get your apartment next year. 
I hope the quality will be all right as I have seen some terrible buildings lately, not fit to live in. Air con not working, health and safety not up to legal requirements. In the end the owners association can end up paying to fix everything. hno:


8 years ago I invested in two apartments that never took off. We asked RERA about it and they informed us that the Escrow money is gone. So figure that out!?


----------



## UAE Investor

Pleth said:


> Yes you are lucky at least you will get your apartment next year.
> hno:
> ?


Thanks but i don,t think you read my post correctly?

:cheers:


----------



## True Blue

^^ I think she did. 

You wrote that your building is 3/4 years away(9 months), when what you probably meant was 3 to 4 years away.


----------



## UAE Investor

Yeah sorry i meant 3 to 4 years !

Master Developer ..DSC has no money ,not even to fix the web site ..been out of action for 5/6 months.

:lol:


----------



## dubaiprojects

Pleth said:


> Yes you are lucky at least you will get your apartment next year.
> I hope the quality will be all right as I have seen some terrible buildings lately, not fit to live in. Air con not working, health and safety not up to legal requirements. In the end the owners association can end up paying to fix everything. hno:
> 
> 
> 8 years ago I invested in two apartments that never took off. We asked RERA about it and they informed us that the Escrow money is gone. So figure that out!?


I also invested around same time but went well with them.
My question is do we expect all real estate projects to deliver on time and succeed? Is this the case on Europe? Because I receive so many emails from select for properties in the UK, am not sure will all of em be ready for the time specified? Also I would end up paying heavy taxes.
So I think it is the greed that led us to invest blindly in Dubai which in any case has no prior certification of projects being completed on time.
Now you may blame the Govt, but in the end the blame is on us individually .

Cheers


----------



## UAE Investor

dubaiprojects said:


> So I think it is the greed that led us to invest blindly in Dubai which in any case has no prior certification of projects being completed on time.
> Now you may blame the Govt, but in the end the blame is on us individually .
> 
> Cheers


Im in Dubai i make it my ambition to get a holiday home in Dubai ,how in gods earth is that greed,,...?

Did all the investigation i could<? and i purchased thru the master developer(DSC)..so i felt i could trust them?

I was wrong !

I do blame myself....but many here, sitting pretty ,(lucky more like!)..Defend there dubious honour as a result.


:cheers:


----------



## dubaiprojects

UAE Investor said:


> Im in Dubai i make it my ambition to get a holiday home in Dubai ,how in gods earth is that greed,,...?
> 
> Did all the investigation i could<? and i purchased thru the master developer(DSC)..so i felt i could trust them?
> 
> I was wrong !
> 
> I do blame myself....but many here, sitting pretty ,(lucky more like!)..Defend there dubious honour as a result.
> 
> 
> :cheers:


I hear you and really sorry for your loss. 
Regards


----------



## Pleth

dubaiprojects said:


> I also invested around same time but went well with them.
> My question is do we expect all real estate projects to deliver on time and succeed? Is this the case on Europe? Because I receive so many emails from select for properties in the UK, am not sure will all of em be ready for the time specified? Also I would end up paying heavy taxes.
> So I think it is the greed that led us to invest blindly in Dubai which in any case has no prior certification of projects being completed on time.
> Now you may blame the Govt, but in the end the blame is on us individually .
> 
> Cheers


Yes would be interesting to hear if off plans are delivered on time in i.e. UK?
Maybe True Blue could enlighten us?

I did not invest out of greed. I needed a place to live in. Instead I ended up renting AND paying a mortgage at the same time.
I knew that the crime rate was next to nothing in Dubai, so I felt very safe.

But yes I made the big mistake to invest in off plan projects.


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> Yes would be interesting to hear if off plans are delivered on time in i.e. UK?
> Maybe True Blue could enlighten us?
> 
> I did not invest out of greed. I needed a place to live in. Instead I ended up renting AND paying a mortgage at the same time.
> I knew that the crime rate was next to nothing in Dubai, so I felt very safe.
> 
> But yes I made the big mistake to invest in off plan projects.


Everyone has 20/20 vision with the benefit of hindsight. Don't beat yourself up over it, that's my job. :lol: 

Of course I am not laughing at those who got caught out, I'm laughing with them. Just need to pick yourself up, dust off the sand and get on with enjoying life. It could be worse, you could have bought shares in Malaysian Airlines last year...............................or bought a flight ticket :runaway:


----------



## UAE Investor

dubaiprojects said:


> I hear you and really sorry for your loss.
> Regards



thats not the point tho ,



:cheers:


----------



## Green Hornet

True Blue said:


> It could be worse, you could have bought shares in Malaysian Airlines last year...............................or bought a flight ticket :runaway:


Or both.


----------



## Green Hornet

chrisf199 said:


> This forum / thread is dead. Is it in line with the Dubai property market?
> 
> Pre 2008 this thread especially, was growing by a few pages everyday. Now it grows by a page every week. Could this also be a gauge to judge that the revival of Dubai real estate is a lost cause?


I think some of that if not alot of it is to do with the fact the amount of launches and construction is far less now than previously.
There use to be a time when you would come on here and see yet another new thread started for yet another new project.

Things have settled down a lot and the madness of the property boom that saw Dubai grow considerably in a short space of time is no longer there.

It's important to remember when things seem quiet and not much happening that Expo 2020 is in the background as something
that will hopefully prove significant for Dubai and the real estate market.


Although the building of residential properties has slowed down projects for tourism such as theme parks are thankfully gaining speed
plus projects such as Mohammed Bin Rashid City look amazing.


----------



## noir-dresses

I think we have seen the peak of real estate prices rise, a correction is certainly lingering in the air.

When you read the Dubai media hype you always hear positive predictions from the developers who's job it is in the end to paint a perfect picture.

On dubbizzle you would figure prices are going through the roof, but when you talk to real estate agents they actually say there is definitely a slow down. There are next to no buyers out there.

There will be a lot of stock brought on to the market soon, not to mention the additional launches of off plan that will actually over saturate the over all dynamics.

I feel there is a correction coming, if not already.

It seems there is a certain price value a property can gain just before the over supply kicks in. I'm starting to see a lot of the same indicators we saw from the previous 2008/9 cycle.


----------



## True Blue

^^ I don't feel there is any price correction coming. The sales prices tend to correlate with the rentals being achieved. For the previous 6 months up to September, I had noted vacancy rates on the rise in the marina and as expected the rentals went into reverse. However over the last few weeks the opposite has started to happen. Vacancy rates in 2 bed units have started to drop very quickly and a little less so in 1 beds. This is quite important as the laws of supply and demand will mean that if the supply of available units is on the decrease then we can expect to see rents rising again.

Vacancy rates in the Marina peaked at the end of August / beginning of September. Ads for 1 bed units peaked at 1178 listings. Ads for 2 bed units peaked at 1168 listings. Today there were 1001 listings for 1 bed vacancies in the Marina and only 879 for 2 beds. This means that the supply of 1 bed units is down by 15% over the last 6 weeks and down by 25% for 2 bed units. These trends are healthy signs.

I will continue to record the temperature of the rental market leading up to the turn of the year. But I do expect that if the Tram line has the effect that the consultants predict and supply continues its downward trend in the marina, then the correction in rentals and associated prices, will be an upwards one.

The only factor that will affect my prediction is the inherent price volatility which hangs over this region. Investors continue to be nervous about investing in this part of the world. Sentiment plays a big part in driving the market.


----------



## dubaiprojects

I did not get it. I thought a lot has already been invested in dubai and more is being invested at this time, new projects etc based on expo 20 news.

And what exactly in your opinion is the hindrance for people to invest in this region? You mean politically? or financially? 



True Blue said:


> Investors continue to be nervous about investing in this part of the world. Sentiment plays a big part in driving the market.


----------



## FrankinDubai

True Blue said:


> ^^ I don't feel there is any price correction coming. The sales prices tend to correlate with the rentals being achieved. ....................Sentiment plays a big part in driving the market.



Amen ^^

If you want to buy well in Dubai, it is the rental market you should be studying


----------



## FrankinDubai

dubaiprojects said:


> I did not get it. I thought a lot has already been invested in dubai and more is being invested at this time, new projects etc based on expo 20 news.
> 
> And what exactly in your opinion is the hindrance for people to invest in this region? You mean politically? or financially?


Surely once yields drop to similar levels of less risky regions, money will head back to the safer plays.

Infrastructure commitments are amazing now and looking forward, but that does not mean peace and security will remain, nor guarantee your investment in the same way as more established western economies.


----------



## Spurs

75m for a flat in the marina can this be right?: http://m.thenational.ae/business/the-life/20141023/dh75m-pad-in-dubai-marinas-most-prestigious-tower


----------



## noir-dresses

FrankinDubai said:


> Amen ^^
> 
> If you want to buy well in Dubai, it is the rental market you should be studying


If I remember correctly in the 2009 correction real estate prices dropped first, while the rents held up until they dropped eventually as well. 

It's hard to really get a grip on actual rent indicators because it's determined by the government, and not by actual supply, and demand like other free markets.

Basically free hold rentals are a fake rental index made to keep the guest workers happy at the expense of the investors. The government needs to do what they are doing or else the guest workers have no real incentive of working in Dubai if most of they're income is spent on living accommodations.

Notice how tenants have much more rights than the landlords, it's made to keep them working in Dubai. 

Is it normal for a guest worker with a cheque book to have so much more power over a landlord who forked out hundreds of thousands of USD's? The landlord needs a twelve month notice of eviction with a good reason to be notarized, and all the tenant needs is to leave with a very small penalty.

I'm not even going to get into how much new supply is going to enter the market.

Just look at DLD when it comes to actual sales, and that is your best indicator hands down.


----------



## dubaiprojects

Spurs said:


> 75m for a flat in the marina can this be right?: http://m.thenational.ae/business/the-life/20141023/dh75m-pad-in-dubai-marinas-most-prestigious-tower


Le reve tower is special case as all of its units are way expensive than rest of marina. 

http://www.bhomes.com/property/news...VDK67304Ml1cxAmUVgDZuCBGfbrBgoH&listview=true

Never understood why over prices to such an extent? maybe the class of people living here is what makes this so expensive.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

7.5% rental yields are available in the marina at the moment which is pretty healthy.


----------



## Pleth

*2 Years ago*

Poor owners of Tamweel Tower. It has been 2 years and nothing has happened since the fire damaged the tower in JLT. 

It seems Arab Orient Insurance company is getting away with murder.

http://gulfnews.com/about-gulf-news...rs-of-gutted-homes-1.1402623?anchor=poll#poll


----------



## UAE Investor

Pleth said:


> Poor owners of Tamweel Tower. It has been 2 years and nothing has happened since the fire damaged the tower in JLT.
> 
> It seems Arab Orient Insurance company is getting away with murder.
> 
> http://gulfnews.com/about-gulf-news...rs-of-gutted-homes-1.1402623?anchor=poll#poll


Wonder who the directors are of this company....

Usual load of arab B/s as usual ...cos they don,t want to pay out!

http://www.araborient.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=36&Itemid=23


----------



## True Blue

^^ A bit like the building warranties issued by the developers, not worth the paper they are written on.


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> ^^ A bit like the building warranties issued by the developers, not worth the paper they are written on.


You are absolutely right.
Dubai needs to regulate and be the law maker, otherwise the property marked will take another fall.

In Europe a 12 months warranty is clear, in Dubai it is a Russian roulette.
What happens if a building is not up to standard? In Dubai nothing.


----------



## rags

Pleth said:


> Yes would be interesting to hear if off plans are delivered on time in i.e. UK?
> Maybe True Blue could enlighten us?
> 
> I did not invest out of greed. I needed a place to live in. Instead I ended up renting AND paying a mortgage at the same time.
> I knew that the crime rate was next to nothing in Dubai, so I felt very safe.
> 
> But yes I made the big mistake to invest in off plan projects.


With respect to your UK question, yes, most off-plans are delivered on time in UK. That said, many developers sell only when constructions are beginning / have begun. They also sell in phases.


----------



## shotcaller

Does anyone know much is payable for Land Registration on off-plan properties that were purchased prior to the increase (from 2% to 4%) by the Land Department. Emaar has apparently sent out emails for certain off-plan properties requesting that 4% be paid within 3 months whereas Nakheel has notified its customers that 2% can be paid if the payment is made by 15th November.


----------



## True Blue

rags said:


> With respect to your UK question, yes, most off-plans are delivered on time in UK. That said, many developers sell only when constructions are beginning / have begun. They also sell in phases.


Sorry, yes I missed that question. The situation is different in the UK. Projects do stall and slow down if the demand goes cold. In the UK you would never be expected to pay any more than 10% as a deposit and the rest on completion. There is no resale market for off plans in the UK as the buyer has to sign legal missives binding them to purchase the unit when built. You are still at risk in the UK where you commit to a price and if the market falls you still have to pay up even if it means negative equity. So you might be happy if the developer puts the brakes on. If either party defaults at the date of completion, then they are entitled to be compensated. 

Unfortunately, in Dubai both sides were at fault in generating a false off plan property market. People signed agreements without having the funds secured to complete the purchase, believing they could easily flip or exit the market at any time. Developers did not check the buyers ability to pay and therefore fuelled an unsustainable market. Many investors were amateur property investors and incredibly many developers had never built anything other than a garden shed prior to buying a license and entering the Dubai property market. 

The worldwide financial crisis was brought about entirely by unsecured financial dealings which let people buy property they couldn't afford, pushing up prices and creating a fictitious market. The banks loved it because new money was being created in the economy through the creation of new debt. The way off plans were sold and easily traded/flipped in Dubai had the same effect of creating a fictitious market that was also unsustainable and that would ultimately crash as soon as people ran into difficulty selling worthless, never built off plan properties in which they had pumped in vast loads of cash.


----------



## houshang

shotcaller said:


> Does anyone know much is payable for Land Registration on off-plan properties that were purchased prior to the increase (from 2% to 4%) by the Land Department. Emaar has apparently sent out emails for certain off-plan properties requesting that 4% be paid within 3 months whereas Nakheel has notified its customers that 2% can be paid if the payment is made by 15th November.


It is the timing of registration that decides the level of registration fee,besides the buyer still pays 2 percent and the rest is supposed to be paid by the seller unless the sales contract stipulates that all is paid by the buyer.

Could you please name the projects that Nakheel has given the buyers till 15th November to pay the fee at 2 percent.


----------



## Salseando

Ladies and Gentlemen, does anyone know if there is any bank that offers financing for OFF PLAN right now? I heard about 50% but no clue...can anyone help please?

thanks


----------



## dubaiprojects

Salseando said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, does anyone know if there is any bank that offers financing for OFF PLAN right now? I heard about 50% but no clue...can anyone help please?
> 
> thanks


As advised by others on here, stay away from off plan!!


----------



## AW.

Salseando said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, does anyone know if there is any bank that offers financing for OFF PLAN right now? I heard about 50% but no clue...can anyone help please?
> 
> thanks


 Mashreq Bank does. Maximum loan will be 50%. But banks will be very very choosy in terms of extending mortgages. Developer has to be strong and so does the project.


----------



## Salseando

AW. said:


> Mashreq Bank does. Maximum loan will be 50%. But banks will be very very choosy in terms of extending mortgages. Developer has to be strong and so does the project.


Thanks AW, it will be for a EMAAR project, do you know how does the bank provide the finances? I mean since it's Off Plan, do I have to pay the first 50% and then the bank gives me the rest for the following instalments?

thanks


----------



## Salseando

dubaiprojects said:


> As advised by others on here, stay away from off plan!!


Why? I mean , I have my own flat on mortgage at 29 boulevard, downtown, then I invested in an apartment off plan at Boulevard Point, EMAAR project in downtown. I wouldn't to it with a developer who has bad reputation...

for second mortgage the bank ask for 40% deposit in one go, which is a lot of money...

Do you think the above investment is a bad one?


----------



## dubaiprojects

Salseando said:


> Why? I mean , I have my own flat on mortgage at 29 boulevard, downtown, then I invested in an apartment off plan at Boulevard Point, EMAAR project in downtown. I wouldn't to it with a developer who has bad reputation...
> 
> for second mortgage the bank ask for 40% deposit in one go, which is a lot of money...
> 
> Do you think the above investment is a bad one?


I am glad that it has been working for you. 
I do not like the idea of off plan and to make it worse that too with a loan of several years. This is my personal opinion and have seen many posts on SSC where people had lots of trouble in off plan projects being delayed most of the time, if at all delivered.

Cheers


----------



## AW.

Salseando said:


> Thanks AW, it will be for a EMAAR project, do you know how does the bank provide the finances? I mean since it's Off Plan, do I have to pay the first 50% and then the bank gives me the rest for the following instalments? thanks


Yes. Bank will expect you to make the initial construction linked payments upto 50% of the project value. Just speak with their mortgage advisor.


----------



## True Blue

Salseando said:


> Why? I mean , I have my own flat on mortgage at 29 boulevard, downtown, then I invested in an apartment off plan at Boulevard Point, EMAAR project in downtown. *I wouldn't to it with a developer who has bad reputation...*
> 
> for second mortgage the bank ask for 40% deposit in one go, which is a lot of money...
> 
> Do you think the above investment is a bad one?


It is still off plan, which means that you are buying a promise written on a piece of paper. Both Emaar and Nakheel have defaulted on these promises and issued credit notes to purchasers of cancelled projects instead of returning their cash. These credit notes were traded at a discount where the owner needed the cash rather than an option to swap to another overpriced development. I even recall Emaar cancelling the right to trade these credit notes, making them even more worthless.

You need to think very carefully before you enter into an off plan purchase, especially if you are going to take a mortgage and incur massive fees for the privilege.


----------



## Salseando

True Blue said:


> It is still off plan, which means that you are buying a promise written on a piece of paper. Both Emaar and Nakheel have defaulted on these promises and issued credit notes to purchasers of cancelled projects instead of returning their cash. These credit notes were traded at a discount where the owner needed the cash rather than an option to swap to another overpriced development. I even recall Emaar cancelling the right to trade these credit notes, making them even more worthless.
> 
> You need to think very carefully before you enter into an off plan purchase, especially if you are going to take a mortgage and incur massive fees for the privilege.


I see, you guys are more experienced than me, I have been to Dubai only 4 years...I got the point of the delays and risk of project cancelation...

Already took the risk in Boulevard Point, hope it will be ok, as Downtown has to be finished by 2019 before the EXPO.

Thanks anyway for the warnings, definitely I need to be careful for any future investments


----------



## chefdude

Salseando said:


> I see, you guys are more experienced than me, I have been to Dubai only 4 years...I got the point of the delays and risk of project cancelation...
> 
> Already took the risk in Boulevard Point, hope it will be ok, as Downtown has to be finished by 2019 before the EXPO.
> 
> Thanks anyway for the warnings, definitely I need to be careful for any future investments


I would have thought the only thing that needs to be finished for EXPO2020 is the Expo site, can't see what Downtown has to do with it. Dubai will never be "finished" there will always be a project under construction somewhere in the city, and as others have said think long and hard about off plan. Since the first building boom in 2004 it has proven to be extremely high risk as to (a) if your unit is the same size you were sold and the building is of a standard you were promised and (b) it is finished at all.

Caveat Emptor


----------



## dubaiprojects

Salseando said:


> I see, you guys are more experienced than me, I have been to Dubai only 4 years...I got the point of the delays and risk of project cancelation...
> 
> Already took the risk in Boulevard Point, hope it will be ok, as Downtown has to be finished by 2019 before the EXPO.
> 
> Thanks anyway for the warnings, definitely I need to be careful for any future investments


It is experience of Dubai real estate that folks are telling you.
But there were successful off plan projects as well. It is just that the odds are in favor of those which were delayed. However as you can see Dubai marina, is already full of buildings, so it also depends where are you buying the project at...
I wish you all the best in your investments in the UAE and good luck.

cheers


----------



## True Blue

chefdude said:


> I would have thought the only thing that needs to be finished for EXPO2020 is the Expo site, can't see what Downtown has to do with it. Dubai will never be "finished" there will always be a project under construction somewhere in the city, and as others have said think long and hard about off plan. Since the first building boom in 2004 it has proven to be extremely high risk as to (a) if your unit is the same size you were sold and the building is of a standard you were promised and (b) it is finished at all.
> 
> Caveat Emptor


^^All very true. I know people who are just receiving the keys to their off plans this year that were scheduled for handover in 2009. Like you say, many of the features promised by the developer were never delivered and the top spec luxury ended up being bog standard spec with no appliances or even a serviceable air conditioning system. Owners all take the same view that they are so worn down that they are just happy to get something that they can sell or fix up. Others weren't so lucky.

4 biggest off plan property myths in Dubai;


"No one will lose money in Dubai property". The Sheikh himself believed it, but I wonder how much he lost of his own wealth supporting his portfolio of dud development companies.
"There are property laws which will protect me as an investor" Property laws tend always to favour the person with the most money and that tends to be the developers. 
"Buy from a government backed developer and you are guaranteed your unit" Tell that to those who bought on Palm Jebel Ali. There are also a couple of abandoned Emaar towers out in the desert near Akoya.
"All buildings need to be finished by a key milestone" I was led to believe that The Marina had to be finished by 2011 and that no more permits would be issued after that date. The marina is far from finished and there remains no landscaping in the large area in front of my towers, despite construction being finished for 6 years. The landscaping of the Marina being Emaar's responsibility. 

All developers used that "everything must be finished by" lie to sell their apartments. All current and future developments will be sold with the lie that everything must be finished by Expo 2020, and many people will believe it.


----------



## houshang

AltinD said:


> That would be welcomed but I don't pretend a free lunch, not my thing. What I needed was someone kicking my arse all the way to a real estate developer/agent to sign for a property, both in 2002 - 4 and after the crash in 2009 - 2010. A friend keep telling me: "You should have got at least 4 - 5 homes by now, left your job and keep collecting rent money .... also driving a Bentley" :lol:
> 
> PS: I've been contributing for a little more than just a "few years". My most active years were early 2005 - late 2006 when I was the one providing picture updates for SZR, Marina and JLT projects, before Imre taking the lead :nono:
> 
> 
> 30339 posts says it all.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> ^^ Singular, not plural hno:


Semantics! It's the comedy element that counts. If we can't laugh we can't live.


----------



## AltinD

If we can't live we can't laugh either :colbert:


----------



## 1Dxb

Speaking of JLT or "JBL" here are 3 links to listings in Dubai Star for under 900Dhs/sqft that are good investment opportunities. 

However despite their claims that the tower would be ready in mid 2015, in my opinion the end of 2015/early 2016 is a more realistic timeframe to plan against.This is strictly my opinion though, based on the tower's progress over the past year, as I do not have any inside information from the developer or site engineers. 

http://tnydu.biz/Daj241
http://tnydu.biz/Daj5gi 
http://tnydu.biz/DajLgk


----------



## dave83

*INVEST IN DUBAI FOR YIELD*

Dear All

What can around 400,000 AED buy? Should I buy in International City for stable rent cash flow.

Is the time right?


----------



## Slimbo

Anyone know exactly when the RERA Rental Calculator was updated recently?

Average rent of a 2 bedroom apartment in the Marina has gone up from 155k to 165k.


----------



## noir-dresses

I'm surprised that no body has mentioned the tragedy that had occurred in Abu Dhabi a few day's ago regarding the American school teacher, and mother to two orphans. What happened was a tragedy, and will certainly send shock waves for many years to come regarding the UAE as a desired Western destination.


----------



## Pleth

I don't agree Noir Dresses. This was a single incident coursed by a woman who probably belongs in a mental institution. 
It was tragic but if you compare this to terrorism, road bombs and rocket attacks, or the bomb that exploded in Sweden this week, then it certainly doesn't scare me. 

And the Abu Dhabi police did a great job finding her very quickly.
UAE is still one of the safest places on earth.


----------



## Slimbo

noir-dresses said:


> and mother to two orphans.


Their father is still alive, and now looking after them.


----------



## idontdream

noir-dresses said:


> I'm surprised that no body has mentioned the tragedy that had occurred in Abu Dhabi a few day's ago regarding the American school teacher, and mother to two orphans. What happened was a tragedy, and will certainly send shock waves for many years to come regarding the UAE as a desired Western destination.



It surely can't be worse than this :

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/07/cumberland-hotel-hammer-attack-attempted-murder


----------



## noir-dresses

idontdream said:


> It surely can't be worse than this :
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/07/cumberland-hotel-hammer-attack-attempted-murder


What happened in England was bad, but this could have been much, much worse if that explosive device went off. That would of taken it to the next level with mass destruction, multiple casaulties, and kaos which is the last thing the UAE needs.

I have a feeling there's more to this than we know. Lot's of unanswered questions such as was she a Lone Wolf, or are there more like her blending into every day life there. Do you really believe she put that device together her self, and that no body knew what she was up to all a long.

What also makes it difficult to understand is that she lived a comfortable life in a nice house, drove an SUV, over weight from over eating, etc, etc. 

Yes Pleth is right that this person is insane, but in the end it is what it is. Let's hope we all see a peaceful future.


----------



## noir-dresses

Does any body know what the official terming the Abu Dhabi police, and government used in regards to the murder, and failed explosive device a few days ago.

Did they call it a criminal act, or was it called a terrorist act?

The reason this might be important is if it was called a terrorist attack then Force Majeure could apply to any agreements, and contracts in relation to real estate in the UAE.


----------



## UAE Investor

noir-dresses said:


> Does any body know what the official terming the Abu Dhabi police, and government used in regards to the murder, and failed explosive device a few days ago.
> 
> Did they call it a criminal act, or was it called a terrorist act?
> 
> The reason this might be important is if it was called a terrorist attack then Force Majeure could apply to any agreements, and contracts in relation to real estate in the UAE.


Six months ....suspended for good behaviour !:lol:


----------



## True Blue

noir-dresses said:


> Does any body know what the official terming the Abu Dhabi police, and government used in regards to the murder, and failed explosive device a few days ago.
> 
> Did they call it a criminal act, or was it called a terrorist act?
> 
> The reason this might be important is if it was called a terrorist attack then Force Majeure could apply to any agreements, and contracts in relation to real estate in the UAE.


I'm not following your logic. There is no direct connection with this event and any real estate development therefore it can not be applied to any force majeure events.

If a terrorist bombed a development and the site was closed while the police investigated the crime scene, or there was significant damage to the construction that needed repairs, then that would be classed as a force majeure situation. If a major terrorist event off site, caused the slow down of materials and labour arriving on site then again it would apply. The onus is on the affected party to prove the direct effect of the terrorism on their ability to perform their contractual obligations and to serve such notices on time. Failure to notify the other parties to the contract would prevent them from later relying on the events as being the reason for the delays.


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> I'm not following your logic. There is no direct connection with this event and any real estate development therefore it can not be applied to any force majeure events.
> 
> If a terrorist bombed a development and the site was closed while the police investigated the crime scene, or there was significant damage to the construction that needed repairs, then that would be classed as a force majeure situation. If a major terrorist event off site, caused the slow down of materials and labour arriving on site then again it would apply. The onus is on the affected party to prove the direct effect of the terrorism on their ability to perform their contractual obligations and to serve such notices on time. Failure to notify the other parties to the contract would prevent them from later relying on the events as being the reason for the delays.


Got it


----------



## Jet7

Guys, I need your guidance here. Will it possible to achieve a 9% ROI in Dubai Real Estate nowadays? If yes, then which area, tower…etc. If no, what’s the max ROI that I can achieve?


----------



## True Blue

If you factor in the real opportunities for growth and add this to rental returns, then 9% is achievable anywhere where you can pick up a good deal.


----------



## Jet7

Thanks TB.

What about off plans? I'm considering Mira villas and would appreciate your thoughts on it!


----------



## True Blue

^^If you follow my posts you will see I encourage people to avoid off plans. Only worth considering if they are near completion and there has been no history of stalls.


----------



## Impy

*DUBAI PROPERTY REPORT, EMIRATES 24/7.Dec 2014*

"Dubai is the world's hottest property market

Dubai remains on top of world's best performing markets for seven consecutive quarters"

By Parag Deulgaonkar, Emirates 24/7
Published Sunday, December 14, 2014

http://www.emirates247.com/property...-market-click-for-details-2014-12-14-1.573275


----------



## Rider

The market could find itself in a position where property prices are declining but a large pool of potential investors (Europeans & Russians) are not able to take advantage of this due to the strong/strengthening USD. This could result in a significant slowdown in the number of transactions being completed. I would be ready to buy next year but could be put off by a strong USD/AED. Any chance of the UAE unpegging from the USD anytime soon?


----------



## shotcaller

Rider said:


> The market could find itself in a position where property prices are declining but a large pool of potential investors (Europeans & Russians) are not able to take advantage of this due to the strong/strengthening USD. This could result in a significant slowdown in the number of transactions being completed. I would be ready to buy next year but could be put off by a strong USD/AED. Any chance of the UAE unpegging from the USD anytime soon?


http://www.thenational.ae/business/economy/economists-see-no-reason-to-scrap-us-dollar-dirham-peg


----------



## Green Hornet

True Blue said:


> ^^ around 10% over priced.


Cheers


----------



## mackie1964

Happy New Year Everone and thanks CK and TB

Dubai / The Torch in the news again today hno:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...gest-drug-dealers-fraudsters-tax-dodgers.html


----------



## True Blue

^^Ah! That is why DubaiSteve has been so quiet. :lol:

Happy and prosperous New Year to you all.


----------



## Spurs

Is there a thread for the parks being built. I saw this: http://www.dubaiparksandresorts.com/#section1


----------



## Abashiri

*Please review my property buying guide*

As someone who has gone through the process and lived to tell about it, I would like to share my Dubai property buying guide called Buy in Dubai  published on Amazon. 

It discusses everything from choosing a location, to securing a mortgage, to understanding the MOU, to dealing with the government.

I am looking for book reviewers - if you would like to provide a quick review on Amazon, please message me either here or on my blog, and I will send you a free Epub or Mobi.

Thanks!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> ^^Ah! That is why DubaiSteve has been so quiet. :lol:
> 
> Happy and prosperous New Year to you all.


Don't worry, I'm still here listening to all your propaganda :lol:


----------



## AltinD

True Blue said:


> ^^ around 10% over priced.


So what is one supposed to do to get the non-upmarket price? :dunno:


----------



## Rider

AltinD said:


> So what is one supposed to do to get the non-upmarket price? :dunno:


Offer less than the asking price to see how badly the seller wants to sell.


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> So what is one supposed to do to get the non-upmarket price? :dunno:


If you want to win the lottery you must first BUY A TICKET. The same principle applies if you want to get a good price, you must PLACE AN OFFER.

Quite a lot of sellers are just flying kites at unrealistic prices and don't really want to sell. You have to identify the people who are really in the market to sell and start negotiating hard.

The market is mature now and operates without any panic buying or selling, like it did in the past. The same applies to rentals, I had listed a unit at an unrealistic price as I wanted to keep it for myself for a month. I still managed to get viewings but no takers at the high price. Then when I was ready to move out I dropped the price 10k and had it rented within a week. Begs the question why we still need rent controls. :dunno:


----------



## ramki007

*Please send me a copy*



Abashiri said:


> As someone who has gone through the process and lived to tell about it, I would like to share my Dubai property buying guide called Buy in Dubai  published on Amazon.
> 
> It discusses everything from choosing a location, to securing a mortgage, to understanding the MOU, to dealing with the government.
> 
> I am looking for book reviewers - if you would like to provide a quick review on Amazon, please message me either here or on my blog, and I will send you a free Epub or Mobi.
> 
> Thanks!




My email is [email protected]
Thanks


----------



## FrankinDubai

Quick take on the market?

*Off-plan is dead, dead, dead*

I get the feeling off plan sales are really suffering. 
There is now the distinct possibility that projects, like Viceroy on the Palm, will end up delivering units that cannot be sold on at original price.
Premiums on off-plan will start to turn negative- this is a random prediction of mine.

*Completed market in Residential/commercial*

In residential the market seems well stabilised. I am guessing most are buying for income/rent now, and capital appreciation is a secondary factor to investment decision. Capital values may go sideways and dip some, is my opinion. We are continuing to buy if net yield is compelling in this sector- but its still hard to get a good price.

In commercial, offices and retail units have continued to soar in rents. There is opportunity here in off-plan, if a project is very near to completion. I know JLT well and rents in offices continue to push up. Here you can possibly make double digit net yields.

Land is where there may be some bargains to be had and have been looking at making some very cheeky offers to see if developers, like nakheel's Furjan will give a bit.

I think thats my take- I don't see an imminent collapse or any dramatic dips, but simply stopping growth will be enough to cause pain for many unfortunately.

*Anyone see a more positive outlook then this?* Would love to hear there's room for capital growth over next 24 months in resi.

Happy new year all )))


----------



## UAE Investor

FrankinDubai said:


> Quick take on the market?
> 
> *Off-plan is dead, dead, dead*
> 
> I get the feeling off plan sales are really suffering.
> There is now the distinct possibility that projects, like Viceroy on the Palm, will end up delivering units that cannot be sold on at original price.
> Premiums on off-plan will start to turn negative- this is a random prediction of mine.
> 
> *Completed market in Residential/commercial*
> 
> In residential the market seems well stabilised. I am guessing most are buying for income/rent now, and capital appreciation is a secondary factor to investment decision. Capital values may go sideways and dip some, is my opinion. We are continuing to buy if net yield is compelling in this sector- but its still hard to get a good price.
> 
> In commercial, offices and retail units have continued to soar in rents. There is opportunity here in off-plan, if a project is very near to completion. I know JLT well and rents in offices continue to push up. Here you can possibly make double digit net yields.
> 
> Land is where there may be some bargains to be had and have been looking at making some very cheeky offers to see if developers, like nakheel's Furjan will give a bit.
> 
> I think thats my take- I don't see an imminent collapse or any dramatic dips, but simply stopping growth will be enough to cause pain for many unfortunately.
> 
> *Anyone see a more positive outlook then this?* Would love to hear there's room for capital growth over next 24 months in resi.
> 
> Happy new year all )))



Prices in Dubai are nuts..driven by pure greed,as most investors hold.

Big weakness in the UAE property sector is overseas company,s.

If they stop operating in the middle east ,(very costly!) Dubai will drop over 75% and come in line with the dollar company,s ,Dirham is linked too!

I could be talking nonsense but i won,t be the last one to do that!

:cheers:


----------



## chefdude

UAE Investor said:


> Big weakness in the UAE property sector is overseas company,s.
> 
> If they stop operating in the middle east ,(very costly!)
> 
> :cheers:


And why would they ever likely do that? Golbalisation necessitates having offices and operations in many differnet countries. Think of the tax advantages chanelling income through here as oposed to Europe for one.

I am sure there are many other good reasons why there is so many large companies here just needs a bit of lateral thinking


----------



## AsianLeo

*With commodity prices dropping, will cost of construction reduce?*

Prices of All commodities and building materials are falling in line with Oil. Will this make big impact on construction cost?


----------



## UAE Investor

AsianLeo said:


> Prices of All commodities and building materials are falling in line with Oil. Will this make big impact on construction cost?


what like you make concrete out of oil ?

Did,nt know that.

:lol:


----------



## True Blue

UAE Investor said:


> what like you make concrete out of oil ?
> 
> Did,nt know that.
> 
> :lol:


Actually yes!

The main component is cement which requires a lot of heat energy to produce. Then there are the 2 types of aggregates, sand and crushed stone. The process for excavating, transporting, crushing, screening, washing and then finally transporting to the batching plant, all requires fuel energy. The raw material cost is basically zero. It is the process that needs the fuel and therefore is the basis of the material final cost.


----------



## gevorika78

AsianLeo said:


> Prices of All commodities and building materials are falling in line with Oil. Will this make big impact on construction cost?


Yes construction cost will decrease.


----------



## Essa

Hi guys,
I read the last few pages in this thread and barely found any suggestions or advice of wether one should sell their properties in Dubai as there are speculations that prices will drop in 2015 due to oil prices. What are your thoughts?


----------



## Richard Head

Essa said:


> Hi guys,
> I read the last few pages in this thread and barely found any suggestions or advice of wether one should sell their properties in Dubai as there are speculations that prices will drop in 2015 due to oil prices. What are your thoughts?


They are already dropping. There are very few buyers in the market. One reason is the mortgage cap, another is general uncertainty, and a third is the new properties hitting the market in the next 1-2 years. The only buyers left in the market are those with cash looking for distress sales and bargains. Welcome to 2009 ver 2.


----------



## AltinD




----------



## Rider

Richard Head said:


> They are already dropping. There are very few buyers in the market. One reason is the mortgage cap, another is general uncertainty, and a third is the new properties hitting the market in the next 1-2 years. The only buyers left in the market are those with cash looking for distress sales and bargains. Welcome to 2009 ver 2.


Another factor is FX. A stronger US dollar makes it less attractive for those looking to buy who need to convert GBP/EUR and other currencies into AED.

Does anyone know the best way to find distress sales? I've looked on Dubizzle many times lately and get the feeling that many of the listings are not coming from serious sellers. Either agents digging for buyer contact details or property owners who are just testing the market. Perhaps developments nearing completion/handover could be a good source if some investors are struggling to make final payments.


----------



## True Blue

Essa said:


> Hi guys,
> I read the last few pages in this thread and barely found any suggestions or advice of wether one should sell their properties in Dubai as there are speculations that prices will drop in 2015 due to oil prices. What are your thoughts?


It doesn't matter if prices soften, the strong dollar will compensate for it. Anyone keen to sell might even knock off a few percent just to secure a sale then hold the cash and watch for the dollar peaking.

I read an article last week which suggested that the $ is heading for a minimum 2 year rally. Makes dollar based purchases very expensive for those who need to trade in their weaker currency for dollars and dirhams. Russia is out of the market now, Euro is sinking every day and the GBP is sinking also but not as fast as the Euro. Property in Dubai is just becoming too expensive for investors with Euros, GBP and RR in their bank accounts. I believe the same applies with Indian Rupees although I'm not monitoring that situation.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

> Dubai’s real estate market will see a rise in home-owners and a shift towards affordable housing, according to Mohamed Alabbar, chairman of developer Emaar.
> 
> In his exclusive 2015 Gulf Business Power Letter, Alabbar stressed that the emirate’s property market was seeing interest from a different set of investors.
> 
> “With growth powered by the massive preparations to host the World Expo 2020 and the positive performance of Dubai’s diversified business sectors, demand for owned homes to live in, from a larger segment of the population, will gain traction,” he wrote.
> 
> “Dubai’s real estate market will thus be driven by homeowners, and not by speculators as in the past, and this is a great sign of a maturing market.”


http://gulfbusiness.com/2015/01/dub...riven-homeowners-emaars-alabbar/#.VL-O53lyZaQ


----------



## Dubai_Steve

> Dubai developer Nakheel has not recorded a drop in property prices in any of its projects, Chairman Ali Rashid Lootah said on Wednesday.
> 
> “We did see a slowdown in sales during the second half of last year, but we haven’t seen a drop in prices. We are still selling at the old prices,” Lootah told reporters.
> 
> “Also, all our sales are cash- transactions, so we are mortgage-free. We have healthy customers, who buy with their own money.”
> 
> He also confirmed that most of the investors were end-users. “The market is now very different from the old days,” he added.


http://gulfbusiness.com/2015/01/dubais-nakheel-says-seen-drop-property-prices/#.VL-P4XlyZaQ


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai’s planning chiefs have vowed to not let the city “get out of hand” as they prepare for a population surge over the next six years.

One of the city’s top officials yesterday revealed that the number of people living in the emirate is *expected to increase by about 1.2 million* – a rise of *more than 50 per cent *– between now and 2020, when it will host the World Expo.

http://7daysindubai.com/planners-say-dubai-population-will-top-3-4-million-2020/


----------



## Rider

Dubai_Steve said:


> http://gulfbusiness.com/2015/01/dubais-nakheel-says-seen-drop-property-prices/#.VL-P4XlyZaQ


If developers were feeling secure about making sales and maintaining selling prices, why feel the need to come out with such a statement? 

Would love to know how sales are going at Select's The Residences at Marina Gate. Over AED 2000 per sq ft I recall reading somewhere.


----------



## True Blue

^^The statement from Nakheel is just ridiculous. So they haven't sold a single unit to a Russian investor who is now facing a massively devalued currency. Even Euros are down 20% against the $ and Dirham. Buyers are being squeezed everywhere now, so that statement shows they are still willing to lie through their arse or they have no clue of what is really happening in the world.


----------



## AltinD

Rider said:


> I've looked on Dubizzle many times lately and get the feeling that many of the listings are not coming from serious sellers. Either agents digging for buyer contact details or property owners who are just testing the market. Perhaps developments nearing completion/handover could be a good source if some investors are struggling to make final payments.


Do you mean you wanted to negotiate by putting forward a counter-offer with a much much cheaper than asking prices and not working ... or that the property you were interested in just "happen" to have been sold a few hours ago?


----------



## Rider

AltinD said:


> Do you mean you wanted to negotiate by putting forward a counter-offer with a much much cheaper than asking prices and not working ... or that the property you were interested in just "happen" to have been sold a few hours ago?


I'm not making an offer in my initial enquiry but asking the agent to answer one or two questions as well as asking for confirmation that the apartment is actually for sale and the seller is serious about selling. Usually I receive no reply but in most other cases the agent informs me that the apartment had 'just happened to get sold hours before' as you suggested. I then coincidentally start to receive newsletters and marketing emails from that same agent.


----------



## Freestyler

Existing tenant is insisting on renewing tenancy without agent. Is it possible to renew without agent and what might be the potential problems without agent?


----------



## Rider

Freestyler said:


> Existing tenant is insisting on renewing tenancy without agent. Is it possible to renew without agent and what might be the potential problems without agent?


It's possible to do it without an agent but you would need to have a proper rental agreement template that you can update each year. The main obstacle could be collection and deposit of cheques. Agents are handy if you're not based in Dubai as they can meet the tenant to collect original contracts & cheques as well as depositing those cheques at your bank throughout the year. Some banks will hold post dated cheques and deposit them when the time comes but they will probably charge for that. 

I know a very good agent who is a bit of a SSC legend after all the photos he has provided over the years. Send me a PM if you would like his contact details as he handles my contract renewals and depositing of cheques.


----------



## AltinD

^^ Is Imre still doing that, cause I heard he left town and went back home.


----------



## Sid

^^
He (Imre) was back in Hungary when I last try to contact him in Jul 13..


----------



## Rider

^^

He made a comeback and is in the process of renewing one of my agreements. He also helped me buy an apartment in Silverene and I would highly recommend him.


----------



## Sid

Rider said:


> ^^
> 
> He made a comeback and is in the process of renewing one of my agreements. I would highly recommend him.


That's good to know. I'll contact him at next renewal. :cheers:

He's extremely helpful - top guy!


----------



## UAE Investor

Dubai_Steve said:


> http://gulfbusiness.com/2015/01/dub...riven-homeowners-emaars-alabbar/#.VL-O53lyZaQ


It was affordable housing in the first place....just the B/S Dubai speculaters tried to make it luxury !

Only luxury/5 star is hotels ..everything else 2/3 star...with lights on top!

:lol:


----------



## hemelboorder

My estimate is that prices of apartments in an area like JLT have fallen 10 to 15% over the past half year. Probably the same for other areas. So don't believe what local media write (they are censored).

My personal top 4 of causes of the drop:
- the higher US dollar
- the lower Euro
- the fall in oil prices
- the dramatic fall of russian ruble

Means that if you hold dollars, it might be a good buying opportunity. The USD will one time take a turn downwards again.


----------



## UAE Investor

http://www.emirates247.com/property...tate-projects-and-refunds-2015-01-25-1.577902

Sorry ....it seems the DUBAI government want to show this to the investors/ general public at last...!

Funny that ....will they show the new book of real estate rules intented for never, next ?

:lol:


----------



## Jet7

hemelboorder said:


> My estimate is that prices of apartments in an area like JLT have fallen 10 to 15% over the past half year. Probably the same for other areas. So don't believe what local media write (they are censored).
> 
> My personal top 4 of causes of the drop:
> - the higher US dollar
> - the lower Euro
> - the fall in oil prices
> - the dramatic fall of russian ruble
> 
> Means that if you hold dollars, it might be a good buying opportunity. The USD will one time take a turn downwards again.


 
 1$ converted a year ago will have the same value AED wise today… In my opinion, this comment is not valid for investing in UAE. You will take benefits of USD strength if you decide to invest in the Euro zone.


----------



## chefdude

Freestyler said:


> Existing tenant is insisting on renewing tenancy without agent. Is it possible to renew without agent and what might be the potential problems without agent?



Unless his agent is charging some ridiculous high admin fee for the contract renewal then there should be no reason not to go through the agency. A renewal fee of AED 1,000 on a 2 + bed agreement is reasonable or 500 on a 1 bed or studio.

If the agent is practicing extortion I can make a contract between you and your tenant with the above fees from the tenant's side.

PM me if your need help


----------



## True Blue

UAE Investor said:


> http://www.emirates247.com/property...tate-projects-and-refunds-2015-01-25-1.577902
> 
> Sorry ....it seems the DUBAI government want to show this to the investors/ general public at last...!
> 
> Funny that ....will they show the new book of real estate rules intented for never, next ?
> 
> :lol:


*New list of cancelled Dubai real estate projects... and refunds*

It is nice to see them catching up with Select eventually. Their Aquitania development is now officially cancelled and going through the courts for official liquidation of the project and the company, Spain Select.

According to the laws, the investors can seek refunds "from the pockets" of the developer. That could spell trouble for the front men of the Select operation in Dubai which is still actively recruiting new investors.


----------



## Jet7

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/kt-arti...tion=uaebusiness[/url
Yep it will go down :)


----------



## Rider

Jet7 said:


> 1$ converted a year ago will have the same value AED wise today… In my opinion, this comment is not valid for investing in UAE. You will take benefits of USD strength if you decide to invest in the Euro zone.


What you say makes sense for certain FX trades but personally speaking I would rather wait until the USD weakens to an acceptable level and invest in Dubai property again rather go anywhere near Eurozone property. Even though the rate is the same as a year ago it's still a poor rate (GBP/AED) if you look at charts over the past 5-10 years. 

It's interesting that price declines in Dubai always seem to be accompanied by a strong USD - it was the same back in 2008-09. I suppose the key is securing AED when the dollar is weak and then striking after prices have declined - crystal ball stuff.


----------



## True Blue

Realty values at Dubai Marina up 28% (over the last 5 years)

Staff Report / 28 January 2015

Prices have risen by 28 per cent, to Dh1,670 per square foot in the past five years, according to Cluttons. 

Dubai — A new wave of transport, retail and leisure facilities at Dubai Marina is continuing to drive buyer demand at the beachside location, where prices have risen by 28 per cent, to Dh1,670 per square foot in the past five years, according to Cluttons, an international real estate consultancy.

With the Dubai Tram now fully operational and The Beach Mall offering a mix of retail, dining and entertain-ment just a few minutes away, residential units at Jumeirah Beach Residence (JBR) are also proving a popular choice for both domestic buyers and international buyers. According to Cluttons, these additions to the location drive the value of real estate in JBR, with residential developments like Shams 1 proving popular with investors as they look to add prime real estate with attractive rental yields to their portfolios.

Across Dubai, aver-age residential values stand at Dh1,493 per square foot.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/ins...aebusiness_January267.xml&section=uaebusiness

So the real mid price of property in the marina is AED1,670 per square foot. And yet the new off plan releases want you to believe its well over 2000AED/ft. 

Prices are not likely to rise this year or possibly next, so it's not advisable to speculate on off plans.

I expect the Shams district to be the most popular due to the location in the Chic end where there is the highest concentration of high class hotels, tram station and the new beach front shops and restaurants all nearby. Blue waters island in the pipeline makes it hard to resist for investment potential.


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> I expect the Shams district to be the most popular due to the location in the Chic end where there is the highest concentration of high class hotels, tram station and the new beach front shops and restaurants all nearby. Blue waters island in the pipeline makes it hard to resist for investment potential.


I see that you have been pushing the power station end now for over 7 years and it is still a dust bowl struggling to attract visitors and residents.

Maybe next year will be different?


----------



## True Blue

AppleMac said:


> I see that you have been pushing the power station end now for over 7 years and it is still a dust bowl struggling to attract visitors and residents.
> 
> Maybe next year will be different?


Yeah, but it always seems to smoke you out every time I mention the Chic End. 

Everything I say above is true and even the Mosque fits in nicely, unlike at the other end where it is shoe horned in under your balcony  The landscaping in front of Jewels will be sorted out one day. I don't think that it's unreasonable to assume something special is being planned here now. Especially considering that they have finished the walk landscaping theme in front of Sparkle Towers building site along with many other building sites, but left this alone. Don't think it can be part of the overall contract to renew the Marina Walk so must be a separate project. Watch this space


----------



## UAE Investor

Rents on the decline and not before time!

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...nt-free-periods-this-year-2015-01-29-1.578577

Anyone for a rent free period ...?

:cheers:


----------



## AltinD

Let it go TB, who in their right minds would go to Shams when there is no proper road leading to it and there will be none for a few years? :laugh:


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> Let it go TB, who in their right minds would go to Shams when there is no proper road leading to it and there will be none for a few years? :laugh:


There is a proper road leading to it, but as usual it is being further developed to incorporate the new road to Blue Water Island.

If we think back 5 years, this was a part of the marina that was scoffed at and all because the original 6 end had a musical fountain.:lol: Since then the new interchange on Sheikh Zayed road was formed and the biggest bridge in the marina was constructed with a good link road that takes you straight onto the SZR without any delays. The tram line was constructed which better serves this end of the marina. *Many more new hotels and bars have opened here than anywhere else* and the icing on the cake with the Beach redevelopment has now been opened. All of this is a short walk from and better serves the Chic End. Blue waters Island, the Dubai Eye and the cable car are all coming inside the same time frame of the completion of the new road link. In short there has been $Billions invested in this part of the marina since my original prediction, making it the focus of attraction in the marina. Measure that against the spending and improvements to the Tallest Block end of the marina which is effectively ZERO. The road bridge and links opposite Grosvenor House remain a white elephant. As does the plot of land where the Sky Dive Dubai has been illegally built. Even the length of time it has taken to build the little Mosque is a barometer of interest in the area, in my opinion. The road network is complete and yet it can not cope with the traffic resulting in crazy queues often running back to Tecom. A row of restaurants and some landscaping is all the tallest block end has to offer, which simply can not compare. That is why Shams JBR is becoming the most sought after part of town, because that lies right in the hub of the chic End. 

The Chic End rocks and is just getting better every year. :nocrook:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I see rental yields have really gone up recently in Dubai Marina because of falling sale prices but increased rental prices in 2014.

For example a 2 bed in the Torch can now be bought for 1.7m with a rental income of AED 137.5k with tenant already in place.

That is a gross rental yield of 8.1%


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> Yeah, but it always seems to smoke you out every time I mention the Chic End.
> 
> Everything I say above is true and even the Mosque fits in nicely, unlike at the other end where it is shoe horned in under your balcony  The landscaping in front of Jewels will be sorted out one day. I don't think that it's unreasonable to assume something special is being planned here now. Especially considering that they have finished the walk landscaping theme in front of Sparkle Towers building site along with many other building sites, but left this alone. Don't think it can be part of the overall contract to renew the Marina Walk so must be a separate project. Watch this space


Well its not my balcony, I sold out at the peak last year. :cheers:

But the 'chic' end has never improved in all the years I have listened to you extolling its virtues - I do really hope that something is done down there and it does improve as it has been a downer on the Marina for far too long.



> In short there has been $Billions invested in this part of the marina since my original prediction, making it the focus of attraction in the marina.


Oh do come off it, you are getting delusional now. I walk around that part of the marina most days and have done for years and if you think it is the focus of attraction I can only surmise you are drunk or on drugs.


----------



## AltinD

^^ He did highlight the part of his post about more watering holes opening there, so .....


----------



## True Blue

^^Beauty is in the eye of the beholder 

Anyway, glad to hear you managed to get out of the other end of the marina at the peak. That about seals my case. :lol:


----------



## True Blue

Just read an article about the London property boom. Seems they have made the exact same mistake as Dubai did in 2005-9. Thinking the good times will last forever, so flooded the market with thousands of under construction properties.

There are apparently 54,000 properties in the pipeline in London, mostly 2 bed apartments at around the £1million price tag. All of this supply born out of the booming property market. The frightening fact is that only 3,900 similar properties sold over the last year. So there is a massive oversupply on the way which is expected to fuel a massive "train crash" in the London property market. 

Another classic example of developers trying to time the market and overloading the supply pipeline leading to a massive crash and many on hold - unfinished buildings littering the skyline. 

Wonder if this will benefit Dubai at the start of a new property market cycle on the run up to 2020.


----------



## DavidR

Anybody know what a Marina Heights 2 bed full marina view furnished should be renting at ?

Bearing in mind some noise from marina gate construction coming up.


----------



## True Blue

DavidR said:


> Anybody know what a Marina Heights 2 bed full marina view furnished should be renting at ?
> 
> Bearing in mind some noise from marina gate construction coming up.


New tenant maybe 150k. If you are renewing then you still have to follow the Rera rent calculator.


----------



## DavidR

True Blue said:


> New tenant maybe 150k. If you are renewing then you still have to follow the Rera rent calculator.


Thanks. My tenant is paying 110k furnished and is asking for renewal at same rent and 10k spend on furnishing renewals so I'll have to re-negotiate.


----------



## arfie

DavidR said:


> Thanks. My tenant is paying 110k furnished and is asking for renewal at same rent and 10k spend on furnishing renewals so I'll have to re-negotiate.


You should be able to get an increase on your 2 bed under the RERA rules. I was renting my Torch 2 bed marina facing for 125k and have agreed renewal for 137,500. So you should be able to get a healthy increase on your 2 bed in Marina Heights.


----------



## luv2bebrown

any opinions here on the general health of the Dubai (not UAE) economy?


----------



## True Blue

DavidR said:


> Thanks. My tenant is paying 110k furnished and is asking for renewal at same rent and 10k spend on furnishing renewals so I'll have to re-negotiate.


According to Rera rent increase calculator you are entitled to an increase of 15% taking you to 126,500AED

Personally I wouldn't renew any furniture at that measly rate. Tenant sounds like he is a bit of a chancer. You are still well below the market rate so the quality of the furniture reflects the quality of the of the tenancy amount in my opinion. 

If you want to keep the tenant, offer to renew the furniture if he pays 140k. He won't get an apartment anywhere with new furniture and marina view for less.


----------



## Hamad-

Guys anyone know the price of sqft in the tallest block ?

Any idea abt the pinnacle tower ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Hamad- said:


> Guys anyone know the price of sqft in the tallest block ?
> 
> Any idea abt the pinnacle tower ?


According to propertyfinder.ae based on current listings

Marina Heights is 1,923 AED
Princess Tower is 1,893 AED
The Torch is 1,681 AED
Pinnacle is 1,308 AED

The Jewels is 1,562 AED

Dubai Marina average is 1,920 AED


----------



## Pleth

luv2bebrown said:


> any opinions here on the general health of the Dubai (not UAE) economy?


The short version;
Dubai is blooming, back on track. Never had so many tourists, I read that here were 4 million tourists during Christmas and the entire shopping festival (normal is 2 million).
In fact the government has just changed the visa rules, no more 3 months visas, no more free stop-overs in Dubai by Emirates Airlines, so I am guessing if they can afford to do this which will keep some people away, plus they are putting up the prices of visas, - then the income from tourists must be paying off.
The traffic is worse than ever, even they have extended the roads *massively.*
The queues at the petrol stations are worse than ever, even we have many new petrol stations.
And just like before the recession you now need to book a table in the restaurants as they are full up.
The Expo is not yet paying off, but exports to Qatar are really doing well.

The property marked however is dead. Very difficult to sell an apartment, however easy to rent out apartments.
Just my opinion.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> According to propertyfinder.ae based on current listings
> 
> Marina Heights is 1,923 AED
> Princess Tower is 1,893 AED
> The Torch is 1,681 AED
> Pinnacle is 1,308 AED
> 
> The Jewels is 1,562 AED
> 
> Dubai Marina average is 1,920 AED


Actual sales figures released recently state that the average sale price in the marina is only AED1,650/ft2. Therefore the figures shown above seem to suggest that sellers in the tallest block are being far too ambitious with their asking prices.

From the benchmark figure you then have to consider location, views, and the biggest factor of all, apartment size. We all know that studio apartments have a much higher price per square foot than large luxury apartments. It's all about affordability at the bottom end of the market pushing up the rates.


----------



## luv2bebrown

Pleth said:


> The short version;


Thanks for the insight :cheers:


----------



## Rider

Apologies for going off-topic but the other threads aren't so active.

I'm heading over to Dubai in April and was wondering if anyone has stayed at Le Meridien Fairway (Al Garhoud)? Is this hotel good for bars/entertainment nearby and also transport connections?
I've stayed at Four Points by Sheraton Bur Dubai which was ok but there wasn't much within walking distance. 
I usually prefer to stay at Starwood hotels to get platinum benefits.

Thanks


----------



## AltinD

^^ The GGICO Metro station is near. Not much further away is The Irish Vilage


----------



## Rider

AltinD said:


> ^^ The GGICO Metro station is near. Not much further away is The Irish Vilage


Is the Irish village usually busy at nights on the weekend? Presumably a beer haven for expats?


----------



## AppleMac

Rider said:


> Apologies for going off-topic but the other threads aren't so active.
> 
> I'm heading over to Dubai in April and was wondering if anyone has stayed at Le Meridien Fairway (Al Garhoud)? Is this hotel good for bars/entertainment nearby and also transport connections?
> I've stayed at Four Points by Sheraton Bur Dubai which was ok but there wasn't much within walking distance.
> I usually prefer to stay at Starwood hotels to get platinum benefits.
> 
> Thanks



You could try the Meridien at the airport - it has about 15 bars and restaurants on the grounds and is about a 5-10 minute walk to the Metro.


----------



## Jet7

Re Marina Pinnacle;

One of the worst tower in Dubai Marina, it's already falling apart... I don't advise you to put your money there!


----------



## noir-dresses

Jet7 said:


> Re Marina Pinnacle;
> 
> One of the worst tower in Dubai Marina, it's already falling apart... I don't advise you to put your money there!


Not just falling apart, but the smell in the whole building is disgusting.


----------



## chefdude

Another Tiger development, and a developer to steer well clear of.

They have 2 bed apartments in there with balconies you can't access due to a concrete wall in the way. POS!!!


----------



## The_Count

carpetking said:


> I also think the bubble will burst.
> But i Wish merry Christmas and a happy new year mackie
> 
> :cheers:




The bubble will burst. its till a bubble from the 2008 bubble,


the bubbles did not dissappear from the crash, just got smaller and now its getting bigger again, and this time it will get smaller again

POP


----------



## idontdream

The_Count said:


> The bubble will burst. its till a bubble from the 2008 bubble,
> 
> 
> the bubbles did not dissappear from the crash, just got smaller and now its getting bigger again, and this time it will get smaller again
> 
> POP


But : US and UK will be first.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai’s Real-Estate Moguls Bet on Another Property Boom
http://www.wsj.com/articles/dubais-real-estate-moguls-bet-on-another-property-boom-1423452601

Dubai To Rank Among World’s Top Happiest Cities In 10 Years
http://gulfbusiness.com/2015/02/dubai-rank-among-worlds-top-happiest-cities-10-years/#.VNoyhnlyZaQ

Dubai To Become Centre Of The World By 2100
https://gulfbusiness.com/2015/02/dubai-become-center-world-2100/#.VNoyonlyZaQ


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Dubai’s Real-Estate Moguls Bet on Another Property Boom
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/dubais-real-estate-moguls-bet-on-another-property-boom-1423452601
> 
> Dubai To Rank Among World’s Top Happiest Cities In 10 Years
> http://gulfbusiness.com/2015/02/dubai-rank-among-worlds-top-happiest-cities-10-years/#.VNoyhnlyZaQ
> 
> Dubai To Become Centre Of The World By 2100
> https://gulfbusiness.com/2015/02/dubai-become-center-world-2100/#.VNoyonlyZaQ


Chic End of the Marina is set to become Centre of the Centre of the World. :grandpa:

:hahaha:


----------



## Souz28

Hi. Hope somebody can help me with my question as I can't find any info on that online.
I am selling my apartment in Dubai and have a Listing Agent. The Buyer has his own Buyer's Agent (and actually the Buyer is the Real Estate Company Shareholder). I got an offer from this RE Company shareholder and 10% security deposit was issued on my name by Buyer's Company and they want to hold the security cheque in this Buyer's Company, not in my Listing Agency. My Listing Agent says that it's normal procedure that the Buyer's Agency keeps the deposit and the Buyer will not agree to hold it in Listing Agency and we will have to cancel the deal in that case (MOU is not signed yet, but the deposit issued and my Listing Agency just has a copy of it). So, from my side, I'll just have a copy of a normal cheque issued by the Buyer Real Estate Company, but not the actual cheque. Is it a normal procedure? Don't I have a right to keep the cheque in my Listing Agency?
Thanks....


----------



## noir-dresses

Normal, the buyers agent holds the ten percent cheque, so it's OK to sign the MOU. Before signing MOU try to get buyer to pay all expenses, even the four percent transfer fee, and some will even pay for the NOC. So try to get that all on paper in the MOU because it's so so important start things off right in the start.

Now it's best to have a cash buyer because they can come up with a cashiers cheque very quickly which means your ready to do the transaction at the lands department.

Mortgage buyers are more tricky, and this is where most of the deals fail. Sometimes there could be a clause in the MOU stating if buyer is not approved by bank he doesn't have to give you the security deposit, which in reality the MOU is useless to you. Now to get approved expect a lot of time to pass, could be up to two months sometimes. First the bank has to send some one to evaluate your property, then you wait for the bank to give the buyer an offer letter which is around 70 percent of the value of the property. Buyer usually has to pay the difference out of his pocket. Try to have buyer show you that he has sufficient cash on the side to close the deal.

If your buyer is in the real estate market be very careful what you do, and sign because they know every trick in the book.

If you need additional help, and advice PM me, and I'll Gide you in the right direction. If your not sure what your doing I can save you a lot of time, and especially head aches.

Good luck 





Souz28 said:


> Hi. Hope somebody can help me with my question as I can't find any info on that online.
> I am selling my apartment in Dubai and have a Listing Agent. The Buyer has his own Buyer's Agent (and actually the Buyer is the Real Estate Company Shareholder). I got an offer from this RE Company shareholder and 10% security deposit was issued on my name by Buyer's Company and they want to hold the security cheque in this Buyer's Company, not in my Listing Agency. My Listing Agent says that it's normal procedure that the Buyer's Agency keeps the deposit and the Buyer will not agree to hold it in Listing Agency and we will have to cancel the deal in that case (MOU is not signed yet, but the deposit issued and my Listing Agency just has a copy of it). So, from my side, I'll just have a copy of a normal cheque issued by the Buyer Real Estate Company, but not the actual cheque. Is it a normal procedure? Don't I have a right to keep the cheque in my Listing Agency?
> Thanks....


----------



## AltinD

Now to a more serious stuff: I am looking to rent a *2* bedroom apartment in JLT or Marina with a budget of 110 - 115,000 AED MAX with a parking space (I am not the pitpot market type of guy offering 1 so I can settle for 2)

I've been staying on the same apartment in Bur Dubai for 15 years (from new) and the daily traffic to and from Jebel Ali is taking its toll, especially now that wiffey is also here.

I am a careful and considerate guy. I do maintain things I use, regardless of who owns them. No smoking/pets/BBQing/shisha/housepartying type also. 

noir-dresses can asses the above about me (and my personal integrity) :colgate:

Any offer from owners?


----------



## noir-dresses

I know a few apartments in Arch for rent, I'll look into that for you.



AltinD said:


> Now to a more serious stuff: I am looking to rent a *2* bedroom apartment in JLT or Marina with a budget of 110 - 115,000 AED MAX with a parking space (I am not the pitpot market type of guy offering 1 so I can settle for 2)
> 
> I've been staying on the same apartment in Bur Dubai for 15 years (from new) and the daily traffic to and from Jebel Ali is taking its toll, especially now that wiffey is also here.
> 
> I am a careful and considerate guy. I do maintain things I use, regardless of who owns them. No smoking/pets/BBQing/shisha/housepartying type also.
> 
> noir-dresses can asses the above about me (and my personal integrity) :colgate:
> 
> Any offer from owners?


----------



## Rider

Are you going to share your buy v rent conclusions?

Fifteen years in the same apartment is bizarrely what many owners might not want to hear given the current restrictions on rent increases. If rents go up even further then they are at the mercy of the RERA index and might struggle to get a proper correction in line with the market if your intentions to rent are long term  Wish you all the best with your search.



AltinD said:


> Now to a more serious stuff: I am looking to rent a *2* bedroom apartment in JLT or Marina with a budget of 110 - 115,000 AED MAX with a parking space (I am not the pitpot market type of guy offering 1 so I can settle for 2)
> 
> I've been staying on the same apartment in Bur Dubai for 15 years (from new) and the daily traffic to and from Jebel Ali is taking its toll, especially now that wiffey is also here.
> 
> I am a careful and considerate guy. I do maintain things I use, regardless of who owns them. No smoking/pets/BBQing/shisha/housepartying type also.
> 
> noir-dresses can asses the above about me (and my personal integrity) :colgate:
> 
> Any offer from owners?


----------



## AltinD

^^ When I first came here and rented, there was neither RERA nor freehold and Dubai had just 800,000 residents. The Marina canal was being dug and when a couple of years later a board with 'Carrefour' writing on it appeared where now is Mall of Emirates I was saying to myself: 'Who the hell will come all away here to buy'? 

I don't like moving, plus the new areas were way more expensive and my company wasn't willing to compensate the jump in price. Actually even at that budget big part will come from my own pockets (on top of what company gives, i.e. pays for the rent of the current apartment).


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> Now to a more serious stuff: I am looking to rent a *2* bedroom apartment in JLT or Marina with a budget of 110 - 115,000 AED MAX with a parking space (I am not the pitpot market type of guy offering 1 so I can settle for 2)
> 
> I've been staying on the same apartment in Bur Dubai for 15 years (from new) and the daily traffic to and from Jebel Ali is taking its toll, especially now that wiffey is also here.
> 
> I am a careful and considerate guy. I do maintain things I use, regardless of who owns them. No smoking/pets/BBQing/shisha/housepartying type also.
> 
> noir-dresses can asses the above about me (and my personal integrity) :colgate:
> 
> Any offer from owners?


You should be able to get one in The Torch within your budget. The building needs more careful tenants like you 

There is also Zen tower in Marina for your budget. Easy access egress to SZR but close to the mosque could mean disturbance. I'm just back from Dubai and stayed in a friends apartment with a mosque and Civil Defense right across the road. After a week to acclimatise, neither woke me up.

https://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/search?c=2&l=3.699&q=&t=&rp=y&pf=&pt=&bf=2&bt=2&ft=


----------



## AltinD

That part of Marina looks/feels very similar to where I am currently living .... except mine is more lively and city-like


----------



## ironjakob

*thedubaipropertyshow . com*

thedubaipropertyshow . com

Although the intention of the above event taking place over the next 3 days in London is presumably to sign up future unaware investors, could this ‘show’ be the perfect opportunity for the tens of thousands of UK investors who have lost everything as a result of investing in Dubai, to ask ‘Dubai Inc’ on the world stage: what about us?


----------



## True Blue

Forget the city feel, you have a beach, Byblos hotel with 4 bars/night clubs, the Yacht club and world famous Girders all in walking distance. Choithrams supermarket below DEC towers is also very popular.

Just do a search on propertyfinder with Dubai Marina, 2 bed and 120k max and check out the shortlist.

https://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/search?c=2&l=1.49&q=&t=&rp=y&pf=&pt=120000&bf=2&bt=2&ft=


----------



## UAE Investor

Good look with your property search At ..( on a budget :lol: ) 

Has any one experienced,Pacha Ibiza Dubai,in mardinat ,s Mini Aslam ...( or what ever it,s called)

:cheers:


----------



## AltinD

True Blue said:


> Forget the city feel, you have a beach, Byblos hotel with 4 bars/night clubs, the Yacht club and world famous Girders all in walking distance. Choithrams supermarket below DEC towers is also very popular.
> 
> Just do a search on propertyfinder with Dubai Marina, 2 bed and 120k max and check out the shortlist.
> 
> https://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/search?c=2&l=1.49&q=&t=&rp=y&pf=&pt=120000&bf=2&bt=2&ft=



A beach? Super crowded, not inviting and with 250 AED set of sunbeds and an umbrella? By the time it takes me to walk to the beach there, I can already arrive to the quiet and clean Jumeirah open beach in air condition comfort of my car that I can park easily. 

Pfff, bars are everywhere, the Yach Club is far to walk, overpriced and pretentious, that "word famous" abomination is a nasty place and I am not a fan of the 'lame-excuse-to get-wasted-and-show-off-the-new-heels-and short-shorts' brunches.

Supermarkets? I have not one but five 24/7 of them in walking distance. 

:laugh:


PS: Of course I have been checking both propertyfinder and dubizzle, and when it comes to Marina, La Riviera, Marina Views and even the Diamonds are a better proposition for me.


----------



## AltinD

UAE Investor said:


> Good look with your property search At ..( on a budget :lol: )
> 
> Has any one experienced,Pacha Ibiza Dubai,in mardinat ,s Mini Aslam ...( or what ever it,s called)
> 
> :cheers:


Good luck getting back what you threw away to ghost projects :laugh:


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> A beach? Super crowded, not inviting and with 250 AED set of sunbeds and an umbrella? By the time it takes me to walk to the beach there, I can already arrive to the quiet and clean Jumeirah open beach in air condition comfort of my car that I can park easily.
> 
> Pfff, bars are everywhere, the Yach Club is far to walk, overpriced and pretentious, that "word famous" abomination is a nasty place and I am not a fan of the 'lame-excuse-to get-wasted-and-show-off-the-new-heels-and short-shorts' brunches.
> 
> Supermarkets? I have not one but five 24/7 of them in walking distance.
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> 
> PS: Of course I have been checking both propertyfinder and dubizzle, and when it comes to Marina, La Riviera, Marina Views and even the Diamonds are a better proposition for me.


Mmmm! With such a disparaging view of the attractions, why do you want to come to the Marina. Maybe JLT would be better, only 1 non pretentious bar and further away from the beach. If it is just to be closer to JA then consider Disco Gardens also. 

Nice; https://www.propertyfinder.ae/en/rent/apartment-for-rent-dubai-discovery-gardens-2825953.html

There are a few options on your short list but check the size available and access.


----------



## AltinD

^^ Actually JLT is first on my list. Only the access issue (I hate the loop) is what's pushing me to also the SZR facing towers.


----------



## The_Count

True Blue said:


> Chic End of the Marina is set to become Centre of the Centre of the World. :grandpa:
> 
> :hahaha:


Lol who writes these paid for articles.

Dubai is so behind in the most major and basic things. 

Progression! Human progression is the future. Not a bunch of buildings

The climate. And society and politics will never make dubai the center of the world. Nor the happiest city.

The happiest city is the small town of the coast of Italy somewhere.

Terrible population and a lack of human progression does not create the happiest city


----------



## Pleth

The_Count said:


> Lol who writes these paid for articles.
> 
> Dubai is so behind in the most major and basic things.
> 
> Progression! Human progression is the future. Not a bunch of buildings
> 
> The climate. And society and politics will never make dubai the center of the world. Nor the happiest city.
> 
> The happiest city is the small town of the coast of Italy somewhere.
> 
> Terrible population and a lack of human progression does not create the happiest city


I don't agree with your personal opinion. Maybe you are more a country person than a city person?

Italy?? Where there are no jobs, and the mafia are killing, threatening and controlling? Where people look down on "darker" people from Africa.

Well I will also give you my personal opinion: Dubai is the most wonderful place to live. 
Wonder why Dubai is the place where most people in the world are seeking employment?


----------



## Slimbo

Pleth said:


> Wonder why Dubai is the place where most people in the world are seeking employment?


I'm afraid I'm going to need to see your workings there...


----------



## AndyH

AltinD said:


> ^^ Actually JLT is first on my list. Only the access issue (I hate the loop) is what's pushing me to also the SZR facing towers.


JLTs Cluster O and above have the nasty loop and loads of speed bumps, but the rest is very accessible and no speed bumps. Besides, I think I would prefer a loop (one-way system) and no traffic, to no loop and a ton of traffic at all hours. Take Noir's option of something in cluster G, I literally never get any traffic problems here and you are straight in and out to the parallel road.


----------



## True Blue

Rents is prime areas continue to rise while rents in non prime parts of Dubai are seeing rents soften. Dubai Marina, JBR, Downtown and JLT all registered 10%+ rent increases in 2014 according to this article.

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/where-rents-have-fallen-or-gone-up-in-dubai-1.1460515


----------



## True Blue

Delete


----------



## True Blue

The_Count said:


> Lol who writes these paid for articles.
> 
> Dubai is so behind in the most major and basic things.
> 
> Progression! Human progression is the future. Not a bunch of buildings
> 
> The climate. And society and politics will never make dubai the center of the world. Nor the happiest city.
> 
> *The happiest city is the small town of the coast of Italy somewhere.*
> 
> Terrible population and a lack of human progression does not create the happiest city


The happiest CITY is a SMALL TOWN. :nuts: WTF! :rofl:

Do people ever think before they post? Ever heard the expression, "comparing apples with apples"? hno:


----------



## idontdream

The_Count said:


> The happiest city is the small town of the coast of Italy somewhere.
> city


:nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:


----------



## The_Count

idontdream said:


> :nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:


Well.. you guys are not the brightest bulbs in the room.

A small town with fresh clean air. Fresh food. Low stress.
And green surrounding is a healthy way of living and that results to happiness. For any human being.

Being in close proximity. To a major city is better. But you want a proper city go to Tokyo
That's progression


----------



## The_Count

Anyways. MY ADVICE .
wait for the crash.


----------



## Rob Timpie

The_Count said:


> Anyways. MY ADVICE .
> wait for the crash.


Well 'Mr. Know it all',
Waiting for the crash in Dubai, while investing in your small town in Italy? :lol:
Super market for investors, must be almost as good as Greece at this moment :weirdo:
No idea what you're talking about. Are you in the right tread?


----------



## Alexie62

UAE Investor said:


> No win no fee! ...sounds great or do you want a bundle up front ?
> 
> Thought so, a bundle up front ...so no win you win?
> 
> :lol:


:banana: Haahaa

Laugh as much as you want fyi there are very happy clients whom I secured full refunds for so continue being as pessimistic as you wish. There are seasoned ethical professionals around where this is home, whether you like it or not. Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to take these services. Yes I totally agree beware of paying unfront bundles, but if you had any peas upstairs you would know to do your due dilligence and secure confirmed references from the individual, not just post your sarcastic wit, which is unwelcome.


----------



## Alexie62

There is no medication for stupidity, synicism or skepticism. There are developers who have refunded their investor clients and ongoing just people like many of you who have no clue about these positive aspects, thrive on negativity. Well, hello world, the more negativity, the more resistence, so guess what? You will never get a refund and you only have yourself to blame because your attitude is the problem. Stop shooting developers down many have tried and met their commitments, just you don't have a clue.


----------



## Rider

Alexie62 said:


> There is no medication for stupidity, synicism or skepticism. There are developers who have refunded their investor clients and ongoing just people like many of you who have no clue about these positive aspects, thrive on negativity. Well, hello world, the more negativity, the more resistence, so guess what? You will never get a refund and you only have yourself to blame because your attitude is the problem. Stop shooting developers down many have tried and met their commitments, just you don't have a clue.


That's quite a pitch. Good luck finding any clients on here after that.


----------



## AltinD

^^ Though he does have a point. Being confrontational is not going to get your money back


----------



## AltinD

AndyH said:


> JLTs Cluster O and above have the nasty loop and loads of speed bumps, but the rest is very accessible and no speed bumps. Besides, I think I would prefer a loop (one-way system) and no traffic, to no loop and a ton of traffic at all hours. Take Noir's option of something in cluster G, I literally never get any traffic problems here and you are straight in and out to the parallel road.


My main issue is the finances, i.e. the rent amount, but of course an acceptable apartment size and layout as well. 

I saw one that fit my budget but has a tiny second bedroom, not to mention two huge circular columns on the living room and the master bedroom (though more of a visual than space obstruction)


----------



## Rider

AltinD said:


> ^^ Though he does have a point. Being confrontational is not going to get your money back


Agree on that part but calling investors stupid and saying they don't have a clue is not how I would go about trying to win business.


----------



## AW.

*Panorama @ The Views (Title Deed)*

Apartments in Panorama @ The Views have been handed over between Nov 2014 - Jan 2015. 

If there are any owners here, have you received your Title Deeds?


----------



## AndyH

AltinD said:


> My main issue is the finances, i.e. the rent amount, but of course an acceptable apartment size and layout as well.
> 
> I saw one that fit my budget but has a tiny second bedroom, not to mention two huge circular columns on the living room and the master bedroom (though more of a visual than space obstruction)



yeah I don't like those columns either. A lot of 2 beds here were very large 1 beds which were converted into 2.. some are done well, and some not so well. Good luck!


----------



## Alexie62

Rider said:


> That's quite a pitch. Good luck finding any clients on here after that.


It's not a pitch, I have the proof of securing clients invested funds it's what I do so to each his own, you're totally entitled to your opinion. Since when is everything bad here? The most people who post here have nothing positive to say. Did anyone ever realise that there are investors who win their battles here and get their money back but do you think they are going to waste their time pitching negative comments, then having a party about it and finally, you stay exactly where you are?


----------



## UAE Investor

Alexie62 said:


> I have the proof of securing clients invested funds i


? :cheers:


----------



## The_Count

Rob Timpie said:


> Well 'Mr. Know it all',
> Waiting for the crash in Dubai, while investing in your small town in Italy? :lol:
> Super market for investors, must be almost as good as Greece at this moment :weirdo:
> No idea what you're talking about. Are you in the right tread?


Well right now. 

The crappy small town in italy is a good price. And it will try the price over the long term.

buy now in dubai nd you will lose 20 percent of your money in the next 3 years. 
As well as pay stupid fees.


----------



## The_Count

There is a lack of real jobs in dubai. And the countries is filled with unqualified people. 

The choice is your buddy.


----------



## The_Count

The only people I would say to buy in dubai is g.c.c citizens. As its close to home and they require no visa.

But for foreigners. Go to California or something


----------



## The_Count

Honestly. Dowtown business bay are the only descent places to invest. And prices are inflated


----------



## True Blue

^^Some people buy as investment instruments which provide income stream and potential capital gains. 

I would conservatively estimate that carefully chosen investment property in Dubai can provide 6% net income with 4% annual gains when held for a medium term of 5-10 years. That's a minimum 10%pa averaged over the period. Not many banks offering those numbers.


----------



## UAE Investor

True Blue said:


> ^^Some people buy as investment instruments which provide income stream and potential capital gains.
> 
> I would conservatively estimate that carefully chosen investment property in Dubai can provide 6% net income with 4% annual gains when held for a medium term of 5-10 years. That's a minimum 10%pa averaged over the period. Not many banks offering those numbers.


6% ,,,,a bit safe?

:cheers:


----------



## dave83

True Blue said:


> ^^Some people buy as investment instruments which provide income stream and potential capital gains.
> 
> I would conservatively estimate that carefully chosen investment property in Dubai can provide 6% net income with 4% annual gains when held for a medium term of 5-10 years. That's a minimum 10%pa averaged over the period. Not many banks offering those numbers.


Probably but unlike developed markets, Dubai is bizarre in that the rents (and not just capital prices) yo yo 10/20% up and down - you won't see this in any other major city


----------



## True Blue

dave83 said:


> Probably but unlike developed markets, Dubai is bizarre in that the rents (and not just capital prices) yo yo 10/20% up and down - you won't see this in any other major city


I posted around a month ago about the London market yoyo. Prices have risen sharply triggering a bunch of developers to start building. There are around 45,000 apartments now in the pipeline in London, so my guess is that it will experience the same self inflicted fate as the Dubai market did in 2010-11.

Dubai supply pipeline is much smaller now and the market more developed. Therefore investors can identify the units and areas which are investable. In the past investors would buy anything from well dressed sales staff with a glitzy model and operating out of a Shopping Mall kiosk.

The latest sales fad seems to be, who can erect the largest bill board on Sheikh Zayed Road. Some of them are just ridiculous. My advice is watch out for the ones who's billboards are taller than their construction progress over the last year. We all know who we're talking about :lol:


----------



## dave83

I would discourage investment in London, but unlike Dubai, one can't really expect it to fall more than a few % - 20% would be an emergency but in Dubai a 20% fall is a correction!

But my point was not price falls or rises; it was that rents always stay stable in London and other places (+/-) - in Dubai, one day its 50k, in 3 months, it could be 42k!!


----------



## Rider

dave83 said:


> I would discourage investment in London, but unlike Dubai, one can't really expect it to fall more than a few % - 20% would be an emergency but in Dubai a 20% fall is a correction!
> 
> But my point was not price falls or rises; it was that rents always stay stable in London and other places (+/-) - in Dubai, one day its 50k, in 3 months, it could be 42k!!


Are you referring to Dubai in general or specific areas of Dubai? I have been receiving rental income from my apartments in the marina for 5-6 years and have never seen rent decrease. Worst case it froze for a year and then increased the following year.


----------



## dave83

Rider said:


> Are you referring to Dubai in general or specific areas of Dubai? I have been receiving rental income from my apartments in the marina for 5-6 years and have never seen rent decrease. Worst case it froze for a year and then increased the following year.


Did the average rents for Marina studios not fall from 2007 highs of 75-80k for a studio or so to 45k in 2011? And


----------



## Rider

dave83 said:


> Did the average rents for Marina studios not fall from 2007 highs of 75-80k for a studio or so to 45k in 2011? And


I didn't own a studio back in 2007 so can't comment here but 2 beds certainly haven't seen such such a fall. I would expect things to stablise now given that the market won't be flooded with so many new apartments at the same time like it was in the past.


----------



## sgn7200

True Blue said:


> I posted around a month ago about the London market yoyo. Prices have risen sharply triggering a bunch of developers to start building. There are around 45,000 apartments now in the pipeline in London, so my guess is that it will experience the same self inflicted fate as the Dubai market did in 2010-11.
> 
> Dubai supply pipeline is much smaller now and the market more developed. Therefore investors can identify the units and areas which are investable. In the past investors would buy anything from well dressed sales staff with a glitzy model and operating out of a Shopping Mall kiosk.
> 
> The latest sales fad seems to be, who can erect the largest bill board on Sheikh Zayed Road. Some of them are just ridiculous. My advice is watch out for the ones who's billboards are taller than their construction progress over the last year. We all know who we're talking about :lol:


*It is not right to compare London property market to that of Dubai. In London, it is the forces of demand and supply plus the availability of mortgages which determine which way the market is going to move. To absorb 45000 units by London market is very easy. Currently, it is the availability of mortgages which is determining factor. Demand and supply can become irrational and that is why London has suffered from Boom and Bust.

To my mind, Dubai is very different. Everything is controlled by forces other than the normal forces of demand and supply. This market is regulated and controlled. There are a handful of developers who dictate the supply conditions. Laws of economics do not apply here. It is thus not right to compare London to Dubai Property Market.*


----------



## Jet7

Hi Guys, do you know by any chance who is behind Nshama? They launching townhouses on Quadra Road and I'm wondering if it's worth putting money in their project or no...


----------



## Rider

Does anyone have any experience applying for the new 6 month landlord visa? I am thinking about relocating to Dubai for a few months later this year and wondered if this might be the best route. I would be travelling to Europe each month for 1-2 weeks and presume the normal tourist visa would be no use if I have to wait 30 days after leaving Dubai before I am able to return. Thanks


----------



## scarlet_ohara

Hello Rider
I dont think that is the case
I travelled from Uk to Dubai twice this year
Arrived 28th Jan & 9 Feb
The passport will just display..... Valid 30 days stay from date of arrival
This obviously depends on the country of the passports origin
Regards Scarlet


----------



## True Blue

There is no restriction on returning within a given time period on a tourist visa. People drive to the Oman border all the time and just do a U turn back into UAE.

I had an interesting experience leaving Dubai last week. My flight was cancelled due to a serious oil leak inside the engine. I got re booked on a flight the next day so thought that all I needed to do was leave the airport via passport control. Got stopped and turned around and told I needed to get my exit visa cancelled. Fortunately the staff at Emirates customer service were able to fill out the form in a few minutes and I was ushered past immigration without having my passport re-stamped. When I came back the next day I received a blank look from passport control. When I explained about the cancelled flight, he just handed my passport back and ushered me past. Wonder why they didn't stamp me back in again for another 30 days.


----------



## noir-dresses

Just incase some of you never knew the tourist visa is 30 days plus you get an additional 10 days grace period. So it's really a 40 day visa.


----------



## Rider

Thanks all. I wouldn't be staying in Dubai for longer than 30 days at a time so it seems as though the standard tourist visa will suffice. I just hope queues at T3 passport control have improved since my last few visits.


----------



## True Blue

^^T1 and T3 are back to being chaotic. A good sign for Dubai. The exit passport control is the worst in T1 as they are refurbishing the terminal for Emirates Airlines to take it over. T3 exit lines were quite fast.

The increased passenager traffic through and into Dubai is a good thermometer on the economy in general. As is the traffic on Sheikh Zayed Road.


----------



## idontdream

The_Count said:


> But for foreigners. Go to California or something


:lol::lol::lol:Now you think california is a good place to live. You really dont know what you are talking about. 

You are obviously enjoying life so much in this little no mans land of a small town that you are so occupied about Dubai. You sound like a loser that didn't make it.hno:


----------



## UAE Investor

"unknownpleasure,s" banned by Face last year....^^^


----------



## Pleth

UAE Investor said:


> "unknownpleasure,s" banned by Face last year....^^^


Why???


----------



## AltinD

Fo deserving it


----------



## True Blue

The Euro is now officially in exponential decline against the US Dollar and GB Pound.

Today it is trading €1.075 = $1 and €1.42 = €1

It is quite possible that we could see €1 =$1 by the end of this week. Quite remarkable considering you needed $1.40 to buy a single €1 less than a year ago.

People with an eye on investing in the Euro zone must be very tempted now to sell property in Dubai to raise the capital.


----------



## Rider

^^

There are also rumours circulating that Denmark will follow Switzerland and de-couple it's currency from the Euro. I heard a couple of analysts on CNBC claim that the Euro's decline is set to continue over the coming weeks and months. 

The pool of potential buyers in Dubai will be much smaller now given unattractive FX rates for anyone holding GBP/EUR/Russian roubels. Prices will probably decline further which is good news for anyone holding enough AED. Now could also be a very good time to convert any built up AED rental income back to GBP or EUR.


----------



## sgn7200

Rider said:


> ^^
> 
> There are also rumours circulating that Denmark will follow Switzerland and de-couple it's currency from the Euro. I heard a couple of analysts on CNBC claim that the Euro's decline is set to continue over the coming weeks and months.
> 
> The pool of potential buyers in Dubai will be much smaller now given unattractive FX rates for anyone holding GBP/EUR/Russian roubels. Prices will probably decline further which is good news for anyone holding enough AED. Now could also be a very good time to convert any built up AED rental income back to GBP or EUR.


*You can also look at it differently. Euro has declined nearly 25% over the last six months and this decline is likely to continue. In such circumstances, cash available for investment always looks around for better returns. Investment in Dubai gives double insulation. It is accepted by most economists that the dollar will keep on strengthening. Since AED is tied to US dollar, there is not only insulation but also currency appreciation. There is always the attraction of property as an investment particularly property investment in Dubai giving better than average yield. To my mind there is now greater attraction for funds from Euro zone and UK to move into real estate in Dubai than at any time before.*


----------



## Rider

sgn7200 said:


> *You can also look at it differently. Euro has declined nearly 25% over the last six months and this decline is likely to continue. In such circumstances, cash available for investment always looks around for better returns. Investment in Dubai gives double insulation. It is accepted by most economists that the dollar will keep on strengthening. Since AED is tied to US dollar, there is not only insulation but also currency appreciation. There is always the attraction of property as an investment particularly property investment in Dubai giving better than average yield. To my mind there is now greater attraction for funds from Euro zone and UK to move into real estate in Dubai than at any time before.*


It really depends on each individual's personal circumstances i.e. which currencies they currently hold and whether or not they are taking a short, medium or long term view. If you look at the value of GBP/EUR to AED then I would suggest 'the boat has been missed' for translating GBP/EUR to AED. The USD may well continue to strengthen but the difference between the FX rate now and things 'bottoming out' aren't appealing enough for me as I would be taking a medium to long term view. If you look at charts over the last 10 years the value of AED now is almost as strong as it has ever been. I personally think that property prices in Dubai are still too high right now and could well see a downward correction as many look to exit Dubai and convert their AED into pounds, euro or roubels.


----------



## idontdream

Rider said:


> It really depends on each individual's personal circumstances i.e. which currencies they currently hold and whether or not they are taking a short, medium or long term view. If you look at the value of GBP/EUR to AED then I would suggest 'the boat has been missed' for translating GBP/EUR to AED. The USD may well continue to strengthen but the difference between the FX rate now and things 'bottoming out' aren't appealing enough for me as I would be taking a medium to long term view. If you look at charts over the last 10 years the value of AED now is almost as strong as it has ever been. I personally think that property prices in Dubai are still too high right now and could well see a downward correction as many look to exit Dubai and convert their AED into pounds, euro or roubels.


Dubai and the middle east is where its all happening and yes volatility and instability is part of the ride. Why invest in declining markets i.e. the west.:nuts:


----------



## Rider

idontdream said:


> Dubai and the middle east is where its all happening and yes volatility and instability is part of the ride. Why invest in declining markets i.e. the west.:nuts:


If you get a thrill from volatility and instability then go for it. 

Labelling the west as one market doesn't work seeing as the US economy has been doing much better than the Eurozone.


----------



## The_Count

idontdream said:


> Dubai and the middle east is where its all happening and yes volatility and instability is part of the ride. Why invest in declining markets i.e. the west.:nuts:


How can you say that?. We are in the middle beggining of a recession with out oil taking a 50 percent hit in profit and most governments in debt from over spending.


There is an image of wealth, but the truth is far from it. 

technology is the future. Those who invest in technology will be winners in the end


----------



## The_Count

Back to topic, I like DP, they have good units and a decent track record


----------



## AltinD

Wait ... what?


----------



## The_Count

Does anyone here rent their proprieties on AIR BNB?


----------



## idontdream

Rider said:


> If you get a thrill from volatility and instability then go for it.
> 
> Labelling the west as one market doesn't work seeing as the US economy has been doing much better than the Eurozone.


LOL... you really believe the US is doing well. The western governments are masters at deception and manipulation and the truth is its all based on a house of cards. They have nothing left in the apart from military excursions abroad and that won't last long in an ageing economy. The truth is its all happening in the east.

Oh and I do agree the ride is a bit of roller coaster but one doesn't invest in the east expecting mediocracy.


----------



## Rider

idontdream said:


> LOL... you really believe the US is doing well. The western governments are masters at deception and manipulation and the truth is its all based on a house of cards. They have nothing left in the apart from military excursions abroad and that won't last long in an ageing economy. The truth is its all happening in the east.
> 
> Oh and I do agree the ride is a bit of roller coaster but one doesn't invest in the east expecting mediocracy.


Okay so clearly you're some ill-informed anti-west numpty and I'm not going to waste any more time challenging the utter nonsense you are spouting on here.


----------



## The_Count

idontdream said:


> LOL... you really believe the US is doing well. The western governments are masters at deception and manipulation and the truth is its all based on a house of cards. They have nothing left in the apart from military excursions abroad and that won't last long in an ageing economy. The truth is its all happening in the east.
> 
> Oh and I do agree the ride is a bit of roller coaster but one doesn't invest in the east expecting mediocracy.



You are a fool.

Dubai is built on 100 percent debt....


----------



## The_Count

I gotta say, I was out trying to buy a property today and went to a few developers and agents that I knew from before, and dubai is by far the biggest RE scam in the world.

2400 aed per sq ft on emar properties.... in downtown which is the only place that may have some stability.

U>S is ten times better.

lets talk abotu the 4 percent fee on property you have to pay when you buy.. TAX free my ass


----------



## UAE Investor

What does "AIR BNB" and while your at it "RE scam" mean?


----------



## The_Count

UAE Investor said:


> What does "AIR BNB" and while your at it "RE scam" mean?


Air BNB is a way to rent your apartment daily weekly and monthy for a short term rate.

Its a website.


RE scam means its a scammy system that is setup to scam the buyer out fo their money, by not giving them the value they pay for.

For example when you buy a brand new car for 10,000 dollars, its because its worth 10,000 dollars.

When you buy a property in Dubai it is not worth the money you pay. Cheap parts, high maintinence fees, shady people and agents. Its Low value.

Dubai property is a market for people who like to exploit systems. Those are the people who do well in Dubai. And the result is what we see now, a very inflated market with rents that make people suffer.

I am sorry, If I am paying 120,000 aed for a basic apartment, and I am a Rich guy, and I feel its too much, how do normal people feel? How do normal middle class survive. They cant. They can only get hit for so many years before they have had enough. Without the middle class how will the economy continue.

In addition, half the properties are on the empower bullsh!t. I have to say its the biggest scam I have seen as well. With monthly payments of up to 1000 aed a month. Thats 400 dollars a month for AC. I mean AC is the most important thing to have in dubai and it should be setup as the most accessible and cheap thing to people. But some europeans laughed all the way to the gov. and tricked them to believe this system would be better, or maybe they work together to rip people off. You never know. 

Imagine, buying an apartment, paying 4 percent to gov, 2 percent to agent, property insurance, managment fees, empower AC, electricity. There are other fees too. You ROI becomes crap and you have to put up lots of money for a crap place, cheap marble finishing, I mean cheap. 

Is really disappointing. Because the potential is there if things were competitive, but the developers are ripping people off too. Look you dont have to look far, investigate, use you brain and put things together as to why.

Keep strong guys, thanks


----------



## chefdude

Count a few anomalies in your post.

Anyone that bought pre October 2013 only paid 2% registration fee I only actually paid 1% as the other half was paid by my developer. I previously lived in the UK and they have Stamp duty which is a similar tax on property transactions.

A landlord will not pay any of the utility fees you have mentioned. DEWA and Palm / Empower will be paid by the tenants.

1,000 AED is $273 so not sure what exchange rate you think is in force here

I am on Palm District Cooling with a 2 bedroom 1,300 sq foot apartment the usage fees are virtually nil during the winter and only rise in the hotter months it depends how much you use it.

I don't in anyway condone their Capacity charge that is the big rip off. It's been done as a way of pushing the cost of construction of their facilities onto the consumer and not by taking this as a percentage of their profits over the years but by charging it as an extra. Even more annoying after 7 years the systems have probably been paid for several times over.


----------



## The_Count

chefdude said:


> Count a few anomalies in your post.
> 
> Anyone that bought pre October 2013 only paid 2% registration fee I only actually paid 1% as the other half was paid by my developer. I previously lived in the UK and they have Stamp duty which is a similar tax on property transactions.
> 
> A landlord will not pay any of the utility fees you have mentioned. DEWA and Palm / Empower will be paid by the tenants.
> 
> 1,000 AED is $273 so not sure what exchange rate you think is in force here
> 
> I am on Palm District Cooling with a 2 bedroom 1,300 sq foot apartment the usage fees are virtually nil during the winter and only rise in the hotter months it depends how much you use it.
> 
> I don't in anyway condone their Capacity charge that is the big rip off. It's been done as a way of pushing the cost of construction of their facilities onto the consumer and not by taking this as a percentage of their profits over the years but by charging it as an extra. Even more annoying after 7 years the systems have probably been paid for several times over.


Chef,

I agree, it depends on the developer. I understand you bought before the percentages went up.

About the the tenants paying the empower, yes I understand. At the and of the day i care about my tenants and want them to stay in my property long and be happy. But when they are squeezed by services, they struggle I have seen it.

At this point with the hike in service prices, Dubai is good if you can bypass agent and deal directly with owner to purchase, find a development without empower, but unfortunately you have to exclude downtown if you do that, which is the best area to invest or own, in my opinion.

In addition, there is no foreclosure here, am I correct?. It balances the market. Where do all the properties go when people fold. They are never in the market. They are auctioned here and there, given to agents who bump up the price, As owners we are forced to buy at high prices. Or take the risk on pre construction.


Being from the G.C.C, Dubai was a good chance for us to create a nice competitive market for the whole world. Now we have to wait for the market to correct itself. Should have started right from the start. 

About the empower, honestly, with the price we pay on properties, we should be able to keep the a.c on all year and not worry about it. Yes the capacity charge is brainless.

i am not ranting, Just letting people know that be very careful the investment you go with, It takes time to find a winning investment.


Count


----------



## Pleth

The_Count said:


> You are a fool.
> 
> Dubai is built on 100 percent debt....


???
In Europe every house owner has a mortgage.
In Dubai 95% cannot get a mortgage, it is a purely cash buyers.


----------



## Pleth

The_Count said:


> Air BNB is a way to rent your apartment daily weekly and monthly for a short term rate.
> Its a website.
> 
> When you buy a property in Dubai it is not worth the money you pay. Cheap parts, high maintinence fees, shady people and agents. Its Low value.
> 
> 
> I am sorry, If I am paying 120,000 aed for a basic apartment, and I am a Rich guy, and I feel its too much, how do normal people feel? How do normal middle class survive. They cant.
> 
> In addition, half the properties are on the empower bullsh!t. I have to say its the biggest scam I have seen as well. With monthly payments of up to 1000 aed a month. Thats 400 dollars a month for AC. I mean AC is the most important thing to have in dubai and it should be setup as the most accessible and cheap thing to people.
> 
> Imagine, buying an apartment, paying 4 percent to gov, 2 percent to agent, property insurance, managment fees, empower AC, electricity. There are other fees too.


I do agree with you regarding Empower. I have mentioned it before on this site. Never buy or rent an apartment that is connected to Empower! I repeat - Never buy or rent an apartment that is connected to Empower. 
It is a rip-off.
I rented one and as I moved out I needed my landlords signature so he could take over the monthly bill (standing charges). However he refused to sign so I kept paying Empower for another 3 months and spent HOURS running around from office to office to get out of this mess. It cost me 1,300 Dirhams for 3 months in the standing charges (no usage). 

Also with most places in Western Europe you only pay 2% in stamp duty to government on purchase. 4% is an awful lot.

Count you also mention BNB short term rental. Is this allowed in Dubai?


----------



## True Blue

^^In Scotland the new stamp duty tax will be 10% for values above £325,000 (approx AED1.8M). That new tax was introduced by the pro independence Scottish Nationalist Party. They can shove their independence where the sun doesn't shine


----------



## True Blue

Mr Count, you don't make any sense at all. Every day you post something that contradicts what you posted the previous day. For example, you told us all that Downtown was the only place to invest and today we have not to invest anywhere that has Empower. :nuts:

I also don't think you have grabbed the concept of market value.


----------



## UAE Investor

The_Count said:


> RE scam means its a scammy system that is setup to scam the buyer out fo their money, by not giving them the value they pay for.


So" RE "means its just scammy ,not short for something or wht ever.

:cheers:


----------



## AltinD

^^ He was drunk or something to catch that :laugh:


----------



## The_Count

True Blue said:


> Mr Count, you don't make any sense at all. Every day you post something that contradicts what you posted the previous day. For example, you told us all that Downtown was the only place to invest and today we have not to invest anywhere that has Empower. :nuts:
> 
> I also don't think you have grabbed the concept of market value.


Well,

yes downtown in the best place, BUT unfortunately it has empower to screw you.

So thats done in my book, unless i get some sort of distress deal and focus on property appreciation. Thats what I mean, there is always a catch in Dubai.

RE stands for real estate obviously. There is no need for an explanation.

I am open to hear your opinions. This is my opinion. I am a good business man and lived in many many countries all over the world. So I am not completely making stuff up. 

I understand what market value is. Just because its market value does not mean its the RIGHT value. Some one pulled a wrong move somewhere, whether the developer, the gov. or the landlords.

Would love to hear your opinions and advice.


----------



## Spurs

The funniest thing with Empower is your not allowed to not use them, these guys know how to make money:


----------



## The_Count

Spurs said:


> The funniest thing with Empower is your not allowed to not use them, these guys know how to make money:


^^ This is against the law is many G.C.C countries, such as Kuwait, as stated in certain clauses in the Constitution. 

Forcing people to certain services on their title deeds.

The only way around is get a property without empower. So no palms, downtown.


----------



## The_Count

Pleth said:


> ???
> In Europe every house owner has a mortgage.
> In Dubai 95% cannot get a mortgage, it is a purely cash buyers.



And the developers, what about them?. You think they paid cash? LOL

As stated, dubai is built o n debt.

G.c.c is in the middle of a recession, with oil prices cut by more than 50%, ALL goverments are running a deficit!


----------



## UAE Investor

> RE stands for real estate obviously





The_Count said:


> RE scam means its a scammy system that is setup to scam the buyer out fo their money, by not giving them the value they pay for.


:cheers:


----------



## Pleth

The_Count said:


> And the developers, what about them?. You think they paid cash? LOL
> 
> As stated, dubai is built o n debt.
> 
> G.c.c is in the middle of a recession, with oil prices cut by more than 50%, ALL goverments are running a deficit!


I don't like your tone.
Never mind, you should know better than to mention the oil prices. Dubai has been almost out of oil for the last 8 years. 

But why even thinking of investing in Dubai when you clearly don't like it?


----------



## Slimbo

It's foolish to assume the oil price has no impact on Dubai. Dubai is home to the regional HQ of pretty much every major, medium sized and minor oil service company in the world.

If the oil price causes oil companies to cut back exploration and/or production in any of the Middle East countries, it's jobs in Dubai that will go.


----------



## Pleth

But other sectors are thriving.
Dubai has lots of industry, the free zones are booming. 
Dubai is the new Switzerland with private banking.
At the moment Dubai has higher population than ever. The education system can hardly accomodate all the new families moving to Dubai.
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/mobile/...ionnation_March13.xml&section=educationnation 

As long as Dubai is tax free on income salary and company tax it will always be an attractive place for business's. Specially with EU raising their taxes every day.

True Blue - I cannot believe that Scotland raised the stamp duty to 10%??? :hm:


----------



## The_Count

Pleth said:


> But other sectors are thriving.
> Dubai has lots of industry, the free zones are booming.
> Dubai is the new Switzerland with private banking.
> At the moment Dubai has higher population than ever. The education system can hardly accomodate all the new families moving to Dubai.
> http://www.khaleejtimes.com/mobile/...ionnation_March13.xml&section=educationnation
> 
> As long as Dubai is tax free on income salary and company tax it will always be an attractive place for business's. Specially with EU raising their taxes every day.
> 
> True Blue - I cannot believe that Scotland raised the stamp duty to 10%??? :hm:


Pleth,

What is Tax: a compulsory contribution to state revenue

whats the empower capasity fee. 
whats about car registration fee
Company registration. fee
Property fees

These are all taxes. Hidden taxes. Yes, its not a systematic tax, but their is tax in dubai.

Why are items more expensive in Dubai, because the sales tax are incorporated in the sales. Hidden sales tax.

There is tax, its just hidden.

I am not saying I don't like Dubai, its just not the holy grail as people claim it to be. I am a realist and judge what the city has to offer me based on other places I lived.
Which include:
Kuwait
Qatar 
Japan
France
UK
Boston, California, Michigan, Miami,
Bahamas
Canada
Holland
Thailand

My favorite part about Duabi is the diversity and the the good networking of people.

If you got in the real estate game early, I would say it could have turned out well for you.

But, as current prices and fees and economic situation. 

In terms of Jobs, I would say 90 percent of people are underpaid.


----------



## Pleth

The_Count said:


> Pleth,
> 
> What is Tax: a compulsory contribution to state revenue
> 
> whats the empower capasity fee.
> whats about car registration fee
> Company registration. fee
> Property fees
> 
> These are all taxes. Hidden taxes. Yes, its not a systematic tax, but their is tax in dubai.
> 
> Why are items more expensive in Dubai, because the sales tax are incorporated in the sales. Hidden sales tax.
> 
> There is tax, its just hidden.
> 
> I am not saying I don't like Dubai, its just not the holy grail as people claim it to be. I am a realist and judge what the city has to offer me based on other places I lived.
> 
> My favorite part about Duabi is the diversity and the the good networking of people.
> 
> If you got in the real estate game early, I would say it could have turned out well for you.
> 
> But, as current prices and fees and economic situation.
> 
> In terms of Jobs, I would say 90 percent of people are underpaid.


The tax you mention in Dubai is nothing compared to Europe. Nothing.

In Europe first you pay 40% of your income in tax! 
Then you drive to the shop and the petrol in your car cost 7 Dirhams per liter. That is if you can afford a car.
When you go shopping the sales tax is 18 - 25% and the import tax is 1,7 - 4%. In Dubai there is *no* sales tax but only a 5% import tax.
You heat up your house with oil that has 150% tax, not to mention 150% tax on electricity for your computer.
In Europe they also have car registration fee - only more expensive.
And company registration fee and on top of that company tax, and on top of that a lot of compulsory fees. 
And property fees. And the housing tax is probably the most expensive of them all.

So I repeat... As long as Dubai is tax free on income salary and company tax it will always be an attractive place for business's. Specially with EU raising their taxes every day.


----------



## The_Count

Pleth said:


> The tax you mention in Dubai is nothing compared to Europe. Nothing.
> 
> In Europe first you pay 40% of your income in tax!
> Then you drive to the shop and the petrol in your car cost 7 Dirhams per liter. That is if you can afford a car.
> When you go shopping the sales tax is 18 - 25% and the import tax is 1,7 - 4%. In Dubai there is *no* sales tax but only a 5% import tax.
> You heat up your house with oil that has 150% tax, not to mention 150% tax on electricity for your computer.
> In Europe they also have car registration fee - only more expensive.
> And company registration fee and on top of that company tax, and on top of that a lot of compulsory fees.
> And property fees. And the housing tax is probably the most expensive of them all.
> 
> So I repeat... As long as Dubai is tax free on income salary and company tax it will always be an attractive place for business's. Specially with EU raising their taxes every day.


Ok, you are right on this one 100%. 

Its a lucrative market more business', I always agree on that.

But I am just talking specifically about the real estate market here.

I go on the DLD transaction site everyday to see whats been sold. It's a great service the government provides.

basically its a guide to what you should be paying for an apartment when you buy somewhere.

All I was saying is at the moment you HAVE to look for a deal better than what is being provided too do well wit real estate in the current market situation.


----------



## Rider

True Blue said:


> ^^In Scotland the new stamp duty tax will be 10% for values above £325,000 (approx AED1.8M). That new tax was introduced by the pro independence Scottish Nationalist Party. They can shove their independence where the sun doesn't shine


I heard they are planning to use this additional tax revenue to sort out Nichola Sturgeon's hairstyle


----------



## UAE Investor

The_Count said:


> Ok, you are right on this one 100%.
> 
> Its a lucrative market more business', I always agree on that.
> 
> But I am just talking specifically about the real estate market here.
> 
> I go on the DLD transaction site everyday to see whats been sold. It's a great service the government provides.
> 
> basically its a guide to what you should be paying for an apartment when you buy somewhere.
> 
> All I was saying is at the moment you HAVE to look for a deal better than what is being provided too do well witH real estate in the current market situation.


Would you consider using less abbreviations I.e.DLD ...in your posts as I don,t understand them.

I.ve only lived near liverpool (uk)all my live so....

:cheers:


----------



## True Blue

Rider said:


> I heard they are planning to use this additional tax revenue to sort out Nicola Sturgeon's hairstyle


Yeah, I think she must have played with Playmobil a lot when she was a child


----------



## idontdream

The_Count said:


> You are a fool.
> 
> Dubai is built on 100 percent debt....


Fool you are. The West is built on debt....a house of cards.


----------



## The_Count

idontdream said:


> Fool you are. The West is built on debt....a house of cards.


Yes the west is built on debt, The whole world is.

Dubai is no different. Dont let the glitz and glamour fool you.


----------



## idontdream

Rider said:


> Okay so clearly you're some ill-informed anti-west numpty and I'm not going to waste any more time challenging the utter nonsense you are spouting on here.


LOL:rofl:
So when the truth is spoken it suddenly becomes anti western & nonsense. The truth is always clear...no denying it. Make up all the mumbo jumbo but the facts are facts.

Anyway dont waist my time anymore by replying.


----------



## The_Count

UAE Investor said:


> Would you consider using less abbreviations I.e.DLD ...in your posts as I don,t understand them.
> 
> I.ve only lived near liverpool (uk)all my live so....
> 
> :cheers:


DLD is Dubai land Department

Go to google and type in dubai land department transactions

And you can go and see every property sold ever in Dubai on any time and for how much.

Hope it helps you. So you dont get ripped off when making a deal at a certain development. Now you know what you should be paying based on other sales


----------



## smussuw

^^ 20,000, 7000


----------



## Jet7

Folks, is it the right time to invest or should I hold my cash and wait a little longer as everyone start talking about declining price, crash…etc. You constructive feedback is more than welcome.Thanks!


----------



## Varun124

Jet7 said:


> Folks, is it the right time to invest or should I hold my cash and wait a little longer as everyone start talking about declining price, crash…etc. You constructive feedback is more than welcome.Thanks!


I would start looking for good deals. There are people in the market who want to sell but cant find buyers. I would find properties I like, bid 10 or 15% below the "market value" and eventually one will bite. Start doing it now, it might take a couple months.


----------



## UAE Investor

Do we have a thread for the new hotel construction at Mardinat ?


----------



## The_Count

Jet7 said:


> Folks, is it the right time to invest or should I hold my cash and wait a little longer as everyone start talking about declining price, crash…etc. You constructive feedback is more than welcome.Thanks!


wait until the summmer,

July august


----------



## The_Count

prices will drop 10 percent this year.

and you will get distress another 10 percent on top of that. so youwill save 20 percent on the prices you see now.


I think no one should buy and we should work together to drop prices


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai Properties says Mudon four-bed villas sold out*

Dubai Properties said on Wednesday that it has sold all its four-bedroom townhouses in its upscale Mudon development in Dubai, following strong demand at the International Property Show 2015. 

Launched during the second half of last year, the 120 units ranging from 3,786 to 3,800 square feet were sold out during the event, the developer said in a statement. 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-properties-says-mudon-four-bed-villas-sold-out-587575.html


----------



## Rider

The_Count said:


> I think no one should buy and we should work together to drop prices


Are you trying to start an SSC cartel Count? I suspect it will take a bit more than that to push prices down even further.


----------



## UAE Investor

The_Count said:


> prices will drop 10 percent this year.
> 
> And you will get distress another 10 percent on top of that. so you will save 20 percent on the prices you see now.
> 
> 
> I think no one should buy and we should work together to drop prices


Given that people here hold properties, i would imagine they would want an increase in the value over time, is,nt. your post somewhat inappropriate ?


----------



## UAE Investor

The_Count said:


> prices will drop 10 percent this year.
> 
> and you will get distress another 10 percent on top of that. so youwill save 20 percent on the prices you see now.


How do you know this .....?

:cheers:


----------



## idontdream

UAE Investor said:


> How do you know this .....?
> 
> :cheers:


LOL How does he know this ? How does anyone know anything when they talk from their rear end & give out a stench.


----------



## houshang

:fart:


----------



## Marcus1981

Hi. Can you guys provide an insight as to whether Panorama or The Hills has more scope for capital appreciation. I was checking on Dubizzle for a 1 bedroom and the prices in both buildings seem to be roughly the same; approx Dhs. 1.3 - 1.4 Million. At first glance Panorama seems to be the better option since its ready for occupancy and one can earn rental income from day 1 but the location of The Hills seems to be better (IMO) and there's a Vida Hotel & Serviced Apartments in the complex so there's a chance that the perceived value might be compared to Panorama. 

Your opinions will be highly appreciated


----------



## Green Hornet

Off-plan madness.
Who would be stupid enough?

http://gulfbusiness.com/2015/04/ggico-launches-new-apartment-complex-silicon-oasis/#.VSVuJ_nF92t


----------



## Green Hornet

It seems to me that prices pre 2008 crash still haven't been reached.Correct?


----------



## Green Hornet

The Billion Dollar Hotel (Burj Al Arab)
As shown on British TV last night.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-billion-pound-hotel/on-demand/59915-001


----------



## Green Hornet

Could someone confirm that it is the responsibilty of the tenant or owner if he is living in a unit to pay DEWA bills?Also, if a unit is empty are there anykind of charges the owner is still liable to pay?
Have received this email and service charge for a 4 month period which is double the norm from the managing agents of a building where I own a unit.

_'It is important to understand that these service charges are based on the actual expenses for the financial period. Service charges for this period is increased due to the DEWA deficit bill received for AED 2 million, which had not been budgeted in previous years. The amount will not be included in the service charges for subsequent periods.
As a result of the unpaid service charges from defaulting unit owners, many service providers have not been paid for their services at the building. Unless ALL owners pay their service charges, there will be no option but to suspend.........'_


Why is it that managing agents still have a huge struggle getting some owners to pay?
Have the goverment still not given them powers to obtain the money or confiscate units from owners?
Do most buildings have an owners association who can deal with these kind of problems/issues with the managing agents?

How long before buildings start closing down because bills haven't been paid and there is no electricty/water etc
or maybe no maintenance has meant the building is falling down.


----------



## Rider

The AED has hit a 5 year high against GBP. The inter-bank is currently AED 5.38/£1. 

Could be a good time to convert for those holding AED.


----------



## The_Count

prices are already dropping what are all of you one about.

when you see it happen and you are in the bathroom brushing your teeth.

You will remember this post by COUNT on the forum

The count LIVES ON


----------



## Pleth

Green Hornet said:


> Could someone confirm that it is the responsibilty of the tenant or owner if he is living in a unit to pay DEWA bills?Also, if a unit is empty are there anykind of charges the owner is still liable to pay?
> Have received this email and service charge for a 4 month period which is double the norm from the managing agents of a building where I own a unit.
> 
> _'It is important to understand that these service charges are based on the actual expenses for the financial period. Service charges for this period is increased due to the DEWA deficit bill received for AED 2 million, which had not been budgeted in previous years. The amount will not be included in the service charges for subsequent periods.
> As a result of the unpaid service charges from defaulting unit owners, many service providers have not been paid for their services at the building. Unless ALL owners pay their service charges, there will be no option but to suspend.........'_
> 
> 
> Why is it that managing agents still have a huge struggle getting some owners to pay?
> Have the goverment still not given them powers to obtain the money or confiscate units from owners?
> Do most buildings have an owners association who can deal with these kind of problems/issues with the managing agents?
> 
> How long before buildings start closing down because bills haven't been paid and there is no electricty/water etc
> or maybe no maintenance has meant the building is falling down.


What is a DEWA deficit bill of 2 million?? Did you ask? Sounds strange to me. Ask for ALL the details.
Owners of each apartment must pay their Dewa incl. housing tax, or if the apartment is not sold then the developer must pay it. But as far as I understand it there is no housing tax until the apartment is sold.

The new Rera rules starting from now states that the management company of a building is no longer allowed to ask for a years service charge. Instead they must ask for quarterly payments. This will probably give more work chasing owners for money.
There is no means of forcing the owners to pay the service charge. You can shame them by putting a signboard up with the owners names that have not paid.


----------



## SanjayDubai

*Just bought in Dubai*

Just settled at land department today.


2 things :

1)They would not accept our genuine sale price and charged us their 4% fee on a higher number. This will distort all data obviously.

2)We are bought and everyone paid and will get a 9% net yield in residential (which is why I am buying).


All in all the process of buying is fine and apart from that higher valuation trick, we were satisfied.

Ask me anything if you wish- thanks


----------



## UAE Investor

So its 4% of market price, not what you actually purchased the property for?


----------



## nhinvestor

Any idea how the market value is derived? Or is it just am arbitrary figure someone comes up with?


----------



## The_Count

The_Count said:


> The count is always right


Hello guys, i know you have missed me. As you can see the from my previous post things are going sour as i predicted...

Long live the count


----------



## SanjayDubai

UAE Investor said:


> So its 4% of market price, not what you actually purchased the property for?



Its 4 % of what whoever in DLD decides is the price,

Unless your contract price is higher, in which case it will be 4% of that.


----------



## SanjayDubai

nhinvestor said:


> Any idea how the market value is derived? Or is it just am arbitrary figure someone comes up with?


Because I am investing for income, I have spreadsheets running of sold units in the area I bought in today.

March and April sales for similar units (registered as sold on the Dubai Land Department site) would come in lower on average then the price they insisted on.


----------



## True Blue

^^I would have fought with them over it and even asked to speak to someone higher up. The law is the law and they must follow it.

It is pretty much the same as what is going on with the housing fees, which are supposed to be 0.5% of the sales price for owners. Now they changed it to 5% of rental value whether you are the owner or not. DEWA deposits suddenly doubled to AED2,000. What next?


----------



## Saint_

SanjayDubai said:


> Its 4 % of what whoever in DLD decides is the price,
> 
> Unless your contract price is higher, in which case it will be 4% of that.


What a complete joke. Shrewd investors and good negotiators are basically being punished by a land department in denial and have no idea about the concept of market value.


----------



## SanjayDubai

True Blue said:


> ^^I would have fought with them over it and even asked to speak to someone higher up. The law is the law and they must follow it.



The sellers had flights to catch. Time was running out for the transaction to complete that day. We had already experienced significant delays.

Moreover there was absolutely no room for negotiation I believe. We could have run around for a few days with heads of DLD but I sincerely feel we would have ended back at the same spot.


----------



## noir-dresses

So basically if you find a genuine fire sale at a discount price because the buyer needs money fast/immediately DLD will not honor the discounted value you bought the property for?

Amazing because I'm shopping around for another property at the moment.


----------



## UAE Investor

noir-dresses said:


> So basically if you find a genuine fire sale at a discount price because the buyer needs money fast/immediately DLD will not honor the discounted value you bought the property for?
> 
> Amazing because I'm shopping around for another property at the moment.


land registry up 8 % as well ?

Dubai wants to slow the market down or is short of cash?

:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

The 8 percent fee is not official yet.


----------



## Cayman

*Is this a trend?*

@SanjayDubai,

May I ask what the DLD's rationale behind this arbitrary 'valuation' for your property was? Did you actually buy it at fire sale prices (significantly below the current market price)?

Also, did the valuation they came up with was actually in line with the market price or was it highly inflated (I hope you could answer this question since you mentioned that you maintained a spreadsheet with the prices of actual transactions in the area)

What I am trying to understand is that, if this is an attempt to actually skew the statistics (which means it must be done on a wholesale scale) or is this a one off occurrence since you managed to get a price which in the eyes of the DLD was 'too good to be true'.

Thank you in advance for your response.


----------



## noir-dresses

DLD need to think this through a bit because prices in Europe have dropped significantly, not to mention your getting a lot more Euros for your USDs these days.

If DLD did this to me on the day of the transaction I would of walked away from the deal, and wired my funds to another country. Advice for cash buyers in the future first go to the DLD to confirm they are OK with the selling price, and any additional fees that might of been changed before issuing a cashiers cheque.

Let this be a lesson to any potential buyer to have some form of protection for your self in your MOU. If the DLD don't cooperate with the discounted price you have tried to buy your property you can walk away from the deal without a penalty.

Remember DLD only makes money if a deal goes through, and a new investors has registered the property. No deal means no money.

...and never trust your real estate agents because they will do, and say anything just so they can make a commission.


----------



## dave83

SanjayDubai said:


> Just settled at land department today.
> 
> 
> 2 things :
> 
> 1)They would not accept our genuine sale price and charged us their 4% fee on a higher number. This will distort all data obviously.
> 
> 2)We are bought and everyone paid and will get a 9% net yield in residential (which is why I am buying).
> 
> 
> All in all the process of buying is fine and apart from that higher valuation trick, we were satisfied.
> 
> Ask me anything if you wish- thanks


WHERE can I get net 9% yield?


----------



## noir-dresses

OK I just talked to my real estate team Elysian down town, and they informed me that the 8 percent transfer fee is not true. The DLD where talking about a 6 percent raise before, and that didn't happen either. It's only a rumor, nothing more, nothing less. They are very aware of what that would do to the market.

So if you have any one pushing you to sell, or buy using the 8 percent catch you know they are lying, or trying to make a deal happen fast. 

Once again don't trust any one, only rely on the facts, and rules.


----------



## The_Count

I suggest no one buy. Please wait.

Words of the count


----------



## True Blue

Regarding the 4% on arbitrary value, I remember a similar thing that put me off buying in Tenerife. I was advised that the purchase tax and ongoing property taxes would be based on valuations carried out by the town hall officials. This was to prevent buyers getting away with paying reduced tax due to a depressed property market. Even though the prices were well down, the town officials would tell you what value you would be paying the tax on. 

Secondly, there is another property tax which is applied to expats in Spain and it is based on the assumed rental income generated by the property. Even if you do not rent the property out you still have to pay a portion of this tax if you are not a Spanish resident. So many unfair taxes in Spain. If your spouse dies, then you have to pay inheritance tax on the 50% of the property you have just inherited. This is one of the reasons that people need to sell in a hurry and get their money out of Spain when their partner becomes ill.

Dubai seems to be going a similar way. While doing this they are recording higher values than what was achieved and therefore providing false market data on the strength of the property market in Dubai. Needless rent controls and false property values. Manipulation at every turn.


----------



## SanjayDubai

Cayman said:


> @SanjayDubai,
> 
> May I ask what the DLD's rationale behind this arbitrary 'valuation' for your property was? Did you actually buy it at fire sale prices (significantly below the current market price)?
> 
> Also, did the valuation they came up with was actually in line with the market price or was it highly inflated (I hope you could answer this question since you mentioned that you maintained a spreadsheet with the prices of actual transactions in the area)
> 
> What I am trying to understand is that, if this is an attempt to actually skew the statistics (which means it must be done on a wholesale scale) or is this a one off occurrence since you managed to get a price which in the eyes of the DLD was 'too good to be true'.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your response.



1. There were more then 2 dozen sales of the type of property we bought in April. 

2.Simply adding their registered sales prices together (as listed by DLD) and dividing the number of units comes to a figure 1% below what we actually paid.

3. DLD's price registered was over 5% more then their average in April and 5% more then I actually paid.


----------



## SanjayDubai

If DLD dictate the price the sale is registered at on DLD website, and then use a mean of that data to determine the price they register the sale at....


----------



## AltinD

NeilP said:


> DEWA
> 
> Currently in dispute with DEWA. They refuse to accept anything from us over the internet or phone, will not even send a statement of account. It seems that all Housing Fees are initially set at 5% of an estimated figure (158,000 in our case) until you prove that annual rent is less. Proving rent is less seems impossible as they now say that as our account is an old one (2005) it is not set up for internet access and we have to visit offices in person to sort out. They have now sent outstanding bill to developer threatening disconnection. With all rental agreements on Ejari why can't they apply correct charge. Tenant has always paid DEWA but now refusing due to wrong charges.
> 
> P.S. DEWA will not accept credit card payment to sort arrears as we are not in Dubai.


Yes, you have to visit their offices to sort that, it has always been the case, so why are you complaining when you never did that? 





NeilP said:


> ^^ Had to stop using our Dubai bank account as unable to do full internet banking. Could not transfer money out. Bank card only worked in Dubai.


Do you transfer money out with your card? 

Did you actually check what services were being offered or did you just went with the cheapest one without even reading the documentation or talking things through with your banking agent? 

Perhaps, perhaps you should have told them that you wanted a type of account that allows you online bank transfers and comes with a debit card that can be used abroad, instead of pretending all types would.


----------



## Varun124

NeilP said:


> ^^ Had to stop using our Dubai bank account as unable to do full internet banking. Could not transfer money out. Bank card only worked in Dubai.


I use ADCB, they have a very good online banking platform (And phone apps) with direct payment options for utilities.


----------



## Rider

AltinD said:


> Do you even read what you write?


Yes I do. Do you understand what '100% identical' means? It would have taken an artist to replicate my signature with absolute precision. Most banks use common sense and check that a signature is sufficiently similar to the one on the mandate. Insisting on faxes is as opposed to other more secure methods of communication is indeed from the dark ages.


----------



## AltinD

^^ So, you indeed haven't read ...... you complain why your bank scrutinizes your signature sent by fax, and than continue to add that faxes are easily faked. Don't you see the irony on it? (not to mention answering yourself)


----------



## Rider

AltinD said:


> ^^ So, you indeed haven't read ...... you complain why your bank scrutinizes your signature sent by fax, and than continue to add that faxes are easily faked. Don't you see the irony on it? (not to mention answering yourself)


There is no irony. You clearly didn't get the point I was trying to make. I am complaining about both. First of all I would not have faxes as the only acceptable form of authorisation but seeing as my bank insists on it I have no choice. Secondly my bank appears to be way more ana1 than other banks by insisting on a 100% signature match to the mandate which means that it's incredibly difficult to get anything done.


----------



## chefdude

mohdalikhan said:


> Its one of the most beneficial market within world where property matter a lot, which is extremely expensive although rent are also too much but from the perspective of business United Arab Emirates is outstanding and Dubai is one of the most amazing city within a world so far and UAE Real Estate Market one of the highly standard market considered in world of business today.


It looks like you don't have much experience or exposure to differnet place in the world.

1. Dubai property isn't at all expensive compared to some of the major cities of the world it is infact very cheap apart from something like Burj Khalifa which is currently the world's tallest tower so has a prestige tag attached to it.

2. Try living in any tax free country as an expat, you will find that rent gobbles up the vast percentage of your income so in that way it is on a par with every other tax free destination I have known. 

3. The market here is in it's embryonic stages and still unfortunately has bizzare rules that seem to be reflex actions to solutions. It has un regulated developers that have robbed and cheated people or delivered sub standard promised properties and many other issues that need to be ironed out so it is actually more akin to a casino than as you have quoted "UAE Real Estate Market one of the highly standard market considered in world of business today"

I have lived here for 8 years and seen a vast number of projects here and have also visited many other places in the world so I think I can speak from ample experience


----------



## ianthy

Not sure which bank you use. We are with EmiratesNBD and I find their online banking great. Maybe it's the type of act that you signed up for.


----------



## Pleth

Rider said:


> ^^ *Unfortunatley Dubai does appear to have a problem with bureaucracy from the dark ages.*.


Bureaucracy? Really? Just because it now has taken me 4 weeks to renew my visa (still haven't got it even I paid extra for urgent visa), and 5 weeks to renew my Emirates ID, and then the medical test was delayed because the system was down, and it has taken me 4 weeks so far to renew my labour card. Then the online website access expired so had to renew this, and then the Establishment card expired which took so long for them to renew that they slammed 1,200 Aed in fines on me (!), and then the trade licence expired, then the Mirsal code expired, then the custom code expired, then they want a memorandum and a board resolution every year now which all have to be legalized, certified and signed by the foreign ministry. Not to mention all the NOC's, SC's and BG's I need on a daily basis.
Oh yes and I have now been asked to pay 3,750 Dirhams for a fresh air test at work (Sharjah).
Bureaucracy? Hmm.


----------



## UAE Investor

interesting article here...

http://www.thenational.ae/business/...ty-expert-left-bemused-by-eviction-notice-law


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai property will return to growth path in 2016-17*



> Declining apartment and villa prices in Dubai will stabilise during 2016 and return to growth later in the year or in 2017, a leading realty company said.
> 
> According to Core Savills, recent data suggests that Dubai’s real estate market peaked in October 2014 at levels higher than those achieved in August 2008, and that Dubai’s residential sales market has softened steadily by a compounded average of 1.2 per cent per month for apartments and 0.7 per cent for villas since then.


http://www.khaleejtimes.com/busines...roperty-will-return-to-growth-path-in-2016-17


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> Bureaucracy? Really? Just because it now has taken me 4 weeks to renew my visa (still haven't got it even I paid extra for urgent visa), and 5 weeks to renew my Emirates ID, and then the medical test was delayed because the system was down, and it has taken me 4 weeks so far to renew my labour card. Then the online website access expired so had to renew this, and then the Establishment card expired which took so long for them to renew that they slammed 1,200 Aed in fines on me (!), and then the trade licence expired, then the Mirsal code expired, then the custom code expired, then they want a memorandum and a board resolution every year now which all have to be legalized, certified and signed by the foreign ministry. Not to mention all the NOC's, SC's and BG's I need on a daily basis.
> Oh yes and I have now been asked to pay 3,750 Dirhams for a fresh air test at work (Sharjah).
> Bureaucracy? Hmm.


I'm not sure that you intended for this to be hilarious :lol:

Great post


----------



## Pleth

Thanks. It is tragicomic :hammer: :hilarious


----------



## Rider

Pleth said:


> Bureaucracy? Really? Just because it now has taken me 4 weeks to renew my visa (still haven't got it even I paid extra for urgent visa), and 5 weeks to renew my Emirates ID, and then the medical test was delayed because the system was down, and it has taken me 4 weeks so far to renew my labour card. Then the online website access expired so had to renew this, and then the Establishment card expired which took so long for them to renew that they slammed 1,200 Aed in fines on me (!), and then the trade licence expired, then the Mirsal code expired, then the custom code expired, then they want a memorandum and a board resolution every year now which all have to be legalized, certified and signed by the foreign ministry. Not to mention all the NOC's, SC's and BG's I need on a daily basis.
> Oh yes and I have now been asked to pay 3,750 Dirhams for a fresh air test at work (Sharjah).
> Bureaucracy? Hmm.


Trumps my banking issues by quite some distance :lol:


----------



## AltinD

Pleth's problem with the visa seams to be related to the health test, maybe there were some dubious results that needed further evaluation. Without a passing medical test result the visa renewal will not be processed, and the Emirates ID card renewal will not be processed before the visa is renewed. I don't see the bureaucracy on this.

As for her business vows, all those things expiring are normal with the expiring of the commercial registration. All those required legal documents comes because she works for a business owned by non-resident foreign individuals and or companies that apparently don't want to delegate full power of attorney to a UAE resident involved in the business. I don't see anything bureaucratic there as well. NOC's, SC's and BG's are needed everywhere in the world, sometimes under different names and procedures to obtain, but existing nonetheless.



.... though, most of you are just tourists in here and hardly operates business out of your country of origin.


----------



## dave83

Is it easy renting a place out in DISCOVERY?


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> Pleth's problem with the visa seams to be related to the health test, maybe there were some dubious results that needed further evaluation. Without a passing medical test result the visa renewal will not be processed, and the Emirates ID card renewal will not be processed before the visa is renewed. I don't see the bureaucracy on this.
> 
> As for her business vows, all those things expiring are normal with the expiring of the commercial registration. All those required legal documents comes because she works for a business owned by non-resident foreign individuals and or companies that apparently don't want to delegate full power of attorney to a UAE resident involved in the business. I don't see anything bureaucratic there as well. NOC's, SC's and BG's are needed everywhere in the world, sometimes under different names and procedures to obtain, but existing nonetheless.
> 
> 
> 
> .... though, most of you are just tourists in here and hardly operates business out of your country of origin.


No such red tape in the UK. If you can live here then you can run a business easily. Just ask Mohamed Al Fayed, no residence visa but operated Harrods for decades before selling to a Qatari investor. He was always pissed off that they would never grant him a permanent residence visa. Or maybe Roman Abramovich, sure he doesn't have any red tape to cross to run Chelsea FC without his residence visa. No medical, no NOC, no approvals, nada.

We have just had a budget in which corporation tax was reduced to 18%. The objective was to attract foreign businesses to our country, not make it so difficult that they want to leave. We know that Dubai is supposed to be tax free but the level of fees demanded year on year and "bureaucracy" will eventually tip the balance if they are not careful.


----------



## Pleth

AltinD said:


> Pleth's problem with the visa seams to be related to the health test, maybe there were some dubious results that needed further evaluation. Without a passing medical test result the visa renewal will not be processed, and the Emirates ID card renewal will not be processed before the visa is renewed. I don't see the bureaucracy on this.
> 
> As for her business vows, all those things expiring are normal with the expiring of the commercial registration. All those required legal documents comes because she works for a business owned by non-resident foreign individuals and or companies that apparently don't want to delegate full power of attorney to a UAE resident involved in the business. I don't see anything bureaucratic there as well. NOC's, SC's and BG's are needed everywhere in the world, sometimes under different names and procedures to obtain, but existing nonetheless.
> 
> 
> 
> .... though, most of you are just tourists in here and hardly operates business out of your country of origin.


You are guessing wrong here. No problems with health check, I did actually write it clearly - the system was down. 
And please note I have paid a lot extra as *urgent* visa etc. 
Nothing is done online, so yes there is room for approving the loads and loads of bureaucracy.
One simple idea would be to make a package deal so when you renew your trade license, the establishment card and the online services should be included in this. Well in fact there would be a lot of way to simplify things. 
But why make it simple when you can make it complicated? :nuts:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...p-government-by-next-year-2014-02-11-1.537929


----------



## AltinD

Pleth said:


> You are guessing wrong here. No problems with health check, I did actually write it clearly - the system was down.
> And please note I have paid a lot extra as *urgent* visa etc.
> Nothing is done online, so yes there is room for approving the loads and loads of bureaucracy.
> One simple idea would be to make a package deal so when you renew your trade license, the establishment card and the online services should be included in this. Well in fact there would be a lot of way to simplify things.
> But why make it simple when you can make it complicated? :nuts:


Everything is online here, but you did said Sharjah .....


----------



## AltinD

True Blue said:


> No such red tape in the UK. If you can live here then you can run a business easily. Just ask Mohamed Al Fayed, no residence visa but operated Harrods for decades before selling to a Qatari investor. He was always pissed off that they would never grant him a permanent residence visa. Or maybe Roman Abramovich, sure he doesn't have any red tape to cross to run Chelsea FC without his residence visa. No medical, no NOC, no approvals, nada.
> 
> We have just had a budget in which corporation tax was reduced to 18%. The objective was to attract foreign businesses to our country, not make it so difficult that they want to leave. We know that Dubai is supposed to be tax free but the level of fees demanded year on year and "bureaucracy" will eventually tip the balance if they are not careful.


What are talking about? Those people went and signed themselves for establishing those business, or legally delegated other people to do it on their behalf. Same here.

Once again: The owner of the business Pleth works for obviously hasn't done any of that, otherwise there will be no need for all those POAs she's talking about. Bank Guaranty is just another form of checking credit worthiness.


----------



## noir-dresses

AltinD said:


> What are talking about? Those people went and signed themselves for establishing those business, or legally delegated other people to do it on their behalf. Same here.
> 
> Once again: The owner of the business Pleth works for obviously hasn't done any of that, otherwise there will be no need for all those POAs she's talking about. Bank Guaranty is just another form of checking credit worthiness.


Pleth is the owner.


----------



## Pleth

Dubai_Steve said:


> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...p-government-by-next-year-2014-02-11-1.537929


Steve; this reminds me of the news from 2013:
DUBAI // Wireless internet access could become available across the city under the latest plans to turn Dubai into a “smart city”.

http://www.thenational.ae/uae/techn...ernet-smart-city-under-sheikh-mohammed-vision

At the time I wanted to suggest that they began with Dubai Airport which would be easy to start with and great to have free internet in the entire airport.
It has been two years... :rofl::rofl:


----------



## Pleth

AltinD said:


> otherwise there will be no need for all those POAs she's talking about. Bank Guaranty is just another form of checking credit worthiness.


It has nothing to do with credit or bank guarantees. I am talking about bureaucracy.
I am talking about always having to renew something, here is a few examples:
visas, labour cards, Emirates ID, Establishment cards, trade license, online access, medical cards, custom codes, mirsal codes, authorization cards, payrolls etc etc. 
There are many easier ways it could be done, trust me.


----------



## UAE Investor

Pleth said:


> It has nothing to do with credit or bank guarantees. I am talking about bureaucracy.
> I am talking about always having to renew something, here is a few examples:
> visas, labour cards, Emirates ID, Establishment cards, trade license, online access, medical cards, custom codes, mirsal codes, authorization cards, payrolls etc etc.
> There are many easier ways it could be done, trust me.


Maybe Dubai gets it,s taxes thru renewal fees?

:cheers:


----------



## chefdude

Pleth said:


> It has nothing to do with credit or bank guarantees. I am talking about bureaucracy.
> I am talking about always having to renew something, here is a few examples:
> visas, labour cards, Emirates ID, Establishment cards, trade license, online access, medical cards, custom codes, mirsal codes, authorization cards, payrolls etc etc.
> There are many easier ways it could be done, trust me.



I have often pondered on where Douglas Adams got his inspiration for the Vogons?


----------



## Slimbo

The best one I had was my month old baby's Emirates ID application being rejected because her eyes were closed in the photograph, despite the same photograph being acceptable for her residence visa and UK passport.


----------



## beer51

@Pleth, you forgot to add to your list renewing the rental contract, ejari registration :lol:


----------



## AltinD

.... yes, also add renewing the fullness of your car's fuel tank


----------



## True Blue

^^I would take that comment as accepting defeat :lol:


----------



## True Blue

Slimbo said:


> The best one I had was my month old baby's Emirates ID application being rejected because her eyes were closed in the photograph, despite the same photograph being acceptable for her residence visa and UK passport.


A one month old baby needs to carry photo ID, that is bureaucracy.


----------



## Spurs

Don't forget etisalat yearly registration: 

Dear Etisalat valued customer, your SIM registration details have expired. To avoid service suspension, kindly approach any Etisalat point of sale before 31st July with valid ID documents required for renewing your SIM registration details. Please visit etisalat.ae or call 800121 for more information.


----------



## Rider

Spurs said:


> Don't forget etisalat yearly registration:
> 
> Dear Etisalat valued customer, your SIM registration details have expired. To avoid service suspension, kindly approach any Etisalat point of sale before 31st July with valid ID documents required for renewing your SIM registration details. Please visit etisalat.ae or call 800121 for more information.


Does this also apply to customers on contracts with Etisalat? It's quite common for PAYG sim cards to expire after a year unless you make a chargeable call every so often which will keep it active but this is ridiculous if it applies to customers who have signed contracts and already provided ID etc.


----------



## Spurs

Mine is a contract. I'm a working resident here in UAE


----------



## True Blue

Du were running a My Identity program a few years ago. Everyone on a pay as you go sim had to register their passport details AGAIN or they were threatening cutting off unregistered customers. I have now done it twice as the last time I visited them to change my sim to a nano sim, they would not help me unless I produced MY PASSPORT. After I produced my passport on return, they said I was not registered so I had to fill out the "My Identity" form again.

I later found out that Mr Minit would cut my sim for 10AED, no passport required or questions asked


----------



## AltinD

Rider said:


> Does this also apply to customers on contracts with Etisalat? It's quite common for PAYG sim cards to expire after a year unless you make a chargeable call every so often which will keep it active but this is ridiculous if it applies to customers who have signed contracts and already provided ID etc.


Yes, it is for contract GSM numbers as well. It is NOT bureaucracy, it is a state security matter. They want to know who is actually using the phone number.


----------



## AltinD

True Blue said:


> ^^I would take that comment as accepting defeat :lol:


Yeah, to the ridiculousness of it all.


----------



## HPDubai

My credit was renewed. So I updated the details in the DU website.
The payments however stopped: I had to go to the DU shop to show my new credit card, of which they of course took a paper copy to put in a file somewhere.
Now that is a good piece of bureaucrazy !


----------



## chefdude

AltinD said:


> Yes, it is for contract GSM numbers as well. It is NOT bureaucracy, it is a state security matter. They want to know who is actually using the phone number.


It is therefore annoying / incompetent that they cannot provide the police with this data to put an end once and for all to the scam "Your number has been picked to win .5 million dirhams" :bash:


----------



## Cayman

*Iranian sanctions agreement today*

How do you think this agreement will affect Dubai in general and the Dubai property sector in particular?


----------



## agod

Rider said:


> ^^ Unfortunatley Dubai does appear to have a problem with bureaucracy from the dark ages. I had major problems with a bank there who kept rejecting my signature on a fax because it wasn't 100% identical to the one on the bank mandate. Total lack of risk based thinking and common sense. Jobsworths behaving like robots and not using their brains and being service minded. I tried to tell them that faxes are from the Gordon Gekko era and not immune from fraud.


I get this Nonsense all the Time, a Monthly Utility Bill that I Pay Often gets Stopped, and I then get the Third Degree, As I Live in Oceanic Tower they think I am a Ship, having got the Sense to see its a Regular Payment, My Wifes Name is Joye with an e, of course a Credit turns up Spelt as Joyce, and they Reject it, we are still chasing this for the last 3 weeks, Its a Credit!! not someone trying to Rob me.......No Common Sense, my latest was my Signature needed to be Checked as it was all over the place, my reply was I have a Medical Condition called Eczema, and I cant Hold the Pen Correctly, Oh they said we need to ask Management and get back to you..........Wonderful.

Al.


----------



## Rider

AltinD said:


> Yes, it is for contract GSM numbers as well. It is NOT bureaucracy, it is a state security matter. They want to know who is actually using the phone number.


It is nonsense Al. There is a complete lack of risk based thinking. 

People can buy unregistered sim cards in most other countries where state security is also an issue. There is nothing to stop anyone from flying into Dubai and making calls using an unregistered PAYG sim card from other country as well using Viber and other apps without having a local sim card.


----------



## AltinD

Viber, Skype (on mobile data), Whatsapp voice call, BBM voice call, Facebook Messanger voice call are all blocked


----------



## AltinD

chefdude said:


> It is therefore annoying / incompetent that they cannot provide the police with this data to put an end once and for all to the scam "Your number has been picked to win .5 million dirhams" :bash:


there is a reason there are way more numbers than people here. Do you think they keep the same number for long?




Cayman said:


> How do you think this agreement will affect Dubai in general and the Dubai property sector in particular?


Very good for Dubai's economy in short to mid terms, but when it comes to properties I don't know, it might go both ways.


----------



## Pleth

I have been asked 3 times since November to provide my bank Emirates Bank Business Banking with endless ID's. So it looks like I need physically to go to the bank 4 times a year with ID of trade licence, Emirates ID, Visa, passport and fill in a form saying I am not American. Kind of funny I need to tell them 4 times a year I am still not an American. :lol:
If I don't show up they will deduct 250 Aed from my account every month.
So now I have a problem because after waiting 5 weeks I still don't have my Emirates ID.


Sharjah visas have gone up in price by 24%. But come to think of it, the new visas are valid for only 2 years in stead of 3 years. Which means in fact the visas have gone up by 57%.


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> Viber, Skype (on mobile data), Whatsapp voice call, BBM voice call, Facebook Messenger voice call are all blocked


This is nothing to do with state security. It's to stop them losing revenue in international calls. The rates for calling international numbers are daylight robbery and yet another form of concealed taxation.

UAE makes more money from telecoms than it does from oil. A few years ago I read an article which said the Du and Etisalat are the highest earning companies in the UAE. Their revenue generation and profits are eye watering. 

This is the power of state controls over commercial enterprise which limit the choices available to the resident customers. A captive audience with no real choice over 2 state run telecom companies. 

It is interesting that they haven't blocked Apple Facetime. My brother used a USA contract sim which did not have any out of contract data roaming charges while used in UAE. Very unusual.

Finally, I have experienced real problems with Du pay as you go since I moved to a smartphone user in Dubai. My credit was being eaten at a ridiculous rate so I moved to the Du Easy Social plan on my Blackberry 10 device. Even after changing to an unlimited social data plan, everytime I top up, my credit disappears without me making any calls or sms. I can check my credit every hour and it is sinking. I phoned Du and reported it and they gave me a load of bulshit stories about viewing facebook and whatsapp images which are allegedly not part of the deal or my phone must be downloading email attachments automatically. I changed my settings to load headers only maximum 35kb per message. Made absolutely no difference was still consuming 20AED/day. So I tried Extra Social plan for 80AED and now I can't use up my available data no matter how hard I try :lol: Something seriously wrong with the charging technology on Du's social plans.


----------



## shakka

Pleth said:


> I have been asked 3 times since November to provide my bank Emirates Bank Business Banking with endless ID's. So it looks like I need physically to go to the bank 4 times a year with ID of trade licence, Emirates ID, Visa, passport and fill in a form saying I am not American. Kind of funny I need to tell them 4 times a year I am still not an American. :lol:
> If I don't show up they will deduct 250 Aed from my account every month.
> So now I have a problem because after waiting 5 weeks I still don't have my Emirates ID.
> 
> 
> Sharjah visas have gone up in price by 24%. But come to think of it, the new visas are valid for only 2 years in stead of 3 years. Which means in fact the visas have gone up by 57%.


Hi Pleth The reason you have to fill out a form stating you are not American is because of FACTA (Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act). This legislation brought out by USA has been rolled out to banks worldwide so they can track their own citizens tax affairs. This legislation imo is one of the most outrageous things that have happened in recent times. If a bank doesnt comply then the USA will block 30% funds I believe. Banks that dont comply are put out of business.


----------



## Rider

AltinD said:


> Viber, Skype (on mobile data), Whatsapp voice call, BBM voice call, Facebook Messanger voice call are all blocked


Not when you have a VPN app like HideMyAss :cheers:

This can even allow people to use dating Apps like Tinder (so 'my friend' told me ahem) which are blocked when using a UAE sim.


----------



## Rider

True Blue said:


> Finally, I have experienced real problems with Du pay as you go since I moved to a smartphone user in Dubai. My credit was being eaten at a ridiculous rate so I moved to the Du Easy Social plan on my Blackberry 10 device. Even after changing to an unlimited social data plan, everytime I top up, my credit disappears without me making any calls or sms. I can check my credit every hour and it is sinking. I phoned Du and reported it and they gave me a load of bulshit stories about viewing facebook and whatsapp images which are allegedly not part of the deal or my phone must be downloading email attachments automatically. I changed my settings to load headers only maximum 35kb per message. Made absolutely no difference was still consuming 20AED/day. So I tried Extra Social plan for 80AED and now I can't use up my available data no matter how hard I try :lol: Something seriously wrong with the charging technology on Du's social plans.


This was going on within the EU for many years but perhaps not at the extortionate levels within the UAE. Roaming call charges have already fallen significantly since the European Parliament intervened and recognised the need for consumer protection (a concept that is seemingly very rare in the UAE). The same will soon happen with internet data usage. The mobile companies have had a license to print money for far too long.


----------



## AltinD

Pleth said:


> I have been asked 3 times since November to provide my bank Emirates Bank Business Banking with endless ID's. So it looks like I need physically to go to the bank 4 times a year with ID of trade licence, Emirates ID, Visa, passport and fill in a form saying I am not American. Kind of funny I need to tell them 4 times a year I am still not an American. :lol:
> If I don't show up they will deduct 250 Aed from my account every month.
> So now I have a problem because after waiting 5 weeks I still don't have my Emirates ID.


For that you have to thank your friendly US State Department


----------



## AltinD

TB: Official Apple products in the UAE do NOT have Face Time, same with Blackberry not having BBM video/audio call


----------



## Varun124

*Your Personal Property Investments &amp; The UAE Real Estate Market*



True Blue said:


> This is nothing to do with state security. It's to stop them losing revenue in international calls. The rates for calling international numbers are daylight robbery and yet another form of concealed taxation.
> 
> UAE makes more money from telecoms than it does from oil. A few years ago I read an article which said the Du and Etisalat are the highest earning companies in the UAE. Their revenue generation and profits are eye watering.
> 
> This is the power of state controls over commercial enterprise which limit the choices available to the resident customers. A captive audience with no real choice over 2 state run telecom companies.
> 
> It is interesting that they haven't blocked Apple Facetime. My brother used a USA contract sim which did not have any out of contract data roaming charges while used in UAE. Very unusual.
> 
> Finally, I have experienced real problems with Du pay as you go since I moved to a smartphone user in Dubai. My credit was being eaten at a ridiculous rate so I moved to the Du Easy Social plan on my Blackberry 10 device. Even after changing to an unlimited social data plan, everytime I top up, my credit disappears without me making any calls or sms. I can check my credit every hour and it is sinking. I phoned Du and reported it and they gave me a load of bulshit stories about viewing facebook and whatsapp images which are allegedly not part of the deal or my phone must be downloading email attachments automatically. I changed my settings to load headers only maximum 35kb per message. Made absolutely no difference was still consuming 20AED/day. So I tried Extra Social plan for 80AED and now I can't use up my available data no matter how hard I try :lol: Something seriously wrong with the charging technology on Du's social plans.



The UAE produces almost 3 million barrels of oil a day. Last year oil revenue was 107 Billion U.S. Dollars. Please explain your brilliant thought process of how Etisalat and du earn more than that. I need a good laugh.

I have had a contract with Etisalat on my personal name for over 7 years and have only had to show my passport twice in the whole 7 year timeframe. 

Yes international calls are overpriced, they take advantage of their monopoly a lot in that category.


Edited for typo


----------



## Cayman

Not to defend the two telcos, but the cost of international calls have come down significantly over the past 10-15 years.

I use the "New Post Paid" from Etisalat. You can buy blocks of 100 international minutes for AED 50 and it can be used to call to almost all the countries in the world, except for some esoteric destinations. This works out to 50 files per minute (USD 0.13), which I can assure you is cheaper than a lot of developed countries.

Similarly for AED 50, you could get 1GB of mobile data which for me is more than enough for the whole month to check my emails, reasonable amount of browsing, checking the markets live and also for the occasional GPS usage.

PS: I use an android based phone where I can control the involuntary data usage down to the last drop. I have heard that blackberry in particular eat up your data without you even knowing it. Same with iOS.


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> TB: Official Apple products in the UAE do NOT have Face Time, same with Blackberry not having BBM video/audio call


My brother's Face time worked without any problem. Would that be because the Apple iPhone was purchased in USA or because the sim and contract were from an American Telecom provider?


----------



## True Blue

Varun124 said:


> The UAE produces almost 3 million barrels of oil a day. Last year oil revenue was 107 Billion U.S. Dollars. Please explain your brilliant thought process of how Etisalat and du earn more than that. I need a good laugh.
> 
> I have had a contract with Etisalat on my personal name for over 7 years and have only had to show my passport twice in the whole 7 year timeframe.
> 
> Yes international calls are overpriced, they take advantage of their monopoly a lot in that category.
> 
> 
> Edited for typo


Not really a thought process, more of reading an article as I stated earlier. Unfortunately I don't have a photographic memory. I remember the figures quoted as being staggering, but that was the same year that I got my Emirates NBD card stolen in Spain and it cost me 27Euros for a 6 minute call to the bank. The hotel queried the charge with the phone company and they explained that it was charges applied by the UAE network to connect the call.

Just googling some of the words produced this;



> Etisalat is one of the most profitable telecom organisations in the region; it is the second largest contributor to the UAE’s economic development (after petroleum), the 6th largest company in the Middle East, and the 140th largest company in the world. Besides being the incumbent telco in the UAE, Etisalat operates in several other African and Asian countries. - See more at: http://www.budde.com.au/Research/Un...e-Telecoms-Overview.html#sthash.UCehj3Zl.dpuf


If that is Etisalat ranking on the scale of things then I think it is conceivable that the entire UAE Telecoms business might actually outperform the oil sector considering the depressed oil price. Bear in mind there is a big difference in the meaning of revenue and net profit. Operating costs of oil companies are vastly different from operating expense of telecom providers, so don't mock.


----------



## Rider

True Blue said:


> My brother's Face time worked without any problem. Would that be because the Apple iPhone was purchased in USA or because the sim and contract were from an American Telecom provider?


The latter. These features are only blocked on UAE sim cards and usually work perfectly fine on most non-UAE sim cards.


----------



## AltinD

^^ Once again, officially distributed Apple products in UAE do NOT have Face Time installed, and you can't add it later on.

However, products with Face Time are easily available, but my wife's such phone failed to operate it here, perhaps because she registered with iTunes overhere, in addition to using a local SIM card.


----------



## Rider

^^ There is always a way. 

Next time your wife is abroad she should go to an Apple store and ask them to re-install the iOS software on her phone (after she backs up the data) as she plans to use Facetime in that country where it is allowed. She can then go back to Dubai and at least use it while connected to wifi with a foreign sim if local sims don't allow it. 

While she is overseas she should unpair the device from her UAE itunes account and set up a new itunes account in that country and pair her phone with the new account. 

The only question is whether she should instal future iOS updates while in Dubai as this might block it again. I'm not sure if updates are based on the country where you are physically located or the country in which you registered your itunes account. Worth a try IMO but the moral of the story is never buy Apple products in UAE again seeing as using Facetime is a major risk to state security.


----------



## AltinD

Her phone DOES have Facetime, it's a US model afterall. Not that it's a big deal for her anyway, Skype (over wi-fi) suffices.


----------



## dave83

Back to more relevant property related questions.

What will be the effect of the Iran deal on Dubai property?


----------



## UAE Investor

tony501 said:


> I went to the MED office and handed over the DLD check. I figured if it is made out to DLD then it should be OK.
> 
> No one was available to discuss in detail. But frankly at this stage I would rather have my property rather than worry about the 20 year lease back.
> 
> There is no return guaranteed after the 3 year and I would not want a bunch of ******** managing my property.
> 
> The sites are all locked up. I don't think they have the money. Its gone due to mismanagement. Just think about, it is now more than 10 years since this nightmare started and it appears to be no closer to resolution.
> 
> I just want the property in my name and do as I please with it. You might even breakeven on 2006 prices if the property is delivered.
> 
> My thoughts


Investors in Red Residence and Kensington Royal in DSC have been waiting for there apartment (ten years)...yet the sites have stopped and contractors left ....Yet Dubai still wants them to register there 4%

:cheers:


----------



## Viv

BOUNCED CHEQUE

Hi guys,
My tenant's cheque bounced - first time this has happened to me since 2008 with the few different tenants that have occupied my apt AND at the worst time of all - tenancy just got renewed and I really needed the first instalment to help me with a new investment I am making in the UK...really bad timing... 

Anyway, my agents are managing the situation and advise that after waiting the necessary time, informing the Police and going thru the rent committee, if the worse should happen, it could take 4 months to re-occupy the apt.

I really wanted to know if anyone else is willing to share any similar episode(s) that they have encountered - what procedure(s) did you follow, any "short-cuts" that may be available, how long it took etc. etc ..

The current tenant was OK last year - hopefully, he will be in contact and the situation will be resolved soon but I'll just have to wait and see..

Thanks in advance for anyone willing to share their experiences or just to provide general information on the matter..


----------



## chefdude

Viv said:


> BOUNCED CHEQUE
> 
> Hi guys,
> My tenant's cheque bounced - first time this has happened to me since 2008 with the few different tenants that have occupied my apt AND at the worst time of all - tenancy just got renewed and I really needed the first instalment to help me with a new investment I am making in the UK...really bad timing...
> 
> Anyway, my agents are managing the situation and advise that after waiting the necessary time, informing the Police and going thru the rent committee, if the worse should happen, it could take 4 months to re-occupy the apt.
> 
> I really wanted to know if anyone else is willing to share any similar episode(s) that they have encountered - what procedure(s) did you follow, any "short-cuts" that may be available, how long it took etc. etc ..
> 
> The current tenant was OK last year - hopefully, he will be in contact and the situation will be resolved soon but I'll just have to wait and see..
> 
> Thanks in advance for anyone willing to share their experiences or just to provide general information on the matter..



Why don't you just call him directly yourself and ask what has happened? Perhaps he has forgotten to transfer the money from Savings to Current account. A 10 minuite phone call may resolve the situation instead of weeks of red tape


----------



## True Blue

I had a bounced rent cheque once and when I contacted the tenant he apologised and went to my branch and paid in the cash directly. It may be the bank which is misbehaving and claiming signature discrepancies again. Getting more common.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> There seems to be a concentration of licensed restaurants and bars forming in the Chic end of the Marina. It's now possible to do a pub crawl without the need for a taxi :cheers:
> 
> I wonder how that will affect the property prices in this area


So you mean the arse end will soon look like this?

:slap::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::booze::booze::madwife::tyty:cheers:dead::slap:

Might not be good for prices :dead:

:madwife: :dead:


----------



## AltinD

^^ His preferred place Gritter, or whatever the hell is named, already does uke:


----------



## True Blue

^^ What's with all the sour grapes guys???? 

And the big wheel keeps on coming :lol: 

:tyty: Chic Chic, Chic-ety Chic :banana:

:smug:


----------



## Spurs

Smith and Ken Real Estate have supposedly been shut down by RERA - for breaking RERA rules. I just tried to call there main office number and the phones are off. Anyone no is this is true and if so what the reason is?


----------



## Viv

*Bounced cheque*



chefdude said:


> Why don't you just call him directly yourself and ask what has happened? Perhaps he has forgotten to transfer the money from Savings to Current account. A 10 minuite phone call may resolve the situation instead of weeks of red tape


Maybe I have just been lucky or 'blind' (depending upon your point of view) but since 2008, my agents have always let my apt on time, completed any remedial work, painting, small leaks, air con etc and paid me promptly. In short, they have managed the full rental so all I have ever done is sign a rental contract - other than the tenant(s) name, I've never known anything else about them (isn't that the purpose of having an agent?)

For this problem in particular, the agents have been trying to contact the tenant by phone but have been unsuccessful...so far. As mention previously, this is the start of the second yr - last full yr for payments were OK by the tenant (but I realize situations can and do change).

Thanks for your input - its good to understand other people's experiences.


----------



## tony501

*Same Problem with my tenant Movenpick IFA Resorts*



Viv said:


> Maybe I have just been lucky or 'blind' (depending upon your point of view) but since 2008, my agents have always let my apt on time, completed any remedial work, painting, small leaks, air con etc and paid me promptly. In short, they have managed the full rental so all I have ever done is sign a rental contract - other than the tenant(s) name, I've never known anything else about them (isn't that the purpose of having an agent?)
> 
> For this problem in particular, the agents have been trying to contact the tenant by phone but have been unsuccessful...so far. As mention previously, this is the start of the second yr - last full yr for payments were OK by the tenant (but I realize situations can and do change).
> 
> Thanks for your input - its good to understand other people's experiences.


I also have a guaranteed payment agreement with IFA Hotel and Resorts Movenpick Hotels. They do not pay. Many people with this tenancy agreement are also not getting paid. No bounced cheque though??


----------



## JarvisNector

uae is beautiful


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> Ok, I didn't realise that it was being refurbished. Doesn't really pop to the top of your list of possibilities when you consider how new the place was. I just saw it boarded up around the same time as the new one opened on JBR Walk and made a more logical assumption.


This is what puzzles me, every single shop in that end of Dubai Marina Mall has been renovated. Sephora was closed for 2 months (!), Al Jaber souvenir shop, Gourmet Burger, Grand Store, Vision Express etc. all of them have been closed for lengthy renovations. The mall is quite new so it seems a bit strange?


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> This is what puzzles me, every single shop in that end of Dubai Marina Mall has been renovated. Sephora was closed for 2 months (!), Al Jaber souvenir shop, Gourmet Burger, Grand Store, Vision Express etc. all of them have been closed for lengthy renovations. The mall is quite new so it seems a bit strange?


That seems strange that they all had to be redone. Maybe it's more than a refurb, maybe they had a structural problem that needed attention. The mall was built in a big hurry. Of course, I'm just trying to make sense of it all and speculating.


----------



## AltinD

The mall was built in a hurry? I don't recall any of that.


----------



## agod

Pleth said:


> This is what puzzles me, every single shop in that end of Dubai Marina Mall has been renovated. Sephora was closed for 2 months (!), Al Jaber souvenir shop, Gourmet Burger, Grand Store, Vision Express etc. all of them have been closed for lengthy renovations. The mall is quite new so it seems a bit strange?


Most of them are Franchises, and I believe its a condition of there Leases, that they have to Renovate every so many Years normally 5, these busy Restaurants normally wear out pretty quickly as well, seats worn and torn, Kitchen Equipment Knackered, Carlucis in the Marina is always busy, and the one at JBR, had no one in it, just the Girl outside shoving the Menu up your Nose.

Al


----------



## agod

Spurs said:


> Smith and Ken Real Estate have supposedly been shut down by RERA - for breaking RERA rules. I just tried to call there main office number and the phones are off. Anyone no is this is true and if so what the reason is?


They dont have a good Reputation anyway, just Google it.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/smith-ken-extremely-poor-service-c730082.html 

Al.


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

agod said:


> They dont have a good Reputation anyway, just Google it.
> 
> http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/smith-ken-extremely-poor-service-c730082.html
> 
> Al.


They did a runner with AED51 mil, office down closed last week, at least according to the National newspaper....

http://www.thenational.ae/uae/dubai-police-investigate-vandalism-at-property-firm-following-closure


----------



## True Blue

^^They won't be the last. It's getting cut throat out there. 

I'm getting agents knocking my door now as they are struggling to find decent properties for their clients. So much of the stock in Dubai is now in poor and rundown condition after only 3 or 4 years of tenanting. Landlords are not willing to spend money and time keeping them up to scratch.


----------



## chefdude

True Blue said:


> ^^They won't be the last. It's getting cut throat out there.
> 
> I'm getting agents knocking my door now as they are struggling to find decent properties for their clients. So much of the stock in Dubai is now in poor and rundown condition after only 3 or 4 years of tenanting. Landlords are not willing to spend money and time keeping them up to scratch.


Agreed its a very short sighted mistake to make. These are pretty sizeable investments in anyone's books so simply letting them deteriorate year on year is like flushing your cash down the toilet.

They should be brought back to new condition after each tenancy


----------



## Pleth

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> They did a runner with AED51 mil, office down closed last week, at least according to the National newspaper....
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/uae/dubai-police-investigate-vandalism-at-property-firm-following-closure


Marks Falcon did the same runner some years ago.
This year we saw the kitchen re-modeler Under One Roof do the runner too.


----------



## ianthy

S&K were one of the worse agents with sharp practices for both the tenant and the landlord. Dubai really needs to clean up the market and do more to chase out this type of agent. They just damage the name and brand of UAE. 

TrueBlue is right regarding the quality of apts. Agents and owners for years have done nothing to keep/upgrade apts - just taken the annual rent cheque. In a normal rental market you would accept some maintenance and then to refresh the apt every couple of years or so. In Dubai this rarely seems to happen as rents have risen Landlords and agents have enjoyed the benefit. I read that rents have fallen and if there is plenty of supply, then tenants will become more discerning regarding the apt and general condition etc., which will reward those landlords that keep their apts in good condition.


----------



## UAE Investor

True Blue said:


> Without reading the report, I would comment that Dubai has not had any incidents of terrorism unlike New York, London and even Glasgow. Despite numerous terror attacks in NY and London, prices are rising faster than most other major cities that have not been hit by terrorist activity.


Hope your right scotty?

Be in Dubai 16/26 August onwards Holiday..ing in mardinat Jumirah,the usual.

Any ideas for a great last night we are eleven people.what ever please pm me !

Not that i trust you all !!!!

Will do a full DSC update while i,m there also

:cheers:


----------



## dave83

True Blue - when will Dubai stop falling?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> Police are telling security guards to ask for ID before letting visitors enter an apartment block. When I get asked by a security guard for ID, I just politely tell them to eff off. I just remind them that they are not Police officers and have no real power or legal authority to insist on seeing my ID. It is all getting a bit OTT.


Very irresponsible of you! I think security guards need additional powers to implement better security for all buildings given the growing amount of nutters around.


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Very irresponsible of you! I think security guards need additional powers to implement better security for all buildings given the growing amount of nutters around.


The nutters don't have ID?

From the pictures taken by idiots at the top of Torch Tower holding selfie sticks and balancing off the spire, I think it is clear that your average security guard can be bought for 50AED. More power would just encourage more corruption.

Security guards do not have legal powers to collect my personal data, so they don't get it. End of!


----------



## True Blue

dave83 said:


> True Blue - when will Dubai stop falling?


I think Dubai is fairly stable at this point. some areas may be falling but some are increasing. In a mature market there are buyers waiting for a specific property to come to the market, whether it is a signature villa mediterranean style on the Palm or a dual aspect marina and sea view 2 bed apartment in Dorrabay.


----------



## True Blue

UAE Investor said:


> Hope your right scotty?
> 
> Be in Dubai 16/26 August onwards Holiday..ing in mardinat Jumirah,the usual.
> 
> Any ideas for a great last night we are eleven people.what ever please pm me !
> 
> Not that i trust you all !!!!
> 
> :cheers:


Check www.timeoutdubai.com for the date of your last night. Some places actually do a midweek brunch.

The Stereo Arcade I mentioned above in Hilton DoubleTree in the Chic end, was mobbed when I visited it recently.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*mortgage transactions finally overtook cash transactions during the first half of the year*



> Dubai Land Department (DLD) has announced that the total amount of real estate transactions recorded in the emirate in the first six months of 2015 reached Dh129 billion ($35 billion).
> 
> This is over 15 per cent more than the Dh113bn in transactions recorded in the same half of last year.


http://www.emirates247.com/business...gages-overtake-cash-deals-2015-07-27-1.598184


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> I just politely tell them to eff off. :madwife:


Typical behaviour from someone that lives in the arse end.


----------



## True Blue

^^How's that Bill of Quantities coming along?


----------



## NeilP

Still have a question on what taxes do landlords now pay if short-term letting with licensed agent. Who is liable for 10% tax on each short-term let? believe it is agent but does renter pay it like VAT in Europe. Then there is DEWA Housing Fee, does that stop? and of course there is fee to get a rental license and a fee for each bedroom each year like hotels.

Confused !!! I Am.

Anybody have the facts please. especially n Housing Fee if short-term letting.

Thanks somebody


----------



## True Blue

If short term letting the housing fees will still have to be paid along with the DEWA as normal. In a long term let DEWA check the rental contract and apply 5% of the tenancy but in a short term contract the DEWA must be registered to the owner or the letting agent. In which case DM will apply an average housing fee for the unit type in your area. As we have explained before, they normally overestimate it at first and then reduce it after you complain in person.

I originally paid housing fees of 288AED/month and then it shot up to 540AED/month. After I complained they brought it back to 335AED/month. They also backdated the reduction by 2 months.

The short term taxes should be collected by the agent from the guests. Same as in a hotel where the 10% hotel charge + 10% DM fee is added to your bill. Hotel guests also pay a stupid check in fee based on how many stars the hotel has and how many nights you stay.


----------



## Pleth

IMO people should be allowed to share an apartment. 
How many singles can afford to pay 45,000 Aed a year in rent? Not all.


----------



## Pleth

New city with ski slope and water fountain on the drawing table.
http://7days.ae/dubai-meydan-one-pr...idential-tower-longest-indoor-ski-slope/67799
Meydan


----------



## NeilP

Thanks True Blue

Was it once said Dubai is tax free. 

In short:

Housing Fee (5% or whatever)= Tax
Rental licence fee = Tax
Bedroom fee = Tax
Holiday Rental Tax = Tax
Then it is unearned income tax in the UK

And we are greedy landlords ripping everybody off ???? Perhaps Dubai authorities are just as bad.


----------



## UAE Investor

NeilP said:


> Thanks True Blue
> 
> Was it once said Dubai is tax free. We then we have to pay tax in UK on net rental income.
> 
> In short:
> 
> Housing Fee (5% or whatever)= Tax
> Rental licence fee = Tax
> Bedroom fee = Tax
> Rental Tax = Tax
> 
> And we are greedy landlords ripping everybody off ????



Well no, you are not ripping every one off, just making it near impossible for our future children to get on the housing market unless they have excellent salaries,which are few and far between.


:cheers:


----------



## beer51

Would you pay *£715k for a studio flat in a London tower block?* The Versace-designed flats that cost more than an eight-bed mansion in Devon...

AYKON Nine Elms set to be built by end of 2019
Studio flats start from £715k - and three-bed £4m

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/mo...-Elms-flats-cost-eight-bed-mansion-Devon.html


----------



## UAE Investor

Difference is London is,nt surrounded by land made of sand that hardly nobody wants.

:cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> ^^How's that Bill of Quantities coming along?


Currently all the main contractors who were invited have been on site for the tender process and we are in the final stages waiting for their bids to arrive.  

How is your hang over? :crazy2:


----------



## Pleth

UAE Investor said:


> Difference is London is, not surrounded by land made of sand that hardly nobody wants.
> 
> :cheers:


Excuse me, what is London? A rainy place with high taxes and high VAT. You can't even drive to it without entering a gate to pay more (congestion) tax. 
Even if you can afford a car you cannot afford a parking place. 
The public transport is very expensive, dirty and overcrowded.

London is being flooded with illegal emigrants through the Euro Tunnel. I predict there will be a food shortage soon as no transport company will go through the Euro Tunnel, and the French ferry workers are on strike. 
London is in turmoil. 

Dubai don't share any of the above.


----------



## dave83

Pleth said:


> Excuse me, what is London? A rainy place with high taxes and high VAT. You can't even drive to it without entering a gate to pay more (congestion) tax.
> Even if you can afford a car you cannot afford a parking place.
> The public transport is very expensive, dirty and overcrowded.
> 
> London is being flooded with illegal emigrants through the Euro Tunnel. I predict there will be a food shortage soon as no transport company will go through the Euro Tunnel, and the French ferry workers are on strike.
> London is in turmoil.
> 
> Dubai don't share any of the above.


I find it hilarious and self-deluding when people compare Dubai to London and try to prove the former will be a longer-term better investment. There has always been a severe imabalance between demand and supply in London - there never has (for longer than a short period) and never will be in a land where u can keep building (Dubai)

Nuff said


----------



## beer51

No worries, this time i will lend the money and in return they can rename Meydan 1 to beer 1, drinks are on me cheers :cheers:


----------



## True Blue

dubayyy said:


> Hi TB
> 
> Do you have a link to this report?
> 
> Thanks


No, It was a while ago. I was actually surprised to read that Emaar had raised finance through British banks to finish Burj Khalifa. There was a story going around that is was bailed out by Abu Dhabi. When Dubai defaulted on their debt repayment, a senior British politician (Lord Peter Mandelson)was sent over to find out what was happening and obtain reassurances that the banks would be paid.

Christine LeGrand had to do a similar trip to protect French interests after Dubai defaulted on payments for its stricken Tram system. This led to a 2 year suspension of works and a redesign.

I hope Dubai will be able to sustain growth beyond 2020. They tell us Nakheel and DP have returned to profit, but I'm not convinced. UAE seems to be facing a testing period ahead.


----------



## UAE Investor

True Blue said:


> No, It was a while ago. I was actually surprised to read that Emaar had raised finance through British banks to finish Burj Khalifa. There was a story going around that is was bailed out by Abu Dhabi. When Dubai defaulted on their debt repayment, a senior British politician was sent over to find out what was happening and obtain reassurances that the banks would be paid.
> 
> Christine LeGrand had to do a similar trip to protect French interests after Dubai defaulted on payments for its stricken Tram system. This led to a 2 year suspension of works and a redesign.
> 
> I hope Dubai will be able to sustain growth beyond 2020. They tell us Nakheel and DP have returned to profit, but I'm not convinced. UAE seems to be facing a testing period ahead.


^^

Does Dubai have the where with all to complete infrastructure ...only investment from overseas investors or foreign banks?

Just look at Dubai Sports City...they need money to fill the canal with sea water!

http://www.thenational.ae/opinion/editorial/tax-change-is-necessary-to-diversify-uaes-economy

:cheers:


----------



## True Blue

dubayyy said:


> Hi TB
> 
> Do you have a link to this report?
> 
> Thanks


I just remembered the politician's name who chased up DP world for unpaid debts owed to British Banks and companies. When you read the reports you can see that the idea that Dubai and the UAE funded their own growth is a myth.

Google Lord Peter Mandelson Dubai, and take your pick of the reports.


----------



## chefdude

Perhaps its time the UAE stopped spoon feeding its citizens by giving free houses and subsidised utilities and encourage them to pay for things the same way the rest of the population here does? That would shave a tidy amount off the liabilities column and would end the them and us culture


----------



## UAE Investor

Dubai Government then says to uk/world banks how they will pay back!


----------



## UAE Investor

Slightly off topic i have a dinner date on the world

Hope to meet the owner,probably discuss my world island failure there too..

In fact i think the guy that started the beach club got his idea from my original thought!

I wonder if any of you remember ,probably not ..as non of you showed any (faith/investment) sorry interest in my off plan called BECC..( beach Eco caravan club..)

It was Eco because we could,nt afford the sewage plant!

:cheers:


----------



## Pleth

chefdude said:


> Perhaps its time the UAE stopped spoon feeding its citizens by giving free houses and subsidised utilities and encourage them to pay for things the same way the rest of the population


You mean "the rest of the world" :lol:


----------



## chefdude

Pleth said:


> You mean "the rest of the world" :lol:


One step at a time Pleth, One Step!


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> I hope Dubai will be able to sustain growth beyond 2020. They tell us Nakheel and DP have returned to profit, but I'm not convinced. UAE seems to be facing a testing period ahead.


To sustain the growth I think they will need to keep Dubai tax-free and attractive to investors. 
Just like Gibraltar was booming at one stage (before EU closed them down  )

I noticed in your article TB that it said "Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed outlined a strategy for the UAE economy without oil within 50 years."

If the UAE wants to introduce VAT and taxes, then they need something else to attract expats and investors after 2020 otherwise it could be the end...

We see from Greece, Spain and Italy that tourism cannot save the country's economy.


----------



## True Blue

^^Agreed. The other thing we are seeing is that countries began to realise that low taxation attracts business and boosts the economy. That low business taxation strategy saved Ireland and was noted by the UK government who reduced corporation tax from 30% down to 20%. The UK now has the fastest growing economy in the developed world. I also read that increasing income tax actually reduces the amount of tax collected. This is the real reason why the UK Conservative government will not adopt the 50% income tax band. Data released by HMRC covering the last 50 years showed more tax was collected in the years where taxation was lowest and receipts dropped suddenly when tax was increased. In summary it has been proven that people do not mind paying their fair share of taxes to help society and be part of the community. 

Most expats will not co operate with increased taxes and fees if they feel they are being penalised while others live off their backs for free. When the indigenous population are not paying charges and fees and expats are, that constitutes a form of welfare provided by the expat. The people benefiting from the welfare are not necessarily poor either. This is where society begins to break down and taxpayers begin to revolt at the level of taxes and subsidies that they are providing to a system which will give them nothing in return. Given that there are 9 expats for every Emerati, there could be serious consequences for the region if they do not begin to level the playing field soon.


----------



## noir-dresses

It's been a week of sadness in Croatia regarding the tragedy that happened to one of our citizens in Egypt a few days ago. A few of us that live, work, or have holiday homes in the UAE have had in depth conversations regarding this problem in the whole region, and I honestly think this is the biggest problem the UAE will have in the future.

We realized what good are jobs, real estate, etc, etc if you just don't feel safe. Every thing is fine, and dandy until reality of how unsafe the whole MENA region is.

Food for thought.


----------



## True Blue

I recently received a message from a company saying that they could obtain permanent residency and passport for USA in return for investment of $500,000. I never asked for the details so don't know if that includes purchasing a residential property.

I have residential properties in UAE currently worth a lot more than $500,000 which have turned over a considerable sum in rents and contributed to the local UAE economy. The visa I was promised by the Master Developer in my sales agreement was never delivered. If I lived in Dubai myself, every dirham I spent would contribute to the local economy.

People are fleeing the MENA region "en mass" due to the security crisis and heading for Europe. Saudi Arabia is losing $12 Billion per day due to the crisis and low oil prices. Countries will very soon be laying down the red carpet to financially stable residents who can pay anything to the economy rather than requiring the welfare that it is expected to provide. 

Watch this space.


----------



## speculator

UAE Investor said:


> Difference is London is,nt surrounded by land made of sand that hardly nobody wants.
> 
> :cheers:


To put it technically: London is a shit hole


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> ^^
> 
> Most expats will not co operate with increased taxes and fees if they feel they are being penalised while others live off their backs for free. When the indigenous population are not paying charges and fees and expats are, that constitutes a form of welfare provided by the expat. The people benefiting from the welfare are not necessarily poor either. This is where society begins to break down and taxpayers begin to revolt at the level of taxes and subsidies that they are providing to a system which will give them nothing in return. Given that there are 9 expats for every Emerati, there could be serious consequences for the region if they do not begin to level the playing field soon.


Funny. This sounds so much like the UK :nuts:


----------



## SanjayDubai

Found this gem. For all you landlords out there -heed this guys awful experience.

http://dubailandlord.blogspot.ae/

A blog set up by a guy who bought somewhere to live and couldn't get the tenants out.

Its very measured - he just tells of his nightmare and what he faced from start to finish...

*"The rent committee is more like a jury rather than legal professionals. Emotions, Sympathy all play a role....as the landlord, you are the evil scum, period. 

Slightest scope for deviation from the letter of the law, the committee will swerve a mile to save the tenant from the evil landlord.

Your rights are only a function of these jurists deciding that may be, perhaps may be, the property owners have some rights too."*


And bits like:

*"These Tenants are violating many of the Tenancy Contract Conditions, including not having paid Rent now for over two months. The Rent Committee still ruled in their favour..."*


The main thing to take away from it (that surprised me) is never EVER lose your tenancy contract....

Dubai is operating a policy of all landlords are evil basically- and so take good care of how your tenancy is laid out.

cheers.:cheers:

We bought again BTW 9%net from day one so I take the above v.v.v seriously as I was extremely lonely in the land department  hashtagghosttown


----------



## smussuw

isnt the profit margin in real estate so low? Why don't people invest in other sectors?


----------



## dirtyharry1

chefdude said:


> Perhaps its time the UAE stopped spoon feeding its citizens by giving free houses and subsidised utilities and encourage them to pay for things the same way the rest of the population here does? That would shave a tidy amount off the liabilities column and would end the them and us culture


There is a simple reason for feeding UAE citizens... they keep quiet, they do not question that everything belongs to one family and they do not want a bigger part of the cake. Easy.


----------



## Rider

speculator said:


> Funny. This sounds so much like the UK :nuts:


I thought the same until I lived in Scandinavia. 

Trust me - UK tax rates aren't so bad after all. Operating a one man limited company in the UK is way more tax efficient than most other European countries especially as you can take a sizeable dividend each year and not have to pay income tax on top of the corporation tax. Also in most Scandi countries you pay capital gains tax if you make a profit after selling your primary residence whereas this is exempt in the UK.


----------



## Rider

My tenant is moving out mid November and I would appreciate some advice re. DEWA. 
The developer advised me after handover several years that a new DEWA account had been opened in my name and I have a note of the account number. Since then my two tenants have registered with DEWA and paid bills without any issues. 

When my tenant moves out could someone please advise in a nutshell what if anything I need to do? Obviously I will start looking for a new tenant soon but is there anything I need to be aware of?


----------



## True Blue

I watched a business report on Sky News on which analysts pointed out that the entire oil industry and developing shale industry are having to find savings to remain solvent. The shale sector in particular is developing new techniques which improve efficiency and lower cost of production. Service companies and subcontractors are all having to cut costs drastically due to the lower revenues. I live in a street full of oil workers/engineers/managers. They are all accepting drastic changes to their employment contracts. Some who would never leave home or their families are agreeing to moves to Angola and other regions that they would never previously consider.

In short, the industry is preparing itself for the long haul of lower oil revenues. Saudi would like as many companies as possible to go bust, particularly from the US shale sector. It was quoted that Saudi is losing $Billions every day deliberately to hurt the competition. Mainly Iran who they blame for supporting unrest in the region. But Saudi has cash reserves in excess of $700 Billion to wage war on other oil producing nations. The arithmetic seems to point to artificially low prices for 2 years and permanently low prices going forward off the back of the forced efficiencies and austere contracts created out of desperation by contractors and service providers keen to remain in business.

Low oil prices will result in low cement and steel prices along with other commodities. That could resurrect another speculative construction boom which will cause oversupply and lower property prices.


----------



## SanjayDubai

True Blue said:


> I watched a business report on Sky News on which analysts pointed out that the entire oil industry and developing shale industry are having to find savings to remain solvent. The shale sector in particular is developing new techniques which improve efficiency and lower cost of production. Service companies and subcontractors are all having to cut costs drastically due to the lower revenues. I live in a street full of oil workers/engineers/managers. They are all accepting drastic changes to their employment contracts. Some who would never leave home or their families are agreeing to moves to Angola and other regions that they would never previously consider.
> 
> In short, the industry is preparing itself for the long haul of lower oil revenues. Saudi would like as many companies as possible to go bust, particularly from the US shale sector. It was quoted that Saudi is losing $Billions every day deliberately to hurt the competition. Mainly Iran who they blame for supporting unrest in the region. But Saudi has cash reserves in excess of $700 Billion to wage war on other oil producing nations. The arithmetic seems to point to artificially low prices for 2 years and permanently low prices going forward off the back of the forced efficiencies and austere contracts created out of desperation by contractors and service providers keen to remain in business.
> 
> Low oil prices will result in low cement and steel prices along with other commodities. That could resurrect another speculative construction boom which will cause oversupply and lower property prices.



Brilliantly put TB thank you!

Saudi made a bet to lower oil prices & kill competition. Unexpectedly (to everyone) high cost producers like the shale companies, learnt to survive. Saudi has ACTUALLY made its competition stronger.

Even war torn Iraq has surprised everyone by managing to keep production levels healthy.

A well connected analyst sent me a 4 word response "Saudi is committing suicide"


----------



## HPDubai

Saudi is about 300 million USD per DAY short. Saudi just borrowed 10 Billion but it was a bit painful. The oil flooding policy is in place for 1 year now but no sign yet that it is working. Ruble is crashing. Other OPEC producers are really suffering. Shale producers are hunkering down. The question is: who will panic first...
UAE made a wise and timely move to abolish the fuel subsidies. But was this because they anticipate the oil price to go up shortly ?


----------



## SanjayDubai

Reading more on oil, I think a lot is to do with OPEC and Saudi.

The other bits like shale producers are on a steady increase, that's true, but not the main cause.

If Opec/Saudi agree to cut production the impact from the other things everyone is dicussing (a weakening china demand, less oil imported to US, Iran oil hitting the market etc) will be minimal. The price of oil could rise overnight.

Its an Opec issue with a bit of dust from peripheral issues, which also means it is an easy fix. Just one meeting. 

This is global poker.


----------



## HPDubai

But we feel the effects of it in our daily lives in the UAE.

Saudi will only cut if:
1) Russia also cuts (something they have never done before) and 
2) Russia drops support for Assad. 

Who will run out of money first ? Poker ? It is more like High Noon !
Saudi and Russia had a interesting meeting earlier this week....


----------



## The_Count

SanjayDubai said:


> @TB
> 
> I agree that it is untested and the Palm running out of land may or may not create an eternal rise in RE value.
> 
> What we believe is different however, is that Palm Jumeirah is surrounded by such dense inland projects. Something which would take decades for say, Jebel ali palm to achieve.
> 
> There's Internet city, Tecom, the Marina on one side and SZR Towers, Jumeirah & BB on the other. In some way it could be seen as the pin in Dubai's centre.
> 
> An oasis of residential calm in what is and will continue to be a very busy and densely packed res/commercial zone.
> 
> Re Nakheel how can anyone argue ? Historically they don't play fair, service charges are used as revenue, they have done what it takes to resurrect at everyone else's expense.
> 
> But will that always be the case?
> 
> I am looking a bit further along the line. There are prices on the palm we may never see again.
> 
> I don't know.


san jay, stop making bad investments...

one word DOWNTOWN


----------



## Pleth

*Where to live in Dubai if you want to take the boat to work*

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-to-take-the-boat-to-work-2015-08-20-1.600803

This is actually not a bad idea. Starting your day with a boat ride to work would be awesome. 
I use the water-bus all the time in Dubai Marina, I can highly recommend it to everybody.


----------



## AppleMac

True Blue said:


> I recently received a message from a company saying that they could obtain permanent residency and passport for USA in return for investment of $500,000. I never asked for the details so don't know if that includes purchasing a residential property.


No - you have to invest in a business that creates jobs in specific zones and you dont get a US passport, just a Green Card. The EB5 visa program has been very successful but as with everything you have to do due diligence and pick the best schemes.

If anyone is interested you should get your application in soon as the minimum amount is going up to $800,000.


----------



## Saint_

^^ I don't see what the attraction is anymore. Sure it was the land of opportunity years ago but US citizens living abroad these days basically have a ball and chain tied to their ankle in the form of the IRS. Be prepared to spend a lot of time and money filing tax returns and dealing with tax investigations.


----------



## True Blue

My brother emigrated there 25 years ago and he's talking about coming back to the UK now. He has already obtained UK passports for his family so they can leave at short notice. As well as the tax issues, excessive education and insurance costs, lack of holidays etc. Says it's turning into a police state, they are not courteous or helpful anymore and are literally getting away with false imprisonment and murder daily. There are 3 people shot and killed per day by the police in USA. 

If one person is shot by the police in UK it is a major incident. I know of one local policeman who worked in the armed response unit. His wife had an affair and left him. He immediately was withdrawn from armed response due to his personal circumstances. Ever heard of that happening in USA?


----------



## Hamad-

True Blue said:


> My brother emigrated there 25 years ago and he's talking about coming back to the UK now. He has already obtained UK passports for his family so they can leave at short notice. As well as the tax issues, excessive education and insurance costs, lack of holidays etc. Says it's turning into a police state, they are not courteous or helpful anymore and are literally getting away with false imprisonment and murder daily. There are 3 people shot and killed per day by the police in USA.
> 
> If one person is shot by the police in UK it is a major incident. I know of one local policeman who worked in the armed response unit. His wife had an affair and left him. He immediately was withdrawn from armed response due to his personal circumstances. Ever heard of that happening in USA?


I lived in usa for 3 yrs and i think it is away better than uk. It is the land of opportunities. Uk is just a socialist state for a lazy ppl who try to get benefits from government. 

Usa government is too small u barley feel it. U feel so free over there no restrictions like uk. U enjoy a good quality of life with no crazy tax system European countries have. Usa is a cheaper than uk and Europe. If i was not Emirates, usa would be the place i live. 

Usa is big country bigger than whole Europe u cant compare the crime there with tiny Britain. It is like comparing dubai to saudi Arabia.


----------



## borolad

Hamad- said:


> I lived in usa for 3 yrs and i think it is away better than uk. It is the land of opportunities. Uk is just a socialist state for a lazy ppl who try to get benefits from government.
> 
> Usa government is too small u barley feel it. U feel so free over there no restrictions like uk. U enjoy a good quality of life with no crazy tax system European countries have. Usa is a cheaper than uk and Europe. If i was not Emirates, usa would be the place i live.
> 
> Usa is big country bigger than whole Europe u cant compare the crime there with tiny Britain. It is like comparing dubai to saudi Arabia.


http://mapfight.appspot.com/us-vs-europe/united-states-europe-size-comparison


----------



## AppleMac

Saint_ said:


> ^^ I don't see what the attraction is anymore. Sure it was the land of opportunity years ago but US citizens living abroad these days basically have a ball and chain tied to their ankle in the form of the IRS. Be prepared to spend a lot of time and money filing tax returns and dealing with tax investigations.


Tell me about it - FATCA is a nightmare :bash:

That being said, there is still a lot going for living in the US and the EB5 Visa can provide a good way to get in, plus (if you pick the correct program) it can be quite financially beneficial.


----------



## Hamad-

borolad said:


> http://mapfight.appspot.com/us-vs-europe/united-states-europe-size-comparison


Hhhhh. U really smart. Whn i said Europe i mean European Union. If u take European continent which is bigger than usa, u will have higher crime rate and provety

So my point still proved anyways.


----------



## AltinD

Saint_ said:


> ^^ I don't see what the attraction is anymore. Sure it was the land of opportunity years ago but US citizens living abroad these days basically have a ball and chain tied to their ankle in the form of the IRS. Be prepared to spend a lot of time and money filing tax returns and dealing with tax investigations.


Pffff, we non-US citizens/residents/business here have to deal with that too. We have to fill up forms and even have our confidential personal and business data shared with IRS :cripes:


----------



## Saint_

AltinD said:


> Pffff, we non-US citizens/residents/business here have to deal with that too. We have to fill up forms and even have our confidential personal and business data shared with IRS :cripes:


It shows us where the Government's priorities are. It's the land of opportunity if you fancy getting a gun, walking into a TV studio and shooting a reporter and a cameraman over a petty work grievance.


----------



## noir-dresses

If the United States, and the GCC are the land of opportunity why are all the MENA region refuges flocking to the EU even though they have more in common first, and formost with the GCC let that be ethnically, culturally, religiously, etc, etc???

Even Lebanon is on the verge of having they're own Arab Spring over garbage of all things.:bash:


----------



## Pleth

noir-dresses said:


> If the United States, and the GCC are the land of opportunity why are all the MENA region refuges flocking to the EU even though they have more in common first, and formost with the GCC let that be ethnically, culturally, religiously, etc, etc???


This is exactly what Hamad said, Europe is socialist, they will hand out money to everybody. And their borders are open wide.

In USA and GCC they will have to get a job first and apply for a visa before you can cross their borders.

However USA do have refugees, - the Mexicans crossing the borders.

Europe could learn a lot from UAE on how to tackle emigrants. If not it could be the end of Europe.
This shows you again how useless the European Union is, when there is a real problem (emigrants) they are either on holiday or just passive. So Italy and Greece are issuing travel documents to all the emigrants so they can "get rid of them" and pass on the problem.


----------



## True Blue

^^It tells you how bad the socialism has become in Europe that they are printing money, not to ease up lending for businesses and mortgages, but to pay welfare and benefits. 

Maggie Thatcher must be spinning in her grave.


----------



## Pleth

Even in Sweden the problem is a taboo.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Just wondering what everyone's general opinion is of where prices will be in general for Dubai in 4 to 5 years time just before the 2020 expo compared with now? Its pure speculation I know but wondering if anyone had any opinions?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

China’s devaluation of the yuan against the US dollar is unlikely to dampen Chinese investors’ enthusiasm for Dubai property.

Indeed, property prices in the emirate remain “very reasonable” for Chinese investors compared to their home markets, according to Wang Liao, who owns Atomic Properties, which has offices in International City and Jumeirah Lakes Towers. 

“Top cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou and Shenzhen are three times more expensive than Dubai,” he said

http://www.thenational.ae/business/...e-to-chinese-buyers-despite-domestic-slowdown


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai’s tighter property rules aimed at preventing a housing bubble are the main cause of a slowdown in the emirate’s real estate sector rather than a sustained drop in oil prices, industry experts said.

Dubai has a low reliance on oil despite hydrocarbons providing three-quarters of the UAE’s consolidated revenue in 2014, according to credit agency Moody’s. Abu Dhabi is home to the bulk of the UAE’s energy reserves.

“Dubai residential property sales have declined over the past three quarters, but the drop in oil prices is coincidental and the slowdown is more due to big price increases in 2013 - the market is adjusting to return to affordable levels,” said Nicholas Maclean, managing director of consultants CBRE Middle East.

“This is a positive trend and will help prevent a bigger correction in the future.”

While housing prices are expected to drift lower this year, some experts said well-balanced supply and demand for properties should keep prices stable.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/...y-slowdown-due-to-tighter-rules-not-oil-slump


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Dubai: Prospective buyers are seemingly in no hurry to pick up property in Dubai — this disinterest is pushing prices even further into soft territory. Based on estimates by the consultancy ValuStrat, apartment prices in Business Bay saw a drop of 6 per cent in the second quarter of the year compared to what they were in the first three months.

Other clusters that saw drops during this period were International, Sports City and Discovery Gardens, all three by an average 4 per cent. Across the 26 locations tracked by ValuStrat, Dubai apartment and villa markets recorded declines by 2.5 per cent and 2.1 per cent quarter-on-quarter respectively. The median value for an apartment in Dubai is now Dh1,324 a square foot, while for villas it is Dh1,368 a square foot.

If the current level of declines were to continue through the rest of the year, that might be a prompt for undecided investors to finally get into the market. As things stand now, the pricing dynamic is very much in the buyers’ favour, with sellers expected to become even more generous with payment terms and incentives to buoy demand.

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/property-buyers-turn-scarce-in-dubai-1.1569467


----------



## AltinD

Pleth said:


> Europe could learn a lot from UAE on how to tackle emigrants...


As in letting in enough to become 85% of the population? :dunno:


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> As in letting in enough to become 85% of the population? :dunno:


The immigrants in Dubai all contribute to the economy in some way. The immigrants in Europe are heading there as they expect to be supported by the welfare programmes. How many immigrants have walked into UAE and been given a roof over their heads and money to support them without the need to do anything in return?

We have to ask the question as to why so many migrants from the MENA region are leaving this region for Europe. Why does there not seem to be an option for them within MENA? Britain is taking the view that they are exploiting the situation to declare asylum after passing through 6 countries and crossing oceans.


----------



## noir-dresses

We're on the front lines here in Croatia where refugees are starting to arrive in droves with Germany being they're preferred end destination. I hear a lot of people here saying, and commenting why are they not going to the UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia who seem to project a great lifestyle, and wealth? 

I understand what these people are going through, but the abnormal influx of refugees has to stop, and now. We should have a system where the women, and childrena are temporarily accommodated, and taken care of while all healthy and able men are forciblys shipped back to they're country to fight, and liberate they're countries so they're women and children can come home.

This is exactly what we had to do here to achieve our own sovereign, free, safe, independent country, and the same should go for them. No more Nany State free ride status with plenty of benefits, sometimes even more benefits than Europeans not to mention the abuse of the system.


----------



## True Blue

That was something I thought of. They are abandoning their country to thugs. Why are they not staying and fighting for their country and homes? Our forefathers fought to retain our sovereignty over 2 world wars. Now we are expected to allow foreigners to just walk in and take over under the banner of asylum. 

There was a news report a few weeks ago about asylum seekers COMPLAINING over the conditions of the camp they were being detained in. Everyone was saying our government should spend more to improve the conditions or free them. Surely there is another option, they return to their own country and do their complaining from there, if they are not happy with the treatment.

It's on the radio now as I write and the question is being asked why the rich Arab oil states are not doing more to accommodate them. They could accommodate the women and children and train and arm the men to return and fight instead of them dispersing all over Europe. 

Rant over!


----------



## chefdude

True Blue said:


> It's on the radio now as I write and the question is being asked why the rich Arab oil states are not doing more to accommodate them. They could accommodate the women and children and train and arm the men to return and fight instead of them dispersing all over Europe.
> 
> Rant over!


What a load of tosh hno:

So in the case of Libya, Iraq, and now attempted for Syria where the UN / US have gone in and bombed the living crap out of the countries and are in fact the agressor your best idea is for the displaced to be armed and go back and fight the most powerful army on the planet?

Have a word with yourself


----------



## noir-dresses

It's not very manly either Mark when the ablebodied men hide behind they're women, and children seeking asylum over here. I fought for my country when needed, and l would rather of died than given up to the enemy where my families history, heritage came from. 

400,000 trained, and armed Iraqi forces practically layed down they're weapons and ran once the going got tough with ISIS. 

Once they get asylum you see them eating ice on European squares while they're country men and women back home are getting slaughtered.


----------



## borolad

*Europe*



Hamad- said:


> Hhhhh. U really smart. Whn i said Europe i mean European Union. If u take European continent which is bigger than usa, u will have higher crime rate and provety
> 
> So my point still proved anyways.


Why so angry. Just posted some information for readers.


----------



## Richard Head

noir-dresses said:


> It's not very manly either Mark when the ablebodied men hide behind they're women, and children seeking asylum over here. I fought for my country when needed, and l would rather of died than given up to the enemy where my families history, heritage came from.
> 
> 400,000 trained, and armed Iraqi forces practically layed down they're weapons and ran once the going got tough with ISIS.
> 
> Once they get asylum you see them eating ice on European squares while they're country men and women back home are getting slaughtered.


Can we get back on topic now rather than turning the thread into a shitfest?

Also - their, not they're. Your welcome :nuts:


----------



## True Blue

Richard Head said:


> Can we get back on topic now rather than turning the thread into a shitfest?
> 
> Also - their, not they're. Your welcome :nuts:


Thanks for adding to the shitfest with your erroneous lesson;

YOU'RE WELCOME, NOT YOUR WELCOME!


----------



## borolad

True Blue said:


> Thanks for adding to the shitfest with your erroneous lesson;
> 
> YOU'RE WELCOME, NOT YOUR WELCOME!


I am loving the grammar lessons.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Why are immigrants such a bad thing? Those poor people spend their life savings and risk their lives to make it to Europe. Their own countries are disasters so you can't blame them for trying to improve their lives.


----------



## True Blue

^^The point that I was trying to make is why are they heading into Europe and not staying in MENA? Everyone understands why they want to move but don't you think they are exploiting the situation to seek asylum in Europe rather than be displaced.

Most are not short of money, so it would be great if they were welcomed into the UAE with open arms. That would help boost the property prices and rents and we would all be happy


----------



## noir-dresses

Don't get me wrong of course we feel for them, and we wish them all the best. My wife has helped organize food, and clothing for them as well. She also wants to let them stay with us at home. She told me if anything at least give them a place to stay with dignity, feed them, let them take a shower before they move on to their next destination. 

What people don't realize is how many refugees there are, and how many keep coming every day. Two days ago we had a tragedy in Austria because greedy Bulgarians where transporting them in trucks with no ventilation/air.

The front page news in our country's news paper read today "Europe is being exhausted because of America's revolutions around the world".

Sorryi f this thread is going off course, but it reallyi s a shit storrm with no solution in sight.


----------



## iberstone

I am looking for people that invested money in any project developed by KM Properties in Business Bay. I´ve heard a big group has formed (in the UK?) in order to defend our rights, but no idea how to join them. Projects involved are Parklane, B2B and Tamani Arts.
Any idea ?
Thanks!
Iber


----------



## UAE Investor

My post lacked interest so!


----------



## Jet7

Dubai rent index update now only once a year: DLD

http://www.emirates247.com/news/dubai-rent-index-update-now-only-once-a-year-dld-2015-08-31-1.601772


----------



## SanjayDubai

Dubai_Steve said:


> Just wondering what everyone's general opinion is of where prices will be in general for Dubai in 4 to 5 years time just before the 2020 expo compared with now? Its pure speculation I know but wondering if anyone had any opinions?


If you want to know where prices will be in 4 years time, ask yourself where you think rents will be in 4 years time.

There has never EVER been a time in Dubai where property prices did not correlate directly with rental yield.

It is an investors market, not an emotional one.


IMHO of course 


(Off plan sales often tout rental yield to generate sales infact see Viceroy claiming double digit %'s to entice buyers)


----------



## True Blue

Jet7 said:


> Dubai rent index update now only once a year: DLD
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/dubai-rent-index-update-now-only-once-a-year-dld-2015-08-31-1.601772


This is verging on the criminally incompetent. They can't be bothered to maintain a current and up to date index so instead of scrapping it, they decide to abandon the index or consign it to a filing cabinet at the back of the cupboard only to be looked at in a years time. I had noticed that it had not changed at the last update on 1st April and was looking forward to see what had changed in the new update due tomorrow. Instead of making any effort they resort to a press release stating "we'll get to it later, maybe in a year or so".

Before anyone asks, I say criminally incompetent because it's been enacted to law by the Sheikh. Just a pity the people tasked with maintaining the law, can't be bothered.



> This website had reported that Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera), the regulatory arm of DLD, is planning to unveil a more detailed rent index this year which will take into consideration various factors such as views from the apartment and facilities in a tower, age of the building, etc, when revealing the average rent for the apartment.


^^Heard it all before and it NEVER HAPPENED!

"age of the tower" WTF! What about the apartment size and number of parking bays. Surely that's more relevant than the age of the building.

The index is a disaster and a complete failure. Do the right thing and follow the lead set by Abu Dhabi, SCRAP IT NOW!


----------



## True Blue

^^BTW. The current rent index for the Marina says that a 1 bed is in the range of AED90,000 to AED120,000. And yet my tenant is paying me AED132k for my 1 bed in the marina. Go figure!

If you can't be bothered to maintain it then do the right thing and SCRAP THE RENT INDEX!!!


----------



## SanjayDubai

The rent cap is a false positive too.

*Message starts to look like a dirty trick:* 

Please come to Dubai and invest in our high yield property here- PLEASE!!

Invested? Fantastic. 

Please, please, buy more tax free income property here- Dubai will reward you ten fold!

Invested again? Superb.

Everyone on board? everyone invested? 

*OK - new law.*

Rents to be kept artificially low. 

Now you investors are bad- nasty and greedy.

We champion the poor tenant- we are wonderful.

_______________________________

The problem is it negatively impacts everyone of course. It doesnt save the tenant in the bigger picture.

Investors mean growth means jobs, means salaries, means people, means tenants, means consumers, means confidence.

_________________________________



*12 months notice (civilised), without the need for any reasons should be all that is required to return a property that belongs to YOU.*

(Rents should be dictated by the market. You know you cant just charge anything you like right RERA?? Investors shouldn't be used to build a welfare housing system :lol


----------



## True Blue

Another negative factor of the rent controls is the fact that small apartments benefit greatly. My new tenants are a young professional married couple from UK. They had asked to view high end properties in the Marina. They were sickened off being shown apartments 600-700ft (Silverene, West Avenue, Botanica) which are just too small for a couple. My apartment is over 1000ft2 and has just been refurbished to a very high standard.

Landlords of large high end units are not going to spend money on them if the rent controls prevent them from getting any return for their endeavors. :bash:


----------



## SanjayDubai

It's a trick.

Wait until you are well and truly in and the door is closed.

Worse still, the index they produce is bad, and indiscriminate.

Like audited (but not really) Service charges, its a trick.

_________________


You have to navigate this with care, and believe the market will force the issue to be resolved. Dubai normally responds to economics.


----------



## Saint_

True Blue said:


> Another negative factor of the rent controls is the fact that small apartments benefit greatly. My new tenants are a young professional married couple from UK. They had asked to view high end properties in the Marina. They were sickened off being shown apartments 600-700ft (Silverene, West Avenue, Botanica) which are just too small for a couple. My apartment is over 1000ft2 and has just been refurbished to a very high standard.
> 
> Landlords of large high end units are not going to spend money on them if the rent controls prevent them from getting any return for their endeavors. :bash:


I have avoided buying spacious high end studios and one beds precisely because the index is so fundamentally flawed and fails to to account of additional features which is a real shame. I also don't like the idea of the index putting my high end apartment into the same bracket as the low end dumps for the purposes of rent adjustments purely because it has the same number of bedrooms.


----------



## AltinD

You guys are aware that the index is supposed to show the AVERAGE number, right? :cripes:


----------



## Slimbo

AltinD said:


> You guys are aware that the index is supposed to show the AVERAGE number, right? :cripes:


That's exactly the problem they're discussing?

Landlords with large, spacious apartments with nice views in a sought after building are struggling to get market rates from their existing tenants because the index says the current rent is already higher than the average number which is dragged down by tiny SZR-facing shoeboxes in a building that's not properly maintained.

Similarly, tenants who can only afford tiny SZR-facing shoeboxes in a building that's not properly maintained are given rental increases by their landlords despite already paying the market rate (or above) because the rental index allows the landlords to demand this because they're paying less than the average rent, which is inflated by luxurious, large spacious apartments with nice views in sought after buildings.

It's a "one size fits all" solution that only works for people with a "one size fits all" body shape.

They have Ejari, they should know how much every tenant is paying to rent every apartment in every building more or less. If the system was built properly they'd easily be able to access their database and see, for example, how much the average rent was for a 2 bedroom apartment in Princess Tower. Best of all, it would be constantly updated.


----------



## chefdude

Seems to be the custom here I'm afraid to say it's all about saving face. Nobody ever wants to admit they have totally screwed something up so to avoid any further embarassment they postpone and delay and push things forward a year hoping the problem will simply solve itself. :nuts:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Another record for Dubai

Dubai property prices fell by 12.2 per cent during the past year, the largest drop in the world, according to real estate consultancy Knight Frank.

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...most-in-the-world-knight-frank-xays-1.1576750


----------



## Dubai_Steve

The removal of sanctions on Iran could provide a timely lift for the real-estate market in Dubai after it “flattened out” in recent months, according to property consultancy Cluttons.

The company has published its 2015 UAE property report, which points out that Iranian nationals accounted for 12 per cent of all property transactions in Dubai in 2010. By the first quarter of this year, this figure had dropped to 3 per cent.

The head of research at Cluttons, Faisal Durrani, said that if sanctions are formally lifted as expected in January or February next year, global companies looking to target the market are most likely to set up shop in Dubai. The report points out that UAE-Iran cross-border trade stood at Dh62.4 billion last year, and that Iran’s government estimates that its oil and gas sector needs investment of Dh734bn over the next five years, as well as a Dh18bn requirement for aviation.

Mr Durrani said there is already anecdotal evidence of Iranian businesses in Dubai gearing up for growth. 

http://www.thenational.ae/business/...ntum-into-dubai-property-market-says-cluttons


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai_Steve said:


> The removal of sanctions on Iran could provide a timely lift for the real-estate market in Dubai after it “flattened out” in recent months, according to property consultancy Cluttons.
> 
> The company has published its 2015 UAE property report, which points out that Iranian nationals accounted for 12 per cent of all property transactions in Dubai in 2010. By the first quarter of this year, this figure had dropped to 3 per cent.
> 
> The head of research at Cluttons, Faisal Durrani, said that if sanctions are formally lifted as expected in January or February next year, global companies looking to target the market are most likely to set up shop in Dubai. The report points out that UAE-Iran cross-border trade stood at Dh62.4 billion last year, and that Iran’s government estimates that its oil and gas sector needs investment of Dh734bn over the next five years, as well as a Dh18bn requirement for aviation.
> 
> Mr Durrani said there is already anecdotal evidence of Iranian businesses in Dubai gearing up for growth.
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/business/...ntum-into-dubai-property-market-says-cluttons


This could actually have a negative effect on the Dubai property market if Iranians decide to go back home to live, and work after the sanctions are lifted. Many businesses could actually set up shop back in Iran after the sanctions are lifted because finance, banking, and commerce with the rest of the world will be possible again.

Most Iranians living in Dubai most likely have they're own home/property back home, making an income was the real problem in Iran during the sanctions. In the end they might calculate, and come to the conclusion that it's more economical to live back home, compared to the expensive Dubai rentals. Any way most expats spend most of their income on rent.

Another reason for Iranians leaving Dubai, and going back home to live, and work might be as simple as being together with their family again.


----------



## luv2bebrown

^^agreed. Iran will be able to compete for investment. The Dubai import-export industry will boom, but the growth will be more than offset by a diversion of investment capital to Iran. Something as simple as opening a McDonald's in Tehran will be just too lucrative an opportunity.


----------



## propertypimp

SanjayDubai said:


> If you want to know where prices will be in 4 years time, ask yourself where you think rents will be in 4 years time.
> 
> There has never EVER been a time in Dubai where property prices did not correlate directly with rental yield.
> 
> It is an investors market, not an emotional one.



Hi Sanjay,

I'm in the market for a 8-9% net rental yield. Would appreciate some pointers on which buildings/developments to look at. You can PM me if you prefer

Regards, 

The Pimp


----------



## chefdude

luv2bebrown said:


> ^^agreed. Iran will be able to compete for investment. The Dubai import-export industry will boom, but the growth will be more than offset by a diversion of investment capital to Iran. Something as simple as opening a McDonald's in Tehran will be just too lucrative an opportunity.


Nobody with 2 active braincells is eating that toxic crap anymore. To call it food is an insult to Food


----------



## AltinD

^^ Well, many do ..... but i can say that what passes as food on most restaurants in Dubai (and in many other places) is just as much toxic crap, and overpriced on top of that too.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ That reminds me, is Hooters open yet?  Maybe there is one in the chea(k/p) a$$ end now?


----------



## SanjayDubai

propertypimp said:


> Hi Sanjay,
> 
> I'm in the market for a 8-9% net rental yield. Would appreciate some pointers on which buildings/developments to look at. You can PM me if you prefer
> 
> Regards,
> 
> The Pimp


Two things my two post pimple:

*ONE*

I've no problem telling you in general terms, that lower end and small units (size) and by description (studios) give us a higher yield.

Be warned size is important. There is no point having an 800ft2 studio. 

*TWO*

We are looking at the palm now. The next two years will see what we believe is big change. This will trigger further development and off it goes. 

The perceived winners and losers today may well be be back to front in two years.

There are some pockets of 'eye-wateringly' cheap square foot prices and we believe it is a glitch, an overhang from the crisis.


The above could all be totally wrong of course. My research could have been a starbucks and a 15 minute glance at GNProperty. Good Luck :lol:


----------



## AltinD

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ That reminds me, is Hooters open yet?  Maybe there is one in the chea(k/p) a$$ end now?


Well, since it got rejected back in 2007 - 8, no one has tried again yet. But we got the culinary delights of ihop and Shake-shack :lol:


----------



## propertypimp

SanjayDubai said:


> Two things my two post pimple:
> 
> *ONE*
> 
> I've no problem telling you in general terms, that lower end and small units (size) and by description (studios) give us a higher yield.
> 
> Be warned size is important. There is no point having an 800ft2 studio.
> 
> *TWO*
> 
> We are looking at the palm now. The next two years will see what we believe is big change. This will trigger further development and off it goes


Well said Sangay, but by that rationale, the palm doesn't have any lower end studios. 

Palm views studios for example are offered for around 1.3m and renting for 85k gross?


----------



## SanjayDubai

oh, it's YOU.

Dig a bit deeper (I did), and check your 'dar....



propertypimp said:


> Well said Sangay, but by that rationale, the palm doesn't have any lower end studios.
> 
> Palm views studios for example are offered for around 1.3m and renting for 85k gross?


----------



## propertypimp

SanjayDubai said:


> oh, it's YOU.
> 
> Dig a bit deeper (I did), and check your 'dar....


Sorry i don't understand what you are saying.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

I've found 1 and 2 beds in the marina for 8.5% to 9% gross / 7.5% net yield if your interested.


----------



## propertypimp

Dubai_Steve said:


> I've found 1 and 2 beds in the marina for 8.5% to 9% gross / 7.5% net yield if your interested.


Yes now that's interesting. 
I do own a 2 bed in JBR bought a few years ago making 9.5% net today so i wanted to expand my portfolio. Just thought i would bounce some ideas on here.


----------



## luv2bebrown

chefdude said:


> Nobody with 2 active braincells is eating that toxic crap anymore. To call it food is an insult to Food


mcdonalds is delicious!


----------



## SanjayDubai

Just got an 'in a nutshell' view on the current conflicts in the region. 

(This is in light of Russian boots on the ground in Syria recently- which could be significant).

1. US wants to neutralise Russia and the best way to do that is to find an alternative Gas supply for Europe. Once this is done, Russia is basically a non entity with no bargaining power.

2. As alternatives to Russian gas for Europe there's Iran (Sh'ite) gas, and Qatar (Sunni) Gas wanting to build pipelines. Great.

3. Both need their pipes to run through Syria.

4. Assad likes Iran, and Saudi doesn't like Iran. So Saudi (and the UAE for that matter) etc are backing Qatar and therefore regime change in Syria.

5. Assad likes Russia likes Iran- so the US are also backing Qatar- hello regime change in Syria.

If Putin Keeps Assad, his gas still gets diluted by Iranian supply true, but he has negotiated interests in the region with Assad, and that keeps him in the game.


Something like that. 9% net yields anyone?


----------



## chefdude

luv2bebrown said:


> mcdonalds is delicious!


You may well believe that but any chef will tell you that none of that flavour comes from anything nutritious or natural. Ever got into an elevator after a delivery guy carrying McD? it smells rancid! Anyway you have kind of proved my point in the OP :lol:


----------



## sidxb

*List of holiday homes operators ?*



NeilP said:


> *Short-term Lets*
> 
> Suggest people read these articles. I believe you have to be a licenced operator to be able to let apartments short-term in Dubai and these have to be letting 30 or more. Otherwise you are operating outside the law and subject to fines as made clear in top link.
> 
> http://www.dubaichronicle.com/2015/03/30/new-fine-for-short-term-rentals-in-dubai/
> 
> http://my.telegraph.co.uk/expat/ann...bais-new-holiday-homes-what-you-need-to-know/
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/leasing-your-flat-as-holiday-home-2013-12-11-1.530900
> 
> Below is a summary of new rules:
> 
> What are the DTCM requirements of the Dubai Holiday Home Law
> 
> Whilst the full parameters of the law have not yet been released by the DTCM from the information we have collected we expect to see the following guidelines:
> 
> 1. Only locally based companies/individuals will be able to obtain a licence from the DTCM to operate in Dubai.
> 2. Licensed operators will have to manage a minimum of 30 properties.
> 3. Licensed operators will have to demonstrate experience in the hospitality sector.
> 4. Holiday Home licensees will have to adhere to a strict set of rules to follow the law, yet to be confirmed by the DTCM.
> 5. Holiday Homes will be classified into two categories of Standard or Deluxe by the DTCM
> 6. The DTCM will register, monitor and inspect Holiday Homes to comply with set standards.
> 7. Complaints against licensees will be handled by the DTCM within strict timeframes.
> 8. Unlicensed operators will be fined and immediately closed down.
> 9. Each licensed property will have to display an officialcertificate of registration by the DTCM within the property.
> 10. Licensed properties will have to be properly and regularly maintained.
> 11. Electricity and Water must be provided to customers at no additional charge.
> 12. Holiday Home rentals will be allowed on a daily, weekly and monthly basis.
> 13. Licensees will be required to participate in the electronic program of guest registration for hotel and tourism establishments.
> 14. Licensees must provide data and statistics to the DTCM.
> 15. Licensees will not be allowed to act as an intermediary, or middle man, between unlicensed operators and their customers.
> 16. Licensees will not be allowed to rent partial properties, i.e. split a property into separate rooms or beds.
> 17. Licensees must collect taxes and fees as set out by the Dubai Municipality and the DTCM for each confirmed booking.
> 18. Licensees will require insurance to the required specification of the DTCM for the duration of the licence term.
> 
> As you can see there are many new rules that will make it unlawful and difficult to operate your holiday home unless you are officially licenced and based in Dubai. The DTCM will have powers to warn, suspend and cancel the licence of any operator that is in violation of their rules. We expect fines from 200 AED to 20,000 AED for non-compliance to the rules, and repeat violators can expect to pay double if any violation occurs twice within the same year. Whilst the penalties might seem harsh, the regulation of the sector by the DTCM’s enforcement division will ensure rogue or amateur operators will not be allowed to operate, or face the severe consequences of the law.


Dug out above detailed post while RTFF about holiday homes. Previously , I did short term (on monthly basis) for few months and remember my guests would leave happy and apartment occupancy was around 88 %. However, now since laws are in place and adherence required to it so I have tried 2 operators. It is similar story like RE agents that neither do I get peace of mind or good return nor the guests leave happy. 

I did google search but get same 5-6 operators who are active online. Can I get a complete list of holiday home operators ( can not locate it on DTCM ) with comparison of the commission etc ?


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*Dubai property correction expected to continue into 2016*

Dubai house prices fell in the the two months to the end of August as the city’s property correction continued.

According to new figures from broker CBRE published this morning, average house prices in Dubai dropped by another 2 per cent during the period, equating to a 6 per cent fall compared with the same period a year earlier.

The figures come on the eve of Dubai’s annual Cityscape Global property exhibition and follow in the wake of statistics published by rival broker Knight Frank last week showing that the Dubai residential property market was one of the worst performing in the world in the second quarter of the year with greater price slumps than Greece, China and Ukraine.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/dubai-property-correction-expected-to-continue-into-2016


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> I've found 1 and 2 beds in the marina for 8.5% to 9% gross / 7.5% net yield if your interested.


I always question your research. Not sure how long you spend in Dubai in a year or if all your research is based purely on desk study.

You can not take adverts for rent and pair them with an advert to sell. Landlords and owners tend to set the asking prices whereas the market sets the actual prices. An example of this would be my 1 bed apartment in the Chic end, where we started marketing at 120k pa and achieved 132k due to the number of offers received. The factors at work were, the location, the condition and the low floor. The new tenants moved down from their previous apartment on the 46th floor. 

Basically everything you have been saying for years is proving to be wrong. Tenants are willing to live in busy heavily occupied tall buildings, but they will never pay a premium for it. Sharing a building with 700 neighbours is now seen as a cheaper alternative.


----------



## True Blue

Unpegging the Dirham and currency devaluation back on the cards;

http://gulfnews.com/business/sector...rop-after-saudis-pledge-to-keep-peg-1.1580129

The prolonged decline in the price of crude oil has brought the issue of unpegging the Dirham and $ back to the foreground. This could stifle property transactions for as long as the uncertainty looms. The talk seems to be that the Dirham could be devalued by around 15% if it is allowed to float.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> I always question your research. Not sure how long you spend in Dubai in a year or if all your research is based purely on desk study.
> 
> You can not take adverts for rent and pair them with an advert to sell. Landlords and owners tend to set the asking prices whereas the market sets the actual prices.


My yield calculations in my post above are based on current facts and actual prices, not speculation or advertised prices.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Residential rents are continuing to rise in many areas of Dubai, despite the ongoing drop in house prices, new research reveals.

Data compiled exclusively for Arabian Business by estate agency Better Homes suggests there is little correlation between rental rates and house prices.

http://m.arabianbusiness.com/focus-...between-house-prices-rental-rates-605352.html


----------



## Dubai_Steve

While the downturn is expected to continue next year, Al Qassim explains that Dubai will witness another cycle of growth in the years leading up to Expo 2020.

http://www.kippreport.com/fcs/dubai-realty-market-to-boom-before-expo-2020/


----------



## luv2bebrown

chefdude said:


> You may well believe that but any chef will tell you that none of that flavour comes from anything nutritious or natural. Ever got into an elevator after a delivery guy carrying McD? it smells rancid! Anyway you have kind of proved my point in the OP :lol:


Remember that cyanides are naturally occurring compounds. Taste is subjective, but the idea that natural=good and non-natural=bad is just pure scientific illiteracy.


----------



## agod

chefdude said:


> You may well believe that but any chef will tell you that none of that flavour comes from anything nutritious or natural. Ever got into an elevator after a delivery guy carrying McD? it smells rancid! Anyway you have kind of proved my point in the OP :lol:



The Flavour comes from the Fats, McDonalds (Palm Oil they used to use)make a good job of Pumping out that Delicious Smell, that you get if you walk past any Mac D anywhere in the World, and you get the same, they Pump it out and it Certainly makes me Hungry, and I love all those heavy Fats, I save all my Bacon Fat and use to start my Frying off, Chips cooked in Beef Dripping (still looking for that in Dubai) Bobs Chip Shop in the Marina has gone over to Healthy Fats and we now have Tasteless Chips, Supermarkets full of Lean Meat, and Pork Cuts with the Fat Taken off, and Fat Free, Give me a Break the Fat is the Flavour, and should be left alone, yes I am not a Lover of the 5 a Day Fruits and Veggies or this Constant cutting out of Salt and Fat from our Food, leave me alone to make my own choice, and I love My Microwave.


----------



## chefdude

luv2bebrown said:


> Remember that cyanides are naturally occurring compounds. Taste is subjective, but the idea that natural=good and non-natural=bad is just pure scientific illiteracy.


That's just garbage rather like the "junk food" you are championing. I feel sorry for you and your stomach to have such poor education about food.

When I talk about Natural food I mean items that are not processed. Vegetables, fruit, genuine meats chicken, lamb, beef etc and fish all which have to be non GMO.

Highly processed "food" has been totally screwed with you are eating some of the worst and lowest quality cuts of meat that in many cases are barely fit for human consumption. They have obscene amounts of chemicals added many of which have harmful side effects and lead to surprise surprise obescity. Do a google search on McDonalds and Pink slime its disgusting!

Another item to search is McD burger doesn't decompose.

Natural food is the only stuff you should reagularly be eating if you are living off processed rubbish then its going to be a short life full of trips to the hospital and pharmaceutical cabinet


----------



## chefdude

agod said:


> The Flavour comes from the Fats, McDonalds (Palm Oil they used to use)make a good job of Pumping out that Delicious Smell, that you get if you walk past any Mac D anywhere in the World, and you get the same, they Pump it out and it Certainly makes me Hungry, and I love all those heavy Fats, I save all my Bacon Fat and use to start my Frying off, Chips cooked in Beef Dripping (still looking for that in Dubai) Bobs Chip Shop in the Marina has gone over to Healthy Fats and we now have Tasteless Chips, Supermarkets full of Lean Meat, and Pork Cuts with the Fat Taken off, and Fat Free, Give me a Break the Fat is the Flavour, and should be left alone, yes I am not a Lover of the 5 a Day Fruits and Veggies or this Constant cutting out of Salt and Fat from our Food, leave me alone to make my own choice, and I love My Microwave.


Nothing against Fats at all that wasn't the gist of my post.

Try Duck Fat cooked chips same as roast potatoes.

I always make Triple cooked chips anyway from Maris Piper or Idaho potatoes truly amazing soft on the inside and crispy on the exterior


----------



## UAE Investor

chefdude said:


> Nothing against Fats at all that wasn't the gist of my post.
> 
> Try Duck Fat cooked chips same as roast potatoes.
> 
> I always make Triple cooked chips anyway from Maris Piper or Idaho potatoes truly amazing soft on the inside and crispy on the exterior


i like cheesy chips too...with olive,s and stuff.

There,s alot one can do to improve the flavour ...

:cheers:


----------



## dubaiprojects

*Stella Maris*

What is the opinion on this project, worth taking the risk at the dead end of marina?


The off plan prices are from 17100 aed psft.
Is it good for investment point of view?

What would be dubai like 5 years from now in terms of projects etc for one to make money from premium from this project?

Cheers

The pdf of project is located here.
http://docdro.id/2TQfXcC


----------



## UAE Investor

Dubai is it really making waves anymore in the development world?

Too many shoddy poor quality buildings,built by second rate developers.

What will Dubai be like in the coming years ?..probably the same as it is now with a few more poor quality dated interior high rise,s with fit out that would belong to the early nineties...

Dubai Has massive debts remember !


----------



## dubaiprojects

maybe... but still people are making fortune from dubai real estate both in rentals and in investment appreciations. It depends on the experience from person to person.

I believe so far dubai has given me what other countries would never have i terms of ROI on investments in the property area. yet there are many many folks who lost their money in projects which never got completed.

cheers


UAE Investor said:


> Dubai is it really making waves anymore in the development world?
> 
> Too many shoddy poor quality buildings,built by second rate deveolpers.
> 
> What will Dubai be like in the coming years ?..probally the same as it is now with a few more poor quality dated interior high rise,s with fit out that would belong to the early nineties...
> 
> Dubai Has massive debts remember !


----------



## sgn7200

MARINA SUITES
The above project seems to have been re-activated. Does anyone know how has it come back to life when the original developer who sold the project went burst. Anyone who can give any lead will have our heartfelt thanks. Our relations bought into the project and are struggling to find out who to contact. Amazing though, construction work is going on and nobody has asked us for installment payments.


----------



## dirtyharry1

The_Count said:


> so many empty properties....and barely anything sold in new projects


Give them to the Arab refugees... would be full in a week


----------



## UAE Investor

dirtyharry1 said:


> Give them to the Arab refugees... would be full in a week


Not at these prices!

Problem is Dubai is falling behind big time now in fit out design etc

Want a decent flat and some where modern to live go to any high rise in the uk /....my hairdresser has a 1/2 bed in liverpool ,just basic but much better fit out than the dated rubbish dished out as 5 star B/S in Dubai.

:cheers:


----------



## Saint_

Deleted by poster.


----------



## man city fc

UAE Investor said:


> Not at these prices! Problem is Dubai is falling behind big time now in fit out design etc Want a decent flat and some where modern to live go to any high rise in the uk /....my hairdresser has a 1/2 bed in liverpool ,just basic but much better fit out than the dated rubbish dished out as 5 star B/S in Dubai. :cheers:



mmm .....Dubai or Liverpool....decisions, decisions.....lol !!


----------



## True Blue

^^:lol:

I think the point was that Dubai luxury doesn't even trump Liverpool squaller. Some of the quality in Dubai sold as 5 star is dire. Select Property sold some 5 star developments with wall tiling that could not have cost more than 5AED/m2. Read the wording of any sales literature and you will see that it is always carefully chosen to suggest the highest specification without detailing any substance which can be demonstrated in a court of law. Dubai has no misrepresentation laws and it is exploited to full effect by its developers. 

Anyone want to buy an exclusive apartment in our development, it's so exclusive we will only sell to those who can sign their name properly. :lol:


----------



## UAE Investor

man city fc said:


> mmm .....Dubai or Liverpool....decisions, decisions.....lol !!


Canal residence you bought in, is a classic example of Dubai tat!


Who made that decisionsssssss ?.

:lol:


----------



## UAE Investor

True Blue said:


> ^^:lol:
> 
> I think the point was that Dubai luxury doesn't even trump Liverpool squaller.


Go easy laaaaa.....

Liverpool is a great city NOW!

:cheers:


----------



## UAE Investor

By the way ..FYI

Me and unkownplesures have been getting on behind the scenes really well..(pm,s)

He wanted to meet up when i holidayed in Dubai recently...,did,nt happen because of phone issues etc...

Yes there was a possibility he was going to kill me ...but i thought it worth the chance ..

:cheers:


----------



## propertypimp

sgn7200 said:


> MARINA SUITES
> The above project seems to have been re-activated. Does anyone know how has it come back to life when the original developer who sold the project went burst. Anyone who can give any lead will have our heartfelt thanks. Our relations bought into the project and are struggling to find out who to contact. Amazing though, construction work is going on and nobody has asked us for installment payments.


You are referring to MiNC property. The actual owner of the project is Sheffield real estate, they have another building underway at the mina siyahi end of marina. 
They didn't ask you for installments because none of the original buyers are acknowledged by them as buyers. Probably resold or being privately funded by the owner.


----------



## sgn7200

propertypimp said:


> You are referring to MiNC property. The actual owner of the project is Sheffield real estate, they have another building underway at the mina siyahi end of marina.
> They didn't ask you for installments because none of the original buyers are acknowledged by them as buyers. Probably resold or being privately funded by the owner.


Many thanks for the info. As far as I can see from the documentation, the plot is owned by MiNC Property Enterprises and the SPA issued by them names Waterfront Developments Limited, an off shore company as the Seller. The correspondence received by the buyer from Waterfront names Sheffield real estate as the developer. The point is if MINC/Waterfront did own the project, our equity as unit holder stands protected and the new owners of the project take the project subject to our equity as unit holder. We shall appreciate if anyone can direct us where we can get the full facts.


----------



## propertypimp

sgn7200 said:


> Many thanks for the info. As far as I can see from the documentation, the plot is owned by MiNC Property Enterprises and the SPA issued by them names Waterfront Developments Limited, an off shore company as the Seller. The correspondence received by the buyer from Waterfront names Sheffield real estate as the developer. The point is if MINC/Waterfront did own the project, our equity as unit holder stands protected and the new owners of the project take the project subject to our equity as unit holder. We shall appreciate if anyone can direct us where we can get the full facts.


All of MiNCs developments are under offshore special purpose vehicles made to protect the parent company. As far as i know, MiNC did not own the plot, otherwise they wouldn't walk away from that much equity. The problem is your purchase agreement is with waterfront development which was dissolved a long time ago along with MiNC so if you do approach Sheffield real estate, they will probably shrug it off.


----------



## sgn7200

propertypimp said:


> All of MiNCs developments are under offshore special purpose vehicles made to protect the parent company. As far as i know, MiNC did not own the plot, otherwise they wouldn't walk away from that much equity. The problem is your purchase agreement is with waterfront development which was dissolved a long time ago along with MiNC so if you do approach Sheffield real estate, they will probably shrug it off.


Thanks for your help. It looks we bought a dead investment and we have to write off the investment. Obviously the contract itself was false as the seller sold us something as the owner and in fact he did not own. It is unbelievable that it could happen right under the nose of RERA. It can only happen in Dubai. But the fact is WATERFRONT is a British company incorporated in New Jersey, briefly struck off the register but restored and up and running again. Grateful to you for help.


----------



## Jnrboss

Hello Everyone!
Any updates on Dubai Pearl??


----------



## Richard Head

Jnrboss said:


> Hello Everyone!
> Any updates on Dubai Pearl??


Have you considered checking the Dubai Pearl thread? Crazy as it might seem. :nuts:


----------



## The_Count

Jnrboss said:


> Hello Everyone!
> Any updates on Dubai Pearl??



LOL


----------



## True Blue

Good news for rentals, rents appear to be rising across the board again. After rents dropped by 5% in the Marina during the summer months, things seem to be turning the corner again as rents for a 1 bed in the marina climb by 1% last month to an average of AED106k per annum. Rents for 2 beds in the Marina are also up slightly for the month to an average of AED156k per annum. 

The trends seem to be showing that there is downward pressure on rents during the summer season which recovers again as the temperatures fall and schools return.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/property/index/

This table is based on actual recorded contracts and not asking prices.


----------



## AltinD

My non-freehold apartment's rent in the 'old Dubai' was increased by 10% for 2016


----------



## True Blue

^^What! they put it up to 33k now? Be thankful that your landlord can not read


----------



## AltinD

True Blue said:


> ^^What! they put it up to 33k now? Be thankful that your landlord can not read


Make that double :tongue3:


.... plus, half of the idiots renting in your part of the woods aren't paid more than me, they're just stupid enough to burn half or more of their incomes for some "fancy" neighborhoods ..... and then leave town broke.


----------



## True Blue

^^They are paying for a chapter in their life where they can wake early in the morning and take a stroll on the beach or constitutional among the million dollar yachts. Lots of nice things to do at night also that don't involve public transport. They are not in it for the long run, they are in it for the life experience 

Try it, you might like it kay:


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

True Blue said:


> ^^They are paying for a chapter in their life where they can wake early in the morning and take a stroll on the beach or constitutional among the million dollar yachts. Lots of nice things to do at night also that don't involve public transport. They are not in it for the long run, they are in it for the life experience
> 
> Try it, you might like it kay:


They might do it for the better lifestyle, but most return back to their home countries and realize they have no savings...


----------



## Saint_

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> They might do it for the better lifestyle, but most return back to their home countries and realize they have no savings...


Surely it's up to individuals to do proper research into the cost of living before deciding to relocate to Dubai? They certainly have favourable legal rights should they decide to terminate or at least not renew tenancy contracts.


----------



## AltinD

True Blue said:


> ^^They are paying for a chapter in their life where they can wake early in the morning and take a stroll on the beach or constitutional among the million dollar yachts. Lots of nice things to do at night also that don't involve public transport. They are not in it for the long run, they are in it for the life experience
> 
> Try it, you might like it kay:


Pffff, I drive daily to and from a place way further down south than Marina. I certainly can come there, park my car and do all that and more (and I'm already doing that). 

The point is that there are so many people sharing flats there by paying more than half their monthly income.

Why should I pay DOUBLE just for that non-really-a privilege? Is not as if the buildings and the apartments are better or anything. Plus, I rather have a fat bank balance than being neck-deep in debt as many of those Range Roger driving people are :lol:


----------



## True Blue

^^There is a balance to strike, you can't take it with you to the next life. People on their deathbed do not regret the money they spent on fulfilling ambitions. They regret the money they didn't spend and the time they did spend working every day just to exist.

Every time I stay in the Marina I enjoy getting up early and walking off the beers from the night before. An early morning swim in the sea is also a good way to invigorate yourself.


----------



## dubaiprojects

*residence visa*

How can one apply for this visa, it it online or you have to be present in dubai and how long the process takes so to plan for x days stay.

I heard there is a 1m requirement for title deed plus the 10 aed income proof.

There is 6 months and also 2 years; what are the fees respectively?

Does it require you to go out of dubai every 6 months ?

What if the title deed is joint but the share is more than a million for each.?


----------



## AltinD

True Blue said:


> ^^There is a balance to strike, you can't take it with you to the next life. People on their deathbed do not regret the money they spent on fulfilling ambitions. They regret the money they didn't spend and the time they did spend working every day just to exist.


Yeah, there's a balance, but spending all you got (and more) for the high life of keeping up with the Jonessys ain't it. :lol:


----------



## beer51

LOOK AWAY AltinD

*Luxury living never goes out of style in Dubai*

Developer of 118 Downtown looks to January to release Dh21m plus apartments

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/luxury-living-never-goes-out-of-style-in-dubai-1.1608529


----------



## AltinD

^^ Don't tell me, you are the target clientele .... right?


----------



## Rider

Just read an article on 'Dubai South' city. I couldn't see any threads on here and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this in terms of investment opportunity?


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Rider said:


> Just read an article on 'Dubai South' city. I couldn't see any threads on here and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this in terms of investment opportunity?


Its near the expo site and the new airport so it could be a good investment. I would wait for the construction of Al Maktoum Airport to start before buying anything though.


----------



## icemannapoli

I just got a message from DLD saying that they launched a new APP called "MASHROOI". This app actually updates us on all the Real Estate projects...I tried it and it works quite well!!


----------



## Rider

Hey guys,

Does anyone know how much it would cost (ballpark) to get a 1200 sq ft 2 bed apartment repainted? If anyone has any contacts who could help then please PM me. 

Many thanks


----------



## chefdude

Rider said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Does anyone know how much it would cost (ballpark) to get a 1200 sq ft 2 bed apartment repainted? If anyone has any contacts who could help then please PM me.
> 
> Many thanks



Approx AED 2,000


----------



## noir-dresses

Abu Dhabi Investment Authority Plans to Close London Office

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ent-authority-proposes-to-close-london-office


----------



## True Blue

^^The prolonged depressed oil price means they have no money to invest. Oil based wealth funds are shrinking meaning they need to consider selling investments to prop up their domestic economy.


----------



## noir-dresses

Way, way, waaay to reliant on oil.


----------



## Rider

True Blue said:


> Edit;
> 
> I just did a check based on the size of your apartment. The average rent for a 2 bed in the Marina is 160k for an average apartment area of 1450ft2. That renders a result of 110AED/ft. So the average rent for a 1200ft apartment is only in the order of 132k. As mentioned above, the Torch is beset with mitigating factors, so the offer isn't far off the mark.


Well we finally agreed on 130k so not such a bad result given that the pool is out of action and the on-going repair and construction work. If the index stays the same in a year's time then a 13k increase could be on the cards.

It really does highlight just how much damage the negligent individual who started the fire has caused on a number of different levels. I wonder if they are still living in the building or whether they ran for the hills.


----------



## True Blue

Rider said:


> Well we finally agreed on 130k so not such a bad result given that the pool is out of action and the on-going repair and construction work. If the index stays the same in a year's time then a 13k increase could be on the cards.
> 
> It really does highlight just how much damage the negligent individual who started the fire has caused on a number of different levels. I wonder if they are still living in the building or whether they ran for the hills.


Check the Torch thread. I posted an article about the Tamweel Tower repairs commencing now. In the article there is a mention of landlords of a 3 bed unit who has lost over 3 years rent at 200k per year. That is over £100,000 of lost income for one unit and still mounting. Taking a little hit on your unit rental is nothing when you consider these poor buggers.


----------



## UAE Investor

sgn7200 said:


> Thanks for listening to logic. You have neither the temperament nor the decency to appreciate other person's point of view. I appreciate your knowledge on issues relating to Dubai real estate matters. Please keep contributing to the well being of Dubai and you will get all round applause. Yes, one other thing. Don't use foul language in a public forum. It does not enhance your argument. It merely tarnishes your image. So let us close this subject.


i think you would maker any one swear actually!

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

sgn7200 said:


> Keep your cool. Even the Russians are dropping bombs to eliminate radicals. Who is getting killed? Only the God fearing poor innocent. Extremists are smart enough to save themselves . Look at the master mind of the Paris attack. He has smartly escaped. May be he is enjoying Kabab Shabab (Hoors/women) and Sharab (wine) at a sea side resort while we raise our blood pressure in arguments. Let me tell you one more time what I am saying. Dubai is a peace loving place and leave it that way. Anyone investing on the basis of economic or political considerations would rather look at in depth reports prevented by BBC or SKY NEWS or CNN reporters and I can tell you such reports are thoroughly researched before presentation. There are many other forums where radical political philosophies can be aired but PLEASE LRAVE THIS FORUM TO DISCUSS REAL ESTATE.


Your post was the least relevant to property. At least the topics we were discussing before were related to the region and how it affects the UAE. 

And just because Dubai is a place accepting of most religions and races, doesn't make it safe from terrorism. In August, 41 people were arrested in the UAE, who were trying to overthrow the government and create an Islamic caliphate with support from groups in Syria and Iran. They had even smuggled in weapons and ammunition, so the UAE still faces threats from extremists even from people within the UAE.


----------



## noir-dresses

OMG how did they manage to smuggle the weapons in?


----------



## chefdude

noir-dresses said:


> OMG how did they manage to smuggle the weapons in?


Errr both Saudi and Oman have large land borders with the UAE it's not exactly rocket science is it?


----------



## True Blue

If they can smuggle 1000's of fake handbags and watches, I'm sure the odd missile won't be a problem :lol:

Incidentally, during the boom years there was a big problem finding construction supplies and as a result many fake branded items came from China on the black market. Emaar and Nakheel banned anything coming from China being used on their sites, which caused other problems as some big European names use Chinese production factories. Hilti, to name one.


----------



## noir-dresses

chefdude said:


> Errr both Saudi and Oman have large land borders with the UAE it's not exactly rocket science is it?


and the Arabian Gulf sea routes come to mind...


----------



## Pleth

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> And just because Dubai is a place accepting of most religions and races, doesn't make it safe from terrorism. In August, 41 people were arrested in the UAE, who were trying to overthrow the government and create an Islamic caliphate with support from groups in Syria and Iran. They had even smuggled in weapons and ammunition, so the UAE still faces threats from extremists even from people within the UAE.


But in UAE they deal severely with the terrorists. I would not be surprised if they all receive the death penalty. 
And yet every terror attack in Paris has been masterminded by men already know to the police as extremists. 
In Europe it feels like an open border to terrorists and coincidental solutions with no law and order.

So where will we be in 10 years time? Or 20 years? I think *a lot * of people will leave Europe and seek jobs and better living standard in UAE, Bahrain, New Zealand, Australia, USA, Singapore and maybe even in China.
And if UAE is still taxfree, UAE will be at the top of countries people flee to. 

At work here in UAE we receive around 30 unsolicited job applications every single day!


----------



## noir-dresses

Pleth said:


> But in UAE they deal severely with the terrorists. I would not be surprised if they all receive the death penalty.
> And yet every terror attack in Paris has been masterminded by men already know to the police as extremists.
> In Europe it feels like an open border to terrorists and coincidental solutions with no law and order.
> 
> So where will we be in 10 years time? Or 20 years? I think *a lot * of people will leave Europe and seek jobs and better living standard in UAE, Bahrain, New Zealand, Australia, USA, Singapore and maybe even in China.
> And if UAE is still taxfree, UAE will be at the top of countries people flee to.
> 
> At work here in UAE we receive around 30 unsolicited job applications every single day!


Good point Pleth.

I really like the path Europe is taking now regarding the terrorists which is shot first, and ask questions later.

Next step is to restore diplomatic ties with the official governments of Syria, Iraq, and all the other countries the terrorists are coming from. Then strip all European citizenship's from potential, and active terrorist's/trouble makers, and ship them back to Syria, and Iraq.

I'm sure Assad will welcome them back with open arms, a very intense interrogation will take place, and the death penalty for treason.


----------



## luv2bebrown

Pleth said:


> So where will we be in 10 years time? Or 20 years? I think *a lot * of people will leave Europe and seek jobs and better living standard in UAE, Bahrain, New Zealand, Australia, USA, Singapore and maybe even in China.
> *And if UAE is still taxfree*, UAE will be at the top of countries people flee to.
> 
> At work here in UAE we receive around 30 unsolicited job applications every single day!


That is a big IF. The trend shows the exact opposite is happening.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

luv2bebrown said:


> That is a big IF. The trend shows the exact opposite is happening.


Yeah, I highly doubt the UAE will remain tax free. They are already considering introducing a VAT system.


----------



## Slimbo

It's pointless comparing Europe and the UAE.

Every time there's a terrorist attack in Europe, things are back to normal and everyone goes about their business after 2/3 days.

It would just take one attack by a small group of nutters angry at the "westernisation" of Arab culture in Dubai to completely destroy the tourist industry and have a large amount of expats fleeing back to their home countries.

Anyway, I'm sure if such (independent) data existed, you'd see a net migration of westerners out of the UAE in the last 2 years.


----------



## True Blue

^^ True! Look at what has happened to Tunisia and Egypt (Sharm El Sheikh). They don't need to be angry at the westernisation when UAE is officially an enemy of IS.


----------



## glover

I would rephrase that to" when the government of the UAE is officially.... "

If the government is opposed to and is actually fighting Daesh (though the unfortunate Yemen war is now sucking up most of the military's energy), that does not mean all the locals feel the same way. Look at Saudi, their biggest threat is not external, it is internal. I feel it's the same way here in the UAE.

IMO, Obama is the worst president America had when it comes to foreign policy, but he was right when he said the biggest threat for the Gulf countries comes from within! 



True Blue said:


> ^^ True! Look at what has happened to Tunisia and Egypt (Sharm El Sheikh). They don't need to be angry at the westernisation when UAE is officially an enemy of IS.


----------



## Pleth

Something really bad happened to my friends this week. They are a married couple living in a two bedroom rented apartment. 
Somebody knocked on their door in the afternoon and said they were not allowed to have visitors. (The wife's cousin and her friend were there). 

The man dressed in a disdas demanded to see their passports and because he looked like a local they did not object. He took photos of their passports and gave my friends an eviction notice of ONE week and said they would get fined 8.000 Dirhams as well! (They did NOT sublet the apartment.) My friends have even paid the rent up until mid January!
Not only will they loose their deposit, 2 months rent and 8,000 Dirhams in fine (app. 23,000 Dirhams), but I am really worried about the LAW in this instance. Or the lack of law!


The property owner is a huge Dubai company called Wasl Properties. Maybe even partly owned by the government, I am not sure?
Can they just evict people with one weeks notice?? Are they allowed to give out fines? (I though only the police could give out fines). Are all landlords allowed to give out fines?

My friends have stayed in the apartment for 3 years, the rent is 65.000 Dirhams a year however the new leases are signing for 90.000 Dirhams, so I guess somebody wants them out!

Of course we are going to take a case out in the Rent Committee, but I find it highly criticisable that this can happen in a modern society.
In that case I will warn anybody to rent from this company who uses shot-gun methods. 

Or maybe all landlords should start writing out fines to their tenants, - might be a nice little extra earner.


----------



## AltinD

^^ Did they contact Wasl? It's either fishy or there is more to the story.


----------



## Pleth

Yes they contacted Wasl, and wasted so far 3 days being pushed around from one Wasl office to another! 

But Wasl refuse to give them anything in writing. Only verbally they say "Pay 8,000 Aed fine and get out within one week". However some Wasl staff said two weeks. This is why we say we want it in writing. But they refuse. 
There was no eviction note on the door either. 

However I do actually think it is legal for landlords to impose fines on their tenants, if they write it in the contract. So I can recommend landlords to do this to make extra money ;-)


----------



## Rider

Pleth said:


> However I do actually think it is legal for landlords to impose fines on their tenants, if they write it in the contract. So I can recommend landlords to do this to make extra money ;-)


Isn't this just giving us 'greedy landlords' a bad name?

I personally would never entertain this idea because I would prefer to have good relations with my tenants and not seek to fleece them by issuing a penalty without due cause. Making deduction from the security deposit in the event of breakages should be sufficient.


----------



## UAE Investor

Quite simple you rent a 2 bed,and say i am going to have so many people living there and you have more, then you are breaking the law!

Just because you are not Asian low paid workers, stacked to the ceiling, does not make any difference imo!

:cheers:


----------



## Pleth

Rider:
Well I can see where this is going 

You can fine the tenants for playing loud music and for having guests staying. 
You just write it in the contract and then add (like Wasl did):
"In such cases, the Lessee shal be obliged to pay the Lessor an agreed upon penalty amounting to 3 months of the annual lease amount.
In addition, the Lessor shall have the right to retain the amount of the Security Deposit."


----------



## Pleth

UAE Investor said:


> Quite simple you rent a 2 bed,and say i am going to have so many people living there and you have more, then you are breaking the law!
> 
> Just because you are not Asian low paid workers, stacked to the ceiling, does not make any difference imo!
> 
> :cheers:


I know what you mean but there is a difference, this is a married couple living in a two-bedroom apt, and they have a guest room. They are not allowed to use the guest room?
I think every European person in Dubai Marina is breaking the rules then.

Anyway I am more worried about they can enforce fines and the shot-gun methods they are using.


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> Something really bad happened to my friends this week. They are a married couple living in a two bedroom rented apartment.
> Somebody knocked on their door in the afternoon and said they were not allowed to have visitors. (The wife's cousin and her friend were there).
> 
> The man dressed in a disdas demanded to see their passports and because he looked like a local they did not object. He took photos of their passports and gave my friends an eviction notice of ONE week and said they would get fined 8.000 Dirhams as well! (They did NOT sublet the apartment.) My friends have even paid the rent up until mid January!
> Not only will they loose their deposit, 2 months rent and 8,000 Dirhams in fine (app. 23,000 Dirhams), but I am really worried about the LAW in this instance. Or the lack of law!
> 
> 
> The property owner is a huge Dubai company called Wasl Properties. Maybe even partly owned by the government, I am not sure?
> Can they just evict people with one weeks notice?? Are they allowed to give out fines? (I though only the police could give out fines). Are all landlords allowed to give out fines?
> 
> My friends have stayed in the apartment for 3 years, the rent is 65.000 Dirhams a year however the new leases are signing for 90.000 Dirhams, so I guess somebody wants them out!
> 
> Of course we are going to take a case out in the Rent Committee, but I find it highly criticisable that this can happen in a modern society.
> In that case I will warn anybody to rent from this company who uses shot-gun methods.
> 
> Or maybe all landlords should start writing out fines to their tenants, - might be a nice little extra earner.


The answers to all your questions should be contained within the tenancy agreement. The only way that this could have been exposed is that the security have reported the tenant. People just don't turn up randomly and catch tenants with visitors.

I got a letter around one year ago from our building management stating that the law had changed and landlords were no longer allowed to accommodate tourists without the appropriate license. They advised that the security were instructed to watch out for tourists staying in apartments without the appropriate license. Everyone was asked to provide a copy of approval and license for short lets to help with the monitoring of visitors.

Allowing your own visitors to stay should be permitted in a normal tenancy, providing that the capacity of the apartment has not been exceeded. Read the small print of the tenancy, especially where the landlord owns the entire building and calls all the shots.


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> I know what you mean but there is a difference, this is a married couple living in a two-bedroom apt, and they have a guest room. They are not allowed to use the guest room?
> I think every European person in Dubai Marina is breaking the rules then.
> 
> Anyway I am more worried about they can enforce fines and the shot-gun methods they are using.


Just reading this again. If the rent is paid until January and they have the contract, then they could just defy the eviction order until the case is heard. If the landlord tries to use force to evict, then just call the Police and show the tenancy contract. Likewise, if the landlord calls the Police, display the paperwork which shows the tenant's right to occupy the property until the dispute is resolved through the correct channels.

Nowadays tenants have more rights than landlords and obtaining an eviction is very difficult. The landlord needs an eviction order from the rent committee afaik.

_"I think every European person in Dubai Marina is breaking the rules then."_

I don't know any tenancy contract from Private Landlords that prohibit occasional visitors. Therefore they can not be breaking the rules if it is not written into the contract. It seems that Wasl Properties may have a clause in their standard tenancy prohibiting visitors residing in the property. If this is true, then it could go either way in the rent committee.


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> The only way that this could have been exposed is that the security have reported the tenant. People just don't turn up randomly and catch tenants with visitors.


No, it was not a security guard. It a Wasl employee walking around knocking on all the doors. 
And to be honest I thought it was okay for a married couple to have a guest room for guests (without subletting).
But Wasl say that only sisters and parents are allowed to stay, not cousins, not friends or anybody else. 

The whole of Dubai Marina are breaking the law then. All my friends get visitors over from their home countries from time to time.

And I am shocked that a company can write out fines, like it was the police.


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> Just reading this again. If the rent is paid until January and they have the contract, then they could just defy the eviction order until the case is heard. If the landlord tries to use force to evict, then just call the Police and show the tenancy contract. Likewise, if the landlord calls the Police, display the paperwork which shows the tenant's right to occupy the property until the dispute is resolved through the correct channels.
> 
> Nowadays tenants have more rights than landlords and obtaining an eviction is very difficult. The landlord needs an eviction order from the rent committee afaik.
> 
> _"I think every European person in Dubai Marina is breaking the rules then."_
> 
> I don't know any tenancy contract from Private Landlords that prohibit occasional visitors. Therefore they can not be breaking the rules if it is not written into the contract. It seems that Wasl Properties may have a clause in their standard tenancy prohibiting visitors residing in the property. If this is true, then it could go either way in the rent committee.


I agree 100%. Thanks.
I look at this article and it seems that you cannot only give somebody a *verbal* eviction and a *verbal* fine.
http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...main-reasons-legal-expert-2014-08-19-1.559983

They should get an eviction order from the Rent Committee.


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> I agree 100%. Thanks.
> I look at this article and it seems that you cannot only give somebody a *verbal* eviction and a *verbal* fine.
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...main-reasons-legal-expert-2014-08-19-1.559983
> 
> They should get an eviction order from the Rent Committee.


Interesting article ^^

The thing I got out of it is that the proper eviction procedure was not followed by the landlord and is therefore invalid. The landlord must give 30 days notice *via a Notary Public* to correct the original violation and only if the tenant has not corrected the breach, then they can proceed to the rent tribunal to obtain an eviction order.

It never ceases to amaze me that large private landlord companies do not know, or refuse to follow the laws.


----------



## True Blue

Pleth said:


> No, it was not a security guard. It a Wasl employee walking around knocking on all the doors.
> And to be honest I thought it was okay for a married couple to have a guest room for guests (without subletting).
> But Wasl say that only sisters and parents are allowed to stay, not cousins, not friends or anybody else.
> 
> The whole of Dubai Marina are breaking the law then. All my friends get visitors over from their home countries from time to time.
> 
> And I am shocked that a company can write out fines, like it was the police.


I think we may be at cross purposes here. There is a difference between visitors and family. There is also a difference between visitors and multi occupancy tenants. Wasl may have been trying to crack down on the latter where people rent a large apartment and then rent out rooms.

There is no law that I am aware of that prevents visitors staying over and therefore the residents of Dubai Marina can not be breaking this law. Maybe someone knows something different.

It would however be possible for a landlord to ban the practice of allowing resident visitors outwith the immediate family, to try and prevent illegal sub tenants and room lets. I did look into this very subject a short time ago for someone and found that it is legal provided that the landlord has permitted it.


----------



## noir-dresses

A very good read,

A New Military Power Rises in the Mideast, Courtesy of One Man.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ower-rises-in-the-mideast-courtesy-of-one-man

Ludovic Subran, chief economist at Euler Hermes Group, the world’s biggest trade-credit insurer, said in Dubai this month that the U.A.E. is right to become more assertive: “external pressures are becoming harsh.”

If the country can’t preserve its safe-haven status, he said, “you have a big confidence issue, and so the brand, the shiny part of the U.A.E., isn’t interesting any more.”


----------



## beer51

Will these people ever learn:

*32-storey office high-rise on fire in Dubai's Business Bay; fire put out*

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...business-bay-fire-put-out-2015-11-25-1.611842


----------



## True Blue

^^There was a massive fire in Deira a few days ago. Right next to a petrol station!

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...ven-3-month-accommodation-2015-11-24-1.611580


----------



## True Blue

I have been getting emails from agents for Al Bateen Residences, the tower next to Double Tree Hotel on the JBR Beachfront. Prices being offered now as low as 1700AED/ft. At launch they were 3000AED/ft.

Just seems bonkers that other developers are steaming on with their off plan high rise beach front developments when there is limited interest in ready now properties.


----------



## prabhat patel

Any reason why you would choose Oceana over Tiara? I am thinking of buying a unit in one of these developments but they both seem pretty similar in terms of unit size, facilities, etc so can't figure out which one is better.


----------



## dubaiprojects

Morning TB,
In your opinion, is it a good time to buy in marina or jlt or shall we wait a bit more say end of Q1 2016 for better prices?
I been offered 1 bed @1.16m at lake side residence JLT . The unit has really nice view and is already rented for 80k.
Or should I go for a studio in silverene for 1.2m

cheers



True Blue said:


> I have been getting emails from agents for Al Bateen Residences, the tower next to Double Tree Hotel on the JBR Beachfront. Prices being offered now as low as 1700AED/ft. At launch they were 3000AED/ft.
> 
> Just seems bonkers that other developers are steaming on with their off plan high rise beach front developments when there is limited interest in ready now properties.[/url]


----------



## HonestTom

*Why Dubai*

I'm a looong time reader here- thank you all for your contributions.

I've also been investing in Dubai Real estate since 2004 for richer or for poorer 

But when I review this ten year stretch, it really hasn't been comparable to Europe for us in terms of capital appreciation.

In 2004 and 2005 we bought:

Offices (cost aed 800/psf sell today 1000/psf), 
1 beds (cost 590k each, sell today 690K)
5 Apartments in marina (cost 2.9m each sell today 4.2 maybe)

These units had peaked in 2008 and its worth mentioning the prices they had hit:

Offices were selling at around 1800/psf just before the collapse
Our 1 beds were selling at 1.2 million each
Apartments we have in the marina had hit 6 million each.



If someone had said buy an apartment from us today and sell it in ten years time for a 20% gain. We probably would have given it a miss to be honest.

Even if say, by 2020 prices rise to 2008 peak its still best part of two decades for a very limited return.

I just think with all the risk associated in the region there is not a compelling return for the bold investor, in hindsight.

In fact in some ways the investor is penalised (rents etc)


----------



## HonestTom

From the above, if you could time your entry and exit well there is clearly a lot of money to be made, and I know some of you have - kudos to you!

....But we were always told real estate is a long hold play.

In my view Dubai's market is different in that sense. 

While there'll be clever winners in this property market, there'll be normal people who have held property here for more then ten years at some point who are still not in profit I guess.

Yet even at current levels, people are saying Dubai is expensive and needs to correct.... Why invest?


----------



## tony501

*Large Tenant Can also screw you*



True Blue said:


> I think we may be at cross purposes here. There is a difference between visitors and family. There is also a difference between visitors and multi occupancy tenants. Wasl may have been trying to crack down on the latter where people rent a large apartment and then rent out rooms.
> 
> There is no law that I am aware of that prevents visitors staying over and therefore the residents of Dubai Marina can not be breaking this law. Maybe someone knows something different.
> 
> It would however be possible for a landlord to ban the practice of allowing resident visitors outwith the immediate family, to try and prevent illegal sub tenants and room lets. I did look into this very subject a short time ago for someone and found that it is legal provided that the landlord has permitted it.


We are owners in hotel appartments in Movenpick Jumeriah Lake Towers (Laguna Tower). Our 166 units are with IFA Properties. They are not paying their 8% Guaranteed Payment. IN other words the LEASE on the appartments. This is the other way around a LARGE tenant refuses to pay the lease and it appears we can do nothing about it in Dubai:bash:


----------



## True Blue

^^I'm sure there is something you can do about it, it sounds like a straight forward case. The problem will be that it's perhaps not financially viable for you to take legal action to recover the few percent shortfall. If your 166 units were in one holding company, then you could take legal action on all 166 units together, however if the units are all owned by individuals then you would need to open 166 separate cases in the court.

As this is a "commercial lease" and not a true tenancy agreement, I doubt you have any recourse through the rent tribunal.


----------



## Pleth

HonestTom said:


> I'm a looong time reader here- thank you all for your contributions.
> 
> I've also been investing in Dubai Real estate since 2004 for richer or for poorer
> 
> But when I review this ten year stretch, it really hasn't been comparable to Europe for us in terms of capital appreciation.
> 
> In 2004 and 2005 we bought:.....
> 
> If someone had said buy an apartment from us today and sell it in ten years time for a 20% gain. We probably would have given it a miss to be honest.


Interesting, thanks. 
Didn't you get a good rental income on the units?
I guess it is difficult to predict what could have happened if you had invested in i.e. London instead? Or to predict about the future. Do people still want to invest in Brussels and Paris? Are prices coming down there because of fear of terror?
I certainly feel more safe in Dubai.


----------



## noir-dresses

After what happened in Paris, and Brussels what European in their right mind would want to invest in the Middle East? Average Europeans don't want anything to do with the place, plus we're getting tired of refugees also.

Tony90 the reason your rentals are down is simply because Dubai doesn't have the tourist's it usually does meaning no tourists no income. It's basically high season now, and you can notice the people are just not coming like before. You can even notice this in the malls, cafes, restaurants. I can just imagine how the retail sector is getting hit hard. The local economy, and it's hotels are also very dependent on tourists arriving in large numbers. 

Even the local guest workers are starting to lose jobs. The UAE is starting to see a spike in runners again leaving the country. 

In 2009 it was simply the economy busting, now the addition of war, and uncertainty is also part of the mix.

As much as the UAE would want it self to believe it's not oil reliant it's really starting to show that's not the case. Oil could stagnate for the next five years as well. They simply don't know how to make, create, and innovate which will see they're reserves dwindle until oil price go back up again.

Twenty five percent of the Dubai economy is reliant on real estate which is dead in the water at the moment. First prices dropped, now rentals like we saw before are dropping. It's not good. 

Emirates Airline which also brings a lot to the Dubai economy is very vulnerable at the moment as well. Everything from flying to the most Middle Eastern destinations than any other airline on Earth, North America, and Europe trying to cut their wings, access to financing. What happened in Sharm el Sheik was an eye opener of asking ourselves who is really working in Middle Eastern airports, and could they possibly be ISIS sympathizers??? No commercial orders being placed at the DAS was clear example of the reality. The only real order of significance at the DAS was two military purpose Airborne Radar aircraft purchased.

Honestly I'd rather pay my taxes in Europe, and feel safe/free/and secure than be a guest in a country where the system is only meant to benefit a certain few.


----------



## Slimbo

Pleth said:


> Did you know that Sweden now has the highest rape rate in the world?


Highest reported rape rate in the world is more accurate.

I'm sure the statistics would look wildly different if you included all of the raping that happens in parts of the world where rape victims are punished because they were wearing short skirts and therefore deserved it, did not have 3 male witnesses or are housemaids and therefore their lives are deemed worthless, so the victims have to suffer in silence. Oh, and once you include parts of the world where it's legal to rape your spouse too I suppose.


----------



## sgn7200

Slimbo said:


> Highest reported rape rate in the world is more accurate.
> 
> I'm sure the statistics would look wildly different if you included all of the raping that happens in parts of the world where rape victims are punished because they were wearing short skirts and therefore deserved it, did not have 3 male witnesses or are housemaids and therefore their lives are deemed worthless, so the victims have to suffer in silence. Oh, and once you include parts of the world where it's legal to rape your spouse too I suppose.


You are discussing rape and telling us to listen to your nonsense because you specialise on such global issues. My suggestion to you would be go to Hyde Park Corner and blow your head off and I can promise you will meet many like minded rumour mongers. Please, both of you, enough is enough.


----------



## True Blue

Slimbo said:


> Highest reported rape rate in the world is more accurate.
> 
> I'm sure the statistics would look wildly different if you included all of the raping that happens in parts of the world where rape victims are punished because they were wearing short skirts and therefore deserved it, did not have 3 male witnesses or are housemaids and therefore their lives are deemed worthless, so the victims have to suffer in silence. Oh, and once you include parts of the world where it's legal to rape your spouse too I suppose.


You have a point about the low crime rate simply because people in Sharia countries are fearful of reporting rape in case they are locked up. The worst cases of rape in the UK have been committed by immigrants from Sharia countries. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-appalling-acts-of-depravity-on-children.html

UK tv channels have been focusing on the problems and running documentaries about the level of rape that goes unpunished in countries like India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. In the latter it is mainly homosexual rape on young boys. Nothing is done about it, however in the UAE I know that one local man was given the death sentence and promptly executed for such an offence. That type of swift justice is what's needed to stop the heinous crime from spreading as it has in other middle eastern states. But still more needs to be done to toughen up the law, particularly with property laws and driving law.

Without trying to digress too far, a story that shocked me about Dubai was when a local drunk driver knocked down and killed an immigrant. He never even bothered to turn up for the trial and received a slap on the Wrist in absentia. That level of corruption does worry me, but then again show me a country in Europe where driving fines bribes or property corruption on a massive scale doesn't exist. Maybe Greece, Italy or even Spain. :lol:


----------



## Pleth

Please see in red colour:


Slimbo said:


> Highest reported rape rate in the world is more accurate. Well it may still be the highest in Sweden.
> 
> I'm sure the statistics would look wildly different if you included all of the raping that happens in parts of the world where rape victims are punished because they were wearing short skirts Yes this is exactly what happens in Sweden and therefore deserved it, did not have 3 male witnesses or are housemaids and therefore their lives are deemed worthless, so the victims have to suffer in silence. Maybe you should think before you write! Surely it cannot get any worse than being raped 20 times a day in i.e. Amsterdam? Try and goggle Sex Slaves Europe http://www.humantrafficking.org/updates/773 Where is the law???


----------



## noir-dresses

Pleth said:


> I am really happy that you guys feel so secure about the future in Europe. And I hope that you guys are right because what the news tell me is the entire opposite. But then again I don't watch BBC, I watch other channels.
> And Noir-Dresses seems to have a lot of family who can tell the "real" truth about salaries and tourism in Dubai, so no need to watch the news or search the facts I guess.
> 
> 
> Maybe we can all agree that the property marked in Dubai is all controlled by Rera, who is now able to turn the marked up and down simply by adjusting the rent barometer or by lowering the registration fee from 4 per cent?
> I think Rera's plan is to try and keep the living costs down (including the rent) for the workers here, including somebody's niece. Therefore the landlords are bound to suffer.
> But it may benefit us all in the long run so that Noir-Dresses niece and other young and ambitious workers will stay here. And then they will all need apartments to live in!! :cheers:
> 
> 
> What I don't understand is why you don't sell your properties in Dubai and buy instead in UK, France, Sweden, Germany?? The collapsed Euro will make it even better.
> I am sure you can buy something really cheap in Calais, or one of the Greek Islands, or in the 751 No-Go Sharia controlled zones in France, or the 55 No-Go Zones in Sweden.
> Did you know that Sweden now has the highest rape rate in the world?
> 
> Have you watched this short documentary? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIB4A-468jU


Why are you bringing me up in this?

BTW my niece is going to London after all. When I asked her why she simply answered "London is London" She basically had enough of living in Dubai.

Also what makes you believe that we don't already own properties in these lovely Western Countries you mention?


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> Without trying to digress too far, a story that shocked me about Dubai was when a local drunk driver knocked down and killed an immigrant. He never even bothered to turn up for the trial and received a slap on the Wrist in absentia. That level of corruption does worry me, but then again show me a country in Europe where driving fines bribes or property corruption on a massive scale doesn't exist. Maybe Greece, Italy or even Spain. :lol:


Where did you read this story?


----------



## Pleth

noir-dresses said:


> Why are you bringing me up in this?
> 
> BTW my niece is going to London after all. When I asked her why she simply answered "London is London" She basically had enough of living in Dubai.
> 
> Also what makes you believe that we don't already own properties in these lovely Western Countries you mention?


Funny coincidence, my nephew just moved to Dubai as he was fed up with the weather and the taxes in UK. :lol:

I did not say you don't have properties in Europe, I said I don't understand why you don't *sell *your properties in Dubai and buy instead in UK, France, Sweden, Germany?? The collapsed Euro will make it even better.
I am sure you can buy something really cheap in Calais, or one of the Greek Islands, or in the 751 No-Go Sharia controlled zones in France, or the 55 No-Go Zones in Sweden.


----------



## noir-dresses

There you go, some people come, and some people leave which is normal. It's always been that way because it's a transient country, nothing new there. Sooner, or later your nephew will go home as well.

Also what's to say I wouldn't sell my apartment in Dubai, that's something that's always on the table as well. Would be nice that the real estate prices were a little more stable, but their not. 

Has any one ever realized how difficult it can be sometimes to get out of the real estate market in Dubai? A lot of factors are stacked against owners of properties like if you have a tenant you might need to give an eviction notice a year in advance after waiting one year. Mortgage buyers who can take forever to be approved by banks. Even if a mortgage buyer signs a MOU they can walk away with no penalty if the banks evaluation is lower than the offer which is also a waste of time because a clause in the contract protects the buyer. Unprofessional brokers who's planning, and organizations skills are not up to par. Some times it can be the seller thinks the prices are to low, and decides to wait for the next spike in prices which can takes years at a time. 

Add uncertainty to this factor, and obviously investors can be jittery. 

I think in the end everyone knows where they want to be, where they feel happy, successful, content, and comfortable. To each their own.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Slimbo said:


> So essentially, your argument is that people in Europe will get fed up with too many Muslims living in their country..... so they will move to a Muslim country to get away from the Muslims? :lol:


Yeah, I don't understand what he's trying to say. Europeans trying to get away from Muslims aren't going to move to a Muslim country.... That argument doesn't make sense.


----------



## Rider

Slimbo said:


> Highest reported rape rate in the world is more accurate.
> 
> I'm sure the statistics would look wildly different if you included all of the raping that happens in parts of the world where rape victims are punished because they were wearing short skirts and therefore deserved it, did not have 3 male witnesses or are housemaids and therefore their lives are deemed worthless, so the victims have to suffer in silence. Oh, and once you include parts of the world where it's legal to rape your spouse too I suppose.


The laws around rape in Sweden are very different to many other countries. One person can in theory be accused of rape if formal consent wasn't obtained from the other party. I'll bet Julian wishes he got a signature on the dotted line now :lol: Sweden also has a very strong feminist movement many of whom have a reputation as being 'men haters' and promote whistleblowing at every opportunity which probably explains the high number of reported cases.

Back to the subject matter in hand. Does AED 750k seem like a good price for a studio in Lake Terrace in JLT or will prices continue to fall? Low floor, balcony and full lake view.


----------



## luv2bebrown

sgn7200 said:


> You are discussing rape and telling us to listen to your nonsense because you specialise on such global issues. My suggestion to you would be go to Hyde Park Corner and blow your head off and I can promise you will meet many like minded rumour mongers. Please, both of you, enough is enough.


Why Hyde Park? What's wrong with Safa park?


----------



## HonestTom

Tenant gave us a cheque and so we signed contract a month in advance for them to renew.

Cheque bounced. Tenant said no no please 100% cash it in a week.
Cheque bounced. Tenant said sorry sorry 100% cash it on the 15th.

And so on and so forth.

Today it is being collected from the bank for the 4th time.

Tenant cuts any calls made to them. 

Tenant has a signed contract so is fine for services and registrations.

LL bad, tenant good.


----------



## Pleth

Rider said:


> Back to the subject matter in hand. Does AED 750k seem like a good price for a studio in Lake Terrace in JLT or will prices continue to fall? Low floor, balcony and full lake view.


I think prices will continue to fall. Just my opinion.


----------



## noir-dresses

Yesterday I sold a dress to a lady who's husband worksi n Abu Dhabi in the oil and gas industry. Had a chat with the husband, and he said his company layed off 20,000 employees this year, and they are expectingt o lay off another 12,000 employees next year. These are all people who lived, and rented somewhere. A lot of these people livedi n Dubai as well. This is just one company that effect the rental market.


----------



## noir-dresses

HonestTom said:


> Tenant gave us a cheque and so we signed contract a month in advance for them to renew.
> 
> Cheque bounced. Tenant said no no please 100% cash it in a week.
> Cheque bounced. Tenant said sorry sorry 100% cash it on the 15th.
> 
> And so on and so forth.
> 
> Today it is being collected from the bank for the 4th time.
> 
> Tenant cuts any calls made to them.
> 
> Tenant has a signed contract so is fine for services and registrations.
> 
> LL bad, tenant good.


When you pick up the bounced cheque from the bank ask for an official written statement that the cheque bounced, and take it to the police. 

Looks like the tenant is playing the broken telephone trick on you.


----------



## Rider

^^ Are the police in Dubai actually responsive to this sort of complaint or do they suggest getting a lawyer like in other countries?


----------



## noir-dresses

Rider said:


> ^^ Are the police in Dubai actually responsive to this sort of complaint or do they suggest getting a lawyer like in other countries?


A bounced cheque is a bounced cheque which is against the law. The first thing the police can do is prevent the individual with the bounced cheque to leave the country. Second they will force him to pay up, or find a way to pay or else it's the slammer. The landlord also has the power now to end his rental contract with the tenant if he feels that's a better option. Once he has a written document from the bank that the cheque bounced the ball is in his court, he didn't do anything wrong, and the law stands behind him.


----------



## noir-dresses

OPEC Unity Shattered as Saudi-Led Policy Leads to No Limits.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-saudi-led-policy-leads-to-no-limits-ihs9xu51

Here we go people, volatility in the market is going to stay while the big boys battle it out on the home front. 

We can only speculate how long this will last. 

The positive side to this is they always have the power to cut out put, and raise prices at the drop of a hat, but no body wants to lose market share at the moment.


----------



## Freestyler

noir-dresses said:


> OPEC Unity Shattered as Saudi-Led Policy Leads to No Limits.
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-saudi-led-policy-leads-to-no-limits-ihs9xu51
> 
> Here we go people, volatility in the market is going to stay while the big boys battle it out on the home front.
> 
> We can only speculate how long this will last.
> 
> The positive side to this is they always have the power to cut out put, and raise prices at the drop of a hat, but no body wants to lose market share at the moment.


I wouldn't be surprised if oil falls to USD10/barrel


----------



## Freestyler

More detail here: http://www.wsj.com/articles/opec-meeting-ends-with-no-production-cuts-1449248892

OPEC is demanding everyone cuts production, which make sense. Few members cutting production won't have much effect on the price.


----------



## sgn7200

Calling Dubai Steve and AltinD and others with good knowledge of Real Estate matters in Dubai, can you please share your knowledge as to what is happening with projects in Culture Village particularly ex-DEC projects eg Cascade Ville, Cascade Manor etc. taken over by Goldline. For the last nearly 18 months, Goldline have been saying we expect formalities to be completed in two months after which we shall start construction work. These two months never seem to finish. Can someone please let us know as to what is happening both at Culture Village and ex-DEC projects in Culture Village.


----------



## luv2bebrown

The night said:


> David Brents salesforce.


:lol: I have to admit this is pretty good.


----------



## Sid

The night said:


> Exactly! Why did you bother to reply so promptly? You and Dubai Steve. Who is covering for who? You really are a bunch of greedy, narcassistic psychopaths aren't you! David Brents salesforce. Delusional is an understatement


^^

Welcome back John, we missed you! :nuts:


----------



## Mistermark

Rider said:


> Welcome back Mark.


Thanks. I'm just toying with the question of whether Dubai property may be trending back down to a price where I'd be happy to come back in. This time, completed units only, and nothing developed by the lying scammer Rahail Aslam...


----------



## UAE Investor

The night said:


> Exactly! Why did you bother to reply so promptly? You and Dubai Steve. Who is covering for who? You really are a bunch of greedy, narcassistic psychopaths aren't you! David Brents salesforce. Delusional is an understatement


So AltinD Works for select property,s...mod here,Really?:laugh:


----------



## AltinD

^^ Wait, you didn't know that? :eek2:


----------



## UAE Investor

AltinD said:


> ^^ Wait, you didn't know that? :eek2:


i was goading the night but he did,nt bite!


----------



## Freestyler

Feds have raised the interest rate. Let's see how this affects the markets in next 3 months.


----------



## luv2bebrown

^^I heard an interesting analysis that low interest rates enabled investors to borrow in the US, and invest in asia. More interest rate hikes could eliminate that practice (IF true. I have no idea).


----------



## Curious_dxb

Fellas what do you think a good price per sq ft is for a 1 bed in Ubora at the moment? 

Anyone heard of any issues in that residential tower?


----------



## UAE Investor

Curious_dxb said:


> Fellas what do you think a good price per sq ft is for a 1 bed in Ubora at the moment?
> 
> Anyone heard of any issues in that residential tower?


Sale234, sold every square foot of that tower.

He not around here any more.

Its down town so should be a better development

sure there is a thread here?

somewhere!

:cheers:


----------



## Curious_dxb

UAE Investor said:


> Sale234, sold every square foot of that tower.
> 
> He not around here any more.
> 
> Its down town so should be a better development
> 
> sure there is a thread here?
> 
> somewhere!
> 
> :cheers:


Thanks buddy!

Ive had a look around this forum and from what I've seen, handover price in 2011 was 1000 / sq ft. Now I see sellers are asking for almost 1300 / sq ft which seems a bit high given current market conditions.. I do not have much experience in this field though. Haven't found any recent posts or threads on the building.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

*No drop in average Dubai property prices in November*

Average property prices in Dubai showed no decline in November, the first month since the start of a market correction in March 2014, according to a new report

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/no-drop-in-average-dubai-property-prices-in-november-615002.html


----------



## UAE Investor

Curious_dxb said:


> Thanks buddy!
> 
> Ive had a look around this forum and from what I've seen, handover price in 2011 was 1000 / sq ft. Now I see sellers are asking for almost 1300 / sq ft which seems a bit high given current market conditions.. I do not have much experience in this field though. Haven't found any recent posts or threads on the building.


this is the only one in completed

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=337299&page=72

:cheers:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Reidin, Dubai’s major property data provider, said yesterday that developers supplied just 9,397 units in 2015 – compared with start-of-the-year projections from other sources that 25,000 units would be handed over. 

...

Supply will continue to be pushed back as developers respond to declining prices by delaying existing projects,” Reidin said in its report. “Fears of oversupply are exaggerated, especially given the fact that a robust and expansionary fiscal policy will continue to lead to job creation,” it said. 

While Dubai developers plan to deliver more than 25,000 new units in 2016, Reidin believes that only 31 per cent of this will materialise – or about 7,500 units, even fewer than this year’s new supply. 

“If demand continues to outstrip supply we [believe] that prices will begin to accelerate again,” Reidin said in a report.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/new-twist-in-dubais-property-data-row


----------



## luv2bebrown

Dubai_Steve said:


> Reidin, Dubai’s major property data provider, said yesterday that developers supplied just 9,397 units in 2015 – compared with start-of-the-year projections from other sources that 25,000 units would be handed over.
> 
> ...
> 
> Supply will continue to be pushed back as developers respond to declining prices by delaying existing projects,” Reidin said in its report. “Fears of oversupply are exaggerated, especially given *the fact that a robust and expansionary fiscal policy will continue to lead to job creation*,” it said.
> 
> While Dubai developers plan to deliver more than 25,000 new units in 2016, Reidin believes that only 31 per cent of this will materialise – or about 7,500 units, even fewer than this year’s new supply.
> 
> “If demand continues to outstrip supply we [believe] that prices will begin to accelerate again,” Reidin said in a report.
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/new-twist-in-dubais-property-data-row


Utter nonsense.


----------



## The night

*Yes luv2bebrown, your right, you can't make sense out of non-sense*



luv2bebrown said:


> Utter nonsense.


Here's more blatant lies from Dubai Steve's boss, yes , the man himself, all the way from Manchester, Mr nice guy, and all round "man about town" spouting more porkies than ever before!
Rahail's latest press interview (includes a really flattering picture of his squint nose) when he says;

"Completing on time is paramount for us. We have obligations to people who have paid us for properties and they want the keys. Our on-time record is good, if not perfect!

Can you believe this? What about The Torch Rahail? 3 years late and with an illegal addendum that permitted you to steal scores of apartments from investors and leave them with SFA? What about The Point? What about Bay Central? The list goes on. How you get away with this is beyond belief. But you do don't you?

You say you have obligations to people who have paid you for properties, it's a shame you did not honour those obligations. As I was told by Paul Brady, "if you don't sign the addendum you don't get the keys" I thought he was joking. He wasn't. He's still got my keys and my money. Yes Mr Brady, I'll bet you are a very happy man. Maybe your not though? Maybe you don't sleep well at night?
Maybe pigs will fly?

http://www.arabianindustry.com/construction/interviews/2015/jul/4/face-to-face-rahail-aslam-select-group-5086614/?artpno=3#.Vnm5qlLovcs


----------



## True Blue

^^This is why I have no sympathy for anyone who continues to buy off plan from Select. They have no morals whatsoever. Their MO is the same on every project. Release information on ridiculous delivery timescales and promise the absolute pinnacle of luxury. Then go ahead and deliver crap between 3 and 6 years late. GUARANTEED!


----------



## UAE Investor

Dubai_Steve said:


> Average property prices in Dubai showed no decline in November, the first month since the start of a market correction in March 2014, according to a new report
> 
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/no-drop-in-average-dubai-property-prices-in-november-615002.html


Hi steve ...your still my friend right!

I think in the end select have delivered good profits for landlords and investors....!

Those who have the bottle that is?

Lets face it, investing in property in Dubai is a bit of a racket ...and if select have the upper hand in that, then so be it!

:cheers:


----------



## The night

True Blue said:


> ^^This is why I have no sympathy for anyone who continues to buy off plan from Select. They have no morals whatsoever. Their MO is the same on every project. Release information on ridiculous delivery timescales and promise the absolute pinnacle of luxury. Then go ahead and deliver crap between 3 and 6 years late. GUARANTEED!


 
If people are still buying off-plan with Select they have obviously never looked at this website, if they have never looked at this website or considered that Select might be dodgy then they are very naïve investors, so maybe you should feel sorry for them? Nobody deserves to be ripped off whether they are naïve or not!

I have met with Paul Brady. He is without doubt the most arrogant individual I have ever come across. A bona fide psychopath who was obviously hand picked for the role he has in Select Group. We will meet again Paul, I'm very much looking forward to it, and it will be under very different circumstances I can assure you.


----------



## noir-dresses

I predict in the future apartment buildings with the unsafe aluminum cladding will drop significantly because once educated potential buyers catch on they are of high risk to destructive fires.

Yes these buildings might of passed poorly regulated building codes before, but once the standard of safe fire resistant cladding comes into effect who will want to buy into a building with the potential of burning.

On the other hand glass clad buildings will shine, and be more sought after.


----------



## Josau

I am still not sure the issue is solely the cladding , it is also all the insulation materials underneath. So glass might not be the best solution. Interesting: most EMAAR buildings have no cladding. The Address was sort of an exception.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

noir-dresses said:


> I predict in the future apartment buildings with the unsafe aluminum cladding will drop significantly because once educated potential buyers catch on they are of high risk to destructive fires.
> 
> Yes these buildings might of passed poorly regulated building codes before, but once the standard of safe fire resistant cladding comes into effect who will want to buy into a building with the potential of burning.
> 
> On the other hand glass clad buildings will shine, and be more sought after.


70% of all towers in Dubai are said to be affected by flammable insulation materials under the cladding, so any price drop would likely affect all or most towers pre 2013 before the new regulations came in.


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai_Steve said:


> 70% of all towers in Dubai are said to be affected by flammable insulation materials under the cladding, so any price drop would likely affect all or most towers pre 2013 before the new regulations came in.


Bingo


----------



## True Blue

^^I know Dorrabay isn't a composite panel, it is just a single skin of cold formed aluminium with an enamel coating. A cheaper option than composite panels with the sandwich filling of flammable foam. At the time of construction, I wasn't happy about using the single skin cladding. But now! :banana:

Composite panels look much better and are far more rigid, keeping a true line and are difficult to damage. Single skin panels are easily damaged by these abseiling window cleaners. Composite panels are good at keeping the heat out and the cold in during the summer months, making them far more energy efficient. 

Buildings covered in glass are a nightmare to keep cool in the summer and cost a fortune to air condition. Double glazing in a hot country is just as shit as single glazing, but helps to retain heat at night and attenuate outside noise. Glass doesn't burn, but it does explode when exposed to flames. Check out how many windows survived the tower fires.

Pros and cons for every building material.


----------



## noir-dresses

Regarding glass buildings Scott l think it's still better the windows crack/shatter then fire spreading, and ravaging the whole building.

All in all this is a problem that needs to be solved, and quickly. It's just a matter of time before the next building goes up in flames because it's a pattern.


----------



## noir-dresses

On a different note the uncontrollable factors that can effect the real estate market in Dubai.

China starts the year off with a seven percent stock market plunge shutting down the system.

Iran and the KSA war of words are esculating rapidly. Just when you think the Yemen conflict is at its close.

Oil predicted to fall under 30 USD a barrel.

RERA rent calculator heading downwards.

2016 will be an interesting year to watch.


----------



## Saint_

noir-dresses said:


> Oil predicted to fall under 30 USD a barrel.
> 
> RERA rent calculator heading downwards.
> 
> 2016 will be an interesting year to watch.


Indeed. The possible/probable decline in oil price will eventually filter through to raw materials thus reducing construction costs. Maybe some developers will then get real with their off-plan prices.


----------



## Richard Head

So the new RERA calculator is out (partially). As far as I can tell it's not complete (tried to look at Villa on Arabian Ranches and it gets as far as selecting number of bedrooms and then gets stuck). But for the parts that are done, it seems all they have done is tweaked the ranges down by 5 or 10%. What happened to the plan to set more parameters (sq ft, sea view or not, etc)? :bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:


----------



## noir-dresses

Richard Head said:


> So the new RERA calculator is out (partially). As far as I can tell it's not complete (tried to look at Villa on Arabian Ranches and it gets as far as selecting number of bedrooms and then gets stuck). But for the parts that are done, it seems all they have done is tweaked the ranges down by 5 or 10%. What happened to the plan to set more parameters (sq ft, sea view or not, etc)? :bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:


Richard if your renting, and your active rents are on the upscale of the rental chart just try to get the same rent. If worst comes to worst go down/lock in at 5-10 percent max because the rents will not be rising for a while to come. They will keep going down even further.

Unfortunately no body in Dubai cares about size, view, and renovations sad to say. 

Good luck


----------



## Dubai_Steve

> Glass cladding also is not a perfect solution as there is also a risk that fire can spread from one floor to another.


Perhaps the solution of retro fitting external sprinklers is required for all buildings?



> And in 2013 Civil Defence chiefs announced an extension to existing fire safety codes requiring owners of high-rise buildings with flammable cladding to install a ring of fire retardant panels every three floors, to stop fires spreading, and external sprinklers.


----------



## AITU

^^ The flammability issue is compounded further by the standard application of bitumen paint (regularly cut with diesel) to waterproof these buildings prior to them being clad.


----------



## beer51

*Dubai rents drop in 2016 Rera index*

Rera rent index has just been updated; find out how much your rent is going to cost this year
Published: 12:24 January 4, 2016 

Dubai: Rents in most of Dubai’s residential communities, particularly freehold areas, will likely be cheaper this year compared to 2015.

The rental calculator by the Dubai Land Department’s Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) has just been updated to provide the leasing rates for various apartments and villas in 2016.

The calculator, which serves as an online tool for determining rental increases, suggests some price ranges and advises tenants whether or not they are entitled to an increase this year.

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/dubai-rents-drop-in-2016-rera-index-1.1647903


----------



## True Blue

AITU said:


> ^^ The flammability issue is compounded further by the standard application of bitumen paint (regularly cut with diesel) to waterproof these buildings prior to them being clad.


They shouldn't be using bitumen or rubber based waterproofing liquids unless it is for priming the surface to receive tanking membranes. Tanking membranes are normally applied below the ground in basements, especially near the marina water. Above the ground they should be applying water based waterproofing emulsions.


----------



## Freestyler

I wish RERA make the rental by building. Average rental is 115K for similar apartment in same building but can't raise the rental because average for the area is less. Luxury properties and building are at disadvantage with current rental index method.


----------



## Richard Head

RERA index now updated for villas. A quick check on Arabian Ranches shows that they have set the index about 50k above what the market is asking. This is comparing mid price of the RERA ranges with the average actual asking price on Dubizzle. Assuming most villas will be negotiated down by 10 or 20k from asking price, the difference might actually be greater than 50k.

For example 5 bed villas on AR are showing as 330k - 380k as per RERA (no change from last year's index). We just renewed our lease in November, asked the landlord to drop from 300k to 280k and he agreed in a heartbeat. And ours is the biggest type Saheel, with a pool.

Makes no sense whatsoever.


----------



## True Blue

^^Similarly, one bed in the marina is now quoted as being in the range of 90-110k. I signed up a new tenant at 132k in September. The tenancy was registered with ejari, so the data is with Rera. They only adjusted the top end figure by reducing it from 120k to 110k, suggesting that it was the only area affected and that the bottom of the market did not change at 90k. It's totally wrong, as I know some people moved to the marina last year and are only paying 75k for a one bed in a low end building.

IMO, the market is not going down, it is just maturing. Owners of tiny flats can no longer get away with charging over the odds because there are plenty of empty units where the landlord will negotiate based on its merits. Owners of high end units are maintaining good rentals on new tenancies, but will ultimately suffer where an existing tenant is in residence for a few years and will not need to pay the full market value due to the legalised 10% automatic discount.


----------



## noir-dresses

Saudi Arabia faces 'economic bomb' 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/05/new...il-budget-gas/index.html?iid=surge-stack-intl

A good insight at what's happening next door in the KSA.


----------



## UAE Investor

http://inside.jumeirah.com/en/hotel...nt&utm_campaign={BAA}-Jumeirah_Inside-Q4-2015


----------



## noir-dresses

U.S. crude futures tumbling towards 25 USD. China is leading the world into another economic crisis.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

noir-dresses said:


> Saudi Arabia faces 'economic bomb'
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/05/new...il-budget-gas/index.html?iid=surge-stack-intl
> 
> A good insight at what's happening next door in the KSA.


Part of me hopes the oil price remains low for the next few years, so that the Saudi economy collapses, and Saudi's realize how terrible their ruling family really is. The fall of the House of Saud might be good for the region as well, as there would be less funding of terrorism. 

I also hope the GCC countries learn how inefficiently they are running their economies and make major changes. Cutting utility and petrol subsidies, and introducing a few new taxes might not be enough anymore.


----------



## noir-dresses

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> Part of me hopes the oil price remains low for the next few years, so that the Saudi economy collapses, and Saudi's realize how terrible their ruling family really is. The fall of the House of Saud might be good for the region as well, as there would be less funding of terrorism.
> 
> I also hope the GCC countries learn how inefficiently they are running their economies and make major changes. Cutting utility and petrol subsidies, and introducing a few new taxes might not be enough anymore.


It's funny how the Saudi's want to bankrupt the oil industry, but they just might be shooting themselves in the foot if
Iran/Iraq/Syria/Russia/Kazakhstan/Azerbaijan gang up together to bankrupt them in the long run by not cooperating to cut production in the long term. With no oil income, and an economy dependent on oil revenue they could go bust with in five years.

Now imagine Bahrain falls, and rubs shoulders with Iran, oil rich Eastern Saudi Arabia break away also?


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

noir-dresses said:


> It's funny how the Saudi's want to bankrupt the oil industry, but they just might be shooting themselves in the foot if
> Iran/Iraq/Syria/Russia/Kazakhstan/Azerbaijan gang up together to bankrupt them in the long run by not cooperating to cut production in the long term. With no oil income, and an economy dependent on oil revenue they could go bust with in five years.
> 
> Now imagine Bahrain falls, and rubs shoulders with Iran, oil rich Eastern Saudi Arabia break away also?


I agree. Iran would be very happy to start flooding the market with their oil if that means it would hurt Saudi, and Iraq, Syria and Russia are against the Saudis. 

As soon as the Saudi royal family will feel threatened, they'll pack up and leave with their billions. They could care less about Saudi people. 

Bahrain and Eastern Saudi would never fall. Saudi, UAE, Qatar, and Kuwait would never let that happen even if that means killing thousands of innocent people.


----------



## Green Hornet

In the future I imagine most cars will be electric and these oil producing countries will be screwed. Dubai at least is trying to obtain revenue through other means other than old.


----------



## Green Hornet

noir-dresses said:


> I just came back from Dubai, and tourists are not coming like before. It's just that Westerners are not coming, but Saudis as well.
> 
> Hotels have been saying numbers are dropping. There is not a taxi driver in town who says tourists are down big time.
> .


Dubai is still not family friendly enough I believe. Whilst a couple can have a nice time in Dubai with beaches,bars,shopping, there's not enough for kids and so Dubai isn't really yet a family destination. Once a few theme parks get completed the situation will hopefully improve however to get the big numbers through then alot more needs to get built.

Indoor developments are a must for summer months when things go quiet.

Expo will help but that's some way off.

If in 10 years a chunk of the proposed amazing developments are built then who wouldn't want to come to Dubai however we all know there's alot of talking by developers with no action.


----------



## luv2bebrown

noir-dresses said:


> It's funny how the Saudi's want to bankrupt the oil industry, but they just might be shooting themselves in the foot if
> Iran/Iraq/Syria/Russia/Kazakhstan/Azerbaijan gang up together to bankrupt them in the long run by not cooperating to cut production in the long term. With no oil income, and an economy dependent on oil revenue they could go bust with in five years.
> 
> Now imagine Bahrain falls, and rubs shoulders with Iran, oil rich Eastern Saudi Arabia break away also?


Saudis can only buy themselves time with their strategy, but they can not put shale producers out of business forever. The cost pressures will force shale producers to innovate. Sure, some will be bankrupted now, but when the oil price shoots up in the future, they will reenter the game with lower costs... and drive the price of oil down once again.

Saudi Arabia cannot win. OPEC is dead. Shale producers are not interested in joining the cartel. The game is over.


----------



## noir-dresses

Well the KSA considering doing an IPO of their oil industry is a sign of desperation.


----------



## UAE Investor

Damac villa,s akoya at 1.5 mil AED for modern 3 bed villa with pool

Versus groovy(not) DSC townhouses 2.9 AED

Any thoughts ?

Akoya is building a rain forest and is on the Tiger woods/trump golf course..

Damac are the developer?

Book me flight to look at options ...

Arabian Ranches 2 has villas for 1.5 also


:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

Oil is at 31.38 USD a barrel as of now, we are getting close to the twenty barrier. 

Money, funds, investors are leaving the UAE in large numbers now as we speak.

Everything just keeps getting more, and more volatile.


----------



## True Blue

noir-dresses said:


> Oil is at 31.38 USD a barrel as of now, we are getting close to the twenty barrier.
> 
> Money, funds, investors are leaving the UAE in large numbers now as we speak.
> 
> Everything just keeps getting more, and more volatile.


This is an investment thread. Professional investors see a crash as a massive opportunity to start spending, not a time to panic. Only the amateurs panic when prices drop. 

Smart investors are eyeing up mining stocks for that very reason.


----------



## speculator

noir-dresses said:


> Oil is at 31.38 USD a barrel as of now, we are getting close to the twenty barrier.
> 
> Money, funds, investors are leaving the UAE in large numbers now as we speak.
> 
> Everything just keeps getting more, and more volatile.


Buying opportunity for me. You are an amateur sorry to say.


----------



## speculator

Anyway my bet is oil will be heading straight up as soon as some missiles get shown of


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Non-oil sector accounts for 96 per cent of GDP as tourism, transport, trade, logistics, retail, and construction powering Dubai growth.

Dubai will continue to thrive as one of the world's most sought-after safe havens for high-net worth families and their investments on the back of its growing status as a world-leading financial services centre and tourism hot spot, according to latest forecasts and studies.

A report by Deloitte said as oil prices fall and neighbouring economies suffer, Dubai has made great strides in diversifying away from reliance on petrochemicals.

http://m.khaleejtimes.com/business/local/dubai-to-remain-safe-haven


----------



## noir-dresses

Oil is at 30.70 USD a barrel, and dropping. The reason I'm looking at oil is because I'm thinking once it hits 25 USD, and less that might be the rock bottom then the UAE, and KSA will step in around the end of 2016 to make it rise.

I honestly think once they think they have done enough damage, oil, and of course the property market with it will start to pick up. Once the up swing starts it could keep rising right up to the Expo.

I'm also very liquid looking for opportunity, but prices are still dropping for now.

There could be even more money to make in oil then property once it hits rock bottom because it's purposely manipulated, and it can't be this low forever.


----------



## noir-dresses

speculator said:


> Anyway my bet is oil will be heading straight up as soon as some missiles get shown of


If your referring to Iran, and the KSA making oil rise because of this then you can kiss your property value in Dubai good bye for a long time to come. If common sense prevails, and let's hope it does both countries will realize that they have to much to lose if head on confrontation ever occurs. This is exactly what you don't want to happen. I have very good experience of war, and what it brings, and how to invest during it, and after it.

Back to Dubai real estate. Fundamentally you need to know why the market is the way it is at this moment, and what exactly needs to happen to make it jump start again.

Try to step away from the Disneyland for adults of the biggest, highest, longest, and get back to the real world of you, and your investments being in a foreign country that's in the Middle East.

Some times it easier bringing your funds in, rolling the dice over, and over again with flipping/rentals, then getting the funds out. An exit strategy, and time frame are always important factors to investing.

There's a reason why the real estate market is so volatile at the moment.

Oil is only one factor. Oversupply, a slowing, and very volatile world economy all come to play as well. The high USD is not helping, plus some nationals who could of invested before can't now because their funds are frozen due to their home countries being under sanctions. The list goes on, and on.

The carrot to all of this is the Expo, but then all the government really needs to do is make the Expo site, that's all.


----------



## Pleth

Guys, did you notice there are more cars on the roads than ever?? 
Traffic jams in every direction, even now the roads are expanded. 
Longer queues at the petrol stations...

Dubai is not dependent on oil.
The reason why the property prices are falling is because of RERA's control.


----------



## Freestyler

> The reason why the property prices are falling is because of RERA's control.


Rera doesn't actually control the prices, but they do provide caps on rentals based on formula and they can increase or reduce the transaction fees for sales. That can affect demand. Other than that prices are not really controlled, prices follow market factors.

First, prices are not falling much, I'm trying to find bargains but there aren't much. Prices haven't changed much since 2015, and price fall is not like 2008-2009 market crash.

Price fall is due to tight liquidity, markets in general are facing liquidity tighting due to number of reason, it is not one. People look for simple explanations but market causes are usually complex and have many layers. One is local banks (esp Abu Dhabi banks) have reduced oil money cashflow deposits which will affect lending and interest rates + fed interest rates since UAE is pegged with US$. There are and will be layoffs in some industries related to oil which also slightly affects the property prices. And there are panic sellers, but not as much as 2008/2009 crash. There might be fire sales for those who can't afford to pay property installment or financing costs.

Lower oil prices doesn't really affect much Dubai, since it is only 5 to 7% of Dubai's GDP. Actually, it might lower Dubai's expenses and leave them more cash to build for 2020 expo.

As for property, lower prices are good for prudent investors (every market phase has buyers and sellers). Keyword here is *'prudent investors.'*


----------



## mackie1964

Pleth said:


> Guys, did you notice there are more cars on the roads than ever??
> Traffic jams in every direction, even now the roads are expanded.
> Longer queues at the petrol stations...
> 
> Dubai is not dependent on oil.
> The reason why the property prices are falling is because of RERA's control.


Half of the cars are from Oman, Kuwait and Saudi (mostly Saudi) from what I have seen this very week!!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

noir-dresses said:


> I'm also very liquid looking for opportunity, but prices are still dropping for now.


I had a hunch you were looking to buy into Dubai soon, would explain your recent many negative comments about Dubai trying to influence the market sentiment


----------



## mackie1964

Freestyler said:


> snip...
> 
> First, prices are not falling much, I'm trying to find bargains but there aren't much. Prices haven't changed much since 2015, and price fall is not like 2008-2009 market crash.
> 
> ........


I found quite a few bargains over the last couple of weeks in highly thought after building, not advertised well and yield of up to 11%. You just have to look hard:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai_Steve said:


> I had a hunch you were looking to buy into Dubai soon, would explain your recent many negative comments about Dubai trying to influence the market sentiment


Sitting this one out on the side lines this time. Cash can be moved at the click of a button, but you can't take real estate with you physically if shit hit's the fan. Honestly there would really have to be a sale of a life time for me to come back in, but hey what's to say it won't happen. I have excellent returns in Europe at the moment which is safe.

Oil is the key that I'm looking at, and I believe it's going to be the straw that breaks the camels back in the end. The KSA can't cut production because they will lose market share they worked so hard to get. On the other hand if they do cut production, and make oil rise the shale producers will come back on line immediately leaving the KSA to ask themselves why did we lose all that money? They are stuck between a rock, and a hard place burning billions of USD's.

Now you have Qatar, UAE, Bahrain going a long with this KSA plan, we also have Iran coming back on line as well, and will they co operate with the KSA/OPEC? 

I'll wait for the ringleader KSA to figure out the formula to success, when they do then that will be the green light I need to consider the place viable again. 

This is only an opinion, nothing more, nothing less. All the power in the world to today's investor's who have the stomach to ride this one out, Go for it!!!


----------



## Dubai_Steve

mackie1964 said:


> I found quite a few bargains over the last couple of weeks in highly thought after building, not advertised well and yield of up to 11%. You just have to look hard:cheers:


Are you not worried about what noir dresses has to say about oil prices?


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai_Steve said:


> Are you not worried about what noir dresses has to say about oil prices?


Nah. Market is maturing a little and Dubai will always be Dubai in its lovely corrupt ways :lol:

Time for Mini Skirts :lol:


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai Steve didn't someone not so long ago accuse you of working for Select???

As far fetched as that might sound what's to really say you don't??? Honestly l don't really know who you are, nor have l ever meet someone who can vouch for you.

Now if that were the case, I'm not saying it is, but if that really were the case wouldn't any thing you say have to sound positive? Infact you would actually be paid, or your income/profit would be based on you sounding optimistic at all times wouldn't it???

Even TB wasn't drinking your Select Cool Aid either, he was on to you like a hawk because the lies were so obvious.


----------



## mackie1964

Dubai Steve and MorrisMarina are true undercover Select loyal employees and their day job is just a cover :cheers:

Where is My Favoraites MorrisMarina, the spider "buy gold" man and High "I am always right" times anyway? :lol:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

noir-dresses said:


> Dubai Steve didn't someone not so long ago accuse you of working for Select???.


Yes there are some strange people on here that think everyone works for Select just because they defend investments they bought into. 

No I don't work for Select and have nothing to do with them. Please do not associate me with them. They are all a bunch of idiots. :bash:


----------



## Dubai_Steve

mackie1964 said:


> Dubai Steve and MorrisMarina are true undercover Select loyal employees and their day job is just a cover :cheers:
> 
> Where is My Favoraites MorrisMarina, the spider "buy gold" man and High "I am always right" times anyway? :lol:


High Times was always wrong in the end :lol:

MorrisMarina got accused of working for select quite a lot in the past also :lol: but I think he got the sack for smoking that huge spliff he posted a photo of on here.

Don't know why I hang around all these negative people on here. TrueBlue does my nut in! Just because he thinks I invented the term arse-end for the locale of his lovely pair of Jewels, when I didn't. It was that old Eastender's actor NazUk I think.


----------



## noir-dresses

I know your not part of Select Steve, no body would be that desperate.

Any way what's wrong with discussing the real life situation on the ground, and why should it be an enigma all the time when people hear what they don't like, nor what they can't deal with???

It even took Jerry a while to say "Show me the Money"!!!


----------



## speculator

*Not a bed of roses somewhere else*

The world economy is the largest risk and some countries I think will not fair so well. Massive debt bubble a suicide mission by the western economies. 
It's not so rosy across the pond either 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/house-prices/12087971/UK-house-price-crash-looms-as-global-asset-prices-unravel.html


----------



## beer51

More bad news, read all about it!

*Beware the great 2016 financial crisis, warns leading City pessimist *

Albert Edwards joins RBS in warning of a new crash, saying *oil price plunge* and *deflation* from emerging markets will overwhelm central banks, tip the markets and collapse the eurozone.

He was referring to the RBS advice, which warned that investors face a “cataclysmic year” where *stock markets* could fall by up to *20%* *and oil could slump to $16 a barrel.*

http://www.theguardian.com/business...at-2016-financial-crisis-warns-city-pessimist


----------



## FWIW

mackie1964 said:


> Dubai Steve and MorrisMarina are true undercover Select loyal employees and their day job is just a cover :cheers: Where is My Favoraites MorrisMarina, the spider "buy gold" man and High "I am always right" times anyway? :lol:


 The Spider-Man is always here; waiting, watching, ready to respond!

Buy more gold! Look at how cheap it is!! My god, the precious metal sales are on again! Of course buy some property first though - reminds me of 2008/2009!


----------



## noir-dresses

I read that one today to. Anyway go for it but more property in a mind screw.


----------



## noir-dresses

Saudi Debt Risk on Par With Junk-Rated Portugal as Oil Slides

Saudi Debt Risk on Par With Junk-Rated Portugal as Oil Slides

I posted the facts, now let the speculating begin


----------



## True Blue

^^Portugal is a good option for a retirement property. If you buy property and move there after reaching the age of retirement, you can take your personal pension income and Dubai rental income tax free for the first 10 years of residence.

Portugal and Cyprus have a double tax treaty with the UK which allows you to take your full amount of your personal pension 100% tax free instead of 25% tax free lump sum while resident in the UK. This has boosted the the demand for retirement villas in Portugal and the subsequent market price upshift.

I believe other countries are following similar routes to attract rich pensioners and their fat pension pots to boost their banks liquidity. Everywhere except Spain and UAE apparently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...m-Retire-in-Portugal-and-reduce-your-tax.html


----------



## AltinD

noir-dresses said:


> Dubai Steve didn't someone not so long ago accuse you of working for Select???
> 
> As far fetched as that might sound what's to really say you don't??? Honestly l don't really know who you are, nor have l ever meet someone who can vouch for you.
> 
> Now if that were the case, I'm not saying it is, but if that really were the case wouldn't any thing you say have to sound positive? Infact you would actually be paid, or your income/profit would be based on you sounding optimistic at all times wouldn't it???
> 
> Even TB wasn't drinking your Select Cool Aid either, he was on to you like a hawk because the lies were so obvious.


Recently I was accused of working for Select too :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## noir-dresses

AltinD said:


> Recently I was accused of working for Select too :lol::lol::lol:


I read that one to buddy, that was funny. How about .you Alton , have you finally decided to buy, and would you buy in these volatile times?


----------



## noir-dresses

beer51 said:


> More bad news, read all about it!
> 
> *Beware the great 2016 financial crisis, warns leading City pessimist *
> 
> Albert Edwards joins RBS in warning of a new crash, saying *oil price plunge* and *deflation* from emerging markets will overwhelm central banks, tip the markets and collapse the eurozone.
> 
> He was referring to the RBS advice, which warned that investors face a “cataclysmic year” where *stock markets* could fall by up to *20%* *and oil could slump to $16 a barrel.*
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/business...at-2016-financial-crisis-warns-city-pessimist


Here a video 

Middle East's Dangerous Mix of Oil and Politics

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-01-13/middle-east-s-dangerous-mix-of-oil-and-politics


----------



## AltinD

noir-dresses said:


> I read that one to buddy, that was funny. How about .you Alton , have you finally decided to buy, and would you buy in these volatile times?


Yes, I will buy ..... in Tirana, where I'll return very soon after a 17.5 years absence, 16 of which in Dubai.


----------



## noir-dresses

AltinD said:


> Yes, I will buy ..... in Tirana, where I'll return very soon after a 17.5 years absence, 16 of which in Dubai.


Home is the best brother, nothing beats the warmth of having your family, and close friends next to you where your from.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> ^^Portugal is a good option for a retirement property.


I bet you are looking forward to your retirement soon. I know I am.


----------



## noir-dresses

VAT to be introduced in UAE in 2018 @ 3-5%: Official

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emi...-uae-in-2018-3-5-official-2016-01-14-1.617264


----------



## speculator

noir-dresses said:


> Sitting this one out on the side lines this time. Cash can be moved at the click of a button, but you can't take real estate with you physically if shit hit's the fan.
> 
> This is only an opinion, nothing more, nothing less. All the power in the world to today's investor's who have the stomach to ride this one out, Go for it!!!



CASH ! Well you've got to have stomach to hold cash. Thats is the last thing in the world you should be holding. Its the greatest ponzy scheme waiting to collapse. Its extremely high risk : what will you do when the bank collapse happens. You can't move it then and you can't draw it out either. You need hard assets even if they may be volatile you at least have something tangible. Cash is high risk and the last place to be. The cash ponzy scheme is coming down. Why do you think the US are making trouble around the globe. Cash is going my friends and you will find the banks world wide one day will be CLOSED ! Im sorry but you have a naive view of the world.

Im not having a go at you honestly. Im just being straight and warning you. Buy something with your cash, hard assets, before its too late. Peace.


----------



## noir-dresses

speculator said:


> CASH ! Well you've got to have stomach to hold cash. Thats is the last thing in the world you should be holding. Its the greatest ponzy scheme waiting to collapse. Its extremely high risk : what will you do when the bank collapse happens. You can't move it then and you can't draw it out either. You need hard assets even if they may be volatile you at least have something tangible. Cash is high risk and the last place to be. The cash ponzy scheme is coming down. Why do you think the US are making trouble around the globe. Cash is going my friends and you will find the banks world wide one day will be CLOSED ! Im sorry but you have a naive view of the world.
> 
> Im not having a go at you honestly. Im just being straight and warning you. Buy something with your cash, hard assets, before its too late. Peace.


I know cash could be risky to, don't worry I own a lot of land in Europe. Some projects being built on parts of my land for rentals, and sale so I'm sitting pretty. My land isn't going anywhere. 

Coastal prices have hit the roof a long time ago, I'm even buying farm land now cause that's the sleeping tiger where I am. 

Did you notice what happened in Azerbaijan a few weeks ago with the huge devaluation of their local currency over night?


----------



## AltinD

I heard a rumor that a Dirham *devaluation* is being discussed by the cabinet :runaway:


----------



## speculator

noir-dresses said:


> I know cash could be risky to, don't worry I own a lot of land in Europe. Some projects being built on parts of my land for rentals, and sale so I'm sitting pretty. My land isn't going anywhere.
> 
> Coastal prices have hit the roof a long time ago, I'm even buying farm land now cause that's the sleeping tiger where I am.
> 
> Did you notice what happened in Azerbaijan a few weeks ago with the huge devaluation of their local currency over night?


I haven't been keeping an eye on Azerbaijan but to its going to get pretty bad especially when the world realises the dollar is the scam holding up the world economy. Glad your sitting pretty anyway.


----------



## speculator

AltinD said:


> I heard a rumor that a Dirham *devaluation* is being discussed by the cabinet :runaway:


Well again thats bad news for anyone holding cash. Hard assets will fair better after receiving the inflationary tide. Biggest danger is when the meltdown happens globally and it will be complete chaos.


----------



## Rider

Talking of devaluation I was considering converting some AED to GBP. Can anyone recommend the best way to transfer AED from a UAE bank account to a GBP bank account in the UK?
HIFX and Moneycorp don't seem that competitive and Transferwise don't do AED to GBP transfers. I called UAExchange but am going around in circles with them. 

Cheers


----------



## AltinD

^^ Can't you fix a preferential exchange rate with the bank and transfer directly from your account?


.... or are you afraid the taxmen will know where exactly your undeclared foreign bank account is?


----------



## Rider

AltinD said:


> ^^ Can't you fix a preferential exchange rate with the bank and transfer directly from your account?
> 
> 
> .... or are you afraid the taxmen will know where exactly your undeclared foreign bank account is?


In my experience banks don't do preferential rates. 

Nothing to hide. This is purely to get the best possible FX rate.


----------



## AltinD

^^ Yes they do. You have to contact the relationship manager and ask for it (based on a pre-fixed amount to be converted). He/she will give you the best they can do and if you agree with it they will fix it with the treasury and will give you a contract number which you have to list when you give the bank instructions for the transfer.

Now, does that come cheaper or more expensive than withdrawing cash from your account and convert it and transfer from an exchange house, I don't really know.


----------



## noir-dresses

Talking about buying foreign currency I could really get a lot of CAD these days in exchange to the AED/USD. I remember not so long they were at par.


----------



## True Blue

AltinD said:


> I heard a rumor that a Dirham *devaluation* is being discussed by the cabinet :runaway:


That would only help tourism but would hurt those working in Dubai. 

Why don't they just drop the 20% hotel tax and encourage lower priced food and beverage if they want to boost tourism. The current strong dollar is putting Dubai out of many people's reach. Especially those from Europe and Russia. 

Many people will already have noted some bar and restaurant prices coming down. Long may it continue. With the price of oil coming down to record lows, the last thing they need is tourism dwindling because exchange rates are so poor.


----------



## speculator

I hope I haven't started a bank run.


----------



## noir-dresses

speculator said:


> I hope I haven't started a bank run.


I doubt it, it's quite clear if your liquid funds are in the UAE just buy USD's since the Dirham is pegged to it any way, and your safe from devaluation.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

noir-dresses said:


> Talking about buying foreign currency I could really get a lot of CAD these days in exchange to the AED/USD. I remember not so long they were at par.


The CAD is so low these days. I still think it will fall a bit more but it should begin rising later this year.


----------



## speculator

noir-dresses said:


> I doubt it, it's quite clear if your liquid funds are in the UAE just buy USD's since the Dirham is pegged to it any way, and your safe from devaluation.


:nono: oh dear no no no. You still don't get it. Dollar is what you need to run from in fact all cash.


----------



## True Blue

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> The CAD is so low these days. I still think it will fall a bit more but it should begin rising later this year.


I remember the chat about how Canada avoided the world wide financial crisis, and then :lol:


----------



## luv2bebrown

Pleth said:


> Dubai is not dependent on oil.


new to Dubai?

Dubai is heavily dependent on oil. You have to look past the "Oil accounts for only x% of Dubai's GDP" statements.

Think bailout. Federal Budget. Energy subsidies. Oil revenue as a percent of government revenue (was close to 10% a couple of years ag).


----------



## luv2bebrown

True Blue said:


> That would only help tourism but would hurt those working in Dubai.
> 
> Why don't they just drop the 20% hotel tax and encourage lower priced food and beverage if they want to boost tourism.


DXB government is broke and concerned with government revenue, not the profitability of private enterprises.

They have debt obligations to European banks and cannot afford to cut taxes.


----------



## mackie1964

True Blue said:


> That would only help tourism but would hurt those working in Dubai.
> 
> Why don't they just drop the 20% hotel tax and encourage lower priced food and beverage if they want to boost tourism. The current strong dollar is putting Dubai out of many people's reach. Especially those from Europe and Russia.
> 
> *Many people will already have noted some bar and restaurant prices coming down. Long may it continue. With the price of oil coming down to record lows, the last thing they need is tourism dwindling because exchange rates are so poor*.


Good point but we could not understand the fact that food in the supermarket is nearly up by >10% (more than 15% for UK imported products) since our last visit and yet, Resturants remained (while very busy) level or reduced their prices as you state above.


----------



## noir-dresses

Pleth what's with your "hear say", I spoke directly to all the cabbies in Dubai myself which is called "first hand knowledge". Second I didn't say the hotels were empty, but they are getting less tourists. 

We are going in circles here, there seems to be no point.

Regarding the oil industry of course those employed in it have more disposable income then let's say a factory of minimally paid South Asian workers in the lumber/wood industry in Sharjah, or Ajman. I would give it a 100-1 ratio of disposable income power. 

Let's agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

From what I'm hearing then the real estate market is flourishing, the stock market is at record highs, tourists are coming in droves, and let's not worry about the geo political atmosphere. The high USD is great for business, the sinking Pound is great to. It's also great taxes are arriving. I guess we can also say the GDP will rise even though it has been down graded.


----------



## speculator

noir-dresses said:


> We know prices will keep going down, and why wouldn't I buy when they hit much lower levels?
> 
> I'm not making any thing up, I'm just posting the truth/fact of the what's really happening. I'm certainly not the one who's making rentals/real estate values drop, I'm certainly not the one making the whole region volatile because oil prices are dropping. I'm certainly not in charge of the Fed raising interest rates, and the strong USD, nor am I shaking the Chinese economy which in turn is riling the world's stock markets. I'm also not the one bringing in VAT, nor am I raising fee's everywhere.
> 
> This is a forum where we discuss things, is it not?
> 
> I'm sorry if I don't believe everything media outlets would say, or state, and I certainly don't believe what developers say either because they're paid to be optimistic.
> 
> Question why did dubizzle state what they stated, and why is really good to buy now, and not later? How is a investor really going to benefit from what dubizzle stated, and why?


Im sorry if you think im giving you a bashing. One of your earlier posts you describe yourself as a property tycoon sitting on lots of land in europe and various other property. In fact you describe yourself " sitting pretty " 

Your posts are not what a tycoon would be relating to and more akin to someone who is a first time buyer.

If you want negativity focus your attention to Europe and US and you will find plenty. I live in the UK and its the most miserable place in the world on its last legs slowly dying on a life support machine. If you want negativity its here.

Yes this is a thread for Dubai property but not for negative outpourings. ho:

As for me : im off to see the samaritans this afternoon.


----------



## UAE Investor

Still over half a million quid for a townhouse in the desert in a half way finished and stalling project is just mad!

rents crazy too ....

:cheers:


----------



## arfie

Just spoke to an Estate Agent in Dubai who called me encouraging me to sell my 2 bed apt in the Torch. She said market is very low and likely to go lower as a lot of uncertainty in the area she was telling me to sell my 2 bed and she could get me a buyer for 1.55 mil AED within the next fortnight as she has investors. I asked if the market is likely to go further down she said YES definitely. 

However the way she was encouraging me to sell I felt she must have some sort of buyers and the market can't be all that bad and agents helping their investors pick up some bargains by creating uncertainty amongst current owners.


----------



## Pleth

Noir-Dresses, I don't think you read my 2 posts... :nuts:


----------



## True Blue

arfie said:


> Just spoke to an Estate Agent in Dubai who called me encouraging me to sell my 2 bed apt in the Torch. She said market is very low and likely to go lower as a lot of uncertainty in the area she was telling me to sell my 2 bed and she could get me a buyer for 1.55 mil AED within the next fortnight as she has investors. I asked if the market is likely to go further down she said YES definitely.


Did you clarify if she was referring to the general market or The Torch Tower market?

1.55M is a good price as I saw a couple of 2 beds recorded on the Land register being sold for 1.0-1.2 million. May have been fire damaged units, there is no way of knowing. Rents are generally 20-25% below the market average now for Torch 2 beds, which aligns perfectly with your agent's valuation. I would be tempted to exit now if I owned there. Fire damage saga dragging on, possible cost implications of replacing the cladding, Marina Gate construction hemming the tower in and exchange rates moving in favour of sellers. Everything is pointing towards a time to exit. Sit on the money in GBP and wait for rates to swing back, market bottomed out and re enter the market in the Chic End 

Torch 1 beds don't seem to have been affected as severely as the 2 beds. Rental and sales values are only down 10% for one beds as opposed to 25% for 2 beds. Strange! Might be to do with the fact that it was almost entirely 2 beds that were damaged in the fire.


----------



## luv2bebrown

noir-dresses said:


> I'm more concerned because the biggest refinanced debt payments from the 2008/9 are due from now, and the next three years.
> 
> Let's hope they are all payed properly, and on time.
> 
> It's obvious they are trying to figure out ways to generate more income.


DXB gov has been successfully issuing debt in European bond markets. No transparency over where that capital goes, but I imagine it goes towards paying the real estate-related debt obligations to overseas banks.

So long as there is continued hype over Dubai's future, there will be investors -both institutional and retail - who will continue to invest in Dubai. But as soon as that hype evaporates, DXB will find it very difficult to issue new debt to cover existing debt obligations.

This article explains the growing challenges: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-awaits-gulf-exporters-stung-by-crude-s-slump

A second default is inevitable - Dubai will simply be unable to make its payments. The trouble is that if oil prices continue to stay low, by the time Dubai defaults, Abu Dhabi might not be in as a strong a financial position as it was in 2009-10 to come to Dubai's rescue again.


----------



## speculator

arfie said:


> Just spoke to an Estate Agent in Dubai who called me encouraging me to sell my 2 bed apt in the Torch. She said market is very low and likely to go lower as a lot of uncertainty in the area she was telling me to sell my 2 bed and she could get me a buyer for 1.55 mil AED within the next fortnight as she has investors. I asked if the market is likely to go further down she said YES definitely.
> 
> However the way she was encouraging me to sell I felt she must have some sort of buyers and the market can't be all that bad and agents helping their investors pick up some bargains by creating uncertainty amongst current owners.


Yes I've had similar experience. Last one was in December. Had a call about a villa I've got in AD and opened a dialogue with agent about a sale. She had an offer for me straightaway and kept telling me I'd be foolish not to sell giving me all the scare stories. Obviously these guys make money by selling property so they will always paint a picture for you and an opposite picture for the buyer. I decided in the end to remain foolish and not proceed with her offer. However everyone's situation is different and you have to make your own call on it in the end.


----------



## icemannapoli

"*HSBC* is to further raise its profile in the UAE with the construction of a US$250 million headquarters in Dubai’s Downtown area as it *prepares to move its Middle East business from the Channel Island of Jersey to the emirate later this year*.

The 20-storey building will be sited on Emaar Square, next to the headquarters of Standard Chartered."

I personally think that this is a great news for Dubai. A giant as HSBC (and its thousands analysts) should have good reasons and positive expectations regarding UAE economy in order to get such big decision.


----------



## Pleth

A lot of exciting, new things happening in Dubai
http://gulfnews.com/guides/life/community/16-new-attractions-on-cards-in-dubai-this-year-1.1654553


----------



## beer51

Guys

Off topic. How much does it cost to get a water heater fixed. Also any good maintenace company.

cheers


----------



## chefdude

beer51 said:


> Guys
> 
> Off topic. How much does it cost to get a water heater fixed. Also any good maintenace company.
> 
> cheers


Around 1,100 depends on the size of the tank required and the amount of work needed to access it.


----------



## beer51

Thanks chedude. I didn't realise it was that expensive. I was under the impression it was around 400-650 AED, obviously i am wrong and out of touch.


----------



## smussuw

^^ what do u mean by water heater fixed? Fixing it in ur washroom?


----------



## smussuw

As far the economy, I was talking to my colleague from Abu Dhabi about Dubai government doctors salaries being raised by 14% of their total salary. He was saying how Dubai could raise salaries while Abu Dhabi lowered some allowances from 10k to 8k and others from 8k to 6k.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

smussuw said:


> As far the economy, I was talking to my colleague from Abu Dhabi about Dubai government doctors salaries being raised by 14% of their total salary. He was saying how Dubai could raise salaries while Abu Dhabi lowered some allowances from 10k to 8k and others from 8k to 6k.


From what I know, AD government doctors make much more money than government doctors in Dubai.


----------



## AltinD

icemannapoli said:


> "*HSBC* is to further raise its profile in the UAE with the construction of a US$250 million headquarters in Dubai’s Downtown area as it *prepares to move its Middle East business from the Channel Island of Jersey to the emirate later this year*.
> 
> The 20-storey building will be sited on Emaar Square, next to the headquarters of Standard Chartered."
> 
> I personally think that this is a great news for Dubai. A giant as HSBC (and its thousands analysts) should have good reasons and positive expectations regarding UAE economy in order to get such big decision.


HSBC just laid off 500 staff in Dubai ..... and tens of thousands worldwide.


----------



## smussuw

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> From what I know, AD government doctors make much more money than government doctors in Dubai.


True, but the point is that Dubai raised salaries, while AD reduced them.


----------



## Varun124

beer51 said:


> Guys
> 
> Off topic. How much does it cost to get a water heater fixed. Also any good maintenace company.
> 
> cheers


I've gotten water heaters changed completely for about AED 650


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

Just had a 50 liter water heater replaced, parts and labor AED1300...


----------



## luv2bebrown

icemannapoli said:


> "*HSBC* is to further raise its profile in the UAE with the construction of a US$250 million headquarters in Dubai’s Downtown area as it *prepares to move its Middle East business from the Channel Island of Jersey to the emirate later this year*.
> 
> The 20-storey building will be sited on Emaar Square, next to the headquarters of Standard Chartered."
> 
> I personally think that this is a great news for Dubai. A giant as HSBC (and its thousands analysts) should have good reasons and positive expectations regarding UAE economy in order to get such big decision.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...deast-headquarters-near-world-s-tallest-tower

I just read the article.

This is simply consolidation of existing offices and the domiciling of Mideast ops in DIFC (presumably for tax benefits?)

The big news here is the shift toward corporations purpose building their own offices - like the Landmark Group HQ and Emirates Group HQ.


----------



## smussuw

I don't think it cost this much


----------



## Saint_

Yesterday's confirmation that UK interest rates aren't rising anytime soon has seen the GBP to AED rate drop to 5.2

Great time to convert your AED. Bad time to invest using GBP.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

The financial markets here are not doing that great. The lower oil price and slowdown in China have caused the DFM to hit a 28 month low.


----------



## luv2bebrown

^^Can expect US markets to also further decline as Gulf SWFs begin liquidating foreign assets.


----------



## ForgottenUsername

Dubai_Steve said:


> I had a hunch you were looking to buy into Dubai soon, would explain your recent many negative comments about Dubai trying to influence the market sentiment


One might think you always positive guys are paid shills.


----------



## ForgottenUsername

speculator said:


> CASH ! Well you've got to have stomach to hold cash. Thats is the last thing in the world you should be holding. Its the greatest ponzy scheme waiting to collapse. Its extremely high risk : what will you do when the bank collapse happens. You can't move it then and you can't draw it out either. You need hard assets even if they may be volatile you at least have something tangible. Cash is high risk and the last place to be. The cash ponzy scheme is coming down. Why do you think the US are making trouble around the globe. Cash is going my friends and you will find the banks world wide one day will be CLOSED ! Im sorry but you have a naive view of the world.
> 
> Im not having a go at you honestly. Im just being straight and warning you. Buy something with your cash, hard assets, before its too late. Peace.


Oh, you are one of those people. I see your type in the btc groups. Praying for
the fall of the dollar for years.


----------



## DUBAI10000

^^^^ I completely agree with TrueBlue, Dubai is not free form harm due to worlf recession and a worldwide lack of investments and cash-flow, however Dubai is going to take a much lower blow than the rest of the world and Dubai will also build back up much faster. To compared UAE to Saudi Arabia is insanity, the UAE is 100's of time more diversified which in the world of investments is obviously a good thing, Dubai won't take a major hit from the lowering oil prices, like Saudi Arabia is and Dubai's property market will always stay strong. Dubai needs to keep building and attracting more and more people for Dubai to succeed. My fear is that if construction suddenly stopped in Dubai within the next few years that 30 years from now Dubai will be somewhat outdated and it won't be as amazing and innovative as it is now comapred to the rest of the world.


----------



## ForgottenUsername

DUBAI10000 said:


> ^^^^ I completely agree with TrueBlue, Dubai is not free form harm due to worlf recession and a worldwide lack of investments and cash-flow, however Dubai is going to take a much lower blow than the rest of the world and Dubai will also build back up much faster. To compared UAE to Saudi Arabia is insanity, the UAE is 100's of time more diversified which in the world of investments is obviously a good thing, Dubai won't take a major hit from the lowering oil prices, like Saudi Arabia is and Dubai's property market will always stay strong. Dubai needs to keep building and attracting more and more people for Dubai to succeed. My fear is that if construction suddenly stopped in Dubai within the next few years that 30 years from now Dubai will be somewhat outdated and it won't be as amazing and innovative as it is now comapred to the rest of the world.


Economic diversity doesn't help when all your customers depend on oil to pay you.


----------



## True Blue

ForgottenUsername said:


> Economic diversity doesn't help when all your customers depend on oil to pay you.


None of my friends or tenants rely on oil to get paid. So I think you are overstating the importance of oil in the scheme of things.

Dubai makes more money from telecoms than it does from oil. Etisalat and Du were pioneers of one stop shop packages for TV, internet, telephone and mobile services on one account. This is now the way all providers have moved in the UK with BT having to pay £billions to EE to buy their mobile network so they can offer the full one stop package. BT never saw this coming and had previously sold its mobile division, O2, around 10 years ago to raise cash.

Dubai has also invested it's SWF in sensible assets like DP World, Emirates airlines and 2 massive airports, all of which generates considerable income. DXB is now the busiest airport in the world. Remarkable when you consider it's size 15 years ago. You would be a fool to overlook this achievement.


----------



## AltinD

Ignore the troll of a thousand nicknames!


----------



## Pleth

Agreed TB. And I am wondering who are making most money, Etisalat or Sheikh Zayed Road? LOL

Imagine how many cars are passing through the Salik every minute on the 12 lane road, plus there are 4 Salik gates.
Any guesses? Peak hours (and it seems to be peak hours 15 hours a day) I am guessing 50 per lane. That is app. 10.000 Dirhams a minute. Or 600.000 Dirhams per hour. Or 10 million Dirhams a day? 
:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## ForgottenUsername

Let see in six months eh? 

Does altin actually own property or does he just live to drive up there and wish?


----------



## UAE Investor

ForgottenUsername said:


> Let see in six months eh?
> 
> Does altin actually own property or does he just live to drive up there and wish?


He Rents,Not thats its any of your business!


----------



## speculator

I've got a better forum name for you : Notsocleverdipstick


----------



## beer51

Guys

Thanks for the feedback on the water heater.

*Further declines anticipated in Dubai home prices: report*

A majority of estate agents in new survey reckon the first quarter of 2016 could see another 5% dip

Dubai: Estate agents in Dubai seem to be in the grips of a bearish sentiment. A significant 46 per cent among their ranks feel that apartment values in Dubai could drop by up to 5 per cent in the first three months of the year, while another 5 per cent reckon the decline to be more than 5 per cent.

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...cipated-in-dubai-home-prices-report-1.1657472


----------



## True Blue

speculator said:


> I've got a better forum name for you : Notsoclever
> 
> LOL The dollars is doomed. GUARNTEED
> 
> The real positive risks are in the West. Simply they are finished. The shift is to the east.... Like it or not. . . :cheers:


USA has achieved its target of eliminating its dependence on OPEC oil. Due to efficiencies in fracking technology, USA now has a surplus of oil production. OPEC needs to find other customers and China is cutting back its requirements as it's economy is slowing faster than expected. 

The big risk for OPEC now is that demand has fallen away and a major new player (Iran) is looking for outlets for it's oil. Saudi doesn't want to cut production and make space for Iran. They also want to keep oil cheap to stop ISIS offloading their oil on the black market. They can afford to keep the price down, but not indefinitely. Every day the oil price is held down through creating oversupply, is another day when reserves are squandered. IMO, all the risk is with the Middle East countries that rely on oil as their main source of income. OPEC could end up breaking up soon as it becomes an "every man for himself" situation. 

Japan and China in recession, Oil price catastrophe for OPEC, the problems are bearing down on the Far East and Middle East as much, if not more than they are in Europe and USA.


----------



## True Blue

^^I should add that USA's new self sufficiency on oil and the problems of low oil prices to OPEC countries, create a strong US dollar. This strong dollar will put unbearable pressure on dollar currency pegs. We could see many more countries doing what China did and devaluing their currency to protect their economy. Euro zone is already devaluing by printing wads of QE.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

True Blue said:


> USA has achieved its target of eliminating its dependence on OPEC oil. Due to efficiencies in fracking technology, USA now has a surplus of oil production. OPEC needs to find other customers and China is cutting back its requirements as it's economy is slowing faster than expected.
> 
> The big risk for OPEC now is that demand has fallen away and a major new player (Iran) is looking for outlets for it's oil. Saudi doesn't want to cut production and make space for Iran.* They also want to keep oil cheap to stop ISIS offloading their oil on the black market.* They can afford to keep the price down, but not indefinitely. Every day the oil price is held down through creating oversupply, is another day when reserves are squandered. IMO, all the risk is with the Middle East countries that rely on oil as their main source of income. OPEC could end up breaking up soon as it becomes an "every man for himself" situation.
> 
> Japan and China in recession, Oil price catastrophe for OPEC, the problems are bearing down on the Far East and Middle East as much, if not more than they are in Europe and USA.


I highly doubt that's the reason they are doing it, after all, the Saudi's provided so much support for ISIS.


----------



## speculator

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> I highly doubt that's the reason they are doing it, after all, the Saudi's were the biggest funders of ISIS.


And will continue to be. Saudi are following instructions


----------



## True Blue

If you don't serve your tenant 90 days notice of an increase then your increased rent can be rejected, even if it is within the limits of the rent calculator.

People need to wise up to the rules if they want to be responsible landlords. You're giving us good guys a bad name. :bash:


----------



## Green Hornet

I issued the tenant with a 12 months sales notice last year as I do every year.He has had notice of a 5% rent increase as allowed by Rera.I wrote to my property management company and told them to ask the tenant to make a sensible offer on the rent as it's way below what is being advertised.I've said that at the current rent it's more beneficial for me to take advantage of the exchange rate from dirhams to sterling,sell up,and invest back in the UK.I know he won't make an offer so I will put the unit up for sale and call his bluff.I don't want to sell.If he doesn't make an offer I will say he can stay in 6 weeks which will be 6 weeks before the end of the contract.Or at least that's the plan.If before I do that he signs for a unit elsewhere then I won't be able to rent mine for 2 years.However as any new unit he will be renting will probably cost him more than where he is now he would be better off either calling my bluff or making me an offer.I'm sure the end result will be that he stays and for only the 5% increase but it's worth a try I guess or maybe I'm playing with fire.It really ****s me off these people can stay in these units year after year at a greatly reduced rate because the assholes at Rera want to protect their undeserving asses.


----------



## FWIW

Green Hornet said:


> I issued the tenant with a 12 months sales notice last year as I do every year.He has had notice of a 5% rent increase as allowed by Rera.I wrote to my property management company and told them to ask the tenant to make a sensible offer on the rent as it's way below what is being advertised.I've said that at the current rent it's more beneficial for me to take advantage of the exchange rate from dirhams to sterling,sell up,and invest back in the UK.I know he won't make an offer so I will put the unit up for sale and call his bluff.I don't want to sell.If he doesn't make an offer I will say he can stay in 6 weeks which will be 6 weeks before the end of the contract.Or at least that's the plan.If before I do that he signs for a unit elsewhere then I won't be able to rent mine for 2 years.However as any new unit he will be renting will probably cost him more than where he is now he would be better off either calling my bluff or making me an offer.I'm sure the end result will be that he stays and for only the 5% increase but it's worth a try I guess or maybe I'm playing with fire.It really ****s me off these people can stay in these units year after year at a greatly reduced rate because the assholes at Rera want to protect their undeserving asses.


 Is this a joke post? I find it highly offensive. RERA exist because unfortunately people like you exist . Please sell up and invest in the UK. You will not be missed. You give every other responsible landlord a bad name.


----------



## PalmBreeze

Oh is the mask slipping off, showing the truth of this long scam?


----------



## UAE Investor

Green Hornet said:


> I issued the tenant with a 12 months sales notice last year as I do every year.He has had notice of a 5% rent increase as allowed by Rera.I wrote to my property management company and told them to ask the tenant to make a sensible offer on the rent as it's way below what is being advertised.I've said that at the current rent it's more beneficial for me to take advantage of the exchange rate from dirhams to sterling,sell up,and invest back in the UK.I know he won't make an offer so I will put the unit up for sale and call his bluff.I don't want to sell.If he doesn't make an offer I will say he can stay in 6 weeks which will be 6 weeks before the end of the contract.Or at least that's the plan.If before I do that he signs for a unit elsewhere then I won't be able to rent mine for 2 years.However as any new unit he will be renting will probably cost him more than where he is now he would be better off either calling my bluff or making me an offer.I'm sure the end result will be that he stays and for only the 5% increase but it's worth a try I guess or maybe I'm playing with fire.It really ****s me off these people can stay in these units year after year at a greatly reduced rate because the assholes at Rera want to protect their undeserving asses.


i think this is cunning ....in the end its just business .....tenants frighten me,heard so many bad stories ....leaving the taps on for a week ( short term rental),happen to a friend of mine in the us.

Some very dodgy tenants out there ....landlords beware!


:cheers:


----------



## AltinD

PalmBreeze said:


> Oh is the mask slipping off, showing the truth of this long scam?


Frak Off


----------



## Green Hornet

FWIW said:


> Is this a joke post? I find it highly offensive. RERA exist because unfortunately people like you exist . Please sell up and invest in the UK. You will not be missed. You give every other responsible landlord a bad name.


Are you winding me up ?! So it's ok for the asshole of a tenant to screw me down on rent when rents hit the floor a few years ago.It was ok for him to mess me around and leave it till late to renew his contract but when I want to look after myself like every tenant wants to look after themselves then it's not ok? Landlords are the ones who always get the bad press but tenants are the lowlifes in my book.As for you, you are obviously a tenant.


----------



## Green Hornet

UAE Investor said:


> i think this is cunning ....in the end its just business .....tenants frighten me,heard so many bad stories ....leaving the taps on for a week ( short term rental),happen to a friend of mine in the us.
> 
> Some very dodgy tenants out there ....landlords beware!
> 
> 
> :cheers:



Exactly it's business.It's legal and it's business .They look after themselves and landlords do the same.However tenants also have the jerks at Rera looking after them by way of the ridiculous rent cap.


----------



## PalmBreeze

AltinD said:


> Frak Off


Nervous? You nervous.

What route will you take to Europe?


----------



## AltinD

^^ The usual ... same one I've been taking for the last 16 - 17 years? :dunno:


----------



## speculator

FWIW said:


> Is this a joke post? I find it highly offensive. RERA exist because unfortunately people like you exist . Please sell up and invest in the UK. You will not be missed. You give every other responsible landlord a bad name.


:applause::applause::applause:


----------



## Saint_

FWIW said:


> Is this a joke post? I find it highly offensive. RERA exist because unfortunately people like you exist . Please sell up and invest in the UK. You will not be missed. You give every other responsible landlord a bad name.


Not sure where you get the highly offensive part from. It's pretty clear that this person's hand is being forced because of the lack of protection and fairness offered to landlords by the current rules. RERA are a joke and this is where the source of the problem lies.


----------



## noir-dresses

The Oil Industry Got Together and Agreed Things May Never Get Better

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...gether-and-agreed-things-may-never-get-better


----------



## KuatDY

Ouch eh?


----------



## noir-dresses

Global shocks and the UAE credit cycle

http://khaleejtimes.com/business/economy/global-shocks-and-the-uae-credit-cycle


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

The most fire-retardant wall panels are still not being used on buildings across the country, despite a spate of facade blazes.

Three of the world’s top alu*min*ium composite panel makers have confirmed that demand for their highest-rated panels is almost non-existent across the region.

And an updated building code introduced in Dubai in 2012 aimed at halting the use of flammable aluminium composite panels is still not being fully implemented because of the high cost of some system tests.

One major manufacturer said it has supplied just one project with non-combustible panels in five years.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/...d-for-uae-towers-despite-spate-of-blazes#full

" Still not being implemented " line, kind of like the Home Ownership Association Law or Strata Law of 2006, detecting a trend here me thinks ; )


----------



## UAE Investor

Be in Dubai for ten days starting Wednesday

Be pleased to meet up with any ssc members,please pm me!

:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

How does Arabtec have a loss of Dh2.3 billion for the year 2015 if they are working on most of the big projects? The only thing that comes to mind is they are not being paid for the work they are doing, it doesn't make sense.


----------



## luv2bebrown

^^The news coverage seems to support that.

Also, they may have expanded their operations commensurate with new projects, but when those projects fell through, they are still left with costs. I'm talking about these kinds of bull**** projects: http://www.thenational.ae/business/...inue-with-cairo-over-40bn-residential-project


----------



## UAE Investor

they started the football stadium at DSC ...but they pulled the plug as dsc ran out of money!


----------



## skdubai

^^ drive a tesla and your opinion will change real quick. Convinced me that electric cars are ready for prime time. 

Newhoo... way off topic.


----------



## Freestyler

Electric cars are the real deal now. But doom gloom posts about UAE economy are far-fetched. Oil prices seems to have stabilized, and imo, in 1.5 years they will be around $50 which is need even for electric cars and other green energy industry to sustain their production. Cheaper oil means normal gas cars become cheaper to drive and crash in oil prices is also hurting EV industry.

Solar energy is becoming cheap and competitive, and gulf has plenty of sun. It could become next oil for the GCC. But right now solar needs oil prices to be above $50 too, but in next 10 years solar might compete with at production costs around $25 for oil.


----------



## aloyarc

That's your opinion.


----------



## luv2bebrown

AltinD said:


> ^^ Electric cars are over-hyped ..... but Elon has always been good at that


thought your issue was not the car itself, but that grid capacity is too low for everyone to be able to get electric cars and charge them at home.


----------



## AltinD

^^ All of those, and many other things .... that make EV overhyped.


----------



## AltinD

skdubai said:


> ^^ drive a tesla and your opinion will change real quick. Convinced me that electric cars are ready for prime time.


Buy a Tesla for the REAL cost of manufacturing and marketing it and then we talk. There's a reason a comparable un-heavily-subsidized vehicle from legacy automakers costs a lot more.


----------



## aloyarc

Point out some of these competitor vehicles. 

Also, define unsubsidized. All in the US at least get the same tax credits on purchase.
Or do you mean the government loans giving to tesla, which they paid back early?


----------



## Freestyler

You can read it from Tesla's CEO himself: http://fortune.com/2016/01/25/elon-musk-oil-prices-electric-cars/


----------



## AltinD

aloyarc said:


> Point out some of these competitor vehicles.
> 
> Also, define unsubsidized. All in the US at least get the same tax credits on purchase.
> Or do you mean the government loans giving to tesla, which they paid back early?


Or the (Tesla's) non existing profit due to under-cost selling :tongue3:



.... whatever anyone says, electric cars are not ready for prime time YET for a big number of reasons.


EDIT:There aren't that many competing models from legacy automakers cause it did not make much economic sense for them to transform the prototype and concept cars into production vehicles.


----------



## aloyarc

Tesla is dumping all profits back into further development. Gain some knowledge.


----------



## Freestyler

Tesla have not made any profit yet, but it is well funded company.


----------



## dave83

What's the best place and type of property to buy for 900,000-1 million AED.

And is now the right time to buy. Rental returns and minimal voids are of prime concern.


----------



## agod

dave83 said:


> What's the best place and type of property to buy for 900,000-1 million AED.
> 
> And is now the right time to buy. Rental returns and minimal voids are of prime concern.


I will pm. you


----------



## walker501

PM me as well, please


----------



## True Blue

True Blue said:


> This is an investment thread. Professional investors see a crash as a massive opportunity to start spending, not a time to panic. Only the amateurs panic when prices drop.
> 
> *Smart investors are eyeing up mining stocks for that very reason*.


^^Posted on 11th January 2016

Glencore price 73p then and £1.60 now. 120% increase in less than 2 months.

Did anyone follow my lead?


----------



## UAE Investor

True Blue said:


> ^^Posted on 11th January 2016
> 
> Glencore price 73p then and £1.60 now. 120% increase in less than 2 months.
> 
> Did anyone follow my lead?




Mining company!


----------



## Freestyler

True Blue said:


> ^^Posted on 11th January 2016
> 
> Glencore price 73p then and £1.60 now. 120% increase in less than 2 months.
> 
> Did anyone follow my lead?


It is more like 2 weeks price increase, short seller got caught on the wrong side of the market momentum that was the main reason price rose up so fast. I mentioned earlier, oil prices have seemed to stabilized, and it was cheap buy whoever was buying when the price was going down.

Seems like there are potential short sellers here in property market too, if short selling was possible they would probably be in same situation as short sellers of Glencore. :lol:


----------



## noir-dresses

I've been keeping track of the oil market as well, and I'm not convinced we've seen the bottom yet. All we have for now is discussions of an oil out put freeze of maximum out put which means there will be no end to the glut problem. Until we have all parties agreeing to an oil out put cut in production the problem will not be solved.

The price of oil for now is based on speculation on hope of an agreement happening, but once reality kicks in a cut is not happening the market will react.

BTW good call Scott. Oil stocks are crazy as well, the short, and long spikes are unbelievable.


----------



## True Blue

Mining stocks crashed due to China consumption levels falling drastically causing panic in the markets. However, there are a few sectors which will be buoyed by the low oil prices and mining is one of them. The cost of production will drop drastically as fuel costs are as low as 25% of a year ago.

My point being at the time, if property price drops in Dubai are driven by a little panic setting in, then you can benefit from it if you know the reasons behind the panic are groundless.


----------



## noir-dresses

I was in Dubai last week for about a week, and to the naked eye things seemed normal as usual. Sorry I didn't call you for a drink, but we were really busy.

Basically the streets were full of cars, the airports were busy, etc, etc. What I realized talking to people was it really came down to who your talking to I guess. Some people would say everything seems the same, some people say all is good, and some not so good. I guess it all matters in the end what sector your in, and who you talk to. 

The city is so diverse that life keeps carrying on. All in all my gut feeling told me things are not as bad as 2009, but yes it's a bit slower than usual. 

Let's see what the future brings.


----------



## Josau

Now one thing is for certain: people are being laid off, some expats have to leave the country, but to what extent and will it come to the 2009 situation? One of my tenants was laid off, but found a new job within a few weeks. So who knows. On the ground people here are calling it a recession.


----------



## noir-dresses

Until oil prices reach 80 USD a barrel things won't get better.


----------



## avion1

*Dubai Properties prices are going down*

Dubai Properties prices are going down, there are hardly any buyers in the market. Hyped Dubai market and inflated prices but no buyers.


----------



## UAE Investor

avion1 said:


> Dubai Properties prices are going down, there are hardly any buyers in the market. Hyped Dubai market and inflated prices but no buyers.


Not real buyers, but no doubt some potential landlords keeping the dream alive?

:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

luv2bebrown said:


> Total tourist numbers are up, but you have to look at yield.
> 
> 5% growth YOY is pretty low for Dubai. Supply is outpacing demand - what is that doing to hotel yields? Is it sustainable? Will Dubai be as attractive to investors as it was when it had higher paced growth?
> 
> Also, Saudi dep crown prince Mohammed Bin Salman has been talking up austerity a lot in the past couple of days. That might very well one day translate to a drop in the extravagant Saudi tourist spending that Dubai depends on.


I think a lot of those tourist numbers are passengers leaving DXB airport while on a longer layover. All they need to do is go through immigration, and do some sight seeing. This is why I think the hotel numbers are dropping as well because they are not really staying in Dubai very long.

Just 2015 had around 5 million pax passing through DXB than 2014, now if only ten percent of those pax are going through immigration that would add 500,000 additional tourists to the statistics.


----------



## HPDubai

Tourist need reasons to come to Dubai same as investors need reasons to invest. I am seriously worried about Dubai's competitiveness. Small example: I bought 60 vitamin B pills in Boots London: GBP 2.99. Same pills here (also in BOOTS) 65 AED. What is wrong ? VAT or income tax yes/no is an irrelevant discussion with these kind of margins.


----------



## noir-dresses

Lo and behold the regions power house oil minister who held his position for twenty years has just got fired in the KSA.


----------



## m-man

noir-dresses said:


> Lo and behold the regions power house oil minister who held his position for twenty years has just got fired in the KSA.



He wasn't fired. .


----------



## noir-dresses

m-man said:


> He wasn't fired. .


OK I'll reword it to that the KSA head of oil is gone now in the countries economic reshuffle.

Also gone is the head of the central bank.


----------



## m-man

noir-dresses said:


> OK I'll reword it to that the KSA head of oil is gone now in the countries economic reshuffle.
> 
> Also gone is the head of the central bank.


I would worry if you didn't grasp the diffrence between the words. 😅


----------



## noir-dresses

m-man said:


> I would worry if you didn't grasp the diffrence between the words. 😅


Basically the way I see it is we're living in a global slowdown where there's no real demand for anything. 

It's tough everywhere, and oil producing countries are feeling they're share of the slowdown.


----------



## Freestyler

Al-Naimi was near his retirement.

Al-Falih is former chairman of Aramco, he is very sharp guy.


----------



## Pleth

HPDubai said:


> Tourist need reasons to come to Dubai same as investors need reasons to invest. I am seriously worried about Dubai's competitiveness. Small example: I bought 60 vitamin B pills in Boots London: GBP 2.99. Same pills here (also in BOOTS) 65 AED. What is wrong ? VAT or income tax yes/no is an irrelevant discussion with these kind of margins.


I worry as well.
UK has 20% VAT, Dubai has 5% tax on the cost price only. So why the big difference? I think the shop rent is higher in Dubai but then again the sales staff's salaries are a lot lower.


----------



## m-man

HPDubai said:


> Tourist need reasons to come to Dubai same as investors need reasons to invest. I am seriously worried about Dubai's competitiveness. Small example: I bought 60 vitamin B pills in Boots London: GBP 2.99. Same pills here (also in BOOTS) 65 AED. What is wrong ? VAT or income tax yes/no is an irrelevant discussion with these kind of margins.



For some reason multivitamins are so overpriced here. 


I face the same problem with vitamins. I buy a 60 tablet variety here for AED 156. While the same costs AED 50 in the USA. It doesn't make any sense. Probably allowing supermarkets to sell multivitamins will ease the prices, given that in pharmacies they are sold over the counter without any advise anyways, so why give them the monopoly.


----------



## luv2bebrown

Pleth said:


> I worry as well.
> UK has 20% VAT, Dubai has 5% tax on the cost price only. So why the big difference? I think the shop rent is higher in Dubai but then again the sales staff's salaries are a lot lower.


In the last twenty odd years, Dubai's lure for investors and businessmen has been that they could charge first world prices while paying third world salaries. 

Also, the city's sick obsession with "prestige" and "status" has led to this ridiculous dynamic that the more expensive something is, and the more exclusive, the better. People are willing to pay ridiculous prices for ridiculous sh*t. Businesses have been thriving off the spread between prices and wages.

The city has relied mostly on exploitation rather than innovation to survive. But with low oil prices, this dynamic will have to change. The big spenders will soon be out of big spending money as government spending dries up, and the middle class will be stretched to their breaking point. 

The Dubai government just announced fees for a number of yet-to-be-specified police services. It continues to tack on these ad-hoc taxes while not doing anything to promote a cultural shift away from the rampant greed and status-obsessed thinking that is poisoning the city. Everything is about maximum immediate profit. It's like tearing down a rainforest for timber, or overfishing.

Completely irresponsible and short-sighted governance IMO. But of course there's no democracy and there's nobody in government to represent me or anyone I know so here I am in an online forum.


----------



## noir-dresses

"If they sell the golden goose, how do they fund anything? It's insane. Saudi is mortgaging away its future to buy time," said Schreiber.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/09/investing/betting-against-saudi-arabia-cheap-oil/index.html

Even Market Place Middle East says the oil minister was fired.


----------



## noir-dresses

The problem is oil just can't get a footing. Look at today's results, it's falling like crazy. I think we will see 30 USD a barrel very soon, if not this week. In the end an oil glut is an oil glut, nothing more, and nothing less.

This in the end will keep chipping away at UAE real estate prices, and rents. I'm sure there are real estate agents making money while taking advantage of sellers, and buyers with the fear factor on one side, and future potential on the other.


----------



## Freestyler

Everything is falling today, markets maybe reacting to Trump's comments about defaulting on US National Debt.


----------



## Josau

noir-dresses said:


> I think a lot of those tourist numbers are passengers leaving DXB airport while on a longer layover. All they need to do is go through immigration, and do some sight seeing. This is why I think the hotel numbers are dropping as well because they are not really staying in Dubai very long.
> 
> Just 2015 had around 5 million pax passing through DXB than 2014, now if only ten percent of those pax are going through immigration that would add 500,000 additional tourists to the statistics.


I got into DXB (btw concourse D for the first time and not impressed, but that is off topic) and I was surprised how many people arrived. The immigration section was crowded to the limit. Also walking along the beach (JBR) today I couldn't believe the amount of tourists there, especially considering the fact, that they are vacationing on a construction site. So there are lots of tourists, even now and this is a off season period. I guess Dubai and the UAE are profiting from their safe heaven status and tourist who'd normally go to Tunisia, Turkey, Egypt etc. come here.


----------



## noir-dresses

Terminal one immigration was always crowded because foreign airlines use it, and the pax have arrived at there final destination. Little to no pax connect to another flight from concourse D.

Many pax have connecting flights from concourse A, B, and C because those are the facilities Emirates Airline use.

Regarding Marina it should be packed with tourists at the moment because it's still high season. In a another month the weather will start getting really hot.

DXB 's numbers are always rising so naturally tourist numbers should rise. Let's see how hotel occupancy numbers, and yields do.


----------



## Josau

I called it "off season" because there are no school holidays right now. 
I am aware how hot it will be in a short while plus Ramadan is around the corner. It will be interesting. Abu Dhabi is struggling more, great deals there right now, discounts on everything.


----------



## UAE Investor

Real estate man gets shot in the marina 

how many murders is that now in the marina?

http://www.emirates247.com/news/businessman-shot-dead-in-his-car-2016-05-11-1.629762


----------



## noir-dresses

Josau said:


> I called it "off season" because there are no school holidays right now.
> I am aware how hot it will be in a short while plus Ramadan is around the corner. It will be interesting. Abu Dhabi is struggling more, great deals there right now, discounts on everything.


I would consider anywhere from mid September to mid June to be tourist season. While Christmas/New Year, and Easter to be high season.

Also don't get fooled by Ramadan in summer because Eid is high season for the local, and surrounding counties. Dubai is like their Las Vegas to celebration get away to eat, and drink after a long period of fasting. When I mention drink I refer to non alcoholic drink naturally.


----------



## luv2bebrown

UAE Investor said:


> Real estate man gets shot in the marina
> 
> how many murders is that now in the marina?
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/businessman-shot-dead-in-his-car-2016-05-11-1.629762


Why wasn't it reported last week? Seems it was only reported by accident while reporter was covering the FNC.


----------



## Pleth

UAE Investor said:


> Real estate man gets shot in the marina
> 
> how many murders is that now in the marina?


3? Over 10 years 
The capital city of Copenhagen has in average 50 murders per year. Even the population is only 600.000.

So calm down.:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

Some positive news oil has recovered all it's loses from a few days ago, and rising due to new data of Indian, and Chinese demand.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Pleth said:


> 3? Over 10 years
> The capital city of Copenhagen has in average 50 murders per year. Even the population is only 600.000.
> 
> So calm down.:cheers:


There is a lot of crime in this country that goes unreported...


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

luv2bebrown said:


> Total tourist numbers are up, but you have to look at yield.
> 
> 5% growth YOY is pretty low for Dubai. Supply is outpacing demand - what is that doing to hotel yields? Is it sustainable? Will Dubai be as attractive to investors as it was when it had higher paced growth?
> 
> Also, Saudi dep crown prince Mohammed Bin Salman has been talking up austerity a lot in the past couple of days. That might very well one day translate to a drop in the extravagant Saudi tourist spending that Dubai depends on.


That is true. There is definitely an oversupply of hotel rooms, but surprisingly, hotel rates (at least at the top hotels) is still high and I've noticed they are even higher than last year. 



noir-dresses said:


> I think a lot of those tourist numbers are passengers leaving DXB airport while on a longer layover. All they need to do is go through immigration, and do some sight seeing. This is why I think the hotel numbers are dropping as well because they are not really staying in Dubai very long.
> 
> Just 2015 had around 5 million pax passing through DXB than 2014, now if only ten percent of those pax are going through immigration that would add 500,000 additional tourists to the statistics.


Yes, that is probably a big factor. I was in Terminal 3 the other day, and there were so many passengers walking out of the terminal with hardly any luggage, so I'm guessing they were only in Dubai for less than a day. But EK have really improved the connection times for most flights in the past few years, so its more rare to have passengers with long layovers now.


----------



## Pleth

Now I think the subject "Bureaucracy in Europe" may be a bit off topic. 
But the Brexit movie is out and I can highly recommend it. http://www.brexitthemovie.com/

Maybe it would be a great lesson of what *NOT* to do in United Arab Emirates. 
:hmm:


----------



## speculator

Pleth said:


> 3? Over 10 years
> The capital city of Copenhagen has in average 50 murders per year. Even the population is only 600.000.
> 
> So calm down.:cheers:


Well London is better and easily beats your city. 113 murderers last year to September. :cheers:


----------



## speculator

Thanks for the movie recommendation. Will save me a few quid was going to watch something on Apple tv this evening.


----------



## Pleth

speculator said:


> Thanks for the movie recommendation. Will save me a few quid was going to watch something on Apple tv this evening.


I love the movie. Much better than I expected. And typical British, they throw a bit of humour in it as well. 
Might just watch it agaiin.


----------



## Pleth

speculator said:


> Well London is better and easily beats your city. 113 murderers last year to September. :cheers:


But how many millions live in London? :lol:


----------



## luv2bebrown

ADNOC to cut 5k jobs.
http://www.reuters.com/article/emirates-oil-idUSL5N18C0DD


----------



## noir-dresses

The problem with the price of oil today is that it won't bring the amount of bankruptcies in North America the KSA was hoping for. End the end the price will stagnate, or even drop again.


----------



## noir-dresses

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...y-oil-market-s-flip-to-deficit-on-supply-cuts

This is good news. Maybe not enough to turn things around, but it's a step in the right direction.


----------



## speculator

Pleth said:


> But how many millions live in London? :lol:


Oh damn I was hoping London could be better at something. You spoilt it with your statistics.


----------



## UAE Investor

soory wrong post!


----------



## chefdude

Pleth said:


> Now I think the subject "Bureaucracy in Europe" may be a bit off topic.
> But the Brexit movie is out and I can highly recommend it. http://www.brexitthemovie.com/
> 
> Maybe it would be a great lesson of what *NOT* to do in United Arab Emirates.
> :hmm:


Thanks for the link Pleth

I have registered to vote and will be putting my X against the option to get the F*** out of the EU


----------



## noir-dresses

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-17/abu-dhabi-seen-pressing-brakes-too-hard-as-growth-set-to-slump

Abu Dhabi seen pressing brakes too hard as growth set to slump.


----------



## noir-dresses

Things seem to be stabilizing as of now even though there is still a lot of uncertainty in the air. 

The Middle East markets dropped a bit yesterday since they were closed on Friday which is normal. Looks stable for now.

Oil seems stable for now at 47/48 USD a barrel.

I don't think we will see the drastic drops in the worlds stock markets like we saw on Friday.

Currencies seem to of stabilized for now, the only panic going on is in Japan with a stronger Yen.

As of now things are gradually adjusting until Article 50 is signed.

I think the UK needs clarity who will be the next leader.


----------



## noir-dresses

GBP-USD 1.32


----------



## noir-dresses

GBP-USD already breaking in and out of the 1.31 barrier
Euro Stock Markets taking a beating, Dow Future already @ -180
Oil dropping
German 10 year bond treasury @ -0.1

So much money potential on shorting


----------



## Green Hornet

A real dilemma for UK residents with property in Dubai.Sell and take advantage of the exchange rate or keep.


----------



## noir-dresses

Green Hornet said:


> A real dilemma for UK residents with property in Dubai.Sell and take advantage of the exchange rate or keep.


Great Pound exchange rate that just might get better by the day, plus the UK real estate market should go down so it's a win win.


----------



## Rider

Green Hornet said:


> A real dilemma for UK residents with property in Dubai.Sell and take advantage of the exchange rate or keep.


The pool of potential buyers must be pretty low at the moment. Would be surprised if there are that many sales going through


----------



## CrystalPhoenix

If all the uk people want to sell, you have a housing crash.


----------



## Freestyler

Pleth said:


> Why don't you make a chart from the last 4 months?
> Drama Queen :lol:


Here is chart for whole year: https://snag.gy/mhqWL1.jpg

Related to discussion earlier, 'John Oliver - Brexit Aftermath': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzY5mB1lCc0


----------



## samcapri

My take on the impact of Brexit on Dubai property market is we will see a number of distress deals from British to sell their property in dubai to gain much GBP. Taking in account that GBP exchange rate to AED continue to fall. 

I might be wrong , who agree / disagree to this statement


----------



## arfie

samcapri said:


> My take on the impact of Brexit on Dubai property market is we will see a number of distress deals from British to sell their property in dubai to gain much GBP. Taking in account that GBP exchange rate to AED continue to fall.
> 
> I might be wrong , who agree / disagree to this statement


Why would British owners want to sell their properties ? Ideally they should keep their investments and earn good rental income and the current exchange rate should be beneficial to them.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Yes, I don't expect British owners to be selling their properties, especially because the GBP is expected to fall even more to 1GPB = $1.2.


----------



## Pleth

noir-dresses said:


> Pleth here is what Tim said in Dublin earlier this month
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/03/reut...orried-about-brexit-impact-on-eu-economy.html
> 
> Remember Europe is EK's largest market accounting for well over 30 percent, the Middle East only accounts for around 5-6 percent of their total market share.
> 
> Why are you so focused on emission tax at the moment, like I said that's not important right now. Selling seats is what's important especially premium seats, not to mention the possibility of making new air treaty agreements.
> 
> If revenue drops it wont be because of emission tax's, but because of the lack of seat sales due to a drop in currency value, and shrinking disposable income due to a unstable EU, and UK economy.
> 
> Please say you understand the fundamentals now so we don't keep going in circles.


Hey Noir Dress, I am barely using this tax as an example. If one country rules out all the EU taxes forced upon it, it may actually benefit from it.
Airline passengers are always looking for cheaper deals.
Here is another tax that was forced by the EU on UK http://qz.com/642811/the-eu-will-finally-allow-member-states-to-scrap-their-tampon-tax/

When we first entered the EU it was meant to be a trade deal. Without democracy it turned into a union where everything is decided from Brussels.


----------



## noir-dresses

Pleth said:


> Hey Noir Dress, I am barely using this tax as an example. If one country rules out all the EU taxes forced upon it, it may actually benefit from it.
> Airline passengers are always looking for cheaper deals.
> Here is another tax that was forced by the EU on UK http://qz.com/642811/the-eu-will-finally-allow-member-states-to-scrap-their-tampon-tax/
> 
> When we first entered the EU it was meant to be a trade deal. Without democracy it turned into a union where everything is decided from Brussels.


Pleth the EU emision tax is just an add on expense just like a fuel surcharge, or baggage fee in some cases which is just calculated into the airfare.

I'm not even going to get into how tampons are taxed because I find that very silly, and off topic. We're talking about the airline industry which is a whole different can of worms with cut throat margins.

As you can see it's very volatile in Europe right now due to the the Brexit vote with markets dropping like crazy, and the GBP, and Euro losing it's value. 

It's going to continue being volatile until we get some clarity month's from now who will be the UK's next leader, and most important of all will they sign Article 50, and start the process of leading the UK out of the EU.

You never know maybe there won't be an exit, but negotiation after negotiation until the UK get a better deal. The problem is no body knows what will happen, and markets don't like uncertainty, but then that's the way democracy works. In the end even if the UK decide to leave everything will fall in place, and life will move on with markets adjusting. 

Back to Emirates Airline like Tim Clark said he is concerned ticket sales will drop because of the economic implications due to this process. One thing is for sure it's a lot more expensive for UK, and EU citizens to buy airline tickets when your local currency drops very aggressively compared to the USD.

If the UK do sign Article 50 there will a lot of new air treaty agreements to be renegotiated between the EU, and UK.

Emirates Airline is in the business of selling seats on their air frames, and flying pax from point A to point B while trying to make a profit doing just that. Now if the load factors on those flights start dropping so does revenue, and profit. 

Emirates Airline have a huge fleet with well over 250 wide bodies with at least another 50 A380's, and 77W's entering the fleet in the next two years. The last thing Tim wants are economic uncertainty's that will make his job harder selling seats, especially in his biggest cash cow market which is the EU. 

Selling cheap seats, and filling an aircraft is easy, the trick is to sell as many seats as possible on your aircraft at a profit which Emirates have been doing all this time. It could be detrimental to the business strategy if load factors only drop by five percent.

Emirates Airline is a big contributor to the Dubai economy employing thousands of people, and bringing millions of people to Dubai to spend money in other sectors of the economy. 

Let's see what happens, Tim said they already have a contingency plan in case of a Brexit vote.


----------



## Richard Head

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> Yes, I don't expect British owners to be selling their properties, especially because the GBP is expected to fall even more to 1GPB = $1.2.


What's your source for this?


----------



## noir-dresses

Well well well it look's like things are back to normal today. Except for lower currency exchanges, everything else seems to be in the green again.

I think the media, and markets sensationalized the hysteria a bit. The ingenuity of man will always find a way to carry on.

If we Europeans have figured out how to split an atom, we will definately figure out how to split a future trade agreement.:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

Richard Head said:


> What's your source for this?


I heard them speculating about that on Bloomberg yesterday, and Friday. Some speculated over the next three months up to the signing of Article 50 the GBP-USD could be as low as 1.1


----------



## Rider

noir-dresses said:


> Well well well it look's like things are back to normal today. Except for lower currency exchanges, everything else seems to be in the green again.
> 
> I think the media, and markets sensationalized the hysteria a bit. The ingenuity of man will always find a way to carry on.
> 
> If we Europeans have figured out how to split an atom, we will definately figure out how to split a future trade agreement.:cheers:


I think there's a bit more turbulence to come, especially when article 50 is finally triggered. Still too much uncertainty about what the exit deal will look like and also the political instability in Westminister. Many think the new PM will be under pressure to call a General Election in order to secure a mandate after the stick Gordon Brown took.


----------



## CrystalPhoenix

noir-dresses said:


> Well well well it look's like things are back to normal today. Except for lower currency exchanges, everything else seems to be in the green again.
> 
> I think the media, and markets sensationalized the hysteria a bit. The ingenuity of man will always find a way to carry on.
> 
> If we Europeans have figured out how to split an atom, we will definately figure out how to split a future trade agreement.:cheers:


Dont worry, some british poli will make some stupid statement or claim to keep things frothy.


----------



## noir-dresses

Today could just be a dead cat bounce.


----------



## True Blue

Tourist rates are now so bad that a pint of beer in Dubai is officially £10. Who is going to want to come and pay those silly prices?

Big problem for the world is the strong dollar and it is bringing back the old question of whether the UAE should depeg or just drop their prices. (especially for beer) :lol:


----------



## arfie

True Blue said:


> Tourist rates are now so bad that a pint of beer in Dubai is officially £10. Who is going to want to come and pay those silly prices?
> 
> Big problem for the world is the strong dollar and it is bringing back the old question of whether the UAE should depeg or just drop their prices. (especially for beer) :lol:


Simple solution is not to drink 😊


----------



## UAE Investor

arfie said:


> Simple solution is not to drink 😊


HOW?

:cheers:


----------



## Freestyler

lol this guy insulted everyone in European parliament, and he is supposed to make exit deal with them https://www.facebook.com/theguardian/videos/10154296251371323/ 

To quote: "It appears the United States and Great Britain are in competition to see who can mess up the most. GB is in the lead, but America has a Trump card."


----------



## Dubai_Steve

True Blue said:


> Big problem for the world is the strong dollar and it is bringing back the old question of whether the UAE should depeg or just drop their prices. (especially for beer) :lol:


IS will cause Trump to be president soon which will cause the dollar to drop to the floor. Fear of IS slipping in via syrian refugees was the main cause for BREXIT. Meanwhile the Middle East are eyeing up property investment deals in London after Ramadan with the currently low pound.


----------



## dubayyy

Currency Transfer

Can anyone please recommend a trusted currency dealer to transfer AED to sterling. 

Thanks.


----------



## icemannapoli

dubayyy said:


> Currency Transfer
> 
> Can anyone please recommend a trusted currency dealer to transfer AED to sterling.
> 
> Thanks.


I personally use MoneyCorp


----------



## CrystalPhoenix

Dubai_Steve said:


> IS will cause Trump to be president soon which will cause the dollar to drop to the floor. Fear of IS slipping in via syrian refugees was the main cause for BREXIT. Meanwhile the Middle East are eyeing up property investment deals in London after Ramadan with the currently low pound.


Your grasp of us politics is...weak. 
Your grasp of uk politics is...weak.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

^^ If IS did not exist, then Britain would never have voted to leave. Simple as. 

The 52% vote to leave was mainly because of lack of border controls and the fear and dislike of extremist Muslims taking over the country. Nothing to do with economics. 

Trump will be president because the US general public are also afraid of jihadists.


----------



## Gabriel900

Brexit won't go through ... I read a very interesting article about the matter written by a political analyst. They will find a way to revoke it.

As for Trump, he has a chance of winning especially with Hillary getting bombarded daily with scandals. (Although CNN and ABC are trying to cover them scandals are finding their way to the public), her only asset now is that she's a woman :lol:

Anyways whatever happened it is not the end of the world as many are painting it will be.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Overseas property buyers are snapping up London property after the shock decision for the UK

Estate agents in the UK have been swamped with calls from Chinese, Middle Eastern, Italian and Spanish buyers looking for a bargain after the pound tumbled to more than 30-year lows, making the exchange rate very favourable for foreign buyers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...me-eu-referendum-housing-market-a7108026.html


----------



## CrystalPhoenix

Gabriel900 said:


> Brexit won't go through ... I read a very interesting article about the matter written by a political analyst. They will find a way to revoke it.
> 
> As for Trump, he has a chance of winning especially with Hillary getting bombarded daily with scandals. (Although CNN and ABC are trying to cover them scandals are finding their way to the public), her only asset now is that she's a woman :lol:
> 
> Anyways whatever happened it is not the end of the world as many are painting it will be.


You need to take your conspiracy theory bs and shove it.


----------



## Gabriel900

^^ thank you for your graceful response .. I never met someone who respected others different opinions like you do.


----------



## noir-dresses

What Brexit chaos, looks like things are getting back to normal. Tomorrow we continue watching the Euro 2016 quarterfinals, and enjoy life.


----------



## Freestyler

Dubai_Steve said:


> ^^ If IS did not exist, then Britain would never have voted to leave. Simple as.


Not really. One of the main reason is immigration but it is free flow of immigrants from Eastern Europe under EU laws. Related article for more information http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/did-britain-really-vote-brexit-to-cut-immigration/


----------



## Gabriel900

noir-dresses said:


> What Brexit chaos, looks like things are getting back to normal. Tomorrow we continue watching the Euro 2016 quarterfinals, and enjoy life.


It was a mass hysteria fueled by media which led for some to draw apocalyptic future for Europe and the world.

and Dubai_Steve is right, the issue is aggravated by the war in the middle east which was one of the major causes of the supposed BREXIT, anyways ISIS reached already the peak of their dominance in Syria and Iraq and now they are getting weaker and they are losing grounds and battles against all who is fighting them. This will lead to individual terrorists fleeing towards Lebanon, Jordan, SA, Turkey and Europe so expect more individual terrorist attacks around the globe in the coming months which is a sign of the end for these retards; it is a sign they are taking their last breath before they die without coming back.

Concerning refugees in Europe I believe we will see a mass exodus towards their homeland once the region is stable enough.

All these events I believe won't have any major effect on Dubai's real estate market this year or the next one.


----------



## luv2bebrown

Gabriel900 said:


> Brexit won't go through ... I read a very interesting article about the matter written by a political analyst. They will find a way to revoke it.


I also believe this to be the likely case.

But the reality is it will create a terrible amount of internal civil discord. I can't even imagine how upset leave voters will be.


----------



## luv2bebrown

noir-dresses said:


> What Brexit chaos, looks like things are getting back to normal. Tomorrow we continue watching the Euro 2016 quarterfinals, and enjoy life.


For now. Last week's hysteria was just temporary fear.

We will see a couple of years from now what happens depending on the exit terms. If no free trade agreements and if other EU countries opt to leave, certainly the UK economy will feel some pain.


----------



## True Blue

luv2bebrown said:


> For now. Last week's hysteria was just temporary fear.
> 
> We will see a couple of years from now what happens depending on the exit terms. If no free trade agreements and if other EU countries opt to leave, certainly the UK economy will feel some pain.


There is no such thing as a free trade agreement in EU. UK paid a fixed fee of £350m per week and received some of that back in grants which are distributed throughout the EU. We won't now receive those grants nor will we have to pay the membership fee. Instead we will pay taxes and levies based on our trade. Less trade means less levy and more trade means more. I think that's is a better arrangement. At the end of the day the net result will probably be the same but with our sovereignty intact.

The £350 million surplus that Boris touted was pie in the sky, and we are all realising that now. NHS will still benefit as they are now under no obligation to treat anyone who has mysteriously arrived in the country with a serious condition. As cruel as it may sound, this is what was widely happening. Would you want to check into a hospital in Greece or one in UK if you were diagnosed with a serious condition? The NHS can now operate it's budgets knowing that population growth will not be the unknown factor going forward.


----------



## noir-dresses

In reality what has changed for now? Things are all the same until Article 50 is activated. 

Even then life moves on.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

noir-dresses said:


> In reality what has changed for now? Things are all the same until Article 50 is activated.
> 
> Even then life moves on.


Nothing will change now, but if Article 50 is actually invoked, that's when the uncertainty will begin. From that point on, the UK will probably go into rescission, but until then, it's business as usual. 

I also don't think the UK will actually leave the EU. Parliament or Scotland could veto it, or the next Prime minister could even just ignore it.


----------



## AndyH

luv2bebrown said:


> I also believe this to be the likely case.
> 
> But the reality is it will create a terrible amount of internal civil discord. I can't even imagine how upset leave voters will be.


Half of them probably regret their vote already, did you see Richard Branson (pro-leave before the vote) talking about his companies valuation being reduced by 30% in a few days.. and he is now pro-remain 8 days later


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Dubai_Steve said:


> Overseas property buyers are snapping up London property after the shock decision for the UK
> 
> Estate agents in the UK have been swamped with calls from Chinese, Middle Eastern, Italian and Spanish buyers looking for a bargain after the pound tumbled to more than 30-year lows, making the exchange rate very favourable for foreign buyers.
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...me-eu-referendum-housing-market-a7108026.html


This may be true but with so much uncertainty of the future, thousands of British home buyers will probably hold off buying anything for now. And I don't think foreign home buyers will be able to make up for the slump in demand.


----------



## Saint_

AndyH said:


> Half of them probably regret their vote already, did you see Richard Branson (pro-leave before the vote) talking about his companies valuation being reduced by 30% in a few days.. and he is now pro-remain 8 days later


This is what happens when Joe Public are asked to make one of the biggest decisions in a generation based on lies and scare mongering. Cameron only agreed to hold a referendum to appease the right wing toffs and it has backfired spectacularly. It's arguably one of the biggest political train wrecks in decades. 

As far as immigration goes, I'm afraid that horse has already bolted. The UK Government opened the floodgates to new EU member states in 2004 when they could have gone for a phased approach like Germany. I will be amazed if people who have already settled in the UK will be forced to pack their bags and leave. Likewise for Brits already living in the EU.

The UK has gotten off lightly in terms of taking in Syrian refugees and bailing out the southern European countries. The UK isn't even in Schengen, didn't adopt the Euro and yet the public were conned into thinking they had a rotten deal. They might save on the EU membership fee but it'll be peanuts compared with the long term cost of multinationals and banks relocating their HQs from a soon to be non-EU country. Not to mention all the noise coming from N Ireland and Scotland. 

I would not be surprised if they come up with some political workaround. A snap general election is one option where one party could get a mandate from the public to hold a second referendum or re-negotiate terms with the EU. This could in theory override last week's result. Assuming the right party with the right leader wins of course.


----------



## arfie

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> This may be true but with so much uncertainty of the future, thousands of British home buyers will probably hold off buying anything for now. And I don't think foreign home buyers will be able to make up for the slump in demand.


Thousands may hold off from buying but the smart investors will be buying in the coming months. Property prices wont drop dramatically this is all media talk!


----------



## noir-dresses

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> This may be true but with so much uncertainty of the future, thousands of British home buyers will probably hold off buying anything for now. And I don't think foreign home buyers will be able to make up for the slump in demand.


Some banks are already starting to suspend London property loans because of the uncertainty. If a recession really kicks in the property bubble there could burst.


----------



## True Blue

Brexit crisis! What crisis?

*British Stocks Rally to Highest Level Since August on BOE Bets*
_
The FTSE 100 Index jumped 2.3 percent on Thursday, reversing an earlier drop of as much as 0.8 percent, after BOE Governor Carney said in his second televised address since the country voted to leave the European Union that the central bank won’t hesitate to act to safeguard the economy and the resilience of the financial system. That took the gauge’s three-day surge to 8.7 percent. A total of 80 of its companies climbed, even as Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc and Lloyds Banking Group Plc fell more than 2.6 percent._

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ecline-after-biggest-two-day-surge-since-2011

Essentially, the artificially weak pound is drawing massive foreign investment in UK shares. Must be really galling for Merkel and Juncker to read these headlines.


----------



## Pleth

So much scare mongering here. 
Have a look at Norway and Switzerland, are they doing so bad?


----------



## noir-dresses

The GBP seems to of drooped again due to the expectation of a future rate cut in the UK. I can see a manufacturing boom in the UK once they leave the EU.

The weak GBP should see the UK get a lot of FDI.

Even if the value of the real estate market in the UK drops this could be a very good sign for the market in general with locals deciding to buy due to lower prices, and lower interest rates.

You might even see UK nationals selling their assets abroad, and buying in the UK.


----------



## True Blue

^^The lack of bureaucracy in the UK will make it a hive of industry and investment. You have to remember that most of it's population and politicians have no idea what it's like to function outside of the overbearing EU. That is why it was so easy to scare everyone. The only thing that frightens anyone is a fear of the unknown, and Brexit was a massive unknown which is slowly unravelling to be more of a positive than a negative.

FTSE still soaring higher than anything seen in the last 12 months. Massive amounts of cash flowing into the UK with the cheap currency making investments cheap. Upsides for foreign investments not just on the capital gains but in the fact that the currency will also recover at some point, giving them an extra boost on returns. Win win! 

Hard to believe when you consider the Government has lost it's PM and now facing election of a fresh leader. That alone would normally send the FTSE 10 percentage points South.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

noir-dresses said:


> Some banks are already starting to suspend London property loans because of the uncertainty. If a recession really kicks in the property bubble there could burst.


It's also worrying that many companies will move their HQ to other countries. Wouldn't that lower the tax revenue the government receives from corporate taxes?


----------



## arfie

If someone was looking for a cheap investment ( up to 550-600k) which area would they consider buying in ? 

Aim is to buy something not too expensive and bring good rental yields.


----------



## montranieri

*investement in building near bluewater island duba marina*

Hi all,

I am considering another investment in the Marina and in particular on the end of the Marina near blue waters island. for example building like KG tower or Dorrabay or Jewels. I am looking at some sea view or bluewater island view on high floor and between 2000 and 3000 sqfts flats with minimum 3 beds plus maid.
I notice prices went down to between 900 and 1300 AED per sqft.
Do you think they will dive further ?
Also are you aware on when they will start to laounch the residential apartments on bluewaters island and do you predict this developement will help the prices of the buildings nearby in the Marina or depress them further ?

Thanks!!!


----------



## noir-dresses

At the moment it's slow in Dubai with Ramadan, and the summer heat. As of 2014 real estate prices, and rents have been dropping, and they will continue dropping because there will be a huge over supply in units for a long time to come. 

Usually after summer things pick up in Dubai, but come this September-October you even have the Brexit Article 50 issue that can send things into a tail spin in a millisecond.


----------



## noir-dresses

The GBP-USD is trading at 1.29 as of now.


----------



## Dubai_Steve

Will be even lower soon when UK interest rates are cut to 0%


----------



## Gabriel900

An interesting read
*
Dubai 200% affordable: Emaar markets property to Europeans post-Brexit*

http://www.emirates247.com/property...-to-europeans-post-brexit-2016-07-06-1.634970


----------



## True Blue

Dubai_Steve said:


> Will be even lower soon when UK interest rates are cut to 0%


I'm having serious doubts about Mark Carney now. He kept saying he would raise interest rates as soon as unemployment fell below 7%. Unemployment has been below 7% for a number of years now, in fact unemployment is as close to the bottom that you can get because there is a core of people who are just unemployable, people with violent tendencies, drug and alcohol dependent and just bone idle people happy to chose a life on benefits. Despite this Carney didn't raise interest rates.

Now at a time when the pound is at a 30 year low, he's talking of reducing interest rates. Reducing interest rates and printing money are the things that devalue your currency. Where is this man going? What is his reasoning behind his strategy? Why is he even entertaining the discussion that the economy is in jeopardy following the brexit vote, when in effect nothing has changed and won't until Article 50 is invoked. GB is still trading in the single market today.

I think he is covering his own arse after coming out and making scaremongering statements during the referendum. Something he should not have been allowed to comment on.


----------



## True Blue

Gabriel900 said:


> An interesting read
> *
> Dubai 200% affordable: Emaar markets property to Europeans post-Brexit*
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/property...-to-europeans-post-brexit-2016-07-06-1.634970


Terrible marketing! Buy from us as it's cheaper than your property market. :nuts:

2,400AED/ft2 is just ridiculous for Downtown. Most people who have spent a few years in Downtown get bored with it and move to the marina, where average prices are nearer 1,800AED/ft2


----------



## Saint_

True Blue said:


> I'm having serious doubts about Mark Carney now. He kept saying he would raise interest rates as soon as unemployment fell below 7%. Unemployment has been below 7% for a number of years now, in fact unemployment is as close to the bottom that you can get because there is a core of people who are just unemployable, people with violent tendencies, drug and alcohol dependent and just bone idle people happy to chose a life on benefits. Despite this Carney didn't raise interest rates.
> 
> Now at a time when the pound is at a 30 year low, he's talking of reducing interest rates. Reducing interest rates and printing money are the things that devalue your currency. Where is this man going? What is his reasoning behind his strategy? Why is he even entertaining the discussion that the economy is in jeopardy following the brexit vote, when in effect nothing has changed and won't until Article 50 is invoked. GB is still trading in the single market today.
> 
> I think he is covering his own arse after coming out and making scaremongering statements during the referendum. Something he should not have been allowed to comment on.


Just the sort of nonsensical commentary I would expect from a deluded nationalist in denial about the consequences of Brexit. I think you should go back to your role as the self-appointed Head of Marketing for the arse end :lol:

Carney would have been slated had he went into hiding and said nothing. He decided to hold off raising interest rates because the pound was already pretty strong against the other main currencies (primarily due to the Eurozone crisis which is outwith the BoE's control) and it would have strengthened even more making the UK unattractive to foreign investment. 

He has been given a hospital pass by the Leave campaign and is being forced to reduce interest rates further to weaken the pound and make the UK more attractive to foreign investors. Osborne is doing the same by suggesting corporation tax will reduce to 15% which might help, to some extent, offset the UK's soon to be non-EU status. We are in a holding pattern until article 50 is triggered but there is still pressure from the markets for action to be taken and statements to be made in the meantime. The whole thing is a mess and everyone, apart from deluded Brexit supporters, knows it.


----------



## noir-dresses

Brexit Britain: Pound drops to $1.28

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=133921649


----------



## Slimbo

If you want people to come and live in all of these hundreds of buildings that have been proposed, they can only come if they have a job.

That means, there needs to be a high rate of new businesses opening/expanding in Dubai.

To achieve that, you really need to remove all of the red tape nonsense (it can take months to get all the "necessary approvals and permits" in place added to multiple trips to several government offices to have notarised and attested copies of everything imaginable stamped, and half the time you're turned away because "system is down"), the sponsor system, relax the bankruptcy laws, etc, etc.

When we opened an office in Abu Dhabi, it took us 6 months from the beginning of the process to having the trade license in our hands, and that was just having a small office with 3 employees. Dubai, the UAE and the Middle East in general is not an easy place to do business.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

There may not be that many people that would want to retire in the UAE, but I'm sure it would still be an attractive option for many old people in India/Pakistan. They would still be very close to their families back home, but they can enjoy a much better life somewhere else.


----------



## Pleth

I know a lot of people in their mid fifties * living here *who would like to stay in Dubai and retire (they are from Europe and New Zealand). 
Spain is more boring and also COLD during the winter.
But these people are getting nervous that they will get kicked out when they turn 60 - 62 and retire.

This could benefit the economy in Dubai. Make it simple and easy to get a retirement visa, as long as they get their own health insurance. 
Why make complicated when you can make it easy?


----------



## Pleth

Slimbo said:


> If you want people to come and live in all of these hundreds of buildings that have been proposed, they can only come if they have a job.
> 
> That means, there needs to be a high rate of new businesses opening/expanding in Dubai.
> 
> To achieve that, you really need to remove all of the red tape nonsense (it can take months to get all the "necessary approvals and permits" in place added to multiple trips to several government offices to have notarised and attested copies of everything imaginable stamped, and half the time you're turned away because "system is down"), the sponsor system, relax the bankruptcy laws, etc, etc.
> 
> When we opened an office in Abu Dhabi, it took us 6 months from the beginning of the process to having the trade license in our hands, and that was just having a small office with 3 employees. Dubai, the UAE and the Middle East in general is not an easy place to do business.


Have you tried closing it down again then :nuts::nuts: That took my friend one and a half year :lol:


----------



## noir-dresses

Emaar Malls records 17% growth in net profit

http://www.emirates247.com/business...s-17-growth-in-net-profit-2016-07-27-1.637036

One would read this article, and think wow retail is doing great. It actually just shows higher profit for the stakeholders of Emaar because they raised the rental/lease rate a few months ago. 

I would like to see real time data on how the retailers themselves are actually doing. As we know retail is down, plus there rents/expenses have risen.


----------



## noir-dresses

For those who are interested Max Keiser had a good episode regarding energy transition.

https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/353499--episode-max-keiser-946/

Also WTI is on the verge of 40 USD a barrel, and Brent is around 42 USD a barrel. 

https://www.dailyfx.com/crude-oil


----------



## noir-dresses

Any upturn in oil prices to set off UAE project boom

http://gulfnews.com/business/economy/any-upturn-in-oil-prices-to-set-off-uae-project-boom-1.1870755

But risks will hover in the immediate environment. “The main risk associated with the forecast is a failure of the projected oil price increases to materialise,” Meed says. “This will intensify the challenges facing the government of the federation and individual emirates, but the UAE has the resources to deal with the financing requirements the low price scenario presents.

The report cites the main issue as “the impact low oil prices and reduced government income” on the economies of the five other emirates and Dubai, the most heavily leveraged of the seven, and in the projects environment.


----------



## noir-dresses

Morgan Stanley Warns Currency Traders Worst to Come for Dollar

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rns-currency-traders-worst-to-come-for-dollar

The dollar is set to fall 5 percent in the next few months, the Federal Reserve isn’t raising interest rates anytime soon and U.S. economic data is only going to get worse.

That’s what Morgan Stanley chief global currency strategist Hans Redeker told clients in a note published Thursday, citing in-house indicators showing U.S. domestic demand is set to fade in the coming months.


----------



## noir-dresses

There you go people the million dollar question everybody is asking themselves regarding real estate prices, and rentals that are tied to oil revenue.

If a barrel of oil manages some way to rise back up to 50 USD, and stay there consistently things look bright. Once it can find equilibrium between 55/65 USD things should really start picking up so that's the indicator to watch.

On Friday oil managed not to drop below 40 USD which is good news, but we need to keep an eye out next week because some are speculating if it drops to 38 USD a barrel it could stay there, or even drop some more. Traders are realizing the oil glut is not going away. As the article mentions Dubai is heavily leveraged, and really needs the price of oil to rise. Even cheap money borrowing overdose to build build build has to be paid back sooner, or later. Only the interest is low, the principle is always the same.

We really need the world economies to pick up so the glut can finally go away, but that will be hard because when ever oil rises the Americans turn on the taps immediately. 

I also posted an article regarding the potential of the USD value dropping because the American economy might be slowing down which would be good for Dubai. 

Let's see what happens.


----------



## Gabriel900

^^ I really enjoy reading your posts noir dresses. Very informative thank you


----------



## Sanctumre

noir-dresses said:


> I also posted an article regarding the potential of the USD value dropping because the American economy might be slowing down which would be good for Dubai.
> 
> Let's see what happens.


Interesting view point and quite logical. will like to read more of your points in future.


----------



## noir-dresses

TheUnfetteredMan said:


> How does that work when many ME countries need near 100 to cover their budgets?


Not every GCC country needs 100 USD a barrel to break even. Break even for Kuwait is 49 USD, Qatar is 56 USD, Iran is 72 USD, UAE is 73 USD, Iraq is 81 USD, KSA is 106 USD, and Bahrain is 107 USD as of the end of 2015 beginning 2016. Every country has a different budget.

Until then to now some countries have readjusted their budgets, cut spending, cut benefits, added/increased fees, introduced taxes, or put austerity measures into place to try and cut deficits. As long as oil prices are low they will all be burning through financial reserves, and assets, plus be issuing bonds to get the needed cash flow. The pain won't go away until oil rises, or they manage to diversify their economies so not to be reliant on oil.

The positive side is they all have high reserves, the negative side is they can't do it forever obviously. 

For example the KSA burned through more than 100 billion USD in 2015 of reserves, Qatar burned through 12-15 billion USD of their reserves. The UAE had a fiscal deficit of around 13/14 percent of GDP in 2015. Good news is the UAE will have in place a break even point of 60 USD a barrel of oil which is getting better, but we still need the price to go up.

Any way in a few more hours the markets will open in Asia, and we will see which way oil futures will go.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

noir-dresses said:


> I also posted an article regarding the potential of the USD value dropping because the American economy might be slowing down *which would be good for Dubai. *
> 
> Let's see what happens.


Is it though? In the short run it might be, but in the long run, the US economy slowing down, along with the slowdown in China, and no growth in Europe and Japan, hurts the overall world economy. And we all know what happened to Dubai the last time the world economy had a crisis... Only this time, I'm not so sure AD will be able to afford to bailout Dubai...

We always talk about Dubai over here, but everyone forgets that AD is doing even worse. Sure they have hundreds of billions in assets, but their economy is mostly reliant on oil. Plus they are fighting an expensive war that is going nowhere. AD is much more important to the UAE than Dubai.


----------



## noir-dresses

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> Is it though? In the short run it might be, but in the long run, the US economy slowing down, along with the slowdown in China, and no growth in Europe and Japan, hurts the overall world economy. And we all know what happened to Dubai the last time the world economy had a crisis... Only this time, I'm not so sure AD will be able to afford to bailout Dubai...
> 
> We always talk about Dubai over here, but everyone forgets that AD is doing even worse. Sure they have hundreds of billions in assets, but their economy is mostly reliant on oil. Plus they are fighting an expensive war that is going nowhere. AD is much more important to the UAE than Dubai.


Very true EA380, I thought about that today but didn't want to put more salt on the wound. 

I was also thinking if Dubai could only get all the foreigners, locals buying real estate like we have back home in Canada. It's like we're world's apart when it comes to real estate. Our market is on fire, hopefully we're not in a bubble, but our fundamentals are much stronger, and our economy is vigilant/diverse. I wouldn't be surprised if we actually have much more construction at the moment than the UAE. Sellers are usually getting more than they are asking, and off loading property is fast, and simple. 

Back to Dubai, I actually want to see them get out of this slump so most of these exciting projects get built. I also know they haven't settled all there debt from the last down turn, and they're pushing hard now for the EXPO with massive additional construction.

Regarding Abu Dhabi they have a double whammy, low oil prices, and Sovereign Wealth Funds that have serious challenges in today's markets. I'm sure the last thing they need to worry about now is bailing out Dubai if worst comes to worst.


----------



## Gabriel900

^^ TBH it sounds as if the world is running out of options and a global crisis is bound to happen sooner or later. The question remains whether not if Dubai will be affected but if it will be affected as bad as back in 2008!?


----------



## noir-dresses

Gabriel900 said:


> ^^ TBH it sounds as if the world is running out of options and a global crisis is bound to happen sooner or later. The question remains whether not if Dubai will be affected but if it will be affected as bad as back in 2008!?


Gabriel it's not like the world is about to end, recessions are a normal cycle in every countries economy. Some are deeper, and some are easier to get through. They always come in cycles, like the US on average is around an eight year cycle. The reason the down turn hit Dubai hard back in 2009 was because they were way over leveraged, Abu Dhabi got through the down turn normally because they lived, and worked with in their means.

What made me mad, and also laugh at the same time when the down turn hit Dubai was both of my developers used Force Majeure to delay the projects, and protect themselves from paying out any penalties. To this day I've never seen this happen any where else, and the worst part is the developers got away with it every single time even though the investors paid everything on time following through agreed, and signed contract they had.


----------



## Gabriel900

noir-dresses said:


> Gabriel it's not like the world is about to end, recessions are a normal cycle in every countries economy. Some are deeper, and some are easier to get through. They always come in cycles, like the US on average is around an eight year cycle. The reason the down turn hit Dubai hard back in 2009 was because they were way over leveraged, Abu Dhabi got through the down turn normally because they lived, and worked with in their means.
> 
> What made me mad, and also laugh at the same time when the down turn hit Dubai was both of my developers used Force Majeure to delay the projects, and protect themselves from paying out any penalties. To this day I've never seen this happen any where else, and the worst part is the developers got away with it every single time even though the investors paid everything on time following through agreed, and signed contract they had.


Yeah I know it is a cycle but Dubai seems to be in an ultra vulnerable position every time; as I read it was hit the worst back then by the recession. I know I sound panicky and its majorly because I lack knowledge on the matter.

Then you have that issue of developers getting away with what you've mentioned, isn't it weird that still investors are willing to risk it and put their money in Dubai when as you said, were mistreated by these big companies back then? Unless government has applied a new set of rules to protect investors I don't see the reason for them to gamble at it again.

The way I see it, Dubai's economy nowadays is more diversified than back in 2008, that's why I myself believe it won't be as bad as back then. One example comes to mind is the new theme parks run by Meraas that will be completed and ready for tourists in 2 months period, they say they estimate around 7 million new visitors to hit Dubai because of their 4 new theme parks. I don't know how big of an effect this might have on Dubai's economy, but I am sure making the city an entertainment destination is one great step in the right direction.


----------



## noir-dresses

The worst, of the worst back in 2008 were the bankers, real estate agents, etc, etc in the States that created the Sub Prime fiasco that sunk the worlds economies into free fall. Now that was a huge scam, in a way it was brilliant, not very honorable either, and nobody really got punished for it. That crisis practically hit every sector of the economy everywhere. The worst part is they'll do it again, with different types of names added to the shenanigans, and even riskier methods. In the end what goes round, comes round. 

I would love if the whole world could just go bankrupt, that no one ever owns a dime to the sneaky bankers any more. We all start from scratch like Iceland letting them take the hit, and go bust. Instead countries, and individuals are in bondage while indebted for life.

As far as Dubai goes I'm not afraid for them, they have their vision, and motivation to achieve what they want in the end, god willing. You have to hand it to them they push, push, push, build, build, build, and worry about paying for it later. It all depends how one perceives what they are doing, some would say they are visionaries, and some would say they are over the top risk takers. In reality they wouldn't of been able to of lived off the sand in the desert when oil dries up, so they are actually doing what they had to do. If some one takes a hit, hey no problem the bigger/higher goal is that Dubai keeps pushing on. They took Las Vegas's motto to the next level " build it, and they will come". They came alright in drove the world has never seen before. Yes there will be ups, and downs, but investors themselves in the end make the decision if they want to ride out the hard times, and ride the wave in good times. 

Who knows maybe in the distant future when oil dries up, and the human race has moved on Dubai's lights will shine bright, while Abu Dhabi is a distant shadow of it's formal glory.


----------



## Freestyler

noir-dresses said:


> What made me mad, and also laugh at the same time when the down turn hit Dubai was both of my developers used Force Majeure to delay the projects, and protect themselves from paying out any penalties. To this day I've never seen this happen any where else, and the worst part is the developers got away with it every single time even though the investors paid everything on time following through agreed, and signed contract they had.


Tell me about it, I'm still dealing with a developer that I'm invested since 2008 and they don't want to pay the money back and move me to another project that not sure when it will finish. 

After 2008 experience I've only invested in completed properties.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

noir-dresses said:


> I was also thinking if Dubai could only get all the foreigners, locals buying real estate like we have back home in Canada. It's like we're world's apart when it comes to real estate. Our market is on fire, hopefully we're not in a bubble, but our fundamentals are much stronger, and our economy is vigilant/diverse. I wouldn't be surprised if we actually have much more construction at the moment than the UAE. Sellers are usually getting more than they are asking, and off loading property is fast, and simple.
> 
> Back to Dubai, I actually want to see them get out of this slump so most of these exciting projects get built. I also know they haven't settled all there debt from the last down turn, and they're pushing hard now for the EXPO with massive additional construction.
> 
> Regarding Abu Dhabi they have a double whammy, low oil prices, and Sovereign Wealth Funds that have serious challenges in today's markets. I'm sure the last thing they need to worry about now is bailing out Dubai if worst comes to worst.


That can never happen, mainly because the UAE is such a transient place. People only come here to work for a few years, or use it as a place to stay before they move somewhere else that will give them a different citizenship. 

Canada is not a good example though. Our real estate is extremely overpriced, and I'm expecting the bubble to burst soon, especially in Vancouver and Toronto. The banks and even the Bank of Canada have warned that the property market is in for a big correction.


----------



## datum1m

*More Sunland Threads*



axe2grind said:


> I suppose it would be expected that the Parrot would have to respond to something that Sunland Group Limited is now finding difficult. One has to ask how she is in such a privvy position to have access to all this "positive" information. Oh, I forgot she works for Sunland.
> 
> By the way skinny one, try posting without all the underlying sarcasm the only knucklehead is you!!!! and if you hadn't noticed there isn't one post in support of the position you are taking which is to put your head in the sand and you know which part of your body is exposed when you do that!!!!!
> 
> I suppose Sunland Group Limited, who the parrot works for, think they have made a smart move by doing the cosy deal with Enshaa. Well Abidian has now made the biggest mistake he could have and the reason is this.
> If you are an investor in PV Dubai then check your contract/reservation agreement to see who you contracted with. Your investment has been traded by Sunland Group Limited Australia and is now sitting in Palazzo Versace on the Gold Coast in Australia in a completed development. You have to follow the money!!!!
> 
> So Sunland Group Limited Australia having taken your money to Australia and investing it in a completed project I think all investors should be thanking Abidian for thinking of them first and not himself as he has done in the past. Just remember how Emirates Sunland have dealt with investors on the White Bay project in UAQ and questions should also be asked as to whose money paid for the plot on the Dubai Waterfront project.
> 
> So as your money is now in Australia it is possible to ask for it back or ask for a return on investment from Abidian and his shareholders.
> 
> Yes extremely unlikely to happen, so they have to be forced to do so and that means taking legal action against Sunland Group Ltd Australia in the Queensland courts. One noteworthy thing is that there had previously been a post about taking collective action in the courts in Dubai. Well that isn't possible here but a class action in Australia is and I am with Carol Alderson and so should all other investors who feel that they have been misled by Emirates Sunland and all the other BVI companies and their subsidiaries that they have been hiding behind.
> 
> On checking some of these companies it would appear that Emirates Sunland does not own the land that PV Dubai is built on but is owned by a subsidiary. This is illegal in Dubai and the Emirates and is part of the underlying deception that has been going on with this development.
> 
> There has been quite a bit in the Australian press regarding Sunland Group of late and I will post the articles serparately, quite embarassing stuff especially for the head of Sunland Groups middle east operations, Mr. David Brown.
> 
> And finally another one for Skinnygirl, please make up your mind when the completion date is as you have posted yet another one without any substantiation. Its boring love!!!!


Are there any other Sunland Threads, because I missed this one for many years?


----------



## samcapri

samcapri said:


> guys Brexit will not impact GB as it was well cooked prior to present to public. lets close this chapter and stop sentiment
> 
> back t our topic , three days back i read a report that property prices ( apartment) declined 5.5% year on year. i also listened to this report in the radio. now I couldn't find it anywhere the report or podcast , very very interesting . does anyone have a clue about this ghost/report?




back to the original topic and plenty of contradictions and biased reports. i am still looking for that report that shows 5.5 decline year on year in second quarter

in the meantime, let's hear our experts ( to name few noir-dresses, Ea380, pleth, Gabriel and other members) thoughts on this report published this week by arabian business and dubizzle that shows Dubai properties bottoming out in Q2


http://m.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-property-prices-show-signs-of-bottoming-out-in-q2-641760.html


----------



## noir-dresses

One thing is for sure, I've noticed rents are still dropping on bayut.com/ae, plus their is a high vacancy level on the market.

I wouldn't take dubizzle to seriously.

https://www.bayut.com/ae


----------



## noir-dresses

My weekly oil report had a very good ending to the week which is great news. Monday oil rose a bit due to a out of the blue OPEC meeting that will take place in Algeria at the end of September with the hopes of an oil freeze before the actual meeting that was suppose to take place in Nov/Dec.

On Tuesday oil dropped a bit, and on Wednesday it dropped drastically because of the US inventory report added a couple million barrels more to the glut. 

Thursday, and Friday oil rebounded veraciously because traders feel some hope the OPEC suppliers will finally be able to make a deal.

Oil ended the week with WTI @ 44.69 a barrel, and Brent @ 47.16 a barrel.

https://www.dailyfx.com/crude-oil

Let's see how oil performs next week, and let's not forget the whole rally this week is based on OPEC suppliers the KSA, and Iraq/Iran making a deal to freeze out put levels. We've seen many meetings fall apart because Iran won't freeze out put because they still feel they haven't yet reach per sanction levels.

Also we're in the price territory where the US will start opening up the taps because they feel comfortable with the price.

A real recovery in the price of oil will be when demand starts to out strip supply, and for that to happen the world economy needs to pick up.


----------



## samcapri

World economy sees only US picking up ( at least on the numbers). My take on this, we might see oil around 80 $ by end of this year then dubai properties will start picking up.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Yes, it all depends on the oil price. Dubai's real estate market will only pick up once that goes up. Even if it rises by the end of the year, we won't be seeing the effects on Dubai property prices until at least mid 2017. 

And I wouldn't trust dubizzle too much. They probably want more traffic to their site during the slower summer months.


----------



## noir-dresses

samcapri said:


> World economy sees only US picking up ( at least on the numbers). My take on this, we might see oil around 80 $ by end of this year then dubai properties will start picking up.


Easy let's take baby steps, the only reason oil is rising at the moment is because of speculation oil output might be frozen. The reality is we have a huge glut, and every supplier is pumping at record amounts trying not to lose market share, plus they are addicted to the cash flow.

We've seen this scenario so many times before, hope of unity with a concrete plan within the oil producers, but they never seem to agree to anything. The highly anticipated recovery that was suppose to take place end of 2016 has now been pushed into 2017. All you need is just Iran not agreeing to any freeze/cut, and it's back to square one with an instant drop.

Like I said the real recovery will be when demand outstrips production, and for that to happen the world economy needs to pick up pace. 

I also need to stress the fact that the UAE's oil is Brent, so focus more on that. The UAE exports most of it's oil to Asia, especially Japan whose economy is in a standstill with next to no growth. Also follow the Dubai spread, it trades a lot of UAE, and Omani oil.


----------



## Gabriel900




----------



## noir-dresses

A good article/read from Bloomberg regarding the oil industry for those who are interested.

The oil market hears what it wants to hear.

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/ar...ket-hears-what-it-wants-but-it-s-just-chatter


----------



## Freestyler

noir-dresses said:


> A good article/read from Bloomberg regarding the oil industry for those who are interested.
> 
> The oil market hears what it wants to hear.
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/ar...ket-hears-what-it-wants-but-it-s-just-chatter


I agree supply is high relative to the current demand so I don't expect oil price to go up sharply. But if it stays around $50, imo, it will be ok.

When everyone was doomy and gloomy on oil price (stay below $30 for long time) I did say it will reach $50 in 1.5 year: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=131034363&postcount=36123

But it was very conservative view and it has reached that level in 6 months now.


----------



## noir-dresses

Freestyler said:


> I agree supply is high relative to the current demand so I don't expect oil price to go up sharply. But if it stays around $50, imo, it will be ok.
> 
> When everyone was doomy and gloomy on oil price (stay below $30 for long time) I did say it will reach $50 in 1.5 year: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=131034363&postcount=36123
> 
> But it was very conservative view and it has reached that level in 6 months now.


True, I just want to actually see them really do something this time instead of just talk about it.


----------



## True Blue

Oil price isn't the biggest threat to Dubai's tourism and property market. The biggest threat is the strong US dollar. You're all watching the wrong thing.


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> Oil price isn't the biggest threat to Dubai's tourism and property market. The biggest threat is the strong US dollar. You're all watching the wrong thing.


The UAE needs a significant higher oil price for those much needed high amounts of disposable funds to be spent in all sectors of the economy let it be what ever currency it may be.

I would also stress that I believe terrorism, and war is a bigger threat to Dubai's tourism, and property market than a strong USD. Europeans are just not biting any more like they use to due to what we are experiencing over here on the European mainland. The fact is the Middle East is just not in any more.


----------



## Freestyler

True Blue said:


> Oil price isn't the biggest threat to Dubai's tourism and property market. The biggest threat is the strong US dollar. You're all watching the wrong thing.


Yup value of the USD is the main thing as far as property prices are concerned, but watching price of oil is not wrong too as it reflects the value of dollar too (and it gives this region cash flows).

Lets say there is value of USD is going down, and even though if there is supply glut, but price of oil will still keep rising. It is not just with oil, every other commodity is traded in USD internationally so value of USD affects every commodity.

But I don't like to see the value of USD go down much because it would start inflationary fears like 2007/2008 and that will create other problems.

What I like to see: oil prices between $50 to $70, reasonable long-term inflation, stable long-term interest rates under 5%. It will give much more certainty to businesses and more sustained growth.


----------



## Saint_

Canceled said:


> I don't think so. The uae depends on the "not dollar" economy.


The strong dollar is the main reason why I have not re-invested in Dubai in recent times. Converting non-dollar currency like GBP into AED at today's rate is an absolute non-starter when you look at the 5-10 year FX charts.


----------



## noir-dresses

How deep in debt are UAE residents

A number of households have been feeling the pinch and left with no cash buffers as the economic environment remains subdued, owing to the decline in oil prices. Employment opportunities are still limited and reports of job cuts haven’t completely settled , while the high cost of living continues to put pressure on household budgets.

http://gulfnews.com/business/money/uae-personal-loans-jump-7-5-to-dh430-billion-1.1880390


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> Oil price isn't the biggest threat to Dubai's tourism and property market. The biggest threat is the strong US dollar. You're all watching the wrong thing.


Yes.


----------



## noir-dresses

Opec freeze wouldn’t be so potent as Gulf rivals pump more

With major producers pumping at or close to capacity, they have little to lose by agreeing to a cap

There are still reasons to think Iran could be reluctant to join a freeze.

The nation will refuse to accept any limits as long as officials insist they can boost output further, said Eugen Weinberg, head of commodities research at Commerzbank AG in Frankfurt. Iran is also trying to attract billions of dollars of investment from international oil companies to expand production capacity, which would conflict with submitting to a cap, said Harry Tchilinguirian, head of commodity markets strategy at BNP Paribas SA.

http://gulfnews.com/business/sector...-so-potent-as-gulf-rivals-pump-more-1.1881814


----------



## dubaiprojects

*my tower*

I have seen amazing offers like 2 bed for 1.4m in My Tower project in marina which is 80% done. The building has nice views overlooking marina.
So whats the catch there?


cheers


----------



## Gabriel900

dubaiprojects said:


> I have seen amazing offers like 2 bed for 1.4m in My Tower project in marina which is 80% done. The building has nice views overlooking marina.
> So whats the catch there?
> 
> 
> cheers


The building won't be handed over or completed this decade! It is practically On Hold


----------



## True Blue

Freestyler said:


> Financial times has whole section on issues related to Brexit, and they are not scant articles.
> 
> As for the dollar vs pound I already gave my view on it. If you want the pound to go up anytime soon, well, it is not gonna up up any time soon.
> 
> All I can say is, enjoy the rentals in pounds they are giving good value in pounds.


They are scant because they have a specific agenda! I have highlighted the important bits for you.



> *The FT advocates free markets[34] and is in favour of globalisation.* During the 1980s it supported Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan's monetarist policies.[35][36] It has supported the UK Labour Party in the past, including at the general election in 1992 when Neil Kinnock was Labour leader.
> 
> *The FT's editorials tend to be moderately pro-Europe, supporting the European Union* in the context of a common economic market and opposing political integration.[37][38] The FT was firmly opposed to the Iraq War.[37]
> 
> In the general election in the UK in 2010 the FT was receptive to the Liberal Democrats' positions on civil liberties and political reform, and praised the then Labour leader Gordon Brown for his response to the global financial crisis of 2007–2008, but on balance *it backed the Conservatives while questioning their tendency to Euroscepticism*.


So you see, the FT is pro Europe and prints articles with that slant. They also receive hefty EU grants for their backing. Of course they have whole sections on Brexit which are full of scaremongering, soaked up by many including yourself apparently.


----------



## Pleth

True Blue said:


> They are scant because they have a specific agenda! I have highlighted the important bits for you.
> 
> 
> 
> So you see, the FT is pro Europe and prints articles with that slant. They also receive hefty EU grants for their backing. Of course they have whole sections on Brexit which are full of scaremongering, soaked up by many including yourself apparently.


Just like BBC and all national TV channels in EU are receiving grants from EU. hno:


----------



## glover

*Is Britain on the verge of a Brexit-fuelled house price crash? Only the data will tell*

According to Zoopla, real estate transactions in the UK fell in the last three months compared to the nine months before a staggering:
in London by 73% 
in Oxfordshire by 72%
in Berkshire by 71%
in Gloucestershire and Buckinghamshire by 70%. 
The smallest fall was 61%, in the East Riding of Yorkshire.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/25/brexit-crash-house-prices-referendum


----------



## noir-dresses

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/25/arts/city-of-possibilities-etienne-malapert/index.html

City of possibilities


----------



## noir-dresses

Oil this week couldn't hold on to the gains it made into the 50's. WTI is @ 47.64 USD a barrel, and Brent was @ 49.92 a barrel.

https://www.dailyfx.com/crude-oil


----------



## noir-dresses

True Blue said:


> They are scant because they have a specific agenda! I have highlighted the important bits for you.
> 
> 
> 
> So you see, the FT is pro Europe and prints articles with that slant. They also receive hefty EU grants for their backing. Of course they have whole sections on Brexit which are full of scaremongering, soaked up by many including yourself apparently.


People as for now there is no financial ruin in the UK, nor the EU because of Brexit.


----------



## noir-dresses

Iraq Can Crush OPEC's Oil Freeze Believers

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/ar...-has-power-to-crush-opec-oil-freeze-believers


----------



## donik

What is the best area to buy 1 BR in Dubai as investment at the moment?


----------



## UAE Investor

I know this is a bit off Dubai talk here ..but after my travels i got an invite to the opening night of the newest super tall in bangkok.

Such a simple but brilliant design...amazing!






Music from live ochestra below VIP..

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=135059628#post135059628

:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai property faces short-term Brexit effects.

According to an early gathering of feedback from propertyfinder.ae's partners, there are already two distinct short-term effects being felt in Dubai.

On the one hand, a small but noticeable number of UK owners with property for sale in the emirate have reduced their asking prices - taking advantage of the weak pound against the dollar/dirham.

On the other hand, a number of UK investors that had expressed interest in buying here are now apparently holding back.

http://khaleejtimes.com/business/real-estate/dubai-property-faces-short-term-brexit-effects


----------



## UAE Investor

^^^^

As my previous post points out....there is not much architectualy that stimulates in Dubai, design wise anymore....

Just Developers trying to make a buck with no real lasting interest.

:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

Weekly oil report has oil dropping Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday then finally on Friday it went up again.

WTI is @ 44.44 USD a barrel, and Brent is @ 46.83 USD a barrel.

https://www.dailyfx.com/crude-oil


----------



## noir-dresses

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2016-09-04/putin-oil-freeze-exemption-for-iran-raises-questions-for-saudis

Putin oil freeze exemption to Iran raises questions for Saudis.

A good read for those who are interested. There just might be a solid deal brokered, and implemented.


----------



## Rider

Does anyone what a 2 bed marina facing unit in the Torch might fetch rental wise in the current climate?

Tenant currently paying 130k, rental increase calculator says 5% increase but my agent suggests that getting such an increase is unlikely in the current climate.


----------



## chefdude

Rider

You could use this as a yardstick to gauge market rates

https://dubai.dubizzle.com/property...l_estate_agent=&landlord=&property_developer=


----------



## Rider

chefdude said:


> Rider
> 
> You could use this as a yardstick to gauge market rates
> 
> https://dubai.dubizzle.com/property...l_estate_agent=&landlord=&property_developer=


Thanks chef. 
I wasn't sure how much reliance can be placed on dubizzle prices these days as they have often been unrealistic in the past.


----------



## arfie

Rider said:


> Does anyone what a 2 bed marina facing unit in the Torch might fetch rental wise in the current climate?
> 
> Tenant currently paying 130k, rental increase calculator says 5% increase but my agent suggests that getting such an increase is unlikely in the current climate.


130k currently for 2 bed in the Torch is good going. A lot of units on the market for 120-125k so I would be surprised if your tenant agreed to the increase.


----------



## Rider

arfie said:


> 130k currently for 2 bed in the Torch is good going. A lot of units on the market for 120-125k so I would be surprised if your tenant agreed to the increase.


Thanks Arfie. 

I have suggested we stick to 130 which isn't bad when factoring in the strong USD/AED and also avoids a gap in between tenants.


----------



## noir-dresses

I'm really really really liking the cultural direction Dubai is taking regarding the additional building of libraries, opera house, museums, etc, etc. Keep it coming Dubai, there's never enough of this type of offering to better the human spirit.


----------



## noir-dresses

My weekly oil report has oil rising Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday then on Friday it dropped again. Was an interesting week for oil with the US inventory recording a drop in reserves due to a hurricane, the hope of an OPEC oil freeze is still on the table with the upcoming meeting at the end of this month.

WTI is @ 45.88 USD a barrel, and Brent is @ 48.01 USD a barrel for the end of the week.

https://www.dailyfx.com/crude-oil


----------



## chefdude

noir-dresses said:


> Just by interest what exactly are you getting at when you mention it's simply with the fairies, I'd really like to know your angle here?
> 
> Tell me what's your take on rogue unlicensed real estate agents/management services providers in Dubai?


You raise some interesting points here some that I don’t feel qualified to give an opinion on but I think your justice radar may be pointing in the wrong direction.

It seems to me that it is some of the licensed real estate companies that have so far proven to be the most corrupt and acted illegally towards their landlords and tenants. 

Here are 2 prime examples of multi million dirham frauds perpetrated by established real estate agents

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/nation/crime/agent-in-dubai-swindles-millions-disappears
http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-...n-new-dh80-million-dubai-property-rental-scam

How many emails and phone calls a week do you receive from agents asking if you want to sell or rent your property? Cold calling is illegal here yet every licensed broker ignores this as an inconvenience.

How about the RERA registered developers that have stolen money from investors by taking payments on properties that were never built? 

How about those handing over delayed properties of 3 – 5 years without paying fair compensation and simply offering “force majeure” as there loophole?

I am interested to hear your opinion as to what constitutes “contributing to the real economy” since I can only see its the purchase of a trade licence, don’t forget there is no tax on company earnings.

I would suggest that both tourist and resident alike contribute to the “real economy” every day they spend in the UAE.

You run a car so you have to purchase the yearly licence from RTA
We buy petrol from the government companies,
You pay a Salik fee for using some of the roads 
You pay tax and service charge every time you go for a meal or a drink in the hotels, (cafes and the like outside the hotels it’s just tax)
There is a housing fee on the DEWA bills collected at source yet another contribution
There is a fuel surcharge on both DEWA and Chilled water bills despite oil prices being at multi year lows
If you want a night away in a hotel you pay a tourism fee charge on top of the other 20%
Airport departure tax
Sponsorship of family visa, Typing centres, Medical fees

The list goes on and on and on and shows that everybody spending time in Dubai supports the local economy whether they wish to or not.


----------



## noir-dresses

Let's focus more on what's legal, and moral regarding real estate agent's.

Regarding contributing to the real economy would you say a drug dealer, pimp, smuggler, etc, do the real Dubai economy any favors just because they pump gas into their cars, pay SALIK, pay rent, eat at restaurants, or basically spend funds on products/services/fees that trickle into the economy? Obviously NO, nor do unlicensed agents contribute in a meaningful manner. The law is the law, and that's the way it should be, but unfortunately it's not regulated properly yet.

To make a long story short the property market in Dubai could do better if it got rid of many unwanted, greedy, lying, cheating, scamming, law abusing, conniving agents who would do any thing to make a buck, instead of following the RERA rules of proper business practice.


----------



## samcapri

Report says that dubai properties prices are bottoming, do you agree? I think it is a biased report 

http://blog.reidin.com/dubai-the-na...arketing&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=unitas


----------



## samcapri

Noir-dresses, I miss your analysis on oil prices


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

The Mastercard annual Global Destinations Cities Index is out for 2016, and predicts that Dubai will receive 15.27m international overnight visitors this year. Here is the top ten: 

Bangkok – 21.47m
London – 19.88m
Paris – 18.03m
Dubai – 15.27m
New York – 12.75m
Singapore – 12.11m
Kuala Lumpur – 12.02m
Istanbul – 11.95m
Tokyo – 11.70m
Seoul – 11.20m

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/lists/most-visited-cities-2016-overseas-arrivals/


----------



## Pleth

I think I have asked the question before, but I still do not know anybody who has the property visa.
Does any of you hold the property visa?
What is the cost for it, over how many years?
Where can I read about it?


----------



## dubaiprojects

Pleth said:


> I think I have asked the question before, but I still do not know anybody who has the property visa.
> Does any of you hold the property visa?
> What is the cost for it, over how many years?
> Where can I read about it?


I might go for it and you can do it yourself by visiting the dept.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/personal-finance/uae-property-visas-all-you-need-to-know

http://www.saadarif.net/dubai-property-visa-rules-obtain-investor-visa-uae/

cheers


----------



## farnush

Hello investors, 

I would like to ask you experts a theoritical question - if you had to buy a home in dubai and would take a personal loan and mortgage to buy a home - where would you invest in and why ?

Budget : 1 - 1.3 million

1. Where ? 
2. Type (Apt / villa / townhouse ) ?
3. Why ?

Thanks


----------



## dubaiprojects

farnush said:


> Hello investors,
> 
> I would like to ask you experts a theoritical question - if you had to buy a home in dubai and would take a personal loan and mortgage to buy a home - where would you invest in and why ?
> 
> Budget : 1 - 1.3 million
> 
> 1. Where ?
> 2. Type (Apt / villa / townhouse ) ?
> 3. Why ?
> 
> Thanks


Read to move in or off plan?


----------



## farnush

ready to move is preferable but off plan is worth it if there is a capital appreciation.


----------



## dubaiprojects

farnush said:


> ready to move is preferable but off plan is worth it if there is a capital appreciation.


For off plan read the following article.
https://sakkini.com/getting-off-plan-property-mortgage-in-the-uae/

As with regards to ready move in, it depends on your preferences (for self living, for investment purpose). It does not make a sense to take a loan for ready to move in, for the purpose of rental income, because all of your income will go into payments of your loan and you will be the owner after such a long time. However it is worth it if you want to buy for self living because then you dont have to pay the rent. (other than maint fee).

Your budget is good for a top call studio in marina that may fetch you around 80k per year rent. 

Cheers


----------



## Rider

dubaiprojects said:


> Read to move in or off plan?


Off plan is far too risky. 

The authorities have offered investors little protection against rogue developers over the years and the UAE legal system can't be relied upon


----------



## Freestyler

Tedious said:


> Off plan only if you are a native Dubai citizen. Otherwise you are second class, legally, and can be screwed over at will.


Native citizen got screwed by developers too. Hence, I usually say if you buying off first thoroughly check the reputation and history of delivered projects by the developer. Have to be very careful with off plan.


----------



## HPDubai

HPDubai said:


> My prediction is that GB in the end will not send the letter to trigger art 50. Cameron has already delayed sending it by 3 months. A worsening situation when more of the consequences become clear and further wriggling and side stepping will lead to a situation where A) nobody is brave enough to send the letter and B) anyway parlement will not allow to send it. We are in for some wild swings in currency and property values.


The above was my prediction made on July 8. I still believe Brexit will not happen. Coming Monday the High Court will rule on the right of parliament to vote on art 50. The pound will be in for some wild swings.


----------



## True Blue

Brexit is going to happen. UK is a democracy.

The failure is with the Government of the day who did not foresee the outcome and have made no plans for it, hence the real reason for the departure of David Cameron for his almighty f-up!


----------



## speculator

True Blue said:


> Brexit is going to happen. UK is a democracy.
> 
> The failure is with the Government of the day who did not foresee the outcome and have made no plans for it, hence the real reason for the departure of David Cameron for his almighty f-up!


Yes of course it's a democracy ruled by the banksters.


----------



## Rider

speculator said:


> Yes of course it's a democracy ruled by the banksters.


Electoral/referendum campaigns have descended into a complete farce in the UK and the US - hardly a great advertisement for what a democracy should be. 

Both sides of the Brexit campaign sunk to embarrassing lows with all the lying and scare mongering tactics. The less said about the US Election the better - it's like the two blooper acts reaching the final of X Factor.


----------



## speculator

Rider said:


> Electoral/referendum campaigns have descended into a complete farce in the UK and the US - hardly a great advertisement for what a democracy should be.
> 
> Both sides of the Brexit campaign sunk to embarrassing lows with all the lying and scare mongering tactics. The less said about the US Election the better - it's like the two blooper acts reaching the final of X Factor.



And the scots are pushing for another referendum and I believe next time the media won't be able to manipulate so easily. Not looking good for England.


----------



## Green Hornet

farnush said:


> Hello investors,
> 
> I would like to ask you experts a theoritical question - if you had to buy a home in dubai and would take a personal loan and mortgage to buy a home - where would you invest in and why ?
> 
> Budget : 1 - 1.3 million
> 
> 1. Where ?
> 2. Type (Apt / villa / townhouse ) ?
> 3. Why ?
> 
> Thanks


Not sure I would buy anything in Dubai.

Basically it's not a mature and developed market.In many other countries prices rise,have some falls here and there but keep rising.In Dubai it goes from one extreme to the other.It's impossible to know where prices will be in 3/5 years for example especially considering the amount of homes that are still being built.People do not settle in Dubai like in other cities and so it is just a transient city.This has an effect on prices. I bought two units in 2007.The square metre price went up,down,up,down.Now one is worth what I paid for it and the other is slightly more.If I sell I will make a profit only because when I bought them the pound was very strong and now it is very weak so if I sold and brought the money back to the UK I've made money.I've made money also on rent but that's a separate issue.


----------



## speculator

Green Hornet said:


> Not sure I would buy anything in Dubai.
> 
> Basically it's not a mature and developed market.In many other countries prices rise,have some falls here and there but keep rising.In Dubai it goes from one extreme to the other.It's impossible to know where prices will be in 3/5 years for example especially considering the amount of homes that are still being built.People do not settle in Dubai like in other cities and so it is just a transient city.This has an effect on prices. I bought two units in 2007.The square metre price went up,down,up,down.Now one is worth what I paid for it and the other is slightly more.If I sell I will make a profit only because when I bought them the pound was very strong and now it is very weak so if I sold and brought the money back to the UK I've made money.I've made money also on rent but that's a separate issue.


Well I've done very well. Can't complain at all.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

FutureViewDxb said:


> I've been on this forum since 2004 under a bunch of different names, yes this place has gone stone cold. :dead:
> 
> In the last 14 years or so I've built up a portfolio of nearly 50 rental units- that I still hold- in Dubai. I'm proud of Dubai for the most part.
> 
> 
> *Investor friendly?*
> 
> One thing I see today however in the market is that there is not that investor support there once was. The support that enticed us to come and invest in the first place.
> 
> 
> *Rents and Much Needed Capital Appreciation*
> 
> In order for me to buy into Dubai today I have to be convinced (by Dubai) that rents will increase over time. That the government supports this growth too.
> 
> *Why?*
> 
> Because ultimately rents (_and only rents_) determine my next sale price in Dubai. If rents go down, the capital value of my investment will follow.
> 
> Lack of capital appreciation is bad, and devastating to net worth over time, particularly with a mortgage involved.
> 
> Couple this with institutions such as the Dubai Rent Committee and the media allowing a general disdain for the LandLord and I get slightly nervous.
> 
> I am not being overly sensitive here, but we _*were*_ told to come and put our money into Dubai way back when, with open arms.:heart:
> 
> I feel we have been sent mixed messages - are investors wanted in Dubai or not?
> 
> 
> 
> *Mortgage products and Banks*
> 
> With the fed rate (and therefore EIBOR) rising and rents lowering, the prospect for those investors who are leveraged in the market does not look great.
> 
> Leverage is good, banks should be as supportive as possible of the investor in this regard. *A mortgage is an excellent growth tool*. Growing the investor of course helps to grow Dubai.
> 
> I feel the mortgage market is EXTREMELY shark like here. I've seen all the tricks at sign up, that quickly turn sour, being used. :nuts:
> 
> If Dubai really is investor friendly she needs to put a strong sense of social conscience on the lending banks today, right now, as the market begins to face the challenges of rate rises and lowering rents. This is not hard to do, they are profiteering in this area big time.
> 
> 
> *Collapsing yields*
> 
> If you do get a high net yield I feel that today this is extraordinary in residential (8 percent net plus). We can manage this with a few tricks, like throwing in some furniture in our own portfolio, but let's say it is definitely outside the norm.
> 
> 
> The effect of yield compression means as rents come down yields start to look very pedestrian in general. Any further yield compression and capital values *will* follow.
> 
> If rents stay steady capital values will hold at these lower (compressed) yields.
> 
> *But But but but* there seems to be no prospect at all (in a universal sense for Dubai) that rents, and therefore the all important capital value of your investment, will increase.
> 
> 
> *The million dollar question for me is... *
> 
> Where will my growth come from over the next five years?
> 
> 
> *FX Rates Matter too*-_I also face a likely 20 per cent loss on my home country currency over the next few years to factor in too. Growth must be therefore 'at least' able to cover this._
> 
> 
> _Short version: More supply, lowering rents, costlier borrowing, poor mortgage market, Very bad investor sentiment & support- means poor yields and no growth prospects in Dubai medium term. Prospect of a weakening Dirham Long term too for some of us._
> 
> 
> :cheers:



*The long and short of it* (in fact) *is*:

There is no compelling case for the very much needed 'foreign investor' to swoop in and buy your property off you at a profit in the run up to 2020.

Ask any Palm Viceroy investor what happens when predicted rental yields (used to justify a sales price) fall pathetically short.

*The best thing that could happen* is a government policy to kick in to actively encourage landlords, via capped lending rates (_and non-neanderthal mortgage products & lending tactics_) to accept lower yields.

Despite this vilification of the Landlord in Dubai by DRC and the Media, they are the BACKBONE of the economy as it expands.

Go to Dubai Reddit and ask anyone there (_who make up a perfect sample of the work force in Dubai who could buy a property here_) if they would consider buying. 

You will get a resounding *"No thank you"* hno:

*Dubai needs buy to let investors. Fact.*

Getting such poor responses here (even when they do surface), simply confirms my argument I feel.


----------



## Approve

What's the best place for uncensored financial news about Dubai?


----------



## dubayyy

FutureViewDxb said:


> *The long and short of it* (in fact) *is*:
> 
> Ask any Palm Viceroy investor what happens when predicted rental yields (used to justify a sales price) fall pathetically short.




What rental yields are Viceroy investors actually receiving...and what yields were promised to them?


----------



## Impy

*GULF NEWS PROPERTY SECTION ARTICLE TODAY*

http://gulfnews.com/business/proper...2b-in-robust-first-half-performance-1.2066229


----------



## amplesou

Always Risk with off plan, in Dubai....

Approx 25% will lose there money and 25% will wait up to ten years for handover.

Developers will have part money and there profit, so they are under no pressure to complete till they see fit (conflict of interest).


FACT!


----------



## Rider

It does seem as though many Saudis are viewing Dubai as their equivalent to Las Vegas. Lots more flights coming in and out of Saudi than compared to back in the day.


----------



## borolad

impact of mosque building next to timeplace?


----------



## Rider

borolad said:


> impact of mosque building next to timeplace?


Ka-ching for the window soundproofing firms.


----------



## DUBAI INVESTOR

Has the online newspaper Arabian Business been banned in UAE ? Unable access ..


----------



## dubayyy

DUBAI INVESTOR said:


> Has the online newspaper Arabian Business been banned in UAE ? Unable access ..




It was ordered to cease publication for a month as punishment for printing an erroneous article about cancelled real estate projects in Dubai. This article was picked up and heavily promoted by the Qatari press. 

It should be back online in a couple of weeks.


----------



## True Blue

^^ "Exclusive". The most abused word in Dubai real estate. 

New meaning; "Always plenty of availability and we take all forms of payment from absolutely anyone" :lol: 

How can you trust anyone who refers to The Marina as "exclusive". :nono:


----------



## Rider

Hey guys, does anyone know if an overseas based landlord can take care of a rental renewal himself/herself by using the Dubaigov website or is an agent required to be involved? 

My agent is starting to take advantage of the fact that I'm based overseas by (over)charging for every tiny little task these days and I'm wondering if I can generate the contract myself and get the tenant to pay straight into my bank account or send the post dated cheques to my bank in UAE so that the bank can hold and deposit when the date comes. 

There seems to be a growing trend where agents are charging both buyer and seller and tenant/landlord these days. As far as I know in most countries is usually one or the other.


----------



## chefdude

Rider.

Most of the banks wont hold cheques so you would be relying on your tenants not to take advantage of you and forget to pay the rent, this often doesn't end well.

The new online contracts are available at a cost of around AED 150 from a few places and you can pay with paypal so theoretically you could tackle the renewal yourself.


----------



## grapemint

With 2.5mln AED budget to invest (buy to let), would it be better to buy 2BR at Iris Blue Marina (I really like the open views from 2BR + quality seem to be superior to other towers) or 1BR at Old Town Island overlooking Burj Khalifa or perhaps 1BR Tiara on the Palm? All three would be in a very similar price range. All have big balconies and nice views. I really like locations of all of them. Which will hold better value and be easier to let?


----------



## speculator

grapemint said:


> With 2.5mln AED budget to invest (buy to let), would it be better to buy 2BR at Iris Blue Marina (I really like the open views from 2BR + quality seem to be superior to other towers) or 1BR at Old Town Island overlooking Burj Khalifa or perhaps 1BR Tiara on the Palm? All three would be in a very similar price range. All have big balconies and nice views. I really like locations of all of them. Which will hold better value and be easier to let?


Id go for the the marina.


----------



## dubayyy

grapemint said:


> With 2.5mln AED budget to invest (buy to let), would it be better to buy 2BR at Iris Blue Marina (I really like the open views from 2BR + quality seem to be superior to other towers) or 1BR at Old Town Island overlooking Burj Khalifa or perhaps 1BR Tiara on the Palm? All three would be in a very similar price range. All have big balconies and nice views. I really like locations of all of them. Which will hold better value and be easier to let?




I’d go for the 1 bed on Old Town Island. This will always be super prime real estate. Think Mayfair, Knightsbridge, Times Square, etc


----------



## grapemint

dubayyy said:


> I’d go for the 1 bed on Old Town Island. This will always be super prime real estate. Think Mayfair, Knightsbridge, Times Square, etc


I have a friend living on Old Town island 1BR and he is extremely happy with the location and facilities, he seems to prefer this location to Marina, where he lived the past 2 years.

What do you think (from investment perspective) about 1BR with private garden on Old Island vs 1BR overlooking Burj Khalifa? Both seem to be very nice, I assume those ground floor with garden are going to be darker inside.


----------



## dubayyy

grapemint said:


> I have a friend living on Old Town island 1BR and he is extremely happy with the location and facilities, he seems to prefer this location to Marina, where he lived the past 2 years.
> 
> What do you think (from investment perspective) about 1BR with private garden on Old Island vs 1BR overlooking Burj Khalifa? Both seem to be very nice, I assume those ground floor with garden are going to be darker inside.


If I was going to live in it personally then I would go for a ground floor unit with a large private garden. If for letting out then I'd go for the BK view. Less maintenance involved and will also be easier to rent. Either unit will be a great investment and both will increase in value over the medium/long term. 

If I had to make one investment in Dubai today it would be Old Town Island. You can't get more Central Dubai than this!


----------



## grapemint

dubayyy said:


> If I was going to live in it personally then I would go for a ground floor unit with a large private garden. If for letting out then I'd go for the BK view. Less maintenance involved and will also be easier to rent. Either unit will be a great investment and both will increase in value over the medium/long term.
> 
> If I had to make one investment in Dubai today it would be Old Town Island. You can't get more Central Dubai than this!


Do you know how does it work with purchasing a property that is currently tenanted? Is the remaining rental amount (including any deposits) proportionally deducted from the sale value? On paper, it looks great to buy a property that is already rented out if the rental amount is fair.


----------



## dubayyy

grapemint said:


> Do you know how does it work with purchasing a property that is currently tenanted? Is the remaining rental amount (including any deposits) proportionally deducted from the sale value? On paper, it looks great to buy a property that is already rented out if the rental amount is fair.




Yes. You will be paid the proportion of rent due to you from the date of transfer.


----------



## Alex-London

*Azizi Riviera*

Hi, is Azizi riviera a good development to invest in ? Does anyone know the track record of the developer ? Thanks


----------



## amplesou

Dubai in the news again!

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...travel-uae-united-arab-emirates-a8016801.html


----------



## Essa

Hello,
So what is happening with real estate and the tax system that will come in place on 1st of Jan? Are we paying 5% of apartment price as tax to get our title deeds (in addition to 4% that goes to the land department and 2% for broker)?


----------



## icemannapoli

Essa said:


> Hello,
> So what is happening with real estate and the tax system that will come in place on 1st of Jan? Are we paying 5% of apartment price as tax to get our title deeds (in addition to 4% that goes to the land department and 2% for broker)?


No. VAT will not be applied to Real Estate


----------



## agod

IMO Only.

its very much all up in the air, I have read that there is VAT on Commercial Property, that Dubai Duty Free is also going to impose it, so not much Duty Free anymore! what about the Free Zones, are they Tax Free? no one can answer that Question.
I dont think the Authoritys have realised the Complexity of the Task, for those of us that have lived with VAT and Tax most of our lives know about this............one last thought, when you introduce, a Tax, People will go out of there way to avoid it, watch out for Cash Deals no VAT, and the Black Economy thriving.


----------



## agod

PM if you are Interested, I am selling one of my Studios, returns 8% Net.........

Naughty to do this here, but this is good..........Alan


----------



## tony501

*Wills in Dubai*

Hi---Does anybody know the procedure for doing Wills in Dubai for Non-Muslims.? Property Will:cheers:


----------



## arfie

Hi just getting back onto the topic of property prices in the region. Dubai market seems unique compared to others in the world where we have big increases then big dips over. In the last few years we've seen prices fall but leading up to 2020 does anyone here see potential capital growth in Dubai or did property prices peak in 2013/14 when Expo 2020 got announced. Interested in peoples views here!


----------



## agod

tony501 said:


> Hi---Does anybody know the procedure for doing Wills in Dubai for Non-Muslims.? Property Will:cheers:


Try these........................Be prepared to spend a lot of Money.

http://willsuae.com/new-dubai-law-no-15-nita-maru/ 

Alan


----------



## Jet7

Pay attention to the size and service charge is the only advice that I can give you.



Alex-London said:


> Hi, is Azizi riviera a good development to invest in ? Does anyone know the track record of the developer ? Thanks


----------



## UAE Investor

Roby2017 said:


> Azizi Riviera is one of the most popular project from Azizi Developments. They have received the developer of the year award from the Dubai Government and it is a good Invest Option as well.


I just don,t like the word Aziz...sounds dodgy to my ears?

:cheers:


----------



## erbse

A must-watch:

*How To Make An Attractive City*





YouTube: "The School of Life" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy4QjmKzF1c


----------



## jokerit

It's been about a year since I signed the SPA for an under-construction unit, but the developer has failed to do the Oqood registration. They hide behind some issues with DLD but refuse to disclose any details. I also haven't been successful getting any information from DLD directly over phone or email.. Planning to visit their office soon in person. 

Anyone faced similar issue ?

Seems my only option is the legal route .. I am in touch with a law firm already


----------



## FutureViewDxb

*Love you long time*

There's a funny thing about Dubai 

*Take for example rents:*

For all intents and purposes rents have collapsed.

We have seen up to 30% drops in rent in the past six months. The last two months have been particularly intense.

In many countries this would be considered tsunami-esque and newsworthy. 

_(This isn't a rental drop from some new overblown 'high' either. Rents collapsed in 2009, began to rise again, never quite reached the original levels properties were sold against and, now, have collapsed again. It's 'ground hog day' and a long-term investor's nightmare.)_


*Or, take for example sales:*

A valuation done for a bank on one property we own in 2015, was 38 percent lower just two years later, in 2017. 

While this presents a problem for the investor/landlord undoubtedly (_let's not feel for them right now_), it's also bad for Dubai inc. Lending banks can't work out criteria, and are either at serious risk or not lending, developer's forecasts go to the wall, service companies pack up, jobs are lost. All get hit.


*So....*

As rents continue to find their new lows, property values will follow (they have already) and investors will not only struggle to service mortgages, and get the first glimpse of potential negative equity, they will also begin to query the actual offering by Dubai inc.



*
Why invest in Dubai?* 

I mean, if you are not lightning fast and opportunistic, forget capital appreciation for one, and the rents being locked in today at new lows will take years to unwind (if you intend on sitting it out).


*Back to the funny thing about Dubai..*

The funny thing is, as far as I can tell, people are still buying(?), Dubai is still adding more stock to the investment pool, and newspapers aren't hitting the red alert button. Why?

The only way forward, that I can see, is ultra low lending rates, better mortgage products, in turn investors agreeing to lower yields on properties, and more effort on creating demand (or slowing delivery).


Whoever said good things come to those who wait, has not ridden the Dubai real estate cycle long enough.


----------



## grapemint

Emaar Beach Vista investment thoughts? They are supposed to release the floor plans by tomorrow. Also what's the advantage of going through a property agent for a brand new development vs going direct? Emaar sells properties on first come first serve basis. Do property agents have some priority access?


----------



## Jet7

Dubai Experts, I need your advice here:

A very known developer in Furjan has completed its project and is about to handover the keys. The issue is that they are asking for a huge service charge amount which is not justified at all by them. What’s the process to lodge a complaint in such a case? Please share your experience. Thanks


----------



## erbse

Looking at all these rather bland, repetetive and exchangeable new towers, I somehow miss the "good old" (sometimes tacky, but at least "Dubaian") postmodernism of Dubai in earlier days, specifically the 2000s and early 2010s... At least that style was creative and brought a recognizable, distinctive "Dubai style" to the city.

Think of marvels like the Burj Al Arab. Where's that imagination and creativity gone? 









https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Burjalarab1.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Burj_al_Arab_lobby_March_2008panob.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Burj_Al_Arab_-_panoramio_(3).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madinat_Jumeirah_with_Burj_Al_Arab_-_panoramio.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madinat_Jumeirah,_Dubai_(4129376800).jpg


----------



## grapemint

Does anyone have Emaar Platinum card and got the 2% DLD waiver + 2 years service charges waived? Were there any issues with using these benefits?


----------



## FutureViewDxb

FutureViewDxb said:


> There's a funny thing about Dubai
> 
> *Take for example rents:*
> 
> For all intents and purposes rents have collapsed.
> 
> We have seen up to 30% drops in rent in the past six months. The last two months have been particularly intense.
> 
> In many countries this would be considered tsunami-esque and newsworthy.
> 
> _(This isn't a rental drop from some new overblown 'high' either. Rents collapsed in 2009, began to rise again, never quite reached the original levels properties were sold against and, now, have collapsed again. It's 'ground hog day' and a long-term investor's nightmare.)_
> 
> 
> *Or, take for example sales:*
> 
> A valuation done for a bank on one property we own in 2015, was 38 percent lower just two years later, in 2017.
> 
> While this presents a problem for the investor/landlord undoubtedly (_let's not feel for them right now_), it's also bad for Dubai inc. Lending banks can't work out criteria, and are either at serious risk or not lending, developer's forecasts go to the wall, service companies pack up, jobs are lost. All get hit.
> 
> 
> *So....*
> 
> As rents continue to find their new lows, property values will follow (they have already) and investors will not only struggle to service mortgages, and get the first glimpse of potential negative equity, they will also begin to query the actual offering by Dubai inc.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Why invest in Dubai?*
> 
> I mean, if you are not lightning fast and opportunistic, forget capital appreciation for one, and the rents being locked in today at new lows will take years to unwind (if you intend on sitting it out).
> 
> 
> *Back to the funny thing about Dubai..*
> 
> The funny thing is, as far as I can tell, people are still buying(?), Dubai is still adding more stock to the investment pool, and newspapers aren't hitting the red alert button. Why?
> 
> The only way forward, that I can see, is ultra low lending rates, better mortgage products, in turn investors agreeing to lower yields on properties, and more effort on creating demand (or slowing delivery).
> 
> 
> Whoever said good things come to those who wait, has not ridden the Dubai real estate cycle long enough.



A bit simple and mono but then, that's how I like it:

When the demand for real estate is high, prices skyrocket. When the number of available properties increases, prices usually drop.


----------



## Viv

Hi all,

In relation to the last post - VAT in UAE - is it correct that a 5% VAT charge now applies to (residential) rental income? I've advised that since I do not have a UAE bank a/c the charge will apply.
I will of course, try to open a new a/c urgently (any suggestions for easiest bank to deal with?) otherwise I was thinking if its possible to take the rental in cash to avoid the charge? Is that possible?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## agod

No, there is no vat on Residential only on Commercial, of course this is the Beginning of he Great Vat Escape as many items will be cash......if you collect VAT then you would need to be Registered, and thats below the Threshold of 350000 I think (It will be a mess)

Emirates NBD, they have good online services.


----------



## True Blue

The main problem with VAT for Landlords is that it will apply to your service charges. As if there are not already enough challenges to get service charges under control.


----------



## CliffordDevo

arfie said:


> Hi just getting back onto the topic of property prices in the region. Dubai market seems unique compared to others in the world where we have big increases then big dips over. In the last few years we've seen prices fall but leading up to 2020 does anyone here see potential capital growth in Dubai or did property prices peak in 2013/14 when Expo 2020 got announced. Interested in peoples views here!


on this site https://yzerproperty.com/ you can very well make a monitoring and navigate the prices for real estate in the UAE. If the obtained result is compared with the prices of previous years I think the dynamics will be visible, and the conclusion is obvious!


----------



## Viv

Thanks guys.
As I understand it - the rental cheque is made out to my agents (company name) - they will be charged 5% VAT which is being passed down to me!
To avoid this, I need to open a bank account in my name and future rental cheques should be payable to me (unless the tenant pays cash).


----------



## julidzg

I didnt know where else to ask this:

Is it possible to add a mezzanine to a (own) studio with high ceilings? 

If the developer is ok with it, where to apply for the permits? and also, does anybody know about who or companies to do this project??

Thank you.


----------



## 974agk

*Utilities*

Afternoon All

Can anybody explain if the Housing Municipality Charge on the DEWA bills is correct.
I assumed it was only for tenants or the rental sector.
As I own the property solely I assumed I would be exempt from the charge.
Dewa advise it applicable to all bills.
Also recall paying a 6000AEd deposit for Palm Utilities albeit now changed to Empower nothing was retuned on changeover?

Are they correct with additional fees.
Apologies if wrong thread


:cheers:
Regards
Eck


----------



## siamu maharaj

Can you get a mortgage in Dubai with overseas income?


----------



## icemannapoli

siamu maharaj said:


> Can you get a mortgage in Dubai with overseas income?


yes


----------



## Rustamsalehin

Essa said:


> Hello,
> So what is happening with real estate and the tax system that will come in place on 1st of Jan? Are we paying 5% of apartment price as tax to get our title deeds (in addition to 4% that goes to the land department and 2% for broker)?


Legally 4% registration fee is shared by both seller and buyer. However, the percentage to be paid by buyer is negotiable between the two parties.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

FutureViewDxb said:


> There's a funny thing about Dubai
> 
> *Take for example rents:*
> 
> For all intents and purposes rents have collapsed.
> 
> We have seen up to 30% drops in rent in the past six months. The last two months have been particularly intense.
> 
> In many countries this would be considered tsunami-esque and newsworthy.
> 
> _(This isn't a rental drop from some new overblown 'high' either. Rents collapsed in 2009, began to rise again, never quite reached the original levels properties were sold against and, now, have collapsed again. It's 'ground hog day' and a long-term investor's nightmare.)_
> 
> 
> *Or, take for example sales:*
> 
> A valuation done for a bank on one property we own in 2015, was 38 percent lower just two years later, in 2017.
> 
> While this presents a problem for the investor/landlord undoubtedly (_let's not feel for them right now_), it's also bad for Dubai inc. Lending banks can't work out criteria, and are either at serious risk or not lending, developer's forecasts go to the wall, service companies pack up, jobs are lost. All get hit.
> 
> 
> *So....*
> 
> As rents continue to find their new lows, property values will follow (they have already) and investors will not only struggle to service mortgages, and get the first glimpse of potential negative equity, they will also begin to query the actual offering by Dubai inc.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Why invest in Dubai?*
> 
> I mean, if you are not lightning fast and opportunistic, forget capital appreciation for one, and the rents being locked in today at new lows will take years to unwind (if you intend on sitting it out).
> 
> 
> *Back to the funny thing about Dubai..*
> 
> The funny thing is, as far as I can tell, people are still buying(?), Dubai is still adding more stock to the investment pool, and newspapers aren't hitting the red alert button. Why?
> 
> The only way forward, that I can see, is ultra low lending rates, better mortgage products, in turn investors agreeing to lower yields on properties, and more effort on creating demand (or slowing delivery).
> 
> 
> Whoever said good things come to those who wait, has not ridden the Dubai real estate cycle long enough.


To every single "investor" in Dubai, I highly recommend checking the Emirates Auction results weekly. The market is still falling.

Check the auction results regularly here: Auction Results

Check the listings here: Auction listings this week- Available

We have bought multiple properties via this method. The results are a good indicator of bottom line.

One thing, *"isn't it in Dubai Inc's best interests if rents and prices continue to fall? Isn't a cheaper Dubai best?"* An argument put to me yesterday....


----------



## grapemint

FutureViewDxb said:


> To every single "investor" in Dubai, I highly recommend checking the Emirates Auction results weekly. The market is still falling.
> 
> Check the auction results regularly here: Auction Results
> 
> Check the listings here: Auction listings this week- Available
> 
> We have bought multiple properties via this method. The results are a good indicator of bottom line.
> 
> One thing, *"isn't it in Dubai Inc's best interests if rents and prices continue to fall? Isn't a cheaper Dubai best?"* An argument put to me yesterday....


What's wrong with the properties listed on the auction? Some of them are either rented out for quite cheap or rented out until October 2022, that's for another 4.5 year! Are these properties coming from Dubai Courts in the process of the properties being taken over due to mortgage or any other issues? Can you really get some good deals sometimes?


----------



## grapemint

agod said:


> No, there is no vat on Residential only on Commercial, of course this is the Beginning of he Great Vat Escape as many items will be cash......if you collect VAT then you would need to be Registered, and thats below the Threshold of 350000 I think (It will be a mess)
> 
> Emirates NBD, they have good online services.


Emaar is charging 5% VAT on residential units which are a part of the hotel or serviced apartments.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

*Taking Part in Emirates Auction to buy a property
*


_A quick guide based on experience_


*
Overview*

Buying at auction in Dubai is simple, straight forward and very customer service orientated. Every effort is made to keep you happy, and things fair. When things DO go wrong, it is usually caused by the courts and out of Emirates Auction LLC's control.

The properties are court sanctioned, and are being sold to sell off debts of an indiviual/ company. It is a very valid service for all parties. It is the duty of the courts to get fair value, and ensure the bidding process is clean.

If you win the auction, all past service charge debts or utilities owed on the property (DEWA, Empower etc) will be cleared by the court up until the day that your title deed is produced. 


*Vetting the property*

I highly recommend knocking on the door of a property you are interested in. Friday mornings are usually a good time. Chat with the tenant (if there is one), tell them you are thinking of buying. Ask about their tenancy contract, their intentions and any work they think is needed on the property. They are usually lovely to deal with and very happy to talk. Factor all this in to your bid.

If the property is vacant, then again, do a walk around and factor the refurb costs in from your final bid.

If the property has a tenant and rent is not going to come to you for some time, again factor it in to your bid. Easy and logical stuff here.


*The bidding via Emirates Auction LLC*


Opening an account at Emirates Auction is easy. This can be done online.

You will need to place a minimum 20 percent deposit into your account should you wish to take part in an auction. Sometimes we just leave a large lump sum on account.

If there is a property listed at 1 million dirhams, you will need to have a deposit in your account of at least 200,000 dirham in order to bid. This would give you the right to bid on any property listed at 1 million dirhams and under.

In the actual auction itself, you can bid as high as you like on this deposit.




*Chat with the team at Emirates Auction*

Go up to the auction office in Al Aweer and ask for Ibtissam or the person in charge of property. The office is shown on both Waze and Google maps. Ibtissam is friendly and very helpful.

Barge right up to the front desk and tell them you are interested in property, not cars. This will give you priority. Most of the characters in there are odd looking car dealers. No fear, they are all quite amusing to observe as you wait. Do not be intimidated. 




*The bidding process*

Once you have placed a deposit into your account, you are free to bid online. We normally wait until the last hour before an auction ends to place a bid.

Any bid, that comes in the last 5 minutes of an auction will extend the auction by a few minutes. Remember the courts are looking to get a fair price for the property and to weed out any corruption in the bidding process. This helps.





*Winning the Auction*

Once you have won the auction, you will receive an sms. The property you have won, is then listed in the results section of the online auction website for ten days. 

In this ten days anyone can come in and gazump you/ bid on the property you have won _but_ they must pay a ten percent premium over your winning bid. Again this is to ensure the courts get a fair price for the property. In reality I have never seen a counter bid happen at this stage.





*Beyond ten days*

You will soon receive an email (within the ten day period) with a deadline to pay the balance due on the property you have won. All payments are best done by a managers cheque in the name of Emirates Auction LLC.

Be sure to pay the balance by the due date. 





*One month later*

Approximately a month after your winning bid, you will receive a call that your title deed is ready for collection. 



*NB:*

You must insist at the point you collect the title deed that you are given three letters from the court addressing the developer and utility companies. These letters instruct the third parties to clear all dues up to the date shown on your new title deed.

The letters are in Arabic so have someone check them for you.

The letter for DEWA you will present to DEWA, the letter for the developer, you show to the developer, and so on and so forth. We sometimes experience delays here by the court not Emirates Auction, but in the end we always get the paper work.




*What to expect?*

You can make significant savings buying via auction- we have seen as much as 30 to 40 percent off. Well worth the effort. Furthermore it is a fun process and exciting. 

While we have experienced some 'situations' (remember the court may be being challenged on its judgements), the end result has always been EXCELLENT.




*Contacts*

At Emirates Auction LLC in al Aweer- walk past all dodgy car dealers, go to desk and ask for Ibtissam and Lianel (both lovely to deal with).

The current best number for the team is 0543939613, but it is best to drive up and chat with her before you get started.



*Links*

http://www.emiratesauction.com/en/PropertyDXB/OnlineAuction.aspx


----------



## grapemint

Great info @FutureViewDxb thanks, I wonder why some properties have such a long lease terms in place like until October 2022. Who signs 4-5 year rental contracts these days?


----------



## FutureViewDxb

grapemint said:


> Great info @FutureViewDxb thanks, I wonder why some properties have such a long lease terms in place like until October 2022. Who signs 4-5 year rental contracts these days?


You are describing the exception not the rule. These properties on long leases likely belong to the same owner. Perhaps locked in by a company housing staff.

80 percent of properties we have bought were vacant, the balance running off a normal 12 month tenancy.

In any case factor it all in. It's pretty simple.


----------



## siamu maharaj

You said results are a good indicator of bottom line. Which results though?


----------



## Andy W

Sorry if this is not the right thread but where can I discuss mortgages for expat owners? 

I used to live in Dubai and own an apartment. I have a mortgage with UAB which I have had for several years and still have it now I am back in Europe. I am currently paying 5.19% and the term has finished. This morning UAB told me they can not offer anything to me as an overseas owner except continue at 5.19%. If anyone has any advice I would be happy to hear. Thanks.


----------



## AITU

*Commercial Property*

I own a small office in JLT and rent it out each year for about AED 80K.

Does anyone know the VAT process as a landlord in such a situation?

I believe the tenant is liable to pay the VAT as a company, but as the threshold for myself is below the AED 375K to register, I'm not sure how I incorporate this into the tenancy contract.

If I charge the 5%, how do I remit this to back to the Government?

Any guidance would be appreciated


----------



## agod

AITU said:


> I own a small office in JLT and rent it out each year for about AED 80K.
> 
> Does anyone know the VAT process as a landlord in such a situation?
> 
> I believe the tenant is liable to pay the VAT as a company, but as the threshold for myself is below the AED 375K to register, I'm not sure how I incorporate this into the tenancy contract.
> 
> If I charge the 5%, how do I remit this to back to the Government?
> 
> Any guidance would be appreciated


its all a bit of a mess and anyone you ask is just as confused, and it will get worse.

Firstly, I think you can still Register even if you are below the Threshold, you then will need an Accountant (I don’t think you are allowed to do it) at Enormous Cost to work out your Income against your Outgoings or VAT you have Paid, you could claim on things like Maintenance or New Kitchen you have been charged on, your Accountant will work it out and Submit any Moneys Owed to the Government.
Your Income is 80000 plus vat 4000….84000, your out goings are a General Maintenance, Service Charge, Etc... Etc, 40000 plus vat = 2000 you subtract the in from the out, and your Vat Charge will be 2000.

Secondly, if you are below the Threshold, tell your Tenant not to give you a Vat Invoice, that way you avoid everything, except there is VAT on Commercial Property, so I don’t know how that works..................I have the Same Problems myself down the road.........Alan


----------



## AITU

Thanks Alan for the input. As you say, there is not much clarity to the situation.

If I find answers, I’ll let you know


----------



## Freestyler

I agree supply needs to be controlled, but I think it is too late for that. 

But I don't think it will crash as bad as some investors I spoke to were expecting after 2020. 

There are sellers who want to sell before the 2020 to get better price and there are buyers who want better value and waiting for 2020 to pass. If prices doesn't fall much after 2020, lets say an year, imo these buyers waiting for bargain will start to come in.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

I was speaking with someone (a real live human) who bought a villa in Dubai in 2014 for 7 million AED. It was his family's dream home.

He is now being offered 3million on it today and is in a desperate situation. He has to go home, but he had sold the family house in Europe and bought into Dubai. 

He is in fact in a worse situation than the above as he did equity release on the Villa in Dubai and bought some apartments. 

He can rent out, but rents have halved and no longer cover his mortgage repayments. 

So he invested in Dubai, believed in Dubai, and is leaving ruined basically.

His fault.

But it made me think about the amount of individuals who quietly leave in the same way. The individuals who are just buying into the dream. Not the tougher investors who can hack it (I put myself into this latter category).

And while I don't see anyone responsible for the above- Dubai has to keep building and the laws of supply and demand are at play- I do see a need to focus much more on the investor. 

Trust is a premium product and without it you can promise yields of 150 per cent and get nothing. Trust is a premium product.

Right now the only people who are consistently gaining from the status quo are utility companies and those collecting the 'in-house' audited service charges.

Look after the investor.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

FutureViewDxb said:


> Bloomberg article out yesterday says 2019 is going to see record oversupply....
> 
> "About 31,500 homes will probably be completed in 2019, more than twice the city’s average annual demand over the last five years"......."Plumb said he doesn’t expect the market to hit bottom until 2021" source


Up to this date (based on auction sale price data and anecdotal) we see prices have fallen between 35-45 percent from their 2014 peaks. This is in apartments and Villas.

Is worse to come with further supply?

On the demand side we have heard that Chinese buyers are indeed coming into the market, I didn't believe it at first, but they are being funnelled straight into Emaar off plan purchases, not the open market.

This is a free market (kind of) so with little you can do, the things I'd like to see:

Ultra low interest rates on lending, I mean ultra low- this will allow the build of Dubai to push on uninhibited. 

Long interest only 'buy to let' mortgages, this will allow investors to take lower rents as the market continues to soften. 

Encouragement of the 'pioneer' investor, who in the face of an increasingly volatile market is putting their faith in Dubai. The landlord is taking on this role. Positive press, not the general disdain.

A continued focus on trust. Trust is a premium product that investors are willing to pay for. Look at the appallingly low yield of US treasury bonds. Investors take it because they have trust.

So a continued focus on gaining INVESTOR trust. It is easy to play 'robin hood' and continuously side with the tenant for example. it is the populist move. 

Also, I have suggested this before... go to reddit's Dubai community and ask if anyone there would buy property. All will say no. There are trust issues amongst the working/ middle class that can easily be fixed.

Finally despite the painful market today for investors Dubai is turning into a great product. We end most of our chats with this side note. Infrastructure is stunning and lifestyle is excellent.

The continued push on to better Dubai requires criticism and discussion.


----------



## noir-dresses

Maybe if they focused as much on existing/loyal investors, and their deteriorating rental, and real estate values as much as they do fishing for new ones things could, and might be brighter, but their not. New projects will be launched, ten's of thousands of units handed over already in a depressed market.

One thing is building for a better future, another is screwing up your future.

This is the point in the market where the water has slowly disappeared into the ocean before the killer tsunami waves come crashing in. The perfect storm is brewing.

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/new...-target-countries-for-real-estate-investments


----------



## FutureViewDxb

noir-dresses said:


> Maybe if they focused as much on existing/loyal investors, and their deteriorating rental, and real estate values as much as they do fishing for new ones things could, and might be brighter, but their not. New projects will be launched, ten's of thousands of units handed over already in a depressed market.
> 
> One thing is building for a better future, another is screwing up your future.
> 
> This is the point in the market where the water has slowly disappeared into the ocean before the killer tsunami waves come crashing in. The perfect storm is brewing.
> 
> https://www.arabianbusiness.com/new...-target-countries-for-real-estate-investments



Ok so, to try and keep this constructive, you see that the market is going to fall much further with the looming supply, and worse is yet to come.

I agree FWIW, but what can they do about it? Imagine you are in charge of it all- what would any of you do today?



Also one question>> If Dubai stops building today loads of consumers/tenants (related to the construction industry) will leave, causing even more decline so they have to keep building- is this correct?


----------



## noir-dresses

FutureViewDxb said:


> Ok so, to try and keep this constructive, you see that the market is going to fall much further with the looming supply, and worse is yet to come.
> 
> I agree FWIW, but what can they do about it? Imagine you are in charge of it all- what would any of you do today?
> 
> 
> 
> Also one question>> If Dubai stops building today loads of consumers/tenants (related to the construction industry) will leave, causing even more decline so they have to keep building- is this correct?


The context of my Tsunami quote was a tidal wave of new, much much more EXPO oriented units will be completed, and handed over very soon in an already depressed market environment. This is for sure, and this we know.

When all those completed units hit the market it'll be the perfect storm in an investors point of view. It will take a long time for the market to obsorb, adjust, and pick up again. This can be expected which is fact.

Instead of speculating let's rather discuss what's happening at the moment in real time, and that prices are dropping be that rentals, or real estate values.

It's not my, nor your job to figure out how to fix the problem. It's the people in charge who's job it is to figure that out so why would we tire ourselves with that. 

At an investors point of view it's simple right now. Either your happy, or not happy with the current market. Either you'll invest even more, hold on, or off load considering the current market. There really is no other options, or state of thought, that simple.

As an investor the bottom line for me is profit, I don't get myself distracted anymore, and awed looking up at skyscrapers until the financial numbers are right/perfect first.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

^^

In one country (a small island) where I lived, a brand new supermarket chain was set up that undercut the three established rival supermarkets. It took market share very quickly. 

EVERYONE was talking about their amazingly low prices!

In fact this new supermarket had negotiated extra extra long credit terms with it's suppliers.

The three established supermarket chains quickly went bust, as they already operated on very tight margins and needed volume.

Then, finally, after destroying the competition, once the extra-long extended credit terms were up, the newcomer supermarket went bust too. 

The new supermarket had been selling below its' buying costs, and because of the extended credit terms it was given nobody saw what was happening until the entire market had been wiped out. 

The owner of the new supermarket ran away of course.


----------



## noir-dresses

If they could of they already would of found a way to fix the real estate market.

Just a few weeks ago the CEO of DAMAC was saying at Davos he's interested in buying over a billion USD worth of property in London's A zone. Now if the price's are low, and some are saying its a good time to invest in Dubai why is he investing in London???


----------



## UAE Investor

noir-dresses said:


> If they could of they already would of found a way to fix the real estate market.
> 
> Just a few weeks ago the CEO of DAMAC was saying at Davos he's interested in buying over a billion USD worth of property in London's A zone. Now if the price's are low, and some are saying its a good time to invest in Dubai why is he investing in London???


They are fixing it!

Property too expensive !!

:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

UAE Investor said:


> They are fixing it!
> 
> Property too expensive !!
> 
> :cheers:


Well the up side is you can most likely get some good deals if your buying, and for renters it's paradise.


----------



## UAE Investor

noir-dresses said:


> Well the up side is you can most likely get some good deals if your buying, and for renters it's paradise.


I reacon i can get a 2 bed in CRW sports city for 800k,but they are dark and interiors are shite !

:cheers:


----------



## FutureViewDxb

*How the press turns on the investor*

I had seen an article earlier in the Gulf News (or National) last month that implied a burnt investor eating out at a fancy, beachside restaurant wasn't in a position to complain about the property market, and most certainly didn't deserve any sympathy... and I thought wtf.

:bash:

Today there is an article in Arabian Business and it does the same thing-click here to read it.


It is subtle but basically writes off the market meltdown, it implies investors burnt are just short term, opportunistic flippers anyway, and that really all is well. 

*1. Correction not a crash*

Now, we have literally seen prices halve since 2014.... and the article states: 

"Nobody can deny that prices are falling – but a correction is a long way from a crash."

I'd like a crash defined. 

*2. Only nasty, opportunistic flippers are complaining so who cares?*

Furthermore, literally no one I have met since the crash of 2008 has been looking to flip, no one has been a short term investor, yet the article implies that's what we all are.

Opening with an obvious..."measures taken...make it harder for flippers...can only be a good thing." And then on to..."The days of investing in property in the hope of doubling your money in two years are long gone." You can see the article tries to paint a picture where the market crash is only taking out the bad and greedy opportunistic investor.

To begin with look back on this forum alone, you can see EVERYONE since 2011 has been buying either as a home, for yield, and/or modest appreciation.

What flippers needed wiping out? It is genuine investors, landlords, home makers being hit.


*3. Tricks*

Conveniently the article only talks about price drops since the end of 2017, this allows it to show modest decreases in prices.

The article only mentions the CORE report to justify the recent price drops in a positive light.

But the article OMITS CORE's key shocker fact that 2019 will see the market receive record supply of ALL TIME in property....

Yuck.... Best thing we can be doing is discussing the market, working out what it is, and what it needs- even if that means lower rents and prices. Not taking out the investor ffs.


----------



## noir-dresses

We're witnessing a Dubai market where no price is too low with Wilbur and Orville style shenanigans.

Must agree I can't stand UAE sock puppet real estate agents either, they are just basically full of it.

I wrote off a property this year over there I paid 35% worth ten years ago which stalled/stopped building, and the developer wouldn't return my funds. They re started work on the building about two years ago with a new payment plan agreement which I obviously refused to sign. Then they threatened to quash my original agreement because I refused to pay, and sign anything. After some research I realised if I were to trust, and pay off the remaining 65% of the apartment it still wouldn't be worth/valued half the funds I would of paid if it were completed. That's not to mention the possibility of the building never being completed, and me never trusting them again. May the not so credible developer enjoy my hard earned money I worked hard for, and which they cheated me with their horrible work ethics. 

Positive side is my Toronto properties have tripled in value, and my European properties have doubled in value.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

*Expand the mortgage market dramatically*

Regarding all of the above, this is why I say we need to be talking about solutions. 
*
Dubai has to keep building*

we all want Dubai to develop further, we don't want it to stop, so based on that premise- what can be done? 

Prices and rents have nearly halved in a 5 year period in Dubai, it is CODE RED & it is now time to smash the mortgage market up COMPLETELY to help soften the damage and provide continuity.

*What we need*

We need long, interest only terms, much much longer loan periods, ultra low lending rates. All these bring down the monthly loan repayments by half (or more). In one shot you have just helped the investors caught out today.


We need to bring in buy-to-let mortgage products that factor rents as cover, that allow people like me to expand to 1000 properties (currently limited to 3 mortgages), & ffs please PLEASE support the investor even when things go South. 

We can definitely get through this.

*Remember Dubai has to keep building.*

Make it so cheap to borrow in the UAE that it is the ABSOLUTE LOGICAL step for every single tenant to buy a property in the UAE. As they do buy, more will follow. Good stories will echo around the world of the property market here.

If rents cover mortgage payments - banks are covered even if a landlord loses their job.

When you look at what the developers are doing with their 100 year payment plans, they are trying to deliver this environment in a very poor mortgage market.

Why doesn't the UAE get it? It works, it can sustain and grow the market in a major way. Forego higher bank margins today for a booming UAE tomorrow.

*Look around the globe*

Study 'buy to let' products across the world, 'interest only' is big and can be managed, it can allow investors to expand in this environment of low capital values and utlra low rents.

In London, with the buy to let products there, even on very low rents, capital values stay high and investors still buy- why?

Because interest only mortgages for the entire term of a loan can mean double digit net yields, on an investor's cash deposit- feel free to ask me how!?

Yes, it relies on capital values going up eventually, but over a 30 year period. Right now what is killing everyone is short termism and it is not at the investor level!


*Finally*

In any situation, in any country where property values have halved (or come close to half) in a 5 year period, people need help. Sort the mortgage market!

Now couple all this with the continuous push to create demand for property (Chinese or otherwise  ...), and we may end up creating an environment that can grow in all senses for a 50 year term.


----------



## noir-dresses

What good are better mortgage rates to an investor if a building doesn't get completed?

Your stuck with paying the bank even if a building is stalled, or cancelled with no keys to a potential property. You can't even live in it, rent it, not sell your investment/liability.

If your a cash buyer your still not sure if the property market has bottomed out yet if your interested in buying a ready completed unit.

Regarding Chinese I'm sure they have much better places to invest.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

noir-dresses said:


> What good are better mortgage rates to an investor if a building doesn't get completed?
> 
> ...


If borrowing costs halve and mortgages becoming much easier to come by, that stalled project may very well come back to life and be completed...demand will increase.

We need to create an evironment where a Middle class Indian can step off a plane in Dubai, take out a buy-to let mortgage on a 10-20% deposit. 

Where a combination of interest only & low rate mortgage means rents easily cover the monthly obligation.

Banks need to be ok that the capital of the mortgage is repaid in 30 years time by selling the property.


It really works, explode the mortgage market, ultra low rates, extra long loan terms 30+ years, interest only for entire term, and Dubai will thrive.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

Just to be clear:



*In the UAE*

To borrow 1 million Aed, based on rental income, my ENBD mortgage costs me AED7,700 per month. 

*In Europe*

To borrow the equivalent of 1 million AED, based on rental income, my HSBC mortgage in Europe costs me AED 2,666 per month

*In the UK*

To borrow the equivalent of 1 million AED, based on rental income, my HSBC mortgage in UK costs me AED 1950 per month

______

*Notes:*

In all cases I have 30-50% deposits on the properties. In the UK & EU, on these highish deposits, banks are happy to run interest only. In the ENBD case they have limited my loan to 15 years, I am late 30's and it is capital repayment. 

There is a huge opportunity here for the UAE.

If I could get lower borrowing costs, of course I'd be upsizing my current property in Dubai, expanding my investment portfolio, I'd be able to accept lower rents and STILL meet my obligations to ENBD.

This is THE WAY to keep Dubai building and to develop the market into end users and the right sort of investor. Do it.


----------



## UAE Investor

FutureViewDxb said:


> If borrowing costs halve and mortgages becoming much easier to come by, that stalled project may very well come back to life and be completed...demand will increase.
> 
> We need to create an evironment where a Middle class Indian can step off a plane in Dubai, take out a buy-to let mortgage on a 10-20% deposit.
> 
> Where a combination of interest only & low rate mortgage means rents easily cover the monthly obligation.
> 
> Banks need to be ok that the capital of the mortgage is repaid in 30 years time by selling the property.
> 
> 
> It really works, explode the mortgage market, ultra low rates, extra long loan terms 30+ years, interest only for entire term, and Dubai will thrive.


Banks won,t want to expose them selves to such small deposits as 10% ?

:cheers:


----------



## FutureViewDxb

UAE Investor said:


> Banks won,t want to expose them selves to such small deposits as 10% ?
> 
> :cheers:


The real issue is the monthly costs of borrowing, not whether it's a 10% deposit or a 30% deposit, though the lower the better obviously.

Nor do I see any issue AT ALL with the 4% transfer fee. This is developers and speculators confusing the issue.

Your target are millions of middle class Indians/Chinese/emerging economy types. They need to be able to get off a plane, put down their deposit and borrow based on rents. They need to be offered interest only and long term mortgage products making borrowing so cheap that rents easily cover the monthlies.

UAE/ Dubai needs to make it possible to borrow so cheap that costs are way below rent, that it is completely logical to buy vs rent. 

Once borrowers are into the market they are committed to the UAE in a completely different way. They will pick up the trash on the road outside for example, they will worry about the public space around their property. It is all GOOD.

So do you just sit there and let the banks cream it short term at the expense of everything else, or do you do what's best for the UAE long term?

Once you create this environment, put some planning into deliveries (a free for all is not working) and do the hard work on increasing demand- the UAE can win.

This is a huge opportunity. 

Look at us....We are locked in here with just 3 mortgages (so 47 of our properties are cash paid) and on those 3 mortgages the borrowing costs are 3 times more expensive than UK or Europe. Yet we have (I'd guess) 60% deposits down on the three mortgaged properties.

We are impotent. handicapped here. Cannot expand. We would be a better landlord with 150 properties, economies of scale.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

There is something else about delivering ultra low borrowing costs to the UAE that is beneficial. When you do, you *weaponise buyers* (buyers like me and you) and put us in a position to compete.

Give me lower borrowing costs and I'll be competing for that villa on the palm that right now is only available to money launderers and king pins.


Weaponise the buyer and do it now- pre 2020.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

Freestyler said:


> Buyers don't come in falling market, they come in rising market or better expectations. There will be more buyers if investors see better fundamentals both (home and abroad).
> 
> Current Chinese buyers are unique, they are diversifying their property investments and hence at the moment they are buying even though market prices are slipping.


Very true. We have seen when the market turns there can be a frenzy.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

*Question 1:*

On the supply side.....Do you think it is, at all, irresponsible to be marketing to investors, encouraging them to make large, potentially, lifetime commitments, knowing that their investment will be undermined by a 'free for all' build policy? by supply they may not be aware of? Do you think there should be any form of 'responsible management' in a social sense?


*Question 2: *

Food for thought.....If a country (anywhere in the world) was run by developers with a vested interest in building, what would their build policy look like? what would be their view on restricted development, limiting land, managing supply?


*Question 3.*

Why off plan? who benefits?.....Why are the Chinese buying off-plan only, at a higher rate than the equivalent property in the market today?


----------



## UAE Investor

FutureViewDxb said:


> *Question 1:*
> 
> On the supply side.....Do you think it is, at all, irresponsible to be marketing to investors, encouraging them to make large, potentially, lifetime commitments, knowing that their investment will be undermined by a 'free for all' build policy? by supply they may not be aware of? Do you think there should be any form of 'responsible management' in a social sense?
> 
> 
> *Question 2: *
> 
> Food for thought.....If a country (anywhere in the world) was run by developers with a vested interest in building, what would their build policy look like? what would be their view on restricted development, limiting land, managing supply?
> 
> 
> *Question 3.*
> 
> Why off plan? who benefits?.....Why are the Chinese buying off-plan only, at a higher rate than the equivalent property in the market today?


3rd question...off plan is far cheaper, where can you get a complete 2/3 bed villa for1.1 mill in an established area?

Alot of land in Dubai owned by overseas who have permission to build, in other words Dubai does not have the power to control its land source.


As i have allways said there is a big downside to large rental pools of property anywhere in the world, but landlords must keep investing to keep the game going!

So keep buying and don,t look back??


:cheers:


----------



## FutureViewDxb

UAE Investor said:


> 3rd question...off plan is far cheaper, where can you get a complete 2/3 bed villa for1.1 mill in an established area?
> 
> Alot of land in Dubai owned by overseas who have permission to build, in other words Dubai does not have the power to control its land source.
> 
> 
> As i have allways said there is a big downside to large rental pools of property anywhere in the world, but landlords must keep investing to keep the game going!
> 
> So keep buying and don,t look back??
> 
> 
> :cheers:


Great stuff, thanks freestyler. 

With this whole exercise I'm beginning to think I see patterns.

Off-plan sales are necessary to keep property developers alive. 

The recent report, quoted some way above, has pointed out that the market direction now, largely depends on government related developers, whether they continue to build or hold back. It mentions many private developers have been knocked out already.

So what incentives does the govt developer have to hold back?


----------



## FutureViewDxb

UAE Investor said:


> 3rd question...off plan is far cheaper, where can you get a complete 2/3 bed villa for1.1 mill in an established area?
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:


Incidentally we are being offered ready 2 bed Emaar Springs villas for 1.1m, and believe universally that the completed market is cheaper, once you factor in location.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

Ok so.....

Dubai Govt is effectively a developer, Dubai needs to keep developing to keep the economy turning over.

Developers do not make money in the secondary market. The only reason a developer may care about what happens in the secondary market is how it affects their off plan sale prices, land bank values etc.

For now a limited mortgage market, limits 'completed property' sales (impacting the investor). This poor mortgage market also paves the way for fresh investors to choose off plan sales, with easy payment plans. These off plan sales divert new buyers to the developer.

The turning point will only come when the developer cannot compete with the collapsed prices of completed property, and no payment plan they offer masks the reality. 

No developer is going to _altruistically_ stop building because it is devaluing property it has already sold. We have to deal with that fact.

My take is that Dubai/UAE has to keep developing, but has to manage supply pipelines as dynamically as is possible (no easy task). Market stability, is a place where banks can operate from, investors can see modest safety and the narrative can turn to a positive experience.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

*From Forbes yesterday:*

Multi-Billion Dollar Debt Crisis Looms For Dubai


Loans made (by Abu Dhabi) to Dubai are coming due...and on top of this...there is still another lingering bill which totals approximately half the value of Dubai's entire economy.......unless something changes to help Dubai's economy, the debt problems could sink the city...

*From Emaar on the same day:*

Dubai’s Emaar launches new Arabian Ranches

Featuring three and four bedroom townhouses, Arabian Ranches III will also have a central park spanning an area of over 30,000 square metres, a 4km long boulevard, a lazy river and community parks with play areas for children.


*And from Ratings agency S & P in the same week:*


Ratings agency warns that expected decline in real estate values could steepen if more new supply is released

Speaking at a media roundtable at S&P Global's Dubai office on Tuesday, Sapna Jagtiani, an associate in the firm's corporate ratings division, said: “On the real estate side, we continue to have a very grim view of the market.....one of the main reasons why .....
would be if “government-related entities and royal family-related developers do not rein in supply”.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

FutureViewDxb said:


> *From Forbes yesterday:*
> 
> Multi-Billion Dollar Debt Crisis Looms For Dubai
> 
> 
> Loans made (by Abu Dhabi) to Dubai are coming due...and on top of this...there is still another lingering bill which totals approximately half the value of Dubai's entire economy.......unless something changes to help Dubai's economy, the debt problems could sink the city...
> 
> *From Emaar on the same day:*
> 
> Dubai’s Emaar launches new Arabian Ranches
> 
> Featuring three and four bedroom townhouses, Arabian Ranches III will also have a central park spanning an area of over 30,000 square metres, a 4km long boulevard, a lazy river and community parks with play areas for children.
> 
> 
> *And from Ratings agency S & P in the same week:*
> 
> 
> Ratings agency warns that expected decline in real estate values could steepen if more new supply is released
> 
> Speaking at a media roundtable at S&P Global's Dubai office on Tuesday, Sapna Jagtiani, an associate in the firm's corporate ratings division, said: “On the real estate side, we continue to have a very grim view of the market.....one of the main reasons why .....
> would be if “government-related entities and royal family-related developers do not rein in supply”.


When the market is bad, and the 'powers that be' are struggling here they renegotiate debts, agree interest only terms, and extend repaying principle for a number of years. 

Please do the same for the investors on the ground. Make the mortgage market much more accessible, diverse and lower the cost of borrowing. 

Not asking for a strategy change, but at least get first world borrowing into the mix and give us a soft-ish landing. 

Stricter rules mean a lot of the naughty cash buyers who could buy expensive properties are no longer able to operate in Dubai, but this means you need to empower normal buyers - focus on the mortgage market, make it diverse and cheap to borrow. 

Dubai you can beat this. All active tenants can service a mortgage, and they are already here.


----------



## jack10

Hi Guys I am new in this forum for investors but I think 2 years that I am following skyscraper.
you are great guys, and nice to share experienced and ideas.
I want to share my ideas .
- Situation very complicated
- I expect price down more 10% and reach bottom summer time (remember this year Ramadan comes yearly) after something MUST happen
Every where in the world OFF plan is cheaper than ready (which make sense ) here now NO also because usually now includes payment plan
CASH is still the KING
Question : since 2015 who is making money in real Estate in Dubai ? Investors NO, some agents yes a lot..(without risky ) but also many left.
Emaar is killing the market now which is not good.
The funny thing is that maybe I am expert but I am losing money, an idiot can arrive this summer and make the perfect deal (TIMING is too much important)
DEWA and Empower always WIN.(and Service charge expensive)
honestly now better to do nothing but still to be ready..


----------



## grapemint

_"UAE is world’s second best place to invest in property"
_https://www.timeoutdubai.com/news/398117-uae-is-worlds-second-best-place-to-invest-in-property


----------



## noir-dresses

Good to see the walls are not closing in, and the wheels are'nt coming off the bus.

Keep us updated how the advice from that article works out for you please.


----------



## Impy

*OFF PLAN SALES RISE IN FEBRUARY*

https://gulfnews.com/business/prope...make-a-strong-comeback-in-february-1.62375940


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

Non-Euclidean said:


> Lol their source is a webpage that lists properties. Hmm.


Paradoxically, the more the market is worsening, the more the realtors will try to convince people that now is the time to buy. Because they know the unsold property they sit on will be worth less and less as time goes by, so they need to turn it into cash quickly.


----------



## noir-dresses

That article is grasping at straws,

drum roll........to the ordinary chap it comes across great, and even eye candy when looking at all these renders, marketing ploys, and finished units being endlessly handed over, and over again. 

the down side to this are the actual investers who were not invited to this dance of sparkling ponies.

to sum it up its a developer, and tenants paradise, and an investors nightmare.


----------



## city of the future

Wouldn't trust anything from GN, and yet here, the opposite is stated:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonc...lar-debt-crisis-looms-for-dubai/#68e61c137ab1


----------



## FutureViewDxb

*Press Releases Versus Actually Doing Something*

Press coming out now trying to encourage sellers in the completed market to offer payment plans to match off plan sales.... oh dear Lord, who is driving the ship?! see the gulfnews here

*Dubai Needs to keep developing ok*

There are some facts we have to accept re Dubai, and one major fact is that Dubai inc is basically a developer- so that ain't stopping.

In that context please Dubai, (please x 1000), offer us (the investors committed to the roadmap) dynamic mortgages and record low lending. We can soften the landing, accept lower yields and still continue to expand with some help.

*We need first world Mortgage Products*

I have shown you how incredibly expensive it can be to borrow here and, that it's not just about lower interest rates. Longer mortgage terms, and interest only periods are very effective in lowering monthly costs. 

In fact, we can see developers are desperately trying to mimick these 1st world mortgage products, in the off plan market, to try and get sales.

But without fundamentally doing something different, eventually, this will just add more investors who are in negative equity to the mix.

*The cash buyers are gone*

I believe that the clean up of naughty money launderers (a good thing) has knocked the type of cash buyer out, who could swoop in and pick up a 15 million dirham villa, without a mortgage product.

*Empower the tenant to buy*

Again, a big chunk of your buyers are already here, in Dubai, please weaponise them. 

All paying tenants are capable of servicing a mortgage- ALL OF THEM. Job security is a threat the world over.
*
For the greater good*

A property owner, is house proud, and will make a much deeper commitment to the good of the UAE.


*Note:* all of the above has to be combined with a more measured and dynamic approach to the delivery of future units into the market. For the 40,000+deliveries on their way this year, what's done is done- we can only hope to soften the landing somewhat. Night becomes day etc etc* but* things do actually need to happen versus a barage of poor press releases.


----------



## noir-dresses

I think it's pretty clear to everyone sadly what the problem is. What I'm seeing and noticing actually is a fundamental processing disorder in forward thinking, and planning strategy.

How is it not clear whats needed to work out all the kinks because the conundrums are clearly bruised, and broken???


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai Municipality says it approved nearly 50,000 building permits in 2018, while 6,043 buildings were completed last year

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/con...construction-of-dubai-continued-apace-in-2018

The orgy of excess construction continues, or something like that dangling infront of our eyes.


----------



## UAE Investor

Surely can,t you landlords make this work with delayed payments etc?


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

noir-dresses said:


> Dubai Municipality says it approved nearly 50,000 building permits in 2018, while 6,043 buildings were completed last year
> 
> https://www.arabianbusiness.com/con...construction-of-dubai-continued-apace-in-2018
> 
> The orgy of excess construction continues, or something like that dangling infront of our eyes.



How do those numbers add up? Does only one in every eight permits result in a finished building, do you need several permits for the same building, or was there a real slump in the construction sector when those 6,043 building permits were given? There seems to be a gigantic disparity between the numbers of started projects and finished ones.


----------



## noir-dresses

Kyll.Ing. said:


> How do those numbers add up? Does only one in every eight permits result in a finished building, do you need several permits for the same building, or was there a real slump in the construction sector when those 6,043 building permits were given? There seems to be a gigantic disparity between the numbers of started projects and finished ones.


if true they're flaunting even more potential building which could be suffocating, and even terrifying regarding the drop in market value.

Some of these Gonzo journalists dont fact check the substance of what they're writing, but if true it's like giving a diabetic even more cake.

Regarding building permits even I am not sure what that means because one permit could be a whole building, or just one villa.

The good is we're very aware of whats happening, the bad is 47,000 more units are expected to be handed over just this year alone, and the ugly is if this does'nt get regulated on time properly market values can seriously go into melt down.


----------



## noir-dresses

In a bid to attract tenants, landlords in Dubai are becoming more flexible with prices and even offering rent-free periods, payment terms and other incentives, according to a local property website.

The ‘Property Finder Trends’ report said landlords who are still paying off mortgages cannot afford their properties lying vacant for too long amid increasing market supply and have been lowering rents as a result, and allowing tenants to increase the number of cheques. They also offering rent-free periods and in some instances include white goods to woo tenants.

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/pro...-becoming-more-flexible-with-rent-says-report

This is a great time to be a tenant with rents decreasing.


----------



## UAE Investor

noir-dresses said:


> In a bid to attract tenants, landlords in Dubai are becoming more flexible with prices and even offering rent-free periods, payment terms and other incentives, according to a local property website.
> 
> The ‘Property Finder Trends’ report said landlords who are still paying off mortgages cannot afford their properties lying vacant for too long amid increasing market supply and have been lowering rents as a result, and allowing tenants to increase the number of cheques. They also offering rent-free periods and in some instances include white goods to woo tenants.
> 
> https://www.arabianbusiness.com/pro...-becoming-more-flexible-with-rent-says-report
> 
> This is a great time to be a tenant with rents decreasing.


If i was a tenant i,d rather go with a new apartment with more modern fixtures 

:cheers:


----------



## siamu maharaj

If I have an apartment there, can I open a bank account in Dubai simply on the basis of owning a property there?


----------



## grapemint

siamu maharaj said:


> If I have an apartment there, can I open a bank account in Dubai simply on the basis of owning a property there?


You can open a bank account in Dubai as a non resident without even having a property there.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

FutureViewDxb said:


> *From Forbes yesterday:*
> 
> Multi-Billion Dollar Debt Crisis Looms For Dubai
> 
> 
> Loans made (by Abu Dhabi) to Dubai are coming due...and on top of this...there is still another lingering bill which totals approximately half the value of Dubai's entire economy.......unless something changes to help Dubai's economy, the debt problems could sink the city...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *And from Ratings agency S & P in the same week:*
> 
> 
> Ratings agency warns that expected decline in real estate values could steepen if more new supply is released
> 
> Speaking at a media roundtable at S&P Global's Dubai office on Tuesday, Sapna Jagtiani, an associate in the firm's corporate ratings division, said: “On the real estate side, we continue to have a very grim view of the market.....one of the main reasons why .....
> would be if “government-related entities and royal family-related developers do not rein in supply”.



From Bloomberg >>>

"the Middle East’s financial hub still hasn’t reported how its gross domestic product performed since 2017......although Dubai published quarterly GDP data as recently as mid-2018, the page for national accounts on the website of its statistics center now only lists full-year readings up to 2017. Some of the figures it provides, including foreign direct investment and construction activity, also haven’t been updated for two years."


When we personally invest in start ups, it's normally the information they are *NOT *giving us that's the info we really need. I think Dubai/ UAE can beat the status quo with fundamental changes. The barage of 'pump the market' press releases, and RE "professionals" telling us to look the other way are so bad- I'm sure they do more harm than good. What do I know though.


----------



## noir-dresses

FutureViewDxb said:


> From Bloomberg >>> Link>>>
> 
> "the Middle East’s financial hub still hasn’t reported how its gross domestic product performed since 2017.......The reasons for the dearth of data aren’t clear."
> 
> ______________
> 
> "No one at the emirate’s statistics center and its media office responded to requests for comment...Although Dubai published quarterly GDP data as recently as mid-2018, the page for national accounts on the website of its statistics center now only lists full-year readings up to 2017. Some of the figures it provides, including foreign direct investment and construction activity, also haven’t been updated for two years."


U.A.E. Private Companies Cut Jobs at Fastest Pace in a Decade


A leading Dubai bank warned on Tuesday that non-oil companies across the United Arab Emirates have cut staff at their sharpest rate in nearly a decade amid an economic slowdown.

A report by Emirates NBD, which is majority owned by Dubai's government, said it relied on data from some 400 private sector companies outside of the UAE's oil economy, including the nation's manufacturing, services, construction and retail sectors.

The report's findings point to an economic slowdown that many UAE residents have already felt, with the rising cost of living outpacing salary increases and foreign workers quietly complaining about salaries that are weeks and sometimes even months late.

The UAE, which is home to the oil-rich emirate of Abu Dhabi and the financial hub of Dubai, has weathered the shocks of a steep drop in oil prices that hit oil exporting countries in mid-2014. In response, the UAE rolled out a number of austerity measures, including lifting some subsidies on energy and implementing a 5 percent tax on most goods and services.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...imevuk0ljq88fOWuJRPOK_WFDOKB_tHQlWtL7mc73M5OY

This kind of answers your question from bloomberg a few days ago, and these are statistics from Emirates NBD Bank.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

noir-dresses said:


> U.A.E. Private Companies Cut Jobs at Fastest Pace in a Decade
> 
> 
> A leading Dubai bank warned on Tuesday that non-oil companies across the United Arab Emirates have cut staff at their sharpest rate in nearly a decade amid an economic slowdown.
> 
> A report by Emirates NBD, which is majority owned by Dubai's government, said it relied on data from some 400 private sector companies outside of the UAE's oil economy, including the nation's manufacturing, services, construction and retail sectors.
> 
> The report's findings point to an economic slowdown that many UAE residents have already felt, with the rising cost of living outpacing salary increases and foreign workers quietly complaining about salaries that are weeks and sometimes even months late.
> 
> The UAE, which is home to the oil-rich emirate of Abu Dhabi and the financial hub of Dubai, has weathered the shocks of a steep drop in oil prices that hit oil exporting countries in mid-2014. In response, the UAE rolled out a number of austerity measures, including lifting some subsidies on energy and implementing a 5 percent tax on most goods and services.
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...imevuk0ljq88fOWuJRPOK_WFDOKB_tHQlWtL7mc73M5OY
> 
> This kind of answers your question from bloomberg a few days ago, and these are statistics from Emirates NBD Bank.


It's positive to get the real picture out there surely? cheers for that.

I genuinely don't understand why the poor 'PUMP DUBAI' press releases are allowed? I mean, are we meant to celebrate a bunch of Chinese investors, being shuttled in to the off plan market, unaware they are going to end up underwater with the rest of us?

Fundamental changes are needed now: we need to find out why a higher percentage of tenants don't buy, we need to make a compelling case that they should, we need to lower borrowing costs, we need to time deliveries as dynamically as possible, we need to adjust to demand and sincerely make residency in the UAE desirable. 

Engage residents. There's more work to do, no more crap press, it's all to a better future.


----------



## noir-dresses

I've already said it's Gonzo journalism with pump and dump head lines that have nothing to do with the reality on the ground. That can only work so long until it's time to pay the piper.

It's come to the point if it's not fake news, they are making an effort to at least make it acceptable fake news to the general public.

Come to think of it it's not even news, nor valid opinions when journalists are not allowed to do their job, instead their told what to write, and what not to write. In reality the journalists are just mouth peices trying to make us beileve everything is a simple straight line.

I've been looking at the threads statistics, and noticed a few thousand views per post. What amazes me this is by far the most active, seen, and read thread on the whole UAE platform. It's viewed the most by far, but next to no participation is taking place which makes me wonder why?


----------



## Freestyler

> It's viewed the most by far, but next to no participation is taking place which makes me wonder why?


Probably because views are aggregate that are going back years. Most forums have died since facebook and twitter gained popularity. There is still some activity here.


----------



## siamu maharaj

FutureViewDxb said:


> It's positive to get the real picture out there surely? cheers for that.
> 
> I genuinely don't understand why the poor 'PUMP DUBAI' press releases are allowed? I mean, are we meant to celebrate a bunch of Chinese investors, being shuttled in to the off plan market, unaware they are going to end up underwater with the rest of us?
> 
> Fundamental changes are needed now: we need to find out why a higher percentage of tenants don't buy, we need to make a compelling case that they should, we need to lower borrowing costs, we need to time deliveries as dynamically as possible, we need to adjust to demand and sincerely make residency in the UAE desirable.
> 
> Engage residents. There's more work to do, no more crap press, it's all to a better future.


If the economy's in the gutter, not many would be interested in buying more real estate regardless of how easy it is.


----------



## noir-dresses

Freestyler said:


> Probably because views are aggregate that are going back years. Most forums have died since facebook and twitter gained popularity. There is still some activity here.


I understand a lot of high viewed threads have died down, and their not as active as they were before due to many different reasons. Some new threads are more active now obviously because of active construction going on, or let's say constant news like aviation. Yes social media has taken a big chank of activity, not to mention twitter, whats app, etc, etc.

But regarding the property thread like I mentioned once a new post is posted you will notice a few thousand views in a 72 hour time frame which is interesting. Even if the thread is quiet, the numbers keep rising regarding views like no other thread as long as something was posted in the time frame of a week or two. That's why it's interesting that the property thread gets a high volume of views, but we have very little perticipation/comments on it, and I wonder why that is? Yes we might have positive, or negative news, data, information, views, and opinions, but next to no open discussion.

Anyway these are the top ten viewed threads on the UAE platform if anyone is interested to know,

1- Property, and Investment - 4,400,xxx views
2- The Torch/Marina - 2,390,xxx views
3- Dubai Marina - 2,208,xxx views
4- Palm Jumeirah - 1,934,xxx views
5- Burj Khalifa - 1,654,xxx views
6- Dubai Metro - 1,601,xxx views
7- JLT - 1,408,xxx views
8- UAE Aviation - 1,353,xxx views
9- Downtown Dubai - 1,247,xxx views
10- Gossip and Proposals - 1,018,xxx views


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

I posted this in another thread, but I think it's more on-topic here. It all started with this article from the City Walk thread: https://gulfnews.com/business/prope...make-a-strong-comeback-in-february-1.62375940

At the bottom of this article, there was a "recommended" box that made me chuckle, with these two articles recommended side by side:



> *Nakheel generates Dh4.38b net profits for 2018*
> Published: March 06, 2019 18:51
> Developer closing on completion of projects like Palm Tower, 1,500 villas at Nad Al Sheba
> 
> Dubai: Nakheel recorded net profit of Dh4.38 billion in 2018, a period in which it has focused heavily on existing projects, both nearing completion and those with a longer timeframe.
> 
> “Nakheel is targeting a substantial increase in annual recurring revenue in the next five years as part of its sustainable growth strategy, with a range of new projects coming on line in the next 18 months to two years that will contribute to the projected increase once fully operational,” the developer said in a statement.
> 
> https://gulfnews.com/business/property/nakheel-generates-dh438b-net-profits-for-2018-1.62494181





> *Palm Jumeirah developer Nakheel sees net profit decline 22% to Dh4.38 billion*
> Published: March 06, 2019 16:44
> Despite Dh1.29 billion slump, total equity more than doubles in last 7 years
> 
> Dubai: The UAE’s Nakheel generated a net profit of Dh4.38 billion for 2018, a decline of 22 per cent from the previous year’s Dh5.67 billion.
> 
> The Palm Jumeirah master developer, which currently has a stock of 17,000 units, reported on Wednesday that it turned over 657 homes in 2018, taking the total number of handovers since 2010 to 13,357.
> https://gulfnews.com/business/prope...t-decline-22-to-dh438-billion-1.1551876599169


The two articles are telling the very same story, posted barely two hours apart, but their messages are almost 180 degrees apart. One highlights the large profit Nakheel made last year, and how positive it is going forward. The other begins with how much lower the profit was compared to the year before, and sums up how slowly the business is going. I wonder what the chief editor of the website was thinking?

The articles both seem to reaffirm the story of oversupply, however. Nakheel is not making as much money as before, but still keeps on building. Its stock of 17,000 units is more than what they've handed over in total in the past eight years, and the number of handovers in 2018 was less than 5% of the stock. 13,357 handovers in 8 years is close to 1700 handovers per year on average, and 2018 saw less than half of that. But as long as the stock is counted as equity, or "the money we'd have if we sold all of it at once", the picture seems rosy enough... until you realize that with 650 handovers per year, it'd take more than 25 years to get rid of all they have, essentially making the equity meaningless. It's dangerous to count on the market value of the units if the market won't buy more than a fraction of them.


----------



## noir-dresses

Ya I saw that, and it's actually become humouring like the gift that keeps giving. I'm also used to seeing these types of articles all the time, just lately I don't believe them any more. There not difficult to figure out what's just not right with the angle, or narative that the article is trying to get across.

During morning coffee I had a good discussion what to do with apartments in this market condition as of now. The person I had coffee with has a couple of units and basically said these are their two options. 

The units are empty BTW, and they have no debt either.

Option one, they can sell now even though the values have dropped, and call it a day.

Option two is they can try and rent even though the rents have dropped, and ride it out.

I asked what exactly is your goal/objective regarding your units,

the answer was simply to make money, or more importantly they did'nt want to lose any more money.

Then my next question was with all this over supply, and many more units coming to the market do you beleive your rents will cover the amount of value your units could lose if the prices keep dropping the way they have lately?

I got a long hard unconfortable stare

Wayne Gretzky's quote: “Skate to where the puck is going, not where it has been.”


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

noir-dresses said:


> Ya I saw that, and it's actually become humouring like the gift that keeps giving. I'm also used to seeing these types of articles all the time, just lately I don't believe them any more. There not difficult to figure out what's just not right with the angle, or narative that the article is trying to get across.


In this case, they appear to have tried to cover both bases, though. One article portraying the Nakheel numbers as positive and a good sign going forward, another article portraying it as signs of a worsening situation. There should be some truth to at least one of those perspectives. GulfNews is shooting one puck into each goal, to continue your hockey metaphors.


----------



## noir-dresses

Abu Dhabi sold it's 90 percent owned Manhattan Chrysler building at a huge loss. They bought the building a decade ago for 800 million USD, and now sold it for 150 USD.

What's going on when fire sales of this sort are happening?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/08/business/chrysler-building-sale/index.html


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Kyll.Ing. said:


> In this case, they appear to have tried to cover both bases, though. One article portraying the Nakheel numbers as positive and a good sign going forward, another article portraying it as signs of a worsening situation. There should be some truth to at least one of those perspectives. GulfNews is shooting one puck into each goal, to continue your hockey metaphors.


The local media will spin everything to ensure it sounds positive for the UAE. Honestly, I prefer foreign media like Bloomberg to get a better idea of the state of the economy.


----------



## siamu maharaj

noir-dresses said:


> Ya I saw that, and it's actually become humouring like the gift that keeps giving. I'm also used to seeing these types of articles all the time, just lately I don't believe them any more. There not difficult to figure out what's just not right with the angle, or narative that the article is trying to get across.
> 
> During morning coffee I had a good discussion what to do with apartments in this market condition as of now. The person I had coffee with has a couple of units and basically said these are their two options.
> 
> The units are empty BTW, and they have no debt either.
> 
> Option one, they can sell now even though the values have dropped, and call it a day.
> 
> Option two is they can try and rent even though the rents have dropped, and ride it out.
> 
> I asked what exactly is your goal/objective regarding your units,
> 
> the answer was simply to make money, or more importantly they did'nt want to lose any more money.
> 
> Then my next question was with all this over supply, and many more units coming to the market do you beleive your rents will cover the amount of value your units could lose if the prices keep dropping the way they have lately?
> 
> I got a long hard unconfortable stare
> 
> Wayne Gretzky's quote: “Skate to where the puck is going, not where it has been.”


In the same bucket, but they are rented. Rent today is 40% less that what it was a few years ago. I am also weighing what to do. I am 100% sure the prices would never really go up. With that in mind, I am crunching my numbers. Over the length of my investment, I have had a good total return, so I am happy, but the future looks really bleak to me.

I am sure 1000s of people with property in DXB are trying to make the same decision right now.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

It is possible we were all the cheapest financing option to the Dubai growth story in history .


----------



## FutureViewDxb

On the positive side....There are solutions that could soften the falls in Dubai and lift the market. We need to discuss solutions.

*Help tenants and visitors become buyers*

All tenants are potential buyers and they are already here. 

For example we have tenants paying AED4,500 per month, on 1 year tenancies, for properties valued at AED550,000. This is right now, today.

With an interest only, long term mortgage at 3.5 percent, the monthly cost to buy the same property would be AED1,600 per month. 

Think about that. Either 4,500aed per month to rent it or AED1,600 per month to buy it. 

*Increase the individual's buying power*

Again, using the above interest only mortgage, a tenant able to pay 4,500aed per month in rent is able to commit to a much better property with cheaper borrowing. In fact AED4,500 per month would buy a AED1,500,000 property!

*Suddenly the market would thrive.* 

In the same way, landlords (like me) could handle the lower yields that are going to go long term, and actually expand within the market too.

*Help us, and it will help Dubai*

Weaponise buyers and you will see the market rise. Do this with a more cautious approach to the delivery of new properties and this will be a long term solution.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Devaluing the currency will make the current residents upset and cause them to leave. So in the end it will probably make the situation worse.


----------



## Rustamsalehin

The ongoing discussion on fear of potential devaluation of AED versus USD is interesting and may guide, a real estate investor holding properties, to decide a strategy to hedge the losses due to the devaluation. 
Under the circumstance for chalking out a feasible plan, has anybody worked economics of having AED loans against the equity in properties and converting AED thus received into USD?


----------



## noir-dresses

Rustamsalehin said:


> The ongoing discussion on fear of potential devaluation of AED versus USD is interesting and may guide, a real estate investor holding properties, to decide a strategy to hedge the losses due to the devaluation.
> Under the circumstance for chalking out a feasible plan, has anybody worked economics of having AED loans against the equity in properties and converting AED thus received into USD?



It’s time the dirham moved on from the dollar peg

https://gulfnews.com/business/analysis/its-time-the-dirham-moved-on-from-the-dollar-peg-1.63010690


----------



## noir-dresses

ABANDONED HYPERCARS IN DUBAI (FERRARI,LAMBORGHINI,ROLLS ROYCE'S,BENTLEY,GTR ETC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq6hsmNNinM

it's happening again


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai fears the end of its ‘build it and they will come’ model

https://www.ft.com/content/4d169d0c-4be4-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d

Going to pick your minds a bit. We all love Dubai in our own different ways, and wish it well but I'm interested to know why you think Dubai is going through this slow down?

Why do you think real estate prices, and rents are falling, businesses shrinking, white collar workers leaving, people not traveling, transiting, vacationing in Dubai like before? Why are people not spending, shopping, investing etc, etc like before? 

Lets hear your reasons, and opinions people.


----------



## 88-777

Some of us never thought dubai had a legitimate economy. Only so much oil money to spend, and criminal money to launder. Now the ponzi gets laid bare.


----------



## siamu maharaj

noir-dresses said:


> Dubai fears the end of its ‘build it and they will come’ model
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/4d169d0c-4be4-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d
> 
> Going to pick your minds a bit. We all love Dubai in our own different ways, and wish it well but I'm interested to know why you think Dubai is going through this slow down?
> 
> Why do you think real estate prices, and rents are falling, businesses shrinking, white collar workers leaving, people not traveling, transiting, vacationing in Dubai like before? Why are people not spending, shopping, investing etc, etc like before?
> 
> Lets hear your reasons, and opinions people.


Travel is simple. AED has appreciated a lot vs. most currencies, incl. PKR, INR, RUB. These people can't spend as much money as they were able to before.

Due to drop in oil prices, less oil money from the region is being pumped into Dubai.

Another source of income for Dubai Inc. is illegal money from the neighboring countries being off-shored in the city. Due to stricter regulations, I know that it's a little more difficult to just send $$ to Dubai.

Last, I know a Dubai has lost a lot of lustre in Pakistan. Pakistanis aren't as excited about Dubai as they were before. And tons and tons of them are moving out, and fewer going in.

So that's my Pakistani perspective.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

noir-dresses said:


> Dubai fears the end of its ‘build it and they will come’ model
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/4d169d0c-4be4-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d
> 
> Going to pick your minds a bit. We all love Dubai in our own different ways, and wish it well but I'm interested to know why you think Dubai is going through this slow down?
> 
> Why do you think real estate prices, and rents are falling, businesses shrinking, white collar workers leaving, people not traveling, transiting, vacationing in Dubai like before? Why are people not spending, shopping, investing etc, etc like before?
> 
> Lets hear your reasons, and opinions people.


If I were to hazard a guess, and based off other articles I've read elsewhere, it's a matter of regional politics, at least partially. The Middle East isn't doing as hot right now, and the trade spat with Qatar among other things has slowed the UAE economy somewhat. And when the regional neighbours aren't doing as much business in Dubai, there isn't as much business to be done in Dubai for other foreigners either.

It also doesn't help that the real estate industry keeps building as if 2006 will come back. "If only we had all those apartments to sell and retail space to rent oout when the bonanza was going on... we better have tons ready when the bonanza starts again!" The result is massive oversupply. When that bubble bursts, what will real estate in Dubai be worth?


----------



## Rustamsalehin

With respect to our holding a portfolio of properties, we need to keep in mind the following:
1.	The fact that the trend of property prices and rents is downward and 
2.	There is a potential risk of devaluation of AED
Under the circumstances, what is required is, *to focus on the ways forward to minimize the potential financial damages, instead of discussing on the causes of the problems.*
The possible *ways forward* that I could think of may be as follows:
1.	Sale of the properties
2.	If the sale is not an option, get an AED loan against the equity in the property and convert the borrowed amount into an appropriate currency
Please add to the list and let us discuss the feasibility of the available options.


----------



## siamu maharaj

Rustamsalehin said:


> With respect to our holding a portfolio of properties, we need to keep in mind the following:
> 1.	The fact that the trend of property prices and rents is downward and
> 2.	There is a potential risk of devaluation of AED
> Under the circumstances, what is required is, *to focus on the ways forward to minimize the potential financial damages, instead of discussing on the causes of the problems.*
> The possible *ways forward* that I could think of may be as follows:
> 1.	Sale of the properties
> 2.	If the sale is not an option, get an AED loan against the equity in the property and convert the borrowed amount into an appropriate currency
> Please add to the list and let us discuss the feasibility of the available options.


How does getting a loan against equity help?


----------



## driverpete

The loan has to be AED, then convert the loan to your own currency. If then the AED is devalued, the amount of the loan is also devalued. You could pay it off with your own currency, in which case your currency will buy more AED than before the devaluation.


----------



## Rustamsalehin

For better understanding of the move, let me add to the above a rough specific example, a risk factor involved and mitigation of the risk.
Assume that you get an equity loan of AED 100 at the interest rate of 4%.
You convert the amount to US$ 27.
Interest amount payable is a risk. However, it can be mitigated, if you invest the borrowed amount to earn more than 4%. You can pay the interest by using the profit earned. (If your rate of profit on investment is lesser than the rate of interest on the borrowed amount, you are paying some cost to hedge potential risk of devaluation. If the profit rate is more than interest rate then it will be a bonus.)
Assume that AED is devalued at a certain point by 25%. Your US$ 27 plus profit earned on it will fetch more AEDs, consequently.
Your loan liability remains to be AED 100 plus interest amount.
You can payback your AED loan by converting the USD amount you are holding.
A financial expert in the group may tweak the above provided information to make it confirming to the market conditions.


----------



## 88-777

Yeah those sort of transactions are difficult unless you are extremely rich to begin with, and the uae would crack down hard on such things if they plan to unpeg their currency.


----------



## Rustamsalehin

88-777 said:


> Yeah those sort of transactions are difficult unless you are extremely rich to begin with, and the uae would crack down hard on such things if they plan to unpeg their currency.


As the banks are granting equity loans, why do you think that the proposed transactions are difficult.
Also, spell out *what measures UAE government may take*, if it plans to devalue AED or unpeg AED with USD.
It is also to be noted that my proposal is at this stage when risk of devaluation is potential and there is no government measures in sight.


----------



## noir-dresses

De pegging, and floating a currency is a tricky process. If it were to happen everything in the UAE would need a lot more AED to cover the difference such as energy/gas prices at the pumps, imported food, and anything else which is imported which is practically everything.

Regarding the banks with loans they just could give AED loans/mortages on property, but still have them pegged to the USD just so they don't hand out a lot of local currency in exchange. It's in their interest to not let any one know if the currency will be unpegged just to secure themselves in the long run.

What's really important they don't peg to the Chinese Yuan, especially oil prices then all hell would break lose with retaliation from the US.


----------



## noir-dresses

I'm also surprised nobody caught on to this news,

Fresh round of taxes may hurt UAE retail market.

First round in 2017 hurt sales, analysts say as UAE studies options for further taxation.

https://gulfnews.com/business/fresh...6497JNa3jApNCqnusLGG4mq3frLwMxkgdurh_N0jfbS28

So basically falling everything, but taxes, and fees will rise.


----------



## Rustamsalehin

noir-dresses said:


> De pegging, and floating a currency is a tricky process. If it were to happen everything in the UAE would need a lot more AED to cover the difference such as energy/gas prices at the pumps, imported food, and anything else which is imported which is practically everything.
> 
> Regarding the banks with loans they just could give AED loans/mortages on property, but still have them pegged to the USD just so they don't hand out a lot of local currency in exchange. It's in their interest to not let any one know if the currency will be unpegged just to secure themselves in the long run.
> 
> What's really important they don't peg to the Chinese Yuan, especially oil prices then all hell would break lose with retaliation from the US.


There is no doubt that devaluation will cause a lot of inflation. Therefore, seemingly it will be a very difficult decision. However, *in the current economic situation for encouraging tourism and buying of available properties government may go for it.*
Hence, uncertainty or risk does exist.
Banks are already offering equity loans. If a client applies for it, *I wonder why a bank will refuse the loan and conversion of loaned amount to USD.*
Note that I am proposing of the above transactions to mitigate the already existing uncertainty.


----------



## noir-dresses

Rustamsalehin said:


> There is no doubt that devaluation will cause a lot of inflation. Therefore, seemingly it will be a very difficult decision. However, *in the current economic situation for encouraging tourism and buying of available properties government may go for it.*
> Hence, uncertainty or risk does exist.
> Banks are already offering equity loans. If a client applies for it, *I wonder why a bank will refuse the loan and conversion of loaned amount to USD.*
> Note that I am proposing of the above transactions to mitigate the already existing uncertainty.


What I'm saying is yes it's normal to take a loan out on existing equity, but I'm sure their is a team of financial experts saying/thinking/calculating if we do this that might happen which is not good for us. Or if we do this, that might happen so let's cover all the angles so it first, and foremost benefits us all the time.

I'm just speculating they might peg loans to USD value convertable to AED, but all the signs, and hints are their for it to happen. It's still an if if the UAE will even de peg the Dirham vs USD, but if they do the formula is very easy which is convert as much assets real estate/cash into hard USD vs time, that simple.

Do you see how that works for them in banking if they peg loans to USD? It's a win win for them because they always get their USD values worth, and if they de peg the local currency they are guaranteed more AED.

If you can get a equity loan right here, right now with no clauses attached regarding NO pegging AED loan to USD I would say go for it ASAP.


----------



## noir-dresses

I also forgot to mention in this downturn of dropping real estate prices before you get the loan on equity you'll need to get the property appraised. You'll get hit hard once appraisal is complete because the banks will appaise the value at maybe two thirds of what it is worth now. 

Something also to think about is it worth losing a property just incase you can't pay off a certain percentage of loan/equity on a unit which was appraised lower to start with???


----------



## Rustamsalehin

"If you can get a equity loan right here, right now with no clauses attached regarding NO pegging AED loan to USD I would say go for it ASAP."
Equity loan in AED is available.
If loan amount is two third of the current price, it is better than having no hedging arrangement for potential devaluation risk.


----------



## noir-dresses

Rustamsalehin said:


> "If you can get a equity loan right here, right now with no clauses attached regarding NO pegging AED loan to USD I would say go for it ASAP."
> Equity loan in AED is available.
> If loan amount is two third of the current price, it is better than having no hedging arrangement for potential devaluation risk.


Correction bank appraises their value of your asset at around two thirds of what property is worth right now, and that appraisal costs a few thousand AED. After that you can get a loan on a certain percentage of the two thirds the bank has appraised.

Understand now?


----------



## A7R

If the currency is devalued, could this spur a new rush of foreign investors (Chinese/Russian/etc..), which could see property prices appreciate due to demand?

Another question I have is; will the dirham suddenly drop in value overnight or will the drop happen gradually over time?


----------



## 88-777

If the currency is devalued, it will cost more to import all the needed supplies, increasing construction costs. It will make various goods at the malls cost more. 

Devaluing helps internal industries, but dubai doesnt make and export much.


----------



## A7R

88-777 said:


> If the currency is devalued, it will cost more to import all the needed supplies, increasing construction costs. It will make various goods at the malls cost more.
> 
> Devaluing helps internal industries, but dubai doesnt make and export much.


Yeah it's horrible when currencies devalue, I went through it when the pound lost like 15% of its value after the brexit vote and stuff like iphones and camera lenses got really expensive in the UK.

In terms of exports Dubai itself is more of a financial and services hub, whereas the rest of the UAE does produce and export quite a lot. In fact it is in the top 20 largest exporter nations in the world, bigger than Brazil, Spain, Australia, Sweden, Saudi Arabia etc...
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2078rank.html

But going back to my question, if the supposed devaluation occurs and it strengthens the economy, will property values start to appreciate over the medium/long term?


----------



## Freestyler

> will property values start to appreciate over the medium/long term?


In theory yes, assuming supply doesn't keep rising.


----------



## 88-777

They wont appreciate in usd though.


----------



## siamu maharaj

Freestyler said:


> In theory yes, assuming supply doesn't keep rising.


Dubai doesn't know of a lot of ways to make money, so they'll probably keep building to make money. Constrained supply = no Emaar, no Nakheel.


----------



## noir-dresses

A7R said:


> Yeah it's horrible when currencies devalue, I went through it when the pound lost like 15% of its value after the brexit vote and stuff like iphones and camera lenses got really expensive in the UK.
> 
> In terms of exports Dubai itself is more of a financial and services hub, whereas the rest of the UAE does produce and export quite a lot. In fact it is in the top 20 largest exporter nations in the world, bigger than Brazil, Spain, Australia, Sweden, Saudi Arabia etc...
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2078rank.html
> 
> But going back to my question, if the supposed devaluation occurs and it strengthens the economy, will property values start to appreciate over the medium/long term?


Yes UAE is a top 20 exporter, but the vast majority of funds raised from exports are in the oil, and gas industry.

Regarding speculation of de pegging AED from the USD could very well benefit the over all long term health of the economy.


----------



## Freestyler

88-777 said:


> They wont appreciate in usd though.


True, but it will still keep the market liquid because there will be buyers. Right now you have two choices hold or try to sell at illiquid market. If mortgages are in AED then stable valuations and rentals makes the payments easier. Valuations and rentals will go up probably in this scenario.


----------



## noir-dresses

Mobius Says Don’t Buy Dubai Property Before ‘Real Slump’

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...nmAyWj0Y6U1aCSyE4YZxyXs0l7msILT3AKe6VO4k1Az2w

just a few weeks ago listen to when this man stated,

Investment guru Mark Mobius unconcerned about Dubai property market oversupply

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/pro...yb9K0aPhLrZox_tuXHdhwFXejx1oHt7FHbLnzRsogJgkM


----------



## 88-777

Lol investment “guru”

Not a single finance guy, if you took away all their money, could ever make it back.


----------



## Alex-London

*Azizi Riveira*

Hi , any advice on buying in Azizi Riveira ?seen the location and progress recently and been offered 1 Bed at 10% premium above launch price , thanks


----------



## noir-dresses

Alex-London said:


> Hi , any advice on buying in Azizi Riveira ?seen the location and progress recently and been offered 1 Bed at 10% premium above launch price , thanks


It all depends if your buying the property as a holiday home, or investment with best possible ROI?


----------



## 88-777

Alex-London said:


> Hi , any advice on buying in Azizi Riveira ?seen the location and progress recently and been offered 1 Bed at 10% premium above launch price , thanks


Ask for a 30% discount. If they balk, push for 50%.


----------



## noir-dresses

88-777 said:


> Ask for a 30% discount. If they balk, push for 50%.


In an economy that's going through deflation undercutting offers is the norm. Who ever owns property, and is over extended will certainly bite if offered 30-50 percent discount offers.

Why any one would buy off plan is beyond me when the ready market key in hand is hurting, not to mention less risk of off plan not being completed.


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai developers push post-handover plans even on ready homes

Anywhere from 3- to 10-year plans are available at some of the most popular communities

Dubai: Don’t want to wait around for an off-plan property to be delivered? Options are opening up for buyers going for a ready property in Dubai … and with the added comfort of paying it off years after the handover.

That’s right, post-handover payment plans that have helped generate higher off-plan sales are financing deals for ready homes as well. While it is the government-affiliated developers who are going to town with these offers, private players too are getting into the game with payment schedules of five years and more.

They will need to, as an estimated 30,000 homes are likely to be delivered this year, on top of the 20,000 plus units from last year. No developer can afford to keep unsold ready units on their books for too long. (In the first three months of the year, 3,182 ready homes were registered with Dubai Land Department, a decline of 6 per cent from 2018.) “Holding unsold stock is always a cost, but those that remain unsold for three years and more will need to pay for VAT as well,” according to a developer source. “That’s one cost developers with ready residential properties will not want to have.

“The only options then would be to offer unsold units on rent directly, or they try and come up with some plan that will see payments being made over multiple years after handover.”

The looming VAT factor in residential selling

As things stand now, all residential sales deals are “zero-rated”, thus exempt from the 5 per cent VAT. But going forward, if developers are left with unsold stock after three years, the VAT kicks into effect.

“What’s clear for now is that on constructed buildings, after three years, there will be a VAT on the unsold homes,” said an industry source. “But if a building is being built now and three years later still has unsold stock, does VAT apply even then? That’s not yet clear, and the market wouldn’t mind further clarity on that.”

https://gulfnews.com/business/prope...handover-plans-even-on-ready-homes-1.63159428

This should shake things around even more. The government needs their VAT revenue paid, and developers have a lot of depreciatied/no revenue generating stock they cant sell/off load with many more units expected to flood the market even more. 

The old pay everything later scheme where nobody pays nobody in the end, and the kicked around can gets kicked down the street even more. 

Any one wanting, or thinking of buying just needs to sit on the side lines a bit longer, relax, enjoy the party, stock up on pop corn, and not part with their funds until the real shit show hits the fan. What ever you can buy now you'll have a two for one sale really soon if you wait.


----------



## noir-dresses

Regarding speculation of AED depegging vs the USD we have a signal from yesterday that KSA for now is sticking to it's guns with the Petrol Dollar policy.

Any policy of depegging will most likely involve both the UAE, and KSA to act together in unison. There's a bit of politics involved here with rumours KSA would depeg if pushed regarding NOPEC a few days ago. In the end they got an additional carrot from the States when US President Donald Trump’s decision to designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) as a terrorist organization. As long as good ties with Mr. Jared in the States, along with Isreal continue I can see no depegging as of now. 

Aramco Launches Massive 6-Part Dollar Debt Deal With Order Book Already At $40 Billion.

USD 3Y Fixed -- T+75 area
USD 3Y Floating Rate Notes -- Libor + equivalent
USD 5Y Fixed -- T+95 area
USD 10Y Fixed -- T+125 area
USD 20Y Fixed -- T+160 area
USD 30Y Fixed -- T+175 area

Saudi energy minister expects Aramco bond demand at ‘north of’ $30 billion

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/08/sau...ects-aramco-bond-demand-above-30-billion.html


----------



## Alex-London

Hi 88-777

Where else would you find 1 beds in this enviable location for under 600,000 aed?


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

noir-dresses said:


> Regarding speculation of AED depegging vs the USD we have a signal from yesterday that KSA for now is sticking to it's guns with the Petrol Dollar policy.
> 
> Any policy of depegging will most likely involve both the UAE, and KSA to act together in unison. There's a bit of politics involved here with rumours KSA would depeg if pushed regarding NOPEC a few days ago. In the end they got an additional carrot from the States when US President Donald Trump’s decision to designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) as a terrorist organization. As long as good ties with Mr. Jared in the States, along with Isreal continue I can see no depegging as of now.
> 
> Aramco Launches Massive 6-Part Dollar Debt Deal With Order Book Already At $40 Billion.
> 
> USD 3Y Fixed -- T+75 area
> USD 3Y Floating Rate Notes -- Libor + equivalent
> USD 5Y Fixed -- T+95 area
> USD 10Y Fixed -- T+125 area
> USD 20Y Fixed -- T+160 area
> USD 30Y Fixed -- T+175 area
> 
> Saudi energy minister expects Aramco bond demand at ‘north of’ $30 billion
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/08/sau...ects-aramco-bond-demand-above-30-billion.html


I still don't see the incentive for depegging. It may benefit Dubai with their falling real estate prices and stagnant tourist numbers, but remember, AD is the one that makes the decisions, and they have much less of a reason to depeg the currency. And when has AD ever made a major political decision that benefits Dubai? All of their major decisions in the past few years have hurt Dubai. 

A much better option for the UAE is to peg to a basket of currencies like Kuwait did. That makes much more sense than de-valuing the currency since de-valuing only provides short term relief.


----------



## 88-777

Alex-London said:


> Hi 88-777
> 
> Where else would you find 1 beds in this enviable location for under 600,000 aed?


Its a buyers market. You lowball, if they bitch, you give em the old finger and walk nextdoor.


----------



## noir-dresses

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> I still don't see the incentive for depegging. It may benefit Dubai with their falling real estate prices and stagnant tourist numbers, but remember, AD is the one that makes the decisions, and they have much less of a reason to depeg the currency. And when has AD ever made a major political decision that benefits Dubai? All of their major decisions in the past few years have hurt Dubai.
> 
> A much better option for the UAE is to peg to a basket of currencies like Kuwait did. That makes much more sense than de-valuing the currency since de-valuing only provides short term relief.


How you doing buddy, your not around like the good old days especially on the aviation thread. 

Regarding depegging Dubai have a lot more control than I think they're aware of. Yes Abu Dhabi make the federal decisions, but Dubai still has the power to regulate how much real estate units can be built even though they make a pretty penny selling land, fees on building permits, and transaction fees. Dubai can also lower hotel stay costs, lower rents in commercial, and retail units, 
maybe lower EKs flights to attract more pax, etc, etc. 

I talk to a lot of people in DXB, and most of them say it's just to expensive. 

They need to start soul searching because tourists get bored of buildings, and shopping malls. It's also very very important to win the hearts, and minds of people which unfortunately they have been losing lately.


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai: An Absolute Mess!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbxQHjcctZk

An interesting video to watch regarding Dubai's urban planning.


----------



## UAE Investor

noir-dresses said:


> Dubai: An Absolute Mess!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbxQHjcctZk
> 
> An interesting video to watch regarding Dubai's urban planning.


The biggest curiosity in the us right now is Dubai,only a matter of time for some Yank idiot, comes along and try and quantify it under there own understanding.
Just a load off B.S 

Does he realise Dubai does not have violence or shootings, large ethnic communities that hate each other etc etc..as in the USA?

From a UK prospective does Dubai have droves of f/king shitty dog owners scumbag motorcyclists etc....and other ethic violence?

Dubai is Under construction and the worlds number one place....its not perfect but the brits and American casting aspersions on Dubai is a sick joke mop..!

Peace and may it long continue in the UAE ....!

:cheers:


----------



## chefdude

noir-dresses said:


> Dubai fears the end of its ‘build it and they will come’ model
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/4d169d0c-4be4-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d
> 
> Going to pick your minds a bit. We all love Dubai in our own different ways, and wish it well but I'm interested to know why you think Dubai is going through this slow down?
> 
> Why do you think real estate prices, and rents are falling, businesses shrinking, white collar workers leaving, people not traveling, transiting, vacationing in Dubai like before? Why are people not spending, shopping, investing etc, etc like before?
> 
> Lets hear your reasons, and opinions people.



Dubai is suffering due to greedy policies that have priced all but the obscenely rich out of being able to realistically live there. Inflation outside of real estate is rampant in the UAE and salaries are in no way keeping pace so year on year the money in your pocket is dwindling away.

Entertainment prices are set way to high to begin with and most sensible people don't bother going to the new attractions, then panic sets in and the amusement parks heavily slash their prices or offer Entertainer vouchers in an effort to cover costs.

There is no reaslitic real estate policy they just continue to create more units than the market can absorb and soon areas of Dubai will mirror the ghost cities in China. All the while the fees and taxes being paid on every dwelling keep rolling in but there is no long term view on the damage it is doing.

I think the boom years are well and truly over and will not be coming back, and I think expo will be a flop


----------



## siamu maharaj

chefdude said:


> Dubai is suffering due to greedy policies that have priced all but the obscenely rich out of being able to realistically live there. Inflation outside of real estate is rampant in the UAE and salaries are in no way keeping pace so year on year the money in your pocket is dwindling away.
> 
> Entertainment prices are set way to high to begin with and most sensible people don't bother going to the new attractions, then panic sets in and the amusement parks heavily slash their prices or offer Entertainer vouchers in an effort to cover costs.
> 
> There is no reaslitic real estate policy they just continue to create more units than the market can absorb and soon areas of Dubai will mirror the ghost cities in China. All the while the fees and taxes being paid on every dwelling keep rolling in but there is no long term view on the damage it is doing.
> 
> I think the boom years are well and truly over and will not be coming back, and I think expo will be a flop


In my opinion Dubai simply failed to switch from the insane growth model to a sustainable model. All the flashy stuff and no taxes regime had its time, but it had to come to and end. Dubai never successfully made the switch in a sustainable manner. It also failed to retain the talent which is trying to leave for Canada/Australia. I am not talking about citizenship, but giving them the confidence they won't be thrown out if they don't have a job for 2 months.

Expo 2020 is the most blatant example of it. An Expo 2004 would've made sense. But in 2020 it makes no sense. It's too late for such an event. Dubai is a 40 years old man, still acting like it's in its teenage.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

noir-dresses said:


> How you doing buddy, your not around like the good old days especially on the aviation thread.
> 
> Regarding depegging Dubai have a lot more control than I think they're aware of. Yes Abu Dhabi make the federal decisions, but Dubai still has the power to regulate how much real estate units can be built even though they make a pretty penny selling land, fees on building permits, and transaction fees. Dubai can also lower hotel stay costs, lower rents in commercial, and retail units,
> maybe lower EKs flights to attract more pax, etc, etc.
> 
> I talk to a lot of people in DXB, and most of them say it's just to expensive.
> 
> They need to start soul searching because tourists get bored of buildings, and shopping malls. It's also very very important to win the hearts, and minds of people which unfortunately they have been losing lately.


Nice to hear from you too noir. 
Dubai can control what happens in its emirate but that's more or less it. AD controls everything else including what happens in Sharjah, Ajman etc. simply because those emirates are too poor to take care of themselves. 

Dubai can lower prices but at the end of the day, yields and margins decide what happens, and inflation and many other factors outside of Dubai's control are making the city more expensive. Hotel prices are already quite low and EK's yields and profits are low as well. They can't really lower prices more than they already have. I would suggest EK follow TK and EY's strategy of offering transit passengers the opportunity for free 2-day stopovers. They might as well take advantage of those passengers and have them spend money in Dubai.


----------



## noir-dresses

UAE Investor said:


> The biggest curiosity in the us right now is Dubai,only a matter of time for some Yank idiot, comes along and try and quantify it under there own understanding.
> Just a load off B.S
> 
> Does he realise Dubai does not have violence or shootings, large ethnic communities that hate each other etc etc..as in the USA?
> 
> From a UK prospective does Dubai have droves of f/king shitty dog owners scumbag motorcyclists etc....and other ethic violence?
> 
> Dubai is Under construction and the worlds number one place....its not perfect but the brits and American casting aspersions on Dubai is a sick joke mop..!
> 
> Peace and may it long continue in the UAE ....!
> 
> :cheers:


Hi buddy, relax, and take it with a pinch of salt. Having more Avenue's, and squares is not a bad thing especially when it's full of life enhancing the over all experience, and enjoyment of where you live. One example I noticed was the tallest block which in reality is also the deadest block. The addition of the plaza is much needed to spice up that area which hasn't been built yet.

The guy doing the youtube street video might be an American, but he does many other cities, Dubai just happened to be episode 6 if I remember. There is nothing wrong with pointing out whats missing, and what could be additionally done so boring shopping malls are not the highlight of a persons everyday life.

One of the things that bother me sometimes in Dubai when I drive is if I don't make the right turn at the right time I can end up driving for miles going down and around and back tracking again to get to where I want to be.

BTW Yanks are very nice people in general when you get to know them better. Also lets not forget if it were'nt for the Yanks the official language there would be Farsi so let's not burn bridges that are of at most importance to the well being of the place.

back on topic this came out yesterday on Bloomberg for those who have an account, and who are interest to read, and see what they have to say,

The Economic Chill Gripping Dubai in Five Charts

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-CGUaP1aUDpiL3VW7ng1gw_1YraowG9LouHXgA5-qbsVU


----------



## noir-dresses

chefdude said:


> Dubai is suffering due to greedy policies that have priced all but the obscenely rich out of being able to realistically live there. Inflation outside of real estate is rampant in the UAE and salaries are in no way keeping pace so year on year the money in your pocket is dwindling away.
> 
> Entertainment prices are set way to high to begin with and most sensible people don't bother going to the new attractions, then panic sets in and the amusement parks heavily slash their prices or offer Entertainer vouchers in an effort to cover costs.
> 
> There is no reaslitic real estate policy they just continue to create more units than the market can absorb and soon areas of Dubai will mirror the ghost cities in China. All the while the fees and taxes being paid on every dwelling keep rolling in but there is no long term view on the damage it is doing.
> 
> I think the boom years are well and truly over and will not be coming back, and I think expo will be a flop


I didn't know but it came to my attention that employees of Emaar, and the other big developers call their sales offices "the fish market" beleive it, or not.

They in real life the sales agents call selling real estate/units actually "selling coupons" to people/investors/fish who never intend to live there, and plan to pawn off there property to the next fish. True story the way they the agents swing with their sales pitches, but we're realizing investors don't bend that way, and are slowly becoming aware of whats going on.

The next time one of you go to a sales office throw a question to the agent how's the fish market doing today, throw in a wink, and see their reaction, and what they say.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

*Dubai sees steady growth in tourism arrivals in early 2019*

A total of 3.14 million international tourists visited Dubai in the first two months of the year, up 90,000 on the figure of 3.05 million from 2018.

According to data from the Dubai Department of Tourism & Commerce Marketing, the number marked a continuation of a trend that saw 3.01 million visits in January and February in 2017 and 2.68 million in 2016, respectively.

Of individual countries, *India was the primary source of guests at 386,000, a drop of nine per cent* over the same period last year, while the number of visitors from the UK rose four per cent, those from Germany increased 11 per cent and from the US the number was up four per cent.

The average occupancy rate for hotel establishments in the period came in at *84 per cent, compared with 87 per cent last year*.

Revenue per available room was Dh432 in the January to February period, down from Dh501 last year, while the average daily room rate was Dh513 compared to Dh574 in 2018.

http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/n...ady-growth-in-tourism-arrivals-in-early-2019/

So one positive stat but everything else is down which is not good. Interestingly, if Dubai can tap into the transit traffic at DXB, they can really increase tourist arrivals. Perhaps ease visa restrictions on Indian passport holders?

*63% of travellers passing through Dubai airport are in transit*

Data from Colliers International revealed that more than 63 per cent of the 89 million flyers travelling through Dubai International Airport in 2018 were in transit. That's roughly 56 million people making stopovers and not leaving the airport a year or 153,000 every day.

https://gulfnews.com/business/touri...head-of-arabian-travel-market-1.1553683650538


----------



## noir-dresses

Seems a little quiet here for a market that is still so unsettled.

Is everyone just whistling while walking through the grave yard at night?


----------



## UAE Investor

noir-dresses said:


> Seems a little quiet here for a market that is still so unsettled.
> 
> Is everyone just whistling while walking through the grave yard at night?


Still see agents wanting silly money for poor quality apartments all over Dubai!

:cheers:


----------



## noir-dresses

UAE Investor said:


> Still see agents wanting silly money for poor quality apartments all over Dubai!
> 
> :cheers:


The agent's just aren't in touch with today's price earnings multiple while off plan has laser targeting advertising baked in the cake.


----------



## Scion

EmiratesAirline380 said:


> So one positive stat but everything else is down which is not good. Interestingly, if Dubai can tap into the transit traffic at DXB, they can really increase tourist arrivals. Perhaps ease visa restrictions on Indian passport holders?


Emaar's chairman was thinking exactly that a year ago when Dubai Square first launched. He said they are working with RTA to look into the prospect of building a metro line straight from the airport to the Square, to encourage transit flyers to go and spend there. But everything seems to be placed in the back burner for now...


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Scion said:


> Emaar's chairman was thinking exactly that a year ago when Dubai Square first launched. He said they are working with RTA to look into the prospect of building a metro line straight from the airport to the Square, to encourage transit flyers to go and spend there. But everything seems to be placed in the back burner for now...


They should be working with Emirates and FlyDubai as well to give passengers the opportunity to visit the city on longer stopovers, or giving passengers the ability to extend their stay for free.


----------



## 88-777

Scion said:


> Emaar's chairman was thinking exactly that a year ago when Dubai Square first launched. He said they are working with RTA to look into the prospect of building a metro line straight from the airport to the Square, to encourage transit flyers to go and spend there. But everything seems to be placed in the back burner for now...


It would only be possible if they drop all airport security. Leaving the clean zone on a few hour layover is a pain in the ass.


Will this hub type traffic even survive? All the airlines are buying long range jets for direct flights now. No reason to stop in dubai.


----------



## noir-dresses

Never in my mind did I ever think I would stop in Iceland for a three day layover when flying from Europe to North America, but I. 

Good PR, simple to do, something interesting to see, and do at stopovers, and great feedback from people who did the same thing before me made my decision easy. 

Stopovers are great if a destination has history, culture, and natural beauty to see.


----------



## 88-777

Wasnt that just because of those super cheap flights from an airline that went bankrupt?


----------



## noir-dresses

88-777 said:


> Wasnt that just because of those super cheap flights from an airline that went bankrupt?


You mean WOW, but Iceland Air is better. 

Anyways Context of what I was saying is stopovers are fun if there value based priced, compared to a market failure of critical mass just passing through transit.


----------



## noir-dresses

Buffett Bets on Dubai Property as Market Prolongs Slump

Warren Buffett’s real estate brokerage is expanding into the Middle East with an office in Dubai.

Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Gulf Properties will be led by Chairman Ihsan Husein Al Marzouqi and Chief Executive Officer Phil Sheridan. It will have a team of 30 advisers and support staff, according to a statement. “Gulf Properties aspires to grow quickly by tripling its advisor count and opening a second office in Abu Dhabi within a year," it said.


Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices in November teamed up with London-based Kay & Co., its second franchisee in Europe, after Rubina Real Estate in Berlin. The company said then it hoped to add Milan, Vienna and Dubai to its network. Berkshire Hathaway Specialty Insurance Co. started operations in Dubai last year.

Buffett is expanding in Dubai as the emirate’s property market defies all predictions of a rebound and extends a slump since a peak in October 2014. S&P Global Ratings said last month it expects prices to fall as much as 10 percent this year.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ts-on-dubai-property-as-market-prolongs-slump

U.A.E. Token Sales Make It a Global Crypto Capital, Passing U.S.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-make-it-a-global-crypto-capital-passing-u-s


----------



## siamu maharaj

Well, I hope Buffett's right on this one.


----------



## DocDubai

*Exclusive: Dubai real estate businessman Jawad Azizi detained by police*


> Dubai real estate executive Jawad Azizi was arrested and detained by Dubai Police more than a month ago, sources told Arabian Business.
> 
> The case is currently with Dubai’s Public Prosecutor and lawyers are hoping a court hearing will be scheduled within the next week, a source said.
> 
> Jawad Azizi is the managing director of Meilenstein Developments, a Germany-based real estate developer which last October announced its debut into the UAE’s real estate market, with plans for eight projects worth around AED1.2 billion ($327 million).
> 
> “We are going to invest a further AED2 billion in developing projects in 2018 and 2019 and the numbers will then go up once we start building the projects and selling the properties. Meilenstein Developments is entering in the UAE market at a time when the real estate sector achieved a high level of maturity backed up with a regulatory environment that protects property buyers, investors, developers and brokers and with a high level of transparency and accountability,” Jawad Azizi, was quoted as saying at the time.
> 
> Arabian Business has contacted the Public Prosecutor’s office for comment.


https://www.arabianbusiness.com/new...te-businessman-jawad-azizi-detained-by-police

He's the son of the chairman of Azizi developments...anyone has any idea what this is all about?


----------



## FutureViewDxb

Liked this piece, author's historical articles also compelling:


"I often hear investor friends who are long real estate argue that prices will bottom at 2009 – 2010 levels, not far below current levels. Poppycock – absolutely wrong. There is nothing sacred about a prior bottom in real estate."


"Moreover, home mortgages in the UAE are among the most expensive in the world and homeowner equity will continue to be gutted" 


"New builds? Off-plan Ponzi schemes? Make no sense when there are tens of thousands of empty units and a delivery pipeline that is unquantifiable. I am an investor, not a masochist and off-plan in a glutted market with balance sheet angst is a license to be skinned alive in this crazy life" 


You can read more of his historical stuff on Dubai RE (pretty spot on) here too- click here


----------



## Rustamsalehin

*Marina 101 – A project that had started in 2006.*
We are already in June 2019. However, handover has not been accomplished. 
There is neither any sign of handover nor that of Business Completion Certification, as of yet.
Apparently, construction has been completed since a long period of time.
However, some unknown reason is causing delay in issue of Building Completion Certificate by Dubai Development Authority. 
As a relevant comment, it seems no entity wish to work with this developer. 
Handover Agent that was appointed recently has dissociated itself, so soon. 
A well reputed Main Contractor and two internationally reputed Hotel Operators had abandoned the developer, earlier.
At this moment of time, it is strange that we do not see lights or guards at the site, even in nighttime. 
The owners of the units in the development are genuinely worried for the future of this development.
Has anybody got any positives with respect to this development that provide hope for completion of this project soon and subsequent professional operation of the hotel for the benefit of the investors?


----------



## noir-dresses

Rustamsalehin said:


> *Marina 101 – A project that had started in 2006.*
> We are already in June 2019. However, handover has not been accomplished.
> There is neither any sign of handover nor that of Business Completion Certification, as of yet.
> Apparently, construction has been completed since a long period of time.
> However, some unknown reason is causing delay in issue of Building Completion Certificate by Dubai Development Authority.
> As a relevant comment, it seems no entity wish to work with this developer.
> Handover Agent that was appointed recently has dissociated itself, so soon.
> A well reputed Main Contractor and two internationally reputed Hotel Operators had abandoned the developer, earlier.
> At this moment of time, it is strange that we do not see lights or guards at the site, even in nighttime.
> The owners of the units in the development are genuinely worried for the future of this development.
> Has anybody got any positives with respect to this development that provide hope for completion of this project soon and subsequent professional operation of the hotel for the benefit of the investors?


Elementary dear Watson, type big words and chew gum at the same time while trying to reach the top jackle.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

*empowering renters to buy make National policy- urgent.*

There's an article in The National today about mortgage penalties. it explains how banks in the UAE choose to apply the MAXIMUM allowable charges on a customer - even though the charges are outrageous and damage the market liquidity. see here

No shame you might say, and, a typical f*ck the consumer (you and me) attitude.

The banks need to be in tune with the UAE.

UAE/Dubai Govt please listen:

You need to get the cost of borrowing down. 
You need to check the banks DAILY (they are hindering growth). 
You need to EMPOWER all those renting at the 2000-3000 AED per month to buy, 
You need to offer dynamic mortgage products.

Your plans are being scuppered by your own, flag waving establishments - many of which carry your name.

Get to a point that hairdressers and Uber drivers can buy a property and you have a market. (Just like the UK and Europe- sort the banks out)


----------



## 88-777

hair dressers and uber drivers get to live in commieblock style apartments far out of town.


----------



## siamu maharaj

FutureViewDxb said:


> There's an article in The National today about mortgage penalties. it explains how banks in the UAE choose to apply the MAXIMUM allowable charges on a customer - even though the charges are outrageous and damage the market liquidity. see here
> 
> No shame you might say, and, a typical f*ck the consumer (you and me) attitude.
> 
> The banks need to be in tune with the UAE.
> 
> UAE/Dubai Govt please listen:
> 
> You need to get the cost of borrowing down.
> You need to check the banks DAILY (they are hindering growth).
> You need to EMPOWER all those renting at the 2000-3000 AED per month to buy,
> You need to offer dynamic mortgage products.
> 
> Your plans are being scuppered by your own, flag waving establishments - many of which carry your name.
> 
> Get to a point that hairdressers and Uber drivers can buy a property and you have a market. (Just like the UK and Europe- sort the banks out)


Haridresser is not renting a 3000 dhm apartment. She barely makes 4000 dhm a month.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

Honestly the cost of borrowing is so high in Dubai, you have to be a lottery winner to participate (or a money launderer/ drug dealer) in this market..............and even if you manage to handle the monthlies your bank will still be working out how to f*ck you at the first opportunity.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

The idea that the UAE doesn't support their entire real estate growth plan (which is vast and ongoing for a very loooong time) with ultra low, easy access lending has always surprised me. 

Of course the govt gets access to ultra low lending- not the punters.

Then, even worse, the idea that banks are able to get away with totally irresponsible tricks, that would be considered socially irresponsible in other markets, maybe reveals a naivety on their part. 

A bit like when they said they wouldn't regulate property supply- "if a developer wants to build then let them build" #callingallmoneylaunderers


----------



## FutureViewDxb

This is not just limited to banks either.

Empower and the other cooling companies are highly profitable and total cash machines- but who reigns them in? No one.

How the govt couldn't see that providing ultra cheap cooling at an inconsequential cost to residents, in a country that requires it (or people actually die), was essential, AMAZES ME.

Instead cooling now makes up some of the most expensive parts of a resident's budget.

It turns out that Empower and their bredren are mostly more expensive to operate than old style hole in the wall units. BRILLIANT.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

Next the absolute lack of regulation of service charges.

14,000 to 15,000 AED for a 1 x bed in Discovery Gardens!

This outrageous cost is reduced by more than half, by those who own entire buildings in Discovery Gardens. This is because building owners can do much of the work themselves. 

Of course their buildings are in better condition too.

There are many areas out of control that could win trust to the punter and sincerely assist a real market beyond speculators.

I feel the rich lobbyists are so strong that sheikh Mo doesn't see what is happening at ground zero.

Love Dubai and can see clear paths to a happy and busy market.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

I just want to emphasise the above points, and then I'll be done for the month (I promise).

*Service charge Profiteering:*

To understand the scale of profiteering in service charges alone, by Nakheel and many more is essential to see where the choking is happening.

If you sit down with any building owner in Discovery Gardens (who, by owning the entire building, is able to reject certain services from Nakheel, and go to the open market for them), you will discover that he/she is able to reduce the costs of service charges by nearly *two thirds*. I am sure this is the case in every other development to different degrees.

*THIS IS ANTI DUBAI*

While this hurts us mere mortals, just like unsustainable cooling bills in a hot country, it actually works against the Dubai/UAE long term plan. The profiteers (banks, cooling companies, developers) are effectively going against everything sheikh mo hopes to achieve. Why let them? Why the f*ck sit back and watch them strangle the life out of so much growth potential?

Every single utility and essential services lucky enough to be given the license to print money (afterall as consumers, we can't function without cooling for example) should be putting Dubai first. FIRST. ABOVE ALL ELSE.


----------



## noir-dresses

......and the plot thickens, it's getting fugly!!!


----------



## siamu maharaj

The latest news is the business sentiment is going up in Saudia and UAE. Some good news, huh.


----------



## A7R

FutureviewDXb you raise some excellent points.

As someone who lives between the UK and UAE, I have never seen a bank that doesn't want to f**k me over and charge exorbitant interest rates and fees. I would love to see Dubai' government lead on issues like this and protect account holders with better regulation.

Same goes for profiteering utility companies, more should be done to tackle soaring prices, so we don't end up with situations like those happening in the UK where thousands of people are dying because they cannot afford to heat their homes.


----------



## Rustamsalehin

FutureViewDxb said:


> Next the absolute lack of regulation of service charges.
> 
> 14,000 to 15,000 AED for a 1 x bed in Discovery Gardens!
> 
> This outrageous cost is reduced by more than half, by those who own entire buildings in Discovery Gardens. This is because building owners can do much of the work themselves.
> 
> Of course their buildings are in better condition too.
> 
> There are many areas out of control that could win trust to the punter and sincerely assist a real market beyond speculators.
> 
> I feel the rich lobbyists are so strong that sheikh Mo doesn't see what is happening at ground zero.
> 
> Love Dubai and can see clear paths to a happy and busy market.


I agree with the contents of your post, in general.
For the amount of Service Charges, these are approved by the relevant regulators, like RERA, PCFC or else. They scrutinize the budgeted service charges. However, as the charges levied are seemingly exorbitant, they need to review the budgets deeply prior to approval so as to make the charges a fair deal to the owners.
The stated amount, as service charges for a 1 BR apartment in Discovery Garden is certainly on the very high side. However, there are some other examples, where you find the charges are far more high that the quoted example. For Capital Bay in Business Bay by Damac, the service charges for 2BR are ~ AED 50,000.
*There is a question, whether owners have an option to file an appeal against the decision of a regulator, in this regard.*


----------



## FutureViewDxb

Rustamsalehin said:


> For Capital Bay in Business Bay by Damac, the service charges for 2BR are ~ AED 50,000.


It is shameful and, to me, it is worthy of calling those involved TRAITORS to the 'long term' good of Dubai. 

Afterall, where do you go from these price levels? what next?

Today, to any objective observer, Dubai appears unsustainable. Service charges and cooling bills are potentially, more than double what they should be. 


Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.


----------



## noir-dresses

So we have a situation where investments were literally cocked, and then loaded. Ten grueling minutes echoed the tone for the entire show.

You can't put this genie back in it's bottle anymore.


----------



## True Blue

I was meeting with a group of property investors today who have been in the market since 2004. The sentiment was not positive. Feeling is that prices have returned to the original offer prices of 2005/6 for anything without a view. Mostly anything with a prime view will hold its own in the market but still facing downward pressure.


----------



## noir-dresses

The reason for this is far beyond UAE, or even GCC exhaustion now . 

The writings been on the wall for the longest while, the place is certainly not the gift that keeps giving anymore.

It's impossible to get into why this is all happening without getting into politics, and I promised Gabriel I wouldn't post politics any more. 

It's become supermarket tabloid news, buy the story, and drink the cool aid.


----------



## Scion

Watch Emaar, et al. launch more off plan projects to combat this problem.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

Scion said:


> Watch Emaar, et al. launch more off plan projects to combat this problem.


I can see it now. 500+ meter twin towers as the centrepiece of their own area. The towers will be built to do a little dance every day at noon, get all their energy from side-mounted wind turbines, and also have the world's largest mall at their base. On-site speakers will shout out that the sheik is a really great guy every 15 minutes, so he'll be onboard with the project and make investors think he's backing it with his own money. Scheduled completion by mid-2021.


----------



## noir-dresses

Don't in courage them because they've created a diaperload already.


----------



## hatoG

They don't need encouragement, they are still reckless with the "build it and they will come" model. Unfortunately I think today that model has run its course.


----------



## city of the future

I think it goes along like this:

The world's tallest twin towers built on the world's largest car garage, The building is to host the world's largest LED display as an emaar logo, using the world's most efficient LED bulbs. The buildings will have 4 Michelin star restaurants, the most in the world with emaar branded dinnerware and cutlery. It will have the world's most expensive hotel and the world's largest pool with the world's largest aquarium that has the world's largest fish. The building is LEED double platinum using the world's most advanced cladding. The twin towers will have their own futuristic state-of-the-art pod transport that will connect to the metro. The pods have been tested on mars and a main tender for the pods is currently being finalized. The main contractor is in final negotiation with the developer and is scheduled to start construction tomorrow. Construction will be finished for the grand opening of expo 2020. the building is the final residential opportunity in downtown* 

*the final opportunity as stands by emaar


----------



## siamu maharaj

noir-dresses said:


> We're not just witnessing a high outflow of Western high paying white collar guest workers.
> 
> We are also seeing huge outflows of Indian migrant workers leaving the UAE, and GCC.
> 
> Less people mean less spending power, which doesn't match the over supply glut, and much more to come real estate.
> 
> https://m.timesofindia.com/articles...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


Dubai has lost its charm and companies can't afford to give enormous salaries to Westerners anymore. Sad news keep piling up.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

Kyll.Ing. said:


> Why quote your own post from weeks ago? You made the point clear the first time.


I had just heard that a friend of mine bothered to join the Home Owners Association of a tower he is invested in.

He was written to by the 'board' asking to sign off on the renewal of the Facilities Management contract.

He said shouldn't we get other quotes in (I think standard is 3 quotes) before deciding. 

The developer then stepped in and said, doesn't matter your signature not required. 

It's all a sham really.

The reason I want to emphasise the point is that it does appear to be a totally INSINCERE superficial offering. I mean Everything.

If Dubai cannot prevent profiteering in something as essential as cooling here, or perhaps it encourages it.... if Dubai is tricking us into a mirage of 1st world accountability, only for investors to be f*cked by outrageous service charges- it throws up enough red flags to tell investors "DO NOT DO IT"


----------



## FutureViewDxb

Kyll.Ing. said:


> I can see it now. 500+ meter twin towers as the centrepiece of their own area. The towers will be built to do a little dance every day at noon, get all their energy from side-mounted wind turbines, and also have the world's largest mall at their base. On-site speakers will shout out that the sheik is a really great guy every 15 minutes, so he'll be onboard with the project and make investors think he's backing it with his own money. Scheduled completion by mid-2021.


The scheduled completion date, BRILLIANT :lol:


----------



## chefdude

noir-dresses said:


> So last year 2018 real estate prices where dropping an average of 1.5 percent average per month.
> 
> Now in 2019 we're starting to witness a ten fold increase in falling property prices.
> 
> In April 2019 prices dropped 13 plus percent.
> 
> In May 2019 prices dropped another 14 plus percent.
> 
> In June 2019 prices dropped another 15 plus percent.
> 
> This is turning into a pattern, and the worst is yet to come.
> 
> https://www.zawya.com/mena/en/busin...s_house_prices_down_15_in_June-SNG_149159971/



Pretty sure you have misread that, I think its states down 15.3% in the year to June which is 1.6% month to month basis?


----------



## chefdude

FutureViewDxb said:


> I had just heard that a friend of mine bothered to join the Home Owners Association of a tower he is invested in.
> 
> He was written to by the 'board' asking to sign off on the renewal of the Facilities Management contract.
> 
> He said shouldn't we get other quotes in (I think standard is 3 quotes) before deciding.
> 
> The developer then stepped in and said, doesn't matter your signature not required.
> 
> It's all a sham really.
> 
> The reason I want to emphasise the point is that it does appear to be a totally INSINCERE superficial offering. I mean Everything.
> 
> If Dubai cannot prevent profiteering in something as essential as cooling here, or perhaps it encourages it.... if Dubai is tricking us into a mirage of 1st world accountability, only for investors to be f*cked by outrageous service charges- it throws up enough red flags to tell investors "DO NOT DO IT"



How about the fact that RERA insist that each multi-owner building has a homeowners association board with members that must complete all the registration paperwork, and then refuse to grant the owners associations legal status, at least its been that way for the past 4 years


----------



## noir-dresses

chefdude said:


> Pretty sure you have misread that, I think its states down 15.3% in the year to June which is 1.6% month to month basis?


Probably, try figuring this out here's their April, and May articles,

https://www.zawya.com/mena/en/story/Dubais_house_prices_plunge_145_in_May_report-SNG_146667149?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles

https://www.zawya.com/mena/en/business/story/Dubais_house_prices_down_132_in_April-SNG_144638572?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

noir-dresses said:


> Probably, try figuring this out here's their April, and May articles,


April: 


> Month-on-month, the price decline for April was 1.5% compared to 1.7% in March. House prices in the three months up to March were 4.9% lower than in the previous quarter, it said.


This suggests the 13.2% figure is year-on year.

May: 


> House prices across Dubai plunged by 14.5 per cent in May when compared to same period last year, while it fell by 1.5 per cent month-on-month, according to Dubai House Price Index.


This states it outright.

Besides, if the month-on-month price drops had been 15 %, we'd have been looking at a total drop of almost 40 % since March, which would have been a crisis of such a magnitude that it would have got a lot more attention. 

That being said, 1.5 % month-on-month isn't good either. It means the same 40% price drop over three years instead, (or prices more than halving every four years) which is still a pretty short time. Granted, it takes a little more for the prices to fall so steadily for so many months in a row, so I don't think we can extrapolate much longer than that.


----------



## Freestyler

Acacia vs Mulberry in Dubai Hills which one is better?
I've similar sales offers in both and size is almost same too.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

noir-dresses said:


> We're not just witnessing a high outflow of Western high paying white collar guest workers.
> 
> We are also seeing huge outflows of Indian migrant workers leaving the UAE, and GCC.
> 
> Less people mean less spending power, which doesn't match the over supply glut, and much more to come real estate.
> 
> https://m.timesofindia.com/articles...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


Makes sense why they are leaving: the Indians are seeing an improvement in salaries and standards of living in their home country. Dubai is still an attractive destination for Indians wanting to leave India or ones trying to immigrate to the West, but there is also the issue of not having enough new jobs available for them. The only new ones coming are being hired for construction related to the expo, and even that will slow down next year if the real estate market doesn't pick up again.


----------



## siamu maharaj

People who did dhs 4000 office jobs are probably not coming anymore.


----------



## chefdude

This story is 6 weeks old but has some stark realisations as to where the Dubai property market is heading and it's not pleasant hno:

Anyone on the ground there and not looking through rose-tinted glasses could see this unfolding throughout late 2017 and all of 2018

https://www.ameinfo.com/industry/re...operty-prices-will-continue-to-fall-into-2021


----------



## Rustamsalehin

*Investment firm to acquire 10,000 holiday homes in Dubai*
IBC Group taps Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices to execute transactions worth $5 billion.
https://gulfnews.com/business/prope...quire-10000-holiday-homes-in-dubai-1.65825793


----------



## Rustamsalehin

For its project of Marina 101, Sheffield cannot start paying back to the banks, as Sheffield could not start revenue-generating operations, for whatsoever reason. 
As per the notice of Bank of Baroda, the banks are already in the market to sell their loan asset, as it is not performing. 
The banks have a lien on the Marina 101 (a general provision in loan agreements for the properties), Sheffield cannot sell the property.* In a worst-case scenario, the banks could auction it off, if they did not receive any serious Expression of Interest in response to their call, as notified by Bank of Baroda. *
The new buyer needs to take both, assets and liabilities.
While there is no confirmed information on the progress post invitation of the EOI, I understand that the above scenario could be *a path leading to change of the developer.*
Let us keep our fingers crossed and wait for the developments in this direction.


----------



## siamu maharaj

Rustamsalehin said:


> *Investment firm to acquire 10,000 holiday homes in Dubai*
> IBC Group taps Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices to execute transactions worth $5 billion.
> https://gulfnews.com/business/prope...quire-10000-holiday-homes-in-dubai-1.65825793


Is it related to the news a few months ago that Buffett is investing in Dubai RE?


----------



## Rustamsalehin

siamu maharaj said:


> Is it related to the news a few months ago that Buffett is investing in Dubai RE?


This news and any others that I have seen all talk of the start of *only brokerage service *in Dubai and then in Abu Dhabi by Buffet. 
*No news talks of investment by Buffet in Dubai*. Or I may be missing something.


----------



## siamu maharaj

mdomiati said:


> We need to look at economic fundamentals in order to understand if this is just another downturn where the market will recover in a few years, or if there is a systematic problem that is causing a bleak long term forecast.
> 
> I'm not an expert so I won't claim it's one or the other, but I'm very interested in hearing from experts who can provide an educated analysis coupled with facts.
> 
> That said, can you please explain why you think this is not just another temporary downturn?


Dubai is not a normal economy and its ups and downs cannot be explained the same way a normal country's can be.

In Dubai, 75% of the population can simply pack the bags and leave tomorrow if they want to. Dubai thrives on money coming from abroad. Once that stops the gravy train stops.


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

siamu maharaj said:


> Dubai is not a normal economy and its ups and downs cannot be explained the same way a normal country's can be.
> 
> In Dubai, 75% of the population can simply pack the bags and leave tomorrow if they want to. Dubai thrives on money coming from abroad. Once that stops the gravy train stops.


Even worse...85% can leave tomorrow. And it doesn't take much for that to happen in such an unstable region...especially as the number of enemies increase (Houthis, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Qatar, China, Russia etc.).


----------



## FutureViewDxb

*Justpark.com in Dubai*

Slightly off topic but this will start showing up in Dubai soon.... Justpark.com.

Justpark.com, is a kind of airbnb for parking, backed by Index Ventures (the Venture Capital firm behind Spotify, Dropbox, Skype and many more).

Justpark also won Richard Branson's Pitch to Rich, has Robin klein (google him) on its board, and recently hired Oren Peleg as CEO (he is the ex Global director of Fitness First). It is also about to go international - will cover UAE, Saudi etc.

The company looks set to be a real tech player. For example it was parking 250 cars/day 3 years ago and is doing 30,000 cars/day now. It signed up 180,000 (!) new users in August alone.

It is raising funds now here (although they have hit their initial target they are allowing for overfunding). 

They are raising via crowdcube.com in order to convert investors to customers which works. So if you fancy an 'in' before you start seeing the app all over Dubai take a look.

https://www.crowdcube.com/companies/justpark-1/pitches/bk7Aeb

The reason I think this concept will work in the UAE (others have tried but with out proper money behind them), is that there is so much spare capacity and under utilised space.

If they have tied up with the RTA it is game, set and match anyway ( like uber).


----------



## mdomiati

siamu maharaj said:


> Dubai is not a normal economy and its ups and downs cannot be explained the same way a normal country's can be.
> 
> In Dubai, 75% of the population can simply pack the bags and leave tomorrow if they want to. Dubai thrives on money coming from abroad. Once that stops the gravy train stops.


Regardless of whether it's a normal economy or not, it is an economy that can be analyzed.

I don't like all the doom and gloom posts because all they do is fear mongering. If you think Dubai is screwed for the long term, please explain why.

Dubai has flourished in the past because they got some things right, and they can keep flourishing with the right formula.

Things are slow right now, but that doesn't mean that it will remain like this forever.


----------



## noir-dresses

mdomiati said:


> Regardless of whether it's a normal economy or not, it is an economy that can be analyzed.
> 
> I don't like all the doom and gloom posts because all they do is fear mongering. If you think Dubai is screwed for the long term, please explain why.
> 
> Dubai has flourished in the past because they got some things right, and they can keep flourishing with the right formula.
> 
> Things are slow right now, but that doesn't mean that it will remain like this forever.


If your regarding to real estate, and rental prices tanking as doom and gloom then I'll bring you back to reality. I avoid getting into this topic, but since you insist let's get into it. 

Doom and gloom is when the city and country of your investment choice needs the American military to defend it with patriots because Mr. Salami accoss the pond has uncovered how soft the underbelly of it's apponents crown jewels are, and how ineffective the local militaries are of defending to a superior, and determined adversary. Be sure your real doom and gloom won't be sending Trump any love letters any time soon. Just imagine what the economy would really be like with zero oil, and gas revenue. Now that's real life doom and gloom, and that has a high probability of happening so price that into your equation. 

Now back to topic of ordinary every day ups, and downs in the real estate and property market.


----------



## siamu maharaj

mdomiati said:


> Regardless of whether it's a normal economy or not, it is an economy that can be analyzed.
> 
> I don't like all the doom and gloom posts because all they do is fear mongering. If you think Dubai is screwed for the long term, please explain why.
> 
> Dubai has flourished in the past because they got some things right, and they can keep flourishing with the right formula.
> 
> Things are slow right now, but that doesn't mean that it will remain like this forever.


It can be analyzed but the model you're using to analyze it doesn't fit Dubai. You're using a thermometer to measure length. Doesn't work.


----------



## Hamad-

noir-dresses said:


> If your regarding to real estate, and rental prices tanking as doom and gloom then I'll bring you back to reality. I avoid getting into this topic, but since you insist let's get into it.
> 
> Doom and gloom is when the city and country of your investment choice needs the American military to defend it with patriots because Mr. Salami accoss the pond has uncovered how soft the underbelly of it's apponents crown jewels are, and how ineffective the local militaries are of defending to a superior, and determined adversary. Be sure your real doom and gloom won't be sending Trump any love letters any time soon. Just imagine what the economy would really be like with zero oil, and gas revenue. Now that's real life doom and gloom, and that has a high probability of happening so price that into your equation.
> 
> Now back to topic of ordinary every day ups, and downs in the real estate and property market.


Hhhh 

Dubai keep booming with all regions problem. Same thing had been said during : 
Iran revolution 1979 
Iraq-iran war 1981-1987 
Soviet afgan war 1981 
Iraq-Kuwait war 1991 
Iraq war 2003 
America-afgan 2001 
Israel-lebenon 2006 
Arab spring 2011.


----------



## Impy

*Dubai sees 134% increase in property deals from September 2*

https://gulfnews.com/business/prope...in-property-deals-from-september-2-1.66645328


----------



## mdomiati

siamu maharaj said:


> It can be analyzed but the model you're using to analyze it doesn't fit Dubai. You're using a thermometer to measure length. Doesn't work.


You're still not providing a convincing argument for your claim of a negative long term outlook.


----------



## chefdude

mdomiati said:


> You're still not providing a convincing argument for your claim of a negative long term outlook.


Maybe this will help flesh out the problems

https://www.ameinfo.com/industry/re...operty-prices-will-continue-to-fall-into-2021


----------



## mdomiati

chefdude said:


> Maybe this will help flesh out the problems
> 
> https://www.ameinfo.com/industry/re...operty-prices-will-continue-to-fall-into-2021


The author makes some good points that can explain the current slump, but there's no long term forecast in the article (5 years, 10 years, 20 years from now). That's the point that I was making to the other posters. They're saying that it's the end of the world and prices will never go up again without providing any explanation or evidence, but all the information available points to a market downturn that will eventually recover in a couple of years.


----------



## siamu maharaj

Exactly what available information points to prices recovering in 2 years? Can you share that information with us?


----------



## chefdude

I'm not trying to bash Dubai, I am just being realistic when I say a recovery is extremely unlikely to happen and there is little in the pipeline to halt the property slump in fact what is in the pipeline is only going to accelerate the problem. It has been spelt out numerous times O V E R S U P P L Y! most markets are supply and demand, there is tiny demand these days and huge supply and with the endless building projects that only gets worse.

There are ghost town areas of Dubai, and yet they still keep building ridiculous amounts of new units. Prices in all other areas of life are out of control so expats there don't want to spend they want to cut costs. 

And the thing that I hated the most when I lived there, the never-ending fiddling with procedures and regulations. Businesses hate change and endless red tape but each time you need to do something like visa, sponsorship basically anything all you ever get from the person behind the official desk, when you think you have all the necessary documents, is "The rules have changed" hno: and with it an inevitable increase in fees.

I know in just my circles over 50% of the expats that were there have given up and left a statistic I can guarantee is repeated all over the UAE. People are leaving and businesses are being squeezed, that is not an environment that is going to promote growth. 

You will never hear bad news in Dubai though so you have to figure things out for yourself and when you talk to the people you meet each day.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

siamu maharaj said:


> Exactly what available information points to prices recovering in 2 years? Can you share that information with us?


Taking into account the imprecise meaning of the term "a couple", I can see where he's coming from. The article pointed out that Dubai is in a slump because not as many foreigners are coming to buy property there, owning to economic problems in their home countries. With the Dirham being pegged to the dollar, the UAE might be too expensive to invest in given the current situation. Many of the reasons given for Dubai's slump can be traced back to economic slumps elsewhere, that Dubai has little influence over. 

For the downfall to be permanent, something permanent needs to have happened. A major change in policy, or a competitor city gaining footing it never had before, or the collapse of some vital system or other. Nothing of the sort seems to have happened. Various factors just happened to align in disadvantageous ways for Dubai: A strong dollar, a weak Russian/Pakistani/Indian economy, low oil prices giving neighbouring countries less purchasing power, etc. Those are factors that swing back and forth all the time. Does anything suggest they won't swing back in Dubai's favour before long?

Then again, if Dubai's property market is proving to be this vulnerable to factors completely outside Dubai's control, that revelation might be a permanent bad thing in itself. Who would invest in a city that could do everyhing in its power right, and yet see a 15% year-on-year decline in property prices for years at a time?


----------



## siamu maharaj

Kyll.Ing. said:


> Taking into account the imprecise meaning of the term "a couple", I can see where he's coming from. The article pointed out that Dubai is in a slump because not as many foreigners are coming to buy property there, owning to economic problems in their home countries. With the Dirham being pegged to the dollar, the UAE might be too expensive to invest in given the current situation. Many of the reasons given for Dubai's slump can be traced back to economic slumps elsewhere, that Dubai has little influence over.
> 
> For the downfall to be permanent, something permanent needs to have happened. A major change in policy, or a competitor city gaining footing it never had before, or the collapse of some vital system or other. Nothing of the sort seems to have happened. Various factors just happened to align in disadvantageous ways for Dubai: A strong dollar, a weak Russian/Pakistani/Indian economy, low oil prices giving neighbouring countries less purchasing power, etc. Those are factors that swing back and forth all the time. Does anything suggest they won't swing back in Dubai's favour before long?
> 
> Then again, if Dubai's property market is proving to be this vulnerable to factors completely outside Dubai's control, that revelation might be a permanent bad thing in itself. Who would invest in a city that could do everyhing in its power right, and yet see a 15% year-on-year decline in property prices for years at a time?


Sure things could swing in Dubai's favour. But there's nothing I see today to suggest that.

As a Pakistani I can tell you that Dubai has lost that image that it once did. I am not even sure what Dubai can do to re-build that. I know countless educated Pakistani leaving Dubai, but I literally don't know a single educated Pakistani who moved there in the last 5 years. Before that every day a friend of mine would move there. OTOH, every other day, I find another friend in Dubai trying to move to Canada.

As a place for investment, I can't recall many Pakistanis lining up to invest there. For illegal money, London has now become the place of choice to park it. Even Canada. Every rich Pakistani now asks one family member to spend some years in Canada and get citizenship so they can use him to funnel money there. Many Pakistanis are even considering Qatar over Dubai. And 

Dubai got its reputation on "bling", but that bling don't last for long.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

It is all about oversupply.

When Saba Tower was the only office tower standing in JLT, rents were 225 aed per square foot. The DMCC was not yet formed, roads weren't even ready, and the 10 year visa hadn't been press released yet. 

External factors, like the rupee, who was bombing who, how blingy Dubai was perceived, DID NOT MATTER.

Today, after massive MASSIVE over supply, you are lucky if you can get one third of that rent in Saba Tower.... it's all about oversupply.

In property, Dubai, over a decade, has taken 3 Dirham from you and left you with just 1 Dirham, the exact opposite is true in many other countries. 

Print a bucket load of money and you massively devalue your own currency, it is same same for property.

There is an effort to distract us from this fact, it really is all about oversupply, and the fact that Dubai will keep building - despite new committees bandied about by the GulfNews..... it is a terminal trend because Dubai cannot actually stop over supply.

_Allow me to be more clear just how devastating Dubai's oversupply had been to many of us>>>>>>> We all started with 3 Dirhams around the globe all those years ago - the Dubai investor now has 1 Dirham, while our European and US friends now have 6 Dirhams. Oversupply has left the Dubai investor an embarrassing poor cousin, pushing about Gulf News press releases as justification for being duped, hoping our families forgive us<<<<<<<<_ (or something like that  )


----------



## noir-dresses

I would also like to express that I love Dubai, always did, and always will. The place will always hold a warm place in my heart. Let's not confuse positive criticism to make life, and investment more better, with not liking Dubai. I sometimes wonder if it's only me, or a phase I'm going threw thinking WTF happened to the Dubai I knew, and feel in love with??? Then when I talk to a lot of people who spent time there, and moved on I realized they have the same feelings, thoughts, and experiences as me. I'm not hear to offend anyone, nor rile, but just see, analyze, chat about property in their real perspective good, or bad. 
Nobody likes to lose money/capital, nor have extended waiting for completion , and be delayed, and especially cheated. 

After all I did spend a lot of time there with dear friends, and family who I will never forget not to mention investing in real estate, and work related activities.

My two cents is I don't see anything at the moment that will bottom out the market, and bring it back to life again , but what's to say it won't? 

"Tomorrow is another day" 

At the moment honestly let there be peace, wisdom, compassion, good health, happiness, and prosperity.


----------



## Scion

The general sentiment I got from reading elsewhere is that construction is still happening at the sites that we can see with progress, but payment is not happening at a lot of those places, hence the frequent occurence of sites suddenly going on hold and abandoned.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

*What went wrong*

Again, despite the regional wars and all the external problems Dubai faces, had Saba Tower not been subject to MASSIVE OVERSUPPLY, rents would not be THREE TIMES LOWER than they were TEN YEARS AGO. Do we all agree with that?

This game of blaming the Russian Rouble, blaming the Yemen war, or blaming the oil glut is secondary. These things only intensified the effects of MASSIVE OVERSUPPLY.

Dubai Govt is a developer through and through, and does what all developers do>>>> it comes up with all sorts of hypotheticals, reasons and long twisted arguments to keep building. Just like every developer in Europe. In fact it might even come up with a committee to appear to restrict development to keep developing and selling.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

*What can Dubai do from here?*

*Lower lending rates* and introduce interest only life time mortgages. In the UK I can buy a million Dirham apartment with an I.O. mortgage costing me 1,600 aed per month - here the best I can do is a traditional mortgage costing 
me around 6,000 per month all in. Enable people to actually buy....

*Genuinely restrict development*. Make the Planning Authority incorruptible- remember that all developers are going to want to build ALWAYS!! so you are going to have to do much more than put Emaar and Nakheel in a room together.

*Sort out the greedy fat cats sitting on the utility companies* Good for you that you have a captive audience that NEEDS cooling to survive here. I am glad this is so profitable for you, *but* the adverse affect is that these utility companies are proving the case that Dubai is COMPLETELY unsustainable. Just a few more price rises and cooling will be a luxury in a country where it is a NECESSITY. Disgusting honestly.

*Destroy all service charge profiteering*- It is also unsustainable, I know it's easy money, but it crushes yields which flattens property prices. It is also SO OBVIOUS by comparisons, that it fuels the Dubai is corrupt lobby nicely. Trust is a powerful weapon.


----------



## Rider

propertypimp said:


> But how can they hold you liable for this debt? If you ignore them and don't pay up.. will they impose a travel ban or something?


I still have two other units and if I try and sell one it wouldn't surprise me if they were able to withold money at the point the sale goes through the Land Department. Their database will surely have owner details (name, passport info) attached to the deeds. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they are chasing other investors who bought off plan who have since long gone and have no other investments.


----------



## propertypimp

Rider said:


> I still have two other units and if I try and sell one it wouldn't surprise me if they were able to withold money at the point the sale goes through the Land Department. Their database will surely have owner details (name, passport info) attached to the deeds.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if they are chasing other investors who bought off plan who have since long gone and have no other investments.


Are the 2 units with select? In that case they will probably hold your NOC to sell for ransom until you pay. Personally, I wouldnt pay until I have to sell.


----------



## Rider

propertypimp said:


> Are the 2 units with select? In that case they will probably hold your NOC to sell for ransom until you pay. Personally, I wouldnt pay until I have to sell.


No, I have no units with Select. The thing is I actually have nothing to pay. I paid my 1% back in 2008 but that payment wasn't forwarded to the LD at the time. I don't know the ins and outs but either the process is broken or something untoward has gone on.


----------



## Rustamsalehin

Rider said:


> No, I have no units with Select. The thing is I actually have nothing to pay. I paid my 1% back in 2008 but that payment wasn't forwarded to the LD at the time. I don't know the ins and outs but either the process is broken or something untoward has gone on.


Under the circumstances stated by you, are not the following actions advisable:
1.	Inform DLD of your payment to the Select in 2008 and provide evidence thereof.
2.	Request DLD to collect the amount from the Select.
3.	Request DLD to help you recover the interest on the amount that the Select has been holding since 2008 and has been enjoying interest on it.
4.	Lodge a claim with the Select for the interest amount. The applicable percentage of the interest can be the same as stated in SPA for the late payment.


----------



## Rider

Rustamsalehin said:


> Under the circumstances stated by you, are not the following actions advisable:
> 1.	Inform DLD of your payment to the Select in 2008 and provide evidence thereof.
> 2.	Request DLD to collect the amount from the Select.
> 3.	Request DLD to help you recover the interest on the amount that the Select has been holding since 2008 and has been enjoying interest on it.
> 4.	Lodge a claim with the Select for the interest amount. The applicable percentage of the interest can be the same as stated in SPA for the late payment.


Numbers 1 and 2 have already been done. 3 and 4 look valid but I honestly don't have the time and inclination to pursue. If I had faith in the process and the parties involved then I might but I fear it would be a painful and drawn out exercise.


----------



## JLT INVESTOR

I rented out my one bed 880 sq feet apartment in JLT for two years for 68,000 AEDs per annum. The tenant vacated in August last year. The apartment remained vacant for six months and now I have rented it out for 46,000 aeds. Things must be very bad at present?


----------



## propertypimp

Rustamsalehin said:


> Emaar has been divesting hospitality-related assets.
> In 2018, it disposed of five hospitality assets, which were sold to Abu Dhabi National Hotels.
> It is now selling the observation decks of the Burj Khalifa, which is a tourist attraction.
> These are happening while it is anticipated that Expo 2020 will cause a big boost to the hospitality sector in Dubai during the duration of the expo and thereafter.
> These are two contradictory signals for investors in the hospitality sector.
> Can anyone highlight, if I am missing something in my observations?


I read in today's news that they are close to selling their district cooling business. So much for long term.


----------



## Rustamsalehin

*More job cuts at UAE firms amid slow business environment: IHS Markit*
Latest PMI says employment 'fell at one of strongest rates on record' in January
Job opportunities in the UAE dwindled significantly in the beginning of the year, as companies shed jobs and business conditions in the non-oil private sector deteriorated for the first time in 10 years, the latest data showed.
https://www.zawya.com/mena/en/econo...s_environment_IHS_Markit-ZAWYA20200206062030/


----------



## Rider

Crikey things sound pretty gloomy on here. I saw that Dubai 2020 will last for almost six months from this October. Is there an expectation that this will provide the property market with a much needed shot in the arm? Does anyone think the Government are planning any show stopping announcements/incentives to investors/companies?


----------



## propertypimp

JLT INVESTOR said:


> I rented out my one bed 880 sq feet apartment in JLT for two years for 68,000 AEDs per annum. The tenant vacated in August last year. The apartment remained vacant for six months and now I have rented it out for 46,000 aeds. Things must be very bad at present?


-30% seems to be the magic number for sales and rentals. At least there aren't many new developments within JLT and immediate surroundings. It's worse in the likes of Dubailand and JVC were buildings are just popping up. Tenants are migrating to newer and bigger space.


----------



## UAE Investor

I noticed that apartment prices a dropping but villa prices seem to be rising?


----------



## tony501

*rising prices*



UAE Investor said:


> I noticed that apartment prices a dropping but villa prices seem to be rising?


Fewer workers but more tax evaders, money launderers, and drug lords. Poor getting screwed:cheers:


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Quiet malls, empty streets: Coronavirus fears dampen Dubai's peak tourist season


https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/quiet-dubai-malls-coronavirus-wuhan-china-tourism

How true is this article?? Quite scary for Dubai's big year which they had so much hope, expectation and made huge investments for...


----------



## Rustamsalehin

*"What will be the legacy of Dubai Expo 2020?"- Oxford Business Group*
January 30, 2020
……….*REAL ESTATE*: Following a couple of unremarkable years, growth in the real estate sector began to pick up in 2018, increasing by 7%, according to the Dubai Land Department. Despite certain analysts’ projections that growth would remain at around 6% to 10% in 2019-20, oversupply of residential units has put strains on the industry, with various factors including overconfidence in demand, increased competition and a slowing global economy leading some developers to slow their operations or decrease the number of new launches. However, according to Sajwani, demand remains robust, with total unit sales across the sector expected to reach between 25,000 and 30,000 in 2019.
Nevertheless, with the imbalance between supply and demand expected to continue driving prices down in the short to medium term, the future of the industry will likely be determined by the corrective actions taken. “Improved efficiency in the market, driven by the fast flow of information resulting from wider use of digital channels, has enabled investors and buyers to leverage the current market dynamic to bring down prices. An oversupply of a mere 3-4% today can result in a 30-40% drop in prices, as the balance of power moves from developers to consumers,” Sajwani said.
Beyond: A number of measures are in motion to find an equilibrium between supply and demand, including the creation of the higher committee for real estate planning, headed by Sheikh Maktoum bin Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, and individual companies’ engagement to ease new development. While the impact of these measures remains to be seen, Sajwani believes that slowing down construction for approximately 14 to 18 months would effectively mitigate any additional effects on the industry.
Expo 2020’s main contribution to the property market is that it will enable Dubai to showcase its potential to foreign investors, especially those coming from Asia and Africa. Referencing this new trend, Sajwani said, “With over 1.3bn people – 200m of whom can afford to travel abroad – China is one of the markets that has had limited exposure to Dubai’s investment potential. In this context, Expo will showcase Dubai’s potential and attractiveness to new investors which, together with recent changes in visa requirements, should bolster demand.”
https://www.ameinfo.com/industry/real-estate/what-will-be-the-legacy-of-dubai-expo-2020


----------



## EmiratesAirline380

Dubai’s jobs vanish at the fastest pace in a decade

Business growth in Dubai stalled while jobs disappeared at the fastest pace in a decade, as per IHS Markit.

Operating conditions in Dubai’s non-oil private sector worsened in January for a third straight month to the lowest level in nearly four years, according to IHS Markit. Its Purchasing Managers’ Index dropped to 50.6, barely above the threshold that separates growth from contraction. Wholesale and retail, as well as construction, slipped below the no-change mark, IHS Markit said.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


----------



## chefdude

Abu Dhabi Islamic Bank is seeking to save about AED500 million ($136 million) by cutting jobs and closing branches as sluggish economic growth weighs on the finance industry. 

ADIB joins competitors such as First Abu Dhabi Bank and Emirates NBD in cutting jobs. The UAE economy is coming under pressure from regional geopolitical tensions and weak domestic demand. In Dubai, business growth stalled, while jobs disappeared at the fastest pace in at least a decade in the latest sign of strain on the Middle East’s commercial hub. 

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/ban...ank-said-to-seek-136m-savings-by-cutting-jobs


----------



## Rustamsalehin

*Dubai property prices will fall further in 2020; "recovery will take a long time"
Price fall likely to beat the bottom of the previous slump in 2010-2011 - S&P*
https://www.zawya.com/mena/en/wealt...ry_will_take_a_long_time-ZAWYA20200219103635/ 

19 FEBRUARY, 2020
With a massive guaranteed oversupply of properties and top developers taking losses in 2019, real estate prices this year could fall another 5 to 10 percent.
S&P Global ratings said for 2020, it could see another a potential decline of 5 to 10 percent, a stress case that the ratings agency had outlined last year for 2020.
"We are seeing prices approach a level which we saw at the bottom of the previous cycle in 2010-2011, and when you adjust for inflation and incentives that you get when you buy off-plan products, it is probably even lower," Sapna Jagtiani, Associate Director, Corporate Ratings, S&P Global Ratings said.


----------



## UAE Investor

Rustamsalehin said:


> *Dubai property prices will fall further in 2020; "recovery will take a long time"
> Price fall likely to beat the bottom of the previous slump in 2010-2011 - S&P*
> https://www.zawya.com/mena/en/wealt...ry_will_take_a_long_time-ZAWYA20200219103635/
> 
> 19 FEBRUARY, 2020
> With a massive guaranteed oversupply of properties and top developers taking losses in 2019, real estate prices this year could fall another 5 to 10 percent.
> S&P Global ratings said for 2020, it could see another a potential decline of 5 to 10 percent, a stress case that the ratings agency had outlined last year for 2020.
> "We are seeing prices approach a level which we saw at the bottom of the previous cycle in 2010-2011, and when you adjust for inflation and incentives that you get when you buy off-plan products, it is probably even lower," Sapna Jagtiani, Associate Director, Corporate Ratings, S&P Global Ratings said.


Great news,better to see that drop first before Entering the market ?

:cheers:


----------



## 234sale

UAE Investor said:


> Great news,better to see that drop first before intering the market ?
> 
> :cheers:


For all that know me,, personally I said 2020 was going to be start of the issues.. I'm struggling at the moment to find purpose.. But I won't be returning to Dubai to find it...


----------



## pierremesso

*Retroactive tax*

Hi guys,

I purchased a hotel apartment at Damac Majestine in 2015. The handover date was supposed to be in 2017 but it was 1 year delayed. Back then it was said to be a hotel apartment and it would be run as a hotel. None of anything happened. Damac has been, least to say, the biggest liers of pretty much everything and anything.

Two weeks ago I got a phone call from a sales man at Damac. He said we had a chance to convert our contract to instead be a "Permitted use: residental" instead of hotel apartment or we would be facing the 5% tax that was implemented in 2018. He said Damac wanted to help their clients out and have been negotiating with DLD etc. to prevent the buyers from being forced to pay this tax. As mentioned, I purchased in 2015 long before any talks about tax. But according to Damac it's regardless of when I purchased but the follow the time of handover, so all from 2018 would be paying the tax if they don't convert and it's regardless if they were delayed and gave hand over in 2018 instead of 2017. Of course all of the talks and negotiations with DLD and tax authorities were off the record.

He said he would send the original papers to sign and it was very hurry because deadline had already passed but he would fix it anyway.

Today he called again and stressed to see if I had signed and sent the contract and in our discussion he mentioned that 88% had already converted.

So....my guts say there's some big bullshit over this. How can DLD and government claim tax for purchases that was done in 2015 retroactively? This would harm the investments from companies cause the whole thing would be so unsecure. I get the feeling that Damac is benefiting from something so they try to make everybody convert or they are the ones that actually should be paying the taxes and now they try to get it our from the buyers instead.

Anybody has knowledge or input regarding this would be much appreciated.

PS. I don't live in Dubai and therefore I have a bit hard to check things more carefully.


----------



## 7tidesjlt

Guys checkout the below link ... it’s Airolink website have seven jlt in project list. What is indicates ?
Is DLD really showing correct status ? If yes then why airolink is showing wrong information ?
It is confusing ..

link:Projects | Airolink


----------



## rakcity

7tidesjlt said:


> Guys checkout the below link ... it’s Airolink website have seven jlt in project list. What is indicates ?
> Is DLD really showing correct status ? If yes then why airolink is showing wrong information ?
> It is confusing ..
> 
> link:Projects | Airolink


That's been on there for several months. Who knows how many of those computer generated images on the contractor's website are actually under construction? 

I trust the status on the Dubai Land Department more than a contractor. The DLD wouldn't put a project as 'pending cancellation' unless they had a good reason.


----------



## noir-dresses

Dubai’s DIB Slumps After Disclosing $541 Million of NMC Exposure - BNN Bloomberg







www.bnnbloomberg.ca





UAE banks starting to show weakness due to financial exposure, much more to come.


----------



## RichardLR

Regarding the overall Dubai market:

-Everyone expected 2020 to be tough, with so much supply coming online. Some supply might now slip to future years, which unfortunately would prolong the pain. I would much prefer 2020 to be the year where everything gets dumped on the market and we hit bottom so I hope that as much as possible is completed in 2020. 

-There are a lot of investors waiting to see the bottom, they've been holding fire and staying on the sidelines waiting for a clear sign. This is how all markets work when they are going down, most people wait to buy until they see some upswing. Bottom-catchers are a smaller percentage of investors.

-The supply for 2023, 2024 was already pretty light. New launches had dried up in the 2nd half of 2019 and are now totally dead. The launches that have occurred are small buildings with less units (compare Burj Crown to Address Fountain Views as an example). If construction continues roughly on schedule, then there will be a period in a few years where there is very little new supply. 

-The government has intervened in the Real Estate market. The boom and bust model is not very attractive to them. Remember that everything in Dubai is new. Their handling of the economy included. Burning investors over and over is not attractive or long-term thinking. Cancelled projects and megaprojecs is not cool. I predict that once we do hit bottom, the government will try to manage the market to behave like most developed markets in the world: predictable and consistent price growth of around 5% per year over the long-term. But managed even better because they have much more control than most governments. 

-That would mean no more flooding the market with launches in the good times, and no more cancelling projects because you got over-stretched. 

I already invested last year and so was early. And I actually want to use the apartment when it's ready (Elie Saab). So I do have a vested interest. But I like to think I did apply some logical thinking before making the decision to buy  If anyone has a different opinion of how things will go, I'd be interested to hear.


----------



## noir-dresses

UAE companies declare exposure to NMC Health as administration looms


Banking groups have reported exposure worth more than Dh8bn




www.thenational.ae





More bank exposure causing financial distress. 

Emaar sells cooling unit shares downtown , plus CEO takes a 100 percent salary cut. Liquidity seems to be a problem from what I see. 

Twenty thousand Pakistanis line up outside of embassy wanting to go home. India says they won't repatriate their citizens for now. This seems like a lot of out of work people not being to aff being in UAE and not wanting, but needing to get out. 

I'm also hearing UAE Exchange are having problems.


----------



## chefdude

noir-dresses said:


> UAE companies declare exposure to NMC Health as administration looms
> 
> 
> Banking groups have reported exposure worth more than Dh8bn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thenational.ae
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More bank exposure causing financial distress.
> 
> Emaar sells cooling unit shares downtown , plus CEO takes a 100 percent salary cut. Liquidity seems to be a problem from what I see.
> 
> Twenty thousand Pakistanis line up outside of embassy wanting to go home. India says they won't repatriate their citizens for now. This seems like a lot of out of work people not being to aff being in UAE and not wanting, but needing to get out.
> 
> I'm also hearing UAE Exchange are having problems.


Problems are just piling up, and all non-core workers are now having to stay at home for a minimum of 2 weeks.
Can see many businesses shutting down for good which is not good news for the rental sector.
Expo was supposed to be the Ace up their sleeve but with that postponed tourism will be almost non-existent for 2020.
Perfect storm is brewing over the UAE and I would expect prices to drop by another 30 - 40 % as people try to get out the exit


----------



## noir-dresses

chefdude said:


> Problems are just piling up, and all non-core workers are now having to stay at home for a minimum of 2 weeks.
> Can see many businesses shutting down for good which is not good news for the rental sector.
> Expo was supposed to be the Ace up their sleeve but with that postponed tourism will be almost non-existent for 2020.
> Perfect storm is brewing over the UAE and I would expect prices to drop by another 30 - 40 % as people try to get out the exit


When the benchmark Dubai government owned Emaar with all their benefits, and connections see the CEO take a 100 percent pay cut, employees across the board who are fortunate enough to still have a job will have a 50 percent pay cut. Today's Emaar stock price hovered around 2.2 AED, and EmaarMalls stock at around 1 AED. Emaar selling cooling assets in a abnormally hot climate environment downtown then you know it's bad. 

Now this is Emaar, imagine how the others must be doing who don't have their benefits. 

With everything in Dubai at a standstill not generating enough cash flow, but burning reserves in an already over leveraged bubble who most likely can't make their margin calls. If this continues I wouldn't be surprised Abu Dhabi will just buy/bailout Dubai forever, and just Nationalize everything for cents on the dollar.


----------



## View2

Tue 7 Apr 2020 05:22 PM
*Alabbar hits back at 'lies and nonsense' over claims Emaar projects suspended due to coronavirus*
Emaar chairman says all sites continue to operate


----------



## noir-dresses

The least of Emaars problems should be if it's construction sites are temporarily suspended due to coronavirus until there's a safe working environment to work in. 

Logic, and data show quarantine, social distancing, and hygiene are helpful not to let the virus spread out of control over whelping any countries health care system. 

The building sites aren't going to go anywhere so quarantine the construction in a healthy work environment. 

As long as there are infected nothing will go forward including transportation/airline's, retail, hotels, tourism, logistics, trade shows, events, sporting, finance, etc, etc you name it. 

It's hard everywhere managing coronavirus because it's a difficult task. Getting things back to normal will need to be managed very, very carefully.


----------



## rakcity

It looks like the government have inspected the Seven City site and provided a report. Inspection date: 2nd April 2020.

You can view this here: Dubai Land Department - Project Status (Mashrooi)

On 'Status' click 'Under cancellation' and then click 'Apply'.

Then search for 'Seven City' and the project will come up. You can then view 'Inspection Details' and download the latest report from the Government of Dubai.

_



INSEPCTION NOTES At the time of inspection the following were found : *Project is not in progress. No construction activity progressing at site. No construction activity done since last inspection.* Demolishing done for the structure built previously due to design change. Site mobilization is partly done. Excavation, shoring and piling works substantially completed. Foundation and retaining wall partly done.

Click to expand...

_For reference, the last inspection was completed on the 7th November 2019, 5 months ago.

In fact, if you go all the way back to the first Government of Dubai inspection, from the 19th February 2019 (14 months ago), very little has actually changed on the site.


----------



## hubin80

Strange, I opened the site as described and it states "Status: Active". In the last report, it says "Progress Status Enabling Works - On Hold".

So is the project under cancellation, on hold, or active??



rakcity said:


> It looks like the government have inspected the Seven City site and provided a report. Inspection date: 2nd April 2020.
> 
> You can view this here: Dubai Land Department - Project Status (Mashrooi)
> 
> On 'Status' click 'Under cancellation' and then click 'Apply'.
> 
> Then search for 'Seven City' and the project will come up. You can then view 'Inspection Details' and download the latest report from the Government of Dubai.
> 
> 
> 
> For reference, the last inspection was completed on the 7th November 2019, 5 months ago.
> 
> In fact, if you go all the way back to the first Government of Dubai inspection, from the 19th February 2019 (14 months ago), very little has actually changed on the site.


----------



## rakcity

hubin80 said:


> Strange, I opened the site as described and it states "Status: Active". In the last report, it says "Progress Status Enabling Works - On Hold".
> 
> So is the project under cancellation, on hold, or active??


... and yet, it cannot be found on the DLD website if you look for Active projects - it's only listed as the projects that are 'Under cancellation'.

The first thing that the inspector states is that this project is not in progress.

It's definitely not Active and hasn't been for 14 months. So it's either currently on hold or under cancellation. I wonder how long a project can be 'on hold' before it must ultimately be 'cancelled' or if Seven Tides can continue to keep us in limbo?


----------



## chefdude

rakcity said:


> ... and yet, it cannot be found on the DLD website if you look for Active projects - it's only listed as the projects that are 'Under cancellation'.
> 
> The first thing that the inspector states is that this project is not in progress.
> 
> It's definitely not Active and hasn't been for 14 months. So it's either currently on hold or under cancellation. I wonder how long a project can be 'on hold' before it must ultimately be 'cancelled' or if Seven Tides can continue to keep us in limbo?


I can understand your frustration, that plot Z in JLT must be the unluckiest in all Dubai as its the second big project that has fallen flat on its face. Anantara did nothing beyond the podium for about 10 years before seventides took over. This is one of the perils of off-plan investing in Dubai and why anyone in this forum would have advised you against taking that route. However, the project already has its own thread under JLT section and this personal property investment is about all of Dubai not just one project.

Suggest you move your conversation to the appropriate location









#UNDER C: SEVEN CITY JLT, ?m, ?F, Res


Conditional active means the plans/information submitted to DLD on the last inspection were incomplete or not fully approved.




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## Sevenblah

Hey guys,

And it's a good question above, does anyone have answer to that ?
"How long a developer keep stretching fall stories when not an inch has moved on site for around 10 months now. When can dld or rera can knock on their doors ?

I know spa says upto one year after the completion date, rera wont cancel the project or nothing can Be done

But situation is different here. What about the milestone incompletion penalties? Isnt rera supposed to put that on seven tides ?

I condemn seven tides sales team on highest level, even on a recent call they are assuring no we wont cancel and that they continue to sell units. What are they selling? I phones?


----------



## Sevenblah

Hey guys,

And it's a good question above, does anyone have answer to that ?
"How long a developer keep stretching fall stories when not an inch has moved on site for around 10 months now. When can dld or rera can knock on their doors ?

I know spa says upto one year after the completion date, rera wont cancel the project or nothing can Be done

But situation is different here. What about the milestone incompletion penalties? Isnt rera supposed to put that on seven tides ?

I condemn seven tides sales team on highest level, even on a recent call they are assuring no we wont cancel and that they continue to sell units. What are they selling? I phones?


----------



## delalande27

Sevenblah said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> And it's a good question above, does anyone have answer to that ?
> "How long a developer keep stretching fall stories when not an inch has moved on site for around 10 months now. When can dld or rera can knock on their doors ?
> 
> I know spa says upto one year after the completion date, rera wont cancel the project or nothing can Be done
> 
> But situation is different here. What about the milestone incompletion penalties? Isnt rera supposed to put that on seven tides ?
> 
> I condemn seven tides sales team on highest level, even on a recent call they are assuring no we wont cancel and that they continue to sell units. What are they selling? I phones?


Lockdown in dubai could be use as an excuse to delay project. ( smaller workforce, renegociation of contracts ).

What was the payment plan for this property ? Is payment linked to milestone ?


----------



## Sevenblah

Yes its linked to milestones

The issue is till what time developer keeps saying no no we will build it and yet never moves an inch. I understand the max is one year plus the project handover date, but that means end of 2022.

Means developer will just kill time and wont cancel before that before its deemed cancel at end of 2022 ?

Plus my biggest fear is seven tides asks us to pump more money by building another 20% and then again sleeps for a good time.

Messed up


----------



## delalande27

Sevenblah said:


> Yes its linked to milestones
> 
> The issue is till what time developer keeps saying no no we will build it and yet never moves an inch. I understand the max is one year plus the project handover date, but that means end of 2022.
> 
> Means developer will just kill time and wont cancel before that before its deemed cancel at end of 2022 ?
> 
> Plus my biggest fear is seven tides asks us to pump more money by building another 20% and then again sleeps for a good time.
> 
> Messed up


 Could be interesting to know if SEVEN PALM is still under construction ( seven tides project on the palm close to nakheel mall ). Are they still active in dubai ?


----------



## KolVicAr

noir-dresses said:


> The least of Emaars problems should be if it's construction sites are temporarily suspended due to coronavirus until there's a safe working environment to work in.
> 
> Logic, and data show quarantine, social distancing, and hygiene are helpful not to let the virus spread out of control over whelping any countries health care system.
> 
> The building sites aren't going to go anywhere so quarantine the construction in a healthy work environment.
> 
> As long as there are infected nothing will go forward including transportation/airline's, retail, hotels, tourism, logistics, trade shows, events, sporting, finance, etc, etc you name it.
> 
> It's hard everywhere managing coronavirus because it's a difficult task. Getting things back to normal will need to be managed very, very carefully.


Indeed, they would better respect lockdown order, i live near to Emaar retail construction - Meadows village and they are really working in usual timing, like there is no lockdown or pandemic. 

Interesting how Dubai will find the way out of this bad situation - last 2 years was so bad for the market and investors who bought before, and now this hard hit on all fields of activities and huge coming supply.....
Definitely different story from what we had in 2008-10...

Missing that times when Imre was active and many other active participants.


----------



## noir-dresses

KolVicAr said:


> Indeed, they would better respect lockdown order, i live near to Emaar retail construction - Meadows village and they are really working in usual timing, like there is no lockdown or pandemic.
> 
> Interesting how Dubai will find the way out of this bad situation - last 2 years was so bad for the market and investors who bought before, and now this hard hit on all fields of activities and huge coming supply.....
> Definitely different story from what we had in 2008-10...
> 
> Missing that times when Imre was active and many other active participants.


Good morning, yes I'm also for a work break, and quarantine during this pandemic. You must understand it's just not construction workers gathering at the job site doing there job, but the practice of busing them in which is not recommended due to social distancing, and I'm not even going to get into how the conditions are where they reside, live, and sleep. I'm in Europe at the moment, and we know first hand how easy this virus spreads, and the effects it can have on the health care system. 

Regarding real-estate we've noticed before the Corona virus out break the classical case of construction-led growth that can't stop itself when it's working for nothing, and putting downward pressure on real estate values, and rent. For those who just want a holiday home, and aren't worried about price fluctuations it's irrelevant. 

I'm afraid once flights restart we'll see many people leaving due to higher unemployment, and a fear of being in a situation of unmanageable debt. Back in 2009 we witnessed a lot of runners due to debt, now even runners can't flee due to the lock down. 

I've said since 2014 one of the prime reasons the economy is stagnating is because of low oil prices. I think it's pretty clear to everyone we'll never see oil priced at levels where GCC economies can have a balanced budget without burning reserves, and opening up new lines of credit. 

Regarding Imre I haven't chatted with him in the longest time. I think I'll see how he's doing today in Hungary.


----------



## bkunaal

Guys any News about the Project . it says on Dubai Land Department Website :
*
Seven City Jlt*
#2065
Seven Tides Real Estate Development L.L.C
8.13% Completed
*Under Cancellation*

Kindly i have been following the old discussions , Please i dont need to know anything about coronavirus or Dubai markets, so dont spam this group with all those issues.

If any one has any updates pertaining to the same project kindly feel free to add in


Cheers


----------



## loandxb

bkunaal said:


> Kindly i have been following the old discussions , Please i dont need to know anything about coronavirus or Dubai markets, so dont spam this group with all those issues.


LMAO. This is a thread about property investments in the UAE and you don't want people to talk about that?

Setting that aside, there's a thread for this project in the JLT section. I would recommend you check it out and post your questions there.


----------



## Dubai Skyscraper

loandxb said:


> Setting that aside, there's a thread for this project in the JLT section. I would recommend you check it out and post your questions there.


We don't want investment talk in the dedicated threads, they are for construction updates and general discussions only. This thread is the right place to post everything regarding your personal investments and anything else related to the propertly market.


----------



## loandxb

Dubai Skyscraper said:


> We don't want investment talk in the dedicated threads, they are for construction updates and general discussions only. This thread is the right place to post everything regarding your personal investments and anything else related to the propertly market.


That's what I said. Sorry if that was unclear, but I recommended that @bkunaal goes to the Seven City thread for construction updates only (which he seems to be looking for) — not investment talks.

Also, complaining of people discussing the current market situation on a thread dedicated to investments feels a bit... bold, to say the least.


----------



## bkunaal

Guys Here is the Answer to why i had to post my query in here , please see the Link Below & i hope this clarifies :

#GROUND WORKS: SEVEN CITY JLT, ?m, ?F, Res 

*
Dubai Skyscraper
Moderator*
Joined Jul 7, 2009
12,344 Posts
#47 • 19 d ago
I've moved the discussion about your property investments _here_. Please use that thread for discussions unrelated to the project's development.

The Moderator had moved the conversation of Seven CIty in here ,


----------



## rakcity

Yeah, the Seven City JLT investment talk was moved here.


----------



## loandxb

My bad guys. Typically, we discuss DLD status etc on the construction threads themselves. Hence the confusion. Whatever works for the mods then.


----------



## 7tidesjlt

bkunaal said:


> Guys any News about the Project . it says on Dubai Land Department Website :
> 
> *Seven City Jlt*
> #2065
> Seven Tides Real Estate Development L.L.C
> 8.13% Completed
> *Under Cancellation*
> 
> Kindly i have been following the old discussions , Please i dont need to know anything about coronavirus or Dubai markets, so dont spam this group with all those issues.
> 
> If any one has any updates pertaining to the same project kindly feel free to add in
> 
> 
> Cheers


On DLD site there is last inspection pdf which was done in March 2020. As per the report project status is ON HOLD. And the only difference in the report of NOV 2019 to March 2020 is MAIN CONTRACTOR IS FINALISED. Means there is a change in status with new comments.

also I got an email from Yolanda on update as she replied projects are ON HOLD because of COVID 19.


----------



## rakcity

7tidesjlt said:


> On DLD site there is last inspection pdf which was done in March 2020. As per the report project status is ON HOLD. And the only difference in the report of NOV 2019 to March 2020 is MAIN CONTRACTOR IS FINALISED. Means there is a change in status with new comments.
> 
> also I got an email from Yolanda on update as she replied projects are ON HOLD because of COVID 19.


If you go to the website and sort by 'Active' and search for 'Seven City' - there are no results. 

If you change this to 'Under Cancellation' and search for 'Seven City' - it comes up. 

Also, with regards to Yolanda saying every construction site is on hold right now in Dubai... I am not in Dubai so I cannot comment (perhaps someone else can?), but all construction sites are active as usual in RAK right now. 

So have all construction sites stopped working in Dubai? Or is Yolanda not telling the truth here?


----------



## 7tidesjlt

rakcity said:


> If you go to the website and sort by 'Active' and search for 'Seven City' - there are no results.
> 
> If you change this to 'Under Cancellation' and search for 'Seven City' - it comes up.
> 
> Also, with regards to Yolanda saying every construction site is on hold right now in Dubai... I am not in Dubai so I cannot comment (perhaps someone else can?), but all construction sites are active as usual in RAK right now.
> 
> So have all construction sites stopped working in Dubai? Or is Yolanda not telling the truth here?


Yolanda words can’t be trusted.
but DLD status is we should trust and in last inspection report it is onhold and there is no remarks on Main contractor status which means it is finalized. Check below link of latest inspection report.


https://realestateims.dubailand.gov.ae/Reports/IPMR.aspx?ZFIGbn%2b90aXPn%2f9TDVXDB628vakfarRrHkpqR8K3jLk%3d


----------



## loandxb

rakcity said:


> So have all construction sites stopped working in Dubai? Or is Yolanda not telling the truth here?


Emaar projects seem to be going forward as usual. I think this is BS. Developers can decide to keep on working if they want to.


----------



## noir-dresses

Have you guys heard the term skeleton work force? Clever developer shenanigans where they put one or more workers on site basically doing nothing, but enough for the poorly regulated system there to label the project active. 

Never trust the developers, it's irrelevant what they say, what matters is what they do, and what progress you see visually. 

I would advise you guys make a WhatsApp group with verified buyers you trust. Be careful because some shaddy developers have used SSC platform before to monitor, and even tried manipulatng investors. Why let anyone know what your strategy is, what you know, what you don't know, and what your next move may be. Also be warry of lawyers who will tell, and promise you what you like to hear only to screw you just as much as the developer has already. 

We've heard, and seen many cases such as yours over the years. 

Good luck in your quest.


----------



## EightFive

Projects are kept as active because loans would have to repaid if it went on hold or cancelled. 

I would NEVER invest here unless i was a citizen.


----------



## Docmo1

I need your advice with the following (I'm sure others are in the same boat):

I've been approached by DAMAC asking me wether i would like to change my Hotel Apartment in Tower to a "residential" apartment instead. I know that when i bought my unit the residential apartments in one of the other Towers (can't recall which) was cheaper by a few hundred dhs per sq ft. They claim that they are doing this to spare us Investors the 5% VAT that we would otherwise incur on Hotel Apartments. Has anyone been contacted by Damac regarding this and what are your thoughts?


----------



## Sevenblah

I have created a what's app group for seven city jlt update sharing. Interested folks can text me their contact to join. Thanks


----------



## bkunaal

Sevenblah said:


> I have created a what's app group for seven city jlt update sharing. Interested folks can text me their contact to join. Thanks


 interested please add me 0507731154


----------



## isicman

Docmo1 said:


> I need your advice with the following (I'm sure others are in the same boat):
> 
> I've been approached by DAMAC asking me wether i would like to change my Hotel Apartment in Tower to a "residential" apartment instead. I know that when i bought my unit the residential apartments in one of the other Towers (can't recall which) was cheaper by a few hundred dhs per sq ft. They claim that they are doing this to spare us Investors the 5% VAT that we would otherwise incur on Hotel Apartments. Has anyone been contacted by Damac regarding this and what are your thoughts?


Check also what the service charges are. They could be different.


----------



## Spurs

Anyone know about a short term rental company in Dubai called Blueground? They are requesting up to 35% off agreed rentals to their landlords and I wanted to know if this seemed fair? 

Problem is some landlords might just say no and some might say yes?!?


----------



## Rustamsalehin

*Dubai Aims to Open Up for Tourists at the Beginning of July*
By Zainab Fattah and Manus Cranny - April 28, 2020 

Pandemic means tourism sector will focus more on hygiene

The government says it will not restrict hotel construction
Dubai hopes to reopen for tourists at the beginning of July, after halting most arrivals last month to contain the coronavirus pandemic.
The process will be gradual and could be delayed until September, depending on global trends, Helal Al Marri, director general of Dubai’s Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing, said in an interview with Bloomberg TV on Tuesday.
“Many countries remain closed and it’s more about the bilateral discussions,” Al Marri said. “Is it going to be July when things start slowly opening up? Is it going to be September? We just need to make sure we’re ready if things come earlier than expected.”
Dubai, which spent years turning itself into the Middle East’s main business and tourism hub, attracts millions of visitors annually thanks to its beaches, luxury hotels and high-end malls.
Last week the government announced it would ease, a strict lockdown and allow some commercial and transport activities to restart. The United Arab Emirates, of which Dubai is a member, has reported around 10,800 cases of Covid-19.
Dubai received 16.7 million tourists last year, according to official estimates. India, Saudi Arabia and the U.K. have been the emirate’s most important markets for years, though the number of Chinese visitors is climbing rapidly.
While the pandemic has driven tourist arrivals “to zero,” the industry will bounce back and evolve to focus more on “health and hygiene,” Al Marri said.
That will probably mean higher costs for hotels, he said. The government is providing support for the beleaguered sector by reducing some fees -- including a 50% cut in municipality payments.
Al Marri said it was not up to the government to restrict construction of hotels, even amid a glut of rooms.
“In Dubai, interacting with the sector, they are not interested at all in the government controlling either supply or pricing of hotel rooms,” he said. “Investors in the hotels definitely have the expertise and the experience to make their own decisions.”
_— With assistance by Layan Odeh, Yousef Gamal El-Din, and Paul Abelsky_








Dubai Aims to Open Up for Tourists at the Beginning of July


Dubai hopes to reopen for tourists at the beginning of July, after halting most arrivals last month to contain the coronavirus pandemic.




www.bloomberg.com


----------



## Rustamsalehin

Spurs said:


> Anyone know about a short term rental company in Dubai called Blueground? They are requesting up to 35% off agreed rentals to their landlords and I wanted to know if this seemed fair?
> 
> Problem is some landlords might just say no and some might say yes?!?


Legally, the signed agreement prevails and how it is interpreted. One party to the agreement cannot impose its will.
The agreement may have clauses/definition for Force Majeure circumstances (FMC) and early termination.
As I do not have access to the agreement, I can make general and informal comments only, as provided below for a further discussion on the subject:

Any request for any change to an agreement may be entertained under the Force Majeure clause/definition if the current circumstance falls under the FMC.
Secondly, if the current circumstance satisfies any of the conditions mentioned for FMC, the proposed percentage of reduction in the agreed rent can also be challenged. There has to be a basis for deciding a figure for it. Blueground needs to provide its working, how it reached to 35%.
And thirdly, there can be a commercial settlement on the proposed reduction. As in this case, Blueground may have an option for early termination. It may exercise it and it may be more detrimental commercially to the owner.


----------



## EightFive

Germany in 1946 levels.


----------



## Rustamsalehin

Sunny666 said:


> Can you please elaborate this more thoroughly? They are trying to charge you commission for what exactly? What kind of services did they offer you?
> Commission for rentals is paid by the tenant. The only way they can "demand" from you to pay the commission is if they are doing property management for you. However, this should have been agreed upfront, both parties need to be aware of it and there is a contract that needs to be signed for property management services. Also, does this real estate brokerage company has the license for property management in the first place?


They are demanding fees for the marketing they did. No property management has been requested.


----------



## dxbpropinvestor

hmmm according to almost every broker in Dubai sales volumes have bounced back quickly.....doesn't make much sense to me. Who is actually buying right now? i'm on the fence right now as to whether prices can crash much lower. We are already at 2009/10 prices (if not lower) in most communities.


----------



## dxbpropinvestor

ispcallaghan said:


> Hi Guys , They are advertising a lot recently SAAM VEGA. It is a project in Falcon city , basically I think Hotel inside Pyramid (the idea is nice and funny). They offer this with rental guarantee (we all know in Dubai nothing is guarantee)..
> Anyway anyone has some deep information or news regarding this project which is under construction?
> And Developer also ..
> Thank you


Stay clear of this


----------



## loandxb

dxbpropinvestor said:


> hmmm according to almost every broker in Dubai sales volumes have bounced back quickly.....doesn't make much sense to me. Who is actually buying right now? i'm on the fence right now as to whether prices can crash much lower. We are already at 2009/10 prices (if not lower) in most communities.


Could very much be a dead cat bounce. Same as the US stock market (in my opinion). We haven't even seen the effects of the crisis yet. The second downfall will be painful, but it's just delayed by a few months.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

loandxb said:


> Could very much be a dead cat bounce. Same as the US stock market (in my opinion). We haven't even seen the effects of the crisis yet. The second downfall will be painful, but it's just delayed by a few months.


May 2020-We are renewing rents (in some residential properties) at 20 percent discounts. We were already at 2009 rents so it is very bad now. This lower rent is not reflecting in sales prices yet...... last time this happened it took about 6 months for the sales prices to buckle. 

The only way sales prices don't follow a downturn in rents (in general) is if cost of borrowing gets cheaper simultaneously.


----------



## loandxb

FutureViewDxb said:


> May 2020-We are renewing rents (in some residential properties) at 20 percent discounts. We were already at 2009 rents so it is very bad now. This lower rent is not reflecting in sales prices yet...... last time this happened it took about 6 months for the sales prices to buckle.
> 
> The only way sales prices don't follow a downturn in rents (in general) is if cost of borrowing gets cheaper simultaneously.


20% is about what I'm seeing too. I'm a renter so I can't complain about it! But I feel bad for investors these days. Glad I didn't buy yet.


----------



## chefdude

Looks like Emirates is about to layoff around 30,000 employees some of those will be property renters as not everyone is in company housing.









Emirates considers cutting 30,000 jobs, retire A380s faster


The worlds biggest long-haul carrier could shrink a payroll that stood at 105,000 in March by as much as 30% as it reduces costs and realigns its operation to cope with a travel downturn expected to last for years, according to people familiar with the matter.




m.economictimes.com


----------



## chefdude

70% of Dubai companies expect to go out of business within six months due to coronavirus pandemic, survey says


Nearly half the restaurants and hotels surveyed by the Dubai Chamber and three-quarters of travel and tourism companies expect to go out of business in the next month alone.




www.cnbc.com






*70% of Dubai companies expect to go out of business within six months due to coronavirus pandemic, survey says*

Almost half the restaurants and hotels surveyed by the Dubai Chamber expected to go out of business in the next month alone, with three-quarters of travel and tourism companies expecting to close in that time.
The Dubai Chamber of Commerce in late April surveyed 1,228 CEOs across a range of sectors during the city’s strictest lockdown period.


----------



## Rider

Hi All, 

My tenant has unfortunately defaulted on rent payments and has provided a string of broken promises and excuses. In light of the current situation I have tried to be amicable and understanding and have offered flexibility in the form of payment deferrals as well as switching to monthly payments (the tenancy agreement says 3 cheques). My fear is that he has no intention of paying until the agreement expires on 31 July and my question is what is the legal position after the agreement expires?

Is he entitled to continue living in the property after 31 July or can I call the police and say he is trespassing? Or do the police steer clear of such disputes and refer me to RERA? I am not based in UAE and so am not in a position to go down the usual route of sending a payment notice from a notary public and then filing a case with RERA after 30 days. I have just paid annual service charges and am relying on this rental income to cover costs. 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## FutureViewDxb

Hi rider!

we haven’t used rent deferrals as we feel it’s just loading up a debt with a tenant who is likely to get into a worse situation over time.

We have given discounts ranging from 20-50 percent for 2-3 months, and split rent to monthly where requested.

If he overstays, his contract automatically renews, so then it’s a notarized vacating notice/failure to pay which gives him 30 days to sort out a payment.

It is not ideal whichever way you play it.

Incidentally a friends tenant has just vacated a big villa after receiving the notarized notice to pay. It gave them 30 days to make good or they MUST leave. After the 30 day point you can involve police.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

_Yesterday afternoon, I saw the first mortgage defaulters had started dumping their properties in areas I invest. These folks will lose their life savings and leave with nothing best case._

I really feel very very strongly that all mortgages in UAE should immediately be converted to interest only mortgages for 3 to 5 years minimum.

I feel this should be followed by the implementing of full term interest only mortgage products in the market. Lower cost of borrowing allows more competition at higher ticket prices.

Here is an extract from a recent telegraph article where MPs are pushing the same.

PROTECT PROPERTY MARKET WITH INTEREST ONLY LOANS

“A finance expert with financial services monitoring firm Canstar, Steve Mickenbecker, said the proposal was a "no-brainer".

He said if interest and principal loans were converted to interest-only, many investors would see their monthly repayments halved.

"That would give the investors financial relief and help them to provide support to their tenants. If you moved to interest-only you deliver a big boost to investors that can be passed through. I think this is a dead-set right move," he said.

Reserve Bank governor Philip Lowe said on Tuesday night restrictions on interest-only loans had been lifted over the past two years, adding there was nothing to prevent such a policy.“


----------



## EightFive

Interest only loans only work if dubai comes back.

There is no reason for it to do so. All the oil money is gone. Nothing left.


----------



## chefdude

FutureViewDxb said:


> _Yesterday afternoon, I saw the first mortgage defaulters had started dumping their properties in areas I invest. These folks will lose their life savings and leave with nothing best case._
> 
> I really feel very very strongly that all mortgages in UAE should immediately be converted to interest only mortgages for 3 to 5 years minimum.
> 
> I feel this should be followed by the implementing of full term interest only mortgage products in the market. Lower cost of borrowing allows more competition at higher ticket prices.
> 
> Here is an extract from a recent telegraph article where MPs are pushing the same.
> 
> PROTECT PROPERTY MARKET WITH INTEREST ONLY LOANS
> 
> “A finance expert with financial services monitoring firm Canstar, Steve Mickenbecker, said the proposal was a "no-brainer".
> He said if interest and principal loans were converted to interest-only, many investors would see their monthly repayments halved.
> "That would give the investors financial relief and help them to provide support to their tenants. If you moved to interest-only you deliver a big boost to investors that can be passed through. I think this is a dead-set right move," he said.
> Reserve Bank governor Philip Lowe said on Tuesday night restrictions on interest-only loans had been lifted over the past two years, adding there was nothing to prevent such a policy.“



It's a great idea but there is no chance of you ever getting anything out of the banking system.

They will happily foreclose on properties and take what people have poured their hard-earned savings as a deposit to purchase for cents on the $

It's what they do


----------



## loandxb

EightFive said:


> Interest only loans only work if dubai comes back.
> 
> There is no reason for it to do so. All the oil money is gone. Nothing left.


I'm still pretty bullish on Dubai (and the UAE in general) as a business incorporation hub for global companies. Lots of changes need to be made for that to happen, but the core framework is already in place (no taxes, business-friendly environment etc).

If the government lowers incorporation fees drastically (they're amongst the most expensive in the world!), lowers visa fees and makes it way easier for entrepreneurs to open bank accounts, it'll truly put Dubai on the map as the best place to do business worldwide, better than Singapore and Hong Kong.


----------



## FutureViewDxb

chefdude said:


> It's a great idea but there is no chance of you ever getting anything out of the banking system.
> 
> They will happily foreclose on properties and take what people have poured their hard-earned savings as a deposit to purchase for cents on the $
> 
> It's what they do



Unfortunately I know you are right. They don't care on a genuine level, may keep saying they do in the Khaleej Times, the wheel keeps spinning.

Knowing the back stories to some of the people who are going to get screwed.

A girl who raised the deposit from her parents savings to buy her own place here, she is toast. Cannot even move out, rent the place and cover the mortgage- now her job is on pause.

The guy who was encouraged to "own his own home" because "why pay rent?", savings annihilated- his childrens security ruined.

There are solutions, it is very annoying.

And..... if they cannot commit to loans that are secured on the value of property going up (or staying put) over the next 20 years IT IS VERY VERY TELLING.


----------



## propertypimp

FutureViewDxb said:


> _Yesterday afternoon, I saw the first mortgage defaulters had started dumping their properties in areas I invest. These folks will lose their life savings and leave with nothing best case._
> 
> I really feel very very strongly that all mortgages in UAE should immediately be converted to interest only mortgages for 3 to 5 years minimum.
> 
> I feel this should be followed by the implementing of full term interest only mortgage products in the market. Lower cost of borrowing allows more competition at higher ticket prices.
> 
> Here is an extract from a recent telegraph article where MPs are pushing the same.
> 
> PROTECT PROPERTY MARKET WITH INTEREST ONLY LOANS
> 
> “A finance expert with financial services monitoring firm Canstar, Steve Mickenbecker, said the proposal was a "no-brainer".
> He said if interest and principal loans were converted to interest-only, many investors would see their monthly repayments halved.
> "That would give the investors financial relief and help them to provide support to their tenants. If you moved to interest-only you deliver a big boost to investors that can be passed through. I think this is a dead-set right move," he said.
> Reserve Bank governor Philip Lowe said on Tuesday night restrictions on interest-only loans had been lifted over the past two years, adding there was nothing to prevent such a policy.“


Interesting. Hope someone is listening. But how does that affect the banks balance sheets and risk? And how can it be applied to a transient society? Most Mortgages here are probably at the first 5 years of a 25 year term so relatively new.


----------



## EightFive

loandxb said:


> I'm still pretty bullish on Dubai (and the UAE in general) as a business incorporation hub for global companies. Lots of changes need to be made for that to happen, but the core framework is already in place (no taxes, business-friendly environment etc).
> 
> If the government lowers incorporation fees drastically (they're amongst the most expensive in the world!), lowers visa fees and makes it way easier for entrepreneurs to open bank accounts, it'll truly put Dubai on the map as the best place to do business worldwide, better than Singapore and Hong Kong.


The world is cracking down on tax havens, europe espeically (thats what brexit is REALLY about) and the uae is small and insignificant enough to be totally blocked from world finance if they try to pursue that path.


----------



## loandxb

EightFive said:


> The world is cracking down on tax havens, europe espeically (thats what brexit is REALLY about) and the uae is small and insignificant enough to be totally blocked from world finance if they try to pursue that path.


I don't see why the EU would have a say in the UAE's tax policy. The only thing they can do is punish the UAE for not fighting against money laundering enough, like they already did in the past by threatening to cut SWIFT access... But that doesn't change the fact that it's perfectly legal for companies to incorporate wherever they want in the world, as it is for individuals to relocate to other countries to enjoy less taxes, better weather, etc. Very different topic.

Take the example of Dubai Commercity, which was announced recently as an upcoming extension of DAFZA. I think this is a great example of how Dubai can be relevant in today's world. E-commerce companies sending out parcels to their customers worldwide have the freedom to establish their operations wherever they want, and in a perfectly legal way. Depending on Commercity's fees and T&Cs, it may very well be an option that makes a lot more sense for the majority of e-commerce companies than to keep their logistics operations in a highly taxed, highly regulated country were the value proposition is lower.

By the way, the UAE has always positioned itself as a low-tax oasis for business. It's nothing new. Just continuing down that path would simply mean continuing what was done for the past few decades. If the country was to be "totally blocked from world finance", it would have already happened a long time ago.


----------



## dxbpropinvestor

having said all this.... is it crazy to start thinking about investing again?


----------



## noir-dresses

dxbpropinvestor said:


> having said all this.... is it crazy to start thinking about investing again?


If I'm correct I see a UK flag next to your avatar so I figure your based there. Real-estate prices will most likely drop everywhere, so if you're going to invest in property which is called a permanent fixed investment it's clearer now during this pandemic to do it where you reside, and where you have easy access at all times. Investing in your own country always gives you the upper hand because of citizenship, no guest what so ever paper work, regulations that benefit you first, definitely being a safer investment in every regard, your local government, and banks will always come to your rescue, less traveling expenses, better bank options in UK/EU if you need to finance, and the list goes on and on. 

One positive thing we've noticed during this pandemic is what's a good investment, and what are highly vulnerable investments. 

We've also witnessed during this crisis the USD is king hands down. Not even gold, silver, and Bitcoin showed any power against the USD during downward spikes. Stay away from investing in countries who aren't part of the 15 member USD Fed swat agreement because they'll get wiped out in the future even if there local currencies are pegged to the USD. The next business cycle will see a stronger USD, and all countries who have accumulated high USD debt since 2008 will have difficulty paying their obligations. 

Also avoid investing anything related to China because that ship will be sinking fast, and quick.


----------



## isicman

Docmo1 said:


> My previous comment was moved from a different thread without mention of the project name so here it is again. I would appreciate your thoughts and advice on the following: (I'm sure others are in the same boat):
> 
> "I've been approached by DAMAC asking me whether i would like to change my Hotel Apartment in Aykon City Tower B to a "residential" apartment instead. I know that when i bought my unit the residential apartments in one of the other towers (can't recall which) was cheaper by a few hundred dhs per sq ft. They claim that they are doing this to spare us Investors the 5% VAT that we would otherwise incur on Hotel Apartments. Has anyone else been contacted by Damac regarding this and what are your thoughts? "


*Gulf news is just talking about it today.*

Property owners in the UAE must not let developers change the classification of their near-complete projects just because they have been told it’s the right thing to do. At the very least, investors should be asking their developers why.

By agreeing to the reclassification into residential, buyers are ending up with a 15-20 per cent loss in value.
“This what investors can lose by accepting the downgrade,” said Firas Al Msaddi, CEO of fam Properties. “A fair trade would be for developers to offer investors a compensation of 15-20 per cent of the original purchase price of the hotel apartment.”









Loss in value: Why UAE property buyers need to ask developers questions on reclassification of projects


Delays on 'hotel apartment' projects will expose buyers to high VAT payouts




gulfnews.com


----------



## DocDubai

isicman said:


> *Gulf news is just talking about it today.*


Apparently the developer in question was not too happy with the aforementioned brokerage giving advice to their clients, so the developer cut ties and filed a complaint to DLD and the brokerage was slapped a 50K fine. They are now being sued by the developer. The saga continues...


----------



## propertypimp

DocDubai said:


> Apparently the developer in question was not too happy with the aforementioned brokerage giving advice to their clients, so the developer cut ties and filed a complaint to DLD and the brokerage was slapped a 50K fine. They are now being sued by the developer. The saga continues...


.
Interesting, so the DLD ruled in favor of the developer. I wonder what the outcome of the legal case will be...


----------



## loandxb

Ridiculous. The guy was just doing his job, expressing his opinion about the market. Why would that even be worthy of a fine?


----------



## propertypimp

loandxb said:


> Ridiculous. The guy was just doing his job, expressing his opinion about the market. Why would that even be worthy of a fine?


It's not because of the article. It's because the broker was trying to drum up business by advising clients not to sign handover docs and to use their snagging and management services.


----------



## loandxb

propertypimp said:


> It's not because of the article. It's because the broker was trying to drum up business by advising clients not to sign handover docs and to use their snagging and management services.


Oh well. I hadn't understood properly then. Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Rustamsalehin

There is a video of the discussion on the subject. The following is the link to it:


----------



## noir-dresses

Hence what does one learn from the video in a very poorly regulated system when buying off plan in Dubai. The developer will most likely not honor the agreement they and the investor have agreed upon and signed leaving the investor calling, and knocking on regulators, and lawyers doors after honoring payments with their hands, and trying to get keys to handover with their legs in a foreign country with their legs with endless headaches. 

In a poorly regulated real-estate environment it's the law of the jungle. Every time the ship sinks it leaves the investors scrambling for driftwood at sea in the hope of floating to solid ground.


----------



## EightFive

I would never buy in dubai unless i had a citizen's name on the paperwork. Anyone else is second class and will be tossed to the wind if needed.


----------



## Tokodo

Hello all,

Through researching the internet, I have found this great and very useful forum, while looking for advice on buying a property in Dubai. We are currently very confused by the amount of offers we are receiving. Let me explain first.

My wife and I are German and Dutch nationals, who have lived many years in the UK and other countries before that. We moved back to Germany in 2019. During a wonderful holiday in Dubai last November, we started looking at the possibility of buying a property there, to spend the winter months. We visited Nakheel, Emaar and Damac offices who all offered both off-plan an already built properties. We also visited three real estate agents. They were very helpful and showed us a wide range of existing properties for sale in the Marina area, on Palm Jumeirah, The Creek, Arabian Ranch and Sports City.

Wanting to evaluate all we had seen, we traveled back to Germany. During December and January, we received some emails and calls from Dubai, trying to convince us that we shouldn’t wait any longer because Expo 2020 would send prices through the roof. Having lived in multiple countries, we know the sales push tactics of real estate agents, so we told them all that we were still considering all options. Things went more quiet then with the calls and emails.

But since the end of March, we are being flooded with emails and calls in unprecedented numbers and all with prices that just go lower and lower. Every time we inform the agents that we are not very interested, they come back a week later with even lower prices. The strange thing is that the price reductions of off-plan and already built properties seem to be lowered with about the same percentages. But after reading through a lot of posts here, we have already decided not to buy off-plan.

Nevertheless the enormous price reductions continue, in some cases such as an already built villa in Arabian Ranches, with as much as 40% since November. But also apartments in well developed areas such as The Marina, are being offered at sometimes 30% lower prices since November. Also almost 
pre-approved (part) financing is thrown into the deal, especially through the big developers and their partner banks. Whenever we inform any agent that we are still considering multiple options, they come back with lower prices a few days later.

Is this the same panic starting to develop as in 2009? To be honest the enormous price drops are putting us of all together for now. For us it’s a long term purchase for personal use only, so no intention to rent it out. But we are afraid that even buying at these huge discounts would be a risk. Even though the agents keep pushing the same sales pitch that prices will now skyrocket during and after Expo 2021.

Having looked around all over Dubai and experiencing these almost desperate sales agents, we fear that the combination of more off-plan oversupply, rapidly growing number of already existing empty properties, low oil prices and worldwide economic problems caused by Covid19, will blend together again in a very toxic mix for Dubai. Therefore we are looking for advice on this forum. There seem to be a lot of members here that have lived through all ups and downs in Dubai over the years and who might be able to offer much needed advice.

Thank you very much in advance for your help!


----------



## propertypimp

Tokodo said:


> Hello all,
> 
> needed advice.
> 
> Thank you very much in advance for your help!


.

The per square foot prices for ready properties are significantly less than off-plan. The supply pipeline pace has slowed down and currently no new launches due to the crisis. All positive for the market balance. Remains to be seen if the easing of restrictions will gradually improve the demand side, economic activity and sentiment. Prices may decline from here but I think the downside is limited and the upside potential is good if you are looking at a 5+ years horizon, regardless of expo. Yes, sales agents are desperate, it's because transactions are down as the market tries to find a new balance.


----------



## Tokodo

propertypimp said:


> .
> 
> The per square foot prices for ready properties are significantly less than off-plan. The supply pipeline pace has slowed down and currently no new launches due to the crisis. All positive for the market balance. Remains to be seen if the easing of restrictions will gradually improve the demand side, economic activity and sentiment. Prices may decline from here but I think the downside is limited and the upside potential is good if you are looking at a 5+ years horizon, regardless of expo. Yes, sales agents are desperate, it's because transactions are down as the market tries to find a new balance.


Thank you so much for your insight! It does seem that agents are desperate. In the exchanges with them, they try very hard to make us believe that there are many distressed sellers now, who prefer to sell as quickly as possible at big discounts. The agents often tell stories of big layoffs of expats, especially those working in specific industries such as finance, hospitality, airlines and tourism. They seem to be using this as a sales tactic. For us it’s difficult to picture the situation really worsening in Dubai. It seems to be such an extremely wealthy place. We watched many expats in our hotel bar and in the hotel gardens, having parties with expensive bottles of champagne flowing like rivers and lobsters and caviar being served in huge quantities. Many of them arriving in luxury cars. Their great wealth seems very obvious. Or is it all more an illusion of wealth based on irresponsible spending and debt?


----------



## noir-dresses

I would advise to rent first so to see if you really want a vacation home in Dubai. Rents will drop further so the trend is your friend. Figure out the visa issue and requirements for yourselves because over stays can be pricey. Also nothing in a pandemic is certain regarding entry, and exit not just from Dubai, but other locations in our crazy world today. 

When you've decided 100 percent Dubai is where you want a holiday home then avoid off plan like the plague. Find a way to buy a ready apartment in a location your happy with that gives you immediate key and access in hand. Real-estate prices should drop further because there is absolutely nothing in the horizon at the moment that will make them rise. It's a buyers market and never forget your holding all the aces. There should be plenty of cheap fire sales coming from people who wish to leave due to unemployment, or they just can't afford to be in Dubai, or there going through difficult economic problems in their own country so there selling their holiday home in Dubai first. 

Another given is don't trust real estate agents in Dubai because their use to talking naive investors into buying chronically unprofitable investments. Real-estate agents to you right now are as useful as tits on a nun. There flooding you with sales pitches now because they have your data, and worse sold and shared it with others. 

Good luck in your quest, be smart, and do your research.


----------



## dxbpropinvestor

anyone interested in setting up a brokerage here? I find the majority of brokers here really dont understand the product. They are indirectly responsible for the price declines especially in newer communities such as dubai hills. As soon as a property is handover over owners are immediately put under pressure by brokers to reduce asking prices to reflect the 'market'. It wouldn't be an issue if all owners and landlords held firm.


----------



## noir-dresses

dxbpropinvestor said:


> anyone interested in setting up a brokerage here? I find the majority of brokers here really dont understand the product. They are indirectly responsible for the price declines especially in newer communities such as dubai hills. As soon as a property is handover over owners are immediately put under pressure by brokers to reduce asking prices to reflect the 'market'. It wouldn't be an issue if all owners and landlords held firm.


The brokers are just the tip of the iceberg. Basically ego decisions that ignored common sense, and a classical case of construction-led growth that can't stop itself when it's working for nothing. That's the core reason of why over supply tanked real estate prices since the end of 2013.

II'm not even going to mention peak oil, and politics which are also effecting the economy.


----------



## propertypimp

Tokodo said:


> Thank you so much for your insight! It does seem that agents are desperate. In the exchanges with them, they try very hard to make us believe that there are many distressed sellers now, who prefer to sell as quickly as possible at big discounts. The agents often tell stories of big layoffs of expats, especially those working in specific industries such as finance, hospitality, airlines and tourism. They seem to be using this as a sales tactic. For us it’s difficult to picture the situation really worsening in Dubai. It seems to be such an extremely wealthy place. We watched many expats in our hotel bar and in the hotel gardens, having parties with expensive bottles of champagne flowing like rivers and lobsters and caviar being served in huge quantities. Many of them arriving in luxury cars. Their great wealth seems very obvious. Or is it all more an illusion of wealth based on irresponsible spending and debt?


There is some truth in that. Some owners do need to sell at distress because their rental return is not covering their mortgage. At the same time bank valuations have dropped so they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Business owners need to divest to cover cash flow shortfalls in their company. Ideally brokers and market participants derive market price from transaction data from Q1 2020 and Q4 2019 or the most recent transactions. Problem is this data is not valid anymore because the economic dynamic has changed quickly. One distress sale in a certain community shouldn't set a precedent for future prices in that area. Brokers for the past couple of years have been mostly reliant on the off-plan sales trend. They don't know how to deal with ready properties. Since off-plan stock is either not available or not attractive anymore, they call owners asking them to sell. So they are frantically calling both sides, telling a different story in order to close a deal. If you look at the listings, many cash positive owners removed their properties for sale to wait it out an see.


----------



## dxbpropinvestor

Property Trends - Dubai Real Estate Data Insights and Analytics


Now track daily sales transactions happening in Dubai’s real estate market. Get first-hand information from fam Properties. Contact us for a free consultation.




property-trends.com





thats a good starting point to understand actual property transactions. The raw data is from the DLD. I imagine some of the ridiculously low transactions in any sub community are probably 'gifts'. Doesn't' include specific villa sub communities.

I had a broker who sold me a property a few years ago call me last week and ask me if i would now consider selling the aforementioned property at -35%. insane.

anyway going forward i will be increasing the rents and/or asking prices on my portfolio. got to start somewhere. i hope others follow suit and dont let brokers dictate the market. as owners/landlords we need to start exerting more pressure


----------



## propertypimp

dxbpropinvestor said:


> Property Trends - Dubai Real Estate Data Insights and Analytics
> 
> 
> Now track daily sales transactions happening in Dubai’s real estate market. Get first-hand information from fam Properties. Contact us for a free consultation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> property-trends.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thats a good starting point to understand actual property transactions. The raw data is from the DLD. I imagine some of the ridiculously low transactions in any sub community are probably 'gifts'. Doesn't' include specific villa sub communities.
> 
> I had a broker who sold me a property a few years ago call me last week and ask me if i would now consider selling the aforementioned property at -35%. insane.
> 
> anyway going forward i will be increasing the rents and/or asking prices on my portfolio. got to start somewhere. i hope others follow suit and dont let brokers dictate the market. as owners/landlords we need to start exerting more pressure


I Wouldn't trust or use data from any property broker. They probably use tracking to collect visitors data. 

Better use specialized advisors like property monitor. It's a paid subscriber service for detailed market reports but you can get some free info too. Or directly from DLD, it's a learning curve to understand the area/community names and filter out some transactions.

The brokers who ask you to sell for -35% probably received a call from a "buyer" earlier that day asking for a distress deal but they don't have any listings with them. So they call their database to see if a seller will take the bait. The keyword now is % below original price. The lower the better.


----------



## dxbpropinvestor

propertypimp said:


> I Wouldn't trust or use data from any property broker. They probably use tracking to collect visitors data.
> 
> Better use specialized advisors like property monitor. It's a paid subscriber service for detailed market reports but you can get some free info too. Or directly from DLD, it's a learning curve to understand the area/community names and filter out some transactions.
> 
> The brokers who ask you to sell for -35% probably received a call from a "buyer" earlier that day asking for a distress deal but they don't have any listings with them. So they call their database to see if a seller will take the bait. The keyword now is % below original price. The lower the better.



i normally wouldnt trust it - i've done a sense check with the raw data file published on DLD and it all tallies up with this site. The website is just a bit more user friendly than the DLD data dump.


----------



## Tokodo

The replies and posts here by experienced people are very helpful. We just received the Arabian Ranches Villa offer again and all of a sudden 11 other offers for similar properties in Arabian Ranches. No more extra discounts offered. Generally 40% lower than the prices we were offered in November and December. Some owners though do now offer to pay for interior refurbishments or landscaping on top of the discounts, should we not like the designs. We do get the feeling it’s a bit of a Wild Wild West property market in Dubai.

We will really take all advice to heart in considering a purchase in Dubai. For now we won’t make any decisions, since it currently all seems to be a bit chaotic. I agree with some of the recent posts that these agents/brokers do more harm than good with their behaviour. As an interested buyer, they give you the feeling that it’s all a mess of oversupply and sellers that need to dump their properties at any price.


----------



## noir-dresses

Anyone wanting to buy just wait, and focus on these two fundamentals. 

First is "debt distress" which will effect every UAE resident, business, corporation, government entity from the very top to the bottom. 

Second is "mass exodus" because once the flood gates get opened it's going to be a tsunami. 

Focus on what's really happening, and not what the local news, and manipulative brokers want you to believe. People are losing jobs in the hundreds of thousands, businesses closing, trade and supply faltering, nobody's paying anyone, millions will leave except the unlucky ones who are debt trapped, government issuing bonds to raise cash, KSA screwed up fighting an oil war with the United States. etc, etc. On top of all of this the real estate market has a glut with many more units expected to further flood the market with a population in UAE that could drop to 4-5 million people. 

On top of all of this you get these local brokers who only have a mobile phone, and laptop invested in Dubai, office cubicals provided by his, or hers employer playing mental gymnastics with naive investors, and their hard earned money. 

Remember when buying, and selling it's the most convincing liar who makes the deal. The buyer as of now has all the power so don't bend to the local bubble boy, and girl brokers, and their deranged narrative, and motive. You are top the food chain.


----------



## ispcallaghan

Tokodo said:


> The replies and posts here by experienced people are very helpful. We just received the Arabian Ranches Villa offer again and all of a sudden 11 other offers for similar properties in Arabian Ranches. No more extra discounts offered. Generally 40% lower than the prices we were offered in November and December. Some owners though do now offer to pay for interior refurbishments or landscaping on top of the discounts, should we not like the designs. We do get the feeling it’s a bit of a Wild Wild West property market in Dubai.
> 
> We will really take all advice to heart in considering a purchase in Dubai. For now we won’t make any decisions, since it currently all seems to be a bit chaotic. I agree with some of the recent posts that these agents/brokers do more harm than good with their behaviour. As an interested buyer, they give you the feeling that it’s all a mess of oversupply and sellers that need to dump their properties at any price.


Hello. I am Italian investor living in Dubai.I totally agree with every comment here. I recently bought a Real Estate License trying to become a guide for Italian customers here.
Agents here are liars and scammers, but basically unprofessional.
Tokodo if you want we can make a ZOOM CALL where I will explain you some things.
Anyway recently I received ONLY requests from people who want to buy for themselves, not for investment neither for rent out. 
Avoid OFF PLAN at moment. Why Arabian Ranches ?..


----------



## dxbpropinvestor

noir-dresses said:


> Anyone wanting to buy just wait, and focus on these two fundamentals.
> 
> First is "debt distress" which will effect every UAE resident, business, corporation, government entity from the very top to the bottom.
> 
> Second is "mass exodus" because once the flood gates get opened it's going to be a tsunami.
> 
> Focus on what's really happening, and not what the local news, and manipulative brokers want you to believe. People are losing jobs in the hundreds of thousands, businesses closing, trade and supply faltering, nobody's paying anyone, millions will leave except the unlucky ones who are debt trapped, government issuing bonds to raise cash, KSA screwed up fighting an oil war with the United States. etc, etc. On top of all of this the real estate market has a glut with many more units expected to further flood the market with a population in UAE that could drop to 4-5 million people.
> 
> On top of all of this you get these local brokers who only have a mobile phone, and laptop invested in Dubai, office cubicals provided by his, or hers employer playing mental gymnastics with naive investors, and their hard earned money.
> 
> Remember when buying, and selling it's the most convincing liar who makes the deal. The buyer as of now has all the power so don't bend to the local bubble boy, and girl brokers, and their deranged narrative, and motive. You are top the food chain.



perfect summary


----------



## chefdude

Tokodo said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Through researching the internet, I have found this great and very useful forum, while looking for advice on buying a property in Dubai. We are currently very confused by the amount of offers we are receiving. Let me explain first.
> 
> My wife and I are German and Dutch nationals, who have lived many years in the UK and other countries before that. We moved back to Germany in 2019. During a wonderful holiday in Dubai last November, we started looking at the possibility of buying a property there, to spend the winter months. We visited Nakheel, Emaar and Damac offices who all offered both off-plan an already built properties. We also visited three real estate agents. They were very helpful and showed us a wide range of existing properties for sale in the Marina area, on Palm Jumeirah, The Creek, Arabian Ranch and Sports City.
> 
> Wanting to evaluate all we had seen, we traveled back to Germany. During December and January, we received some emails and calls from Dubai, trying to convince us that we shouldn’t wait any longer because Expo 2020 would send prices through the roof. Having lived in multiple countries, we know the sales push tactics of real estate agents, so we told them all that we were still considering all options. Things went more quiet then with the calls and emails.
> 
> But since the end of March, we are being flooded with emails and calls in unprecedented numbers and all with prices that just go lower and lower. Every time we inform the agents that we are not very interested, they come back a week later with even lower prices. The strange thing is that the price reductions of off-plan and already built properties seem to be lowered with about the same percentages. But after reading through a lot of posts here, we have already decided not to buy off-plan.
> 
> Nevertheless the enormous price reductions continue, in some cases such as an already built villa in Arabian Ranches, with as much as 40% since November. But also apartments in well developed areas such as The Marina, are being offered at sometimes 30% lower prices since November. Also almost
> pre-approved (part) financing is thrown into the deal, especially through the big developers and their partner banks. Whenever we inform any agent that we are still considering multiple options, they come back with lower prices a few days later.
> 
> Is this the same panic starting to develop as in 2009? To be honest the enormous price drops are putting us of all together for now. For us it’s a long term purchase for personal use only, so no intention to rent it out. But we are afraid that even buying at these huge discounts would be a risk. Even though the agents keep pushing the same sales pitch that prices will now skyrocket during and after Expo 2021.
> 
> Having looked around all over Dubai and experiencing these almost desperate sales agents, we fear that the combination of more off-plan oversupply, rapidly growing number of already existing empty properties, low oil prices and worldwide economic problems caused by Covid19, will blend together again in a very toxic mix for Dubai. Therefore we are looking for advice on this forum. There seem to be a lot of members here that have lived through all ups and downs in Dubai over the years and who might be able to offer much needed advice.
> 
> Thank you very much in advance for your help!



Do not listen to any of the agents pestering you to buy from them, it's called desperation! They are fighting to save their jobs as the economy is in sever distress there. Look back through the past 2 months of this thread and you will see data from reliable sources reinforcing this. They are expecting around 50 - 70% of small businesses and hotels / restaurants to go bankrupt this year. Noir is spot on there will be a massive exodus once travel restrictions drop leaving a glut of empty rental properties and or repossessed ex owner property. All of this will crucify the already depressed prices in Dubai.

Honest advice would be do not bother buying there instead look at renting homes via airbnb or similar for 1 - 2 months during the winter. You will save yourself massive headaches with red tape and expensive utility and maintenance payments that accompany apartments. Without a residency visa you will find it difficult to maintain, banking and utility accounts there and the rules change annually.

And as for Expo price hike, please they've been using that one for 5 years + trust me expo will be a flop the world has changed and Dubai been at the top of expensive destinations around the world will not be high on the majorities list of places to visit. I lived there from 2008 to 2019, it has changed massively over that decade and mostly for the worse.


----------



## Tokodo

Thank you all for you invaluable information. We have decided to wait it out for now. Using Google News searches, I have been reading up on the property market in Dubai and the general economic situation. I never realised that so much of the real estate developers, the Dubai government and many expats living there, are so heavily indebted. Also the stories of the exodus of workers/owners in all sorts of industries and businesses feels very troubling.

I remember well these images of abandoned luxury cars at the airport about ten years ago. After a few days of reading up on Dubai, I start to feel that this might happen all over again. The agents keep calling us, with bigger and bigger discounts offered in all Dubai areas and from small apartments to high end villa’s. These agents and brokers become more pushy and seem to be doing more damage than good for their market. I have also been reading a lot on this forum and was surprised by how many buyers mention a lack of regulation and problems with governmental organisations, such as RERA. For a country that is so reliant on real estate a little more regulation and protection of buyers might be something to consider.


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## propertypimp

In my opinion it's good to keep an open mind when investing. Between 2009-2014 prices recovered to pre-GFC peaks. Past performance doesn't guarantee future results. But you have to weigh your risk to reward ratio. The infrastructure is still world class and development hasn't stopped. The lifestyle attraction and relative safety is still there. With economic stimulus and job creation the viability should return.


----------



## Rustamsalehin

*Dubai developer gets 'locked out' of own project by the contractor*
Croesus Holdings finds entrances boarded up at its two Dh100m projects in Majan
Link to the news:
Dubai developer gets 'locked out' of own project by contractor


----------



## noir-dresses

Like I said it's the law of the jungle when a market isn't regulated. 

Naive foreign investors see all donut, but no holes. 

Good luck going to a court with a local contractor in their country.


----------



## True Blue

Villa prices are tanking for another reason, they are becoming very hard to rent out. The build quality is so bad with no energy efficiency or insulation in a country where we need indoor temperature +20C lower than the outside. I know so many people who were lured by the cheap offers and then suffered when they got their first utility bills. AED5,000 per month is not uncommon.

In an apartment you can expect the units above, below, left and right to be at the same temperature as you. Therefore there is only one wall which is losing energy, consequently the energy bills are much more affordable. 

Buying from a developer, especially a government linked developer, will be cheap for a long time to come because there is definitely a liquidity problem. Dubai is very exposed to the effects of Covid. Oil, airlines, tourism, local businesses all badly affected. KSA doubled VAT and is racing in new taxes for business. Dubai says it won't introduce corporation tax or raise VAT but the full effects of Covid have not come home yet. Many businesses will be gone this year and the labour pool is in danger of evaporating unless they make it easy for jobseekers to stay in the country.

The biggest card is still being kept up the sleeve. Cheap visas for retirees who invest in property could be around the corner. The resurgence of Portugal was entirely founded on this strategy (along with offshore income tax breaks). If the tourists won't come and bring their spending money, they need to try harder to attract residents. Residents live in homes not hotels, so incentives for residents will drive up property prices. Dubai has the potential to recover very fast due to the world class infrastructure and leisure attractions.


----------



## propertypimp

The attraction to off-plan or direct from developer isn't the price, it's the payment plan. Prices are actually much higher per sq.ft than ready properties in the surrounding area and the sizes are getting smaller so the price looks cheap at face value. New sub communities give the impression that you are buying at original or base price, buyers fall into that trap and later sell below OP when neighboring communities prices drop.


----------



## Tokodo

propertypimp said:


> In my opinion it's good to keep an open mind when investing. Between 2009-2014 prices recovered to pre-GFC peaks. Past performance doesn't guarantee future results. But you have to weigh your risk to reward ratio. The infrastructure is still world class and development hasn't stopped. The lifestyle attraction and relative safety is still there. With economic stimulus and job creation the viability should return.


One of the things that we were very impressed with, was the infrastructure in the Emirate. Brand new roads and a beautiful metro system that we truly enjoyed. Still relatively small compared to for example Singapore and Hong Kong, but when we were in Dubai we watched an interview with the ruler of the country in which he stated that Dubai as a total and also it’s metro system presently, are only just about 10% of his total vision for Dubai. So only imagine what it will be like when his vision is all completed. It will be like nothing else in the world.

What was a little worrying with some of the properties we visited though, was the overall building quality. Especially on Palm Jumeirah and Arabian Ranches. Maybe it’s just because of the minuscule number of properties we visited compared to the vast number of de developments in the country. We might have just stumbled upon a few bad examples which would give us a distorted view. Nevertheless some instances were not too good. Cracks appearing in outer walls, terraces that were wobbly, leaky pools, paint layers loosening both outside and inside and not too great quality of interior finishing such as kitchens, bathroom, floors, ceiling etcetera. These properties showed signs of rapid ageing even though they were relatively new. The agents stated that these were minor issues which would all be fully repaired by the developers under warranty, but we wondered why they hadden’t already done that earlier. It would make things easier to sell when everything looks top quality and up to international building standards.


----------



## zoe22

Hi

I hope that someone can help me... I have read some posts in this thread but haven't found my answer... I unfortunately invested in RAK, UAE and have little contact with the developer except when they are asking me for money... the start of the investment was made over 10 years ago... now the property is not what I had initially brought in to and they changes have not been explained to me and I have had to learn about them myself through forums like this and such... if I fail to respond to their second request for payment they have said that they will look into taking legal action... what are my rights? I haven't signed anything with this new company... can I just walk away? Yes that means I lose my money but I'm okay with that.
So... can I just ignore them? Are they likely to take any legal action? I'm not in the UAE.

Thank you for your time.


----------



## loandxb

zoe22 said:


> Hi
> 
> I hope that someone can help me... I have read some posts in this thread but haven't found my answer... I unfortunately invested in RAK, UAE and have little contact with the developer except when they are asking me for money... the start of the investment was made over 10 years ago... now the property is not what I had initially brought in to and they changes have not been explained to me and I have had to learn about them myself through forums like this and such... if I fail to respond to their second request for payment they have said that they will look into taking legal action... what are my rights? I haven't signed anything with this new company... can I just walk away? Yes that means I lose my money but I'm okay with that.
> So... can I just ignore them? Are they likely to take any legal action? I'm not in the UAE.
> 
> Thank you for your time.


Legal action if you're abroad won't result to anything. However, it will most likely prevent you from visiting the UAE ever again, even when just transiting.

This is not a solution that I would recommend. If substantial changes were made to the initial project over the years, there's a chance that a lawyer may be able to get you out of this situation. Just hire a professional and save yourself from potential trouble.


----------



## zoe22

loandxb said:


> Legal action if you're abroad won't result to anything. However, it will most likely prevent you from visiting the UAE ever again, even when just transiting.
> 
> This is not a solution that I would recommend. If substantial changes were made to the initial project over the years, there's a chance that a lawyer may be able to get you out of this situation. Just hire a professional and save yourself from potential trouble.


Thank you


----------



## noir-dresses

zoe22 said:


> Hi
> 
> I hope that someone can help me... I have read some posts in this thread but haven't found my answer... I unfortunately invested in RAK, UAE and have little contact with the developer except when they are asking me for money... the start of the investment was made over 10 years ago... now the property is not what I had initially brought in to and they changes have not been explained to me and I have had to learn about them myself through forums like this and such... if I fail to respond to their second request for payment they have said that they will look into taking legal action... what are my rights? I haven't signed anything with this new company... can I just walk away? Yes that means I lose my money but I'm okay with that.
> So... can I just ignore them? Are they likely to take any legal action? I'm not in the UAE.
> 
> Thank you for your time.


I had a similar situation with a developer approximately the same time frame as yours. 

If the developer didn't deliver on time then they're in breach of the contract. Like I said in a poorly regulated market it's the law of the jungle. It's the regulations job to protect you, and their not capable of doing that one thing their sappose to. Developer will do everything in their power to not refund your money even if they have to manipulate the system. 

Yes you are absolutely justified to walk away from the project, and I would recommend you do so. The developer is just trying to scare you to squeeze more money out of you. Your as free as a whistle so don't worry. 

Legally the developer can't file a criminal case against you, but what they will try to do is take your name off the deed to re sell the property if they can, but most likely won't because if they could they would have finished the project by now. 

You probably own the developer more than the property would be worth now so it's still a win win for you even though you lose your deposit which is sad. 

Good luck


----------



## propertypimp

I got a call from a shady broker today. Offering property from a well known developer. I said i don't have money, he said it's only 10% down and rest is payment plan. I told him i don't have 10%, he then suggested i take a personal loan for the down payment! Apparently he's getting 6% commission for the sale.


----------



## noir-dresses

propertypimp said:


> I got a call from a shady broker today. Offering property from a well known developer. I said i don't have money, he said it's only 10% down and rest is payment plan. I told him i don't have 10%, he then suggested i take a personal loan for the down payment! Apparently he's getting 6% commission for the sale.


I also get occasional calls from these pesty brokers, but the real nuisance is clearing an average ten to twenty spam emails daily. 

Maybe the best response is to lead brokers on to being interested in buying , and asking them to give you a detailed list of all the off plan, and finished properties on the market. Waste all their time and energy into as much foot work, and administrated work as possible, and then some. Make the brokers run around taking additional pictures at the other side of the city, ask developers for bigger discounts, etc, etc. 

Maybe this could help end the brokers laughs at places like Barasti over multiple drinks how Naive investors are, and how easy they are to screw over. I've seen, and heard it to my discust.


----------



## zoe22

noir-dresses said:


> I had a similar situation with a developer approximately the same time frame as yours.
> 
> If the developer didn't deliver on time then they're in breach of the contract. Like I said in a poorly regulated market it's the law of the jungle. It's the regulations job to protect you, and their not capable of doing that one thing their sappose to. Developer will do everything in their power to not refund your money even if they have to manipulate the system.
> 
> Yes you are absolutely justified to walk away from the project, and I would recommend you do so. The developer is just trying to scare you to squeeze more money out of you. Your as free as a whistle so don't worry.
> 
> Legally the developer can't file a criminal case against you, but what they will try to do is take your name off the deed to re sell the property if they can, but most likely won't because if they could they would have finished the project by now.
> 
> You probably own the developer more than the property would be worth now so it's still a win win for you even though you lose your deposit which is sad.
> 
> Good luck


Thank you


----------



## ispcallaghan

Hi Again guys.
I know you are here all expert/investors in Dubai Real Estate Market. I also know the actual situation and We all know everything regarding OFF Plan projects. Anyway I want to bet with all you. There are at least a couple of projects in Dubai that are pretty good and will be delivered in time (unbelievable). Are you able to tell me which one ?????


----------



## ispcallaghan

zoe22 said:


> Hi
> 
> I hope that someone can help me... I have read some posts in this thread but haven't found my answer... I unfortunately invested in RAK, UAE and have little contact with the developer except when they are asking me for money... the start of the investment was made over 10 years ago... now the property is not what I had initially brought in to and they changes have not been explained to me and I have had to learn about them myself through forums like this and such... if I fail to respond to their second request for payment they have said that they will look into taking legal action... what are my rights? I haven't signed anything with this new company... can I just walk away? Yes that means I lose my money but I'm okay with that.
> So... can I just ignore them? Are they likely to take any legal action? I'm not in the UAE.
> 
> Thank you for your time.


Hello.
I also have a property in RAK but I am safe (lucky) in Marjan Island PACIFIC.
I hope you did not buy in BLU MIRAGE.
Anyway I agree lawyers here means money lost


----------



## zoe22

ispcallaghan said:


> Hello.
> I also have a property in RAK but I am safe (lucky) in Marjan Island PACIFIC.
> I hope you did not buy in BLU MIRAGE.
> Anyway I agree lawyers here means money lost


:-(
I'm a first time investor who has learnt a harsh lesson
Thanks for your response


----------



## EightFive

Again, I would NEVER invest unless I had a citizen on tap for legal ownership and representation.


----------



## ispcallaghan

EightFive said:


> Again, I would NEVER invest unless I had a citizen on tap for legal ownership and representation.


I absolutely respect your idea.
Personally I invested, I have my Title DEED and I am safe and OK


----------



## noir-dresses

Just an eye opener why one should never find themselves in unmanageable debt in the UAE 

Be careful and always know when in doubt always know the way out. 









Working for Emirates Airlines could mean arrest, imprisonment and Interpol warrants | eTurboNews | eTN


Like any airline in the world, COVID-19 is putting airline operations on the edge. Emirates had been leading in innovative solutions to make the carrier




www.eturbonews.com


----------



## Tokodo

noir-dresses said:


> Just an eye opener why one should never find themselves in unmanageable debt in the UAE
> 
> Be careful and always know when in doubt always know the way out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working for Emirates Airlines could mean arrest, imprisonment and Interpol warrants | eTurboNews | eTN
> 
> 
> Like any airline in the world, COVID-19 is putting airline operations on the edge. Emirates had been leading in innovative solutions to make the carrier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eturbonews.com


Not knowing what I would read, I clicked on the link. What terrible and horrible story! I never realised that Dubai did not have any decent modern laws to protect it’s residents who end up in bankruptcy during a crisis. What will happen to the many Emirates pilots who lose their jobs and who live in Dubai, often with mortgages, car financing and credit card debts?


----------



## noir-dresses

Who here is following Al Alam apparently a shell subsidiary of Wirecard in Dubai which was closed a month ago before hell broke loose this week. More fraud, and missing billions of USD.


----------



## Dario_sa

I agree that it is not easy if you have a loan and lose your job in the UAE.

On another note, many are showing a lack of responsibility with their tax-free income.

And many took loans and fled the country, increasing borrowing costs and committing fraud.

There are many shades of grey here.

"Just an eye opener why one should never find themselves in unmanageable debt in the UAE"

I agree and would add _in any country you are an expat / guest_


----------



## RichardLR

Hi Guys, I have a question: Has anyone ever successfully gotten a refund and cancelled a purchase from Emaar for a project delay? I see lawyers offering the service, but lawyers will always try to make money even if there is no hope of winning a case.

My situation is that I bought a unit in Elie Saab on Emaar Beachfront. Completion in my SPA is listed as March 30 2023. Recently Emaar launched a new online sales tool and in there the payment plans show handover delayed to October 8th 2024. They are in breach of contract as far as I see it unless they can show Force Majeure since the contract allows for a max delay of 12 months. I believe the real reason is that they were trying to sell all of Tower 2 in one transaction, but that deal fell through due to Coronavirus and now they can't launch T2 on the market and expect healthy sales so decided to delay. 

Mainly I am disappointed with the way that they look after existing customers vs hustling for new customers. There was no communication to apologise for delaying the project. Meantime Beach Isle launched a year later and is already under construction. The way that I found out was in their new sales material (screenshot below) even though the contract says that they must promptly inform of any delay! 

To anyone who hasn't bought, I would strongly recommend buying a ready resale property, since you can go and see it and not be surprised by stuff like this or Dubai Creek Harbour (renders with the Tower and the lovely mangrove nature reserve coming all the way up to the island vs the big ugly tract of land that is actually nearby and empty hole where the tower and mall should be). Not to mention the prices on ready properties are 30% lower now than Emaar are still charging for their off-plan stuff. 

Agents will always pitch off plan first because of the huge commissions. I even suspect that commissions go way over 5% for the real dog projects that no on wants and never sell.


----------



## propertypimp

In Marina/JBR you can buy a 3 bed with a decent view for less than 1.5 million. Even if you spend 200k on full upgrades it's the same cost as a 1 bed in the new off-plan projects nearby. Plus the area is well established and no surprises. Buyers also forget to factor in the time cost. If handover is after 3 years, thats 250k-300k worth of rent that should be added to price. Even if you re-sale a ready property after 2-3 years you may break even or at minimum loss as opposed to off-plan.


----------



## ispcallaghan

RichardLR said:


> Hi Guys, I have a question: Has anyone ever successfully gotten a refund and cancelled a purchase from Emaar for a project delay? I see lawyers offering the service, but lawyers will always try to make money even if there is no hope of winning a case.
> 
> My situation is that I bought a unit in Elie Saab on Emaar Beachfront. Completion in my SPA is listed as March 30 2023. Recently Emaar launched a new online sales tool and in there the payment plans show handover delayed to October 8th 2024. They are in breach of contract as far as I see it unless they can show Force Majeure since the contract allows for a max delay of 12 months. I believe the real reason is that they were trying to sell all of Tower 2 in one transaction, but that deal fell through due to Coronavirus and now they can't launch T2 on the market and expect healthy sales so decided to delay.
> 
> Mainly I am disappointed with the way that they look after existing customers vs hustling for new customers. There was no communication to apologise for delaying the project. Meantime Beach Isle launched a year later and is already under construction. The way that I found out was in their new sales material (screenshot below) even though the contract says that they must promptly inform of any delay!
> 
> To anyone who hasn't bought, I would strongly recommend buying a ready resale property, since you can go and see it and not be surprised by stuff like this or Dubai Creek Harbour (renders with the Tower and the lovely mangrove nature reserve coming all the way up to the island vs the big ugly tract of land that is actually nearby and empty hole where the tower and mall should be). Not to mention the prices on ready properties are 30% lower now than Emaar are still charging for their off-plan stuff.
> 
> Agents will always pitch off plan first because of the huge commissions. I even suspect that commissions go way over 5% for the real dog projects that no on wants and never sell.
> 
> View attachment 228892


Hi Richard,
What you have written is correct 100%. I not want to comment on Emaar Beach Front. But you need answers ..
Unfortunately I think you can not do anything. In the worst scenario they will apply Force Majure and for you hard to win. Of course lawyers say you can win.. because they ask your money in advance. Sorry I think you have no choice .


----------



## Tokodo

Even though we decided to not pursue a property in Dubai for now, we still get offers from agents who keep contacting us. I have already mentioned the bigger and bigger discounts they offer. Nevertheless one proposal that we received yesterday is worth mentioning here. A property agent of an agency that had not contacted us before, offered a “unique” opportunity. If we sign up now and pay a fee, we will be among the first who will be able to select and purchase a waterfront villa at a exclusively discounted price in a big project on Palm Jebel Ali.

We have visited the beachfront hotel nearby the empty project during our stay in Dubai last year. There was no infrastructure an no work going on. This must be a scam, since the entire Palm Jebel Ali looked completely deserted when we were there.


----------



## propertypimp

Tokodo said:


> Even though we decided to not pursue a property in Dubai for now, we still get offers from agents who keep contacting us. I have already mentioned the bigger and bigger discounts they offer. Nevertheless one proposal that we received yesterday is worth mentioning here. A property agent of an agency that had not contacted us before, offered a “unique” opportunity. If we sign up now and pay a fee, we will be among the first who will be able to select and purchase a waterfront villa at a exclusively discounted price in a big project on Palm Jebel Ali.
> 
> We have visited the beachfront hotel nearby the empty project during our stay in Dubai last year. There was no infrastructure an no work going on. This must be a scam, since the entire Palm Jebel Ali looked completely deserted when we were there.


Unless this is a legitimate new project that I'm not aware of, the company should be reported to the authorities, I worry that someone might fall for it. In any case they shouldn't be asking for a fee upfront. Unfortunately contact details get passed around and they target people living abroad.


----------



## ispcallaghan

Tokodo said:


> Even though we decided to not pursue a property in Dubai for now, we still get offers from agents who keep contacting us. I have already mentioned the bigger and bigger discounts they offer. Nevertheless one proposal that we received yesterday is worth mentioning here. A property agent of an agency that had not contacted us before, offered a “unique” opportunity. If we sign up now and pay a fee, we will be among the first who will be able to select and purchase a waterfront villa at a exclusively discounted price in a big project on Palm Jebel Ali.
> 
> We have visited the beachfront hotel nearby the empty project during our stay in Dubai last year. There was no infrastructure an no work going on. This must be a scam, since the entire Palm Jebel Ali looked completely deserted when we were there.


I can not stop smiling ))))))) In 2020 they still try to act in this way.. 
Another example here. During lockdown one Italian potential investor sent a request of information regarding a project to a well known real estate in Dubai. The Italian was in Italy, locked at home. He just wanted informations.. They called him back. After sending him some fake pictures of the project (basically rendering) and a video made with the phone they invited (pushed ) him to send a downpayment and block the unit. Of course he ran away ..
He was abroad.. how can you push him to sign a contract in this way ? This is Wrong attitude!!!


----------



## TheLawyer

I have received a notice from Emaar that the handover is in September. Hope this is true. I am not sure about the sale and rental prices in Creek Harbour at the moment. 

I have created a whatsapp group for all investors in the Creek Habour project so that we can discuss the project and lobby Emaar for discounts/rescheduling handover payment given the delay and current CVOID situation. Join if you are interested.

Whatsapp Group link Creek Harbour Investors


----------



## TheLawyer

I am an investor in one of the Creek Harbour towers and the handover of my unit is September. I am not sure about the sale and rental prices in Creek Harbour at the moment given that the tower and the mall are both on hold. We all invested in this project based on an assumption that both of these strategic projects are going to be built soon. 

I have created a whatsapp group for all investors in the Creek Habour project so that we can discuss projects and try to lobby Emaar for discounts/rescheduling handover payments given the delay, current CVOID situation and the Tower being on hold. Join if you are interested.

Whatsapp Group link Creek Harbour Investors


----------



## TheLawyer

Emaar need to start delivering some of the attractions they promised soon if they want to continue launching projects and selling units in Dubai Creek. Without the creek tower and the promised mall, investors have overpaid for their units in the Creek Harbour.

I have created a whatsapp group for all investors in the Creek Habour project so that we can discuss the progress and share any updates that will help us understand the value of our investments and the progress in the area and maybe arrange joint meetings with Emaar to pressure them to deliver these attractions to protect our investments

Feel free to Join the group if you are intersted









Creek Harbour Investors


WhatsApp Group Invite




chat.whatsapp.com


----------



## noir-dresses

I'm sure there's going to be some bitter investors residing in Dubai not to happy with the leisure ban out of the UAE this summer all the while 49 degree heat sizzles Dubai.


----------



## loandxb

noir-dresses said:


> I'm sure there's going to be some bitter investors residing in Dubai not to happy with the leisure ban out of the UAE this summer all the while 49 degree heat sizzles Dubai.


Investor or not, I think that most people aren't too happy with that. But one could argue that there are bigger problems to worry about these days.


----------



## chefdude

Saudi VAT rate increased by 10% from 5 to 15% on July 1

Sure they won't be the only Gulf region country to implement higher taxes









VAT in the Gulf: Oman becomes 4th State to introduce a VAT system


Vertex is the leading and most-trusted provider of comprehensive, integrated tax technology solutions, having helped 10,000+ businesses since 1978.




blog.taxamo.com


----------



## View2

Emmar offered me 5% annual discount on payments made in advance. The project will be delayed by 1 year or more. I calculated the discounted amount and it was really silly. any thoughts?


----------



## propertypimp

View2 said:


> Emmar offered me 5% annual discount on payments made in advance. The project will be delayed by 1 year or more. I calculated the discounted amount and it was really silly. any thoughts?


That's 5k on every 100k paid. Losing out on one year or more worth of rent in exchange for an accelerated payment plan doesn't sounds like a good deal.


----------



## Berliner01

very exciting judgement



> Developers in Dubai who hand over defective units to property owners will be held accountable – local courts are making sure of that.
> A new judgement, delivered in a case involving one of the city’s top developers, serves as a strong warning that developers cannot compromise on bare minimum standards at the time of handover and even thereafter.
> 
> A top court ordered a developer to pay an owner Dh600,000 for lost rental income for the period 2012-16. This was after the owner found water leakage in his then newly acquired unit, in 2011, and who then asked the developer and the property management company to set it right, according to the law firm representing the owner of the property in the Old Town.
> 
> The defect was found to originate from a Jacuzzi above the owner’s apartment, which even after its replacement, still resulted in water leakage. It was then that the property owner decided to approach the court.
> “According to the law, the plaintiff filed a lawsuit against the developer and the building’s management company, demanding a repair to the leakage and to deliver the property free of defects while also providing a certificate of guarantee,” said Dr. Raisa Abdulrahman of The Legal Group.
> “Moreover, the owner also requested from “indemnification” for non-use of his property since the discovery of the defect, which was serious enough to render the unit improper for its intended use.
> “The court obliged the defendant (the developer) to pay Dh600,000 in compensation for the damage suffered, by calculating the compensation for the annual rent of the unit in the area for four years (from 2012 to 2016) , including the compensation for “moral damages”.”
> 
> The property owner has now seen fit to escalate the issue even further. A fresh legal claim was filed before the court against the developer and building management company, for compensation related to damages from 2017 until now. This is because the water leakage continues even now.
> “The client filed another case to claim compensation because he still can’t use his apartment to live in it, or rent it, or sell it,” said Dr. Raisa.
> 
> Winning a judgement against a developer is not easy… nor a quick one.
> In this particular case, lower court found in favour of the property owner and awarded Dh600,000 in damages. But when the developer filed for a review in the appeal court, that court eventually ruled in favour of the developer.
> It was then that the Court of Cassation – the top court - transferred the case to another appeals court with a different committee of judges. This court “finally confirmed the decision of the first court and awarded the compensation,” the lawyer added. “So, there were four phases - first court, the appeal court, the cassation court and then the appeal court.”











Dubai court awards property owner Dh600,000 for water leakage


Developer found to be at fault for constant water leakage and ordered to compensate




gulfnews.com


----------



## Rider

Does anyone have any experience of filing a case from abroad against a non paying tenant? It seems crazy that I have to fly to Dubai every time an issue with a tenant arises. Is there a possibility to use a PoA firm or is this more expensive than travelling to UAE?


----------



## noir-dresses

This is worse and moving faster than I even predicted. 

After S&P rated Damac in March as junk graded investment now they have also given DIFC, and Emaar a junk rated investment grade. 

We already knew Arab Tech was in difficulties losing like never before. Banks are also feeling the pressure. 

Anyone still wanting to buy hold out a little longer while Dubai finishes rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic cause this ship is sinking.


----------



## Losh100

noir-dresses said:


> This is worse and moving faster than I even predicted.
> 
> After S&P rated Damac in March as junk graded investment now they have also given DIFC, and Emaar a junk rated investment grade.
> 
> We already knew Arab Tech was in difficulties losing like never before. Banks are also feeling the pressure.
> 
> Anyone still wanting to buy hold out a little longer while Dubai finishes rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic cause this ship is sinking.


That exactly reminds me what people were saying in 2010 about Dubai (i.e. it will become desert again). Then, prices doubled from 2011 to 2014, and the city doubled in size and attractions. I'm not here to defend, but taking things personally and aggressively against Dubai during this worldwide crisis, makes no sense.

I'm not here for long conversations, however, I will get back here in 2022-2024. People losing jobs, yeah, but when the job offers opened again, people will come to Dubai to work again. By the end of the day, those people are not going to Mars. 

All the best


----------



## noir-dresses

Losh100 said:


> That exactly reminds me what people were saying in 2010 about Dubai (i.e. it will become desert again). Then, prices doubled from 2011 to 2014, and the city doubled in size and attractions. I'm not here to defend, but taking things personally and aggressively against Dubai during this worldwide crisis, makes no sense.
> 
> I'm not here for long conversations, however, I will get back here in 2022-2024. People losing jobs, yeah, but when the job offers opened again, people will come to Dubai to work again. By the end of the day, those people are not going to Mars.
> 
> All the best


Illusions and grandeur don't cut it, only the brutal truth, and timing puts the investor ahead of the curve.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

Losh100 said:


> That exactly reminds me what people were saying in 2010 about Dubai (i.e. it will become desert again). Then, prices doubled from 2011 to 2014, and the city doubled in size and attractions. I'm not here to defend, but taking things personally and aggressively against Dubai during this worldwide crisis, makes no sense.
> 
> I'm not here for long conversations, however, I will get back here in 2022-2024. People losing jobs, yeah, but when the job offers opened again, people will come to Dubai to work again. By the end of the day, those people are not going to Mars.
> 
> All the best


The problem seems to be that so much of the economy hinges on the act of building yet new super-projects, despite it not being economically profitable. Dubai can't keep building luxury villas and apartments and offices and retail space at this pace if it isn't met with an influx of tenants at the same pace. There is an over-supply of real estate, yet the developers keep building, (because?) the construction companies can't stop building or they'll have to scale down and lose a lot of money - money on which the banking sector hinges. 

The 2011 to 2014 growth spurt seems to have been an attempt to bring back the boom days of 2006, and a subsequent realization that "build it and they will come" has its limits. There won't always be people queued up to buy apartments in Dubai, and the days of people buying at the front of the line to sell at a massive profit at the back certainly aren't coming back. Yet all the developers seem to remember 2006 and only regret that they didn't have enough apartments to sell back then, so they want to have a steady stock when the golden days come back. "When the prices shoot back up, we'll make billions!". As if that will ever happen. And if they have borrowed money on that assumption, well, there go the banks as well. 

Dubai got where it is by promising something extraordinary, then building it as the world watched in awe. But that's a trick that can't be repeated forever, and in recent years it seems like a steadily increasing fraction of the promises have turned out too expensive for reality. And what happens to the city of the extraordinary if it can't keep building the extraordinary? For a start, the real estate prices won't remain at extraordinary levels, especially if the supply keeps increasing. Dubai can't continue booming and still make money. But it can't stop booming either, or it will also lose money. It's a conundrum I'll continue to follow with fascination - from a very safe distance.


----------



## Dario_sa

Isn't this correction a win for Dubai in the long run?

I agree with the narrative that the oversupply has created a surplus in the range of thousands of units.

I am not happy that some investors are suffering.

However, my rent has decreased significantly. People will accept lower packages, knowing that the rent ( No. 1 expense in the family budget) will be manageable.

Companies will set up their offices in the tax-friendly DIFC. Knowing that their cost per head is lower than in Singapore or HK due to the significantly lower rent as well. Surely, this applies to a post COVID normalised world, not the current dire reality we all live in. Singapore's GDP dropped around 40% in Q2.

High rent was a deterrent for freelancers to reside in Dubai. Potentially with significantly lower rent, working from home in one of the safest cities in the world, with world-class infrastructure and top outdoor options + variety of beaches, Dubai isn't that bad as a temporary or permanent stop ? Again, this applies to a time after the tsunami of economic destruction leaves the travel, real estate and tourism industry and reveals the magnitude of damage.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

Dubai will probably remain attractive as a place to live in the Middle East, but it is an island of stability in a very tense region. Being situated between blocks of heavily armed countries that don't like each other very much might be better than being situated inside any of those countries, but anybody seeking long-term stability would probably have an easier time somewhere far away. Sure, it's beneficial to be located close to centers of trade, but much of the trade in the region is centered around a single commodity that's rapidly losing its value. There's also the climate which many foreigners would find intolerable for at least some months of the year, and, well ... politics. To condense it to a hopefully non-controversial summary, when a lot of the state's power is found in the hands of single individuals, who aren't beholden to an electorate, drastic changes may happen quickly and without warning. Was there much public debate about the introduction and sudden increase of VAT, for instance? Could other tax increases or sudden restrictions come out of the blue? There's always some volatility inherent in systems where those who write the rules have the power to change them suddenly without anybody being able to protest. Granted, you see that in Hong Kong too nowadays, and shades of it in Singapore, but I personally would be very wary about investing anywhere without a healthy public discourse and transparent politics.


----------



## ispcallaghan

Hi Guys,
I am sure there is no perfect place to live in this world.. and maybe neither the best place to invest lol..
The situation in Dubai Is very bad but it will recover faster because Dubai is SMALL. Of course lower rent and cost of life is welcome for people but we expect more from government.
During the lockdown I received a lot of enquires from Italy (my country) and also from Italians living already abroad that want to come here. 
Another thing : investment is not only money but also quality of life. 
Do you follow football? I hope so. Few days ago thieves went is the apartment of Frank RIBERY, a famous football player who is playing actually in Fiorentina the team of FLORENCE (beautiful Italian city). They stole everything from his apartment.. He posted an interview where he said :"We will consider what to do for our health and safety" regarding if he will renew the contract with the team..
Last week I left my ROLEX on the sun bed on the beach in Five Hotel the Palm. I was stupid but I forgot my watch for few hours (I was distracted but some beautiful ladies eh eh). After this I came back and my Rolex was still there. This is quality of life..
Have a nice day guys


----------



## EightFive

Lol minor thieving is your argument?


----------



## noir-dresses

ispcallaghan said:


> Hi Guys,
> I am sure there is no perfect place to live in this world.. and maybe neither the best place to invest lol..
> The situation in Dubai Is very bad but it will recover faster because Dubai is SMALL. Of course lower rent and cost of life is welcome for people but we expect more from government.
> During the lockdown I received a lot of enquires from Italy (my country) and also from Italians living already abroad that want to come here.
> Another thing : investment is not only money but also quality of life.
> Do you follow football? I hope so. Few days ago thieves went is the apartment of Frank RIBERY, a famous football player who is playing actually in Fiorentina the team of FLORENCE (beautiful Italian city). They stole everything from his apartment.. He posted an interview where he said :"We will consider what to do for our health and safety" regarding if he will renew the contract with the team..
> Last week I left my ROLEX on the sun bed on the beach in Five Hotel the Palm. I was stupid but I forgot my watch for few hours (I was distracted but some beautiful ladies eh eh). After this I came back and my Rolex was still there. This is quality of life..
> Have a nice day guys


It just took one twisted developer, and a poorly regulated real estate sector to break my aplomb towards that market into match sticks. I still did good off loading other property before the end of 2014 because it was evident to me what was coming. 

I'm happy to hear your happy ending with your Rolex. Unfortunately one developer swindled me that I could have bought 20 Rolexs. Neither do I have keys to an apartment nor did I get a refund. 

At the center of the spiders web there they seem to always know the cost of absolutely everything but never the value of anything. 

What's coming will make 2009 seem like a walk in the park so be careful people.


----------



## lilyz

I initially invested in off-plan property with Azizi, 3 years ago, surprise surprise the project was cancelled.... I had to transfer my investment to another project with said same developer at a loss, and even that's been delayed by over a year. 

To top that off the value of real estate has decreased significantly (albeit a global issue), as supply continues to increase in UAE... With demand failing to match up.

We'll see if the sector ever recovers, because fundamental changes in policy (immigration + off-plan developments) need to be implemented in order to stimulate growth within real estate.


----------



## RichardLR

Dubai will require a negative COVID test to enter from August 1st. We plan to visit for 10 days in early October and have booked hotels but will cancel if this is still required. It makes stopovers very unattractive and I would imagine will not help tourism recover. The test itself is not very pleasant and needing to specifically go to a clinic within a certain timeframe means you would need a good reason to go to Dubai rather than just wanting a casual holiday.


----------



## loandxb

RichardLR said:


> Dubai will require a negative COVID test to enter from August 1st. We plan to visit for 10 days in early October and have booked hotels but will cancel if this is still required. It makes stopovers very unattractive and I would imagine will not help tourism recover. The test itself is not very pleasant and needing to specifically go to a clinic within a certain timeframe means you would need a good reason to go to Dubai rather than just wanting a casual holiday.


Tourists can take the test for free upon arrival if I'm not mistaken. The ones who need a test done at an approved lab less than a few days prior boarding are the residents stuck abroad. I was tested at DXB recently, it was painless and took less than a minute. A little bit uncomfortable, but it looks worse than it actually is.

Personally, I prefer that the UAE reopens early by testing everyone coming in and out, rather than having to wait for months for no reason.


----------



## EightFive

If they test you at the airport, you are going to have to quarantine somewhere for a few days for the test to come back. What a great vacation!


----------



## loandxb

EightFive said:


> If they test you at the airport, you are going to have to quarantine somewhere for a few days for the test to come back. What a great vacation!


It takes on average 24-48 hours for the results to come. Indeed it's a little bit of an inconvenience, but it's not like you need to quarantine for a week either.

Maybe you'd prefer to have positive people come from abroad, roam freely and make local cases skyrocket a second time. Since this is an investment thread, I would expect everyone on here to know that the few short term benefits of doing this would be outweighed tenfolds by the economical disaster that would follow slightly after in case of another lockdown.

It's in everyone's interest to alleviate COVID once and for all. The UAE is adopting the only proven method of controlling the pandemic, which is to test the population heavily, as well as everyone coming in and out. Choosing to ignore the problem like the EU does would mean having to go on lockdown a second time down the road, which Dubai's economy in particular cannot afford.


----------



## EightFive

My point is such a delay is equivalent to taking your tourism sector out back and blowing its head off with a shotgun.

People will not come. 


Also, choosing to ignore like the eu? The eu is by far miles ahead of the uae in any measure. ANY measure.


----------



## Tokodo

noir-dresses said:


> It just took one twisted developer, and a poorly regulated real estate sector to break my aplomb towards that market into match sticks. I still did good off loading other property before the end of 2014 because it was evident to me what was coming.
> 
> I'm happy to hear your happy ending with your Rolex. Unfortunately one developer swindled me that I could have bought 20 Rolexs. Neither do I have keys to an apartment nor did I get a refund.
> 
> At the center of the spiders web there they seem to always know the cost of absolutely everything but never the value of anything.
> 
> What's coming will make 2009 seem like a walk in the park so be careful people.


For us it’s still difficult to picture the situation really worsening in Dubai. It seems to be such an extremely wealthy place! When we were in Dubai we watched an interview with the ruler of the country in which he stated that Dubai presently, is only just about 10% of his total vision for the country. So only imagine what it will be like when his vision is all completed. It will be like nothing else in the world. 

We also watched so many expats in our hotel bar and in the hotel gardens, having parties with expensive bottles of champagne, flowing like rivers and lobsters and caviar being served in big quantities. Many of them arriving in beautiful luxury cars. Their great wealth seemed very obvious. Or is it all more an illusion of wealth based on irresponsible spending and debt?


----------



## chefdude

Tokodo said:


> For us it’s still difficult to picture the situation really worsening in Dubai. It seems to be such an extremely wealthy place! When we were in Dubai we watched an interview with the ruler of the country in which he stated that Dubai presently, is only just about 10% of his total vision for the country. So only imagine what it will be like when his vision is all completed. It will be like nothing else in the world.
> 
> We also watched so many expats in our hotel bar and in the hotel gardens, having parties with expensive bottles of champagne, flowing like rivers and lobsters and caviar being served in big quantities. Many of them arriving in beautiful luxury cars. Their great wealth seemed very obvious. Or is it all more an illusion of wealth based on irresponsible spending and debt?


*This* "Or is it all more an illusion of wealth based on irresponsible spending and debt?"

It's all very well having a grand vision, but if there is nobody that advises you with the good sense and balls to say NO that's too much it won't be sustainable, then a Grand vision can turn to a Grand Folly. Dubai can only continue to grow in a world where investment and spending are not an issue, which is the polar opposite of the world that we see in 2020


SaveShare
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----------



## Rustamsalehin

*Dubai property developer Nakheel in talks to refinance debt - sources*
Refinancing would include debt Nakheel raised for the development of its Deira Mall project
DUBAI - Dubai property developer Nakheel has approached banks to refinance outstanding debt, sources said, amid an economic downturn which is exacerbating property oversupply problems and has raised concerns over Dubai's debt sustainability.

Dubai property developer Nakheel in talks to refinance debt - sources


----------



## farnush

Just wanted to seek the opinion of the experts here. I am considering to buy a home for us in Dubai. I have been always weary of service charges and I wanted to understand what a reasonable acceptable level 

Considering that service charges are so high in Dubai, I wanted to understand which community projects / areas have the least service charges. Is there any website that we can refer for Dubai service charges.


----------



## driverpete

farnush said:


> Just wanted to seek the opinion of the experts here. I am considering to buy a home for us in Dubai. I have been always weary of service charges and I wanted to understand what a reasonable acceptable level
> 
> Considering that service charges are so high in Dubai, I wanted to understand which community projects / areas have the least service charges. Is there any website that we can refer for Dubai service charges.


Try dubailand.gov.ae


----------



## EightFive

farnush said:


> Just wanted to seek the opinion of the experts here. I am considering to buy a home for us in Dubai. I have been always weary of service charges and I wanted to understand what a reasonable acceptable level
> 
> Considering that service charges are so high in Dubai, I wanted to understand which community projects / areas have the least service charges. Is there any website that we can refer for Dubai service charges.


if you are not a citizen it makes zero sense to buy in dubai. you will always be a second class person there.


----------



## ispcallaghan

farnush said:


> Just wanted to seek the opinion of the experts here. I am considering to buy a home for us in Dubai. I have been always weary of service charges and I wanted to understand what a reasonable acceptable level
> 
> Considering that service charges are so high in Dubai, I wanted to understand which community projects / areas have the least service charges. Is there any website that we can refer for Dubai service charges.


Hello.
-Your request is a bit too much generally.. too much projects here and is not clear what you want to do.

An average acceptable prices for service charges in a good building could be 15 dh/ square foot
I am not sure there are too many experts in this forum. For sure there is people who made bad investments and made their research later. For example you can not invest in Dubai and buy Azizi .. Be smart


----------



## propertypimp

farnush said:


> Just wanted to seek the opinion of the experts here. I am considering to buy a home for us in Dubai. I have been always weary of service charges and I wanted to understand what a reasonable acceptable level
> 
> Considering that service charges are so high in Dubai, I wanted to understand which community projects / areas have the least service charges. Is there any website that we can refer for Dubai service charges.


I think you should be looking at higher yield rather than lower service charge. By that I mean high occupancy / demand areas where the purchase price is low relative to the minimum achievable rent. Service charge is just one component in the big picture. Example villa SC generally are AED 4 approx. but you may get only 4-%-5% yield because entry price is relatively higher. And prices move in tandem with rents.
Even as an end-user you have to consider your investment along those lines.


----------



## noir-dresses

propertypimp said:


> I think you should be looking at higher yield rather than lower service charge. By that I mean high occupancy / demand areas where the purchase price is low relative to the minimum achievable rent. Service charge is just one component in the big picture. Example villa SC generally are AED 4 approx. but you may get only 4-%-5% yield because entry price is relatively higher. And prices move in tandem with rents.
> Even as an end-user you have to consider your investment along those lines.


Good answer regarding ROI but I would also include the possibility of depreciation any investment would have. 

Let's face the truth we have peak oil and their fundamental source of bread and butter isn't going to rise in the foreseeable future.


----------



## loandxb

noir-dresses said:


> Good answer regarding ROI but I would also include the possibility of depreciation any investment would have.
> 
> Let's face the truth we have peak oil and their fundamental source of bread and butter isn't going to rise in the foreseeable future.


If you are talking about Dubai, you should know that the oil industry is insignificant here and we have almost no oil reserves compared to Abu Dhabi. So if your comment was about AD real estate, then I agree with it. In Dubai, however, I would say that oil is far from a "fundamental source of bread and butter." That would rather be tourism, aviation and finance. Not that these sectors are doing particularly well these days either, though.


----------



## noir-dresses

loandxb said:


> If you are talking about Dubai, you should know that the oil industry is insignificant here and we have almost no oil reserves compared to Abu Dhabi. So if your comment was about AD real estate, then I agree with it. In Dubai, however, I would say that oil is far from a "fundamental source of bread and butter." That would rather be tourism, aviation and finance. Not that these sectors are doing particularly well these days either, though.


We know Dubai has minimum reserves of oil, but the big spenders in the region who do have oil, and who are the significant big spenders in Dubai are feeling the head winds.

Just compare oil prices since 2014, and Dubai real estate price decline and enough is said regarding oil price being insignificant.


loandxb said:


> If you are talking about Dubai, you should know that the oil industry is insignificant here and we have almost no oil reserves compared to Abu Dhabi. So if your comment was about AD real estate, then I agree with it. In Dubai, however, I would say that oil is far from a "fundamental source of bread and butter." That would rather be tourism, aviation and finance. Not that these sectors are doing particularly well these days either, though.


We know Dubai has minimum reserves of oil, but the big spenders in the region who do have oil, and who are the significant big spenders in Dubai are feeling the head winds. 

Just compare oil prices since 2014, and Dubai real estate price decline and enough is said regarding oil price being insignificant.


----------



## EightFive

loandxb said:


> If you are talking about Dubai, you should know that the oil industry is insignificant here and we have almost no oil reserves compared to Abu Dhabi. So if your comment was about AD real estate, then I agree with it. In Dubai, however, I would say that oil is far from a "fundamental source of bread and butter." That would rather be tourism, aviation and finance. Not that these sectors are doing particularly well these days either, though.


Im betting like 90% of the money spent in dubai comes from oil.


----------



## Richard Head

I'll take that bet. It's very obviously nowhere close to that amount.


----------



## noir-dresses

I remember talking about Dubai's oil reserves/production on another aviation forum. 

It was said Dubai only produces enough oil daily now if it were refined to jet fuel it could only tank up six A380 Super Jumbo planes in Emirates fleet. 

Not sure how things stand now, but around a year ago I read Dubai discovered some more oil, not sure about the details. 

Anyway I also don't think the economy depends on 90 percent oil, but to say it isn't dependent is an under statement because it does. It's like saying a bar is not dependent on selling alcohol, they can get buy selling coffee, tea, soft drinks, and finger foods. I for a fact know that a huge chunk of Emirates Airlines first, and businesses class ticket sales up front are reliant on the the oil and gas industry. 

It's very simple mathematics if the surrounding oil and gas producers are in deficit due to oil prices being low, and can't balance their budgets having to burn through sovereign reserves, or issue debt through bonds/souks including Abu Dhabi then obviously they have less to invest in Dubai. Just last week Oman blocked further investments in UAE due to low oil prices , and let's say dwindling political fall outs. 

Anyway regarding the local media's parrot talking points not giving true facts, but trying to put a different polish on the reality of a six year slump in the real estate market. I can't take the local media nor brokers seriously because to me they come across like a social media platform such as Facebook presenting only what they want us to see, and perceive when in reality it's all fluff for grass eaters. 

Very simple if one invests now what are they really getting in return? "Show me the Money" where, and how in a business cycle slump, low oil, real estate glut, and fragile egos.


----------



## EightFive

Richard Head said:


> I'll take that bet. It's very obviously nowhere close to that amount.


Fine, oil or oil adjacent industries (unnecessary luxury, sex slaves, ect.)


----------



## lilyz

ispcallaghan said:


> For sure there is people who made bad investments and made their research later. For example you can not invest in Dubai and buy Azizi .. Be smart


I second this, if I had the chance to start over I would not have invested in Azizi, across multiple different projects... Their project in Victoria has been unofficially cancelled, and they constantly fail to deliver on deadlines...

They are going to need to produce something pretty special in Riviera for me to change my mind.


----------



## propertypimp

In my opinion it's not just about a particular developer. Buying offplan is generally risky especially in a down market where you don't have cashflow/rent to cushion the price drops. Payment plans are meaningless when you lose 30% of your equity on a handover after 3 years. Whereas for a ready property the same 3 year period would fetch a modest 15% cash back. I would prefer a reasonable mortgage on a ready property over an offplan payment plan. Or it's even better to find a different investment altogether if I don't have the full price of a property.


----------



## noir-dresses

Like I said the bread and butter is in survival mode selling off State assets. 

This doesn't just show how desperate the financial situation is, but also shows that AD has next to no liquid capital. 









China To Expand Its Influence In The Middle East With Major Oil Deal | OilPrice.com


China continues to expand its influence in the Middle East through oil and infrastructure deals, and the latest deal with ADNOC is a great example of how Beijing looks to grow its presence in the offshore oil business




oilprice.com


----------



## Richard Head

EightFive said:


> Fine, oil or oil adjacent industries (unnecessary luxury, sex slaves, ect.)



Ah OK, so you just want to keep redefining your 'bet' until you find one you stand a chance of winning.Solid winning strategy but you're still a long way off. You'll need to add Logistics, retail, tourism, manufacturing and a few others and you might be getting close.


----------



## EightFive

Logistics? Eh not really.
Retail, yes, spending that oil money.
Tourism, same boat. 
Manufacturing? El Oh El.


----------



## Tokodo

We decided not to pursue a property in Dubai after receiving a lot of very useful advice here. The lack of regulation, often bad building quality, realtors who seem more like property cowboys than real estate professionals and the shady property developer dealings have put us off all together. We always thought Dubai had a well regulated property market that offers building quality up to the highest international standards and world class regulatory institutions for the legal protection of property owners. It seems we were very wrong. Especially after reading the terrible ordeals people ended up in with RERA and the hefty sudden rises in service charges.

We still get offers from agents. With the discounts being bigger and bigger with every annoying and pushy call. The villa we looked at in Arabian Ranches last year is now being offered for 47% less. Nevertheless one proposal that we received yesterday for the second time is worth highlighting. An agency offered a “unique” opportunity. If we sign up now and pay a fee, we will be among the first who will be able to select and purchase a waterfront villa at a exclusively discounted price in a big project on Palm Jebel Ali. Handover in 2024.

We have visited the nearby beachfront hotel during our stay in Dubai last year. There was no infrastructure and no work going on at Palm Jebel Ali. Just an empty massive land reclamation project. This must be a scam, since the entire project looked completely deserted when we were there. It has been lying there for over 10 years now, while nothing has happened. 

What we find most shocking is that the government of Dubai does not seem to aspire to structural changes that could improve the reputation of the real estate sector. It’s such an important industry for the country. But with its reputation getting worse and worse, Dubai really seems to be damaging it’s own economy.


----------



## EightFive

Because they need to make their money back, and dont give a shit what happens in 10 years.


----------



## Tokodo

cmajewsk said:


> Is that true? If so, why are they continuing to build there?


They are indeed continueing to build there, but from what we saw during our visit last year, construction seems to be focused on the few remaining empty sections where the property density is significantly lower and where the terrain has had many more years to settle properly. Most of the other areas carry much more villa’s than the original plans presented to prospective buyers in the early 2000’s.

The Dutch company Van Oord, who created the island, stated after they studied the redesign with many more properties added, that their surface weight distribution calculations were not made with that many properties on Palm Jumeirah. Therefore they withdrew most of their contractual warranties. Nakheel started legal proceedings, but lost because Van Oord had made provisions in their contracts to cover overbuilding by Nakheel and the subsequent liabilities. Shortly after that Van Oord left Dubai all together, because they hadn’t been paid for over a year.

We visited multiple properties for sale on Palm Jumeirah and noticed the problems in the areas with the highest density. Cracks in driveways, walls, floors and ceilings. Leaks in swimming pools and plumbing issues due to cracked connections in underground pipes. Even the intensive vibro compaction hadn’t been able to tackle the problem. In some of the cases, the owners took legal action against Nakheel and after a lot of hassle, repairs were carried out, but those turned out to be more cosmetic touching up than structural improvements and are still clearly visible for the trained eye.

A British lady who later sought media attention in Europe for what had happened to the property she bought off plan on Palm Jumeirah, demonstrated it all in the best and easiest way possible. On BBC News back then, she explained that she bought a freestanding villa with a lush garden and ample space surrounding her dream property. The reality now was, that she and her neighbour could open their kitchen windows and pass an egg, not even throwing it, without having to leave their house.


----------



## Slimbo

Tokodo said:


> The Dutch company Van Oord, who created the island, *stated* after they studied the redesign with many more properties added, that their surface weight distribution calculations were not made with that many properties on Palm Jumeirah.


Do you have any links to this statement?



Tokodo said:


> Shortly after that Van Oord left Dubai all together, because they hadn’t been paid for over a year.


Except of course, they've had vessels operating in Dubai ever since, and are currently doing the Dubai Harbour project. In fact, in the Press Release for the Dubai Harbour project, they stated: "Van Oord has been working virtually non-stop in Dubai since 2001."

Not only that, they continued to work for Nakheel on Palm Jumeirah: Award for beach profiling work Palm Jumeirah


----------



## EightFive

You link an article from 2012?


----------



## Tokodo

Slimbo said:


> Do you have any links to this statement?
> 
> Except of course, they've had vessels operating in Dubai ever since, and are currently doing the Dubai Harbour project. In fact, in the Press Release for the Dubai Harbour project, they stated: "Van Oord has been working virtually non-stop in Dubai since 2001."
> 
> Not only that, they continued to work for Nakheel on Palm Jumeirah: Award for beach profiling work Palm Jumeirah


The statement was big news in Dutch media after Dubai collapsed and Dubai World defaulted on loans. It was around the time when Abu Dhabi stepped in to save Dubai and the Burj Dubai was renamed to Burj Khalifa. The statement became public in The Netherlands after the court testimonies from Van Oord executives at the time of the lawsuit that Nakheel filed in The Netherlands against Van Oord. These should still be available to see in the public court records in The Netherlands. For some reason most of this lawsuit never reached the Dubai press.

Van Oord did indeed return to Dubai after they left. Hence the very clever wording “virtually non-stop” in their press release. But the return was under changed conditions. The Dutch government guaranteed 50% payment of contracts in Dubai through a Dutch export guarantee program. The other 50% had to be prepaid by Dubai before any Dutch company would start working there again. This program was initiated to assist companies such as Van Oord during the economic aftershocks of the financial crisis. This was a great help for Dutch companies. Many of them were left in financial limbo when Dubai collapsed and Dubai World, Nakheel and other Dubai entities hadn’t payed their bills for an extended period. The Dutch press revealed that the Dubai government initially did not like this arrangement at all and refused to agree. But they eventually did after the Belgian land reclamation company Jan de Nul Group also left Dubai, due to non payment of multiple instalments for the Palm Jebel Ali project. They also returned to Dubai under a similar guarantee program initiated by the Belgium government.

In the end it was a good solution, since Dubai turned out to be much less creditworthy than anybody would have ever expected based on the seemingly endless wealth of the country. Nevertheless companies could only take on smaller projects, since there was a limit to the sums that the Dutch and Belgian governments would guarantee. Therefore The Universe
and The Palm Deira projects never came off the ground, since it was considered too much of a risk to guarantee by both the Dutch and Belgium government. Nobody at that time knew if Abu Dhabi would bail out Dubai completely. I think the donation of Burj Dubai to Abu Dhabi was the first signal that Dubai would be rescued by its big brother and that Dubai would start paying it’s bills again.

Let’s hope that Dubai companies learned from the near collapse of the country. Although some news reports about the financial soundness of Nakheel are slightly worrying. Such as this recent article:









Dubai's Nakheel in talks to refinance debt: Sources - ET RealEstate


State-owned Nakheel, developer of Dubai's palm-shaped islands, was forced into a massive debt restructuring in the aftermath of the emirate's 2009-2010 real estate crash, when the company was one of the hardest hit.




realty.economictimes.indiatimes.com





Is it starting to happen al over again?


----------



## Timalstom

Yes it’s happening again. Just returned home to the United Kingdom after working for Nakheel since well before the previous crisis. I was let go with many of my colleagues. We all took big mandatory pay cuts when the Corona crisis started, but Nakheel did not even have the money to pay our reduced salaries. Many of us are still owed months of salary. Never dared to post here because of the strict UAE laws and VPN ban. But safely back home I can tell you that the mess at Nakheel is big. They never really repayed the most old debts. They just kept trying to restructure and keep moving them around their many divisions. They even took on more loans the last years. If you think the NMC/UAE Exchange bankruptcy was a big thing; just wait for what will come out at Nakheel. It will not be pretty.


----------



## EightFive

Its foolish to take a job in the uae if you are not a citizen.


----------



## dxbpropinvestor

People are still buying.....transactions have picked up significantly. On a personal level i managed to sell a villa in JGE for a nice little profit to an end user after receiving multiple offers. It was on the market for less than week. Having said that i am still trying to reconcile the increase in transactions to pre-covid levels that has happened to quickly especially in light of the job losses/ salary cuts and overall economic uncertainty. Also when i think its a bad time to invest it usually ends up being the best time and i've missed the opportunity! Perhaps we have reached the bottom of the market in terms of prices....


----------



## Rustamsalehin

*Can Dubai enter the premier league of financial centres?*
I*t will need to adapt to a less globalised world, and clean up its act*
Aug 22nd 2020
The deal to normalise relations between Israel and the United Arab Emirates (uae), announced on August 13th, was a diplomatic coup. Might it be a commercial one too? 
*Moneymen in Dubai, the uae’s largest financial centre, are hoping to cash in on increased investment and travel between the two countries.* Israelis are expected to join the hordes of well-heeled foreigners who have opened businesses or bought swanky pads in the coastal emirate.

Can Dubai enter the premier league of financial centres?


----------



## propertypimp

dxbpropinvestor said:


> People are still buying.....transactions have picked up significantly. On a personal level i managed to sell a villa in JGE for a nice little profit to an end user after receiving multiple offers. It was on the market for less than week. Having said that i am still trying to reconcile the increase in transactions to pre-covid levels that has happened to quickly especially in light of the job losses/ salary cuts and overall economic uncertainty. Also when i think its a bad time to invest it usually ends up being the best time and i've missed the opportunity! Perhaps we have reached the bottom of the market in terms of prices....


Agreed on the transactions picking up. I hear that Properties bought in April/March have had some appreciation since. Although in fact most investments made in lockdown have gone up Gold/Oil/Equities etc.

What year did you buy, or was it a quick flip?


----------



## lilyz

dxbpropinvestor said:


> People are still buying.....transactions have picked up significantly. On a personal level i managed to sell a villa in JGE for a nice little profit to an end user after receiving multiple offers. It was on the market for less than week. Having said that i am still trying to reconcile the increase in transactions to pre-covid levels that has happened to quickly especially in light of the job losses/ salary cuts and overall economic uncertainty. Also when i think its a bad time to invest it usually ends up being the best time and i've missed the opportunity! Perhaps we have reached the bottom of the market in terms of prices....


Bottom of the market? you do realise there are still tens of thousands of units expected to come into market supply within the next year... with COVID being the catalyst for the decreased demand.

Very optimistic of you, however.


----------



## RichardLR

If this rule is still in effect we won't come to Dubai as planned in October:

"You may need to take another COVID-19 PCR test on arrival. If you take a test at the airport, you must remain in your hotel or residence until you receive the test result. If the test result is positive, you will be required to undergo isolation and follow the Dubai Health Authority guidelines. "

We wanted to go to Istanbul for a few days, then on to Dubai for 10 days, then to Asia, then back to Dubai, then home. This would mean a few compulsory tests (on arrival and departure each time I assume) but also a big risk and lots of stress, because if you happen to test positive (false or real positive)...then your holiday is ruined. Much better to go somewhere else. 

I understand that lots of people have the view that the stricter the better with COVID restrictions (I don't have that view), but Dubai will have less tourists while they have this rule and the economy will not bounce back to previous levels. Keep in mind that very few countries require a negative test result for ALL visitors - even those coming from "safe" countries. 

I personally hope they cancel the negative test requirement soon, but I guess it's unlikely.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

RichardLR said:


> If this rule is still in effect we won't come to Dubai as planned in October:
> 
> "You may need to take another COVID-19 PCR test on arrival. If you take a test at the airport, you must remain in your hotel or residence until you receive the test result. If the test result is positive, you will be required to undergo isolation and follow the Dubai Health Authority guidelines. "
> 
> We wanted to go to Istanbul for a few days, then on to Dubai for 10 days, then to Asia, then back to Dubai, then home. This would mean a few compulsory tests (on arrival and departure each time I assume) but also a big risk and lots of stress, because if you happen to test positive (false or real positive)...then your holiday is ruined. Much better to go somewhere else.
> 
> I understand that lots of people have the view that the stricter the better with COVID restrictions (I don't have that view), but Dubai will have less tourists while they have this rule and the economy will not bounce back to previous levels. Keep in mind that very few countries require a negative test result for ALL visitors - even those coming from "safe" countries.
> 
> I personally hope they cancel the negative test requirement soon, but I guess it's unlikely.


International travel in general at the moment is ... not a good idea. Might as well stay home so you can have the option next year.


----------



## loandxb

RichardLR said:


> If this rule is still in effect we won't come to Dubai as planned in October:
> 
> "You may need to take another COVID-19 PCR test on arrival. If you take a test at the airport, you must remain in your hotel or residence until you receive the test result. If the test result is positive, you will be required to undergo isolation and follow the Dubai Health Authority guidelines. "
> 
> We wanted to go to Istanbul for a few days, then on to Dubai for 10 days, then to Asia, then back to Dubai, then home. This would mean a few compulsory tests (on arrival and departure each time I assume) but also a big risk and lots of stress, because if you happen to test positive (false or real positive)...then your holiday is ruined. Much better to go somewhere else.
> 
> I understand that lots of people have the view that the stricter the better with COVID restrictions (I don't have that view), but Dubai will have less tourists while they have this rule and the economy will not bounce back to previous levels. Keep in mind that very few countries require a negative test result for ALL visitors - even those coming from "safe" countries.
> 
> I personally hope they cancel the negative test requirement soon, but I guess it's unlikely.


Richard, you seem to be very angry about the negative test requirement for some reason. I think this is the second time you post about this. Having done the test twice, I can tell you it's not as painful as it looks. Just a little bit of discomfort for a second, but no pain at all.

If you test positive, better to have your holiday "ruined" and quarantine until you heal than to infect who knows how many people during your stay, many of whom would probably be service workers who you can bet wouldn't keep their salary while and if they get hospitalized. At least that's the civilized approach... but alas, many people don't think this way and prefer to be selfish.

Being in Dubai currently, I can tell you that we have tourists indeed. It's summer anyways, so numbers are always low at this period. But hotels are starting to get busier, and hip restaurants/bars are often full (I guess partly due to the government mandating a minimum space between tables, but still). Of course 2020 won't break record high tourism numbers, but it doesn't seem that the test requirements are keeping people from coming.

I think it also makes a lot of them more comfortable knowing that the pandemic is actually handled correctly here and that the infection risk is more limited than elsewhere as a result. So if anything, my guess is that it's actually helping.


----------



## EightFive

RichardLR said:


> If this rule is still in effect we won't come to Dubai as planned in October:
> 
> "You may need to take another COVID-19 PCR test on arrival. If you take a test at the airport, you must remain in your hotel or residence until you receive the test result. If the test result is positive, you will be required to undergo isolation and follow the Dubai Health Authority guidelines. "
> 
> We wanted to go to Istanbul for a few days, then on to Dubai for 10 days, then to Asia, then back to Dubai, then home. This would mean a few compulsory tests (on arrival and departure each time I assume) but also a big risk and lots of stress, because if you happen to test positive (false or real positive)...then your holiday is ruined. Much better to go somewhere else.
> 
> I understand that lots of people have the view that the stricter the better with COVID restrictions (I don't have that view), but Dubai will have less tourists while they have this rule and the economy will not bounce back to previous levels. Keep in mind that very few countries require a negative test result for ALL visitors - even those coming from "safe" countries.
> 
> I personally hope they cancel the negative test requirement soon, but I guess it's unlikely.


Dont be this lady.


----------



## ispcallaghan

Hi guys,
I am in Dubai and I refused to go back in Italy because scared to be blocked. As I said before in other post I have a Real Estate LLC focus in abroad clients and my girlfriend is First Class Cabin Crew Emirates. So I think I can explain perfectly the situation actually.
1) People is NOT flying.. in general.. and it will be like this till end of 2020 for sure.
2)For the Italian government Italians can not come in Dubai for tourism (only for work, business or emergency)
3) Emirates also canceled a lot of flights (well not only emirates)
4)There are few tourists in Dubai but the city is not empty because full of locals (they also not travel and stay here)
5) Real Estate : there are transactions because marketing is more and more aggressive. people from abroad still buy OFF plan. We make ZOOM call with clients in the office of the developer directly to book units.
6) Dubai still is seen as a safe place
Regards,


----------



## Tokodo

For now the financial strength of Dubai and it’s property developers doesn’t look to good, judging from the world media:






Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com













Damac Properties' losses widen to Dh387m in first-half 2020


Dubai developers have struggled through the pandemic-hit period




gulfnews.com







http://tradearabia.com/touch/article/CONS/370166











Dubai's Nakheel in talks to refinance debt: Sources - ET RealEstate


State-owned Nakheel, developer of Dubai's palm-shaped islands, was forced into a massive debt restructuring in the aftermath of the emirate's 2009-2010 real estate crash, when the company was one of the hardest hit.




realty.economictimes.indiatimes.com


----------



## loandxb

Well yeah, obviously. Wouldn't be surprised to see Damac go bust actually. Emaar is too big to fail (will always be bailed out by the gov), but Damac is fragile and in a very bad spot currently.


----------



## Tokodo

loandxb said:


> Well yeah, obviously. Wouldn't be surprised to see Damac go bust actually. Emaar is too big to fail (will always be bailed out by the gov), but Damac is fragile and in a very bad spot currently.


Have Dubai governmental guarantees improved over the last years? Would off-plan buyers at Damac, who already paid instalments, receive their money back? I remember from the last collapse of Dubai during the financial crisis, that many buyers lost vast sums of money or that they were offered lesser properties at inferior projects. Currently the number of partly finished projects that are “On Hold”, seems to be rising. Is there any form of governmental guarantee fund that ensures that these projects will be finished? Or is it just bad luck when another developer goes into bankruptcy?


----------



## ramki007

QQ, my property in PAD is ready to be occupied, banks contacted me for loan approval, whats the current situation in DUBAI, everywhere its dire state, how long will the developer hold the property if you dont take posession, they took 12 yrs to build it.


----------



## ispcallaghan

If someone come now in these discussion seems that alla developer are going bankrupt and that all off plan are scam.
This is not true. There are project delivered in time and with good quality. Stop to write ONLY bad things please.
Recently I have same discussions in one Italians facebook group in UAE. In this group 99% of people speak bad and negative about Dubai but NO ONE want to leave UAE and go back in they country.


----------



## Tokodo

Recently I have same discussions in one Italians facebook group in UAE. In this group 99% of people speak bad and negative about Dubai but NO ONE want to leave UAE and go back in they country.
[/QUOTE]

Just a general thought. Judging from the many bad experiences, scattered throughout the majority of threads on this Dubai property investment forum, one could also come to the careful conclusion that there is in fact an awful lot wrong with the Dubai property industry and that many people lost hard earned money because of the lack of regulation, consumer protection and a surplus of greedy untrustworthy sales agents. Again, it’s just a general thought.


----------



## lilyz

Tokodo said:


> Have Dubai governmental guarantees improved over the last years? Would off-plan buyers at Damac, who already paid instalments, receive their money back? I remember from the last collapse of Dubai during the financial crisis, that many buyers lost vast sums of money or that they were offered lesser properties at inferior projects. Currently the number of partly finished projects that are “On Hold”, seems to be rising. Is there any form of governmental guarantee fund that ensures that these projects will be finished? Or is it just bad luck when another developer goes into bankruptcy?


Alot of off-plan projects have structured payments plans, whereby the money is directly paid into an escrow account... so yes, the investor is protected unless they have paid the developer directly.


----------



## ispcallaghan

Tokodo said:


> Recently I have same discussions in one Italians facebook group in UAE. In this group 99% of people speak bad and negative about Dubai but NO ONE want to leave UAE and go back in they country.


Just a general thought. Judging from the many bad experiences, scattered throughout the majority of threads on this Dubai property investment forum, one could also come to the careful conclusion that there is in fact an awful lot wrong with the Dubai property industry and that many people lost hard earned money because of the lack of regulation, consumer protection and a surplus of greedy untrustworthy sales agents. Again, it’s just a general thought.
[/QUOTE]
Hi Tokodo.. I know a lot of stories of people who lost money in Dubai not only in Real Estate but in general. Why ? Dubai has a great appeal of peoples and also changes people. If you are a tourist you can not understand, if you live here yes. I personally know people who really lost everything here BUT they not want to leave. I call them DUBAI ADDICTED. Maybe for a certain point of view Dubai is similar to Las Vegas. Anyway sorry if I went out of topic, lets come back speaking only of property and investment )))


----------



## loandxb

ispcallaghan said:


> Recently I have same discussions in one Italians facebook group in UAE. In this group 99% of people speak bad and negative about Dubai but NO ONE want to leave UAE and go back in they country.


I find this true about the general negativity towards Dubai, which I find tiresome on this thread. Sometimes I wonder why some people who only write negative and exaggerated things even bother to visit this forum.

However, saying that Damac (or any other developer) is fragile during such a situation and might go bust is *not* hating the Emirate of Dubai in itself. You'll find many articles which have also been posted on this thread, where S&P lowered their ratings for Damac, where colossal losses were reported recently etc. This is just news, that's all it is.

I love the place and wouldn't want to leave for now. There's a lot of good here and the place offers a unique value that you won't find anywhere else, especially during the COVID crisis which has been really well handled here. There are also many developers who still build quality projects. Everyone here will agree that, generally speaking, Emaar does a good job at that (although some projects are lower quality than others of course).

But "liking it here" doesn't mean that you have to close your eyes on what's happening in the local economy. Damac reportedly being in such a bad spot is dangerous for the local RE market, and I don't see how anyone could disagree. Unfortunately, the nature of the situation brings more bad news like this than good news currently. That's just how it is.

I'm rooting for Dubai to come back to where it was, but you also have to be proportionate and accept that things aren't all rainbows and sunshine these days. It's also not doomsday, contrary to what some people here want to portray. Let's stay balanced. This is an investment forum after all.


----------



## farnush

Dubai will come back as its the fundamentals are all good - its a connection hub of the region and will remain so until an alternative can come about. The retirement visa will bring a new community of people to come and live in UAE - these are the middle class rich folks who can invest in buying a place for 2 million.
Next should be the introduction of PR which is the game change in property that everyone has been waiting for.


----------



## Tokodo

farnush said:


> Dubai will come back as its the fundamentals are all good - its a connection hub of the region and will remain so until an alternative can come about. The retirement visa will bring a new community of people to come and live in UAE - these are the middle class rich folks who can invest in buying a place for 2 million.
> Next should be the introduction of PR which is the game change in property that everyone has been waiting for.


The introduction of PR campagnes can be very helpful to improve a negative image, but as with any PR effort there is a limit to how much PR can improve the image of the actual real life situation. Investment in Dubai PR campagnes can’t solve the lack of consumer protection regulation, lack of building quality standards, lack of moral standards at many sales offices, lack of due diligence before building projects are awarded to building contractors who then disappear into the night, creating yet more unfinished projects and idle standing construction cranes.

We have loved every visit we made to Dubai. We even thought very seriously about buying a property there. But once you start the proces of reading other people’s experiences and engaging in contacting developers and real estate agents, you enter a mostly unregulated no mans land, where turning a quick profit seems to prevail instead of building a long lasting relationship with clients.

Dubai laws regarding property development, construction quality control, consumer protection, property sales and property aftersales, need a complete overhaul. When people outside Dubai start telling their family, friends, colleagues and others at meetings, social gatherings and on social media, that Dubai is the safest possible place to invest your savings in properties, a place where a deal is a deal, a place where promises and agreed timeframes are kept, a place where building and regulatory quality is key and where the government guards your rights to the highest international legal standards, then Dubai has the cheapest and best PR campaign it can get. Word of mouth will always beat the biggest army of clever PR executives. Yes, investment in PR can be of enormous use, but can never turn a Skoda into a BMW. No matter how many millions you throw at it. It’s still a Skoda, but now with a shiny paper brochure, exotic commercials and glossy website.


----------



## Tokodo

With apologies to Skoda owners. The brand was only used as a metaphorical illustration.


----------



## DocDubai

Tokodo said:


> The introduction of PR campagnes can be very helpful to improve a negative image, but as with any PR effort there is a limit to how much PR can improve the image of the actual real life situation. Investment in Dubai PR campagnes can’t solve the lack of consumer protection regulation, ...


I believe farnush was referring to PR as 'permanent residency' but your point is taken with regards to improving public relations in the property market


----------



## lilyz

Permanent residency, public relations, press release, papa roach.... Nobody knows, its provocative, it gets the people going.


----------



## Tokodo

There are also some amazing initiatives in Dubai, that create truly great PR. Public Relations that is, not Permanent Residency. It‘s a great project, the first of its kind in the region, which is aimed at establishing Dubai as one of the world’s cities with the best air quality by 2021. It started in 2017 and will be finished next year. Costing a total of Dh500 million.

In a few months time, Dubai residents will be breathing the best air quality through an intricate system of monitoring and new laws, that have been implemented in the last years. It’s exactly one of those initiatives that is badly needed and that the Dubai government should use much more actively in it’s PR strategy.

When the project is finished next year and Dubai has one of the best air quality measurements in the world, it will be great advertising material. CNN shows air pollution maps on its channel multiple times a day. For the last few years it mostly showed air quality to be quite bad in Dubai, but this initiative is a real game changer. It could convince people to buy property in Dubai. Sustainability and excellent air quality are what people look for nowadays when selecting an environmentally safe place to live or reside for their families and children.









Dh500m projects to make Dubai’s air quality the best


Dubai Municipality devises five-year air quality strategy




gulfnews.com


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

"The best air quality in the world" ... in a city next to a desert, where most of the electricity is generated by burning fossil fuel, and most of the transport relies on personal car usage?

Sure, the UAE has initiatives to shift electricity production towards solar and nuclear, but that's not going to be completed by 2021. The only way for the measurements to be the best in the world by then would be through severe manipulation of data.


----------



## loandxb

Yeah, let's face it, the air quality isn't great in Dubai. First of all the frequent sandstorms, then the huge concentration of diesel-powered construction equipment, and most of the electricity (and the desalinated water) being produced by fossil fuel as @Kyll.Ing. mentioned.

But I'm really happy to the Dubai Municipality is taking steps to improve it, although this Gulf News article doesn't seem to talk about anything else than just monitoring. We'll see what comes out of it. Having the best air quality in the world would definitely be a great selling point for Dubai, but I doubt it'll happen "in a few months time" as you said @Tokodo.


----------



## Rustamsalehin

I am curious that what difference is there between (i) a renewable 5-year retirement visa and (ii) permanent residency.
Does not a permanent resident need renewal of the status after the lapse of a certain period?
Then, for the ex-pats in Dubai, what is the difference effectively between the two statuses except for their respective names?
Anybody there, to disagree with me?


----------



## dxbpropinvestor

for whatever reason, prices are actually going up in certain areas...i've now managed to offload a dubai hills villa at OP... earlier this year i was 20% below OP on the same villa. small bidding war on the villa as well which is bonkers


----------



## SillySooty

dxbpropinvestor said:


> for whatever reason, prices are actually going up in certain areas...i've now managed to offload a dubai hills villa at OP... earlier this year i was 20% below OP on the same villa. small bidding war on the villa as well which is bonkers


Ditto, the same with an apartment in Dubai Hills. Receiving calls with cash offers for only 3-5% less than the OP.


----------



## faisalmq

Gents, any updates on seven city jlt? Anybody advised for legal consultation yet? I am distressed and had serious arguments with Yolanda. Her tone is rather threatening saying we are delayed till 2023, This is even pass the remedy period. what shoud my next course of action? Please advise


----------



## lilyz

SillySooty said:


> Ditto, the same with an apartment in Dubai Hills. Receiving calls with cash offers for only 3-5% less than the OP.


Apparently there is an influx of Israeli investors appearing on the market... A market in which they've been excluded from up until now.


----------



## loandxb

lilyz said:


> Apparently there is an influx of Israeli investors appearing on the market... A market in which they've been excluded from up until now.


As early as now? Really? That's surprising. I would think they'd take some time to come given the circumstances, and that they'd do a bit of due diligence before buying anything. But hey, regardless, good to hear the market is doing well!


----------



## lilyz

loandxb said:


> As early as now? Really? That's surprising. I would think they'd take some time to come given the circumstances, and that they'd do a bit of due diligence before buying anything. But hey, regardless, good to hear the market is doing well!


Perhaps they've been waiting a long time for the opportunity to do so.









Israeli investors eyeing real estate business in Dubai - The Frontier Post


Individuals and Israeli institutions are willing to invest in Dubai real estate once the two countries will finalise details to establish diplomatic relations in coming weeks. As the UAE and Israel are holding talks this week to finalise details to set up diplomatic ties following the...




thefrontierpost.com













Azizi Developments’ Creek Views II is selling out rapidly to


Israeli nationals make up 30% of Creek Views’ proud new homeowners, while another 30% are UAE nationals, followed by 20% Saudis. The rest of the unit




azizidevelopments.com


----------



## IR8

Please look at this from Dubai Land Department and price per square meter 92 000 AEDs. That is a quadrupled


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

IR8 said:


> Please look at this from Dubai Land Department and price per square meter 92 000 AEDs. That is a quadrupled


That's the asking price, not necessarily the land value. It's as if you inherited a bunch of old dinner plates from your aunt and tried to sell them for 1€ apiece. And you still only sold three plates. You then ask 10€ apiece for the rest, so you can say "the first plates I sold are now worth ten times more!" in the hopes that somebody out there would be dumb enough to believe they'd be worth 100€ apiece the next day.


----------



## IR8

Kyll.Ing. said:


> That's the asking price, not necessarily the land value. It's as if you inherited a bunch of old dinner plates from your aunt and tried to sell them for 1€ apiece. And you still only sold three plates. You then ask 10€ apiece for the rest, so you can say "the first plates I sold are now worth ten times more!" in the hopes that somebody out there would be dumb enough to believe they'd be worth 100€ apiece the next day.


I believe as you say the market decides in the end. The handover is probably sometimes this year before the Expo. If they realy can make some of the promises they made during the construction, there might be some price appreciation. This is indeed a unique and very expensive project unmatched anywhere on the planet, much harder and more expensive than the Palm as these are real Islands and not a peninsula.
The other issue is the ROI when doing the resale. If the ROI for the resale is not in €, then noone would ever invest in the resale as you might get much higher ROI purchasing from the Company rather than the private investors unless they have sold all the assets already and someone realy is keen on owning something there with very little ROI.


----------



## aginve

Hello guys, I hope you are well. I'm looking to invest in a distressed sale in Downtown (max 1.2/1.3m); since there are many in different buildings which buildings do you suggest?
I'm looking for a net return of 6% (min). I found something in Forte but I'm not really sure about it because I it's very very slow.

Thank you for your time.


----------



## Tokodo

aginve said:


> Hello guys, I hope you are well. I'm looking to invest in a distressed sale in Downtown (max 1.2/1.3m); since there are many in different buildings which buildings do you suggest?
> I'm looking for a net return of 6% (min). I found something in Forte but I'm not really sure about it because I it's very very slow.
> 
> Thank you for your time.


Don’t invest now. Prices are still dropping. The drop is accelerating as well. It’s very bad at the moment. Vast oversupply already. Much more in the pipeline. Many projects stopped. Expats from all sorts of industries left the country. A lot of empty stock isn’t even advertised any more.


----------



## IR8

Tokodo said:


> Don’t invest now. Prices are still dropping. The drop is accelerating as well. It’s very bad at the moment. Vast oversupply already. Much more in the pipeline. Many projects stopped. Expats from all sorts of industries left the country. A lot of empty stock isn’t even advertised any more.


----------



## IR8

I believe the UAE government has the resolve and resources to vaccinate everyone and stay ahead of most of the countries in the World. It will distinguish itself as a safe haven and tourist magnet ahead of Turkey, Spain, France, UK and USA. They will also host Expo 2020. The peace with Israel will grant UAE even more safety and with Biden on board, less hostility from Iran. These will culminate in a tremendous potential for tourist industry and therefore I believe that investment in Hotel apartments or Hotel industry anywhere in Dubai is a damn good way of receiving big returns.
Just a thought.


----------



## Tokodo

IR8 said:


> I believe the UAE government has the resolve and resources to vaccinate everyone and stay ahead of most of the countries in the World. It will distinguish itself as a safe haven and tourist magnet ahead of Turkey, Spain, France, UK and USA. They will also host Expo 2020. The peace with Israel will grant UAE even more safety and with Biden on board, less hostility from Iran. These will culminate in a tremendous potential for tourist industry and therefore I believe that investment in Hotel apartments or Hotel industry anywhere in Dubai is a damn good way of receiving big returns.
> Just a thought.


The Dubai government has so many loans that need to be paid off. Dubai and it’s developers are so over leveraged. They haven’t even paid back the loans from the last collapse. Just endlessly rolling them over. They had to give the Burj Dubai to Abu Dhabi to get money to save Dubai World and it’s entities. Expo 2020 wil be a fiasco, given the fact that people won’t be travelling again in the millions by then. The hotel oversupply was already big and is now even bigger. Nobody who invested in hotel apartments will see any of the forecasted return. Prices will go down much further.


----------



## loandxb

Tokodo said:


> The Dubai government has so many loans that need to be paid off. Dubai and it’s developers are so over leveraged. They haven’t even paid back the loans from the last collapse. Just endlessly rolling them over. They had to give the Burj Dubai to Abu Dhabi to get money to save Dubai World and it’s entities. Expo 2020 wil be a fiasco, given the fact that people won’t be travelling again in the millions by then. The hotel oversupply was already big and is now even bigger. Nobody who invested in hotel apartments will see any of the forecasted return. Prices will go down much further.


If the majority of the population is vaccinated (which it will be, because the UAE wouldn't want to be other than #1), and with vaccination progressing in participating countries too, the cases will drop and Expo 2020 will be one of the first safe world-scale events since the beginning of the pandemic.

It's easy to see things in a cynical way and declare doomsday at the first sign of difficulties, but the truth is that the UAE was one of the only countries able to turn this crisis into an opportunity. I think the government's strategy was exemplary, and it will pay off in the short-medium term with more tourists flocking and expats choosing the country as a place to live (much more attractive than Europe or the US given their handling of the crisis).


----------



## Tokodo

loandxb said:


> If the majority of the population is vaccinated (which it will be, because the UAE wouldn't want to be other than #1), and with vaccination progressing in participating countries too, the cases will drop and Expo 2020 will be one of the first safe world-scale events since the beginning of the pandemic.
> 
> It's easy to see things in a cynical way and declare doomsday at the first sign of difficulties, but the truth is that the UAE was one of the only countries able to turn this crisis into an opportunity. I think the government's strategy was exemplary, and it will pay off in the short-medium term with more tourists flocking and expats choosing the country as a place to live (much more attractive than Europe or the US given their handling of the crisis).


The people of the world haven’t been able to travel for so long. When vaccines start opening the world again, I doubt that Expo 2020 will be top of mind. Current tourism trend research points to entirety different directions. Less consumerism, shopping, theme parks, but more destinations with distancing options such as wild nature in general, paradise sea side resorts with waving palm trees, dreamy natural islands with crystal clear waters, hiking in forests and national parks. Furthermore competition for tourists will be fierce. Exotic destinations might have an edge over Expo 2020.


----------



## IR8

Dubai has during the last 50 years proved to be more than just a city, it will never fail. It is a brand and imagination far byond a normal city. Never forget that..


----------



## Tokodo

IR8 said:


> Dubai has during the last 50 years proved to be more than just a city, it will never fail. It is a brand and imagination far byond a normal city. Never forget that..


Absolutely! But it’s a slightly different world now. And Dubai seems to have overstretched it’s finances once again. So much is unfinished, The World Islands, Palm Jebel Ali, Dubailand, The Universe. The plan in the early 2000’s looked so amazing, but it’s still so far from ready. And contractors are stopping work again due to non payments. Not a good sign.


----------



## loandxb

Tokodo said:


> it’s a slightly different world now


Indeed. People living in Europe and the US are increasingly tired of lockdowns and other restrictions, and a lot of them are realizing that they could escape these by simply living in the UAE. Not only that, but the lack of an income tax here is a big factor in a period where most western countries are expected to raise theirs to cover the huge costs of their COVID stimulus packages.

But obviously, you're entitled to your own opinion, and we'll see soon enough who was right and who was wrong.


----------



## Tokodo

loandxb said:


> Indeed. People living in Europe and the US are increasingly tired of lockdowns and other restrictions, and a lot of them are realizing that they could escape these by simply living in the UAE. Not only that, but the lack of an income tax here is a big factor in a period where most western countries are expected to raise theirs to cover the huge costs of their COVID stimulus packages.
> 
> But obviously, you're entitled to your own opinion, and we'll see soon enough who was right and who was wrong.


But US citizens will be taxed no matter where they live. EU citizens will not be taxed, but the recent tv exposures and newspaper articles in Europe about high costs of living, high school fees, unregulated and often suddenly skyrocketing service charges, lack of world standard building regulations, bad construction quality, lack of governmental regulations for procedures when property buyers are swindled by greedy developers and property agents without morals, bad and unhealthy air quality and rampant prostitution everywhere in hotels and bars, haven’t really had a positive affect on the overall Dubai image. Dubai needs a serious overhaul in laws, regulations and legal protection. The time of “build and they will come” seems behind us.


----------



## loandxb

Tokodo said:


> But US citizens will be taxed no matter where they live. EU citizens will not be taxed, but the recent tv exposures and newspaper articles in Europe about high costs of living, high school fees, unregulated and often suddenly skyrocketing service charges, lack of world standard building regulations, bad construction quality, lack of governmental regulations for procedures when property buyers are swindled by greedy developers and property agents without morals, bad and unhealthy air quality and rampant prostitution everywhere in hotels and bars, haven’t really had a positive affect on the overall Dubai image. Dubai needs a serious overhaul in laws, regulations and legal protection. The time of “build and they will come” seems behind us.


It's almost as if you're doing everything you can to only see the bad news. I imagine you were ripped off around 2008 by a developer that vanished and that left a bad taste in your mouth? The Emirate has changed a lot since then, and I think a trip here might be in order to understand the situation currently. That being said, I'm stopping this discussion which is going nowhere anyways.


----------



## Tokodo

loandxb said:


> It's almost as if you're doing everything you can to only see the bad news. I imagine you were ripped off around 2008 by a developer that vanished and that left a bad taste in your mouth? The Emirate has changed a lot since then, and I think a trip here might be in order to understand the situation currently. That being said, I'm stopping this discussion which is going nowhere anyways.


No, not at all. My wife, my two daughters and I, spend multiple lovely holidays in Dubai in the last 7 years. But we have seen it changing. The prostitution, even in the high end hotels, has become awful. My 16 year old daughter was approached while she was waiting for us in the lobby. Just disgraceful. I am certainly no saint, but in civilised hotels all over the world, these services are handled discretely, you don’t see it. In Dubai the prostitutes are in plain sight all over the lobbies and in huge numbers. The shock is even bigger when you realise that prostitution is illegal under Sharia law! How can the Dubai government not take action?

We even thought about buying a property there in 2019 and contacted some agents and visited offices of the well know developers. I was in shock over the bad building quality in so many locations. From The Palm to Arabian Ranches. After these sales trips with agents, we went back to some of these locations to talk to expats living there. Multiple invited us into their homes to tell us about their experiences. It wasn’t pretty. The list of complaints was endless. When we got back home we were flooded with emails and calls, even up to this day. The agents and developers keep offering lower and lower prices. They seem so desperate to sell. Recently we got a call again from the Kleindienst Group. We had to decide now, because they were raising prices 450%!

My opinion is based on personal experiences and research, combined with what I read about buying property in Dubai in newspapers and tv reports.


----------



## IR8

I believe that Dubai is going to be very selective, depending on where you buy. There are superficial numbers and then there is the real numbers including the off shore investments. Those numbers will never be displayed and there is no reason for it. The reality behind the strength of UAE and specialy Dubai is out of reach for ordinary people. They are far wealthier and stronger than those obvious numbers, without UAE the undisputed financial hub for the middle East, the planet will be in trouble. They are now more important to the global economy than ever. A few countries, you can simply not do without, like US, China, France, UK and UAE as financial hubs. They are the superpowers necessary for economic well being of the world.


----------



## Tokodo

IR8 said:


> I believe that Dubai is going to be very selective, depending on where you buy. There are superficial numbers and then there is the real numbers including the off shore investments. Those numbers will never be displayed and there is no reason for it. The reality behind the strength of UAE and specialy Dubai is out of reach for ordinary people. They are far wealthier and stronger than those obvious numbers, without UAE the undisputed financial hub for the middle East, the planet will be in trouble. They are now more important to the global economy than ever. A few countries, you can simply not do without, like US, China, France, UK and UAE as financial hubs. They are the superpowers necessary for economic well being of the world.


But that makes Dubai almost sound like a dubious haven for money laundering. Combine that with the rampant prostitution and Dubai will lose its appeal as a family destination. Attracting families was one of Dubai’s main goals with the many, but never finished theme parks and other attractions. Again I still believe Dubai needs a total overhaul of regulations. The current offerings in real estate are much to fragmented, not top quality and lack quality maintenance and after sales services. We paid a fairly high rate for two large suites in a prestigious hotel, yet at the same time it was being filled up with cheap Chinese and Russian tour packages. It damages the air of exclusivity that the hotel shows in all its advertising.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

Tokodo said:


> It damages the air of exclusivity that the hotel shows in all its advertising.


The "air of exclusivity" Dubai aims for might also hurt it, paradoxically. "Exclusive" just means "Unavailable to the masses", after all. Dubai seems to have been built on the idea that millionaires would flock to it in droves, to take expensive vacations, shop luxury products, and buy real estate, and that they would _just keep coming in ever-increasing numbers_. But the problem of catering to the 0.1% is, well, they're only a thousandth of the population, and they will only buy so many luxury apartments. After a while, the market will reach saturation and plateau, rather than grow forever. And then the suppliers will be stuck with a lot of unsold stuff that 99.9% of the population can't afford to buy. 

Dubai was built as a "playground for the rich", but there are only so many rich people out there, and they don't need an infinitely big playground. The people who would buy luxury real estate in Dubai have done so already. The demand for new stock isn't rising, it's plummeting. At that point, continuing to increase supply does not appear to be a very sound policy ... until you realize how much of the economy is dependent on ongoing construction work. That's the time to be really worried.


----------



## IR8

Tokodo said:


> But US citizens will be taxed no matter where they live. EU citizens will not be taxed, but the recent tv exposures and newspaper articles in Europe about high costs of living, high school fees, unregulated and often suddenly skyrocketing service charges, lack of world standard building regulations, bad construction quality, lack of governmental regulations for procedures when property buyers are swindled by greedy developers and property agents without morals, bad and unhealthy air quality and rampant prostitution everywhere in hotels and bars, haven’t really had a positive affect on the overall Dubai image. Dubai needs a serious overhaul in laws, regulations and legal protection. The time of “build and they will come” seems behind us.


----------



## isicman

To go back on topic.

Dubai property prices set to decline by up to 8% in 2021 on oversupply





https://www.arabianbusiness.com/real-estate/457465-dubai-property-prices-set-to-decline-by-up-to-8-in-2021-on-oversupply


----------



## Tokodo

aginve said:


> Hello guys, I hope you are well. I'm looking to invest in a distressed sale in Downtown (max 1.2/1.3m); since there are many in different buildings which buildings do you suggest?
> I'm looking for a net return of 6% (min). I found something in Forte but I'm not really sure about it because I it's very very slow.
> 
> Thank you for your time.


Bloomberg did a good piece on the current situation yesterday:









Dubai’s Property Glut Could Mean Two More Years of Price Drop


Dubai home prices will likely extend declines this year and next as the market works to clear an oversupply that’s been a drag on values since 2014, according to property broker JLL.




www.bloomberg.com


----------



## Dubai Skyscraper

Guys, please keep this thread free of political content and country vs. country discussions. Thanks.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

Tokodo said:


> Bloomberg did a good piece on the current situation yesterday:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dubai’s Property Glut Could Mean Two More Years of Price Drop
> 
> 
> Dubai home prices will likely extend declines this year and next as the market works to clear an oversupply that’s been a drag on values since 2014, according to property broker JLL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


This part really stood out to me: 



> “There is a lot of supply in the pipeline, but that’s likely to be phased out,” Salbak said. “*We’re seeing materialization rates around 40%*, so a lot of projects are being put on hold and being delayed.”


Three of every five proposed projects end up going nowhere? Wow.


----------



## Tokodo

I think this a good example of the way that the Dubai government keeps making these big promises, but doesn’t deliver. It launches mostly PR driven initiatives that get attention all over the world and then the real action never takes place or in a severely toned down manner. In 2017, Dubai was all over the news worldwide with this, creating great PR:









Dh500m projects to make Dubai’s air quality the best


Dubai Municipality devises five-year air quality strategy




gulfnews.com





The air quality is still terrible in 2021, nothing really has been done about it. The only reason that readings were slightly better in 2020, is the collapse of road traffic, air travel and tourism due to COVID-19.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

Tokodo said:


> I think this a good example of the way that the Dubai government keeps making these big promises, but doesn’t deliver. It launches mostly PR driven initiatives that get attention all over the world and then the real action never takes place or in a severely toned down manner. In 2017, Dubai was all over the news worldwide with this, creating great PR:


For me, the most prominent example (although not in Dubai, but still UAE so it's on topic) is Masdar City. Remember all those fancy renders from a decade ago? It was touted to be the city of the future, home to 50,000 people and 60,000 workers commuting to the site every day. It was to cover six square kilometers, taking eight years to build, with the first phase of 1 sq. km scheduled for completion in 2009. Ten years later, only 0.3 sq. km had been built up, the area has only 300 residents (all students) and employs fewer than 2000 people. The relevant thread in these forums has seen seven posts since 2015.

Yet if you google Masdar City, those fancy renders and news stories from 2006 are still being floated around. People are still speaking of Masdar City as this new, brilliant city of the future that will have tens of thousands of eco-friendly residences any day now. Pretty much nothing has happened on the ground for years, but the story is still told. "Completion scheduled for 2020-2025", they say, while one mall and nine low-rise residential blocks have been added since 2016. Drawings and plans for self-driving buses, greenery, water reclamation and all that still float around as if it's all scheduled to open tomorrow, but most of the site is as empty as the day they started. It's a lot of talk and very little action. Something similar is seen all over Dubai too. Lots of grand plans, but only a tenth of it is ever constructed.

The strange bit, though, is that what's constructed is actually still quite impressive. It's just that they, for some reason, tend to always promise ten times more than what is delivered.


----------



## PersonOfInterest

IR8 said:


> Dubai has during the last 50 years proved to be more than just a city, it will never fail. It is a brand and imagination far byond a normal city. Never forget that..


History is littered with the ruins of those with such hubris



loandxb said:


> Indeed. People living in Europe and the US are increasingly tired of lockdowns and other restrictions, and a lot of them are realizing that they could escape these by simply living in the UAE. Not only that, but the lack of an income tax here is a big factor in a period where most western countries are expected to raise theirs to cover the huge costs of their COVID stimulus packages.
> 
> But obviously, you're entitled to your own opinion, and we'll see soon enough who was right and who was wrong.


99.99% of the people in the us have never even heard of dubai. Its only a place for the idle rich, and those that service them. No one middle class could be happy there.



Kyll.Ing. said:


> For me, the most prominent example (although not in Dubai, but still UAE so it's on topic) is Masdar City. Remember all those fancy renders from a decade ago? It was touted to be the city of the future, home to 50,000 people and 60,000 workers commuting to the site every day. It was to cover six square kilometers, taking eight years to build, with the first phase of 1 sq. km scheduled for completion in 2009. Ten years later, only 0.3 sq. km had been built up, the area has only 300 residents (all students) and employs fewer than 2000 people. The relevant thread in these forums has seen seven posts since 2015.
> 
> Yet if you google Masdar City, those fancy renders and news stories from 2006 are still being floated around. People are still speaking of Masdar City as this new, brilliant city of the future that will have tens of thousands of eco-friendly residences any day now. Pretty much nothing has happened on the ground for years, but the story is still told. "Completion scheduled for 2020-2025", they say, while one mall and nine low-rise residential blocks have been added since 2016. Drawings and plans for self-driving buses, greenery, water reclamation and all that still float around as if it's all scheduled to open tomorrow, but most of the site is as empty as the day they started. It's a lot of talk and very little action. Something similar is seen all over Dubai too. Lots of grand plans, but only a tenth of it is ever constructed.
> 
> The strange bit, though, is that what's constructed is actually still quite impressive. It's just that they, for some reason, tend to always promise ten times more than what is delivered.


Its like startup culture for real estate. Talk big, get the investors in, then bail. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## noir-dresses

CDC just put UAE on level 4 high risk, high spread of covid-19 due to trying to open up to soon, and not regulating spreed of virus properly. This will not help the push of tourism very well.









COVID-19 and Travel


CDC travel recommendations during the COVID-19 pandemic.




wwwnc.cdc.gov





On another note the whole world is effected economically because of Covid so let's not single out UAE.

For people wanting to still invest the trend lately is property with wide open spaces such as houses/villas with back yards surrounded with parks, sea/ocean and nature.

Owners of property are avoiding or getting out of high rise complexes which they share with hundreds of other tenants, or neighbors.

Even in Europe and North America we're seeing a change in tourism where densely populated hotels are avoided same as cruise ships.

What's in are comfortable villa/house rentals that are spread out with surrounding nature. Yachting is still popular because it occurs in nature and people are spread out, and camping grounds outside in nature are still very functional.

This could very well be a temporary lifestyle due to Covid and the new Reset, or who knows it just might turn out to be the norm, time will tell.

I would also like to mention commercial and retail investments are also being effected. Most office spaces are empty because people are working from home. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot companies after Covid decide they don't need office space, or down size because their work functioned properly with people working from home. Time will also show which permanent direction this will take.

I can also see airlines having difficulty selling tickets to business travelers because they have also realized work with clients over the internet can also be achieved not needing, or having to travel.


----------



## loandxb

For once, I agree with you @noir-dresses. Villas in prime areas have actually risen in value during the past months, and I would expect this trend to continue, while small apartments (especially in cheapo buildings) will keep dropping. People are tired of everything and just want their own space nowadays.


----------



## lilyz

> Dubai: Keep paying those instalments… or you are at clear risk of forfeiting all rights to the property you bought.











Dubai offplan property buyers find missing installments come at a steep price


Even paying Dh1m or more is no guarantee for buyers with missed payments




gulfnews.com





Funny that developers can demand installments, but when handovers are delayed by a number of years, they face no repercussions...

Welcome to investing in UAE off-plan property.


----------



## Tokodo

lilyz said:


> Dubai offplan property buyers find missing installments come at a steep price
> 
> 
> Even paying Dh1m or more is no guarantee for buyers with missed payments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gulfnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny that developers can demands installments, but when handovers are delayed by a number of years, they face no repercussions...
> 
> Welcome to investing in UAE off-plan property.



Yet Dubai is launching PR campaign after PR campaign on BBC, CNN and other networks. The introduction of PR campagnes can be very helpful to improve a negative image, but as with any PR effort there is a limit to how much PR can improve the image of the actual real life situation. Investment in Dubai PR campagnes can’t solve the lack of consumer protection regulation, lack of building quality standards, lack of moral standards at many sales offices, lack of due diligence before building projects are awarded to building contractors who then disappear into the night, creating yet more unfinished projects and idle standing construction cranes.

We have loved every visit we made to Dubai. We even thought very seriously about buying a property there. But once you start the proces of reading other people’s experiences and engaging in contacting developers and real estate agents, you enter a mostly unregulated no mans land, where turning a quick profit seems to prevail instead of building a long lasting relationship with clients.

We visited multiple properties for sale on Palm Jumeirah and noticed the problems in the areas with the highest density. Cracks in driveways, walls, floors and ceilings. Leaks in swimming pools and plumbing issues due to cracked connections in underground pipes. Even the intensive vibro compaction hadn’t been able to tackle the problem. In some of the cases, the owners took legal action against Nakheel and after a lot of hassle, repairs were carried out, but those turned out to be more cosmetic touching up than structural improvements and are still clearly visible for the trained eye.

A British lady who later sought media attention in Europe for what had happened to the property she bought off plan on Palm Jumeirah, demonstrated it all in the best and easiest way possible. On BBC News back then, she explained that she bought a freestanding villa with a lush garden and ample space surrounding her dream property. The reality now was, that she and her neighbour could open their kitchen windows and pass an egg, not even throwing it, without having to leave their house

Dubai laws regarding property development, construction quality control, consumer protection, property sales and property aftersales, need a complete overhaul. When people outside Dubai start telling their family, friends, colleagues and others at meetings, social gatherings and on social media, that Dubai is the safest possible place to invest your savings in properties, a place where a deal is a deal, a place where promises and agreed timeframes are kept, a place where building and regulatory quality is key and where the government guards your rights to the highest international legal standards, then Dubai has the cheapest and best PR campaign it can get. Word of mouth will always beat the biggest army of clever PR executives. Yes, investment in PR can be of enormous use, but can never turn a Skoda into a BMW. No matter how many millions you throw at it. It’s still a Skoda, but now with a shiny paper brochure, exotic commercials and glossy website.


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## Kyll.Ing.

IR8 said:


> I hope the moderator does not continue censorship against negative PR to his own home country.


If your posts are deleted, it's because you're breaking forum etiquette by double- and triple-posting when making one post would be enough. Why put the quoted text in a post of its own, for instance? As you can see on this page, literally nobody else does this. You quote text, write your own words below it, and if you make a mistake, *use the Edit function *instead of making a new post below. One post, not three in a row.


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## Dubai Skyscraper

Kyll.Ing. said:


> If your posts are deleted, it's because you're breaking forum etiquette by double- and triple-posting when making one post would be enough. Why put the quoted text in a post of its own, for instance? As you can see on this page, literally nobody else does this. You quote text, write your own words below it, and if you make a mistake, *use the Edit function *instead of making a new post below. One post, not three in a row.


That is one issue with the content he is posting, but not the reason why I deleted his posts. The reason for that is him constantly ranting about the UK, which is neither on topic nor acceptable in general.


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## noir-dresses

Is Dubai’s party over? Record Covid cases, countries raising barriers spark fears of a new lockdown


Dubai relies heavily on tourism and has resisted another lockdown since reopening for business and tourism last summer.




www.cnbc.com





Is Dubai really that bad after opening up to early, you guys know best down there? 

Like I was saying property with wide open spaces and surrounding nature is in. Even if your stuck in a high rise building during a Lockdown having a balcony makes life just a bit better than not having a balcony. 

If this pandemic continues to stick around and can't be contained for multiple years these are some of the advantages if you ask me Dubai has, 

- Dubai has a very high yearly sunshine day count which gives it's citizens natural vitamin D3 to boost their immune system. 

- Dabai also has space unlike Monaco, Singapore or Hong Kong which are constrained and land locked. This gives Dubai freedom to build communities with wide open spaces, and Dubai is also experienced bringing in the sea to create water front properties. Add some parks and natural vegetation and bingo.


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## loandxb

noir-dresses said:


> Is Dubai’s party over? Record Covid cases, countries raising barriers spark fears of a new lockdown
> 
> 
> Dubai relies heavily on tourism and has resisted another lockdown since reopening for business and tourism last summer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Dubai really that bad after opening up to early, you guys know best down there?
> 
> Like I was saying property with wide open spaces and surrounding nature is in. Even if your stuck in a high rise building during a Lockdown having a balcony makes life just a bit better than not having a balcony.
> 
> If this pandemic continues to stick around and can't be contained for multiple years these are some of the advantages if you ask me Dubai has,
> 
> - Dubai has a very high yearly sunshine day count which gives it's citizens natural vitamin D3 to boost their immune system.
> 
> - Dabai also has space unlike Monaco, Singapore or Hong Kong which are constrained and land locked. This gives Dubai freedom to build communities with wide open spaces, and Dubai is also experienced bringing in the sea to create water front properties. Add some parks and natural vegetation and bingo.


Cases are jumping because Dubai is one of the only tourist destinations right now, and people are having huge parties with no masks or any precautions at all. Can't fault them for wanting to "let go" after escaping lockdowns in Europe, but at the same time we can't ignore that this is what's causing the spike.

I agree with both of your last points. Also keep in mind — the vaccine roll-out is currently the world's fastest with Israel. 27% of the population has received a dose of the vaccine (Chinese or American, we have both, and the Russian one will be available soon too).

I believe we'll start to see some results very soon in the form of case numbers dropping, putting Dubai on the map as a safe destination. Just a matter of two months. Let's wait and see.


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## Kyll.Ing.

loandxb said:


> I believe we'll start to see some results very soon in the form of case numbers dropping, putting Dubai on the map as a safe destination. Just a matter of two months. Let's wait and see.


But if unvaccinated people arrive to party with other, unvaccinated people, will it make any difference whatsoever that the locals are vaccinated? The tourists are not there to shake hands with the construction workers or shopkeepers, but rather to shake hips with other people who fled the quarantine enforced in their respective countries for a very good reason.


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## noir-dresses

The reason I asked if it's really that bad because the media all over the world seems to be making a horrible spectacle over this more than it really is. Honestly I think the economic consequences far out weigh the health casualties. 

Last summer Croatia did basically the same thing as Dubai, it opened up completely with the most liberal pandemic rules in all of Europe including the Mediterranean while Italy, Spain, Greece, France still had stricter measures. It was kind of weird after March, April and part of May being in lockdowns then all of a sudden all hell broke lose, practically the whole coast except Dubrovnik was flocked with tourists with last minute travel arrangements . You could tell from talking to tourists they had enough of lockdowns and just wanted to live like normal human beings under the warm sun and enjoy the beaches. It was a calculated risk the government took to let businesses get back on their feet again which brought in around 11 million tourists or 50 percent of what summer 2019 had achieved. Just enough so businesses survive until September then obviously Europe started to get a spike in Covid numbers again. We also realized the biggest spreaders were actually weddings were hundreds of people would mingle, hug, kiss and so on and so on. Larger hotels with plenty of rooms were still dead, but all other accommodations flourished. 

Another interesting phenomenon happened in the real estate sector. More or less villas with open spaces sold like hot cakes, that's the in thing right now and we can't make enough of them because citizens from the EU want them badly. Obviously prices also rose significantly. EU citizens are just not looking for coastal villas, but also villas with swimming pools inland up 10 to 20 km from the coast in nature with some still having sea views. 

All in all we have to think positively, and let's hope the future brings life back to normal soon.


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## loandxb

Kyll.Ing. said:


> But if unvaccinated people arrive to party with other, unvaccinated people, will it make any difference whatsoever that the locals are vaccinated? The tourists are not there to shake hands with the construction workers or shopkeepers, but rather to shake hips with other people who fled the quarantine enforced in their respective countries for a very good reason.


Not a doctor, but from my understanding, most tourists would stay here for shorter than the incubation period anyways. For those who caught the virus here, most would probably start to see symptoms when they'll be back in their home country (probably quarantining, depending on local rules). If that happens, they will be counted as cases in their home countries and not in the UAE.

In the odd case where tourists test positive in the UAE, they'd only be able to seriously infect other tourists who haven't been vaccinated back home, or the minority of residents/nationals who won't be vaccinated. It still greatly reduces the chance of serious cases rising in the population and hence will keep the numbers reasonable.

Obviously I could be very wrong here, but to me there's only upsides in rolling out a large-scale vaccination campaign like the government is doing.


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## Kyll.Ing.

loandxb said:


> In the odd case where tourists test positive in the UAE, they'd only be able to seriously infect other tourists who haven't been vaccinated back home, or the minority of residents/nationals who won't be vaccinated. It still greatly reduces the chance of serious cases rising in the population and hence will keep the numbers reasonable.


Yeah, but other countries would then be quick to label the UAE a contamination hotspot and make measures regardless. Even if UAE's own numbers are low, the prospect of tourists from all over the world mingling and infecting each other would not put the country in a positive light.


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## loandxb

Kyll.Ing. said:


> Yeah, but other countries would then be quick to label the UAE a contamination hotspot and make measures regardless. Even if UAE's own numbers are low, the prospect of tourists from all over the world mingling and infecting each other would not put the country in a positive light.


Right, but that would only highlight the failure of these other countries in vaccinating their own populations.

In a couple of months, it will only be a matter of personal decisions anyways. Want to travel and get vaccinated? Great, enjoy roaming around safely. Want to travel and still opposed to being vaccinated? Then don't complain when you catch COVID.


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## Kyll.Ing.

loandxb said:


> Right, but that would only highlight the failure of these other countries in vaccinating their own populations.
> 
> In a couple of months, it will only be a matter of personal decisions anyways. Want to travel and get vaccinated? Great, enjoy roaming around safely. Want to travel and still opposed to being vaccinated? Then don't complain when you catch COVID.


The availability of vaccines worldwide is still limited, and will be for several more months. The problem is rather the ones that are not vaccinated, travel anyway, get infected abroad, then go home to infect others because the type of people who'd travel without a vaccine tends to overlap heavily with the type of people who don't care about quarantines. As a result, travel restrictions are likely to be tight for a good while longer, preventing the potential infectors from travelling to protect the population at large.


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## loandxb

I guess time will tell! I remain optimistic for Dubai and the UAE's economy compared to the majority of countries out there.


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## PersonOfInterest

I think the complete opposite.


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## Tokodo

PersonOfInterest said:


> I think the complete opposite.


Currently it seems Dubai has opened its doors to tourists much too soon and uncontrolled. It’s currently raining flight bans again and enforced quarantine measures upon return from Dubai in many countries. A vast rise in daily infections in Dubai seems to point to a serious problem. For now Dubai as a holiday destination is over again.


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## isicman

If agents say it, that must be true. 


Industry experts said that it is the right time to invest in the property market while tenants should also be ready to pay more towards the end of the year. 








Worst is over for Dubai real estate market


Dubai real estate sector looks set to stage a smart recovery this year due to speedy economic recovery, spending on infrastructure development, growth in t..



m.khaleejtimes.com


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## isicman

*CEO at UAE's construction giant Arabtec makes an exit*
Wail Farsakh had been in the saddle for a year and was part of some tough decisions

Dubai: The UAE's biggest construction company, Arabtec, has let go of its CEO - Wail Farsakh. The company is currently in the liquidation process and changes at the top was something that the marketplace was talking about.
Farsakh had been in the saddle for the last year and had come in at a time when the company was still trying to arrest its slide into bankruptcy. There was a phase when it was felt that Arabtec would find strategic investors - and the money - to survive.
The liquidation when complete would represent the biggest such in UAE's corporate history. It will also be the biggest since the amended Bankruptcy Law came into effect.










CEO at UAE's construction giant Arabtec makes an exit


Wail Farsakh had been in the saddle for a year and was part of some tough decisions




gulfnews.com


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## Tokodo

IR8 said:


> I believe the UAE government has the resolve and resources to vaccinate everyone and stay ahead of most of the countries in the World. It will distinguish itself as a safe haven and tourist magnet ahead of Turkey, Spain, France, UK and USA. They will also host Expo 2020. The peace with Israel will grant UAE even more safety and with Biden on board, less hostility from Iran. These will culminate in a tremendous potential for tourist industry and therefore I believe that investment in Hotel apartments or Hotel industry anywhere in Dubai is a damn good way of receiving big returns.
> Just a thought.


Three weeks later and Dubai breaks it’s own previous record for COVID-19 infections. Infections have risen 400% since November. This desperate need to stay open for tourists is now coming back to haunt the nation.


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## loandxb

Tokodo said:


> Three weeks later and Dubai breaks it’s own previous record for COVID-19 infections. Infections have risen 400% since November. This desperate need to stay open for tourists is now coming back to haunt the nation.


Guess what record the UAE is also breaking: 44.63% of the population has received a vaccine shot as of yesterday. Highest number of doses administered per 100 inhabitants worldwide. There's always two sides to a story.


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## Dubai Skyscraper

Guys, please keep this thread on topic. I've deleted two posts about UK regulations and other unrelated stuff.


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## UAE Investor

I see in 2020 there where 14,356 off plan properties..But Developers are at it again as they deliver poor quality/size.s ...just look at Damac for example they are now delivering there villa/ town houses in oxygen golf community ...sizes are a joke how can anyone expect to live in a villa the size of the smallest 1 bed aprt in Dubai !Absolute joke! Its as if Damac think ,as they crowd the Shopping Malls with there commission only agents just ready to pounce on unsuspecting tourists who believe there spiel ?


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## PersonOfInterest

Sounds like how timeshares are sold in mexico.


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## Tokodo

PersonOfInterest said:


> Sounds like how timeshares are sold in mexico.


The world media now talk a lot about a new project that offers unparalleled security and guaranteed world standard construction quality. The developers promise building quality standards as high as the ones used for prisons. The project is named The Princess Latifa Villa’s. It’s a joint venture between Dubai and India. They claim that once you enter your villa, you will never leave again.


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## Kyll.Ing.

Tokodo said:


> I have heard about a new real estate project that promises unparalleled designs and guaranteed world standard construction quality. So things might be improving. The developers promise building quality standards as high as the ones used for prisons. The project is named The Princess Latifa Villa’s. It’s a joint venture between Dubai and India based consultants. They claim that once you enter your villa, you will never want to leave again.


Promises are dirt cheap. Claims are literally free. Construction is expensive. Let's see what really ends up being built.


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## PersonOfInterest

Kyll.Ing. said:


> Promises are dirt cheap. Claims are literally free. Construction is expensive. Let's see what really ends up being built.


Hes making a joke.



> *The daughter of Dubai's ruler who tried to flee the country in 2018 later sent secret video messages to friends accusing her father of holding her "hostage" as she feared for her life.*
> In footage shared with BBC Panorama, Princess Latifa Al Maktoum says commandos drugged her as she fled by boat and flew her back to detention.
> The secret messages have stopped - and friends are urging the UN to step in.
> Dubai and the UAE have previously said she is safe in the care of family.
> Ex-UN rights envoy Mary Robinson, who had described Latifa as a "troubled young woman" after meeting her in 2018, now says she was "horribly tricked" by the princess's family.
> The former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and president of Ireland has joined calls for international action to establish Latifa's current condition and whereabouts.
> 
> "I continue to be very worried about Latifa. Things have moved on. And so I think it should be investigated," she said.











Princess Latifa: 'Hostage' ordeal of Dubai ruler's daughter revealed


"I just want to be free," Princess Latifa, daughter of Dubai's ruler, says in video messages secretly recorded from a villa where she was being held following her failed escape in 2018.



www.bbc.com


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## Safrica

hi everyone 
hope u all great 

i have a studio hotel unit at address dubai mall
and we have been getting very low returns 

i am considering giving it to a airbnb management company 

any advise if this makes sense
also can anyone suggest a reputable company 

take care


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## Rustamsalehin

The reason for low or no return is *low demand/occupancy*. Therefore, all the owners/investors of the suites in the hotel suffered in the first half of the year 2020.
For the second half, the hotel operators have not announced results as of yet, as I understand.
Airbnb management companies are also operating in the same business environment of low occupancy.
As Airbnb management companies report the result on monthly basis, it will be interesting to know their performance in the year 2020 and in January 2021, if someone has such data switching can be done if their performance is better and the SPA/suite management agreement of the hotel allows the withdrawal from the rental pool. In that case, even otherwise, suggestions for good performing Airbnb management companies can be of help.


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## Rider

Will the expo make much of a difference to the market prices of already completed units next year or is it more aimed at off-plan? I am holding a studio at JLT which has gone down in value substantially since I bought it and I am wondering if I should hold and wait until next year before selling (in the hope that things pick up after the expo) or should I just bit the bullet and sell this year if values are unlikely to pick up in the near future. Thanks


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## Tokodo

Rider said:


> Will the expo make much of a difference to the market prices of already completed units next year or is it more aimed at off-plan? I am holding a studio at JLT which has gone down in value substantially since I bought it and I am wondering if I should hold and wait until next year before selling (in the hope that things pick up after the expo) or should I just bit the bullet and sell this year if values are unlikely to pick up in the near future. Thanks


Expo 2021 will fail to attract the initially projected visitor numbers of 25 million. The people of the world haven’t been able to travel for so long. When vaccines start opening the world again, which will still take quite some time, I doubt that Expo 2021 will be top of mind. Current tourism trend research points to entirety different directions. Less consumerism, shopping, theme parks, but more destinations with distancing options such as wild nature in general, paradise sea side resorts with waving palm trees, dreamy natural islands with crystal clear waters, hiking in forests and national parks. Furthermore competition for tourists will be fierce. Exotic and nature destinations will have an edge over Expo 2021.

Property prices are still dropping in Dubai. The drop is accelerating as well. It’s very bad at the moment. Vast oversupply already. Much more in the pipeline. Many projects halted. Expats from all sorts of industries left the country. A lot of empty stock isn’t even advertised any more.


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## Losh100

Rider said:


> Will the expo make much of a difference to the market prices of already completed units next year or is it more aimed at off-plan? I am holding a studio at JLT which has gone down in value substantially since I bought it and I am wondering if I should hold and wait until next year before selling (in the hope that things pick up after the expo) or should I just bit the bullet and sell this year if values are unlikely to pick up in the near future. Thanks


From investing point of view, If you have an alternative investment channel with better reward/risk ratio, then go ahead. If you are just selling to keep cash, then I guess this is the wrong move. Don't take advice from unknowns on this forum on ((particular place or country)), some will reflect his/her own emotional irrational experience. 

What I'm sure about is that the real estate situation now is better than it was in March-July 2020, you can simply see the trends in sold units by "individuals", and also, the major developers keep increasing the prices every year, they never ever give discounts. I guess, surprisingly, the effect of Corona will be good for real estate in Dubai, because the developers will understand they should stop initiate new projects, enough is enough for now. Stopping adding new units to the market stabilizes the market and then moves it upward.

For the Expo, anyone heard about it will go for it, as simple as that, unless the ones are already retired from life not only job and not curious about the future. The Expo theme already about sustainability and the future. Going to the nature and rural places, will be really good idea to set there for a week, but no one will spend four months looking at the river, or hiking mountains.


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## Tokodo

Rider said:


> Will the expo make much of a difference to the market prices of already completed units next year or is it more aimed at off-plan? I am holding a studio at JLT which has gone down in value substantially since I bought it and I am wondering if I should hold and wait until next year before selling (in the hope that things pick up after the expo) or should I just bit the bullet and sell this year if values are unlikely to pick up in the near future. Thanks


Some recent articles about the Dubai property market:









Dubai property market stability still a few years off


BENGALURU: The downward spiral in Dubai house prices will continue this year, albeit at a slower pace than in 2019, with oversupply remaining the biggest risk, a Reuters poll showed. Dubai is one of the seven emirates of the UAE and has a diversified trade and tourism economy, but its real...




www.arabnews.com













Dubai off-plan property deals under threat as prices drop


LONDON: Higher interest rates and falling property prices could hit Dubai developers’ transaction volumes linked to the purchase of properties off-plan, warn experts. Craig Plumb, head of research at property advisory firm JLL in Dubai, said rising interest rates were undoubtedly a negative for...




www.arabnews.com













Builders bruised by Dubai's real estate market woes - ET RealEstate


Dubai Real Estate Market: Known for its glittering skyscrapers and luxury villas, the Dubai property market is oversupplied, especially in the residential sector where prices have fallen steadily from a peak in mid-2014.




realty.economictimes.indiatimes.com


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## Tokodo

ramki007 said:


> Guys Need opinion, cant make up my mind
> Bought 1bd room in PAD( Business Bay, Omniyat) back in 2007 for 1.9 mil AED, paid 1million upfront, after 15yrs they have completed the project and asking me to pay the rest and take possession
> right now its worth 1.2mil at the max, what would you guys do if you are in my shoes, they might throw in another 10-20% discount.
> Thanks


Push for another discount. There are too many owners of apartments in The Pad that are offering one bedroom units for just under one million. According to some here, there was an annual 5% mandatory interest payment in the original contracts by Omniyat if apartments weren’t delivered on time. Of course that stipulation was never honoured. This project is 13 years behind schedule. So that alone should make for a hefty discount. Given the vast oversupply of similar units in the area and therefore limited rent out options, the developer should cough up something for this endlessly delayed project.


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## lilyz

Found this quite informative, its the legal steps required in order to obtain a refund for any delayed/incomplete projects.









How to terminate a SPA and claim refund? | How to terminate a SPA and claim refund? #SalesAndPurchaseAgreement #SPA #SPATerminate #RealEstate #Developer #Dubai #UAE | By Suits Legal | Facebook


404 views, 9 likes, 0 loves, 2 comments, 3 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Suits Legal: How to terminate a SPA and claim refund? #SalesAndPurchaseAgreement #SPA #SPATerminate #RealEstate...




fb.watch


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## Rustamsalehin

ramki007 said:


> Guys Need opinion, cant make up my mind
> Bought 1bd room in PAD( Business Bay, Omniyat) back in 2007 for 1.9 mil AED, paid 1million upfront, after 15yrs they have completed the project and asking me to pay the rest and take possession
> right now its worth 1.2mil at the max, what would you guys do if you are in my shoes, they might throw in another 10-20% discount.
> Thanks


I understand that developer will not provide any discount, except the interest provision in SPA can be enforced.
If my understanding is correct, in the circumstances you have the following two alternative options:
*Option 1* - If you pay 0.9 million, they hand you over 1.2 million worth of property.
*Option 2* – If you decide to abandon it, I understand that you get a nill amount.
Workout to Improve upon the cost information of the two stated options by getting the missing information so that you can compare the two precisely and go for the better one..


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## Rustamsalehin

today, a friend of mine was at the DLD office where residency for property investment is processed. He found there a lot of people from Russia and even from Ukraine making applications for residency.
Accordingly, we may anticipate an increase in demand of properties here


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## Rustamsalehin

*As rouble plunges, wealthy Russians could boost Dubai property – S&P*
Dubai remains a welcoming place for Russian citizens and HNWIs, which could boost demand, the ratings agency said.
As rouble plunges, wealthy Russians could boost Dubai property – S&P (zawya.com)


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## Rustamsalehin

_Reasons why investor interest is increasing in “safe-haven” real estate_
The market now offers liquidity, an inflation hedged income flow and safety in one of the world’s preeminent hard currency business hubs. This is a compelling argument for investors both in UAE and abroad.

Reasons why investor interest is increasing in “safe-haven” real estate - Arabian Business


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## Rustamsalehin

*UAE is witnessing a massive influx of investors as the best country for entrepreneurs*
Scott Cairns, the managing director of Middle East-based Creation Business Consultants, shares his reactions to the Global Entrepreneurship Monitor’s ranking of the UAE as the top nation in the world for startups and entrepreneurs
UAE is witnessing a massive influx of investors as the best country for entrepreneurs (arabianbusiness.com)


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## Rustamsalehin

*Dubai’s luxury residences sold out amid demand increase*
Luxury residences in Dubai sold out as demand for property reaches an all-time high (constructionweekonline.com)


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## Losh100

Hi guys,

As i promised in 2020, I said I will come back to this thread in 2022-2024, 
Dubai never disappoint, the market talks about itself, the real estate market recovered so fast. After the successful Expo and the new Dubai Visa rules announced, the best yet to come.


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## gaston5

Losh100 said:


> Dubai never disappoint, the market talks about itself, the real estate market recovered so fast. After the successful Expo and the new Dubai Visa rules announced, the best yet to come.


Dubai average housing price are considered undervalued not just as compared to other global cities, but also as compared to its historical prices. With the exception of the niche of ultra-luxury property prices that were highly simulated post covid, 2022 prices stand more or less at 2014 price point. Unlike the US housing market that went more than double since 2009 global crisis according to FRED Economic Date.

*Dubai property (AED) price change per sqft in 1st Quarter over years:*


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## generalmastii

This is a growth period for Dubai RE and personal property investments and surprised to note no thread posts for the last 5 months.
Noise about the looming global recession is heard across tables but hopefully, Dubai gained strength/positives (post-Covid) will be of certain help in dealing with global impacts better than previous downturns.


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## grapemint

generalmastii said:


> This is a growth period for Dubai RE and personal property investments and surprised to note no thread posts for the last 5 months.
> Noise about the looming global recession is heard across tables but hopefully, Dubai gained strength/positives (post-Covid) will be of certain help in dealing with global impacts better than previous downturns.


Everyone is busy buying or selling, no time to post I guess  The thing with Dubai is that it runs in certain cycles. There is always a new influx of residents who will find it affordable and those leaving after several years as they no longer see being in this place sustainable. It always depends on what do you compare to. There is a recent post on Reddit Dubai where someone posted UBS global real estate bubble index and Dubai is on 24th place as a "fair value" market. Having lived here for more than 8 years, I have personally witnessed a decrease in prices every single year until Covid came where market have faced a further sharp decrease. However in the last 2 years property prices, especially villas with pool, have seen a sharp almost 100% increase. Whether this is rational "fair value" as the rating says or irrational is yet to be seen, however I have not witnessed such prices even 8 years ago. Not to mention that from EUR perspective investor, this may not be particularly a hot time given how strong the USD is.


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## cguria

https://gulfnews.com/business/anal...ay-of-delivering-consistently-1.1666084194356


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## TheEnt

…..


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## generalmastii

https://www.hoteliermiddleeast.com/news/uae-casinos-confirmed-wynn-marjan










Wynn resorts to open Gulf Arab's first casino at Ras Al Khaimah resort


Hotel and casino operator Wynn Resorts will open a casino at the luxury resort it is building in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Chief Executive Craig Scott Billings said, a first for the Gulf Arab region, where gambling has long been off-limits.




www.reuters.com





The introduction of Casino's will change the total game plan, structure of growth for this part the region on positive side.
It will be significant but not easy to gauge the metrics for other Emirates and Dubai.


----------

